#ubuntu-website 2008-07-21
<newz2000> Hi Volans, I saw 22:00 tomorrow was not your first choice, but will you make that time if we have it then?
<Volans> Hi newz2000, for me is the same , but I think that July 25th 20:00 UTC reach a greater "value" if you sum the votes
<newz2000> two people replied via email and not on the wiki which I think gives Tuesday the edge
<Volans> is a pity that only 12 people have voted till now
<newz2000> plus, one of those people was Liz who is one of the drivers
<Volans> ok
<newz2000> that's ok, if we have 12 active people for this first round of projects I'll be very excited
<Volans> yeah
<Volans> newz2000: but we don't have agreed on 20:00 utc???
<Volans> (I see 22:00 utc on the email)
<newz2000> oops
<newz2000> math error
<Volans> newz2000: you want to add the meeting to the fridge agenda?
<Volans> and we can add it to this channel's topic
<newz2000> Do you think we'll mess up the #ubuntu-meeting thing if we add it to the fridge?
<Volans> I see that there are event on fridge also in other channels, see for example this one: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1544
<Volans> at your choice...
<newz2000> Volans: sure, can you contact them and have them add it?
<Volans> ok
<Volans> newz2000: done: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1598
<newz2000> awesome work Volans. Thanks a bunch.
<Volans> newz2000: I was trying to add it to the topic but needs to be operator to do that
<newz2000> oh, right... let me see if I can remember how to do that
<Volans>  /topic text
<Volans> like:
<newz2000> it won't let me until I become operator
<newz2000> that's the part I can't remember how to do
<Volans>  /topic The Ubuntu Web Presence Team | we have an email list | see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website for more info | Next meeting wiil be held on this channel on 22nd July 20:00 UTC
<Volans> maybe with the bot?
<Volans>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-it-forum news2000 ?
<Volans> ops wrong channel :D
<Volans> I have saved it in a useful commands file
 * jpds runs away from newz2000.
* newz2000 changed the topic of #ubuntu-website to: The Ubuntu Web Presence Team | Our next meeting will be here at 20:00 UTC, July 22nd | we have an email list | see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website for more info
<newz2000> anyone know how to de-op?
<jpds> newz2000: /deop $nick
<newz2000> thanks again!
<jpds> :-)
<Volans> also the same command for op with deop instead
<ryanakca> newz2000: what license is the ubuntu07 theme (and thus my version of it) under?
<newz2000> ryanakca: I'd say the html and css are public domain, the look and feel is trademarked according to the ubuntu trademark policy
<Volans> I have to go now... newz2000 see you tomorrow, at least for the meeting :)
<Volans> I have updated also the wiki page
<Volans> with the date
<Volans> and time of the meeting
<newz2000> oh, thanks. Good idea.
<Volans> bye bey
<ryanakca> newz2000: OK.
 * ryanakca debates adding kubuntu-members to the kubuntu-website team since he's asking kubuntu-devel for contributions in regards to the theme
#ubuntu-website 2008-07-22
<mase_slapt> hey newz2000 mind if i pm you ?
<newz2000> mase_slapt: no need to ask. ;-)
<Volans> newz2000: Hi, perhaps have you planned to reply to the list's mail I have sent with the question about the start page topic?
<pep> by the way, we're porting the ubuntu08 shiÃ®t theme to drupal 6....
<pep> (hi all)
<pep> http://www.lown.de/drupal-6.2/
<pep> the guy's trying to do it real clean so that it can be re-used
<pep> (in case anyone uses a 6.x website :-)Âµ
<Volans> good news pep, are you using the theme developed by the US Locoteam you mentioned some days ago?
<pep> no
<pep> it is for drupal 5 and the menu on the right is not drupal compatible, they're hard-coded links...
<pep> http://nj.ubuntu-us.org/
<pep> not like the shipit site
<pep> so my friend Houbsi took the original shipit css and worked from there, but it's not finished yet
<Volans> oh great
<pep> yeah I'll stay in touch
<newz2000> pep: good news, please do share it
<pep> I will :)
<newz2000> Volans: I will re-read it and be prepared to discuss it for the meeting today
<newz2000> the startpage is something I defintely want to discuss
<pep> oh and he asked me how this was with the credits on the bottom of the page and the license for the theme... because there is a "Â© 2008 Canonical Ltd"
<Volans> ok, I asked because I have made a mockup example and I thinked that is better to public it after the clarification of the Start Page goal
<Volans> pep: see here: http://www.ubuntu.com/legal
<newz2000> pep: please change that to match your communitie's need
<newz2000> just observe the trademark policy with respect to the logo and name usage
<newz2000> Volans: feel free to share your mockup if you're comfortable doing so. It can only aid in discussion, not hinder
<pep> I'll try to understand that :)
<Volans> newz2000: ok :) I will put it on the wiki page soon
<newz2000> pep: this is a better link: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<pep> Ok, I suppose I have "the relevant rights and permissions from the copyright holder" :)
<pep> thanks newz2000
<pep> Ok, my questions re answered concerning trademark... Now there was another thing... he asked me if he could put on the template that it had been ported to drupal 6.x by him.. I said ihe could technically, but that wasn't really the way things are done in our community, as you'd end up with hundreds of credits everywhere over the time... now was I right saying that?
<pep> it's like crediting inside the code if you add something imo
<newz2000> I straddle the fence on this one. I know that giving credit publicly greatly helps motivate people and I suggest doing this, however putting it on the bottom of the template probably isn't correct.
<newz2000> You may want to create a "credits" page and list major contributors there
<pep> exactly
<vbabiy> Hey how are you all doing?
<pep> I thin k exactly like you, and I think this might come because we are involved in Ubuntu and know the open source way pretty well... but he had some difficulties understanding that..
<pep> fine vbabiy thank you :)
<vbabiy> Looking forward to the meeting :)
<ryanakca> Meeting in an hour?
<Volans> ryanakca: no, 20 UTC ;)
<Volans> 3 hour
<Volans> newz2000: just added my proposal to the Start Page wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidStartPage ;)
 * ryanakca nods and grumbles at poor time convertion skills
<pep> :)
 * ryanakca wonders if that's the correct spelling of convertion
<newz2000> conversion
 * ryanakca nods, thanks
<Volans> ryanakca: where are you from?
<jpds> ryanakca: 'date -u'
<newz2000> oh, that's a nice trick
<ryanakca> Volans: Kingston, Ontario :)
<ryanakca> (I guess I should specify than Ontario is a canadian province)
<Volans> too distant from GMT for a quick conversion... :)
<nand> hey
 * nand just come back from holidays
<Volans> Hi nand
<jpds> 'lo nand
<nand> newz2000: anything came up with the navigation, and specifically with the intersite nav?
<nand> sorry I didn't read all the mails yet :)
<newz2000> howdy
<newz2000> no, I've got a lengthy email to gerry in the works
<ryanakca> half the year it's -5, others it's -4, I get mixed up between the two. It would be easier if everybody just used UTC and people wrapped their head around the possibility that the sun could rise at 1300 and set at 0100 :)
<newz2000> nand: so no change yet
<newz2000> I hope to get internal discussion started this week though
<Volans> ryanakca: I will prefer so much if only DST will be used for the whole year
<newz2000> nand: mpt is the person behind launchpad's ui and is also very interested in this subject too.
<risbac> good luch Matt ;)
<risbac> luck (oupssss)
<mpt> Hello hello
<nand> okay. since we gonna again change the top navigation for QA related website plus brainstorm, I'm interested too :)
<Volans> sorry guys but now I have to go, see you later for the meeting :)
<newz2000> nand: interestingly enough, mpt reminded me that this problem existed (slightly differently) in the previous revision of the website with the bouncing tabs
<stgraber> hey there
<newz2000> making it one of our longest standing website annoyances
<newz2000> howdy stgraber
<nand> stgraber <= he's working on the QA sites
 * mpt wonders if newz2000 has any experience with making IE tolerate negative margins :-)
<newz2000> mpt: I've used negative margins..., are you doing header image replacement?
<newz2000> oh, that's negative indent
<mpt> newz2000, no, just aligning headings to the left of the rest of the section
<newz2000> mpt: the first time I did it was when I used this layout here: http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/skidoo_too/
<mpt> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
<newz2000> it uses negative margins for the left column
<mpt> Works fine in FF2, FF3, Opera, Midori, and IE for the first couple of seconds. Starts sucking in IE a couple of seconds after the page loads.
<newz2000> mpt: wow, that's an interesting problem
<risbac> an interesting problem? :) You are very optimistic, i would say a huge waste of time because of Microsoft :)
<mpt> Also works after resizing the IE window :-)
<newz2000> wow
<newz2000> mpt: if instead of -212px you use -211 does it work better?
 * newz2000 wishes for ie firebug
<risbac> Matt, did you try the developer toolbar for IE? it's nothing close to firebug or webdeveloper under FF, but it helps
<newz2000> I'm digging way back but seem to remember something about the negative indent having a prob if it matched the margin
<newz2000> risbac: I thought it died with IE 5.5
 * newz2000 googles
<risbac> this one: http://www.microsoft.com/downloadS/details.aspx?familyid=E59C3964-672D-4511-BB3E-2D5E1DB91038&displaylang=en
<mpt> newz2000, nope
 * mpt blinks
<mpt> I think I've fixed it
 * Volans back
<vbabiy> The meeting is in a hour right?
<pep> vbabiy: correct, in an hour and 10 minutes
<vbabiy> Cool
<vbabiy> see you then
<newz2000> I think the process of coordinating meetings could improve
<newz2000> Even though I know what time it is there's this fear of, "did I do mymath wrong?"
<newz2000> and really, this mess of dealing with repetitive math is what computers excel at
<pep> :)
<pep> That would be an idea...
<pep> a website dedicated to coordination.
<pep> with all meetings (logs, agendas, minutes, etc...)
<nand> the fridge? :)
<nand> but improved
<pep> yes
<newz2000> yes, but ideally, it would say, "the meeting starts in 1 hour"
<pep> imprved
<pep> exactly, and give the time in UTC as well as your current time
<newz2000> so that we don't have to worry about timezones
<nand> in #ubuntu-meeting you can ask the bot for that
<pep> I mean we are capable of doing it xD
<pep> nand: but it would be better to optimize the source imo
<newz2000> nand: its probably not appropriate while a meeting is in progress though
<pep> that is the fridge for now
<nand> indeed.
<Volans> newz2000: meeting in 8 minutes?
 * newz2000 is ready
 * vbabiy is standing by :)
<twilight> hello there
<newz2000> hello twilight
<vbabiy> hello every one
<risbac> 4 minutes? I still didn't have my dinner :)
<Volans> risbac: be very quickly or push back the dinner of one hour ;)
<risbac> I'm pushing it back! One is sleepy with a too full stomach ;)
<newz2000> I'm aiming for 40m btw with any remaining time being less formal discussion
<Volans> newz2000: checked the ubuntulog bot?
<newz2000> appears to be working fine
<newz2000> we have no way of marking the log file though, except with some visual indicator
<Volans> you can cat the log file after and put only the meeting part in another file somewhere
<mpt> -------------------------------------------------8<-------------------------------------------------
<Volans> s/cat/cut/
<newz2000> yes, that will work fine
<newz2000> or we can summarize it as minutes
<newz2000> but as I see it, we should be about ready to start
<newz2000> ----------------- BEGIN MEETING ---------------------
<newz2000> good morning/evening/afternoon everyone
<newz2000> I'm glad you could join us for our first meeting
<newz2000> My name is Matthew Nuzum, aka newz (pronounced like new zealand bout without the 'land' at the end)
<newz2000> I'm the ubuntu.com webmaster and a canonical employee
<newz2000> I'm excited to see the participation we're having in the group and hope that we can continue to make progress
<newz2000> My goal with our first batch of projects is for them to provide a good variety of meaningful work that will allow our group to show the world what we can do
<newz2000> if we succeed, and I'm sure we will, then we'll be able to move on to bigger and better things
<newz2000> Speaking of projects, this is the first thing on our agenda for this meeting
<newz2000> so I wanted to take a moment to discuss each of our tasks
<newz2000> on our homepage (our team's homepage) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website
<newz2000> you'll see the current tasks listed
<newz2000> they are:
<newz2000>    IntrepidCountdownBanners
<newz2000>     IntrepidFeatureTour
<newz2000>     IntrepidStartPage
<newz2000>     HardyStartPage
<newz2000>     CommunityWebsite
<newz2000>      CloseBugs
<newz2000> Let's start with the countdown banners
<newz2000> If you've watched the website during the last two releases you've seen a prominent banner counting down the days until release
<newz2000> we've also made it so that this banner can be syndicated on other sites too
<newz2000> for example, it's been on the fridge and many many other sites
<newz2000> the syndication occurs by a website owner copying and pasting a single line of html/javascript into their page
<newz2000> as seen here: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
<newz2000> this javascript does a simple calculation that figures out the number of days until release and loads the correct image
<newz2000> I've had numerous people say, "my specialty is web graphics, how can I help?"
<newz2000> So as I was planning this team I felt this would be an awesome first project
<newz2000> as you can see on our project page, there is already progress: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners
<newz2000> I personally don't feel like we have to choose a single banner to syndicate
<newz2000> though we will of course only use on on ubuntu.com's homepage
<pep> oh :)
<risbac> ahahah
<risbac> flooder flooder!
<pep> welcome back
<risbac> maybe we should react from time to time, like "mmm" or "oh yes"
<newz2000> hi, what was the last thing you heard me say?
<Volans> (22:16:10) newz2000: though we will of course only use on on ubuntu.com's homepage
<newz2000> oh crud
<newz2000> :-(
<Volans> (22:16:10) newz2000 ha abbandonato il canale (quit: Excess Flood).
<newz2000> what? excess flood. :-)
<Volans> yeah :)
<pep> yes
<risbac> yes, you are talking too much :)
<newz2000> nice.
<newz2000> let me see what you missed
 * ryanakca shuffles in quietly
<pep> (to be honest I was wondering if my connection was bugging when there was this 8 minute break...)
 * nand too
<newz2000> http://pastebin.com/d28e7c44a
<newz2000> wouldn't want to get booted for flooding again by pasting in whole backlog
<pep> hehe
<newz2000> lol.
<mpt> erm
<mpt> "target dimensions of 180x150, which is a standard banner ad size"
<risbac> "The images should not make reference to "Intrepid Ibex" since this is a code name that will not be used once we hit beta (when the banners start to be used)" You can explain that?
<mpt> I seem to recall that we had problems with the countdown not appearing for 8.04, precisely because it was a standard banner ad size
<newz2000> according to http://www.iab.net/iab_products_and_industry_services/1421/1443/1452
<newz2000> mpt: no that was because the word "banner" was in the url
<mpt> oh, ok
<nand> technical remark, since some content engines do not allow JS to be inserted (or filter it), why not use directly an <img> with an autogenerated image?
<newz2000> nand: we shy from dynamic content, especially something syndicated since it will impact server availability during the crushing release-day rush
<risbac> cache pbs?
<pep> nand: there can be one image done for anti-js admins, but I think that js is a good idea
<nand> the autogenerated image would use cache internally => generating the image once in a while, and storing in it cache
<stgraber> or just a simple symlink :)
<newz2000> true
<nand> too :)
<newz2000> symlink would probably get sysadmin approval
<nand> anyhow, I can provide the code if anyone wants it
<Volans> the symlink in the image server to the right image can be very quick and smart solution IMHO
<newz2000> so a lot of the images that have been proposed are in the category I'd call, "plyaing it safe."
<vbabiy> newz2000: where are these images going to be hosted?
<pep> It is a god idea.. we can push many peolpe to participate and contribute their design of the banner, and add some sort of ticker system.. it raises pride if your banner is the most used.. (what do you think?)
<newz2000> www.ubuntu.com's static media servers
<vbabiy> okay
<newz2000> pep, I'd llike to have more involvement for sure. I'm not sure what annalysis options we'll have
<newz2000> ï»¿new art tends to be a bit edgy, and then gets toned down for production
<newz2000> I'm surprised that we've not had more radical looking submissions
<newz2000> Personally, I like to see the edgy stuff so would love to see some new stuff show up
<vbabiy> newz2000: I have been working on one but haven't had a chance to finish it
<pep> Mhh.. this is a little abstract.. just an idea.. but it would be something to present to an infographics class at some school...
<Volans> be careful with the caching directive for the static image/symlink option or the browsers will cache the wrong one
<newz2000> yes, that had crossed my mind
<vbabiy> Volans: that could be a big problem
<newz2000> lets focus on questions about what type of art is useful and then move on to the next agenda item
<risbac> how about an image revealing the new look of 8.10 day by day?
<newz2000> any questions about acceptability?
