#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-12
<jrib> DM|: it's kind of at a standstill atm
<DM|> =( darn, i was excited when seveas told me about it
<jrib> DM|: what class would you be interested in?
<DM|> umm anything
<DM|> i've been using Ubuntu since october '05 so im not a beginner, but i would like to take part in learning all i can
<jrib> DM|: Is there a topic you are interested in that isn't on the list of past classes?
<DM|> let me look over it again
<jrib> there are basically two issues, right now, there is no one really taking leadership of the classroom and we haven't really agreed on what to do for the future (new topics or repeat the old ones)
<DM|> networking with ubuntu, wireless, etc. for 1
<DM|> VNC/Terminal server client/external IP VNC/term client
<DM|> samba
<DM|> umm
<DM|> Kernel compiling
<DM|> Debian package- and how they work
<DM|> and how to make them
<DM|> gosh i have about a million things
<jrib> the debian packaging classes during open week were very good
<jrib> DM|: you might want to contribute to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Ideas
<DM|> jrib i just edit the wiki page?
<jrib> DM|: yep
<DM|> ok.
<DM|> jrib check it out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Ideas#preview
<jrib> DM|: I won't be able to see that
<DM|> oh
<DM|> meh
<jrib> DM|: but I do see your edits
<jrib> so you must have submitted already
<DM|> ?
<DM|> so i have...
<DM|> i thought it had to be approved
<jrib> nope
<DM|> wow isnt that kind of unsecure.
<DM|> not a big wiki person :)
<jrib> that's what makes a wiki so great, everyone can contribute
<DM|> well are those good? those are things ive wanted to learn about for a while, specially battery saving mods
<jrib> DM|: yep, those are good.  I might take up the compiling one.  For your battery issues, a post to the mailing list or forum might get you faster results, or does no one seem to know there either?
<DM|> no one i ask
<DM|> its more of a "Is there ANYTHING out there that can help us laptop users get more batt life"
<DM|> cus frankly linux battery life sux
<DM|> and dont get me wrong, i am a linux only user
<jrib> I recall something about a "laptop-mode"?
<DM|> done some mods with that, nothing really helps
<DM|> i think its more to do with the hardware/kernel
<DM|> i got 1 more hour out of windows when i ran it with this laptop
<jrib> yeah that's kiind of bad
<jrib> http://www.williambrownstreet.net/wordpress/?p=23 has some tips
<DM|> i get 2:30 atm, but with a 9cell battery , i should be getting more
<jrib> my laptop battery lasts about half and hour now, it's a bit old
<DM|> hmm
<DM|> maybe you can help me with this
<DM|> echo powersave > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
<DM|> bash: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor: Permission denied
<DM|> sudo does not work either
<jrib> DM|: how are you using sudo?
<DM|> sudo echo
<DM|> etc
<DM|> should i be using sudo su
<jrib> ah but the redirection is done by the shell which only has user privs
<jrib> try:  echo powersave | sudo tee /whatever
<DM|> ah
<DM|> says caling_governor  powersave
<DM|> no
<DM|> just powersave
<jrib> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor    to see what it is now
<DM|> powersave :)
<DM|> oh
<DM|> anyway to shut of xpress card slot, and PCMCIA slot? i dont use them and they are sitting there doing nothing
<DM|> or are they automatically shut down
<jrib> no idea
<DM|> most of ACPI-support is suspend and hibernation, neither of which work correctly, but i dont think anyone should use them anyway
<DM|> what would really be a nice feature in ubuntu is to be able to down-volt CPUs
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-13
<ShakaGoldSaint> oh boy that schedule doesn't give any hope at all :(
<nalioth> ShakaGoldSaint: what did you want?
<ShakaGoldSaint> nothing in particular, i really liked the only class i assisted, the one about kernel stuff
<ShakaGoldSaint> i was just wondering when was going to be the next one, that's all
<genii> F00BaR: OK, what seems to be the prob then?
<F00BaR> im trying to install vhcs
<F00BaR> but apt-get cant find package
<genii> F00BaR: Ah, that is a bad choice :( No longer supported etc
<genii> There are better alternatyives
<F00BaR> oh
<F00BaR> like what
<F00BaR> its the only free cpanel
<F00BaR> webmin is no good
<genii> http://www.ispconfig.org/
<F00BaR> there a demo for it?
<genii> http://www.gnupanel.org/
<nalioth> gnupanel?
<genii> I think ispconfig has a demo, yeah
<genii> Thats another control panel for ISPs, yes
<F00BaR> whats best
<genii> ^^ nalioth
<nalioth> interesting
<genii> F00Bar I'm currently testing ispconfig, seems good. We are considering some similar solution for our machines
<genii> F00BaR: Anyhow, for reference, Dapper server was setup along the lines here http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06 then a fix for ispconfig to properly install found here http://k0dy.wordpress.com/2006/08/05/ubuntu-server-606-with-ispconfig/
<F00BaR> you should intergrate a cpanel with ubuntu :)
<genii> F00BaR: I don't have enough time to devot to being a package maintainer unfortunately :(
<F00BaR> omfg, vhcs didnt install
<genii> I do think it's a good idea tho for the LAMP install to have one as standard
<F00BaR> nvm
<F00BaR> ispconfig good yeah?
<genii> F00BaR: The demo is here for ispconfig: http://www.ispconfig.org/demo.htm  so you can see how it looks/operates
<genii> F00BaR: I have not yet installed gnupanel to evaluate, but there are 3 demos here for you to look at : http://www.gnupanel.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=35
<genii> nalioth I suspect you checked out the demos... any input?
<nalioth> genii: i don't run a web server for money
<genii> nalioth: I work at a nonprofit ISP here in Toronto
<nalioth> i don't work for an ISP at all
<genii> If you had some webhosting arrangement with an isp would there be some cpanel preferences? (trying to get an idea of what interfaces ppl like/dislike)
<nalioth> i have dreamhost
<nalioth> there is some kind of web interface
<genii> hmm
<F00BaR> hey
<F00BaR> talk here
<F00BaR> i did ./setup in ispconfig
<F00BaR> its in another language
<genii> F00Bar Yes, Go to Tools-> Change Language
<genii> In the interface
<F00BaR> huh?
<F00BaR> my linux is in english
<F00BaR> just the setup isnt
<F00BaR> its asking to chose language
<F00BaR> i typed en, then english
<F00BaR> none worked
<genii> Thats weird, I don't remember having to specify during the initial setup of it. Afterwards it was in spanish I think, logged into the interface and changed language in the interface from there.
<F00BaR> want a screenshot
<genii> F00BaR: The machine i have it running on right now is down for hardware maintenance
<F00BaR> i mean
<F00BaR> ill send you a screenshot
<genii> F00BaR Yeah that may help
<genii> Just post it to imageshack and give the url here
<F00BaR> im trying
<F00BaR> problem with insternet atm
<F00BaR> sec
<genii> OK
<F00BaR> http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8987/untitledyp0.jpg
<genii> looking
<genii> F00BaR: just putting   en   didn't work??
<F00BaR> nope
<F00BaR> nvm
<genii> put  2   then
<F00BaR> didnt see the number at the side
<F00BaR> :)
<genii> I remeber the screen now that I see it
<F00BaR> lol
* F00BaR is dumb today :(
<genii> Thats OK :) I'm tired too
<F00BaR> error: quota not found!
<F00BaR> whats that
<genii> quota is a program on servers to limit/monitor ppl's hd usage and so on
<F00BaR> sudo apt-get install quota?
<genii> You may not have it installed
<genii> I think thats the package
<F00BaR> ty
<F00BaR> ok i did that and it tried to setup vhcs :/
<F00BaR> nvm
<F00BaR> Error: flex not found
<F00BaR> whats that
<genii> I Yeah that was on the fix link I gave a while back
<F00BaR> sudo apt-get install flex
<F00BaR> i did that
<genii> two x like flexx
<genii> (I think)
<F00BaR> i did it with 1 x
<genii> bleh, need coffee :)
<F00BaR> it worked
<F00BaR> anything else i should install
<F00BaR> major things like mysql?
<genii> Not that comes to mind offhand
<F00BaR> ok
<genii> You could do mysql yeah
<genii> Or any other server type services you like
<genii> I already had a LAMP install so all that was on al;ready
<F00BaR> i got it
<F00BaR> i meant anything else
<genii> I set it up to use postgre otherwise nothing comes to mind. The same box I have that stuff on I also have some other testing things like phprojekt and horde so needed a lot of php pear and so on  for that.
<F00BaR> k
<F00BaR> how long does it usually take?
<F00BaR> setup
<F00BaR> ok
<F00BaR> i have to go
<F00BaR> thank you for the help
<genii> Not hours anyhow LOL...lag...OK, have a good one
<F00BaR> you too
<soundray> People who come to ubuntu from another distribution are used to do things while logged in as root, right?
<soundray> slacker_nl: ^
<slacker_nl> yes, at least I'm used to su/ssu/sudo
<soundray> So, if they run a command like date >example, they expect example to end up in /root/
<slacker_nl> depends
<slacker_nl> su -m uses my shell and enviroment
<slacker_nl> so I'm used to put things in my $HOME and/or put it in tmp
<soundray> Okay, but let's think of that poor person you were talking to earlier, robe or whatever his nick was.
<soundray> Comes to #ubuntu and says "Hey, how am I supposed to do things as root when the account is locked?"
<slacker_nl> soundray: if he's used to su or ssu you could assume he knows a thing or two
<soundray> slacker_nl: but we can't assume that, can we?
<slacker_nl> you have a point - but that does not mean I cannot tell him what you can do as well to become root
<soundray> You can tell him whatever you want to, but if I consider that advice to be flawed, I will continue to ask you not to suggest or recommend it.
<soundray> Given that there's a safer alternative.
<slacker_nl> because you think its flawed you don't recommend it, but you don't have to tell me not to give my opinion about the matter
<soundray> I'm not assuming any authority over what you say or don't say. Hence I use the words 'please don't'.
<soundray> I see you have a different attitude, saying "I'm not a babysitter"
<soundray> I take a slightly different approach and worry about what ubuntu beginners do to their systems.
<soundray> Because I know they'll be back saying things like "I've accidentally deleted my home directory as root -- how can I recover it"
<soundray> ;)
<slacker_nl> soundray: everyone makes a mistake (which is dumb and maybe could have been avoided)
<slacker_nl> but, Ubuntu users should also read the docs and not blindly follow what others are saying
<slacker_nl> and do some homework before playing with the root account
<soundray> slacker_nl: I agree with that. But if someone naive, lazy and gullible turns up and asks about such things, I don't want to be the one who's suggested a command with unpredictable side effects.
<soundray> Now, I want you to feel free to think differently about that.
<slacker_nl> ok, at first you gave me the impression you didn't want me to think differently
<soundray> Just because I'm asking you not to do something doesn't mean I won't *allow* you to do it.
<soundray> I don't assume that kind of authority.
<soundray> Okay, I guess we've sorted that then ;)
<slacker_nl> hehe
<slacker_nl> I guess we did
<slacker_nl> maybe the root/sudo story should be in red bold letters the first time you boot ubuntu
<soundray> Hey, now you have babysitter aspirations ;)
<slacker_nl> so ppl will read it
<slacker_nl> nah, I don't
<slacker_nl> with babysitting I mean - I'm not always going to tell them every side effect something has - they need to read the man pages and wiki's as well
<slacker_nl> but a big warning would make ppl think twice before enabling the root account
<slacker_nl> or should
<slacker_nl> but I will see you later
<slacker_nl> really need to get some work done
<soundray> It might also *make* them do something that isn't recommended, just because "it's my system and I will bl**dy do what I want with it"...
<soundray> okay
<soundray> me too
<soundray> tot ziens
<slacker_nl> tot ziens
<slacker_nl> you dutch speaking?
<soundray> No, German
<slacker_nl> OK, auf wiedersehen
<soundray> :)
<soundray> Ciao
<slacker_nl> Adios :)
<f00bar> hey
<genii> hi
<f00bar> i get this error:
<f00bar> ERROR: The PHP binary coming with ISPConfig does not work properly on your system! The installation routine stops here!
<genii> Yes, I saw! This i have not seen before
<f00bar> :(
<genii> Let me research for a minute
<f00bar> is there a command to update PHP or something?
<f00bar> ok
<f00bar> found anything?
<genii> f00bar: Yes, it looks like it prefers php4 to php5
<f00bar> how do i downgrade
<genii> f00bar: I'll give you some commands in  minute :)
<f00bar> hold
<f00bar> i have to go
<f00bar> can you email to toxic.waste@hotmail.co.uk please
<genii> :( OK IO wil be here tomorrow
<f00bar> thanks. Good evening
<genii> nite
<nalioth> !bing
<ubotu> bing: Empirical stochastic bandwidth tester. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.3-1 (edgy), package size 26 kB, installed size 92 kB
<nalioth> !search bing
<ubotu> Found:
<nalioth> clever are you human?
<clever> yes
<clever> saying my name causes half the computers in my house to beep:P
<clever> nalioth: are you human?:P
<nalioth> clever: you are exhibiting automated responses that are unwelcome
<clever> i can disable it
<clever> the !search?
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-14
<nalioth> please :)
* clever edits
<clever> master code file edited
<clever> autoupdate will bring it here within 15-30mins
<PriceChild> !search foo
<ubotu> Found: foo-#ubuntu+1, foo2-#ubuntu-ops, foobar123*, bar, foo2-also*, ops-#kubuntu, foo
<PriceChild> !help
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<jrib> Jetfighter: hi
<Jetfighter> Hi
<Jetfighter> I installed the sun-java6-bin package, the java applet not working still
<jrib> apt-cache policy sun-java6-plugin
<jrib> !pastebin | Jetfighter
<ubotu> Jetfighter: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Jetfighter> ?
<jrib> tell me the output of this command: apt-cache policy sun-java6-plugin
<Jetfighter> Not here?
<jrib> nah, use pastebin
<Jetfighter> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10310/
<jrib> Jetfighter: install the sun-java6-plugin package
<Jetfighter> Ok
<jrib> restart firefox, try your game
<Jetfighter> Sheet?
<Jetfighter> I got the applet manager thing
<jrib> Jetfighter: can you be more specific?
<Jetfighter> Tingy that uses gij to run applets?
<Jetfighter> It works, thanks a tonne
<jrib> k, np
<Jetfighter> I forgot account name, does GAIM enable logging automatically?
<jrib> I don't believe so
<f00bar> GENII
<f00bar> here?
<DeadNotBuried> anyone here
<^Veruxka^> Se ha solicitado una sesin de mensajera musical. Por favor, seleccione el icono de MM para aceptarla.
<sfhsfj> hey
<fnf> sfhsfj: you installed vncserver ?
<sfhsfj> vncserver is already the newest version.
<sfhsfj> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
<sfhsfj> bind9 php4 awstats php4-gd php4-mysql libt1-5 libnet-ip-perl libnet-dns-perl
<sfhsfj> libgd2-xpm libdigest-hmac-perl libdigest-sha1-perl
<sfhsfj> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
<sfhsfj> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
<sfhsfj> root@WNDR:~#
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> how do i start it
<fnf> sfhsfj: I don't have vncserver installed right now so I don't know for sure what the parameters are, 'man vncserver'
<sfhsfj> i did vncserver
<sfhsfj> but it opens a new desktop
<sfhsfj> i wanna see my actual desktop
<sfhsfj> so i can login
<fnf> sfhsfj: ok, here are the things.
<fnf> the X server can be started in multiple display, in desktop sessions there's usually only one in display 0
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> so
<sfhsfj> how can i do it
<fnf> when you issue vncserver, you specify what display it should be active, by default it's 0
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> so i can remote login
<sfhsfj> view it after it booted up, login and see my desktop
<fnf> if you start vncserver in an existing GNOME session, starting vncserver would connect it to your sessio
<fnf> ...so others login through VNC can immediately see your desktop
<sfhsfj> i want to open GNOME session remotely
<sfhsfj> i need it to open up before gnome
<fnf> aye
<sfhsfj> so they can login
<fnf> alright
<fnf> first, you need to ssh into the server.
<sfhsfj> yes
<sfhsfj> done
<fnf> issue a 'vncserver' command there (in the ssh session) with necessary params
<sfhsfj> ok
<fnf> it should say a VNC session is activated in some display
<sfhsfj> 5452 pts/0 S 0:00 Xtightvnc :1 -desktop X -lf 1024 -auth /root/.Xauthor
<fnf> alright, so it's display #1
<sfhsfj> ok
<fnf> then login to the server again with a VNC client
<sfhsfj> it says connection refused
<fnf> yeah, because display :0 is the default, your's is #1, so you must specify the display
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> serverip:5901?
<fnf> yeah
<sfhsfj> connection times out
<fnf> sorry
<fnf> it should be vncviewer host:display
<sfhsfj> so
<sfhsfj> eg
<fnf> vncserver [servername] :1
<fnf> or server IP
<sfhsfj> im logging in not off network btw
<sfhsfj> can i run it on port 5900
<sfhsfj> ?
<fnf> that's alright, localhost is 127.0.0.1 or you can specify localhost
<sfhsfj> hmm
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> can you help me with something else?
<fnf> go ahead
<sfhsfj> ISPconfig
<sfhsfj> trying to install and get error
<sfhsfj> it doesnt like php5
<sfhsfj> can i downgrade via ssh to php4
<fnf> ispconfig ? no such package in the package tree
<sfhsfj> its a control panel
<sfhsfj> http://ispconfig.com/
<sfhsfj> root@WNDR:~# Xvnc
<sfhsfj> Fatal server error:
<fnf> an ssh session is not different from usual console session, you can do just about anything there
<sfhsfj> Server is already active for display 0
<sfhsfj> If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.X0-lock
<sfhsfj> and start again.
<sfhsfj> root@WNDR:~#
<sfhsfj> Xvnc is what i want
<sfhsfj> how do i sort that error
<fnf> xvnc requires a running X session, you have to call it within X
<sfhsfj> Fatal server error:
<sfhsfj> Couldn't add screen
<sfhsfj> root@WNDR:~#
<sfhsfj> can i make it login to GNOME
<sfhsfj> from here
<fnf> VNC is different from usual GNOME login session
<fnf> you don't use GDM with VNC
<fnf> when you login through VNC, you already opened a new X session
<fnf> what apps should be started depends on your configuration
<fnf> which is located under ~/.vnc/xstartup
<sfhsfj> you know the ubuntu login screen at first boot
<fnf> no
<sfhsfj> it asks for user
<sfhsfj> then pass
<fnf> that's the GNOME Display Manager, you don't need it to login
<fnf> alright
<fnf> put it this way
<sfhsfj> i wanna see that
<sfhsfj> be able to login that way
<fnf> without GDM, you can still start X
<sfhsfj> how
<fnf> by isussing 'startx' at the console
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> now i can see it?
<fnf> see what ?
<sfhsfj> hmm
<fnf> GDM is /not/ needed to start an X session
<fnf> it's just a way to manage user logins.
<fnf> if you login to the console
<fnf> then do a startx, it will bring up X server with your usual GNOME session
<sfhsfj> ok
<fnf> so...
<fnf> to start a GNOME session or any app in VNC, you need to put them into .vnc/xstartup
<fnf> if the file is empty, a VNC session is still made, but there's no app started, no even a terminal
<fnf> you may put 'gnome-session &' there
<fnf> the man pages say it all ;) try 'man vncserver'
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> so if i edit .vnc/xstartup now in ssh
<sfhsfj> and enter 'gnome-session &'
<sfhsfj> then reboot
<sfhsfj> i can login?
<fnf> reboot the VNC session, no need to reboot ssh
<fnf> kill the existing VNC session, modify the file with gnome-session put in there, then start a new VNC session again
<sfhsfj> i just rebooted server anyway
<fnf> when you input the password for VNC, you already logged in
<fnf> there will be no GDM login screen anymore.
<fnf> kinda complicated I admit, but it's not if you're a console user.
<fnf> vncviewer and vncserver and meant to be operated in console, usually through ssh.
<sfhsfj> ok
<sfhsfj> i rebooted after adding what you said
<sfhsfj> then did vncserver
<sfhsfj> i cant login still
<fnf> what did the vnc client say ?
<sfhsfj> connection refused
<sfhsfj> try it
<Smoke2k> e cd
<Smoke2k> ok cool
<Smoke2k> could someone help me its not partitioning my external right
<Smoke2k> ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-powerpc doesn't seem to partition it right or accept the partitions i set for it
<Smoke2k> i wish i had live cd but made mistake and got alternate
<Smoke2k> i want to use gparted
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-15
<soundray> Hi `Lucas
<`Lucas> Hi!
