#ubuntu-meeting 2005-06-27
<Alessio> ?
<squinn> Alessio, #ubunto-it
<squinn> i think that's what you're looking for
<squinn> #ubuntu-it rather
<squinn> thats where meeting it
<squinn> is
<Alessio> yes ;D
<Alessio> thanks
<squinn> no problem
<solar> Is there a Martin Pitt in here by chance?
<solar> guess not I'll mail him. thanks.
<dholbach> hi
<Nafallo> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hi Nafallo :)
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> ajmitch: andrew! long time no see! :)
<ajmitch> sorry, it's been awhile :)
<ivoks> hi all
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> huhu *
<dholbach> ajmitch: don't worry, same for me
<ivoks> long time no see :)
<ivoks> doh... dholbach said that allready :)
<dholbach> siretart: excellent work on the review thingie
<ajmitch> dholbach: well, I just finished at university yesterday
<dholbach> WOW!
<dholbach> how do you feel today?
<siretart> dholbach: thank you, but it's just a very rough sketch. do you happen to have a name for it?
<ajmitch> same as last week
<ajmitch> I'm back at work at the moment
<dholbach> siretart: i'll think about it
<ajmitch> siretart: yeah, it looks great :)
<ajmitch> plans for autobuilder & all
<ajmitch> we should probably wait the remaining 15min for everyone to turn up
<dholbach> siretart: is it on the agenda?
<siretart> dholbach: well, no. Stefan and I started it today afternoon ;)
<squinn> Oh. MOTU meeting, right?
<dholbach> squinn: yeah
<dholbach> in 10 minutes
<dholbach> siretart, \sh: you rock!
<\sh> I don't think he means /me 
<\sh> this afternoon I was playing with nagra and not with ubuntu ;)
<dholbach> siretart: which stefan?
<siretart> sorry, I will need \sh with the autobuilding feature, but with stefan I mean stefan potyra, a friend from university
<dholbach> ah cool
<\sh> but I'm on for those adventures :)
<dholbach> well, we have 8 minutes for everybody to add something to MOTUMeeting
<ivoks> heh
<ajmitch> siretart: I think that the autobuilding should be 'easy enough' :) 
<siretart> \sh: I'd suggest that I'll try to get something workable done on my vserver (tauware.de), and then we could work together on the next version with autobulding support. what do you think?
<\sh> ajmitch, the easiest way is pbuilder
* ajmitch looks at the agenda
<Nafallo> haha. this meeting seems to be \sh :-)
<\sh> everything is blinking red here
<siretart> ajmitch: yes, but I cannot on my vserver, because I cannot mount anything, no real chroot, no bindmount of /proc, no autobuilding
<siretart> its a linux vserver project, if you are familar with that
<\sh> siretart, this is possible on my server...
<siretart> \sh: great! :)
<\sh> siretart, we can do this like mithradie and maswan on ravel
<siretart> err, mithradie? maswan? ravel?
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> mithrandir
<ivoks> ravel is amd64 machine
<ivoks> with lots of chroots
<Nafallo> in Ume, Sweden :-)
<siretart> aaah!
<siretart> that'll be great!
<ajmitch> \sh: I would offer as well, but my bandwidth is a little less ;)
<ivoks> great place to test building of packages
<ivoks> Mithrandir: god bless you :)
<\sh> ajmitch, when this project will rock, we need some hardware sponsorship (harddrive space, ram etc.)
<ajmitch> \sh: perhaps from canonical
<dholbach> LeslieViljoen in here?
<Nafallo> Day changed to 21 Jun 2005
<ivoks> not yet :)
<\sh> ajmitch, well, not actually...we should make it community thingie
<Nafallo> aha, the damn clock is off on this server again :-P
<\sh> but if ubuntu core sees a good thing to help motu, i don't mind ;)
<ivoks> ok 00:00
<ogra> \sh, ajmitch there are vserver possibilitys... i think we can get something...
<ajmitch> ogra: great
<\sh> ogra, vservers for chroots?
<siretart> why not?
<ogra> \sh, no, but for such tools...
<\sh> hmm.pbuilder doesn't need something like a chroot ;)
* dholbach strokes his pbuilder
<ogra> \sh, i'm not sure how much or if anything is free currently, but i know the doc team gets something like a vserver
<dholbach> tritium: hey michael
<tritium> hey Daniel :)
* Nafallo hugs his three base.tgzs :-)
<dholbach> tritium: how are you?
<ogra> so it should be possible for us too
<\sh> ogra, right now, we're fine...
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-06-28
<\sh> ogra, but 1GB is not enough ;)
<tritium> dholbach, oh, you know how it is...
<tritium> dholbach, how are you?
<dholbach> tritium: how is life?
<ogra> \sh, disk or ram ?
* tritium has no life until July 22
<\sh> ogra, ram ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: sadly true
<\sh> ogra, diskspace is 80gb should help for a while
<\sh> plus a HD for OS and webspace == 40GB makes 120GB
<ogra> so do we start the meeting ?
<\sh> ok..meeting..
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> fire away
<ogra> oh, its grown
<ajmitch> ogra: please
<ajmitch> hi dilinger 
<ogra> StephanHermann: My idead ?
<ogra> getting blind ?
<dilinger> ajmitch: hiya
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> I'm old and blind
<ogra> \sh, or is this a new apple service ?
<dholbach> haha :)
<\sh> ipet?
<ogra> get your idead today 
<\sh> iDead?
<dholbach> 1) on the agenda is: MOTUNewPackages process - ITP handling in Debian.
<siretart> hi wasabi_ 
<ogra> Fill in ITP (when there is no one already), go through MOTU Review and then let it be a sponsored upload from one of our DDs @ubuntu If there is already an ITP, get in contact with the maintainer, and ask him/her to help him, at least he could become a MOTU ;)
<wasabi_> We should have Ubuntu MOTU capes made by CafePress.
<ogra> thats the current proposal
<dholbach> i want to add something i recently learned about ITPs:
<\sh> Ok, we had this discussion quite a while now
<ajmitch> how many DDs are available for that, since it will take some reviewing time as well?
<dholbach> if you file an itp in debian: it means: "i own the packaging attempt, and i will take care of it in debian"
<dholbach> maybe not in those words, but closely
<ogra> yeps
<dilinger> ogra: if there is already an ITP, mail the BTS w/ a patch if ubuntu already has packages prepared.  there are a *lot* of ITPs where there is no activity.. at least w/ a patch in the BTS, another DD can decide to package it based on the patch
<ivoks> so, that's a must have
<dholbach> my personal point of view is: it's an administrative device in debian
<ivoks> otherwise we will have conflicts
<ogra> dilinger, is dholbach's assumption true ?
<siretart> well, who is responsible for the package, then?
<\sh> and this is one thing, we should handle...the sponsor DD will get the help from motu for this package, because the package is put into a team
<dholbach> we maybe should better announce our new packages on a debian-list - maybe once a month to let them know, who they can contact to work more closely together
<dilinger> ogra: that is correct.  you end up w/ contention situations, however; someone holds an ITP and disappears or doesn't have time to work on the package
<ajmitch> if you don't want to file an ITP & own that package, then an RFP with a link to the ubuntu package may be more appropriate
<dilinger> so other people end up not packaging it either, because someone else owns it
<ogra> ajmitch, that sounds good
<siretart> I mean, whose name will be in the maintainer field? what happens, if someone get an upload sponsored to ubuntu, but looses interest in the package or doesn't have enough time for it?
<ajmitch> ITP=intent to package, RFP= request for package
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> and the diff is?
* tseng enters
<ajmitch> siretart: probably something like Ubuntu MOTU team for ubuntu uploads
<\sh> one question to the DDs hidden in the ubuntu universe ;)
<dilinger> (RFP w/ a patch is even better)
<ajmitch> ivoks: RFP is asking someone else to do the work ;)
<ivoks> ah :)
<ajmitch> dilinger: yes, but not if it's a 10MB package, I think
<Nafallo> dilinger++
<siretart> ajmitch: do you think the MOTU Team would be an accaptable maintainer for debian?
<tseng> i have mailed ITP owners directly
<\sh> ajmitch, dilinger: how long does it take normally to get a package into debian, even for ITP or RFP
<tseng> and offered a link to my source package
<ivoks> maybe we could have our DD fill all ITFs
<ivoks> and leave packaging to MOTU
<siretart> \sh: this really depends on how quick you get a sponsor, and how quick the package is passing NEW
<ajmitch> ivoks: then that DD is reponsible for it all, including the debian bugs
<dholbach> the problem is: you need somebody responsible for a) bugreports, b) uploads in debian
<dholbach> and those are problems, not just "problems" :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: true... well... thinking at loud...
<ajmitch> siretart: team maintenance is good, they might accept that :)
<dilinger> \sh: it depends on how busy the ftp masters are.  i've had packages go in in under 24 hours; i've also waited months for packages, during time when NEW wasn't being processed.  currently, it doesn't take long; people are processing packages quickly
<ogra> dholbach, but we cant do more then offering
<dholbach> ogra: absolutely not
<dilinger> \sh: it is a manual process, though, so it's very dependent upon available manpower
<\sh> and a group of people with one centralized spokesman being a maintainer?
<ogra> dholbach, the rest is up to debian
<dholbach> ogra: but the question is, how much commitment we make
<ogra> none
<dholbach> ogra: if we're going to define a process
<dholbach> this should be clarified
<ogra> we just offer our work
<dholbach> yeah: how about a monthly mail announcing all the new source packages and our maintainers?
<ogra> it think if we just offer it in an RFP we are fine...
<\sh> I mean, what's the difference between Maintainer: Stephan Hermann <sh@sourcecode.de> or Maintainer: Ubuntu-Motu-KDE-Team <ubu-motu-kde@ubuntu.com> ?
<tseng> can we script finding rfps that match a package in ubuntu?
<ogra> dholbach, a newsletter to debiian-devel ?
<ivoks> hm... what's wrong will just filling ITFs, supplying patch and bringing package into ubuntu
<siretart> dholbach: this implies that some DD gets interest in adopting the package. right?
<tseng> or open itp's also
<dholbach> siretart: that would be a nice side-effect yes, our intention :)
<ogra> \sh, it doesnt matter.... it changes if your package enters debian
<dholbach> ogra: i'm not talking about an automatic newsletter :)
<ajmitch> tseng: easily
<tseng> ajmitch: yes
<siretart> \sh: responsibilty: in the first case, YOU are responsible, and in the latter, the responsibility is shared
<tseng> do we have a volunteer to write a script that compares packages in ubuntu to open rfp and itp?
<ogra> dholbach, why not ?
<tseng> thats a start.
<ajmitch> tseng: ok, I can do that
<tseng> ajmitch++
<ivoks> siretart: IMHO, second case is better
<ogra> dholbach, as automated as your apt-get.org script was
<ajmitch> I've already got part of that done
<dholbach> do we want to have to track debian bugs for our new packages? :)
<siretart> ivoks: for us. but I'm not sure how debian thinks about that
<ajmitch> dholbach: if we maintain them, we have to
<ogra> dholbach, sure, but thats what we have malone for.... 
<tseng> dholbach: malone will be syncing them anyway
<ivoks> siretart: for them too, they could allways get contact from team
<ajmitch> once malone is there :)
<ivoks> siretart: they would be foolish to demand single person
<ivoks> siretart: but, we must insure quality
<dilinger> ivoks: debian doesn't have problems w/ teams maintaining packages.  it's the case for plenty of packages (kernel team, for example)
<ajmitch> and zope/plone
<siretart> ivoks: hm. yeah, I agree, but I also heared the argument, that if a big team is responsible for many things, in effect nothing gets done
<ivoks> dilinger: as i said, otherwise would be foolish
<ajmitch> fyi the motu zope team got invited to join the debian team
<ivoks> siretart: MOTU is team that does the job ;)
<siretart> dilinger: the difference is, that the teams inside debian are staffed with DD's
* tseng joined the debian mono team
<ajmitch> all 2 of us, that is :)
<tseng> thats the ideal situation, really
<dilinger> siretart: not necessarily.  only about half the kernel team are DDs
<dilinger> the rest are NMs, or about to enter NM
<tseng> the more work you do in debian, the less we track as a chanset
<siretart> dilinger: interesting. perhaps I'm too pessimistic
<\sh> I mean, when MOTU as team is standing behind the packages, what is the problem? internally the packages are sorted out into motu teams
<Unfrgiven> hi all. sorry im late. damn traffic!
<ivoks> i support \sh
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> and when the QA process of motu is good enough to get a package into universe, it should be good for debian as well
<tseng> i dont support \sh :)
<siretart> in effect: Do we have DD's agreeing to sponsor MOTU Team uploads?
<\sh> stop mentioning my nick it blinks here ;)
<dholbach> siretart: it'll be hard work for them
<ogra> \sh, ?
<ivoks> ok \sh 
<ajmitch> it doesn't matter, as long as there's someone to step up & do the debian work
<ivoks> sorry \sh 
<\sh> argl
<dholbach> siretart: nobody should underestimate that now
<ivoks> :)
<siretart> dholbach: yes, I'm aware of that
<\sh> ajmitch, so u have to be a DD to do the upload right?
<dholbach> it'd be better to have dedicated DDs working with us on specific packages
<dholbach> (if they're interested)
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, just as you have to be a MOTU to upload to universe
<ajmitch> \sh: same keyring process :)
<\sh> ajmitch, and to become a DD is a long way.
<ogra> dholbach, i dont think that works well
<ajmitch> \sh: reasonably long
<\sh> so we need already be DDs to help the teams inside motu
<dholbach> ogra: what exactly?
<ajmitch> I am available to help with uploads & reviewing for debian, time permitting
<ivoks> doh..
<ivoks> there is only few of us
<\sh> ajmitch, but when u look onto the newpackages list, it's a hell of a lot
<ogra> dholbach, if you have a package that belongs into a certain interest of a DD he wont be happy to suddenly have a DD-MOTU team caring for it
<dholbach> that's not what i meant
<ivoks> i say, fill ITP (puting a veto on package) and upload it to ubuntu
<ogra> dholbach, just because he wassnt fast enough to package
<dholbach> 1) we announce cool packages, 2) DD xy says i want to take care of abc in debian, 3) ...
<ajmitch> ogra: but this is just new packages
<\sh> ivoks, RFP
<ivoks> debian can, but doesn't have to, upload it to debian
<ogra> i say fill RFPs
<ogra> and let debian care themselves for it
<ivoks> RFP? but then we will have to wait for someone else to package it
<\sh> ivoks, the problem for MOTU right now is, 20 people against 15000 and more packages
<ivoks> ogra: that would produce conflict
<ivoks> if we fill RFP and bring package to ubuntu
<ivoks> someone else will bring it to debian
<ivoks> and on merging we have problems
<\sh> ivoks, so we will sync it back to ubuntu
<ogra> ivoks, why ? we link the source package in the RFP
<tseng> ivoks: thats the problem right now
<tseng> ivoks: that we want to fix :)
<tseng> or improve.
<ajmitch> it's when they don't use the ubuntu packaging that we'd have the issues
<ivoks> tseng: right, so filling RFP will not do the trick
<ivoks> but, if we fill ITP
<tseng> we will watch both, and get in touch with DDs who show interest in the package
<\sh> i see it will be easy for us: malone -> file a new package bug -> malone will file RFP or ITP or UDP or TCP to b.d.o/wnpp and we have it
<tseng> offer them our sources
* siretart agrees to ogra: just file RFP's with pointer to the ubuntu source package, and hope someone is willing to maintain it. this could be a DD or a non DD, in which case he would have to find a DD to get the upload sponsored to debian
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> ok...
<dholbach> who cannot agree with ogra's suggestion?
<tseng> thats close enough for me
<ogra> and if dholbach is after it, even a handwritten monthly newsletter 
<\sh> i think it's the best we have right now
<dholbach> ogra: haha.. yeah - absolutely :)
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> but
<Unfrgiven> is there any possibility of getting a team of dd's who will do sponsored uploads for MOTU members?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: it's hard
<tseng> Unfrgiven: that doesnt make as much sense as sponsoring a specific package
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: sponsoring always means reviewing as well
<dilinger> Unfrgiven: i'd like to see a team of DDs who go through and integrate changes from derived distributions
<Unfrgiven> dilinger: thats a good idea.
<dilinger> Unfrgiven: not just sponsoring uploads..
<ajmitch> that leads to the other main problem we have with debian - pushing our changes back 
<ogra> dilinger, so would you be ok with RFPs if you were in such a team ? or would you expect more ?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: agreed.
<ivoks> RFP with source/patch
<dilinger> ogra: RFPs would be fine.  speaking for myself, i would prefer to sponsor uploads w/ MOTU maintaining, versus taking the packages and maintaining them myself.. as long as the MOTU team was responsive to bug reports
<dilinger> but it would have to be a team doing the sponsoring, so RFPs are a good way to start
<dholbach> *nod*
<ogra> dilinger, sounds good
<Unfrgiven> dilinger: whilst that sounds good, it wouldn't be practical for most of the packages. DDs arent likely to relinquish maintainence duties easily
<ivoks> ok, everyone agrees with RFP
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: but we're talking about packages not in debian, so there's no DD maintaining them yet
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ah ok fair enough then.
<ogra> Unfrgiven, lets test it.... its not written in stone yet
<dilinger> Unfrgiven: that's *very* dependent on the DD.  you're welcome to any of my packages, i have too many :p
<Unfrgiven> ogra: yep, you have my vote
<Unfrgiven> btw RFP = ?
<ajmitch> I'll write up a quick script to get the list of RFPs & ITPs & packages not yet in debian
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: request for package
<ivoks> request for package
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ivoks: thanks.
<Unfrgiven> ITP? :)
<ajmitch> I've got the packages not yet in debian part done :)
<ajmitch> intent to package
<\sh> Intent To Package
<Unfrgiven> cool.
<ivoks> packages not yet in debian = ?
<\sh> PNYID
<ivoks> does that exzist? :))
<ogra>  pnyid ?
<ivoks> egxist
<\sh> <ivoks> packages not yet in debian
<ivoks> ah... english :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: no, but I can get a list to you in a few minutes
<ajmitch> once I update the sources list
<ajmitch> hey schweeb 
<schweeb> hello
<Unfrgiven> just another thought (sorry if this has been covered already). since we already have a few DDs in Ubuntu (e.g. ajmitch, dholbach) cant they sponsor motu uploads for pnyid?
<ivoks> ok... packages we change, we send patch do DD?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i'm no dd, sorry, not yet :)
<schweeb> I'll just lurk for a few, gotta do a severity 2 restore right now :-/
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: doh. well i guess ajmitch can take on the burden? :P
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: it's tough
<\sh> Unfrgiven, sponsoring means reviewing
<ogra> ivoks, thats another story
<siretart> dilinger: and all your package seem quite demanding to me ;)
<\sh> and reviewing is hard work
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: depends on how much you pay me ;)
<ivoks> ogra: i know
<ogra> ivoks, and not on the agenda :)
<ivoks> ogra: i tought we agreed on RFP
<schweeb> which meeting is this? motu or TB ?
<dholbach> schweeb: motu
<ivoks> motu
<ogra> ivoks, for NEW packages
<Unfrgiven> ogra: but if the package passes a motu review and is being uploaded into universe surely its good enough for debian?
<schweeb> k
<\sh> ok, we're ok with ogras iDea: filing RFP for new packages
<ogra> Unfrgiven, i guess so... but i'm not debian :)
<siretart> Unfrgiven: we cannot decide this, because we are ubuntu's, not DD's
<ajmitch> ITP if the MOTU really wants to take it on in debian themselves
<dilinger> siretart: yea.  timesuck :(
* dilinger needs to head home.  later all
<Unfrgiven> siretart: hence my suggestion to rely on ubuntu devs that are dds
<ivoks> ogra: i tought we agreed on RFP for new packages, and just asked this totally unrelated question, so i would know for repackaging
<ogra> ciao dilinger 
<tseng> bye dilinger 
<ivoks> ogra: ah, forget it :)
<\sh> cu dilinger 
<ivoks> dilinger: bye
<siretart> bye dilinger 
<Unfrgiven> dilinger: cya dude
<dholbach> bye dilinger 
<Nafallo> dilinger: bye
<siretart> Unfrgiven: well, thats also possible with the current suggestion: RFP's
<\sh> guys, please think about this: some of the structure is different in debian then in ubuntu...and to test the packages against debian we need a etch pbuilder
<dholbach> dilinger: you seem to have quite a fan club in here :)
<ajmitch> \sh: or a debian box
<siretart> \sh: rather an sid pbuilder
<ivoks> next time....
<ogra> \sh, why ? 
<ivoks> "dilinger: Hi, i'm dilinger, and I have a problem"
<ajmitch> I've got a number of systems here, and use a sid chroot regularly
<ivoks> and everybody else "hi, diliger"
<ogra> \sh, i mean why should we test/repackage and fix it for etch ?
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> \sh, i'd like to leave this to debian
<dholbach> ok... did we agree on the process yet?
<dholbach> the one who gets a NEW package in, will file an rtp with a link to his source package in our archive?
<ivoks> \sh: DDs will do that
<siretart> I havn't seen a counter proposal, so I assume yes
<ivoks> dholbach: yes
<ogra> dholbach, yes
<\sh> ogra, i don't mind to give a package to debian which is not building on there systems
<ajmitch> dholbach: RFP in general, ITP is the MOTU is really keen
<dholbach> yes... rfp
<\sh> dholbach, aggreed
<dholbach> excellent, that's a majority - shall we proceed?
<ogra> \sh, if they want it, they can take it
<tseng> dholbach: lets go!
<ivoks> dholbach: YES :)
<ogra> yep
<ajmitch> proceed, please.. :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> I'll edit MOTUNewPackagesPolicy in the mean time
<ogra> so new teams, that was yours dholbach 
<siretart> if a MOTU is agreeing taking over maintenance for debian for that package, he can rename the RFP to an ITP anyway. so: next ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, topic closed ;)
<siretart> :)
* schweeb silently rejoins the meeting
<dholbach> i was trying to think of ways to have new teams (and they seem to pop up quite often these days) working close with the debian counterparts - how can we get going?
<siretart> dholbach: can you give an example?
<\sh> centralized communication  between the motu teams and debian teams
<dholbach> \sh: had some ideas for this
<\sh> so one email address for one motu team, the same for debian ( if it's not already)
<dholbach> siretart: the kde team, the upcoming gnome team, the python team, the mono team is already ROCKING, the upcoming games team
<dholbach> do you think we should advertise them on the debian lists as well?
<wasabi_> The Java team is rocking too!
<schweeb> dholbach: could make it a required step to communicate with the debian counterparts (or at least try to) for when you upload a different version number of a package, or make a significant patch/fix
<wasabi_> Woo hoo!
<dholbach> wasabi_: yeah!
<schweeb> oh, you're talking about the team stuff, n/m
<ajmitch> or if the teams actually become one, have a common archive for packaging (eg alioth)
<\sh> after all, there should be a teamlead who can cover most of the "governance" work, e.g. which software has more prio then other blabla
<ogra> \sh, a SPOC ?
<\sh> SPOC?
<Unfrgiven> ogra: SPOC?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> noc spoc
<dholbach> single point of contact
<ivoks> yes!
<ogra> \sh, i'd like to see that as well :)
* siretart doesn't quite understand. What is the problem right now, and what do we want to improve?
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ok..let me explain one thing :)
<ogra> siretart, me neither, but its on the agenda....
<ivoks> \sh: elaborate :)
<ajmitch> siretart: the near-complete lack of coordination between debian & ubuntu on some packages "_
<wasabi_> Coordinating with Debian is hard.
<ogra> siretart, we only have 21 MOTUs yet, its to early for team processes...
<Unfrgiven> ogra: 22 next week hopefully :)
<siretart> ajmitch: do you have an example of a concrete package?
<ogra> ajmitch, nope, that was the last topic
<\sh> when a team is getting bigger, and you don't have a SPOC ;) everybody can speak for a team, and then we have something like "quasselbude" in germany in the beginning of the 20th century
<ivoks> \sh: or debian these days :)
<ogra> \sh, we have a process for tht
<ogra> \sh, the first approved MOTU who enters a team leads it... 
<ajmitch> ogra: I thought we were talking about teams & how they can coordinate with existing debian teams?
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> which is how I got lumped as zope team lead
<ogra> since a team can consist of a lot of other eople
<\sh> ogra, i didn't know 
<\sh> then forget about what I said ;)
<ogra> dholbach, oh, there are more then 3 teams in debian ?
<dholbach> ogra: ?
<ogra> dholbach, i thought there is only kernel, gnome and KDE for now... and the rest is individually maintained
<dholbach> ogra:  there are loads of teams
<ogra> oh...
<ajmitch> plenty of teams around
<dholbach> parted team, common lisp team, vim team, ...
<ogra> i wasnt aare
<ajmitch> lots of them are on alioth
<dholbach> x team
<ajmitch> mono team, zope team
<siretart> release team (scnr)
<ogra> ok ok
<dholbach> my question was merely, how can we improve the situation there? how can we get teams going? and do we want to announce each and every single bit like team meetings/plans to the debian lists?
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: there might be some backlash against us advertising our meetings on debian-devel
<ogra> dholbach, they would be annoyed very soon i guess
<schweeb> ^^^
<schweeb> I have an idea
<\sh> when i comes to a community work between both distris then yes, if it's only a internal meeting then no
<schweeb> what's the possibility of each team getting a mailing list
<schweeb> and asking the debian devs to subscribe
<schweeb> so then, if they're interested, they've voluntarily subscribed
<ogra> schweeb, NO !
<schweeb> lol
<ivoks> suicide
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> Unfrgiven, ogra: given the load of CRACK on all the mailing lists, this would be important bits and at least we could try
<schweeb> it's the best way for them to be plugged in, yet be voluntarily plugged in
<dholbach> flaming teams for willing to do good work together is ... you know ... idiotic
<dholbach> and as many of you said before: we can only offer
<siretart> hm. how many teams in ubuntu do we have atm which have a debian counterpart?
<ivoks> well... scheduled posts?
<dholbach> and offering should be in prominent places
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeams
<dholbach> MOTUTeams
<ogra> dholbach, ubuntu-devel, i dont see any need for 50 mailing lists... or how many teams we'll ever have
<dholbach> ogra: you won't have seen me advertising additional mailing lists today
<\sh> oh yes
<\sh> sorry
<ajmitch> ogra: there will still have to be a place for team discussion that 95% of u-d people don't care about :)
<siretart> \sh: I'm counting 3 on that list: InstallerTeam, KernelTeam and Kubuntu
<\sh> siretart, nono
<schweeb> team forums maybe?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams maybe?
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams
<\sh> there is a bug on the wiki
<ogra> ajmitch, so whats the problem... ubuntu-devel is very low traffic... and if i actually look at other lists we have, i really doubt they are needed....
<siretart> ah
<ogra> (i have -hardened in mind for  example)
<dholbach> ogra: I'm not talking about any new mailing list
<dholbach> i'm talking about making announcements and reaching hands out, coordinating
<\sh> guys, who will make the first contact with the debian counterpart? so if this is settled, they can decide how the communication is done
<dholbach> and people who are annoyed about an announcement like that should be silently ignored
<ivoks> JanC_: me too :)
<ivoks> i think every team should post a message of help offering
<siretart> hm. I think we could define some template suggesting how the Ubuntu team should present themselves: important point should be a Team Lead, goals for ubuntu and current problems and plans. with that presentation, it should be more easy for the debian counterpart to get in contact with the team in a sensible manner
<ivoks> then evey team could decide how to communicate
<ajmitch> ivoks: yes, but maybe just to the debian team if there is one, not to the whole debian world
<ivoks> ajmitch: maybe
<dholbach> make it BIG! :)
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> one message with all details
<ivoks> why, who, plans, etc...
<dholbach> yeah
<ivoks> template is needed for that
<\sh> some rocking sound as multimedia introduction, so everybody can hear it ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> \sh: specialy for kernel team :)
<ajmitch> for me, it was the other way round.. the debian team contacted me :)
<dholbach> add suggestions to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto :)
<ogra> dholbach dancing naked in a blurry background behind the scrolling text and some funny music ? 
<ivoks> not to fancy message
<dholbach> yeah - that sounds brilliant
<dholbach> ;-)
<ivoks> simple, straightforward
<ogra> or would that scare debian away ?
<\sh> sound: queen we will rock you -> font family: MS comic -> font-size 72pt: text: we want you :)
<ajmitch> ogra: sorry, but it would scare me away
<ajmitch> ;)
<siretart> \sh: waaaaah! :)
<\sh> and actually: "winning web award" ,-)
<ogra> ajmitch, me too, but i'm no DD ;)
<ivoks> guy, it's 1AM, let
<ivoks> let's get back to buissness
<ajmitch> ok ok
<ogra> ok, who does a template ?
* ogra has no video cam
<ivoks> hm...
<\sh> template ? video cam?
<ivoks> well i could do a pretemplate
<ogra> \sh, joking
<dholbach> what did we agree on?
<ogra> dholbach, a template ?
<ivoks> we didn't
<\sh> document template for wiki pages
<ivoks> no
<\sh> for motu teams
<ogra> no
<ivoks> template for a message
<Nafallo> dholbach: you dancing naked? :-)
<ogra> for messages
<dholbach> we should add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ok.
<ivoks> for debian teams, explaining who we are, what we want to do and how can we help
<ogra> ok, ivoks makes a first template and puts it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto ??
<ivoks> ogra: consider it done
<dholbach> excellent
<ogra> thanks :)
<ivoks> any special format? :) .doc or .xls? :)
<ogra> binary please
<ivoks> ok.. 0 and 1 it is
<Unfrgiven> do we know which teams weare going to announce?
<ogra> Unfrgiven, yes, all that have mmbers :)
<dholbach> we should have preliminary team leads
<ogra> members even
<dholbach> which attract new members and get going
<tseng> bwar no :(
<Unfrgiven> ogra: which is like 3 right now isnt it?
<ivoks> yes, leaders should be people we trust most
<tseng> teams and leads are such crack
<tseng> im tired of that stuff from gentoo
<ivoks> for example, orga, dholbach, \sh, tseng etc..
<tseng> it was so pain.
<ogra> and remember !! a team may not only iclude MOTUs
<dholbach> tseng: "a contact"
<\sh> tseng, cause it was wrong in gentoo
<tseng> \sh: yes :)
<ogra> tseng, someone who talks for the team ....
<dholbach> tseng: somebody who does the uploads/announcements :)
<\sh> tseng, but we're not gentoo :)
<dholbach> tseng: somebody who does the work ;)
<tseng> haha
* \sh looks behind if he finds the door 
<dholbach> so who is the preliminary team lead for MOTU...?
<\sh> ivoks, u forgot ivoks :)
<dholbach> ;)
<ivoks> \sh: no, i didn't :)
<dholbach> ok... shall we proceed?
<\sh> MOTU* : ogra and dholbach :)
<dholbach> i have to get up in 6 hours again :)
<\sh> motukde: riddell ;)
<ogra> dholbach, so we have plenty of time :)
<ivoks> \sh: i don't have upload rights, so I can't be teamspeeker
<\sh> ok...++ for me
<\sh> ivoks, u r motu thats it :)
<\sh> ok..proceed?
<ogra> ivoks, you can speak, cant you ?
<ivoks> ogra: well, acctually...
<ogra> ok, \sh do you want to give us a status about CXX ?
<ivoks> i can :) but, i didn't decide for a team for now
<ogra> \sh, i think you were the most active of us all
<Unfrgiven> i'd just like to add that \sh has been amazing for the CXX transition... ++\sh
<\sh> ok...short story: we're just finished :) now, we're all here (most of them) and I need a short status of the outstanding packages...
<ogra> (and deserve all the flowers you get for it)
<ajmitch_> irssi acting like crap again :(
<dholbach> yeah... absolutely - i was impressed - he even beat the shit out of the buildds on the weekend!
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> doko asked be today again ;)
<\sh> s/be/me/
<ivoks> ok... shoot
<\sh> so we have some packages left on the frozenapps, some are showstoppers...and we have to decide
<Unfrgiven> \sh: gmetadom still has build errors which i need to resolve. ace needs a patch which i'll look into as well
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: check fedora's patches
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: they did transition
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: good thinking. ill do that
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: maybe they have something you are looking for
<\sh> ok I think we should go and clean this CxxList and put the already finished packages on another page
<Unfrgiven> gmetadom and ace are the only two pacakges i have left.
<ajmitch_> \sh: good idea, I know I
<ajmitch_> 've got a few patches outstanding
<ajmitch_> and I have to check on clanlib to get the build fixed
<ivoks> \sh: all i started, i finished, only one package left pending
<\sh> I know there are some packages which are not easy, (at least I have one of it) but if it's not patchable/fixable from us, we should inform upstream, or just check upstream, and if there is no fix, we should leave it, or try to compile it with gcc-3.4 or really leave it
<\sh> ivoks, uploaded?
<ivoks> \sh: i can't upload
<ivoks> \sh: i had one typo, fixed it
<\sh> ivoks, who did upload? :) 
<ivoks> \sh: you did some, doko did some
<ogra> \sh, compile with gcc-3.4, else we'll have users complaining
<\sh> ok
<\sh> ogra, even this doesn't help sometimes :(
<ivoks> \sh: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11818
<\sh> ogra, actually I saw even fedora throwing it out and waiting for patches from upstream
<ogra> \sh, then drop it.... but if we can get it in anyhow i wouldnt....
<\sh> ogra, that's what I said
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch_> I need to get a list of what packages I've still got to work on :)
<\sh> ajmitch, i didn't change any packages from you ;)
<\sh> doko: ping u around?
<\sh> ok...so everybody who has packages ready but can't upload, send me a mail with the bugzilla entries
<ivoks> ok
<\sh> if anybody needs some help, please bug in #u-motu or #u-devel/#u-toolchain ;)
<ivoks> i need help :)
<\sh> and if anybody sees danielN around, hold him and tell him he has to fix bugs ;)
<ivoks> long meeting :)
<dholbach> ivoks: you call this long? ;)
<\sh> I'm done...and I want this cxx stuff finished at least in the middle of the next week
<dholbach> !
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> dholbach: well, longer than others i was in
<ivoks> \sh: cxx libs or everything?
<\sh> what we done , was amazing :)
<ogra> ok, thanks all, lets clos this meeting if nobody has other business
<\sh> ivoks, cxx libs 
<ogra> close even
<\sh> ivoks, most of the applications are on the buildd
<ivoks> i have one question
<\sh> waiting
<dholbach> next meeting?
<\sh> 4 weeks?
<ogra> oh, yes
<ogra> yeps
<ivoks> why does mako and elmo ignores me? :)
<ivoks> do even
<siretart> they don't. they are 'just' busy
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: too busy for u :P
<\sh> mako is at linuxtag next week
<ivoks> hehe ok
<elmo> ivoks: mako said he asked you for a signed CoC
<\sh> hahahaha
<ivoks> elmo: hi i have sent it
<\sh> I new it
<\sh> knew even
<ivoks> two times
<schweeb> yea, he never got back to me as to whether the CoC I had sent was good
<ogra> 2005-07-19 ? 
<ogra> at which time ?
<elmo> ivoks: to what address?
<ivoks> elmo: mako@ubuntu.com IIRC
<ivoks> elmo: i just replyed
<ogra> guys, can we agree on a time, before everybody leaves ?
<ivoks> i can check,,,
<ivoks> ogra: sure
<elmo> ivoks: please reply again and cc me, so I can check the mailserver logs
<ivoks> ok
<\sh> 20th of july?
<Unfrgiven> ogra: 2200UTC is easiest for me to make
<Unfrgiven> and 20th July sounds fine
<\sh> which timezone is not covered ?
<ogra> hmm
<siretart> any objections to hold the meeting at 2100UTC?
<dholbach> not from me
<schweeb> what time is it right now, UTC?
<thom> 11:24
<ogra> schweeb, date -u
<thom> date -u
<\sh> 23:24
<\sh> utc
<Unfrgiven> siretart: i wont be able to make that. cuz its 7am for me and i cant be there from home as i have to leave for work. and getting to work at 7am is not possible
<schweeb> should be good for most people in the US, except many may be at work, or just getting out
<dholbach> hey thom 
<ivoks> elmo: if it helps:
<thom> hey dude
<tritium> ogra, I won't be present, but 2 days after the next meeting, I'll be free from my academic obligations finally :)
<dholbach> thom: long time no see :)
<ogra> yay
<ivoks> elmo: Jun  8 21:37:32 master postfix/smtp[26528] : 24424E6A48: to=<mako@ubuntu.com>,  relay=fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com[82.211.81.145] , delay=1, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 04CB8B683A1)
<siretart> Unfrgiven: ok. was just a question/suggestion..
<\sh> i think once in a month we can do this 22utc meeting?
* \sh is also tired and I have to get up at 3utc 
<ogra> sure, i have no problems with either time
<\sh> ogra, u don't sleep at all;)
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> at the end of the month ;)
<thom> dholbach: indeed. how's the thesis going? all done now?
<\sh> ogra: oh...sherif is married ;)
<ogra> wow
<dholbach> thom: i wish i could say that
<ogra> \sh, send him my congrats :)
<\sh> ogra, he came back this evening :) 
<dholbach> thom: i'm VERY busy, but i'll have to hand it in august, 18th, i'll somehow make it ;)
<\sh> ok..20th July 22:00 UTC?
<thom> dholbach: heh. just so long as you avoid motu till then? ;-)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: im fine with that
<dholbach> thom: the guys already had to live without me
<\sh> any cons?
<dholbach> thom: how are you?
<ogra> \sh, i just added it to the new agenda ;)
<dholbach> ogra: excellent!
<\sh> ogra, thx :)
<thom> dholbach: melthing
<thom> uh, melting
<ogra> i'll write the minutes and send them to the list the next days....
<dholbach> meeting closed - we did it! :)
<\sh> so..gentlemen good night, good morning, good afternoon whereever you are :) I'm off to bed now :)
<dholbach> good night \sh 
<thom> otherwise pretty good
<ogra> ciao \sh 
<dholbach> thank you, ogra 
<\sh> thx dholbach :)
<ogra> yes thanks everybody
<\sh> cu ogra :) and sign my package :)
<dholbach> thom: i wonder what my next appartment will be like, but that'll be in september :)
<ogra> \sh, i looked at it
<ogra> \sh, its fine ... go for an upload...
<tseng> sorry i had dinner
<ivoks> night all
<dholbach> night ivoks 
<tritium> night ivoks 
<dholbach> i'll be off to bed now, too
<ogra> ciao ivoks dholbach 
<tritium> good night, dholbach.
<ajmitch_> bye dholbach, ivoks, \sh 
<tritium> Bye all.  Like dholbach, I have a thesis to write.  Thanks for being understanding about my unavailability until July 22.
<ivoks> yeah
<dholbach> tritium: everybody understands
<ivoks> i'll be unavaliable too
<tritium> And I am very appreciate of that, all :)
<ivoks> lot's of exams next 2-3 weeks
<tseng> see all you kids after schools out
<tseng> now to sleep with you
<ivoks> :)
<tritium> good night :)
* ajmitch_ is glad to finally be finished with exams
<siretart> ok, /me will leave to. gn8 folks!
<dholbach> bye everyone
* terrex bye
<Mez> where's the usual pre-meeting debate?
<ogra> mako, already in germany ?
<Mez> his host says he isnt
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hi
<ogra> Mez, his host is a server at home :)
<Mez> ah ... BNC :P
<mako> i'm not in germany yet
<mako> it's quite early here
<ogra> ah
<mako> i leave tomorrow
<ogra> its a dry and warm afternoon here
<mako> quite the same here actually
<jsgotangco> im getting hungry for dinner :)
* Mez is eating pasta
<mako> alright.. gonna make coffee
<jsgotangco> gyaahh
<ivoks> hi all
<Mez> hey ivoks
<squinn> I'm here.
<squinn> G'morning, Jerome, Benjamin
<ivoks> hi Mez mako squinn jsgotangco ogra ;)
<ivoks> i'm repeating my self :)
<squinn> I just got up [read: had mom wake me up] 
<Mez> lol
<squinn> Hey, ivoks.
<Mez> hey sequinn
<squinn> Hey Martin.
<Mez> :P
<jsgotangco> morning all (rather evening here)
<Mez> I prefer MEz
<Mez> afternoon here
<ivoks> jsgotangco: here is 2PM :)
<squinn> Hey Mez*
<squinn> I'm the only one who's in morning, I think*
<jsgotangco> i wish it was 2pm here as well maybe i gotta move
<jsgotangco> squinn, mako's in NY
<squinn> mako, aren't you at LinuxTag today though?
<mako> i'm not at linuxtag yet
<mako> i leave tomorrow
<squinn> oh, right, starts tomorrow
<\sh> morning
<ivoks> \sh fabbione 
<Mez> I'm ssurprised Amaranth isnt here tyet
<ivoks> there are few seconds left :)
<ivoks> Tue Jun 21 12:00:46 UTC 2005
<Mez> -mako- TIME Tue Jun 21 08:10:20 2005
<squinn> I've got eight -- even.
<ivoks>  /exec -o date --utc
<jsgotangco> hi henrik
<hno73> jsgotangco: hi :)
<mako> Mez: i think your clock is fast
<mako> Mez: 8-10 minutes
<ivoks> hehe
<mako> let me find the rest of the CC
<Mez> mako - I did a ctcp time on you :D
<Mez> It's your closck thats fast
<ivoks> Mez: it's 08:03
<sabdfl> hi all
<mako> Mez: yes, my clock *is* fast :)
<Mez> I know
<ivoks> hi
<Mez> Tue Jun 21 12:03:51 UTC 2005
<mako> elmo: ?
<dholbach> hi
<Mez> but I was pasting makpo's time output seeing as he's CC
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<squinn> morning mark
<elmo> mako: .
<ogra> elmo, so did you get some sleep ?
<mako> ok, that's the council
<fabbione> hi guys
<jsgotangco> dholbach!
<jsgotangco> silbs, hi
<dholbach> jsgotangco: hey jerome :)
<Mez> mako, wo's the coucil (nicknames ?)
<Mez> I've never been sure:d
<ogra> Mez, Kamion sabdfl elmo mako
<ogra> did i miss someone ?
<mako> alright, everyone here should say their names for hte record/log/writeup
* mako is Benjamin Mako Hill
<dholbach> DanielHolbach
* ivoks is Ante Karamatic
<ogra> is Oliver Grawert
<sabdfl> Mark Shuttleworth
* Mez = Martin Meredith
* shawarma is Sren Hansen
<squinn> <--- Sean D. Quinn [Spectator] 
<dholbach> shawarma: hey sren :)
<fabbione> Fabio M. Di Nitto
* Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
<chmj> Charles Majola 
<zul> Chuck Short
<shawarma> dholbach: Hey there. :-)
* JRe is Jean-Remy Falleri
* hno73 is Henrik Nilsen Omma
<Treenaks> Martijn van de Streek
* Kamion is Colin Watson
<shawarma> If I suddenly go missing it's problaby just another lightning that's knocked out my net.. :-(
<elmo> James Troup
<mako> alright
<mako> the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> reload as i removed a few old items that had snuck in
<squinn> I noticed that, mako.
<sabdfl> do we have anyone here from the docteam?
<jsgotangco> ooppss
<jsgotangco> yes
<ogra> jsgotangco, 
<jsgotangco> Jerome Gotangco
<sabdfl> hiya
<Mez> shouldnt MarekSpruell be in previous meetings2 ?
<jsgotangco> sorry
<sabdfl> ok
<squinn> Mark, hi. I'm from DocTeam. Jerome and I.
<mako> Mez: yes
<Mez> :P
<jsgotangco> I serve as docteam secretary for now
<dholbach> mako: same for SvenHerzberg, herzi is not on freenode
* \sh is Stephan Hermann
<ogra> dholbach, he was around today...
* hno73 hangs out with the doc team too
<mako> smurfix: you around?
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<mako> smurfix: any locoteam activity to report?
<mako> anyone here from a new loco that we haven't met yet?
<squinn> I'm thinking about starting a LoCo here.
<shawarma> So am I.
<mako> where are you guys?
<shawarma> That's in Denmark, btw.
<squinn> mako, GO Area
<squinn> Greater Orlando*
<squinn> Florida, USA
<jsgotangco> LoCo team Philippine side news: we just had our first get-together last saturday :)
<squinn> I finally came in contact with a few LUGs, so I can see who's running Ubuntu, pass out CDs at breezy release, etc.
<mako> jsgotangco: how did it go?
<mako> squinn: great!
<jsgotangco> dude, we drank so much coffee we were all stoned
<sabdfl> jsgotangco: rockin
<jsgotangco> we're sponsoring SFD over here in Sept
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members
<mako> squinn, shawarma: should try to find a few more people to sort of get critical mass for a local community team :)
<sabdfl> i'd like to start keeping track of membership requests in Launchpad
<squinn> mako, and/or convert a few friends without them knowing it
<Mez> mako: do we want a critical mass for loco's then they'll implode and wont exist
<sabdfl> your login on this site is the same as wiki / website
<shawarma> mako: Sure thing. I'll start thinking about that.
<dholbach> sabdfl: that's good news - and it'll be more up-to-date than http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMembers :)
<sabdfl> yes
<jsgotangco> oohh..3 are approved now :)
<hno73> shawarma: are you far from Copenhagen?
<mako> shawarma, squinn: you can coordinate with smurfix 
<Seveas> sorry i'm late :)
<shawarma> hno73: Quite. The opposite end of the country.
<\sh> hmm...I can't add myself ;)
<ogra> \sh, why not ?
<mako> sabdfl: is there anything to it on my side or is it all self-explanatory?
<squinn> Because I mean, I've got a few friends who have at least gone a little open-source (I've gotten them to use Firefox in Win32).
<sabdfl> far from it, unfortunately
<hno73> Ah, so cycling distance then :)
<sabdfl> definitely in need of UI love
<squinn> But, at my age, it's hard to really convert that many teens to use Linux.
<shawarma> hno73: Not likely. :-D
<squinn> Dennis, no worries.
<shawarma> hno73: Almost 5 hours by train.
<\sh> ogra, i don't have the permissions ;)
<ogra> squinn, so convert the mature people then :)
<sabdfl> how, for instance, does someone sign up to a team?
<sabdfl> oww
<squinn> ogra, they're more confused.
<\sh> ahhhh....
<mako> ah, ok
<squinn> stub your toe, sabdfl?
* mako nods
<sabdfl> somewhat
<mako> well... speaking of members
<mako> we have some new member requests to review
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+join
<sabdfl> could folks who would like to become members please visit that url
<jsgotangco> oh i forgot i already applied on that
<\sh> sabdfl, first of all i have to enter my gpg key then sign again the coc?
<Treenaks> sabdfl: how about current members? I'm not on there, for example
<shawarma> sabdfl: Done.
<ogra> \sh, nah, you already signed and are approved
<mako> Treenaks: the vast majority of people are not
<\sh> ogra, but in my members area, there is a new field..gpg key and signed coc
<Treenaks> mako: good point
<jsgotangco> \sh, i don't think it doesnt work yet, i tried last night
<jsgotangco> wait
<ogra> Treenaks, you were asked to subscribe thete in the last CC
<jsgotangco> wrong english
<ogra> there
<Treenaks> ogra: I wasn't there
<ogra> Treenaks, so do it now ;)
* Treenaks kicks launchpad
<Treenaks> or no
<Treenaks> sorry
<Seveas> Treenaks, there is always the summary :)
<mako> sabdfl: are you the contact for getting this organized/set-up/into use
<mako> sabdfl: i've got a good chunk of data on membership and ubuntites to help get in there
<mako> we mentioned this last time but i never found out who i should be working with to get this set up
<sabdfl> it should just work:
<sabdfl>  - folks who want to go to join, go to the url I gave above
<Seveas> by the way: why is the launchpad favicon a duck..?
<sabdfl>  - the CC can then approve or defer any application
<mako> sabdfl: ok, so only for new members
<\sh> this is confusing me ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<sabdfl> seveas - inside joke, hasn't been changed to anything else yet, artistic contributions welcome :-)
<ivoks> :)
<jsgotangco> im doing it anyway
<sabdfl> mako: will do the same for maintainers too
<Seveas> sabdfl, ok :)
<mako> sabdfl: ubuntites?
<sabdfl> but that has the extra issue of which components they can upload to 
<sabdfl> mako: check with celso, he's handling the ubuntites bit
<mako> alright
<mako> easy enough
<mako> so, maybe we can move on to look at new member applications.. :)
<jsgotangco> great
<\sh> so only "press join" and the rest is done by mako?
<Seveas> \sh, yes
<Seveas> (in theory ;))
<mako> Stacy Webb
<mako> yes, i'll approve "already members" right after the meeting
<\sh> mako, ok :)
* Treenaks pokes his greylist
<mako> as long as i actually have that ability
<mako> is stacy here?
<Seveas> launchpad is kinda slow atm
<squinn> off-topic, but I'm creating FloridaTeam right now.
<Kamion> requiring students to use Ubuntu> gosh. :-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<Kamion> seems like a straightforward advocacy application
* Mez is phone
<dholbach> i think she wasn't her last time as well
<\sh> mako, StacyWebb looks like a aka for britney spears ;)
<dholbach> s/her/here
* Mez is on phone
<jsgotangco> haha
<mako> yeah, i'll move stacy to the needs to show up pile
<mako> i think she'd make a great ubuntite with a signed coc
<dholbach> yeah
<mako> alright.. Matt Galvin
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mako> wait
<mako> handled him on jun 07
<mako> doh
<squinn> heh
<Seveas> lol :)
<mako> shawarma, you're up
<shawarma> Er. Ok. What am I supposed to say/do?
<mako> ok, we'll look at your wiki page..
<jsgotangco> shawarma, the sandwhich (sorry)?
<Seveas> what you do for Ubuntu and what you are planning to 
<Seveas> in a few lines
<shawarma> jsgotangco: Kind of.. I'll tell you later.
<mako> you should give a few sentances about what you have worked on in terms of contributions to the community and what you visition for ubuntu is
<mako> what Seveas said
<dholbach> i persuaded shawarma to have a look into the MOTU team ;)
<shawarma> Seveas: Well, right now I'm trying to get a few packages into Universe (as can be seen on the MOTUNewPackages page). I obviously advocate Ubuntu whereever I go (almost pursuaded my workplace into moving from Debian / Redhat to UBuntu).
<Kamion> yeah, I was going to ask if anyone there had looked over those packages
<shawarma> Other than that I'm about to start a consulting company specializing in Ubuntu.
<\sh> Kamion, review day...:)
<dholbach> Kamion: not yet, i'll do it on the review day! :)
<jsgotangco> awesome
<ogra> Kamion, we have a review day
<shawarma> I maintain a load of debs for my colleagues.
* Mez is bakc
<Mez> back *
* Seveas thinks: shawarma would be a good member once his packages are approved in Ubuntu/Debian. More fresh blood for the MOTU
* smurfix is here now
<squinn> yeah, especially..there's a package in main that needs updating
<shawarma> My plans include more advocacy, bugsquashing, packaging..
<squinn> or at least updated version in breezy
<shawarma> And obviously the consulting thing.
<mako> shawarma: ha consulting company, wow :)
<shawarma> I'll probably join the MOTU team within a few days..
<ogra> :)
<shawarma> mako: :-) What's so funny?
<shawarma> shawarma: I'm an idealist. It could work.
<shawarma> Why do I always write to myself?
<Seveas> :)
<chmj> heh
<jsgotangco> heh
<shawarma> Well, I'll give it shot, that's for sure. Part time at first, but hopefully full time in a short while.
<Seveas> if shawarma joins the motu in a few days, i'd say lets postpone his application for 2 weeks and see how the MOTU loves him
<mako> ora
<tseng> yes please, this is the first im hearing of him
<tseng> 2 weeks is perfect if he gets involved in that time
<mako> 
<Mez>   ??
<Seveas> mako, don't let the cat walk on your keyboard please :)
<ogra> Seveas, i havent seen shawarma in #ubuntu-motu yet
<jsgotangco> i don't mind 2 weeks isn't a long time
<shawarma> ogra: I'm there right now...
<shawarma> ogra: Lurking, though. :-)
<dholbach> ogra, tseng: he was somehow misinformed, he should become a DD first :-/
<ogra> shawarma, and i'd also like to see the bugs you mention listed, even if tey are small ones :)
<Mez> DD?
<tseng> dholbach: eh?
<Seveas> Debian Developer
<shawarma> debian devloper
<tseng> dholbach: DD takes months if you are lucky.
<mako> 
<dholbach> yeah, i dunno who gave him that piece of information
<ogra> shawarma, nope, thats not necessary... even if its welcomed :)
<Seveas> mako, are you ok..?
<shawarma> tseng: Someone on ubunu-motu told me a few weeks ago that I should become a DD first. I don't remember who, though.
<\sh> hmmm...utf-8 is not working here :(
<Mez> I think mako's having a fit
<dholbach> NOOOOO! mako has water in his keyboard again!
<tseng> shawarma: hm they are quite wrong.
<Seveas> ohno
<jsgotangco> that's great
<shawarma> tseng: I might have just misunderstood, though, but at least that's what I think he told me.
<jsgotangco> wohhoo
<\sh> shawarma, who was it?
<mako> sorry
<tseng> shawarma: so please get involved these next two weeks so we can get to know you
<mako> my keyboard broke
<tseng> wb mako.
<dholbach> yeah, whoever that was... deserves... whatever
<mako> i had to go find a new one
<shawarma> \sh: If I didn't know any better I'd say you or ogra. However, I might have misunderstood.
<Mez> lol
<Mez> keyboards just 2break" ?
<mako> luckily, i have a backup for just such occasions
<Seveas> :)
<ogra> shawarma, i cant remember talking to you
<squinn> HEH
<ivoks> huh
<squinn> aaah caps
<squinn> heh*
<\sh> ogra, me neither
<mako> alright, in any case :)
<tseng> damn ion3 keyboard abusers
<ivoks> i hope laptop keyboards don't break too often :)
<shawarma> ogra: I have that effect on people.. They just get hungry when they see my nick and then forget we talked. :-D
<Seveas> shawarma, so to sum up: you'd better get involved with the MOTU first, becoming a member is based on both past and future contributions
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> who's up next?
<Seveas> PeterVanEynde
<squinn> question though from an outsider
<shawarma> Seveas: Cool.
<pvaneynd> present
<squinn> don't you have to be a maintainer [and thereby a member]  to be with the MOTU?
<tseng> squinn: can you ask off topic things in #ubuntu-motu for now please?
<Seveas> squinn, you can be involved with the MOTU without being a member
<ogra> Seveas, but not be a MOTU
<squinn> ah, sorry tseng 
<Mez> lol - Seveas - I was originally told by ogra i had to beomce a member first :D
<Seveas> pvaneynd, ok, the 2-line introduction please
<squinn> ah, i think i understand
<ogra> Mez, to be a MOTU, yes.... to be involved, no
<mako> is peter here?
<Seveas> mako, yes, pvaneynd :)
<tseng> mako: yes, pvaneynd 
<jsgotangco> pvaneynd
<mako> sorry, missed that
<squinn> you wouldn't be a MOTU, just a contributer to the MOTUs, right?
<mako> pvaneynd: what to give us the few sentance run down
<sabdfl> squinn: you can contribute, send patches, send packages for review etc
<pvaneynd> I'm a debian maintainer of a few Common Lisp related packages who would like to also take care of them in ubuntu.
<jsgotangco> squinn, #ubuntu-motu pls
* mako will try to not have his keyboard break again in the middle :)
<squinn> yeah, got it. cool, i like that.
<squinn> yeah, i'm there, and i'm moving all my stuff to there
<sabdfl> squinn: you can also become a member by doing lots of bug triage, or docs, or translations, or advocacy
<mako> pvaneynd: these are almsot certainly packages in "universe" which means you should be working with the MOTU group.. have you been doing so already?
<Kamion> mako: yeah, see his wiki page
<ogra> squinn, but please note the bugs down on your wiki
<pvaneynd> As none of the packages are in ubuntu proper this would mean working with the MOTU's
<squinn> ogra, yeah, i noted that from a user's wiki
* mako blushes
<mako> pvaneynd: have you started working with the motu groups yet? made some progress?
<squinn> sorry for the distraction -- on with the meeting
<dholbach> pvaneynd: they're not in ubuntu proper? what do you mean?
<tseng> sorry, ill have to suggest the same thing again.. can pvaneynd get involved with us for a few weeks?
* motaboy SimoneGotti I want to become a MOTU and need to be member :D
<tseng> and return.
<ogra> mako, i havent seen pvaneynd yet in -motu
<motaboy> Hi all!
<pvaneynd> At the moment I'm trying to start a MOTU team to handle the Common Lisp packages
<mako> pvaneynd: that sounds great :)
<mako> pvaneynd: we tend to use membership to recognize sustained contributions
<\sh> ogra, not right...i remember that I had tried this sbcl package to compile...a couple of weeks ago
<ogra> pvaneynd, you are aware of the requirements for a MOTUTeam ?
<pvaneynd> dholbach: all of them are in universe
<ogra> pvaneynd, what "not proper" with universe ?
<mako> pvaneynd: since the motu folks don't know you yet, the best situation would be to work with them over the next 2-4 weeks and then come back here
<Kamion> motaboy: ok, we're working our way down the list at the moment, and will get to you
<Kamion> motaboy: thanks for showing up
<mako> pvaneynd: you can sign the code of conduct now of course and gain ubuntite status :)
<pvaneynd> mako: ok, perfect
<mako> pvaneynd: great :)
<dholbach> woohoo! MOTUTeams! :)
<mako> #
<mako> TravisWatkins
<Seveas> immediate +1 on Amaranth from me
<tseng> hm Amaranth++
<tseng> but he is not here?
<ogra> has he sorted his key ?
<Mez> amaranth is idle
<jsgotangco> Definitely for Amaranth
<Mez> and someone said he was going to sign his key when they go to texas
<jsgotangco> (if he's here)
<dholbach> i called amaranth
<mako> i know amaranth here as well.. would be happy to have him on board
<\sh> amaranth++ he's hot and spicy :) for ubunut membership ;)
<\sh> s/ubunut/ubuntu/
* ogra is fine with approving Amaranth
<ivoks> ++ for armanath!
<Kamion> modulo the keysigning thing I'm happy with Amaranth
<Mez> +1 from me (though I'm not a member - yet)
<ogra> Mez, get your key signed !!
<Mez> ogra - I'm waiting on Phil hands to sign it
<mako> i'm willing to approve him based on the fact that he's showed up to just about every other CC meeting ever :)
<Mez> I went and met him liek - a week and a bit ago
<Mez> :(
<Mez> and he still ahsnt signed it
<ogra> :(
<jsgotangco> except his approval meeting?
<squinn> I'm forever in debt to Amaranth
<mako> sabdfl, elmo: want to do this now or postpone?
<squinn> haha jerome
<sabdfl> mako: can do it now
<mako> yeah, i have to do some crazy account reclaiming and merging first
<mako> i'm not going to get to it until after the meeting
<mako> elo, sabdfl: amaranth, yea/nay?
<mako> elmo even
<Seveas> elmo seems to be idle
<sabdfl>  +1 from me, sorry for the distraction
<mako> alright.. that's a majority
<sabdfl> for some reason, the world just decided to msg me
<\sh> sabdfl, /ignore world ;)
<Mez> * world :No such nick/channel
<mako> i can add elmo's ultimate answer to amaranth's Permanent Record :)
<elmo> ack
<Mez> permanent record ?
<mako> JeanRemyFalleri
<JRe> mako: yes!
<sabdfl> hey JRe
<mako> JRe: greetings, want to do the what i do/what i want to see done thing?
<JRe> mako: i want to help ubuntu by making packages and documentation
<mako> there is a JR and a JRe working on kubuntu.. oh man :)
<Riddell> mako: messes up my irssi highlights all the time
<Kamion> Riddell: have you worked with JRe?
<Riddell> Kamion: I have indeed, I fully recommend him for membership
<mako> Kamion: not only have the worked together, they are going to be simplifying things by merging into one single entity
<Kamion> haha
<mako> to reduce confusion
<Kamion> ok, well that's useful to know
<Seveas> :o)
<Riddell> he's made some packages of useful programmes
* \sh too I'm just reviewing his packages right now, and he's quite good
<Seveas> They'll become JRJRe, The JarJar of Ubuntu :) 
<jsgotangco> OMG
<JRe> Seveas: ;)
<jsgotangco> DIE
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> jk
* Mez is scared
<mako> JRe: so, where do you want to see ubuntu/kubuntu go?
<Mez> -1 for jar jar :D :P
<Riddell> his KubuntuPackagingGuide is the best documentation MOTU has at the moment :)
<JRe> mako: to the best linux distro for end user ever, of course!
<mako> JRe: easy enough, what sort of stuff do you want to do to help it get there?
<jsgotangco> OMG That is a nice document
<\sh> mako, i have to ++ riddell, it's right, for the cdbs + kde packaging universe, it's really a great work
<dholbach> Riddell: packaging guide? seems like he should get together with tseng, unfrgiven and ajmitch?
<Seveas> looks good indeed, but why call it KubuntuPackaging guide?
<Seveas> it's not Kubuntu specific
<JRe> mako: i plan to package soft which improves usability
<\sh> it should be included into IntroDevelopersDocs
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JRe> mako: i plan to develop software in order to improve usability
<ogra> \sh, does it cover debhelper scripts too ?
<\sh> ogra, no...
<ogra> Riddell, ^^ ?
<ogra> ah... sad
<\sh> ogra, but I think we can creae  the same guide for dhelper 
<\sh> create even
<ogra> \sh, i really dont like if newcomers are taught cdbs... but you like that
<dholbach> can we take the cdbs-bashing to somewhere else? :)
<ogra> s/like/know/
<mako> JRe: are interested in focusinng on kubuntu or working on stuff that impacts the distro as a whole?
<\sh> ogra, hu? where is it written? 
<ogra> \sh, that i dont like it ? 
<\sh> ogra, that I like it!
<JRe> mako: i am interessted to help the whole ubuntu project if i can, but i am more focused on the kubuntu project
<\sh> mako: JRe will join the MOTUKde team ;)
<\sh> he joined already
<mako> awesome
<ogra> \sh, lets talk over that somewhere else... i wan a plocy that the first package a MOTU touches must be debhelper...
<mako> JRe: well, we appreciate your contributions
<JRe> mako: thanks!
* mako is fine with JRe for membership
<dholbach> would be cool if the kubuntu newcomers were in #ubuntu-motu as well - so everybody would profit from your knowledge :)
<Kamion> ditto
<jsgotangco> dholbach, +1
* ogra has never seen any kubuntu guys in -motu (he thinks)
<JRe> dholbach: i'm adding this channel to my auto join list right now ;)
<ogra> except Riddell and \sh indeed
<dholbach> the kubuntu crew is a rocking team already
<\sh> ogra, riddell \sh
<dholbach> JRe: excellent :)
<ogra> \sh, ;)
<mako> sabdfl, elmo: JRe ?
<sabdfl> JRe: it's #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu that need attention :-)
<sabdfl>  +1 from me
<JRe> sabdfl: of course ;)
<elmo> ack
<mako> JRe: welcome :)
<mako> JRe: signed coc, on my desk :)
<Seveas> welcome JRe 
<\sh> JRe: rock :) welcome :)
<dholbach> rocking :)
<ogra> hi JRe 
<JRe> thanks all!!!
<ivoks> yay! :)
<mako> Mez: you're last up, no?
<mako> we looked at your application last time.. 
<Mez> you did? 
<Mez> o_O
<Mez> I only put it on the agenda last week :P
<Mez> I spoke to you in private about it D:
* mako must be confused
<Mez> you must be thinking of nalioth
<mako> in any case, do you want to do the spiel?
<Seveas> nalioth was approved last week and asked to lead the newbies project
<jsgotangco> NewbieGods?
<Mez> yeah ,nalioth and I are workign together on it :d
<dholbach> the name might be a bit irritating :)
<ogra> a bit ?
<Mez> dholbach, the name cna be changed :D
<sabdfl> NewbieHeroes?
<Seveas> please do change it
<ogra> sounds good
<Mez> NewbieGods was just a suggestion
<Seveas> oh and Mez don't forget to add me :)
<Mez> the for the people :D
<Mez> Seveas - did you send me your details ?
<sabdfl> TheNewbieNetwork
<Mez> caus ei may have lost them (reformatteD)
<Mez> sabdfl, UbuntuNeebieNetwork 
<Mez> :P
<\sh> NUN = NewUsersNetwork
<Mez> sNeebie/Newbie
<sabdfl> NUN is cool
<sabdfl> anyhow, OT
<sabdfl> Mez, what's your pitch for membership?
<hno73> UbuntNu
<\sh> sabdfl, please write it down as idea ;)
<mako> we don't need to decide the name here
<mako> we should however, make some decision on Mez 
* Seveas thinks: postpone
<Mez> Well, I'm currently working on setting up the UNP (NUN/whatever) which, I hope will work towards the future.
<mako> Mez: do you want do the what i've done/what i want to do thing :)
<Seveas> let's wait until NUN gets started
<Mez> I'm also a backport developer, and hope to become a kubuntu/MOTUKde packager/developer.
<Mez> I'm also a regular helper for all sers on the fourms, on IRc and when i can via the mailing lists.
<Seveas> Mez, have you already had contact with the MOTU, like having packages reviewed?
<ogra> Seveas, he is around in our channel regulary
<Mez> Seveas - I've been in contact with ogra briefly, but i havent had packages reviewed
<sabdfl> Mez - have you been busy on the forums or lists?
<Riddell> Mez has done a couple of very useful updates to kubuntu packages which have been uploaded
<Mez> yes sabdfl 
<chmj> erm, how about calling them LOTU = Lords Of The Universe ? 
<sabdfl> i would consider a substantial presence and work on the forums to be candidacy for membership
<sabdfl> are you a forums admin or moderator?
<Mez> I've also updated konversaiton for breezy, and fixed the k3b package for breezy
<sabdfl> ok, good enough for me
<ogra> Riddell, i'd appreciate if we could coordinate kubuntu and the motu a bit more, most of the kubuntu people you propse i have never heard about....
<Mez> sabdfl, I'm being considered for moderatorship, however the proccess is long and complicated
<ogra> Riddell, ... neither have i seen any packages...
<dholbach> ogra: there are loads on MOTUNewPackages
<dholbach> ogra: loads of kde packages
<Mez> ogra - #kubunut-devel
<ogra> dholbach, sure, but i'd like to know the person i vote for
<Mez> ogra - #kubuntu-devel *
<sabdfl> ok, w.r.t. Mez, we can either decide now or wait for NUN
<sabdfl> elmo, kamion, mako?
* mako is happy with Mez for membership
* ogra too
<\sh> ogra, he provided some patches for konversation k3b etc.
<\sh> mez++ for membership
<Mez> k3b was a pain in the ass to fix :D would build under hoary but not under breezy :D
<ogra> \sh, its just te lack of information exchange that bothery me
<ogra> bothers even
<sabdfl> ogra's getting all hot and bothery :-)
<ivoks> Mez: gcc/g++4
<\sh> ogra, ok, let me be your GW between the 10x10 and 90x10 world :)
<sabdfl> heatwave in germany, i heard ;-)
<ogra> yes, lol
<Mez> yeah i know ivoks :D was just a picky compiler and sloppy coding
<dholbach> haha :)
<ogra> \sh, lol
<Kamion> I'm ok with Mez, if he promises to work with ogra to keep him happy :-)
<sabdfl> Mez: looks like you are close, but not quite there
<sabdfl> ah... over the hump :-)
<Seveas> hehe
<Nafallo> Kamion++
<Mez> lol @ Kamion ... I'm all for bringin kubuntu and MOTU closer
<Nafallo> :-)
<sabdfl> that's martin meredith, right Mez?
<dholbach> excellent news!
<\sh> Mez, send ogra some 10x10 packages ;)
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<ogra> Kamion, he already does, but for example i didnt even know he already had packaged something for us
<Seveas> KuMOTU?
<Mez> yip sabdfl 
<elmo> ack from me too
<mako> Mez: welcome
<Mez> \sh thought it as 90x10
<sabdfl> ok, i've updated the members list
<mako> ok.. 
<Seveas> OK, welcome aboard Mez!
<Mez> ty
<ogra> yay for Mez 
<\sh> mez: kde=90x10 gnome just 10x10 ;-)
<mako> lets finish up the agenda
<ivoks> Seveas: motku
<ivoks> Seveas: masters of the kde universe
<mako> any other local team items?
<mako> going once
<squinn> the fact that a florida team would never wrok
<squinn> work
<ogra> ivoks, nah, dont separate :)
<ivoks> ogra: :)
<sabdfl> we have one thing i want to raise with the CC
<mako> squinn: ah, anything can work :)
<Nafallo> \sh: ms won't be wiped out that easy I'm afraid ;-)
<squinn> not when you're the only ubuntu-ing floridian
<mako> alright, any other business: mark you're up
<sabdfl> the TB have asked for an extra person, so i'm going to make a nomination shortly
<Kamion> mako: Simone Gotti showed up
<\sh> Nafallo, I rounded the numbers ;)
<mako> oh, excellent
<squinn> oh alright
<ivoks> mako: i have one question...
<sabdfl> the process is that the developer team will have a vote to confirm that
<Kamion> mako: (motaboy)
<sabdfl> we need to figure out a voting mechanism
<dholbach> mako, Kamion: he just said, he became member and confused it
<sabdfl> we also need to decide if we should distinguish between universe and main maintainers
<motaboy> Kamion: sorry :D
<Kamion> dholbach: ah, ok, thanks
<mako> sabdfl: distinguish in which way?
<Seveas> sabdfl, do you mean voting between candidates or voting for approval..?
<Kamion> dholbach: he's still on the "needs to show up" list though *puzzled*
<Seveas> Kamion, mako should update that list :)
<sabdfl> mako: one suggestion was that confirmations of TB appointments should require a vote of unrestricted uploaders only
<dholbach> Kamion: yeah... that's why i called him in the first place
<sabdfl> another was that all uploaders should vote
<sabdfl> TB felt in favour of the latter
<sabdfl> i'm ambivalent, but it's the CC that should decide
<Seveas> sabdfl, what about a weighted voting?
<tseng> i vote for all uploaders
<mako> personally, i prefer the latter as well and am willing to give weight to weight to what the TB decides in this matter
<tseng> unrestricted is a smaller group, and is largely in canonical employment
* mako nods to tseng 
<dholbach> Seveas: oh no.. we'll end up with complicated voting charts as in debian ;-)
<tseng> including the motu allows more community control
<tseng> or, influence
<sabdfl> Seveas: to answer your previous question, the procedure to get someone on the CC or TB is that I make a nomination, and the maintainers / members (for TB/CC) vote yes or no, a majority confirms the appointment
<mako> elmo: do you have strong feelings?
<Seveas> sabdfl, thnx
<elmo> mako: call me an elitist cabal-continuing black-helicopter-owning fascist, but I sort-of-prefer main only
<tseng> elmo: reasoning? its confirming appointments, not making them
<mako> Kamion: ?
<elmo> I think that the TB's a very important, powerful body, and it's very important that the people on there, really are the most technically competent
<Kamion> hmm, now I have to think
<elmo> not necessarily the most popular
<sabdfl> elmo: thanks, you saved the the trouble, i can never type black-helicopter-owning fascist
<sabdfl> much easier to copy and paste
<ogra> heh
<Kamion> it *is* worth noting that people don't get on the ballot unless sabdfl nominates them in the first place
<Seveas> elmo, so why not include the MOTU leaders, or don't they have such a distinction there?
<elmo> Seveas: who are the MOTU leaders exactly?
<tseng> Seveas: they are included already
<ogra> Seveas, dholbach and me already are main uploaders.... and i guess \sh will be soon too as well as Riddell 
<elmo> you mean MOTMOTU or something else?