<newz2000> risbac: good idea
<newz2000> I like it
<risbac> this way, it's more than "just" a number
<Volans> like a puzzle, good idea
<newz2000> it will take some coordination with the art lead and the distro team
<vbabiy> risbac: But that all depends on when the look will be finalized .
<risbac> but it would require that we have the final theme earlier ;)
<risbac> yep
<risbac> just an idea
<newz2000> risbac: it may be necessary to change the feature every four or five days
<vbabiy> risbac: yeah I do like
<risbac> if we have the theme, then why not
<newz2000> we can always use the hardy theme, I suspect the end theme will not differ greatly
<risbac> anyway, with multiples versions, we have multiple plans B...
<newz2000> indeed
<vbabiy> newz2000: but if thats the case then there won't be much surprise for the end user :)
<risbac> yes, must be something intriguing, something new
<newz2000> I'll let you artists figure that part out. ;-)
<risbac> yeah, me too, I suck in gimp ;)
<newz2000> ï»¿ï»¿I don't think we need to assign a driver for this task because everyone can lead their own idea
<vbabiy> also there are some many screen shot tour out there that people will already have seen any new looks
<newz2000> speaking of which, lets move on to the feature tour
<newz2000> this is the next todo list item
<newz2000> Assuming we pull it off, it will be featured prominantly on the ubuntu homepage and will get a lot of eyeballs
<newz2000> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/ currently
<vbabiy> wow the feature just became a more important
<vbabiy> feature tour*
<newz2000> yes, I'd love to see something that makes people scream wow!!!
<vbabiy> and fall out of their chiars
<risbac> is it just about the graphical part, or the content too?
<newz2000> lets focus on the graphical part
<newz2000> and the distro team can help us suggest content
<vbabiy> I think everything has to be top notch
<newz2000> we will then need to deliver the content near release day
<newz2000> ï»¿I don't think the layout has to be constrained to match ubuntu.com, though it should bare enoug resemblence that people don't wonder where they're at
<vbabiy> but will that still be allowed if its on the homepage
<newz2000> I think the current tour does a good job of being harmonious with ubuntu.com but still looks markedly different
<vbabiy> yeah I see what you mean
<newz2000> So the big requirement is no flash
<newz2000> as cool as it would be, we just can't use a technology that would be inaccessible to new ubuntu users
<yman> does JS support transition effects for images?
<newz2000> yes
<vbabiy> yman:
<Volans> AJAX is allowed?
<vbabiy> yeah
<newz2000> ajax is definitely allowed
<pep> Ajax is good imo...
<vbabiy> I think we can do everything we need in JS
<newz2000> I agree
<pep> yes
<risbac> pages are a bit static, we could use ajax to hide text and show it only on click with a cool effect
<twilight> I've already posted this link on our ML, what do you think of this feature tour http://www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=caratteristiche ?
<Volans> wait some seconds after the load of the page ;)
<risbac> faster would be nice yes
<newz2000> so this is good for discussion but leaves me wanting a bit more
<newz2000> and maybe if I could read italian I'd be ok
<yman> Is it possible to make images download in the background before they are displayed? How about before the img tag even exists?
<newz2000> yman: yes
<vbabiy> yman: yes
<newz2000> people visiting ubuntu.com will already have mootools in their browser cache
<vbabiy> the power of JS is very under estimated by a lot of people.
<newz2000> mootools provides excellent effects and ajax support
<ubris> the tour must also function without JS imo
<newz2000> ubris: good point
<twilight> newz2000: ahahah, the italian content is only a translation of the english version (ubuntu.com)
<newz2000> ok, the navigation on the left is site navigation then
<Volans> yes
<risbac> first page lacks some images
<Volans> the title are the equivalent of the right menu in the english version
<Volans> s/title/titles/
<newz2000> ï»¿I've seen two kinds of feature tours
<risbac> slideshows look nice, but who is really looking at them on this kind of page?
<newz2000> slide show is one, then there's the kind that show you a huge row of thumbnails through the boot up process to launching aps
<newz2000> The prob with slide shows is you can't easily get to the feature you're interested in
<risbac> we could just show ONE cap per feature, then if you click, you have a nice ajaxed galery
<newz2000> the prob with the row of thumbnails is that you can't make sense of the small thumbs and who wants to look at 20 images of the boot up process
<newz2000> yes, something like that would be good
<vbabiy> this is why I think that the ui should allow click on descriptions and display screen shots
<ubris> yeah, the web can't be made linear
<risbac> so clicking would some equivalent to "show me more plz"
<risbac> +be
<newz2000> ubris: good discription of the problem... linearity is the problem of both the slideshow and the thumb strip
<newz2000> its nice to be able to pick what you want to view
<newz2000> so this project needs a driver... someone who will take ownership of it, including soliciting and incorporating the help from others
<newz2000> I will help the driver but I'd love to someone besides me be the driver
<ryanakca> and if I can pitch in a word or two, willing to help us with something similar for Kubuntu :)
<risbac> oh a Kubuntu user! :)
<newz2000> we don't have to choose right now, but I sthere anyone who came to the meeting hoping to take on the job?
<newz2000> ryanakca is the kubuntu webmaster
<vbabiy> that brings up a good question are we going to create one for all
 * ryanakca will fire off an email to the kubuntu-devel ML after, I want to see the outcome of this meeting :)
<yman> BTW, anyone notice that the following screenshot has a glitch:
<yman> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/images/features/screens/productivity-tools/main.jpg
<newz2000> interesting find
<vbabiy> that is hard to notice
<yman> I saw it right away but forgot to file a bug report.
<newz2000> ok, one more chance, anyone here wanting to take the role as driver? If not, I'll post it to the list for decission this week.
<vbabiy> I don't mind taken this position if there is no one else, but I would really like to get help from every one.
<newz2000> vbabiy: if you want I can post it to the list so that you can ponder it a little more before commiting
<newz2000> this is one of the bigger projects
<vbabiy> yeah that works
<vbabiy> I just want it to turn out that the driver had to do all th work
<vbabiy> with a project this size
<newz2000> yes, I will try to help ensure that doesn't happen.
<pep> it is his role to delegate
<pep> well one of them :)
<newz2000> it's challenging, which is why it's taken me so long to start this team. :-)
<vbabiy> Yeah this is true, delegating is not always the easiest thing to do in OSS
<newz2000> ok, lets move on to the next item
<newz2000> intrepid Start page
<newz2000> so this is a very delicate issue, let me outline what it is first
<newz2000> when a user installs ubuntu, their browser homepage is currently set to http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/
<newz2000> it is a localized page, meaning that it will show up at least partially translated into their native language
<newz2000> this localized content is created by the doc team
<newz2000> you'll see a prominent google search box
<newz2000> this uses a google service that provides revenue for future ubuntu development
<newz2000> so in otherwords, the search box brings in revenue
<yman> It's ugly
<pep> wow
<newz2000> therefore one goal is to make it easy to use
<ubris> and you would love it if users find this all handy enough to keep as their homepage?
<yman> The results page has to be themed
<risbac> what is the goal exactly? the user should keep this page as his homepage?
<newz2000> we would, but for more reasons
<newz2000> another goal of this page is to communicate with users
<newz2000> I don't know if anyone here remembers the serous problem with X that came out about 18 months ago
<newz2000> users who performed an update lost access to their desktop
<newz2000> it was a serious problem
 * ryanakca smiles
<vbabiy> I think if its simple people will keep it, like firefox default homepage
<vbabiy> they make millions off that
<risbac> if it's useful!
<newz2000> we want to be able to continue to communicate with users if we need to
<risbac> simple is good, but not good enough i think
<newz2000> vbabiy: yes, you're right, but another option is to make it interesting
<risbac> news about ubuntu seems to be mandatory
<ubris> so it needs to work well locally, and also have remote components?
<Volans> risbac: I have made the same question on the goal of the page in the list, see ( https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2008-July/000231.html )
<risbac> yes, now we know it should be kept by users
<ryanakca> random question that'll probably never need to be considered, how will we be able to communicate with that user through the page if X is broken... most people don't know about lynx & company
<vbabiy> then thing if there is to much the load time of the page will make people change there home page to something like about:blank
<risbac> before they reboot ryanakca? :)
<yman> I think if the goal is that users keep using it as their home page, it should bombard them with a little less information and be more spaced out.
<newz2000> so Volans has asked some good questions, let me answer them here
<risbac> we can make it load dynamic content through ajax, so fast display for most of it, and the dynamic content arrives just after?
<newz2000> I'd love to have something like that
<risbac> do we have an influence on the content Matt ? (damn, I always ask the same question...)
<newz2000> risbac: yes
<newz2000> we will work with the docteam
<vbabiy> but most people to stick around the home page for that long
<risbac> yman is right, the content is NOT appealing!
<pep> no
<newz2000> it is not interesting after your second time viewing it I think
<risbac> too many sentences... too heavy
<risbac> "welcome to ubuntu"? you want to see this one ONCE! :)
<pep> and it only allows basic search of google, not images nor anything else
<newz2000> regarding google, I'm discussing with them other options
<risbac> so we have 2 missions: interesting content, sexy look?
<ubris> so ideas for compelling features?
<newz2000> risbac: yes.
<vbabiy> also not have the search to default to googl.co.uk
<risbac> easy access to help
<newz2000> or at least not annoying
<yman> I'd say it should make content easy to access, but display near to nothing by default.
<newz2000> prominent search
<pep> plus: from a design point-of-view, there should be way more space around the search box, should be more centered and intuitive to use imo...
<risbac> header is too big
<newz2000> pep: yes, you're right exactly
<risbac> we have to define the content first... what would make us keep this page?
<newz2000> and here's one big important concept to remember, and this is hard - this page is available around the world in dozens of languages and cultures
<Volans> I think that a static or semi dynamic page NOT customizable by the user can't be the user homepage, no matter how sexy and appealing it is
<risbac> you mean something like iGoogle Volans? let's hire ;)
<pep> How about doing it the other way around? using an ubuntu-ized google page instead of an own page with a google search box?
<Volans> exactly risbac, but I think that this is NOT the goal of that page
<risbac> the goal is to make the user stay? :)
<ryanakca> imho, if I were a new user, the only thing I would care about seeing is the logo, the search box, nice and big, and then underneath it, Search Web    Search Ubuntu Documentation
<yman> Didn't Google creat some FOSS implementation of Google Gadgets?
<risbac> "Get Help"
<newz2000> google gadgets are easy to use, but allowing the user to change them and have it be remembered is tricky
<Volans> IMHO the goal is to give the new ubuntu user all the useful resources where he can find help to use better Ubuntu
<ubris> what are restrictions of acceptable licenses for third-party libraries?
<risbac> and news about Ubuntu, I think it's important
<Volans> I have upload a proposal in the wiki page today, next the Lizzeh proposal
<newz2000> ubris: can you give an example?
<ubris> well, does Google Gears have unacceptable usage terms?
<newz2000> hmm. Probably not going to work since its not installed by default
<newz2000> it needs to work for users with a default ubuntu install
<Volans> just to see it if you want ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidStartPage
<newz2000> if we err, I'd prefer to err on the side of helping new users rather than catering to power users
<risbac> your proposal is nice Volans, i would just add some dynamic content
<newz2000> another problem with gadgets is that it's hard to find a selection that is meaningful to users around the globe
<risbac> and to integrate gadgets is really more complicated, maybe we can keep it for 9.04 or later?
<newz2000> that may be a good plan
<Volans> newz2000: a "static" collection of gadget will never be better than a fully customized homepage, I think is not our goal to create such an homepage
<risbac> it's hard to compete with Google, maybe we should really focus on our own strengths
<pep> compete?
<risbac> ehhhh
<risbac> frenglish
<pep> we're not competing we're working with them
<risbac> "be in a competition with"?
<pep> yes
<newz2000> risbac: right. In this way I'd like to err towards helping new ubuntu users
<pep> we are not I think :)
<risbac> but now we are talking more or less about an alternative to IGoogle?
<newz2000> I assumed he meant, "they have a choice between us and iGoogle"
<risbac> if it looks like Igoogle, but not as good, they will just not use it
<newz2000> I think power users probably already have a favorite and I'm not sure our community can compete with the many excellent choices out there.
<newz2000> I don't think we can be everything to everyone
<risbac> yep
<newz2000> so lets focus on our strengths
<newz2000> and that is providing a great ubuntu desktop to all users
<risbac> simple is better, help, community, news, less is better
<newz2000> the start page is available in launchpad. There's a simple (bug ugly) build script that generates the output from the translated text provided by the doc team
<Volans> we can add on the right a vertical box with some useful news
<risbac> but do we REALLY have useful news? and localized?
<risbac> the ubuntu homepage news look like dead
<newz2000> risbac: duly noted
<Volans> I don't know, is why I don't have put it in my proposal
<pep> yes
<risbac> it's more for the press than for users!
<mpt> There are currently 261 words on the start page
<risbac> what I like from the ubuntu planet blog is the useful tips from... I don't remember. This is more or less what I would like to see there, maybe simplified
<mpt> I suggest halving that, at least :-)
<newz2000> risbac: we need to be careful about thinking what we want. We're probably not our target user.
<pep> I think the best is to keep a complete web search solution (so google), as well as search of the documentation in your language...
<risbac> true, that's why i say we need something less tehcnical :)
<pep> and links to the main ubuntu sites
<newz2000> ok, so the driver for this project has to be a very tenacious
<pep> like brainstorm and planet and so on
<yman> Question: do users on the long run use their homepage to learn about their OS?
<risbac> Christer Edwards blog, that's the idea, but NOT for advanced user. It really helps discovering plenty of cool features
<newz2000> We may need to have another meeting just about the start page before we can choose a driver
<newz2000> here are some questions I have..
<ryanakca> risbac: haven't really been paying attention, but something like KDE's tip of the day (window that opens when you open any KDE app) ?
<newz2000> can we publish "work in progress" start pages to 8.10 so we can get preliminary feedback?
<newz2000> (no one here can answer that btw)
<risbac> tip of the day, exactly
<ubris> like tip of the day
<risbac> there are SO MANY features people don't even know about!
<ubris> app of the day?
<risbac> those can make a difference, I really think they can
<risbac> for instance too ubris!
<Volans> newz2000: what do you mean?
<newz2000> good comments
<pep> that's good
<ubris> every day feature a new app
<ryanakca> Is anybody here doing the minutes?
<risbac> new app or new tip
<newz2000> ï»¿Volans: there is an alpha due out Thursday, too soon for an update, but I wonder if for alpha 4 we could have our work in progress page posted
<risbac> but will be hard to localize this... if not impossible
<Volans> sure, but we have do decide before the right way
<Volans> risbac: for the localization there are the doc teams ;)
<yman> App of the day would be a whole article, and really I don't think it will work out all that well. App of the week is more realistic IMO
<newz2000> yman: yes, probably
<risbac> but about tips and applications, who will publish them?
<Volans> and if we use a simpler page then the actual one probably all the terms are already translated
<pep> that's the biggest problem imo risbac
<mpt> iirc Debian has a "package of the day" and frequent problems finding contributors to describe them
<newz2000> risbac: well, uwn is translated weekly
<risbac> maybe it's acceptable to have this part in english?
<ubris> whole article - but can use a teaser thumbnail or text hyperlinking
<mpt> http://debaday.debian.net/
<risbac> ok so maybe we have some content then
<mpt> However, most of those would not make sense to a large chunk of Ubuntu users
<risbac> another meeting is clearly needed to define at least the content :)
<newz2000> yes
<yman> About app of the whatever, it might be worth thinking of integrating it with Add/Remove applications and the feature tour.
<risbac> every single ubuntu user will see this page... so we'd better not fail ;)
<newz2000> risbac: yes
<risbac> Ubuntu has no "one click install" like Opensuse?
<risbac> apturl ?
<vbabiy> yeah the start page I think has the most  value
<risbac> would be neat: you discover the application, you click to install, 10 seconds...
<newz2000> too ambitious for October, but a nice idea
<vbabiy> well you can use a special url and it will install it for you in ubuntu
<risbac> yes, at least we can write it in the list of improvements...
<ubris> enabling app install to be launched from browser must be fraught with issues, right?
<risbac> so it exists Vbabiy?
<vbabiy> risbac: yeah, I have seen people do it
<risbac> Opensuse does it, do they have problems?
<risbac> as long as it does NOT add a repo?
<risbac> we are talking about running apt from the browser, right?
<vbabiy> yeah
<risbac> so it's not less or more secured than apt :)
<yman> not really. it just installs it from the existing repository. security issues are more likely if it could be used with 3rd party repositories. I actually with it did.
