#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-08-27
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Daily-release every 4-hours - the process | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21952/client-1308-daily-release-process/
<robru> anybody else finding that kiwiirc is not working in the frame? gotta open it in a separate tab before it does anything. on the summit page kiwi just shows a featureless grey box
<fginther> robru, sorry not using kiwiirc
<robru> fginther, well, me neither ;-)
<roadmr> hello
<robru> wait, it's 10 past the hour... i don't see any video!
<zyga> same here
<Mirv> coming soon
<sil2100> Starting the session
<Mirv> sil2100 just pressed the button
<Mirv> :)
<zyga> I guess everyone was watching the plenary
<roadmr> people running down the hall after the keynote, they'll be here soon :)
<Mirv> yeah, plenary went a bit overtime
<robru> ah
 * slangasek arrives out of breath
<lool> all the good seats are taken
<lool> sil2100: URL?
<lool> (sorry missed it)
<Mirv> lool: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8e384c96c6513553d5f20527f056b191799c341a?authuser=0&hl=en
<lool> thanks
<Mirv> or anyone else who wants to join the hangout
<sergiusens> lool: Mirv think of joining myself, will drop off if other people need to get in
<rsalveti> sergiusens: join in
<slangasek> reminder: lower third
<robru> quaternourly release!
<kenvandine> :)
<lool> can't enable lower third nor toolbox
<slangasek> lool: AIUI it only works to enable it via the toolbox; if you click on the 'lower third' icon directly that sends you on a wild goose chase
<lool> (geting an error with lower third and some display issue with the toolbox settings)
<slangasek> if you close out the sidebar and reopen the toolbox, maybe that helps?
<lool> I initially pressed the toolbox one, but it just shows up a blank settings panel
<lool> no luck with removing and readding the extension either
<lool> I will switch to google-chrome in the next session
<lool> using chromium right now
<Mirv> maybe Google has started preferring Firefox over Chromium, works fine here ;)
<sergiusens> chromium works fine
<xnox> Are there links to that spreadsheet?
<xnox> sil2100: ^
<slangasek> I think it's linked from the blueprint
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> also it's in the pad
 * xnox logs into the pad.ubuntu.com
<xnox> ah
<lool> xnox: in the pad
<Mirv> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=3
<lool> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=3
<xnox> ack.
<lool> ah too late
<slangasek> so is this session solely informational?  or do we have problems with the current setup that we want to solve yet?
<lool> slangasek: it's meant to be informational first, but I think it's also a Q&A and I certainly intend to bring up some issues with current approach  :-)
<slangasek> ok
<sergiusens> slangasek: I want to bring up how migration to click for some of these could break the stacks
<sergiusens> also vanguards in the opposite direction
<sergiusens> or what does it really cover
<slangasek> sil2100: will there be time for us to discuss these things? :) ^^
<xnox> to me a hightlight word that daily-release wizards highlight on would be nice "dailyvanguard" or some such, similar to like "webops" nick alias.
<slangasek> Mirv: you may want to turn up your input
<asac> lets give him a few more minutes. i think that its pretty useful to get that information at first
<Mirv> slangasek: right
<sergiusens> their handling the collision
<sergiusens> they're
<sergiusens> lool: a lot
<xnox> slangasek: flying the flag, eh?! =)
<slangasek> of course
<nuclearbob> agrees
<nuclearbob> *agreed
<cyphermox> lool you sound like a robot
<cyphermox> :)
<nuclearbob> and now he looks like one too
<cyphermox> I take that bad, it's more like Microsoft Bob
<cyphermox> *back
<lool> sh8t
<cjwatson> I thought this was being addressed by the scheme where autopilot tests could alternatively refer to a bzr branch for click packages
<cjwatson> (and exact revision)
<cjwatson> Not ideal since it doesn't test things in place in the same way, though
<lool> (did I sound ok this time around?)
<Mirv> lool: yes
<asac> we surely want to contiunue doing daily release testin
<asac> on apps
<asac> cjwatson: yeah, a bit hacky, but if only thing we need is source, it probably can be used for now
<cjwatson> I'm happy-ish for the time being.  A bit concerned about making sure the apparmor profiles are properly in place
<asac> right
<lool> I think what helps is using some unity api to launch apps from the tests
<xnox> cjwatson: is a "test" extension be accepted in click packaging? cause as an app-dev i'd want to package/run/test autopilot tests.
<lool> rather than launching apps directly
<cjwatson> xnox: Quite a bit would need to be done to make it possible for two different apps to see each other
<asac> is it super bad to allow autopilot tests just to be stored in the .click packages in a dir "autopilot/" or so ?
<asac> :)
<xnox> cjwatson: ack. no-dependency assumption.
