#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-06
<brettalton> daker: not yet, but soon with django/contact form
<daker> good
<brettalton> daker: do you know what the link is for 'download'?
<brettalton> I can't find a Live CD link anywhere
<daker> http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<daker> this is the old quickshot page
<flan> Note: I did not write the copy.
<flan> Or most of the client.
 * flan avoids blame.
<flan> Proactively!
<Muscovy> I've never heard of proactive blame avoidance.
<flan> We should talk more.
<brettalton> daker: thanks!
<brettalton> I noticed that there is no "Using Quickshot" on the new site. Think that should go on the homepage?
<Muscovy> Hmm.
<Muscovy> I'm updating the Wikipedia page on the manual, it's a few months old.
<daker> brettalton, no there isn't
<Muscovy> http://ubuntu-manual.org/images/header.png is the official logo, right?
<daker> Muscovy, yes
<Muscovy> In case anyone here has upload permissions on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_manual needs updated images.
<brettalton> daker: I get a [Errno 111] Connection refused error when using /contact
<brettalton> is that because no SMTP settings are set?
<daker> yes
<daker> have you pushed the "send" button ?
<brettalton> correct
<daker> do not push it
<daker> because the contact function is not coded correctly
<brettalton> daker: do you want to do that? I looked at it and made some fixed but I'm not familiar with django
<daker> i'll do it tomorrow
<brettalton> daker: no rush, was just curious
<daker> :D
<brettalton> also curious as to why none of my changes are showing up in launchpad...
<daker> you need to push them
<daker> ah i forgot
<daker> i need to add you to the quickshot team
<daker> brettalton, you are already in
<brettalton> daker: I'm apart of the team, but I did something wrong.. it's under my own branch...
<brettalton> shoot
<brettalton> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~brett-alton/quickshot/website
<brettalton> let
<brettalton> let's merge my branch with the proper branch and I'll redownload to do it right
<daker> oki
<daker> i'll do it
<brettalton> I just submit a merge request
<brettalton> sorry
<brettalton> I guess I can accept it myself...
<daker> nop
<daker> brb
<daker> food time
<daker> i'll review it when i come back
<brettalton> food time sounds good. let me know when/how you merged it. I thought I just merged it but apparently not. I'm a bit confused on how to merge via lp
<brettalton> apparently you have to use bzr on the cli.. that's silly
<daker_> brandonj, i know
<daker_> oupps
<daker_> brettalton, i know
<daker_> it's seems to be merged
<brettalton> still shows rev 3 when my branch is rev 6
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/3 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 3
<brettalton> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/website
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/6 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 6
<daker> brettalton, oki merged
<brettalton> daker: did you have to do anything special?
<brettalton> or that I should know about?
<brettalton> daker: can you delete that branch for me?
<brettalton> sorry, new to bzr/launchpad
<brettalton> daker: nvm, shouldn't do that as it destroys the merge
<brettalton> humphreybc: I got all the html/css done like I said. daker is going to finish the django/contact page stuff and we're golden
<humphreybc> great :D
<humphreybc> we've already got quickshot.org
<humphreybc> it's on godbyk's server
<Muscovy> Could any proofreaders let me know if I'm missing some Software Center changes?
<vish> humphreybc: re: the fixes for bzr commits , its " --fixes lp:1234 lp:5678" , i havent tried nigelb's way though
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> cool thanks vish
<flan> Can someone help me test something in Quickshot?
<flan> Requirements: python-gtk2, python-gobject, python-apport, python-wnck
<humphreybc> flan: I would but I have to go to work now sorry
<thorwil> flan: https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/quickshot_art  the export folder contains quickshot_logo_bright.png for use in the app
<flan> Thanks, thorwil. I'll leave inserting it to jenkins, though.
<thorwil> flan: alright, you just happen to have higher availability ;)
<flan> If he hasn't done it by tomorrow, I'll handle it.
<flan> I'm just kinda hoping to finish the core functionality today and then take a break.
<thorwil> hi jenkins! export dir in https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/quickshot_art  contains a quickshot_logo_bright.png for use in the app
<jenkins> thanks thorwil i am just pulling to have a look
<jenkins> looks ace thorwil, thanks very much for all your hard work in getting us sorted with logos and icons
<thorwil> jenkins: you're welcome :)
<jenkins> brettalton: I need to give you some information to put on a get involved page for the quickshot website, I will try and do it on the weekend
<brettalton> jenkins: no prob, just e-mail me or catch me on IRC
<jenkins> cool great to see you working on it :)
<flan> I made Lucid crash!
<jenkins> lol flan how did you do it
<flan> The 'Other' panel on the login screen is glitchy.
<flan> I recommend against trying to run Quickshot until I've finished the user account stuff.
<flan> It'll probably only take about another half hour.
<flan> Then the client will be functionally complete.
<jenkins> k https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/631647 right?
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 631647 in quickshot "GTK warnings issued when changing state properties on graphics_confirm_window" [Low,Confirmed]
<flan> And I can finally take a break.
<flan> Huh?
<flan> No, that's unrelated.
<flan> That's just there so nobody else reports it.
<flan> Or so someone can fix it for me.
<jenkins> ok sorry only scanned it
<flan> Enjoy your functionally complete Quickshot client.
<flan> I'll start commenting and restructuring code tonight/tomorrow.
<flan> And I'll look further into the GTK warnings, 'cause those are really bothering me.
<flan> But, for now, everything should work.
<flan> If you find any problems, report a bug.
<flan> Feel free to add stuff to the project definition on the server to test the client.
<flan> I'll do a full database reset on the 9th so we can start populating it with new screenshot rules.
<jenkins> thanks flan! your ace I will have a play when I finish the scout stuff i am doing
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-07
<thorwil> humphreybc: thanks!
<humphreybc> thorwil: no probs, looks great
<humphreybc> how's the manual going
<humphreybc> >
<humphreybc> ?*
<humphreybc> fail right there
 * vish wonders why the logo cant be used as the icon too :)
<vish> thorwil: scaling issues or .. ?
 * vish likes the logo more than the icon btw ..;)
<humphreybc> I have to agree with vish on that one too
<vish> thorwil: one issue with the 256 px icon , it _will_ be scaled down , thats why most of the 256px icons are tested how they look at 64px too
<thorwil> vish: partly scaling issues, yet. the icon concentrates on providing a hint what quickshot is about, while for the logo, looking good comes first
<thorwil> vish: scaling it as bitmap is a dumb idea. should i made lines in the 256 px version wide enough so they will be 1px at 64px? ridiculous
<vish> thorwil: yeah , thats why the 256 px icons are ridiculous :) , but thats how they work.. they scale down 4 times , hence lines are usually 4px thick
<vish> thorwil: the 256 px are never used anywhere, its given in the readme though , not my idea :)
<vish> thorwil: also, i dont know if others would know by looking at the icon as to it function.. it seems to relate to us since we know what it does.. i'd still prefer the logo one and try to scale it.. but your call .. ;)
<thorwil> vish: that's not quite what i get out the README. already found 1 and 2 px wide lines and icons with nothing you can call an outline at all
<vish> thorwil: its everything, not the lines alone , everything needs to be in multiples of 4 , the whole icon size , the margins, etc..