<soundray> Shoot
<`Lucas> soundray, so what can I do?
<`Lucas> Here is the error that I get: http://rcbsports.com/myspace/165923681285_3300_1.jpg
<soundray> `Lucas: what I told you. See if you can run memtest86, it's on the boot menu
<`Lucas> Ohh, ok.
<`Lucas> I missed that.
<`Lucas> Its running right now!
<`Lucas> Does it end, or does it keep on going?
<soundray> `Lucas: it keeps going. It's best to run it for a few hours at least
<phewl> Lol
<`Lucas> Ahh! :(
<`Lucas> Ohh well.
<soundray> `Lucas: anless it reports errors, in which case you can stop and replace your RAM ;)
<`Lucas> Would it mean it has a red background?
<`Lucas> b/c it ran and it has a red background.
<soundray> `Lucas: I'm used to it having a blue background, so it could mean something. But it's best if you read what it says! ;)
<phewl> =] 
<`Lucas> How would I know if it has an error?
<soundray> `Lucas: it says somewhere on the screen how many errors it has found and what kind.
<`Lucas> So: http://rcbsports.com/myspace/165926224517_290_1.jpg
<`Lucas> So the pic above is a bad thing isn't it?
<soundray> `Lucas: depends on how you frame the experience :)
<soundray> `Lucas: at least you can be pretty sure that your boot problems are due to faulty RAM
<`Lucas> So basically my computer is a peice of crap?
<phewl> no
<phewl> basically your ram is crap
<phewl> :)
<`Lucas> Well, how much does ram normally cost?
<soundray> `Lucas: RAM doesn't cost much any more. Just make sure you get the right kind, and go for 512MB or more
<`Lucas> I haven't been hardware shopping for a long time.
<`Lucas> Alright, cool.
<soundray> `Lucas: where are you located?
<`Lucas> West Virginia, in the United States.
<`Lucas> East Coast
<soundray> `Lucas: yeah, I know my US geography ;)
<soundray> `Lucas: don't know any local RAM retailers, though.
<`Lucas> I am an IT-Tech intern for the Board of Education, but I haven't worked with linux before, except when I had my IRCd shell.
<`Lucas> Ahh, I know Wal-Mart has a few.
<soundray> I had a good experience with Mushkin once, don't know if they're still around
<`Lucas> Basically this is my old work computer from the field house. (I am the head sports mananger for my school) so I got a new computer and thought I would give something new a try.
<`Lucas> So what is the difference between this and Fedora?
<`Lucas> I tried Fedora, but it wouldn't install either.
<soundray> `Lucas: any Linux version will fail on faulty RAM -- in fact any OS will
<`Lucas> I know that now!
<`Lucas> :P
<`Lucas> But I am sorta mad, b/c I don't have windows on there either.
<`Lucas> So right now, its useless to me!
<soundray> Fedora doesn't have the slick, well-designed package management, which is enough for me not to try it.
<`Lucas> lol
<soundray> I had a predecessor once, RedHat 4.1
<soundray> Soon switched to Debian and was much happier.
<`Lucas> Well, I never heard of any other os besides windows and mac until about three years ago.
<`Lucas> R u using Debian now?
<soundray> `Lucas: yes, on my teevee (vdr personal video recorder)
<`Lucas> Ohh, then how did you get involved with ubuntu?
<soundray> But all the rest is ubuntu. Have switched all my family as well: Wife, son, mum, dad, brother...
<`Lucas> Ahh.
<`Lucas> Is it possible to run ubuntu on a laptop with good performance?
<soundray> Yes, of course, why not?
<`Lucas> Well, first I have to order a new disk drive for my laptop, I stepped on my last one and broke the lid.
<soundray> Oh no!
<`Lucas> Then I tripped over my wireless usb reciever and broke my second laptop, which only had one usb port.
<`Lucas> so now I am laptopless.
<`Lucas> What I normally do is take old computers and make then like new.
<`Lucas> Add all new hardware, software, etc.
<soundray> Sounds like you should re-think your office organization in terms of spatial arrangements
<`Lucas> Ohh, that wasn't at the office, thats me on my free time at home.
<soundray> You'll love ubuntu, because you rarely have to go beyond what's in the official software repositories
<`Lucas> But I never had any troubles in the past booting stuff up.
<soundray> My guess is you won't, once you've got good RAM
<`Lucas> Well, I am new to linux, which I  was sorta rethinking about it, but I am going to take a chance and go for it.
<soundray> Just try a Desktop CD on your work machine. It's a bit slow to launch things from CD, but it gives you an impression without having to touch existing Windows or other installations
<`Lucas> Yeah, this computer that I remixed (thats the term I use for fixing computers) isn't bad except that.  I ran out of time to go and get ram, but it has everything except a new Processor, which I normally don't touch.
<`Lucas> Yeah, thats the only thing I am scared about.  So if I do that on the computer now, it wont mess anything up?
<soundray> No, the Desktop CD is a full-blown system that runs without modifying anything.
<`Lucas> Now does it install anything?
<soundray> Ubuntu in general is very good about telling you when you're about to make a permanent change.
<soundray> Only when you double-click the installer icon and go through the setup.
<`Lucas> So how does the live cd go?  I put it in boot it up and then what?
<soundray> It shows a desktop with icons, panels, task lists -- not too far from what you're used to in Windows.
<`Lucas> So then if I wanted to make it perment, how would I do that.
<soundray> `Lucas: actually the one that you have won't -- it's an Alternate install CD
<soundray> !alternate
<ubotu> The Alternate CD (available as of Dapper) is the classical text-mode installation CD. Use it if you wish to upgrade via CD, or for an "expert" mode install. For normal installs, use the Desktop CD, which is also a "Live" CD.
<`Lucas> I have both of them.
<soundray> `Lucas: you'd run the installer
<`Lucas> Alright, I am going to give it a try!
<soundray> It will guide you through the setup, including partitioning
<`Lucas> BBS, I hope!
<soundray> just one more pointer:
<soundray> !faq
<ubotu> faq is http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions Official documentation is at http://help.ubuntu.com IRC FAQ: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCResourcePage
<soundray> -- excellent places to start if you have trouble
<`Lucas> Ahh, cool, thanks.
<`Lucas> I shall give this a try.
<`Lucas> See you soon!
<soundray> I'm off -- hope to see you around.
<soundray> Good luck
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-16
<nalioth> jrib: c'mon and bring him here to share the bad news . .  .
<kraypius> hel
<kraypius> o
<jrib> when you say "web dev", does that mean /var/www?
<kraypius> no, its a fat32 partition i made so i can edit my web sites on both win and ubuntu
<kraypius>  /media/SHARE
<kraypius> /dev/sda4
<nalioth> kraypius: fat32 doesn't respond to chmod
<jrib> kraypius: ah ok, in this case we just need to make sure that partition gets mounted with proper permissions.  Can you paste the relevant line from your /etc/fstab?
<nalioth> kraypius: please don't ever chmod -R your linux directories
<kraypius> /dev/sda4 /media/SHARE vfat rw,umask=000 0 0
<kraypius> all other folders in /media/share are fine
<kraypius> but /media/share/webs is locked for writing
<jrib> that should be working.  Try unmounting and mounting it again with this command:  sudo umount /dev/sda4 && sudo mount /dev/sda4
<kraypius> device is busy
<kraypius> dont know why it would be busy
<kraypius> nm there it goes
<kraypius> okay its fine now
<kraypius> so my chmod didnt bork anything up?
<jrib> kraypius: nope, fat32 doesn't actually store any permission info
<kraypius> k
<jrib> why not use ext3 btw?
<kraypius> because windows needs to play nice
<nalioth> jrib: shared drive? vestigial windows storage partition?
<jrib> kraypius: you can read and write to ext3 in windows using fs-driver.org if you are interested
<kraypius> cool
<nalioth> i would not trust it
<kjempe> seems more quiet here
<jrib> yes
<jrib> where did you get this script btw?
<kjempe> the script worked well and was delivered with a remova-script
<kjempe> then i tried a different howto
<kjempe> the removal-instructions that wrecked my firefox were these: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion#head-51054869b8a40ea50859b0163c806e76f882499c
<jrib> you still have diversions
<kjempe> yes
<jrib> but part of the removal process there is to remove diversions
<kjempe> i then tried to reinstall firefox by synaptic, which didn't work
<kjempe> oh, sorry i misunderstood diversions
<jrib> kjempe: what is the output of this command:  dpkg-divert --list '*firefox*'
<kjempe> i have no firefox-diversions whatsoever in my /usr/bin
<kjempe> local diversion of /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu to /usr/bin/firefox
<kjempe> neither exist
<jrib> because you deleted the files, you shouldn't do that.  The package manager knows nothing about what you do with rm
<kjempe> yes, i was afraid that'd be by mistake
<jrib> do this:  sudo dpkg-divert --remove /usr/bin/firefox
<jrib> any errors?
<kjempe> No diversion `any diversion of /usr/bin/firefox', none removed
<jrib> kjempe: sudo touch /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu
<kjempe> still nothing
<jrib> now try sudo dpkg-divert --remove /usr/bin/firefox
<kjempe> same output
<jrib> ok lets try: sudo touch /usr/bin/firefox
<jrib> and then... sudo dpkg-divert --remove /usr/bin/firefox
<kjempe> maybe i oughta touche /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu and the diversion /usr/bin/firefox
<jrib> right, I was just curious about how it worked so I wanted to do it step by step :)
<kjempe> ok
<kjempe> last step still gives the same output
<jrib> gives error?
<jrib> erm
<kjempe> no
<kjempe> just No diversion `any diversion of /usr/bin/firefox', none removed
<jrib> hmm, what about sudo dpkg-divert --remove /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu
<kjempe> ok
<jrib> that worked?
<kjempe> i touched /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu and did sudo ln /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu /usr/bin/firefox
<kjempe> now i'll try the sudo dpkg-divert thing
<kjempe> output: No diversion `any diversion of /usr/bin/firefox', none removed
<kjempe> aaah
<kjempe> Removing `local diversion of /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu to /usr/bin/firefox'
<kjempe> yes....
<kjempe> thanks a whole bunch of lots!
<jrib> ok
<kjempe> it worked!
<kjempe> great
<kjempe> i'll keep from fiddling with those files from now on, i guess
<jrib> kjempe: get rid of the /usr/bin/firefox and /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu now
<jrib> since they are empty
<kjempe> /usr/bin/firefox starts firefox 2.0 now
<kjempe> weird
<kjempe> man, this is what i love about linux
<jrib> you've lost me, did you do something after we removed the diversion?
<kjempe> i did the following
<kjempe> i touched /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu and created the diversion /usr/bin/firefox
<kjempe> then i did sudo dpkg-divert --remove /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu
<kjempe> and finally sudo apt-get install -f
<jrib> ah ok
<jrib> kjempe: but are you on dapper or edgy?
<kjempe> dapper
<kjempe> waiting for feisty
<jrib> strange, i thought dapper didn't have firefox 2.0
<jrib> !info firefox dapper
<ubotu> firefox: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.10-0ubuntu0.6.06.2 (dapper), package size 7761 kB, installed size 22992 kB
<kjempe> it doesn't
<kjempe> that's why i messed around with the .tar-gz from mozilla
<jrib> but how is /usr/bin/firefox starting 2.0?
<kjempe> i did create a diversion from /opt/firefox/firefox to /usr/bin/firefox but that was before all the trouble started
<jrib> ok well as long as you understand and have it working I guess
<kjempe> at least i got it working, understanding is a bit tricky
<kjempe> /usr/lib/firefox/firefox starts firefox 2.0 as well, which is weird
<jrib> kjempe: dpkg -S /usr/lib/firefox/firefox
<kjempe> what does it do?
<jrib> that will tell you what package owns that file
<kjempe> firefox
<jrib> apt-cache policy firefox
<kjempe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10601/
<jrib> ok maybe dapper just incorporates 2.0 updates and calls it 2.0, that's just my guess
<kjempe> hm
<kjempe> i dunno
<kjempe> now i'll have to redo all the plugins and stuff
<jrib> yeah
<kjempe> damn
<jrib> your extensions should still be there though
<kjempe> yes
<kjempe> they are
<kjempe> god
<kjempe> but at least the browser is working again
<kjempe> thanks again
<kjempe> where are you from btw?
<jrib> US
<kjempe> ah, ok
<kjempe> i'll start setting firefox up now
<kjempe> thanks for the help and good bye!
<jrib> bye
<kraypius> is there a device manager that can enable/disable devices?
<kraypius> or better yet how do you disable a device?
<kraypius> i need to disable my touch pad
<jrib> kraypius: #ubuntu is a better place to get help.  There usually isn't anyone active in this room
<jrib> kraypius: you can try 'synclient'
<kraypius> what about xorg.conf?
<F00> hey StoneNote
<StoneNote> hey F00
<F00> have you ever used VHCS
<StoneNote> no
<F00> hmm
<F00> if i give you access
<F00> can you install ispconfig
<F00> with all these package things
<StoneNote> no brother, I can't. I'm just answering a few question in the other channel in between compiles. good luck.  you should paste the whole long error you are getting when you try to compile into pastebin and then ask for help. you're not giving enough information to diagnose the specific problem
<jrib> a1a121: hi
<a1a121> hey
<jrib> what is the output of this command: mount
<a1a121> look all i need is to copy some files on my desktop to my windows partition (im on livecd)
<a1a121> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10621/
<jrib> a1a121: yes, but I want to understand why /media is in its current state
<a1a121> this is the output
<jrib> a1a121: don't mount to /media, mount to a subdirectory of /media
<jrib> after you do that, then we can set the proper permissions
<a1a121> i know, it was my mistake :p
<jrib> a1a121: how did you mount it?  Did you use a 'mount' command or just a line in /etc/fstab?
<a1a121> a mount command
<a1a121> i umounted it now
<jrib> a1a121: ok, is there anything in /media now?
<a1a121> i can list it
<a1a121> cypher1 is helping me @ #ubuntu
<jrib> so you have stuff like cdrom, floppy, etc?
<a1a121> nah
<a1a121> only my windows partition mounted in /media
<jrib> you should unmount it and do it properly in a subdirectory of /media, then you can use ntfs-3g to write.  But mount it properly first
<jrib> !ntfs3g
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ntfs3g - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jrib> !ntfs-3g
<ubotu> ntfs-3g is is a Linux driver which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. It has been extensively tested but please remember to keep backups of critical data. Installation instructions at http://lunapark6.com/?p=1710 (Dapper) and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217009/ (Edgy)
<a1a121> can i install it on livecd?
<jrib> a1a121: you should be able to.  But if you just want a livecd to write to ntfs, I'm sure you can find a livecd that does that ootb
<a1a121> bash: deb: command not found
<a1a121> i get this
<jrib> read what it says, don't just copy commands
<a1a121> jrib: i just installed ntfs-3g, how do i move something from my desktop to my win partition?
<jrib> a1a121: please don't double post questions, that's annoying
<a1a121> jrib: im just trying to get an answer asap
<jrib> so is everyone else
<a1a121> when i do cp
<a1a121> i get this
<jrib> it doesn't help if you ask the same question in two channels
<a1a121> cp: cannot create regular file `/media/RTL1xxx_1.02.pkg.zip': Read-only file system
<jrib> then two people try to help you instead of helping someone else
<jrib> a1a121: I've never used ntfs-3g, #ubuntu is your best bet
<a1a121> okay thanks
<F00> hey. Thanks
<foutrelis> :)
<F00> Setting up libapache2-mod-php5 (5.1.6-1ubuntu2.3) ...
<F00> root@WNDR:~/tmp/vhcs2.2/configs#
<F00> done that too
<foutrelis> F00: Could you please restart apache one more time?
<foutrelis> F00: sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart
<F00> ok
<F00> done it said [K] 
<F00> done it said [OK] 
<foutrelis> lets try [sudo a2enmod php5]  too
<F00> root@WNDR:~# sudo a2enmod php5
<F00> Module php5 installed; run /etc/init.d/apache2 force-reload to enable.
<F00> root@WNDR:~#
<foutrelis> and restart apache once more :)
<F00> [OK] 
<F00> huh
<foutrelis> sudo a2enmod php5
<F00> wtf
<foutrelis> wrong paste.
<F00> root@WNDR:~# sudo a2enmod php5
<F00> This module is already enabled!
<F00> root@WNDR:~#
<foutrelis> sorry about that. wrong paste :)
<F00> np
<foutrelis> well php5 is enabled but it wasn't autoconfigured. :\
<foutrelis> give me a minute
<F00> foutrelis, i just noticed... /var/www/phpmyadmin is a shortcut to /usr/share/phpmyadmin
<F00> is that right?
<foutrelis> yes
<F00> ok
<foutrelis> just give me 2 minutes to find what conf file we need to edit :)
<F00> ok
<F00> thanks
<foutrelis> cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
<foutrelis> cat php5.conf | grep php
<foutrelis> what's its output?
<F00> root@WNDR:/etc/apache2/mods-enabled# cat php5.conf | grep php
<F00> cat: php5.conf: No such file or directory
<F00> root@WNDR:/etc/apache2/mods-enabled#
<foutrelis> hmm
<foutrelis> cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
<foutrelis> sudo wget http://foutrelis.ath.cx/~foutrelis/php5.conf
<foutrelis> sudo wget http://foutrelis.ath.cx/~foutrelis/php5.load
<foutrelis> and then restart apache
<foutrelis> I hope it works :)
<F00> root@WNDR:/etc/apache2/mods-enabled# /etc/init.d/apache2 restart * Forcing reload of apache 2.0 web server... Syntax error on line 1 of /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.load:
<F00> Cannot load /usr/lib/apache2/modules/libphp5.so into server: /usr/lib/apache2/modules/libphp5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<F00> [fail] 
<F00> root@WNDR:/etc/apache2/mods-enabled#
<foutrelis> :\
<foutrelis> could you give me your root's password in private so I can login via ssh?
<phewl> teach me something :)
* F0O teaches phewl to ask in #ubuntu
<phewl> aw :(
<jrib> phewl: a^p = a mod p
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o LjL]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+b *!*@82-42-56-84.cable.ubr06.knor.blueyonder.co.uk]  by LjL
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o LjL]  by LjL
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-17
<jrib> beast_: result of this command:
<jrib> apt-cache policy sun-java6-jre
<beast_> i'm going to just post the result
<beast_> 
<beast_> sun-java6-jre:
<beast_>   Installed: 6-00-0ubuntu1~dapper1
<beast_>   Candidate: 6-00-0ubuntu1~dapper1
<beast_>   Version table:
<beast_>  *** 6-00-0ubuntu1~dapper1 0
<beast_>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper-backports/multiverse Packages
<beast_>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<jrib> ok, please don't do that
<beast_> i tryed pastebin
<jrib> and?
<beast_> how do i get it to show up in the chat room
<beast_> i hit past it and it just showed up on top
<jrib> you copy the url and paste it here
<beast_> oh ok
<beast_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10690/
<beast_> like that?
<jrib> yes
<jrib> ok, that should give you java... what does this do:  ls /usr/bin/java
<beast_> it returns /usr/bin/java
<beast_> in red
<jrib> beast_: sudo update-alternatives --config java
<jrib> choose the one that says "sun" somewhere
<beast_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10692/
<jrib> ok, now try: java -version
<beast_> jrib: thank you so much
<beast_> but hold on 1 sec
<beast_> let me see if eclipse works
<jrib> ok but be forewarned I don't use eclipse so I can't really help
<beast_> would it be alright to get it from synaptic?
<jrib> beast_: yes, that's the best way
<beast_> jrib: when i try to open eclipse i get this error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10693/
<jrib> beast_: maybe you need sun-java6-jdk as well.  #ubuntu will be more helpful
<beast_> but i downloaded it
<nalioth> less static here, bruenig
<lisapc> nalioth, yes? :)
<nalioth> lisapc: have you considered renaming your ~/maria/.azureus to .azureus-old and trying again?
<bruenig> I had that once with azureus when I used it, I just chown a+w everything and it worked
<lisapc> well this is weird indeed
<lisapc> can I run azuers as root always?
<lisapc> it works when I type sudo ./azuerus
<lisapc> or is that security risk?
<bruenig> lisapc, ./azureus?
