#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-10
 * IlyaHaykinson hates the wifi kernel module on this machine; keeps crashing
 * humphreybc-cell is at uds and is very busy!
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc-cell. I just woke up for UDS.
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i just saw your email to the mailing list
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: does that ppa mean that we no longer have to install tex-live from a script?
<godbyk> nisshh: If it all works well, yes, that's what it means.
<godbyk> We're just testing it now, so there are no guarantees.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok, thats good, was getting annoying having to install from a script and tweak the install
<godbyk> nisshh: I know. We're always trying to make it easier for people to contribute. :)
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> godbyk: can you have a look through my bzr script and see what you think?
<godbyk> nisshh: sure.
<nisshh> ok, gimme 1 minute and ill bastebin it
<nisshh> pastebin*
<godbyk> sure
<godbyk> I'm listening to UDS stuff at the moment, so no rush.
<godbyk> (just intro stuff so far)
<nisshh> ah right, how are you doing that?
<godbyk> streaming audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bois_dentelle.ogg.m3u (of the intro talk)
<nisshh> ah cool im gonna listen in too maybe
<nisshh> godbyk: http://pastebin.com/f92egWjR
<godbyk> you can also join #ubuntu-uds and the channel for whatever session you want to attend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation
<nisshh> im not sure that its complete yet but i think its not far off
<godbyk> the apt-get install bzr line should be inside the if-not-installed part, probably.
<nisshh> ok
<godbyk> and instead of checking for ~/.bzr, you could use 'which bzr' and check the return code.  (see 'man which' for a list of exit codes)
<nisshh> i didnt know if that would work or not
<godbyk> why not?
<nisshh> yea, i suppose ~/.bzr is not a good way to go since it could be there for numerous other reasons too and bzr might not be installed
<nisshh> godbyk: im lame at bash scripting still...
<godbyk> well, my thinking is that ~/.bzr may not exist for a new user on a system if bzr has already been installed.
<godbyk> no worries. learning is half the fun.
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> godbyk: with an if statement is it possible to do something like:
<nisshh> if which bzr == exit code 0 then echo "bzr is installed"
<nisshh> is that possible?
<godbyk> yeah,
<godbyk> if you open up the install-pkgs.sh script, I can show you code that does that.
<nisshh> ok hang on
<godbyk> if you look at (or around) line 88, you'll see a function named check_exec_file().
<nisshh> i see
<godbyk> there's some log file stuff in there that you probably don't need/want.
<godbyk> but the code with EXIT_STATUS=$? and the if..else..fi block afterwards will help you
<nisshh> yea, whats the difference between cecho and echo?
<godbyk> cecho is a function that uses color for error messages, etc.
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> what does the "return 1" and "return 0" do?
<godbyk> that's the return code for the check_exec_file() function.
<godbyk> you won't need that.
<nisshh> right
<godbyk> did that work okay for you?
<nisshh> so far yep
<nisshh> doing some more tweaking then ill test it fully
<nisshh> oookkkkkk, it doesnt check for bzr correctly
<godbyk> nisshh: I can take a look if you want to pastebin it again.
<nisshh> hmmm, ok one sec though
<nisshh> i bet you iv made some noob mistake and left like one bit out
<nisshh> here: http://pastebin.com/MaQ6kXL1
<godbyk> before the EXIT_STATUS=$? line, you need to actually call which.
<godbyk> add this line: which bzr >/dev/null 2>&1
<nisshh> hehe, thought i was missing something
<nisshh> add that line before the if statement?
<nisshh> or in the if statement
<godbyk> add that line before the EXIT_STATUS=$? line.
<nisshh> not working still, and i found out that the ssh if statement isnt working either
<nisshh> brb
<godbyk> nisshh: paste your script here: pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPbzr  and we can work on it together.
<nisshh> ok its in there
<godbyk> I've edited the script.
<godbyk> the bzr check should work now.
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> yep, works now
<nisshh> ssh key check still doesnt
<godbyk> remove the . in the filename
<godbyk> fixed in pad
<nisshh> excellent, works nicely now
<godbyk> cool
<nisshh> the whole script works now
<godbyk> great!
<nisshh> yea, can you think of anything else i might need to add?
<godbyk> walk them through creating the ssh key if it doesn't exist?
<godbyk> maybe check to see if 'bzr whoami' has already been set before asking them for the info again?
<godbyk> same with launchpad-login
<nisshh> right, so try and automate as much of it as possible
<godbyk> yep
<nisshh> ok, ill get on with that after iv done my chores ;)
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> Mark just gave a shout-out to the Ubuntu Manual project.
<popey> :)
<nisshh> yaya!
<nisshh> humphreybc-cell: hey, having fun?
<nisshh> godbyk: how would i check if bzr launchpad-login has already been set?
<godbyk> nisshh: if you just run 'bzr launchpad-login' it'll give the username if it's set, I think.
<nisshh> yea it does, but what if this is the first time the user has run bzr launchpad-login?
<nisshh> should i just assume that if the user had to install bzr then they havent run it before?
<godbyk> that's probably a safe bet.
<godbyk> but bzr spits out a different message if it's not set.
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> I don't know what that msg is 'cause I've already set it, though. :)
<nisshh> same
<godbyk> gah! too many sessions running simultaneously.
<godbyk> hard to keep track of everything.
<godbyk> (UDS)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> godbyk: where can i put my bzr script, i think its pretty much ready now
<godbyk> nisshh: for now just email it to me.
<godbyk> we're going to create a new repository for our tools and scripts.
<nisshh> right
<godbyk> kevin@ubuntu-manual.org.
<nisshh> done
<godbyk> thanks.
<c7p> hello
<godbyk> I'm listening to some UDS sessions now, but I've received your email.
<nisshh> c7p: hey dude
<nisshh> anyone who gives a damn: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-developer-summit-maverick.html
<godbyk> nisshh: I think you forgot to attach the script to the email.
<nisshh> godbyk: oops hang on i keep doing that with freakin hotmail
<nisshh> ok, should be attached this time
<godbyk> it is now. thanks!
<nisshh> hehe, np!
 * ubuntujenkins can't listen to uds, I rebooted and now my sound card and my usb headphones are not wroking
<godbyk> ah, that stinks.
<ubuntujenkins> I have no clue what i did
 * ubuntujenkins aaaarrrrgggg this is anoying
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: check the volume levels and settings in the pavucontrol app?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I have no hardware except a dummy. I think its alsa
<godbyk> ah.
<godbyk> cat /proc/asound/cards
<c7p> hey godbyk I've corrected the problem on launchpad and greek translation is again 100% completed. When can, upload the pot file on the branch and see if the compilation runs smoothly
<ubuntujenkins> no such file or directory
<godbyk> c7p: thanks, I'll give it a shot after a bit.
<godbyk> (currently listening to UDS sessions.)
<c7p> godbyk: ok :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: really? wow.. is the alsa kernel modules loaded?  run 'dmesg' and check for errors related to sound/alsa.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: lsmod | grep asound
<aquarius> hey, manual guys :)
<c7p> hello aquarius
<aquarius> someone in the desktop roundtable session at UDS mentioned a session later in the week about an app developer book?
<nisshh> aquarius: hey
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: lsmod | grep asound gives nothing i am reading the dmesg output
<aquarius> I'm just about to register a session that rickspencer and I were talking about, around the idea of a manual for opportunistic developers on Ubuntu
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: so the asoundcore module hasn't been loaded.  you can try running 'sudo modprobe asoundcore' and then check the dmesg output.
<aquarius> but I don't want to do that if there already is one :)
<godbyk> aquarius: cool.  there's not one yet.
<aquarius> godbyk, sweet. I'll register one.
<godbyk> we had discussed creating one, but I don't think it's on our to do list for now.
<godbyk> (we have our hands full with our current plans)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: FATAL: Module asoundcore not found.
<godbyk> we're happy to help out, though. if you want to use our tool chain, etc.
<aquarius> that sounds useful!
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: well, that's quite odd. :-/
<ubuntujenkins> I would like to help if i haev time after doing qucikshot aquarius
<ubuntujenkins> the only thing i did was boot into windows as i had to do some group stuff on there
<aquarius> ubuntujenkins, cool! Are you at UDS, or participating remotely?
<godbyk> I'm remotely participating at UDS.
<godbyk> aquarius: if you do schedule a session, let me know when it is and I'll try to listen in.
 * ubuntujenkins is off to lectures if anyone has any ideas please let me know
<wyh> hi there. The Chinese version website still have a few strings in English. can someone check out why? It's been totally translated
<nisshh> godbyk: ^^^
<godbyk> wyh: It may be that the translations haven't been downloaded from launchpad and put into bzr yet.
<godbyk> It's a manual process -- someone has to go through the motions to carry the translations from launchpad to bzr.
<wyh> godbyk: maybe. the translation entry on launchpad keeps changing... sometime two branches, sometimes one. what's happening?
<godbyk> daker (our web developer) has been working to get the website translations sorted out.
<godbyk> here's the backstory:
<godbyk> originally, the website was in the same repository as the manual itself.
<godbyk> then we split the site into its own repository.
<godbyk> so at that point, there existed a translation file under the ubuntu-manual project and another under the ubuntu-manual-website project.
<godbyk> we manually synchronized those two translations so that translators could keep working under the ubuntu-manual project umbrella as they hadn't noticed the ubuntu-manual-website project had been started.
<godbyk> we recently closed the site translation that was under the ubuntu-manual project.
<godbyk> now, for the ubuntu-manual-website project, there were two directories: main and test.
<godbyk> the main site was the countdown page at ubuntu-manual.org
<godbyk> the test site was what we were developing behind the scenes.
<godbyk> when we released the manual at the end of April, we closed the main site (the countdown timer) and switched the site over to (what was) the test site.
<godbyk> since there were two sites under the project, they each had their own translations.
<godbyk> now we've closed the main site, since we're using the test site.
<godbyk> so the main site translation was closed recently and we're left with just the test site translation.
<godbyk> and if your brain doesn't hurt already, in a few months we will be creating a brand new site that will have its own translation. :)
<godbyk> but we'll worry about that further down the road.
<wyh> ah ha, it's a little complicated, really
<godbyk> A little bit, yeah.
<godbyk> I *think* it's all sorted now, though.
<wyh> godbyk: but some strings are not in Chinese, while they are translated on launchpad...
<wyh> they are too long paragraph mainly
<wyh> one on "about" page, one on "download-not-ready" page
<godbyk> There are basically two possible reasons:
<godbyk> 1. We haven't downloaded the translations from Launchpad since the strings were translated (so the website doesn't know that the strings have been translated); and
<godbyk> 2. We've changed the text on the website but haven't uploaded the new text to Launchpad for translation yet.
<godbyk> Both of those steps require manual work on the part of our web developer (the uploading and downloading to/from Launchpad).
<godbyk> They don't happen automatically.
<wyh> godbyk: well, as long as the book translation is not finished, you have time to adjust the website : )
 * ubuntujenkins has fixed the sound, reinstalling some packages appears to of worked.
<ubuntujenkins> have now i have meetings and lectures os have no time for uds :(
<ubuntujenkins> see you all later
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<daker> hello ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hey daker
<daker> hello @all
<daker> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> daker: pong
<godbyk> daker: Can you update the website translations?
<godbyk> Someone was in here earlier and mentioned that some of the translated strings in launchpad don't show up as translated on the site yet.
<daker> oki i'll do it
<godbyk> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: is uds over for today?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah
<ubuntujenkins> now that i have fixed sound and have time its over :( . Did i miss much?
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> hmm.. well, Mark gave a little shout-out to our project during his keynote.
<ubuntujenkins> oo nice i wonder if there is a video
<godbyk> The guys who work on Quickly and related projects had a session on writing a book akin to our manual.
<ubuntujenkins> yep i saw aqu when he was in the channel
<daker> godbyk, is therer any possibility to import translations from the ubuntu manual launchpadp page to here https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<daker> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
<godbyk> daker: If translations were done under the ubuntu-manual project, they should appear as suggestions in the ubuntu-manual-website project.  The translators would just have to choose that selection and submit it.
<daker> that's the problem
<daker> i don't want to do that
<godbyk> I don't know of a better way. Sorry.
<daker> i will download the tarball of the translations from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+templates and import it
<godbyk> daker: Be careful.  We don't want to further anger the translators. ;-)
<c7p> godbyk: what about them?
<daker> i'll follow the wiki https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTranslations
<godbyk> c7p: Daker was just looking at importing some of the ubuntu-manual translations into the ubuntu-manual-website side of things.
<c7p> godbyk: ah ok, ty for the info :)
<daker> Example directory layout for translation files
<daker> Each template (.pot) file must be in its own directory. For example:
<daker> template1/template1.pot
<daker> template1/de.po
<daker> template1/fr.po
<daker> template2/template2.pot
<daker> template2/de.po
<daker> template2/fr.po
<daker> You should follow Launchpad translation import guidelines to ensure your translation files are imported successfully.