<newz2000> ok, lets officially wrap up the meeting, though discussion can continue
<risbac> ok
<newz2000> so in summary, no driver is needed for countdowns
<newz2000> please, everyone interested submit ideas
<risbac> I like this from Opensuse... u read the page, u like what you see, you click, it's here in 10 seconds! that's just taking advantage of the repos, it's a good promotion for the OS
<risbac> oups, sorry
<risbac> too late
<newz2000> for the feature tour, we'll move discussion on to the list and choose a driver by the end of the week
<newz2000> for the start page we need to discuss on the list then have another meeting to decide what features
<newz2000> are included
<vbabiy> risbac: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2008/07/08/improve-application-startup-times-with-preload/
<vbabiy> take a look at the link
<newz2000> let's call it a wrap, but any futher discussions can be included in the minutes as appropriate
<newz2000> thanks for participating.
<newz2000> ----------------------- MEETING END ---------------------
<newz2000> carry on discussion now. :-)
<risbac> Thnks Vbabiy
<vbabiy> That went well
<newz2000> except for the part where I got kicked off. :-)
<newz2000> that will go down in infamy
<Volans> LOL
<risbac> apt and how applications are installed in Ubuntu is a wonderful selling point, and it's not advertised anywhere. i think it's a real pity
<vbabiy> newz2000: how often are we going to have these
<Volans> risbac: for the feature tour?
<newz2000> good question, I guess as needed
<ubris> I think it's a selling point, too - no licensing crud to deal with
<risbac> yes also, but the content is out of our hands, right?
<newz2000> vbabiy: probably want to varry the times a bit to get full participation
<yman> People forget even the most significant events in history. Take heart, for you insignificance is such that non will remember your shame.
<vbabiy> newz2000: yeah thats a good point
<vbabiy> but have them quite often is also good it builds bigger bonds to the group
<newz2000> yman: its good to be reminded of that every so often
<newz2000> vbabiy: good suggestion
<risbac> and it's very different from Windows, people are a bit confused, so we should explain it to make it appear like a BIG strength instead of "it's not working like in windows, I don't understand"
<vbabiy> gets everyone excited about these project all over again
<newz2000> I'll start writing up minutes for the list
<vbabiy> risbac: one place where this could be very useful, is have a little application that runs the first time you log in that ask if you would like to take a tour through Ubuntu
<risbac> yes
<Volans> the fact that you can install quite all the applications trough one package manager and update all of them togheter in a centralized manner is a very big imporvement relative to the windows world and also in part relative to the mac world
<yman> I really think that it should be possible to allow updating only certain very specific packages in the repository. Then it will be possible to install packages from 3rd party repositories without getting updates for stuff that exists in fully-trusted repositories.
<vbabiy> I don't know if this is the correct group for that project but I think it could really help
<risbac> and it should be in the feature tour on the website to me! it's fundamental, that's one of the main difference with windows
<risbac> I agree... you can easily list all the advantages of this installation process.... And they are numerous
<newz2000> food for thought, Novel provides a monthly newsletter that always includes at least one nice tip for improving productivity when using sled
<vbabiy> risbac: yeah that is a key feature for the feature tour
<risbac> I see ubuntu users going online to download sources of softwares and complaining about the difficulty! they don't KNOW about synaptic, it's a shame, really...
<risbac> they try to compile! that's insane!
<vbabiy> yeah, specially if they are new to linux
<risbac> and it makes them have a wrong opinion on the OS... from the beginning! it's really bad
<risbac> it's so normal for us that we don't think about promoting it
<mase_desktop> morn all
<mase_desktop> too late for teh meeting ?
<newz2000> hi mase_desktop
<risbac> ahah just finished!
<newz2000> you're catching the follow up discussion
<mase_desktop> really, damn
<mase_desktop> hmm
<newz2000> mase_desktop: were you hoping to be the driver for one of the projects?
<yman> then if apturl supported installation from 3rd party repositories then something simple like apt://ymans-brain@ymans-body.com could be used to install a single application from a 3rd party repository, that will get updates without having to enable the entire repository.
<mase_desktop> must have calcutated wrong
<risbac> I'm not sure 3d party repos are even needed ! :)
<risbac> but that's a good idea, that could be usefull
<mase_desktop> newz2000: no, not that artistic :) just wanted to actually attend
<risbac> it's not only artistic :)
<risbac> I would not be there otherwise ;)
 * mase_desktop wonders where he went wrong with his time calculations
<newz2000> we should add a new project for coordinating team meetings
<newz2000> with a built in countdown... "meeting in X min..."
<yman> Sometimes they are, like the unofficial getdeb repo, or medibuntu.
<pep> :)
<risbac> true yman...
<pep> +1 newz2000
<newz2000> mase_desktop: you mised it, I got kicked off the channel right at the beginning of the meeting. :-)
<mase_desktop> haha
<risbac> ahah that's all you want him to remember about the meeting?? :)
<mase_desktop> i bet that helps alot
<risbac> he was flooding us!
<risbac> he deserved it! :)
<mase_desktop> so is there a log somewhere ?
<risbac> matt is on it now
<Volans> mase_desktop: use date -u to see the UTC time for you ;)
<risbac> while we keep complaining about the current pages :)
<Volans> /for you//
<newz2000> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/22/%23ubuntu-website.html but not up to dat eyet
<mase_desktop> Volans: nah i had kde display utc for me
<mase_desktop> it was me that messed up
<mase_desktop> not my machine
<Volans> ahahah LOL, I have installed the gnome international clock only for that team :)
<newz2000> I have a google app engine account, maybe this would be a fun experimental project
<Volans> but it don't have all the right places
<risbac> newz2000: you mean for startpage?
<newz2000> no for meeting scheduler
<risbac> oh ok
<risbac> how about a simple ical?
<newz2000> needs to have a countdown
<yman> Question: will each official Ubuntu derivative have it's own start page?
<risbac> you add it to your Evolution/GoogleCal/whatever?
<newz2000> yman: no, probably not
<yman> not even the same one with a unique theme?
<risbac> put them on a google calendar, and people can subscribe to it, with the reminders and all the cool stuffs from their agenda
<newz2000> no variance
<vbabiy> okay guys I got to run, it was nice talk to everyone and hope to talk again soon.
<newz2000> yman: all firefox users
<risbac> bye vbabiy!
<newz2000> bye vbabiy, thanks for coming
<pep> bye
<newz2000> yman: konq and other browsers users don't see it
<yman> Why not?
 * mase_desktop is on konq
<Volans> bye vbabiy
<newz2000> its set by the ubufox extension
<yman> So all the web customization stuff on the client side only expresses itself through the FF extension?
<pep> well we can't alter FF :)
<newz2000> yman: yes, basically (as I understand it)
<pep> as in FF itself :)
<yman> What does Konq display by default, then?
<pep> a KDE home page type thing
<pep> because it is a file browser too
<risbac> Matt, there is no ical calendar published for Ubuntu anywhere?
<yman> Oh. I forgot about that.
<newz2000> risbac: I don't know, maybe evolution
<newz2000> I'll bet there is
<risbac> no no, I mean a calendar everybody can subscribe to?
<yman> But by Intrepid KDE4.1 should be the default, right?
<Volans> newz2000: we can use the meeting as test for the countdown banner ;)
<newz2000> I don't know what tools are available for this, I just know this is a bit of a hassle
<Volans> using the countdown banner as a countdown for the next meeting :)
<yman> And there Konq is, methinks, mainly meant as a browser.
<mase_desktop> Konq will be used as is for kde 4, ie it retains all functionality , but there is dolphin specifically for the filemanager use case
<ryanakca> newz2000: btw, our download page has scrolling if viewed in konqueror
<newz2000> ryanakca: how much?
<jmsearcy> ok guys, I'm out
<ryanakca> newz2000: enough to chop off the alternate download box
<yman> See ya
<risbac> newz2000: you don't have a calendar online with all the ubuntu main events ? (like release dates, UDS, etc...)
<Volans> ryanakca: depends on the screen resolution
<Volans> risbac: the Frisge
<Volans> *Fridge
<stgraber> risbac: we have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule and the fridge
<Volans> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<risbac> I mean a standard format? :) is it Ical on the fridge?
<risbac> something you can have in your agenda
<newz2000> ryanakca: I wonder if it would be better to use a font-based unit of measurement for that height
<Volans> risbac: the fridge is moving to google calendar as I know
<risbac> i see it at the bottom!
<newz2000> 12ems or whatever
<risbac> newz2000: why can't we have a calendar like this? It can manage time differences i think, this way everybody would have the right time in his software
<ryanakca> newz2000: *shrug*, possibly. But then, couldn't it outgrow the box we stick the iframe in?
<newz2000> no, the box will grow
<newz2000> ryanakca: konq 3 or 4?
<ryanakca> newz2000: ok, might work, Konq 4
<mase_desktop> so is there a list of projects from the meetings, who is doing stuff for them etc..
<risbac> the fridge has an ical link at the bottom. it doesn't matter where it's hosted, as long as it's a standard format
<newz2000> mase_desktop: the images anyone can do, the feature tour we'll decide this week, the start page needs another meeting
<newz2000> and largely speaking, a successful driver will be one who can coordinate the efforts of several others, so if you like a project, feel free to volunteer for it
<mase_desktop> newz2000: so nothing really code / system centric ?
<mase_desktop> ical thing works great with korganizer
<risbac> ical things work great with most softwares :)
<newz2000> mase_desktop: I'm not sure I understand the question
<mase_desktop> newz2000: is there likely to be anything that requires programming at this stage or is it maily html / graphics ?
<mase_desktop> mainly*
<newz2000> the feature tour will be ajaxy seems to be the consensus
<newz2000> so I expect a good bit of code to do that
<newz2000> it will also be a technical challenge to make it glitzy for users with js turned on and accessible for users without
<mase_desktop> that will be nice. as i turn javascript off by default myself :)
<ubris> without knowing exact details, some libraries abstract all this away for you pretty well I'm told
<mase_desktop> i like when sites don't 'require' javascript
<ubris> me too
<ubris> or rather I loathe it when they do :~)
<mase_desktop> does anyone know a good library that works when the content type is application/xml+xhtml ?
<mase_desktop> not just tag soup
<newz2000> ryanakca: so is the download page really targetted at users already using konq? :-)
<mase_desktop> newz2000: which page is this ? http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download doesn't scroll for me
<mase_desktop> with kde 3.5.9
<pep> wow
<newz2000> mase_desktop: kubuntu.org
<mase_desktop> ah..
<newz2000> ryanakca: I get a plain white page for http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/download
<newz2000> no content
<ryanakca> newz2000: well, we're Kubuntu, we target ourselves to KDE users :)
<mase_desktop> the download link on the front page doesn't even work for me
<ryanakca> newz2000: strange, just a sec
<mase_desktop> the button anyway
<mase_desktop> the "free download' unless thats not meant as  a link
<Volans> the top banner is too big
<mase_desktop> http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu that doesn't horizontally scroll for me
<ryanakca> newz2000: takes a while to connect to www.ubuntu.com
<mase_desktop> and the window size is less that 800
<ryanakca> Volans: subscribed to kubuntu-devel?
<pep> I might have missed it, but who is driver for the startpage?
<newz2000> pep: we're going to have another meeting to clarify the goals for that one
<pep> ok
<pep> good
<Volans> ryanakca: no
<pep> and the revenue we get from google, is it a lot?
<newz2000> when I view source with konq it opens the page in openoffice
<newz2000> pep: I don't know actually
<pep> to know how much this should weigh in my equation
<pep> we should know
<ryanakca> Volans: If you feel like subscribing, I'll be firing off an email soon, your input would be interesting
<Volans> newz2000: what do you think about custom google search for the start page?
<pep> if we want to keep the user at every price to use its search or if we can derive a bit..
<newz2000> Volans: can you elaborate (it means several things to me)
<pep> yes
<newz2000> pep: not keep the user at every cost
<newz2000> Power users probably already have a favorite
<Volans> newz2000: read the comment on my proposal in the IntrepidStartPage wiki page
<pep> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidStartPage
<Volans> ryanakca: I'm a gnome user, I have only see the http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/download and http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download pages and see the differences, I think that the big top banner is mostly empty and too high
<newz2000> Volans: I'm not sure. I like the idea of customizing it for each locale, but when I talked to Google they said I had to choose US or UK
<Volans> newz2000: I don't mean the google server... I mean a real customized google search
<Volans> let me find the link
<pep> we could simply use the site:http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org in the search (example for french)
<ryanakca> Volans: that top banner is going to go, or at least be changed
<pep> but that's kind of not nice
<pep> (actually forget that :-)
<newz2000> mase_desktop: were you the one who investigated the build script for the start page?
<pep> I think the words "welcome" are good the first time you open it up, but after that they loose their sense...
<pep> but that was already said
<mase_desktop> newz2000: no that wasn't me.
<Volans> newz2000: I have made this one yesterday: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=008949059787096431823:nzsphralfw4 it search in all the resources of the Italian ubuntu community and you can search only in the doc, wiki, forum and website at your choice
<Volans> the search form can be put in every site
<newz2000> ok, cse
<newz2000> the problem with that is it searches a limited subset of content, for example, just ubuntu.com
<newz2000> and that's going to quickly irritate users
<newz2000> we want them to search for everything
<Volans> and for the resuts there are 3 possibilities: a google hosted page, like normal google, a self hosted page with simple output; a fully customizable page with google's API
<mase_desktop> newz2000: i was talking to you about the navigation
<mase_desktop> but i don't think thats what your talking about
<newz2000> ok. Trying to think of coding work available. The build script is a mess. :-/
<Volans> newz2000: I think that with the api we can put behind the radioboxes to esearch in the web, the english ubuntu world and the localized ubuntu world
<pep> A solution would be one search fiel with several buttons "search web" "search ubuntu documentations" "search ubuntu related forums"
<Volans> but I will investigate for that
<mase_desktop> newz2000: i am more than happy to help out if someone hasn't already stepped up
<newz2000> mase_desktop: do you like unicode?
<newz2000> mwa ha ha ha
 * newz2000 tries at an evil laugh
<Volans> pep, newz2000, or simply we can put multiple forms for different search and show one at a time with a sort of tabs at the top or a similar radiobox
<mase_desktop> newz2000: yeh actually just been doing a whole bunch of internationalizations
<mase_desktop> so i don't mind
<newz2000> you should check out the build script for the current start page
<mase_desktop> where is this located, launchpad /
<mase_desktop> ?
<pep> shouldn't get too complicated whatever we do...
<newz2000> mase_desktop: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~newz/ubuntu-website/start-page
<newz2000> mase_desktop: I hope you can see from the code that I attempted to do the right thing and out of frustration and time crunch had to resort to ickyness
<newz2000> I even hounded the developer of BeautifulSoup (who happens to be a canonical employee) without success
<mase_desktop> heh i think everyone has been in that situation before
<newz2000> I think it may be that one of the documents is not unicode and we may need to file a bug against it
<newz2000> but I think you'll be struck by the though, "there must be a better way to do this..."
<mase_desktop> newz2000: so this build script makes the ubuntu homepage in different languages ?
<newz2000> yes, correct
<mase_desktop> ok, no worries
<newz2000> you run it from the project dir as ./locailze.py
<Volans> newz2000: see some example of Google custom search with the API here http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxsearch/samples.html#_the-basics_
<mase_desktop> so your using beautiful soup as the util to convert from one charset to the other ?
<newz2000> Volans: launchpad also uses it for its search
<newz2000> so there's no ads in the cse using the api?
<mase_desktop> newz2000: you mind if i do this in xslt ?
<newz2000> no, I don't mind at all
<Volans> I think with the API in the overlay mode no, with the iframe and google hosted page yes
<Volans> Ubuntu is a no-profit organization?
<newz2000> hmm. Good question.
<Volans> because in this case you can tell google to not show the ads
<pep> ah
<Volans> no money but also no ads for the users
<pep> google can be talked with
<newz2000> we want the ads
<newz2000> :-)
<pep> I mean this is ubuntu :) we can discuss with thel
<pep> them*
<newz2000> yes, I've been on the phone many times with them
<pep> sure
<newz2000> Interestingly enough, when you talk to them about this feature you don't get to mountain view, you get to new york and the caller id says doubleclick
<pep> huh?
<pep> I didn't understand that
<Volans> LOL
<pep> you don't get to mountain view?  the caller id says doubleclick?
<newz2000> if you talk to Google about ads and cse you don't talk to the google guys in Mountain View CA, you instead talk to guys from "doubleclick" in New York.
<pep> Oh right!
<pep> i see
<stgraber> newz2000: Doubleclick is Â© 2008 Google Inc. All Rights Reserved. So that actually makes sense
<pep> :)
<pep> newz2000: I suppose you know this? http://consortiumlibrary.org/staff/gibbs/images/aussie_windaz1.jpg :)
<pep> it matches your nick perfectly, even the right number ;)
<pep> Ok, it's for australia, but still :)
<newz2000> first I've seen it. Nice stuff.