<tseng> Seveas: by upload-to-main privelage
<Seveas> ah ok
<sabdfl> Kamion: that argues in favour of as strong a community weighting on the vote as possible, imo
<Kamion> I'd be interested to know what sabdfl's criteria for nomination are
<\sh> ogra, i don't have the intention right now
<sabdfl> Kamion: they need to feel comfortable in a black helicopter
<Kamion> :-)
<ogra> \sh, but you would be a candidate of mine :)
<jsgotangco> hah
<\sh> ogra, lets talk about it when the time comes :)
<ogra> sabdfl, you didnt test this with me :/
<elmo> don't get me wrong, this is just what I think, I'm not utterly opposed to the alternative
<sabdfl> ogra: you're not on the TB ;-)
<\sh> first let me break xorg once...then we can talk about main ;)
<ogra> :)
<tseng> just to be clear there are only 2 non-canonical employees with main unrestricted upload
<ivoks> haha
<elmo> tseng: not sure that's true
<sabdfl> tseng: that nmber will grow over time
<ogra> \sh, ask me if you ned help ;)
<sabdfl> we're putting a policy in place that we have to live with for a long long time
<tseng> elmo: youd probably know have the best count.
<Seveas> tseng, that is not neccessarily a bad thing, is it?
<mako> Seveas: i'd like to see it change
<Kamion> since the nomination is by one person and fairly controlled, I'm very slightly inclined towards all uploaders
<sabdfl> a major concern for me is apathy, more than a bad vote
<Kamion> if the former ever changes we have to revisit the latter too
<mako> sabdfl: that should concern everyone *except* you ;-)
<Nafallo> Kamion++
<Seveas> +1 on Kamion 
<elmo> tseng: off hand, I'd say it's more like 7
<elmo> (based on a quick look at the maintainer keyring, vs. an in-my-head recollection of who canonical employs)
<elmo> 7/30
<sabdfl> there's no doubt that we have longer to get to know someone before they become an unrestricted uploader
<Seveas> mako, I guess it will change over time, the MOTU is a lot youger than the Ubuntu project :)
<sabdfl> and the TB really does set the technical architecture and strategy for the distro
<tseng> elmo: oh the difference is probably people i assumed were
<mako> ok.. so i'm trying to see where we stand
<sabdfl> i'm in favour of the widest possible community participation, as long as we don't risk casting the net so wide we get people who are voters who don't actually know or care about the issues
<Seveas> let's vote :)
<mako> i'm moderatately in favor of all maintainers, sabdfl is ambivalent, elmo is moderately opposed and Kamion is slightly in favor
<Seveas> sabdfl, I think all uploaders care enough about it, they care enough to upload packages too
<sabdfl> Seveas: main thing is to consider how people's interests change over time
<dholbach> some of them don't upload packages - at least not that often
<Kamion> Seveas: mm, a lot of people only care about their little set of packages
<Kamion> at any rate that's the case in Debian and it's perfectly natural
<sabdfl> though both membership and maintainership do need renewal, so we are not likely to have people who have been out of touch for three years on the ballot list
<Seveas> ok, so let the major uploaders participate in the vote...
<mako> elmo: how opposed are you?
<\sh> Kamion, but this is different with motu at all
<Kamion> \sh: I don't expect it to be
<sabdfl> i think we'll be ok with a vote of all uploaders, so i'd like to propose that to the CC as a resolution, and ask for a +1 or -1 indication, i'll have a casting vote if needed
<ogra> Kamion, vurrently it is
<elmo> mako: not enough to even sulk, if I'm out-voted
<ogra> currently even
<Kamion> \sh: it's completely natural for people to care most about the things they got involved to do
<mako> ok..
<sabdfl> in alphabetical order: elmo, mako, kamion, sabdfl
<sabdfl> ;-)
* Kamion scratches his head
<\sh> Kamion, if you prepare software, u have to care about your package, right, but this is something different from doing the  motu stuff...even to touch gtkmm...but I did, and a lot of other stuff will come as well
<mako> hey, i want to to first in alphabetical order
<sabdfl> 0 to abstain
<elmo> -1
<Kamion> \sh: trust me, not everyone will get deeply involved
<mako> +1
<Kamion> +1
<mako> alright.. 
<sabdfl> +1
<mako> sabdfl: VOTE CHANGER
<\sh> Kamion, this is an individual process...yes, but this is the reason why I'm here and a lot of others
<mako> any other business?
<mako> F
<Seveas> yes
<sabdfl> with kamion's clause: we revisit this if the nomination process changes
<Seveas> I have a request for everyone: I am trying to collect meeting statistics, can everyone please visit www.ubuntulinux.nl/time and submit his data the, kthxbye :)
<mako> sabdfl: sure, abolutely
<Kamion> \sh: I completely understand and agree that *some* people will get more involved beyond their initial reason for joining
<sabdfl> mako: hey, i said i was ambivalent, but also said that the nomination process should be balanced by wider community participation...
<ogra> Seveas, you mean a Calendar, like dholbach has set up ?
<mako> :)
<sabdfl> ok
<dholbach> \sh: it'll change over time and some MOTUs already don't show up anymore and don't submit packages - not that i'm mad at them, but it shows, that things change
<mako> ANOTHER OTHER BUSINESS
<Seveas> ogra, i don't know about dholbachs initiative
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects is smoking!
<ivoks> mako: PGP issue :)
<mako> ivoks: talk to me after
<sabdfl> all clear from me
<Seveas> ogra, url?
<mako> business for the entire council
<tseng> Seveas: he has no initiative, he is a slacker.
<ogra> Seveas, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<mako> speak now or wait for two weeks
<\sh> dholbach, well...ask them why..and if they're not interessted anymore...i think membership is valid for only 1 year, right?
<mako> going once..
<Seveas> i spoke
<mako> going twice..
<Seveas> a few listened :)
<mako> gone
<Seveas> and jsgotangco spoke
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects get involved!
<jsgotangco> hehe
<sabdfl> done - thanks all
<mako> alright, next meeting is scheduled 
<mako> two weeks from today at UTC 22
<\sh> thx everybody
<Seveas> ogra, no notjing like that
<mako> we'll flip flop between those two times
<mako> to maximize the number of people who can show up
<ivoks> DanielN_: late :)
<Mez> UTC 22 ?
<Seveas> mako, can it be 1 hr earlier?
<dholbach> have a nice day everybody
<Mez> thats 11pm!
<Mez> grr
<Mez> :(
<DanielN_> ivoks:  i'm at work
<jsgotangco> bye
<ogra> Seveas, ah, i see
<mako> Mez: this time is impossible for people on the US west coast
<mako> Mez: we're trying to maximize the number of people who show up, not just cater to one group
<mako> Mez: i got up at 7am today to prepare for this one :)
<Mez> mako :D I know :D
<mako> thanks everyone
<Mez> poor mako :D
<JRe> ;)
<mako> nah, that's what coffee is for
<ogra> Seveas, hey, what do you use for the grphs
<squinn> mako, join the club
<ogra> graphs ?
<mako> see you all in two weeks
<squinn> goin to bed at about 3AM and gettin up at 7's a trip
<Seveas> ogra, php-gd
<ogra> Seveas, is this a GD derivative ? 
<squinn> yep, see you in two week
<squinn> s
<ogra> ah
<shawarma> Mez: 22:00 is 10pm, not 11.
<Seveas> in UK it's 11 :)
<Seveas> for mr it's midnight :S
<Seveas> me*
<JRe> Seveas: same for me in italy!
<Mez> shawarma, yeah, but in the UK - 22 UTC == 11PM BST
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-01
<ubuntu_demon> hi
* terrex dice: ahora s que s, me ausento. taluego
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-02
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Logs - http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 28 June 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 30 June 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 5 July 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel || UTC time --> `date --utc`
<terrex> Is there any wikipage or anywhere see the agenda of the month for all teams?
<terrex> It's really nice to make an integration with evolution and make a "shared agenda" server, dont you think?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 28 June 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 30 June 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 5 July 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel || UTC
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-03
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:pitti] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 28 June 17:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 30 June 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 5 July 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel || UTC
<pitti> @all: Today's TB meeting needs to start earlier, at 1700 UTC
<jbailey> Err, that's awfully short notice for a change, isn't it?
* jbailey can't make that time.
<jbailey> Oh good, agenda doesn't concern me really anyway.
<seb128> hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey :)
<\sh> huhu daniel :)
<ogra> hoho dholbach 
<ivoks> howdy
<ogra> dholbach, i added a mention of revu to the expanding universe goal, but didnt change the status
<mdz> 2 minutes
<ogra> dholbach, to make th eprogress visible
* pitti waves to everybody and gets a seat
* ogra puts a pot coffee on the table 
<dholbach> ogra: excellent
<mdz> good morning, everyone
<mdz> waiting for sabdfl and Keybuk
* ogra quickly uploads a fixed ffmpeg before the meeting
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: u made it? ,-)
<Keybuk> (I'm almost entirely not present, but will respond if my name goes blue ;p)
<ogra> \sh, with a lot of help from mvo (you should call him the AssemblerKing now)
<\sh> ogra: good to know *eg*
<mdz> ok, that's quorum at least :-)
<dholbach> ogra: mvo rocks
<ogra> yeh
<mdz> we seem to have one MaintainerCandidate to process
<ogra> +a
<mdz> Ankur Kotwal?
<ogra> DanielN ?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: 
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> a
<ogra> ah
<\sh> Ankur is Unfrgiven
<mdz> he's applying for MOTU
<\sh> and DanielN_atw is not online
<ogra> yep... i always muddle Ankur and Ante :)
<sabdfl> hi all
<ivoks> i'm Ante :)
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<dholbach> hi mark
<\sh> for Unfrgiven I can give a ++ for MOTU...he did a lot for cxx and stuff 
<ogra> ivoks, i know.... but ivoks is more familiar ;)
<ogra> absolutely
<ogra> \sh++
<sabdfl> mdz: you under way?
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<mdz> sabdfl: currently Unfrgiven (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnkurKotwal) is being considered for MOTU maintainership
<\sh> and for DanielN_atw , he made some progress in those 2 weeks after the last meeting and I think he would be a good candidate. Ogra, what do u think?
<mdz> ogra and \sh both support his admission
<dholbach> i worked with him on a package, but that's some weeks ago, he did it well
<ivoks> ++ by me too 
<dholbach> i read his name a cuople of times on the c++ library list
<ogra> sabdfl, we also met hi at udu, he made good progress with packaging since then
<ogra> him even
<dholbach> that's true, ogra
<sabdfl> ok, fine by me if ogra and \sh have worked with him and think he's up to it
<ogra> absolutely :)
<mdz> likewise
<Keybuk> same for me
<dholbach> excellent :)
<ogra> yay :)
<ivoks> great
<\sh> heissa :)
<dholbach> watch the MOTU team grow :)
<sabdfl> welcome aboard Unfrgiven!
<mdz> Unfrgiven: congratulations and welcome
<\sh> he's going mad when he's hearing that :)
<ogra> so welcome Unfrgiven (in sleeping absence )
<mdz> next up, Riddell on choosing an office suite for Kubuntu
<sabdfl> Riddell: is there a wiki page that outlines the options and arguments?
<Riddell> sabdfl: no there isn't
<sabdfl> this sort of thing is best done in spec format, as a proposal
<Riddell> trouble is I don't yet have an answer to propose :)
<Riddell> koffice is faster and smaller and integrated
<sabdfl> because whichever way it goes, in future people will want to know what was factored into the decision
<mdz> the guiding principle should be to do whatever the KDE community will love
<pitti> Riddell: what about stability?
<sabdfl> mdz: agreed
<\sh> Riddell: what about the compatiblity to ms office?
<ogra> mdz, whyt about MS compatibility ?
<Riddell> openoffice is probably less buggy and more compatible with MS Officce
<pitti> Riddell: OO.o is a pain both stability- and performance-wise, is KOffice any better?
<\sh> ogra: *g*
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> in addition, since openoffice is in main, we should also make sure that k-oo.o love is around and available, even if it isn't the default
<Riddell> pitti: it's a lot better performance wise, not so stability wise
<mdz> ogra: see above; if MS compatibility is of great importance to the KDE community, they will factor that into their opinions
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: k-oo.o love is utterly painful for amd64.
<sabdfl> Riddell: we had a similar debate around abiword + gnumeric vs oo.o
<\sh> mdz: i don't think it has to do with KDE alone...it's a matter of integration of * Linux into the office structure of companies
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: is that true for the goo.o too.o?
<Riddell> sabdfl: where can I find out about the discussions of that?
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: less so, but yes.
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: that is, more packages => more pain.
<mdz> \sh: to a certain extent, such companies will make their own decisions about which software to use
<ogra> mdz, true.... but still non KDE people will switch too :)
<sabdfl> Riddell: poorly documented i'm afraid, we mostly had it on irc in the SSDS days
<mdz> the default should be the "right thing" for a KDE-oriented distribution
<\sh> mdz: and most of the companies using OOo as a choice 
<mdz> what do other KDE distributions do?
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: I'm throwing in a data point, I'm not trying to veto (which I wouldn't be able to) k-oo.o.
<\sh> they put both
<Riddell> mdz: the only distribution to ship with koffice is mepislight
<ivoks> oo.o seems more mature atm, but koffice is doing great improvment, imho
<Riddell> ship as default that is
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: your say counts for a lot around here, so don't be shy
<Riddell> one agrument is that if nobody uses koffice then it will never improve
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: the pain will be significantly less with ooo2 once we get it usable in a 64 bit form.
<sabdfl> Riddell: similarly for Gnome office and KOffice, though
<mdz> the 32-bit stuff for oo.o2-kde will be painful, yes,, but we'll need to do it regardless of which office suite is default in kubuntu
<\sh> Riddell: what about shipping with koffice and OO?
<Riddell> \sh: no space for that
<sabdfl> and with java and sun, there's a feeling that it would be good to have strong ground-up-free office suits
<mdz> how big is koffice?
<ogra> \sh, no redundancys !
<Riddell> although we will probably ship with kexi (database) and krita (drawing)
<Mithrandir> mdz: but we won't have to package half of kde in ia32-libs-kde if we don't use ooo for kubuntu.
<sabdfl> mdz: is oo.o2 64-bit K difficult because of the C++ nature of K?
<Riddell> mdz: source is 20MB
<mdz> sabdfl: it's difficult because KDE has a huge dependency chain which would need to be repackaged a la ia32-libs
<ivoks> 20?
* \sh likes the idea to ship koffice with a real kde distro ;)
<mdz> Mithrandir: even if kubuntu uses koffice by default, we should have oo.o2-kde available on all supported architectures
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: ooo2 64 bit is difficult because the programmers writing staroffice thought that having assembly in a office suite made sense.
<Mithrandir> mdz: do I get an extra bottle of whisky a month to endure the pain? ;-)
<\sh> Mithrandir: no whisky while you're working ;-)
<Riddell> koffice .debs are 21MB
<Mithrandir> \sh: you haven't done ia32-libs, I see. :-)
<uniq> the (few) comments on koffice vs. oo.o on kubuntu-users@list are all more or less pro oo.o.
<pitti> \sh: you need the alcohol to double the 32 bit
<\sh> Mithrandir: nope...but other nasty stuff;)
<mdz> Riddell: what is your gut feeling?
<\sh> pitti: yeah...this I know perfectly ;)
<Mithrandir> anyhow, ooo is k-able on amd64 just fine, it's just painful.
<dholbach> stabitily and exchangebility maybe should be the keypoint, imho - since people judge a distribution by what they use and what (and probably what not) works for them  --- i say that without being a fan of oo.o and its not-integrated-ness, and i agree with riddell on getting users for improving, new products
<Riddell> mdz: I've been trying to use koffice as much as possible this last week since 1.4 release.  for lugradio live kpresenter couldn't open it's own slides and I had to re-do my whole talk.  that put me towards keeping openoffice
<pitti> Riddell: is "not so stable" == "it crashes every half an hour"? or is it better?
<\sh> Riddell: do u think the userbase will increase for koffice, if kubuntu is shipping it as default?
<pitti> Riddell: I'd judge stability over performance
<Riddell> pitti: "it crashes every half an hour" isn't too far off I suspect
<pitti> Riddell: then you will rather scare away people with it, I'm afraid
<Riddell> \sh: yes I do
<\sh> Riddell: so, ship it...we have OO in anyway available
<mdz> Riddell: so if you're leaning toward openoffice, and kubuntu-users seems to be leaning the same way, is there someone who can speak for koffice?
<pitti> Riddell: ... not that OO.o wouldn't be scary on any but the latest and greatest number crunching hardware
<Riddell> \sh seems to speak for koffice 
<Riddell> amu is a big koffice fan
<ogra> \sh, whats the use of an ofiice suit that crashes every 1/2h, have fun with the bugreports you cant solve in a stable distro ?
<Mithrandir> I was a fan of koffice five years ago, but it sounds like it might not have moved too much since then?
<\sh> ogra: well, thinking of ms word which is crashing for me every single time I try to open a big document I don't have anything against a crashing presenter
<dholbach> it's the same for gnome: abiword and gnumeric, but without a presenting software, you can't hand gnome-office to the average user yet, that's disappointing, but that seems to be life atm :-/
<ivoks> we can't ship crashing app.
<pitti> \sh: that isn't the thing we should compare software to
<\sh> lets say it like this: if kubuntu is shipping as default with koffice, we can also try to stablelize it
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: if we were to put a google-size bounty on proper oo.o2 64-bit support, is there anyone you can think of in the upstream crowd who could take it on?
<ogra> \sh, we'll talk about it after you lost your first ubuntu slides 1/2h before the telk ;)
<sabdfl> upstream being oo.o community
<ogra> talk
<pitti> dholbach: gnumeric is a great piece of software, it jsut works and is fast (as opposed to OO.o spread, which is buggy and slow as hell)
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: I don't know upstream, so no, but I could look around.
<\sh> pitti: we have OO in the repos...so the user is able to install OO  in an way
<pitti> dholbach: it's abiword that sucks, though
<dholbach> pitti: anyway, gnome-office just isnt ready yet :-/
<pitti> \sh: right, but only one will be shipped on the CD
<pitti> dholbach: agreed
<ogra> pitti, its the missing presentation program that sucks imho
<pitti> \sh: the point is, many users can't download big debs, they depend on a CD
<uniq> \sh: koffice is smaller to download.
<ivoks> then with koffice, you could put more apps on CD?
<ivoks> that would be + for koffice
<seb128> pitti: what's wrong about abiword?
<mdz> Riddell: I think the best thing to do is to collect points in favor of each suite and document them on a wiki page
<mdz> Riddell: once that's done, the answer could well be obvious
<\sh> well, from my point of view, I would like to see KDE applications on a kde distro and vice versa.
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: Pavel Janik is doing some work on it already. pavel@janik.cz
<pitti> seb128: it lacks too much important features, and the MS compatibility is much worse than OO.O's
<Riddell> mdz: sounds like a plan
<seb128> pitti: bah, not the place to argue about that :)
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: is he upstream? distro? good credentials?
<pitti> seb128: however, I only use gnumeric, and I never ever use a WYSIWYG word processor, so don't count on my opinion about abiword too much
<seb128> pitti: happy about gnumeric? :)
<pitti> seb128: gnumeric rocks
<seb128> yeah ;)
<sabdfl> ok, i think this needs to be specced
<sabdfl> Riddell: could you put a spec together?
<sabdfl> Oo.O2 vs KOffice - the default in Kubuntu
<Riddell> sabdfl: I'm not sure what that would be.  isn't a spec more "we will do this" rather than "which should we do"?
<mdz> right, the comparison chart we discussed would form the meat of a spec
<sabdfl> Riddell: it starts with "these are the options"
<mdz> just add some background to it
<pitti> Riddell: after that discussion, do you think KOffice is still an option to consider?
<sabdfl> then when there's a decision, you put that at the top
<sabdfl> so afterwards it reads:
<sabdfl>  "this spec documents our decision to run with OO.o2 for Kubuntu Breezy"
<sabdfl>  "rationale"
<sabdfl>  blah blah blah
<pitti> Riddell: (I don't want to imply a "no" in any way)
<sabdfl> </subliminal advertising>
<mdz> Riddell: invite the kubuntu community to add their own thoughts to the list, within guidelines (keep it objective)
<sabdfl> yes, the doc is open so people with an interest in either course of action can add pro's and con's
<Keybuk> (
<mdz> if it's still unclear at that point, we'll discuss it again with this additional context
<Keybuk> sorry, desktop crapped out and decided that it didn't want to be on there
<sabdfl> then it's easier to bring it to the TB and take an up or down vote amongst the kubuntu leaders and tb
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: I think he's upstream, yes.  His blog has 271 entries on ooo and he's been doing amd64 porting for a bit of fair time.  I don't know him personally so I can't comment on his saneness, but it seems to be ok.
<sabdfl> cool
<Riddell> pitti: I think it's an option, see jdub's speach on how gnome office can overtake openoffice.  same for koffice
<sabdfl> Riddell: there are definitely arguments in favour of lightweight native tools
<pitti> Riddell: ok, great. well, spec and argument collection sounds really sane then IMHO?
<sabdfl> but we do have to make a decision on the default
<sabdfl> even if both end up in main, as we did with gnome office
<sabdfl> anything more on Kubuntu Office?
<Riddell> I'll write the spec then
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: he's a Novell employee, fwiw.
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: could be interesting :-)
<mdz> ok, next up, pitti on language packs
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: well, I guess they're interested in a 64 bit OOo this year too..
<sabdfl> Riddell: you don't have to write it any further than needed to justify your own viewpoint, get someone else to argue the other side :-)
<pitti> I wrote about the problem yesterday
<pitti> so far I still think that the solution proposed in the udu spec (split up packs into -main/-gnome/-kde) is the way to go
<pitti> however, I'd like to collect more opinions about that
<pitti> the actual source of problem is that Kubuntu is not a proper derivative
<seb128> 3) from the mail seems to be best option imho
<pitti> with its own archive and so on
<sabdfl> "    Besides language-support-lang, Kubuntu additionally installs kde-i18n-lang.  "
<sabdfl> pitti: how do you propose to do that?
<pitti> sabdfl: that is to avoid splitting the -support packages, too
<pitti> sabdfl: it's already done
<sabdfl> if someone wants to add a new language to the system, how does the system know to install the -kde or the -gnome pack?
<pitti> sabdfl: the Kubuntu installer just does it and our language selector application can do it, too
<sabdfl> pitti: how does it know if the user has, for example, installed Kubuntu and added abiword?
<ivoks> khm...
<pitti> sabdfl: the crude solution would be that langpack-o-matic just checks whether gnome and/or kde is installed
<sabdfl> pitti: see above - "gnome" and "kde" become fuzzy concepts over time
<sabdfl> it's easy at install time
<sabdfl> hard once the sysadmin starts adding and removing packages
<pitti> sabdfl: the fine-grained one is to check which packages are installed, so that the relevant pack could be installed if needed
<pitti> sabdfl: so if language selector sees "ah, abiword is installed", it would pull in the gnome one
<pitti> sabdfl: it's not an optimal solution, I'M aware of that
<pitti> sabdfl: it also makes elmo cry because it will add 400 packages
<pitti> sabdfl: but I don't know a better solution
<Mithrandir> this sounds like a good use case for Enhances: support, btw.
<pitti> if anybody does have a better solution, speak up :-)
<Mithrandir> pitti: implement support for Enhances in dpkg and apt. :-)
<pitti> Mithrandir: how does that help to not split langpacks?
<mdz> pitti: the root problem is what?  a combined language pack is too large?
<pitti> mdz: yes, we can't fit them all onto the CDs
<mdz> we already can't fit them all onto the CD
<mdz> how many would we lose?
<pitti> mdz: KDE translations alone are bigger than main+gnome right now
<mdz> so we would lose more than half?
<Mithrandir> pitti: it helps the packaging system note that "oh, you have this installed, then you probably want this too".
<pitti> mdz: we ship all on most CDs
<pitti> Mithrandir: ugh, that would be pretty intrusive; I think mvo and I had a better solution for the langpack selector at least
<mdz> pitti: we ship all on 2 out of 6 CDs ;-)
<pitti> oh?
<pitti> hm
<pitti> yes, we would loose more than half of the translations
<dholbach> "order your ubuntu cd-case today."
<mdz> but one of those two is the i386 install CD, which accounts for a disproportionate number of uses
<\sh> is a dvd not cheaper then?
<Mithrandir> dholbach: s/case/backpack/. :-)
<pitti> well, DVDs would solve the problem at instant :-)
<mdz> \sh: DVDs are more expensive than CDs
<mdz> and less portable
<ivoks> is it possible to do CDs by area? east europe, midle east, etc?
<sabdfl> \sh: we still have to focus on 650MB CD's, unfortunately
<pitti> or make Kubuntu a proper derivative with its own archive
<ogra> \sh, not everybody has a DVD reader
<mdz> ivoks: it is possible to create them, but it is impractical to test them
<mdz> ivoks: we already must test 8 images for each release candidate
<pitti> mdz: if langpack-o-matic could create different langpacks for Kubuntu than for Ubuntu, that would rock, but with the current structure it can't
<\sh> ogra: yes :) i forgot the *grmpf* ;)
<mdz> er, 9
<ivoks> oh, then this would be too much
<ivoks> didn't think of that :)
<mdz> pitti: what's the least intrusive way to split the langpacks?
<pitti> one alternative would be to split it to l-p-ubuntu and l-p-kubuntu
<pitti> and copy the common stuff into both
<pitti> but that's ugly IMHO
<sabdfl> pitti: i'm happy with your first proposal
<mdz> unified language packs, while inefficient in terms of space, are awfully attractive due to their simplicity
<sabdfl> it just means the language selector needs to be smart
<pitti> mdz: right
<pitti> sabdfl: so we don't support KDE translations in Rosetta?
<sabdfl> mdz: you mean install all the gnome translations on a fresh kubuntu box?
<mdz> sabdfl: I mean the approach we're already using
<pitti> sabdfl: would be the easiest solution, but redundant and non-symmetrical
<sabdfl> pitti: what's non-symmetrical about -base, -gnome and -kde?
<pitti> mdz: what do you mean by "way to split"?
<pitti> sabdfl: oh, I thought you meant (1) in my mail
<mdz> pitti: I can't find your email; what was the subject?
<pitti> sabdfl: (1) in mail was the status quo
<mdz> ah, found it
<sabdfl> no, LanguagePackRoadmap
<pitti> "27.06.05 18:43 Martin Pitt       Preparing tomorrow's language pack TB topic"
<pitti> sabdfl: ah, ok, so that would be the split
<sabdfl> it has its warts, but i can't see a better one
<mdz> pitti: is there any significant advantage of (3) over (1) for breezy?
<Riddell> mdz: it means kubuntu has translations on CD
<mdz> Riddell: gnome translations, you mean?
<pitti> mdz: Rosetta support mainly
<pitti> mdz: and Kubuntu does not need to ship gnome translations and instead has room for kde ones
<Riddell> mdz: 3 means we have translations, 1 means we don't have KDE translations
<pitti> well, there is no golden solution anyway, we just have to choose the pain
<mdz> pitti: why does (1) make rosetta support impossible?
<Riddell> mdz: nowhere for rosetta to output to
<pitti> mdz: not impossible, but we had to regenerate kde-i18n-foo, which consists of more than translations
<mdz> oh, I see, it uses kde-i18n-foo rather than language-pack-kde
<pitti> mdz: it would be possible, I guess, with some hacking
<mdz> (3) seems the clear winner, to me
<pitti> would it be possible to give Kubuntu it's own archive?
<mdz> not for breezy
<pitti> or would that make sense?
<pitti> no, not for breezy, but in the long run
<pitti> I think we could live with option (1) for breezy
<pitti> if we have a solution in sight for breezy+n
<mdz> we should take advantage of rosetta for kubuntu
* Riddell doesn't like (1) at all
<pitti> understandable
<pitti> mdz: I think the biggest con of (3) is the hoary->breezy upgrade
<mdz> I don't see that as a major issue
<mdz> when the language pack is upgraded, we'll drop an update-notifier hook to prompt the user to reconfirm their language settings
<pitti> well, upgrade notes, just as for Hoary (when users lost all their translations as well)
<pitti> that sounds good
<mdz> any further unresolved issues regarding language packs?
<pitti> Ineed to convince elmo to accept 400 new packages :-)
<pitti> anybody has serious issues with (3)?
<mdz> elmo: would you like to weigh in on this?
<ogra> pitti, give them to doko, then elmo wont even recognize ;)
<pitti> ok, thanks guys for your input
<mdz> ok, you can follow up with elmo later if he takes issue with it
<pitti> ok, I'll do
<mdz> next up, REVU with no person associated with it
<mdz> ogra?
<sabdfl> hmm... sec
* \sh is the spokesman :)
<pitti> it's always better to hear more than just the own opinion when trashing he archive :-)
<\sh> and ogra :) and dholbach
<sabdfl> linspire just did their German edition release
<ogra> mdz, you could put MOTU aside :)
<sabdfl> they wait till they have a certain coverage of translations, then release a dedicated iso
<sabdfl> has the advantage that the installer can skip the language question
<sabdfl> and just install the language it is dedicated to
<mdz> ogra: /me points to the "INCLUDE YOUR NAME" comment in the wiki
<sabdfl> i wondered if there is any interest in us making similar releases?
* \sh is the faulty one :)
<mdz> sabdfl: we've discussed it; the primary issue is testing
<ogra> mdz, i didnt put it there ... \sh !
<ogra> :)
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: but then, you get to keep half a gazillion ISOs on cdimage.
<mdz> we need to at least sanity check every ISO release
<sabdfl> mdz: i don't know how this would fit into the broader picture, i would not want to amp up the number of iso's on the main release
<\sh> mdz: put the blame on me pls :) i need to put it asap on the agenda :)
<mdz> if we do 10 localized ISOs, we need to test them all
<sabdfl> i suspect these would best be distributed from the loco websites
<mdz> 10 locales x 3 architectures = 30 more test cases
<sabdfl> we would only do releases that the loco teams want, they test, when they're happy, we push the button
<Mithrandir> mdz: have we considered doing some sort of automated testing similar to the lab joeyh has set up?
<pitti> right now we still have the ability to ship 10 translations on a CD, which make them somewhat more universal
<mdz> Mithrandir: where "considered" -> "gee, that would be nice"
<ogra> sabdfl, you mean additional localized ones ? or our default release ?
<ivoks> sabdfl: maybe is possible to have more locos in same image, this way more loco teams would work on testing
<pitti> sabdfl: that would make much sense with translations we don't put on CDs though, even if the images are sort of unofficial
<sabdfl> ivoks: that's a cool idea
<Mithrandir> mdz: not "gee, that would be nice, let us commit some resources to it"?
<sabdfl> if we could automate the process of generating the install iso, we could make this work
<mdz> sabdfl: I expect we would need the launchpad infrastructure in order to manage production of localized ISOs
<sabdfl> mdz: absolutely
<mdz> maintaining that many sets of seeds is impractical in our current setup
<sabdfl> i'll bounce the idea off kinnison in brazil
<mdz> ok, can we close the language pack discussion?
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks
<pitti> from my side yes
<pitti> thanks 
<ogra> revu !
<mdz> right, next is \sh on REVU
<ivoks> :>
<\sh> yes
<\sh> I don't know if anybody is informed about our new toy :) 
<ogra> \sh, give us an introduction :)
<mdz> \sh: perhaps a one-line explanation of what REVU does, for the benefit of those listening at home :-)
<sabdfl> url again?
<ogra> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<ivoks> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU?highlight=%28REVU%29
<\sh> to have a view inside, please refere to http://revu.ubuntu.linux-server.org/
<\sh> I created an account for you all, that u can have a look inside 
<\sh> username: sh@linux-server.org and pw: sabdfl  ;)
<ogra> sabdfl, its a tool for test autobuilding packages, collecting comments and seeing all data about a package that should get reviewed
<\sh> (will be deleted in anyway after this meeting :))
<\sh> some adds to ogra: 
<dholbach> and collecting advocates (3 for MOTU NEW packages)
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> right now we're reviewing newpackages for MOTU via wiki..which is not bad, but it's sometimes confusing
<ogra> so it perfectly mirrors our review process
<ogra> and its written in python :)
<\sh> so siretart had an idea of doing it via a webinterface, with database and build automation
<\sh> siretart and a friend of him wrote this nice little peace of software, and now we're trying to establish it to the motu world :)
<sabdfl> ROCKS!
<\sh> right now, uploading packages (debuild -S -sa) and putting comments etc. is working. the test build is included the next days
<dholbach> automatic linda and lintian are additional features
<ogra> but we feel it would belong into the DC, but we need a sbuild capable environment, so a vserver might not work
<\sh> we have only limited resources on our servers, siretart has only a vserver without the possibility to create a sbuild env. and I have only my server with more then one service running on it
<ogra> (strike one but :) )
<\sh> dholbach: it's included already ;)
<\sh> we can inject all automatic tests we need through hooks
<dholbach> \sh: i didn't say they were missing :)
<\sh> ok, now we're looking for a permanent home :)
<mdz> \sh: are you interested in working on AutomatedTesting as well? ;-)
<mdz> right, the matter at hand
<sabdfl> are the linode servers not capable of sbuild?
<\sh> mdz: let me do my other todos first :) 
<Kamion> surely you can chroot from a vserver ...
* \sh needs a cloning facility ;)
<mdz> assuming you get root in the vserver
<ogra> mdz, \sh  first needs to write a KDE version of gnome-power )
<\sh> Kamion: sbuild also? would u provide us with a solution? what we found out, that we need admin capabilities
<\sh> and then update-manager and SER and my normal work, and then life 
<sabdfl> mdz: i think linode gives you root
<sabdfl> it's either Xen or UML based
<ogra> \sh, forget about your normal work, who nees TV anyway :)
<Kamion> \sh: if you don't have root, then indeed that would be a problem; if you do, then it's relatively straightforward assuming sufficient disk space
<mdz> sbuild just requires root
<\sh> ogra: u pay my rent? ,-)
<ogra> heh, depends *g*
<\sh> and my wife ;-) 
<\sh> ex at least ;)
<ogra> NO !
<\sh> more expensive ;)
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> guys... :)
<ogra> ok, offtopic here
<mdz> \sh: so is the root issue that you need help setting up sbuild?
<ogra> mdz, nope, we'd like a machine in the DC
<sabdfl> ogra: why?
<\sh> mdz: it's that and resources...I can handle only a bit more...but then my server will break 
<ogra> sbuild in the test env is already running
<sabdfl> how about a linode?
<ogra> sabdfl, can we ge sbuild running there ?
<ogra> get even
<sabdfl> ogra: yes, i believe so, it's a root environment
<sabdfl> UML i think
<ogra> ah, great, then this would suffice
<elmo> uh
<ogra> elmo, objections ?
<sabdfl> elmo: we need to get a purchase order for a bunch of linode's in
<elmo> this is a buildd that only accepts uploads signed by universe maintainers right?
<ogra> elmo, yes
<sabdfl> then we need a very lightweight process to get those fired up
<\sh> elmo: yes
<dholbach> elmo: and MOTU hopefuls
<ogra> elmo, with additional acess control before
<elmo> if so - I'm 95% completed work on something that makes it a moot point
<elmo> oh, ok, not for MOTU hopefuls
<mdz> this is essentially entirely untrusted stuff
<mdz> it's probably not even signed at the moment
<elmo> ok, nm then
<sabdfl> elmo: we will need the "build a package for anybody" stuff in due course, but i think linode is the answer for this one
<mdz> and certainly not by a key we can authenticate
<\sh> there is no package coming from this system
<elmo> sabdfl: want me to sort that out?
<sabdfl> elmo: yes please
<\sh> all packages are reviewed only and uploaded by MOTUs with upload right to universe
<mdz> sabdfl: as long as it doesn't steal cycles from backports ;-)
<dholbach> \sh: NO, they are uploaded by MOTU hopefuls as well
<ogra> dholbach, he means in the end
<dholbach> ogra: well uploads to the archive were already handled before :)
<ogra> dholbach, yeps
<ogra> :)
<mdz> ok, so the resolution is to set up a linode system to run these builds
<mdz> any further unresolved issues?
<sabdfl> \sh: we will pay for the linode system, she's yours to play with
<mdz> \sh: will this meet your needs?
<\sh> sabdfl: we are honoured :) and I have to say thx for siretart in absence as well :)
<sabdfl> elmo: let's talk about a streamlined linode-for-community deal tomorrow?
<\sh> mdz: of course
<elmo> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> elmo: are you in london tomorrow?
<elmo> sabdfl: all week
<sabdfl> cool
<mdz> I am in london in ~48 hours
<sabdfl> next up?
<sabdfl> mdz: rock :-)
<ogra> sabdfl, done :)
<mdz> that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> any other business?
<sabdfl> \sh: REVU looks very cool, well done
<\sh> sabdfl: I will report it to siretart, I think he will be very proud to hear that :) 
<ogra> sabdfl, its siretarts baby, \sh has set up the backend
<mdz> ok, looks like it's safe to adjourn
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<\sh> thx mdz
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<pitti> thanks folks
<dholbach> thanks mdz
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Thu 30 June 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 5 July 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda ||  Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-26
* jenda prods the community council
<jjesse> @agenda Detroit
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 27 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<simira> what, did CC go on summer holidays or something?
<jenda> simira: yup :) see them in september :)
<simira> jenda: seriously?
<jenda> simira: no, not seriously.
<jenda> But it's been a month since the last meeting :(
<simira> yes, too lon
<simira> long*
<Kamion> oh give us a break, it's only one skipped meeting
<jsgotangco> heh
<Riddell> Kamion: I think the current complaint is that there's no next meeting on the schedule
<Kamion> I'm aware of that
<Kamion> I also note nobody has yet mailed community-council@ about it; apparently IRC is easier
<Kamion> I'll send mail now
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Nirvana> is the meeting in 5 mins? or an hour and 5 mins?
<jenda> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> Nirvana: an hour
<profoX`> @schedule Belgium
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hawkwind> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Jun 16:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Nirvana> @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<uniq> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<imbrandon> am i late ?
<jenda> you're three minutes early.
<Hawkwind> Topic just changed before you entered
<nixternal> lol
<jenda> or is my clock wrong, dammit...
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hawkwind> jenda: I have 3 minutes til too :P
<imbrandon> @now
<nixternal> i just did ntpdate... 3 minutes
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 26 2006, 20:58:13 - Current meeting: Kubuntu 
<[Nirvana] > I have 2
<jenda> OK
<jenda> :)
<Hawkwind> jenda: Let's hope both of our clocks aren't wrong
<jenda> let's hope the world isn't, Hawkwind 
<[Nirvana] > they are... it's 2 and a half mins to
<nixternal> hehe
<Hawkwind> jenda: Then again...Heh
<kwwii> hi
<[Nirvana] > TOMA... YOU ARE LATE
<ogra> hey kwwii 
<[Nirvana] > WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT YOURSELF?
<nixternal> hi kwwii
<kwwii> hi ogra
<kwwii> am I late too?
<imbrandon> moins kwwii and orga
<toma> [Nirvana] : i so apologise
<[Nirvana] > lol
<uniq> hi.
<toma> can you forgive me?
<[Nirvana] > kneel and beg for forgivenes
<[Nirvana] > forgiveness^
* toma kneels down
<[Nirvana] > hehe... I'm just messing with ya... meeting should start any second now
<[Nirvana] > @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 26 2006, 21:00:24 - Current meeting: Kubuntu 
* toma punches [Nirvana] : in ya dreams
<highvoltage> hmmm... i remember talking to a kwwii at uds, but can't remember who it was (it's terrible when you can only remember people by their nicks)
<imbrandon> lol
<seaLne> is there mopre than one of him?
<ogra> highvoltage, he's the guy with the beer in his hand :)
<highvoltage> ogra: you'll have to narrow it down :)
<ogra> highvoltage, especially the beer in a sixpack when you guys cam back with your eiffel tower collections ;)
<highvoltage> aaaah
<allee> seaLne: # of kwwiis depends on the level of alcohol in quite blood
<imbrandon> haha
* imbrandon prods Riddell 
<ogra> allee, nicotine also plays a role here :)
<ogra> (you'll find him in the smokers place ;) )
<allee> I know ;)
* imbrandon *tap* *tap* *tap* "this thing on ...."
<ogra> else the # of kwwii's is zero
<seaLne> does that depend on your meaning of #?
<imbrandon> how does Seveas put it , /dev/zero >> /dev/mind , does that applie to kwwii too ;)
<Riddell> hi all
<Riddell> sorry I'm late
<highvoltage> seaLne: hehe. i would say something about # and kde devels, but that would not be CoC appropriate ;)
<nixternal> hi Riddell
<Riddell> what did I miss?
* toma is toma
<imbrandon> nothign waiting on you Riddell
<allee> toma: one more try
<Riddell> so, agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
* toma is toma
<allee> nahh
<imbrandon> Riddell, did you skype hobbsee ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: she's sleeping
<Lure> toma: we know ;-)
<imbrandon> ok
<Riddell> raphink-work can't make it
<imbrandon> maybe next one we can make a few hours later like 2400 or soemthing ( will wait till end of meeting for that )
<Riddell> but allee, toma and me makes quota
<imbrandon> aye ;)
<Riddell> so first item on agenda is from hobbsee, discussing https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/50387
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50387 in kdenetwork "Default "privacy" settings don't respect privacy" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
<seaLne> i think it is normal behaviour
* allee disagrees
<Riddell> I don't really use instant messenging enough to know what the norms are
<imbrandon> my .02 cents is lock it down by default ( ie turn privacy settings on ) and if users want it on they can easly cahnge the settings
<seaLne> sending away etc is normal
<Riddell> so it's a complaining that "Become available when detecting activity again" is against privacy
<uniq> i don't like sharing 'hidden' information. atleast kopete should tell you it does this.
<Riddell> I can understand the worry there
<imbrandon> Riddell, yea
<seaLne> changing the OS info stuff i think is probably fine
<toma> it is the first thing i disable after installing im-software
<Riddell> "Always send notifications" sounds like we need more info on what those notifications are but I guess they're similar
<imbrandon> IE msn / icq on windows makes you turn that stuff ON if you want it 
<toma> allee: why dont you agree?
<Riddell> "Hide system and client info" that doesn't sound like anything you couldn't get with web browser ident
<seaLne> interesting
<Riddell> imbrandon: that's interesting
* seaLne has only ever used IM on linux
<Riddell> well if kopete is giving out more information than MSN we should change that
<DaSkreech> Riddell: Wouldn't Spim be a problem then?
* Lure is not overly concerned...
<Riddell> DaSkreech: what's that?
<allee> toma: be conservative.  Only give away info that are strictly necessary.
<DaSkreech> Spam through Instant Messenger
<allee> (by default)
<imbrandon> yea i agree with allee
<toma> allee: ah right, i misunderstood. I agree
<imbrandon> still an option but OFF by default
<uniq> i agree with allee too.
<DaSkreech> If someone can just send you an off message and gain a lot of information on your computer and you that might be cause for concern
<imbrandon> DaSkreech, exactly what we are addressing ;)
<DaSkreech> Plus I think that Ubuntu has prided itself and marketed it self as being secure by default
<Riddell> I don't see an issue with "Hide system and client info" but everything else I'm happy to have changed
<imbrandon> Riddell, spim == spam for IM's
<Riddell> I'll assign the bug to tonio, he's the default-settings hero
<toma> Riddell: i agree
<toma> i have another question about kopete
<Riddell> toma: go for it
<DaSkreech> imbrandon: RIght I'm saying that the fact that unknown people can message you and get info as soon as you start up Kopete (and some account) is serious issue
<toma> today i've learned that 0.12 sdoes not contain translations, is that handled by the lang packs?
<Riddell> toma: no, although some people might be able to translate it with rosetta if they want
<Riddell> but the correct solution is to get the kopete developers to fix their svn branch
<Riddell> KDE is perfectly able to do translations for a branch
<toma> absolutly, i'll have a look at that.
<Riddell> "What's that @SIG@ thing, and how do we use it?" anyone here put that on the agenda?
<toma> it just means we ship a nontranslated app, not sure if it should replace a translated one.
<[Nirvana] > prolly someone who didn't read the NOTE:
<imbrandon> not I but it seems like its explained below the agenda
<Riddell> toma: if translations appear later it's not a problem to add them
<nixternal> look at the line i added under imbrandon's last agenda item...see my name and the info after it..that is what @SIG@ does in the wiki
<imbrandon> nixternal, yes and that is explained in the "NOTE:" below, someone just dident read
<Riddell> "When will we get the wiki.kubuntu.org certificate fixed?" when the sysadmins get around to it
<Riddell> I'll politely poke them this week
<DaSkreech> Whats wrong with you?
<imbrandon> thanks Riddell ;) hehe 
<DaSkreech> I mean with it
<Riddell> allee: your item
<[Nirvana] > speaking of certificates, when is https://xubuntu.com gonna get fixed?
<allee> Fonts of wiki.kubuntu are way to small here.
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , best to ask the xubuntu team / meeting
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : get whoever runs that site to file a request in rt
<allee> We had a similar discussion about defaut font size in kubuntu.  I argue that same applies to wiki ;)
<[Nirvana] > ahh, because I filed a bug a while back
<Riddell> allee: heno was incharge of the wiki, I think canonical has a new webmaster about to start so it's probably in flux
<allee> Someone should fix the css
<Lure> allee: really? they are quite big here (147DPI), both konqueror and firefox
<Riddell> allee: however best thing would be if you or someone could make a patch and I'll find the right person to send it to
<allee> Lure: when I press once ctrl-+.  font size rougly matches here.
<[Nirvana] > xubuntu.com went to edubuntu, and it seems that edubuntu still owns the certificate for https://xubuntu.com...but now it points to the fridge
<imbrandon> and / or attach it to website-bugs in LP
<Riddell> allee: although you shouldn't use fixed point sizes in webpages
<ogra> [Nirvana] , ``
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : wrong meeting
<ogra> ??
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , this isnt the place for that
<seaLne> btw pretty please can we do new members in the next 30min so i can catch the last bus?
<Riddell> seaLne: sure, do we have any member candidates here?
<Riddell> preseumably seaLne is one :)
<Lure> allee: I need to do Ctrl+ - twice to have the same size as wiki.k.org
* DaSkreech remembers something to put into OTB
<imbrandon> seaLne, looks to be the only one on the agenda
<Riddell> I changed the font size on kubuntu.org recently to make it normal size not smaller than normal
<Riddell> ok seaLne, could you introduce yourself
* seaLne is Kenny Duffus
<Riddell> got a wiki page
<Riddell> anything about what you're been doing?
<[Nirvana] > he is THE Kenny Duffus... BehindUbuntu.com... duh! :P
<imbrandon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KennyDuffus
<seaLne> i have done various bug triaging and run behindubuntu.org and have done a few packages
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , this si protocal please refrain
<uniq> 10k+ karma :)
<toma> behindKubuntu.org?
<DaSkreech> heehee
<seaLne> pay the money and i'll use it aswell :)
<Riddell> I should say that I've known Kenny in real life for several years and he's often let me sleep on his floor when I get stuck in Glasgow
<imbrandon> ;)
<Riddell> so I might be in trouble if I don't vote him in
<kwwii> Riddell justs wants him in so that he has someone to talk Scots to
<kwwii> :p
<Riddell> toma, allee: any questions from our council members?
<Lure> seaLne did great work on bug traige for dapper
<toma> browsing through launchpad for a second
<toma> it looks good to me
<toma> seaLne: any kubuntu specific plans?
<allee> no really.  What I've seen up to now is impressive
<toma> what is sleuthkit?
<seaLne> toma: i'd like to see improvements in accessability
<seaLne> forensic sw
<Riddell> seaLne: we have just the spec for you http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAccessibility
<Riddell> lets vote
<Riddell> +1 from me
<seaLne> we have lots of expensive acessability stuf for windows but not in linux
<allee> seaLne: you have a connection to people working in kde on accessibility?
<seaLne> nope
<allee> seaLne: how long are you participating in (k)ubuntu?
<seaLne> hmm not actually sure, since some point in breezy
<Riddell> first sighted on #kubuntu-devel 2006-02-18
<Riddell> oh no, he was on in 2005 too
<Riddell> 2005-09
<imbrandon> sept 05
<toma> seaLne: did you sign the code of conduct?
<allee> yes he did
<Riddell> "Ubuntero: Yes "
<toma> ah ok
<toma> +1 for me
<allee> Okay +1 from me too.  Riddell trusts him and I see lots of activity traces from him
* imbrandon notes he is also a member of kubuntu-team and ubuntu-bugsquad
<Riddell> yay!
<toma> yes indeed
<Riddell> welcome to kubuntu membership seaLne 
<seaLne> wooo :)
<allee> seaLne: congrats
<imbrandon> seaLne, congrats
<toma> cool, we tricked another one ;-)
<Lure> seaLne: congrats
<seaLne> hehe
<imbrandon> haha
<Riddell> any other member candidates now?
<nixternal> one of these days ...
<Riddell> Lure: your item
<Lure> is it clear now what is accepted of edgy in terms of Kubuntu spec?
<Lure> (and general updated on major conclusion from UDS in paris)
<Lure> s/updated/update/
<imbrandon> and if so where is it housed other than Riddell's mind ;)
<imbrandon> ( the kubuntu specifics )
* allee is especially curious how interaction/help from KDE devels worked out
<toma> yes, the blogs wheren't much helpfull
<Riddell> the specs are still at https://launchpad.net/people/jr/+specs
<Riddell> I need to target the edgy ones to edgy
<Riddell> and there's a bunch I need to tidy up and poke through to approval
<Riddell> toma: I'll do a more complete blog soon
<Riddell> allee: having the KDE devels was really cool
<Riddell> at least for me it meant there was more than me at the KDE BoFs
<Riddell> kwwii: any opinion?
<Riddell> the teamspeak stuff didn't relly work, it's just too difficult to have a conversation in two places like that at once
<imbrandon> what were some of the major things that you think will affect kubuntu as a whole decided ?
<kwwii> well, we are starting a totally new way of working on the artwork
<kwwii> Mark announced today that I will be "artist in chief" for kubuntu for the edgy cycle
<Riddell> kwwii: announced where?
<toma> kwwii: cool!
<kwwii> on the ubuntu-artwork list
<imbrandon> congrats kwwii
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Riddell> great
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<allee> kwwii: cool
<kwwii> well, I am my own boss, that is what is means
<kwwii> but this time I want to get more people involved
<imbrandon> kwwii, where did he announce it ?
<kwwii> I have already talked to a few guys about helping out
<[Nirvana] > ubuntu-art he announced it
<[Nirvana] > on June 18
<Riddell> imbrandon: my main focus will be laptop support, although I've no idea how I'll do the laptop buttons since my laptop buttons don't seem to work at all
<kwwii> no, he only announced it today
<kwwii> that myself and frank schoep will be the AICs
<kwwii> that adds a lot of coordination work which I did not have during dapper
<Riddell> kubuntu-accessibility will be cool to have
<Riddell> and well overdue
<Lure> Riddell: I can help on buttons (not sure for PM GUI as I am not GUI developer ;-))
<kwwii> definitly
<imbrandon> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-June/002250.html  <-- the announcement
<seaLne> something laptop related that would be nice to fix is on this hp if you turn off wireless in windows you can't turn it on in linux afaik
<Riddell> kubuntu-easy-zeroconf also nice
<Lure> seaLne: easy fix - do not use windows ;-)
<Riddell> and I need to talk to mornfall about how we'll manage adept, but he seems to be cracking on with development at the moment
<allee> Riddell: did any of the KDE devels show interest to help on some specs?
<seaLne> tonight i had to to login to the fscking wireless :(
<Riddell> allee: I know el will help with the usability stuff we started with her
* allee will at least monitor comment on latopbuttons.  More if time permits ...
<Riddell> allee: and ervin will be interested in the laptop stuff from a Solid viewpoint
<Riddell> but I'm not interested in turning KDE developers into kubuntu developers, we need an upstream too!
<imbrandon> ;)
<Lure> Riddell: will sebas work on PM GUI?
<Riddell> Lure: oh yes, he started that already
<Lure> (or should we hack kpowersave wityh hal
<Lure> Riddell: great!
<toma> yes, saw some commits already
<Lure> toma: kde svn?
<toma> yes
<imbrandon> Riddell, is the solid stuff going to be making its way into edgy ?
<Riddell> Lure: the powersave stuff is interesting since shortly after we wrote the spec saying "we'll just make our own simple powersave frontend that uses HAL"...
<uniq> riddell: any more thoughts on dropping gamin or not?
<Riddell> they wrote an e-mail saying they'd turn kpowersave into a simple HAL frontend
<Riddell> uniq: I'm packaging kdelibs just now and have dropped gamin, I'll see how it works
<Lure> Riddell: true, I think they have seen that big splash inclusion into kde is less likely
<Riddell> imbrandon: no, solid is kde 4
<uniq> riddell: with --enable-fast-malloc (would make adept faster don't know anything about side effects) and +inotify? 
<DaSkreech> Riddell: There will be KDE4 Debs for Edgy?
<Lure> Riddell: we need to discuss with sebas interaction between kmilo & new-pm-gui regarding suspend/hibernate keys...
<Riddell> kde-kiosk-profiles is a fun task for anyone with a few evenings to spare
<Lure> (or is this already clear?)
<imbrandon> DaSkreech, no
<Riddell> DaSkreech: only very early ones for developers
<imbrandon> DaSkreech, preview only in late october
<Riddell> uniq: I'll look into using those too, thanks for reminding me
<Lure> Riddell: isn't Tonio_ expert in profiles?
<Riddell> uniq: inotify is in there of course
<DaSkreech> imbrandon: Wel Riddell is slated for KDE4 on edgy
<imbrandon> DaSkreech, preview only in late october
<Riddell> Lure: that's not difficult, we just use standard X keys and bindings
<Riddell> DaSkreech: I'm not slated for anything, I don't want to be slated thanks
<imbrandon> lol
<Lure> Riddell: ok, so pm-gui will have proper xkeysym binding for X86Sleep?
<Riddell> Lure: that's the idea
<DaSkreech> Ah ok so don't expect a KDE4 Repo till Fuzzy Ferret?
<uniq> riddell: great, if you build ppc debs i can test, :)
<Riddell> DaSkreech: correct
<DaSkreech> ok cool :)
<Riddell> DaSkreech: although we might have early kdelibs packages
<[Nirvana] > Fuzzy Ferret is next?
<DaSkreech> [Nirvana] : No
<Lure> Riddell: any idea how to make kmilo bindings configurable (g-s-d has some xml config file)
<DaSkreech> Flirty Flamingo :)
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , no name for it yet other than it will PROBBABLY start with an F
<Riddell> Lure: we make kmilo create standard X keys then let the suitable application pick them up and make them configurable
<allee> Next agenda item?
<[Nirvana] > that's funny because someone at neowin.net was said he was waiting for the Farty Ferret release, so they weren't too far off
<toma> would be nice to package kde4 next to kde3
<toma> so people can test
<Riddell> so in conclusion edgy looks cool and if anyone wants to pick up a spec and run with it please feel free to do so (but let me know)
<uniq> toma: something for kubuntu.org maybe?
<toma> ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: your item
<imbrandon> that would be mine, was wondring about the kde edgy timetable and when its going to tentively be uploaded
<toma> uniq: yes
<seaLne> ok got to go see yas later
<apokryphos> adieu
<toma> bye
<imbrandon> as gnome is already in the edgy repos
<Lure> seaLne: bye
<imbrandon> Timetable for KDE 3.5.3 ( or what ever version we're starting with ) getting uploaded to Edgy ( Gnome uploaded already ) -- imbrandon
<Riddell> imbrandon: well I've done qt 3 and 4 today, kdelibs is currently compiling away
<imbrandon> but i also seen kdelibs just come accross edgy-changes a few moments ago
<Riddell> and I'll do the rest tomorrow and wednesday
<Riddell> you have?
<DaSkreech> how many Apps have jumped to KDE4?
<imbrandon> err qt4-x11
<imbrandon> ^^ my mistake
<Riddell> imbrandon: phew :)
<Riddell> DaSkreech: none
<DaSkreech> Amarok, Kopete.. Kouple others
<Riddell> DaSkreech: a couple on qt 4 though
<DaSkreech> Sorry that's what I meant
<imbrandon> DaSkreech, none for kde4 , some qt4
<apokryphos> DaSkreech: they *can* be compiled, but none are fully ported
<Riddell> neither amarok nor kopete use qt 4
<Riddell> imbrandon: does that answer your question?
<imbrandon> it would be silly to post major apps this early
<imbrandon> and yes Riddell thanks
<toma> one of my coworkers mentioned that a new gnome was added recently
<Riddell> still plenty of gaps in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates if anyone wants to take some
<Riddell> toma: yes, the new gnome is being uploaded, although not very fast since they're at guadec
<imbrandon> Riddell, been working on some , also what do we do with those for us MOTU hopefulls? upload to revu ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: your item again
<[Nirvana] > if KDE 3.5.4 is slated for the end of July, we'll see it in edgy right?
<[Nirvana] > sorry for hijacking^
<Riddell> imbrandon: upload to revu and find someone to take a look at it, I'm happy to
<toma> nm
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : yes, I expect it will be
<imbrandon> Riddell, ok , and my next item ....
<imbrandon> Sugest Getting a KDE theme and redirects for doc.kubuntu.org and help.kubuntu.org just as *.ubuntu.com -- imbrandon
<Riddell> nixternal has info on this?
<nixternal> KDE theme is being worked on as we speak...redirects are all still in the process as the transfer to h.u.c isnt' complete 100%...we (DocTeam & WikiTeam) are currently working on getting this all organized...mdke is the man in charge
<imbrandon> kinda like the wiki.k.org
<apokryphos> cool
<nixternal> ;)
<Riddell> nixternal: who's working on redirects?
<nixternal> only CatDocs is being transferred from current wiki to new wiki...Matthew East
<Riddell> hi jjesse 
<nixternal> and that guy there
<jjesse> hello
<nixternal> ;)
<apokryphos> so all things on w.k.o will take you to h.u.c as it is
<nixternal> rain delay?
<Riddell> nixternal: has he requested the domains be set up?
<nixternal> jjesse:  you couldn't be any more perfect on time
<jjesse> gotta leave soon to softball game 
<jjesse> real quick :)
<nixternal> domains and all that should be completed already...
<imbrandon> apokryphos, as is right now yes
<nixternal> everything is being ported if it belongs to CategoryDocumentation to help.ubuntu.com
<Riddell> dig help.kubuntu.org
<Riddell> doesn't seem to return anythin
<imbrandon> right but what about help.kubuntu.org ;)
<jjesse> correct
<nixternal> the wiki.ubuntu.com is staying, just all of the CatDoc is being redirected
<nixternal> there is no subdomain for h.k.o
<imbrandon> nixternal, we are talking about resirects for the DNS and Kubuntu themes
<jjesse> i don't think anything has been setup yet for help.kubuntu.com to redirect to anything, it was just a minor suggestion at the time to mdke 
<nixternal> that i can dig at least
<imbrandon> jjesse, major sugestion to us kubuntu peeps ;)
<nixternal> Kubuntu themes are being recreated due to the moinmoin upgrade...old theme doesn't work with new server
<apokryphos> would be a good idea to get done; would be nice to have cleaner kubuntu theme when viewing docs
<jjesse> i just asked mdke if we could setup the kubuntu template from the wiki on help.ubuntu.com and also see if we could get a redirect
<jjesse> the last i knew he was working on getting it taken care of
<jjesse> reason i suggested to him was because he manages help.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> ok jjesse thanks
<Riddell> ok, I'll talk to mdke and see if he needs anything out of me for it
<Riddell> I'd love to see it happen of course
* nixternal too
<jjesse> sure, i think we have two people imbrandon and me trying to get teh same thing done w/o talking to each other :)
<imbrandon> hahah ;) probbly
<imbrandon> jjesse,  i'll ping ya after, also is kwwii working ont he theme artwork ?
<jjesse> in fact i wasn't even aware it was on the agenda until nixternal brought it up to me before the meeting started
<jjesse> sorry i can't stay longer gotta go play softball :)
<nixternal> doin' what i can boss ;)
<jjesse> imbrandon: i'll be out for a couple of hours 
<imbrandon> ok np 
<nixternal> gl jjesse ;)
<Riddell> jjesse: any suggestions from you about meeting time?
<imbrandon> NEW meeting time ;)
<jjesse> 2100 utc is 5 o'clock my time
<jjesse> when i leave for work
<jjesse> leave work
<jjesse> for home, so even an hour earlier would be perfect
<kwwii> imbrandon: yes, as "artist in chief" for the edgy cycle, I will be working on the theme artwork
<imbrandon> and hobbsee wants later 
<Riddell> hobssee suggested 13:00utc for her
<imbrandon> kwwii, cool just makin sure ;)
<kwwii> :)
<Riddell> any other agenda items before we do next meeting time?
<Riddell> I have one
<Riddell> could someone post a story to dot.kde.org about the ubuntuos podcast?
<toma> the what?
<Riddell> toma: see kubuntu.org
* nixternal just finished listening to that
<imbrandon> Riddell, heheh i'll try , also have you listend to the sound quality on that ewwww
<apokryphos> toma: podcast with our very own Riddell 8)
<Riddell> imbrandon: I know.  they're recording it over transatlantic skype
<imbrandon> Riddell, we did one with ummm ( not realeased yet ) on buntudot.org transalatic and its VERY clear ;)
<kwwii> skype! OMG, non-free software
<nixternal> hahah kwwii
<imbrandon> kwwii, better than skype for windows though ;)
<imbrandon> one step closer to FOSS ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<imbrandon> ok new meeting time ? 1300 utc ? thats ummm *calculates local time*
<toma> imbrandon: did anyone step up?
<imbrandon> toma, to what ?
<toma> for the dot story?
<imbrandon> ahh i said i would try , i have never posted to dot.kde but i'll give it a shot
<toma> ah cool
<Riddell> it's the Contribute link on the left
<imbrandon> kk
<apokryphos> thing is, it's not that much about kde really eh?
<imbrandon> kde developer ;)
<toma> riddell = kde
<apokryphos> kubuntu plans for edgy
<Riddell> it's all related, dot takes any story with a KDE angle
<Riddell> so next meeting, how does 13:00UTC suit people?
<kwwii> sounds perfect to me
<[Nirvana] > Prolly not good for West Coast North America
<Riddell> or we could try it at that time as a one off to see if anyone still turns up
<toma> in the weekend you mean ? ;-)
<imbrandon> hmm thats like early AM in the US
<[Nirvana] > in New York/Toronto/Basically along the East Coast it's 9:00 AM, which isn't bad
<nixternal> 8am
<toma> what do you think it is here right now?
<kwwii> nope, 9am
<Riddell> imbrandon: what time is it for you?
<imbrandon> yea 1300 is ok for me personaly but i was thinking about day job people
<allee> Riddell: 13.00 is during work time.  So I can promise to be available
<Riddell> it's 9am for jjesse wherever he is
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-27
<Riddell> allee: can?
<allee> s/can/can't/
<Riddell> yeah
* [Nirvana]  admires the day job people
<nixternal> jjesse is across the pond from me...about 80 miles due east
<imbrandon> yea 1300 is ok for me personaly but i was thinking about day job people
<imbrandon> err sorry
<imbrandon> for the repost
<Riddell> well lets try 1300 and see who makes it
* toma too. if there is time, i can make it, but i will be distracted a lot
<[Nirvana] > there is a meeting planner online from timeanddate.com
<Riddell> July 17th?
<allee> k
<Riddell> anyone able to e-mail that to the frige?
<imbrandon> ok 17th at 1300 utc , i'll send an email to fridge-devel for the events
<Riddell> thanks imbrandon 
<Riddell> any volunteers to tidy up the Meetings wiki page and move it to minutes?
<toma> allee: jabber me, i might forget
<imbrandon> nixternal, wanna do that since your the wiki man ?
<nixternal> huh
<nixternal> sorry..gettin' ice cream ;)
<imbrandon> nixternal, [17:10]  <Riddell> any volunteers to tidy up the Meetings wiki page and move it to minutes?
<nixternal> sure...i got can do that
<nixternal> whoa..i can do that ;)
<allee> toma: kontact -> calendar ;)
<nixternal> done deal
<Riddell> thanks nixternal, you rule
<Riddell> thanks everyone
<[Nirvana] > be speedy, I have some stuff to add :P
<toma> allee: i use a paper agenda
<jenda> yeah, nixternal does kinda rule ;)
<toma> sucks in alerts, but fine otherwise
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , you can add it to agenda +1 now
<nixternal> ahhh the love ;)
* DaSkreech waits for AOB
<[Nirvana] > imbrandon: I'll spare nix* the hardship of having to move it and just waita bit 
<imbrandon> ;)
<nixternal> thx ;)
<nixternal> haha..toma's quit msg is so homer simpson
<nixternal> do what is needed to the wiki...i have already created my copy local to work on
<[Nirvana] > imbrandon: would you want such a face to do such hard work on the wiki: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;id=644;type=avatar
<nixternal> ouch
<nixternal> that guy is ugly ;)
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , i work with nixternal every day most every day so i know what you mean ;)
<[Nirvana] > hehe
<imbrandon> ok bbiab
<nixternal> the love has left the building
<jenda> !lart nixternal
<nixternal> ;)
<DaSkreech> does Kubuntu have any plans for Firefox?
<Riddell> DaSkreech: no, it's not a KDE programme
<DaSkreech> Riddell: It gets a Kubuntu Home page though
<DaSkreech> Which breaks
<Lure> DaSkreech: I would love to have some kde-polish for firefox...
<Lure> there is even a spec for it...
<Riddell> DaSkreech: that's a bug then, we'll fix it (hopefully)
<Riddell> -> #kubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> yea i keep forgetting to file that one, its been a bug since breezy
<DaSkreech> ok
<sam__> .
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 28 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Jul 04:00: Technical Board | 06 Jul 04:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu
<rob> when is the next CC meeting?
<Kamion> rob: see agenda on wiki
<rob> thanks, got it
<rob> (not in topic)
<rob> or on ical
<Kamion> yes, needs to go on the fridge for that to happen
<Kamion> I don't have access
<Seveas> @part
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<GNAM> no ubugtu
<Seveas> indeed
<Seveas> had to kick him to put a meeting that's not on the fridge in the topic 
<Kamion> thanks
<ogra> and i was already impressed by jdub's speed :P
<lucas> @schedule Paris
<lucas> Msg Ubugtu @schedule Paris
<lucas> rah
<Seveas> lucas, CC meeting in 2 hours - after that ubugtu will return 
<lucas> okey, thanks
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<jenda> nixternal: ubugtu will be back soon... they say...
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> he is hiding ;)
<nixternal> playing hooky
<ogra> well, /topic still works to get the UTC dates 
<nixternal> thats the hard way ;)
<nixternal> still early here too
<jenda> we have 65 minutes to go.
<ompaul> jenda, that was so then now its like 50 minutes ;-)
<jenda> OMG - you're so one-minute-ago, ompaul...
<jenda> 
* rob blinks
<Hobbsee> hi rob 
<rob> hi Hobbsee 
* rob yawns.. 
<zul> hey calvin
<rob> I have to go to work in 6 hrs :(
* jenda quivers
<Seveas> heh, calvin and hobbsee 
<rob> my clock is 5 minutes fast
<Seveas> Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:55:25 +0000
<jenda> careful rob, you might end up going to work 5 minutes early.
<rob> that would be a shame
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
* Hobbsee kicks Seveas 
<jjesse> @agenda Detoirt
* Hobbsee has nothing to do with hobbes.
<jjesse> grumble
<Seveas> Hobbsee, did you see that pastebin post of mine?
<Hobbsee> Seveas: yes
* rob chuckles at jjesse 
<Seveas> Hobbsee, then you know I can kick you out if I want to :
<nixternal_> lol
<Hobbsee> Seveas: of course you can, then i'll call op abuse, tehn you'll do it again :P
<Hobbsee> op war time!   but not here.
<GNAM> @schedule rome
* rob runs
<GNAM> meeting in 3 min?
<Seveas> yes
<Seveas> well, 2
<Seveas> Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:58:04 +0000
<GNAM> .
<gnomefreak> good i have time brb
<Kamion> just attempting to round up the other CC members now
<azeem> I think mako might be on a plane
<azeem> back to the US; not sure though
<Kamion> I forgot to check when he was flying back, it's true
<jenda> and the sabdfl?
<azeem> 11:46 < mako> i'm off!
<azeem> that's CEST
<Kamion> I believe he should be around unless the brief UTC/local time confusion we had with his scheduling was worse than I thought
<Kamion> aha
<jenda> ah :)
<sabdf1> hi all
<Seveas> hi
<jsgotangco> hi
<rodarvus> hi there
<Kamion> ok, we're ready to go then
<jjesse> morning :)
<Kamion> first item is Listiquette
<Hobbsee> hi all
<gnomefreak> hi
* robitaille think we should schedule these meetings a bit more in advance...
<imbrandon> hi
* jenda agrees
<rob> heh
* nixternal +1
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<sabdf1> apologies for that
<sabdf1> we are being pretty good about spreading the timezones around, though
<Kamion> it was a bit confused this time round due to my vacation and the intervening conferences
<sabdf1> so, listiquette
<Kamion> we'll try to do the next one properly
<sabdf1> the forums guys have a very good set of guidelines
<ondrej> mm all
<Kamion> most of the ones mdke suggested are pretty mailing-list-specific
<sabdf1> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php?faq=policy
<Kamion> (apart from the CoC and topic-ness stuff at the top)
<Kamion> mdke said he can't make it to this meeting unfortunately, but I think we should be able to discuss it in his absence
<sabdf1> i have a slow connection here at the LP sprint
<Kamion> ok, perhaps it would be possible to merge some of the "general policy" stuff from the forums guidelines
<Kamion> although the forums have different problems they encounter in practice that they're trying to address, so probably not verbatim
<rob> I think most of the things on the Listiquette page just come down to common sense on behalf of its users
<sabdf1> hmm.. html fascism
<Kamion> Listiquette seems to be a pretty good start, so best-of-both should be fine
<Hobbsee> ah, we're supposed to reply underneath.  gotcha.
<sabdf1> i can't do FT-yellow in plain text!
<jsgotangco> heh
<Hobbsee> um, FT-yellow?
<rob> good question 
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: what's your email address?
<YukiCuss> Hobbsee: the background colour he uses in his mail, I think.
<jsgotangco> he likes sending email in yellow background or something...'
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: hobbsee@kubuntu.org
<Hobbsee> YukiCuss: ah right
* jsgotangco saw it in his laptop
<Kamion> with the exception of the "uses more bandwidth" bit, in practice I don't think I'd bother arguing the point as long as a plain-text alternate part was supplied
<Kamion> (re html)
<Hobbsee> Kamion: dont text-based clients not display html, and therefore leave a whole lot of rubbish around the actual text message?  i've never tried it
<rob> just one questing regarding the subject line though, from some locations where I read and want to reply to the mailing list I'm forced to modify the subject line so that the email passes though the gateway, any thoughts on the best way to get around this without breaking threads?
<gnomefreak> are the forums an Ubuntu-official forum or the content as far as "good pratices" not really controled?
<Kamion> Hobbsee: depends on the client, but anything that supports MIME (and nowadays most should) will display a preferred alternate part
<Kamion> so they'd display a text alternate
<Seveas> rob, most clients look at the In-reply-to header, not the subject line
<Hobbsee> Kamion: ah right.  like i say, i dont use mutt, etc
<simira> how
<siccness> mutts nice :)
<simira> uhm... when was this cc announced?
<rob> Seveas, ok (except my Outlook at work) :(
<jbailey> sabdfl has fallen off the Internet
<jbailey> He'll be back in a sec.
<YukiCuss> simira: too late.