<daker> .mo-style layouts
<daker> Launchpad will not import your files if they use a .mo-style directory layout, such as:
<daker> NOT SUPPORTED: template1/LC_MESSAGES/de/template1.po
<daker> i should put the po files in one folder
<godbyk> Ah.. so you can't import your website's .mo files?
<daker> no
<daker> i should donwload all the po files then pput them in one folder
<daker> and lp will import them
<dutchie> o/
<dutchie> monumentally tired
<godbyk> me, too.
<godbyk> And all I've done is sit in this chair listening to UDS sessions. :-/
<dutchie> i've done somewhat more than that
<godbyk> dutchie: there's a UDS session about a Launchpad translations API.
<godbyk> in case you wanted to sit in on it.
<dutchie> cycle the 5 miles in to town for a 7 am rowing session, cycle up a big hill for sports day, run 400m and 4x400m, cycle back, another rowing session, cycle home
<dutchie> :(
<dutchie> godbyk: where/when?
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk> though they keep rescheduling everything on me.
<godbyk> dutchie: it's currently schedule for tomorrow at noon (UTC+2) in the Ebene room.
<godbyk> channel #ubuntu-uds-ebene
<godbyk> audio stream: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/ebene.ogg.m3u
<dutchie> that is a pretty poor time for me
<dutchie> but i will join the channel and log it
<godbyk> they don't do much in the channels.
<godbyk> but you can also record the audio stream with mplayer, if you want.
<godbyk> I'll try to record it for ya.
<godbyk> depending on what other sessions are running at the same time, I may just attend that session.
<dutchie> thanks godbyk
<godbyk> Fresh builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<zleap> hello
<zleap> The english uk edition of Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 is not yet available.
<godbyk> zleap: That's correct.
<godbyk> It's being edited right now.
<zleap> with regard to the above, as the manual is in LaTeX would producing a a4 version be a case of changing the preamble to a4 from US
<xuacu> daker: ping
<zleap> godbyk, i take it there are other spellings being changed too, rather than just paper size
<godbyk> zleap: Yeah, it's a full-blown translation.  I haven't kept up with what all they're doing.
<zleap> right
<godbyk> For the translated versions, there will be three versions generated: (1) A4 paper, color links, for on-screen reading, (2) A4 paper, no links, for printing at home, (3) US letter paper, no links, for printing and binding via lulu.com.
<zleap> so when 10.10 is released will there be a whole new manual or a new manual + supplimentary bits to add in to the 10.04 manual
<godbyk> zleap: It will be an entirely new manual.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> cool
<godbyk> I hope it'll be cool. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have you got those pictures of the manual still up?
<dutchie> my lulu copy shipped today :)
<ubuntujenkins> has ben got his?
<dutchie> i'm sure he'd have tweeted it
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: those horrible, blurry photos? yeah.
<godbyk> he hasn't received his yet
<zleap> just asked this on the uk ubunty list, if I get any printing sponsored can we have the sponsor info on the printng somewhere
<godbyk> they didn't ship in time. I don't know if they've shipped at all yet for him.
<ubuntujenkins> zleap: I was about to write an answer to you
<zleap> iok
<ubuntujenkins> zleap: do you wan the uk version in print?
<ubuntujenkins> *want
<godbyk> zleap: I don't think it'd be an issue.
<ubuntujenkins> message sent zleap
<zleap> yes, when available,  its for the devon and cornwall Linux user group we are looking at printing some off for reference as i have suggested we givce people a copy of the manual (pdf) if we do installs
<zleap> ubuntujenkins, thanks
<godbyk> cool.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: are we adding other langauages to lulu?
<godbyk> You'll have to let us know how people like them and if there are parts of the manual that are difficult to follow.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Yeah, we'll add them to lulu as they're released.
<godbyk> No reason not to, really.
<zleap> we installed ubuntu last month at a lug meet,  and gave a bit of support this weekend just gone so i copied the pdf over at the same time as follow up support
<ubuntujenkins> zleap: Getting the uk english version form lulu will also be possible
<ubuntujenkins> (when it is out)
<zleap> ok,
<zleap> i will look in to getting one,  as i guess from lulu it will be more professionally bound,  see if my local library in torbay will carry a few copies
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: What'd it cost you?
<godbyk> Also, if you order in bulk via lulu.com, the price drops.
<ubuntujenkins> 5.17 with FREESHIP
<ubuntujenkins> all in the e-mail :-)
<dutchie> + VAT
<quickshotdevs> Factoid 'VAT' not found
<dutchie> stupid quickshotdevs
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: I am sure mine was only Â£5.17
<dutchie> hmm
<zleap> perhaps there could be a survey / feedback form on the manual site to get feedback / comments
<ubuntujenkins> I need to change the +
<dutchie> actually, might have been
 * dutchie installs unity
<ubuntujenkins> unity is just the windows seven bar on its side or at least thats how it looks
 * dutchie will try it before deciding what it's like
<xuacu> omg!!! daper is gone!
<godbyk> daper?
<xuacu> can someone contact him?
<xuacu> yep
<ubuntujenkins> daker
<ubuntujenkins> is that who you mean?
<xuacu> he's about to change LP website translations, right?
<godbyk> He was looking into it. I don't know if he's done anything yet or not.
<godbyk> What's the problem?
<xuacu> I'd like he skip asturian (ast) translation
<xuacu> because I've already done the import
<xuacu> and fixed some typos
<godbyk> xuacu: I'm not sure if he's done anything yet or not.  But you can email him at adnane002@gmail.com, if you like.
<xuacu> Thank you, i'll do it right now!
<dutchie> hmm, it's more os x-y than anything else
<dutchie> what with a dock of apps
<dutchie> godbyk: did you ever sort the translations?
<godbyk> nope
<godbyk> I haven't heard anything from anyone.
<godbyk> I told humphreybc about the issue and he was going to try to corner one of the launchpad devs at UDS
<godbyk> but he may be too drunk to remember now. ;-)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> i think danilo "untypeable cyrillic name" segan is the guy to talk to about translations
<godbyk> maybe send him an email?
<godbyk> here's what I've been posting to #launchpad:  I've had some reports recently from our translators that a number of strings have been flagged as 'needs review'.  It seems this change happened overnight.  Do you know what's happened?  (See http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/08/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t10:14 and https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01692.html for two such reports.)
<godbyk> there are more emails on our list now and more logs in our chatroom if they want further anecdotes.
<godbyk> I'm going to go read a book for a while. Then probably sleep.
<godbyk> Ping me if you need anything. (I'll have my phone nearby.)
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
 * Red_HamsterX evaluates the costs associated with rebuilding the Qs server in Python.
<Red_HamsterX> (WSGI, probably)
<Red_HamsterX> (Mostly maintenance-wise)
<Red_HamsterX> (It'd be a lot more fun, but the skillset for supporting it has to exist, and it's important that it be able to run in most environments)
 * ubuntujenkins has just had to tell his dad where the minimize button is. face to plam
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: your call, I haven't looked at the server stuff
<Red_HamsterX> Facepalm for Canonical or facepalm for computing in general?
<Red_HamsterX> Well, it's only kinda my call...
<Red_HamsterX> PHP is universal and anyone can hack it.
<Red_HamsterX> Python requires more of an investment in infrastructure and it requires a bit more diligence to produce working code.
<ubuntujenkins> I know its kinda your call just pointing out that i had seen your comment :-)
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> I assume things are read, most of the time. =P
 * Red_HamsterX is a very assuming individual.
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk-android, when you have time (or if you know offhand), could you let me know if your webhost has support for WSGI in any form? (mod_wsgi for Apache, CherryPy, the ability to just run a Python process locally, anything from http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Servers ...)
<Red_HamsterX> (Not urgent)
<ubuntujenkins> my dad is shocking at using a computer trying to tell him how to quit skype whilst on skype. I don't know how he got on there in the first place
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds unpleasant. :(
<Red_HamsterX> Though, if it's Lucid, I can see one way in which minimize might be really confusing.
<Red_HamsterX> I put my window list at the tops of my screens.
<Red_HamsterX> When I first saw the new buttons, I kept going for the '^' instead of the 'v' when I wanted to iconify things.
<ubuntujenkins> it is lucid, i offred to move the window butons but my hole family said to leave it. I was very supprised
<ubuntujenkins> *whole
<Red_HamsterX> 'Cause the window list is above, not below.
<dutchie> Red_HamsterX: interesting issue
<Red_HamsterX> I should probably propose some sort of "two arrows moving towards the upper corners" image for the art team.
<Red_HamsterX> Hi, Paul.
 * Red_HamsterX says, late-ish.
 * ubuntujenkins ubuntu manual factoid used in #ubuntu again \o/
 * Red_HamsterX joins #ubuntu again.
<Red_HamsterX> What was it?
<ubuntujenkins> !manual | Red_HamsterX
<ubuntujenkins> o manualbot is not here
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> oh, i know why
<ubuntujenkins> !manual | Red_HamsterX
<manualbot> Red_HamsterX: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<ubuntujenkins> it was sebsebseb 's idea
<c7p> hello
<c7p> godbyk are you there?
<ubuntujenkins> hey c7p
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: I think he has gone to bed
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: yes i think so :).
<ubuntujenkins> he is on uds time zones at the moment
<c7p> uds = ubuntu developer summit ?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<c7p> where it takes place? Belgium ?
<ubuntujenkins> yes utc + 1 or 2 not sure
<xuacu> utc+2
<c7p> i'm utc +3
<c7p> no significant variation
<ubuntujenkins> ok kevin is on aproximate uds time :)
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: can we recapture some screenshots ?
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: sure which ones and for which langauge?
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: let me see
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: 02-appearance-preferences , 02-help-center , 02-quickshot-home, 05-software-center,
<c7p> greek language (el)
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: just doing it now
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: ok ty :), brb (I'm logging in with the quickshot user )
<c7p> hello again :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello has i updated?
<c7p> strange I have a problem running quickshot :/ I 'll update it to see if it work again
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will brb
<c7p> ok
<ubuntujenkins> right how is it going?
<c7p> su problems ...
<c7p> :/ brb
<c7p> I've got a problem with the software sources ... can you give me the link of the quickshots repo so i can download the deb archive and reinstall the programm ?
<ubuntujenkins> +ppa
<quickshotdevs> Already using Ubuntu 10.04? Add our PPA by running these commands in a terminal(Applications â Accessories â Terminal):  $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:quickshotdevs/quickshot-release   $ sudo apt-get update   $ sudo apt-get install quickshot'
<ubuntujenkins> nope not got it hang on
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release
 * ubuntujenkins thought the bot may have it
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: ty
<ubuntujenkins> np
<c7p> pfff same thing :(
<ubuntujenkins> what happens?
<c7p> i run the program then i press the next button of the first screen
<c7p> the window disappears and that's it
<ubuntujenkins> can you run "quickshot --debug" in a terminal please
<ubuntujenkins> and pastebin the output
<ubuntujenkins> this is strange nothing like this has happend yet
<c7p> sure
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/431361/
<c7p> the cursor is still blinking
<c7p> (on the terminal)
<ubuntujenkins> are you nvidia?
<c7p> yap :D
<ubuntujenkins> what does "dkpg -l | grep disper" give?
<c7p> nothing
<c7p> (i typed dpkg)
<ubuntujenkins> opps :) .thats your problem, you need to install something. I didn't get permisson to add it to our ppa and its only needed for nvidia. It is installed when you set up the account. I expect system janitor removed it let my find the link
<c7p> actually i had no problem since i installed some drivers that drived me mad ....
<ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~wvengen/+archive/ppa get the package from here just download it then it should work
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: does installing disper help?
<ubuntujenkins> the way quickshot works is that it needs disper to handle nvidia cards. This is due to people possibly having twin view
<c7p> yes it works , yeehaa
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<c7p> after the yehha .. the system logged me out
<c7p> the good news is that i can capture the screenshots
<xuacu> c7p: ubuntujenkins is gone now
<c7p> xuacu: oh
<c7p> thx for the info
<xuacu> np
<c7p> night all
<xuacu> good night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-11
<nisshh> check this out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7707585592627775409#
<ubuntujenkins> does anyone know when the uk english version will be released? An e-mail asked on the ubuntu-uk mailing list
<c7p> hey godbyk how is it going ?
<ubuntujenkins> hey c7p I will upload the pictures as soon as i can
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: ty, sorry for the yesterday inconvenience
<ubuntujenkins> no problem c7p
<thorwil> IlyaHaykinson: hi! docbook example leads to: XML Parsing Error: undefined entity Location: http://www.netapt.com/~ilyah/ubuntumanual/ubuntu-desktop.xml Line Number 180, Column 66:
<thorwil> it complains about the ampersand
<godbyk> thorwil: I didn't say it was perfect! :)
<godbyk> It doesn't like &times; I'm guessing?
<godbyk> if so, just replace it with 'x' for now.
<godbyk> Or was there another ampersand I missed in there?
<thorwil> godbyk: well, one can always use view source
<godbyk> right
<godbyk> I just converted it by hand to give us an idea of what docbook could do.
