#edubuntu 2006-06-12
<pygi> hey hey people
<LaserJock> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey hey LaserJock, whats up? ;)
<LaserJock> oh, just working
<pygi> ah :)
<felipe__> Hello, It seems that my dhcp3-server is not starting with the OS. I've tried to restart it, and it fails....(I'm running edubuntu from a virtual manchine VMWARE)
* HedgeMage peeks in
<dm_> Hello, it's me again, this time trying to get an older CRT working flicker-free by adding a modeline to lts.conf. But the clients ignore this file (fgrep "lts.conf" in the /etc directory returns 0 matches). How do I have to do that in the ubuntu/edubuntu implementation of LTSP?
<bddebian> Hello
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<bddebian> Hello P3L|C4N0
<P3L|C4N0> hello bddebian 
<yurtboy> anyone know why my keyboard keys do not work (other then numbers row) when booting the ltsp client?
<mhz> did you use numlock?
<yurtboy> no the number keys above the qwerty keys
<yurtboy> I can't log in since I can not type
<yurtboy> works fine though via ltsp 4.2 but not back to edubuntu
<yurtboy> it only works if I remove the ltsp.cong
<yurtboy> it only works if I remove the ltsp.conf
<yurtboy> lts.conf
<k31th> hello
<m5m> Is there a grading software package included with edubuntu?  I have it edubuntu installed, but haven't found a gradebook application...
<mhz> m5m: well, not shipped in the cd but sure at the repositories
<mhz> m5m: not sure if schooltool has that
<mhz> and we do ship schooltool
<m5m> thanks mhz
* HedgeMage peeks in
<m5m> I'm running a few edubuntu-workstations in my classroom, don't have the resources to set up the server-client system at the moment, do you know if schooltool could be run in a workstation environment?  maybe via apache on the workstation it's set up on?
<mhz> m5m: yeah
<mhz> localhost:...
<mhz> hmmm
* mhz forgots the port #!!!
<m5m> it's 7080 it looks like :-P
<mhz> yeah!
<mhz> m5m: thx
<mhz> but you need to login :)
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage ] 
<cbx33> we should have the log by the end of the day
<cbx33> soirry yesterday was hectic
<HedgeMage> cbx33: np I really really appreciate you helping out
<cbx33> not a problem
<HedgeMage> I'm working on the new theme as we speak
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> we're really keen to see that
<cbx33> as we want to make sure what we have fits
* HedgeMage nods
<cbx33> ping pygi 
<HedgeMage> Well, my plan is to get it mostly-done tonight, then polish and do random-weird-browser checks tomorrow.
<pygi> cbx33, what I did this time? :P
<HedgeMage> so, I'll /msg you when it's off the canned theme and on to the theme-in-progress.
<cbx33> nothing
<cbx33> was after a little python advice
<cbx33> HedgeMage: please
<cbx33> it's about closing the main gtk window
<cbx33> I want smoething to happen before it gets closed down
<cbx33> which I've done
<cbx33> but the problem is I'm getting a Force Quit dialog showing
<pygi> uh :-/
<cbx33> does that make sense?
<cbx33> I have used a delete_event function
<cbx33> to intercept the gtk.destroy event
<cbx33> and pop up a dialog box.  Problem is if the dialog box is up for more than a few seconds it thinks the program has crashed
<cbx33> how else can I do this?
* pygi tries to remember some things ;)
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> back
<cbx33> do you see what I mean
<pygi> cbx33, yes I do
<cbx33> but I can't find anywhere on the net the proper way of doing it
<cbx33> infact, they do even site the way I've done this as the proper way of doing this
<pygi> Never needed to intercept gtk.destroy by now :-/
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> are you sure you want to quit :p
<cbx33> it must be possible
<pygi> hm, you could do hooking
<cbx33> hooking?
* cbx33 is lost
<pygi> hm, basicly, with hooking (if you hook gtk.destroy event) you could start showing another form
<cbx33> what would be the other form?
<pygi> well, that one: "Are you sure you wanna quit?" :P
<cbx33> what if they click canel?
<pygi> then the action you defided on cancel button would happen
<cbx33> pygi: but the window would alredy be destroyed no?
<pygi> nop
<cbx33> but isn't that what delete_event should do?
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount/gisomount
<cbx33> that's the code as is
<cbx33> self.win.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
<cbx33> connects it up
<cbx33> what changes would I make?
<pygi> well, you see hooking allows you to intercept stuff
<pygi> before they are executed
<cbx33> oh cool i see
<cbx33> you got an example somewhere?
<pygi> hm, not really :-/
<pygi> or sec, lemme try to write something :)
<cbx33> pygi you're a star
<pygi> cbx33, gimme the code example of how you did it, so I can see what could have gone wrong
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount/gisomount
<cbx33> self.win.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
<cbx33> connects the event handler
<cbx33> and the actual function is called delete_event
<pygi> what about this:
<pygi>  win = gtk.Window()
<pygi>  def on_delete_event(widget, event):
<pygi>    print "Delete was called but I won't die!"
<pygi>    return True
<pygi>  win.connect("delete-event",on_delete_event)
<cbx33> that works 
<cbx33> because there is no pause in the on_delete_event function
<cbx33> me having a dialog window in there means it pauses
<cbx33> and hence the event is in a state of...have I been delete, have I been cancelled
<pygi> well, what's the problem then? :)
<cbx33> the pause in the function means the Force Quit dialog shows up
<cbx33> after your print statement
<cbx33> try adding a dialog box inthere with an ok button
<cbx33> while it's waiting for use input it thinks it has crashed
<pygi> erhm :-/
<cbx33> do you see what I mean now?
<pygi> yes, I do
<cbx33> my only other ugly hack method is for that function to set a flag, saying I want to close and for a gobject timer to poll that flag and act accordingly
<cbx33> that way the delete_event function could execute cleanly
<cbx33> and quickly
<pygi> yes, but it's weird :-/
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> think it's a bug?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I can see logically why it happens
<cbx33> but I can't see an "expensive" way roiund it
<cbx33> shall i do it that way for now
<cbx33> or do you think there is another better way?
<pygi> There is a better way ofcourse, I just can't remember it this second :-/
<dm_> Hello. I have problems with LTSP (which is AFAIK used in EDUbuntu) and X_MODE lines in its lts.conf. 
<dm_> Can anybody tell me the correct syntax to let the client's X server switch to the monitor values set in that file?
<cbx33> dm_ no, not off hand
<cbx33> ogra would know
<cbx33> but he's not arrived yet
<cbx33> he'll be here shortly I would think
<cbx33> pygi: sure
<cbx33> I'll leave it for a while and see if I can get the answer
<dm_> cbx33: ;-) that's what they said in #ltsp ...
<cbx33> hehe ogra is the man
<DanielC> Stupid question: Could someone tell me what /24 means in "192.168.0.1/24"? In which context would I see that?
<cbx33> it's the hmm
<cbx33> iknow this
<cbx33> isn't it the subnet bits?
<DanielC> That's what I keep telling myself :)  I /used/ to understand this.
<dm_> DanielC: Its the same as netmask 255.255.255.0
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> So every multiple of 8 gives me another 255.
* cbx33 isn't sure now
<dm_> DanielC: It means that the first 24 bits of the IP addr is the network, the remaining 8 the subnet
<DanielC> So, /8 == 255.0.0.0 and /16 == 255.255.0.0
<dm_> Yes
<cbx33> yes it is the subnet mask
<dm_> And between
<cbx33> man havn't used that in ages
<DanielC> dm_: And what you said means that with /24 all the computers will have addresses of the form 192.168.0.{something}  right?
<dm_> And /28 would be something around 255.255.255.196
<dm_> Right
<DanielC> Ok, gotcha.
<DanielC> Thanks.
<cbx33> phew i'm glad i knew it :P
* Yagisan waves hello
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<pygi> hey Yagisan, whats up? :)
<cbx33> hey Yagisan howz your python skillz?
<Yagisan> lets see, getting flamed by ungrateful users, waiting for dinner, needing to get a sarge pbuilder set up, and 1GB+ of .debs to update, and uscan && uupdate ain't going to work on them.
<Yagisan> cbx33: non-existant
<cbx33> dang it
<Yagisan> cbx33: yeah - I need to package a python app too. :(
<cbx33> oh?
<pygi> Yagisan, ah, well :)
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: hiya
<pygi> Yagisan, how's your daughter's hand btw.?
<Yagisan> pygi: getting better now.
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: still here ?
<pygi> Yagisan, nice :)
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: well sort of, I have just moved to the office from home, but that is about all that has changes
<RobinShepheard> *changed
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: as I recall, we were talking about alcoholic drinks
<RobinShepheard> lol that would be right umechu was it??
* Yagisan wishes he could shoot whinging users
* RobinShepheard complete understands that feeling
<Yagisan> yes it was. :) I could use some now
<RobinShepheard> bit early for me, it is 10:36am here
* Yagisan wonders why windows users complain the most - "You must not support Linux, you spend to much time with it -blah blah blah"
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: windows user moan the most cos windows breaks the most
<DanielC> Yagisan: Do you do tech support for a living?
<Yagisan> DanielC: used to. I now do e-security as a living (in short - I break into networks and systems)
* cbx33 does
* spacey supports linux but not windows
<spacey> =)
<DanielC> Yagisan: You mean like the movie "Sneakers"? cool!
* spacey busy helping organisations to move away from windows to linux =)
* Yagisan offers just enough windows support, so he can promote a migration to Ubuntu
<Yagisan> DanielC: exactly. I don't get enough jobs like that though :( I enjoy that the most
<spacey> Yagisan: we also integrate windows and linux
<spacey> thats the only thing we do with windows, integrate it into linux or get rid of it:)
<DanielC> heh :)
<Yagisan> yep. then I can collect my support fees for coming over and running "sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude upgrade" ;)
<spacey> Yagisan: not remote?
<Yagisan> at least, I'd like to
<Yagisan> spacey: customers like the fact that I pop by to check on them, gives them a warm fuzzy feeling
<Yagisan> spacey: and stops them looking elsewhere
<spacey> Yagisan: yeah we pop by as well on regular basis, but we prefer to work remote
<spacey> :)
<Yagisan> spacey: certainly remote is possible, but it's more a PR then technical reason to see them
<DanielC> Going to the users place has some extra value. It helps them get to know you. You know, build a customer-client relationship.
<RobinShepheard> spacey: It is true, it is the perception that you must be doing something if they see you, where as if you work from home they reckon you can't be doing anything
<spacey> also depends on client size
<spacey> RobinShepheard: i work from office:)
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: Not only that though. There is a human relations side to it as well. Communicating with your clients.
<RobinShepheard> spacey: so do I now, used to run my own company, but traded it in for a regular wage
<spacey> we have really good reponsetimes when problems occur, also important =)
<spacey> RobinShepheard: i run my own company at the moment
<spacey> got an office space two months ago =)
<RobinShepheard> where in the world are you spacey??
<RobinShepheard> sweet, I ran my firm fro home
<RobinShepheard> *from
<spacey> RobinShepheard: the netherlands
<cbx33> spacey: did you watch the match?
<RobinShepheard> ahh, nice country, I spent some time in the hague when my uncle worked for shell there
<spacey> cbx33: which match?
<spacey> RobinShepheard: ah
<spacey> RobinShepheard: where are you from?
<cbx33> football
<cbx33> worldcup?
<spacey> cbx33: like is said, which match?
<cbx33> i thought there was one yesterday?
<spacey> two
<spacey> nl vs servia and angola vs portugal
<spacey> at least i have seen those
<RobinShepheard> spacey: I am from the UK
<spacey> ah
<cbx33> me too
<spacey> we won \o/
<cbx33> :( I can't find a way to get this bloody python working
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> I was wating it on ascii
<RobinShepheard> ??
<cbx33> there's a telnet ascii live broadcast
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: seriously
<cbx33> seriously
<cbx33> but the res isn't great
<RobinShepheard> I am not really a footbal fan so I have not been that bothered, I just like to know we are doing ok
<cbx33> we're doing ok
<spacey> i don't really care about football
<spacey> but it was 30 degrees outside
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I gather we only won because of an own goal, doesn't sound like we are doing that well
<spacey> so its a good excuse to relax 
<cbx33> as I said ok
<cbx33> I don;t really care much either
<RobinShepheard> spacey: yeah I am a rugby fan
<RobinShepheard> much better game that one
<spacey> i don't even know the players names (well maybe 4 names)
<spacey> i'm not a fan in any case =)
<RobinShepheard> I can name 5 of the england players and that is it, I can name about a doen that have retired though :)
<RobinShepheard> *dozen
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 gives up, this is gonna have to wait until later
<spacey> cbx33: where are you from btw?
<RobinShepheard> first proper client machine to be used in anger today on the office network
<spacey> to get things in context a bit
* Yagisan will only watch 1 game
<RobinShepheard> today
<RobinShepheard> spacey: cbx is from just down the road from me, about 50 kilometres
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: which game will that be??
<cbx33> GGRRRRRRRR
* Yagisan is only interested to the Australia vs Japan game.
<cbx33> where has mplayer gone from universe?
<cbx33> Yagisan: lol
<cbx33> do we not have mplayer anymore?
<spacey> RobinShepheard: ah, thats funny
<spacey> pretty long road
<RobinShepheard> well, not that far, I used to work 160km from home
<Yagisan> cbx33: we have mplayer. update again, sounds like a failed update.
<spacey> cbx33: its in multiverse AFAIK
<cbx33> kmplayer-base - Base files for KMPlayerkmplayer-doc - Handbook for KMPlayerkmplayer-konq-plugins - KMPlayer plugin for KHTML/Konquerorkmplayer - media player for KDEksubtile - subtitle editor for KDEtea - small text editor with syntax highlighting & UTF support
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> ok
<spacey> great that h264 is quite well supported now
<spacey> before it was really laggy
<Yagisan> yep. I sent the first patches to make it build the h264 support
<cbx33> w00000t
<Yagisan> of course, my patches never did get used, but we got the h264 support
<cbx33> do we still have to get codecs from elsewhere?
<Yagisan> cbx33: only WMV9 (for crap porn), and Realplayer 10 (more crap porn)
<cbx33> phew
<cbx33> ahh....music to soothe my soul
* Yagisan advises that if you need a "Windows Codec" for it, then it is obviously of inferior quality to be ogling at.
<RobinShepheard> lol Yagisan
<Yagisan> marriage - when your net porn is no longer called "Asian 3some Fanatasy.avi" but rather "Neighbours (TVRIP) 2006-06-12.avi" ;)
* Yagisan is on a roll. good thing highvoltage isn't here to mod him down
<Yagisan> the nicest thing here, is because things hardly ever go wrong, we can chat about anything.
<cbx33> Yagisan: say i needed the wmv9 because some dilbert didn't use a proper format
<Yagisan> cbx33: you'll need w32codecs, and be running i386. 
<cbx33> oh you're kidding
<Yagisan> cbx33: nope. that wmv9 shit hasn't been reverse engineered AFAIK
<cbx33> ok
<Yagisan> cbx33: it's a step back in quality. rather like that old DivX3 stuff
<Yagisan> cbx33: and in typical microsoft fashion, not standards compliant
* cbx33 nkoew one of the software developers at divX 
<Yagisan> DivX3 != DIvX or DivX5
<Yagisan> DivX3 is a hacked MSMPEG2 (WMV9 predecessors) IIRC
<cbx33> ah
* Yagisan off to eat
<DanielC> I re-installed Edubuntu and now it doesn't detect one of the ethernet cards.
<DanielC> What is the hardware detection program?
<DanielC> How can I run the hardware detection again?
<DanielC> Ok, this is what I did: I edited /etc/network/interfaces and added a line for eth1. I ran "ifup eth1" and magically it worked.
<DanielC> I don't like it when I don't understand why something works.
<DanielC> Does this mean that 'ifup' also does hardware detection or something like that?
<DanielC> How does Linux decide which card is eth0 and which is eth1? It doesn't seem to be consistent between different installations on the same hardware.
<DanielC> This worries me. What if I configure eth0 to do one thing and eth1 to do another and later Linux decides to switch eth0 and eth1?
<rodarvus> hi there
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<cbx33> need a little help
<cbx33> when you have a second
<cbx33> pygi is a little stumped too
<cbx33> I'm trying to use a delete_event to stop the gtk window from being closed,so that I can pop up a dialog box for some choices.  The problem is that because the delete_event is hanging in limbo, gnome thinks the program has crashed and shows the "Force Quit" dialog box
<cbx33> and way you can think of doing it....?
<cbx33> my only other ugly hack method is to make the delete_event handler set a flag that we are scheduling to close the program, and for a gobject timer to keep polling it
<cbx33> but tha'ts not ideal is it ogra ?
<spacey> DanielC: i don't think it will swap after install
<spacey> DanielC: ifup only brings the interface up
<spacey> so the driver was already loaded
<spacey> see dmesg
<DanielC> spacey: What if you add another ethernet card later?
<spacey> then it could swap i guess
<spacey> but at least its not unexpected then
<DanielC> That's what happened in this case, sort of. I installed but Ubuntu didn't detect the ethernet card. So I moved it to another PCI slot and then it detected it.
<DanielC> I wish I understood hardware detection better.
<spacey> it is just automagic
<DanielC> Is there a program for detecting hardware or is this 100% kernel magic?
<spacey> also a part in userland
<spacey> but its all magic :o)
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> Part of userland? So is this a separate program and not just the kernel?
<spacey> udev
<spacey> not sure how its fits together exactly
<spacey> but it Just Works(TM)
<spacey> you can see in `dmesg` when drivers are loaded
<cbx33> DanielC: it shouldn't swap after install
<spacey> ofcourse you have to configure a networkcard after installation
<cbx33> they are stored in a file 
<DanielC> Thanks for the pointer though :)  I'll read the udev* man pages (I didn't know about udev before).
<cbx33> somewhere i forget where
<spacey> cbx33: it doesn't really matter
<cbx33> true
<spacey> DanielC: as an end user you don't have to know
<DanielC> spacey: By "configure the network card" are you just talking about /etc/network/interfaces ?
<spacey> just look if your hardware is detected in `dmesg`
<spacey> DanielC: yup
<DanielC> spacey: If I want to be a system administrator, is this something I should know?
<cbx33> DanielC: doubtful
<cbx33> most sysadmin is knowing where to find the stuff you need rather than know it all
<spacey> DanielC: not really,
<cbx33> DanielC: how old are you?
<DanielC> I'm 27.
<spacey> knowing that it exists is helpful ofcourse
<cbx33> what do you do for a job currently
<spacey> and what it does, but you won't need it in practice (at least i don't)
<DanielC> Ok. So hardware detection is kernel magic and all I can do is see if the kernel detected it (e.g. lsmod, dmesg, etc).
<DanielC> cbx33: PHP/MySQL mostly.
<spacey> yeah basicly yes
<DanielC> cbx33: My background is in mathematics.
<cbx33> i see
* cbx33 is an acoustician
<cbx33> but I'm the IT Manager/SysAdmin at a school
<cbx33> at the moment
<DanielC> I'm a Linux geek. Been using Linux for 8 years, but I've never admin a critical system and I'd like to be able to do so.
<cbx33> ah i see
<DanielC> For starters I'm setting up non-critical Linux thin clients in local schools.
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> edubuntu?
<cbx33> ;P
<DanielC> So if they fail to work it's not catastrophic. So it gives me a chance to learn.
<DanielC> Yes, Edubuntu :)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> and it gives them alot for free
<DanielC> Yup
<DanielC> I've only done it once so far. We went to a school that we're "friends" with. We offered to reuse their old computers that they were going to throw away, and do all the labour for free if they'd allow us to experiment on them.
<cbx33> nice
<DanielC> It works well because it gives me a low-pressure opportunity to learn this.
<EmxBA> hi guys
<EmxBA> is edubuntu girl here
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> bluekuja, hi
<DanielC> Help. I run 'ifup eth1' and it just hangs there forever. eth1 is pointing to the clients, it's configured with:
<DanielC> iface eth1 inet static
<DanielC>     address 192.168.17.1
<DanielC>     netmask 255.255.255.0
<DanielC>     gateway 192.168.17.1
<cbx33> DanielC: did you try running
<cbx33>  /etc/init.d/networking restart
<DanielC> yes
<DanielC> It takes forever.
<DanielC> It does return eventually though.
<cbx33> does it configure ok?
<DanielC> Judging from the output it seems 'alright' but the delay worries me.
<DanielC> I don't know if it configures correctly because I can't start the DHCP server :(
<cbx33> sounds like a DNS issue?
<cbx33> they normally take a while
<DanielC> Ok.
<DanielC> Well, I'll leave it for now then.
<cbx33> is this on the serveR?
<DanielC> I don't understand why the dhcp server won't start. Running /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart only says "fail".
<DanielC> Yes, this is the Edubuntu server.
<DanielC> This is a brand-new install.
<ogra> DanielC, did you follow the gettingstarted document from the channel topic ? 
<DanielC> I've edited /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match the addresses I want it to give out.
<cbx33> ogra: hhhheyy buddy
<ogra> hi cbx33 
<DanielC> ogra: As closely as possible.
<ogra> sorry, i'm late today, too many maills if you are away for two days
<cbx33> yeh I saw you were away
<ogra> DanielC, look in 7var7log/daemon.log, the dhpc server will tell you whats wrong 
<cbx33> up to anything fun
<ogra> err
<DanielC> ogra: I'm using a different network IP range (192.168.17.x). I've configured /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match.
<ogra>  /var/log/daemon.log
<DanielC> ogra: Ok. I'll go look.
<cbx33> ogra, sorry to bug you
<cbx33> i have a little python question
<ogra> cbx33, yup, saw it above ...
<cbx33> can you offer any advice?
<ogra>         self.win = self.wTree.get_widget("window")
<ogra>         self.win.connect("destroy", lambda w: some_function_diaplaying_a_popup())
<cbx33> really?
<ogra> *displaying too :)
<cbx33> that simple?
<ogra> yep
<DanielC> ogra: Thanks! That log showed me the problem.
* cbx33 is sure he tried something similar but goes off to try it now
<DanielC> ogra: It works now.
<ogra> cbx33, the function should call gtk.main_quit() after the dialog returned
<ogra> DanielC, great :)
<DanielC> ogra: Mi mis-edited /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and told it to serve IP's from 192.168.17.20 to 192.168.0.250  (notice the .0. instead of .17.)
<ogra> yeh
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i make such typos as well :) 
<DanielC> :)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ will solve that in edgy i hope ;)
<DanielC> Does anyone know who is responsible for dhcpd.conf? I think it should default to something other than 192.168.0.x or else grab the information at install time.
<DanielC> Ideally it should match the values entered by the user at install time.
<pygi> ogra, nice, so something is there already ;)
<ogra> pygi, its already packaged and waits for the archive to be ready to upload ...
<pygi> great ;)
<ogra> we cant build X stuff yet ... the toolchain is still not done
<DanielC> Question: On a default Edubuntu install do I still need to run ltsp-build-client ?  I see that /opt/ltsp/i386 exists and is populated already.
<magnon> 5~ogra, looking nice :)
<magnon> disregard weird characters
<ogra> DanielC, ltsp-build-client is run from the CD installer, so if you do a fresh install thats not needed
<DanielC> ogra: Looks very good (the LTSP manager).
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, thanks.
<ogra> it *is* needed if you do a wrokstation install and add the ltsp biuts later or if thats an ubuntu install
* ogra glares at his fingers, then back at his keyboard
<ogra> magnon, thanks, patches accepted ;)
<magnon> yadda yadda. some beautiful day I'll have time :p
<ogra> :)
* magnon ponders taking two weeks off to work with ubuntu and politics
<cbx33> ogra: problem is
<cbx33> with that method you have just shown
<cbx33> it actually destroys the window
<cbx33> I don't want it to
<cbx33> sure I get my dialog, but the window behind gets destroyed
<cbx33> anyway to prevent that from happening?
<ogra> hmm, it shouldnt happen at all until gtk.main_quit() is called
<cbx33> well it is
<cbx33> I'm pretty sure
<jsgotangco> greetings
<cbx33> lemme check something 
<ogra> then your dialog is wrong i guess
<cbx33> dialog = gtk.MessageDialog(self.win,               gtk.DIALOG_MODAL | gtk.DIALOG_DESTROY_WITH_PARENT,               gtk.MESSAGE_ERROR, gtk.BUTTONS_OK, None)
<ogra> DanielC, why do you want to open unsafe xdmcp connection to your edubuntu box ? 
* ogra is wading through his 300 mails backlog in ubuntu-users currently
<cbx33> ogra that's the function http://pastebin.com/704234
<cbx33> and it's called via how you said 
<ogra> hey highvoltage !
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey ogra and cbx33!
<highvoltage> you wouldn't believe the morning i had, trying to sort out my visa
<ogra> you poor guys and your governments
<cbx33> highvoltage: I've started getting RSI pain in my upper arm now :(
<highvoltage> cbx33: did you go to the doctor to diagnose it? are you sure it's RSI?
<cbx33> not yet
<cbx33> but I will be making an appointment soon
<highvoltage> yes, it's best not to mess around.
<highvoltage> i hope it's nothing serious. i mean, i hope it turns out to be something more curable.
<ogra> cbx33, try s/dialog.destroy/dialog.hide/
<highvoltage> last year, i was very stressed and had lots of chest pains and had tingly feelings in my left arm. everyone told me it's probably heart problems.
<DanielC> What's the difference between /var/log/daemon.log and /var/log/messages?
<highvoltage> but then when i went to the doctor, it turns out it was just a muscle i pulled in my chest while picking up something heavy :)
<cbx33> ogra: the window gets destroyed as the dialog box enters
<cbx33> highvoltage: phew
<ogra> DanielC, daemon.log logs only events from system daemons 
<highvoltage> i hope that your case will also be not as serious as it seems.
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: most people like to think the worst when you say you don't feel great
<cbx33> highvoltage: me too
<DanielC> ogra: Ok. So daemon.log is a subset of 'messages'?
<RobinShepheard> I think it is a sadistic streak
<ogra> DanielC, mesaages is a summary
<ogra> (of several logs)
<DanielC> ogra: So daemon.log may have more information?
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: yep.
<cbx33> ogra: how about just using that delete event to always delete the destroy event?
<cbx33> and let the destroy handler deal with it?
<ogra> DanielC, daemon.log has detailed info if you look for problems with a system service
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: do you do any sort of regular exercise?? , maybe best to be careful about how you answer that one
<DanielC> ogra: Thanks.
<cbx33> or will it not get run if the event is deleted
<ogra> <cbx33> ogra: how about just using that delete event to always delete the destroy event?
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: I'm forever running up and down stairs at work, I cycle sometimes, and fly sports kites
<ogra> thats sentecne doesnt make sense, does it ? 
<cbx33> use the delete_event and link it to a function that always passes True, so the destroy even always gets ignored
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: I would think it unlikely that you would get rsi in your upper arm if you fly the kites regularly, rsi tends to occur if the repetitive excersise is all you do
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: how does 16 hours a day grab you
<ogra> it should get ignored anyway if you dotn call gtk_main_quit ... thats whats wrong ...
<cbx33> well it's not
<cbx33> it's destroying it
<cbx33> ok, I'll have a deeper dig, character by character :p
<cbx33> ogra: there is a "on_exit" :          (gtk.main_quit) } 
<cbx33> in the autoconnect dictionary
<cbx33> could that be affecting it?
<ogra> no idea, i never use glade for that, i usually use python here to have the full control if windows are opened or closed ;)
<ogra> s/opened or closed/shown or hidden/
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what happened to your visa?
<cbx33> ogra: so you don;t use glade for connecting signals
<cbx33> you do that all with python?
<jsgotangco> pygtk
<ogra> cbx33, yep
<cbx33> even all the multitudes of buttons?
<ogra> well, waht do you need from a button usually ? 
<cbx33> true
<ogra> i mostly only use the "clicked" signal ;)
<cbx33> yeh yeh :p
<ogra> so that produces one line of extra code (or two with getting the widget from the tree) but gives more control ;)
<cbx33> yeh i suppose
<cbx33> ok, I've modified it to how you said
<cbx33> but 
<cbx33> that window is still being destroyed
<cbx33> should that function return a value?
<cbx33> do you have an example of an app you have written where you do this?
<ogra> hmm, not from the top of my head
<DanielC> Ok, a brand-new installation and NFS still won't work.
<DanielC> On the client I run: mount -t nfs 192.168.17.1:/opt/ltsp mydir
<DanielC> On the client I get:  mount: RCP: Timed out
<DanielC> On the server, daemon.log says  "mountd: authenticated mount request from 192.168.17.40:740 for /opt/ltsp (/opt/ltsp)"
<DanielC> That is all :(
<cbx33> ogra: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtktutorial/pygtk2tutorial/ch-GettingStarted.html that's where I learnt about using the delete event
<cbx33> they say it should be used to pop up and ask if a program should close
<cbx33> # If you return FALSE in the "delete_event" signal handler,   18           # GTK will emit the "destroy" signal. Returning TRUE means   19           # you don't want the window to be destroyed.   20           # This is useful for popping up 'are you sure you want to quit?'   21           # type dialogs.
<cbx33> which is exactly what I want to do, except if the dialog is on hte screen for more than a few seconds it thinks the program has crashed
<cbx33> I think I'll have to do an ugly hack for this, delete_event + setting flag + gobject_timer for polling flag
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: they'll let me know if i have it on wednesday or thursday
<highvoltage> friday is a public holiday in .za
<jsgotangco> heh same day as me
<jsgotangco> its a public holiday today here
<jsgotangco> (independence day)
<jsgotangco> so i'll have to call them up tomoorow
<highvoltage> we have youth day on friday.
<jsgotangco> the suspense!
<highvoltage> yeah!
<jsgotangco> the excitement!
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> the expense!
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> yeah, the travel insurance and agency fees took a sharp bite out of my budget today.
<jsgotangco> me too
<jsgotangco> im feeling it now lol
<pygi> cbx33, meeting is today, right?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> i hope so
<jsgotangco> what time?
<pygi> 20:00 UTC
<cbx33> ARRGGHHH python is killing me
<cbx33> uh huh
<jsgotangco> ahhh no deal folks
* jsgotangco would like to have full sleep tonight
* jsgotangco will just look into the logs later
<pygi> jsgotangco, and I asked you to reschedule meeting :P
<pygi> no worries, jus you sleep :)
<pygi> just*
<jsgotangco> pygi: this week is a bit hectic, so can't commit, visa and travel preparation and all
<pygi> jsgotangco, no worries, just you sleep ;)
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: which meeting is it tonight??
<pygi> wb jsgotangco 
<pygi> RobinShepheard, cookbook
<jsgotangco> thanks, the dsl just died
<jsgotangco> hmm
<RobinShepheard> pygi: thought so, just wanted to confirm
<RobinShepheard> pygi: I got a little confused with all the emails, is it still going to be in ubuntu-cookbook or is it in ubuntu-meeting as was said about in the last email??
<pygi> the last mail was: #edubuntu
<pygi> I think at least :-/
<RobinShepheard> sorry I was looking at the followup from oli
<RobinShepheard> ok so we are still going for edubuntu yeah
<spacey> pygi: tonight?
<pygi> spacey, indeed
<spacey> i thought it was wednessday
<pygi> wednesday is s-c-p meeting
<cbx33> pygi: I'm still no closer on that python issue
<jsgotangco> don't get burned out =)
<spacey> due to some changes, Cookbook meeting will
<spacey> be wednesday 20:00 UTC at #ubuntu, cookbook.
<spacey> thats what the mail on edubuntu-devel says
* spacey slaps pygi
<pygi> spacey, that's older mail I think :P
<spacey> pygi: well thats the last mail on list that i can see
<spacey> or my subscription is borked
<pygi> spacey, eh, no need to slap me 'cause you don't see newest mail :P
<spacey> there is no newer mail
<spacey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-June/date.html#start
<spacey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-June/001547.html is the last one
<spacey> which states wednessday
* spacey rightfully slaps pygi
<pygi> spacey, ok, so it seems I forgot to post new things :P
<RobinShepheard> I hate to take sides but having re-read my email, it does look like spacey is right, my last email was one from oli saying about where to have the meeting but no change
<spacey> :p
<k31th> yo
<pygi> RobinShepheard, yes, he is right :P
<spacey> muwhaha
* spacey enjoys the moment
<RobinShepheard> pygi: sorry mate
<spacey> =P
<pygi> RobinShepheard, bah, sorry for what? no need to be sorry :)
<pygi> spacey, bleh, I can also be wrong sometimes ;P
<spacey> pygi: ofcourse ;)
* RobinShepheard is worried it may go to spaceys head
<pygi> still, the meeting is today :P
<highvoltage> pygi: what time is that gagin?
<RobinShepheard> here comes the onset of megolomania with that laugh
<highvoltage> (again)
<pygi> highvoltage, 20:00 UTC
<jsgotangco> lol my laptop suspended accidentally
<pygi> jsgotangco, bleh :
<highvoltage> lol? that's never funny when it happens to me :)
<pygi> I haven't said "lol" :)
<jsgotangco> well i expected n-m to die...
<jsgotangco> but it didn't
<jsgotangco> dead n-m =  no good
<DanielC> By default Edubuntu/Ubuntu doesn't come with a firewall, right?
<spacey> the firewall is there, but there are no rules, so its not effective :)
<cbx33> ogra, I've just found out it must be a bug in well, something larger
<spacey> but iptables is ready for you =)
<cbx33> geit does it too
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> gedit
<DanielC> spacey: In other words, if NFS is not working the problem is not a firewall.
<cbx33> can someone else confirm
<cbx33> write something in gedit
<cbx33> goto close the application
<cbx33> it pops up with do you want to save
<cbx33> wait for 5 secs
<cbx33> wait for 5 secs
<cbx33> does it then come up with Force Quit?
<DanielC> cbx33: This is true for any application you run in Gnome.
<cbx33> i wish I'd have know
<cbx33> n
<cbx33> I spent an entire day thinking there was a bug in my code
<cbx33> grrrrrr
<cbx33> DanielC: is it filed as a bug?
<DanielC> cbx33: You can try the same with OpenOffice. Edit a document, don't save, click on the top-right corner "x" to close it. OpenOffice says "are you sure you don't want to save". Wait 10 seconds and you get that message.
<pygi> cbx33, bleh =P
<pygi> sec, lemme try
<cbx33> ok
<DanielC> cbx33: I think it's a feature. What if a program freezes?
<cbx33> well true
<cbx33> but I have found a way round it
<cbx33> ;)
<DanielC> What's your method?
<pygi> cbx33, that doesnt happen here
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> does for DanielC and me
<cbx33> you on dapper?
<pygi> I am currently not on dapper, no
<cbx33> there ya go
<cbx33> i think it's a dapper thing
<pygi> (not ubuntu for that thoughts)
<pygi> bleh
<pygi> switch to edgy ;)
<cbx33> maybe when it;'s availbale :p
<pygi> In like 2 weeks switch ;)
<DanielC> Hmmm... I just tried with gedit and it doesn't happen there.
<DanielC> I guess I don't know exactly what I need to do to make that dialog come up.
<cbx33> DanielC: hmmm
<cbx33> it worked on gedit here
<cbx33> and it works on the app I'm currently developing
<cbx33> it happens I believe because a delete_event is used
<DanielC> Just brand it as a feature :)
<cbx33> and whilst the delete_event handler is figuring out what to do...hence showing you a dialog....the event is hanging in limbo
<cbx33> my hack which I may implement is to take that handler and just pass back a flag
<cbx33> saying that the X was clicked
<cbx33> then I'll have a gboject timer setup to poll evern 100ms
<cbx33> and see if the flag is set
<cbx33> if it is, it can shutdown properly and cleanly
<cbx33> it happens with GIMP too
<spacey> DanielC: you can check if there are any firewall rules in action by typing `sudo iptables -L`
<DanielC> spacey: I just checked. There are no rules.
<DanielC> This is true for both the client and server.
<spacey> you still have timeouts?
<DanielC> spacey: Yes, same as before.
<spacey> and you can ssh to the nfs server from the same machine?
<DanielC> I checked /etc/log/daemon.log on the server and it says:
<DanielC> mountd: authenticated mount request from 192.168.17.240:740 for  /opt/ltsp (/opt/ltsp)
<DanielC> And yes, I can ssh.
<spacey> so it receives the request
<spacey> wierd that nothing else happens
<spacey> your using nfs-kernel-server or userland?
<DanielC> nfs-kernel-server
* DanielC doesn't know what userland is.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: daft question but is nfs-kernel-server actually running, I dont think it started by default on my install
<lucasvo> DanielC: not running as a module in the kernel
<DanielC> RobinShepheard:  Yes, I made sure it was running.
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: At least, I ran /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server start
<DanielC> Ditto for 'nfs-common' and 'portmap'
* DanielC doesn't know what portmap does but someone suggested that yesterday.
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/29584/
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: my gedit has still not popped up the message after 5 mins
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: the filesystems in listed in exports file isn't it
<lucasvo> cbx33: some applications do the right thing some don't
<DanielC> RobinShepheard:  yes it is
<cbx33> lucasvo: yeh
<cbx33> but I'd like to know what the right thing is
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: and the network address range is correct
<cbx33> I can't get pygtk to work properly
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: I tried mounting a filesystem that wasn't in exports and the server log is different then (it says "refused mount").
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: At least in /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf. Is there any other place I should look?
<RobinShepheard> /etc/exports
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: I *do* have a non-standard IP range.
<lucasvo> DanielC: that could be the problem
<DanielC> Ok. What do I do in /etc/exports to give it the correct IP range?
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: if you look in /etc/exports it is the config for the nfs shares
<DanielC> I hope it is because that means we an fix it.
<lucasvo> DanielC: what is there currently?
<RobinShepheard> mine looks like this  /opt/ltsp       *(ro,async,no_root_squash) 192.168.32.0/255.255.255.0(rw)
* DanielC goes to read /etc/exports
<DanielC> Mine says: /opt/ltsp  *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<DanielC> Notice taht it does not mention any IP range.
<RobinShepheard> add the ip range on the end of the line like below (you will have to sudo vi /etc/exports)
<RobinShepheard> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,async,no_root_squash) 192.168.32.0/255.255.255.0(rw)
<RobinShepheard> but obviously replace my ip range with yours
<lucasvo> # Automatically added by ltsp-server
<lucasvo> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<DanielC> ok  (mine is 192.168.17.0/24)
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: that is not needed, afaik
<lucasvo> because this entry will give you write access(see rW)
<RobinShepheard> I had problems until I added it, but that could be the network config here
* DanielC goes and adds that line because he doesn't know what else to try
<lucasvo> don't make rw
<lucasvo> try it with ro
<RobinShepheard> sorry, yeah that was me playing around
<RobinShepheard> I needed rw access for the ica clients cache
<DanielC> :(  No change
<DanielC> I notice that daemon.log looks different when I try to boot a thin client. In that case it just shows the DHCP negotiation and then stops.
<DanielC> I don't see the mountd line.
<DanielC> Odd.
<jsgotangco> waaaaaaaaa
<salleschool> Hello
<salleschool> I'm here again
<salleschool> I have installed everything from the very begining...
<salleschool> and I'm trying to boot up some terminals...
<salleschool> a few of them are working properly
<salleschool> but
<salleschool> but
<salleschool> most of them are out 
<salleschool> They are pII 200mhz
<salleschool> and a s3 1mb video card
<salleschool> everything is ok but not the x-screen
<salleschool> what Have I put in the lts.conf?
<lucasvo> salleschool: what error do you get?
<salleschool> I forgot, they are between 32 and 128 mb of ram memory
<salleschool> a very black screen
<lucasvo> 32mb is critical
<lucasvo> salleschool: and if you press ctrl+alt+f1
<lucasvo> you get a login prompt?
<salleschool> good question
<lucasvo> salleschool: does X even start?
<salleschool> the fact is that I cannot see anything and the green light on the monitor turned red
<lucasvo> oh
<lucasvo> so no input signal at all
<salleschool> I have changed the monitor but it's the same
<lucasvo> salleschool: do they have the same graphics card?
<salleschool> so I think it's rerlated with the vga card
<salleschool> most of the have the same vga card
<salleschool> No problem with s3 2mb vga card
<lucasvo> I am not sure if 1mb is enough
<salleschool> is there any code for the lts.conf?
<salleschool> I had w98 on those pcs and they worked with 16 bits, 800x600 resolution, so they were ok
<lucasvo> I think you can somehow set the color depth down to 16
<lucasvo> X_COLOR_DEPTH = "16"
<lucasvo> try it out
<lucasvo> I never tried it
<lucasvo> salleschool: but does ctrl+alt+f1 give you a login prompt?
<salleschool> ok
<salleschool> I need some minutes out
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> cu
<DanielC> The thin client works!!!!
<DanielC> It turns out that the problem was on the client. But I don't know what the problem was.
<DanielC> I just went and found a different PC and tried that one.
<DanielC> I don't know what it was about the previous thin client. It certainly wasn't the network card (because the new one has the same card).
<Amaranth> arg i need a notebook
<DanielC> I can't imagine what else it could be.
<Amaranth> too many flowcharts in my head
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: I occasionally have a machine fail to boot saying it has problems with the root filesystem, it seems to be a problem witht the dhcp, but it is irregularly occuring so I can't pin it down yet
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: Interesting. That's what's happening in my case.
<DanielC> That's why I've been banging my head against NFS all weekend.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: it boots probably 3 out of 4 times
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: when it boots it has no data for the root filesystem when i comes up witht the data for ip address, dns etc
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: I have 2 dhcp servers here with different ranges, when it fails it is almost always on the range of the secon dhcp server
<DanielC> Interesting.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: It is set up identically to the first server but seems to fail to dish out the info sometimes
<DanielC> I can't imagine what could go wrong at the client that wouldn't let it mount the root filesystem.
<RobinShepheard> I think it is a timeout when it is trying to get the dhcp information
<DanielC> It's not the network card. The new machine I got is using the same network card and the same etherboot floppy.
<RobinShepheard> well in my case that is
<RobinShepheard> it is more prevalent on one network switch than the others, coincidentally it is the most crowded switch
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* RobinShepheard waves good bye
<DanielC> bye bye
<RobinShepheard> I got to go home, see everyone later
<pygi> bluekuja, poke? :)
<Amaranth> pygi: I know big words now.
<Amaranth> like "Robinson-Fisher bayesian probability algorithm"
<pygi> Amaranth, hehe, congrats :)
<Amaranth> I also have a headache, the two might be related.
<pygi> bleh :P
* Yagisan concludes he has no idea how to package the python app he has, and gives up for now.
<DanielC> tar.gz :)
<jsgotangco> good night
<ogra> ciao jsgotangco 
<Yagisan> night jsgotangco
<DanielC> night
<Yagisan> DanielC: tar.gz isn't exactly how I'd like to distribute the software to Ubuntu users
<Yagisan> a .deb is far more useful
<DanielC> Yeah, I wasn't serious about tar.gz
<Yagisan> of course it would help if I was more familiar with python, how it is built etc, but I'm not
<DanielC> Do you have to use Python?
<ogra> Yagisan, no need to know python to package python apps (unless its a python module or something like that) :)
<Yagisan> DanielC: yes. The app was written before I joined the team. I was asked to try and make it into a .deb
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> just have a look at dh_install and the use of .install files in the debian dir
<lucasvo> ogra: does ltsp work with 1mb video card?
<ogra> i.e. look at the ltsp source :)
<ogra> lucasvo, only up to 800x600
<lucasvo> ogra: there was some guy asking because his screens only turned black->off 
<ogra> you can have it use 1024x786 if you force 16bit
<Yagisan> ogra: thanks. I'll give it a look.
<lucasvo> the monitors turned off after starting X
* Yagisan is feeling dumb today.
<Yagisan> ogra: what do I do about, eg .pyc files ?
<ogra> remove them ?
<Yagisan> ogra: hmm. that won't be a fun prerm then
<ogra> it really depends if you have only a single app and some glade file or something, or if your app needs some pieces bytecompiled in /lib/python/site-packages ...
<ogra> for the latter you should use setup.py (dont ask me how, i never had a need for it yet)
<Yagisan> ogra: that's fine. I don't know what I'm doing either. I usually run python ./snowberry.py
<Yagisan> ogra: my app is just a "simple" python/wxwidgets app. It was originally written for Win32 and OSX first though
<ogra> well, then dh_install should suffice 
<ogra> and deleting .pyc files in your clean target
<lucasvo> ahh, finally
<lucasvo> linux is running owns my hx4700 again
<highvoltage> so it turns out update-alternatives isn't nearly as complicated as i though :)
<ogra> :)
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<bgrah> hello everyone , the last 2 years i work with debian-edu on my servers  in school and i want to check out about your project  -- anybody teaching with edubuntu live at school ?
<dpt> Hello everyone
<dpt> i'm 16 year old colombian guy and i'm looking for a linux distribution for my school.
<dpt> and i'd lke to know somethings from you.
<pygi> bgrah, how may we help you? :)
<LaserJock> hi dpt and bgrah
<pygi> dpt, shoot
<dpt> we draw 2d and 3d using autocad
<dpt> we use an old version of autocad
<dpt> but i need some cad program that works as autocad or some way to run autocad with wine or something like that. If i get autocad working and i get all pcs connectes to the windows nt schools servers then all the computer will switch to windows.
<dpt> but i need to know if you know how to do that. I also like to use edubuntu because it includes by default many thing for the youngest kids in school. ANd i think that some desktop can be used instead of gnome, a lighter one for old pcs that we have at school.
<dpt> do you there's a solution for this issue?
<bgrah> pygi: i have installed ubuntu on 2 labtops and now  i want to try edubuntu as ltsp in my computer-lab and i want have contact with people who has it up and running ;)
<LaserJock> dpt: you can use XFCE for you desktop
<dpt> yeah, that's what i thought. It's nice and light
<LaserJock> dpt: have you looked at qcad at all for your CAD needs? I
<dpt> is qcad free? and does it have 3d?
<LaserJock> yes, and yes
<LaserJock> you can install it from Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I think it does 3D anyway
<LaserJock> I haven't really used it but I've been trying to find some technical drawing programs the last couple days
<dpt> i'll do apt-get install qacd
<dpt> that's all?
<dpt> yeah, i'm installing it right now
<HedgeMage> hi all
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<LaserJock> trying to get through my email :-)
<bddebian> Hello HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> :)
<dpt> no
<dpt> qcad won't work
<dpt> these programs are not nice, the do not have a nice gui and students won't like working with it
<EmxBA> hi anyone
<LaserJock> EmxBA: hi
<rwcitek> Hello, all.
<LaserJock> hi rwcitek 
<rwcitek> Anyone here tried to clone Edubuntu HDD installs?
<rwcitek> I ask because I installed Edubuntu to a drive on a fast machine, moved the drive to a slow machine, and then tried to boot Edubuntu.  Unfortunately, the kernel panics (something like VFS not found).  When I move the drive back to the fast machine, everything works just fine.
<rwcitek> LaserJock: hello.
<LaserJock> are the archs the same?
<rwcitek> LaserJock: both x86.  The fast machine is an AMD 2600 (or close) while the slow machine is Intel PIII 500 MHz.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: and is the disk on the same channel?
<highvoltage> (meant for rwcitek)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: how would I know ;-)
<rwcitek> highvoltage: yes, /dev/hda (master drive on primary IDE).
<rwcitek> The drive itself is jumpered for cable select.
<highvoltage> hmmm.
<rwcitek> Anyone now how I can capture or save the kernel panic?
<rwcitek> s/now/know/
<EmxBA> hi again
<EmxBA> highvoltage, hi
<EmxBA> where is edubuntu girl :D
<EmxBA> did she made a edubuntu wallpaper
<EmxBA> called edubuntu girl
<EmxBA> the one with girl...
<EmxBA> ?
<highvoltage> EmxBA: she wanted to come back last weekend, but then juliux disappeared. she's busy moving to his server :)
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> hi rbonishepheard
<EmxBA> robinshepheard :D
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: Hiya, How are you??
<EmxBA> good
<EmxBA> you?
<RobinShepheard> yeah not too bad at all, thanks
<EmxBA> ok
<RobinShepheard> how is the translation going, I am looking forward to reading you site
<EmxBA> good
<EmxBA> we are translating
<EmxBA> i already have lots of articles (almost 100)
<RobinShepheard> that is going to take some time then
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> a lot of time
<RobinShepheard> how many of you are there doing the translation??
<EmxBA> just me :D
<RobinShepheard> That is definately dedication
<EmxBA> well, yes
<RobinShepheard> I may try and learn another language to try and help with the translations, but as yet I can only speak english and a very little hungarian
<EmxBA> you shouldn't leanr bosnian
<EmxBA> it's too hard for english speakers, believe me
<RobinShepheard> I was told the same about hungarian
<EmxBA> and?
<RobinShepheard> some people told me it is supposed to be the hardest language to learn after chinese
<RobinShepheard> well after a few nights in a pub I can order most drinks there. I can also do basic polite conversation
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: greetings
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> ping HedgeMage 
<EmxBA> yes, I am very dedicated
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<EmxBA> if you learn chinese, i will buy you something :D
<cbx33> HedgeMage, update the site update the site
<cbx33> hehehe
<RobinShepheard> I have a lot of respect for you EmxBA. is that a promise
<EmxBA> tnx!
<HedgeMage> cbx33: working on a bad layout bug then I plan to
<cbx33> :D:D:D
<HedgeMage> somehow my left and right columns ended up on top of one another!
<cbx33> oh dear
<HedgeMage> I'm sure I just typoed something when I was working earlier
<RobinShepheard> due you need a second pair of eyes??
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<RobinShepheard> hiya LaserJock
<cbx33> got some updates to talk to you about on gisomount if you have a sec?
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: so how are you going to know if I can speak chinese  :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: k
<EmxBA> haha
<RobinShepheard> i can say what do you want in chinese but that is about it
<RobinShepheard> oh and a couple of insults
<cbx33> had a big panic today, you'll notice hat if you try to close down gisomount and it still has a mounted iso it'll bring up the dialog box asking you what you want to do.....problem is after a few seconds, gnome thinks it's crashed
<cbx33> but it's not a bug at our end
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I'm sure somebody in the zh LoCo could verify that you deserve your reward ;-)
<cbx33> it does it in gedit and openoffice too
<RobinShepheard> lol LaserJock
<LaserJock> cbx33: hmm
<cbx33> when a delete_event handler is hanging in limbo it believes it's crashed
<cbx33> even though that is the way pygtk recommend doing it
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: It doesn't do it for everybody, do you want me to test your app??
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, nah that's fine,
<RobinShepheard> my gedit it quite happy to be left with the do you want to be saved dialog for 5-10 mins
<cbx33> but I'd love you to test it when I do a release
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: no worries, just let me know when
<cbx33> thanky
<cbx33> LaserJock, I'm going to do a little restructuring of some of the functions too LaserJock 
<cbx33> whoops
<RobinShepheard> greetings pygi
<cbx33> taking bits out of one place and putting them in others
<spacey> meeting now?
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> are we in ubuntu-meeting?
<pygi> greeting people :)
<cbx33> of here?
<pygi> HedgeMage, poke?
<LaserJock> for what?
<cbx33> cookbook meeting
<HedgeMage> ooh, I thought it wasn't for another hour
<cbx33> fraid not HedgeMage :p
<cbx33> it's now :D
<spacey> 5 minutes right
<HedgeMage> sorry, I forgot that the clock in here is wrong
<EmxBA> ...
<cbx33> well yeh 5 minutes
<cbx33> argh where are we?
* pygi wonders if anyone wanna try new world class burning application ;)
<EmxBA> does anyone know what error 502 means
<EmxBA> in gftp
<cbx33> pygi, oooh
<cbx33> did you write it?
<pygi> cbx33, 'fcorse :P
<cbx33> python?
<pygi> C
<pygi> requires gnome 2.14.2 tho :-/
<cbx33> is that dapper?
<cbx33> or higher
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: look here http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/protocol/ftp.htm
<pygi> cbx33, dapper has 2.14.1 I think :-/
<EmxBA> tnx
<cbx33> then I'm afraid I'll have o give it a miss
<cbx33> at this time
<cbx33> will it be included with gnome?
<pygi> cbx33, I doubt, at least not for now
<cbx33> so where are we with the meeting location
<cbx33> ubuntu-meeint?
<pygi> here :P
<pygi> we could move there tho
<cbx33> I would suggest it
<cbx33> if it's free
<spacey> its free
<RobinShepheard> I am easy, I dont mind where it is
<cbx33> let's move
<cbx33> then we get logs
<RobinShepheard> ubuntu-mmeting has 75 users at the mo
<pygi> HedgeMage, poke? :)
<HedgeMage> I'm here
<pygi> oh, great, you are alive :)
<cbx33> come on pygi 
<cbx33> join the meeting :p
<pygi> joy :P
<LaserJock> looks more like a casual chat over there :-)
<EmxBA> hi again
<EmxBA> my connection blew
<EmxBA> hi seveas
<EmxBA> are you the one i think you are
<Seveas> depends on who you think I am
<pygi> bleh :)
<pygi> Hey Seveas, long time no see ;)
<EmxBA> you are on channels #ubuntu-classroom #ubuntu-mirrors #supybot #kubuntu-devel #ubuntu-science #xubuntu @#ubuntu-bugbot #edubuntu #ubuntu+1 #ubuntu-locoteams #nx #ubuntu-desktop #ubuntu-bugs #django #freenode-groups +#freenode-social #launchpad #kubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic #ubuntu-doc #ubuntu-meeting #ubuntu-xgl #ubuntu-motu #ubuntu-devel #Ubuntu-NL #ubuntu 
<EmxBA> i know who are you
<EmxBA> the one which said "please be patience" on dapper days, 1st june on #ubuntu
<EmxBA> right
<Seveas> heh, yeah
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> nice to see you seveas
<EmxBA> you are probably busy right now on all those channels 
<Amaranth> Seveas: how goes ubotu-ng?
<Seveas> Amaranth, slowly but steadily
<lucasvo> Seveas: I have a feauturerequest for ubotu-ng: it should automatically rewrite the wikiurls to wiki.edubuntu.org in this channel :P
<Amaranth> Seveas: can i help with anything?
<Seveas> Amaranth, yeah, when it's finished i am NOT going to do an import but review all factoids
<Seveas> I defintely can use some help with that
<EmxBA> seveas, can i introduce myself
<Burgwork> Seveas, I can help, depending on timeframe
<Amaranth> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> Burgwork, timeframe is simple: from the time ubotu-ng is finished to the time all factoids are entered 
<Seveas> EmxBA, what do you mean?
<bluekuja> EmxBA: hello, you pinged me before?
<EmxBA>  bluekuja: no
<EmxBA> but i can
<EmxBA> :D
<bluekuja> EmxBA: if you need anything, just tell me
<bluekuja> ;)
<EmxBA> bluekuja: tnx!
<bluekuja> np man
<Burgwork> Seveas, ok, I mention that, because I am going to be out of town the next few weeks
<EmxBA> seveas, can you introduce yourself
<EmxBA> i know you are...important
<Seveas> lol, I'm not 
<Seveas> EmxBA, http://launchpad.net/people/dennis
<bluekuja> EmxBA: Seveas is one of the most loved ubuntu members
<EmxBA> mine is http://launchpad.net/people/emxba
<EmxBA> i know , bluekuja
<bluekuja> EmxBA: not yet ubuntero?
<lucasvo> bluekuja: why should one be a ubuntero?
<lucasvo> does it help the community in any way?
<bluekuja> lucasvo: code of conduct
<lucasvo> bluekuja: ?
<bluekuja> lucasvo: do you know what code of conduct is?
<bluekuja> i hope yes
<lucasvo> bluekuja: yes I do
<lucasvo> I even signed it
<bluekuja> ok perfect
<EmxBA> bluekuja: i dunno what is that
<EmxBA> please, explaint
<EmxBA> *explain
<bluekuja> I give you some links
<EmxBA> ok
<lucasvo> bluekuja: but why do you point me out to this?
<bluekuja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey
<bluekuja> this is a nice wiki page
<bluekuja> seveas did it, i think
<EmxBA> bluekuja: about ubuntutero?
<EmxBA> i suppose no
<Seveas> bluekuja, I started it
<Seveas> dunno if it's been edited a lot
<bluekuja> oh ok great
<bluekuja> EmxBA: follow that guide to sign the CoC
<lucasvo> bluekuja: did I violate the CoC in any way with my statement?
<bluekuja> and become ubuntero
<bluekuja> lucasvo: well you said that it's not important
<bluekuja> to sign it
<lucasvo> bluekuja: sorry, in that case I misunderstood the term ubuntero
<bluekuja> and that's not nice
<lucasvo> ubuntero only means that one signed the CoC?
<EmxBA>  CoC?
<lucasvo> EmxBA: code of conduct
<lucasvo> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<Seveas> CoC is a rather unfortunate abbreviation
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> yeah, an ubuntero is someone that have read, accepted and signed the CoC
<EmxBA> ohh...ok
<lucasvo> bluekuja: I mistook ubuntero with ubuntu member sorry
<EmxBA> i should read this before
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> lucasvo: np 
<EmxBA> i am going to become ubuntutero
<EmxBA> of course
<bluekuja> EmxBA: it's a first step
<bluekuja> to start your contributions
<bluekuja> in the Ubuntu world
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> i have already translated few things
<EmxBA> and helped in solving a one bug :D
<bluekuja> when you have read it, just follow that wiki page
<bluekuja> it's well done, easy to understand and linear
<bluekuja> ;)
<EmxBA> tnx
<bluekuja> EmxBA: np, and thanks for helping 
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> EmxBA: if you need help, just ask herer
<bluekuja> *here
<bluekuja> someone will read and answer you as soon as possible
<EmxBA> i know who you are
<EmxBA> on of the greatest contributor for ubuntu
<bluekuja> EmxBA: thanks, when i started everyone helped me, so i want to help you how much i can
<bluekuja> ;)
<EmxBA> i did that too on #ubuntu
<bluekuja> well thats great :)
<bluekuja> where are you from?
<EmxBA> bosnia 
<EmxBA> that's in south east europe
<bluekuja> oh nice
<bluekuja> i'm italian
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> do you believe in bosnian pyramids :D
<lucasvo> bluekuja: did the italians win?
<bluekuja> lucasvo: of course
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> 2-0
<lucasvo> ahh
<lucasvo> too bad
<bluekuja> hehe
<lucasvo> Ghana is cool
<EmxBA> bluekuja: do you :D
<bluekuja> EmxBA: remember to write a wiki page, where you introduce yourself to the community
<bluekuja> update it with all of your contributions
<EmxBA> bluekuja: ok
<bluekuja> EmxBA: good luck, if you need anything we're here
<EmxBA> bluekuja: tnx really
<EmxBA> i appreciate this
<bluekuja> EmxBA: np, happy to help you
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> bluekuja: so how can i sign CoC
<bluekuja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey
<bluekuja> all infos are here
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> ;)
<EmxBA> tnx bluekujea
<EmxBA> bluekuja
<EmxBA> you and highvoltage are the best chatters on #edubuntu
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> and Edubuntu Girl of course
<EmxBA> despite i haven't met her 
<bluekuja> EmxBA: hehe, thanks :D
<EmxBA> when does she visit #edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: ping
<bluekuja> you have to ask it to jonathan(highvoltage)
<lucasvo> EmxBA: she has to wait untill she can move into her new home, a server from ubuntuusers.de
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: pong
<EmxBA> highvoltage!
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I love bzr, but it just doesn't seem to work as well with documentation work flow (from the doc teams experience anyway)
<lucasvo> but highvoltage didn't have enough time to help her move in
<EmxBA> wake up :D
<EmxBA> when does Edubuntu Girl comes here
<EmxBA> in which time :D
<bluekuja> EmxBA: is sleeping now, i think
<RobinShepheard> lol, sorry just a quick question, I applied for membership to the edubuntu cookbook team a while ago, am I likely to be made a member
<RobinShepheard> can I contribute if I am not a member??
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: you can
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: just ping somebody in irc here and ask him to approve you :)
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: people can almost always contribute to any part of Ubuntu, it's just a matter of how big of a pain in the butt it is ;-)
<RobinShepheard> ok, just thought I would check as I wasn't sure as it was discussed to just let authors have access
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i did! i just didn't catch juliux this weekend. he owes me a database for e-g :)
<bluekuja> oh jonathan, hello
<highvoltage> hello bluekuja 
<highvoltage> how are you doing?
<EmxBA> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi EmxBA 
<EmxBA> :D
<bluekuja> i'm really good jonathan, I'm really happy in this period
<highvoltage> sorry if i don't make much sense tonight. a bit tired this side...
<highvoltage> bluekuja: great! :)
<bluekuja> i'm receiving a lot of email with people that say me " we are installing edubuntu in our school"
<bluekuja> and thats a great thing
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> people in italy?
<EmxBA> this GNUPG thing is very boting
<EmxBA> *bornig
<EmxBA> *boring
* RobinShepheard waves good bye
<highvoltage> bye RobinShepheard!
<RobinShepheard> I have to go find some beauty sllep, night all
<highvoltage> EmxBA: yes, security can be very boring :)
<RobinShepheard> *sleep even
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> not that
<EmxBA> just this CoC thing...
<bluekuja> highvoltage: yes, a lot of people
<bluekuja> forums, ml and irc is helping diffusion a lot
<highvoltage> bluekuja: any plans for next year?
<bluekuja> highvoltage: great meeting in italy of course :D
<highvoltage> :D
<bluekuja> and i want you here
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: thanks for the input... I think spacey and lucasvo are the only ones who've shown interest in bzr... I'm going to encourage them to make a case for it for edgy+1 if they feel strongly, but we're on too tight a deadline IMHO for everyone to learn bzr
<bluekuja> you can come to my home for a week, that's not a problem
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: lets just say, I pushed to get the doc team to use bzr (set up a bzr copy of the svn and everything) and we are still going to be using svn for edgy ;-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: heh
<bluekuja> highvoltage: which month would be great for you?
<EmxBA> what is caff
<EmxBA> i don't have it installed
<EmxBA> i need it for CoC
<bluekuja> caff?
<EmxBA> yeah
<EmxBA> no 
<EmxBA> i don't need it, sorr
<EmxBA> *sorry
<bluekuja> lol ok
<EmxBA> but i go to https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1/+sign
<EmxBA> and i got problem "no public key"
<EmxBA> help please
<bluekuja> have you uploaded the key?
<EmxBA> how should i do that?
<bluekuja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey#head-bededb02c720438d994d3320ae240c11887cf2cc
#edubuntu 2006-06-13
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> what should i do now?
<EmxBA> bluekuja, could you be faster please
<EmxBA> i need help RIGHT now
<EmxBA> :-) really
<EmxBA> i've sent my key to ubuntu server with command written there
<bluekuja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey#head-b54d61303895f1d048333715a2a372923aad22a8
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> again it says "No public key"
<EmxBA> in UbuntuCodeOfConduct.txt.asc
<LaserJock> you sure you have a key?
<LaserJock> gpg --list-keys
<bluekuja> LaserJock: :D
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> i do
<EmxBA> pub   1024D/A26B8018 2006-06-12
<EmxBA> uid                  Emir Beganovic <emx@linux.org.ba>
<EmxBA> sub   2048g/BDE8CF11 2006-06-12
<EmxBA> pub   2048R/E452E3F5 2006-06-12
<EmxBA> uid                  Emir Beganovic <emx@linux.org.ba>
<LaserJock> and did you put your gpg key in LP
<EmxBA> LP?
<LaserJock> launchpad
<EmxBA> where right
<EmxBA> into https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1/+sign ?
<LaserJock> no
<EmxBA> than where?
<LaserJock> I'm saying at your LP page
<EmxBA> oh...
<EmxBA> ok
<LaserJock> there is a link on the left to add your gpg key
<EmxBA> just my gpg key
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> on OpenGPG keys?
<LaserJock> yeah
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> and gow can i decrypct message
<bluekuja> pygi: mario!!!
<HedgeMage> bluekuja: he went away :(
<HedgeMage> oh he's back!
* HedgeMage pounces pygi 
<EmxBA> "Please paste a clear-signed copy of the following phrase into the text box below."
<HedgeMage> sorry, I'm a little slow today
<EmxBA> which phrase
<EmxBA> ?
<pygi> hey Andrea, hey Susan
<EmxBA> anyone?
<pygi> how are you? :)
<EmxBA> can anyone help me, please
<bluekuja> really good mario, you?
<EmxBA> bluekujea?
<EmxBA> bluekuja?
<bluekuja> EmxBA: whats the problem?
<EmxBA>  "Please paste a clear-signed copy of the following phrase into the text box below."
<pygi> bluekuja, I am great, thanks for asking ;)
<EmxBA> which phrase exactly
<bluekuja> pygi: :)
<pygi> EmxBA, the signed copy of CoC
<bluekuja> yep
<EmxBA> where is that signed copy 
<pygi> bluekuja, I'll have a package ready for you for "Extras" 
<bluekuja> you have to sign it
<EmxBA> i signed it
<EmxBA> with one command
<bluekuja> pygi: great!!
<pygi> worlds "most bad" burning application ever :P
<bluekuja> i'm waiting it
<EmxBA> which command
<bluekuja> oh nice 
<pygi> HedgeMage, just you pounce :P
<bluekuja> I'll request branches for fc-4 and fc-3 too
<bluekuja> (fc-5 included)
<EmxBA> bluekuja: help me please
<EmxBA> Launchpad could not verify your signature: No public key!
<EmxBA> !
<ubotu> Some people juggle geese. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, EmxBA
<pygi> EmxBA, you need to sync it with servers
<pygi> any
<EmxBA> which command
<pygi> EmxBA, bleh, use "seahorse" to do it
<pygi> sudo apt-get install seahorse
<pygi> bluekuja, bonefire, if you ever heard of that =P
<pygi> bonfire*
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> pygi: mmm.... i dont remember that name, have you got an homepage for it?
<EmxBA> i already installed it
<EmxBA> what should i do now?
<pygi> bluekuja, yes, but it's bad. so rather not show :P
<bluekuja> :D ok
<pygi> EmxBA, you can click "Publish keys" or something simmilar :P
<pygi> bluekuja, working on better site tho
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> and what now?
<bluekuja> pygi: great, when final website release is out tell me
<pygi> EmxBA, now wait half an hour :P
<EmxBA> really
<EmxBA> ?
<pygi> yes :P
<pygi> bluekuja, http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158
<pygi> new version will be out tommorow
<pygi> (or today while we'r at it :) )
<EmxBA> and after half an hour
<EmxBA> then what?
<pygi> EmxBA, then you paste signed copy
<EmxBA> and where do i get it
<EmxBA> pygi, where do you live
<LaserJock> EmxBA: you make it
<EmxBA> mario, pricaj hrvatski :D
<EmxBA> idi na privatne :D
<pygi> EmxBA, bleh, stop talking non-english language in this channel :P
<EmxBA> :P
<bluekuja> pygi: great application, 
<EmxBA> do not laugh me :D
<bluekuja> lets move to it
<bluekuja> hehe
<EmxBA> :D
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh, current version is piece of junk :P
<bluekuja> :D screenshoots are realllly cool
<bluekuja> :)
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh, the UI is greatest part of the junk in the app :P
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> well that's something that i like a lot
<bluekuja> ^^
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh, 0.3.9 changed quite a lot in UI
<pygi> (not that much actually :P)
<bluekuja> do you will provide me an already done package?