<bruenig> ./azureus as in that is what you are running to launch azureus
<lisapc> bruenig, thats how I start it
<bruenig> you have represented that is being a directory
<bruenig> s/is/as/
<lisapc> when I start it, i type ./azureus from the folder I moved it to
<lisapc> i type ./azureus  from /home/maria/stuff/azuerus folder
<bruenig> lisapc, oh ok
<lisapc> there is another way to start it?
<nalioth> lisapc: i would not run ANYthing as superuser that you use as a user
<lisapc> nalioth, so whats myu solution?
<bruenig> lisapc, well all the permissions are enabled on everything in that folder right now, I don't know if it is an azureus problem or what but it really shouldn't matter
<bruenig> sudo or not
<lisapc> ok
<nalioth> i suspect your azurerus got started using sudo and has given all it touched 'superuser' ownership
<lisapc> just means i cant update or add plugins
<lisapc> nalioth,  maybe
<lisapc> any fix?
<nalioth> lisapc: can you move your .azureus to .azureus-old and try it?
<lisapc> nalioth,  ok brb
<bruenig> lisapc, when I installed it, I put it in /opt and everything that happened happened in that directory, there was no .azureus directory IIRC
<nalioth> and please don't run programs like azuereus using 'sudo'
<lisapc> nalioth, I did at beginning out of ignorance
<lisapc> have I been comprmised now?
<lisapc> i been using it starting it as sudo
<bruenig> lisapc, it isn't going to open you up to any attacks if that is what you are thinking
<lisapc> has my system been infilatrated now?
<lisapc> ok
<nalioth> lisapc: it's just not a good practice at all to run userspace programs with sudo
<nalioth> there are only a few programs that require superuser access, and those are for system maintenance, usually
<lisapc> nalioth, that didnt help!  but I have noticed azuerus is not trying to write to that new folder I moved it to
<nalioth> what i'm getting at is, if you have to start something with sudo just to make it go, something is probably wrong.
<lisapc> nalioth, its trying to write to: /home/maria/.azuerus/plugins/
<bruenig> lisapc, it isn't supposed to, it is supposed to create a new one
<nalioth> you moved the azurues jar file?
<lisapc> nalioth, notice, its different
<lisapc> nalioth, I moved tghe wgole thing
<lisapc> .azuerus folder is the problem
<lisapc> not the folder when azuerus is
<nalioth> you chanded it to .azureus-old, right?
<lisapc> u mean to change that folder?
<lisapc> brb
<nalioth> lisapc: yes, rename your /home/maria/.azureus to /home/maria/.azureus-old or .azzureus-bak or something
<lisapc> ok
<lisapc> i created .azureus-old
<nalioth> then when you restart azureus, it should create a whole new .azureus
<lisapc> and moves evetrything from .azurues to that
<lisapc> nalioth, ill try to load azur now
<nalioth> no no no
<nalioth> don't move anything
<lisapc> nalioth, ok that fixed it :-)
<lisapc> nalioth,  thanks a lot :)
<lisapc> nalioth, all I had to do was delete .azureus and then load azureus as normal and it gave me setup again
<nalioth> lisapc: if it requires sudo to run, something aint right. (unless it's a system maintenance tool)
<lisapc> ir created .azureus again
<nalioth> lisapc: yep
<lisapc> nalioth, it run but it lept saying pesmission denied when I updated or added plugins
<nalioth> lisapc: in fact. . .
<lisapc> kept
<nalioth> !gksudo
<ubotu> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use  gksudo , as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Avoid ever using  sudo <GUI-application> 
<nalioth> !kdesu
<ubotu> In KDE, use  kdesu  to run graphical applications with root privileges when you have to. Do *not* use  sudo <GUI application> ; you can muck up your permissions/config files. For what to use in GNOME, see !gksudo
<nalioth> running some gui things using sudo may trash your permissions in a bad way
<nalioth> as in, reassign your user permissions to the system
<lisapc> nalioth, so always use gksudo for everything? even for apt-get update?
<bruenig> nalioth, if it is all contained in the command line, use sudo, if it is a graphical application use gksudo
<nalioth> lisapc: if it's a console program, use sudo
<bruenig> s/nalioth/lisapc/
<lisapc> nalioth,  got it :) ty
<nalioth> if it's a graphical program you need to run as superuser, use gksudo or kdesu
<bruenig> or gksu
<lisapc> bruenig, ty for your last 30 mins help, i realise it was a long time to help me, thanks a lot
<bruenig> lisapc, that appears to be my role in #ubuntu, you and jetfighter
<nalioth> bruenig: i don't think we do gksu in Ubuntu
<bruenig> gksudo is a symlink to gksu
<lisapc> im very greateful for any help. i dont take it for granted
<nalioth> bruenig: repeat customers? :P
<lisapc> bruenig, heeh ;)
<nalioth> welp, i'm fixing to compile k3b 1.0 and try my hand at swfdec
<lisapc> nalioth, well it seems its broken after all!  now it says permission denied to save a file im downloading LOL
<lisapc> im removing azureus for good :P
<jrib> bruenig: It's different inside the code though, it checks how it is called
<bruenig> does it really
<nalioth> lisapc: i suspect you'll need to rename ALL the folders azureus touched before
<bruenig> I have always used them interchangably
<lisapc> nalioth,  ok
<nalioth> lisapc: when you start a program with 'sudo' everything it touches can be repermissioned
<lisapc> nalioth, yeah
<lisapc> i underastand that now
<lisapc> nalioth, so ill delete .azureus
<nalioth> lisapc: have you looked at frostwire?
<lisapc> nalioth, frostwire allows me to doanload linux torrent files?
<bruenig> frostwire and azureus are both bloated garbage imo
<nalioth> bruenig: i agree
<nalioth> lisapc: frostwire is a completely open source version of azureus
<lisapc> bruenig, but I liked azureus as it allowed me to encrypt header files.  my Australian ISP slows down torrent
<nalioth> or am i completely confused
<bruenig> I think frostwire is for limewire
<nalioth> ah yes
<bruenig> or I mean gnutella
<lisapc> and when I use the enctryption in Azur, my ISP doesnt think its a torrent file
* nalioth doesn't even know what azuereus does
<bruenig> azureus bloated java torrent client, frostwire bloated java gnutella client
<lisapc> i dont think the other clients do encryption
<bruenig> lisapc, utorrent does
<nalioth> lisapc: why not use rtorrent ?
<lisapc> does rtorrent do encryption?
<bruenig> rtorrent might be a little above him/her
<lisapc> bruenig, utorrent does?
<nalioth> lisapc: does your isp quash torrents?
<lisapc> nalioth, yeah
<nalioth> wonder how they tell . . . .
<lisapc> but when I used enrptiion on azur, it bypass it
<bruenig> packets
<lisapc> nalioth, by header files I heard
<nalioth> i've not ever had any trouble with the ISP and torrents
<lisapc> when I download linux torrent without encruption its 5kB/s and with it its 350kB/s
<lisapc> Couldn't find any package whose name or description matched "utorrent"
<bruenig> there is no official policy on blocking torrents with my ISP but I have noticed that if I go full speed for a couple of days my connection goes out for a few hours
<bruenig> lisapc, it is a windows applications
<bruenig> so you have to use wine
<lisapc> bruenig, i use Ubuntu
<lisapc> no thanks
<nalioth> libtorrent.rakshasa.no  is the URL for rtorrent
<lisapc> :P
<lisapc> brb lunch time :
<lisapc> :)
<bruenig> lisapc, I use utorrent and ubuntu
<nalioth> bruenig: why are you recommending windows stuff?
<nalioth> heretic!
<bruenig> utorrent is to be ported they say
<bruenig> but until then, it is just to good and I rely on bittorrent too much to not use it
<bruenig> since I have rss broadcatching setup for daily show and colbert report and real time with bill maher and some others
<lisapc> bruenig, does uttorrent support peerguardian?
<nalioth> i'd written my own frontend for bittorrent, but am giving rtorrent a go now
<nalioth> lisapc: all that fancy stuff in azureus is nice, but not standard
<bruenig> peerguardian seems like a joke to me
<lisapc> bruenig, why a joke?
<nalioth> lisapc: i torrent all the time with plain ol' bittorrent (and lately rtorrent) and not had any trouble at all
<lisapc> whats available for U buntu?  ktorrent and what else?
* nalioth suspects azureus to be in the snake oil business
<bruenig> lisapc, all it does is block ranges of ips that are supposed to be the ones had by movie studios and other things like that, if those studios want to get into the swarm to get your ip, do you think that they can't get on a home pc and do it, come on
<lisapc> bruenig, true
<nalioth> lisapc: rtorrent, bittorrent, bittornado, (ktorrent is a frontend to bittorrent)
<lisapc> nalioth, wghats the best?
<bruenig> deluge-torrent
<nalioth> lisapc: i wrote my own frontend to bittorrent (it is console only)
<nalioth> lisapc: the "best" one is the one YOU like best
<bruenig> !best
<ubotu> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose among a number of different applications, depending on your preferences, the features you require, and other factors.
<nalioth> but 1: i hate java
<nalioth> 2: i don't like fancy gui crap
<lisapc> nalioth, cool
<lisapc> nalioth,  ;)
<nalioth> you'll find that azureus will strangle your system within days of running
<lisapc> nalioth, so I should use ktorrent only?
<nalioth> i can run my console bittorrent for weeks (until nobody wants to leech any more) with no hit on the system
<nalioth> i'm seeing rtorrent is similarly low-requirement
<nalioth> lisapc: try them all, they're free
<lisapc> damn
<nalioth> lisapc: although i used to like bittornado-gui
<lisapc> it seems my whole system says permissson denied now
<nalioth> it's python
<nalioth> lisapc: :(
<lisapc> ever since I typed that command bruenig gave me
<lisapc> bruenig, how can I change back?
<nalioth> did you type it exactly as bruenig gave it to you?
<lisapc> yep
<lisapc> how can I stop (perimission denied) messages in my whole /home/maria ?
<bruenig> lisapc, do ls -l /home
<bruenig> who owns maria
<lisapc> i do
<lisapc> its my system
<lisapc> my name is Lisa Maria
<bruenig> then you shouldn't get permission denied
<lisapc> i didnt until 30 mins ago
<bruenig> lisapc, well my command didn't do it
<lisapc> total 4
<bruenig> my commands chowned stuff to you, and made things writable universally
<lisapc> drwxr-xr-x 43 maria maria 4096 2007-03-17 13:31 maria
<bruenig> those both add to the likelihood that you will have permission to do something
<lisapc> well i get permission denied now trying to sve a file using ktorrent
<lisapc> says i dont have permission to save the file
<nalioth> lisapc: 'where' are you trying to save it?
<lisapc> nalioth, that was the outpit
<bruenig> to / of course
<lisapc> nalioth, /home/maria/stuff
<bruenig> lisapc, who owns stuff
<lisapc> its my system
<lisapc> im only person
<bruenig> ls -l ~ | grep stuff
<lisapc> whe I right click on it
<lisapc> it says Maria
<bruenig> then you should be able to write to it
<nalioth> lisapc: i'm sorry to tell you this, but you have dozens of users on your system
<lisapc> drwxr-xr-x 12 maria maria   4096 2007-03-17 13:38 stuff
<lisapc> nalioth, what???
<lisapc> dozens of users??
<lisapc> i only added me
<lisapc> at installation
<nalioth> lisapc: on every *nix system, there are dozens of users
<nalioth> lisapc: one of which is 'root'
<lisapc> nix/
<lisapc> ?
<nalioth> lisapc: any unix variant = *nix
<nalioth> bsd, linux, OSX, BeOS, solaris, etc
<nalioth> when you start userland programs using 'sudo' your user permissions can be changed so that what used to be yours, may now be owned by 'root'
<lisapc> wlel i learned a good lesson
<lisapc> i realised what caused the peesmission error
<lisapc> when I first started to dl that file, it was running Azurues as root
<lisapc> and then i loaded ktorrent as normal and it wanted to resume
<lisapc> so it gave permission denied
<nalioth> yep, sudo can be bad. . .
<lisapc> yeah
<lisapc> i know that now :)
<lisapc> so ill always use gkduso from no
<lisapc> now
<lisapc> was it gkduso or gksudo?
<nalioth> lisapc: dont get discouraged . . .  i totalled several linux installs back in the days i was first using it
<nalioth> gksudo
<lisapc> yeah, i love learning
<nalioth> hopefully you won't complete thrash your box . . .    :)
<lisapc> in the words of Winston Churchill: Never, ever,ever,ever,ever give up!
<lisapc> i live by those words :)
<nalioth> it's best to learn from others mistakes, you know.
<lisapc> giving up is for losers
<lisapc> yep
<lisapc> but the best teacher is personal experience, but as you said, its wise to learn from others mistakes so avoid to make them
<lisapc> :-)
<nalioth> well, neither k3b nor swfdec compiled  :(
<nalioth> try again in a few months. . .
<lisapc> nalioth,  whoo hoo
<lisapc> i started again and now Azureus updates withhout any errors :)
<lisapc> :)
<nalioth> :)
<lisapc> nalioth, why 3months?
<nalioth> both the items i mentioned are "smoking hot new" and after a month or 3, there'll be feedback and bug reports to make them more compilable on different hardware
<lisapc> ok
<lisapc> nalioth, but keep in mind, if everyone did as you, then there would be no constructive feedback from anyone in 3months :)
<lisapc> nalioth,  feedback comes a result of people not giving up after first attempt ;)
<lisapc> nalioth, just thought I would mention that ;) hehe
<nalioth> lisapc: i am quite vociferous with the developers
<nalioth> they hate me in the handbrake channel
<lisapc> Vociferous or Voracious? :)
<tonyyarusso> vociferous is a fun word
<nalioth> lisapc: a little of both, maybe
<lisapc> hehe :)
<lisapc> brb
<nalioth> but i DID finally get handbrake compiled on my powerpc linux box
<nalioth> lisapc: the reason i was so 'voracios' is that there is a 2 to 5 hour difference between running handbrake on my iMac (with the OSX gui) and running it on the console of my powerpc ubuntu box
<nalioth> bleh
<nalioth> takes ~45 minutes to rip and encode a dvd on my powerpc box and between 3 and 7 hours on the OSX box
<nalioth> .... and the OSX box is newer and has faster hardware
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-03-18
<blanky> what's up jrib
<blanky> maybe screen -X ?
<jrib> blanky: ok can you explain again what exactly you are doing?
<blanky> okay
<blanky> so I ssh'ed into my friends computer under the new username I made becuase I didn't want him to have to give me his username and password
<blanky> I'm ssh'ed in now, but I screated a screen session and I want him to be able to join it but we're under different usernames
<nalioth> i don't think that's possible
<blanky> oh really :( okay
<jrib> you can nalioth
<nalioth> jrib: you can?
<jrib> yes, but screen needs to be setuid root
<blanky> okay
<blanky> sudo setuid root screen ?
<blanky> and then on his part, screen -x ?
<jrib> it's  alittle more complicated than taht iirc
<jrib> blanky: sudo chmod u+s /usr/bin/screen
<blanky> nevermind, I'm stupid, my friend's just gonna login to the new user we created haha
<jrib> heh ok
<jrib> that's an easier way, yes
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: it is possible
<blanky> thanks though jrib I appreciate it
<tonyyarusso> blanky: I have a link to instructions - a sec
<blanky> tonyyarusso: sweet, thanks
<tonyyarusso> blanky: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Snoop_terminal_session#Screen, http://www.bangmoney.org/presentations/screen.html (3/4 of the way down)
<nalioth> jrib: i don't snoop
<jrib> nalioth: sure
<blanky> thanks tonyyarusso
<nalioth> i see tonyyarusso is a snoop, though
<tonyyarusso> Not really - it just came in handy one day.  It's a potential security hazard though, so remove the setuid when you're done
<nalioth> right . . . .
<nalioth> SNOOP  :P
<tonyyarusso> ;)
<nalioth> blanky: it is a security risk.
<blanky> okay, good to know anyways, thanks guys!
<rickyfingers> ok naolith, I'm here now.
<rickyfingers> What's up?
<nalioth> rickyfingers: open a console please and type "man update-alternatives"
<rickyfingers> got it.
<nalioth> it is with this command YOU decide which program your system uses for things
<nalioth> so you can select your default java version with it
<rickyfingers> I see. Thanks for the info.
<nalioth> might save you some trouble in the future, i'd suggest you use the commands necessary to list EVERY item it can adjust
<rickyfingers> ok I'm taking the plunge now and installing sun-java5-jre and the depending -bin package
<rickyfingers> and eclipse is starting, but still got an error.
<rickyfingers> ok checking out the .log file for clues...
<nalioth> did you do the update-alternatives ?
<rickyfingers> No...I thought I'd have to use that to fix open office later...
<mattyv> Pardon me for interrupting, but don't worry about office, you select which java you want it to use in the Tools > Options menu, it's separate
<rickyfingers> mattyv: I'll make a note of that fact.  I just seem to remebmer I had issues with java versions and oo a few months ago.
<rickyfingers> I'm also using a 64 bit kernel, and that may be complicating matters as well.
<mattyv> Not sure
<rickyfingers> I'm looking in the .log file now.
<rickyfingers> I've got an UnsatisfiedLinkError
<rickyfingers> so I think that means I'm missing a library...
<rickyfingers> just for the record, oo is working fine, and using sun's java - I don't think it was before.
<rickyfingers> I was getting a crash with oo presentation before, when I clicked on the menu bar but now it seems to be fixed.
<rickyfingers> So what I was worried about did not happen...which is good, now I just need to fix eclipse or the underlying jre
<rickyfingers> we look for things...things that make our ship go...
<rickyfingers> looks like I should've googled first https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/68053 is exactly what I'm experiencing here.
<rickyfingers> Sorry for not rtfm'ing more...
<rickyfingers> anyhow, manual install of eclipse seems to work fine.
<tonyyarusso> Hey, I was about to pop out for a moment, does someone have time to handle a RestrictedFormats walkthrough?
* #ubuntu-classroom  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-10
<Linux_Fresher> jrib: u still around ?
<jrib> Linux_Fresher: you shouldn't be touching sda1 now
<Linux_Fresher> erm ?
<jrib> did you shrink sda1 already?
<Linux_Fresher> but sda1 is the only HD where there is space to install ubuntu .. no havent done anything yet , because i got stuck at the 'Use as:' field .. btw did it confuse you too ?
<jrib> sda1 is a partition on sda
<nalioth> Linux_Fresher: use as ext3 for data or 'swap' for swap
<Linux_Fresher> the thing is if i choose /dev/sda and click new partition table, following message appears :   You have selected an entire device to partition. If you proceed with creating a new partition table on the device, then all current partitions will be removed.
<Linux_Fresher> Note that you will be able to undo this operation later if you wish.
<Linux_Fresher> i dont exactly want to select the entire hd now .. as i said it has windows and games on it
<jrib> nalioth: have you used the manual partition option in the installer to resize an ntfs partition?
<Linux_Fresher> yup uploading one more screeny now
<jrib> can't you use the automatic resize option instead of manual Linux_Fresher?
<Linux_Fresher> http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot3dn2.png
<Linux_Fresher> naw, i think i will give up for today
<Linux_Fresher> thanks a loads for your time .. i think i will have to get a linux guy around or so
<Linux_Fresher> better that someone teaches me real time
<Linux_Fresher> coz one thing is for sure, if i lose data because of mis-interpretation, i wont turn back to linux and i dont want that to happen
<nalioth> jrib: no, i use ntfsresize when doing it manually
<jrib> oh well
<candrews> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/199754 I'm attempting to solve that issue (packaging mod_auth_cas). I have a package made, but when I load the module into apache, I get: Can't locate API module structure `authcas_module' in file /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_auth_cas.so: /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_auth_cas.so: undefined symbol: authcas_module
<candrews> Can someone give me a hand to finish up this package?
<andrea-bs> candrews: you should ask on #ubuntu-devel
<candrews> thank you!
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-11
<gretsch> hello
<soundray> Hi
<gretsch> thanks for the help
<gretsch> tom here
<soundray> What does 'mount' say?
<gretsch> Mar 10 19:09:11 BigLaptop NetworkManager: <debug> [1205194151.079139] nm_hal_device_added(): New device added (hal udi is '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_part_1_size_4220223488').
<gretsch> well, i didn't get output when i did the mount | grep cdrom
<soundray> Okay
<soundray> What kind of CD are you inserting?
