#ayatana 2009-05-11
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<rev0871> gn
#ayatana 2009-05-12
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<seele> are features such as display time and display position in the spec or is that controlled by the display function?
<agateau> seele: the galago spec let an application specifies a timeout, but no positioning
<seele> agateau: thanks for your response on the ml
<agateau> seele: you're welcome
<mahfouz> what is this # about?
<mahfouz> somebody referred me here but i cant see any buddhism
<mahfouz> yet
<SiDi> mahfouz: this channel is about... kittens !
<SiDi> (It's the new channel of the Ubuntu Desktop Experience team, afaik)
<mahfouz> but it says "bug hunt"
<SiDi> yeh, cause bugs annoy kittens. :[
<SiDi> I think the topic is not very up-to-date, but its not really important imo :P
<mahfouz> so what is important?
<artir> the way your perceive information
<artir> such as a kitten is running towards you
<mahfouz> is this a zeitgeist clone?
<artir> or a friend has sent you a message saying "i like catz"
<artir> mahfouz: no
<artir> mahfouz: zeitgeist deals with browsing information in time instead of in a hierarchy
<mahfouz> you should clone the kittens into penguins
<doctormo> artir: that's not right, it should be "i luz catz"
<artir> mahfouz: ayatana is a broader project and sponsored by Canonical 
<SiDi> mahfouz: penguins lack the typical sexiness of kittens
<artir> Catz says: All your base are belong to us
<mahfouz> so the new ubuntu theme will have catz
<SiDi> and all your milk !
<artir> tes
<SiDi> mahfouz: exactly, but its still a secret
<artir> don't tell anyone, rught?
<artir> *right
<mahfouz> tell me the secret
<SiDi> and the notifications mewed by kittens in 9.10
<artir> mahfouz: you need to torture mark shuttleworth to get it
<artir> XD
<mahfouz> one his blog?
<SiDi> you cant torture his blog
<mahfouz> I want to see the new theme, that's why I'm really here
<SiDi> you have to torture himself !
<SiDi> mahfouz: come at the Ubuntu Developer Summit then ;)
<mahfouz> i wont be in barcelona, so i cannot
<artir> sidi: I have slaves that will go for me mwahahaha
<SiDi> get an internet connection and follow it via icecast.ubuntu.com
<artir> sidi: hidden cameras ftw just in case
<mahfouz> i was in barcelona 3 weeks ago, i know a nice place to stay if you still need it
<SiDi> artir: heh :D i'm ok to be your slave if its all paid :O
<SiDi> mahfouz: i know a wonderful bar with delicious patitas de calamar there :p that fits my needs :p
<artir> sidi: XD, I already have an slave that lives near barcelona
<artir> Good Food:
<mahfouz> so what about the rumour that there wont be a new theme for karmic?
<artir> 1.- Paella and Iberian rice
<artir> 2.- Pan amb tomaquets(and maybe serrano ham too)
<SiDi> mahfouz: ask Mark Shuttleworth ^^
<artir> 3.- Spanish omelette
<SiDi> artir: yar, serrano :p
<mahfouz> he does not reply
 * SiDi is shocked by the popularity of the tortilla :P
<artir> sidi: i live in spain and i have the fridge full of it
<artir> mwahahahaha
<artir> we have an entire pig leg converted into ham here
<SiDi> heh
<SiDi> finished mine today :p
<SiDi> Was in St Feliu de Guixols, between Gerona and Barcelona this week-end
<SiDi> ended up cutting wood in the mountain instead of working my exams x_x
<artir> Best way to have serrano: Get a bread(ciabbatta or similar), put inside cheese and serrano ham, to the oven 30 minutes, 180 degress, get out, put some tomato, olive oil and eat
<mahfouz> ok, so let's put butter to the kittens
<SiDi> mahfouz: what the hell ! raping forbidden, you're warned
<mahfouz> will the new ubuntu theme still have the windows window border
<mahfouz> i mean the _,box,x
<mahfouz> is this still fashionable
<mahfouz> you know what I mean
 * SiDi doesnt.
<mahfouz> I think many people will reject a theme just for that
<artir> mahfouz: what's wrong with - box x?
<mahfouz> they want to see something else
<mahfouz> it's worn out
<artir> mahfouz: it's better than mac's one at least
<mahfouz> most people would prefer mac's red lights
<mahfouz> this is the first thing that sticks when you see a new theme
<mahfouz> so imho it's important
<mahfouz> and it's what you see whenever you close a window
<SiDi> honnestly, if they ship ubuntu with a mac-like theme, i'll find myself another distro ! (xubuntu for instance :])
<artir> mahfouz: they have rooms full of slaves, working 25/7 (yes, 25) on it
<ryanprior> Mac's theme is iconic, it wouldn't do us any good to mimic it.
<artir> mahfouz: it'll be great
<mahfouz> they cannot really do mac because that would make them look like idiots
<artir> anyone here is from canonical?
<mahfouz> but something different from the old stuff
<mahfouz> aha, so you guys are just trolls like me?
<mahfouz> nobody here from the team?
<artir> i'm not a troll
<artir> troll= user that you don't want to have in a chat
<SiDi> in fact, kittens want artir !
<mahfouz> trolling is an art form
<mahfouz> a good troll is not easy
<mahfouz> has to be learned
<SiDi> hi !
<ryanprior> For example, mahfouz is trolling very badly right now.
<mahfouz> artir: so how do you know the theme will be great
<mahfouz> ryanprior: thx, it's an honor
<artir> artir: i have faith in canonical
<SiDi> artir is a spy from microsoft, watching progress made by caninocal </troll>
<mahfouz> artir: but they promised a new theme since 7.10
<artir> artir: when i've said ubuntuX+1 will be great in countless times, i've always been right from my point of view
<artir> no
<mahfouz> and it never happened
<artir> from 6.10
<mrooney> SiDi: good morning! (well, for me anyway :)
<artir> but this time they have promised to show some at the UDS
<SiDi> mrooney: just finished dinner here :> we're so *not* synced :p
<mrooney> haha
<mahfouz> artir: they retracted their promise
<mahfouz> check the thread
<artir> which one?
<artir> SiDi: OMG, you have discovered me!
 * artir throws SiDi a 200 kg EULA
<ryanprior> Also, in his Ubuntu Open Week discussion, SABDFL said that work on the new theme probably won't be visible until 10.04 at the earliest.
 * SiDi gives the EULA to an almighty FSF kitten which tears it in pieces.
<SiDi> He said it won't be complete afaik
<artir> but he said that we will get a sneek peek
<mahfouz> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1140246
<mahfouz> not complete means no sandwich
<artir> Come to UDS for a preview of the whole new look.
<artir> that is
<artir> i'm pretty darn confident we'll have a new look for 10.04 but i think only pieces of that will emerge for 9.10
<ryanprior> The ridiculous thing is, in the time since 7.10 when we were first supposed to get the new theme, lots of people have made new themes. It can be done and has been done, by artists in their spare time. Until Canonical comes forth and shows everybody what they're cooking, it's all just more smoke.
<mahfouz> kittens will starve until 10.04
<artir> they have done something they didn't do before: to say they have something and that they will show it
<mahfouz> but after retracting, do they even show anything at UDS
<mahfouz> nobody know atm
<ryanprior> We'll see soon enough whether they've really got anything to show. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they just want to make an Apple-like theatrical release.
<mahfouz> it would be silly to make a theatrical release if it's not in karmic
<artir> maybe mark shuttleworth does a keynote
<artir> and reveals what is to come
<artir> (Steve J. style)
<ryanprior> Right, it better be something of that magnitude.
<GreySim_> He should come onto stage wearing a black turtleneck.
<mahfouz> it would probably be more like a mourning dress than a turtleneck
<artir> or a space suit
<mahfouz> if there is no new theme in karmic then space is the only safe place left
<SiDi> mrooney: got my answer on the bug report for column colors ? :p
<SiDi> ah yeh, you got it
#ayatana 2009-05-13
<thekorn> hi, I've a question about using NotifyOSD with pynotify: which hints are supported for Notification objects?
<thekorn> especially: should setting the "x" and "y" hint work?
<thekorn> and yes, I would like to change the position of a bubble
<agateau> thekorn: no they are not, and are unlikely to be supported in the future
<SiDi> thekorn: you can't change it ;)
<thekorn> ok, so you do not intend to completly implement the notification spec ?!
<SiDi> I think it's more or less the idea (im speaking as an user though)
<SiDi> Because having notifications on every part of the screen just sucks :)
<thekorn> and why is it not reflected in pynotify.get_server_caps()?
<SiDi> that's a more interesting concern
<SiDi> you might want to ask MacSlow.
<agateau> thekorn: the spec says supporting those hints is not mandatory
<SiDi> but if its not supported it should be in get_server_caps
<MacSlow> thekorn, grab notify-osd trunk and check out th python-examples in notify-osd/examples/*.py
<thekorn> agateau, ok, good point
 * SiDi waves at MacSlow.
<MacSlow> thekorn, that's got everything you need to properly test for supported caps
<MacSlow> ola SiDi 
<MacSlow> thekorn, it's ready to cut&paste code, so you should be able to get on with you work quickly
<james_w> there's no specified cap for this
<james_w> it would be possible to add an x-canonical- capability
<MacSlow> thekorn, notify-osd takes the liberty to ignore the (optional) x/y-hints
<thekorn> MacSlow, ok, so my question is: why is there no "does not support x,y hint" capability
<james_w> but adding a capability to only not set it would be odd
<james_w> http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/0.9/x408.html
<agateau> thekorn: this needs to be added to the Galago spec
 * agateau notes this
<MacSlow> thekorn, because that feature causes overlapping notifications
<agateau> MacSlow: i think thekorn means he would like to test whether we support it or not
<agateau> but galago spec does not provide a cap we could set to false atm
<thekorn> wow, this is complex
<MacSlow> indeed, right now it's only spit out as a remark that x/y-hints are not supported in the examples
<agateau> thekorn: you may also want to have a look at this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~agateau/notify-osd/take2/annotate/head%3A/tests/notifyosd.py
<agateau> for inspiration
<thekorn> ok, thanks everbody, maybe I have to review my usage of notifyosd, that's what I have so far http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/174479/recordmydesktop_visualizer.ogv
<thekorn> but maybe I have to use my own window for this
<MacSlow> thekorn, gee... is that just for "messing around" or do you want to really develop that into something serious?
<MacSlow> thekorn, I feel that you might be "abusing" notifications there a bit :)
<thekorn> MacSlow, I've never done any serious things, so it is just for messing around ;)
<MacSlow> phew ok :)
<agateau> fun anyway
<MacSlow> for sure
<thekorn> and yes, it is abusing of the notification system
<MacSlow> thekorn, I guess you wanted the bubble to appear at the text-cursor position then or something, right? ;)
<thekorn> MacSlow, no just in the region of the screen which is recorded
 * MacSlow -> lunch
#ayatana 2009-05-14
 * MacSlow -> lunch
#ayatana 2009-05-15
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<kenvandine> tedg: one of the foresight devs is writing a xfce panel plugin for the indicator :)
<tedg> kenvandine: Oh, cool.  Using the listener interface or the libindicator in trunk?
<kenvandine> not sure
<kenvandine> he just told me he started it
<kenvandine> he maintains the xfce edition 
<kenvandine> should i point him at trunk?
<tedg> kenvandine: Ah, okay.  If you get a chance, push towards libindicator.
<tedg> Yeah, it makes it so that everything isn't hard coded.
<tedg> .pc fies and the such instead of values in C files.
<tedg> Version 2 clean up type stuff :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> ok, he's using trunk
<topyli> and this is why you gotta love foresight. always hip with the latest niceties :)
<DGMurdockIII> hi
<SiDi> hi
<maco> DGMurdockIII, note that i pointed you here with "if you want to help" before you repeat the same as in -motu
<ScottK> maco: User feedback is help.
<DGMurdockIII> is there going to be a control pantel like windows has
<maco> ScottK, well, there's a difference between the constructive sort that points out specific areas of weakness and a general "this sucks"
<maco> DGMurdockIII, that has existed for years
<maco> edit the menu. GNOME Control Center is available in there (installed by default) already
<maco> though i'd quite like to see it become a default menu option
<ScottK> maco: Sure.  It's a fine line.  This was described as an experiment, so 'experiment failed' is a possible outcome.
 * SiDi personally thinks control panels get quickly overcrowded and unusable
<DGMurdockIII> yes me to but id like to see a ubuntu one with is made for ubuntu
<maco> SiDi, and the system -> preferences menu doesn't? it's too tall for a 1280x800 screen
<maco> DGMurdockIII, why?
<DGMurdockIII> that why
<maco> i'd think that'd just make it harder when you switch distros, because then things would move around instead of being in their expected GNOMEy place
<ScottK> maco: In many ways the look and feel of Ubuntu's Gnome departs from upstream, so I think that horse left the barn a long time ago.
<SiDi> maco: i'm under XFCE, cant say :)
<maco> the icon theme's different, yes, but what else?
<DGMurdockIII> there all theses littel thinks you guys could do that could make the expernise better
<maco> i know fedora & ubuntu disagree on where the terminal goes in the applications menu (accessories v. utilities), but not much else i've noticed
<DGMurdockIII> and i had a hell of a time getting my sound to work througt HDMI
<SiDi> DGMurdockIII: it doesnt have much to do with control panels though.