<bluekuja> if not i'll do it
<pygi> yup, already done package
<bluekuja> oh ok perfect
<bluekuja> ;)
<bluekuja> provide me .spec file, and src.rpm
<pygi> If it's bad, please feel free to change it :P
<pygi> bleh, what? I thought of providing just pure rpm :)
<bluekuja> hehe, i'll review it
<pygi> oki, so both spec and src.rpm
<bluekuja> yeah, i don't need rpm
<bluekuja> only spec and src
<pygi> oki :)
<bluekuja> ;)
<pygi> the "release script" is building packages for me :P
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> rpmlint it after build
<pygi> really, I wrote a script we use for test building with all possible configure options, and build .deb and .rpm :)
<bluekuja> oh cool
<bluekuja> anyway remember to rpmlint, if it's clean I'll move to mock review
<pygi> oki, whatever rpmlint is :P :)
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> just rpmfind for it
<pygi> bleh :)
<pygi> and sadly, ubuntu people aren't able to run bonfire :(
<bluekuja> oh y?
<pygi> requires gnome 2.14.2 ;-/
<bluekuja> pygi: can you make it for this thursday?
<pygi> what? package?
<bluekuja> i'll be away for one week
<bluekuja> yeah
<pygi> package will be ready tommorow
<bluekuja> great
<bluekuja> so it will be available in yum for wednesday, thursday
<bluekuja> ping me tomorrow
<bluekuja> not in the evening/night
<pygi> oki :)
<bluekuja> tnx :)
<pygi> no, thank you ;)
<bluekuja> np mario :)
<bluekuja> mhz is with us
<pygi> hey mhz ;)
<pygi> bluekuja, ok, so I stop bothering you now :P
<bluekuja> pygi: np :) , I'm here if you need something
<pygi> bluekuja, don't you sleep? :P
* bluekuja never sleeps
<mhz> bluekuja: hey, sorry guys... today is holiday... family stuff :(
<bluekuja> pygi: anyway I'm really tired now
<bluekuja> mhz: hello!!
<bluekuja> np man
<bluekuja> pygi: summer is started, parties too
<pygi> bluekuja, hehe :)
<bluekuja> so every night we return at six o'clock
<bluekuja> in the morning 
<bluekuja> ^^
<mhz> pygi: hi
<pygi> hey hey mhz ;)
<pygi> enjoy your holiday :P
<pygi> bluekuja, which is nice :P
<mhz> bluekuja: not healthy
<bluekuja> mhz: I know but i can't say no to girls
<bluekuja> what do you guys think?
<bluekuja> :D
<mhz> bluekuja: the more you say no to girls, the more they want you
<bluekuja> mhz: lol, thats true
<bluekuja> omg, spider near keyboard
<bluekuja> one moment  tnx
<LaserJock> bah, I'm so boring, I go to bed ~11:00pm and get up about ~8:00pm and go to school
<LaserJock> lol, 8:00am I mean
<pygi> LaserJock, bleh :P
<bluekuja> LaserJock: nice :D
* bluekuja restarts spider fight
<LaserJock> bluekuja: don't let it win :-)
<bluekuja> LaserJock: lol, he's hiding in the dark
<LaserJock> coward
<mhz> LaserJock: well, not boring, at all. It is what you do what really counts, doesn't matter who with or where
<bluekuja> LaserJock: i have to find it, i don't want to sleep with him
<bluekuja> ^^
<LaserJock> well, I'm boring all the way around, Paris will be the most exciting thing I've done in a long time
<bluekuja> LaserJock: no parties for you?
<LaserJock> nope
<mhz> LaserJock: I hardly ever go out of the house.. and I don't have a boring life. Actually, I could easily say I do much more stuff than many people around me.
<LaserJock> I'm too busy working on Ubuntu and doing research and working on the house and hanging out with my wife to party
<bluekuja> LaserJock: i forgot that you're married
<bluekuja> ^^
<LaserJock> yeah, I'd be working on Ubuntu 24x7 if I wasn't married :-)
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> i go 
<bluekuja> cya pygi, LaserJock ,mhz
<bluekuja> see you all tomorrow
<pygi> bye bluekuja, enjoy ;)
<bluekuja> (pygi ping me when done)
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> ciao all
<Burgwork> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<bddebian> Heya Burgwork
<pygi> hey Burgwork, bddebian 
<mhz> nn bluekuja 
<mhz> LaserJock: see? very much to do
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<pygi> laters all ;)
<bddebian> Bye pygi
<LaserJock> mhz: but still boring
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<mhz> LaserJock: well, I am sorry you feel it is boring. Maybe you have to re-love the things you do, those small details.
<mhz> ;)
<LaserJock> yes, words of wisdom there mhz 
<mhz> LaserJock: hehe, well, I am not trying to bug you on the topic, but I've been married twice, and 1 thing I really got after those experiences is that it is up to us to love what we do. Else, the 1st feeling we get... is that we have a boring life compared to the rest of  people. However, we do have many things they do not. And, at least me, fell very well with the hours I dedicate to stuff like Edubuntu, social work, my kids, and poker :D
<HedgeMage> Okay, for anyone who's interested, TT really needs some attention so I'm taking him down to the pool.  I promise I'll get the Edubuntu Cookbook meeting notes done ASAP upon our return
* HedgeMage waves
* HedgeMage leaves
* HedgeMage peeks in
<jsgotangco> hi
<HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<jsgotangco> boring tuesday at work
<HedgeMage> heh
<CuriousG> does anyone know how to edit the logout menu items?
<CuriousG> I need to remove hibernate
<HedgeMage> nope, I don't... ogra or someone probably will, though
<CuriousG> The product isn't usable if regular users can go into hibernation and basically turn off the server.
<HedgeMage> ewww
<HedgeMage> hang on a sec
<HedgeMage> oh darn, I forgot... don't have my edubuntu box here (out for repairs) so I can't look :(
<HedgeMage> there's got to be a way though
<CuriousG> I should hope so.
<CuriousG> I was told by someone else that it wasn't in his beta 2 install.
<CuriousG> So somewhere along the line, they put that in there.
<HedgeMage> that's really odd... have you asked on the mailing list yet?  if you can't wait around for someone knowledgeable in here to wake up, that's probably your best bet.
<LaserJock> I just saw an email on the ML asking about it
<HedgeMage> I *almost* have hubby convinced that it would be a good idea for him to give up his desktop computer for me to load Edubuntu for TT (and to use as a dedicated test box)
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<HedgeMage> Well, he got a new laptop that's more powerful (though the desktop is still great... if we give it to TT I may steal my graphics card back, though)
* HedgeMage notes there's an extra "though" in that sentence
<HedgeMage> oops
<CuriousG> No I haven't asked but someone asked a similar question about hibernate on the 6th.  No response.
<jsgotangco> hmm
* jsgotangco wonders if pessulus can remove that
<jsgotangco> well you can disable the logout menu with pessulus
<CuriousG> I don't need logout disabled but the hibernate option under logout
<Amaranth> whew
<Amaranth> i'm pretty sure i just sucessfully ported this bayesian library to sqlite
<Amaranth> now i just need to work on an HTML tokenizer
<LaserJock> \o/
<Amaranth> \o/ indeed :)
<Amaranth> once i get the tokenizer done i basically have the actual proxy bits done
<Amaranth> so i just have to work on the pygtk and web frontends
<LaserJock> way cool
<Amaranth> yeah
<LaserJock> and then your summer will be done! ;-)
<Amaranth> and, bonus, i know how a 'Robinson-Fisher bayesian spam detection algorithm' works
<Amaranth> :P
<Amaranth> it'd be nice to finish early
<bimberi> didn't willow do any of these things?
<Amaranth> bimberi: willow was some nasty code and had license issues
<bimberi> ah
<Amaranth> i still don't know why it wanted to use pam
<bimberi> say no more
<Amaranth> heh
<bimberi> do you have a name yet?
<Amaranth> nope
<LaserJock> smeg? ;-)
<Amaranth> haha
<Amaranth> you're not the first one to say that, actually
<Amaranth> well, you might have been first but there were others :P
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> kryten
<bimberi> he's a cleaning robot after all
<bimberi> blah - http://sourceforge.net/projects/kryten/
<LaserJock> if there was a French word for spam...
<LaserJock> although maybe you should go German this time or something
* HedgeMage peeks in
<LaserJock> and everybody scatters
<HedgeMage> lol
* Amaranth is talking about SafetyBoat
* HedgeMage pounces and cuddles cbx33 
<cbx33> what have I done?
* cbx33 looks worried :p
<jsgotangco> ?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<cbx33> HedgeMage, did you get my mail then?
<HedgeMage> nope, don't think so
* HedgeMage checks
<HedgeMage> cbx33: not yet, when did you send it?
<cbx33> a few mins ago
<cbx33> titled Mock Logo
<HedgeMage> hmmm
* HedgeMage checks again
<HedgeMage> nope, but now I'm just waiting for my hosting provider people to notice I'm checking every 5 seconds and /msg me to ask wtf is up :P
* HedgeMage bounces
<HedgeMage> (in my chair, not my email)
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: answering your mail: You can create PDF files from docbook for printing
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: Firefox can read docbook if it has a correct XSL
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: I think Yelp has docbook support as well
<lucasvo> I'll write an email about it.
<lucasvo> got to go to school now
<jsgotangco> yelp reads docbook natively
<jsgotangco> and renders it with its own stylesheets
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> ttyl lucasvo 
<crimsun_> isn't conglomerate a docbook-styled (among others) editor?
<jsgotangco> yes but not too stable
<crimsun_> qemacs has a docbook mode
<cbx33> right I gotta go eat....brb
* cbx33 marvels, pressing the eject button actually ejects the cd now :D amazing
<spacey> dutch weather really sucks
<spacey> today 33 degrees (yay!)
<spacey> tomorrow 20 :)
<HedgeMage> lol
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: did you catch my post?
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: yep, just read it :)
<spacey> HedgeMage: nice go @ list
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: you made good points... if someone can show me a WYSIWYG docbook editor that is newbie friendly (someone posted some suggestions, I'll check them out before the meeting if I have time) I'm sold.
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: we are looking at moin-->docbook
<Burgundavia> there is a Fedora SoC project doing this
* HedgeMage nods
<Burgundavia> latex has the huge issue that it makes it harder to integrate with the rest of teh Ubuntu documentation
<Burgundavia> you cannot use our build chain, our translation production, etc.
<HedgeMage> yeah, but when that was the only thing going for docbook, that wasn't enough. You and others have made a larger case for it
<HedgeMage> (it makes me glad we tabled the issue and set debate loose on the mailing list)
<HedgeMage> hi JaneW :)
<JaneW> hey HedgeMage 
<jsgotangco> conglomerate
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: whomever mentioned that earlier said it's not very stable.  I haven't tried it yet, though. have you used it much?
* HedgeMage looks up
<HedgeMage> hey, *you're* the one who said it's not stable :P
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: I agree with HedgeMage that conglomerate is no good
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: apparently, so does jsgotangco... scroll up to about an hour ago 
<Burgundavia> regardless, I see the gui editing of docbook as not a huge issue currently
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: I'm just trying to give us as many avenues to recruit new docpeople as possible.  If Edgy goes like Dapper did, I don't think we'll be done enough for print until another release down the road at least.
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: we had lots of volunteers, then most bailed.
<Burgundavia> most volunteers bailing is a symptom of volunteers, not likely of the technology
<Burgundavia> most of the volunteers on the wiki bail too
<HedgeMage> I didn't mean it was due to the technology, I just meant that if volunteers don't have to be willing do do markup by hand, we have a bigger pool to recruit from.
<HedgeMage> and, considering the fact that they often bail out, the more we start with the better
<Burgundavia> true
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> we need clones
<Burgundavia> you also want committed people, who will look through an unclear technology
* spacey just watched star wars ep2 last week
<spacey> can you imagine such a clone army of oss devs =)
<Burgundavia> problem is, we grow through diversity
<HedgeMage> yes, but, there *has* to be room in every project for people with only user-level technical knowledge to get their feet wet and feel that they've accomplished something... and documentation is usually it.  Often, if you can just get them to wade in they will pick up momentum and want to do and learn more.  Of course, if they think there are sharks in the water, they'll stay on the beach.
<Burgundavia> cookie cutter solutions is what the current stuff is
<Burgundavia> then those people who just want their feet wet can play in your wiki
<spacey> in the end you need people how know their stuff
<HedgeMage> spacey: I agree, I just think that if we catch 'em while they're just wading in and keep them interested, we'll get first pick of the cool people ;)
<Burgundavia> people will come and go
* HedgeMage nods
<Burgundavia> hence why you should latch yourself onto an existing project with existing tools
<Burgundavia> the doc team is unlikely to go anywhere
<HedgeMage> they're also unlikely to be too interested in what edubuntu is doing :P  I do agree that docbook is looking like the better solution now.  It was just under-represented at the meeting, I think
<Burgundavia> actually, there is no sane reason to seperate out the partner projects in terms of docs
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep
<HedgeMage> sweet dreams, corey, and thanks for the info
<jsgotangco> the current toolchain used isn't that hard really
<jsgotangco> it could also be done on bzr, but its not really good on structured text
<HedgeMage> What I know about bzr could fill a thimble :P
<jsgotangco> its not hard
<HedgeMage> that said, like anything else, I'd learn it if need be
<HedgeMage> at the meeting, though, no one seemed to be pushing it
<jsgotangco> sorry i wasn;t there i was sleeping
<spacey> sleeping is really important jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> ;)
<spacey> lack of meetings won't get you killed:)
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: sleep? what's that?
<HedgeMage> :P
<Amaranth> weird bug
<Amaranth> my idle handlers only gets called once inside my gobject mainloop
* Amaranth stupid
<Amaranth> forgot return True
<pygi> hey hey people ;)
<HedgeMage> hey, pygi 
<HedgeMage> pygi: have time for a quick /msg before I flee to bed for some shut-eye
<HedgeMage> ?
<pygi> yes, sure
<Amaranth> pygi: i'm an HTML tokenizer and dbus interface away from the proxy part being done :)
<pygi> Amaranth, heh, good progress ;)
<cbx33> howz it all going
<cbx33> pygi that issue we were having with python doesn't happen on my laptop
<HedgeMage> cbx33: :D
<cbx33> which is where I do all my dev at the mo
<cbx33> which is probably why I never noticed it before
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<Amaranth> hmm
<cbx33> hey Amaranth 
<cbx33> howz the SoC
<Amaranth> com.realistanew.WillowNG or com.ubuntu.WillowNG?
<Amaranth> still need anew name :P
<cbx33> I thought of a few
<pygi> cbx33, great ;)
<cbx33> lemme dig them out
<Amaranth> cbx33: <Amaranth> pygi: i'm an HTML tokenizer and dbus interface away from the proxy part being done :)
<cbx33> ooooh nice
<cbx33> you clever guy
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> so, for the dbus interface, which is better: com.realistanew.WillowNG or com.ubuntu.WillowNG?
* cbx33 wishes he had actually done computing at Uni, instead of acoustical engineering
<Amaranth> cbx33: I've had one year of a tech school that I slept through. ;)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> I have my degree
<cbx33> but in acoustical engineering, which is just not wanted anywhere
<Amaranth> com.ubuntu.WIllowNG it is
* Amaranth should get a new name first though
<Amaranth> this is going to repeat the name about 10 times
<cbx33> give me a better decription of what the program will do
<cbx33> I'll try and come up with a name
<Amaranth> it's a content filtering proxy
<Amaranth> that's the most exact description possible
<Amaranth> well, without getting into technical details
<cbx33> ok
<HedgeMage> cbx33: acoustical engineering? like making pretty places to sing? (i.e. with great acoustics) stuff like that?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: indeed
<HedgeMage> cbx33: heh neat
<cbx33> amongst other things like automotive engineering
<cbx33> fluid dynamics
<cbx33> vibration
<Amaranth> :(
<Amaranth> I had to switch back to the threaded server.
<Amaranth> So it could potentially use like 10MB RAM and never give it back.
<cbx33> :(
<Amaranth> Even if it only used 10MB once, for a couple seconds.
<Amaranth> But if I fork I can't use sqlite
<Amaranth> or any other small sane system for storing things
<k31th> Bind or NSD ?
<Amaranth> you want me to store my bayesian training info in bind? :P
<k31th> nooo
<k31th> :p
<Amaranth> all i know about bind is this: Run.
<k31th> BIND = Buggy Internet Name Deamon 
<spacey> why can't you use sqlite when you fork? 
<spacey> only one proces can write to it ?
<Amaranth> spacey: correct
<Amaranth> only one thread even
<Amaranth> but with threads i can use the glib mainloop to break out into the main thread to work with sqlite
<spacey> can't you use some IPC?
<spacey> to communicate with the sqlite abled threat
<spacey> thread even
<Amaranth> it's easier this way
<Amaranth> btw, how does "viridian" sound?
* HedgeMage contemplates sleep
<spacey> terrible :)
<spacey> what does it mean?
<HedgeMage> it's a color
<cbx33> Metastasize
<spacey> oh
<cbx33> it means: to filter
<spacey> pick an african word for it :P
<Amaranth> i could use "verdigris" instead ;)
* cbx33 throws in the stupid names
<cbx33> proxifilt
<Amaranth> heh
<spacey> sounds like a medicine
<Amaranth> metastasize is too...sciency
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> WebPurify] 
<Amaranth> i'm sure that's taken
<Amaranth> i want a word that either means nothing or is rare
<cbx33> k
<cbx33> I'm, on it
<pygi> Amaranth, "trinity"
<spacey> Amaranth: take a random african word =)
<spacey> trinity--
* pygi used that for one of his games engine :P
<pygi> bleh :P
<Amaranth> pygi: That's either geeky or religious. :P
<HedgeMage> Amaranth: I know Latin... what are we naming?
<cbx33> Sylva
<cbx33> a title for a treatise on trees
<Amaranth> HedgeMage: a content filtering proxy
<pygi> Amaranth, none of that :P
<spacey> Amaranth: name it after your girlfriend or something :)
<Amaranth> HedgeMage: doesn't have to have anything to do with what it does though
* HedgeMage is full of obscure Latin terms
* cbx33 named his degree project after his wife
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that is insanely cute
<Amaranth> spacey: i think she'd get pissed, seeing how we haven't seen each other in about 9 months :P
<cbx33> LISA - Linearly Interpolated Spectrographic Analysis
<spacey> Amaranth: ouch
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/thesis - if anyone is interested
<spacey> Amaranth: name it after your mother?:P
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> but then i need a new acronym for lisa :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: what is latin for filter
<cbx33> Lengthy Incision of Stateful Abstracts
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> filter? not sure... hmm
<Amaranth> spurcamen, sordes, purgamentum, inquinamentum, fimus, feculentia
<Amaranth> one of those
<HedgeMage> Amaranth: perseus.tufts.edu has lexica of a number of classical languages, do a search
<Amaranth> (that's filter)
<Amaranth> sordes? :)
<spacey> HedgeMage: link is dead
<Amaranth> been up close to 24 hours and coding for most of them
<Amaranth> whee
<cbx33> zenana
<Amaranth> this is good though, because i probably won't do much for a week now ;)
<Amaranth> clausus
<HedgeMage> spacey: let me check I may have typoed it
<Amaranth> ?
<HedgeMage> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/
<HedgeMage> there we go
<Amaranth> oh, clausus means closed
<JaneW> http://www.frappr.com/edubuntu
<spacey> JaneW: add me :P
<spacey> JaneW: i like the map on ubuntu-nl more
<jsgotangco> hmm i think i got me a visa
<spacey> http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/ubuntu-nl/kaart
<jsgotangco> they called me up and asked to come back tomorrow with my travel insurance and stuff
<Amaranth> i could just be a jerk and call it "willow" :)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you have mail
<spacey> Amaranth: Willow-NG to be even more orginal
<cbx33> aeolian
<JaneW> spacey: checking
<cbx33> greek god of the winds
<pygi> hey hey JaneW 
<cbx33> chorine - a chorus girl
<cbx33> Hi JaneW 
<HedgeMage> hi JaneW 
<cbx33> mimesis
<cbx33> what about 
<cbx33> bezoar    (buh-zore') n. a hard indigestible mass of material,
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide also quite nice
<HedgeMage> cbx33: btw, sorry about before... I didn't get your email b/c somehow I'd emailed you from my army account and their servers suck... I emailed you from my home (reliable) email this time
<spacey> JaneW: +53.2365 +6.5445 "spacey" # HermanBos, Groningen, The Netherlands
<cbx33> vavasor    (vav'-uh-sore) n. a feudal vassal ranking just below a baron.
<spacey> at leas tyou can add me :)
<HedgeMage> the one to the army email came through, it just takes forever.
<Amaranth> cbx33: i kind of like that last one
<Amaranth> vavasor
* HedgeMage cuddles cbx33 to get his attention
<Amaranth> now to slightly change it so it's not the same word :)
* cbx33 cuddles HedgeMage 
<cbx33> sorry HedgeMage 
<Amaranth> vovisar
<Amaranth> no, that stinks
<HedgeMage> cbx33: np, just wanted to make sure the email made it through okay before I go to bed
<spacey> i'm off to the office, bbl
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> nn HedgeMage 
<cbx33> tripsis    (trip'-siss) n. trituration; also, the process of shampooing. [from Greek tribein "to rub"] .
<HedgeMage> cbx33: got it then?
<cbx33> alegar    (ail'-uh-gar) n. sour ale; the acid of ale; vinegar resulting from the fermentation of ale.
<cbx33> just checking now
<cbx33> got it
<HedgeMage> cbx33: cool.  I'll owe you some chocolate or some sort of big favor after this :)
<cbx33> orotund    (or'-uh-tund) adj. 1: marked by fullness, strength and clarity or sound; sonorous. 2: pompous; bombastic.
<cbx33> HedgeMage: only if it's up to standard
<HedgeMage> hehe
* HedgeMage smooches cbx33 and goes to sleep so the CSS will stop spinning
<Amaranth> cbx33: can you email all this to alleykat@gmail.com please?
<cbx33> numen    (n(y)oo'-men) n. a spiritual force or influence often identified with a natural object, phenomenon or locality (pl. numina).
<Amaranth> numen
<cbx33> Amaranth: heheh
<Amaranth> that's cool
<cbx33> yeh I thought so
<Amaranth> zzz
<Amaranth> thanks
<pygi> bluekuja, poke? :)
<EmxBA> hi again
<EmxBA> i was here few hours ago :D
<pygi> EmxBA, rather before 10 hours and 24 minutes before :P
<EmxBA> yes mario
<EmxBA> i suppose that GPG think has finished :P
<EmxBA> bluekuja: i have few good edubuntu logos
<EmxBA> various colors
<EmxBA> shall i show it to you?
<pygi> EmxBA, she's not here
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> shall i show it to you, mario
<EmxBA> :D
<k31th> ay dns gurus ?
<EmxBA> they are same edubuntu logso, just different colors
<k31th> any*
<pygi> EmxBA, not right now :P
<EmxBA> ok
<pygi> later tho
<EmxBA> oki :P
<pygi> EmxBA, have you managed to sign CoC?
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> i must wait 
<cbx33> has that bug been fixed yet?
<cbx33> for 1.0.1
<pygi> cbx33, nop :)
<EmxBA> this is very nervous :-|
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> just sign 1.0
<EmxBA> i cannot sign it
<EmxBA> it says that i should sign 1.0.1
<cbx33> did to me too
<EmxBA> so i must go to 1.0.1 sign web site
<cbx33> but as it is unsignable
<pygi> buahahah :)
<cbx33> calm down pygi 
<EmxBA> .D
* pygi calms down
<cbx33> heh
<pygi> cbx33, whaat!?
* cbx33 hides
<EmxBA>  :D
<DanielC> Does anyone know how I can run two or more instances of Firefox? (i.e. one on each thin client). I keep getting the error "A copy of firefox is already running".
<EmxBA> ?
<DanielC> I'll have 16 thin clients and they all should be able to run firefox.
<DanielC> When the second client starts Firefox it says "Firefox is already running but not responding. Close that window and try again".
<EmxBA> does anyone know why i always get 75 celsius in /proc/acpi/thermal/THRM/cpu
<EmxBA> something like
<EmxBA> that
<EmxBA> it always shows 75 
<EmxBA> anyone?
<EmxBA> i am using notebook
<lucasvo> DanielC: do you use different users on each thinclient?
<EmxBA> lucasvo: can you help me
<EmxBA> few years ago i've seen good temperature (58 celsius) is windows :D
<EmxBA> so sensors i have are good
<DanielC> lucasvo: Sadly, I can't think of a way to use different users without creating a huge amount of work for both me and the kids (these are primary kids).
<DanielC> EmxBA: If someone could help you they'd say something. We're not ignoring you, we just don't know.
<lucasvo> DanielC: why?
<EmxBA>  ok
<EmxBA> np
<DanielC> lucasvo: Creating 600 user accounts and asking each kid to type a different username and password is a lot.
<lucasvo> EmxBA: go to #ubuntu for HW questions not related to thin clients
<lucasvo> DanielC: you could make one user per machine
<EmxBA> ok
<pygi> lucasvo, could you do a lill' favor for me?
<lucasvo> ?
<pygi> generate me a download script with synaptic for network-manager-gnome
<lucasvo> pygi: sry, I am not on linux at the moment
<DanielC> lucasvo: That's an idea, but the head teacher likes the idea of having Gnome customized for each year group. So I'd like to have a common account for each year.
<lucasvo> bah
<lucasvo> DanielC: I don't know how I would do this
<DanielC> lucasvo: Suggestions welcome.
<pygi> DanielC, any chance you could do it?
<lucasvo> DanielC: make a user for every year on each machine
<DanielC> lucasvo: Ok. I can tell the teacher that either we hit problems with firefox and OpenOffice or we have an account per machine.
<DanielC> lucasvo: These are thin clients.
<DanielC> pygi: I'm on Linux, what can I do?
<pygi> DanielC, generate me a download script from synaptic for network-manager-gnome
<DanielC> pygi: How do I do that?
<lucasvo> DanielC: first open synaptic
<pygi> DanielC, you select the network-manager-gnome and click "file" or something like that, and you have generate download script
<lucasvo> DanielC: search for network-manager-gnome
* DanielC searches
<DanielC> I found a package called "network-manager-gnome"
<DanielC> File > Generate download script ?
<pygi> yes
<pygi> when you clicked on that package to install, ofcourse :P
<bluekuja> hello guys
<bluekuja> Mr pygi 
<bluekuja> :)
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh :)
<pygi> does any of your servers have Trac support?
<DanielC> pygi: Ok, I'll send you what I got and you can tell me if it's what you need.
<bluekuja> trac?
<pygi> bluekuja, http://www.edgewall.com/trac/details.html
<pygi> DanielC, please mail :P
<pygi> mario dot danic at gmail dot com
<DanielC> bluekuja: Trac is something like a bugzilla + code browser + wiki all in one.
<bluekuja> oh nice
<DanielC> pygi: Ok, what's your email address?
<DanielC> ok, I see it :)
<bluekuja> when i can set it up for you
<cbx33> wow bluekuja havn't seen you around for a while
<jsgotangco> oohhh trac
<bluekuja> omg pete!!
* jsgotangco likes trac
<bluekuja> hello man
<cbx33> howz you
<pygi> bluekuja, just wondering if any of your servers have support for that? :)
<bluekuja> really good :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, indeed ;)
* cbx33 has never used trac
<bluekuja> pygi: of course :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: thik of it as your personal launchpad
<cbx33> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooH
* cbx33 goes to search
<jsgotangco> (with emphasis to revision control using cvs/svn)
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh, k, how much do you charge for hosting? (with trac support)
<DanielC> pygi: Sent.
<pygi> and possibly even svn server? :)
<pygi> thanks DanielC 
<cbx33> oh bluekuja I gota bone to pick with you
<bluekuja> pygi: free for you :D
<cbx33> what's happened to that IRC server
<pygi> bluekuja, bleh, why is that? :-/
<bluekuja> cbx33: I'm working on it, it's ready now, but i forget to run the daemon
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> let me open it
<cbx33> oh excellent
<cbx33> I can't check it now anyway
<bluekuja> aww
<bluekuja> pygi: when do you need it ready?
<bluekuja> cbx33: pete 3-2-1 running
<pygi> Well, It's not really urgent :)
<cbx33> heh
<pygi> bluekuja, and I need to buy domain
<pygi> (me will host all his projects there, and webpages, and stuff)
<bluekuja> pygi: i can provide you a subdomain for now
<pygi> bluekuja, I'll pm you
<pygi> sec
<cbx33> hi guys
<cbx33> I'm a pam idiot
<cbx33> http://pastebin.com/706166
<cbx33> why is it asking me for my password twice
<cbx33> I know it's because of it checking local accounts and network accounts
<cbx33> but how can I get it to try the password on both?
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> I think I know
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> it's the pammount part that asks for a second password
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> DanielC, k, thanks :)
<pygi> now do the same with all gstreamer-plugins stuff :)
<RobinShepheard> hi all
<pygi> DanielC, poke? :P
<DanielC> hi
<DanielC> I'm setting up a server right now. Ok, what package do you want?
<pygi> DanielC, all gstreamer0.10-plugins-*
<DanielC> ok
<pygi> thanks ;)
<DanielC> np
<DanielC> sent
<pygi> jsgotangco, trac 0.10dev is much better then 0.9.5 stuff ;)
<bluekuja> ah pygi, one more question before leave
<bluekuja> which version do you want?
<pygi> bluekuja, of what? trac? :)
<pygi> just make sure I can install it, I'll install it on my own (ssh stuff)
<pygi> I will need several setups of it anyway
<DanielC> Damm it! The clients won't work. I can start Gnome, but the menus and buttons don't do anything so nothing works.
<DanielC> If you click on any menu nothing happens. Buttons don't do anything.
<DanielC> It might as well be one big background.
<pygi> bluekuja, is that ok for you? :)
<bluekuja> pygi: oh oki, ill create you a personal folder where you can install stuff
<pygi> bluekuja, oki :)
<DanielC> Can anyone guess why this might happen or how to fix it?
<pygi> and svn if thats possible ;)
<pygi> I'll make sure I get domain today
<bluekuja> yeah, of course
<bluekuja> if you need root
<bluekuja> just tell me
<bluekuja> i'll change passwords
<pygi> root? you are not afraid I would bork your server? :)
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> I'll install svn
<pygi> No need just yet until we get domain, so we could point it to svn.pykix.net stuff ;)
<pygi> aha, so you are afraid :)
<bluekuja> well dns redirection is not a problem ;)
<pygi> bleh, oki :)
<bluekuja> pygi: anyway I'll install all deps
<pygi> bluekuja, oki :)
<bluekuja> brb later
<DanielC> Help. The thin client won't work. I can login to Gnome but after that nothing works. I can move the mouse but if I click on anything nothing happens.
<DanielC> Menus don't do anything, buttons don't do anything.
<EmxBA> yes!
<DanielC> It's like when Gnome is frozen.
<EmxBA> i have finnaly set up my CoC
<DanielC> or X.
<EmxBA> i became ubuntutero!
<EmxBA> yupi!
<DanielC> Does anyone know what the problem is?
<pygi> EmxBA, congrats ;)
<EmxBA> pygi, finally
<EmxBA> ;)
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> see ya
<EmxBA> gotta contribute :D on wiki :
<DanielC> Does anyone know why the clients would freeze like that?
<DanielC> I can kill X on the client with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace
<DanielC> And the mouse moves.
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<spacey> DanielC: fixed the nfs problem?
<DanielC> spacey: It turns out that it was a hardware problem on the client. I replaced the client by a different machine and that one didn't have problems booting.
<DanielC> Very strange.
<DanielC> There aren't many things that can go wrong on the client, but something did.
<cbx33> ok guys
<cbx33> need a little bit of help
<DanielC> spacey: Although now I can boot and login to the thin client, nothing works after that.
<DanielC> spacey: When I click on menus or buttons nothing happens.
<DanielC> It's like Gnome or X is frozen.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: I have had a similar problem when the client workstation has locked. Does your keyboard still work, eg can you ctrl+alt+F1 ??
<RobinShepheard> oh and is it usb or ps2 mouse??
<DanielC> RobinShepheard:  ps2
<DanielC> I'm rebooting, I'll check the keyboard in a minute.
<RobinShepheard> ok
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: Keyboard works.
<DanielC> I'll try a different network card.
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I was using a usb mouse and I wondered if it was something to do with powersaving on locking of the screen, but if it happens on a ps2 mouse it can't be that
<DanielC> Ok, I've tried a new network card and that didn't help.
<DanielC> I've tried a different PCI slot, a whole other computer, and I've restarted the network switch.
<DanielC> So, unless it's the cable, the problem is not hardware.
<RobinShepheard> I don't think it is network related
<DanielC> But this is weird. I was only doing stuff with Firefox. Even if I totally wrecked Firefox that couldn't make Gnome stop working.
<DanielC> Especially after rebooting the server.
<RobinShepheard> I am just trying to recreate on another machine. how long roughly does it work for do you reckon??
<DanielC> I don't understand the question.
<RobinShepheard> well, does the mouse work for the first 10 mins and then dies??
<DanielC> The thin client was working fine yesterday and today it doesn't.
<RobinShepheard> or 20 mins or whatever
<DanielC> The mouse itself works.
<DanielC> But clicking on menus and buttons does nothing.
<DanielC> It's like the Gnome panel had crashed.
<DanielC> Except that it's not just the panel, but "everything".
<RobinShepheard> our thin client didn't stop working until the screen locked. yeah same as here, mouse moves and the keyboard can be used to interact with the windows
<RobinShepheard> but clicking doesn't work
<DanielC> exactly
<DanielC> Unless the problem is with the left mouse button :)
<RobinShepheard> I am trying to pin down whether it is something to do with the screen locking
<DanielC> Here it happens right away. Without the screen having to lock.
<DanielC> damm!
<DanielC> that's what it was!
<DanielC> It was the mouse.
<DanielC> Computers just don't like me. I get the weirdest faults.
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<ogra> RobinShepheard, try killing rge gnome-screensaver daemon via console on the server if it happens the next time and see if it solves it
<ogra> s/rge/the/
<RobinShepheard> ogra: funny you should suggest that
<RobinShepheard> I am just checking the same happens on another machine and then I was going to kill it
<shriphani> ogra ?
<ogra> yep ?
<Elwell> extending Gcompris - is there a "prefered" edubuntu way of doing it?
<ogra> Elwell, yes, do it with upstream so everybody benefits :)
<cbx33> ogra: I watned to ask
<cbx33> how much do you know about the authntication mechanism on ltsp
<Elwell> ogra, heh - right now its only basic changes - Making the "missing letter" ones a bit harder
<kholerabbi> I don't have sound in wine - someone said to get wine-esd, but that doesn't seem to be in the reps?? help pleeeease?
<kholerabbi> we-ell then
<Yagisan> queenslanders, really. so impatient.
<Yagisan> evening all
<Yagisan> cbx33: some pwads will be rolling out soon. feel free to give them a spin.
<pygi> hey Yagisan 
<cbx33> hoo ha
<cbx33> meeting time
* cbx33 got the day wrong
<pygi> cbx33, what meeting?:P
<cbx33> I'm a plonker
<cbx33> :(
<Yagisan> hey pygi
* Yagisan was confused for a second. It's still tuesday (I think) I know I missed a day because I woke up at 4pm, but not that many days.
<ogra> Yagisan, its tuesdeay *next week* already !
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ogra: I poke to ajmitch
<ogra> about AD integration ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> he's not going to be able to manage to put in the hiome dir mapping, which I wasn't asking for
<Yagisan> my god! the kids must be starving if I've been gone for a week. Last time I watch the soccer then
<cbx33> but he did lead me to some thinking about why mine isn't working
<cbx33> but i need some help
<cbx33> with the pam files
<pygi> Yagisan, hehe :)
<ogra> cbx33, then i'm the wrong person to ask ... no big pam knowledge here :)
<ogra> cbx33, tseng has AD auth running (but without /home mapping) 
<cbx33> I have AD auth
<cbx33> running fine
<cbx33> ;p
<cbx33> it's just the mapping
<cbx33> it works on the local machine
<cbx33> just not on the LTSP
<cbx33> clients
<ogra> doesnt need to work on the clients ;) 
<ogra> it needs to work on the server per session 
<EmxBA> hi again
<EmxBA> :
<cbx33> well, if I log in to the server
<cbx33> it works 
<cbx33> but if I login via a client it doesn't
<Yagisan> well, that was unpleasent
<Yagisan> my X-session crashed, and I had to recover it without disrupting other users logged into the server
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 
<pygi> hey hey
<highvoltage> hey hey pygi 
<EmxBA> hey hey mario
<EmxBA> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey EmxBA 
<cbx33> howz it going?
<EmxBA> how are you, highvoltage
<highvoltage> good. our dapper tuxlab setup is about 98% completed :)
<cbx33> nice 
<jsgotangco> hey
<EmxBA> very good
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you get yours sorted out already?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: nope
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'll find out tomorrow/thursday
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you?
<jsgotangco> same here but the embassy called me up today and asked to bring my ticket and insurance so i guess im good (hope so)
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> just read room assignments
<jsgotangco> i'll be with elmo heh
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> klaus knopper is coming!
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> nice
<jsgotangco> whoa even aaron seigo
<ogra> hmm, who is belinda lopez ?
<EmxBA> pygi 
<EmxBA> go to private please
<highvoltage> jennifer lopez's sister?
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> lol
<jsgotangco> whoooo
<jsgotangco> hmm lots of rpath people too
<ogra> highvoltage, does jlo's sister have a @nasa.gov mailaddress ?
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> she's coming to paris and is intrested in solving bug #1 for ubuntu and edubuntu according to the attendees page :)
<jsgotangco> i should talk to her and convince her to let me join the space program
<ogra> make an edubuntu-space LP team, quick !
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> heh
<ogra> we could make up a testing program, like how does one play gcompris on an olpc laptop at zero gravity :)
<jsgotangco> did you request for a prototype?
<EmxBA> is there any team which test edubuntu on laptops
<EmxBA> i could join them :D
<ogra> jsgotangco, i guess that wont be my job 
* ogra throws a secret look at rodarvus 
<jsgotangco> i have the sugar image in an FC5 machine its getting nicer and nicer
<EmxBA> does aynone know
<EmxBA> is there edubuntu laptop team
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: nope
<EmxBA> can i form it ?
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: the current laptop testing team is still good till edgy
<EmxBA> :D
<ogra> EmxBA, edubuntu is developed inside of ubuntu, there is no need for such a team
<EmxBA>  i know
<jsgotangco> its baically the same tools
<EmxBA> but anyway, we should make edubuntu-laptop team
<ogra> we inherit the solutions from the ubuntu team
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: i test edubuntu on laptops
<EmxBA> i could show my edubuntu laptop in city and show it to kids :D
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> and?
<EmxBA> at me everything works
<jsgotangco> if you look into my laptop page, results for edubuntu = ubuntu
<EmxBA> ok
<ogra> yep, ubuntu and edubuntu are identical in that area, no need for a separate team
<EmxBA> do you have a link?
<jsgotangco> it would be different if it was KDE
<ogra> heh, well
<jsgotangco> heh
<EmxBA> jsgotangco: do you have a link for that laptop page
<EmxBA> site
<jsgotangco> wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<EmxBA> ogra, jsgotangco, i suggest we change edubuntu cursor
<EmxBA> make it be human
<ogra> why the haeck cant these paypal spammers not check if you have a paypal account at all before sending you spam, grr
<pygi> ogra, lol :)
* ogra just had 140 paypal spams arriving within 2 minutes
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> lol
<jsgotangco> they know the wire transfers are coming from
<ogra> EmxBA, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseRadar see at the bottom
<ogra> (Post-release updates)
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> just a sec
<EmxBA> what should i read?
<EmxBA> edubuntu-artwork fix the cursor theme regression (OliverGrawert)
<EmxBA> that's you
<ogra> exactly
<EmxBA> how can i help edubuntu
<ogra> i'll add a big fat [done]  in the fron if its in the archive
<EmxBA> on wiki and launchpad
<EmxBA> ?
<EmxBA> ok
<ogra> expect it to be fixed this week
<EmxBA> are there any more bugs
<EmxBA> icons are ok
<EmxBA> gartoon
<EmxBA> can i help fixing something in edubuntu edgy
<ogra> sure you can
<EmxBA> what 
<EmxBA> for example
<EmxBA> i have lots of free time
<EmxBA> which i mostly spend on ubuntu
<EmxBA> chatting, helping, programming
<EmxBA> i wanted to sign to google summer of code, mentor ubuntu
<ogra> dunno, edgy doesnt even exist, i havent got my magic crystal ball handy to predict what will be broken in edgy
<EmxBA> i mean what can i fix
<EmxBA> so we can make future betted :-)
<ogra> so just stay around and see what will be needed to be fixed
<EmxBA> how?
<pygi> bleh :P
<ogra> just stay around here in that channel :)
<EmxBA> i can just put in edubuntu 6.06 CD and install it and report bugs
<ogra> once we can upload to edgy there will be much work to be done ...
<EmxBA> and fix them
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> when is that going to be?
<EmxBA> approx.
<ogra> if the toolchain to build packages on the autobuilder is done ...
<ogra> no idea when that will be or what bugs the guys encounter during setting it up...
<EmxBA>   ok
<ogra> but its likely to be ready after paris
<jsgotangco> :/
<ogra> or during 
<EmxBA> i'll report bugs and fix them
<EmxBA> can i suggest the changing of icons
<EmxBA> just a bit
<EmxBA> only few icons
<EmxBA> ?
<jsgotangco> it'll most likely be tagged as a wishlist for now
<ogra> EmxBA, sure you can, but note that only saying "i dont like that icon" wont help, provide a good reason and if possible an alternative icon 
<EmxBA>  i know
<EmxBA> i know the rules :-)
<ogra> and what jsgotangco said ... indeed that are whishlist bugs :)
<RobinShepheard> ping cbx33
<EmxBA>  hehe
<ogra> also if you want to have icons redone it would be nice to contact upstream about it so they fit in the whole
<jsgotangco> yeah
<EmxBA> and any other bugs
<bimberi> EmxBA: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<EmxBA> what's the thing where you had a most of the bugs?
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: X
<jsgotangco> muhahahha
<EmxBA> can i join edubuntu bugs team
<ogra> sure#
<EmxBA> X is ok on my laptop :D
<EmxBA> ok 
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: sure but not for 20-30% out there =)
<EmxBA> just approve me
<EmxBA> who's the admin on edubuntu.bugs
<jsgotangco> bug triaging is not about your bugs, but bugs encountered by others :P
<EmxBA> ?
<EmxBA> ogra: approve me, please :-)
<ogra> EmxBA, the LP teampage can tell you
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> i remember that i tried edubuntu 5.10 and the x were badly configured, instead of 1024x768 i got 640x480
<EmxBA> and a great part of my laptop screen remained black
<EmxBA> just the center was X
<EmxBA> i can't explain it good, but that was a bug
<jsgotangco> but does it work now on 6.06?
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> it works good
<EmxBA> 1024x768
<jsgotangco> EmxBA: that's caused by the auto config not detecting correctly that's a bug if you can reconfigure xserver after and get the right resolution
<EmxBA> thanks for approving me in, ogra
<jsgotangco> but then, no need to file that because its deemed fix
<EmxBA> :-)
<ogra> :)
<EmxBA> gotta go
<EmxBA> see ya
<jsgotangco> ciao
<ogra> ciao
<highvoltage> ogra: where did you see where people share rooms / stay?
<ogra> me ? 
<ogra> i didnt
<highvoltage> i just realised i might have not booked my place at the radisson
<highvoltage> or does claire organise that?
* ogra doesnt know who he shares with at all
<ogra> claire does
<highvoltage> shew.
<ogra> you only have to contact the travel agent for the flights
<ogra> everything else is done by canonical
<highvoltage> ok i just emailed her. the consulate wants proof that i'm going to stay there, and then i realised i don't have anything to confirm my stay at the hotel yet myself... just got a bit stressed :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: carlos
<highvoltage> ogra: do you perhaps have clair's phone number?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i got tat myself too, i had the hotel fax me a confirmation
<ogra> jsgotangco, me ? funny, i never shared with carlos yet
<jsgotangco> ogra: im with elmo
<jsgotangco> highvoltage is with Laser_away
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you happen to have the hotel's phone/fax number handy?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> we should switch so smokers can share a smokers room ;)
<jsgotangco> i agree
<highvoltage> ogra: and then categorised by what they smoke? ;)
<ogra> haha
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did the consulate ask it to be in french???
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: 00 33 1 60 036306 (phone)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: 00 33 1 60 037440 (fax)
<jsgotangco> try sending email to Fabienne Le Floch
<jsgotangco> fabienne.lefloch@hotels-res.com
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: no, they didn't
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: thanks!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: they ask for mine in french :P
<jsgotangco> Je vou confirme par la presente que Monsieur Jerome S. Gotangco blah blah blah
<jsgotangco> i got so exposed so much its in my brain now
<highvoltage> heh
<jsgotangco> is heno impaired so much that he has 2 assitants?
<ogra> they are likely not allowed to work 5 days in a row for 24h
<pygi> bluekuja, poke? :)
<jsgotangco> ah right
<jsgotangco> makes sense
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi there
<jsgotangco> mhz: !
<mhz> jsgotangco: EWNS was part of UWNS?
<RobinShepheard> pygi: Daft question, is there anyway I could be approved for the cookbook team??
<jsgotangco> mhz: its now one NS
<pygi>  RobinShepheard indeed there is
<RobinShepheard> pygi: cheers
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, i see
<mhz> jsgotangco: it kinda make sense
<jsgotangco> mhz: its pretty quiet 2 weeks lately, but it'll heat up during and after paris
<pygi> RobinShepheard, please discuss it with HedgeMage at next meeting
* ogra wonders what NS stands for ... he could imagine WN, but whats S ?
<pygi> ok?
<mhz> jsgotangco: i am sure you'll heat it up ;)
* jsgotangco no idea either, just flowed with mhz
<RobinShepheard> pygi: no problem, jsut after you left everyone else basically left hedgemage and myself to it
<mhz> ogra: it is a typo ;)
<pygi> Andrea, bluekuja, poke once again? :)
<ogra> heh
<mhz> ogra: or Edubuntu Weekly News Sandwich ?
<ogra> yeah, now that its merged for {k,ed}ubuntu :)
<RobinShepheard> Edubuntu weekly news service
<mhz> lol
<mhz> indeed
<RobinShepheard> Edubuntu weekly newt sandwich and you can tie it in to edgy
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> lol
<mhz> Maybe, LoCo's could get motivated to contribute to it too
* mhz scratches his head trying to understand why LoCo's in Latinamerica are so Forum and ML only contributors
<mhz> only = mainly
<bluekuja> pygi: hey mario
<mhz> .oO(well, time to get back to work)
<pygi> bluekuja, so what nameservers do I put with domain? :)
<bluekuja> oh domain ready?
<pygi> well, I need to put a nameserver :P
<bluekuja> pygi: pm
<pygi> Wow, Diva works in Dapper now without patching 
<pygi> JOY :)
<pygi> oki
* pygi asks someone to test Diva trunk? :)
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: could you discuss about Launchpad 'team-subscribers' pre-requisites? I mean, I have received some "want-to-join" requests from people who has no wiki homepage at all or people who prefer to get a wiki homepage name like zEro_KiLLa ...which is far from being wiki friendly. Bottom line... can I accept/filter subscribers with at least a 'normal' wiki homepage (where we can all see what he/she does and easily get to his/her page)
<jsgotangco> well its not really an LP sprint if you mean paris
<mhz> hhee, I know, but it is ubuntu topics.. or just edgy?
<ogra> its a #launchpad topic :)
<mhz> ogra: hmmm, i think it is edubuntu related (in my case) because people want to join a team but many don't even join IRC, do not particpate in ML, nor wiki. Then, how can we wrk with them as a "team" ?
<mhz> wrk = work
<ogra> but where is that edubuntu related ? 
<jsgotangco> well that's pretty hard
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mhz> (in my case) = edubuntu related teams in launchpad
<ogra> people also want to join ubuntu teams or kubuntu teams or baltix teams without having properly set up wikipages
<ogra> you are asking for a general filtering feature for team members or team member applicants
<ogra> thats not edubuntu related at all, but a missing LP feature
* mhz wonders why he can't make express correctly so readers dont misunderstand hime
<mhz> ogra: oh, hmmm, well, yeah, it is LP related in terms of "filtering" spec.
<mhz> bUT
<mhz> it is Edubuntu related (in this specific case i am pointing)
<jsgotangco> mhz: Edubuntu here is just an abstraction of a team in LP
<ogra> sure, but neither an edubuntu problem, nor solvable in edubuntu
<ogra> nobody in this channle works on LP, we're all just users as you are
<cbx33> ogra: true
<mhz> in terms of "can we filter?" "do we want to filter?" "is it okey there are 20 subscribers to a team when these 10 people dont participate on IRC, ML or wiki?"
<jsgotangco> mhz: if you have admin powers
<jsgotangco> but you're now talking about team heirarchy
<jsgotangco> #launchpad
<cbx33> mhz: is this specific to a team or in general?
<mhz> general
<mhz> Last week I spent about 30 minutes browsing teams
<mhz> in LP
<mhz> and trying to get info about many subscribers
<mhz> to diff teams
<mhz> zero info I could get
<mhz> and then I looked up some nick in IRC...
<mhz> found none again
<jsgotangco> mhz: don't go there it'll only frustrate you, LP is open reg site
<mhz> nor wiki
<jsgotangco> some just register to make support quests or bugs
<cbx33> mhz: I think sure there are problems, but if you make the system too flamey and hoopy people won;t help at all
<mhz> cbx33: hmm, good point
<cbx33> I have enough trouble tryingto get people to submit bugs on LP at all
* Yagisan wonders if he be filtered
<mhz> Yagisan: hehehehe
<cbx33> seriously they resent that they have to sign up
<jsgotangco> brb
<mhz> but I can at least see you and talk to you if you are member of a team. That is my point. very simple. You can surely subscribe to a team and do nothing. But at least, people of that team should be able to reach you.
<mhz> cbx33: yeah, true. Actually, many LatinA people complain it is all english
<cbx33> I think the system is as good as it's gonna be for a while
<mhz> even CodeOfConduct (which I have already translated with other fella)
<mhz> so they prefer not sign
<mhz> :(
<mhz> cbx33: ok, I guess I undertsand and have an answer to my head. 
<cbx33> ;)
<mhz> cbx33: just one last thought... then if Jhon is a member of a team, does nothing for the team, can't be reached (not even respnond emails), is he still a memeber?
* Yagisan wouldn't think so, but, is it because of lack of time ?
<cbx33> Yagisan: i agree
<cbx33> I think that's why there is a time limit on some memberships
* Yagisan is on 2 teams. lack of time prevents me for doing as much as I like
<mhz> I ask this, because I have promised myself to finally start (serious agenda this time) working on Edubuntu-Study-Content since July. Then I will have to coordinate a couple of meetings with subscribers.
<cbx33> possible seems the most sensible way
<Yagisan> I don't even know many people on the same teams as myself
<cbx33> people are a member for a certain period, if after that no contact can be made, they are dropped
<mhz> cbx33: oh, I had no idea.
<cbx33> but as ogra said, this is more a #launchpad topic
<jsgotangco> i dont see the problem
<jsgotangco> just make a timed subscription to the team
<ogra> but dont set it to 24h like the artteam admin did :)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> no make it 6 months for a development cycle heh
<ogra> i usually go with the default...
* cbx33 too
<mhz> hmm, good point
<mhz> I usually set it no-time-limited
<mhz> well, thx guys..you helped me clear my mind
<cbx33> np
* mhz needs to have clear mind on many edubuntu-ubuntu related topics for his talk next week
<mhz> oops, one last thing.. how come, if all stopped emails in edubuntu-devel are 'defered' by admin, they still get to inboxes?
<ogra> ??
<jsgotangco> because you're an admin and you get to see them?
<ogra> are you sure youre not talking about the edubuntu-devel-owner mails ? 
<mhz> well, i'll pay attention to it next time, ogra
<mhz> maybe you are right...it may be my 10 inches screen size setting + evolution
<ogra> you dont have them in your mail anymore ?
<mhz> I see most columns in reduced size
<mhz> nope, I usually wipe it out immediately
* Yagisan grumbles. I hate patches that have cvs revision cruft in them. 400 useless 400byte patches.
<cbx33> bbl
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: just spoke to fabienne. she's the most helpful french person i've spoken to all week :)
<jsgotangco> she?
<jsgotangco> did she fax you a letter?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
* jsgotangco thought fabienne is a he
<highvoltage> she's going to phone me back in a minute or so
<highvoltage> heh. i also thought it would be a guy.
<highvoltage> then she said 'you just sent me an e-mail, right?"
<highvoltage> and then i said 'erm....'
<jsgotangco> lol
<highvoltage> and then she started reading the mail, and i said yes, that's me.
<jsgotangco> f00k i sent email to fabienne as Mr.
<highvoltage> lol
<jsgotangco> dohhhh
<jsgotangco> good night
<pygi> night jsgotangco 
<Yagisan> night jsgotangco
<DanielC> ogra: Are you located in Saarburg Germany?
<DanielC> ogra: My employer says he might have met you, along with a guy called Manfred, related to an EU project for developing a server. Just curious.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<bddebian> Hello
<ogra> DanielC, then he met me, yes (i'm not located there, but was at that meeting)
<pygi> bluekuja, poke?
<pygi> bluekuja, awake? :)
<andv> pygi: I'm here :)
<pygi> andv, bleh, what happened? :P
<andv> i need to get the other account disconnected
<andv> i restart network
<andv> ^^
<pygi> bleh
<pygi> does it work now at least? :P
<andv> try now
<pygi> andv, nop, no go :)
<andv> pygi: great
<andv> let me check conf file
<pygi> andv, is that new server or something? :P
<pygi> (no one on it?)
<andv> yeah, no one
<pygi> o joy, just me then :)
<andv> all bandwitdh for oy
<andv> *you
<andv> ^^
<andv> try now
<pygi> no go
<andv> but can you see at least apache page?
<pygi> indeed
<andv> ok, great. That's a first step
<andv> which port are you trying ?
<pygi> none, just netservers
<andv> :6665?
<andv> try with the port now
<pygi> ping: unknown host www.netservers.org:6665
<andv> don't ping
<andv> browser now
<andv> i closed pings before
<pygi> ah, no work :)
<pygi> refused connection
<andv> without port (browser) ?
<andv> refused connection?
<pygi> without port is apache page
<andv> oh great
<andv> i don't know why it doesnt get the right port
<andv> works in local for me
<andv> mmm... i know
<andv> give me a minute
<andv> pygi: now?
<pygi> with port it doesnt work
<andv> try 8000
<pygi> andv, works
<andv> great
<bluekuja> okie
<pygi> bluekuja, finally something at least :P
<bluekuja> lol yeah, i fixed an error
<bluekuja> in dns setting
<bluekuja> and it works
<bluekuja> authentication is not enabled
<bluekuja> i need to enable it
<pygi> ok, and svn is located where?
<bluekuja> on /home/svn-repo and /tmp/svn
<pygi> eh, we'll solve that later :P
<pygi> Now when all is working :)
<bluekuja> yeah, we need authentication
* pygi thinks all this will take ages to be done :P
<bluekuja> well i think authentication wont be a great problem
<bluekuja> svn is ready now, needs two more setting
<bluekuja> *s
<pygi> we willl see :)
<bluekuja> pygi: I've reviewed your package
<bluekuja> pm
<pygi> bluekuja, oki :)
* pygi is over & out
* highvoltage sits back and takes a deap breath in and out
<LaserJock> highvoltage: heah! I think we are roommates :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i heard something like that yet
<highvoltage> s/yet/yes
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i'm very sorry to hear that though
<highvoltage> (for your part)
<LaserJock> heh
<highvoltage> according to other collueges who have shared a room with me before, i snore so loud that they could hardly sleep :)
<LaserJock> I'll remember to bring ear plugs :-)
<LaserJock> actually I'm know as a heavy sleeper, takes quite a bit to wake me up
<highvoltage> yeah me too. not even my own snoring wakes me up :)
<LaserJock> lol
<lucasvo> anybody know if ubuntu will use CNR in next release?
<LaserJock> CNR?
<highvoltage> CNR is CNR in Next Release
<highvoltage> :P
<lucasvo>  highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: sorry, was a joke. as in a GNU's Not Unix.
<highvoltage> (CNR's in Next Release)
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> like Wine is not an emulator
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> so what is CNR?
<lucasvo> click-n-run
<lucasvo> from linspire
<highvoltage> is it like gnome-app-install?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: it also has commercial apps
<lucasvo> (where you pay)
<highvoltage> aaah, i see.
<lucasvo> uh
<lucasvo> I didn't know one have to pay for it
<lucasvo> that's crap
<highvoltage> how so?
<highvoltage> it might be good to make it easier for 3rd party commercial vendors to make their products available for ubuntu.
<lucasvo> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> having said that, i would still not do it, with the exceptions of games perhaps.
<lucasvo> I am interested as a thirdparty vendor
<lucasvo> highvoltage: but 20$ per year is too much only for the service
<lucasvo> ubuntu should develop an alternative
<highvoltage> yes, definitely
<highvoltage> linspire and its friends is a complete rip-off, imho
<LaserJock> what is the point of a thirdparty vendor?
<LaserJock> proprietary apps?
<lucasvo> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> why not use Multiverse?
<lucasvo> LaserJock: because then anybody can install it
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> so proprietary and non-redistributable
<lucasvo> LaserJock: apps that cost something
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> and putting a .deb on a website is not good enough?
<lucasvo> LaserJock: well depends. 
<ogra> CNR will never enter ubuntu ever, its insecure crap
<ogra> gnome-app-install does the same in a sane manner
<ogra> (and includes commercial apps since dapper)
<LaserJock> hi ogra!
<lucasvo> ogra: yeah. true. I didn't really know what CNR is. The fact to pay for being able to install oo.org is ridiculous
<ogra> that too
<ogra> but its also based on autopackage built packages (like klick) which is a big security hole 
<lucasvo> ogra: well. gnome-app-install doesn't support apps that cost.
<ogra> sure it does
<lucasvo> ogra: how?
<ogra> there are just not many ISVs yet
<lucasvo> ISV?
<ogra> vmware works closely with us and some other ISVs will join during edgy
<lucasvo> ogra: well, but you would still have to buy a license key in a third-party store.
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hi, all, what's up?
<ogra> i have no idea how ISVs solve that in other distros, but you surely dont have to buy anything in a store to get commercial stuff in redhat or suse
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean if you want to install vmware with gnome app install, how should that work?
<ogra> anyway, ubuntu has a concept for it, it just needs to be adopted by the ISVs (which already happens slowly)
<lucasvo> do you enter your credit card number?
<HedgeMage> what are we talking about?
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: commercial apps and gnome-app-install
<ogra> lucasvo, i havent the slightest idea and im not really after finding it out
<ogra> i know there is an opportunity and that vmware is the first one that uses it
<ogra> and i know that others will follow up
<lucasvo> ogra: do you have a link?
<ogra> for details ask the marketing dept.
<ogra> a link ? for what ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: a spec or something about the concept for ISV?
<ogra> nope
<HedgeMage> what's "ISV" stand for?
<lucasvo> ok, I'll ask the marketing dept.
<lucasvo> ogra: thanks
<ogra> search the wiki, there is surely a spec
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: 2. google hit. Independent software vendor
<lucasvo> Independant
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> I'm thinking I actually like WillowNG as a name.
<highvoltage> lucasvo: you could actually point gnome-app-install to a 3rd party vendor, and sure, anyone can install
<highvoltage> lucasvo: but perhaps they can just use a key or some kind of protection to let people pay for the full product
<ogra> Amaranth, well, i havent got a better idea yet either 
<Amaranth> hehe
<ogra> lets keep willow-ng as a work name 
<Amaranth> well, i'm about to implement the dbus interface which uses the name about 20 times :P
<Amaranth> btw, i'm a dbus interface and an html tokenizer away from calling the proxy part done
<ogra> but since you write something completely new we should reconsider a new name for release
<ogra> hmm, dbus ? 
<ogra> that will mean we need dbus on proxy/firewall boxes ?
<Amaranth> yeah, going to use dbus for the pygtk and safetyboat frontend to talk to it
<Amaranth> Unless you have a better idea.
<ogra> ah, k only a frontend thingie
<Amaranth> Well, the server has to have dbus installed.
<ogra> hmm
<Amaranth> (and python-gobject, python-pysqlite2, etc)
<ogra> the python deps are no problem, but i already hear the admins scream that want to run a dedicated fw/proxy box
<Amaranth> the bayesian library stored all it's training info in a list of objects (completely loaded in memory) and would just pickle it and dump to file to save
<Amaranth> so i ported it to sqlite
<Amaranth> but in order for the frontend to be able to train the proxy they need access to this sqlite DB
<Amaranth> and only one process can open an sqlite DB at a time
<Amaranth> so i need some sort of IPC
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: ahh thanks
<ogra> right ...
<Amaranth> what's wrong with dbus on a proxy/firewall box?
<Amaranth> it's not like it can communicate across a network
<ogra> well, if thats your way to do it, its ok, we just cant advertise it fo rreal firewall setups
<Amaranth> hrm
<ogra> you wont run dbus on a firewall, you wouldnt even run a modularized kernel on a *real* firewall
<Amaranth> i could make the dbus interface configurable
<ogra> (or have a compiler installed or other stuff a hacker could use)
<Amaranth> you could use the web frontend to turn if off if you're not running the proxy on your local computer
<ogra> that'd be good
<Amaranth> that'd be a "i finished early and need things to do" bit :P
<ogra> i dont really mind it for edubuntu, but if people want to use it in ubuntu and want to use it for a dedicated FW setup they wont like it
<Amaranth> hmm
<ogra> yeah, lets keep it on the "nice to have" list
<Amaranth> even easier, i can just make it not set that part up if the python2.4-dbus package isn't installed and set that as a Recommends
<ogra> cool
<salleschool> hello
<salleschool> I'm here again
<salleschool> I'm still have the same problems that yesterday
<salleschool> X-screen out in some thin clients
<salleschool> they are p!! 200Mhz 64RAM S3Virge 1mb card
<ogra> 1mb is *very* low
<highvoltage> for 1mb you'd probably have to use 800x600x16bit?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but that means a lot of manual work to tweak lts.conf for every client with the right hsync vertrefresh values etc
<ogra> you could try to force 16bit in the edefault section of lts.conf and see if that at least suffices for 640x480
<Amaranth> can 1mb even do 800x600x16bit?
<salleschool> This my lts.conf for that terminal
<salleschool> SERVER=192.168.0.1
<salleschool> XSERVER= S3Virge
<salleschool> X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
<salleschool> X_MODE_2 = 800x600 40.000 800 864 928 1088 600 616 621 657 -HSync -VSync
<salleschool> LOCAL_APPS = N
<salleschool> X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "Microsoft"
<Amaranth> I thought it could only do 800x600x8bit
<salleschool> X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/ttyS0"
<salleschool> USE_NFS_SWAP = S
<salleschool> SWAPFILE_SIZE = 128m
<salleschool> RUNLEVEL = 5
<salleschool> like this
<ogra> STOP !
<ogra> please use a pastebin
<salleschool> sorry
<ogra> X_MODE isnt supported at all, you need the right horizsync vertrefresh values from your monitor handbook
<ogra> where does this lts.conf come from thats totally inappropriate for ubuntu
<salleschool> But I have changed the monitor and it's the same, the monitor turns off
<salleschool> I copy from a ltps distribution and I though It was ok
<salleschool> Is ltsp from ubuntu 6.06 the same that ltsp 4 or so
<ogra> drop SERVER (unles its a different one from the bootserver), XSERVER (its autodetected) X_MODE_* (its not used in ubuntu) LOCAL_APPS (not supported at all yet) NFS_SWAP isnt in 2.6 kernels anymore, ubuntu only uses runlevel 2, RUNLEVEL isnt respected 
<ogra> muecow ltsp (the ubuntu implementation and the one ltsp.org will base on in the future) detects everything it can autodetect, the bigger amount of lts.conf settings is obsolete
<ogra> use only the X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL and X_MOUSE_DEVICE settings and add X_COLOR_DEPTH=16, wipe the rest of the file
<ogra> (if 16 doesnt work, try with 8, that graphics card is extremely low level)
<salleschool> I've got the ltsp in opt/ltsp/i386/etc, it is right?
<salleschool> or I must put in /etc/
<ogra>  /opt... is right 
<salleschool> need I restart something after change lts.conf?
<spacey> the thinclient
<salleschool> it says nfs is not responding
<salleschool> now it's working
<salleschool> it's not working
<salleschool> I must go, thanks
<salleschool> bye
<LaserJock> hehe, is that a hungry ogra?
<ogra> rather angry ogra ranting about his airport extreme and linksys router
<LaserJock> ah
<bddebian> heh
<EmxBA> hello!
<highvoltage> hello EmxBA 
<EmxBA> hello
<EmxBA> what is edubuntu team currently working on
<EmxBA> we have a lot of time to the ~october
<EmxBA> thatis, till edgy 
<EmxBA> :D
<ogra> EmxBA, we're working on writing specifications for the software and changes we will make 
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> when you finish that i will be glad to help you :-)
<LaserJock> are deferred spec re-evaluated or are they left alone?
<rodarvus> EmxBA: you're also welcome to contribute to specifications if you will :)
<EmxBA> i will
<EmxBA> surely i'll contribute a lot
<rodarvus> I mean, writing them (so you don't need to wait ;) )
<cbx33> Amaranth, did you get my mail?
<Amaranth> cbx33: yeah
<Amaranth> i think i'm going to stick with WillowNG right now though
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> good call :p
<EmxBA> when are we arranging meeting
<EmxBA> on wednesday, i know
<EmxBA> but what time? whole day maybe?
<lucasvo> EmxBA: there is no fix time
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> so whole day :D
<ogra> sure there are two alternating times
<lucasvo> EmxBA: no
<ogra> 12:00 UTC or 20:00 UTC
<EmxBA> i am just joking, no hard thoughts lucasvo :D
<ogra> tomorrow its 12:00 UTC (according to the schedule)
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> what's the topic
<ogra> see the channel topic, it has a link to the agenda
<EmxBA>  ok
<EmxBA> sorry :-(
<ogra> but thanks for reminding, i forgot to add a topic ;)
<EmxBA> np
<EmxBA> ..
<LaserJock> ogra: there is stuff to talk about? :-)
<ogra> yeps
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<cbx33> stand by for some gisomount updates
<EmxBA>  hi LaserJock
<EmxBA> know you?
<LaserJock> ogra: JaneW replacement?
<ogra> nope, there wont be an actual JaneW replacement ...
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<ogra> dont take all the suspense by asking me about it ;)
<rodarvus> :D
<LaserJock> I was just trying to judge if I should get up at 0500 for it or not :p
<ogra> LaserJock, well, you could train for paris and the jetlag in advance a bit :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<cbx33> LaserJock, changes commited
<EmxBA> what should i do if I want to join edubuntu-members team?
<ogra> btw in case you guys didnt see it, there is a spontaneous spec meeting going on in -meeting for lurkers
<cbx33> EmxBA, you'll have to wait till next month
<EmxBA> i know
<cbx33> but start your wiki page
<ogra> EmxBA, first have a wikipage about yourself 
<EmxBA> oh, right
<cbx33> listing all you have done so far
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> does anyone have a good example of nice wiki page
<EmxBA> ogra maybe?
<ogra> no, mine could be better
<cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/PeteSavage
<cbx33> :p
<EmxBA> ok
<ogra> DanielRobitaille was a very good one iirc
<EmxBA> :-P
* cbx33 has to update his
<cbx33> I can't keep up with it
<EmxBA> should i make wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com or wiki.edubuntu.com
* ogra hasnt updated his sine ages
<ogra> *since
<ogra> EmxBA, they are the same ;)
<ogra> as well as wiki.kubuntu.org is
<cbx33> xubuntu?