<gretsch> dvd
<soundray> Audio, video, data?
<gretsch> vido
<gretsch> video
<soundray> !dvd
<ubotwo> For playing DVD, see http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html - "libdvdcss2" can be found at !Medibuntu or (for Feisty and earlier) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages - Try k9copy (available in !Universe) for backing up DVDs
<gretsch> i burned it myself, and it works if i juset mount the cdrom as sudo from the console
<gretsch> i used Totem
<gretsch> i think i did, anyway
<soundray> gretsch: in the Removable... dialog, did you enable 'Play Video DVD' on the Multimedia tab?
<gretsch> y
<gretsch> totem %m
<gretsch> and the "Mount removable drives when hot-plugged" is checked
<gretsch> as are ALL the boxes in that section
<soundray> gretsch: so in summary, you have a DVD that won't be mounted or played automatically, but plays when you mount it on the command line
<gretsch> and i have the disk mounter up in the menu bar
<gretsch> exactly
<gretsch> and i cannot mount as user
<gretsch> so is it a permissions thing?
<gretsch> because when i select the "mount CD..." option from the little "mount disk" icon
<soundray> gretsch: if you call totem from the terminal, while the DVD is not mounted, and you click Movie - Play Disc -- does that  work?
<gretsch> as user...
<gretsch> it tells me i must be sudo to mount
<gretsch> as user?
<gretsch> as user, it tells me the same
<gretsch> "cannot mount volume"
<soundray> gretsch: are you in the cdrom group? Check with 'groups'
<gretsch> mount: must be superuser to mount volume
<gretsch> hmmm.... there *is* no cdrom group!
<soundray> There must be
<gretsch> haldaemon?
<soundray> Can you run 'sudo adduser $USER cdrom'?
<gretsch> otherwise, no 'cdrom' group
<gretsch> ok
<gretsch> tells me i am already a member of cdrom
<gretsch> but that group does not show up
<soundray> Does not show up where?
<gretsch> in the groups list
<gretsch> System > Admin > Users and Groups
<soundray> 'grep cdrom /etc/group'
<gretsch> cdrom:x:24:haldaemon,tom,root,megan
<soundray> The dialog  only lists groups where you're not already a member. So that's all fine.
<soundray> Do you know your DVD drive device name? /dev/...
<gretsch> it's /dev/cdrom
<gretsch> that's how i mount it
<gretsch> as ... sudo mount /dev/cdrom
<soundray> gretsch: what is it *really*? find out with 'ls -l /dev/cdrom'?
<gretsch> scd0
<gretsch> all rwx
<gretsch> btw
<soundray> What does 'ls -l /dev/scd0' say?
<soundray> Symbolic links are always all-rwx
<gretsch> ah ha
<gretsch> that's the issue
<gretsch> brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 11, 0 2008-03-10 06:33 /dev/scd0
<gretsch> need chmod 777?
<soundray> no, that's what it should be
<gretsch> damn
<gretsch> lol
<gretsch> well, i can certainly just mount it as sudo and then use it
<gretsch> and then umount when finished
<soundray> You could add a 'users' option for the fstab entry, then you can 'mount /dev/cdrom' as user
<gretsch> but i thought there must be an ok
<gretsch> ok
<soundray> Sorry I didn't have a _real_ fix for you
<gretsch> what's that file path?
<soundray> /etc/fstab
<gretsch> ok its open in gedit
<gretsch> as sudo
<soundray> Mine says
<soundray> /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
<gretsch> mine too
<soundray> So you should be able to 'mount /media/cdrom0' or 'mount /dev/scd0' as user
<soundray> btw, never open gedit with sudo -- use gksudo instead
<soundray> !gksu
<ubotwo> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<gretsch> i cannot mount as user from the command line
<soundray> What does it  say?
<gretsch> tom@BigLaptop:~$ mount /dev/cdrom
<gretsch> mount: must be superuser to use mount
<soundray> Read me carefully -- you must use mount /dev/scd0
<soundray> or the mount point, but not the symbolic link
<gretsch> same answer
<soundray> No typo?
<gretsch> tom@BigLaptop:~$ mount /dev/scd0
<gretsch> mount: must be superuser to use mount
<soundray> How about mount /media/cdrom0 ?
<gretsch> same
<soundray> It's as if mount was ignoring fstab
<gretsch> i am reading that link ubotwo, thanks!
<soundray> You didn't create a fat32 or ext3 filesystem on the CD by any chance?
<gretsch> hmmm
<soundray> The bot appreciates your gratitude
<gretsch> lol
<gretsch> the old bot
<gretsch> i *did* make these DVDs on a windows machine
<gretsch> maybe that's an issue?
<soundray> Let's see
<gretsch> probably fat32
<soundray> Do a 'sudo mount /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom0 && mount | grep cdrom'
<gretsch> got a prompt
<soundray> 'mount | grep cdrom' again?
<gretsch> root@BigLaptop:~# sudo mount /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom0 && mount | grep cdrom'
<gretsch> >
<soundray> Ctrl-C -- you copied a ' mark by mistake
<gretsch> tom@BigLaptop:~$ sudo mount /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom0 && mount | grep cdrom
<gretsch> mount: block device /dev/scd0 is write-protected, mounting read-only
<gretsch> /dev/scd0 on /media/cdrom0 type udf (ro)
<gretsch> and of course it's mounted
<soundray> Okay, that explains why it doesn't autoplay: DVDs are normally iso9660 and not udf
<gretsch> ok
<gretsch> let me grab another disk and try it
<gretsch> something commercially made
<soundray> But it doesn't explain why it won't mount as user
<soundray> Still, better than nothing
<gretsch> cannot mount a commercial CD either
<gretsch> tom@BigLaptop:~$ sudo mount /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom0 && mount | grep cdrom
<gretsch> mount: block device /dev/scd0 is write-protected, mounting read-only
<gretsch> /dev/scd0 on /media/cdrom0 type iso9660 (ro)
<gretsch> iso9660 but still not mountable
<gretsch> as you said
<soundray> But that output says that it does mount
<gretsch> because i sudo mounted it
<gretsch> yes
<gretsch> i meant it won't mount as user from the menu icon
<soundray> All right
<gretsch> in other words, i did it from the console
<soundray> I'm out of ideas now
<gretsch> lol
<gretsch> well, i guess i have gotten enough practice mounting from the console line
<gretsch> thanks for the effort!
<soundray> yw
<gretsch> nice place to hang out, this channel
<gretsch> talk to you later
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-12
<Linux_Fresher> Hello, I downloaded a file called Ubuntoon-2Feb2008.tar.bz2    .. this is supposed to be a theme file,  as per the instructions, i went to System--> Preferences --> Appearance --> Install --> desktop file Ubuntoon-2Feb2008.tar.bz2  .. but it says installation failed  :(
<rzr> asac: here i am :)
<asac> rzr: hi ;)
<crevette> someone on hardy can confirm me a bug ? press the exit launcher on the panel wait the menu with a lot of choices appears, and press esc
<crevette> => the menu disappears but the screen stays opaque
<Linux_Freshe1> Q: how to make a folder go to TRASH after hitting DELETE key ? right now i deleted 2 folders using delete key .. they are not there in trash can ..  Q2: also, is there undelete util in ubuntu ? ]
<james_w> Linux_Freshe1: you are better off asking in #ubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-13
<pleia2> ryanakca: are you subscribed to your own mailing list, dear? :)
<pleia2> hehe
<ryanakca> pleia2: lol, @gmail is, @kubuntu wasn't :)
<pleia2> hehe
 * ryanakca sends everything from @kubuntu... so... yeah, that was dumb on my part :)
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-14
<dholbach> ugh.... anybody here for the MOTU Q&A session today?
<dholbach> sorry, I'm late
 * Iulian waves
<Iulian> Hiya dholbach
<Iulian> It seems that I'm the only one here :)
<dholbach> hey Iulian
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> I was completely drowned and didn't notice the time :)
<dholbach> so how are you doing? any questions you brought with yout today? :)
<Iulian> Yeah, me too, my mom was playing and I forgot about the session.
<Iulian> I'm doing fine, thank you :)
<Iulian> Well, not really.
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> you've been working on quite some patches in the last time, didn't you?
<Iulian> Yes, that's right.
<Iulian> 10 packages to be exactly.
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> good work
<Iulian> Heh, thanks ;)
<Iulian> I think that's all for Hardy.
 * Iulian is waiting for intrepid.
<dholbach> it's fine to submit them package for intrepid already ;)
<dholbach> brb
<Iulian> Now I'm thinking to upgrade nxtvepg from 2.7.6 to 2.8
<Iulian> Okay
<dholbach> re
<Iulian> Hey
<dholbach> :-)
<Iulian> Well, like I said I'm thinking to upgrade nxtvepg to 2.8
<dholbach> cool
<Iulian> It shouldn't be so hard though
<dholbach> did you try to play with it a bit already?
<Iulian> Nop, I was a bit confused about it. Should I wait to be uploaded to Debian first?
<Iulian> Or I can make it now and submit to Debian as well.
<dholbach> yeah both is fine
<Iulian> I have enough time to start play with it.
<dholbach> :)
<Iulian> This will go in Intrepid right?
<dholbach> I don't see why not :)
<Iulian> I mean, it can't be uploaded to Hardy
<dholbach> you'd first have to fix it
<dholbach> you'd first have to upgrade it to see if it works, then ask for a freeze exception
<dholbach> does that make sense?
<Iulian> Ohh, ok, I will take a look at the upstream's changelog to see if there are some real changes.
<Iulian> Yea
<Iulian> If not, I should wait for Intrepid.
<dholbach> that sounds good
<Iulian> Is that correct? :)
<Iulian> Okay
<dholbach> if it's a bugfix only release we can try to get it still in
<dholbach> if not we can still backport it
<Iulian> Aww, yes, you're right.
<Iulian> Forgot about the backport ;)
<dholbach> so how do you like your MOTU journey up until now?
<Iulian> I think it's really great.
<dholbach> awesome :)
<dholbach> anything you'd like to be different?
<Iulian> To be honest it's really excellent how it is now.
<Iulian> And shouldn't be any changes. :)
<Iulian> Anyway, it would be great if we can have a class about 'How to sync/merge'
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> we should definitely have it early in the release cycle
<Iulian> And what's the difference between a sync and merge.
<dholbach> in a sync we copy over the source package from debian
<Iulian> That's great!
<dholbach> we completely overwrite our changes
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging describes the process where we merge the changes ranging from manually to semi-automatically :)
<Iulian> Cool
<dholbach> yeah :)
<Iulian> Heh, great, thanks!
<dholbach> anytime
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-15
<protonchris> @schedule
<Heartsbane> Holy #ubuntu-classroom mailspam
<bob__> jrib
<jrib> yes
<jrib> what is this program you are running?
<bob__> its a program called RatioMaster
<tritium> Thanks, guys :)
<bob__> np tritium
<jrib> bob__: okay so you aren't actually programming in mono?
<bob__> jrib: no
<jrib> okay, well we are going to make a simple program to test mono
<bob__> ok
<jrib> open a text editor
<bob__> done
<jrib> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59656/
<jrib> paste that in your editor
<bob__> ok
<bob__> done
<jrib> save it to your desktop as helloworld.cs
<jrib> install the package mono-mcs
<jrib> open a terminal
<jrib> execute 'cd ~/Desktop'
<jrib> execute 'mcs helloworld.cs'
<jrib> execute 'mono helloworld.exe'
<bob__> the letters hello world come up
<jrib> then mono is working
<bob__> I just read on the forums that it needs mono 1.2.5
<bob__> how do I get that?
<jrib> I do not know of an easy way for you to do that as only 1.2.4 is in Gutsy's repositories.  The only way I know of is for you to compile it.  Ask in #ubuntu if someone knows of an easier way
<bob__> jrib: oh, the whole problem was I wasn't spelling it right in terminal
<jrib> hmm?
<bob__> but now that i did i still get a massive error
<bob__> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59657/
<bob__> jrib ^^
<jrib> probably a version issue as you suggested before
<bob__> because in the forum they said to just go to synaptic and it would get me version 1.2.5
<jrib> !info mono
<bob__> mono (source: mono): Mono CLI (.NET) runtime. In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.4-6ubuntu6.1 (gutsy), package size 1 kB, installed size 28 kB
<jrib> yep, 1.2.4
<bob__> latest version is 1.9
<bob__> according to mono site
<jrib> yes, but ubuntu repositories are frozen each release to ensure a stable environment
<bob__> is there a safe way to install a newer version?
<jrib> I do not know of an easy way for you to do that as only 1.2.4 is in Gutsy's repositories.  The only way I know of is for you to compile it.  Ask in #ubuntu if someone knows of an easier way
<bob__> ok, thank you so much for your help
<jrib> no problem, good luck
<bob__> thanks, I don't suppose anyone will answer though
<jrib> explain that you have an application that requires a later version of mono than what is in the repositories when you ask your question
<jrib> !compile
<jrib> if you decide to try to compile it ^  I'll probably be around tomorrow too if you are still stuck
<jrib> ubotu: compile
<jrib> ubotu: wake up
<jrib> there's also ubuntuforums.org and lists.ubuntu.com mailing list
<jrib> !support
<agent-orange> hey anyone know how to take my contacts from my sidekick 3 cellphone? thru usb
<nalioth> agent-orange: try ##hardware
<agent-orange> cool thanks
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-03-16
<abhay_> there?
<visualdeception> Zelut: using web based IRC client right now
<visualdeception> may be an option to link to from the page....although you would need to identify what server to connect to
<Zelut> visualdeception: ok
<visualdeception> not sure if it is what you would like to use....maybe an option
<Zelut> visualdeception: just want to have *some* option to suggest.
<Zelut> brb
<zelut_> visualdeception: wow, mibbit isn't bad at all.
<visualdeception> the tabs at the top were pretty slick i thought and it lets you actually log in as yourself
<zelut_> visualdeception: good find!
<visualdeception> thanks
<Zelut> visualdeception: lets look into embedding freenode/#ubuntu-classroom to cut down the learning curve.
<visualdeception> ok looking at the code to embed....lets see what we can break
<Zelut> visualdeception: I'm not seeing examples of embedding the server..
<visualdeception> no neither am i...may see if i can contact the owner to see if this is possible
<Zelut> visualdeception: Currently, the widget is only able to access IRC channels on the Mibbit.com server. The developers tell me they are working with other providers (like freenode.net) to support channels on their servers too.
<visualdeception> ahh
<zelut_> I guess we can either document using this & specifying server, or see if another option will work.
<visualdeception> yea
<Zelut> visualdeception: if a user searches for the channel it's the top result. that might be simpler
<visualdeception> yea, might be a viable option
<mib_wcskjdje> test
<visualdeception> would a cgi based irc client be a viable option...would need to host it somewhere
<visualdeception> gonna see if i can run a test one quickly on my server
<highvoltage> Zelut: what's the topic for the class in 2 hours? (just saw your tweet)
<Zelut> highvoltage: planning meeting for upcoming presentations.
<Zelut> highvoltage: perhaps my twitter should be more specific. nothing exciting, just a 'lets plan some presentations' meeting.
<highvoltage> Ubuntu presentations? cool, I didn't even know there were meetings like that. I often have to do ubuntu presentations. will be nice to be involved with that.
<Zelut> highvoltage: yeah, this channel is for teaching about ubuntu.  we're working on scheduling regular events, teaching users how to contribute.
<Zelut> highvoltage: if you'd like to help with the planning hang out.  if you just want to present keep in touch.
<highvoltage> ok, will do.
<Zelut> we will definitely need presenters.
<highvoltage> ah, *doh*. I only get it now, presentations, as in lessons, not as in Impress slides you show at work/clients and at LUG meetings :)
<Zelut> it could be done similarly I'm sure.. perhaps IRC + S5.
<test1> test1
<visualdeception> nope dont like that one
<visualdeception> Zelut: can't find anything better/slicker than mibbit
<Zelut> visualdeception: perhaps we'll just need to document some basic steps
<visualdeception> the search function definetly makes it nice though
<visualdeception> Zelut: where do you want the weechat tutorial done? is there a wiki for it already?
<Zelut> visualdeception: I don't think so.. let me double-check
<Zelut> visualdeception: add an IRC section here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WeeChat
<visualdeception> just add how to join a channel and server? change nick?
<visualdeception> woops check that, this is already in there
<Zelut> ohhh
<visualdeception> its under text based...do we have direct links to these howto's on the classroom wiki?
<visualdeception> although a list of channels would be nice here
<Zelut> visualdeception: some of them - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/IRCHOWTO
<pleia2> FWIW, I already know the owner of mibbit and have been working with him for embedding options for another IRC network
<pleia2> so they are developing such a thing
<visualdeception> thats pretty awesome
 * pleia2 nods
<visualdeception> since weechat doesnt have a wiki page should one be created?
<visualdeception> or just link to the community doc
<pleia2> link to community doc
<Zelut> visualdeception: if you can just updated the IRCHOWTO page to link there, that'll be great.
<visualdeception> saving the changes right now
<visualdeception> ok its taken care of
<Heartsbane> FYI: I might be 5 minutes late, sorry guys
<pleia2> if we're doing it in gobby, it'll be a no-go for me again I'm afraid
<Zelut> I don' think we'll need gobby this week
<pleia2> oh good :)
<Zelut> popey: ping - going to make it this week?
<Zelut> pleia2: have any time to check out hiveminder?
<pleia2> nope :\
<Zelut> I think its been working pretty well so far.
<herlo> Zelut: you should just assign her tasks, that way she can get started
<visualdeception> lol
<Zelut> I created a bunch of 'up for grabs' tasks, which a few people have tackled.
<Zelut> I think its helped get things done this week.
<pleia2> yeah, I've been seeing the email alerts come in
<pleia2> herlo: heh, I really am just not sure I have time to learn another application right now
<pleia2> but I'll try
<visualdeception> lol, yea seems that i'm the source of most of those
<Zelut> pleia2: the one complaint is that there have been a lot of HM emails
<pleia2> Zelut: yeah, I'm not sure how to avoid that though
<herlo> pleia2: Zelut:  simply just make a rule to mark them read and put them in a TODO folder
<Zelut> pleia2: I do wish similar functionality could be done via launchpad.. but until then.
<herlo> works well if you use your gmail account for email
<Zelut> looks like its about time to start
<Zelut> who do we have attending this time?
 * highvoltage  
<visualdeception> just wondering would creating like a classroom-meeting room help??
<Zelut> let's give it a try in here, keep it public.
<Zelut> To get started, the agenda for this weeks meeting is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2008Mar16
<Zelut> I'll just dive into the items..
 * herlo is here
<Zelut> 1)  What have we heard back from Aaron Toponce at USTeams?
<Zelut> we've heard nada
<Zelut> So, we're going to scrap that for now.  I have followed up with him, but no progress so far.
<Zelut> We'll keep it on the table, but I think longer term.
<Zelut> any comments on that item?
 * Zelut wonders if everyone is awake :)
 * etank kinda
<visualdeception> sounds good to me
<Zelut> Let's try item 2
<Zelut> 2)  Can we define a solid date for Openweek?
<Zelut> I have emailed Jono about it.  Waiting for a reply.
<Zelut> I think it would be nice to produce OpenWeek this time around, we'll just need to collaborate with him.
 * pleia2 nods
<visualdeception> agreed
<Zelut> So that item should be added to next weeks Agenda, and we'll wait for a reply.
<Zelut> 3)  Migrate new-improved wiki to overwrite old.
<Zelut> This task has been done.  Big ups to Heartsbane for attention there.
<pleia2> yay Heartsbane :)
<Zelut> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom looks much nicer and organized.
<Zelut> Heartsbane ftw!
<Zelut> 4) #
<Zelut> Should we create an announcement banner on the wiki?
<Zelut> This item was listed on hiveminder and Heartsbane took teh assignment.
<Zelut> He did mention he might be late today so perhaps we'll come back to that.
<Zelut> 5)  Creation of marketing blog widgets for upcoming events?
<Zelut> visualdeception: can you link to the draft widget you made?
<visualdeception> yep
<Zelut> I'd like to have some discussion on what we would like here.
<Zelut> I think these'll be great for marketing on blogs, etc.
<Heartsbane> I am here
<visualdeception> http://linux.dudenhofer.net/ubuntuclassroom.png
<Zelut> Heartsbane: cool. lets talk widgets and come back to the banner.