<thorwil> vish: what's the reason to not work at 64px, then?
<thorwil> wait, gotta ask them
<vish> thorwil: beats me.. i still wonder that.. still not sure why/where we use 256 px icons..
<nisshh> popey: did you manage to compile the manual in the end?
<popey> yes!
<popey> I CAN HAZ PDF!
<nisshh> haha
<nisshh> popey: so, what do you think so far?
<popey> not had much chance to read it yet
<nisshh> also, be aware that i havent gotten all the chapters in the branch yet
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> popey: any idea what you want to do yet? (edit/grammar check/consistency checking)
<popey> well, the initial idea was grammar, consistency check, test
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> still want to do that or have you changed your mind?
<popey> yeah, just not had a chance to look at it since I compiled it last night
 * popey is at work
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> thought you might be
<popey> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ --> link on right to tradepub  for ubuntu manual download
<nisshh> popey: i saw that the other day, they ripped it off our site
<nisshh> bloody amateurs
<popey> http://ubuntugeek.tradepub.com/c/pubRD.mpl/?pc=w_ubun01
<nisshh> yea
<popey> he's a uk person
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> popey: you home from work now?
<popey> no
<popey> i have an appointment with a pint of beer directly after work
<nisshh> ah ok
<nisshh> hehe
<popey> will ping you when I'm back home
<nisshh> sure
<nisshh> popey: just so i get the time difference, your in the UK correnct?
<nisshh> correct*
<popey> ya
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> popey: i just tried to download the manual on tradepub there, and its asking me for all my details, WTF!?
<popey> yeah
<popey> its an affiliate site
<popey> he gets a kickback for each download
<nisshh> a kickback?
<popey> its not the first time he's done that
<popey> money
<nisshh> ah
<nisshh> what a douch
<popey> just plain rude given how much time you lot put in
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i mean, itd be ok if he linked to the site
<nisshh> but that is rediculous!
<nisshh> popey: does humphreybc know?
<popey> i suspect so
<popey> it was tweeted months ago
<popey> Chris Pirillo started it iirc
<popey> and that ubuntu-geek guy just picks up links and posts them with zero thought
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i wanna punch that guy in the face
<popey> heh
<nisshh> :)
<popey> you could send him a polite email pointing out the error of his ways
<nisshh> i suspect that would just warrant an agry reply about him needing the money
<flan> nisshh, I think I just had an evil idea.
<flan> Deliciously so, of course.
<nisshh> flan: hmmm?
<nisshh> flan: whats your idea?
<flan> Present Quickshot in AppDevWeek as a "howto", clone the live UMP data-set, and try to get participants to capture real data for merging back into the core tree.
<flan> (Cloned so I can give them admin access to the demo server, for full immersion)
<nisshh> flan: you mean use the session in order to get people to take the manual screenshots?
<flan> Yes.
<flan> Under the pretense of teaching them how to use it for their own projects./
<nisshh> flan: holy shit! your a freaking genious! :)
<nisshh> flan: so, do you need my help?
<flan> If you're available, I wouldn't mind having someone to keep me from getting too technical.
<flan> But I think I can manage.
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> flan: if your sure, make sure you schedule a place, there arent many left
<nisshh> sorry, not a place, a time
<flan> I took the one right after "writing documentation with Mallard"
<nisshh> ah cool
<flan> It seemed appropriate.
<flan> More likely to have a similar crowd.
<flan> Er... interested crowd*
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> flan: ill make sure i hang around in the channel when your session is on
<nisshh> just in case
<flan> Thanks.
<nisshh> :)
<flan> Is it wrong to have a playlist of nothing but remixes of FFV's Battle on the Big Bridge?
<nisshh> yes
<flan> Aww. :(
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> flan: you need some better music
<flan> Says you.
<nisshh> flan: my playlist is over 3800 items
<flan> Small.
<flan> I didn't meant to say this was all I have. Just that it's all I'm listening to at the moment.
<flan> No bugs yet, jenkins?
<jenkins> I have just started on it whilst i wait for latex to download. can you assign the icon to the windows and the error dialog needs to comform to gnome hig where would i edit it? I can't see it in glade
<flan> The dialogues aren't in Glade.
<flan> What do you need to change?
<flan> Everything's created dynamically in gui/dialogue.py
<flan> As for the icons, yes, just tell me where the file is, relative to data/ui/, and I'll get that working today.
<jenkins> there should be a 12 px border around the main box, and 12px between each of the elements
<ChrisWoollard> evening jenkins
<flan> If thorwil gave us a .ico for the website (or a suitable alternative image), put it in server/quickshot/public and add an appropriate header to quickshot/templates/common/header.mako
<flan> Remove the old favicon.ico, if it becomes redundant as a result.
<flan> Oh. Yeah, just find out what to call or pass to the box in the GTK docs (pygtk + box) and set that in dialogue.py.
<flan> You should only have to change it in the private function at the top.
<jenkins> all the art work is in  https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/quickshot_art  I have just pussed the icon into the data/ui folder . i tried assigning it in glade but it did not work
<jenkins> hey ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> How is life treating you
<jenkins> I am good thanks, your self
<ChrisWoollard> I am ok. I am getting a bit fed up with writting this job application form. + my meeting is later
<jenkins> o yea I will pop in, good luck . Please ping me before it starts
<ChrisWoollard> np
<ChrisWoollard> will do
<flan> It's not gonna work if you assign it in Glade. Not yet, anyway.
<flan> With the exception of the windows that are loaded as-is, like graphics_confirm.
<flan> Assign everything in Glade, though.
<flan> I'll just copy the icon from the parent to the internal window model.
<jenkins> ok I will go through assiging in glade
<flan> Or... maybe I can just let you do that.
<flan> It'll be one line.
<flan> Gimme a moment to write it.
<flan> In base.py, where other attributes are being copied from content.parent, add the following: "self.set_icon(content.parent.get_icon())"
<flan> That should cause everything to get pulled from Glade.
<jenkins> ok thanks I will give it a tyr
<jenkins> flan: are you sure you mean base.py? I added it to project_selection.py with all the other content parent stuff and that worked
<flan> I'm sure I mean base.py.
<flan> Oh, wait.
<flan> No,.
<flan> You're right.
<flan> I meant every child of base.py.
 * flan braindead.
<jenkins> I will copy that into every file
<flan> Every file that has a class that inherits from base.BaseWindow, not gtk.Window.
<jenkins> ok will do
<flan> I'm sure you'll notice the difference ins tructure, though
<flan> They look nothing alike.
<jenkins> http://tinypic.com/r/j0lkiu/7 quickshot with the new logo and icon!
<flan> It almost looks like a real program!
<jenkins> lol
<flan> So, do you want to handle changing the server's icon, too, or should I do that?
<flan> Also, thorwil, do you have a mini-logo I could use for the server's header area? Alternatively, any objection to me using the same reference material, but moving the text to teh right of the icon and using that?