<maco> or likely with the GUI
<DGMurdockIII> yeah i now
<SiDi> When you test a new OS, you should be very aware that the design and UI are different, and not let yourself be influenced by your habits. If you weren't used to windows's control panel, you'd probably not want to use one ;
<maco> the audio stack is a pain --> well known. one of the audio people rants about it to me nearly daily :)
<DGMurdockIII> why dont you guy just rewrite the audio statck if it that bad
<maco> SiDi, I disagree. Windows, OSX, and KDE all have some sort of control panel
<maco> because it'll take probably 5 years just to get current stuff working, without adding support for new hardware produced in that time
<ScottK> DGMurdockIII: That takes a different expertise than U/I work.
<lamalex> DGMurdockIII: it's in the process of happening 
<lamalex> sort of
<dtchen> no, we're tacking on layers like patchwork. anyhow, none of this has to do with this channel, so please stay on-topic.
<maco> yeah, the bottom layer's being fixed as people realize high-level bandaids dont cut it. fixing the bottom layer one which *other* high level bandaids depend then breaks those bandaids so you get net *more* breakage as you try to fix things
<DGMurdockIII> what do you guys think about doing somthing like this for system menu http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=222546
<SiDi> maco: and i personally am so unhappy with those messy panels with tons of options :)
<ScottK> Personally I'm a fan of options, but then I use KDE.
<maco> SiDi, i used it as a backup (when i used gnome). things i normally use go in preferences and the rest of the stuff goes in the control panel
<ScottK> I'd rather be the one that determines how my computer will best work for me.
 * maco still avoids looking in the Settings menu in KDE apps unless really necessary
<SiDi> when i was still in GNOME i was just firing out the menu entries i didn't need. never used the panel
<SiDi> maco: same :) it gets me totally lost
<ScottK> maco: Of course.  Why would you be looking at setting unless you wanted to change something?
<maco> ScottK, no no, its "unless you really REALLY need to change something"
<ScottK> Heh.
<maco> if it's just "want" i'll generally learn to deal with the default to avoid widget overload (which is, thankfully, less prevalent in kde4 than it was in kde3)
<maco> DGMurdockIII, so anyway you're not happy with notify-osd. other than "actions" "colors" and "placement" (raised often) what are things about it that you think need changing?
<DGMurdockIII> when it pops up the computer memory spiks
<DGMurdockIII> i ment this for the control panel like http://www.frettts-freeware.de/software/OS/ubuntu-screens/ubuntu-controlcenter.png
<lamalex> thats the gnome control panel
<DGMurdockIII> ye
<DGMurdockIII> i now
<DGMurdockIII> yes i now but now take a look at this http://steve-o.org/files/images/a/ubuntu-control-center.png
<DGMurdockIII> see the difference
<DGMurdockIII> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Yast.png
<DGMurdockIII> and open suse is even a littel better than the defult one
<GreySim_> Both of the last two seem to lack search, which I'm starting to really enjoy, but in an ideal setup, probably wouldn't be needed.
<lamalex> theyre all kind of crappy honestly
<lamalex> those style interfaces get cluttered so quickly
<lamalex> and imo the standard gnome one is the best
<lamalex> the ubuntu-one is ok, but it only has for categories, it wont scale to a real environment
<DGMurdockIII> vbut you can improve i now it not perfect
<DGMurdockIII> just lioke the gnome one is not perfect
<DGMurdockIII> i thnk windows 7 control panel is actally a good way to do it i mean the way they have layed out there control panel
<lamalex> point out specific failings, i can't think of a way to improve them, but again because im of the disposition that those style interfaces are always bad
<lamalex> and dont assume familiarity with windows, i have no idea what windows control center looks like
<DGMurdockIII> this is not what control pannel look like in wwindows 7 but when you install ubuntu you shold have somthing like this come up http://www.windows7buzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/windows7-m3-control-panel.png
<DGMurdockIII> http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/windows7controlpanel.png
<DGMurdockIII> there is the windows 7 control panel
<DGMurdockIII> im not say you copy it exzaty it the way you see on the picture but it a start
<DGMurdockIII> what is the perpose of the top bar in gnome
<DGMurdockIII> i ment bottom bar
<topyli> DGMurdockIII: i have no idea, except that you can use the corners for something useful if you have a panel there :/
<topyli> i always remove the panel
<DGMurdockIII> ok
<topyli> there's the window list but it might as well be in the top panel, lots of empty space there for it
<SiDi> DGMurdockIII: it's not because you're used to the windows way that it's the most relevant one. And windows tend to be the worst when it comes to UI ergonomy / usability.
<SiDi> night people
#ayatana 2009-05-17
<SiDi> hello
#ayatana 2010-05-17
<C10uD> does appindicator update its submenu-s if i add(edit) new widgets to them?
<C10uD> Nafai, do you know anything about this? :)
<nigelb> Nafai: poke
<qense> good afternoon
<tedg> qense: Good morning ;)
<qense> tedg: aw, I'm jealous at the amount of day you've still got left
<nigelb> Nafai: hey
<Nafai> Hey nigelb
<nigelb> did you get a way to get source for all deps?
<Nafai> working on it :)
<nigelb> Nafai: I've got something for you
<nigelb> Nafai: http://justanothertriager.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/uds-m-day-5/
<nigelb> ctrl+f your name ;)
<Nafai> cool, thanks, I'll take a look
<nigelb> :)
#ayatana 2010-05-18
<ivanka> hi doctormo: you there?
#ayatana 2010-05-19
<thorwil> mat_t: good morning! would you agree to have something similar to an Incoming section in the Ayatana wiki, to then keep all concepts and mockups that go beyond theming out of the Artwork area?
<thorwil> this one could be seen as corner case, but i think that's more Ayatana than Artwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/daniel_windicators
<vish> thorwil: you could move it to > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicator/Concepts and it would get included to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana the naivgation at the bottom
<vish> thorwil: there is already https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Workspaces and the /Concepts , so kinda makes the main page the place where accepted work is carried out
<thorwil> vish: yes, but there should be a long term strategy to where we put pages
<vish> thorwil: yup , thats why the Ayatana/Project and the concepts go in Ayatana/Project/Concepts
<vish> thorwil: the mailing list already has too many concepts :D  we have to start sorting now else a general /concepts page would be a mess ;p
<thorwil> vish: so you're in favor of having topics as first level, with Concepts inside
<mat_t> thorwil: hi, sorry, crazy busy atm... makes sense to me, go for it
<thorwil> as opposed to Concepts/Topic
<vish> thorwil: yup. else the topic[when being worked on] would not be a higher level , or we would endup having to create a new level for those :s
<thorwil> vish: ok, bu then we should have some carefully chosen Topics in place. i'll write a proposal and threaten to go ahead with it if nobody stops me :)
<vish> thorwil: bah , ayatana no one is gonna listen ;p  you'll eventually get more topics o.0    ..i would just move it to Ayatana/Windicators/Concepts  ..  and people will catch on with the idea :)
<ivanka> doctormo: hi
<doctormo> hey  ivanka
<ivanka> doctormo: all home and safe?
<doctormo> yep
<ivanka> doctormo: I wanted to follow up on the Free Culture Showcase session and was wondering if we formally attach that project to the deviantart group you have already set up?
<doctormo> yourself?
<doctormo> Sure what would you like to do?
<ivanka> doctormo: home, safe, walked, sore feet, going away for a long weekend - all good!
<ivanka> well
<ivanka> nothing right this very minute because I need to make sure we have sites for all the different types of data
<ivanka> and then I can announce
<ivanka> if we are agree in principle that this is ok - I will ping you an email with some suggested text and we can take it from there - that sound ok?
<doctormo> ivanka: Sounds like a plan
<doctormo> ivanka: At the moment I can make blog entries which are announced to all members, I can't make deviantArt compititions because I believe that requires paying them for the group service. But that shouldn't be required if we have a place to put the artworks and some information to broadcast.
<ivanka> doctormo: perfect. I will be in touch next week after my little holiday
<doctormo> Have a good time!
<seb128> hey kermiac
<seb128> tedg, there?
<kermiac> hey seb128
<tedg> Good morning seb128
<seb128> hey tedg
<seb128> tedg, kermiac is looking at writting apport hooks
<kermiac> hey tedg
<seb128> tedg, do you have any useful hint for indicator-applet out of the logs in .cache
<seb128> what other infos would be useful to collect?
<seb128> having indicator-* versions would be useful too I guess?
<tedg> Yeah, I think those are the most useful.
<seb128> tedg, do you think it should have a "which indicator has an issue?"
<tedg> Are we talking for apport?  If so, I think a wizard to choose which one would be useful.
<seb128> and list all the sound, message, etc
<seb128> which ones would you list?
<tedg> Yeah, also a way to get to the application if that's applicable.
<seb128> the system ones, + a choice for an another software?
<seb128> I'm not sure we can easily handle the "enter an application name"
<tedg> Yup, that's probably the list I'd go for.  Let's see how confused people get :)
<seb128> we can bail out and ask to open a bug again the software though
<tedg> Well, we can query the list of ones running...
<seb128> how?
<seb128> kermiac, can you open a bug to track that?
<seb128> so we can comment in there
<seb128> kermiac, seems we want to collect those .cache logs + have an interactive question "which indicator is having the issue"
<seb128> so it would send the bug to the one selected
<kermiac> seb128: ok, against indicator-applet, right?
<seb128> yes
<tedg> seb128, On Dbus if you call "GetApplications" on org.ayatana.indicator.application it will dump them all.
<kermiac> seb128: ok, I'll do that first thing tomorrow as it's very late here .I'll ping you with the bug #.
<tedg> The first entry is the icon name.  We could probably just show all those.
<seb128> thanks
<kermiac> np
<seb128> tedg, can you drop a comment in the bug when it's opened about this?
<tedg> seb128, Yup.
<tedg> kermiac, Thanks!
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> kermiac, thanks
<kermiac> ok thanks tedg, I'll ping you with the bug # 
<kermiac> np :)
<ejat> hi .. just wanna to ask .. will the new ubuntu font release ? 
<tedg> ejat, It will release with Maverick -- it's still being developed.
<ejat> tedg, owh thanks for the info
<desrt> tedg: hey
<desrt> tedg: i've seen indicator-applet grow to use ~10GB of ram a few times in the past while
<tedg> desrt, Err, that's no good.
<desrt> tedg: appears to be related to the sound indicator.  when rhythmbox is running, the applet and sound indicator are each using ~70% CPU and the leaking is happening
<desrt> heard anything about this?
<tedg> desrt, Just to be curious where did you get 10GB of RAM?
<tedg> :)
<desrt> from dell
<desrt> came with another 2 :)
<tedg> No, I've noticed that there seems to be a leak, but nothing like 10GB.  I got to 100MB after a week.
<tedg> But, I thought that was fixed with the last dbusmenu change.
<desrt> i killed it earlier today when top was saying 10.1g 9.7g for virt/res
<tedg> Mines at 20MB and I've been listening to music all day.
<desrt> one piece of information that may be important is that i rm /usr/bin/pulseaudio
<tedg> Like literally "rm" or "apt-get remove" ?
<desrt> well, "mv"
<desrt> but rm, effectively
<desrt> pulse really really really hates the usb speakers i'm using
<tedg> Hmm, I think that indicator sound will try and start it -- but that should be the indicator-sound-service not indicator-applet
<tedg> So if that was the issue I don't think that indicator-applet would notice.
<desrt> right.  so both of them are using a whole lot of CPU
<desrt> and i'm sitting here watching indicator-applet grow
<desrt> 446m
<desrt> 447
<desrt> 449
<desrt> (that's virtual size)
<desrt> 452
 * tedg is looking for a "watching the grass grow" joke but can't find one.
<desrt> it's a pretty impressive leak :)
<jcastro> it's your day for leaks ted!
<desrt> 15574 desrt     20   0  455m  78m  11m R   68  0.7   5:00.52 indicator-apple     3884 desrt     20   0  277m 5380 4204 R   51  0.0 234:38.27 indicator-sound    
<tedg> Yeah, I know that ronoc had a patch for Pulse restarting... I'm curious if that's in distro.
<desrt> i'm gonna valgrind this sucker
<tedg> Hmm, I don't see any unmerged branches hanging out.
<desrt> hm.  indicator-applet doesn't like running under valgrind
<desrt> but the leak is happening
 * desrt waits a bit
<tedg> I haven't tried that, but you can run the loader which should be happier.
<tedg> apt-get install libindicator-tools
<desrt> it's working except that it shows up as a grey block on the panel
<desrt> instead of drawing its icons
<tedg> $ /usr/lib/libindicator/indicator-loader /usr/lib/indicators/3/libsound.so
<desrt> ==16601== LEAK SUMMARY:
<desrt> ==16601==    definitely lost: 640 bytes in 7 blocks
<desrt> ==16601==    indirectly lost: 368 bytes in 12 blocks
<desrt> ==16601==      possibly lost: 128,870,913 bytes in 962,614 blocks
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> perhaps it is not technically a leak...
<tedg> possibly
<tedg> :)
<desrt> the big leaking happens below dbus_watch_handle
<tedg> Hmm, no function by that name...  up one?
<desrt> lots of ???
<desrt> how am i supposed to be installing the debug version these days?