<visualdeception> a logo would be nice...not sure about the slogan
<Zelut> What does everyone think about a logo / slogan to put on these blog widgets?
<Zelut> I figured they could be like these - http://crunchbang.net/advocacy/,
<Zelut> thoughts?
<visualdeception> like a bulb? maybe in the ubuntu logo?
<pleia2> visualdeception's looks nice, we can think of a slogan
<Heartsbane> Maybe something less busy... not a bulb but a 'open' boot
<Heartsbane> just a thought
<Zelut> something like - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=info.png
<Zelut> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=example.png
<Zelut> Heartsbane: an open boot?
<pleia2> I like the chalkboard
<Zelut> Heartsbane: open book?
<Heartsbane> Zelut: s/boot/book/
<Heartsbane> sorry
<Heartsbane> I like the second suggestion
<Heartsbane> the chalkboard
<Zelut> maybe we can find something from the tango artwork.. they seem to have tons of custom icons.
<Zelut> how about a slogan?
<Zelut> what would we like the widgets to say?
 * Heartsbane is thinking.
<pleia2> I don't have any ideas off the top of my head, I'll think about it though
<Zelut> "Ask not what Ubuntu can do for you, but what you can do for Ubuntu" ;)
<visualdeception> lol
<Heartsbane> Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. -- W. Edwards Deming (1900 - 1993)
<Zelut> Heartsbane: maybe a random polling of education/learning quotes
<visualdeception> if anyone thinks of one could just add it to the to do list
<Heartsbane> ya that quote is more like something for a scared straight ad
<herlo> Ubuntu-Classroom, not just for newbs
<herlo> or noobs
<pleia2> heh
<visualdeception> do we want the slogan in the ubuntu font??
<Zelut> maybe we should start compilig a list
<Zelut> visualdeception: I don't think the slogan needs to be in the font, just readable..
<visualdeception> ok
<herlo> Ubuntu-classroom, we provide you bananas for every class you attend :)
<Heartsbane> no
<herlo> :) lol
<herlo> Ubuntu-classroom, the juggernaut to understanding
<Zelut> I'll create a hiveminder item where we can list slogans in comments. how 'bout that?
<pleia2> sounds good
<Heartsbane> k I think that this is something we can..... exactly... either that or mailing list
<Heartsbane> next item
<Zelut> Heartsbane: how about back to the banner.
<Heartsbane> k
<Zelut> Heartsbane: I see you've taken that assignment. anything to report?
<Heartsbane> I was going to only use the banner to report upcoming events, short and simple
<Heartsbane> but
<Heartsbane> someone suggested we could use it for more
<Heartsbane> I just wanted someone else thoughts
<pleia2> well, I think we do want to keep it relatively simple
<Zelut> what is 'more'?
<Heartsbane> well someone, who is not in the group suggested that we should use it to remind people
<Heartsbane> that you should ask support related questions in #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu, or #xubuntu.
<Zelut> I think those reminders are handled well enough within IRC.  I don't think we need it on the wiki
<Heartsbane> and several other things but .... okay .... that is my thought something simple good
<Heartsbane> just throw that out there
<Heartsbane> k I will make a banner sometime tonight
<Zelut> I imagine something simple just to show the upcoming schedule.
<Heartsbane> unless anyone else has anything else to say
<visualdeception> simple is usually better on a webpage imo
<Heartsbane> k, next?
<Zelut> ok
<Zelut>  Try to get some more solid assignments for others on the list
<Zelut> one attempt to achieve this was to create the tasks in hiveminder that people can volunteer for.
<Zelut> for some of the main contributors we can assign tasks, but those that have been lurking can easily take a job.
<Zelut> the only problem is I don't think we can share that list to the general public
<visualdeception> add one to the wiki? but them someone has to be constantly updating that
<Heartsbane> I don't see the trouble if they want to help, shouldn't they formally join the group?
<Zelut> visualdeception: yeah, then there is duplication and more effort to keep thim synched.
<Zelut> Heartsbane: should we just have a standard 'if you're in LP you have access to the tasks'?
<Zelut> Heartsbane: that way if they are formally part of the group they can take any job they want?
<Zelut> ..and the tasks are all planning related, which is what LP has been limited to so far.
<Heartsbane> Zelut: that is my personal thought, anyone else want to weigh in a opinion
<Zelut> pleia2: thoughts?
<pleia2> well, it would be nice if the tasks could be made public, then people could see what there is before they decide to join the project
<Zelut> pleia2: I know you have concern about needing to learn additional applications..
<pleia2> but if there isn't a way to do it..
<pleia2> yeah, using hiveminder does increase the barrier to entry
<Zelut> pleia2: if we could submit 'bugs' against a team we could do it on LP.. but I don't think we can.
<pleia2> which is unfortunate
<visualdeception> is there a way we could sync hiveminder....or vice versa
<Zelut> this kind of leads to the next item which we can combine here..
<pleia2> I'm wondering about visualdeception's idea - maybe just put major tasks up on a wiki page? or just describe the *types* of stuff we need done rather than specifics?
<Heartsbane> Zelut: why is it, prohibitted to submit a bug against a Team in LP?
<Zelut> should we keep using hiveminder?  those that have been using it, what are your thoughts?
<Zelut> Heartsbane: there just isn't the functionality.. no 'submit bug' button for teams/people.
<visualdeception> i think its nice, but might be leaving people out that might be willing to help if they knew what needed to be done
<visualdeception> hiveminder does have an rss feed
<Heartsbane> thank god or I would have a whole lot of bugs
<visualdeception> woops atom
<pleia2> oh, an atom feed might be useful
<Zelut> visualdeception: that could to the trick
<herlo> visualdeception: I think it does rss too
<Zelut> it does plain text, ical or atom output
<Zelut> that could help with publishing the tasks without manual reproduction
<Heartsbane> visualdeception: nice
<herlo> oh
<Zelut> so should we have people subscribe to the atom feed? output the plain text to a wiki import?
<Zelut> RSS is zero work on our part, a little on the user.
<visualdeception> probably, is there a way we could automate this
<pleia2> output plain text to a wiki import?
<pleia2> if that could be automated that would be nice
<Zelut> pleia2: output the plain text listing of tasks and manually import it to the wiki, but that still leaves that overhead for us.
 * pleia2 nods
<Zelut> the problem I think with the RSS is that it outputs once per 24hrs
<visualdeception> what about that program nixternal wrote about...hold let me check something
<Zelut> ..so someone might subscribe wondering the tasks, and not see them until the next day.
<Zelut> visualdeception: editmoin? we'd still have to maintain it.
<pleia2> well, it would at least give some idea to folks about the project - then they can join up and take tasks once they join
<Zelut> what about the ical?
<visualdeception> http://blog.nixternal.com/2008.03.08/ubuntu-wiki-editing-made-easy/
<Zelut> visualdeception: yeah, that's just CLI based wiki editing..
<Zelut> visualdeception: it won't import anything, so its the same amount of work.
<Heartsbane> visualdeception: ya ya ya editmoin already doing it
<visualdeception> lol
<Heartsbane> :)
<visualdeception> wasnt sure if you could import
<Heartsbane> nope
<visualdeception> that sucks
<Zelut> wait, one sec..
 * Heartsbane waits.
<Zelut> does this require authentication?
<Zelut> http://hiveminder.com/let/christer.edwards%40gmail.com/feed/format/text/tokens/owner%20nobody%20not%20complete%20but_first%20nothing%20group%203584/28cf2cfc54ea8a33
<Zelut> yeck, tinyurl ftw
<Zelut> what I'm trying to find is whether we can just link to the plain text output
<Zelut> that way, if they are interested, they open the plain text link and see what's on the agenda
<Zelut> if they want to work with us in hiveminder they join LP and we add them too the group
<pleia2> yeah that works without login
<Zelut> so maybe we tinyurl a direct link to the plain text? that's simple enough on both ends right?
<pleia2> +1
<Zelut> we don't have to maintain anything seperate and they just read a text file..
<visualdeception> does the text link auto update when a task is added or closed?
<Zelut> it should
<Zelut> it looks like its auto-generated based on the URL
<visualdeception> cool
<Heartsbane> I think that is worht a shot
<Zelut> ok then.
<Zelut> so we'll use that to show what we are working on, and if they want to join they can join LP and they'll be given access to hiveminder too.
<Zelut> deal?
<visualdeception> sounds good to me
<Heartsbane> +1
<Zelut> done
<Zelut> next item.
<Zelut> #
<Zelut> Continue using gobby? irc? what to do about lurkers in classroom?
<Zelut> I think, now that we're done with the main wiki work, we may not need gobby?
<visualdeception> +1
<Heartsbane> I like gobby for collaborative thinking, when you all need to be working together
<pleia2> +1
<pleia2> Heartsbane: but that might be only sometimes? rather than full meetings?
<Heartsbane> but that i just me I can go with the group
<Heartsbane> true
<Zelut> it has its place, true.
<Heartsbane> I abstain, with a 0 ... :)
<Zelut> I think, moving forward, unless there is a real need for it we won't hold the meetings in gobby?
<Heartsbane> I will go with the group
<Zelut> but when there is a document (perhaps submitted presentations) to be looked over we can plan to use it.
<Zelut> also, do we want to keep meeting in here with all these lurkers? :)
<pleia2> yes, most of the lurkers are here beause they are interested in the project :)
<Zelut> I'm guessing a portion of these people are lurking since the last openweek :)
<Heartsbane> Yes
<Heartsbane> Open discussions might spark more involvement, and presentations
 * pleia2 nods
<Zelut> so we'll keep it in here and be transparent and all that :)
<Zelut> +1
<Heartsbane> unless anyone objects
<Heartsbane> +1 for me
<pleia2> +1
<visualdeception> +!
<visualdeception> 1
<Heartsbane> hahaha
<Zelut> ok, next item.
<Zelut> #
<Zelut> Discussion of invitation from Belinda Lopez at Ubuntu-Training to collaborate on future events.
<Heartsbane> Does anyone know belinda?
<Zelut> Heartsbane: I do
<pleia2> yep
<Heartsbane> I don't ... I would really like to see them present
<Zelut> I guess I don't quite understand the item..
<Zelut> we want to have ubuntu-training present?
<Heartsbane> I didn't quite understand her email
<Heartsbane> What exactly is she offering?
<Zelut> nobody sure?
<Heartsbane> Anyone? Belinda are you out there?
<visualdeception> looking for her email
<pleia2> her nick is dinda - she's not here
<pleia2> I can ask her for clarification though, I talk to her often enough
<Zelut> she's rarely on IRC that I've seen
<Zelut> or maybe I'm just in all the wrong channels
<Heartsbane> I take it you both have had contact with her? can someone ask her how ubuntu-training would like to contribute?
<Zelut> pleia2: can you follow up with her then?
<pleia2> Zelut: will do
<Zelut> ok
<Zelut> last item and we need to wrap up
<Zelut> Since we don't have a solid team locked-in perhaps a public 'call for papers' and have a big community-powered presentation?
<Zelut> I was thinking we could treat it like a conference and give people a chance to submit presentations.
<Zelut> the project does aim to help people get involved, how better than letting users teach other users how to get involved.
<Heartsbane> I know something done in Django on google code
<visualdeception> sounds good....for the march class or later on?
<Heartsbane> *cough* maybe we could adapt it *cough*
<Zelut> Heartsbane: how so?
<Zelut> I think march is out, but april should still work.
<Heartsbane> we could just redo conman if you want to do call for papers web based app
<Heartsbane> but I don't really see the need quite yet
<Zelut> Heartsbane: I hadn't thought of conman, but I figured people could just email in their proposals.
<Zelut> if presenters submit to us we don't have to go looking for them (outside of marketing)
<Heartsbane> oh just sounded to me like you were looking for something bigger
<Zelut> same style, but just let people submit presentations to us and market a 'call for papers' type of thing in the marketing.
<Heartsbane> k
<Zelut> not conference-big, but a similar idea with the call for papers..
<Heartsbane> Can I ask that we put the redo of the Classroom Guidelines on next weeks agenda
<Heartsbane> it needs a serious overhaul
<Zelut> Heartsbane: sure
<Zelut> also, remember any of you can add/manage tasks in hiveminder
<Zelut> if you think of anything that needs done assign it or put it in the 'up for grabs'
<Heartsbane> k
<Zelut> I need to wrap up and get ready for my flight.
<Zelut> anything left unresolved?
<Heartsbane> Any other suggestions for next week? or unresolved?
<Zelut> I think that's about it then.
<Heartsbane> anyone still at the keyboard?
<Heartsbane> anyone?
<visualdeception> yes
 * Zelut pounds the gavel. adjourned!
<pleia2> :)
<Heartsbane> K I will have this all typed up by tonight as per usual
<pleia2> thanks, Heartsbane
<Heartsbane> I got another project meeting in 2 hours and I have even read those materials
<Heartsbane> :(
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-10
<eddie1> i need help with my usb camera can enyone help me
<eddie1> i need help with my usb camera can enyone help me
<eddie1> i need help with my usb camera can enyone help me
<persia> eddie1, The best support channel is #ubuntu.
<persia> This channel is mostly for scheduled classes.
<persia> Also, you don't need to repeat yourself quite so much.
<eddie1> thanks
<cprofitt> pleia2, you here?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-11
<eddie1> helo almal
<lovinglinux> bodhi.zazen are you here with a different nickname?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-12
<eddie1> helo almal
<eddie1> helo almal;
<eddie1> funkyhat: helo
<funkyHat> eddie1: hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-13
<hamidlogis> hello everybody
<hamidlogis> i am new
<hamidlogis> and i want to be introduced to this channel
<pleia2> hamidlogis: welcome :) you can find info about the project on our wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<hamidlogis> thank you pleia@
<hamidlogis> i found that next class will be 19March
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom | Upcoming: 19 Mar 2009 @ 00:00 UTC: Securing Ubuntu ; 26 Mar 2009 @ 00:00 UTC: Securing Ubuntu | Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<pleia2> hamidlogis: yes
<hamidlogis> and for now whats going on
<pleia2> nothing, this channel is just for holding classes
<pleia2> and talking about the project
<hamidlogis> can you advise me a channel for discussing issues
<pleia2> hamidlogis: what kind of issues?
<hamidlogis> i have installed kde-core and after iÂ´ve installed kubuntu-desktop and now i want to remove both of them i want to stay in Gnome
<pleia2> ah, support is in #ubuntu
<noren> hi all
<Sattu> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-15
<mcnicholls> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-03-15
<Viz_> whats goin on
<Barn38> hello all
<leoquant> hi Barn38
<Barn38> hello
<Barn38> does anyone actually chat,I'm new to irc
<leoquant> ah, you this channel is more or less related to Ubuntu?
<leoquant> know
<leoquant> and you are talking via freenode.net?
<mhall119|work> this channel is generally used for teaching sessions
<mhall119|work> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/
<mhall119|work> there usually isn't much chatter here
<mhall119|work> for help, try #ubuntu
<mhall119|work> or #ubuntu-beginners
<Claudinux> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-03-16
<brandon420> hey
<cjohnston> hello brianchidester
<cjohnston> sorry wrong nick
<brianchidester> np cjohnston
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-03-17
<biborn> nie tempat ape?
<seze> Stockholm som utbildningar hÃ¥lls i ?
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-03-18
<Seze> NÃ¥n som har installerat RTW, har problem. Har svÃ¥rt att fÃ¥ ubuntu att ta disk 2 nÃ¤r den krÃ¤vs efter fÃ¶rsta.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Current Session: Adopt an Upstream - Instructor: jcastro || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<cjohnston> Hello everyone.. Who is here for adopting an upstream?
<mhall119|work> not me
<mhall119|work> sorry
<nhandler> We will contact jcastro (who does not appear to be here right now) and try and reschedule the session.
<ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-03-19
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
<blendmaster1024> well this is boring
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-03-14
<ashurocks> hii everyone
<ashurocks> is there anybody
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-03-15
<danny66RO> hy all
<danny66RO> i need some help
<danny66RO> anyone?
<pleia2> danny66RO: for support you want #ubuntu
<danny66RO> ok
<danny66RO> thx
<pleia2> (this channel is for classes)
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-03-17
<omar_> hi
<dpm> ok, so it's time for a translations session :)
<dpm> hey all, and welcome to another session in the translations training series
<dpm> We'll wait for a couple of minutes for people to come in...
<hannie> dpm = David?
<dpm> yeah :)
<hannie> hi
<dpm> hey hannie, nice to see you here :)
<dpm> any other translators around?
<michael_k> yeah!
<dpm> o/ michael_k
<dpm> ok, so I guess we can get started
<michael_k> aka mk73628
<dpm> this session is not moderated, so feel free to interrupt me if you've got any questions
<hajour> hai hannie
<dpm> Today we're going to talk about translation quality and quality assurance (QA)
<dpm> That is, how you can make sure you can provide the best translations for the best Operating System around
<dpm> I'll first cover a couple of background topics, then we'll have a look at review workflows
<dpm> and finally I'll go through some resources you can use to improve the quality of your translations
<dpm> Why is translation quality important
<dpm> ------------------------------------
<dpm> Most importantly, translations can affect the overall impression users get on the OS.
<dpm> Good and consistent translations will provide a good user experience, but mistakes and typos can give a poor impresion to an otherwise awesome Operating System
<dpm> Wrong translations can also be misleading:
<dpm> just imagine translating "We've accepted your payment" to "We've taken all of your money"
<dpm> this might be far-fetched
<michael_k> but can make you pm of greece
<dpm> hahaha
<dpm> but translation mistakes do happen, especially on messages that are ambiguous
<dpm> or that lack context
<dpm> So we want to make sure our translations are as good as we can make them
<dpm> Basic rules for translation quality
<dpm> -----------------------------------
<hannie> When in doubt, we use the mailing list to discuss a translation problem
<dpm> it's really cool when participants actually deliver the session!
<dpm> that's really good advice ^
<dpm> communication is important
<dpm> especially in case of doubt
<michael_k> +1
<dpm> actually, perhaps rather than me talking, we can make this a bit more participative
<hannie> I want to add something, ok?
<dpm> sure!
<dpm> which tips do you guys have for teams to provide better quality translations?
<hannie> After the right decision we put the translation on a list on our wiki
<hannie> The list gets longer and longer
<dpm> so you're basically building a translation memory or translation guidelines of some sort as you go along, right?
<hannie> right, we do it together
<hajour> hannie let check translation by people who make a program like that and/or use them from IRC
<dpm> ok, cool
<dpm> ok, so let me go on with some other basic rules:
<dpm> * Check out the context -
<dpm> when doing a translation, try to guess what the context is in the application.
<dpm> There can be several different translations of the same original English message depending on how it is being used,
<dpm> and you will want to make sure you pick the right one.
<dpm> Read the translator comments the developer has left for you, if any, as that will be really helpful in understanding where the text comes from.
<michael_k> *sighs*
<dpm> Try to run the application and locate the message, so you can have a clear picture where and how it is used.
<dpm> Alternatively, if you can read source code, there is usually an indication on where the message comes from in the code, and this will generally help determine its exact usage
<dpm> what else?
<dpm> * Review -
<dpm> This should actually be review, review, and review some more :)
<hannie> Can we ask writers to give us more information?
<hannie> Especially where variables are used
<dpm> yeah, definitely. You might have different experiences depending on the developer
<dpm> and it might not be feasible to add comments to all strings, but:
<hannie> Do you do this through a bug report?
<michael_k> I would also suggest checking out similar apps
<dpm> yeah, a bug report would help you make your case
<dpm> and it's how developers track their work
<hannie> I have done it once and guess what:
<hannie> I got an answer from Mark Shuttleworth
<dpm> :)
<michael_k> cool!
<dpm> that's the beauty of our community
<dpm> ok, any more comments on context, or shall I go on to the review part?
<hannie> go ahead
<michael_k> yeap!
<dpm> ok, so
<dpm> * Review -
<dpm> regardless of whether you are doing this before accepting a translation or after, this is one of the most important parts in the process:
<dpm> always review your translations - no one is infallible, and you will, from time to time create translations with typos.
<dpm> No matter if you are an experienced translator or not
<dpm> (I do them all the time :)
<michael_k> me2!
<dpm> Apart from that, it is always useful to get feedback and foster discussion on translations, as some other translator might have a better proposal,
<hannie> +1
<dpm> and these discussions are invaluable to get more translation experience.