<pep> google has acquired doubleclick
<pep> http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/20080311_doubleclick.html
<twilight> thanks for the good meeting guys, I've to go :) 'night all
<mase_desktop> newz2000: i'll have this build script working for tonight, tomorrow at the latest.
<mase_desktop> newz2000: gotta go to work now
<newz2000> ok, have a nice day mase_desktop
<newz2000> thanks for your help
<mase_desktop> np, glad i can do something
#ubuntu-website 2008-07-23
<Volans> Now I go... great meeting :) see you tomorrow
<mase_desktop> ping newz2000
<newz2000> mase_desktop: hey
<mase_desktop> newz2000:  hey. looked at the build script. i have 1 solution which i like , which is to make all the language files well formed and transform with an xsl stylesheet, however i feel its over engineering the problem.
<mase_desktop> you can also add
<mase_desktop> cmd = "iconv -f iso8859-1 -t utf-8 -o %s %s"
<mase_desktop>    os.system( cmd )
<mase_desktop> to the bottom of your script
<mase_desktop> and that works too :)
<newz2000> oh really? and you ran it and it worked ok?
<mase_desktop> erm.. well..what wasn't working before, just the utf-8 thing
<mase_desktop> or did i miss something ?
<newz2000> I just felt like the solution was very inelegant. For example, it depends on each document being pretty much exactly the same except for translated text
<newz2000> I've never used iconv before
<newz2000> this converts from iso8859-1 to utf-8?
<mase_desktop> yep
<newz2000> aaahhh. Nice. I wonder if it works on cp1252
<mase_desktop> yeh
<mase_desktop> it does
<mase_desktop> :)
<newz2000> oooh, I wish I'd known about this before
<mase_desktop> yeh me too, i only just learned a few weeks back
<mase_desktop> and if you get errors
<mase_desktop> it means the original isn't what you thought it  was
<mase_desktop> not sure that command is correct, the python bit. %s isn't what i thought it was
<newz2000> that's kind of the problem in this instance...
<mase_desktop> but since you program in python i'm sure you worked that out already
<newz2000> we've got at least one file that is in an unknown encoding
<mase_desktop> ahhh
<mase_desktop> that makes it hard
<mase_desktop> b/c afaik you can't tell what encoding it is, you can guess, but aside from working out if it's 8bit or not
<mase_desktop> you don't know without looking at it
<mase_desktop> because when you get byte order marks, they could be actual characters
<mase_desktop> in a different character encoding
<mase_desktop> at least that is how i understand it
<newz2000> sounds like you understand this far more than I do
<mase_desktop> and a decimal number could be valid in more than 1 character set
<mase_desktop> but they might be different characters
<mase_desktop> so you only know if its the right  character
<mase_desktop> if you know your meant to be looking at a grave and you see an inflection
<mase_desktop> but yeh i'm not really an expert
<mase_desktop> at least not atm.
<mase_desktop> so if i make those language files well formed xml, will they stay that way
<mase_desktop> or do normal humans edit these ?
<newz2000> humans edit them unfortunately
<newz2000> what we probably need to do is file bugs against each that is not well formed
<newz2000> and probably against any that aren't utf-8
<newz2000> or are at least a diff charset then they're advertised as
<mase_desktop> do they get edited via teh web ?
<newz2000> I don't think so
<newz2000> check this out: iconv -f iso8859-1 -t utf8  < source/index.html.ka
<newz2000> assuming your in the project folder for the start page
<newz2000> oh
<newz2000> well, that's not actually two interesting because its not 8859-1
<newz2000> ^too interesting
<newz2000> never mind. :-)
<mase_desktop> heh. do these get edited by ubuntu systems ?
<newz2000> well, volunteers create/edit these, presumably using ubuntu but no guarantees
 * pep wonders if you are using rosetta
<mase_desktop> do they get added to vcs ?
<newz2000> the doc team is in charge of these, and presumably they don't
<newz2000> I understand its difficult to edit large text strings in rosetta
<mase_desktop> by the people
<newz2000> mase_desktop: yes, I think so
<mase_desktop> w00t!
<pep> uhu...
<mase_desktop> we have a yes answer
<mase_desktop> ok, does bzr have hooks like svn ?
<newz2000> yes
<newz2000> kind of
<newz2000> (client side)
<newz2000> mase_desktop: this is the one:
<newz2000> iconv -f utf-8 -t utf8  < source/index.html.gl
<mase_desktop> ok. can we add a hook, when they commit, it does iconv -f utf-8 -t utf-8 and if that generates errors then we say , it's prolly not utf-8, look at the system $LANG, does that give any information
<mase_desktop> try and convert
<mase_desktop> otherwise prompt
<mase_desktop> and say, please save this as utf-8 or tell me what charset your using
<newz2000> that may be a challenge, because it would mean distributing a plugin to all users who translate
<mase_desktop> hmm so that doesn't get added to the checkout ?
<newz2000> no, unfortunatley, each user has to install it in their ~/.bzr folder
<mase_desktop> so iconv -f utf-8 -t utf8  < source/index.html.gl was meant to generate an error ?
<mase_desktop> hmm makes this hard..
<mase_desktop> how do we get it to a known state ?
<mase_desktop> and keep it that way
<newz2000> this is the file that we have no clue what encoding it is in
<newz2000> unless we read the source and see it is 8859-1
 * newz2000 smacks head
<mase_desktop> well isn't it utf-8 then ?
<mase_desktop> if it works without errors
<mase_desktop> or at least its likely to be utf-8
<newz2000> mase_desktop: when you tried to validate, did all of them give you errors or just certain ones?
<mase_desktop> newz2000: only tried with 3 so not sure about them all. I'm on a slackware system which doesn't have bzr so i was being slack and only grabbed those
<mase_desktop> but even the template wasn't well formed
<mase_desktop> was missing trailing /> for img elements
<newz2000> ooh, and it's got an xhtml doctype too
<newz2000> shame on me
<newz2000> oh, the images copied from the google gadget (we started out with gadgets then replaced them)
<mase_desktop> meh, this will solve one of the bugs on lp anyway .
<mase_desktop> some dude complaining about validity
<mase_desktop> :)
<newz2000> those guys bug me.
<mase_desktop> i can kind of understand the desire but they could at least submit a patch :0
<newz2000> hah - good point
<mase_desktop> anways i have a well formed template here and also  i am prepared to make the rest well formed etc.. in order to make it more flexible
<newz2000> so your validation errors, are they malformed xml errors or are they invalid chars?
<mase_desktop> erm invalid xml and also because i am trying to read it as xml it complains about the entities. But i can solve that i think
<mase_desktop> by running in validation mode
<mase_desktop> so it uses the dtd
<mase_desktop> yeh i don't know how to go about getting well formed xml if we can't ask them to use say, conglomerate or something like that
<mase_desktop> or even a web based xml editor
<newz2000> mase_desktop: is this something you enjoy doing? What I mean is, would you be willing to work with the docteam to get this updated and corrected in their vcs so that all future versions are valid utf-8 xml?
<mase_desktop> or something like svn hooks
<newz2000> wait
<mase_desktop> newz2000: i don't enjoy doing it, i think its important though and i would be willing to yes
<newz2000> acutally, before we do that we should wait for our next meeting
<newz2000> we may be asking them for far more than this, and it would be a shame to have them change their process for well-formedness and then change it again because we want something diff
<mase_desktop> yeh no worries. I'm happy to help however you see fit.
<newz2000> I agree with some points made that the page has too much text for anyone who's seen the page more than once, so we may be asking them to summarize it into a paragraph.
<newz2000> If we do that, then we should change their process to also ensure their text is well formed
<newz2000> mase_desktop: what xsl tool are you using? xalan?
<mase_desktop> newz2000: libxsl
<mase_desktop> xsltproc
<newz2000> oh, haven't tried it yet
<mase_desktop> comes with almost every distro
<mase_desktop> and has python ,php, perl, ruby bindings
<mase_desktop> and its fast!
<newz2000> oh, then I probably hve used and didn't know it
<mase_desktop> as in i do dynamic xslt on webpages type fast
<newz2000> mase_desktop: ok, thanks for your probing and for the tip with iconv. That will be a huge benefit.
<newz2000> We'll hold on the next step until we have our meeting
<newz2000> I hate making people do any more work the necessary
<mase_desktop> yeh thats understandable, esp when people are volunteering
<newz2000> people like you. :-)
<mase_desktop> yeh but i like pain! =)
<pep> :)
<pep> don't we all ;)
 * newz2000 makes note of that
<mase_desktop> yeh why else would we do it
<vbabiy> Hey how are you guys
<pep> vbabiy: Fine thank you. And you?
<vbabiy> good, just anther day :)
<newz2000> howdy
<pep> I'm being forced to watch a dumb and irrealistic hacker movie by my godson
<pep> but apart from that everything is ok ;)
<mase_slapt> bah which one ?
<mase_slapt>  i love hackers
<mase_slapt> you have the whole virtual world
<mase_slapt> and the dude on a skateboard
<mase_slapt> people wearing leopard print
<mase_slapt> what more could you want
<newz2000> a swimming pool on the roof?
<mase_slapt> haha
<pep> it's wargames 3 I think
<pep> or 2
<mase_slapt> yikes didn't know they made more than one
<newz2000> me either
<pep> neither did I till today
<newz2000> everything is a sequel these days. :-(
<pep> gouvernments always look so ridiculous in these movies :)
<vbabiy> newz2000: do we have screen res we are developing for?
<newz2000> vbabiy: for the start page?
<vbabiy> no feature tour
<newz2000> oh, yes...
<vbabiy> I am sticking with that
<vbabiy> I am trying to look
<vbabiy> and a different design
<newz2000> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ubuntu-layout-guide.png is my guide, but its ok to deviate for this project
<vbabiy> newz2000: thanks
<newz2000> I think it's reasonable to target browser windows between 850 and 950px wide
<vbabiy> yeah, I agree
<pep> phew, I think I'm going to give my godson an introduction to networking and IT security... the dude in the movie is hacking into CIA as if it was a wifi -.-'
<mase_slapt> have you seen NCIS ?
<pep> yes it's a series right?
<mase_slapt> yeh, those machines are awesom
<mase_slapt> +e
<mase_slapt> match dna in like a second
<pep> hehe
<pep> better than boinc ;)
<mase_slapt> night all
<vbabiy> Hey any one around?
<vbabiy> if so what do you guys think of this so far http://www.vitalysblog.com/temp/
<pep> flashy :)
<unaffiliate> well good usage of big fonts
<unaffiliate> :>
<vbabiy> I am not sure what I want do in the center yet
<newz2000> bright and colorful
<unafiliated> vbabiy : you can put some sort of presentation which show the more reliability , flexibility and security feature in new ubuntu 8.10
<unafiliated> :)
<vbabiy> unafiliated: yeah, thats a good Idea I will have to play with it later
<unafiliated> :>
<newz2000> ok, I'll give it a shot too, since so many others are...
<newz2000> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ft810/featuretour.png (change ext to svg for my source)
<vbabiy> newz2000: I like the switch of screen hots
<vbabiy> shots
<newz2000> just a quick sketch... the bottom items are groups of screenshots, so one page is productivity, another page is entertainment, and each page has multiple screenshots (shown as bullet points on the right, though that doesn't scale well)
<vbabiy> newz2000: take a look new changes http://www.vitalysblog.com/temp/
<vbabiy> newz2000: what do you think
<vbabiy> I know the images are not 100%, I just have more time to mess with it
<newz2000> so do the left and right portions signify next/prev images?
<vbabiy> newz2000: do you mean to kinda have the box rotate
<newz2000> what is that thingy called... a carousel?
<vbabiy> I have thought of that but it will be really had to get it right in SJ
<vbabiy> JS
<newz2000> vbabiy: so is this a full-width image showing three screenshots at once?
<vbabiy> newz2000: we could try to get that to work
<vbabiy> it will take a lot of playing to get that to work correct in js
<newz2000> http://www.ubuntustory.com/ has something like that, though it's going quite slow at the moment
<vbabiy> newz2000: wow thats a nice stie
<vbabiy> site
<newz2000> did you see the slider below the carousel? move it left to right
<newz2000> its a little glitchy
<newz2000> and I'm not suggesting we do this
<newz2000> but it is possible
<vbabiy> yeah, that is really nice
<vbabiy> I think we could do this
<newz2000> ï»¿ï»¿regarding your design...
<newz2000> I feel like there's a lot of visual embellishment that draws your eye away from the content - for example, the color and knockout on the logo on the top left, the glass effect on the yellow box and the high brightness color
<newz2000> I would suggest adopting the idea that less is more. Focus on the content.
<newz2000> as a matter of fact, I'm not big on full-desktop screenshots personally. I think it's better to zoom in on the features we're highlighting
<newz2000> though there does need to be some full shots
<vbabiy> yeah, full shot screen shots are not the way to go
<vbabiy> you can't get them big enough to show enough details
<newz2000> yeah
<vbabiy> I really do like the way ubuntu story did the nav
<newz2000> yeah, I'm curious how they did that shine effect with the rays of light coming out of the map
<vbabiy> newz2000: I can do that in Photoshop not the gimp :)
<vbabiy> But for this project I am staying away from photoshop
<vbabiy> man getting a awesome design is hard
#ubuntu-website 2008-07-24
<mase_slapt> lo
<pep> hoi
<newz2000> howdy
<mase_slapt> so was thinking a little bit about the locale stuff. Do you think it would be worth asking the people doing the translations how they would like to do them if they could choose ?
<newz2000> yes, probably
<mase_slapt> so that before the next meeting, we can have some potential ideas
<mase_slapt> for people to consider/ comment on etc..
<newz2000> have you ever used launchpad's translations and do you know if it truly is a bad choice for long strings like paragraphs?
<mase_slapt> no and no
<mase_slapt> i think i have a lp username somewhere
<mase_slapt> will try it out
<newz2000> someone here has for sure
<newz2000> maybe vbabiy since he's on the Italian team
<pep> I have a lp username
<vbabiy> newz2000: Italian team??
<pep> I aready used it for translating
<newz2000> vbabiy: aren't you on the italian team?
<pep> but not sure about the long string problem...
<vbabiy> newz2000: nope
<pep> no that's volans newz2000
<newz2000> oops
<vbabiy> :)
<newz2000> maybe we should set up translations for ubuntu-website and put some strings in their to translate
<newz2000> hmmm
<newz2000> looks like there is a manual approval process for this
<mase_slapt> i'm signing up for lp atm
<mase_slapt> newz2000: ok im registered, even made a branch!
<mase_slapt> don't know what to do now :)
<newz2000> I don't know either
<Volans> Hi guys
<newz2000> Unfortunately I'm in up to my ears on something and can't start anew
<Volans> what happen?
<newz2000> hi Volans!
<newz2000> are you familiar with translations in launchpad
<mase_slapt> hey Volans
<Volans> newz2000: making translations or loading po files?
<newz2000> well, is it true that translating long strings like paragraphs is not ideal using launchpad?
<pep> ask in #launchpad
<Volans> why newz2000?
<newz2000> related to the startpage
<newz2000> good idea pep
<Volans> newz2000: I'm asking a friend of mine that translate in italian ubuntu...
<Volans> and it says that he don't think there are any problem to translate paragraphs
<newz2000> how about full pages?
<newz2000> like 5 paragraphs with two headings
<pep> neither do I.. I've translated already and there shouldn't be a problem... now you should ask in #lp for details...
<pep> #ubuntu-translators
 * pep just had an idea
<mase_slapt> newz2000: if we associate paragraphs with xpath xpressions we can win!
<newz2000> ?
<Volans> newz2000: you can divide the page into single paragraphs
<newz2000> true
<Volans> everithing you can done in a po file can be translated in LP as I know
<newz2000> I wonder where/why I heard that long text was tricky
<mase_slapt> just researching .po files
<newz2000> mase_slapt: I'm not sure what you mean by xpath expressions ftw
<mase_slapt> like an xml doc can be queried using an xpath xpression, its what sql is to databases
<mase_slapt> but xslt is based on xpath matches
<mase_slapt> so as long as we can say this paragraph matches to this xpath xpression.., we can have 1 template
<mase_slapt> and just put the content in.
<Volans> mase_slapt: we are spoken about what page?
<mase_slapt> Volans: homepage afiak
<newz2000> intrepid start page
<Volans> ah, interesting, and there are news after the meeting?
<mase_slapt> like we could have a .po with a "title"   "blah in jrandom language"
<mase_slapt> and have a lookup for title and //head/title
<newz2000> I think that's how .po files work. there's a short string, like PARAGRAPH_ONE that gets substituted for the translated string
<mase_slapt> actually there is heaps of ways to do this with .po files
<mase_slapt> yeh gettext even
<mase_slapt> which is much simpler
<Volans> newz2000: sorry for my unawareness of that, but now how are translated the start pages?
