#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-25
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-26
<charlie-tca> natty final fails to install; both alternate images are failing for unmet abiword dependencies
<holstein> charlie-tca: :/
<holstein> we just got new alt images
<holstein> for ubuntustudio
<charlie-tca> Those are the ones that failed for Xubuntu
<holstein> something about the security repo not being enabled
<charlie-tca> Abiword won't install, which is required for Xubuntu
<holstein> i think ^ was for all the alts
<charlie-tca> re-spin seems to have fixed the image
<holstein> charlie-tca: COOL
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-27
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> 1 more day to Xubuntu 11.04
<holstein> w00t
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-28
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 11.04 is officially released! Thanks to everybody for the hard work making this a great release!
<charlie-tca> Well, we didn't get the news release done though. Anyone?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<beardygnome> hi all, anyone successfully upgraded from maverick to natty today?
<beardygnome> i get "can not mark 'xubuntu-desktop' for upgrade" every time i try
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I think vinnl usually handles posting, but if you or someone wants to draft something up I can post it too
<micahg> beardygnome: do you have ubuntu-desktop installed?
<beardygnome> micahg: no, i don't have any other -desktop package installed
<micahg> beardygnome: can you look in /var/log/dist-upgrade to see what's failing?
<beardygnome> charlie thinks that my encrypted home directory might be the issue
<beardygnome> micahg: which file should i look in?
<micahg> apt.log maybe?
<beardygnome> lots of broken packages listed in there
<charlie-tca> What is the first broken package?
<beardygnome> Broken libwebkit-1.0-2:i386 Depends on libwebkit-1.0-common [ i386 ] < 1.2.7-1~mmwkt1 > ( libs ) (>= 1.2.7)
<beardygnome>   Considering libwebkit-1.0-common:i386 1 as a solution to libwebkit-1.0-2:i386 5
<beardygnome>   Added libwebkit-1.0-common:i386 to the remove list
<beardygnome>   Fixing libwebkit-1.0-2:i386 via keep of libwebkit-1.0-common:i386
<micahg> beardygnome: ah, it's one of your PPAs
<beardygnome> i have the chromium-daily ppa enabled, i think that's where libwebkit comes from
<micahg> orly?  that shouldn't be there
<beardygnome> should i remove all ppas and roll back the packages?
<micahg> beardygnome: chromium has its own internal webkit
<beardygnome> i also have the yorba shotwell ppa
<micahg> apt-cache policy libwebkit-1.0-common should tell you which PPA it is
<beardygnome> it's from my MiserWare Granola ppa
<beardygnome> man I have so much stuff installed that i'd forgotten about!
<beardygnome> should i disable the ppa and install the software?
<micahg> beardygnome: you could run ppa-purge on it if you don't care about it
<beardygnome> i do care about keeping it after the upgrade
<micahg> beardygnome: I think it just downgrades the packages from the PPA and comments out the source line
<beardygnome> the package also comes from the webkit-team ppa
<beardygnome> which i thought i needed to install chromium
<beardygnome> i'll try to downgrade it and disable the ppa
<micahg> nope, chromium is self contained
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: Mondays at 19:00 UTC for meetings?
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Hey. Do you need me to help update the Xubuntu website?
<cody-somerville> It doesn't appear to be updated for the release.
<charlie-tca> yes, please
<charlie-tca> it hasn't been updated yet, as far as I know
<cody-somerville> has anyone prepared anything?
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> I got hit hard by an episode, and got behind
<cody-somerville> Okay. Just got a notice from IS. They're setting up caching in front of Xubuntu.org so authenticated pages aren't going to be available until they get an ssl pathway setup.
<cody-somerville> ie. I can't update content until after they're done with that.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, While we're waiting, who can help create the content?
<charlie-tca> Ohj, goody
<charlie-tca> me, I guess
<cody-somerville> Do we have release notes?
<charlie-tca> I used the ubuntu release notes this time, I have two sections for Xubuntu, one general and one for bugs
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNotes
<cody-somerville> So the things we need to update on the website I guess are:
<cody-somerville>  * News entry for release
<cody-somerville>  * Download page
<charlie-tca> We replaced exaile with gmusicbrowser, upgraded Xfce to 4.8
<charlie-tca> yes, please
<cody-somerville>  * Tour page
<cody-somerville> and last but not least,
<charlie-tca> Did a lot of bug fixes with 4.8
<cody-somerville>  * Front page
<pleia2> we have plans to update all the screenshots and things in the coming weeks
<pleia2> (there are also updates elsewhere that need to be done)
 * pleia2 needs to finish thorough review of site for lingering issues
<charlie-tca> Maybe just try to get the news release and download page?
<pleia2> yeah
<cody-somerville> News, Download, and Frontpage are the only mandatory bits  yea
<cody-somerville> (front page because it says 'Xubuntu 10.10 is now available!')
<charlie-tca> Yeah.
<charlie-tca> but we can't do anything yet?
<cody-somerville> Correct. IS tells me it'll be an hour or two
<charlie-tca> Okay, that will have to work then
<charlie-tca> I couldn't believe it when I woke up at 6am and it was already out
<charlie-tca> Thank you for doing that, cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville_> ugh
 * cody-somerville_ is without power and my modem keeps resetting (I assume its going into power saving mode and only keeping the telephony stuff up).
<knome> cody-somerville_, will the IS set up staging.xubuntu.org for us at the same time? their last "we promise" date was 6 days ago
<charlie-tca> going to be a long day again...
<knome> isn't it always?
<cody-somerville_> Do we have an equivalent of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/MaverickMeerkat/Final for the natty release?
<cody-somerville> knome, I have no idea about that. I can look into it sometime for you though.
<knome> cody-somerville, unless you can do it yourself, don't worry. somebody is already on it, i'm just wondering which one of their ETA's will keep
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: no, I did not have time to do it
<charlie-tca> and my brain is about dead after testing images for so manyh d
<charlie-tca> many days this time 
<cody-somerville> Okay, so I've whipped up http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/600393/ for the news article - largely just took the content of Maverick's release announcement and filled in the blanks.
<knome> "Get it while it's hot" is nice, but not one month from now
<knome> maybe we should reconsider the wording
<charlie-tca> Looks wonderful to me
<TheSheep> it's always hot
<charlie-tca> If they haven't gotten it, it is HOT for them to get it
<knome> hah
<knome> then 6.04 is hot as well;)
<TheSheep> it is
<charlie-tca> If you are reading old news announcements, why would you expect them to apply today?
<cody-somerville> news articles are dated
<charlie-tca> The announcement is not meant to cover months/years, but the day it is published
<micahg> knome: you mean 6.06 and that's a different type of hot :)
<charlie-tca> That's so hot it is EOL
<charlie-tca> but if you go back and read the original announcement, ... (:
<micahg> well, 6.06 server has 1 more month
<charlie-tca> That doesn't apply to Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> We are a desktop environment only
<charlie-tca> I would even be willing to bet the links in that announcement are no longer working
<charlie-tca> but that doesn't mean we won't publish links in our announcements in the future
<knome> charlie-tca, maybe better to let go
<charlie-tca> He was very rude in #ubuntu+1, also
<knome> if you think he is violating the CoC, point him to it and give a warning. usually that just leads to more bad behaviour though... he's been okay at #xubuntu so far, tbh
<charlie-tca> knome: thank you. You are right this time. I will not respond to him again
<charlie-tca> I really need to get off line. I can't hardly see for being sick
<knome> okay, try to get better and get a good rest
<knome> we'll keep the channel civil :)
<charlie-tca> Haven't been able to sleep in 48 hours now
<knome> doesn't sound so good
<charlie-tca> doesn't feel so good either. but we do our best anyway 
<knome> exactly
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-29
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville, pleia2 : can someone please update the download page for 11.04?
<cody-somerville> Yup. I can.
<charlie-tca> I can't even get the site to come up half the time
<cody-somerville> https://www-admin.xubuntu.org/ to login now.
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I would be happy to just get https://xubuntu.org/ more than 50% of the time
<cody-somerville> right
<cody-somerville> there appears to be a problem with the cache they setup
<cody-somerville> I'll escalate to IS
<charlie-tca> real bad timing for them to decide to do that today
<cody-somerville> We were probably overloading the server again.
<charlie-tca> hm, I think we are overloading the main now, since the only images available are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/natty/release/
<holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/11.04/release/
<holstein> thats where i was looking ^
<holstein> probably the same target though...
<charlie-tca> it is, it is just a link to each other
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying, cody-somerville 
<charlie-tca> At least I know it wasn't me this time... :-)
<charlie-tca> I am going to bed, maybe I can sleep tonight.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, IS is working on it
<cody-somerville> Anyone have a good 11.04 screenshot I can use for frontpage of xubuntu.org?
<cody-somerville> FYI, Traffic to xubuntu.org today tripled from the daily average
 * cody-somerville also notes that he has updated the website except for new screenshots.
<Unit193> cody-somerville: http://imgur.com/a/ppfTE
<Unit193> Second or third one down
<Unit193> (Not saying they are great)
<cody-somerville> is that running in a vm or something?
<Unit193> Yeah. You want the one I'm using now?
<cody-somerville> No, its okay. I gotta go to bed. Its just that I can see a bit of the window on the bottom of the image (specifically, lower right)
<ochosi> charlie-tca, pleia2: could someone correct the "Natty Meerkat" on the "Get Xubuntu" page?
<ochosi> also: would be great if someone could update the screenshot
<ochosi> sry, g2g now, but probably bbl
<micahg> what a maverick that meerkat was, even became natty :)
<ochosi> btw, in case any of you understand .hu feel free to check whether this review is good or bad: http://mogorvamormota.hu/2011/04/10/xubuntu-11-04-elozetes/
<mr_pouit> google translate seems to think it's not bad
<mr_pouit> especially nice comments about the appearance/theme
<ochosi> oh, why didn't i think of that....
<ochosi> i guess i was distracted by watching the wedding :)
<ochosi> yes, seems fairly positive in general
<TechnoFreak> Is this the right place to point out that it currently says 'Xubuntu Mirrors (11.04 Natty Meerkat):' on http://xubuntu.org/get ?
<charlie-tca> A review of Xubuntu 11.04 - http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/xubuntu-1104-released-with-xfce-48.html
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: thank you for updating the website. 
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 9.10 is EOL today, 2011-04-29
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 8.04 is EOL on 2011-05-12
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Monday meetings, what is the best time for you?
<mr_pouit> yo
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: what are the proposed times for everyone?
<mr_pouit> probably after 6pm utc
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: times jump all over, but if 7pm utc is good, I think we run with it
<charlie-tca> nothing before 16:00 UTC was okay
<pleia2> ochosi: fixed "Natty Meerkat"
<charlie-tca> thank you
<pleia2> I am going to be super busy these next few weeks, but I'll be working on updates when I can, if anyone is going through the site and finds something a quick bug report would help a lot https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<pleia2> then I won't lose track :)
<charlie-tca> new image on the frontpage?
<pleia2> yeah, screenshots are one of the much needed things
<pleia2> I will have time at 00:00 UTC to start updating screenshots (if someone else wants to start before then I can upload them, else I'll just take them all myself in a virtualbox install)
 * pleia2 busy at work until then
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks! (also for the screeners - i might in fact be able to provide them, i'll ping you about it if i can)
<charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - lightdm
<charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - improve on existing theme and artwork
 * charlie-tca finally got a background he can use...
<Unit193> I think it would be nice to have pastebinit preinstalled (for command output)
<charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - midori (bookmarks can be imported now)
<charlie-tca> feel free to add to this list
<Unit193> Ideas for Oneiric - pastebinti
<charlie-tca> Ideas for Oneiric - pavucontrol for pulse audio
<charlie-tca> pastebinit really works? I guess I don't use it
<micahg> pastebinit rocks
<charlie-tca> I guess I should put these on the ML, huh? keeps them from getting lost
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'd support midori at this point :)
<micahg> err, or rather at least by the time we get to release
<charlie-tca> it it is good, why don't we install pastebinit by default?
<micahg> space?
<micahg> also, cli tools aren't jumping to be placed in the default install
<charlie-tca> space shouldn
<charlie-tca> space shouldn't be a problem, can't we pull it in during the downloads?
<charlie-tca> 31.7KB, that should fit
<Unit193> pastebinit = 492 kB installed
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you talking for xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> yeah, but we put the compressed file in
<charlie-tca> yes
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Sorry
<micahg> I don't see why it couldn't go in
<charlie-tca> not if it is that small
<charlie-tca> although sometimes mr_pouit sees reasons I miss
<pleia2> ochosi: oh good re: screenshots, I might update the front page one tonight and then I'll go through the site to find others which are needed and come up with a list
<charlie-tca> Message to ML sent out with ideas
<charlie-tca> that would be great! first impressions count, thus the front page thing... 
<Unit193> I gave a link of the main screen, can I help anymore?
<pleia2> k, front page screenshot updated
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> now I can go to "I don't care so much until we get things changed over"?
<pleia2> hm?
<pleia2> we'll be copying all the pages over to wordpress, so no effort on improving the content and screenshots now is wasted
<charlie-tca> I can wait for almost everything until we get the website changed over to wordpress
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> I don't see any issues with that
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ochosi: if you could get the screenshots with the pretty grey backdrop on http://xubuntu.org/tour that'd be great (I can do straight screenshots, but I am useless with effects)
<ochosi> pleia2: what pretty grey backdrop are you thinking of?
<pleia2> ochosi: on /tour the images have fuzzy grey borders
<pleia2> or shadows
<ochosi> you mean the shadow?
<pleia2> whatever they are called :)
<ochosi> ah :)
<ochosi> anywho, if you can give me clean screener i can always add the shadow
<ochosi> atm i'm busy helping other people around to install xubuntu
<ochosi> (in rl, not on irc ;) )
<pleia2> ok, thanks
<pleia2> ochosi: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/natty/
<pleia2> let me know if you want more :) for /tour
<pleia2> (no rush, I just had some time during lunch so I got these done)
<knome> n-xubuntu-sc.png has crap at the left side?
<knome> as well as -sc2
<pleia2> the "n" ?
<knome> yup
<pleia2> yeah, ochosi will clean these up before we post them on the site
<knome> right, good
<knome> well... the firefox shot isn't perfect either (the shadow seems to be cut, which is harder to fix)
<pleia2> yeah, I may need to redo some to get things perfect
<knome> i have an idea.
<knome> why don't we just drop #xubuntu-offtopic, and try to allow more chatter in #xubuntu while there is no support issues, and we'd get a more active #xubuntu altogether
<pleia2> I don't have a problem with doing a trial of this
<knome> i'm proposing this only because #xubuntu is already quite relaxed, and even if users were pointed to -offtopic, they rarely stay there, which means that channel is not going to be active, ever
<knome> well of course this needs to be discussed broader, but right now it just seems we're hitting our heads against the wall telling people not to say anything in #xubuntu
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> of course, we could try to keep the discussion somewhat related to xubuntu/linux, so we don't go to subjects like politics...
<knome> (though that might relate :P)
<pleia2> even in #ubuntu-offtopic they ask people to avoid religion, politics
<knome> sure
<pleia2> !o4o
<ubottu> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<knome> isn't that in the ubuntu CoC
<knome> ah, it was the freenode policy
<knome> which kind of wasn't so positive regarding pol/rel
<pleia2> wouldn't be a problem if people could act like grown ups :x
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<knome> sent mail to dev ML
<knome> ugh. sent three mails there
<Unit193> knome: I like the idea of putting -offtopic in #xubuntu, but did you see your emlail?
<knome> did i see my email? :)
<knome> or do you mean - did i read the reply from charlie, which i already replied?
 * Unit193 didn't get that yet
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-30
<ochosi> pleia2: you around?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-01
<nekoCAT> Where would be the best place to find a discussion of the feature set for 11.10?
<micahg> nekoCAT: UDS :D
<pleia2> nekoCAT: xubuntu-devel
<pleia2> (a discussion has already started)
<pleia2> mailing list
<nekoCAT> The mailing list?  Okay, I will subscribe there then.
<pleia2> yeah, there are also frequent team meetings which are announced there
<nekoCAT> Midori is being considered for the default browser?  As much as I like Midori it is completely unstable in many instances when I last tried it.
<pleia2> the cycle just started, everything is on the table :)
<pleia2> the default apps are pretty much revisited each cycle to see if we want to make any changes in case something improved
<nekoCAT> Postler sounds like a nice inclusion if Midori makes it in.  I like the idea of switching to lightdm.
<nekoCAT> One question, with pavucontrol installed would I still be able to use the xfce mixer?  If so then having that installed is completely fine by me.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-23
<Guest71509> Hello! Anybody speak Russian?
<xubuntu335> Hello! Anybody speak Russian?
<xubuntu335> I have a problem with Xubuntu 12 - with the panel moowing
<xubuntu335> anybody can help me? may be in Russian
<xubuntu335> ÐµÑÑÑ ÑÑÑ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¸Ðµ?
<micahg> !ru | xubuntu335
<ubottu> xubuntu335: ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<knome> updated http://xubuntu.org/irc/ with a paragraph on languages
<thomas____> Hello everyone, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post suggestions
<thomas____> but here goes, I hope the devs see this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2012-April/003593.html
<thomas____> and also the fact that libreoffice in xubuntu needs to install libreoffice-gtk with it.
<thomas____> thanks for your time and efforts
<ochosi> knome: ping
<ochosi> knome: mkay, anyway, i think i'll go with this look for selected items. i prefer subtle to the single-shadow suggestion of yours: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04232012-013400pm.php
<ochosi> knome: the focus is there because of the label-box anyway and the font is #fff instead of #eee, also: the label isn't ellipsized when selected, so i think enough highlighting for the currently selected item
<ochosi> : knome let me know if you have serious concerns, otherwise i'll push this to git
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ochosi, worksforme
<ochosi> ok, i'll push it then
<knome> quantal quetzal
<knome> if you didn't hear already
<ochosi> ?
<knome> 12.10
<ochosi> what?
<ochosi> seriously?
<knome> yes
<knome> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1121
<ochosi> woah :)
<ochosi> hard to believe
<knome> On the cloud front, the new virtualized network madness called Quantum will make its appearance.
<knome> probably pretty much explains the article
<ochosi> mmh, i guess
<ochosi> whoever manages the g+ group/page seems pretty excited about the desktop tweaks
<knome> heh :)
<knome> see http://open.knome.fi/2012/04/23/call-for-feedback-on-the-wordpress-plugins/, especially the comment :)
<ablomen> knome, are you interested in (javascript) syntax enhancements?
<knome> ablomen, well any feedback is welcome
<knome> for me personally the most important thing is that the plugins work :)
<ochosi> knome: ah, nice comment :)
<ochosi> knome: tell him that if they want to use the plugin, they have to put up weekly interactive images of xubuntu/xfce ;)
<knome> ochosi, hah :P
<ablomen> knome, well just a few optimizations here and there, nothing major
<knome> ablomen, i'd love to hear those suggestions :)
<ablomen> knome, i'v sent you a patch
<knome> i'm off for today
<knome> see you later
<pleia2> knome: after some more careful reading of the trademark policy, I'm convinced we fall under the "Community advocacy" use of the xubuntu trademark
<pleia2> so for -Q I think we move forward with xubuntu merchandise (I'll be sure to include big signs declaring "we don't make money from this and we aren't affiliated with the company making this product " ie non-commercial)
<pleia2> er, -Quantal :)
<pleia2> oh, and I'll work on some new screenshots for -p
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-24
<Unit193> pleia2: I can help, need any now as I'm finishing up one VM.
<knome> pleia2, great, thanks
<knome> pleia2, we still need to check with xfce though, we're still pending, but that should be completely fine as well
<ochosi> there's the xfce foundation now, so just in case we want to forward any merch-money
<ochosi> or we could even try to set up a coop with them
<knome> yeah, i really think i should have just started a PM with JPohlmann anyway
<ochosi> yes
<knome> actually, i should run
<knome> so see you later
<ochosi> seeya
<ochosi> humm, anyone with mpd experience around?
<carnau> ochosi, u still nedd the screenshots?
<ochosi> carnau: sure
<carnau> ochosi, http://wikisend.com/download/267944/Greybird_screens.tar.gz
<ochosi> thanks, those look great!
<ochosi> i'll try to write up a blog-post about that soon
<carnau> great!
<carnau> ah, I've noticed that the background not loads in the login screen.
<carnau> It does in Ambiance.
<ochosi> yes, i haven't added any theming to unity-greeter
<ochosi> if you're willing to test it, i could give it a try
<ochosi> (but i don't think it's essential)
<carnau> quite busy these days, maybe next week?
<ochosi> sure, no rush
<carnau> :D
<ochosi> pleia2: i started working on a blog-post about unity support in greybird, feel free to have a peek (on xubuntu.org)
<carnau> Is there any way to restrict some folders of being scanned by the dash?
<ochosi> carnau: i think you have to use the zeitgeist activity journal (or what it's called)
<carnau> ok, I'll take a look. thanks :D
<carnau> Augh, it's too easy. There is an app for that, Privacy.
<Pjotr> Hello, I wish to congratulate all Xubuntu developers with the fine 12.04 edition! Best Xubuntu yet, and the new artwork is clean and attractive.
<astraljava> Yep, I concur. The whole bunch did a marvellous job.
<Pjotr> Xubuntu is going professional in The Netherlands as well: a mental health centre with 350 employees has switched to Xubuntu. See this news item: http://virtualizationworld365.info/news_full.php?id=21703
<ochosi> wow cool
<ochosi> and thanks for the kudos :)
<Pjotr> key quote: 'They are now able to access an easy-to-use Xubuntu desktop and all their critical business programs, including email and an open-source equivalent to Microsoft Office.'
<Pjotr> With an LTS Xubuntu like 12.04, I expect more businesses to follow suit. Businesses love long term support. :-)
<astraljava> That is too true.
<astraljava> Ooh man, amd64 images could really need some love. Will probably take until tomorrow evening before I have a chance.
<astraljava> Hopefully some activity shows up. No one from the proposed members of the Xubuntu Testers team has come forward by adding info on the page requested, so I didn't add anyone thus far.
<pleia2> astraljava: I'll do what I can tonight
<astraljava> Gotta get some sleep now, catch ya tomor*... later today. :)
<astraljava> pleia2: Oh that'd be wonderful, thank you!
<pleia2> (and tomorrow night!)
<scott-work> astraljava: i can download the 64bit xubuntu iso and test it this evening if this is still required
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes, please. No results have been submitted for amd64 images thus far. :-/
<scott-work> how many tests are there?  i typically haven't done encrypted before
<scott-work> oh, it's alternative as well, and three tests per
<scott-work> i don't know that i'll get all those done
<scott-work> i can commit to getting three of the tests done tonight but that will be probably it though
<astraljava> Anything helps. I will do some about 20-22 hours from now, but I won't have time to do them all in time.
<astraljava> Right, really should sleep now. First customer gig in 8 hours. :)
<Unit193> Well, any 32 at all?
<scott-work> astraljava: good luck!  and defintely get some sleep :)
<scott-work> Unit193: it looks like at the 32bit test are complete
<Unit193> Yep, that's what it was when I finished, all but wubi.
<knome> scott-work, which tests are you going to run?
<knome> scott-work, want to take alternate or desktop?
<knome> scott-work, i have about half of desktop, if you haven't started downloading yet, so i could do those except the wubi one
<knome> i'll be right back
<scott-work> knome: i have not started downloading yet
<scott-work> knome: i'll do the alternative then
<knome> scott-work, ok, thanks a lot
<scott-work> knome: i'm glad to give _something_ back to xubuntu ;)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> knome: heyo
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, you can run a test? :)
<ochosi> just finished my first fitpc3 test (with mpd and beamer attached)
<knome> :)
<knome> willing to do a *xubuntu* test? ;)
<ochosi> next on my agenda is taking a few screenshots for the xfce tour...
<knome> hurrr
<ochosi> i've been postponing that since friday evening...
<knome> heh
<ochosi> also
 * knome 's stomach is not feeling so well after too much naga jolokia, so...
<ochosi> would you mind adding me to the -web team so that i can add the greybird/unity screenshots?
<knome> i can do that
<knome> i imagine we will have to create a team for the web translators too
<ochosi> mhm
<knome> added
<ochosi> i mean for now i can also send you the screenshots carnau made for us, but...
<knome> well done already :P
<ochosi> ah, thanks :)
<ochosi> oh and please give the (short) article a quick read
<ochosi> i don't want it to be too long anyway
<ochosi> but i wrote it in a hurry
<ochosi> (not even sure anymore what i wrote :p)
<knome> err
<knome> well, can it wait until tomorrow?
<knome> it's 1am and i don't think my proof-reading skills are at their best
<ochosi> yeah, no worries
<ochosi> the draft is there
<knome> ok, i'll try to remember that tomorrow
<ochosi> but about the testing
<knome> yeah?
<ochosi> i just made a livestick with today's amd64 desktop image
<knome> ok
<ochosi> wanted to test it on a friend's macbook air
<knome> but?
<ochosi> everything worked ootb btw
<knome> k...
<knome> can you maybe file the results then?
<knome> also, was it entire disk?
<ochosi> i didn't install, i just booted the livestick :)
<knome> awwh
<knome> so live session
<ochosi> she wasn't ready to leave osx just yet
<knome> or...
<knome> bleh, okay, i'll go for the entire disk installation then
<ochosi> theoretically i can do an install on my spare testing-partition
<knome> bug #924909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924909 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Windows have grey traces in Ubiquity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924909
<knome> yes, that
<ochosi> but i can't promise i'll make it tonight
<knome> ok, np
<knome> i can leave you one testcase ;)
<knome> brb
<ochosi> btw, that ubiquity bug is an xfwm-compositing bug
<ochosi> if we can switch off compositing for ubiquity then things would most likely be fine (no artifacts)
<ochosi> i dunno why the window doesn't repaint though
<knome> ochosi, can you add that as comment in the bug?
<ochosi> i can, but it's more my experience that tells me that, no evidence to back it up
<knome> well, just add it anyway
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> we could ask olivier, but it's more likely it could/should be fixed in ubiquity-dm
<knome> yes, i think it's an ubiquity thing too
<ochosi> comment added
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> np
<knome> huh, there's some scrollbars on the slideshow
<ochosi> that can't be good
<knome> no, and it's jsut stupid anyway
<ochosi> what's your res?
<knome> i think 800x600
<ochosi> oh wow
<knome> the default vbox
<ochosi> that's pretty low
<knome> or whatever taht is
<knome> *that
<knome> it seems to be fixed once the slideshow progresses automatically
<knome> don't ask me.
<knome> DAMN.
<ochosi> right, well that sounds minor
<knome> yeah, it is
<knome> you know, that burger was REALLY hot.
<ochosi> heh
 * knome is suffering
<knome> inside out
<ochosi> and you'll be suffering again tomorrow? :)
<knome> i mean literally, urinating hurt
<ochosi> ouch
<ochosi> doesn't sound very healthy to me
<knome> fortunately no more
<knome> well, probably isn't too healthy.
<knome> i wonder what "session" the ubiquity installer is running
<knome> or where does it get it's settings
<knome> it would be too easy to just disable compositing there
<knome> if that was trivial
<ochosi> must be the default settings, otherwise compositing wouldn't be on
<ochosi> yes, that's why i suggested that
<knome> default settings == xubuntu session?
<knome> or something else
<ochosi> yes, i'd assume
<knome> then bleh :)
<ochosi> i dunno whether ubiquity can be told to pass on parameters
<ochosi> or inherit all settings from xubuntu-session but change one
<ochosi> better ask some ubiquity devs :)
<knome> do you know who those are?
<ochosi> nope
<knome> heh, k
<knome> i think stgraber then... ;)
<ochosi> never did anything with ubiquity apart from the slideshows we did
<ochosi> yeah, starting with people you know is always good
<knome> ochosi, the indicator area icons are supposed to resize or not?
<knome> Click on Panel
<knome> Move the slider at Appearance and notice the changes in the panel. The icons should grow and shrink about the same. Text should remain readable. 
<knome> that's one of the most confusing sections of instructions i've ever read.
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> "Move the slider at Appearance and notice the changes in the panel." ?
<ochosi> panel > panel preferences > appearancetab > ?
<ochosi> or just change the size of the panel?
<knome> i don't know.
<knome> maybe.
<knome> i don't know
<knome> that's VERY confusing.
<knome> anyway
<knome> lawl at spellcheck
<ochosi> the size of the indicators and trayicons luckily doesn't change anymore
<ochosi> they stay the same at 22px
<knome> i purposedly misspelled -> "spellchekcing"
<ochosi> therefore sharp
<knome> i'm proposed:
<knome> spellbinding
<knome> sepulchering
<knome> shellackin
<knome> +g
<knome> misspelling
<knome> spelunking
<knome> splashiness
<ochosi> i don't even know what shellacking is
<ochosi> hah
<knome> WHAT?
<ochosi> great :)
<knome> no "spellchecking" ?
<knome> oh right, now that i type "spellchecking" to the "change to" field, it is wise enought to propose me "spell checking"
<knome> :P
<ochosi> heh
<knome> yay, the terminal help actually opens!
<knome> Note login sound, if equipped with appropriate hardware. 
<knome> wait? what login sound...
<ochosi> =)
 * knome thinks somebody should have actually READ the test cases.
<Unit193> Read?
<knome> Unit193, that's the thing bots apparently can't do very well
<Unit193> And knome, I said the same thing about a "Login Sound"
<Unit193> Parser error, try again.
 * ochosi hopes that xubuntu will _never_ have a login sound by default
<knome> yeah, not one of my main goals either...
 * knome puts on some testing music
<knome> hello GridCube 
<GridCube> hello knome 
<GridCube> :)
<knome> you can do an amd64 test? :]
<GridCube> :( i only have i386 capable machines
<knome> oh bleh.
<GridCube> the amd64 one i have has the i386 flavor on it
<GridCube> i could, at the risk of being killed by my brother, do a hardware install of amd64 on hour main machine
<GridCube> but not till tomorrow
<GridCube> :/ so not very helpful
<knome> heh
<knome> don't risk your life
<GridCube> its that thats our main machine that he uses for works and he needs it to be working at any moment
<knome> ochosi, now again, with the same image, with same vbox instance and everything, no scrollbars for slideshow :]
<knome> well, i can assure you amd64 really works well
<knome> but please do upgrade it only when you have some time to fix it too ;)
<ochosi> knome: you're sure you didn't resize the vbox window a teeny-weeny bit?
<knome> ochosi, yeah.
<knome> ochosi, 100% sure.
<ochosi> hmkay
<knome> that wouldn't matter anyway
<ochosi> well, that is strange news then :)
<knome> since i'm on the live session
<knome> i mean, the window fits really fine to the space i have for vbox
<knome> :)
<ochosi> so amd64 doesn't need much more testing?
<knome> ochosi, well, i'm on my test 3/4, but alt is not done at all
<knome> ochosi, if you could do even one alt test, it would help ScottL :)
<ochosi> definitely can't test alt today/tonight...
<knome> awwh
<knome> what about desktop then? ;)
<ochosi> i thought that doesn't help much and is tested well enough?
<ochosi> you know i'm really tired already...
<knome> you know i'm tired too? ;)
<ochosi> no, you're still _on fire_ ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> that
<knome> well, leave it for tomorrow then
<knome> i'll see how far i can go
<knome> it feels stupid, but i'm linking the same bug to all of my reports
<knome> :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i'm off for tonight
<knome> okay, good night and see you later
<ochosi> nighty!
<knome> again, no scrollbars...
<knome> all amd64 desktop tests done except wubi
<GridCube> welp almost no wubi tests are ever done
<knome> downloading the alternate image.
<knome> bleh, problems with the shell.
<knome> GridCube, yeah. we need to think what to do with xubuntu+wubi.
<knome> ScottL, ochosi: looks like there is no more amd64 tests to be done after i finish this and another tester the other not yet tested one.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-25
<ScottL> knome, it looks like there is a single test left:  alternative 64bit full install
<ScottL> knome, are you running that now or is someone else?
<ScottL> oh, nevermind, i understand what you typed now
<ScottL> eh, i'm still going to install because i want to play with xubuntu 12.04 anyways :P
<knome> heh
<knome> feel free to
<pleia2> ScottL: you doing the 64-alt?
<pleia2> I'm burning now
<knome> pleia2, err, they are DONE
<pleia2> ah!
 * knome did 6 tests today
<pleia2> they weren't done when I started downloading :)
<knome> heh
<pleia2> one wubi desktop still need to be done?
<ScottL> pleia2, not yet, still downloading (after i got my daughter to stop watching netflix)
<knome> two wubi's
<pleia2> an, 386 too
<pleia2> ah
<ScottL> knome, i'm very curious to see how the clock plugin behaves and see if ubuntu studio should do the same
<knome> ScottL, :)
<pleia2> alright, I think I'll do iso testing tomorrow instead
<pleia2> because I have 100 million things to do otherwise
<knome> yup, sounds sensible
<knome> awwh
<knome> the one time i download something like i shouldn't, somebody has *completely* messed the thing up
<knome> wrong accent on band name, all songs misnamed, and the vinyl rip pops more than my say what.
<knome> ok, i'm off to sleep
<knome> see you tomorrow
<Unit193> 'Night.
<malaverdiere> Hello *
<malaverdiere> I have experienced two total freezes on my xubuntu system
<malaverdiere> I'm on 12.04
<malaverdiere> I am not sure how to identify the source of the bug
<malaverdiere> but I would like to contribute the data for bugfix
<malaverdiere> BTW, I am getting a 500 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin
<astraljava> Aww... you guys! :)
 * astraljava can feel the love
<astraljava> Oh, oops!
<Unit193> You joined a channel.
<astraljava> Yeah, somehow I thought I had already.
<astraljava> Oh well, at least it happened still during the p cycle. :D
<knome> pleia2, in addition to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu, the article in xubuntu.org should receive the *same* love, or at least before we publish we want it to be in line with the page on wiki
<knome> pleia2, at least the shortcuts are shown in a different way yeah, but we should see if the texts match
<knome> + how has the mailing list gone so unpleasant?
<knome> i mean, people all telling "YOU BROKE IT IDIOT" if they say they are using compiz/insert-pkg-name-here
<skaet> knome,   your image testing is looking pretty much done, and in reasonable shape for Xubuntu,   can you sign off on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest that they've been tested now.  :)
<skaet> we'll then copy them to final as prep for tomorrow.
<skaet> (unless there's something that's not on the tester..... )
 * skaet crosses fingers 
<knome> skaet, done, thanks for the heads up :)
<skaet> thanks knome.  :)
 * knome did only 6 tests yesterday O:)
<knome> skaet, btw, what is there we can do with the status of xubuntu wubi?
<knome> skaet, i don't think that's been tested too much lately
<skaet> knome,  best talk to ev in release channel on what's possible.   
<knome> okay, thanks, i will get to that in the Q cycle
 * knome thinks that even the alternate images are a bit too much while there *are* reasons to keep them too
<skaet> knome,  I think a session to review the manditory test cases for Xubuntu at UDS is probably appropriate as well in general.
<knome> skaet, i'm not attending UDS in person, but i agree
<knome> skaet, we definitely need to go through the testcases too
<knome> skaet, they are referring to login sounds, but we *never* had a login sound...
 * skaet nods
<skaet> knome,  able to attend some of the sessions remotely if we schedule them in US morning?
<knome> skaet, probably
<knome> but then again, most probably not video/phoneconf
<knome> skaet, we could just sit down with astraljava IRL someday and think what to do. :)
<knome> bbl
<skaet> knome,  yup.   we can do that.   Be good to have some of the other QA folks in the discussion though too.  :) 
<Schrodinger`Cat> i just upgrade my 11.10 Xubuntun
<Schrodinger`Cat> tu 
<Schrodinger`Cat> to 12.04
<Schrodinger`Cat> try to get xfce 4.10 with the ppa
<Schrodinger`Cat> after i disable the ppa for to go to 12.04 normal Xubuntu
<Schrodinger`Cat> but my keyboard shortcut dont works :/
<Schrodinger`Cat> what can i do ?
<ochosi> Schrodinger`Cat: have you tried to re-set any of your shortcuts by hand?
<Schrodinger`Cat> yes
<Schrodinger`Cat> its not like before
<ochosi> have you downgraded all xfce packages?
<ochosi> (and rebooted)
<Schrodinger`Cat> i do sudo ppa-purge ppa:mrpouit/ppa
<Schrodinger`Cat> and sudo apt-get update
<Schrodinger`Cat> and sudo apt-get upgrade
<Schrodinger`Cat> and sudo apt-get upgrade --fi-missing --> (nothing to do)
<Schrodinger`Cat> fix-missing
<Schrodinger`Cat> and i have reboot
<ochosi> haven't used ppa-purge before tbh
<ochosi> but i'd manually check the packages via synaptic
<mr_pouit> (downgrading between xfce releases is really never a good idea...)
<astraljava> skaet: I _am_ the QA contact person, so that'd be awesome.
<skaet> astraljava,  will you be at UDS?
<skaet> or should we set something up at another time?
<astraljava> skaet: No I won't, I just started at a new job so knew in advance that I wouldn't have spare time for that.
<astraljava> But my working hours are so that most often I will get out of work when your morning is just starting.
<astraljava> skaet: Don't recall the UDS schedule, when were you planning to have that session?
<skaet> astraljava,  hasn't been scheduled yet,  so some flexibility still.  ;)   will coord with you on it next week.
<astraljava> skaet: Sounds good. Next week I'll be really busy, so probably best to use email for that.
<skaet> astraljava, coolio.  can do.
 * skaet hopes to be less busy next week.   ;)
<astraljava> Don't we all... :)
<astraljava> Release week is the worst. :D
<astraljava> But this is the first time when I've had a tough schedule outside of Ubuntu work, so it's been extra tough for me.
<astraljava> Why do I see #xubuntu-unregged in the channel information on #xubuntu?
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: please review the unity-article on xubuntu.org, it would be nice if you could approve/publish it today, so that it doesn't go out on the same day as the release post
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: feel free to alter whatever is not understandable/clear or add stuff if you think something is missing
<malaverdiere> Good morning *
<malaverdiere> I showed up yesterday about a total freeze, but I think everyone was away
<malaverdiere> I wanted to know how I can get data to help with a bug report
<astraljava> malaverdiere: I'm not sure exactly, but I'd say you should attach the main logs into the bug report; Xorg.0.log, syslog and kern.log from /var/log
<malaverdiere> I'll get those. Any other? I remember looking at dmesg and finding nothing special in there
<astraljava> It's hard to pin-point without knowing any details, but then someone else might have a known suspect or something.
<astraljava> I'm not on a linux-machine, so can't take a look at the directory for any additional log file. But it's alright to file the bug first, the person who triages the bug will know what to ask for.
<skaet> knome, astraljava - will your announce for 12.04 be placed at http://xubuntu.org/news/12.04-release tomorrow?  (same pattern as yesterday)
<skaet> lol
<skaet> s/yesterday/last release/
<Schrodinger`Cat> hey
<Schrodinger`Cat> now its better to download Xubuntu 12.04 beta2 or the daily build ?
<holstein> Schrodinger`Cat: you can assume the beta will "work".. assuming hte daily is working, you can argue which is "best"
<holstein> i would personally get the daily
<pleia2> ochosi: s/derivatives/flavors
<pleia2> ochosi: I think you want to mention somewhere that Greybird is a shimmer project
<Schrodinger`Cat> holstein: thanks
<pleia2> ochosi: other than that, looks good, I was worried it would feel off-topic but I really like how you tied it into the flavors not competing, well done :)
<GridCube> Schrodinger`Cat, daily
<holstein> unless the daily is not working for some reason
<holstein> i would get the daily with the expectation of getting one of the others if theres a problem
<Schrodinger`Cat> ok
<Schrodinger`Cat> if i see problems i will try to give to you for help another users :)
<Schrodinger`Cat> i love this linux distribution :)
<GridCube> daily works here purrfectly
<holstein> yeah, its one of those things thats hardly ever a problem.. until it is... if you've got bandwidth restrictions or time contraints
<pleia2> we'll be in trouble if it's a problem today :)
<pleia2> they're actually still doing some rebuilds of the 25 images
<holstein> hehe... theres still time for problems :)
<pleia2> s/25 images/April 25th images
<holstein> better today than tomorrow
<pleia2> indeed!
<pleia2> skaet: sorry, didn't see your note, yes
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release
<skaet> Thanks pleia2!  :)  
<pleia2> knome: I can review release notes and the post, but I don't know enough to help write anything else
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks! and thanks for reading
<ochosi> pleia2: well i dunno, it's not that important to me to stress the shimmer part, after all i'm part of the xubuntu team now, which i wasn't "back then"
<pleia2> ochosi: ok
<pleia2> skaet: oops, just realized your link has a . and mine has a - (we can't have . in wordpress, so it converts to -)
<pleia2> ochosi: also some linebreak issues between a couple of the paragraphs (they get squished together)
<pleia2> looks like just betwen the first and second paragraphs under "Try for yourself!"
<pleia2> ochosi: any way you can put a space between each of the screenshots so it's easier to tell there are 4 of them? (no big deal if not)
 * pleia2 done for real now
<astraljava> Oh gosh, new amd64 images again. Yay.
<skaet> astraljava,   they're needed to fix a multiarch issue,  when a 32 bit lib is being loaded when it shouldn't
<skaet> this showed up in music player,  which could be embarrassing.
<astraljava> skaet: Thanks. :) Of course it's better to be caught now before the release. :)
<skaet> For testing,  all that's going to be needed is check that the scenarios from the bug work now,  and then spot test a few of the other tests for sanity.
<skaet> The existing images, and results are our backup if anything is wrong.
<skaet> we're just trying to get it a little bit better, and the bug might show up more than we'd like.
 * skaet plans on turning on her music player.... ;) 
<astraljava> skaet: A-ha, ok so what would you suggest we should test now? Or should we wait a little until we hear more info?
<skaet> astraljava,  do some basic testing now.
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, added some spaces
<skaet> (if the images have landed)
<ochosi> pleia2: with respect to the paragraphs, feel free to add linebreaks
<pleia2> k, I'll do that now
<ochosi> pleia2: g2g now, you can also publish it if you think it's done :)
<pleia2> if you're out of it
<pleia2> yes yes, I shall publish now
<ochosi> ok, thanks a lot!
<pleia2> thanks!
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> skaet: Yeah it started downloading.
<skaet> astraljava,  The bugs that triggered this respin are:  bug 987383,  bug 899001
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-artwork-update-unity-support/ \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 899001 in sessioninstaller (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #987383 gst-install wants to install i386-version of codec packages on amd64" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 899001 in sessioninstaller (Ubuntu) "gst-install wants to install i386-version of codec packages on amd64" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899001
 * pleia2 shares on the twitter
<skaet> That's the scenario to check is working now.
<astraljava> skaet: Ok thanks, I'll get on it.
<skaet> great!  Thanks.
<skaet> shout out in #ubuntu-release channel if surprises show up.
<knome> skaet, yeah, will release on that url if needed :)
<astraljava> I will.
<skaet> thanks knome
<knome> actually
<knome> it seems wordpress doesn't want us to use a dot
<knome> so 12-04-release
<knome> skaet, ^
<pleia2> knome: my plan is to make some screenshots that are pretty much identical to ones we have now and upload them tonight
<knome> pleia2, can you upload them to somewhere else or send me via email, i need to check if the plugin works now as expected
<pleia2> knome: ok, will do
<knome> (should, after update, but i don't want you to have to go through it)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> np
<knome> skaet, can you confirm xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release is ok
<skaet> knome,  yup that's fine from my perpective.   Just need to know where.
<skaet> so the announce can reference it. :)
<knome> skaet, yeah, that will be the url
<skaet> coolio.  :)
<knome> great
<astraljava> sweet
<pleia2> goodness the twitter natives are already restless about release timing
<ochosi> knome: not sure you also read the blog-post about unity-support, but since pleia2 was kind enough to go over it i thought it's fine to publish it
<ochosi> pleia2: i think we should show the name of the post-author somewhere
<ochosi> pleia2: and maybe even add an option to display the function in the xubuntu team
<pleia2> I think it's a theme thing
<ochosi> yes, it should be easy to add that in wordpress
<ochosi> knome: ^ ;)
<ochosi> i mostly wanted to ask you about your opinion on that
<pleia2> but yeah, post author would be nice
<ochosi> i mean people can easily guess that i write most artwork articles
<ochosi> but with other articles it's less clear
<ochosi> and i think it's still important to see who's saying what
<ochosi> otherwise we'd consequently have to s/I/we in all posts...
<GridCube> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRNYo6gMhTg
<ochosi> strange, looks like he's using an older version, xfce4-mixer is still installed
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> its weird
<GridCube> the wallpaper is also wrong
<GridCube> :/
<ochosi> yes, well as i said, an older version
<ochosi> that's the 11.10 wallpaper, it was in 12.04 until i don't know when
<GridCube> dunno
<ochosi> night everyone! (and happy release!)
<GridCube> but its a nice review anyway, although he is missing the nice sound control and other stuff
<GridCube> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-26
<astraljava> Ehh... after a while, I just saw the all-gray terminal of Xubuntu.
<astraljava> ;)
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> its awesome
<GridCube> you open it and go... oooooh
<astraljava> oooohh... where did all the colors go from my monitor?!
<GridCube> :P no, more like oooooh... thats nice!
<GridCube> i have made all the interfaces i can "all grey"
<astraljava> I use gray too, but lots of shades of it. :)
<GridCube> astraljava, http://imagebin.org/209761
<GridCube> :P
<astraljava> Well that really is quite... gray.
<GridCube> C:
<pleia2> knome: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/precise/ the precise_ images are for our screenshots page which we should publish soon, the x.png files are numbered similiarly but are shrunk versions of the precise_ ones for the front page
<pleia2> or whatever you want to do :)
<pleia2> ah, I see what the person was saying about the website lying, the last page of our countdown banner is showing which says "Download Xubuntu 12.04 now!"
<pleia2> er "being silly"
<astraljava> Well, it's not strictly lying, it's not saying 12.04 Final. :D
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> Ah, I see.
<pleia2> ok, I snagged a screenshot for http://xubuntu.org/help/
<pleia2> I think then we'll have http://xubuntu.org/tour/ to do
<pleia2> and we should put together some new FAQ
<pleia2> (same 10, review answers?)
<GridCube> probably
<GridCube> we have a few new ones
<pleia2> good
<GridCube> mostly samba shares, use gigolo
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> ok, uploaded http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/precise/open_xchat-p.png for /help
<GridCube> i found the other thing that had to go to faq and was the resize thing, but ochosi already did an awesome faq for it
<GridCube> another thing we could add is the anoying thunar issue, the workaround works pretty well
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> everytime i plug the headphones a crash report pops up indicating blueman crashed
<GridCube> but i dont have bluthooth stuff
<GridCube> blueman-applet
<micahg> GridCube: please file a bug
<GridCube> i get a "know issue" from the crash reports handler and nothing more
<GridCube> not even a link to the known isue isue
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/988656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988656 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-applet fails in xubuntu 12.04 everytime a headphone jack is plugged in" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> GridCube: There should be a button for "Details"
<GridCube> Unit193, yes, thats how i know its the blueman-applet
<Unit193> It gave me the bug number when I did it, but it was one digit off. :P
<GridCube> its funny how consistent it is :P
<micahg> he filed 2 bugs
<Unit193> Really weird...
<Unit193> "appending screenshot of the report and a dump of lshw. please inform me if you need extra information" That's the addition, you think he may have hit the back button?
<knome> damn, my intelligent script didn't work then ;)
<Unit193> s/ent/ence/
<knome> nope, it's not an intelligence script :P
<knome> i just updated the frontpage to at least serve the "soon" image
<astraljava> It's a script, please don't think it's intelligent.
<astraljava> Right, Unit193?
<Unit193> astraljava: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<astraljava> See?
<knome> \o/
<knome> the slideshow script is working as expected
<knome> pleia2, thanks for the screenshots. they are up! 
<knome> okay, the countdown banners should now say "soon" !! \o/
<ochosi> hi everyone
<astraljava> o/
<ochosi> hehe, clever hiding abiword behind gnumeric in the slideshow :p
<knome> release notes at xubuntu.org are in line with the ones in the wiki
<knome> IF YOU DO ANY CHANGES, please make sure it's going in both.
<ochosi> haven't taken a look at the release notes yet
<knome> awwh!
<knome> why you little...!
<ochosi> but i guess i can say everytime: with $release, artwork has improved a lot, the look is more polished and everything's perrty!
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> and anyway, i spent more energy on trying to blog stuff lately
<ochosi> which reminds me, what do you think of showing the post-author?
<ochosi> (i'm looking at the release-notes now, but really, i don't think there's anything for me to add)
<knome> author worksforme
<ochosi> the question is whether it'll also be visible on the planet (where most of our readers are probably)
<knome> nope.
<knome> until you either type it in the post
<knome> or add a plugin which does that for you
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> something like "The author of this post is Simon SteinbeiÃ who is the Xubuntu Artwork Lead. In addition to Xubuntu, he works extensively on the Shimmer Project and Xfce. ..."
<ochosi> yeah, something like that would be useful
<ochosi> i guess something like a custom field or a tag could work?
<knome> mmh, those aren't pulled to planet
<ochosi> mkay
<knome> that's why it needs to be technically *in the post*
<ochosi> yeah, i see
<ochosi> well i can add my "signature" to all my posts by hand...
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> or we make a signature-plugin
<ochosi> and add a field to the profile
<knome> we could definitely write one
<ochosi> i mean the user-profile
<knome> yep
<knome> and you could even show that in the post page
<knome> and if you wanted, you could edit that per-post
<knome> say, you wanted to tell you just got a new puppy
<ochosi> yeah, but the simple way of auto-adding the signature to the post would be sufficient imo
<ochosi> in fact it would only have to autoadd --sig to every new post you create. so you could edit it by hand anyway
<knome> mmh.
<knome> yeah
<knome> that would work probably
<ochosi> if i add that now to my posts, will that re-feed them to the planet?
<knome> it shouldn't, since we switched back to the better rss2 feed
<knome> (rather than atom, which refeeded because there was only one date-field)
<knome> try with the newest post first
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> (whoa, being able to work with wordpress instead of drupal is such a blessing...)
<knome> yup.
<ochosi> ok, i added a signature now
<knome> you *could* do such things in drupal, but it would be a world war every time ;)
<ochosi> i guess for the style of it, italic font is fine?
<ochosi> well even just the user-interface of wordpress is solid gold
<knome> yeah, italic
<knome> true
<knome> it would be cool to integrate the author gravatar to the sig too.
<ochosi> good idea
<knome> and maybe style it that it stands out a bit more
<knome> but that's for later
<ochosi> yes, a box or something
<knome> maybe not a box box, but yeah
<ochosi> doesn't seem like the planet got updated
<ochosi> i mean the post is still old there
<knome> yeah, shouldn't have
<knome> but the planet updates like every 10mins
<ochosi> ok
<knome> so maybe wait for 15
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> yesterday night i had a few ideas for 12.10
<knome> hehe
<knome> did you add them to the roadmap?
<ochosi> no, i'll tell you first and then you'll tell me that's bs :)
<knome> haha
<knome> k
<knome> well, the community should decide that, but... ;)
<ochosi> 1) replace the menu by fullscreen appfinder with dark style (kinda like the gnome-shell activities launcher)
<ochosi> 2) write a small programm that displays our keyboard-shortcuts when holding the super-key (like in ubuntu atm, i think that's a valuable thing)
<knome> 1) possible, but that will need extensive testing and we should still provide the menu as an alternative 
<knome> 2) yeah, but who's gonna write that? ;)
<ochosi> i dunno, it doesn't sound very hard
<ochosi> and i think i know someone who might do that
<knome> yeah, it's probably rather trivial, but still somebody should do that
<ochosi> i recently contacted sean davis (the guy who submitted so many bugreports for P on LP)
<ochosi> he does simple pygtk apps from what i saw on g+
<knome> ah
<ochosi> i'll ask him about it
<knome> k
<ochosi> (he already said he wants to contribute in Q via email)
<madnick> To me, an app such as that sounds like, what I often call "X Hell"
<ochosi> madnick: why's that?
<madnick> But I'm not sure what you mean. But I suspect you mean something global
<knome> stochastic, hai
<madnick> Xlib, or if you are lucky, some VM tricks
<stochastic> knome, hi
<madnick> WM*
<ochosi> madnick: i have no clue how ubuntu did it, i'd just fork whatever they did for the holding-superkey implementation
<knome> what if that was just a keybind that ran a script that printed a notify-box? :P
<knome> stochastic, did you know you're join/quit/joining?
<knome> 11:59 Â» stochastic [~stochasti@d207-81-38-154.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<madnick> knome: cloak
<knome> 11:59 Â» stochastic [~stochasti@d207-81-38-154.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Changing host]
<knome> 11:59 Â» stochastic [~stochasti@pdpc/supporter/bronze/stochastic] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<ochosi> knome: yes, but then it would have to be a more complex keybinding than "hold super-key for 5sec)
<knome> madnick, yes, but that's avoidable...
<knome> stochastic, try setting your nickserv pass as the server password :)
<ochosi> knome: i like the fact that you're our irc evangelist :)
<Unit193> knome: Trying to set them all right? I like that.
<stochastic> knome, this was just now?  I'll check into that.
<knome> ochosi, maybe, unless the keybind was super, and the script sleeped for 5secs and checked if super was still pressed ;)
<knome> ochosi, but yeah, i can see a bumpy road that way...
<ochosi> knome: yeah, possibly, i'll try to investigate that a bit (if we really want it)
<knome> Unit193, well, when i have time to notice the users, i will ;)
<knome> Unit193, especially in -devel, since i want as short logs as possible
<astraljava> knome: While I do understand the policy of telling them the release is at the end of 26th, UTC, I also don't like misleading them.
<knome> astraljava, what do you suggest then
<Unit193> Says "By the end"
<astraljava> Telling that it'll be released somtime during the 26th UTC.
<knome> right
<knome> yes
<knome> that's a subtle difference :)
<knome> happy?
<Unit193> But, mien is more technically correct.
<knome> Unit193, actually not
<knome> at least not more correct
<knome> but might be misunderstood to say it's released at the end
<astraljava> Cause my current understanding is that it's not that long anymore, so people will get pi*... angry if they find out it's been out for several hours already, thus rendering them useless in clogging Canonical's pipes.
<Unit193> Now I have to reset the alias.....
<knome> oh my :)
<knome> astraljava, hehe
<ochosi> knome: ok, the planet shows the post correctly now
<knome> ochosi, good
<ochosi> i'll add the signature to the resize-window post as well for consistency
<ochosi> knome: i think the least we should do now is add a signature-css
<knome> ochosi, site-update-wise, that's as "hard" as just writing the plugin and pushing that :)
<ochosi> oh, i forgot about that...
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> if we had ssh access to the server, that would probably be in already
<knome> you can add inline css yourself though
<knome> just edit in the html mode
<knome> <p style="css: here;">text</p>
<ochosi> hmyeah, of course
<ochosi> but then we'd have to settle on a css style first ;)
<ochosi> interesting, gthumb 3.0 is out
<knome> well, once we push the css/plugin, we will need to fix those paragraphs anyway
<knome> so it doesn't matter if you added something that isn't final
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> knome: sry, don't have time (and creativity) to think of a nice signature-css-style now, if you have ideas feel free to make it
<knome> ochosi, i will think of that some time later
<knome> whether that was with the plugin code or just css ;)
<ochosi> yup
<knome> ablomen, merge request accepted, added you to credits :)
<knome> ablomen, thanks!
<ablomen> knome, Cool, no problem! I'll go over the other javascript code in the coming days whenever I'm bored at work :)
<knome> ablomen, great :)
<ochosi> knome: any opinion on bug #982820
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 982820 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Greybird metacity window title off-centre" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982820
<knome> ochosi, it's off centre even with xfwm.
<ochosi> yes, that's because of the uneven number of elements
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i think it would have to be fixed in xfwm4 itself
<knome> i don't know metacity well enough to have a specific opinion or insight on that
<knome> maybe ask for a shot without the fix and with the fix
<knome> and if it proves to be as he says, then i'm all in for dropping the fix in.
<ochosi> i already did that
<ochosi> read my comment ;)
<knome> ah
<ochosi> unfortunately my second comment was dumped by LP
<knome> yeah, i actually read it, but missed the last comment in the comment ;)
<ochosi> the centering works in metacity as it does in xfwm4
<ochosi> so centering is always based on the window-buttons
<knome> mmhmm
<ochosi> if you have them on the left (like ubuntu does by default) you'll need the -36 to have the title centered
<knome> i mean, go for it if it fixes it
<knome> is there any possibility the buttons and the text could overlap?
<ochosi> no, the point is that there is no fixing it
<knome> hm?
<ochosi> you can either optimize it for min,max,close buttons on the left or on the right
<ochosi> setting the value to 0 doesn't center the title, it's just the value between those two options
<knome> aha
<knome> pleia2, can we maybe set up an email list for the twitter account?
<knome> pleia2, i mean, then we'd all get notifications
<knome> pleia2, i'm also thinking if there is some notifications for the g+ account, we could use the list for that too
<ochosi> knome: the title is always centered relative to the title-element, not window-width
<knome> ochosi, right
<knome> ochosi, in xfwm and metacity
<knome> ?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> then i'd say center it in the title-element
<knome> in both
<ochosi> in xfwm4 it is centered in the title element already
<knome> i know
<ochosi> i guess in metacity it was set-up like this because i didn't originally write the theme myself
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> knome: the release notes look fine from my pov
<knome> ochosi, yeah, they should
<knome> ochosi, what's your schedule today?
<knome> pleia2, you too ^ ?
<ochosi> lunch > now :)
<ochosi> then i'll have to grade papers from a course i gave this semester
<ochosi> i'll probably be back sometime in the afternoon, then i'll be away again from 6-9pm
<knome> mmh
<ochosi> not sure i'll return today
<ochosi> why?
<knome> okay well
<knome> if i'm not here when ubuntu is released
<knome> may i give you short instructions what to do
<knome> create a file named released.txt
<knome> in the file, type released
<knome> then upload it as attachment to the "12.04 is released" article
<knome> and the countdown banners should say "download it now"
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> sounds complicated ;)
<knome> yeah, really!
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> ok, and then publish the article?
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> if i'm around i can do it
<knome> yeah
<knome> for the Q cycle
<knome> i will do a simple site with basic_auth
<knome> to set the release date and name
<knome> and to change the "released" bit
<knome> so we don't need to fall back on IS, or wordpress
<knome> (we did both today)
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> lunch ->
<knome> bon appetit
 * knome bbl
<madnick> I bought awesome food this morning, but I forgot the main ingredient :(
<madnick> oh, this is not -offtopic, sorry heh
<ochosi> ubuntu has reportedly been released, what about us?
<davmor2> ochosi: Xubuntu is listed in the release notice
<PopeJob> but the link is dead
<PopeJob> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release
<ochosi> bbl
<Shayan> hi'
<Shayan> anyone here?
<astraljava> Yes.
 * pleia2 rubs eyes
<Shayan> sorry didn't see you there
<pleia2> ok, now to figure out where he put the info
<Shayan> ok so i wanted to know that what programming language is xubuntu made in?
<Shayan> and when is it coming out
<Shayan> HELLO?
<astraljava> Xubuntu is a compilation of various packages. Each application could be programmed in a different language. I suggest you read more into how distributions are compiled. It's going to be out during today, Thursday 26th of April. Also, please have a little more patiance.
<astraljava> patience*
<pleia2> it's out
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release/
<pleia2> came out about an hour ago :)
<pleia2> not sure why our front page isn't updating, and I uploaded the released.txt like knome said
<Pjotr> Hello, I'm eager for Xubuntu 12.04. Hasn't it been released yet?
<pleia2> ...and now our site is down (but so is ubuntu.com)
<pleia2> Pjotr: release day is always crazy, it was released an hour ago but mirrors and things haven't finished updating
<Shayan> i am so happy now i can leave this *BEEP* windows
<pleia2> Shayan: this isn't the place for that
<Pjotr> pleia2: OK.... do you have a link to a working mirror for me?
<pleia2> Pjotr: no, sorry
<Shayan> sorry i promise i wont do that again
<pleia2> ubuntu.com isn't even loading for me at the moment ;)
<Shayan> please don't ban me
<Shayan> me niether
<astraljava> knome: Who do we have with ops on #xubuntu? I'm getting real tired of the cruft there.
<pleia2> astraljava: /msg chanserv access #xubuntu list
<astraljava> Ahh thanks.
<Shayan> where do i download xubuntu it isn't available a GET XUBUNTU
<pleia2> Shayan: please be patient
<Shayan> i am trying to figure it out
<Shayan> i found it
<Shayan> here you go
<Shayan> http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/desktop/
<pleia2> the mirrors haven't all synced, we don't have a full listing to update the download page with
<Shayan> oh
<pleia2> ok, I updated /getxubuntu with a note so hopefully people will calm down
<Shayan> ok
<Shayan> who are you and how do you have the acces to the website
<Shayan> ???
<pleia2> Shayan: I'm the team website lead
<astraljava> Shayan: Have you noticed that you're on -devel channel? It's likely that people who develop the project hang out in here.