<dpm> as hannie and hajour were mentioning earlier
<dpm> The most useful method is to do peer review:
<dpm> let other translators go through your translations, fix mistakes and provide feedback.
<hannie> The problem is that you need many good translators for this
<michael_k> Or (like us)  a (sadly) small team
<dpm> That's true, but these good translators, when they act as reviewers, can be excellent trainers for new translators
<hannie> Ours has five translators with full access at the moment
<michael_k> OK! so it's easier to communicate and check uot each other
<dpm> yeah, but 5 people can do a lot! :-) We're a small team as well
<dpm> Ok, onto the next point:
<dpm> * Test -
<dpm> We've got an awesome and vast community, that can help testing your translations
<dpm> so reach out to them
<dpm> ask users to test the translations by using the OS, and to provide feedback on local forums or mailing lists
<michael_k> +1
<hannie> How can you test when the translation is not you published?
<dpm> there are two options:
<hannie> *you = yet
<dpm> during the development period, language pack updates are released often for those applications supported in language packs (most of them)
<dpm> so anyone running the development version can test translations relatively early after they've been done
<dpm> on stable releases:
<dpm> folks can test translations before a language pack is being released by enabling the -proposed repository
<dpm> and following the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
<hannie> Question: if someone installs Natty now, can he see the translations for Natty that we recently made on LP?
<dpm> or they can use the weekly translations PPA (more on that later), to have fresh translations every week
<dpm> hannie, the short answer: yes
<dpm> Let me ellaborate on that
<dpm> language packs for the development version are being released twice a week
<dpm> If you look at the table on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
<dpm> on the "Language Pack Builds" column
<dpm> you see that builds start Tuesday and Friday
<dpm> so for Natty that means that language packs are usually available one day later: Wednesday and Saturday
<dpm> unless we are close to a milestone
<dpm> e.g. Alpha-1, Alpha-3, Beta, etc.
<dpm> as before the milestones we put on hold any automatic package uploads
<dpm> to make sure nothing uncontrolled slips into the milestone release unnoticed
<dpm> Any other questions on testing?
<michael_k> Just a suggetsion
<dpm> sure
<michael_k> if you are tranlsating something technical
<michael_k> try to reach people expert into that to get some insight in technical jargon
<michael_k> thety can help you test and alos you promote the OS
<dpm> yeah, that's good advice, thanks michael_k
<dpm> Reviewing translations in Launchpad
<dpm> -----------------------------------
<hannie> We have recently asked people with knowledge in a specific area to give us their email address
<hannie> so that we can ask them questions about that area
<hannie> I have put all the information in a database
<dpm> oh, cool
<hannie> think of maths, electronics, telecommunication etc
<michael_k> +1
<hannie> dpm, sorry for interrupting
<dpm> no worries, as I said, I welcome participation, it makes the session more fun :)
<hannie> ok
<dpm> ok, back to the topic
<dpm>  Reviewing translations in Launchpad
<dpm>  -----------------------------------
<dpm> Launchpad provides review functionality that can be really helpful, you should definitely try it
<michael_k> it's also EASY!
<dpm> Even if you are a translator with full write access in Launchpad
<hannie> like what?
<hannie> suggestions?
<dpm> for example, you can try to use the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox when providing a translation, so it ends up as a suggestion
<dpm> that someone else has to review and accept
<dpm> If you don't want to click on every message to activate that, you can use the "Reviewer mode" functionality
<hannie> Yes, I use this checkbox when I am not sure about something and want to do some research first
<dpm> with it, every translation you provide will be added as a suggestion
<dpm> as what the option effectively does is to tick the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox for you.
<dpm> But even if you don't do that, and translate directly, you can still use suggestions for review
<dpm> by asking someone else to do the peer review of your translated strings and leave alternative suggestions for you to consider in those cases where he/she thinks there are better alternatives
<dpm> or mistakes
<dpm> You know the drill, for good translations QA, review, review, review :)
<dpm> whichever your workflow is
<michael_k> +1
<denisbr> OlÃ¡
<denisbr> Hello All
<michael_k> sorry I have to go now! David thank you for another gr8 session! bb everyone!!
<hannie> ola
<dpm> ok, so we're approaching the end of the session, and we haven't covered everything yet. So I think we'll just leave the rest for the next session. What do you prefer to do with the remaining time? Shall I go quickly through a couple of remaining points or do you want to do a bit of Q+A?
<dpm> ola denisbr
<hannie> bye michael_k
<dpm> bye michael_k!!
<denisbr> I do lost the videocast?
<dpm> denisbr, there wasn't a videocast this week, but I'm planning one for next week
<dpm> Ok, so I'll quickly go through a couple of points:
<hannie> denisbr: into which language do you translate?
<dpm> Whenever you see a translation mistake in an application:
<denisbr> Portuguese Brazil
<dpm> If you think it's something that your translation team can fix, you should contact them
<dpm> Otherwise, you can always report it as a bug on the translations project at:
<dpm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug
<dpm> And finally, as I was mentioning it on the testing part earlier on, here's how to activate the weekly language pack PPA
<dpm> Using the weekly translations PPA
<dpm> ---------------------------------
<dpm> These are really useful to test translations on a weekly bases for *stable* releases
<dpm> So that you can always run the freshest translations and spot any mistakes and fix them quickly before they reach the wider audience
<dpm> The PPA is available here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa
<dpm> and you can easily add it by running this on the command line:
<dpm>     sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-langpack/ppa
<dpm>     sudo apt-get update
<hannie> I love links ;)
<dpm>     sudo apt-get upgrade
<dpm> in case of doubt, you can check out the excellent help on the LP wiki: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware
<dpm> So, we didn't cover the workflows, but we did cover a lot of ground. I think we'll leave it here and discuss the rest on another session
<hannie> ok, thank you very much, David. See you nest time
<dpm> Thanks a lot for everyone's participation, it was a lot of fun :)
<dpm> thanks hannie
<hannie> *next
<hannie> bye, bye
<hajour> thanks for the clear class dpm
<dpm> thanks hajour
<dpm> and see you all on the next training session in a week or two!
<serfus> dpm, great session
<dpm> thanks serfus, thanks for listening in :)
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-03-18
<kaydsoft> kaydsoft.com
<kaydsoft> http://www.google.com
<kaydsoft> http://20thingsilearned.com/
<Omega> 30 minutes to go!
<jono> hi folks, apologies, due to an error with DST, the session was incorrectly announced an hour early - mdz will be doing the Q+A in an hour at 5.30pm UTC
<crimsonmane> is there a live stream? ie, mic broadcast?
<medberry> crimsonmane, no, IRC text. Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jono> 17mins until Matt Zimmerman's Q+A!
<brobo> 13 minutes! :D
 * jcastro taps the mic
<jcastro> 5 minute warning folks!
<brobo> yayz
<jono> folks, tell your friends about the session, tweet, facebook, open the window and shout out if needed
<Omega> Alright!
<jono> hey folks!
<jono> alright let's give it a few mins for late stragglers
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q & A with Matt Zimmerman - Instructors: mdz
<jono> hi everyone, and welcome to another Ubuntu Q+A session!
<jono> today I am delighted to introduce a special guest; someone who has been with Ubuntu since the very beginning, and a person who has always provided strong guidance in the project
<jono> it is of course Matt Zimmerman, also known as mdz, who is the Ubuntu Chief Technical Officer
<jono> Matt is not only CTO, but comes from a long heritage in Debian, and he also has a position on the Ubuntu Technical Board
<jono> so let me explain how this works:
<jono> to ask a question, simple start it with QUESTION. as an example: QUESTION: I read about DEX recently...what is it?
<jono> you can ask the questions and also talk about the session in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jono> ...so without further ado, over to mdz!
<mdz> Hello, everyone!
<mdz> this is the first opportunity I've had to do a session like this in a while, so it's very good to be here
<mdz> as jono mentioned, I've been working on Ubuntu since the very beginning, and with Debian for years before that
<mdz> I'm passionate about free software, and happy to take questions on a wide range of topics
<mdz> though if there are a lot of questions, I'll focus on the ones which are related to Ubuntu itself
<ClassBot> popey asked: Is Ubuntu losing its ideals? With the pre-installation of Ubuntu One, advertising of Landscape on the server, and the request to install non-free software by default (bug 723831), aren't we losing sight of our guiding principles?
<mdz> hi popey :-)
<mdz> my first reaction is that when it comes to ideals, they belong to people, not projects
<mdz> we publish information about our values as a way of communicating what people in the project believe
<mdz> but this is just window dressing
<mdz> what counts is what is in the hearts and minds of the individual people who make up Ubuntu
<mdz> and how we choose to act
<mdz> bug 723831 is certainly not the first time someone has suggested that Ubuntu should include non-free software by default
<mdz> it's been happening since day one
<mdz> because we care about our users, and making their lives easier
<mdz> and it's an objective fact that pre-installing some popular proprietary software would make users' lives easier
<mdz> however
<mdz> we care about more than just short term convenience
<mdz> and we want to keep users' long-term interests in mind as well
<mdz> and we believe that it's important to have the choice
<mdz> and by maintaining a standard for freedom in Ubuntu, we help make it possible for people to have that choice
<mdz> Debian is a fantastic example of this: by holding the line on freedom, they show everyone what's possible with free software, and provide motivation for more free software to be created
<mdz> we want to do the same in Ubuntu
<mdz> but it's not a black and white decision
<mdz> from the beginning, we made the compromise of including proprietary drivers
<mdz> because otherwise, too many people would be unable to use a free operating system at all
<mdz> it wouldn't just be inconvenient, but virtually impossible
<mdz> so we made that compromise
<mdz> we've since been able to remove some of that proprietary software, as free alternatives have become available, and we should continue to re-evaluate what we're doing as the situation changes
<mdz> I do not take this suggestion lightly: it would be a significant shift in our position to install the software referred to in that bug
<mdz> it's only recently come up and the technical board will provide a thorough response to it, given a few round tuits
<mdz> we can come back to the more historical parts of the question later if we have more time. thanks for the question!
<ClassBot> Omega asked: I remember some mention of 'Ubuntu Light,' the optimized version of Ubuntu for OEMs, when will we start seeing Ubuntu Light equipped machines?
<mdz> Ubuntu Light was developed for use as an "instant on" operating system, in a dual-boot configuration (usually alongside Windows)
<mdz> where the main operating system might be slow and cumbersome to bring up *cough*, people felt it would be convenient to have a second OS which was fast to boot, simple to use, and offered basic internet functionality
<mdz> this was a very popular idea at the time, and there were a few companies which sprung up which specialized in this kind of OS
<mdz> but there are tradeoffs: having two operating systems can be awkward, people need ways to share data between them, and it's twice as much work (or more) to get both of them working well on the hardware
<mdz> so while it was very well received in the beginning, there's less demand for such "instant on" operating systems now
<mdz> fortunately, the technical and creative work did not go to waste, and has made its way into things like Ubuntu Netbook Edition and Unity
<mdz> which offer the same kind of simplicity and speed, but have a "full" OS experience, not just a stripped-down one
<mdz> thanks for the question
<ClassBot> Yash asked: SD card readers worked fine with previous versions of ubuntu, but on updating, none work, and USB flashdrives don't automount.  When will that  be fixed? Makes ubuntu less user friendly.
<mdz> I'm sorry to hear that these features aren't working properly for you
<mdz> there are a lot of possible explanations for what could have gone wrong
<mdz> but it is definitely NOT the case that it's because we stopped caring about those things
<mdz> most problems of this kind are specific to a particular computer type or configuration, and can be fixed once we become aware of them
<mdz> for every Ubuntu certified system, we make sure that those things work reliably out of the box
<mdz> but for everything else, we rely on people like you to tell us when it doesn't work, and help diagnose the problem
<mdz> so please report a bug to Launchpad with all of the details
<mdz> I would appreciate if someone would provide more instructions for this in the chat channel
<mdz> thanks!
<ClassBot> shan asked: Redhat recently announced it will undercut kernel patches. How is ubuntu affected?
<mdz> what Red Hat changed was the way that they distribute their kernel patches in Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
<mdz> instead of cleanly separating them out, which makes them easy to share, they have mixed them all together
<mdz> at least, that's what I've read. I haven't looked to see exactly what's changed
<mdz> I don't know if they've made a statement about why they are doing this, and there could be many reasons, so I won't try to guess
<mdz> but as far as Ubuntu, I don't think this affects us really
<mdz> Ubuntu and RHEL are usually on very different kernel versions, and there are other reasons why it might be inconvenient to share patches
<mdz> the kernel team might have more to say about it, but I see no reason to be concerned. Ubuntu's kernel is based on the upstream tree from kernel.org, not on Red Hat's
<ClassBot> gaberlunzie asked: why do text2speech development seem lagging?
<mdz> I'm not too familiar with this area, but I'll give it a shot
<mdz> I learned recently that in Ubuntu 10.10, the screen reader did not fully support installing Ubuntu, as it did in 10.04
<mdz> this is regrettable, and we'll need to do more testing in the future to make sure that it doesn't regress
<mdz> I believe the accessibility team announced earlier this year that there would be more consistent testing during the Natty cycle, so that we would catch problems like this earlier
<mdz> here's a post from a few days ago from Penelope Stowe of the accessibility team which explains some of the plans:
<mdz> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/accessibility-testing-part-i/
<mdz> I hope I've answered the right question :-)
<ClassBot> Omega asked: What do you think about the move away from X11 to Wayland?
<mdz> I think we're still some "way" off from the "land" where we can leave behind X11
<mdz> the X code base may be old, and crufty, and have its limitations, but it provides many essential services we need to run the Ubuntu desktop
<mdz> Wayland is a very interesting project, and we're following it closely
<mdz> but it would be premature to predict such a move, and what the effect would be
<mdz> we love to adopt cool new open source technology, of course, but as always, we should put the needs of users first, and make sure that when we do switch, users continue to have a great experience
<ClassBot> adminjs asked: Why does Ubuntu not support the enterprise better regarding autofs and hooking up to LDAP?
<mdz> Ubuntu gets used in a lot of different settings, from individual home users through large enterprises with many thousands of computers
<mdz> it's even used in some pretty unexpected places, for very specialized and custom computers
<mdz> or things which don't look like computers at all
<mdz> if we try to serve every possible scenario, we will do at best a mediocre job of all of them
<mdz> so we need to make choices
<mdz> there are a lot of factors which influence those choices
<mdz> including what's happening in our upstream projects, who's joining Ubuntu and contributing to it, what kind of business opportunities there are for Canonical, and so on
<mdz> individual contributors, of course, are free to work on whatever is most important to them
<mdz> but where we try to focus a general effort on a particular area, we try to choose the one which will best advance Ubuntu's goals
<mdz> those which will enable Ubuntu to make the biggest difference, for the greatest number of people
<mdz> as you can imagine, this isn't an exact science
<mdz> doing anything well requires a deep investment of attention, and there's only so much to go around
<mdz> there are plenty of great ideas out there
<mdz> and taken individually, it's easy to say "of course that's a great idea!"
<mdz> and it is!
<mdz> but collectively, we can't do justice to all of the good ideas, and we need to make choices
<mdz> we need to be disciplined, and try to take on challenges that we are willing to work hard at and do well
<mdz> not just do the minimum needed
<mdz> enterprises come in different shapes and sizes. the word means different things to different peolpe
<mdz> to you, it means autofs and LDAP. to another person, it might mean thin clients, or the ability to lock down configurations, or the ability to use Windows applications, etc.
<mdz> so these aren't simple yes/no answers
<mdz> to do a good job, we need to deeply understand the user and what their requirements are
<mdz> and that's a case we haven't spent too much time on
<mdz> perhaps that's a long-winded answer to a short question, but I hope I've done it justice :-)
<ClassBot> Spyder asked: I am a user of a netbook. Ubuntu thought the netbook niche important enough to release a targeted version, however it seems that one of the largest problems was a lot of core UI windows were still too large for the screens. Is the netbook niche market still a concern for the project? And if so, will this be addressed?
<mdz> there is a lot of talk about netbooks being "dead", and we don't see a lot of new product launches happening in this area
<mdz> but meanwhile there are still a lot of netbooks being sold
<mdz> I use a Dell mini 10v when I'm traveling, and the form factor is very convenient
<mdz> but you're right, there are applications which aren't so well suited for use on a netbook
<mdz> for reasons of performance, or user interface considerations
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<mdz> we do still care about netbook users, and one of the principles behind Unity was to maximize the available screen space for applications
<mdz> we may not be able to fix every application in Ubuntu to fit on every netbook
<mdz> but with a bit of bug fixing, and perhaps slightly larger screens becoming cheaper over time, I think this problem will sort itself out
<mdz> where you're aware of specific problems, please do file them in Launchpad so that we can track them, though we can't guarantee they will be addressed in a specific time frame
<ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Why did you join Canonical?
<mdz> I didn't technically join Canonical, because at the time I joined, it didn't have a name yet :-)
<mdz> I joined because it seemed like an incredible opportunity to advance free software
<mdz> it had the potential to reach so many people, and that was inspiring
<mdz> it was also a chance to work with some very talented people, who I respected from their work in the free software community
<mdz> I was also interested in the idea of a partnership between a company and a community, and how these two paradigms could work in harmony
<mdz> this has obviously been a great challenge as the company and project have grown!
<mdz> thanks for the question
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> shan asked: I noticed that Natty is going to have enhanced chroot support. How different it is from debootstrap?
<mdz> I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here, but I think you might be talking about LXC
<mdz> if so, LXC is a container system, which allows you to have a chroot which is a bit more like a virtual machine
<mdz> chroot only affects the filesystem, but LXC "contains" other aspects of the system, like the process table, network namespace, etc.
<mdz> if that's not what you meant, sorry :-)
<ClassBot> cmrd_ asked: i'm intersted in developing applications for ubuntu but i have a little knowledge of C programming lang can anyone suggest me how do i proceed in order to develop apps.
<mdz> short answer: ask rickspencer3 about quickly!
<ClassBot> digikwondo asked: first of all, <3 ubuntu and open source, ubuntu studio made it possible to record my bands first demo and now we are working on our first album all mixed with help of the open source hackers and community!! Now the question. What is your main motivation for working with open source and why did you choose the ubuntu dist ?;)
<mdz> first of all, awesome!
<mdz> I'm a musician myself and love to hear about people making music with Ubuntu
<mdz> I spoke about my motivation for joining Canonical earlier, but more generally for open source...
<mdz> I work with free software because I'm fascinated by two things: technology and people
<mdz> open source is an opportunity to work deeply in both areas, and in the intersection between them
<mdz> software, hardware, communities, social issues...
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<mdz> I guess I'm done :-)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<crimsonmane> thank you mdz
<mdz> crimsonmane, my pleasure!
<skirlou> exit
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-03-12
<Myrtti> just testing everything works :-P
<Myrtti> if you're planning to attend todays "IRC and irssi basics for Ubuntu IRC ops", please poke me in pm or email if you are planning to attend so I can set up channel flags beforehand in the sandpit channel so that you can actually play and try out the commands and we don't need to waste our time on waiting for me to give everyone who plans to attend the flags then. Thank you!
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  I have sent you a mail
<Myrtti> itmannen: noted and acted on
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  Very good :)
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  What time ? Tonight ?
<Myrtti> 54 minutes
<itmannen> Ok. Thanks
<pmatulis> darn, forgot about the time change
<pmatulis> -4 now
<ubuntu-uhri> @now UTC
<meetingology> ubuntu-uhri: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
<Myrtti> boo.
<Myrtti> anyway, ubottu has it.
<dax> You don't all have your IRC clients in UTC? How do you survive?
<pmatulis> that's a very good idea
<Fuchs> being able to do simple math without any tools
<Fuchs> I know you are unable to do that, dax :)
<Myrtti> UTC is timestamp -2 :-P
<Myrtti> it's not rocket science
<Fuchs> dax: also, if you would use a better DE, you would have a nice mouse hover on the clock which gives you UTC :>
<dax> Myrtti: daylight savings time
<dax> Fuchs: This way, I have both on-screen at once
<dax> Myrtti: also, this way my logs don't randomly jump back an hour
<Myrtti> I'm a slave of my habits
<Myrtti> sorry :-P
<dax> unacceptable, dissent is not allowed, all users must conform to my irssi settings
<Fuchs> hahahahaha
<Fuchs> no.
<Myrtti> if you're planning to attend todays "IRC and irssi basics for Ubuntu IRC ops" in fifteen or so minutes, please poke me in pm or email if you are planning to attend so I can set up channel flags beforehand in the sandpit channel so that you can actually play and try out the commands and we don't need to waste our time on waiting for me to give everyone who plans to attend the flags then. Thank you!