<Hobbsee> simira: few hours ago
<Kamion> Hobbsee: mutt can display HTML, but I prefer to disable that because I haven't looked at its HTML decoding code in any detail and it seems likely to me that there might be vulnerabilities there that spammers could exploit
<simira> heh
<Hobbsee> Kamion: right
<Kamion> simira: not long enough ago. sorry. we did this at the start of the meeting
<simira> Kamion: I just checked in on irc. Is it much left?
<Kamion> rob: Outlook (well, Express at least) was never really designed to cope with Internet mail as opposed to corporate mail - but anything designed for Internet mail will be fine with in-reply-to/references threading
<Kamion> simira: we've only just started
<Seveas> simira, meeting just started, still at listiquette
<simira> ah, great
<simira> (I wouldn't have made dinner though, if I knew ;p
<simira> )
<Kamion> gnomefreak: see the link sabdfl quoted, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php?faq=policy
<rob> I can live with it, but I have had complaints about it breaking threads from other users
<gnomefreak> Kamion: yeah i was looking at that
<sabdf1> when changing the subject, is it reasonable to start a new thread?
<sabdf1> in other words, compose a new message rather than replying to the thread?
<sabdf1> i'm happy with mdke's drafts, and also happy to say to him "look over the forums guidelines and pull in anything you think is relevant"
<sabdf1> erk, sorry
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Kamion> sabdf1: I find it a bit difficult to follow discussions if people do that too much, personally
<Hobbsee> (sabdf1: heh, right.  rainbow or something would make it more interesting :P)
<Kamion> it can make sense if it's a total tangent and the thread is already quite deep, though
<Kamion> i.e. judgement call IMO
<sabdf1> Kamion: if they are changing the topic, do you prefer to see that in the same thread with new topic, or new thread?
<sabdf1> i'm ambivalent, but thought i'd ask what the best practice is
<Kamion> 
<Kamion> damn, sorry, unfamiliar keyboard
<rob> common sense again, I think
<Kamion> sabdf1: well, depends, sometimes changing the Subject: header is just a minor correction; if it's off onto a wildly different topic and there's not much to be gained from the previous quoted context then a new thread can make sense
<Kamion> I'd hesitate to try to lay down a rule either way
<sabdf1> ok, i don't think we need to address that then.
<Kamion> there's a specific problem mdke's trying to address there
<sabdf1> should we do a whip around the CC and see up or down how people feel about the document then?
<thoreauputic> thread hijacking is an annoyance
<thoreauputic> recent examples on the users list
<Kamion> which is that some mailing list clients are badly behaved and tend to follow up with "RE: blah" or "SV: blah" as a new thread, or that sometimes people don't understand their mail client's reply vs. new message functions
<Kamion> we can just annotate that sometimes a new thread makes sense if you're changing the topic and the old one's got too long and convoluted though *shrug*
<simira> agree on that
* Meyer is Mario Meyer
<Kamion> sabdf1: what you said, I think it's a pretty sensible start and can be fleshed out a bit with selected stuff from the forums guidelines. It'd have to go in the "hello, you just joined this mailing list" mail if we want to have any expectation that even some people might read it though
<Seveas> The listiquette page could be linked in the standard mailman footer
<Kamion> that too, if there's reasonable space there
<ogra_ibook> why was it renamed btw ? it used to be ListiQuette 
<Seveas> because it's only one word pwehaps...
<Kamion> ogra_ibook: that's pretty silly capitalisation considering that it's derived from the English word etiquette
<sabdf1> we should like to both this and the forums from the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<Kamion> ListEtiquette might be easier for non-English speakers to grok
<ogra_ibook> Kamion, well, i tried to use a wiki compliant title 
<Kamion> ogra_ibook: single words are still wiki-compliant
<sabdf1> +1 on ListEtiquette
<ogra_ibook> yeah, sounds way better 
<sabdf1> but they do need special linking -fu
<Kamion> (actually the etymology is indirect via netiquette, but never mind)
<sabdf1> elmo: ?
<elmo> fine by me
<ogra_ibook> Kamion, what i'm bothered about is that since i created ListiQuette there were many people linking to it, it apparently got renamed without forwarding 
<Kamion> ogra_ibook: ok, somebody should do a simple search/replace then
<Kamion> or stick a forwarding page in
<ogra_ibook> i dont care how its called now since i didnt touch it over a year, but the links should be preserved
<elmo> ogra_: so why don't you just add a forwarding page?  it's really not a big deal?
<sabdf1> ok, +1 from me and elmo
<sabdf1> can you auto-forward in Moin?
<jenda> yep
<jsgotangco> yes
<imbrandon> yea
<sabdf1> ok
<Seveas> lots of pages do that
<sabdf1> thanks everyone :-)
* ogra_ibook looks how to do that
<Seveas> ##redirect
<robotgeek> infact the wiki move is thanks to #redirect :)
<imbrandon> ogra_ibook, #redirect <newpage>
<Kamion> so, sabdfl has to go RSN and I don't really want to do the IRC network thing in a hurry / without sabdfl's input
<Kamion> plus sabdfl has the art council thing he wants to talk about
<rob> no go on the IRC thing then?
<Kamion> does anyone mind if we table the IRC network item for next meeting?
<lucychili> sounds cool
<jjesse> i don't
<sabdf1> i'm happy to abstain from the irc network discussion
<sabdf1> would be good to have ops input so i'll ask seveas to speak-but-not-vote in my stead
<Hobbsee> better to wait and see if freenode stabilises a bit before having that discussion
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: a lot of ops are around tonight, i believe.
<rob> it always was stable :)
<Seveas> I summarized my pov on this topic on http://wiki.kaarsemaker.net/UbuntuOnFreenode
<imbrandon> most are
<imbrandon> here
<Hobbsee> rob: right, except when it's being hacked, yes :P
<ompaul> I +1 Seveas 
<gnomefreak> here
<simira> is the rest of ubuntu channels moving network?
<apokryphos> =)
<ompaul> Hobbsee, no other networks get attacked
<thoreauputic> I also +1 Seveas 
<apokryphos> simira: no, that's just a topic of discussion.
<rob> Hobbsee, Freenode is a pretty big target compared to other networks
<sabdf1> ompaul: that's just a matter of time
<Hobbsee> rob: i realise that
<gnomefreak> I +1 Seveas also 
<rob> we have around 30,000 users
<imbrandon> +1 on Seveas POV
<apokryphos> all the reasons on that wiki say it, really
<simira> ah
<Seveas> I'm curious, why was this placed on the agenda?
<simira> Seveas: to have some community input?
<Hobbsee> my comment was more "people are more likely to say "get away from freenode" seeing as there was the attack a few days ago, and it's fresh on their minds"
<ompaul> sabdf1, woops on my part, misread Hobbsee's comment
<thoreauputic> plus freenode is the default OSS network - most people expect to find us here
<simira> I know I have strong feelings for staying on frenode
<Kamion> Seveas: mdz put it there; I believe it came up at the conference and he dumped it in here
<sabdf1> we should not jump just because of a single attack
<Kamion> but I didn't notice it until after leaving the conference, so I didn't ask him about it
<imbrandon> sabdf1, exactly, that will happen anywhere
<robotgeek> even ubuntu had a security issue, we did not stop using it :)
<simira> sabdf1: agreed
<jjesse> i like what Seveas wrote on his wiki page, it makes sense not to jump
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: of course, but that's probably what's on a lot of people's minds right now.
<Seveas> robotgeek, nice argument 
<rob> Seveas, +1 on UbuntuOnFreenode
<Kamion> it's perhaps worth noting that Ubuntu now has enough IRC users that us moving to a different network would make that network rather larger :-)
<sabdf1> unless we believe that freenode is irresponsible and liable to be more susceptible as a result
<sabdf1> and more of a target
<simira> I am on three of four networks, and freenode is definitely the best, imo
<YukiCuss> Kamion: it would also be a bit of an issue getting everyone current across.
<jenda> does anyone believe so?
<apokryphos> Kamion: exactly, as someone mentioned: oftc has 4000 users
<Seveas> Kamion, if all ubuntu users moved to oftc for instance, it would grow 25% - that WILL cause problems
<ogra_ibook> according to HedgeMage who is available in #edubuntu in her awake times it were ~20 passwords i dont think that justifies a move 
<apokryphos> we have well over 1000 in all ubuntu-related channels
<simira> three _or_ four
<jjesse> think of all of the changes that would have to be made if we moved networks, all of the refrences that are in documenation etc to freenode
<ogra_ibook> (HedgeMage is freenode staff)
<elmo> YukiCuss: not really - Debian recently did it
<sabdf1> i'm +1 on seveas' document, can we jump to a different topic?
<sabdf1> i unfortunately need to head to dublin in a few minutes
<sabdf1> well
<rob> sabdf1, we are working hard to stay one step ahead of the hackers
<YukiCuss> elmo: !
<sabdf1> i think i will love dublin
<Seveas> sabdf1, sounds good to me
<elmo> Seveas: no it wouldn't, not if we're sure to check with them in advance
<sabdf1> but i will miss part of this meeting
<ompaul> sabdf1, you talking today?
<sabdf1> ompaul: tomorrow. writing the speech tonight :-/
<Kamion> Seveas: (that's assuming that no Ubuntu users are currently on OFTC, which isn't true, but ok)
<Seveas> Next topic (if no one objects on moving on) is locoteams
<apokryphos> Kamion: there's around 20 r so last time I checked
<sabdf1> Seveas: i put another item on the general list
<Seveas> ah, *refreshes*
<Seveas> art council
<apokryphos> 12 now, in fact
<sabdf1> ok, just a brief update
<sabdf1> the art list has been very active
<Seveas> yeah, it came out of deep freeze in the last months
<sabdf1> things picked up in the rush to dapper, so we were not able to harness much of that energy for the last release
<sabdf1> but we had good participation in the latest dev summit in paris
<sabdf1> and i'm optimistic we can get good participation in edgy
<jsgotangco> yay
<sabdf1> participation == learning, mentoring, and some rough edges no doubt
<sabdf1> anyhow, here's (roughly) the structure we are working towards
<sabdf1> an arts council, appointed by the CC
<sabdf1> much like the CC is working with the forums to be involved in the appointment of the forums admins
<simira> sounds good
<sabdf1> once that is in place and well proven we will delegate some membership-recognition fu to them
<sabdf1> so artists making a sustained and substantial contribution to ubuntu can get membership through the arts council rather than directly through the CC
<sabdf1> which will be good, because we have people making good constributions and not getting recognised
<sabdf1> each release will also get a set of artists-in-chief
<sabdf1> we have appointed frank schoep for ubuntu for edgy, and ken wimer for kubuntu for edgy
<sabdf1> we will rotate those positions to ensure new blood gets a chance to lead
<sabdf1> and to learn how to interact with the distro
<sabdf1> a-i-c's are responsible for interfacing to the distro dev teams
<sabdf1> they will attend distro meetings
<sabdf1> they will also be responsible for the default "look and feel" of their release
<sabdf1> and will work with canonical on things like packaging for cd's / dvd's etc
<sabdf1> they will lead a "theme team" for the default theme in that release
<sabdf1> human in the case of ubuntu edgy
<Kamion> will the a-i-c be appointed by the art council in future, or do you intend to reserve judgement on that particular appointment?
<sabdf1> i forget what it's called for kubuntu edgy
<jjesse> crystal?
<Riddell> we're currently considering "Kubuntu Face"
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: crystal/polyester
<sabdf1> i've appointed the a-i-c's, and we should plan to continue to keep tight reign on that, but with arts council input
<Hobbsee> i think.
<Kamion> right
<sabdf1> the a-i-c's are part time jobs with funding from canonical
<sabdf1> so we can reasonably expect consistent attendance and coverage
<sabdf1> then, there will be additional theme teams
<sabdf1> so that we work on a diversity of themes
<elmo> does this mean we'll have less lastminute.com-ing on artwork?
<sabdf1> each theme will get a leader (the a-i-c's lead the default themes)
<elmo> :-P
<Kamion> ah, for a funded position that appointment policy makes perfect sense
<sabdf1> elmo: almost certainly not :-)
<sabdf1> but we'll see!
<simira> sabdf1: I think this sounds really good
<Seveas> "THIS IS NOT THE FINAL ARTWORK"
<sabdf1> so, folks who don't like the default theme are welcome to join alternative theme teams
<imbrandon> lol
<sabdf1> or start new ones
<sabdf1> this way, there's room for the tangoista's
<Kamion> we're still debating how the distro team meetings are going to work for Edgy (Ian's collating input on useful timezones)
<sabdf1> and the tangerinists
<Kamion> but both Frank and Ken are in fairly central timezones so it seems unlikely that that would present a problem
<sabdf1> we want to have a set of themes in edgy that covers high-speed-low-complexity, high-contrast-for-accessibility, etc
<Kamion> going to work> with regard to scheduling I mean
<Hobbsee> on artwork, was the decision to have the same theme across kubuntu/ubuntu/xubuntu, just in different colours, implemented?  I never heard the final decision on that.
<Hobbsee> (sorry if it's too offtopic)
<sabdf1> right now the art guys (troy sobotka leading) are organising nominations for the arts council
<sabdf1> and the cc will be asked to appoint them in the next week or two
<sabdf1> so folks who are interested - please go over to the art team list and participate
<sabdf1> any concerns, issues or questions?
<sabdf1> sorry, i've been winging it a little on this one but i think it's off to a reasonable start and i wanted to get balls rolling
<simira> can we get noticed earlier for the next cc?
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: my question above, if it's not too offtopic
<Kamion> "balls will roll"> sounds painful
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: no, wehave an official policy of independence
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't think kubuntu or xubuntu want to see that
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: excellent!  :D
<sabdf1> the a-i-c's are absolutely NOT required to enforce any consistency
<Kamion> simira: we covered that at the start of the meeting
<Hobbsee> Riddell: *exactly*
<simira> Kamion: ah. sorry.
<Kamion> 15:05 < sabdf1> apologies for that
<Kamion> 15:06 < sabdf1> we are being pretty good about spreading the timezones around, though
<Kamion> 15:06 < Kamion> it was a bit confused this time round due to my vacation and the intervening conferences
<Kamion> 15:06 < Kamion> we'll try to do the next one properly
<sabdf1> of course we expect them to learn from one another and spread the best ideas
<sabdf1> but we want the KDE folks to feel like Kubuntu is *Genuine KDE*
<simira> lol
<sabdf1> and the same for the Gnome and XFCE guys with Ubuntu and Xubuntu
<apokryphos> exactly
* imbrandon nods *
<Hobbsee> hehe good
<sabdf1> there are some places that bitesus
<ogra_ibook> "collaboration to the *core*" :)
<sabdf1> like the bug reports from folks with both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed
<sabdf1> who wonder why oo.o went blue
<sabdf1> but maybe we can find nice solutions to those too, one by one
<elmo> (they should probably just conflict?)
<sabdf1> any other issues?
<imbrandon> elmo, no
<ogra_ibook> elmo, careful, dont let Keybuk read that :)
<sabdf1> elmo: some folks might run a thin client server with users who have their own login prefs
<Seveas> elmo, not if you don't want keybuk to chase you with a large pointy stick
<Hobbsee> hehe - but who *doesnt* want to be chased with a long pointy stick?
* nixternal :)
<elmo> Seveas/ogra: you're thinking of something else
<elmo> keybuk gets annoyed about misuse of conflicts where replaces is better
<ogra_ibook> elmo, i'm thinking of my battle with the screensavers ...
<elmo> but sabdfl's right, conflicting isn't a good idea
<Seveas> anything else or shall we move on?
<Seveas> *silence*
<Hobbsee> move on
<sabdf1> ok
<jjesse> i guess that means move on :)
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> did any of the locoteam leaders make it today?
* YukiCuss raises hand.
<Seveas> YukiCuss, ok, good to see at least one 
<YukiCuss> seeing no one else, shall i go then?
<Seveas> yeah, please do
<YukiCuss> okay!
<YukiCuss> basically, i'm here just to give a progress update on the Australian team.
<YukiCuss> we've become more of an `active' team, and are here as part of a wish to be an `official' (recognised) team.
<YukiCuss> we've been having regular fortnightly meetings for about 3~4 months, in a self-regulating manner.
<Kamion> I thought we recognised the .au team a while back
<YukiCuss> there was no official decision on that, so i have understood.
<YukiCuss> i spoke to Matthias Ulrichs about it, and he said that we were proposed until we next turned up and discussed it.
<Kamion> give me a moment to dig
<YukiCuss> at the moment, we're still here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList , on `proposed'.
<sabdf1> i need to step afk now. seveas, could you stand in my place for the member discussions? we'll give elmo the casting vote if needed
<Seveas> sabdf1, will do, thanks!
<sabdf1> ok, i'll review the log later
<Hobbsee> bye sabdf1 
<Seveas> and have fun in eire!
* jenda waves nervously
<YukiCuss> have fun mark!
<sabdf1> thanks all see you again soon
<siccness> Catcha
<Kamion> perhaps I'm wrong; I can't find it in the logs, so I'll assume smurfix is correct
<Kamion> bye Mark
<YukiCuss> Kamion: *nods*
<YukiCuss> shall i continue a review of our activity, then?
<Kamion> pleased do
<Kamion> s/d//
<YukiCuss> sure.
<Hobbsee> jenda: dont worry, youv'e got ages to wait
<YukiCuss> so, we've been having an active IRC channel, over the course of which we've been supporting local users who have been asking for help.
<YukiCuss> as with our mailing list, where we've been discussing local matters.
<YukiCuss> such matters include the recent government legislation that has come into review, which could affect FOSS in Australia.
<YukiCuss> our members are fairly active contributors to ubuntu, including Ubuntu Members itself.
<YukiCuss> (from the team here now includes elkbuntop, Kamping_Kaiser, siccness, Hobbsee, thoreauputic and lucychili (!))
* shenki clears throat
<gnomefreak> lol
* Kamping_Kaiser giggles
<YukiCuss> and shenki! dear me.
<YukiCuss> we've also been compiling lists of local vendors who support (or do NOT support) Ubuntu,
<Seveas> YukiCuss, that is a really good initiative
* Hobbsee would not be confident to speak for the team, having not been there much.
<YukiCuss> and ones who do or do not agree to ship without Microsoft products.
<Seveas> in NL we're going to do the same soon
<YukiCuss> neat! :)
<Seveas> would be nice to share some experiences (but not in this meeting)
<YukiCuss> there's also been emails going back and forth to PC magazines about including Ubuntu, such as APC (arguably one of the most famous ones around here).
* jenda notes that. Would be a great thing to do here (or everywhere)
<Seveas> YukiCuss, sounds like -au is doing a great job
<YukiCuss> we're operating smoothly! ^_^
<YukiCuss> we have a nice community spirit, overcoming a few hurdles in the past few fortnights.
<Kamion> YukiCuss: how are you linked with Linux Australia, if at all?
<YukiCuss> and there've been a few (physical) meetups including the Dapper release parties.
<YukiCuss> Kamion: we have no official connection with Linux Australia, but we do have members who are also members (or active contributors) to L.A.
<Kamion> nod
<YukiCuss> so, that's the summary of some of our past activities. (since we last attended, or so!)
<shenki> Kamion: linux australia has been conducting an awareness campaign and petition regarding local DRM laws, something which we discussed at our meeting tonight about  getting involved with
<YukiCuss> if we could manage it, having backing from a company or companies (local ones, as well as Canonical) would help turn the tides with regards to these proposals.
<Seveas> anyone have a question for YukiCuss ?
<Kamion> ok, from some of the roster of members I doubt you'll have a problem
<Kamion> (as locoteam)
<YukiCuss> *nods*
<Kamion> the local CD distribution thing is a very useful initiative to take some of the strain off shipit
<Kamion> thank you for that
<Kamion> do you know if Peter's going to be updating that to dapper?
<YukiCuss> well, we've had quite a few members partaking in that!
<YukiCuss> i hope that he will be, but i haven't been able to get in contact with him very recently.
<Kamping_Kaiser> Kamion, we dont have many dappers yet ;)
<YukiCuss> he has been doing an excellent job, though.
<Kamping_Kaiser> absolutely
<lukketto> Hi!
<Seveas> hi lukketto, we'll get to member candidates soon
<lukketto> OK, thank you!
<Seveas> Kamion, do we need votes on ubuntu-au?
<Kamion> ok, if there are no more questions for Yuki, I move that we approve ubuntu-au
<Seveas> seconded
<Kamion> elmo: ?
<elmo> +1
<Kamion> YukiCuss: ok, go ahead and get in touch with smurfix for whatever you need there
<Kamion> thanks
<YukiCuss> alright! ^_^
* shenki cheers
<YukiCuss> thank you very much!
<lucychili> \o/
<Seveas> congratz!
<Kamping_Kaiser> yay.
<jjesse> congrats
<Kamion> any other locoteam folks here?
<rodarvus> congratulations :)
<Kamion> for those on the agenda
<Seveas> going down in 3
<Seveas> 2
<Seveas> 1
<Seveas> ok, member candidates
<lukketto> Hi everybody!
<Seveas> Rolando Blanco / whitesoft?
<lukketto> I'm Luca Gervasio
<Seveas> are you around?
<Seveas> lukketto, please wait your turn
<lukketto> sorry!
<Seveas> np 
<lukketto> :)
<ompaul> Seveas, ask again methinks
<Seveas> no whitesoft in sight
<Kamion> jenda: here?
* jenda raises his hand
<Seveas> jenda, that means you're up - please give us your 3-liner
<jenda> here it comes:
<jenda> I'm a Law student in Prague, Czech Republic. Through Free Software and Ubuntu, I have developed an interest in intellectual property law (my mind probably follows similar lines to the Piratbyran).
<jenda> Within Ubuntu, I have joined and supported the Easyubuntu Team ever since it's (re)birth, I have revived the Marketing Team two months ago and we will have our first meeting here tomorrow. I've also been active with the New User Network and on my own exploring what this project could look to do in the future.
<jenda> Most recently, I've begun helping the Czech community get up and get together in several things - the IRC channel, translating the CoC and a lot more, and of course, local marketing. I made a speech about the localisation of Ubuntu to the local OpenSolaris-UG, which ondrej couldn't make it to.
<jenda> My wiki page describes in more detail: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JendaVancura
<jenda> I'll take this opportunity to ping some of those that might be able to testify on my activity:
<jenda> ondrej, robotgeek, nalioth, ompaul, gnomefreak, silbs, nixternal, ptomes, 
<jenda> eek... that's a three page three liner, sorry ;)
* nixternal is here
* ondrej is here as well from Czech LocoTeam
<robotgeek> i can vouch for jenda on the Marketing Team, and has helped more collaboration with the doc team. 
<gnomefreak> he has been working with me to try and bring -nun up and moving foward and he helps alot in #ubuntu
<Seveas> jenda is indeed very active in quite a few places since a while ago - keeps poking me for things
<jjesse> i have seen jenda in #ubuntu-doc offering help
<Kamion> jenda's wiki essay^Wpage looks pretty good
<Seveas> reviving dead things like a loose cannon
<Seveas> (which is meant as a compliment)
* ptomes is here
<Kamping_Kaiser> no matter where i go jenda s been doing stuff, cant escape ;)
<ondrej> jenda is helping on #ubuntu-cz and with other stuff on Czech LoCo Team, he also helped to settle down some of personal problems in Czech community
* ompaul can point at his involvement in various activities, marketing / IRC etc
<Kamion> jenda: were you (remotely?) involved in the marketing discussions at the recent conference? I wasn't involved in them myself so didn't notice either way
<nixternal> one thing about jenda is the common question..."What has Jenda been doing for Ubuntu?"...my answer is simple...What hasn't Jenda been doing...Jenda is doing a remarkable job organizing a Marketing team with great community support
<nalioth> jenda is a great asset to Ubuntu in his efforts on the New User Network and the marketing team
<Kamion> but I know there were some marketing things on the schedule
<jenda> Kamion: Yes, I'm participating in that. I put the meeting on the schedule.
<ondrej> jenda is also one of few people who offered help with cz loco and he actually _did_ some work :-)
<Kamion> jenda: how did they go?
<nixternal> jenda has taken much of his time and focused his attention on getting the marketing team up to par for the Spread Ubuntu campaign as well as created contacts (that support his every effort) from w/in Canonical
<jenda> Kamion: the meeting will be tomorrow and we hope to get a new, unified marketing team going on LP, mailing list, wiki and #ubuntu-marketing.
<ondrej> but real question is: do we really want him in ubuntu, because he will not give anybody any rest :-D
<jenda> ondrej: thank you 
<jjesse> +1 ondrej
<nixternal> lol ondrej ;)
<nixternal> +100
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<gnomefreak> lol
<ptomes> I appreciate Jenda's capability of help with presentation abou Czech localisation and his contribution to Czech community including forum moderating.
<Kamion> ok, all sounds good to me, +1 based on the sustained/significant marketing and czech contributions
<Seveas> +1 from me too
<Seveas> elmo, ?
<Kamion> and for bugging me about this meeting until I gave in
<elmo> +1
<Hobbsee> Kamion: hehe, that'd be right
<Seveas> jenda, congratulations!
<nixternal> CONGRATS JENDA!!!!
<matthewrevell> Congrats Jenda :)
<jenda> Thanks, everyone :)
<Seveas> Joey Stanford?
<jjesse> congrats jenda
<gnomefreak> congrats jenda 
<Kamping_Kaiser> woot. awsome jenda 
<nixternal> feel the love ;)
<imbrandon> congrats jenda
<rodarvus> congrats
<nixternal> now that is Ubuntu at it's finest
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<lucychili> =)
* jenda is feeling it ;) Ubuntu...
<Seveas> Jon Dowd?
<nalioth> y'all got other channels to feel the love in, let's keep up with the meeting
<Seveas> Maxence Dunnewind / Sp4rky?
<ptomes> Jenda: I am glad to see you as a Ubuntu member, my friend and colleague.
<Seveas> lukketto, (LucaGervasio) - you're up. If any of the people I called before still show up, please poke me.
<Seveas> lukketto, ?
<lukketto> ok
<lukketto> I'm Luca Gervasio, 31, living in Italy and I'm a mathematician. I work in a University where last month my team developed and published a new way to identify objects using mathematical analysis.
<lukketto> I joined the Edubuntu Documentation, Edubuntu School Support and Edubuntu Testers teams, to spread the use of Ubuntu in pubblic schools where, often, the lack of funds is a serious problem(!). I noticed that kids are very happy about an operating system targeted on them and they find the use of PCs more easier than using other OSs. If we work on kids bringing them different options, one day they will be able to choose among d
<lukketto> Promoting Ubuntu needs documentation in your language and for this reason I decided to become a member of the Ubuntu Italian Translator Team (thanks MDKE!) and at present we're translating the new "Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter"(UWN) too.
<Kamion> you're a member of a lot of teams; how do you keep up? :)
<lukketto> I work in my office...
<Seveas> heh, I know the feeling 
<lukketto> if my boss sees me...
<lukketto> I'm fired :D
<Kamion> btw, cut off at "choose among d"
<ogra> then you got a space and a d more than me :)
<lukketto> Actually I work in a University
<lukketto> ...it is very interesting spreading Ubuntu in it
<Seveas> ogra, can you cheerlead for his edubuntu work?
<ogra> Seveas, i have never seen him around in #edubuntu and dunno where the doc team guys are that might have worked with him
<Seveas> and are there ane people from .it to help ogra cheerleading?
<lukketto> (I'm a new member)
<ogra> lukketto, btw, since you are so much involved in edubuntu stuff, why didnt you apply for membership at the edubuntu council ? 
<ogra> lukketto, membership implies that you already did some contribution, joining the teams doesnt suffice
<lukketto> Sure, for this in edubuntu I'm very new...
<ogra> you should at least have some howto or some wikipages written or made some artwork or something else that counts as contribution and is measureable
<Seveas> lukketto, sounds like you're doing a good job, keep up that good work
<lukketto> ...my contribution in edubuntu works under the courtains...
<lukketto> Spreading ubuntu in pubblic school is not easy
<lukketto> (edubuntu)
<jsgotangco> admittedly, these edubuntu teams aren't that tangible with regards to team output at the moment
<ogra> lukketto, well, the council needs something it can measure
<lukketto> I have to fight with teacher that don't know how to switch on a pc...
<lukketto> ...anc that think that windows is the only solution for the internet...
<Kamping_Kaiser> lukketto, how long have you been involved in using ubuntu, and how long contributing?
<Seveas> But I'm afraid that without being able to confirm contributions I am going to say -1 for now - maybe you can work together with me in the next weeks gathering testimonials from people so the decision wil be easier
<lukketto> I have been using linux (RH first and Debian later) for about 5 years and Ubuntu since Hoary. What brought me to Ubuntu? I'm an "idealist" and so, when I heard about a community that has for its motto "Linux for the human beings", what do you think I did? I immediately joined it and signed the code of conduct!
<jjesse> i had to apply twice i think before i made the council, just need to hav emore people back up your work
<lukketto> But something is going on in the pubblic school....
<Kamion> OK, sounds like we may have to discount the Edubuntu contributions for now since the Edubuntu folks haven't been aware of them, although the Italian translation work should be tangible
<Kamion> any Italian translators here?
<lukketto> ...thanks to my girlfriend (she is a teacher) I introduced me in several schools ;) ...
<lukketto> Kamion I tried to contact MDKE...
<lukketto> ....but he is offline :(
<Kamion> (I haven't quite figured out how to get Launchpad to tell me who translated what)
<Seveas> Kamion, -EIMPOSSIBLE
<Kamion> (though somebody claimed the other day that it's possible)
<Seveas> really?
<ompaul> https://launchpad.net/people/gervasio/+translations
<Kamion> yeah, it was in person though and they didn't give details
<Seveas> ompaul, those aren't the actual translations
<Kamion> ompaul: at the single-string level, not the template level
<ompaul> ahh
<lukketto> I'm an official italian ubuntu translator, as you can see I work on the wiki in the italian site
<Kamion> hmm, ok, this is basically our fault because the meeting was scheduled with so little notice, so not as many people as usual can turn up to offer corroboration
<Seveas> true that
<Kamion> lukketto: right, the problem is figuring out how to separate out your contributions from those of the other translators so that we can get an idea of how much stuff you've done
<Kamion> unfortunately the tools aren't quite adequate for this; I'm going to file a launchpad bug about that if there isn't one already
<Kamion> lukketto: would you mind persuading people who've worked with you to show up in two weeks' time, and we can talk about it then?
<lifeless> rosetta karma is a indicator of activity
<Kamion> this isn't a rejection at all - it's just good to gather second opinions
<Seveas> Kamion, bug 80
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 80 in rosetta "cannot see who put in bad translation" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/80
* Kamion looks
<lukketto> Kamion: I' trying to contact my "team leader" but it seems he is offline :(
<Kamion> lukketto: yeah, mdke said he wouldn't be able to make this meeting unfortunately
<YukiCuss> afaik, translation karma has gone up as of late.
<Kamion> if mdke is happy with the work you've been doing, I'll have no issue
<Seveas> same here (but next time I won't be voting)
<Kamion> mdke is normally around, and if he won't be around next week I'll make sure to get a comment from him in advance
<Kamion> er next fortnight
<lukketto> Kamion: I'll try now with an email...I hope he is online
<Seveas> lukketto, he isn't - he already told us that
<Kamion> Seveas: this is kind of the other way up from that bug
<Kamion> going from person to list of translations rather than from translation to contributor
<ogra> for the edubuntu-it stuff try to get hold of bimberi, he's doing lots of edubuntu-it work
<Hobbsee> ping?
<Seveas> Hobbsee, pong
<Hobbsee> Seveas: thanks, thought my connection was going down.
<Seveas> lukketto, sorry that we have to disappoint you for now, but please come back in two weeks time when the meeting datetime will be known to more people
<lukketto> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> rodarvus, you're up next
<rodarvus> hi there
<rodarvus> Rodrigo Novo ("rodarvus"), Canonical Employee, I was at UDS Paris last week
<rodarvus> I'm working on Edubuntu, LTSP and on the One Laptop per Child projects (and some other unrelated Ubuntu packages)
<rodarvus> In the past I was developer (and then lead developer) for the Conectiva Linux distro (at Conectiva), did performance/optimization C development at Terra Lycos, developed an OpenOffice.org derivative (at Freedows Consortium) and did development on the Maemo Platform SDK (at Nokia Institute of Technology)
<Seveas> ogra, start the cheerleading please ;)
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<ogra> ro 
<ogra> dra
<ogra> vus
<ogra> !!
<rodarvus> haha
<jjesse> lol
<gnomefreak> lol
* ogra cheers !
<jsgotangco> \o_ rodarvus _o/
<rodarvus> rodarvus!
<rodarvus> oops :)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> rodrigo and i met in paris and i'm eager to work with himm on edubuntu ...
<Seveas> rodarvus, you do know that it will be hard to replace JaneW ;)
<rodarvus> Seveas, for this we'll have RichardW ;)
<jsgotangco> well he's not replacing JaneW =)
<ogra> indeed i cant do much about work related stuff yet, since there were only two weeks we worked together yet ... but he was very helpful at the spec discussions and i trust his skills to take the technical lead on edubuntu
<ogra> s/do/say/
<Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/51125
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51125 in rosetta "can't get details of a translator's activities" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<ogra> he also met the whole of the CC in person, so i guess they can judge themselves :)
<Seveas> heh
<Kamion> well, it's always difficult to deal impartially with new employees of course, but it's good to hear that rodarvus dived into the discussions in Paris helpfully
<Seveas> I only have the usual 'no 2 months of activity yet' argument, but that's a moot point for a canonical employee I guess
<Kamion> and I expect to get sustained contributions by virtue of the fact that who on earth quits a job after a month if they don't have to
<rodarvus> indeed
<ogra> especially with such sexy colleagues like me 
* ogra hides
* Seveas refrains from commenting on that
<jsgotangco> ughh
<Kamion> rodarvus: are you finding your way around ok?
* rodarvus rembembers the other Saturday :)
<ogra> lol
<rodarvus> Kamion, sure, its coming along nicely
<Kamion> incidentally, I'd never have recognised you from your photo on LP
<rodarvus> I had grown beard last week (but not on the LP photo)
<Kamion> I'm assuming you have a mentor, but feel free to shout in the direction of pretty much any of core-dev for guidance if need be
<rodarvus> Kamion, ogra is helping me a lot, indeed - thanks a lot for the offer - I'll surely bug core-dev in the next few weeks :)
<Kamion> righto, +1 as far as I'm concerned
<rodarvus> (starting today, probably)
<Seveas> +1
<Seveas> elmo, ?
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> heh
<rodarvus> thanks guys :)
<Seveas> ok, congratz rodarvus !
<jsgotangco> \o_ rodarvus _o/
<ogra> welcom rodarvus 
<ogra> !!
<gnomefreak> congrats
<Kamion> done
<Seveas> indeed, nice work all 
<rodarvus> I promise to work hard to keep the good name of Ubuntu
<ogra> else we'll just rename it :P
<Kamion> is Paul Schulz here?
<Seveas> Kamion, a CC meeting next week would not be too unreasonable I think, given that this one was poorly announced and it's been 4 weeks since the last one
<Kamion> honestly I'm not sure I have the stamina :P
<Seveas> hehe
<rodarvus> Seveas, I believe there is a Techical Board meeting next week
<rodarvus> aren't TB & CC meetings supposed not to overlap?
<Seveas> Kamion, in any case, *please* schedule it soon and notify $world
<Kamion> I'd rather just keep to the usual schedule, but schedule it now
<Kamion> elmo: can you get to Mark's schedule via Claire?
<Seveas> now would be soon enough
<elmo> sure
<Kamion> any times looking particularly good?
<elmo> yeah, anything but two weeks from today
<Kamion> we should probably cycle it a bit - either 2000 or 0800 perhaps
<elmo> sabdfl is away for 10-23
<Kamion> oh, doh
<jenda> (0800 is cruel on the americans)
<Kamion> erm. how about we do next week at 0800 UTC and then go back to three weeks after that?
<Seveas> jenda, 2000 is cruel on the australians ;)
<jenda> hehe ;)
<Kamion> jenda: we hardly ever do that time, so they can probably cope this once
<elmo> afternoon of the 6th is possible
<Hobbsee> Seveas: you bet it is.
<Kamion> 6th is a Thursday
<elmo> alternatively we could dig up mako, if we can find him sabdfl is optional
<jenda> Kamion: true, it's only fair.
<elmo> kamion: yeah, he's not available on the tuesday
<Hobbsee> Kamion: 2100UTC isnt so bad, or 1300 UTC
<Kamion> elmo: let's do 2000 UTC in two weeks time then and hope that mako's around; that time is civilised for him
<Seveas> Hobbsee, we cycle meetings *because* we can't please everyone - so no point in complaining about a simgle meeting ;)
<Kamion> we can do the 0800 thing some other time
<elmo> kamion: shall we confirm with mako before getting people's hopes up?
<Kamion> elmo: ok, I'll send mail
<Kamion> and I'll take responsibility for announcing it
<Hobbsee> Seveas: i realise that, i was commenting on decent timezones for aussies, if you wanted them to be there in particular.  i got struck by a vicious kde keyboard bug, hence the disconnect before, so came in on the backend
<Seveas> Kamion, I'll send jenda to chase you ;)
* jenda barks
* Hobbsee gets her long pointy stick ready to spear Kamion for not announcing it early enough
* Kamping_Kaiser has jenda snipped
<jenda> Seveas: you know what I'm good at ;)
<Seveas> Anyone have any other business for the CC?
<Seveas> going once
<Kamion> mail sent
<Seveas> going twice
<Seveas> ok, meeting ends! Thanks everyone, see you in two weeks (hopefully)
<YukiCuss> sold!
* Hobbsee is sure she could think of something.
<ompaul> to YukiCuss 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. fraid not
<Seveas> Kamion, did you do launchpad magic today?
<YukiCuss> ompaul?
<ompaul> sold to YukiCuss 
<elkbuntu> YukiCuss, Sold to the man in the astronaut suit?
<Kamion> Seveas: yep
<YukiCuss> oh, excellent!
<Kamion> I'll do the wiki edit too
<YukiCuss> elkbuntu: more or less. :)
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> then I can have dinner, fiancee is already looking mad at me
<Seveas> bye all
<Hobbsee> hehe bye Seveas 
<lukketto> bye
<YukiCuss> Seveas: nighty night!
<ompaul> cheers Seveas 
<Hobbsee> you should never let a woman look mad at you - it almost always means trouble.
<ogra> depends on the level of madness :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: all woman can get very high levels of madness - it increases exponentially.
<ogra> and the kind ...
<Kamion> I've /msged mdke about the Listiquette discussion
<lukketto> ...and if she is mad :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: true
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to get mad at ogra sometime.
<ogra> haha
* Kamping_Kaiser makes a mental note to not be in the area
<Kamion> wiki edit done
<Hobbsee> ogra: i'm sure i'll find something, maybe about how long it's taking for the screensavers to be fixed?  :P
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'm trained on people ranting at me about screensavers ... you get used to it after a while ...
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> (i hope upstream gets a settings button into gss in edgy time)
<Hobbsee> ogra: yeah, but you've had a woman do it to you?  that works even better, cos we can scream louder and higher :P
* thoreauputic throws a couple of bouncing cows at ogra 
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yes, that'd be nice :)
* Hobbsee already has a settings button for that, if you're meaning rss-glx
<ogra> would solve 100s of diplicate bugs at once :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ogra> no i mean gnome-screensaver
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> ahhh...yep
<ogra> which hasnt one at all
<YukiCuss> ciao all!
<Hobbsee> ogra: --> #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> yep
<gnomefreak> while i have smart people in one channel what team (or person) works with bugbuddy?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: ask dholbach, no idea
<gnomefreak> ok ty
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<amachu> hi
<amachu> everyone.. this is ramadas... representing Tamil Team
<Seveas> amachu, meeting ended half an hour ago
<amachu> Oh!
<amachu> Seveas: when is the next meeting?
<Seveas> amachu, most likely in 2 weeks
<Seveas> we're waiting for confirmation from mako
<Kamion> subscribe to CommunityCouncilAgenda to be notified of the time
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<robitaille> Seveas,  how often Ubugtu  reloads the topics?
<Seveas> robitaille, hourly
<robitaille> Seveas,   I added the marketing meeting 3 hours ago....it just showed up when I reloaded the topic just now
<Seveas> odd
* Seveas checks logs
<jenda> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> yay
<GazzaK> thats cool
<KenSentMe> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-28
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> Marketing Team? auauusausa
<GNAM> that's new
<jenda> GNAM: you're welcome to come ;)
<lukketto> GNAM: do you intend the meeting or the team?
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<jenda> hello digitalmouse
<digitalmouse> hey there!
<digitalmouse> whoops!  hit the wrong button :-p
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!  you are a bit early to the meeting... it's scheduled for later today
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 28 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<digitalmouse> @schedule Hamburg
<digitalmouse> oh wait.. that would be the same for Amsterdam too
<digitalmouse> meh
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 28 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 22:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> digitalmouse, in the unprobable even that that ever changes you can use Berlin as timezone ;)
<digitalmouse> good point Seveas..  I was just trying Hamburg since that is a bit closer to me (I'm in Oldenburg, west of Bremen)
<Seveas> digitalmouse, yeah but that's not an official timezone name ;)
<digitalmouse> true true
<tonyyarusso> Is there a mailing list or another way to get a reminders of upcoming meetings e-mailed to me?
<digitalmouse> probably best to check often at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ under the respective sections.  someone could probably make an RSS feed that generates reminders.
<digitalmouse> or integrate a calendar fuction into the wiki
<tonyyarusso> Either one would be appreciated.
<digitalmouse> a good point to bring up at a future meeting me-thinks
* digitalmouse  away... lunch time!
<tonyyarusso> Sounds like a plan.
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 28 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 20:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<tonyyarusso> digitalmouse: Apparently I can get it as an iCal, just found that.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ogra> so how many people are we today 
<ogra> looks rather empty
<pips1> hiya
<ogra> hey
<pips1> just the two of us?!
<DanielC> I'm just observing.
<ogra> well, then it looks like its just the two of us and DanielC :)
<DanielC> :)
<ogra> ah
<DanielC> one more person, whoo hoo!!
<pips1> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey everybody
<cbx33> I won't be able to stay the entire meeting I fear
<ogra> well, i dont have much on the tech side today
<Hobbsee> hey?  DanielC hope you werent meaning me - i know nothing :P
<cbx33> but there will be minutes
<DanielC> :)
<cbx33> ogra I'm shocked :p
<ogra> i'm personally rather busy doing ubuntu merges, so there is no particular edubuntu work atm
<ogra> ltsp is merged with the modularization changes from debian
<cbx33> oh yeh, I forgot we were in merge stage now
<ogra> so development of new features will be way easier
<cbx33> ogra, excellent
<cbx33> that is great tech news
<ogra> and ltsp is fully translateable now
<ogra> thanks to debain as well
<ogra> *debian too
<cbx33> cool
<ogra> we wrote a good bunnch of specs in paris
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
<ogra> ^^^^ list of them
* bimberi listened (literally) to one of the sessions
<DanielC> *click*
<ogra> two are already approved, the others in review
<cbx33> bimberi, cool
<DanielC> ltsp dhcpd.conf :  good man!
<ogra> most important is that we will have an autoconfigured dchpd in our next release after install ;)
<cbx33> heheh yeh
<bimberi> \o/
<ogra> will add one additional question to the install though :/
<ogra> but better than the current status
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> very beneficial in my opinion
<ogra> additionally the local device implementation is approved
<cbx33> thats also great
<DanielC> Definitely a good improvement.
<cbx33> ogra, is ther eany news on local apps?
<ogra> and most important news from the summit....
<cbx33> that's something I'm very keen on
<ogra> ltsp.org will merge with our ltsp over the next two releases
<DanielC> meaning?
<ogra> so there will only be one ltsp 
<DanielC> cool
<ogra> based on our work 
<pips1> wow
<cbx33> that's great news
<ogra> merged with the features they have 
<DanielC> What are the current differences between ltsp.org and what edubuntu has?
<pips1> big applause
<DanielC> clap clap clap clap
<ogra> see the ltsp-convergence spec
<flint> ogra I was talking to the fedora folks, and they and Eric Harrison had a different story...
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> the incidents listed there must be resolved over the two next releases
<flint> ogra, what is the url of the ltsp-convergence spec?
<DanielC> ogra, ltsp-convergence doesn't have any information.
<DanielC> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-convergence
<pips1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LtspConvergence
<ogra> my personal next step is to establish the ltsp-daily-image-tarballs infrastructure
<ogra> thats a prerequisite
<cbx33> yeh
<DanielC> pips1, thanks
<ogra> then it will be very easy to install ppc chroots on i386 from the tarball ;)
<ogra> that makes multiarch easier then ever ;)
<cbx33> ogra, great !
<ogra> localapps were not discussed, see the fat-client spec for reasons ...
<cbx33> <ogra> well, i dont have much on the tech side today
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> we need a authentication mechanism in place first
<ogra> cbx33, :P 
<ogra> turns out to be more than expected ;)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's cool
<ogra> over all the spec side was the best we ever had wrt edubuntu on any conference
<cbx33> excellent
* pips1 checks ltsp-fat-clients
<ogra> i had amazing feedback from ltsp.org as well as from jonathan jerome rodrigo and jordan about the teamwork and community stuff that happened there 
<ogra> (i must admit i didnt go out with themm in the evenings to get the specs done)
<bimberi> ogra: it must have been good to have them there, more efficient
<ogra> flint, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs has the list of all specs
<ogra> bimberi, yes, it absolutely was
<pips1> ogra "teamwork and community stuff that happened there" ?
<ogra> way more than on other ubuntu conferences
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ogra, you work-a-holic you :p
<ogra> pips1, well, usually people are just busy working 
<flint> ogra, I had a chance to participate in a shoot out between k12ltsp and edubuntu.  I got shot. 
<ogra> and in the evenings you sit at the bar and slurp your beer ...
<ogra> but there was some edubuntu spirit this time
<pips1> flint, ?
<ogra> i dont know how to express it in words
<ogra> flint, so you switch to k12 now ? 
<flint> pips1, This thing called NELS... NorthEast Linux Symposium in Bethel Maine...
<flint> ogra, I suspect that Jeff will switch. 
<ogra> well, he'll get our ltsp anyway in april :)
<ogra> one way or the other :)
<pips1> flint, reasons?
<flint> ogra, it loads from 6 cd's (their bad) but it wipes us off the map.
<ogra> if he doesnt like the system i cant help it
<flint> ogra, you have a better meta-system, this fedora core k12 ltsp distro just needs to be emulated in all ways...
<ogra> i suspect rodarvus and richard will improve the edu situation beyond my tech skills a lot
* pips1 only understands 2% of what is being talked about
* DanielC thinks that pips understands 2% more than him
* rodarvus winks
<ogra> pips1, k12ltsp is the redhat based edu distro
<rodarvus> sorry, I arrived late (was on a phone call)
<pips1> could you be a bit more explicit for the benefit of the rest of us? :-)
<ogra> shipping the same stuff we do ... preconfigured ltsp edu apps etc
<ogra> they are the eduredhat
<flint> ogra, They have another symposium comming up at University of New Hampshire in July.  I want to present about the future of Edubuntu.
<ogra> while we are the edu-ubuntu
<flint> ogra, nicely put.  
<flint> ogra, they won the day - on merit!
<ogra> in fact the edubuntu idea comes from the founder of k12ltsp :P
<ogra> he created the spec for it in sydney
<flint> ogra, is that Eric Harrison?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> right, so this is some kind of sideshow of the "distro war"?
<ogra> i never saw it as a war
<flint> pips1, this is the best distro wins...
<ogra> we surely are in our early stages compared to k12
<ogra> but we are on place 52 on distrowatch ...
<flint> ogra, the issue is that strategically launchpad and the ubuntu methodology will win out, the bad news is when.
<ogra> so i guess our popularity will gain us more ground in the future
<spacey> hi / sorry i'm joining so late
<DanielC> This is sounding a lot like a distro competition.
<flint> ogra, we are in a very difficult box.  6 CD's is about a DVD.  When are we on a DVD?
<ogra> there is no competition in there 
<flint> ogra, i agree completely with Ollie.  This is all about technical merit.
<ogra> flint, we are 
<flint> ogra, I came late.  when and where?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/6.06/release/
<ogra> since the release already
<DanielC> Could someone then explain this deal about ltsp.org and edubuntu merging and the thing about edubuntu being more popular, and them being edu-hat and us being edu-buntu?
<ogra> it has only the contents of main though
<flint> ogra, I used 40 install disks I made of 6.06 and they were CD's.
<ogra> flint, well, why didnt you take the dvd :)
<ogra> its available since dapper development started
<ogra> but since we'll never ship a dvd it doesnt get much attention in advertisin 
<flint> ogra, this was 6 CD's of LTSP base, you needed this to do the install.  I do not need the universe.  have you ever loaded k12ltsp?
* digitalmouse returns from lunch
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<ogra> also most of our users arent even capable of downloading or using a dvd due to bandwith or tech (no dvd player) restrictions
<flint> I never had, 
<spacey> whats wrong with 1 cd
<spacey> instead of 6 or a dvd
<ogra> nothing :)
<flint> ogra, Olli, the features they had, and the silly thing worked out of the box with no patching!
<ogra> patching ? 
<flint> dhcpd3.
* digitalmouse reads with interest the talk of LTSP
<spacey> why would you need to patch dhcpd3?
<ogra> flint, did you see the specs ?
<flint> and then some...
<flint> ogra, I saw the result.
<ogra> edgy *will* work out of the box
<ogra> without touching dhcp configs
<ogra> dapper works ut of the box if you pick the right ip net on install
<ogra> so i really miss to see the problem here
<flint> ogra, I will be releasing a compelte document on this topic, based upon Jonathan's earlier work.  One of the chapters will be a comparison.  You are going to team with LTSP.org with is Jim McQuillan, which is good.  What about Eric Harrison?
<ogra> additionally it looks like Mithrandir is working on a liveCD that would make ltsp support possible
<ogra> so we even might ship a liveCD next release
<ogra> what about eric ? 
<flint> ogra, the man can package a damn fine distro. and the word is that he needs help.
<digitalmouse> ooo... a live ltsp cd.. neat
<ogra> one of his emplloyees is permanently in #edubuntu and even helps supporting people
<ogra> flint, i wont resign and work on a rpm based distro
<flint> ogra, he is a teacher, to my knowledge he employs no one.
<ogra> he's free to join edubuntu development and bring his ideas to us
<DanielC> What is this about working on an rpm distro?
<flint> ogra, I am completely behind you on that (rpm --nodep yech!)
<DanielC> Guys, I'm really not understanding what's going on.
<ogra> DanielC, k12 is redhat based
<DanielC> yes, I know that part...
<flint> ogra, actually fedora based and thus free...
<ogra> flint, so what are we discussing here, he knows we're here
<flint> gang I went to the races with our car and I got left in the dust.  that is my report.
<ogra> hes free to come over and make edubuntu k12edubuntu
<ogra> (even though i'd oppose the name ;) )
<DanielC> Could someone summarize what's going on?
<ogra> you said something different before
<ogra> you said eric needs our help
<ogra> we could need his help as well ... its a question of what we base on
<ogra> sooo
<flint> DanielC, I am mentioning that two distributions of K12ltsp were at the NELS conference in Bethel Maine.  Edubuntu did not triumph in comparison to K12LTSP.
<DanielC> flint: Ok, I'm slowly catching up...
<ogra> that was a lot tech stuff, i think we should do discussions afetr the meeting in #edubuntu rather
<flint> NELS has another conference in New Hampshire, and there is the NECC conference comming up.
<pips1> so flint, you are saying k12ltsp currently offers more out of the box and should thus be advanced, rather than redoing an ltsp (edu) distro on the base of debian/ubuntu?
<spacey> if there are some interesting points compared to other distro's it is more use if you write them up and send to list?
<ogra> yeha
<flint> ogra, Oliver, I spent a week thinking about this.  You have much on your shoulders, particularly management.  What can I do to help you make your product better?  The first thing I could think of was to tell you this.
<ogra> flint, i have two new colleagues now
<ogra> it should resolve as soon as we found our path, give us some tie to grow together 
<DanielC> Ok, thanks pips1 and spacey. I think I've caught up now.
<flint> ogra, I would propose that you duplicate my observations.  
<ogra> *time indeed
<spacey> ogra: who's new?
<cbx33> I'm popping back in, sorry to clarify, ogra did you mean a live cd that can boot onto an ltsp network?
<cbx33> or a live cd containing an ltsp root?
<cbx33> I'm thinking the former
<ogra> cbx33, nope a livecd with ltsp server
<spacey> cbx33: i think for installation
<cbx33> WOW
<ogra> it wont be very useable 
<cbx33> I would love Mithrandir forever
<spacey> ogra: i guess it could install as well then?
<ogra> i.e. you dont want to use more than one client actively
<ogra> spacey, indeed
<cbx33> ok sure
<ogra> the disk IO is way to slow on a cd
<cbx33> does our live cd support copying the entire cd to ram like knoppix
<Mithrandir> my use case is actually not ltsp, but rather "share this live cd" where the live cd has all the parts needed to netboot other machines.
<Mithrandir> cbx33: no.
<ogra> but well, we'll have a libe installer cd then
<Mithrandir> installing ltsp onto there should be quite easy, though.
<cbx33> Mithrandir, ok cool
<ogra> Mithrandir, which is a trivial small step away from using it for ltsp :)
<bimberi> sounds like what knoppix does?
<ogra> well, not as hackish i guess :)
<bimberi> lol, kk
<ogra> but similar, yes
<cbx33> my use case is..I have a very powerful server, own by an outside company, we're not lalowed to reinstall/open it, but we can't use it for what it was built
<Mithrandir> bimberi: knoppix is doing a bunch of the same stuff as we want to do, yes.  The difference is our live cd tries quite hard to not diverge from the distro as such.
<cbx33> so I was looking for easy options forme, and others to use it
<cbx33> for something useful
<ogra> the idea is to have something to easily demo ltsp with
<cbx33> ogra, exactly what I want it for
<ogra> and to be able to ship the livecd
<cbx33> I know every school in the city here has one of these boxes
<cbx33> and half of them don't use it
<ogra> currently we can only ship install because of the ltsp bits and the installer part for it
<cbx33> ogra, presumably this is going to mean even tighter space constraints
<ogra> not really
<ogra> we have far more space on the livecd due to the compressed filesystem
<cbx33> is it still planned for edgy to get rid of kdedu?
<ogra> i.e. the livecd ships 6 languages, the install cd only one
<DanielC> cbx33: what is kedu?
<ogra> cbx33, not if we dont find replacements
<ogra> which i dont see yet
<cbx33> DanielC, kdeedu - a lot of the education apps rely on kde libs
<ogra> we should target it for edgy+1
<cbx33> which are large
<cbx33> we want to replace with gnome apps to save space
<ogra> and find people writing the necessary apps in that time
<DanielC> cbx33: Ok, I know those. Like Kalzium and KStars.
<cbx33> DanielC, yes
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> porting is an option in some cases no?
<ogra> kstars is easily replaced 
<cbx33> celestia?
<ogra> but there is no such thing as kalzium
<cbx33> ogra, true
<ogra> cbx33, ever tried to port a Qt app to gtk ? 
<Riddell> ogra: are you splitting out kdeedu language packs?
<cbx33> ogra, you know about my gtk skills
<ogra> a rewrite is faster in most cases
<ogra> Riddell, i wanted, yes
<DanielC> What's the objective for removing them? Is it just to make the ISO smaller by removing KDE libs?
<cbx33> DanielC, yes to fit more stuff on
<DanielC> ok, thanks
<ogra> but for now i focus on xulrunner and we got 20MB for free through the seed clanup
<cbx33> so if you're up for writing some edu apps in gnome
<cbx33> go for it
<cbx33> ogra, good job
<ogra> so there might be enough space this time
<cbx33> ogra, we have a split kdeedu don;t we?
<ogra> we never started off with spare space into a dev cycle yet
<ogra> split ?
<cbx33> it's not the entire kdeedu
<pips1> ogra, as far as I understand, the kde edu apps are all bundled together, so while it is easy to install them in one go, it makes it impossible.. erm hard to de-install individual apps that aren't wanted...
<ogra> thats not true
<cbx33> what I'm thinking is, is it possible to write maybe a few apps to replace those in kdeedu as we go?
<ogra> there is a metapackage that pulls them all in
<ogra> we dont use it
<ogra> we only use the individual apps
<cbx33> for example if I wrote a replacement for kbrauch
<flint> ogra, would it be possible to do a kedbubuntu?
<cbx33> we could swap
<ogra> the biggest thing are the langpacks
<ogra> flint, sure it would, feel free to do it ;)
<pips1> so I *can* de-install individual kde edu apps in edubuntu via synaptic?
<highvoltage> sorry for being late, got stuck in a meeting at the bank
<ogra> pips1, indeed
<cbx33> hi Hawkwind 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 
<pips1> ogra, oic, ok, my bad
<cbx33> sheesh damn tab completion
<ogra> sooo, any other topics for tec ? 
<cbx33> is there the possiblity?
<cbx33> i mean is it worth
<ogra> what ? 
<cbx33> asking on ML or something for people to write some edu apps
<flint> ogra, I know my news is not good.  I am sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.  I had to stand there and take it from the k12 LTSP weenies. It hurt.
<ogra> sureit is
<DanielC> I'd like to understand this deal about ltsp.org and edubuntu merging.
<cbx33> some of the apps are so small
<cbx33> I bet we could have replacements by edgy
* pips1 reads http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow
<ogra> flint, i'm not worried about it and you should neither 
<ogra> flint, they have years of experience in the edu sector ... i dont have any beyond my edubuntu work ... but we have someone who will solve that in edgy 
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> so just trust him to get his job done ;)
<DanielC> Who do we have?
<ogra> yes
<DanielC> This is an example of my being lost.
<ogra> he starts mid of july
<ogra> i announced that last meeting :)
<DanielC> ok
<flint> ogra, is this Jane's husband?
<ogra> yes
<DanielC> ah
<DanielC> Ok, I'm catching up.
<ogra> he was educational lead of HP
<ogra> so i really think he'll get it right ;)
<DanielC> I hope he knows his stuff :)
<pips1> talking about years of experience, don't forget to mention the Skolelinux folk :-)
<highvoltage> i've met him a few times, he's a great guy.
<highvoltage> i'm sure he'll so great work for edubuntu.
<cbx33> me too
<ogra> me too :)
<ogra> so flint, dont worry it will all come together nicely over time
* cbx33 apologises for his lack of presense this week
<cbx33> been a bad week
<flint> ogra, I am going to bet on the future at my next presentation in New Hampshire.
<cbx33> but should be much better tomorrow
<cbx33> I'm going to email canonical about the BETT2007 show
<ogra> i wouldnt want to cope with skole yet, but i think edgy will be in a state to "compete" with k12
<flint> ogra, what is jane's husband's handle on irc?
<ogra> no idea
<jsgotangco> ummmm
<ogra> i havent met him yet
<jsgotangco> i thought the meeting was much later
<highvoltage> why is k12 better than edubuntu again?
<flint> ogra, gotcha...
<cbx33> highvoltage, it's not :p
<cbx33> it's a perception thing :p
<cbx33> hahah
<pips1> highvoltage, I also want to know... flint, shoot!
<ogra> highvoltage, because flint feels like ... after he had a "competition"
<cbx33> edubuntu rules supreme :p
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan, here is a partial feature list...
<flint> Features that they had that we did not included:
<flint> - worked out of the box, not patches
<flint> - plugged in a usb memory stick
<flint> - booted a client in 25 seconds
<flint> - had teacher tool.
<flint> - supported sound
<flint> - Booted a mac
<jsgotangco> cbx33: edubuntu is only a year old
<jsgotangco> dont be so blinded so much of short success =)
<ogra> flint, see the spec list its all on there
<cbx33> jsgotangco, yeh and look how far we've come already.  I'm not saying that we're better
<highvoltage> ogra: heh
<cbx33> I'm saying we have so much potential
<ogra> 10 mins left
<flint> ogra, I was absolutely astonished at their product.
<jsgotangco> cbx33: it'll happen if we have like at least 2 more developers
<ogra> DOCUMENTATION
<ogra> any news here 
<highvoltage> flint: there's also a lot of things that k12-ltsp don't have. i have 200 schools that say they like edubuntu more than k12-ltsp ;)
<cbx33> there was the edubuntu cookbook meeting?
<ogra> (lets discuss competition later in #edubuntu)
<highvoltage> right.
<jsgotangco> ogra: none on my side, have been busy with g-a-i
<ogra> any intresting news fromm the cookbook ? 
<flint> highvoltage, I owe you a draft of this document I have based off the tuxlab book.  It is still beta.
<cbx33> ogra, there was a meeting
<highvoltage> flint: ok
<pips1> well, I think it's time that we get that glossary for edubuntu.org... jsgotangco what's g-a-i ?
<cbx33> and minutes were posted on the ml
<ogra> well, did anyone attend ? 
<ogra> ok
<jsgotangco> pips1: gnome-app-install
<cbx33> i attended the first
<flint> highvoltage, I think I still have your email.  i will send it to you after the meeting.
<ogra> ARTWORK 
<ogra> we need an artteam leader
<flint> ogra, I actuall LIKE the artwork we got!
<cbx33> AliasVegas is considering
<ogra> mark wants that every derivative has a leader of the artteam to make decisions etc
<flint> ogra, fedora really sucked in this way.  They defaulted to purple bubbles this did suck.
<cbx33> I think she's a little worried by the fact she hasn't been inthe community
<ogra> and works with the ubuntu artteam 
<cbx33> ogra, is there the possibility of creating job specs for some of these people
<ogra> cbx33, well, most of the art guys in ubuntu havent either
<rodarvus> who are the active artists of Edubuntu?
<ogra> for a volunteer job ... well
<cbx33> well, yeh
<ogra> rodarvus, AliasVegas
<flint> ogra, would it be right to say that the art leader is an inspired job?
<flint> :^)
<highvoltage> i think cbx33 has a point... perhaps 'job specs' for people who volunteer isn't a bad idea.
<ogra> rodarvus, highvoltage does some stuff sometimes 
<ogra> and me
<rodarvus> Ubuntu and Kubuntu will have part time artists working on Edgy
<highvoltage> it makes it easier for people to understand what's expected of them.
<cbx33> at least then they know what is expected
<cbx33> highvoltage, exactly
<rodarvus> plus, as ogra mentioned, a edgy artwork release team
<ogra> rodarvus, i doubt we'll get that in the bugdet (yet)
<cbx33> i think if AliasVegas knows what's expected she'll be far more likely to get involved
<flint> ogra, artists have know to become inspired for a price... (I am no artist :^)
<rodarvus> ogra, yes, that was going to be my next comment :)
<rodarvus> I'd really love to have at least a part time artist doing stuff for Edgy on Edubuntu
* jsgotangco sits in a corner and just watches the conversation
<ogra> cbx33, leadint the artteam ... communication with the ubuntu artteam 
<ogra> thats the job
<rodarvus> meaning - I'll ask either mark or richardw asap
<rodarvus> thats why I asked about the active artists on our team
<highvoltage> it would be funny if his nick is actually RichardW :)
<ogra> rodarvus, AliasVegas did the alternative wallpaper we ship
* pips1 looks at jsgotangco who is really good at making a point of sitting in the corner
<pips1> ;-)
<rodarvus> ogra, do you know if he (she?) is a professional designer
<flint> rodarvus, do you have any inclinations to do this art thing?
<ogra> she's a great artist and took our critics and made an awesome wallpaper out of it
<rodarvus> flint, no
<cbx33> ogra, you know we've had a big family stuff, hence she hasn't had a lot of time to think about it
<rodarvus> my wife is an acomplished designer, though :D
<cbx33> but I'm pretty sure she'd love to do more 
<cbx33> she's a very creative person
<flint> rodarvus, I agree with you on this :^)
<rodarvus> we can try to bribe her for the job, but no promises :D
<jsgotangco> pips1: im sitting in this corner because i have no clue as to what is happening here at the moment so Im just going to listen here
<ogra> rodarvus, she's professional artist (and cbx33's wife)
<rodarvus> I really loved our wallpaper, btw
<ogra> the chalkboard or the homies ?
<rodarvus> cbx33, kudos to your wife :)
<cbx33> I'll pass that on
<cbx33> it was funny
<cbx33> because
<ogra> ok, we're out of time 
<pips1> rodarvus, she did the homies
<flint> rodarvus, art won us the day in comparison to K12LTSP.
* highvoltage > #edubuntu
<cbx33> she did the first wallpaper draft 
<cbx33> because she thought no one would like it
<ogra> any community/management tasks 
<cbx33> she was totally shocked when every loved it
<rodarvus> sorry, I don't understand what 'homies' means in this context
<ogra> or any other business ? 
<cbx33> ogra, nope
<ogra> rodarvus, the laternative wallpaper
<rodarvus> oh
<flint> highvoltage, mail to you in a minute.
<pips1> homies short for home boys
<rodarvus> now I get it, thanks :)
<ogra> ok, going once
<highvoltage> rodarvus: short for 'homeboys', as in, slang for 'ganster friends'
<ogra> going twice
<pips1> highvoltage, heh
<rodarvus> wait
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> meeting adjourned, thanks everybody
<ogra> oops
<pips1> wait
<ogra> rodarvus, speak up
<pips1> website?
<rodarvus> I'd like to propose a (unnoficial?) announcement for request for people to take part on artwork for Edgy
<ogra> what about it ? 
<ogra> rodarvus, just mail edubuntu-users :)
<rodarvus> and to have someone officially regarded as responsible, etc
<highvoltage> flint: ok :)
<rodarvus> will do it
<rodarvus> just wanted to hear from you first if it is ok to do so :)
<pips1> rodarvus, you might want to draft those requirements for artwork volunteers then?
<ogra> rodarvus, note that AliasVegas has contributed heavily and reacted very good on feedback from the community, she's the one we have experience with ...
<ogra> thast a big plus imho ...
<ogra> indeed that doesnt show her management skills ... which are required for a teamleader
<pips1> highvoltage, cbx33 how is your time looking for website work?
<rodarvus> ogra, right, I agree
<rodarvus> ogra, whoever is appointed for this task, will need lots of feedback from us (developers)
<ogra> and from the community :)
<ogra> they are the users that have to live with the artwork for 6months :)
<cbx33> pips1, not too bad
<cbx33> <#edubuntu
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> meeting ends here -------------------------------------------
<ogra> thanks everybody 
<pips1> oki
<cbx33> you stole that ogra :p
<ogra> hehe
<digitalmouse> interesting stuff ogra, thanks
<jenda> rodarvus: BTW, congratulations on your membership ;)
<ogra> flint, do you come over ?
<rodarvus> jenda, thanks :)
<flint> ogra, right now...
<rodarvus> I'm still waiting for membership on Edubuntu Members ;)
<rodarvus> but that will have to wait for a Edubuntu Council meeting] 
<ogra> rodarvus, nope
<jenda> hehe
<rodarvus> no?
<ogra> thats included in ubuntu membership ;)
<rodarvus> oh
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> edubuntu-members is a member of ubuntu-members ;)
<rodarvus> so no explicit edubuntu-membership for me? :)
<ogra> not needed
<rodarvus> meh
<ogra> i'll just approve you so you can get your edubuntu.org mailaddress
<jenda> ogra: wouldn't that make eduubuntu-membership imply ubuntu-membership, but not otherwise?
<ogra> jenda, well, there is no need to prove your prerequisites a second time 
<jenda> OK ;)
<ogra> if you are in ubuntu-members you are valid for membership regardless if in edubuntu-memebers or kubuntu-members
<jenda> ogra: come to speak of it, how is it with ubuntu.com email addys?
<Riddell> s/valid for/have/
<jenda> you are have? ;)
<ogra> Riddell, you are not automatically in that teams
<ogra> and i.e. the mail stuff only works for team members
<jenda> wouldn't really make sense for every ubuntu member to be an edubuntu member...
<ogra> exactly
<highvoltage> pips1: sorry, i thought the meeting was over
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> pips1: i just upgraded the drupal version again two days ago
<pips1> highvoltage, great
<rodarvus> highvoltage, well, it is, actually
<jenda> ogra: would you happen to know about the ubuntu.com email addresses?
<ogra> jenda, they should just work if you are an approved member
<ogra> through launchpad
<jenda> oh, does it forward automatically?
<jenda> wow, really ;)
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 22:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 19:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<digitalmouse> greetings programs! :)
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 28 Jun 15:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu
<mindspin> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<GazzaK> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 28 Jun 20:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu
<GazzaK> thats cool
<jenda> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 28 Jun 15:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 28 Jun 22:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 28 Jun 21:00: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<matthewrevell> evening
<GazzaK> evening
<thechitowncubs> Good afternoon :)
<matthewrevell> :)
<bimberi> '(early) morning :)
<Bilange> hi! (for simplicity's sake :)
<matthewrevell> Bilange: Good idea!
<mindspin> ;-)
<matthewrevell> hi nixternal 
<Klaidas> good evening :)
<matthewrevell> Klaidas: hi
<nixternal> jenda: it seems one of my clients has gotten bit by the root of bug #1...i will be about 10 to 15 minutes yet...go ahead and get rolling...i will pick back up when i get finished here
<nixternal> sorry.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<nixternal> bbiaf
<jenda> haha ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Howdy
<jenda> OK, Ubugtu has rung the gong already.
<matthewrevell> :)
* nixternal is RichJohnson btw
<nixternal> bbiaf ;)
<thechitowncubs> Ha
<matthewrevell> jenda: You chairing?
<jenda> Strangers from distant lands... and all that jazz. We have now gathered here on the first meeting of the Marketing Team, at least for a long time. There are many people present who each have their own history of participation in the MT. Some have been working long on the ubuntupeople.com forum, others have dwelt on the mailing list - some are quite new and joined the team first right here on IRC. We have many issues on the agenda, which you can
<jenda>  see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
<jenda> matthewrevell: we'll see ;)
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: evening
* dotwaffle tips hat at matthewrevell 
<jenda> Mr. T pities the foo who missed my opening speech
<matthewrevell> jenda: roftl
<jenda> The first point on the Agenda is: What are the Marketing Team's objectives?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Okay, may I suggest that we agree to discuss objectives on the list rather than here, this evening?
<matthewrevell> It's a rather big topic
* jenda thinks this point is too general to dicuss here
<jenda> yep
<jenda> :)
<matthewrevell> :)
<matthewrevell> Any objections?
<jenda> Anyone interested in this subject, please have a look at the MT wiki and think of what you'd like to see there.
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> sold
<jenda> Next point:
<jenda> How the team communicates and works.
<_sara> can we get a forum on the ubuntuforums
<ompaul> jenda, it would be nice if there was a url in the channel 
<jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<jenda> sorry
<matthewrevell> _sara: Do you prefer forums to the mailing list?
<jenda> _sara: the opinion has been voiced that it isn't necessary.
<_sara> sometimes
<jenda> We have the wiki, the list, LP and IRC
<ompaul> how to bind that we have 
<_sara> but it might not be necessary now that I really think about it
<dotwaffle> I find mailing lists good, but only if there is a searchable mailing list archive. Forums are all well and good, but it leads to people giving short answers instead of structured thinking.
<jenda> And to date, the forum has only caused resource fragmentation
<jenda> The list has an archive.
<Bilange> at the very least, please make a sticky thread on the ubuntuforums somewhere linking to our websites/mailing list and so forth
<jenda> Link will be added to the wiki
<mindspin> i agree with dotwaffle
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: Possibly. My main objection to a forum is that all the other Ubuntu teams use the official lists, which mean that our official list is easy to find.