<godbyk> what the tags looked like,
<godbyk> and to make sure it covered all the stuff we needed.
<thorwil> a long time ago i tried to write a document with docbook, rendering to pdf via fop
<godbyk> I think the only stuff not in that example is the terminal code. but that's pretty easy for docbook, I imagine.
<godbyk> I haven't figured out the docbook toolchain yet. it seems overly complicated.
<thorwil> that experiment stopped when i realized i would need some not so trivial layout to add images. so it was killed for the same reason as my earlier flirt with latex
<godbyk> I figured if nothing else, we could just run it through a script to convert to our tex code, tweak the result (for typographic perfection), and run it through xelatex to generate the pdf.
<IlyaHaykinson> thorwil: view-source on it to read the code
<IlyaHaykinson> oh, nod.
<thorwil> godbyk: yes, conversion via latex is likely easier and might lead to better typesetting. doubtful that this fop business saw the same level of refinement in that regard
<IlyaHaykinson> sorry folks. gotta go sleep. getting up early. l8r.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I just woke up.
<godbyk> Silly UDS in UTC+2. :-/
<IlyaHaykinson> heh
<godbyk> Anyway, g'night, IlyaHaykinson.
<c7p> g' morning godbyk how do the translated pdfs go?
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<godbyk> humpreybc's been chasing launchpad developers around UDS trying to get answers for us.
<godbyk> currently, they suspect it may be due to a launchpad bug that's already on their to do list.
<godbyk> I'm trying to get more details, though.
<thorwil> Ben gotta catch them all!
<c7p> we had a problem with lp but now the translation is 100%
<c7p> i think we can move on (or not?)
<godbyk> c7p: Probably.
<godbyk> If you've finished the translation, I'll rebuild the PDFs and you can start editing (fixing spelling errors, grammar errors, typos, etc.)
<c7p> we have worked on these errors with the team the previous week, also i made a change yesterday so from this aspect we are ok
<godbyk> Oh, okay. So you think you're done editing all the strings, then?
<c7p> we are walking always about the greek translation
<godbyk> Morning, synergetic.
<synergetic> morning, godbyk ^_^
<c7p> godbyk: yes :)
<godbyk> c7p: Awesome! Okay.
<godbyk> I'll write up some notes today to walk you through the next steps then, c7p.
<c7p> godbyk: nice :), if it is needed i can tell you some bugs that i found out on the pdf, when i compiled the pdf successfully yesterday
<godbyk> c7p: Sure - fire away!
<godbyk> c7p and translators: Here's the latest about the Launchpad translations issue:
<c7p> godbyk: firstly the outer page's svg wasn't generated in greek as it used to. Secondly on the "chaplinks" e.g 'Chapter î: Working with Ubuntu' are on pdf as 'ÎÎµÏÎ¬Î»Î±Î¹Î¿ ??: ??.' (only the Chapter is translated). Thirdly the heading is kind weird (i think you remember the situation)
<godbyk> We can work around the bug if I disallow translators from editing the .po files directly.
<c7p> godbyk: sorry for the intervention, you may go on
<godbyk> That's about it.
<godbyk> It's a bug in Launchpad.
<godbyk> The problem occurs when Launcpad reads the .po files. It will overwrite some of the strings in Launchpad under some circumstances.
<godbyk> To work around the bug, we can tell Launchpad to ignore the .po files.
<godbyk> This means that you can't edit the .po files directly anymore, though -- you *must* do all the work directly in Launchpad.
<godbyk> I'll email this to the list and see what others think, too.
<godbyk> c7p: If the \chaplink command is showing ??s then it means that the build died somewhere along the way. xelatex has to be run multiple times to resolve the cross-references.
<c7p> godbyk: good
<c7p> godbyk: also the pictures are a bit distorted but this happens to all the translated pdfs that I've seen
<godbyk> c7p: Distorted in what way?
<godbyk> (I'm rebuilding all the PDFs with the latest translations right now. They'll be done in about 30 minutes.)
<c7p> they aren't very clear, no big deal
<godbyk> I think that's an issue with evince.
<c7p> godbyk maybe it's evince, I ll check it
<c7p> yap i can confirm that it's an evince issue
<godbyk> c7p: In the Greek translation, string 1001 has a bug. The \gls command shouldn't be translated.
<c7p> let me correct it
<c7p> done, sorry for the inconvenience
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone know when UDS ends?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: It's over on Friday.
<Red_HamsterX> Ah. Thanks. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Did you get a chance to quickly review my whims about rewriting the Qs sevrer using Python (WSGI)?
<Red_HamsterX> I just want to make sure that wouldn't pose an insurmountable problem on your end.
<godbyk> I haven't yet. (Been wrapped up listening to UDS sessions)
<godbyk> If you go to wiki.dreamhost.com and search for python or wsgi, you can see what options are available.
<Red_HamsterX> I kinda want to try building it in Django, but fear that may be total overkill.
<godbyk> I wish I had more control over my web host.
<godbyk> But since I'm only paying US$7 a month or whatever, I can't complain too much.
<Red_HamsterX> I think I'm paying a bit less (WebFaction), but I signed up for five years.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm pretty happy with it, though.
<godbyk> I'm on Dreamhost. They're not too bad.
<Red_HamsterX> PHP is easy, but ugly and not as powerful as Python (IMO). Plus, it means maintainers would need to know two languages to hack on a single project.
<Red_HamsterX> Python CGI works, but it feels counter-intuitive and messy.
<Red_HamsterX> WSGI would work quite well, but DreamHost supports it through an extension that still isn't willing to call its WSGI support stable.
<Red_HamsterX> Django is just something I want to learn.
<Red_HamsterX> WSGI is probably the best choice overall, though, in terms of resource use versus maintainability.
<godbyk> Also, CGI is slower.
<godbyk> Yeah, it seems that dreamhost doesn't support WSGI quite yet.
<godbyk> (well, certainly not 'natively' via apache modules)
<Red_HamsterX> Speed isn't really a factor for this project, though.
<Red_HamsterX> A few milliseconds won't matter.
<godbyk> As long as our server isn't being hammered by requests.
<Red_HamsterX> Google's App Engine supports WSGI, so we could probably make the public service available there.
<Red_HamsterX> And use yours for UMP-specific activities.
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: if python, then WSGI. i'd chose pylons or turbogears over django for being designed for WSGI from the start
<Red_HamsterX> And mine for development builds.
<Red_HamsterX> Of those, which is most suited to a small service, thorwil?
<Red_HamsterX> Database manipulation isn't terribly important to this design.
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: pylons
<thorwil> turbogears is stuff added on top of pylons
<thorwil> database business is exactly what is different on the app engine
<Red_HamsterX> Pylons looks like fun.
<Red_HamsterX> Sold. :)
<thorwil> Mako seems to be a nice template language. it gets around inventing weird constructs like used in django's template language by basically just using python
<thorwil> though that means you have to trust template authors, which is why this is considered not-designer-friendly :}
<Red_HamsterX> Do you have experience with Pylons, in case I need to ask you for the term used to express an abstract idea?
<Red_HamsterX> (So I can Google more good-like)
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: not past looking at their documentation
<thorwil> http://www.mutualinformation.org/2010/03/why-i-switched-to-pylons-after-using-django-for-six-months/
<Red_HamsterX> Fair enough.
<Red_HamsterX> That's all I had as motivation for wanting to learn Django, too.
<Red_HamsterX> (Pretty-looking documentation)
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX, godbyk: are you able to grok this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_transformation
<godbyk> thorwil: works for me.
<Red_HamsterX> Makes sense here, too, based on the abstract and some of the sample models.
<Red_HamsterX> Looks similar to database concurrency problems.
<thorwil> this is the basis for what google wave and etherpad do, afaik
<godbyk> thorwil: sorry, I misread grok as a different verb.
<godbyk> I'll read it in just a moment.
<Red_HamsterX> What relevance does this have to UMP?
<Red_HamsterX> Aside from being an always-cool research domain.
<Red_HamsterX> s/cool/fun/
<Red_HamsterX> s/cool/fun/g
 * Red_HamsterX messes with reality.
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: etherpad like editing would be the ticket to a great platform for UMP
<Red_HamsterX> For writers or for users?
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see the application. :(
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: say we have our document source on such an online platform. multiple writers could edit without locks or merge conflicts
<thorwil> of course this would also need an elegant solution to markup/tagging
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: goodby to manual bzr pull and push
<godbyk> and the more granular the locking and edits are, the easier it is to avoid conflicts.
<godbyk> especially if we make it stupidly simple to make small changes -- that'll help a lot
<godbyk> then we'll have to have some videos of the diff animation, of course. :-)
<thorwil> heh
<Red_HamsterX> Wouldn't such a dynamic environment pose a great problem where versioning is concerned?
<godbyk> There's a group at my university doing some work in the CSCW field.
<godbyk> Nah, you'd just have a ton of very small-change revisions.
<Red_HamsterX> And that wouldn't pose a storage concern?
<godbyk> shouldn't be too bad.
<godbyk> plain text compresses pretty easily.
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: at some point it might. a solution could be to reduce the granularity of the history for old edits
<Red_HamsterX> So, after a milestone has been passed, start compacting changes to day/week/month-level diffs?
<Red_HamsterX> It kinda raises the question of whether diffing would even be the right solution. Maybe whole-file snapshots (compressed) would be more logical.
<thorwil> Red_HamsterX: aside of our specific needs, there absolutely should be a wiki engine with such immediate collaborative editing. one that also does wysiwyg to not force users to learn strange markup
<thorwil> i worked with the ubuntu wiki a lot, in the artwork section. feels like it stoneage. it's actually a rather high barrier to entry
<thorwil> saw lots of ways how people get things wrong
<Red_HamsterX> I've found it to be pretty average, feature-wise.
<Red_HamsterX> A decent tool for anyone experienced with other wikis.
<Red_HamsterX> But, yeah, not very novice-friendly.
<godbyk> You're think with all the research that's been done on operational transformation, that conflicts with bzr et al. would occur far less often.
<godbyk> s/'re/'d/
<godbyk> Hey, look.. Gobby's mentioned in that article, too.
<godbyk> (Gobby's UI is horrible!)
<dutchie> guess what arrived in the post today :)
<thorwil> a real doll?
<dutchie> no
<thorwil> hmm, a real manual?
<dutchie> yes \o/
<godbyk> lol
<thorwil> dutchie: cool. print alright? would you perhaps be equipped, able and willing to create some _sharp_ hi-res photos of it? of the kind one could put in a portfolio? ;)
<dutchie> able and willing, yes. equipped, no
<thorwil> dang
 * thorwil -> dinner
<thorwil> how do i get to know shipping cost from lulu?
<dutchie> it says when you order
<dutchie> but i'm not sure before then
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins mentioned the coupon "FREESHIP" in a response he just posted to the mailing list.
<godbyk> Okay, off to bed.
<godbyk> UDS may kill me yet.  Starting my day at 1 a.m. is just weird.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-12
<xuacu> hi!
<daker> hi xuacu
<xuacu> daker: have you already fixed Ubuntu-manual -website translations in Launchpad?
<daker> not yet, iam working on
<daker> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+imports
<daker> the po files want be imported
<xuacu> if you can skip ast, it would be great
<xuacu> I did it myself
<daker> i know :)
<xuacu> ok, thx :)
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: did you manage to listen in on the UDS sessions?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Yeah.
<godbyk> I'm listening to one on Nautilus right now -- or trying to. They need to speak up.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Which session(s) were you interested in?
<IlyaHaykinson> the appstore one
<IlyaHaykinson> How to deliver new, fun, and interesting applications to the current release
<IlyaHaykinson> it's at noon their local time
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. in two hours, i guess
<IlyaHaykinson> just used icecast.ubuntu.com?
<IlyaHaykinson> or was there an irc channel too?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I'm recording the sessions I'm interested in from icecast and also monitoring the irc channels.
<IlyaHaykinson> what are the channels?
<godbyk> I'll record that session for ya.
<godbyk> streams: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/
<godbyk> channels: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation
<IlyaHaykinson> ooh thanks
<IlyaHaykinson> now to decide whether i can afford to stay up till 4am my time... *sigh*
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I'm jobless (at least until the end of the week), so I'm just getting up at 1 a.m. and attending remotely.
<godbyk> It's really strange fixing lunch at 6 a.m., though.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: also, keep refreshing the schedule because they like to rearrange sessions at the last moment.
<IlyaHaykinson> heh. thanks.
<thorwil> hi vish! how's uds going for you, so far?
<vish> thorwil: in nautilus session..
<vish> :)
<godbyk> vish: transcribe it for us!
<godbyk> or tell them to speak up (talk into the microphones)
<godbyk> we can't hear much of anything.
<thorwil> vish: of course. anyone proposed to start from scratch, yet? ;)
<vish> thorwil: ha not yet ;p
<humphreybc> hello hello
<godbyk> Morning, humphreybc
<humphreybc> morning :)
<godbyk> How're you enjoying UDS so far?