<asac> not sure how big the .click packages would grow with tests included or if it would do any harm for production
<cjwatson> Something like that is probably a better long-term approach, but I think it's fine to do hacks for now
<asac> ack. just thought maybe that would even be simpler
<asac> to implement. but whatever works for now :)
<cjwatson> ah, if we're going to launch things through upstart, that indeed makes sense
<asac> fginther: ^
<sergiusens> asac: that is the plan we discussed and ironed out
<slangasek> lool: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/StackPublish ?
<fginther> agreed
<sergiusens> asac: there'sa blueprint I can fetch that has all this
<asac> sergiusens: so then we can defer the bzr approach for now?
<xnox> lool: maybe disable webcam, to get better audio throughput uplink.
<asac> if we just store stuff in .click thats good enough
<asac> sergiusens: cool. thanks
<sergiusens> asac: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-s-image-based-updates
<slangasek> I think the current documentation doesn't help much with "outsiders" getting a handle on the process
<lool> xnox: is it still bad?
<xnox> lool: make a pause every 40s, it kind of drifts & catches up =)
<roadmr> haha :) you could also try reducing your bandwidth (slide bar on the top right of the hangout)
<sergiusens> asac: we decided we didn't want the tests inside the packages, that was my original idea
<sergiusens> that and bundle the unity8 autopilot emulators and sdk ones
<xnox> sil2100: is there a bug tracker for ps-jenkins merger?
 * xnox 'd like to file and track bugs/issues with daily release.
<sergiusens> xnox: merger != than daily release
<fginther> There is also the general concern with how community developers would share an application and the tests (i.e. would this be facilitated through qtcreator?)
<asac> sergiusens: was there a valid reason to dismiss that approach? feels easiest to realize
<xnox> sergiusens: ha =) who is responsible for ps-merger then?
<cyphermox> well, most people in the "stack" teams don't have upload rights anyway
<sergiusens> asac: the other is already done
<asac> aha
<fginther> xnox, ps-merge is my team
<fginther> er, ps-merger
<cyphermox> it's always still possible to upload a package yourself to the archive
<sergiusens> asac: phablet-click-test
<cyphermox> sil2100: ^^
<ev-uds2> If upstream projects don't want to constantly dig through Jenkins, can't we just push notifications of problems to them when problems occur?
<fginther> xnox, the main project is lp:jenkins-launchpad-plugin
<cyphermox> ev-uds2: that's what we do
<xnox> fginther: thanks.
<cyphermox> ev-uds2: jenkins isn't doing such a great job of emailing, but we have an escalation process as we look through the issues
<cyphermox> ev-uds2: and through that we notify specific people for the team responsible for the package that has issues
<cyphermox> lool: +1, the vanguard process probably needs to be better communicated
<cyphermox> sil2100: ^ having a channel could help for this, but it does increase the complexity of the communication channels
 * slangasek hops off to prep for the next session.  Thanks, all!
<Mirv> cyphermox: #ubuntu-desktop?
<cyphermox> Mirv: ubuntu-desktop gets a lot of noise. but it could be added to the topic I guess
<sergiusens> #ubuntu-desktop doesn't cover the whole of daily release though
<cyphermox> sil2100: ^ ^^^^ there are enough people to ack packaging changes...
<Mirv> sergiusens: but all the vanguards are part of the team
<sergiusens> ubuntu-release feels more appropriate
<cjwatson> rather #ubuntu-devel
<cyphermox> cjwatson: sorry, yea that's what I meant
<asac> sil2100: how reliable is your phone testing done with otto? does that yield the same results that we see on the image dashboard?
<cyphermox> but even without resorting to that, me, kenvandine, are core dev on the team
<asac> is that something we hsould look at also?
<cyphermox> sergiusens: I'm not sure. there are quite a few failures that consistantly happen again, plus while the packages are always built when there is a merge request, it only runs unit tests
<cyphermox> sergiusens: the daily-release process additionally runs integration tests before an upload
<sergiusens> cyphermox: it runs autopilot tests too
<sergiusens> cyphermox: on phones and x86 for autopilot
<cyphermox> sergiusens: I haven't seen that ever
<cyphermox> but ok
<sergiusens> cyphermox: e.g.; http://10.97.2.10:8080/view/Phablet/job/gallery-app-ci/
<cyphermox> sergiusens: fair enough
<cyphermox> sergiusens: rsalveti: so what are you trying to achieve? a package that ends up sooner in the distro, or getting failure notifications earlier?
<lool> I fear fginther talk over sil2100
<lool> ah stupid me
<sergiusens> cyphermox: remove duplication
<rsalveti> yeah
<cyphermox> sergiusens: alright, I'm not against that, but it's still a good safeguard to run integration tests just before an actual upload
<sergiusens> cyphermox: I'm good with that
<cyphermox> sergiusens: ok, then we're agreeing ;)
<rsalveti> just further optimization :-)
<cyphermox> cool, cool
<cyphermox> sil2100: notify all authors of the commits we land via email as we publish the packages?