<Bilange> just to make sure we have some visibility to the newcomers
<jenda> Bilange: check
<dotwaffle> jenda: Yes, but it's not easily searchable for references - personally my mailing lists get purged every 14-28 days (depending on thread activity)
<jenda> Bilange: noted
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: lists.ubuntu.com has archives
<jenda> Anyone have experience with searching the list?
<dotwaffle> matthewrevell: are they searchable? as in query style?
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: Sorry, I don't know.
<ompaul> maybe we should ask for that "feature" if it does not exist
<bimberi> if not, it can be arranged surely
<jenda> Exactly.
<GazzaK> can the mailing list be intergrated into a forum?
<matthewrevell> GazzaK: There are issues with that. It doesn't always work so well, either technically or culturally
<dotwaffle> Let's just remember that forums are just a web version of mailing lists, and are harder to manage as you then can't see the flow of the thread and stub out offtopic comments through ignorance rather than active pruning.
<jenda> Is there anyone with a good argument against a searchable archived mailing list being a full replacement for the forum?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Not from me.
<mindspin> newcomers
<jenda> newcomers...
<matthewrevell> mindspin: In what way?
<Bilange> otherwise, there should be a dirth google trick working, as in "inurl:ubuntu-marketing search_words domain:lists.ubuntu.com" or something similar
<Bilange> s/dirth/dirty
<jenda> mindspin: I think spreadubuntu could offer a friendly enough interface for marketing team newcomers.
<mindspin> newcomers sometimes shrugg when it comes to mailinglists
<matthewrevell> mindspin: It took me a long time to realise UbuntuPeople was used for marketing team stuff. The mailing list is kinda the obvious choice for newcomers.
<matthewrevell> mindspin: Because that's what the other teams use.
<mindspin> I absolutely favour the mailinglist
<bimberi> There should be one place where what the team is doing is communicated.  A mailing list is the best place (imo).  By all means have other "forums" (irc, webforums) but no decisions/initiatives should be considered 'official' until communicated on the list.
<jenda> matthewrevell: agreed.
<mindspin> we should deal with newcomers
<jenda> When I joined ubnutupeople.com, I thought it was a fan site.
<_sara> me too
<matthewrevell> mindspin: What, in that they don't like mailing lists?
<jenda> bimberi: agreed
<_sara> newcomers just don't know about them, so we need a repository of info on how to join the team
<mindspin> telling them to join the list and that it doesn't hurt ;-)
<jenda> spreadubuntu might become the first stop for new user marketeers.
<matthewrevell> _sara: Agreed that it needs to be as easy as possible to join the list. I'd say it's easier to find out about the list, particularly for existing Ubuntu people, than a forum.
<coopster> jenda: spreadubuntu should have both a newbie friendly press-release type description of the marketing team and contact info, and a link to the list search
<matthewrevell> mindspin: Yeah, a pain free guide would be ideal. Stick me down to write one, unless anyone else would prefer to.
<jenda> the MT wiki should provide a fairly usable interface as well. It lists all the communications on the top.
<jenda> coopster: we'll get to SU
<ompaul> we have a mailing list, we had a forum it was not integrated into the mailing list, it does not exist, we have a few people if they all split across the two existing interactive media that we have (irc and mail) and don't have a way to bind the conversation then there is a serious issue in terms of what we should do.
<jenda> matthewrevell: I'm writing it down as your job ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: superb
<ompaul> now if you want to consider adding to that mix 
<ompaul> you split the message 
<coopster> jenda: well, seems relevant in that SU can be the easy to navigate intro to how to join the mailing list, and would work well with just using the wiki and ml for official chatter
<ompaul> as for searchable email, the current email list for 6 months is 1 meg in total download 
<matthewrevell> ompaul: Yeah. Irc is great for meetings, brainstorming and generally getting to know each other. The ML is best for thrashing out real business, outside of meetings. IMO.
<jenda> coopster: it's the next point on the agenda
<bimberi> matthewrevell: exactly
<jenda> matthewrevell: +1
<matthewrevell> \o/
<matthewrevell> :)
<ompaul> coopster, the wiki is less of a chatter place but a place to "store collective wisdom" 
* nixternal is back!!!
<Bilange> actually, the ubuntupeople has a good point: since I joined in the middle of threads/idea, it was way easier than on the ML to "scroll back" and read from the start
<coopster> ompaul: agreed, bad term
<jenda> welcome, nixternal. We postponed the first point on the agenda (ie. moved to the list)
<nixternal> i seen...good idea because it is a big one ;)
<matthewrevell> Bilange: That's an issue, but I believe that the benefits of using the official list outweigh that. We can point newcomers to the archives, in a friendly way.
<nixternal> gobby or #ubuntu-marketing would be a better alternative for drafting objectives
<matthewrevell> nixternal: I'd say the bulk of the work has to be done on the list, to give everyone the chance to contribute
<nixternal> that too
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Deciding on wording can be done in gobby tho'
<Bilange> matthewrevell, in this case, we're missing an important feature, sticky/most important threads are going to be lost in the rest, unless we rely on the main wiki page or something to point newcomers to those important threads
<bimberi> Bilange: yes, that's what the wiki should be for
<jenda> Bilange: most important threads and results should be outlined in the wiki
<jenda> A special place for that.
<jenda> I'm noting this.
<GazzaK> unless someone maintains a FAQ/Top Mails list?
<matthewrevell> Bilange: Hmmm. I think sticky threads work for chat forums, and the like, but people get blind to them.
<dotwaffle> Bilange: The alternative is to write a primer and a monthly "newsletter" psoted to the wiki saying whats been going on. Then people can feel better acquainted with the data before joining the discussion.
<bimberi> nothing is sticky, till it's on the wiki :P
<matthewrevell> bimberi: Ha :)
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: Nice idea.
<matthewrevell> GazzaK: Also nice idea.
<jenda> dotwaffle: I don't think it needs to be monthly
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle, jenda: Just kinda updated as and when necessary, yeah?
<jenda> A special wiki page with outlines of what went on on the list is good enough.
<matthewrevell> brb
<Bilange> dotwaffle, you just gave me an idea. Ive seen on some newsgroup on the net a bot sending the same "welcome" message once every month/two weeks, to make sure newcomers has some starting point
<matthewrevell> back
<Bilange> maybe this could be applied on our ML?
<dotwaffle> jenda: it needs to be frequent - so that if one hasn't been made in say... 2 months, it calls for one to be made nonetheless.
<jenda> Bilange: technical detail
<jenda> dotwaffle: OK
<matthewrevell> Surely ad hoc is better? With most recent stuff at the top, blog-stylee
<jenda> OK
<Bilange> jenda, are you saying its impossible due to lack of resources?
<jenda> I think this is decided.
<dotwaffle> Not really editions of the publication, more of an updating of the recently discussed topics, what to know etc.
<jenda> Bilange: I'm saying it's not the focus now - it's easy to add at any time.
<matthewrevell> jenda: Yeah?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Sorry, meant to type more before hitting enter
<jenda> hehe
<matthewrevell> Is everyone happy to go with a mailing list, using the wiki to offer a route into the important stuff?
<jenda> OK, lemme sum this up so we can move on.
<mindspin> yup
<Bilange> matthewrevell, sure
<bimberi> matthewrevell: +1
<jenda> yep
<nixternal> quick question...are we following the agenda in order or no?  did we go OT?   ;)
<jenda> nixternal: we postponed the frist, this is the second.
<Bilange> nixternal, what agenda? the bullet list on the MT/Meeting wiki page?
<jenda> I believe we should not discuss the CC now - please read my note on the agenda and comment
<nixternal> i thought the 2nd was "unify the team & achieve cc approval"
<jenda> Bilange: yes
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Got the first bit sorted :) 
<jenda> nixternal: that's what we're discussing, without the CC
<nixternal> roger that
<jenda> agreed?
* nixternal sits back down ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Can you explain briefly...
<coopster> jenda: i agree.  any member list we have right now needs to be pruned to only the active members
<matthewrevell> jenda: ...what the process of becoming an official Ubuntu team is?
<jenda> explaing what?
<jenda> ah
<jenda> matthewrevell: no i can't, haven't studied it.
<jenda> Oh yes
<jenda> thanks coopster, wouldda forgat
<matthewrevell> jenda: AFAIK you have to show quite a lot before even applying.
<ompaul> matthewrevell, it appears you do a job of work, you hand your needs to the CC and it goes forward from there
<jenda> matthewrevell: I don't plan to apply any time soon
<matthewrevell> ompaul: Cool.
<nixternal> are we not an official ubuntu team?  we have LP, wiki, and members with Ubuntu support... ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: No, I tihnk we need to really prove what we can do first.
<jenda> Let's not discuss that please - it's not important for the work we do.
<jenda> matthewrevell: yes
<matthewrevell> jenda: No?
<jenda> We do what we can
<bimberi> nixternal: i guess improving, formalising communication is part of that process
<ompaul> jenda, there are several ubuntu members in the MT - getting it rubber stamped would not be too hard 
<jenda> ompaul: once there is some results
<jenda> coopster reminded me of an important point.
<dotwaffle> Let's find out what we're doing before we get ahead of ourselves :)
<jenda> Does everyone agree with member-list pruning?
<ompaul> jenda, we have a need, there is a mission, we have goals, and you can't have a distro team after you do the first release 
<nixternal> +1 dotwaffle
<ompaul> :-)
<mindspin> yup the membersilt thing
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: It's good to know what we're aiming for :)
<coopster> ompaul: i would think, results or no, having official team status is a plus, and we should do that provided it doesnt distract us from doing the things that make the results
<_sara> yeah for the  member list pruning
<matthewrevell> coopster: we won't get official status without results. Anyway, let's move on :)
<coopster> k
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu
<jenda> And does everyone agree with removing the wiki member list?
<dotwaffle> what are the issues with the memberlist at the moment? Dud members?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Yes
<jenda> I'll contact all the people on it and ask them to join LP
<bimberi> jenda: yes, go with Launchpad
<jenda> dotwaffle: 70 of them
<dotwaffle> jenda: I see. Ok. 
<jenda> OK, any objections?
<mindspin> yup launchpad
<matthewrevell> jenda: no
* jenda is waiting for a yes ;)
<jenda> OK
<nixternal> whoa
<jenda> settled.
<nixternal> jenda..sorry
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> can't you put a person as inactive?
<jenda> yes
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> go on then
<nixternal> ;)
<jenda> but that wouldn't really serve the purpose, me thinks... to have 70 inactive 'members'
<nixternal> if you don't get the response..put them inactive..don't delete just to be safe maybe
<jenda> Next point: SPREADUBUNTU
<nixternal> k
<nixternal> go go go
<jenda> nixternal: ok
<dotwaffle> jenda: clarify statement please
* nixternal just spread some Ubuntu
<bimberi> hopefully becoming inactive sends an auto-email
<mindspin> jenda :are you talking about team members or mailing list subscribers?
<jenda> I created a very, very rough plan of what I think SU should look like
<jenda> bimberi: I'll send manually
<jenda> http://crashhosting.com/Spreadubuntu-060628-jenda.odg
<_sara> what is a odg file
<dotwaffle> Open Document - OO.o will open
<jenda> Excuse the quality, it's my first and was very quick
<imbrandon> open document 
<jenda> OD Graphics
<bimberi> jenda: i'd call that a final myself :P
<jenda> We need someone to create the website, and then we can work on the content. I think I can do a large part there of myself - it's just writing.
<nixternal> umbrella ;)
<jenda> (by which I mean anyone can work on it just as easily)
<nixternal> jenda: i can do writing if needed
<ompaul> jenda, from an accessabilty perspective more contrast :-) other than that I would shrink it to fit on a sheet of paper ;-)
<jenda> nixternal: great
<coopster> jenda:  i would think "donate" is a good thing to branch off of "What can I do?"
<jenda> ompaul: please hush ;)
<jenda> ompaul: that's a 10 minute sketchup
<mindspin> what should it look like? 
<jenda> just to communicate what I mean.
<jenda> mindspin: it should look great ;)
<dotwaffle> I feel thre key points need to be addressed: 1) Getting people to spread the disks - possibly talk to a PC magazine or something? 2) Getting people to create stalls at computer fairs etc 3) Possibly get a feature done about Ubuntu in a major paper in each country...
<matthewrevell> I know we agreed to talk about general team objectives on the list, but I do think we need some discussion of what we hope we'll achieve with SU. it may seem obvious but there's no harm in discussing it.
<mindspin> i mean Ubuntu-like (keep CD in mind)
<jenda> Anyway - I'd like to see several inputs from several people. Any volunteers within the team?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Sure thang
<jenda> dotwaffle: those are the particular points to be described within.
<jenda> OK
<dotwaffle> jenda: ok, we should address points of focus individually now, then revise on the ML.
<dotwaffle> jenda: sure.
<jenda> I"ll paste what I said before to matthewrevell and ompaul in PM
<mindspin> ok I could give a hand for html/CSS stuff, but I'm not really good in graphics and such
<jenda> SU should have the two basic parts you see on the picture
<jenda> mindspin: noted
<jenda> That implies two basic goals:
<jenda> <jenda> To welcome a new user who has just started using and loving ubuntu
<jenda> <jenda> To offer to a user, who has decided to spreadubuntu, all that is needed to successfully do so locally.
<Bilange> same as mindspin, plus some basics in PHP/MySQL. IANAA (i am not an artist) though :)
<jenda> noted
<mindspin> testimonials should be on the frontpage
<thechitowncubs> I would love to help with graphics for spread ubuntu
<mindspin> fine
<bimberi> we could ask the Artwork Team for input
<matthewrevell> bimberi: +1
<GazzaK> And I will and am trying to spead knowledge in my local community
<jenda> The idea is that people are best basic spreaders soon after they fall in love with Ubuntu
<jenda> bimberi: yes, that was the plan.
<jenda> mindspin: not sure about that, but it can be adjusted.
<jenda> thechitowncubs: noted.
<nixternal> thechitowncubs: help out Ubuntu Chicago while your at it ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Is the idea to target new users, then?
<mindspin> I think its a good welcome when you see you can share "the experience"
<ompaul> http://www.freedos.org/
<dotwaffle> A lot of canadians that I know found ubuntu not through normal channels, but in fact from Leo Laporte pimping it on Call For Help, a tech show in the US.
<ompaul> sorry wrong place
<jenda> matthewrevell: the idea is provide a DIYM interface
<jenda> matthewrevell: which has an easy entry point for new users
<jenda> You should be able to point "what is ubuntu" people to spreadubuntu.org
<dotwaffle> is .org the best solution?
<jenda> hoping that in a month, one in every fifty of them will think of convincing his family of installing the system, and the school in the next month.
<dotwaffle> a .com should redirect there if possible.
<coopster> dotwaffle: afaik we have .org and .com
<jenda> dotwaffle: suggestions?
<jenda> dotwaffle: try spreadubuntu.com
<dotwaffle> all good, cheers
<jenda> and .net
<jenda> we don't have .org though.
<jenda> will have to ask Jane how that's going.
<mindspin> what about getting local domains which point to su.org
<jenda> noted.
<matthewrevell> jenda: What are your thoughts on getting people to spreadubuntu.org? 
<ompaul> jenda, spreading - is one thing - what is, is done rather well on www. and how to use is done on docs/help/wiki 
<ompaul> mindspin, na fragmentation 
<jenda> ompaul: we won't go through how to use on SU
<matthewrevell> Surely Ubuntu.com is the main destination, so assuming it's the right place for them to be, how do we get people to go to SpreadUbuntu?
<mindspin> when i type verbreite ubuntu.de and will be linked to su.com where's fragmentation?
<dotwaffle> matthewrevell: face to face referral
<ompaul> jenda sorry I was reacting to: <jenda> You should be able to point "what is ubuntu" people to spreadubuntu.org <-- I now get your meaning there
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: And that's all? I'm not saying that's bad, just think it's important to have an idea.
<jenda> matthewrevell: that's secondary - if SU has a purpose and a form, pointing people there isn't a problem.
<jenda> mindspin: could be done.
<matthewrevell> jenda: But it is a problem :) It's *the* problem. 
<jenda> spreadubunutu should be localised.
<matthewrevell> It's not an insurmountable problem, though.
<jenda> matthewrevell: it's secondary, IMO.
<Bilange> graphically-wise: isnt it a bad idea to try to differ too much from ubuntu.com?
<jenda> As long as we have a target audience and relevant content, users shouldn't be a problem.
<ompaul> mindspin, the concept that spreadfirefox had initally - it had a really fast burn for a few months - it became a meme - and now has out lived its original meaning
<mindspin> that's what I meant too what about ubuntus CD
<matthewrevell> SpreadFirefox.com worked intitially because Firefox.com was nothing to do with the browser. So, it came up naturally in searches etc. The web and print are saturated with links to ubuntu.com.
<coopster> Bilange: i'd agree, sticking to the basic layout of ubuntu.com is a great framework to start from
<jenda> Bilange: not too much, but I want it to be easier - the front page.
<ompaul> matthewrevell, yeap but a "spread" thing is like you have to try this 
<Bilange> coopster, agreed :)
<jenda> ompaul: +1
<matthewrevell> ompaul: You mean it's spread by word of mouth?
<jenda> SU is the "you have to see this" type of site.
<jenda> matthewrevell: partly, yes.
<_sara> it has to be atractive to the eye
<jenda> Yes.
<Bilange> actually, I never had a reply from the ubuntu.com webmaster, and mailed him on june 2nd or something
<matthewrevell> jenda: Cool, fair enough. We have an answer - the primary way will be, for want of a better term, viral.
<dotwaffle> personally, I think the Ubuntu.com is too unfriendly to average joe, spreadubuntu.com needs to be more of a "cosy" way of introducing you to the ubntu install process, maybe with links to the LULU book and the PDF to print yourself, so that they are mollycoddled throughout the entire isntall process.
<jenda> matthewrevell: check.
<Bilange> my point is: im not sure if we can use "his" design on SU
<jenda> dotwaffle: not the install process, no.
<matthewrevell> I just wanna make sure we know, rather than assuming we all think we know and then fin dout we have different idea later :)
<coopster> dotwaffle: agreed
<ompaul> matthewrevell, a bit of that a bit of guerrilla marketing - so we pick a date ohh lets say Sept and we aim to hit the ground with it then
<jenda> dotwaffle: we would link to the docs where needed.
<jenda> It should introduce the user into what ubuntu is
<dotwaffle> jenda: not jsut the install, but the meaning behind what Ubuntu is, why it is good for you, why you should try it, and then HOW to do all this.
<jenda> and offer the first steps on a silver platter.
<jenda> dotwaffle: yes.
<dotwaffle> At the moment, Ubuntu.com is a very... Corporate affiar.
<jenda> yes
<bimberi> dotwaffle: and intentionally so
<jenda> spreadubuntu.org is meant to be user-aimed.
<chris-t4> Slogan: Do you Ubunutu?
<jenda> nice ;)
<dotwaffle> Specifically when they see "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS"... That's such a bad choice of title, IMO.
<jenda> Anyway, i believe this topic is exhausted.
<dotwaffle> Agreed.
<bimberi> jenda: +1
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: +1 for this type of user
<matthewrevell> jenda: No, hang on
<matthewrevell> :0
<matthewrevell> :)
<matthewrevell> Just a quick point
<ompaul> dotwaffle, it is entitled to be
<jenda> everyone listen to matthewrevell 
<jenda> ;)
<dotwaffle> i'm sure he'll be audioblogging it on lugradio at some point anyway ;0
<matthewrevell> Canonical have hired/are hiring a new webmaster. They're likely to be *very* busy, but it would be nice to ask silbs who this person is, so we can maybe have some involvement from them.
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: :-)
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> matthewrevell: I'll note this, but since it's new to me, I have nothing to comment on.
<Bilange> matthewrevell, of if this person is too busy, at least ask him/her permission to make a derivate work for out SU website
<matthewrevell> jenda: Cool, just wanted to raise it.
<Bilange> s/out/our
<ompaul> matthewrevell, they will be made known to all - as will the artists in residence 
* matthewrevell removes himself from the floor :-)
<jenda> OK - anything else to SU?
<coopster> matthewrevell: i would agree.  it can only help.  after we get SU up and running, i would imagine canonical would be more than happy to have a link to us, it's 'free' content for the,
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> done
<jenda> nekt
<jenda> The Ubuntu Magazine.
<_sara> my turn?
<jenda> _sara: you're up
* jenda sits down and relaxes )
<nixternal> ahh.. _sara =tikal....hey sara..sorry didn't know it was you
<dotwaffle> if everyone can hold off comment until it's all been explained to us first ;)
<_sara> We have a skeleton 
<_sara> WE ghave agree to amkle a theme oriented magazine and agree that the first issue is going to be on a general intor to ubuntu.
<_sara> amkle?
<nixternal> lol
<mindspin> make?
<jenda> heh ;)
<Bilange> is that make?
<jenda> _sara: please continue.
<bimberi> ah, well done mindspin and Bilange - i was struggling :)
<_sara> I feel that at this point in time we need to get someting out and the master TOc would finalized from that
<dotwaffle> I disagree - I think a magazine would be a bad idea. A regularly updated website yes, but a magazine relies on people readin from issue #1.
<jenda> _sara: one question - who else has been working on the magazine, and how for are you?
<jenda> dotwaffle: not true, IMO
* nixternal has
<bimberi> _sara: is this a physical publication?
<_sara> ok , we have some memebers nixternal, Kensendme, Jenda (of course) and others
<jenda> I only read issues #1 and #4 of the UWN
* jenda gulps
<jenda> more work for jenda? ):
<jenda> *:)
<_sara> we want ot have a html and a pdf magazine also
* dotwaffle adds his name to the list of people who have only read 1 or 2 editions of the UWN.
* bimberi doesn't see much space left with the Fridge and UWN
<matthewrevell> mgalvin: ping
<jenda> right - didn't we decide on a base html with exports to pdf and txt?
<jenda> matthewrevell: I was just gonna.
<_sara> ok maybe I need tro explain the diff
<matthewrevell> _sara: Where would this sit alongside Fridge, UWN? 
<bimberi> _sara: please
<matthewrevell> _sara: Ah :)
<Bilange> bimberi, dont you think the fridge is quite developer centric and not much end-user centric? I thought the UWN was here to fix that
<dotwaffle> why pdf? Why be contrained to a paper format? The web was developed to create something that is easier to sift through. In that respect, UbuntuGuide.org does pretty much the job of a magazine such as ComputerActive in Europe.
<matthewrevell> Hang on, let's let _sara tell us where this sits :)
<jenda> dotwaffle: please, that's a technicality.
<dotwaffle> ok, I'll be quiet ;0
<jenda> :)
<_sara> The UWN is targeted toward memebers that are already involved in ubuntu, developers. We want a magazine that would help people familiarize themselves with linux and ubuntu for desktop use
<_sara> pdf, some people like to print things out and read while on the bus or subway, spread ubuntu, 
<_sara> some members don't have internet access on their ubuntu 
<mgalvin> matthewrevell: hey guys, sorry i gotta run out for a bit :-/, is it quick?
<matthewrevell> _sara: Sounds like a good aim to have. Have you considered that it might be better to write articles for the publications that these people read already? (Assuming that's possible). It's big job to entice people to a magazine about something they're unfamiliar with.
* jenda pokes mgalvin 
<jenda> ah )
<mgalvin> :)
<GazzaK> +1 to pdf format
<matthewrevell> mgalvin: Just wondered if you'd be interested in the discussion of Ubuntu Magazine and how ti relates to UWN
<jenda> Let's please leave the technical details out for now (formats)
<matthewrevell> jenda: +1 We need to choose that after we know who's reading.
<bimberi> Bilange: yes, that's fair (held off responding to give _sara the floor)
<_sara> yeah we discuss that already, but we just could not find a magazine that has the level of graphical explanation taht we want
<jenda> matthewrevell: I believe the magazine could be read, for example, by SU-drafted newbies.
<mindspin> I agree with the idea of getting ubuntu into the regular press
<nixternal> OK. Here in Chicago we have "FREE" news stand/boxes. Usually you see music stuff, IT stuff, the Onion and what not in there for people to grab and read while on the train to the city. I want to stuff one full of Ubuntu if and when the time comes!!!
<matthewrevell> jenda: Cool.
<jenda> it has the same type of spirit - building an UBuntu hype :)
<matthewrevell> _sara: Right, cool. What sort of publications did you look at?
<mindspin> nixternal: kinda expensive on the long way...
<nixternal> FREE!!
<jenda> nixternal: sure, fund it ;)
<nixternal> the print is the only cost
<_sara> We are thinking sometinh like an Ubuntunized Tux magazine
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Let's chat about tha ton the ML, Mr Moneybags :-D
<jenda> -technicality-
<nixternal> my brother law owns his own print shop..so i could get a decent deal
<mgalvin> matthewrevell: i am very interested in it, sadly i have to run out for about an hour or 2, i will catch the log when i get back and comment on the -marketing list
<matthewrevell> mgalvin: Nice one!
<jenda> nixternal: noted - you should'nt have mentioned that.
<dotwaffle> Getting people to give away free CDs is one thing, but to print and distribute leaflets? it's easier for them just to say "goto spreadubuntu.com and click on the 'What's hot?' button". 
<nixternal> hahah
<_sara> yeah printing the magazine and hav ethe Loco treams distribut it with CD's
<nixternal> it is for meh
<nixternal> _sara: that is where i wanted to go with that..but didn't...thank you for stressing the LoCo point
<matthewrevell> Anyway, let's activate the "Let's not get ahead of ourselves" button :)
<dotwaffle> oh you mean pre-printed that we distribute?
<mindspin> that means localized magazines
<jenda> dotwaffle: +1
<_sara> yeah, but that is in the future, for now  a magazine that anyone can print
<_sara> Let me give you an example
<jenda> but - let's not discuss the technical details PLEASE
<matthewrevell> jenda: Such as printing?
<jenda> yes
<matthewrevell> Okay.
<_sara> ok lets talk about the content, The important part
<matthewrevell> I'm starting to think that might be the main differentiator of this, though.
<jenda> _sara: I'd like to keep the meeting very general.
<mindspin> In my view a magazine about a distro will not be read by joseph(ine) noob
<dotwaffle> I agree that it would be great to have a magazine like Linux U+D, Linux Format or Linux Magazine to promote Ubuntu, but that's very costly and requires editors etc that would have to give up a substantial amount of time.
<_sara> We aim to be more neewbie friendly
<dotwaffle> _sara: is there an analogue that we can have a look at to see what you mean?
<jenda> _sara: so - we should only go as far as the relationship with the fridge and UWN goes, the target audience - but not the content itself please. An ubuntu magazine meeting would be great for that.
<_sara> analogue?
<jenda> the tux mag, eg.
<jenda> <_sara> We are thinking sometinh like an Ubuntunized Tux magazine
<ompaul> jenda, that is a huge effort
<_sara> Jenda sure, We could expand on articles with the UWN
<jenda> ompaul: yes, we're smaller
<jenda> so the mag will be.
<ompaul> what I think would work great in this space is a simpler thing
<matthewrevell> _sara: really? UWN is more a "what's happening now in the ubuntu community" thing,.
<dotwaffle> _sara: sorry, an exmaple.
<_sara> The UWN had an article on , but a newbie might need more information
<dotwaffle> s/exmaple/example/
<jenda> I expect the mag to leech a lot, wherever possible.
<_sara> hold on
<jenda> THe SABDFL has expressly allowed leeching on his blogs ;)
<bimberi> yes, an example/mockup would help with understanding
<ompaul> one mag that is released with the s/ware release - it says what it is where you can get it - what exciting new stuff is in there and and how you can give it to others and it is legal
<_sara> The UWN had an article on TOmboy ( I think), but their explanation did not explained on how to use it
* Bonzodog suggest people take a look at Linux-Format for ideas on a mag
<bimberi> ompaul: goes a bit stale though (like the release :P)
<matthewrevell> bimberi: 
<matthewrevell> sorry
<ompaul> bimberi, that is the idea
<ompaul> bimberi, new one once ever 6 months
<ompaul> and continious job 
<matthewrevell> _sara: Okay, cool.
<mindspin> It should look like a eighties fanzine, cheap and selfmade it would be nice in concern with viral/guerilla marketing
<matthewrevell> _sara: So, this sounds like a magazine section to SpreadUbuntu, almost. Going for the same people.
<jenda> Anything else on the subject (in general?)
<matthewrevell> mindspin: You should add "not" after that :0
<ompaul> mindspin, that is so 20 years ago ;-)
<mindspin> hehe
<jenda> matthewrevell: spreadubuntu doesn't encompass everything, but it will cooperate.
<_sara> matthewrvell, yeah Jenda not for now I would send an e-mail concerning our next meeting
<matthewrevell> jenda: I'm talking in terms of the target audience
<mindspin> retro-look
<jenda> _sara: OK
<jenda> I consider the topic closed in...
<jenda> 3
<bimberi> having seen the discussion, i feel there _is_ room for such a thing.  If people have the time/energy then go for it
<matthewrevell> Let's continue the discussion on the mailing list.
<jenda> dan
<jenda> *damn
<jenda> :)
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> boom
<jenda> next?
<nixternal> How do we interact with Canonical, who is our Contact point?    simple...Jenda....we go through Jenda..he goes to Canonicall...chain of command is nice
<nixternal> next?
<jenda> wait...
<nixternal> ;)
<jenda> sorry
<jenda> just remembered one thing concerning LP
<dotwaffle> LP?
<nixternal> launchpad
<dotwaffle> opk
<dotwaffle> ok
<jenda> I set the team to give out 30 day memberships on the first time around. with year log renewed memberships. I'll explain why - then ask if anyone objects.
<dotwaffle> seems rational
<jenda> What we have now is oer 70 inactive members who just hang there.
<nixternal> htrsy ofrs
<nixternal> great idea LOL
<nixternal> fingers weren't home
<jenda> Now if someone joins, I don't want to go hunting them down to ask them if they really mean it.
<jenda> I'll just give them a month long membership and if they show up during that month - it gets renewed.
<_sara> makes sense
<matthewrevell> jenda: Does the renewal happen automatically, somehow?
<nixternal> +1
<jenda> Now a year is a very long time, so I think it's reasonable in order to prevent corpse stacking.
<_sara> +1
<jenda> matthewrevell: no, admins do that.
<bimberi> jenda: "show up" meaning?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Nice phrase.
<ompaul> that relys on you knowing they are there - if spread generates interest you will have a full time job hitting renew
<dotwaffle> bimberi: presumably contribute
<jenda> yes
<jenda> in some way
<matthewrevell> dotwaffle: Who defines a contribution?
<jenda> I don't think membership is a status of any sort
<jenda> it's only there to inform who works and who doesn't
<dotwaffle> matthewrevell: how about "something other than mindless chatter and idling"?
<bimberi> matthewrevell: exactly (again :) )
<jenda> matthewrevell: it's not defined, it is judged, by the admins of the team.
<_sara> How?
<jenda> if anyone disagrees with the decision of an admin, there are always places to complain
<matthewrevell> jenda: Well, it is defined, if only in the admin's brain sub-consciously :) My point, though, is that it's going to be difficult to know all and see all
<matthewrevell> jenda: Being practical, though, it sounds like a good idea.
<jenda> no one claims to do so.
<jenda> (see all)
<matthewrevell> +1
<matthewrevell> :)
<bimberi> actually it will encourage more communication - hopefully of quality
<jenda> I mean, if tikal tells me person A has shown up and written an article and wants to continue, it's a sure thing.
<jenda> Currently, the owner of the team is Corey Burger, and the two administrators are thechitowncubs and I
<matthewrevell> Cool, it sounds like a good way to avoid a meaningless list.
<_sara> ok, that way it works, more communication 
<jenda> that seems to be rather arbitrary - so I think we'll adjust that with regard to activity within the team.
<jenda> OK
<jenda> done, next
<bimberi> aww, i want a countdown </kidding>
<matthewrevell> Contact point/interaction with Canonical.
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> done?
<jenda> :)
<bimberi> \o/
<jenda> er... I have "* How can we work with Ubuntu Weekly News and The Fridge?"
<matthewrevell> jenda: Oh, sorry, yes
<jenda> Ok... I guess this one waits for mgalvin
<jenda> Canonical
<matthewrevell> :)
<matthewrevell> Okay, Canonical is recruiting a Communications Manager
<matthewrevell> See ubuntu.com/employment
<nixternal> UWN- we can contribute our idea, a-jenda...but everyone should try to contribute to UWN
<matthewrevell> One responsibility is marketing
<jenda> So far, jane has been the only thing I needed of Canonical, and she is interested in our activity.
<nixternal> im bad, as i only check out the fridge for meeting times and dates
<matthewrevell> Jane will be passing this sort of thing over to the new Comms Manager though, AFAIK, on a day to day basis.
<jenda> Oh right, @UWN - we will be writing updates to it about the team activity. I took that as my responsibility for the start.
<jenda> matthewrevell: I know, I envy the foo that gets that job </ot>
<matthewrevell> jenda: Oh yeah, dream job mate :)
<matthewrevell> Jane, as you say, is really interested in what we're up to.
<jenda> I think that solves our canonical problems for now, don't youthink?
<jenda> Any remarks?
<matthewrevell> Well, I wasn't thinking so much aobut who ... more what.
<jenda> ah
<jenda> I think that will pop up as needed.
<matthewrevell> I just think we should have a think, and discuss another time, about how we work with our friends at the big C.
<jenda> I think we should first get the first projects up and then show them we mean it ;)
<Bilange> how about another contact point in case Jane not contactable?
<matthewrevell> jenda: Fair point :)
<Bilange> (backup contact, or something)
<matthewrevell> bimberi: I think this new Comms Manager will fulfil the role.
<jenda> Bilange: think it's necessary? she's the COO
<jenda> matthewrevell: +1
<jenda> anything else?
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<Bilange> COO?
<bimberi> matthewrevell: er, ok
* jenda pokes the ones who fell asleep
<nixternal> chief operating officer
<jenda> ok... next?
<jenda> "How can we work with LoCoTeam teams to improve press coverage in non-English language media?"
<Bilange> nixternal, thanks :)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Now this is from Jane, so it nicely links up :)
<_sara> First, is ther ea list of Loco teams
* nixternal can't help there..as i speak english, and not good i must say ;)
<bimberi> _sara: yes, on the wiki ...
<jenda> I have very good experience with working in open formats (svg is great) to allow easy translations.
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<dotwaffle> jenda: I think first we have to specifiy where are most important battlelines must be drawn - one certainly is in the far east, another in Germany/France, probably another in Scandinavia. I think the South Americas will sort themselves out...
<jenda> Let's discuss the general issue please
<bimberi> ah, thanks nixternal
<matthewrevell> I see our role here as largely support to the loco teams
<jenda> What do we want the LoCo teams to do, apart from translating the material?
<nixternal> notice the Ubuntu-Chicago ;)
<_sara> Maybe we just need to get in contact with them and figure out what they might need or want
<matthewrevell> jenda: Contact local press that Canonical and the wider Ubuntu community can't reach, either because of language barrier or because they don't know about those outlets.
<nixternal> there is a LoCoTeam mailing list
<dotwaffle> _sara: We need to give them guidelines too though, what they ought to be doin
<Bilange> train the LoCo members so _they_, too, promote ubuntu in their local area?
<Bilange> train or give the proper tools, whatever you see fit
<matthewrevell> Bilange: This is more specifically about contacting local media. 
<dotwaffle> training is going to be hard, witht he physical barrier and all
<matthewrevell> Give support, rather than train
<bimberi> nixternal: no central one to my knowledge
<mindspin> there are definitely marketing/press activities in the several countries
<nixternal> there is one
<nixternal> i subscribe to the LoCo team list since I am in the process of creating #ubuntu-chicago
<jenda> bimberi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<jenda> oh, mailing list ;)
<jenda> yes there is.
<matthewrevell> So, shall we take this onto the mailing list? Basically, work out what we can offer them and perhaps establish a press contact for each country/language, similar to what gnome has
<bimberi> ah yes, loco-contacts
<jenda> OK, spreadubuntu is the source of DIY Marketing material
<_sara> yeah, we need to have  someone who speaks the language
<jenda> We want the LoCos to translate that material.
<mindspin> mailing list would be fine, I know some people here in germany who are on the list but not in the team
<nixternal> +1
<_sara> I think the transalationt eam would do that
<jenda> _sara: the LoCo's will provide that, we can't possible cater for all.
<_sara> I mean as a contact point
<jenda> I'm on the list, and am a member of the Czech LoCo team.
<matthewrevell> jenda: We want the locos to use the right material for the situation. It may be thta they produce material that feeds back into SpreadUbuntu.
<nixternal> i have spoken to other LoCo team leaders, and it seems they do a lot lf translation in their teams...so it might be a good idea to get them involved in translating it..unless we want to "hire" some translators ;)
<matthewrevell> But yes, SpreadUbuntu is a good place for this.
<jenda> matthewrevell: yes, but they don't do that specifically as loco teams (except perhaps testimonials)
<jenda> nixternal: we will hire from the locoteams - it is their interest and 'duty' to translate. Trust me ;)
<matthewrevell> Okay, I think we've got a general agreement that we like the idea. So let's flesh it out on the list.
<_sara> I am on the spanish translation team, and as far as I know we do all the spanish translation that ubuntu needs
<nixternal> jenda: +1
<jenda> matthewrevell: +1
<_sara> +1
<nixternal> +100
<jenda> :)
<jenda> done-doe
<jenda> Anything else regarding LoCo Teams?
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> splash
<jenda> * Decide how this affects the Marketing wiki pages.
<nixternal> wiki:   MarketingTeam <- main page...everything under it...i.e, MarketingTeam/Meetings....MarketingTeam/Members....stuff like that
<jenda> Agreed
<nixternal> +1
<dotwaffle> ++3
<jenda> the magazine and spreadubuntu have seperate pages
<nixternal> plus every other team does it that way ;)
<jenda> we'll fix that.
<matthewrevell> nixternal: Not so much structure, fo rhtis one. More: our pages are out of date, let's get em refreshed :)
<nixternal> yes jenda
* matthewrevell volunteers to work on them
<jenda> matthewrevell: yep
<nixternal> yes matthewrevell...tis why i am on the wiki team
<nixternal> ;)
<jenda> I'll work on SU
<matthewrevell> Cool, next?
<matthewrevell> :)
<jenda> Now in this regard, i need to step back a bit.
<jenda> Project Leaders
<jenda> We forgot that.
<jenda> So...
<matthewrevell> ?
<jenda> do we want/need project leaders?
* jenda says yes, we do.
* nixternal thinks so
* jenda prods the channel.
<matthewrevell> Hmmm ... yes, at the very least to champion each project.
<_sara> just for the sake of structure and organization
<Bilange> for the sake of spreading out the job, sure
<dotwaffle> I think jenda and matthewrevell know what they're doing, if we go for project leaders (and I suggest we do) then they would be my candidates of choice.
<_sara> definetly
<jenda> So - let me propose a project leader for the Ubuntu Magazine.
<jenda> Does anyone object to _sara leading it?
<nixternal> welll...there would be more then 2 projects..hence more then 2 project leaders
<bimberi> _sara: seems the natural choice from this meeting
<jenda> Does _sara want to lead the Ubuntu Magazine?
<nixternal> jenda: sara should lead it..she has been doing a hell of a job
<_sara> ok,
<nixternal> she motivates us ;)
<matthewrevell> _sara +1
<nixternal> +1
<jenda> Any objections can be brougt up later :)
<jenda> Till the end of the meeting ;)
<dotwaffle> how much is there left togo?
<jenda> _sara: You do have the CoC signed, right?
<jenda> dotwaffle: a bit
<nixternal> we need to work on creating projects b4 we talk about leaders though...but yes, for projects already created appoint away
<_sara> what is the CoC
<jenda> Code of Conduct
<mindspin> !coc
<_sara> not yet
<jenda> _sara: we can go through that after the meeting.
* digitalmouse realizes he missed most of the meeting :(
<_sara> ok
<jenda> You will need to sign the CoC ;)
<ompaul> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
* jenda pets ompaul, the ubotu of this meeting ;)
<matthewrevell> SpreadUbuntu has got to be Jenda, I'd say. I imagine the previous person running the SU side of things isn't returning
<ompaul> _sara, if your stuck signing it, contact me - on irc or ompaul @ ubuntu dot com and I will give you a dig out
<GazzaK> but to sign it you need a key, but this key is difficult to get if you know no other linux users/geeks :-(
<_sara> i got a key recently
<jenda> GazzaK: it doesn't have to be signed
<ompaul> GazzaK, same again
<nixternal> gpg --gen-key
* jenda 's key isn't signed.
* digitalmouse quickly updates himself regarding the magazine topic
<nixternal> follow along
<jenda> let's move along
<jenda> I'm willing to lead Spreadubuntu.
<jenda> Any objections?
<jenda> :)
<ompaul> nixternal, this aint the place - keys don't have to be signed - 
<matthewrevell> jenda: None here
<mindspin> nope
<ompaul> but the CoC does have to be
<Bilange> This whole key stuff is confusing me alot-- is there some background info about how this stuff works (and why this is important)?
<nixternal> didn't say they have to...just lettin' um know how to create a key
<jenda> Bilange: not here, not now
<ompaul> Bilange, contat me after this 
<Bilange> ompaul, okay
<ompaul> I'll take anyone through it
<matthewrevell> All agreed Jenda to lead SU?
<nixternal> plug gpg --gen-key doesn't get a key signed
<nixternal> +1 on jenda
<jenda> OK...
<_sara> +1
<ompaul> nixternal, its the CoC that gets signed - please leave it 
<bimberi> +1 jenda
<jenda> Now - we have avoided the Media Project
<_sara> Media Project?
<jenda> matthewrevell?
<matthewrevell> Have we?
<mindspin> yup
<mindspin> we have
<ompaul> jenda, you have taken 1.5 hours to get this far :-)
<jenda> _sara: The admin of ubuntupeople has closed down the project without notice - matthewrevell might know more.
* dotwaffle perks up to "Media Project"
* jenda is hoping matthewrevell is writing a long one ;)
<matthewrevell> I'd like to set up a project that supports the Ubuntu community, and canonical where appropriate, it dealing with the media. Details are on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PressTeam ... not a team really, but a project of MT
<matthewrevell> jenda: long enough dude? :-D
<jenda> perfect
<ompaul> a sub team of 
<matthewrevell> Jane has expressed interested, as have a few people. I say we take it onto the ML to flesh it out.
<jenda> yes, matthewrevell are you happy with coining it the Media Project? (as opposed to the Press Team)
<mindspin> I'd like to join, I do part-time PR here
<matthewrevell> jenda: Yeah, sounds good.
<matthewrevell> mindspin: Love to have you :)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Name can be thrashed out, if necessary, in ML
<nixternal> move it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/MediaProject ???
<dotwaffle> Media Relations Project? otherwise it sounds like we're making a video podcast...
<jenda> OK... since most haven't read the wiki, there's no point in discussing further. I propose matthewrevell as the leader of that.
<bimberi> "library of ready-made press releases" - great!
<dotwaffle> matthewrevell.support++
<Bilange> dotwaffle, +1
<mindspin> +1
<bimberi> +1
<jenda> agreed
<matthewrevell> Cool.
<jenda> the MRP ;)
<jenda> OK, topic close
<jenda> d
<dotwaffle> How about dotwaffle's band of media brothers - I like that even more ;)
<jenda> One more thing - does the Marketing Team need a leader?
* digitalmouse is reminded of Dungeons and Dragons with all these +1s
<dotwaffle> It needs a point of contact for Jane etc.
<jenda> I believe previous experiences point to: no
<matthewrevell> jenda: Yes.
<dotwaffle> Not a leader, but a point of contact, certainly - I think
<matthewrevell> I'd say you're the obvious choice, but perhaps we should put this to the ML as it's the biggest decision.
<Bilange> maybe leader isnt the right word for that position... "central point" maybe?
<jenda> I can act as the contact for the MT - I have for at least two months now.
<ompaul> it is called Contact Point
* jenda votes for a mailing list discussion.
<dotwaffle> contact_point.jenda.support++
<matthewrevell> +1
* mindspin agrees with jenda
<Bilange> ++ (+1 for the non programmers :P)
<jenda> matthewrevell: will you take that one on your shoulders?
<jenda> Bilange: ah :)
<matthewrevell> jenda: I'll raise it on the list tomorrow.
<jenda> thanks
<matthewrevell> np
<dotwaffle> there are non-coders on here? shoo, shoo =)
* dotwaffle looks nervously.
* jenda kicks dotwaffle 
<matthewrevell> Okaay, let's get wrapped up, I want to see my wife at some point today :)
<digitalmouse> I realize I am a bit late in adding my 2 cents, but I was a part of the early forum discussion and with the original poster had started on a CMS/template design for the magazine (a combination website/pdf download).  I would still like to contribute to the development of the website, as well as offer up my skills for pdf production (my background includes desktop publishing), and authoring the occasional article.
<Bilange> dotwaffle, im not :)
<jenda> matthewrevell: forget it ;)
<dotwaffle> Bilange: Neither am I, raelly ;)
<matthewrevell> digitalmouse: Let's take specifics to the ML or a magazine meeting
<jenda> digitalmouse: _sara is the leader of the Mag now, and there will probably soon be a Mag meeting.
<digitalmouse> I thought the mag was to be discussed here? (I notice it was earlier)...   but, as you wish.
<jenda> OK, case closed?
<matthewrevell> yup
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> closed.
<jenda> * Mailing list moderator(s) required to take strain from Jane Silber.
<jenda> I propose each project leader to be a moderator.
<ompaul> there is no moderator
<jenda> administrator, then.
<ompaul> that implies censorship
<bimberi> spam-filterer
<matthewrevell> ompaul: Well, it is censoring spam :)
<ompaul> hehe
<digitalmouse> politician then? :-p
<jenda> sara_: that's a much more tab-completion friendly nick. THanks ;)
<bimberi> eww
<jenda> opinions, suggestions, volunteers, please ;)
<matthewrevell> Okay, shall we see how it goes with project leads? Our friendly contact point can raise it with silbs.
<sara_> sorry I got disconeected so I don't knwo where we are?
<jenda> mekeke
<jenda> noted
<Bilange> (jenda, there was only one nick with _ as the first character, hence faster to complete.. I liked _sara more)
<jenda> Bilange: but I don't type _ as often, so it's more diff. ;)
<matthewrevell> Objections?
<digitalmouse> as I mentioned before, as well as in the original forum thread, I'll volunteer for some mag-related duties since I've already started on CMS development and PDF generation
<sara_> I haven't seen you pdf stuff. Do you have  sample?
<matthewrevell> Everyone happy to clos ethis one?>
<jenda> OK folks
<sara_> +1
<jenda> this topic is closed as well.
<jenda> 3
<jenda> 2
<jenda> 1
<jenda> done
<digitalmouse> mostly my work is programming pdf-generation code that is pulled from database sources, but I believe I still have some desktop-publishing content that was converted to PDF... will have to dig up the old CD archive for that
<matthewrevell> Excellent :) You can tell it's been a good first meeting as we've all come away with far more to do :)
* bimberi wonders if anything was decided then
<jenda> Now, since that was the last topic on the a-jenda, I'd like to thank you all for coming - and wish you a good night!
<matthewrevell> I must shoot. Been great being here, catch you all later!
* jenda is very happy with this meeting.
<Bilange> great meeting :)
* matthewrevell is to
<dotwaffle> Anything I can be getting on with? Student with little to do for the next few months ;)
<jenda> I'll try making a "minute" now.
* digitalmouse reads the log of the meeting
<jenda> [Nirvana] : you _just_ missed it ;)
<[Nirvana] > hehe.. great
<ompaul> AnyOne who wants to know how to sign the COC can join me in #Signing101
<[Nirvana] > stupid time zones
<Bilange> nirv: nice timing, jenda just said its over BEFORE you joined
<bimberi> ah, i've seen matthew's post - there was a decision ;)
<jenda> Bilange: I don't think nirv came here for the meeting ;)
<Bilange> I guess you know more than I do :)
<jenda> bimberi: I have two pages full of notes which imply decisions made ;)
<[Nirvana] > jenda: I did, missed out on the time zone changing
<jenda> ah
<jenda> sorry, Nirvana
<[Nirvana] > @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: Current meeting: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu
<bimberi> bimberi: no i meant the last point (list administration)
<jenda> I can send you a log immediately if you wish
<[Nirvana] > updating korgac time :P
<jenda> bimberi: ah ;)
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: Current meeting: Marketing Team | 29 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 17:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu
<digitalmouse> ah sara is Tikal
* digitalmouse waves
<digitalmouse> I see no mention was made of the work I've already started on the mag  :-(
<digitalmouse> oh well
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-29
<juantao> hello. the following quip on the CommunityCouncilAgenda wike page indicates I might learn here when the next meeting is going to be held. Anyone know the date and time ? "The next meeting of the Council will be at TBC (ColinWatson to announce) on #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net" Thanks : - )
<jenda> juantao: that means ColinWatson (Kamion) will announce it, and that the meeting will happen here.
<jenda> The last meeting happened yesterday, so the next will probably be in two weeks
<jenda> The best way to know as soon as possible is to subscribe to changes on the CCAgenda wiki page.
<juantao> jenda: Thanks, I don't want to miss it, how often do you recommend I er... guess I missed it. My pending membership is still listed on the stie.
<juantao> I'll subscribe - thanks!
<jenda> juantao: this one was announced only several hours ahead - most candidates missed it.
<juantao> ah. I'll subscribe. Thank you.
<jenda> np
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fabbione> @schedule denmark
<fabbione> @schedule Italy
<fabbione> die
<fabbione> @schedule UTC
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Jun 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<dsas> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 17:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<dotwaffle> @schedule London
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 29 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<mdz> good morning folks
<ajmitch> morning mdz
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<fabbione> mdz: yo
<zul> hey mdz 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<mdz> Kamion,Keybuk,Mithrandir,Riddell,benc,dholbach,doko,heno,iwj,mvo,ogra,seb128,sfllaw: ping
<doko> pong
<mvo> 10 minutes to go?
<zul> 9
<Hobbsee> 8
<Mithrandir> pong
<Mithrandir> also, 7.
<infinity> 6!
* sivang holds fingers for the new cable internet connection to not drop in the meeting
<fabbione> mdz: Kamion said that he might be a couple of minutes late
<BenC> mdz: pong
<doko> hmm, did we want to start with the wiki-prepared reports this week?
<fabbione> uh?
<fabbione> wiki prepared reports?
* fabbione doesn't have a clue of what you are talking about
<infinity> fabbione: There was an intention to pop reports on a wiki page ~24 hours before a meeting, so people could peruse them, prepare questions, and waste less time chatting about useless faff in meetings.
<infinity> I suspect that won't happen this week since, well, it's 2 minutes to the meeting and we have no pre-prepared wiki page. :)
<Hobbsee> 5, 4, 3, 2?
<fabbione> infinity: ok thanks
<fabbione> 2
<Hobbsee> infinity: people should learn to type fast :P
<sfllaw> mdz: Pong.
<jbailey> Hobbsee: I suggest ntpdate. =)
<Kamion> here
<sfllaw> mdz: I'm "on vacation" right now, but I'll be happy to interject.
<pitti> hello
<sivang> hey jbailey 
<jbailey> Heya Sivan et a.
<jbailey> +l
<zul> hey jeff
<heno> hello
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Hobbsee> jbailey: heh.
<infinity> sfllaw: There's an unwritten law that people on VAC should NOT ATTEND MEETINGS, GO HAVE A LIFE, ARGH.
<mdz> sfllaw: unfortunately it's not easy for me to query that in an efficient way
<mdz> sfllaw: if you're on vacation, begone ;-)
<sivang> infinity: hehe
<mdz> seb, dholbach and riddell are off as well
<mdz> iwj: you here?
<mdz> ogra,Keybuk: ready?
<sfllaw> Ooh.  There's a talk on Software Floating Point that's coming on now.
<Keybuk> mdz: yup
<iwj> mdz: Yes.
<ogra> my ibook constantly hardlocks so i might drop out, but i'm ready 
<mdz> ok
<ogra> (dapper sucks on that machine)
<mdz> today, for variety, we go in case-sensitive ascending order by nick
<ogra> (or better with that specific broadcom card)
<mdz> Kamion: you're up first
<Kamion> haha, ok
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Leftover from Dapper, approved. 5 days.
<Kamion> revive-tasksel: Approved. Since this is basically yanking code back in sync with Debian and writing a bit of glue, I expect about 4 days of work allowing for a bit of initial testing.
<Kamion> sane-installer-keyboard: Approved. I reckon about 10 days, given that upstream has volunteered to do some of the hard bits (yay). Have given primary responsibility for this to Tollef, although I'm sure I'll still do the odd bit of work on it.
<Kamion> no-more-devfs: Approved. I'm estimating about 3 days of work to clear this all u
<Kamion> p. If we time it right then we can do it in cooperation with Debian (needs to be
<Kamion>  after etch d-i beta 3, which is "soon", but also needs to miss UVF by as little
<Kamion>  as possible).
<Kamion> seed-cleanup: Drafting; will finish soon. Remaining germinate change is about a day's work.
<Kamion> ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Still drafting, but I'll finish that this week. Calling this 20 days; may need to drag in help, at least from a KDE person for the Qt interface.
<Kamion> misc: Merges, merges, merges. Also hideously behind on e-mail; don't expect me t
<Kamion> o have read anything on non-announcement mailing lists.
<Kamion> oops, apologies for crappy line-wrapping
<mdz> Kamion: you have 5 targets approved for edgy so far, though seed-cleanup needs fleshing out
<Kamion> what one did I miss?
<mdz> how many more of those do you expect to be able to take on for edgy?
<Kamion> or was that counting ubiquity-advanced-partitioner?
<Kamion> the above comes to about 7 weeks of development time in total
<Kamion> I may have room for some of langpacks-on-cd
<mdz> the ones targeted for edgy currently are ue-partitioning-tool, revive-tasksel, no-more-devfs, seed-cleanup and ubuntu-meta-from-bzr [implemented] 
<mdz> Kamion: so is the list above the ones you think will fit?
<Kamion> yeah
<mdz> I think sane-installer-keyboard was recently approved; isn't on the edgy list yet
<mdz> please target it to edgy
<Kamion> sane-installer-keyboard is targeted to edgy, but I gave it to Tollef
<mdz> ah, there it is
<Kamion> I've thrown ubiquity-advanced-partitioner at edgy too
<mdz> I am sorted by assignee
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> automake-transition: Approved.  our spec has appeared to fuel the Debian maintainer into doing much of the work; we should get this one for free.
<Keybuk> teardown: Approved.  Tested at the conference, changes to ubuntu-desktop dependencies can be done once they've been merged, other packages as and when they come up.  Estimated only a day of work to make the changes listed in the spec (they're already done on my laptop).
<Keybuk> libata-for-all-ata-disks: Approved.  Will approach this once the merges are out of the way and the kernel patch is in, perfecting the migration is expected to take the bulk of the time, as is testing the new drivers.
<Keybuk> boot-message-logging: Approved.  Makes sense to implement it in pair with
<Keybuk> replacement-init: Drafting/Approval tennis with Kamion, making sure this is specified right first.  The scope of this specification is deliberately limited for edgy to just replacing /sbin/init and the companion tools.  The specification also contains a hard deadline that must be reached by FeatureFreeze for it to not be deferred.  I believe that this scope is reachable with a high degree of confidence in the implementation and changes by Featu
<Keybuk> reFreeze.  I expect this to be the bulk of my work for the edgy timeframe.
<Keybuk> dash-as-bin-sh: Implemented
<Keybuk> other: the all-new merge-o-matic now running
<mdz> Keybuk: doesn't dash-as-bin-sh need an upgrade transition?
<Keybuk> mdz: elaborate?  one was not defined in the spec
<mdz> Keybuk: I saw your upload to change the debconf default, but that won't affect upgrades, no?
<jbailey> I saw it come in today and it switched it here.
<Keybuk> it won't affect upgrades if someone had already installed dash ... but then if somebody had done that, they probably set it as the default anyway
<fabbione> meh
<Kamion> it will affect upgrades from systems that didn't previously have dash installed
<Keybuk> dash wasn't previously installed by default
<Kamion> Keybuk: not true, it was a dependency of initrd-tools
<Kamion> so fresh installs of <=breezy will have it
<mdz> yes, pretty much all of my systems have it installed
<mdz> anyway, ->offline
<Keybuk> ah, that wasn't known
<mdz> Keybuk: what's your guess about the doability of replacement-init?
<Keybuk> in that case, yes, upgrades from systems with dash already installed need to be adjusted
<ogra> i have it too nd this machine has only seen dapper
<Keybuk> mdz: should be both doable, stable and everyone actually confident about it -- the scope is deliberately limited to just replacing init and the standard initscripts and not requiring *any* other changes
<mdz> Keybuk: and there's no existing init we can adopt rather than NIHing it?
<Keybuk> I've set hard deadlines in the spec
<Keybuk> mdz: there isn't, sadly :-/
<Keybuk> I looked at every single one
<Keybuk> welcome to elaborate offline on that
<Keybuk> (it would be too much of a discussion here)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> you should have your hands reasonably full with that
<Keybuk> yes, I arranged my other specs on the basis I would have
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next
<Mithrandir> optimized-live-cd-layout-for-faster-boot: implemented, just needs to get the list to Adam (post his vacation) and merging into the kernel proper.  Shaved a good 40 seconds off the live cd boot time
<Keybuk> (heh, and I had these answer's pre-prepared with C&P :p)
<Mithrandir> misc: merges, catching up after Paris, reviewed ubuntu-edgy-cluster, some SoC mentoring
<Mithrandir> other specs: no progress
<Mithrandir> next week: merges, merges, merges, hopefully get some live cd hacking in there too
* Mithrandir steals Keybuk's apostrophe.
<ogra> Mithrandir, hey, thats mine i he only borrowed it !
<mdz> Mithrandir: so on your edgy list, you have (remaining) sane-installer-keyboard, live-cd-stacked-filesystems, live-cd-write-as-you-go, livecd-sessions
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, and I want to get the live-cd-share-live-cd one in too.
<mdz> Mithrandir: is that awaiting review?
<Mithrandir> yes
<infinity> live-cd-stacked-filesystems needs ot be assigned to both Tollef and I, somehow. :)
<infinity> (That won't be too much time for my end though, once he's told me how his end looks)
<mdz> you could create a team for it, but I think that would only confuse things
<infinity> Barring kernel problems on buildds or other hilarity.
<mdz> if the chunks are big enough, split the spec.  if not, just pass it from one of you to the other
<BenC> "there are no kernel problems"
* infinity nods.
<fabbione> BenC: ++
<mdz> Mithrandir: ok, sounds like a good set of stuff. should be fun
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<Mithrandir> I certainly hope so.
<infinity> BenC: Will you stand by that when I tell you that I'll be using squash and union on buildds multiple times per day without rebooting?
<mdz> BenC: oops, I had your nick capitalization wrong in my list; you should have been first of course ;-)
<mdz> BenC: you're up
<BenC> go now? :)
<BenC> libata-for-all-ata-disks: STARTED: Alan's patch is now in the kernel. Waiting for changes to base-files, and boot loaders for upgrades before enabling modules (I'll start on boot loaders, Keybuk has said he'll do the base-files changes to update /etc/fstab)
<BenC> linux-kernel-crash-dump: NOT STARTED (still in review). Looks like kdump is what we will be going with. Getting the mechanics right will take the most time on implementing this.
<BenC> speakup-inclusion: DONE: Kernel modules are in and building on all but hppa and sparc. This is done for my part. The rest of the work is userspace (unable to update status of spec).
<BenC> kernel notes: 2.6.17 final is now in edgy. Linux-restricted-modules was just uploaded, and will be followed by linux-meta soon. This will make 2.6.17 the default kernel in edgy after today (let the bug reporting begin).
<BenC> ABAT (automated testing): x86 runs are almost ready to go. PPC64, is in the works. Regression, LTP and benchmark testing will be included in runs now.
<Keybuk> BenC: are the modules disabled?  if we have a list, I can blacklist them so we can enable them in the kernel source and just have them disabled from user-space
<BenC> infinity: that's not a kernel "problem", that's the kernel being tainted :P
<mdz> can someone on the review team commit to giving l-k-c-d a look today?
<BenC> Keybuk: I'll send you a list then
<mdz> fabbione: would you review it?
<Mithrandir> linux-kernel-crash-dump seems not to be targetted for edgy?
<mdz> Mithrandir: I've not been targeting specs which aren't approved yet
<mdz> though some were targeted before paris inadvertently
<Mithrandir> oh, ok
<Mithrandir> mdz: I can review it.
<mdz> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
<Mithrandir> (unless fabio wants to)
<mdz> BenC: does your workload seem like a good balance to you?  you should have plenty of spare bandwidth to spend on bugs and tracking upstream
<Mithrandir> BenC: do you want comments on IRC or inline in the spec?  Either is fine with me.
<BenC> mdz: Yeah, I think I'll be pretty good with specs and time for bug reporting
<BenC> mdz: If I fall behind on one or the other, I'll let you know
<BenC> Mithrandir: inline is best
<Mithrandir> BenC: ok
<mdz> BenC: thanks
<mdz> doko: next?
<doko> - this week:
<doko>   - edgy: edgy-toolchain-roadmap: binutils update, preparing gcc-4.1 update
<doko>   - edgy: preparing python sync/resync from unstable
<doko>   - dapper/edgy: OOo, updating ooo-build to current 2.0.3 milestones, resyncing with debian packaging, updating ubuntu patches, fixing new build failures. (would love to have the dapper-proposed-updates staging area ready)
<doko>   - a bit of SoC admin stuff
<doko>   - still to do this week: finish edgy+1-toolchain-roadmap, java-roadmap, time estimations.
<doko>   - looking at python2.5 for edgy (upstream release planned for Aug 8), idea: "support" 2.4 and 2.5 for edgy, decide in a test environment, if we can safely switch the default (which would be after UVF).
<doko> - next week: syncs, syncs, syncs
<fabbione> mdz: sorry i have a waterpipe exploded! brb
<mdz> doko: it looks like none of your specs are approved yet; what's holding them back?
<mdz> fabbione: argh!
<pitti> doko: with the new python infrastructure, can we easily switch the default now?
<mdz> fabbione: at least you were at home when it happened ;-)
<sivang> heh
<doko> mdz: didn't set the toolchain specs back to "for review". the "tracking-versions" spec was approved, but made a LP spec
<doko> the packaging-hints was given back from review, waiting for a second review
<mdz> doko: ok, the hard deadline is next week's meeting; don't wait until the last minute
<mdz> doko: if you are having trouble getting reviews, let me know
<doko> pitti: yes, but I would like to wait for the rc
<doko> mdz: ok
<mdz> doko/pitti: is ssp going to land as part of the early toolchain updates?
<pitti> mdz: yes, just waiting for the sparc libc problem
<doko> mdz: yes, we're waiting for sparc
<mdz> gar
<pitti> mdz: but the patch is there now, just needs bootstrapping AFAIK
<mdz> doko: let's go over your workload once your specs are finalized
<infinity> Doesn't need a bootstrap, per se, just a couple of normal uploads.
<mdz> doko: thanks
<mdz> fabbione is next but is dealing with a water crisis and has my sympathies
<mdz> heno: are you here?
<doko> mdz: one more thing is OOo 2.0.4 for edgy, release planned for Sep 4 ...
<heno> * livecd-access - Review. started working on new boot screen
<heno> * access.ubuntu.com - Review. first draft page ready
<heno> * sok: Chris Jones the SoC student responsible for it is here now (totroise_) so he might say a few words about it. I think we're ready to make an Edgy package soon though.
<heno> * all other specs: still drafting
<heno> * Next week: Help the new webmaster write a plan of action and find his way around
<mdz> doko: might be possible
<Keybuk> mdz: "a water crisis"?  did somebody's waters break?
<mdz> Keybuk: <fabbione> mdz: sorry i have a waterpipe exploded! brb
<Keybuk> ah
<tortoise_> Hi currenly the simple onscreen keyboard is in a working but unpolished state.  It needs keyboard definitions and is missing some features.  It is designed with flexibility in mind.  Layout is defined in svg files which can be made in Inkscape.  Keys are then mapped in a seperate .SOK xml file.    
<tortoise_> More info and screenshot here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Projects/SOK
<Mithrandir> tortoise_: it'd be really nice if it'd pick up the keyboard definitions from XKB.
<mdz> heno: I know that for some of your specs, someone else is intending to do the implementation. is the assignee on your specs up-to-date all around as far as what you will be implementing vs. others?
<tortoise_> Mithrandir: I was planning on sriting a script to convert from the GOK definitions
<infinity> Mithrandir: Noting that XKB also has the (bizarre) capability to draw keyboards based on its keymaps, too.
<ogra> guys !
<Mithrandir> infinity: yup.
<heno> mdz: the compi-mag one needs my other SoC student to sort out his LP acct so I can assign it to him
<heno> mdz: the forum one I'm not quite sure who will take charge of, otherwise they are fine
<mdz> heno: forum-integration?  that's marked informational; if there's real work to do, that flag should be cleared
<heno> mdz: ok, that's fine too then
<mdz> informational specs won't be tracked during the weekly meetings, release milestones, etc. since it's assumed there's no real work to do
<mdz> ok
<mdz> heno: thanks
<mdz> I have an emailed update from Riddell
<mdz> done: merges for about half of KDE done, on track to get main done by
<mdz> end of next week.
<mdz> also: Proofreading Kubuntu specs. Google half term reports, don't forget if you're a mentor
<mdz> next week: merges
<mdz> specs: several still to be reviewed
<mdz> he has a handful of specs approved and targeted for edgy, but a bunch remaining to be reviewed.  I'll go over them with him when he's back
<mdz> infinity: next?
<infinity> I'd like to apologise in advance for my distro specs being largely in unapproved states.  I spent the majority of the week in Paris wrangling with the soyuz guys (which was very productive), but obviously have some distro slack to pick up as soon as I get back from VAC.
<infinity> larger-livefs: Approved, work not yet begun, should be trivial once seed changes happen.
<infinity> early-userspace: Still needs to finish drafting, nothing there should be unrealistic for edgy.
<infinity> livefs-build-speedups: Will draft on the internal wiki if anyone cares, otherwise it will "just happen".
<infinity> ubuntu-server-tasks: Still needs polish before approval, will do when I get back.
<infinity> various soyuz-related specs: Most of these are approved or pending approval, and work is ongoing with the soyuz folks to make them happen in the timeframes we require.
<infinity> last week: Monday was a complete loss, due to travel (my SIN->MEL flight was horribly delayed, and I got home in time to set up my laptop and pass out), spent the last two days mangling buildds to get the world as sane as possible before I leave.
<infinity> next week: VAC all week.
<infinity> week after next: Clean up all the above unapproved specs and get time estimates set correctly (and begin work on the more urgent ones)
<mdz> infinity: earnly-userspace is marked informational; is that accurate?
<mdz> early, even
<infinity> mdz: Clearly not, I didn't set that flag.  I'[ll unset it.
<Mithrandir> infinity: week after next, I want you too, for the first milestone release.
<infinity> Same with ubuntu-server-tasks, for that matter.
<infinity> Mithrandir: You have me for that, I can multitask. :)
<Mithrandir> that's an early warning for everybody.  First milestone release in approximately two weeks.
<mdz> infinity: given your holiday, there isn't much time to get your specs reviewed and approved by the deadline.  you'll need to nag the review team
<Keybuk> note for those not reading their e-mail yet, I'm emergency-holographic-adam next week for the buildds
<mdz> Mithrandir: please update EdgyReleaseSchedule with the tentative date
<infinity> mdz: I'm good at nagging people.  It's in my job description.
<mdz> infinity: ok, thanks
<mdz> iwj: next?
<iwj> done: package-dependency-field-breaks step 1: Made dpkg reject Breaks.
<iwj> doing: automated-testing-deployment: Fighting Xen again.
<iwj> todo: package-dependency-field-breaks: Implement Breaks properly (anyone who wants me to expedite this please let me know).
<iwj> todo: xen-edgy: Pick up and help out (some community work is happening on this already).  Note in this context that sid's kernels now have Xen support.
<iwj> todo: Firefox merge.
<doko> Keybuk: should/can I help with the python/zope syncs/overwrites next week?
<iwj> soon BLOCKED: xen-edgy: will soon be wanted for automated-testing-deployment, I think; I don't want to spend too much effort on my own ad-hoc setup.
<iwj> Edgy specs not yet touched by me: xen-edgy (see above); suggest-packages-for-filetypes (mvo has been looking at a bit of this though - thanks).
<iwj> BLOCKED?: merges: Is there a way to claim merges yet ?  Isn't this essential to avoid duplicated work ?
<iwj> REMINDER: meeting times: Please email iwj@ubuntu.com your current timezone, normal Ubuntu working times and sleep times, by 23:59:59 UTC on 2006-06-30.  If you don't then we'll set the meeting schedule without the necessary information to adapt to your comfort or convenience!
<Kamion> for general information, the milestone CDs are hereby known as "Knot CD <N>"
<ogra> :)
<Keybuk> doko: I'm not sure I understand your question
<mdz> iwj: there isn't a proper way to claim merges yet, but in practice there are few of us and it hasn't been much of a problem
<Kamion> there have been a couple of clashes this cycle
<Keybuk> doko: oh, yes, sorry; I follow -- need to chat to mdz
<iwj> mdz: Well, I'll start on firefox tomorrow in the confident expectation no-one will have done it yet and see what people say then.
<Kamion> relatively few compared to the sheer number though
<mdz> in my response to scott on -devel I proposed that the clashes might not be worth the overhead of using malone
<iwj> It'll get worse as the todo list gets shorter.
<infinity> Two people already blew a couple of hours each on the vim merge (which is really the fault of whoever didn't merge it with the innital toolchain, as has been tradition.. :P)
<mdz> that's one we'll neet to discuss outside of the meeting; there's a thread on -devel
<iwj> mdz: OK.
<mdz> we have the option of using malone, or the tool that MOTU has, or doing something else
<iwj> I just wanted to raise it.
<mdz> iwj: don't forget to merge the theme stuff when updating firefox
<iwj> You mean the change to the default theme ?
<fabbione> bah
<fabbione> re
<fabbione> mdz: i think i can yes
<mdz> iwj: on your edgy list are   	automated-testing-deployment, xen-edgy, breaks and filetypes
<fabbione> mdz: (review the spec)
<mdz> fabbione: mithrandir offered already
<iwj> mdz: Yes.
<Keybuk> \o/ Braeks
<fabbione> mdz, Mithrandir: ok thanks
<iwj> Keybuk: Your speling is Broekn.
<Mithrandir> could we tell the person who did the merge last time that we're doing it?  That should generally lead to very few clashes.
<Keybuk> iwj: yeah, my cymraeg showing there, sorry
<mdz> iwj: does that match your plans, or do you expect to finish/claim any others?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: the person who did the large change is listed on the status page
<iwj> iwj: I expect to finish those unless something goes badly wrong.
<iwj> If I finish early I'll help out someone who looks desperate.
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: exactly, so it's easy to find out and.
<mdz> iwj: have you done time estimates for those?
<iwj> mdz: Yes, but time estimates are quite rough.
<Mithrandir> s/and/who/
<mdz> I can't find the LP view which tells me at the moment
<iwj> I was reasonably generous.
<iwj> So it probably looks like they don't all fit.
<mdz> PS, for anyone looking for advice on estimates, I thought http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000245.html was pretty good
<iwj> The main risk is to the Xen stuff because of the dependencies.
<Keybuk> mdz: "take whatever value you think is appropriate, then multiply by PI" ?
<BenC> iwj: Has zul been in touch with you about xen?
<mdz> iwj: are you or mvo going to do filetypes?  I'm not fussed either way really
<iwj> BenC: Yes.
<BenC> iwj: Great, hopefully he can help get that going
<mdz> Keybuk: LP doesn't support irrational numbers in that field
<iwj> mdz: We're splitting it between us; there are a couple of things he said would be much quicker for him.