<tedg> Oh, I think you need another repository...  /me looks
<desrt> ya. ddebs or something
<desrt> i always forget
<tedg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<desrt> there now :)
<desrt> hm.  this isn't nearly as annoying as i had remembered
<desrt> so the weird thing is that all the symbols on the path of the leak are inside dbus
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> it looks like lots of DBusMessages are building up
<desrt> are you doing any peer-to-peer dbus sockets?
<tedg> That seems a little odd.
<tedg> None that I know of.  Perhaps in the Pulse side?
<desrt> could be
<desrt> this is quite obnoxious
<desrt> is indicator-applet using pulse directly?
<tedg> No, it's not.
<desrt> so i guess that's not the case
<tedg> Yeah, there's really nothing interesting on the indicator-applet side of things.
<desrt> ah
<desrt> maybe you're reffing a DBusMessage and not properly unreffing
<desrt> for example
<desrt> ==19745== 418,304 bytes in 2,752 blocks are possibly lost in loss record 6,314 of 6,328
<desrt> ==19745==    at 0x4C274A8: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:236)
<desrt> ==19745==    by 0x96A75FA: dbus_message_new_empty_header (dbus-message.c:966)
<desrt> that seriously points to broken refcounting on a DBusMessage somewhere
<desrt> oh.  heh
<desrt> i just looked at dbus-monitor
<desrt> it's going crazy
<desrt> signal sender=:1.236 -> dest=(null destination) serial=100160962 path=/org/ayatana/indicator/sound/menu; interface=org.ayatana.dbusmenu; member=ItemPropertyUpdated
<tedg> That makes sense, I'm just not sure where'd that be. :-/
<desrt> lots of signals flying around
<desrt> so there's two bugs i guess
<desrt> 1) indicator applet is leaking memory on receiving dbus messages of some kind
<desrt> 2) sound indicator is sending messages like crazy
<desrt> unfortunately valgrind is not very good about telling you the source of the leak...
<desrt> only where the memory in question was allocated
<tedg> Yeah, I think that probably the leak would have to be in dbusmenu.  As nothing above there would get dbus messages.
<desrt> which one are you using?
<desrt> -gtk? -glib?
<tedg> -gtk uses -glib.  So if there's a leak of dbus messages it'd probably be in -glib
<desrt> is this using dbus-glib?
<tedg> Yes
 * desrt starts wondering how deep the rabbit hole goes....
<desrt> libdbusmenu never directly handles DBusMessage
<desrt> wouldn't be surprised if this is a leak in dbus-glib
<desrt> anyway.  #2 is definitely your fault
<desrt> you should fix that :)
<tedg> Heh, for sure.  But, I've got a recreatable test case on a machine that isn't useful to me ;)
<desrt> just rename your pulseaudio bin and run rhythmbox :p
<desrt> and rename back when done
<desrt> i guess you should probably also port dbusmenu to GDBus :)
<desrt> all the cool kids are doing it
<tedg> Yeah, that's definitely on the TODO list.  No love for dbus-glib here.
<desrt> no love anywhere soon, i suspect
<tedg> Err, the signal handling is a bit convoluted here... probably can't get an SRU for the GDBus port :)
<desrt> i guess glib would need to have an SRU first :p
<desrt> seb has mentioned that he intends to semi-officially package new glib for lucid, though
<desrt> for gdbus/gsettings reasons
<tedg> Yes, that's my understanding.  I'm trying to get him to agree to put gtk+ 3 on the CD.
<tedg> He's going to have to agree for N, but it'd be nice for M.
<tedg> Otherwise we really need to back port hadess' symbolic icons patch -- which just seems like a waste of energy.
#ayatana 2010-05-20
<chrisccoulson> desrt, it's funny you should mention a memory leak in some dbusmenu related code - i've seen some users saying today that g-p-m is leaking a lot too (in the appindicator / dbusmenu code)
<desrt> i think the problem is in glib-dbus
<desrt> it's DBusMessages that are leaking
<desrt> and dbusmenu never handles those directly
<desrt> so unless there's some weird indirect effects going on here...
<chrisccoulson> desrt - it's strange that people have only started reporting these issues in the last couple of days
<chrisccoulson> i just had a look to see if there are any likely culprits in the recent uploads, but i can't find any
<desrt> well
<desrt> slow leaks are not noticed
<desrt> the only reason i noticed this is because the sound indicator is going mental
<desrt> and spamming my dbus with dozens of messages per second
<chrisccoulson> i suppose that's true. i don't know how quick these leaks are happening ;)
<qense> good afternoon
<vish> qense: hey 
<qense> hey vish!
<vish> jcastro: qense: looks like nautilus upstream is also moving forward with using a slider for zoom :D /me noticed cosimoc interested in the patch here https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429490 
<ubot5> Gnome bug 429490 in Views: All "Can we have a zoom slider for all icon/list views?" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<vish> ooh , hadness too now
<vish> DanRabbit: ^^ probably we should co-ordinate , rather than duplicate efforts
<DanRabbit> vish: heh :D
<dieki> Is this the correct place to ask about using AppIndicators in applications? Or is this only for design of such things?
<dieki> If so... is it possible to put a gtk.Entry widget inside an AppIndicator? Like in the MeMenu?
<dieki> I know I can do that for a normal menu.
<dieki> But it doesn't seem to work inside an AppIndicator.
<dieki> Am I doing something wrong, or is that just not possible?
<tedg> dieki, I'm unfortunately on my way out -- but there currently isn't a way -- we want to make it possible for Maverick.
<dieki> Alright.
#ayatana 2010-05-21
<SmSpillaz> I don't know if the unity developers are here - but if so, would they accept a patch wich would make public void show_window_picker () in unity-shell/src/window.vala set an window property on the root window (something like _UNITY_EXPOSE_MODE_ENABLED / _UNITY_EXPOSE_MODE_DISABLED) so that other compositing window managers like compiz and kwin can hook this and show their own expose effect when mutter is not running?
<hyperair> SmSpillaz: judging from commit logs alone, it seems that you'd be looking for didrocks and njpatel, neither of which are here.
<hyperair> SmSpillaz: didrocks is on #ubuntu-{devel,desktop,motu} though, so you could head over there and poke him.
<SmSpillaz> hyperair: thanks
<hyperair> SmSpillaz: anything for the compiz superstar ;-)
<SmSpillaz> :)
<SmSpillaz> I don't know why they are using mutter in unity , but eh
<hyperair> SmSpillaz: i dunno either. i'm no mutter fan.
<hyperair> that thing saps a crapton of memory
<hyperair> and for some very strange reason, i'm constantly running low on memory even with 2G worth of memory
 * SmSpillaz triggered oom killer on his netbook the other day
<nigelb> hyperair: added some to your brain during exam time? ;)
<hyperair> nigelb: it'd have died due to overuse.
 * SmSpillaz doesn't want to be reminded of exams
<nigelb> hyperair: lol
<hyperair> ;-)
<hyperair> and overexposure to Java.
<hyperair> yes, Java is memory's natural enemy.
<SmSpillaz> we have something like that at my uni
<SmSpillaz> "warning this unit involves java"
<hyperair> Java?
<hyperair> oh lol!
<hyperair> that's cool
<SmSpillaz> http://wiki.ucc.asn.au/ObjectOrientedProgrammingCITS2210?highlight=(CategoryUnits)
<SmSpillaz> (!) AFJU (another f.... java unit)
<hyperair> that's so cool.
<SmSpillaz> http://wiki.ucc.asn.au/CategoryUnits
<SmSpillaz> I don't do computer science though (strangely()
<hyperair> what do you do then?
<SmSpillaz> law/arts
<hyperair> ooh UWA. the university with the world's best acronym.
<SmSpillaz> :p
<hyperair> hehehe
<SmSpillaz> it goes by "u dub"
<hyperair> u dub?
<SmSpillaz> yay for having no life and double overloading every semester!
<hyperair> heh. i don't overload every semester, but i have no life anyway. whee.
<SmSpillaz> hyperair: yeah "u doub-" (as in "u double-u") but too lazy to pronounce the A
<hyperair> ah. heheh
<C10uD> hello, any appindicator dev around here?
<C10uD> i have issues with submenu, i wrote a simple test case
<C10uD> i'll open a bug then :)
<C10uD> i guess my problem reflects this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/530138
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 530138 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "Using .append() on a gtkmenu doesn't update the indicator's menu (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Triaged]
<C10uD> with .add() seem working, mhh
<thorwil> vish: are you sure <<Navigation(children,1)>>  is useful on /Ayatana?
<thorwil> i commented it out, as only some of the material is actually in sub pages
<thorwil> so this becomes a seemingly random list, bound to confuse
<vish> thorwil: mostly to keep track of the main page , and not have too many Ayatana/randomidea pages ;)
<jcastro> vish: ping
<vish> jcastro: o/
<jcastro> vish: I found a new guy locally who wants to get involved in ubuntu, I was thinking of throwing him towards 100 papercuts, do you have time to mentor?
<vish> jcastro: sure
<jcastro> <3
<kermiac> hi tedg
<tedg> kermiac, Howdy
<kermiac> i see that you saw the bug report with the apport hook in it :)
<kermiac> do you have any other ideas for what info needs to be collected?
<tedg> kermiac, I think it would be a good first pass.  Let's see what happens when we get that data, and then adjust.
<kermiac> ok, excellent :)
<tedg> kermiac, I don't know how to add an apport hook, etc.  So someone else will have to actually put it in place though.
<tedg> kermiac, BTW, thanks for writing it!
<kermiac> I'm not 100% happy with the wording of the questions the hook is asking, do you thing the wording needs to be changed at all?
<tedg> I have to go now, but you should grab someone to see about getting it in the package.
<kermiac> no probs tedg, glad to help out :)
<tedg> Uhm, I didn't look through the wording :)
<kermiac> ok, I'll ping seb later on today
<tedg> I'll try to next time I sit down at a computer.
<kermiac> ok, thanks tedg :)
#ayatana 2010-05-23
<LucidFox> How do I install the Global Menu? The wiki page says it can be installed from the Unity PPA, but I don't see it there.
#ayatana 2011-05-16
<hiatus> well, I found them entertaining because they were chaotic ^.^
<ali1234> the question is how do you turn a bunch of random rants into something that is useful
<ali1234> it needs to be coherent more than anything
<nhaines> ali1234: since many of the rants are from people who saw a screenshot and haven't actually used Unity.. they're not that useful.  :)
<ali1234> i think they are
<nhaines> Not for fixing Unity, anyway.  Maybe that's useful for marketing Unity.
<nhaines> ali1234: well they're not.
<ali1234> if people don't like the screenshots they'er not going to try it?
<nhaines> If someone doesn't understand how Unity works and refuses to try it, they can't offer feedback on how it works.
<hiatus> I'm not sure what your experience is, but I would take the outlook similar to when I buy something online. If I want to buy an air purifier. I look at the most negative comments and you will find some link in them. like "Its too loud! while a good products negative comments will have no consistent negative
<nhaines> hiatus: I do the same.
<Omega> hiatus: I'm sorry but your friend needs to hear this: he's an ignorant idiot.
<ali1234> that means someone has to read all the rants and figure out what people don't like :)
<Omega> Does he even know what communism is?
<nhaines> ali1234: they don't like that it's different.  :)
<nhaines> Omega: not helpful or constructive.  :(
<ali1234> i don't think that is true
<hiatus> nhaines: Not everyone criticizing unity is gathering their information from screenshots. Thats a pretty protective way of speaking
<ali1234> ok, maybe a lot don't like it because it is different
<ali1234> but there are common threads in the rest that go beyond that
<hiatus> hes actually a socialist
<nhaines> hiatus: I'm only talking about the ones who start out their rants with "I've never used Unity and I never will because..."  I don't think that's protective.
<ali1234> i haven't seen many rants like that
<nhaines> ali1234: those might be the ones I'm not talking about.
<hiatus> well, naturally. My friends crazy rants has used unity though
<Omega> nhaines: I'm hoping that he can be educated.
<nhaines> ali1234: don't read omgubuntu.co.uk, eh?  :)
<ali1234> god no
<ali1234> that whole site is just trolls trolling trolls
<Omega> Communism is a post-statist socialist society.
<nhaines> Omega: there's a code of conduct that governs this official Ubuntu channel.
<nhaines> Don't get me wrong, everyone's entitled to their opinion, no matter what I think about it.
<ali1234> anyway as you said, it's important for marketing
<Omega> nhaines: That is correct, note that I was not attacking hiatus.
<nhaines> Omega: I note that you were attacking his friend.
<nhaines> And there's definitely no requirement to be constructive while venting on the Internet.
<ali1234> just cos you're having a go at someone who isn't here doesn't make it ok... in fact i think that is worse
<hiatus> I didn't think omega was. Omega: I know what communism is, and so does he. He was just ranting
<Omega> nhaines: Except I wasn't the one venting.
<nhaines> Omega: I'm talking about Unity rants.
<ali1234> anyway as i was saying... marketing is important for something like unity
<ali1234> surely the whole point of it is to get new users, not old ones
<hiatus> yeah, marketing means more users, and more users means more drivers
<Omega> nhaines: I don't understand then, I commented on his friend as he is commenting on unity.
<ali1234> so if the new users look at screenshots and don't like it... that's important
<hiatus> well, potentially anyway
<nhaines> The funny thing is, every time I've shown Unity to novice computer users, it's always been met with by excitement.  Which surprised me.