<ChrisWoollard> ping jenkins
<ChrisWoollard> meeting started
<jenkins> ready to watch ChrisWoollard :)
<ChrisWoollard> thx
<jenkins> everyone join #ubuntu-meeting and support ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> I am glad i am not first. Then i can watch how it is done
<jenkins> i agree
<thorwil> flan: rough something in so i can see the size you desire and ask me again tomorrow
<thorwil> flan: didn't make an ico so far. really hate the thought of trying to bring the logo down to 16px. using the icon would be easy, though
<thorwil> flan: cool to see you use mako. now i have to run, cya!
<ChrisWoollard> this may take a while.
<jenkins> I was thinking the same
<jenkins> they really quized ben when he had his but this appears to be easier. ben was applying for a different area of the world though
<ChrisWoollard> nissh had his in the same region as be
<ChrisWoollard> n
<ChrisWoollard> he had a hard time too.
<jenkins> I think they were really tough
<ChrisWoollard> I also wonder if it makes a difference that there are a lot of people to get through
 * jenkins has written his i like chris text up in gedit
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<jenkins> I was thinking that a lot of people may make them quicker
<ChrisWoollard> you should have done yours too.
<jenkins> I should have done :(
<jenkins> although at this rate i would have fallen asleep by the time it reached me
<ChrisWoollard> i was hoping that half the people would have forgotton to turn up
<jenkins> that does usually happen
<ChrisWoollard> I am up next.
<jenkins> cool
<ChrisWoollard> Yay.
<ChrisWoollard> I am now an Ubuntu Member
<jenkins> nice one :) they so want to get them completed now
<ChrisWoollard> I noticed.
<ChrisWoollard> They did like my testimonials :)
<dutchie> anybody interested in helping the a11y team come up with personas feel free to join #ubuntu-accessibility now
<dutchie> a11y discussion finished, see http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WkO4TZbvWt for the fruits of our labour
<daker> ChrisWoollard, congrats!!
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-08
<thorwil> vish: so i did apply for uds sponsorship. seeing how useless i have been since a while, except for what i did here, i doubt it will happen, though :}
<vish> thorwil: yeah... i did it yesterday too.. saw jcastro's blog and only then realized.. timez up!  :)
<flan> People can be sponsored for attending UDS?
 * flan wishes he'd known. :(
<dutchie> flan: you can still apply iirc
<dutchie> ah, deadline today
<thorwil> flan: assuming they use london time, you still have few hours. doesn't have to take long, though you have to write a bit about yourself that should better be convincing
<ChrisWoollard> evening all
<daker> hi ChrisWoollard
<daker> congrats!!
<ChrisWoollard> thanks dakar
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-09
<ChrisWoollard> Good night all. I am going to bed.
<Omega> Ooh, nice, he got in.
<ChrisWoollard> ping godbyk
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: pong
<flan> jenkins, do you want me to reset the Qs database now?
<flan> So we can start populating the server for use tomorrow.
<jenkins> its fine at the moment thanks flan I am only just testing at the moment. Due to loads of scout stuff. I am having problems building packages on mavrick so am waiting for launchpad to do them
<jenkins> you could switch it to a dummy project I guess
<flan> No, uh, I mean I actually have to reset the database.
<flan> The whole database.
<flan> I changed the schema a little.
<flan> To fix a systemic error.
<flan> Back in, like, r16x.
<jenkins> opps i will try and finish asap
<flan> I could reset it and just create two projects.
<flan> One public (10-10) and one private (test).
<flan> Both under the ump name.
<jenkins> thats sounds like a good idea
<flan> If I wipe the database now, will you lose anything important?
<jenkins> not as far as i know
<flan> 'Kay.
<flan> "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.10"
<flan> Is that the name of the next edition?
<flan> Oh, wait. I made that editable.
<jenkins> as far as I know
<flan> So you can just fix it.
<flan> http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump
<flan> Do whatever you want in Quickshot test.
<flan> (ump/test if entering the URL directly in the client)
<flan> Oh, neat.
<flan> Bug~
<jenkins> thorwil: when you have a moment can you do a 14X14 icon a 64x64 logo and a 192x192 logo please for the launchpad page
<thorwil> jenkins: yes, though 14x14 will basically be a pixel-blob
<flan> Isn't 16x16 more common than 14x14?
<jenkins> yea so do i but thats what lauchpad insists on. very strange size
<flan> And 32x32.
<jenkins> mattgriffin: you know if anyone has said that they would add it to the mavrick branch?
<thorwil> vish: heh, wolter is cute: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/official-ubuntu-10-10-countdown-banners-chosen/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28Omg!+Ubuntu!%29#comment-76223923
<jenkins> hmm quickshot will not build for mavrick
<mattgriffin> jenkins: haven't heard anything
<jenkins> thanks matt I will mail your docs team e-mail to the manual list
<mattgriffin> jenkins: ah cool. thanks!
<jenkins> mattgriffin: are they plain text or in latex?
<vish> thorwil: gah! i hate you!
<vish> ;p
<vish> thorwil: i clicked that link and my system crashed! :(
<vish> seriously!
<thorwil> vish: lol. blame the system, not me!
<vish> thorwil: yeah.. i blame the system but hate you ;p
<thorwil> vish: maybe you should switch to arch linux or fedora!
<mattgriffin> jenkins: latex
<vish> thorwil: maybe , but i will still hate you!
<jenkins> o sweet :)
 * vish hides from thorwil's wrath! ;)
<vish> alrighty.. no more playing with mainline kernels! :/
<jenkins> sent
<thorwil> vish: i know deep down you love me and would carry my baby, if that was possible, so it's all good
<vish> rofl!
<vish> thorwil: sorry too busy laughing.. cant think of a rebuttal ;)
<thorwil> that was the point. maybe
<vish> thorwil: back! yeah.. i'll try to carry the baby.. but will still hate you and for it! ;p
<thorwil> vish: sheesh, the way you act up, if i stumble over link leading to the ultimate understanding of life, the universe and everything else, i will ... think twice to paste it to you
<vish> thorwil: if you dont paste it.. i will hate you for that too!
 * vish = 1 - thorwil =0
<thorwil> vish: if you took any unusual substances today, you should abstain from them in future
<vish> thorwil: sure will abstain.. but will still hate you! :p
<vish> thorwil: too bad wolter wasnt here .. ;)
<thorwil> vish: yeah, too bad. maybe i should step down and invite him to create the next title page?
<vish> thorwil: hehe! i think wolter would very much like *that*  ;)
<thorwil> 14x14 px .... ridiculous
<jenkins> I guessed so
<thorwil> ugh, how to undo a bzr add?
<guestadada> delete the file
<thorwil> seems bzr remove
<thorwil> jenkins: just pushed 3 new PNGs and the source SVG to https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/quickshot_art
<thorwil> good night! :)
<jenkins> night
 * jenkins starts a quickshot bug list there is no icon in the menu
<jenkins> well thats fixed but there is something not right with the packing. I will look into it after work it all worked in lucid I don't know why not in mavrick
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-10
<Muscovy> I added myself in the authors list in revision 31, and in revision 32 it's gone.
<Muscovy> 32's revision history says credits.text wasn't edited.
<Omega> Hey Muscovy.
<Omega> Good night.