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> :-P
<ogra> cbx33, dunno, is there a xubuntu.org page at all ? 
<cbx33> dunno :p
<ogra> yep, there is
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> where can i register on wiki?
<highvoltage> there's even a complete xubuntu.org drupal website sitting on my hard disk, i just haven't had the chance to catch znarl to have my login sorted out :(
<EmxBA> :D
<highvoltage> it's weird, everything is happening at once, and after the next month or so, it seems like things will quiet down quite drastically. if only life had some kind of load balancing :)
<EmxBA> are you jonathan carted, highvoltage?
<highvoltage> cbx33: btw, how's your arm?
<highvoltage> EmxBA: one letter out :)
<cbx33> much better
<EmxBA> *carter
<highvoltage> did you go to the doctor? found out what it was?
<highvoltage> it might still be a good idea to check it out, even if it's better now.
<cbx33> not yet
<HedgeMage> cbx33: what did you do to your arm?
<cbx33> I know I know, I should do
<cbx33> think it#s the onset of RSI
<HedgeMage> ack!
<cbx33> yeh I'm not worried at this stage
<cbx33> but highvoltage is right
<cbx33> i should visit doctor
<EmxBA> wtf?
<EmxBA> firefox died 
<EmxBA> very rare 
<cbx33> LaserJock, lots of internal changes have made gisomount much easier to code with
<cbx33> only one internal change left
<cbx33> See I've implemented a lot of the TODO stuff
<cbx33> I was invstigating the gksu thing you mentioned
<cbx33> but couldn't get it to work
<cbx33> will try again tomorrow
<LaserJock> cbx33: ok, I'm finishing this packaging project today, finally
<LaserJock> cbx33: I'll try to merge and take a look at your changes tonight
<cbx33> LaserJock, ooop I think I got it
<cbx33> ok that change will be made tomorrow
<cbx33> along with some more funtion breakouts
<LaserJock> man, you are fast at this stuff
<cbx33> LaserJock, I try
<LaserJock> it's going to take me a while to just learn the pygtk stuff
<cbx33> think what it'd be like if I did it for a job :D
<cbx33> LaserJock, pygtk is easy
<cbx33> without swearing it's a piece of p***
<EmxBA> will edgy eft contain compiler?
<cbx33> it's looking like it
<cbx33> LaserJock, you'll pick up pygtk in an hour or so
<LaserJock> hehe, I hope
<LaserJock> I can do the glade ok
<cbx33> signals and handlers for the basics it's easy
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> have you looked at glade and signals and handlers
<LaserJock> a bit
<cbx33> then you're fine
<cbx33> take a look at the gisomount glade file at some point
<cbx33> it's really simple
<LaserJock> I just need to have more than 5min at a time too look at it :-)
<cbx33> yeh
* HedgeMage bounces
<HedgeMage> a couple of hours to go and the logo is done, the theme is getting there, and the content just needs to be typed up
<EmxBA> where can i exactly register on ubuntu wiki
<EmxBA> i type my launchpad account and password and it says "bad password" :-) bleh
<EmxBA> i know i have typed right pass
<HedgeMage> I did it so long ago that I don't remember... let me look
<EmxBA> does anyone know where can i register to wiki??
<LaserJock> EmxBA: it uses your LP id
<EmxBA> i know
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: mine acts up if I just use my LP id, I have to use the full email addy I use for LP
<EmxBA> i type right pass and it says that it is not right.
<EmxBA> ?
<LaserJock> not your id, your LP login info
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> let me try again :-)
<EmxBA> on "name" i should type mail
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> finnaly! i needed to type my mail which i use on LP
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that was what I was trying to say
<EmxBA> great
<LaserJock> but it didn't come out very well
<froud> hi, I just want to make sure that I am porting the correct version of the edubuntu cookbook to docbook. Is this the copy https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<LaserJock> froud: no
<froud> LaserJock: p[ls drop me the correct URL
<LaserJock> froud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: that drove me nuts at first, too :)
<froud> I think somebody needs to tend the wiki
<froud> the weeds are think
<froud> thick
<LaserJock> hehe, yeah
<cbx33> has the wiki move happened yet?
<LaserJock> don't think so
<cbx33> all that work we did :p
<LaserJock> the server guys are a bit busy getting ready for Paris I think
<bddebian> What are the dates for Paris?
<ogra> 18th to 24th
<bddebian> Thx
<cbx33> I thought it was only 2 days
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> it's usually 2 weeks, isn't it?
<LaserJock> but this time it's shorter
<LaserJock> :( edubuntu-dynamic-menus when back to "undefined"
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> see the discussion :)
<LaserJock> I know, I know
<ogra> they are all just reset to zero
<LaserJock> ok, so at Paris will *everyone* discuss every spec? or is it divided up into groups?
<ogra> its divided into BOF discussions
<ogra> you subscribe to specs you want to discuss
<EmxBA> sorry, i reconnecter
<EmxBA> *reconnected
<EmxBA> hi pygi
<EmxBA> can i contribute writing manual pages 
<EmxBA> like Pete Savage
<pygi> EmxBA, hehe :)
<EmxBA> hi marko
<EmxBA> can i private you? :-)
<pygi> marko? who is marko? :P
<pygi> No, not again pls :P
<EmxBA> marko? that's a new distribution :D
<EmxBA> based on Ubuntu
<EmxBA> Can i calk you markubuntu , pygi?
<EmxBA> :-)
<EmxBA> *call
<pygi> EmxBA, ofcourse not
<EmxBA> :-)
<EmxBA> calm down man
<EmxBA> :D
<pygi> I am always calm :P
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> can i join edubuntu-doc team?
<EmxBA> higvoltage
<EmxBA> i have a lot of free time
<EmxBA> i know english nice
<EmxBA> can i become a member of edubuntu-doc
<EmxBA> ? please :-)
<pygi> EmxBA, hey, now you calm down :)
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> where can i upload my edubuntu logos
<EmxBA> on art.ubuntu.com=
<EmxBA> *?
<EmxBA> how does my wiki page look like now
<EmxBA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmirBeganovic
<EmxBA> check it out :-P
<pygi> EmxBA, who have you bribed to become member of all those teams in two hours? :P
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> i am member of those teams for ~2 weeks
<EmxBA> :-)
<EmxBA> highvoltage
<EmxBA> can you let me in edubuntu-doc?
<lucasvo> EmxBA: wow. you are even younger than I am!!
<lucasvo> 2 years. not much...
#edubuntu 2006-06-14
<pygi> hey hey Amaranth :P
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<EmxBA> hi again!
<lucasvo> 23:36 < lucasvo> EmxBA: wow. you are even younger than I am!!
<lucasvo> 23:37 < lucasvo> 2 years. not much...
<lucasvo> EmxBA: you are from bolivia?
<lucasvo> chavez? :P
<EmxBA> not bolivia
<pygi> lucasvo, bleh
<EmxBA> BOSNIA
<pygi> Bosnia :P
<lucasvo> oh
<EmxBA> lucasvo, how do you know how old am I?
<lucasvo> EmxBA: I read your wikipage
<EmxBA> pylucasvo: really?
<lucasvo> yes
* lucasvo is ashamed that he hasn't one
<EmxBA> what do you think about it=
<lucasvo> nice
<EmxBA> :-)
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> so how old are you
<lucasvo> 16
<EmxBA> 14+2= 16
<EmxBA> :-)
<EmxBA> till now you were the youngest
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> now it's me
<EmxBA> :-P
<crimsun_> (you are going to need a wiki page sooner than later if you plan to apply for membership...)
<lucasvo> yep
<lucasvo> crimsun_: yes
<EmxBA> higvoltage, are you sleeping or what ?
<lucasvo> crimsun_: but atm I don't have time for it
<bluekuja> pygi: mario!!
<EmxBA> lucasvo: where do you live
<pygi> bluekuja, what!!
<EmxBA> bluekuja: oh, hi
<bluekuja> hello EmxBA :)
<lucasvo> crimsun_: and if I don't even have time for the wikipage it's probably not very usefull for applying as a member ship
<EmxBA> how are you
<pygi> what's up andrea? :)
<lucasvo> EmxBA: switzerland
<EmxBA> nice
<bluekuja> pygi: i just went home from party
<lucasvo> buongiorno bluekuja 
<pygi> ah, was it good? :)
<bluekuja> EmxBA: I'm really good
<EmxBA> bluekuja, do you know is higvoltage sleeping or away or what
<EmxBA> i need him 
<EmxBA> :-)
<lucasvo> EmxBA: he is probably away
<bluekuja> lucasvo: it's buonanotte now :)
<lucasvo> EmxBA: what do you need him for?
<lucasvo> bluekuja: no
<lucasvo> a new day just started
<bluekuja> EmxBA: he's away
<EmxBA> i want to become a member of edubuntu-doc
<pygi> lucasvo, he want to become ubuntu-doc member :P
<lucasvo> oh
<EmxBA> i just want to write documents 
<EmxBA> for edubuntu :-))))))
<bluekuja> lucasvo: oh cool
<EmxBA> realy
<lucasvo> EmxBA: you can write without being a member
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> lucasvo: it's night here :)
<lucasvo> bluekuja: my italian grade is not so cool
<crimsun_> lucasvo: understood, but time is something you make.
<EmxBA> i can write few nice docs
<lucasvo> bluekuja: yeah here to
<bluekuja> pygi: party was great
<EmxBA> and can i become member when i write my first docs?
<lucasvo> crimsun_: yes. and at the moment I really don't want to drop out of school
<pygi> bluekuja, nice to hear that :)
<crimsun_> lucasvo: good, don't.
<EmxBA> pygi, have you read my wiki page?
<bluekuja> pygi: I've met a really cool girl
<lucasvo> bluekuja: congrats
<pygi> EmxBA, don't have time for that, sorry :P
<bluekuja> lucasvo: :D 
<EmxBA> pygi: no problems
<EmxBA> bluekuja: how old are you
<bluekuja> lucasvo: it's not a normal girl eh
<EmxBA> i am 14 :-)
<bluekuja> 18 man :)
<EmxBA> the youngest member of #edubuntu
<bluekuja> mmm.... yes
<EmxBA> probably the youngest of all *ubuntu teams
<EmxBA> right?
<bluekuja> yeah maybe
<EmxBA> :D
<bluekuja> EmxBA, your wiki page link?
<EmxBA> should i get a reward :-)
<EmxBA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmirBeganovic
<lucasvo> ok, I am of to sleep
<bluekuja> lucasvo, cya I'm off too, i gonna write some sms
<pygi> enjoy bluekuja :P
<pygi> time to continue work tommorow :P
<lucasvo> bluekuja: why don't you invite her over? it's easier to talk or whatever not sms :P
<bluekuja> pygi, 10 more minutes
<pygi> (today that is :P)
<bluekuja> lucasvo: i know, we are quite far away
<bluekuja> so the only way now is sms
<bluekuja> until friday
<lucasvo> EmxBA: yes, and I should be jealous
<EmxBA> heh
<lucasvo> :P
<EmxBA> :)
<bluekuja> lucasvo: how old are you?
<lucasvo> bluekuja: 16
<lucasvo> bluekuja: where do you live?
* pygi calls people for massive voting on "http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158" with 10 :)
<EmxBA> who's the eldest ubuntu member :-)
<bluekuja> lucasvo: italy
<EmxBA> i live in bosnia
<EmxBA> near mario :D
<lucasvo> bluekuja: north, south?
<bluekuja> north :)
<lucasvo> bluekuja: I am going to apullia this summer
<bluekuja> apullia??
<bluekuja> whats that?
<EmxBA> pygi, i voted 10 :D
<lucasvo> hm, ok. in german it's apulien. It's in the very south of italy
<lucasvo> bluekuja: what is this area called?
<bluekuja> do you mean sicily?
<lucasvo> bluekuja: no
<lucasvo> it's in the east
<bluekuja> oh puglia?
<lucasvo> could be
<bluekuja> marche?
<bluekuja> basilicata?
<lucasvo> puglia
<bluekuja> oh nice
<lucasvo> it will be hot
<bluekuja> well we are quite far away
<EmxBA>  bluekuja, just a question
<bluekuja> 300 or more km
<EmxBA> how can i do that thing which all of you do
<EmxBA> which mario did
<EmxBA> i mean something like ***emx is youngest member
<lucasvo> bluekuja: I am probably nearer to you in zurich than in south italy
* pygi wonders whats :P
* bluekuja asks to EmxBA what he needs?
<lucasvo> EmxBA: /me blah?
<EmxBA> yes, that
* lucasvo blah
<bluekuja> just do /me etc
* bluekuja etc
* EmxBA EmxBA is the youngest member of all ubuntu channels
<EmxBA> hehe
<bluekuja> dont put your name
<bluekuja> ^^
<EmxBA> ok
<bluekuja> lucasvo, yeah
* EmxBA is young :D
<bluekuja> we can meet if you want
* lucasvo will be 18 till he dies :P
<lucasvo> ->Brian adams
<lucasvo> bluekuja: when I settled things in school, why not?
* EmxBA says nice quote: "youngs use linux for young human beings"
<bluekuja> great
<EmxBA> thatis edubuntu
<EmxBA> :D
<lucasvo> cya guys
<bluekuja> cya man take care
* EmxBA smrhc....lucasvo is leaving us...
<pygi> EmxBA, bleh
<EmxBA> hehe
<pygi> only english here :P
<bluekuja> lol
<lucasvo> ok, just finished packing my schoolbag.
<lucasvo> bluekuja: how old are you? btw
<bluekuja> pygi: i decided to write sms here, so we can stay together
<EmxBA> pygi, ok
<bluekuja> ^^
<pygi> lucasvo, she told you :P
<EmxBA> again i congratulate on wonderful app
<bluekuja> lucasvo: I'm 18
* bluekuja wonders why pygi said "she told you"
<pygi> bleh, ignore me :P
* EmxBA is almost sleeping
* pygi is very tired, sorry :-/
<crimsun_> geez, younguns.
<bluekuja> it's correct that i said it
<bluekuja> but you alwais write "she"
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> bleh :P
<lucasvo> he confused me
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> lol
<lucasvo> I knew Andrea is a boys name in italian
<EmxBA> she or he? to be or not to be :-)
<EmxBA> no...
<bluekuja> lucasvo, yes
<lucasvo> bluekuja: in german it's both
<bluekuja> it's both male and female
* pygi is just often confused :P
<EmxBA> for me that is female name :)
<EmxBA> just a joke
<pygi> bleh, sorry bluekuja :P
<bluekuja> pygi: you're alwais great :D
<pygi> bleh :P
<EmxBA> pygi: is bonfire added to multiverse
<pygi> EmxBA, lol, why multiverse
<bluekuja> :D
<EmxBA> maybe universe
<EmxBA> i voted for bonfire
<EmxBA> now it is 9.14 !
<pygi> neither universe
<bluekuja> pygi: fixed errors I told you before?
<EmxBA> :)
<pygi> bonfire cannot go in Dapper
<EmxBA> why?
<pygi> bluekuja, nop, I am afraid you'll have to do it :P
<bluekuja> it's not gnome-version
<bluekuja> compatible
<EmxBA> these are rpms
<EmxBA> and sources
<EmxBA> :(
<bluekuja> pygi: ok then
<pygi> bluekuja, I am no expert with rpm stuff :P
<pygi> EmxBA, you need gnome 2.14.2
<EmxBA> pygi, can i translate it to bosnian?
<bluekuja> ok, I'll do it
<EmxBA> i have gnome 2.14.1
<EmxBA> how do i update it
<EmxBA> sudo apt-get install gdm?
<bluekuja> EmxBA: do i accepted you into -testers?
<pygi> bluekuja, thanks :)
<pygi> EmxBA, yup, sure :)
<pygi> EmxBA, dapper doesnt have new gnome :P
<EmxBA> bluekujea: edubuntu-testers?
* EmxBA always says bluekujea or something bad
* EmxBA bluekuja is right :D
<bluekuja> yes
<EmxBA> bluekuja: yes you have accepted me
<EmxBA> tnx
<bluekuja> great, i hope you have read the wiki page
<pygi> EmxBA, why do you wanna be member of every possible team on the LP planet? :-/
<bluekuja> about the team
<EmxBA> i have read
<EmxBA> i am downloading Edubuntu 6.06
<EmxBA> takes much
<EmxBA> i know what should i test, check, submit
<pygi> bluekuja, thanks, now we'll have it in both gentoo and Redhat thingy :)
<pygi> and soon, very soon in Debian/Ubuntu;)
<EmxBA> pygi: i do not want to become member of all teams
<EmxBA> just Edubuntu teams
<bluekuja> pygi: happy to sponsor a great package
<EmxBA> and few ubuntu
<pygi> EmxBA, bleh, that qualifies as "all" in my eyes :P
<EmxBA> all edubuntu teams
<EmxBA> not "all" teams
<pygi> you need that for every team you have duties? :)
<EmxBA> i don't understand you :)
<pygi> s/need/understand
<EmxBA>  ?
<pygi> ergh, every team you are in brings certain responsibilities
* pygi is sure he spelled this wrong :P
<EmxBA> i know
<EmxBA> i know that
<pygi> rather concentrate on few or even one of them
<pygi> and do quality job
<EmxBA> every team has "rules" and certain  responsibility
<EmxBA> ok, good advice
<EmxBA> tnx :)
<bluekuja> pygi: I'm building it on my chroot 
* EmxBA annoyed 'cause pygi left the room
* EmxBA had something important to tell him :)
<EmxBA> bluekuja, is it ok now
<EmxBA> see https://launchpad.net/people/emxba
<EmxBA> i am just member of few edubuntu teams
<bluekuja> yeah, coc is signed correctly
<EmxBA> i know
<EmxBA> and i got OpenPGP key
<EmxBA> is my picture ok?
<EmxBA> i have few similar which i created from original edubuntu logo
<bluekuja> nice
<EmxBA> is it ok now?
<EmxBA> glass effect
<bluekuja> if you want to contribute to artwork
<bluekuja> just talk with jane
<EmxBA> yes, i want
<bluekuja> or jonathan
<EmxBA> jane?
<bluekuja> ogra too
<EmxBA> is ogra here?
<EmxBA> jonathan is away
<bluekuja> oliver will help you with that too
<EmxBA> is this image good?
<EmxBA> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3026117/cubism.png
<crimsun_> EmxBA: I think your wiki page is a bit redundant. There's no need to list the teams of which you're a part, since they're already linked in your LP page. :)
<EmxBA> crimsun_: ok
<crimsun_> EmxBA: otherwise, they both look good.
<EmxBA> i just thoght that it would be ok
<crimsun_> EmxBA: well sure, it's /your/ wiki page, do whatever. My suggestion is that you concentrate on documenting what you do in {Ed,}ubuntu
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> bluekuja, is it better now :)
<EmxBA> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3026118/gray.PNG
<bluekuja> try to create a wallpaper
<EmxBA> ?
<bluekuja> it would be nice to see what can you do
<EmxBA> which consist of all these small pictures?
<bluekuja> no
<EmxBA> and this one: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3026119/orange.png
<EmxBA> or red one:http://librarian.launchpad.net/3026120/red.png
<EmxBA> or blue:http://librarian.launchpad.net/3026121/blue.png
<EmxBA> if edubuntu becomes kedubuntu :D
<EmxBA> crimsun_: i changed it now 
<EmxBA> bluekuja
* EmxBA waits for Andrea to answer
<bluekuja> well, they are nice but try to create something new, special
<EmxBA> maybe same logo just changed a lot 
<bluekuja> are you good with design stuff=
<bluekuja> ?
<EmxBA> in which meaning
* EmxBA wants to chat faster, gotta sleep :|
<EmxBA> bluekuja, i would appeciate if you would talk to jonathan or someone who is admin on that artwork project for edubuntu
* EmxBA really wants to sleep
<EmxBA> bluekuja, i can't wait any longer
<EmxBA> i really need some rest
<EmxBA> contact me at emx@linux.org.ba
<EmxBA> emx AT linux DOT org DOT ba
<bluekuja> EmxBA: sorry to answer slow
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> i know you are busy
<EmxBA> on all those channels
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> so i gotta go
<EmxBA> say what you need to say
<EmxBA> now or never :)
<bluekuja> lol
<EmxBA> just kidding
<bluekuja> cya man
<bluekuja> see you
<EmxBA> see ya
<EmxBA> an the artwork?
<EmxBA> who should i contact, bluekuja
<bluekuja> jane
<EmxBA> is that her nick
<bluekuja> JaneW
<bluekuja> nickname
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> and ogra
<EmxBA> ?
<EmxBA> JaneW is not online now
<bluekuja> you can ask him too
<EmxBA> ok
* EmxBA wants to sleep
* EmxBA leaving...
<EmxBA> see ya all
<ogra> meh, i missed sbartleylinux ...
<ogra> bluekuja, please dont point people to jane anymore, she has her last day tomorrow
<ogra> (and wont have the time to do any edubuntu stuff in her new job)
<bluekuja> ogra: ok oliver sorry, i didnt know that
<bluekuja> i'll point people to you then .D
<bluekuja> :D
<ogra> it was announced in one of the last meetings
<ogra> but wasnt made very public so was easy to miss
<bluekuja> ok perfect, meeting tomorrow?
<ogra> yep
<bluekuja> ok perfect, i need to add 2 points
<bluekuja> to the agend
<bluekuja> a
<ogra> doit :)
<bluekuja> what time?
<bluekuja> 12:00 utc as usually?
<ogra> as every second one, yesw
<ogra> *yes
<bluekuja> ok, great . It's a good time
<bluekuja> ogra: so jane won't be in #edubuntu ?
<ogra> she'll be here for the meeting tomorrow, but then leave canonical for a new job ...
<ogra> i think she plans to be around occasionally, but wont take any responsibilities
<bluekuja> aww :( 
<bluekuja> no good news
<ogra> well, it was her choice
<ogra> i'm not thrilled either...
<bluekuja> you don't know more about it? I mean, she was unhappy with her work?
<ogra> its hard to keep a real life intact in that job ... and you are at home but have to send your kids away because youre busy on irc 
<ogra> i can imagine how that might get hard ...
<bluekuja> yeah, that's true
<ogra> so i can understand her decision to work from an office thats not your living room and where someone sends you home at some point 
<bluekuja> yeah, exactly. Anyway I'm unhappy for her
<ogra> (dunno if she has a separate office or not, but you get what i mean)
<bluekuja> she was a really good person
<ogra> yep
<ogra> it will have a non trivial impact that she leaves ... 
<bluekuja> yeah...
<bluekuja> i hope to meet her again
<bluekuja> (tomorrow as you said)
<bluekuja> ogra: I add points on agenda and I'm off to bed
<bluekuja> :)
<ogra> night then :)
<bluekuja> cya, goodnight to you too :)
<ogra> hmm, i dont see any changes on the agenda
<ogra> are you sure you used the right wikipage ? 
<bluekuja> editing it right now 
<bluekuja> i ping you when done
<ogra> no need to, i'm subscribed
<bluekuja> oh oki
<bluekuja> done, see you tomorrow
<bluekuja> cya :)
<ogra> ciao
<LaserJock> ogra: edubunt-dynamic-menus are now High priority :-)
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> what exactly does that mean?
<ogra> i had marked it medium but mdz thinks its high :)
<ogra> the higher the prio the likelier it gets implemented 
<LaserJock> so who decides who works on it? is that part of the specing process?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> done by sabdfl, mdz and Keybuk atm
<LaserJock> TB?
<ogra> yup
<LaserJock> they do like to crack the whip don't they :-)
<ogra> heh, probably :)
<LaserJock> how come the CD diet still undefined?
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> LaserJock, mdz didnnt consider it a spec, he wants subspecs for every single task (while i just wanted a final seedlist after the BOF discussion)
<LaserJock> oh
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> s/final/semi final, modulo development changes indeed/
<LaserJock> hmm, so a spec for each addition/removal?
<ogra> seems like 
<ogra> the CD diet has also no priority ...
<ogra> we can drop develpment completely if it isnt implemented in edgy since we have nop opportunity to make more room, so i had marked it essential initially, but well 
<LaserJock> do we really need TB approval for it?
<LaserJock> I would think you would just redo the seeds ;-)
<ogra> well, i wanted to have time to review and measure during the BOFs
<ogra> to determine the best for us ...
<LaserJock> but can we (EC and anybody else who's in Paris) do it anyway?
<ogra> but i tend to agree, lets rather drop it and i'll just do the changes, it will be a lot of extra unnecessary paperwork to spec every change
<LaserJock> I mean, I can see specing the drop of the KDE apps
<ogra> (that was the intention to do this rather global spec)
<LaserJock> but every little things seems a bit excessive
<ogra> as long as we stay with these two suggestions already listed there, it wont be much work, but i was hoping to get a bigger list through the discussion
<LaserJock> I sure wish it was easier to deviate from ubuntu-desktop and pull in some Universe apps
<LaserJock> but I guess Main needs to be Main :-)
<ogra> yep
<bddebian> Hello
<cbx33> ogra, for my Ad authentication spec
<cbx33> do i change from braindump to something else for it to be looked at?
<ogra> did you add it to the spec tracker and the paris meeting ? 
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I made the spec by monday like you said
<cbx33> and i linked it on your edgy ideas page
<cbx33> what else do I need to do
<cbx33> heno was keen that i put it forward
<ogra> there is no spec yet, only a wikipage
<ogra> oh, there is a spec page as well now
<ogra> wasnt there when i looked last
<ogra> just add it to the paris meeting, then it will shw up in the right tracker
<cbx33> there was a spec, but it' sok
<cbx33> ogra, how do I add it
<cbx33> sorry it's 2am here and I've just repainted the bathroom
<LaserJock> cbx33: hehe, getting high on paint fumes? ;-)
<ogra> cbx33, its 3am here and i just packed my office into boxes while discussing bugs in #ubuntu-bugs and a spec about dropping source packages from ubuntu in -meeting 
<cbx33> ok ogra you win
* cbx33 bangs head against wall
<cbx33> head bleeds
* cbx33 dies
<ogra> cbx33, but i'd use the "add to meeting" link to add a spec to a meeting ;)
<cbx33> done
<cbx33> ogra, I forgot to add a spec to the edgy ideas page
<cbx33> is it now too late?
<ogra> all that counts in launchpad
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I need a wiki page for it
<ogra> s/in/is
<cbx33> oh i already did it
<cbx33> ok added
<cbx33> that's two specs
<cbx33> did you see heno's mail?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> right I've added those specs, I'll see if they get approved or declined
<cbx33> right now I'm shattered
<cbx33> been up for 21 hours no real record for you guys but....for me ...I'm dead on my feet
<cbx33> how often do the specs get updated?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<cbx33> when do i find out if they have been approved or declined
<LaserJock> not exactly sure
<LaserJock> the TB when through them earlier today
<cbx33> TB?
<Amaranth> dbus is a PITA
<bimberi> Amaranth: BayesWatch ?
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> no, it's how the pygtk capplet and safetyboat will send training data to the proxy
<bimberi> kk, i meant "BayesWatch" as a suggested name btw :P
* HedgeMage peeks in again
<cbx33> hi all
<Laser_away> hi Pete
<cbx33> hi Laser_away 
* cbx33 is tired
<cbx33> had....2 hours sleep :(
<crimsun_> don't mind Laser_away, he's playing ET.
<cbx33> noway
<crimsun_> he'll vehemently deny it, of course...
<cbx33> of course
* cbx33 slaps Laser_away's wrists
<crimsun_> "just wanted to test the intel mac" and more excuses we've heard before :p
<Laser_away> crimsun_: whatever, I should never have told you I downloaded it
<cbx33> hahahah
* cbx33 pokes Laser_away 
<crimsun_> yeah, you're up a creek now.
<cbx33> I suppose I should go make my breakfast
<Laser_away> I'm on to bigger and better thing, how do I get a web server and moin wiki up before the wife gets out of the shower :-)
<cbx33> sudo apt-get install ......
<Laser_away> yeah, I getting there
<cbx33> I think my eyes are actually falling out of their sockets
<Laser_away> heh, mine will be at the meeting
<Laser_away> ok, I'm off now
<cbx33> byw Laser_away 
<crimsun_> 'night
<crimsun_> err, aren't pygi and HedgeMage already edubuntu members?
* crimsun_ is reading wiki/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<HedgeMage> yep
<HedgeMage> we were voted in last week
<crimsun_> thought so. (It would be nice if it were adjusted on aforementioned wiki page, since I don't remember the date off the top of my head :)
<HedgeMage> go for it :)  I'm trying to wrap up here so I can get some sleep.  I am exhausted.
<crimsun_> sure, which day was it?
<crimsun_> the 7th, I presume
<HedgeMage> something like that :)
<HedgeMage> hi again cbx33, get any sleep yet?
<cbx33> 2 hours
<cbx33> howz the site going?
<jeffwaddell> anyone around?
<HedgeMage> kind of
<HedgeMage> cbx33: almost done, just adding the FAQ and stuff
<HedgeMage> cbx33: the design is "done" for some value thereof, I'm sure I'll tweak it as we go.
<HedgeMage> cbx33: connection issues?
<HedgeMage> cbex, even
<cbex> no firefox crashed on me
<HedgeMage> awww
<crimsun_> 'afternoon, JaneW 
<JaneW> hello
<HedgeMage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi HedgeMage :)
<cbex> hey JaneW 
<JaneW> hi cbx33 :)
<cbx33> grrr this is doing my head in
<cbx33> there must be a way to convert a string to a proper escaped filename
<cbx33> in python
<cbx33> but I can't find it
<EmxBA> hi everyone
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> pygi , hi!
<EmxBA> bluekuja:hi, Andrea
<EmxBA> ogra: hi
<cbx33> hi EmxBA 
<EmxBA> hi cbx33 :)
<cbx33> ping pygi 
<pygi> hey hey cbx33 ;)
<cbx33> I think I must be being stupid
<cbx33> I have areally quick python question
<cbx33> but it's been driving me nuts
* EmxBA has forgotten cbx33's real name :-(
<cbx33> Pete
<EmxBA> pete savage?
<cbx33> indeed
<EmxBA> something like that...
<cbx33> pygi: how can i convert a string which has a filename and contains spaces to a proper escaped file name for use in a shell?
<EmxBA> i have a really easy question
<cbx33> like my file.txt >> my\ file.txt
<cbx33> shoot EmxBA 
<EmxBA> how can i make a script which will list numbers from 1 to 2000 (for example) and put them into file
<EmxBA> ...something>file.txt
<EmxBA> but what?
<cbx33> on a new line?
<EmxBA> no....something for i=1 to 2000 echo i
<EmxBA> next i
<EmxBA> but that isn't being used in linux, i suppose
<EmxBA> ?
<pygi> cbx33, you could always go throught string, and if you find " ", then add "\"
<cbx33> what about ( and )
<EmxBA> pygi,can you help me
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: are you going to be able to make tomorrow's Cookbook meeting?
<EmxBA> erm...yes
<EmxBA> what do i need to do
<HedgeMage> mostly just show up :)
<EmxBA> on IRC, right?
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: if you're on the edubuntu-devel list, we're having some pre-meeting discussions there.
<HedgeMage> yep, #ubuntu-meeting
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> tomorrow?
<HedgeMage> Thursday at 20:00 UTC
<pygi> HedgeMage, I just hope I'll be able to attend :-/
<HedgeMage> (tomorrow for me, don't know what time zone you're in)
<EmxBA> it's ok
<HedgeMage> pygi: I hope so too, if you miss this one we'll understand, it was scheduled very last-minute
<EmxBA> currently for me it is 10:02 UTC
<EmxBA> shouldn't I make any plans
<pygi> HedgeMage, well, mostly because I'll be unavailable for almost entire week from tommorow :-/
<HedgeMage> pygi: heading for Paris?
<pygi> EmxBA, it's not 10:02 UTC for you :P it's 8:02 for you
<pygi> HedgeMage, nop, not going to paris
<EmxBA> pygi, i though right now it is 10:02 UTC for me
<HedgeMage> ahh, well hopefully it's something equally interesting :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, not really :P
<EmxBA> timezone=sarajevo
<pygi> EmxBA, it's 8:02 UTC for you, and be shhh :)
<EmxBA> you mean now?
<pygi> yes :P
<EmxBA> or tomorrow?
<pygi> bleh
<HedgeMage> pygi: UTC is UTC, timezones are offset from UTC :P
<EmxBA> well in sarajevo it is 10:04. shhhhhh!
<pygi> HedgeMage, he doesn't get it :P
<EmxBA> i know what you want to say
<pygi> EmxBA, ofcourse, but not 10:04 UTC for sure :P
* HedgeMage sighs
<EmxBA> in sarajevo it is not UTC :-)
<pygi> o joy, he got it
<EmxBA> :)
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: the meeting is 36 hours from now, does that help?
<EmxBA> ok, ok, i get it :)
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> I could never keep track of time zones until I became a military wife, now it's a survival skill
<pygi> look at the comments ;)
<pygi> http://www.gnomefiles.org/comment.php?soft_id=1158#5494
<HedgeMage> brb
<pygi> oki
<EmxBA> pygi: what's up in Croatia :-)
<cbx33> EmxBA: ((i=0)); while [ "$i" != "1000" ] ; do echo $i; ((i += 1)); done>out.txt
<cbx33> is that what you're after?
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> let me try it...
<EmxBA> brb
<cbx33> pygi: there must be a built in function to encode a string to a shell-esque escaped filename
<cbx33> I used to get round it using quote marks
<EmxBA> how can i make it with strings, not with numbers, cbx33
<EmxBA> i mean pete :-P
<cbx33> call me cbx33, then it highlights the messages :p
<EmxBA> ok
<cbx33> EmxBA: what do you mean?
<cbx33> One Two Three?
<EmxBA> i want to get a file which consists (for example) of Number:1 to Number:2000
<EmxBA> instead of numbers i want strings
<EmxBA> maybe i$
<cbx33> give me two lines of what the file should look like
<pygi> cbx33, indeed, you are right
<cbx33> but I've looked high and low on the net and I can't find one, either that or no one has ever needed to do this before
<cbx33> but now I need to wrap the entire command in quotes
<cbx33> which is where that original method falls down
<EmxBA> [[Category:Years|1] ] 
<EmxBA> [[Category:Years|2] ] 
<EmxBA> ...
<EmxBA> [[Category:Years|999] ] 
<EmxBA> [[Category:Years|1000] ] 
<EmxBA> like that
<cbx33> ok
<EmxBA> anyway, tnx
<cbx33> EmxBA: ((i=0)); while [ "$i" != "1000" ] ; do echo "[[Category:Years|"$i"] ] "; ((i += 1)); done>out.txt
<cbx33> try that
<HedgeMage> back
<EmxBA> thanks a lot, cbx33
<EmxBA> i learned something new :)
<pygi> wb HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> pygi: very cool
<HedgeMage> pygi: nice feedback :)
<cbx33> this should work right?
<cbx33> gksudo 'tar -czvf "ack bogie.tar.gz" out.txt'
<cbx33> ah no it doesn't but this does
<cbx33> tar -czvf "ack bogie.tar.gz" out.txt
<cbx33> grr, so I can't use double sets of quotes
<EmxBA> hi highvoltage
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> hi EmxBA and cbx33. how are you this morning?
<cbx33> tired
<EmxBA> nice...you?
<cbx33> 2 hours sleep dur to redecorating
<EmxBA> i am sick
<EmxBA> not a lot
<highvoltage> like a cold?
<EmxBA> yes
<cbx33> :(
<EmxBA> very strange in the almost summer :)
<highvoltage> perhaps it's allergies?
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> just a cold
<EmxBA> hm...hedgemage said "EmxBA: are you going to be able to make tomorrow's Cookbook meeting?"
<EmxBA> what has he meant by that
* pygi wants gnome 2.14.2 in dapper this very second :P
<cbx33> highvoltage: thankx for the feedback on the open cd
<EmxBA> you expect me to show up on ubuntu-meeting?
* cbx33 whinges at pygi...
<pygi> EmxBA, first of all, it's she (at least I think :P)
<pygi> Second of all ...
<pygi> why you responded if you don't know what she was talking about?
<highvoltage> cbx33: it's strange that someone didn't think of it before, great idea, btw.
<pygi> cbx33, yes? :)
<cbx33> how do you suggest i proceed?
<EmxBA> or something more? I would like to do anything I should (plan something or something like that)
<cbx33> make my own fuction
<pygi> cbx33, yup :)
<EmxBA> pygi, i answered because i know what she was taking about, just I was never on Edubuntu Meetings :-)
<cbx33> :(
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: I was just wondering if you will be in #ubuntu-meeting for the meeting, since you applied to join the team on launchpad :)
<EmxBA> I wil be there, i think
<EmxBA> *will, maybe, 80 % sure
<HedgeMage> okay :)
<EmxBA> ok
* EmxBA thohgt HedgeMage is a male
<EmxBA> *thought
<HedgeMage> nope, I'm a woman :)
* EmxBA is ashamed :_)
* EmxBA know HedgeMage is a woman
<HedgeMage> no big deal, almost everyone does that when they first meet me on IRC :)
<EmxBA> ok...
<EmxBA> where does GNOME keep GDM themes?
<cbx33> um
<cbx33>  /usr/share/gdm/themes?
<EmxBA> brb
<cbx33> pygi: do you not agree that that is silly, there should be a function for that
<pygi> cbx33, I do agree :P
<EmxBA> cbx33: yes, /usr/share/gdm/themes/
<EmxBA> did anyone had problems with connecting to FTP server using gFTP
<EmxBA> i use passive mode and i connect ok
<EmxBA> "230 Login successful."
<EmxBA> "227 Entering Passive Mode (80,65,162,210,30,180)
<EmxBA> Cannot create a data connection: No route to host"
<EmxBA> "disconnected"
<cbx33> pygi: http://docs.python.org/lib/string-methods.html#string-methods
<cbx33> there is supposed to be an encode function to do it
<cbx33> actually no there isn't thats an error thingy
<cbx33> oooh actually
* cbx33 tries something
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> dang it
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: it's working fine for me, but I'm on my gentoo box right now
<EmxBA> what? gftp?
<EmxBA> it works fine for me too in normal mode
* EmxBA realises that there is no need for passive mode
<pygi> HedgeMage, bonfire is going to go into gentoo portage ;)
<EmxBA> pygi: nice!
<pygi> HedgeMage, preety soon that should happen, so if you have gnome 2.14.2 ?!
<EmxBA> HedgeMage: how can i allow directory listing for my ftp site 
<EmxBA> for example, if someone types exact folder (in firefox, maybe), thatis http://emir.linux.org.ba/wp-content/edubuntu/, the access is forbidden for them
<EmxBA> can i change it?
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: it depends on how the server is configured.
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: is it managed hosting or your own box?
<EmxBA> so i cannot change it in gftp
<EmxBA> no 
<EmxBA> not my box
<HedgeMage> no, you can't change it from gftp
<EmxBA> :-(
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> doesn't matter
<HedgeMage> you'd have to talk to whomever admins the box
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> HedgeMage
<EmxBA> did you ever used any type of wireless cards
<EmxBA> in my case, PCMCIA
<EmxBA> i had few problems
<EmxBA> ?
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: I had a PCMCIA wifi card on my last laptop
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: what type is it?
<EmxBA> erm, i have Orinoco 802.11b PCMCIA card
<EmxBA> with normal kernel drivers it doesn't support scanning
<EmxBA> but with drivers from kismetwireless.com (something like that) you can normally scan around
<HedgeMage> sorry, I've not used the orinocos (outside my price range)... mine was an Atheros-based card by D-Link
<EmxBA> maybe i should try #ubuntu...
<EmxBA> is there any #ubuntu-wireless or similar?
<HedgeMage> not AFAIK
<HedgeMage> but I can't keep track of all the chans on this network :P
<cbx33> sure you can HedgeMage 
<EmxBA> cbx33: did you have any PCMCIA wireless cards?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I have 3
<EmxBA> any orinoco?
<DanielC_zzzzz> Has anyone heard of PLF? Is this repository "safe":
<DanielC_zzzzz> ftp://ftp.free.fr/pub/Distributions_Linux/plf/ubuntu/plf/
<DanielC> oops
<HedgeMage> DanielC: I've heard of it, and they're pretty good in a technical sense.  I'm not qualified to comment on the legal ramifications of their packages in any jurisdiction, however.
<HedgeMage> DanielC: I've used them before with no problems.
<DanielC> HedgeMage: Ok, thanks. Yes, I was asking about the technical side, not the legal side.
<HedgeMage> :)
* DanielC is glad he is not in the USA so he has fewer legal issues to worry about.
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> DanielC: what's really scary is that things like adoption, education, privacy, etc are totally broken, and our lawmakers spend all their time on new ways to enforce broken copyright/patent law.
<DanielC> Indeed :(
<EmxBA> can anyone help me with my wiki page
<EmxBA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmirBeganovic
<EmxBA> it shows picture
<EmxBA> i don't want that
<EmxBA> i've just gave a link
<DanielC> Does anyone know what "banshee", "f-splot" and "streamtuner" are?
<EmxBA> and it shows last picture
<pygi> DanielC, f-spot* :P
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> pygi: I take it that you know what it is?
<pygi> yup :)
<pygi> Photo managment application :)
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Any idea what the the others do?
<EmxBA> anyone? help me with my wiki page
* EmxBA wants someone's help
<pygi> Banshee - Complete music management and playback on Gnome.
<pygi> streamtuner - A stream directory browser.
<DanielC> pygi: Is banshee like rythmbox? (I don't know much about this "music" stuff)
<pygi> With Banshee you can easily import, manage, and play selections from your music collection. Banshee allows you to import CDs, sync your music collection to an iPod, play music directly from an iPod, create playlists with songs from your library, and create audio and MP3 CDs from subsets of your library. A metadata editor is also included.
<DanielC> Cool.
<DanielC> Not something I need, but cool anyways :)
* pygi is once again boring all the people, so vote: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158 :)
<cbx33> EmxBA: what's up
<EmxBA> can you help me with my wiki page
<EmxBA> i can't explain you
<EmxBA> just go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmirBeganovic
<EmxBA> try to fix this picture, please :)
<DanielC> EmxBA: Fixed
<EmxBA> tnx
<DanielC> - *[http://emir.linux.org.ba/wp-content/edubuntu/red.png] 
<DanielC> + *[http://emir.linux.org.ba/wp-content/edubuntu/red.png Red] 
<EmxBA> just that?
<EmxBA> tnx
<DanielC> :)
<EmxBA> do you like logos?
<EmxBA> have you seen them anyway?
* DanielC takes a look
<DanielC> I like them. I'm not crazy about the green one, but I like the others.
* EmxBA is glad that someone finnaly looks his logos :-)
<DanielC> :-)
<EmxBA> which one you like the most
<EmxBA> you haven't fixed this:"I've made few Edubuntu logos, same logo just different colors and few effects added, nothing special.  ===Edubuntu logos=== Here are some redesigned Edubuntu logos which I made. * Blue "
<DanielC> It'd depend on what I wanted to do with it, but the glass one is "interesting".
<EmxBA> let me fix it
<EmxBA> brb
<EmxBA> tnx!
<HedgeMage> Okay, I'm *really* going to bed this time
<HedgeMage> I'll see you all tomorrow
* HedgeMage waves
<DanielC> Night
<cbx33> nn HedgeMage 
<EmxBA> maybe i should redesign it so it can be used on Edubuntu 6.10 :-)
<EmxBA> cbx33: please look at my logos
* cbx33 looks
<EmxBA> ok
<cbx33> what are they for
<DanielC> Edubuntu :)
<EmxBA> ?
<EmxBA> nothing
<EmxBA> for Edubuntu, of course
<DanielC> cbx33: I figure that EmxBA just likes drawing. No particular "purpose".
<cbx33> :)
<DanielC> Since when do we need a reason to do art? :)
* cbx33 hides from DanielC 
<EmxBA> DanielC: hehe
<cbx33> true
<DanielC> heh
<EmxBA> i just drawed them, nothing bad in that
<cbx33> cool
<DanielC> Maybe someone should do an Edubuntu logo competition. That would be fun.
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> i will organise that, DanielC
<DanielC> The OpenOffice schools project once had a mascot competition. That was a lot of fun.
<pygi> DanielC, we have a  logo :P
<DanielC> pygi: I said mascot :)
<DanielC> The winner was a 16 year old student from Italy who wants to be a graphics designer.
<pygi> Maybe someone should do an Edubuntu logo competition. That would be fun.
<pygi> I quote :P
<EmxBA> are there any similar competitions right now ?
<DanielC> Now her work is used all over the world by a prominent open source project.
<DanielC> EmxBA: None that I'm aware of.
<spacey> edubuntu logo is quite nice i think
<DanielC> pygi:  Ok, I stand corrected. But how about a mascot? Just for fun.
<DanielC> We could even have a mascot of the year, so we can have more competitions.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> EmxBA: start drawing an Eft :p
<cbx33> and Edgy Eft :p
<DanielC> Because we are dealing with schools, this would be a good way to get kids involved.
<DanielC> cbx33: Oh! that's an idea!
<DanielC> A competition for each release.
<DanielC> For Dapper we draw a Drake; for Edgy we draw an Eft.
* DanielC wonders what an eft is.
<DanielC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt
<DanielC> An Eft is a young Newt, and a newt is a type of lizzard.
<DanielC> This could be a good way to get schools involved. I have a school who would likely be interested. They are primary kids though.
<pygi> that thing looks almost like a fish :P
<cbx33> is there a list of special characters for use in bash
<EmxB1> sorry
<EmxB1> i had to recconect
<EmxBA> hi again :-)
<EmxBA> so, where were we?
<EmxBA> i asked are there any similar competitions like something logo competition
<DanielC> EmxBA: No competitions that I know of. But I suggested that Edubuntu could have one for each release.
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> maybe during summer 
<DanielC> EmxBA: For Dapper it'd be a Drake and for Edgy it'd be an Eft.
<cbx33> DanielC: why not bring it up in the meeting today?
<DanielC> it's a thought.
<EmxBA> summer Edubuntu competition
<EmxBA> DanielC, cbx33, you gave me an idea
<DanielC> cbx33: There's a meeting today? When? Where? Is anyone allowed to come?
<cbx33> sure
<EmxBA> today on meeting i'll talk about logo competition
<cbx33> 12 UTC
<EmxBA> something redesigned
<cbx33> I don't know if they'll be open to changing the logo
<DanielC> cbx33: Ok, in 1h 23min. Which channel? Here?
<EmxBA> ubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> 2h 23
<EmxBA> cbx33: maybe edubuntu will be open
<DanielC> EmxBA: A logo competition is not likely to be accepted. They won't want to change the logo. A mascot competition is easier to sell.
<cbx33> the logo is kinda solid throughout *ubuntu
<cbx33> definitely
<pygi> ergh, I won't be able to attend again :(
<cbx33> awww
<EmxBA> no, wallpaper competition
<DanielC> Wallpapers are good.
<EmxBA> i would like something better than "Edubuntu Girl"
<cbx33> wallpapers are good
<DanielC> :)
<cbx33> EmxBA: like the homies?
<EmxBA> :-) i like the wallpapers
<DanielC> cbx33: Is the meeting for Edubuntu specifically or all Ubuntu?
<cbx33> but the main wallpaper is chosen by canonical
<cbx33> this meeting is just edubuntu
<DanielC> good :)
<DanielC> I don't like crowds ;-)
<EmxBA> this meeting at 20 UTC is only *only* about Edubuntu
<EmxBA> nice
<DanielC> 12UTC... right?
<DanielC> In 2h 20min.
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> 1h 20 min
<cbx33> 2hr 20
<DanielC> Right now it is 10:40UTC.
<EmxBA> yes
<cbx33> goto #ubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> DanielC: are you in the UK?
* DanielC adds a reminder in Kalarm.
<DanielC> cbx33: Yes. Tamworth, near Birmingham.
<cbx33> you are not UTC time
<cbx33> cos of the BST
<cbx33> if you goto the meeting channel
<EmxBA> people, evolution crashed on my box few hrs ago
<cbx33> and type @schedule london
<EmxBA> i cannot run it now
<EmxBA> what to do
<cbx33> you'll get the times for the meeting
<DanielC> cbx33: Blimey, you're right. It's the summer when we're not on UTC.
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<EmxBA> on #ubuntu-meeting there is no Edubuntu Cookbook on 14 June
<EmxBA> just 15 June
<EmxBA> thatis tommorow?
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> anyone?
<DanielC> EmxBA: Channel topic says 14
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> in 1j 9 min
<DanielC> Calendar says 14 too.
<EmxBA> *1h 1 min
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> @schedule sarajevo
<EmxBA> or @schedule london says 15 june
<DanielC> Says 14 :)
<EmxBA> for edubuntu
<EmxBA> for edubuntu-cookbook it is tomorrow
<EmxBA> that's what i want to say
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> What's cookbook?
<EmxBA> huhu.....
* EmxBA cannot explain
<EmxBA> try google :-)
<DanielC> Google will probably tell me that a coobook is a book with cooking recipes.
<EmxBA> brb
<EmxBA> see https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks
<DanielC> *click*
<EmxBA> click https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks
<pygi> bluekuja, poke poke?
<EmxBA> :D
<DanielC> On the wiki, how do you make it *not* turn a capitalized word into a link?
<pygi> bluekuja, considering I'll run away soon, can we finish server today pls.? :)
<EmxBA> anyone, visit "Skolarci" again
<EmxBA> maybe http://skolarci.linux.org.ba/index.php?option=com_poll&task=results&id=14
<EmxBA> do you like design now?
<EmxBA> you told me it would be better something orange
<EmxBA> i just need to change the banner
<EmxBA> reconnected again :(
<JaneW> is there an edubuntu meeting today?
<EmxBA> hi janew
<JaneW> and if so can I be a normal observer?
<EmxBA> bluekuja told me that  should contact you
<ogra> JaneW, nope, forbidden !
<EmxBA> for the edubuntu artwork
<EmxBA> JaneW ?
<ogra> JaneW, indeed we want you in that meeting :)
* ogra hugs JaneW 
<JaneW> ogra: :?
<JaneW> :/
<EmxBA> JaneW: i think i should introduce myself
<lucasvo> JaneW: good bye JaneW !
* EmxBA wants to talk with JaneW
<DanielC> Hi JaneW. Yes come. Not sure if you remember me from last year, I was the guy installing Edubuntu at a primary school.
<DanielC> I'll be there as an observer.
<lucasvo> JaneW: where will you work in future?
<JaneW> am I gonna be banned? *sulk*
<JaneW> *grin*
<ogra> :)
* pygi is sorry for not being able to attend the meeting so...
<EmxBA> JaneW: please listen to me, maybe i look like n00b, but I'm not
<lucasvo> EmxBA: strong statement :)
<EmxBA> lucasvo: :/
* EmxBA shooks
<lucasvo> EmxBA: just kidding
<EmxBA> ok
<DanielC> EmxBA: You don't look like a noob, you just look 14 :)
<lucasvo> DanielC: you are mean :P
<EmxBA> i know
<DanielC> He *is* 14
<EmxBA> i am youngest :))))))
<DanielC> It was meant to be funny.
<DanielC> Sorry if it came out the wrong way.
<EmxBA> yes, it is funny indeed
<EmxBA> no, np
<pygi> JaneW, I hope it all works out well for you
<JaneW> EmxBA: hi
<JaneW> pygi: thanks
<EmxBA> hi at last :)
<JaneW> pygi: did you get my SoC email last week? no one responded...
<JaneW> lucasvo: I'll be consulting to a mobile telco
<pygi> JaneW, about some other guy taking over admin position of SoC?
<JaneW> yes doko
<pygi> got that
<ogra> JaneW, doko ? 
* ogra didnt know that
<cbx33> boo ogra 
<cbx33> got a sec to talk?
* ogra tries to imagine doko with a whip ...
* ogra falls dead laughing
<cbx33> had an idea need to know if you think it's whorthwhile producing a spec for
<EmxBA> :)
<ogra> cbx33, shoot
<cbx33> it's basically a bug fixing helper package
<cbx33> basically you run the program the bug is in from within this pacakge
<cbx33> it can record your actions
<ogra> like bug buddy you mean ? 
<cbx33> and records stdout and stderr
<cbx33> and possibly other information
<JaneW> ogra: I mailed las thursday titled "Google SoC Update - Please report MIA Students"
<JaneW> ogra: that bad?
<ogra> well, usually you need a proper gdb backtrace to debug C programs ...
<cbx33> and then maybe have a direct interface to LP
<cbx33> worth persuing?
<EmxBA> can anyone help me registering channel
<ogra> JaneW, not really, but he's surely not the whipcracking guy 
<cbx33> I was trying to make it really easy for people to submit bugs, and for us to get the "info" we need
<JaneW> ogra: maybe he can get ppl to do things by being nice
<ogra> cbx33, i think there is a SoC project doing something similar 
<bluekuja> hello guys
<EmxBA> hi andrea
<bluekuja> hey :)
<bluekuja> pygi: ping
<cbx33> *bah* my brain has wiped the info already
<cbx33> for get I spoke :p
<pygi> bluekuja, poke, I run in like 5 seconds :P
<ogra> JaneW, i think this time everybody is fine caring for his student, will be easier for him than it was for you last time 
<ogra> so probably no whip is needed :)
<bluekuja> pygi: there are some errors in build requires, i tried to build it in mock
<bluekuja> gnome-vfs
<pygi> ogra, can we include this in edubuntu? ( I know we cannot, but I have to ask :P)
<pygi> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158
<ogra> cbx33, you should look it up and see if there are things missing you had in your idea
<pygi> bluekuja, no worries about that for now :)
<pygi> We can do that even next week
<pygi> server is priority ;)
<EmxBA> bluekuja, can you help me? i want to register channel.
<bluekuja> pygi: ok, perfect
<bluekuja> pygi: i fix login
<bluekuja> and svn
<EmxBA> Andrea?
<cbx33> ogra: I wanted to ask a quick python question
<ogra> pygi, why the heck should we include a 5th burning app in main ? 
<bluekuja> EmxBA, yes tell me
<pygi> ogra, because it's supported the best by upstream? :)
<bluekuja> which channel?
<EmxBA> do you have any link which explains how to register channel on freenode
<bluekuja> it's easy
<EmxBA> channel name?erm, that's secret :)
* EmxBA joking a lot :)
<ogra> pygi, thats serpentine as well, or gnomebaker or nautilus-cd-burner or k3b :)
<pygi> ogra, this can replace both serpentine and gnomebaker :)
<EmxBA> bluekuja: ?
<ogra> pygi, well, serpentine is duplicated stuff already that should be dropped
<bluekuja> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml
<bluekuja> all questions here
<pygi> ogra, I know we can't include it, just wanted to poke randomly because it's my application ^^
<ogra> we already have full audio burning capability in rhythmbox ...
<pygi> yup, I know...no worries :)
<bluekuja> anyway it's an easy process
<ogra> pygi, so package it up and push it to universe ;)
<EmxBA> ok
<pygi> ogra, bleh, yes, but that's not in "ship" with edubuntu :)
<cbx33> ogra: do you have a sec for apython question
<cbx33> I've been bugging pygi
<cbx33> i have a filename in a string 
<bluekuja> pygi: what do you want to be fixed more in server ?
<ogra> unless we'll drop nautilus we wont need a separate bunring app :)
<cbx33> but it has spaces and other chars in it
<bluekuja> pygi: so i can focus on that
<pygi> ogra, and you won't drop nautilus :P
<pygi> bluekuja, well, nothing, as long as it all works :)
<pygi> and see if domain works
<ogra> pygi, highly unlikely :)
<pygi> it's registered
<cbx33> how can i get python to convert it to a slashed version
<bluekuja> pygi: domain ready?
<pygi> bluekuja, yes
<cbx33> like
<ogra> cbx33, you can use a regex ...
<bluekuja> pygi: lets try it
<pygi> bluekuja, if you have problems with domain, poke "KillerX' in #banyantree
<pygi> bluekuja, I gotta run now
<bluekuja> pygi: k cya man later
<pygi> ogra, we could at least put gnomebaker in universe, and put Bonfire in main ;)
<bluekuja> highvoltage: jon :)
<EmxBA> everyone, join #edubuntu-bosnia :)
<ogra> pygi, iirc gnomebaker is in main because of xfce (i wouldnt have pulled it to main) talk to them to switch to it :)
<JaneW> ogra: yes it seems to be running better this year
<ogra> we all learned :)
<pygi> ogra, great, I'll poke them then :P
<cbx33> ogra: do you have any examples
<EmxBA> ping pygi :)
<pygi> bye all now
* EmxBA wants you all to join #edubuntu-bosnia
<pygi> EmxBA, I gotta run, sorry :P
<bluekuja> cya mario
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> bluekuja, join please
<ogra> cbx33, http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/
<EmxBA> i want to check something
<cbx33> cheers ogra 
<EmxBA> ping bluekuja
<bluekuja> EmxBA, yes?
<EmxBA> join #edubuntu-bosnia
<bluekuja> y?
<EmxBA> localized edubutn uchannel
<EmxBA> Andrea?
<EmxBA> ping bluekuja
<EmxBA> ping JaneW
<EmxBA> ping highvoltage
<ogra> DanielC, WOW, you got an answer from a sun employee for the openoffice question 
<DanielC> ogra: I did?
* ogra is pretty impressed
<ogra> yes
<EmxBA> danielC: he actually told you what's up nerd
<DanielC> ogra: Where?
<EmxBA> sorry
<EmxBA> someone is spamming us
<ogra> on ubuntu-users
<DanielC> ogra: I haven't seen that email yet. I hope it didn't just get lost.
<ogra> its in the mailinglist :)
* DanielC is worried that he might be missing some of the emails
<ogra> he broke the threading ...
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-June/082243.html
<DanielC> ogra: thanks
<ogra> but gives the way for a solution ...
<DanielC> Oh, I remember Kay.
<EmxBA> ogra: any special suggestions for edubuntu meeting
<DanielC> I think that's the guy I met in Slovenia.
<ogra> i''ll see if we can incorporate that, so we have only firefox left with the multiple user problem
<EmxBA> or edubuntu-cookbook meeting?
<DanielC> ogra: Cool :)
<ogra> well, FF will be evil to work around
<ogra> it is much worse than OOo
<ogra> ff tends to hold all userdata in memory while you have it open ...
<ogra> it only writes config changes if you close it
<DanielC> ogra: Firefox is the same. Give it a different profile.
<DanielC> ogra: "firefox -P profile_name"
<ogra> so that will get very hairy to run for multiple people logged in with the same user
<DanielC> ogra: It will. And so will the OpenOffice solution.
<DanielC> They look equally bad to me.
<ogra> yeah
<EmxBA> can anyone help me with this silly evolution problem?
<ogra> and i wouldnt like any hackish workarounds ...
<ogra> (like login scripts or something like that *shudder*)
<highvoltage> EmxBA: pong
<EmxBA> just wondering if oyu could help me, evolution crashed few hrs ago and i can't run it now 
<ogra> EmxBA, for such questions #ubuntu is more appropriate 
<highvoltage> EmxBA: do you see any error messages when you run evolution from a terminal?
<EmxBA> just a sec.
<EmxBA> it just says "CalDAV Eplugin starting up ..." 
<EmxBA> and i should wait
<EmxBA> highvoltage: any solution
<highvoltage> EmxBA: hmmm... any evolution processes still running?
<highvoltage> perhaps try a killall evolution
<highvoltage> and then run evolution again
<highvoltage> egh... my lag is very high
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> it works now
* EmxBA is going soon
* EmxBA is leaving in few seconds
<ogra> ************* reminder, edubuntu meeting in ~1h in #ubuntu-meeting ***********
<ogra> highvoltage, never "killal evolution" ...
<ogra> that will leave all the backends running
<ogra> use evolution --force-shutdown instead
<ogra> but really, that belongs to #ubuntu
<EmxBA> i know, ogra
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks, that's a good tip
<EmxBA> give me something to download
<EmxBA> i need to spend my bandwidth :)
* EmxBA wants to download something, unlikely dist-upgrade
<DanielC> ogra: Here's an idea for OpenOffice: When it starts the script could wipe <path>/user* and called OOo with -env:UserInstallation=<path>/user<time>
<ogra> DanielC, yes thats one way to do it
<kbrooks> EDUBUNTU!
<highvoltage> kbrooks: indeed!
<highvoltage> ogra: have you had a chance to look at SIF yet?
<kbrooks> edubuntu sounds great :P
<highvoltage> i talked to helen king about it a few weeks ago, but from what I gather, it's not quite ready for implementation yet
<ogra> ********** reminder, edubuntu meeting in 30minutes in #ubuntu-meeting **********
<ogra> highvoltage, its a 10 year old implementation that was dropped by its developers
<ogra> i dont think its something for us yet ... as long as there is not more code
<DanielC> ogra: what usually happens at edubuntu meetings?
<ogra> (and as i understood sabdfl he agrees)
<ogra> DanielC, see the agenda (channel topic)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks for that insight
<DanielC> ogra: Channel topic doesn't have an agenda.
<bluekuja> MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda 
<kbrooks> i'm interested in edubuntu. but i'm not a school :P
<DanielC> Can anyone come?
<bluekuja> DanielC, yes
<kbrooks> i can
<cbx33> DanielC: yes
<kbrooks> i'm there already
<DanielC> :-)
<ogra> kbrooks, become one :P
<kbrooks> ogra: no :P
<ogra> heh
<DanielC> kbrooks: You could go to a local school and offer to setup a small thin client cyber cafe to try it out.
<kbrooks> DanielC: I'm ... 15
<DanielC> kbrooks: Suggest that they can reuse their old computers that they're about to throw out. Offer to do it for free.
<DanielC> kbrooks: Ok, so you already have contacts in your school :)
<kbrooks> DanielC: aha!
<kbrooks> DanielC: wait
<highvoltage> kbrooks: emxba is 14, and lucasvo is 16, iirc :)
<kbrooks> DanielC: pm me
<Yagisan> kbrooks: grow a beard ;)
<DanielC> heh
<kbrooks> so
<kbrooks> i'm looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy and its great in marketing
<bluekuja> kbrooks, that's a great page
<bluekuja> :)
<kbrooks> that too
<kbrooks> it's very professional
<kbrooks> no other "advocacy" pages surpass that
<bluekuja> hehe yeah, say thanks to cbx33 that had this great idea
<atomic007za> hi
<ogra> ********** reminder, edubuntu meeting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting **********
<bluekuja> atomic007za, hi
<kbrooks> cbx33: ping ;)
<atomic007za> hi bluekuja
<bluekuja> hello atomic007za 
<kbrooks> I have a question
<bluekuja> shoot
<kbrooks> keduca - do the teachers print the tests out?
<kbrooks> and give to students
<bluekuja> mmm... I really don't know. ogra?
<ogra> i dont think so
<ogra> ********** reminder, edubuntu meeting in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting **********
<kbrooks> ogra: OK. do the students open up tests? :)
<ogra> kbrooks, no idea. i never really used keduca beyond basic functionallity tests
<kbrooks> are you a teacher? :P
<ogra> kbrooks, nope
<bluekuja> ogra: have you seen this: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00021.html
<kbrooks> um
<kbrooks> when can I change the  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy page
<ogra> bluekuja, yes, its old 
<bluekuja> ogra: yep
<DanielC> ogra: I think everyone has. But since when is Linus an expert in usability?
<LaserJock> good morning!!!
<DanielC> Ooops, I meant to say that to bluekuja not ogra.
<ogra> DanielC, no idea ... i know for sure he's not an expert in licensing, else i'd have packaged the tool he once sent me for edubuntu
<cbx33> kbrooks: pong
<kbrooks> when can I change the  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy page ?
<DanielC> ogra: What did he send you?
<kbrooks> cbx33: thanks for the idea of that advocacy page. ;)
<ogra> ********** reminder, edubuntu meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting **********
<cbx33> kbrooks: that page is scheduled for delettion
<cbx33> it's now on
<ogra> DanielC, a tool to do timed logouts of students 
<cbx33> www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<kbrooks> cbx33: why is it scheduled for deletion?
<cbx33> cos it's moved
<ogra> but asked for a license he never sent anything and i cant package unlicensed stuff
<DanielC> ogra: Doesn't sound so bad. Did he pick a weird license?
<ogra> he added none at all .. thats the problem
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Did you ask him for a license?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> several times ... highvoltage as well
<DanielC> Hmmm...
<kbrooks> ogra: did linus respond?
<ogra> not after he sent that code, noi .
<ogra> thats why we cant include it 
<DanielC> :P
<kbrooks> ogra: sucks
<ogra> yes
<kbrooks> ogra: now i see where "ogra" comes from. first_name[0]  + last_name[:3]  :-)
<cbx33> yes ogra's does make sense
<ogra> yeah
<bluekuja> kbrooks: :D
<DanielC> Mine makes sense :)
<kbrooks> heh
<Yagisan> mine too (it you understand the history behind it)
<ogra> ********** reminder, edubuntu meeting starts NOW in #ubuntu-meeting **********
* Yagisan just lurking today
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<DanielC> Help. When I run 'top' the CPU line says "96% wa". What does that mean? I hope it means "waiting".
<slashdevnull> morning
<jsgotangco> hi
* jsgotangco hugs JaneW
<rodarvus> hello slashdevnull, jsgotangco 
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: meeting :-)
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: greetings
<jsgotangco> ooppss sorry
<slashdevnull> anyone here with good knowledge of ltsp? I upgraded to 6.06 and I'm borked.
* jsgotangco just arrived 
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: hehe, np just wanted to make sure you knew ;-)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: did you get it?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: my stress levels would also come down a bit if they let me know about mine
<jsgotangco> well i would have gotten it already if the french visa system didn't use windows
<jsgotangco> instead they had around 50 people at the consulate screaming for blood
<jsgotangco> and had us all go back on friday to pick up our passports
<LaserJock> cbx33: ?
<cbx33> 2 ticks
<cbx33> phojne rang
* pips1 arrives
<jsgotangco> seriously ive lost like 3 days at work just sorting this out
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: would that be just the system at your local embassy, or is it a problem in france?
<jsgotangco> i dunno its probably the embassy
<jsgotangco> or else i'll troll about french technology
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> ok I'm here
<cbx33> I wanted to talk to you guys about The Open CD
<LaserJock> yeah?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> oh yeah?
<slashdevnull> is this a good place to ask about ltsp problems on 6.06?
<cbx33> I had a call from heno last night
<jsgotangco> okay
<cbx33> as some of you know he founded the open cd project
<ogra> slashdevnull, the best :)
<cbx33> and he's now keen not to sit on it for too long
<jsgotangco> we've been planning it since a while but the livecd stuff had us busy
* jsgotangco actually has the sources
<cbx33> so I volunteered to help out
<LaserJock> of course :-)
<jsgotangco> im not surprised
<cbx33> basically he wants to remove the ubuntu stuff that was on there which leavs us with a few hundred Mb
<slashdevnull> thanks, ogra. I can't get my system to boot ltsp clients after upgrading to 6.06.
<jsgotangco> cbx33: that's easy
<jsgotangco> have you looked at the tree structure
<cbx33> and I think he is keen to kinda of partner up the edubuntu printed cd's with the Open CD
<ogra> slashdevnull, did you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes ?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I will be later on today
<slashdevnull> yesI think that the thin clients (Dell Dimension 5150) are 
<cbx33> I wanted to ask if you guys have any feedback on the CD itself as it stands
<slashdevnull> Er, sorry. yes
<jsgotangco> we have a tiny problem on the current UI
<cbx33> or if you have any cool ideas for how we could reinject some life into it
<cbx33> oh?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i don't think this is the proper forum to ask about the opencd
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'm sure highvoltage will disagree
<slashdevnull> ogra: I recreated the client chroot, removing the old one. several times now.