<AlanBell> evening
<itmannen> 5 min left ?
<Myrtti> approximately yes.
<itmannen> Ok
<Rcart> please join #ubuntu-classroom-chat for comments (:
<itmannen> Ok
<Myrtti> if you've got nickserv account, now is the time to identify
<Myrtti> if you don't now is the time to register
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Introduction to being an IRC Operator - Instructors: Myrtti
<Myrtti> if you don't want to, that's ok, but a bit more messy
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Myrtti> alright then
<Myrtti> There will be times when I'll be inviting questions, but feel free to ask any time if you need help. You can ask your question either on this channel, or in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.
<Myrtti> If you've not yet msg'd me with the NICKSERV accountname you're using, or asked to have a hostmask added to our sandpit channel, now is the time to do it, so we can get you all set.
<Myrtti> Also, if you notice a mistake in what I'm teaching to others or you have a suggestion on how to do things better, feel free to ask!
<Myrtti> hi, I'm Myrtti, or Miia Ranta, and I've been an IRC addict since 1996. I started using IRC with mIRC in IRCnet, and have gradually moved up in the networks and ranks and am currently op in many Ubuntu IRC channels, and member of freenode staff.
<Myrtti> We will expand this class into how to do all the dirty work quickly and easily with irssi and tmux so if you're planning to do that, you can first start tmux, and then start irssi inside it.
<Myrtti> If you're planning to you some other client, like XChat, connect to freenode with the GUI tools, or wait a few minutes and I'll show how you can connect with the commands. I'll come back to how you can autoidentify to NickServ later on. I know many people like to use pidgin or other clients for IRC, but things are considerably easier if you use either irssi or XChat. Bitlbee can help you in the conversion from Pidgin/Empathy to a ...
<Myrtti> ... proper IRC client, and you can ask about it later on, I can help with it a bit and I'm sure there's plenty of others who can help with it better than I can.
<Myrtti> So let's start with the lesson!
<Myrtti> Once you have started irssi (with or without screen or tmux), you can set your nickname with
<Myrtti> /set nick yournickname
<Myrtti> alternate nick with
<Myrtti> /set alternate_nick youralternate
<Myrtti> and your real name with
<Myrtti> /set real_name Your Name
<Myrtti> you can save the changes you've done to a config file by issuing
<Myrtti> /save
<Myrtti> just to get you going quickly connected into freenode either with irssi or XChat, type
<Myrtti> /connect irc.freenode.net
<Myrtti> most clients accept and use /server irc.freenode.net
<Myrtti> if you chose to use a nickname you already own, you can identify with
<Myrtti> /msg nickserv identify accountname password
<Myrtti> I'll return to other NickServ commands later on. I'm not going to tell you how to register your nickname on freenode as you probably have done it already.
<Myrtti> You can now join channels with /join, in irssi you can issue multiple channels in one command, separating the channel names with commas. If the channel has a passkey, it is easier to enter that channel on it's own join command.
<Myrtti> /join #ubuntu,#ubuntu-sandpit,#ubuntu-classroom
<Myrtti> in case you missed it, the sandpit channel where you will be able to play is #ubuntu-sandpit.
<Myrtti> please wait before starting to kickban people, as fun as it may be it isn't yet time for it :-)
<Myrtti> you can leave one or more channels in a similar way that you joined, and you enter a message too
<Myrtti> /part #ubuntu,#ubuntu-sandpit,#ubuntu-classroom so long and thanks for all the fish
<Myrtti> ubuntu-uhri will demonstrate
<Myrtti> and quit your client, including a quit message
<Myrtti> /quit farewell cruel world
<Myrtti> for more help, you can either ask me or use the inbuilt help command
<Myrtti> /help
<Myrtti> You can swap between windows using Meta (Alt or Esc) combined with 1, 2, 3, 4 etc, followed by q, w, e, r etc for window numbers beyond 10. You can scroll the text with page up and page down.
<Myrtti> fortunately I have no experience on AZERTY keyboards :-P
<Myrtti> Private messages can be started with
<Myrtti> /query nick
<Myrtti> or
<Myrtti> /msg nick message
<Myrtti> any questions so far?
<itmannen> No
<dax> If you are using another keyboard layout, there are scripts for some to change irssi's keybindings for windows. See for example http://scripts.irssi.org/html/keybinds.pl.html for azerty
<Sidewinder1> Nah, you're doin' a great job!
<Myrtti> thank you dax â¥
<Myrtti> Now that we've got IRC basics covered, let's go to op basics. Before we start the actual business, some philosophical reminders about the job.
<Myrtti> Escalation and catalysing are important things to remember. Person who breaks the guidelines should be warned first, and from there on the actions should be slowly be escalated if no reasonable result isn't achieved. Usually the route goes by *warning* -> *mute* -> *remove* -> *removeban*.
<Myrtti> Freenode philosophy has an excellent essay about catalyzing, I wholeheartedly suggest everyone should read it. http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
<Myrtti> and before someone of my staff colleagues slaps me on the fingers, I take the blame for mistyping freenode with a capital f.
<Myrtti> mea culpa.
<Myrtti> The main point to be remembered is that mute/remove/ban isn't supposed to be considered a punishment, but rather a way of preventing more harm done. It should be possible for every single ban to be negotiated and resolved, if not by an op, then by the escalation process.
<Myrtti> Remember: Everything that applies for normal user applies for supporter https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines. Everything that applies for supporter of the channels applies for you https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide.
<Myrtti> And most of all, both the normal and Leadership Code of Conduct applies to you the operator as well. http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct and http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/leadership-conduct. Behave accordingly. This session will not go into depth with these documents, so we'll move on to the actual training part.
<Myrtti> Just a reminder, if you're not yet in the sandpit channel, you can join with issuing /join #ubuntu-sandpit
<Myrtti> please msg me your nickserv accountname if you want to play :-)
<Myrtti> as mentioned by dax in -chat, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines is also relevant in the context of being an Ubuntu op.
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  itmannen
<Myrtti> so, any questions so far? itmannen?
<itmannen> No. I understand what you type so far
<bkerensa> :)
<Myrtti> no?
<Myrtti> let's continue then.
<Myrtti> As per freenode recommendations, the IRC team has advised to op up (and stay opped) only when needed. This encourages users to not to ask for support specifically from the ops (in PM or publicly) and atleast in theory will facilitate non-op users to catalyse situations equally to the actual ops, creating a more equal atmosphere.
<Myrtti> At the end of the lesson I will give a few aliases on how to automate opping up/down for certain commands. There are also scripts that will do the same functionality. About those later on. Now for the actual commands. You can now op up on the sandpit channel
<Myrtti> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-sandpit nickname
<Myrtti> if you're not able to, the flags aren't set to allow you to do so.
<Myrtti> anyone having trouble?
<Sidewinder1> Yes!
<Sidewinder1> X_Chat..
<Myrtti> Sidewinder1: try now?
<Sidewinder1> K
<Sidewinder1> #ubuntu-sandpit :You're not a channel operator
<Sidewinder1> -
<Myrtti> now you are - I opped you - let's move on
<Sidewinder1> Thanks.
<Myrtti> Let's follow the escalation route and start with mute. Mute is a way to prevent users from sending to channel and/or others from seeing the text they send. Mute can be set with
<Myrtti> /mode +q nickname*!*@*
<Myrtti> you can use ubuntu-uhri as a helpless victim for your practice
<itmannen> #ubuntu-classroom :You're not a channel operator
<Myrtti> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-sandpit nickname
<Myrtti> you should be able to
<itmannen>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-sandpit itmannen
<Myrtti> This prevents the user from sending messages to the channel. If the channelmodes include +z, then people opped can see what the muted say. We will return on what all the bits are on the command we used later on when we discuss bans more.
<Myrtti> Some of you may be familiar with /kick - in Ubuntu IRC channels we usually use remove command. Some IRC clients, like irssi, don't include this command at all, and so you have to give it as a direct command to the server with /quote. Thus, instead of /kick we use /quote remove.
<Myrtti> Remove is used for few reasons, the most important one being that usually IRC clients do not include so-called "autorejoin on kick"-functionality. As the old proverb of the jungle says: "Kick is not an invite" - If we've decided to remove you from the channel for one reason or another, it is unlikely that things change in the split second you've rejoined.
<Myrtti> Combined with a kick or remove, ban is the next up tool. Bans are set up just like quiets are, but as ban is available in all networks, users know how to bypass it by changing their nicknames and rejoining the channel. This is known as banevasion, and it's bad enough to be prohibited by freenode TOS.
<Myrtti> If a banevader is cloaked and is persistant enough in evasion, freenode may revoke their cloak and/or not issue a cloak as it would be possible to use the cloak as a tool of banevasion. Your client should know how to set bans based on only nicknames by using /ban command.
<Myrtti> /ban nickname
<Myrtti> this should work atleast in irssi - someone is undoubtedly going to correct me if it doesn't for other clients
<Myrtti> other way of expressing bans is the traditional mode +b
<pipedream> can you explain more about "cloak" ?
<Fuchs> pipedream: a cloak overrides the real host of the user. It is the part right of the @
<Fuchs> pipedream: see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<Myrtti> so cloaks are the bit that can hide your hostname or ip address
<Fuchs> pipedream: usually you have  nick!ident@host  (which Myrtti will explain), the cloak will override the host part
<Myrtti> it can be used as either a way just to hide your hostname part, or to show your affiliation to a project, and often by that rights to certain actions on channels.
<Myrtti> Bans are set more generally against a hostmask, that is: nickname!username@hostmask, or more seldomly against a username or a realname. We will touch only the most common usecase of the aforementioned kind, if you need to ban someone by username or realname, ask for help when the need arises. When using a hostmask for banning people, please use appropriate * or ? wildcards.
<Myrtti> For example, nickname*!*username@hostmask, nickname*!*@hostmask, *!*@hostmask, or different ip ranges. Cloaks can be wildcarded the same way IP addresses and hostmasks can, for example *!*@dsl-hkibrasgw*.dhcp.inet.fi would ban everyone connecting to IRC from the Helsinki gateway of Sonera, one of the biggest ISP's in Finland, while *!*@*.staffs.ac.uk bans everyone from Staffordshire University.
<Myrtti> When using wildcards, try to include the smallest possible range that you think will prevent the user from evading their ban. If you do end up setting a ban on a large range of addresses then make it a banforward to #ubuntu-ops or #ubuntu-irc, or similar so anyone accidentally caught by it can be helped around it.
<Jordan_U> Myrtti: Why nickname*!*username@hostmaks and not just nickname!username@hostmask?
<Myrtti> One thing to worth noting is the username field, the *!username@* part. If it does not start with a tilde ~, the user connects from a computer or server running identd. identd operates by looking up specific TCP/IP connections and returning the user name of the process owning the connection. In those cases the user can't change the username on their clients and it is safe to assume that while they are connecting from that ...
<Myrtti> ... machine, their username stays the same.
<pipedream> what is a "banforward"?
<Myrtti> pipedream: it will come later on
<Myrtti> Jordan_U: because the most common way of changing your nick is appending it with _
<Jordan_U> Myrtti: Thanks.
<Myrtti> and the * is explained by the above ident tilde
<Myrtti> in the ident field
<Myrtti> any more questions?
<Myrtti> Banforwards are used to guide users to other channels. Their main uses in Ubuntu IRC channels are to guide people to the #ubuntu-ops channel, or if a user has a client that is misbehaving disruptively (disconnecting and rejoining channel on quick succession in a way which is disturbing the discussion or channel itself) to ##fix_your_connection.
<Myrtti> Banforwards are set just like normal bans, but at the end of the banmask the channel you want the user to be forwarded to is appended by $<channelname>, for example $#ubuntu-ops. Since some clients use autorejoin on kick, this is one of the usecases where using kick instead of remove is valid. Just remember to set the banforward *before* kicking. The banforwards are set with
<Myrtti> /mode +b nick!username@hostmask$##fix_your_connection
<Myrtti> [22:47] *** ubuntu-uhri [~myrtti@unaffiliated/myrtti/bot/ubuntu-uhri] has joined  ##fix_your_connection
<Myrtti> If you are forwarding someone to ##fix_your_connection, please join the channel yourself to see when their connection stabilises.
<Myrtti> Run-by-trolling/spamming attack participants can be unbanned after few hours without discussing it with them, as nicknames, usernames and often ip's are throwaway ones or drone machines and they are unlikely to be used again, and freenode usually responds to big scale multiple channel attacks with K-lines (network bans). It is important to try to keep the ban list as short as possible. Otherwise, unbanning should be done only ...
<Myrtti> ... after discussing with the banned person and telling them why they were removed and banned from the channels, either in PM or #ubuntu-ops, #ubuntu-irc or whichever channel you use for your ban arbitration. Unbanning can be done with
<Myrtti> /mode -b nickname!username@hostmask
<Myrtti> ie. reversing the command the ban was set with.
<Myrtti> you might have guessed that unmuting is -q :-)
<Myrtti> There is a bit more to being an op, but usually those situations are such that more than one operator are present and can help you. Please do ask for help when you need it.
<Myrtti> You can unop yourself with two methods, one by doing it directly yourself and the other by asking chanserv to do it.
<Myrtti> /mode -o nickname
<Myrtti> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-sandpit -nickname
<Myrtti> Questions, please of help, "omg I'm banned in the sandpit and I can't help it"?
<Myrtti> pleas, even
<Sidewinder1> I took Ops, then removed Ops; now, I can't seem to take Ops anymore? ;-(
<Myrtti> true, that's because the flags are a bit wonky, but that doesn't really matter too much now
<Sidewinder1> NP.
<Myrtti> let's continue then.
<Myrtti> During the years of being an op in Ubuntu IRC channels, I've used both scripts and aliases to interface with nickserv and chanserv and to perform the ops tasks. For years I've used only aliases instead of scripts as I can better monitor and fix what they do. These aliases are for irssi, but you can modify them for XChat quite easily. There are some instructions on how in https://toxin.jottit.com/xchat_user_commands, irssi $C is ...
<Rcart> Myrtti: How freenode keeps track of all user (banned, removed) states?
<Myrtti> ... %c in XChat, irssi $N is %n in XChat, $0 is %1 in XChat and so on. Quassel has the similar mechanics and most other good IRC clients as well, but I will not discuss them here. Please share your information on them in -chat, I'll mention it in the end of the session.
<Myrtti> Rcart: you mean serverside? magic and unicorns. I'm fresh to the job so I've not done a deep plunge into how services and ircd works.
<LetoThe2nd> notice: i set +b on myself, but i stayed in the channel. due to special situation that is?
<Rcart> Myrtti: yes, about that.
<Myrtti> LetoThe2nd: no, you can be banned and stay on the channel
<dax> bans stop you from joining the channel. they don't stop you from being in it.
<LetoThe2nd> dax: ah.
<dax> (they also stop you from talking, like +q)
<Myrtti> you need to be removed by /quote remove or /kick or leave yourself, then you can't join it back
<Myrtti> or what dax said.
<LetoThe2nd> understood
<bkerensa> I am following along in silence fyi
<Myrtti> continuing on the aliases
<Myrtti> I have posted these aliases on my website and I'll give the link after I've explained them here first and finished the tutorial.
<Myrtti> /alias NS /^msg nickserv
<Myrtti> How do aliases work? Alias sets a shortcode for combining or renaming commands. For example this one creates an alias called NS, which is /^msg nickserv - /^msg directs the command in irssi to the statuswindow (window 1) and doesn't log the messages if you've set to log all your private messages.
<Myrtti> /^msg is an irssi specific command though, other users might want to use /msg instead of it
<Myrtti> I'll skip some aliases that are in the files as they are quite selfexplanatory
<dax> (/ns and /nickserv are also available as server-side commands, so clients that pass unknown commands to the server (which is most of them, not including irssi) will work with them by default)
<Myrtti> aw, I should have let you read the script :-P
<dax> oops, sorry
<Myrtti> oh well.
<Myrtti> no, good comment
<Myrtti> I'm ignoramus on other clients
<Myrtti> /alias BANS /mode +b;/mode +q
<Myrtti> this command lists all the bans and quiets on the channel you are on, if you're allowed to see them by the channel flags.
<Myrtti> /alias BANSEARCH /msg ubottu @bansearch
<Myrtti> /alias BANLOGIN /msg ubottu @login;/msg ubottu @btlogin
<Myrtti> if you've got access to ubottu's ban database, you might find these aliases useful. First one searches the database, but isn't too reliable. The latter combines both login commands, the one you need for the bot to recognise you and the second which gives you a link to the bantracker.
<Myrtti> /alias CS /msg chanserv
<Myrtti> /alias CSHELP /msg chanserv help
<Myrtti> /alias CSACCESS /msg chanserv access $C list
<Myrtti> this command gives you the access list of the channel you are on
<Myrtti> given you have flags for viewing it.
<Myrtti> /alias CSOP /msg chanserv op $C $0
<Myrtti> this command is short for the command that we used in the beginning of the session to op up or if given a nickname in the end, someone else. Usage:
<Myrtti> /csop nickname
<Myrtti> /alias CSDEOP /msg chanserv op $C -$0
<Myrtti> and this is the the deop command
<Myrtti> /alias CSMODE /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/mode $0;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> this command will help you set channelmodes, if mlock isn't set
<Myrtti> /alias CSINVITE /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/invite $0;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> will invite someone to a channel you're on, if you're an op
<Myrtti> /alias CSTOPIC /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/topic $0-;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> and this will help you change the topic. Please see /cshelp TOPICAPPEND and TOPICPREPEND for other ways of getting ChanServ help you with setting the topic.
<Myrtti> /alias CSMUTE /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/mode +zq $0;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> this alias helps you mute
<Myrtti> /alias CSREMOVE /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/quote remove $C $0 :$1-;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> /alias CSREMOVEBAN /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/quote remove $C $0 :$1-;/ban $0;/msg chanserv op $C -$N
<Myrtti> Remove and Removeban aliases are used with:
<Myrtti> /csremove nickname reason
<Myrtti> /csremoveban nickname reason
<Myrtti> /alias CSR /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/quote remove $C $0 :Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess if you feel mistreated;/msg chanserv op  $C -$N
<Myrtti> /alias CSRB /msg chanserv op $C $N;/wait 2000;/quote remove $C $0 :Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess if you feel mistreated;/ban $0;/msg chanserv op  $C -$N
<Myrtti> these already have the kickreason, please feel free to change them accordingly to suit your needs.
<Myrtti> Note that there are no quickaliases for unbanning, unmuting or doing banforwards. I've found it better to do them by hand.
<Myrtti> irssi aliases: http://myrtti.fi/irssialiases
<Myrtti> xchat aliases: http://myrtti.fi/xchataliases
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, 404 eqivalent errors on xchat
<EvilResistance> xchataliases*
<Myrtti> alright, I'll have a look
<Fuchs> http://myrtti.fi/xchatalias  looks better
<EvilResistance> yep
<Myrtti> please refresh it
<Myrtti> I had forgotten I was still hacking some fixes into it.
<LetoThe2nd> a short explaination on the parameters in the alias?
<EvilResistance> LetoThe2nd, in which, irssi or xchat?
<LetoThe2nd> e.g. $C $N, and so on
<EvilResistance> ah
<LetoThe2nd> EvilResistance: irssi preferred
<Myrtti> N is nick, C is channel you're on
<LetoThe2nd> ah, $01, $1 is bash style?
<LetoThe2nd> $0, $1, even
<Myrtti> 0 and 1 in irssi and 1 and 2 in xchat are the next parameters
<Myrtti> yes.
<EvilResistance> in xchat, its % though
<LetoThe2nd> understood, thanks
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, ^
<EvilResistance> (restating the earlier statements)
<Myrtti> EvilResistance: which is why there is two files with different aliases
<Myrtti> one for irssi and one for xchat
<EvilResistance> mhm
<EvilResistance> hmm... Myrtti, where're you getting /alias from in xchat?
<EvilResistance> there's no command stored for that
<Myrtti> hm.
<EvilResistance> last i checked, you had to write custom scripting for aliases, or use their "User commands" thingy, which isnt as dynamic as irssi aliases
 * EvilResistance actively uses xchat
<Myrtti> https://toxin.jottit.com/xchat_user_commands has the instructions for it
<EvilResistance> mhm
<EvilResistance> FYI though: its not 100% reliable though
<Myrtti> sorry, there is no direct or easy way of doing them.