<nisshh> rickspencer3: hey, just had a though, do you want to set aside some time and we can do a bit of collaboration hacking on the dev manual? just a suggestion, you dont have to
<jenkins> right time to fix the debain stuff for quickshot i guess
<jenkins> flan: ping
<jenkins> is anyone running mavrick?
<Omega> Muscovy!
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-11
<jenkins> flan: we have a show stopping bug with the display of the screenshot that the user has just taken in the client. I have hopefully fixed any packaging issues
<flan> jenkins, still there?
<jenkins> yeo
<jenkins> yep
<flan> Can you describe the bug?
<jenkins> i am trying to do hello.txt screenshot and it is only displaying a tiny part of the image. I ahve changed the screenshot settings to take the active window it was 4 x 20 px
<flan> Oh. I just made that one up to show someone what the interface looks like.
<flan> The values were just random.
<jenkins> I have changed it to do the window. but i am not sure I haev done it right
<flan> Just blank every sub-rect value and it'll capture the full window.
<flan> (A full set of 0s will do the same thing)
<jenkins> yea it must be the server setup some how. I only thought of that about 10 mins ago
<flan> (Since I'd imagine some people won't just blank the fields)
<flan> Are most of our screenshots going to be the same for this run?
<flan> If so, I'll just start transposing screenshots from the old config file.
<jenkins> I think they are i have no clue no-one has said anything
<flan> Who'd know?
<flan> I can get that stuff set up tonight.
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: or godbyk i guess
<flan> Then take a few screenshots myself, before switching the server to production-mode.
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<flan> Hi.
<flan> Screenshots for 10.10. Same things as in 10.04?
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: do you know what screenshots are needed this releas?
<flan> Or do we have a lot of changes?
<flan> Mmm... Microwave maccaroni and cheese...
 * flan really is that lazy.
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: also do you know if anyone has added the rythambox and ubuntu one stuff? I have not ahd time to do it my self yet
<ChrisWoollard> i am not sure on the screen shots
<ChrisWoollard> i haven't been areound
<ChrisWoollard> this may mention something
<ChrisWoollard> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-maverick
<flan> Well, we're dropping the chapter on terminal stuff, right?
<Muscovy> I think so.
<flan> Oh, and I'll need the screenshot names...
<Muscovy> Or maybe merging it with security?
<flan> Hmm...
 * ChrisWoollard looks at the change log
<flan> Anyone want to take charge of populating the project on the Qs server witht he right screenshots?
<flan> Most of the details will be the same as they were in 10.04 and we have a text file for that.
 * jenkins hides and goes back to fixing problems
 * flan wants to document the code and start work on preparing a presentation for AppDevWeek.
<flan> Wanna help with that, jenkins? I'll probably do most of the prep-work.
<jenkins> I can do my best to help
<ChrisWoollard> i can't see any mention of the ubuntuone or rhythmbox stuff in the change log
<flan> You'd probably just need to join the channel and look pretty.
<flan> And keep me from getting too technical.
<ChrisWoollard> I guess it is still in mattgriffin's branch
 * mattgriffin reads the backlog
<ChrisWoollard> hey matt.
<mattgriffin> ChrisWoollard: heya... added some updates to the ubuntu one and rhythmbox content to a branch... not sure if there's anything else i need to do
<jenkins> rigth flan I can do that. I am always loging on every time i can
<ChrisWoollard> I don't think anybody has done anything with it yet.
<jenkins> I will do it before I go to bed
<ChrisWoollard> ok.
<jenkins> flan: how do i set a user account for the test project?
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: To be matts stuff in will you just replace the relevant tex files with matts?
<ChrisWoollard> sorry
<ChrisWoollard> s/be/get
<jenkins> I will probably do so I will have a read though
<jenkins>  /comaper
<flan> jenkins, you'll have to add someone to the ump project family as an owner.
<mattgriffin> ChrisWoollard, jenkins: yeah... i just started from the existing version and updated the text of the file
<flan> Click 'Ubuntu Manual Project' in the location bar below the "logo".
<flan> Then "Manage project" in the right.
<flan> Then just paset in their OpenID.
<ChrisWoollard> mattgriffin: it looks like you took a complete copy of the branch and edited in your changes?
<jenkins> flan:  thats usefull to know. how do i add a user account for the screenshots to be taken from?
<mattgriffin> ChrisWoollard: yeah. only changed 1 file in each branch
<ChrisWoollard> cool
<ChrisWoollard> I am looking at the maverick branch and it might have already been added. I am going to double check that though
<mattgriffin> ChrisWoollard: cool
<ChrisWoollard> i see a reference to 10.10 in the tex files
<ChrisWoollard> i'll do a quick diff of the files
<mattgriffin> excellent
<flan> jenkins, just define it in 'Manage version'. It's a field on the right.
<flan> Where you can edit other project properties, like resolution and name,
<mattgriffin> ChrisWoollard: looks like they're different
<ChrisWoollard> i just noticed that
<ChrisWoollard> I guess we'll use your version.
<mattgriffin> cool
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: I am going to update the ubuntu one files with matt's version.
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: I am going to update the ubuntu one files with matt's version.
<jenkins> thanks
<jenkins> sorry about that laptop locked up
<ChrisWoollard> goh
<ChrisWoollard> doh
<jenkins> did you answer my question?
<jenkins> flan: ^
<flan> 17:49 < flan> jenkins, just define it in 'Manage version'. It's a field on the  right.
<flan> 17:49 < flan> Where you can edit other project properties, like resolution and  name,
<jenkins> thaks flan. I needed to scroll more multiple windows open. I have found a bug with the server
<flan> Do tell.
<jenkins> if your open id has a space at the end when you paste it it does not login
<flan> Are you sure?
<flan> openid = request.params.get('openid', '').strip()
<jenkins> well deleting it for me appeared to work
<ChrisWoollard> The Ubuntu One content is now in.
<jenkins> Things didn't go as smoothly as they should haveThe OpenID you provided was in a format that could not be understoodIllegal characters in URI: ' ' at position 7
<ChrisWoollard> And it compiles
<jenkins> good can you do rythambox as well O:-)
<flan> What was the exact OpenID you gave it?
<ChrisWoollard> I will do. Then bed time.
<jenkins> thnaks Chris
<jenkins> i closed chromium accidently one moment flan
<jenkins> "https://launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins " same error except possition 36
<flan> Position 7 means it was in the middle of the string. Like, right after the http:// part.
<flan> Interesting...
<jenkins> I just copy and paste from the launchpad page
<flan> Paste that string into Python and call repr() on it.
<flan> I need to make sure it's actually a space.
<flan> And not an &nbsp;.
<flan> How did you copy it?
<jenkins> "'https://launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins '"
<jenkins> is what i got from python
<jenkins> I selected it cntrl+c cntrl+p
<flan> Okay, so it is a space there...
<flan> Like, from the location bar?
<jenkins> well I coppied it with the space from the lauchpad page
<jenkins> accdently
<flan> There's an &nbsp; there.
<jenkins> hows that get there?
<flan> It's common in web-design.
<flan> It jsut creates a space that's exempt from normal compression/wrapping rules.
<flan> Character 160.