<mvo> mdz: bits are implemented already, but bits are missing (caching for example)
<iwj> BenC: Quite.  He sounds very keen.
<Keybuk> mdz: aren't all time estimates inherently irrational?  </OT>
<mdz> har
<mdz> iwj: ok, thanks
<jbailey> iwj: I didn't look at the xen specs, but the glibc stuff isn't perfect yet.  libc6-xen conflicts libc6-686 and I need to fix that.
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Specs for edgy:
<mvo> Aprroved:
<mvo> - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades 		
<mvo> - dependency-removal
<mvo> - recommends-support 
<mvo> - command-not-found-magic
<mvo> In review:
<mvo> - smartpm 
<mvo> - apt-ddtp
<mvo> - language-selector-improvements
<mvo> - gai-popcon (popcon data for gnome-app-install)
<mvo> Drafting:
<iwj> jbailey: Nice.  I'm not at that stage yet but that's the kind of thing we're going to trip over.
<mvo> - enabling-additional-components  (apt-get handling for universe/multiverse packages open)
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - spec work 
<mvo> - gnome-app-install work (popcon integration, search result ranking, mime-search)
<mvo> - apt work (auto-removal branch, misc stuff)
<mvo> - smart work (bugs, commit-log added, looked into auto-removal) 
<mvo> - Google Summer of code
<mvo> Next week:
<iwj> jbailey: ATM I'm doing a hideous thing with dpkg-divert to disable TLS.
<mvo> - get missing specs in shape
<mvo> - summer vacation next week (from 5 Jul - 20 Jul)
<mdz> mvo: the caching in g-a-i seems obvious enough not to need a spec; do you agree?
<mdz> mvo: we just shouldn't forget about it
<jbailey> iwj: Not possible in edgy, sorry.
<Kamion> mvo: enabling-additional-components> s/ubiquity, debian-installer/apt-setup/
<mdz> oh, you've done it already
<Kamion> mvo: that was disabled by policy, but if mdz's happy with enabling it by default then it's trivial to do ...
<mvo> mdz: its not as easy as initally hoped because a simple pickle can't be used - currently g-a-i uses pyxdg to build the menu. but we will not forget
<mvo> Kamion: yes, mdz was in the discussion when it came up 
<mdz> mvo: language-selector-improvements was targeted for edgy pre-paris, but is in review.  is it doable for edgy given your other work?
<Kamion> I guess warning command-line users covers it
<Kamion> ok
<mvo> mdz: I really hope so, maybe we can find someone from the community, it shouldn't be too hard to do 
<mdz> it seems like a lot of per-locale legwork which will be difficult to do quickly
<mdz> let's talk about it after
<mvo> ok
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<ogra> * last-week: merged debians ltsp bzr tree, fixed all breakage and made the package work again. merged gcompris, packaged new gnome-screensaver, started lots of smaller merges
<ogra> * list of merges i plan to do this week: atomix, dhcp3, fuse, iptraf, kdeedu, kino, nessus-plugins, pwgen, rss-glx, tuxmath, tuxpaint, xfonts-terminus, xscreensaver (shout if you already work on something there)
<ogra> * next-week: finishing merges from above list, starting spec work, SoC review, sorting ltsp branches 
<ogra> * specs: 
<ogra> - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration: (approved, started), thinclient-local-devices (approved, started)
<ogra> - student-control-panel-completion: (needs Review, started in dapper already)
<ogra> - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in Review, needs DC infrastructure, elmo contacted)
<ogra> - ltsp-management-gui: (Braindump, beta available, need to transfer the text to the wiki, pet project of mine will do it in spare time if needed)
<ogra> - ltsp-convergence: (this is rather an ongoing process beyond edgy, not a real spec, will track process status via LP)
<ogra> - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (not a spec, rather a bugfix, will track status via LP) 
<ogra> The other ltsp related specs are assigned to rodrigo on request
* rodarvus nods
<mdz> ogra: which of your remaining unapproved specs are most likely to get finalized by the deadline?
<ogra> mdz, student-control-panel
<ogra> daily image tarballs as well since jammcq and sbalneav are waiting for it ...
<mdz> ogra: ltsp-daily-image-tarballs wasn't on the Paris list, so please target it to edgy so that it's on our radar
<ogra> oki
<mdz> it'll go on the proposed list
<ogra> added
<mdz> ltsp-netboot-enhancement is (correctly) marked obsolete
<mdz> ogra: ok, thanks
<mdz> pitti: next
<pitti> apt-get-debug-symbols: created pkg-create-dbgsym package with dh_strip wrapper; mostly ready and working, just fails on a few corner cases; ETA 1 day to extend the test suite for the failing cases and fix them, then upload; then the ball is in the Soyuz field (estimated 15 mandays)
<pitti> automated-problem-reports: played with various possibilities to save a stack frame (memory dump, shrinking core dump file) so that we can generate the bt later; not quite there yet; I'll get a nonoptimal solution working very soon, though; I hope I'll manage to get an initial working backend next week; our minimal gnome desktop frontend is easy (~ 1 day)
<pitti> gcc-ssp: more testing with various packages, good results; coordinated with fabbione and doko, changing gcc needs to wait for libc fix and bootstrapping on sparc; shouldn't be long any more (2 days?)
<pitti> automatic-printer-conf: not started, I do not have a particular urge (nor time) to aim this at edgy
<pitti> firewall: pinged Carsten again, he promised to report back and provide something for edgy; no progress so far
<pitti> gnome-mount: packaged gnome-mount 0.4 and played with it; policy GUI is not implemented yet, and handling of encrypted devices requires newer (yet unreleased) hal. However, this radically changes infrastructure and currently adds a crackful things; this is still disputed upstream, too; likely needs to be postponed; mdz, can you please remove the edgy flag?
<pitti> auto-unmount-notifications: not started yet; not intrusive, so I'll deal with it after I'm done with my archive-wide specs; can someone please review and approve the spec?
<pitti> printer-sharing: nothing done so far; either we hack gnome-cups-manager (patch is available and tested already), or we consider using RedHat's printer config tool (python, and a lot of good stuff, but requires quite large code modifications); I do not really have time to care for this right now; community effort would be appreciated, I'll talk with ivoks and Kagou
<pitti> general stuff done this week:
<pitti>  - caught up with security updates after Paris
<pitti>  - merges go full steam ahead
<pitti>  - SoC: had some discussion meetings with student, slow progress
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  - do SoC mid-term review
<pitti>  - complete my merges
<pitti>  - some minor security updates
<pitti>  - catch up with bug mail (largely neglected since before Paris; I know, I'm a slacker, sorry)
<mdz> Keybuk: could you review auto-unmount-notifications?
<pitti> (sorry for the size)
<fabbione> pitti: my local gcc build is running the test suite as we speak.. theoretically by tomorrow everything should be sorted
* pitti hugs fabbione 
<Kamion> pitti: I don't remember anything about apt-get-debug-symbols being on the Soyuz radar for edgy when infinity and I sat down with the Soyuz guys in Paris to thrash it out
<Keybuk> mdz: yes, sure
<mdz> pitti: so your projected edgy list is apt-get-debug-symbols, automated-problem-reports, gcc-ssp, gnome-mount, auto-unmount-notifications
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<pitti> Kamion: hm, Adam and I had a long talk with the soyuz guys; I hope it didn't fall off completely
<pitti> mdz: I want to remove the edgy tag for gnome-mount, but I can't
<mdz> pitti: seems like it could be a lot, considering your security workload
<pitti> mdz: hal is currently too crackful
<mdz> pitti: I don't think it's possible to clear that field due to a bug
<Kamion> infinity: did I forget it?
<pitti> mdz: ssp and auto-umount-nots are easy, and I mostly did the work for debug symbols already
<mdz> pitti: you'll need to get a Launchpad DBA to fix it probably
<pitti> mdz: so I think my workload should be fine (I think I also need to care for printing stuff *shudder*)
<mdz> pitti: automated-problem-reports is fairly big
<pitti> yes
<mdz> pitti: have you done time estimates?
<infinity> Kamion: I believe that we (pitti, me, soyuz team) agreed that if it couldn't squeeze into the edgy timeframe, it would be targetter at edgy+1.
<pitti> mdz: yes, should all be in blueprint
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> hopefully we will find security help for you during edgy; the job posting is up now
<pitti> mdz: I estimate 10 days for the basic stuff we agreed on in the spec
<pitti> mdz: saw that, thanks *crosses fingers*
<mdz> pitti: ok, thanks
<mdz> Keybuk wanted to say a few words about MOM I believe
<Keybuk> I did
<Keybuk> just to make sure everybody knows all about it
<Keybuk> we have a new mom this cycle
<mdz> we're adopted?
<Keybuk> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
* fabbione will talk later
<Keybuk> that's the list of outstanding merges
<mdz> fabbione: sorry, forgot that we skipped you
<fabbione> mdz: no problem.. i can go after Keybuk 
<Keybuk> when doing a merge, you'll notice the output format is different too
<Keybuk> rather than the hideous ".dropped" patch and stuff
<mdz> (if everyone were present, we would have run out of time for sure, I expect...)
<Kamion> what are the colours?
<pitti> merges> can be agree that the default claimer is the one noted on the merges page and that we prenotify a person when we do another merge?
<Keybuk> you now just get a bzr-style conflict marker or  .UBUNTU/.DEBIAN for binaries
<Keybuk> Kamion: package priority
<Kamion> oh, explains why mine are all on top
<Keybuk> pitti: I think that's a reasonable idea
<mdz> Keybuk: when does a package get removed from the outstanding list?
<jbailey> Keybuk: Will this be kept running through the whole cycle this time?  It's nice to see what's been updated when doing bug fixing.
<Keybuk> mdz: the mom run after the source has been uploaded to Ubuntu
<Keybuk> mom is running ~6 hours
<Keybuk> I may move that to hourly if all goes well
<Keybuk> jbailey: yes!
<mdz> Keybuk: I mean, we should prioritize packages which haven't been merged at all yet
<ogra> mdz, didnt you miss rodarvus ?
<Keybuk> mdz: right, it's a bit tricky to "record" that ... one would have to record a merge being struck from the list ... which if a new Debian upload happened, etc.
<Keybuk> I am willing to discuss an implementation though
<mdz> ogra: I didn't have a chance to brief him so he doesn't have the usual update, but am talking ot him out of band
<mdz> Keybuk: I think we could fake it using dates
<Keybuk> any questions or problems with merges, please let me know"!
<Keybuk> there's one "known bug" which is sometimes a file that has .UBUNTU/.DEBIAN doesn't show up as "C*" -- but this will be obvious
<Keybuk> that's fixed for future merges
<mdz> ok
* pitti still misses 3-way diffs
<mdz> fabbione: go
<fabbione> * sparc: released dapper. Working on testing a gcc fix for sparc64 to fix a FTBFS of glibc that will unleash ssp stuff for pitti and doko.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: Working on GFS2 userland new deps (openais) and coordinating with upstream for a release date. Addressing some 32/64/endianess problems and getting all our patches upstream to reduce the maintainance load (5/8 are up already).
<fabbione> * specs: ubuntu-edgy-cluster splitted and it's pending approval (Mith should have give it the review tag after mdz's give-back), sparc64-port is still drafting (i had to prioritize the toolchain stuff). Internal specs are waiting for final approval.
<fabbione> * last week: all of the above and done some work on dapper installer in preparation of a point release to fix install on sbus machines.
<fabbione> * next week: finish with gcc, complete the sparc64-port specs, libparted check on sparc for Kamion, dovecot regression from breezy to dapper, possibly merges. My wife looks like a whale and moves as such. Expect me to disappear anytime now.
<mdz> fabbione: good luck!
<fabbione> mdz: thanks
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> fabbione: mubuntu?
<fabbione> mdz: yes. that's internal one in your inbox
<mdz> ok, will have a look
<sivang> fabbione: Mazal Tov :-)
<fabbione> sivang: if that's a swear word you better run away! :P
<mdz> fabbione: do you think you will be able to finalize your specs before you have to go?
<fabbione> mdz: i want to finalize them yes.. i have no idea what mother nature decide for my wife
<fabbione> it's really too unpredictable to say
<mdz> fabbione: ok, let me know if you need help there
<mdz> and we're out of time
<fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
<mdz> anything else, ->-devel
<mdz> adjourned, thanks all
<fabbione> cya guys
<ogra> thanks mdz 
<mvo> thanks
<sivang> thanks
<doko> thanks
<BenC> bye all
* sivang goes to nag his ISP to make net connection not drop or lag so much.
<pitti> thanks all
<zul> toodles
<heno> tortoise_: can you join #ubuntu-accessibility ?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] :  | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.filter #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> @reload Webcal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-30
<BlueT_> @schedule
<Ubug2> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 04 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 13:00: Kubuntu
<fouadbajwa> Hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-01
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-02
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
<Rinchen> join #ubuntu-devel
<Rinchen> and I'm an idiot  :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-25
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<AndyP> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Jun 14:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 16:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 12:00: MOTU Team
<bashelier> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 26 Jun 15:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 13:00: MOTU Team
<sacater> hey, is the sort of place I can chase up my membership application, it was approved and the only thing thats happened is I am now a member of 'ubuntu members' on launchpad
<gnomefreak> sacater: what were you expecting?
<sacater> gnomefreak: @ubuntu.com email address
<gnomefreak> sacater: for a cloak you need to see seveas but since he isnt here try nalioth, your email is most likely set up
<sacater> hmm
<gnomefreak> sacater: it uses whatever email you LP account uses
<sacater> i know
<gnomefreak> sacater: did you have someone try to send it than?
<sacater> no
<Hobbsee> sacater: you're using <launchpadID>@ubuntu.com ?
<sacater> someone send me one
<sacater> sacater@ubuntu.com
<sacater> should be that
<sacater> anyone sent one?
<gnomefreak> sacater: sent
<Hobbsee> sacater: sending
<sacater> okies
<sacater> let me check
<sacater> aha!
<sacater> IT DOES WORK!
<sacater> THANK YOU JEBUS!
<sacater> ty gnomefreak and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<gnomefreak> yw
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 26 Jun 06:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 08:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 05:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 04:00: MOTU Team
<Toadstool> 4am, great!
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> 06:00 here, so I am sure I will either a) be going to bed at that time, or b) in the middle of a killer dream
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 26 Jun 23:00: Community Council | 27 Jun 01:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 29 Jun 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 21:00: MOTU Team
<Hobbsee> hiya Toadstool
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: !
<Hobbsee> :)
<Toadstool> how is it going? :)
<Toadstool> core-dev, eh? nice
<Toadstool> congrats
<stgraber> @schedule zruich
<stgraber> @schedule zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 26 Jun 15:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 13:00: MOTU Team
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: yeah, rather :)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: going well.  exams are done now - yay!
* Hobbsee --> bed
<Toadstool> g'night
<lamalex> night
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-26
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 26 Jun 23:00: Community Council | 27 Jun 01:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jun 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 29 Jun 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 21:00: MOTU Team
<lamalex> damn
* freelancer317 is away: <zzzzz Sleeping>
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* freelancer317 was kicked off #ubuntu-meeting by Hobbsee (please dont use away messages in here)
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<coreymon77> @schedule toronto
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 26 Jun 09:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 07:00: MOTU Team
<calc> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Jun 08:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 10:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 06:00: MOTU Team
<ajmitch> nice, 1AM for me
<calc> 6am for MOTU Team meeting, yuck
<ajmitch> that's not so bad
<ajmitch> were you planning to attend?
<Hobbsee> he wants MOTU, so likely
<calc> heh
<calc> if i can drag myself out of bed that early :)
<ajmitch> the point is that he shouldn't have to wait for a meeting
* ajmitch might even try & make it to the meeting though
<ajmitch> if I can be bothered
<calc> heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that's if hte MC even approves him
<ajmitch> of course
<calc> btw wrt clamav why isn't it in main?
<ajmitch> noone wants it there?
<calc> seems like it would be very useful thing for server at least
* calc saw that it was on the motu agenda, which reminded him of that
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Jun 08:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 10:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 06:00: MOTU Team
<jsgotangco> yay
<nixternal> hehe
<emonkey-m> @schedule zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 26 Jun 15:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 13:00: MOTU Team
<pochu> @now Madrid
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Madrid: June 26 2007, 12:52:35 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 7 minutes
<bashelier> pochu: don't you have time on your computer ? :p
<pochu> bashelier: I do, but I wanted to know when is the CC meeting ;)
<bashelier> pochu: eheh I also do :)
<fabbione> speaking of CC... is mako still part of the Community Council?
<juliux> i hope so
<pochu> I was, not sure if he still is.
<juliux> fabbione, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil look like if ehe is
<pochu> s/I/he/
<fabbione> ok.. then i better hurry up to go and pick him up at the airport :)
<juliux> fabbione, you have two hours;)
<pochu> fabbione: looks like he isn't anymore: https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
<fabbione> hmm no
<fabbione> he is not
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> then i don't need to travel at light speed
<juliux> hm not good that he left
<fabbione> it might be just the auto-expire thingy..
<juliux> perhaps
<jsgotangco> yeah
<myriam_rs> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<juliux> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hmm still pretty early
<myriam_rs> you are the one who knows the answer :-)
<jsgotangco> yeah its just the auto-expire thing however, sabdfl is the one who controls the cc lp team
<myriam_rs> so there are 9 members in total?
<jsgotangco> 8
<jsgotangco> i'll grab some dinner first brb
<nop_> what time is it now?
<PriceChild> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 26 2007, 11:30:04 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 29 minutes
<nop_> PriceChild, thanks
<AndreNoel> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 26 2007, 11:56:32 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 3 minutes
<Zic> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: June 26 2007, 13:59:07 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 0 minutes
<bashelier> hello Mr Zic :)
<bashelier> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: June 26 2007, 14:06:11 - Next meeting: Community Council in 53 minutes
<Zic> bashelier: hi, mr "upnext Ubuntu Member"
<Zic> :)
<coNP> @now Budapest
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Budapest: June 26 2007, 14:07:12 - Next meeting: Community Council in 52 minutes
<bashelier> Zic: :p
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Jun 09:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 07:00: MOTU Team
<n3t0> Ubuntuser, \o/
<Ubuntuser> n3t0, o>
<AndreNoel> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 26 2007, 12:48:44 - Next meeting: Community Council in 11 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team
<AndreNoel> cypherbios: great cypher
<cypherbios> AndreNoel: hey man
<effraie> o/
<OgMaciel> heya effraie!
<pygi> OgMaciel, !!!
<OgMaciel> pygi: hey dude... did you get up in time for your test?
<pygi> OgMaciel, lol, no
<pygi> I was two hours late
<OgMaciel> hahaha
<OgMaciel> pygi: told you I should have skyped ya
<Zic> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: June 26 2007, 14:55:20 - Current meeting: Community Council
<Zic> :] 
<pygi> OgMaciel, oh well, I'll live :p
<Zic> I'm ready :)
<pygi> I appeared later, and got the grade =)
<Ubuntuser> Hi jwendell .. o>
<OgMaciel> pygi: wow... nice to have connections :P
<jwendell> hi
<peanutb> well this got me up at 6am.
<pygi> OgMaciel, what connections lol?
<pygi> get your skype up
<peanutb> but its completely worth it.
<OgMaciel> pygi: hang on
<jsgotangco> hi
<dholbach> heya
* johnc4510 greets all with a smile and a wave  :)
<jsgotangco> hmm we have a looongg agenda
<jsgotangco> i doubt we can fit this in 2 hours
<etank> whats up johnc4510
<Mr_Mirsal> Hey !
<OgMaciel> heya jsgotangco
<Vorian> whoo johnc4510
<jsgotangco> hi Og buddy
<bashelier> hey all :)
<johnc4510> etank: hello and thanks for coming    I appreciate it
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, how long is it since a CC meeting fit in a 2hr slot?
<myriam_rs> hi dholbach :-)
<etank> np johnc4510
<myriam_rs> hi all
<dholbach> hi myriam_rs
<johnc4510> etank: :)
<Admiral_Chicago> everyone is here... party time?
<bashelier> hey dholbach :)
<Admiral_Chicago> oh right we are having a meeting...
<lamalex> etank: hi :)
<Admiral_Chicago> it's never party time...
<Hobbsee> CC here yet?
<pleia2> christinaeater: hey!
<etank> turns out that there are a few people / teams i am cheering on today
<etank> hi lamalex
<christinaeater> pleia2: hi there!
<dholbach> jsgotangco: I feel we should cast the vote on the funky feisty competetition outside the meeting - it's not the best use we can make of our time togethere here
<lamalex> christinaeater: hi
<jsgotangco> dholbach: i agree we can do this on email
<dholbach> jsgotangco: yep
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: how is everything?  any news?
<jsgotangco> dholbach: how about the irc council, this has been discussed in email as well
<dholbach> jsgotangco: we should also drop the derivatives team point, as the derivative team is alive and kicking and I wrote dfarning about it already - ampachu is not here for it either
<jsgotangco> yeah and there's an ML already yes?
<dholbach> yep
<christinaeater> lamalex: hi :) oh dear, there are probably more people i know here than i recognize
<jsgotangco> cool
<dholbach> :-)
<lamalex> aha
<jsgotangco> ok it seems only me and dholbach are here
<dholbach> I though burgundavia would be around
<dholbach> MikeB said he might be busy, mdke is at work
<jsgotangco> i thought so too, i could send an sms to mike, but he said he'll be busy
<dholbach> ah, there he is
<jsgotangco> yay
<MikeB-> morning all
<dholbach> hi MikeB- :)
<PriceChild> speak of the devil
<petrovicivan> I am here in the name of Serbian LoCo
<elkbuntu> dholbach, it's like 6am for burgundavia, so you might be out of luck
<MikeB-> traffic was heavier today, sorry I'm late
<amachu> Hi
<jsgotangco> its alright we can do with 3 for now just to get this rolling
<amachu> amachu from Ubuntu Tamil Team, here
<dholbach> ok, let's get started - we have a full agenda
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<PriceChild> Shall I start?
<dholbach> PriceChild: shall we finish that discussion by mail or do you have any specific points you want to raise?
<elkbuntu> and then there was 4
<dholbach> PriceChild: as you asked the CC by mail already
<dholbach> hi elmo
<PriceChild> Nothing new really. Jono hasn't yet replied :( So there's nothing to discuss really.
<jwendell> cypherbios, please call me if you need something from me, i'm busy on my job, ok?
<bryce> morning
<jsgotangco> \o/
<dholbach> PriceChild: I'll prod him about it
<cypherbios> jwendell: that's right. I'll do
<dholbach> PriceChild: hope it's ok for you, if we move on and finish it by mail
<PriceChild> yup sounds fine, no rush :)
<dholbach> ok thanks
<jsgotangco> thanks
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it'd be good if we could get this going, and not be blocked on jono, if he's not replying, then he probably doesnt have much to say on it
<jsgotangco> we'll skip the photo stuff and do it by mail
<cypherbios> jwendell: thanks for coming
<dholbach> I said to jsgotangco already, that'd we'd do the funky feisty vote by mail also - I think it isn't the best use of our time in the meeting
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I agree, that it'd be good to get it going, but let's just move on for now and finish the discussion by mail please
<Hobbsee> dholbach: as you wish
<jsgotangco> as for the derivatives team amachu is here, but this has been cleared up no?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: thanks
<amachu> jsgotangco: means?
<jsgotangco> amachu: ooppss
<jsgotangco> sorry
<dholbach> we had the point on the agenda for at least one CC meeting already
<amachu> jsgotangco: does it awaiting approval?
<Zic> where is our sabdfl ?
<dholbach> amachu: I wrote dfarning a mail about the derivative team situation
<amachu> dholbach: ok
<amachu> dholbach: any update on it?
<dholbach> amachu: as you might have gathered from other lists, the team is alive and kicking again, has a mailing list and had its first meeting
<dholbach> no, I didn't hear back from him
<amachu> dholbach: gr8
<Admiral_Chicago> just a point; I haven't heard from david in a long time and he was the start of the Mozilla Team
<amachu> it has a mailing list?
<pochu> I'm off to have lunch, but I wanted to let you know that I *fully* support j1mc coNP applications to become members. j1mc rocks with Xubuntu testing, and coNP does a lot of bug triage and Desktop Team packaging!
<dholbach> http://lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> let's move on
<Admiral_Chicago> we mailed him and are waiting back, dunno if he lost interest or something...last we heard he had a family problem
<amachu> Admiral_Chicago: dfarning?
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: right, I'll try to prod him again
<dholbach> Is anybody of the Serbian Team around?
<Admiral_Chicago> as will we
<amachu> okie..
<amachu> thank u
<Admiral_Chicago> amachu: yes
<petrovicivan> yes
<petrovicivan> Serbian coordinator
<petrovicivan> is outway so I will replace him
<pygi> petrovicivan, pozdrav :P
<jsgotangco> Ivan Jelic
<petrovicivan> yes, and I am Ivan Petrovic
<petrovicivan> pygi: pozdrav
<petrovicivan> our Allication approuval is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeamApprovalApplication
<dholbach> your web page looks nice - is there any information in english about your team available somewhere?
<dholbach> ah good :)
<petrovicivan> no, we don't have english version
<myriam_rs> hi dinda!
<dholbach> I meant the application
<petrovicivan> thx for look
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeamApprovalApplication
<petrovicivan> aplication is in english
<jsgotangco> petrovicivan: how many members does the team have? anyone here as well?
<petrovicivan> rainmaker is with us
<rainmaker> hello
<petrovicivan> our team have 8 members
<dholbach> your application says you have 37 cities covered
<jsgotangco> in the page it says that Ubuntu doesn't have serbian localization files, is there a team initiative for this to happen?
<petrovicivan> yes, we covered whole Serbia, because problems with post mail service
<dholbach> petrovicivan: I don't quite understand, how do you cover whole Serbia?
<petrovicivan> jsgotangco: is a mistake look here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+lang/sr
<petrovicivan> when new release comes
<petrovicivan> our members with broadbend download the ISO and then spread to 37 cities
<dholbach> given that danilo is from serbia, no serbian translations would have struck me somewhat :)
<dholbach> petrovicivan: ah ok, now I understand
<petrovicivan> then people can contact by telephone or ..
<dholbach> are most of you in belgrad?
<petrovicivan> not realy
<petrovicivan> look at http://ubuntu-rs.org/wiki/Share_it
<elmo> 'Membership - 999 as of 8th June 2007' - how are you counting that, JOOI?
<petrovicivan> that's the forum members
<petrovicivan> we have a very good forum population
<petrovicivan> it's the numer since May 2005
<elmo> ok
<petrovicivan> when we start. forum was the firts step
<petrovicivan> in creating our community
<jsgotangco> forum activity is nice
<rainmaker> forum is very nice place alsoo
<petrovicivan> yes, we have 23 messages per day
<petrovicivan> (average) since 2005
<petrovicivan> and hottest forum is Absoluty Beginners
<jsgotangco> i think this the forums is a good start
<dholbach> what are your plans for the next months? are there any events planned?
<jsgotangco> but i am quite intrigued by the ShareIT initiative
<rainmaker> a loot of peaple was start with ubuntu thanks to forum
<jsgotangco> with 8 members i am wondering how to cover 32 cities
<jsgotangco> 37 even
<jsgotangco> don't get me wrong, I think it is a fabulous initiative
<petrovicivan> sorry, when I say members I was thinking about coordinator team
<petrovicivan> not the whole LoCo
<dholbach> so how many members does your LoCo have?
<petrovicivan> over 1000
<jsgotangco> (nice keychains btw)
<petrovicivan> in Share it we have about active 50 members
<pygi> petrovicivan, uh, uh :) You don't count every forum member as a LoCo membership, right? :)
<petrovicivan> this is the list http://ubuntu-rs.org/wiki/Share_it
<petrovicivan> I little confised about the terminology
<jsgotangco> ok
<pygi> Got it. jsgotangco lemme try to get something :)
<petrovicivan> As you can see top team count 8 members
<pygi> petrovicivan, koliko clanova imate u Launchpad loco timu? Prijavljenih & prihvacenih?
<jsgotangco> yeah that would be great
<petrovicivan> but Share It action have about 50
<petrovicivan> pydi: sec
<pygi> petrovicivan, i da li imate neke uvjete kada osoba moze biti primljena u Launchapd serbia loco team?
<pygi> petrovicivan, k, nema problema
<pygi> (sorry about this folks, trying to help ya a bit ^_^)
<cypherbios> of course :)
<petrovicivan> Launchpad uglavnom vode clanovi GNOME
<petrovicivan> tima za prevodjenje, a ja sam tu aktivan samo kao prevodioc
<pygi> petrovicivan, moze link do launchpad loco tima?
<petrovicivan> pokusavam...
<dholbach> rosetta counts 85 serbian contributors
<pygi> dholbach, Launchpad loco team is being led mostly by the members of the Serbian GNOME translation team
<pygi> trying to fetch more info ^_^
<dholbach> I think it'd be nice to have that kind of number on the application
<dholbach> also plans for the next months or problems the team is working on
<pygi> petrovicivan, dodaj molim te u prijavu da je 85 ljudi aktivno na prevodjenju (da radi na njemu) i na prijavu bi jos trebali problemi na kojima radite i planovi mozda za iduci mjesec
<dholbach> I think that the Serbian LoCo is on the right track, but I feel it would be worth to share all that information on the approval page
<pygi> dholbach, translated :)
<petrovicivan> our plans are to make another Install Show
<petrovicivan> pygi: thx
<pygi> petrovicivan, nista, napisi to na prijavu ^_^
<pygi> dholbach, Installfest
<petrovicivan> were we organize presentation of Ubuntu installation for new users
<petrovicivan> and give then some talk about free software
<rainmaker> also we work in ubutnu popularization in serbia
<pygi> s/were/where
<jsgotangco> what are the current issues surrounding the loco team on effectively managing and implementing its goals to the community?
<jsgotangco> and how does the current membership address it?
<petrovicivan> because most of us are the part of FSN Srbija
<pygi> petrovicivan, razumijes sto su te sada pitali, jel ? :)
<petrovicivan> uglavnom, hajde pomozi da ne lupim
<petrovicivan> pitaju kako resavamo probleme u zajdnici?
<pygi> petrovicivan, pita koji su problemi trenutno oko loko tima oko rada u zajednici?
<pygi> i kako to pokusavate rijesiti
<petrovicivan> the current issue is building our wiki with all solved problems from the forum
<petrovicivan> we have a little help from Wikipedia Serbia, and that will be fine in the future
<rainmaker> we try to educate our members as much as we can
* elkbuntu notes the time
<petrovicivan> second, is advotacy in computer magazines
<jsgotangco> ok
<Zic> elkbuntu: huhu ;)
<petrovicivan> to spread a word of Ubuntu OS
<jsgotangco> from what I see there is great work being done here for the serbian team
<dholbach> MikeB-, jsgotangco, elmo: any more questions?
<petrovicivan> because few of our members are working part time job at this magazines
<MikeB-> none here
<petrovicivan> not to forget our GNUzilla
<petrovicivan> free software magazine
<pygi> dholbach, o did you see GNUzilla work?
<petrovicivan> that 3 of our members are editing
<pygi> it's pretty nice. Sometimes articles are not top quality, but ... they're working hard on that ^_^
<petrovicivan> http://gnuzilla.fsnserbia.org/
<pygi> petrovicivan, don't think they'll be able to read that :p
<elmo> not from me
<petrovicivan> ok, sorry
<dholbach> Ok. I'm happy with the efforts of the Serbian team and give a +1.
<petrovicivan> but it's the only magazine of that kind in local languange
<jsgotangco> i'm ok to give my approval as well
<MikeB-> +1 here
<pygi> petrovicivan, istina :)
<elmo> yeah, +1
<pygi> petrovicivan, cestitam
<jsgotangco> congrats serbian team!
<rainmaker> thanks
<dholbach> congratulations Serbia!
* ogra applauds
<lamalex> congrats!
<petrovicivan> that you guys
<jsgotangco> ok
<effraie> \o/
<coNP> congrat Serbian neighbours :)
<myriam_rs> congratulations from SwissTeam also :-)
<bashelier> effraie: :)
* jsgotangco wonders why brazilian team is here?
<AndreNoel> congrats
<Ubuntuser> Congrats petrovicivan .. ;)
<bashelier> congrats all ;)
<petrovicivan> :):)
* AndreNoel brazilian
* dholbach wonders too
<Vorian> Congrats!!!!11
<Ubuntuser> Ubuntuser.. from Brazil!
<cypherbios> Hi all, i't Brazil time now > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam
<jsgotangco> anyone from brazil explain why is there an application?
<jwendell> :)
<cypherbios> jsgotangco: I'll do
<jsgotangco> go for it
<AndreNoel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<cypherbios> please take a look at the approvalapplication page
<dholbach> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList the Brazilian team is not approved yet - I was sure it was approved already :)
<cypherbios> dholbach: Not yet :)
* OgMaciel not yet
<Fujitsu> It has been around for eeeever. It must be!
<OgMaciel> :)
<jwendell> merely formality...
<OgMaciel> hehe
<OgMaciel> exactly
* pygi gives +3
<rpereira> :-)
<AndreNoel> :)
<cypherbios> but please, take a look at the approvalapplication page before (at least) hehehe
<Ubuntuser> :] 
<cypherbios> Don't miss our website http://www.ubuntu-br.org/
<jsgotangco> ubuntu-br open week, similar to ubuntu's?
<Ubuntuser> yeah
<cypherbios> yes
<dholbach> do you plan to run any events in the next time as a loco? where does your action concentrate?
<jsgotangco> seems every region is well covered, nice!
<cypherbios> dholbach: We already does. We always represent Ubuntu in the principal FLOSS events in brazil
<jsgotangco> (familiar names even)
<jwendell> s/principal/main
<OgMaciel> dholbach: we have already participated in several large sized events as a LoCo
<rpereira> And we always has a national meeting at International Forum of Free Software.
<cypherbios> jsgotangco: yes, 16 of 26 states are officially covered
* elkbuntu wonders why this actually needs discussion... :
<pygi> cyphase, what? You're not covering 27 states? o.O
<jwendell> :)
<OgMaciel> elkbuntu: hehehe
<pygi> elkbuntu, ++
<pygi> let's just give +3 and be done with it :)
<rpereira> elkbuntu: :-)
<OgMaciel> HAHAHAHA
<jsgotangco> elkbuntu: because
<jsgotangco> anyways
<cypherbios> heheh, thanks
<AndreNoel> :)
<jsgotangco> i'm more than happy to give my vote, but this is a very good example of a big country diversified in the efforts of building a country-covered loco
<jsgotangco> each state has clear goals and reps
<cypherbios> someone has mentioned we have 17 ubuntumembers?
<Whopper> Ok
<AndreNoel> cypherbios: 16
* myriam_rs gets herself some icecream
<Ubuntuser> thanks jsgotangco ..
<cypherbios> that's what I said :)
<Whopper> Did coreymon77 come on?
<jsgotangco> dholbach elmo MikeB- votes?
<elmo> +1
<rpereira> Guys, I'll have to take my fiancee to the doctor. I hope our community got +inf points. :-)
<elmo> (trivial)
<dholbach> yes, I agree with jsgotangco - everywhere I looked seemed to be healthy brazilian ubuntu action going on - the forums, the wiki, the planet, etc: +1 from me
<AndreNoel> :D
<jsgotangco> \o/
* dshufelt closes his laptop and heads to work.  (Please contact via dshufelt@gmail.com if needed)
<pygi> dholbach, they are even getting own planetoid!!! :)
* pygi hides
<pygi> o well :p
<rpereira> Thanks elmo and dholbach.
<Zic> does somebody know if sabdfl will come ?
<MikeB-> +1
<jsgotangco> ok let's move to pennsylvania
<jsgotangco> yay
<Ubuntuser> :D
<jsgotangco> Zic: i doubt he'll come today
<cypherbios> Sounds really great! Thanks all!
<rpereira> :-)
<freelancer317> That's us! I'm the team contact!
<dholbach> congratulations :)
<freelancer317> Our application page is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<Zic> jsgotangco: ok ... thx
<jsgotangco> Bret?
<freelancer317> Congrats to Brazil!
<jsgotangco> ahh
<pleia2> I'm here for pennsylvania too :)
<AndreNoel> thanks!!
<freelancer317> That's me
<OgMaciel> :)
<jedijf> pa here
<rpereira> Thanks everybody. :)
<Joe_CoT> I'm not from Pennsylvania, but i live very close!
<jedijf> congrats serbia and brazil!!
<lamalex> PA here
* etank is cheering for pennsylvania \o/
<Ubuntuser> this is begin... ;)
<teddy-dbear> Pa here
<freelancer317> Thank you for the opportunity to review our application to become and approved Local Community Team! First off we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the great people who have joined this team, and although I started it, without them, there would be no application in front of you now, nor would there be for a very long time.
* andrew is here for PA
<freelancer317> The US-Pennsylvania LoCo Team was established in March by freelancer317 (Bret Fledderjohn) with the assistance of Vorian (Ohio Team Contact). Since that time, we have grown to 51 direct members on Launchpad. We have also established strong bonds with active LUGs, had four successful events, and are building several ongoing projects and events which will not only spread the word about Ubuntu, but also (in many
<freelancer317> cases) will help make our local communities better places.
<freelancer317> http://www.meetlinux.com is our website.
<dholbach> what has the team been concentrating on in the last time? how did you find new members?
<freelancer317> We've initially been working with LUGs and several Nonprofits
<lamalex> We've been working with a lot of non-profits to help under priveleged people benefit from technology and free software
<freelancer317> the forum and Launchpad have also been attracting alot of attention
<jedijf> and with local lugs to cross-promote events
<freelancer317> We had a joint installfest with the Central PA LUG and we had our own installfest in Philly
<jsgotangco> i see lots of activites with non-profits on the website
<jedijf> that is an ongoing thing - now that we've started relationships, the projects flow from one to the next
* myriam_rs cheers for US-Pennsilvania LoCo Team too!
<dholbach> that sounds good - launchpad says you have 55 members - do you have a chance to meet often as a team?
<pleia2> thanks myriam_rs :)
<freelancer317> We are also putting together a statewide media contact list, and will have a subteam working on distributing press releases and interacting with the media
<lamalex> not in person as a whole team
<lamalex> pennsylvania is a large state
<freelancer317> dholbach outside of irc meetings, no
<jedijf> weekly irc chats
<lamalex> wednesday nights, 8:30pm est
<jedijf> and active daily irc contact
<jsgotangco> yeah i saw the calendar
<freelancer317> we have subteams that cover the different regions
<Vorian> Pennsylvania has been doing wonderful things in the name of Ubuntu.  I strongly recommend them for a +1
<freelancer317> Thanks Vorian
<jsgotangco> how is the team preparing for SFD?
* etank agrees with Vorian 
<jedijf> we are promoting a major event with PACS - phila area computer society -
<lamalex> philly team is working with the philly area computer society for a large bbq/speech/party
<freelancer317> Well, there is an event being planned up in the northeastern part of the state. Philly is planning a big thing with PACS, and Harrisburg is working with CPULG
<jedijf> providing a speaker and demonstrations from 8 am to 3 pm
<freelancer317> oops cplug
<lamalex> :P
<freelancer317> we hope to have an event in most major cities and towns in PA
<freelancer317> Pittsburgh is in the infancy of developing the event
<dholbach> nice - the team looks well organized to me
<lamalex> they are beginning to form in pittsburg
<lamalex> there is interest, but it hasn't fully come together. Progress is being made and other regions are encouraging them
<freelancer317> dholbach thanks!  We've got a real good core group of people working to get this going
<jsgotangco> a lot of stuff looks solid to me as well, but i advice taking advantage of SFD to have a big get-together, should be fun, the bbq party is a nice touch, i give my +1
<dholbach> I'm happy to give a +1 for Pennsylvania as well
<MikeB-> +1 for me
<freelancer317> thanks dholbach and jsgotangco and MikeB!
<dholbach> elmo?
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> congratulations! :)
* lamalex throws his cap
<dholbach> ok, let's move on to member applications
<myriam_rs> Congratulations from the SwissTeam to Pennsylvania LoCO Team!
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<dholbach> bashelier: it's your stage
<Vorian> Yay Pennsylvania!!!!!!
<freelancer317> thanks myriam_rs!
<Vorian> Congrats!1
<bashelier> :)
<bashelier> Hello, my name is Arthur, I'm a "long" date (almost 4 years iirc) Debian user and began using Ubuntu on Hoary release. After a few years of using then, I've tried to get a bit involved in development, and started with packaging. Since I've packed a couple of softs and quickly decided to upload them in Debian rather than in Ubuntu, first because I'd rather see my packages in all Debian-based distributions and not just in Ubuntu, second becau
<freelancer317> Thanks to everyone!
<bashelier> here is my wikipage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArthurLoiret
<dholbach> bashelier: your first paste was truncated
* pygi vouches for bashelier, as he doesn't mind working at 4AM :P
<dholbach> bashelier: "... just in Ubuntu, second beca"
<bashelier> dholbach: here it is... http://pastebin.ca/590296
<dholbach> "...second because I was also very interested in contributing to Debian. Today, I'm trying to do my best to make clean packages, sync, merges, bug fixes, patches, and began to set up a few Debian/Ubuntu related projects."
<bashelier> second because I was also very interested in contributing to Debian. Today, I'm trying to do my best to make clean packages, sync, merges, bug fixes, patches, and began to set up a few Debian/Ubuntu related projects.
<bashelier> yup :)
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<dholbach> bashelier: what are you further plans in the MOTU world?
<bashelier> dholbach: I'd like to be able to offer mentoring to new packagers on french irc classroom chans in a first time
<jsgotangco> anyone here advocating for bashelier?
* Adri2000 +1's bashelier for his great involvement in many part of Ubuntu, especially in packaging :)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: !
<dholbach> there seems to be a lot of good stuff going on in the french motu community - do you think the MOTU community at large could learn from them?
<pygi> jsgotangco, I am
<Adri2000> parts* :)
<effraie> +1 here too :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, +1 for him
<Burgundavia> ugh. 7am. Morning everybody
<jsgotangco> =)
<pygi> morning Burgundavia
<Hobbsee> morning Burgundavia
<dholbach> hi Burgundavia
<bashelier> dholbach: could... the french community is iirc the oly one whose has a classroom chan, to help
<Sp4rKy> if it's really needed, +1 for bashelier and all the great work he has already done
<bashelier> :)
<gsuveg> re
<dholbach> great - it'd be nice to hear more about that, but maybe not in this meeting
<bashelier> dholbach: packages from french new packagers are reviewed almost every days on #ubuntu-fr-classroom, for example
<dholbach> that's amazing - it'd be nice if we could adapt that
<effraie> but packaging is one one of the many goals for *classroom ^^
<dholbach> right
<gpocentek> french people are very bad english speaker, we needed to do something ;)
<effraie> ^^
<Sp4rKy> gpocentek: +1
<bashelier> ^^'
<dholbach> as I've worked together with bashelier before, I don't have any more questions - MikeB-, jsgotangco, elmo?
<jsgotangco> i'm good +1
<MikeB-> none here, looks like a very well done app
<MikeB-> +1
<Zic> bashelier is involved on other projects in ubuntu-fr-classroom (see his wiki page)
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> +1 - bashelier did excellent work in the MOTU team already, so hope to see him as a MOTU soon :)
<dholbach> thanks bashelier
<gpocentek> congrats bashelier :)
<jsgotangco> congrats!
<bashelier> thanks :)
<dholbach> viperio does not seem to be around
<Sp4rKy> congrats !!!
* myriam_rs flicite bashelier :-)
<effraie> \o/ bashelier
<bashelier> myriam_rs: :] 
<dholbach> effraie: your stage
<jsgotangco> ok effraie nxt
<effraie> so, hello all
<effraie> i'm the perrfect example of french bad english spoker
<bashelier> +1!
* bashelier runs
<effraie> I'm 25 year old educator: i work in french public hospital, with psychotic teenagers. I know, it's really not related to ubuntu ^^ (but very close related to me)
<effraie> Ubuntu related pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Effraie | https://launchpad.net/~effraie
<effraie> I'm linux user since mandrake 9.2 (2001 if i correctly remember) and ubuntu user since warty stable release.
<effraie> As powerpc user, my first involvment in ubuntu was contributing in ppc section on french ubuntu forums.
<effraie> I setted up a third-part repository ( http://mental-ppc.tuxfamily.org/ ) with a friend, in order to provide some missing and/or buggy packages for ppc arch ( i think i was the first to release beryl & e17 packages for ppc, and i provide an xkb-data including a correct french apple keymap (2 examples the kind of packages we can provide).Now, i'm building medibuntu-ppc packages.
<effraie> I did learn to package on #ubuntu-fr-classroom (with gpocentek, mr_pouit...) and that classroom was my second most important involvment in ubuntu: i think that kind of project is a *very* powerfull way to involved new people in free software, and to make their skills growing up.
<effraie> That project is still growing up, and is certainly now the main place for "power-user" involvement in french ubuntu community.
<effraie> I did wrote many pieces of french "ubuntu on powerpc" documentation (see http://blog.effraie.org/tag/PowerPC ). I did really recently crashed my ibook, but it was the beginning for a new project i launched with bashelier: MefaB, wich stand for "mental farm buildd", wich main goal is to provide an easy way for repository admins and users to set up or contribute for decentralized build-farm.
<effraie> After have maintaining ubuntu-fr website for some time, i'm now one of the 2 "new" fr locoteam administrator. (cause the 3 currents admins are slowly switching to new/others projects/stuffs )
<effraie> well...
<effraie> done :|
<bashelier> I *fully* support effraie's application, he has shown he was involved in many parts of Ubuntu tasks, in the french community
<fernando> bashelier, congrats
<bashelier> thanks fernando
<gpocentek> effraie is very very active in the french community since a while
<skateinmars> As a french ubuntu user (planet member, irc channels moderator), I'd like to advocate for effraie as he is really active in the french community.
<dholbach> effraie: it seems that none of your packages made it into Ubuntu yet - do you have plans for your packages to go into Ubuntu proper?
<Adri2000> all the french community supports effraie's application! :) I do as well :)
<effraie> well, most of the package i did build was still in ubuntu, but not suitable on powerpc
<effraie> they are, now
<dholbach> ah ok, what about e17?
<effraie> well, i think rasterman has some reason for not including e17 in ubuntu, that's not *really* my business. but
<effraie> i'm building packages for the
<Sp4rKy> effraie help me and lutin on E17 repository
<effraie> ubuntu related edevelop repo
<Sp4rKy> helps*
<effraie> so, if the get into ubuntu..
<seb128> why not sending patches for buggy packages and contributing to MOTU rather than distributing there elsewhere?
<dholbach> I just know that there have been many people who asked for e17 packages already - it'd be great to have them
<bashelier> here is a sample of one of effraie's projects, take a look :) http://mefab.ff-irc.net/
<Sp4rKy> dholbach: indeed, we're agree with you
<effraie> seb128: cause i was really not enough involved in community when i begin to do this
<Sp4rKy> anyway, rasterman, the main dev of E17, doesn't want we include this wm in official repos
* myriam_rs would love to see e17 in Ubuntu too, one of the best looking shell-managers ever
<Zic> because E17 is still in development
<effraie> s/dev/huge dev
<Zic> :)
<Sp4rKy> so we built a third party repository, and effraie manages the ppc builds
<Sp4rKy> myriam_rs: there is a 3rd party repo :)
<dholbach> ok, let's move the e17 discussion to some other place - I didn't want to stir that up
<dholbach> effraie: do you plan to become a MOTU?
<myriam_rs> Sp4rKy: I know, I already use e17 in Ubuntu :-)
<effraie> but, the main moint of this application is ubuntu-fr locoteam, not my packaging stuff, i think
<effraie> so, dholbach why not, but it's not my main goal
<effraie> s/moint/point
<dholbach> I'd encourage you :)
<effraie> thanks ^^
<jsgotangco> effraie: right, thanks for pointing that out, i was about to ask about your plans for the loco
<effraie> ubuntu fr locoteam is a huge community, and there a lot of work
<dholbach> for how long have you been involved in the loco?
<effraie> well, the fr loco is an asociation, covered by french law
<effraie> the, the "offficial" membership is a bit complex
<dholbach> I need to step out for just a few minutes - we should still have quorum with Burgundavia around though. brb.
<Burgundavia> ok
<effraie> i'm acting in it from 1 or 2 years
<effraie> but i''m an "official" member still 3 or 4 month
<Burgundavia> what are the requirements to get in?
<effraie> be involved
<effraie> but the main point is not to be "official" membeer
<effraie> there is only 9 official member
<effraie> cause of law related complexity
<effraie> but
<Burgundavia> aside from being a member and the website stuff, what else have you been doing with the -fr locoteam?
<effraie> the main core for ubuntu-fr community is about 20/30 people
<effraie> well, i'm working on french planet, forums, parties, -classroom...
<jsgotangco> french parties? =)
<effraie> representaion, contact with other french free software organisations
<effraie> jsgotangco: yep
<bashelier> jsgotangco: we got 1300 people on last french install party
<jsgotangco> 0_0
<Zic> jsgotangco: and a second edition is planned
<effraie> and for the next one, we did invitte sam hocevar, new DPL
<Zic> about Ubuntu Studio version
<bashelier> :)
<effraie> for a talk
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> based on activities, I'm happy to give +1
<effraie> one of my prefered project is the classroom channel
<effraie> wich is a very powerfull medium to involved
<effraie> -d people
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> any more questions for effraie?
<MikeB-> none here +1
<effraie> :)
<Burgundavia> +1 for me
<johnc4510> :)  i'm here
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<jsgotangco> great!
<dholbach> congratulations effraie
<Sp4rKy> congrats effraie :)
<gpocentek> congrats effraie ! :)
<lamalex> congrats!
<Adri2000> congrats effraie!
<effraie> thanks :)
<bashelier> congrats effraie!
<jsgotangco> johnc4510: go for it
<Zic> congrats effraie \o/
<johnc4510> Hi, I'm John Crawford (Ubuntero) A founding member and team leader of the Ubuntu-Arizona Loco Team. Here is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Johnc4510?action=show and our team page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam?action=show and my Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~johnc4510-cox Thank you for your consideration. :->
* myriam_rs flicitations effraie!
<effraie> thank you, myriam_rs
<jsgotangco> "The hottest loco on earth"
* br24 from AZ team is here for johnc4510
<Vorian> I'm here to cheer for johnc4510!!!
<johnc4510> ty br24
<Vorian> johnc4510 has been the driving force behind the Arizona LoCo team.  He lives the values of Ubuntu, and is open to accepting all who wish to participate on the Arizona team.  John thoughtfully sends out weekly newsletters to all in the team.  I strongly recommend a +1 for johnc4510
<johnc4510> ty Vorian
<johnc4510> :)
<br24> johnc4510 has provided good direction for all members of the AZ team in reaching our goals
<jsonder> John4510 _is_ organized
<etank> I would like to cheer for johnc4510. He and his team have been doing some great stuff. Our team (Kentucky) has benefited from some of the ideas that he has started.
<johnc4510> jsonder: ty
<johnc4510> etank: ty
<MikeB-> atoponce asked me to send this endorsement of johnc4510
<etank> +1 for johnc4510 from me
<MikeB->  johnc4510 has been a great asset to the az team. they have flourished under his leadership and are easily heading for team approval. it would be a great asset to the ubuntu membership to add him as member
* johnc4510 thanks atoponce 
<jsgotangco> its also listed in his wiki page
<dholbach> johnc4510: you say you want to structure the goals for the az team - do you have any plans already?
<johnc4510> our plans are to advocate ubuntu and open source
<johnc4510> we want to pull in the lugs in state to begin with
<johnc4510> also to use libraries to distribute cd's
<johnc4510> also use colleges for demos
<johnc4510> we are a new team     just since april 12 of 05
<johnc4510> organizing has been our first goal
<johnc4510> now on to spreading ubuntu
<johnc4510> :P\
<dholbach> did you have any problems/challenges with the organisation?
<johnc4510> not really, things kind of feel into place
<johnc4510> over 40 members in launchpad in 2 months
<johnc4510> :)
<Vorian> WOW!
<Vorian> :)
* johnc4510 says Vorian has been a great help
* johnc4510 says atoponce also
<jsgotangco> looks good to me
<johnc4510> team members have been exceptional
* br24 says AZ team would not be here without johnc4510
<johnc4510> br24: ty
<dholbach> any more questions?
<jsgotangco> i give my +1
<etank> woot johnc4510
<johnc4510> My thanks to all, especially Vorian, atoponce, etank , br24 and jsonder for coming.
<dholbach> +1 from me too - lots of good contributions and good coordination with other teams
* johnc4510 thanks all   
<MikeB-> +1 for me, fantastic work
<johnc4510> MikeB-: ty
<dholbach> Burgundavia, elmo?
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<dholbach> congratulations johnc4510 :)
<effraie> congrats johnc4510 :)
<Vorian> CONGRATS JOHNC4510!!!!!!
<johnc4510> dholbach: ty
<Vorian> \o/
<br24> congrats johnc4510!!!
<dholbach> Jacob: your stage
<jsgotangco> johnc4510: keep it up! may the AZ team be hotter by august
* johnc4510 smiles
<Jacob> Hi! I'm Jacob Peddicord, otherwise known as jacobmp92 or just Jacob. I've been using Ubuntu for a little more than a year now, and I'm currently running Gutsy regardless of all warnings ;). My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JacobPeddicord & LP: https://launchpad.net/~jacobmp92
<johnc4510> jsgotangco: hope so
* myriam_rs congrats johnc4510 :-)
<johnc4510> myriam_rs: ty
<Jacob> I've been a member of the Ohio LoCo Team since back when it started in late November. I help run our IRC channel and website. I also wrote the support system used on the site, currently available to LoCo teams on Launchpad as "loco-drupal-support".
<Jacob> I also am currently the leader for the Unanswered Posts Team on the forums. While this team is relatively new, we currently have some interesting methods for dealing with topics, one of them including an off-site tracker used internally by the team.
<Jacob> My future plans include releasing some tools to help new LoCo teams to get a website up and running with Drupal quickly, going to Ohio Linux Fest, and continuing to use and support Ubuntu. </Jacob>
<Vorian> :)
<Vorian> I'm here to cheer for Jacob!
<Vorian> Jacob is one of the strongest members on the Ohio LoCo team.  He is the Moderator of the Ohio LoCo Forum.  He it the Team Leader of the Unanswered Posts team on Ubuntu Forums.  He is the webmaster for the Ohio LoCo team.
<jsgotangco> nice team
<jsgotangco> =)
<Vorian> He developed the F2F (Face To Face Support) Feature for the Ohio Website http://Ohio.ubuntu-us.org. Which is described here http://vorian.org/?p=64. Jacob cleaned up the code so that all loco teams could have it (even Canonical was asking for it) If it weren't't for Jacob, our LoCo team would be half of what it is today.
<Admiral_Chicago> which rocks btw, I came to give him a big up just for that system.
<Jacob> thanks Vorian :)
<meatballhat> I'm also here to cheer for Jacob!   Jacob has been a great asset to our LoCo Team, and I strongly believe that he will be an even greater asset to the Ubuntu Community as a whole.  He has the technical background to grow into a strong member of the developement community, and also has interpersonal communication skills that are hard to come by.  for member in OhioLoCoTeam: meatballhat.cheers(Jacob)
<Vorian> Besides all that, Jacob is a stand up gentleman and a scholar, well deserving of Ubuntu Membership.
<Jacob> thanks also meatballhat :)
<jsgotangco> Jacob: what would you like to focus in the coming days/months?
<phanatic> dholbach: i'm here to cheer for coNP, but have to run now, so here is my testimonial: as the loco leader for the hungarian ubuntu team, i can tell that he's been a great help with administering our virtual machine, and also helped to organize super cool ubuntu t-shirts for the masses in hungary. i hope he'll become an ubuntu member, he deserves it (i've also seen several uploads by him recently :))
<Jacob> jsgotangco: I'd like to focus my work probably around the LoCo tool systems i've been developing
<dholbach> thanks phanatic
<etank> I would like to cheer for Jacob as well. Our team has started using the F2F module that he wrote. He is always willing to help and seems to be a great guy.
<Jacob> :)
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> there are lots of testimonials happening
<gsuveg> dholbach: i need run out within 20min too. im work with coNP on website and t-shirt project. i hope to he'll become an umbuntu member.
<Vorian> jsgotangco, that's because jacob is so awesome :)
<Jacob> hehe
<etank> amen
<jsgotangco> judging from LP activity, its all good
<jsgotangco> happy to give +1
<Burgundavia> if people need to give a testimonial, PM any of teh CC members and we can paste it when it is time
<MikeB-> +1 here
<dholbach> how many members does the unansweredposts team have?
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<Jacob> dholbach: somewhere around 25 currently I think
<Jacob> http://ubuntuforums.org/showgroups.php at the bottom
<dholbach> nice - keep up the good work on that - I think it's a fabulous idea
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<jsgotangco> answering the unanswered posts in a sensible way?
<jsgotangco> =)
<Jacob> yep:)
<jsgotangco> rock, just like blatant erros and awkward grammar ;-)
<Vorian> His team does an awesome job with that jsgotangco
<Jacob> heh
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<jsgotangco> great, Burgundavia, elmo?
<jsgotangco> nice!
<jsgotangco> congrats Jacob!
<Jacob> :-D
<jsgotangco> Joe_CoT: next
<Joe_CoT> :)
<etank> congrats Jacob
<Vorian> \o/ Jacob !!!!!!!
<Joe_CoT> Hello. I'm Joe Terranova, and I'm the team leader for the New Jersey Local Community Team. Since I took over the team in November, I've been working to get our team active and approved, and I've been organizing events and recruiting in the New Jersey Area. As well, I've been working with the Pennsylvania team to help them with their events in the Philly area as they got started as a team.
* myriam_rs sends congratulations to Jacob:-)
<Joe_CoT> I'm happy to see the Pennsylvania Team get approved today, and hopefully I'll be back here with my team in the following months. My approval application is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoeTerranova
* christinaeater cheers for Joe_CoT
<Jacob> thanks etank, Vorian, meatballhat, and anyone else i missed :)
* jedijf cheers from pa for Joe_CoT
<johnc4510> Jacob: congrats
<pleia2> I'm here to support Joe_CoT, I've worked with him on a couple projects with the PA LoCo team, he did a whole presentation about Ubuntu at one of our events that had a pretty outstanding audience and reception
* etank cheers for Joe_CoT too :) 
<lamalex> yay joe_cot +1!!
* Vorian cheers for Joe_CoT as well :)
<Joe_CoT> lamalex, you're not on the CC, but thanks ;D
<lamalex> hah not yet
<MikeB-> he is a thumbs up from atoponce for joe_CoT: <atoponce> Joe_CoT has been very active in the US Teams project, willing to help where he can. he's been a great asset to both the NJ team (his home team) and the PA team, and very active in the community. he would make a great addition as well
<etank> i second what atoponce had to say.
<Burgundavia> let me say again how pleased I am that the US teams are helping each other out this way
<jsgotangco> i agree
<Joe_CoT> hey, PA's only a bridge away :)
<jsgotangco> and the NJ team photo looksl ike that of a rock band
<dholbach> Joe_CoT: what have you been focusing on in getting the loco team started?
<Joe_CoT> jedijf has been flyering for my NJ event for weeks
* jedijf likes joisey and Joe_CoT
<jsgotangco> how did the june installfest go
<Joe_CoT> We had 2 regional meetings to get people interested; one in South Jersey, one in Central. I've been recruiting at the local LUGs, and working with them for events -- we're having an installfest with CHLUG this saturday.
<Joe_CoT> Hopefully another with Princeton LUG in August.
<jsgotangco> oopss it hasnt happened yet
<Joe_CoT> I did a presentation at Cherry Hill LUG which picked up 3 members, we've gathered a few for Lug/IP, and I'll be in princeton in August for a stump speech there
<jsgotangco> nice preparation though
<Joe_CoT> thanks
<jsgotangco> "he is always just a bridge toll away"
<jsgotangco> :D
<Joe_CoT> We have 48 members on Launchpad -- in reality, around 4 or 5 active. Hopefully I'll get that number a bit higher soon, and I'll be back here for my team ;)
<jedijf> and on most days he can scrape up the toll :)
<jsgotangco> i think that's a very good start
<jsgotangco> hmm hold on someone's screaming outside and its past 10pm here
<jsgotangco> brb
<dholbach> MikeB-, Burgundavia, elmo: any more questions for Joe_CoT?
<Burgundavia> nope
<dholbach> Joe_CoT has my thumbs up too: +1 - good work on leading the team
<Burgundavia> +1 for another excellent US team
<MikeB-> nope +1
<Joe_CoT> elmo? :)
<dholbach> ok, shall we move on? elmo and jsgotangco (hope everything's alright at his end) will cast their votes in a bit
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> welcome Joe_CoT
* jedijf congratulates Joe_CoT - next toll is on me :)
<Joe_CoT> :) thanks guys, and thanks to everyone who came to support me
<etank> congrats Joe_CoT
<dholbach> coreymoon77 does not seem to be around
<Jacob> congrats Joe_CoT!
<dholbach> calc: your stage
* myriam_rs congrats Joe_CoT
<jsgotangco> doh
<calc> Hello, my name is Chris. I've been a Linux user since Slackware 2.1 (03/1995). I have been involved with Debian for 9 years, and a Debian Developer for 7 of those. I have maintained various packages for Debian including KDE and Xiph.org packages. I also wrote kde.mk for cdbs and menu-xdg. I have used Ubuntu since the 4.10 preview (Sept 2004), and am the new Ubuntu OpenOffice.org maintainer.
<lamalex> yay joe!!
<ogra> yay calc !
<Vorian> congats Joe_CoT :)
<jsgotangco> a neighbor had his tv really loud and was watching big brother sheeshh
* ogra cheers
<keescook> \o/ calc
<jsgotangco> i'm +1 for Joe_CoT
<bryce> yay calc!
<asac> hey calc!
* pochu cheers calc. He's been doing a great job with all kind of bugs, and helping out!
<calc> hello everyone :)
<Riddell> I support calc, Kubuntu uses much of his KDE work
<dholbach> calc: I've seen you quite often around in ubuntu channels, even before you become OO.o maintainer - when did you join the ubuntu community?
<calc> dholbach: i started using ubuntu and joined the irc channels around Sept 2004
<jsgotangco> right
<ogra> dholbach, he was around in #ubuntu when both of us were no motus yet :)
<jsgotangco> lots of history
<dholbach> on your way with the community, did you see things you'd like to see improved in Ubuntu and the community as a whole?
<calc> i remember using ubuntu on my amd64 laptop at Gnome Summit 2004 which was early oct 2004
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team
<calc> one place i saw that could use some improvement is that Texas doesn't have loco yet, there is a Dallas loco and Houston has a few people that have started one, but needs more coordination
<calc> i have been thinking about trying to help out with the Houston one or trying to form a state loco
<dholbach> nice
<calc> Houston's meetings seem to occur mostly on the south side which is ~ 70mi away
<jsgotangco> yeah i noticed that on the wiki page
<dinda> calc: there are several folks from the Woodlands who want meetings up there
<calc> dinda: that sounds good then, i know several people in Huntsville that also want to have a group, so that could work out nicely
<dholbach> Burgundavia, jsgotangco, elmo, MikeB-: questions?
<calc> dinda: Conroe is around 20-30m away from both locations
<jsgotangco> i'm pretty happy +1
<Burgundavia> seems good to me
<Burgundavia> +!
<jsgotangco> i'm surprised though that its only now
<elmo> presumptive +1
<Burgundavia> +1, rather
* ScottK says +1 for calc
<dinda> I'm down in Galveston so I end up driving into Houston for meetings and I help organize them
<MikeB-> +1 here
<calc> dinda: ah, yea houston metro is a very large area
<dholbach> +1 from me too, welcome calc
* elkbuntu ushers the LoCo talk into #ubuntu-locoteams
<calc> thanks all for supporting my application for member :)
<dholbach> I think we've run out of time - is the kernel team around already?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<BenC> yeah :)
<ogra> welcome calc
<dholbach> so sorry everybody for not getting around to your application, we'll announce a new meeting time shortly
<BenC> dholbach: we wait patiently, take your time
<hjmf> oops :(
<hjmf> I was the next one
<bryce> heh, I just missed it
<jsgotangco> let's get to it then
<BenC> dholbach: we have a short kernel meeting, so if you need more time...
<dholbach> elmo, MikeB-, jsgotangco, Burgundavia: do you know who will do the approvals in launchpad?
<jsgotangco> anyone of us can actually do that
<myriam_rs> sad, I was waiting too and don't know if I can make it next time :-(
<jsgotangco> i'll start approving
* coNP as well / neither
<dholbach> we have 8 more members on the list
<jsgotangco> i don't think we can cover all 8
<coNP> in fact only 7
<MikeB-> I just got a helpdesk call, and have to head out
<WaVeR> :o
<dholbach> ok, better adjourn then.
<MikeB-> sorry all
<dholbach> sorry everybody
<hjmf> :( OK
<peanutb> whens the next one?
<jsgotangco> well just prioritise starting from hjmf
<jsgotangco> in 2 weeks
<jsgotangco> but we'll have to adjust the sched
<peanutb> grr I'll be in europe
<jsgotangco> perhaps 21UTC and up
<hjmf> not sure If I'll be available then, I'm pretty busy
<myriam_rs> could we have a timeslot ASAP? I can't attend during daytime on other days than Mondays and Tuesdays :-(
<dholbach> we'll find a time for everybody
<elkbuntu> dholbach, famous last words
<jsgotangco> we'll make sure to have a sched by next week
<WaVeR> Or check the wiki page for everybody and approve them :D
<dholbach> have a nice day everybody - BenC the channel is all yours
<BenC> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> elkbuntu: if not this meeting, then the next
<jsgotangco> there's no rush to membership no?
<BenC> pkl_, kylem, amitk, rtg_: ping
<rtg_> BenC: pong
<amitk> benc: pong
<pkl_> yeah I'm here
<kylem> yawn.
<BenC> This is going to be quick actually
<zul> just lurking
<BenC> Team status: you guys one to shoot a one or two liner on anything you're working on?
<BenC> tossing back a pint doesn't count either :)
<rtg_> Audio hibernate
<pkl_> well that's been my main activity the last five days over Glastonbury
<amitk> Intel poulsbo patches
<pkl_> livecd, unionfs 2.0
<cr3> KVM access and reporting hardware information on certification.canonical.com for Tribe-2 certification round
<amitk> fixing up wiki instructions for reporting kernel bugs
<kylem> display bugs
<rtg_> madwifi in l-r-m
<BenC> Anything you guys need help with, any issues we maybe need to address?
<amitk> being a general busybody - to try and figure out what is what in ubuntu
<BenC> amitk: we'll consider that one on-going :)
<BenC> Now if I can just figure out how to pull up a list of distro-qa bugs on linux-source-2.6.22
<cr3> BenC: I may need your feedback this week about the relevance of the hardware reported on certification.canonical.com
<BenC> cr3: Ok...do you want to setup a time with me to talk about that? Steve is supposed to be getting me a salesforce account so I can add the hardware the kernel team has
<BenC> and I'll probably need some training on how to use it
<cr3> BenC: last week, I managed to get some salesforce changes committed so that I can integrate synchronize the hardware in salesforce and certification.canonical.com
<cr3> BenC: so, you and your team might not even need to deal with salesforce at all
<cr3> BenC: I'll ping sg about it to make sure he agrees
<BenC> cr3: mdz wants me to track all of our hw and its location
<BenC> and we very much need to
<cr3> BenC: yep, that'll be done automatically with this integration
<BenC> how will you guys even know what hw we have? :)
<cr3> BenC: I totally agree, keeping hardware in multiple locations is a pain: salesforce, wiki, etc.
<cr3> BenC: anyways, we'll follow up on this topic outside this meeting :)
<BenC> cr3: sure thing
<BenC> Well, I'm having problems figuring out distro-qa, or if it was renamed
<BenC> Ah, think I have it
<BenC> Hmm, no qa bugs on 2.6.22
<BenC> 4 on 2.6.20 though
<BenC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-qa/?field.searchtext=linux-source-2.6.20&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<BenC> there's the nice long URL
<BenC> Only two are publicly visible
<BenC> kylem: you know anything about 119977?
<BenC> or bug #119976
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119976 in linux-source-2.6.20 "All the task previous are killed after resumed from S3 on Santa Rosa with Crestline" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119976
<BenC> both are crestline/santa rosa related
<kylem> no. i can't test it, since mine doesn't have an acpi bios.
<kylem> s/test/reproduce/
<BenC> kylem: do we need to address them in feisty, and has the submitter tested them in gutsy?
<kylem> it seems to be feisty fom reading the bug report.
<BenC> well I know it's against feisty, but do you think we need to worry about fixing them there :)
<kylem> no, we should focus on gutsy for now.
<BenC> Ok, can you request they test with tribe-2 then?
<kylem> sure.
<BenC> If you think we wont fix them for feisty, then maybe mark them "Wont fix"
<BenC> kylem: thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<BenC> Bulk of the meeting is done...any one have anything they want to toss in before we cut out?
<pkl_> nope
<BenC> Ok, then everyone have a good week...the kernel team will be reporting from london on the next meeting :)
<zul> not from the community...
<BenC> thanks everyone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<freepenguin> hello everybody
<coreymon77> i cant believe that after all this time and all this preparation
<coreymon77> i end up missing the CC meeting
<ScottK> coreymon77: They didn't get to everybody anyway.  You'd have gotten rescheduled even if you'd been there.
<coreymon77> why, because i was a bit farther down the list?
<ScottK> coreymon77: Yes.
<ScottK> Most of the meeting was taken up by the new loco teams.  They only did a few new members.
<coreymon77> ScottK: correction, they would have gotetn to me
<coreymon77> talk about annoying
<myriam_rs> hi coreymon77 :-)
<coreymon77> hi
<myriam_rs> seen my mail?
<coreymon77> ya
<ScottK> OK.  Sorry then.
<coreymon77> i am completely up the creek now
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-27
<pygi> i
<Ubuntu-Craft> :-[
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<RichEd> edubuntu meeting about to start ... take your seats ...
<pygi> hey RichEd
<RichEd> 1 min to collect coffee
<RichEd> hi pygi
<pips1> hi
* ogra waves with fresh coffee in his hands
<RichEd> ogra: you want to kick off with technical
<ogra> sure
<ogra> please este tribe2 images !
* RichEd watches oliver spill the coffee while waving it
<ogra> http://www.ksta.de/html/artikel/1179819882951.shtml
<ogra> err
<ogra> damned, wrong paste, ignore taht
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20070626.2/
<ogra> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20070627/
<ogra> please test these
<ogra> the server CD will suffer from bug #121547 atm
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> beyond that i heard that sbalneav got the new ldm working with feedback messages to the user yesterday ...
<ogra> i havent merged that code yet
* RichEd is back in 2 mins
<ogra> i started the work on ltspfs hal integration on the weeken
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
<ogra> thats my first result, we have an ltspfs rootdevice now where all volumes that get mounted will register under
<ogra> well, thats been my week, mainly ltsp and CD building releated
<ogra> any questions abotu tech ?
<ogra> *about
<ogra> hmm, doesnt seem like
* pips1 looks around for vagrant
<RichEd> LaserJock asked me to raise the following queries:
<RichEd> "How do I install language support from the add-on CD"
<RichEd> he saw that in the forum ... is is a simple process ?
<ogra> he's travelling (or preparing to)
<ogra> and said his contract stuff isnt sorted yet :/
<stgraber> hello
<ogra> dunno whats holding it up
<ogra> synaptic atm
<RichEd> ogra: ^^ query ?