<nhaines> Omega: calling someone an "ignorant idiot" is not constructive.
<hiatus> well nhaines. I will show you otherwise
<Omega> That's why I continued to explain why he is ignorant and to explain what communism is.
<ali1234> ok, but what about windows users?
<nhaines> hiatus: you can't show me otherwise.  You can't show me that every time I've shown Unity to novice users they haven't been excited.
<hiatus> also, did you have to explain how to use unity to those people?
<nhaines> ali1234: they've all been Windows users.  hiatus: The introduction was showing how Unity worked, on a very basic level.
<hiatus> or did those people express interest and excitement all on there own? Because I intend to show people gnome 2 and unity without any prepping and see what people do
<nhaines> Omega: none of that makes the name calling constructive or acceptable.  (Or on-topic)
<nhaines> hiatus: I can't do that during a presentation with an audience.
<hiatus> you cant, I can
<ali1234> an important thing to realise is this
<nhaines> hiatus: you can have a single computer with a projector and just turn it on and see what people do?  They walk out, I imagine.
<ali1234> if you give windows users gnome 2 they will immediately compare it to windows
<hiatus> and you want people to know how to use unity immediately. you do not want people to have to explain it to them before they can use it
<ali1234> they'll think they know how it works and be disappointed when it differs
<hiatus> I intend to do it on a person by person basis
<ali1234> because it looks kind of familiar... but some parts are quite different
<Omega> I'll just stop here and go do something else.
<nhaines> hiatus: that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
<hiatus> you have no idea how boring my job is
<ali1234> when they hit one, (which may be a week down the line) they'll get mad
<ali1234> but with unity, it's immediately different, and it's own thing
<ali1234> this will make novice users more open to accepting change
<nhaines> hiatus: I'll repeat.  When I give a presentation, wrap up, and then pull up the desktop and say "This is Ubuntu", people are impressed.
<hiatus> oh please
<nhaines> And while I was really expecting to have to sell people on the different interface, in my experience it hasn't happened.
<hiatus> have you ever been to a presentation where people are not impressed?
<ali1234> i have lol
<nhaines> hiatus: plenty.
<Omega> I will direct you to the Code of Conduct though, because I did not go against it. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<hiatus> Its a presentation, the whole thing is to impress people. I have seen people impressed at WebOS conferences
<hiatus> and Windows phone 7
<ali1234> windows phone 7 is good
<nhaines> Omega: "Be respectful."
<ali1234> people are right to be impressed by it
<Omega> nhaines: To one another.
<ali1234> it certainly is miles better than WM6
<nhaines> Omega: I assert that name-calling is not respectful.
<hiatus> the thing I hear about windows phone 7 from people is how "fluid" it is. Well, it has a minimal requirement of a 1ghz cpu and has no multiple desktops or widgets, or anything. It better be "fluid"
<Omega> nhaines: I did not call anyone in here any names.
<Omega> And calling an ignorant person ignorant isn't name calling.
<ali1234> hiatus: sounds like those people like it though
<nhaines> Omega: please do not try to excuse unacceptable behavior by trying to paint the target as an acceptable target. I don't care if he's in here ornot.
<hiatus> nhaines: just ignore him
<hiatus> Omega: We are moving on, no one cares
<nhaines> Omega: My personal recomendation is to leave out the name calling and stick with the interesting comments that followed.  And that's all I have to say about that in this channel.
<Omega> Is this acceptable behaviour? ^
<hiatus> ali1234: I think when more development is done on wp7. You will see increasingly more problems. Its not selling well as it is either
<nhaines> Omega: If you don't believe it is, you can bring it up with the Ubuntu IRC Council.
<Omega> nhaines: Not what you said, but what hiatus said.
<ali1234> hiatus: perhaps... i don't think it will be a total flop though (zune)
<nhaines> What astonishes me about Microsoft is their inabilty to follow through with useful ideas.
<ali1234> they are pretty much guaranteed to be the number 3 OS now
<ali1234> nhaines: yes, totally... so much good R&D, none of it ever becomes available
<ali1234> or when it does it's totally watered down and useless
<nhaines> ali1234: or when it does, it's quickly abandoned.
<ali1234> that too
<Omega> Turning a blind eye?
<hiatus> Omega: I am not here to discuss communism, so even if you were to continue the conversation. I would just ignore you anyway. It wasn't even my comment and he is well educated in communism. there is no need to instigate
<hiatus> yeah, but they paid a few billion to nokia to nokia for them to adopt it
<Omega> "no one cares"
<Omega> Is that also part of being respectful?
<ali1234> yeah... i actually think that will work out for them
<hiatus> so, they better hope it sells well enough to recoup their losses
<ali1234> if you compare the symbian SDK(s) and the meego SDK(s) and the maemo SDK(s) and all that vs ... visual studio express
<hiatus> I dont think it will. nokia's market has always been the low end. And the 1 ghz cpu minimal requirement means they are losing a lot of their traditional userbase
<ali1234> well, visual studio wins hands down
<hiatus> ugh, don't get me started on that!
<ali1234> nokia still has S40 for low end
<ali1234> but, even low end is not so low any more these days
<hiatus> Nokia: Develop apps for symbian! us: umm... ok Nokia: No, no, We are moving to gtk! learn how to developer for gtk! us: ugh... i guess... alright" Nokia: Lol, just kidding guys! Its all avbout QT! us: ....... Nokia: WINDOWS PHONE 7!!!! us: shut up nokia
<ali1234> yes, that is really bad
<ali1234> there's no question that that is a huge mess
<ali1234> BUT
<ali1234> it was a huge mess when they switched to Qt
<ali1234> because they still kept around all the legacy stuff
<ali1234> with WP7... it's just .net. nothing else
<ali1234> no hundreds of sdks
<hiatus> I just dont think that people have any confidence in their brand anymore
<ali1234> end users do
<ali1234> and they trust microsoft too
<hiatus> I don't think they do either. Especially with cheaper android phones
<ali1234> they have annoyed a lot of developers no question about that
<ali1234> but developers aren't everything
<hiatus> and android has been gobbling up what were traditionally nokia markets. i.e. india and china
<ali1234> despite what ballmer says
<ali1234> hmm... no
<ali1234> nokia is still massive in india
<hiatus> I think if I was a chinese dude, and I had a choice between a nokia windows phone 7 with a 1ghz cpu and a knock off droid with a 600 mhz cpu. I can probably afford the knock off android phone before I can afford the win7 phone.
<hiatus> I cant see india buying 1 ghz phones in mass quanities. I can see them still selling symbian phones, but who would pick symbian over android?
<hiatus> and nokia's sales even in india have been going down last time I checked
<Omega> hiatus: I am sorry for engaging in namecalling against a friend of yours.
<ali1234> i would pick symbian over android, that's why i have a nokia phone
<ali1234> but it's because i want a reliable phone, not a shiny gadget that i need to upgrade every year
<ali1234> that's the real problem of symbian, no "ecosystem" - all the users just want a phone that works
<ali1234> that and the developer mess
<ali1234> WP7 addresses both issues
<hiatus> it does, but only to markets who can afford them
<ali1234> all the existing nokia customers will happily go on using their current phone for the next 5 years
<ali1234> so nothing lost by not making new symbian phones
<hiatus> ehhh, I don't think so
<hiatus> Android is "cooler" then symbian. and even indians fall for the "cool" effect
<ali1234> yeah but the point is if they didn't buy symbian by now they're not going to
<ali1234> so time to try something different
<ali1234> and unfortunately meego is still probably 12 months from being ready
<hiatus> well, We'll see. it will be interesting
<hiatus> yeah, meego/maemo had so much potential ;.;
<hiatus> I even almost bought an n900
<ali1234> it's pretty amazing how quickly android was developed
<ali1234> i have a n900... symbian is better
<hiatus> yeah, its has an interesting life. I am looking forward to icedtea
<ali1234> it much faster and more reliable
<ali1234> that's purely as a phone though
<ali1234> n900 has some killer features like skype integration
<hiatus> yes... but I could screw around with it and boot up my little terminal apps...
<hiatus> indeed!
<Omega> hiatus: Please don't marginalize groups of people: "even indians",
<hiatus> and ide's and stuff... it was a real computer os on a phone
<ali1234> that has it's downsides though... because "real" computers are buggy and annoying
<ali1234> my symbian phone has never crashed or frozen
<ali1234> i've never even had to reset it
<ali1234> it just works
<hiatus> the more expansive the os, the more potential for bugs basically
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so we cut it right down to the bare essentials
<hiatus> i wanted expansive phone os ;.;
<ali1234> result: you lose some feature... maybe the one you like
<ali1234> but on average it's better for most people
<hiatus> well, I dunno. I think that depends on how development goes
<hiatus> like Blackberry is still a very limited os, but I have seen it produce jvm errors because the code gets ignored
<ali1234> well blackberry is another one that's in trouble... let's face it
<ali1234> but another thing about nokia... even though they target the low end... their build quality is second to none
<hiatus> yeah, I thought they had some potential until they said that QNX on phone's wouldn't come out for yet another year
<ali1234> even their cheap phones have better build quality than some HTC android phone
<hiatus> I still think people in developing countries are vain enough to be like "zomg! Your widgets are sooo kewllll!!!!! I wanna play bejeweled 2!"
<ali1234> it doesn't matter because wp7 will have that
<ali1234> even symbian has that if you really want it
<hiatus> yeah, but wp7 will cost twice as much
<hiatus> seriously, you can do ok on a 600 mhz or 800 mhz phone and the price difference between an 800 mhz processor and a snapdragon is huge
<ali1234> today it's huge
<ali1234> in a year there will only be 1Ghz+ cpus in smartphones
<ali1234> probably dual core too
<ali1234> it's only about 3 years since 200Mhz was considered high end
<ali1234> maybe a bit more
<ali1234> symbian was designed for like 8Mhz phones
<ali1234> i guess that's why it runs so fast on modern hardware
<hiatus> yeah, but when you start moving towards cores rather then clockspeed, that usually slows cpu development and look at how long its taking these dualcores to ship?
<ali1234> they are shipping
<ali1234> i can go buy a tablet with dual core 1Ghz tegra 2 for Â£199
<hiatus> very few. Sony and motorola are still betting on the singlecore chip being a selling point for the next few months. It will be at least an year until they reach a level low enough to appeal to developing economies.
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> it will be at least 6 months before you can buy any wp7-nokia
<hiatus> in the meantime, android has a year to kill nokia
<hiatus> I'm betting they can. That was androids whole purpose anyway. To compete against stuff like brew
<hiatus> well, thanks for tollerating my ramblings
<hiatus> you were all very cool about it ^.^ and I will make some youtube videos of users experiences. It would be good data in general anyway
<ali1234> like i said, i advice trying it for longer
<hiatus> laters
<ali1234> i had to force myself for the first two weeks
<ali1234> cya later
<hiatus> I will continue using it. there are things I do like about unity. I just needed to vent about the things I didnt
<hiatus> and I think having your own desktop manager is important to make ubuntu distinctive from other distro's
<hiatus> but anyhow, laters... again...
<didrocks> good morning
<Andy80> hi all!
<Andy80> nerochiaro: ciao :)
<nerochiaro> Andy80: hey :)
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I'm trying to make qtest-qml work, but it looks like QtCreator/QMLViewer cannot detect it even after I've installed it :\
<nerochiaro> Andy80: how did you install it ? and how are you trying to launch it ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I installed it using these instructions: http://qt.gitorious.net/qt-labs/qtest-qml/blobs/master/README
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I can compile it, I can make install ecc..... when I open the examples from QtCreator I get: module "QtQuickTest" is not installed
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I've also created a PPA with qtest-qml package. I don't know if it works or not since it's my first PPA ever :) by the way, neither the manual way works....
<nerochiaro> Andy80: maybe it gets installed in the wrong place because qmake uses a certain prefix which is different from the default one in ubuntu. can you check where it goes when you run make install ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: or maybe QtCreator uses the qt libs under ~/QtSDK/... instead of the libs available on the system... but I don't know how to change it.
<nerochiaro> Andy80: do you have QT installed in the system (via apt-get) or are you working with a separate download ?
<nerochiaro> or both ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I've both. I was able to compile qtest-qml just using the qmake4 (and the libs of course) installed on my system. I cannot find any other qmlviewer installed in my system, else I would not use QtCreator to do tests....
<Andy80> I've also asked on qt-qml mailing list of Nokia, but I'm still waiting for a reply... or better... the one who replied me didn't read my email at all before replying :) he just told me: he just told me to read the instructions here http://qt.gitorious.net/qt-labs/qtest-qml/blobs/master/README :P
<nerochiaro> Andy80: you need to install the package qt4-qmlviewer if you want to get it from apt
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I try now :)
<nerochiaro> Andy80: also qtdemo is packaged in qt4-demos
<Andy80> nerochiaro: but... I don't need qtdemo I think... anyway, it doesn't work neither with QmlViewer from repository...
<nerochiaro> Andy80: there should be QML demos in there too
<nerochiaro> Andy80: can you remind me what you're trying to do exactly ? i mean, the reason why you need to run the qtdemo-qml stuff
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I don't need qtdem-qml, I need "qtest-qml". I need to learn how to use this unit test framework for QML
<nerochiaro> Andy80: oh sorry, i didn't read correctly in the beginning :(
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I followed the presentation here http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com/blog/artem/test-driving-qml and also watched the video on Vimeo of the presentation... but maybe something is wrong..