<cbx33> well, we just thought that seeing as there is a big market out there for young people to start with open source
<ogra> slashdevnull, so what are the symptoms ?
<cbx33> it seemed like a good idea to collect thoughts from the edubuntu gang
<slashdevnull> The thin client does not fully boot. I get an Ubuntu splash screen (nice touch) and it gets as far as mounting the filesystem, I believe.
<jsgotangco> i hacked up a version of the current k-meleon browser in my bzr branch
<cbx33> jsgotangco: cool
<highvoltage> ogra:  and i do :)
<ogra> slashdevnull, hmm, k, do you see a line like "rooserver: " if the splash goes away ?
<jsgotangco> the plan for OpenCD 4 is to remove the ubuntu liveCD
<cbx33> yes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i think #edubuntu is fine to discuss the educational version of the edu-open-cd
<jsgotangco> but there were interest on creating an education version since there was a demand in AU
<slashdevnull> ogra: I ctrl-F1 to a text screen, where the last line is: (just a sec while I get it)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: since the edu-open-cd and edubuntu distribution would make fine companions, and there's a bit of overlap
<jsgotangco> it wouldn't be hard to add apps on the current one
<jsgotangco> the problem is identifying stuff
<cbx33> esp with the extra space
<cbx33> jsgotangco: true
<jsgotangco> that
<cbx33> which is why I was putting my feelers out
<jsgotangco> that's what we've been stumped with for months
<LaserJock> what is the url?\
<slashdevnull> ogra: rootserver: 192.168.4.2 rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386
<cbx33> I must admit
<jsgotangco> i tried adding some games, but they proved to be too violent in nature for the current audience
<cbx33> www.theopencd.org
<cbx33> whoops
<jsgotangco> (Marathon for example)
<ogra> slashdevnull, 192.168.4.2 is definately your server ? 
<slashdevnull> ogra: Yes
<jsgotangco> cbx33: there is also redistribution
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> slashdevnull, can you try: sudo mount 192.168.4.2:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt and see what that gives you ?
<cbx33> I'm not saying it's going to be easy
* jsgotangco wonders if win32 squeak license is borked
<ogra> slashdevnull, from another linux box indeed
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: why?
<LaserJock> I can think of quite a few things to put on the open cd
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: ask ogra why we don't have squeak shipped
<cbx33> excellent
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I know about squeak ;-)
<ogra> we cant ship multiverse stuff
<cbx33> we also talked about internationalisation
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I just wondered why you thought there would be a difference between linux and w32
<jsgotangco> well frankly it was a random thought
<slashdevnull> ogra: I am trying that now from my workstation. May not work - I'm on another network segment. I'll need to boot a machine in our training room. Just a sec, please. And thanks for the help.
<LaserJock> cbx33: unfortunately most of the apps I could think of would not be very interesing for kids, more like high-school wanting to get into FLOSS stuff, and science of course ;-)
<jsgotangco> that's the thing
<cbx33> what about having the packages on there in english but all the browser content internationalised and translated in rosetta, we could then point to localised versions of software where it is available
<jsgotangco> cbx33: we were also thinking of relaxing the license requirements for inclusion
<jsgotangco> because admittedly, there are some way cool apps that require, say java
<jsgotangco> or even .NET
<jsgotangco> so just in case you didn't know, we gave it a thought too
<cbx33> jsgotangco: hmmm...
<slashdevnull> ogra: Mount seems to either not be happening, or is taking a long time. nfs problem?
<ogra> looks like
<cbx33> i wasn't aware but good thing to think about
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its worth pondering, after all, it is supposed to be free apps
<ogra> can you check /var/log/daemon.log to see if there is a proper errormessage ?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: what did you think to my take on internationalisation
<slashdevnull> ogra, from my log: Jun 14 09:11:12 zion2 mountd[4719] : authenticated mount request from station3.training.innovationsw.com:643 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp)
<slashdevnull> heh. I figured that's what you'd want next. ;)
<ogra> nothing below ? 
<slashdevnull> no
<jsgotangco> but it wouldn't really help much if the long term plan is migration to a free software platform =)
<ogra> like auth failed or something ? 
<slashdevnull> nope
<ogra> hmm, strange
<slashdevnull> just the request.
<ogra> can you look at the workstation as well ? 
<cbx33> jsgotangco: true
<jsgotangco> cbx33: let me review the email again 
<slashdevnull> this is ubuntu 6.06, btw. not edubuntu. I don't know if there are differences.
<slashdevnull> I should have said that up front. sorry about that
<ogra> nope, there arent ...
<cbx33> jsgotangco: ok cool
<slashdevnull> ok.
<ogra> ltsp is the same in all *buntus
<slashdevnull> what would you like from the workstation?
<ogra> same log, look for failures
<jsgotangco> cbx33: in case you didn't know, Kubuntu has some nice win32 apps on the desktop cd too that might be worth considering
<ogra> (or probably check /var/log/messages since there likely wont be anything in the daemon.log on the client side)
<jsgotangco> way different from the one in gnome
<highvoltage> bluekuja: i got hold of znarl
<cbx33> right
<highvoltage> bluekuja: where should the dns of it.edubuntu.org point to?
<slashdevnull> aha
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i did not read anything about internationalisation
<bluekuja> highvoltage: just a moment I give you the link
<cbx33> hang on I'll paste again
<slashdevnull> maybe portmap...? here's a log entry
<cbx33> what about having the packages on there in english but all the browser content internationalised and translated in rosetta, we could then point to localised versions of software where it is available
<ogra> slashdevnull, from what exactly did you upgrade to 6.06 ?
<slashdevnull> Jun 14 09:29:42 localhost kernel: [4294810.471000]  RPC: failed to contact portmap (errno -5).
<highvoltage> cbx33: what you're saying is related to bluekuja's site?
<cbx33> so in essence the cd is multilingual - but only has engilsh on it, but points to other languages
<ogra> (is that machine hoary based ?)
<slashdevnull> The server was previously Ubuntu 5.10, running ltsp.
<cbx33> highvoltage: no
<ogra> hmm, k 
<slashdevnull> The clients run fat or thin, depending on how we need them
<ogra> slashdevnull, check if portmap runs on both ends 
<slashdevnull> they are Dell Dimension 5150's with ATI vbideo cards. I think I had fglrx in there before
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, just checking
<slashdevnull> orger
<slashdevnull> portmap *is* running on the server. It was not on the workstation
<ogra> and if it does, check /etc/default/portmap if its bound to the loopback device or something ... that file must be empty (or completely commmented)
<slashdevnull> installing it on workstation now...
<slashdevnull> cat /etc/default/portmap: # By default, listen only on the loopback interface
<slashdevnull> OPTIONS=""
<jsgotangco> cbx33: hmmm it shouldn't be that difficult its just a bunch of strings
<jsgotangco> cbx33: have you heard of the moin option before?
<cbx33> no?
<ogra> slashdevnull, fine
<cbx33> jsgotangco: go on
<cbx33> sorry I'm still new to all this
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its fine
<ogra> slashdevnull, did you restart portmap on the server after upgrading ? 
<slashdevnull> I rebooted the server. So, yes
<jsgotangco> cbx33: the current one you're familiar right? just a bunch of static pages
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> cbx33: but the 3.1 CD has MoinMoin Desktop
<ogra> (you likely did reboot for a new kernel...)
<ogra> yeah
<slashdevnull> The thin client worked, initially, btw, after upgrading the server. I think it still had the previous kernel in memory, however.
<cbx33> jsgotangco: oooh nice
<ogra> damn lag here
<slashdevnull> if that makes sense
<slashdevnull> when I rebooted the thin client, it stopped working.
<jsgotangco> cbx33: henrik is a bit of a Moin nut, so he experimented on using Moin as the interface of TOC itself
<jsgotangco> but should run on the CD
<cbx33> wow
<jsgotangco> we tried it both but the results werent that good
<cbx33> from what point of vierw?
<jsgotangco> it was reading the CD madly
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> i can imagine
<jsgotangco> BUT
<jsgotangco> imagine if Moin itself ran everything
<jsgotangco> localisation can be done by people on the website itself
<cbx33> true
<jsgotangco> then we just lift them
<ogra> slashdevnull, hmm, what does your /etc/exports contain ? there should be only one line exporting /opt/ltsp in readonly mode 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: have you seen orchard
<cbx33> heard of it
<jsgotangco> cbx33: orchard.theopencd.org
<jsgotangco> that is the moin experiment
<cbx33> ahhh cool
<slashdevnull> ogra: /etc/exports: /opt/kickstart  *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<slashdevnull> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<ogra> ok, looks sane
<slashdevnull> We are also kickstart installing from this server. I can remove that for nwo
<slashdevnull> for now
<ogra> no need to
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> its surely a portmap problem 
<ogra> do you run *any* firewall stuff on that machine ? 
<slashdevnull> The last thing I see in the splash screen is that the filesystem is mounted (it says "ok" on the right hand side. Then the screen goes black
<cbx33> I'm gonna have to dash
<cbx33> but we got some great ideas there jsgotangco 
<cbx33> I'll be back
<slashdevnull> I don't think that there are any firewall rules. I'll check.
<ogra> slashdevnull, and then you get the mount error ? 
<slashdevnull> The mount error does not show up on the splash. it's on the plaintext screen (alt-F1)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: if you change the moin theme to TOC, it'll look exaclty like 3.1
<slashdevnull> Er, not mount error. The other stuff
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> slashdevnull, i mean the splash goes away and drops you to a console, right ? or does it just stay black eternally at some later point
<jsgotangco> cbx33: so to answer your question on 18ln, yes, its possible
<slashdevnull> it just stays black. I manually go to the other screen via alt-F1
<ogra> aha
<ogra> so it doesnt break on mounting ... thats different 
<slashdevnull> sorry. I should have been more specific
<slashdevnull> ogra: Here's what I see: I boot the system, and see the scrolling text I'm used to seeing. Then, it's replaced with a splash screen. I get two items on that splash, the second of which seems to complete, then the screen goes black.
<ogra> anything on console 8 ? 
<slashdevnull> I think that;s the one that goes black.
<slashdevnull> When I've been saying plash screen, I men the Ubuntu splash, not the PXE info
<ogra> 7 should go black, 8 should have the bootmessages that are hidden by usplash
<slashdevnull> ah. let me check
<ogra> i could imagine its an ati problem ...
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: does the openCD have python?
<slashdevnull> ogra: Once it goes black, the only screen I can read anything on is alt-f1
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: interestingly no
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: some nice stuff created on pygame would work 
<slashdevnull> so, can I configure around that with corg.conf or something? Try using vesa driver?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: wha? Don't you need python for the desktop moin?
<slashdevnull> i'm grasping at straws, here
<jsgotangco> it think it installs python for its own use
<LaserJock> yeah, ok.
<ogra> slashdevnull, yes, try creating a lts.conf with XSERVER=vesa
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I use Windows quite a bit and have put lots of FLOSS stuff on it
<ogra> it will be hellish slow though
<cbx33> LaserJock: can't wait to hear your ideas :p
<slashdevnull> Just that one line, or the [Default]  stanza as well?
<ogra> in the default stanza 
<slashdevnull> ok
<LaserJock> cbx33: nothing cool, nobody cares about the stuff that is cool to me, unfortunately
<jsgotangco> i use windows too but i only use it for games
<cbx33> awww
* cbx33 does
<cbx33> nobody cares much about acoustical engineering
* cbx33 knows LaserJock cares about gisomount :p
<ogra> cbx33, i do
<cbx33> really ?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: do you think a grade schooler would care too
<ogra> cbx33, i used to build high end hifi stuff years ago with a friend
<cbx33> hmmm if we made it so you blastered away eveil aliens with non-linear differntial equation gun they might
<cbx33> ogra: coool
<cbx33> I never knew that :p
<ogra> i never talk about it :)
<cbx33> I built a speaker once for a project at uni
<LaserJock> I put latex, Python, bzr, chemistry modeling, emacs/vim, gnuplot, etc.
<cbx33> pretty good freq responce
<cbx33> even then though my interest was computer related
<JaneW> BYE EVERYONE
<ogra> JaneW, !!
<cbx33> bye JaneW 
<JaneW> highvoltage: cyber hug - I am runnign late
<LaserJock> cya JaneW, we love you!!
<JaneW> I may be around for a while tomorrow :)
<ogra> we'll get richard to pull you in from time to time :)
<JaneW> ogra: yes, do :)
<cbx33> wrote a synthesizer for my thesis - took octave notes at two velocities and interpolated the rest of the notes :p
<JaneW> I'll get in on line tomorrow and show him some of the ropes
<ogra> JaneW, i'm also pondering making a "JaneW status" item for the fixed meeting agenda ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: *cyber hug*
<highvoltage> JaneW: oh, you are at the office?
<cbx33> heheh
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes
<ogra> so he can tell us how you're doing ;)
* highvoltage runs to JaneW 
<LaserJock> ogra: hehe, good idea
<JaneW> highvoltage: but haven;t had a change to get across there
<ogra> highvoltage, give her a long tight hug from me
* cbx33 too
<slashdevnull> ogra: No dice so far. Want my lts.conf?
<ogra> slashdevnull, yep, paste it to a pastebin
<jsgotangco> lookee what i found in our new tollway today
<jsgotangco> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/167099945/
<jsgotangco> =D
<DanielC> Could someone explain how I know if a package is supported for 3 years or 5?
<DanielC> (Dapper)
<slashdevnull> http://pastebin.com/708485
<ogra> all desktop depending stuff in main == 3 years, everything else == 5
<LaserJock> ogra: bah, seb128 is always a tought sell for me, to bad he's so darn good ;-)
<LaserJock> s/tought/tough/
<DanielC> ogra: How do I know which things are "desktop"? For example, an Edubuntu server will have a lot of things I'd normally think of as desktop (Firefox).
<ogra> slashdevnull, X_MODE_0  = 1280x1024 isnt respected at all, X_COLOR_DEPTH = 24 is the default anyway, are yu sure the values for X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH are correct ? 
<slashdevnull> ogra: this is a slightly modified version of what worked before upgrading. just changed XSERVER and commented out the last line as part of troubleshooting
<ogra> LaserJock, we'll soften him, dont worry
<slashdevnull> I believe that they are, ogra. Worked with the last version
<ogra> DanielC, yes, edubuntu is a 3 year candidate
<LaserJock> ogra: I think he'd kill me if he saw that I had MOTU Science push >50 new .desktops in Dapper ;-)
<ogra> slashdevnull, comment everything but XSERVER for now and try again
<slashdevnull> ogra, should I uncomment the config file line, or lose it?
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> the XF86CONFIG_FILE wont work 
<DanielC> ogra: So, when they say "5 years on the server" they are talking about things like LAMP? And Edubuntu is only supported for 3 years?
<ogra> its the one detected on the server during ltsp-build-client ...
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm back, she came back with me to say goodbye to someone in my office, but i'll give her that long hard hug just now
<ogra> so it only applies to the servers X setup... and gets overwritten on boot ... *unless* you set XF86CONFIG_FILE ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, thanks ... give her two ... she deservers it ... no, giver her 10 !
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i might have hurt her
<slashdevnull> ogra: Same results. No dice
<ogra> DanielC, edubuntu and ltsp both rely on desktop stuff 
<highvoltage> ogra: it was just one hug, she has run away now, so i cna't do the other 9
<slashdevnull> Ah, DanielC from the lists. Hello.
<JaneW> ogra: my arm is now dislocated - thanks! :p
<DanielC> ogra: ok
<ogra> DanielC, indeed the non desktop related components will be supported for 5 years (i.e. the dhcp server)
<JaneW> highvoltage: thanks for the awesome hugs :))
<highvoltage> JaneW: *hugs* :)
<JaneW> ok gotta run
<JaneW> I will pop in tomorrow
<ogra> JaneW, i wanted you to take something with you from us :P
* DanielC waves at slashdevnull
<ogra> ciao JaneW 
<highvoltage> ciao JaneW 
<bddebian> Heya
<highvoltage> hey bddebian 
<highvoltage> bddebian: are you going to paris?
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<slashdevnull> Hrmm... "The one detected on the server duting ltsp-build-client"...?
<bddebian> highvoltage: No :-(
<highvoltage> :(
<slashdevnull> ogra: I upgraded the server via ssh. I have no idea if X is running properly on it right now, directly, I mean.
<ogra> slashdevnull, yes, xorg checks the existing hardware during package install
<ogra> since you run ltsp-build-client on the server it generates a xorg.conf for the server ...
<slashdevnull> Does that mean that the server and thin clients need to have similar/same video hardware?
<DanielC> Damm it. Installing Ubuntu on another computer and the screen went black again.
<DanielC> Dapper is severely broken if a lot of being are being hit by this issue.
<ogra> during boot the client calls dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and generates the *real* one
<slashdevnull> ok
<DanielC> How are users expected to finish installation if the screen goes black?
<DanielC> I'm doing an oem install. I can't complete it without a screen.
<slashdevnull> The xorg.conf that the server was creating via ltsp-build-client, iirc, set up with "ati" as the video driver.
* DanielC doesn't know what to do
<ogra> if XF86CONFIG_FILE is set that step is skipped in the bootprocess and the file you pointed to is used 
* DanielC wonders if he should power off the computer or something
* DanielC is getting worried, he can't finish the install if the screen is black
<ogra> so with XF86CONFIG_FILE = /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf you had forced it to use the same setup your server has in /etc/X11/xorg.conf ...
<ogra> (at least they should be the same)
<slashdevnull> I think there are differences.
<ogra> anyway, its wrong :)
<slashdevnull> ogra: I can wipe /opt/ltsp/i386 and start over, if that helps
<DanielC> ogra: What can I do? The screen went black mid-way through an oem install. Help.
<ogra> use XF86CONFIG_FILE like: XF86CONFIG_FILE = /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf.client1 ...
<ogra> (and create that file indeed)
<ogra> in case you dont want the autodetection at all 
<cbx33> DanielC: don;t press Alt+Tab
<cbx33> it crashes progress bars
<ogra> DanielC, no idea, i have never ever done an oem install in my life
<DanielC> cbx33: I haven't done anything yet. What can I do?
<cbx33> no you get me to do them :p
<ogra> (i probably should)
<ogra> slashdevnull, so with only keeping vesa in the file it still didnt work ? 
<DanielC> This is the second time this happens, out of two computers. This is *bad*.
<DanielC> The first time I was setting up an Edubuntu server.
<slashdevnull> ogra: correct
<ogra> slashdevnull, what if you remove the file completely ? 
<slashdevnull> ogra: I believe that does not work, either. verifying...
<slashdevnull> stupid question (double-checking): lts.conf goes in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc, right?
<ogra> yep
<slashdevnull> verified: not working when lts.conf is removed.
<slashdevnull> I think I am going to bench the server, put a monitor on it, and make sure that X is working on it locally.
<ogra> that doesnt matter
<slashdevnull> then clear /opt/ltsp/i386 and start over. That won't help?
<slashdevnull> nm, then. :)
<DanielC> "stable" my ass.
<ogra> btw did you manage to mount from the workstation ?
<slashdevnull> y
<ogra> DanielC, ?
<slashdevnull> What is the next thing that I should see on the ubuntu logo splash screen after mounting? That seems to be where it breaks.
<DanielC> ogra: Breezy didn't go black when installing.
<DanielC> This is a major bug. It's happened twice in a row (on different hardware).
<slashdevnull> They are slightly different beasts. I'm sure it went black on some hardware. 
<ogra> DanielC, i havent heard of that problem at any time during the testing phase we had
<DanielC> ogra: cbx33 has seen it too.
<slashdevnull> ogra, btw, in testing yesterday, i tried getting the thin clients to boot from the older kernel (which I no longer have, from wiping /opt/ltsp/i386). I got further in the process with that.
<ogra> DanielC, *nobody* has seen it at a time where we would have been able to fix it
<highvoltage> slashdevnull: the kernel doesn't live in /opt/ltsp/i386, it lives in /var/lib/tftpboot
<slashdevnull> I know. That's where I changed the symlinks.
<slashdevnull> But, that only got me so far, as could be expected. ;)
<ogra> we tested instally nearly two months long on many different setups ...
<ogra> *installing
<DanielC> ogra: cbx33 has a link to the bug report, I don't have the link handy.
<ogra> slashdevnull, "That's where I changed the symlinks." ???
<ogra> what did you change ? 
<highvoltage> that does sound a bit strange.
<ogra> (you shouldnt touch /var/lib/tftpboot, ltsp-build-client does that)
<slashdevnull> In my troubleshooting, I temporarily repointed initrd.img and vmlinuz to other kernels. They have been moved back since then to where they were before the change
<ogra> DanielC, well, when was it filed ? 
<DanielC> ogra: I'm looking for the link...
<slashdevnull> And, actually, yeah. Since they live outside of /opt, they didn't get wiped as I previously said. I need more coffeee.
<ogra> slashdevnull, to be sure, please do: sudo rm -rf /var/lib/tftpboot && sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> err
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> sudo rm -rf /var/lib/tftpboot/* && sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> (dont use the first one)
<DanielC> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xresprobe/+bug/43722
<jsgotangco> hmm what happened to enigmail?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: just heard back from the travel agency. it sounds like my application went through fine, which means that i should get my visa tomorrow (shew)
<DanielC> ogra: Looks like May, but I'm not sure.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well usually when they ask for ticket and travel insurance i would assume its okay already
<slashdevnull> ogra: too late. recreating directories, etc.
<slashdevnull> done. rebooting thin client..
<DanielC> brb
<slashdevnull> i am getting file not found errors from pxe now.
<ogra> grmbl perople not using the attachment function to add logfiles in launchpad should be sh**
<slashdevnull> I'm happy to have a differnet error. Progress. :)
<ogra> slashdevnull, nah, thats a regression :)
<slashdevnull> heh
<ogra> did you run ltsp-update-kernels as i described above ? 
<slashdevnull> I believe so. I have new files in /var/lib/tftpboot
<slashdevnull> I believe so. I have new files in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp, rather
<DanielC> back
<ogra> with the appropriate links (vmlinuz and initrd.img pointing to the right files) ?
<slashdevnull> it appears so
<ogra> and also a pxeboot dir below ? 
<ogra> (pxelinux.cfg)
<slashdevnull> http://pastebin.com/708530
<ogra> looks ok
<slashdevnull> yes. with "default" in it
<ogra> yep
<ogra> try: sudo apt-get install tftp-hpa && tftp localhost
<slashdevnull> ok
<jsgotangco> good night
<slashdevnull> I have a tftp prompt
<slashdevnull> i should learn tftp. :P
<ogra> slashdevnull, make sure to run that in your homedir or somewhere, but *not* in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
<ogra> now just type: get ltsp/vmlinuz
<ogra> it should recieve the kernel
<slashdevnull> Error code 1: File not found
<ogra> you can try the same with ltsp/pxelinux.0
<ogra> hmm ? 
<slashdevnull> same error
<ogra> are you sure you run ubuntu ltsp ?
<ogra> grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
<ogra> dpkg -l|grep tftp
<slashdevnull> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<slashdevnull> dpkg -l|grep tftp
<slashdevnull> ii  tftp-hpa                                   0.40-4.1ubuntu1                       HPA's tftp client
<slashdevnull> ii  tftpd-hpa                                  0.40-4.1ubuntu1                       HPA's tftp server
<ogra> hmm, looks ok
<ogra> try restarting inetd .... sudo killall -HUP inetd
<ogra> and the try again 
<slashdevnull> ok
<slashdevnull> same error
<ogra> did you make a new connection ? 
<ogra> you need to quit and reconnect the tftp client
<slashdevnull> yes
<slashdevnull> i did
<ogra> and your inetd is running ? 
<slashdevnull> it was not, for some reason. I t is now, though. one moment...
<slashdevnull>  ps aux | grep -i inet
<slashdevnull> root     26042  0.0  0.0   1600   504 ?        Ss   10:39   0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
<ogra> okiu
<slashdevnull> got it
<slashdevnull> ogra, q: Should inetd be able to be stopped/started by non-root?
<ogra> nope
<slashdevnull> mine does. :P
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ /etc/init.d/inetd restart
<ogra>  * Restarting internet superserver... start-stop-daemon: warning: failed to kill 4311: Operation not permitted
<ogra>                                                                          [ ok ] 
<ogra> ...
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/inetd restart
<ogra>  * Restarting internet superserver...                                    [ ok ] 
<slashdevnull> $ /etc/init.d/inetd start
<slashdevnull>  * Starting internet superserver...                                                      [ ok ] 
<slashdevnull> isg@zion2:~/tmp$ ps aux | grep -i inet
<slashdevnull> root     26042  0.0  0.0   1600   508 ?        Ss   10:38   0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
<slashdevnull> isg      26085  0.0  0.0   1600   552 ?        Ss   10:41   0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
<slashdevnull> isg      26089  0.0  0.0   2880   800 pts/0    R+   10:41   0:00 grep -i inet
<slashdevnull> running both as root and non-root now
<ogra> something is pretty broken with your system then 
<ogra> how did you start the one running as isg ?
<ogra> start-stop-daemon isnt capable to run as user
<ogra> (at least it shouldnt)
<slashdevnull> I used /etc/init.d/inetd
<slashdevnull> script
<ogra> which calls start-stop-daemon
<pygi> hey hey people
<ogra> urgh
<slashdevnull> This system is used by students who could have gained root. Maybe it's time for a full wipe and re-install.
<ogra> you called it with start instead of restart, right ? 
<slashdevnull> yes
<slashdevnull> stop and start
<ogra> make sure all are killed and start one as root
<ogra> then check if it works
<slashdevnull> all are stopped. Did that as root.
<slashdevnull> ps aux  verified.
<ogra> even if you have an inetd running as user, it wont do anything as long as tcpd is caring for the childs
<slashdevnull> ok
<slashdevnull> started one instance as root via /etc/init.d
<slashdevnull> verified. one instance running
<slashdevnull> as root
<ogra> good
<slashdevnull> The thin client boots as far as it did initially. Stalls/backscreens after "mounting root filesystem"
<slashdevnull> er, blackscreens
<ogra> now check if you get the kernel via tftp
<slashdevnull> As non-root: new tftp session, then get ltsp/vmlinuz. Works.
<ogra> ok, thats good
<ogra> we are at least sure it gets the right kernel now
<pygi> bluekuja, poke? :)
<slashdevnull> pxe works. I get a kernel. I get an ubuntu splash screen, I supposedly mount the root filesystem, then go black
<ogra> there is one "supposedly" to much in that senence
<ogra> *sentence
<ogra> lets make it *sure*
<slashdevnull> The keyboard is reaponsive to numlock/capslock and alt-fkeys. Other than that, nothing seems to be happening
<slashdevnull> ogra: heh. :)
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> even better, lets drop usplash for now ...
<slashdevnull> groovy
<slashdevnull> how/where do I do that?
<ogra> just drop "splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default
<bluekuja> pygi: :)
<pygi> bluekuja, progress? :)
<bluekuja> pygi: I'm working on the server, login works now
<ogra> it has only one line ... just remove the word "splash"
<bluekuja> svn too
<ogra> (but keep the "quiet", else it scrolls very fast)
<pygi> bluekuja, nice, does domain also work?
<slashdevnull> splash removed. rebooting thin client
<ogra> now lets see where it hangs :)
<bluekuja> I didn't tried it
<bluekuja> *try
<bluekuja> before
<bluekuja> maybe we can do it now
<pygi> bluekuja, oki :)
<bluekuja> pm then
<slashdevnull> ogra: I am halting at the same place. Last line: rootserver: 192.168.4.2 rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386
<ogra> nothing below ?
<slashdevnull> nope
<ogra> can you restart portmap and nfs-kernel-server and try booting again 
<ogra> ?
<slashdevnull> It appears to have grabbed and uncomperssed the kernel, grabbed network info (ip addr, domain, etc.) then that line
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> (and use "restart")
<slashdevnull> done. rebooting client...
<slashdevnull> same results
<ogra> ok, try mounting from the workstation again ... this is getting weird, but i'm sure its not an X issue or anything with your graphics card noe
<ogra> *now
<slashdevnull> ok
<slashdevnull> mounted
<ogra> really ? 
<slashdevnull> I see the root filesystem in /mnt on the workstation now
<ogra> hrm
<slashdevnull> bin, boot, etc.
<ogra> try booting the client again, thats strange
<slashdevnull> thin client rebooted. stuck at the same place
<ogra> give it some time ...
<ogra> it should drop you to busybox or something at least after a timeout ...
<slashdevnull> ok
<slashdevnull> i have 12 thin clients to work with, so I can let one sit, if there's anything to try on other ones
<ogra> usually it prints out something like /sbin/init not found
<ogra> erm, the other ones work fine ? 
<slashdevnull> in the usplash screen, in "mounting root filesystem", it says "ok" on the right hand sid, before the screen blacks.
<ogra> did you try a different one ? 
<slashdevnull> no, none of the thins work
<slashdevnull> same problem all around (thank the gods)
<ogra> hrm :/
<ogra> how much memory do these clients have ? 
<slashdevnull> lots. 1gb
<slashdevnull> They are booted into thin or fat mode, depending on what we need them for at the time
<ogra> ok
<ogra> have you got a liveCD handy by chance ? 
<slashdevnull> yes, I do
<ogra> to boot one client from for testing ...
<ogra> so lets check what that does
<ogra> i have no idea at all whats causing this ... you should at least get a nfs timeout ast some point, or some other error message
<slashdevnull> I also have the client PCs installed locally with Ubuntu 6.06.
<slashdevnull> I'll go boot one off the livecd
<slashdevnull> First option, I assume: "Start or install ubuntu"?
<ogra> yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have locale issues, and 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' just regenerates them. does anyone know what i have to dpkg to get the option to select locales to generate? 
<slashdevnull> livecd could not start x
<ogra> aha
<slashdevnull> A workinjg 6.06 workstation (non-thin) has Driver "fglrx" at 1280x1024 in xorg.conf
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<slashdevnull> er, working
<ogra> ok, seems the ati kernel driver is broken for you... if fglrx works it will be a bit tricky to set up on the client ...
<slashdevnull> yay. ;P
<slashdevnull> :)
<slashdevnull> I'm up for the challenge
<slashdevnull> Do I need to, like, chroot into the thin client environment and apt-get install fglrx drivers or something?
<slashdevnull> ogra, for future reference (because I may need to set up Ubuntu ltsp for a customer in the near future) am I better off with nVidia vs. ATI if the thins have newer video cards in them?
* Kamping_Kaiser wondesr if its a debconf priority thing
<slashdevnull> ogra: I was able to get the livecd system into X with the radeon driver. Doesn't seem to work for me with the thin client, however.
<lucasvo> anybody know how to make a screenshot on an ibook?
<highvoltage> do you have gimp installed?
<highvoltage> you could click on File -> Aquire -> Screenshot
<lucasvo> highvoltage: ok, I'll try that
<ogra> slashdevnull, there is no point in usin any GL card at all over ltsp, since you dont have access to the clients /dev/dri from the X session on the server
<ogra> so GL wont waork anyways
<ogra> yeah, chroot into the client root and first of all install linux-386
<ogra> that will give you the linux-restricted-modules package
<slashdevnull> doing it...
<slashdevnull> installed
<ogra> ok, first try if the client boots with that now ...
<slashdevnull> ogra: I am about to get called away into  a meeting. 
<ogra> (its unlikely but testing it is cheap)
<slashdevnull> Will do. Checking...
<ogra> ok, just ping again later and we'll add fglrx to the modules in initramfs of the client then
<ogra> (in case this test doesnt work)
<slashdevnull> test failed. same results
<slashdevnull> or at least, yields same results. ;)
<pygi> ogra, mandriva is including bonfire ;P
<pygi> joy :)
<ogra> ubuntu too ... in universe afetr you packaged it and becamme a MOTU :P
<pygi> ogra, that will take ages :P
<pygi> ogra, but I meant in ship :P
<slashdevnull> heh
<pygi> (for mandriva)
<pygi> ogra, packaging is not a problem, that should happen soon :)
<ogra> how big is ship of mmandriva, and do i get commercial support for it  there ? 
<pygi> not sure, and I don't really care as I don't use it :P
<ogra> i'm pretty sure they ship several CDs and have the luxury of space 
<ogra> and i really doubt they give commercial support for everything they ship
<pygi> no worries, I won't switch to mandriva :P
<ogra> nah, i'm just giving the rationale why we wouldnt include it in ship :)
<slashdevnull> ogra: What's next for fglrx/ltsp? apt-get install the fglrx stuffs?
<ogra> yeps
<slashdevnull> xorg-driver-fglrx. ok.
<ogra> and then fiddling wirh the initramfs settings and regenerating the initramfs ...
<pygi> ogra, no worries, no need to include it even in main ;)
<pygi> universe if fine ;)
<slashdevnull> driver installed
<ogra> after that, run ltsp-update-kernels to copy it over to the tftproot
<slashdevnull> outside of chroot, right?
<ogra> yes, but first the initramfs (in the chroot)
<ogra> add fglrx to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/mkinitramfs/modules
<ogra> then run update-initramfs -u in the chroot
<ogra> then the above on the server and try to boot
<ogra> hmm, you might need a custom xorg.conf or an XSERVER entry in lts.conf i'm pretty sure the autodetection will never use fglrx by default
<slashdevnull> ok
<slashdevnull> update-initramfs done in chroot. now doing outside of chroot...
<ogra> ltsp-update-kernels
<slashdevnull> gotcha
<highvoltage> ogra: if you install compiz/xglserver in the chroot...
<slashdevnull> done
<highvoltage> ogra: would the 3D parts be processes locally on the client?
<ogra> highvoltage, leave me alone with xgl pleaser
<slashdevnull> no compiz
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i should've expected something like that... sorry :)
<ogra> you need device access you dont have 
<highvoltage> ok, that answers my question. thanks.
<ogra> same as for xorg :)
<slashdevnull> ogra: I need to go to that meeting now. Damn.
<ogra> xgl is the worst crap evah ... its a proof of concept thing that people think they can use for real
<ogra> (not that xgl is bad, but the marketing made around it)
<slashdevnull> I think my only next step along these lines is pointing at an xorg.conf that references the fglrx driver
<slashdevnull> hope to be back in a nhour or so. Thanks for all of the help.
<ogra> slashdevnull, you could first try with an XSERVER stanza in lts.conf
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<highvoltage> ogra: i realise that (about xgl). i was just asking hypothetically, to improve my understanding of whether it would work or not.
<ogra> it wouldnt since the problem persists
<sbartleylinux> ogra_: ping
<sthelen> register woodcut3
<sthelen> I'm having some issues with the administration part of Edubuntu.  Could anyone help?
<sthelen> the version I'm using is 6.06 with the installer.
<cbx33> ping ogra ogra__ 
<cbx33> can we have a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew in the topic or something?
<cbx33> new minutes are out
<crimsun_> cbx33: (you can adjust the topic; it's not locked)
<cbx33> oh?
<crimsun_> (the channel's not +t)
<ogra__> cbx33, we have the meeting agenda there which links to the meeting records
<ogra__> i think that should suffice
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry ogra__ 
<cbx33> do the minutes look ok?
<cbx33> i know you like to check em through
<spacey> any ekiga users here? (or someone who does anything with line-in)
<sbartleylinux> ogra__: When can we talk about printing?
<spacey> i can hear myself on the speakers when i talk in the microphone, but ekiga doesn't pick up the sound (neither does gnome sound recorder)
<spacey> really frustrating
<spacey> and now it stopped working all together
<spacey> oh wait it still works like that
* spacey frustrated
<slashdevnull> ogra__: I'm back. Still no joy.
<slashdevnull> I'm wondering if I can use the radeon driver, since that seems to work on the livecd. Or, if it's even a video problem at all. Maybe things are borking pre-X driver
<cbx33> ogra__, is it tonight for the scp meeting?
<slashdevnull> hello, ogra_
<slashdevnull> I have a new question: How do I downgrade back to 5.10? ;)
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> cbx33: hey hey
* rodarvus recovering from a machine crash
<cbx33> oh dear
<LaserJock> rodarvus: doh
* cbx33 is coding more on gisomount
<lucasvo> not much activity today, eh?
<rodarvus> lucasvo: actually, we had lots of activity just a few hours ago
<EmxBA> hi again :)
<EmxBA> can anyone see this
<EmxBA> http://85.92.240.33/
<lucasvo> EmxBA: what's this?
<lucasvo> a wardriving event?
<EmxBA> just few screenhsots of my wireless card and kismet in action :)
<EmxBA> I am running apache on my box
<EmxBA> I'm connected to net over dialup
<EmxBA> apache works fine for me :)
<EmxBA> http://85.92.240.33/ is my IP :)
<EmxBA> ping me if you want , or use nmap :)
<EmxBA> hi pygi
<cbx33> pygi, are we having the scp meeting in 10 mins?
<EmxBA> scp? can you explain it to me :)
<pygi> cbx33, that is today? :P
<highvoltage> ogra__: i'm on the -users admin, but i don't have the list passwd
<lucasvo> student-control-panel
<cbx33> ?!?!?
<EmxBA> ok
<lucasvo> EmxBA: something like Apple Remote Desktop for Linux
<EmxBA> heh
<lucasvo> Let's say for thinclients
<lucasvo> cbx33: am I wrong?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> i was just confused by pygi's comment
<lucasvo> ah
<pygi> cbx33, was joking, no worries :)
<lucasvo> I'll try to attend as well
<lucasvo> cbx33: where is it?
<cbx33> here i think
<EmxBA> so tomorrow is edubuntu cookbook meeting
<lucasvo> ok
<EmxBA> pygi,   I woul really like to join edubuntu cookbook team, i've found it really good for me
<EmxBA> so i would be very active
<EmxBA> you don't have to let me in, I just want to contribute
<pygi> cbx33, right, if ogra is here, we can have meeting
<EmxBA> maybe somewhere else, not on LP, pygi
<pygi> altought ogra wrote a spec with needed features, so no need to talk much :P
<cbx33> true
<bluekuja> hey pygi
<bluekuja> small question: who made the package?
<EmxBA> hi bluekuja, i mean andrea
<pygi> blue-frog, the script :P
<bluekuja> hi EmxBA  :)
<EmxBA> hi :)
<pygi> bluekuja, *
<pygi> ergh, I hate this tab thingy :P
<bluekuja> Requested 'gstreamer-0.10 >= 0.10.6' but version of GStreamer is 0.10.4
<bluekuja> version goes to 0.10 to 0.10.6
<bluekuja> why 10.4 not work?
<pygi> because it won't :P 
<pygi> It's buggy :P
<bluekuja> oh great
<pygi> .6 is also buggy, but less buggy :P
<bluekuja> there seems to be a problem with .6 too
<bluekuja> i mean in packaging
<pygi> bleh, like what? :P
<bluekuja> available version is .4
<bluekuja> both extras-updates-core
<bluekuja> so it's only available browsing google
<pygi> bah :-/
* EmxBA found an open wireless network in hotel in circle of 100 meters 
<bluekuja> pygi: need to fix build requires
<pygi> bluekuja, it requires .6 :P 
<pygi> If it doesn't have it, rather don't make package :P
<bluekuja> np for it, I'll try to make -6 working
<lucasvo> cbx33: are we redy to start?
<bluekuja> it's urgent?
<bluekuja> or you can wait
<pygi> bluekuja, I can wait I think :P
<cbx33> well I'm ready, but we really need ogra  - pygi did he say he could attend?
<pygi> cbx33, yes :P
<bluekuja> pygi: 1 motnh?
<bluekuja> *month
<bluekuja> I don't have a rpm based system on my laptop
<pygi> bluekuja, ah, well :P
<Amaranth> ogra: ping?
<Amaranth> we missed our meeting :)
<Amaranth> and i missed the edubuntu meeting, oops
<EmxBA> hi Amaranth
<bluekuja> pygi: I'll try to work on it with laptop
<bluekuja> (rpm building on ubuntu, great)
<pygi> bluekuja, no need, don't worry
<pygi> I'll find someone else
<bluekuja> pygi: NO
<EmxBA> anyone got hacked into open wireless before?
<pygi> nah, just you go wherever you have to go :P
<bluekuja> i want to do it
<pygi> and enjoy, don't work
<cbx33> EmxBA, I've hack WEP wireless before
<EmxBA> using what?
<EmxBA> wepcracker?
<pygi> cbx33, don't teach people how to crack :P
<bluekuja> pygi: sea,girls, drink 
<cbx33> I wouldn't dream of it
<cbx33> I merely said I'd done it :p
<EmxBA> pygi, not cracking, hacking into OPEN wireless 
<pygi> hacking Open wireless? wth? 
<cbx33> do you own the wireless
<pygi> if it's open, why crack it?
<cbx33> if not it's still against the law
<EmxBA> no, i don't own the wireless
<cbx33> then don;t use it
<pygi> cbx33, here you could do whatever you want like that
<pygi> there is no law against hacking really
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> cool
<EmxBA> i just asked did any of you connected using someone's other wireless connection
<EmxBA> which was open, not secured by wep
<pygi> there is *something*, but that is not useful to anyone :P
<bluekuja> pygi: will you be in paris?
<pygi> bluekuja, no :-/
<bluekuja> pygi: unfortunately i wont be there too :(
<bluekuja> pygi: debconf on edinburg?
<bluekuja> next year
<EmxBA> no
<pygi> bluekuja, neither that :-/
<EmxBA> debconf in bosnia maybe :)
<EmxBA> see official site ;)
<bluekuja> EmxBA: do you know what debconf is?
<bluekuja> nice
<bluekuja> i want italy hehe
<EmxBA> bluekuja: debian conference
<bluekuja> but quite sure edinburg
<EmxBA> i want bosnia
<EmxBA> :)
<bluekuja> too far away
<bluekuja> from my city
<EmxBA> i'll pay bus for you :)
<bluekuja> bus?
<bluekuja> 1 month trip?
<EmxBA> no
<EmxBA> 2 months trip plus hotel with 5 stars ;)
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> nice
<EmxBA> :)
<ark__> is this the Student Control Panel meeting?
<bluekuja> ark__: i don't know
<bluekuja> cbx33: ping
<pygi> cbx33, what are we going to do without ogra ? :-/
<pygi> ark__, it's supposed to be :P
<cbx33> nothing
<EmxBA> what are we going to do without JaneW
<EmxBA> have you seen her mail?
<pygi> EmxBA, we know that ages ago :P
<ark__> I thought it was supposed to be at #student-panel
<EmxBA> pygi: oh, ok :(
<pygi> ark__, ah, well
<pygi> my fault probably :P
<pygi> bluekuja, debconf is in 1 month?
<ark__> so ogra is not here?
<EmxBA> pygi, will you be on Edubuntu Cookbook meeting tomorrow
<EmxBA> she is her
<bluekuja> I know that it's once a year
<pygi> ark__, what do you need? Perhaps I could help you? :)
<EmxBA> but it looks like she's away form computer
<pygi> bleh, outdated computer :P
<pygi> EmxBA, what are you talking about? :P
<ark__> I read on the edubuntu dev list that there was going to be a discussion about S-C-P
<pygi> ark__, you are right :)
<pygi> What you wanna discuss? :)
<EmxBA> tomorrow's Edubuntu Cookbook meeting
<EmxBA> lots of things :-P
<ark__> I am the developer of Fl_TeacherTool
* pygi looks up for that :)
<ark__> I wanted to share my experience of that to help SCP in edubuntu
<EmxBA> can anyone help me
<pygi> ark__, nice, thanks ;)
<EmxBA> how can i see list of newly installed apps
<EmxBA> maybe in synaptic
<ark__> I thought about doing a port but things are a bit different in muekow and don't have much time now anyway
<EmxBA> or in apt
<pygi> Perhaps you could also help in implementation if you know python? 
<pygi> ark__, eh, sadly yes :-/
<ark__> this is my first time using irc so be kind
<pygi> ark__, no worries :)
<EmxBA> pygi: can you help me find a list of newly installed apps
<pygi> EmxBA, later :P
<EmxBA> ok
<pygi> don't you see we are discussing :P
<EmxBA> anyone else?
<ark__> I know muekow uses ssh to the clients that's why there is more sys req on the clients
<pygi> ark__, right
<ark__> it requires me to modify some system calls in my code
<ark__> Eric Harrison has accepted Fl_TT into K12LTSP
<ark__> in fact he helped with the integration
<ark__> We now have monitor/control and broadcasting
<pygi> yup, saw that
<pygi> is it good "safe"/security wise?
<pygi> (the vnc implementation)
<ark__> As safe as LTSP
<ark__> Nothing is encrypted from the server to the clients
<ark__> i
<ark__> it's just X
<pygi> ark__, right
<ark__> sorry I was on the phone
<lucasvo> ark__: can you also shut down the clients from your control panel?
<ark__> lucasvo: actually this is a major thread in the k12ltsp list now
<lucasvo> ark__: how to implement it?
* lucasvo isn't reading the list
<ark__> lucasvo: answer is no but because Eric says it's a huge security risk
<lucasvo> well. depends on the implementation
<slashdevnull> can i tap someone here for some ltsp help? I've been working on this all day, and most of the day yesterday.
<lucasvo> slashdevnull: what's wrong?
<slashdevnull> ogra was helping earlier, but is probably not around
<ark__> I have to take a break for a moment 
<slashdevnull> lucasvo, I think I have it troubleshot down to a nfs problem
<pygi> ark__, ok, enjoy :)
<slashdevnull> I am running 6.06 (upgraded from 5.10, with the thin client portion completely re-re-re-re-installed).
<slashdevnull> When I boot a thin client, it gets t oa certain point, and stops.
<lucasvo> which point?
<slashdevnull> The final error message that I get now is "nfs: server 192.168.4.2 not responding, still trying"
<slashdevnull> That's after modifying the boot to be more verbose, and not use usplash
<cbx33> right I'm off guys sorry
<slashdevnull> I can mount the nfs share from other systems on the same network segment
<cbx33> we'll have to have the meeting at another time
* EmxBA almost set up wireless
* EmxBA is soon transferring from dialup to open wireless [hacked]  :)
<lucasvo> slashdevnull: sorry, I don't know what I would do in that case
<slashdevnull> alright, thanks anyhow
* EmxBA is leaving
<EmxBA> see ya
<bluekuja> cbx33: hello pete
<cbx33> hi
<bluekuja> did the mail arrived you about this bug? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/49768
<bluekuja> i received it right now, I was opening browser to answer
<bluekuja> I don't understand why he pointed the  bug to edubuntu-meta
<bluekuja> pygi: hey mario
<pygi> morning andrea
<pygi> :)
<bluekuja> pygi: i was answering to a "bug"
<bluekuja> in lp
<bluekuja> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/49768
<bluekuja> nice to see people that try to open .exe files on a linux system
<pygi> lol :)
<pygi> bluekuja, what's wrong with exe files? :)
<bluekuja> :P
<pygi> Diva consists of bunch of .exe (one actually :P) and lots of dll's :P
<bluekuja> aww
<bluekuja> so you're exe pro
<pygi> that's Mono/C# tho, but not regular exe :P
<bluekuja> ok, that's better
<pygi> bluekuja, saw comment on gnomefiles? :)
<bluekuja> pygi: nope, can you post me the link again?
<bluekuja> i need to vote too
<pygi> http://www.gnomefiles.org/comment.php?soft_id=1158#5498
<pygi> and give some good comment :P
<bluekuja> lol, I need to try it, but i trust you
<pygi> bleh, nothing until edgy :P
<bluekuja> I trust your coding skills
<pygi> you saw nothing I coded :P
<bluekuja> I know
<pygi> how can you trust my coding skills then? :P
<bluekuja> I just trsut
<bluekuja> *trust
<bluekuja> :)
<ark__> This is not on topic but I read Jane W. is leaving canonical. Is Oliver G. also leaving? 
<pygi> ark__, ofcourse he is not
<ark__> Good. I thought it was some kind of restructuring by Canonical
<ark__> Does anyone know when the next discussion of S-C-P is scheduled?
<pygi> ark__, you'll just have to talk to me about it and ogra and cbx33
<pygi> no date set really :)
<pygi> ark__, you can poke me always at mail
<pygi> if you want?
<ark__> okay. I sent an email a few weeks ago to Jonathon, you and Oliver and I got no replies so I thought I would show up here
<pygi> ark__, to me? you sure in that? :P
<pygi> mario dot danic at gmail dot com? :)
<ark__> pretty sure. let me check
<ark__> yes on June 2
<pygi> hm, whats ur mail?
<ark__> robark at gmail
<pygi> k, lemme check pls
<pygi> sec
<pygi> ark__, indeed you have, gmail server is acting weird :-/
<pygi> sorry, lemme read the mail
<ark__> no prob
<pygi> ah, right
<pygi> we do kinda have already a base code for control panel
<pygi> have you seen it?
<ark__> yes breifly. It's in python with the gui in gtk
<pygi> indeed
<pygi> we just lack most of the features :P
<ark__> But I noticed that you guys are trying to add most of the features I already have implemented
<pygi> bluekuja, where's the comment :P
<pygi> ark__, indeed :)
<bluekuja> pygi: just a moment and it will be there :)
<ark__> Mine is coded in C++ (it's basically 2 classes) with the gui in fltk 
<ark__> have you heard of fltk?
<Amaranth> a fltk gui can't be used
<ark__> What's the reason for not allowing fltk
<Amaranth> it, uh, looks out of place
<pygi> ark__, ofcourse  I have heard of it :P
<Amaranth> S-C-P is a major thing, it has to blend with the desktop
* pygi nods
<ark__> I have a screenshot on my page. It's not a gtk app that's obvious. It looks more like MacOSX style
<LaserJock> ark__: what's the URL?
<pygi> ark__, it looks more like to blend with xfce :P
<ark__> http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/
<pygi> yes, saw it already :P
<ark__> The new version 0.32 actually has ip # instead of hostnames
<ark__> In any case, even if fltk is not allowed ogra can read my code to help implement SCP because some of the system calls should be the same
* pygi can also read code :P
<ark__> the callbacks should not be all that different. I am however using a vector of student structs as my data object. Don't know if python has template like generics
<ark__> Another thing to look at is vncreflector. I don't know any other way to do broadcasting
<ark__> And as for controlling/shadowing/monitoring. Eric built a vnc.so module for ltsp 4.2 that basically lets all the clients run a vncserver like X extension.
<ark__> He built it inside the LTSP build environement 
<pygi> right
* pygi notes all this stuff
<ark__> Well in any  case I just feel if ogra wants any input from me I don't mind sharing my experience and feedback from the k12ltsp list
<pygi> ark__, thanks ;)
<ark__> BTW I use two version of vnc. tight is for the reflector and real is for the control monitor feature
<pygi> ark__, eh, that is not so good :P
<ark__> what?
<pygi> well, two vnc stuff :)
<ark__> there is only one vnc server running. realvnc. but vncreflector is a vnc proxy and it integrates well with tightvnc viewer. It works great.
<pygi> right, I get it :P
<ark__> this is the type of stuff I could chat with the dev of SCP. I was hoping ogra would be here
#edubuntu 2006-06-15
<pygi> you know I am going to do the implementation of SCP, right? :)
<pygi> but yes, ogra wrote the initial implementation which exists now
<ark__> No. I did not know that. I thought ogra was the man
<pygi> ogra wrote initial implementation which currently exists
<ark__> Well I'm talking to the right guy after all. That's great.
<ark__> Nice to meet you Mario
<pygi> Same :)
<pygi> bluekuja, you alive? :)
<bluekuja> yep ubuntu-it-meeting
<bluekuja> i was trying to add a packaging section
<bluekuja> into the forum
<bluekuja> e
<pygi> ah, meeting :P
<pygi> oki then :)
<pygi> ark__, just a sec, lemme find something :)
<ark__> If you have any detailed questions I prefer talking on the phone. I have free calling in North America so I don't mind calling. 
<pygi> ark__,  and I am in Europe :P
<ark__> darn
<pygi> ark__, We have to find a good way to implement the side of the client in a non intrusive way
<pygi> Currently this means some very intrusive changes to x11vnc, which must conform to debian policy,
<pygi> and the package must work as it did before the change if not used in ltsp.
<ark__> What do you mean "side of the client"
<pygi> well, to control and broadcast stuff
<Amaranth> client-side
<pygi> right :P
<Amaranth> the student's computer needs a modified x11vnc for the teacher's computer to control it how we want
<Amaranth> in the CAD lab at my highschool the teacher could show up what was on his screen
<Amaranth> he'd lock us out and show us how to do things on his computer
<ark__> I'm not sure if I understand this completely. Eric Harrison built the X vnc module so you can vnc into the client. Other than that my fl_TT program controls everything. The users do nothing.
<pygi> ark__, right, well we need to modify that module
<ark__> Why do you need to modify it?
<pygi> because this way it's intrusive :P
<ark__> the only person who can vnc into the client is someone who has the vnc password set in the root of the client env
<ark__> read my installation instructions on my page
<ark__> One student cannot vnc into another
<ark__> because they don't know the password
<ark__> I am a high school teacher btw
<pygi> yup, saw that :)
<ark__> I gotta get going. If you want to further this discussion please email me. Thanks.
<pygi> oki, enjoy 
<ark__> bye
<pygi> bluekuja, I still dont have my comment :p
<bluekuja> pygi: meeting finished now
<bluekuja> doing it
<bluekuja> I need to concentrate to write down a great comment
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> bluekuja, right:P
<bluekuja> pygi: done
<bluekuja> sorry for "the this"
<pygi> don't worry ;)
<bluekuja> I'm sleepy and i forgot to review it before commit
<bluekuja> :)
<pygi> lool 
<pygi> ok, I am now sorry for asking for comment :P
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> I've voted 10
<pygi> still sorry for asking for comment :P
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> too late
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> anyway it's not a problem mario
<bluekuja> you know it
* bluekuja goes to drink/eat something
<pygi> enjoy
<pygi> I shall run to sleep probably
<bluekuja> aww
<bluekuja> nah wait me
<pygi> bleh, after such a comment? :P
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> bye bye :)
<bluekuja> pygi: anyway it was a great comment
<bluekuja> :P
<bddebian> Heya
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi
<scud> man, i love edubuntu
<scud> i have my 3 year old playing on it
<jsgotangco> yay
* HedgeMage peeks in
<cbx33> Boo
<cbx33> ping Laser_away 
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> LaserJock, 
<LaserJock> cbx33: hi
<cbx33> howz the new gui look?
<LaserJock> good, I'll have to think about it a bit more
<LaserJock> I've been trying to get a headset working this evening
<LaserJock> apparently we are using VoIP at Paris
<cbx33> woh
<cbx33> cool
<LaserJock> so everybody can join in, and hear the BOFs
<cbx33> how do i get the C header files that match my runningkernel? 
<LaserJock> kernel-headers?
<cbx33> hmm tha'ts what I thought
<cbx33> E: Couldn't find package kernel-headers-2.6.15-23-386
<crimsun_> no
<crimsun_> linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<cbx33> crimsun_, that's what I did
<crimsun_> no, you did kernel-headers
<cbx33> oh sorry
<LaserJock> bah, yeah
<LaserJock> crimsun_ saves my butt again
<LaserJock> good night cbx33 
<cbx33> nn LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I'm going to be now
<cbx33> expect some changes when you awake
<LaserJock> great, looking forward to them
<cbx33> you're going to be now?
<crimsun_> 'nighto, then.
<cbx33> I thought you existed already?
<LaserJock> wha?
<cbx33> never mind :p
<cbx33> crimsun_, is there a known bug with the gnome cups icon?
<cbx33> mine is taking 99.5% of the CPU
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<jsgotangco> haha i can only laugh now
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: wooo
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you got your visa?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well yeah but here's a funnier story
<jsgotangco> im supposed to have someone pick up my passport tomorrow
<jsgotangco> but the guy at the embassy told me that their network is still not working
<jsgotangco> and can't issue electronic visas
<jsgotangco> *so*
<jsgotangco> they're going to issue handwritten ones
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> at least you
<highvoltage> at least you're getting a visa :)
<highvoltage> which is good.
<highvoltage> i hope to get a call to say that i can pick up my visa in about an hour or so
<jsgotangco> good luck, i can just imagine the others with me yesterday are also a bit surprised at the handwritten stuff
<andi5> hi... i hope it is ok to ask this question here: does ubuntu feature gnumexp or not? i have found some entries in launchpad, but do not know what they are about... thanks in advance!
<DanielC> Hello. I just replaced an ethernet card, so the old eth0 and eth1 config is wrong. How do I find out which card is now eth1 and which is eth0 ?
<EmxBA> hi!
<cbx33> DanielC: do you know mac addresses?
<cbx33> you could always plug them both in, ping their ip addresses
<cbx33> unplug one
<cbx33> then do an ifconfig
<cbx33> and see which is responding?
<DanielC> cbx33: Not really. I only half know what a mac address is.
<DanielC> cbx33: Well, the problem is that I can't get networking up on this computer.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> is dhcp running on the network?
<andi5> DanielC: ubuntu has a hardware manager, there you can find the corresponding network device, do not know about edubuntu
<cbx33> andi5: yes edubuntu has that too
<DanielC> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> ok, what happens when you do
<DanielC> andi5: I took a look at it, but couldn't figure out which one was eth1 and which was eth0.
<cbx33> are they both plugged into the network
<andi5> but you see them? look at the second tab
<DanielC> andi5: I saw one of them. When I didn't figure out if it was eth0 or 1 I didn't try to find the other.
<DanielC> Ok, let's try on my desktop.
<DanielC> Hardware manager. Under Devices I found my network card.
<DanielC> select it, and click on the Advanced tab.
<DanielC> Now?
<andi5> now, for me there is the device and as a child of it "networking interface"
<andi5> now = no
<DanielC> ok:   net.interface     strlist   eth0
<DanielC> So I guess that's my answer.
<andi5> yep
<DanielC> I'll try now on the server. Thanks!
* DanielC goes to the server
<andi5> cbx33: any idea on my question above?
<DanielC> Hmm... I have eth2 and eth1 but no eth0. Is that bad?
<EmxBA> does anyone know how can i setup my orinoco wifi PCMCIA card
<cbx33> DanielC: not necessarily
<DanielC> ok
<andi5> DanielC: it can be damn bad if this circumvents your firewall
<EmxBA> DanielC: could you help me with orinoco
<DanielC> andi5: Ubuntu has no firewall anyways.
<andi5> huh?
<andi5> DanielC: run $ iptables -L   and tell me what you see ;-)
<DanielC> EmxBA: Orinoco is a large rive branching from the amazon in Brazil and flowing through Venezuela into a delta into the Caribean, near Trinidad and Tobago. If that's not the one you're talking about, I can't help you :)
<EmxBA> :) DanielC
<EmxBA> i meant orinoco wireless chipsets
<DanielC> andi5: No firewall rules.
<EmxBA> ;)
<andi5> hm.... then i must have configured it by just running firestarter once.... maybe i am wrong then :)
<DanielC> andi5: Ubuntu defaults to not having any firewall, but also not having any services listening to any ports.
<DanielC> Works well.
<EmxBA>  DanielC: can you help me or not?
* EmxBA needs help...
<DanielC> EmxBA: As I said, the only Orinoco I know is the river. No, I know nothing about the chipset.
<EmxBA> :)
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> np
<EmxBA> i'll try on #orinoco maybe
<EmxBA> :)
<andi5> EmxBA: i am quite sure there are loads of documents about linux+orinoco in the internet, as well as ubuntu+orinoco, have you tried to search a bit?
<highvoltage> i had an orinoco card before and it just worked.
<highvoltage> does iwconfig show the card?
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> but iwlist eth1 scan doesn't show anything
<EmxBA> but kismet does :)
<EmxBA> really
<highvoltage> and if you do a iwconfig eth1 essid NETWORKNAME key YOURKEY
<highvoltage> does it connect?
<EmxBA> and if the network doesn't require key
<EmxBA> doesn't use WEP
<EmxBA> than what?
<highvoltage> then you can just leave out the key part
<highvoltage> you should be able to set it up with the graphical network manager without any problems too.
<EmxBA> i tried that, for example iwconfig eth1 essid "HOTEL SARAJ WIRELESS" 
<EmxBA> :)
<EmxBA> and nothing
<EmxBA> i got connected
<EmxBA> but i had no route
<EmxBA> nothing setup
<EmxBA> in graphical network manager i cannot connect
<highvoltage> do you have dhcp on your network?
<EmxBA> i need to know right IP and gateway
<highvoltage> perhaps try a dhclient eth1 ?
<EmxBA> highvoltage, i think you haven't found out that I am searching for help for hacking into open wireless network :)
<EmxBA> i do not know if there is any dhcp
<highvoltage> heh
<EmxBA> just found out (in kismet) that it doesn't use WEp
<EmxBA> :)
<EmxBA> great!
<EmxBA> if you want to see few of my screenshots, go to http://217.75.202.153/
<EmxBA> that's my apache server running (currently) on my laptop on which I am currently writing this, connected trough DIALUP :) 
<EmxBA> seen it?
<EmxBA> this LOLair06 has WEP indeed
<highvoltage> no, haven't seen it yet
<EmxBA> just go to 217.75.202.153/
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> seems like i'm killing your connection. it's a bit slow :)
<EmxBA> i know :)
<EmxBA> yes, you are kiilling it really 
<EmxBA> upload:5kb
<EmxBA> :)
<highvoltage> heh
<EmxBA> :)
<EmxBA> after you see it, can you help me with gcc?
<EmxBA> i installed it "sudo apt-get install gcc"
<EmxBA> but when i want to compile any app, i get error:C compiler cannot create executables
<highvoltage> i don't know what causes that. the little coding i do happens in python. i have yet to learn the wonders of C.
<EmxBA> do you have Gcc installed?
<highvoltage> yes
<EmxBA> and?
<EmxBA> can you compile anything
<EmxBA> maybe cflags are bad?
<highvoltage> i compiled a modem driver a while ago, so i suppose mine works.
<EmxBA> ok
<highvoltage> yay! my visa is approved! (just in time) shew!
<EmxBA> :)
<DanielC> This is bad. My thin client doesn't work again. When I try to login the screen goes black (normal) for a few moments but then, instead of starting Gnome, it logs back out.
<DanielC> Any ideas? Help?
<EmxBA> hi pygi
<ogra> highvoltage, congrats !
<pygi> ogra, what he did, what he did? :)
<ogra> <highvoltage> yay! my visa is approved! (just in time) shew!
<ogra> <EmxBA> :)
<ogra> oops
<pygi> ogra, niiiice :)
<ogra> (only the first line indeed)
<pygi> congrats highvoltage ;)
<highvoltage> thanks ogra and pygi :)
<ogra> hmm? whats wrong with opening an .exe file on a linux system ? with a correctly configured wine that works flawless
<pygi> I do hope I'll be able to attend next conference :-/
<pygi> ogra, or if it's a .Net .exe file :)
<ogra> pygi, you can ask for sponsoring ;)
<pygi> ogra, indeed, if I remember to do so :P
<pygi> not that I would get approved or anything, but :)
<ogra> well, nautilus gets a mime handler for 
<ogra> .exe
<ogra> if you install wine ...
<ogra> so you should just be able to dubleclick a setup.exe
<ogra> indeed you cant install XP this way, but well ;)
<pygi> right, but I wouldnt like wine handle .Net exe files, if that can be handled much better then Mono :P
<pygi> bleh, true :)
<pygi> I had kinda good discussion with the author of TeacherTool (or something like that :P)
<ogra> i saw it
<ogra> you didnt tell him that we dont use X at all
<pygi> ah, good :)
<pygi> yup, I am aware of that :P
<pygi> We will continue discussion by mail anyway
<ogra> an X extension for ltsp 4.2 cant work for us
<highvoltage> ogra: there's nothing more wrong with it than running a java application, imho!
<ogra> he's nagging since breezy already, i had a look at the code and didnt find much stuff we could reuse
<pygi> hm,ok, so no need for me to look again?
<ogra> our problem is ssh integration
<pygi> right
<DanielC> I can't login from the thin clients. After I type in the user name and password it logs me out again. It's just as if I had typed the wrong user name and password (except that I didn't).
<ogra> additionally the ui makes me scream ... i wouldt give that to any teacher ...
<pygi> ogra, that I agree :)
<DanielC> How can I modify what the client computer does when you type the wrong password? That would help me diagnose the problem.
<cbx33> hiya all
<ogra> DanielC, did you change the NIc or the IP rnage or something like that for the client network on the server ?
<ogra> *range
<DanielC> ogra: I added a new network card. I think I configured things correctly.
<cbx33> I think you did din't you DanielC 
<cbx33> you need to update the ssh keys
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> What was that command again?
<DanielC> ltsp-update-sshkeys?
<cbx33> ltsp-update-keys
<DanielC> I was close :)
* pygi runs away now
<cbx33> i think yo are right
* DanielC updates the keys
<ogra> DanielC, you were *right* (not close) ;)
* cbx33 is about to post up a screenshot of the brand new gisomount UI
<cbx33> ogra: I should have known that seeing as I wrote the man pages
<ogra> well, i often got it wrong as well in the beginning ;)
<DanielC> ogra :)  I'm rebooting the client now, let's see what happens...
<DanielC> ogra: Doesn't work :(
<ogra> is the ssh server running ? 
<DanielC> The most significant change recently is that I replaced a NIC.
<ogra> and did it update the keys for the right IP ?
<ogra> (the output should tell you)
<cbx33> :)
<DanielC> The output lists both IP addresses.
<ogra> ok
<DanielC> I ran /etc/init.d/ssh restart. No change.
<ogra> and the sshd is running
<ogra> ok
<ogra> can the user log in directly on the server without probs ? 
<DanielC> I can't find anything in /var/log/messages or /var/log/daemon.log
<DanielC> Yes. If I'm sitting right at the server I can log in.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> create a rootpw on the client with: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<DanielC> What's a rootpw?
<ogra> then make a login attempt on the client, switch to console there and log in as root
<ogra> a root password
<DanielC> ok
* DanielC goes to the server
<DanielC> Ok, I'm root on the client text console.
<ogra> did you first make a login attempt through the gui ? 
<DanielC> yes
<ogra> (with the user you used before)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> so have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
* DanielC is looking, trying to make sense of the log
<DanielC> I'm sure that "Exit stauts -1" is bad.
<ogra> yes
<ogra> can you scp it to the server and then put it online anywhere so i can have a look ?
<DanielC> Will do.
<ogra> sigh, 120 mails in -users ...
<DanielC> got it. Where's the pastebin again?
* DanielC finds pastebin.com
<ogra> pastebin.ca for example
<DanielC> http://pastebin.com/710515
<ogra> #
<ogra> #
<ogra> Connection to 192.168.17.1 closed by remote host.
<DanielC> :(
<ogra> your problem lies on the server
<ogra> have a look at the users .xsession-errors file (in the users homedir)
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> oh, and make sure to not have sabayon installed unless you added a profile for every user
<ogra> sabayonn breaks ssh connections if no profiles are set up
<DanielC> damm!
<DanielC> sabayon it is
<ogra> heh
<DanielC> Ok, so what's the solution? To setup a profile for every user?
<ogra> we'll fix that by adding some basic profiles for edgy 
<ogra> yes
<DanielC> Ok, I'll go and do that now. Thanks.
<DanielC> ogra: IT WORKS!!  Thanks!
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> ogra: www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> see the glorious new UI :D
<slashdevnull> ogra: Still around?
<pygi> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi!
<jsgotangco> anyway i have this funny story with the embassy
<jsgotangco> yesterday they told me they couldn't issue the electronic visa because their system was down or not connecting to somewhere god only knows
<jsgotangco> but promised it would be done by friday
<jsgotangco> so i went to work today and planned to have someone pick up my passport tomorrow
<jsgotangco> but i called up the embassy just to make sure if its allowed
<jsgotangco> they told me they still can't issue an electronic visa but said its ok even im supposed to leave on saturday morning here
<jsgotangco> because they're going to issue me and the rest...