<RichEd> and also: <LaserJock> another was how to get all the gcompris languages installed
<ogra> the language selector should work as well if the CD is mounted, but dont quote me on it, i havent tested that
<ogra> the gcompris language stuff is a bit complicated
<ogra> we dont have enough langs to just add them to the langpack selection in the seeds
<ogra> so they need to be special cased either or i need to build funny scriptbased metapackage sor other weird stuff
<ogra> in former releases we just installed all the gcompris sound packages
<ogra> now that its on the addon CD we would need some new way to handle them
<RichEd> so how do we move forward on this ... log a request / bug in lp
<ogra> i'll talk to LaserJock about that
<RichEd> okie
<ogra> well, thats all from my side about tech, dunno if you want to add something RichEd
<ogra> RichEd was busy with tech stuff as well this week :)
<RichEd> just the comments from LaserJock ...
<RichEd> and some spec work for the Edulinux Moodle project
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> I was just chatting to pips1 about that ... we will let you know when the project server is up ... if people want to read or comment
<RichEd> just to fill you in: we are building an single CD bundle: edubuntu / moodle / database ... simple install
<RichEd> this is part of an EU project ... with schools / universities as partners ...
<RichEd> they request various features, and we are evaluating which moodle add-ons to bundle
<RichEd> the results will be public
<RichEd> and prepared as an .iso for all to download.
<RichEd> --- that's all from me
<RichEd> anyone else with technical ?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<RichEd> moving on to artwork then ...
<ogra> (sorry i'm a bit distracted jumping around between different running installs)
<RichEd> still no sign of cbx33 lately ... anyone seen him in #edubuntu in the past month ?
<ogra> as i said, he told me he wanted to draw back a bit from all the duties he took himself
<ogra> he felt it was to much
<RichEd> i'll need to check his level of commitment ... as we may need a replacement if he is too busy with other work
<ogra> but he didnt want to drp all
<RichEd> do we have anyone else who is keen to help with artwork ... not necessarily as creator, but also as organisational ?
<ogra> yeah, i need to check what up with TCM as well if he doenst want to maintain it anymore
<ogra> *what's
<RichEd> ... okay let me check with pete re his availability ...
<RichEd> and also see if he can put together a short list of responsibilities / items he used to care for
<ogra> well for edubuntu tech thats specifically only TCM
* RichEd checks the agenda ... is documentation next ?
<ogra> and artwork indeed, but i count more on kwwii with that to be honest
<ogra> i think doc was before art :)
<RichEd> ogra: kwii helps out with production but will not lead ... we need to give him requests / guidelines etc.
<ogra> RichEd, we can care ourself about coloring as long as his pics are easily chngeable
<ogra> *he* shall give *us* the specs for his pics ... i'm fine with changing colors or logos then
<RichEd> okay ... I will review the artwork process that willvdl has put together and see where we have gaps ... and chat to you and/or kwii
<ogra> (i can even script that if we make up a proper palette from the colors we have atm)
<RichEd> (just saying we need someone to keep an eye on the overall process / deadlines ... to free ogra up for tech focus)
<RichEd> mmm no sign of willvdl for web sites & documentation ...
* RichEd checks in canonical quickly
<ogra> he was busy with the admins i saw
<ogra> about the server update
<RichEd> nope not there either ...
<ogra> but i have no idea where we stand atm
<RichEd> highvoltage: ogra and I saw you chatting to willvdl re the website ubuntu uprade from dapper
<RichEd> any news ? status ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes
<highvoltage> RichEd: server was upgraded to dapper last week
<highvoltage> RichEd: edubuntu.org was upgraded to drupal 5.1 friday evening
<RichEd> upgraded to dapper ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: most of the canical2007 theme is ported to edubuntu
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes, it was still running breezy
<RichEd> oh ... any reason why it did not go to feisty ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: I didn't mention it before publicly, since there might have been security risks attached to it
<RichEd> okay ...
<highvoltage> RichEd: well, dapper is the LTS release
<highvoltage> RichEd: matthew is doing some colour work on the theme
* RichEd is impressed with all the changes ... w00t
<highvoltage> matthew uses photoshop, he says he can do it quicker than me
<highvoltage> I'm just going to put it up as I get it, faster incremental changes work better than the big bang stuff
* pips1 is happy to hear about progress
<highvoltage> we can even have it up today or tomorrow, if you'd be happy with a brown backround gradient
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, even SSL is working ;)
<pips1> \o/
<pips1> finally
<pips1> :-)
<highvoltage> pips1: it was also relient on the server upgrade
<pips1> what about the content?
<pips1> ic
<highvoltage> I really can't believe it was left on breezy that long :/
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> pips1: depends what kind of content you mean. we can have forums now. now that ssl works, we can have users register themselves, so that will work.
<highvoltage> pips1: in terms of updating existing content, I suppose that's willvdl's baby
<pips1> We had a meeting at UDS Sevilla about the websites of Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu... an idea that was discussed was that it would help the new site visitors if there was some kind of consistency across all sites... not so much in terms of "look", but more in terms of navigation
<RichEd> pips1: that is part of the move to the canonical theme ...
<highvoltage> we can be consistent with canonical and ubuntu
<highvoltage> Kubuntu's look is a whole other discussion
<RichEd> the idea is to keep the horizontal toobars at the top, so that, for example, if you are on edubuntu.org but click on support / marketplace, then you go straight to the area on ubuntu.com
* RichEd goes to get an example quickly ...
<highvoltage> the canonical theme is way superior to the ubuntu theme. I think metthew will eventually re-do ubuntu's theme
<highvoltage> it lacks some features, which the canonical one has
<pips1> Yes. RichEd, I remember your idea in particular, that even the page hiearchy could be the same, e.g. /getubuntu/download should be the same for Ubuntu.com, Kubuntu and Edubuntu.org...
<highvoltage> (such as support for a right sidebar)
<RichEd> pips1: the download will need some work ... there will need to be some decisions taken on the naming ...
<pips1> right.
<RichEd> they have embedded ubuntu in the name in some locations, and do we swop out ubuntu for edubuntu or make edubuntu a subset of ubuntu ...
<RichEd> small matters just to clear up.
<RichEd> here is the example I mentioned:
<RichEd> http://chi.ubuntu-us.org/
<pips1> Let me just throw in this idea again: why don't we copy the entire ubuntu.com content (i.e. the whole database) and use that as a "base" for the edubuntu relaunch... we can delete pages that aren't relevant to edubuntu, modify pages to make them specifically relevant to edubuntu, and add a few pages that we need in addtion. What does everybody think about this approach?
<RichEd> if you load it, you will see that there are a small set of chicago specific pages, but the main links back to ubuntu are direct and consistent
<RichEd> pips1: that is almost exactly what the example does
<RichEd> oops ... let me clarify ...
<highvoltage> pips1: I don't think we're going to do the big-bang-relaunch thing
<RichEd> i don't think we want to have duplicate pages on our site ... if the info is accurate on ubuntu.com
<RichEd> we should only host major deviations ...
<RichEd> minor deviations are best covered on the ubuntu site as a flavour change I think ?
<pips1> highvoltage: it doesn't have to be a "big bang" type of thing, I am just suggesting that we could re-use the content from ubuntu.com...
<pips1> RichEd: hmm.
<pips1> Well, the big question is really: how to we insure best maintenance with the least effort?
<pips1> *do
<highvoltage> pips1: yep, absolutely
<pips1> so we don't want *double* content
<highvoltage> pips1: you have editing right, don't you? If you want to re-create a page, feel free to do so
<pips1> nah, I'm just trying to figure out a way to align edubuntu and ubuntu.com sites (both in terms of look/template, but also in terms of navigation structure/content) with as little unnessasary work as possible
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> *unnecessary
* sbalneav goes to the principals office for a lateslip
<RichEd> pips1: i think you and I should have a meeting with will and highvoltage to get a plan together ... before will leaves next week
<pips1> so my idea was to copy the whole ubuntu.com site's database and simply tweak the content here and there... hmm. I realise this not ideal. We really want most content on the ubuntu site, and only some additional content that is relevant to edubuntu, i.e. mostly content about the educational applications and about our specific community (communication channels such as irc channel etc)
<sbalneav> Will going on holidays?
<highvoltage> pips1: I tend to think it's more efficient to link to certain pages than to copy the entire site over. we have help.ubuntu.com for documentation
<RichEd> pips1: there are a lot more resources working on the ubuntu.com site, like the marketing people, so their content will change more quickly .. and we may struggle to keep up with the mods
<pips1> sure, linking is preferable
<highvoltage> so I think it will get messy copying over the entire ubuntu site
<RichEd> sbalneav: will only had a short contract specifically around a project (NEPAD) and that expires end June
<highvoltage> pips1: what's the state of the community site? did I miss the update on that?
<pips1> in addition we should have some redirection happening also... for some crucial / very popular url paths that exist on the ubuntu.com site...
* highvoltage scrrolls up on high-latency-connection
<pips1> highvoltage: nope you didn't miss anything
<pips1> the beta site is still unchanged ever since UES :-((
<pips1> i've been too busy :-((
<highvoltage> there's an edubuntu-website team in launchpad. perhaps you should ping the group and ask if anyone wants to help out with the areas you're too busy with
<pips1> hmm.
<pips1> I don't know if that will help
<RichEd> well now is a good time to bring up LP and community applications ...
<RichEd> we are getting more requests by people asking to become edubuntu members
<RichEd> some spam, but quite a few are real ...
<RichEd> so: 1. how do we streamline the approval process (I get too busy to attend to all)
<pips1> I think it's too difficult to communicate the overall idea/vision... I think the most effective will be if I set aside a block of time and then just get it done.
<RichEd> and 2. perhaps we should have a wiki page outlining how the people could get involved, with the subgroups, and a short intro on what they do ?
<RichEd> (like the edubuntu website example)
<RichEd> ogra: any suggestions on how or who can do the approvals ?
* pips1 looks for the "teams" in launchpad
<pips1> arg, where the **** do I find the team search on LP?
<ogra> RichEd, EC approvals ?
<RichEd> people requesting to become an edubuntu member
<ogra> we should have anoother EC meeting for that and announce it loudly
<jsgotangco> yep
<RichEd> I do not get around to them all :( ... they can get lost in my inbox at times
<RichEd> pips1: my point exactly ... ^^ ... if you can't find all the edubuntu teams / education teams ... we should perhaps have a guide page ?
<highvoltage> pips1: I understand what you'd like to achive, but we also have to be realistic and get done what we can as soon as possible
<highvoltage> [6~[6~~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~some ideas are a bit big for right now.
<RichEd> pips [Home]  [[People] ]  drop down
<RichEd> pips1: ^
<ogra> i dont really care about all the other teams atm, but we should urgenty go over membership stuff and have the EC meeting for that
<ogra> its just a lot of paperwork (mailing all applicants etc)(
<pips1> finally found it: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu
<pips1> There are five applicants listed
<pips1> Has anyone ever heard of anyone on that list?
<RichEd> pips1: there are also some education teams
<ogra> pips1, no, but we need to tell them about the process and mail them a date for an EC meeting
<jsgotangco> hi
<pips1> ogra: ic, right
<RichEd> pips1: Halmeren (jonasgauguin) ... new user in #edubuntu ... spoken to him ... enthusiastic
<pips1> ah, this is the full team listing: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu/+members
<ogra> there are a *lot* of pending members
<ogra> *sigh*
<pips1> oh, there are 31 (!) applicants waiting
<RichEd> shall we table a slot for the next meeting ... and give 30 mins to work through all the issues ?
<RichEd> it will also be the 1st meeting for July which is a potential EC meeting no ?
<ogra> yep
<jsgotangco> just my thought: its perfectly fine to delegate approval of membership to specific teams if there is a reason to do so (language for instance)
<RichEd> so 1: manage the approvals ...
<ogra> jsgotangco, well, thats why we have the edubuntu team :)
<jsgotangco> yep
<RichEd> but 2: shall we also draft a welcome email with some ideas on how the new members could gt involved
<RichEd> like artwork / web site etc. with the names of people to chat to ?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> and outlining the membership rpocess
<highvoltage> sounds good
<pips1> oh, and then there is edubuntu-members too : https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members
<RichEd> would a wiki page be a good idea ... make an agenda for the meeting ... and also some guidelines
<RichEd> pips1: mail me the names of any edubuntu / education groups you find ...
<pips1> which lists another 23 applicants waiting
<RichEd> i'll create a wiki page, with descriptions,and we can see if there is any duplication / overlap
<RichEd> and get a tidy up going
<RichEd> any suggestions for a sensible wiki page name: EdubuntuCommunity ?
<pips1> ++
<RichEd> ahh ... that page exists, created by Willvdl
<pips1> sorry, folks, I got to get back to work. :-/
<RichEd> it is a good start, so I will expand on it ... and we can use it as the base for the discussion next week
<RichEd> ---
<RichEd> Any other pressing matters for today ?
<ogra> nope
* RichEd also has a lot to attend to ...
<RichEd> anyone else ?
* ogra has to test
<RichEd> Open to the floor for questions / toppics / issues ?
<RichEd> Going once ...
* RichEd looks around for any raised hands
<pips1> hehe
<RichEd> Going twice ...
<RichEd> Okay spread the news about an EC meeting next week when you see people in the channel ...
<RichEd> And gong .... closed for today and thanks all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Admiral_Chicago> hey hey hey, i'm here
<Admiral_Chicago> agenda anyoe?
<nixternal> #ubuntu-meeting-offtopic ;p
<Admiral_Chicago> haha.
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 13:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* j1mc prays for Admiral_Chicago's router.
<j1mc> hi all.
<j1mc> do we have any Xubunteros here?
* Admiral_Chicago raises hand
<mr_pouit> o/
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> hi mr_pouit and Admiral_Chicago
<j1mc> hi fijam
<fijam> hello everybody
<hyper_ch> hiho
<sacater> hi
<j1mc> hi hyper_ch and sacater
<sacater> i have been called forth
<j1mc> :)
<hyper_ch> what is juliux doing in here?
* sacater shrugs
<juliux> hyper_ch, ilden;)
<sacater> well
<sacater> ask the other question
<sacater> what is he NOT doing here
<sacater> in*
<hyper_ch> sacater: ^^
<hyper_ch> where is thesheep???
<sacater> he is in xubuntu-dev
<j1mc> we have an agenda up at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings , but I'm not married to it, as per usual.
* sacater pulls it up
<j1mc> it isn't even really much of an "agenda," unfortunately.
<hyper_ch> what's an agenda? ^^
<sacater> btw, has anyone considered meeting by VoIP
<j1mc> i would like to hear from mr_pouit on how things are going, and i'd like to hear from everyone else on their interests and how we might make xubuntu better for gutsy.
<hyper_ch> sacater: not a good thing ;) you couldn't understand a word with my accent
<j1mc> mr_pouit  -  did you have anything on your mind that you would like discussed here?
<sacater> hyper_ch: heh
<Admiral_Chicago> i added somethign to the agenda
<mr_pouit> j1mc: I uploaded xubuntu-restricted-extras yesterday
<hyper_ch> ^^
<mr_pouit> I am waiting for a possible xfce 4.4.2 release (they spoke of it on xfce4-dev)
<j1mc> mr_pouit: great!  did you go with the packages that we had discussed in the mailing list?
<mr_pouit> yes
<j1mc> thank you for doing that.  and, yes, i had heard about a possible xfce 4.4.2 release, too.
<sacater> when is xfce 4.4.2 due to be releaseed
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: thanks for adding that.  i had heard about that, too.
<j1mc> s/heard/thought
<Jester45> sorry to interrupt but is this for gusty or the next release
<sacater> gutsy
<sacater> well
<Jester45> ok
<sacater> next release is gutsy
<mr_pouit> sacater: nothing has been decided yet. It seems this is mostly to fix a very bad bug with gtk 2.11.
<Jester45> both?
<sacater> due october
<sacater> the next next release (2008) hasnt been thought about yet
<sacater> and of course hasnt been code-named either
<Jester45> sacater, gusty or the one after that, but i guess thats to far into the furture to be working on it
<sacater> the next release, due october, is gutsy
<j1mc> mr_pouit: thanks for your help with packaging items from Xfce.
<mr_pouit> np ;)
* sacater feels a traitor, joining this meeting from his fluxbox lappy :P
<j1mc> are there any new xfce apps that might be included with gutsy?  i'm thinking of the "places" panel plugin.
<j1mc> i'm not sure of it's status.
<mr_pouit> is it in gutsy?
* sacater raises his hand
<mr_pouit> iirc, gpocentek packaged it
<Admiral_Chicago> sacater: i'm on an ubuntu lappy
<j1mc> mr_pouit: ah, so it would be available via the panel plugins menu?
<sacater> with gutsy, can we do a different default xfce-menu style, instead of applications and stuff at the top
<j1mc> i know that somerville32 was interested in that.
<sacater> its all inverted to how most people use xfce
<mr_pouit> xfce4-places-plugin | 0.2.0-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
<j1mc> thank you...
<fijam> btw, got a question. How is that right-click desktop menu done in xubuntu? xfce doesn't have it by default
<fijam> sorry if  this is offtopic
<sacater> anyone know somewhere I can post a screenshot?
<sacater> fijam: easy
<Admiral_Chicago> imageshack.us
<sacater> go to xfce settings
<sacater> Admiral_Chicago: ty
<j1mc> sacater: yes, xubuntu does have a different menu layout than other Xfce-based distros, but that doesn't mean we're bad.
<sacater> and then do 'right click menu' or something
<j1mc> or that it's a wrong approach.
<sacater> j1mc: never implied that
<fijam> sacater:  yes, but it is customized. In default xfce 4.4 installation it is just the applications menu, while we have 'create directory', 'create from template' etc.
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: would you like to talk about the help you need with the release notes?
<Admiral_Chicago> sure
<Admiral_Chicago> well I have a few ideas.
<Admiral_Chicago> we can talk about the newest uploads related to using the internet
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: is there a wiki page up for the release notes yet, even if they're a draft?
<Admiral_Chicago> such as nspluginwrapper, and iceape
<Admiral_Chicago> i created the page, still need to add content
<j1mc> linky?
<Admiral_Chicago> sec
<Admiral_Chicago> should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe2/Xubuntu
<j1mc> what are nspluginwrapper and iceape...
<Admiral_Chicago> the other thing is we have gutsy commit list, so we can search through that and look for updates
<j1mc> if you're sure that they're new to Xubuntu for this release, please add them.  I think we should also mention the upload of Xubuntu-restricted-extras.
<Admiral_Chicago> nspluginwrapper lets you use flash in 64 bit firefox
<j1mc> ah, ok...
<j1mc> and nsplusinwrapper is available for install with tribe 2?
<Admiral_Chicago> iceape is the mozilla suite, firefox + thunderbird + sunbird iirc
<Admiral_Chicago> well i know its the mozilla suite
<Admiral_Chicago> but its a testing build
<j1mc> ok.  thanks.
<Admiral_Chicago> we also have firefox-trunk a package to test bleeding edgy firefox 3
<fijam> it may be unbranded, hence the 'ice'
<Admiral_Chicago> it is unbranded
<Admiral_Chicago> nspluginwrapper is uploaded and installable, the spec in progress is to launch and install it to config automagically when someone uploads something like flashplugin-nonfree
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: if you wouldn't mind just adding the new items that you want to cover, i'm sure we can get some people to help flesh out the content.
<j1mc> it would be good if we could be included in Martin Pitt's (or whoever sends out the note) release announement for tribe 2.
<Admiral_Chicago> yes
<j1mc> would anyone here be will to help flesh-out the release notes for tribe 2?
<j1mc> other than Admiral_Chicago ?  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: this would be a good place to get started on docs :)
<fijam> I suppose so
<fijam> sure, I'll help, just need clear instructions
<j1mc> fijam: thanks.  :)  one good example is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe1/Xubuntu
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: i'll be clear. what is your time zone?
<fijam> GMT +2
<Admiral_Chicago> you are east coast?
<fijam> j1mc: thanks for the link
<fijam> Admiral_Chicago: Europe, PL
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: he's 7 hours ahead of us.  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> ah okay. UTC + 2
<Admiral_Chicago> thanks
<fijam> this would allow for contstant work on the documentation :)
<j1mc> heh  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: i'll be working on it ~6 UTC, so like 8AM for you.
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure of your schedule
<Admiral_Chicago> you may have work / a real life unlike me
<Admiral_Chicago> anyone else willing to help on the notes
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: if you can get the commit list and forward it on to me, i can get a start on things, too.
<fijam> That's the middle of the night for me. Seriously though, I have the holidays right now, so I guess I could be strarting at about 10 (local time)
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: I
<Admiral_Chicago> err https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/
<j1mc> thank you.
<j1mc> we need to contact someone from the dev team and let them know we'll have these ready so that they can include us in the announcement.
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: way ahead of you. did it already
<j1mc> awesome.  :)
<j1mc> can we have something on xubuntu.org, too?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll add it as well after the notes are out like i did on the last one
<Admiral_Chicago> win 6
<Admiral_Chicago> err
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: you have access to xubuntu.org to add it?
<Admiral_Chicago> yea
<j1mc> w00t
<j1mc> anything else on this topic?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm looking for a way to streamline the process for the future
<j1mc> next then?
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: good idea...
<Admiral_Chicago> but for now, I think I can handle it. it snuck up on me this time
<j1mc> mr_pouit: is there anything you'd recommend for us here?
<j1mc> any way for us to make sure we know about the latest updates provided in each milestone release?
<j1mc> ... so that we can be sure to highlight them in the release notes?
<fijam> good question
<mr_pouit> gutsy-changes, as said previously
<fijam> and how do we pick the most relevant ones?
<Admiral_Chicago> mr_pouit: is there anything you wnt highlighted?
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: look for the ones with "Lionel Le Folgoc" next to them
<fijam> whatever it is - acknowledged
<mr_pouit> fijam: you can subscribe to the rss feed, that's better
<mr_pouit> so your mailbos won't get flooded
<mr_pouit> *box
<j1mc> this is good stuff to know.  :)
<fijam> not a bad idea
<mr_pouit> most of the 'main' changes will be post-tribe2 anyway
<Admiral_Chicago> added some changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe2/Xubuntu about packages to highlight
<Admiral_Chicago> wine 0.9.38 maybe...
<Admiral_Chicago> gnumeric
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: thanks.  I think that this topic is something that could get added to our "ways to contribute to Xubuntu" list.
<Admiral_Chicago> definetl
<j1mc> noted.
<j1mc> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm looking to make this a team effort, not a "Let Freddy hack on it all the time"
<j1mc> ok...
<j1mc> sacater: Jester45 you all still here?  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> latest panel too..plans to include 4.4.2
<Admiral_Chicago> not as a commit, but works in progess
<j1mc> one of the things that came up at the last meeting was ways for people to contribute to Xubuntu in whatever way they can.
<j1mc> i'm curious to know how others might want to contribute to Xubuntu... what interests them.
<j1mc> Jester45: I know I see you providing great support in #xubuntu all the time.
<j1mc> ... ok, maybe they stepped away.
<Admiral_Chicago> xubuntu art has been uploaded, what does that mean mr_pouit?
<mr_pouit> xubuntu art?
<mr_pouit> iirc, jmak hasn't finished yet
<Admiral_Chicago> you can ignore me then...
<Admiral_Chicago> I'm thinking that we can do a "look forward to section"
<j1mc> mr_pouit: it looks like you uploaded a change in the xubuntu-artwork package  that fixed a bug: Fixed xubuntu-artwork-usplash.prerm to update-initramfs -u on package
<j1mc>      remove.	(LP: #83410)
<mr_pouit> j1mc: ah yes
<mr_pouit> Admiral_Chicago: sorry, you were right :P
<j1mc> well, seeing as we have myself, Admiral_Chicago and fijam here... shall we talk a bit about documentation?
<Admiral_Chicago> hehe, i think we can stop talking about the release noted
<Admiral_Chicago> lets
<j1mc> well, we're slowly making progress, uploading our first real patch yesterday, but we should probably have a timeframe mapped out to make sure we don't get too rushed at the end.
<j1mc> and maybe we can assign each other specific sections to focus on...
<Admiral_Chicago> agreed. I return to school August 15th, about a month before string freeze
<j1mc> welcome back, hyper_ch
<j1mc> ok.  i'll see if i can draft something up.
<hyper_ch> j1mc: thx, just rebooting the router
<j1mc> hyper_ch: :)
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: i'll take multimedia
<j1mc> ok  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i've been working on it anyways
<hyper_ch> are there now plans to integrate a gui search for files?
<j1mc> hyper_ch: good question . . .   can we save that to be our next topic?
<fijam> exactly, there was Tracker once suggested
<hyper_ch> j1mc: sure :)
<j1mc> cool.
<fijam> well, if I might say something about the documentation
<j1mc> i'll set up a basic list of topics to be included, and will let each of you know when it's ready.  from there, we can just assign our names to topics.
<j1mc> fijam: go ahead.
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: i'd suggest making a wiki page wth all the topic
<Admiral_Chicago> you beat me to it
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: also, milestones for when to get them donw
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: sounds good.
<Admiral_Chicago> imho i think the next section should be done in a week.
<j1mc> fijam: what were you going to say?
<fijam> yes...
<fijam> I think I'll just thoroughly study the patches in the coming days before I start commiting my own to the mailing list
<fijam> so I get the confidence on where the changes are heading to
<j1mc> fijam: that's cool.  :)  if you all would like... i think we're all new to documentation... maybe we could share our patches with each other before sending them out to the list, as long as it doesn't slow things down too much.
<fijam> I must say that I share the doubts of Lucius, that editing ubuntu documentation may create some obstacles in compariston to 'starting from the scratch' approach
<Jester45> im here now
* j1mc has been bad, sitting on Admiral_Chicago's multimedia page for a while.
<Jester45> let me read what i missed
<fijam> but I understand that both approaches have its advantages and disadvantages
<fijam> and I will gladly follow the chosen path
* j1mc nods
<Admiral_Chicago> i agree but we read the ubuntu docs were carefully and there is a lot of similarities
<Admiral_Chicago> however i was unhappy with the way some things were described and what not
* j1mc meant to nod at the "i understand both approaches . . . " statement.
<j1mc> i've found that (iirc) pressing Alt-F2 on Xubuntu brings up the XFCE documentation.  :)
<j1mc> it may be a bit outdated (for xfce 4.2, i think) but it may help us.
<Jester45> are you sure thats not alt+F1
<fijam> allright, I see rational and careful modification of the existing ubuntu documetnation as a viable solution
<j1mc> I think it's alt-f2.  i don't have a xubuntu box with me here now, though.
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: rewritting from scratch would also require us to learn much more docbook than we should responsibly consider
<Jester45> j1mc, well con feisty Alt+F2 is the run dialog F1 is the docs
<j1mc> yeah... :)  it's much easier to learn as we go by modifying the ubuntu docs.  :)
<j1mc> Jester45: you're probably right.  i'll have to check it out when I get home.
<Jester45> j1mc, thanks its nice to know someone noticed me helping out
<Admiral_Chicago> our goal is to have good solid docs done that are TBH
<j1mc> as a matter of fact, i know you're right.  :)
<j1mc> Jester45: you provide good support.
<j1mc> I'll let you both know when I have the documentation "schedule" up.
<j1mc> we also need to check with somerville32 and maxamillion about our revised spec for the Xubuntu Documentation Browser.
<fijam_> I think I lost the connection
<fijam_> what was the last thing I said?
<j1mc> fijam_: [15:59]  <fijam> allright, I see rational and careful modification of the existing ubuntu documetnation as a viable solution
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: i'm a bit concerned if that will go through
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: me, too.
<j1mc> i'm not counting on it.
<Admiral_Chicago> we haven't had much feedback about that.
<fijam_> the documentation browser?
<j1mc> fijam_:  yes
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: cubs win. 6-4: sweep rockies.
<Admiral_Chicago> sorry about the OT
<fijam_> I am no coder. sorry.
<j1mc> somerville32 leaves for the summer in the next few days.  he won't be back until august.
<j1mc> we need to get a status update from him on this quickly.
<j1mc> or get some input from him on this quickly.
<Admiral_Chicago> ye
<j1mc> i'll send him a note.
<Admiral_Chicago> cool
<Admiral_Chicago> speaking of which...
<j1mc> hi maxamillion
<maxamillion> hi
<maxamillion> sorry
<j1mc> np
<maxamillion> i was in a meeting with my boss (i'm at work)
<Jester45> <j1mc> we also need to check with somerville32 and maxamillion about our revised spec for the Xubuntu Documentation Browser.
<fijam_> Hello
<maxamillion> Jester45: thanks
<fijam_> j1mc: you suggested that we could share the patches, before commiting them to the mailing list. How? On the channel?
<Jester45> np, helping out
<maxamillion> j1mc: i haven't had a chance to look over the revised spec
<j1mc> fijam_: we could email them to each other.
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: google docs works.
<Admiral_Chicago> as well
<fijam_> great idea, I'd love that
<j1mc> maxamillion: np.  do you think you could talk it over with somerville32 in the next day or so?
<j1mc> he leaves for the summer in the very near future.
<maxamillion> j1mc: as soon as i catch him online i can ... i might just have to text message him soon and try to see if he would have free time to look it over
<j1mc> also, in regards to somerville32, he offered to host the test xubuntu.org site on his home server, but i don't know if that is set up.
* hyper_ch got two servers
<maxamillion> j1mc: another thing is that i am about to start up a summer session concurrent systems programming in C course in a week and won't have much time
<j1mc> maxamillion: ah, ok...
<j1mc> perhaps we need to defer the X-D-B. schedules getting in the way.
<maxamillion> j1mc: but at the same time, from the sounds of it ... the app would only take a weekend of hacking to get finished and from there we just need to get it in the repos and promoted to main
<j1mc> yeah...
<j1mc> please see if you can talk to cody about it.
<maxamillion> j1mc: will do
<maxamillion> j1mc: i imagine that between us we would be able to pull it off
<maxamillion> j1mc: well ... the coding atleast
<j1mc> please send him an email... i'm not sure when he'll be on IRC.
<j1mc> guys, i'm sorry, but i need to go... :(  i have work stuff to do.
<j1mc> please continue... :)
<j1mc> maybe see how Jester45 can help us out with his awesome skills.  :)
<Admiral_Chicago> I
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: Ill continue the discussions
<fijam_> I have a suggestion, since the xubuntu documentation will be in general ubuntu documentation + xfce specific features + a few selected apps, maybe we could see if an cooperation with xfce team on their documentation could be a good idea
<fijam_> s/an/a
<fijam_> this would enable us to push the documentation forward, and have some influence on timing
<fijam_> please comment
<Admiral_Chicago> the issue is getting in contact with people and making sure its being worked on
<servaas-xubuntu-> fijam maybe there are documenters of other distros also interested ?
<fijam> coordinating this is of course a challenge, but I think that the advantages would be substancial
<Admiral_Chicago> do you mean an upstream documentation browser?
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't know how upstream deals with their doc displays
<fijam> I mean we help xfce people write xfce 4.4 documentation (which is not completed yet) and at the same time we help ourselves
<fijam> and we are not forced to wait till they finish it, so we could incorporate it in xubuntu documentation
<Admiral_Chicago> ah yes, jim was talking about getting better work with upstream, their docs need love too
<fijam> sorry if I am unclear on this, it's getting late
<fijam> right, I'll drop Jim an email to get to know how he sees it, ok?
<Admiral_Chicago> cool
<Admiral_Chicago> I can't think of anythign else, anyone else with idead?
<fijam> it would be cool. if you could set the google doc for us, if we all agree to use it
<fijam> s/./,
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: google docs for what
<fijam> for documentation patches exchange
<Admiral_Chicago> ah yes, I'll set that up
<Admiral_Chicago> fijam: are you on launchpad?
<fijam> yes
<fijam> https://launchpad.net/~fijam7
<Admiral_Chicago> thanks
<fijam> got to go in a few minutes
<Admiral_Chicago> your email on there?
<fijam> in opengpg, but it's fijam7@gmail.com
<Admiral_Chicago> okay thank you
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll set it up and mail it
<fijam> s/gpg/pgp
<fijam> no problem
<fijam> allright
<Admiral_Chicago> if that's all, I think we can conclude the meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> anything else?
<Admiral_Chicago> no objections?
<fijam> I just realized that I have to deal with some red-tape tomorrow morning, expect news from me about 3PM utc
<fijam> very well, thank you for the meeting then
<Admiral_Chicago> good meeting everyone
<fijam> see you soon
<Jester45> is the meeting over?
<Admiral_Chicago> i think so
<hyper_ch> you need a server for the xubuntu test page?
<Jester45> i might have one
<hyper_ch> well, I have two servers.... considering getting a third one to just host OSS
<Jester45> oss opensource software
<Jester45> ?
<hyper_ch> Jester45:
<hyper_ch> Jester45: yes
<hyper_ch> Jester45: just mirroring OSS
<Jester45> its vidd's server but its not doing anything
<hyper_ch> Jester45: 150Gb....
<Jester45> o
<hyper_ch> costs me only  20.- per month
<Jester45> vidd.us and jester45.homelinux.net are bot hosting on it
<Jester45> both*
<hyper_ch> ^^
<Jester45> how many USD ? about
<hyper_ch> Jester45: dunno
<hyper_ch> Jester45: how about you find out :)
<Jester45> well... i got unlimited everything for ever and it only costed me a few days of web design
<hyper_ch> the only problem with those servers are the ram is low (256mb) but just for hosting OSS stuff you don't need more ram.... and it's got a 100mbit connection
<Jester45> naw but you can if you want :)
<hyper_ch> Jester45: I didn't ask how much it is in $
<Jester45> vidd's server is co-located at an ISP
<Jester45> yea..
<hyper_ch> Jester45: you're good at webdesign?
<Jester45> a little
<Jester45> i will get better im only 16 now... just wait till i get more money for a good line + server
<hyper_ch> wanna design something for me? ^^
<coreymon77> Jester45: there are plenty of currency converters on the internet, go find one on google
<hyper_ch> Jester45: I'm not creative... I can do php but the graphic stuff is out of my capabilities
<Jester45> depends on what you want
<Jester45> coreymon77, im just lazy
<Jester45> and firefox is taking to much ram right now :) i dont need another tab
<hyper_ch> Jester45: ever themed Wordpress?
<Jester45> working on that right now
<Jester45> and phpBB2
<stgraber> hyper_ch: 20 and 256MB, that looks like kimsufi.net am I right ? :)
<Jester45> i been buggin vidd to set up dual network cards so that he could get 200mbit line on the box
<hyper_ch> stgraber: it does
<hyper_ch> stgraber: got one as personal backup and mp3 streaming server... works just fine
<Jester45> http://vidd.us/wordpress/
<stgraber> hyper_ch: be careful, OVH doesn't allow mirroring of software/iso nor iptv/radio if taking much bandwidth ...
<hyper_ch> stgraber: they don't? oh :( that's a pitty.... well, I haven't had an issue with my streaming in the office yet
<stgraber> (my main problem with moving 5 other servers to them (bigger than kimsufi's ones))
<stgraber> hyper_ch: http://www.ovh.de/kundenbereich/agb/OVH_Anlage_DRS.pdf
<hyper_ch> stgraber: oh well, I just thought for that price I could donate a server for OSS
<stgraber> yes, it's too bad, I'd have moved some high-traffic game servers / radio / web hosting servers to them otherwise
<stgraber> they also don't allow IRC (bouncers, bot, ...) which can also be a real problem
<Jester45> hyper_ch, well you could go to vidd, he trying to start a hosting site if you didnt notice
<Jester45> he just hasnt had the time to fill in the site
<hyper_ch> Jester45: start a hosting site?
<Jester45> and i think he kinda doesnt want to
<Jester45> ya right now he is getting mail working
<hyper_ch> stgraber: too bad... well, I'm the only one listening to my streaming server and I use it for backusp... have been doing so for quite a while so I guess I'm within their limits
<hyper_ch> Jester45: mail is simple to get it working but what does he try to do?
<stgraber> yes, I think so
<hyper_ch> Jester45: you said "start a site"?
<Jester45> we are making if where you just click an extra option and you get billed and its auto installed
<Jester45> start a company
<hyper_ch> Jester45: ah ^^
<Jester45> im thinking the base package will be ftp+space+bandwidith
<hyper_ch> Jester45: well, I got another server elsewhere
<hyper_ch> :)
<Jester45> then you can add apache support, subdomain, wordpress, phpbb, and other goodies
<hyper_ch> yuck... phpbb
<hyper_ch> go away devil!!!!
<Jester45> andhe said once he gets a few subscribers his gonna set up a rackmount server
<Jester45> the first thing i thought was yea game server :)
<hyper_ch> lol
<hyper_ch> anyway, I'm off to bed... gnihgt :)
<stgraber> hyper_ch: night
<Jester45> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-28
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<jgamio> hi does the xubuntu meeting finshed ?
<highvoltage> @schedule EDT
<evand> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 28 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 07:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 29 Jun 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 21:00: MOTU Team | 04 Jul 05:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team
<Hobbsee> hi evand
<Hobbsee> 2 hours.  hmmm.
<Mithrandir> *sigh*; I was sure it was later today.
<evand> good whateveritisdownthere Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: awww
<Hobbsee> evand: evening.  it's 11pm
<evand> ah, good evening then
* Hobbsee also seems to live on european time, so...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<mdz> good day, all
<fabbione> hello
<seb128> hey mdz
<evand> hi
<pitti> pong
<BenC> mdz: hey
* bryce waves
<bdmurray> hullo
<ogra> whoops ...
* ogra nearly missed it
<kylem> er, early
<calc> hello
<BenC> kylem, rtg_: ping
* BenC sees kyle
<kylem> slow.
<rtg_> I'm here.
<heno> hello
<BenC> cool, kernel team accounted for
<rtg_> BenC: Is your clock fast?
<BenC> I've got that amd64 fast clock bug in my brain today
<dholbach> hiya
<shawarma> o/ Hi all
<cjwatson> hi all
<dendrobates> hey y'all :-D
<mdz> mathiaz,kees: ping
<mathiaz> mathiaz: pong
* mvo waves
<mdz> mathiaz: oh, hi
<cjwatson> doko is excused due to a rehearsal
<cjwatson> everyone else on my team here
<mathiaz> hi all
<kylem> i'm actually here, despite the agenda.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: in France?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes
<cjwatson> yes, the calendar is mistaken about kyle's travel plans
<mathiaz> dendrobates: seems that they have internet connection in this country
* cjwatson adjusts the apologia
* agoliveira waves all
<kylem> cjwatson, "travel" heh, it's like 15 minutes that-way.
<kylem> ;-)
* Mithrandir pongs
<mdz> anyone seen Keybuk recently?
* asac waves
<stgraber> hello
<pitti> mdz: summoning powers :)
<kylem> Keybuk, got your mail sorted?
<kwwii> hi
<mdz> ok, let's get started
* Mithrandir has the problem of having his mail all too sorted.. it makes IMAP slow.
<mdz> it's good to see everyone!  feels like a long time
<Keybuk> kylem: nope, nowhere near
<kylem> Keybuk, bummer.
<mdz> I was traveling and then on holiday, glad to be back though
<mdz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070628
<mdz> it looks like no agenda items were submitted in summary activity this week
<kylem> i think shawarma has one. heh.
<shawarma> Yeah.
<mdz> I guess that means no one has any problems at all! ;-)
<Riddell> hi
* kylem runs away as fast as he can
<shawarma> We're getting more and more requests for updated Dapper install CD's since a lot of new, fancy SCSI and RAID controllers aren't support.
<mdz> I echo pitti's hearty appreciation for the efforts which went into tribe 2
<cjwatson> shawarma: coincidentally ... ;-)
* mvo hugs pitti
* asac hugs pitti
* pitti hugs the team
* seb128 hugs pitti
* dholbach hugs pitti
* keescook hugs pitti
* kylem high fives pitti
<pitti> wow
* pitti bounces
* shawarma hugs pitti, too.
<mdz> shawarma: Ubuntu 6.06.2 is under discussion right now
<keescook> hug-powered!
<mdz> shawarma: tentative target is August
<shawarma> mdz: Oh, really? Where do I join the fun?
<cjwatson> probably late Aug
<Hobbsee> yay pitti!
<agoliveira> I've helped a bit and could follow closelly the huge effort as well! Well done!
* ogra hugs pitti as well
* Hobbsee hugs pitti 
* evand hugs pitti
* shawarma hugs mvo for sorting out that scary apt bug. Eek.
* Keybuk hugs everyone
<cjwatson> the main thing to do for 6.06.2 is to identify what should go into it
<fabbione> i did propose to have a session at UDS to discuss exactly this problem
<cjwatson> we've been circulating a couple of ideas but have only *just* got started
<BenC> maybe we should create a linux-backports-modules-2.6.15 for dapper
<fabbione> but the session was never scheduled
<mdz> what we likely want is a list of targeted bugs
<shawarma> Where has this discussio been going on? (i.e. which mailing list have I failed to subscribe to?)
<mdz> shawarma: no, a very preliminary discussion just began with a few people via private mail
<BenC> Could the server team come up with a list of network and storage drivers with bug numbers?
<asac> will 6.06.2 be a release update ... or a new branch that will coexist?
<cjwatson> asac: the former
<mdz> to collect input on how the process will work
<kylem> BenC, the problem primarily is how to re-qualify the release.
<kylem> backporting subsystems is *guaranteed* to break working configs.
<cjwatson> we definitely need to bear in mind support for people upgrading dapper
<BenC> I don't want to backport subsystems for sure :)
<cjwatson> adding hardware support in stable releases has been a thorny topic in the past, to say the very least
<BenC> network controllers are pretty easy, and scsi is not bad...sata will likely be a no-go though
<pitti> we already had that discussion on the ML, and the basic outcome was that it was too crazy/too much work/not doable at all, right?
<mdz> kylem: we'll consider the needs on a case-by-case basis, and determine what needs to be done
<mdz> kylem: things which are too risky for the benefit they provide will have to be put aside
<cjwatson> I don't think we can promise to support everyone's new+shiny hardware in 6.062
<mdz> as always for SRUs
<amitk> Greg K-H wrote abot this very thing the other day: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/enterprise_kernel_future.html
<BenC> yeah, I read that
<kylem> amitk, yeah, greg, arjan and i talked a bit about this at the LF summit
<BenC> pretty much describes the problems we have, like any distro
<agoliveira> SRUs?
<pitti> BenC: linux-backports-modules-2.6.15 sounds much better wrt. breaking existing setups; that will limit the type of drivers which can be backported at all, right?
<dholbach> agoliveira: stable release updates
<BenC> not much help in that document though :)
<kylem> this was a big session with vendors at LF.
<agoliveira> Thanks
<mdz> BenC: yeah, only his solution fails to mention the 'con' of 'new upstream kernels are full of regressions'
<shawarma> cjwatson: I'm just afraid we'll lose ground due to lacking hardware support in our LTS's.
<shawarma> The alternative is more frequent LTS's, but that brings in entirely different issues.
<pitti> cjwatson: and TBH we should never even publicly announce this as a goal
<kylem> mdz, did you catch that session?
<mdz> kylem: no, I'm afraid not
<kylem> mdz, yeah, i think it was friday afternoon.
<kylem> basically it was vendor versus distro bitchfest 2007
<BenC> pitti: yeah, limits it to just drivers, no subsystems, unless we get frisky too drop new subsystem replacements in updates/, which is probably bad :)
<agoliveira> kylem: very well put :-D
<kylem> greg summarizes it pretty well in that blog entry though.
<mdz> so, to come back to 6.06.2
<mdz> the answer is, stay tuned, we'll begin the process soon
<pitti> BenC: agreed; so we can backport drivers which don't depend so heavily on big and/or changing kernel ABIs; if that covers wifis and graphics drivers (nvidia/fglrx), that's already something
<mdz> I want to take advantage of this cycle to formalize the process a bit more and get it documented
<kylem> wifi is one of the biggest problems.
<BenC> mdz: for kernel side, I propose a linux-backports-modules-2.6.15, with appropriate meta packages...anything beyond that is too much work/testing for an Aug release
<mdz> BenC: that unfortunately doesn't solve the problem, which is that people can't install
<BenC> mdz: make that package default on the CD?
<mdz> s/the/an important/
<fabbione> we will need appropriate changes to the installer to
<cjwatson> BenC: then for 6.06.3 we'd need a linux-backports-backports-modules-2.6.15
<BenC> just need to seed it and include it
<cjwatson> for the stuff that breaks people using the previous set of backports
<mdz> BenC: we're not going to spec out a technical solution here; it is a big hairy mess
<BenC> cjwatson: why? Just update the same package?
<cjwatson> for the same reason we don't install l-b-m by default in the first place
<shawarma> cjwatson: which was.. ?
<shawarma> cjwatson: fear of breaking stuff that already works?
<cjwatson> we plan to put stuff in it that may well break people's working setups
<shawarma> Right.
<shawarma> hrm..
<cjwatson> the entire reason to put something in l-b-m is that it shouldn't go in a regular kernel update
<BenC> if we fear it that much, then we are saying we can't do it at all for .02?
<mdz> please, guys
<pitti> shawarma: a module could then be autoloaded in favor of another one which was used before
<mdz> this is not the time to argue technical details
<BenC> ok
* kylem hands mdz a gavel.
<mdz> I will circulate a plan and ask for comments on it
<shawarma> pitti: Sure.
<mdz> and we'll take it from there
<shawarma> \o/
<cjwatson> done
<mdz> are Canonical folks all sorted for the sprint?
<cjwatson> oh, I still need to book the train travel
<agoliveira> Yep
<fabbione> yeo
<cjwatson> (all 15 of it)
<dendrobates> mdz: yep
<Riddell> do we have a page to put agenda items?
<shawarma> Yup.
<keescook> mdz: yup
<calc> yes
<Riddell> (I can't think of any just now but if it do)
* mvo raises his hand
<iwj> cjwatson: It's no cheaper to book if I'm not mistaken.
<asac> yes
<kylem> cjwatson, get keybuk to fly you in? :)
<shawarma> Riddell: It's on the sprint page on the wiki.
<Keybuk> kylem: unlikely with the current UK weather :-/
<Keybuk> I can't fly above clouds
<cjwatson> iwj: it would get clan off my back ;-)
* agoliveira is wondering is Alex Sacks snores...
<asac> agoliveira: dito :)
<pitti> looking forward to it
<fabbione> what's the name of the hotel btw?
<mdz> ok, good
<iwj> pitti: The snoring ?
<agoliveira> asac: You're screwed :-D
<Keybuk> fabbione: Rochester Grand iirc
* kylem can say adilson doesn't snore.
<Keybuk> it's a nice little place
<BenC> mdz: how should I coordinate setting aside time for canonica-qa/kernel-team and such?
<pitti> iwj: absolutely :) seb128 doesn't snore fortunately
<fabbione> Keybuk: ok, there are directions but no name :)
<Keybuk> Rochester Grange, sorry
<mdz> heno: do you want to raise any questions here regarding workflow for bugs, especially escalations?
<shawarma> Riddell: Beneath the list of people.
<mdz> BenC: GMTA
<Keybuk> http://www.grangehotels.com/grange_rochester_hotel/index.htm
<fabbione> Keybuk: thanks
<Riddell> shawarma: oh yes
<heno> mdz: no I think I'll do that in individual conversations, thanks
<Keybuk> (at least, I'm assuming that's where we are -- claire hasn't actually confirmed yet)
<mdz> ok
* iwj edits the wiki.
<pitti> thanks for that, I'll need it for directions from Gatwick
<iwj> Oh, no, cjwatson got there first.
<Keybuk> pitti: I've already added directions from all major airports to the wiki ;)
<fabbione> Keybuk: directions looks like KK, but there are a bunch of hotels there..
<pitti> Keybuk: ah, sweet
<amitk> mdz: has Intel confirmed that they will be sending people?
<mdz> amitk: yes
<amitk> benc: in that case we need to schedule some time with them as well?
<agoliveira> amit:At least for 2 or 3 days there'll be some of them with us.
<mdz> amitk: add it to the wiki page just to keep it on the radar
<BenC> amitk: yep
<shawarma> I have an e-mail where it says PArk Plaza Riverside?
<mdz> there will be plenty of UME work to be done in any caes
<mdz> case
<mdz> Keybuk: no, it's a different hotel
<mdz> clan will update the wiki page
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I just asked and found that out :p
* agoliveira feels a a chilly wind now...
<Keybuk> the map on the wiki says the rochester, which is what confused me
<mdz> that's the general "office and stuff nearby" map
<dendrobates> shawarma: me too, is the server team in a different hotel?
* keescook imagines himself wandering London, looking for his hotel
<mdz> shawarma: same
<agoliveira> BTW, is this hotel far from the office? Can we go by foot?
<kylem> re: sprint; is the heathrow express worth the 15GBP?
<mdz> dendrobates: everyone is in the park plaza riverside as far as I'm aware
<shawarma> dendrobates: That would be rather silly. :)
<Keybuk> kylem: no, takes you to the wrong train station
<fabbione> kylem: no, subway > *
<Keybuk> kylem: paddington is an arse to get anywhere from
<cjwatson> I'm just checking into the details but I doubt the Stansted Express is worth it either
<agoliveira> fabbione: tube ;)
<kylem> Keybuk, yeah but i want to take a picture of the bear statue :P
* kylem remembers being read paddington bear stories as a child
<iwj> cjwatson: Err, the Stansted Express and the Gatwick Express are much more sensible.  They're basically mostly normal trains.
<calc> url/address for PPR?
<Keybuk> Gatwick Express is utterly non-sensible
<Keybuk> it's twice as much as the ordinary train, and almost identical times to the same station
<Keybuk> and isn't any nicer
<mdz> inquiries regarding the sprint should be directed first to the wiki, and then to clan (with a wiki update for any new information obtained via the latter)
<cjwatson> iwj: hmm, ok. seems to take you into Liverpool Street though which probably isn't ideal
<mdz> it looks a little out of date, but that should be fixed soon
<iwj> cjwatson: Oh, yes.
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+specs shows a lot of unknown statuses
<mdz> please remember to update LP with your progress, so as not to give the impression of falling behind
<Mithrandir> I'll nag the Intel guys to do so for their specs too
<Mithrandir> (for mobile)
<mdz> thanks
<pitti> mdz: what status to give to an informational spec like bzr-best-practices? (this is cuurently 'unknown')
<agoliveira> They have being working on them latelly.
<agoliveira> I mean, the Intel guys.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: oh, sure, they just need to update the status of the spec.
<mdz> pitti: for an informational spec, it should be the progress of the writeup.  if it's published and appropriately linked, it's implemented
<pitti> mdz: alright, thanks
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'm not unhappy with their progress, just with not knowing the status.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Righto
<mdz> are there any questions or issues with spec progress or reporting?
<mdz> feature freeze is 16 August
<Mithrandir> Mobile are behind on writeups, but I'm prodding people to have them ready, hopefully this week.
<Keybuk> (suggests a 1 minute panic'd silence :p)
<mdz> right, mobile got a late start for reasons beyond our control, and is playing catch-up
<mdz> server projects were also off to a late start, but the team is working steadily as well (thanks!)
<shawarma> \o/
<shawarma> Go us!
<shawarma> :)
<iwj> I can't seem to find this mail about the sprint hotel address.
* dholbach hugs shawarma, dendrobates, mathiaz and keescook :)
<shawarma> iwj: I got it early because I've got sprint next week, too.
<Keybuk> iwj: there isn't a mail yet
<mdz> iwj: clan is on it, don't worry
<agoliveira> shawarma: That's self confidence!
<shawarma> iwj: Server sprint, that is.
<agoliveira> ;)
<iwj> Oh, OK, that's fine then.  Just so long as it hadn't got lost ...
* Keybuk hands iwj his crystal ball ... there it is
<mdz> ok, is there any other business for the meeting?
<mdz> is there anything deeply buried in my inbox I should be aware of?
<mdz> (I'm almost caught up, actually)
<ogra> does anyone know whats up with -changes ?
<mdz> not quite, but the appropriate LP folks have been informed and are working on it
<fabbione> it works?
<ogra> it seems to flip/flop between Changed By ad MAintaianer adresses at the moment
<mdz> ogra: known issue
<Riddell> mdz: your UDS e-mail wasn't clear to me, are we ment to forward names of invitees?
<fabbione> ogra: if you did an upload with Closes LP: #1234, check with with cprov. some of them have gone lost
<mdz> Riddell: yes
<pitti> ogra: I reported it to the soyuz guys already
<Riddell> mdz: ok
<pitti> fabbione: I mailed u-d-a@ about it actually
<ogra> well, i only noticed the Maintainer being used ... but just saw the flip/flop today, so i thought i should mention it :)
<fabbione> pitti: ok
<pitti> ogra: hm, did it actually change *back* to Maintainer?
<fabbione> pitti: mail is not around yet...
<mdz> pitti: yes, it's behaving strangely.  but known.
<ogra> well i see a bunch that uses Maintainer ...
<mdz> sounds like we can safely wrap up the meeting, then
<ogra> and then there are dokos uploads :)
<pitti> fabbione: it was days ago already
<fabbione> pitti: i am talking to the uploads it lost today?
<pitti> fabbione: that would be news to me
<fabbione> <cprov> fabbione: yes, something went wrong in soyuz when closing the respective bug
<pitti> fabbione: doesn't it close bugs for packages that were held in the unapproved queue until thawing?
<fabbione> this was about one hour ago
<pitti> erk
<fabbione> it's fixed
<pitti> fabbione: ok, good to know
<fabbione> but it might have lost not just my upload
<pitti> fabbione: I only applied the fix in-place in soyuz, it might have been clobbered by  the new rollout
<dholbach> thanks everybody :)
<fabbione> pitti:  i don't know the details.. -ENOACCESS to the toys
<mdz> right. back to your regularly scheduled soyuz chatter. :-)
<mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone
<fabbione> bye bye
<pitti> thanks everyone
<evand> thanks
<agoliveira> Bye all
<ogra> thanks
<keescook> bye
<asac> thanks all
<kwwii> bye all
<pitti> that was easy today :)
<mvo> bye!
<mathiaz> bye all
<BenC> bye everyone....good job on tribe-2
<dendrobates> bye
<amitk> bye
<bryce> cya!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ubuntu_jim is away: Later gents, mother nature calls!
* ubuntu_jim is back (gone 01:21:31)
<AndyP> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 29 Jun 12:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-29
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 29 Jun 21:00: MOTU Team | 04 Jul 05:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu
<cynics> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 29 Jun 19:00: MOTU Team | 04 Jul 03:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 04:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 23:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu
<bashelier> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 29 Jun 13:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<bashelier> hey Lutin
<Zic> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 29 2007, 10:57:27 - Current meeting: MOTU Team
<Lutin> heya bashelier
<Zic> o/ Lutin :)
<Lutin> hi Zic
<dholbach> hiya
<geser> Hi
<ajmitch> hello
<dholbach> who else from the MOTU crew do we have here?
* ajmitch is sort of here, if I count
* persia is present
<Adri2000> hi
<ScottK> ScottK here
* TheMuso is here.
<StevenK> Hrm. Wonder if ScottK is here this time.
<dholbach> to get some rotation going on, who would like to run today's meeting?
<dholbach> agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<lionel> hi
<dholbach> to get some rotation going on, who would like to write up the minutes of today's meeting?
* persia volunteers to chair, if nobody else wants it
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.  You can quit wondering.
* TheMuso would do the minutes, but he is going away for a week tomorrow.
* persia retracts volunteering after reviewing the agenda
<StevenK> ScottK: :-P
<TheMuso> SO I can't be sure of getting them out before I go
<dholbach> ok, I'll run the meeting - if somebody could just take a very few notes, that'd be nice
<dholbach> persia's item is the first on the agenda: Should setting a date for REVU days be a Fixed topic?
<dholbach> I personally think that's a great idea
<persia> In the last couple MOTU meetings, there have been discussions of REVU days.  Should this be a standard part of the Fixed Topics?  That wold save anyone remembering each time.
* ScottK too.  Lets do it.  Next item...  ;-)
<dholbach> excellent idea
<dholbach> rock on - thanks persia - somebody please add it
<StevenK> Maybe not setting a date, but at least discussing it.
<TheMuso> +1
<persia> StevenK: I'd rather set a date each time.
<persia> (or attempt to do so)
<dholbach> yes, I think it's good to settle on it and get moving quickly
<ScottK> StevenK: Maybe we set a date like two months from today....
<StevenK> Fair enough.
<Hobbsee> persia: good idea
<dholbach> ok cool, moving on
<dholbach> persia's second item is: Does the Sponsorship Process need adjustment for SRUs?
<dholbach> hi crimsun
<dholbach> persia: what is the problem that you're seeing with sponsoring and SRUs?
<persia> The sponsorship queue seems to be working very well for bugs against gutsy, but SRUs are not being processed as quickly.  Should there be a different procedure for these?
<persia> dholbach: Right.  The SRUs aren't attracting as much sponsorship attention, and I'm wondering if a process change or a team would help.
* Hobbsee doesnt do SRU's.
<ScottK> persia: My generic problem with the UUS queue is I have a hard time telling if something's ready to be sponsored if I only have time to deal with one or two.
<ScottK> So I look and throw up my hands.
<ScottK> And move on.
<ScottK> This is true for SRU or not.
<dholbach> so if I want to do a SRU, I file a bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it and nobody will upload because it's feisty-proposed instead of gutsy in the upload target?
<StevenK> I think the problem is that sponsors might go, "Ooh, an SRU. I'm not qualified/care enough to deal with it, since SRUs are Big and Scary"
<persia> ScottK: My method is to grab the first couple and take a quick look.  If something is funny, I invalidate and otherwise upload.
<ScottK> I did an SRU this week because it was one I hit that was ready.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> dholbach: Some of them are being processed, but it doesn't happen as quickly.
* persia seconds StevenK
<crimsun> what seems to be the mean lag order on SRU processing?  Weeks?  Months?
<Hobbsee> and you usually get shot down if the fix doesnt actually fix the problem, etc.
* ScottK tends to think along the lines of it's really broken now (or it wouldn't qualify for SRU), so how much worse can I make it..
* TheMuso hasn't done SRUs simply because he hasn't aquainted himself properly with the procedure, which is just a amtter of reading.
<dholbach> what could we do to request more reassurement?
<persia> crimsun: I haven't calculated that, but there are at least a couple that are from May.
<StevenK> Maybe an SRU should adopt a REVU like solution. Two ACKs for it to be okay, and the second one uploads it.
<dholbach> StevenK: that'd revert some parts of the universe sru process - we'd have a team that'd evaluate it again - I personally don't think that's wrong at all
<ScottK> Maybe people needing sponsoring for an SRU should add a tag for SRU and release (like sru edgy)
<StevenK> dholbach: I don't see that as being a bad thing, speaking as a former member of motu-sru. :-)
<persia> I think it would be better to have the ACK be optional, rather than required, just to not interfere with the security processing.
<ScottK> Once someone's reviewed it they add a tag like motu.
<StevenK> SRU isn't security. And shouldn't be.
<ScottK> StevenK: +1
<dholbach> I think it'd help if people just verified it and asked in #ubuntu-motu or in the mailing list for a second opinion
<StevenK> Which is informally my suggestion anyway
* ScottK would join a team looking at SRUs.  
<dholbach> ok, so how would we go about codifying it?
<crimsun> maybe it's a simple lack of publicity
<persia> The value to formalisation is that the docs will point people to the right thing (if someone writes a doc), whereas informal may not become part of out collective knowledge.
<StevenK> ScottK: We played that game, and then stopped
* ScottK knows
<dholbach> maybe just add a tag needs-sru-verification or something?
* ScottK prefers the tag approach.
<persia> StevenK: Is there a reason there couldn't be a volunteer team that worked on them, despite the lack of a formal requirement for ACK?
<crimsun> I'm not convinced that throwing more overhead into it really helps; people seemed unhappy with collecting ACKs
* ScottK would help on a team, but doesn't think it's the best way.
<StevenK> crimsun: Agreed
<TheMuso> crimsun: +1
<dholbach> it wouldn't be a necessity
<dholbach> just asking for another opinion
<dholbach> (in case you're unsure)
<dholbach> that tag would say "I'm happy with it, but please make sure and upload if you think it's ok too"
<persia> Alternately, with -proposed in place, should there be a strong gatekeeper?  Is there any reason not to upload if it looks sane, and let the standard SRU process filter?
<StevenK> Whereas you don't have to set it and can just upload it if you think it's okay as well
<crimsun> does LP have an interface for say, a weekly cron executed from tiber (or elsewhere) that would search for tagged SRU bug reports and send an email to ubuntu-motu@ ?
<ScottK> One process clarification....  If I sponsor someone's SRU, am I responsible for writing the mail to the mailing list/setting tags/etc or are they?
<persia> ScottK: currently, you are (I prefer the sponsoree to be responsible).
<ScottK> persia: That's what I thought.
<ScottK> That might also be a barrier to getting SRUs uploaded.
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=motu-sru-verification
<dholbach> or something
<ScottK> Maybe we should change that.  After all the one that wrote the fix is most familiar/cares.
<TheMuso> After reading the procedure, SRUs are now clearer to me, and are easier than I thought.
<dholbach> I think it'd be ok for the sponsor to tell the fix author to write the mail or for them to agree on a procedure
<dholbach> so they can figure it out on their own
<persia> Is there a mechanism (other than IRC) for removing the uploads from -proposed if the author doesn't follow-up?
<ScottK> persia: Unless they are known to be broken, I don't see a harm in leaving them there.
<crimsun> persia: the normal "file a bug, subscribe ubuntu-archive"
<dholbach> bug reports with ubuntu-archive subscribed?
<dholbach> does anybody object adding a tag to ask for a second opinion and making the sponsor-mails-the-lists rule more lax and wiki-ing and announcing it?
<persia> So, unless there is more discussion, I'll update the sponsor queue processing guide to indicate that SRUs should be uploaded to -proposed if sane, that MOTUs are welcome to use the motu-sru-verification tag if they aren't sure, and that the author may be responsible for the notifications and follow-up if so agreed in advance.
<siretart> hi! (sorry for being late)
<StevenK> persia: +1
* Hobbsee requests keybuk's presence here for the MoM/DaD discussion
<dholbach> persia: great
<ScottK> persia: +1
<dholbach> thanks a lot persia
<TheMuso> +1
<geser> +1
<ScottK> siretart: Thanks for volunteering to be in charge of the revised SRU process.
<dholbach> ScottK: wants to talk about clamav
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> dholbach: Let Adri2000 go first.
<StevenK> Purge clamav from the archive.
<siretart> ScottK: huh? sorry?
<dholbach> ok, I'm happy with that
* ScottK understands he/lutin have to run.
<StevenK> Let's move on.
<ScottK> siretart: Just kidding.
* StevenK smirks.
<dholbach> Lutin, Adri2000: your stage
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaDandMoM
<Adri2000> okay
<bashelier> may I go ?
<Adri2000> I think bashelier has a quick intro
<Adri2000> ho
<Adri2000> go
<bashelier> Ubuntu is a free and open-source distribution, then it seems normal to develop an open-source tool to replace a proprietary one. This is the case for MoM and DaD, and moreover when both tool, one free and one non-free, we usually use the free one. But the fact to have two merge tools is quite confusing, especially that MoM is supported by Canonical and DaD is not.
<bashelier> But the fact is that DaD seems to be, at least for universe, very used, see comments in http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php for example. Then there are several possible issue to this problem, see the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaDandMoM for further informations.
<Adri2000> after a discussion in -motu, we set up this wikipage in order to solve this issue
<Hobbsee> what are we attempting to acheieve out of this?  a recommendation on which to use?  a way to find out if and how DaD/MoM can integrate?
<Hobbsee> i'm finding this slightly unclear
<StevenK> "MoM isn't free, ours is and apparently better, so let's use it for everything." is what I can see.
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: avoid confusion, especially for newcomers, about which one to use, why there are two merge systems
<persia> StevenK: See Proposal #3
<bashelier> 3. Add DaD's features to MoM, and keep MoM closed
<dholbach> I think it's better to send the proposal to ubuntu-devel@ and CC keybuk
<dholbach> as the scope of the proposal is not just universe
<dholbach> and motu
<siretart> my 2 : the killer feature of DaD are the comments. they might not be as necessary for main, but I think they help a lot in universe.
<TheMuso> agreed. Core devs have to feel comfortable with this as well.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i can do that.  i was speaking to sabdfl about this earlier anyway, and he asked to be CC'd
<dholbach> nice
<Hobbsee> whihc things of DaD do we want added to MoM?
<ScottK> But someone should e-mail keybuck first so he doesn't get blindsided.
<Adri2000> dholbach: but I haven't seen any core-dev using DaD, so I'm not sure they are very well aware of the problem
* persia likes comments
<bashelier> Hobbsee: comments
<siretart> since it is used a lot in universe, I think we can settle on DaD for universe
<Hobbsee> sorry, i meant apart from the comments
<dholbach> Adri2000: we all agree that there should be one solution and comments are good
<Hobbsee> is there anything *apart* from them?
* ScottK thinks the fact that it runs more often is good.
* ScottK also like that it'll do the maintainer mangling for you.
<persia> I thought MoM ran every 15 minutes now.
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: open-source, automatic maintainer update
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: auto maintainer update?
* ScottK also likes the open source part.
<TheMuso> I'm not so sure that auto maintainer update is the best thing in the world
<Hobbsee> oh, maintainer mangling
<persia> I don't like the implementation of the auto-maintainer-update - it sometimes breaks things.
<siretart> Hobbsee: having active and responsive maintainers
<Hobbsee> hi Keybuk
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: yes, DaD automagically updates the maintainer field if it isn't yet an @ubuntu.com address
<dholbach> Keybuk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaDandMoM is the proposal we're talking about
<Adri2000> using the update-maintainer script from Lutin
<Lutin> persia: please mails me about that with examples, will have a look asap
<Adri2000> hi Keybuk
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: the upshot of this is, MoM is missing the comments field and maintainer mangling.  The attempt is to find which one to use and recommend to prospective developers, looking into doing merging.
<Lutin> heya Keybuk
<persia> Lutin - it's the same class of bugs we discussed before for which I said I'd hunt a patch.  No worries.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: do you have any thoughts on this?
<Keybuk> MoM also fulfils our obligations to Debian about returning patches, which DaD doesn't
<Lutin> persia: ok, cool
<sistpoty|work> Keybuk: but that's unrelated with displaying stuff for merges, right?
<Keybuk> no
<siretart> Keybuk: espc. in universe land the commenting feature of DaD have been very helpful. Is there any possibility to 'free mom' (or at least the relevant parts) so that we can send you patches which implement them?
<Keybuk> it's part of the same process and tool
<Keybuk> siretart: that is a question for sabdfl
<sistpoty|work> Keybuk: the same tool, I can see, but in what way the same process?
<Adri2000> Keybuk: I didn't know returning patches was MoM's job, but could have I known since MoM is closed? :)
<Keybuk> Adri2000: that is not a useful comment
<Adri2000> that was just to introduce proposal #1
<Keybuk> from what I can see
<Keybuk> DaD has many of the problems we fixed with MoM a long time ago
<Keybuk> (reliance on snapshot.dn, for example)
<Keybuk> but has a prettier web interface
<Keybuk> MoM is pretty reliable and rock-solid, but has a web interface written by someone who hates HTML (me)
<ScottK> So isn't there some way we can take the best of both and (ironically) merge them?
<Adri2000> Keybuk: how does MoM get the base version when it's not available on snapshot.d.n?
<persia> Keybuk: Could others help with the interface?
<bashelier> that's proposal #4
<bashelier> Free only part(s) of MoM, such as the UI
<Keybuk> the UI isn't non-free
<Keybuk> it's exactly what you see there, an HTML page that's written out by some crappy python
<Keybuk> MoM could write out a list of packages available for merging, and useful information about them, (such as URLs, version numbers, etc.) to a machine-parseable file
<Keybuk> that the DaD UI could pick up and use for tracking
<dholbach> what do you think about taking this to ubuntu-devel@ and also including sabdfl in the discussions?
<persia> Let's call that proposal #5
<dholbach> at the moment, I don't see us coming to a conclusion in this meeting
<bashelier> Keybuk: DaD UI is generated from something like http://dad.dunnewind.net/tomerge-universe, then it would be simple yes
* ScottK thinks it should all be opened up unless there is a strong reason not.
<sistpoty|work> what if MoM will be out again during the next merge cycle?
* ScottK also agrees with dholbach that it's not going to get completely solved here.
<Keybuk> ScottK: Canonical would like to be able to pay its developers, and would like to be able to offer tools such as MoM as a paid service to other distros
<Keybuk> that is the fundamental rationale for why we've never released the code
<ScottK> Keybuk: I understand there's a balance here.
<Keybuk> sistpoty|work: it won't?
<sistpoty|work> good :)
<Keybuk> it was down due to hardware issues; which are unrelated to the software
<sistpoty|work> but not unrelated to the freeness :P
<ScottK> From a user of the service perspective though, the why is irrelevant.
<Keybuk> totally unrelated
<Keybuk> if the source were open, you'd still need someone with good bandwidth and .5TB of risk
<Keybuk> uh, of disk
<Keybuk> :p
<TheMuso> hahaha
<siretart> bashelier: Adri2000: what do you think about MoM giving status about available packages to merge, and make DaD a frontend to that?
<ScottK> Yes.  Getting that didn't seem to be a problem.
<bashelier> siretart: I also have a proposal #6
<bashelier> siretart: why not to keep both DaD and MoM, and join the comments, I mean have unique comments for the two tools, which would help to avoid duplicated work, and let the choice for the favorite tool.
<bashelier> but use DaD as an UI, why not.
<Adri2000> siretart: I think it's a good idea
<dholbach> ok great
<dholbach> let's see how that works out
<ScottK> It's certainly a start.
<Keybuk> I have no problem with somebody implementing a UI for MoM (I can hardly call the current report html a UI :p)
<Keybuk> I can ensure that the appropriate data is available
<dholbach> nice :-)
<Adri2000> Keybuk: and put this UI on merges.ubuntu.com?
<AndyP> like launchpad is closed but still accepts bug reports from it's users (good thing), is MoM open to bug reports/feature requests too?
<Keybuk> We also have no problem if a community member wishes access to the MoM source under an NDA, and can hack on it themselves
<Keybuk> AndyP: of course
<Keybuk> Adri2000: depending on what it's written in, sure
<TheMuso> I would like to see if any core devs have an opinion, as the new UI could effect them as well.
<geser> is MoM all python?
<Keybuk> geser: yes;
<Lutin> TheMuso: indeed
<TheMuso> Or at the least, get some core dev's thoughts.
<Keybuk> the usual theory with core-dev is that MoM implements the minimum necessary
<TheMuso> Right.
<Keybuk> we don't tend to care so much about claims, or treading on people's toes
<Keybuk> since we're a smaller team with a much smaller based of packages
<dholbach> ok, are there any more open questions about this item?
<TheMuso> Nevertheless, if the UI is going to change, wider opinions should be considered.
<persia> I'd like to see comments on main, if only to say (as a MOTU) - I'll be a while on this one - someone should grab it if they're interested.
<Keybuk> on the options on the wiki:
<Keybuk> #1 is probably untenable, unless you can persuade sabdfl of the benefits since it's his call
<ScottK> The DaD team working the UI should also consider the new/updated merges split that MoM has (and explain the difference somewhere).
<Keybuk> #2 is also untenable, since MoM does more than just "merges"; not to mention is a much more mature solution than DaD
<Keybuk> #3 seems reasonable from a UI POV.
<Keybuk> ScottK: hah
<Keybuk> ScottK: the DaD team could do a *much* better job <g>
<Keybuk> the difference between new/updated is "does the top entry in debian/changelog say 'gutsy'?"
<ScottK> Right.
<Keybuk> it assumes that if the package has ever been uploaded to the current distro, it is "updated"
* ScottK only recently figured that out.
<Keybuk> so often updated things have never been merged
<dholbach> thanks a lot Lutin, bashelier and Adri2000 for working on this
<dholbach> is it ok to discuss the implications of the UI changes on the mailing list?