<flan> The browser must have been passing it to the server while your terminal's filtering it.
<flan> I just tried using a normal space and it worked.
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: I have pushed the Rhythmbox changes as well now.
<jenkins> thanks very much ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> II'll update the bugs
<jenkins> flan: strange anything to do with the image next to it on lauchpad may be?
<flan> I'd call this "won't fix", since it's no different from trying to paste a *, only not quite as easy to visually diagnose.
<flan> It very well could be, yes.
<flan> It might have been a control character instead of a non-breaking space.
<jenkins> thats fine. http://paste.ubuntu.com/491891/ I have been able do this twice now. I enter a password for the user but get my sudo password wrong I then just get warnings "unable to modifty user account....."
<flan> Well, given that it's printing usage information, I'd venture that I did something wrong.
<flan> Is the display name defined?
<flan> If not, don't define it.
<flan> It means I have to fix the command syntax.
<ChrisWoollard> Bye all. Bed time now.
<jenkins> night ChrisWoollard
<jenkins> i did not define it
<jenkins> (the display name)
<flan> Patch committed.
<jenkins> repackaging it
<flan> Run it with --debug next time. Just in case.
<flan> (--debug: debug-level logging; --verbose: info-level logging)
<jenkins> will do, I ment to ask if that still worked
<flan> It'll always write logfiles with debug-level logging.
<flan> Frogurt, non-frogurt, or banana?
 * flan bananas.
<jenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/491894/
<jenkins> your fix did not work
<flan> Oh.
<flan> No, I forgot a character,
<flan> Fixed now. For reals.
<flan> %(display_name) != %(display_name)s
<jenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/491897/ back to the original problem not letting me enter a password
<jenkins> i wil just re install the package to double check
<flan> ...Weird...
<flan> tail /var/log/auth.log
<flan> What command is it passing?
<jenkins> Sep 11 01:32:24 luke-jennings-laptop sudo: luke-jennings : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/luke-jennings/Projects/quickshot ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/sbin/useradd --shell /bin/bash -m  -p gePG9mJ4WVxZo quickshottest
<flan> I don't see anything wrong witht hat...
<flan> Oh, wait.
<flan> Yes, I do.
<flan> useradd is super-sensitive, so it's dying on that double-whitespace.
<flan> Sorry. :(
<flan> Pushed.
<flan> 18:36 < flan> useradd is super-sensitive, so it's dying on that  double-whitespace.
<flan> 18:36 < flan> Sorry. :(
<flan> 18:37 < flan> Pushed.
<jenkins__> hey flan can it me made so that the project that the account was set up for shows up in the recent list automatically now i have to remember your server url
<jenkins__> I am testing in the quickshottest accoun now
<flan> It should already be the most recent project in the list.
<flan> That list should update every time you successfully connect to a project.
<flan> Oh.
<flan> You changed actual users.
<jenkins__> yes
<jenkins__> I guess it would be really hacky to do that for the user you set up?
<flan> No, that can't be done. Not without violating the sense of implied separation between users.
<flan> Yeah.
<jenkins__> can you drop  me the link please
<flan> We could just force a copy of ~/.quickshot into the new user's home directory, but I really don't want to do that.
<flan> http://flan/uguu.ca:5000/ump/test
<flan> You could also just use the .qsproj method.
<flan> Download the file in /home/jenkins and load that from the other user.
<flan> It'll be world-readable by default in Ubuntu.
<flan> So we should just recommand that on the getting started page.
<jenkins__> yea i had not got as far as making qspjt
<jenkins__> yep
<flan> It's just a matter of clicking 'Help out!' on the project page and saving the file.
<jenkins__> i know i had just got the link handy untill now
<jenkins__> I have another bug with the apport stuff
 * jenkins__ goes to fix it
<jenkins__> how is screen resolution changes done? 2010-09-11 01:52:48,808 : quickshot.gui.graphics_change : ERROR : Unable to change screen resolution: [Errno 2] No such file or directory  is my error
<flan> Using nvidia?
<jenkins__> yep with no disper I guess thats it
<flan> Most likely.
<flan> Might as well add it as a package dependency/recommendation.
<jenkins__> yep going to
<flan> I'll augment the error message.
<jenkins__> man I have to build it for mavrick
<flan> Pushed.
<flan> Could you just disable the nvidia module?
<flan> I'd test, but my Maverick system is in VirtualBox, so I don't get access to the underlying nvidia hardware.
<jenkins__> thats no problem I will just have to work out his set up
<jenkins__> well its 2 am here I am going to get some sleep and then do some more tomorrow
<jenkins__> night flan
<flan> What time?
<flan> So I'll know when to be around.
<jenkins__> about 16:00 my time is 9am your time right?
<jenkins__> .me checks
<flan> Just tell me in UTC.
<jenkins__> 16:00 utc ish is the plan
<jenkins__> as then you may be getting up
<flan> 'Kay.
<flan> I'll be up well before then.
<flan> But I'll make sure I'm around
<jenkins__> well the disper pcakge for lucid installs on mavrick
<flan> I'm going through its code with Wetbox^3 right now.
<flan> To see if we can break the dependency.
<jenkins__> but quickshot has locked up at the "Does your display look on?" may be my laptop getting hot. I will check more in the morning. thats great
<jenkins__> night flan
<flan> G'night~
<flan> It makes sense that it'd freeze there.
<flan> It had an exception that prevented code from executing.
<flan> Which jenkins is real?
<jenkins> all of them are ?i have nick protect on and can't be bothered to set up singing in on the quickshot test account
<flan> I don't believe you!
<flan> But okay.
<jenkins> I just have the apport stuff to fix
<jenkins> and disper to build
<flan> We kinda decided that leaving disper as a dependency isn't so bad, because it's small and it's actually fairly complicated, internally.
<flan> Better to let someone else manage it.
<jenkins> that sounds good enough to me
<flan> I'm gonna start documenting now.
<flan> Do you want to be credited with an e-mail address in the headers, jenkins, or should I just leave it at your name?
<jenkins> e-mail address is fine
<flan> Which one would you prefer?
<jenkins> flan: apport stuff fixed I have to go and help cook meal but i will be back later
<flan> 'Kay.
<flan> I'll just keep documenting.
<flan> I'll try to have the client done today and the server done tomorrow.
<flan> Though the server will probably be a lot more involved.
<jenkins> I will push the package to be built so it is ready
<flan> So that may take longer if I lose interest.
<jenkins> cool no worries later
<flan> (Like, a day or two)
<Omega> Are there any plans to have the Ubuntu Manual online?
<flan> Ask humphreybc about the USLC.
<Omega> What is USLC?
<nisshh> Omega: Ubuntu Software Learning Center
<nisshh> Omega: its going to be a docs website
 * jenkins is releasing quickshot when he should be tidying his room
<flan> One of those things affects other people. =P
<flan> Though you may want to either a) test it again, since I've made some minor, though potentially syntax-error-inducing alterations to the code, or b) wait for me to finish documenting it in a couple of hours.
<flan> So we can officially call it 0.9.0.
<jenkins> I am happy to wait as I am trying to work out how to add packages for lucid and karmic to the same ppa
<jenkins> it also means i will avoid getting shouted at
<flan> I have to go out to eat now, so I'll resume documenting ina bout an hour.