<humphreybc> it's good, although I slept in this morning - didn't hit the hay till 2:30 last night
<humphreybc> was drinking with some OEM guys
<humphreybc> went out for dinner with Vishnoo and Kyle and a heap of others
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> how was your convo with kyle?
<humphreybc> good good, he toasted the ubuntu manual project :)
<humphreybc> loves what we've got planned
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> i'm not sure what's happening with some of my sessions
<godbyk> everything keeps getting shuffled about.
<godbyk> do you know if they scheduled the ui data collection one?  or is that completely off the table for uds?
<humphreybc> not sure, I talked to Charline and Ivanka about it and I think they're meant to be doing it asap
<godbyk> (if it's off the table, that's fine, I can write a better essay about it and post it to ayatana, etc.)
<humphreybc> I'll pester them again
<godbyk> lemme know if/when it gets scheduled.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> are there any sessions you think we need?
<godbyk> I'm not sure yet. I've only looked at morning sessions so far.
<godbyk> I'll plan my afternoon sessions as soon as the current session is over.
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> what are you in now?
<godbyk> I'm listening to a session on docs for packing.
<godbyk> docs for packaging, rather.
<humphreybc> oh yes?
<godbyk> yeah, I've only been half-listening, though. talking to people online.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> what was the name of that site we found, similar to ohloh that connects people to projects/
<godbyk> it sounds like a lot of people would benefit from a website that lets you write documentation using a wysiwym editor that spits out docbook underneath.
<godbyk> collaboratively, pseudo-wiki-like.
<humphreybc> yeah, exactly
<godbyk> openhatch.org I think.
<humphreybc> hence why we're going to make one at some point
<humphreybc> ah that's the one!
<nisshh> humphreybc: hey dude!
<humphreybc> hey nisshh
<nisshh> rocking out at UDS?
<humphreybc> yeah man!
<nisshh> heard you have been running around trying to get some answers for some of the devs
<humphreybc> hmm?
<nisshh> about lp translations and such
<humphreybc> godbyk, that session is on friday in snakewood: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/2010-05-14/
<humphreybc> although not linked to anything
<nisshh> humphreybc: its been really quite in here with you off at UDS ;)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> you guys shouldn't need me to tell ya what to do
<nisshh> no but its just so quite you can almost hear godbyk talking to himself!
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> we're gonna have to start kicking some mega butt soon
<nisshh> yea?
<humphreybc> shitload of stuff to do
<nisshh> meh
<godbyk> we're gonna need some more developers, I think.
<nisshh> web devs?
<godbyk> yeah.
<nisshh> well, since my chapter has sort of become obsolete for the maverick pdf then i could help out, what stuff would i need to know?
<godbyk> nisshh: I'm not sure yet. We're still working on sorting out the tech we'll need to employ.
<nisshh> right
<Daker> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> Daker: pong
<Daker> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/+imports
<Daker>   	 test/po_templates/ubuntu-manual-website/eo.po in Ubuntu-manual-website trunk series   	
<Daker> Needs Review
<Daker> 	
<Daker> Uploaded by Adnane Belmadiaf on 2010-05-11 20:10:33 WET
<Daker> No import target selected yet.
<Daker> i don't know what's happing
<Daker> i cant improved them
<Daker> approve*
<Daker> the po files are downloaded from the ubuntu manual project
<Daker> then imported there
<godbyk> maybe it's because they came from another project?
<godbyk> you might have to change some text in the .po files (like the project name or something)
<godbyk> I can't remember: Have you emailed the list and invited the translators to translate the website via https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website?
<Daker> yes
<godbyk> Okay.
<Daker> i have made some changes
<godbyk> How about I email the list and suggest that the translators double-check the website translations?
<godbyk> So they can make sure everything is still okay.
<Daker> "Project-Id-Version: ubuntu-manual\n" to "Project-Id-Version: ubuntu-manual-website\n"
<thorwil> godbyk: well, if we become serious about collaborative editing, we need a framework that supports Comet well. rules out PHP, for all i know. seaside (smalltalk) might be ok. some claim smalltalk does wonders for developer productivity and i think i love that language conceptually, but havn't used it yet. Lift (Scala) has some nice examples. a chat can be implemented with a few lines of code. same for Nitrogen (Erlang). Facebook chose E
<thorwil> rlang to implement their chat
<godbyk> I haven't used any of those languages.
<IlyaHaykinson> i don't see a ton of need for us to get into realtime collaborative editing
<godbyk> I think most of our plans will be okay without real-time collaboration.
<godbyk> Daker: Did you import the .po files because the existing ubuntu-manual-website translations were out of date?  (they were translating under ubuntu-manual and not ubuntu-manual-website?)
<Daker> no
<godbyk> Daker: Okay. What were you attempting to do?
<Daker> because i don't want people to retranslate all the strings again
<Daker> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center.html
<godbyk> Is it showing the proper translations as suggestions?
<Daker> yeah i know
<godbyk> Basically, if this is a one-time change where we can have the translators go in and accept all the suggestions real quick, then that's fine.
<Daker> importing the po files will be more quick that reselecting suggestions and submitting them
<godbyk> Daker: I understand.  Unfortunately, it's not working.  I don't know why.
<Daker> i should ask in #launchpad
<godbyk> yeah, that's probably best.
<humphreybc> So I announced the USLC on omg and my blog
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center.html
<humphreybc> let the angry comments begin!
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: i think it's a bit premature, actually.
<humphreybc> oh well
<IlyaHaykinson> i would rather that we settle the plans on our side, before pushing this out to the community
<godbyk> I think it would've been better to wait until we approached the docs team.
<IlyaHaykinson> especially as we still need to find good ways to incorporate and invite others to the process
<humphreybc> sure
<Daker> IlyaHaykinson, +1
<IlyaHaykinson> plus, honestly, we still have a ton of lucid work
<godbyk> humphreybc: also, verb tense!  future tense for things that haven't been done yet.
<godbyk> our manual isn't downloadable in different formats (only PDF).
<humphreybc> I needed a third thing to make it flow well :P
<godbyk> We don't make it available in multiple languages; we *are working* to make it available in multiple languages. :)
<humphreybc> i'm off
<humphreybc> chow!
<godbyk> see ya
<Daker> godbyk, Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 71 bytes) in /home/godbyk/bzr/ubuntu-manual-website/stats/stats.php on line 53
<Daker> http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8
<godbyk> Daker: We probably need to make the SQL queries more efficient or something.
<godbyk> Are you just pulling down the entire table and then doing the math and aggregation?
<Daker> no i just pull down the records that much with the id
<godbyk> Daker: okay, let me look at the code.
<Daker> oki
<godbyk> Daker: it's because you're looking through each individual hit.
<godbyk> I'll see if I can make it more efficient.
<godbyk> give me a few minutes.
<Daker> the Fatal error is with the php or the mysql ?
<IlyaHaykinson> gnite all
<godbyk> Daker: well, it's because the php is trying to load a whole bunch of data from the mysql server at once.
<Daker> good night IlyaHaykinson
<godbyk> and the php process runs out of memory for it all.
<Daker> ah oki
<godbyk> right now the query is returning nearly 70,000 rows of data.
<godbyk> Daker: it'll take me a bit to rewrite the stats site.
<godbyk> I'll be back in just a bit. I need to find something to eat.
<Daker> take your time
<Daker> godbyk, see that http://www.jtalkplugin.com/
<Daker> http://weston.ruter.net/projects/html5-audio-read-along/
<godbyk> cool
<Daker> the last one is very good
<c7p> hello
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<godbyk> c7p: Can you check the latest PDF I've uploaded to make sure that \ie and \eg are properly translated, please?
<c7p> sure :)
<godbyk> (The \chaplink and other cross-references aren't resolved right now because xindy hates me. :-()
<c7p> yeah the \ie and \eg work
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> Also, I think I'm going to use the same font for the heads and marginal material as I'm using for the body text: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/greek-serif-only.pdf
<godbyk> I need to do something because the current headings font doesn't have bold Greek letters.
<c7p> yes something should be done
<c7p> I have talked with topo and he suggested me the greek font that he uses
<godbyk> Which font does he use?
<daker> godbyk, we got the translations imported to the website project
<godbyk> It needs to look good for both large test (the headings) and small text (the captions and margin notes).
<c7p> http://iris.math.aegean.gr/kerkis/
<godbyk> daker: cool.
<c7p> can you tell me how can i compile some pdfs with different fonts on the heading and tell you which is the most preferable ?
<c7p> if it isn't too much advanced of course
<godbyk> It's a little advanced, but not too bad.
<godbyk> If you edit the um-greek.clo file, you can set the fonts there.
<c7p> so for the heading which lines should be altered ?
<godbyk> Let me upload my modified copy of the file and you can see.
<godbyk> I've just pushed the modified file.
<godbyk> You'll want to modify lines 14 and 16.
<godbyk> Er. 14 and 15.
<c7p> ty i think the modified will help definitely
<godbyk> Well, I can't let it remain as is, when the headings half bold and half normal weight. That's for sure! :)
<c7p> I'm happy for that
<godbyk> Did the greek-serif-only.pdf file look okay?
<c7p> yes it was pretty good
<godbyk> Okay, good.
<godbyk> Next, I need to figure out how to appease xindy to the compilation doesn't fail.
<c7p> i suggest using serif-only , it looks great!
<c7p> hope you will overcome the problem
<c7p> godbyk: is this happening only with the greek language ? If it happens so, I can seek for help from the greek community.
<godbyk> I think it's happening with other translations, too.
<godbyk> I'm still looking into it.
<ubuntujenkins> hello all 0/
<c7p> hey ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> are c7p I will do your stuff now. I have had a busy few days
<ubuntujenkins> *r not are
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: el right?
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: np :)
<c7p> yes
<ubuntujenkins> language
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: I have made i so you can redo that screenshot when you like
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: cool thx, the latest uploaded screenshots are the good ones
<ubuntujenkins> sure I will approve then asap lots of stuff to do at the moment :/
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: there is no reason to be panic :), approve them when you find time. This job isn't of very high priority now
<c7p> night all
<daker> good night c7p
<ubuntujenkins> night all o/
<dpic> hey, i wrote that Lucid Post-Install guide (TheSilentNumber)
<dpic> someone names benjamin told me i should stop by
<dpic> named*
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-13
<xuacu> dpic: hi! Are you there?
<xuacu> well, in case you read this later, this is the right channel
<xuacu> but not the right week
<xuacu> our mos active members are a t UDS :)
<xuacu> *most
<xuacu> good night everyone o/
<Red_HamsterX> dpic, you want humphreybc. As xuacu said, he's at UDS until the end of this week.
<Red_HamsterX> So you'll probably have a hard time catching him before then.
<IlyaHaykinson> wait, there's a wiki page for this already? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Ben set that up so he could point people at it during the UDS session talk he gave.
<topo_> hello godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, topo_
<godbyk> Thanks for the tip on the glsnumbers.  I'll give that a shot in just a bit.
<godbyk> Have you tested it already?
<topo_> yes
<topo_> builds fine
<topo_> i sent a copy to c7p to make a look
<godbyk> Does it just remove the hyperlinked page numbers from the glossary entries?
<topo_> no, i think i doesn't link to any glossary entries that start with a number
<topo_> there isn't any in the manual, so it works fine
<godbyk> Ah. What an odd option then. (I'm sure there's a reason for it..)
<topo_> here is a link to my build, kevin: http://kostis.topografoi.com/ubuntu-manual-el-index.pdf
<godbyk> topo_: A question: Some of the headings have semicolons at the end (;) while others don't.  What's the difference?  (Just out of curiosity.)
<topo_> the semicolon is the greek questionmark :)
<godbyk> Aha.  Cool.
<godbyk> I never would've guessed that.
<topo_> of course :) it's tricky :P
<c7p> hello all, hey godbyk
<godbyk> hey, c7p
<c7p> from what i see on the logs you finally found the solution with the help of topo
<godbyk> I haven't tested it locally yet, but it seems to work okay for topo.
<godbyk> I'm going to give it a shot in a bit.
<c7p> ok great
<c7p> i have a question, the "\glspl" is for plural and the "\gls" for singular numbers ?
<IlyaHaykinson> c7p: correct
<godbyk> c7p: Yep, that's exactly right.
<c7p> ok ty both :)
<c7p> godbyk: the \glspl is an issue cause the plural number doesn't appear with an "s" after the word , well i guess it's not the appropriate time to talk about it. You must attending UDS... so good morning (or night for you) see you later :).
<godbyk> Uh.. actually, I'm free now, but nevermind. :)
<godbyk> topo_: It looks like setting glsnumbers=false is working here, too.  I'm rebuilding the PDFs with the latest translations and uploading them now.
<godbyk> I've also committed the glsnumbers fix.
<godbyk> Thanks for tracking that down!
 * semioticrobotic is typing this on a Windows computer.  GAH!
<Red_HamsterX> :(
 * Red_HamsterX needs less Windows in his life.