<jsgotangco> HANDWRITTEN ONES
<ogra> haha
<ogra> bureocracy fun 
<ogra> slashdevnull, yes
<jsgotangco> in my mind i said, so much for french technology
<jsgotangco> heh me and 50 others yesterday were screaming for blood
<slashdevnull> ogra, I'm still having the same problem as yesterday with ltsp on 6.06. However, I removed "quiet" and "splash" at boot time, and am seeing what looks to be the culprit
<slashdevnull> Not video drivers. It's not getting that far.
<slashdevnull> The final line, before everything grinds to a halt, is "nfs: server 192.168.4.2 not responding, still trying"
<ogra> and 192.168.4.2 is surely your nfs server ?
<jsgotangco> ogra: was the fun stuff you said yesterday concerned teamspeak?
<ogra> did it already get annonced ? 
<jsgotangco> i received an email from elmo about it
<jsgotangco> me and ajmitch were using it earlier
<ogra> ah, cool
<ogra> my amd64 lappie has no mic, so i cant really test before i have a headset
<ogra> but at least we have it working on amd64 
<jsgotangco> im bringing a headset heh
<slashdevnull> ogra: Yes, and other machines (already running a full environment) can access that share
<ogra> slashdevnull, and you dont run a second dhcp server in that network or something ?
<ogra> cbx33, the screenshot looks sexy ... 
<slashdevnull> I do not. That server does dhcp for that segment, thin and thick clients
<ogra> and you didnt fiddle with /etc/hosts.allow or with any firewall rules or other crap that would break it ? 
<slashdevnull> I didn't, but I can check those.
<ogra> well, if you didnt change the defaults that should be fine
<slashdevnull> They look good. hosts.* are empty except for comments.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> can you post your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to pastebin ? 
<slashdevnull> The last thing on-screen before stopping at that final error is scripts/init-* stuff
<slashdevnull> I do not have an /etc/ltsp. Is that a part of -standalone?
<ogra> err, yes
<ogra> so where does your dhcp server run  then ? 
<slashdevnull> The server is running the "dhcp" package, which is 2.0pl5-19.4 according to dpkg
<ogra> so you run it *on* the ltsp server anyway ? 
<slashdevnull> It also has dhcp3-client and dhcp3-common installed.
<slashdevnull> yes
<ogra> why didnt you use standalone then ? it comes preconfigured
<slashdevnull> We were doing kickstart stuff on this server before setting it up as ltsp. It was already set up for that
<ogra> you only need to change the ip rnage in the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to match the interface and it should run
<slashdevnull> But, if I can make -standalone work for that, I can make the switch, sure
<slashdevnull> I will backup my /etc/dhcpd.conf, remove dhcp server, ltsp-server, and install standalone
<ogra> i suspect something is wrong with your dhcpd.conf (thats the reason why -standalone ships a very simplyfied version of that file that works right)
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> no
<ogra> just install -standalone
<slashdevnull> ok
<ogra> no need to remove or backup anything
<ogra> it wont touch your old conf ;)
<ogra> (it will just ignore it)
<slashdevnull> "The following packages will be removed: dhcp." That made me think I should backup. :)
<ogra> it wont touch anya files you modified unless you use the --purge switch
<ogra> ERRRRRRR
<ogra> 2.0pl5-19.4
<ogra> where the heck did you get such an old obsolete dhcpd version ?
<ogra> tzhats not an ubuntu package
<slashdevnull> dunno.
<ogra> are you sure you didnt break the system by adding debian repos ? 
<slashdevnull> must have gotten put in by one of the other admins. grrr...
<slashdevnull> Our other servers are debian
<ogra> aha
<ogra> looks to me like there is a mixed debian ubuntu setup running ...
<slashdevnull>  cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<slashdevnull> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted universe multiverse
<slashdevnull> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main restricted universe multiverse
<slashdevnull> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted universe multiverse
<slashdevnull> No debian repos in there
<ogra> the only thing you could do then would be a reinstall
<slashdevnull> of dhcpd?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> of the system
<ogra> there is no way to clean up that mess if you mix the repos
<slashdevnull> I'll check all of the installed packages for non-ubuntu 
<ogra> how would you do that ? 
<slashdevnull> That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm starting with dpkg -l and loosing everything that shows "ubuntu" in it. Then, looking at what's left
<ogra> that doesnt work
<ogra> only packages we manually changed have the ubuntu tag in the version string ...
<ogra> packages that are just rebuilt from debian with ubuntu dependencys wont have it 
<slashdevnull> Right, but the others can be passed into apt-cache show, and checked to see what they provide or require, filtering that many more of them out.
<ogra> (but are still binary incompatible with debian)
<slashdevnull> ogra: The "dhscp" package says "Origin: Ubuntu"
<slashdevnull> er, "dhcp"
<slashdevnull> It's from Universe. :P
<ogra> aha
<ogra> heh
<slashdevnull> So, Install dhcp3-server, right?
<ogra> sorry, i should have grokked that ... no debian alert then, but get the right packages :)
<mhz> ogra: hi there
<ogra> just install -standalone it should sort it
<slashdevnull> Alrighty
<ogra> hey mhz 
<mhz> ogra: as you know, there's this bolivian guy coming to Chile. I offered myself to provide him with Edubuntu CD's instead of Edubuntu DVD (they have no web connection no DVD drives)
<ogra> mhz, he can order CD via shipit
<ogra> *CDs
<mhz> ogra: i am lost. What should I look up in Google? 
<ogra> ??
<mhz> ogra: he needs the DVD content in CDs
<ogra> i'm not sure what you mean
<mhz> he needs lots of spanish support
<mhz> to install in his lab
<ogra> ah, k
<mhz> yeah..
<mhz> me and my non expressing well in english
<mhz> :)
<ogra> google for jigit and jigdo
<mhz> he will request from shipit though + he'll get my cds
<ogra> you should be able to make jigdo images
<mhz> ogra: and is the 'expression': how to split DVD into many CDs?
<mhz> or you mean, jigit will automatically split it for me?
<ogra> i never used it, but i suppose so
<mhz> okis
<jsgotangco> mhz: it will
<mhz> jsgotangco: hey!
<mhz> thx
<slashdevnull> So, ogra, just checking: The only file I should have to edit now is /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf. Not the one in /etc/dhcp3
<ogra> yep
<slashdevnull> coolio
<ogra> only change the ip ranges ...
<slashdevnull> alright. I have named hosts as well. Put thos in there, or another file?
<ogra> the gettingstarted doc has instructions (see channel topic)
<ogra> put them in there
<slashdevnull> ok. thanks
<ogra> if /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf exists, the server will only read that one
<slashdevnull> Looks like I may be ready for yet another thinny reboot. Wanna take odds? ;)
<slashdevnull> ogra: Stopped at the same point.
<bddebian> Howdy
<ogra> slashdevnull, hmm
<ogra> and you can mount /opt/ltsp from any other machine thats not a thin client ? 
<slashdevnull> yup
<ogra> i see no reason at all why it shouldnt work with ltsp ... weird
<slashdevnull> YEah.
<slashdevnull> I'm about ready to wipe and clean-install the whole box, just in case
<ogra> you dont have any universe nfs packages installed by chance ? or a selfcompiled nfs server or something differently weird ? 
<slashdevnull> I'll check
<ogra> all dpkg -l |grep nfs should show are nfs-kernel-server, nfs-common and libnfsidmap1
<slashdevnull> that's it
<slashdevnull> ii  libnfsidmap1      0.8-1          An nfs idmapping library
<slashdevnull> ii  nfs-common        1.0.7-3ubuntu2 NFS support files common to client and serve
<slashdevnull> ii  nfs-kernel-server 1.0.7-3ubuntu2 Kernel NFS server support
<ogra> looks fine
<ogra> portmap is also at 5-16ubuntu2 i assume
<slashdevnull> ii  portmap            5-16ubuntu2        The RPC portmapper
<ogra> and both (nfsd/portmap) are running on the server i assume
<slashdevnull> yes
<chris-t4> I am a newbie to using this IRC. Is this the proper place to  help with Edubuntu documentation?
<ogra> yep
<chris-t4> Great. I am creating some videos and spoken with JaneW about this earlier. They can be viewed at http://www.learningelectric.com/edubuntu.html     I need some feedback about these and suggestions for creating more videos. They are Flash format.
<JaneW> hey chris-t4 !
<chris-t4> Hi Jane. I found the chat room!
* JaneW endorses chris-t4 's videos
<JaneW> welcome
<DanielC> ogra:  Is sound supported on thin clients? From the website I can see that you've been thinking a lot about the issue but I can't tell if it's been resolved.
<chris-t4> I have not tried to see the videos from a thin client and don't currently have access to do this. Could someone give it a try?
<ogra> DanielC, yes, it is, you need to add SOUND=True to your lts.conf file
<DanielC> ogra: thanks. Do I need to reboot anything after that? Just the thin client?
<ogra> chris-t4, running video on thin clients is generally a bad idea and rather runs like a slideshow
<ogra> just the client
<DanielC> thanks
<jsgotangco> JaneW: !
<JaneW> hey jsgotangco 
* JaneW is just lurking
<DanielC> ogra: My only lts.conf file is in an "examples" directory. It looks like I don't have an "active" lts.conf. Is this bad? (I don't know what lts.conf does).
<JaneW> I serendipetously got the day off :)))
<jsgotangco> oh really
<jsgotangco> or are you just starting to have withdrawal symptoms
<ogra> DanielC, you need to create one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<ogra> containing the line:
<JaneW> I have done a 5km run, a 2km walk, dropped and fetched my kids from school, saw a movie and did a little shopping - perfect
<ogra> [default]   SOUND=True
<DanielC> ogra: Ok. Is it ok if that file has that one line and nothing else?
<JaneW> and I was asked if I am an athlete at the shop...LMAO
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> not bad for someone doing nothing today
<DanielC> ogra: thanks
<JaneW> jsgotangco: no I am someone doing as I please today. I could get used to this :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> JaneW, well, you never belived us the lara croft comparison ... do you now ? ;)
<jsgotangco> do you happen to know if higvoltage got his visa
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and I am going to gym in an hour, to V-box \o/
<jsgotangco> because he told me tomorrow is a holiday in za
<ogra> i think he said he has
<jsgotangco> JaneW: health freak
<JaneW> jsgotangco: er he didn;t say anything about it yesterday. I hope so!
<JaneW> he does have a firm grip though! ;)
<ogra> DanielC, if you want to change settings for a specific workstation in lts.conf you replace default with te MAC address of the NIC of that client (or add a stanza for it)
<chris-t4> Ogra - These videos explain how to do a workstation install and set up a computer with a teacher and student account. I thought this would be the experience that most teachers have first with Edubuntu.
<ogra> chris-t4, yep
<jsgotangco> where are these videos?
<DanielC> ogra: Is that the typical use of lts.conf? To change settings for one workstation?
<chris-t4> http://www.learningelectric.com/edubuntu.html
<jsgotangco> did anyone hear of the worldcup in telnet ascii
<ogra> DanielC, the typical usage of lts.conf in ltsp.org's ltsp is to do the setup *at all*, the typical use of lts.conf in ubuntu ltsp is to override the autodetection :)
<DanielC> :)
* ogra is annoyed enough be having the worldcup if he steps out the door ... no need for additional online soccer stuff :)
<ogra> but i saw the link :)
<jsgotangco> nice videos
<jsgotangco> ogra: i hope germany loses then
<ogra> :P
<ogra> i hope they dont, all that depression in the streets will even be harder to bear
<DanielC> ogra: It didn't work, but at this stage I can't rule out hardware so I'll test that.
<ogra> indeed that Hw autodetection for the soundcard driver must work, else you'Re screwed
<ogra> i.e. clients with cyrix chipset have no driver at all that works
<ogra> even they have a soundcard, you cant use it
<DanielC> ogra: I can hear the sound on the *server's* sound card. Is that a bad sign?
<ogra> that indicates that something went wrong
<DanielC> Thought so.
<ogra> you should either have no sound at all or sound from the client
<DanielC> You sure I don't need to restart anything besides the thin client?
<ogra> you didnt typo in lts.conf or something ? 
<chris-t4> jsgotangco - Thanks
<jsgotangco> hmm
<DanielC> cat /opt/ltsp/etc/lts.conf
<DanielC> [default]  SOUND=True
<jsgotangco> ogra: is there a kernel update?
<ogra> DanielC, and what about /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
<ogra> ;)
<DanielC> ogra: oops, mis-typed
<DanielC> yes, I put it in ie86
<DanielC> i386
<ogra> jsgotangco, only edgy afaik
* DanielC just realized that now he can ssh to the server so he doesn't have to retype stuff.
<ogra> yeah :)
<jsgotangco> i just got an update for 2.6.15-25
<DanielC> ogra: cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<DanielC> [default]  SOUND=True
<DanielC> ogra: (and this one is a copy-and-paste)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> jsgotangco, i dont have any kernel upgrades pending here
<cbx33> ogra, thanks for the compliment
<cbx33> bzr branch just updated :D
<cbx33> it's going good
<ogra> great ! :)
<cbx33> I'm learning :D
<cbx33> it'll soon be beta release time
<cbx33> think you'll have a mo to check out my code?
<cbx33> soon?
<cbx33> not now...it's not ready :p
<cbx33> bbl guys
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<HedgeMage> Hi, all
<bddebian> Hello HedgeMage
<spacey> anyone uses scribus here?
<spacey> nasty program
<spacey> I can't write in a text area en when i import text it only displays squares
<ogra> there was a bug about entering numbers in textfields, but that one is new+
<bddebian> spacey: Change the default font
<bddebian> There is a bug in LP about it
<bddebian> I'd love to fix it but I can't figure out how scribus determines it's default font
<ogra> Qt ...
<spacey> bddebian: thanks, that helped at lot
<bddebian> I live to serve ;-)
<spacey> ogra, its really nasty. 
<spacey> too bad there is not a GTK variant
<ogra> spacey, its a Qt bug and i didnt want to risk triggering a KDE rebuild short before release
<spacey> ok =)
<HedgeMage> hi bddebian, ogra, spacey 
<spacey> hi
<chris-t4> Questions for creating documentation - If a teacher is going to create one non-administrative student account for all students to use, what would be some best security practices?
<ogra> none, since that wont work well
<chris-t4> This works very well in our school district with OS X. Is there not a way to do this well with Edubuntu also?
<ogra> there is no way to do it in a sane way with openoffice and firefox, the desktop isnt the problem
<ogra> but since you will likely use one of these apps, you should rather have an account per client
<ogra> or per user
<jsgotangco> they don't integrate well :/
* jsgotangco coughs *epiphany*
<ogra> epiphany should at least solve the browser prob
<ogra> edgy will help us there :)
<jsgotangco> *abiword* cough *gnumeric* cough
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> nah
<jsgotangco> i was kidding
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> i know ;)
<jsgotangco> hmm so the kernel updates are from -security
<HedgeMage> chris-t4: also, if all students are logging on as the same user, they can all access and change one another's files, etc etc.
<HedgeMage> chris-t4: it is a *bad thing* to share logins
<ogra> PS: Congratulations and thanks for building Edubuntu.
<ogra> It is the best looking *ubuntu of the bunch. rh.
<ogra> haha :D
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> You know, it wouldn't be hard to hack together a script to take a plaintext list of student names, create an account for each according to some profile, and then output a list of usernames and pws 
<ogra> sadly he didnt sign with RH. else we could pretend its redhat :)
<HedgeMage> I should do that.
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> chris-t4: would something like that help you out at all?
<dan_young> HedgeMage: In my former school district, we used the 6-digit student IDs that all students had memorized for the lunch line...
<ogra> there are several ... just pick the best and package it ;)
<HedgeMage> ogra: since you know they exist, do you know any that are any good? :P
<ogra> well, some users used some in breezy and that seemed to work 
<ogra> dont ask me which ones :)
* HedgeMage is afraid to ask why one would need to memorize a 6-digit number to eat lunch
* dan_young is too
<HedgeMage> hehe
* HedgeMage pictures the PE teacher staring at some database and then telling little Johnnie (who had ho-hos for dessert today) that he's scheduled for thirty extra push-ups
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> ciao
<HedgeMage> ttyl jsgotangco 
<ogra> night jsgotangco 
<chris-t4> There are too many students and the students already have an afp sharepoint to save their files.
* dan_young wonders if a password hash is a breakfast food...
* HedgeMage giggles at dan_young 
<dan_young> chris-t4: how do the students know what their sharepoint is?
<ogra> md5sum /home/$USER/muesli
<ogra> ?
<chris-t4> We have sharepoints created on OS X servers. 
<dan_young> right, but the students must have usernames and passwords to log on to those, right?
<HedgeMage> darn, dan_young you beat me to it :P
<chris-t4> correct
<dan_young> so the Edubuntu server can authenticate users against the OS X server's LDAP database...
<pygi> HedgeMage, today is meeting?
<HedgeMage> pygi: yep, in a few hours
<pygi> 20 UTC or h
<pygi> what?
<HedgeMage> 20:00 UTC
<pygi> right
<dan_young> chris-t4: NFS mount /Users as /home and auth against the OS X server, and becomes pretty transparent...
<chris-t4> Thanks, I will try this.
<pygi> HedgeMage, I will try to attend
<HedgeMage> pygi: cool
<chris-t4> I would really like it if there was a open source program like DeepFreeze for Edubuntu. We use this to create one student account that is "frozen". The students can alter things, but when the machine is restarted everything returns back to it's original state.
<ogra> you mean like pessulus ?
<DanielC> chris-t4: Good job with the flash tutorials. I notice that you created 1 account for all the pupils. Has that worked well for you?
* DanielC googles for pessulus
<chris-t4> I am not familiar with this. Does it for the same way?
<HedgeMage> chris-t4: that's actually similar to something we've been talking about on the mailing list recently... there was something available but I forget what it was called.
<ogra> pessulus is a lockdown tool for the desktop ...
<DanielC> chris-t4: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1082
<chris-t4> DanielC - It has worked very well with other OS's, but I am now trying to make it work with Edubuntu.
<DanielC> chris-t4: OpenOffice.org and Firefox are likely to cause problems.
<chris-t4> DanielC - These are the kinds of things DeepFreeze stops.
<DanielC> chris-t4: I was going to create one account for each year group but after trying for a few days we decided to tell the head teacher that we just couldn't do it and it'd have to be a single account per PC.
<chris-t4> One account per student works great for elementary classrooms, but not secondary. There can be thousands of students.
<slashdevnull> ogra: update: Installing ltsp server on new hardware. Fresh, clean install.
<dan_young> chris-t4: we had a display manager "Session" type that just reset the desktop by nuking the desktop prefs; brutal but effective. If the student blows up their desktop, log out and log in with the Reset session to, erm, reset it.
<DanielC> chris-t4: I just installed pessulus here and I'm running it. It looks like it'll prevent students from making changes (as opposed to deleting changes on logout).
<chris-t4> Sounds like both of those may be good solutions. 
<DanielC> Run "sudo aptitude install pessulus" and give it a go.
<chris-t4> what about application preferences?
<DanielC> Doesn't look like it...
<DanielC> Well...
<DanielC> I see the option "disable save to disk"
<dan_young> chris-t4: a complete solution probably will include several methods; might look in to a .bashrc that does some magic
<DanielC> That should take care of any preferences, right?
<DanielC> Any application preferences involves saving to the disk. So I assume that if we disable save to disk that should take care of everything...
<chris-t4> This will take some experimenting. I'm trying to create documentation for the average teacher to be able to do this though so the process can't be too technical.
<slashdevnull> ogra: Success with new server. Thanks for all of the help. Now I just need to figure out how to make everything work on the old server. :P
<slashdevnull> ogra: I am even using fglrx on the new server. Unfortunately, the new "server" is a workstation, made to do double-duty for the moment.
<ogra> just make everything the same as on the working one :P  :)
<slashdevnull> heh
<slashdevnull> Everything... but the hardware.
<slashdevnull> The old server is beefy.
<ogra> yeah looks like
<slashdevnull> So... how do I take "Hibernate" out of the new Logout menu?
<slashdevnull> Hopefully users can'thibernate the server. :P
<ogra> search for hibernate in gconf-editor
<ogra> there is a key for that you can uncheck
<LaserJock> can we make that default for the server install?
<slashdevnull> Seems like a sane default
<slashdevnull> :)
<ogra> hmm, might get a bit tricky
<highvoltage> slashdevnull: luckily users can't hibernate, no :)
<LaserJock> no? I thought they went underground right after release? oh wait, that's devs, nvm ;-)
<RobinShepheard> hi all
<LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> hiya LaserJock
<RobinShepheard> how are you??
<LaserJock> tired
<RobinShepheard> how come??
<LaserJock> I'm warming up for the jet lag ;-)
<RobinShepheard> jet lag??
<LaserJock> I'm having a hard time sleaping because I'm thinking about Ubuntu :-)
<LaserJock> Paris
<LaserJock> and yes, I'm that pathetic
<RobinShepheard> lol, I got you, unfortunately, due to joining the project a bit late I can't make paris
<RobinShepheard> I wasn't around yesterday, I take it the cookbook meeting is still on tonight??
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> I'd ask pygi or HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> whowhat?
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep, it's in just over 2 hours
<RobinShepheard> cheers HedgeMage, pygi said to pester you about acceptance to the cookbook team
<RobinShepheard> is it possible to be accepted,please, pretty pretty please ;)
<chris-t4> Does the cookbook meeting take place here? I would like to listen in if possible. Sorry I'm a little new.
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: why'd pygi say to ask me? silly mario...  I'd say once your first contribution gets added would be a good time, kind of a celebration :D
<RobinShepheard> lol HedgeMage, Slave driver
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: It is in #ubuntu-meeting again tonight isn't it??
<LaserJock>  more like motivator ;-)
<RobinShepheard> same meaning different end of the motivation LaserJock ;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<dan_young> chris-t4: I think they're all in #ubuntu-meeting
<chris-t4> Thank you
<RobinShepheard> sorry chris-t4, I was trying to get HedgeMage to confirm the location before I commited
<RobinShepheard> guess she is probably a little busy
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep, #ubunt-meeting
<HedgeMage> sorry, I'm preoccupied.
<RobinShepheard> cheers, No problem, I know there are other things more important than me :-(
<chris-t4> RobinShepard - no problem
<dan_young> RobinShepheard: I just saw that the Fridge said so, and I believe everything I read on the intarweb.
<RobinShepheard> lol
<LaserJock> dan_young: yeah, well fridge had a doc team meeting today that is really tomorrow :/
<LaserJock> my iCal was all messed up ;(
<dan_young> LaserJock: so there you go, I'm full of it and that is now well documented. ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<HedgeMage> LOL
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: can I bug you in /msg?
<ogra> HedgeMage, did someone mail the fridge guys so the channel is booked ? 
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: sure
<HedgeMage> ogra: yep, it's all taken care of :D
<LaserJock> ogra: it's on fridge so I would assume so
<ogra> i had to bear some major rants because nobody of you books the room right
<HedgeMage> ogra: on the fridge calandar and the #ubuntu-meeting topic and everything
<ogra> ok
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> :D
<HedgeMage> ogra: yeah, well, this is my first time doing it, but I followed Seveas' instructions, so if I did it wrong blame him ;)
<ogra> no, its fine 
<RobinShepheard> neat pass HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hehe
<ogra> i'm just worried about riddel killing me in paris because we have clashing meetings we both didnt register :P
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> we need #ubuntu-meeting-informal for the casual get-together :-)
<LaserJock> first come - first serve
<dan_young> erm, #ubuntu-watercooler?
<RobinShepheard> so LaserJock how can you tell if I am casual or not ????? :-)
<LaserJock> dan_young: yeah, cool
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: if it is on fridge or not ;-)
<RobinShepheard> lol ok, I flopped
<LaserJock> or maybe fridge should turn into Ubuntu Scheduling since generally you don't put formal meeting annoucments on your fridge neccesarily
<LaserJock> or mabye you do
<RobinShepheard> is there an edubuntu fridge ??
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I put mine on a markerboard across the hall from the fish tank :P
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, I was thinking more markerboardish
<RobinShepheard> I hate to say it but mine are in gtodo
<slashdevnull> Looks like ltsp sound is "implemented" according to launchpad, but SOUND is listed as not implemented in the lts.conf wiki page. 
<slashdevnull> Can I get sound to work on my individual thin clients?
<slashdevnull> highvoltage: I do not believe you re: users not being able to hibernate the thin client. And, with good reason.
* slashdevnull reboots the ltsp server... ;)
* RobinShepheard ballsed it all up early when he put server in hibernate :(
<lucasvo> the new gnome-terminal is crap!
<lucasvo> anybody know how I can change the locale?
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: doesn't it use the system default locale??
<highvoltage> slashdevnull: hmmm... that's quite bad, perhaps i've just missed it, which is very strange. can they shut down the server too? (from a thin client)
<slashdevnull> let me check
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes, and it sucks
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: with locale I mean input method
<RobinShepheard> ahh I got you, I thought that you ment some how it was using a different one
<slashdevnull> It's taking a few minutes to get back. hiberbate horked dhcp-server
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: as in keyboard layout
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes
<lucasvo> UTF-8 or Western ISO 
<lucasvo> before the last update I was able to select it directly from the Keyboard Settings...
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: how come it is only a problem in gnome-terminal
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: There was a submenu Keyboard Settings
<lucasvo> (in gnome-terminal)
<RobinShepheard> I understand that, but surely if it is wrong in gnome-trminal it must be wrong all across the board shoudn't it ??
<RobinShepheard> *terminal
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: no. There *was* an option to change
<lucasvo> the setting for every single tab indivudally
<lucasvo> for e.g. I had a tab with utf-8 and a tab with western iso
<slashdevnull> highvoltage: I can no longer login via thin client to do any more testing. :P
<slashdevnull> Login no longer works. :P
<slashdevnull> I can login directly on the server, however.
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: can you possibly add it in gconf-editor and then choose from there?, I dont know I have not tried
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: I'll file a wishlistbug to get the submenu back :P
<lucasvo> in general the new config editor in gnome-terminal is a "royal PITA"
<highvoltage> slashdevnull: :(
<slashdevnull> RobinShepheard: What did you do to recover from the hibernate problem?
<RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: pulled the power cable :(
<slashdevnull> heh. That doesn't seem to be working on this end
<RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: it was only a test server
<lucasvo> I *love* the WinXP bug :)_
<RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: you have pulled all the power cable and left for 2 mins then put them back in a rebooted and it is still borked ?
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: you can change the encodings but that seems to be about it in gconf-editor
<slashdevnull> Well, I have not given it the requisite 2 minutes. Maybe I'll try letting it sit and think about how bad it's being while I go to lunch
<RobinShepheard> well I tried it and it seemed to work, but I wouldn't hold my breath, oh I tried to powercycle with the power button before I pulled the plug
<RobinShepheard> power light wason when I pulled the plug
<RobinShepheard> * was on even
<slashdevnull> ok, thanks. I will be back. must eat - it's almost 3pm here, and I have had even breakfast yet today. :P
<RobinShepheard> no probs, enjoy lunch
<RobinShepheard> ping ogra
<RobinShepheard> ping ogra__
<HedgeMage> *** Reminder: Edubuntu Cookbook meeting in 1.5 hours.
<HedgeMage> I'll be back before the meeting
* HedgeMage waves
<RobinShepheard> I keep checking the time
* RobinShepheard waves back
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: where can I find the option in gconf-editor?
<RobinShepheard> apps -> gnome-terminal -> global -> active encodings
<lucasvo> ty
<RobinShepheard> then you can choose character encoding under terminal
<RobinShepheard>  lucasvo no problem
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: in Terminal I only have: Set Title, Reset and clear, Reset
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: I don't know whether it will fix your problem as the encoding is fine for me
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: I am actually missing this entry
<lucasvo> that's the whole pont
<lucasvo> it somehow disapperard
<RobinShepheard> when you have gone into gconf-editor and added a new encoding
<RobinShepheard> it appears
<ogra> RobinShepheard, sorry i'm just in a meeting
<RobinShepheard> ogra sorry to bother you but I have been thinking a bit about stuff to leave out of edgy, where do I leave suggestions??
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: it disappeared in an update
<ogra> what do you mean by "leave out of edgy" ?
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: I went into gconf-editor and added a new encoding and then it appeared in the menu
<RobinShepheard> ogra: the slimming down of the cd
<ogra> aha
<RobinShepheard> ogra: as the main market at the moment seems to be schools with pupils around the 16yrs and under, do you really need blender??
<ogra> it was a major request on the edubuntu summit to have it
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard, ogra: one could make a Voting on Edubuntu website
<RobinShepheard> I am only going by the uk schools but that is way above anything thay teach here
<ogra> additionally its only about 2M or 5 or something
<ogra> lucasvo, surely not
<lucasvo> ogra: why not?
<ogra> RobinShepheard, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-edgy-cd-diet
<RobinShepheard> true, but 2M would be a few language packs
<lucasvo> ogra: a voting for which apps you need in edubuntu is reasonable imho
<ogra> that links to a wikipage where i added a "user suggestions" section at the bottom
<ogra> lucasvo, because votes are not really reliable
<lucasvo> sure
<ogra> RobinShepheard, 2M it not even 1 langpack
<RobinShepheard> ahh I got it, cheers for that
<ogra> probably half or a quater of one ...
<RobinShepheard> ahh but you were talking about dropping the kde ones in the article and creating ones just for kdeedu
<ogra> yo always have to take into account that we ship the whole of KDE translations for every lang we ship
<ogra> *if* we decide to do it that way, yes ...
<ogra> but the current situation means several MB for KDE for every lang
<RobinShepheard> true, there is also the fact that gcompris links to gnuchess but it is not installed by default
<RobinShepheard> also 'cos of space I understand
<RobinShepheard> other thought would be to use thunderbird instead of evolution as the email client
<RobinShepheard> the main advantage to evolution seems to be the exchange support, but I don't know if many schools use exchange
<RobinShepheard> lucasvo: how is the encoding coming along??
<ogra> lucasvo, the right way to make a new app selection is an edubuntu summit with as many educators as we can get there ...
<DarkElf109> Hey everyone. I've got an LTSP question
<DarkElf109> What's the best way to get sound and local mountable media working on thin clients?
<blue-frog> RobinShepheard: one good thing about evolution is the ability to share its calendar I believe
<befree> ola'
<befree> i'm experiencing some problem..
<RobinShepheard> blue-frog: fair point, but will that be used that much with school-tool??
<RobinShepheard> befree: go on
<befree> i get the X running but no login manager .. :(
<blue-frog> nope indeed
<befree> in the thin client
<RobinShepheard> DarkElf109: I dunno the answer to that one I am afraid
<blue-frog> RobinShepheard: thing is as well evolution works with palm pilot, not thunderbird (asaik)
<befree> i'm using edubuntu 6.06 with a thin client with rtl8029
<blue-frog> RobinShepheard: byt then teachers with palm may not be a lot...
<befree> RobinShepheard, any ideia?
<RobinShepheard> blue-frog: and less kids with them
<RobinShepheard> befree: what is the problem in the thin client
<befree> it loads the kernel correctly
<befree> load X
<befree> but doesn't load any login manager
<RobinShepheard> what do you see on screen befree??
<befree> do you know the grey screen of X?
<befree> normally appearing before the login..
<RobinShepheard> as in straight X not the gnome session??
<befree> yes..
<highvoltage> befree: that sounds like a problem you can get when using ltsp.org. how did you install ltsp and edubuntu?
<befree> the normal installation..
<befree> without modification..
<RobinShepheard> edubuntu disk -> hard disk install ?
<highvoltage> i'm just scrolling up... rtl8029 is a very slow card. do you perhaps have a faster card around?
<befree> and apt-get update && upgrade
<befree> i'm in brasil.. in a poor conext
<highvoltage> ah, ok. so this isn't on thin clients? sorry... i made too many assumptions
<befree> i'm using a satellitar connection right now :) 
<befree> and i have to make a lesson to the professors of this village in order to they could use old pc to build a small "telecentro"
<RobinShepheard> befree, what happens if you ctrl+alt+f1 and then type sudo /etc/init.d/gdm/restart   when you ctrl+alt+f7 has login manager started??
<RobinShepheard> doh sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
<befree> to
<befree> it doesn't do anything
<RobinShepheard> what doesn't??
<befree> or.. better.. if i press ctrlaltf1 it doesn't switch to console
<RobinShepheard> ahh ok, how about using ctrl + alt + f2??
<befree> same thing :)
<RobinShepheard> if you hit caps locak does the light change??
<befree> it seems blocked..
<RobinShepheard> *lock even
<RobinShepheard> does caps lock turn the light on and off??
<ogra> befree, how much memory has that client ? 
<RobinShepheard> ogra: looks like you scared him away ;-)
<ogra> or the sattelite moved ::)
<RobinShepheard> lol
<DanielC> was he on a sattelite connection?
<RobinShepheard> yeah
<RobinShepheard> v. high latency on them isn't there ??
<DanielC> I couldn't quite figure out if he was sitting in front of a thin client or the server.
<RobinShepheard> nah, I was not sure
<ogra> he was talking about a client
<DanielC> ok
<RobinShepheard> I thought maybe if we could find out whether caps lock light worked at least we would know if he had crashed
<befree> opa'.. sorry i was in a call
<RobinShepheard> no problem
<DanielC> no problem
<ogra> he was pretty clear in his first three sentences i found
<DanielC> befree: Does caps lock do anything?
<RobinShepheard> with the light that is
<ogra> befree, an ubuntu thin client needs at least 48MB to reliably boot ... 
<ogra> better 64M
<befree> it has 64mb 
<ogra> thats fine
<DanielC> ogra: 64MB? That seems a tad high for a thin client. Yeah, I know people have a lot more today, but my first Linux computer had like 16MB.
<ogra> did the installation finish properly without any errors ? 
<RobinShepheard> befree, have you tried using the memtest option on the install disk on the client??
<ogra> DanielC, we use the default ubuntu bits (kernel, libc and the like) that costs something
<DanielC> ogra: Ok.
<ogra> RobinShepheard, that would require a cdrom on the client :)
<RobinShepheard> ogra: true, it may have one if it as 64mb of ram though
<DanielC> The server must have a CDROM, so you can nick that.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: good point
<befree> no .. it doesn't have cdrom
<DanielC> Someone should make a memtest floppy.
<ogra> befree, did the installation finish properly without any errors ? 
<befree> do you think it could be a RAM problem?
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<cbx33> taken a look at gISOMount lately
<befree> yes.. the server is a good new pc (p4 3.2ghz 512 Mb ram)
<cbx33> yikes big crowd this evening
<ogra> sounds like ldm isnt installed or something else in the LTSP builder failed during install
<RobinShepheard> befree: it maybe, It could well be worth a test. I have run round in circles trying to find a problem and it was bad ram
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: well it is the meeting in 15 mins
<befree> is there any way to run with less then 48Mb of ram?
<DanielC> befree: Could be RAM. This week I had a lot of "strange" problems on a client and it turned out to be RAM.
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: did I see they made you a ebuntu member???
<RobinShepheard> doh edubuntu
<ogra> befree, do you use a lts.conf thats not compatible with ubuntu ltsp ? 
* cbx33 has had a great idea for a server at work...we were given it by the local education authority, even though we didn't want it, because we already have a content cache, but we're not allowed to open/reinstallit.....
<cbx33> however I noticed a scsi port on the back..."HELLO BRAND NEW LTSP SERVER" :D
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, I've been an edubuntu memebr for about a month now
<RobinShepheard> ahh my mistake, sorry
<befree> have you got some lts.conf examples? my lts.conf it's very simple.. i only specify resolution 
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, np
<RobinShepheard> befree: what resolution are you trying to run??
<ogra> befree, move it away and see if that solves it ... ubuntu uses autodetection 
<ogra> and not all options you know from ltsp.org are respected i.e. X_MODE_* isnt 
* HedgeMage peeks in
<befree> first i tried withou lts.conf.. and neither the X loaded
<RobinShepheard> befree: http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted if ogra's suggestion deosn't work
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: back just in time :-)
<cbx33> ogra's suggestions _always_ work :p
<cbx33> Hi HedgeMage 
<cbx33> howz the site going
<RobinShepheard> befree: the sample lts.conf is at the bottom of the page
<HedgeMage> cbx33: all done except for needing some more content... going to help mom with that tonight
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep :)
<cbx33> nice
<befree> RobinShepheard, i used the getting started and didn't work :(
<RobinShepheard> where did it fail??
<befree> RobinShepheard, blank screen.. 
<befree> no message in log files
<RobinShepheard> and could you ctrl+alt+f1 ??
<befree> no.. 
<RobinShepheard> ok
<ogra> befree, can you paste the lts.conf you use now to a pastebin (or if its not more than 5 lines, paste it here)
<befree> [mac-address] 
<befree> XSERVER = vesa
<befree> X_MODE_0 = 800x600
<befree> X_VERTREFRESH = 60
<befree> X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
<ogra> thats it ?
<befree> yes
<RobinShepheard> X_MODE_0 and X_COLOR_DEPTH are apparently not implemented yet
<ogra> hmm, nothing harmful in ther
<ogra> X_COLOR_DEPTH is implemented
<ogra> X_MODE_0 isnt needed, xorg computes the modeline from X_VERTREFRESH and the detected capabilities
<RobinShepheard> ok, in that case https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams needs updating
<ogra> RobinShepheard, nope, we need a new page for dapper (see at the top (i probably should make it bold))
<RobinShepheard> ok, my mistake
<RobinShepheard> sorry
<befree> so the only thing i should use is what?
<lucasvo> ogra: a table would be good:
<ogra> highvoltage has made a beautiful summary thats hidden in the edubuntu-docs package
<befree> X_mode_0
<befree> ?
<lucasvo> Option | Function | Breezy | Dapper
<ogra> befree, isnt even read
<lucasvo> ogra: why aren't the docs on the website?
<ogra> lucasvo, nope, i dont want breezy in there
<ogra> lucasvo, no idea
<DanielC> ogra: I think befree is asking which lines he should delete.
* highvoltage scrolls back to see what ogra is talkbing about
<HedgeMage> cookbook meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting now ***********8
<ogra> befree, yes, thats something you could delete, but its not harmful, you can even leave it there
<RobinShepheard> damn, I got to scoot, cookbook meeting is just about to start
<DanielC> Can I come to the cookbook meeting?
<ogra> highvoltage, the baeutiful second doc from edubuntu-docs
<highvoltage> DanielC: of course!
<DanielC> :)
* highvoltage checks what that is
<RobinShepheard> of course DanielC it is in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> DanielC, everybody can come to all our meetings, they are all public :)
<befree> ogra, ok.. so.. it seems a ram problem..
<ogra> highvoltage, a list of lts.conf parameters with descriptions
<lucasvo> highvoltage: we need to work on the website contents 
<DanielC> befree: Do you have another computer you can test?
<ogra> befree, why do you use vesa, whyt kind of graphics card is that ?
<ogra> *what even
<highvoltage> aaaah
<befree> yes.. an identic one.. same problem!
<highvoltage> that is on the website, i think
<befree> both with ram problem?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: but where :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: yep. tomorrow is a public holiday here. i intend to spend it on specs, website, and bugs :)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I'll write a todo list
<highvoltage> lucasvo: great. i love todo lists. especially when they get smaller.
<lucasvo> highvoltage: where can I login?
<lucasvo> (in drupal)
<highvoltage> /user
<befree> anybody knows the minimum thin client specs using a debian sarge e ltsp?
<ogra> befree, what does executing the following command on the server return: ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<highvoltage> befree: i don't know what the official mimimum is, but i would recommend at lest a PII/233 with 48MB RAM for debian ltsp
<ogra> sbartleylinux, i have to run for a moment, will be back in ~1h
<DanielC> befree: You have two clients and they both show the same problem? Ok, so it's probably not flaky RAM. It *might* be insufficient RAM. You could try grabbing RAM from one computer and putting it in the other to give it 64MB. Just to test if that's the problem.
<sbartleylinux> ogra: k.
<befree> ogra, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm doesn't exist.. 
<lucasvo> ogra: the edubuntu docs, where are they?
<befree> sorry.. it exists,,
<ogra> befree, but your edubuntu install did finish without errors ?
* ogra cant imagine ldm missing without having the ltsp builder fail on install
<ogra> oh, k
<befree> ogra, it exists.. what i have to look?
<DanielC> befree: run it and see what it says
<befree> which is the syntax?
<ogra> anyway, its 10pm here and i should start finding something for breakfast before my stomach starts digesting important parts of my body ... back in 1h
<befree> ogra, bom cafe da manha!
<befree> ogra, good breakfast.. 
<ogra> no, dont run it on the server, i wanted to know if our install is ok ...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> its rather a brinner (breakfast at dinner) :)
<befree> ok.. it seems ok..
<befree> it's a python program?
<befree> is there a log of what is going on?
<befree> ogra, here there is no brinner.. ther is drinker.. a beer before dinner..
<befree> it's time to test more and more.. 
<befree> before drinker time 
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<EmxBA> hi everyone
<pygi> cbx33, poke?
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<pygi> cbx33, why arent you at the meeting?
<cbx33> sorry dude had a bit of a hectic day
<cbx33> forgot all about it
<pygi> ah, oki, no worries
<pygi> I was also late :-/
<befree> see you! thx for the help
#edubuntu 2006-06-16
<lucasvo> that was a learning session :P
<lucasvo> 3h learning biology around midnight
<lucasvo> highvoltage: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/lucasvo < there's my todolist
<bddebian> Hello
* HedgeMage peeks in
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> how are you
<LaserJock> ack, tired, busy, stressed, and you? :-)
<cbx33> just woke up but at the mo, gunky throat, tired, 
<LaserJock> did you get my email
<cbx33> just checking
<cbx33> I see it
<cbx33> can you make me a project admin
<LaserJock> hmm
<cbx33> I'm a developer at the mo, and I can't change anything
<cbx33> did you see the new layout too?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think
<cbx33> you sound unsure, I think you'd probably know if you'd seen it
<cbx33> brand new gui....icons......big info window......lots of cool little features ???
* HedgeMage peeks back in
<HedgeMage> anyone know when pygi is due back?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> could be anytime HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> ok
<HedgeMage> btw, thanks again my mom is so ecstatic :)
<cbx33> good good
<cbx33> did you do some more content with her
<cbx33> speak of the devil :p
<cbx33> well speak of pygi anyway :p
<cbx33> HedgeMage, is looking for you:p
<pygi> cbx33, you and your devil :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, how may I help you? :)
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> hi hi
<HedgeMage> just wanted to hash through a few things for cookbook, but I need a few minutes I have phone calls to make
<pygi> you know it's 7:00 am here, and I gotta run in two minutes? :)
<pygi> 7:10 am that is :P
<LaserJock> cbx33: I think I did, my day has been terrible
<HedgeMage> pygi: didn't know that... :)  when will you be free?
<pygi> HedgeMage, not sure :P should be 12:00 UTC
<HedgeMage> ouch
<HedgeMage> that's the crack of dawn here
<HedgeMage> I'll catch you when I get up if I can, otherwise I'll give up and email you and we can do it the slow way :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, hehe :)
* HedgeMage isn't very good at mornings
<pygi> no worries HedgeMage ;)
<jsgotangco> cheers
<HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<jsgotangco> I HAVE MY HANDWRITTEN VISA
<HedgeMage> hrm?
<jsgotangco> long funny story at the embassy
<jsgotangco> basically their network hasn't been running since wednesday and couldn't issue anything electronically
<HedgeMage> ouch!
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: do you by chance have time for me to /msg you some dumb questions?
<jsgotangco> sure im in an outdoor hotspot though can't stay long
<HedgeMage> ok
<bimberi_> yay jsgotangco, c'est magnifique n'est pas! :)
<jsgotangco> oui!
<jsgotangco> au revoir!
<HedgeMage> ttyl jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> bonjour
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi HedgeMage
<highvoltage> what's up?
<HedgeMage> can't sleep so I'm putting up the other cookbook info I promised at the meeting
<HedgeMage> at least some of it
<highvoltage> ok, kewl!
<DanielC> Error on the getting started page. The first screen-shot in the "Configuring Thin Client Booting" section (second image) shows "lts.conf" instead of "dhcpd.conf"
<DanielC> Where can I get a list of keyboard layouts? I'm trying to figure out which one is "British English".
<DanielC> I'm editing ltsp.conf; is NETWORK_COMPRESSION good or bad?
<highvoltage> DanielC: it's generally good
<DanielC> thanks
<DanielC> What does it do?
<highvoltage> it will take slightly more cpu time on your server and thin clients, because it compresses the ssh data that gets sent to the thin clients
<highvoltage> but it improves your network performance.
<DanielC> And on thin clients the network is the limiting factor?
<highvoltage> network bandwidth is often a bigger problem than cpu capability, so in most cases, network compression should improve performance.
<highvoltage> yes, especially on graphical intensive apps.
<highvoltage> i haven't tested it extensively yet, or ina lab,
<highvoltage> but i've tested it with frozen bubble on a two thin clients last week, and it made a significant improvement
<DanielC> Ok, thanks.
<DanielC> I enabled it and left a not explaining what it does.
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> That's good then. These are primary kids and I expect them to play games like frozen bubble.
<highvoltage> frozen bubble is often kills the network on ltsp :)
<highvoltage> let us know how that works out ;)
<DanielC> np :)
<spacey> hi there
<spacey> made progress DanielC?
<DanielC> spacey: Lots.
<DanielC> Everything works now except sound.
<spacey> SOUND = Y ?
<spacey> :)
<DanielC> tried that :(
<DanielC> The sound comes off from the server's sound card instead of the client.
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> the sound should be outputted to esd
<spacey> esd is running?
<DanielC> Must be if sound is coming out of the server.
<DanielC> When a client plays an Ogg file the sound comes out of the server.
<spacey> then i might as well use alsa
<spacey> s/i/it
<spacey> what media player do you use?
<DanielC> I tried Totem. Should that matter?
<spacey> ok
<spacey> that should work
<spacey> well non-gstreamer apps need additional configuration
<spacey> if you type `ps aux | grep esd`
<spacey> does that show anything?
<DanielC> totem-gstreamer didn't work. I later replaced it by totem-xine and that's what I'm running now.
<HedgeMage> I give up, I'm incapable of writing anything coherent at this hour, especially while dealing with trolls in other chans.
<spacey> DanielC: hehe
<spacey> so then you might need to specify it
<DanielC> spacye: ps aux | grep esd == "/usr/bin/esd - terminate -nobeeps -as 1 -spawnfd 18"
<spacey> but you should hear gnome sounds anyway
<DanielC> But you see, if that was the problem then the sounds would not be coming out of the server.
<DanielC> If the problem was the app, then there would be no sound at all anywhere.
<DanielC> Right?
<DanielC> Or am I confused?
<spacey> partly yes
<spacey> if you type `gstreamer-properties`
<spacey> is esound selected?
<DanielC> one sec...
<DanielC> output == autodetect
<DanielC> Options include ALSA, ESD, OSS.
<spacey> http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<DanielC> *click*
<spacey> try SOUND = true
<DanielC> I did.
<DanielC> I'm happy to try again.
<spacey> well at least you should keep it in :)
<DanielC> Should I select "esd" instead of "autodetect"?
<spacey> i never had to select it
<DanielC> ok
<spacey> but it does need to output to esd
<spacey> just try to restart the client first after you set SOUND = true in lts.conf
* DanielC restarts the client
<DanielC> Hmmm... I can hear the Gnome sounds now...
<DanielC> This is my lts.conf: http://pastebin.com/712541
<spacey> if you hear gnome sounds
<DanielC> totem doesn't work, so it looks like it is the application.
<spacey> from the client, it should work
<spacey> well totem-gstreamer would work
<DanielC> Ok, so I'll add that, and remove totem-xine.
<spacey> i don't like totem at all, but it should work
<DanielC> Sound on Firefox doesn't work either.
<DanielC> Totem is fine, I have no problems with it.
<spacey> thats because the flash plugin sucks
<DanielC> :(
<spacey> afaik the flash plugin only wants to output to OSS
<DanielC> The same flash video works on my desktop with sound.
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Well that sucks.
<spacey> indeed
<DanielC> totem works!
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<spacey> madness!
<cbx33> mornin all
<spacey> :)
<spacey> morning
<DanielC> So... there's probably no way to get sound working with Firefox+Flash?
<cbx33> I have it working?
<cbx33> or is this some special case
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: did you get my mai?
<RobinShepheard> hiya everybody
<cbx33> hey RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: No can't say I did
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: thanks for the meeting notes, good job :)
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: Where they all right, not too long winded??
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: they were very good :)
<DanielC> spacey: There's probably no way to get sound to work with Firefox+Flash?
<RobinShepheard> I wasn't sure, first time I have had to take minutes
<cbx33> DanielC: in what circumstances
<DanielC> cbx33: Thin client. spacey says that sound only works if you use esd and that the flash plugin will only use oss.
<DanielC> At least, that's my interpretation of the situation.
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> he could very well be right then
* Amaranth smashes things
<Amaranth> the -25 kernel broke my sound
<DanielC> go back to the old kernel.
<Amaranth> well, yeah
<Amaranth> but first i'm going to see what was changed
<Amaranth> DanielC: esddsp firefox
<Amaranth> it demolishes performance when you run vmware like that but it shouldn't hurt firefox
<DanielC> Does anyone know what "RCFILE_02 = floppyd" does in lts.conf?
<ogra> DanielC, it starts the floppyd (which we dont ship)
<ogra> its an ltsp.org setting
<DanielC> ogra: What is floppyd?
<DanielC> Sounds like floppy drive daemon.
<DanielC> Never heard of such thing though.
<ogra> i think a local device daemon, but i'm not really awake yet
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> ogra: Where are you located? What time is it for you?
<ogra> we'll address local devices in an autodetected manner :)
<ogra> i'm in germany, but i was up until 5
<DanielC> ah
<ogra> so i'm rather on a westamerican TZ ;)
<DanielC> Looks like you get flexible work hours though :)
<ogra> well, since my workplace is this channel :)
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> Didn't think of it like that.
<RobinShepheard> help, I am a bit confused, I am so used to using the mail program 'mail' in my scripts I didn't think about it. It doesn't seem to be installed by default, where is it???
<RobinShepheard> I can't seem to find a package just called mail. Does anyone know which package it is part of or if there is a similar package??
<RobinShepheard> I suppose I could get around it by re-doing all my scripts in perl and using net::smtp but I would rather avoid that if i can
<DanielC> How about sendmail?
<DanielC> I haven't used it much, but I once wrote a shell script that used sendmail.
<ogra> heh, sendmail is a bit oversized for the task :)
<ogra> install postfix
<DanielC> Package 'mailx' provides the command /usr/bin/mail
<DanielC> Description says "A simple mail user agent".
<DanielC> Maybe that's the one you want?
<ogra> there was a simple conclusion that a mailserver isnt really needed on desktop systems, so we dont ship any mailserver by default since breezy
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: package 'mailx'
<ogra> mailx is an MUA ... you will still need an MTA :)
<DanielC> Ok, mailx+postfix
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/bazaar/LtspManager$ apt-cache show mailx|grep Depends
<ogra> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), liblockfile1 (>= 1.0), postfix | mail-transport-agent, base-files (>= 2.2.0)
<ogra> ;)
* DanielC just noticed that
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: cheers
<RobinShepheard> ogra: No problem, cheers for the grep statement
<cbx33> man I'm getting so much done today
<cbx33> so ogra think gisomount could be useful even to you :p
<cbx33> I've expanded the info section it can now pull out ALL iso volumne information :D
<cbx33> are there any features you think it could do with?
<ogra> i susally dont check my isos with md5sum and if i mount an iso i have to do other stuff on the commandline with it, but its usweful to non developers, i'm pretty sure :)
<cbx33> ogra: well I'm trying to make it useful to developers too, at least that's what I'd like
<cbx33> what other options do you need to mount it with?
<cbx33> or are you saying you noramlly 
<cbx33> just mount it command line and then maipulate on the command line?
<kbrooks> cbx33: link to gisomount ?
<ogra> for me as developer an rsync button would be cool that pops up a progress dialog showing the rsync progress ... but thats very much limited to devs and iso testers
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage/+branch/gisomount/devel
<kbrooks> k
<kbrooks> ty
<cbx33> ogra: I was actually going to do something like that
* kbrooks bzr branches :P
<cbx33> I was going to make a front end for your rsyncer script
<ogra> ah, cool :)
<cbx33> useful?
<cbx33> +l
<cbx33> -l
<cbx33> + brain
<cbx33> I'm not all here...been doing too much non-edubuntu work
<cbx33> it's not good
<cbx33> ogra: do you have any more updates to rsyncer yet?
<cbx33> or is it fairly static at the moment?
<cbx33> kbrooks: thanks for the python help yesterday
<kbrooks> cbx33: np
<cbx33> I'm still a n00b at it 
<kbrooks> cbx33: nice GUI
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> it's changed a lot since the first conception
<cbx33> I did that yesterday
<cbx33> it used to look like this
<kbrooks> cbx33: redundant tabs
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/gisomount.png
<ogra> cbx33, it might evolve, but i wont drop existing features
<kbrooks> reduce to 1
<ogra> i cant say much yet because i will not use it for some months now :)
<cbx33> kbrooks: it's like that because.....someone told me to setup everything in glade
<kbrooks> cbx33: don't listen to them all the time
<cbx33> and not to faf around with using python to create massive amounts of g...t.......I've just had a great idea
<cbx33> I'll just hide them until they need to be used
<cbx33> of course !!!
<cbx33> thanks kbrooks 
<kbrooks> g what?:P
<cbx33> gtk
<kbrooks> cbx33: dialogs are intrusive :P
<DanielC> Is anyone here familiar with gdmXnest? I ssh'd to the client tunnelling X (ssh -X) and ran gdmXnest. I got a new window with the nested X server, but no gdm.
<DanielC> Don't know what to do...
<ogra> heh
<cbx33> kbrooks: could you submit a bug for that on LP
<kbrooks> cbx33: your code sucks :P too much all over the place
<ogra> gdm isnt installed on the client 
<cbx33> I'll fix that tonight
<cbx33> kbrooks: I know
<ogra> so you cant execute that ...
<cbx33> I'd like some suggestions
<DanielC> ogra: I ssh'd to the server.
<DanielC> ogra: I mis-wrote.
<ogra> oh, ok
<kbrooks> cbx33: can i suggest them here?
<cbx33> sure or in pm?
<cbx33> I have to pop out for lunch
<ogra> but you are already sshed to the server at this point 
<cbx33> but I'll be back
<cbx33> alternatively email would be cool too
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<kbrooks> cbx33: look at the info part
<kbrooks> of the list
<DanielC> ogra: I just wanted to see if it was possible to run a a remote GUI connection to the server.
<kbrooks> cbx33: use that ;)
<cbx33> kbrooks: I'm confused?
<DanielC> ogra: (from a regular Linux computer, you now, nested).
<kbrooks> cbx33: in the GUI, there is a "key | info"
* DanielC can't type correctly today
<kbrooks> ah, nm, cbx33 
<ogra> DanielC, then you should run it remote ;) if you shh -X from a logged in client you ssh to localhost ;)
<ogra> *ssh
<kbrooks> im stupid
<ogra> DanielC, ah, k
<cbx33> right I have to dash...but I'll be back...and will be very open to suggestions
<kbrooks> cbx33: ok
<ogra> DanielC, you want to run a complete session ?
<DanielC> ogra: Yes. It's not important, just nice to have.
<ogra> DanielC, you need a started Xserver on the client (with an xterm or something) and run: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
<DanielC> Ok, I'll try that.
<ogra> i never tried to use ldm for such stuff (i bet some environment variables will be missing the ltsp-client scripts set up) but theoretically you should be able to use it like with a thin client
<DanielC> X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
<ogra> oh, right, make sure you have already logged in once with that user via ssh
<kbrooks> DanielC: ogra?
<kbrooks> does pmount support loop mounting?
<ogra> so the hostkey of the server is stored for the user
<DanielC> ogra: I'm not sure what you mean. I already logged in from a different terminal...  Maybe I'm confused.
<ogra> kbrooks, i dont think so, pitti woould know (he wrote p(itti)mount)
<kbrooks> is mount -t loop valid?
<ogra> DanielC, oh, well, that might be your problem then, try another user thats not running an X session already (and has no xauth file lying around)
<ogra> kbrooks, mount -o loop is valig and will autoload the loop module 
<ogra> *valid
<ogra> loop is not a filesystem ;)
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, that half-worked. Gnome crashed, but I think I'll stop here. This isn't important enough to spend much time on.
<DanielC> What the heck...
<DanielC> I closed the ssh connection and gaim crashed.
<kbrooks> ogra: typo
<kbrooks> is pmount -t loop valid?
<DanielC> I'm having problems with gaim. The Gnome gaim applet is gone and now when I close the Buddy List all of gaim quits.
<ogra> lopp is still no filesystem :)
<ogra> *loop
<ogra> kbrooks, i dont think pmount supports the -o switch
<EmxBA> hi 
<EmxBA> hi ogra
<DanielC> What's with today's update? It's huge.
<DanielC> About 50 packages being updated.
<EmxBA> at me only 9
<EmxBA> i updated all of them yesterday
<EmxBA> and today again, just only 9
<EmxBA> but on Ubuntu :)
<DanielC> Mine says that the linux kernel was kept back. Why is it kept back? Should I upgrade it?
<EmxBA> it is kept back at me too.
<ogra> wait until all pieces are ready
<DanielC> ogra: What do you mean?
<ogra> wait until all packages are there so nothing is kept back anymore
<ogra> there is something missing if a package is kept back
<EmxBA> maybe you don't have all the packages required for kernel update
<DanielC> I see. So "kept back" means that there's an update but I should wait for something else before getting it.
<ogra> yeah
<EmxBA> right
<ogra> kept back usually means a depending package isnt there yet
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> whats being kept back ? 
<DanielC> ogra: Linux kernel
<ogra> which package eaxctly ? 
<DanielC> ogra: linux-image-386 linux-restricted-modules-386
<EmxBA> linux image 
<ogra> yeah they are both metapackages
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/base/linux-image-386
<ogra> 22k big :)
<EmxBA> is nerolinux available for ubuntu
<kbrooks> see you later
<EmxBA> hi pygi
<DanielC> I'll restart gnome to see if that makes Gaim work again.
<DanielC> I hate restarting programs. It feels like Windows.
<DanielC> That wasn't so bad.
<DanielC> I only restarted the gnome panel.
<EmxBA> DanielC: :)
<EmxBA> feels like windows, really
<DanielC> Better than rebooting the entire OS though.
<EmxBA> well, yes
<DanielC> I didn't even have to close applications besides gaim.
<DanielC> ogra: Sound is now working on thin clients except for Firefox (ie. Flash).
<DanielC> ogra: I can play Ogg files with totem-gstreamer but a Flash movie that works on my desktop doesn't work on the thin client.
<DanielC> ogra: Any ideas?
<EmxBA> i have the same problem
<cbx33> ogra: kbrooks : pmount doesn't support the -o switch
<ogra> did you try calling firefox with esddsp in front ?
<DanielC> ogra: what? How do I do that?
<ogra> the problem with flash is that it needs a LD_PRELOAD avriable ste, but that can crash firefox and is a security hole so the LD_PRELOAD in th efirefox startup wrapper was disabled by our security team
<ogra> just run: esddsp firefox
<ogra> and check if it works then
* DanielC tries that
<ogra> you might probably have to set options for esddsp, not sure
<DanielC> Hmm... I can't login to the thin clients again.
<DanielC> I wonder if my experimentation with X broke something. I can't see how it would though.
* DanielC restarts the server to be sure
<DanielC> Damm it. The client won't login anymore.
<DanielC> The application 'x-session-manager' lost its connection to the display localhost:10.0;
<DanielC> most likely the X server was shut down or you killed/destroyed
<DanielC> the application.
<DanielC> Does anyone know what this means?
<DanielC> ogra: Ever seen that before?  "x-session-manager lot its connection to the display localhost:10.0; most likely the X server was shut down"
<DanielC> ogra: ldm.conf says "X11 connection rejected becaue of wrong authentication"
<DanielC> I've tried rebooting the server, running ltsl-update-kernels, ltsp-update-sshkeys and rebooting the client. But no change.
<DanielC> Here is ~/.xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/712839
<DanielC> Moving lts.conf away doesn't change anything.
<DanielC> Ok, I can login with a *different* *account*
<DanielC> So the problem is with the user account itself.
<DanielC> I moved ~/.Xauthority* away and now I can log in. But Gnome is messed up...
<ogra> in which way ?
<ogra> (sorry was afk)
<DanielC> ogra: The icons are wrong, and it gives me errors that some apps (applets I think) crashed.
<DanielC> it's definitely usable, just ugly.
<DanielC> And it's only with this one account.
<DanielC> I'm moving every config file into another directory.
<ogra> looks like gnome-settings-daemon didnt like your mucking around with xauth 
<ogra> check the permissions of the .gconf* and .gnome* dirs
<DanielC> Yes, it's gnome-settings-daemon
<DanielC> ogra: what should those permissions be? 755/644?
<ogra> 700
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> and they should be owned by the user indeed
<DanielC> They look alright.
<ogra> is an old gnome-settings-daemon still running ?
<DanielC> How can I test for that? I doubt it because I rebooted the server.
<DanielC> "ps aux|grep settings" shows only one.
<ogra> ok, thats not it then
<DanielC> When Gnome starts it says "the daemon restarted too many times; I'll try to restart it next time you log in"
<DanielC> Logging in again doesn't change the error.
<ogra> try moving the .gconf* and .gnome* dirs away
<DanielC> I did. It still complains.
<DanielC> I logged out and logged back in and I got *fewer* errors the second time.
<DanielC> All the "such and such crashed" errors are gone. But still complains about the settings daemon.
<ogra> there must be something left in the /tmp dir i guess thats operating with the wrong xauth file form your ssh -X try
<DanielC> I see /tmp/gconfd-admin
<slashdevnull> Hello and good morning (whatever time it is in your time zone)
<cbx33> ping kbrooks 
<DanielC> ogra: Is it safe to log everything out and run 'rm -r /tmp/*' ?
<ogra> should be, yes ... do it as a user, so you cant kill important stuff
<DanielC> ogra: That fixed it. Thanks!
<ogra> Accepted ltsp-manager 0.0.1-1 (source)
<ogra> yippie !
<cbx33> ogra: w00t
<bddebian> Hello
<slashdevnull> ogra: Just wanted to say thinaks yet again, and let you know of an issue I'm running into with ltsp
<cbx33> ogra: think you got a minute at somepoint soon to have a quick ganders at my code?
<DanielC> ogra: Is that the one you showed us the other day? Yay!
<ogra> yeps, thats the initial upload of the management gui
<ogra> now it just needs the meissing features :)
<cbx33> nice one ogra :D
<slashdevnull> Actually, I need to do a little more testing before laying out more ltsp troubles. 
* cbx33 is hoping that gisomount can go into universe soon
<slashdevnull> Oooh, ltsp-manager! Spiff!
<cbx33> after it's been optimised
<ogra> cbx33, Laser_away and me will approve it if the packaging is ok, so dont worry
<cbx33> ogra: thanks, i just need someone to give me some advice on the code
<cbx33> after kbrooks said it was crap
<ogra> you can change it the next 4 months still ... 
<ogra> uploading it will get you users that file bugs ...
<ogra> so focus on getting it out, you can do changes later
<cbx33> ogra: even if it's incomplete
<cbx33> and buggy?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> if that's the case,
<ogra> ltsp-manager is far from being complete 
<cbx33> I would really relaly appreciate you glancing over it
<cbx33> and if you say it's cool I'll ask Laser_away and you to put it in
<ogra> its just important to fix it until release 
<cbx33> I know Laser_away is really really busy right now
<slashdevnull> DanielC, what do I have to do to get sound working in ltsp?
<ogra> getting bugs and feedback is very important to get it right
<cbx33> he's been wanting to add code to gisomount but just hasn't had the time
<slashdevnull> The wiki mentions modifying source code...?
<cbx33> I know
<ogra> slashdevnull, ??
<highvoltage> hey everyone
<ogra> can you point me to that wikipage please so i can correct it ? 
<cbx33> hey MNr highvoltage 
<highvoltage> ogra: when are you leaving for Paris, on Sunday?
<ogra> slashdevnull, http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<highvoltage> cbx33: hey!
<slashdevnull> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientAudioSupport mentions code to be added to ldm
<slashdevnull> Ah, nm. Wrong wiki. :P
<cbx33> howz it going
<ogra> highvoltage, saturday evening/night ... i dont like driving long distance during the day
<ogra> slashdevnull, that was the spec for the implementation
<ogra> slashdevnull, its *not* a howto
<DanielC> ogra: Now sound doesn't work on totem-gstreamer. It just works logging into gnome (you know, the login sounds).
<ogra> did you play with your multimedia settings ? (dont do that)
<cbx33> heheheh
<DanielC> ogra: Not that I know of.
<highvoltage> lol
<slashdevnull> ok, ogra. Thanks
<DanielC> At least, not since last time it worked.
<ogra> the gstreamer properties should use the autodetection sink (default)... else you wont have ltsp sound 
<DanielC> Ok.
<DanielC> I don't think I've touched totem or gstreamer settings beyond moving ~/.gconf* and ~/.gnome* to another directory.
<slashdevnull> So, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams is out of date? It mentions that SOUND is not yet implemented.
<ogra> the autosink iterates over all possible output methods and picks the best one *unless* it sees that you are logged in via ltsp, then it points directly to the forwarded esd output
<ogra> slashdevnull, see the line at the top please
<ogra> its still recent for what it was written for
* ogra goes and makes it bold 
<cbx33> ogra: would you want me to use the script as it is?
<cbx33> the rsync one that is?
<cbx33> then it would help interoperability
<ogra> feel free to make improvements, patches accepted ;)
<cbx33> ogra: I oculd never patch you :p
<ogra> sure you could ;)
<DanielC> I ran totem with the --debug flag and the only message is "failed to initialize lirc".
<DanielC> I don't know what lirc is.
<cbx33> ogra: I'm gonna make some dummy isos
<cbx33> so I can try it easy
<cbx33> and quickly
<cbx33> ogra
<cbx33> your rsync script
<cbx33> the actual rsync bit does, rsync -az --progress rsy....iso iso iso
<cbx33> why three parameters
<ogra> one would suffice ...
<cbx33> so why the three?
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> just outta interest
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> :)
<ogra> *shrug*
<cbx33> ok :p i get it
<cbx33> IDWIWIJD
<cbx33> I don;t know why it works, it just does !
<rodarvus> hi guys
<kholerabbi> Hello :)
<DanielC> Ok, let's go for a different problem. When I login as a different user I get no sound at all (not even the login sound). When I start totem I get the error "could not connect to sound daemon".
<DanielC> This is a user I added early, before doing most of the configuration. But why would one user get sound and the other not?
<ogra> morning rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi there, ogra
<rodarvus> I've seen ltsp-manager was already uploaded to edgy ;)
<rodarvus> great news
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'm just creating a branch for it in LP
<cbx33> ogra: how soon do you think gisomount could be in?
<DanielC> spacey: Hi. Do you have any idea why sound would work for one user but not another? (I'm speaking of the Gnome login sound and a brand new user).
<ogra> cbx33, lets wait for Laser_away 
<cbx33> oh yeh sure
<rodarvus> DanielC, different users might have different sound servers configured - that might be the reason
<cbx33> i was speaking hypothetically
<DanielC> rodarvus: Ok. How do you configure a sound server for a user?