<flan> I estimate that, if I remain focused, I've only got about an hour to an hour and a half left.
<flan> (And then our Ohloh stats will also look good)
<flan> Speaking of project-management stuff, should we, perhaps, split the trunk into a 'client' series?
<flan> It works just fine as is, of course.
<jenkins> we could do that i don't mind either way
<daker> hello
<daker> how things are going ?
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-12
<thorwil> http://www.youtube.com/user/Robinerd#p/u/0/UevKO2A1Ukc
<Omega> Hey
<daker> godbyk, ping
<jenkins> so version 0.9.0 of quickshot flan?
<daker> godbyk, ping
<daker> hey jenkins
<daker> what's up ?
<jenkins> hey daker, not much going to try and build quickshot
<jenkins> hows u?
<daker> fine :)
<daker> we still have exactly 4 weeks
<daker> until the 10.10
<jenkins> not much time then. any idea who is deciding on what screenshots for this release?
<daker> no, btw we should have a meeting very soon
<jenkins> we should i agree
<daker> jenkins, we can make it next Saturday
<jenkins> I don't see why not go for it!
<jenkins> yey flan quickshot is released for maverick, lucid and karmic along with disper builds for each
<daker> jenkins, mail sent
<jenkins> great daker
<brettalton> daker: did you have a look at the contact us section of the website yet?
<brettalton> also, I think I have a branch ready to be merged
<daker> brettalton, give me the link
<brettalton> I fixed my problem though so I started editing the main branch, instead of making my own and requesting branches
<brettalton> it's all in the main branch
<daker> i'll take a look
<brettalton> I did all the html/css and tried to do some django
<brettalton> but I need your help finishing it
<brettalton> and then the site is good to go
<daker> i alerady merged you branch in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/website/revision/4
<daker> brettalton, also if you want to help with the ubuntu manual website you are welcome
<brettalton> daker: maybe I didn't upload it... it was a minor, unimportant change anyway
<brettalton> but nonetheless, I still need django help on the contact form
<daker> oki
<daker> i'll start working on that
<jenkins> daker and brettalton https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/quickshot_art has the new quickshot logos / icons
<daker> jenkins, oki
<daker> brb
<jenkins> thanks :)
 * jenkins has given the launchpad page them new branding
<brettalton> jenkins: hmm, okay I'll work on that
<jenkins> I am happy to change them over if you like, just show me how
<jenkins> is is case of just wirting the new ones over the old ones?
<jenkins> thanks for all your work so far daker and brettalton
<brettalton> jenkins: no prob. I'm sure that's all that needs to be done, but need not waste your time
<jenkins> let me know if there is anything i can do.
<daker> jenkins, how can we test qs ?
<jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release and use the url http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/test thats the test project. qs still needs some gui tweaks but it all workds
<daker> oh next Saturday is the SFD
<jenkins> sfd?
<jenkins> screen shot final deadline?
<daker> Software Freedom Day
<daker> \o/
<jenkins> we just need to add the screenshots to the server but we don't know what ones are needed
<jenkins> o right silly me
<daker> the meeting should be reported to Monday instead of Saturday
<daker> btw qs has a nice ui
<jenkins> thanks, it still needs tweaking. when i get a moment or two
#ubuntu-manual 2011-09-06
 * popey blows the dust off
<popey> what's the state of the manual project now, someone was asking me earlier.
<popey> plans for 11.04 or 11.10 releases?
 * thorwil watches as the dust clouds raised by popey settle slowly
<popey> :D
#ubuntu-manual 2011-09-07
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Are you up?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-09-10
<benonsoftware> Hi all
<benonsoftware> Sorry but I don't think I'll be able to come to tomarrows meeting
<c7p> hello all
<rickfosb> hello all.  sorry I'm late
<hannie> hi everyone
<hannie> 1 second late, shame on you ;)
<godbyk> hey, rickfosb, hannie.
<hannie> hi godbyk
<rickfosb> godbyk: hey!
<hannie> hi c7p
<rickfosb> hi c7p
<hannie> rickfosb, I have added a few things to the spreadsheet's proposed outline (ubunru-desktop)
<hannie> *ubuntu
<rickfosb> great, hannie, I'll take a look
<rickfosb> I think I'm going to be ready for winter: way too many things going on around here. :-)
<godbyk> do you want this to be a formal meeting (i.e., using MootBot) or an informal one?
<rickfosb> We have an agenda, lets log this one.
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:06. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Status of 11.04 Ubuntu Manual
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status of 11.04 Ubuntu Manual
<godbyk> So... what is our status?
<rickfosb> I see that we made some progress a week or so back, especially with our working sessions. ...,
<rickfosb> However,  I realized that some of the actions noted in the spreadsheet, dont' seem to have been 'pushed'
<godbyk> Right now we're still working toward M3?
<godbyk> [LINK] Meeting agenda: http://ietherpad.com/lxgwiK08tE
<MootBot> LINK received:  Meeting agenda: http://ietherpad.com/lxgwiK08tE
<rickfosb> godbyk: yes M3
<c7p> hey all
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<hannie> hi c7p
<rickfosb> I 'think' we're down to 7 or 8 regulars and some of the authors and editors that are shown, did some early work 'in the spreadsheet' at least, but not in the tex files we have.
<rickfosb> hey c7p
<godbyk> rickfosb: Do you have the link to the spreadsheet handy?
<c7p> rickfosb: have you any feedback from the authors ? you sent them all an email
<rickfosb> sure standby
<hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CNDambUJ&key=0AtkeORuPIMxsdGtWRXlvdHB4bktTNkF5LTNwWU5KQnc&hl=en_US&authkey=CNDambUJ#gid=6
<rickfosb> none;  I sent two mails, one to ubuntu-manual, and one to the individuals
<rickfosb> thanks hannie
<godbyk> rickfosb: thanks.
<hannie> rickfosb, you did not get feedback on those emails?
<c7p> :/
<rickfosb> for instance, if you look at hardware preferences, there are lots of notations, but unless I'm missing it, I don't see it in the tex files.  No, hannie,  no feedback
<rickfosb> We had a couple of folks, formally leave for work load reasons.
<hannie> I see no names on the Hardware Preferences sheets, does that mean nobody is working on those subjects?
<godbyk> I've been out of the loop for a little bit.  So people are making suggestions/reporting bugs in this spreadsheet, but no one has corrected the .tex files.  Is that correct?
<c7p> this is getting frustrating
<rickfosb> the names are in the first tab.  I don't generally 'type' on the chapter tabs so the original team made those remarks... godbyk, correct
<c7p> godbyk: yes
<hannie> I see Chris as one of the authors. It's a pity he is not here
<rickfosb> I suppose, we could tackle a chapter a week (the small group); but I hate to do it that way...,
<godbyk> Has all of the content been written?
<c7p> yea
<hannie> By the time we're finished we will be in Oneiric
<rickfosb> I think prologue just needs a re read and done, same with chap 1 and 2
<godbyk> If most of the items in the spreadsheet are just 'change this text to this other text', then I can modify the .tex files fairly quickly.