<newz2000> I think that the doc team gives each willing translator a copy of the file and they submit it back into version control
<Volans> the html file?
<newz2000> yes
<Volans> this can be imporved with po files, xml+xslt, or simple script substitution... moreover I think that the start page should have much less text
<pep> yes
<pep> good point
<newz2000> yes, about the text quantity, that's a goal
<newz2000> this is the part where we need to get involved with the doc team. We need to coordinate the next meeting with them.
<newz2000> and we need to do it soon I think
<Volans> sure
<Volans> you prefer a static or dinamic solution?
<Volans> i.e. static = script that create an html file for each locale
<Volans> dinamic = xml+xslt solution or DB solution or Python solution
<newz2000> yes, that server has no dynamic content capability accept mod-rewrite and the ability to serve content based on language
<newz2000> so static
<newz2000> and xml+xslt can be a static solution too
<mase_slapt> yeh build script
<mase_slapt> i think the gettext approach will work though
<mase_slapt> i can extract the existing content
<Volans> yes but if we make a buld script we can also use simple text substitutions, also a bash script can do the work ;)
<mase_slapt> yep
<mase_slapt> i agree
<mase_slapt> LP have a web services api ?
<Volans> bash/python/perl/every language you prefer
<newz2000> the current build script is python based
<newz2000> I don't know mase
<newz2000> yes, it must, because ubuntu has a python module for lp built in
<newz2000> I just don't know if it's targeted at read only access or if it can post too
<mase_slapt> wait , it can import .po files right ?
<newz2000> lp? yes
<mase_slapt> ok, well i can clean up the existing .html files , extract the content , make .po files from them
<mase_slapt> and import them into lp
<Volans> mase_slapt: due that the text will be reviewed and probably rediced
<Volans> *reduced
<newz2000> right
<Volans> starting from the actual version is not the better solution
<Volans> I think
<newz2000> so there's one issue that we're bumping up against...
<newz2000> offline start page
<newz2000> mase_slapt: the files in the source folder are the offline pages and are shown if firefox has no internet connection
<Volans> newz2000: we need to have an offline start page?
<newz2000> yes
<newz2000> our content currently comes from the offline page
<Volans> how I can see the offline version?
<newz2000> if you're in ubuntu... /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/
<newz2000> I guess if we're making a static start page we may want to create an offline version too
<Volans> oh I see now
<Volans> never seen
<newz2000> before hardy it was the default homepage
<Volans> newz2000: we can create the same page and put it on a package and online
<newz2000> ah
<Volans> but the online version can be changed in case of particular problems
<newz2000> you've got it Volans
<newz2000> those files must have   source package somewhere
<newz2000> also having a search box in the middle of the offline page would be pretty devious. :-)
<Volans> searching
<mase_slapt> sorry guys , gotta bail . can someone post an email to the list if there is anything that comes of this discussion / if there are jobs to do
<Volans> seems to be the ubuntu-docs package
<newz2000> mase_slapt: yes, I will
<mase_slapt> thanks
<mase_slapt> night all
<Volans> bye mase_slapt, good night
<newz2000> wow, there's quite a bit in that package
<Volans> yeah
<newz2000> 56.9MB!!!!
<newz2000> oh, probably highly compressed though
<Volans> there are duplicate files... why?
<newz2000> very good question
<Volans> see in file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/ the locales and locales-ubuntu folders seems to have the same files
<newz2000> locales is a link
<Volans> ah sorry, I was looking trough firefox, not shelll
<Volans> mmmh strange file tree
<Volans> locales -> /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage-locales
<Volans> so locales-ubuntu is a copy of /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage-locales ?
<Volans> ah no, firefox-homepage-locales -> /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales-ubuntu
<Volans> very strange linking system for me
<Volans> newz2000: I have just spoken with Milo of the italian translation team and he clarified me some things, so I have a proposal for the whole offline/online start page project
<newz2000> go for it
<Volans> now the tranlations are made manually because LP does not accept html files for tranlation
<Volans> so my proposal is to:
<Volans>  create a project on LP that will have the code of the "master" page (html+css+js+images) + manage the translations through LP with PO files, add to the project files also a python script that will output two folders, one for online and another for offline pages with the required structure in the two different contest. The offline part will be included in the ubuntu-docs package that now doesn't have the code on LP (mdke upload the tar.gz and 
<Volans> obviously we have to coordinate that with mdke and the doc team
<Volans> if they agree
<newz2000> yes
<Volans> what do you think about?
<newz2000> I think it sounds like a good idea. I think we need to:
<newz2000> Appoint a project manager, and see if the doc team thinks it feasible for this release (time wise)
<newz2000> its more work than I can do
<newz2000> w/out sacrificing something else
<Volans> if you want I can ask mdke for his opinion about that idea
<newz2000> Volans: go for it
<newz2000> that's an excellent next step
<Volans> ok, thanks
<Volans> newz2000: just a question... in the offline version the link to the resources can be useless... probably we have to rethink the page for an offline version
<newz2000> true.. I'd say make that part a lower priority
<Volans> ok
<newz2000> oh, right... ie6 has no min-height
 * newz2000 smacks head
<Volans> about what newz2000? :)
<Volans> you can avoid the problem with the trick I have suggested you some days ago ;)
<newz2000> oh, no biggie
<newz2000> everything was perfect except in ie my box was about 10px high
<newz2000> quick and easy fix
<Volans> good
<newz2000> I was just venting a little. :-) ie frustrates me sometimes
<ryanakca> newz2000: looking at the ML, I see you guys/gals are considering making download page using GeoIP/etc... would it be easy enough for you to create a syndicated page for us, or would iframes mess it up on us?
<newz2000> no, if we do that, we'll do it for you too
 * ryanakca nods, thanks :)
<newz2000> btw, about your iframe height, I did confirm it's related to font-size probs. opera, ff and konq4 all use very diff font settings. on opera the box is too big and konq too small.
<ryanakca> I forget, you subscribed to kubuntu-devel?
<newz2000> no, I'm not...
<newz2000> I'm hesitant to subscribe to an active list, I assume its pretty busy isn't it?
<ryanakca> newz2000: not really, might get a thread per week, certainly nothing compared to ubuntu-web
<ryanakca> newz2000: assuming that I get everything sent to it and my spam filter isn't buggy ;)
<newz2000> I'm surprised
 * ryanakca nods
<newz2000> so you should try a height in ems or some other unit that's relative to font size
 * ryanakca nods, I'll test it on my testsite first
<ryanakca> Mind doing a mysql dump for me, and if you can, a backup of our document root?
<newz2000> sure
<ryanakca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2008-July/thread.html
<ryanakca> Thanks :D
<ryanakca> newz2000: Also, would you recommend I add kubuntu-members to the kubuntu-website lp group, since I'm asking the ML to help out with various things, or take it slow and let the ones who really want to help join the team?
<newz2000> well, you're not using launchpad authentication are you?
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> at the moment, it's just the .htaccess and drupal protecting it. I don't know if we will in the future though
<newz2000> so kubuntu-members would only get bug email by doing this?
<ryanakca> they don't get bug email even then, the Ubuntu Website Editors are the bug contacts iirc
 * ryanakca growls at no longer being able to find that information on the project's front page
 * ryanakca nods, all they'd get is commit access to the theme
<newz2000> I'm not really familiar with the benefits of group membership
<newz2000> ryanakca: what do you hope to get by having a copy of the document root?
<newz2000> we use an odd layout, so would be better if you just told me what you wanted
<ryanakca> newz2000: I would be sure that everything mirrors kubuntu.org, and that my testsite isn't different in some odd way that might cause me headaches down the road...
<newz2000> probably not going to happen
<newz2000> here's what you can do...
<ryanakca> Mind you, I guess the drupal is configured to the path and everything on the Canonical servers, so would I even be able to import the database dump?
<newz2000> ensure your kubuntu theme is in [siteroot]/themes/
<newz2000> ryanakca: you can, you just need to visit your settings page and change the paths there
<ryanakca> newz2000: ok, thanks
<ryanakca> newz2000: the start page is written by the Doc team?
<newz2000> the content is, yes
<ryanakca> newz2000: If Kubuntu were to have a start page, would the google revenue go to Ubuntu or Kubuntu? Or would it not really matter?
<newz2000> I don't know how that would work
<newz2000> in case you're getting ideas, it probably shouldn't go to you though
<newz2000> ;-)
<ryanakca> newz2000: duh, just that I find that some people still feel (even though they shouldn't) that Kubuntu is the forgotten child... might be an incentive for them to help out if they think ``Oooh! This work will help fund future Kubuntu development!''
<newz2000> maybe
<newz2000> is it possible to change the start page for konq?
<ryanakca> newz2000: Yes
<ryanakca> newz2000: I think we're aiming for one based on it.
<newz2000> it cannot hurt to investigate. ping riddel and he can get in touch with the Canonical guy...
 * newz2000 looks up the canonical guy's name
<newz2000> Randy Linnel
 * ryanakca nods, thanks
<newz2000> I suspect this will be far easier than with ff because kde and corp aren't as protective of their trademark (and existing revenue stream) as moz
<Volans> newz2000: sent now a mail to mdke, I have put you in CC
<newz2000> Volans: If you don't get a response you may want to do it on the docteam list
<newz2000> I think he's a bit backlogged
<ryanakca> newz2000: what are the specifics of the start page? (size/etc)
<Volans> ok, if he don't reply in a day or so I will send it to the docteam list, I hope that he will reply also because he is the contact of my locoteam ;)
<newz2000> ryanakca: I don't think there are any hard-set rules
<ryanakca> newz2000: no, but what sizes should we keep it around to be good for accessibility/usability/various Kubuntu devices?
<Volans> ryanakca: actually the online start page for ubuntu is 876px wide
<newz2000> I've been targeting about 800px of content area on layouts about 850px wide up about 900px of content for layouts 950px wide
 * ryanakca nods
 * Volans restart
<Volans> newz2000: I think you can remove the meeting alert from the topic of this channe ;)
<Volans> *channel
<Volans> now I have to go, see you, bye bye
* newz2000 changed the topic of #ubuntu-website to: The Ubuntu Web Presence Team | We have an email list | see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website for more info
<jpds> newz2000: You could "/mode -t" the channel so there is no need to op to change the /topic.
<Volans> newz2000: are you there?
#ubuntu-website 2008-07-25
<ryanakca> Volans: At the meeting, it was flash that was ruled out for the feature tour? D'you know where I could find logs of the meeting?
<Volans> ryanakca: Hi, the logs are here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/22/%23ubuntu-website.html search for "-- BEGIN MEETING --"
<Volans> we don't want flash
<Volans> because the standard ubuntu installation have no flash
<Volans> iirc
<ryanakca> Volans: thanks
<mase_slapt> dooby_doo
<Volans> Hi mase_slapt, is your the email on the list with the homepage/buldscript subject?
<mase_slapt>  yar
<mase_slapt> tis
<mase_slapt> i also wanted to bcc you but i couldn't work out who you were
<mase_slapt> cc rather
<Volans> ok, I was not sure... :) for more clarification call it the Start Page because the homepage can be confused with the ubuntu.com homepage
<mase_slapt> k, it originally started as build script
<Volans> I'm on the list and you can find all my contacts in LP ~volans
<mase_slapt> yeh i couldn't remember your nick, i knew it started with V
<Volans> no problem
<mase_slapt> =)
<mase_slapt> anyhoo
<mase_slapt> was there anything that came from it
<mase_slapt> ?
<Volans> I have proposed to matt and after sent that proposal also to mdke of the Doc Team, and now I'm waiting for the reply
<Volans> I don't have already sent it to the list because I want to know if the Doc Team agree...
<mase_slapt> ah k. So what was the proposal in the end ?
<mase_slapt> LP ?
<Volans> LP = launchpad site
<mase_slapt> yeh
<Volans> in two words my proposal is:
<Volans> create a project on LP that will have the code of the "master" start page (html+css+js+images) + manage the translations through LP with PO files, add to the project files also a python script that will output two folders, one for online and another for offline pages with the required structure in the two different contest. The offline part will be included in the ubuntu-docs package that now doesn't have the code on LP (mdke upload the tar.gz
<Volans> mase_slapt: what do you think about?
<mase_slapt> yeh i think thats really good
<Volans> becuse now the translation are made manually because LP doesn't accept HTML files and the translation are made directly in the html files...
<mase_slapt> yeh i know i was working on them
<mase_slapt> was doing it with xslt till i realised that the source files would get trashed for next update
<mase_slapt> hence the converstation with newz2000 the previous night
<mase_slapt> and thats when he talked to you about the LP translation thing
<Volans> now the doc team create the text, that create the offline version of the Start Page, you can found it in /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/
<newz2000> hi
<mase_slapt> evening
<Volans> hi newz2000
<Volans> newz2000: when you have 5 minutes I have a couple of question about the bug 247616 related to the Dell page...
<ubot3> Malone bug 247616 in ubuntu-website "ubuntu.com/dell has broken links" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247616
<newz2000> ah yes, I saw that one come through
<newz2000> give me two min
<newz2000> ok Volans, go for it
<Volans> ok, in particular what is the policy and the agreements with Dell for that page... I don't know if the links have to link the general Dell Ubuntu page or the specific page for the single computer
<newz2000> I don't know either unfortunately.
<newz2000> I might need to assign this one to the guy in charge of Dell
<Volans> ok, probably is the best solution... now the USA section link to the general page for each single product
<newz2000> actually, that bug may be wrong
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> I think that they're meeting with some of the Dell guys during oscon so someone might have fixed this in preparation
<Volans> ok
<mase_slapt> i just want them to release the 12.1" eslim
<newz2000> I haven't seen that one yet
<mase_slapt> was on engadget  a while back
<mase_slapt> i need a new laptop, my ibook diesd
<mase_slapt> died*
<newz2000> but I will say that I like the 13" xps far better than the 12" latitude 630
<mase_slapt> how heavy is the xps
<mase_slapt> ?
<newz2000> just a little over 3lbs iirc
<mase_slapt> yeh i am looking for sub 1.7kg
<newz2000> it would be right in that range
<newz2000> that one by IBM is very cool, but too $$$
<vbabiy> I have the xps m1530 which is bigger but a very nice machine
<mase_slapt> the x200 ?
<mase_slapt> i tried to get it in aus
<mase_slapt> but so far no one will sell it
<mase_slapt> lame..
<newz2000> I was thinking x300
<newz2000> lenovo not ibm. I keep forgetting.
<newz2000> same dimensions as the macbook air but only ships with the SSD making it quite pricey
<Volans> In Italy dell does not sell the ubuntu computers... it's a shame
<pep> belgium neither :(
<pep> but a guy from my loco phoned the UK service and they said they'd deliver to belgium
<pep> so maybe you can give that a try...
<pep> The Dell UK online support told me today that they ship their Ubuntu
<pep> > stuff to Belgium if you order by phone.
<pep> that was it...
<newz2000> :-) Brush up your french Volans
<Volans> LOL, but good workaround
<mase_slapt> they don't sell them in aus either
<mase_slapt> i tried very hard to  get one
<Volans> newz2000: I have no problem with french :)
<mase_slapt> i dont understand why, is my money not as good as an americans ?
<pep> I bought an MSI M670 X without OS, and ubuntu runs fine
<Volans> mase_slapt: perhaps your money is on the contrary for Dell :)
<mase_slapt> yeh
<mase_slapt> its just annoying though
<mase_slapt> the thing is i know like, 8 people who just want to get a Linux laptop
<mase_slapt> it shouldn't be this hard
<Volans> I have an asus laptop and I don't know if I will buy a dell in the future... if I can buy an empty laptop (without preinstalled OS) will be great
<mase_slapt> was contemplating getting an msi wind
<mase_slapt> but not sure if its just a bit too small to program with
<mase_slapt> night all
<Volans> night mase_slapt
<newz2000> Volans: mdke replied
 * Volans looks, I have some problem with gmail today
<newz2000> let me reply first though
<newz2000> I'm going to bring up a point about the text being too long.
<Volans> yes, take also in mind that exist html2po iirc
<Volans> but I never used it
<newz2000> I didn't know about that
<Volans> http://linux.die.net/man/1/html2po
<Volans> and newz2000 if we change text only the english version should be extracted from the html, so also manually is not a long work
<newz2000> maybe, but if we shorten the text we may also have to rewrite it
<Volans> sure, so changing text we don't have anymore the extracting problem
<Volans> newz2000: about the mdke reply, about the point to make a standalone package what do you think?