<cyphermox> lool: ^
<sil2100> cyphermox: sounds nice
<cyphermox> it shouldn't be that hard to do, I'm just concerned about the spam ;D
<asac> rsalveti: +1 ... bring cause and effect closer together so the developer CAN care
<asac> about images
<rsalveti> yup
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
<asac> lool: session is over :)
<lool> thanks all for the session
<asac> good session. thanks! well done sil2100 and all
<lool> cyphermox: I think I mentioned this one
<lool> maybe I wasn't specific enough, but that's exactly what I had in mind  :-)
<sil2100> Phew
<asac> for me youtube is still running
<rsalveti> sil2100: thanks!
<lool> asac: well the hangout is over now
<lool> asac: you're living in the past!   ;-)
<nuclearbob> good session, thanks
<sil2100> Thanks guys, sorry if I didn't look enough on IRC
<asac> lool: how long? did the session finish on time even?
<lool> asac: at :01 or so
<sil2100> Need to train this 'look at two places at once'
<asac> kk
<asac> so 60 seconds delay
<sil2100> The next session here will be in 2 hours I guess?
<lool> sil2100: what works best for me is splitting screen in half vertically, video on left, other browser window on right with pad, IRC below or something
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Mir/XMir Quality and Performance Benchmarking for Saucy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21948/client-s-1308-mir-qa-and-benchmarking/
<sil2100> We'll be starting the session in a minute
<thomi> kgunn: going to join the hawngout?
<thomi> well, imagine that I spelt that correctly
<chiluk> can you cover how testing is going as far as valve/steam is concerned?  I think that was a big win for us, and it would be horrible to lose that user base.
<olli> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/MultiMonitorTesting
<istimsak> since Mir will not use proprietary drivers, can it still deliver quality 3D graphics for graphics extensive applications and games?
<chiluk> power..
<chiluk> Are you guys testing power usage of mir/xmir vs x?
<chiluk> that's an important benchmark for laptops.
<balloons> is unity8 + mir on the desktop going to be targeted for testing before next cycle?
<chiluk> especially if we end up releasing with non-proprietary drivers... lots of the open source drivers currently suck when it comes to power usage.
<istimsak> There are some applications that were created for X. Xmir will allow backward compatibility for those apps. When Mir finally take over, will those same apps work for Mir or do that have to be rewritten?
<balloons> I realize cycle gets ambiguous, sorry :-p
<chiluk> 14.04 will be lts though, is there a plan in place to backport fixes as they become available?
<chiluk> perhaps a mir-lts-backport like the kernel has?
<chiluk> sorry that may be taking things off-topic
<istimsak> You can start by testing the app that come pre-installed on ubuntu releases and the ones that are constantly downloaded.
<fginther> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/graphics/openarena/
<chiluk> can you comment on the use or non-use of the phoronix test suite?
<chiluk> nm... olli just answered it.. lag sucks.
<chiluk> do we have any test related to graphical corruption?
<cgregan_uds> I'd be happy to help with that when you need it
<chiluk> even on x there are a number of bugs related to terminal corruption... or window corruption..
<chiluk> sorry for monopolizing irc.
<olli> chiluk, welcome, good questions
<sil2100> ;)
<chiluk> the more work you guys do the less I have to do.
<chiluk> thanks.
<sil2100> hehe
<balloons> sorry I couldn't make most of the session.. logs for me... thanks guys!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: App Development | Autopilot - Discuss Ideas for Future Development | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21866/autopilot-discuss-ideas-for-future-development/
<sil2100> Starting the session!
<karni> Is the video live yet? (not here)
<fginther> karni, it should be now
<karni> It's on
<sil2100> karni: it should be
<sil2100> Ok, cool
<karni> sil2100: \o/
<slangasek> thomi: python3! python3!
<slangasek> :)
<doanac`> where's the moderator :)
<sil2100> ;)
<fginther> slangasek, is there a drop dead date for python 2 support?
<slangasek> fginther: would be best to confirm with seb128, but TTBOMK the goal is still to get python2 off the Touch images for 13.10
<plars> it's there now, because we have to have it to test with
<plars> if it's not part of the system images, it won't be easy to install
<elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1210260
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1210260 in Autopilot "forcing the emulator name to be the same as the qml type it's too restrictive" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> plars: well, yes, this is my point - autopilot should be migrated to python3
<slangasek> python3 will be on the Touch images for 13.10
<balloons_uds> the biggest thing to chat about now is doing proper waits
<doanac`> balloons_uds: you want to join the hangout?
<balloons_uds> we can't always do a waitFor or eventually, because a click doesn't register sometimes.. What ends up happening is looping for an object, or looping an action for an object
<balloons_uds> sure
<doanac`> sent you a PM with the link
<alesage> iirc there's something like elopio's suggestion in the Selenium web driver: http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/04_webdriver_advanced.jsp#implicit-waits
<elopio> alesage: yes. The nice thing on selenium is that it never returns None. It throws an exception.