<rickfosb> The other chapters probably need less work; but I've not gone through them like i did with 1 and 2
<godbyk> I don't know that I have time to write new content at the moment, though.
<c7p> i have some time, but my ubuntu pc is broken :/
<rickfosb> godbyk: same problem here...  real job is taking 10 - 11 hours / day... so, I've been stretched recently
<rickfosb> the writers show trouble shooting as finished;  I'll need to verify their text. maybe they pushed it very early
<c7p> maybe we could "cut" the advanced topics so the manual will become more viable
<hannie> rickfosb, do we need a reshuffle of tasks?
<c7p> troubleshooting needs a section for unity btw
<rickfosb> hannie, we could try that with a note to the mail list.
<c7p> i think hannie is right, since authors don't seem alive :P
<godbyk> There have only been 40 commits to the repository so far: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/natty/changes
<rickfosb> OK,  I will send one on one emails tonight to each of the 'missing in action' folks.  Those who do not respond, I'll move to the 'quiet' list. and See about re assigning those of us who do respond
<hannie> I wanted to suggest to let editors of one chapter read chapters of others
<hannie> but I think we do not have enough active people to do so
<rickfosb> Did you guys see this: http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/
<rickfosb> Disscusses shortened release process...  talk about between a rock and a hard place
<rickfosb> :)
<rickfosb> I'll take the action of doing one on one emails to authors and editors to see whose 'alive';  I'll use the mailing list to inform you guys of movement on the chapters.  hannie, have you pushed the changes to ch2 you wanted to make?
<godbyk> That'd certainly make things more... interesting. :)
<c7p> seems interesting i've read the half article
<godbyk> rickfosb: If you need someone to go through that spreadsheet and push bug fixes to the .tex files, I'm happy to help with that.
<hannie> rickfosb, I sent you the .tex file because I wanted to let a "native speaker" have a look at my suggestions
<rickfosb> for us to get on a six month cycle, we'd need to leverage our work; make the manual highly linked to existing text elsewhere i suspect
<godbyk> rickfosb: I think that's a good idea.  I think that we also need to do a lot better job of (a) getting a lot more people involved, and (b) making it a lot easier for people to write and edit the content.
<rickfosb> godbyk Sure, pick a chapter and we'll leave as is until you're ready for some help
<rickfosb> godbyk; agree with making it easy to submit content
<hannie> +1
<godbyk> rickfosb: I can take a look at the hardware chapter first.
<c7p> +1
<rickfosb> What about a wiki version of the manual - that we would use as source for the actual tex files?  people seem to love 'tweaking' wiki pages... might be a mess thought
<godbyk> Toward the goal of making it easier to submit/edit content, I think that moving to a web-based editing system would be helpful.  Unfortunately, this entails finding some competent web developers to help us out.
<rickfosb> *though
<hannie> godbyk, what about having people send in just plain text and let others do the fancy things like adding code and the like?
<godbyk> rickfosb: Ben Humphrey and I had originally thought of having a wiki system that was moderated and also imposed a little structure.  We never got around to implementing any of it, though.
<rickfosb> godbyk agree.  and the hosting
<godbyk> hannie: That'd be fine, too.  I'm happy to handle the market.
<godbyk> I think we need to find ways to enable drive-by editing and commenting.
<c7p> godbyk: could we use google docs somehow ?
<rickfosb> godbyk +1
<godbyk> I should be able to quickly fix errors, point out bugs, suggest new content, etc. as I'm reading the manual.
<godbyk> At the same time (as long as I'm dreaming), I'd like to see this tightly coupled to a translation system that works much better than our current translation process.
<rickfosb> I dont' want to loose site of this, and yet want to complete natty...,  Are there any 'launchpad' type tools to help kick off the wiki?
<rickfosb> or a wiki like page?
<godbyk> rickfosb: I'm not aware of any Launchpad tools for wiki stuff, though they may exist.
<c7p> godbyk: i have a plan in my mind about the translation system what can be done, i'll share them soon as long as they become a complete answer
<hannie> I have a very weird idea: why don't we skip Natty and inmediately start working on Oneiric?
<godbyk> I don't think we want to just have a wiki site, either, as then we're just duplicating help.ubuntu.com.
<rickfosb> I'll go peek around and see what's there.  I don't even mind 'hosting' the site if that's what it takes.
<rickfosb> Do we want to vote on hannie's weird idea?  (not all that weird)
<godbyk> rickfosb: Something else we can do to get comments/edits on our PDF is to upload it to http://a.nnotate.com/.
<rickfosb> I noted that there will be no Dutch translation due to lateness of our work here.
<godbyk> That site allows people to view the PDF via the website and click to add a comment on the PDF pages.  Then we can incorporate those into the .tex files.
<hannie> true
<c7p> to be honest, ignore translations, who will read a manual of a previous Ubuntu release ?
<rickfosb> godbyk I've not seen that before.  easy to implement?  c7p :-))
<c7p> oneiric is right on the corner
<hannie> c7p and who will read natty when we are almost in oneiric
<c7p> hannie: that's what is said :P
<godbyk> rickfosb: I'm not sure what the costs are now, but it's something they host. So you just sign up, upload the pdf, and let people point out all your typos.
<rickfosb> hey i bought maverick!   (but my names in the index :)) )
<godbyk> rickfosb: It's easy to add notes to the PDFs on the site. I've used it when I was helping edit a textbook.
<hannie> c7p I mean the English version, not the translation
<rickfosb> oh.. -- think we'd need a more Ubuntu specific group of readers!
<c7p> hannie: me too
<godbyk> as far as translations go, I think the biggest problem is that our tools basically invalidate the previous editions translated text because they're not smart enough to point out that some of the changes are minor and may not even require re-translation.
<rickfosb> Semi-fearless leader here:  what do we want to do
<godbyk> Well, if we decide to skip the natty release, when can we start on onieric?
<c7p> maybe we shouldn't rush :D
<hannie> godbyk, it works (partly) with the ubuntu-docs, I mean transferring translations to a newer version
<rickfosb> godbyk: wouldn't we need to start, now? with the current tex files and some sort of view to the new software
<c7p> i think first we have to change somehow the function of the project/the process of writing
<rickfosb> c7p +/-1
<hannie> godbyk, it only needs installation of the beta version of oneiric
<c7p> godbyk and rickfosb through some ideas before
<rickfosb> can i triple boot? I'm already dual
<godbyk> rickfosb: certainly we'd need to bring things up to date that are still written for maverick.  is oneiric at a state where things have settled enough that we're comfortable writing about it?
<hannie> rickfosb, how about virtualBox?
<rickfosb> hannie virtualBox?
<c7p> yeah virtualbox is a good solution if your machine is strong
<rickfosb> oh! gotcha
<hannie> rickfosb, you can install oneiric beta in a virtual machine
<godbyk> I think that if we skip the natty release, we should spend some of that time fixing our project's structure (e.g., finding participants, improving the process, etc.).  otherwise I fear we'll be in the same boat again a few months later.