<semioticrobotic> my parents asked me to install their new printer/scanner/can opener
<semioticrobotic> could be going better
<c7p> hey godbyk
<godbyk> hey, c7p
<c7p> :)
<c7p> what can we do about the plural number in \glspl ?
<c7p> things in english are simple you add an "s" on the end of the singular (most of the times) and that's it ! plural form
<c7p> number*
<godbyk> in the \newglossaryentry command, use plural={plural form of the word}
<godbyk> An example:
<godbyk> \newglossaryentry{cherry}{name={cherry},plural={cherries},description={A small, red fruit that tastes great in pies.}}
<c7p> :P nice description
<c7p> ok I will work on it now
<c7p> done
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> did that work out for you?
<c7p> i will compile now the pdf to see if it works
<godbyk> 'kay.
<c7p> it works finely :)
<godbyk> good to hear
<c7p> after that i think the only thing that we have to do is to move the margin notes, and then the pdf is ready for release
<godbyk> great!
<c7p> yap :D
<c7p> so for that job what is needed
<dutchie> lo
<godbyk> hey, dutchie
 * dutchie saw the labour leadership candidate in Worcester today
<godbyk> oh?
<dutchie> being interviewed
<dutchie> not sure what he was doing here
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-14
<Red_HamsterX> Do we get humphreybc back tomorrow?
<Red_HamsterX> (Also, will I finally feel like I know enough about the Pylons framework to start writing code tomorrow?)
<Red_HamsterX> O.O
<Red_HamsterX> Why did I just confuse this channel with another?
 * Red_HamsterX retracts his sudden huge-eye-ness.
<godbyk> Someone cited our manual. Nice!  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465450
<shrini>  thats really great
<nisshh> anyone notice that in marks keynote at UDS he mentioned a "manual" of some kind when he wqas talking about new exciting developments
<popey> he was talking about the ubuntu manual and mentioned benjamin
<godbyk> nisshh: Yeah. He had humphreybc stand up, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: yea, i didnt see that in the video though, it must be right near the end bit that i didnt watch
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
 * Red_HamsterX missed humphreybc's presence.
<Red_HamsterX> misses*
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk have a look at http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8 does it giv eto a "fatal error" as well?
<ubuntujenkins> *give you
<godbyk> yeah
<godbyk> it's because the code is too inefficient.
<ubuntujenkins> bug report it for daker?
<godbyk> basically, it's trying to copy the entire SQL table into memory.
<godbyk> nah, he's the one who told me about it.
<godbyk> I'm going to rewrite the SQL queries sometime and fix it.
<ubuntujenkins> ok fair enough I thought you may know already
<godbyk> Though if you want to file a bug report and assign it to me, that'll make sure I don't forget. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: done see Bug #580668
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 580668 in ubuntu-manual-website ""Fatal Error" on http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580668
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks.
<ubuntujenkins> np
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-15
<Red_HamsterX> Yay. humphreybc is back!
<humphreybc> something like that O.o
<Red_HamsterX> Well, you're alive.
<Red_HamsterX> That's a start.
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> still have to get back to NZ
<Red_HamsterX> So Mark singled you and the manual out during his presentation yesterday? That's awesome.
<humphreybc> on Monday, yeah
<Red_HamsterX> Oh. Well, then, I suppose news spreads slowly in here. :(
<Red_HamsterX> Still cool, though.
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> miss me?
<humphreybc> oh btw, Ivanka told me yesterday that the new ubuntu.com website will have a link to our project on the download page for Ubuntu desktop edition
<godbyk> awesome!
<Red_HamsterX> Recognition! Yay!
<Red_HamsterX> Also, yes, you were missed.
<Red_HamsterX> A little.
<Red_HamsterX> I guess.
<humphreybc> :)
<lun4tic> hm... in the build of the germanversion from https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-de.pdf all "chapter" texts say "kapitel ??:??" is that a bug or a feature? XD
<lun4tic> cause i thought the chapter numbering was allready complete
<godbyk> lun4tic: It's because the build script was using the old index command instead of the new one. (So the build failed.)
<godbyk> I'm updating the build script today to that it'll work again.
<lun4tic> wanna see real bad translation? go to microsoft office live FAQ... they translated "mobile devices" to german as "unterwegs gerÃ¤tens" XD which means kind of "on my way deviceses"
<lun4tic> "Creative Commons ist nicht Partei dieser Lizenz" on the manual page 158 sounds weird
<lun4tic> cause "partei" is more used as term for "political party" to express groups with different oppinions. i tried to find the original english sentence in launchpad but could not find it
<godbyk> lun4tic: The license text must be exactly what we receive from the Creative Commons site -- regardless of how poor the translation.
<lun4tic> i guess it should mean something like "Lizenzgeber" but i gotta check the english original to translate it the right way
<lun4tic> ok
<lun4tic> so it's a 1:1 copy
<godbyk> Yeah
<lun4tic> then i guess it's ok
<godbyk> Sorry about that.
<godbyk> There are some bugs in the English version, too.  (They reference the wrong section at one point, for instance.)
<godbyk> But we have to leave them as-is.
<lun4tic> just the licence :D
<godbyk> (We're working with the CC folks to improve their translations, though. So you might wish to report your bug to them.)
<lun4tic> as long as the content of the book is ok that is supposed to help people understand and use ubuntu i don't care about external bad translation ^^ but i thought that text would be editable too :)
<godbyk> Right.
<godbyk> We looked into it, but the CC lawyers said, 'Don't touch!' :)
<thorwil> lun4tic: ich nenne meinen musik-spieler unterwegsgerÃ¤t all die zeit! ^^
 * thorwil enjoys http://twitter.com/westerwave once more
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, any thoughts on dropping the concept of a dedicated "reference" screenshot entirely, in favour of just having the server serve the first accepted image, in whichever language it happens to be?
<Red_HamsterX> (Also on letting the client specify, via query arguments, compression details for the reference images to pull, for on-the-fly JPEG compression)
 * Red_HamsterX plans to get the database schema and possibly some file-management code into the repository today.
<godbyk> New builds are up: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: hmm, that would leave an empty box in the ui until the first one is taken. We only had a few errors as this cycle but as people want more complex screenshots it could mean more errors. But then the reference ones could be made by the project member going through and doing them all......
 * ubuntujenkins is unsure
<Red_HamsterX> Having the person writing the instructions (or someone else with direct access to that person) was my usage scenario.
<Red_HamsterX> To get the reference images, someone with the project would need to go through all the steps anyway...
<Red_HamsterX> And the images can be approved within the web UI, without needing to wait for everything to be gathered.
<ubuntujenkins> but if we did that way they could all be captured with quickshot and there wouldn't be a need to use the normal screenshot tool. I like it lets go for it. no reference shots untill the first one is taken.
<Red_HamsterX> Yay for process efficiency!
<c7p> hello :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: can you create a file that calls the windows inividually? I had a go a while ago but with no luck. I asked Sunk to have a go if he could I haven't heard much since. once one is done i should be able to do the others.
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<ubuntujenkins> hello c7p
<Red_HamsterX> The idea would be to create a bunch of files.
<Red_HamsterX> Each one contains a single window's class.
<Red_HamsterX> the "if __name__ == '__main__':' block would populate it with dummy data and run a self-contained GTK app.
<ubuntujenkins> I tried, that but i don't think i understand classes properly
<ubuntujenkins> *that = the whole seperate file thing
<Red_HamsterX> Okay. I'll take a look at what you've got soon.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless you just want a simple example.
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure where i put my stuff . A simple example would be apreciated
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: have you upload the screenshots on the branch ?
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: I will do it now
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: cool :)
<c7p> godbyk are you there ?
<godbyk> c7p: yep
<c7p> godbyk: nice, we have only one job to finish, the margin notes
<c7p> godbyk: I and topo who knows latex, are available to do whatever we can
<godbyk> c7p: Actually, you have a type in one of the \newglossaryentry's, too. :)
<godbyk> you have prural and it should be plural.
<godbyk> Once we're ready to work on the margin notes, there's no going back.
<godbyk> (i.e., you can't bring in translations from launchpad anymore. it'll all be manually editing the .tex file.)
<c7p> aww thx, i corrected it now
<godbyk> Once that translation comes through (so it's in the bzr repository), we'll run 'make ubuntu-manual-el.tex'.  That'll generate the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file.
<c7p> godbyk: from the perspective of text, everything is fine. The only thing that I'm not pretty sure is the misspelling of some latex commands
<godbyk> Then we'll just edit that file (and that file only) and keep it updated in bzr.
<godbyk> What questions do you have?
<c7p> none :)
<godbyk> Oh, it sounded like you had questions about the spelling of some latex commands or something.
<c7p> no I'm not 100% sure if there is a command error like the "prural"
<c7p> If the compilation process is finished successfully, this doesn't mean that every latex command is ok ?
<godbyk> Kind of.
<ubuntujenkins> can i have a hand with bzr I have just put 106 screenshots in the lucid-e1 branch. doing bzr add only adds 1 one file. is there a filter on our branch or something?
<godbyk> It means there were no errors that preventing compilation from continuing.
<nisshh> hey all, does anyone happen to have used couchgrid much?
<godbyk> If you search the .log file for exclamation marks (!), "Error:" and "Warning:" you can see things that potentially need to be fixed.
<nisshh> couchgrid as in couchdb
<c7p> today we have meeting on 20:00 UTC ?
<ubuntujenkins> sorry nisshh i haven't but try #ubuntuone they may be able to help
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: thanks dude, been trying to do this one thing for ages, really frustrating :)
<nisshh> do we have a meeting today?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know ben said every saturday but he isn't back from uds yet. I don't know either way
<nisshh> hmmm, i dont think we really need one right now do we?
<nisshh> nothing urgent to discuss
<ubuntujenkins> not that i am aware off but i haven't been doing much manual stuff recently.
 * ubuntujenkins has loads of uni stuff to do
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: any ideas why bzr is being anoying?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's it doing?
<ubuntujenkins> I have just put 106 screenshots in the lucid-e1 branch. doing bzr add only adds 1 one file.
<c7p> wow :)
<godbyk> did you run 'bzr add blah' first?
<ubuntujenkins> i did "bzr add"
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: you do know that you can do things like "bzr add foo*"?
<nisshh> im pretty sure you can do "bzr add *.png" too
<thorwil> of course
<ubuntujenkins> i was aware off that but it doesn't work however.
<ubuntujenkins> I happend to have hidden files turn on i nautulis and there is a .bzr folder in one of the screenshot folders removing that fixed it
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the suggestions.
<nisshh> must have been wondering which bzr branch to use lol
 * thorwil dislikes the hidden files/folders magic
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know how it got there
<nisshh> hehe strange
 * ubuntujenkins does face plam
<nisshh> thats linux for you :)
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: do you have the lucid-e1 branch on your computer?
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: do you have the lucid-e1 branch on your computer?
<c7p> sorry about that pidgin freezed, ubuntujenkins: yes i have lucid-e1 on pc
<ubuntujenkins> hehe can you do a pull and check the new screenshots please
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: yes they are ok, ty :)
<ubuntujenkins> good, sorry it took so long :)
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: np :)
<c7p> godbyk: I've not found any warning/errors regarding the mistype of any string, you can check it http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/433907/
<godbyk> c7p: looks okay to me.
<c7p> next step: the el.po to be updated on the branch and then edit the .tex file
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> we're just waiting for launchpad to accept the fixed translation so I can export it to our branch.
<c7p> after the compilation of the manual the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file disappears, is that natural ?
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> when you run 'make ubuntu-manual-el.pdf' it generates the .tex file in passing and cleans up after itself when it's done by removing the .tex file.
<c7p> godbyk: Could you send an email on the mailing list, containing instructions about editing the .tex file for margin notes ? I think this will not only help me and topo but all the editors who want to do the job.
<godbyk> c7p: Sure. Just as soon as I work out some of the details. :)
<c7p> godbyk: nice :)
<c7p> godbyk: we can add plural={} on a glossary entry, is there any other relevant option (I want to use it for Declension)?
<godbyk> c7p: I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like you can use \glslink{â¨label â©}{â¨textâ©}
<c7p> godbyk: ohh, cool :)
<godbyk> Where â¨labelâ© is the label used in the \newglossaryentry line and â¨textâ© is the text that appears in the main text (where you're typing the command).
<c7p> godbyk: ty very much :d
<godbyk> np
<godbyk> I need to take some time and add all that to the style guide at some point.
<c7p> godbyk: on the \glslink{â¨label â©}{â¨textâ©} , the label and text should be within parenthesis or not?
<godbyk> Just the braces: \glslink{maximize}{maximize declension text}
<c7p> godbyk: ok ty :)
<c7p> godbyk: actually on \glslink{maximize}{maximize declension text}, the maximize is verb. I have to say that I loved the \glslink at the first glance :D hehe
<godbyk> There ya go.
<daker> hello @all
<godbyk> hey, daker. how are you today?
<daker> busy day :)
<daker> UDS is over ?