<plars> I'm not sure why autopilot should care
<plars> right, it's just another device... that's more of a utah or jenkins script problem to talk to it (which may be slightly different if we don't talk to it by adb for some reason)
<plars> at the very least, we would probably have greater control
<plars> rename autopilot emulators to something else! :)
<plars> I think the work we'll need to do will be more in terms of - we have to "poweron" the emulator device via software
<plars> but yeah, I think that discussion is outside the context of this
<thomi> any other feature requests?
<lool> (python3?  :)
<lool> j/k
<thomi> lool: yeah yeah, it's coming :)
<sergiusens> doanac`: is daemon cut for good?
<sergiusens> fginther: good one
<sergiusens> thomi: evdev
<sergiusens> thomi: fginther http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6034052/
<sergiusens> thomi: I agree with you
<sergiusens> thomi: should be in the sdk
<sergiusens> balloons: should be an easy fix
<balloons> sergiusens, :-)
<sil2100> Thanks guys!
<sil2100> See you tomorrow everyone
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
<nyula> hi, anybody there? this site need an count down to those summit,  many people dont understand time-zone conversion
<aa> tes
<Guest80941> yesyes
#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-08-28
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Qt 5.1(.1) migration plans and blockers | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21934/client-1308-qt51/
<sil2100> Hangout link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/368836c93bc010c273ce53686164a50dd2e47904?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link
 * rsalveti waves
<ScottK> Did anyone from upstream review this patch?
<tsdgeos> sil2100: ââââ
<rsalveti> Mirv: is the package with jit enabled by default on arm already available in the ppa?
<rsalveti> we'd like to have it enabled by default if possible
<rsalveti> it's way faster at least
<sil2100> ScottK: you mean the QPA themeplugin order-load patch?
<ScottK> Yes.
<rsalveti> one easy way to check, is going to https://www.webkit.org/perf/sunspider/sunspider.html
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: ^
<pmcgowan> ok
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, please do ;)
<rsalveti> if it works fine with that, when testing jit, then it'll probably work everywhere
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: sure :-)
<sil2100> ScottK: not yet, as I said, once I get some info from the upstream developers and then assess if it's really needed
<pmcgowan> ScottK, what do you think about getting 5.1 into saucy?
<sil2100> ScottK: but it seems so for now at least
<rsalveti> Mirv: pmcgowan: do you know the status of the pixelratio patch in qtwebkit?
<ScottK> I think you're better of to go to 5.1.
<rsalveti> that was the most annoying one to fix, besides jit
<pmcgowan> ScottK, yep
<ScottK> Whatever rough edges it has, it'll be an overall improvement.
<rsalveti> +1
<rsalveti> right
<rsalveti> ok, thanks
<asac> as long as the impact is well understood and all stakeholders are happy, i also feel we should do it
<rsalveti> yeah, that needs to be fixed before switching I guess
<pmcgowan> asac, yes, we need a concerted testing plan, then flip
<rsalveti> do we want a formal call for testing (if it didn't happen already)?
<asac> yeah. that would be cool
<rsalveti> asac: can we test custom images already using the same infra used by the official image?
<asac> can we prepare stuff outside and do a binary copy? building qt takes a while, so we reduce the time where we are in an inconsitent state
<rsalveti> I'd like to get it run over all the smoke tests we have
<asac> rsalveti: i would like to see it prepped in ppa, tested and directly/atomically binary copiued over at best
<rsalveti> that's fine, and the builders are way faster nowadays
<asac> tahts tehe safest route i see
<rsalveti> well, that can break the green results :-)
<rsalveti> I wanted a parallel image, and make it tested the same way as the original one
<asac> i think there is some risk acceptable
<rsalveti> to see if there's any other regression in the apps
<asac> if we do our homework, roughly know what to expect (e.g. what can we explain will break)
<ScottK> Debian has done a lot of work on Qt5 recently.  I would also suggest merging their 5.1 packages and then updating to 5.1.1, if they haven't already.
<rsalveti> asac: well, you're stopping CI today because of that issue
<asac> then i am fine
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, you think a custom image?
<asac> rsalveti: we dont stop it... we put it in manual/coordination mode
<asac> which means we just go step by step
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: we can easily create a custom image if needed, but just wondering if that will help testing it
<asac> to ensure the big things land in an isolated manner
<asac> for easy blame :)
<asac> at best we manually test with dist-upgrade from the ppa that we will copy from, run some autopilots etc.
<rsalveti> maybe a call for testing using the external ppa is already enough, not sure
<asac> and then if we are happy just binary copy over
<rsalveti> asac: right, but that needs to be coordinated
<Riddell> Mirv: you can ask me or others in kubuntu to upload
<rsalveti> and we already have the test infra for the default image
<rsalveti> why not reusing that for custom images?