<nerochiaro> Andy80: try doing this: remove whatever version of Qt you have installed manually (for example from a downloaded SDK). ensure that you only have in your system the Qt version that is from the ubuntu repositories. then try again running qmake in qtest-qml (in a fresh terminal, just to be safe) and make install
<nerochiaro> by doing this whatever you build with qmake should end up installed in the right place somewhere under /usr
<nerochiaro> or at least that's what i would try first
<nerochiaro> (it will probably be a good sign if when you do the make install it fails because you're not running it with sudo :))
<Andy80> nerochiaro: the Qt path depends on the qmake you use. I used the system one, so the final destination should be the system one. /QtSDK/ is not added to system path, you can only use t from inside QtCreator
<nerochiaro> Andy80: then where does it get installed ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I run make install again and I copy you the result on pastebin, just a moment :)
<nerochiaro> Andy80: good
<Andy80> nerochiaro: here you have http://pastebin.com/7Mf5pFPJ
<nerochiaro> Andy80: looks like it goes where it should go, inside the right directory
<nerochiaro> Andy80: in qtcreator under Tools | Options you have a tab called "Qt4" where you can choose which installation of QT4 you want to use. You may want to make sure that is set to the correct one
<nerochiaro> (and i mean the system one)
<Andy80> nerochiaro: it's not exact that you can choose. You can define the Qt versions there. Anyway I've the system one (auto detected) and other 3: Qt for Fremantle, Qt Desktop and Simulator
<Andy80> nerochiaro: anyway if I use qmlviewer from terminal, it uses the system one and it should detect the qtest-qml installation but it doesn't
<nerochiaro> Andy80: hmm, what happens if you try to run /usr/bin/qmltestrunner ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: here is http://pastebin.com/czu7FqMJ
<nerochiaro> Andy80: here's what I get: http://pastebin.com/2NRZ3kC6
<nerochiaro> Andy80: what does "which qmake" say ?
<Andy80> http://pastebin.com/czu7FqMJ
<Andy80> sorry...
<Andy80> /usr/bin/qmake
<Andy80> nerochiaro: if you want I can try to run qmake, make clean, make, make install again...
<nerochiaro> Andy80: hmmm, i can't think of anything else then. all i can say is that i suspect all these QT versions are messing up with each other. I recall i had issues in the past when i had both my customized Qt build and the one from packages, but it was quite some time ago and i don't recall how did I fix the problems
<nerochiaro> Andy80: try that, perhaps from a new terminal so that you're sure you have clean env variables
<Andy80> nerochiaro: but as I already said, Qt versions included in QtSDK are self contained and not added to the system PATH
<nerochiaro> Andy80: i am not saying that is not true. but clearly they conflict in some way, or you wouldn't have these issues. here with just the ubuntu's QT i git cloned the repo, qmake, make, sudo make install and things seems to work fine
<nerochiaro> Andy80: what about you just try into a VM with only system stuff ? i know it's probably overkill, but it will surely work
<Andy80> nerochiaro: which Ubuntu version are you using? I'm making all these tests on a Natty version, running on VirtualBox
<nerochiaro> natty too
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I can just try to uninstall QtSDK if you want :)
<nerochiaro> Andy80: perhaps the best thing would be to try and uninstall qt in apt and reinstall it
<nerochiaro> Andy80: it may be that you accidentally installed some libraries from the SDK that overwrote the system ones. i don't really know, but it seems to me that your system in that VM is not clean as if you had just installed ubuntu and simply used apt to install qt4
<Andy80> nerochiaro: recompiling and reinstalling qtest-qml didn't work...
<Andy80> nerochiaro: the only mess I could have done is that I packaged qtest-qml on that system.... but nothing else
<nerochiaro> Andy80: then i don't really know, sorry :( what I personally do, if I had your problem, would be to create a new VM with a fresh natty install, then just install in there qt4 from the repos, then try again with that git repo
<nerochiaro> but that's just me
<Andy80> nerochiaro: well... I have another pc with Natty installed, I can try that
<nerochiaro> Andy80: might work
<Andy80> nerochiaro: going to have a quick lunch, I'll be back later
<nerochiaro> Andy80: time for a cup of tea for me. ttyl
<Andy80> nerochiaro: /usr/bin/burp :P now I try on the other pc!
<Andy80> nerochiaro: on the other PC even worse :P Executing /usr/bin/qmltestrunner just keep the disk busy and doesn't show anything on terminal :\ ok it's a netbook, not powerful like a desktop pc, but....
<nerochiaro> Andy80: hmm, not really sure what's going on there. can you run your own tests in that other PC ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I don't have any. If I neither cannot run bundled tests, how can I learn how to use it and write my own :\ ?
<nerochiaro> Andy80: then what were you trying to do before on the other machine ? I told you about qmltestrunner, but I understood that before you were trying to run something else.
<Andy80> nerochiaro: which machine? The pc who is stalling with disk busy or the virtualbox one?
<nerochiaro> the virtualbox
<nerochiaro> Andy80: you were trying to run something there that wasn't qmltestrunner, and it wasn't working. what was it ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: oh it was on the virtualbox one... I try that on the netbook too, wait...
<Andy80> nerochiaro: (come non detto!) the netbook completed the tests and they ran fine just like on your machine
<Andy80> nerochiaro: but... in the netbook I also have QtSDK installed :P
<nerochiaro> Andy80: as you said just having the SDK is not a problem. but it looks like you messed up something on your virtual machine. i don't know what. but since it's a VM it's very easy to just make a new one with a fresh install of natty and work there in a 100% clean environment, no ?
<nerochiaro> Andy80: interesting fact that it took such a long time to finish the tests on the netbook, by the way
<Andy80> nerochiaro: yeah, that's probably what I'll have to do, sigh :(
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I prepared it yesterday from scratch -.-
<nerochiaro> Andy80: perhaps in making a new one from scratch you will figure out what was the mistake with the first one ;) in any case, make a snapshot of the VM when you just finished installing natty. it will save you a lot of time in case you do any mistakes down the road
<Andy80> nerochiaro: f**k the bad written wiki pages!!!
<nerochiaro> Andy80: which ones ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: it was because I modified the .pro file of the project since the packaging guide told me to do that!
<nerochiaro> Andy80: what page told you that ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/QtApplication
<Andy80> nerochiaro: JCastro told us to delete at least 5 wiki pages? well.. this will be the first :P
<Andy80> nerochiaro: now the qmltestrunner works also on my virtualbox installation :P
<nerochiaro> Andy80: excellent :)
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I'll leave the idea of packaging it for the moment... but I want to learn to do it when I've some spare time
<nerochiaro> Andy80: maybe try that magic tool that they presented during uds. i don't recall the name, pkgme or something
<Andy80> nerochiaro: no pls!
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I prefer not packaging that using a tool that does everything for me.
<Andy80> nerochiaro: I want full control of what I'm doing
<nerochiaro> Andy80: makes sense
<nerochiaro> Andy80: there is probably a more up to date packaging guide in the wiki
<Andy80> nerochiaro: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete ?
<Andy80> nerochiaro: by the way... I just checked the package I generated... it only contains doc files and readme O_o no libs or bin at all! :(
<nerochiaro> Andy80: can't help you much with that right now, sorry. Packaging is a pain for me too, if it's any consolation ;)
<Andy80> nerochiaro: don't worry, I hope I'll find someone in the whole community :D let's concentrate on QML stuff for the moment ;)
<nerochiaro> Andy80: good idea :)
<nerochiaro> JohnLea: during one of the unity sessions at UDS there was some discussion about how global menubars are problematic when the user has an high resolution screen. do you know if there's any bug open to track this ?
<agateau_> dbarth_: kaleo: regarding "edge reveal" support in unity-2d (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/760537) do we plan to SRU a fix for it? if no I think it does not make much sense to finish the fix since the current code is going to be rebased on a common unity-launcher libraries, do you agree?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 760537 in unity-2d "[launcher] Does not reveal when hovering over the left edge of the screen" [High,In progress]
<agateau_> *library
<JohnLea> nerochiaro; if it is not a bug already please report it and ping me the bug number.  I haven't reported it because it is a design requirement feeding into re-design work we are going to do bug reporting it as a bug as well will not do any harm.  Allthough there is prob. a bug about this issue already
<kaleo> agateau: how much work is it to finish the fix?
<agateau> kaleo: not much I think
<agateau> kaleo: but it does not make sense to do it if it's not going to be release
<agateau> *released
<hicham> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey hicham
<nerochiaro> JohnLea: I wasn't able to find any bug regarding that global menubar issue. Maybe you can have a look too, just to make sure, before i open one
<hicham> didrocks: I still can't see how to set a unity separate profile
<hicham> didrocks: do you patch compizconfig package ?
<didrocks> hicham: no, I pointed to the compiz package for that
<didrocks> and I pointed you to the needed files as well, what is missing? :/
<hicham> didrocks: compizconfig gconf schemas
<didrocks> this is generated by compiz itself at build time
<kaleo> agateau: well, how sure are you that the edge-reveal behaviour will be 1) in the shared service 2) released in time for Oneiric?
<agateau> kaleo: 1) if we implement what we decided (have a service which receives input events and provide scene description) then I am 100% sure it will be in the shared service 2) not sure at all
<hicham> didrocks: according to your script, you look for /apps/compizconfig-1/current_profile in gconf
<didrocks> hicham: this one has no schema, it's generated by compiz at runtime
<didrocks> hicham: do you still have the logs for last time? I was thinking I was quite extensive on the subject with /etc/compizconfig/ file?
<didrocks> do you install the file in /etc/compizconfig/ with the additional profile?
<hicham> didrocks: yes, I have unity.ini in /etc/compizconfig
<JohnLea> nerochiaro; go ahead and open a bug, thx!
<didrocks> hicham: but did you change /etc/compizconfig/config ?
<kaleo> agateau: 2) and also the various related projects that will use the Natty version make me think that we should do it
<hicham> didrocks: yes, I added [general_unity] section
<hicham> didrocks: backend = gconf
<didrocks> hicham: so you have COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=unity right?
<agateau> kaleo: ok
<didrocks> (as an environment variable)
<hicham> hicham: yes, in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/65compiz_profile-on-session and /usr/bin/unity
<hicham> didrocks: yes, in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/65compiz_profile-on-session and /usr/bin/unity
<didrocks> hicham: don't care about /usr/bin/unity, this wrapper is only for running unity manually
<didrocks> not needed if autostarted
<didrocks> so ok
<didrocks> let's try with the ini backend
<didrocks> hicham: try that in the config file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/608430/
<didrocks> hicham: this should finally use unity.ini, which should start unity
<nerochiaro> JohnLea: Done. Bug 783499
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 783499 in unity-2d "Global menubar is hard to use on large resolution screens" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783499
<hicham> didrocks: no luck, do you want "unity --replace" log ?
<didrocks> hicham: that won't give anything, the unity wrapper doesn't use that as I told you. You should logout/login and paste ~/.xsession-errors
<hicham> didrocks: so what should I use ? "compiz --relace ccp" ?
<didrocks> hicham: You should logout/login and paste ~/.xsession-errors
<didrocks> see ^^
<hicham> didrocks: unity loads fine, if done by hand
<hicham> didrocks: what is the point of logging out /in ?
<didrocks> 16:21:53     hicham | didrocks: unity loads fine, if done by hand
<didrocks> -> right, because you use the unity wrapper
<didrocks> as I told there, it's not used by the compiz profile
<didrocks> so, I want to get the normal loading, hence logout/login
<hicham> didrocks: I don't use the unity wrapper, I am trying to use it
<didrocks> 16:21:53     hicham | didrocks: unity loads fine, if done by hand
<didrocks> -> what do you use?
<hicham> enabling unityshell in the default profile, then "compiz --replace ccp"
<didrocks> and which profile is in use?
<didrocks> it's on the output
<didrocks> when you start compiz
<didrocks> but again, I prefer you to use the profile system and ensuring you are using the right one, as the fact I ask you to logout/login and paste ~/.xsession-errors
<didrocks> hicham: did you try that?
<hicham> didrocks: ok, one sec ( sorry, I was having lunch )
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/3mCc
<didrocks> hicham: Profile     : default
<didrocks> here is the issue
<didrocks> hicham: can you pastebin /etc/compizconfig/config please?
<didrocks> and $ env | grep COMPIZ
<didrocks> of course :)
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/5iN3
<hicham> didrocks: "env | grep COMPIZ" returns nothing
<didrocks> hicham: should give COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=unity
<didrocks> this is your issue then
<didrocks> seem your Xsession.d/ script isn't right
<hicham> didrocks: should I have GDMSESSION in env ?
<didrocks> if you use gdm yes :)
<didrocks> GDMSESSION=gnome for instance
<didrocks> it's the name of the .desktop you choosed in gdm
<ubuntu_user_31> I need help with reseting unity. If you can help plese do.
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/BMOK
<hicham> didrocks: I don't have GDMSESSION set in env
<hicham> didrocks: and I use gdm
<didrocks> hicham: weird, we don't carry a patch for that in ubuntu
<didrocks> hicham: maybe something changed in gdm 3, you should check for that
<apw> can anyone sched any light on the F10 behaviour in unity, specifically i have moved my F10 since login due to a keyboard layout, and the menu is now on both keys dispite only one being F10
<hicham> didrocks: if GDMSESSION isn't exported, is there any other workaround ?