<pleia2> you're in the development channel
<Shayan> i know i just wanted to join and check it out
<Shayan> i also joined the mailing list
<Shayan> i am a huge GNU/Linux fan
<Shayan> how can i help?
<Shayan> and is Python involved
<madnick> Shayan: Hi
<madnick> Testing is always welcome, and Python is involved, but I am not sure about anything that needs attention that is written in Python
<madnick> atm anyway
<pleia2> ok http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/ is starting to populate properly
<Shayan> ok
<Shayan> thanks
<Shayan> thanks
<Shayan> now please update the Get Xubuntu Page So others can download
<pleia2> Shayan: please be patient, the mirrors haven't finished syncing and not all the images are up yet
<Shayan> ok
<Shayan> and what about the torrents?
<Shayan> I am very impatient LOL
 * madnick is on old images
<pleia2> sigh, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/ is empty again :\
<pleia2> I don't know how the magic behind this iso generation all happens
<Shayan> WHAT ABOUT THE TORRENTS???????
<pleia2> Shayan: please stop :(
<Shayan> sorry
<pleia2> yelling at us won't make it happen faster, you're just being mean
<Shayan> ok
<Shayan> what about torrents*sad face* i will never type in capital letters again
<pleia2> asking over and over again won't help either
<pleia2> stop it
<Shayan> ok sorry
<Shayan> i won't ask again
<astraljava> Well, that topic is not development-related at all, so please join #xubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-release-party for anxious release queries.
<pleia2> knome: I put a note on http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ for now while we wait for everything to get settled image and mirror-wise, and the released.txt didn't seem to work (or the server is full of wonky caching)
<pleia2> I need to go get another hour of sleep, long work day today + release party tonight
<pleia2> (sorry astraljava, hate to leave you)
<astraljava> pleia2: It's alright, someone's gotta play the shepherd. :)
 * pleia2 hugs
<astraljava> But I'm going to be gone soon anyway. :D
<astraljava> At least for a while.
<pleia2> hopefully knome will come back soon :)
<astraljava> He's on much-needed vacation. *smirk*
<knome> pleia2, the frontpage used a static link. i fixed the page, but it seems there definitely is some caching going on
<knome> ah, the cache was refreshed :)
<baizon> well done guys. Thank you for your hard work :)
<knome> thanks
 * knome is away again, when the mirrors seem to be (mostly) working, can somebody update the download page finally? thanks
<knome> astraljava, just added you to -website, you are able to edit pages too.
<astraljava> That's good and all, but I wouldn't know how... *grin*
<astraljava> knome: Could you now change /topic to point to the download page? Also if there's a quick info command for the bot, that'd rule. We're getting hammered on the support chan.
<pleia2> browsing mirrors now to update the site
<astraljava> Yeah that will help as well, thanks!
<astraljava> Ahh... he's gone again.
<GridCube> :) lottawork in here it seems
<GridCube> keep the woodworks 
<astraljava> I think we need to ask permissions for a bigger dev crowd, it's times like these when the current system "breaks". :)
<astraljava> pleia2: Feel free to give me a brief lesson for updating the site, I'm in the group now.
<pjotr> Hello, I'm getting some complaints on the Dutch Ubuntu forum, about the Xubuntu website
<pjotr> They want to download Xubuntu 12.04, and can't from the get page:http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
<pjotr> I propose an 'intermediate' solution: please remove all references to 11.10 and 10.04, and place a link to the cdimage server: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/
<pjotr> What do you think?
<Supp3rMario> I belive they are still syncing mirrors...
<pjotr> Yes, so I propose an intermediate temporary solution...
<astraljava> pjotr: Yes, thank you. The situation is under review, so some action will be taken soon.
<pleia2> pjotr: it's been updated with the current mirrors, people are probably just being stuck in the cache
<pleia2> if they are still getting the page with 11.10 and 10.04 it does have a note at the top explaining "Note: Xubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) images are currently syncing to mirrors, we will update when they are available."
<pleia2> unfortunately due to the load IS has had to take advantage of pretty heavy caching, so it may take a few minutes to show up
<pjotr> OK, I suppose it's more a matter of minutes than hours then, before it'll be allright.  :-)
<pleia2> I assure you, we've been working hard for a few hours to get this all sorted
<pleia2> it took a while for the images to become largely available at all, and we've had some hard downtime
<pjotr> I know you guys work hard.... And you made the best Xubuntu yet!  12.04 is really a winner.
<astraljava> Thanks, the devs will appreciate that! :)
<pleia2> sweet, I misspelled pangolin on the download page
 * pleia2 fixes
<GridCube> pagnolin? sarahpalin?
<pleia2> Pangloin :P
<pleia2> I'm tired :)
<astraljava> What?! It's only morning there. :D
<GridCube> :P rest
<pleia2> I got up at 6AM, took a nap between 7:30 and 8:30, now back :D
<pjotr> Well, the nicknames of Ubuntu are notorious.  :P Have a couple of beers on me, and relax. You well deserve your recreation. :-)
<pleia2> the release party here isn't for another 10 hours, I'll have a beer then :)
<astraljava> pleia2: Damn, he left? I'd love to have a few brewskies on someone else, too. :D
<pleia2> lol
<knome> !12.04
<ubottu> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the current release of Ubuntu.  Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1204
<knome> !-precise 
<ubottu> precise aliases: pangolin, 12.04 - added by Pici on 2011-10-05 19:38:43 - last edited by Pici on 2012-04-26 12:25:30
<knome> !-12.04
<ubottu> 12.04 is <alias> precise - added by Pici on 2011-10-05 19:39:09 - last edited by Pici on 2012-04-26 12:24:43
<knome> yeah..
<pleia2> knome: btw, twitter only sends you email when someone you're following mentions/replies to you, and we don't follow anyone
<knome> ah
<knome> right
<pleia2> I don't think it should be like this, but twitter kind of sucks :\
<knome> well, mentions would be good
<pleia2> (in the preferences it doesn't seem like this would be the case)
<knome> wouldn't have to check via web
<pleia2> but I only get emails when people follow us
<knome> twitter had rss feeds until recently
<knome> but the disabled them
<knome> *they
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> btw, we don't have 64-bit torrents
<knome> ouch.
<knome> reason?
<pleia2> I don't know
<pleia2> http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/desktop/
<knome> asked at -release
<pleia2> hmm, I guess we have them on our regular download page but not on torrent.ubuntu
<knome> weird
<knome> pleia2, maybe join -release for coordination :)
<astraljava> Hmm? I see them, and it appears to offer downloading them.
<GridCube> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/precise/release/
<GridCube> they are there :/
<pleia2> GridCube: yeah, as I said, they aren't on torrent.ubuntu.com (the link we give people who want the torrents)
<astraljava> Ahh... so just missing from the torrent.u.c? Nice.
<knome> there seems to be some heavy caching, but i update the "released" post on the website to link to the download page as well as the complete release notes at the ubuntu wiki
<knome> probably up in ten or so mins
<knome> trying to reply to people who have problems in twitter, but answer in a general way to give insight to others too
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<pleia2> btw, another "feature" of twitter is if you're not following someone who is replied to, it won't show up in your feed
<pleia2> so only people looking directly at the xubuntulinux page will see your replies to random people they don't follow
<knome> yeah.
<knome> that's not too bad really
<pleia2> it used to be an option to turn on/off
<knome> well, it's rather bad, but not horrible
<knome> the caching is really heavy today
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> woo, one more mirror up
<knome> hihi
<knome> ah, finally
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release/ is updated! 
<pleia2> :)
<knome> bleh, yeah, seems like the amd64 torrents do not work :(
<knome> actually, the work, but throw an error nevertheless
<pleia2> ah
<knome> i seem to be able to download and upload too
<pleia2> this is a lousy time zone to help with a release in :)
<knome> how so?
<pleia2> it was released at 5AM!
<knome> hehe
<astraljava> Hah!
<knome> well, aren't you still up at that time?
<astraljava> pleia2: Wanna switch?
<pleia2> knome: nah, I got to bed at 1 in anticipation of getting up early ;)
<knome> ;)
 * knome slept long without worrying too much anyway
<knome> things either work or not
 * astraljava also slept like 3 hours, but mostly due to Caps @ Bruins game. And we lost...
<pleia2> astraljava: doh :)
<knome> ^ and that's not because i don't care about QA, that's just because that's it
<knome> astraljava, so what are you doing on friday?
<pleia2> I miss the east coast time zone, I didn't realize the world revolved around New York until after I moved ;)
<astraljava> knome: No, you don't care about QA cause you have me! :D
<knome> astraljava, i mean, tomorrow:)
<knome> astraljava, well that too, but that's different to this issue ;)
<astraljava> knome: Probably trying to organize the moving, and I fear I also have to sit in a completely pointless business meeting with an aussie and his friend... *grin*
<knome> hahah
<knome> congrats :P
<knome> sounds boring.
<astraljava> I'm yawning already.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i can imagine.
<astraljava> But two weeks from that, we need to come up with something cool.
<astraljava> I'll be totally exhausted, though. But still.
<knome> haha :)
<knome> maybe try to set up some kind of FOSS meeting?
<knome> i was thinking of registering commit.fi, but that was taken by some healthcare solutions company
<astraljava> Yeah, something like that.
<knome> i'd love a homer server somewhere tied to a domain.
<knome> i mean, with ssh/website capabilities
<knome> some kind of collaborative effort to achieve something
<knome> world peace or sth.
<knome> if it can be reliable, and with a decent internet connection, why not for irc clients too.
<knome> i mean, with an i-line to a few networks...
<astraljava> I have dyndns setup for one machine, we could utilize that.
<knome> dyndns :|
<astraljava> Of course the machine is not connected now.
<knome> well yeah.
<astraljava> Well, it's better than nothing, for starters.
<knome> i was thinking of something that is as stable as kapsi
<astraljava> It can be used for testing and development.
<astraljava> Well of course.
<astraljava> But at first stages.
<knome> (i know i've learnt to like 'too good')
<astraljava> I don't think the dyndns is too unstable, though.
<astraljava> It's a beefy 100/10 line.
<knome> well of course you can point domains there too.
<astraljava> But of course they'll take it down if we really start to utilize it much.
<knome> especially non fi-domains, since joker offers dns servers
<knome> yes, of course.
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> that's the problem :D
<astraljava> But in all fairness, I'd only really use it during development.
<astraljava> I am not interested in setting up reliable hosting in my apartment.
<knome> i can't think of any case where i'd need any other server than what launchpad and github can offer me
<knome> except some private repositories, but on the other hand, i don't want them to be visible to others anyway
<astraljava> Yeah, and virtual hosting is so easy these days.
<knome> yeah.
<pleia2> knome: btw, if you want to get the following emails for twitter I can forward them to you (I already filter them, easy enough to add a forward address too)
<pleia2> we got like 25 followers today :)
<knome> yeah, a good bunch.
<knome> we hit 500 three days ago
<astraljava> knome: support question on support channel, and one that I'm interested about, too. So please answer. :)
<knome> heh
<knome> amd64 torrents are at torrent.ubuntu.com now too.
<knome> and at least i didn't get any errors now
<knome> pleia2, want to write a "it's out" mail to xubuntu-users ? :)
<pleia2> sure
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> linked up http://xubuntu.org/press/precise/ (I created the page last night)
<pleia2> added the first link to it!
<knome> i think forwarding the mail from ubuntu-announce with a small message is fine i think
<knome> oh, i have an another
<knome> from twitter
<knome> http://www.smdavis.us/2012/04/26/xubuntu-12-04-released/
<knome> i'll update
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> warning! a princess is editing the page
<pleia2> sorry, out
<knome> hehe
<knome> np ;)
<knome> updated
<knome> hoho, seems like there was no cache or the caching is tuned down a bit
<knome> the torrents seem to be fully operating now
<knome> i double-checked, and torrent.ubuntu.com have all the .torrent and .iso files
 * knome is seeding all the images, amd64 images are 100% finished, others 92% and 35%
<knome> (i have least of the i386 desktop, and i suppose that's good because it probably has the best seeding anyway)
<knome> at least most peers
<knome> by far
<knome> alternate amd64 has 8 peers :D
<knome> alternate i386 done!
<pleia2> working on the post to -users but my boss keeps wanting me to do work
<knome> awwh, crap
<pleia2> knome: on 10.04 will the update manager let them know they can upgrade?
<pleia2> oh wait, I have a 10.04 system
 * pleia2 goes to check
<knome> pleia2, according to -release, not before .1
<knome> pleia2, withtout -d
 * knome is now seeding all images
<pleia2> knome: yeah, I saw the do-release-upgrade -d thing, wasn't sure if the update manager would pop up a thing saying "12.04 is here!"
<pleia2> like it does on 11.10
<knome> pleia2, no, it won't until .1
<pleia2> gotcha
<knome> but i can't personally confirm that
<knome> if you can, i can tweet that
<pleia2> that's too many words, I won't mention 10.04 in the -users announcement
<pleia2> if someone asks I'll think about it then ;)
<knome> i can try to tweet that if you think it's useful ;)
<knome> Upgraders from 10.04 to 12.04: Please use 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d', notification for the distribution upgrade won't pop up until 12.04.1
<knome> that's exactly the tweet length
<pleia2> perfect!
<pleia2> and I already hit send
<knome> want me to tweet that? ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> everything is too slow for me to do tests of this stuff yet
<knome> done
<knome> mmh
<pleia2> half my downloads are failing, it's just annoying
<knome> yeah
<astraljava> knome: Oh yes it does, from 11.10. From 10.04, it needs the -d switch.
<knome> astraljava, yes
<knome> astraljava, that's why the tweet says "Upgraders from 10.04 to 12.04"
<astraljava> Oh sorry, missed a few lines.
<knome> np
<pleia2> ok, replied to my own email with that line
<knome> hihi
<astraljava> So we're actively encouraging the LTS-to-LTS upgrade?
<astraljava> ...before the first point release?
<pleia2> I don't know about "actively encouraging" but it is technically is a supported option and we should let people know how to do it if they want
<knome> no, we are not
<knome> yeah
<knome> many people do want to do that
 * pleia2 will wait for .1 ;)
<astraljava> Yeah well, elaborating on the issue sounds like that to me. :)
<astraljava> But ok, I am just preparing myself for the myriad of issues bound to that procedure. :)
<knome> heh
<knome> astraljava, https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/195578269108674561
<knome> " Â¡Yo ya bajÃ© xubuntu 12.04 x torrent! Ahora estoy compartiendo... Â¿vos que estÃ¡s esperando para bajarlo? "
<knome> ^ ideas what that means? ;)
<astraljava> Oh yeah, I speak esperanto fluently.
<knome> heh
<knome> i knew it!
<pleia2> 17 twitter followers in the past hour, we're over 600 :)
<knome> yeah :)
 * knome has the "connect" page open in firefox too
<knome> along with transmission and irc
<pleia2> we have ruined you
<knome> yeah :(
<knome> i've thought of starting to tweet personally too
 * astraljava hangs head in shame
<astraljava> Look at what they've done to you, man!
<knome> but i figured out most of the tweets i'd send is about xubuntu anyway, so no reason to.
<astraljava> PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER!
<knome> pleia2, why does twitter.com say 589 followers? :(
<knome> and on some pages, 594
<knome> *584
<knome> caching?:<
<pleia2> I dunno, it tells me 612
<knome> weird
<knome> ah, did a hard refresh and there it is, 612
<knome> off for a walk, bbl
<Unit193> jono: I think you have a connection issue, or I'm having a screen issue.
<jono> Unit193, I am on a plane, connection keeps dropping
<Unit193> Heh, that'd do it.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-27
<ochosi> ahoi
<knome> hoi ochosi! :D
<knome> congrats
 * knome is completely drunk
<knome> just read the -offtopic backlog
<knome> i've had almost 5 tonight
<knome> average being way over 7%
<ochosi> haha
<knome> see -offtopic (originally pfftoic, but typos fixed!)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> knome: btw, another point for Q, possibly re-think typography (related link: http://elementary-project.com/journal/typography-gtk3 )
<knome> let me (try) to read that
<ochosi> good luck! :)
<knome> done!
<knome> and replied
<knome> brb
<knome> astraljava, madnick, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, Unit193: THANKS! :)
<micahg> knome: see you at UDS?
<knome> micahg, nope :/ can't attend in person at least this time
<knome> micahg, maybe if it's in EU next time or the schedules match...
<ScottL> i want to use ubuntu-mono for ubuntu studio next cycle, however i know i'm going to be actively discouraged from doing it
<Unit193> Don't do it!! You'll ruin Studio and OpenSource software as we know it!
<micahg> knome: any xubuntu people coming?
<Unit193> Wasn't pleia2? She's Xubuntu.
<micahg> yeah, well, it's basically in her backyard ;)
<pleia2> update getxubuntu with some more mirrors which have finished syncing
<pleia2> updated
<knome> good, thanks
<pleia2> where do we get this list? I think some may be gone and we need to update it
 * knome signs in the "feeling alive" group
<knome> pleia2, it's been just carried on from before
<Unit193> I actually placed them all up on a httpd, but there is no way I'd give the link out other than personally. :P
 * pleia2 is not feeling alive
<knome> pleia2, awwh, how many did you have then?
<pleia2> hah, only 2, but I have been too busy lately so I'm just exhausted
<knome> aha
 * knome had a few more, and rum
<pleia2> :)
<knome> similar to the 6 >7% beer session...
<pleia2> should probably add this to our FAQ: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<Unit193> Yes, would be good.
<pleia2> where is Gridcube, he is my pastebin for FAQ things :)
<knome> pleia2, tweeted
<Unit193> Any way I can helpers?
<pleia2> gracias
<knome> we need a Top 10 FAQ for precise
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> ah, we used a google doc for collaboratively creating it last time, s'why I couldn't find it in wiki
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> should create another one and post it to -devel
<pleia2> Unit193: you can do that :)
<knome> did you notice the new wiki header?
<knome> i think we should use the wiki
<pleia2> oh ok
<knome> even if it is a "bit" slow
<pleia2> oh, that sure is new
<knome> oh well
<knome> i'm personally okay with wiki or google doc
<knome> just make sure the url gets around
<knome> pleia2, you have some time?
<knome> i'm going to bed soon (probably in 15), but i could do some brainstorming before that
<pleia2> not now, wrapping up work and then going out for a couple hours (even though I don't want to)
<knome> ah
<knome> okay
<knome> np then
<pleia2> I should be around this weekend :)
<knome> let's try to catch each other later
<knome> yeah, i'm not sure how much i'm around, but at least some
<pleia2> ok
<Unit193> ...So belay that order.
<knome> actually, you'll probably not notice the difference
<knome> i'll be off daytime tomorrow only
<pleia2> oh yes, that's when I sleep :)
<knome> yeah
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-28
<knome> pleia2, cleaned up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications
<pleia2> I know, I managed to fix wiki notifications (a wiki dude had me delete everything and readd it, somehow that worked) and now my inbox is full D:
<pleia2> I'll have a look in a bit, out the door now! have a good night :)
 * Unit193 doesn't get many. :D
<knome> haha
<knome> pleia2, have fun!
<Unit193> If it matters, checking it now.
<knome> updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu to say 12.04 is the newest :P
<Unit193> "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds"  That'll be updated later I'd guess.
<knome> mmh
<knome> i was just checking it
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily Testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<pleia2> knome: I'm awake and will be around for a few hours
 * pleia2 sends the plenary slides to jcastro
 * pleia2 takes cat to vet
<Unit193> That's one costly cat...
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-29
<CiPi> hello, I have a problem with the new Xubuntu 12.4 LTS. I can`t create a encrypted home directory from the beginning of install. I get: ubi-usersetup failed with exit code 1.
 * pleia2 waves to knome 
<knome> hai pleia2 :)
<pleia2> I might take a nap later, but I'm around now for a few hours :)
<knome> okay
<knome> so, shall we work on the wiki?
<pleia2> yes
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<knome> we should also probably look at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> " Xubuntu/Testing, move "How to contribute" to xubuntu.org; delete "Projects", but link to release schedule somewhere "
<knome> that's the todo-item
<pleia2> do we have an astraljava^Wvolunteer to take over for charlie re: testing lead?
<knome> astraljava has been pretty much working on the qa stuff lately
<knome> i don't know if we should have a "testing lead" in the same sense as before
<knome> i think with charlie, it meant he did majority of the tests
<knome> i don't want anybody to have that burden
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> it should be mostly a "make sure they get done, however you have to" thing
<knome> but there should be somebody that is coordinating the tests and getting publicity if we need more tests
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> let's not worry too much about that
<knome> i think testing should be a team effort anyway
<pleia2> well I'm asking because I wonder if it's better to coordinate changes with astraljava on the Testing pages :)
<knome> i'm sure he's happy with whatever we come up with
<pleia2> ok
<knome> i'm seeing him tomorrow, so he can hit me if it's crap
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> so, i'd start on the "projects" section
<knome> since that's about to be removed completely
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ok, so the last paragraph of Projects should be merged with last paragraph of How to Contribute
<knome> ...and they should both be moved to xubuntu.org
<knome> but most of that info is already there
 * knome is just logging in @x.org
<knome> are we linking to the TestingInfo pages from the QA ISO tracker?
<knome> if not, can we, and is it needed?
<knome> or could we add our testing info/testcases in the qa iso tracker wiki
<pleia2> for the hardware?
<knome> no
<pleia2> oh
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/216/builds/16047/testcases/143/results --> "Link to the testcase"
<pleia2> I sort of saw them as separate tests
<knome> yeah, but could we have some pages in the qa wiki
<knome> and tell the users to "do the normal tests first, then come back here"
<knome> even if the TestingInfo -page is linked from xubuntu.org, it's too easy to miss that while doing tests and reporting them to the QA tracker
<knome> since there is simply no link there
<knome> if we could incorporate the tests to the QA tracker, we would have all the information in one place
<pleia2> so http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopPostInstallation is what is linked now
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> and you can do all that stuff in xubuntu (I always did)
<knome> what if it was same.domain/Install/Xubuntu/Desktop or sth
<pleia2> but yeah, it's unclear where you go from there since it feels like the test is done
<knome> and linked to that page, plus having the short and long tests
<knome> i suppose that's possible
<knome> i just logged in to the qa testcases wiki
<knome> the thing is, we need to ask somebody to update the links to point to correct urls
<knome> but i imagine that is rather tricial
<knome> *trivial
<knome> i contacted stgraber on that already in PM
<pleia2> ok cool
<pleia2> yeah, so I think we do that
<pleia2> create and start linking to our own pages, then we can maintain them too
<knome> yeah, and that will further make the qa page at the website cleaner
<knome> yes
<knome> but anyway, what comes to the wiki now ;)
<knome> can't we just delete the projects section
<knome> as long as we link the release schedule somewhere
<pleia2> yeah, maybe move link to release schedule in the intro
<knome> yup
<pleia2> I can pop in and do this if you want
<knome> i'm on it
<pleia2> ok
<knome> done, and freed the lock
<knome> so, what about "how to contribute" ?
<pleia2> I'm going to make some quick changes there
<knome> sure
<knome> though
<knome> i think we can drop that
<knome> it's all at xubuntu.org
<pleia2> ah, yeah
<pleia2> me compares
<knome> i'm doing changes to the xubuntu.org page
<knome> just a sec
<pleia2> "To get started on testing Xubuntu, you should join the Xubuntu Testers group and add your name, hardware and other appropriate information in the Xubuntu Testers page on the wiki."
<pleia2> should swap "join launchpad" and "add info to the wiki"
<pleia2> since we want people to add info to the wiki first
<knome> update the page
<pleia2> (unless we just open the lp team up, which has been floated)
<pleia2> ah, good
<knome> fixed some small stuff
<knome> i think that renders the "how to contribute" page useless
<pleia2> agreed
<pleia2> except we should maybe link to the website?
<knome> " ccasional testing is welcome, but regular testing is even better" ?
<knome> +o
<knome> should we add that to the website
<knome> i think the order should be website -> wiki anyway
 * knome is hoping we can just point people to the "contribute" section on the website
<knome> and leave the wiki completely for those who already have decided to start contributing
<knome> so to say, only include things relevant to contribution itself
<pleia2> I think we still need to tie them together, in case someone new does end up on the wiki
<knome> that should be in the header then
<knome> i mean, look at the new header
<knome> there is next to no cruft
<knome> there is only stuff we really need
<pleia2> yeah, maybe move development assets all to point to the website?
<knome> the marketing and artwork -pages only list stuff we are working on
<knome> no, because we don't want to work on the marketing projects on the website
<knome> because we need a platform for that
<knome> which is the wiki, available for everybody
<pleia2> ok
<knome> the marketing frontpage on the wiki is something i'd like for testing too
<knome> it's the same with the ubiquity-slideshow
<knome> we don't need to talk the user to install xubuntu any more, since he is already doing it
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> so, we can think of adding a link like "contribute"/"get involved" in the wiki header
<knome> but let's not duplicate stuff from the website :)
 * pleia2 ponders
<knome> yup?
<pleia2> just looking through some pages to get my head around where we are linking things
<knome> yeah
<knome> as said, i'd like the direction to generally be website -> wiki
<pleia2> ok, in case someone lands on Xubuntu/Testing I think we keep the contribute section, but instead just link to the website
<pleia2> "Basic information about how to contribute found $link"
<knome> yeah.
<knome> probably do something similar for the artwork/marketing pages too then
<pleia2> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<pleia2> I'll jump in on marketing
<knome> so, "how to contribute" goes - what about "how it is organized" ?
<knome> i think most of that is just duplicating what we wrote in xubuntu.org
<pleia2> well, I think "how it is organized" will change a bit as we update the tracker (not sure how accurate it is anyway)
<knome> since we are going to have the pages in the qa wiki, i think we don't need to specifically describe the structure here
<knome> just make sure when somebody is linked to a testcase that the difference between the short and long test is explained there
<pleia2> yeah, I think before it was somewhat confusing to me just because there was a disconnect between the Long/ShortTest pages and the iso tracker
<pleia2> they felt like different things when they shouldn't have been
<knome> yes, exactly
<knome> that's exactly what i was thinking too
<knome> the intro text "The primary goal of Xubuntu Testing is to facilitate regular, organized testing of development releases of Xubuntu. If you have a spare hard drive or computer, and are interested in trying out the latest Xubuntu development releases, this is the place for you." is something i'd actually remove too
<knome> some things in TestingInfo would be good for the testing frontpage
<knome> well, i'm not sure even about that.
<knome> :|
<pleia2> so yeah, that intro text duplicates what is on the website
<knome> we probably should describe the alpha/beta/rc/final releases
<knome> but if possible, make it *shorter*
<knome> i wonder what the ubuntu testing wiki says
<pleia2> yeah, TestinInfo describes them but it could be formatted better
<pleia2> (not sure it's length so much as "aaah I don't want to read wall-of-text"
<knome> yeah, that
<pleia2> better formatting could make it better on the eyes
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO for the instructions on how to download
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones ah!
<pleia2> ah, very similar
<knome> it's probably the same
<knome> but we could just link
<pleia2> I actually just checked if it was Include-ed ;)
<knome> then we don't have to maintain
<knome> hehe
<knome> me too
<pleia2> but yeah, we should link
<knome> it's probably been the same
<knome> but the xubuntu text is outdated
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> cipi, do i smell an awaynick?
<knome> pleia2, i just pasted the link to TestingInfo for now
<pleia2> ok looks good
<pleia2> Downloading info is duplicated in the QA tracker, zsync info is good because most won't be familiar with it (I wasn't!)
<knome> i just added a todo item
<knome> ask stgraber to add a link to instrcutions from iso tracker download links
<pleia2> which instructions?
<knome> instructions on zsync
<knome> i mean, zsync is featured on the list
<pleia2> oh yes
<knome> so it wouldn't hurt to have a link to instructions there
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> again, rendering the duplication in the xubuntu wiki useless
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
<knome> also
<pleia2> good
<knome> just thrwe that link in too
<knome> "what you need is duplicating website information too?
<knome> or if not, maybe we should extend the xubuntu.org qa page
<pleia2> actually, maybe keep the actual command lines for xubuntu zsync? the generic ubuntu wiki link wouldn't have them
<knome> pleia2, no, but they are in the qa iso tracker
<pleia2> yeah, I suppose
<knome> for what? :)
<pleia2> it's fine
<knome> what is? :D
<pleia2> zsync stuff
<knome> yeah
<knome> the ideal situation is to have that link in the qa tracker
<knome> hmm.
<pleia2> ok, now on this page we need a link to the qa tracker
<knome> maybe a quick paragraph on:
<knome> "when you get started, you need to:"
<knome> * download the image
<knome> * report bugs
<knome> * report tests
<knome> "Testing Xubuntu does not help the developers unless the tests are reported." is a good one
<pleia2> yeah, maybe starting out with something like "The Xubuntu team uses the QA tracker, which has full details on how to do testing, but for a quick overview to get started you need to..."
<knome> yeah
<knome> xubuntu.org udpated
<knome> woops, where did the zsync link appear :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I'd add a link to the tracker again the second time you mention it
<knome> sure, i'll do some other minor improvements too
<pleia2> While the QA ISO testing tracker has all the necessary information on how to do testing, but <-- and remove "but"
<knome> k :)
<pleia2> (the rest is fine, just that single word, since we started the sentence with "While")
<knome> updated
<pleia2> great
<knome> okay good
<knome> notice how i linked to the zsync page too
<knome> so we don't need to in the wiki
<knome> maybe we should add the milestone link in the website too
<knome> TestingInfo is now down to only a few paragraphs
<pleia2> what do we want the TestingInfo page to have?
<knome> let's not come up with anything unless there is something we need to have
<pleia2> ah, on the website you can add to Download an ISO; "do an integrity check"
<knome> mm-hmm
<pleia2> if there isn't something we can link to, maybe quickly explaining how to do an md5sum on TestingInfo
<pleia2> ah, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM :)
<knome> page updated again
<pleia2> great
<knome> so
<knome> TestingInfo is down to one <p> :D
<knome> and i think that paragraph is rather useless
<knome> or, if we want
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods is crazy old, we shouldn't link to it
<knome> hehe
<knome> right
<knome> in that case, nvm the "or" :D
<knome> so
<knome> we have the milestones link
<knome> how to integrate that to xubuntu.org?
<pleia2> Testing <a href="milestones">versions under development</a>
<pleia2> hmm, no
<knome> no
<knome> i'm on it
<pleia2> since we test *before* the milestones
<knome> updated
<knome> -when
<pleia2> great
<knome> or -when just
<knome> == right before
<knome> so, should we go and move the TestingInfo subpages (Long/Short) to the qa wiki already
<pleia2> yep
<knome> then we could actually... *drumroll* remove Xubuntu/Testing
<pleia2> that's scary
<pleia2> :)
 * knome removed Xubuntu/Documentation already
<knome> and others
<knome> ;)
<knome> i wonder what the structure would be
<pleia2> ok, I think we're good on testing now
<knome> maybe we should wait until confirmation
<pleia2> yeah, in case astraljava wants something we deleted
<knome> and then move the subpages and remove X/Testing
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but what about the Testing page
<knome> should we just remove that
<pleia2> testing or testinginfo?
<knome> actually, both
<knome> then move Testing/Testers to Testing maybe
<knome> and update links
<knome> because that's pretty much the only thing we are going to track at wiki
<pleia2> yeah, I think we want some redirects though, since we do have blog posts and things in the wild linking to the old pages
<pleia2> or maybe keep Testing with a link to the website and have it link to Testing/Testers
<knome> or include
 * pleia2 hates delete
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I don't love include for things people edit, they get confused
<knome> i'll do link-to-website + include
<knome> meh.
<pleia2> wikis are hard enough, when they try to edit Testing and cant figure out where to add their name, scary :)
<knome> include + add a link with "Add your information here" that links to edit
<pleia2> ah, yeah
<knome> hehe
<knome> okay, i'll go for it
<pleia2> great
<knome> we don't even need to update the links then
<pleia2> yeah
 * knome is trying to type too fast, too many typos
<pleia2> hehe
<GridCube> :(
<knome> GridCube, ? :)
<pleia2> oh yeah, we'll need to yank out the header from Testers to include it
<knome> nope
<pleia2> oh
<knome> <<Include>> supports from/to
<knome> i'm hacking on it
<pleia2> :)
<knome> \o/
<pleia2> looks good :)
<knome> oops
<knome> except the link doesn't work
 * knome foes fixing
<knome> any way
<knome> the next issue
<knome> update the table :|
<pleia2> oh, it converted all the ? and stuff characters
<pleia2> better :)
<knome> hmm? :)
<pleia2> looks good now :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> but what about the table structure
<knome> are we happy with the columns
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> ok
<knome> i think the "releases" column is...
<knome> i mean, why do we need information if you can test, say, natty?
<knome> SRU/backport: yes/no 
<knome> LTS releases: yes/no
<knome> or even group them
<knome> pdesm
<knome> ...
<pleia2> I don't know enough about testing to say why/if that is actually useful, maybe it was so the testing lead could keep track of who contributed and when?
<knome> is that necessary, if that information is not included in the release or so?
<knome> it seems to be hard enough to add the information
<knome> so why should we ask people to update it every release
<pleia2> I have no idea
<knome> i don't see the benefit
<knome> you can see who tested an who not on the qa tracker
<knome> *and
<pleia2> yeah, I don't know enough to have an opinion here :)
<knome> i'll remove it, we can reintroduce (that will give more space for the other info, cleaning up)
<knome> done
<knome> much better
<knome> though your name is still too long!
<pleia2> lol
<knome> fixed, i think it's better that something else than the first column wraps
<pleia2> :)
<knome> ok, one more little fix in
<knome> i think it's much better now
 * pleia2 removes the word "graphics" from her gfx card info so it's prettier
<knome> hehe
<knome> now there is Xubuntu/Developemnt
<knome> -typo
<knome> and X/About
<pleia2> maybe pick up on these later?
<knome> yeah, i was thinking something like that
<pleia2> I think I'm going to run out to the pool for a bit before it gets busy
<knome> and we probably need mr_pouit to tell what's current and what's not
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> hihi, okay
<knome> have fun :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
 * knome will digest the 300g steak
<GridCube> i cant think of more now
<GridCube> http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-1204-top10faq
<knome> same here, ideas-list compiled from the head
<GridCube> the number 4 was the NÂº1 question from yesterday
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah...
<GridCube> oh, arandr
<GridCube> thats a pretty usual one
<knome> yeah, quite
<GridCube> :P 
<GridCube> --no-install-recommends, good one knome 
<GridCube> D: i don't know
<knome> pleia2, ping me when you're back (especially if you're in the mood for some more reviewing), i might be up for another session today :)
<pleia2> working on UWN summaries, if I don't end up going out for brunch when I'm done I'll let you know :)
<knome> ok, good
<knome> might be around 1h until i can do something like that, but anyway
<knome> err, about 1h more likely
<knome> look at http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-1204-top10faq if you have extra time :)
<Unit193> (I'd assume I can poke at that)
<knome> Unit193, sure. :)
<astraljava> knome: pleia2: I don't care either if the testing thing has a lead. I'm just the QA contact person, but that should do. If you have /Testing somewhere, please send it to me via email. If it's deleted already, that's fine. Now I'm falling to bed. :)
<knome> gn
<knome> :)
<Unit193> That was in the unreadable block of text? Good night.
<knome> astraljava, once you get back though, be assured that nothing was removed. it's not all in xubuntu.org, or, waiting to be moved to the QA wiki and to be linked from the QA tracker
<knome> ok, i'm ready
<knome> hey j1mc :)
<knome> j1mc, what's up?
<j1mc> heya knome 
<j1mc> congrats on xubuntu 12.04  :)
<knome> thanks!
<knome> it's a great release
<j1mc> it is.  :)  i have it on a computer that i'm using to rip cd's. i basically start it up, and then go straight to "asunder"
<j1mc> asunder is a good ripping program.
<knome> it's getting better, but i still don't like it's forcing something to the genre field
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> i am headed out. take care, knome. :) bye all.
<micahg> mr_pouit: I assume we're going with xfce 4.10 in quantal?
<knome> off to bed. see you!
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-22
<GridCube> so in theory this saturday its release date correct?
<GridCube> its there any schedule for us to follow, and by us i mean xubuntu, so i might bother some people to do iso testings etc
<maddernick> GridCube: thursday, no?
<GridCube> april 25th, its thursday correct, i read 27 and got confused, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<luke_> hello everyone
<GridCube> :) hi luke_ 
<GridCube> as i said you earlier, if you want to help, at this moment what we need the most its iso testings http://xubuntu.org/news/want-to-help-out-xubuntu-test-raring/
<luke_> alright thanks GridCude!
<luke_> appreciate your help
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> after this week everyone will have lots of free time and there will be more time for helping newcommers :)
<luke_> ok great
<luke_> what team are you from?
<GridCube> luckly we got some people interested in the last few weeks, we hope they stick around 
<GridCube> im xubuntu, user support mostly, and some testings, but not lately :( sadly
<luke_> how come?
<GridCube> my internets are not very helpful, very low rates adn my work its worse, so i cant get the isos
<GridCube> luke_, :) https://launchpad.net/~gridcube you can see my badges here 
<luke_> awesome
<micom> do you think that c++ programmer with a little experience can be helpful in the xubuntu?
<knome> welcome here as well :)
<elfy> all channels lead to the same place :p
<Noskcaj> anyone willing to hel pis helpful
<knome> they do, they do
<Noskcaj> *help is
<knome> micom, definitely! and there are other contributors here as well :)
<micom> ok lets say that i have a IDE, g++ and etc, what's in your opinion best way to get into xubuntu's development?
<ochosi> usually the best way is to start with a bug
<knome> micom, fixing bugs that scratch your own itch is a very good way to start
<Noskcaj> micom, get a basic knowledge of python first. i did it in about a day, and learn as you go
<knome> micom, xfce is written in C... :)
<micom> :(
<Noskcaj> knome, one other thing to add to our list for next cycle: make the release notes link point to xubuntu.org rather than ubuntu.com
<Noskcaj> micom, have a look on bugs.launchpad.net, see what you can fix. C and python are the main languages. also, testing or translations could be a way to help
<knome> Noskcaj, does other flavors do that either? we still share most of the release notes with ubuntu, so i'm not even sure if that's ideal
<Noskcaj> knome, have a look at bug 1065789, it happened for all of this cycle and most of q cycle
<ubottu> bug 1065789 in ubuntu-website-content "the release notes link in installer points to www.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065789
<Noskcaj> kubuntu goes to kubuntu.org/news, xubuntu an ubuntu go ubuntu.com, i forget what lubuntu does
<knome> Noskcaj, as long as they point to the general release notes, i don't consider that a huge bug
<Noskcaj> understandable
<knome> if we wanted it to point to xubuntu.org, we'd have to create our own release notes page
<knome> from that, we probably want to link to the main ubuntu notes as well, so i don't know if that's a shortcut or a detour (xubuntu-specific notes *are 
<knome> * in the general page as well)
<knome> brb
<Unit193> Not that it matters much, but as it stands now (or maybe a couple days ago?) http://unit193.ninth.su/xubuntu/quantal-to-raring.txt  this is from unbooted live CDs.
<Noskcaj> is everyone running iso tests? if not, please start.
<Noskcaj> or fixing bugs, that works too
<knome> Unit193, umph. we'll need to fix that for S
<Unit193> Well hey, may actually be more useful than I thought.
<knome> the 3.8.0 series kernels do not like my desktop :/
<knome> whenever they upload a new one, my system refuses to boot the first time, then proceeds without problems on the second time
<Unit193> .2 was very good, later hasn't worked yet.
<knome> (after a hard boot, that is)
<knome> staying with 12.10 on the laptop for some more
<Unit193> I may only be able to upgrade one or two.
<knome> i was about to upgrade my wife's
<knome> then i realized it's a precise system
<knome> so going to do the wacko LTS jump
<knome> need to upgrade mum's when we get there the next time
<knome> i'm pretty sure she's running Q
<ochosi> live on the edge and upgrade her remotely ;)
<knome> hmm...
<knome> ;)
<knome> that's not completely out of question
<Unit193> I've done several over SSH, worked pretty well.
<knome> i've done some less wanted commands over SSH too :)
<knome> resulting in questions like "where IS that server even (physically)?"
<ochosi> as long as it comes back on after reboot, it's probably fine/fixable :)
<knome> hehe
<Unit193> Or sometimes you have to wait half a week or longer to fix your goof... Been there.
<knome> yeah. probably better do the upgrade when i'm around and also AFTER RELEASE ;)
<knome> (moral right to point fingers at others!)
<mac_> cant wait for 13.04 stable
<knome> only a few days
<Unit193> He said stable, not relese.
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah.
<knome> only a few months
<mac_> knome are you a team leader?
<knome> mac_, yeah, the xubuntu team/project leader
<mac_> how would i get involved with QA?
<knome> mac_, the best way to get started is doing the ISO tests
<knome> mac_, this article: http://xubuntu.org/news/want-to-help-out-xubuntu-test-raring/ describes testing pretty well generally
<mac_> what about code testing like writing units test etc. ?
<Noskcaj> mac_, you want to get involved in QA?
<knome> mac_, the first thing with that would be to do some planning/investigating work where xubuntu can benefit from it
<mac_> ok fair enough
<knome> mac_, some of that is probably best cooperated with the xfce team, but some of it is naturally xubuntu-specific too (and it doesn't hurt to run more tests in xubuntu as well, naturally)
<knome> mac_, you might want to talk to our developers (micahg, mr_pouit, bluesabre) who could possibly point you to specific things on unit testing
<Noskcaj> mac_, Main things for QA team: ISO tests (easy), Autopilot (nothing fox xubuntu, but a version for post-install would be good) and just running a devel version of something and looking for bugs
<mac_> who is incharge of the QA team?
<knome> Noskcaj is running the calling errands at the moment
<Noskcaj> mac_, for Xubuntu, i'm trialling
<Noskcaj> mac_, come onto #ubuntu-quality. that's were the team is
<knome> well, both here and there; #ubuntu-quality is for the ubuntu wide QA cooperation
<knome> xubuntu-specific issues are best discussed here where the xubuntu people hang out
<knome> i'd imagine -quality have more pointers on automated testing
<ochosi> pleia2: have fun!
<pleia2> :)
<Noskcaj> pleia2, enjoy. 
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<knome> micahg, can you look at http://unit193.ninth.su/xubuntu/quantal-to-raring.txt someday before release if possible and see if there's some obviously unwanted packages, and get rid of them in our seed? :)
<Unit193> (Added a couple more comments, some of those are clearly needed changes.)
<knome> what's the story of zeitgeist?
<knome> is xubuntu really benefitting from it?
<mac_> looks like spyware to me
<Unit193> I don't know the database well, but what's in mine was from UbuntuOne before I purged it.
<knome> i'll add investigating that to the todo-list for S
<Unit193> Since we don't ship U1, I don't *personally* see anything using it, but I don't have all the shipped applications any more.
<knome> (unless micahg deems it unnecessary before R release and drops it)
<knome> is it not taking any resources then?
<knome> i doubt that
<knome> we should look in our seed anyway, not because of space or resources, just not to ship something utterly useless :)
<knome> (but for space and resources too)
<Unit193> I don't have it running it would appear, and now I've purged the last of it.
<knome> i seem to have it running
<knome> bluesabre, how badly catfish needs zeitgeist? what's their connection?
<skellat> I had almost forgotten this merge request: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.raring/+merge/155753
<knome> uuugh.
<knome> me too.
<skellat> Probably needs killing this late in the game
<knome> tbe, i had forgotten
<knome> i'd say let's do that and other small things in S
<knome> though meh, we changed the docs
<knome> micahg, when you look at Unit193's link, see the merge request 155753 too
<knome> i'd consider that low-mediumish
<knome> even more so because R only has 9 months of support, and we're more rolling now
<knome> we can probably let ourselves a bit easier with things like this on the interim releases in the future
<skellat> How about disapprove it now and we'll consider it in the S cycle then?
<knome> if we can get it in, it's fine
<skellat> Okay
<knome> if not, then it'll automatically be postponed
<skellat> There were supposed to be re-spins tonight.  I don't know if the crew in -release started yet, though.
<knome> this doesn't affect any image really
<knome> it's just a matter if micahg has time before the release and if it's considered something that can pass through
<knome> if not.. then let it be
<skellat> Alrighty
<knome> a bit different from "oops, we forgot to upload the new wallpaper" :P
<skellat> :-)  Been there, done that, got the IRC logs for it
<knome> that still wasn't as crazy as the "we know it's after UIF... but can we change our logo?" in 12.04 :D
<Unit193> knome: /eval.txt too now.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-23
<Unit193> gnome-user-guide and gnome-user-share also seem safe to remove, no needed rdepends (not sure about recommends.)  gnome-system-tools is needed by time-admin
<bluesabre> in fact, the packaging should match this for dependencies: http://pastebin.com/2kKbiqqt
<bluesabre> but I know the raring package doesn't
<bluesabre> I fixed it in the stable ppa
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> I'm going to work on packaging so I can actually upload packages for r+1
<knome> that's good
<micahg> knome: it's too late to be playing with the seeds for non-critical reasons
<knome> micahg, yeah, what i was thinking.
<micahg> knome: poke me in early S and we can clean things up
<knome> micahg, if some newish package changes brought us extra package though...
<knome> will do :)
<micahg> feel free to create WIs
<micahg> unless it's breaking something at this point, since we jumped to 1GB ISO, let's let it be
<knome> yep
<micahg> skellat: I'm sorry, I saw the merge proposal and was hoping to have time to dig into why, it fell off my radar
<skellat> It's all good
<bluesabre> knome, should I tag catfish (ubuntu)?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1171705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1171705 in Catfish "zietgeist shall be removed from dependencies" [Undecided,New]
<knome> bluesabre, i don't know
<bluesabre> knome, you're supposed to know everything :(
<knome> haha
<Unit193> I tried that earlier.
<knome> no, i don't know about the tagging customs in LP
<bluesabre> then I will ask micahg ^ :)
<knome> yeah, better do that
<knome> but i think it might even be up to you how you want it tagged
<knome> or the "Catfish developers"
<bluesabre> I already have it marked correctly in the PPA, so its definitely ubuntu package related
<bluesabre> People are really afraid of zeitgeist
<bluesabre> Do they realize that gtk has its own built in recent-files that gets populated, and its not per-application
<bluesabre> or should I keep that secret?
<bluesabre> >.>
<knome> heh
<Unit193> I'm personally not exactly fond of it, just another thing running in the background that doesn't offer me much.
<bluesabre> yeah, I get that aspect and agree
<Unit193> Also don't need yet another thing to track, pretty sure it does it more than GTK. :P
<bluesabre> it does, zeitgeist can log events, but I think a program has to enable it for that program to do that.  zeitgeist has an off switch, whereas if a gtk app uses recent files at all, they are stored.  You can test it out, just create an app that uses recent files menu and don't add a scope
<bluesabre> maybe I should make everyone paranoid
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> yep - carry on :)
<bluesabre> nah, I'll behave, gotta go get ready for work anyway
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> -rw-r--r-- 1 unit193 unit193 51 Jan 23 01:13 ./.local/share/recently-used.xbel > /dev/null 
<bluesabre> ^ very paranoid person
<Unit193> bluesabre: (I was actually kidding. :P )
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> gotta go, seeya
<Noskcaj> knome, When is the wiki, lp etc. going to be updated with me as head of testing? also, can you make me a release manager?
<knome> 1) pointing you to our discussion last night; let's handle that after the release
<knome> 2) too
<knome> 1) no.
<knome> i mean... why should you be the release manager?
<Noskcaj> phill said i should be a RM, i don't even know what it means. and ok, i'll wait till after release
<Noskcaj> i need to follow instructions less ;)
<knome> no... i don't think it makes sense you would be the release manger
<knome> *manager
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> which instructions should you follow less?
<Noskcaj> phill's
<knome> well, you should realize he's not affiliated with xubuntu in any way, so you have to take his comments with a grain of salt
<pleia2> it's also worth noting that we aren't particularly obsessed with titles here, in practice the project lead has tended to be the release manager, but folks in -release will listen/work with me too
<knome> (or other long-
<knome> ...term contributors)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> also, for reference for others, i had a discussion with Noskcaj yesterday on the testing team generally
<knome> since elfy is coming back and willing to help with testing too, i think it would make most sense if elfy and Noskcaj worked with testing together, elfy mentoring Noskcaj where needed
<knome> (also asked elfy if that's ok for him, and he acked)
<knome> i imagine this would be the best solution for all parties
<pleia2> teams++
<knome> i suppose that would also ultimately mean that elfy would be the (main) QA contact/lead
<knome> (being the mentor)
<Unit193> You spelled "Tormentor" wrong again.
<bluesabre> every time
<knome> but as pleia2 said, we're not obsessed with titles...
<bluesabre> -.-
<knome> but i don't want to rush to any decisions/nominations whatsoever before the election
<knome> Unit193, hah.
<Noskcaj> knome, ok
<Noskcaj> in the installer, does anyone now what "Retrieving file 40 of 102" would be retrieving? it's always a huge download
<knome> Noskcaj, have you looked what it says under "details" ?
<Noskcaj> something to do with "CRON"
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-24
<micahg> bluesabre: move from project -> distro to move to Ubuntu, also affects distro for a second task
<micahg> bluesabre: if zeitgeist isn't normally used, it should be suggests, otherwise, recommends (depends is only if it'll break without it)
<bluesabre> micahg, right.  I've added a comment about that in the comments on that bug
<Noskcaj> anyone able to help the kubuntu guys with  bug 1172059
<ubottu> bug 1172059 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "kubuntu ubiquity encryption doesn't check password" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172059
<knome> was there a specific page where the new release model was described?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence/RollingRelease would be meh for the release ntoes
<knome> *notes
<elfy> I don't think there is any definitve description of it yet - I've not seen anything definitive at all - just a whole lot of we might/could/should do this
<knome> o hai elfy :)
<elfy> hi knome :)
<Noskcaj> knome, to my knowledge they're working it out during S series, nothing confirmed yet. i do believe Lubuntu had a vote on it and were against a rolling release.
<knome> people i the team, please review http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1684&action=edit
<knome> (and if you make changes, please click "save draft", not "publish" :)
<knome> (actually you shouldn't be able to publish unless you're on the web team, so nvm)
<Noskcaj> looking now
<Noskcaj> it won't even let me access the page, oh well
<elfy> looking now 
<knome> "pepole in the team" :)
<Noskcaj> :(
<Noskcaj> i feel excluded ;)
<knome> but we should look at that after the release as well
<elfy> looks ok to me - I'd maybe change Starting from 13.04 to Starting with 13.04 but that's possibly my old and corrupted use of English 
<knome> done :P
<knome> Noskcaj, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/raring_website/releaseannouncement.png
<elfy> not sure about 'too many' the too seems superfluous 
<knome> where exactly
<elfy> Xubuntu 13.04 is mostly a maintenance release, and there aren't too many new features. However, there are some changes, which include:
<knome> oh
<knome> done
<elfy> ok - I could have done it lol 
<knome> yeah... :)
<knome> otoh i have the edit lock
<knome> which is not an edit lock
<elfy> just never sure bout my old hampshire english
<knome> :P
<elfy> ok - I couldn't have done it lol 
<elfy> :p
<knome> yup
<elfy> of course if I'd read the big red bit that said 'Pasi is ... ' ;)
<Noskcaj> one thing, you don't need a dvd or usb stick to install 13.04. the way you've worded that makes it seem like the only options
<knome> elfy, yeah, that's the so-called edit lock.. it won't actually stop you from editing it :P
<knome> Noskcaj, what are the other options then really?
<elfy> well it'll not fit on a cd ... and I'm not sure many will want to get into trying to use grub to boot it 
<knome> exactly
<knome> of course you can do the weirdest things to install it... but if you know how to do that, you don't need us telling what you can use
<knome> ...and if you don't, you shouldn't, and we shouldn't encourage it any way
<Noskcaj> knome, mini.iso, upgrade, splice, blu-ray, network install, disk image...
<knome> the only thing we *might* consider pointing out is the upgrade
<knome> we never done that before either though
<elfy> which are things most people wouldn't use 
<knome> and the minimal iso is not even really xubuntu
<knome> it's just a general way
<Noskcaj> knome, yes, but it's still "installing xubuntu"
<Noskcaj> i see your point though.
<elfy> you could install xubuntu by installing ubuntu and then installing xubuntu-desktop and then removing ubuntu 
<Noskcaj> could you change it to a "we reccomend" type thing
<Noskcaj> elfy, yes
<knome> or by copying the files individually to your HDD...
<Noskcaj> what i meant with disk image
<elfy> but mostly that page is a 'news' page so it needs to be short and snappy so people read the whole page - very important they get to the end and see the release notes imo
<knome> Noskcaj, if we say "we recommend" that clearly says "there are other ways as well", or somebody could even take it as "you could even do that with CD, but we don't tell yo how"
<elfy> knome: I think recommend would be ok, given that we say at the bottom the iso won't fit on a CD
<Noskcaj> knome, good point
<knome> well, we do say "you will need other media *such as*"
<elfy> we're in danger of over examining it :)
<knome> yes, definitely
<knome> i think the current wording is fine
<elfy> go for it :)
<Noskcaj> yeah, i agree
<knome> i just changed the wording in the intro sentence to "such as" as well
<Noskcaj> sounds good
<elfy> k
<ochosi> knome: re:release-announcement: instead of just mentioning greybird, i'd say "and our icon-theme"
<knome> ochosi, you can edit it yourself...
<elfy> just a small point here - should the settings manager have customise your desktop as it's decription once you open it? 
<elfy> given that a whole bunch of other things are in there - perhaps settings manager to match it's menu entry
<GridCube> !release
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<GridCube> well, today its release day? correct?
<elfy> 25th I thought
<GridCube> oh right
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> I could be wrong 
<skellat> Nope, 25th
<skellat> We do need to edit the factoid to reflect that non-LTS releases are only supported for 9 months starting with 13.04
<elfy> yep
<knome> the release day is always a thursday
<knome> elfy, we'll need to fix the settings manager description for S
<GridCube> i never learn the proper correlation of the day names to spanish, :P so i always mess them up
<elfy> knome: cool - might even be something I could fix lol 
<elfy> not even sure why I noticed that
<knome> !release | skellat 
<ubottu> skellat: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<knome> we should probably do a xubuntu-specific factoid out of that though
<knome> !release-#xubuntu | skellat, that good?
<ubottu> skellat, that good?: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (regular releases) to 3 years (long-term suppport (LTS) releases). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<knome> err
<knome> !release-#xubuntu
<ubottu> Xubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (regular releases) to 3 years (long-term suppport (LTS) releases). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<knome> that
<knome> bbl.
<skellat> knome: Looks good
<skellat> knome ochosi Is LP Bug #1163504 known to affect us in artwork in any way?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1163504 in kdenetwork (Ubuntu Raring) "Trademarked assets" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163504
<skellat> Alrighty, it looks like xubuntu-artwork is clean of The Forbidden Trademarked Asset...namely the Skype icon.  We're good to go on that account then.
<ochosi> skellat: yeah, i tried to avoid that. the only thing we ship is a png-converted version of the firefox and thunderbird icons in 64px
<Unit193> knome: That mean you wouldn't really want to publish the other one I drafted?
<knome> skellat, oh, ok :)
<knome> Unit193, what that? :)
<knome> Unit193, the plop article? no, i think it's fine.
<knome> Unit193, it's just that i don't think we should be too technical in our release announcement.
<Unit193> Was mainly referring to "...and if you don't, you shouldn't, and we shouldn't encourage it any way" and figured I'd ask.  Otherwise I think this close to release, it can be published (or at release, I don't care too much.)
<Unit193> knome: And yeah, I agree with that.
<knome> ah
<knome> well, i mean in the release announcement
<alpacaherder> knome: I'm out at the farm but I got this put into the queue as a placeholder regardless of how the leader election turns out: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305
 * alpacaherder disappears to go be with family
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-25
<ochosi> mr_pouit, micahg: there's a theming-problem for people who install gtk3.8 via a ppa (e.g. for gnome3), we have an unproblematic, backward-compatible fix in git for that (only a few lines long) â any chance to get that into Raring backports? (also known as bug #1163128)
<ubottu> bug 1163128 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "GTK3 application themes broken with xubuntu 13.04 themes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163128
<ochosi> (it's not that i don't see the point of saying: it's the user's fault, because he added a ppa, but since the fix is so simple...)
<ochosi> mr_pouit, micahg: this is the relevant commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/f371c7bd7a27351a6786b0eefee79074861cb9e2
<micahg> ochosi: if it's a BC compatible fix and you'd like it in raring, please follow the SRU procedure (fill out paperwork) and I'll be happy to upload it over the weekend
 * micahg is being redundantly redundant at 1am apparently, -> zzz
<micahg> ochosi: backports are for features and/or really risky bugs that fail the SRU test
<Noskcaj> can someone run the xubuntu upgrade tests? that and bug fixes are all we still have to do for release
<Unit193> How old is the testcase?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, i have no idea, probably very
<Unit193> knome: Care to do the honors for s/12.10/13.04/ in #xonotic 
<Unit193> #xubuntu rahter.
<knome> Unit193, which factoids would those be?
<Unit193> /topic
<knome> oh.
<knome> sure
<knome> done.
<gry> the homepage is ...
<knome> updated.
<gry> reloaded, seems so, ta
<GridCube> :3
<Unit193> http://xubuntu.org/help/ too.
<knome> getting to it, just editing the download page
<Unit193> Heh, alrightyo.
<knome> are lucid and oneiric EOL already, or is there some other date?
<knome> may 9, apparently
<knome> if you see more (striked) mirrors at http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ working, ping me and i'll update
<knome> atm we seem to only have three of them up
<Unit193> http://ubuntu.osuosl.org/releases/raring/ is always quick.
<knome> why isn't that on our list?
<knome> oh, it's just ubuntu
<Unit193> ...Dropped Kubuntu too a while back.
<knome> mhm
<knome> i wonder if it's time to drop the commercial support section from our help
<GridCube> i would ask them first
<knome> i've asked several people in the past, nobody knows the answer
<GridCube> then remove it
<knome> probably later
<GridCube> better not to put us in a predicament
<gry> is the question along the  "do they do commercial support for xubuntu" lines?
<knome> gry, yeah
<gry> I don't see why not if the ubuntu repos have a xubuntu-desktop package in them
<knome> well, canonical doesn't provide the support for xubuntu packages generally either
<knome> so when the xubuntu team promises 3 years of lts support, we commit to help our community with the xubuntu-specific packages for that 3 years
<GridCube> knome, :) when its the next community meeting
<knome> may 2
<GridCube> :) thanks
<pjotr> Thanks for all the good work, people! Xubuntu Raring is a beauty. You can be proud of it. :-)
<knome> thanks :)
<pjotr> Free beer for all developers: http://www.cafe-de-engelbewaarder.nl/img/bierplaatjes/GlasPALM.jpg
<knome> heh
<pjotr> Now is time for some R&R... Party time!  :-)
<knome> have fun
<lderan> is there free juice for non-beer drinking developers?
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> Coffee?  Tea?
 * genii-around makes a fresh pot and kettle
 * knome send lderan some lingonberryjuice
<Unit193> Hot chocolate?
<lderan> all acceptable :P
<skellat> Does anybody have credentials to make a post to the Google+ page so that I can echo it from the Ubuntu Ohio LoCo page?  I got Ubuntu but definitely want to ensure I catch Xubuntu.
<knome> skellat, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/
<knome> we should have a better list with email addresses or that
<skellat> I can't find the other person listed as being on Launchpad
<skellat> Which leaves pleia2 as the only one with credentials
<knome> she's away.
<knome> i suppose the other person is on G+ "only"
<skellat> Hunh.  I wonder how that works
<knome> i'd imagine there's a way to contact the team admins
<skellat> Google Plus is remarkably opaque in that regard
<knome> i believe you
<ochosi> skellat: i think you can publish a message and solely share it with the xubuntu team ther or something
<ochosi> (but i'm no expert)
<skellat> The only reason I'm using it is that I'm the Ohio Leader and have to keep charge of our LoCo page
<skellat> ochosi: Done
<knome> i hope it gets fixed
<knome> no way i'm going to let any of you contact elizabeth now.
<skellat> I wouldn't dare try
<knome> skellat, how's the voting thing going on?
 * skellat notes that the SABDFL has called the next cycle Saucy Salamander: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252
<knome> so it's not going to be "silent sabdfl"
<skellat> Silent Submariner
<knome> saucy
<knome> meh
<knome> :)
<skellat> knome: I'm still on backup status.  May 7th is the poll and a bunch of precinct election officers have already called off.  I'm able to be called up through almost the closing of the polls on the 7th so it is mostly a sit back and wait for the call-up scenario.
<knome> skellat, oh. i was talking about the voting, but good to have an update on that as well :]
<skellat> Oh, for the Xubuntu shindig you mean?
<knome> shin... what? :)
<knome> Noisy party or festivities.
<knome> okay
<knome> yeah, i suppose so... :)
<skellat> The Leader Election
<knome> yup
<knome> you okay with a quick PM?
<skellat> Sure
<knome> great
<knome> so...
<knome> what are the main arguments against public voting anyway?
<knome> because of tecnical limitations, we can't do that with meetingology either
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> what?