<godbyk> yep
 * ubuntujenkins heads to bed night all see you in about nine hours
<c7p> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-16
<Red_HamsterX> Less productive than I'd hoped, but I think I've got the full relationship model for the server's database worked out. (And about 40% implemented in code)
<daker> guys where can i find the new ubuntu font?
<godbyk> daker: It hasn't been released yet.
<daker> oki
<daker> godbyk, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/uslc
<godbyk> daker: cool!
<daker> :)
<godbyk> You're insanely good at taking pictures and turning them into web pages. :)
<daker> not pictures, i sent a email to humphreybc then he sent me the psd
<godbyk> ah, cool.
<godbyk> still. :)
<daker> thanks
<happyaron> hi, I've just uploaded several screenshots for zh_CN language, who will review and approve it?
<daker> see with ubuntujenkins
<happyaron> daker: thanks
<happyaron> godbyk: and hi, is there any progress about the pdfs?
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I think I've got a solution to the problem of training users to expand windows without maximizing them.
<Red_HamsterX> As a plus, it'll allow us to make corners appear rounded.
<Red_HamsterX> A simple script-mapping feature on the server that, at approval-time, allows the operator to choose which filters to apply to the image with a few checkboxes.
<Red_HamsterX> Each one will take an image and apply a transformation routine to it, like how we patched the button order.
<Red_HamsterX> If we add a 1px border tyo images and overlay rounded edges with transparency, we should be able to make maximized windows look consistent enough.
<nisshh> check this out: http://poststuff5.entensity.net/051410/flash.php?media=dog.flv
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i got something for you
<Red_HamsterX> Is it candy?
<daker> wait a minute
<nisshh> really early christmas present?
<daker> no :D
<nisshh> awwwwwww
<Red_HamsterX> Even if it were, I wouldn't share. =P
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: thats a great idea.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll try to get a simple multi-window demo done for you during lunch breaks this week.
<nisshh> Red_HamsterX: is not a good idea, didnt you know that you HAVE to give me a share in it? :)
<Red_HamsterX> It shouldn't be hard to do; I'll just need to find a bit of time.
<Red_HamsterX> No... No, I did not.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX:  thanks no rush I have uni work to do at the moment. I finish in a month so down to quickshot then
<daker> Red_HamsterX, Bazaar want work for me
<daker> give me your email
<daker> he starts working :)
<Red_HamsterX> red.hamsterx@gmail.com, neil.tallim@gmail.com, flan@uguu.ca (Take your pick)
<daker> back
<daker> Red_HamsterX, now pull the server branch
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll integrate those changes as soon as they become relevant.
<Red_HamsterX> (I'm doing a from-scartch redesign right now)
<daker> oki
<Red_HamsterX> (But I'll consult your code whenever I need to do something visual)
<daker> sure
 * Red_HamsterX is trying to decide between purely natural keys and surrogates with natural indexes...
<Red_HamsterX> The longest natural key would be three columns, with a clear parent-child relationship between them.
<Red_HamsterX> So it's more of a data-usage concern than a speed concern.
<daker> can you explain what you going to do ?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm working on the multiple-projects-on-a-single-server model.
<Red_HamsterX> My main concern is with logging events.
<Red_HamsterX> Though it's probably not worth the effort I'm putting into it.
<Red_HamsterX> The overhead's, like, 20 bytes per row.
<Red_HamsterX> ...And I could probably just move that cost into the filesystem.
<godbyk> If it's something that can be easily modified/fixed later, then you can put it off. If it'll be a big hassle to change it later, better to fix it now.  At least that's the policy I usually take. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Same.
<Red_HamsterX> I just really hate surrogate keys.
<godbyk> "Move it into the filesystem".. using naming scheme? Or more reads/writes to the fs?
<Red_HamsterX> Use a naming scheme.
<Red_HamsterX> Possibly a directory hierarchy.
<godbyk> ah, gotcha.
<godbyk> as long as they're all safe names.
<godbyk> (nothing too funky that the fs will disallow as a file/dir name)
<godbyk> .. and as long as it won't hit any limitations of the fs (max files per dir, etc.).
<Red_HamsterX> A bigger concern is probably making sure the server's owner can freely hack data, if some sort of problem comes up.
<godbyk> right.
<Red_HamsterX> Which is one of the main reasons why I hate surrogate keys.
<godbyk> that's true, too
<godbyk> .(especially since I'm the current server 'owner'.) ;-)
<Red_HamsterX> (I'll try to expose as much maintenance logic as I can through the project-admin interface)
<Red_HamsterX> (This is just for super-unlikely situations like merging two servers)
<Red_HamsterX> (If it can be handled through FS-level syncing, then, well, yay)
<xuacu> Hi!
<xuacu> is there any TeXpert on board?
<godbyk> xuacu: Sure. What's up?
<daker> hi xuacu
<xuacu> I'm tryng to trace an error on asturian build
<godbyk> Can you paste the .log file to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and send me the link?
<godbyk> I'll take a look at it for you.
<xuacu> I got this output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434507/
<xuacu> sure ;)
<godbyk> Hmm.. strange. I'm not sure why po4a care about that.
<godbyk> Let me try to compile it here real quick.
<xuacu> ok, thx
<godbyk> It seems to be working okay here.  Try 'make ubuntu-manual-ast.pdf' and see what happens.  (You may want to run 'make clean' first to clear any old files.)
<xuacu> let me see
<xuacu> ... the same thing happens
<xuacu> let me try one thing
<godbyk> k
<xuacu> I've the same TeX live I've installed some months ago
<godbyk> It's not running tex yet.
<xuacu> I'll try to uninstall and get the ppa version
<godbyk> po4a is dying.
<godbyk> It's not a tex problem.
<xuacu> mmm...
<godbyk> Let me google around for a moment.
<xuacu> ok
<godbyk> xuacu: I updated the ubuntu-manual.cls file and pushed it. try 'bzr pull' and then 'make mylang' again.
<godbyk> I have no idea if it'll help or not.
<xuacu> ok
<godbyk> I think the problem may be that the colophon isn't in the translation template.
<godbyk> In fact, you shouldn't see that stuff anyway if you're using the lucid-e1 branch.
<godbyk> Run 'bzr info' and paste the results here.
<xuacu> wow! lucid-e2!
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> yeah, that'd be the problem.
<xuacu> I've no idea why it's on e2...
<xuacu> actually, I've no idea about bzr :)
<godbyk> :)
<xuacu> I'll try to fix that, thx
<godbyk> well, you can run 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1' to pull the e1 branch.
<xuacu> godbyk: done
<xuacu> I got an error when running make mylang
<godbyk-android> Now you can try running make mylang again from that branch.
<xuacu> but running just make before that fixes the issue
<godbyk-android> Okay. Can you paste the  error message again?
<godbyk-android> Weird
<xuacu> here you are http://paste.ubuntu.com/434526/
 * Red_HamsterX ughs at incomplete documentation.
<Red_HamsterX> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/05/reference/orm/query.html#sqlalchemy.orm.query.Query.with_lockmode
<Red_HamsterX> It'd be nice to know what values are acceptable. :(
<c7p> xuacu: I had the same problem and I overcomed it running "make clean"
<xuacu> c7p: yes, same for me
<xuacu> it looks as if manual needs one make
<xuacu> and then all goes fine
<godbyk> I'm not entirely sure what the problem is.  I've pushed a couple lines of code that may fix it though.
<godbyk> (run 'make clean' and 'rm revision.tex', then try 'make mylang' again -- after bzr pull, of course.)
<xuacu> let me see
<xuacu> godbyk: ok, now it builds
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> let me know if you see that error in the future.
<xuacu> except for errors that I'm hunting, that is :)
<xuacu> thx
<godbyk> it comes about because po4a is rather dumb. :-(
<xuacu> I need to learn really a lot
<daker> i have question
<daker> who uses wordpress ?
<dutchie> i used to, then gave up on it and wrote my own blogging platform
<dutchie> daker: why do you ask?
<daker> i will make a nice wordpress theme
<godbyk> I use wordpress still.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> I tend to change the theme on my blog every six months or so.
<godbyk> I've never found one that I've liked long-term.
<dutchie> if anyone fancies doing a design for http://www.joshh.co.uk/, i would be grateful :)
<dutchie> seeing as it's quite ugly at the moment
<godbyk> Here's my current theme: http://kevin.godby.org/
<godbyk> I rather like the minimalist, typography-oriented themes.
<godbyk> There aren't many of them though.
<daker> i'll try to make a nice one
<godbyk> Is daker bored today? :)
<daker> yes
<daker> i am waiting for replies
<daker> for my training
<godbyk> ah
<daker> and you ?
<godbyk> I'm bouncing around between a few different projects at the moment.
<godbyk> Can't seem to focus on any one of them today. :-(
<daker> question
<daker> not necessary :)
<godbyk> ok
<Red_HamsterX> Has anyone worked with OpenID before?
<daker> no
<xuacu> godbyk: are you available?
<godbyk> xuacu: sure
<xuacu> hi. Something is going really wrong here
<xuacu> when building asturian manual, the title page appears in english
<godbyk> xuacu: that's because an asturian title page probably hasn't been created yet.
<xuacu> and the main text is...
<xuacu> like Klingon to me.
<xuacu> godbyk: it's created
<godbyk> hmm..
<Red_HamsterX> I wonder what the language code for Klingon would be...
<xuacu> titles and margin notes are ok
<godbyk> paste your .log file and I'll take al ook.
<xuacu> I tried to build galician and english
<xuacu> with the same results
<xuacu> godbyk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434581/
<godbyk> Class ubuntu-manual Warning: No cover page for asturian found.
<godbyk> (ubuntu-manual)              Defaulting to English A4 cover page..
<xuacu> however, it's there...
<godbyk> xuacu: ah, I see what the problem may be.
<godbyk> I've commented out the generate_titlepage function call in the Makefile.
<godbyk> (because I got tired of it regenerating the title pages all the time on my PC.)
<xuacu> np, usually I generate it
<godbyk> does the file titlepage/titlepage-ast.pdf exist?
<xuacu> yes, it's already in Launchpad branch
<godbyk> not the svg, the pdf.
<xuacu> oh...
<xuacu> no, it's not
<xuacu> but I can regenerate it
<godbyk> you can run: 	inkscape --export-text-to-path --export-pdf=titlepage/titlepage-ast.pdf titlepage/titlepage-ast.svg
<godbyk> that'll generate it
<xuacu> godbyk: the titlepage is now there...
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> what was the other problem you were having?
<xuacu> main text is some sort of "asdf..."
<xuacu> formatted text is ok
<godbyk> can you show me the pdf?
<xuacu> let me find one of my upload sites
<xuacu> godbyk: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AI05RG92
<godbyk> that's quite odd. I don't get that on mine.
<godbyk> do you have linux libertine installed?
<xuacu> yes, I did pkgs/install-pkgs.sh and all is fine :(
<godbyk> Hmm..
<xuacu> just in case...
<xuacu> I'll try uninstall and then install again
<godbyk> 'kay.
<xuacu> godbyk:  it didn't work...
<godbyk> I'm not sure what the problem is then.
<godbyk> Sorry.
<godbyk> My version looks like the one here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<xuacu> yes, that's how it looked for me too
<xuacu> ok, I'll check system logs in case there's an answer
<xuacu> night everyone and thx o/
<godbyk> see ya, xuacu
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-12
<thorwil> godbyk: hi! are you aware of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo ?
<thorwil> godbyk: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo/
<godbyk> thorwil: Ah, no. I haven't been to any of the UDS sessions this time around.  (Time zone issues and work getting in the way.)
<godbyk> thorwil: I'll definitely read through the notes and listen to the audio recordings when they're available, though.
<godbyk> There were a couple other Ubuntu docs sessions as well.
<godbyk> And some usability/design sessions.
<thorwil> godbyk: i listened to a bit of that session ... don't think we missed much, but the planned announcement, having something to look at might become interesting
<godbyk> yeah, definitely.
<godbyk> thorwil: while I've got you here, do you have any suggestions for a good color to use for the linkx in the manual?
<godbyk> It was this brick red color, but that doesn't fit the Ubuntu color scheme.
<godbyk> And their identity documentation lists a bunch of different colors (they disagree with themselves a lot, it seems).
<godbyk> I need something that's noticeable on screen (so you can tell it's a link), but when printed in greyscale is still readable and doesn't stand out too much from the black text around it.
<godbyk> (Not asking for much, am I? ;-))
<thorwil> godbyk: well, dark red or perhaps aubergine (if you're that concerned with staying close to the visual id)?
<godbyk> I think I tried an aubergine.  I'll have to look up their suggestions for print colors again, I guess.
<thorwil> (i don't think a dark red has to be a problem, even in direct vicinity of that orange
<thorwil> )
<godbyk> (Last I left my tests in the maverick repository, it was set to some light orange.  And it's too light.)
<godbyk> The brick red color we've been using is just one that I had handy from another project. It isn't based on any sort of color theory or the Ubuntu palette.  If they have a dark red in their palette still, we could give that a shot.