<rsalveti> instead of getting someone doing manual tests
<pmcgowan> rsalveti, I will talk to francis as well, maybe the 3 of us can have a call
<ScottK> Did you review what changes we have that should go to Debian to reduce the diff?
<Mirv> Riddell: yeah, I think the upload is not an issue, the allowing of upload is they key
<Mirv> -y
<rsalveti> pmcgowan: sure, sounds good
<asac> rsalveti: lets continue later ... spilled coffee all over here :)
<asac> brb
<rsalveti> lol
<ScottK> With my release team hat on, it sounds like all the discussion about risk and what's being done to mitigate it could be boiled down to a nice FFe that would be easy to assess.
<ScottK> Understood about the packages not in Debian, but for the ones that are, it's important to keep the minimum diff for long term maintainability.
<ScottK> AIUI, the packages that aren't in Debian haven't been formally released by upstream yet, so Debian would actually prefer not to have them.  No issue there.
<pmcgowan> right
<seb128> the maintainability/minimal diff doesn't seem something that has to do with FF
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Since we're talking about the next three months today, it seems worthwhile to plan for at some point though.
<Qb1t3r> Does WebGL work on QtWebkit in Qt 5.1?
<pmcgowan> Qb1t3r, it should afaik
<pmcgowan> Qb1t3r, there is work remaining to enable it in touch
<ThanksYouMrMiner> Question Why not Qt5.1.2 ?
<tsdgeos> because there's no 5.1.2 (yet)
<Mirv> ThanksYouMrMiner: 5.1.1 was released today, so it's a bit hard to use 5.1.2 yet
<rsalveti> alright, thanks!
<Mirv> thank you, glad to have more clarity
<Mirv> rsalveti: if the JIT answer was fuzzy, yes all PPA:s (the latest ready one qt5-beta2 / 5.1.1~20130820) have now the JIT enabled
<Mirv> ah, and adding formal test call to the tasks, balloons can probably help there
<rsalveti> Mirv: thanks
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Scopes for 14.04 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21904/client-1308-scopes/
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72fd9e8502afb6b3ca99d9a43c67acd183ebbfe7?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link
<sil2100> davidcalle: ^
<davidcalle> sil2100, thanks, installing plugin... -_-"
<sil2100> Starting the session
<elopio> I would like to know the current state of automated user testing, with autopilot. Please add it to the schedule :)
<sil2100> elopio: ACK :)
<sil2100> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-client-1308-scopes <- for the pad
<sil2100> thostr_: ^
<tedg> It seems odd to say that we want server scopes for things like Deviant Art.
<tedg> Where they'd be much stronger scopes if they could use local accounts.
<tedg> i.e. I could search my private deviations
<alecu> The problem I have now building the click scope is that some results are available fast (ie, the installed apps) and some are not (ie, the apps available to install, which come from a webservice)
<alecu> should I be using different scopes for this, or perhaps I should be using a different api?
<alecu> Q: ^
<pstolowski> sil2100: ^
<davidcalle> tedg, very true, but this rely on online accounts integration too
<tedg> davidcalle, certainly, but that's not too difficult
<fugue88> Having results jump around while new results come in is really disrupting when you're trying to click/tap something.
<alecu> jamesh: great, thanks.
<alecu> jamesh: is that with the vala api still, right?
<alecu> QUESTION: will the C++ api for scopes be available in 14.04 or 14.10?
<davidcalle> Sound is lagging quite badly for me, not sure I get everything you say
<davidcalle> pstolowski, ^
<alecu> davidcalle: I can hear him perfectly
<jamesh> alecu: yes
<jamesh> alecu: ResultSet.flush
<pstolowski> davidcalle: ah. see last note on etherpad
<alecu> grat
<alecu> great
<davidcalle> pstolowski, thanks. Looking
<alecu> QUESTION: I can clearly understand how scopes running in the server return lists of results, but it's not very clear to me if those scopes can also interact with complex previews on the client side (like the scope that let's you type in your credit card or log into your account to purchase music or apps). Is that at all possible, or are interactive previews only available for client side scopes?
<alecu> *lets
<__lucio__> alecu, the previews ive seen just require some piece of data to work. like music previews
<__lucio__> alecu, we can call those previews and feed them server generated data
<lool> davidcalle: This would need some kind of service that knows what's ok to request
<lool> like libvirtd or something
<alecu> right, it will be slow
<alecu> I just wanted to understand if it was at all possible or planned
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
<sil2100> Thanks everyone
<alecu> thanks all!
<mhr3_> such a nice wrap up by thomas :)
<alecu> indeed
<elopio> thank you!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Feedback session on mir | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21936/client-s-1308-mir-feedback/
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/129ef8287d8f93045020a8dff5ef577b473f200a?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link
<sil2100> jibel: want to join in? ;)
<sil2100> Session started!
<ukbeast> finally lol
<ukbeast> Can't wait wait for MIR. :3
<rickspencer3> kgunn, what is the sense of the feedback from the call for testing?