<ogra> rodarvus, nope ... by default ltsp should fall back to esd for all users ...
<ogra> the gstreamer autosink cares for that ...
<rodarvus> oh
<ogra> (which is the default setting for all new users)
<DanielC> :(
<DanielC> ogra: Could sabayon get in the way of that?
<ogra> look with the env command if ESPEAKER is set for that user
<ogra> (and where it points to)
<ogra> usually that should be clientIP:port
<ogra> where port is 16001
<DanielC> It is.
<cbx33> DanielC: i hope you're documenting all this :p
<cbx33> would be good others wanting to do the same
<ogra> hmm, is the client the same hardware as the former ? 
<DanielC> 192.168.17.247:16001
<ogra> (might be a driver prob)
<DanielC> cbx33: I've been documenting all the solutions I've found. When I solve sound I'll document that too.
<cbx33> nice DanielC 
<DanielC> ogra: But why would a driver problem affect different users differently.
<ogra> not different user, different clients
<ogra> *users
<DanielC> This is the same physical client.
<ogra> ok
<DanielC> When I tried an old user (that I configured early one) totem gave the error "could not connect to sound daemon". When I created a brand new user, totem didn't give that error, but still doesn't play sounds.
<ogra> is there a .esd-{$UID} directory in /tmp with that users UID ?
<DanielC> I see .esd-100 and .esd-101
<ogra> 100 ???
<DanielC> oops
<ogra> sure youre not missing a 0 ?
<DanielC> 1000 and 1001
<ogra> good :)
<DanielC> :)
<ogra> and is one of the users logged in locally on the server ? 
<DanielC> I just checked /etc/passwd and those are the user IDs I'd expect.
<DanielC> Yes.
<DanielC> One is logged in locally on the server (1000) and the other on the thin client (1001).
<DanielC> 1001 is the one that doesn't work. If I log 1000 into the client I hear the Gnome login sounds.
<ogra> hmm, that might cause it ... could you try with only client connections ? might be that a locally running esd confuses it ...
<cbx33> ogra: do you know how to setup an rsync server?
<DanielC> ok, I'll loge out from the server.
<ogra> cbx33, i think its just installing the server and enabling it in /etc/default
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> i suppose one still needs to create the rsyncd.conf file
<ogra> you'll likely have to set the served path anywhere, but dont ask me where :)
<DanielC> ogra: I logged everyone out. I saw that the /tmp/.esd* directories vanished. I then logged in user 1001. Saw that /tmp/.esd-1001 appeared. But no sound came off.
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> any errors in the logs ? 
<ogra> .xsession-errors might have something
* DanielC checks
<DanielC> ** (gnome-session:7213): WARNING **: Esound failed to start.
<ogra> aha
<ogra> you are sure you dont have fiddled with any settings in gstreamer-properties ? 
<DanielC> ogra: Earlier I replaced totem-gstreamer by totem-xine and then put totem-gstreamer back in.
<DanielC> ogra: I can't think of anything else.
<DanielC> If I did, it was not knowingly. I wish there was a way to test this better.
<ogra> i mean the multimedia settings app (gstreamer-properties) did you change anything ther ? 
<ogra> e+
<DanielC> The GUI one? No, I haven't touched it.
<DanielC> Of course, when I was trying to fix the login problem I moved a lot of ~/.* files away. But that would only affect the user account 1000 (the one that does have sound).
<ogra> it shouldnt matter 
<DanielC> indeed
<ogra> please run gstreamer-properties and check that the autosink is selected for both users
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, I have gstreamer-properties in front of me and under output I see "Pipeline: autoaudiosink". I click "Test" next to it and hear nothing. Is that what you meant?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> can you check that for both users please ? 
<ogra> if one is set to esd that might be the problem
<DanielC> ogra: If I change output to ESD and test it says "could not connect to ESD"
* DanielC puts it back to auto-detect and logs out to try the other user
<DanielC> ogra: The other user looks the same except that the test works.
<ogra> thats weird 
<DanielC> (output: autodetect; pipeline: autosink)
<cbx33> bbl ghuys
<cbx33> ogra: expect a beta of grsyncer soon :p
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> try to find some better names ... putting a g in front of everything feels like KDE :)
<DanielC> :)
<cbx33> OgraSync :p
<cbx33> excellent that feels much better :p
<slashdevnull> heh
<cbx33> bbl guys
<ogra> DanielC, damned, i have an idea ... (which would be a bit odd if it worked) can you reboot the client, log in with the user who had no sound and see if it works then ? 
<DanielC> ogra: gstreamer-properties says in STDERR: "Skipping unavailable plugin 'esdmon'" (among others)
<DanielC> ogra: I'll try anything.
<DanielC> What do I do?
<ogra> i suspect there is an esd process left running on the client that is still owned by the first user ... 
* DanielC logs out
<ogra> just reboot the client and log in with the 1001 user
<DanielC> ok...
<ogra> if thats the case i have a fix from debian for it, might be a dapper-updates candidate ...
<DanielC> Rebooting...
<ogra> btw, do you have more than one client around there ? 
<slashdevnull> I must be missing something somewhere. Is there anything more that I should need to do than specify sound=true in lts.conf? I'm assuming that the answer is a resounding 'yes'.
<slashdevnull> I must not be looking at the right docs. Again. :P
<ogra> the variable needs to be uppercase (as all lts.conf variables)
<slashdevnull> Sound tests in my environment, from the thin client, play on the server's speakers.
<ogra> SOUND=True will work
<ogra> then the variable wasnt read on client boot
<slashdevnull> I have SOUND=True
<ogra> and you rebooted the client ? 
<slashdevnull> Yes. I can try again.
<slashdevnull> Does inital spacing (indenting) matter?
<slashdevnull> in lts.conf?
<ogra> (lts.conf is only read once on boot, changes dont take effect if you dont reboot the client)
<DanielC> ogra: it works
<DanielC> ogra: It looks like whoever logs in first grabs the sound daemon.
<ogra> DanielC, ok, do you have a second client available ? 
<DanielC> ogra: No, sadly no. Just one client.
<ogra> so you can test the other user simultanely on a second client
<ogra> sad ...
<DanielC> I have another computer that could be turned into a client I think.
<ogra> would be good to confirm
<DanielC> I'm sure I can find a monitor, cables, etc to setup another client if need be.
<slashdevnull> "Sound requested bu /dev/dsp is missing".  Looks like that could be it.
<DanielC> ogra: Ok. This will take several minutes. I'll be back.
<ogra> theoretically if you swap the users on the clients sound must come out of the wrong client if my suspicion is correct
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, I'll look for that.
<ogra> slashdevnull, what kind of client is that =
<ogra> ?
<ogra> looks a bit like the soundcard isnt supported
<slashdevnull> It's a Dell Dimension 5150.
<ogra> with onboard sound i suspect 
<slashdevnull> lemme check the soundcard...
<ogra> worst casde its ISA ... that will get very very tricky ...
<ogra> *case
<salleschool> Hello again
<slashdevnull> Yeah, it's an onboard sound card
<ogra> any idea if its PCI or ISA ?
<slashdevnull> getting specifics now...
<salleschool> I'm still hitting my head againts the screen
<ogra> (HW manufacurer like to use ISA because its way cheaper but you have to set it with IRQ and the like ... its no fun)
<salleschool> Don't worry It's an old screen
<salleschool> let's see
<ogra> many laptops have ISA soundcards because of that
<salleschool> I pushed out edubuntu :(
<salleschool> I have installed ubuntu :)
<ogra> salleschool, ??
<salleschool> and then i have installed ltsp4.2
<salleschool> but now atftpd is not working
* ogra points salleschool to #ltsp for support, we have nothing to do with ltsp 4.2 here
<slashdevnull> ogra: pci. inetl 82801g
<slashdevnull> Er, intel
<ogra> but aftp is unmaintained in ubuntu anyway (at least i havent seen anybody touching it for ages and its in universe (unsupported))
<salleschool> so I must install another tftpd, which one?
<ogra> salleschool, please ask in #ltsp i dont support ltsp 4.2
<ogra> its not in ubuntu at all
<salleschool> ok, sorry
<ogra> slashdevnull, should be covered by snd-intel8x0
<salleschool> I will ask there
<slashdevnull> ogra: If I was to build out an ltsp environment for a school using Edubuntu or Ubuntu 6.06, are there any good hardware do/don't guides out there? So I don't buy a bunch of thins with the wrong video/sound hardware, etc.?
<ogra> well, usually every PCI card should work 
<ogra> ISA can made working, but as i said its very tricky to set up and requires lots of manual work
<slashdevnull> ok. I'm not concerned about making it work in the test environment I'm running right now.
<DanielC> ogra: I can't test :(  The other computer's power supply is dead.
<slashdevnull> ogra, you're a paid *ubuntu employee, right? I hope you are, for all of the questions I'm throwing at you. ;)
<ogra> slashdevnull, yes, i am :)
<slashdevnull> good on you. :)
<DanielC> ogra: The only computer I have left is one whose sound hardware doesn't work with Linux anyways. However, I can say that when I booted it and logged in as the original user I did not hear sound coming from the first client.
<rodarvus> brb
<ogra> DanielC, could you file a bug like: "esd isnt killed on logout on the client and runs with wrong permissions from new users logging in" ?
<ogra> against ltsp and assigned to me ?
<DanielC> That's launchpad.ubuntu.com?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<ogra> launchpat.net, sorry
<DanielC> Looks like it's the same thing.
<ogra> a bug will make it official enough for me to work on it for dapper-updates i hope
<DanielC> Ok.
<ogra> anyway, it will only happen if users log out and other users log in ... for now the workaround would be to reboot the client before another user logs in
<ogra> its ugly, but should help
<DanielC> ogra: Ok. That would work alright for this setup.
<DanielC> We'll have one user per PC.
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> that shouldnt produce probs then, but thanks for tracking that bug :)
<DanielC> We /were/ planning to have everyone share the same account, but decided that this just wouldn't work.
<DanielC> So we went for the next simplest thing. One account per PC.
<DanielC> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/49997
<DanielC> ogra: I didn't see an option to assign the bug to anyone.
<ogra> i'll grab it, thanks a bunch
<DanielC> thank you :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<ogra> DanielC, well, you cant assign bugs if the ubuntu component is selected :)
<ogra> selecting ltsp as the package enables assignments :)
<DanielC> ogra: Ok :)  I'm not familiar with Ubuntu's version of bugzilla yet.
<ogra> hey jsgotangco 
<ogra> lol
<ogra> LOL
<jsgotangco> hey ogra
* jsgotangco is packed
<DanielC> ogra: In any event... if I login to another PC with a different user account, should I expect sound to work?
<ogra> hey we are pushing a revolutionary new bugtracker, dont call it "bugzilla" if any launchpad people are around *g*
<DanielC> he he
<ogra> DanielC, yes
<jsgotangco> ogra: i  bought something for you
<jsgotangco> heh
<DanielC> That would be good enough for my use case. Thanks.
<ogra> for me ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, a throuserbag ashtray ? 
<jsgotangco> oh crap
<jsgotangco> i should have bought you one
<slashdevnull> Groovy. SOunds works great on my other system (add-on sound card).
<ogra> lol
* ogra adjusts the ray of the ubuntu mind reading satellite to something else now 
<ogra> slashdevnull, hmm, thats odd ... wait until crimsun is up, he's the alsa guy and might want to know abut it
<slashdevnull> kayo. Thanks
<slashdevnull> Now that I have a functining environment, maybe I should re-write launchpad in Rails. ;)
* slashdevnull laughs maniacally, then ducks
<ogra> rodarvus, do you know if we get a budget now that we are a "real department" inside the company ? 
<ogra> slashdevnull, ask #launchpad if they like that *g*
<rodarvus> ogra, hopefully, yes (as soon as RichardW arrives)
<slashdevnull> I'd rather not, if it's all the same. launchpad is cool.
<jsgotangco> budget?
<ogra> rodarvus, i think we should have another edubuntu summit as well (but thats up to richard i guess)
<rodarvus> yeah, I agree
<ogra> jsgotangco, we're the educational DEPARTMENT inside of canonical now :) 
<ogra> not just "ogra who builds that edu distro" anymore ;)
<gagredo> hi
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, ogra and I will report to the Education Program/Project (?) Manager, starting next month
* jsgotangco is clueluess atm
<ogra> jsgotangco, you werent at the last meeting, right ? 
<rodarvus> I'll be right back
<gagredo> I'm having a problem with edubuntu installation
<jsgotangco> yes i was busy fighting with bureaucracy
<ogra> gagredo, did you follow the gettingstarted guide (see the channel topic)
* jsgotangco only got to breathe properly today
<gagredo> when LTSP installation the computer stops
<jsgotangco> well ive been hearing about a program manager thing but didnt know its already in place
<gagredo> and can't continue
<gagredo> I think was a problem of the iso image but i'm already make the MD5SUM and it was correct
<gagredo> then I burn at 8x but the problem persist
<th1a> Wait, what?  Is there an educational program manager?
<gagredo> any suggestions or help?
<ogra> gagredo, "the computer stops"
<ogra> can you define that a bit more precise ? 
<ogra> th1a, yep
<jsgotangco> th1a: fairly new but was planned before
<gagredo> ogra thanks
<jsgotangco> ogra: is this Mr JaneW?
<ogra> LOL
<ogra> yes, that is Mr. JaneW 
<gagredo> I want to say that the installations doesn't continue
<jsgotangco> ahh so it happened
<ogra> gagredo, how are the symptoms of that ? 
<th1a> I heard it was coming from Helen, but I was expecting a posting or something.
<th1a> Who is it?
<jsgotangco> helen?
<ogra> (screenn goes rad and you have an error, the system just locks up, screen switches off etc)
<th1a> Helen King from TSF.
<ogra> who is helen ? 
<ogra> aha
<jsgotangco> ahh
<ogra> nope its not TSF realted
<ogra> *related
<th1a> She's my main contact with the rest of the Shuttleworth universe.
<ogra> and i think mark tries to keep both as distinct as possible
<th1a> Yeah, I knew it was a Canonical thing.
<ogra> to not be blamed for mixing stuff up between the companies
<th1a> So is there any info about this anywhere?
<highvoltage> th1a: about?
<ogra> there are meeting records anywhere 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey!
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco 
<th1a> This hiring?  Who this person is?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you get your papers sorted out?
<highvoltage> th1a: Richard Weideman? he used to work for HP.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes!!! just in time :)
<jsgotangco> hehe me too
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: they made it extra special by making it HANDWRITTEN
<jsgotangco> muhahaha
<th1a> highvoltage: Thanks.
<gagredo> ogra,  the system just locks up
<jsgotangco> hmm back to back huge updates
<ogra> jsgotangco, keep it, frame it :)
* jsgotangco should get smokes before leaving
<ogra> gagredo, how does that happen, does the screen go black and everything stops ? 
<DanielC> Edubuntu doesn't come with Apache, right?
<gagredo> ogra, someone says me that could probably solve if I use the noapic advanced option, what do yo thing?
<slashdevnull> gotta roll. thanks for all the help, ogra. good luck, DanielC.
<ogra> DanielC, nope but you can easily install it
<ogra> gagredo, try it 
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, thanks.
<ogra> gagredo, it really matters whats going wrong
<EmxBA> hi everyone
<EmxBA> i would like you to help me 
<highvoltage> EmxBA: i think you need to be more specific :)
<DanielC> he he
<EmxBA> i cannot set up aiglx, thatis everything works 
<EmxBA> just resolution is always 640x480
<highvoltage> ogra: i just read your wiki page. i think it was written before you started working at canonical :)
<EmxBA> i can give you my xorg.conf
<EmxBA> it is here:pastebin.com/713010
<ogra> highvoltage, waaay before, yes
<jsgotangco> heh
<EmxBA> highvoltage: any help? i tried #ubuntu and #ubuntu-xgl and almost nobody helps me
<EmxBA> most of tjem are idle
<EmxBA> *them
<ogra> EmxBA, nobody here has experience with it and its really not the appropriate channel for it... i suspect you have to wait for someone to answer in #ubuntu-xgl
<EmxBA> huh.....
<EmxBA> OK
<gagredo> ogra, everything stops
<highvoltage> EmxBA: i don't know, i've never even heard of iaxgl before
<ogra> highvoltage, its a extension for xorg in pre beta quality
<DanielC> How do you become a MOTU?
<highvoltage> as everything with 'xgl' in it, it seems :)
<ogra> xorg 7.1 will have it ... its enabling compisite and the like
<highvoltage> aaah ,ok.
<highvoltage> did someone say that edgy will feature xorg 7.1?
<ogra> DanielC, first become a member, then help in #ubuntu-motu with packaging and bugfixing
<ogra> highvoltage, it will
<DanielC> ogra: ok
<highvoltage> ogra: is there anything we need to do for the summit, something that i might not have done yet, that i need to?
<highvoltage> i'm just going to make some notes of ideas and put it up on launchpad+wiki so long.
<ogra> DanielC, becoming a menber starts with creating a personal wikipage and signing the code of conduct in launchpad :)
<DanielC> ogra:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielCarrera  where do I sign? :)
<ogra> highvoltage, prepare for the BOfs you will attend, if there is code to be inspected, do it now ...
<ogra> DanielC, in launchpad at your personal page 
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<gagredo> ogra, thanks a lot
<gagredo> ogra, for trying to help me
<gagredo> ogra, i've got some ideas from the chat
<gagredo> bye bye
<ogra> gagredo, so you cant switch consoles anymore (i.e. hitting alt-f4) ?
<th1a> ogra: did you used to be the Technical Lead for edubuntu?
<DanielC> ogra: Do I sign both 1.0 and 1.0.1?
<ogra> th1a, i used to *be* edubuntu, the crowd in here thats helping just formed over the last months
<jsgotangco> basically he's the big granite wall that built everything
<th1a> Is that a new title?
<ogra> DanielC, only one will suffice (i'D take the newer one)
<DanielC> ok
<th1a> Is it a paid job (Technical Lead)?
* DanielC reads
<ogra> th1a, i have actually no idea what my current title is ...
<ogra> but i'm paid, yes
<ogra> (and to be hinest i dont care at all about titles, they are for business cards only)
<th1a> I mean, I see rodarvus is the new technical lead, but I don't know what that means.
<ogra> *honest
<ogra> th1a, that i'll be reporting to him
<th1a> I'm just trying to interpret what is going on.
<ogra> and he'll be reportinng to the educational lead
* jsgotangco didn't know about rodarvus till today
* jsgotangco apologies
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats what happens if you miss meetings :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, no need to :)
<th1a> Am I on the wrong mailing list or something?  Do you mail out the minutes?
<jsgotangco> well...
<ogra> th1a, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew
<rodarvus> (sorry, I was away)
<rodarvus> th1a, jsgotangco: I'll be focused primarily on OLPC + help ogra with normal Edubuntu, whenever possible
<jsgotangco> OLPC wohooo
* jsgotangco hangs out there
<DanielC> What is the SABDFL?
<rodarvus> while talking with mdz two days ago, we discussed the development model of Edubuntu for OLPC - seems we'll follow Edgy schedule (with updates, as soon as edgy is released)
<DanielC> Context: "nobody is expected to be perfect in the Ubuntu community (except of course the SABDFL)"
<jsgotangco> DanielC: that's mark shuttleworth
<ogra> DanielC, mark shuttleworth
<DanielC> heh
<DanielC> What does it stand for?
<ogra> self applied benevolent dictator for life
<DanielC> ah
<rodarvus> so, it seems most (if not all) of our OLPC effort will be also used on *buntu
<rodarvus> s/applied/appointed/ ;)
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: im not getting it clearly...we're going to develop on top of sugar i assume?
<ogra> as its with the ltsp stuff
<ogra> i develop minly in edubuntu and thats where the biggest ltsp userbase is atm, but ltsp *is* in ubuntu
<ogra> *mainly
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, yes
* ogra sighs about knut starting a legal debate about restricted formats on edubuntu-users
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<highvoltage> i'm glad to see knut on edubuntu-users, though.
<ogra> he was autosubscribed, he was already on -devel :)
<ogra> DanielC, i just got a very intresting mail from a guy who had the screen blanking problem in the installer ... he said it works when you use a different resolution from the CD menu, did you ever try that for the ones that didnt work ? 
<DanielC> ogra: I didn't realize I could choose a different resolution.
<DanielC> ogra: Honestly, I didn't pay attention to that first screen.
<ogra> he wrote everything apart from the standard vga works for him
<DanielC> ogra: I wish I could test that, but I'm not about to re-install Edubuntu at this stage :)
<ogra> heh, indeed
<DanielC> Alright, code of conduct signed.
<DanielC> It's cool that it requires a GPG key. (I happen to be a fan of encryption).
<DanielC> Well, I'm off. I'll try to get sound working with totem later.
* jsgotangco gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> ciao
<ogra> ciao+
<th1a> rodarvus: Hi.  I was off making lunch.
<rodarvus> np :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what time are you arriving on the 17th?
<jsgotangco> ah heck its already the 17th here
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm arriving on the 18th, i'm leaving here on the 17th
<ogra> time flies
<jsgotangco> ah okay
<highvoltage> so it does
<th1a> rodarvus: I'm the project manager for SchoolTool, btw.
<highvoltage> th1a: ah, thomas hoffman!
<rodarvus> th1a, oh, nice - I didn't knew :)
* th1a is my old CMU login.
<th1a> rodarvus: is there anything written down about Edubuntu's relationship with OLPC?
<highvoltage> th1a: i don't think there's an official relationship yet, is there?
<th1a> highvoltage: That's what I'm trying to figure out.
<rodarvus> t
<rodarvus> th1a, I don't know, yet
<rodarvus> I've just joined Canonical, a few days ago
<th1a> rodarvus:  Understood.
<th1a> rodarvus: What's your background?
<rodarvus> th1a, linux distribution development, software optimization, a little embedded development, etc
<highvoltage> th1a: you're also going to be in paris next week?
<braindead7> hi all
<th1a> highvoltage: No, actually.
<braindead7> may i know is there the live cd version for edubuntu
<th1a> I drove up to Montreal last time.  There's not much for me to do at an Ubuntu conference.
<ogra> braindead7, yes, there is
<ogra> braindead7, see the download page on www.edubuntu.org
<braindead7> thanx very much ogra
<th1a> So one thing I'm trying to figure out here is which person(s) from Edubuntu should be invited to a small conference in the US about educational data interoperability.
<th1a> Which is, generally speaking, an issue that I'd like to get the community up to speed on.
<ogra> th1a, Richard can decide that i think 
<ogra> (once he's here)
<th1a> ogra: In a month?
<ogra> well, give him some time to get warm with everything :)
<ogra> he starts in a month and will have to orientate himself first ...
<ogra> when is that conf ?
<highvoltage> th1a: this about SIF?
<highvoltage> highvoltage: just asking, since helen king forwarded me a message about SIF and schooltool, and you were also included on that.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you talking to yourself again? ;-)
<highvoltage> heh.
<highvoltage> meant to ask th1a :)
<highvoltage> anyone have the link to the oficial edubuntu cookbook handy?
<th1a> highvoltage: It is in part about SIF.
<th1a> SIF and more.
<highvoltage> ok.
<th1a> I have started writing some SIF code in Python, and the good news is that it is WAY easier than I thought it would be.
<ogra> th1a, feel free to point me to a bzr branch for packaging it if you want it in edubuntu
<th1a> I think we'll have something to at least stick in Edgy multiverse.
<highvoltage> is the schooltool demo server back up again? i'm quite interested to see all the new improvements that you've been talking about. it sounds exciting.
<highvoltage> multiverse?
<ogra> th1a, why multiverse ? is it nonfree ?
<th1a> Universe, I guess.
<th1a> It is free.
<ogra> yeah
<th1a> Although it should be small enough to stick it in Edubuntu Edgy, since it'll be more likely to attract developer attention that way.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> universe is the best starting point for that ...
<th1a> Since we've quickly determined that we can ditch the old Java monstrosity.
<ogra> and probably also utnubu to get it ported to debian later
<th1a> Anyhow, it doesn't do much yet, so we can wait a month or so to think about packaging.
<ogra> we ship free java, if you can make it work with that ...
<th1a> The current code is here:  http://sifsoft.com/source/opensadk/trunk/OpenSADK_Python/
<th1a> highvoltage: We'll have an alpha release next week and the demo server back up.
<DanielC> How do you do pre-formatted text in the Ubuntu wiki?
<HedgeMage> I have no clue, sorry
<dan_young> DanielC: wrap the text with {{{ and }}}
<DanielC> Thanks.
<dan_young> DanielC: if they are on the same line as the text, you get just monospaced fonts...
<DanielC> That's useful. Thanks.
<dan_young> DanielC: if they are obove and below, you get blocks.
<dan_young> *above
* DanielC is adding his trouble-shooting tips to his page on Ubuntu.
<DanielC> dan_young: {{ doesn't seem to work for me... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielCarrera
<DanielC> (scroll to the bottom of the page)
<dan_young> DanielC: shoudl be three {{{
<DanielC> thanks
<dan_young> DanielC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnFormatting
<DanielC> stoopid me.
<DanielC> Thanks for the link.
<dan_young> DanielC: of course
<highvoltage> ogra: http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation
<highvoltage> ogra: ^^^ the lts.conf guide isn't so hidden anymore
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll make that page a bit prettier though
<ogra> i'm just tracking down the problems with local printers with sbartley
<ogra> oh, nice :)
<ogra> LaserJock, *you* packaged desktop-multiplier ?
<ogra> wow
<highvoltage> cool :)
<highvoltage> is that the Burgwork.work's desktop multiplier? or the ubuntu one?
<LaserJock> ogra: me, wha? ;-)
<ogra> see dapper-changes :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> it made it in!!!
<ogra> 	Accepted desktop-multiplier 2.2-3-0ubuntu1 (source)
<LaserJock> I see it, I've been waiting for 2 days now
<DanielC> Can I add images to the wiki?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> ogra: now hopefully I can get paid and tell people how much I dislike closed source packaging ;-)
<DanielC> How do you make the wiki not turn capital words into links? (e.g. OpenOffice, Firefox).
<LaserJock> put a '''''' inbetween
<DanielC> six ' ?
<DanielC> What do you mean by "inbetween"?
<DanielC> LaserJock: Sorry, I can't figure out your instructions and my guesses aren't working.
<LaserJock> Open''''''Office
<DanielC> ah
<LaserJock> basically you are bolding (''') nothing ;-)
<DanielC> Strange work-around, but as long as it works...
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I learned
<dan_young> DanielC: also !WikiName should work
<DanielC> dan_young: I thought I had tried that...
<dan_young> DanielC: but only if bang_meta is set, don't know if it is on wiki.ubuntu.com
<DanielC> it's not :(
<dan_young> backticks too: Wiki``Name
<DanielC> that looks better
<LaserJock> oh, yeah, that is better
<highvoltage> tomorrow this time i'll be at cape town international checking in for my flight :)
<DanielC> highvoltage: Where are you going?
<LaserJock> I'll be at Reno International at this time tommorow :-)
<ogra> tomorrow this time i'll be hitting the motorway :)
<highvoltage> DanielC: Paris
<DanielC> ah
<highvoltage> ogra: are you coming with your Porche?
<ogra> i'll try to
<ogra> lets see if it survives 2x800km :)
<LaserJock> how long will that take?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> depends on the speedlinmits in france and belgium *g*
<highvoltage> heh :)
<ogra> 5-6h i guess, belgium forces 120km/h i think
<ogra> i wont race :)
<highvoltage> in south africa it's like that. you can't drive more than 120km/h anywhere.
<ogra> well, germany has many areas without *any* speedlimit on the motorways
* LaserJock does some math
<highvoltage> really? wow.
* highvoltage guesses LaserJock isn't on metric system yet :)
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> umm, no
<DanielC> First time I went to Germany my friend and I were going at 150km and everyone was passing us :)
<LaserJock> I cheated though
<ogra> DanielC, yeah thats pretty slow :)
<LaserJock> 120km/h is about what the speed limit is here on highways
<ogra> 150 is also a half breeded speed here ... either you drive 100 on the right lane with the trucks or > 160 on the left lane ...
<DanielC> I don't understand why Europeans drive so fast given that gasoline/petrol is so expensive.
<highvoltage> how do i recursively make md5sums of all the files and subdirectories in a directory?
<ogra> to support the economy :)
<highvoltage> i keep loosing my note about that :/
<DanielC> heh
<ogra> (in fact only because we're mental ill :) )
<highvoltage> speed is addictive.
<LaserJock> it's particularly weird since Europe is so small :-)
<LaserJock> it's not like you have to go fast to get places ;-)
<dan_young> highvoltage: I'd do something like: find /foo -exec md5sum '{}' \;
<dan_young> highvoltage: can you md5sum a dir?
<highvoltage> oh, sorry, not dirs then. just files recursively :)
<dan_young> find /foo -type f -exec md5sum '{}' \;
<cbx33> evenin all
<DanielC> evening
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<cbx33> hey ogra__ 
<cbx33> three ogras ?
<cbx33> maybe one of them can help me :p
<cbx33> dang it
<highvoltage> dan_young: thanks, that worked :)
<dan_young> highvoltage: NP!
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
* highvoltage uses lintian for the first time
<LaserJock> hehe
<cbx33> highvoltage, hehe
<LaserJock> highvoltage: use it often :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i didn't realise it was this cool (or easy to use). it reminds me of when i first started to validate my pages with w3c :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, :D
<LaserJock> highvoltage: are you using lintian -I (or is it -i)
<juliux> hi all
<DanielC> ogra: You said that I should see a directory of the form /tmp/.esd-{{UID}}. What does it mean if I don't?
<cbx33> highvoltage, what are you testing?
<DanielC> ogra: I can login to the client and hear the Gnome login sound, but there's no .esd in /tmp/
<DanielC> cbx33: I said I'd put my trouble shooting tips on the wiki. They're on my page now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielCarrera (scroll down).
<highvoltage> LaserJock: no, just lintian, i didn't know about the -i switch. what does it do?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm just packaging to learn some more about packaging. currently i'm playing with flock. it's interesting because i'm learning how firefox is packaged, and why it's packaged that way.
<cbx33> highvoltage, sounds complicated :p
<LaserJock> highvoltage: -i -I give you more info as to what went wrong and how to fix it :-)
<highvoltage> aaah, thanks, good tip :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, have you used pbuilder ?
<highvoltage> no, i haven't. i think i built a pbuilder chroot way back, but have never used it
<LaserJock> use it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> it's good
<cbx33> ogra told me to check everything with pbuilder
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, it's -i
<highvoltage> is there a pbuilder howto page? i'll definately need a refresher :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: help.ubuntu.com has a handy little doc called the Ubuntu Packaging Guide *hint* ;-)
<cbx33> highvoltage, that doc is AMAZING
<ogra> DanielC, /etc/default/dhcp3-server shouldnt be touched
<highvoltage> ok ok ok  :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, I wouldn't say that
<cbx33> I would
<ogra> dhcp3-server autodetects if there is a static interface atht matches the ip range
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, but did I say it should? In my page I said /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> Make sure that on /etc/default/dhcp3-server that eth1 is specified in the INTERFACES= but not eth0.
<ogra> thats from your page 
<DanielC> ah
<ogra> as long as INTERFACES="" it will autodetect
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, that's the advice someone else gave me. I take it I should delete that?
<ogra> as soon as you add an interface name there , autodetection is disabled
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, so someone gave me bad advice...
<ogra> its not really *bad* advise, but you cut doen functionallity
<ogra> *down
<ogra> thats how it had to be with older dhcpd releases
<juliux> ogra, can you take a look to edubuntu-de and http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/35888/
<DanielC> ogra: fixed
<ogra> juliux, openGL isnt possible over ltsp ...
<juliux> ogra, ok
* DanielC would love to run glx on thin clients ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I need OpenGL for science apps :/
<ogra> LaserJock, implement local apps ;)
* highvoltage is surprised how much of edubuntu-de he understands
<LaserJock> ogra: yes sir ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: if only I knew what I was doing, I'd be on it
<DanielC> ogra: If I don't see a directory called /tmp/.esd-{UID} that's bad, right?
<ogra> highvoltage, well, you speak some weird mix of northern german slang, english and dutch in your country ;)#
<ogra> DanielC, does it work ? 
<DanielC> ogra: No.
<ogra> thats bad then
<DanielC> ogra: I mean, the gnome login plays a sound, but nothing else works after that.
<highvoltage> ogra: yeah, i think i'm going to keep reading that channel. one day when there's a meeting in germany i won't have to buy a german cd/book ;)
<DanielC> ogra: I tried rythmbox and totem-gstreamer btw.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I've tried that to, I didn't get very far :(
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i tried that with the spanish channel, didn't work for me either. German seems like a much easier language to interpret, since it contains many elements of my native language. I think it might work this time.
<LaserJock> it's all non-english to me ;-)
<LaserJock> stupid uni-lingual Americans :-)
<highvoltage> i thought americans learn a second language in high school? like spanish or french?
<DanielC> Laserjock: call them monoglots, that's fun.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: some, I never did
<LaserJock> I'm 4th year PhD and I've never been required to take a second language
<DanielC> highvoltage: some, but not very much. Not like you would in Canada or Europe.
<highvoltage> that's interesting. i always thought that it's very common to learn a second language in school.
<LaserJock> I should have, in hindsight
<DanielC> highvoltage: The USA is not typical.
<highvoltage> it seems easier to learn another language if you already know more than one, according to people who know a lot.
<highvoltage> DanielC: what do you mean?
<DanielC> highvoltage: most countries have a higher motivation to learn another language and greater awareness of the outside world than the USA.
<LaserJock> although there are more and more spanish speaking people in the US  so there is more emphasis on learning languages than when I was younger
<highvoltage> in all the american 'school' movies i've watched there's some spanish or french class. that's probably why I thought so.
<LaserJock> where I live, virtually all service jobs want bilingual people
<DanielC> highvoltage: For example, Canada is a bilingual country, the third world needs to export to the first world, Europe is made of many different countries, etc.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: they are available for sure, but a lot of the time they aren't required
<DanielC> highvoltage: I know English and Spanish and I'm trying to learn German. I'd definitely say that learning a third language after you are bilingual is much easier.
<juliux> DanielC, you want to learn german?
<LaserJock> I do too
<DanielC> juliux: yes
<juliux> cool
<ogra> DanielC, juliux can teach you, he's in your country ;)
<LaserJock> German is pretty popular for chemists
<ogra> i thought that was latin :)
<juliux> DanielC, ogra is right, so you can me teach english and i can teach you german ;)
<DanielC> :-)
<juliux> DanielC, where in u.k. are you?
<DanielC> juliux: Not sure if you want to learn English from me. I'm not a native speaker.
<DanielC> juliux: Tamworth, near Birmingham.
<juliux> DanielC, its only 2.5h from london ;)
<DanielC> heh
<juliux> but the most times the trains are late so i think 3h ;)
* juliux needs a beer
<DanielC> :)
<juliux> a good german becks beer bought in england ;)
<juliux> hi mhz 
<LaserJock> ogra: not in chemistry, German is good because most of the old journals from the early 1900's are in German
<ogra> haha, funny
<DanielC> ogra: How do I test if esd is running other than checking /tmp/.esd* ?  What should I see on the output of "ps aux"?
<ogra> yeah, back then there was some inteilligence in that country ... i wonder where its gone :)
<LaserJock> chemistry and physics have a heavy German influence
<ogra> DanielC, esd should run on the client ... you shouldt see it on the server at all
<juliux> LaserJock, yea she good old germany ;)
<LaserJock> some time ago you used to *have* to learn German to get a PhD here
<juliux> s/she/the
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, so I guess that the fact that I don't is a good thing...
<LaserJock> the would give you a test where you had to translate a German chemistry article into English before you could get your PhD
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and if you hear the login sound all should be fine 
<LaserJock> but now, people don't even now English and get there PhDs
<DanielC> ogra: Ok.
<kbrooks> cbx33: ping
<DanielC> ogra: Is there anything I can test? The gstreamer-properties test works, but totem-gstreamer and rythmbox don't.
<ogra> what are you trying to play ? both work here 
<DanielC> ogra: Just an Ogg file. It worked before...
<DanielC> It's not a codec issue or any such.
<DanielC> ogra: Should there be something in the server's /etc/var/daemon.log? (there isn't, and the client doesn't have a daemon.log).
<ogra> only in the users .xsession-errors the daemon runs fine
<DanielC> Hmm... I don't see anything relevant in .xsession-errors
#edubuntu 2006-06-17
<coz_> evening all
<coz_> has the edubuntu forums openied up yet
<coz_> opened
<flint> good morning...
<flint> Anyone out there got any idea how to get the dhcp daemon started on an install copy of 6.06?
<HedgeMage> flint: you're better off asking on the mailing list... almost everyone is getting ready or on their way to the Paris conference
<spacey>  /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<spacey> and i'm off to rotterdam
<spacey> so good luck
<flint> HedgeMage, thanks, I am staying here in the wilds of Vermont, going to Maine to teach at the NorthEast Linux Symposium, eat lobster and drink beer...
<HedgeMage> sheesh, everyone's going somewhere fun but me :P
<flint> spacey, Rotterdam is actually fairly nice if you like good Cheese and large supertankers...
<spacey> lol
<crimsun_> HedgeMage: not really :)
<spacey> rotterdam is not fun
<spacey> its work
<spacey> and i just have to hope to work is fun :P
<crimsun_> HedgeMage: I'm here debugging a resume from suspend-to-RAM issue, and I have to renew my clearance next week. Probably less fun than anything. ;)
<spacey> clearance?
<crimsun_> security clearance, blame these stupid grants
<HedgeMage> crimsun_: heh, I'm hoping my GS/NAF and contractor days are over.
<flint> HedgeMage, why do you think I am in Vermont kido?  I will not do this for those people.
<flint> HedgeMage, BTW GS what?
<flint> HedgeMage, typically an integer < 15.
<HedgeMage> flint: GS == General Schedule, it is a type of civilian that works for the US government
<flint> HedgeMage, Indeed... the range of General Schedule jobs starts at 1 and goes to 15 each GS Grade has 10 "steps" or at least it did until the Bush Administration took over... :^)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<flint> HedgeMage, I am presuming that you are a fellow contractor... No government person would care about anything after 17:00, or more likely 14:30.
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> flint: former
<HedgeMage> quit my job when my son was kidnapped by his sitter and my boss demanded I return to work immediately anyway
<flint> HedgeMage, same here.
<flint> HedgeMage, still in DC?
<HedgeMage> Washington state
<flint> HedgeMage, It is much better where you are.  I did my time. 
<flint> Now a refugee.
<flint> HedgeMage, gotta sleep my dear... thanks for all your help.  I appreciate use of the name.
<HedgeMage> ttyl :)
<flint> sksk
<juliux> good morning
<DanielC> morning
<juliux> morning DanielC 
<DanielC> hey
<DanielC> Does anyone know if sound works better in standard LTSP than it does on Edubuntu thin clients?
<DanielC> My employer is not happy about the fact that sound won't work because this is important for schools and he asked me to find out if using Red Hat would be better.
<dibblego> hello
<ogra> DanielC, did you get totem and RB working now ? 
<ogra> dibblego, hi
<dibblego> is edubuntu appropriate for a 5 year old who likes learning stuff?
<dibblego> he currently uses plain GNOME ubuntu with some maths applications
<ogra> sure it is 
<dibblego> I don't understand why it is an entire OS and not just a bunch of educational software
<ogra> gcompris and the tux4kids stuff is targeting that age
<dibblego> I might give it a shot, thanks
<ogra> the edubuntu-desktop package is that bunch of edu software you men 
<ogra> *mean
<dibblego> oh right, so it replaces GNOME?
<ogra> edubuntu itself is a bit more than just edu software :)
<dibblego> ok
<ogra> nope it uses gnome, but adds edu software and younger default artwork
<dibblego> ok, I'll play, cheers
<ogra> :)
<DanielC> ogra: Hi. What's RB?
<ogra> rhythmbox
<DanielC> ogra: Ah. No, I didn't :(
<ogra> i was to lazy to type that long name 
<DanielC> I've been trying to trouble shoot the sound thing, but without success.
<ogra> have a look at /etc/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefoxrc
<ogra> check if changing auto to esd or to esddsp solves it
<DanielC> The closest match I find is /etc/firefox/firefoxrc
<ogra> might be ok
<DanielC> The only line is.  FIREFOX_DSP="none"  So I'll set that to "esd".
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> or esddsp
<DanielC> And reboot the thin client?
<ogra> just restart firefox in the session
<DanielC> ok
* DanielC restarts firefox
<DanielC> This is so weird. Now firefox won't start. It says
<DanielC> unrecognized option: /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin
<DanielC> unrecognized option: -a
<DanielC> unrecognized option: firefox
<DanielC>  /usr/lib/firefox/firefox is a script, I'm taking a look at it, but I haven't touched it since installation.
<DanielC> Ok, the problem has something to do with setting FIREFOX_DSP="esd" on firefoxrc
<DanielC> If I put it back to "none" then Firefox starts normally.
<DanielC> So it's a bug in the firefox script.
<ogra> nope
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/29760
<ogra> try esddsp instead
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> ogra: firefox starts... I'm waiting for the sample flash movie to load.
* DanielC should find a simpler sounds page to test with.
<DanielC> Firefox crashed :(
<ogra> ok
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* DanielC tries to find another web page to test with
<ogra> any errors if you start it from commandline ?
<DanielC> Just a "Bus error"
<DanielC> Hmm... it crashes when I try to bookmark a page.
<DanielC> So it's not the sound per se.
<DanielC> Actually... changing FIREFOX_DSP makes firefox not crash when I bookmark a page.
<ogra> did you try my suggestion from yesterday ? 
<ogra> running: esddsp firefox
<DanielC> The test page I'm using loads fine when FIREFOX_DSP is "none" but doesn't load when it's "esddsp".
<ogra> did thyt crash as well ? 
<DanielC> ogra: Yes, but I had problems. It didn't crash (but then, I didn't try to bookmark a page) but the page still didn't load.
<DanielC> Looks like it makes Firefox freeze actually. I just tried closing the window and it wouldn't, so I had to kill it.
<DanielC> I just tested a bit more. It seems to behave the same when I run "esddsp firefox" and when I set FIREFOX_DSP="esddsp".  Firefox seems to download the Flash video but not play it, and Firefox becomes less stable.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> try: export LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0"
<ogra> and run firefox then
<DanielC> In /etc/firefox/firefoxrc or on the terminal?
<ogra> inj the term
<ogra> oh, wait
<ogra> the second path is wrong
<ogra> /usr/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> thats the right one for libesddsp
<DanielC> Same behaviour (and I ran `ls $LD_PRELOAD` to make sure typed it right).
<ogra> same means ? 
<ogra> it crashes ? 
<DanielC> ogra: It only crashes firefox when I try to bookmark.
<ogra> does it play any sound in flash if you dont bookmark ? 
<DanielC> ogra: Flash itself seems to start, and then just freeze (the Flash). No, it never plays a sound.
<DanielC> The Flash itself seems to start, but about 1/2 of a second into it, seems to freeze.
<ogra> echo $ESPEAKER shows your client ip and port 16001 ?
<DanielC> Yes: 192.168.17.247:16001
<DanielC> (which is the correct IP for the client)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> try: esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> Behaves different. Although I can't hear sound, flash doesn't crash.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> close ff
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> then: export ESDDSP_MIXER=1
<ogra> then try again
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> No luck. Flash freezes up again.
<DanielC> (running just "firefox")
<ogra> no
<ogra> run it like above
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> Works fine (except for sound) Flash doesn't freeze.
<ogra> the original soundscript did the following (before friefox was changed completely that worked (see the bug link i posted above):
<ogra> export ESPEAKER=${LTSP_CLIENT}:16001
<ogra>  export ESDDSP_MIXER=1
<ogra> export LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0"
<ogra> with that sound worked fine, until firefox was changed out of security reasons
<DanielC> Hmm...
* DanielC is tempted to grab an old/insecure version of firefox
<ogra> hmm, wait
<ogra> it can be that flash expects a libesd.so.1 to be available, there was a bug once...
<ogra> try: sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesd.so.1
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> and run  esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox again
<DanielC> Still no sound.
<DanielC> Should totem-gstreamer produce sound before Flash does or are these totally independent things?
<DanielC> ie. it is possible for Flash to work with sound but totem-gstreamer not produce sound, right?
<ogra> we just try to force flash to use the esd daemon on the client directly
<ogra> so they are unrelated
<DanielC> Ok. Thanks.
<DanielC> Well, Flash is the one that matters... 
<ogra> what you could try would be switching to epiphany for a test
<DanielC> sure
<ogra> it wraps the flash plugin differently 
<ogra> hmm
<DanielC> I'm running "aptitude install epiphany".
<ogra> i wonder if we should try something else, i'm not sure ff will pick up the exported LD_PRELOAD
<DanielC> Epiphany installed.
<ogra> LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0" esddsp --server=192.168.17.247:16001 firefox
<ogra> what if you call it like that ? 
<ogra> in one long line
* DanielC just realized that the package "epiphany" doesn't have the epiphany browser.
<ogra> lol
<ogra> no
<ogra> its epiphany-browser :)
<DanielC> :)
* DanielC runs ogra's latest suggestion.
<ogra> we'll very likely switch to it in edgy
<DanielC> Wait... you mean that whole thing as on eline?
<ogra> and drop ff by default
<ogra> yeah
<DanielC> Should there be an && before esddsp?
<ogra> nope
<DanielC> ok...
<ogra> you can try the same again if it doesnt work but with libesd.so.1 instead of 0
<ogra> if that doesnt work either my only hope is epiphany
<DanielC> I see several lines of:
<DanielC> ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libesddsp.so.0" from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignore
<ogra> err
<ogra> indeed, wrong path
<ogra> /usr/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0
<ogra> sorry, pasted the wrong line
<DanielC> No errors, but no luck either.
* DanielC runs "aptitude install epiphany-browser"
<ogra> did you also try with libesd.so.1 instead of 0 ?
<DanielC> No, I didn't. I'll try that.
<DanielC> Btw: epiphany runs the movie without it freezing (but no sound).
<ogra> ok
<DanielC> libesd.so.1 => no change
<ogra> :/
<ogra> i'm out of ideas ... my only suggestion is to contact iwj to ask him how to change it
<DanielC> Who is iwj?
<ogra> but he's travelling to paris currently and nobody of us will be able to do much apart from writing specs next week
<ogra> the firefox maintainer
<DanielC> Should I tell him anything more specific than that sound doesn't work and what we did to try to fix it?
<ogra> he knows that, see the bug
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> Yes, I skimmed through the bug.
<DanielC> Well, thanks a lot for the help and for spending so much time on this.
<DanielC> My employer would like to know if this is probably an Ubuntu-specific issue of if we're likely to hit the same problems in other LTSP imlementations.
<ogra> as i understand it its a generic firefox issue
<DanielC> ok, thanks
<DanielC> Is this a problem with firefox or the proprietary plugin? (or a bit of both?)
<ogra> as the bug says it will be solved if macromedia switches from directly accessing the (totally obsolete) /dev/dsp directly
<ogra> which is announced for flash 8.5 ...
<DanielC> Ok. So it's at least partly macromedia. Any idea when that change might happen?
<ogra> but flash 8.5 will not be released for linux before autumn
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> (i think they even want to skip 8 and only release 9 for linux)
<DanielC> Well, the important thing is that it will be fixed in the forseable future.
* DanielC goes to report the situation to his boss
<ogra> DanielC, "Users who find this inconvenient can turn the hack back on but may
<ogra> of course find that their browser is unstable."
<ogra> thast from the bugreport 
<ogra> ask iwj *how* to enable it again
<ogra> (he doesnt say that in the bug)
<DanielC> back
<ogra> i hate to say that and i'm not sure it works at all, but you could try with a firefox from mozilla.org
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, I'll ask him. Thanks.
<DanielC> It's worth trying. The worse case scenario is that it won't work.
<ogra> take the variant that you can install in the users homedir to avoid clashes
<DanielC> will do
<DanielC> Well, they have only one version. But that version can be installed in the homedir. It's just a tar ball.
<ogra> oki
<ogra> use that one then
<DanielC> ogra: The one from mozilla.com behaves the same in every respect (both when Flash freezes and when it doesn't).
<ogra> did you try the different methods we tried before ? 
<DanielC> yes I did
<ogra> the LD_PRELOAD stuff etc ? 
<ogra> also make sure to run the right ff :)
<DanielC> Yes. That very long command line, when I ask you about &&. I tried that one.
<DanielC> Yes :) I run ./firefox/firefox from the homedir.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> so its upstream as well
<ogra> then redhat likely wont help you
<ogra> unless they re-opened the security breakage
<ogra> but thats unlikely
<DanielC> If it's a minor security breakage I might be willing to go for it. It depends on what it is. It's not like we're likely to have viruses under Linux anyways.
<DanielC> Or like there's going to be any critical data on a cyber cafe.
<ogra> oh... i'm not sure the mozilla browser was changed in that area, thats probably worth another try
<ogra> its a major security breakage
<ogra> not minor
<DanielC> What is it?
<ogra> you can inject code 
<ogra> it wont be critical in a cybercafe i guess, but well
<DanielC> If I could make it work with the security breakage I'll have a discussion with my employer.
<ogra> since its also not working with upstreams firefox, you will likely have to change ff soucrecode and recompile it to even change it ...
<DanielC> For a cyber cafe it really shouldn't matter...
<ogra> you surely dont want that
<DanielC> No, I draw the line at recompiling firefox :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> even on our fastest machines in the datacenter compiling it takes several hours
<ogra> try with mozilla-browser as a last resort
* DanielC is downloading the mozilla suite from mozilla.com
<ogra> nooo
<ogra> there is a package
<DanielC> ?
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> use the package from universe
<ogra> or was it main ?
* ogra looks
<ogra> universe :)
* DanielC runs "aptitude install mozilla-browser"
<DanielC> How do you find out if a package is on main or universe?
<DanielC> Can aptitude tell you that?
<ogra> apt-cache madison <package>
<ogra> dunno about aptitude since i know nobody who uses it
<DanielC> I use aptitude :)
<DanielC> Ok, I see it with apt-cache. Thanks.
<ogra> yeah, i see
* DanielC starts trying with mozilla
<coz_> morning all
<coz_> does anyone here know of a link that lists the locations within the US where edubuntu has already been implemented,  what the systems set up for each location required as well as the "switch over" reqirememnts were..ie.. if installed in school, what requirements were needed to be met in terms of software according to state requirements
<DanielC> ogra: mozilla is the same: running with the LD_PRELOAD line Flash freezes, running stand-alone Flash runs (without sound), with the plain esddsp --server line Flash runs (without sound). So it's the same as Firefox.
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> coz_, there is no such list, but you could ask on the edubuntu-users mailinglist
<DanielC> So I'll talk to iwj later.
<ogra> yep
<coz_> orthanks
<ogra> i see no other solution atm
<coz_> ogra, `thanks
<ogra> coz_, youre welcome :)
<DanielC> coz_: "switch over" might be too ambitious.
<DanielC> coz_: Most schools that implement Edubuntu will use it as a complement to their existing system.
<coz_> DanielC, that was one fo the things i was curious about
<DanielC> There's too much educational software that won't run on Linux. And sound support on thing clients is spotty at best.
<ogra> DanielC, well, there are some that switch over from k12ltsp :)
<DanielC> coz_: ok :)  Fully migrations will likely be unexistent.
<coz_> DanielC, yeah that was my concern abut this
<ogra> thats not true
<DanielC> ogra: Do you know of any school that is running only Linux thin clients?
<ogra> as i said i know some schools that switched from being k12ltsp to edubuntu
<DanielC> But do they not also have non-Linux boxes?
<coz_> orga where are these located
<ogra> sure, in the use eastcoast ... jelkner, flint and kjcole run some installs at schools
<ogra> s/use/US/
<coz_> orga what bout libraries 
<ogra> kjcole and jelkner run libraries on edubuntu since breezy already
<ogra> not many though, three or four each
<ogra> they both maintain several schools and public libs
<DanielC> From what I can tell, ltsp is a long way off from being a full solution for a school. It only looks viable as part of a larger system (e.g. you could have two labs, one ltsp and one windows).
<coz_> so is this being implemented ini third world countried
<coz_> countried
<coz_> damn countries
<DanielC> Libraries are a much simpler setup than schools.
<ogra> DanielC, the ltsp.org guys *live* from ltsp installs ...
<DanielC> ltsp should work well for a library.
<coz_> DanielC, yes because of state requirements for software
<ogra> there is a pretty big community 
<DanielC> ogra: I'm sure that's true. But that doesn't make it a full solution for a school.
<ogra> DanielC, plenty of schools would disagree
<ogra> :)
<DanielC> coz_: Truth be told, Linux needs software for schools that doesn't exist yet. That's why there is work on SchoolTool and the like.
<DanielC> ogra: I'd be interested in learning more about those schools, honestly.
<coz_> I used to teach elementary special Ed for a number of years, edubuntu was pretty exciting to me the first time I ran it
<coz_> I ws hoping that some schools may have adopted it already
<DanielC> If we can make Edubuntu a full solution for schools we'll jump at that opportunity.
<ogra> DanielC, you should talk to highvoltage then, TSF runs nearly all schools they are responsible for on ltsp
<DanielC> Me and my boss are very strong open source advocates, but it has to work.
<coz_> DanielC, I think it is possible for "in class" learning
<DanielC> ogra: Ok, I'll ask him.
<ogra> DanielC, and iirc that are ~140
<DanielC> ogra: 140 schools that use nothing but Linux?
<ogra> DanielC, its really a question what you expect and where you are located
<ogra> DanielC, yes
<coz_> mm
<DanielC> ogra: I'm located in the UK. Yes, it's about what you expect. Schools expect several software applications that Linux doesn't have and they expect sound :)
<ogra> southamerican, african and asian schools are more likely to run linux based solutions for example 
<DanielC> yes
<DanielC> true that.
<DanielC> When I say "schools" I'm certainly thinking from a UK POV.
<coz_> DanielC, sound? I found no problem with sound..
<ogra> skolelinux runs ~400 schools on linux solutions (many mixed solutions among them though)
<DanielC> coz_: Have you got Firefox to play sound on thin clients?
<coz_> DanielC,  no I haven't tried yet
<DanielC> ogra: As far as I can see, mixed solutions are all we can reasonably hope for here for now.
<ogra> firefox plays sound fine on thin clients ;) flash doesnt
<DanielC> coz_: exactly.
<DanielC> well...
<DanielC> Flash then.
<coz_> org ok that will probably change next year
<ogra> its neither a prob of ff nor of linux, its a prob of macromedia not opening the source and relying on an soundsystem thats obsolete since 5 years so that can be fixed
<ogra> s/can/ant/
<ogra> grr
<ogra> s/can/cant/
<DanielC> :(
<coz_> change of subject ... I post a bit of artwork on the forums some of wich is for edubuntu... who are the people responsible for  artwork in edubuntu/
<ogra> we have an art team, look at launchpad.net
<coz_> ok
<coz_> thanks for all the information guys .. having taught for some years i really like the idea of edubuntu so I will probably be back every so often to ask questions ... thanks again
<Rondom> too bad that many teachers don't have the abilities to run linux in school
<DanielC> Rondom: That may be true, but it's not what I was thinking of just now. It's not the teacher's fault if Linux doesn't have an application for something they need.
<Rondom> DanielC: yeah, but my informatics teacher is glad that his arktur-server works
<Rondom> you know arktur?
<Rondom> it's a slackware based distro for school servers
<Rondom> it's pretty old and unmaintained still has php 3 on it....
<Rondom> I told him about edubuntu and he didn't want to change a running system
<DanielC> Rondom: Ok. I don't understand how this is an example of a teacher not knowing how to use Linux.
<DanielC> If he can manage slackware, he's probably reasonably competent.
<Rondom> Well, I actually don't want to put edubuntu on the machines, because I don't want to maintain the whole stuff and I doubt anyone will continue doing so after I leave school
<Rondom> DanielC: he can't manage slackware
<Rondom> he reads tutorials asks in forums
<Rondom> asks=asked
<Rondom> reads=read :-/
<DanielC> yay!
<ogra> add the following to the top of /usr/bin/firefox
<ogra> if [ ! -e /tmp/.esd/socket ] ; then
<ogra> /bin/mkdir /tmp/.esd
<ogra> /bin/touch /tmp/.esd/socket
<ogra> fi 
<ogra> (add the right indedation there)
<Rondom> DanielC: you said anything after my last msg?
* DanielC adds that that at the top of the script
<ogra> now every start of ff will check for it and create it if it doesnt exist
<DanielC> Rondom: nope
<Rondom> ok
<DanielC> ogra: yes, I know bash :)
* Rondom hates disconnects
<ogra> but it will be overwritten on firefox upgrades
<ogra> so dont forget about that if you have security upgrades :)
<DanielC> Yeah... I'll make a note of this.
<DanielC> Thanks for the help!!
<ogra> also note down the libesd.so.1 link for future reference ;)
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> I'll add this to my tips page.
<ogra> cool :)
<topoor> i have a compaq deskpro as ltsp client with a on borad cirrus graphic card i get only a screen resolution of 640/480
<topoor> iput in lts.conf XSERVER         = cirrus  X_MODE_0        = 800x600         X_HORZSYNC      = 30-92  X_VERTREFRESH   = 50-160
<topoor> but resolution is still 6400/480 any idea?
<rodarvus> good morning
<DanielC> ogra: Did you say yesterday that X_MODE was ignored? Might this be topoor's problem?
<topoor> DanielC: i read it too X_MODE_0 through X_MODE_2 Not yet implemented but how to change the resolution?
<DanielC> topoor: I wish I knew...
<DanielC> Someone here ought to know.
<DanielC> This is definitely the right place to ask. It's just a bit quiet right now.
<DanielC> Maybe because a lot of people are preparing to leave on a trip to Paris for an Ubuntu meeting.
<topoor> i solve it: i put  X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 8 and now i get 800X600 strange for me but ... 
<topoor> it works
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> I'll take a note of that.
<topoor> strange and stranger X_COLOR_DEPTH Not yet implemented https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams
<DanielC> weird...
<topoor> i am testing with X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 16 wait a bit...
<topoor> X_COLOR_DEPTH   = 16 it goes back to 6400x480 refresh rate is 85 hz (from 60 to 85 hz)
<DanielC> Ok. So it's the color depth then.
<DanielC> Might be a limitation in the video card (e.g. too little video memory)
<topoor> how can i find out the video memory fo my graphic card?
<DanielC> Good question... I'm not sure.
<DanielC> If it's anything remotely new then it's not the card.
<DanielC> But if we're talking of a 486 computer, then it might be.
<topoor> i ty
<DanielC> Last time I had to worry about video card memory I was running a 486 computer and pentiums were the latest thing.
<topoor> i try to go to /optltsp/i386/proc but the directory is empty, where are the proc of the clients?
<DanielC> First create a root account for the clients so you can login locally.
<DanielC> You won't see it in /opt/ltsp
<DanielC> Run: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<DanielC> Create a root password.
<DanielC> Then on the client press ctrl+alt+f1, login to a terminal and take a look at /proc
<DanielC> I don't know what to look for in /proc though...
<AstroKing> I have a question about the money in Tux4Kids Maths.  It's in Euros.  Our school is in the USA, so we would need it in dollars for the students.  Is there a way to change the program to US currency?
<AstroKing> Hello?  Anyone here?
<DanielC> hello
<DanielC> I don't know.
* DanielC starts tux4kids
<AstroKing> This is the one thing that I keep running into when I propose switching our school to edubuntu.  Administration won't go for it because of the Euro issue.
<DanielC> What's the command-line program? tuxmath?
<DanielC> Yup...
* DanielC takes a look
<AstroKing> I can't remember right now - I'm on a Windows machine at the moment and don't have access to my edubuntu system.
<DanielC> I don't see the Euro symbols. Where are they?
<AstroKing> In TuxMaths it has a lesson on coins and they are Euro coins - not US currency.  Let me start up my live cd on this other computer and see if I can find it real quick.
<DanielC> Are you sure this is tuxmath we're talking about?
<DanielC> Might that be Gcompris?
<AstroKing> My apologies - I think that was the program.  Sorry, I got confused.
<DanielC> The images are in /usr/share/gcompris/boards/money/
<AstroKing> Ok, let me look
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<DanielC> I'm not aware of any package that has pictures of US money, but if you can find those pictures (e.g. use a digital camera) you could replace the Euros by the dollars.
<AstroKing> Yeah, well now that I know the location (I'm a linux newbie), I can probably Google for images of US coins.  Thanks - that helps a lot.
<DanielC> If you need help with that just come back here and I'll help.
<topoor> DanielC: thanks u very much now i can take a look to the log of the clients
<topoor> quit
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> Laser_away: ping
<highvoltage> ogra_: pinr
<highvoltage> ogra: ping
<ogra> highvoltage, ponr
<ogra> highvoltage, pong
<DanielC> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: lol! ogra, my cell phone number changed, it's +2778 108 2588
<ogra> oki, will note it
<ogra> thnks
<highvoltage> just in case you get a call from a strange number tomorrow :)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> when are you leaving? my flight is quite late, 11:45PM tonight
<ogra> i just looked into the routeplanner, apprently i was wrong and its only 450km from here 
<DanielC> highvoltage: Are you located in the UK?
<ogra> so only a 3-4h drive
<ogra> so i'll drive tomorrow morning
<DanielC> ogra: Are you in Saarbrucken?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'm in the middle of nowhere near the belgian border
<ogra> but i'm about to move to the middle of the country (right after paris)
<DanielC> My boss says he met an Oliver from Ubuntu in Saarbrucken last year, with a guy called Manfred. It was about an EU project for a sever or something like that.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> that was me
<DanielC> ok :)  My employer is Ian Lynch, if you remeber the name.
<ogra> he's the openoffice advocate, right ? 
<DanielC> yes
<ogra> yeah, i remember him
<DanielC> ok :)
<ogra> that meeting was a bit pointless :)
<DanielC> So it seems...
<DanielC> Oh well, such is life.
<highvoltage> DanielC: i'm in south africa
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, it wasnt pointless since i met ian :) 
<DanielC> :)
<ogra> send him greetings
<DanielC> will do.
<ogra> :)
<DanielC> Ian's attitude is that you never know which one of these meetings will turn into something, so you just give it a go and eventually something will turn out.
<ogra> yeah, but the problem was that they had no idea what they wanted
<ogra> it could have been a good meeting if that would have been clear from the beginning
<ogra> too many different interests ...
<flint> Good morining
<highvoltage> morning mr flint!
<DanielC> ogra: Yeah, that's what Ian says too.
<DanielC> flint: morning
<flint> Anyone got any idea how to get around the Edubuntu ltsp login bug?
<ogra> hey flint !
<DanielC> flint: If it's morning for you I take it you are in the US/Canada west coast?
<ogra> flint, there is no login bug, only users that didnt read the docs :P 
<ogra> flint, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<flint> Ogra highvoltage I beat the dhcp bug.  The trick is to configure the card from the gui!!!
<ogra> flint, everytime you change ip settings for the ltsp part in edubuntu ;)
<flint> thanks Ollie!!!!!
<ogra> ;)
<flint> I swear a mighty oath, this looking over Jonathan's stuff is good for me!
<flint> How is Paris, you damn swains?
<ogra> yeah, its good for everyone :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> highvoltage, do you have set something up that kicks people for the term swains ?
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> lol
<ogra> flint, *giggle*
<ogra> what did you do ?
<flint> ogra with this last sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys working (and it did!!!) I will forge on with this conference in Main USA, eat lobster and think of good expresso and cigars...
<highvoltage> ogra: *g*
<ogra> flint, cool
<ogra> flint, i'm not in paris yet btw
<ogra> flint, mdz just arrived there though
<highvoltage> flint: we're not in paris yet, so we'll find out tomorrow
<flint> anyway you two keep that teamspeak thing in front of folks I may want to try to link our conferences if you want...
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> i'm just looking on th radisson sas site to try to figure out if they have a map available
<flint> ah give my best to the wild zimmerman...
<ogra> flint, he's in #ubuntu-devel :)
<DanielC> Do you guys get some time to travel around Paris? Or is it all work?
<highvoltage> zimmerman? wild?
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, he *can* be wild :)
<highvoltage> heh. ok :)
<flint> highvoltage: Jonathan, the problem is it will be in French!  
<highvoltage> i thought it's just the elmo you find in the wild.
<flint> ogra trust me I can get him wild, I just use FITS!
<ogra> DanielC, canonical pays flights and the hotel, since you can pick the time for the flights yourself, you can just stay a week longer and move to a cheaper hotel ...
<flint> ask the man about Flint Induced Tourettes Syndrome... everyone shold have it...
<highvoltage> flint: i get an idea there will be little time for anything but work, but we'll have tomorrow evening and saturday morning, although i get a feeling that might be busy too. i haven't seen the schedule yet.
<DanielC> ogra: Oh, that's nice of them.
<ogra> flint, so try how FITS works out via teamspeak ;)
<flint> ogra ah remote FITS 
<ogra> DanielC, well, you'd have to pay the second hotel youerself indeed
<highvoltage> are they compatible?
<DanielC> ogra: Well, if you are coming from South Africa that's still a very nice deal.
<ogra> he should really stop playing with his network settings while chatting :)
<ogra> DanielC, true
<flint> gotta go my braves - be vERY smart!
<ogra> ciao flint 
<flint> and Thanks!!!
<flint> sksk
<ogra> DanielC, i used that opportunity in sydney :)
<DanielC> cool
<DanielC> I've never been to Australia.
<ogra> we flew a week earlier
<DanielC> I want to go some day.
* DanielC goes to his room to grab his gym bag - going to the gym
<ogra> enjoy
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hiya pygi 
<pygi> what you wanted to talk about related to  cookbook?
<pygi> I can steal some time to talk
<HedgeMage> I wanted to put together some sort of chapter spec
<pygi> hm, I saw you already wrote something?
<HedgeMage> I put the overall outline together...
<HedgeMage> I'm talking about something stating how an individual chapter should be formatted, what individual items need to be there, etc.
<pygi> right, so chapters layout
* HedgeMage nods
<pygi> hm, that will take some time
<pygi> I shall try to get some time to assemble something
<HedgeMage> I figure once we hack out the ideas, I could put together some sort of docbook template for folks to use.
* HedgeMage nods
<DanielC> You know what would be cool? If we could setup per-client auto-login through lts.conf
<DanielC> So, when I boot the first client it auto logs in as "user01" and the second client auto logs in as "user02" etc.
<DanielC> So I can tell the teacher that all they do is turn the client on and it "just works".
<DanielC> Is this possible at all?
<ogra> DanielC, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-login-and-session-handling
<ogra> we'll discuss it in paris
<DanielC> *click*
<DanielC> Good man :)
<DanielC> ogra: The specification is empty :)
<ogra> DanielC, sure, we're meeting in paris to write it
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> I look forward to reading the spec later.
<DanielC> But do you at least have a couple of use cases?
<HedgeMage>  hi Seveas 
<Seveas> hi
<cbx33> hey Seveas 
<cbx33> whois mvo
<cbx33> whoops
<kbrooks> cbx33: AHA
<kbrooks> cbx33: fou nd ya
<cbx33> hi kbrooks 
<kbrooks> whats up?
<cbx33> i think it's solved it now :p
<cbx33> so, how could I improve my code?
<kbrooks> what's solved now
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> another python app problem
<kbrooks> cbx33: oh k
<kbrooks> can we talk in #gisomount?