<newz2000> I think it makes sense
<newz2000> let me ask ubuntu release manager
<Volans> ok
<Volans> in the meanwhile I try with the html2po
<newz2000> ok. steve is processing the request. :-)
<Volans> newz2000: the offline page is very simple and quite all the content is text, the program seems to work fine, I have just opened the po file with poedit
<newz2000> oh, cool
<Volans> there are also the link in the text
<Volans> that need some attention
<newz2000> I'm curious how that will work
<Volans> just an example, in a field of poedit I have:
<Volans> You can also obtain   <a href=\"http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/paidsupport\">commercial support</a>.
<Volans> if you want to try just:
<Volans> sudo apt-get install translate-toolkit poedit
<Volans> then:
<Volans> html2po -i /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html -o /tmp/testindex.po
<Volans> and open it with PoEdit (I have it in the Applications -> Programming menu)
<Volans> I never managed po files, so maybe something is wrong and I can't realize it... but seems to work :)
<newz2000> I've never done it either, I will peek at it momentarily
<Volans> was my friend of the doc team Milo that tell me about html2po, really
<newz2000> Volans: what do we need to do to get this into a more formal testing stage?
<Volans> for the standalone poject or standalone package solution?
<newz2000> well, steve is unfomfortable with creating a new package
<newz2000> so lets start by saying "improving the infrastucture of creating translations of this content for use on the start page and offline start page"
<Volans> so a project from wich mdke can bring the start page and put it into the ubuntu-docs package?
<newz2000> yes, if the distro team feels that's the best way
<Volans> ok, in this case I think just create a new project on Launchpad and add the right people to the code and translation section
<newz2000> that sounds like a good plan
<newz2000> do you want to do it or do you want me to?
<Volans> I can do it if you prefer and after change the driver to you
<newz2000> Volans: should we make the driver be a team?
<newz2000> can we do that?
<Volans> let me check
<newz2000> we may want to make such a team for just the start page
<Volans> sure
<Volans> Project owner, it can either a valid Person or Team             inside Launchpad context.
<Volans> driver: This person or team will be able to set feature goals for and approve bug targeting or backporting for ANY major series in this project. You might want to leave this blank and just appoint a team for each specific series, rather than having one project team that does it all.
<newz2000> would you make a team then?
<Volans> a team can be useful for LP features
<Volans> you want that I create also a team for that?
<newz2000> I'm in new territory here too. :-)
<Volans> LOL, I have some LP-project and LP-team experience
<Volans> go to the needs... what that team should do?
<Volans> because the translations can be assigned to another team, the Doc Team for example
<Volans> and the start page team should have the right to upload branches
<newz2000> lets start with one team for everything at the moemnt
<Volans> ok
<Volans> ubuntu-start-page can be a good short name for both project and team names?
<newz2000> yeah
<Volans> Subscription policy: 'Moderated' means all subscriptions must be approved. 'Open' means any user can join without approval. 'Restricted' means new members can be added only by a team administrator.
<newz2000> if we're going to allow branch upload should we make this subscription based?
<newz2000> I mean approval based
<Volans> ok, so moderated (can always be changed)
<Volans> newz2000: team created I have added you as a moderator, feel free to change the very quick and small description I have made and other settings
<newz2000> thanks Volans
<Volans> newz2000: for the project I have to tell LP what is the license
<Volans>     Select the license(s) under which you release your project.
<newz2000> we can wait on that
<newz2000> I'm not sure what it is
<newz2000> ï»¿lets wait for mdke's response to our email and then if he's approving we'll announce the project to the web presence team and doc team
<newz2000> this project is getting bigger and bigger
<Volans> yeah :) because LP says:      Launchpad.net is free to use for software projects that share     their source code and comply with these            licensing policies.
<Volans>     Contact us     if your project uses a proprietary license.
<Volans> so I can't create the project without a free license... but I can change it after
<newz2000> ok, I keep tryign to go to launchpad and it gives me a pop-up error
<newz2000> so I can't see anything
<Volans> what error?
<newz2000> assertion error about the search?
<Volans> don't really understand... but try to empty cache and LP cookies
<Volans> maybe the recent upgrade have something that conflict with old cookies?
<Volans> newz2000: I can put "Public Domain" license at the moment and after, before we upload any file, we can change it into the definitive one?
<newz2000> no, not public domain
<Volans> but now there aren't files... so public domain applies to nothing ;)
<newz2000> oh, ok
<newz2000> good point
<Volans> and is sure that we can change it to whatever we want, no change license issues
<newz2000> yeah, I'm sure of that
<newz2000> this didn't used to be a required problem
<Volans> ok, so I go for it with public domain at the moment, just remember to change that before upload files
<newz2000> yes
<newz2000> my error was because I installed a ff update and hand't restarted the browser. :-P
<Volans> lol
<Volans> newz2000: I can  Select the translation group that will be responsible for translations in           Ubuntu Start Page,
<Volans> I have a drop down menu
<newz2000> ok, mdke just replied and he's in support but wants us to notify the doc team first
<Volans> I have read just now
<Volans> I think that for the paragraphs the doc team can continue to produce the texts, we can just tell they how the page will look and how many text we need
<Volans> or you prefer to manage the whole page?
<Volans> for the LP selection there are only two items in the menu that make sense: Ubuntu Translators and The Translation Project Group But I leave empty for the moment
<newz2000> I think we should create strings to be translated and ask them to translate them. The start page team will decide the layout and content.
<Volans> ok, so is better to ask the doc team for that as mdke suggest
<Volans> all done, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-start-page
<Volans> and the team is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-start-page
<Volans> for the team I can change the owner to you or any other people or team, just ask me
<newz2000> ok
<vbabiy> Hey guys  this is off topic, do any one know of any good python podcast?
<newz2000> not I
<vbabiy> I really like the django one, but I was hoping for something more generic
<Volans> vbabiy: podcast for a particular python topic or to learn python?
<vbabiy> Volans: anything that has to do with Python, but not the 411 one
<vbabiy> I have tried that one
<Volans> ah sorry... a python-coded podcast software
<Volans> I have misunderstood
<Volans> no, I don't know
<newz2000> :-)
<vbabiy> Any know enough about python to start one :), I can be the first listener :D
<newz2000> creating a podcast is quite easy
<newz2000> Its just an rss feed with a few extra fields
<vbabiy> You forgot a major part the content.
<newz2000> I wrote the software that these guys use: http://www.christchurchofthecarolinas.org/Archived_Audios.Audios_for_Podcasting?rss=1
<newz2000> but its php
<newz2000> you can view source on that page and see how it looks. Its quite easy though.
<vbabiy> newz2000: yeah django, has a not framework for rss
<newz2000> vbabiy: yes it does
<vbabiy> that has been my play ground lately
<newz2000> http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/syndication_feeds/
<newz2000> but even if you don't have a framework doing it for you it's not hard. Just create a template and change the content type in your response object to xml
<newz2000> copy and paste the source of the one I listed above and use it as your template if you like
<Volans> newz2000: perhaps you received my reply to you and mdke? I have some problem with gmail today
<newz2000> yep, it came through
<Volans> ok thanks
<Volans> ryanakca: are you there?
<ryanakca> Volans: for a few minutes, I'm about to go cut the lawn, how can I help you? :)
<Volans> I have a suggestion for the long page bug
 * ryanakca listens carefully
<Volans> try to change height:2048px; to height:100%; in the js file (it appears to time), with firebug on firefox seems to work
<Volans> s/to time/two times/
<Volans> line 155 and 162
<Volans> be careful and try also with old browsers
<Volans> is an hard coded limit
<Volans> I don't know if there is for a particular reason
<ryanakca> Volans: ok, thanks, I'll test on my testsite first :)
<Volans> ok :) let me know
 * ryanakca nods, upstream doesn't seem to respond to emails, so I guess we're on our own...
<Volans> ryanakca: see http://pastebin.com/d4f46629a for a diff :)
<ryanakca> seems to work in Konqueror, mind testing the gnome browsers for me?
<Volans> I can test... have you a public url?
<ryanakca> Bummer that the discussion will most likely be split on ubuntu-website and kubuntu-devel :/
<Volans> if you need I have also a windows VM with all browsers
<ryanakca> oooh, brillian
<ryanakca> s/$/t/g
<Volans> finally seems to work :)
<Volans> Now I have to go... see you later
 * Volans back
<ryanakca> newz2000: can you run bzr up on the server? (theme)
<newz2000> ryanakca: I have read only access
 * ryanakca nods, I guess it'll have to wait 'till Monday morning :)
<Volans> you can try with US based sysadmins like lamont ;)
<newz2000> lamont leaves at 3:00 my time, it's 3:45
<newz2000> but yu can try, there is a tendancy to work late
<Volans> newz2000: so now we have to wait that mdke asks the doc team and to decide the final license?
<newz2000> no, I'll send a message to the docteam about it. Regarding license I need to talk to gerry and canonical folks.
<Volans> ok, so I stay tuned
<newz2000> sorry for delays. :-/ I need to clone myself.
<Volans> no problem, just apt-get install cloner
<Volans> ;)
<ryanakca> or ``dd if=/dev/newz2000 of=/dev/clone1''
<Volans> right!
<newz2000> I think there might be federal regulations about that
<Volans> just do before `mv newz2000 dolly` and go for it
<Volans> newz2000: I'm updating the meetings wiki page, can I put at the bottom the minutes of the past meeting from your email?
<newz2000> yes, sure
<Volans> I can delete the attending section for the past meeting or leave the schema?
<newz2000> you can delete it
<Volans> done
 * Volans away for a while...
#ubuntu-website 2008-07-27
<alefteris> could any of tha people that can edit the http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/webforums page, update it?
<pep> Greetings
<alefteris> there are a couple of launchpad bugs about it for a log time..
<alefteris> long*
<Volans> alefteris can you put here bug numbers?
<alefteris> Volans, sure: #231584, #244616, #237120
<Volans> bug 231584 ;  bug 244616 ; bug 237120
<ubot3> Malone bug 231584 in ubuntu-website "add ubuntu-gr forum" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231584
<ubot3> Malone bug 244616 in ubuntu-website "Invalid Portuguese Ubuntu Forum link" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244616
<ubot3> Malone bug 237120 in ubuntu-website "Update LoCo Team List for Japanese Team" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237120
<Volans> alefteris: as you can see I have replied to all those three bugs and assigned them to newz2000 (Matthew Nuzum)
<Volans> He have the right permissions to do that, so I think he have put them into the todo list and probably will fix them asap
<Volans> you can ask him directly but I don't know he will be here today (sunday), surely you can found him here tomorrow
<alefteris> Volans, ok, its just seems to be busy with a milion other stuff and has got time to do updates on the drupal site. Maybe it would be good another person to be able to do simple edits like those?
<alefteris> hasn't*
<alefteris> newz2000, ping
<Volans> I don't know if the oher people of the Ubuntu Website Editors Team ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-website ) have write access to drupal
<Volans> it seems that they have those rights: "This team contacts people who have editor rights to the website."
<alefteris> Or even better move pages that need frequent updating to the wiki, so that we can edit them our selfs?
<Volans> can be a solution but take consideration that for example the LocoTeam list page on the wiki is not always up to date
<alefteris> Volans, well it more up to date than the drupal page about the forums
<alefteris> melat0nin, do you have edit rights in the drupal site?
<Volans> just for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/244616/comments/2
<ubot3> Malone bug 244616 in ubuntu-website "Invalid Portuguese Ubuntu Forum link" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alefteris> Volans, yeap, but what can you do about it. All team contact should know about the locoteams page and make an efford to keep it up to date.
<Volans> sure! as a suggestion I think is better if you retry here tomorrow because on sunday is more difficult to find people ;)  I think also that Matt will read the backlog of the channel
<alefteris> Volans, ok, I'll ping people and tommorow, thanks
<melat0nin> alefteris: no, i'm afraid not
 * Volans lunch time... see you later
#ubuntu-website 2009-07-20
<knome> rxMokka, "Please contact Frank Lichtenheld if you encounter any problems!"
<knome> rxMokka, with link to frank@lichtenheld.de
<rxMokka> knome: ?? is that from the subdomain that I can not access?
<knome> rxMokka, yes, packages.ubuntu.com
<rxMokka> ah ok, I'll shoot him an email
<rxMokka> you're able to access packages.ubuntu.com just fine though?
<knome> yep.
<rxMokka> ah today I can as well
<rxMokka> nice an snappy
<knome> ;)
<rxMokka> first time in about a week and a half
<knome> okay, good to hear.
<knome> at least you now know the contact email
<rxMokka> yes, I think I'll shoot him an email anyway, to be sure he knows about the prior problem
<knome> yep.
#ubuntu-website 2009-07-21
<SiDi> packages.ubuntu.com is often down..
<rxMokka> I don't suppose there's a static mirror anywhere?
<knome> what's the point of a static packages mirror?
<knome> rxMokka, there are other ways to search packages.
<rxMokka> searching google cache is just a little bit clunky
<knome> what about synaptic or apt-cache search?
<SiDi> you need packages.u.c to compare deps lists of packages for different releases afaik
<rxMokka> yes it makes it much easier to compare and investigate dependencies of a file
<rxMokka> especially with the links to bugtracker, changelog, all conveniently within quick access
<rxMokka> SiDi: any idea why it is that packages.ubuntu is often down?
<SiDi> nope
<knome> http://upstream-berlin.com/
<knome> like that logo
<rxMokka> it used to seem to corelate to times when www.ubuntu was slow, but the past couple days I seem to access www.ubuntu just fine
<MT-> newz2000: you around?
<MT-> I need to look into licensing of the planet module
<MT-> wrong chan*
<MT-> What's the difference between ubuntulog and mootbot?
<MT-> they both put content on !logs, don't they?
<newz2000> I don't know about mootbot, the diff is probably who maintains it
<newz2000> ubuntulog is maintained by the Ubuntu-irc team (I believe)
<SiDi> MT-: afaik mootbot has special commands for meeting logs
<MT-> that's all it offers?
<MT-> I thought I was getting logs along with that :P
<MT-> oh well :)
<MT-> newz2000: did you ever read the email?
<newz2000> I started to earlier today but didn't get through it
<MT-> newz2000: :P
<MT-> newz2000: I thought it was short - sortry
<newz2000> I will try again shortly. I'm getting a lot of miscelanious requests for this and that
<MT-> newz2000: ya, that seems to be your style - lotta little things that need to be done right away
<MT-> about right?
<newz2000> yeah
#ubuntu-website 2009-07-22
 * lajjr rebooting
<ryanakca> Has there been any progress on the feature tour for 9.10 ?
#ubuntu-website 2009-07-23
<ryanakca> What's thet status of the 9.10 feature tour?
#ubuntu-website 2009-07-24
<MT-> newz2000: :)
#ubuntu-website 2010-07-27
<jono> stas_, ping?
<stas_> jono: pong
<stas_> hows going?
<jono> stas_, hey, great! you?
<stas_> me too, passed gsoc midterm last week :)
<jono> stas_, good work!
<jono> stas_, quick q
<stas_> thanks
<jono> here he is :)
<jono> kim0, meet stas_
<jono> stas_, meet kim0
<stas_> hi kim0 :)
<kim0> stas_: Nice to meet you
<jono> stas_, kim0 just joined my team building a cloud community
<kim0> stas_: hey
<stas_> same here :)
<jono> he is building a WP site and needs the theme
<jono> is there a location with the release?
<stas_> great
<jono> and can you help him use it?
<jono> I am sure kim0 will provide some awesome feedback
<stas_> jono: bad news, looks like newz2000 was a bit busy so the release isn't done yet
<stas_> but i will surely help kim0
<jono> stas_, can we release without newz2000 doing it?
<jono> stas_, plonk it in a Launchpad project and boom!
<stas_> its in pending for code review
<stas_> thats all :)
<kim0> I'll just play with it on local machine for now
<stas_> kim0: do you have the tarball?
<kim0> no .. but I'm trying to lure you into emailing it
<stas_> w8 i'll give you the bzr link
<kim0> hurray
<stas_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sushkov/ubuntu-website/light-wordpress-theme
<stas_> bzr branch lp:~sushkov/ubuntu-website/light-wordpress-theme
<kim0> stas_: voila .. Thank you
<stas_> kim0: if you need help with it, just ping me, usually I'm lurking around
<kim0> stas_: that's just great .. thanks .. will definitely bug you :)
<stas_> great, keep in touch :)
#ubuntu-website 2010-07-28
<daker> anyone here ?
<daker> i want to show you what i have done
<daker> http://ubuntuone.com/p/Arn/
<daker> newz2000, http://ubuntuone.com/p/Arn/
 * newz2000 looks
<newz2000> daker: what are you showing me here?
<daker> ubuntu start page
<newz2000> ah, I see the diff now
<newz2000> that's clever, does it work just like you'd expect with a normal button?
<daker> yes
<newz2000> (or is this just a mockup?)