<rickspencer3> is everything cool for FF?
<ukbeast> Question - how does Mir work with wine?
<rickspencer3> gah, I logged out of the server
<jderose-system76> i'll like to talk some about what system76 would like to see in the mir input layer, once it's written (that's not in place yet, correct?)
<jderose-system76> also, is it possible to get an invite to the hangout?
<ukbeast> does it fullscreen properly?
<rickspencer3> kgunn, if you answered my question, I think I missed it
<olli> rickspencer3, you didn't miss it
<rickspencer3> olli, kgunn I can't seem to get the youtube video to load now :(
<john-mcaleely> sil2100, ^^ invite to hangout request
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/129ef8287d8f93045020a8dff5ef577b473f200a?authuser=0&hl=en <- here you go!
<olli> rickspencer3, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhNCVh18vn8#t=306
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> looks like chromium barfed
<jderose-system76> no, i mean once the x input stack is replaced
<jderose-system76> hmm, okay
<rik-shaw> xubuntu will delay shipping xmir 13.10.  Are any other flavors working with it now, or is it going to be a "wait and see" from Ubuntu, then filter to derivatives in +1?  Any insights in communications with partners appreciated.
<rickspencer3> I'm back
<rickspencer3> kgunn, the problem was that chromium was slowly crashing for me :(
<sil2100> olli: can you join in ^?
<sil2100> Or is there not much to say?
<olli> sil2100, I think kgunn is doing a great job
<sil2100> ;)
<olli> rik-shaw, re flavors, the current situation is that only UbuntuKylin is planning to have xmir in 13.10
<rik-shaw> fair response: maybe more practical is do you guys test out other desktops along the way to see where they may stand?
<greymech> Will 14.10 have Compiz?
<olli> rik-shaw, we will once a flavor commits to use the technology
<rik-shaw> @olli: thanks for the replies
<olli> rik-shaw, it's in our best interest as an upstream to make sure our customers/consumers are covered
<olli> rik-shaw, with regards to other partners, we are talking to a group of partners that we have identified as critical stakeholder in the Mir Ecosystem
<greymech> The only flavour that I have not had running on xmir is Ubuntu Gnome
<olli> this group does include ISVs, OEMs, GPU vendors
<olli> and focuses commercial partners
<olli> Jono and team are working with the community partners, such as other upstreams (DEs) and flavors
<rik-shaw> proprietary drivers: I heard things are going on with discussions with Nvidia and AMD to support Mir.  I also read this may help Wayland as the requirements would be the same.  Do you know anything about this (if true)?
<olli> rik-shaw, this is a very sensitive topic as these discussions are under NDA
<olli> so we would prefer to not talk about it at this stage
<rik-shaw> olli: thank you for the reply.
<rik-shaw> yes, thank you.  w/o delving into the wayland discussion, just hoping there is a chance that mir could benefit even though that are skeptical / critical of it.
<sil2100> Thank you everyone!
 * sil2100 was just a decoration this time
<greymech> Thank you
<rik-shaw> thanks again.
<jderose-system76> thanks!
<john-mcaleely> thanks!
 * john-mcaleely time for food in the UK
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-08-29
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Foundations | Disccuss Critical Pieces of CI Infrastructure | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21943/disccuss-critical-pieces-of-ci-infrastructure/
<sil2100> Hangout link for the current session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
<sil2100> asac: ^
 * rsalveti waves
 * sergiusens waves back
<zyga> hi
<lool> doanac`: you're ok in terms of audio; video is a bit choppy but it's ok
<zyga> doanac`: checkbox is used for sru testing and other kinds of "testing"
<lool> what about autopkgtests?
<cjwatson> lool: it's mentioned there
<lool> ah sorry need to check the pad
<rfowler> can't see etherpad
<Ursinha> rfowler, try to "separate notes window" and it should ask to login (happened here a couple of times)
<lool> rfowler: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-disccuss-critical-pieces-of-ci-infrastructure
<rfowler> Ursinha: that worked
<Ursinha> good :)
<elmo> canonistack is a known oversubscribed resource
<elmo> you shouldn't be using it for production services
<elmo> that's what prodstack is for
<zyga> doanac`: then use aws instead of canonistack
<plars> not *too* much, but sometimes it's helpful to get at the config files directly
<plars> we do manually touch a lot of the nodes, especially those that are connected to devices
<plars> I'm probably behind where the conversation is at though...
<rfowler> most have remote management
<zyga> doanac`, plars, asac: maybe we should run lava to control the phones?
<lool> asac: right
<plars> the public/private split is due to firewall restrictions
<zyga> asac: we also have that issue (public/private) jenkins
<lool> asac: I think the QA Lab was built separated from everything else
<lool> asac: while public one was built alone just for this
<lool> perhaps worth discussing stability of x86 machines used for testing graphics (e.g. Mir/Unity)?