<skellat> Hmm
<skellat> Well, channel flooding was one plus ensuring we had a representative enough base was another
<knome> channel flooding won't be a problem most probably :)
<knome> can you elaborate a bit on the latter?
<skellat> I need a second to log back into Launchpad
<skellat> We've got 45 users in channel now, 694 claimed users in ~xubuntu-users on LP
<skellat> With proper notice, nobody can complain they weren't told the vote was coming and that if they don't show up they forfeit having a choice
<skellat> Otherwise, that's a pretty small cross-section of the membership of ~xubuntu-users
<knome> the argument against that is different timezones
<skellat> Yep
<knome> which is why i would like to have some kind of possibility to vote during 24 hours
<knome> not at all costs, though, the strategy document doesn't enforce that for a good reason
<knome> the last time we voted for a project lead, we had 13 votes
<skellat> Well, there is the LP poll facility
<knome> that's meh. :)
<knome> i wonder if all the members of -users get a mail when we do that?
<knome> if they do, that would possibly raise some random votes
<knome> "i'll just vote for any"
<knome> and since the number of voters was 13 last time, it doesn't take much to throw that off
<knome> i don't think a random vote is fair for anybody
<skellat> Nope.  LP Poll kicks out no mail at all as I learned the hard way with the "Membership Awareness" bit I ran for ~ubuntu-us-oh last week
<knome> ah
<knome> so it's as useful as nothing really.
<knome> well, it might be okay if we point people there
<knome> that would also save us from checking if people are eligible
<knome> we would only need to check against double votes
<skellat> It doesn't allow double votes
<knome> we're allowing voting on the irc meeting.
<skellat> Ah, no way to check that then
<knome> so theoretically one could vote in both
<knome> or then we only allow people to vote in the poll.
<skellat> I'd go poll only
<skellat> If you do both, you can't remove the possibility of double voting as LP won't let you track
<knome> that needs to be set 24 hours before the poll
<knome> that's fine, but we need to remember that
<skellat> Yep
<knome> meh. one shouldn't do two things at the same time
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-April/008845.html
<knome> !saucy
<ubottu> Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) will be the 19th release of Ubuntu. Announcement: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252 - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<elfy> I am sad - they promised me it was going to be silly sausage :p
<knome> somebody said there's a similarly named uhm... "toy"
<elfy> lol
<knome> yeah, well done again
<drc> wait...saucy or silly toy?
<knome> as it was put by somebody else, a toy which is sold in certain "adult" shops.
<drc> in "all" adult shpos, I've checked...not, about which name?
<drc>  /replace fingers
<knome> umm. let's not go deeper into this (no pun intended)
<drc> yes bwana :)
<maddernick> Grawling Gorilla
<maddernick> Will be my favorite
<maddernick> growling*
<bluesabre> ...
<bluesabre> did everyone just get kicked?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-26
<Unit193> Well, looks like in a couple releases, it may just be Xubuntu on GTK?  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-April/003941.html
<bluesabre> not to worry, elementary 0.3 might be released in a few years
<bluesabre> :D
<Noskcaj> i am the only one regretting not running the upgrade tests?
<gry> what are they?
<Noskcaj> gry, in the iso tracker, we were meant to test upgrading 12.10 to 13.04, no one did, and as a result it's super buggy
<Noskcaj> can someone confirm that 13.04 has 2 bluetooth icons if you upgrade?
<ochosi> think i've also seen that in clean installs before
<ochosi> blueman and some other bluetooth applet
<Noskcaj> gnome bluetooth
<Noskcaj> also, my grub and linux images didn't install properly :(
<knome> micahg, you around?
<knome> micahg, bug 1173114
<ubottu> bug 1173114 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Raring uses Quantal wallpaper by default" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173114
<skellat> unit193 knome micahg noskcaj -- Considering the GTK issue raised by unit193 last night, we should start logging issues to discuss here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305
<skellat> I already threw a couple issues on the whiteboard as is
<GridCube> can i suggest to add a topic to the saucy issues, for the consideration of HUD integration?
<knome> GridCube, you are free to add any items to the whiteboard
<GridCube> :) excellent
<GridCube> do you want me to make a wiki with rationalization about it?
<knome> not at this point
<knome> we're preparing/planning the uds session, where we'll disuss there further
<GridCube> :)
<knome> *these
<knome> after we've done that session, we should look at specifications
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> done
<elfy> knome: when you are about - should I add system setting description change against blueprint, or just create a bug?
<elfy> or of course anyone else with an opinion :)
<knome> elfy, i'd say just a bug is fine
<elfy> ok - as soon as I've got it intsalled as smug smaug I'll report it 
<elfy> evening Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> morning
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Upgrade went fine for me, only didn't install new kernels (I use liquorix on that one anyway.)  And I also had to hold a couple more packages for sane Indicator support.
<knome> mmh
<knome> the upgrades haven't been disastrous for me neither
<knome> -n
<Noskcaj> ok, then i need to try and fix some things
<Unit193> I still have proper indicators too. :D
<Unit193> knome: I find the sound one even more helpful on a desktop, that way you have an easy way to change volume.
<knome> i don't use indicators at all on the desktop
<knome> i have an small external box for changing the volume though
<knome> meh, we didn't update our countdown banners
 * knome doesn't care tonight
<knome> time to do non-FOSS things
<Noskcaj> my issues: upubuntu hasn't got it's PPAs working, i had 2 bluetooth indicators to start with, then i deleted the network manager. i'm missing:  grub-pc, linux-image-extra-3.8.0-19-generic, linux-image-generic, linux-generic, initramfs-tools
<knome> there's no promises about PPA's anyway
<Noskcaj> What's everyones opinion on how many alpha/beta/candence releases we run?
<elfy> it's entirely possible that everyone's opinion is glad that's over for 6 months and are taking a well earned rest
<elfy> however - as I took a 6 month break ... 
<knome> Noskcaj, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305
<elfy> I don't think that alpha's help much - better to call for testing as and when they are wanted
<Noskcaj> knome, that's what i was working off, didn't know where to put comments.
<Noskcaj> if i took a break i'd just spend more time modding my PC, so i'm staying here. 
<Unit193> Good to know generally if the CDs work, and then targetted applications that are ours, like gmusicbrowser, catfish, themes, etc.
<Noskcaj> i think we should have one alpha, just to try and set an actually target half way through the series
<elfy> Unit193: which shouldn't need an alpha/beta or anything - just people testing regularly
<Noskcaj> and get a bigger focus on the upgrade tests since we missed them entirely
<Noskcaj> elfy, exactly, although oversized images are a different matter
<elfy> it's certainly easy enough for me to make people aware that are regular testers on the forum 
<elfy> Noskcaj: not following that
<Noskcaj> elfy, although not really a testing thing, many flavours released oversized or only fixed it in the last few days
<elfy> is it not only lubuntu now that fits on a cd?
<Unit193> knome: Would it help if I did what I did about a week ago, only much earlier?  :P
<elfy> the size shouldn't matter if it's going to need a dvd or usb
<knome> Unit193, yeah.
<Unit193> (I did it for my own purposes, but if it actually helps I should be doing it earlier.)
 * elfy is curious
<knome> elfy, looking at the seeds
<elfy> ok
<Unit193> elfy: Nothing much, just doing a diff on what's actually installed on the CD so I can update my script for a respin.
<Noskcaj> elfy, lubuntu, netboot and server fit on cd
<Noskcaj> although server PPC didn't for 13.04
<knome> this is the xubuntu development channel
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> so afaik - we don't need to even think about oversize
<knome> yep
<knome> mrrr, why isn't my translation working
<elfy> tired and irritable?
<Unit193> knome: Ah, that reminds me, mind publishing plop?
<knome> Unit193, should do that soon
<knome> yay, poedit in raring shows context
<Unit193> Danke.
 * knome puts on the new von hertzen brothers album and starts fighting the translation
<knome> elfy, ^ you might like that, progish rock
<elfy> looks
<elfy> sounds ok - or at least the one on their website does 
<knome> :)
<elfy> lol
<knome> lolwut?
<elfy> that shows how much I know about wireless and *buntu
<knome> gaaah
<elfy> how long has it remembered wireless passwords from live to install for :p
<knome> do you know any more about gettext? :P
<elfy> probably not :p
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm baffled.
<elfy> so was I
<Unit193> That's alright, the auto(re-)connect feature is broken for me, you too?
<elfy> I'd not have the first idea 
<elfy> night 
<skellat> Noskcaj: If you have comments on the blueprint, edit the whiteboard.  Follow the pattern and add discussion questions perhaps or maybe a view of alternatives from the testing perspective.
 * skellat disappears since he cannot walk and type on his netbook around Cleveland Clinic's main campus
<micahg> knome: not feeling so great, won't be able to look at it until tomorrow night
<knome> micahg, that's fine. get well soon :)
<Noskcaj> If we do follow up on the idea of a "HUD" for xubuntu, we should try and get Studio and Lubuntu involved as it would help all of the projects
<Unit193> That'd be a long way off anyway, but Lubuntu is lightweight and wouldn't (or shouldn't) be interested.
<Unit193> Something to note about it, since Unity is going the way of Qt, wouldn't this?
<Noskcaj> 1. Lubuntu being involved would require it to be really light. 2. I assume so
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-27
<knome> Inoki, did you read the mailing list lately?
<Inoki> knome: Nope, was busy with other things, why?
<knome> we got the articles back from the editor, and we need 800 chars more for your article
<knome> if you have time and ideas to extend it before monday, that would be cool
<knome> if not, i will extend it
<Inoki> 800 more. Wasn't aware it should be that long.
<Inoki> Thing is, what's written there is basically my story, how it was.
<Inoki> How I came to use Xubuntu (Xfce in general).
<knome> yeah, i was wondering to write about desktop enviroments generally or so
<knome> it doesn't need to be a part of the story
<knome> otoh, 800 chars isn't too much, so if you don't know what to wirte, i can take care of that
<Inoki> I suppose the only thing to add would be details of "why Xubuntu", like navigating through the desktop, its functions.
<knome> we have an article about that though
<Inoki> Yea, thought about that.
<Inoki> Feel free to modify it then. Add a few extra lines.
<knome> sure, thanks :)
<knome> and thanks for writing the article
<Inoki> np np :)
<knome> we will be in touch with all of you later as well about the small compensation...
<knome> we will need to sort how to organize that out with the editor first
<Inoki> As for me, using Xubuntu is enough of a compensation. I didn't do it to get something in return. :)
<knome> well, if you don't want it in money, you can always order a xubuntu t-shirt from a new vendor to test it
<knome> (we've been doing that for a few cycles to find a vendor with doable shipping prices around the world as well as good quality)
<Inoki> That sounds nice, a shirt with the Xfce mouse on it :D
<Inoki> Either way, was glad to help if that little contribution helped.
<knome> definitely
<Noskcaj> compensation? dibs!
<Inoki> Ok so if nobody else wanted something, I'm gonna go now. knome you'll find me here if needed: http://tinyw.in/7y99
<knome> Inoki, ok, cheers
<knome> daim2k5, umm, please don't use awaynicks
<daim2k5> knome: sorry
<knome> np
<knome> bbl
<elfy> trying to run ubuntu-bug against xfce4-settings-manager in ss and it tells me there's no such package - is that just because ss is not really up yet ?
<smartboyhw> elfy, that's xfce4-settings I think https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings
<elfy> possibly - except the bug is in xfce4-settings-manager 
<smartboyhw> elfy, according to the descriptions: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608412/
<elfy> meh
<GridCube> there should be a way to graphically edit fstab 
<GridCube> and by default in the system
<elfy> possibly
<elfy> though I'd be worried about using it ... elfy remembers other gui things attempting to help with fstab 
<drc> Are you sure you want a easy-to-use-by-everyone tool to mess with fstab?
<GridCube> its really anoying that partition end up in the desktop
<elfy> what?
<GridCube> if you dont edit fstab to automount partition to a mount point, they end up in the desktop, i like that for removable devices, but for internal drives?
<elfy> oic
<Unit193> Was more annoying when they put floppy drive there, blacklisted the module so it'd go away.
<GridCube> a tool that goes like "oh! it seems like you have this /dev/drive, and its internal (no usb), do you want to permanently mount it? (ask where to mount and edits fstab)"
<elfy> there used to be one 
<elfy> it often got it wrong from memory
<elfy> what's with the sudden interest in hud 
<GridCube> i want it XD
<elfy> install ubuntu ... 
<elfy> :P
<GridCube> lol
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> thats not good
<GridCube> i dont see why the reluctance tho
<elfy> from me? 
<GridCube> even from me, that i dont like changes, i find HUD to be awesome
<GridCube> no, generally speaking
<GridCube> many people told me that. "install ubuntu"
<GridCube> and my answer its... why? why should i want unity if what its good its HUD?
<elfy> and is hud anygood without ?
<GridCube> it can be
<elfy> what use is it - replaces one way of accessing options with another 
<elfy> and then forces people to change the way they do things with a key already ;)
<elfy> so - everyone else has to learn a new thing to accomodate something they didn't really want :)
<GridCube> it gives you more ways to control your computer, it saves time, it helps users with accesibility issues, its fancier, its would help to create a more consistent image between the ubuntu family
 * elfy has beer in one hand - devil's advocate hat in other and types with his nose ... 
<GridCube> what i think would be important its that if hud its choosen for xubuntu there should be an option in setting to disable it for those reluctants to use it
<GridCube> but i think that it wont be the mayor case
<GridCube> also xubuntu hasnt introduced nothing new in ages
<GridCube> its stable, yes, but thats it
<elfy> can't see any need for it tbh - but then I installed xubuntu (which turned out to be a good thing) to get away from things designed for everyone to use by people that sit in an office with nothing better to do than design things and hope it works out 
<elfy> I don't see what it gains us 
<Unit193> Indeed, as long as it doesn't bring in heavy depends I'm not to worried, shouldn't be hard to purge from my system(s).  It gains something "New" and "Oh look!  Shiny!" :----D
<Unit193> I'd think that people using Xfce would be more for the classic desktop, but maybe not.
 * elfy hopes GridCube noticed that I had on my devil's advocate hat 
 * GridCube notes 
<GridCube> P: im libraring
<elfy> I'm chilling out 
<GridCube> elfy, what i think it gains us its innovation, using the resources that canonical/mainbuntu are already expending, provide us with a modern way to access a system, provides easier ways to access options, find obfuscated options faster
<GridCube> it would make us different from any other xfce based distribution
<elfy> which gains us what? 
<GridCube> users
<elfy> a bunch of trolling
<GridCube> theres no such thing as bad publicity
<elfy> a bunch of 'oh .... now where do we go' 
<elfy> I agree :)
<GridCube> not if there is a "enable []" box
<GridCube> something that unity doesnt provide
<GridCube> we should ofcourse
<elfy> that would be an absolute positive over the 'ubuntu' way 
<GridCube> indeed
<Unit193> That could always leave us with a bait and switch type of thing like the indicators had, though.
<elfy> the biggest issue is whether there are the people willing and able to do it 
<GridCube> oh sure, thats its the biggest problem :(
<GridCube> im sad i cant do it myself
<GridCube> if noone can take it then it will just die
<GridCube> but i really think its a silly thing that would make us more brilliant in the xfce based distros
<GridCube> something that no other can provide
<elfy> well ... time tells I guess 
<GridCube> :/ yep
<GridCube> i will still bother till someone tells me "dude, no"
<GridCube> and that would be it
<elfy> I wish I could do stuff - there's a really simple bug with settings manager and I'm sure it's really simple to fix but I have no idea or I'd crack on with it :(
<lderan> which bug is that?
<elfy> description :)
<elfy> open settings manager - check the description - customise your desktop - not anymore, it's a whole lot more than that 
<elfy> simple thing 
<lderan> ah yeah
<lderan> i need to find an easy bug to fix so i can get used to things
<elfy> lderan: let me report it against smug smaug then and go for it :)
<elfy> I'm sure I could find some other little issues 
<lderan> cool
<elfy> will be tomorrow at the earliest though - not sure what the description should be now 
<elfy> something to decide in here I suspect :)
<lderan> aye :)
<lderan> knome, is there anything i can do to help at the moment or shall i see if i can fix any bugs?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-28
<maddernick> I do not understand why dates, login hints etc are in my keyboard setup language, and not in English as I chose
<maddernick> Someone should look into this
<maddernick> Its probably not an uncommon scenario for people. Esp. people who travel a lot
<knome> maddernick, what does "locale" say?
<knome> Noskcaj, elfy asked me to remove reference when he went away in the beginning of the R cycle
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> also, can i be added to either of the LP teams. i'm only in xubuntu-users
<knome> once you've shown persistent contributions
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> sorry to be spamming you with stuff, when does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap get put up to saucy?
<knome> i'll do that in a moment
<knome> but let's still work on the blueprint before the XPL election
<Noskcaj> there's a blueprint for that?
 * Noskcaj thinks he needs a different timezone
<knome> yes, that: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305
<Noskcaj> just to confirm, when is the election? i might have another reason not to go on a holiday
<knome> may 1-2
<Noskcaj> since i have to be online at roughly that time, i have stuff to do
<knome> we will allow a timespan of 24 hours to vote, so no problem
<Noskcaj> i should be online anks for the infoto vote, but not much more. th
<Noskcaj> i clicked something, that's weird
<Noskcaj> i should be online for the vote, but not much more
<carrera> Greetings God!  :)
<carrera> I finally managed to join
<Noskcaj> :)
<carrera> it only took me 3 tries!
<knome> heh :)
<carrera> #xubuntu-dev, #xubuntu-devl and finally #xubuntu-devel
<knome> Noskcaj, that's fine
<carrera> what's fine?
<Noskcaj> carrera, stuff to do with the project lead election
<carrera> how do I read the logs?
<Noskcaj> irclogs.ubuntu.com but they take some time to update
<knome> carrera, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/04/28/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<knome> but yes, they do take some time to update
<carrera> thanks guys
<knome> i was simply saying it's ok for Noskcaj to be around only to vote :)
<Noskcaj> knome, are you and i the only two people running?
<knome> Noskcaj, at the moment, yes
<knome> Noskcaj, let me re-check, but i think there is still one day to nominate...
<Noskcaj> if i get more than just my vote, i'll be shocked :)
<knome> if i get my own vote, i'll be shocked!
<Noskcaj> knome, there's only a 99.9999999999% chance you'll win
<carrera> why do I always have to right-click on a link and then click on Open Link in Browser in XChat?
<carrera> why can't we just left-click on a link to open it in a browser?
<knome> Noskcaj, nothing is certain :)
<Noskcaj> carrera, who knows, Xchat's weird like that
<Noskcaj> knome, :) i can hope
<knome> Noskcaj, and yes, there's still one day for nominations (4 weeks are specified for nominations)
<carrera> do must people still use XChat?
<Noskcaj> carrera, i do, i think most do
<carrera> err, most
<carrera> thanks Mr. Noskcaj 
<carrera> Mr. knome, I like " if i get my own vote, i'll be shocked!"
<carrera> :)
<carrera> you're very humble and funny
<elfy> lderan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1173767 :p
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1173767 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Settings Manager description " [Undecided,New]
<lderan> thanks :D elfy 
<lderan> elfy, well i've found the place it pulls in the string from for the description -> http://lderan.co.uk/settings-manager.png
<elfy> oh cool
<elfy> where was it - just for my curiosity - I looked but failed
 * elfy suspects he should have got the source for xfce4-settings instead of -manager
<lderan> xfce4-settings/xfce4-settings-manager/xfce-settings-manager-dialog.c on line 368 also for the translations it in xfce4-settings/po/en_GB.po
<elfy> thanks - I'll get those and look 
<elfy> got it :)
<lderan> woo
<elfy> no idea what I'd do with it though lol 
<lderan> something to be agreed upon, also all those translations 
<elfy> yep - maybe something like Customisation and System 
<elfy> depending on how wide to cast the net in here at a meeting or via the dev mailing list
<elfy> but thanks for looking at the bug 
<lderan> ah no problem at all
<knome> micahg, did you get to look at that wallpaper bug already?
<micahg> no, soon, still not feeling well
<knome> oki, np :)
<knome> i'm not stressing about most FOSS stuff at all
<micahg> knome: but it will only help for new installs AIUI
<knome> micahg, yeah, sure, but it's still wanted :)
<knome> in fact, i'm probably taking a week off after the election
<knome> i should look at our magazine articles
<knome> a few still need tweaking
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-21
<bluesabre> knome: got some fixes for you to verify :)
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7295830/
<bluesabre> waiting for the packages to publish https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/daily
<knome> mhm
<knome> nice
<knome> what kind of markup is that?
<bluesabre> dunno, I think thats modeled after PHP or mysql's NEWS file
 * bluesabre likes to mix it up
<knome> aha :P
<bluesabre> aaaaand they're published
<knome> yep, can confirm all bugs i've reported are fixed
<knome> you still have a few to go though ;)
<bluesabre> yeah, good to know they're golden now
<knome> especially like the "remember collapsed/expanded" state fix
<bluesabre> Logan_, things have been quiet recently, would you be interested in doing a merge?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/parole/gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio/+merge/216565
<bluesabre> knome: you can also approve the above if you'd like.  :-)
<Logan_> what's the deal with the archive right now? I've been kinda busy
<knome> bluesabre, we need an SRU bug afaik
<bluesabre> ah
 * bluesabre goes to learn
<knome> bluesabre, here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<bluesabre> is the archive currently locked, or has it reopened?
<knome> bluesabre, ask -release
<bluesabre> ok
<Logan_> "Archive: Limbo"
<bluesabre> ok, that makes bug fixes less fun, will work on that now
<bluesabre> knome: look good? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7296223/
<knome> "...so this can future users as well." ????
<knome> yeah, looks good
<bluesabre> yeah, added "help" in there
<knome> i would think it's a no-brainer really
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> we're going to have fun with filing all of those SRU bugs
<knome> and the SRU team is going to love us
<knome> and by 2017, it has escalated to the ultimate world peace
<knome> and cars run on fart
<knome> right, i'm off to bed
<knome> have fun and see you later
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> night knome
<bluesabre> knome: if you'd like to follow up with this, that would be *awesome* ;) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728626
<ubottu> Gnome bug 728626 in libgnome-menu "preprocess_layout_info: assertion failed: (!directory->preprocessed) with Alacarte and MenuLibre" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<starrats> Just let you know,after a week of no problems at start-up my cursor froze again this morning.  
<ochosi> hey brainwash 
<brainwash> good morning ochosi 
<ochosi> we have a new patch to try for testing, in case you have some time: https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfce4-power-manager/tree/lid-lock
<ochosi> (ran into some troubles when i tried last night, but that could also be because i was dead-tired and didn't look closely what i was doing)
<brainwash> I know
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<brainwash> not sure if elfy already tested it
<ochosi> are you watching that repo? :)
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> I got informed :P
<ochosi> or did eric ping you about it
<ochosi> ah good
<brainwash> the guy over at #xubuntu already tested it
<brainwash> but he has some general lid close problem
<brainwash> even when closing the lid while the greeter screen is active
<ochosi> right
<brainwash> no light-locker or xfpm involved :/
<brainwash> and I don't understand how the new patch resolves the issue
<ochosi> frankly with all the places in which xfpm interacts with lid, suspend and lock i'm not sure i have any idea how a patch could reasonably work
<elfy> elfy didn't test anything 
<bluesabre> so much backlash over light-locker
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> that's how it is if you switch default software
<ochosi> always lots of moaning and shouting going along
<bluesabre> yeah
<elfy> morning bluesabre ochosi 
<bluesabre> Logan_: "<infinity> bluesabre: Get someone to upload it, much easier to review in the queue."
<ochosi> just imagine if we decided to ship libreoffice
<bluesabre> could you upload it it trusty-proposed?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/parole/gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio/+merge/216565
<bluesabre> otherwise I'll go bug dholbach :)
<elfy> ochosi: the sky would fall in I suspect :)
<bluesabre> maybe... except I think there may be 0.00000001% of our users that like abiword
<elfy> but THEY will be the loud ones :p
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> doesn't really matter what we do - someone will not like it 
<ochosi> thing is, ppl will get upset about the image-size exploding
<ochosi> and those that don't want/need an office-suit will shout about that surely
<elfy> there is that
<ochosi> that's the compromise in shipping abiword imo
<bluesabre> indeed
<elfy> personally I'm happy to just install the bits of libreoffice I actually use and not the whole thing and to do so when I want to 
<elfy> bluesabre: in a perfect world we not need to do it at all :D
<bluesabre> :)
 * elfy has thunar not perm deleting with shift+delete atm
<bluesabre> fun
<elfy> awesome - I has an income tax refund of Â£660
<bluesabre> congrats
<bluesabre> we had a refund this year of $6
<elfy> considering I don't earn enough to pay any in the first place - I'll delete that e-mail then :p
<bluesabre> oh lol
<bluesabre> gotta run, be back way later
<elfy> have a good one :)
<knome> ochosi, oh btw, did you see the new alignment stuff already?
<olbi> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY2OTI, why there wasn't any ppl from Xfce Team? :-(
<damiank> hi
<damiank> one question
<damiank> i saw somewhere that reducing swappiness from default 60 to 10 the disk would be read less and i would have more speed
<damiank> is that true?
<damiank> because i tried it and i dont see any changes really
<damiank> actually, the pc seems slower...
<elfy> you know this isn't a support channel :)
<damiank> sorry elfy...
<elfy> #xubuntu is the support channel :)
<damiank> i'll ask there
<damiank> i installed 14.04b2 with no issues
<damiank> so good work you all!
<elfy> thanks on behalf of us :)
<damiank> :)
<damiank> i was a bit out due to having a new job, but anyway i wanted to let you know its working great here on my 2 pcs
<elfy> nice 
<damiank> yeah
<damiank> i didnt upgrade, i just formatted and did full install
<damiank> i think its better
<elfy> did both here - a lot of times 
<Logan_> bluesabre: where did he say that?
<amigamagic> is there some gtk expert here?
<amigamagic> basically, in the tasklist plugin on the xfce panel, I would like to move the position of the icon labels... In the source code I'm able to change the text, but I'm not able to move it (for example to make it more close to the icon itself).
<Logan_> amigamagic: irc://irc.gnome.org/#gtk+
<amigamagic> Logan_, thanks
<amigamagic> hey guys, I'm modding the tasklist plugin to make some visual feedback of grouped icons when you use the "always" option to group them.
<amigamagic> So far this is what I achieved: http://oi60.tinypic.com/2jaf9yw.jpg
<jhenke> hi everybody
<amigamagic> hi
<elfy> evening both
<amigamagic> Some opinions on my example screenshot of the grouped icons visual feedback?
<GridCube> amigamagic, it looks interesting, but i think i would like the numbers to be in the exact oposite position, up to the top left if you have your desktop set up in an occidental language and up to the top right if you have an oriental language, because thats the order you read
<amigamagic> GridCube, I think it should not be too difficult to place that number in another position. I placed it there because usually the labels are placed to the right of the icons.
<GridCube> true, im just saying what i would like personally
<amigamagic> ok, thanks for your feedback :)
<starrats> think I'm going to have to file a bug report concerning the 'frozen cursor' I'm having again, after a week of non-reezing of it.
<starrats> tried to report a bug on term with ubuntu-bug and get sent to a page/link that I don't understand what you folks want me or others to do!
<amigamagic> starrats, maybe you should try on the main xubuntu channel for generic support or bug reporting
<starrats> thanks didn't know it jumped frfom 13.10 to 14.04
<knome> amigamagic, if you want relevant feedback on your patch, you could try asking the people who actually use grouping to begin with in -devel and/or -users lists
<amigamagic> knome, what those -devel / -users list are?
<knome> !xubuntu-devel
<ubottu> The Xubuntu developer mailing list information can be found at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel | The Xubuntu developer IRC channel is #xubuntu-devel
<knome> and the same url but replace -devel with -users
<amigamagic> ah, so you mean mailing-list... I haven't used them from much time... Maybe I should give it a try...
<elfy> amigamagic: it's going to be more useful that asking in here now and again
<amigamagic> ok elfy and knome... btw, do you use grouping?
<elfy> nope - don't use the plugin either ;)
<knome> i don't, which is why i said youd get more elevant information on the lists
<amigamagic> ok, thanks for the info
<pleia2> knome: there is a bit too much white space on the right hand side of the page for US Letter versions, makes folding off
<knome> pleia2, i noticed the same thing.
<knome> pleia2, there shouldn't.
<pleia2> yeah, the image doesn't show it
<knome> did you make sure the zoom is 100%?
<pleia2> yeah, it looks good on the screen
<knome> i mean, the pdf might be resized to fit the page
<pleia2> it's 100%
<knome> well i don't know.
<knome> it should be good.
<knome> i'll look again later today
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> also, my printer works :D
<knome> cool
<knome> will you be around later then?
<pleia2> working, but generally should be
<knome> oki
<Unit193> knome: Once you get http://paste.ubuntu.com/7294292/ type bt
<amigamagic> knome, can I send the mail to more than one mailing list at once? (-users and -devel lists)
<amigamagic> and if I can... You suggest me to do so?
<knome> amigamagic, you can, but i'd probably do two different mails.
<amigamagic> ok, thanks
<damiank> elfy are you here?
<elfy> yea
<damiank> it seems updating fixed the problem
<damiank> regarding memory
<damiank> so i had an old beta :)
<elfy> k
<damiank> sorry for asking before updating ;)
<elfy> s'ok :)
<damiank> i've been using it for about 1hr and swap never goes more than 5%
<damiank> before i had 40%
<damiank> the beta i had was downloaded one week ago, so you're fast fixing stuff ;)
<damiank> i mean the devs
<elfy> :)
<damiank> i opened a lot of stuff to test, and it works great
<elfy> I'm glad you like it 
<damiank> yeah, i always liked xubuntu, but its getting better with each release
<damiank> i was afraid of updating from 12.04 but i think its worth it
<damiank> the new release works great
<damiank> now
<elfy> I've only used it constantly for a few years myself - would agree it gets better release by release :)
<damiank> so do you have experience with android and xubuntu? id like to know if its possible to use my galaxy with it? should i ask in the other channel?
<elfy> no idea at all 
<damiank> ok
<damiank> no worries
<damiank> i'm searching google...
<damiank> i have to go now i'll be back later
<ochosi> knome: alignment stuff on x.org?
<ochosi> or where
<elfy> ochosi: possibly http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/2014/04/18/image-alignment-testing-post/
<ochosi> yup, knome pinged me about it elsewhere with the link
<ochosi> thanks though
<ochosi> amigamagic: you're the one who sent an email to the dev mailinglist about the tasklist plugin today, right?
<amigamagic> ochosi, yes
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-22
<bluesabre> Logan_: #ubuntu-release...
<bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: Get someone to upload it, much easier to review in the queue.
<bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: (but looks fine to me)
<Logan_> why didn't I know that was a channel? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ..Wait, you didn't? 0_o
<Logan_> bluesabre, Unit193: I apparently was there before during the Raring cycle
<Logan_> because it came up as scrollback when I joined
<Logan_> [17:41:05]  * Topic for #ubuntu-release is: Ubuntu 12.10 released | Archive: Open | Raring Ringtail Release Coordination.  Please don't upload things during freezes where you shouldn't, or be prepared to apologise to the release team | we accept payment in cash, check or beer | melior malum quod cognoscis
<Logan_> well, now I'm there again, so all is good in the world
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> amigamagic: so some quick feedback on your patch
<ochosi> i think that it generally makes sense to distinguish between the grouped and ungrouped windows visually
<ochosi> the idea with the label isn't too bad, how does it affect the width of the window-button?
<ochosi> if you set up e.g. a vertical panel, does the icon get downscaled?
<ochosi> from my POV the ideal solution would be to have a sort of "badge" on top of the icon, like emblems in thunar
<ochosi> with a background color to make sure the label is always readable
<amigamagic> ochosi, yes, I could set a background color for the number
<amigamagic> for now I'm using the default color used for the labels
<amigamagic> so I think it should be always visible, if the theme is not messed up
<ochosi> yeah, but i was actually wondering if the label can't be stacked on top of the appicon
<amigamagic> I just tried the vertical "deskbar" panel
<elfy> ochosi: that would look better imo
<amigamagic> the icons are scaled to accomodate the number :)
<amigamagic> ochosi, I've tried the thunar emblems feature (I didn't know it) and the emblems are placed first at the bottom right of the icon
<amigamagic> btw, emblems implementation is a little buggy, isn't it?
<amigamagic> when I place an emblem on a file of the desktop, I will not see emblems on them. If I place an emblem inside Thunar, it will work.
<amigamagic> And if I place an emblem in the desktop folder, inside a Thunar window, then you will see the emblem on the desktop too.
<amigamagic> mmmh... it looks like on the desktop it's a bit random if you will see the emblems or not... Sometimes they will be displayed after 1 minute from your last mod!
<amigamagic> anyway, back to my grouped number mod, me too I think that a "badge" on the icon of the taskbar would be nicer. For now I'm solving some alignment problems when you change size options for the panel. When I'm done with this mod I could try to make a "badged" version.
<ochosi> amigamagic: sounds good to me
<amigamagic> do you think I should make an option to let the user choice if display the little number when you select "always" in grouping option, or it should be the "only" behaviour when you select "always"?
<amigamagic> ochosi, elfy ^^
<amigamagic> personally, I think that you should always see a visual feedback when there is more than one app stacked in one group in the taskbar, but maybe someone is happy with the current behaviour (no visual feedback for the stacked icons)?
<ochosi> i think that option might be over the top
<ochosi> but if you add one, i'd just add a separate checkbox for it
<ochosi> that is only sensitive when grouping is chosen
<amigamagic> ok... I don't know if it's worth the effort :D
<ochosi> yeah, me neither
<ochosi> i'd not start with making it optional
<ochosi> *if* ppl complain, that can always be considered
<bluesabre> ochosi: any feedback on the taskbar plugin?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've been testing it since yesterday
<ochosi> it works ok actually
<ochosi> but it's a bit buggy
<ochosi> so it'd need a fixup
<ochosi> (and a release)
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> the default theming isn't ideal
<ochosi> that'd have to be improved
<ochosi> and the bug i showed you (for parole) is illustrative of a general issue in the plugin
<bluesabre> have you found the developer?
<ochosi> but you can do a pretty perfect unity-like setup with the taskbar plugin
<ochosi> which is nice
<ochosi> haven't gotten in touch yet, wanna write down the issues first and create a roadmap or something
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> but if i don't find time for that soon, i'll just try to get a hold of him as it is
<ochosi> last commit is already a year ago, so who knows
<bluesabre> cool, keep me posted
<bluesabre> I tested it a while back and stopped using it because it was buggy
<ochosi> willd do
<ochosi> yeah, you can easily install it from the packages Unit193 made
<ochosi> btw, we really need to set up a common xubuntu testing PPA
<ochosi> where more ppl have access, so that testing packages aren't so scattered anymore
<ochosi> not only elfy will appreciate that
 * elfy would certainly appreciate that :)
<elfy> ochosi: I'm fiddling with wiki pages - shall I add it to the thursdat meeting
<ochosi> yeah, pls do
<bluesabre> sounds good, I'll help set something up
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<elfy> ochosi: ok - done that
<amigamagic> ochosi, are you testing another taskbar plugin? Maybe it's that with the pinning feature?
<ochosi> amigamagic: yes, that's the one i'm testing
<amigamagic> I tried it and it was a little buggy
<ochosi> if you wanna help, you can write down the bugs you found and pastebin them
<ochosi> or we can put them on a wiki page somewhere
<amigamagic> ok, it would be nice to have icons pinnable and with the visual feedback of grouped icons... Then it could definitely replace the default one. :)
<ochosi> yeah, or it could just be an additional plugin
<ochosi> for now the latter seems easier
<amigamagic> I'm finishing my mod, then I have to upload the patch somewhere so that you can try it
<ochosi> ideally create a bugreport on bugs.xfce.org and attach the patch there
<amigamagic> ok, I will do it, then I let you know
<elfy> seem to have lost indicator-messages again
<knome> christoffer, hmpf, we should take it here or -offtopic ;)
<christoffer> knome, ok
<knome> christoffer, ooh, exciting
<knome> what have they hired you for?
<elfy> knome: if we've got meeting on Thursday - which I thought we did can you add it to the calendar
<amigamagic> hey guys, can you tell me if, in the current implementation, the icon of a grouped icon is "smaller" than the other ones? (try to set an height >= 40 pixel for the panel)
<elfy> yes it is
<amigamagic> ok, so this is another bug I fixed
<amigamagic> thank you elfy
<elfy> then that really needs to be seperate imo - what happens if nothing gets done with the number in the grouping thing?
<amigamagic> wait, I'm verifying...
<elfy> pretty sure there was a bug for that - unless it was you talking about it in here previously
<amigamagic> oh, elfy, in my current implementation you can't choose if you want the number or not
<amigamagic> if you select ALWAYS in the group option, then you will see the little number
<elfy> I'm talking about icon size 
<elfy> personally neither affect me as I don't use the plugin at all - but *someone* was talking about icon size in the plugin recently
<elfy> the only one I've ever heard trying to make it work like windows is you :p
<amigamagic> in my mod, the icons are big when you select ALWAYS in the group option
<amigamagic> I mean they have the same size as the "not grouped" one
<elfy> the icons in window buttons plugin are smaller without your mod
<amigamagic> but if you select "show labels", then they will be small, as in the current implementation
<amigamagic> yes, elfy, without my mod they are smaller when are grouped
<amigamagic> and I don't like that...
<elfy> they are smaller when ungrouped as well
<amigamagic> elfy, have you selected "always" option?
<amigamagic> and "no labels" ?
<elfy> I've not selected anything - I don't use it :)
<amigamagic> so, being that you don't use it, you are "remembering" how it works? :)
<elfy> though that might be as intended behaviour
<elfy> amigamagic: I can remember a few minutes ago 
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/306975
<elfy> smaller - and I'm not adding it to the panel again lol 
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9619
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9619 in Window Buttons "Window buttons scales appicons when hiding labels" [Minor,New]
<amigamagic> I'm surprised that from 2012-12 noone has fixed that...
<amigamagic> my mod fix it as a collateral consequence :D
<amigamagic> I think I have solved the little things in my mod... Now I have to clean a little the code and I will make a patch
<amigamagic> so you can try it (if you want) :)
 * amigamagic has connection problems. Stupid wifi router!
<amigamagic> I noticed that the taskbar plugin lacks the feature to restore all the minimized windows... There is a "maximize" contextual menu, but to me it works only for windows already restored. If they are minimized, they will keep to be minimized.
<amigamagic> I'm always talking of grouped windows, of course
<amigamagic> To me it seems that the original developer didn't give much importance to the grouped icons feature, so he keep that in a sort of incomplete status.
<elfy> seems to me that the whole thing is a non-issue tbh - but then I don't ever use it :)
<amigamagic> elfy, if you don't use some feature, it doesn't mean no one will use it :)
<amigamagic> and it doesn't mean it's not broken...
<elfy> well I guess that lots of people do use it - but the absence of any bugs for it not telling them how many things are grouped says something too 
<elfy> but anyway - I wouldn't want you to think I don't think you're doing something worthwhile :)
<amigamagic> elfy, to me that means that a very few people use the grouped feature in xfce. But I understand that noone would use it as it is now... :)
<elfy> I used it for a while - as grouped - but knowing how many I had grouped was of no interest to me - as I had to click it to open one of the grouped things, and as soon as I did that I could see how many there were :)
<elfy> not really sure how useful a number is :)
<amigamagic> and maybe xfce users are more technical guys, or they are less spoiled guys than me...
<elfy> but - I am not going to talk about it - stop leading me on :D
<amigamagic> :D
<amigamagic> maybe I should not make this patch anymore... :D
<elfy> ha ha - you carry one - ochosi thinks it's worth your time :)
<knome> elfy, done
<amigamagic> sorry guys, what's the default panel size? 30 ?
<nhoj> 24
<amigamagic> thanx
<nhoj> jumps to 34 if you touch the slider
<amigamagic> wow, are you sure it's 24: that's pretty small to my eyes
<amigamagic> ?
<nhoj> I could be wrong -- seems small to me but then I increased the font size
<ochosi> amigamagic: yes, it is 24
<ochosi> the top panel height is pretty much the same in unity, osx and xubuntu
<ochosi> obviously with window-grouping and hiding labels, the window buttons would become too small to be usable, so the panel size would have to be increased
<amigamagic> at 24 pixel the number is high as the small icon itself!
<ochosi> yup, i'm not surprised
<ochosi> as i said, that's not what the panel config is set out for
<amigamagic> I think my mod is useful for who loves to have grouped icons with a panel high at least 32 pixel
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i'm currently testing the taskbar plugin in a unity-like setup
<ochosi> it's actually not too bad
<amigamagic> I tried to launch a pinned thunar and the pinned icon did flash but no thunar was loaded...
<ochosi> yes, i think the problem is that the plugin saves the app + argument unescaped
<ochosi> so it ends up executing thunar $folder, instead of "thunar $folder"
<ochosi> i noticed that when i pinned parole after opening a movie
<ochosi> you can see in the playlist sidebar that the programme parameters are garbled up
<elfy> knome: thanks - I'd have done the wiki - but wasn't completely sure if we were meeting this week or not
<knome> elfy, np
<knome> the meeting is in the google calendar now as well
<ochosi> good
<elfy> hopefully enough people will pitch up to make it worthwhile - there's a fair bit on it 
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm.conf/+merge/216782
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, received mail about it
<Unit193> Figured in case anyone didn't.
<ochosi> yup, ty
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-23
<bluesabre> knome: could you test the package in this PPA... https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/daily
<bluesabre> with a freshly created menu file
<bluesabre> to see if https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1307729 still happens?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307729 in MenuLibre "preprocess_layout_info: assertion failed: (!directory->preprocessed)" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ... :)
<elfy> knome: any issue with publishing the QA recap? 
<elfy> not sure what the plan is with regard to the other pending one
<amigamagic> thanks guys to who suggested to me to use geany... It's a very nice and light code editor!
<arrith> amigamagic: if you like lightweight you'll love emacs
<arrith> or vim
<arrith> but mostly emacs
<amigamagic> arrith, I love lightweight but I like good and intuitive graphical interfaces too. The generic editor I love the most is notepad++ but very sadly it's an only-windows project.
<amigamagic> anyway, geany is very good as a code editor... It has all the main things you expect from a good code editor, but it's not an elephant as eclipse is.
<arrith> emacs comes with a gui by default
<arrith> :>
<brainwash> !ot
<ubottu> #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
<arrith> oops, thought this was -offtopic, many apologies
<amigamagic> xfce source code uses spaces instead of read tabs, right?
<bluesabre> There's often a mix, but generally I recommend the use of spaces over tabs.
<amigamagic> bluesabre, yes, my code now is a mess of tabs and spaces... I should convert all tabs in spaces... :P
<amigamagic> when I move the code to another editor with different default tab size it will be displayed in a completely different way
<bluesabre> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11094383/how-can-i-convert-tabs-to-spaces-in-every-file-of-a-directory
<bluesabre> :)
<amigamagic> bluesabre, thanks...
<knome> bluesabre, it never happens with a "fresh" menu
<knome> bluesabre, i don't know how i was able to create the broken menu file.
<jhenke> hi folks
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<ochosi> hey
<amigamagic> hi all
<amigamagic> someone there is practical about gtk? I'm not able to place the number "under" the icon, when in deskbar mode
<amigamagic> for the horizontal positioning it's used something like: "gtk_box_pack_start (GTK_BOX (child->box), child->icon, TRUE, TRUE, 0);"
<amigamagic> sorry, for the label it was: "gtk_box_pack_start (GTK_BOX (child->box), child->label, TRUE, TRUE, 0);"
<amigamagic> mmmh... I think this is more an argument for xfce-dev... I move there...
<GridCube> http://delightlylinux.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/xubuntu-14-04-released/  << pleia2 
<GridCube> >The Xubuntu developers deserve compliments once again.
<GridCube> :D
<pleia2> GridCube: thanks :) I'll try to get the new press page up today
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> not exactly xubuntu, but http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/xubuntu-mugshot-app
<jhenke> I'd never imagined unicorn makes the race for the code name....
<pleia2> I love unicorns \o/
<jhenke> \o/ indeed...
<jhenke> you all saw mark's offical post for the u-series?
<pleia2> mhmm
<pleia2> my unicorn is ready https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/13962217616/
<jhenke> pleia2 that's a vute one
<jhenke> cute
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> he was sitting on my shelf, went and grabbed when I heard, applied ubuntu pin
<jhenke> so whoever hasn't seen it: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1363
<elfy> so I was close :p
<jhenke> are there already plans what xubuntu wants to archive for utopic?
<pleia2> ideas will be coming together in the next few weeks, we need to catch our breath post 14.04 release :)
<jhenke> okay, thoaught there might already be plans for it ;)
<jhenke> like things that did not make it into trusty or so
<elfy> afaik the only thing not to make it into trusty were bugfixes
<elfy> specs and the like will turn up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
<Unit193> Logan_: Hah!  Unicorn! :P
<Logan_> already grouped the UtopicUnicorn nick :P
<Unit193> Yep, IdleOne isn't going to like you. ;)  (But really, I was hoping for the monkey. :( )
<jhenke> who is idleOne?
<genii> jhenke: A not-middle-aged fellow with Ubuntu tattoos who likes to get the name of the releases for his nicks
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> goodnight jhenke 
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<knome> 14.10 Utopic Unicorn
<knome> (official)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-24
<jhenke> good morning
<jhenke> since the archive for utopic exists now, will there be daily images starting tomorrow?
<elfy> not yet afaik jhenke 
<elfy> jhenke: atm all upgrading trusty does is install a couple of packages and call it utopic
<slickymasterWork> elfy, jhenke, basically it just upgrades the base-files and distro-info-data packages
<elfy> yea I know :)
<elfy> I tried last night at 10pm and had to do it this morning instead :p
<RFleming> is there a download for utopic?
<ochosi> RFleming: not yet
<RFleming> was going to say
<RFleming> :)
<bluesabre-tmp> \o
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre-tmp> hey Unit193
<ali1234> ochosi : bug 1311685
<ubottu> bug 1311685 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Checkboxes for hidden/visible indicators not working properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311685
<ali1234> this is really weird ^
<ali1234> the checkboxes don't redraw, although they work
<knome> !team | meeting in 5
<ubottu> meeting in 5: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> hey Unit193 
<ochosi> ali1234: sounds odd, almost like a gtk3 bug
<Unit193> knome: Howdy.
<ochosi> although i've never encountered that before elsewhere
<ali1234> i saw a bug like this in OO once, with the gtk UI wrapper
<ali1234> can you reproduce it?
<elfy> ali1234: I saw that bug this morning - I couldn't reproduce it 
<Unit193> Back in a bit.
<knome> hey elfy 
<knome> and ali1234 :)
<ochosi> ali1234: nope, works for me as expected
<ali1234> hmm... maybe depends on theme?
<ochosi> hm, possible
<knome> can we get the meeting started soon, we have a lot of items today
<elfy> I'm ready 
<bluesabre-tmp> \o/
<ochosi> worth asking
<knome> hey bluesabre-tmp 
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 24 19:00:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> i'll skip the action items, updates and announcements...
<knome> #topic Making sure the Processes page is up-to-date 
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes
<knome> if everybody could check that page and see if we are lacking some documentation for any tasks we need to take every cycle...
 * ochosi notices that he never actually read that page
<knome> it's a relatively new one
<knome> and still partly WIP by pleia2, Unit193 and myself
<GridCube> knome, can we have time to read the page and give feedback in the week? 
<knome> i think it would be a good idea to have good documentation of everything around if people need to be away
<ochosi> +1
<knome> GridCube, you can send feedback on the mailing list
<ochosi> also means you don't have to explain things over and over again
<knome> i just wanted to bring this up now since we have just done everything in the last 6 months
<ochosi> if you can simply point ppl to a page
<knome> yep
<GridCube> i mean, can that be an action item for the team? 
<knome> GridCube, consider it as an always-open action item for the team
<GridCube> alright
<knome> if you ever notice the page is missing something, notice people about it
<slickymaster> sorry for being late guys
<knome> pleia2, are you atound?
<GridCube> sure
<knome> *around
<knome> hey slickymaster, np
 * knome mixes up the agenda
<knome> #topic Plans for 14.04 SRU's
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1
<ochosi> i guess no news on ibus?
<knome> no
<ochosi> the lock/suspend issue is being worked on
<ochosi> but no patch so far
<knome> again, this is one of the items that i just wanted to bring up
<knome> if there's anything you think should be in there, or if you think something should be dropped, be in touch with the team
<knome> currently, i think everything in the blueprint is more or less SRU material
<ochosi> i guess, honestly i haven't checked all bugreports
<knome> ok, let's keep on discussing about that and fixing the bugs
<knome> and move on
<knome> #topic Cleaning up Launchpad assets
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1305585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1305585 in Xubuntu Website "Remove unneeded Launchpad assets" [Low,Triaged]
<knome> anybody see a (technical reason) to keep these assets?
<knome> can't see the first two mentioned ever used
<knome> the last one was "used", but doesn't have a technical reason
<knome> and seeing that kind of page might be just more confusing than helpful for users
<ochosi> yeah, the daily and buildbot ones are related
<knome> yep
<ochosi> i do think we can get rid of both
<ochosi> will later bring up my proposal to replace that
<knome> ochosi, ok, good
<knome> #action knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot
<knome> what about the latter?
<knome> i guess...
<GridCube> doesnt that recieve bug reports?
<knome> GridCube, no.
<knome> GridCube, maybe load the page yourself and see and stop guessing
<GridCube> then i dont see why keeping it if its not being used
<GridCube> i did that
<knome> #action knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not
<knome> #topic Create a testing PPA common to -team 
<knome> ochosi, this is yours ;)
<ochosi> yeah, so since we had a lot of testing going on in the 14.04 cycle through PPAs (and it worked well for us i think), i thought we could set up a team for that
<ochosi> so that ppl can push packages that ought to get tested during the dev cycle to a common PPA
<ochosi> to make testers lives easier
<knome> is there any reason to not link that with ~xubuntu-dev?
<ochosi> yeah, not all ppl who upload to that ppa might be in that team
<ochosi> i want to have a rather low hurdle for ppl to contribute to that PPA
<Unit193> -qa made sense to me.
<knome> wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of moderation for packages that are tested by $all_testers?
<bluesabre-tmp> well, we don't want too low
<ochosi> and if we channel everything through -dev, it won't be fun because that team is too small
<knome> i'd like the -dev team to have more members than now
<ochosi> yes, i'd want a team that needs approval
<ochosi> yeah, but -dev can also push to all branches
<ochosi> that's not the same as up-ing packages to PPAs
<bluesabre-tmp> yeah, but with -dev we can verify things before they get pushed
<ochosi> bluesabre-tmp: i don't mind, but it increases the workload
<bluesabre-tmp> yeah
<elfy> but with -dev then things would take ages to get on the ppa 
<knome> i would vote for -dev, we shouldn't make it too easy to "mess up" with PPA's
<ochosi> and might get ppl to just push stuff to their private PPAs
<knome> elfy, not really, currently ochosi and bluesabre-tmp are members
<bluesabre-tmp> ^
<elfy> mmm
<knome> i'd also suggest at least thinking to add Unit193 and Noskcaj 
<bluesabre-tmp> +2
<elfy> well - most of the things that I ended up testing weren't by any of those that have been named
<Unit193> bluesabre-tmp: You've been rejected. :(
<knome> ochosi, do you think there would be people who we'd like/trust to push to the PPA, but don't want to give "all branches" permissions?
<elfy> so I would STILL end up with a personall PPA
<slickymaster> brainwash made a few
<ochosi> knome: brainwash has only been around for one cycle, but he put lots of stuff in his PPA for testing
<Unit193> slickymaster: They could be pretty quickly copied.
<knome> elfy, the point is, those people weren't in that team when we needed them to be
<bluesabre-tmp> yeah, we can sponsor ppa uploads as needed
<ochosi> right
<knome> so we've been bottlenecking on that
<knome> i don't mind another team, if there is justification for it
<Unit193> ochosi: We'd want to make sure to stress to the packagers to not go willie-nillie with it.
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<knome> i just don't want yet another one just because we have one more task to do
<ochosi> Unit193: sure, i agree
<knome> if we can delegate that to one of the current teams, great
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, not sure what you're +1'ing ;)
<ochosi> well as long as it's not just bluesabre-tmp and me reviewing the PPA, i'm fine with -dev
<Unit193> (Could almost use -team. :P )
<knome> Unit193, almost, but not really...
<ochosi> i just wanted to ensure that things are not slowed down because ppl are busy with stuff
<elfy> ochosi: which is my worry - at that point do we gain anything 
<amigamagic> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10844
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10844 in Window Buttons "Visual feedback for grouped windows in the panel (tasklist windows buttons plugin)" [Enhancement,New]
<knome> how many of the team are around?
<elfy> amigamagic: not now please 
<knome> amigamagic, can you please take it up after the meeting
<ochosi> so if Unit193 and Noskcaj get added to -dev and agree to help reviewing and managing that i'm fine with that
<knome> we might just have quorum
<knome> (to vote)
<amigamagic> sorry, I don't know there was a meeting
<knome> team members, raise your hand
<knome> o/
<ochosi> o/
<GridCube> i don't understand lp mechanics so i dont feel qualified to vote
<elfy> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<bluesabre-tmp> o/
<GridCube> o/
<Unit193> \o
<knome> one more?
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<ochosi> Unit193: always the funny one, eh? ;)
<knome> great
<Unit193> ochosi: Yep, pretty much.
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> so, should we vote about this?
<ochosi> why not
<knome> (-dev vs. new team)
<knome> or do people need more information?
<slickymaster> Ithink so
<slickymaster> let's vote it
<ochosi> although, for me it depends on how many ppl are in -dv
<ochosi> -dev i mean
<elfy> knome: 2 of the people on -team weren't about for more or less the whole cycle 
<ochosi> and how many want to help with that work
<knome> elfy, yeah, but we have quorum even with them counting ;)
<knome> let's make an assumption:
<Unit193> Also, just because you technically can push to the branches, doesn't mean you should or will.
<knome> approximately 2 of the people in -dev are always around
<knome> #vote Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
<meetingology> Please vote on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bluesabre-tmp> (good thing Unit193 does not sleep)
<knome> team members can vote.
<GridCube> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<knome> if you want, you should be able to private vote.
<slickymaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
<GridCube> again, i dont feel qualified to say one way or the other
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
<jjfrv8-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<Unit193> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
<ochosi> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
<knome> do we still miss one?
<knome> no
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> technically we should carry on the motion
<knome> but since it's ochosi's work item...
<ochosi> anyway, i hope this doesnt end up in lots of review-work that ends up not getting done cause it's annoying
<knome> right
<ochosi> but let's carry on and hope it goes well :)
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> +1 to that
<knome> #agreed Testing PPA's to be added under ~xubuntu-dev. Reassess if it adds too much workload/creates a bottleneck.
<Unit193> ochosi: Around after the meeting?
<ochosi> i'd actually prefer starting with a single ppa
<ochosi> Unit193: yup
<knome> ochosi, sure sure, single or multiple PPA's
<knome> :)
<ochosi> e.g. "xubuntu+1"
<knome> that's up for members in -dev to decide ;)
<ochosi> right
<knome> #topic Documentation lead change 
<knome> so, here's were we're standing
<ochosi> +h
<knome> yes...
<knome> thanks.
<knome> as discussed, jjfrv8-work wanted to step down from the doc lead position. that would take effect now.
<knome> jjfrv8-work, THANKS!
<Unit193> :(
<elfy> jjfrv8-work: thanks for what you have done for us all :)
<GridCube> :) thanks yes
<jjfrv8-work> thank you all
<knome> but also as discussed, we planned to replace him with slickymaster starting from the U cycle, if he was still up for it and the team agreed
<Unit193> jjfrv8-work: Indeed, bummer to see you go.
<ochosi> thanks a lot jjfrv8-work 
<ochosi> jjfrv8-work: very sad to see you go :/
<slickymaster> yes jjfrv8-work, thanks for a splendid work
<knome> i've asked slickymaster earlier today, and he said he'd still be up for it
<ochosi> weeee
<knome> let's do a quick vote for that.
<ochosi> jjfrv8-work: will you still keep contributing?
<jjfrv8-work> absolutely
<Unit193> I think both knome and slickymaster make sense, considering how much both you did with it.
<ochosi> good
<knome> #vote Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<Unit193> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
<jjfrv8-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
<knome> slickymaster, btw, you are free to vote.
<slickymaster> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from slickymaster
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> :P
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
<ochosi> slickymaster: how modest ;)
<knome> GridCube, poke
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ochosi> congrats slickymaster 
<slickymaster> ochosi: modest or fearful?
<ochosi> :>
<elfy> fearful :p
<knome> #info Taking effect immediately, David Pires (slickymaster) is the new Xubuntu documentation lead.
<knome> #action knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today
<knome> pleia2, still not around?
<knome> ok, let's move on
<knome> #topic Using the project money (gathered from Linux Identity articles)
<knome> there was discussing about this, but nothing has actually happened
<knome> i'm proposing the following:
<knome> pleia2 printed some "xp to xubuntu" flyers recently
<knome> let's cover her printing costs
<GridCube> sure
<ochosi> +1
<elfy> agreed
<slickymaster> +1
<knome> #vote Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<jjfrv8-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<knome> (let's do it the official way..)
<slickymaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, Unit193 
<knome> want to vote? :P
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slickymaster> Unit193: finally fell asleep
<bluesabre-tmp> :D
<Unit193> Hah.
<GridCube> and you went and waked him up
<knome> #action pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her
<knome> we will still have stuff left
<knome> is there anything else anybody thinks we should use it for?
<GridCube> o/
<knome> GridCube, yes?
<GridCube> my always recurring topic
<Unit193> He meant pay him.
<knome> heh.
<ochosi> :)
<GridCube> we dont have a wallaper of the week thing done yet
<GridCube> or desktop of the week rather
<knome> GridCube, err, do we need money for that?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> i waht
<GridCube> XD sorry
<knome> then focus! ;)
<Unit193> knome: To pay you off?
<knome> hah.
<GridCube> i missread
<knome> since we've had it for $quite_long, i would propose the following...
<knome> pay elfy for his headset he bought to be able to take part in vUDS
<GridCube> :)
<Unit193> Xfce take donations?
<knome> Unit193, i guess, but what's the point, they aren't very active? :|
<elfy> really really don't want that - thanks though :)
<knome> ok, then let's not vote
<knome> i was just thinking... :)
<elfy> thanks for the thought :)
<knome> i can keep the money on hold still, but i'd rather get it moving sooner or later
<bluesabre-tmp> any server costs that xubuntu eats?
<ochosi> not really
<Unit193> knome: Still wouldn't be here without them, even though I'd like them to be active I'm thankful that they're still there.
<ochosi> xfce still can't accept donations i think
<ochosi> but i can work on that
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, shimmer is hosted on xfce
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, but that's not exactly xubuntu
<knome> and i doubt it adds to their costs..
<ochosi> not really, i think xfce is mostly hosted gratuitiosly
<knome> is anybody linked with loco teams that could do something cool xubuntu-related?
<pleia2> thanks guys
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<bluesabre-tmp> skellat
<pleia2> sorry, was at an appointment
<knome> pleia2, PM me the amount and your paypal addy and i'll get it done today
<Unit193> knome: OLF is coming up, yes.
<knome> do we want a big xubuntu banner?
<ochosi> knome: what about bug bounty?
<knome> is that useful, or do we always go under ubuntu anyway?
<knome> ochosi, for what bug? :)
<ochosi> the lid suspend bug?
<ochosi> any bug that is pressing
<ochosi> or even features
<ochosi> it has become quite popular recently in foss projects
<ochosi> and i think it works as a motivation
<ochosi> and as a reward other than the vocal praise for ppl who actually do stuff
<knome> i'm fine with that
<ochosi> they can still decide to donate the money back
<ochosi> or to another bug
<knome> if there isn't anything that needs "covering" now, let's hold the money
<ochosi> we don't have to spend it all on one bug
<knome> ideas always welcome
<ochosi> ok
<knome> #topic Review and discuss team reporting 
<knome> pleia2! :)
<pleia2> oh yes
<pleia2> so I've really just been copying the action items from meetings into our team reports
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<pleia2> March is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/14/March
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks, a lot better than having to write them ;)
<pleia2> indeed!
<knome> yes, that's an improvement
<pleia2> I think it's going ok :)
<knome> now if #done only worked...
<pleia2> heh, right
<knome> well, let's use it
<knome> actually not
<pleia2> anyway, I think we're ok continuing this for the time being, unless anyone else wants to do more work on reports
<knome> but money is sent to pleia2, and $0.40 fee covered by the xubuntu team ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<pleia2> thanks
<ochosi> thanks for doing that
<knome> yeah, thanks
<knome> we should probably mention it in the processes page that the one adding the meeting minutes should also update the team updates page.