<TheMuso> +1
<bashelier> dholbach: yes
<Adri2000> yep
<Lutin> yep
<persia> Sounds good to me.
<dholbach> thanks a lot - please write also to the mailing list once people can test the UI
<siretart> well, we need help from the MoM side
<Lutin> well, gotta run. see you later
<dholbach> bye Lutin - have a nice day
<Keybuk> siretart: scott@ubuntu.com :-)
<dholbach> shall we move on to ScottK's item?
<Keybuk> (well, when I have my mail server running again <g>)
<TheMuso> Thanks for your time Keybuk.
<dholbach> thanks Keybuk
<dholbach> ScottK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-June/001747.html - your stage
<ScottK> When last we met (that I was here) there was a move to go look at the API differences between libclamav1 and libclamav2 and see how big a deal they are.  I asked for volunteers to work on that (I'm hopelessly unqualified) and got zero volunteers.  The next idea I have for clamav and rdepends support is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-June/001747.html - I'll give everyone a minute to read ...
<ScottK> It's clear we need to do something, particularly for server LTS support.
<Hobbsee> thankyou Keybuk
<ScottK> Comments?
<ajmitch> as it is, clamav won't be getting updated definitions with 0.8x
<persia> I don't think a separate project works well, unless there is strong repository support.  Also, it breaks things if volunteers don't step up for all the rdepends.  Lastly, is makes security updates harder.
<ScottK> The trick is that by backporting just clamav, we can give the appearance of coverage, without the actuality.  If you doubt me, go try and find a test virus with the version of clamtk released for Feisty.
<ajmitch> persia: that's ok, as it stands clamav can't get security fixes anyway :)
<ScottK> My thought is to have a team to test and then have a wiki to describe what's been tested/works/is broken so people know what they are getting into.
<ajmitch> ScottK: using PPAs?
<persia> ScottK: I like the idea of a team, but why not use normal SRUs for it all?  It's a lot of things to push at once, but I'd rather see it in the normal archive.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm open on the exact mechanism.  I'd envisioned repositories similar to -backports, but that would get the archive admins off the critical path.
<dholbach> I just checked - the diff between libclamav from dapper to gutsy is around 62K lines
<ScottK> persia: If there were enough resources to SRU everything that needed changing, we wouldn't be here.
<ajmitch> dholbach: that's just the library, right?
<TheMuso> ouch
<persia> ScottK: True.
<ScottK> clamav has a painful number of rdepends.
<dholbach> yes clamav*/libclamav
<ScottK> We won't get all of them.
<ajmitch> a lot of applications would need significant changes (new upstream versions) to work with the newer clamav
* ScottK will do the stuff I use.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Definitely.
<ScottK> That's why the current clamav doesn't qualify for regular backports even.
<dholbach> up until now, it looks like added API (which is no trouble) and changed return values
<dholbach> it's not feasible to make a wiki page with lists of changes
<TheMuso> ~/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<dholbach> I think it'd take trial&error just trying to compile older versions with the newer clamav
<ScottK> dholbach: I was thinking more like a list of known to work/known not to work.
<dholbach> if we were to patch things
<ScottK> I think patching things just isn't going to get there as you couldn't backport the newer clamav until you had patches for ALL the rdepends.
<ScottK> Heat death of the Universe would happen first.
* ajmitch imagines the pain if clamav was in main
<dholbach> we had 21 source package or something?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I was thinking about that earlier.
<dholbach> ({build-,}depending on it?
<geser> yes, something like that
<lionel> do we know how they manage it in volatile.debian.net ? Here there are latest version of clamav. It may break things (I did not dig in it)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: at least then it'd be Not Our Problem :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: heh
<ScottK> lionel: That's just the latest upstream.
<ScottK> It'll break things.
<Hobbsee_> ajmitch: try not to think about it
<lionel> ah, thanks ScottK
<dholbach> ScottK: is dapper -> gutsy what we're looking at atm (regarding API breakage)?
<ScottK> No, Feisty.
<ScottK> Dapper -> Feisty.
<dholbach> ok
<ScottK> Feisty is good until the next API change...
<dholbach> what if we all grabbed a source package or two each and at least tried building it and see how it goes?
<ScottK> But as an example of the kinds of problems backporting the newer clamav's would cause, the clamtk in Feisty can't find virus.
<TheMuso> Could we try and encourage upstream to make it easier to support older versions with defs etc?
<dholbach> I won't pretend I hadn't other things to do, but I see it as the only realistic option atm
<siretart> ScottK: did you talk to upstream about the problem? how do they think about it?
<dholbach> for some build problems you could even find patches in the upstream cvs
<ScottK> siretart: Upgrade to the latest version.
<dholbach> most projects will have adapted to the new clam api
<ajmitch> trying to get those patches to apply to the older versions could be interesting
<ScottK> The basic clamav perspective, as I understand it, is there is no promise of API stability until they get to 1.0 and whatever happens in the mean time is a personal problem.
<TheMuso> hmpf
<siretart> ScottK: so they are not helpful at all. interesting
<dholbach> not pretty, but this might be a start for a clamtk patch: http://clamtk.cvs.sourceforge.net/clamtk/clamtk/clamtk?r1=1.45&r2=1.40&view=patch
* ScottK thinks something needs to be done separate repo (or PPA) wise as otherwise everything needs to be upgraded in synch.
<dholbach> I still think that backporting clamav + fixing apps is not impossible
<ScottK> dholbach: But you need that for all the rdpends published at the same time you publish the new clamav
<ScottK> dholbach: It's the synchronization that'll be the problem.
<dholbach> you can add Breaks: for that
<dholbach> so people won't upgrade until the new version is in
* persia likes the idea of 10 people each grabbing 2 packages, say Tuesday, and preparing a bundle.
<dholbach> it's ugly, but possible
<ScottK> Oh?
* ScottK didn't know about that one.
<dholbach> assuming we had 'breaks:' in dapper already
<ajmitch> I don't think we did
<dholbach> adding conflicts for things like that is rather discouraged
<persia> Real Breaks: support is new for Gutsy, isn't it?
<ScottK> If you can do that, then it'd be doable.
<ajmitch> "The dpkg in edgy now supports a new kind of dependency relationship, `Breaks'"
<ajmitch> so, edgy
<dholbach> edgy, ok - hrm
<ScottK> So need to backport that first.
<dholbach> not going to happen
<dholbach> we won't upload a dpkg/apt with new features
<ScottK> Then that leaves the LTS release stil screwed.
<dholbach> we should discuss that point on the list
* ScottK thinks that is a good idea for LTS +1
<dholbach> primarily we should try fixing the stuff
<dholbach> even if the deployment of the fix is still an open issue
<ScottK> dholbach: But without Breaks, we'd still need fixes for everything before we backport.  That's never gonna happen.
<dholbach> ScottK: can you make a wiki page of the affected packages and ask for help in backporting them to work with the new clamav?
<dholbach> I'd sign up for one or two
<ScottK> First I guess we need to do testing.
<dholbach> I think we should offer a complete transition and attack the backport problem as a team
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> some might be easy, for some we might find upstream patches, some might be real work
<dholbach> but we'll never find out otherwise
* ScottK can make a wiki page with a list of rdepends and people can mark it up as they test stuff.
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> trying to build them in a chroot is of real help already
<ScottK> One related point is that the unmodified source package for clamav won't build on Dapper.
<ScottK> It needs the Edgy dpgk.
<sistpoty|work> sorry, need to be off again... cya
<dholbach> see you sistpoty|work
<dholbach> ScottK: we should work around that
<ScottK> It's a two line change in debian/control.
<dholbach> that's fine
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> ok, shall we move on?
<ScottK> dholbach: So the action out of the meeting is for me to make a wiki page.
<dholbach> yes and announce it on the mailing list
<TheMuso> ~
<TheMuso> ~
<TheMuso> ugh
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks a lot for insisting on making a solution happen
<ScottK> dholbach: One sec
<ScottK> I also think we should make a team of interested people.
* ScottK will do that too.
<dholbach> ok cool
<ScottK> OK, now move on...
<dholbach> thanks again ScottK
<dholbach> we have a few dates to agree on
<dholbach> next MOTU meeting?
<dholbach> 2 weeks from now? same time?
<TheMuso> Sounds good.
<dholbach> any objections?
<Hobbsee> that works
<dholbach> ok cool - who will announce it?
<persia> I'd like to see a time rotation, to be fair to those who haven't attended in a month.  +/- 12 hours?
<StevenK> No objections, works for me.
<Hobbsee> my only objection is that two weeks aftre that, which will be the next proposed meeting, is likely during SLUG
<Hobbsee> which various members are planning to actually attend
<StevenK> The SLUG meeting is happening now, too
<Hobbsee> true
<dholbach> ok then thursday - move by 12h?
<ScottK> dholbach: Could we have it an hour or two later.
<dholbach> sure we can - we just need to agree
<ajmitch> dholbach: 12h earlier than now?
<ScottK> Make the next one +14 and then go +12 after that
<dholbach> ScottK: so time and date would be?
<Hobbsee> can you give absolute times please?  not everyone lives on your timezone
<dholbach> (it'll be too late for me in europe, but that's fine)
<ScottK> OK, then maybe one hour.
<ScottK> 1200 UTC Friday, whicher date it is
<ScottK> Err
<ScottK> 0000 UTC Saturday
<ScottK> Then 1200 UTC after that
<dholbach> I won't be around - as I'll be in london at that time, but that's fine with me if others can agree on it
<ScottK> Anyone?
<persia> I like 0 UTC (as part of rotation).
<ScottK> 0/12000 UTC.  Any objections?
<TheMuso> No.
<Hobbsee> should be OK here, 10am
<dholbach> so that'd be two meetings?
<persia> dholbach: No.  0 UTC is proposed for now + 2 weeks, with 12 UTC sugggested for now L 4 weeks (we'll review in 2 weeks).
<dholbach> ok fine with me
<dholbach> who announces it?
<dholbach> come on
* persia volunteers for week-in-advance email, but would likely again forget the day-in-advance email.
<dholbach> persia: thanks
<dholbach> next Universe HUG DAY?
<dholbach> I'd like us to make an effort to tag bugs and offer mentoring for them
<dholbach> I get a lot of requests of people who don't know where to start helping out
<dholbach> we should make an effort to help newcomers into the team :)
<dholbach> so what about friday next week?
<ajmitch> sounds ok
<TheMuso> next week?
* TheMuso won't be here.
<dholbach> who of you will help out?
* ajmitch probably can, since it'll be saturday
* ScottK will be around, but working so can help some.
<ajmitch> nothing better to do on a friday night :)
<dholbach> ok, if there's no other proposal, let's go with that, I'll announce it
<dholbach> next Q&A sessions?
<dholbach> was anybody of you there yesterday?
<ajmitch> nope
<dholbach> would it be ok to do them in #ubuntu-motu?
<Hobbsee> i'd suggest that's a good idea
* TheMuso thinks so
<dholbach> ok
<persia> That seems a better place.
<AndyP> i think it was forgotten about, and no one turned up in #ubuntu-classroom looking for Q&A... perhaps better advertising next time :)
<dholbach> shall we do them in thursday two weeks at 0 and 12 utc?
<dholbach> if you have a blog, please blog about all the events we do
<dholbach> I'll do that too and announce the Q&A sessions, if we agree on the date and time
<dholbach> ok, I take that as no objections
<dholbach> moving on
<dholbach> next REVU day?
<dholbach> as the situation is rather desperate.... what about monday? :-)
* persia wonders if there is a good definition of expected activities for a REVU day.
<TheMuso> I'd rather not have it in the next week, as I'd like to help, but won't be around.
<dholbach> TheMuso: we'll do another revu day the week after that - how about that?
<dholbach> so best to agree on two dates
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm easy, but would like to help
<dholbach> persia: working through the lists of REVU and ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors?
<persia> So two days?  I like Tuesdays or Thursdays.
<dholbach> TheMuso: cool
<dholbach> oh, I mean a day each in next week and the one after that
<persia> dholbach: Ah.  I wonder if there shouldn't be a wiki page or something.
<ScottK> Wed next week is a major holiday in the US.
<dholbach> persia: MOTU/Reviewing? :)
<dholbach> ScottK: so you think it'd be a good thing to do it on wednesday?
<ScottK> dholbach: No.  Stay away from it.
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> the next two mondays then?
<ScottK> Independence Day generally has a lot of people outside and away from computers here.
<persia> dholbach: Cluttered namespace, but I'll add a note on REVU days to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing
<ScottK> Many people travel too, so Monday is good.
<dholbach> persia: thanks
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> I'll make sure to announce it
<dholbach> and please blog about it, if you can - it's good to stir up some interest in the activities we do, they deserve it :)
* TheMuso needs to get a blog first.
<dholbach> I think that's all from our agenda
<TheMuso> :p
<dholbach> do we have anything else?
<jhansonxi> I have a question about Wine desktop files
* ScottK thinks congratulations are in order for our two new MOTUs.  
<dholbach> jhansonxi: would it be ok to ask it in #ubuntu-motu?
<dholbach> ScottK: absolutely
<ScottK> just a note for the minutes
<ScottK> Since I don't think either is present.
<ajmitch> are we up to date with new MOTU applications?
<dholbach> thanks calc and nixternal for all the work you put into Ubuntu :-)
<ScottK> Actually, congrats nixternal
<dholbach> ajmitch: no, bluekuja and YokoZar and one core-dev application are in the loop
<dholbach> ok, that's that then
<dholbach> thanks all for coming - have a nice day
<TheMuso> np
* ajmitch presumes that they can be approved with 3 or 4 out of 5 giving a response
<dholbach> ajmitch: bluekuja and yokozar don't have any vote
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch should sleep now anyway
* persia wonders if welcome of new MOTUs and status of pending applications should be a regular item.
<dholbach> welcoming new MOTUs should be
<dholbach> I already sent mails to ubuntu-devel@ about it
<dholbach> but it'd be nice to welcome them in the meeting also
<dholbach> for status of pending applications I'm not sure
<dholbach> I mean I'm happy to give a statement on it, but I don't know if it helps much
<persia> Right.  I withdraw that - it's properly MOTU Council.
<ajmitch> and we don't have separate MC meetings
<persia> ajmitch: But you deliberate in other forums, no?
<ajmitch> only the mailing list
<persia> Hmm.  I stand by my withdrawl, but wouldn't oppose another suggesting it.
<ajmitch> ok, meeting over, let's all go home :)
<ScottK> Bye all.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<asac> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-30
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> @schedule france
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 02 Jul 23:00: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 05:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-24
<Belutz> @schedule jakarta
<ubottu> Belutz: Schedule for Asia/Jakarta: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 18:00: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 24 Jun 22:00:  Server Team | 25 Jun 01:00: LoCo Council | 26 Jun 00:00: QA Team | 26 Jun 05:00: Platform Team
<jsgotangco> oh there is a meeting today?
<Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
<jsgotangco> cool :)
<Belutz> jsgotangco, shall we move the meeting to Plurk? :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<Belutz> lol
<Rafik> @now
<ubottu> Rafik: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 24 2008, 09:23:50 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
 * elky lurks around for about 6 minutes...
<zarul> e-jat
<amachu_> Belutz: elky: TheMuso: persia: lifeless: Hi
<TheMuso> Greetings./
<persia> Good evening
<Belutz> amachu, hi
<elky> i suppose i should find the agenda page...
<amachu_> hello every body
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<nbliang> hi
<TheMuso> elky: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania?highlight=%28oceania%29
<elky> thanks :)
<amachu_> here we go
<amachu_> Welcome every body to this meeting of Asia Oceania Membership Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<e-jat> zarul, yes
<e-jat> evening all ..
<amachu_> Shall we start calling participants as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<nbliang> ready
<zarul> mypapit?
<e-jat> zarul, im not sure ..
<zarul> he is not applying?
<amachu_> nbliang: Please introduce yourself to the Board, explaing your activities
<nbliang> ok
<nbliang> Hi, I am Nicholas Ng from Malaysia. I am an evangelist and supporter for Ubuntu and actively involved in educating and promoting the usage of Ubuntu to public, organizations, businesses and government
<e-jat> maybe he did not notice bout the meeting
<nbliang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nbliang [wiki] & https://launchpad.net/~nbliang [launchpad]
<nbliang> I am also the co-founder and a committee member of Kuching Open Source Community (http://www.kuchingosc.org/) where we introduce, promote and support Ubuntu to public around Sarawak, mainly in Kuching, Malaysia
<zarul> welcome BuffaloSoldier
<e-jat> welcome BuffaloSoldier
<nbliang> I have been involved with Ubuntu for few years now and do contribute as much as I could during my free or spare time. My contributions includes (1) translation via Launchpad for Malay language, (2) promoting & supporting Ubuntu usage in Malaysia, especially in Sarawak by giving talks, demonstration and installation and so forth. You can see my contribution list from my Launchpad (https://launchpad
<nbliang> .net/~nbliang/+participation)
<jsgotangco> hi :)
<nbliang> https://launchpad.net/~nbliang/+participation
<Belutz> jsgotangco, hi :)
<nbliang> also a member of Malaysia Ubuntu Team
<nbliang> ubuntu-my
 * BuffaloSoldier here to give my support to nbliang 
<nbliang> thanks BuffaloSoldier
<elky> nbliang you seem very active. do you hold events often?
<zarul> +1 from me
<zarul> he has been with ubuntu Malaysia since day 1
<amachu_> nbliang: is that all you have to say, and shall we take it for questions now?
<zarul> and should already become a member years ago
<nbliang> yes, i am ready for question
<Belutz> nbliang, what would you do if you become an ubuntu member?
<nbliang> i actually applied long time ago, but not my turn until last meeting, but i am sick
<elky> can cheer squads please wait until introductions and questions are done? thanks :)
<TheMuso> nbliang: Has there been much female interest in Open Source/Linux in your area?
<nbliang> well, i will continue my support and providing help to public especially around my area
<nbliang> will follow the Ubuntu CoC as well as contribute as much as I can to Ubuntu and the community
<lifeless> hi, I'm here, but really tired; I'm going to pass on this meeting - sorry.
<lifeless> are we quorate without me?
<elky> i believe so, lifeless. go rest :)
<Belutz> lifeless, I think it's ok, you should have to rest
 * elky hugs lifeless
<lifeless> k, later all
<nbliang> currently I am in the talk with local OEM to distribute Ubuntu in the PC
<TheMuso> nbliang: Ok let me put it another way. What are you doing to get females interested in free/Open Source Software?
<Belutz> nbliang, do you cooperating with the member from KL ?
<nbliang> and in process of converting a local company into using Ubuntu
<amachu_> nbliang: Malasian Team yet to become Approve LoCo Team?
<elky> whoa... one question at a time!
<nbliang> to get more females coz nowadays most females are afraid of Linux
<amachu_> nbliang: a local company? can you be specific
<nbliang> ubunu-my not yet Approved LoCo Team
 * elky raises an eyebrow
<nbliang> that's what we going to do after become member
<e-jat> nbliang, we may approach females in loco university ..
<nbliang> ok, I am in process of converting a local company "Balka Approach Sdn Bhd"  to fully using Ubuntu as their hardware is quite old and they do not want to spent much $$ on updating the machines
<nbliang> e-jat: yes
<nbliang> Also, my friend's company (forgot the company name) is producing new PC (low cost) and seeking for the OS, so I am in talk with them to use Ubuntu
<nbliang> my local community (www.kuchingosc.org) will be providing supports on it as well
<amachu_> nbliang: are you with Ubuntu Malaysia since its inception?
<Belutz> nbliang, is that the local vendor you mentioned in your wiki?
<e-jat> previously when ubuntu-my doing activity in 1 of university .. got +ve feedback from the students especially the females
<nbliang> I am with Ubuntu Malaysia since day 1
<amachu_> nbliang: thats good :-)
<nbliang> yes, the local vendors r in my wiki, except that not much info in there yet as i still in talk with them
<nbliang> i also involve with local university at East Malaysia in providing training, talk and seminar to their staff and student
<nbliang> can see from my wiki page
<Belutz> nbliang, are you also involved in development of Embun?
<TheMuso> Yes, your wiki page is very well done, and goes into some great detail IMO.
<TheMuso> (in my opinion)
<nbliang> my (and few other ubuntu-my members) next move will be getting approval for ubuntu-my to be approved LoCo Team
<nbliang> Belutz: not really, but i do give comments and suggestion
<amachu_> nbliang: what difficulty have you faced with people of Malasia in switching over to Ubuntu or GNU/ Linux?
<nbliang> i have mails between them
<nbliang> amachu_: hardware support
<nbliang> and well as lack of Linux knowledge
<nbliang> also, found out that those r well in Linux tend to not share their knowledge to others at my area
<elky> so guys are also scared?
<nbliang> East Malaysia
<elky> of linux, that is?
<nbliang> nope, Linux is fun and challenging
<purserj> hi nbliang, you involved with myoss?
<nbliang> although i am not that techie on it but i provide good training and guidance on what i know
<nbliang> i am in myoss as well
<e-jat> currently me and ubuntu-my loco team trying to approach the ministry of education for students awareness about linux especially ubuntu
<purserj> so you'd know kauru and co :)
<Belutz> nbliang, have you held an ubuntu release party in kuching?
<nbliang> yes i know kaeru
<zarul> e-jat cool down
<purserj> cool
<zarul> :)
<e-jat> zarul, sorry ..
<nbliang> he is with our government OSCC, open source competency centre
<purserj> nbliang: yeah I chat with him from time to time
<purserj> over in iosn
<nbliang> Belutz: yes we did, if not mistaken is for 7.10
<nbliang> purserj: :)
 * elky notes that we need to pass a judgement. already 17 minutes gone
<nbliang> Belutz: not a big party as most of them not familiar with it yet
<Belutz> nbliang, you got +1 from me
<zarul> the longest Q & A I ever see ... hehe
<nbliang> Belutz: tq
<zarul> +1 from me
<nbliang> zarul: tq
<Belutz> hope with ubuntu membership you can keep spreading the OSS spirit in Malaysia
<nbliang> ofcoz i will
<jsgotangco> nbliang: you know colin charles too?
<nbliang> and going to get ubuntu-my approved as LoCo Team as well
<nbliang> i know him through e-mail, blog, etc but not personnaly
<nbliang> he is with MySQL atm
<amachu__> Ooof! I lost..
<amachu__> nbliang: how deep the transaltion contribution you people do reach people?
<nbliang> amachu_: still a lot to do
<nbliang> and i am encouraging more people from MY to do the translation so that we can have Malay version of Ubuntu someday
<elky> i must admit i'm personally torn. while you seem to be doing good work, your response to TheMuso's question about women is very disheartening, as women are no more scared of linux than men are.
<amachu__> just to have a feeling! how do people feel in malaysia when they see Ubuntu in their language
<nbliang> Embun is using the Malay version, but due to not complete translation, so part of it still in EN
<amachu__> elky: :-)
<zarul> elky: it depends on the places and the level of exposure of linux OS
<nbliang> elky: i mean woman around my area
<nbliang> well, personally, i talk to few of them about it, but they said English is better because the translation of EN to MY may lead to different meaning
<jsgotangco> i agree
<amachu__> nbliang: ok. are there people here to suppport you?
<nbliang> eg. the word "Burn" to burn a CD is hard to translate to correct meaning in MY
<nbliang> zarul
<nbliang> BuffaloSoldier:
<nbliang> e-jat:
<nbliang> they have been "huh hah" from the beginning
<nbliang> and all the participants are from ubuntu-my
<nbliang> :)
<nbliang> and we know each other
<amachu__> zarul: BuffaloSoldier: e-jat: can we know you all by Name
<amachu__> nbliang: ya.. ya.. witnessing them :-)
<nbliang> eerr... r they off?
<e-jat> amachu_, hi my name is Khairul Aizat Kamarudzzaman
<e-jat> nbliang, im still here ..
<zarul> amachu_ I ma the founder of Ubuntu-my and BuffaloSoldier is in ubuntu forum team...
<zarul> zarul shahrin is my full name
<nbliang> e-jat: good, coz u will be next :)
<zarul> I am through mibbit..
<zarul> sorry for that..
<zarul> and just as side note
<zarul> nbliang and ejat will be taking over the leadership of Ubuntu-my
<elky> nbliang, i'm going to give you a +1, but i really hope you take the time to be less dismissive of women in IT in the future and dont dismiss them as 'scared'.
 * Belutz agree with elky 
<nbliang> elky: that's will be one of my task to built confident for woman at my area
<zarul> I think we are getting too long here
 * TheMuso agrees also, +1 from me also.
<elky> because to be quite frank, if guys were not scared of linux either, there'd be alot more using it.
<e-jat> elky, we won't .. and we'll try out best to get them(females@women) get involve
<jsgotangco> maybe for lack of a better word
<nbliang> elky: it's not targetted to all woman, just that most of the girls i met never tried Linux
<nbliang> they know about it, but don't want to try it
<elky> nbliang, no males in my family use linux. all the women in my family do. the males dont want to try it.
<persia> +1 from me for advocacy, supporting comments, and expectation of new tasks taken to heart
<nbliang> elky: wow, i hope most MY girls are like that too
<nbliang> but my wife started to like it now
<nbliang> :)
<elky> nbliang, you'll be pleasantly surprised :)
<BuffaloSoldier> hi all.. sorry if my attention span is really short today.. still at the office :) anyway, I'm Firdaus bin Aziz
<nbliang> persia: tq
<nbliang> elky: tq
<zarul> sorry, but if you guys don't mind.. I would like to suggest to the board... can we vote and move to the next candidate?
<TheMuso> We are doing so now.
<BuffaloSoldier> +1 for nbliang
<nbliang> sorry guys, cause of me, the meeting is dragging up
<e-jat> +1 for nbliang
<zarul> +1 for nbliang
<nbliang> BuffaloSoldier: tq
<nbliang> e-jat: tq
<nbliang> zarul: tq
<persia> It tends to help the voting be clear when only board members vote.
<elky> hmm, i'll sift back through all the chatter for the votes...
<TheMuso> In case it was missed earlier, +1 from me.
<Belutz> It was +1 from me too
<nbliang> TheMuso: tq
<nbliang> Belutz: tq
<nbliang> :p
<nbliang> have been waiting for few months to get the membership
<nbliang> waiting is hard
<amachu123> +1 from me for nbliang
<elky> persia, i agree
<amachu123> :-)
<persia> I count five, and missing from lifeless and zakame
<elky> persia, same
<Belutz> lifeless is having his rest
<persia> amachu: Are you satisfied with quorum?
<nbliang> so, am i approved?
<Belutz> so I think nbliang is approved to be an Ubuntu member
<nbliang> tq guys / girls
<nbliang> elky: will not let u down in trying to convert all the girls' mind in my area
<nbliang> hope more of them r like u
<elky> nbliang, good to hear :)
<amachu123> ok we will move further
<elky> amachu123, good idea
<nbliang> again, tq to all
<amachu123> apogee ?
<Belutz> Congratulations nbliang
<nbliang> Belutz: tq
<zarul> e-jat:  where is he?
<e-jat> im here ..
<zarul> I mean apogee
<nbliang> can't contact him though
<e-jat> i've already remind him through sms ..
<e-jat> i didnt get replied from him ..
<elky> move on to the next one, we can deal with him when/if he comes
 * Belutz agree with elky 
 * TheMuso agrees.
<elky> err...
<elky> that person seems absent too
<nbliang> fenris = e-jat
<Belutz> i think fenris == e-jat
<nbliang> yes he is
<e-jat> sorry ...
<e-jat> is my nick confusing
<TheMuso> e-jat is mentioned on his wiki page.
<elky> i was reading the meeting agenda, where his nick is allegedly fenris.... :Ã
<e-jat> elky, it was in webchat ... in here ... thats nick belong to others .
<TheMuso> elky: Yeah I know, but I'm reading the wiki page. :)
<e-jat> :(
<e-jat> thanks thekorn
<elky> TheMuso, i missed that bit :(
<persia> e-jat: It's a good idea to strive for a consistent nick, so we can know who you are, and better see everything.
<e-jat> TheMuso,
 * Belutz will be right back for 10 minutes, need to do my prayer
<e-jat> persia, in here ill use e-jat
<e-jat> u mean .. for my wiki n launchpad ?
<persia> e-jat: As a goal, yes.  For now, it's not important.
<elky> ok, lets keep this discussion streamlined for Belutz's sake. e-jat would you like to give a quick explanation of yourself? :)
<e-jat> Hi, I am Khairul Aizat Kamarudzzaman from Malaysia. I am IT exec and supporter for Ubuntu and actively involved in educating and promoting the usage of Ubuntu to public, organizations, businesses and government
 * elky hands amachu_ a voucher for one internet.
<e-jat> my wiki page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fenris
<amachu_> elky: :-)
<e-jat> my launchpad, https://launchpad.net/~mohdfenris
<e-jat> my participant & contribution : https://launchpad.net/~mohdfenris/+participation
<e-jat> Currently i was assign to manage Ubuntu Malaysia Website, Forums & Activity
<amachu_> e-jat: how long have you been doing this?
<nbliang> yah, e-jat is one of the members to manage the website, forum & activity
<e-jat> oct 2007
<elky> e-jat, what is one activity you've done recently that you can describe for us?
<e-jat> since the domain up back
<e-jat> recently ... i spreading the knowledge to my big familys, friends and government officer
<amachu_> e-jat: government officer?
<amachu_> be specific
<e-jat> it officer in Ministry of education MY and their CIO
<elky> cool! what about expos or conferences, do you do much at those?
<e-jat> then i planning with them to organize event with the loco schools n university & college
 * Belutz is back
<e-jat> elky, actually the cio was my dad ..
<nbliang> he is quite active in the ubuntu-my forum
<elky> e-jat, details details ;)
<e-jat> so we always having discussion at home if he having problems
<e-jat> details for the event : previously we held an event at UiTM
<amachu_> e-jat: beyond that?
<elky> e-jat, what part of malaysia are you in?
<e-jat> elky, im in KL
<e-jat> kuala lumpur ..
<e-jat> amachu_, im also  Running & manage Ubuntu Destkop & Server for internal office for task/working environment
<elky> aha. you might know someone who wants to help the singapore team get on their feet?
<nbliang> e-jat also help in organizing the ubuntu-my activities
<e-jat> in my company were im working ..
<e-jat> such as samba n ldap using ubuntu server
<zarul> elky: singapore and KL is very far away
<e-jat> and proposing to my client
<zarul> unless they are online
<e-jat> using ubuntu for server solutions
<Belutz> yup i haven't heard a thing from singapore team
<elky> zarul, i know that. but KL is quite better connected than other parts of malaysia ;)
<nbliang> elky: SG team? i wll be going to SG end of this month, maybe can meet with them, but still depend on my schedule
<e-jat> im also
<Belutz> e-jat, what will you do if you get an ubuntu membership?
<elky> nbliang, #ubuntu-sg has had e-jat hiding in there for a few days now ;)
<elky> this is why i asked him
<e-jat> elky, i was waiting to know the SG loco team
<nbliang> i see, will talk to e-jat on that
<e-jat> Belutz, Help Ubuntu community to develop better Operating System in order to give end user the best experience.
<elky> e-jat, they are missing any active people unfortunately. the irc council is waiting for a recipient to give the channel to
<Belutz> e-jat, also a regular person in #ubuntu-id :)
<e-jat> hope to see 50% of Malaysian use linux as main Operating System.
<nbliang> e-jat: or more
<e-jat> esspecially in primary n 2ndary schools
<elky> Belutz, the South East Asia teams do alot of work together then?
<Belutz> e-jat, what do you think about ubuntu-my should malaysia and sarawak have different team or not?
<e-jat> Belutz, 1 team ..
<Belutz> elky, not yet, but i have been chatting with e-jat since a long time
<nbliang> Belutz: although we r separated by South China Sea, but we can work until 1 team
<e-jat> elky, but we plan to do ..
<e-jat> within ID , MY and SG
<elky> excellent. inter-team cooperation always helps alot
<Belutz> it's not easy to manage a lot of islans in Indonesia :(
<Belutz> s/islans/islands
<zarul> Belutz, ubuntu-my will remain one
<zarul> with 2 leaders
<zarul> one will be managing Sabah/Sarawak
<Belutz> zarul, that would be a bad idea in my opinion
<zarul> and the other person in Peninsular
<zarul> and anything that needs a whole team decision
<zarul> the two leaders will have to talk with each other
<Belutz> zarul, we'll discuss that later
<zarul> ok
<amachu_> Belutz: we are deviating
<amachu_> :-)
<nbliang> actually not leader in ubuntu-my, but leader to manage the area
<Belutz> amachu_, yes :)
<zarul> amachu I agreed
<elky> ok, i think it's time to vote
<nbliang> can i vote? +1 for e-jat
<elky> (please only council members, so we dont get lost!)
<Belutz> one more question from me
<elky> Belutz, sure?
<Belutz> e-jat, how many ubuntu events have you held in KL ?
<amachu_> e-jat: i felt you wiki should have reflected more
<amachu_> nbliang: its upto the Board :-)
<TheMuso> amachu_: I agree.
<e-jat> Belutz, since im quite new to my community
<nbliang> hehee... k, just wantd to give support to my team
<e-jat> just 1 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/sumardi/sets/72157603969964943/ some photo
<amachu_> nbliang: i understand
<e-jat> plan to have more in da future ..
<Belutz> e-jat, how many participants in that event?
<e-jat> almost 100+
<Belutz> great
<e-jat> looks more gals in the event
<elky> amachu_, i think he covered what he needed, but some fluffing so we didnt have to go on a click frenzy would have been nice
 * Belutz give e-jat +1 for his contributions to ubuntu-my team, looking forward for more events from ubuntu-my :-)
<elky> everyone ready to vote?
<TheMuso> yep
<e-jat> Belutz, tq .. we will .. and if possible we arrange combine my n id ..
<elky> *cough* Belutz amachu_ persia TheMuso *cough*?
<TheMuso> +1 from me.
 * persia can vote
<e-jat> TheMuso, tq
<persia> Reviewing the log, it's a little tricky to cleanly separate e-jat from ubuntu-my on some of the questions.  I'M voting +1 based on work with forums, website, mailing list, etc.
<elky> we can still finish in under an hour if we hurry! :D
<e-jat> thanks persia
<elky> ewwwww lag!
<persia> e-jat: Please do bulk up your wiki page to better show your activities, which otherwise only become clear in discussion and reviewing many websites.
<e-jat> persia, thanks for the comment .. yes i will
<nbliang> cheers e-jat !!
<e-jat> tq nbliang
<elky> +1 from me too based on the services and work with his government contact ;)
<e-jat> elky, tq
<e-jat> im also working close with kaeru as he in OSCC
 * Belutz congratulate e-jat 
<nbliang> yeah, hope to see entire MY government converted into using FOSS
<e-jat> plan to do more ubuntu marketing with OSCC to MY government
<amachu__> e-jat: best wishes, and work together will all around you now, to take ubuntu to more people in Malasia
<e-jat> thanks amachu_
<nbliang> ok then, gtg home fetch my wife. congratulations e-jat !!
<e-jat> tq again nbliang
<e-jat> nbliang, drive carefully
<nbliang> sure do, u too
<amachu__> Belutz: elky: TheMuso: persia: lifeless: is that all ?
<amachu__> shall we conclude the day's meeting
<Belutz> amachu_, I think that is all
<TheMuso> I think thats all yes.
<amachu__> i should get better internet connectivity next time :-(
<persia> I have one minor administrative item
<amachu__> persia: yes
<elky> persia, which is?
<persia> Could we put the time of the next meeting on our wiki page a little more in advance?  I feel like we're not giving potential candidates much notice.
<nbliang> persia: agree !!
<nbliang> ok, bye
<nbliang> again, thanks to all
<amachu__> persia: agree. But i do mail participants personally too.
<e-jat> agree with elky
<amachu__> persia: we should do that
<amachu__> any thing else?
 * elky cries at the lag
<TheMuso> I think thats it.
<elky> i think we're done?
 * Belutz hugs amachu_, TheMuso, elky, persia and zarul 
 * e-jat hugs Belutz amachu_ TheMuso elky persia zarul n all in here
<elky> hehe
<Belutz> elky, i have a question for you
<elky> Belutz, hmm?
<Belutz> make it 2 questions
<amachu__> fine then. Thank you everyone for participating and best wishes for our new Members nbliang and fenris
 * elky refrains from hmm'ing again, as it makes questions multiply :)
<Belutz> 1. is there any FOSS events in Australia around October/November ?
<e-jat> thanks amachu_
<BuffaloSoldier> congrats nbliang and fenris
<e-jat> tq BuffaloSoldier
<Belutz> 2. why you change from elkbuntu into elky? :-)
<amachu__> Belutz: add me also to that question
<amachu__> #2
<amachu__> ;-)
<elky> Belutz, 1. not that i know of, OSDC is early december... 2. each time my bip proxy reconnects to freenode. havent gotten around to fixing it since it's not entirely broken ;)
<Belutz> I see :)
<Belutz> elky, do you have a link for that OSDC event?
<elky> http://osdc.com.au
<elky> CFP is until the end of this month
<Belutz> elky, thanks for the info
<elky> Belutz, no problem
<Belutz> elky, we are going to held a World Summit on Open Source next year, I hope you can come :)
<elky> Belutz, that'd be cool. what part of next year?
 * elky hopes for 'mid'
 * e-jat brb ... praying .. 
<Belutz> elky, it's around October, so we could have an Ubuntu 9.10 release party too
<Belutz> but the time is still tentative
<elky> im hoping for Intrepid to be released a day late... so it can be a birthday present for me :Ã
<elky> although, the release will likely happen -au 31st anyway
<lukehasnoname> elky: It is on my birthday
<lukehasnoname> :)
<elky> lukehasnoname, no fair.
 * elky wants a refund :(
<Belutz> hahaha
 * Belutz wish to invite sabdfl to come to the event
<elky> i'd be hurrying to get a date confirmed asap then
<elky> he's a popular fellow for some strange and unbeknown reason
<Belutz> elky, I will
<e-jat> Belutz, dont want to invite us frm MY :)
<Belutz> e-jat, I don't have to invite you, because you have to come
<e-jat> waaaa
<e-jat> ai have too ??
<e-jat> ongkos nya mana ?
<Belutz> e-jat, start saving from now :-)
<ApOgEE-> hi all
<ApOgEE-> hi e-jat
<e-jat> hi back
<Belutz> ApOgEE-, you are late, the meeting is over
<ApOgEE-> i see...
<ApOgEE-> i'm workin
<e-jat> ApOgEE-, :(
<ApOgEE-> it's okay, i'll be here later
<ApOgEE-> just got email from nbliang
 * Belutz did postponed his work for the meeting lol
<e-jat> :)
<ApOgEE-> hehehe...
<e-jat> ApOgEE-, tadi dpt x sms ??
<e-jat> :(
<ApOgEE-> ;) anyway, thanks... i'm goin home now
<ApOgEE-> lol... aku punya henset mana da
<ApOgEE-> owh
<ApOgEE-> ya... ya... e-jat , ada
<ApOgEE-> erk... 6:30 ka?
<e-jat> ApOgEE-, owh .. wheres ya hphone ?
<ApOgEE-> aiseh
<e-jat> 7
<ApOgEE-> i miss placed my hp
<ApOgEE-> due to my extremely busy day
<ApOgEE-> sorry everyone
<e-jat> welcome sid
<sid> oo
<zarul> ok
<zarul> I will leave now
<zarul> congrat to nbliang and e-jat all the best for you guys
<zarul> I will send an email soon
<e-jat> thanks zarul
<zarul> no prob
 * elky notes that one should not be rejected from other regional councils just because they're more convenient. choose the one that best suits your schedule.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces
 * lukehasnoname joined #ubuntu-meeting
<lukehasnoname> hm
<lukehasnoname> a few people missing
<lukehasnoname> @schedule
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 15:00:  Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces
<soren> lukehasnoname: It's not 4 o'clock yet.
<zul> its not quite 15:00 yet
<soren> Er.. Right, 3 o'clock.
<soren> It is now, though.
<lukehasnoname> it's 9:59 CST here
<ivoks> :)
<lukehasnoname> ya
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces
<ivoks> hi all
<nijaba> o/
<Koon> \o
<sommer> o//
<ivoks> 7o_
<lukehasnoname> mathiaz: ping
<GunbladeIV> O.o
<dholbach> I didn't know the server team was such a party crowd :)
<Koon> dholbach: party on !
<dholbach> hehe
<mathiaz> hiay folks
<kraut> hi
<ivoks> an ipv6 guy! :D
<nijaba> mathiaz: !!!
<kraut> ivoks: yep, my NS aren't working correctly ;)
<mathiaz> let's get started
<kraut> is there any agenda online?
<zul> hello
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<lukehasnoname> wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<lukehasnoname> heh
<mathiaz> meh - no Mootbot
<ivoks> damn robots
<kraut> lukehasnoname: thanks
<mathiaz> so today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080617
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ebox and augeas
<mathiaz> so we had some discussion about augeas and ebox
<mathiaz> I sent an email to the ebox developers about this issue
<mathiaz> https://lists.warp.es/pipermail/ebox-devel/2008-June/000376.html
<mathiaz> there has been some discussion about this and the ebox developers seem open to the idea
<mathiaz> they've started to look into using augeas and experiment with it
<mathiaz> on a related note, nxvl has packaged augeas for ubuntu
 * nealmcb cheers
<mathiaz> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=196
<mathiaz> he uploaded it to REVU and is waiting for feedback - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=augeas
<mathiaz> so I think that all I have to report from the ebox front
 * lukehasnoname claps
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] text browser on the server cd
<mathiaz> so I sent a reply to the thread with the official decision from the server meeting
<mathiaz> and the discussion is still going on - also it turned into a broader subject
<mathiaz> but I don't think there anything more to say in this meeting about it.
<lukehasnoname> well
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something wrt to last week meeting ?
<nealmcb> well it seemed to me to relate well to scottk's blueprint
<lukehasnoname> nealmcb: pretty close, ya
<lukehasnoname> One idea is making custom ISOs from a javascript web-app
<mathiaz> nealmcb: right - so I'd suggest to update the blueprint with ideas that emerged during the thread
 * nijaba not sure FAI is the right approach though, if we are talking about the same blueprint
<mathiaz> and continue the discussion on the blueprint
<mathiaz> nijaba: we're talking about this blueprint
<nealmcb> do we have consensus that it should be easy for folks to either install some sort of bare-bones server, or a comfortable more friendly server
<lukehasnoname> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-June/001812.html
<lukehasnoname> nealmcb: Looks like it from the ML
<mathiaz> nealmcb: from what I read from the thread, it seems so
<ivoks> bare-bone server is waporware...
<mathiaz> nealmcb: that may be included in the blueprint rationale
<mathiaz> nealmcb: to explain the reason for doing so
<nealmcb> ivoks: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think it's essential that Ubuntu provide a mechanism for a bare minimal CLI-only system
<kirkland> mathiaz: I say Ubuntu in that it may or may not be the Server Team, but I think it would suit well for our team to provide that sort of install
<ivoks> nealmcb: there will always be people considering it not so bare as it should be; just ignore me
<mathiaz> kirkland: agreed - I like to the approach of installing a bare-system and then having a way to turn it into a specific type of machine
<nealmcb> I think the question is how bare bare is...  there are lots of utilities in unix that are helpful but not essential
<kirkland> mathiaz: right...  and if that's JEOS->real hardware, or Alternate CD, or mini.iso+CLI ...  whatever
<ivoks> there can't be bare bone server; there can be bare bone linux system
<nealmcb> just give 'em busybox :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - but at least we start to have some general idea about where we'd like to head for
<ivoks> so, as i agree with kirkland; this should be ubuntu project, not ubuntu server project
<kirkland> nealmcb: if it can run apt-get and connect to the network, it's minimal enough for me
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<nealmcb> ivoks: in the sense that you can give them a platform for putting their own services on it, with a good kernel etc, you can give them a jeos with hardware support and let them build from there
<soren> kirkland: apt-get? Sheesh! What's wrong with telnet+ar+tar+gzip?
<lukehasnoname> soren: ha
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Relocation of web pages from /var/www/ to /srv/www/ in future releases
<lukehasnoname> Ah, yes
<mathiaz> lukehasnoname: why ?
<soren> *blink*
<kirkland> ???
<soren> Why, oh why?
<lukehasnoname> >_>
<lukehasnoname> ok
<zul> mathiaz: no no no no no
<ivoks> let's all agree - no
<kraut> may i say something to that?
<nealmcb> soren: :)
<sommer> seems like that would cause issues
<lukehasnoname> Simply consider it, though I know chances are slim. But it would conform much better to logic and the FHS if we did
 * kraut would prefer that idea and lean the directory hierachie completly to FHS
<kraut> (FHS: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.pdf)
<lukehasnoname> same with mysql and ftp
<lukehasnoname> I've spoken with some people who agree on principle
<kraut> AOL
<lukehasnoname> it's up to you guys to put it into practice... let me very quickly grab a quote
 * nealmcb always puts server stuff in /srv - what would the impacts be?
<kraut> many people would cry after the change, but after everybody knows the "issue", it would be much better
<lukehasnoname>  /srv contains site-specific data which is served by this system.
<kraut> and FHS is just the best standard i think
<lukehasnoname>  /var contains variable data files. This includes spool directories and files, administrative and logging data, and transient and temporary files.
<lukehasnoname> those are from the FHS
<ivoks> ahm...
<nealmcb> and what do other distros do?
<lukehasnoname> If you read the page kraut linked to, just the two paragraphs on those two dirs, you'll see the logic I'm looking at.
<sommer> nealmcb: /var/www/*
<kraut> nealmcb: redhat and suse does the same
<nijaba> Suse - /srv
<ivoks> 'Therefore, no program should rely on a specific subdirectory structure of /srv existing or data necessarily being stored in /srv.'
<kirkland> nealmcb: RH is /var/www/html
<zul> gentoo is /srv if I remember correctly but they dont count ;)
<kraut> ah, sorry, redhat uses /var/www/html
<kraut> blame on me, i've just watched it out :)
<lukehasnoname> ivoks: That is talking cross -platform, but from an Ubuntu perspective, it would be much more logical to have static web files in its own directory, in a different area from logs
<lukehasnoname> zul:  aw
<kraut> i'm a friend of standards and best practices and FHS is at the moment the best choice.
 * soren points at ivoks
<kraut> i'm out. need to work. just highlight me.
<lukehasnoname> kraut:  thanks.
<soren> kraut: Certainly. And the FHS itself says why it's a bad idea, as ivoks pointed out.
<emgent> hello.
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Server Team | 24 Jun 20:00: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 19:00: QA Team | 26 Jun 00:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 12:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces
<lukehasnoname> brb
<lukehasnoname> think about it
<zul> I dont agree with this at all besides this should really be done in debian
 * sommer agrees with zul
<ivoks> there are some benefits of change, but are they so big to really do it?
<lukehasnoname> zul: I can see your debian argument
 * ivoks agrees with zul and soren 
 * sommer also agrees with ivoks 
<nealmcb> has debian discussed it?
<kraut> FHS: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.pdf - Point: 3.16.1. Purpose
<mathiaz>  /srv seems to be targeted at site customization, ie the local sysadmin is reponsible for figuring out the layout - as the package maintainers, we can default to /var/ww
<soren> Even if this was a good idea (which I don't think it is), it would have to be an *extremely* good idea to justify the horror of maintaining a delta for each and every debian package that ships stuff in /var/Www
<ivoks> i mean... there's a lot of packages, we would have huge delta just cause of location change
<mathiaz> there are a lot of packages that relay on /var/www and also common knowledge
<kraut> soren: so pointing to that, it would be a good idea to use /srv/<protocol>, for example /srv/www
<lukehasnoname> So the consensus is: If it were ever to happen, run it through deb?
<soren> kraut: "that"?
<mathiaz> it's not fundamitally wrong to use /var/www
<kraut> soren: why to use /srv/www instead of /var/www
<lukehasnoname> I'm also the guy who thinks that /usr is redundant
<zul> its just a nightmare to maintain from a developers point of view
<ivoks> lukehasnoname: if debian changes it, i would accept it; i'm not strongly oposed, but i am oposed to big delta for no gain
<kraut> mathiaz: of course not, but /srv/www is more a "best practice"
<soren> kraut: "unspecified and there is currently no consensus on how this should be done"
<lukehasnoname> however, I will run it through Debian if I write up a formal proposal that I think has strong case points.
<kraut> soren: that's business as usual
<soren> And if we start shipping stuff in there, we might *very* well overwrite user's stuff that they already put in there.
<ivoks> kraut: there a tons of tutorials with 'place the website into /var/www'
<kraut> soren: it's more a guide for "best practisces", and /srv/<protocol> sounds reasonable
<mathiaz> lukehasnoname: that seems like the best course of action
<kraut> ivoks: only while years ago somebody choiced that, we need to choice it also in our future, also if there is a better soloution?
<mathiaz> lukehasnoname: we won't change the default location if debian is against it because of the huge delta it would introduce
<lukehasnoname> Alright... I know it's a change, and change is harsh, but bad habits are formed out of archaic standards that never get moved around.
<Brazen> There can also be a transition period with /var/www symlinked to /srv/www (sorry I'm late, don't know if this has been mentioned)
<lukehasnoname> mathiaz: That is the only point I completely agree with here,.
<lukehasnoname> Debian has to be aboard
<soren> kraut: I don't think so, actually. I order stuff in /srv by domain.
<ivoks> kraut: as you can see, we aren't very sure it's better; FHS is very... hm... blur about /srv
<ScottK-palm> Sorry for being late. Did we talk about specs already.
<zul> ScottK-palm: no
<lukehasnoname> no ScottK-palm
<mathiaz> we have to balance these issues (delta, history and common knowledge) with the best practices (which aren't so clear according to the FHS)
<ivoks> i use /srv for smb shares :D
<ScottK-palm> Thanks.
<kraut> ivoks: that's correct, but if i understood correctly, /srv/<protocol> or /srv/<department>/</protocol> would be the best choice
<zul> ivoks: you are weird ;)
<kraut> ivoks: i use /home/kraut/mobiledisk for samba, so should that be a worldwide standard? ;)
<lukehasnoname> Hell with you guys, I'm going to gobolinux. :p That's that then. I'll discuss the possibility with Debian if I feel I have a case, otherwise I'll just manually do it for me.
<kraut> (just kidding)
<nealmcb> kraut: common, yes.  "best"?  ymmv...
<ivoks> kraut: 'such as' - FHS doesn't have a strong opinion on /srv
<ivoks> zul: we all are :D
<ScottK-palm> On /var/www we should definitely follow Debianm
<kirkland> i definitely do not see how this change would improve the Ubuntu experience for anyone--sysadmins or users
<mathiaz> allright - let's move on
<lukehasnoname> yes
<Brazen> definately follow Debian, but strongly encourage Debian to move to /srv
<ivoks> leave it to debian
<nealmcb> ScottK-palm: or perhaps lead them, but be in sync....
<mathiaz> I think we've got some opinions on why not to do it
<kraut> Brazen: *5*
<mathiaz> and why to do it
<mathiaz> next topic
<lukehasnoname> Welcome Brazen. I got slaughtered, heh.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Intrepid spec status
<Brazen> sorry lhnn, I meant to be here
<ScottK-palm> I'm not saying don't try to convince them, but don't diverge over it.
<mathiaz> dendrobates is the last steps of getting things approved
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: which specs are looking for ?
 * ScottK-palm got one comment from dendrobates.  thanks.  how does it look on getting approved?
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I think that the two specs about email are quit straightforward and could be implemented
<ScottK-palm> It's the flavors spec I'm most interested in.
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: right - there has been some discussion about it
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: during this meeting and on the w3m thread
<dendrobates> ScottK-palm: I have been delayed while canoncial worked some things out.  I will be starting the approval process this afternoon.
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: so it seems that there is more work to be done on the spec
<ScottK-palm> Great.
<nealmcb> ScottK-palm: fyi, ï»¿(09:06:48 AM) mathiaz: on a related note, nxvl has packaged augeas for ubuntu
<ScottK-palm> I saw.
<nijaba> ScottK-palm: how would you consider replacing FAI by augeas in your spec (or supplementing it?)
<ScottK-palm> Comments on the flavors spec please. I'll fix it up.
<ScottK-palm> nijaba: one step at a time.
<ScottK-palm> I think with FAI will be hard enough.
<mathiaz> I haven't seen any new specs subscribed
<ivoks> ssl thing?
<mathiaz> so make sure that the specs are in a pending aproval state
<ivoks> maybe i didn't do subscribing right :/
<mathiaz> so that dendrobates can go through the list
<ScottK-palm> Plus one on thay one.
<mathiaz> ivoks: I saw it
<ivoks> ok, thanks,
<ScottK-palm> SSL v2 needs to die.
<mathiaz> anything else on the spec front ?
<ivoks> ScottK-palm: we'll kill it
<ScottK-palm> Not from me.
<ScottK-palm> Anyone?
<mathiaz> let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Iso testing - 8.04.1 and 8.10-alpha1
<mathiaz> we're gearing for 8.04.1 and 8.10-alpha1
<mathiaz> new isos have been created and testing the ubuntu-server isos is welcomed
<mathiaz> slangasek: are there 8.10-alpha1 ubuntu-server isos ready for testing ?
<mathiaz> the iso testing tracker (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/) has 8.04.1 isos
<mathiaz> slangasek: but I don't see any -server isos for intrepid alpha1
<ScottK-palm> Wasn't that delayed?
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: we've started the alpha1 isos now
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: the new kernel has been uploaded
<ScottK-palm> OK.
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: so alpha1 isos are being prepared
<mathiaz> anyway - -server isos for 8.04.1 are already ready
<dendrobates> it will be interesting to see if installing Recommends by default causes us a problem.
<dendrobates> It has already been problematic on my dev vm's
<mathiaz> so iso testing is much appreciated
<nijaba> dendrobates: that's not in 8.04.1 though...
<ScottK-palm> We need some clear policy if Universe recommends need MIR.
<lukehasnoname> dendrobates: I assume packages have been getting worked on to have reasonable recommends?
<zul> nijaba: no it isnt
<mathiaz> we're targeting a release of 8.04.1 next week
<dendrobates> nijaba: the topic includes 8.10 alpha.
<nijaba> dendrobates: my mistake, did not notice
<ScottK-palm> Fortunately Debian has had reccomends by default for some time so they've done a lot of work.
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: right - well it depends on the package
<dendrobates> bzr will install X  :)
<zul> dendrobates: ergh
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I guess dropping to suggest if needed
<ivoks> devscripts installs... well... a lot :D
<lukehasnoname> I had trouble with this recently, since the C# compiler is "recommends" for mono-develop and it didn't get installed
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: other wise, MIR will have to be filled for each recommends
<soren> dendrobates: What?
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: since main has to be installable on its own
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: why would you think MIR should be avoided for Recommends ?
<ScottK-palm> Yes, but install won't fail on missing recommends.
<dendrobates> if it is too large of a problem, we can push the change back in server to intrepid+1, but only if we have too many problems to handle.
<ScottK-palm> Not saying either way.  It's a lot of MIR though.
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: hm - good question then. You may wanna ask about it on ubuntu-devel
<lukehasnoname> MIR?
<lukehasnoname> sudo acronym-define MIR
<ScottK-palm> Maybe someone could make a list for the server packages.
<ScottK-palm> Main Inclusion Report
<kirkland> lukehasnoname: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<lukehasnoname> thanks ScottK-palm kirkland
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: good point. that would give us some real data on the amount of work needed
<ScottK-palm> mathiaz: MIR is more of a Canonical question than Ubuntu.
<ivoks> ScottK-palm: how come?
<ScottK-palm> Because it affects their support contracts.
<nealmcb> well, it affects the support contracts of anyone who supports main
<ivoks> right
<nijaba> ScottK-palm: it affects mainly Ubuntu maintenance commitment
<nijaba> the support contract is a separate thing
<ivoks> the moment we don't include something in main cause it affects somebody's contract, i'll leave :)
<ScottK-palm> :)
<nijaba> if canonical decides to support a subset of main, nothing forbids us to do so
<ScottK-palm> True.
<nijaba> and that is not really something that we should consider here
<nealmcb> nijaba: right
<ivoks> let's eliminate fear of canonical and move on :)
<nijaba> however, maintenance of packages has some impact
<mathiaz> maintenance has an impact on the Ubuntu Security team
<nijaba> and the security team is not the last one impacted
<ScottK-palm> Someone please get a policy and let us peons know.
<nealmcb> moving right along....
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<ScottK-palm> Yep....
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<ivoks> postfix-dovecot is on it's way
<zul> mathiaz: thanks for getting openldap uploaded btw
<soren> ivoks: Cool.
<mathiaz> ivoks: \o/
<mathiaz> zul: np
<soren> ivoks: I'm looking forward to seeing the implementation.
<sommer> yay for openldap :)
<ivoks> soren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 164837 in tasksel "Dovecot SASL for postfix" [Undecided,Invalid]
<ScottK-palm> Do we have people who watch upstream support forums for dovecot,openldap, etc.?
<ivoks> funny... invalid means something completly different in croatian :D
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<kirkland> ivoks: there's an alternate meaning in English too
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
<sommer> mathiaz: sure
<ivoks> +
<ScottK-palm> Ubuntu specific stuff comes up on postfix-users mail list frequently.
 * kirkland is on vacation next week ;-)
<nijaba> +1
<ivoks> ScottK-palm: like?
<ScottK-palm> I think someone should be watching other upstream venus too.
<zul> kirkland: nyeah nyeah nyah :P
<mathiaz> allright - so same place, same time
<ivoks> ScottK-palm: i'm on bacula's dev list
<mathiaz> see ya next week and happy iso-testing
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<ScottK-palm> The latest was a dovecot sasl configuration issue.
<sommer> ScottK-palm: I'm on the openldap dev list :)
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<zul> ScottK-palm: im on several mailing lists
<mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I think most of us are one upstream mailing lists
<ScottK-palm> Postfix chroot by default comes up frequently.
<mathiaz> *on*
<ScottK-palm> Maybe we should check and see if everything is covered.
<ScottK-palm> Maybe a wiki page .....
<nealmcb> ScottK-palm: then we can harvest good addresses to spam postfix lists :)
<nealmcb> ...with...
<ScottK-palm> :)
<nealmcb> not that there aren't much more effective ways.....
<ScottK-palm> Anything else?
 * ScottK-palm guesses not. See you all later.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<popey> @schedule
<ubottu> popey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 18:00: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00: Desktop Team
<popey> eek
<boredandblogging> @now
<ubottu> boredandblogging: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 24 2008, 17:23:21 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<popey> boredandblogging: I will be a bit late for the loco meeting, putting kids to bed
<boredandblogging> popey: thats fine
<boredandblogging> doesn't look like there is much on the agenda
<lukehasnoname> boredandblogging: I thought you were a bot
<boredandblogging> lukehasnoname: i've been called worst things :-P
<slangasek> mathiaz: hum, I see intrepid ubuntu-server dailies building just fine; I haven't been the one posting any of these to the tracker yet for intrepid, I don't know who has done that for the ones listed
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<boredandblogging> juliux: ping
<boredandblogging> effie: ping
<boredandblogging> JanC: ping
<JanC> pong  ã
<boredandblogging> hi JanC
<boredandblogging> JanC: guess when Popey shows up we can start
<JanC> yeah, I saw about the kids  ã
<fetova> hi, i have a little ask...
<fetova> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<fetova> here says "The next meeting is scheduled for [WWW] 25-Jun-2008 at 00:00:00 UTC"
<fetova> and just be sheduled there
<fetova> it's fine?
<popey> moo
<fetova> :P
<JanC> the kids wanted to hear stories about a farm?  ;)
<fetova> lol
<boredandblogging> fetova: should be on the fridge calendar, but its not
<fetova> yeah... i was thinking that...
<fetova> so...
<fetova> that going to be?
<boredandblogging> fetova: I'll add it
<fetova> :P
<fetova> ok, thanks! :D
 * fetova a candidate... and be nervious... :P
<JanC> boredandblogging, popey : we're only the three of us?
<boredandblogging> JanC: looks like it
<popey> looks that way right now
<boredandblogging> that ccHost thing has been on the agenda, but doctormo isn't around to talk about it
<JanC> any other people around who wanted to talk about that?
<JanC> or any people around from the Macedonian team?
<boredandblogging> the only person I've seen mentioning it is doctormo
<boredandblogging> looks like its going to be a short meeting :-P
<popey> #startmeeting
<popey> #endmeeting
<popey> :)
<JanC> arangel (the team contact) seems to be in #ubuntu-mk, will I try to wake him/her?  ;)
<JanC> or do we say that's not our task...?
<boredandblogging> its not our task
<boredandblogging> IMO
<boredandblogging> the agenda says to show up at the meeting in bold letters
<boredandblogging> at the last meeting we did talk about getting the ubuntu-arabic team a mailing list
<boredandblogging> should we just put in a request at rt@ubuntu.com and see what happens?
<popey> need someone from the arabic speaking world to manage it tho
<JanC> I think we can even *approve* this in rt, except nobody told us how  ;)
<boredandblogging> popey: we can probably assign Syntux to do that for now
<boredandblogging> since he seems to be the driver
<popey> ok
<JanC> +1
<popey> +1 )
<popey> AAARGH my eyes!
<popey> :) ah, there they are
<boredandblogging> lol
<boredandblogging> huats had asked about the twinning stuff we talked about
<boredandblogging> do we want to come up with some ways to move that along?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 00:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces
<huats> hi guys
<huats> :)
<boredandblogging> hi huats
<boredandblogging> huats: did you have any ideas on twinning?
<huats> not really so far
<huats> well appart from the fact that it is a good idea
<huats> :)
<popey> :)
<huats> and that it is something that we can help with (speaking with the ubuntu-fr hat on)
<boredandblogging> right, there are definitely some good teams out there
<huats> but I really thing it is something to work on...
<huats> to define a spec and to deal with it all together
<huats> :)
<JanC> do we need a spec for it?
<JanC> I think twinning can be very useful, but how it happens might be very different depending on the case?
<huats> may be to define what with expect of the twinning
<boredandblogging> yes, thats a good idea
<huats> since I sure nobody will have the same idea
<huats> I was thinking of a wiki page for starting
<boredandblogging> huats: did you want to work on it?
<JanC> maybe just start one with your ideas and invite people to add comments?
<huats> boredandblogging: sure
<huats> sorry for the delay
<huats> but we are currently having our regular meeting in the french loco
<huats> and since I am the new leader I am leading the meeting :)
<huats> but I will start that
<huats> and send it on the loco-contacts list as soon as I have something
<juliux> sorry for being late
<juliux> i had to buy my new kitchen
<juliux> boredandblogging: JanC popey sorry
<popey> heh
<popey> no worries, you didn't miss much
<huats> hey juliux
<huats> thanks for inviting us al for testing the great food of the new kitchen :)
<JanC> right, I guess we can say the meeting is closed now?  ;)
<boredandblogging> hah, yeah
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 00:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<arangel> hello
<arangel> ping JanC, i know im late (a few hours) but if you need any more info on that application let me know..
<JanC> arangel: you'll have to come back next time...
<arangel> in a month? :)
<JanC> probably, keep an eye on the agenda
<JanC> and if you can't come, maybe other people from your team can come
<arangel> JanC: well from what i see you hold the meetings every month so probably next month
<arangel> JanC: can you give me some more info about what needs to be done at the meeting?
<JanC> last meeting was 2-3 weeks ago, but I suspect it will be a month this time
<arangel> i mean, you have all the info, we are obviously functioning okay as a team without being an official team.. what else do you guys need (just asking)?
<arangel> JanC: okay, cool, i ll try to make it for next time
<JanC> arangel: you will be asked to give a short intro about your LoCoTeam, then we'll look at the info (or we'll have looked at it before the meeting) and ask questions
<JanC> it's up to you and other team members who attend the meeting to answer them  ;)
<JanC> and if we like what we see, you'll be approved, otherwise we will ask you to come back
<JanC> (this is the procedure in general lines)
<arangel> JanC: okay, thanks for the clarification.
<JanC> I saw the team started working on HOWTOs, probably next meeting you will be able to show us some   ;)
<arangel> JanC: it's more of a passive team, most of the people have full time jobs and usually join when we need to do something (e.g translate/import applications on Launchpad before a release), but there are some HOWTo's being produced on the forums..
<JanC> yeah, I read about the free t-shirts for 4 howtos (or something like that)
<arangel> just an idea to motivate people. :)
<arangel> it's actually down to 1 detailed howto these days :)
<fetova> @now
<ubottu> fetova: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 24 2008, 20:26:06 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<ccm> .
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 19:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 25 Jun 12:00: QA Team | 25 Jun 17:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 05:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 08:00: Desktop Team
<pwnguin> is @schedule chicago
<pwnguin>  @schedule chicago
<pwnguin> @schedule chicago
<ubottu> pwnguin: Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 19:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 25 Jun 12:00: QA Team | 25 Jun 17:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 05:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 08:00: Desktop Team
<pwnguin> victory!
<fetova> @now
<ubottu> fetova: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 24 2008, 21:49:08 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<ggomez91> uhm ya hay gente aqui
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-25
<fetova> @now
<ubottu> fetova: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 24 2008, 23:55:21 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
 * pleia2 waves to fetova 
<fetova> :D
<fetova> hi!
<pleia2> glad you could make it
<fetova> thanks! I hope so
 * chuckf is here
<pleia2> welomce chuckf
<pleia2> ok, americas council folks?
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 25 Jun 12:00: QA Team | 25 Jun 17:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 05:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 08:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<chuckf> how are you doing liz?
<fetova> yup
<pleia2> chuckf: good good :)
<fetova> I'm nervious
<fetova> :P
<pwnguin> its good to be nervous
<pleia2> no need to be, we're all friends here :)
<fetova> lol
<pleia2> effie_jayx?
<fetova> it's true
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  pong?
<pleia2> effie_jayx: meeting time!
<effie_jayx> :D
<fetova> hi effie_jayx ! :D
<effie_jayx> just in time
<fetova> :p
<chuckf> I heard the radio show you were on, good stuff
<pleia2> thank you :)
<pleia2> nixternal: you about?
<fetova> nice :)
<pleia2> encryptz?
<chuckf> this is the right day?
<pleia2> yep
<fetova> I have to thank for people of ubuntu-mx... if don't ask this morning... i don't be here now... :P
<fetova> i was thinking it's the thursday... why? i don't know :P
<chuckf> I had tomorrow stuck in my head for this
<Technoviking> sorry I'm late
<fetova> xD
<vorian> excellent
<pleia2> ok, 4 of us here, that's enough to start :)
<pwnguin> heh
<chuckf> yay
<pleia2> chuckf: go ahead
<chuckf> well I'm Chuck and I started the MD ubuntu loco team
<chuckf> that's my main contribution to the project
<chuckf> I'm around on IRC every so often and help where i can
<chuckf> I've been using Ubuntu for a while now as my main system and been playing with linux for over a decade
<chuckf> not sure what else you need/want to know
<vorian> chuckf: wiki page perhaps?
<pleia2> can you discuss some of the work the MD LoCo has been doing?
<vorian> :)
<chuckf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChuckFrain
<chuckf> sorry, it was linked from the meeting page and I thought you had it
<chuckf> well we've had an inperson meeting every month since being founded last march
<chuckf> we've done two install fests, several gatherings
<chuckf> we've done a presentation to a windows group
<chuckf> a few members have done individual projects using ubuntu
<chuckf> we're gearing up to do a usabitily study with Celeste next month
<pleia2> have a bugjam planned?
<pleia2> oh cool
<chuckf> We have a field trip to the NSA museum and gpg keysigning while there in conjunction with a local lug
<chuckf> bugjam is planned
<pleia2> excellent
<chuckf> we have the space and time set
<pleia2> and you want to get more into bugs? (I see you have done some work with them already)
<chuckf> working on the 'this is what to do with bugs' presentation
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  did i JUST MISS THE MEEINTG?
<effie_jayx> sorry aout the caps
<chuckf> I do QA for a living so yeah, I'll be moving towards that
<chuckf> and getting the bugjam stuff set will help with that
<chuckf> I'll be setting up a 5-a-day for the md team
<chuckf> then we have the SFD stuff in progress as well
<pleia2> nice
<chuckf> We're doing a presentatin with a local lug next month on GPG then our regular meeting for the loco will be a tutoiral sesstion
<chuckf> I think that's about it for the team and what is in progress
<chuckf> Oh and the howard county library where we meet
<chuckf> they've reached out to us and want to see if we can do some cross promotion
<pwnguin> How far do most people travel to make it to meetings?
<chuckf> so I'm thinking of finally finishing a project I started a month or so back for a trifold handout
<chuckf> We've had people travel about 45 minutes
<chuckf> I live about 35 minutes from where the meetings are held, but work in the area
<vorian> happy to give a +1, good work chuckf :)
<chuckf> thanks!
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<pleia2> good job chuckf, +1
<pleia2> effie_jayx?
<chuckf> our library is also featured in the example docs on the Hardy release:)
<pleia2> nice
<pwnguin> neat
<effie_jayx> +1
<pleia2> woo, congrats chuckf! :)
<vorian> :)
<chuckf> yay!
<vorian> welcome chuckf :)
 * chuckf basks in the approval!
<fetova> congrats chuckf :D
<pleia2> fetova: you're up, go ahead :)
<chuckf> thanks all!
<fetova> help!!! xD
<fetova> here im go :P
<fetova> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FedericoTorres
<fetova> my wikipage
<fetova> I'm the team leader an contact of ubuntu-mx
<fetova> a moderator on #ubuntu-es
<fetova> and co-admin the cupie project
<fetova> with meisok
<fetova> mmm...
<fetova> i don't know what to say :P
<fetova> better ask :)
<pleia2> can you discuss some of the work the Mexican LoCo has been doing? and has planned?
<fetova> well...
<fetova> we have a own forum, a channel irc, mailing list...
<fetova> we give support
<fetova> we give two talks on the flisol
<fetova> and the consol
<fetova> a free software local conference
<keffie_jayx> I can attest of his work in the mexican team he is a very  integrating factor in the latin american community
<vorian> any plans on fixing the dead links on the Mexican LoCo wiki?
<fetova> we are beggining a mentoring program
<fetova> vorian, lol
<fetova> we have to fill it
<vorian> excellent!
<fetova> we are planning to be approved
<fetova> this sunday are ameeting
<marianom> Hi Mariano here, loco team contact for Argentina and ubuntu member since september last year: just wanna say to you guys I know fetova and he works hard not only with the mexican team but he was a great help in Argentina Team too since the beginning
<fetova> and one point it's the approving the LoCO
<pleia2> marianom: great to know!
<fetova> marianom, :D
<pleia2> fetova: aside from Argentina, have you mentored other teams as well?
<vorian> thanks for that marianom. fetova, any other supporters here?
<fetova> pleia2, i begin there :P
<fetova> they give me the support to get in on the mexican community
<fetova> beuno, marianom, L1pe, some of them
<pleia2> fetova: as far as your future goals are concerned, have you made any steps toward starting them?
<fetova> yes
<fetova> the mexican LoCo... that i comment it before
<fetova> the ubuntu distributor... i can now by giving the cd's that i ask for shipping
<keffie_jayx> How are you promoting more participation fetova?
<fetova> for the ubuntu on my school...
<fetova> talking with the persons who I know and annimate them
<fetova> giving a nice place to share
<fetova> as good as i can
<vorian> +1 from me based on solid loco leadership
<pleia2> good job fetova, great loco work and mentoring, +1
<fetova> thanks vorian :D
<fetova> pleia2, :D
<Technoviking> +1 here
<keffie_jayx> +1
<pleia2> congrats fetova!
<vorian> congratulations and welcome fetova :)
<fetova> Technoviking, keffie_jayx :D
<fetova> :D
<chuckf> yay fetova!!