<daker> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-start-page/ubuntu-10.10
<newz2000> daker: do you want me to help you get in touch with the person who maintains that?
<daker> that would be great
<stas_> newz2000: since you're online and I am too :)
<stas_> maybe we should prepare a new countdown for the upcoming release in autumn?
<newz2000> daker: the person you need is beuno, I'll tell him about what you'vve done
<newz2000> stas_: nah, lets just use the old 10.04 one
<daker> newz2000, cool thanks a lot
<newz2000> ;-)
<newz2000> stas_: yeah, I guess that's going to come a bit earlier this year
<stas_> :)
<newz2000> Instead fo using app-engine we should use a technology we can host internally that works the same way, django probably
<stas_> too much headaches with local hosting :)
<newz2000> I hear you, but the sysadmins would like to have control over it
<newz2000> I wonder how hard it would be to prototype w/ app engine but host on one of our platforms
<stas_> bzr push , bzr pull :)
<newz2000> yeah
<stas_> no need for complexity like gapps
<newz2000> Well, I liked our little dynamic redirector we used so that we could have just an <img tag
<newz2000> I think we should switch 100% to that
<newz2000> no more js
<newz2000> thoughts?
<stas_> true
<newz2000> I'll send an email to sysadmins right now to get us set up with something. We'll say it can be either php or python and see what they pick
 * newz2000 knows what they'll pick
<stas_> both are good for facebook, worked with both apis so doesn't really matter
<stas_> except the app will have to be rewritten for php
<newz2000> stas_: do you think the app will continue to work as is or will facebook's changes require a big change?
<stas_> newz2000: so far that feature works, though I can't say how much they will support it
<newz2000> Do you want to keep it as is or do you want to modernize it?
<newz2000> I'm wondering if I should even mention the php option or just say python
<stas_> i would like to make some refactoring in code, but i won't touch api stuff
<newz2000> ok, I'll just say python then
<stas_> ask them what are the benefits of moving from python if they say no
<stas_> if they got good reasons, i'm ok
<newz2000> ok. I'm quite certain they'll prefer python anyway.
<newz2000> stas_: how cachable is this content? Does it need cookies or sessions or stuff like that?
<newz2000> (facebook app that is)
<stas_> nope, though i need some db storage
<stas_> since user prefs needs to be stored
<newz2000> ok, sent the request.
<newz2000> I better get back to themeing wiki.ubuntu.com now
<daker> newz2000, i got a idea
<newz2000> let's hear it
<daker> well , i dont know if we can implement a small news system on ubuntu start
<daker> somewhere on the page
<daker> so it can display a small news around ubuntu
<newz2000> There's been talk about that, and the thought process at the time was this:
<newz2000> this page is translated into many languages
<newz2000> it's used very often by people who may not really know or care about Ubuntu
<newz2000> (think about your browser page in windows talking about cool microsoft news)
<newz2000> (though apple does it :-()
<newz2000> and it needs to be very fast or people will change their default page
<newz2000> (therefore it's 100% static content now, though this is an easy barrier to overcome)
<newz2000> I think some dynamic content (maybe created statically each day) would be awesome
<stas_> i don't use it, and surely ain't gonna use it if there will be news on it
<newz2000> stuff from the shop or maybe links to some of the popular destinations like gmail
<daker> yes
<newz2000> we know fromthe search log that a lot of people go to gmail, hotmail, etc
<newz2000> daker: here's basically how that project works
<newz2000> beuno is in charge and does 50% or more of the work
<newz2000> a couple people from the community help with translation related stuff
<daker> where can i find him ?
<newz2000> he's here on freenode or in launchpad
<daker> in which channel ?
<newz2000> daker type /whois beuno
<newz2000> or send him a /msg
<daker> oki
<newz2000> you can also ask a question on the ubuntu-start-page project
<newz2000> That might be a good place to propose more lengthy ideas
<newz2000> here's a key piece of info...
<daker> oki thanks
<newz2000> start page is not his #1 priority
<daker> newz2000, i know :D
<daker> newz2000, i am waiting for a good theme for the wiki :D
<newz2000> the wait is nearly over. ;-)
#ubuntu-website 2010-07-29
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> was there an outcome from the last meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/NewBrandLaunchMeeting
<lcarlos_c> The page http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#mirrors doesn't list
<lcarlos_c> mirrors in South America. Could you please check?
<stas_> czajkowski: a couple of templates for the most popular web software were done so far, though not all of them are in use yet
<stas_> here's the list https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
<jpds> newz2000: â
<newz2000> hmm... I don't see any code there, I don't think that page is updated from launchpad any more
<newz2000> :-(
<czajkowski> stas_: thanks
<czajkowski> we're updating ours atm
<czajkowski> it'd be nice t have something to go by
<stas_> czajkowski: talk to jono, he's got some projects that use wordpress theme, and loco.ubuntu.com were also rebranded
<czajkowski> *nods*
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> ebel: ^^^^
<ebel> yo!
<ebel> Wha?
<czajkowski> ebel: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
<newz2000> it's dead, www.kubuntu.org
 * newz2000 wanted to see it, too
<newz2000> ooh, i see it!
<newz2000> nice work kubuntu web team!
<newz2000> none of whom appear to be hear at the moment ;-)
<Turl> newz2000: it says 'Offical' on the title :)
<Turl> but apart from that, really nice design :)
<newz2000> I'd file a bug, I know that they get those notifications
<Turl> where should I fill it?
<newz2000> good catch btw, I didn't actually read the words
<newz2000> kubuntu-website
<stas_> guys tomorrow its sysadmin day
<jono> stas_, ping?
<stas_> jono: hey
<jono> stas_, hey, how do I add the slider again?
<jono> sorry I keep forgetting
<stas_> :)
<stas_> class="slider"
<jono> thanks!
<Kangarooo> hello here bugs about frigde?
#ubuntu-website 2010-07-30
<Kangarooo> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2089 s/Ubutnu/Ubuntu
<Ddorda> hey guys, question, why does ubuntu forums still uses the old theme?
<daker> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown doesn't exist ?
<Ddorda> anyone?
<daker> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes
<daker> the [more] links for the 6.10, 6.06, 5.10 are not working
#ubuntu-website 2010-07-31
<Viper550> so, is anyone doing a moinmoin theme?
<Ddorda> why do we still use moinmoin?
<Ddorda> it's slow i'd die someday from waiting it to load
<Viper550> stas, whatever happened to the fluxbb 1.4 upgrade on ubuntu-ro?
<stas> Viper550: nothing yet, we're stalled
<stas> i'm busy right now, and there's only me and another guy who started to work on rebranded port
<stas> as soon as I will get some time I will finish the migration
#ubuntu-website 2010-08-01
<highvoltage> hi! Anyone know where I can get the branch for the Ubuntu Wiki theme?
<highvoltage> heno pointed it out to me a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away but I lost the link and can't find it anymore
<knome> highvoltage, now it's missing infinitely and it's your fault!
<knome> (no, i don't know)
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-25
<mhall119> AlanBell: newz2000
<mhall119> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> hey
<cjohnston> hehe
<cjohnston> /tl?
<mhall119> what?
<cjohnston> trackleads
<mhall119> I've been afk all weekend
<cjohnston> i know
<cjohnston> -1
<cjohnston> i have a bad week too
<cjohnston> mhall119: mini-season is this week.. we are supposed to be busy
<cjohnston> + I get new windows this week!
<cjohnston> maybe i wont sweat in my office all day anymore!
<cjohnston> mhall119: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1084/detail/   look at the first person attending
<mhall119> i love that guy
<mhall119> he's awesome
<mhall119> cjohnston: sorry about not getting anything done for you, but I needed an offline break
<daker> cjohnston, once back pls comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/734520
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 734520 in loco-directory (and 1 other project) "profile images not displaying correctly if no image on LP (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress]
<daker> nigelb, your tarmac bot doesn't work correctly :/
<nigelb> daker: where is it failing?
<daker> look here https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-directory/fix.814840
<nigelb> summit, I forsee problems with the whole new bunch of branches :|
<nigelb> I need to sit with mhall and sort summit
<daker> it's linked with 2 bugs
<daker> and only the first is marked as "Fix committed"
<nigelb> aha, that's a tarmac bug. Let me notify rockstar.
<daker> yep
<nigelb> hmm, maybe I can fix it.
<nigelb> Its probably simply enough.
<nigelb> daker: Interesting. THe code seems to be set to handle multiple bugs.
<nigelb> daker: Could you not change the bug status, at least for now. I'll get rockstar to take a look today evening.
<daker> sure
<daker> nigelb, notify cjohnston & mhall119 too
<nigelb> mhall119 / cjohnston: one of the bugs that were fixed in daker's commit was not closed by tarmac. Would you guys please not change the status of that bug so I can investigate?
<daker> nigelb, do you have a log ?
<nigelb> daker: I looked, didn't give me anything interesting.
<cjohnston> nigelb: is it possible to get tarmac to assign the current milestone?
<nigelb> cjohnston: No.
<nigelb> cjohnston: but you could possible write a python script to do it.
<nigelb> and I can put a hook
<cjohnston> nigelb, mhall119, daker, coalwater, http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/  New db that you all can use that will be updated every ~2ish days so that you dont have to do an import-live-data
<nigelb> Wait, I talk that back.
<nigelb> Yes
<cjohnston> no talking back
<nigelb> We could possibly do it.
<nigelb> Needs some tinkering with launchpadlib.
<nigelb> Probably needs new plugin for tarmac.
<nigelb> I'll talk to dobey or rockstar and figure it out.
<daker> cjohnston, https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/734520
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 734520 in loco-directory (and 1 other project) "profile images not displaying correctly if no image on LP (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress]
<cjohnston> i saw that
<cjohnston> your talking about the incomplete right?
<daker> or we can just put it as dup of bug 713873 ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 713873 in launchpad "(in API) Person.logo_link is hard to use and performs poorly (affects: 1) (heat: 3)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/713873
<cjohnston> thats fine, dup it, mark 713873 as effecting LD, and comment in it as to why its being added to LD (for tracking)
 * cjohnston doesnt want to go to work today :-(
<cjohnston> im getting a ton of errors when updating user-profiles
<daker> that's because of the "openiduser*"
<cjohnston> updating stefaan-walleghem-telenet
<cjohnston> Error updating stefaan-walleghem-telenet
<cjohnston> they arent all openid
<cjohnston> ty daker
<cjohnston> im trying again on your mp
<daker> cjohnston, https://launchpad.net/~stefaan-walleghem-telenet <= 404
<daker> cjohnston, he changed his lp nickname https://launchpad.net/~stefwal
<cjohnston> ya.. so we need to django-openid-auth
<cjohnston> lol
 * cjohnston needs to go get ready for work
<cjohnston> doesnt look like the update-profiles will be done intime, so ill look when ig et home
<daker> ok
<cjohnston> daker: I would like to see other opinions, but I think I would rather not show anything than show the default little person face thingie if they dont have an image
<mhall119> morning
<daker> morning mhall119
<mhall119> cjohnston: you should probably update-openids before you update-profiles
<mhall119> but that won't discover username changes
<nigelb> daker: both those bugs weren't done with commit --fixes, were they?
<daker> nigelb, i think you are right
<nigelb> daker: dobey says that's wwhy it didn't wwork.
<nigelb> The commit formatter plugin, however, queries launchpad.
<newz2000> AlanBell: what's up with marketplace?
<mhall119> IIRC, he wanted to make contributions to it
<newz2000> oh, I see. Hmm, how do we do that?
 * newz2000 remembers
<nigelb> heh
 * nigelb waves to newz2000 
<newz2000> hey nigelb
<newz2000> AlanBell: to add to the marketplace, see the last paragraph at http://webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/
<nigelb> mhall119: any objects to using readthedocs.org for summit docs? It will build sphinx docs nightly.
<nigelb> (from the bzr repo for code)
<mhall119> nigelb: as opposed to a README?
<nigelb> mhall119: yeah.
<nigelb> mhall119: *detailed* and clean instructions
<mhall119> or do you mean more indepth code docs?
<nigelb> we can go as deep as we want
<AlanBell> newz2000: I want a per country page
<nigelb> do you want an example?
<mhall119> nigelb: I'd rather keep setup docs in the codebase
<nigelb> mhall119: it will be in the codebase, but generated as rtfd docs every night.
<nigelb> rtfd pulls from codebase and generates
<newz2000> AlanBell: why?
<mhall119> nigelb: ok, that sounds good then
<nigelb> mhall119: Look at input.rtfd.org, it pulls from https://github.com/mozilla/input.mozilla.org/tree/master/docs
<mhall119> nigelb: hmm, is there any way to pull from the docstrings?
<nigelb> mhall119: Yes :)
<nigelb> its a sphinx option
<nigelb> we can just add it in
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> that would be good then
<AlanBell> newz2000: I am the leader of the UK loco team, I want to do more to promote the UK partners like surfacing the list on http://ubuntu-uk.org for a start
<mhall119> so we don't have to litter the codebase with .rst files
<newz2000> AlanBell: can you e-mail to the mailing list? I think it will need some thought.
<AlanBell> what mailing list?
<AlanBell> it is django right?
<newz2000> ubuntu-website
<newz2000> yes, django
<newz2000> I've recently (last Friday) updated that app to Django 1.3 so it's reasonable that we could open source it and get contributions
<AlanBell> that would be great
<newz2000> But I'd need to decide if there are any bits in there which should not be open sourced
<newz2000> to be honest though, it would be a low priority task
<newz2000> but the e-mail list is a good way to start the discussion
<AlanBell> yeah, low priority for me too, but looks like a very small enhancement
<AlanBell> new clause in urls.py and a new template that does the inner loop that the continent page already does
<daker> nigelb, ok
<daker> http://s.buzzfeed.com//static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2011/7/22/10/the-dark-knight-rises-poster-unicorn-problem-7888-1311345102-2.jpg
<daker> anyone want to do some reviews https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/ubuntu-community-webthemes/fix.789523/+merge/63484 ?
<daker> nigelb, i'll close that bug 815439
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 815439 in loco-directory "The teams listing legend has an incorrect closing tag (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/815439
<nigelb> daker: go ahead :)
<daker> done
<daker> nigelb, so tarmac need --fixes ?
<nigelb> daker: yeah
<daker> how can we do that we multiple bugs ?
<daker> i just know --fixes lp:<bug-num>
<nigelb> daker: I think you can do --fixes lp:123 --fixes lp:345
<daker> ah ok will try that next time
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-26
<daker> morning ã
<mhall119> morning
<cjohnston> mornin
<cjohnston> czajkowski: daker mhall119 nigelb, the issues with cranberry (the server we use) will (hopefully) be resolved when new hardware arrives.
<mhall119> is all of cranberry going to the new server?
<cjohnston> i believe its just beefing up cranberry
<daker> ok
<cjohnston> blah
<daker> blah blah
<daker> the contributor agreement sucks :/
<mhall119> daker: how so?
<daker> each time you write a code for a project owned by canonical, you will be faced to someone saying :"pls sign the contributor agreement"
<daker> How to submit it by email:
<daker> Fill in your name and contact information on the agreement document and sign it.
<daker> Scan the document and send it in an email to contributor-agreement@canonical.com and to the project lead for the project in question (usually, that's the person who asked you to send in the form)
<daker> this is really ridiculous
<daker> mhall119, nigelb cjohnston https://blog.mozilla.com/webdev/2011/07/26/scaling-django-to-a-global-audience-with-playdoh/
<mhall119> daker: not all projects
<daker> what do you mean ?
<mhall119> and that's been around for a while, though they've changed the license recently to not require copyright assignment
<mhall119> daker: not all canonical projects require the CA
<mhall119> there's a list of the ones that do
<mhall119> they're mostly desktop technologies
<daker> the ensemble guys told me that i need to that to get my MP merged
<daker> -to
<daker> this made me very angry Ã¨_Ã©
<cjohnston> LP requires one
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-27
<mhall119> nigelb: ping
<mhall119> daker_: IIRC, the new license is just a BSD-ish license grant to Canonical
<mhall119> it gives them the ability to relicense, but doesn't give them copyright ownership
<mhall119> doctormo had a writeup about it on his blog
<mhall119> nigelb: it's 6am, wake up
<cjohnston> lol
<mhall119> nigelb: I want to write a blog post about summit, but i don't want to step all over your draft
<nigelb> mhall119: argh, right. Lets get together tomorrow in your am and finish it off?
<daker> it seems there are problems on cranberry
<nigelb> yeah, since yesterday
<mhall119> nigelb: morning
<nigelb> mhall119: morning. I'll ping you when I get home and lets do this
 * nigelb is leaving work now-ish
<mhall119> nigelb: sounds good, thanks
<YoBoY> mhall119: what is a "Launchpad language team" ?