<thorwil> yeah, any orange is bound to be on the light side, as in the other direction, you either go red or brown (greenish mold slime dirt yuck colored)
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I've never had browns print well.
<thorwil> godbyk: do you have the code for the orange at hand?
<godbyk> Yeah, let me find it for ya.
<godbyk> Looks like the "Ubuntu orange" that I have in the document style is #DD4814.
<godbyk> I also have a few different aubergines.  Not sure where I got them all:
<godbyk> %\definecolor{UbuntuAubergine}{HTML}{772953}% aubergine (from design.canonical.com heading)
<godbyk> %\definecolor{UbuntuAubergine}{HTML}{1A0512}% aubergine (from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=boot.png)
<godbyk> %\definecolor{UbuntuAubergine}{HTML}{6e154c}% aubergine
<godbyk> %\definecolor{UbuntuAubergine}{HTML}{4c0d34}% aubergine
<godbyk> %\definecolor{UbuntuAubergine}{HTML}{991a68}% aubergine
<thorwil> godbyk: you could try 82230b or 621209
<thorwil> godbyk: basically start from the orange, use HSL mode, reduce lightness, shift hue just slightly red-wards the lower you go
<thorwil> and no need to obsess over the last degree, as you control over the output hardware, which will vary wildly and often suck, anyway :)
<thorwil> * have no control *, even
<godbyk> that's certainly true. :)
<godbyk> Here's how the 82230b looks: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/thorwil-color-1.pdf
<godbyk> (kind of muddy, I think.)
<godbyk> building and uploading the second one now.
<godbyk> second one is up: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/thorwil-color-2.pdf
<thorwil> second looks better, but a bit subtle
<thorwil> godbyk: try a7260eff
<godbyk> uploaded: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/thorwil-color-3.pdf
<godbyk> How the color appears in print should be a secondary concern to how it appears on screen.
<thorwil> looks acceptable to me
<godbyk> (I mean, we do generate a black-and-white print edition just for printing.)
<godbyk> I think it looks good on screen.
<godbyk> And I just printed a page on my laser printer and it's readable there, too.
<thorwil> fine :)
<godbyk> done and done! :)
<godbyk> thanks for your help, thorwil.
<thorwil> that was nothing :)
<godbyk> you were just throwing out random numbers, weren't you!
<thorwil> pssst, that's the secret of all my work!
<godbyk> I knew it!
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-13
<afuentes> does anybody knows why the book is translated into galician (http://ubuntu.usc.es/manual/index/descargas) but is not available to download in the official web?
<afuentes> I checked with the translators and they told me they reported all the work back to ubuntu-manual.org but due to unknown reasons is not available in the web :S
<godbyk> afuentes: I'll look into it later today after I return from this meeting.
<afuentes> thanks godbyk
<afuentes> :D
<afuentes> also godbyk, do you know why spanish version is no available either? When I check the strings left most of them says "DO NOT TRANSLATE THIS". I saw the compiled version and I think the only thing left are localized snapshots
<afuentes> I am willing to do whatever is left to finish the manuals
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-14
<godbyk> Hey, afuentes. Are you around?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-15
<afuentes> hey godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, afuentes.
<godbyk> I took a look a the Galician translation and it looks like there are still some build errors.
<godbyk> I looked through my email and I don't think I've heard back from the Galician translation editor for a number of months.
<afuentes> Yeah, it was a long time ago I think
<afuentes> I just wanted to pick up wherever its left to make it build
<afuentes> Im not really sure what happened but they already made the complete manual available here http://ubuntu.usc.es/manual/index/descargas
<godbyk> The two errors that it shows me right now are:
<godbyk> 1. Glossary entry `Ã¡rea de notificaciÃ³n' has not been defined.
<godbyk> This means that they've written \gls{Ã¡rea de notificaciÃ³n} at some point. They shouldn't translate the \gls and \glspl commands.
<godbyk> 2. File ended while scanning use of \button.
<godbyk> This means that they wrote \button{Some text here and then they forgot the closing brace.
<godbyk> Let me see if I can find the context of the \button error.
<godbyk> Ah, search for: \item Prema no botÃ³n \button{Aplicar
<godbyk> That's the end of the line. It looks like the text was cut off or something.
<afuentes> Ill take a look at it on monday godbyk
<afuentes> can you tell me whats left with spanish translation?
<godbyk> I think the Spanish translation is pretty far along, too, if I remember correctly. Let me look.
<afuentes> thanks godbyk :)
<godbyk> It looks like the lucid-e1 edition has just 6 strings that need review.
<godbyk> The lucid-e2 edition has under 200 strings that need translating and the same that need reviewed.
<godbyk> I'm checking my email to see if anyone's talked to me about the Spanish translation..
<afuentes> im checking that
<afuentes> maybe we can finish it right now :)
<godbyk> I see a lot of people have asked about a Spanish translation, but I'm not finding much else.
<godbyk> I don't have anyone listed as the translation editor for Spanish, either.
<afuentes> how can i find the 6 lines that need to be reviewed
<afuentes> I see
<godbyk> You should be able to translate/review them here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/+translate
<godbyk> (that's for lucid-e1.)
<afuentes> i am there, but how can i filter them out?
<godbyk> I'm not much of an expert at Launchpad's translation tool.  (I try to stay away from there so I don't accidentally break something and anger the translators. :-))
<godbyk> Try this:
<godbyk> In the "Translating" dropdown box, select 'items with new suggestions'.
<godbyk> Then click the Change button.
<godbyk> On my screen, it shows 8 results then.
<godbyk> I think those are the ones that need review or translation.
<afuentes> k
<afuentes> i can do that right now
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> If you let me know when you're finished, I can grab the latest translation (though it takes a while for Launchpad to send it to me) and build the PDF.
<godbyk> Then folks can start proofreading the PDF.
<afuentes> mmm godbyk im not an expert at the launchpad translation thing either :/
<afuentes> It only allows me to make a suggestion
<afuentes> but i cant review or anything
<afuentes> is that an editor's job or ...?
<godbyk> Oh, I think you may have to be a member of the translation team or of the ubuntu-manual team or somesuch.
<godbyk> Let me poke around a bit. (It's been forever since I've looked at Launchpad's translation stuff.)
<godbyk> Okay, it's set up with "structured" permissions, which means:
<godbyk> Structured: if your project's translation group has assigned an individual or team to a particular language, only that person or members of that team can review and accept translation strings for that language. Anyone can suggest a translation for those languages, though. For languages that aren't covered by a translation group, anyone can directly submit a translation.
<godbyk> The translations are owned by the Ubuntu Translators.
<afuentes> I see, I send a request to join the group but approval is needed
<afuentes> sent*
<afuentes> I get this moving on monday I guess then :/
<godbyk> Sounds good.
<godbyk> Thanks for your help, afuentes!
<afuentes> ^^
<afuentes> im off to bed
<afuentes> byebye
<godbyk> G'night.
<Captainkrtek> hey guys
<Captainkrtek> meeting tomorrow right?
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Yep.
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Sunday at 19:00 UTC.
<Captainkrtek> will be there :)
<godbyk> I look forward to seeing you.
<Captainkrtek> you as well
<Captainkrtek> the maverick string freeze is today right?
<godbyk> Yep.
<godbyk> Well, it'll probably actually be tomorrow, but you should get any changes put in tonight if you can.
<godbyk> I've been going through and making some last-minute changes.
<Captainkrtek> anything need to be reviewed?
<Captainkrtek> I got some freetime
<godbyk> Yeah.
<Captainkrtek> tell me what pages, ill take a look :-)
<godbyk> There were a couple files that got merged in after I'd made changes.
<godbyk> We should probably skim over them to make sure they merged cleanly.
<godbyk> Let me find the files.
<Captainkrtek> okay
<godbyk> It was the installation chapter and one other.
<godbyk> The merge would've happened during r135 of the maverick branch.
<godbyk> As long as the diff for that revision looks sensible, we should be okay.
<Captainkrtek> okay
<Captainkrtek> anything else?
<Captainkrtek> any pages that need to be looked at other than that merge?
<godbyk> I don't know if there's anything in particular.
<godbyk> I'd say just poke around fix any typos you find.
<godbyk> (It seems like there's always one more spelling or grammar error!)
<Captainkrtek> hehe
<Captainkrtek> will do! Ill be around all night, so just PM me if you find any work needing attention :-)
<godbyk> Will do!  Thanks for the offer.
<Captainkrtek> no problem
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: when does the book go on sale
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: r135 looks good :-) nice work!
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: found a bug
<Captainkrtek> pg 109
<Captainkrtek> check the sidebar
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Nice catch.  I'll be going through the manual tomorrow to move the margin notes and figures around.
<godbyk> After that, I'll generate the final PDFs and upload them to ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com.
<godbyk> Then I'll generate the .pot file for the translators.
<godbyk> Then I'll setup the natty branch.
<godbyk> But right now, I'm headed to bed. :)
<Captainkrtek> im almost done
<Captainkrtek> just reviewed all of displays.tex
<Captainkrtek> found some grammatical and wording issues
<Captainkrtek> meeting soon?
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Yep. About 20 minutes.
<ChrisWoollard> evening godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
<ChrisWoollard> I am going to update the credits quickly
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> Hey, rickfosb
<rickfosb> hey godbyk
<ChrisWoollard> evening
<Captainkrtek> k
<rickfosb> I'm not at my desk today;  so I don't have access to most of my 'stuff'...
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: I fixed that one margin note
<rickfosb> how is everyone
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Ah, great. Thanks!  There are some more that I need to fix, too, but that's one of the last edits I make (as other edits can cause the margin notes to move about).
<Captainkrtek> check my last commit
<godbyk> Which one?
<Captainkrtek> umm hold on :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
<Captainkrtek> synergy is making my keyboard mess up
<Captainkrtek> sorry :P
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/maverick/revision/138
<rickfosb> godbyk: stepping away for a moment.  be right back.
<ChrisWoollard> Does anybody know what Rrohit's actual name is?
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Ah, yep. That's fine.  The optional [-4\baselineskip] argument was telling LaTeX to move the margin note up four lines.  So if it was too high, you could remove it (like you did) or adjust it manually if LaTeX's automatic placement wasn't very good.
<Captainkrtek> gotcha :)
<Captainkrtek> still learning LaTeX
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'm not sure: https://launchpad.net/~rr0hit
<Captainkrtek> UndiFineD: already got that survey in a few thousand twitter feeds
<Captainkrtek> mostly developers
<godbyk> brb. (preparing lunch)
<UndiFineD> yeah
<UndiFineD> I am hoping for some 12000 responses
<Captainkrtek> Ill promote the hell out of it again haha
<patrickdickey> Hi everyone. :)
<rickfosb_> I'm back (sort of)
<Captainkrtek> hi patrickdickey
<rickfosb_> Hi hannie
<hannie> hi ChrisWoollard godbyk rickfosb_ piratemurray
<UndiFineD> o/
<hannie> hi UndiFineD
<godbyk> Hey, hannie.
<Captainkrtek> hey guys
<ChrisWoollard> Hello Hannie
<UndiFineD> hannie, did you get to listen to all those sessions already ?
<godbyk> We'll wait a couple minutes for others to show up and then get started.
<piratemurray> hello everyone!
<hannie> UndiFineD, no
<UndiFineD> :P
<piratemurray> how are we all today?
<hannie> "We" are fine, thank you
<UndiFineD> thanks hannie noI know how I feel
<hannie> lol
<Captainkrtek> me as well ;)
<Captainkrtek> here is the agenda for today: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KvXHj1XROp
<piratemurray> quick question before we start
<piratemurray> do we have a twitter hash tag?
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Meeting agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KvXHj1XROp | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Captainkrtek> piratemurray: for what?
<piratemurray> so i can do some promotion
<Captainkrtek> piratemurray: RT me https://twitter.com/#!/Captainkrtek/status/69836680328261632
<piratemurray> drum up some interest amougst friends and twitter in general
<Captainkrtek> I already got some big people to Rt me
<Captainkrtek> i have ~500 followers
<godbyk> piratemurray: I don't think we have a hash tag, but we do have a twitter feed: @TheUbuntuManual
<ChrisWoollard> & identi.ca
<piratemurray> okie dokie thanks!
<Captainkrtek> 31 clicks on the link so far
<godbyk> Okay, let's get started.
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:07. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<godbyk> Something I forgot to do last time that I'd like to do this time 'round:
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Attendance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Attendance
<ChrisWoollard> o/
<godbyk> Give a shout if you're here.
<MrChrisDruif> Shout!
<ChrisWoollard> Boo
<patrickdickey> Shout!!
<rickfosb_> Hey!
<Captainkrtek> hola
<godbyk> Thanks! Makes it a bit easier when we're writing up the meeting minutes. :)
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick status: string freeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick status: string freeze
<UndiFineD> Boo
<godbyk> Yesterday was our scheduled string freeze for the Maverick edition.
<godbyk> We're still sneaking in a few last-minute changes today.