<knome> and if it's the first meeting of the month, cycle the monthly pages
<knome> #topic Use a common area for detailed discussions notes such as Trello
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/U/Trello%20Communication
<knome> elfy, 
<Unit193> I tended to ignore it. :/
<knome> Unit193, wait, when did you add the meeting minutes? ;)
<slickymaster> I felt it useful
 * GridCube leaves
<pleia2> if it's valuable to folks, I think trello is lovely to use, but I have my own todo lists so "update trello" tends to land there :)
<elfy> ok - so I was just thinking about us communicating a bit better - I spent a lot of time last cycle - going over the same ground - I really don't want to do that again
<knome> besides, that link is bogus
<slickymaster> and elfy and I did use it quite a lot in -qa
<ochosi> yeah, trello is very good to use
<elfy> and it worked for those of -qa that did use it 
<bluesabre-tmp> elfy, you should harrass everyone with !team
<bluesabre-tmp> :D
<knome> elfy, is it about communication about "what do we need to do (generally)" ?
<elfy> why?
<knome> elfy, or specific action items people need to take?
<ochosi> even for managing progress, i'd actually prefer it to the clunky blueprints on launchpad (if it were integrated in launchpad)
<knome> the positive side to LP is the good status page.
<elfy> it's more general - there's not anywhere other than blueprints to actually write anything - and that would soon be a nightmare
<Unit193> ochosi: Nah, if it were on LP, it'd be far slower.
<knome> elfy, want to expand the spec for next week?
<ochosi> Unit193: hehe, yeah, there we go :p
<knome> elfy, eg. briefly cover what we would use it for, and maybe some action screenshots
<elfy> ok
<knome> cheers
<ochosi> cool
<elfy> but if we don't do that - we do need to do something
<knome> #action elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow
<knome> elfy, yep, anything that works for the team :)
<ochosi> trellolo
<knome> okay, and now the item you have all been waiting for
<knome> #topic Project future: New project lead, council, or something else? 
<ochosi> incecream?
<knome> wb Unit193 ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: feeling so nervous..?
<elfy> too late - we voted Unit193 in :p
<knome> you have just voted the next XPL
<knome> yep
<knome> too bad :|
<knome> joking aside...
<pleia2> lol
<knome> i think we should organize a call for XPL nominations
<slickymaster> the decison was taken long ago in the backstages
<pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members
<knome> there's a specific reason why i say this...
<elfy> knome: and how long will we wait for that
<knome> i'll do the call at latest on monday
<pleia2> now that our team is more than 4 people, I think we could actually support a small council if we wanted to go that route
<knome> then some time to gather nominations
 * knome refrains from disclosing the reason
<knome> ...but other people can.
 * elfy thinks we should have called earlier
<knome> elfy, would have been madness to do that during the release
<ochosi> +1
<knome> it has always gone like this
<ochosi> elfy: knome is still here ;)
<elfy> yea - I know that :)
<ochosi> so it's his problem if there's no new xpl, he'll just have to stay :D
<pleia2> time machines ftw
<knome> hah
<knome> well, if no nominations are sent...
<knome> then we will have to investigate other options
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> after loooong consideration and discussions...
<knome> but as pleia2 said... yes, we could sustain a council
<ochosi> i've started to consider applying for the terrible terrible burden that knome has been carrying for us
<knome> :)
<pleia2> :D
<Unit193> Well that could solve that.
<ochosi> there were a few subsequent discussions with bluesabre 
<ochosi> (who unfortunately left the meeting as it seems)
<ochosi> so anyway, we can talk about that when he's around again i guess
<knome> yeah
<knome> anyway... i would very much like to see a "single" XPL instead of council
<knome> hey bluesabre-tmp!
<ochosi> oh, speak of the devil
<elfy> I would prefer to see a single one as well if we can 
<pleia2> knome: me too!
<knome> i would also say that we need to lessen the burden
<ochosi> yes, ok, so now that bluesabre-tmp is around again
<bluesabre-tmp> ok, what did I miss?
<knome> if at all possible
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, you're the new XPL
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, just voted on that
<pleia2> haha
<ochosi> bluesabre-tmp: i can pastebin you the backlog
<bluesabre-tmp> O.o
<ochosi> or you can check the online-log
<slickymaster> ochosi propsed you and we all agreed
<bluesabre-tmp> ochosi: sure, trying to navigate as little as possible since I'm testhering on my phone
<slickymaster> *proposed
<pleia2> seriously though, knome will do call for nominations by monday
<elfy> knome: so how will we lessen the burden?
<knome> pasted to bluesabre-tmp's PM
<knome> so basically,
<knome> well that's one of the things to do imo ^
<knome> we need to rethink "who" is it who does all the heavy lifting
<knome> to me, it feels natural that the -release team had a bit more responsbility, but also power
<knome> yes, i will.
<knome> release team could take some of the paperwork
<knome> that is, filing exception bugs
<knome> i've been cooperating a lot in -release, and have been happy to see elfy do that as well
<elfy> they're not too bad in there ;)
<bluesabre-tmp> :)
<knome> maybe there could be team members who would make sure the blueprints are up-to-date
<knome> or whatever method we are using
<elfy> can't team leads do their blueprints?
<knome> ideally, all people would manage their own work items
<pleia2> yeah, I could do a much better job of my blueprints
<knome> sure, that works as well if it... works
<ochosi> yeah, i think it's hard to formalize that process
<ochosi> i mean we can say, we create a subset of ppl who handle blueprints
<knome> ochosi, since you have been pondering this, is there something else you are afraid of?
<elfy> well I'm happy enough to do qa ones
<knome> i don't think it's a bad idea that everybody *can*
<ochosi> after thinking more about it, not that much
<ochosi> there's just stuff that you've been doing that i haven't done often (like chairing meetings)
<knome> if a work item is assigned to [user], user should make sure it's updated
<ochosi> and you're irc-ier than me
<knome> for chairing meetings, i'd really love to see a rotating chair or something
<ochosi> yeah...
<ochosi> would be cool
 * elfy hates driving the bot 
<ochosi> :)
<knome> i guess nobody likes it
<ochosi> i assume that too
<elfy> it drives on the wrong side of the road :p
<bluesabre-tmp> I'm usually not able to make it to these mettings
<bluesabre-tmp> *meetings
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, then we should reschedule
<Unit193> I tend to miss the beginning.
<knome> i've no problem with varying meeting times
<knome> we can even let the chair mostly decide the time.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> we can have them cycle around a bit
<knome> well take all team leaders, or team members
<ochosi> to make sure all team members can attend once a month at least
<bluesabre-tmp> hm, this sounds like a good idea
<knome> cycle through them evenly
<knome> when it's your turn, schedule how you wish
<knome> and others will, or won't, be available
<elfy> mmm not sure about that
<ochosi> makes chairing more comfortable
<knome> it's not a huge issue that everybody is not being able to make it
<knome> we have the meeting minutes
<knome> and we have the mailing list
<slickymaster> is there any channel where one could do some sort of testdrives knome?
<ochosi> yeah, and ppl are around anyway
<knome> slickymaster, #meetingology
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> elfy, express your concerns :)
 * elfy test drives the bot in FC meetings sometimes 
<elfy> hang on - just getting the words right :)
<elfy> I'd worry about meetings at that point end up being empty - nothing would get done 
<elfy> in time
<knome> well,
<knome> it'd be good practice to make sure at least somebody is able to make it ;)
<elfy> how about a straw poll with a doodle poll of general times 
<knome> we've done that too many times IMO
<knome> any time always seems to be perfect
<knome> then when we start running the meetings at that time, people can't come
<knome> which is one of the reason why i think a "moving target" could work just as well...
<ochosi> +1
<elfy> second thought - a -team mailing list - at least then we'd be able to have targetted discussions
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<knome> elfy, i could +1 that
<bluesabre-tmp> I like that idea
<knome> would *only* team members be allowed to send?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> like a 'council' list 
<knome> because if not, soon it would become xubuntu-dev-team-please-include-libreoffice
<ochosi> huhu
<elfy> exactly 
<bluesabre-tmp> hah
<knome> what do others think?
<knome> pleia2, i know you're opposed to redundant infrastructure, so i want your opinion
<elfy> then at that point - we'd have 'votes' on issues that can be taken to meetings whatever time they are
<ochosi> we can give it a try
<elfy> or 
<knome> #action knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list
<knome> elfy, yeah?
<elfy> if we do go to something like trello - we could make that private
<knome> well, that's a bit meh
<knome> or maybe not
<bluesabre-tmp> trello does do emails notifications
<elfy> yea
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, yeah, but is it about all changes?
<knome> i don't want dumb diffs :(
<knome> i want well-written, thought out mails
<bluesabre-tmp> it's "hey, you've missed 4 updates!"
<elfy> knome: that 
<slickymaster> theoretically elfy's idea has potential
<bluesabre-tmp> I know because ochosi keep updating a trello that I should be contributing to
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, yeah, that's just email "crap"
<knome> even if it was about meaningful things
<elfy> I'd be inclined to m/l rather than trello for team stuff though
<knome> another idea is
<knome> add some moderators and take out the whip at -devel mailing list
 * Unit193 would be a bad choice.
<elfy> don't like that idea 
<knome> we can make people's mails autoadded to moderation queue by email address
<knome> i think we need to do $something for the -devel list nonetheless
<knome> especially if we create a -team mailing list
<knome> because at that point, -devel could very easily turn into -feature-requests
<knome> i'm still waiting for any input from pleia2 :)
<pleia2> sorry
<knome> np
<elfy> not really - most of the stuff that goes to -devel is general 
<elfy> ly what it should be - call's etc 
<knome> elfy, most of the stuff there now is stuff that could be in -users
<pleia2> it's not like -devel is overwhelming
<slickymaster> yes, it could perfectley land on xubuntu mailing list
<knome> well, most of the stuff by non-team-members..
<elfy> since release I'd agree 
<knome> do we want to design a tag for team communication?
<knome> pleia2, ^
<elfy> pleia2: what we were discussing was a new private m/l for -team
<pleia2> elfy: yeah
<knome> i know anybody can use that, but...
<knome> might be possible to autosend to moderation queue if it's not from team member emails
<pleia2> so launchpad makes it very easy for us to create a private list there
<elfy> knome: well - I did for a while mail the list with [TEAM] in the subject 
<knome> pleia2, launchpad lists are meh.
<ochosi> holy crap, there is a scorpion in our appartment (no kidding!)
<elfy> got a couple of replies
<ochosi> bbabl
<elfy> good lord 
<pleia2> knome: I don't know that we'd need it for a lot anyway :) mostly we just talk here tbh
<knome> pleia2, i'd just make IS create another
<bluesabre-tmp> ochosi is not going to make it
<knome> well, related to this
<knome> it was brought up by lionel (mrpouit) that it's getting harder and harder for him to follow/help with development since he's now a lot less in IRC
<Unit193> Uhh.  I'm still stuck at where he said "scorpion"...
<knome> so i think we are being (partly unconsciously) in exclusive
<knome> -in
<knome> pleia2, send meeting minutes there?
<knome> pleia2, run votes there
<pleia2> sure
<knome> let's do a quick, non-finally-decisive vote
<elfy> knome: 
<Logan_> yes hello is this a meeting thing
<knome> to get a general idea what people think
<knome> Logan_, yes, very much
<knome> elfy, 
<elfy> if we went to -team m/l we could have -release team as the moderators 
<bluesabre-tmp> hey Logan_ :)
<bluesabre-tmp> oh yeah, knome, my -release is about to expire, and it said to message you
<elfy> or something - so it's not just another XPL task
<knome> elfy, yes, though we wouldn't need much
<elfy> bluesabre-tmp: he knows :)
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, yep, just a sec
<bluesabre-tmp> :)
<elfy> knome: nope - just when people move in and out of -team
<elfy> but yea a quick vote wfm
<knome> #vote Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<bluesabre-tmp> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
<slickymaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
<pleia2> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, elfy: i've extended you for a month in -release, until we get a new XPL/council/something
<bluesabre-tmp> knome: thanks
<knome> bluesabre-tmp, elfy: let's reassess the situation at that point
<elfy> ok - ta
<knome> other team members?
<knome> #action knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> ok, finally..
<knome> #subtopic Team leaders
<knome> ochosi, pleia2, elfy: you fine to continue with your leader hats? :)
<elfy> yep
 * knome bows to elfy 
<pleia2> sure
<elfy> as long as people are ok with it of course
 * knome bows to pleia2 
<pleia2> knome: we should chat re: website at some point though, if you are no xpl, you may want that hat :)
<knome> i don't think we are generally voting about (non-project) team leads
<knome> pleia2, we can
<knome> i don't want anything in 6 months
<knome> but i'm by tentatively open for stuff after that
<bluesabre-tmp> I'd be willing to apply for technical lead, not sure if others are currently interested
<knome> mhm,
<knome> i would approve that direction
<knome> having a technical lead that's around would also help with the XPL burden
 * pleia2 nods
<Unit193> bluesabre-tmp: Get uploader rights. ;)
<knome> i'm all open for other nomiations as well, but i'd say it's a big pro if you are actually around.
<bluesabre-tmp> Unit193: yeah, thats the next step
<knome> #action New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
<meetingology> ACTION: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
<knome> hmpf.
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> #action new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
<meetingology> ACTION: new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
<knome> #nick new-xpl
<knome> #topic Other issues
<knome> anything else?
<knome> yeah, i think we are done and all exhausted :)
<knome> #topic Next meeting
<elfy> now't from me for sure
<bluesabre-tmp> in 5 minutes
<bluesabre-tmp> :>
<knome> hah
<pleia2> I'm gone next week
<knome> i might be away @may 1 too
<knome> is *monday* a bad day for people?
<knome> that is, may 5
<slickymaster> I'll be away between april 30th and may 5th
<elfy> fine for me 
<knome> slickymaster, including 5, or not?
<bluesabre-tmp> good for e
<pleia2> I'm gone then too :)
<bluesabre-tmp> cinco de mayo
<slickymaster> excluding knome 
<knome> mhm
<knome> well what about tuseday may 6?
<slickymaster> workday the 5th
<knome> pleia2, better? :P
<pleia2> nope
<pleia2> I'm back on wednesday :D
<knome> hah
<knome> let's do email stuff then
<knome> and have a meeting on thursday
<knome> the regular time
<pleia2> k
<knome> #info Next meeting: May 8, 19 UTC
<knome> let's hope we have XPL submission mostly in by that
<knome> can not quite be, because need 2 weeks
<knome> (iirc)
<knome> anyway, thanks!
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 24 20:39:38 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-24-19.00.moin.txt
<knome> bbl
<elfy> thanks knome 
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<bluesabre-tmp> thanks knome
<Unit193> Well if the scorpion didn't get him...
<bluesabre-tmp> later everyone
 * knome encore-bows
<knome> Unit193, :|
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<knome> -->
<slickymaster> finally dinner
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<ochosi> re
<elfy> ochosi: safely back I hope :)
<ochosi> yeah, caught the scorpio and escorted him out
<ochosi> gf is still in a bit of a shock
<elfy> I bet :)
<ochosi> but we can laugh again already
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> will post a photo later
<knome> phew, the future of the project is safe again
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> xubuntu has a "bitten by a scorpion" factor of 1 :\
<ochosi> :}
<ochosi> actually he was tiny, about 3-4cm long
<ochosi> but still, if you've never seen one...
<ochosi> in your bathroom!
<pleia2> I hear the smaller ones more dangerous :)
<ochosi> will take this to #xubuntu-scorpions now
<ochosi> (a channel for music and animal lovers)
<pleia2> ++
<knome> lol
<knome> was thinking about that
<knome> meeting minutes are up
<ochosi> ty
<knome> slickymaster, around?
<knome> Xubuntu/Leaders updated
<knome> ochosi, your TZ as well
<ochosi> knome: the TZ is the same though
<knome> yeah ;)
<ochosi> and it'll change again in less time than lies behind us when it wasn't correct :)
<knome> maybe we should just stick to UTC+bleh timezones.
<knome> which would be more useful anyway
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> feel free to do that change if you please
<slickymaster> knome, I am now
<knome> slickymaster, you're listed in Xubunut/Leaders now.
<slickymaster> ok knome, thanks
<knome> "it's out": https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/010087.html
<ochosi> updated leaders/tz
<ochosi> is that what you had in mind, knome ^ ?
<knome> that looks good
<knome> though DST is meh
<knome> ;)
<knome> just saying...
<ochosi> yeah, not really my fault :)
<knome> yep
<ochosi> am i the only one who thinks it's a bit odd that previous leaders start from oldest to newest?
<knome> you can switch that if you wish
<knome> i don't think it matters much
<ochosi> yeah, probably not
<ochosi> just took me a while to figure out what the sorting was
<knome> more mail @ -devel
<knome> ochosi, re: sort order, i think it made most sense if it was ordered by "from" time
<knome> but when did lionel begin his tech lead journey?
<ochosi> yeah, well, let's just leave it for now
<ochosi> it really isn't as important, as you correctly said
<ochosi> this is actually a bit sucky: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1306917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1306917 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker: screen always automatically locked" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> seems it's just a small fluke in one of our config files though
<ochosi> or: lls not reading it correctly
<brainwash_> ochosi: so you want to reward people for fixing the annoying post release bugs instead of fixing them yourself? :D
<ochosi> brainwash_: could be a nice way of getting more/new ppl involved
<brainwash_> we could use crypto currency for this purpose
<knome> >__<
<ochosi> nobody can ever do/fix everything themselves
<knome> i'll disapprove that.
<brainwash_> you don't like dogecoin and co? :(
<knome> if they didn't drag so many people who are completely lost, they could be tolerable
<brainwash_> a nice overview with different stats about current bugs could help, something like a top list to encourage users to fix the most annoying bugs
<ochosi> anyway, this doesn't have to be restricted to bugs, it can be about features too
<brainwash_> yes
<brainwash_> this would emphasize the value of xubuntu being a community project
<knome> i'm not sure how the fact that we pay to contributors, in a way or another, emphasizes the community aspect?
<brainwash_> the nice overview will
<knome> right...
<knome> don't we have those on a blueprint already?
<brainwash_> paying people won't work anyway
<brainwash_> blueprints are ugly
<brainwash_> mmh, paying people could work nicely... if paid by the community
<brainwash_> like donating
<brainwash_> now we only need to pay someone to implement and maintain such a system :)
<ochosi> i think that we can look to elementary and see how they handle it
<knome> it shouldn't be too hard to set that up, and i would like if it pulled the core data from LP
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> again, as with other stuff, if people think it's useful...
<knome> ...i can have a look at it
<amigamagic> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10846
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10846 in Window Buttons "Grouped icons sometimes are wrongly rendered as a mini-icon" [Minor,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-25
<amigamagic> bugfix included :)
<knome> i'm off not
<knome> *now
<knome> i will be back on saturday night, no internets for me tomorrow :)
<knome> have fun!
<amigamagic> see you knome
<Unit193> Logan_: Here, bored, and ready to break utopic?
<Logan_> Unit193: always!
<Logan_> Unit193: but later - I'm working on an NLP project at the moment
<Unit193> Logan_: I have a dsc, debdiff, and lp branch ready for an irker merge, want to upload? (Err, this isn't Xubuntu...)
<Unit193> Logan_: Ah, cool.  Have fun? :P
<Logan_> lol
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Got to give them options! :P
<bluesabre> of course
<bluesabre> then they can't ignore you :>
<Unit193> Meh, it's not high priority IMO, so he can ignore all he wants.
<Logan_> Unit193: I'm back
<Unit193> Do well?
<Logan_> yeah, my group is making pretty good progress
<Logan_> we're number two on the leaderboard for sentiment predictions :P
<Logan_> but I won't bore you with that
<Unit193> Yes, don't bore me with sentiment! :P
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/irker.debdiff <<< That's to the Debian package, or https://sigma.unit193.net/source/irker_2.7+dfsg-1ubuntu1.dsc if you prefer.
<Logan_> also, I just discovered that I'm the 14th overall top contributor to Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<Logan_> I don't know if I should be concerned or not
<Unit193> Depends if you push a load of crap in. ;)
<Unit193> Hah, of course Pitti would be on top
<Unit193> (I'm more happy not being in that list, honestly.)
<Logan_> hmm, aren't we going to have systemd in utopia?
<Logan_> er
<Logan_> utopic
<Unit193> As an option, yes.  Want to leave it in then?  It won't build now, and I was kind of thinking trusty at the time (wasn't updated for trusty at all, poor package.)
<Logan_> hmm, maybe let's wait a bit on this, then
<Logan_> updating now would be somewhat silly, given the circumstances (the archive is not really open, and we will have systemd shortly)
<Unit193> Righty-o.  I'll find somehting else for you.
<Logan_> although the archive being in limbo has not stopped me from uploading stuff, of course :P
<Unit193> I don't think I have any other updates that don't deserv only talked about in -ot, so there we go.
<Unit193> Logan_: Just wondering here, but Ubuntu have the same stance on waf?
<Logan_> we're definitely not as strict about it as Debian is
<Logan_> like, Debian prohibits uploading of packages with waf binaries, and I don't think we do
<Logan_> but the stance is probably the same (they should be unpacked)
<Unit193> Hmm..  I've been using thunar-dropbox-plugin since quantal, and I think the main thing holding it back might be waf, IIRC.
<Unit193> Anyway, I think I'll leave you alone now. :)
<Logan_> lol, I don't mind talking :P
<Logan_> I do have better things to do, but I don't care to do them
<Logan_> A+ student right here :P
<Unit193> Remember, I'm the crazy one that tends to create his own repository, so I try to limit that talk in here and only do as requested.
<Unit193> Had a friend like that, terrible work ethic, but A+ unless he forgot to turn in his work.
<Unit193> Logan_: OK, one last dumb one.  Chance screen will get sync'd from exp?  (Dangit I need an offtopic channel to bother you in...)
<Logan_> ##logan works
<Logan_> or you can PM me :P
<ochosi> craaap, small bug in our icons :'(
<elfy> oops
<ochosi> fixed in git. phew.
<amigamagic> hi all
<ochosi> hi
<amigamagic> ochosi, have you tried that mod for the taskbar plugin?
<ochosi> haven't had time yet
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1312641
<ubottu> bug 1312641 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Removable drives and media do not automatically mounted at boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312641
<brainwash> you should be able to confirm this
<brainwash> but it might be the expected behavior
<amigamagic> brainwash, I don't know if it's the same issue but I can confirm that if you connect a second hdd that wasn't there when you installed xubuntu, the device is not auto-mounted, but on the desktop you will see the icon to mount it
<amigamagic> I had to mod the fstab to mount it permanently at each boot
<amigamagic> from a linux administrator point of view, I think this is the right behaviour, because it's the administrator that should choice what and where mount something at the boot
<amigamagic> but from a simple user perspective, it could be perceived as a bug
<brainwash> right, it's not clear how to handle this
<amigamagic> I think the best thing would be to let the user (with administrative privileges) choose what do when the system detects a change in the devices, and then don't bother him anymore
<brainwash> maybe someone could check what gnome/unity does
<amigamagic> something like: "Detected a new device connected to your PC. Do you want to mount it permanently at each boot? YES/NO"
<amigamagic> it would be nice, but maybe I'm asking too much...
<brainwash> mmh, not sure about that
<brainwash> keep it simple
<amigamagic> of course, I'm talking about devices connected directly to the motherboard
<brainwash> so not removable devices?
<amigamagic> usually you don't want to permanently connect a removible device like a pendrive
<amigamagic> but each user has its own needs...
<brainwash> the important thing is that auto mounting works better now in 14.04
<amigamagic> I don't know, being that xubuntu 14.04 it's my first try in xubuntu world. :)
<amigamagic> I think that now, if you insert a pendrive, this will be automounted and a thunar window will open
<amigamagic> I like this
<amigamagic> but what happens if you insert a pendrive and then reboot?
<brainwash> yes, this is the scenario we are trying to understand :)
<brainwash> but the current behavior should be the expected one (no auto mount on boot/reboot)
<ochosi> knome: we could add some captions to the images in the screenshot page
<ochosi> and centering them instead of left-aligning could be nice, too
<elfy> ochosi: I'm itching to get the QA recap blog post out - is the lightlocker one going to be long ?
<Travis> Hello
<Travis> I've noticed one thing about Xubuntu 14.04 & my Panasonic CF-29 Toughbook:  When I close the lid, the screen won't come back on after opening the lid.
<GridCube> Travis, a very usual bug im afraid
<GridCube> Travis, bug #1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Black screen after login from suspend in Xubuntu 14.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<Travis> ok, so no closing the lid unless I shut it down, I guess.
<GridCube> Travis, can we move this to #xubuntu , where you can get proper support
<Travis> aye
<elfy> brainwash: as expected - a usb plugged into machine when it boots is not mounted - never seen it do anything different, though that's not to say it's the 'expected' behaviour - what that is I don't know
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for confirming this :)
<andrzejr> re my question in #xubuntu... on 14.04 wake up seems to be equivalent to inserting SD card. So every time I wake up my laptop I get a brand new thunar window showing the contents of SD card inserted into a slot.
<SkippersBoss> xu wake up has more nasty side effects. xmbc turns into a black screen. wm could be causing trouble. 
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Finally looked at the python problem, wasn't incompatible icu like you thought, https://github.com/bear/parsedatetime/commit/51d47dd57a8ac78208aa69015d7e13bdf1bd3574
 * Unit193 wonders if he should fix locally or try to fix for "others."
<gry> knome: is there progress on making the website localizable?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-26
<Unit193> gry: He's away until the weekend.
<gry> I'm trying to idle, so hopefully I'd get the response then
<Logan_> hey Gryllida
<knome> elfy, replied, bbl
<elfy> knome: just seen - I think we're probably looking at this in exactly the same way - just neither making the point very well :p
<knome> elfy, heh, yeah
<elfy> knome: I added a couple of screenshots and a couple of links to the trello spec 
<knome> noticed
<Unit193> Will we want to s/gnome/mate/ for a few things seeded?
<brainwash> like?
<Unit193> We ship at least: gnome-calculator, gnome-sudoku, gnome-system-tools, system-config-printer-gnome  -system-tools has a mate version IIRC.
<brainwash> evince?
<amigamagic> why you don't ship with a default backup system too like duplicity + deja-dup?
<amigamagic> I created a simple custom action in thunar, so deja-dup is well integrated in the file manager like it's on nautilus with ubuntu
<Unit193> For one, Depends: libgnome-control-center1 isn't so nice.
<brainwash> a lib?
<brainwash> shouldn't cause much harm
<Unit193> brainwash: Generally it turns into a rabbit hole with those type of packages.
<amigamagic> with deja-dup you right click on a file in thunar and you could recover some previous version of it... It's so simple... And deja-dup + duplicity don't have some strange potentially dangerous deps, like some gnome tools 
<brainwash> people simply install this kind of software manually if they need it
<Unit193> Well that's sure at least nice to know.  (I don't think it should be default, but that's me.)
<brainwash> most people don't do backups anyway
<amigamagic> in ubuntu it's installed by default
<amigamagic> when you install deja-dup in xubuntu it will appear nicely in the system settings panel
<amigamagic> and when it does some backup you will see the notifications correctly. I tested it.
<amigamagic> so I don't know why you shouldn't package it in xubuntu too. When you install it, the service is disabled by default, so it doesn't disturb the user that doesn't want to use it.
<amigamagic> anyway, it's only a suggestion... I'm happy enough that it works and I can use it in xubuntu too... :-) 
<brainwash> amigamagic: then create a bug report and/or write to the ml :)
<Unit193> Well, more like a proposal to the roadmap.
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> and just because it's installed in Ubuntu isn't a reason to have it default
<Unit193> ^
<Unit193> That reasoning doesn't make sense to me, if anything it'd be a reason to avoid it.
<amigamagic> sorry, I didn't mean that it's useful because it's in the ubuntu branch
<Unit193> To me it more falls under "What some people might want, thus may be good to mention." but there's many different ways to (not) backup your files.
<amigamagic> I meaned that the ubuntu team considers deja-dup stable enough to use it as their default backup system
<amigamagic> and it's well integrable with thunar, like I said before
<amigamagic> I tried various incremental backup systems but no one of them could permit me to save my incremental backup on a NAS
<amigamagic> until I tried deja-dup...
<bluesabre> yes, deja dup is good stuff
<bluesabre> you should recommend it for inclusion in 14.10 so the team can consider it :)
<amigamagic> maybe I should send a mail to the devel ml
<elfy> amigamagic: it needs to have a spec done like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Hexchat
<elfy> if it is just on the m/l then nothing will happen
<elfy> it'll need to be a good argument - and not I think it's good - to get me to get closer to sitting on the fence :)
<amigamagic> elfy, so where should I put this argument?
<amigamagic> in the link above?
<elfy> write a new spec for it - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/ 
<elfy> you should see the box to start a new spec
<amigamagic> ok
<elfy> but I have to say I can't think of any compelling reason why everyone should have it installed 
<amigamagic> elfy, if you use your pc as an office machine, then it's likely that you have many documents. Sometimes you delete (for mistake) or edit a document... In those cases, if you don't have a previous backup of it... You are done!
<amigamagic> With deja-dup you would right click on the file, select: "Restore previous version", select what version you want to restore and that's all! 
<elfy> so if you are on an office machine and you don't have backups - and delete something - you should be sacked
<Unit193> rsync is awesome.
<amigamagic> elfy, exactly... With deja-dup the user would not be sacked. :-)
<amigamagic> So we could save many human lifes... 
<elfy> that's not a good enough argument for installing it my opinion - if someone needs something they can install it
<elfy> people want libreoffice - we don't seed it
<brainwash> didn't you say that it's disabled by default?
<elfy> I like clementine - we don't seed it
<elfy> just becasue you like something does not equate to us having to seed it for everyone
<amigamagic> Unit193, deja-dup uses duplicity which uses rsync and rdiff. ;)
<Unit193> Good for it?
<elfy> amigamagic: what you've got to realise is that just because you like it doesn't mean we should have it as default
<brainwash> a modern OS without an easy to use backup tool... mmh
<elfy> without a spec it's just talk anyway 
<brainwash> we just never realized it before
<brainwash> amigamagic will gladly write the spec :)
<elfy> lets see if it gets me on the fence then ;)
<Unit193> What's the cost?
<amigamagic> elfy, I think a modern os for desktop/workstation usage should have a default backup system, but if you don't want to include it in the package, then for what I should make the effort?
<elfy> no idea - never used it
<elfy> amigamagic: I'm just one vote :)
<brainwash> but a spec is the first step
<amigamagic> ok, so I will make it... :)
<amigamagic> Unit193, the cost of deja-dup?
<elfy> yes
<Unit193> On a stock install, yeah.  For me, with all the extras I have, 8,222KB.
<amigamagic> the deja-dup app should be something like 3MB
<elfy> 6715kb on utopic clean 
<amigamagic> then there is duplicity that should be something like 1MB
<amigamagic> I think about 4MB in total for "deja-dup GUI + duplicity + librsync"
<elfy> it's 6715kb for what it needs in a clean install
<Unit193> elfy: Makes sense, it'd pull in libunity-protocol-private0, libunity-scopes-json-def-desktop, libunity9 and others I don't have but are stock.
<elfy> didn't check the packages tbh 
<amigamagic> I'm unable to create a new page in that link... It tells me that I can't modify the page...
<amigamagic> In the new specification field I put: "Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Deja-Dup"
<elfy> you logged in?
<amigamagic> yes
<amigamagic> I will give another try...
<amigamagic> If I'm here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<amigamagic> where I have to click to go in the Specifications page?
<amigamagic> I don't see any links...
<elfy> there isn't one - it's here though https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications
<amigamagic> so I have to insert it in the url
<amigamagic> it's hidden to the public?
<elfy> not really 
<amigamagic> but if you don't know the link, you cannot go there... :D
<elfy> see where it says Utopic Unicorn - there is an empty box with a New Spec button - fill in the name - hit the button
<elfy> I didn't know it was there till the other day - I just did something sensible like go backwards in the url ;)
<amigamagic> see you later, I have to go
<elfy> cya amigamagic 
<knome> one should just write the spec name in the field, not the url..
<elfy> yea
<Unit193> knome: Not sure you saw, but  /lastlog website  when you're "back"
<knome> gry, not really. it's more or less on hold.
<knome> Unit193, yeah, saw that earlier but apparenyl forgot to reply
<knome> amigamagic, one should just write the spec name in the field, not the url
<amigamagic> hi knome
<amigamagic> I'm just back from dinner
<amigamagic> I should write /Utopic/Deja-Dup in the specification field?
<knome> no...
<knome> the specification name.
<amigamagic> ok
<knome> amigamagic, were you able to sort it out?
<amigamagic> yes, I'm writing the specs now
<pleia2> oh hey, before I run off again - the folks at http://linuxluddites.com/ heard my xubuntu episode on the ubuntu uk podcast and asked to interview me next week
<pleia2> not sure what that says about us luddite-wise, but they seem cool :)
<knome> pleia2, lol ;)
<amigamagic> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Deja-Dup
<knome> yep. i get notifications of all pages changed under the xubuntu namespace
<amigamagic> so you are the big brother :D
<amigamagic> please check for mispellings, I'm not too good with english :P
<amigamagic> *misspellings
<knome> the content is more important than the correctness of the language
<amigamagic> do you think I missed something or it's all right?
<knome> you should read what the specification template had listed
<amigamagic> I used this as reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Hexchat
<knome> the difference is that we already have an IRC client
<knome> but not a backup software
<knome> you are not describing much why we need ot
<knome> *it
<amigamagic> mmmh... It's not sufficient the fact that all the modern os integrate a backup system solution well integrated with the os itself?
<Unit193> That's the wrong one to use for sure, it's just a stub (apart from the fact I made it, of course, that's worse.)
<Unit193> "Because everyone else is doing it!" -- not the best reason. :/
<amigamagic> And that it's a very important thing to do regularly backup of your important files?
<knome> amigamagic, well if you thing that's the strong/obvious selling point, maybe you should describe what they are using and what kind of options they are providing
<amigamagic> I mean, if you play with your pc ok, but if you do some "work" with it, than you should always backup your important files
<knome> amigamagic, if you somehow missed the specification template, which was shown to you when you created the specification, you can read it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/SpecificationTemplate
<amigamagic> ok thanks knome, I will read it
<knome> amigamagic, i think it would be valuable to assess if simply including backup software actually makes people run backups more, or not
<Unit193> But why should "I" use deja-dup over rsync, thunar, or anything else?
<knome> amigamagic, or if something else would have to be done (in addition)
<amigamagic> Unit193, thunar??
<knome> including inkscape in the seed won't make our users artists..
<Unit193> knome: It won't?
<knome> Unit193, i doubt.
<amigamagic> knome, I didn't know backup solutions in Linux so I searched a lot
<knome> amigamagic, you might be missing my point
<Unit193> Pretty sure.
<amigamagic> I don't know why but the serves keeps to disconnect me... Maybe he doesn't likes me. :P
<amigamagic> *serves = server
<amigamagic> maybe knome is kicking me out... :D
<amigamagic> updated wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Deja-Dup
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-27
<amigamagic> I didn't understand this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/DesktopLayoutProposal
<amigamagic> to me it looks like a draft and all the things that there are there, are already in the current 14.04 release
<gry> knome, remind me, what are you writing it off?
<Unit193> "they either lack some technical features we need, would produce really complex/overflowing UI, or cost something.  we need translators to have their own user role, and we want to only allow them translating.   also need to only show the languages they are able to translate, to them"
<amigamagic> Unit193, have you read my deja-dup specification? I just updated it with a simple use-case scenario.
<Unit193> Not yet, no.  I'm waiting until they are all layed out.
<amigamagic> what means they are all layed out?
<Unit193> gry: Right, didn't ping you for the quote, but that's what he said last time.
<gry> what is he writing the new site off? what cms? i understand it takes time, he needs more people who know some thing
<Unit193> Wordpress.
<Unit193> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/01/17/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t04:30 That's about where it started.
<Unit193> (I'm pointing at last time, because I don't think much progress has been made, and I don't know translations, being English only.)
<gry> i shouldve got knome to do it with gsoc, but i'm slow. it's a nice resource of development effort
<elfy> knome: re Processes - you worried about changes if they are just wording ? not actual changes to a process 
<elfy> eg - QA instead of testers
<knome> not really
<knome> and since you're the qa lead... just edit anything related to QA
<elfy> k - just checking - I didn't think you would :)
<elfy> yep
<knome> as long as it's not gobbledigook
<elfy> oh :|
<elfy> lol
<knome> -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO1eVQ5NSh0
<amigamagic> hi elfy, knome
<elfy> knome: I know that one :)
<elfy> hi amigamagic 
<knome> elfy, i have the special edition album + book, with my name printed on the book... :)
<elfy> :)
<amigamagic> elfy, I know you don't use backup systems, but by chance have you taken a look at my specification? :)
<elfy> I did give it a quick look - but not a proper one 
<elfy> amigamagic: you need to realise that what I might say isn't so much about me but about whether I think that something is worthwhile for all of *us*
<amigamagic> I hope you looked at the last version, not the very first
<elfy> I'd like bits of libreoffice - but I can understand why we don't :)
<elfy> or at least aren't worried enough to argue for it's inclusion
<amigamagic> but libreoffice is a completely different thing
<ali1234> i can't understand it really
<ali1234> i don't use libreoffice personally but abiword sucks
<ali1234> and so does gnumeric
<amigamagic> libreoffice is good, I always use on every machine, windows, osx, linux, etc.
<amigamagic> but I can understand if  you don't want to include it
<ali1234> exactly, it's the defacto standard
<amigamagic> in the default package
<amigamagic> but a basic system tool should always be included in a modern os distro
<ali1234> not always
<amigamagic> and today, a backup solution is a standard tool in a modern desktop os
<ali1234> it depends what the distro is trying to be
<ali1234> there is no sense in putting a backup tool in tails
<knome> ali1234, i'm reading more of "we should drop abiword and gnumeric" than "we should install libreoffice"
<amigamagic> of course it depends from the distro target
<ali1234> knome: well for me personally i'd be fine with that since i don't use any of them.
<ali1234> but if you ask what i think the majority of users would want, then i'd say libreoffice
<amigamagic> I'm starting to think that in your vision xubuntu should not have not ever a single application apart the basic system tools
<amigamagic> it's that its target?
<knome> ali1234, i agree it would be saner to just drop them than seed libreoffice instead
<elfy> I'm starting to think that you want a cross between windows and ubuntu
<amigamagic> a super-light distro with only the minimum essential?
<knome> amigamagic, read the strategy document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<Gryllida> libreoffice by default may be a poor idea
<amigamagic> elfy, windows don't come with an office suite installed
<ali1234> actually it does usually
<ali1234> but it is a trial version
<ali1234> you have to unlock it
<amigamagic> ali1234, those are the pc/notebook manufacturers, not windows itself
<ali1234> so you get the worst of both options
<ali1234> amigamagic: irrelevant. it's on there when you buy it
<amigamagic> ali1234, it's not always true.
<ali1234> well you can install manually install xubuntu as well and choose exactly what packages you want
<bluesabre> my new laptop came with no bloatware, but still had a trial microsoft office copy... but the trial software is not installed with a clean windows installation from disk
<amigamagic> And if you bought your os license and your pc, separately, you will have to install all the software you want.
<knome> hey bluesabre :
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> hey folks
<amigamagic> bluesabre, exactly
<amigamagic> it's that what I wanted to say
<knome> amigamagic, he just said he had the trial anyway
<amigamagic> "but the trial software is not installed with a clean windows installation from disk"
<knome> yes... but if the average person goes into the store, and buys a windows pc, do you think the first thing they do is reinstall windows?
<knome> or just start using it?
<amigamagic> knome, so basically, you are saying that libreoffice should stay in the default installation package.
<Gryllida> The installer should ask "Hi, you can install libreoffice, or abiword, or <whatever else the options are>".
<knome> amigamagic, "stay"? we're not seeding libreoffice.
<ali1234> Gryllida: unfortunately the gui installer does not work like that
<knome> well it can...
<ali1234> however you can do that and more with the expert mode installer
<knome> but i doubt if it would be worth asking
<amigamagic> knome, sorry for my english
<knome> if we ask that, everybody would just install libreoffice, or not install anything
<knome> well, generalized
<ali1234> right, and there's a good reason for that
<knome> those who want abiword or the other less known one know how to do that without an installer option as well
<knome> seeding libreoffice, even if it wasn't installed in the live session, would bump up the ISO size up quite a bit...
<Gryllida> The intent behind that was to make some people aware. If some advanced mode already exists and does this, it's okay.
<amigamagic> knome, sorry for my english
<ali1234> why is the xubuntu iso so damn big anyway?
<amigamagic> sorry, wrong repost :P
<Gryllida> It's not a problem, your English is good.
<bluesabre> it's a difficult decision to make really.  We can look at the relative success of elementary who do not ship any office suite in favor of having a good-looking os with quality software
<brainwash> quality software :)
<knome> ali1234, http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-goes-1gb-for-raring-gimp-and-gnumeric-are-back/
<ali1234> well then the question is do you want to compete with that head-on?
<ali1234> or offer something totally different to a different set of users?
<brainwash> how much additional space is required for libreoffice writer + calc + gtk?
<amigamagic> the question is: should xubuntu be a system ready for the average user from its very first start (I mean, with all the most used apps installed), or it should be only an elegant, easy to use system, polished, etc., but the generic user should install all the applications he usually uses (like libreoffice)?
<bluesabre> and it also depends on install regions... where is xubuntu installed, do users need the option of having libreoffice on the iso because they cannot download the large libreoffice package
<bluesabre> and do users in those remote regions need a full office suite?
<knome> and/or would they need more langpacks on the ISO
<brainwash> we are only talking about writer + calc
<bluesabre> that too
<knome> bluesabre, that pulls in base, which isn't too small.
<knome> err, brainwash 
<knome> brainwash, you can run tests with germinate
<brainwash> do we have any numbers?
<knome> no
<bluesabre> abiword and gnumeric might not be the greatest (or the prettiest), but they do get the job done
<amigamagic> I think abiword at least is better than the write in windows.
<bluesabre> and our iso size might start to suck.  we don't support the standard CD anymore, but lots of people might have a 1GB flash drive around
<bluesabre> bump the upper boundary to 2GB and that will make it less convenient for some
<ali1234> isn't there something else we could drop?
<ali1234> 1GB seems like a lot of xfce
<knome> ali1234, langpacks?
<knome> ali1234, we do have the ubuntu core.
<knome> ali1234, if you want to trim the size, please feel free to experiment
<elfy> bluesabre: it's not just flash size - but getting it in the first place
<ali1234> surely translations can't be that big... they are just text, no?
<bluesabre> one of the things we'd like to do is go python3 only, there are still a few python2 stragglers
<ali1234> that would be cool
<knome> "isn't there anything else to drop"
<knome> yes, gimp...
<bluesabre> but yeah, we ship gtk2 and gtk3, python2 and python3
<ali1234> and porting python apps is something i can do
<knome> but that's another thing people are clinging to
<knome> even if it is, to say the least, silly
<knome> i'd really love an alternative, but having went through the options several times, there isn't a good one
<amigamagic> Sometimes I think... And if there could be two version: a lighter one, with only the minimum essential (only english lang, etc.) that fits on a cd, and the BIG ONE, with all the all the whistles and bells...
<knome> amigamagic, you mean, like installing via the minimal ISO?
<amigamagic> yes
<bluesabre> but then we need twice as much iso testing
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> and quite often we are pretty minimal in our coverage
<knome> maintaining two versions would be insane
<knome> bluesabre, better than many other flavors, though
<ali1234> one thing i always wanted was more emphasis on dev tools
<elfy> bluesabre: and it's a massive struggle to get what we have tested enough
<bluesabre> yes
<ali1234> i always said manpages-dev should be in the defaults
<knome> ali1234, well, that's another issue... is xubuntu geared towards developers or users...
 * bluesabre considers a xubuntu-dev-tools metapackage
<knome> huhu
 * knome considers bluesabre getting some upload rights
 * bluesabre needs to work on some wikipage applications
<knome> i'm still available if you need hand with it
<amigamagic> if you have a basic minimal iso, and you test only that, what bad could do then, adding some big but standard packages like gimp and libreoffice in the big one? Really would it be so bad?
<elfy> amigamagic: what's your launchpad name? 
<bluesabre> oh yeah, knome, any idea why jackson was only able to get super-minimal upload rights?
<ali1234> knome: free software lives or dies by user-developers, so i believe all community built linux distributions should be developer first
<amigamagic> elfy, the username I think is debianmaverick
<bluesabre> I'd like to get rights to the entire xubuntu/xfce package sets
<amigamagic> ali1234, I would like "geany" as the default code editor already installed... :)
<amigamagic> it's a way lot better than gedit and it doesn't require all that gnome deps
<ali1234> that's why we have mousepad
<bluesabre> fedora xfce spin does geany by default, but I'd say its overkill
<bluesabre> mousepad is fantastic
<amigamagic> I don't remember who suggested me geany, but I thank him very much
<knome> seriously, stop proposing silly thing
<ali1234> text editor choice is a highly personal thing
<knome> +s
<knome> i'd like inkscape in the default installation
<knome> and virtualbox
<amigamagic> knome, me too
<knome> and a very minimalistic panel applet
<knome> but most of our users don't
<amigamagic> knome, "most of our users" should have a word in all this... We are not them
<amigamagic> how we can do that?
<bluesabre> there's really no sane way to do it
<ali1234> well, asking them won't work
<bluesabre> our most vocal users are internet users, and most of them cry out for libreoffice
<elfy> amigamagic: and getting people involved in a sensible discussion just ends up with a load of 'someone else does it' - which isn't helpul 
<bluesabre> but that's such a small subset
<knome> we haven't got too much negativity for our application choices, so we're doing something right
<elfy> yep
<knome> we're also getting generally good reviews, so we're doing something more right
<knome> ultimately, free software is about freedom, and that includes installing what you want
<knome> the defaults are just... sane defaults
<amigamagic> we would need a poll like: "Do you want libreoffice as default app installed in xubuntu"?
<ali1234> btw... i installed ubuntu-desktop^ and ubuntu-sdk and it totally messed up my whole system
<amigamagic> but I'm sure 90% of the users would respond: YES, we want it
<bluesabre> but polls don't reach enough of our users
<bluesabre> and they tend to be one-sided
<elfy> amigamagic: if we have a poll then it has to have the negative side - ie - the download is now 'this much bigger with lo'
<amigamagic> elfy, you could put that in the poll
<elfy> you could
<amigamagic> like: "you want libreoffice and a big download" or "don't want libreoffice, small download"
<amigamagic> so no one can complain
<amigamagic> :D
<elfy> I'm still of the opinion that we have sane defaults - if people want something else - they can install it
<amigamagic> but what is  a "sane default"? There is some spec somewhere?
<elfy> amigamagic: I'd complain - I don't want ALL of libreoffice - I ONLY want calc and writer
<amigamagic> elfy, yeah, me too want only calc and writer
<bluesabre> bbiab
<elfy> anyway - I've had enough of this conversation now 
<amigamagic> and I don't understand why we are talking of libreoffice, when I wanted to talk of a backup system... :lol:
<amigamagic> but at the end, I know, it's all my fault... :D
<amigamagic> btw I think would be a very good feature for reviewers to have a distro with a good default backup system well integrated in the system.
<amigamagic> they would give more points to it
<amigamagic> and a backup system is a basic small tool, it's not libreoffice or gimp...
<knome> amigamagic, you should read the log behind the link i pasted to ali1234 as well
<knome> we pretty much shouldn't add stuff to the ISO because "we like it" and "it is small"
<knome> if we don't think our users need it, keep it out
<amigamagic> so why MS, Apple and Canonical think that a default backup system should be always present in a os, and we don't?
<knome> tell me that.
<amigamagic> maybe for the same motivations I wrote here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Deja-Dup
<elfy> wiki is connecting through Sway Treacle Mines again 
<amigamagic> I think noone read my spec after the first three rows... :(
<knome> amigamagic, people are exhausted after the release
<knome> elfy, not connecting at all for me :P
<knome> bbl, guests coming in soonish ->
<elfy> yep - I get a 500 
<amigamagic> there is a use-case in the bottom of the specs... Maybe I should put it on top?
<knome> (ack, same here)
<knome> -->
<elfy> have a good day knome 
<knome> you to!!
<knome> *too
<knome> :P
<knome> --->
<knome> (really off now)
<elfy> yep - kind of wandering a bit today - cya 
<amigamagic> bye knome :)
<amigamagic> don't you thing this should be deleted or, at least, heavily updated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/DesktopLayoutProposal ?
<ochosi> afternoon evryone
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy
<ochosi> what's up?
<elfy> watching really old sci-fi cos I want to stay in the warm and dry :)
<ochosi> heh, sounds like fun
<elfy> thinking about the package tracker 
<bluesabre> that sounds not fun
<ochosi> :}
<elfy> bluesabre: it's better than the other job I'm doing 
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, any progress on the light-locker bugs?
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> haven't been around too much this week
<bluesabre> same
<bluesabre> I'm hoping knome can go comment on the gnome-menus bug
<bluesabre> In the meantime, I've been making some slow progress at my own menu parser
<ochosi> holy crap :)
<ochosi> is the other one so buggy?
<bluesabre> It crashes, which causes alacarte and menulibre to segfault
<bluesabre> and once it gets to that point, it stays there
<bluesabre> but I cannot recreate it
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> that sucks
<bluesabre> but knome can :D
<bluesabre> so I've decided to go my own route for menulibre 2.1/2.2 and eliminate the middle man
<ochosi> sounds like "fun"
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> the other apps don't have such critical bugs, need to do a minor release for mugshot
<bluesabre> other than that, we can start with utopic at any time
<ochosi> yeah, i actually have a few ideas i wanted to pitch in U
<elfy> awesome 
<elfy> I hope :p
<elfy> but we'll not test it if it's too late :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: can you reproduce the light-locker bug too?
<ochosi> i mean the critical one
<bluesabre> which one?
<bluesabre> and no
<bluesabre> light-locker works perfectly for me
<ochosi> oh, rly? lid-close+suspend works fine?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> let me check to make sure its still good
<bluesabre> what currently happens?
<elfy> you have to restart lightdm to get to desktop
<ochosi> it comes back from suspend
<ochosi> then lightdm-gtk-greeter lets you unlock
<ochosi> and then you end up at a blank screen
<bluesabre> k, lemme check
<bluesabre> all is well
<bluesabre> using nvidia-prime
<bluesabre> and no other non-free components
<ochosi> hm
<bluesabre> I do need to authenticate to mount my dvd drive when it starts back
<ochosi> did you close the lid?
<bluesabre> so I should report that today
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> hmm
<bluesabre> lid close, laptop suspends, lid open, laptop wakes, login, back to where I was
<bluesabre> and I installed from the final iso, so this is all current stuff
<ochosi> right
<elfy> I still have the same issue with a new clean install 
<elfy> not nvidia though 
<ochosi> that' [Ds"kinda" good news, so it's maybe hardware dependent
<ochosi> i also nhave nvidia and i get the bug
<bluesabre> might be a race condition
<ochosi> i need to test whether it works when i kill xfce4-powermanager
<ochosi> cause then logind should handle the lid and suspending
<ochosi> and light-locker should listen to the lock-signal
<ochosi> if that works, we'd have to inhibit systemd inhibition on lid-actions
<ochosi> or: if lid-close = suspend
<elfy> so - 2 with nvidia - 1 has bug, 1 without, 1 with intel with the bug between the 3 of us
<ochosi> testing this now, brb
<bluesabre> I can try with the intel card today at some point
<bluesabre> yay gpu switching
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> so without xfpm it doesn't lock
<bluesabre> yup
<brainwash> problem solved :)
<ochosi> nah :)
<ochosi> i need to restart light-locker by hand
<elfy> and without xfpm but suspending from menu it does need password
<ochosi> cause lls prevents ll from locking when xfpm and session aer there
<brainwash> o.O
<ochosi> elfy: but suspending from the menu doesn't produce that error anyway
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> testing that now, brb
<brainwash> the vt switch is the problem
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> i just tested it and it works
<ochosi> xfpm is the problem
<ochosi> without xfpm suspending with lid-close works like a breeze with light-locker
<brainwash> vt switch on wake up is not the problem
<brainwash> but xfpm calls xflock4 -> ll before suspend
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe your light-locker config is still "old" in the desktop file and it launches without "no-lock-on-suspend", hence it works
<bluesabre> currently running: light-locker --lock-after-screensaver=0 --no-lock-on-suspend --no-late-locking
<ochosi> hmright
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> it should more or less consistently break was what i had thought 
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, that's why i think ideally xfpm shouldn't handle lid-close when it's set to suspend and lock-on-suspend is on
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> lock-on-suspend was disabled in my lls
<ochosi> but it'll then need to tell light-locker to handle the locking..
<bluesabre> one sec
 * ochosi scratches head
<bluesabre> interestingly, I cannot seem to disable lock-on-suspend
<ochosi> i guess because light-Ãlocker handles it after all?
<bluesabre> does xfpm not apply settings immediately?
<bluesabre> or... does it not get the updated settings without using its gui?
<brainwash> ochosi: did you already test if calling the lock function on wake up works fine?
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> cannot disable lock-on-suspend at all
<ochosi> brainwash: that's what i'm trying to do now
<ochosi> bluesabre: killall light-locker and start it again with "--no-lock-on-suspend"
<ochosi> but first disable it in lls
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test re-uploaded xfpm with lock on wake up
<ochosi> brainwash: oh, i actually just did the patch locally :D
<ochosi> can i see your diff?
<ochosi> i just shuffled one "if" in xfpm_power_sleep in power.c
<brainwash> I've uploaded it to test it on a friend's machine
<ochosi> did it work?
<brainwash> not tested yet :/
<ochosi> ok, so let me see the diff before installing :)
<brainwash> it's just moving the if block...
<brainwash> like you've said
<brainwash> no magic involved
<ochosi> to before or after the WAKING_UP signal?
<ochosi> (i'm trying immediately before the waking-up signal now, just to see whether it'll really mess things p)
<brainwash> http://lpaste.net/103262
<bluesabre> anything useful here?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7345261/
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, that would have been my first guess too. but it could be that you have to move it after line 34
<ochosi> bluesabre: "systemd requested session lock"
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> too many systems at play here
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> I really like the new unity lock screen (ignoring all the mess under the hood)
<bluesabre> brainwash: me too
<brainwash> so light-locker without vt switch would be awesome
<ochosi> it will be
<bluesabre> I wonder if the systemd-ification is going to make utopic painful
<bluesabre> good news is that all that upstart work we did means nothing for U
<bluesabre> :\
<ochosi> yeah, we'll see
<ochosi> no idea what it'll involve
<brainwash> upstart can still manage user jobs :)
<ochosi> my guess is we should try pitti's PPAs early enough
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I need to start pushing for upload rights now-ish
<bluesabre> got some writing to do this evening
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> oook
<ochosi> brainwash: tested that solution now...
<ochosi> so it does work, with the drawback of showing the running session for 2secs
<ochosi> or actually less than 2secs here
<ochosi> depending on how quick wake-up is i guess
<brainwash> did you remove the 2 sec sleep?
<ochosi> we should try to cut it down to 1sec or so
<ochosi> oddly enough i can't build the powerman version from 14.04 locally
<ochosi> i get a builderror
<ochosi> so i used your ppa
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> yeah, showing the desktop is bad
<ochosi> we could lower the sleeptime
<ochosi> or remove it and hope it's there for no good reason
<brainwash> I already removed it
<ochosi> wanna push it through the PPA again? or just upload the deb some place
<brainwash> see http://lpaste.net/103262
<bluesabre> if it goes to the ppa, you'll have to wait a bit for it
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> I moved the sleep call
<bluesabre> it's been a rough month apparently
<bluesabre> so many starbucks and ice cream receipts
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure moving the sleep is any good
<ochosi> either drop it or don't move it
<ochosi> i guess though that it was there in order not to interfere with any suspend-related stuff
<ochosi> so on wakeup it shouldn't matter (hopefully)
<ochosi> let's try removing it
<ochosi> so if you can quickly rebuild and upload the deb somewhere i can test it
<brainwash> but now there is a 1 sec sleep after the lock call
<brainwash> so it should not matter
<ochosi> yeah, but it's silly :)
<ochosi> anyway
<ochosi> whatever deb you have..
<bluesabre> (remember to remove your local-install)
<brainwash> or let ll always perform late-locking
<brainwash> 2-step locking I mean
<ochosi> how will that help?
<ochosi> 2step locking?
<brainwash> lock the session (black screen with lock icon) and after mouse/keyboard interaction switch vt
<brainwash> the greeter should not blank the screen in this case
<brainwash> otherwise the user needs to move the mouse twice
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> I want to modify that functionality
<bluesabre> and have the greeter not turn off the display until 10-30 seconds after lock is activated
<bluesabre> another configurable option most likely
<bluesabre> since it makes late-locking annoying :)
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> well we talked about this before
<ochosi> late-locking should probably change that option in the greeter
<ochosi> as it's optional, it would be possible
<ochosi> so the functionality by itself is fine imo
<ochosi> i think for 14.04.1, we want a simple fix for the lid-close issue and keep the rest as is
<ochosi> problem with the greeter is that it's systemwide and lock-preferences are per user
<ochosi> so it can never know what is right, cause it depends on which user locks (with which preferences)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I was talking about things to consider for u
<ochosi> yup, for u we should rethink the default
<ochosi> but the basic problem can only be resolved with light-locker 2.0
<ochosi> really wonder why i keep getting this
<ochosi> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `gsd-media-keys-window.c', needed by `xfce4_power_manager-gsd-media-keys-window.o'.  Stop.
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> apt-get build-dep gnome-screensaver
<bluesabre> oh, power manager
<bluesabre> build-dep not working there?
<bluesabre> also, apt-get source xfce4-power-manager
<bluesabre> and look at debian/control and debian/rules to see how we're building it
<ochosi> not a depends problem
<ochosi> configure runs fine
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh --enable-maintainer-mode
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> rebuilding the package also failed, cause there were "unexpected changes"
<ochosi> even though i ran debchange -i to add a new version string
<ochosi> heh, with maintainer-mode i get a different build problem
<ochosi> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `org.xfce.unique.xml', needed by `org.xfce.unique.h'.  Stop.
<ochosi> this is getting too tedious
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre> yeah, unexpected changes usually means the extracted code differs from the tarball
<bluesabre> solutions there are: 1) quilt patch (good), 2) resave the tarball (okay for testing)
<elfy> well 14.04 at least boots with systemd .. 
<brainwash> hooray
<amigamagic> someone could tell me what this is for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/DesktopLayoutProposal ?
<elfy> it's a spec that someone left there 
<amigamagic> to me it looks like adraft of a spec...
<amigamagic> and all the things that are proposed for 14.10 are already in 14.04
<sergio-br2> hey
<sergio-br2> someone knows a web-link that explains how to add app info in software center? like screenshots, developer website...
<sergio-br2> hum, found it
<bluesabre> back
<elfy> welcome back then :)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: btw, i'm -1 on creating our own firefox icon for now. i don't like the one linked to enough (yet)
<sergio-br2> one that fits better with elementary? sounds good
<sergio-br2> thunderbird is other that does not fits well
<ochosi> yeah, but the one linked to doesn't have a really nice fox
<bluesabre> agreed, firefox is not bad, thunderbird does not fit
<ochosi> (in the issue on github)
<Unit193> Link?
<bluesabre> Ganondorf?
<bluesabre> (I'd like a link too)
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/issues/59
<sergio-br2> ahh, it's a issue
<sergio-br2> cool
<ochosi> yup, that's what i said before :p
<Unit193> Ah, yeah.  Like stock better.
<ochosi> well a new ff icon isn't un-doable, but i think it'd have to be a different/nicer one
<sergio-br2> (and someone is using our icon theme :)  )
<ochosi> and i still have sooo many LO icons to do...
<ochosi> well sure thing ppl are using it
<sergio-br2> ihmo, this fox is too flat (in the top)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and the gradient is a bit too simplistic
<bluesabre> this ones not so bad http://seahorsepip.deviantart.com/art/Firefox-elementary-icon-183301125
<sergio-br2> yeah, much better
<bluesabre> still more tango than elementary though
<ochosi> bluesabre: reviewed the latest lightdm-gtk-greeter MR yet?
<bluesabre> nope
<ochosi> yeah, the colors are too tango-esque
<ochosi> they'd have to be changed a bit i guess
<bluesabre> though I personally love tango
<ochosi> yeah, but it's a different palette
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> anyway, i also agree we could ship chrome/ium icons
<ochosi> just need ppl to work on it
<ochosi> sergio-br2: btw, are you working on a branch atm or are you idling?
<sergio-br2> nope
<sergio-br2> i'm working in other project :)
<sergio-br2> vba-m
<bluesabre> ooh
<ochosi> right, well if you feel like scaling e.g. the LO appicons to the remaining (larger) sizes... ;)
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> i still need to scaling webapps
<ochosi> sure, but the webapps are a potentially unfinishable project
<ochosi> there are so many...
<sergio-br2> ok, so when i'm back, i will see LO
<ochosi> cool, ty
<ochosi> i'll try to get on with a few more mime-sizes tomorrow
<ochosi> bluesabre: the MR sounded like we want it in 14.04 along with the focus fix
<bluesabre> right, I'll try to get to it today
<bluesabre> relaxing a bit before I help my wife with her next photo shoot in an hour
<ochosi> wow, many photoshoots on the weekends lately, eh?