<cbx33> sure
#edubuntu 2006-06-18
* HedgeMage peeks in to see if anyone is alive
* DanielC waves
<DarkElf109> Two questions: Is it possible to use GDM instead of LDM for the LTSP clients, and if so, how? Further, what's the best way to get local media mounted?
<DarkElf109> Oh, heya =)
<DanielC> DarkElf109: Upgrade to Dapper.
<DarkElf109> Installed from the Dapper CD
<DanielC> HedgeMage: I notice that there are no presentation templates for Edubuntu (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations). Can I make one and upload it?
<DanielC> DarkElf109: :(
<HedgeMage> DanielC: go for it! :D
<DanielC> :-)
<HedgeMage> can someone recommend a good calendar app?
<DanielC> HedgeMage: How do you upload files? is there anything I should keep in mind before uploading?
<DanielC> re calendar: No, sorry.
<DarkElf109> HedgeMage: iCal's the best I've found...makes me sad I don't have a Mac =P
<DarkElf109> HedgeMage: Though, I will say, Yahoo Calendar is very nice
<DanielC> I use KAlarm, but that's not a calendar. It's just a reminder program.
<HedgeMage> DanielC: I haven't done it, but I think there's a way to attach to a wiki page, ask someone more wiki-literate
<DarkElf109> DanielC: For whatever wiki page you want to attach a page to, just add "?action=AttachFile" to the end of the URL
<DanielC> HedgeMage: I'm sure I'll find someone who knows. It'll take me a while to do anyways...
<DarkElf109> Or, on the drop-down box, select "attachments"
<DanielC> DarkElf109: thanks :)
<DarkElf109> =)
<DanielC> doh!
<DanielC> I didn't notice the drop down box.
<DarkElf109> Hehe
<DanielC> HedgeMage: I'll ask EmxBA to help with the artwork. He seems eager, and it's good to give eager people something to do and a little praise.
<DarkElf109> So...no ideas on mounting local media? I know there are ways to do it with the standard LTSP install, but I can't find any that specifically claim to work with Edubuntu
<DanielC> DarkElf109: Never tried really.
<DarkElf109> Hrm...is the HOTPLUG option in lts.conf recognized yet?
* DanielC can't find the page with that information
<DarkElf109> I forget where the wiki page is, and I know for a fact that it's outfdated =P
<DarkElf109> Well, I've gotta go eat, and I found some stuff on the LTSP wiki to try out...I'll let y'all know how it works out =)
<DarkElf109> Later
<DanielC> l8r
<HedgeMage> DanielC_zzz: cool... btw, do you have contact info for RobinShepard?  the email addy he/she gave me must have been typoed because I got my email back
<crimsun> Robin Shepheard robin.shepheard at swisp.co.uk   <-- ?
<HedgeMage> that's the one I have
<HedgeMage> :/
<HedgeMage> it bounced
<crimsun> ah, sorry, I don't know, then. I pulled that from the edubuntu-devel archive for this month.
<HedgeMage> yeah... I wonder if their ISP has my hosting provider blacklisted or something... we were temporarily blacklisted by a couple due to a mistake AOL made
<HedgeMage> (why anyone would rely on AOL's blacklist is beyond me)
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: you here ?
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: for some value thereof :)
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: what's up?
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: I have a freenode issue I need some help with. As I still don't have ops on #doomsday, I need a troublemaker kicked
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: can you do that sort of thing ?
<HedgeMage> yep, but I have to catch 'em in the act first
<HedgeMage> hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hi
<Amaranth> *grumble*
<Amaranth> fun broken code
* HedgeMage checks who's around
<pc22> how do i restore grub? all i have is dapper installer and livecd of hoary?
<mhz> pc22: what exactly do you wnat grub to do?
<pc22> reinstall grub
<pc22> reinstall grub to mbr
<mhz> pc22: hmmm
<mhz> IIRC, you do that by booting from dapper install.iso and start the process of installing (do not partition anything!) and pressing ESC in order to get you to a list of tasks to perform. Browse that list and get to Install GRUB
* mhz has not done it.. but he imagines that's the way
<mhz> Also, there should be lot of info in google and/or wiki.ubuntu.org
<pc22> i did
<pc22> all wont wont
<pc22> ill try your suggestion
<pygi> joy, ubuntu people can now try bonfire :)
<DanielC_zzz> kumbaya....
<DanielC> :)
<pygi> DanielC, hehe :)
<pygi> Now I can force everyone to try it :P
<pygi> DanielC, try it :P
<DanielC> try what?
<DanielC> Oh, there is an application called bonfire?
<pygi> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1158
<DanielC> *click*
<DanielC> What's DVD mastering?
<pygi> just burning :P
<DanielC> :P
<DanielC> That sounds boring. If you've seen one CD-burning program you've seen them all.
<pygi> DanielC, lies :P
<juliux> morning
<pygi> mornin' juliux :P
<Amaranth> I give up, my bayesian library can try to do log on negative numbers until morning.
<Amaranth> i'll make that my project to work on while i'm en route to omaha
<EmxBA> hi
<EmxBA> hi DanielC
<EmxBA> i got your mail
<EmxBA> can i private you?
<DanielC> HedgeMage: ping?
<DanielC> HedgeMage: EmxBA and I were wondering what's the usual copyright license for the Ubuntu wiki.
<EmxBA> GNU something, right?
<DanielC> We'll find out soon enough, no rush.
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> np
<juliux> DanielC, there was an email about the copyright licens for the ubuntu wiki
<DanielC> juliux: I didn't see it. What's the resolution?
<juliux> DanielC, i wil see if i have it on my computer
<DanielC> I think Ubuntu uses Creative Commons Attribution.
<juliux> DanielC, hm i cannt find the e-mail,
<DanielC> Ok. It's just good to use the same thing everyone else is using.
<DanielC> To avoid incompatibilities that nobody really means to have there.
<EmxBA> DanielC: please look at my artwork on http://85.92.241.245
<EmxBA> that's my current IP
<EmxBA> please understand that i use dialup :)
<DanielC> I've seen it. They're the same that you have on the wiki page.
<EmxBA> not the same
<EmxBA> similar but not the same :)
<DanielC> I can't see the difference :)
<juliux> EmxBA, i have an open ftp server for ubuntu stuff
<EmxBA> can i get some space on it, juliux
<juliux> EmxBA, so if you want you can upload your stuff there
<EmxBA> tnx
<EmxBA> can i private you
<EmxBA> ?
<juliux> EmxBA, query?
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> private=query 
<EmxBA> folks?
<EmxBA> go to http://ubuntu.juliux.de/stuff/emx/
<EmxBA> my images are there 
<DanielC> :)
<EmxBA> they are bigger than the old ones
<DanielC> Thanks juliux.
<EmxBA> i like this blue one
<juliux> you are welcome
<EmxBA> thanks julixu really
<EmxBA> till today i always had to run apache on my dialup connection :)
<EmxBA> *thanks juliux
<juliux> hehe
<EmxBA> do you like the pictures?
<juliux> the green one si nice
<EmxBA> yes
<EmxBA> and blue
<EmxBA> there is also glass and cubism
<EmxBA> ping all
<EmxBA> is there any edubuntu logo 
<EmxBA> maybe 1024x768
<EmxBA> i need very large logo
<Amaranth> i believe the logo itself is SVG
<Amaranth> so you could try to scale it up
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> but i am wondering where can i get only the logo, not the text
<EmxBA> just the orange circle
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> anyone else experiencing slow downloads fro the ubutnu servers
<mhz> cbx33: nope
<mhz> well,
<mhz> not tried
<lucasvo> cbx33: use bittorrent
<georg> Greetings from Austria! I'm just about to deploy edubuntu to a network in school (12 Clients), but i'm worring about running teachingsoftware (nativ-windows). Any experiences?
<lucasvo> georg: which software are you talking about? for example 3d software most likely won't run on linux
<georg> mostly software provided with schoolbooks
<DanielC> georg: Did you promise to anyone that that would work?
<georg> not yet :)
<DanielC> (running Windows software under Linux)
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> Better not to promise anything. Running Windows software under Linux is really hit or miss.
<DanielC> Edubuntu can be very useful without running Windows software.
<georg> Has anyone experince in "school-business"?
<DanielC> Not really. :(
<georg> teachers want the software provided with their books
<DanielC> Honestly I haven't tried to run Windows software with Edubuntu.
<DanielC> I see...
<DanielC> Well, that definitely makes sense, but might be tricky.
<georg> i thought of terminal sessions
<DanielC> I'm more worried about whether wine can run that software.
<DanielC> I expect it just comes down to what wine can do.
<georg> yup
<georg> the problem is that nobody can tell (but they want to know)
<DanielC> Do you have a copy of that software? Can you just try it?
<DanielC> As a teacher to lend you a book?
<DanielC> ask
<georg> i could test the software for this year, but everything could change next year
<georg> :(
<DanielC> That's a problem. Would the software at least be similar?
<DanielC> I wouldn't count on wine working.
<DanielC> It works well with some programs and is useless for others, and I couldn't predict for which programs it will work.
<georg> this IS the problem
<georg> any alternative to wine
<DanielC> Can you afford a copy of vmware or win4lin?
<georg> i thought of citrix,... running on M$
<georg> software installation should be very easy (for teachers!)
<georg> the best solution would be to buy only school-software running on linux (in my dreams :)
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> Can you afford vmware or win4lin though?
<DanielC> Are those viable options?
<georg> could be, if the price is resonable
<georg> but the usage of this classroom is about 4-8 hours per week
<georg> users age :6-10
<DanielC> Ok.
<georg> it should be rather cheap
<georg> i think i give wine a try
<DanielC> I haven't looked at Win4Lin in years, but last I checked it was affordable.
<DanielC> And Vmware expensive.
<DanielC> So, you can try wine as an ideal solution and keep win4lin as a fallback if wine doesn't work.
<georg> wish me luck :)
<DanielC> :)
<georg> thanks for talking, bye
<DanielC> bye
<pc22> im having a badtime restoring my grub, pls help
<EmxBA> hi everyone!
<pc22> yo
<EmxBA> :)
<DanielC> pc22: What's the problem with grub?
<pc22> i reinstalled xp now grub wont appear
* DanielC thinks
<DanielC> Trying to remember how to fix this...
<EmxBA> pc22: juts reinstall grub again with live cd or something similar
<EmxBA> xp installs ntldr into mbr
<DanielC> EmxBA: Yes, but how.
<EmxBA> ?
<DanielC> With lilo you just run the 'lilo' command.
<DanielC> With grub what do you do?
<EmxBA> just boot knoppix and edit menu.lst
<EmxBA> then grub-install
<DanielC> Well, menu.lst should be untouched, so it's just "grub-install" then.
<DanielC> Of course, you'd have to chroot first.
<pc22> yeah
<pc22> i dont know how to mount etc
<DanielC> Or you could copy the menu.lst from your partition onto the virtual operating system and run grub-install there.
<pc22> i need a step by step heheheh
<EmxBA> yes
<DanielC> pc22: sure, no problem.
<DanielC> pc22: Do you have the computer in front of you?
<DanielC> pc22: Step 1 is to boot from a Live CD.
<pc22> yea i have it here in my side
<DanielC> Now open a terminal.
<pc22> ok im using knoppix\
<DanielC> Become root.
<pc22> ok
<DanielC> Make a directory (mkdir ubuntu)
<pc22> then
<DanielC> Now, do you remember on which partition you installed Ubuntu? (e.g. /dev/hda1)
<pc22> hdc1
<DanielC> Ok:  mount /dev/hdc1 ubuntu
<DanielC> If you type "ls ubuntu" you should see your regular Ubuntu file system.
<DanielC> Ok, I'll assume that worked.
<DanielC> Then run: chroot ubuntu
<DanielC> At this point you are root in your Ubuntu system.
<DanielC> Run "grub-install".
<DanielC> Now you're done.
<pc22> it says hdc1 does not exist
<pc22> could it be hd0
<DanielC> Run "fdisk /dev/hdc"
<DanielC> press p to see a list of partitions on that disk.
<DanielC> hd0 can't be right, they are all of the form hd<letter><number>
<pc22> unable to open /dev/hdc
<DanielC> Try hda or hdb
<DanielC> hdc would be an unusual place for your operating system, hda is much more common.
<pc22> all unable
<DanielC> This is odd...
<DanielC> Are you *positive* you are root?
<DanielC> My guess is that you aren't.
<DanielC> Does the prompt have a # symbol or a $ sign?
<DanielC> # means root and $ means regular user.
<DanielC> Type "su" to become root.
<pc22> yeah im root with knoppix
<pc22> #
<DanielC> I don't know what to suggest.
<pc22> i guess i just have to reinstall 
<pc22> anyway thanks a lot
<DanielC> Sorry I couldn't help.
<pc22> i just jotted down the details
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> rodarvus: howdy!
<rodarvus> hooray :)
<cbx33> evenin all
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<jsgotangco> good evening
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey cbx33
<Yagisan> G'day HedgeMage
<Yagisan> thanks for babysitting the channel earlier
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<HedgeMage> hi Yagisan 
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> Yagisan: may I /msg you?
<cbx33> tried the recent gisomount?
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<cbx33> HedgeMage, was it something you said?
<HedgeMage> apparently :P
<EmxBA> hi again :)
<HedgeMage> hi EmxBA get my email?
<EmxBA> just a sec
<EmxBA> yes, I've seen it now
<EmxBA> i am curretly very busy with possible debconf7 in bosnia
<EmxBA> but i can arrange something
<EmxBA> anyway,  i can help
<HedgeMage> cool :)
<HedgeMage> just wanted to make sure you got it, had a problem with one of the other addresses it went to
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> emx@linux.org.ba is right
<HedgeMage> :)
<EmxBA> :)
<EmxBA> np
<lucasvo> anybody can offer a summer job in San Francisco, CA?
<EmxBA> i cannot
<EmxBA> i live in europe :)
<EmxBA> i think this image is old
<EmxBA> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Installation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=cdboot.png
<EmxBA> when i boot edubuntu cd i just get options "boot live cd" , "safe graphics..." and so..
<EmxBA> hehe
<EmxBA> you are idle, aren't you
<EmxBA> gotta go
<EmxBA> see ya
<EmxBA> !
<ubotu> EmxBA: Wish I knew. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
#edubuntu 2007-06-11
<andrupal> I'm setting up LTSP for the first time and I'm having login problems on the thin client.   The server auth logs suggest the session was begun, but the client screen just goes black, then shows an X, then returns to the login screen.  I've tried updating the SSH keys...does anyone know how to handle this?
<cliebow> andrupal..not sure..b ut i think ogra would direct you tyo .xseession-errors..
<andrupal> Can you translate that into newbiespeak?
<cliebow> err..i think in the homedir of the perdson logging in there maay be a file by that name
<cliebow> that any better?
<andrupal> It seems the user directory is empty...is this normal?
<cliebow> even with ls -al?
<andrupal> ah
<cliebow> check perms too
<andrupal> I see "no session managers, no window managers, etc...aborting"
<cliebow> is this a server install?
<cliebow> you DO need a gui desktop
<andrupal> yes, server install.
<andrupal> forcing myself to learn command line...painful
<cliebow> woud you like to use edubuntu ubuntu kubuntu desktop..icewm?
<cliebow> any preference?
<andrupal> No preference
<cliebow> this being edubuntu..why not sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop.
<andrupal> I'm actually using ubuntu with ltsp installed
<andrupal> this won't matter will it?
<cliebow> no..i have deubuntu ubuntu and xubuntu on one machine.i use interchangeably
<andrupal> so you've pointed me to a GUI for the server...that's helpful!
<cliebow> you will havt to check with ofgra to see if there are any server-side permutations to make
<cliebow> when starting from a server install
<cliebow> for localdevices and sound to work
<andrupal> So the reason xsessions weren't working was because I had no GUI installed on the server?
<cliebow> i aim to please \0_
<andrupal> Who is ofgra?
<cliebow> but im not always correct..someone usually corrects me
<cliebow> ogra put together aa lot of edubuntu
<andrupal> OK
<cliebow> with a little help from his friends
<cliebow> 8~)
<andrupal> Thanks for tolerating my ignorance...I'm two days into this world!
<andrupal> So I probably should have started with an edubuntu distro if I want to do LTSP in a snap?
<cliebow> welcome..i was there once meself
<cliebow> probably..but think what you will learn..
<cliebow> you'll have to be sure you have all services
<andrupal> Yes...aiming to set up a whole school on ltsp...so I need to know all the inner workings of it eventually...
<cliebow> dhcp..tftp...nfs-kernel-server...portmap
<cliebow> andrupal, look me up if you like..that is what i do..
<cliebow> and some of the things i say are true
<andrupal> How do I look you up?
<cliebow> here
<cliebow> or #ltsp
<cliebow> or cliebow at ltsp.org
<andrupal> OK...you're in Maine?
<cliebow> yeah
<andrupal> Beauty of a State.
<cliebow> im at scholl mon tiues wed
<cliebow> and on a bot thurs fri sat.
<andrupal> How is LTSP working out for you?
<cliebow> been great..Maine education is a mess..so im not progressing much
<andrupal> try New York City
<cliebow> yeah ill bet..
<andrupal> I'm with a new school startup...trying to get them on board before they go down the Windows road
<cliebow> if you are using "challenged client machines 4.2 is nice
<cliebow> but ltsp5 is coming on quick
<andrupal> Got to run...be back later.  Wish the wife were more tolerant of this hobby of mine...;)
<cliebow> heh,,..\
<cliebow> best'
<andrupal> cheers
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> So, I've completed about 1/2 the rewrite of ldm in C from python
<LaserJock> How's it going up north, eh?
<sbalneav> I'm logged in on it now.
<LaserJock> awesome
<sbalneav> Old ldm time on slow box: 40 seconds.
<sbalneav> new ldm time: instantaneous.
<LaserJock> really?
<sbalneav> as soon as X starts up you get the login.
<sbalneav> yep.
* sbalneav does happy dance.
<LaserJock> wow
<sbalneav> lots more work to do.  But it WORKS
<sbalneav> Plus, it scripts the password session.
<sbalneav> so, we'll be able to give error messages
<sbalneav> handle expired passwords,
<sbalneav> etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, sweet
<LaserJock> I'll be interesting to see the difference in lines of code
<LaserJock> I've heard, in general, python code is 5-10 times fewer lines of code
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/ldm-0.1/src$ wc *.c *.h
<sbalneav>    60   138  1105 greeter_iface.c
<sbalneav>   308   722  6768 ldm.c
<sbalneav>   228   584  4983 sshutils.c
<sbalneav>    43   101   896 ldm.h
<sbalneav>   639  1545 13752 total
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/ldm-0.1/src$
<sbalneav> I think the old ldm's about 150 lines.
<sbalneav> By the time I'm done, I'll be up around 1500 lines, methinks.
<LaserJock> yeah, so about 10 times
<LaserJock> interesting
<sbalneav> In Python, if you want to have a list, you just go l = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz'] 
<sbalneav> In C, youd have to alloc some mem, set up the pointers to the string, etc.
<sbalneav> If you want to ADD to the list in python, l.append('Foople')
<sbalneav> In C, that's a world of hurt
<sbalneav> realloc the space
<sbalneav> copy the stuff over,
<sbalneav> add the new one,
<sbalneav> etc.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I've been working on some C++
<LaserJock> and the memory/pointer stuff is killing me
<LaserJock> but it's pretty darn fast
<cliebow>  beam scottie up!
<crimsun> ehh, C++?
<LaserJock> yeah?
<crimsun> if you're using C++, just #include <list>
<crimsun> or do you mean any general structure containing strings?
<LaserJock> I mean, there's a lot more for me to think about in C++
<crimsun> yes, there's much more building of infrastructure, but it's more tolerable than C
<LaserJock> but that could be just because I don't really get programming
<crimsun> [in terms of rapidly getting something off the ground] 
<LaserJock> python lets me just do things
<crimsun> yes, that's why most people enjoy Python
<LaserJock> I keep reading C++ books, but it's still really difficult for me to read through real code
<crimsun> might be a shade easier if you understand some of the biggest differences between Python and C++
<crimsun> Python is much less procedural than C++
<LaserJock> I was considering taking a class or something at the uni
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that'd help if it's just the same stuff as in the books
<crimsun> depends how you're working through the books.
<LaserJock> probably
<LaserJock> I just read the thing and it makes sense
<crimsun> a typical C++ curriculum will pace you through syntax, data structures & algorithms, and so on
<LaserJock> but then if I read real application code it doesn't make a ton of sense
<crimsun> ah, I see.
<crimsun> I recommend you start with a diagramming course at the uni, then.
<crimsun> doesn't have to be programming-based, although that helps
<crimsun> some art departments have really good ones
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<crimsun> essentially, look at using visuals to create structure
<crimsun> then look at structures to create methods
<crimsun> methods have workflows
<crimsun> workflows have patterns
<crimsun> I don't know how strongly a visual person you are, but for some people it helps to see flowcharts, the programmatic extension being UML diagrams, etc.
<crimsun> a great many F/LOSS projects don't do this sort of documentation, unfortunately, but it's one of the first things we learned under Fred Brooks
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> I've not done UML diagrams before
<LaserJock> but I can see where that might help me out
<Meshezabeel> heya jbrefort
<jbrefort> hi Meshezabeel
<ltsp_homeserver> Hi, does anyne know if gigabit network for LTSP clients improves video framerate or are they still like slide shows ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i doubt it will improve anything
<Kamping_Kaiser> local video would hvae more impact
<ltsp_homeserver> Do you know any howto's about installing local video support?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
<RichEd> wet & rainy winter day in Cape Town ...
<RichEd> minor flooding ...
<RichEd> national public servant strike ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> is public service striking a good or bad thing?
* Kamping_Kaiser is wasting his public holiday, and is going to regret it this week
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: depends on teh public service
<juliux> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi juliux
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: hospitals, schools, police = some nurses on strike preventing other nurses from working, schools interrupting exams ... tear gas, rubber bullets ... fun for all ...
<RichEd> hi Burgundavia & juliux
<juliux> hey RichEd
<juliux> RichEd, did you still know the project linux4afrika?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, wow, they do it properly in your country.
<RichEd> juliux: yep ... the main guy spoke to me via email a while ago, then I put him on to willvdl, and then oliver told me last week there was a program on german TV with them recommending ubuntu ?
<juliux> RichEd, right
<juliux> RichEd, and the german tv want to make an extra broadcast with them
<juliux> RichEd, they want to show how they prepare there work in afrika in germany and then they want to show how it works in afrika
<RichEd> juliux: great ... what is the general "message" goodwill for assisting developement in Africa ?
<juliux> RichEd, they not only send hardware to afrika, they also explain the people how to work with them
<RichEd> willvdl: hey there ... see /msg for pasteback on the last few lines re linux4afrika
<RichEd> juliux: I wonder if they would consider including an insert / quote from Mark S ?
<juliux> RichEd, why not
<juliux> RichEd, the guy from the tv broadcaster is very friendly and helpful
<juliux> RichEd, he is also an ubuntu user and he visit us the last two years on most expos in germany
<RichEd> juliux: if you can get some contact details to me, perhaps we can sort out some contact with our PRO people ...
<willvdl> RichEd, hey. I'm also very curious to see what level of training they do
<RichEd> Mark is "newsworthy" and can add the spin that this sort of situation of need is exactly why he put together a free operating system for human beings
<juliux> RichEd, did you see the tv broadcast allready?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: so are we going to get everyone here on facebook? heh
<RichEd> juliux: no ... but ogra mentioned it in #canonical last week
<willvdl> jsgotangco, ew
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: heh, seems like people are doing a good job of adding themselves :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: but we could certaibly accelerate it
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I have yet to understand the point of facebook ... or myspace ...
<jsgotangco> social networks are an acquired taste but facebook has nifty apps
<willvdl> last.fm is the bomb
<jsgotangco> RichEd: why not ask JaneW? *grin*
* RichEd considers that myspace is a device to use up my firefox memory and slow my notebook down by loading the world's largest, most useless, and most insecure web pages
<RichEd> and by insecure, I do not mean security
<willvdl> but with such lovely backgrounds
<willvdl> and shiny buttons
* RichEd slaps willvdl with a wet facebook
<willvdl> RichEd, http://last.fm
<willvdl> it changed my life more than Compiz
<jsgotangco> haha
* RichEd fetches a quote for jsgotangco from a conversation with JaneW only last week:
<RichEd> "G-Jane: yep,  face book is the new crazy,  where you been dude?"
<RichEd> merriam: living in the real world thanks
<jsgotangco> yep she's right, have you seen her facebook profile?
<RichEd> s/me/merriam
<RichEd> ( sorry about the autocomplete )
<RichEd> jsgotangco: nope
<jsgotangco> i guess you haven't touched twitter or jaiku then?
* RichEd denies touching either of those people at any time
<jsgotangco> willvdl: there's a last.fm app in facebook lol
<willvdl> urk
<jsgotangco> it has 68,000+ users haha
<jsgotangco> "Last.fm Music turns your Facebook 'favorite music' into a radio station."
<willvdl> ew
<willvdl> last.fm is brilliant though. it's social networking with an actual purpose
<willvdl> they just need a better interface
<crimsun> I prefer pandora, but YMMV
<jsgotangco> sucks for us outside the USA
<willvdl> haha
* RichEd collection -> 30 mins
<rockprincess> hello all!
<SimonAnibal> howdy, rockprincess, how are you today?
<rockprincess> howdy Simon! I'm excellent indeed, how about yourself?
<rockprincess> i've got some good and some bad news...
<SimonAnibal> rockprincess, I'm doing well, what's your news?
<administrateur> Hi, I have some problems when printing from openoffice with duplex printer
<rockprincess> SimonAnibal: good news are that today kicked off my last week at school, so it's time to get some feedback, pupils filled out my feedback sheets and most them thought it was a very good idea installing edubuntu at school. the bad news is that last week i installed edubuntu locally on a few machines at school, (i installed edgy) and then upgraded to feisty....but obviously there was a machine who failed to get all updates, so
<rockprincess> i fetched them again today,...seemed to work quite well, and then when i restarted the gdm bootsplash was all cryptic with squares instead of letters....weird?!
<rockprincess> SimonAnibal: I tried a few things, such as installing the german language-pack-de and installing localeconf and reconfiguring it...
<mcksean> anybody out there?
<mcksean> are there significant stability or performance benefits to upgrading to 7.04 (I'm currently running the LTS version)?
<RichEd> hi mcksean : 7.04 is quite an advancement from LTS
<RichEd> There are some new applications, and LTSP is vastly improved in speed & functionality.
<mcksean> Hi RichEd -- sounds good --
<mcksean> RichEd -- have upgrades been successful for people? Or should I not bother and just do a clean install?
<mcksean> to anyone...have you found upgrades to be successful or would you recommend a backup of user dirs and just doing a clean install?
<willvdl> highvoltage, howdy
<wuzzy79> i installed the live boot onto a memory key, but i am having a hard time setting it boot only to run level 3, any ideas how i can get this done?
<willvdl> okie. outa here. see you tomorrow
#edubuntu 2007-06-12
<smckay> are upgrades pretty solid from LTS to 7.04?
<Burgundavia> smckay: that is not a supported upgrade path
<Burgundavia> you need to go 6.06 --> 6.10 --> 7.04
<smckay> probably a better idea to backup data (there's not much of it) in student accounts and then do a clean install of 7.04....?
<Burgundavia> how many students?
<Burgundavia> also remember that 7.04 is not an LTS release
<smckay> around 15-20 students....
<smckay> yes regarding LTS release --
<smckay> do you think an upgrade to 7.04 is worthwhile, ie, is performance and features enough of an improvement to justify an upgrade?
<Burgundavia> the next one is probably going to be 8.04
<Burgundavia> there are plenty of new features in 7.04
<smckay> ok, well, sounds like I should do some reading...thanks Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> no worries
<smckay> cya
<smckay> burgundavia: I just reviewed the list of new features and it seems as if the upgrade is worth it for faster LTSP booting/support + better audio support
<smckay> burgundavia: I'm pretty sure that our kids don't have audio right now so this would be a major plus for them...
<smckay> exit
<DShepherd> is there any major difference between the desktop version and the server version of edubuntu?
<DShepherd> does the desktop just = live cd?
<jsgotangco> the desktop doesn't install ltsp
<DShepherd> ok
<sbalneav> Evening all
<RichEd> hi ogra ...
<RichEd> & juliux
<RichEd> ogra: remember the US librarian video that mark showed at Sevilla ? well it seems to have spread some ripples:
<RichEd> I've got this request: Kathy Ishizuka : School Library Journal - Our lead story is a review of Edubuntu. We'd like to include a couple related high-res photos--beyond the logo--if there's been any published among the users group, or if you might have a suitable image, please let us know.
<juliux> hi RichEd
<sbalneav> Morning all
<willvdl> scotty
<dmb> :)
<john_s> Hi all,
<john_s> I was wondering if anyone had been having trouble with edubuntu being unstable
<john_s> I was running 7.04 and it just tanked
<john_s> I am reinstalling now, but I am a little bummed out about that
<john_s> maybe its not production stuff yet
<john_s> anyway, I was hoping someone could point me at the edubuntu bugtracker
<john_s> I want to see if others are experiencing problems
<stgraber> john_s: the tracker for the whole Ubuntu project is Launchpad
<stgraber> https://launchpad.net
<john_s> thanks
<john_s> hmm possibly a known bug
<john_s> well, try, try again, I suppose
#edubuntu 2007-06-13
<effie_jayx> hey all
<effie_jayx> is edubuntu somwhow lighter that ubuntu?
<stgraber> nope
<effie_jayx> I installed on a pentium II and pentium I as desktops and they run great?... how I couldn't install ubuntu is still a mistery to me
<stgraber> it's also based on Gnome, only the set of software is different (and artwork)
<stgraber> if you want something lighter than Ubuntu/Edubuntu you may want to have a look at Xubuntu
<effie_jayx> stgraber,  xubuntu install cd didn't boot
<effie_jayx> the edubuntu cd booted and installed ... on two gateways... a gateway 2000 desktop (pentium I and 256 ram)... and pentium II gateway E-2300 and 196 ram
<effie_jayx> I am in shock
<effie_jayx> I had prepared myself for mini cd install ...
<borg7_> I have a 2 NIC LTSP setup I just installed dansguardian.  When I try to boot up a client it gets DHCP but it doesn't pull from TFTP. Any thoughts?
<tuxus> hi.. I'd like to install edubuntu on my main system and run all the kids comps off it through ltsp. I do have a couple of questions, and was hoping I'd get some answers here
<tuxus> My firewall is a Smoothwall box (smoothwall.org) which also acts as my dhcp server. Can I keep it that way if I give all the pc's on the network static IP's or MUST I relinquish the dhcp server status to the Edubuntu server?
<tuxus> Also, I haven't seen much documentation on (network) printing. Can anyone point me in the right direction for information on that?
<tuxus> (g2g now, but I'll check back later for any feedback.)
<effie_jayx> hey guys...
<effie_jayx> whats the equivalent of the alternate install for feisty in edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> effie_jayx: the main edubuntu cd itself is alternate since its a server install from the start
<jsgotangco> the other cd is desktop
<effie_jayx> OK
<effie_jayx> server install
<effie_jayx> got it
<jsgotangco> (it installs LTSP by default)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<borg7_> evening
<jsgotangco> hi
<borg7_> I have a 2 NIC LTSP setup I just installed dansguardian.  When I try to boot up a client it gets DHCP but it doesn't pull from TFTP. Any thoughts?
<sbalneav> borg7_: So, you have the terminals hanging off a separate nic on the server?
<borg7_> correct
<sbalneav> What does it say with the tftp? File not found, etc?
<borg7_> negative... it trys but times out
<borg7_> It just notates that tftp times out
<borg7_> The PXE client does get DHCP from the server
<sbalneav> netstat -an | grep :69
<sbalneav> what does that return?
<borg7_> one sec... having trouble w/ vnc and ssh brb to let you know
<borg7_> it says 0.0.0.0 :69
<sbalneav> Which version of edubuntu are you running?
<borg7_> fiesty
<sbalneav> Might want to do an ltsp-update-kernels
<borg7_> i've got that covered
<borg7_> updated it twice
<sbalneav> what does your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file look like?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<borg7_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25371/
<sbalneav> Seems standard.
<sbalneav> What are the addresses of the two interfaces?
<borg7_> eth0 - ltsp side - 192.168.0.1
<borg7_> eth1 - internet side - 192.168.1.105
<sbalneav> ok, lets do this:
<sbalneav> sudo invoke-rc.d openbsd-inetd restatr
<sbalneav> err restart
<borg7_> sbalneav: If I turn off dansguardian I can get the client to boot pxe
<borg7_> dansguardian is the issue
<borg7_> it seems
<sbalneav> I have no idea what dansguardian is.
<borg7_> a web content filter
<sbalneav> Well, I'd say if a web content filter is mucking up your tftp server, there's a problem with that package :)
<sbalneav> Does it do some kind of iptables filtering?
<borg7_> http://dansguardian.org/
<sbalneav> If so, you'll need to get it to stop filtering udp:69
<borg7_> ok
<borg7_> i'll look around the config files for a bit
<sbalneav> iptables -L with it on should show you what it's blocking
<sbalneav> be right back
<sbalneav> back
<tuxus> sbalneav: "just" the man who can answer my question..
* sbalneav waits patiently for the question.
<tuxus> My firewall is a Smoothwall box (smoothwall.org) which also acts as my dhcp server. Can I keep it that way if I give all the pc's on the network static IP's or MUST I relinquish the dhcp server status to the Edubuntu server? Also, I haven't seen much documentation on (network) printing -perhaps because I haven't looked hard enough.. Is printer sharing a fairly straight forward setup?
<tuxus> sbalneav: we've "met" earlier today, when I was wpgmb :o)
<sbalneav> Are you statically assigning IP addresses on the smoothwall box?
<tuxus> so far I have been, yes. Easier to control/monitor kids - ahum, other users' - activities
<sbalneav> You'll then have to statically assign IP addresses on the edubuntu server too, you'll have to modify /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<sbalneav> you can have two STATIC dhcpd servers on the same segment, as they'll just ignore addresses they dont know about, so they won't trip over each other
<sbalneav> however, you can't have two DYNAMIC dhcpd servers on the same segment.
<sbalneav> As for the printer sharing, is it a jetdirect network printer?
<tuxus> Have several oldies-but-goodies... LaserJet III and II and IIP's
<tuxus> so, no - not with a etherjet or something module
<sbalneav> So, you can just hang it off the server.  All the ltsp clients will see it just fine.
<tuxus> (or was etherjet IBM's baby? forgot..)
<sbalneav> hp's
<tuxus> cool
<tuxus> thing is... my server, and probably my main workstation at the same time, will be locked in my office, while the other units are dispersed over 1st and 2nd floor. Can I hang a printer off one of the clients, that can be shared that way?
<sbalneav> Hmmm, we've got usb printers going, but not // printers yet.
<sbalneav> get a usb -> // printer cable, should work fine.
<tuxus> okay.. what about a parallel to usb adapter?
<tuxus> ok. Next: cd/dvd burner "sharing".. If I don't want to invest in burners for everyone, can I have one burner/floor and share it amongst clients?
<tuxus> (provided they learn to burn thru cli over network)
<sbalneav> We don't have any support for burning.
<sbalneav> reading yes, and memory sticks and floppies.
<tuxus> Ok. So, in order to burn a clients' mp3 directory, I could either 1]  ssh into the server, or 2]  be at the server, and simply access their /home?
<sbalneav> yep
<tuxus> I had that notion. Great.
<tuxus> Next: (desktop) personalization.. possible, enabled by default, not possible?
<sbalneav> Each userid's got it's own home dir, so backgrounds, themes, sounds, etc.  all are tied to the userid
<sbalneav> whichever user logs into whatever terminal, that's what they get.
<tuxus> What about a shared directory? Can I create a group with a directory for that group, and make all users part of that group?
<sbalneav> yep
<sbalneav> That;s what we have at Legalaid.
<tuxus> (hmmm. there's GOTTA be something ltsp can't do.. lol )
<sbalneav> Well, the cd burning :)
<borg7_> sbalneav: I don't think the tftp server in feisty is running on port 69... possibly port 640...
<borg7_> when i did a netstat -an it said pretty much all of the udp ports were 0.0.0.0
<tuxus> ok - how about THIS one... can I set a time-out on a session, so it logs off after x minutes of idle time?
<borg7_> (that's w/ dansguardian turned on)
<sbalneav> That 0.0.0.0 means they listen from anywhere.
<sbalneav> and yes, it is on 69, unless dansguardian, or you, have moved it.
<sbalneav> tuxus: No, not a log off, but you can get it to lock.
<borg7_> it establishes 2 tcp connections with the client... but port 640 doesn't establish w/ dansguardian turned on
<borg7_> ... config files were no help
<sbalneav> 640 isn't a standard port listed in /etc/services.
<borg7_> hmm
<tuxus> Sbalneav. ok. that's pretty much default for a "regualar" desktop
<tuxus> I've read in a forum that one person said he was told having two nics in the server is better. Why would that be?
<tuxus> (Edubuntu server running ltsp, that is)
<sbalneav> Well, it puts all the ltsp traffic on it's own nic, and won't interfere with an existing dhcpd server.
<tuxus> so - My smoothwall would come in the server at eht0, and the ltsp would hang off eht1, going to the switch?
<sbalneav> yep
<tuxus> could you use a Cisco 1604 ISDN router? Have one collecting dust.. (came in a box @ garage sale, with documentation)
<tuxus> free, ofcourse
<sbalneav> I suppose, you'd need an isdn line.
<sbalneav> Last time I checked, those were about $259/month
<tuxus> .. oh yeah... and the proper AC adapter might help too  :o)
<tuxus> want it - it's yours.
<sbalneav> Heh, nah, thanks for the offer, though.
<tuxus> also have two internal 100Mb Zip's... boy, time flies...
<tuxus> anywhoo.. d/l the discs this PM; I figured I won't have time in the near future to swing by your office
<tuxus> (yawn) g2g  - If ("if" - who am I kidding) I have any other questions, I'll look here for you. Thanks to all, and to all a good-night!
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> You know where to find me
<sbalneav> ogra:
<sbalneav> ping
<sbalneav> Evening Corey
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<borg7_> got it working sbalneav!
<sbalneav> borg7_: what was it?
<borg7_> I d/led a script that installed dansguardian... but come to find out it installed a few other packages also... tinyproxy, clamav, firehol
<borg7_> firehol is an easy to use iptable package
<borg7_> it blocked access to the tftp
<borg7_> so i allowed it... yippee
<borg7_> thanks for the direction... i'm in need of sleep so goodnighty
<jsgotangco> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
<willvdl> anyone know how to find out a device's UUID?
<ogra> use vol_id
<highvoltage> willvdl: did you also get a message from Rolf Backstrom from Mosambique?
<willvdl> highvoltage, in email or phone?
<willvdl> I haven't received any that I know of
<highvoltage> willvdl: email, about a week back
<willvdl> ogra, thanks. this mount by UUID is a bit annoying
<highvoltage> willvdl: I mean 2 days ago
<ogra> willvdl, well, UUIDs dont change ... device names do nowadays
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'll forward to you /RicheEd
<willvdl> highvoltage, not that I recall
<crimsun> ogra: hi, I handled the alsa-plugins merge while you were away (pinged you two days ago)
<ogra> crimsun, thats fine ... just go ahead with such stuff, no need to ask me for permission ;)
<willvdl> ogra, I realise that but since the upgrade it has mangled my UUIDs and now my devices are /sda* making it rather tricky to mount my drives since I can't find them
<crimsun> ogra: if you feel that the inclusion of the a52 alsa-lib plugin (which grows libasound2-plugin's dependencies by ~2 MB, taking up extra space on the CD), then I can disable it
<ogra> nah, thats fine
<crimsun> ok.
<ogra> space is not an issue for us anymore (on the server CD at least, the desktop CD has no ltsp bits, so no asound modules)
<crimsun> ah, ok.
<willvdl> darn, seems the only way to discover the partition label, UUID and device is to run a partitioner
<RichEd> hi ... how many people do we have for the edubuntu meeting ?
<RichEd> (ogra is away to sweden)
<ogra> RichEd, ?
<ogra> in july, no ?
<RichEd> ogra: sweden ... we spoke about that last week ...
* ogra checks
<ogra> URGH !!!
<RichEd> nope tomorrow ...
<ogra> i was convinced thats for july , oh crap ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> meeting?
<RichEd> oops ... you did not respond to a ping yesterday so I thought you were on the road
* ogra hangs his head in shame
<RichEd> how long does it take to get there from Germany ?
<ogra> no idea, i have to check if there are still flight options
<RichEd> any chance of getting there at all ? even if you are late ?
<RichEd> can you have a quick look ?
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> ta
<ogra> there is a flight on thursday afternoon
<ogra> and a return on monday
<ogra> ah, no also a return on sunday, just more expensive
<RichEd> when would you get there ... thursday evening ?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> 16:00 but on a different airport than the mail said
<ogra> so it might be 1h extra for taxi riding
<RichEd> can you see if you can book ? and we'll just move the moodle stuff to friday ... i'll sort out the agenda with anestis
<ogra> ok
<RichEd> get that going ... we can wait with the meeting for a bit ... and keep it short so you can get organised
<RichEd> apologies from me if I was any part of the confusion re months ... it just crept up on us I think.
<ogra> RichEd, no, thats my fault i was to much distracted due to coding the last days and didnt pay enough attention
<RichEd> hello highvoltage ...
<RichEd> meeting delayed for a bit ... ogra has to make a quick urgent flight booking
<ogra> if the webserver would like me :/ grmbl
* Kamping_Kaiser smacks dapper's dhcpd
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, what meeting?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: isn't it the weekly edubuntu meeting slot ... or do i have times mixed up
* RichEd checks the fridge
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i have no idea. workign full time has scrambled my brain
<stgraber> hey
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<RichEd> hi stgraber
<ogra> ok, got it
<RichEd> good ...
<RichEd> shall we move to the meeting room ?
<Solifugus> Is it true that Edubuntu automatically starts serving DHCP anonymously by default, on boot?
<Solifugus> This is a very stupid thing to make default.
<Solifugus> And I just got in a lot of trouble for it.
<SimonAnibal> Ummm, maybe if you're running it in server mode
<SimonAnibal> and have the side that's supposed to be pointing at your thin-clients out towards the network at large
<SimonAnibal> I've never had a problem with Ed/K/Ubuntu serving DHCP unwanted
<Solifugus> Yes.. I installed this for a lab, but didn't have time to stick around and configure it.
<SimonAnibal> do you have two network interfaces on it?
<Solifugus> Yes.. of course.. one for internal lab and the other for the larger network and internet
<SimonAnibal> on for your thin-client network and one pointing out towards the rest of the network?
<Solifugus> Yes.. of course
<SimonAnibal> Well, if you have the right cables plugged into the right interfaces, Edubuntu shouldn't server DHCP outwards
<Solifugus> And--I read carefully to ensure that I was specifying the correct ethernet for the right thing...
<SimonAnibal> On the other hand, it must server DHCP inwards
<ball> SimonAnibal: the X terminals get their IP addresses (and kernel name?) from the server?
<Solifugus> Yes.. but anonymously by default?
<Solifugus> Should be by mac address
<SimonAnibal> anonymously? I don't understand
<SimonAnibal> DHCP servers can't really be anonymous, they respond to every DHCP request
<Solifugus> dhcp should be served by mac address to each client
<Solifugus> it sounds like its just giving addresses to any machine that asks for one
<SimonAnibal> that's DHCP's job
<Solifugus> that's one way to set it up.. but not a safe way...  not generally recommendable..
<SimonAnibal> by default, ALL DHCP servers serve IP addresses to anyone that asks
<Solifugus> no..
<SimonAnibal> I've never seen a DHCP server NOT do that
<SimonAnibal> And I've been a network administrator for several years now
<Solifugus> that's a very bad idea for a default dhcp config
<ball> So, do I tell Edubuntu server the MAC address of each X terminal?
<Solifugus> Yes... by default.
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, why use DHCP if you have to go through the trouble of setting up each computer's IP. Just use manual
<ball> SimonAnibal: so that each terminal can run an identical image would be my guess
<SimonAnibal> Why have a DHCP server at all if you don't want it to hand out IP addresses?
<ball> (assuming they're identical machines)
<ball> s/image/ROM image/
<Solifugus> SimonAnibal: several reasons... (1) so you know what machine has what address and that cannot get messed up. (2) so you don't have to configure this on the client...  (3) for security.. so you know who's allowed on your network and thus who isn't
<SimonAnibal> *shrug* I don't know much about how LTSP works
<ball> Does edubuntu include a TFTP server, for handing out kernels to the terminals?
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, that is an interesting perspective, though I must admit I'd never heard of it. If someone were to be connected enough on your network to even request a DHCP lease, though, denying them an IP isn't going to keep them from looking around
<SimonAnibal> They can just manually set one up and go to town
<Solifugus> Also.. LTSP uses NFS to mount a system image.. and NFS requires a name for each IP address (don't know why)... That's easier to control if you issue IPs by mac address.. you just just name them in /etc/hosts
<SimonAnibal> Well, I can't speak for LTSP. I only know how I've seen DHCP used, and it's always been to make networking easier, not secure
<Solifugus> ball: LTSP uses TFTP to pass the kernel and some initial startup that than uses NFS to mount /
<SimonAnibal> security should be in place well before the point where someone could ask for DHCP
<SimonAnibal> Anyhow, I'm out. Have a great evening!
<Solifugus> SimonAnibal: It is (or should be) common sense... security is in everything.. this is just one aspect.
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, Common sense to some, maybe. Not common sense to me, though.
<ball> Is / mounted read-only?
<Solifugus> sometimes you do want to give IP addresses out anonymously... in certain ranges.. for laptops, for example.. but knowing what limited ranges you allow them in, enables you to control what they have access to/thru at other points.
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, I can see why you would want to do it the way you are speaking about. However, making that a default would mean expecting that every single person wants it that way, wants to spend all the time required to make that useful, and knows how to do that
<ball> Solifugus: as has been pointed out though, someone could just set their own IP address.
<Solifugus> ball: LTSP mounts it read/only by default... to run X so you can then remote into the server via X and access its regular accounts.
<SimonAnibal> I think it's more reasonable to make the default the easiest and most immediately useful state, and expect that anyone that has a pre-conceived idea of what they want DHCP to do knows how to make it do that
<Solifugus> ball: Yes they could.. But only you know what mac addresses should have what IPs and therefore who is legitimate.
<Solifugus> and you can find the rogues
<Solifugus> or disallow them access to what you wish
<Solifugus> otherwise.. your network might as well be open to the world
<ball> Hello Burgundavia
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, :-/ it would have to be open to the world for me to consider your model worthwhile
<ball> Solifugus: provided someone can physically get to a jack, it pretty much is.
<Burgundavia> hey ball
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, *shrug* to each their own, the default works just the way I expect and want it to. Anything else sounds like too much work for not much added benefit.
<SimonAnibal> Solifugus, Have a great evening!
<Solifugus> SimonAnibal: Sure.. if there will be a dangerous default like that, it should at least be clearly warned about...
<Solifugus> this is a serious bug in edubuntu
<ball> What is a bug?
<ball> That it comes with a DHCP server?
<Solifugus> That it is configured with a dangerous default.. without clear warning.
<ball> What is the dangerous default?
<ball> Does it hand out IP addresses to all who ask?
<ball> ...or hand out IP addresses on the wrong interface?
<ball> hello racter
<racter> heyall
<ball> racter: are you in Illinois?
<racter> yep
<racter> chicago
<racter> you?
<ball> Kankakee at present.
<ball> (work in Kankakee)
<ball> Do you use Edubuntu in Chicago?
<racter> yeah i'm running a community lab & we use it in a thin client setup (http://dai5ychain.net/)
#edubuntu 2007-06-14
<ball> Interesting
<ball> What kind of community is it?
<Solifugus> ball... honestly.. it should be clearer about what interface it is asking for during installation... and it should not, by default, hand out dhcp to any device that asks.. and, honestly, these services shouldn't be on by default...  It gives linux a bad name when a simple mistake can cause so much damage.
<Solifugus> to a network..
<Solifugus> I just suggesting a few default changes for safety and security...
<ball> Solifugus: ah, okay.
<ball> I would have thought it was important to make clear which interface was for the terminal network and which for the outside world.
<ball> racter: are you building a mesh network too?
<racter> ball: it's just a neighborhood lab on the near south side (pilsen which is a mostly latin(o|a) neighborhood)
<racter> ball: yeah!  sort of.
<racter> trying to get it going again but it's been hard to organize ;)
<ball> racter: have you looked at what they're doing in Urbana, or at smesh.org ?
<ball> Ah, I see links to CUwin
<ball> ...that answers that question
<racter> ya the urbana stuff is an important model for us - but i don't know smesh
<racter> but checking it out now :)
<ball> hello jgedeon
<jgedeon> Hello ball.
<ball> It's nice that mesh routers are available off-the-shelf now (I'm looking at the linked Meraki stuff)
<racter> yeah that stuff looks really cool
<racter> & cheap
<ball> racter: that's a big attraction.  I wonder how proprietary it is though.
<ball> ...could probably do the same thing in a more extensible way using Linksys wireless routers.
<ball> hello kleinmat, n2diy
<racter> ball - ya true, or recycled pc's with cuwin software
<n2diy> hi ball
* ball nods
<ball> racter: of course, it's harder to persuade people to put an IBM 5170 on their window sill ;-)
<ball> Isn't Pilson where they have the big May 5th party?
<racter> ya there are a lot of big parties down here ;)
<ball> I have to go to lunch now.  Hopefully back in about half an hour.
<ball> hello bronze
<ball> racter: may I PM you?
<andrew____> I'm early on the Linux learning curve seeking to build a school network.  So far I've got thin client authentication working.  Can someone confirm that Ubuntu has the ability to do "thick" client authenticatiion comparable to an MS Windows environment.
<ball> hello andrew____
<andrew____> Howdy
<ball> Are your "thin clients" really X terminals?
<ball> Will your "thick clients" be PCs running the "Desktop" edition of Edubuntu?
<andrew____> The thin client I have set up to test with is an X terminal, though I could just as easily run desktop on it, if it helps performance.
<ball> I think the choice is probably less about performance and more about ease of management
<ball> (with the thin client setup, you have one Linux machine to manage instead of a roomful)
<ball> ...you could also do away with hard disks and things if that's convenient or desirable)
<ball> (if I'm reading the Web page correctly)
<andrew____> Thin clients are a snap to manage. I get this...but we're also likely to be investing in Laptops because of portability...I want to keep the school on the same platform, largely, but not every machine will be a thin client.
<andrew____> Can ubuntu run authentication for the non thin clients on the same userbase as the thin client server.
* ball shrugs.  I would be surprised if it couldn't, but I don't know what directory service they use.
<ball> Thing about laptops is, they get lost, stolen and/or broken.
<andrew____> Well, I'm seeing LDAP and NFS in different places, but it doesn't look user friendly at all.
<ball> ...they seem like ideal candidates.
<ball> (to be X terminals)
<andrew____> Yes, but don't you need a gigabit network if you're running more than a dozen X terminals?
<andrew____> Wireless doesn't have those speeds, right?
<andrew____> The cards in the Dells our school is considering are 54 MB/s...how would this affect performance?
<ball> andrew____: I'm not sure you need gigabit... I would probably use a gigabit link to the server and 100baseTX to each workstation
<ball> How many of the terminals would be wireless?
<andrew____> For now, 15 out of 70.
<ball> Might be worth running separate Linux installs then, despite the management headache.
<andrew____> But you can't buy laptops without hard drives, can you?
<ball> The edubuntu people can probably give you a more clear idea of what the practical limits are.
<andrew____> But what's the authentication protocol?
<ball> andrew____: probably not, sadly.
<andrew____> I'm trying to decide whether Ubuntu has enough "enterprise level" tools to actually run a larger network.
<ball> andrew____: I don't know what they use.
<ball> Kerberos?
<ball> I'm not keen on Ubuntu, but edubuntu is an interesting project.
<ball> perhaps "product" is the word there.
<ball> There's enough people in the channel that you'd think there'd be someone around in a position to advise.
<andrew____> I'll keep poking my head in and asking.
<ball> ok
<andrew____> thanks for your two cents.
<ball> I'm not sure it was worth that much ;-)
<ball> My idea of using gigabit uplink to the server and 100baseTX to the terminals is so that no one terminal can choke the connection to the server.
<ball> I'm interested in knowing what people here think of that.
<ball> Suppose the logic breaks down above about eight terminals though ;-)
<andrew____> I'm thinking of how a building is plumbed, and your concept seems good by analogy.
<andrew____> I'm not sure water and data packets enjoy the same physics, though...
<andrew____> If a switch is 1000B/s on one side and 100B/s on the other, doesn'
<ball> I'm told a decent switch will buffer the frames appropriately.
<andrew____> doesn't that make the whole network 100?
<ball> No, it shouldn't.
<ball> (unless your switch is really broken)
<andrew____> Hmmm that's good to know.
<andrew____> I was thinking in terms of frequency transmission.  An AM tuner can't decipher FM signals...but I guess a switch is set up to autodetect...
<ball> If I had a large network to build (I don't, mine are all small), I'd extend the concept to craft a non-blocking (or at least a less-blocking) network
<ball> AM and FM are different animals to 1000baseT and 100baseTX
<ball> (a switch buffers the frames)
<andrew____> A frame is a packet of digital info set to a carrier frequency, no?
<andrew____> Perhaps I'm sorely miscomprehending network data transmission.
<ball> Yes, you're talking about radio (which I understand)
<ball> Ethernet (at least the kind we're talking about) is baseband, no carrier involved.
<ball> Suppose you had an AM receiver, a mag tape loop and an FM transmitter
<ball> ...that's your ethernet switch ;-)
<ball> It receives, stores and then forwards.
<ball> (bad analogy, but it fits your description)
<andrew____> Baseband means what, that the 0s and 1s are arriving at whatever frequency they arrive at? There's no uniformity to their transmission?
<ball> No, you're describing asynchronous transmission there.
<ball> forget frequency.
<ball> Your AM and FM analogy made me think of radio, where the information is modulated onto a radio frequency carrier
<ball> 100baseTX and 1000baseT don't use a carrier like that, so the AM/FM thing is only good as a (very) loose analogy
<ball> It's best avoided because there are networks where they're used in the literal sense.
<ball> (but not usually wired local area networks)
<ball> baseband means "with no carrier"
<ball> broadband (used to) mean(s) with an RF carrier
<andrew____> I'm just trying to imagine what's actually occurring, in terms of voltage, in those 8 wires.  You referred to a "frame"...which I assume is a packet that is enclosed in some kind of marker...
* ball shudders
<ball> andrew____: yes, a frame is an Ethernet "packet"
<ball> inside your frames (perhaps broken up) are IP datagrams ("Internet packets")
<ball> frame and datagram are less ambiguous terms.
<ball> Someone says "packet" to me, I have to figure out what they mean by the context of the conversation.
<andrew____> So these arrive and get stored in the RAM of the switch, and then re-transmitted.
<ball> Probably not in ordinary RAM, more likely in a shift register inside a chip inside the switch
<ball> (sane people try not to think too much about that ;-)
<andrew____> And bottlenecks occur when the switch can accept all the new packets that are arriving?
<andrew____> can't, rather
<andrew____> I'm a physics teacher, insane by creed.
<ball> Modern switches are apparently able to ask the device at the other end of a cable to stop sending (some kind of flow control).  I don't know the details.  One of the nice things about Ethernet (and especially IP) is that if things get too clogged up, the switch has the option of simply discarding frames.
<ball> Do you know about the ISO 7-layer model?
<ball> ISO OSI.
<andrew____> No
<andrew____> I've seen it in spec, but just glossed over it.
<ball> first hit: http://networking.ringofsaturn.com/Protocols/sevenlayer.php
<ball> I haven't read that, so I don't know how poorly it's written
<ball> Basic theory is that there are layers... at the bottom you have the hardware itself and the voltages that physics teachers love.
<ball> Above that you have framing and all the nice Ethernet stuff
<ball> Above that you have the network layer, which is where IP lives.
<andrew____> That looks great!  I've got it bookmarked
<ball> I have to do a lab science as part of my degree.  If I were not mathematically challenged, physics might be fun.
<ball> Oh well, I'll have to take tree-hugging or something.
<ball> "Astronomy without maths"
<andrew____> You're a CS major?
<ball> Another 7-layer link: http://pablotron.org/download/7_layer_burrito.html
<ball> I.T, because C.S. implies Maths.
<ball> ...and maths is numbers >1
<ball> (== scary)
<andrew____> Think about all the scary numbers in between zero and one....
<andrew____> ;)
<andrew____> With some division, you could get all the other numbers.
<ball> Sorry, I only work with integers
<andrew____> Good 4 u
<andrew____> Hey, it's been interesting...thanks for the tips on network protocols...I've got a long way to go!
<andrew____> To each his scary, abstract fancy.
<andrew____> I've got to sleep so my students don't eat me for breakfast.
<ball> Sleep well
<andrew____> cheers
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ball> hello sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello
<ball> brb
<ball> Oh well, I'm going home.
<ball> Goodbye silent readers.
<bligoes> hallo all
<johnsoncls> i am new django how to configure apache2 to create a site
<RichEd> ogra: ping
<ogra> hey :/
<ogra> what a wasted day
<RichEd> damn shame :(
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> i've phoned anestis but he is on voicemail ...
<ogra> i had two trains t chhose from ... and i even took the one that went earlier ...
<RichEd> i'm looking at the agenda to see what we can do online tomorrow
<ogra> but that still didnt help :/
<RichEd> i'll get back to you via email ... in the meanwhile can you look again at hosting options ?
<ogra> (that one left me a 1.5h buffer .... which i lost due to their construction crap)
<RichEd> anestis said you can use a provide outside of the UK if it is cheaper
<RichEd> *provider
<ogra> i thought we did that already ... iirc heno recommended something to us we wanted to book
<ogra> but i'll dig my mail
<RichEd> thanks ...
<RichEd> will it be faily easy to install moodle remotely ?
<RichEd> *fairly
<jsgotangco> yes
<RichEd> jsgotangco: thanks :)
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> but it would be preferable to have it on ubuntu indeed :)
<RichEd> ogra: I'll check out the latest moodle specs / features and 3rd pary options and give them a report on what we have, and what is being developed by other people and what else is still needed according to the "wishlist"
<ogra> so finding the right provider that offers us full ubuntu support is the tricky bit ;)
<jsgotangco> right
<RichEd> it does not have to be on ubuntu immediately ... we can port it later, but it will be good to find someone who will host a box for us with our choice of operating system
<ogra> RichEd, i talked to the moodle business dept. at linuxtag for nearly 1h ... not much outcome there (tie guys) but we should mentin te contact
<ogra> RichEd, porting the data over from an ancient version (which is what i'll get on other distros) is a lot of work i'd like to avoid
<RichEd> okay ... and we should also look at the calendar for moodle moots (I think they call their meetings that) in local areas of the partners
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i think we should propbably start pushing for LoCo based support teams here as well, as soon as we ship moodle by default
* RichEd nods
<jsgotangco> !
<jsgotangco> moodle by default is fantastic!
* RichEd collection -> 30 mins
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> hey hey
<sbalneav> Hey!
<sbalneav> In Sweden?
<ogra> nope
<RichEd> hi ogra ... kalle keeps popping in and out
<ogra> oh, where ?
<RichEd> Trying to get the message to him ... I've aked the hotel to pass it on to Anestis tonight.
<ogra> antoniou talked to me
<RichEd> ogra: * kalle (n=kalle@surfburk.ludvika.se) has joined #edubuntu
<ogra> and with him anestis
<ogra> ah
<bddebian> Heya
<Jalex> I am having a problem and am getting no good advice about the solution. I upgraded to 7.04 this week and my server
<Jalex> will not boot : "RAMDISK: ran out of compressed data"
<Jalex> Kernel Panic
<Jalex> Any Ideas?
<sbalneav> That doesn't sound right.
<sbalneav> Sounds like the kernel is mucked up.
<sbalneav> When you see the grub message, on startup, hit escape, and see if there's a previous version of the kernel you can boot from..
<Jalex> will do
<Jalex> booted ok in previous kernel
<Jalex> is there a way to remove the offending kernel?
<sbalneav> aptitude purge <kernelpackage>
<sbalneav> then probably try re-installing it.
<Jalex> thanks
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Peaceful> Can anyone recommend decent cheap thin-client hardware to use with an edubuntu classroom server?
* Kamping_Kaiser uses stripped down desktop pc
<Peaceful> Kamping_Kaiser: yes, and I've found all the spare pc's available and stripped them, but I still need to get 10 more thin clients up
<Peaceful> I'm hoping to find a thin client for around $100.  Anyone found something like that that works?
<Peaceful> I'd have to add keyboard, mouse, & monitor, obviously.
#edubuntu 2007-06-15
<Peaceful> Apparently I'm in an unpopular time zone.  I'll see if there's been any replies tomorrow morning.  It's quitting time for me.
<cliebow>  Peacful:there gotta be donations around somewhere..ewayco advertizes a 99 dollar machine but the cost adds up importing them and there is lots being done to make em work as we speak..
<lns> Is there any way to install Edubuntu on a system and then remove eudubntu-desktop, to create a vanilla ubuntu install that utilized the Edubuntu installer for LTSP setup?
<lns> It seems there are lots of hoops to jump through if you just want Ubuntu LTSP, but Edubuntu gets the cool installer ;)
<root__> hello all
<root__> is the source list for edubuntu the same as ubuntu?
<lns> root__, i can tell you in about 10 minutes, i'm almost done installing edubuntu on a test server
<lns> and i'm running my w/s on ubuntu
<Amaranth> root__: yes
<Amaranth> the only difference is the packaged installed
<lns> or...listen to Amaranth
<lns> ;)
<lns> Amaranth, is that simply edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop ?
<root__> ok, but i just want to make sure im not missing any educational software exculsive to edubuntu only
<root__> tthats not going to be the case if i change my rsource list to match my kubuntu system right?
<Amaranth> lns: yeah
<lns> Are they all pointed to ubuntu.com?
<root__> nope
<root__> some are pointed to the normal repos
<root__> but i have multi/backports/seaveas/etc also
<root__> im going to need to install a few extra packages i cant find in the normal repos, i just wanted to make sure that its all compatible
<lamalex> hi guys
<lamalex> does anyone know of a FOSS alternative to lettergrade or other grading software
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello Corey
<lamalex> allo
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: stop poking!
<jsgotangco> :D
<willvdl> oh no. three hours of work last night has just disappeared
<willvdl> no saved copy anywhere on my system...
<willvdl> RichEd-1: split personalities again? :)
<willvdl> highvoltage, howdy.
<willvdl> was reading meeting minutes from Wed. you mentioned server probs with drupal 5?
<highvoltage> willvdl: yep, quite simply put, we don't have php5 there yet, let me pm you...
<willvdl> ah
<Peaceful> cliebow: ok, I checked out ewayco, but it looks like a really seedy site.  scary.
<moquist> anybody know where I can get an edgy alternate CD? the feisty one is b0rk3n for me.
<Peaceful> So apparently no one uses cheap thin clients that they're willing to talk about?
<stgraber> moquist: aren't they on releases.u.c ?
<moquist> stgraber: I found them. I just stopped using the pretty clicky download interface and started poking around a mirror. thx. :)
<stgraber> hehe, ok :)
<moquist> google was amazingly unhelpful
<moquist> stgraber: also, cdimage.ubuntu.com has all ther previous releases. I just didn't click around enough.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Peaceful> good morning
<sbalneav> Morning
<cottima> is there a way to get a pdf of docs?  http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<cottima> or one html?
<sbalneav> The source docs are in Docbook format, so you could convert to a single pdf from that.
<sbalneav> Don't know if we've already got that somewhere.
<Peaceful> Well, after two days of googling and asking around the best (cheapest but should be reliable and work) thin client I've found is the neoware c50 sold through various resellers online.
<cottima> I have not used alternative cd but does edubuntu have one.  I would like to change logos and graphics for startup, etc.
<sbalneav> You'd have to replace the -artwork packages for that.
#edubuntu 2007-06-16
<mike_jan> While I'm installing edubuntu there are some problems with brltty-x11.....
<mike_jan> so, there is written in the display, that ist was installed... but nothing more...
<mike_jan> So I think the installation stopes..
<mike_jan> The harddisk doesn't work anymore and cdroom too
<mike_jan> It is the 7.04 release
<mike_jan> Have a nice day....
<mike_jan> We git the problem....
<mike_jan> It was the wrong network interface...
<mike_jan> bye
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ball> Anyone here of education-related channels on Freenode?
<ball> Perhaps Further and Higher Ed?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ball, hm?
<sbalneav> Freenode won't have much in the way of education channels, as it's main focus is FOSS Software development.
<ball> Are there any education-centric IRC networks then?
<sbalneav> Don't know.  I know there's some education centric email lisls
<sbalneav> lists, sorry.
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres an #ubuntu-education if that will help
<ball> sbalneav: okay, perhaps I'll have a look for those.  I like the immediacy of IRC though
<Kamping_Kaiser> only imediate if you get a reply :)
<sbalneav> IRC's ok if you have a bunch of people who dedicatedly idle in the channel.
<sbalneav> However, discussion in an email list will always reach a much wider audience.
<ball> Quality Vs. Quantity ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> actually, speed vs quantity
<ball> ok
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<sbalneav> bootyah
<sbalneav> err
<sbalneav> booyeah
<sbalneav> ldm2
<sbalneav> rockin
<yigal> hi guys... i need help with rom-o-martic, to install thin client.
<yigal> how can i tell the right NIC entry in the list? there are several cards with same name, different hexa numbers
<yigal> what are these hexa numbers?
<cliebow>  yigal_
<cliebow> yigal_, :lok at #ltsp to get the device eid
<sbalneav> ogra: Ping
<Live> hi im installing ubuntu, system is windows xp home at the moment, 80gb laptop, need some step by step help with partitions etc, anyone care to take time to help me? :)
<LaserJock> hola Edubuntu people!
<u> hey, the guided partition tool does not work!  It the next button tells it to go back to itself, so it looks like it stays there.
<u> I have a Compaq DL360
<LaserJock> what version of Edubuntu?
<u> 7.04
<LaserJock> is that the Desktop CD?
<u> yes
<u> same with the manual.
<LaserJock> well, you can file a bug about it against the ubiquity package at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<LaserJock> what do you mean by manual?
<u> gparted does not recognize it
<u> the manual partitioning
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well, you could give the Edubuntu Classroom Server CD a try
<LaserJock> it's another download, but it's the best way to install Edubuntu
<u> fdisk is unable to open
<pygi> hey ho folks
<LaserJock> hi pygi
<moquist> ogra_: at this point I'm replacing the gtk greeter entirely with a small Xdialog script. I'm planning to continue using LDM; I'll just move 'gtk' over and symlink my 'auto' as 'gtk'.
<moquist> And AFAIK, this will only be necessary for this one set of stupid-slow laptops.
<LaserJock> hi moquist
<ogra_> moquist, did you test scotties ldm2 ?
<moquist> ogra_: I tested a C implementation I got as a tarball from you several weeks ago, and it was no different
<ogra_> nah
<ogra_> that one still uses ptyhon
<ogra_> the new one from scottie is 100% C
<LaserJock> and it's haawwwt
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> if it only would work :P
<pygi> :P
<ogra_> i'll check out the latest changes tomorrow and call it a day .... if i make it work, we should have switched the default on monday
<Impesse> MOTD
<Impesse> hola
<Impesse> NickServ
#edubuntu 2007-06-17
<sbalneav> Morning all
<pygi> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello pygi
<mykil> hellos
<eps_> I'm after edubuntu that will just work on a ppc imac; I'm a touch confused as to which release cd's I need to download.  can some one just confirm that I want the 'desktop' cd and the add-on cd?