<rickfosb> I might could push the old box to do that...,
<rickfosb> godbyk +1
<c7p> totally ! +1
<rickfosb> To that end: we need a process that allows for moderated drive by authoring/editing
<c7p> even if we published natty we would have to look on these issues
<rickfosb> some 'key' individual die hards that we can trust to stay on top of things
<godbyk> rickfosb: agreed.
<c7p> yeah
<rickfosb> and the promise of all the ice cream you can eat for completing your content on time :)
<godbyk> heh
<c7p> well i think everyone here has ideas
<rickfosb> It'd melt by the time I ship from Texas
<hannie> discipline!
<rickfosb> my kind of girl!  ;)
<godbyk> So I guess the current question is: Do we drop natty?
<c7p> maybe we could write them down organise them a bit and concetrate them on the next meeting
<hannie> I suggested it, so I am for it
<godbyk> I'm fairly ambivalent about it, to be honest.
<rickfosb> I agree;
<hannie> godbyk, what's your problem?
<rickfosb> I hate to 'lose' the work done, but dont' want to spend the next 5 years 1.5 releases behind
<godbyk> hannie: No problem. I just don't have an opinion on the matter one way or another.
<godbyk> I'm eager to try to reboot/revitalize the project, however. I still think it has a lot of merit.
<hannie> I think at this moment we ask too much of a very small group of people (especially Rick)
<rickfosb> godbyk, is there an html to latex tool?  I love the look and feel of the pdf and am concerned that drive by could break that
<godbyk> rickfosb: There are ways to convert from html to latex, yeah.
<rickfosb> not me;  I'm just hearding cats most of the time... (smile)
<rickfosb> thanks, godbyk, just thinking ahead
<hannie> godbyk, doesn't LibreOffice writer has the possibility to write pdf?
<hannie> *have
<godbyk> I think when the project first started, we had a lot of excitement and momentum because, well, it was new.  Lots of people love writing new content and being able to claim they're a writer/author.
<godbyk> But now that a lot of text has been written, no one wants to take on the boring job of merely editing/updating it.
<rickfosb> then it gets to be work
<godbyk> hannie: I think it does, though I don't think the result is as good as latex generates.
<c7p> btw authors dont have to write in latex, i can convert their content/text to latex
<godbyk> Right now if someone notices a typo in the manual or a section that's out of date, they have to install TeX Live (a 2 GB download), grab our code from bzr, learn latex, modify the .tex file, and push the changes back.  That's a *lot* of work.
<godbyk> (Alternatively, they could file a bug, but I don't think many people have been doing that.)
<rickfosb> not many
<godbyk> Have many of our authors been taking us up on that option, c7p?
<godbyk> Our process and toolchain is a bit of hack.  We just mashed together the tools we could find at the time that would get the job done.
<c7p> i dont think they know that i offer to do this
<c7p> +1
<rickfosb> Do we want to take the issue to the 'greater' team at large or make a decision on natty here?
<godbyk> I think that, at some point, we should clearly define the goals of our project and then spend some time and effort into creating a process and toolchain that helps us most easily achieve those goals.
<rickfosb> godbyk +1
<hannie> Is this a formal meeting where everyone is supposed to be present?
<c7p> godbyk: +1
<rickfosb> How about a 'formal' meeting with that as the agenda: retool, reboot, and get started?
<hannie> rickfosb, +1
<rickfosb> Might take more than one meeting.
<godbyk> rickfosb: We could open up the topic on the mailing list for a week or so to get an idea for how others feel about it.  I'm a bit hesitant to take a vote on the topic when there are only four of us present, but then it seems that there aren't many other active participants to ask anyway.
<c7p> i think this meeting is formal too
<godbyk> rickfosb: I think that'd be a good idea.
<rickfosb> godbyk agree, there are too few of us today to make this particular change.  I'll work up a nice letter and state our case.
<hannie> I think for an important decision like this we have to get as many people as possible together
<c7p> whatever
<godbyk> c7p: feeling ambivalent, too? :-)
<rickfosb> c7p  what would you like?
<hannie> ambivalent = do not know ;)
<godbyk> Shall we set a meeting for next weekend to take a formal vote?
<godbyk> hannie: ambivalent: Having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something
<c7p> nah,i agree we have to talk about the core/function of the project
<godbyk> hannie: or "I don't care"
<c7p> im sure that even if we have to vote on a formal meeting others will agree on this
<rickfosb> is next weekend enought time?
<rickfosb> I'll put the poll into the letter to the mailing list if you want
<godbyk> rickfosb: Probably.  I don't see a lot of point in dragging out.  The sooner we can make a decision the sooner we can either get natty released or move on to oneiric.
<godbyk> rickfosb: that's a good idea.
<rickfosb> ok, c7p hannie?
<hannie> next weekend fine with me
<c7p> even tomorrow is fine for me :P
<hannie> I am away from sept21-oct3
<c7p> i think we can set a poll that will close mid week
<rickfosb> ok, I'll work up an email with a meeting poll and agenda... you guys get some sleep, its still early here
<rickfosb> Sure!
<c7p> the options could be: continue natty, not continue
<c7p> then we can see the subject of the next meeting
<hannie> thanks, rickfosb, godbyk, c7p
<hannie> see you all next time
<godbyk> thanks for staying up late, hannie and c7p!
<rickfosb> thanks guys!
<c7p> hannie: cya
<hannie> You're welcome
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:03.
<c7p> rickfosb godbyk do you need me for anything ?
<godbyk> c7p: I don't at the moment.  You should get some sleep! :)
<rickfosb> No c7p, I'm just reading the notes
<c7p> oke
<rickfosb> I do appreciate your help
<c7p> good evening
<rickfosb> both of you
<c7p> thx
<rickfosb> good evening
<c7p> send me mail for whatever you need
<rickfosb> yes sir
<godbyk> thanks, c7p!
<rickfosb> I always do!!!1
<godbyk> heh
<rickfosb> :)
<rickfosb> i'd better get a beverage... this needs to be cogent..  (laugh)
<godbyk> rickfosb: ha!
<godbyk> rickfosb: btw, here are some of the notes that humphreybc and I made eons ago about creating a new website for the ubuntu manual project: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<godbyk> I think that the Ask Ubuntu site may cover some of this ground now, but the manual/wiki editing stuff is probably still valid.
<rickfosb> k thanks,  I'm looking at the help site as well... want to see what they publish
<rickfosb> I think if we had a larger audience, and a place to work (google docs, is ok, but ... not) we could get a lot more done
<rickfosb> especially, if we could still output to printed matter...
<rickfosb> have a good one godbyk,  I'm going to wander off for a few...
<godbyk> see ya later, rickfosb.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-03
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie
<hannie> hey CarstenG
<hannie> how are you doing?
<CarstenG> Well, I'm fine.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-05
<CarstenG> Hi at all
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-06
<CarstenG> Hi together
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-07
<CarstenG> Hi together
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-08
<CrazyLemon> hey guys
<CrazyLemon> i was wondering if there is any way to submit translated cover to the ubuntu manual project?
<CarstenG> hi
<CarstenG> at all
<R33D3M33R> hello, so a year and a half ago i asked when the website translations will be updated ... do you know now?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-09
<CarstenG> Hi at all
<sagaci> hi CarstenG