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, indeed ;P
<Myrtti> USE IRSSI. ahem.
<Myrtti> :-P
<EvilResistance> :P
<Myrtti> Now we're moving to irssi only area of this tutorial. If you choose to drop off at this point, thank you for the questions and interest, and hope to see you soon in an Ubuntu IRC channel near you :-)
<Myrtti> I'd still recommend you'd stay, for fun and profit.
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  Can I have both xchat and irssi open
<Fuchs> itmannen: you can have multiple connections to freenode, yes. Note that nicks are unique, though
<Fuchs> itmannen: you could use a bouncer to connect with several clients to the same user
<itmannen> I am nobe on irssi
<itmannen> Fuchs<<  ok
<Myrtti> Some useful scripts for irssi that I've used for years are available in the "irssi-scripts" package and some need to be downloaded from scripts.irssi.org or other websites. To enable scripts to autorun when irssi is launched, download / symlink them to .irssi/scripts/autorun
<Pricey> irssi-proxy in screen ftw
<Fuchs> itmannen: having a bouncer might be helpful anyway if you are not using irssi on a server in screen or so, if you need logs or have other reasons for staying connected 24/7
<Myrtti> If you want to manually load them, use /script load <path to the script>
<itmannen> Fuchs<<  Aha. Good
<Myrtti> splitlong.pl
<Myrtti> splits the entered text to snippets long enough not to get cut off and into multiple messages
<Myrtti> trackbar.pl
<Myrtti> draws a line of characters where the discussion was left when window was changed
<Myrtti> autoaway.pl
<Myrtti> sets away after a certain time idling
<Myrtti> screen_away.pl/tmux_away.pl
<Myrtti> sets away after detaching from screen/tmux session. Tmux version is available in http://cybione.org/~cdidier/code/misc/tmux_away.pl
<Myrtti> cap_sasl
<Myrtti> enables identifying with SASL. Available from http://freenode.net/sasl/cap_sasl.pl - We will return to this later on
<Myrtti> nickcolor.pl/format_identify.pl
<Myrtti> colours the nicks with different colours. Format identify does all that, *and* differentiates those who are identified from those who aren't.
<Myrtti> noisy_query.pl
<Myrtti> notifies you on the window you're in that you've got a new query, and notifies who it is with
<Myrtti> autowhois.pl
<Myrtti> automatically whoises whoever starts a query with you.
<Myrtti> Now that you've got basics figured out, here's some extra information about irssi that you might find useful.
<Myrtti> Please have a look at
<Myrtti> /set
<Myrtti> It contains several different settings you can have in your irssi.
<Myrtti> when you change the settings, always remember to save them with /save.
<Myrtti> try not to edit the configuration file by hand if you can help it.
<Myrtti> you can change how even some scripts work with /set
<Myrtti> You can move window order in irssi with
<Myrtti> /window move <number>
<Myrtti> so they are in the order you'd like them to be in.
<Myrtti> you can save the layout for later on with
<Myrtti> /layout save
<Myrtti> If you've got more than 20 windows, you might find it helpful to add the keybindings listed at http://niklas.laxstrom.name/page/eng/irssi - it allows easy window swapping up to 100 windows.
<silverlion> o/
<Unit193> There is also /win num to swap the windows.
 * itmannen_ testing irssi. Sorry
<Myrtti> You can change how your irssi looks like by changing your terminal colour scheme and changing the theme irssi is using. Themes with screenshots can be found in http://irssi.org/themes - there are few that I've made or modified (but the ones on the website are a bit old, if you like mine, I'm happy to send you a copy). You can change the theme to a one you've downloaded into your .irssi directory by typing
<Myrtti> /set theme name_of_the_theme.theme
<Myrtti> remember to /save :-)
<Myrtti> any questions so far?
<dax> pink detected
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<Myrtti> It's easy to search for a word in the buffer
<Myrtti> /lastlog word
<Myrtti> /lastlog is aliased to last, and it can be used for casesensetive search, regexps, pass the log to a file etc. Use /help lastlog for more information. You can clear the screen from /lastlog output with /lastlog -clear
<Myrtti> If you've got something in your awaylog or elsewhere you want to see the context of, you can see if it is still in your buffer and move to certain timespot on that, you can use /scrollback, which is aliased to /sb
<itmannen_> Myrtti: Where can I download themes
<Myrtti> /sb goto 08:00
<Myrtti> moves the scrollback to timestamp 08:00, and
<Myrtti> /sb end
<Myrtti> returns you back to the latest happenings
<Myrtti> itmannen_: you can download themes at http://irssi.org/themes
<itmannen> Thanks
<Myrtti> and download them to your .irssi directory
<itmannen> Ok
<Myrtti> the link to the actual theme file is underneath the thumbnail
<Myrtti> any questions so far?
<itmannen> Yes. a lot :D
<itmannen> Go ahead
<Myrtti> you can btw return to this classroom material later on as the logs will be published.
<itmannen> Good
<Myrtti> so if you think you've not noticed something the logs will be there
<Myrtti> we'll be moving on to a bit more difficult area which even I can't claim to master.
<silverlion> one question ... as an op, do we have to use irssi or can we choose whatever client we want?
<Myrtti> you can use whatever client you want which you can actually use to perform your ops duties
<dax> Most dedicated IRC clients support all the functions you'd need to op. Some of them are more efficient at it than others.
<silverlion> dax: pls state some examples? i am very happy with x-chat so far
<dax> silverlion: of good or bad ones?
<Myrtti> xchat, irssi, quassel are I think the most popular ones
<silverlion> dax: either side ;)
<itmannen> Myrtti<<  Why is irrsi a btter client for you
<Myrtti> itmannen: we can discuss that later on
<itmannen> ok
<dax> silverlion: I've seen ops and/or staffers competently using xchat, irssi, weechat, quassel, konversation, kvirc
<Fuchs> silverlion: Pidgin and any other IM client you can imagine as bad ones
<Myrtti> silverlion: pidgin and empathy aren't dedicated IRC clients and I wouldn't recommend their usage for any serious IRC unless you've got a massive streak of masochism.
<Fuchs> silverlion: also bitchx (which fortunately is dead) as a bad one
<dax> (for what it's worth, I've heard empathy folks say the same thing. it's not that Empathy is crap, it's that IRC is not what it's designed for)
<Myrtti> oh yes, let's not go to that, I'll start ranting about away messages.
<Myrtti> anyway
<Fuchs> Myrtti: maybe a small note on IRC behaviour would not be bad, including away nicks and -messages ;)
<silverlion> as i am tied to linux for the next few weeks (my main computer is sent in for maintenance) i'll think about using x-chat
<Myrtti> Fuchs: let's not. I have nothing polite to say and we're running out of time
<Fuchs> silverlion: XChat is fine, just don't use XChat-Gnome
<Fuchs> Myrtti: okay, sorry :)
<Myrtti> so - the part that I'm not so familiar with and I can't personally help you with too much
<Myrtti> I've had to do it only once and I don't plan to do it again on my irssi for a while...
<Myrtti> If you are running your irssi on a relatively new Ubuntu installation, you've already got some settings in. However, it might be wiser to do it properly from scratch instead of playing on the defaults. I'll assume that you want also the safest and recommended way of connecting to freenode too, so we'll add a few bits. If you're the admin of your server, you should be able to install the extra bits and pieces to enable SSL and ...
<Myrtti> ... SASL. On Ubuntu the relevant packages are ca-certificates libcrypt-blowfish-perl libcrypt-dh-perl libcrypt-openssl-bignum-perl libmath-bigint-gmp-perl. If you can't install the packages with the package management, you can try to install them with CPAN: Crypt::Blowfish Crypt::DH Crypt::OpenSSL::Bignum Math::BigInt Math::BigInt::FastCalc Math::BigInt::GMP - if you need to use CPAN, you still need to check you've got the needed ...
<Myrtti> ... certificates.
<dax> (for the Debian folks, the package names are the same)
<Myrtti> I have no experience on this part at all - I run my irssi on a hosted server and all I needed to do was to email to the admins and ask them pull the Debian packages
<Myrtti> We've connected using /server earlier, but let's start from the bottom up.
<Myrtti> Download the script to your .irssi/scripts
<Myrtti> make a symbolic link into .irssi/scripts/autorun/cap_sasl.pl
<Myrtti> and let's first check that we've got the script loaded, with
<Myrtti> /script load cap_sasl.pl
<Myrtti> or
<Myrtti> /script load autorun/cap_sasl.pl
<Myrtti> and set the script up with
<Myrtti> /sasl set Freenode registerednickname password DH-BLOWFISH
<Myrtti> /sasl save
<Myrtti> /save
<Myrtti> MAKE SURE YOU ISSUE THE COMMANDS IN THE STATUS WINDOW - at /w 1
<Myrtti> now is the time to reveal a weakness in irssi
<dax> (I note that "registerednickname" must be your nickserv accountname, not another grouped nick)
<Myrtti> irssi uses a plaintext config file, and if you've got autosendcmd or server password for your nickserv account identifications, they will be in plain text. Likewise the sasl password will be in a plaintext file
<Myrtti> if you want more security and are running irssi on your own machine/shell, have a look at http://pthree.org/2012/02/28/encrypt-your-irssi-config/
<Myrtti> it's not pretty or optimal though.
<Myrtti> once you're past this stage, the script loads nicely etc. we can continue
<Myrtti> now we can start configuring irssi the way we'd normally configure it
<Myrtti> first by adding a network
<Myrtti> /network add freenode
<Myrtti> for more options please see /help network, and then add a server to it with
<Myrtti> /server add -auto -ssl -ssl_verify -ssl_capath /etc/ssl/certs -network freenode irc.freenode.net 7000
<Myrtti> this adds a server, which connects automatically using ssl certificates in /etc/ssl/certs, to the network freenode, at address irc.freenode.net at port 7000. To add channels, issue
<Myrtti> /channel add -auto #ubuntu freenode
<Myrtti> which adds channel #ubuntu in freenode to be joined automatically.
<Myrtti> /save
<Myrtti> to save the settings to a file.
<Myrtti> If you've set up your client the way instructed here, you can now enter the aliases in the link http://myrtti.fi/irssialiases and they work no matter how many networks you've got your irssi connecting to.
<Myrtti> any questions?
<Myrtti> (I can try to answer questions, but I probably can't help you installing the dependencies for cap_sasl.pl to work, sorry)
<itmannen> I try later on
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, cap_sasl.pl exists for xchat, works OOTB except on Windows.  Also, see privmsg.
<Myrtti> Windows is our special snowflake
<EvilResistance> mmm, you'd be surprised how many ubuntuers get stuck on Windows due to drive failures :/
<Myrtti> I'll have a few words about screen and tmux. They are meant to keep your processes and programmes alive even if you end your session in a TTY or ssh. Byobu is moving from screen to using tmux and I've also found tmux to give better results even if used only for irssi management, as UTF-8 characters that might cause trouble are shown better with tmux.
<itmannen> Windows ? What is that ? :)
<Myrtti> I won't go into further details in this session than mentioning that if you have an access to a linux machine that is on 24/7 and you can ssh into, be it a shell server hosted by your friends, a shell account provider, an old box you keep running all the time or a dedicated device, NSLU-2/Viglen MPC-L or similar, this might be a good way to do your IRCing. irssi can handle several server connections and windows up to 1000, ...
<Myrtti> ... although it is a bit painful at that time.
<Myrtti> If you are using screen, you can detach your session with ctrl-a-d. You can reattach it with
<Myrtti> screen -x -- this attaches the session to where you are issuing the command now, but if it's open elsewhere, keeps it open there as well
<Myrtti> screen -dr -- this deattaches the ongoing session if such exists and reattaches in where you're issuing the command
<Myrtti> screen -Dr -- this deattaches the ongoing session *and* disconnects SSH connection if such exists and reattaches in where you're issuing the command. Perfect if you're paranoid over if you remembered to disconnect the SSH.
<Myrtti> If you are using tmux, you can detach your session with ctrl-b. If you've got an Android phone, I strongly suggest you change the keybinding for that to the same as what screen uses, as the best Android SSH client for irssi usage has shortcuts for screen keycombos.
<Myrtti> (irssi connectbot, which also has a channel on freenode - unsurprisingly #irssiconnectbot)
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<Myrtti> My .tmux.conf file is
<Myrtti> set -g prefix C-a
<Myrtti> set -g status off
<Myrtti> set -g detach-on-destroy on
<Myrtti> I don't however use tmux for anything else than irssi session management, so you might want to set it to your own needs.
<Myrtti> If you are using tmux, you can reattach the session with
<Myrtti> tmux -a -- this attaches the session to where you are issuing the command now, but if it's open elsewhere, keeps it open there as well
<Myrtti> tmux -a d -- this deattaches the ongoing session if such exists and reattaches in where you're issuing the command.
<Myrtti> and  - that was it.
<Myrtti> le finis
 * AlanBell claps
 * Fuchs claps
<Myrtti> any questions?
<itmannen> Thank you for a good lesson
<Rcart> Myrtti: how do u specify a session in screen?
 * LetoThe2nd pop a bottle of champagne
<AlanBell> thanks Myrtti, I will have to go read that through again slowly :)
<Myrtti> Rcart: that is a good question which I unfortunately can't really answer beyond what I can read from "man screen" :-|
<dax> Rcart: as in telling it which one to reconnect to if you have more than one?
<Myrtti> but yeah, the answer is depending on what you need to specify it for
<dax> if so, `screen -ls' will tell you information about them like PID that you can use as an option to screen -r
<LetoThe2nd> Myrtti: one small thing: in the cap_sasl example you gave, you referred to irc.freenode.net:6667, right?
<Rcart> dax: yep
<Myrtti> LetoThe2nd: no, I used a port and command that enable SSL as well
<Rcart> dax: Oh, great (:
<dax> "All freenode servers listen on ports 6665, 6666, 6667, 6697 (SSL only), 7000 (SSL only), 7070 (SSL only), 8000, 8001 and 8002."
<Rcart> Myrtti: Thanks for the talk o/
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dax> (just in case anyone was wondering which ports are valid)
<itmannen> Goodby and thank you
<LetoThe2nd> Myrtti: i see. no idea where the 6667 in the config came from, manually setting it to 7070 fixed it anyway
<dax> LetoThe2nd: it's the default port, so possibly you missed setting one originally
<LetoThe2nd> dax: yeah, probably
<Myrtti> itmannen: so why I use irssi? it's especially nice if you are a student and need to change the computer every now and then, or travelling
<itmannen> Myrtti<< Ok.
<benonsoftware>  /mode
<AlanBell> if anyone wants to carry on playing in -sandpit feel free to do so
<dax> Personally, I use irssi because of what Myrtti said and also because I've used other IRC clients and it takes more time for me to do things in them, especially the GUI ones.
<AlanBell> do some bans and quits and quiets etc
<Myrtti> yup, feel free to fiddle - the channel will be closed down at some point though
<Myrtti> I hope I had something new for everyone
<LetoThe2nd> getting too late. thanks and good night!
<Myrtti> --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuide#Useful_Scripts irssi, xchat, and quassel.
<Myrtti> thank you everyone
<AlanBell> well done Myrtti :)
<Myrtti> \o/
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/12/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<Fuchs> Definitely, yes  :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
 * Fuchs hands Myrtti a bunch of flowers and wanders off
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Myrtti: Do you have the link to your site with the aliases? I had to pop out halfway through
<Myrtti> irssi aliases: http://myrtti.fi/irssialiases
<Myrtti> xchat aliases: http://myrtti.fi/xchataliases
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, http://myrtti.fi/xchatalias, no?  i thought xchataliases 404;d
<EvilResistance> oh nevermind :p
<EvilResistance> its been fixed xD
<Myrtti> of course it was fixed
<Myrtti> I fixed it there and then
<Myrtti> was fixed when I told you to refresh
<EvilResistance> it still 404'd after that, even after a reboot
<Myrtti> :-|
<EvilResistance> (battery died, so...)
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, i'm writing your xchat aliases into a script, that can be loaded into xchat on any system that has perl (including Windows), because XChat doesnt have an /alias command
<Myrtti> yeah, that's nice
<EvilResistance> (and the syntax in some of your commands is broken anyways, so i'm fixing it as I go)
<Myrtti> bkerensa: ^
<EvilResistance> 'tis a tad difficult, been a while since I coded in Perl
<Myrtti> alright
<EvilResistance> xD
<bkerensa> Myrtti: ok :)
<EvilResistance> once its released, I'll throw it your way :p
<Myrtti> good enough reason and suddenly motivation and need appears
<Myrtti> :-P
<EvilResistance> did I mention Perl on windows is evil as [REDACTED WORDS]?
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, i take it you dont use xchat, right?
<EvilResistance> or do you?
<EvilResistance> (I'll need a tester after i'm done converting your aliases into a script)
<Myrtti> EvilResistance: never have.
<Myrtti> I moved from mIRC directly to irssi in 2002
<Myrtti> if not earlier
<bkerensa> I think I moved to mIRC in 1999
<bkerensa> when I mostly abandoned Windows
<Myrtti> moved to or from?
<bkerensa> from
<bkerensa> :D
<Myrtti> that makes more sense
<EvilResistance> heh
<EvilResistance> alrighty, i'll test myself when this is done
<bkerensa> from mIRC to BX
<Myrtti> EvilResistance: do you need ubuntu-uhri for testing?
<Myrtti> or are you fine without?
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, #ubuntu-uhri?
<ubuntu-uhri> hi
<ubuntu-uhri> me
<EvilResistance> oh
<EvilResistance> i'm not going to be done for a while, i've got calculus lecture shortly
<EvilResistance> but it wouldnt hurt to have a tester
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> (also, xchat scripting with Perl can be *quite* a pain :/)
<Myrtti> it's irssi so it can be used for testing kicks and such, so not much else
<Myrtti> but -
<Myrtti> it's running from my own laptop instead of the shell server so it will go down in abit
<Myrtti> it's 0100am here
<EvilResistance> Myrtti, http://pastebin.com/TVWWjCmj  <-- that's what i've got so far, and i'm only up to nsidentify
<EvilResistance> you can see how complex scripting this is :/
<EvilResistance> (lots of repetetive code, checking to make sure there are arguments given for commands that need them, etc.)
<Myrtti> well, you do realise that there is already nickserv.py or whatnot?
<EvilResistance> mhm, but not every python xchat script has the functionality of perl xchat scripts
<EvilResistance> besides, i dont have python on this machine here
<Myrtti> mmmm
<EvilResistance> so i'm stuck with perl
<Myrtti> ok
<Myrtti> well anyway, time to head for bed.
<Myrtti> ubuntu-uhri will be back online sometime next 10 hours or so.
<EvilResistance> ok
<Myrtti> tara
<EvilResistance> (i'll probably still not be done by then xD)
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-03-13
<harry__> what is this room about
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-03-14
<Mkaysi> See link in /topic :)
<kitina_> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-03-15
<linux5320> hello
<gepatino> FT
<gepatino> sorry, wrong channel
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-03-17
<compuerexperte30> hy
<compuerexperte30> someone online ?
<Mkays|> Yes
<compuerexperte30> Are we able to lern somethin here ?
<Mkays|> When someone teaches something. See /topic
<compuerexperte30> Is this a classroom ?
<compuerexperte30> excuse me, but i am new here...
<Mkays|> Yes
<compuerexperte30> this ist a classroom ?
<compuerexperte30> or only a chatroom ?
<Mkays|> This is classroom
<compuerexperte30> oh...
<Mkays|> Chat is at #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<compuerexperte30> how does it work here ?
<Mkays|> When someone teaches something, only the teacher can talk here. Teacher will answer questions which are send to -chat
<compuerexperte30> Questions about Ubuntu ?  or other questions ?
<Mkays|> It depends on what is being teached.
<compuerexperte30> But what ist teached now ?
<Mkays|> Nothing
<compuerexperte30> oh...
<Mkays|> See /topic for schedule
<compuerexperte30> No teacher.. no teaching ?
 * Mkays| is not sure how it goes
<compuerexperte30> yes i am not shure how it works
<compuerexperte30> mkays, thank you for talking but now i have to leave the Classroom.... coming back later....
<Mkays|> Bye
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-03-11
<molensis> hello/
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-03-12
<daryllukas> hello world
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-03-13
<loonix103> hello
<loonix103> hello?