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> yeah, my wife has actually taken her business to fulltime as of this week
<bluesabre> going to part-time at a local restaurant
<elfy> sounds good then :)
<amigamagic> someone knows what means "@selected_bg_color" in the theme file xfce-panel.rc for greybird? I mean, what all those "@" are for? I would like to change the colours in the theme... I just have to change those "@something" with "#112233" ?
<brainwash> amigamagic: see gtkrc, first few lines
<amigamagic> ah perfect, brainwash thanks! :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-20
<pleia2> there, did team reports finally (hadn't done any since December, oops)
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning
<ochosi> hm, the tracker doesn't look too bad
<elfy> ochosi: nope - nothing there that's unexpected :)
<elfy> apart from a new name \o/ 
<ochosi> a new name?
<ochosi> you mean a new tester?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> good to see how the tester-situation has improved over this cycle
<ochosi> our initiatives were not in vain, it seems
<elfy> it's getting there for sure
<krytarik> bluesabre: LP bug 1446259.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1446259 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "German (DE) translation not included in installed package in vivid" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446259
<micahg> someone need an upload?
<micahg> krytarik: ^^
<krytarik> micahg: Yes, that'd be us - xubuntu-docs, please. :)
<slickymasterWork> pretty please also micahg ;)
 * micahg wonders why bzr tags aren't being used regularly...
<micahg> I'm taking a look at the changes now
 * micahg thinks he needs more coffee before reading make files
<slickymasterWork> lol micahg, blame krytarik 
 * genii makes a fresh pot of high-octane coffee and passes the mugs around
<micahg> thanks genii :)
<genii> Heh, any time!
 * drc wonders why someone doesn't invent a coffee hookah?
<micahg> krytarik: new line 38 replaces the TRANSLATIONS variable as opposed to what old line 27 did, is that what is supposed to happen? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/vivid/revision/361/Makefile#Makefile
<krytarik> micahg: In both of those, the TRANSLATIONS variable is set - however, with the new one it's not expanded immediately - that's basically the fix.
<micahg> right, ook
<micahg> can I assume we want to include the new translations updates as well
<slickymasterWork> yes you can micahg 
<krytarik> micahg: There is nothing new today so far though.
<slickymasterWork> what about that string in ES krytarik?
<slickymasterWork> The one about mentioning the risks of password reuse more clearly that sidi reworded 
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: Trickled in with this morning's sync already - along with some FR stuff.
<slickymasterWork> ooh, ok
 * slickymasterWork will have to create a spreadsheet to keep tags of krytarik's daily doings 
<slickymasterWork> knome did you forget https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+translate?show=untranslated
<slickymasterWork> elfy, in your opinion is bug 1445622 sufficient to mark a Live Test as failed?
<ubottu> bug 1445622 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Trash directory unable to be found" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445622
<elfy> nope
<micahg> krytarik: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10857109/
<slickymasterWork> my thoughts exactly 
<micahg> ok, will finish review and upload after coffee
<flexiondotorg> elfy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1443525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1443525 in ubuntu-mate "liblibsmb segfaults browsing Windows Shares with Caja or Nautilus" [Undecided,New]
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Does that affect Xubuntu?
<pleia2> knome: thanks, I'll post to other social medias
<knome> pleia2, cheers
<knome> slickymasterWork, no, i just didn't get to it yet
<slickymasterWork> I was sure you wouldn't forget it knome 
<knome> i can likely handle it now...
<slickymasterWork> great knome 
<elfy> flexiondotorg: no idea - no way to tell either
<elfy> slickymasterWork: imo - if a file was still after rebooting a livesession - that might be sufficient to mark something
<slickymasterWork> well that was on a live session
<elfy> yes - but it wasn't there when it rebooted
<slickymasterWork> I passed the test but did marked the bug
<elfy> yep
<knome> slickymasterWork, pushed a new revision with the updated translation
<slickymasterWork> great knome, everything is now as it should be :) 
<slickymasterWork> elfy what is the bug number for the the "vivid  fails to shutdown or reboot at end of installation when "reboot now" issue?
<elfy> 1445587
<slickymasterWork> danka
<elfy> fix commited, so I'll be expecting a rebuild soonish
<slickymasterWork> not just yet :P
<slickymasterWork> micahg if you haven't upload yet, can you please take in consideration -> [18:42] <knome> slickymasterWork, pushed a new revision with the updated translation
<slickymasterWork> so the FI translation would be 100% translated
<micahg> ok, will do
<slickymasterWork> great, thanks for that
<micahg> hrm, I'm not seeing any difference in the languages updated between the builds, but I am seeing the new German files
<krytarik> micahg: Yeah, they're currently in an automatic import loop. :P
<elfy> well that's all the uprades and installs with at least a smoketest done now
<elfy> looking good for rebuilds and the tracker being empty next :)
<micahg> ok, I guess I'll upload what we have as it fixes the critical bug
<elfy> hi micahg 
<micahg> sorry, was using wrong tool to check the file size differences
<micahg> hi elfy 
<micahg> krytarik: any reason not to upload
<krytarik> micahg: No, why would there? :)
<micahg> idk :), ok, pushing the button, I'll also have a merge for the updated changelog
<krytarik> Yep, thanks.
<krytarik> micahg: Oh, because we were moving target this evening - no, should be all now. :P
<micahg> https://code.launchpad.net/~micahg/xubuntu-docs/15.04.2-changelog/+merge/256856
<krytarik> slickymaster: ^
<astraljava> elfy: ochosi: I'm thinking that my HDD is just incredibly slow. Otherwise the installation seems to progress in a fairly expected way, but when it starts copying files, it grinds nearly to a halt. Still, I'm expecting this to finish in about an hour, if the progress bar holds true.
<elfy> astraljava: thanks :)
<ochosi> astraljava: right, sounds like "fun"
<ochosi> i presume you're not using this laptop for anything else
<elfy> not currently ... 
<astraljava> Other than listening to music on Spotify, and chatting here, no. 
<astraljava> I even reinstalled virtualbox packages, and did a fresh dist-upgrade, with a reboot prior to starting this. So it's as good as it can be. :)
<astraljava> The playlist I'm listening to is stored offline, so it's not using network for that. I do presume it still polls for some other operations, though, but probably not in intervening amounts.
<astraljava> Not all RAM is used, and none in swap.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Are there any thunar fixes we should backport to vivid?
<astraljava> Okay, well it seems to work nicely now after all. Thanks for your patience and assistance! :)
<knome> eh.
<knome> this is why i never upgrade via the GUI
<knome> now something is or isn't happening and i have no clue, since the GUI is gone.
<knome> astraljava, did you upgrade the way the iso tracker told to?
<astraljava> Upgrade? You mean after the installation?
<knome> oh, i thought you were doing an upgrade
<knome> nvm
<astraljava> I'm not exactly doing this by the tracker books, as I gathered those tests were already concluded, no?
<knome> nooo.
<astraljava> Oh.
<astraljava> So you mean I should report this?
<knome> well depends on your ISO
<knome> most likely yes
<astraljava> It's desktop i386 straight install.
<knome> from which day?
<astraljava> Nothing fancy.
<astraljava> jaska@glencoyne:~/Documents/Xubuntu/images 00:11:26 $ ll
<astraljava> total 994308
<astraljava> -rw-rw-r-- 1 jaska audio 1018167296 Apr 18 00:20 vivid-desktop-i386.iso
<astraljava> So it's quite dated.
<knome> 20150417.1
<astraljava> Is that good?
<knome> that's the current target
<astraljava> Ok, I'll check the tracker, then.
<knome> it's most likely good
<astraljava> After the vm done updating initramfs... *sigh*
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Yeah, it's much swifter this way, fresh after a reboot, but it's still not fun per se.
<knome> per se indeed
<astraljava> *smirk*
<slickymaster> thanks micahg 
<slickymaster> oh and btw micahg, the bzr tags weren't use, in this case, because unusually the bug just got filed after the fix have been commited
<Unit193> So the changelog for xubuntu-docs was fixed, no?
<Unit193> Good, it was.
<bluesabre> thanks for picking that up micahg :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: as far as I know, we've picked up the major one at least
<bluesabre> Unit193: hola
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<Unit193> Uhh, compared to last week?  Well enough.  You?
<Unit193> Got too much stuff I don't want to do.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I can relate to that
<micahg> bluesabre: sure, np
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: ah, only just noticed that there was a new thunar release... well that may change my answer :)
<knome> there seems to be some wonkyness in lightdm, probably related to the dualmonitor setup
<knome> i'll have to investigate this later when i have better time and am less tired
<knome> it seems unrelated to the upgrade itself though, so not noted anything about that there
<knome> (everything *works*, just not perfectly)
<knome> bluesabre, you ever had a fast blinking cursor on lightdm?
<knome> i believe it's loading something
<knome> it might be doing some race conditions
<knome> the dual-monitor layout is not correct when it first loads (eg. mouse wraps to right monitor when i drag it over the left border of the left monitor)
<knome> then it does that blinking/twitching
<knome> and then resets to the right layout with the user-specific wallpaper
<bluesabre> knome: I've heard of a completely white screen issue which goes away by clicking or specifying a default monitor
<knome> nope, not that
<knome> i can see the default plymouth wallpaper
<knome> and the login box and more
<knome> the layout is just wrong
<ali1234> what video driver?
<knome> and - i'm not sure abuot this - but it's possible i can't type before this loading has happened
<knome> nvidia
<ali1234> proprietary?
<knome> yes
<ali1234> and you have a xorg.conf which contains your monitor layout?
<knome> i've tried both with and without it
<ali1234> does the wrong layout persist after login?
<knome> no, it is correct after it has done that twitching thing, as i've said
<ali1234> what if you log in fast? ;)
<knome> what if i can't type before it has loaded the right layout?
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> the last time i saw wrong layout in lightdm it was caused by gsettingsd
<ali1234> what happens is that xorg uses xorg.conf if it exists, but gsettingsd will attempt to load the user's layout from monitors.xml
<ali1234> if it cant do that it will reset the layout to defaults, which are probably wrong
<knome> likely...
<ali1234> i cannot explain how the layout could be wrong when it loads up but then gets corrected
<ali1234> because xorg always uses xorg.conf... obviously
<ali1234> and things like gsettingsd only load up afterwards
<knome> i mean, my right hand side is connected to the first port (whatever that means), so i guess that's the first guess for the leftmost one
<ali1234> but perhaps if your xorg.conf is wrong (maybe gpu-manager deleted it again?) but your monitors.xml is right... that could be the cause
<ali1234> no, it does not matter which port things are connected to
<knome> well i also tested without a xorg.conf
<ali1234> nvidia doesn't work like that. the default layout is determined by the type of monitor connected
<ali1234> which is stupid because it means the monitor used for the bios is fixed regardless of which port you connect your monitors to
<ali1234> but there's nothing we can do about that
<ali1234> so... if you have no xorg.conf, what layout do you get?
<knome> both xorg.conf and the gsettingsd conf (if that's what the xfce display dialog handles) are correct
<ali1234> no, xfce display dialog does not use gsettings
<ali1234> which is why the idea of gsettings always trying to load monitors.xml is so roken
<ali1234> because gsettings doesn't even load in xfce, but lightdm loads it for a few things
<ali1234> and it tries to reset your monitor layout by default
<ali1234> i reported a bug about this ages ago and i think it was fixed
<ali1234> i will try to find it
<ali1234> bug 1283615
<ubottu> bug 1283615 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon trashes monitor config" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283615
<ali1234> so i discovered that ug because i ran unity-greeter to test something instead of gtk-greeter
<micahg> BTW, someone will have to poke the release team to get the new xubuntu-docs accepted and then respin ISOs (can we do our own respins?)
<ali1234> gsettingsd actually has modules for various things, and monitor layout is one of them
<ali1234> lightdm doesn't load the monitor layout plugin, iirc
<ali1234> sorry, gtk-greeter doesn't
<bluesabre> micahg: yeah, I think me, ochosi, and elfy can respin
<ali1234> but unity-greeter doesnt specify modules
<knome> and me, but for other reasons...
<bluesabre> and knome
<knome> i'll leave it to you ;)
<knome> bluesabre, again it should be everybody in ~xubuntu-release
<bluesabre> I can poke, but usually I get ignored until I go to work ;)
<bluesabre> knome, yup
<micahg> anything else need to be uploaded or fixed before release?
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-release/+members#active
<knome> ali1234, thanks for the insight... i got to look at this with better time and eyes x.x
<bluesabre> micahg: I think we're in good shape as far as I can tell
<micahg> ok
<ali1234> this all might be a red herring. what i saw was pretty much the exact opposite of what you are seeing
<bluesabre> there are things to upload, but not this late in the game :)
<knome> ali1234, yeah, i will figure out what it is what's actually happening
<bluesabre> knome: report a bug against gtk-greeter, andrew p did change quite a few things with monitor handling in the last release
<knome> in the worst case, i guess i can create a monitors.xml file (if that's supposed to fix this)
<knome> bluesabre, when i've looked at it, i will
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'm going to go goof off for a bit, then come back and hack on xfce stuff
<knome> hf goofing
<bluesabre> will do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5wNX_mIraA
<knome> lol, that was my mental image, literally...
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-21
<elfy> images rebuilding 
<micahg> elfy: I don't see the package accepted
<elfy> package? 
<micahg> xubuntu-docs
<micahg> still in unapproved
<Unit193> elfy: So did you want me to change the topic to something specific, btw?
<elfy> Unit193: not atm 
<Unit193> Oh, you can yourself, nevermind.
<elfy> I think knome sorted that for me 
<elfy> yea
<elfy> micahg: didn't catch all of the backlog obviously - I was rebuilding because ubiquity
<micahg> ok
<micahg> well, it's getting down to the wire :)
<micahg> ok, off to sleep for me
<elfy> is there a link to the x-d package unapproved I can put in the channel 
<micahg> the link links you to the source changes file I think
<elfy> or ochosi or bluesabre can ping that channel about it 
<Unit193> micahg: G'night.
<micahg> I think bluesabre said he'd ask in the morning
<elfy> ok
<micahg> was more of an FYI for your testing
<elfy> ok
<micahg> Unit193: night
<elfy> micahg: night :)
<Unit193> elfy: We're likely doing nothing new and silly for core in Wombat, right?
<micahg> elfy: morning :)
<elfy> :D
<astraljava> elfy: I checked the tracker, and I didn't encounter any other bugs than what were already filed. To my surprise, the system was fairly swift once running. It sort of troubles me why the HDD operations take that long during installation, but not really afterwards.
<elfy> Unit193: not that I know of 
<astraljava> But I'm not all that bothered. :p
<elfy> astraljava: thanks for running it - and who knows :)
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<elfy> Unit193: tbh I think that what we have there is what is right for what it is :)
<elfy> imho 
<Unit193> Right, doesn't need more than what it has.  I guess I was wondering about ISOs, and them being a silly idea.
<elfy> oh right
<Unit193> Seems like a lot more to test and support, sooo.  Nope.
<elfy> well
<elfy> it'd likely get tested as much as core does now - regardless of what it was
<elfy> also - we could (if it was iso) make it optional 
<elfy> only time I'm particularly concerned about how much something is tested is when we need to mark ready
<Unit193> Meh, core/mini is always a moving target, never "released" or "ready", so shouldn't hang on that.
<elfy> personally I quite like the idea of it being an iso - smoketest core - 2 hours, smoketest 8 iso's 2 hours
<Unit193> (Though the mini itself isn't rebuilt, all packages are just downloaded.)
<Unit193> Hah, well that. :P
<elfy> and dailies are a moving target too :)
<Unit193> Right, but eventually Xubuntu is released for 15.04.
<elfy> so - any real reasons behind not doing a cyclical core? 
<elfy> so - for future - request a rebuild to available ~45 minutes
<Unit193> We'd be adding a new ISO.  I'm not even sure how to do that.  I wouldn't see any reason apart from the whole testing standpoint.
<elfy> oh dear
<elfy> live session doesn't start now
<Unit193> Oi.
<elfy> sigh
<Unit193> (Downloading now.)
<elfy> pnged -release about that 
<elfy> installs 
<elfy> just fails to reach desktop in live - both vm types I've got here
<Unit193> elfy:32bit works in vbox.
<Unit193> Hung on powering down, but still.
<Unit193> Unapproved: accepted xubuntu-docs [source] (vivid-proposed) [15.04.2]
<elfy> I've dashed in -dashing out, if someone can ping the right channel to get those -docs approved, we can rebuild - seems that pitti spotted the issue with the live
<elfy> Unit193: thanks for looking at the 32 bit
<Unit193> I may have managed to boot so I didn't see the issue.  I don't know.
<slickymasterWork> which -docs are you talking about elfy?
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/15.04.2
<Unit193> elfy: Next rebuild will catch it.
<slickymasterWork> oh, ok
<slickymasterWork> I think you're right Unit193 
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: https://launchpad.net/~slickymaster-d
<Unit193> I know I'm right. :P
<slickymasterWork> lol 
 * slickymasterWork wasn't trying to insinuate otherwise
<bluesabre> looks like xubuntu-docs is published in release now
<slickymasterWork> yeaps bluesabre \o/
<bluesabre> I've never requested a rebuild, does hitting the button rebuild for everyone or go to another screen?
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/hcyslUC.png
<bluesabre> knome, elfy, ochosi ^ ?
<knome> i think it just rebuilds
<bluesabre> so, I should poke -release before pressing in case they want to rebuild something in 5 minutes then
<knome> i guess so
<knome> of course you don't need to rebuild for the WHOLE world
<knome> and i don't think i can ;)
<bluesabre> yeah, the shiny button needs more descriptive text :)
<knome> yep
<knome> mention that in #ubuntu-quality and ping balloons :)
<knome> upgrading laptop to vivid
<bluesabre> watching ubuntu-quality
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> seems like there are still ubiquity issues being sorted out
<knome> mm
<bluesabre> I'll leave the rebuild for elfy later today if it doesn't happen before we tell it to
<knome> okie
<bluesabre> always amazing how things come down to the last few days/hours
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> yep
<knome> and otoh, not so amazing..
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> hi everyone
<knome> hullo
<astraljava> o/
<knome> even astraljava!
<slickymasterWork> o/
<knome> ooh, slickymasterWork!
<slickymasterWork> yes, he's around
<astraljava> I don't seem to have Xubuntu meetings in the calendar. Is it because there aren't any scheduled, or am I a dummy?
<astraljava> Release date is there, though.
<knome> those two aren't either/or though
<astraljava> And EOL for 12.04.
<astraljava> Oh, that may be so.
<knome> astraljava, but, no meeting is scheduled
<astraljava> Ok
<knome> we have this cycling chair thing now, so it's not always on the same day or time
<astraljava> Right.
<astraljava> Oh yeah, there's the Xubuntu Team, should I apply to join? I forget these things.
<knome> but otoh it means every team member can attend meetings at least now and then, and spreads the responsibilities
<knome> not yet
<astraljava> Tomorrow?
<knome> hah
<astraljava> If that's all you got, then I'm gonna keep asking.
<knome> no, when your contributions are sustained :)
<astraljava> Oh ok, thanks. :)
<knome> you'll likely get more slack since you're coming back
<astraljava> Well, I'm in no hurry.
<knome> yeah
<knome> the only way the team votes make a difference is that it isn't trivial to join it
<knome> not to keep it exclusive, but something that has some long-time value
<knome> for the decisions, mostly
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Team
<knome> ^ the stratgy document is much shorter and easier to read nowadays.
<astraljava> Thanks, I need to do some reading to get back on track.
<knome> simply put:
<knome> contribute to a subteam first
<knome> after sustained contribution, you will get team membership more or less "automatically"
<astraljava> Gotcha, cheers!
<knome> ok, booting, brb
<bluesabre> o/
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hmm. is it normal that the battery icon isn't symbolic in vivid? :P
<knome> well it's symbolic, but seems to be the wrong kind
<knome> the other indicator icons are white, the battery icon is dark
<astraljava> Screen shot?
<knome> just a sec
<bluesabre> knome: not normal, and not seeing here
<knome> also my notes plugin was dropped from the panel layout during the upgrade
<bluesabre> knome: just open notes and it should add itself back
<knome> aha
<knome> well i already readded it
<knome> is there a bug for that?
<bluesabre> dunno
<bluesabre> probably not
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/Screenshot_2015-04-21_14-34-22.png
<bluesabre> whats your panel height?
<knome> 24
<bluesabre> weird
<knome> changing that doesn't affect the power icon
<knome> it's the same for all sizes
<bluesabre> ochosi: pling
<ochosi> bluesabre: pong
<bluesabre> ochosi: see above ;)
<ochosi> a-ha, how did you get there?
<knome> ochosi, upgraded utopic->vivid
<ochosi> i mean upgrade/clean install
<knome> ochosi, bam.
<bluesabre> knome drops the mic
<ochosi> sounds like it
<astraljava> Okay, that's odd indeed. Isn't it slightly darker gray when it's charging, but not that much.
<ochosi> knome: is that the power manager plugin or indicator-power?
<knome> indicator
<ochosi> hmkay, possible we don't really support it that well anymore in our icon theme
<knome> ok
<knome> how do i get the pm plugin, i don't have it in the applet list
<ochosi> maybe it's not installed
<knome> likely not.
<ochosi> i *think* i see the culprit
<ochosi> it's actually not entirely our fault, partly the indicators
<knome> ok
<ochosi> problem is, they now want 24px icons whereas before they wanted 22px
<knome> he following packages have unmet dependencies: xfce4-power-manager-plugins : Depends: xfce4-power-manager (>= 0.8.0~) but it is not going to be installed
<ochosi> so a few symlinks might be missing
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> not sure what the packaging problem is abou
<ochosi> t
<knome> i wonder if there's something fishy with PPA's.
<bluesabre> knome: do you have xfce4-power-manager pinned to an older version?
<knome> or sth..
<knome> maybe.
<ochosi> knome: wanna test a quick fix for the icon problem?
<knome> ochosi, soon
<bluesabre> if you upgraded, your PPAs should all be disabled
<knome> bluesabre, should, yeah...
<knome> yeah, pinning
<bluesabre> should have 1.4.3-0ubuntu1 for xfce4-power-manager, -data, -plugins
<knome> ochosi, ok, shoot
<knome> bluesabre, unpinning fixes
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> knome: go to /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/panel/22 in the term
<ochosi> knome: then run "cp battery* ../24/"
<knome> brb, phone
<ochosi> knome: ideally that'll work because the symlinks are all relative, so they should adjust. then run "sudo gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/" and then restart the panel (xfce4-panel -r)
<knome> nope
<knome> wait
<knome> yeah, nope
<ochosi> do the symlinks look ok?
<ochosi> i mean the ones in 24
<knome> just a sec..
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> right, then i'm not sure
<ochosi> you could diff the -dark/panel folders with the -xfce/panel folder contents
<ochosi> must be some icon name missing from dark
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/diff_dark_reg
<knome> ochosi, constructive criticism: the new frame "around selected windows" in greybird when cycling is a bit too obtrusive to my taste
<ochosi> you mean in the tabwin window or the frame that is indicating the window itself?
<knome> the window itself
<ochosi> that's up to xfwm4 itself, can't theme that rly
<knome> aha
<knome> then i guess i'll just turn that off
<ochosi> you can disable it specifically for tabwin if you don't like it
<knome> i know
<knome> i liked the border
<knome> but not the huge blue bloat
<ochosi> nah, that one was extremely hard to see imo
<knome> just enough
<ochosi> especially when moving and tiling a window, the blue rectangle is very nice
<knome> heh
<knome> so
<knome> do you want a bug for this indicator icon issue?
<ochosi> i guess
<knome> which package?
<ochosi> it might be the fake symbolic icons actually
<ochosi> lemme quickly check one more thing
<knome> sure
<ochosi> could you please create these symlinks in 22 and 24 in -dark? http://dpaste.com/3N8B0HZ
<elfy> are we ready for rebuild? 
<knome> ugh
<ochosi> knome: then if that's the problem, i guess i need to re-add those icons, even though this is actually broken by design :(
<ochosi> and finally with 15.10 this problem will resurface if ppl continue to use indicator-power and it doesn't get fixed
<knome> nope..
<knome> (i cp'd)
<ochosi> copied what?
<knome> the symlinks
<ochosi> and you updated the cache?
<ochosi> you could also restart your session just to be sure
<knome> yes..
<knome> ok, just a sec
<knome> no luck
<ochosi> no clue then tbh
<knome> so which package?
<ochosi> maybe i can try that later @home
<ochosi> assign it to xubuntu-artwork
<knome> the package or the team?
<knome> :P
<elfy> seemingly not 
<knome> bug 1446605
<ubottu> bug 1446605 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Power indicator icons are incorrect " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446605
<knome> elfy, two real hardware upgrades with unclean configuration reported :)
<elfy> knome: \o/ thanks :)
<knome> np
<knome> i still have that one old laptop there
<elfy> worth more than a vbox smoketest for sure 
<knome> have to see if i have time to do install/upgrade tests with it
<elfy> well 
<elfy> waiting for rebuild now 
<knome> yeah, not doing that *now*
<elfy> not sure what else is being fixed elsewhere - so not triggering it manually
<knome> in the evening or tomorrow
<elfy> bluesabre: rebuilding - as long as you only select our stuff - that's all that gets rebuilt 
<knome> shower time, bbl
<astraljava> Quite abstract, that knome fella.
<knome> :)
<ochosi> knome: i can't reproduce your problem
<ochosi> i just installed indicator-power in vivid and the bright icon shows up just fine in my panel
<ochosi> i can't really think of a difference between my system here and an upgraded one
<ochosi> could it be that you have a stuck xubuntu-artwork package too or something?
<drc> Quick question:  How does one get a "indicator-power" installed in vivid, rather than just the pm-plugin?
<Unit193> Upgrade from trusty, I think it was?
<ochosi> drc: sudo apt-get install indicator-power --no-install-recommends
<drc> Thanks...I missed the old one :)
<ochosi> anyway, would be good to know if it's reproducible in a normal vivid install
<ochosi> if it's solely an upgrade issue i'll dial down my attention to this bug
<drc> Just added it, logged out and in...it's dark on my box...the only thing I really changed from install was upped the panel height to 32.
<drc> now, where's the config? :)
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> what config?
<drc> One used to be able to config it olny show up when the battery was charging or discharging
<drc> That's what I missed about the new one
<ochosi> maybe you can configure that in indicator-power, but i'm not sure anymore
<ochosi> if so, you'd find it in dconf-editor
<drc> yup...change "present" to "charge"
<drc> works as advertised..the discharging icon is light/empty batter, but the charging icon is dark.
<ochosi> a-ha, so only the charging icon
<ochosi> i only checked the discharging one
<drc> I'm going to let the laptop run on battery for a while to make sure
<drc> Can't say for sure, the icon was dark on install, but I haven't let the battery run down enough to tell for sure.
<ochosi> nope, charging looks ok for me too
<ochosi> (left is indicator-power) http://i.imgur.com/gftUQQp.png
<drc> interesting...discharging = light/empty. charging = dark/full
<drc> But the initial icon show on installed was different from both of these.
<drc> When the battery's fully charged, I'll change the config to "present" and see what that one is
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> gmb git supports mpv backend now.
<drc> ochosi: This is what I get when on boot https://i.imgur.com/B11qpOz.png (see the dark icon)
<drc> ochosi: This is what I get when on battery (discharging) https://i.imgur.com/bc39Rns.png
<drc> Both those icons are when power indicator is "present" in the dconf-editor.
<drc> there is a third "dark icon" when present is changed to "charge" but I'm having trouble getting a screenie of it :(
<drc> Going to let the battery run for a while....
<drc> ochosi: and this is what I see with "charge" just after I plug the power cord back in...just before it gows away.  https://i.imgur.com/A4uvy8B.png
<drc> I don't think I'm explaining it well...any questions just ask.
<drc> ochosi: https://i.imgur.com/A4uvy8B.png is when "battery is charging"
<drc> https://i.imgur.com/B11qpOz.png == Charged (present)
<drc> https://i.imgur.com/bc39Rns.png == Discharging (present)
<drc> The log doesn't have the last image I posted but it is Charging (present)
<elfy> logs will have it - I can see it 
<drc> I thought there was a difference in the "present" vs "charge" in the indicator-power config, but it looks like I was wrong, with "charge" the "charged" icon just goes away.
<drc> elfy: sooner or later :)
<drc> I was just trying to undo the confusion I wrought earlier.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> for what it's worth - I get the power indicator again for some reason on a desktop 
<elfy> and also it looks different - completely - if you change panel size
<Unit193> Not xfpm plugin?
<drc> yes <26 one icon >26 another
<elfy> 24 here
<elfy> Unit193: *shrug* whatever shows up in notification area, just added xfpm and that's blank 
<elfy> biab
<drc> the funny thing is, the icons aren't even close in appearence.
<knome> ochosi, no, i cleared all pins
<knome> ochosi, i can look at it again later
<Unit193> knome: Any way to give the Xubuntu packageset uploaders bzr access to xubuntu-docs?
<knome> Unit193, good question. probably.
<Unit193> knome: It could be done otherwise, but for example d/changelog (or other debian/* changes) or tags would be handy (micahg tagged the last upload, tags for 12.10.1 and 12.10.2 also existed.)
<knome> weird, the doc-committers team doesn't have any team as a subteam
<knome> and is owned by the CC
<Unit193> (Also, fwiw LP 1299286 still exists. :P )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1299286 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Display performance regression in Xubuntu 13.10 and 14.04 as VirtualBox guest" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299286
<elfy> if anyone happens to notice rebuilds happening - would be good to see if it actually boots and shutsdown properly - thanks 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-22
<bluesabre> did we ever get a rebuild today?
<bluesabre> looks like no
<bluesabre> imma rebuild now then :)
<bluesabre> anybody around to see the flames?
<bluesabre> Unit193: ?
<bluesabre> requested a rebuild, not sure if it worked :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: WHAT YOU WANT?
<Unit193> :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, was waiting for ubiquity or casper, but oh well. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: [23:03:15] < jderose> is it expected that when doing a vivid encrypted home folder install (ecryptfs), grub should prompt you for a passphrase at boot?
<bluesabre> sounds like fun
<bluesabre> but for now
<bluesabre> zzz
<Unit193> Wow, you waz up late.
<Unit193> elfy: It works now, live session.
<Unit193> Power down, not so much.
<Unit193> http://i.imgur.com/5lKpLi5.png
<elfy> Unit193: didn't get that 
<elfy> 32 and 64 bit vbox - boot, fail to shutdown
<elfy> 64 bit doesn't start to desktop
<elfy> ^^ kvm
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> in kvm - both start and shutdown if you start 'try' from the boot menu 
<ochosi> elfy: i got the same thing like Unit193 yesterday when i tried a 32bit image
<elfy> ochosi: ack
<elfy> I 'think' all the fixes they were getting in yesterday before a global rebuild didn't happen
<ochosi> sounds quite probable
<elfy> hard to tell from the backlog
<elfy> hardware works at least 
<elfy> I wonder if all the breakage would miraculously stop if the went back to upstart :D
<elfy> looks like a hands in the air and wander off muttering response to vbox fails :D
<astraljava> Yeah I need to do some reading up on why we went with systemd and abandoned upstart.
<elfy> because we follow Debian
<astraljava> Right, but by 'we' I mean the whole ecosystem. :p
<astraljava> I remember catching some heated convos about it on some mailing list, but the concrete details was left in the shadows, and instead it quickly deteriorated into the usual banter on why you suck because you support the different technical solution.
<astraljava> *details were
<Unit193> Good luck.
<astraljava> Why, you don't think the agreement was easily reached? That's so hard to believe, when it comes to Debian. *blink* *blink*
<Unit193> Months of 'further "discussion"', thread after thread after flamewar.
<astraljava> Ok, I'll just look into stackexchange.com for a comparison, someone's bound to have done that. :p
<Unit193> Meh, going in we all knew they were going to pick systemd anyway.  Kind of miss the stability of upstart though.
<astraljava> Right, I never did get that familiar with the core bits.
<elfy> world is rebuilding currently
<elfy> also as I intimated earlier - if there are vbox issues are going to remain 
<astraljava> "elfy | world is rebuilding currently" - How fitting, on Earth Day even.
<elfy> world rebuilt
<elfy> just smokescreening everything right now
<KW4HK> smokescreening?
<elfy> yep - trying desperately to cover everything in a cloud of black smoke so we can release regardless
<elfy> obviously meant smoke testing
<elfy> knome: you say yes - but the release team might pull back and say no :D
<knome> elfy, yes for what? :)
<elfy> Quick question is Xubuntu 15.04 going to be released on April 23, 2015?
<elfy> :D
<knome> hah
<knome> well,
<knome> that's to the best of my knowledge atm..
<elfy> ha
<elfy> just about to pull together what I know 
<elfy> sent a sort of 'where we are' mail now
<elfy> if pleia2 and knome and any other social media types could social mediay the last mail - that would be awesomey 
<pleia2> yep, on it :)
<elfy> \o/
<bluesabre> elfy: exciting mail, that one
<elfy> bluesabre: the oh my word this is broken all over one? 
<bluesabre> yeah, that one
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> tried to make it positive - not very easy 
<elfy> bluesabre: did you catch my message re rebuilds? tick our boxes and then mark for rebuild - just rebuilds us
<knome> i guess somebody should bring this up... where are we with the release notes and announcement?
<elfy> you should only be able to do that for something you're in -release for anyway
<elfy> knome: same as always
<knome> ":)"
<elfy> I thought that we agreed announcement was website thing :D
<knome> i guess so
<bluesabre> elfy: I figured it out, and did a rebuild last night :)
<bluesabre> but thanks :D
<elfy> bluesabre: oh yea ... 
<knome> elfy, do we have a fairly up-to-date list of bugs?
<Unit193> knome: Simple, "We now have Xfce 4.12!" :---D
<elfy> I saw this morning 
<bluesabre> Unit193: yep
<slickymaster> lol Unit193 
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> knome: not very 
<knome> bluesabre, did you say you were pulling together some notes of new stuff?
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, will likely have a complete list a bit later
<knome> this is the point in the release when i wished all of the new features were documented in the blueprints...
<knome> bluesabre, great, ping me then
<elfy> knome: it's likely that release will be later than beta2
<knome> later?
<elfy> us vs uk timezones
<knome> aha
<knome> that's fine
<Unit193> Not sure it counts, but upgrades for core users now works...
<knome> but it's "tomorrow", so better get something moving now..
<knome> Unit193, i guess i practically count as one
<elfy> knome: the bugs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNoteBase are more or less current still from bp
<elfy> only one 'wrong' is the reboot bug
<knome> ok, i have this bug with lightdm
<knome> now the layout is correct
<elfy> and I think that needs some 'writing' not just a bug number
<knome> but then it starts "loading" something
<knome> or it might just as well just be flipping the mouse between the monitors
<knome> hmm.
<knome> double-click helped
<elfy> I'll have to catch up on backlog - failing to sit up straight now 
<knome> it's likely something with my very dirty config.
<knome> and/or dualhead config
<knome> elfy, and thanks for the link
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-release
<knome> bluesabre, feel free to add to the pad directly
<knome> i'll take care of the final formatting so no need to worry about that
<bluesabre> knome, cool, sounds good
<knome> also uploaded the release announcement artwork on the blog already ;)
<bluesabre> added a bit of contribution
<knome> lol
<knome> bluesabre, just checking... the new walllpaper is uploaded already? :P
<knome> bluesabre, and used?
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> knome: trolling, or not? I quite like the vivid wallpaper :)
<knome> not.
<knome> i just didn't remember when/if we pulled the switch
<bluesabre> yeah, probably forgot since it was before UIF
<bluesabre> for the first time in a long long while
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> yeah... so long time ago
<bluesabre> package diffs that we care about http://paste.ubuntu.com/10868565/
<bluesabre> I'll get the relevant things out of there and into the pad
<knome> bluesabre, cheerio
<Unit193> I'm rebuilding core ISOs now to test them and make sure they're all alright, will rebuild as close to final release as I can, make torrents, and everything.
<bluesabre> Unit193: good sir
<krytarik> Torrents \o/
<Unit193> krytarik: Figured you'd like.
<krytarik> :D
<bluesabre> knome: added all the interesting things I could think of, and fixed the xfce 4.12 release date ;)
<knome> nice
<knome> ok, i'm off to bed
<knome> see you all later
<bluesabre> nighty knome
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-23
<jjfrv8> dpkg -l xscreensaver
<jjfrv8> whoops, did it again
<jjfrv8> I can be excused though, I think I broke my main desktop after a clean install
<jjfrv8> not sure what's going on yet but after about six or seven minutes, it hangs, monitors go blank as if in suspend mode, but machine is just hung, not suspended.
<jjfrv8> also, but not as serious, after a reboot, I get a completely blank, white screen and I have to click the mouse to get the login prompt.
<jjfrv8> so, elfy, you can consider this a 64-bit fail on hardware (jjf-desk-main). The thing won't stay up long enough for me to file a bug and put it on the tracker.
<jjfrv8> that's it for tonight. tomorrow... restore from backup :(
<Unit193> Extras stats: http://paste.openstack.org/show/uNgVgE4ojXMsuEqyfBkz/
<dkessel> elfy: could you please extend my xubuntu-qa membership?
<ochosi> happy release day everyone!
<ochosi> i'll be out until the afternoon
<Unit193> yey! :P
<ochosi> then i can help with release notes etc
<ochosi> but feel free to push those things ahead even without me
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so that last xfpm you sponsored lost the lxpanel plugin.
<astraljava> Happy release day, peeps! How are we with the images? I was busy (and tired) yesterday rehearsing and celebrating, so didn't check the status. :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looking now (with Lubuntu people), looks like changed deps. :D
<Unit193> Oh right, you might want the log: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-power-manager_1.4.3-0ubuntu2_i386.build
<Unit193> jjfrv8: I'm expired too.
<elfy> everyone will the week after release 
<elfy> if you mean to ping dkessel instead of jjfrv8 :p
<Unit193> Bah, yeah.
<elfy> knome: you going to allude to the image/vbox issue - or shall I do that on the wiki release note? 
<Luyin> morning
<elfy> mornign Luyin 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, my membership in xubuntu-qa team is due to expire. Will I have a chance on another go?
<knome> elfy, not sure, feel free to put it in the wiki and i'll ask around if we want to duplicate it on the announcement
<bluesabre> Unit193: dang
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think the system tray is back in 1.4.3, they can enable that as a last second fix
<bluesabre> oh, nvm, that looks like its in 1.4.4
<bluesabre> did the lxpanel plugin break in 1.4.3, or did something change in the newer lxpanel code?
<bluesabre> curious
<zequence> elfy: I see you did a new build yesterday. Anything useful for us on that one?
<zequence> I'm considering to mark ours ready, but just want to check if you might know of a bug that we don't
<zequence> Or, if anyone else can tell me :)
<elfy> knome: ok 
<elfy> zequence: the vbox restart issue is about all that's nasty afaik
<bluesabre> knome: put together some vivid screenshots if you want them https://www.dropbox.com/s/3e8sbe9zzq8t442/vivid.tar.gz?dl=0
<elfy> back from work - doing the wiki release note
<elfy> looking like mid-afternoon releaseish 
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> need to go get ready for work now, bbl
<bluesabre> have fun with the release :)
<elfy> well for better or worse, we'll not be getting many new tracker reports I guess
<astraljava> elfy: Are we in need of any?
<astraljava> I could head home and work a couple of hours from there, and run a test or two if that's the case.
<elfy> astraljava: no - all's cool and as good as it'll get ::)
<elfy> thanks for offering though :)
<astraljava> Ok, just checking. :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, mid-afternoon UTC?
<elfy> believe so 
<knome> heh
<knome> guess i'd better do something before the in-laws crash in here then
<elfy> [10:36] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Aiming for mid-afternoon London time, ish.
<knome> what ever "mid-afternoon" means
<elfy> not yet :D
<knome> yeah..
<elfy> built what I can for the wiki note now
<knome> elfy, did you pick up the new app versions from the pad already?
<knome> yeah you did
<knome> so which of the bugs would you "highlight" on the announcement?
<elfy> I don't know of anything earth shattering 
<knome> i would +1 the notes plugin
<elfy> I made a note re vbox 
<elfy> that perhaps
<knome> mhm
<elfy> though I've only seen one random report of it from some guy :D
<knome> hah
<elfy> :)
<knome> was it ochosi or bluesabre who said "just running the notes plugin" would fix it
<knome> implying they know that it can happen
<knome> (it didn't help though)
<elfy> right
<knome> did we get rid of the shutdown/boot problem?
<knome> not the livesession, the after-install
<knome> elfy, and if you can proofread the announcement part on the pad, great
<knome> that should be pretty good now from my side
<elfy> look now
<knome> yeh, i notice :)
<elfy> yep - ack that
<knome> ok, i'll move to web soon so it's i publishable state
<elfy> knome: yea - that was the beta bug for a similar thing 
<knome> mhm
<knome> because the livesession thing isn't worth pulling to announcement
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> it's on the release notes with a note too
<knome> i edited the wiki formatting and added a note about the notes plugin
<knome> elfy, http://xubuntu.org/?p=3106&preview=true
<knome> elfy, please preview
<knome> next the download links
 * knome sighs
<elfy> knome: yep - looks fine
<knome> ta
<elfy> certainly works better with the site being 'chatty' and the 'wiki' less chatty just the detail
<knome> yes
<knome> that's how i've visioned it
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/1504-download.txt
<knome> that's the COMPLETE download page code
<knome> uhm, except it fails with unicode :)
<knome> ok, fixed that..
<knome> so you just need to copy that *all* to the text part
<elfy> ok - so if you're away at release - I can publish and edit the download page with that? 
<knome> yeah
<elfy> cool 
<elfy> thanks :)
<knome> in-laws are here any minute
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'll be about so all bases covered :)
<knome> yep, ta
<knome> i'll be checking the situation out now and then if i've failed with something ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> ok, back
<ochosi> so where do we stand?
<drc> Just checked cdimage (for xubuntu), and it looks like the release is there.
<drc> and the torrent is seeded.
<ObrienDave> torrents are up
<elfy> ochosi: notes and page are ready, download page will need updating - just waiting on infinity now
<ochosi> cool!
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether should mention the visual glitch with indicator-power
<ochosi> i still haven't had time to figure that one out
<ochosi> or to be more exact: haven't been able to reproduce it
<drc> glitch?
<ochosi> so for upgraders from 14.04, that'd be relevant (although it's only a small issue)
<ochosi> drc: well the dark icon
<elfy> bug 1446605 ?
<ubottu> bug 1446605 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Power indicator icons are incorrect " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446605
<elfy> if so - mentioned on the wiki release note
<ochosi> oh alright, hadn't looked there yet
<ochosi> thanks
 * drc wonders if it's connected to the dark/darker/darkest icons sets? (don't have 15.04 loaded to test)
<elfy> ochosi: did you look at the draft announcement? 
<elfy> publishing
<elfy> get xubuntu page updated
<ochosi> elfy: i did
<elfy> front page widget updated 
<elfy> hating html taggy things I'll leave the footer 1 widget alone :)
<elfy> just needs social media thing done now I think
<ochosi> great!
<elfy> ochosi: you'd better double check though :)
<knome> elfy, updated footer
<knome> tweeted too
<knome> bbl ->
<pleia2> posted to fb and g+
<elfy> thanks knome and pleia2 :)
<nerdistmonk> Has canonical lost their minds? I heard through the phoronix grape vine that they are dropping .deb and going to snappy? any clarification on this whopper?
<holstein> i doubt upstream is dropping .deb anytime soon
<holstein> there is a snappy core project..
<holstein> http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/
<nerdistmonk> Ubuntu's Desktop-Next moving to snappy it says
<nerdistmonk> thats on phoronix
<holstein> i would probably /join and ubuntu dev community
<elfy> nerdistmonk: instead of asking in here - why not ask in #ubuntu-devel
<nerdistmonk> did i miss something here? is xubuntu not taking in any changes ubuntu makes to their core OS now?
<holstein> or the ubuntu mailing lists.. i bet the dev list there would have archives relevant that one could publically search
<holstein> nerdistmonk: debs are in 15.04
<elfy> nerdistmonk: we've not heard anything - and we'd ask in an Ubuntu channel rather than phoronix
<nerdistmonk> and im trying to inform you they plan on changing that in 15.10
<holstein> debs are in debian.. i think there is a misunderstanding, or assumption somewhere.. but, im sure you can find facts and details upstream
<nerdistmonk> Xubuntu is ubuntu is it not? or did you guys jump ship and xubuntu is its own unique thing seperate from canonical?
<holstein> correct.. xubuntu is an official flavor.. but, this is not the canonical community
<nerdistmonk> i dont care about ubuntu the distro, i care about the OS im currently planted on (xubuntu) suddenly being incompatible with debian packages. Sorry if i was having trouble relaying this concern to you. if its a ubuntu only issue, then who cares, as long as it does not spread to xubuntu which is what im worried about.
<elfy> nerdistmonk: also - Ubuntu-Next is not Ubuntu 
<holstein> yeah, they are just different projects..
<nerdistmonk> ok then
<nerdistmonk> panic /off
<holstein> panic?
<holstein> one can always make ones own buntu.. no need for panic.. its *all* open
<nerdistmonk> ha right.
<davmor2> nerdistmonk: if you want to know more about snappy and the plans moving forward the best place is #snappy  but there are a lot of things to work out for a snappy desktop and all the flavours will be taken into account if it moves that way
<nerdistmonk> <<doesn't care about snappy as long as it stays far, far away from xubuntu devel install.
<elfy> thanks davmor2 
<holstein> nerdistmonk: sure.. its just that, there is no guarantee of that.. upstream debian could go with something that would trickle down, for example
<nerdistmonk> debian has zero plans to dump .deb
<nerdistmonk> this is _all_ canonical
<nerdistmonk> but as you all said, its only on their side project
<holstein> nerdistmonk: i never said they did.. *but* there are many parts of the system to "panic" about
<drc> I don't have to put up with this crap
<elfy> nerdistmonk: really - please go and find out the reality
<holstein> there is also the offtopic channel.. more appropriate for dicussion
<holstein> !ot
<ubottu> #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
<drc> I apologize...sorry
<elfy> :)
<drc> I plead senility (get off my lawn!)
<drc> The 15.04 release looks pretty good...DL was fast (torrent), ISO burn to USB was good, USB boot was good, install was good (restart button worked, but didn't ask me to remove media...is it still supposed to?).
<elfy> it should
<elfy> it asked me last time I checked hardware
<drc> The button has worked (but w/o asking) for me since at least B2.
<elfy> right
<elfy> biab
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so how it works.  The lxpanel.pc file declared a dep on libmenu-cache-dev but 'lxpanel' doesn't declare this, so xfpm had to.  With lxpanel 0.7.1 this changed to libfm-dev and we didn't follow this (not really our fault, IMO)  However, adding that and rebuilding gives a ftbfs (linked) in the xfpm lxpanel plugin.
<Unit193> knome: You want the honors in #x or do I?
<Unit193> !magnets
<Unit193> knome: xubuntu-15.04-desktop-i386.iso: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce - xubuntu-15.04-desktop-amd64.iso: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a8db93f41d8d3fc0951302d5606d819c9f59e1d0&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<knome> Unit193, feel free to..
<knome> !magnets-15.04
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<knome> hmm.
<knome> !magnets-15.04
<knome> !magnets
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<knome> !magnets-15.04
<Unit193> !+magnets-15.04
<ubottu> <alias> magnets-#xubuntu
<knome> i thought i changed it.
<Unit193> If you do it that way, !magnets will need updated too.
<knome> no, that's correct
<knome> i want to change the alias, but ubottu won't let me
<knome> 22:34 knome: !no, magnets-15.04-#xubuntu-devel is <alias> magnets-15.04-#xubuntu
<knome> 22:34 ubottu: You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<knome> then i repeat
<knome> and it doesn't change
<Unit193> Off top -ops or -irc.
<knome> i've hit this before, there was some workaround
<knome> !magnets-15.04
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 15.04 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<knome> there we go
<knome> edit to <reply> then edit back to <alias>
<knome> stupid bot
<Unit193> !magnets
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<Unit193> knome: Going to update that then to .2?
<knome> gimme the magnet links
<knome> or are they the same?
<knome> bug 1447793
<ubottu> bug 1447793 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "Can't change alias destinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447793
<knome> bug 1309533
<ubottu> bug 1309533 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "Can't edit factoids that are aliases to nonexisting factoids" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309533
<genii> Interesting
<Unit193> How about the fact that ubottu uses sqlite0?
<Unit193> sqlite1 rather.
<knome> Unit193, you can file a bug for that yourself :P
<Unit193> Needs people with more free time. :/
<Unit193> knome: Don't want to make !magnets current?
<Unit193> !torrents
<ubottu> Xubuntu Utopic (14.10) torrents can be downloaded from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/utopic/release/desktop/xubuntu-14.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent and http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/utopic/release/desktop/xubuntu-14.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
<Unit193> (Don't correct that, it's auto updating.)
<Unit193> !+torrents
<ubottu> <alias> torrents-#xubuntu
<Unit193> !+torrents-#xubuntu
<ubottu> <reply> Xubuntu $curStable ($curStableNum) torrents can be downloaded from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/$curStableLower/release/desktop/xubuntu-$curStableNum-desktop-i386.iso.torrent and http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/$curStableLower/release/desktop/xubuntu-$curStableNum-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
<knome> Unit193, LTS is the preferred
<Unit193> ./!magnets-lts ?
<knome> so maybe torrents should link to LTS too
<Unit193> Can't due to point releases.
<knome> aha
<knome> well, can
<knome> i would prefer !magnets and !torrents for latest LTS
<knome> but i guess it doesn't matter TOO much
<knome> but just proves you should have factoid editing rights
<Unit193> xubuntu-14.04.2-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
<Unit193> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a1778a5ee0f1a563e8fdfc4c79ad4f17a82a396f&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<Unit193> unit193@Sigma:~/Torrents$ getmagnet xubuntu-14.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
<Unit193> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4a211f9547243f81ca7689539fdd4ccb0875e22e&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<Unit193> knome: Not when I can just have you and IdleOne do it! ;)
<knome> Unit193, there you go! :D
<Unit193> :(
<knome> so whatever you do, tell me what is is
<knome> *it
<knome> i'm fine with !torrents and !torrents-lts too i guess
<knome> but then plz drop -15.04 :P
<knome> (or in any case really, and make it generic)
<Unit193> I'd really prefer it, but of course you're lead.  I like more generic too, else you get new factoid for every release. :P
<Unit193> So xMir images up, -core to follow.
<Unit193> knome: I remembered, done.
<knome> what did you remember?
<Unit193> !magnets
<Unit193> !magnets-lts
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 15.04 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<ubottu> Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.2 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a1778a5ee0f1a563e8fdfc4c79ad4f17a82a396f&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4a211f9547243f81ca7689539fdd4ccb0875e22e&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
<knome> ok, nice
<knome> gah.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Bit late now, sure.  But did anyone test that eject fix in UEFI?
<cyphermox> Unit193: I don't know, can't remember if I did
<cyphermox> it certainly would be broken in vbox
<cyphermox> I'm not sure if UEFI would really impact the ejection
<Unit193> qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -bios '/usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd' -boot d -m 512 -cdrom 'xubuntu-core-15.04-amd64.iso' -localtime -hda fat:/home/unit193/hda/  (UEFI locked down mode) didn't work on Enter to power off the system, but BIOS mode seems to work fine.  Granted, UEFI gets xubuntu-logo and BIOS gets xubuntu-text.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Anywho, just noted, not really important I'd think.  Thanks.
<cyphermox> the difference in which splash you get is not UEFI but the graphics driver.
<Unit193> Only difference in command is dropping -bios '/usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd'  so I just called it that for ease.
<cyphermox> Unit193: did you use Try or Install?
<Unit193> Try.
<cyphermox> k
<cyphermox> well, trying now :)
<Unit193> cyphermox: From syslinux screen.
<cyphermox> and did you go restart or shutdown?
<Unit193> Shutdown (why did I type 'shower'??)
<cyphermox> I thought pitti had made some last minute changes to ubiquity to fix this
 * cyphermox sighs
<Unit193> cyphermox: Sorry.  Anywho, it's after the release, so too late.
<cyphermox> well, no, it's not too late for 15.10
<Unit193> Right, anywho.  For anyone interested the "community respin", Xubuntu Core ISOs, torrents, zsync, etc. are: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/ for 32/64 supporting locked down UEFI too.
<Unit193> knome: ----^ :P
<Unit193> knome: I could get you magnets too. :D
<knome> what?
<knome> :P
<cyphermox> Unit193: locked down UEFI?
<cyphermox> Unit193: heh, what do you know, I also can't shutdown properly in UEFI while it works on BIOS
<cyphermox> might be a ovmf issue though
<cyphermox> and now I need to accompany my wife to do some shopping, back later.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Nothing special.  UEFI systems that aren't unlocked, using the MS key, etc.
<Unit193> cyphermox: I'm not likely using the same version of ovmf though.  Heh, have "fun"
<Unit193> Locked down = secure boot.
<cyphermox> I don't mind it ;)
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<Unit193> knome: Soooo, what do you want me to do with them now anywho? ;P
<knome> with core ISOs?
<Unit193> Yea.
<knome> dunno
<slickymaster> wait until I finish to download https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-core-15.04-i386.iso Unit193 
<Unit193> slickymaster: Did a quick smoketest, everything should be good (didn't install it, but meh.)
<slickymaster> I will tomorrow Unit193 
<slickymaster> I'll let you know then what it went
<slickymaster> s/what/how
<Unit193> Heh, alrighty-o!
<Unit193> (It's been tested before, just not this spin.)
<slickymaster> yeah, I tested one before
<Unit193> Got the mir images up too, but those are hardly worthwhile now, IMO.
<ochosi> (late) evening all
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<Unit193> Howdy, ochosi.
<ochosi> hmm, so snappy packages
<ochosi> we seem to have a problem with elementary xfce darkest not having a theme cache
<ochosi> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AyY4Uy5FLhg/VTjP1hzL6ZI/AAAAAAAAWPU/-E62t8vhFfM/s1600/xubuntu-appearance_2.png
 * drc looks for his shot gun and rock salt shells.
<ochosi> also, i'm wondering whether we should get rid of the no-headerbars patches for 15.10
<ochosi> after all, they're going to work fine with or without compositor in the next release (with gtk3.16)
<bluesabre> considering how silly headerbar apps look with a menu or titlebar on them, yeah
<Unit193> considering how silly headerbar apps look
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> guess there's no avoiding that simple truth
<ochosi> dunno, i personally don't mind their look in simple apps like evince
<ochosi> doesn't work for everything or for all contexts
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> for instance, catfish would work fine with headerbar
<ochosi> parole not so much
<Unit193> Well, GNOME says you're wrong and should rethink your life, so clearly you're wrong.
<ochosi> xfce4-settings-manager would work fine with headerbar too
<ochosi> thunar, maybe not so much
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> thunar 1.6.7-1 uploaded to experimental
<Unit193> xfce4-power-manager 1.4.4-2 uploaded to experimental
<ochosi> but also, the much acclaimed "visual inconsistency" doesn't hit me as hard as it used to
<ochosi> i think with focusing a bit more on making them look even more integrated, it could be just fine
<ochosi> even ubuntu/ambiance did a quite OK job at that for 15.04
<ochosi> bluesabre or Unit193: could we get a package for xfpm-gtk3 (aka git master) soonish?
<ochosi> i have run into a bug i cannot debug and the OP isn't very helpful
<ochosi> (i dont have a desktop at hand, and it seems that is needed)
<bluesabre> probably
<ochosi> i'm really lost with that bug
<ochosi> somehow upower seems to fail to provide an icon, which is sorta okayish (although i guess it could just return some basic fallback instead), my catching that and providing a fallback doesnt seem too work at all
<bluesabre> that bites
<ochosi> the only time i was able to test (desktop in vbox) the plugin totally crashed, so i still couldn't reproduce the bug
<ochosi> that's the last bug holding me back from releasing 1.5.0
<bluesabre> I'll try to get the package up tonight then
<ochosi> i presume you don't have a desktop?
<ochosi> anyone else here, desktops?
<knome> i have a desktop
<ochosi> would you be willing to test?
<knome> now, or later?
<ochosi> well, anytime really
<knome> i can do that later, ping me tomorrow pretty much any time
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> it's not hard to compile but ideally you'd need 15.04
<ochosi> cause of the depends
<knome> i am on 15.04
<ochosi> perfect
<ochosi> then it's just a matter of cloning, apt-get build-dep and compiling
<bluesabre> or grabbing from a ppa, potentially
<knome> bluesabre, i like that
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> Unit193: any reason we don't make -core isos more official?
<knome> ochosi, testing
<Unit193> ochosi: Because they're on unit193.net.
<ochosi> knome: you mean lack thereof?
<Unit193> Not using Canonical infra.
<knome> ochosi, they would need testing, and it's not clear how that would be organized
<knome> we could use canonical infra, that's secondary imo
<Unit193> knome: It's had some testing over the vivid cycle by more than just me, FWIW.
<ochosi> yeah, also it's not *that different* after all
<ochosi> either way, we could still announce it on xubuntu.org imo
<ochosi> for now, as an exploratory "community project"
<ochosi> and aim for making it more official for 15.10
<ochosi> Unit193: thoughts ^ ?
<ochosi> also, elfy ^ ?
<knome> what if we tried to pump up the discussion during the WW devel cycle?
<ochosi> yeah, that i'd wanna do either way
<ochosi> but frankly, the few times -core was mentioned on g+, it generated very positive feedback
<ochosi> i think there is an audience for it
<knome> what we need to discuss is the meta side
<ochosi> if we manage to engage them for it as a community project now, maybe we'd have them as testers later
<knome> eg. is desktop still our flagship (should be), what kind of testing would -core need, etc
<ochosi> sure, i agree
<Unit193> ochosi: My opinion?  In the past I've wanted to keep it unofficial because I didn't want to add more load to QA, but elfy seemed fine with it so I'm with whatever he says.  He did indicate it could be left at milestone testing too.
<ochosi> k, so let's discuss it with him first here and depending on the outcome, we can do the broader discussion knome indicated
<ochosi> personally i don't mind using x.org to announce community projects, especially if someone from our team is involved
<ochosi> (in case we stick to the status of "community project")
<knome> as i see it, core is more than a community project already;
<knome> if you remove something that makes you lose -desktop, you are basically running core
<knome> so it's not like some weirdo off-center thing that only geeks use
<Unit193> Just some weirdo-geek made it...
<Unit193> knome: Right, but there's no official ISO for that.
<bluesabre> xubuntu#!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: we love the work that you sink into -core :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks.  Also, the insanity I sink in? :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> ochosi: So going to socialize it? :P
<bluesabre> take it to the distro park to play
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-24
<Unit193> OvenWerks: Hrm, are you the random downloading the core ISO?  If so, we're about to do another rebuild (so you'll be able to zsync though.)
<bluesabre> Unit193 is a creepy download stalker :)
<krytarik> lol
<Unit193> bluesabre: #ubuntustudio-devel, mate.
<bluesabre> tis a silly place
<bluesabre> that I should be in more frequently
<ochosi> Unit193: do we have some install instructions or docs for it in place?
<ochosi> as soon as we do, i'll sure as hell gonna socialize it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean camelot?
<Unit193> ochosi: mini.iso is on the tracker, and -core install instructions are the same as the desktop.
<Unit193> Wait for the final rebuild?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> anyway tonight i'm too tired, let's finalize this tomorrow
<ochosi> also, let's talk to elfy
<bluesabre> :)
<OvenWerks> Unit193: Thanks ok.
<Unit193> It'll work fine as-is, but slight build changes.
<Unit193> krtarik: OK I think I'm happier with it.  Slight roadbump in the fix, but all should be good.
<OvenWerks> Unit193: zsync is not happy trying to dl core
<Unit193> Oh?
<OvenWerks> failed to retrieve from xubuntu-core-15.04-amd64.iso
<OvenWerks> I am not sure if there is a trick to deal with https
<Unit193> zsync http://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-core-15.04-amd64.iso.zsync  or you can use the same zsync-curl package.
<OvenWerks> Ok that works.
<elfy> morning
<astraljava> o/
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> elfy: Got enough pings in scrollback?
<elfy> yep I did 
<elfy> speed reading catches the gist of it :)
<elfy> I'm all for -core being more official
<elfy> as far as testing goes - that's kind of immaterial - imo we shouldn't not do THIS just because we've got few testers
<elfy> I would have to assume the ones we DO have would test what we threw their way
<Unit193> No, we should not do it because it'd be me directly adding more to the testing load. :P
<elfy> I'll be doing the 'how did testing go' mail to the list soon - let's see what response we get from that
<elfy> and as Unit193 said - I'd be cool with -core being pushed at milestones only
<elfy> Unit193: lol
<elfy> also - if we are going to push it then the next cycle is the one to do it during, I'd not be soSearch Results blasÃ© during the following LTS one
<elfy> stupid middle mouse button
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: zsync before you use the image, btw.
<slickymasterWork> ok Unit193 
<ochosi> elfy: that sounds pretty good to me!