<eps_> mmm ppc isn't supported anyway :(
<eps_> is it possible to get a package list of the apps used in edubuntu so default ubuntu could be setup like it?
<LaserJock> eps_: you might try http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/ports/releases/7.04/release/
<LaserJock> and you probably want the Classroom Server CD and Addon
<edistar> cheers, anyone have experience with sabayone? It somehow does not want to save the changes..
<edistar> its very important!
<LaserJock> well, does it give you an error?
<edistar> no, it doesn't, thats the problem
<LaserJock> ok, and are you editing the profiles using sudo?
<edistar> yes
<edistar> one moment, I started it in the terminal now, I got a lot of errors now, shall I nopaste it?
<LaserJock> sure
<edistar> http://nopaste.php-q.net/301971
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure
<edistar> any suggestions?
<LaserJock> is this on an LTSP server?
<edistar> yes
<LaserJock> and are you running sabayon directly on the server or from a thin client?
<edistar> on the server
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure
<edistar> ok
<LaserJock> it seems like it's having trouble finding a file
<edistar> yes
<edistar> but it could read a profile..
<edistar> cause I could login afterwards..
<LaserJock> did you add a Firefox button somewhere?
<edistar> no
<edistar> sabayon seems to add a lot everytime it starts
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if you unchecked some things that it's trying to add
<edistar> no, I didn't
<LaserJock> I don't have sabayon installed right now so I can't remember
<edistar> just locked every change to see what happened..
<edistar> ok
<LaserJock> I mean, I wonder if you did uncheck some things if it would help
<edistar> I'll try no
<edistar> now
<LaserJock> especially the Firefox stuff
<edistar> I didn't do _anything_ with firefox
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but I think sabayon marks some changes for firefox automatically
<edistar> ok
<moquist> LaserJock: poking at that moodle package again now
<LaserJock> excellent
<moquist> ogra: Tomorrow (when I have access to the hw again) I'll contrast an Xdialog greeter with a zenity greeter; I'm interested to see if zenity is significantly slower than Xdialog.
<pygi> morning bluekuja
<bluekuja> heya pygi !
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> how are you man?
<pygi> tired, very
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> how its going with your software?
<pygi> perfect? :)
<pygi> bluekuja, you all good?
<bluekuja> pygi, yeah, I just found something bad in a package
<bluekuja> can you please try to reproduce it there too?
<bluekuja> (gutsy version)
<pygi> bluekuja, ergh, not now, sorry
<pygi> exam tomorrow :)
<pygi> which package/what's the problem??
<bluekuja> oh oki :)
<bluekuja> I paste you on pastebin
<bluekuja> pygi, something is in italian
<bluekuja> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/102632
<bluekuja> but you will understand
<bluekuja> ^^
<pygi> I've got no idea what that package is
<bluekuja> I was merging gtk2hs (where it got that dep)
<bluekuja> and I get it
<bluekuja> (inside/outside pbuilder)
<moquist> LaserJock: do you prefer to PM or talk in a #channel about package dev?
<LaserJock> well, if it's of general interest we can do it here
<LaserJock> but whatever you want really
<skipper> Hi everyone!
<skipper> Got the "Official Ubuntu Book" and installed Ubuntu on my laptop.  So long Microsoft!
<eps_> thanks LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> eps_: did it help?
<eps_> hopefully, getting the ppc port now :)
#edubuntu 2008-06-09
<webwulf> hello?
<spikemcc> bonjour , mon ordinateur refuse d'installer windows ou prend 1-5 minutes de plus pour dÃ©marer sur windows apres l'essai d'ubuntu !!! hi , my pc refuse to install windows or take 1-5 minutes to boot after I tried ubuntu !!!
<RichEdcmpc> highvoltage: ping ?
<highvoltage> RichEdcmpc: pong
<RichEdcmpc> did you get my email ... limpopo ?
<RichEdcmpc> and are you seeing my /msg
<highvoltage> RichEdcmpc: not yet, switching over to your window now...
<ogra> RichEdcmpc, my atom just arrived but it has 512M/4G :(
<ogra> RichEdcmpc, and apparentls the netbook remox wont run on anything smaller
<RichEdcmpc> ogra: mutter a problem for every solution it seems
<RichEdcmpc> got the EU meeting in a bit ... back on line tomorrow or wed
<ogra_> RichEdcmpc, my atom just arrived but it has 512M/4G :(
<ogra_> RichEdcmpc, and apparently the netbook remix wont run on anything smaller
<stgraber> but your minimal target is still 256M/2G ?
<ogra> well, i think thats disputable if intel wants me to base on UNR
<ogra> (thats why i pinged Rich ;) )
<stgraber> ok, 512MB/4G looks good, less work to do on memory optimization
<ogra> well, i'm majorly impressed by the CPU
<ogra> +with the 512M and 4G it will fly
 * stgraber hopes his cmpc will arrive soon, looks like it'll miss a battery at the beginning :)
<ogra> mine did tooo
<ogra> but i ave enough batteries around already ... not that bad
<stgraber> do they have a problem with their batteries ? :)
<ogra> well, they make up the bigger part of shipping costs i guess
<stgraber> oh, btw I have finished my LTSP changes to iTalc. You can now use it on standard workstations, LTSP installed on the server (ica+italc on the same computer), LTSP with ica installed in the chroot (and iTalc sending it commands from the server)
<stgraber> all that working with avahi and classroom auto-generation
<ogra> did you see bug #238480 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238480 in italc "Italc sets ownership of ~/.config to root" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238480
<stgraber> my only problem is that sometimes avahi sends the ipv6-locallink (fe80:xxx) IP instead of the ipv4 and some computers are then missing
<stgraber> yep, got the bug mail ... I'll check on my LTSP test setup, I have created a new user yesterday only to test iTalc so I'll just check the directory permissions
<stgraber> root@xen01:~# ls -lh /home/test/.config/
<stgraber> total 20K
<stgraber> drwxr-xr-x 2 test test 4.0K 2008-06-08 10:19 iTALC Solutions
<stgraber> looks good here ... maybe he tried to start ica as root ?
<stgraber> that ume-launcher thing is exactly what my grandma needed for her lappy :)
<stgraber> I just need to tweak it a bit to be localized and change some of the directories displayed in the right sidebar (to include her Documents directory)
<ogra> it isnt localized for you ?
<ogra> it surely is german for me
<ogra> but breaks the ui due to long text
<stgraber> items are localized as they are taken from the gnome menu
<stgraber> but things like : Settings, remove favorite, log off, ... aren't
<ogra> ah, roght
<stgraber> I really like it, it's way easier than going through the gnome menu as she previously did. Icons are big and I just need to use Alacarte and remove everything she doesn't need to have the perfect lappy :)
<stgraber> and her new lappy is 100% Intel so everything just works fine which is quite a change from her amd/broadcom/ati :)
 * stgraber opened 3-4 new bugs against ume-launcher :) let's hope they will consider them and make something good from that
<stgraber> I had a quick look at the code and that's C gtk/clutter so nothing I really know ... would have been too easy to have standard gtk components :)
 * lns thinks ume-launcher is going to be the future of "simple computing"
<ogra_cmpc> its pretty cool but saldy fully relies on GL which means its forced to be a future technology
<ogra_cmpc> its unusable slow on non GL environments
<lns> awwww
<lns> that's pretty pointless... I mean, at least make it so you can turn off GL
<ogra_cmpc> the widgetset uses GL
<ogra_cmpc> it does pretty good software rendering but its to slow
<lns> ugh..another widget set?
<lns> can't we all just get along? =p
<ogra_cmpc> clutter is a gtk extension
<lns> ooo, haven't heard of clutter
<lns> is that what ume-launcher uses?
<ogra_cmpc> yep
<lns> oh..well that's better then ;)
 * lns approves =p
<ogra_cmpc> phew
<lns> I'm loving all this linux attention lately with subnotebooks.... it feels like a major turning point in computing, and it seems to be steering people toward what they really want - an easy to use interface to get online and do simple stuff
<lns> Not that it really matters, but even with MS competing with Windows Mobile, the true core of the OS is now more important than ever
#edubuntu 2008-06-10
<webwulf> anyone here?
<webwulf> I could use some help setting up some systems for a school
<webwulf> hello?
<fsgaston> Does anybody know of patch to the 64bit ltsp so it won't lock up?
<ogra> ?? can you elaborate ?
<ogra> you have 64bit clients that done work ?
<ogra> *dont
<fsgaston> ogra - once we get a about 10 clients going with some multimedia the server just locks up
<ogra> define "some multimedia"
<fsgaston> ogra - the box has 8GB or ram and is doing fine and then just stops, I have read some other
<fsgaston> people having the same issue
<ogra> like everyone using rhythmbox at the same time ?
<fsgaston> ogra - realplayer and a few and Writer on a few, variety of apps, I even had it happen on a two client test setup
<ogra> anything in the logs ?
<fsgaston> Sadly we have already wiped the machine and are testing other options, so I don't know
<fsgaston> I heard 32bit was solid.
<ogra> it should be, yes
<ogra> (as should amd64 though, i'D really like to know what that was)
<fsgaston> ogra - have you heard of this happening before, or do most people use 32 bit.
<fsgaston> What logs would help you the most
<ogra> well, i had a lot good feedback for hardy amd64 vs gutsy, but that was merely because flash finally works there
<stgraber> ogra: did you see that bug about http proxy and ltsp-build-client ? (reading /etc/apt/apt.conf)
<ogra> i havent heard of random lockups though
<stgraber> ogra: it's easy to fix but I don't know if debootstrap uses /etc/apt/apt.conf, if it doesn't there is no point in fixing it
<ogra> stgraber, yeah, its a duplicate
<ogra> i was discussing it with vagrant a while ago but we didnt come to a proper solution yet ... since there are at least two places to define the proxy
<stgraber> yes and IIRC the Ubuntu way is to create a file in apt.conf.d no ?
<ogra> either /etc/apt/apt.conf or as http_proxy env variable. the fix needs to handle both
<ogra> i dotn want a ubuntu alone solution ... the advantage of having something deban can use too is that they do the maintenance :)
<stgraber> http_proxy currently works fine for both debootstrap and apt-get, apt.conf doesn't for any, can be solved for apt-get but that's useless if debootstrap doesn't use it
<fsgaston> Does anybody have a good link for setting up autologin with LTSP?
<fsgaston> ogra - we are setting up a new 64bit box for testing?
<ogra> you need to set LDM_AUTOLOGIN=True, LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD in lts.conf
<fsgaston> ogra - if the usernames are the same, does this cause problems on the server with 100 clients
<ogra> yes
<fsgaston> ogra - what do you recommend
<ogra> not with the server but with the apps
<fsgaston> can you do login based on hostname
<ogra> create one user per client u
<fsgaston> ogra - How do point each host machine to a differnet username?
<ogra> i think Gadin in #ltsp had a script for that, try to catch him there
<ogra> *Gadi
<fsgaston> ogra - If you were starting with 100 hosts and were planning on going up to 300 very soon, what approach would you take (network authentication etc)
<ogra> i dont care about hosts, the question is how many users do you have ? :)
<ogra> (often thats more than the number of hosts)
<fsgaston> about 2000 users
<fsgaston> We were looking at network filestorege for file access at school and home
<ogra> yeah, well, a separation of appservers vs bootservers would be the first step i guess
<ogra> sorry, got a meeting now ... look at the mille-xterm scripts (i think stgraber can poit you to something) they do things like automatic appserver detection in ldm etc
<fsgaston> Thanks ogra, you have been a great help
<ogra> i'll be back soon
<fsgaston> join #ltsp
<dukeofgp> how to get involved in edubuntu
<lulemurfan> is it possible to install edubuntu on QEMU?
<fsgaston> I need some feedback, would you do Edubuntu 7.1 or 8.04 for LTSP?
<stgraber> 8.04, it's LTS
#edubuntu 2008-06-11
<Muhammad_Saad> Hello, I have set up a home network between a Linux PC and a windows XP one. I can access Windows shared folder from Linux but when I try to access the Linux PC from the Windows one, it asks me for a password. Any idea?
<lns-eee> Muhammad_Saad, that would be better asked in either #ubuntu or in a samba channel
<lns-eee> This chan is specifically for edubuntu-specific bits
<Muhammad_Saad> I am also using Edubuntu.
<Muhammad_Saad> Do you mean the things that are specific to Edubuntu?
<lns-eee> Right
<Muhammad_Saad> Sorry.
<lns-eee> No worries
<clarkeo> hey I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I could get rid of the splash screen on my thin clients when they boot up as I need to diagnose a problem?
<johnny>  it's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<clarkeo> yea thats the mysterious thing Ive edited that file so it looks like  'DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img'    but still the thin client boots up with the splash screen
<lns-eee> clarkeo, you need to append 'nosplash' to it (replacing 'splash')
<clarkeo> ah thank you ill just give that a try
<lns-eee> np
<clarkeo> should i remove quiet?
<lns-eee> yeah i would
<clarkeo> no luck with that it now reads ' DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img nosplash' but still boots with a splash
<lns-eee> clarkeo, no clue...that's always worked for me (appending nosplash and removing quiet)..what dist. you using?
<clarkeo> Ubuntu 8.04
<lns-eee> it's always worked for me in gutsy... i'm not sure (haven't done the same thign in hardy yet, still upgrading my servers)
<clarkeo> yea its really odd because ive done a bit of googling and thats the only advice I had found
<clarkeo> thanks anyway for your help
<lns-eee> no prob..wish i could help more
<clarkeo> ok now ive got the problem that it seems that my Xserver wont start getting worse and worse it seems
<clarkeo> all i have when my thin client boots is a flashing cursor in the top left
<clarkeo> could anyone tell me where to find the logs for thin clients?
<stgraber> RichEd, ogra: early/late meeting ? (if any)
 * ogra is open for anything 
<ogra> (since i missed that the phonecall i got up for early today was postponed)
<stgraber> I have the QA meeting tonight, so this afternoon would be great (12:00 UTC ?)
<stgraber> ogra, RichEd ^
<RichEd> highvoltage: ping
<yogesh> hey has anyone tried ntlm or proxy authentication in client
<yogesh> is anything wrong or no one is talking
<yogesh> hey has anyone tried ntlm or proxy authentication for client
<stgraber> nobody joined the channel since you last asked so you are not likely to get more answers by asking again
<lecaros> which client are you talking about?
<stgraber> thin clients in a LTSP environment
<stgraber> as you was told on #ltsp, the clients are authenticating using SSH to the server. So if you want to make ntlm/proxy auth to work, you need to do that on the server, it has nothing to do with the clients.
<yogesh> yeah i know tht
<yogesh> clients r just dummy machines
<yogesh> but client run in completely independent environent
<yogesh> stgraber: did u get my problem
#edubuntu 2008-06-12
<generic> hi all i want to access local disk attached to my thin client while loading image from server
<generic> any idea?
<coolio> hiya just installed hardy ltsp booted clients and they stalled on Busybox
<coolio> anything I should done after the install
#edubuntu 2008-06-13
<wima> has anyone had any success in changing the default umask on an ltsp system?
<wima> i changed it in login.defs and profile, but it does't have any effect
<wima> there appears to be a bug in gdm that resets the umask to 022
<wima> can this have any effect on an ltsp setup?
<wima> it doesn't use gdm, right?
<stgraber> ogra: around ?
<stgraber> I'm working on some debug packages for italc and I would like to generate packages with symbols
<stgraber> is there a way to force it not to remove them ?
<ogra> hmm, no idea, i actually never build -dbg packages
<ogra> i guess pitti or seb128 know better
<RichEd> hey ogra stgraber
<stgraber> hi RichEd
#edubuntu 2008-06-14
<mimilus> plop
<mimilus> il y a quelqu'un ?
#edubuntu 2008-06-15
<loddfafnir> hello
<loddfafnir> re-hello
<bimberi> hi loddfafnir
<loddfafnir> hi bimberi
<loddfafnir> bye all
<Jason> anyone here able to point me in the right direction for getting drivers?
#edubuntu 2009-06-08
<cosio55> Hi
<cosio55> i needed some help for a school project
<Svenstaro> What's that?
<cosio55> i want to make a computer room in my school, but im from mexico so really there is no much money here, so what i thought would be a good idea is to use edubuntu, and 1 computer as server, and then the others as thin clients, is it hard to install al that?
<Svenstaro> cosio55, depends on how many bells and whistles you need and how many computer clients you have
<cosio55> i want to make everything from scratch, lets say one server for 20 thin clients
<Svenstaro> cosio55, you want a powerful server then
<cosio55> how much $~
<Svenstaro> About $1000
<Svenstaro> Quadcore, 4GB Ram, raid 1 disks
<Svenstaro> gigabit switch and gigabit cards
<Svenstaro> the clients might only need 100mbit
<cosio55> and more less how much each thin client would cost?
<Svenstaro> less than $50 if you only count the computer without screen and peripherals
<cosio55> and how can i build a thin client a motherboard a processor or how?
<Svenstaro> I recommend getting the cheapest computer that supports PXE booting
<Svenstaro> that means it is completely disk less
<cosio55> and do you know any brand or any model in specific?
<Svenstaro> Nah, I just use what is bouncing around here.
<stgraber> hmm, that server hardware can run 50 or so thin cliennts, not 20
<Svenstaro> stgraber, one single youtube gets my quadcore to 25%
<Svenstaro> So careful about that
<stgraber> that's why we have localapps
<Svenstaro> Also, quadcores are cheap
<stgraber> I run some networks with over 5000 thin clients so I know a bit about CPU usage believe me :)
<Svenstaro> Just saying what's happening to my poor server :(
<cosio55> so for 20 thin clients what configuration do you think would be best
<stgraber> usually the biggest issue is the RAM, so 4GB are always welcome, then a good Core2 should be enough though as Svenstaro said QuadCores are cheap so if you don't have existing hardware around it may be a good choice
<stgraber> for the thin clients, you can get something really good starting at 200-250$ based on Intel Atom so they'll be powerful enough to run firefox and some other CPU intensive appps as localapps and decrease the load on the server and the network
<stgraber> (the reall issue with youtube is not the CPU usage, it's the bandwidth :))
<Svenstaro> You can probably get really cheap yet suitable old comps in your area for less than $50
<Svenstaro> With some rusty graphics card that still suffices
<stgraber> for sure you can get some cheaper thin clients using AMD Geode or VIA C7 though they aren't well supported by X and the kernel
<Svenstaro> I mean old workstations, p3s etc.
<stgraber> for video card you should make sure that compositing is supported and that you have more than one xvideo channel
<stgraber> yeah, I was speaking of new hardware, you can find some old workstations too, just be careful to have at least 128MB of RAM for 100% on the server or 512MB of ram if you plan to do localapps
<cosio55> and what else would i need the server, the thin clients and what else?
<stgraber> gigabit link between the server and the switch (so you'll need a switch with at least one gigabit uplink) and then 100Mb/s to the thin clients
<stgraber> if you're going with old workstations, you may need to check your electricity as well as these things use quite a lot of power
<stgraber> (Atom-based uses 10W in average so that's less of a problem)
<cosio55> for example could these motherboard be used as a thin client? http://cgi.ebay.com/INTEL-MB-BOXD945GCLF2D-ATOM-INT945GC-LGA775-FSB533-DR2_W0QQitemZ330326955212QQihZ014QQcategoryZ28026QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
<stgraber> yes, that's the same used in most commercial atom-based thin clients (though they're using a smaller version of it)
<Svenstaro> Looks good to me
<stgraber> you can get that + RAM + case for under 200$
<Svenstaro> + psu..?
<stgraber> psu is provided with the case at least for the ones we took
<cosio55> and for example a gigabit link could be this? http://cgi.ebay.com/8-Port-Gigabit-1000M-Tp-Link-Network-Ethernet-Switch_W0QQitemZ250402796383QQihZ015QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<Svenstaro> That's handy
<Svenstaro> cosio55, too small
<Svenstaro> you're looking for 24ports
<stgraber> I'd rather go with a big 24ports with one or two ports gigabit
<cosio55> like this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1024-24-Port-Unmanaged-Pure-Gigabit-Switch_W0QQitemZ270403549330QQihZ017QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<Svenstaro> woah thats cheap
<stgraber> looks better, just look at some reviews to make sure the backbone can actually support 1Gb/s :)
<cosio55> ebay is a very good place to get low prices  ;)
<Svenstaro> I prefer private online warehouses but oh well, wahtever works for you!
<stgraber> because some of these are fine for one gigabit transfer between two ports but suddenly get extremely slow if you try another transfer between two other ports :)
<cosio55> and the motherborad i showed you later, does it support PXE? or how can i know
<Svenstaro> cosio55, it will support PXE
<stgraber> it does
<stgraber> that's a standard Realtek Gigabit card, you can turn on PXE booting in the BIOS
<cosio55> Oh ok well thak you very much you really have no idea about how much you have helped me on this school project, im actually presenting this project to helo the poor people in mexico so that they can get to use a computer
<Svenstaro> nice :D
<cosio55> but i only have one more question, is it really hard to actually install edubuntu on the server and then on the thin clients?
<cosio55> like you need to use many commands and stuff or is it more graphical?
<Svenstaro> well currently documentation is a bit torn, you will have to invest a great deal of time to get everything going *just* like you want
<Svenstaro> but the basic get-going set up is rather swift
<stgraber> install is basically boot an alternate CD, choose LTSP, then follow the install process, once you get to the installed desktop, then install edubuntu
<Svenstaro> You often will need to get your hands dirty I'm afraid, so better embrace the CLI.
<cosio55> sorry, what is CLI?
<Svenstaro> command line interface
<Svenstaro> as opposed to GUI
<cosio55> oh ok well thank you very much and just 1 more question thin clients dont need Hard disks right?
<stgraber> indeed
<Svenstaro> thats the big idea after all
<cosio55> oh ok well thank you very very much
<Svenstaro> uhm
<stgraber> ogra: thanks
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<stgraber> hi sbalneav, how's ldm going ? ;)
<sbalneav> I didn't look at it at all this weekend, as I was out at the cottage.
<stgraber> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportNumlockx looks good ?
<alkisg> stgraber: udhcp uses CDBS for it's packaging.
<alkisg> udhcp => numlockx
<alkisg> stgraber, btw, now that Ubuntu installs the "Recommends:" dependencies by default, would it be possible to modify ltsp-server so that it recommends, but not depends, on tftpd-hpa? (so that one can replace it with dnsmasq afterwards)
<stgraber> IIRC we had issue with that as in some cases d-i don't install recommends
<alkisg> Damn! :( Thanks, though.
<stgraber> fixed, the mistake in the MIR, thanks
<Lns> Hope I'm not spamming around - but have you guys seen this? http://linux.com/news/enterprise/case-studies/16798-linux-makes-the-grade-in-california-schools
<HedgeMage> Lns: neat :)
<Lns> HedgeMage: =)
#edubuntu 2009-06-09
<stgraber> highvoltage: Hi, I released 2.0.1 for ltsp-cluster-accountmanager just so you know
<LaserJock> hey guys, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/9.10/Tasks needs some filling in
<sbalneav> LaserJock: ok
<sbalneav> I'll fill in some :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Howzzat?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: wha?
<sbalneav> I updated some tasks.
 * stgraber too
<sbalneav> Gotta ping that guy on #sabayon again.
<LaserJock> we should probably have some more detail on ISO testing and website refreshing
<asanchez> hi LaserJock, we are planning study edubuntu-menus in order to identify our needs and generate some docs at the same time
<asanchez> we don't have any human resource right now to begin to study edubuntu-menus but i hope to free some of them after GuadalinexEdu deploy in a few weeks
<sbalneav> asanchez: If you're going to do some docs on it, would you mind coordinating with me? I'd like to get them documented in the edubuntu handbook as well.
<asanchez> sbalneav, of course
<LaserJock> asanchez: well, what do you guys generally need?
<LaserJock> asanchez: do you want to distribute essentially static menus?
<asanchez> LaserJock, we need to organize Education menu in twwo levels
<Nubae-bus> asanchez so its looking good for me to come to Sevilla
<Nubae-bus> they want an interview for me there
<Nubae-bus> so I'll probably be able to do that end of June
<asanchez> Nubae-bus, good news
<asanchez> we'll very happy to work with you in our team
<Nubae-mob> asanchez if u need me to do any work for u guys before then, let me know, I'm relatively free, so just ask
<LaserJock> asanchez: what levels do you have?
<asanchez> LaserJock, our goverment "recommends" us to organize Education menu by subject
<asanchez> LaserJock, i'm going to have one screenshot, give me 1 minute
<Nubae-mob> reorganising menus sounds relatively trivial... how do u want to do it though, through a script?
<LaserJock> Nubae-mob: hopefully using edubuntu-menus
<LaserJock> which is a Xsession script that modifies the menu configuration directory depending on what groups the user belongs to
<asanchez> I hope we can use edubuntu-menus
<asanchez> we need to add some extra applications to edubuntu
<LaserJock> sure, you should have a guadalinexedu-menus package
<LaserJock> but the concept is that you don't change any .desktop files at all
<LaserJock> so you won't have to modify any existing packages
<nubae2> is menus copded in python?
<asanchez> yes, that is our goal
<LaserJock> and if you uninstall the -menus package you revert to normal behavior
<LaserJock> nubae2: no
<nubae2> ill have to look closer at it
<LaserJock> nubae2: the menu rendering is done in C
<LaserJock> nubae2: but the actual menus are a XDG spec and are in XML
<nubae2> oh... c is not my friend
<LaserJock> you don't need to worry about that though
<LaserJock> nubae: just grab the edubuntu-menus package and poke around
<bencrisford> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> the reason we didn't push edubuntu-menus before is that we got hung up on having a GUI editor
<LaserJock> right now you need to manually create the menu file
<LaserJock> which is fine for static deployments
<bencrisford> we talking about menus?
<LaserJock> but doesn't give the educators much freedom
<LaserJock> bencrisford: yep
<bencrisford> and they are currently hardcoded?
<LaserJock> kinda'ish
<bencrisford> that must be a hassle
<asanchez> Here is one screenshot of guadalinexedu Education menu: http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/averroes/cga/files/guadalinexedu_menu.png
<LaserJock> the menus themselves are mostly dynamic in the sense that you don't have to specify *every* menu item
<LaserJock> but you have to do a lot of work to create a new group menu
<LaserJock> and you have edit them by hand if you want to change the general layout, etc.
<asanchez> nowadays this is not an easy task for a teacher for example
<LaserJock> asanchez: do you guys have a standard set of packages or do you let teachers install whatever they want>
<LaserJock> ?
<asanchez> nobody has access to install nothing
<LaserJock> ok, then that actually makes it pretty easy
<asanchez> teachers can make a request about any application and we package it and then deploy to all computers
<LaserJock> so it would take maybe 30min-1hr to get you ready to go
<asanchez> we have a lot ot apps included that don't come by default in (edu)buntu
<asanchez> LaserJock, 2 hours to make a complete deploy into servers
<LaserJock> it depends somewhat on the .desktop files of your packages
<LaserJock> the menu uses the Categories= field in the .desktop files
<LaserJock> so if we can match categories up with the Education menu your government says you need then it will be very easy
<asanchez> yes
<LaserJock> you can also specify that a particular .desktop file should go in a certain category
<asanchez> I'll try to have a report about our study of edubuntu-menus as soon as possible
<LaserJock> don't hesitate to email edubuntu-devel if you need help
<LaserJock> one of Edubuntu's jobs is to make your job easier :-)
<asanchez> we'll do it, thanks
<nubae> gah, Laserjock is gone I see :-(
<sbalneav> Oooh.  Found a great new latin phrase
<sbalneav> omnes feriunt, ultima necat
<sbalneav> "All the hours wound.  Last one kills"
 * sbalneav likes to collect latin sayings
<sbalneav> omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
<sbalneav> Everything said is stronger if said in Latin.
#edubuntu 2009-06-10
<Lns> sbalneav: Language is overrated... ;)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<stgraber> hey sbalneav
<Ahmuck_> hi stgraber
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<erieslabhu> I have fallen and I can't get up :(
<erieslabhu> I have my network interfaces config file jacked
<erieslabhu> can anyone offer me some assistance?
<erieslabhu> I added a second LAN port so that Edubuntu could be used as a LTSP server, started to configure the file and now I have nothing at all.
<erieslabhu> no network card anywhere. When i try sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart, I get Ignoring unknown interface eth0=eth0.
<erieslabhu> ok going to ltsp channel
<alkisg> erieslabhu: so you need a new interfaces file?
#edubuntu 2009-06-11
<veryfrustrated> hey umm...is anyone on?
<veryfrustrated> im very frustrated. heh. with ltsp. was wondering if anyone had some time or pointers
<veryfrustrated> register password
<intok> Edubuntu, Qimo or something else, whats better for old gear? P3 600Mhz, 512Mb ram kinda stuff
<kkeett> Hello, just wondering if there is anyway to try edubuntu 9.04  'live' without installing ?
<kkeett> ?
<kkeett> hello, sorry I asked this in here already but got logged out...
<kkeett> anyone in here know if it is possible to run edubuntu as a live [ie without install]
<alkisg> kkeett: I don't think so. It's an add-on cd, not a distro, so it doesn't have a live cd.
<kkeett> thanks for that alkisg, ya i know of the changes to  the distro, do you think there is any possibility of a iive edubuntu? i often demo it to schools and many have installed edubuntu due to this,  I have another school interested, but there is now way they will allow an install just to demo !
<alkisg> kkeett: I think you may be able to make a usb stick with that, yes, but I don't know how. See unetbootin or something.
<kkeett> thanks again alkisg, will have a look !
<sbalneav> Morning all
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu land
<alkisg> Hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> Hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> nubae: you going to be around?
<erieslabnx> I have a user problem and the ubuntu room is to busy for help....
<erieslabnx> I created like 15 users and only about 6 show up in the Users settings, I tried to re-create the missing users and it says the users exist already. Yet there is not even a folder for them in the Home Folder. Why are they not there?
<erieslabnx> anyone have any guesses?
<LaserJock> there is an option to not create the home folder, I suppose you could have accidentally hit that
<erieslabnx> it will not allow that user to login as well?
<erieslabnx> but says they already exist'
<LaserJock> the user itself exists
<erieslabnx> they are not in the user list to edit the settings to even see if the checkbox was checked
<LaserJock> but if there is no /home/<user> directory it won't login
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> how did you create the users?
<erieslabnx> not listed under users and groups
<erieslabnx> from users and groups
<LaserJock> that's odd
<erieslabnx> i know right
<erieslabnx> i figured if it was a missed option i would delete the user and do it over, but they are not there for me to delete
<LaserJock> you can use sudo userdel -r <username>
<erieslabnx> can not login the user in from the thin clients or the server itself
<LaserJock> to remove them from the command line
<erieslabnx> will try that
<LaserJock> then try making them again
<erieslabnx> trying that shell command said user does not exist, then going into the users and groups to add them says already exists
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> that's messed up
<erieslabnx> I was afraid of that
<LaserJock> I guess it might be a bug in Users and Groups
<LaserJock> though I don't know what it would be seeing that it thinks they already exist
<erieslabnx> sudo useradd username password ?
<sbalneav> check the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow file
<erieslabnx> is that how you do it?
<sbalneav> off for lunch for a bit.
<erieslabnx> i don't have a password or shadow folder
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: check the files
<erieslabnx> oops lol
<erieslabnx> not folders
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: see if the users you created are in there
<erieslabnx> nothing listed for those same missing users in password file, but all active working users are in there
<erieslabnx> shadow files are saying unreadable format
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: if you do sudo less /etc/shadow ?
<erieslabnx> ok i did sudo in and all files were readable, but those missing users are missing in both files
<LaserJock> ok
<erieslabnx> could sabayon have done this?
<LaserJock> ohhhhh
<LaserJock> you have sabayon installed?
<erieslabnx> I think that is the breaking point where I added the additional users
<erieslabnx> the existing users were added before sabayon I think
<erieslabnx> I installed it but have not yet touched it
<LaserJock> yeah, right now sabayon has a known bug where Users and Groups is broken after installing sabayon
<erieslabnx> LOL
<erieslabnx> this is why restore points are good lol
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: what version of Ubuntu are you using?
<erieslabnx> alternate with ltsp
<LaserJock> what release though
<erieslabnx> 9.04
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so just uninstall sabayon
<erieslabnx> that is jaunty right?
<LaserJock> yep
<erieslabnx> ok
<LaserJock> sabayon itself is also broken in 9.04
<LaserJock> so there's not much reason for testing it out at the moment :(
<erieslabnx> ok thank you
<LaserJock> sbalneav is working on getting it back in shape
<LaserJock> but for now just removing it should fix everything up for you
<erieslabnx> this is why I love this community, all real people, all willing to help if they have time
<erieslabnx> even the developers!
<LaserJock> we just wish we had more time :(
<LaserJock> or else sabayon would be just fine in 9.04
<erieslabnx> :)
<erieslabnx> I am patient
<LaserJock> but we're trying anyway
<LaserJock> that's nice
<LaserJock> many users aren't nearly so patient :-)
<erieslabnx> very grateful for what is out there already
<erieslabnx> My server was in a box yesterday and I had 10 thin clients connected in running in about 3 hours yesterday. I have never used Linux before in my life
<erieslabnx> just awesome
<LaserJock> oh wow
<LaserJock> that's really cool
<LaserJock> well, welcome to Linux and Ubuntu!
<erieslabnx> :)
<LaserJock> for LTSP stuff the #ltsp channel is awesome, if you haven't been over there yet
<erieslabnx> I have been idling there learning :)
<erieslabnx> thank you
<erieslabnx> as far as sabayon, was it good before the glitches?
<erieslabnx> the gui shows that it is highly rated
<LaserJock> I think it might depend on how you use it and what you're wanting to get out of it
<erieslabnx> jammed up
<erieslabnx> screen is going out, i think it is the uninstall
<erieslabnx> brb after reboot
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: are you using LTSP in an educational environment?
<erieslabnx> you could say, yes....
<erieslabnx> mental health, we provide job training to mentally disabled adults
<LaserJock> oh, that's great
<erieslabnx> at this office we are only deploying 12 seats, the next setup/ other office will be 50 seats
<LaserJock> so is the LTSP setup for staff or for actual training?
<erieslabnx> both actualy
<LaserJock> Edubuntu has tossed around the idea of doing some "adult education" stuff but the idea never really got formulated
<LaserJock> are you going to use an non-default apps or do you basically need office and web browsing?
<erieslabnx> I have followed Edu for a long long time knowing they were the path we needed
<erieslabnx> about three years before taking the dive
<erieslabnx> the hesitation has just been the fact that I am scared to force myself to become a linux admin
<LaserJock> geeze, that's some serious forethought :-)
<LaserJock> I can understand that
<erieslabnx> after seeing the simplicity of getting the thin clients running I am angry I wasted so much time
<LaserJock> I'm a chemist by career/education
<erieslabnx> :) Sociology here
<LaserJock> so sysadmin'ing isn't exactly my forte necessarily
<highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: ah, my wife is a "social scientist"
<erieslabnx> I am hitting walls now, I installed Sabayon to make sure the thin clients were bullet proof from the users, and jacked my server up bad
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: we're having an Edubuntu meeting in ~ 4min in #ubuntu-meeting, you're welcome to join us
<erieslabnx> yes I am curious :) thank you
<highvoltage> oh wow, it's Thursday already!?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: uhhh, ya
<LaserJock> and I thought *I* was the spacey one ;-p
<erieslabnx> is there a password on the channel?
<LaserJock> nope
<erieslabnx> k
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: not much time for being spacey this week
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: there are hardly any secret or protected channels in Ubuntu, even some of the Canonical stuff is open
<erieslabnx> k
<erieslabnx> hmm these missing users are listed in /etc/ groups
<erieslabnx> group rather without the s
<erieslabnx> and /etc/ gshadow
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> so maybe the user was removed fine
<LaserJock> but the corresponding group remains
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: go into Users and Groups and go to the groups section and see if they're listed
<LaserJock> nubae: Edubuntu meeting time
<LaserJock> ==== Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ====
<erieslabnx> yeah they are listed in groups, could that be why I can't add them add them as Users?
<erieslabnx> yep worked
<erieslabnx> thanks for the help again guys
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: np
<LaserJock> highvoltage: if we don't get stgraber and nubae I think we're better off just rescheduling
<highvoltage> *nod*
<erieslabnx> I just seen nubae a few minutes ago
<erieslabnx> unless he timed out a few minutes ago there activity in another room
<LaserJock> I'd like us to go over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/9.10/Tasks
<LaserJock> I added some packaging/QA stuff a minute ago
<LaserJock> erieslabnx: so have you been installing many apps outside the Ubuntu defaults?
<LaserJock> or are you still in the "getting LTSP set up" stage?
<erieslabnx> I have started looking about, more interested in getting the system stable and locked down so it can't be modified much
<erieslabnx> I don't wanna be sought out for tech support all day long everyday
<LaserJock> yeah
<stgraber> LaserJock: I'm back
<stgraber> sorry was on lunch break
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> nubae: pingy pingy
<stgraber> highvoltage: saw my commit ? (standard version)
<highvoltage> nubaaaaaaaaae
<intok> anyone tried Qimo before? how is it for young kids?
<pygi> intok: its pretty good, yes
<nubae> highvoltage: hi
<nubae> voltage :-)
<nubae> any idea what Laserjockus wanted?
#edubuntu 2009-06-12
<LaserJock> who's going to be at the CC and TB meetings?
<sbalneav> The general Ubuntu ones?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we have agenda items for both
<sbalneav> When are they
<jsgotangco> hey
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you mountain or central time?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: hi
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: hey dude
<sbalneav> Central
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so it would be 5am and 9am for CC and TB next Tues. the 16th
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I'll see if I can drag my sorry butt out of bed early enough for that.
<Call-Me-M> hey, i have been using 5 days now trying to get a web-page up and running, i have looked at several tutorials, and howto's and i cant seem to understand how to build my own web host server, then c
<Call-Me-M> hey, i have been using 5 days now trying to get a web-page up and running, i have looked at several tutorials, and howto's and i cant seem to understand how to "build my own web host server, i have created a web-page at dreamweaver, but i dont understand what i should do to publish it on my own host server.????!!!??? Help Anyone!?
<sbalneav> Call-Me-M: Sorry, what are you trying to do?
<sbalneav> Build a web page?
<sbalneav> Usually you'd use something like ftp to transfer it to the server.
<Lns> http://blog.logicalnetworking.net/index.php/technologyarticles/schwarzenegger-to-launch-digital-textboo?blog=5 (shameless plug for my blog ;) )
<Lns> nubae: you around?
#edubuntu 2009-06-13
<nubae> hey folks...
<bencrisford> hey
<nubae> not much action to be seen... how are things going... can u give me maybe a rundown of what's been done over the last week, 2 weeks?
<nubae> bencrisford: I've been working on a Moodle instance that can be used and demoed by various comunities. Right now its being built with openSUSE in mind, but I'd like it to be as agnostic to the distro as possible... Take a look and tell me what u think, what direction u think it should take... nubae.selfip.com/moodle
<nubae> right now its running on a server in my local network
<nubae> makes development a bit faster
<nubae> but may seem slow to u in terms of refreshing
<bencrisford> moodle is course management software right
<nubae> yep, though its quite a powerful overal CMS
<nubae> so I've added more than just courses to it
<bencrisford> nice
<nubae> ideally I'd like it to be a full fledged education portal
<bencrisford> im working on eskole, which is similar
<nubae> I'm collecting as much of the data from other places as possible
<nubae> and if it doesnt exist, just creating it. But the idea here is to reuse, so all courses will have an easy 'download this course' button with which teachers, developers, etc can make the content available on their networks
<nubae> Too much data is protected on the net... and it makes it very difficult to set up anything that people can freely use.
<nubae> But... the free stuff is out there, just not well organised, hidden, and generally unfinished
<nubae> I calculate it takes a good 2 or 3 weeks and you can have a really nice content rich education portal
<bencrisford> cool :D
<nubae> for example, take a look at resources by application
<nubae> Its a very simple idea... split apps into sub sections (I chose, tutorials, video/audio cases, and offical books/articles)
<bencrisford> yeah, its a neat idea :)
<nubae> and its surprising how much content u can then find on that... I was pleasantly surprised that even for scribus there is a ton of info
<nubae> its just all hidden away. It is also a simple step to move from what I've got there now, to making it into a course
<nubae> so the foundation can definitely be modified to be more 'course-like'
<nubae> I need lots of help on this, so if you do have time and wanna volunteer, I can tell you how you can help me
<nubae> ;-) hint hint
<bencrisford> nubae: Sure, id love to get familiar with course management systems before the heavy lifting on eskole gets underway
<nubae> allright, so u wanna try making a course? or would you rather organise some howtos in the moodle wiki?
<nubae> I made 2 howtos already, one for installing LAMP, the other Moodle.. but they should be templates for other howtos... they can definetly be improved, if u wanna take a look
<nubae> I want to make sure that we just put in the essential howtos... and that they are simple and work
<nubae> they can later then be turned into courses without too much work
<nubae> but I think gathering all the content takes presedence
<bencrisford> im not sure yet, i have to go now
<bencrisford> but we can talk later ?
<nubae> yes, I'm around and really appreciate any help I get to it
<bencrisford> :)
<kwah> hi all
<kwah> is there a documentation somewhere how on may produce an add-on CD like Edubuntu does?
<bencrisford> nubae: fancy taking part in a little project ive got planned>
<bencrisford> ?*
<bencrisford> i just sorted the pier website, so its pretty much ready to go :)
<bencrisford> i just need members now
<bencrisford> there's a place on it for anyone here who wants a hand in it in fact
<bencrisford> on the core team that is
<bencrisford> it is education-related in a way
<bencrisford> im hoping to get experienced and non-experienced devs and then do some mentoring whilst creating some software and stuff :)
<nubae> what's the link?
<bencrisford> http://www.pegusus.tk nubae
<bencrisford> its a bit random...  but im trying to get it organised and to work
<nubae> not very obvious what this is for/about
<bencrisford> i know
<bencrisford> there will be a proper homepage eventually
<nubae> getting people to sign up, let alone help on a project would require that you open up the environment as much as possible
<bencrisford> i dont aim to attract people globally at the moment
<nubae> shuld really be your priority if u wish to attract anyone at all... I wouldnt just sign up for something unless I knew what it was for
<bencrisford> i just want a few people at the moment, its not clear *how* to sign up, eventually it will have a seperate website and pier pages
<bencrisford> i dont want it to be a huge team of people, thats hard to organise
<bencrisford> there can be *tons* of contributors, but the actual team is gonna be kept small
<bencrisford> i think it will work better
<nubae> also... make sure you are not reinventing the wheel, though I dont know what this is about, you have to be clear how this is something unique, new, and essential
<nubae> so pitch me...
<bencrisford> well, my mate wants to learn programming and scripting, i think learning by doing works best
<nubae> I'm probably a good average dev... involved in lots of projects, very busy already with my own stuff...
<bencrisford> yeah, well this can take up little or lots of your time, its up to you :)
<bencrisford> but the project isnt just about mentoring
<bencrisford> its about writing great scripts and softwares
<nubae> I still have no idea what the project is
<bencrisford> its a group of projects
<bencrisford> the project *is* the team
<bencrisford> thats the idea
<bencrisford> although eventually there will be one project bringing all the subs together
<bencrisford> subs = sub projects
<nubae> sorry.. I'm still unsure as to what the aim is, what the project is supposed to be, and why I'd be interested in it
<bencrisford> originally it was about me writing some software with a couple of mates, but im trying to expand it
<bencrisford> i just want to get new people involved with development
<nubae> sorry if that sounds critical, I'm trying to be helpful in a way :-)
<bencrisford> its ok
<nubae> development of what?
<bencrisford> a few things :P, thats what is confusing, there is no *one* project at the moment
<bencrisford> its just a development team, for devs of *all* ability :)
<bencrisford> so we can teach, learn and develop.  its really wishy-washy, i dont expect anyone to understand but me and my mate
<nubae> ok, well think u need to get that cleared up... u need to make it very clear what you want already burdened devs to get involved with, wishy-washy won't cut it
<nubae> u see how difficult it is to get edubuntu help, and that is a project with a relatively clear goal (still far too unclear, but improving)
<bencrisford> the aim of pegusus is to create pegusus.  but the team is the base of the project if you see what i mean
<bencrisford> the dev team is what the projects about
<bencrisford> the actual software is a side thing
<nubae> so u are talking about creating a community
<nubae> a community that centers around what? education? security? gaming?
<bencrisford> yes!  a community!  thats the word i wanted
<bencrisford> a community of developers
<nubae> thats still too general... sounds like reinventing the wheel... we already have launchpad and hundreds of rivals
<bencrisford> to work on anything a member throws at the rest of the team i guess, although there are some projects forming a backbone
<bencrisford> its not about rivals
<bencrisford> its about having some fun, and creating some awesome software :)
<bencrisford> and the mentoring is a huge part of it
<bencrisford> Will, my mate has never written a single program
<bencrisford> im mentoring him
<bencrisford> using the project
<nubae> launchpad is a community that handles a decentralised distributed development platform, via bazaar
<bencrisford> but its too big and crowded, my one is cosy
<nubae> ok, my question then is, why not use launchpad?
<bencrisford> i dont want it to be full of people
<bencrisford> i want my own work
<bencrisford> on my own web server
<bencrisford> doing stuff i like
<nubae> well, u can take the launchpad code and install it locally
<bencrisford> i like pier
<nubae> seems like a waste to reinvent the wheel, a waste of your resources which might be better used at doing what you want the community you envisage to do
<bencrisford> but you don't have to like my project i guess :), but i was just wondering whether you wanted to take part
<nubae> well I still dont know what the project is/does
<nubae> thats why I'm trying to get u to sell it to me :-) I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here....
<nubae> my intention is not to discourage you, but to think about how others will react to you wanting them to hand over their (precious) time
<bencrisford> its not meant to impress others, thats the point
<bencrisford> i just want a nice platform, and backbone for me and some people i know to develop some stuff and mentor some new developers
<bencrisford> pegusus isnt one thing
<bencrisford> its alot of things
<bencrisford> its a group of softwares, a community of developers, a learning platform for new devs
<bencrisford> and more
<bencrisford> nubae: Is that so bad =(
<nubae> well here's my honest to god opinion (and I apologize in advance if it offends you, that is not my intention), unless u can sell it, you're not gonna get too many people involved :-( for example... I already use quite a lot of software for my development work, and I wouldn't unless there was a really good reason, start learning to use something new, especially something that had no clear future and no past
<bencrisford> i dont want to get people involved
<bencrisford> not many people anyway
<nubae> well, even the few u want involved... u need to give them a good reason
<bencrisford> if anyone enquires about how, then ill be honoured and surprised
<bencrisford> but im more interested in asking people
<bencrisford> its that sort of group
<bencrisford> the reason is to have fun
<bencrisford> to make some software
<bencrisford> make a community
<bencrisford> learn some stuff
<nubae> ok, then go for it
<bencrisford> teach some stuff
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> arrgghh!  its my birthday in 4 minutes
<nubae> I'm just saying... if it was me, I'd try and make it unique
<bencrisford> i better get some sleep
<bencrisford> nubae: it is
<nubae> well, happy Birthday bencrisford
<bencrisford> name something else like it?
<nubae> I still have no idea what it is :-)
<nubae> a community of developers is far to abstract for me... I can name hundreds of those
<bencrisford> well, its *my* community :P
<nubae> how old are u gonna be?
<bencrisford> heh, 1 year older than last year =(
<nubae> so are u a developer in your day time job?
<bencrisford> fraid not
<bencrisford> anyway, night
<nubae> good night and happy birthday again
<bencrisford> ty =D
#edubuntu 2009-06-14
<bencrisford> morning nubae
<nubae> hi
<bencrisford1> my birthday :D
<bencrisford1> lol, im suffering though, went for a really long run :(
<nubae> heh :-)
<bencrisford1> hmm, hot bath time
<Svenstar0> Anything new about Edubuntu? No mailing list activity lately, so I don't know.
#edubuntu 2010-06-15
<gnoob> hi guys!  Installing edubuntu 10.04 from dvd now for first time :)    Anyone knows about good howtos for how to get everything set up right from now?
<gnoob> want to use thinclients? (900Mhz + 256RAM) with pxe-boot
<gnoob> 900Mhz and 256 ram should be used as thin clients or thick?
<gnoob> installation seems like it has stopped on 95%.  "Running dpkg"   Is it normal that this part goes very slow?
<gnoob> ok installation done :)
<gnoob> i cant find where to start LTSP in any of the menus.. anyone can help?
<gnoob> Do I have to install LTSP from scratch??
#edubuntu 2010-06-16
<dgroos> Good evening
<dgroos> I want to make a link from the edubuntu front page: http://edubuntu.org/ or at least from the Lucid page: http://edubuntu.org/news/10.04-release to a page on a wiki that tells how to install lucid with install options for LTSP and more.
<dgroos> 1. How do I get a link on that/those pages.
<dgroos> 2.  What is our official page on the wiki that tells how to do this install?
<dgroos> Oh yea, and which wiki would it go on, the ubuntu or edubuntu wiki?  Sorry I'm not really on top of the difference between them or better said the relationship between them.  Is there a link that describes the current relationship?
<alkisg> Good morning
<trombonechamp_> How would one go about getting software included in the edubuntu (and/or ubuntu) repos?
<trombonechamp_> is going through debian the best way?
<alkisg> trombonechamp_: I think ubuntu-motu is a better place to ask this question than in #edubuntu
<trombonechamp_> okay, thanks alkisg
<alkisg> (if it's possible to go through debian, I'd think it the best)
<highvoltage> howdy
<alkisg> Hello
<alkisg> Meeting today?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: is the meeting just quiet atm, did i miss it, or is it cancelled? :S
<bencrisford> or did i get the wrong time :/?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: none of the above!
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I didn't have my calender open so I missed the reminder
<bencrisford> highvoltage: hehe, it shows how much we all depend on you
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that's a problem then
<bencrisford> highvoltage: we probably have time now?  if its just tech updates?
<highvoltage> luckily we have you and alkisg we can rely on :)
 * alkisg unfortunately will be shifting focus to his phd for the next 2 years :-/
<highvoltage> alkisg: hectic!
<highvoltage> I'll give edubuntu some more attention again soon
<highvoltage> I finally got my Canadian visa so I'll be wrapping up a few things locally over the next week before I go
<highvoltage> we might do an edubuntu hackfest at sbalneav's place
<highvoltage> will be nice if that works out :)
<alkisg> Very cool... I wish I could come
<bencrisford> Woo hackfest :)
#edubuntu 2010-06-17
<Lns> Thought I'd share this article with you guys, I submitted this to a California local educational tech magazine, hopefully they'll be publishing it in their next issue which is focussed on open source - http://www.logicalnetworking.net/?p=924 (sorry about the dupe if you're in #ltsp as well)
<bencrisford> Lns: cool! :)
<Lns> thanks bencrisford =)
<Lns> i hope it gets published
<bencrisford> Lns: Will be good if it does, it really sells the whole open source philosophy perfectly :)
<Lns> I really dug deep to get the core points across in a readable manner, glad to hear it worked for you :)
<bencrisford> Lns: it sort of has the feel of a richard stallman essay, its definately a winner :)
<Lns> wow!
<Lns> well thank you...i've got nothing on richard stallman, but thanks! Hehe
<bencrisford> :D
#edubuntu 2010-06-18
<pleia2> wow, thanks for that link, I'm working with another group in california which is doing the same thing,
<pleia2> oh, he's gone :\
 * pleia2 emails
<alkisg> Good morning
<Lns> pleia2: ping?
<pleia2> Lns: hey! just sent an email to you and a couple of the partimus folks
<Lns> oh good!
<Lns> I am really happy you contacted me, it's surprising how synchronous our timing was yesterday.
<pleia2> yeah, I think all the timing here was quite fortunate, partimus has been chugging along for a few years but I just got on board a couple weeks ago
<Lns> that's awesome
<Lns> what are you doing there primarily?
<pleia2> I'm a linux sysadmin by trade, but they brought me in to help get the word out about the organization, help create partnerships, help document their infrastructures and get more stuff put on their website
<Lns> nice.
<Lns> <-- well here's a partnership for ya right here!
<pleia2> woohoo :)
<pleia2> ok, I'm running off to lunch and then I have to get back to work, but I'll certainly be in touch
<Lns> Basically, with my business, I've been steering toward Linux in schools (primarily LTSP installations) but yesterday I came to sort of an epiphany that I want to focus even more on helping underpriveleged students with technology (linux specifically), whether LTSP or standalone installations.
<Lns> Ok I'll copy that to the e-mail =)
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I believe partimus is almost all stand alone installs (but they're installed with an automated system somehow, so it's not like they're popping a CD in every machine and doing an install)
<pleia2> anyway, sounds great :)
<Lns> sure
<Lns> for sure, have a good lunch, we'll be in touch for sure
<pleia2> thanks, take care
<Lns> you too
<Lns> http://partimus.org/ - everyone here should check this site out, great little non-profit out in Berkeley, California for getting technology and Linux into underpriveleged schools
#edubuntu 2010-06-19
<kanhiya> where to download edubuntu 10.04 add on cd
<kanhiya> like 9.04 add on cd which can be installed on ubuntu9.04
<kanhiya> is anybody listening me
<kanhiya> hello
<dgroos> Hmmm... just saw kanhiya's comment now.  That can be confusing for the new person, that 10.04 has it all on a DVD and does not need an add on cd anymore.
<bencrisford> dgroos: yeah, its a shame nobody caught kanhiya in time, looks it might have been her first experience of irc support on a more inactive channel
<bencrisford> s/her/her\/him/g
#edubuntu 2010-06-20
<dgroos> I thought it was just some quirk of search I did but I check it again (download edubuntu) and get to this page: http://www.edubuntu.com/Download
<dgroos> Under the heading for "Installation" it talks about Edubuntu 9.04 and mentions the educational addon .iso file--that's why kanhiya was asking for it.
<dgroos> highvoltage: are you conscious?  It must be about 3:30 AM for you?
<dgroos> Anyone else that can fix that page?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i imagine it can wait until he wakes up again :)
<dgroos> I guess... ;)
<Fudge> is ri-li a train game?
<Fudge> anyone got ri-li installed, cant find instructions for keyboard commands
<Fudge> no on ewilling to help then?
<rmcgougan> I am considering setting up a 64bit version of Edubuntu LTSP 10.04 how have people found setting up this server?
<Ahmuck-Sr> morning everybody
<alkisg> Hi
<Ahmuck-Jr> i've noticed mails on the list about ltsp setup, etc.
<dgroos> Hi Ahmuck-Sr and alkisg--good day, Father's Day here in the US.
<dgroos> *-Jr
#edubuntu 2011-06-13
<Dyllan> Hi all.
<Dyllan> In this directory /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg  I have the default file and then I have a few other files with acpi=off. The other files are per hardware device, so they are named after the device MAC address.
<Dyllan> But for some reason when the client PXE boots it ONLY picks up the 'default' file and not their MAC specific file, what cold be the reason for this?
<Dyllan> Oh wait! :/
<Dyllan> Fat finger problem i see it now!
<dyllan> hi.
<dyllan> My syslog file is getting bombarded with these messages: Jun 13 21:43:13 storm-server ldminfod[13187]: connect from 192.168.0.30 (192.168.0.30)  <-- the ip address changes but there is approx 2 messages of this kind every second.
<dyllan> can anyone explain this?
<HedgeMage> dyllan: 192.168.0.30 is a local IP address, so something on your local network is trying to connect to your machine over and over.
<HedgeMage> xI'm not sure what ldminfod is though
<dyllan> HedgeMage, yea i think ive worked out that because i rebooted the server while i still had clients connected they are stuck in limbo trying to establish a connection to the server...
<dyllan> or something of that sort
<HedgeMage> this is an ltsp set-up?
<dyllan> yes it is
<HedgeMage> dyllan: have you tried rebooting the clients?
<HedgeMage> dyllan: I don't really know LTSP well, so if that doesn't help you best bet is to wait around for a more experienced hand.
<dyllan> unfortunately i am off site, but before i left i tested a client and it worked fine.
<dyllan> I just poked around the log files trying to troubleshoot another problem when i saw that, so i am confident it should be resolved when the users arrive in the morning
<dyllan> or at least i hope it will !
<dyllan> thnx for ur input though, always appreciated
#edubuntu 2011-06-14
<tmaster> Hi. I've seen in Windows for FF 4 that there is the Firefox button in the upper left hand corner. How do I get that enabled in Edubuntu?
<tmaster> LIST
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<dgroos> and Good Morning
#edubuntu 2011-06-15
<iHaku> I don't mean to be a bother but what are the plans for the next Edubuntu?  I cannot seem to find a roadmap for Oneiric.
<highvoltage> good morning
<alkisg> good morning
<highvoltage> iHaku: hey there. we have a roadmap page that we need to update. I usually do it but I'm way behind on Edubuntu stuff atm
<highvoltage> iHaku: it should be up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap replacing the natty one by the end of the week
<highvoltage> iHaku: otherwise all the information is on blueprints.launchpad.net, but I'm not sure how easy it is to find edubuntu-specific information
<alkisg> highvoltage: Last week's ubuntu-meeting made me think... I'm an edubuntu member => indirect ubuntu member. The correct thing would be for me to also apply for direct ubuntu membership, right?
<highvoltage> alkisg: if you're an edubuntu member, then you're a full ubuntu member in every sense of the word
<alkisg> So no need to file an application? OK, thanks :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: nope, check your LP page: https://launchpad.net/~alkisg
<highvoltage> alkisg: the last icon on the membership icons shows that you're already in the ubuntu-members group as well
<alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers => I'm not in the list there
<alkisg> You are an indirect member of this team:
<alkisg>             Alkis Georgopoulos                            â               Edubuntu Members                                         â               Ubuntu Members
<alkisg> But sure I understand that I'm an indirect member
<highvoltage> alkisg: I think you can request to be added there if you want to, but you don't need to apply for membership again
<alkisg> Ah, nice, that sounds more logical
<alkisg> Thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> alkisg: you're welcome. not that I did anything :)
<alkisg> You provided information, it's that what IRC is for? :D
<alkisg> Heh, some of those are quite fun: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+mugshots
<iHaku> highvoltage: Thank you for the info.
<iHaku> I might not be able to package programs or anything like that, not on debian based computers anyway.  I would like to help the project.  Is there anything, on top of testing, which I could do?
<highvoltage> iHaku: no problem, we need people on pretty much anything. maintaining / writing documentation is always a big one that we need people for.
<highvoltage> iHaku: besides that there's always support on IRC / forums / lists / askubuntu.com / etc that needs attention
<highvoltage> iHaku: heck, even maintaining a list of things that new contributors could do would be *extremely* helpful :)
<iHaku> I could certainly try my hand at documentation.
<highvoltage> iHaku: hanging out in #edubuntu is also great. we often encounter things that we just don't have time to do, if you have time and feel up to it you could take it then. it's up to you :)
<GilAz> Hi there. I need help with using a bash command. Anyone care to help?
<LaserJock> does dinda ever hang out here?
<highvoltage> she used to when she was working for Canonical
<LaserJock> highvoltage: she's not anymore?
<LaserJock> that wasn't long
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm not 100% sure she's left already but it's been a few months since she said she's leaving, and I haven't seen her here since
<LaserJock> huh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: am I not making any sense?
<LaserJock> no, you are
<LaserJock> I'm just surprised
<LaserJock> she was nice, I think it's a loss for education within Canonical
<highvoltage> yep
<stgraber> highvoltage: she's no longer on directory.canonical.com
#edubuntu 2011-06-16
<charlie-tca> What is the default theme name in 11.04?
<highvoltage> it's collectively called light-themes (for the gtk themes, window decorators, etc)
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: care to be more specific? :)
<charlie-tca> I thought it would have a name, like we use " greybird"
<highvoltage> yep it's just light-themes then
<charlie-tca> Thanks
#edubuntu 2011-06-17
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess at some point we'll have to blog about the fix for http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?pid=4998871 :)
<stgraber> indeed
#edubuntu 2011-06-18
<dashohoxha> Has anybody tried to install edubuntu using FAI:  http://fai-project.org/  ?
<dashohoxha> I would like to install automatically a class of computers with edubuntu, but also preserving the existing windows, which is on the first partition.
<dashohoxha> I have tried it and in general it works well, however there are still some problems.
<alkisg> Shouldn't those questions be asked in the #fai irc channel instead of here?
<alkisg> Or those problems are edubuntu specific?
<dashohoxha> Has anybody tried such an installa
<dashohoxha> FAI is debian specific
<dashohoxha> in debian it works like a charm (as I hear from the others)
<alkisg> You had some problems. Are *those* problems, edubuntu problems, or you think they are fai problems?
<alkisg> If they are edubuntu problems, then you're right to ask them here
<alkisg> If they are fai problems, why not ask in their irc channel instead?
<dashohoxha> Probably they are not edubuntu problems, but if somebody has experienced such a thing before and could help to solve them, why not?
<dashohoxha> I have asked on fai mailing lists as well.
<dashohoxha> But probably they have not tried it on ubuntu.
<alkisg> Of course you're free to ask, but if noone here knows fai, then surely noone will answer, while in #fai I'm sure everyone knows it
<alkisg> From their site, they say: Installs and updates Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, RHEL, SuSe, ...
<alkisg> So that means they tried Ubuntu
<dashohoxha> If nobody answers that's not a problem, I just tried to get help.
<alkisg> OK
<dashohoxha> Actually I would prefer that some day edubuntu has built in support for FAI, just like it has for LTSP.
<dashohoxha> So that it can be used without problems out of the box.
<dashohoxha> Their concepts are very similar, they both use DHCP, LFTP, PXE, etc.
<dashohoxha> I even had a problem while configuring DHCP, because I didn't expect the configuration file to be /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<alkisg> You mean that you want a "fai-server" package in Debian/Ubuntu? File a "Request for packaging" in one of those 2 distros.
<dashohoxha> No,  would like better support of edubuntu for fai-server.
<alkisg> I don't think distros need to support FAI
<alkisg> FAI supports distros, not the other way around
<alkisg> Does FAI require changes in the distros in order to support them?!
<dashohoxha> For example, at the beginning of installation, there are two checkboxes: [ ] Install Unity, [ ] Install LTSP. There can be a third one which says: [ ] Install FAI Server
<dashohoxha> The example configuration files provided by the fai-server package probably work well for Debian, but I would like some example config files that work well for edubuntu, and for the scenario that I described above: installing alongside with windows, which is on the first partition.
<alkisg> And debian can't be installed alongside windows?
<alkisg> I understand about the installer option you said before, but not why edubuntu would be different than debian or ubuntu
<dashohoxha> I am sure it can, but probably nobody has tried to do it.
<dashohoxha> I don't say that edubuntu would be different from ubuntu.
<dashohoxha> But I am interested on installing edubuntu, not ubuntu.
#edubuntu 2011-06-19
<RedDemon1970> hello
<RedDemon1970> can somebody please help me with connecting windows 7 and ubuntu true a network for sharing files over a network without any stuff like that i have to go to a crouded ubuntu irc where nobody can help me
#edubuntu 2012-06-12
<blackgatocatnegr> I am going to install Edubuntu 12.04 on a laptop with windows seven, any advice?
#edubuntu 2012-06-13
<WindBuntu> hi
<XDS2010_> Hi, just a small question.  One of my wireless adapters is not being picked up in gnome gui. I'm not sure if or not edubuntu is seeing it or if that is just the default action for 2 wireless mini-pci cards. Can someone help me with that.
<WindBuntu> can you connec tthat computer to the internet hard wired?
<WindBuntu> then, once hard wired to the internet, edubuntu(ubuntu) will offer you the driver, if its available, when you look in the proprietary drivers area.
#edubuntu 2012-06-15
<alkisg> stgraber: there's a bug in the 12.04 epoptes version, we're using a "vncport" variable for both viewing and broadcasting, so if a teacher does the following, "monitor student" won't work anymore:
<alkisg> monitor student, close vnc, broadcast teacher, stop transmissions, again monitor student => doesn't work
<alkisg> A new epoptes version will be released that fixes that. Since the 12.04 version, we didn't put any new features at all in epoptes, just translation updates
<alkisg> So the question is... should I cherrypick this bug for the SRU, or just ask for a sync with debian, once the newer version is uploaded?
#edubuntu 2012-06-16
<sleax> hi to all
<sleax> hi to all, what's the users nobody, nobody4 and noaccess in unix-like systems?
<alkisg> http://koeritz.org/docs/base-passwd/users-and-groups.html
<alkisg> Edubuntu doesn't have nobody4 and noaccess
<sleax> thx
<sammymax33> Anyone help a newby?
<sammymax33> ltsp question?
<alkisg> !question
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<sammymax33> Just loaded Edubuntu including the LSTP, I hook up my clients (old laptops) and it recognized and booted!!! but then I get a blank desktop nothing else?  What do I do from here?
<alkisg> sammymax33: type /j #ltsp on your IRC client to join the LTSP channel, because we have all the "factoids" for quick answers there
<alkisg> Write: /j #ltsp
<alkisg> stgraber: epoptes 0.5.5-1 is in quantal, the bug fix we want backported in 12.04 is LP bug #1013808
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013808 in Epoptes "Assist student stops working after a while" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013808
<stgraber> alkisg: thanks, I'll take a look
#edubuntu 2013-06-13
<boospy|2> hi :)
<boospy|2> i have an Problem with an new installation of Edubuntu 12.04
<boospy|2> LTSP work, but the LTS.conf is completly ignored
<boospy|2> i have running some produktive systems they are up to date and they work correctly
<boospy|2> has anyone an idea what can be? It is not the Squasfs. I copyied one working Squasfs and it is the same
<boospy|2> The Path is under /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<boospy|2> was the path changed?
<skaet> hiya highvoltage,  is Edubuntu participating in Alpha 1 next week?
<highvoltage> skaet: hey! probably not
<highvoltage> skaet: how are things?
<skaet> highvoltage, going well.   Thanks.  :-)
<skaet> highvoltage, ok.  will mark down Edubuntu as not participating in this alpha
<highvoltage> skaet: great, thanks
#edubuntu 2013-06-14
<boospy|2> have nobody my problem...?
<boospy|2> maybe the problem is this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<boospy|2> i will test it today
#edubuntu 2014-06-09
<yalu> I encounter links to http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C - has this simply been taken offline or is there a replacement for it ?
#edubuntu 2014-06-14
<Dery> hi
#edubuntu 2016-06-15
<Guest27924> how well does Edubuntu work on Raspbery Pi's can a Pi use the software as a standalone unit?
<highvoltage> Ubuntu can run on raspberry pis but there has never been an edubuntu release for those boards
<Guest27924> Thanks - is there an app pack of Edubuntu apps that can overlay on to the Ubuntu operating system?
<highvoltage> yep, you can find all the packages in software center from an ubuntu installation
<Guest27924> Many thanks
#edubuntu 2017-06-12
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-tweak-tool (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.24.0-0ubuntu2 => 3.24.1-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2017-06-13
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.13-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.14-0ubuntu3~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-backports/main) [2.13-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.10.1 => 2.14-0ubuntu3~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-backports/main) [2.13-0ubuntu3~ubuntu17.04.1 => 2.14-0ubuntu3~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-06-13
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (xenial-proposed/universe) [2.0.5+dfsg1-2 => 2.0.5+dfsg1-2ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-06-16
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (bionic-proposed/main) [3.0.1-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 3.0.1-0ubuntu2~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