<mhall119> YoBoY: a Launchpad team dedicated to a specific language
<mhall119> like ~ubuntu-ftr
<mhall119> fr
<YoBoY> hum... ok, so the bug is to find a way to link each language to one or more team on launchpad providing support or translation in that language ?
<mhall119> the plan is to link to only one launchpad team per language
<mhall119> is there a situation where we would need more than one?
<mhall119> when I say "the plan" I mean "my plan", since there hasn't been any discussion yet on specific implementation
<nigelb> mhall119: 1-to-1 sounds wrong.
<YoBoY> if you plan to link to translation teams, they are all identified with a name like ubuntu-l10n-XX
<nigelb> Its alaways many-to-many
<nigelb> because a lot of countries might use one language
<nigelb> and a lot of languages might be used in country
<mhall119> YoBoY: nigelb we're not linking country
<YoBoY> and for some languages there isn't one central point of support
<mhall119> YoBoY: there isn't?
<mhall119> YoBoY: can you give an example?
<cjohnston> no, because each team provides thier own.. like the spanish conversation on the LEP email
<YoBoY> I think spanish have more than one team providing support (perhaps i'm wrong)
<mhall119> there isn't a spanish language team?
<mhall119> what is ~ubuntu-es?
<cjohnston> mhall119: it seems teams dont want to do like english speaking teams do, where anyone who speaks english helps out
<nigelb> mhall119: YoBoY is right.
<nigelb> So will French
<cjohnston> that is the loco team of spain
<nigelb> Because French is spoken in Quebec as well as France
<nigelb> (and more)
<mhall119> yeah, but ubuntu-fr is the official French Language team, isn't it?
<mhall119> this has nothing to do with country or geographic location
 * nigelb reads again
<mhall119> this is linking the Language model in LD to a team in Launchpad that provides support and/or translations in that language
<nigelb> ah, +1
<mhall119> not a loco-team necessarily
<mhall119> just a launchpad team
<nigelb> Sorry, I misunderstood.
<YoBoY> cjohnston: it's easy to help when everything is already here and there is people to take care of the health of the tools, more difficult when you have to start from scratch.
<cjohnston> you have to start from scratch at some point
<mhall119> YoBoY: I'm going to be sending an email to the mailing list later today or tomorrow outlining LD's plans for supprting language
<YoBoY> mhall119: we are not the "official" we are just providing the best ressources and every other french team is fine with that
<YoBoY> (and help us now)
<mhall119> YoBoY: if every other french team is fine with us linking to your team from the "French" languge record, then that's what we'll do
<YoBoY> yes sure, I think they don't complain for the french team, i was more thinking on other languages with no clear point to find support
<mhall119> if there is no clear point, then we won't link to anything
<mhall119> it'll be an optional field
<YoBoY> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/locallanguage#spanish an example
<mhall119> hmmm, might it be better to just link a Language to a URL, which can then be either an LP team, wiki page, or something else?
<YoBoY> but that's a good new fonctionality to add to the LTP and you have all my support (can give more ^^")
<YoBoY> perhaps an URL or a wiki page...
<mhall119> YoBoY: can you comment on the bug about that?
<mhall119> to make it a URL instead of an LP team
<mhall119> I think that'll make it flexible enough to support more languages
<YoBoY> you know how I don't like launchpad, so having real pages to find the right ressources for me it's really better
<YoBoY> I add it
<mhall119> added what?to https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/817086 ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 817086 in loco-directory "Link languages to a Launchpad language team (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<YoBoY> a comment
<YoBoY> wait, i'm writting it
<YoBoY> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/817086/comments/1
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 817086 in loco-directory "Link languages to a Launchpad language team (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<mhall119> thanks YoBoY
<YoBoY> de rien
<daker> awe i forgot to buy a new mic :/
<daker> mhall119, cjohnston nigelb :  LoCo Strategy Call :/
<mhall119> daker: i don't think jono is available this week
<nigelb> jono's at OSCON
<daker> ok
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-28
<daker> woww i have an ubuntu server from OVH for free (1 year) YoBoY
<YoBoY> cool :)
<daker> :)
<YoBoY> daker: and why they are offering it ? ( a kimsufi ?)
<daker> yep
<daker> Kimsufi 2G
<daker> mhall119, i am setting up a testing version for LTP
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-29
<cjohnston> mornin
<daker> morning ã
<cjohnston> any chance someone can review https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/display_name/+merge/68583 so I can get a release out please?
<cjohnston> Ronnie: ping
<Ronnie> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> Ronnie: what is the "blog entry image"
<cjohnston> is that supposed to be something
<cjohnston> or just the image thats currently displayed
<Ronnie> where did you find it?
<cjohnston> https://code.launchpad.net/~ronnie.vd.c/loco-directory/blog-css/+merge/69858 line 117]
<Ronnie> cjohnston: its the image of the person who posted the blog (currently hardcoded one image as example)
<cjohnston> ok.. so its supposed to be the mugshot from lp?
<Ronnie> i think the feed itself also has an 'owner image'
<Ronnie> at least the posts on planet.ubuntu.com
<cjohnston> right.. thats defined in a file.. so we would have to figure out how we want to do that
<Ronnie> this branch isn't exactly meant for merging to the trunk...
<Ronnie> at least, nog the html part
<cjohnston> I've got it about done I believe
<Ronnie> the css can be merged. the HTML should be cleaned up and tied to the backend code first
<cjohnston> you have a little time to test it if I push it all together?
<Ronnie> cjohnston: little time yes. not very much
<Ronnie> watch out for the merge conflict in the merge rewquest
<cjohnston> already fixed
<cjohnston> Ronnie: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/LTP-Blogroll/+merge/69861
<cjohnston> nigelb: mhall119 daker ^
<cjohnston> if you need help setting it up Ronnie let me know
<Ronnie> cjohnston: anything special compared to normal testing?
<cjohnston> no.. just setting up to get the blogs on the site
<cjohnston> Ronnie: is python-feedparser installed on cranberry?
<cjohnston> Ronnie: you need python-feedparser btw
<Ronnie> cjohnston: from south.v2 import SchemaMigration
<Ronnie> ImportError: No module named v2
<Ronnie> that error i got when trying to migrate
<cjohnston> Ronnie: upgrade your south
<cjohnston> 0.7.3 now Ronnie
<Ronnie> got it
<Ronnie> which version of django are we working now?
<Ronnie> cjohnston: 1.3 already or still 1.1?
<cjohnston> 1.1
<cjohnston> hmm.. i messed something up
<Ronnie> ViewDoesNotExist: Could not import django_openid_auth.views. Error was: No module named csrf
<Ronnie> cjohnston: very usefull sometimes: https://github.com/dcramer/django-debug-toolbar
<cjohnston> hmm.. i think its something css i borked
<cjohnston> maybe youll be able to figure out what i borked
<cjohnston> Ronnie: update the merge.. I just pushed a minor change
<Ronnie> damn, make init take a long time
<cjohnston> lol
<Ronnie> cjohnston: is there still no daily-live data available in sqlite3 format?
<cjohnston> Ronnie: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/
<cjohnston> its 5 days old
<Ronnie> thx
<cjohnston> np
<cjohnston> Ronnie: just fixed the css issue.. update the merge branch and youll be good
<Ronnie> cjohnston: how do i update the feeds?
<cjohnston> ./manage.py refresh
<Ronnie> hmm, command unknown. weird..
<cjohnston> did you migrate
<Ronnie> cjohnston: http://paste.ubuntu.com/654770/
<Ronnie> yes i did migrate
<cjohnston> it worked then
<Ronnie> make run did that for me
<cjohnston> it doesnt provide output
<Ronnie> but why i dont see any feeds on the homepage?
<cjohnston> did you setup feeds in the admin area?
<Ronnie> oh, i need to setup feeds...
<cjohnston> yes
<cjohnston> root/password <-- admin
<cjohnston> dinner time.. bbiaf
<Ronnie> cjohnston: the blog-entry-text is too big (it contains no paragraphs) newstile.css line 653
<Ronnie> cjohnston: it it possible to get an image (upload it manually in django ?)
<Ronnie> im not happy about the <team> | <user> links, but that can be fixed later
<Ronnie> readmore should be an arrow image in my opinion
<Ronnie> 2 lines high, aligned bottom-right. with 4 px margin top+left
<Ronnie> thats all my feedback
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-30
<mhall119> new blog post about Summit development: http://mhall119.com/2011/07/the-new-direction-of-summit-development/
<daker> newz2000, any progress on bug 275971 ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 275971 in ubuntu-website "Ubuntu Local support - Arabic Language (affects: 3) (heat: 3)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275971
<cprofitt> mhall119 or cjohnston - ping
<cprofitt> cd ..
<mhall119> cprofitt: pong
<cprofitt> hey mhall119
<cprofitt> just curious about postgres
<mhall119> it won't last long
<mhall119> curiousity will give was to confusion, then dislike
<cprofitt> if I am running 11.04 server and it has a different more recent version is that an issue?
<mhall119> it shouldn't be
<mhall119> but for development, you really should just use sqlite
<cprofitt> also, I could not find a password in the settings.py file for the database password
<mhall119> you put your own database settings into local_settings.py
<cprofitt> I installed postgres due to what was in the less INSTALL file
<cprofitt> if SQLLite is better I can do that
<mhall119> it's postgres in production, but there's no need for you to set all that up for development
<mhall119> Django abstracts the database, so you can develop on sqlite
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> so I use the local_Settings.py.sample to make my own local_settings.py
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> it's probably already configured to use sqlite too
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> but the change looks simple for postgres
<cprofitt> is sqlite easier to use?
<cprofitt> I appear to already have postgres installed
<cprofitt> does the make install sqlite automatically?
<cprofitt> mhall119: got an error:
<cprofitt> Traceback (most recent call last):
<cprofitt>   File "manage.py", line 2, in <module>
<cprofitt>     from django.core.management import execute_manager
<cprofitt> ImportError: No module named django.core.management
<cprofitt> make: *** [test] Error 1
<nigelb> looks like you don't have django in your path.
<cprofitt> nigelb: how would I correct that?
<nigelb> Had you installed django earlier?
<cprofitt> no, this is a brand new server
<cprofitt> setup just for this
<nigelb> ah
<nigelb> what are you setting up? Loco Directory?
<cprofitt> yes
<nigelb> okay, so you can either install django system wide or use a virtualenv
<nigelb> if you want to install it system-wide "sudo apt-get install python-django"
<cprofitt> I did that, but still get the error...
<cprofitt> I am trying to follow the instructions in the INSTALL file
<nigelb> ah, let me read that
<nigelb> I should set up a readthedocs.org for loco-directory
<cprofitt> I did accidently setup postgres
<cprofitt> if need be I can re-install the server -- it doesn't take that long
<nigelb> hm, I don't remember what docs I used. I didn't go this route
<nigelb> cprofitt: okay, so the instructions already use virtualenv.
<nigelb> So I think you've not loaded your env
<cprofitt> quite potentially...
<cprofitt> do the instructions tell you how to do that?
<nigelb> at what point in the instructions are you getting this error?
<cprofitt> make init
<nigelb> can you do an ls -al and tell me if you see a .env folder?
<cprofitt> I see an env folder, but not .env
<nigelb> ah, right env.
<nigelb> I should read better :)
<nigelb> so, do "source env/bin/activate" and see if your terminal prompt now starts with (env) if it wasn't there
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> make init still gives the same error
<cprofitt> if you have a link to the docs you used -- I could use those
<cprofitt> this is a virtual machine so I don't care if it is in a virtualenv
<nigelb> I already had everything in my system path.
<nigelb> I used the old summit docs
<nigelb> Now I'm confused in the mess of Makefile :/
<cprofitt> lol
<nigelb> ok, lets try this. do make init again
<cprofitt> maybe I should just try learning some basic django first...
<cprofitt> same error nigelb
<nigelb> drat
<daker> cprofitt, run make clean
<daker> make depends
<nigelb> ah, there's a clean
<mhall119> cprofitt: pong
<mhall119> cprofitt: what steps have you dong?
<daker> ah here is mr makefile
<nigelb> hehe
<cprofitt> daker the make clean appears to have moved things forward
<nigelb> I'm tempted to get LTP docs like summit.rtfd.org
<nigelb> daker: if you find some time, pleaes check out the docs and let me know fi there are errors
<daker> sure
<mhall119> cprofitt: did one of the make steps fail?
<nigelb> gah, we should have a Vagrantfile which does all this stuff.
<cprofitt> make init failed
<nigelb> So. Much. Easier.
<mhall119> cprofitt: that's no good, did it give an error?
<cprofitt> but the make clean fixed that up mhall119
<mhall119> also, did you "sudo make depends" first?
<mhall119> cprofitt: oh, ok
<cprofitt> I posted the error at 14:01 mhall119
<cprofitt> mhall119: yes
<cprofitt> I was following the INSTALL file instructions
<daker> nigelb, the bzr parameter is --fixes lp:bug_num, right ?
<nigelb> daker: yeah
<cprofitt> make test resulted in two errors
<cprofitt> and 1 failure
<cprofitt> ERROR: Test if check for a more complicated LoCo Team setup works
<cprofitt> ERROR: test_unicode_agenda_title (meetings.tests.UnicodeTest)
<cprofitt> FAIL: test_anonymous_user (teams.tests.EditTeamTestCase)
<nigelb> ha
<nigelb> mhall119: Your test isnt passing? ^
<cprofitt> do I want to do the make lp, make live, make run still?
<nigelb> yes
<daker> anyone to do some reviews https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-directory/fix.818373 ? :)
<mhall119> cprofitt: either make lp or make live, not both
<cprofitt> too late
<cprofitt> what is the difference?
<mhall119> make live will delete everything make lp did and start over
<mhall119> it won't break, just waste your time and bandwidth
<cprofitt> is there any difference?
<cprofitt> a reason to choose one over the other?
<mhall119> nigelb: file a bug for my test not passing anymore
<mhall119> this is why we have tests, so we know when things are broken before our users do
<daker> mhall119, i am going to write a formula for LTP, but the postgres formula is not yet released
<cprofitt> after make run -- what should be done to test?
<daker> open http://127.0.0.1:8000/ in your browser
<cprofitt> is there a way to make the server run on a different IP address than localhost?
<cprofitt> I am using a virtual server...
<cprofitt> so no browser on the server itself
<daker> yep you can but you need to modify the Makefile
<daker> open it then look at line 35
<daker> it's :
<daker> $(django_manage) runserver
<daker> change to :
<daker> $(django_manage) runserver 0.0.0.0:8000
<mhall119> daker: ensemble?
<daker> mhall119, yep
<daker> they only have a formula for mysql
<mhall119> daker: did you see jcastro's blog post?
<mhall119> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/8237594556/my-first-attempt-at-an-ensemble-formula
<daker> yep i saw it
<mhall119> cool
<cprofitt> daker: then after I change that I need to do what?
<daker> open the browser
<daker> then type http://ip_of_your_server:8000
<cprofitt> no need to restart the server?
<cprofitt> or re-do the make stuff?
<daker> cprofitt, run : make run
<cprofitt> working now
<cprofitt> thanks daker
<daker> wooww
<daker> yw
<cprofitt> so any code changes I make would need to be followed by a make run?
<daker> if there is a change on the python code(forms, views, models) django will restart the server automatically
<cprofitt> k
<daker> if not just stop the server with Ctrl+C then re-run the make run
<cprofitt> awesome
<daker> enjoy
<daker> mhall119, there will a problem if we use mysql instead of postgres ?
<mhall119> no
<daker> ok cool
<cprofitt> mhall119: is there an LP team I should eventually join if I get this stuff under my belt?
<mhall119> there's loco-directory-dev, which you only need once you start approving other people's merge proposals
<mhall119> everything else you can do without being on a team
#ubuntu-website 2011-07-31
<thorwil> hi!
<thorwil> i received a request regarding the code for the countdown banner
<thorwil> is there a public repo from the last iteration?
<thorwil> newz2000: ^ ?
<daker> hello
#ubuntu-website 2012-07-23
<steveedwards> niceguyjames: Hey fella. You good?
#ubuntu-website 2012-07-24
<mehdi2> hey guys, we at Iranian team need some help to upgrade our Moin based wiki
<mehdi2> I wanted to know if:
<mehdi2> 1. We can have a wiki instance in canonical's/ubuntu's Moin wikifarm, since maintaining the wiki is going hard for us
<mehdi2> 2. We can have current wiki.ubuntu.com's theme and use it for our wiki.
<mehdi2> or should I asked questions somewhere else?
#ubuntu-website 2012-07-27
<daker> hey cjohnston what the name of the package you uploaded to debian ?
<cjohnston> daker: django-adminaudit
<daker> thanks
#ubuntu-website 2015-07-20
<jamesc|2> is ldd.tbe.taleo.net maintained by ant one here