<ochosi> so maybe rather than announcing the image for 15.04 on xu.org, we could announce that there will be images throughout 15.10 and that we want ppl to do milestone testing
<ochosi> actually i'm wondering whether smoketests would be enough for -core
<ochosi> since most (or all?) of the rest is tested in -desktop anyway
<elfy> ochosi: that sounds and appears logical 
<Unit193> Awwwh. :(
<ochosi> Unit193: what would you have preferred
<Unit193> Well, kind of kidding, but..
<ochosi> Unit193: right, still, please finish your sentences :)
<elfy> heh
<Unit193> Eh, well kind of exists now, but meh.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, as i said, i wouldn't mind announcing it's sort-of-readiness now when announcing plans for 15.10 for it
<ochosi> elfy: ^ ?
<elfy> yep - works here 
<ochosi> Unit193: would that be an ok compromise for you then?
<ochosi> knome: re: that xfpm bug, you might have to compile yourself either way because if you can reproduce the bug, i'll need to add more debug-code so we can get the needed info
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> hurgh
<knome> :P
<ochosi> well, that's what testing apps actually means most often ;)
<knome> i know
<ochosi> but the steps are really simple
<ochosi> are you comfortable with applying git patches btw?
<knome> somewhat
<ochosi> ok good
<ochosi> otherwise i would've set up a separate repo for testing/debugging it, but that seems a little over the top
<knome> heh
<ochosi> gotta run out for 2h, bb after that
<knome> yep
<knome> pleia2, RT 26480 if you are interested, but no need to worry, i'll handle it
<elfy> thanks knome 
<elfy> could have done that myself ... 
<knome> it's fine :)
<knome> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/15.04/release/
<knome> oops.
<ochosi> knome: any time you're ready, lemme know
<knome> got to eat first
<ochosi> sure, bon appetit
<knome> if only i knew what i'm eating..
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, zsynced and installed without a glich
<elfy> afternoon peeps
<slickymasterWork> if you want any specific testing on it please let me know
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<slickymasterWork> *glitch
<ochosi> knome: soo... ready for some testing now?
<knome> ochosi, unfortunately (for you) i'm not on my desktop now...
<knome> will probably be postponed to some other day; unless you simply leave me the instructions and the test subject..
<ochosi> hm, alright
<slickymasterWork> ftr knome, there's a typo in http://xubuntu.org/news/15-04-release/
<slickymasterWork> I'm correcting it
<elfy> where? 
<slickymasterWork> in the known issues section
<slickymasterWork> It was: "... To workaround this, simply readd the notes plugin to the panel....
<slickymasterWork> removed the extra 'd' in readd
<elfy> oh yea 
<elfy> umm
<elfy> readd is right - read isn't :)
<elfy> or re-add
<slickymasterWork> god damn it elfy :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, yeah you are wrong :P
<knome> it's "re-add"
<slickymasterWork> well at least you'll have to concur that it was an honest mistake
<elfy> and work around as krytarik said elsewhere, being too scared to come here 
<krytarik> LOL - yeah yeah.
<elfy> slickymasterWork: it was an honest mistake for sure :)
<elfy> ohai krytarik :p
<slickymasterWork> ok, it's re-add. now
<knome> slickymasterWork, "To work around this, simply add the notes plugin back to the panel." 
<knome> slickymasterWork, plz
<slickymasterWork> ok knome, I admit I read it diagonally 
<elfy> that's lost in translation here :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, please put what i just quoted there for improved clarity
<slickymasterWork> ?! knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, "To work around this, simply add the notes plugin back to the panel." 
<slickymasterWork> put what? where?
<knome> on the website
<knome> :P
<krytarik> Same would apply to the wiki page, btw.
<knome> i can take care of that
<slickymasterWork> so not, re-add?
<slickymasterWork> without the comma
<elfy> slickymasterWork: change it to that sentence 
<knome> slickymasterWork, well it's a different sentence altogether :P
<elfy> To work around this, simply add the notes plugin back to the panel
<knome> or i can do it if it's too baffling..
<slickymasterWork> no it's not too baffling knome 
<slickymasterWork> it's done
<knome> thanks
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> looks to be a different colour to me
<knome> really?
<krytarik> +1
<knome> maybe
<knome> damn that slimy master
<elfy> definitely
<elfy> bad timing there from me :p
<krytarik> Also, "Release notes" â "Release Notes" as well then. :P
 * knome goes fix
 * knome sighs
<knome> done
<krytarik> \o/
<knome> zequence, ping
<Unit193> ochosi: Heh, of course.  In the end whatever works and is useful.  If that means wait until 15.10 for more testing, that's fine.
<knome> zequence, (at least) two things:
<knome> zequence, 1) how did you end up with SSL on studio's website?
<knome> zequence, 2) did you get jetpack installed for studio WP and/or are you interested in it any more?
<zequence> knome: Don't know about the ssl. We haven't got anything installed, no.
<zequence> I'm satisfied myself with what we have right now.
<knome> zequence, ok, then i'll likely as them to close that ticket
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-25
<OvenWerks> Unit193: has anyone tested the latest core ISO?
<Unit193> amd64 or i386?  Yes to i386, and I'm sure I did live on both, UEFI and BIOS for amd64.
<OvenWerks> Unit193: I get a recursive partition table message when I look at the USB stick after dd ing the ISO to it
<OvenWerks> 64 bit
<Unit193> Didn't dd it, but it looks fine..
<OvenWerks> Hmm.
<OvenWerks> I have tried two different sticks
<Unit193> Mmm.
<OvenWerks> Maybe I will look at it tomorrow again and try the 32 bit
<OvenWerks> Unit193: 32 bit works... boots anyway. disk check shows errors on this one too, but it doesn't hang.
<Unit193> What errors?
<OvenWerks> two of the checksums don't
<OvenWerks> (check)
<OvenWerks> Sorry it must be late, using the diskcheck on the bootscreen. There are two checksum errors.
<OvenWerks> There are two errors for both the 64bit and 32 bit, but the 32 bit boots all the way. The 64 bit hangs with an I can't find this partition to mount kind of error
<OvenWerks> Both have partitions that parted doesn't know what to do with. I am using dd if=dist.ISO of=/dev/sdd to write to the USB stick. This seems to work fine with the ubuntustudio ISOs.
 * Unit193 tries something.
<elfy> it worked !!!
<OvenWerks> Unit193: no slide show :)
<Unit193> Yep.
<elfy> where is this iso then ... 
<OvenWerks> elfy: it is  on ... I can't go look the core ISO has no browser... Unit193's site
<OvenWerks> I'll be back in a bit... reboot
<Unit193> elfy: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/  though, still trying something.
<elfy> Unit193: okey doke
<OvenWerks> Install of the 32 bit ISO is fine.
<Unit193> Crap.
<OvenWerks> how so?
<Unit193> Problem with the 64bit right?  Lets change something with the 64bit build then test it by building a 32bit iso!  Noo.  Well, it's (re)starting now, but I need to go as I have an early morning and it's nearly 4am.
<OvenWerks> No problem, I have enough to work with. I will play with the 32 bit version for now
<Unit193> OvenWerks: Checksum issues, one at least should be fixed.
<Unit193> Other one I may have to change permissions on a file, but would prefer not to of course.
<OvenWerks> I will try again tomorrow then.
<Unit193> (The md5sum file was added to files to check...)
<Unit193> On the bright side, the amd64 image looks better.
<bluesabre> good morning folks
<Unit193> No.
<bluesabre> okthxbai
<brainwash> "Will 4.12 be coming to Trusty?"
<bluesabre> "No."
<brainwash> not sure if I should quote that
<brainwash> bug 1347272
<ubottu> bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347272
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hello.
<brainwash> bluesabre: will you comment on that report?
<brainwash> not that we want people give hope of backporting any of the fixes
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1441460
<ubottu> bug 1441460 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu] Failing to sleep after inactivity - power manager error?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441460
<brainwash> the reporter claims that one light-locker option is not persistent
<Unit193> elfy: Not that you're here, but where did it ask for the pass?  LightDM was good for me, sudo too, and shutdown.
<Unit193> (Well, the act of starting to shutdown.)
<bluesabre> hey guys, sorry, internet went outish earlier and then I went out to town
<bluesabre> the official quote that brainwash can use is https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis/status/570387123024433152
<bluesabre> for bug 1347272, I thought that we had gone through and resolved the issue for every app, need to take a look
<ubottu> bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347272
<bluesabre> Also commented on1441460
<bluesabre> bug 1441460
<ubottu> bug 1441460 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu] Failing to sleep after inactivity - power manager error?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441460
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-26
<bluesabre> knome: got an email request for a wallpaper-sized monkey artwork from http://xubuntu.org/news/15-04-release/
<OvenWerks> Unit193: I am very happy with Xubuntu-core. I am thinking Studio could very easily be based on it directly. The default theme and look/feel just work. Our menu stub just works too. I should probably take a look at the xubuntu release as well and see if we would need to take anything out at all. That may work even better.
<Unit193> OvenWerks: Great!  Glad to hear it.  64bit should be fine too now.
<OvenWerks> Yes 64bit is what I am playing with in fact.
<Unit193> Great!  Glad it's confirmed, and thanks a bunch for pointing it out.
<OvenWerks> No problem.
<hudsonkem> hello?
<holstein> o/
<holstein> hudsonkem: maybe you are looking for the support channel?
<hudsonkem> yes
<holstein> hudsonkem: cool.. thats #xubuntu for xubuntu.. and #ubuntu as well, for general ubuntu support
<hudsonkem> ok thx, so 
<hudsonkem> I have a cursor inssue, invisible cursor sometimes  after reboot, im right to type here?
<holstein> hudsonkem: well, as i said, the support channel is #xubuntu
<hudsonkem> got it sorry. thx for all bye
<holstein> hudsonkem: you can still right click and get a menu? its literally invisible?
<hudsonkem> yes
<hudsonkem> work but I can't see. and I must try 3 times reboot to this work
<holstein> i suppose, i would look into my gpu driver, after simply updating the machine.. then, i would look at my user.. it would be helpful to note if the cursor is "invisible" at the login screen, or no..
<hudsonkem> yes reboot with invisible cursor
<holstein> hudsonkem: please apply all updates
<holstein> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<holstein> reboot, and *note* if the cursor is there at the login screen, and as other users
<holstein> see if the issue is isolated to just the one user account
<hudsonkem> I found other user with this inssue, so not alone me, 
<holstein> hudsonkem: users on *your* machine, friend
<holstein> *not* just randomly someone else.. please try the guest user, and/or another user *account*
<hudsonkem> well, other users around the world, in ubuntu report
<hudsonkem> them said about org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xcursor
<holstein> hudsonkem: sure, im not denying other users, as in, people, have that issue
<holstein> hudsonkem: what im asking you to do has *nothing* to do with other people. im talking about user accounts on your machine
<holstein> not other users, as in, people
<holstein> please try as another user. the *guest* user.. login to your machine in the guest account, and test that the cursor works
<hudsonkem> but, the trouble begin after lightdm start, when display GUI cursor is invisible
<holstein> hudsonkem: so, as i ask, do you have a cursor in the guest account? yes or no?
<hudsonkem> no
<holstein> hudsonkem: ok.. are you up to date with upgrades, and rebooted into the most current kernel? yes? no?
<hudsonkem> yes
<holstein> hudsonkem: what GPU driver are you using? with what GPU hardware?
<hudsonkem> just onboard or generic card drive
<holstein> hudsonkem: sure.. i'll wait as you see what GPU you have, and driver, and report to me for further voluntaryy support, in the #xubuntu support channel.. thanks
<hudsonkem> can you tell me commads to see that because I aways forgot that.
<holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1795372
<hudsonkem> thx, so it took a long text, may I put in text file and upload it?
<holstein> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<holstein> hudsonkem: also, please use #xubuntu for support.. thanks
<hudsonkem> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10893230/
<holstein> hudsonkem: ok.. now, please, again, use the #xubuntu channel
<holstein> hudsonkem: go there *now*, ok? do you understand? yes? no?
<hudsonkem> yes, I am just here because You are asking me so I have to answer 
<hudsonkem> thank you bye
<holstein> hudsonkem: just /join #xubuntu
<OvenWerks> holstein: check if he used the start disk maker in the system menu and is running live. The problem went away when I used dd to put the image on the USB drive. It was only a problem when running live.
 * OvenWerks guess he is a bit late...
<elfy> Unit193: boot with image, wait for it to autologin - fruitlessly, it wanted username/password
<elfy> could be dodgy download
<elfy> and apparently so, works in vbox - still  issues in kvm 
<elfy> and we has 3 winners :)
<elfy> new person showed up during final testing - p-brada - they win that
<elfy> for the whole cycle - removing those previous recipients - dkessel :)
<elfy> and for the whole cycle - in team - jjfrv8 reported 138 for us - thanks jjfrv8 :)
<elfy> knome: when you have 5 minutes - a bit of help with LP bug search-fu ... 
<dkessel> yay, thank you guys :)
<elfy> thank you ;)
<elfy> not sure if you saw this or the mail first, but you have one of those too :D
<dkessel> saw the mail first :) tbh i wouldn't have thought i would get stickers, as i have only had time to help in the beginning of the cycle. but i it still was enough number-wise :)
<elfy> well - in this situation, it is numbers that count :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: can we close bug 1441460 ? the actual problem can be resolved by changing one light-locker option
<ubottu> bug 1441460 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu] Failing to sleep after inactivity - power manager error?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441460
<brainwash> I don't think that âWhen the screensaver is deactivatedâ should be the default, or should it?
<bluesabre> brainwash: It sounds like a race condition
<bluesabre> The new default we have is that light-locker doesn't autolock by default
<bluesabre> unless suspending
<brainwash> the problem is that locking the screen makes the user session inactive and xfpm is not able to auto suspend the system then
<brainwash> it's the vt switching drawback
<bluesabre> right, but sometimes the suspend signal gets through before the vt switch actually occurs, and thats (I think) the race condition
<brainwash> uhm
<brainwash> you mean lock on suspend
<brainwash> the report is about auto suspending while the lock screen is active
<bluesabre> oh, that one
<brainwash> so, lock screen after 10min.. suspend system after 15min
<bluesabre> I misunderstood the report
<bluesabre> then yeah, you're right
<brainwash> this use case is problematic, so what can be done other then telling the user to change the light-locker option?
<brainwash> which does not solve the problem completely
<brainwash> once you switch to the lock screen, then xfpm has not power anymore :)
<bluesabre> nothing, we do not currently have a solution for that scenario
<bluesabre> unless the answer is, use a different lock screen to satisfy your needs
<brainwash> we can only hope that light-locker without the vt switch will be ready for 16.04
<brainwash> yeah
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you read bug 1446247 ?
<ubottu> bug 1446247 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu 15.04 - No power indicator in applet indicator" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446247
<brainwash> Unit193 has not commented yet (ninja subscribed him)
<brainwash> I don't know what the status or process is on this issue
<Unit193> I commented outside of the bug.
<brainwash> what is the status?
<brainwash> is someone taking care of this bug?
<elfy> a rather blunt 12.04 is EOL announcement is drafted
<elfy> pleia2: thinking about people like the mexican news report we have on x.org - do we know if there's much of an appetite out there for OEM installs? 
<elfy> now that Vivid is old hat - I'm looking to Wibbly now ;)
<pleia2> elfy: I've heard nothing wrt OEM installs, and they take a massive amount of work (automated testing, etc)
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> but we 'could' do optional OEM tests - if it even works 
<elfy> Mate manage
<elfy> just thinking of things here is all 
<pleia2> I honestly don't know much about it, have just heard some of the rumblings from canonical about all the work put in to work with manufacturers
<drc> pleia2: Rumblings or grumblings?
<elfy> pleia2: yea I have seen the same type of thing, mostly davmor2 
<elfy> just wondering if there is a 'market' for it generally
<elfy> I'd rather mix it up in 15.10 and need to mail list more frequently this cycle, try and get more of a constant flow
<elfy> anyway - as I said - just thinking :)
<elfy> you go back to looking forward to Sunday :D
<pleia2> drc: yes ;)
<pleia2> elfy: short of an OEM approaching us (they haven't), I'm inclined to say it's not a good investment of our time
<pleia2> but yay for ideas
<elfy> but the guy installing in a bunch of places in Mexico might have like to know it was possible 
<elfy> that was the germ of the idea :
<elfy> )
<elfy> blaming you :D
<pleia2> hehe
<drc> always blame the mouthpiece :)
<elfy> drc: of course - I thought you were older than me and would know :D
<drc> OK, so where's the 15.10-omega iso?
<elfy> currently it is still called 15.04-arch.iso :)
<elfy> not even named yet - so that's a bit of an issue for the wibbly images :p
<drc> Isn't kinda late to be choosing a name?  I thought they usually announced that a release ahead of schedule?
<elfy> mmm 
<drc> Maybe the rumor about negotiating for Wascally Wabit is trye....
<elfy> well I don't know, and I've not heard anything 
<elfy> and if I was getting anywhere close to divulging things I shouldn't - pleia2 would !ops me :D
<drc> Just "rumblings" on a couple of lists/channels
<elfy> yea for sure 
<elfy> I'm not loud enough with the Wibbly Whinocewos 
<elfy> apart from here http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=427
<Guest96557> hi, im sorry to interrupt the quietness here, im wondering why im not able to upgrade from 14.10 to 15.04 through update-manager -d since i thought a "devel" update is always possible
<holstein> OvenWerks: thats a good poing
<holstein> point*
<elfy> wasn't sure if it was a pong or a point for a moment then :D
<OvenWerks> perhaps wrong channel?  :)
<holstein> for me? that was an out dated response..
<holstein> 00:31 < OvenWerks> holstein: check if he used the start disk maker in the system menu and is running live. The problem went away when I used dd 
<holstein> biggest issue there was language barrier..
<OvenWerks> holstein: Ahh. It is just that I had the same problem a few days ago.
 * dkessel happily edits the wibbly QA pad
<Unit193> elfy: FWIW, encryption in Xubuntu vivid worked except when trying to unlock with plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo.
<knome> elfy, hullo
<dkessel> uh-oh: Work with the tracker developers to get out more meaningful data: TODO
 * dkessel hides :)
<knome> dkessel, yes, i'm looking at you
<knome> dinner soon
<dkessel> knome: heh - yeah, let's see what can be done about the tracker needs the other day
<dkessel> woooo ping notifications are working again for quassel in xubuntu 15.04 =D
<Unit193> dkessel: Oh no, now you'll know when we're talking to you.
<dkessel> ...if i am on the laptop, and not on the phone, where the quassel connection is really unstable ;)
<dkessel> Unit193: yes, be careful when mentioning my name now :)
<knome> dkessel dkessel dkessel dkessel 
<knome> oops
<Unit193> Wait, why are we pinging dkessel?
<elfy> yay pinging dkessel works now I see
<elfy> Unit193: it's sunday in dkessel world - reason enough 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-25
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<bluesabre> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-development
<bluesabre> Development blueprint created ^
<bluesabre> Created xenial series for xubuntu-default-settings, changes for yakkety can continue in trunk https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/xenial
<Unit193> bluesabre: "Get xfdashboard in" too?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, please add that
<Unit193> Done.
<bluesabre> thanks!
<krytarik> Also, wrong MP link. :P
<bluesabre> working on getting branches together
<bluesabre> I copied from the previous blueprint
<krytarik> Yep, figured.
<bluesabre> correct link?
<Unit193> Aren't almost all those carried anyway?
<krytarik> bluesabre: Well, there isn't an MP for that currently. :P
<bluesabre> very well :D
<bluesabre> let me know what I can do to help things move along this cycle... going to try to knock things out early so I can work on xfce gtk3 porting
<bluesabre> probably going to work on the document templates this week
<krytarik> bluesabre: However, I'd just add the branch links there, i.e.: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base , https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base , https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> xubuntu-artwork yakkety branch set up and linked to lp:xubuntu-artwork https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/yakkety
<bluesabre> krytarik: thanks
<bluesabre> nice, http://dev.xubuntu.org/ automatically picked up the new development bp - good work knome
<bluesabre> phew
<bluesabre> daily builds of everything should be updated for yakkety now
<bluesabre> haven't touched the other builds yet
<Unit193> Hah, I'd disabled the skippy build. :P
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre does not discriminate against packages
<Unit193> Well, xfd and hot kind of do something like that, and we ended up not doing anything at all with skippy. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, breaking out elementary?
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh yes, that too!
<bluesabre> not sure what a good title is for that though
<bluesabre> and my brain is done for the night
<bluesabre> feel free to add that workitem
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> G'nigjty.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://mentors.debian.net/package/menulibre
<jimmy_> Hello
<flocculant> bluesabre: you going to add yakkety to daily ppa? 
<jimmy_> i am afraid you won't get any answer here
<jimmy_> this is a desert in cyberspace
<flocculant> jimmy_: the trick is to leave the question at the nearest oasis and check the answer when you next see it
<jimmy_> I see! :D
<jimmy_> Anyways I have sent an Email to mirror@ubuntu.com
<flocculant> jimmy_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anna/+bug/1549644/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546459 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1549644 segfault at b774bd9d ip b7352a0d sp bfda8f30 error 7 in libresolv-2.19.so[b7349000+13000]" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> might help you 
<flocculant> oh bah
<knome> bluesabre, of course :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: need to release 2.2.0 first
<bluesabre> flocculant: I did, probably just waiting for initial builds
<bluesabre> Unit193: also need to learn the new workflow now that papt is no longer using svn
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke :)
<mexchip> good morning/afternoon all, I'd like some help with my upgrade from Xubuntu 14.04 to Xubuntu 16.04
<mexchip> I have a Dell Inspiron laptop, it came with windows 8 and I updated it to Windows 10, since I got the laptop, I installed Xubuntu 14.04 on it
<mexchip> I have several partitions on the hdd
<mexchip> sda1 to sda9
<mexchip> xubuntu 14.04 was installed on sda7, and sda8 was used as swap
<mexchip> yesterday I tried to install xubuntu 16.04
<mexchip> I selected "erase and reinstall", and checked the sda7 partition to be formatted
<mexchip> however, just before starting, the installer indicated that it'd modify partitions #10 and #11
<mexchip> I think that's not correct, since last partition is sda9
<mexchip> I guess the installer was trying to use "new" partition
<mexchip> so, I selected the "something else" option and manually indicated that I wanted / to be mounted on sda7 and have it formatted
<mexchip> and sda8 as swap
<mexchip> I'm trying the installer just now
<mexchip> selected "erase Xubuntu 16.04 and reinstall"
<mexchip> I get this message for the partitions to be formatted:
<mexchip> partition #10 of SDSI (0,0,0) (sda) as ext4
<mexchip> partition #8 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) sda as swap
<mexchip> but I'm sure I don't have a #10 partition, the last one is sda9, and it's a ntfs one
<mexchip> so I go back and select "Something else"
<mexchip> yesterday I indicated / to be mounted to sda7
<mexchip> and sda8 to be used as swap
<mexchip> but I indicated to install the bootloader to /dev/sda, and when starting the system I get a grub rescue console
<mexchip> I tried reinstalling grub using the installation media
<mexchip> but when running grub-install /dev/sda I get this message:
<mexchip> grub-install: error: failed to get canonical path of '/cow'.
<mexchip> I think the problem is that this is an UEFI system, last time I did this sort of things (installing GRUB) I only worked with so called "legacy boot" systems
<mexchip> what do I need to indicate the installer for the "device for boot loader installation" option?
<mexchip> a specific partition?
<krytarik> mexchip: Support is actually in #xubuntu - which might be the reason why you seem to be doing a monologue here.
<mexchip> krytarik sorry, I'm going to #xubuntu now
<mexchip> thanks
<flocculant> knome: if we produced some How to ... video's - is there somewhere in xubuntu space we can host them? If not - that we could :)
<flocculant> alternatively they could be youtube or something I guess
<flocculant> bluesabre: re package tracker - given experience not sure we should do that this cycle - but given the few things we have had issues with lately for whatever reason - we could create a short suite with specific things in it - even produce more specific tests for that limited number - bit more detail on http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle 
<knome> re: videos, i would probably look to upload them to youtube/vimeo/insert a video service here
<knome> there's little benefit in hosting them ourself
<flocculant> thought so - just wanted to check - we'd be linking to them obviously
<knome> if somebody wants to create a series of videos, and wants to make them more "official", we can definitely set up a xubuntu account for that
<flocculant> though it might help if you knew what they were :D
<flocculant> QA things 
<knome> maybe...
<knome> yeah, we can totally set something up
<flocculant> not just randomness
<knome> ack
<flocculant> wb :)
<Unit193> Danke.
<Unit193> Uploaded new xfce4-eyes-plugin.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-26
<Guest34819> anyone around?
<davmor2> Guest34819: lots
<Guest34819> I'm on 16.04 and I've a few notes
<Guest34819> where should I put them?
<davmor2> Guest34819: in bugs against the projects involved preferably at a guess if they are issues.
<Guest34819> at a guess?
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<bluesabre> flocculant: the pad looks fine, agreed with the short suite of please-test
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - I'll sort that out then
<flocculant> do you want more detailed testing on anything? 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: added vids to the blueprint now - I assume it was you added them to the pad :D
<akxwi-dave> Hi flocculant , yes it was... Didn't it record my name.. :-(
<flocculant> no - just a different colour - which is what it does - if you went back it should have the same colour if you added something new
<flocculant> afaik
<akxwi-dave> ahh, so putting my name in the box next to the colour don't work..
<flocculant> well if you went there now - you'd show as akxwi-dave or whatever rather than un-named :)
<akxwi-dave> oh and gotta thank xenial..  becaus eof the new changes to ATI cards.. managed to talk the missues into buying me a gpu... :-)
<akxwi-dave> New GPU*
 * flocculant just makes it plainly obvious who is doing videos on the blueprint :D
<flocculant> ahh - nice call :)
<akxwi-dave> lol...
<akxwi-dave> another reason I used as well actually.. :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: bit undecided about trello - seems like a lot of work for not much gain
<flocculant> about the only thing I found useful was dates against calls
<flocculant> but given this cycle will be less rigid ... 
<akxwi-dave> could we use a shared google calendar or something simlar to achieve the same thing?
<flocculant> we can invite *us* to things on g-calendar and they show up on the tracker calendar
<flocculant> knome: dates on dev.tracker burndown are they propogated from the @ blah lines on y-topic whiteboard? 
<flocculant> think even if we don't participate - useful to know when the other millstone dates are 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also - release note - want to mull that over with you at some point
<akxwi-dave> Just let me know when..
<flocculant> shouldn't take long - but lunchtime's not the best for me 
<flocculant> either an evening or weekend - or even mail at a push
<flocculant> bbl
<akxwi-dave> kk, grab me one night when ready
<flocculant> abck nwo
<Unit193> Want to try again?
<flocculant> cbka won
<flocculant> Unit193: still a bit lost as to what you want us to do with the core iso tracker thing?
 * flocculant wonders if Alberto will reply to the hundredpapercuts concern we have now that it's on a mailing list ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - got package testsuite up for yakkety
<flocculant> except for something for themes 
<flocculant> have to think about that 
<nairwolf> Hi everyone ;) Have you seen this video ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLNqn2wjGms 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pooooooooke.
<knome> flocculant, yep (re: dates on dev.x.o)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-27
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> flocculant: great!
<Unit193> bluesabre: 1. skippy-xd is still actually disabled, not building daily.  2. Did you want to try to get any of the other extras in?  Or we doing anything with them? (skippy-xd, xfce4-hamster-plugin, xfce4-soundmenu-plugin/libmpris2client/xfce4-hotcorner-plugin.)  3. How's your MOTU stuff coming? ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: 1. aha, I thought I had just triggered a single build. 2. Not as interested in skippy-xd or hamster, but can definitely go for soundmenu-plugin and hotcorner-plugin probably pairs well with xfdashboard. 3. No progress.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and the mugshot thing was just a FYI, I randomly saw it so linked. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, I'd disabled it at the time because we'd not done anything and xfdashy sees much better support.  Understandable, I don't care about those either, and pulseaudio kind of trumps soundmenu for me.  hotcorner I finally took a look at, packaging needs fixed but does pair with dashboard some.
<Unit193> Bummer, need to get to work on MOTU. ;)
<bluesabre> yeah, maybe that will be one of my goals this cycle
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Basically I want to follow you in on that one. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: re extras - kind of play with dashboard, same with the sound thing for a bit - not sure what we gain from that though - but if we're looking to go there I can swap that in
<flocculant> will do same with corner if it turns up
<bluesabre> flocculant: unlikely we'd swap to xfdashboard, but others use it... possibility of moving to soundmenu plugin or pulseaudio plugin one day
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - no rush on those then I assume 
<flocculant> bluesabre: what's your take on not bothering with beta 1 ? 
<flocculant> knome: added beta 1 date to topic-y, any idea what date we could put there for 16.04.1 - all I can see anywhere is August ... 
<flocculant> trusty .1 appears to be last week of July 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I agree with not doing b1, it's worked well for ubuntu proper after all
<flocculant> knome: nvm - that last question have the answer now :)
<flocculant> knome: that said - added dates to y-topic and they're not on the burndown
<knome> flocculant, it's refreshed either once a day or once a week, don't remember
<flocculant> that in particular happens less often then I guess
<flocculant> thanks :)
<knome> yep. np
<knome> one of the reasons why i've been thinking/preparing a move to maintain some of the data internally
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> though tbh - something like this isn't as important as refreshing bp items - at least imo
<knome> of course
<knome> that's why it isn't happening as often
<flocculant> yup
<knome> but it would also be one of the most trivial things to maintain internally too
<flocculant> anyway you can see from y-topic what's been added :)
<knome> i did
<flocculant> :)
<knome> feel free to add dates that are useful for you
<flocculant> yup
<knome> one of the reasons it's open is that everybody should be able to manage the data :P
<flocculant> pretty sure I'll not be bothering with trello this cycle - different focus 
<flocculant> indeed ;)
<flocculant> and any dates I'd really be interested will be on the burndown when it refreshes :)
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> knome: any idea when you're setting meeting for?
<knome> i was trying to get ahold of ochosi to make sure he can attend
<knome> but if i'm not getting a reply soonish, i'll just do something
<knome> probably next week
<knome> not wednesday, that's for sure :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> and for ochosi I would guess evening :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> which helps me too :p
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - if I could have a bit of early cycle social media'ing that'd be nice :) 
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-April/011149.html
<knome> flocculant, tweeted
<flocculant> you're a gentleman :)
<knome> hah :)
<Unit193> flocculant: We using Trello at all this cycle?
<flocculant> Unit193: I'm doubting so given we're not package tracking like we have been doing, and look rather unlikely we'll be doing more than final beta
<flocculant> and tbh - didn't really use it last cycle much
<Unit193> If so, I'll disable the tracking thing.
<flocculant> Unit193: okey doke
<knome> Sebastien, you'll want to look at this list: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/documentation.html#docs-packages
 * Sebastien clicks
<nairwolf> ping bluesabre : are you here ? I would like to talk to you
<Unit193> Whatcha got?  And not usually at this time.
<nairwolf> ok, so, I will send him a mail
<Unit193> He'll turn up sooner or later.
<nairwolf> Yes, but it's not really urgent
<nairwolf> Any idea when this bug will be fixed ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> Because it's a really annoying bug, and it could afraid some "newbies"...
<bluesabre> Evening all (from my phone, expect typos)
<nairwolf> Good evening bluesabre ;)
<bluesabre> nairwolf: no familiarity with kernel level and device drivers, so can't say how long as I can't fix it
<bluesabre> :)
<nairwolf> Is it something specific to Xubuntu ? 
<nairwolf> By the way, look your email, I've sent you an email
<nairwolf> I would like to join the xubuntu developers team
<ochosi> yeah, unfortunately that one is not for us to fix
<ochosi> and evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> nairwolf, relevant link:http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/
<nairwolf> obviously, I've already read this link ;)
<nairwolf> but thank you
<nairwolf> I'm going to bed now, I hope being able to speak with you by mail, or on irc, maybe this week-end
<nairwolf> Good night all ;)
<ochosi> nairwolf: the bug will feel specific to xubuntu and lubuntu
<bluesabre> nairwolf, basically find a few bugs you're interested in fixing, or some code you want to contribute to, and suggest some merge proposals
<bluesabre> nairwolf, team membership starts with sustained contributions, more or less
<ochosi> nairwolf: or more general: all DEs using light-locker, because it switches VTs, and that sounds like the part of the problem
<bluesabre> (The short and sweet version from my phone)
<nairwolf> bluesabre: I'm looking for easy bugs in order to start correctly. 
<bluesabre> Great!
<bluesabre> Hey ochosi
<nairwolf> this annoying bug seems difficult. Same thing for thunar bugs, it's an old bug, and I doubt I could help
<nairwolf> I figure I have to explore xubuntu specific packages and see what I would like to do, indeed ;)
<nairwolf> Thanks ochosi 
<nairwolf> see you
<bluesabre> ochosi, still around? knome is planning the next meeting and wants your availability
<knome> bluesabre, i got him on PM already
<bluesabre> knome, nice! Thought I'd try to help
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-28
<sidi> eeeew what a night
<sidi> just done repackaging firejail and half of my PPA
<ralle> hallo, wer kann mir denn einmal helfen
<knome> !de | ralle 
<ubottu> ralle: In den meisten Ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuche bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Einfach "/join #ubuntu-de" eingeben. Danke fÃ¼r Dein VerstÃ¤ndnis!
<slickymaster> knome, I won't be able to attend next meeting as it coincides with little one's periodic medical appointment
<knome> slickymaster, too bad, then you will be surely selected as the new workhorse aka XPL
<slickymaster> lol, seriously doubt that :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: You're more likely than me!
<slickymaster> nah, you're a few yards ahead of me Unit193 
<Unit193> Hah!
<Unit193> Also if someone is logged into the wiki, they can likely remove the agenda item with my name on it.  We kind of already talked about it and it's in the platform seed so nothing we can do anyway.
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hello good sir.
<bluesabre> knome: also can't make it to the meeting, work hours
<bluesabre> hi Unit193
<Unit193> So we can have bluesabre as the XPL, cool.
<bluesabre> oh boy more work :P
<knome> yai
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-29
<flocculant> Unit193: I did that for you
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> mostly because you can do all that packagy stuff but not edit a wiki page :p
<Unit193> Wikis are hard, or at least logging in is. :3
<flocculant> I think  they might have looked at that
<flocculant> whilst coming up with all ways to make it harder :p
<flocculant> not really sure milestones needs to be there - given that qa and tech lead and web lead say no to b1 and no-one else cares enough to comment
<flocculant> and I'll always -1 any raspberry pi thing officially 
<flocculant> so can just wait for the workhorse ping :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: re thunar and testing - been thinking about this - not sure quite what we can do with the current testcase - other than ask people to sit there copy/pasting till they see problems - then how long do we ask them to do it for ;)
<flocculant> or we could add a very specific testcase - sit there copy/pasting > how long did it take to crash on you? 
<flocculant> did it crash quicker post-crash? 
<flocculant> or: did you give up and use a different file manager :p
<Unit193> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1576576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576576 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> flocculant: if the gui automation (whats that called again) worked with gtk2, we could easily make a script to test it
<flocculant> yea  - but it doesn't :p
<flocculant> and I've given up thinking about it tbh ;)
<flocculant> knome: when you've got 10 minutes or so and it's not lunch time can we haz chat about buildlog and tracker thingymajig :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll figure something out
<knome> flocculant, i'll be on and off today, but feel free to talk about something and i'll reply when i'm back ;)
<flocculant> knome: no rush - really don't want a disjointed discussion
<flocculant> knome: added some about this to very top of http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle
<Unit193> ochosi: In case you didn't see, there was also "interesting" discussions with that link to the bug.
<flocculant> tried hard not to ramble too much
<flocculant> Unit193: in -desktop or on bug? 
<Unit193> -devel, actually.
<flocculant> oh right - well that just seems really pointless for me to idle in :)
<ochosi> Unit193: uhm when what where?
<ochosi> (sry, i vaguely remember you posting a link to a gtk3.20 lp bug today but i was too busy @work to read9
<Unit193> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1576576 I linked to this, there was discussion in -devel at 04:21 local time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576576 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<flocculant> evening ochosi :)
<Unit193> Basically a GNOME guy and unity peeps talking about if they're going to update this cycle.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well no worries i'll work on the greybird rewrite soon
<ochosi> so we'll be good either way
<ochosi> the only thing that could bite us is if xfce applications inject css
<ochosi> cause that will fail
<Unit193> Unity wasn't so interested in updating gtk3, actually.  It was interesting, they have nobody at all that really understands themes now. :P
<ochosi> or: will need patches for 3.20 compat
<ochosi> yeah, i know. i talked to larsu at fosdem before he left the desktop team and canonical altogether
<ochosi> basically they'll have to switch to adwaita soon if they don't find anyone who maintains their themes
<ochosi> would have to be a community member from what i see
<Unit193> Oh?  Wow, that's lovely.
<flocculant> mmm
<Unit193> ochosi: Know if satya will be working on Numix? :P
<ochosi> i think they're already working on it
<ochosi> so numix should be good i guess
<Unit193> Eric seems to have taken an interest in Blackbird, no?
<Unit193> menulibre 2.0.7-1.1 uploaded by Samuel Henrique Oltramari Pinto (SamuelOPH) (Closes: #811324)
<nairwolf> Hi guys (and specially flocculant), can you look this bug and see if you are able to reproduce it, please ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-appfinder/+bug/1576771
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576771 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "Window can't be reduced horizontally" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> flocculant: g+ and fb done re: irc sessions
<pleia2> I'll try to keep an eye on it to see if people yay in those places ;)
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<flocculant> I think I see fb stuff - but maybe not
<flocculant> pleia2: re  counting - I'll probably ask for a bump in a week or so - then see what 'yay's' we had - then follow up
<flocculant> I will follow up with either a 'nope then' or more detail 
<pleia2> okie
<flocculant> pleia2: freudian almost  ... "but you're welcome to follow this path. Since our team handling the official social media is very small[0"
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> nairwolf: I saw that bug - not looked in detail yet - will try tomorrow if I get chance
<nairwolf> ok, so we'll talk to that tomorrow if I can be here also. (Should be outstide this saturday)
<nairwolf> dinner time, see you. 
<knome> flocculant, we probably want to just look at the source (not LP) for the builds, should be relatively simple to fetch that data
<flocculant> mmk 
<nairwolf> knome: which sources ? 
<knome> nairwolf, build log
<knome> flocculant, also left a comment on the pad
<nairwolf> oh, ok
<knome> nairwolf, if you are very interested in *any* discussions happening on this channel, i'd suggest you to either 1) get a shell so you can get a bnc/client always stay on the channel so you can check the backlog 2) start reading the logs found from irclogs.ubuntu.com
<nairwolf> knome: Usually, I'm reading logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com, but this time, I didn't
<flocculant> knome: yea - thought second might be better
<flocculant> re multiple builds - they're only likely to happen when milestone - or someone from release team triggers a rebuild
<knome> yeah, but the tracker doesn't know when that happens
<flocculant> s/likely/going to afaik
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> all tracker knows is date.1
<knome> so it needs to check a possible .1/.x rebuild every time
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> or shows
<knome> the tracker i'm referring to here is dev.xubuntu.org
<flocculant> oh
<knome> but sure, the iso tracker too
<flocculant> well I'm referring to what shows on iso
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> all that aside
<flocculant> in fact - we 'could' end up in the same position as we would get from autotest
<flocculant> eg build builds - build lands on iso tracker - dev tracker says 'yay'
<flocculant> but it doesn't actually work
<flocculant> the only way to get around that is Last options thinking: 
<knome> well, i was thinking about something like asking http headers to see if a file exists
<flocculant> if that's possible 
<flocculant> from iso.tracker? 
<bluesabre> evening alllll
<knome> ugh, no, i most likely won't touch the ISO tracker :P
<knome> but i can talk to matthew in SF in june...
<flocculant> knome: mmm
<flocculant> who's matthew? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: evening :)
<knome> MatthewAllen, from code-in
<knome> didn't he poke the tracker too?
<bluesabre> hey flocculant knome
<flocculant> knome: well - a positive from the image test on the tracker is the only real positive
<knome> 'lo bluesabre 
<flocculant> all the others are positives that we have a build
<knome> yep
<flocculant> and if the build includes a broken ubiquity ... 
<knome> ;)=
<Unit193> bluesabre: /lastlog menulibre, just an FYI.
<flocculant> knome: if it's possible to do - the iso tracker would be my preference unfortunately :p
<flocculant> assuming we can move cron time of build
<knome> flocculant, ack
<knome> let's see
<flocculant> ok 
<knome> i need to think this with no smudge on the brain :P
<flocculant> anyway - I think we're both up to speed on the 'what' at least :)
<knome> and by smudge i mean snot
<flocculant> :(
<flocculant> still full of it then 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> well, kind of the aftermath
<knome> didn't have much of it coming out when i was "really" sick
<flocculant> almost worst
<knome> yep
<flocculant> yea - pretty normal state of affairs in my experience 
<knome> but that happens, so...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so good luck with gtk2 and autotest :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: probably going to look at other options
<nairwolf> I think I've discovered a bug on Mousepad. 
<nairwolf> Open mousepad, write some stupid thoughts, then do alt+f4 and click on "Do not save" it's not highlighted as other options
<nairwolf> no, do not click on "do not save", but move the cursor with the keyboard to "do not save"
<nairwolf> Do you see this bug ? 
<bluesabre> I do see that bug
<bluesabre> feel free to report it :)
<nairwolf> ok
<nairwolf> Done : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1576890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576890 in mousepad (Ubuntu) ""Do not save" option isn't highlighted " [Undecided,New]
<nairwolf> As I'm not an native english speaker tell me if something isn't clear
<nairwolf> I will edit my description
<bluesabre> I'd say that it's not highlighted in the same way the other buttons are
<nairwolf> It's a graphical issue, so it seems hard for me to solve this bug. But, I'll try to see what I can do
<nairwolf> Next week, I will be in holydays, so I should start to work the next week
<nairwolf> ok, thanks
<nairwolf> I've edited the bug report
<nairwolf> Now, it's time to go to bed. See you bluesabre ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-30
<flocculant> nairwolf: not able to confirm bug 1576771 - I can resize the window down to as far as any other window resizes
<ubottu> bug 1576771 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "Window can't be reduced horizontally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576771
<nairwolf> flocculant: Hi, are you sure to reduce at the maximum the menu bar ? 
<nairwolf> Because if the menubar on the left is displayed it works. 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/nCpEs7q.png
<nairwolf> oh yes, and you can reduce the window ? 
<flocculant> that's reduced as much as any window reduces to
<nairwolf> I need to try on a VM
<flocculant> nairwolf: that or login as a guest
<nairwolf> yes, except that I can't close my session right now
<flocculant> nairwolf: well you don't *have* to do it immediately :D
<nairwolf> indeed
<flocculant> :)
<nairwolf> I'm actually trying to write correctly chinese characters
<nairwolf> flocculant: I've tried in a VM, by default it works, you can reduce the window. But, go on preferences and click on "view items as icons". Now the window can't be reduced
<nairwolf> You can increase the window, and when you increase and add a new row of icons, then you can't reduce more
<nairwolf> Can you confirm that flocculant ?
<flocculant> nairwolf: yep - reported it upstream and added bug watch
<flocculant> that said - doesn't seem that important to me at least - not sure I'd not want the left menu sidebar :)
<flocculant> nairwolf: thanks for reporting it though :)
<flocculant> I confirmed the mousepad issue 
<nairwolf> maybe for you, but it's annoying for me because I don't want the left menu sidebar
<nairwolf> Usually, I use xfce4-appfinder with a shortcut (super+a) and I just write the software I want to launch
<nairwolf> And it's really fast
<nairwolf> For me, it's useless to have menu (but I understand for some people it's interesting). 
<nairwolf> Thank you for your correction in the bug report
<nairwolf> I've edited the first description to add the condition "see items as icons"
<flocculant> nairwolf: so if you shortcut then type - why use appfinder ? I have whisker on right super - one key type name
<flocculant> anyway - that's all as long as it's broad - some people use just shortcuts for lots of things I would think :)
<nairwolf> Is it possible to open whisker with one key ? I need to try that ! 
<nairwolf> whisker isn't something from Xfce right ?
<flocculant> whisker menu is the default menu in xubuntu
<nairwolf> yes, but is it something from Xfce or is it something added by Xubuntu ? 
<nairwolf> flocculant: what is the command line used to launch whisker ? 
<flocculant> xubuntu
<nairwolf> ok, that's what I thought
<flocculant> xfce4-popup-whiskermenu
<nairwolf> oh, really, how I can miss that ? Thanks ;)
<dkessel> uh. the mouse cursor just came back after locking the screen. what is happening here? :)
<flocculant> confusionattack I guess
<ochosi> bluesabre: "(...) this will put clutter on the path towards retirement." https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2016/04/29/yet-another-gtk-update/
<ochosi> bluesabre: so probably should wait for gtk3.22 for fixing parole's clutter backend
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-01
<flocculant> bluesabre: can you have a look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar please - made a start, really think we should get this moving along :)
<flocculant> as soon as you're ok - I'll get the testcase on the tracker and then calls out 
<flocculant> knome: going to do an mp for our cd build times - so whichever way we end up going - if indeed we do - the builds are done really early UTC
<flocculant> or at least I think I've found the right thing to do mp for :D
<knome> :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: so quite quickly then - release notes
<flocculant> renamed it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNote
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> planning to make that a 'rolling' thing
<akxwi-dave> sounds good
<flocculant> that takes more than 1 person getting fed up with it :D
<akxwi-dave> well 2 of usat least
<flocculant> if at least a couple of us could take it in turns - kind of week on week off - to try our best to keep it current
<flocculant> that would be awesome
<akxwi-dave> as picard would say.. "make it so"
<flocculant> I would like to be able to ping the url to testers/tracker 
<flocculant> so that they know what's up
<flocculant> then - at release - we can just copy current testing to that name - ie yakkety
<akxwi-dave> sound sensible
<flocculant> mostly - the important thing is - if you change the rolling one - change the date in the 'wiki warning' 
<flocculant> Current edit state - 26.04.2016
<flocculant> thing ^^
<akxwi-dave> kk
<flocculant> in English ... 
<flocculant> :p
<akxwi-dave> yes sir o7
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: irc sessions looks as full as last cycle ... 
<flocculant> won't do that unless we have a few say yay :)
<akxwi-dave> 2 or 3 then
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I would rather 20 turn up and say sod all and read things to be honest
<akxwi-dave> thats one of the reasons i thought of the small vids.. for those that may not be comfatable with irc
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also - unlikely I'll bother setting up trello given little package setting up and no b1
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yup - that's a nicely positive thing for sure :)
<flocculant> might be worth you and I having a 1 to 1 on that before you do it - I can mail or pm phone number if you like
<flocculant> or we can vid or pad or ... 
<flocculant> or you can pm me your number - whatever :~)
<akxwi-dave> yep no prob mate..
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> see pm then
<flocculant> no rush on that 
<akxwi-dave> sorry had dog jumping on me.. sill thing shouldn't be jumping she has an op on her leg
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: re release note - I'll not be doing anything to changelogs till the last minute
<flocculant> I'm also going to run through the contr docs to make sure nothing says 'we WILL do'
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: last thing - wiki - xubuntu one
<flocculant> I have draft http://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/isotesting
<flocculant> which I believe covers that simply
<flocculant> anything else you can think of which would help - put it on the blueprint as a task
<akxwi-dave> thats very nice  :-)
<akxwi-dave> so much more simple for peeps
<flocculant> I'd like for us to have a set of basic pages there for testers
<flocculant> and on x.org wiki - we have some control :)
<akxwi-dave> that always helps :-)
<flocculant> given that you're brave enough to do the vids - least I can do is make wiki pages from notes - so use the ubuntu.pad thing and I will do that :D
<flocculant> yea :)
<akxwi-dave> deffo.. will do .... started on that need to type up,,
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> should have #startmeeting for this :p
<flocculant> also get knome to do me a !qateam factoid to ping people :D
<akxwi-dave> i'm gunna copy an paste it to g docs for me .:-)
<flocculant> well - in my logs now :D
<flocculant> thanks Dave :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: one more thing
<akxwi-dave> yep
<flocculant> started trying to sort our 'extra' thunar testcase before I do the deal and shout out - have a butchers at http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar
<flocculant> mostly notes amongst instructions - if you can see where I'm going   - try and fiddle a bit for bluesabre (sean) 
<flocculant> it's really easy to write these things when it is in your head 
<flocculant> shame ali1234 isn't here to look
<flocculant> krytarik or Unit193 could though :p
<akxwi-dave> aye.. got a fresh install onb real hardware to do testing.. will bash it about
 * flocculant has gone to kvm - some vbox update killed vbox
<akxwi-dave> ouch
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> done for me :D
<flocculant> also been looking at the gnome tool 
<flocculant> for a simple test - as long as we work out where to remove the ~/home file from
<flocculant> something really simple for a drive by tester
<flocculant> kind of a " do this rm path" deal
<flocculant> BUT really need to be sure that krytarik doesn't trash his ~home :p
<flocculant> so plans
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> unlike the webmaster that deleted all the sites his company hosted..
<knome> flocculant, PM me what you want in the factoid
<nairwolf> flocculant: I think transform the release notes to a 'rolling' thing could be great ;)
<flocculant> nairwolf: then I assume you're happy to help make that happen
<flocculant> everyone thinks that everything is a great idea - unfortunately 99% of people assume that they can just wait for things to happen
<knome> !qateam | flocculant 
<ubottu> flocculant: akxwi-dave, slickymaster, flocculant, knome
<nairwolf> Yes, I think I would be able to help
<nairwolf> Actually, you want to update the release notes every week, right ? If it's possible to create a task planning to do that, that would be great
<nairwolf> This week, I will be in holidays, so away from the computer, and I will not be able to follow new bugs or other things. 
<flocculant> knome: \o/
<flocculant> thanks :)
<knome> np
<flocculant> nairwolf: not possible to plan it - depends on what turns up on 1 - tracker, 2 - the other tracker or 3 - bug reports :)
<knome> and naturally, PM me again if you want changes to it
<flocculant> it's a WIP thing
<nairwolf> ok, flocculant. this will be discussed tomorrow during the meeting, right ? 
<flocculant> knome: ack - unless you happen to see changes :D
<knome> flocculant, yep, on channel is good too
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> nairwolf: nope - not on agenda
<flocculant> its' really a QA issue - which QA will decide on outside of any meeting
<flocculant> people reading the list will become aware of that 
<nairwolf> ok, so I will be informed of that
<nairwolf> Most of time, I don't really have any opinion. I'm just observing and trying to do the most I can. 
<flocculant> nairwolf: yup :)
<flocculant> when it's a discussion thing - add your points for sure
<flocculant> only time it is a team thing we tend to [TEAM] in topic
<nairwolf> Yes, if it's relevant, I will do it. If it's something I don't have any experience, it's difficult to know which is the best choice. 
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> basically
<flocculant> if it = work
<nairwolf> Yes, I've already seen that when you discussed about the media manager
<flocculant> only say it's a really good idea when will to do the work :)
<nairwolf> sorry ? 
<nairwolf> and by thay, the list you talked was xubuntu-devel, right ? 
<flocculant> nairwolf: aah s/will/willing
<nairwolf> s/thay/the way
<flocculant> yea - dev list
<nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-April/011145.html
<flocculant> for instance - happy to get 1000's of ideas
<flocculant> 13 people get to decide
<nairwolf> only knome has answered to this mail. Maybe you've discussed about that here (#xubuntu-devel), but I wasn't here. 
<nairwolf> Sometimes I think it's pretty hard to follow each discussion and ideas if it's mixed between email and irc. I suppose I should read irclogs each day in order to follow the development ? 
<nairwolf> s/the development/discussions
<flocculant> nairwolf: only other comment was on IRC from bluesabre - 'yup - that's fine with me'
<flocculant> paraphrasing
<nairwolf> Ok, I suppose it will be more developed tomorrow during the meeting. 
<nairwolf> Don't worry
<flocculant> nairwolf: no
<flocculant> it's not even on the agenda - I *might* mention it - but it's not a discussion item :)
<nairwolf> "milestone participation" is written at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/
<flocculant> nairwolf: mea culpa
<flocculant> ish
<flocculant> nairwolf: no - it's under announcements :D
<flocculant> cos I am bad man ;)
<flocculant> hello aaronraimist 
<nairwolf> hehe, now I see that ;)
<aaronraimist> hello  flocculant! Do you know what the status of this bug is? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> aaronraimist: It's still present on my system
<flocculant> aaronraimist: it's still an issue 
<flocculant> and not really something we can actually fix afaik - 
<flocculant> though we can SRU the fix
<nairwolf> flocculant: what is SRU ?
<flocculant> stable release update
<flocculant> nairwolf: if the fix showed up at the end of the wily cycle - we'd do nothing
<flocculant> if the fix shows up for the xenial cycle - it will likely land
<flocculant> same as the thunar issues
<nairwolf> yes, but we still need to fix it
<nairwolf> bluesabre told me it's specific to Xubuntu
<flocculant> aaronraimist: assume you are with intel driver then
<aaronraimist> flocculant: yes
<flocculant> nairwolf: yes - but if the problem was during a 9 month cycle - fixing it does not mean the fix would land for that release
<flocculant> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<flocculant> hoping :)
<nairwolf> ok, thanks ;)
<nairwolf> thanks flocculant ;)
<knome> nairwolf, we're aware certain bugs need fixing - repeating it won't make them fixed
<flocculant> aaronraimist: sorry - left channel then ... so best thing you can do here is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/+affectsmetoo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<flocculant> and make sure you are subscribed to it - when something is around which fixes the issue - then it'll get a specfic tag added - proposed-fix or something
<aaronraimist> flocculant: Yeah I already have done that, I just didn't know if there was anything else I could do. Who is responsible for fixing that issue?
<flocculant> at that point there is a fix in -proposed which you can try
<flocculant> this confirms fixes for everyone
<flocculant> aaronraimist: it's upstream - we think it is with xserver - or at least I do
<flocculant> I'm on yakkety - so am watching updates - I'll move my laptop over to yakkety - then talk to our tech team
<flocculant> it's not forgotten :)
<flocculant> knome: not sure that nairwolf was talking about more than the mechanics of getting a fix landed there :)
<nairwolf> yes, that's right, flocculant explained what I said correctly. Thank you
<flocculant> aaronraimist: as far as your bug comment goes - http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/x/xserver-xorg-video-intel/xserver-xorg-video-intel_2.99.917+git20160325-1ubuntu1/changelog we appeared to start seeing the issue after beginning of March
<nairwolf> flocculant: the link you gave me is really interesting ;)
<flocculant> nairwolf: sru one ?
<nairwolf> yes, sru one
<flocculant> ack
<flocculant> basically in a normal cycle now - 9 months - unlikely to see vague fixes landing
<flocculant> aaronraimist: and the last lightlocker change was december - so applying a bit of logic and hope ...
<flocculant> aaronraimist: if you feel adventurous enough - I actually confirmed locally that setting intel to use uxa instead of sna stopped the problem
<nairwolf> I've never used a non-LTS version, I've started to 14.04 and now, I'm one 16.04
<nairwolf> But, I will move to Yakkety when it will be released
<nairwolf> For a non-LTS version, if there is a security issue, I suppose it's something updated, right ? 
<flocculant> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135#30 and http://askubuntu.com/questions/225356/how-can-i-enable-the-sna-acceleration-method-for-intel-cards-under-ubuntu-12-04 I just changed sna to uxa in the file instead
<ubottu> Debian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> nairwolf: well - I'd not move from an LTS to a normal if I ran LTS as production - I'd just have a testing partition
<flocculant> I'm on yakkety already obviously
<aaronraimist> flocculant: That does appear to fix it for me too
<nairwolf> I used LTS as production because it was the first time I used Linux. But now, I think I can follow normal releases. 
<nairwolf> or, I can use yakkety like you maybe
<flocculant> aaronraimist: awesome - nice to get some confirmation of that - can you post to the LP bug again
<flocculant> I can confirm that uxa thing
<flocculant> nairwolf: ok - well what you need to bear in mind here is that in 2 or 3 months I'll have a xenial, broken yak, another broken yak and the one I'm using as installs :p
<flocculant> aaronraimist: thanks for looking into this btw :)
<nairwolf> flocculant: you use them in different partitions ? 
<flocculant> nairwolf: the way I work doesn't really work well if you need PC to actually do things for a job :)
<flocculant> all I NEED is music and vids mounted :p
<flocculant> nairwolf: I have *just* today cleared 4 broken installs/partitions
<nairwolf> I do not use my personal computer for a job, but I want something stable. Or without annoying bug. I do not have enough memory to use different partition for 2 os. So, I'm testing with VM or with my second computer. The second computer isn't used, so it's just something to test distribution on real hardware.  
<nairwolf> See you tomorrow for the meeting, I'm gonna sleep soon. 
<flocculant> nairwolf: hdd or memory is the problem?
<knome> flocculant, let's do it here then..
<flocculant> yup
<knome> so you'd like to see results from the QA tracker, right?
<flocculant> knome: so we know what we both want to achieve I Think
<flocculant> I would prefer to see tracker result
<knome> the QA tracker xmlrpc interface needs work :|
<flocculant> assuming I get the mp sorted - *I* or !qa would know that the image actually does boot
<knome> before that is done, i don't think it's sensible to pull out the data from that
<flocculant> those auto tests are cool - but
<flocculant> I have booted and installed from an image the autotest has failed
<flocculant> I trust them not
<flocculant> so - if !qa isn't convinced of that  - my position would be a real sync and install
<flocculant> I can commit to doing that
<knome> right
<flocculant> personally
<knome> well,
<knome> we can show the build result anyway
<flocculant> yup
<knome> if we want
<knome> that is trivial enough
<knome> but getting data out of the QA tracker... oh my..
<flocculant> knome: generally in my experience if file size is <190kb something is wring
<flocculant> s/wring/wrong
<knome> heh
<knome> right
<knome> probably, less line
<knome> +s
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> krytarik - got anything to add to buildlog sizes? 
<flocculant> knome: I thought getting tracker info might be pants ... :(
<knome> let's put it this way
<knome> working with the xmlrpc backend code isn't horribly hard
<knome> but it's not something i want to dig into
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> fair enough
<knome> if we could get somebody from the general QA community at least a bit interested in that...
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> the last time i worked with that, it was like
<flocculant> knome: ok so how about this then
<knome> do one request
<knome> you get information bit A
<knome> then do another request with that bit
<knome> and you get information bit B
<flocculant> *we* have a file somewhere that !qa can access
<knome> then repeat until you get your information bit K
<flocculant> *we* set yay or nay
<knome> hmm...
<flocculant> dev.tracker reads that? 
<knome> we can integrate that directly to dev.
<knome> would it be true/false/null for each day?
<flocculant> if yay+yay=gree,. yay+nay=amber, nay+nay=red
<flocculant> green
<knome> oh right, multiple votes
<flocculant> or nay+yay
<knome> or do you mean the other would be the build log?
<flocculant> knome: forget logs
<knome> ok
<knome> so what are the two different things?
<flocculant> if that was simpler - then as long as I can mp the cron
<flocculant> I can commit to booting and installing while the kettle blois
<knome> as i said, the build log is tricial
<flocculant> boils
<knome> *trivial
<knome> that's not a/the problem
<knome> iso tracker stuff is
<flocculant> no need if we go this way
<knome> ok
<knome> then explain: you said yay+yay
<knome> what are the data points?
<flocculant> all we would need to do is commit to editing a file (or even leaving it as it is)
<flocculant> knome: moving to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle
<knome> k
<flocculant> right at the bottom
<knome> oh right, the two images
<knome> >__<
<knome> would something like "always light green until confirmed, after which green/red/orange" ?
<knome> resetting at midnight
<knome> or should the default assumption be the status of the previous day?
<flocculant> my mp does 1am for daily/2am for trusty
<knome> well think midnight as build time
<knome> forget the time thing for now
<knome> we can set the cron on dev. to anything
<flocculant> so if we commit to updating file by 8am ish - by 10 am the tracker will be current - just about the same time as current build time
<flocculant> knome: ftr any cron I talk about will be cd build (for logs)
<flocculant> we just need to make the *file* both -website and -qa writable
<flocculant> is that a simpler method? 
<knome> the simplest method for me - considering we want some data shown on dev - is that we create an UI where you change the stuff you want to show
<knome> at this point, it would be touchable by anyone who has a password
<flocculant> wfm
<knome> specifically when we do that, dev. doesn't need to poke any external source
<flocculant> that's better imo
<knome> it has the status on its database, so it doesn't need any cron
<knome> except the resetting stuff
<knome> well, which is automatic too
<flocculant> we have the control then
<knome> (it just checks if there is a status for today)
<flocculant> my cron *issue* is making sure I can sync locally when I get up
<flocculant> which is a seperate issue from -team's
<knome> but that's not dev.'s issue?