<lool> it's on the path to land Mir or some stacks, even if that's not ARM
<cjwatson> elmo: Yeah, I can understand the rationale.  I mostly just don't want to silently not mention that it's a practical problem for us, in this kind of session, although it is something we are living with
<sergiusens> rfowler: do people in the EMEA or APAC timezone have access to remote management?
<Mirv> sergiusens: yes, the problems we've had have been that remote power switching has not been enough
<rfowler> sergiusens: i don't see why not
<Mirv> or some of them, obviously many have been resolved with power switching remotely
<sil2100> sergiusens: sometimes we could resolve it remotely, but there were moments when this was not enough
<sergiusens> rfowler: yeah, we just need to have a goto list somewhere
<sergiusens> sil2100: I know
<Mirv> sergiusens: there's QA wiki page with quite a lot of details
<rfowler> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/QA/Lab
<rfowler> sergiusens:
<lool> doanac`, jibel: (ack)
<rfowler> sergiusens: i update it constantly
<rfowler> there are only two machines like that jibel...
<zyga> we have the same class of issues in certification test pool
<rfowler> with exception to the phones
<sergiusens> rfowler: oh, I asked ones for something so I don't restart the wrong thing regarding that :-)
<zyga> we're automatically booting about 50 machines for remote testing
<zyga> some have issue with boot-from-lan or need manual interventions often
<zyga> but we have a large lab / office where people have access to all hardware so it's easy to get around
<rfowler> i can spin up one :)
<zyga> we also look at moving to something like maas or maas derived to manage our pool
<plars> right
<zyga> with extra features for less-than-ideal-hardware
<zyga> like manual action console for people on site
<zyga> or support for odd boot methods and one-off solutions
<zyga> integrated power management not based on IPMI
<zyga> and stuff like that
<rfowler> asac: we are limited by space in this current lab for that
<zyga> perhaps the same stuff can be reused to run other lbas
<zyga> labs
<chiluk> or you could get a good remote control adapter
<zyga> (and we're also going to use tablets/phones there)
<chiluk> or machines that come with a good one.
<chiluk> like hp ilo etc.
<Mirv> rfowler: btw that page being up-to-date has been very appreciated when we've been remote debugging
<plars> yeah, I'm lost... I think the conversation took a very different turn
<chiluk> in this day and age there is no excuse to need someone to go push buttons on a server
<lool> ev: it's not jenkins, it's the physical slaves
<lool> ev: like e.g. some machine with ATI graphics
<ev> ah, right
<rfowler> Mirv: np
<zyga> we also have two physical labs so we have all-globe coverage pretty much
<plars> I think it's more like needing to add lots more devices and move towards scheduling them more dynamically
<rfowler> Mirv: keeps me sane too when I bring up all these boxes
<lool> or nexus 4 / nexus 7
<cjwatson> chiluk: A lot of the stuff here is inherently not server-class, surely (e.g. mobile)
 * zyga feels totally ignored here ;)
<sergiusens> zyga: i'm reading you
<chiluk> cjwatson, I understand mobile...
<sergiusens> but the conversation seems hard to interject
<lool> zyga: (I'm reading you but mostly throwing questions at the conversation from the hangout :-)
<zyga> thanks!
<zyga> I think we have the _exact_ same problems but you have a bit larger scale, I'm just interested in getting a good solution for both teams
<rfowler> there are already 25+ phones/devices in the lab and I'm generally on top of keeping them up
<sergiusens> zyga: join the hangout!
<lool> zyga: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
<zyga> sergiusens: it's full and I don't want to interrupt you that much but ok
<lool> zyga: isn't it up to 15?
<chiluk> doanac++
<zyga> it's full
<plars> iirc there were difficulties making our test VMs and physical machines provision with maas because it lent itself more to knowing ahead of time what you want, where we want the crack of the day
<Ursinha> I thought there was a 10 people limit
<plars> retoaded: you looked into that a lot I think?
<sergiusens> zyga: I'm dropping so you can join
<plars> but I still think we're having lots of different conversations in parallel here
<plars> ah
<zyga> thanks
<plars> that pc is not a huge thing to replace
<chiluk> can't we hack phones with arduinos to push buttons?
<sergiusens> zyga: get in!
<chiluk> i know the unity/mir team has something like that for their display hotplug testing
<plars> there's not much to charm for nodes like phoenix
<rfowler> chiluk: I'm working on that
<retoaded> plars, we're still stuck with what maas can provide on precise until the lab gets update to a more recent version anyway
<chiluk> rfowler nice
<plars> the only "special" piece it needs is the jenkins slave, and a bit of udev rules that we scp from just about anywhere else
<plars> that's it
<plars> where would we put our VMs if we did that? prodstack?
<plars> does it support us doing something like this and can it handle us spinning up lots of VMs in this way?