<didrocks> hicham: you need to find something to set COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=unity depending on the .desktop file you choose at gdm login, not sure what gdm upstream did
<hicham> didrocks: so then writing a custom launcher seems to be the solution
<didrocks> hicham: yeah, if fedora doesn't want to keep a session variable as they did before
<hicham> didrocks: ok, now I set COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE manually, then launch "compiz --replace ccp"
<hicham> didrocks: but still, no unity
<didrocks> can you pastebin the output? what's the profile chosen?
<hicham> didrocks: didrocks : ~/.config/compiz-1/compizconfig/unity.ini is empty
<didrocks> and it doesn't take /etc/compizconfig/unity.ini then?
<hicham> didrocks: chosen profile is unity
<didrocks> can you pastebin please?
<hicham> didrocks: no
<hicham> didrocks: pastebin /etc/compizconfig/unity.ini ?
<didrocks> that and the output of your compiz --replace ccp
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/mVBC
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/H59E
<will_> hey guys. does anyone think that the unity launcher/dock disobeys fitt's law? if you put your mouse pointer to the very left of the screen, it will no longer be hovering over any of the buttons
<didrocks> hicham: in ccsm, the "unity" profile have unityshell plugin enabled, isn't it?
<will_> is there a good reason for this or just an oversight?
<didrocks> will_: it does there
<hicham> didrocks: "unity" profile isn't listed in ccsm
<hicham> didrocks: only "Default" profile
<will_> didrocks: it does what? disobey's fitt's law? selects the icon properly (as it should?)?
<didrocks> hicham: hum, there is clearly a compiz detection issue then. you should check on #compiz-dev I would say
<didrocks> will_: it select the launcher icons next to it
<didrocks> hicham: seems you have a compiz profile detection issue, not realy sure why, it works here even if I set the ini backend
<hicham> didrocks: maybe you carry a patch to compizconfig
<didrocks> hicham: no we don't
<will_> didrocks: really? i'm not getting the same behaviour. to clarify when my mouse is over the little white triangles that mean the application is opened - it doesn't select the icon
<didrocks> will_: define "select", you don't have the tooltip appearing, right?
<will_> didrock: that's right, no tooltip. clicking does nothing either
<didrocks> will_: there is a known issue before the first time the launcher is hidden
<will_> (it doesn't launch the application if application is not already launched or show the windows in scale mode if applicable)
<didrocks> will_: so, if you make the launcher disappearing at least once
<didrocks> then let it reapparing
<will_> didrocks: i don't ever hide the launcher, which would probably explain it. :) hopefully that's a bug being worked on then?
<didrocks> will_: right, it's on my list
<didrocks> so yeah, you should be affected by that then :)
<will_> excellent, thanks for the explanation :) i'd much rather it was a bug being worked on than an actual feature oversight
<will_> didrocks: are you a unity developer, then? or you just keep track of bugs being reported/worked on?
<didrocks> will_: yeah, I had no time to debug it yet, it's kind of weird, but definitively reproduceable
<didrocks> will_: I'm integrating unity in ubuntu and part time developping it as well
<will_> didrocks: i'm a programmer and i've wanted to get into developing code for linux. there's some compiz plugins i want to work on but whilst i can find documentation for building compiz, i couldn't find any info on building compiz specifically for ubuntu
<will_> with the unity plugin and so on
<will_> is there any documentation?
<didrocks> will_: sure, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuideFromSource
<didrocks> but for compiz, I would say, start from our package
<didrocks> apt-get source compiz
<didrocks> and then debuild
<will_> didrocks: ah excellent, thanks :)
<didrocks> yw :)
<Boardinary_> are there plans to combine scale and expo?
<hicham> didrocks: ok thanks, I will work on that
<hicham> didrocks: I have another question though :)
<will_> didrocks: just to clarify, i'm wanting to look into modifying scale to better show window title names. when you've got about 5 or 6 firefox windows in scale on text heavy websites, they're hard to tell apart. maybe i'm being over ambitious, but that's my itch that i want to scratch
<didrocks> will_: maybe it's better to see that with compiz upstream on #compiz-dev I would say :)
<will_> didrocks: thanks for the heads up - i'll ask around :)
<hicham> didrocks: since I can't put the menus on the panel, I had to prevent the window title from fading
<hicham> didrocks: so I set "_is_inside = false" in src/PanelMenuView.cpp
<hicham> didrocks: is there any better solution ?
<didrocks> will_: yw :)
<didrocks> hicham: no, I think that's the best you can provide to workaround that, indeed, another solution would be to detect that automatically if an application have a menu exported or not. That better patch can be included upstream I guess
<hicham> didrocks: I think that is all
<hicham> didrocks: btw, the stack works fine with gtk3
<didrocks> hicham: nice to hear! :-)
<hicham> didrocks: oh, and would you accept a patch to add a switch to enable/disable utouch stuff ?
<didrocks> you mean in cmake?
<didrocks> sure, should be on (or autodetected) by default though
<hicham> didrocks: yes, i set it to be on by default
<didrocks> hicham: so sure, propose a branch for it
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/qwgL
<didrocks> hicham: I don't really have the time to test it right now, but looks good. What would be awesome is that you open a bug with it and attach the patch (or even better, propose a branch for merging so that we don't loose it)
<will_> i'm trying to debuild that compiz source i pulled down, but it says it depends on kdebase-workspace-dev
<will_> isn't that a bit odd?
<Milos_SD> Hi
<Milos_SD> Is there a way to add "Alpha Blur" to Unity Launcher?
<Milos_SD> or to increase it's opacity
<Milos_SD> decrease it's transparency*
<tedg> kenvandine, How do you want to package this?  https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-session/classic-session/+merge/60746
<tedg> kenvandine, I was thinking another package like "indicator-session-extra-guests"
<tedg> kenvandine, Really, I'm hoping people will contribute more of them, but I wanted to put together a demo.
<hicham> tedg: any work towards porting unity stack to gtk3 ?
<tedg> hicham, There's been work on bits an pieces, but it's planned.  Do you have something specific you're looking for?
<kenvandine> tedg, humm
<hicham> tedg: just libunity-misc/unity
<hicham> tedg: I tried to build them, but at the end I the notification area is dark
<hicham> tedg: though clickable with popup menus showing
<tedg> hicham, Ah, interesting.
<tedg> hicham, You should ping njpatel when he's here.
<hicham> tedg: thanks
<hicham> I hope the unity team will have some time to look at bugs with patches pending
<tedg> hicham, Sure, it's best to put patches as merge requests though.  They're easier to track that way.
<tedg> hicham, Do you know how to do that?
<hicham> tedg: no, I am "/dev/null" in bzr :(
<tedg> hicham, Basically you need to just "bzr branch lp:unity ; cd unity ; <edit> ; bzr commit ; bzr push lp:~username/unity/mybranch"
<tedg> hicham, Then you can go to that branch's page in LP and propose it for merging.
<hicham> tedg: thanks a lot
<hiatus> is there anyway to add a menu to unity?
<hiatus> fuck it, I'm going back to gnome. I am not search for every application. Do you know how often I use my computer drunk?
<hiatus> you all suck. I'm not looking at walls of apps, I'm not searching. I don't like the menu bar disappearing. I don't like these windows 7 pinned tabs. Ubuntu was about being for human beings and now you have universal search which was thrown out as a bad idea from the 80's
<hiatus> you'll suck
#ayatana 2011-05-17
<nhaines> hiatus: I'm sorry you're frustrated.  I know how annoying it can be to use your computer but not have it respond the way you need it to.
<nhaines> Choosing "Ubuntu Classic" from GDM will reenable the classic GNOME Panel interface on Ubuntu 11.04.  This setting should stay until you change it again.
<Boardinary> lol
<nhaines> hiatus1: I'm sorry you're frustrated.  I know how annoying it can be to use your computer but not have it respond the way you need it to.
<nhaines> Choosing "Ubuntu Classic" from GDM will reenable the classic GNOME Panel interface on Ubuntu 11.04.  This setting should stay until you change it again.
<hiatus1> man, no, I do man. I do
<hiatus1> I freaked out when I checked out gnome 3 and it had all the things I hated about unity in it
<nhaines> And thank you for using Unity and sharing your thoughts on it here with us.
<nhaines> Yes, GNOME Shell has a lot of the same design philosophy.
<hiatus1> see, the thing is. I used to set up gnome to look similarly to unity.  if I could turn the ubuntu icon into a regular main menu. put the file, edit, etc. right after that. And following the file, edit stuff put the windows list. I would be happy.
<hiatus1> or at least have a windows selector in the unity panel and keep all the application menu options in the top taskbar
<hiatus1> happy
<nhaines> There is a global application menu you can add to the GNOME Panels.
<nhaines> That used to be the default but there was a lot of negative feedback that most users wanted "Ubuntu Classic" to emulate Ubuntu 10.10 as closely as possible, so that was reverted.
<Boardinary> The only beef I have with unity is that the workspace switcher should combine expo and scale together.
<hiatus1> I never actually use workplace switcher
<nhaines> Boardinary: It's very useful but it doesn't scale with tons of windows.
<Boardinary> nhaines, I agree, but that is why we have 4 desktops
<nhaines> (That is, it's very useful if you're using a couple windows per app at the most, but perhaps less useful as that increases.)
<Boardinary> I guess, your argument still applies to the current workspace switcher
<nhaines> As I recall, clicking a launcher icon will expose all windows across all desktops.
<hiatus1> i really hate searching for my apps though. it just wastes so much time. I mean, could you imagine how much more ineffectual it would be to type all your apps in on your cellphone? this is a throwback from the 80's that needs to be killed
<hiatus1> I mean, if I'm typing everything in anyway, why not just use the terminal?
<Boardinary> hiatus1, you only need to type the first couple of lettters usually
<nhaines> hiatus1: you just have to type enough to get a unique match.
<nhaines> And sometimes not even that.  I've found (to my surprise) that I can launch things faster than before.
<Boardinary> hiatus1, you can usually do it one handed
<Boardinary> it absolutely is faster if you know what you want.  If you don't know what you want, it is slower - that is an area where unity can improve
<nhaines> Drove me crazy the first three days though.  :)
<hiatus1> no
<hiatus1> no
<hiatus1> no
<hiatus1> no
<nhaines> !enter
<ubot5> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line. Don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<hiatus1> I am not going to type in even the beginning of every application I want. Gnome Do (or was it gnome go) had this same feature, and it was cool for some, but most did not use it
<Boardinary> nhaines, the single application expo does not really encourage the workspace concept as well as the expo + scale
<hiatus1> windows 7, has a way to search for applications, but only by typing in a few keys. No one uses it. Mac osx as well, as a way of searching for applications. No one uses it.
<nhaines> hiatus1: the intended use case in Unity is that you pin your most common apps to the launcher and search for the rest.
<hiatus1> that only works for people who use a few applications. I develop games. Do you realize how much software I use?
<hiatus1> amongst game engines, 3d applications, paint programs, amongst my browsers, media players, and everything else. I would just have a billion pinned applications
<nhaines> So I would recommend a desktop manager/shell that is optimized for that type of workflow.
<hiatus1> and games is a big deal, You realize how many games people play? Your killing my market to want to develop games for ubuntu because people will not have easy access to them
<hiatus1> your shell kills my market
<Boardinary> nhaines, the single application scale* does not really encourage the workspace concept as well as the expo + scale
<nhaines> hiatus1: That's not what the shell is for.
<nhaines> Boardinary: thank you, I read it the first time.
<Boardinary> nhaines, I was just correcting my typo
<nhaines> ah, okay.  I didn't want you to think I was ignoring.  :)
<hiatus1> yeah, I noticed that
<nhaines> hiatus1: so that's okay.  Unity will continue to improve but if it's that big a source of pain, you should use Ubuntu Classic (or another desktop environment) and optimize the settings to what you're doing.
<nhaines> Maybe Unity will work better for your situation in 11.10 or 12.04, or maybe not.  But you obviously shouldn't use something that breaks your workflow.
<hiatus1> yeah, I tried, but I couldn't take it anymore. Unity got way too in the way. Just switching for application to application was a pain in the neck
<Boardinary> hiatus1, do you have a mouse with lots of buttons?  I really recommend it.  You can then assign scale and expo to dedicated mouse buttons.
<hiatus1> eh, I don't like my mouse really. I need to get a new one... sensitivity is great. but I turn my extra buttons off because I keep bumping into them with my thumb
<Boardinary> hiatus1, I have the logitech mx 1100 and I highly recommend it.
<hiatus1> but, thats another issue. Things like the searchbar are going to great a huge amount of problems for third party applications and game developers
<hiatus1> we do not have much of a presence in the unity shell. I develop for mainly cellphones, but I was working on a multi platform game using unreal and blender and I really dont think there will be much presence for installable games in unity
<hiatus1> I mean, the whole workspace is assuming you are only launching a few favorite applications. while most steam users have a multiple of games that they keep installed. Do you expect everyone to pin every game they play?