<flocculant> nope
<knome> ack
<knome> don't get me wrong... i want to support stuff as good as i can
<knome> but i'm mostly only worried about the work i need to do :D
<flocculant> I'll do the mp - then talk to adam conrad
<knome> i'll try to get this implemented early next week
<flocculant> knome: yup :)
<flocculant> you are in !qa 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> or tomorrow if i'm productive
<flocculant> now
<knome> sure, but that's a different worry :P
<flocculant> this you do have a worry over :)
<knome> of course i always have worries over many things :P
<knome> but related to this specific issue, my main concern is to get the dev. code in order
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/IHJvTWr.png
<knome> yeah?
<flocculant> I'd REALLY like it in that line :~)
<knome> indeed, it will be there
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> or do you mean the status itself?
<nairwolf> flocculant: I have ssd so I don't have so much space. But maybe I should be able to reserve some place in the second ssd I have, I'll see
<flocculant> knome: 64:green/amber/red 32:green/amber/red
<flocculant> is my vision
<knome> ok, what's amber?
<flocculant> knome: one arch failed
<knome> but... 64 is one arch
<knome> so why 64 would have amber if 32 failed?
<flocculant> because 1 failed
<knome> (since you can see that 32 is red)
<flocculant> oh yea
<knome> :D
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> so my vision is
<flocculant> so green/red then :)
<knome> light green -> unconfirmed status (from last confirmed status)
<knome> green -> confirmed pass
<knome> light red -> unconfirmed fail
<knome> red -> confirmed fail
<knome> that for both of the arches separately
<knome> and unconfirmed is automatic, so you only have two statuses to worry about in the UI
<flocculant> knome: brb
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> knome: ok 
<flocculant> so then unless *someone*edits file to equal something other than pass - icons are both green?
<nairwolf> see you tomorrow, good night
<flocculant> is that what you're saying?
<knome> flocculant, unless nobody edits, then the icons are light green/red, based on the last confirmed status
<knome> so if you confirmed pass today, tomorrow it'd be light green until you confirm anything
<knome> (=assuming same status)
<flocculant> then darker?
<knome> darker when confirmed
<flocculant> ok
<knome> so think light as in 0.5 opacity (or so)
<flocculant> - so just to tie this up now
<flocculant> assuming build 
<flocculant> assuming pas
<flocculant> dark colour
<knome> no
<knome> :D
 * flocculant pours beer
<knome> i'll write something on the pad
<flocculant> knome: you write stuff on pad
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> ok, there's all the alternatives now
<flocculant> yup there now
<knome> assuming it's "tuesday" now
<flocculant> yep
<knome> and "always assume build is up"
<knome> unless you want to do something else
<flocculant> knome: that looks good to me - thanks for working through what we can do in-house here :)
<flocculant> and tia for getting it on the tracker :p
<knome> sure
<knome> and we can do more
<knome> in certain limits
<knome> but let's get this done first..
<flocculant> meh
<knome> what? :D
<flocculant> how the hell did I manage to find this to pull from lol 
<knome> this? :P
<flocculant> the cron thingy
<flocculant> :D
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> oh meh - this is just a maze in launchpad ... 
<knome> :)
 * flocculant just ask infinity where to pull from :p
<knome> da finger :P
<flocculant> anyway - once that's done all we should really worry about is dev daily - so shouldn't make any difference to the bones of what we talked about
<flocculant> just means that at some point - hiccup
<knome> :)
<flocculant> knome: ok mp done, hopefully desc of change makes some sense https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-cdimage/x-build-time/+merge/293489
<knome> flocculant, looks good enough
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> can do no more I suppose 
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> knome: I assume that this doesn't stop us proving 
<knome> no
<flocculant> assumed not - stupid question really :)
<flocculant> and only slickymaster and akxwi to tell for the time being
<flocculant> when live
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-24
<Spass> knome: the copyright notice in the xubuntu.org footer isn't showing current year - "Â© 2012â The Xubuntu team"
<Spass> or is it suppose to look that way?
<akxwi-dave> Spass:  Morning.. I rember this being brought up previosly, knome  mentioned thats the way it was supposed to be /.. i,e "2012 -  " 
<flocculant> yea 2012 - some time in the undisclosed future which we're not yet arrived at
<flocculant> though it could probably do with 2012 - rather than 2012-
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: made some more notes on the artful cycle pad re the irc session
<akxwi-dave> can you re link please.. just installed this machine
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-artful-packages
<akxwi-dave> nice one mate
<knome> Unit193, needs IS intervention, but yes..
<knome> Unit193, tbh i'd make /download the "real" link myself...
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-25
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r509 Replaced redundant files by symlinks... (by rod)
<ochosi> flocculant: what's the testing status of the thunar unfreeze patch? still good?
<ochosi> cause i'd go ahead and merge sometime this week
<ochosi> then distros have an easier time shipping it
<ochosi> and i can also consider a 1.6.12 release
<flocculant> ochosi: I have seen no bad reports 
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - so Thunar - assuming everyone is happy, sru route is land it in arty artichoke then we can sru? 
<flocculant> should probably be able to remember that from a month or so ago lol
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that would be the way to go
<ochosi> either as a patch on top of 1.6.11
<ochosi> or i release 1.6.12
<flocculant> well not sure really - but from a personal persepctive - new release would mean I remember what got fixed :D
<flocculant> that said - given that I don't do the work - you lot decide ...
<ochosi> i guess i'd have to make sure the additional commits that went into master don't break anything
<ochosi> although there's little critical stuff there
<flocculant> right
<Unit193> I'd think if you wait then you can catch other issues too, but if you go with a release more distros pick it up.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i know, that's always the tradeoff
<ochosi> although, had i not released 1.6.11 few would be using that code and the freeze might not have been discovered/fixed yet
<ochosi> but yeah, as this one is a tiny patch, i would be ok with shipping that on top of 1.6.11
<ochosi> it should still go into master though
<Unit193> Very much, yes. :P
 * Unit193 is tempted to try out d87a4a93b2ec4ab094f5a35ae818395f750f2891
<ochosi> Unit193: any reason why the 4.12 ppa was dropped?
<Unit193> ochosi: Trusty is EOL>
<ochosi> right, so it was only for trusty?
 * ochosi can't remember that PPA well
<Unit193> Yeah, thought about doing more, but xfce-4.12 != xfce-4.14 (== xfce-4.13)
<Unit193> That is to say, it only had trusty, and a long time ago precise, in it.
<flocculant> that was a long time ago
<ochosi> humm, what will we do with all the artwork for artsy
<ochosi> it will have to be especially special
<flocculant> the first thing we should do with the artwork for artsy - is decide if we're going to try letting community in - and then do what we decide sooner than the week before we need it :D
<Unit193> Thought that was more an LTS thing.
<flocculant> Unit193: mmm - so LTS we let community in right at the last minute - non-LTS we hassle knome right at the last minute :p
<Unit193> flocculant: Correct!
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> knome and I had some discussion on this just before right at the last minute a few weeks ago :p
<Unit193> ochosi: Pushing the patch?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i will do that sometime this week
<Unit193> ochosi: Trying out your xfce4-notifyd commit, d87a4a93b2ec4ab094f5a35ae818395f750f2891
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> lemme know whether there are terrible leaks!
<ochosi> :>
<Unit193> That's the idea.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-26
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> flocculant: correct, land it AA, SRU back to everything we care about
<bluesabre> ochosi: I had mentioned last cycle that it would be cool if we shipped with some xubuntu avatars
<Unit193> ..Ro..robots? :3  Xubuntu killer robots? :3
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r510 xfwm4-a11y: Fix broken symlink (Fixes #183)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> tracker is up - added core for better or worse
<Unit193> Now we just poke knome to poke on that!
<flocculant> poke
<ochosi> Unit193: any feedback on the notifyd thingy yet?
<ochosi> did it eat your ram already? :D
<Unit193> ochosi: I actually had a cron job that'd plot the memory usage, but I still haven't extensivly used it yet so not sure if it's quite useful.  That being said, having the default to stay running is the right move (though might be cool to have a hidden option, but meh.)  I'll have the latest results in 4 minutes.
<ochosi> yeah, i know it's the right behavior, killing the daemon is maybe hiding leaks, but resource usage is really irrelevant with notifyd
<Unit193> Or, it's killing it when it's not needed. Depending on how you look at it.  But, it does very well.
<Unit193> (Give me just a sec more, I was even going to poke you!)
 * ochosi gives a sec to Unit193 
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/608139/
<Unit193> For that last bump, finaly used it again (with a  for i in $(seq 1 30);do notify-send $i $i;done)
<ochosi> right
<Unit193> left
<Unit193> ..Though it seems I don't slam it hard, and flocculant is great at breaking things. :>
<ochosi> dunno, the mem usage doesn't look absurd
<Unit193> No, it looks pretty fine to me.
<ochosi> very comparable to what i have here
<Unit193> Except the usage percent I'm sure, and the username. :3
<Unit193> flocculant: Also in case you read scrollback, I'm kidding.  Just doing some upstream testing. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-27
<bluesabre> Unit193: new lightdm-gtk-greeter package in https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental, if you want to take a peek
<Unit193> Seems like a minor release.
<bluesabre> yeah, not a huge deal, but builds with current lightdm
<bluesabre> was following up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1669818 with a fixed package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1669818 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie shows debian wallpaper due to greeter recommendation / lightdm-gtk-greeter does not compile" [Undecided,In progress]
<Unit193> Right, not a bad thing that it's minor.
<bluesabre> I'll nudge fossfreedom with it as well so we can finally get it uploaded to artful
<flocculant> not sure I'm great at breaking things - but I have jolly good bash at it :p
<Unit193> You're better with thunar than I am at least.
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<akxwi-dave> and first install of the artful dodger installed fine..
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre:  getting a bug on Parole "GStreamer Backend error, could not initialise XV output" on AA..  tried the  'parole --xv false'.. which doesn't work... ubuntu-bug crashes when trying to report it with error    "Gth-message: GtkDialog mapped without a transient parent. This is discouraged..   
<akxwi-dave> I have not manually reported it yet..
<akxwi-dave> "Gtk-Message"  that is..
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: that flag has been removed from the cli interface. Instead, go to Preferences > Display > Video Output and switch to No Xv
<bluesabre> XV does not work in virtualbox, Clutter does not work, so X is all we have
<akxwi-dave> lol... bangs head on desk...  just changed it to that and works.. doh...  cheers
<bluesabre> and that ubuntu-bug message is because Gtk devs thought they should always print that output when a dialog does not have a parent... even though lots of dialogs don't have parents, users can't do anything about it, and developers don't care :D
<akxwi-dave> oh god..  just reported a bug and noticed that i missed off a letter on the title.. bet you cant guess what one..
<akxwi-dave> bug 1686667
<ubottu> bug 1686667 in sgt-launcher (Ubuntu) "licking on the Preferences option on the main menu does nothing on 17.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686667
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I never implemented that it seems
<akxwi-dave> :-) i bet you wouldn't expect someone to lick a menu
<bluesabre> I never know what to expect from you QA guys
<akxwi-dave> pmsl   true.. gotta test everything.. :-)
<akxwi-dave> now corrected.
<flocculant> mmm tasty menus ...
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<Spass> small website issue - link to FAQ provided on https://xubuntu.org/help/ goes here https://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq
<knome> h
<knome> hmm. hello.
<knome> Spass, what's the issue?
<Spass> knome: in Help & Support - "Also visit our Frequently Asked Questions blog category (...)"
<Spass> link to FAQ seems broken
<knome> right...
<knome> fixed.
<knome> i still don't understand why wordpress doesn't have automatic redirection from inexisting categories to the tag with the same name and the other way
<knome> flocculant, tweeted too; poke pleia2 for more social media coverage please :)
<knome> bbabl
<pleia2> shared on fb and g+
<knome> thanks pleia2 <3
<pleia2> thanks for the ping :) conferencing today so you know
<knome> mhm
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-28
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> pleia2: at some point talk about fb with you
<flocculant> and thanks 
<Unit193> Wasn't 1619835 fixed?
<knome> bug 1619835
<ubottu> bug 1619835 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon labels are offset" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619835
<knome> yes, i remember it being
<knome> but then i don't use desktop icons so i have no actual idea
<Unit193> I don't use Xenial.
<knome> me neither
<Unit193> bluesabre: Didn't you say you could get more on LP 1662254, LP 1613910, and LP 1612311  (Man what a useless bot..)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1662254 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:8:__libc_do_syscall:raise:__aeabi_ldiv0:xfdesktop_setup_grids:xfdesktop_icon_view_realize" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662254
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1613910 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:8:__libc_do_syscall:raise:__aeabi_ldiv0:xfdesktop_setup_grids:xfdesktop_move_all_icons_to_pending_icons_list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1613910
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612311 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:5:g_malloc_n:IA__gdk_cairo_set_source_pixbuf:xfdesktop_icon_view_draw_image:xfdesktop_icon_view_paint_icon:xfdesktop_icon_view_add_item_internal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612311
<Unit193> The title is the only useful info there so far.
<knome> ughh
<Unit193> 1521388 too! :P
<knome> LP 1521388 joins the party!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1521388 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_icon_get_extents:xfdesktop_icon_view_motion_notify:_gtk_marshal_BOOLEAN__BOXED:g_closure_invoke:signal_emit_unlocked_R" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521388
<Unit193> There's just so many, a lot of them old...One had a comment by brainwash that it was fixed though.
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh?
<Unit193> errors.ubuntu.com stuff.
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> Yeah, I can view them, but I probably can't do much with what I see
<bluesabre> If anybody could use the paste from there, I can provide it
<Unit193> As long as nothing is private, might be handy to add them to the bugs.  But eh, I dunno.  You're more likely to than me.  I already re-assigned a couple of bugs to nm-applet..
<bluesabre> I'll have to review them and determine
<bluesabre> Big stack traces
<Unit193> Eh, well since you won't use them, and I won't use them...
<Unit193> We'd have to get eric to actually look at lp. ;P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll review them and get the traces uploaded tonight
<Spass> where I could post my humble suggestions about default settings and default applications included in future Xubuntu release?
<Spass> to be specific - xfwm4 /general/placement_ratio set to 100 (now is 20) and inclusion of gnome-font-viewer
<Spass> launchpad with proper tags?
<knome> send a mail to the xubuntu-devel mailing list and see what the general response is
<knome> if it's positive, and developers back it we can look at implementing the changes
<Spass> knome: ok, thanks
<Spass> I didn't use mailing lists before (I was just reading them), so I hope I did it properly
<knome> looks fine
<knome> now just wait :P
<Spass> and I think I'll not propose that /placement_ratio change, because when I think about it now, it could be just "better for me" option, but not "better for most users" :) got to think about a bigger picture, right?
<knome> indeed
<Spass> ok, so when I send to mailing list I do not get that same message in my inbox, right?
<flocculant> Spass: depends on how you set it up - I think it defaults to sending 
<flocculant> Spass: re gnome font - your most important item (add a font) is not there on the new package ;)
<flocculant> it seems to now JUST be a viewer
<Spass> oh.. that's a bummer, why did they remove that option? :/
<flocculant> not a clue - asking someone will get an answer eventually ...
<flocculant> missing comma from after someone - you'll not be used to me and my patchy use of punctuation yet :p
<flocculant> Spass: your screenshot is from a definitely updated zesty?
<Spass> it's from 16.04 on VM
<Spass> but I have it on my zesty desktop too, works fine, with "Install" option available
<Spass> version 3.23.91
<flocculant> ok - well I've been asked to file bug - I'll look later
<Spass> so, the same that you mentioned in the mailing list... weird
<flocculant> Spass: please check on Xubuntu default iso's - I see it nowher
<Spass> 17.04 ISO or daily?
<flocculant> I've tried 16.04.latest/17.04 and 17.10
<flocculant> biab
<Spass> flocculant: maybe I was not specific enough, that window with 'Install' option is visible when I 'open' a font with TTF extension on my disk, downloaded from fonts.google.com for example
<Spass> if that's the case, I will explain it on the mailing list
<Spass> btw... what shortcut do you use when mentioning mailing lists? ML? :)
<Spass> yep, works fine on 17.04 live session too
<pleia2> flocculant: yeah sure, what about fb?
<flocculant> Spass: even font-viewer on Gnome sees what I see - maybe your vm is old
<flocculant> been talking to a Gnome chap
<Spass> flocculant: but what about font viewer on my 17.04? it works well too. same version as you mentioned. strange.
<flocculant> it installs ?
<Spass> yes
<flocculant> what version is it? 
<Spass> 3.23.91-0ubuntu1
<flocculant> well I have no idea at all what's the crack there. Font viewer in Gnome and Xubuntu doesn't install - and a screenshot of the gnome one to Jeremy got this response "< jbicha> flocculant: that is what it looks like in 16.04 LTS"
<flocculant> Spass: in 17.04 then run dpkg -l *font* |grep ii |pastebinit
<flocculant> and I'll compare to here
<Spass> I've just check again, everything is OK on my 17.04, and the same on 16.04 VM, it installs the font (TTF file) to ~/.local/share/fonts/
<Spass> and the font works in Writer for example, no problem with it
<Spass> so 'Install' just copies it to that folder, I guess, but it works fine
<Spass> flocculant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24474165/
<flocculant> ok - I'll look later there
<Spass> to standardize it a little, download Baloo font from https://fonts.google.com/
<Spass> and sorry for that, I know that's not a Xubuntu problem at all, it just came from my suggestion on the ML, I wanted good :)
<flocculant> Spass akxwi-dave - bug 1687075
<ubottu> bug 1687075 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Restoring non-empty folders spawns warning - leaves copy behind" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687075
<Spass> flocculant: should I chime in with "I can confirm" message there? I don't know LP bug etiquette yet
<flocculant> Spass: you don't need to write anything, just https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1687075/+affectsmetoo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1687075 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Restoring non-empty folders spawns warning - leaves copy behind" [Undecided,New]
<Spass> flocculant: thanks and done
<akxwi-dave> me too'd
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - could we get some social media thing going on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2017-April/011488.html
<flocculant> I did fb
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ - also removed some date options as I'm not omnipotent and can't go back in time
<akxwi-dave> thought you were a time lord..
<flocculant> that's Unit193 ...
<akxwi-dave> lol
<Unit193> :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: jfyi - likely I will delete you from doodle poll (after checking which dates/times) to see if it make a difference on participation from new people
<flocculant> awesome to see things being sorted on thunar :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-29
<bluesabre> flocculant: I definitely have the install button on gnome-font-viewer
<bluesabre> It might require that you view a font that you have not already installed
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/C5LCdMJ.png
<Unit193> You're alive. :3
<flocculant> bluesabre: aaah
<PaulW2U_> hi all, further to my comment on ISO tracker re tap/double tap not working on laptop touchpad
<PaulW2U_> it seems I need to install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics which is no longer installed by default
<PaulW2U_> bug 1686081 seems to be relevant
<ubottu> bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686081
<Spass> just noticed that Thunar in 17.04 has different selection color than system's default, why is that?
<Spass> (area when dragging mouse to select multiple files/folders)
<Spass> in Thunar it's dark grey, but it should be blue (depending on a theme I guess)
<Spass> I'm using version from xubuntu-staging, but 17.04 iso on vm have the same "issue"
<ochosi> Spass: yes, that was always the case though
<Unit193> That thunar only has a crash fixing patch, or something.
<Spass> ochosi: you're right, I don't now why it felt strange today when I saw it, but it's the same on 16.04, sorry
<Unit193> bluesabre: What state is xfce4-session 4.13?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't messed with it at all
<Unit193> Thought you might know from upstream, OK.  Basically, switch-user sounds really cool (as far as whiskermenu, and sync'ing from Debian.) but GTK3 and gdbus port would make me a little cautious.
<Unit193> We got a todo list?
<bluesabre> not yet
<Unit193> Merged xfdesktop for the dbgsym and dbus stuff.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/wSzgmhaxrsgKvIH2HJid/ ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I approve
<Unit193> OK, hoped we weren't duplicating.
<bluesabre> nope, still banging my head on geany-plugins
<Unit193> Oh cool, works for me.  Do I need to look at something?
<bluesabre> There's clearly a reason there is not currently a gtk3 ppa anywhere... :\
<bluesabre> getting this during the configure step in the package
<bluesabre> error: po/Makefile.in.in was not created by intltoolize
<bluesabre> but it only happens with gtk3, and only when building as a package
<bluesabre> tempted to just checkinstall it for my needs, but trying to behave and do things right :D
<Unit193> Ouch, checkinstall...
<Unit193> Got a dsc?
<bluesabre> https://cloud.smdavis.us/index.php/s/pvLWCPmh7QlMHQf
<Unit193> ...How do I dget that?
<bluesabre> seems like you dontget that
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> one sec
<knome> :P
<Unit193> I did a dget, it got the right files but as HTML. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://smdavis.us/public/geany-plugins_1.30.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, good idea of creating avatars for xubuntu to ship by default
<ochosi> would be nice to compose it of animal heads of previous releases
<bluesabre> sounds fun
<bluesabre> do we want to add that to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-a-artwork ?
<ochosi> done
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> Unit193: this whole mess started with me editing a vala file, wanting to use the latest geany, and remembering it had gtk3 support :D
<bluesabre> "I'll just package that right up"
<bluesabre> >.<
<ochosi> bluesabre: what size would these avatars be ideally?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do I have to wait until it finishes building or no?
<bluesabre> ochosi: the ones from gnome are 96px, I believe we scale up/down to 100px (maybe 200px in 2x scale)... not sure if we'd go larger
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbabl
<ochosi> right, then i can target 96px
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can I give it back to you if the whole thing compiles fine, it's just the install fails with missing stuff.  (Minor things.)
<bluesabre> Unit193: the package actually just built?
<bluesabre> or did you fix the failing part?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well I mean technically it doesn't build the package, since not all the plugins are there.  But the application builds if that counts.
<bluesabre> sounds like an improvement to me
<bluesabre> mine wouldn't even configure
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/608423/
<bluesabre> Unit 193 is the best unit
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> only if you don't count unit 194
<knome> (hello)
 * bluesabre waves at knome
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't have anything right now, unless you want to poke https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/gtk-theme-config/fixes
<bluesabre> ... to see if things work for you
<Unit193> I might have to do that, but right now I don't have valac.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-30
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks to you, finally got this working: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/geany-gtk3
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1686081 - have you seen this? 
<ubottu> bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686081
<flocculant> thanks PaulW2U_ 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think we have libinput support in xfce4-settings, but I've never tested it... would probably be a good time to check
<flocculant> bluesabre: have nothing that would use that locally - will need another guinea pig for that :)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> looks like Paul had to install -synpatics
<flocculant> of course he spelt it right ;)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> while xfce4-settings has support for it, I don't think we enable it in the build :D
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: going to merge this in and release today, https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/gtk-theme-config/fixes
<flocculant> ok - well I guess it's time then :D
<bluesabre> tested in xfce, unity, gnome
<bluesabre> flocculant: want to take a peek at that?
<flocculant> bluesabre: been away since yesterday, just got back - I will but likely be after you released it :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: no problemo
<ochosi> bluesabre: sry that i didn't get to that yet :/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-23
<GridCube> i don't seem to be able to edit the software sources anymore
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> it's not in the setting menu and greyed out from the software-center
<Unit193> pkexec software-properties  ?
<GridCube> pkexec software-properties
<GridCube> Cannot run program software-properties: No such file or directory
<GridCube> im doing an apt update && apt upgrade
<GridCube> maybe i should install xubuntu-desktop again just in case 
<Unit193> apt install -s xubuntu-core^
<GridCube> kk
<GridCube> can't do, says https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/N9Wmgf9rgr/
<GridCube> i guess that explains why im having graphical card problems i guess
<Unit193> Yey, ppas! \o/
<Spass_> hello, I'm installing Bionic Daily on my laptop now, ISO downloaded from the tracker, I have small question, is incomplete translation considered a bug or issue?
<krytarik> Unless it's not translatable or the translation isn't applied, no.
<Spass_> some elements in the installer are displayed in English, but most of them are in my language (Polish)
<krytarik> These?: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/ubiquity/+pots/ubiquity-debconf/pl/+translate?show=untranslated
<krytarik> And then there is also this: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/pl/+translate?show=untranslated
<Spass_> yeah, mostly those, I'll try to suggest my translations on LP
<flocculant> knome: \o/
<Spass_> but also this WiFi password window is in English https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VExLra9w1A7gT1bxD8tePvtJD_Ds9_ZS/view
<Spass_> and after installation has finished, I clicked restart and this shows up, instead of a "prompt to remove media and press Enter" https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NJUe1GpxlZ3aCHJ8IjoXOAZAmmaGDQp2/view
<flocculant> seen that referenced somewhere
<Spass_> sorry if this information doesn't belong on this channel, I'll submit my results on tracker also
<flocculant> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2380700
<Spass_> thanks, I'll check that
<Spass_> I found this also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1719191
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1719191 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black screen with messages after new install 17.10" [Undecided,New]
<Spass_> but latest comments says "Problem disappeared installing Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" - Alpha amd64"
<flocculant> Spass_: that's what they saw - doesn't mean it's fixed
<flocculant> does the machine actually reboot?
<Spass_> nope, it sits on this screen, cursor is blinking
<Spass_> I'll reference this bug in the tracker comment
<flocculant> Spass_: you need to fail the test critically
<flocculant> can you replicate it? 
<Spass_> I can install the system again and check, yeah
<Spass_> but someone on forums mentioned that changing to "Security -> Secure Boot -> Secure Boot Mode -> [Standard]" setting in BIOS helped, so I'm thinking about it
<flocculant> Spass_: if you have time can you check without mucking about - then again after mucking about, just want to be sure it wasn't a transient issue
<Spass_> ok, I'll reinstall without changing anything in my BIOS
<flocculant> thanks :)
<Spass_> I want to install fresh 18.04 after the official release so I don't mind testing, well that was my main purpose - testing, but I know I'm kinda late with that
<krytarik> Spass_: Found LP bug 1426920 - and the Polish translation is here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/network-manager-applet/+pots/nm-applet/pl/+translate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426920 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Wi-Fi Network Authentication menu not translated during install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1426920
<flocculant> krytarik: would I be right in saying that 'some applications aren't completely translated' ?
<flocculant> like the things Spass_ saw
<flocculant> if so I'll just comment on the release note
<FurretUber> When testing this case: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/389/builds/170812/testcases/1300/results The disk should be completely empty or it can have other partitions or a older system?
<Spass_> wow, this bug is from 2015
<flocculant> FurretUber: up to you - but if you follow it - anything else on there will be overwritten - so be sure ;)
<flocculant> if I did that it would certainly be an 'omg what have I done' moment
<FurretUber> I tried in a UEFI VM that had a Ubuntu Server install, and it produced a strange partition layout: https://i.imgur.com/QBS7vFc.png
<Spass_> krytarik, should I mark as "affect me also" that very old bug report?
<Spass_> I just don't want to make more mess than I need to ;)
<flocculant> Spass_: mark it affects me, comment that you're using 18.04, add bionic tag
<flocculant> unlikely to be fixed soon though
<flocculant> I've no idea if translations get sru'd either
<Spass_> flocculant, second try, still the same MODSIGN error at the end, will try to change something in my BIOS and try again
<flocculant> Spass_: ok cheers - fail it on the tracker
<FurretUber> The slideshow is mostly untranslated, how should this be reported?
<flocculant> ubuntu-bug ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu
<krytarik> No, the right path is to *translate* it.
<flocculant> well yea - but before this late :p
<krytarik> Yup!
<krytarik> FurretUber: I'm guessing this?: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/pt_BR/+translate?show=untranslated
<FurretUber> I hope somebody else review them
<flocculant> krytarik: would translations get in for the first real release of 18.04 when it goes to .1 ?
 * flocculant generally ignores translations
<flocculant> FurretUber: I think krytarik's point generally here is that if you want it translated - translate it ;)
<Spass_> ok, I don't see any "Secure Boot Mode" setting in my BIOS, so I have to leave it like that
<flocculant> mmm - that's pants then
<Spass_> I'll just proceed to "post-install" tests
<flocculant> thanks
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r679 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<Spass_> ok, I think I found something, when I plug in my USB drive with some files on it, it mounts and Thunar window opens, then if I click on "eject" icon in Thunar's left panel, it unmounts my USB properly but moves me to /media/mariusz/ folder
<Spass_> on my main 17.10 system it moves me to /home/mariusz/ which is correct behaviour in my opinion
<flocculant> Spass_: on the report you made on tracker - it reads as though you could reboot into the install
<Spass_> yes, my installation works, I restarted (Ctrl+Alt+Del couple times) on that error screen and system/installation works fine, it booted normally
<flocculant> oh right - misunderstanding between us earlier then
<Spass_> my English = bad English so it happens often :)
<Spass_> hmm, my laptop did not come back from the suspend :/ I see black screen (backlighted)
<Spass_> no desktop, no login screen, no reaction to mouse/keyboard
<Spass_> ok, I needed to close and open the lid, I see login screen now
<Spass_> but it's definitely a bug of some sort, I can reproduce it
<flocculant> I think ali1234 reported that
<flocculant> got to go now - work soon
<Spass_> I've managed to crash Menu Libre pretty easily
<tracker1> hi
<Unit193> Hello, tracker1.
<tracker1> I want to invoke xubuntu development, May I ask what's skill should I have?
<Unit193> Depends, some of the Xubuntu applications are python, but...Gah.
<Spass_> skill #1 - patience :D
<bluesabre> ali1234: are the patches on the same MR?
<knome> ochosi, inspired by this cdimage page hacking, i landed some updated table styles for dev.xubuntu.org (essentially the same table style!)
<knome> ochosi, will land this stuff later to the main theme along with other things in the dev. css to make the delta smaller (and to prepare a move to a wp-ran site)
<ali1234> bluesabre: yes
<krytarik> flocculant: "would translations get in for the first real release of 18.04 when it goes to .1 ?" - oh, to answer with your own words: "I've no idea if translations get sru'd either" - on their own, it seems rather unlikely indeed.
<krytarik> That is, because usually people don't care enough for it to go through all the SRU hassle - otherwise I see no problem with it passing.
<willem> evening all. I wanted to try to do an OEM-test of the Final as I had not done that testcase before. I got as far as step 4, and then got this screen: https://imgur.com/kS2Zvbc. Testing in VirtualBox. I could try and restart the test, but first wanted your advice: should I report this as a bug?  
<flocculant> I'd not bother tbh - chance of some random vbox being fixed is slim
<flocculant> s/vbox issue
<flocculant> willem: and it works ok here
<willem> flocculant, right, thought as much. Thanks.
<willem> flocculant, it's not quite random, though, tried 4times now. Still same result. So, I'll skip the OEM-testcase but won't report a fail.
<willem> hmmm... wanted to do the live-test now - same problem occurs. Perhaps something wrong with my ISO...
<flocculant> assuming it's the same iso as everyone else - I'd assume it was vbox
<flocculant> willem: I can at least confirm vbox appears to be broken there
<flocculant> mmm - odd
<flocculant> willem: do you see the same thing if you just let the iso boot
<FurretUber> Impressive, I sent 8 translation and one has a typo :(
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-24
<flocculant> willem: new iso - works in vbox
<Spass> should I try it also? considering that my previous test had some issues
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/896724
<ubottu> Debian bug 896724 in src:catfish "catfish: missing build dependency on dh-python" [Serious,Open]
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/896731 - https://bugs.debian.org/896732
<ubottu> Debian bug 896731 in src:lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings "lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings: missing build dependency on dh-python" [Serious,Open]
<ubottu> Debian bug 896732 in src:menulibre "menulibre: missing build dependency on dh-python" [Serious,Open]
<tacocat> I'll finish up the upload for #896731 in the morning ^^
<Unit193> This is pretty much the 11th hour, so chances are pretty slim.
<tacocat> it's around 3am, I'm going to sleep instead of embarrass myself with mistakes or poorly worded emails
<tacocat> if someone wants to push it before I get to it, the src is in git :P
<Unit193> Hah yeah, understandable.\
<bluesabre> catfish fix is in git
<bluesabre> odds of that getting uploaded today... slim :)
<Unit193> Yeep..
<bluesabre> managing packaging in version control is nice
<bluesabre> menulibre fix is in git
<bluesabre> might be fun to play with next cycle, https://ci.debian.net/doc/
<slickymasterWork> yep, flocculant will find it amusing bluesabre 
<akxwi-dave> willem:  I had that on my Windows VBox, updated to latest version of VBox and it works fine..
<Wimpress> bluesabre: I see Xubuntu has a really nice Notifcations Indicator. What package provides that?
<willem> flocculant, akxwi-dave thanks, will try new iso
<willem> now using freshly downloaded iso in Vbox. OEM setup still giving the same trouble. live-version, however, works as it should.
<flocculant> Wimpress: you perhaps mean xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin -which is new to us this cycle
<willem> I'll give up trying to test OEM-setup.
<flocculant> willem: :)
<flocculant> willem: yesterday I was seeing the same issue with any boot if I chose Install Xubuntu at the very first menu
<flocculant> vbox often gives less than satisfactory performance for me - why I stopped using it and went to the kernel stuff (kvm)
<willem> flocculant, so it wasn't me then, this time... ;-)
<flocculant> nah 
<flocculant> the oem install works ok 
<willem> I'll look into kvm.
<flocculant> willem: it's pretty easy - couple of things I learnt to make it better for 'me'
<flocculant> I can give some help - after Thursday though
<willem> thanks - will try to manage; won't bother you until after Thursday. 
<flocculant> well it's not actually a bother - you just might get half an answer :p
<flocculant> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Installation - note the optional installation of virt-manager - which is the gui
<flocculant> but you can do stuff from the terminal as well
<willem> flocculant, Used the wiki you pointed me to. Got KVM up and running now. Should like to report that "sudo adduser `id -un` libvirtd" doesn't work (on 18.04?), and that the adduser is not necessary...
<willem> but can't find where to report this
<flocculant> I'll check it out later - not easy to find someone nowadays who can edit ubuntu wiki's - but I can
<willem> perhaps this may help: https://github.com/chouseknecht/minishift-up-role/issues/2
<willem> need to dash
<willem> bye
<flocculant> I meant it's likely just the wiki being out of date - sometime 2 years ago last edit
<ali1234> flocculant: does the beta respin contain the panel-switch fixes? version 1.0.7-0ubuntu2
<ali1234> probably not yet as your mail was 13 hours ago and that package was built 7 hours ago
<flocculant> ali1234: definitely not xfpanel-switch all 1.0.7-0ubuntu1
<flocculant> possibly a new respin coming
<flocculant> so if that does happen - and I think it will, I'd assume it'll get the new one
<flocculant> it will happen overnight (UK time)
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> Wimpress: that's xfce4-notifyd's xfce-panel plugin
<Wimpress> flocculant: bluesabre Thanks
<Unit193> Wimpress: Have you taken a look at ayatana-indicator-notifications?  It's pretty shiny.
<Wimpress> Unit193: I have.
<Wimpress> I much prefer the Xubuntu 18.04 implementation.
<bluesabre> <3
<Spass> is there a way in bionic to make panel icons 22px size when the panel is big? https://i.imgur.com/xoLC7Ks.png
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-25
<Spass> or that's just the way those panel plugins are designed and the icons will always scale up to the panel size?
<Spass> ok never mind, I got an answer on Xfce forums that I need to add CSS rules for every plugin in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css
<bluesabre> ochosi: think that's something we might be able to do from the panel itself? ^
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1766746
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766746 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "Cannot save customized configurations - can only copy defaults" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> this bug describes the third issue i was talking about the other day - the one i said i didn't fix
<ali1234> but reporter says it works with the latest release so i am puzzled by that
<ali1234> bluesabre: did you pull any other changes in the last release?
<bluesabre> ali1234: nope, just that one MR
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, see the comment i just wrote on that bug... i can really see no way how my patched fixed it, and i think the reporter is wrong about it being fixed
<ali1234> the real problem is it seems to be a bug in the gui code which i didn't write and don't understand :(
<ali1234> and i dont think i will have time to figure it out before release
<ali1234> furretuber saw the same problem while testing my patch
<ali1234> more evidence it isnt fixed. and also it's why i made it check for orphans when loading the config
<ali1234> not just saving
<bluesabre> I'm not sure it's a bug. The save button is a toolbar attached to the treeview... so clicking save should save what the current selected item is... I would think
<ali1234> perhaps then it is a UI design issue :)
<ali1234> i must say i was not able to reproduce it myself, but i did not try very hard
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> It's contextual. If you click save on current configuration, you should save current configuration
<bluesabre> save on gnome, save gnome, etc
<ali1234> furretuber was loading an old bad configuration to check my patch (which correctly identified the orphans)
<ali1234> but then on saving the configuration, the orphans always came back because it was copying his old config
<ali1234> but it could definitely be as you say, if he left the old config selected
<bluesabre> I could make it more verbose, but tooltips with paragraphs inside are bad tooltips :)
<ali1234> maybe we need a "save active config" button and a separate "make copy" button, with the latter doing what the save button does currently
<ali1234> idk, but i think it's too late to fix now
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> not arriving for bionic :)
<Spass> just noticed on new bionic ISO in VM, Network Manager Applet is sometimes duplicated on the panel, so I have two icons now, one from Notification Are and one from Status Notifier Items, but I guess this is a well known bug
<ali1234> tbh, why would you even save an existing configuration? you need to export it if you want the actual file, and there doesn't seem to be any way to save over an existing config
<bluesabre> I use it to save current and then load something else
<bluesabre> I like my panel config, but I gotta make screenshots for releases :)
<ali1234> yes, i think that's why most people would use it, but i don't see how saving anything other than the real current xfconf is useful?
<bluesabre> Exporting is handy, but only needed if you're sharing or reinstalling
<bluesabre> dunno
<bluesabre> if 5 buttons in the toolbar act on the treeview and one doesn't, I'd say that one isn't working correctly
<bluesabre> if saving current needs to be a separate action, needs to be separate
<ali1234> it does act on the tree view though - it creates a new entry on it
<ali1234> i dunno, UI is not my thing. i usually use the command line interface anyway :)
<bluesabre> rephrased... if the other five act on the currently selected item, the other should too
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> It's a bad UI
<ali1234> i don't think it would be particularly unusual for what is effectively a "new" button to be grouped with the others
<bluesabre> But it's a config app for an app that already has a config app :)
<bluesabre> Really, ochosi needs to add it to the panel :)
<bluesabre> But yeah, we can revisit in b+1
<bluesabre> tired from the busy cycle... ready to release and relax
<ali1234> agreed
<ali1234> the core xfconf code could use some love too
<ali1234> can't remember if this started out as python3 but it doesn't use a lot of nice py3 features where it could
<Unit193> Liley started out supporting both.
<ali1234> nah it definitely didn't support both
<ali1234> unless it was by accident
<ali1234> ah... i did write it with python3... just didn't know what i was doing then :)
<Unit193> Hah, nice.
<bluesabre> :)
<Volkodav> has anybody noticed that panel-xkb is a cpu hog? Has been eating up to 40% of CPU since early alpha 18.04?
<flocculant> Volkodav: I assume that you have a bug number from back then>
<flocculant> ?
<willem> leigh
 * willem facepalms
<willem> sorry about that. Was trying to find out if leigh was online.
<krytarik> LOL :D
 * willem silently moves away - runs out of the channel
<krytarik> Oh nooo!
<willem> :-)
<flocculant> another respin looking likely
<akxwi-dave> what they respining this time?
<flocculant> not really sure tbh - not anting xubuntuish for sure
<akxwi-dave> aslong as they don't break anything xubuntuish.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ubiquity and misc ...
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^
<akxwi-dave> ahhh
<akxwi-dave> Now I deffo hope they don't break anythiny xubuntish.....  :-)
<ochosi> bluesabre_: adding xfpanelswitch to the panel is a bit hard without porting to C (which probably wouldn't be much fun)
<ochosi> bluesabre_: and regarding the css, would be interesting to see what ppl add there and whether it's the gtk3 panel or the gtk2 panel
<ali1234> i've started putting all my customizations in git: https://github.com/ali1234/dotfiles
<ochosi> ah right, you're still using Orion?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> only xfwm window decorations though
<ochosi> oh ok
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-26
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> bluesabre: did some 32 bit smoketests so we've at least got current reports against all mandatories - marked us ready
<Volkodav> Hi! I've noticed xkb-plugin is a CPU hog. Eats up 35-40% of CPU. Should I file a bug?
<Unit193> In which version?
<Volkodav> 19,04
<Volkodav> 18,04*
<Volkodav> they advised talking to you guys in #ubuntu+1
<Volkodav> never been like that - have been using xfce for 0ver 10 yers now
<Unit193> Hmm, don't already see anything https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?component=General&product=Xfce4-xkb-plugin&resolution=--- either.
<Volkodav> I didn't file it yet - should I?
<Unit193> That is, I don't see it already filed by someone else.
<Unit193> You indeed could, I'd try ruling out config first though.
<Volkodav> config is pretty straighforward in my case - Russian English with left Super as a switcher - that's all
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<ochosi> hi everyone - i guess we aren't released yet..? :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I'm assuminh not
<PaulW2U_> flocculant: I think a respin is on the cards :(
<flocculant> PaulW2U_: well that's just dandy ...
<PaulW2U_> Haven't got the energy for any more testing ....
<flocculant> PaulW2U_: I suspect I'll just smoketest
<flocculant> and I really didn't expect anyone to do more today - hence marking us ready at 6am ish
<flocculant> s/expect/need/want
<PaulW2U_> I was surprised when I woke up to find all for Xubuntu was done
<flocculant> well - I know what the change to iso was - pretty much a caja lib and ubiquity - so did what hadn't been looked at then marked it
<flocculant> I obviously have been watching what's gone on for us on the tracker all week
<flocculant> Wimpress: you know why? rather than in the other channel - expect they're busy enough as it is ;)
<Wimpress> There was a regression in Ubiquity.
 * flocculant guesses ubiquity/wifi
<flocculant> hah \o/
<Wimpress> All flavours using dconf/gsettings were quite broken.
<flocculant> looked ok to me this morning *shrug*
<flocculant> oh right 
<Wimpress> dconf/user was owned by root and that resulted in quite the fall out.
<flocculant> oh miy - nice
<Wimpress> I think Xubuntu and Lubuntu were not affected.
<Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntukylin/+bug/1767067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767067 in Ubuntu Kylin "Booting to live session fails with: at-spi-bus-launcher: unable to create file '/run/user/999/dconf/user': Permission denied." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> well I did half a doen runs this morning before marking us ready :D
<flocculant> oh - were they not all talking about that before the previous respin? pretty sure that was the why 
<Wimpress> The a11y fixes were what trigger the issue, but it was an unexpected side affected.
<flocculant> right
<Wimpress> Appearently reading keys cause the schema to get created.
<Wimpress> And that ally fix did that in the root context.
<flocculant> I'll *have* to do a sanity check now - just in case the fix for 'others' breaks us :(
<akxwi-dave> both of the iso's were fine for me this morning as well.
<flocculant> yea = shouldn't affect us
<akxwi-dave> fingers still crossed..
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> well looks like we aren't getting a respin
<TDO|Aquina> where/how can you see that? 
<flocculant> yea we are - it's rebuilding
<akxwi-dave> ahh not popped up on the list yet then..
<flocculant> nope - it's rebuilding on tracker
<flocculant> mails don't go out till it's built
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base amd64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base armhf [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base ppc64el [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base arm64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base s390x [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:15 PM <queuebot> Builds: Ubuntu Base i386 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:18 PM <queuebot> Builds: Kubuntu Desktop i386 [Bionic Final] has been marked as ready
<akxwi-dave> 6:18 PM <queuebot> Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Bionic Final] has been marked as ready
<akxwi-dave> 6:21 PM <queuebot> Builds: Kubuntu Desktop i386 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180425.1)
<akxwi-dave> 6:21 PM <queuebot> Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180425.1)
<akxwi-dave> 6:22 PM <queuebot> Builds: Lubuntu Alternate i386 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> 6:22 PM <queuebot> Builds: Lubuntu Alternate amd64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426)
<akxwi-dave> kkk.. will be ready with machines for testing when ready..
<flocculant> umm
<flocculant> ok ...
<flocculant> biab - eating
<amerigena> Trying to find a download link for an Xubuntu Core 16.04 ISO
<amerigena> Anyone know of one that's live?
<flocculant> smoke testing now
<akxwi-dave> getting slow download here.. 10 mins to go then testing
<flocculant> yea - was slow here - also need to test screen reader
<FurretUber> 10 minutes? 3 hours remaining here...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi knome - seems that screen reader doesn't work for us
<flocculant> no idea if it ever did
<FurretUber> Ubuntu will be released and the download won't be finished yet
<flocculant> perhaps
<flocculant> re screenreader - or if it does, I've no idea how to trigger it for us
<TDO|Aquina> downloads in europe were a bit slower as well. an iso approx 45 minutes from different locations.
<flocculant> 64 bit done
<albinard> There was a Core ISO this morning - RC or Final?
<flocculant> albinard: that doesn't really work for Core - there might be an updated one - might not
<flocculant> it's not actually Official, it's more 'Official from us'
<albinard> Okay, thanks - I'll test it anyway and report
<Spass> I've tested newest (from minutes ago) amd64 in VirtualBox, other than incomplete translation during the install all seems fine, but I can't test it on my laptop atm, should I submit my test or it's not really needed at this point?
<flocculant> FurretUber akxwi-dave - and the reason for slow will likely be people grabbing an out of date iso - not knowing that it doesn't actually work properly for some flavours - and includes Ubuntu I think
<flocculant> Spass: report it - thanks
<flocculant> albinard: yup - thanks :)
<Spass> I'll skip translations issues for his one, will mark all ok, but I'll try to help fix those translations in 18.10
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> all we need to do right now is make sure that the installer does that 
<flocculant> 323 bit done
<flocculant> bit before it's time though :p
<akxwi-dave> lol
<Spass> (well... I still managed to crash Menu Libre easily :P I will help to investigate the issue later, it seems easy to reproduce)
<akxwi-dave>   lol install to lappy with SSD has finished before install on vbox on desktop.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<Spass> this screen shows Menu Libre crash and other issue - inconsistent panel icon size on bigger panel - https://i.imgur.com/rmPxBVi.jpg
<TDO|Aquina> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseAnnouncement
<TDO|Aquina> Is it released?
<TDO|Aquina> really?
<akxwi-dave> 123456789
<akxwi-dave> lol helps of i click on VBox before trying to decrypt the drive
<akxwi-dave> milamber
<akxwi-dave> both 32 and 64 working ok on vbox and 64 tested on a thinkpad...
<albinard> Newest Xubuntu Core ISO has EFI form of vmlinuz
<albinard> No other info, since it won't boot on my BIOS machine
<flocculant> albinard: thanks for checking - I'm sure Unit193 will look :)
<amerigena> Is that Xubuntu Core ISO available for download?
<knome> flocculant, me neither; we definitely need an "a11y" cycle..
<flocculant> knome: ack - perhaps we need to think about that soon ;)
<akxwi-dave> amerigena: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/384/builds/167441/testcases
<flocculant> doesn't have a download link there
<knome> flocculant, we needed to think about that soon for at least 6 years now...
<flocculant> knome: :)
<flocculant> sadly I've never thought about it
<knome> i've thought about it but i have no useful insight to the issues in hand
<knome> eg. i don't know if making x-y-z toolset work is actually useful
<knome> x-y-z being something i don't even know what it is yet...
<knome> for a practical example, i don't know how useful it would be if screen reading was working because other things might not
<knome> so it might be just as useless as it is now
<albinard> amerigena: link to ISO is https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/
<amerigena> albinard : thank you!
<knome> flocculant, how close are we to the release?
<flocculant> flavours still testing
<flocculant> I've joined in there
<knome> right
<knome> i need to start writing the release announcement...
<flocculant> knome: you've certainly got time to whack together an announcement
<flocculant> ha ha ack :p
<knome> yeah, i wish i had "figured" this out earlier...
<knome> i'm really off the loop :(
<flocculant> I almost started - then realised respin
<akxwi-dave> right only install i havent checked is the auto resize..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: that's cool - we only needed to make sure we didn't blow up after they reverted smething
<akxwi-dave> true  but at least i feel happier.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well yea - so do I :)
<knome> flocculant, which issues would you mention in the announcement?
<flocculant> umm
<flocculant> uefi one - I think there's something on the main release note - checking
<knome> #1724482 ?
<knome> err
<knome> bug 1724482
<ubottu> bug 1724482 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Force UEFI installation" dialog has non-working Go Back/Continue buttons" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724482
<knome> this one?
<flocculant> yea - wasn't sure if there was another 
<flocculant> the language one I'm not sure about
<flocculant> nvidia can be troublesome
<flocculant> other things are all a bit nitpicky
<knome> so to make sure we're talking about the same things:
<knome> language: bug 1706859
<ubottu> bug 1706859 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Auto-selected keyboard layout no longer matches chosen region on "Where are you" page" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706859
<knome> nvidia: bug 1761593
<ubottu> bug 1761593 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-340 (Ubuntu) "Uninstall left nouveau blacklisted" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761593
<flocculant> yea - but also I think there are some other nvidia problems
<knome> right...
<flocculant> I'd maybe make it a bit less specific
<knome> "there are issues with nvidia." ?
<flocculant> because ^^ bug # is a specific issue 
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> plus - check the main notes
<knome> yep
<flocculant> s/ubuntu notes that is
<knome> Unit193, around?
<knome> the ubuntu release notes do not exactly mention nvidia much
<knome> only this isue:
<knome> Systems may fail to boot when connected over DisplayPort to an external screen, on NVidia graphics hardware such as the GTX970 chipset. (1723619) 
<knome> issue too
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> maybe - 'if you have newish nvidia card - check for bugs on launchpad'
<knome> lol
<knome> that's a bit vague
<knome> you could say that about anything
<flocculant> well yea - if I had a bunch of nvidia cards and machines for them I could be more specific
<knome> i didn't mean that ;)
<flocculant> as it is - I see lots of nvidia issues being bandied about
<knome> i meant you could say "check LP bugs if you have $manufacturer hardware"
<flocculant> I can't really be more specific than telling people to check the bug reports against their driver
<knome> yes, but same for non-nvidia too
<flocculant> I wish I could
<flocculant> well yea - we could 'Check launchpad for bugs'
<flocculant> but
<knome> what i'm saying is this isn't probably a case where we even need people to tell to use common sense
<flocculant> a bug in parole is unlikely to leave you without a desktop showing
<knome> yes
<knome> but are there many bugs that do that?
<flocculant> just write whatever you feel best
<flocculant> I mean the release note 'could' be 6 miles long :p
<knome> i think i'll make a generic note about making sure your hardware isn't said to blow up your head when booted
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I KNOW that addition drivers used to remove conf files - but doesn't now
<flocculant> for 1 card
<flocculant> it might do it for more - I don't know 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> hence me at least listing the one I AM sure of
<flocculant> if nothing else - if I saw that I would at least check that it wasn't a similar issue
 * knome uploads "new" documentation
<knome> ugh, if only there was a way to upload faster than this
 * flocculant is glad you're here - I couldn't remember how to set the torrents :D
<knome> it's done ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: you leaving 16.04.4 on the page still I hope?
<knome> on what page?
<flocculant> donwload
<knome> well, i don't know
<knome> i can
 * knome shrugs
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> 18.04 is downloadable - but not upgradable automatically till 18.04.1
<knome> i acknowledge
<flocculant> personally I would prefer we kept it till 18.04.1 is there
<knome> https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/
<knome> hey i didn't break everything!
<knome> (but the docs do say â2017)
 * flocculant thinks in addition to thinking about screen reader etc - we should think about how crud oem looks too :p
<knome> yes, oem is another thing there has been discussions on but meh:
<knome> :)
<flocculant> yea hard one
<flocculant> would take pushing to make it worth effort I guess
<knome> yes
<knome> also who would be the target for a nice OEM?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> some of the orgs we cover in "xubuntu at.."?
<flocculant> maybe
<flocculant> might at least be worth an e-mail?
<flocculant> or do they read the blog?
<knome> no idea
<knome> i don't think the main release notes are very useful for us tbh
<flocculant> not so much this time
<knome> ok, so skipping linking to it then
<flocculant> generally they are - and they give more detail on kernel etc
<knome> preview: https://xubuntu.org/?p=4464&preview=true
<flocculant> knome: yea I link it in our release note
<flocculant> looking
<knome> i just saved a new draft, please refresh
<flocculant> in the first few days 
<flocculant> for the first few 
<knome> fixed
<knome> (that was copied from 17.10 announcement too...)
<flocculant> :D
<knome> hmm
<knome> refresh for fun
<flocculant> yep - that looks ok
<knome> and see the torrent dl links
<knome> should we do that?
<flocculant> I see no reason why not
<knome> i mean, bump that above the blah-de-blah and mention the direct downloads below that
<knome> this is one of the reasons i did this central handling of release/download links..
<flocculant> yea move the torrent section above the direct download section
<knome> refresh
<knome> maybe change that <em> to a box
<knome> hmm, i can't
<knome> i mean automatically.
<flocculant> that looks ok 
<knome> what about now?
<flocculant> that looks ok as well 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> i think it's easier to read now
<knome> time to do something else for a while to get fresh eyes
<flocculant> yea - I'm just waiting for the dust to settle in -release then I need to sleep
<knome> ack
<knome> sleep tight if you head out before i'm back
<flocculant> yep - cya later if not tonight
<knome> yup
<knome> should be around tomorrow as well..
<flocculant> I'll shortly be getting my head around the tester docs stuff soon as well
<knome> nice
<Unit193> knome: Hi.
<knome> nvm now, i pushed the new docs already (:
<flocculant> knome: what's th real link to the announcement#?  https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-18-04-release/ I assume
<albinard> Right now that's page not found for me
<flocculant> albinard: it will be - we've not published it yet :)
<knome> flocculant, yes
<flocculant> knome: ta
<albinard> Oops - jumped the gun - sorry!
<flocculant> heh - no worries :)
<TDO|Aquina> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/389/builds/171120/testcases/1301/results
<TDO|Aquina> haha 2 in progress
<TDO|Aquina> :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> thanks those in channel who've tested  - I'll call that a wrap 
<flocculant> night all
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<albinard> Thank you all for making computers easy for people like me!
<Unit193> albinard: Also thanks, it's respinning now. :/
<TDO|Aquina> nite
<TDO|Aquina> Has someone noticed http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/389/builds/171120/testcases/1301/results and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/389/builds/171120/testcases/1300/results have basically the same text?
<TDO|Aquina> Mening "auto-resize" and "entire disk" has the same instructions.
<TDO|Aquina> I think the auto-resize test should include some step or description to pre- or post-check a resize is possible or commenced (successfully). I'd say that missing here.
<albinard> Unit193: I'll keep an eye out for it.
<Unit193> albinard: I can ping you once I've testbooted it.
<albinard> Wow, thanks!
<Unit193> It's the least I can do, with all the help you've been.  i386 is looking fine, and64 still building.
<albinard> Well, Life just intervened - got to go for now, will check your site and test when the ne one appears.
<ali1234> where are the "preferred applications" settings stored?
<ali1234> also where is the thunar "open with" setting (per filetype) stored?
<knome> could that be ~/.config/mimeapps.list?
<knome> just a shot in the dark..
<ali1234> sounds likely
<ali1234> xfce4-mime-settings also seems related
<ali1234> so that's what thunar/exo-open/xdg-open all use, but not preferred applications
<ali1234> okay. exo uses ~/.config/xfce4/helpers.rc, which references .desktop files n ~/.local/share/xfce4/helpers/
<ali1234> (or the default locations for .desktop files)
<knome> mmh
<Unit193> I think it's mostly fine, unless we can get someone to boot the 64bit one on EFI hardware.
<knome> the comment was mostly against the "woohoo, i'm downloading it already[, go do the same/i'm better than you]" notion
<Unit193> ...Sorry, I was on the last topic still. :3
<knome> oh :P
<ali1234> why do fonts render slightly bigger in 18.04?
<ali1234> correction: some render slightly bigger, others render slightly smaller
<Unit193> knome: Pokepoke, release?
<knome> yup
<knome> just a sec
<knome> Unit193, i should have pressed the buttons in the right order, but just for the sake of it, do you see something i've missed?
<knome> hmm wait
<knome> release announcement
<knome> aaand that's out too
<pleia2> o/
<knome> hullo pleia2 
<pleia2> shall we social media the things?
<knome> next let's social mediaize it
<knome> yes
<knome> i can do twitter
<pleia2> I'll get fb and g+
<knome> i did a very boring update :P
<pleia2> haha
<Unit193> I did my site, topics, and nothing else. :P
<pleia2> I wasn't incredibly exciting either, announce, LTS basics (3 yrs) and thanks to the community
<knome> topics is good work :P
<pleia2> anyway, both done
<knome> well i didn't do the thanks...;)
<knome> maybe i should do another tweet
<pleia2> haha, nice follow up ;)
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-27
<albinard> Tested your ISO: ubi-partman failed with exit code 10
<albinard> Sorry, that's Unit193 ISO of this afternoon
<Unit193> Hmm..Any logs?  vbox or hardware?
<albinard> No logs, hardware same as all previous tests
<albinard> but I tried to go back to your Cherokee site for the md5sum to check it, and it wouldn't connect
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ they're here now.
<albinard> only the 17.10 shows up right now
<Unit193> F5?
<albinard> ???
<Unit193> That is, might want to hard refresh the page, seems it's stuck in the cache.
<Unit193> Page was updated for Bionic today.
<albinard> Did it just now checking the sum now - it does check
<Unit193> Well this is fun.  Amd64?
<albinard> Yessir, the usual.  Wrote it to a USB, first try went as far as getting my locale correctly, then chrashed and claimed to have sent a report
<albinard> FWIW, from the Live session I could see and mount (and unmount) the existing files in the original I installed from the 0420 ISO
<Unit193> This is just lovely, taking a look too of course...  I smoke tested and things seemed more or less fine.
<Unit193> Some quirks, but vbox tends to be a little troublesome.
<albinard> Trying again - thought I might have left something mounted that didn't clear
<albinard> Got to copying files anyway (cross your fingers)
<Unit193> Fella in #xubuntu had issues as well, it's one of the permission issues I've seen before...
<Unit193> It fails at the end.
<albinard> Nope - at Installing system it crashes.  How do I file a bug report from that part?
<Unit193> Have to install a browser such that one can complete the reporting process.
<albinard> Ok, Firefox is downloading now
<Unit193> Tailing the log while it installs, seeing if anything unusual is there.
<GridCube> still getting this error when trying to run apt install xubuntu-core https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Cfpw3v9dTf/
<albinard> Dang - got a timeout error on Launchpad - this time of night web here is really slow. 
<albinard> I'll keep trying for a while
<Unit193> I'm 1. Trying an install too.  2. Rebuilding amd64 only to see if there's a diff in the manifests, though really there shouldn't be.
<albinard> I did a diff of the April 20 vs 26 - what should I look at?
<Unit193> manifests?  I'd say just make sure no packages went missing and never came back.
<albinard> That was the first April 26, I should say, the no/casper/vmlinuz
<albinard> One odd thing: in the first (Apr 20) there are three entries each for linux-headers and linux images and linux-signed (ets)
<albinard> But in the second, there are three for headers, two for images, and two for modules
<albinard> Not that I know what any of that means, but there it is
<Unit193> vbox seems to have hung itself, unrelatedly...Trying something in a build, doubt it'll fix anything as the buildsystem really hasn't changed except to fix that live booting issue, so *should* be something else..
<FurretUber> Is the upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 available?
<Unit193> I don't believe it is yet.
<FurretUber> About the xubuntu-core image, was that isolinux issue corrected (it's searching for vmlinuz while the file is called vmlinuz.efi)?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<Unit193> I don't know why this cropped up now... :/
<albinard> You have my sympthy, but my endurance is running out so I will do the same.  Maybe with a night's sleep I can be of help again.
<Unit193> Thanks, good rest, mate.
<flocculant> morning
<flocculant> not finding our iso's 
<Unit193> They seemed to work, but seriously not looking like it now.  Time to pull 'em I guess.
<flocculant> good - glad I'm not going nuts
<Unit193> Well, mine.  Not the usual ones.
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ note added.
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> I'm talking about our release
<flocculant> can't find it 
<Unit193> Looks like only some mirrors have them so far.
<flocculant> well I can't see it at ubuntu
<Unit193> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ was the link that had 'em.
<flocculant> and that's empty
<Unit193> ...Doesn't seem to be..?
<flocculant> is here lol
<Unit193> 0_o
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> too early for me to care much :)
<Unit193> I'm a bit upset it's all broken for me.
<flocculant> ok - so it's not just my browser - don't see them there in a vm either
<flocculant> so what's broken for you?
<flocculant> core not working?
<Unit193> Yeah, Core installation foobers something awful..
<Unit193> https://paste.ee/p/tVnrH#s=0&l=3901 /var/log/syslog.3.gz
<flocculant> that doesn't look fun 
<flocculant> I assume it has the newer ubiquity
<Unit193> Yes it does.
<flocculant> ...
<Unit193> Hm?
<flocculant> xubuntu was dead on cdimage
<flocculant> fixed now
<flocculant> anyway - core - not sure what to say there
<flocculant> best pull it for now I suppose
<Unit193> Yeah understandable, it was fine too, but then it wasn't..That's really my problem to fix, lucky me.
<flocculant> oh - caught up - see the note on core page
<Unit193> Made it red and more obvious now.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> it does :)
<pleia2> I popped in just long enough to do the social media things...