<ChrisWoollard> Ooops. I commited a few minutes ago
<Captainkrtek> Im still looking for anymore margin errors
<rickfosb_> Did we get all the #todo screenshots?
<hannie> Can Maverick be downloaded now (pdf, book)?
<godbyk> Once the text has been finalized, I'll make a few last-minute adjustments (to margin notes and screenshots) and publish the PDFs on the ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com sites.
<Captainkrtek> I had one thing to bring up
<ChrisWoollard> I have a copy if you want it
<piratemurray> shout out!
<Captainkrtek> in the troubleshooting guide it mentions setting screen resolution, when that is already in the Displays section
<Captainkrtek> and it seems more in depth in the troublshooting guide
<Captainkrtek> including pictures and such
<patrickdickey> Should those be flipped (the more in depth being in the Display section)?
<Captainkrtek> yeah that is what I was thinking, or say (see page whatever)
<godbyk> Hmm.. It's probably a bit late to flip them for this edition, but it's something we can do in the Natty edition.
<Captainkrtek> it's not a major issue, just odd to have more in depth in the troubleshooting section
<Captainkrtek> what about moving the pics from the troubleshooting section to the displays section?
<godbyk> I don't want to move things around at this point (because it may cause margin notes and screenshots to move around a bunch more and that can be bothersome).
<Captainkrtek> okay, understandable
<Captainkrtek> just an idea
<godbyk> But we can certainly straighten that out in the next edition.
<Captainkrtek> great :-)
<rickfosb_> Agree with godbyk
<Captainkrtek> this is my first time working on ubuntu-manual, so still learning the ropes ;-)
<godbyk> Any other comments or show-stopper bugs that anyone has found?
<Captainkrtek> Im going to look for more margin errors
<rickfosb_> Captainkrtek: should I put you down to address in the natty branch?
<Captainkrtek> rickfosb_: sure
<rickfosb_> Thanks!
<Captainkrtek> you can assign it as a bug to me: https://launchpad.net/~steven.richards
<rickfosb_> K
<Captainkrtek> thanks!
<godbyk> Does anyone have any pending changes on their hard drives that need to be committed?
<Captainkrtek> let me check
<godbyk> This is the final call for edits. :)
<rickfosb_>  none here.
<ChrisWoollard> nope
<Captainkrtek> none her
<Captainkrtek> here*
<ChrisWoollard> The credits - Team leads could do with a review
<patrickdickey> nothing.
<rickfosb_> ChrisWoollard: were you using bzr stats for that?  or do you need more?
<ChrisWoollard> I used bzr committer-statistics for the editors only.
<rickfosb_> k
<ChrisWoollard> I haven't touched authors either
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think we can continue to modify the credits section for a little bit as it doesn't impact anything else.
<rickfosb_> I know we discussed this on last meeting; I'll review the log, but believe we were not going to make any deletions, and just ensure we have the particpants noted.
<godbyk> Before I actually generate the .pot file, I'm going to be tweaking the placement of some of the screenshots and margin notes, so there will be a few formatting changes that enter in yet.
<Captainkrtek> oh one other thing, how is the index compiled?
<rickfosb_> godbyk: what's your target for having the .pot ready?  (just for my notes)
<Captainkrtek> I had one other pade to reference VLC
<Captainkrtek> page*
<godbyk> rickfosb_: I should have the .pot file generated sometime in the next day or two.
<rickfosb_> k. thanks
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: The index is pretty skimpy in the maverick edition. That's something else I'd like to improve in the natty edition.
<Captainkrtek> okay great
<godbyk> Any other comments, questions, concerns, or complaints about the maverick string freeze?
<Captainkrtek> none here
<hannie> no questions
<rickfosb_> Target for listing it on the manual site?
<patrickdickey> nothing here. I'm making the latest version right now.
<godbyk> rickfosb_: As soon as I've finalized the .pot file, I'll generate the PDFs and upload them to ubuntu-manual.org and lulu.com.
<Captainkrtek> awesome
<rickfosb_> Fantastic!
<piratemurray> grand
<Captainkrtek> good work to everyone :)
<godbyk> At the same time, the .pot file will get uploaded to Launchpad.
<hannie> Will the file (final version) be imported in Launchpad?
<godbyk> (At which point, I'll brace for the flood of angry emails from our translators because Launchpad will undoubtedly screw something up and wreak havoc on existing translations.)
<hannie> Sorry, too late
<godbyk> And speaking of translators...
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Status of translations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status of translations
<Captainkrtek> nice transition ;)
<godbyk> The Lithuanian translation of lucid-e2 should be published soon.
<Captainkrtek> I may be able to recruit some people to translate it into Czech and Slovak
<godbyk> They're the first team to translate the second edition.
<hannie> We, the Dutch team, will translate the Natty version
<Infosoft> Heh, because we've dropped lucid-e1... :)
<godbyk> We hit a few snags along the way (as I didn't have everything setup for the second edition translations and some of the TeX packages had been changed in the meantime), but it's looking good now.
<godbyk> hannie: Cool.
<godbyk> There is still ongoing work with the lucid-e1 translations, as well.
<godbyk> So we may see some translated editions of lucid-e1 in the coming weeks, too.
<godbyk> If there are other translation teams that have been working on the Ubuntu Manual and have any questions or have run into problems related to LaTeXâor if you have questions about the publishing processâplease let me know.
<rickfosb> Are we still on target for activating the Natty branch this week? (connection dropped again, sorry for the name change)
<hannie> godbyk, we intend to make people responsible for a certain chapter
<godbyk> rickfosb: Yep.  Right after the Maverick edition is published, I'll copy the source files over to the natty branch.
<hannie> like you do with authors
<godbyk> hannie: Cool.  You'll have to let us know how that technique works out for you.
<hannie> I will
<rickfosb> Our calendar said 21st of the month for Natty so, looks like we are on target.  Thanks
<Captainkrtek> good to hear
<godbyk> That's everything that's on this meeting's agenda.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<godbyk> Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
<ChrisWoollard> that was quick
<Captainkrtek> do we have anything to discuss related to UDS?
<rickfosb> I'm trying to make up for last meeting...  :-)
<hannie> How will the contact between author/editor be realised?
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: There were a few Ubuntu docs sessions as UDS-O.  I wasn't able to attend them, but they have posted some notes online.
<godbyk> (Notes that I haven't had time to read yet, but will.)
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: I could look over those notes if you find a link
<godbyk> Sure, let me dig them up for you.
<Captainkrtek> thanks
<Captainkrtek> I could do a summary of the notes as a blueprint
<godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-ubuntu-docs-goals-oneiric/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-ubuntu-docs-goals-oneiric/
<godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-documentation-pronovix-dita-drupal-demo/
<godbyk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy/
<godbyk> Those are the ones I'm aware of.
<rickfosb> hannie: I can facilitate the link up between author and editor.  I'll start some emails this week to see if we can get that started.
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: If you summarize them, just post the summary to the list.
<Captainkrtek> will do
<hannie> rickfosb, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know
<piratemurray> i take it there is no need to talk about natty for now? just that the first milestone is next week?
<hannie> rickfosb, if you need any help in bringing people together, just let me know
<godbyk> piratemurray: The natty branch will be active later this week so people can start editing the text there.
<rickfosb> all:  I'll also take a look at the teams again, and split up the work a little more as needed so we don't have multiple personalities writing the same paragraph.  ;)
<godbyk> I'll post an email to the list once it's ready.
<rickfosb> hanne: thanks will do!
<rickfosb> hannie*
<godbyk> Anything else?
<Captainkrtek> im going to start summarizing the notes
<rickfosb> nothing here.
<godbyk> Okay, then.  Have a nice day/evening/night, then!
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:36.
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks godbyk
<Captainkrtek> :)
<Captainkrtek> you as well
<rickfosb> gobyk: thanks again!
<piratemurray> thanks everyone!
<godbyk> rickfosb: No problem.
<piratemurray> bye now
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<rickfosb> godbyk: thanks
<Captainkrtek> Ill have the notes in all of your inboxes within the hour
<patrickdickey> Have a great week everyone :)
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I didn't see any mention of the developer manual in any of those notes.
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<hannie> see you all next time
<rickfosb> gotta bale.  y'all be good... see you during the week.
<ChrisWoollard> why do i get the felling it has died
<UndiFineD> ChrisWoollard, well I assume it also depends on #quickly
<ChrisWoollard> yes it does
<ChrisWoollard> nothing has happend to that has it?
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: you still around?
<godbyk> Yep, I'm here.
<UndiFineD> I think quickly itself is still much development, hard to write something with good workflow that is still very much moved around
<Captainkrtek> what if we compiled a version   for kindle?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I haven't heard boo about it lately, either.
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: That's on my to do list.  I have to sort out a bunch of stuff first, though.
<Captainkrtek> okay, ill throw that in the notes though
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: To really do the ebook thing right, I think we'll end up having to switch from LaTeX to Docbook (or some other format) as the base format.
<Captainkrtek> gotcha
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: do we have a role of Proofreader for the manual?
<Captainkrtek> cause I've done Q&A work in the past for a major technology company in regards to their KB
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: Nope. That's what the editors do.
<Captainkrtek> gotcha
<Captainkrtek> just thinking in terms of someone as a point of contact for Q&A
<Captainkrtek> maybe organize the edit process to be more efficient
<godbyk> The chapter editors and editor in chief are supposed to help out there.
<godbyk> But if you're interested in proofreading, I don't think anyone would object to you proofreading their work.
<Captainkrtek> ahh forgot about editor in chief, whoops :P
<Captainkrtek> hi c7p
<c7p> hey all :)
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<godbyk> Hope you're not here for the meeting. :)
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: ubuntu-manual@lists.launchpad.net right?
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: yeah.
<c7p> godbyk: i couldn't be there for meeting, i just enter the room to see what's going on :D
<godbyk> c7p: Ah, 'kay. Otherwise, you're an hour late. :)
<c7p> is the meeting over ?
<Captainkrtek> yeah
<Captainkrtek> it ended about 20 minutes ago
<tomswartz07> of course, right when i join. haha
<Captainkrtek> hehe
<Captainkrtek> the whole meeting is online (godbyk?)
<Captainkrtek> I think..
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: yep.
<Captainkrtek> k
<tomswartz07> someone sends out the minutes too. cant remember who
<godbyk> I'll probably scribble down some minutes a bit later and email them out.
<c7p> thx for the info :)
<c7p> do we have any new author assigned to chapters ?
<Captainkrtek> Im about to send out the UDS-O notes in relation to Ubuntu-Manual
<Captainkrtek> watch your inbox ;)
<Captainkrtek> godbyk: sent
<godbyk> Captainkrtek: thanks.
<Captainkrtek> np
<c7p> g2g guys -very busy schedule tomorrow-,  enjoy the rest of the day :)
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-08
<hannie> daker, hi
<daker> hi hannie
<hannie> daker, are you attending UDS at the moment?
<hannie> physically I mean
<daker> hannie, no, i didn't get the visa :/
<hannie> ok, thought you were there. See you tomorrow at the meeting (remote ;))
<daker> yes ã
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-09
<sagaci> ubuntu manual sesh @ #ubuntu-manual-grand-ballroom-h
<godbyk> Thanks, sagaci.
<hannie> hi all
<hannie> ok, plans are good! The realisation will follow soon
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-10
<Pro7_> finally released :::: http://static.debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-06
<hannie> hey CarstenG
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie.
<hannie> CarstenG, John is a bit worried that he hasn't received an answer to his email from you
<CarstenG> huups
<CarstenG> I forgot it :-(
<hannie> ok, valid :)
<CarstenG> I will write him this evening.
<CarstenG> I have to leave now.
<CarstenG> See you later.
<hannie> ok, thanks, see you
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-09
<thorwil> now i have a conflict in my raring branch. very much unexpected, as i was rather sure to have no unpushed changes
<thorwil> "bzr missing" lists a bunch load of revisions
<thorwil> godbyk-feynman: "bzr missing" claims i lack revisons 1 to 10!?
<thorwil> but of course, was still tracking  lp:ubuntu-manual, which is saucy now
<thorwil> godbyk-feynman: the french 13.04 title page is alright
<thorwil> slovenian title page for 13.04 pushed
<godbyk-feynman> thorwil: Did you get your bzr branch sorted?
<godbyk-feynman> thorwil: Thanks for the title pages.
<thorwil> godbyk: yes, had to change parent of my branch. np
<mike10> hi
#ubuntu-manual 2014-05-05
<jpickett> do you still need to install the upstream texlive or is the version in trusty sufficient
#ubuntu-manual 2014-05-09
<CrazyLemon> hey guys.. when will 14.04 manuals be available to download from the site? i see there are still 13.04 pdfs there
<godbyk> CrazyLemon: We're looking to release 14.04 in July to coincide with the release of Ubuntu 14.04.1.
<godbyk> CrazyLemon: We're running a bit late this cycle due to a lack of authors and editors.
<CrazyLemon> godbyk good because i just saw there are some new screenshots in there.. thanks