<Boardinary> hiatus, it takes less time to hit super+ca to get a came like call of duty to show up
<Boardinary> I know with gnome 2, I had to go to applications, wine, programs, game publisher, call of duty
<nhaines> With Unity, it'd be <Super> "C-A-L-L"
<hiatus1> hotkeys are only for neckbeards, surem they are easier. but casual users do not use them
<nhaines> Although I actually just launch Steam and pick the game I want from there, usually.
<Boardinary> not even, might even be ca and it will show up
<nhaines> Boardinary: calculator?  :)
<Boardinary> yeah but you will see call of duty next to it
<hiatus1> i mean, if hotkeys were so simple to use. Everyone would be using emacs
<nhaines> One might also argue that no one could turn on their computer because it requires a dedicated button.
<hiatus1> huh?
<Boardinary> emacs is not simple to use, pressing super plus the first letter of a program is
<hiatus1> I know, I used emacs before. Took me awhile to figure out that Super pressed down, and super pressed up are two different things
<hiatus1> no, this just reminds me of eben moglens speech about how he hated the apple lisa when he reviewed it for ibm. He hated it because it was point and grunt and said that it was a tragedy and the end of language but he also said that that was a losing argument. that people liked the "point and grunt" interface and unity seems a step backwards from that
<hiatus1> well, anyway. if you type in "torrent" you dont get anything in unity. seems like a bug
<Boardinary> yeah, gotta type bit
<nhaines> hiatus1: it probably is.  File a bug against Transmission and perhaps the package description can be updated.
<Boardinary> I also think that there needs to be some kind of indicator manager
<nhaines> Yeah, that's not very well-defined at the moment.
<hiatus1> I will later, I'm working on something at the moment
<Boardinary> the thing I love about the new panel is that the icons don't rearrange at will when changing resolutions
<nhaines> hiatus1: it was not a real-time request.  If you can do so later when you're free it would be a big help.
<nhaines> Boardinary: isn't that great?  :)  It's fixed in GNOME 3.0, too.
<Boardinary> nhaines, i really am shocked and appalled that it took so long to fix that bug.  It was so glaring.
<nhaines> Boardinary: it might've been more complicated under the surface than it appeared.  I know it certainly got better before it was fixed.
<Boardinary> nhaines, it was one of those OCD triggers everytime I would log in :)
<nhaines> haha :)
<hiatus1> yeah, rearranging panel icons was very annoying
<Boardinary> I was reading in /r/linux that mutter may have better performance than compiz.  Is that the case now?  I know it wasn't last cycle.
<hiatus1> lmao, my one musician tried to make normal music. and it ended up sounding like metroid
<nhaines> That I don't know.  I know it certainly wasn't the case last cycle either.
<hiatus1> props to her using lmms though
<Boardinary> There is a lot of unity hate in /r/linux so I don't know how objective it is when it comes to gnome 3 vs unity
<hiatus1> i dunno, I checked out gnome 3
<hiatus1> it had everything I hated about unity. sooo...
<Boardinary> nhaines, do you know anything about Udev-notify and if it will be inplemented into 11.10?
<Omega> hiatus1: When you go on your rants, at least try to be somewhat constructive.
<Omega> And as for your musician friend: #ubuntu-offtopic
<hiatus1> i try, i try. I am not always successful, but I try.
<hiatus1> god forbid my off topic comments get in the way of all this conversation ^.^
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<apw> does anyone know if i can turn off the F10 behaviour in global menus.  seems to have bound itself to both F10 and End after a keyboard reconfigure, and i have no End now
<didrocks> apw: ccsm -> unity plugin -> Key to open the first panel menu
<apw> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<hicham> good morning
<hicham> hi njpatel
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> with appmenu (the globalmenu thingy) gksu appas are not allowed , there is a way to use this menu with gksu apps please?
<zniavre> apps*
<andyrock> hi! :) this my new nickname (Andrea Azzarone)
<hicham> didrocks: no luck on #compiz-dev either
<kenvandine> Cimi, is the theme engine ready to be packaged? i would love to get started on that soon
<Cimi> kenvandine: yes
<kenvandine> woot
<Cimi> kenvandine: though I won't make release and I won't follow branch/reviews thing
<Cimi> neither update readme
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> but it is  a start :)
<kenvandine> just point me at a branch
<Cimi> kenvandine: lp:unico
<kenvandine> thx
<dinth> hi
<dinth> could somebody explain to me, why indicator-application requires appindicator at ./configure stage when compiling ?
<dinth> isnt appindicator same thing ?
<dinth> could somebody tell me if appindicator and indicator-application are same thing or not, please ?
<Cimi> jjardon: could you mark this branch as abandoned? https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/ayatana-scrollbar/fix-72412 to clean up the stuff here :)
<smoser> i'm wondering what package/project i should add as "also affects" for the root issue of bug 784055
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 784055 in System Load Indicator "compiz CPU usage increases 0->4% when running indicator-multiload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784055
<rickspencer3> hey guys, if I wanted to stop Unity from "recording" for a while, could I just set the mru file and the zeitgeist database to readonly or something?
<rickspencer3> I'm picturing an indicator that lets me toggle tracking on and off
<smoser> i'm guessing it should be libindicator or indicator-applet
<jcastro> rickspencer3: this is the best you can do afaict (unfortunately): http://askubuntu.com/questions/21417/temporarily-stopping-zeitgeist/21448#21448
<jcastro> it would be nice to have a desktop-wide "privacy mode" though, like we do for browsers
<rickspencer3> jcastro, I think I could just set the mode of hte file to read only
<rickspencer3> I'll try it after my break
<LLStarks> any good themes i can use on oneiric until murrine or clearlooks is ported to gtk3?
<davidcalle> LLStarks, Adwaita?
<davidcalle> LLStarks, I've just posted this on the Oneiric+1 forum : http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10828712&postcount=15
<LLStarks> davidcalle, no adwaita wm
<LLStarks> but works good enough i guess
<Hooman> Anyone noticed hitting shortcuts that use the windows key too fast loads the launcher?
<Hooman> E.g., I use Windows+Arrow keys to move between desktops and this loads the launcher after let go of the keys
<Hooman> unless I hold them for a few seconds
<vish> maco: it was a MarkDecisionâ¢  ;)
<maco> magnifying glass != generic symbol for application
<maco> i thought it was going to open either compiz ezoom or gnome-mag
<vish> maco: i guess it was one of those "best among the options we had" kinda thing
<jjardon> Cimi: done
<Cimi> jjardon: thx! goodnight
#ayatana 2011-05-18
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<vish> Cimi: hi, could you have a look at : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591258 , patch might need updating for GTK3 and as per mclasen's comment, and tseliot has gotten busy after the initial patch
<ubot5> Gnome bug 591258 in gtk "Easy to accidentally select first option in popup menus" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<Cimi> vish: we have a different behavior in ambiance
<Cimi> vish: we add a padding
<vish> oh!
<vish> Cimi: so, the padding now displaces the menu downwards in ambiance?  (I have a patched gtk so not sure)
<vish> if a right-click doesnt select the first option, then we might be OK there.
<Cimi> vish: exactly
<vish> k.. cool!
<Cimi> vish: no downwards
<Cimi> vish: but the first option has a padding
<vish> hmm, OK.
<andyrock> good afternoon :)
<spikeb> good morning ;)
<davidcalle> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey david!
<davidcalle> didrocks, still no luck on unity-runner in lenses. I confirm it needs to be centralized :)
<didrocks> davidcalle: should be something to discuss with njpatel then
<didrocks> njpatel: you know about the Activatation in the lenses, there is no way to activate an entry with a mimetype/activate action from another lense (like david there from his book lens to a runner:// activation for the application places) as I think the dbus activate signal is only sent to the current lens
<kenvandine> didrocks, njpatel:  that would be generally useful for sure
<njpatel> didrocks, yes, we only check the current lens I think, let me check
<njpatel> davidcalle, kenvandine, didrocks yes, that's how it's implemented at the moment. So you guys want to be able to use other lens' activation hooks?
<didrocks> njpatel: I think that would make sense, isn't it?
<kenvandine> njpatel, yeah, i think that would be pretty useful
<davidcalle> njpatel, yes
<kenvandine> especially the runner:// one :)
<njpatel> It would be confusing if two lens' want to activate the same thing, but we could do some priority checking there I guess
<davidcalle> kenvandine, agreed :)
<njpatel> cool, can someone make a bug and assign it to me :)
<didrocks> davidcalle: it's yours ;)
<davidcalle> njpatel, I'm doing it ;)
<njpatel> :)
<htorque> hello, everyone! i'm trying to build nux on oneiric, hitting this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/609510/ - am i missing something?
<spikeb> i noticed something that impairs the user experience of unity slightly, but i don't know what to file the bug against. its the "restore from minimize" animation - it doesn't flow from the launcher, it merely appears out of nowhere.
<didrocks> htorque: look at my latest oneiric upload :)
<njpatel> spikeb, yeah, that annoys me senseless
<njpatel> DBO, ^
<DBO> annoys me too!
<DBO> not sure why compiz doesn't do it nicely
<spikeb> should I file a bug, and what against?
<DBO> compiz
<DBO> and yes
<spikeb> will do
<spikeb> er, compiz doesn't use lp for bug tracking?
<htorque> didrocks: ah, thanks!
<davidcalle> njpatel, I don't seem to have the rights to assign it directly to someone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/784613
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 784613 in unity "The dbus activate signal is only sent to the current lens" [Undecided,New]
<Xizz> Hi all
<Xizz> Is anyone talking about unity in 11.04 ?
<LLStarks> dear ayatana, thanks for making the management of multiple libreoffice documents impossible. ffs, all i want to do is mass print!
<LLStarks> i need to expo each time i want to switch documents and i can't tell which document is which because the window names aren't shown!
<nhaines> LLStarks: Window menu in LibreOffice?
<LLStarks> no,  the window bar
<LLStarks> there's no way to determine which document is which from an expo
<LLStarks> or tabbing
<LLStarks> it's things like this that make me miss the bottom bar
<LLStarks> there's simply no windowbar for a maximized window in any window-switching method
<jam_> ÐÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ, ÐµÑÑÑ ÑÑÑ ÐºÑÐ¾ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑÑÐ¸Ð¹?
<jam_> Hi, is there anyone?
#ayatana 2011-05-19
<UndiFineD> dispite the bugs, unity seems to be addictive
<Omega> DBO: You got quoted on omgubuntu and they didn't even know it was you :P
<xorpt> Hi there!
<xorpt> I
<xorpt> I'm using Ubuntu 11.04, when I open a modal window the menus from the parent window remain accessible, is this by design?
<Saviq> hi guys, I'm suddenly getting some weird repainiting issues with unity-2d, on both current HEAD and r560, which worked some two days ago
<Saviq> it's like the titlebar / menubar gets repainted but not its background - the labels and buttons get layered on top of each other on every hover
<Saviq> it works fine on the PPA version, but not on those that I've compiled myself... any idea what might going on here?
<Saviq> +be
<Saviq> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/zrzutekranune.png/ here's a screenshot - it's like the panel didn't get any background at all
<Saviq> nothing interesting in the logs, either
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<Saviq> hi guys, have you seen http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/zrzutekranune.png/ before?
<Saviq> that's unity-2d-panel, it's like the panel doesn't get the background for some reason
<Saviq> and it only happens when I build it myself from bzr, it's fine from PPA :/
<hicham> morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey hicham
<hicham> didrocks: I managed to get some changes to unity launcher wrapper script, to add ini backend support
<didrocks> hicham: well, that doesn't fix your autostart issue, isn't it?
<didrocks> hicham: I think we shouldn't use the unity launcher wrapper to launch unity, python is expensive
<hicham> didrocks: it does
<hicham> didrocks: what do you use to launch unity ?
<didrocks> so you are using the unity wrapper to launch unity? :/
<didrocks> hicham: the system I explained the other day?
<didrocks> with the env variable, and starting compiz with that profile
<hicham> didrocks: yes, but how can we make sure that the unity profile is ok ?
<hicham> didrocks: or is that up to the user ?
<didrocks> hicham: we provides defaults, then, if the user want to change them, I don't see why we want to prevent them to do that
<didrocks> we just provides default in a profile
<didrocks> I think I insisted the past couple of week to not use the wrapper to start unity
<didrocks> hicham: for instance, if you use the wrapper, you won't get autorestart for required components
<hicham> didrocks: ok then I think that some patches need to go into compizconfig/ccsm
<hicham> didrocks: ccsm doesn't take into account COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE
<didrocks> hicham: it does
<didrocks> here at least
<didrocks> and we don't carry patches for that
<hicham> didrocks: ccsm ?
<didrocks> hicham: again, yes :)
<hicham> didrocks: :\
<didrocks> hicham: as I suggested a lot of times, you should try ubuntu in a vm to look at what we haveâ¦
<hicham> didrocks: and you see "unity" as the profile in ccsm Preferences ?
<didrocks> 12:13:46   didrocks | hicham: it does
<didrocks> -> so that's a yes, I see and act on unity
<didrocks> really, you should install a vm to test by yourself
<hicham> ok
<didrocks> hicham: maybe it's an issue with the ini backend
<didrocks> I don't see any other explanationâ¦
<toros> hi
<spikeb> hi
<toros> I understand that Unity 2D will switch to compiz. Could someone tell me, when this switch will be made? In Oneiric? Or just later?
<spikeb> should be in time for oneiric
<toros> thank you!