<pleia2> almost forgot, congrats on the release everyone :)
<flocculant> pleia2: I saw that - thanks
<Unit193> Hey, thanks for that still.  I wouldn't have been able to. :3
<flocculant> well I'd have done one of them :p
<flocculant> unpinned the test post on facebook
<pleia2> :o
<pleia2> fb ui confuses brain, I didn't even notice a pinned post
<pleia2> there's always so much junk, I just scroll until I find a box to type stuff in
<pleia2> I am a brilliant technologist, I swear
<Unit193> That's OK, I haven't used it since 2010, I might not even get that far. :P
<pleia2> lol
<flocculant> pleia2: yea - same - where is that box to type in :|
<flocculant> only found the pin option recently - lucky I found it again to unpin ...
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre> Thanks flocculant, knome, and pleia2 for getting the release/announcements out :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: any update on screen reader, or are we still at "we think it doesn't work"?
<bluesabre> Spass: did you file a bug report for your menulibre issue?
<bluesabre> ali1234: font sizes... since which previous release? there's been a few fontconfig updates since 16.04 that have made things weird
<Spass> bluesabre, I will do that from my "Xubuntu for testing purposes" fresh install, that I'm about to do soon
<Spass> I can also help you in reproducing it
<bluesabre> Spass: great, thanks :)
<ali1234> bluesabre: since 16.04
<Spass> btw, 25GB for testing installation should be fine, right?
<Unit193> fontconfig had been carrying a patch for the longest time, made fonts seem slightly smoother or whatnot, dropped last cycle.
<bluesabre> Spass: definitely
<Spass> ok
<Spass> doing it right now, I'll probably ask you later about other stuff (additional PPAs etc)
<bluesabre> very nice
<bluesabre> I work today, so probably not going to respond til later/this weekend
<Spass> cool, I know where to find some stuff about that on Launchpad, so I should be fine
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/XTWh6KB.png :(
<ali1234> oops wrong image :)
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/367592323/exo.png
<Unit193> ..Well then.
<bluesabre> Embracing the hi-dpi future early with that one
<ali1234> is that config panel gtk3?
<ali1234> gnome-panel had similar problems when it was ported to gtk3 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/107130168/Screenshot%20from%202012-06-08%2006%3A44%3A22.png
<bluesabre> ali1234: yes it is
<bluesabre> If I recall, Firefox doesn't provide a lower res icon so gtk is probably being dumb and not scaling to the requested size
<bluesabre> Report that one somewhere (bz preferred) if you don't mind
<ali1234> already reported on lp but i will make an upstream bug too
<bluesabre> Cool, thanks
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14362
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14362 in General "Preferred Applications shows huge icons" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> you know, it wouldn't be the worst thing ever to show really big icons in that dialog
<ali1234> or not really big... but bigger than they normally are now
<krytarik> Ugh, from #x earlier: "The 18.04 release, codenamed Xenial Xerus,..." on https://xubuntu.org/download#lts
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> krytarik: fixed
<krytarik> Cool, thanks!
<flocculant> bluesabre: re screen reader - not got it to work - that said did some lubuntu last night - couldn't there either
<Spass> ok, my Xubuntu install strictly for testing is standing and it's ready to be blown, which PPAs from here I must add? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev
<Spass> also, do you know any tool to quickly make and upload online a desktop screenshot? preferably with an option to crop them before
<flocculant> qa experimental, daily builds 
<flocculant> and also https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<Spass> just noticed, new Greybird finally has thin 1px separator line in Thunar between sidebar, so much better!
<Spass> oh, I think I should go to #shimmer for that
<flocculant> Spass: here has most of the shimmer team
<flocculant> I think :p
<Spass> can someone confirm that the text on the buttons in gnome-language-selector is not centered vertically?
<Spass> just noteced that
<Spass> *noticed
<knome> bluesabre, thanks for the website fix, i knew i forgot something (fortunately not a biggie)
<Spass> there seems to be an issue with mouse scroll on icon set list in Appearance, but only if I access it through xfce4-settings-manager
<Spass> it works when I open xfce4-appearance-settings directly
<flocculant> Spass: yea - and reported somewhere
<flocculant> gtk3 ish issue I think
<flocculant> knome: I didn't look there either
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi knome - "To prevent this membership from expiring, you should contact the
<flocculant> team's administrator, Xubuntu Council (xubuntu-council)."
<flocculant> release team for me - unless you've got another fool willing to take over from me :)
<Spass> I've uploaded my first ever YouTube video, and it's about Xubuntu 18.04 issues :P
<Spass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4ZuxsPifw
<Spass> it's not public
<Spass> you can see three issues there, inconsistent panel icons, blinking Whisker menu, and some weird shadow visible on the app list
<Norden> Hello! This may already have been reported somewhere, but the section on version numbering in the documentation for 18.04 still says that 16.04 is the latest LTS version.
<Norden> Specifically this section here: https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/user/C/what-is-xubuntu.html#version-numbering
<Spass> I think that the best solution is to remove "The latest Long Term Support (LTS) version is 16.04, codenamed Xenial Xerus." completely, not just changing it, to avoid this issue in the future
<krytarik> Yes, hidden easter eggs indeed.. :P
<Norden> Oh, also, the contribution page for documentation on the website says to look for the documentation sources in a "desktop-guide/C/" directory, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't actually exist in the source branch.
<krytarik> Yep, also true - that was changed a while ago.
<krytarik> (That would be: https://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/)
<amerigena> What are the outstanding issues that are blocking installs with the 18.04 Core ISOs? Does anyone know yet?
<knome> flocculant, i'd say let's renew/add members to that team once the new council is set up :)
<flocculant> knome: whatever
<flocculant> not sure what the council's got to do with that tbh
<flocculant> unless it wants to look after testing of course :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: re screen reader, so for flavours it worked on - boot image, at the menu choose screen reader from F5 menu - boot to live desktop, (possibly need to Alt+Super+S) and it works
<flocculant> with us you get the desktop with no screen reader
<bluesabre> flocculant: huh
<bluesabre> any pattern to the working desktops... or is it just us?
<Unit193> GridCube: You will likely continue to get that too, since you picked something up from a PPA.  You could disable the PPAs and then go through `apt list | grep ed,loc`, downgrading everything to the version from the archives to recover.
<GridCube> i did?
<Unit193> Based on version numbers, yeah.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-28
<Unit193> '18.1~git1804050730.8cd58d~oibaf~x'
<GridCube> interesting, i don't think i'm using any ppa right now
<Unit193> `apt list | grep ed,loc`
<GridCube> WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
<Unit193> If that's all, seems you still have it installed.  `inxi -r`
<GridCube> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qgrt7GQb5w/
<GridCube> mmm it's there a way to reset the apt list?
<Unit193> ...OK, that's strange.
<GridCube> Unit193, apt says i've hold a bunch of stuff https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4tgbcXfJJG/
<GridCube> or it did it for me
<Unit193> 'ed,loc' is horrible short form of 'installed,local', so should have given you a list of every package you have that's installed but can no longer be downloaded from any repos.  apt-forktracer is a tool that's useful for finding packages not installed from the distro default repos.
<Unit193> Clearly something should be returning from the former, since you have it installed but not PPAs.
<Unit193> Additionally, you seem to have an xenial repo still enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list
<GridCube> i can disable that 
<GridCube> Unit193, ah, ed would be for "installed" and in spanish it says "instalado" 
 * Unit193 forgot about that language bit...
<Unit193> Clearly I'm only ever using it in English. :3
<GridCube> Unit193, , https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/W3m4Jr5KHn/
<GridCube> i see the xorg ones at the bottom, i have to uninstall those?
<Unit193> No, `apt install $package/bionic`, I'd do them all in one go.
<Unit193> (Some of those other packages are from PPAs, some aren't upgraded because held, and at least a couple were removed from the archives.)
<GridCube> mmhm
<GridCube> im doing them all manually
<GridCube> it seems to be working
<Unit193> upstart and xombrero are gone (though I have the latter in a PPA. :P ), boot-repair/etc are just from a PPA, variety looks like it was updated from a PPA, should update cleanly.
<GridCube> well, i guess that upgrading the system for 3 different LTS does have a toll after all :P
<Unit193> unit193@Sigma:~$  cat /var/log/installer/media-info
<Unit193> Xubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110413.2)
<GridCube> Xubuntu 15.10 "Wily Werewolf" - Release amd64 (20151021)
<GridCube> :D
<Unit193> Nah, that's not seen too many upgrades. ;)
<GridCube> i think that in 15.10 i did a format install into a new drive
<Unit193> (I'll also note that I never hung on to LTSes)
<Unit193> Anyway, all good?
<GridCube> i think so
<Unit193> ...I had a half-complete cleaning guide.
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/docs/system-cleaning.html OK, less than half complete.
<GridCube> :D Todos los paquetes estÃ¡n actualizados.
<Unit193> Heh, nice.  Any local packages remaining?
<GridCube> a few
<GridCube> brb rebooting
<Spass> I want to report this bug with panel plugins loosing hover (visible here - https://youtu.be/UY4ZuxsPifw?t=15s ) because it really annoys me
<Spass> I'm thinking about reporting it on xfce's bugzilla under xfce4-panel general
<Spass> I previously reported it wrongly under the whisker menu plugin category and it was moved/ignored
<Spass> but... I think that this issue may be related to something "above" the xfce4-panel, because I saw it occurring on Plank dock too (visible here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8qh4-wxxEZ7b3ZTZ0stb1VvdGM/view )
<Spass> upon further investigation I see that this blinking issue appears only on top and left screen edge, there's no blinking when I move mouse cursor on the right and/or bottom edge
<Spass> it's pretty old bug and it's in 18.04 too, so... I have a question for you - where I should report it?
<Spass> is it GTK3 related? or maybe xfdesktop?
<flocculant> bluesabre: us and lubuntu (probably studio) budgie, mate and ubuntu work. Didn't look at Kubuntu nor Kylin
<Spass> meanwhile, I think that I found another bug, I can't move a panel plugin where I want, some plugins don't let me "drop it" between them. See here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgL1e757Vbc
<Spass> is it known?
<ali1234> Spass: because that is one big plugin
<Spass> nope, those are 5 separate plugins
<Spass> Notification Area, xfce4-notifyd, xfce4-indicator-plugin, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin, power-manager-plugin, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<Spass> as you can see on screen
<Spass> and I can easily move that Clipman plugin between them using up/down arrows in the panel settings
<Spass> but I can't move it using "Move" from context menu
<ali1234> yes, you are right
<ali1234> and i can reproduce it
<ali1234> when moving a plugin, you can't move it immediately to the right of the plugin currently immediately to it's right
<Spass> (not mentioning, again ;) those inconsistently sized icons, it looks very bad...)
<ali1234> you know that video you posted yesterday, showing that whisker menu flickers?
<ali1234> i would not be at all surprised if that is related
<ali1234> eg because the mouseover area for whiskermenu is smaller than for the plugins which block move
<Spass> that flickering is a bigger issue I think, and it's very strange
<ali1234> they block move because their mouseover area extends beyond their area, covering the drop region
<ali1234> with the theme i use you can see that they are visibly a different size
<Spass> it affects other programs too, like Plank dock, just like there's something totally wrong with whole top and left screen edge
<ali1234> that might be related to struts
<Spass> right and bottom are ok, like I said - weird
<Spass> I really want to submit this bug (at least that much I can do to help), but I want to do it right this time, because I was kinda ignored once already
<ali1234> it wasn't because you did something wrong
<ali1234> if you want bugs to get fixed you often have to chase the developers. sometimes literally for years
<Spass> I wrongly assumed that it was only whisker Menu issue, now I did proper testing
<Spass> I know something more about this
<ali1234> yes it affects many plugins
<Spass> some may say that these are small, cosmetic issues, but I don't think so, that kind of issues may left a really bad taste
<ali1234> another piece of the puzzle is that if you use a different gtk theme, you can see that some plugins crop their own icons, where as others do not
<Spass> Xubuntu is a diamond, no doubt about it, but it only needs a little bit polish
<ali1234> theme does affect function with gtk
<ali1234> eg if you mess up the theme (possibly by specifying custom theme inside the program code) then you can actually break the widget box layout, which can cause stuff like what you are seeing
<ali1234> the flickering whisker menu thing triggered another bug with panel hiding too
<ali1234> i am sure all of this stuff is related
<ali1234> anyway
<ali1234> you should report these bugs and keep adding new information as you find it
<ali1234> this "bumps" the bug, making developers more likely to notice it
<ali1234> and keep talking about it here too
<Spass> I'll submit it for sure, but I really don't have a clue where yet :)
<Spass> I will fight for the good looking and consistent panel icons also, because just look how beautiful they look on my 17.10 :P https://i.imgur.com/XzFoDD8.png
<Spass> I made the panel slightly bigger on purpose to show that they stay small (22px)
<Spass> on 18.04 they're all wonky :/
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess if we had orca then screen reader would work?
<flocculant> would explain why it doesn't work on lubuntu as well 
<bluesabre> that sounds correct
<flocculant> morning :) didn't expect you to pop up yet lol
<bluesabre> eh, you know how it is :)
<flocculant> wonder why we don't have that :(
<bluesabre> I think we used to
<bluesabre> might have been due to dependency chain or maybe dropped because it carried too much gnome with it
<flocculant> I'll look on a vm now
<flocculant> and right - could well be
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/YuNrOvf.png
<flocculant> not much considering size of iso's now
<bluesabre> yeah, that's pretty minimal
<bluesabre> was likely pulled in by something else before
<flocculant> well I'd argue we had that back then :)
<flocculant> yea - entirely possible 
<flocculant> !team | there is a draft for our new qa/tester page on a pad - thanks to Leigh and willem 
<ubottu> there is a draft for our new qa/tester page on a pad - thanks to Leigh and willem: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> https://pad.ubuntu.com/qa-webpage
<flocculant> if you can look there - and comment 
<flocculant> all part of trying to grab new people 
<flocculant> on that note - we did see new people arrive during the last bits of testing 
<flocculant> seems my no network on suspend isn't just me \o/
<Spass> ok, I'm trying to organize my testing a bit - https://goo.gl/Jmf8UG
<flocculant> bluesabre: updated release note to older bug on that suspend/network issue - which is apparently a bad kernel commit
<bluesabre> flocculant: aha, nice
<flocculant> not really \o/ - just pleased it wasn't yet another just me thing :D
<bluesabre> Started dumping 18.10 ideas here: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/xubuntu-18.10, feel free to add things you'd like to consider
<Spass> I think that I found small issue / unsuspected behaviour in Catfish also
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok
<bluesabre> Spass: let's hear it :)
<Spass> but not sure it's a Catfish issue or Thanar's action "search" issue
<Spass> ok, so Thunar, I'm in /usr/share/icons/ folder and I RMB click on elementary-xfce-dark folder and I click Search...
<Spass> Catfish window appears, I'm searching for "uget"
<flocculant> bluesabre: when Spass has finished I got a parole thing ...
<flocculant> tough I think I know the reason
<Spass> and I'm getting results from /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/
<bluesabre> Cool
<Spass> which is my main system on a second disk, mounted
<Spass> but why I get those results? I was searching /usr/share/icons/ not  /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/
<flocculant> I just get no file found
<Spass> yes, because there isn't any "uget" file there
<Spass> this is why I was surprised why I get any results
<Spass> turns out it searched my other disk also :/
<flocculant> Spass: are you sure that you're seacrhing in the right folder?
<Spass> 100% sure, yes
<bluesabre> Thunar tends to be folder-sensitive with actions... right-clicking on a folder "elementary-xfce-dark" suggests to Thunar that you want to do things to/in that folder
<Spass> I will try searching outside thunar, I'll open Catfish and will navigate there
<Spass> yup, when I open catfish and navigate there it works fine
<Spass> ok, so no big deal then, but still slightly confusing
<flocculant> bluesabre: Parole - add files to playlist, if I try to add multiple entries - it does the same revert to one line only (same as deleting multiple things in catfish) - is that the gtk3 issue we discussed?
<flocculant> oh - and I added some stuffs to the wiki :p
<Spass> any way to make this thunar action more specific? "catfish --path=%f"
<Spass> to avoid this issue?
<bluesabre> flocculant: file a bug for that, sounds wrong
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke will do it now
<flocculant> Spass: my find search action IS that
<bluesabre> Spass: I think it's by design. If you were to right click in the white space (not on a folder) it would search the folder you're in instead of the folder you've clicked on
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/XxUBhXN.png
<Spass> nope, it's the same when I'm in that folder and click on empty space
<bluesabre> Spass: similarly, you can add a Ctrl+F shortcut to the custom action to search that current folder
<bluesabre> (Kinda surprised we don't already have that)
<Spass> seems like there's something wrong with that --path=%f
<flocculant> bluesabre: pretty sure I didn't edit the find action
<flocculant> and now parole works ...
<Spass> but ok, I'll leave that issue aside, it was just confusing to see results from other folder...
<Spass> feels not right
<Spass> "catfish --path=%f" was default, I didn't change anything
<bluesabre> Yeah, it's Thunar's action handler forwarding the path to the app.
<bluesabre> That looks to be correct
<bluesabre> The action is "Find in this folder", if you click on a folder, that's the folder you're finding in
<bluesabre> It makes sense if you know a folder has thousands of files and you won't be browsing it (or wanting to create thousands of thumbnails)
<bluesabre> flocculant: so you fixed it :D
<Spass> exactly, "Find in this folder", so why I get results from other folder also, I know the name of the folder is the same, but it's a different folder on a different partition :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: aah got it now - I assume that parole doesn't support drag'n'drop :)
<flocculant> which was what I did 
<bluesabre> Spass: oh I see... is that a symbolic link or something?
<flocculant> it just drags whichever file was last selected
<Spass> no, there's no symbolic link there
<Spass> "/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/" doesn't contain anything with "uget" in it's name, no file, no folder, no symbolic link, nothing, results window should be empty
<bluesabre> Feel free to file a bug report, seems confusing enough
<Spass> but for some strange reason I get results from "/mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/" where yes, I put those files there myself
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I think I understand now
<bluesabre> I think you may have mounted your drive twice (by accident?)
<bluesabre> I'm really confused by it
<bluesabre> :D
<Spass> it treats "/mnt/Xubuntu/usr/..." and "usr/..." like it was the same path
<bluesabre> right, that's bizarre
<Spass> and /usr/... is not /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/... :D
<bluesabre> It shouldn't do that... but it's not doing anything special with paths, it just walks them
<Spass> yeah, like I tell you before, confusing
<Spass> things you can find while wild testing...
<Spass> *told
<bluesabre> Alrighty, gotta start my day
<bluesabre> bbl
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> have a good one too :)
<Spass> https://i.imgur.com/O1j34uk.jpg
<bluesabre> Can you also screenshot a right-click -> Properties of the elementary-xfce-dark folder
<Spass> not sure should I file a Thunar or a Catfish bug...
<bluesabre> Just so there's no additional questions :)
<flocculant> I hve a question there too :)
<bluesabre> Spass: might be able to view the process in the task mananger to see what's getting launched
<flocculant> in Catfish - top left - drop down - is it actually searching the right folder there?
<Spass> in that drop down it only shows "elementary-xfce-dark" no tooltip with the whole path or anything like that
<Spass> and when I click it it shows me a list with standard Pictures, Videos etc folders to choose
<Spass> I can test one more thing, I'll put some "uget" file in that folder too, and will know if it searches both of them
<Spass> yup, it shows me that file too, so I get results from both paths... and I don't want that, I clicked specific folder to search in Thunar, not "all folders with that name on every partition I have" :)
<Spass> really weird, so that command "catfish --path=%f" is just broken
<Spass> well, another thing to add to my google docs...
<Spass> I consider myself a YouTuber now ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdaHX8mecUg
<flocculant> oh dear ... :D
<flocculant> they've got you now ;)
<Spass> eh, I think I'm done testing for today, I added my contact info to the doc, just in case - https://goo.gl/Jmf8UG
<ochosi> ali1234: that panel bug with moving plugins (it's about mixing internals and externals) is fixed in 4.13/git master btw, so not really worth spending time on
<ochosi> plus it has been around forever
<ali1234> which means gtk3 right?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> maybe the fix could be backported, not sure
<ochosi> (cavalier fixed it)
<Spass> in that case I'm sorry for reporting that, I didn't know it was fixed already
<krytarik> No need to be sorry for not taking into account changes that haven't made it into the distro yet.
<ochosi> Spass: no problem at all
<ochosi> Unit193: added something to the agenda for our next / first 18.10 meeting. just so you're motivated to schedule and run the meeting ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh crap, that's me.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-29
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> knome: so cont docs - pulled the branch - there are 4 docs for qa, there are 8 pages if I look online, that's just confusing
<knome> flocculant, hmm...
<flocculant> I was scratching my head a bit there 
<knome> flocculant, i didn't update that last time, poke me again if i don't do it timely (not on the desktop now)
<flocculant> knome: I don't mean that :)
<knome> i guess we could also ask Unit193 to set up his automatic updater there
<knome> oh?
<knome> oh, right
<flocculant> I wanted to work on them - and I'm just completely confused what's what in there now :D
<knome> !)
<flocculant> anyway - no rush at all - just mentioned when I was there - because I'll forget
<knome> yup
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre: well this is probably something you'd not expect from me ... pretty much ever, but 
<flocculant> if I'd got a changed xfce4-fsguard-plugin/panel-plugin/fsguard.c that appeared to build ok locally and work in the panel - that allowed for 64 characters instead of the 32 it currently allows
<flocculant> what do I do with it now :D
<flocculant> or
<flocculant> what could there be instead of gtk_entry_set_max_length (GTK_ENTRY (entry1), 64); so there wasn't an arbitrary character limit?
<flocculant> I assume I need to make it a patch - then report bug and attach it?
<bluesabre> flocculant: yup, that'd be it. To drop the character limit, could probably remove that call all together, or set it to zero to remove the max
<flocculant> I'll look if 0 does that in a bit then
<flocculant> once I've done that - can I haz some help in making it a patch? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: will play away from my install - when I have a question again I'll ask either of you again :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure thing
<flocculant> bluesabre: played some more - it appears to not have a fit if I comment the gtk_entry line, it also appears to allow a mount point that's 120 characters long - the tool tip however truncates at 98 characters which includes info before the mount point name (eg 111.99/1839.25 gb free space etc)
<ochosi> flocculant: yessss - finally drifting towards development! ;) you can start by reporting the bug though, that will also help clarify your use-case and make it easier for others to help you
<ochosi> flocculant: one easy way to create a patch is: 1) you check out from git.xfce.org 2) apply your changes 3) do your git commit 4) run "git format-patch -1" and then you get a patch in the naming 0001-commit-message.patch that you can upload to bz
<flocculant> ochosi: ack re bug - was going to do it all at the same time - thanks for ^^ too :)
<flocculant> not sure about why the tooltip i truncated though - it does at least work - just looks a bit manky :p
<ochosi> that's odd
<flocculant> s/i/is
<flocculant> yea - but I'd not be likely to understand why :p
<ochosi> it's possible that the text gets truncated
<ochosi> tooltips themselves usually expand
<ochosi> but i can take a look once you have your patch ready
<flocculant> ok - just looking at commit bit now :p
<flocculant> ochosi: patch looks enormous - not sure I've seen them like that, I've mailed you a copy just to be sure 
<flocculant> wandering off for a bit now
<flocculant> knome: quick question - tooltips in the wiki - where are they coming from? do we have plugin and some set?
<willem> flocculant, thanks :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I used the xfce address I have btw - hope that actually works :D
<flocculant> and looking at the size of the .patch I'm sure it's not quite right as it's 4Mb ...
<flocculant> bbl or tomorrow
<knome> flocculant, can you specify what tooltips exactly?
<flocculant> OS has Operating System tooltip
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> aha, the acronym ones
<knome> it's some dokuwiki dict
<knome> flocculant, want to add something there?
<flocculant> knome: possibly :)
<knome> just let me know
<flocculant> ok - will do :)
<knome> hmm, i think i will be disabling a few of the default ones...
<knome> or tbh, most
<flocculant> lol
<knome> including LOL
<knome> FTP is specified but SSH is not?
<knome> sigh... :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Xubuntu, Best Ever OS
<knome> ;)
<knome> flocculant, 
<knome> ISO          ISO image
<knome> LTS          Long-term support
<knome> RC           Release Candidate
<knome> QA           Quality Assurance
<knome> UI           User Interface
<knome> XSD          Xubuntu Strategy Document
<knome> flocculant, anything else that pops in your mind, and have a better description for ISO?
<knome> these are updated when a page is saved (at least), so it might not be automatic..
<knome> though there might be a way to rebuild the cache
<knome> hmm. LP -> Launchpad
<knome> and yes i realize the list wasn't in alphabetical order...
<knome> ISO          ISO image, a container file containing installation/live environment files
<knome> flocculant, ^
<flocculant> yep - that's good
<knome> s/containing/with/
<flocculant> knome: be with you shortly - getting a git lesson
<flocculant> :p
<knome> mmmmm ;)
<knome> no worries
<knome> take your time...
<flocculant> VM - Virtual Machine
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> yup
<knome> vbox?
<knome> though i think it's subject to correct capitalization...
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> VBox
<flocculant> VMWare
<flocculant> KVM
<flocculant> or just VM - Virtual Machine :)
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: xfce 14367
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14367 in General "Mount point has 32 character limit." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14367
<flocculant> with patch - and thanks to krytarik :)
<krytarik> You sir, are very welcome! :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: can't think of any other acronyms at the moment 
<flocculant> but I am a bit 0_0 after the git stuff :p
<knome> i can, but not suitable for the wiki...
 * flocculant took ages with bzr too 
<knome> you are lucky, i added Bzr and Git acronyms too ;)
<flocculant> well yea ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: and xfce 14368 for the panel plugin truncate issue
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14368 in General "Tooltip for fsguard plugin with long mount point truncates" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14368
<flocculant> and that's just about enough of things I need to think about for today :p
<knome> ;)
<knome> nighty
<flocculant> oh I'm not gone - just not playing with git or the like :)
<ali1234> hmm just removing the check?
<knome> haha ok ;)
<flocculant> knome: re bugzilla - not possible to make original comment editable like Lp? or not wanted?
<knome> hmm, it should be possible
<knome> or maybe not
<knome> i guess no comments are editable, or am i wrong?
<knome> but tbh, until we know which bug tracker we are using one year from now...
<flocculant> afaik not
<knome> yeah, then it's the same for the first comment
<flocculant> ali1234: you talking to me?
<ali1234> yeah
<flocculant> just checking - was bluesabre's suggestion - I did try changing the value - but then where do you stop
<flocculant> though I'd be wondering about a mount point that was 100's of characters long too
<flocculant> came about because of a user in #xubuntu who was having issues with a samba mount point in the plugin - which I'm guessing could be quite long, not sure though
<ali1234> there's another place with a 16 character limit
<flocculant> name?
<flocculant> guessing ...
<ali1234> "entry3"
<flocculant> got the plugin open - it's name 
<ali1234> oic
<flocculant> I'd wonder about having a long name for sure :)
<ali1234> the guy who wrote that line of code hasn't touched it since 2012
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I doubt that I would again either - not something I ever use 
<ali1234> and the line itself is from 2007
<ali1234> if you're the last person to patch it, that means you are the maintainer :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> then I'd best ask krytarik how to get rid if a bit quick :D
<ali1234> what does it even do?
<flocculant> the plugin?
<ali1234> oh, checks free space
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> you can set levels to warn at seemingly
<flocculant> anyway - off now - night all
<knome> nighty
<ali1234> a modernized version of this plugin should probably just check all mounted filesystems automatically, given that just about everything is automounted now and users arent really expected to know about mount points
<ali1234> and there's probably an API just for doing that now
<ochosi> ali1234: if you feel like cleaning that up, go ahead...
<ochosi> there have been a few attempts at cleaning up and merging all those "monitoring" plugins
<ochosi> the concept has been around since xfce 4.10, so since a while ;)
<ochosi> just nobody ever really wanted to spend the time to consolidate fsguard, cpugraph, systemload, generic monitor, ...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-22
<portven> hello i need to update my xubuntu 18.04 to 19.04 ......can you help me
<portven> hi
<portven> i need some help
<krytarik> Well, 1.) the support channel is #xubuntu, but 2.) you'd need to set the upgrade preferences to check for any release rather than just LTS ones.
<portven> yes 
<portven> i need to update ......but my pc is 32 bit pc .......
<krytarik> Well yeah, this won't work anymore.
<portven> and i heard xubuntu wont release 32 bit anymore is it true
<portven> ok 
<Spass> upgrading 32-bit 18.04 doesn't work? I didn't know that
<ochosi> brainwash: could you test the icon theme fixes from yesterday with Thunar please?
<brainwash> ochosi: https://i.imgur.com/64OfjbM.png
<ochosi> kewl, thats as expected
<flocculant> !team - bye guys :)
<ubottu> flocculant: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> !team
<ubottu> akxwi-dave, bluesabre, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> bye peeps - though I'll be about for a while off and on
<flocculant> I'm gone from the Council now - before I went from Team, so when bluesabre or Unit193 remove me from there - it'll look like I'm still in it
<flocculant> I'm not ;)
<flocculant> been great working with you all - but life moves on 
<flocculant> knome: can you remove me from the team factoid :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: it's been great, take care!
<flocculant> I shall - you too :)
<Spass> I can confirm this issue - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2019-April/010975.html
<brainwash> Spass: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15100
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15100 in General "Finding a file by typing stops working randomly" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> so, fixed in the next exo release
<Spass> great, thanks
<sorinello> best wishes flocculant 
<Eickmeyer> flocculant: You'll be missed.
<knome> flocculant, done
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Just so you know, that song has been running through my head for the last 10 minutes now.  I appreciate the email's subject though!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-23
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: how much work would it be to get xfce4-session into https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa ?
<ochosi> i'll try to use session on a daily basis now - or at least i'd like to - because i feel that's a blind spot in testing 4.13
<ochosi> so i may also start pushing patches, but for that the daily build would help (also to encourage others to test)
<Unit193> Create a git import of that, create a packaging repo, set to build?
<ochosi> if the answer is "yes, i can happily do that because it's almost no work" then pretty pleeeease :)
<Unit193> I haven't set up bzr imports in a looong time.
<Unit193> ochosi: -settings breakage: po file: dialogs/display-settings/identity-popup.glade
<ochosi> can you point me to the exact output?
<ochosi> or does it not tell more details
<ochosi> cause that glade file isn't new
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/420720572/buildlog_ubuntu-disco-amd64.xfce4-settings_4.13.4+git-2~2816~ubuntu19.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
<Unit193> The usual:
<Unit193> The following files contain translations and are currently not in use. Please
<Unit193> consider adding these to the POTFILES.in file, located in the po/ directory.
<ochosi> ok, fixed.
<ochosi> thanks for the hint
<ochosi> still, i'm wondering why this built before. as i said, the file was always there
<ochosi> (at least since 4.12)
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/xubuntu-artwork/elementary-xfce-debian/revision/3 version will be higher again now.
<ochosi> kewl
<Unit193> Thanks, ochosi.
<ochosi> np
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ochosi: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/dialogs/display-settings/identity-popup.glade?id=d124fa70098c12a623a1577811a6fa92d693c5e6 You added this string with 'translatable="yes"'
<ochosi> well thank you glade...
<ochosi> this one really isn't helpful for translations...
<Unit193> Nope. :D
<Unit193> Adjusted all PPAs for eoan, bumped elementary's version (but not parole, can't push that one.)
<ochosi> i'll remove it from POTFILES agian and drop the translateable tag again...
<ochosi> ok, fixed...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-24
<Unit193> ochosi: Can we drop this delta https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-datetime-plugin/0.7.0-1ubuntu1?  Nobody cares about this plugin anymore, right?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I could theoretically apply that to master and do a release
<bluesabre> (at least apply it to master)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heh, looked at a bunch of our delta, and it's 'lp######.patch' patches! :P
<bluesabre> oh hey, I do that all the time
<bluesabre> Unit193: look, I even have recent commits :D https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-datetime-plugin/log/
<bluesabre> time for bed, good night everybody@!
<Unit193> G'nighty!
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-datetime-plugin/commit/?id=c66b3ae4dc582bb06d009b28bcc5ecbb33c54bc0, next release, no more delta
<Unit193> \o/
<Spass> that "Example for a custom action" description should probably be changed here - https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Thunar/uca.xml.in
<Spass> line 36
<andreas> Hallo
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-25
<DarkTrick> #join libreoffice
<Unit193> Who's next on meettings anyway?
<knome> check the wiki?
<knome> also, isn't it "council" foe the first meeting of the cycle anyways
<ochosi> also, who is replacing flocculant in the council?
<ochosi> has that been discussed in the council?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-26
<Unit193> ochosi: Heh, about that.
<Unit193> For anyone not on the devel list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-April/011782.html
<Unit193> knome: You've got a removal request (I can't ack it.)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-27
<Unit193> FWIW, the bugs team isn't subbed to elementary-xfce, xfce4-eyes-plugin, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, or xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-28
<flocculant> ftr - slickymaster has been next on the meeting for about 18 months ...
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah I think we're going to reset it at bluesabre.
<bluesabre> I'll get one scheduled soon
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-20
<Unit193> bluesabre: So I ran the 'get-pot.sh' script, merged the translations with the msgmerge tool, then diff'd the translation percent: http://paste.openstack.org/show/8OpGNiuGJXRNBIHUuIat/ it's a bit painful.
<jphilips> thunar taking up 1 cpu has happened to me twice in the last day :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: so maybe we don't ship those translations yet, and install call for updates to them and get them out for 20.04.1?
<bluesabre> s/install/instead
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Update supported kernel packages @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=c0e59184d807f50ec6f89d3800758691fda1b601 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<bluesabre> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gtk-common-themes/-/commit/77468200d2e287ba041aed1e5c475f0958af4a5f :)
<TJ-> Heads up about an Xorg regression affecting multi-monitors a recent upgrade caused; might not be specific to Xubuntu but affecting 6 new Lenovo E495's here Bug #1873895
<ubottu> bug 1873895 in xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu (Ubuntu) "Regression: block staircase display with side-by-side monitors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873895
<bluesabre> Thanks TJ-
<TJ-> bluesabre: struggling to figure out how to further track it down; any suggestions as to what to attack welcome!
<bluesabre> TJ-: We updated xfwm4 recently, not sure if that could be related
<TJ-> bluesabre: let me review the package upgrade list!
<TJ-> ooo!! xfwm4:amd64 (4.14.0-2ubuntu1, 4.14.1-0ubuntu1)
<TJ-> so if we downgrade to 4.14.0-2ubuntu1 that would be a worthwhile test
<bluesabre> Yes. Iâd be curious about that. Somebody else mentioned the same issue, but their screenshot showed a completely normal desktop.
<brainwash> the gitlab issue points to https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16716
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16716 in General "don't use xpresent on AMD CARRIZO as it produces garbled screen" [Normal,New]
<TJ-> that's where we started! in my bug report I linked to the amdgpu 'driver' bug though
<TJ-> the bit  didn't understand is the mention of xpresent vs glx, and "...switched back to glx" 
<brainwash> 4.14.1 uses xpresent when an AMD gpu is detected
<brainwash> .0 used glx
<TJ-> aha!
<TJ-> thanks for the explanation. I'm not at the office but just realised I've a HDMI monitor and cable close to hand so I can test it now
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=23900123ad8418149897a094d1096d6ecb984d3c
<TJ-> It would help to test it still fails before downgrading! Didn't have the problem with the older package but just doing a full upgrade to test if it does fail here
<brainwash> it's a last minute change for sure
<brainwash> meaning that .1 was not tested much at all
<TJ-> well grrrr, cannot reproduce!
<TJ-> Got it!!
<TJ-> The eDP is 192x1080, the external monitor here (at home)  is 1920x1200 and does not suffer
<TJ-> At the office the external monitor(s) are 1680x1050 and suffer. I just switched the resolution of this HDMI monitor to 1680x105 and reproduced
<bluesabre> No AMD gpu to test things with. Will be my next hardware purchase.
<bluesabre> If you can confirm, we can probably patch that back out after reporting upstream
<TJ-> Well, now we've got it where should I dig? I've updated the bug report with my observations about the resolution and my hypothesis as to WHY it occurs as it does; I need sleep but tomorrow we can have a crack at fixing it if I know which code to attack
<TJ-> I don't think xfwm4 is at fault here so instead of reverting there, let's attack the driver itself
<TJ-> bluesabre: which country are you in?
<TJ-> basically, looks like the driver is trying to render 1920 pixels to 1680 display - we can try to measure the block width tomorrow to confirm
<TJ-> I can work on it for now but if I get out of my depth I'm prepared to ship a loan E495 to one of you if you think you can get further
<bluesabre> TJ-: US. I wouldnât recommend shipping me anything currently, not sure if make reasonable progress.
<TJ-> bluesabre: OK ... I'm looking at the driver... a bisect might get us somewhere based on this: $ gitlog | grep present: | wc -l => 20
<TJ-> I suspect a636f42b496b0604ca00a144690ece61d1a88a27  present: Check that flip and screen pixmap pitches match
<TJ-> looks like there's a series of incremental patches around flip/pitch in present that are suspect
<xu-core-beta0tw> Core installer crashes in both VMWare and Virtual Box. Had no problem installing the Desktop ISO.
<Unit193> Running the installer from the boot menu or the live desktop session?
<xu-core-beta0tw> Both.
<xu-core-beta0tw> Tried unchecking downloads and using safe graphics option, neither helped. Crash is always near the end of the install.
<Unit193> OK, the boot menu option is unfortunately common, but live session isn't.  Did the installer complete, just crash at the end?  Do you have logs of what happened?
<xu-core-beta0tw> No, never completed so I don't know if there's an install log. I'll try again and look.
<Unit193> That'd be the logs in /var/log/installer/ and /var/log/syslog (ubiquity pushes everything to there..)
<TJ-> I've noticed an apparent xf86-video-amdgpu 'pitch' problem in Xorg log. When using single output eDP 1920x1080 the log shows "=> pitch 7680 bytes" and  7680/4=1920. with ext monitor at 1920x1200 I see "=> pitch 15360 bytes" and 15360/4-1920=1920 BUT when ext monitor is at 1680x1050 I see " => pitch 14848 bytes" however 14848/4-1920=1792 NOT 1680 as would be expected
<Unit193> TJ-: I may have missed it, did you end up trying downgrading xfwm4?
<TJ-> Unit193: yes but that wasn't conclusive since I was testing with a 1920x1200 ext HDMI - didn't spot until later that the issue occurs with the 1680x1050 output
<TJ-> Unit193: with the downgrade I didn't observe the issue BUT didn't test with the HDMI at 1680
<xu-core-beta0tw> Couldn't find anything useful in the logs so tried the installer from the desktop again in Virtual Box and this time it installed. This was a fresh image, last time I installed from the desktop after the crash took me there. If I can replicate the crash again I'll let you know. Thanks for your help!
<Unit193> xu-core-beta0tw: Hey, glad it seems to be working!
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-21
<jphilips> bluesabre: did greybird get into the themes snap? would be great if greybird-dark was also pushed in if that wasnt already done
<jphilips> not sure why, but i dont see the extract here in thunar's context menu. is there something which would be stopping this from working as it should
<Unit193> thunar-archive-plugin installed?
<jphilips> yes. fresh 20.04 i installed a few days ago
<Unit193> I don't seem to have the latest thunar, but everything else is fresh.  I have the right click option.
<jphilips> oh yes i'm running my build of thunar, would that stop the plugin to successfully work in it?
<Unit193> Yep.
<jphilips> so i have to download, build and install that one as well. nice :D
<Unit193> All plugins.
<Unit193> Build xfce4-panel?  All panel plugins you want.  Thunar?  All thunar plugins you wan, etc.
<jphilips> thanks
<bluesabre> jphilips: indeed it did, https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis/status/1252527830929420288
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks, but when i tried the command it said 'snap "gtk-common-themes" is already installed' :D
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, you might have to do `snap remove gtk-common-themes ` first, or change the channel on gnome-software or snap-store
<jphilips> command wouldnt be useful to anyone who already has snaps installed :D
<bluesabre> Oh
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> jphilips: here you go, `snap refresh gtk-common-themes --channel=candidate` will let you change your channel
<jphilips> yep i just found it out as well :D
<jphilips> was just about to reply with it, and you beat me to it :D
<bluesabre> :D
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Import xubuntu-default-settings 20.04.4 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=31a01a79507b8dfa3bf565cb6c27881f597765f6 (by Åukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak)
<Unit193> Haha "oops" :D
<TJ-> making some progress upstream on the amdgpu 'staircase' issue
<Unit193> ...Would you rather an elevator?   Stairs are faster.
<Unit193> TJ-: FYI, just poked about weechat failing on riscv and being stuck in -proposed.  It's because of ruby failing there and should be fixed shortly.
<bluesabre> Important change for our pidgin users, pidgin-libnotify is gone in 20.04
<bluesabre> Presumably depended on python2
<bluesabre> or not
<bluesabre> https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/pidgin-libnotify
<bluesabre> but gone nonetheless https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/pidgin-libnotify
<TJ-> Unit193: ahhh... I was kind-of confused as to why I was getting messages - I guess someone added my debdiff directly with the provisional changelog entry
<bluesabre> !team | Made some significant updates to the release notes. Please add or change anything as you see fit. Link below.
<ubottu> Made some significant updates to the release notes. Please add or change anything as you see fit. Link below.: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/20.04/release-notes
<brainwash> bluesabre: was this screenshot taken in the future? https://wiki.xubuntu.org/_media/releases/20.04/greybird-dark.png
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: don't seed linux-snapdragon, which no longer exists; do seed linux-raspi, which we support. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=05ca2ed1705642d5946eb5112ffa4226421f6378 (by Steve Langasek)
<bluesabre> brainwash: I like doing release numbers as the time for release screenshots :)
<bluesabre> I mean yes
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add placement-api to misc-servers @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=552a1e1f418155e28ca501f2bea03cbbde9d7769 (by Corey Bryant)
<jphilips> for those who are aware of my proposal to setup a telegram to irc bridge, you can find the test bridge in the #xubuntu-support channel
<jphilips> pleia2: ^^^
<Unit193> I seem to have missed the proposal and discussion around it.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-22
<jphilips> Unit193: when would the final core iso ready, as i'm putting the link on the release page
<jphilips> bluesabre: regarding 'desktop integration' in the release notes, is this something new to be able to run snap and flattpaks?
<jphilips> with regard to pidgin-libnotify, was it removed due a python 2 dependency
<Unit193> I'd likely be doing one last respin the night before, if there's no respins the next day/late breaking fixes then I'd update the page later on.
<jphilips> so tonight :D
<Unit193> No.
<jphilips> did 'the night before' mean the night before the release?
<jphilips> i'm utc+4, so maybe its still 22nd on your end
<Unit193> The latter half of the message is important, with regards to "if no other errors" so not *final* until the next day.
<Unit193> It's still the 21st, yeah.
<Unit193> It usually ends up being a few hours after release.
<jphilips> well whenever you do, please give me a ping
<Unit193> Gotcha.
<jphilips> which was the last release which had 32-bit. was it 19.04?
<Unit193> I have up until xubuntu-core.1810.i386.buildlog, it seems.
<Unit193> I also want to ensure albinard has a chance to go over it, he's pretty much the most solid tester at this point.  Not heard a whole lot this cycle, but doesn't help we don't have a QA person anymore.
<jphilips> yep its in the 19.04 release notes, though not  on the released page
<jphilips> what kind of testing is needed?
<Unit193> At this point, all I can do with UEFI+secure boot is presume it works, as I don't have that.  I'm not really sure of anything else specific.
<Unit193> Note: I'm not complaining, it is what it is.  Maybe there's not as much as a desire for this too, I don't know. :)
<jphilips> :D
<jphilips> this is what the release blog post looks like presently https://i.imgur.com/C6ZxtEG.png
<Unit193> On the bright side, no testers means no bugs.  I think I'm good with this. :D
<jphilips> bluesabre: let me know if any of the other known issues should be included
<jphilips> Unit193: is UEFI+secure boot new to this release and is it not available in desktop or other flavors
<Unit193> In the past it's been noted that the Core builds are community, it's likely best to note that still.
<Unit193> jphilips: Not new, just something that in theory could break and I'd never know.
<jphilips> its desktop also community :D
<jphilips> what wording would you like
<jphilips> 'xubuntu core, a community minimal installation option'
<Unit193> I'd have to look at the old release notes.  Well yeah, but the desktop is built and hosted on the official infra, so a bit different.
<knome> another LTS...
<knome> (:
<jphilips> yep. tomorrow is the big day
<Unit193> knome: Are you sure it isn't a STS?!
<Unit193> ...This isn't -ot.
<TJ-> xf86-video-amdgpu is now fixed upstream; will prepare patch for 20.04 as soon as the patch is in the mainline repository 
<xubuntu70> Hello, I AM new here. O:3 
<jphilips> knome: have to say that the trusty wallpaper is the one i like the most :D
<jphilips> utopic is also great
<Unit193> If memory services, 10.04.
<Unit193> Serves*
<jphilips> you like 10.04 the most Unit193 
<jphilips> trusty is 14.04
<Unit193> If I'm remembering the right one, 10.04 was pretty good, yeah.
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/xubuntu-lucid/
<Unit193> ...I don't remember which it was then.
<jphilips> you can click the next and previous buttons on the page to go through them
<Unit193> Yes I noticed that. :P
<jphilips> i had seen the utopic wallpaper is someones desktop screenshot and i was like, 'wow that looks nice, i should try to get it', not knowing it was from xubuntu :D
<jphilips> makes me wonder why we dont ship more of the older wallpapers
<Unit193> ...Wow, never saw the Hardy one.
<jphilips> ubuntu did a online poll on twitter and the winner got added to 20.04 :D
<Unit193> But, I like darker blue so something along the lines of Lucid or Jaunty, though I remember the former being darker.  (Man I've been around too long, should follow knome out the door...)
<jphilips> likely your screen was darker in those days :D
<jphilips> well knome hasnt left as he always comes back for a great wallpaper :D
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: desktop integration, we could always run them, but they lacked theme integration. This meant they always took the Adwaita GTK theme and basically had no icons. Regarding pidgin-libnotify, it doesn't seem to have a python2 dep directly: https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/pidgin-libnotify
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, there's more bugs I need to go through and add to the release notes
<jphilips> was the lack of theme integration because greybird wasn't in the snap and flatpak repos?
<bluesabre> TJ-: that's awesome. Way to go!
<jphilips> so what was the reasoning why pidgin-libnotify was removed
<bluesabre> jphilips: I do not know. I'll have to do some digging to figure out why.
<bluesabre> jphilips: yes, the lack of theme integration was exactly that.
<jphilips> thanks. just looking to add as much info to the shorter release notes :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> LP might be having some issues serving files. `dget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcefiles/xfwm4/4.14.1-0ubuntu1/xfwm4_4.14.1-0ubuntu1.dsc` doesn't want to complete
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.4.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-4-4-released-tp58543.html (by Graeme Gott)
<bluesabre> > Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal Final] has been updated (20200422)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-23
<bluesabre> Unless the next build makes a mess of things, I think the release notes are now ready.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> awesome, thanks bluesabre!
<Unit193> jphilips: At some point before you add the bot to #xubuntu, there has to be a discussion as to whether the team wants a telegram bridge, who would have access, mods on the "other side", etc.
<jphilips> Unit193: yes understood, though it seems strange that nobody replied to the email thread stating they were against it before actual work began to implement it
<Unit193> jphilips: When you initially asked in here, someone said what has to happen.  I was waiting for that discussion.
<Unit193> With regards to a trial, that could have been to see if it was worthwhile to seek.  I dunno. :)
<jphilips> yes pleia2 mentioned we'd need a sysadmin to manage the bot, which i did mention in my email about the group
<Unit193> Personally, I don't see why it makes sense for a support channel, we don't have askubuntu questions being piped into #xubuntu, the mailing list, forums, etc.
<jphilips> regarding who would have access, bluesabre, the bot maintainer, and whomever else from the team wishes
<bluesabre> I'm personally not opposed to it. If it means more people answering the questions or more contributors in general, it seems like a win.
<bluesabre> With how dead silent it can be in here and -offtopic, I'd also be in favor of bridging both of those channels as well.
<Unit193> Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of spam in the #kubuntu one, sounds like this is a good thing to discuss at the next meeting.
<jphilips> just spoke with someone who searched for our support on telegram and joined the group :D
<jphilips> spam from the telegram or irc side on #kubuntu?
<bluesabre> #xubuntu-devel.2020-03-31.log:10:54:50 < pleia2> dev.xubuntu.org is an Ubuntu server, if we have at least 2 systems type folks to volunteer to be on call for it, we can discuss setting it up
<bluesabre> #xubuntu-devel.2020-03-31.log:10:55:14 < pleia2> but like all of our shared resources for the project, this really has to be a team decision, presented with pros/cons and whatnot
<bluesabre> jphilips: do you mind starting a proposal somewhere so we can bring it up in the next meeting? You have buy-in from me, but we need to get the rest of the team in on it with a discussion.
<bluesabre> I'm planning to get the next meeting on the calendar for sometime next week.
<Unit193> We need to re-staff council too.
<bluesabre> Yep.
<jphilips> put the proposal in a google doc?
<bluesabre> And drop some folks out of team that haven't been seen in 6+ months (more like 18+ months)
<bluesabre> jphilips: do you have access to our wiki? (https://wiki.xubuntu.org/)
<jphilips> bluesabre: no unless i can login with launchpad
<bluesabre> I'll hook you up.
<ochosi> just to add my 2cents
<ochosi> i'm not sure i'm a huge fan of telegram for this
<bluesabre> Funnily, today's the day Windows decided to overtake my bootloader. So now I'm stuck in Redmond land.
<ochosi> i mean there are really lots of platforms we could move to
<bluesabre> I think it's less about moving to platforms and more extended the number of platforms that can communicate with us.
<ochosi> matrix, discord, ...
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but ultimately we are "suggesting" platforms when bridging them
<ochosi> telegram wouldn't be the first that comes to my mind
<Unit193> I think I'd highly recommend against Matrix though. :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> i think it's a topic where everybody has an option ;)
<bluesabre> I've been pulled into several Linux-specific telegram groups the last couple of months. There seems to be a current push there.
<ochosi> but in any case, i don't really actively hang out in #xubuntu anymore, so i won't oppose any of this
<ochosi> you're seemingly more "connected" than me ;)
<ochosi> i have only been "pulled" into discord so far
<ochosi> and my experience with it has been a little mixed
<bluesabre> Not a good thing, I didn't have time for all the work I was already doing :D
<ochosi> cool features like posting screenshots (really helps), sucky things like being out of sync sometimes...
<jphilips> bluesabre: yep that happened to be alot when i would update windows :D
<Unit193> Dual-booting seems more finicky than it used to even.
<bluesabre> Yeah, first time happening in quite a long time since using EFI. Considering just paving over Windows on this computer.
<bluesabre> Gaming on Linux has gotten to be not bad since Proton appeared.
<jphilips> when i used to volunteer with libreoffice 3 years ago, we setup the same telegram bridge and it was quite beneficial, atleast in the dev channels i was part of, as i pushed for it to be setup there
<jphilips> you can see the list of bridges that use the bridge which was used there - https://docs.teleirc.com/en/latest/about/who-uses-teleirc/
<jphilips> fedora is on the list
<bluesabre> Yaru theme development is on Telegram. That's the group I got pulled into. And the Destination Linux community (who  are a chaaaaaaatttttty bunch)
<jphilips> yep i went in there as well - DLN
<jphilips> also went into ubuntu podcast telegram to get in contact with popey
<jphilips> also went into jupiter broadcasting telegram as well
<bluesabre> If anybody has a few moments to spare, looks like most of the builds are getting marked as ready. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/412/builds/211153/testcases
<bluesabre> We just have a remaining post-install one.
<bluesabre> I'm not in my normal virt setup on this side of the hard drive. >.<
<jphilips> here is a preview of the what's new video that will be published tomorrow, though additional changes are upcoming - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iHEopDjzjltW48vqwcsZNRPSDAFhL-1O/view?usp=sharing
<bluesabre> jphilips: oh nice, you got Joe :D
<jphilips> yep i got Joe
<jphilips> one of xfce's biggest media fans
<bluesabre> xubuntu too :)
<bluesabre> jphilips: that's really well done.
<jphilips> of course xubuntu as well
<jphilips> thanks
<ochosi> hmm, i'd recommend not using greybird-dark with its regular window borders
<ochosi> that really looks a bit crappy...
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's just a preview in the wrong spot, while they're going to set them
<bluesabre> > Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal Final] has been marked as ready
<ochosi> other than this, awesome sauce!
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> i was distracted by the preview screenshot
<ochosi> nice job jphilips 
<jphilips> ochosi: so are greybird-dark window borders going to be improved, so that you'd recommend it
<jphilips> thanks
<ochosi> in what respect improved?
<ochosi> i only meant: dont mix regular greybird window borders with greybird dark
<ochosi> but you didn't do that in the video - only the initial thumbnail is misleading
<jphilips> xubuntu is up there - https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dc7Z5IjXCTijPAPLcJga2vBhjj8wheXOjS8rFz4jNYiV9TCmB9dAQ29Ks3Oi8LhkW0W93vKLJ6D5TkJcsJ7e5rs47BvMxv3r9qXx3yE3xXVau4LA7yGt0jy9r7sRKbw-fO3DPV1_
<jphilips> oh wait, wrong green :D
<jphilips> or maybe i'm mistaken
<albinard> Downloaded and installed the Xubuntu Core 0423 ISO on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS.  Install went smoothly, currently running well, configuring now.
<LuckyScooby> This should be definitely taken into account: https://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DORIME.png
<LuckyScooby> LoL
<jphilips> Unit193: any idea when the 20.04 downloads will appear on the download page
<jphilips> any eta on when we'll be announcing the release for xubuntu?
<bluesabre> jphilips: will try to do that when I get off work, unless somebody else beats me to it
<jphilips> bluesabre: never done it before, so wouldnt know what to do, so i guess its in your hands
<jphilips> i presume you have website access - here is the page with most of the stuff already completed - https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=4804&action=edit
<jphilips> you may have to made adjustments to the known issues, as i only put in the xfce pulseaudio plugin issue
<bluesabre> jphilips: will do. Should have it in the next hour. I updated the release itself, but I think the download page has to be updated separately.
<bluesabre> Oh jeez, don't copy and paste with Gutenberg
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> Alrighty, got the downloads page ready. Just tidying up the announcement, and then I'll publish everything at once.
<ochosi> nnnice
<bluesabre> !team | I've updated the site for the 20.04 release. Please let me know if I missed anything.
<ubottu> I've updated the site for the 20.04 release. Please let me know if I missed anything.: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<ochosi> bluesabre: isn't this https://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ rather xubuntu.org/download?
<ochosi> i mean there's a redirect anyway
<bluesabre> Yeah, probably better to use the direct link.
<ochosi> nice work!
<ochosi> one would probably expect more xfce 4.14 references
<ochosi> but i guess it would be a repetition of the 19.10 release notes
<bluesabre> Feel free to update it as you see fit :) I got off work and went straight to publishing the release :D
<bluesabre> But I'm hungryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> tbh i'm also rather destroyed and should go to bed soon
<ochosi> too many xfce gitlab and icon nights..
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> ...At some point I should mention in here that I've "released" Xubuntu Core too, seeding torrent and everything.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-24
<bluesabre> Thanks Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Last release it seems I uploaded 300+G on the torrent alone.
<jphilips> Unit193: added the links to the release page for core
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi, /download is the new real shit
<knome> anyway, congrats on the release everybody!
<sorinello> Unit193, there is some issue with ubuntu-core when installing it on a VM
<Unit193> Hi.
<ochosi> conga-rats everyone!
<Unit193> sorinello: Going to need some more details.
<Unit193> But VB has a history of oddities, like LP 1615363, 1447038, etc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615363 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "(Virtualbox) Installing with no swap partition results in corrupted system, despite having high RAM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1447038 in casper (Ubuntu) "Shutdown/Restart of live session guest does not work in Virtualbox, and VMWare" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447038
<sorinello> Unit193, I will come back after I try it on VmWare Workstation with the latest xubuntu-core version. I will try the ISO from here: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/
<sorinello> Unit193, I also want to mention that the official xubuntu ISO works on VB with no problems
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: platform.focal -> platform.groovy @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=bfd12e0ff6f73a27833d61f20a5f2714d00ca487 (by Åukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak)
<jphilips> Unit193: tweet/post for core going out in an hour :D
<jphilips> what's new video has been released - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_uVSNnIGY
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: https://ubottu.com/y/gg | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-25
<jphilips> someone mentioned this on facebook, and i also wondered it as well https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/1874981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874981 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu doesn't mention Ctrl + C to skip checking" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> Unit193: is there an gir-enabled xfconf package out there somewhere?
<bluesabre> Attempting to build and install introspection from source... since the egg has to exist before the chicken for the debian packaging :D
<jphilips> bluesabre: maybe you can upload the screenshots you took to the website https://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, I'll get to that today
<bluesabre> We apparently forgot to for the last 4 years, so not in the biggest hurry
<jphilips> thanks
<bluesabre> :)
<jphilips> also the community wallpapers https://xubuntu.org/tour/
<jphilips> do our system requirements need updating? https://xubuntu.org/requirements/
<bluesabre> I think those are still technically right.
<bluesabre> Though we should bump them for realistic recommendations
<bluesabre> That's a ML item most likely
<jphilips> meaning that i should email the ML about what they think it should be changed to?
<jphilips> anyone know where the flyer file is, as i think it needs updating https://xubuntu.org/products/
<jphilips> should we mention xubuntu core on the derivatives page? https://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
<jphilips> bluesabre: in the known issues, you mentioned using another window manager for the vnc issue, but dont mention any recommendations of ones to use
<bluesabre> jphilips: thanks, I'll add something to that as well.
<bluesabre> I'm starting work on a POC easy-personalization dialog... https://imgur.com/sfdmbHc.png :)
<jphilips> nice. though you are missing icon theme under theme
<jphilips> maybe change 'font size' to 'font', so both size and font face can be changed
<bluesabre> Yeah, one thing at a time. That theme option will apply the GTK/WM theme as a pair. Icon themes are separate.
<jphilips> did you see the mockup someone submitted in my bug report?
<bluesabre> Drop me a link... I think I did.
<jphilips> well you can assign this to you :D - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16633
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16633 in Appearance Settings "Automatically change window decoration theme when UI decorations change" [Enhancement,New]
<jphilips> here was the mockup https://bugzilla.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=9731
<jphilips> where can i find what is under 'effects' in the current UI
<bluesabre> Effects doesn't have an equivalent yet. This will toggle: None - xfwm with no compositor, Slight - xfwm with compositor, Medium - compton, Full - compiz
<jphilips> nice. have you seen the linux mint dialog?
<jphilips> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=9550
<jphilips> http://packages.linuxmint.com/pool/main/m/mintdesktop/
<jphilips> will this be a xubuntu exclusive?
<jphilips> Unit193: this person is greatful for core https://twitter.com/ryjelsum/status/1253878724694433792
<jphilips> bluesabre: will 20.10 also ship with compton and compiz, or will those entries be disabled if they aren't installed?
<Unit193> bluesabre: You need it all the way up the chain, so whatever deps xfconf also needs gir (libxfce4util, ui, etc)
<bluesabre> Unit193: Yeah, I got it to work.
<bluesabre> gir doesn't work installed to /usr/local it turns out
<Unit193> Not surprising.
<Unit193> I should dig up my old gir patch(es).
<ochosi> bluesabre: how exactly are those scaling options going to work with X11 though? :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: the performance poor way
<bluesabre> If the people want hidpi, let them have it :D
<ochosi> oh right
<bluesabre> GTK scale to 2x, X11 scale it back to 1.25x
<ochosi> well why not include it in the display settings dialog though
<bluesabre> Going to prototype doing it well in python before I try to make C bend to my will
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> actually there are some display things on the 4.16 agenda, in case you wanna take a look
<bluesabre> Sure thing. Now that 20.04 is past us, I can think about Xfce again
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> now we can slack again for 3 cycles - yay!
<Unit193> Oh that reminds me.
<ochosi> of starting to slack?
<Unit193> No, that thing we're supposed to do after LTS releases. :3
<bluesabre> Council
<bluesabre> Update memberships
<ochosi> oh that :)
<bluesabre> I guess we should have ourselves a membership-oriented meeting next week and get some mails out very soon
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-26
<jphilips> another request by press for us to release the notes early - https://youtu.be/Ykee4RJ5aiE?t=473
<brainwash> you call that "press"?
<brainwash> isn't it this? https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/20.04/release-notes
<brainwash> the Ubuntu Studio release notes list the following issue on top of the Xubuntu ones: bug 1873244
<ubottu> bug 1873244 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "blue corner" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873244
<bluesabre> jphilips: doesn't change the fact that we weren't done with the release or notes until the day before :) In a perfect release, we'd be done the week before, but we haven't had one of those yet since Xubuntu started in 2006 ;)
<jphilips> bluesabre: we'll here's hoping for one the next time. :D
<jphilips> well*