 * cjwatson drops off so there's more space for people contributing more
 * ogra_ agrees with cjwatson and leaves too 
<zyga> asac: how do you plan on using charms on the various test machines?
<zyga> asac: using openstack on virtual machines and use a juju provider for that
<zyga> asac: what about physical machines? maas?
<jamespage> here to answer questions re jenkins/java in the archive if need be...
<jamespage> elmo, either
<jamespage> elmo, fastpath = image based
<jamespage> elmo, or d-i based installed
<nuclearbob> we can still do that with pxe without cobbler
<zyga> we don't use cobbler
<zyga> and we also use maas to test servers and cloud setups lately
<sergiusens> rfowler: asac: doanac`: can we electrically open all the devices for power cycling initially?
<sergiusens> devices == phones, tablets
<doanac`> sergiusens: currently they just attached via USB to the host
<doanac`> rfowler was looking into adding the ability to "push the power button". but its pretty hard and requires soldering
<zyga> doanac`: lava lmp boards :)
<sergiusens> asac: there's the RT bucket
<sergiusens> retoaded: ^^
<sergiusens> fginther: ^^
<doanac`> zyga: thought about it, but I'm not sure if that works well with consumer products like an N4
<retoaded> sergiusens, that works for the instances that lead to an RT being filed. Many we handled via E-mail or IRC
<sergiusens> retoaded: yeah, that sort of sucks i retrospect...
<retoaded> :-)
<sergiusens> *in
<elmo> jamespage: is the image specific to MAAS or was I making that up?
<jamespage> elmo, for fast path - yes
<jamespage> elmo, for d-i its just the stock mini.iso installer stuff thats used
<rfowler> there needs to be more discussions like this
<sil2100> Definitely, this session is too short for this
<elmo> jamespage: cool, ta
<elopio> thank you.
<sil2100> Thanks guys
<asac> sergiusens: the problem with powercycling is that we also need to push the button
<asac> to start the phone
<asac> unless we keep the boot partition free i think
<asac> (on galaxy nexus)
<sergiusens> asac: I tried the free boot partition thing, it won't pan out with image based upgrade image
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Mir performance improvements | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21940/client-1308-mir-performance/
<asac> sergiusens: right. thats the problem
<ogra_> relais ...
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link for Mir preformance improvements
<ogra_> usb driver ... to glue onto the case
<ogra_> *driven
<sil2100> (brb in front of the cam)
<sil2100> Let's spin this session
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- in case anyone wants to join in, hangout link
<olli> the mentioned URL to compare Nexus and Nexus 4 - http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=Google+Galaxy+Nexus+%28Samsung+I9250%29&D2=Google+Nexus+4&cols=2
<john-mcaleely> do you have a feel for how to separate Mir performance from Unity8's? ie, how does UNity8 work on destop GL + Xmir vs UNity 8 on GLES/Touch?
<john-mcaleely> Yes - I 'd like to be able to separate Unity 8 and Mir performance.
<john-mcaleely> agreed on screen size changes!
<john-mcaleely> (I made up the config to try to isolate Mir. It may make no sense - so thanks olli)
<john-mcaleely> aha - so on desktop GL drivers, etc. Nice
<john-mcaleely> (sorry, I didn't join the hangout - multitasking at my end in another hangout)
<john-mcaleely> where's the link?
<john-mcaleely> :-)
<olli> in launchpad ;)
<john-mcaleely> ha!
<olli> kg is pulling it up
<kgunn> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged
<john-mcaleely> thx
<john-mcaleely> thanks kgunn olli sil2100 !
<kgunn> john-mcaleely: your welcome...thanks for the questions
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Sorry for not being too active, so much things to do!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Mir roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21938/client-1308-mir-roadmap/
<sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/638e314fae56e6bde09d491276807326e3b48472?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout for people who want to participate
<olli> is there any input re Mir roadmap from the audience
<chiluk> is there any plan to backport 14.10 features into 14.04?
<chiluk> in order to decrease support burden on xmir?
<chiluk> you probably heard it from me.. I don't think it's really been answered
<TheMuso> Is there going to be any form of multi-display output on our supported touch devices between now and 14.04?
<TheMuso> i.e I'll be using a Nexus 10 for a11y development, and I'm  hoping to use the HDMI out on that with a monitor for easier development and workflow.
<chiluk> thanks olli..
<arges> any talk about wireless display technologies? such as intel widi? It would be pretty cool to be able to beam my phone's screen to a large monitor.
<seepa> +1 arges
<arges> obviously intel widi might not be a phone, but something similar.
<chiluk> yeah that would be nice ..
<arges> understood. cool
<sil2100> Any other remarks?
<chiluk> we are already partnered with intel
<chiluk> right?
<kgunn> see miracast
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<sil2100> olli: thankfully it wasn't a door or a door-frame ;) Bad luck, just had to damage myself right before UDS during the wekend
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