<andyrock> but there will be a 2d compiz?
<spikeb> yes. compiz is gaining a 2d mode.
<toros> just a quick question: If Unity 2D can run on Compiz, then why do we need Unity 3D at all?
<toros> Couldn't we just use the Qt based Unity, and turn on additional effects where available? Like in KWin...
<spikeb> honestly, i have no idea
<andyrock> first of all, qt 4.x have 3d effects?
<andreasn> JohnLea, ping
<JohnLea> andreasn; pong
<andreasn> JohnLea, hey, one of the Thunderbird requirements that came up during the session at UDS was "styling improvements".
<andreasn> JohnLea, I like to figure out what those are together with you
<andreasn> I guess part of it is to make sure Thunderbird picks up as many Ubuntu icon set icons as possible, but it would be good to know where else to improve too
<JohnLea> andreasn; no prob, how about a call at 17:00 BST?  What is the best number to reach you on?
<andreasn> What time zone is BST?
<toros> British Summer Time?
<andreasn> ah, never heard that.
<toros> (UTC+1Ã
<toros> )
<toros> I mean UTC+1 :)
<andreasn> JohnLea, +46703056753
<JohnLea> andreasn; cool, I'll call you at 5
<John__> Hi; My name is John and I am currently researching ways to convert my newly purchased laptop to a OS that is similar to Windows but without all of the headaches associated with it.
<andyrock> good evening!
<andyrock> what about adding the "Keep in Launcher" item to the quiklist of device icon?
<andyrock> *icons
<andyrock> njpatel, ^^^
<nmarques> I have a question, unity-place-applications isnt showing any applications at all, how can I check why this is happening ?
<hicham> nmarques: you didn't use any patch ?
<nmarques> hicham, not really, except I'm running Unity on openSUSE and not on Ubuntu... everything is working besides that
<hicham> nmarques: it worked out of the box on Fedora
<nmarques> unity on fedora ?
<nmarques> hmmz I think I found the error
<hicham> what is it ?
<lamalex> anyone use any adobe air apps? want to confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/769728 for me?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 769728 in unity (Ubuntu) "Can't switch to minimized Adobe AIR applications" [Undecided,New]
<nmarques> hicham, double dash in unity-place-applications.menu
<nmarques> hicham, they are showing now :)
<nmarques> which means, I only have 2 problems left to fix and then I can release Unity for openSUSE :)
<andreasn> JohnLea, andreas@andreasn.se
<hicham> nmarques: what are the problems that you still have ?
<nmarques> hicham, text not showing in the dash icons and it crashes on logout
<nmarques> hicham, all the rest seems to be working fine
<hicham> nmarques: you mean text not showing when the mouse is on one of the dash's icons ?
<nmarques> hicham, those big icons when you open the dash, the ones from gnome preferences (default programs) have no text
<hicham> nmarques: how did you choose to load unity ? using the python wrapper script ?
<nmarques> hicham, normal session stuff through gnome-session --session
<nmarques> hicham, but I'll take a look later on, right now fixing some prototypes on utouch-geis
<hicham> nmarques: you had a crash on libutouch-geis ?
<nmarques> hicham, I think the crash on logout is related to utouch-geis
<hicham> nmarques: I wouldn't advise you to use utouch unless you have xi2.1 support
<hicham> nmarques: I submitted a patch to build without utouch support
<nmarques> lp741404 ?
<hicham> nmarques: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/780028
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 780028 in unity (Ubuntu) "Please allow building without utouch" [Undecided,New]
<nmarques> hicham, you are doing this now instead of Adam ?
<hicham> nmarques: no
<hicham> nmarques: you packaged the indicators ?
<nmarques> hicham, yeah
<nmarques> hicham, that was my first thing
<nmarques> hicham, but like you I'm an outcast :P
<nmarques> hicham, we both have to live from different repo's because I doubt Fedora will accept the GTK patches on their core stuff
<hicham> nmarques: I worked around that, somewhat
<nmarques> hicham, well, for my side I don't really care, once everything is done, I will generate an .iso and distribute it as a spin
<hicham> nmarques: I don't see really any big blockers to get it into fedora
<nmarques> hicham, talk to adam williamson from QA :)
<nmarques> hicham, he will point you a few
<nmarques> hicham, starting with deviations from upstream in core packages like GTK+
<hicham> nmarques: there are only two packages left to go : nux and libunity-misc, before unity
<nmarques> hicham, nux is a pain :)
<hicham> nmarques: why ?
<nmarques> hicham, you will see :)
<nmarques> hicham, https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Aketheriel%3Aayatana
<nmarques> hicham, if that helps, should be easy enough to convert the specs from suse to fedora
<nmarques> hicham, and I've used pkgconfig() calls as much as possible
<hicham> nmarques: I already did some specs, though they are not up-to-date
<hicham> nmarques: in what sense nux is a pain ?
<nmarques> hicham, glew for starters
<hicham> nmarques: we have glew_mx in the repos
<nmarques> prototypes fixed :P
<hicham> you copied the missing ones from XI2.h ?
<rye> is there any way of asking Unity Launcher to tell which application is asking it to display the notification corner thing? http://ubuntuone.com/p/uM3/
<hicham> rye: ~/.xsession-errors
<hicham> rye : you can set the notication area to accept all applets in gsettings
<rye> hicham, am I searching for something specific?
<rye> hicham, i don't think i follow
<hicham> rye : TrayRejected and TrayAccepted
<rye> hicham, are you talking about the indicator applet area or the launcher/panel notification corner thing pictured at http://ubuntuone.com/p/uM3/ ?
<hicham> rye: no
<vanbcguy> Hi all, I have a USB audio device which is working fine, however it seems the volume controls are not really aligned with the hardware.  Turning it down to about 40% completely turns sound off.
<vanbcguy> Can this be changed?
<hicham> nmarques: you fixed the crash on logout ?
<nmarques> hicham, not yet
<hicham> nmarques: did you try a build without utouch ?
<nmarques> hicham, nope... I'll look into it later, there's a few things I need to do before
<hicham> nmarques: do you have xi2.1 patches in suse ?
<wankdanker> Hi all! I have a dual-monitor set up and am wondering if it is possible to remove the title bar (or whatever it is called) from the monitor on the right? (natty)
<nmarques> hicham, nope
<nmarques> hicham, there's a new release today
<nmarques> hicham, it does build without them
<hicham> nmarques: a new release of what ?
<nmarques> hicham, utouch-geis
<nmarques> hicham, I don't really care for multitouch support :)
<hicham> nmarques: I don't either, that is what I disabled it
#ayatana 2011-05-20
<doctormo> This might be off topic a bit, but I'm after soemone who knows about gobject introspection.
<doctormo> I've created a Gtk.Window(), but it doesn't work.
<doctormo> with the new gir1.2
<doctormo> I get Must be Gtk.Window, not Window
<RAOF> DBO: Here?
<oSoMoN> good morning
<ariadacapo> Hello, I would like to propose a bug (#395836) for inclusion in the 100 papercuts, but I cannot find how to do it...
<ariadacapo> Launchpad does not accept "hundredpapercuts" as an affected package,
<ariadacapo> And does not want to include https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts as an affected external project...
<ariadacapo> I looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCut but could not find an answer.
<ariadacapo> Am I missing something?
<nmarques> guys I'm having a tiny problem with unity... all I get is a blank screen with the wallpaper and a cursor (compiz isn't crashing) and from the .xsession-errors all I get is: unity-panel-service: no process found
<nmarques> anyone has some clue how to debug this ?
<crazedpsyc> Hi guys! I love the latest overlay scrollbars update! :)
<Andy80> hi all :)
<Andy80> nerochiaro: hey! as you already told me, could you please assign me a couple of simple unity-2d bugs? I'll have a lot of spare hours tomorrow, I'll try to fix them.
<nerochiaro> Andy80: yeah, let me have a look. oSoMoN: any ideas ?
<nmarques> any of you guys could help me troubleshoot a few bugs I have with Unity-2D ? :)
<nerochiaro> nmarques: try asking, maybe someone can ask
<nerochiaro> er, can help
<nmarques> I can take screenshots :)
<nmarques> the dash entries don't show any text
<nerochiaro> Andy80: i thought there were more "easy" ones ;) but you can for example try this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/715611
<nmarques> and the appmenu stack isn't working
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 715611 in unity-2d "[launcher] Trash icon should indicate when it has deleted elements" [Medium,Confirmed]
<nerochiaro> nmarques: do they show icons ?
<nmarques> yeap
<nmarques> and the icons work
<nmarques> only the text which should be underneath doesn't show
<oSoMoN> nerochiaro, Andy80: IÂ concur, this one should be relatively easy and fun to get started with
<nerochiaro> let me see if i can find more
<nmarques> but unity-place-* has not problems, it's only the main dash screen which doesn't show text
<nerochiaro> nmarques: the one with the shortcuts
<nmarques> yeap
<Andy80> nerochiaro: ok, I've subscribed to it :)
<nmarques> nerochiaro, http://lizards.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Screenshot1.png
<nmarques> Andy80, may  I suggest one ? :)
<nmarques> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/750303
<Andy80> nmarques: sure :)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 750303 in unity-2d "[packaging] Missing a GConf schema file for the /desktop/unity-2d/â¦ keys " [Medium,Confirmed]
<Andy80> thanks! subscribed to that too
<oSoMoN> Andy80: you can also have a look at bug #709930, bug #706481, bug #688830
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 709930 in unity-2d "[launcher,panel,dash,spread] GTK cursor theme not applied" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709930
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 706481 in unity-2d "[spread] window not focused on mouse hover" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/706481
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 688830 in unity (Ubuntu) "Select quicklist items with just one right click" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688830
<Pretto> hey, is there any log fiile for unity?
<Pretto> file*
<nmarques> Pretto, as far as I am aware, usually, no.. but you have ~/.xsession-errors which will be helpful some times :)
<nmarques> Pretto, if you need the stack you can always attach sdb to it
<crazedpsyc> doesn't ubuntu-bug watch for unity errors too?
<Pretto> nmarques: I just need to see why some quicklists are not loading
<andyrock> hi all :)
<andyrock> just a question: what is the task of clamp macro in unity code?
<nmarques> Pretto, it's better someone with more expertise help you out :)
<nmarques> Pretto, but from the few things I know from Unity, there's a python wrapper which has a --log option
<Pretto> nmarques: thank you for your help anyway :)
<nhaines> sladen: Hmm, I'm eager to know if there's a projected window for open (or wider) beta of the Ubuntu Mono font.  :)
#ayatana 2011-05-21
<BigWhale> Greetings
<BigWhale> anyone here that knows something about libdee and pythong bindings for that?
<hiatus> well, I kept using unity as suggested, I got used to a bit of it. There was a lot to relearn. One thing that continued to bother me though was that I didn't have separate tabs for running applications. It continually made switching from application to application a hassle
<hiatus> there are a lot of pretty ways to switch applications but when I'm doing projects that require more then one applications (such as digital painting and 3d stuff) the animations got more in the way then anything
<hiatus> any suggestions or is there intentions of perhaps adds some sort of customization where I could have applications launch in separate labeled tabs
<hiatus> and jumping from unity to nautilus looks annoyingly inconsistent but meh
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> Is the function 'app_indicator_new' supposed to work with absolute paths to an icon name or just with stock GTK icons?
<evaluate> If I'm calling it with an absolute path, it displays an 'unknown' icon...
<evaluate> ok, I found 'app_indicator_new_with_path', but it doesn't seem to work for me. I have copied an icon from /usr/share/pixmaps/, named 'apple-red.png' to /usr/local/share/pixmaps/clipit/apple-redd.png' and I'm calling this in my program: app_indicator_new_with_path("clipit", "apple-redd", APP_INDICATOR_CATEGORY_APPLICATION_STATUS, "/usr/local/share/pixmaps/clipit/");
<evaluate> I still get the 'unknown' icon though...
<andyrock> if there is a bitesize bug but it is triaged, what i have to do?
<heiitx> hi, when click the icon in the unity sidebar, the opening windows of the program will show, but when click the window why it doesn't jump to the workspace the window is in? How can i do some settings against this?
#ayatana 2011-05-22
<kisil> Hey, I'm not sure if I'm asking in the right place, but I'm looking for some information about how sound configuration has changed in ubuntu 11.04
<kisil> I have a kind of obscure USB sound card, which I was configuring with a udev rule. That seems not to be working any more, because sometimes the card isn't configured when I log on. (Sometimes it is; I'm not sure why yet.)
<kisil> I can manually run the script, and the card becomes active, but it doesn't appear in the list under Sound Preferences unless I log off and log back on
<kisil> I was hoping to find out how to manually refresh/rebuild that list, but that's as far as I've gotten - I don't even know what program controls "Sound Preferences"
<kisil> Does anyone have any advice on how to start attacking this, or where to find docs on the sound architecture? I'd love to dig a little deeper and figure out whether I've misconfigured something or found a bug.
<nit-wit>  you have to be a little brave and have another launcher like docky or synapde/gnome-do as a back up to mess around.
<nit-wit> oops wrong channel
<Nafai> Do you have to do anything special to tell a quicklist to redraw?  I've got some code that dynamically adds and remove entries but the quicklist itself isn't updating
<Nafai> https://github.com/Nafai77/Emacs-Unity/blob/master/src/EmacsUnity.vala