<marianom> fetova: \0/
 * fetova scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<meisok> fetova: enhorabuena !! ;)
<pleia2> SEJeff doesn't appear to be here
<pwnguin> It's a bit unfair to ask people to ensure they can make it to a meeting before adding themselves to the agenda, and then only giving them three days notice (beneath a sign saying "Beware of Leopard"). That might explain SEJeff's dissapparance :(
<fetova> gracias marianom y meisok :D
<pleia2> pwnguin: we don't require attendence
<pleia2> pwnguin: if you miss, you just get the next meeting :)
<pleia2> anyway
<pleia2> pwnguin: you're up!
<pwnguin> sure
<pwnguin> My name is Justin Dugger and I've been helping Ubuntu for two years now.
<pwnguin> I participate in testing, xorg bug triage and the toshiba-tablet team. I also keep a blog on technical subjects related to Ubuntu. My wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JustinDugger) and LP page (https://edge.launchpad.net/~jldugger) have a detail on my contributions to Ubuntu.
<Technoviking> pwnguin: I change the wiki 4 days ago I believe
<pwnguin> I just edited my wiki page at :25 after to fix some LP links, so you might want to reload.
<pwnguin> Technoviking: sure, but when I ask people to appear on my behalf, it's a bit nerve wrecking to tell them to reschedule
<pwnguin> also, though I doubt it counts for much, I am the author of #22 on bash.org --> http://bash.org/?22
<pwnguin> :)
<pwnguin> I've asked Bryce Herrington to speak on behalf of my contributions.
<pwnguin> bryce?
<pleia2> pwnguin: what's your launchpad link?
<pwnguin> doh
<pwnguin> I've asked Bryce Herrington to speak on behalf of my contributions.
<pwnguin> arg paste
<pwnguin> https://launchpad.net/~jldugger
 * pwnguin shakes fist at LP url redirection
<bryce> hi
<bryce> pwnguin has been a very valuable participant in the ubuntu-x team, and I would heartily recommend him for membership
<pleia2> bryce: ubuntu-x ?
<bryce> pleia2: the Xorg maintenance community
<pleia2> gotcha
<bryce> pwnguin helps with bug triage, answering user questions, and so on, which helps a great deal
<pwnguin> i also fire up gdb on occasion
<pwnguin> but i find that the xorg guys know more about the byzantine depths of xkb than i problably ever will
<pleia2> pwnguin: your wiki page doesn't list any future plans, what do you have in store?
<pwnguin> well, in the future I'd like to continue my work with toshiba-tablet
<pwnguin> as well as bug triage
<pwnguin> tablet and wacom support is critical to getting more artists involved with ubuntu, I think
<pleia2> pwnguin: how long have you been working with ubuntu?
<pwnguin> lets see, i think the laptop testing page i maintain was started in october of 2006
<pwnguin> reporting bugs, probably a bit older
<pwnguin> my first ubuntu install was in 2005
<pwnguin> i used debian before that :)
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> ever contribute to debian?
<pwnguin> on occasion
<pwnguin> i subscribe to the FingerForce debian team
<pwnguin> but since i dont have a debian install, i dont think its wise to send bug reports to them
<pleia2> well keep up the good work, it's great to see someone so active it bugs with an intention of doing more :) +1 from me
<vorian> I'm happy to +1, based on great feedback and good work
<pwnguin> i did try sending some patches to the debian thinkfinger maintainer, but he was a bit less ... pragmatic
<pleia2> pwnguin: heh, yeah, I know how that can go
<keffie_jayx> +1 great bug and x work
<Technoviking> +1 from me
<pleia2> congrats pwnguin!
<vorian> welcome pwnguin :)
<pwnguin> thank you everyone. If I might make a request to the council, going forward can we please establish a 7 day head notice on meetings?
<vorian> hmm
<vorian> -1
<chuckf> yay pwnguin!!!!
<pwnguin> heh
<fetova> :O
<pleia2> pwnguin: we'll consider it, given people's schedules
<pleia2> pwnguin: thanks for your suggestion
<vorian> :)
<pleia2> ok, meeting over
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<chuckf> or recommend subscribing to the page to keep up with changes
<pwnguin> pleia2: sure. i like to see teams flow smoothly :)
<vorian> pwnguin: sorry if it was an inconvenience for you to get 4 of us together on one night.
<pwnguin> well hey, im not inconvinenced
<vorian> then why complain?
<vorian> who's next? :)
<pleia2> that's it!
<pwnguin> but you know, i dont like telling core devs to show up and waste time. its not about me, but about improving how ubuntu works :P
<Technoviking> night all
<pwnguin> just a suggestion
<pleia2> pwnguin: thanks :)
 * pleia2 remebers what a chore it was when she got approved
<pleia2> and then they almost stopped the meeting right before me! :O
<pwnguin> hahgah
<pleia2> it wasn't funny! I was so nervous!
<pleia2> hehe
 * chuckf missed several meetings that were scheduled the same day
<pleia2> anyway, off to dinner
<pleia2> thanks everyone, congrats again chuckf, fetova and pwnguin!
<pwnguin> i just figured since it's a new process, feedback was welcome
<fetova> :D
<pleia2> pwnguin: it is, thanks :)
<pwnguin> i guess i was wrong (vorian :P)
<chuckf> thanks liz
<fetova> thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<fetova> :D
 * fetova wants to flood with ":D"
<fetova> :p
<chuckf> heh
<fetova> chuckf, :D
<pwnguin> again, thanks everyone and good luck in the future!
<fetova> same!!!!!!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
<ApOgEE-> greetings all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
 * pedro_ waves
<ara> :-)
<ara> hey
<pedro_> hi heno, ara
<heno> hey ara, pedro_ :)
<pedro_> ehhe
<heno> bdmurray, sbeattie ping?
<davmor2> evening everybody :)
<bdmurray> Hello all
<sbeattie> Hey
<heno> I've pinged cgregan
<heno> let's give him a minute
<Flare183> There his is
<pedro_> oops split
<Flare183> pedro_: yeap
<ara> oops
<Flare183> he*
<heno> ok, we can start
<heno> #startmeeting
<pedro_> no bot?
 * davmor2 hit's bot with big hammer
<heno> [TOPIC]: Outstanding items from last meeting.
<heno> always a good agenda item - but we should also start keeping a list :)
 * stgraber waves
<Flare183> another netsplit
<heno> "In a few minutes I'm going to be rebooting one of our main us hubs. This will mean some splitting, but things should come back together rather quickly. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!" -- apparently
<ogra> it was announced
<heno> let's take 5 minutes to read the log from the last meeting in the meantime
<davmor2> yay bot is back and everyone else too :)
<heno> ok, cool
<heno> let's try to continue
<heno> #startmeeting
<nickellery> @schedule Vancouver
<ubottu> nickellery: Schedule for America/Vancouver: Current meeting: QA Team | 25 Jun 15:00: Platform Team | 26 Jun 03:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 06:00: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 08:00:  Server Team | 02 Jul 10:00: QA Team
<heno> not quite :)
 * pedro_ kicks the bot
<heno> #startmeeting
<heno> ...
<stgraber> the meeting bot isn't here
<heno> topic: Outstanding items from last meeting
<heno> meh :(
<heno> I don't see any major outstanding issues
<davmor2> see pedro_ that's what happens when you kick the bot :)
<heno> mgunes has posted in the forums about SRU testing
<pedro_> davmor2: haha, see it works better than your hammer :-P
<heno> topic: New starter Ara Pulido
<heno> everyone welcome ara
<davmor2> welcome Ara
 * cgregan waves to Ara
<pedro_> welcome ara!
 * pedro_ hugs ara
<heno> who will be working on desktop test automation
<ara> thanks
<stgraber> welcome ara
<sbeattie> welcome ara! \o/
<heno> I'm sure we'l see interesting testing projects evolving in the next few weeks and months
<heno> We are focusing on LTSP scripting this time
<ara> LDTP?
 * ogra listens up
<stgraber> s/LTSP/LDTP/ imho
<heno> contributions are also very welcome once we have a few basics in place
<ogra> :)
<davmor2> I was beginning to wonder :)
<stgraber> even if having more coders for LTSP would be interesting too :)
<heno> ara, stgraber: just testing :)
<ogra> yea :)
<ara> haha
<heno> btw, stgraber is our local LTSP expert along with ogra
<heno> moving on
<heno> topic: 8.04.1 status
<heno> according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/sru_todo.html we are down to 21 targets now
<heno> only one appears to be hw-specific, which is good
<sbeattie> nss and nspr are actually false positives, I believe.
<heno> ok
<davmor2> heno: wubi is getting some love too so hopefully that should work better for .1
<ara> when is the point release?
<pedro_> middle of july?
<heno> sbeattie: you want to give a 2-line update from your POV?
<sbeattie> davmor2: yeah, thanks for Wubi testing!
<heno> I think we are aiming for early July
<davmor2> sbeattie: It's what I do :)
<sbeattie> Summary: SRU validation seems to be going along pretty well, made good progress with SRU Bug Hud day yesterday.
<sbeattie> Thanks to all who participated!
<pedro_> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<heno> I don't think we have committed to a date, but before the sprint AFAIU
<sbeattie> July 3rd was the last date I heard.
<heno> right
<sbeattie> Which is coming up fast.
<heno> that's the target
<pedro_> we have a different one on the QA Schedule btw
<heno> we'll see how that goes
<sbeattie> right.
<heno> oh?
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IntrepidSchedule <- points to be July 10th
<heno> As the QA team we should have a clear view on whether it's ready
<davmor2> it ain't ready ;)
<sbeattie> pedro_: ah, yeah, the alpha2 and 8.04.1 switching weeks with other has not been reflected there.
<heno> and if we feel elements are not we should advocate a) a delay or b) they some updates are left out
<davmor2> I think the 10th will be more realistic
<bdmurray> cjwatson swapped alpha 2 and 8.04.1 on the 18th
<bdmurray> I'll subscribe to main release schedule and update the QA team one as necessary
<heno> it would of course be good if the process were not blocked on us at that point ;)
<davmor2> I won't be here blame sbeattie ;)
<heno> thanks sbeattie for the summary
<heno> next
<heno> topic: Evaluation and Future of Hug Days
<heno> the activity seems to have slowed down a bit the past few weeks
<sbeattie> summer lull?
<pedro_> sbeattie: seems so
<heno> which I think is mainly due to it being summer
<heno> so I suggest we scale back to one day for now
<heno> when should we aim to resume 2? just after the bug jam or Septemberish?
<ara> bug jam?
<bdmurray> I think after the global bug jam would be good
<heno> Feature Freeze is Aug 28th
<davmor2> After feature freeze is good less major changes
<heno> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam
<pedro_> yup that's a good date
<ara> ta
<heno> pedro_: which? bj or ff?
<stgraber> after FF sounds good
<pedro_> heno: after FF
<heno> ok let's aim for after FF - with the option of picking it up after the BJ if there is a surge in interest
<heno> any other topics today?
<bdmurray> which day for the one a week bug day?
<pedro_> not from me
<heno> I would prefer Thursdays
<ara> can anyone point me to the wiki page where bug days have their schedule?
<heno> as I have a ton of meetings on tuesdays
<heno> but I'm not fussed
<pedro_> yeah i tend to be a bit swamped the first days of the week (lot of bugmail to read)
<pedro_> Thursdays are also good for me
<bdmurray> Thursday is fine with me
<sbeattie> works for me.
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay is the main bug day page, but it has no schedule
<cgregan> Between 12 and 3 I am booked solid, but other than that
<heno> it has tended to be every tues and thurs
<cgregan> EST
<davmor2> the wiki has been updated for mobile-builder
<heno> it has the next day listed though
<heno> but is out of date :)
<pedro_> do you think it would be a good idea to start asking for help on setting up the hug day page at the bugsquad list or in the bugcontrol one?
<pedro_> for having more participation from the community
<heno> so a QA team meeting page type schedule would be good on that page
<pedro_> otherwise some of them didn't even noticed that there's a hug day
<ara> yes, that would be helpful
<bdmurray> I've asked in the past, I think the last sprint, and no one was interested
<heno> should we just ask a few individuals directly?
<cgregan> davmor2: :-)
<davmor2> cgregan: KVM build mean 1 line to build :)
<pedro_> heno: yep that would work better, we have a few core members that we can ask for help
<davmor2> add the ppa to the repos and then add the app:)
<heno> pedro_: will you take an action to try that?
<pedro_> heno: sure, i'll do it
<heno> ok great
<heno> any further topics?
<bdmurray> I've been working on the wiki a fair bit and my .moin_aliases file is quite long now.  Would anyone be interested in sharing these somehow?
<heno> bdmurray: what does that do exactly?
<bdmurray> a moin_aliases file is just shortcuts to wiki pages
 * heno should probably know having helped set up the Ubuntu wiki
<sbeattie> that'd be useful.
<bdmurray> so you can use editmoin debug-usplash
<heno> ok
<bdmurray> and it'll expand to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUsplash
<ara> that is helpful :-)
<sbeattie> bdmurray: though perhaps you're the biggest/sole user of ~/.moin_aliases, apparentl7.
<heno> should we set up a bzr branch?
<davmor2> bdmurray: I didn't get chance to play with any images in the end :(
<bdmurray> It seems silly for one file but the best idea at the same time
<sbeattie> well, should we have a bzr branch for generally useful qa things?
<sbeattie> (not sure what else should go in that yet)
<bdmurray> leann and I set one up for canonical specific things, however a general bugsquad one might be good too
<heno> that could include the vim bug day script too
<bdmurray> Throwing in the bugs mailing list scripts might be good too
<davmor2> sbeattie: it could include the script for dl-ing the isos
<davmor2> too
<heno> and greasemonkey scripts perhaps
<sbeattie> davmor2: excellent suggestion!
<ara> cool, that would save a lot of time to new starters ;-)
<heno> oh, lots of good ideas :)
<bdmurray> the greasemonkey scripts are a separate project, which I really think is best
<bdmurray> As thought might want to be used by other launchpad projects
<heno> bdmurray: can you organise this?
<ara> i can imagine myself trying to do something and after a couple of hours someone saying "but we already have a script for that"
<ara> :D
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<davmor2> ara: we did say just ask ;)
<heno> perhaps we should also set up an ubuntu-qa LP team again so devs can find us
<sbeattie> Oh, as an aside, I should mention laserjock/Jordan Mantha and I have set up an sru-tools project: https://launchpad.net/sru-tools
<heno> I was in a motu sru meeting where several people claimed that Ubuntu QA did not exist because we were not in LP :)
<sbeattie> heno: agreed, or rename canonical-qa LP team
<heno> sbeattie: canonical-qa has a separate function
<heno> relating to bugs escalated from support etc
<davmor2> heno: there you go the second tier to iso testers :)
<sbeattie> heno: Oh! Makes sense. And now I understand the bugs I get being subscribed to that team. :-)
<bdmurray> lol
<heno> should we make it hierarchical or just an umbrella team?
<pedro_> haha
<heno> heh
<pedro_> an umbrella is ok
<heno> so people in bug control and testing are members - bugsquad too?
<pedro_> yup, they're part of the ubuntu-qa ;-)
<bdmurray> Hrm, bug control would be every developer then
<heno> hm, so perhaps only bugsquad?
<ara> i am not in any of those teams yet
<bdmurray> heno: what is the point of the team again?
<heno> bdmurray: to raise our visibility as a QA team in he dev community and host common tools like that bzr branch
<persia> I'd suggest including bugcontrol won't hurt.  It might be nice if more developers were reminded that they are also QA.
<davmor2> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Isoscript
<davmor2> for the dl script :)
<ara> :-) thanks davmor2
<sbeattie> Perhaps related, are there other things we should be doing to raise our visibility and encourage more community participation?
<heno> will this cause lots of spam if people start assigning/subscribing bugs to ubuntu-qa?
<heno> which will happen
<persia> Only if there isn't also an ubuntu-qa mailing list.
<heno> which we don't really want to flood with bugmail
<persia> For Ubuntu Universe Sponsors we created a mailing list, with optional subscription.  Those members who like bugmail subscribe, and those that consider it spam don't.
<persia> Could be ubuntu-qa-bugs...
<bdmurray> persia: is than an lp mailing list or not?
<persia> bdmurray: For UUS, it's an ubuntuwire list (UUS predates LP MLs)
<heno> though that makes it seem like we _want_ people assigning/subscribing bugs to ubuntu-qa :)
<heno> and we haven't defined the purpose of that yet
<persia> It will happen anyway (currently happens for MOTU), but can be discouraged.  Active people will learn, and the rest will go away.
<heno> cgregan: you've set up a bunch of LP teams recently; could you look into possible structures for this and their implications?
<heno> then we can consider a few options at the next meeting (and whether we need this at all)
<cgregan> heno: sure
<heno> thanks
<persia> I think it has PR value, even if it's essentially useless for coordination.
<heno> could well be
<heno> #endmeeting
<heno> thanks everyone
<pedro_> thanks!
<sbeattie> thanks!
<ara> thanks!
<davmor2> thanks back :)
<stgraber> thanks!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<calc> hello
<TheMuso> greetings folks.
<bryce> heya all
<liw> blessings be on this channel
<james_w> hi all
<cjwatson> dia duit
 * ogra waves
<evand> hi
 * asac arrives 
<asac> victory ;)
<cjwatson> so, sorry for the lack of agenda this week; I have been rather busy with belated reviews and such, as some of you have noticed ;-)
<slangasek> :)
<calc> heh
<james_w> I wonder if doko will be late due to celebrating his goal.
<asac> his goal?
<cjwatson> I haven't normally done a roll-call for these meetings, but I thought it might be worth asking if there are other folks around here who want to register themselves as present for the platform meeting; this isn't intended to be a closed meeting
<doko> heh, stopped the turks before the gates of Vienna, again ;-)
<james_w> yeah, M. Klose scored the second.
 * asac hugs doko
<asac> hehe
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: around?
<doko> don't expect me to be sober ...
<asac> doko: i know what you mean ;)
 * ajmitch is present but lurking at work :)
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: here
<cjwatson> ok, great
<doko> so it looks like we won't finish the merges in time
<cjwatson> that was in fact the only thing I had to discuss
 * ogra cant look at hotkey-setup anymore but will finish it tomorrow
<cjwatson> there are 49 remaining main merges
<liw> I have been very bad at helping with merges :(
<slangasek> I have been very bad at sponsoring the merges liw helped with
<cjwatson> many of which are "assigned" to people here
<liw> cjwatson, subtract procps
<bryce> slangasek mentioned that we're in freeze for alpha1 now, though?
<cjwatson> noted
 * TheMuso is almost done with the initramfs-tools merge. Should have it done by the end of this morning my time.
<cjwatson> slangasek: we probably ought to resolve that conflict ...
<ogra> if i ever get over th ehotkey stuff i'll grab some more tomorrow
<cjwatson> is there anyone here who has merges assigned to them that they feel they cannot do in time?
<cjwatson> if not, we can parcel out the others
<liw> I have nothing assigned to me, I've looked at low-hanging fruit today (devscripts and debiantuils seems simple)
<asac> cjwatson: i wont do enigmail now as i have to do the latest upstream releases in debian first.
<liw> I'll work on those and more tomorrow, assuming there's still time
<slangasek> if folks can squeeze in some ISO testing today, we ought to be able to get alpha1 out the door in < 24h and let the merges through right behind?
<cjwatson> asac: how about epiphany-extensions and network-manager-applet?
<slangasek> (for whatever value of "today" fits your timezone)
<james_w> lvm2 is still on my plate, no reaction from the maintainer, so I guess it's time to package the new upstream directly.
<calc> slangasek: is vmware testing useful, or do you want mostly bare metal?
<asac> nm-applet will go for 0.7 so i skipped it
<cjwatson> slangasek: a bit of a sprint, but I suppose that's theoretically doable
<slangasek> calc: vmware is perfectly fine
<doko> hmm, didn't notice the alpha freeze; please don't accept gpm from NEW before alpha1 is released
<calc> slangasek: ok i'll take a look at some after dinner tonight, setting up downloads now :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't think we wanted to freeze in Launchpad for the milestone, though?
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, we know we're not releasing desktop images, and I think we can also forego DVDs, which cuts our image set by more than 50%
<asac> cjwatson: ephy + extensions will receive multiple upstream uploads this release too. i can do them, though i dont think its really worthwhile
<cjwatson> asac: ok
<slangasek> cjwatson: the "freeze" I mentioned to bryce was solely that I asked him kindly to not make xserver-xorg-video-all depend on any more new packages in universe ;)
<liw> ISO testing... I know how to do that!
<cjwatson> slangasek: right, just that without that we simply get to assume that merges will be safe or that the images we already have will be OK; we can't really do a "let merges through" process without a technical freeze
<asac> slangasek: i looked at ncurses. would you mind if i take that merge from you?
<cjwatson> now, that may actually be OK
<slangasek> cjwatson: right; I didn't mean to imply a technical freeze actually
<liw> so, should we do merges, ISO testing, or both? (/me is a Developer with a Very Small Brain)
<slangasek> asac: you're welcome to it
<slangasek> liw: you're well-positioned to do ISO testing, as I recall :)
<liw> slangasek, yes
<cjwatson> speaking personally, I plan to do both
<calc> also if anyone can help bryce and I track down 185311 feel free :)
<asac> bug 185311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 185311 in libxcb "hardy, locking assertion failure, xorg/libsdl" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185311
<TheMuso> slangasek: I think we can safely say studio is nowhere nearly ready for any alpha, due to linux-rt breakaage on our disks.
<calc> i have tried to reproduce the bug on both of my machines and in vmware and can't
<cjwatson> ISO testing (particularly alternate/server) is feasible to do in the background
<cjwatson> particularly if you're doing it in qemu as I will be, since kvm is busted for intrepid right now ... takes forever
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Busted on the guest side, or the host side?
<slangasek> TheMuso: ok; I'd be happy to work with you guys to get studio straightened out if you thought it was possible, but I'll also admit I'm relieved if I don't have to for this round
<cjwatson> TheMuso: guest side, my host hasn't changed
<bryce> calc: I have a package pending to just revert the XCB support from libx11; I'm wondering if that may let us work around the issue sufficiently?
 * ogra will do the alternate ltsp tests as usual
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Damn, I was going to use it also. :)
<calc> the openoffice.org related part of the bug seems to happen for a user on their main account but if they create a new one it doesn't happen in that one
<cjwatson> slangasek: I think we should go for Ubuntu plus whatever else happens to work, and not worry about stragglers
<calc> bryce: hopefully :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: <nod>
<cjwatson> it's only alpha-1, and since desktop CDs won't work anyway ...
<TheMuso> slangasek: Well its to do with the big kernel shakeup thats going on, I'm not sure where RT fits into it yet.
<calc> bryce: the bug is really strange from what i have been able to confirm from people who see it happen
<slangasek> TheMuso: ah, if it's that level of breakage, then yeah
<bryce> calc, it'd be really helpful if we could get someone to test the libx11 packages I did
<cjwatson> so, re merges, I'm going to assume that desktop team members will get theirs sorted (and check up on that tomorrow)
<cjwatson> I'm also going to ask StevenK about his
<bryce> calc, http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libx11/
<calc> bryce: i think there was mention of someone testing some packages plus intrepid in LP
<calc> bryce: not sure if they are the new ones
<ogra> cjwatson, i pinged him already but he ignored me being busy with image builder stuff  :)
<calc> bryce: maybe try contacting the person who did the full set of tests to try the new debs
<bryce> calc, ok we can discuss more on #ubuntu-devel post-meeting
<ogra> same for agolivera
<calc> bryce: ok
<cjwatson> that leaves: libselinux, libsepol, backuppc, cdrkit, emacs22, git-core, gnome-desktop-sharp2, gnome-user-docs, gnumeric, goffice, kernel-wedge, libx86, lockfile-progs, lynx, mono-tools, netcat-openbsd, openoffice.org-en-au, multipath-tools
<ogra> MacSlow seemsd to be on gnumeric and goffice
<cjwatson> kernel-wedge has slipped cycles before and it won't kill us for it to happen again; it's more important for the kernel guys to have a vague idea of what's going on
<asac> cjwatson: i
<ogra> but i'm not sure if he gave up
<cjwatson> emacs22 is packaged independently, as I recall
<asac> looked at git-core, it fails in some git-svn tests
<asac> didnt have time to look
<doko> I'll look at cdrkit
<liw> cjwatson, I've filed a sync request for lockfile-progs
<doko> and lynx
<cjwatson> doko: you're off tomorrow, aren't you?
<asac> anyone knows about problems of perl svn bindings?
<cjwatson> liw: I don't see it - is it waiting for sponsorship?
<doko> cjwatson: I'm leaving at 8am, there's plenty of time =)
<slangasek> lockfile-progs appears to be awaiting sponsorship
<slangasek> from me
<liw> cjwatson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lockfile-progs/+bug/243075
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243075 in lockfile-progs "Please sync lockfile-progs 0.1.11-0.1 from Debian sid main" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> liw: did you see bug 242086?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242086 in lockfile-progs "Merge of lockfile-progs 0.1.11-0.1 as lockfile-progs 0.1.11ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242086
<doko> however I still don't understand the scrollkeeper build failure
<cjwatson> seemed to suggest it needed a new change in order to build
<liw> cjwatson, hm, no, I didn't
<cjwatson> gnome-desktop-sharp2 and gnome-user-docs should be left to the desktop guys, and might fall under the gnome exception?
<liw> my launchpad search-fu needs updating
<slangasek> liw, cjwatson: I'll take care of resolving lockfile-progs then
<liw> slangasek, cool
<james_w> I can take netcat-openbsd if no-one else has done it, seem straightforward.
<slangasek> I wonder if ScottK was interested in taking care of the selinux merges?
<ogra> he's in -server atm
<cjwatson> calc: can you sort out openoffice.org-en-au?
<calc> cjwatson: yea will take a look at it and the other ooo packages
<cjwatson> that leaves: backuppc, libx86, mono-tools, multipath-tools
<cjwatson> I'll take libx86
<calc> cjwatson: iirc i still need to sort out some of the other language related packages for their dependencies
<ogra> slangasek, <ScottK> ogra: If I do it I only promise a minimal diff from Debian.  I don't know enough to get them working.
<calc> eg not properly falling back to language-support-*
<cjwatson> calc: yes, you do
<cjwatson> (I poked a bug about that earlier today IIRC)
<calc> ah ok
<asac> cjwatson: unless something unexpected happens with regards to this weeks ffox updates, i can take mono-tools
<slangasek> ogra: coreutils links against them, I think he'll succeed in getting them "working" ;)
<james_w> I can take backuppc as well I think
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> I'll bug soren about multipath-tools and his other merges
<calc> i'm not sure if it is just my connection but cdimage.u.c seems really slow right now
<james_w> mono-tools too
<asac> james_w: ok go ahead then with mono-tools ;)
<cjwatson> calc: it is often thus, yes, I'm afraid
<cjwatson> one of the things on my list is to talk with elmo about breaking up cdimage
<calc> ok
<calc> i'm only getting ~ 32KB/s right now, so i am not sure if it will be done in time to do iso testing today
<cjwatson> I can imagine hacks such as fetching it DC-locally to chinstrap and scping from there
<cjwatson> although I couldn't possibly recommend that
<calc> lol
<cjwatson> (this is on the assumption that DC-local will be faster ...)
<calc> a lot faster
<liw> torrents would sort-of be an automatic solution...
<doko> calc: we need to come up with a list of OOo issues that we would see being addressed with the next upstream. next week there's the next ESC meeting
<cjwatson> we ought to have torrents for those already?
<calc> of course scp from chinstrap is also slow :-\]
<cjwatson> doko, calc: can you two set up a phone call to talk about that, maybe?
<calc> doko: ok will do, what day is the meeting?
<liw> cjwatson, I thought cdimage images didn't have torrent, just rsync and http
<cjwatson> liw: they *ought* to have torrent but sometimes it requires IS to go and kick the tracker
<cjwatson> err, maybe I'm on crack / out of date
<slangasek> mm, we had discussed turning off torrents for dailies because they don't seed fast enough to be a win
<calc> ah my connection to chinstrap sped up finally
<slangasek> so that might be done
<cjwatson> revno: 669
<cjwatson> committer: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek@canonical.com>
<cjwatson> branch nick: cdimage.vorlon
<cjwatson> timestamp: Thu 2008-03-20 02:05:00 -0700
<cjwatson> message:
<cjwatson>   Drop torrents for daily images; the window when these are usable does not
<cjwatson>   warrant the load on the torrent tracker.
<liw> that's not what I heard in the qa team, but my memory has more holes than swiss cheese, so...
<cjwatson> yeah, you're right, I had forgotten
<cjwatson> unfortunately the torrent tracker is a big pile of pants
<doko> cjwatson, calc: yes, that should work; we should do that on Fri around 16:00 UTC, if that doesn't work, maybe on Sat
<TheMuso> I'll always favour rsync over other methods for daily images anyway.
<TheMuso> Personally at least.
<calc> doko: ok
<cjwatson> jigdo is also workable given a more-local mirror, especially for alternate/server images
<cjwatson> in fact, for this case, it might be the best answer
<ogra> TheMuso, ++
<cjwatson> jigdo-lite http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/intrepid-alternate-i386.jigdo and give it the path to a nearby mirror when requested
<calc> or filling up chinstrap's disk works as well ;-)
<liw> . o O (I wrote a (configurable) script to keep dailies updated from cdimage.u.c, that should perhaps be taught to do jigdo)
<TheMuso> liw: So did I, although mine is a little more hard-coded.
 * cjwatson keeps a local mirror, so jigdo is especially efficient
<cjwatson> but it can't work for desktop CDs
<TheMuso> One day I'll make it more flexible. :p
<ogra> or take the CDrom you grabbed at UDS, dd it to an iso file and rsync on top of that
<liw> TheMuso, mine should be generic and usable for everyone, sbeattie maintains it now
 * calc needs to free another 100gb or so he can create a local mirror
 * TheMuso has recently set up a local mirror, so of course jigdo makes sense.
<calc> TheMuso: how much space does your mirror take?
<TheMuso> calc: One second.
<liw> calc, mine takes 184 GiB
<calc> ah ok i should have enough room soon :)
<TheMuso> calc: 123GB, and thats source, i386, amd64, and PowerPC.
<liw> that's with dapper, feisty, gutsy, hardy, and intrepid; source, i386, amd64
<asac> TheMuso: just a snapshot or even with some history?
<TheMuso> calc: 87GB for amd64/i386/source.
<calc> ok
<TheMuso> calc: Pretty much the latest of whats on archive.ubuntu.com
<TheMuso> Oh yeah and mine is hardy and intrepid.
<TheMuso> with -proposed and -updates.
<TheMuso> and -security
<cjwatson> mine is 27GB, source/i386/amd64, hardy/intrepid, main/restricted
<cjwatson> universe/multiverse aren't needed for Ubuntu CDs so I find this a good compromise
<TheMuso> Ah, I also have universe.
<slangasek> (jigdoing DVD images is fun)
<slangasek> (especially DVD images with a 1.1GB livefs on them)
<TheMuso> slagnheh
<TheMuso> slangasek: heh
<liw> how rsyncable is the livefs image?
<cjwatson> doko: meeting> that should be fine for me, subject to a phone call David wants me and quite possibly you in (will follow up separately)
<ogra> slangasek, cat'ing a desktop CD on top of alternate and then rsyncing the DVD on top saves a lot i found
<cjwatson> liw: quite reasonably
<slangasek> ogra: er... did you find this to be true before, or after, we added the much larger livefs?
<calc> cjwatson: we can shuffle the time around, but i would prefer if it is at least 13:00UTC
<cjwatson> calc: 1600 UTC is probably fine
<ogra> oh, i used it from hoary to gutsy ... but dont have DVDs for edubuntu anymore sicne hardy
<doko> cjwatson, calc: ohh, I see, I have to leave at 16:00 UTC on Friday, so maybe we could start earlier?
<calc> doko: that will be fine
<cjwatson> doko: if you have to leave at 1600, won't we need to have the call before that? :)
<doko> calc, cjwatson: 15:15 UTC?
<calc> doko: ok
<cjwatson> fine
<cjwatson> any other business?
<doko> no, things will normalize after Sunday =)
<asac> victory!
<asac> ;)
<ogra> heh
<asac> sorry, i dont ment to offend anyone
<asac> :-P
 * calc assumes the references are to FIFA?
<cjwatson> doko: normal == you will have other business? :-)
<asac> calc: EURO ;)
<slangasek> I'm just offended that it's not called the DollarCup
<calc> asac: ah
<liw> are you people talking about sports cups?
<doko> cjwatson: I'm not living in this country, where people tend to go to the carribbean during the EURO for other things ;-p
<cjwatson> heh
<cjwatson> I think we're done, then
<cjwatson> thanks everyone
<doko> ok, heading to bed
 * TheMuso gets breakfast.
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<calc> goodnight
<TheMuso> thanks folks
<liw> tackar och bockar
<james_w> thanks, night all
<evand> thanks
<bryce> night
<bryce> I'll have the minutes up later; multitasking heavily atm
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-26
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<jeff__> Are there logs from the north american membership meeting today?
<jeff__> I missed it on the drive home
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Jun 12:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 15:00: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 17:00:  Server Team | 02 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 03 Jul 00:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 15:00: Desktop Team
<persia> jeff__: irclogs.ubuntu.com tends to be mostly complete
<jeff__> Yeah I missed the membership meeting with me in it :-/
<jeff__> When did they add in there was going to be a meeting, a week or less ago?
<nxvl> @schedule lima
<ubottu> nxvl: Schedule for America/Lima: 26 Jun 05:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 08:00: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 10:00:  Server Team | 02 Jul 12:00: QA Team | 02 Jul 17:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 08:00: Desktop Team
<persia> Right.  There ought be some useful discrimination of channels there.  The MOTU School Session doesn't happen here.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<lifeless> putting the channel inthe meeting would do that
<lifeless> "26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces #ubuntu-motu" for instance
<persia> Well, it's #ubuntu-classroom.
<lifeless> persia: "for instance"
<persia> lifeless: OK.  In that case my feature request has been implemented, but the documentation hasn't been passed to the relevant meeting organiser.
<persia> That being an educational issue, it can be sorted by the Dean.
<persia> lifeless: And thanks for the explanation :)
<lifeless> persia: I think having 'rooms' that have separate schedules would be good; I was really just noting an obvious workaround :)
<persia> lifeless: The bot isn't able to differentiate on the title then?
<lifeless> persia: I have no idea about implementation
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<pitti> greetings, Earthlings!
<Riddell> hello planet pitti
<Hobbsee> pitti!
<pitti> Hobbsee: look, behind! a three-headed code monkey!
<Hobbsee> pitti: ARGH!!!!
 * Hobbsee runs
 * pitti tosses a gummybear to Riddell
<Keybuk> Oh!  Wo ist mein Gummi?  Ich habe sie verloren!
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: none for you.  NOT YOURS!
<seb128> hello there
<pedro_> ahoj
<Keybuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv8icJf8mjk
<MacSlow> ola
<Keybuk> kwwii: openbios?!
<kwwii> yepp :-)
<MacSlow> hey pitti, Riddell, Hobbsee, Keybuk, seb128, kwwii, pedro_
<Keybuk> this is a bit of a departure from wallpapers :-)
<Hobbsee> heya MacSlow!
<Keybuk> MacSlow: you forgot mvo
 * mvo is here
<MacSlow> mvo, Michaeeeeel!
 * tedg is here too!
<Keybuk> so, how is everybody today?
<MacSlow> yo tedg
<MacSlow> tedg, oh no... howdy it is now for you right? :)
<tedg> Howdy y'all ;)
<Keybuk> howdy par'd'ner
 * MacSlow sweats like a pig
<Keybuk> tedg: did you check your gun at the channel entrance ?
<MacSlow> but that probably more info than everybody wanted :)
<tedg> Keybuk: Of course not!  That'd be un-American (for people in Texas).
<MacSlow> tedg, I wonder how long you'll have to endure texas-related jokes now
<Keybuk> if any of you ever get to visit Dell, take great delight in the gun checks they have in each building
<tedg> I'm working on my "folks-y" analogies.  That's crazier than a chicken with a trough full of speed.  (not quite there yet)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, serious?
<Keybuk> and the prominent sign on the door reminding all employees that hand guns are not to be worn in the building and must be checked
<Keybuk> MacSlow: yup
<tedg> MacSlow: In Texas guns are allowed by default, unless they are explicitly forbidden with obvious signs.
<MacSlow> tedg, Keybuk: gee! that gives me the creeps!
<Keybuk> anyway, meeting time
<Keybuk> in a radical move, I put together the agenda again:
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-06-26
<Keybuk> I only saw the item from MacSlow, did I miss any others?
<MacSlow> so I begin?
<mvo> do the flip!
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: gasp!
<MacSlow> mvo, only one? :)
<Keybuk> no, we begin with outstanding actions from the last meeting ;-)
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk> MacSlow to update clutter to appropriate version, not worrying about parallel install
<MacSlow> done
 * Keybuk saw a comment from njpatel saying he wished we had clutter 0.7
<ogra> but likely referring to hardy :)
<MacSlow> speaking of the de... :)
<Keybuk> njpatel: you wanted clutter 0.7?  in intrepid?
<MacSlow> njpatel, just kidding :)
<seb128> and somebody asked me about it this week too
<MacSlow> njpatel, have a look https://edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/+archive
<njpatel> Keybuk: yeah 0.7 and 0.8 is released in a few weeks
<seb128> MacSlow: any reason it's in your ppa and not in intrepid? ;-)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: who will be checking and sponsoring that for you?
<seele> Keybuk: pinged jono again but havnÂ´t gotten a reply yet
<MacSlow> seb128, njpatel: well I skipped the docs for those packages... because I intet them for personal use first :)
<MacSlow> so don't go around suggesting those to everybody :)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: that doesn't fulfill the outstanding action :-)
<njpatel> MacSlow: cool
<Keybuk> MacSlow: the action was go get the new clutter in the archive
<Keybuk> so I shall leave that as outstanding for next week
<MacSlow> Keybuk, ups... ehm... well then I misunderstood that part... with archive I assumed just my PPA *cough*
<Keybuk> seele: thanks
<Keybuk> MacSlow: and how are you doing on merges?
<MacSlow> except for gnumeric/goffice all the other assigned ones (gtkglext, planner, gnome-pilot-conduits, gnome-netstatus) are done
<Keybuk> (this can also segue nicely into our first agenda item)
<MacSlow> hey mpt
<Keybuk>  * MacSlow: problems with merging goffice (needed by gnumeric)
<seb128> goffice is not an easy one indeed
<MacSlow> Keybuk, but for some I worked on other fokls were faster and uploaded before me
<mpt> Sorry, I was out and it took longer than expected
<MacSlow> yeah... have a look here -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/rules
<mpt> (bureaucratic stuff)
 * mvo waves to mpt
<MacSlow> that certainly is over my head in regards of package/merge-magic capabilities
<Keybuk> did you look at the Ubuntu patch to see what the intent was?
<Keybuk> oh
<Keybuk> wow
<Keybuk> the Ubuntu patch is quite insane
<MacSlow> seb128, mvo: I'll gladly take any tips and hints you can give me to get goffice/gnumeric done
<seb128> the intend is to build gtk variants for xubuntu
<seb128> so it's basically rewritting the build system to build it twice
<seb128> and debian added dbg variants in the meantime
<Keybuk> seb128: could you help MacSlow with that one?
<seb128> yes
<Keybuk> let him do the work, but make sure he knows what to do and why
<MacSlow> seb128, a thousand thanks!
<seb128> alright
<pitti> (that patch -> maaadness!)
<seb128> MacSlow: you're welcome ;-)
<MacSlow> pitti, but then... I need challanges to learn that stuff so you'll get less questions from me in the future :)
<Keybuk> even I wouldn't know where to begin there :p
<MacSlow> hm... this is my lucky week then... ;)
<MacSlow> just got the right thing :)
<Keybuk> ok thanks
<MacSlow> np
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> ye olde Sponsoring queue
<Keybuk> mvo: there's a coreutils merge in there, have you looked at it or is slangasek?
<pitti> wow, 188690  shows me as pitti(97); I'm sure that I wasn't on that list last week, and I certainly didn't get a bug mail about it; yay Launchpad
<Keybuk> seb128: there's a gnome-applets fix for gailishness
<seb128> Keybuk: yes, I intend to upload that this afternoon
<pitti> oh, 188690 is a multi-task bug where I just happened to fix some tasks
<seb128> I was just delaying it because the configure seems to have a requirement on libgail for nothing
<kwwii> pitti: thanks for uploading my stuff, btw :-)
<seb128> so ideally the configure should be fixed rather
<Keybuk> seb128: ok
<pitti> kwwii: you're welcome; looking forward to seeing the new theme :)
<mvo> Keybuk: I haven't, because slangasek did the last merge, but I can certainly review/sponsor the merge
<Keybuk> mvo: check with steve first
 * mvo nods
<MacSlow> kwwii, hey... the chocolate brownish in the input-fields is nice!
<Keybuk> ok
<kwwii> MacSlow: it might be a bit too dark but having it that dark avoids a few bugs ;-)
<Keybuk> Any Other Business?
<Riddell> hardy .1 happening this week coming?
<Keybuk> I think so, check with slangasek
<pitti> should be on track if we want to release on time
<pitti> pulseaudio and some samba stuff have to be left unfixed then, though
<Keybuk> before we wrap up, I'd just like to go through everyone to collect a list of specs that are targeted for Intrepid
<Keybuk> Riddell: you first
<Keybuk> (the lp names will suffice)
<Riddell> kubuntu-intrepid-version (the main one)
<Riddell> kubuntu-porting and kubuntu-defaults the other important bits
<Keybuk> any others that community people are working on, or that were discussed at UDS?
<MacSlow> re
<Riddell> kubuntu-intrepid-defaults actually
<MacSlow> sorry...
<Riddell> and kubuntu-intrepid-kde4-porting
<MacSlow> that was the f**king binary blog from nvidia failing (freezing) on me
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> kwwii: none from you?
<Riddell> Keybuk: people are taking bits, keeping track at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<pitti> make-intrepid-shiny? :)
 * MacSlow hugs vuntz
<kwwii> Keybuk: no specs for me, no...but plenty to do anyway :-)
<Keybuk> kwwii: I have "New Theme" for you
<kwwii> as a spec?
<Keybuk> no, just as a roadmap item
<Keybuk> are you working on any other bits?
<kwwii> mainly just the theme
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> pitti:
<kwwii> on the side we have one guy working on OOo icons but I am not sure if it will make it into intrepid
<pitti> intrepid-device-permissions: relatively quick to implement in its current form, no problem on that, I'll do it myself
<pitti> consolidate-spell-checkers: I'll supervise, seb128 will apply some patches when he touches the GNOME packages anyway, and I'll coordinate langpack updates and seed changes with Arne
<pitti> kernel-abi-package-handling: I'm just drafting, implementation will be done by mvo (apt) and tim/Ben  (maintaining kernel that way)
<pitti> jockey-printer-driver-support: that's a huge one, but I'm working on it; some bits come from system-config-printer upstream, I'm coordinating with him
<pitti> gdm-guest-account: still unsure what to do, no response from upstream so far
<Keybuk> gdm-guest-account has a sabdfl priority
<pitti> other stuff: I'm working with Alberto to integrate envy into jockey, and hand over nvidia/ati jockey handlers to him, as well as repackaging the nvidia/ati bits
<pitti> Keybuk: seb128 thinks that it'd be better to use the new gdm for that, but if I don't get a response soon, I think I'll do some more homebrew solution, if you don't mind
<Keybuk> sure
<seb128> pitti: you might want to try #gdm on gimpnet
<MacSlow> pitti, seb128: hm... is the new gdm packaged yet for intreipd?
<pitti> seb128: I'll try that
<seb128> MacSlow: no, and but we really need it right?
<seb128> the update is tricky
<seb128> there is no config migration code upstream
<pitti> (NB that the new gdm doesn't really support guest logins yet; that'd still require lots of work)
<seb128> and the new codebase still lacks feature the old one had
<MacSlow> pitti, seb128: yes... and that's why I want to offer my help on that... it touches your and my stuff
<seb128> ideally I would say there is no hurry to update but there is the face browser thing
<MacSlow> seb128, yeah... the "login experience" is my highest prio task this cycle
<MacSlow> seb128, btw... it's officially called "login experience" now... no long "face-browser"... just to avoid confusion in the future :)
<seb128> alright
<MacSlow> but I won't rename the spec
<Keybuk> mvo:
<mvo> packagekit-intrepid: mostly implementation work by glazor and testing what works and what dosn't, pitti already upload latest packagekit (thanks!)
<mvo> compiz-intrepid: mostly tweaks, unless we want to use the glxclip plugin and not wait for dri2
<Keybuk> I don't mind if we barely touch compiz this cycle
<pitti> packagekit-intrepid> I need to fix a couple of more things, and haven't tested repository adding/removing yet; I'll help with that
<mvo> kernel-abi-package-handling: the apt bits are tricky with the two dimensional design that is proposed, especially because it looks like the aptitude and smart resolver need to be modified too (smart for landscape love)
<MacSlow> mvo, hm... DRI2 atm only exists for i915 afaik... other free driver will take some time to "catch up"... not sure who might be working on getting DRI2 in the other drivers
<mvo> upgrade-testing-in-the-sandbox: I would like to give people the ability to clone there machine into a VM and run a upgrade test there
<MacSlow> mvo, I could ask around in the "Xorg-circles" I know... of we'll just ask bryce if he knows something on the DRI2-status in other drivers
<mvo> single-sign-on releated work (sent mail to Keybuk (not sure if you had a chance to read it yet and how much we can talk in a public channel)
<pitti> mvo: but the two dimensions should be handled entirely independent from each other? also, why does it actually need changes in the resolver? translating them into dependencies doesn't work?
<mvo> some improvements to the auto upgrade tester: libvirt and snapshots for better debgging of failures
<Keybuk> mvo: which mail was that?
<mvo> Keybuk: sent to you on monday, give me a sec and I give you the msgid
<Keybuk> oh, the backup bits?
<mvo> MacSlow: yeah, there is this "hack" plugin that can clip away dri windows in compiz
<mvo> Keybuk: yes
<Keybuk> ah, I had mentally filed that as "backup" not ubunet
<MacSlow> mvo, I know... you and/or onestone demoed that to me at Prague
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> MacSlow:
<mvo> pitti: its tricky, it needs to be fast because the depcache is not cached but rebuild on every run
<MacSlow> Keybuk, yes?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: which specs/projects will you be working on for Intrepid? :-)
<MacSlow> damn... I hope my DSL isn't freaking out again
<MacSlow> Keybuk, mostly login-experience (gdm-face-browser)... do assigned bugs... pick up sparkle-plugin form last cycle if possible
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> tedg:
<tedg> power-management-settings (at least the GPM parts), network-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-?
<Keybuk> -?
<Keybuk> ?
<seb128> what are those network account things?
<tedg> I'm unsure if any of the others have priority.  It was to get you to ask :)
<tedg> seb128: Single-sign-on/Ubuntu.net/NAP (we're searching for a name)
<seb128> ah ok
<Keybuk> tedg: which ones have you drafted so far?
<seb128> just making sure that's not a network-admin thing
<tedg> Keybuk: I think all of them but the applications are in good shape.
<tedg> I should re-read them though.
<Keybuk> tedg: what are the names? :p
<Keybuk> (for the log)
<tedg> network-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-launchpad, network-account-profiles-management, network-account-profiles-applications
<tedg> Oh, and there's the umbrella network-account-profiles
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> seb128:
<seb128> better-login-speed intrepid-menus-review consolidate-spell-checkers
<seb128> gnome-2-24 too
<seb128> and there is the music and photo experiences reviews, but I don't know if you consider those as intrepid targets
<Keybuk> what are the names of those specs?
<seb128> ubuntu-music-experience is the music one
<seb128> did register the photo one, it's lot of work if we want to open bugs for every issues which has been listed
<seb128> s/did/didn't
<seb128> but I can make one and dump the notes in the wiki for now
<seb128> ubuntu-photo-experience
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> in terms of GNOME 2.24, there's a couple of big new pieces
<Keybuk> we've already discussed gdm
<Keybuk> how's the new gnome-session going?
<seb128> I landed GTK 2.13 in intrepid
<MacSlow> ah cool
<seb128> gnome-session is packaged locally but I'm still discussing with upstream how to do "use compiz but fallback to something else if the wrapper exit an error"
<seb128> right now it doesn't handle that
<seb128> I talked with lucas about it yesterday and he should have some code to try for that soon
<pitti> seb128: could the wrapper just start metacity itself, as a fallback?
<pitti> as opposed to failing with a magic exit code and leave the fallback to g-s?
<seb128> pitti: the issue is that the new gnome-session wait for the started component to register to continue login
<seb128> so if we start compiz but something else register it gets really confused
<seb128> wait
<seb128> go to timeout
<seb128> and that looks ugly
<seb128> we need a way for gnome-session to know that the wm has been started to it can continue to the next login sequence
<seb128> s/to/so
<Keybuk> ok thanks seb128
<seb128> I'm not really concerned about this one, it's going to be fixed one way or another soon
<seb128> gdm is an another topic
<Keybuk> we're almost out of time for the meeting, so any other business?
<seb128> we really want the new one right?
<Keybuk> we dp
<Keybuk> we do
<seb128> we will have some feature not available
<Keybuk> which features?
<pitti> ^ we are used to that from hardy and gvfs </dark sarcasm>
<seb128> pitti: no real regression in gvfs, just some bugs
<seb128> sec
<seb128> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2008-June/msg00017.html
<pitti> seb128: (btw, we'll switch to gphotofs for good?)
<seb128> pitti: yes
<seb128> I'm also not comfortable having no configuration migration on upgrade
<seb128> but I'm not sure how much work it would me to write some code for that and I've already way too much to do
<pitti> uh, and no gdmsetup any more?
<Keybuk> the mail says the new gdm has no configuration to migrate to? :)
<kwwii> wow, you can't even theme the thing
<seb128> Keybuk: I think there is some configurable settings, just no interface to change the values ;-)
<pitti> seb128: sudo -u gdm gconf-editor then? (it uses gconf exclusively, I guess)
<seb128> pitti: right
<kwwii> erm, if we are going to use this we are going to need to have a dev work with me on the themeing, according to that email
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> new gdm hard
<seb128> well, MacSlow is working on the new gdm login experience as a priority this cycle apparently
 * Keybuk picks a suitable large spanner out of the toolbox and heads for the works with an evil glint in his eye
<pitti> I guess I'll go with the d-bus backend solution for the guest account then, to not block on the new gdm, and implementing guest support in it
<MacSlow> kwwii, yes... no theming yet
<pitti> with my newly acquired skills of writing d-bus backends with PolicyKit support that shouldn't be too hard :)
<seb128> on an another side intrepid is not a lts
<pitti> Keybuk: btw, do you consider it an intrepid goal to get rid of the remaining gksu usages in the desktop? or just as "eventually"?
<seb128> we could land the new gdm soon as it is
<Keybuk> pitti: eventually
<Keybuk> intrepid would be nice
<Keybuk> seb128: your call, I think
<seb128> and then try to work with upstream at fixing issues
<pitti> Keybuk: *nod*
<Keybuk> if you'd like a second opinion, pitti can probably give one
<seb128> knowing that we might not have configuration migration for intrepid
<pitti> mvo: PKification of the language selector etc. :)
<seb128> not sure if we really care about that though
<mvo> pitti: synaptic?
<seb128> ok
<pitti> mvo: that one is hard; I don't think we have time to migrate that for intrepid
<pitti> not as long as PK doesn't support debconf & dpkg conffiles
<pitti> mvo: but e. g. the language selector is easy, langpacks are tame
<mvo> yeah, happy that you share my feelings about this
<mvo> indeed
<seb128> ACTION: seb128 to package the new gdm stock upstream version and upload to the desktop team ppa for people who want to give it a try
<Keybuk> seb128: that's a good plan
<pitti> mvo: and we could finally use it for user settings as well, such as configuring scim
<mvo> pitti: we do use it for scim on a user-basis already
<pitti> mvo: oh, right, it's already run as user and calls gksu synaptic
<mvo> we also need a interface to write default language, but that ties in nicely with the http proxy work that needs a similar interface
<pitti> seb128: will we retain g-s-t for intrepid, or will that go away somehow?
<mvo> /etc/default/locale
<pitti> seb128: (since I noticed that Fedora doesn't even ship it) I wonder what they use?
<mvo> I guess they use there system-config-* stuff
<pitti> ah
<seb128> pitti: they use redhat system tools
<seb128> pitti: ie, system-config-printer, etc
<seb128> dunno, but I want to get ride of g-s-t
<pitti> seb128: I'm not saying that we should kill g-s-t, just curious about the plans
<seb128> it's ugly, complex, written in perl, not used by other distros and not maintained upstream now
 * mvo ++
<pitti> oh, Carlos stopped developing it?
<seb128> the plan is to deprecate network-admin in favor of network-manager 0.7
<ogra> and a pain if you need to add stuff that should show up in the UI
<mvo> seb128: we need to come up with something for the system config http proxies etc anyway, maybe we can fold something in here too
<seb128> to use the gnome-panel clock config rather than time-admin
<seb128> services-admin sucks and does nothing we can just remove it
<pitti> seb128: right, got that; time-admin is also pretty obsolete, the panel has that
<pitti> seb128: but users-admin?
<seb128> we just need to find an equivalent to users-admin
<ogra> pitti, the wors
<ogra> t
<seb128> pitti: let's look at the redhat system tool for that one? ;-)
<ogra> ++
<pitti> seb128: do we use anything else from g-s-t? I can't find more ATM
<seb128> users-admin doesn't work anyway
<seb128> by reading the bug flood on launchpad about gnome-system-tools
<seb128> pitti: no, I just did the list
<seb128> we deprecated shares-admin if favor of nautilus-share already
<seb128> and as said I don't think services-admin is of any use
<pitti> and with our dropping of system groups the profile/groups stuff is mostly unneeded, too
<pitti> seb128: so if users-admin is the only reason why we still have g-s-t/s-c-b, I'm all for replacing it with something more adequate
<pitti> shall I have a look at the tool in Fedora?
<seb128> yes please
<mvo> a way to set the workgroup from the UI would be nice again, but otherwise I think sharesadmin is pretty solid
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to evaluate Fedora tool for user administration
<pitti> Keybuk: ^
<ogra> pitti, i find it funny that only fedora comes up in tehse discussions all the time
<seb128> mvo: maybe network-manager 0.7 can do that ;-)
<ogra> what are others using ?
<seb128> ogra: yast? ;-)
<pitti> ogra: is there another option?
<ogra> no idea
<pitti> it was the only alternative that came up ATM
<ogra> but nobody ever says lets look at mandrake ... or gentoo
<mvo> seb128: that seems to be the solution for all problems ;)
<ogra> (just a sidenote)
<pitti> and if there's no official GNOME tool to do it, we just have to look at what the others use, no?
<seb128> I'm not a fan of the drake tools and they are written in perl too
<pitti> right, Mandriva is worse
<seb128> gentoo uses gnome-system-tools I guess
<ogra> pitti, pardus :)
<seb128> as do debian
 * ogra hides
<seb128> or other non corporate distros which don't have the ressources to write their own tools
<pitti> ogra: the advantage I see here is that we want to get rid of gksu and don't have root; Fedora has the same goal, thus I think that their tool will comply to that
 * pitti apologizes to Keybuk for stealing the meeting focus
<pitti> let's continue that in #u-devel
<ogra> pitti, right, that was a more general comment, i remember a while ago we always inspected nearly every option ... today its alwas lets look what fedora has
 * MacSlow wonders what about everybodies darling Python and PyGTK
<pitti> ogra: well, I just saw the horrible Mandriva tools, I really don't like them
<pitti> I haven't seen yast in a while, and admittedly I have no clue about gentoo and pardus
<seb128> well, as said I don't think non commercial distros have ressources to write their tools
<seb128> I think gentoo uses gnome-system-tools too
<kwwii> just use yast - it can do *everything*
 * kwwii ducks
 * MacSlow looks for a blade of some sort
<MacSlow> :)
<pitti> MacSlow: what about it?
 * tedg is using yast right now to make coffee -- mmm
<pitti> MacSlow: I mean pygtk
<MacSlow> pitti, I thought these kind of UI-settings tools were all written in Python... reading that those are actually written in perl strikes me as very unusual
<mvo> MacSlow: its the best of all worlds, the gui is C and the backend is perl
<pitti> MacSlow: g-s-t is C, system-config-backends is Perl
<MacSlow> pitti, would Python not be a much better language of choice for such tools?
<ogra> tedg, do you use the make dishes plugin as well ?
<MacSlow> mvo, pitti: oh... I thought it was all perl
<pitti> MacSlow: that's the Mandriva stuff
<pitti> (and it looks horrible, too)
<tedg> ogra: No, turns out it breaks mine then apologizes in German :)
<MacSlow> pitti, never saw any of those tools from Mandriva
<ogra> lol
<pitti> they'd make mpt scream and run in triangles :)
<mpt> :-(
<MacSlow> mpt, that bad?! Uff
<james_w> the server team have been looking at http://augeas.net/ It doesn't seem to have a frontend, but it might make one easier
<mpt> I'd love to design a new user accounts tool if needed
<kwwii> obtuse triangles
<pitti> james_w: oh, backend for ebox?
<seb128> ogra: who said we are not looking around?
<james_w> pitti: yup, but it might be interesting to have it as a backend for a g-s-t replacement as well.
<pitti> james_w: certainly worth keeping in mind; not so interesting for user administration perhaps, though
<pitti> james_w: but really interesting for other purposes
<james_w> pitti: true.
<ogra> seb128, :)
<pitti> thanks for the heads-up
<pitti> we overstepped the meeting time, but at least for me personally that was useful
<seb128> same for me
<pitti> Keybuk: anything else for the meeting?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
 * pitti takes that as a "no" then and thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-27
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
<JDCarroll> Is this the motu meeting?
<persia> JDCarroll: Why so it is.  Thanks for the reminder.
<JDCarroll> This is my first one. I didn't know if they start on time or what.
<persia> JDCarroll: They usually do, although this one was poorly organised.  Reviewing the minutes, it appears that this is my fault.
 * ajmitch is around, but not really awake
<persia> Right.  So, welcome to the MOTU Meeting.  Who's here?
<JDCarroll> I am, but you kinda knew that.
 * Hobbsee is, ish
 * RAOF is.
 * ScottK too.
<persia> So, let's get started then.
<persia> The agenda for the meeting is posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<persia> First up: ScottK
<ScottK> Crap.  I've been tricked.
<ajmitch> heh
<ScottK> Who all is here?
<persia> Respondees to attendance roll were JDCarroll, Hobbsee, RAOF, ajmitch, and ScottK
<ScottK> OK.  So did all of you see my proposal on this (sent to the MOTU list)?
<ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-June/004060.html
<RAOF> Yes.  This seems like a good idea in theory, but "rough consensus" seems a bit vague.  Is it possible to define more precisely?
<ScottK> Not really.
<ScottK> It's not a specific number.
<crimsun_> precisely because the baseline for rough consensus simply is a degenerate form of the current practice.
<ScottK> The idea is to keep working until you get something that most people are OK with.
<ScottK> crimsun_: I disagree with degenerate.  I think it's better.
<ScottK> I think voting on everything is problematic.
<crimsun_> I don't think you'd be worried about the worst case here; it seems the average case is better with rough consensus.
<ScottK> Rough consensus could also be described as 'almost everybody'.
<RAOF> Right.  And we'll be using essentially an assumed-OK position (ie: not-OKness is determined by objections, not lack of OKness)?
<ScottK> Something like that.
<RAOF> I'm happy with that.  I think that corresponds to the way motu@ is working.
<persia> I think it encourages taking initiative, but worry that it may delay decision in some cases.
<crimsun_> legitimate worry to which I alluded.  On the whole, it seems better than the current scheme.
<ScottK> It gives everyone a chance to get their view heard without limits due to timezones too.
<ScottK> Any more discussion?
<persia> wgrant pointed out possible bootstrapping issues of this proposal the day it was sent.
<persia> I can't speak for him directly, but I wonder if others have an opinion on that: given the current discussion of decision making processes, how should the decision to change the decision making process be taken?
<ScottK> The only way it can be taken is by using the existing process.
<ScottK> My thought was to vote and then mail the MOTU list and ask for objections.
<ScottK> Thus doing an abbreviated form of the new process.
<persia> Which would be the new process :)
<persia> I'd like to propose instead that rather than consider whether this is a good model forever and more, we decide whether we should use this model for the next two MOTU Meetings, with the ability to retain it permanently at one of those meetings if the process is found good.
<ScottK> How about revert to the old process if it's found to be bad?
<ScottK> Same idea, but different default.
<persia> I tend to be conservative, with default being current.  Anyone else have a preference for one default over the other in terms of the decision we make today, or would prefer a different process to change the decision making process?
<Hobbsee> i would have thought that if there hadn't been much objection on the mailing list so far, the MC could make a decision that it was switched, based on the general consensus
<persia> Speaking personally, I'd much rather it be an MOTU decision than an MC decision.
<ScottK> Generally MC is the executer of policy, not the maker of it.
<ScottK> MC gets to step in to break deadlocks, but that's about it.
<ScottK> All power from the people!!!
<Hobbsee> or that you just go with the general consensus
<persia> Well, MC doesn't execute everything: more about handling applications and disputes.
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but if MOTU as a body asked MC to take on an additional duty, it would be in scope for them to do so.
<persia> ScottK: I suppose so, but we're off topic.
<ScottK> No one really objected, so I'd like to have a vote and move on.
<Hobbsee> either way, voting seems to be the old protocol, so we could just hold a vote, and bang, it's done, as it's already had it's talk on the ML.
 * Hobbsee puts in a +1
<persia> I don't really like votes: we've had lots of non-vote decisions in the meeting.
<persia> Instead I'll ask: are there any opposed to trialing the new process?
<ScottK> I'd like to just switch.
<ScottK> But a trial is better than nothing.
<crimsun_> so as long as the rough consensus is present, then trial it?
<ScottK> Fine.
<persia> crimsun_: Roughly.  We've had votes in MOTU Meetings, but often also used consensus amoung MOTU Meeting attendees as a decision criteria, which I've always preferred.
<persia> This is especially more interesting when there seems to be so little opposition.
<Hobbsee> which i suspect we've got both of, yes.
<persia> OK.  Anything else about MOTU Decision Making process?
<ajmitch> persia: apathy wins on the day
<persia> OK.  Moving on: Does anyone have any other items they wish to raise at today's meeting?
<RAOF> What is the actual process, post-DIF for merges?
<persia> I'm personally in favour of either ignoring the "Freeze" as something needing exception or using the Hardy process.  No decision has been forthcoming from the Release Manager.
<persia> That said, we ought get the rest of the merges done, and work on integration.
<RAOF> Yes.
 * ajmitch always thought DIF was more of a guideline than a freeze
 * ScottK suggests it doesn't mean anything other than autosync is turned off and some merges are now late.
<ajmitch> that's pretty much what it's been in the past
 * RAOF share's ScottK's impression.
<ScottK> Note that since we don't have a rule that the last uploader owns a merge, no one is actually responsible for being late.
<persia> Right.  Does anyone feel constrained by DIF, or a need to constrain others?
<ScottK> No.
<RAOF> No.
<persia> Excellent then.  Any other items?
<JDCarroll> I'm an aspiring MOTU and just wanted to say 'Hi'
<JDCarroll> 'Hi'
<ScottK> Hello JDCarroll
<RAOF> JDCarroll: Hi.
<crimsun_> hello, have fun!
<RAOF> Welcome to a fairly typical MOTU meeting :)
<persia> Next up: The next MOTU Meeting will be 11th July 12:00 UTC.  Could someone who remembers to send out announcements please volunteer to do so?
<persia> Right.  I'll try again, but encourage anyone who notices the mail failing to be sent to do so, in case I forget again.
<RAOF> Thanks.
 * ScottK hands persia cron.
<persia> Any volunteers to write up the minutes for today?
<ScottK> ;-)
<persia> ScottK: Would you, as your topic was the most discussed?
<ScottK> persia: Actually I think that makes me a poor candidate as I'm not neutral.
<ScottK> Plus a suck at meeting minutes.
<ScottK> a/I
<Hobbsee> persia: from what i've heard from the RM, the "freeze" is an incorrectly termed thing - people are supposed to think about if their changes are appropriate, but are to do that anyway.
<Hobbsee> ie, there is no change apart from teh autosync being off
<Hobbsee> (sorry, was afk for that bit)
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, there's been a fair bit of informal direction, just nothing clear.  I'm hoping something gets written down in the RM procedure to avoid a repetition of the confusion for intrepid+1.
<persia> Hobbsee: And as a bonus, you get the minutes :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: congratulations
<Hobbsee> oh, fudge.
<Hobbsee> well, that's a great way to ensure that the minutes won't get done :P
<ajmitch> "Stuff was said, I think. Noone really objected"
 * persia has supreme confidence in Hobbsee's get-it-done-ness
<persia> OK.  Thanks everyone for coming to the MOTU Meeting.  Remember to pre-announce your discussion items on the Mailing List for next week.
<persia> ScottK: Would you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings to have the right guidance to use this process?
<ScottK> Yes.  Probably sometime this weekend.  Feel free to ping me if it's not done on Monday.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* norsetto changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 June 20:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 20:00 UTC: MOTU Mentoring | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Mentoring | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
<huats> porthose: ping
<huats> there I am
<porthose> huats: pong
<huats> I am christophe
<porthose> charlie
<huats> nice to meet you
<porthose> you to looks like we are missing a few
<huats> still waiting for nxvl and norsetto
<porthose> did you make contact with all the MOTU's? I managed to email everyone on the "status" list and have actually got two answers back
<huats> oh no
<huats> I haven't started yet
<huats> but I know most of them
<huats> it might help
<huats> I will contact them in the we
<porthose> Stefano Forenza (tacone) and Hanno Stock (hefe_bia) have expressed that they are still very much interested
<huats> ok
<huats> great
<huats> I haven't understand which motus have you contacted ?
<huats> imbrandon (*)
<huats> slomo
<huats> raphink
<huats> seb128 (*)
<huats> ogra
<huats> mvo (*)
<huats> jr (*)
<huats> jcorbier
<huats> bluekuja (most probably he left the community)
<huats> jpatrick (*)
<huats> (which is the list of inactive motus cesare send)
<huats> or another list ?
<porthose> Yea I think cesare wanted those  motus contacted to see if the are still interested in mentoring
<huats> sure
<huats> but did you contact them
<huats> or is it the list I should contact ?
<porthose> No I didn't I just worked on the status list
<huats> ok
<norsetto> holy $deity
<norsetto> my apologies, I had another meeting which lasted more than I thought
<porthose> np take a breath and get organized
<norsetto> np, lets start
<norsetto> ok, so I guess you have seen my email, and started working on it already
<huats> norsetto: the meeting warrior
<porthose> yep
<norsetto> I've seen huats is taking care of mentors and porthose of contributors
<huats> I could'nt contact the MOTUs so far
<porthose> so far I have gotten 4 responses from the status list
<huats> but I will do by the we
<norsetto> huats: ok
<norsetto> huats: I think we really have to understand if they are willing to continue or not
<huats> norsetto: sure
<huats> I was planning to contact them by the WE
<huats> ...
 * ogra would surely be willing, but like the other canonical employees on that list is swamped in work 
<huats> it is clearly necessary
<norsetto> ogra: yeah, we all are
<ogra> right
<huats> thanks ogra
<norsetto> ogra: I don't think mentoring is such an heavy activity though, its more beng there if it is needed
<norsetto> ogra: that also depends very much on the mentee, I think its a good idea to clarify from the very beginning how one wants to do it
<ogra> norsetto, well, its also handlig , mail traffic (i get between 3-600 mails/day) and am currntly in my 12th working hour for today
<ogra> it just adds up to the usual stuff and is the first thing i let fall over for higher prio things like fixing SRU bugs for example ...
<ogra> i know thats evil, but thats how it is ... doent really make me feel comfortable
<ogra> *doesnt
<norsetto> ogra: anyhow, what little we can do is anyhow appreciated, we really need to get more contributors, and more active contributors, exactly for these very reasons
<ogra> right, thats why i didnt ask to be removed from that list, i'm generally willing to help out
<norsetto> ogra: I'm glad we can have this talk, and I'm even more glad to know that I can count on you :-)
<norsetto> porthose: you were mentioning you got feedback from 4 contributors already?
<porthose> Yea let me dig up there names
<porthose> bobby, lexen, hannon and tacone have said that they are still interested
<norsetto> do you know if they have been active? I have seen tacone but not the others
<porthose> tacone=stefano
<porthose> Hanno is in school and will not be avaiable for about 3 weed untill finals are over
<porthose> *weeks
<porthose> The other did not give any info
<porthose> *others
<norsetto> ok, now do you think you can take care of coupling them with available mentors?
<porthose> sure I'll give it a try
<norsetto> in general, try to avoid coupling mentors and mentee of the same mother tongue, we want to help integration in the international community
<porthose> ok
<norsetto> it would also be advisable to have them as close as possible in the same time zone, so that they can coordinate easily on IRC
<huats> porthose: is there any menteeÂ²available ?
<norsetto> lastly, see if they have any particular interest, and try to couple them with mentors with the same interests
<porthose> how can I find out what the mentors interests are?
<norsetto> its in the reception list we have on bzr
<norsetto> for instance ogra prefer edubuntu people ;-)
<porthose> got a link?
<norsetto> its in my email, let me fetch it again
<porthose> I can look it up
<norsetto> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception/reception-data/main/annotate/norsetto%40ubuntu.com-20080626215124-121uzr6jn072gnil?file_id=reception.csv-20070522150041-lk3vm33dnskrzs2h-1
<norsetto> you can find it in your code section, in LP
<porthose> Ok cool
<huats> right now there is no MOTU I should contact online (or not responding on ping)
 * porthose looks
<norsetto> porthose: you should also be able to upload, since you are in the team
<norsetto> porthose: you can also check the LP and wiki pages of the mentors and mentee to get an idea
<porthose> good point didn't think about that
<norsetto> once you have suitable couples, just ask the mentor what he thinks about the mentee, give him all the info you have, if he agrees, just send an email to both and upload the change
<norsetto> also, pls. tell them to get you in the loop, and that you are available to help them to sort out things if need be
<norsetto> porthose: if you want, you can ask huats and nxvl if they are willing to help you out, so that you can share the load
<huats> norsetto: is there an email address for the mentor list ?
<huats> since it would be way better to ask people to write there
<norsetto> huats: for the ubuntu-motu-mentor mailing list?
<huats> (since it will help all of us to share the received emails)
<huats> norsetto: I mean the reception team
<huats> us :)
<norsetto> ah, not, what we did in the past was to CC other members of the team, and make sure that they are in CC to received answers (or copy them ourselves)
<huats> ok
<porthose> makes sense to me
<norsetto> we keep the master record in bzr, so that we are all in sync
<huats> norsetto: sure for the master in bzr
<norsetto> what we don't have is a central record of all contributors that are asking for a mentor, thats mainly for privacy reasons
<norsetto> so far this was not a problem because the reception was mainly me, we have to see if this can become a problem, and eventually find ways to solve it
<huats> ok
<norsetto> ok, any questions so far?
<huats> an mail list non archived could be a good way to adress that
<huats> every wanabee mentee send a mail to that list
<huats> and we all receive it...
<norsetto> huats: good idea, where we are the only subscribers, do you think you could organise that?
<huats> I can make one on my own mail server
<huats> but I think it should be doable in LP
<huats> it might be a good idea to ask any LP administrator
<huats> :)
<huats> like mrevell
<norsetto> huats: yes, we should use, if possible, the same system  as the other ubuntu m.l.
<huats> norsetto: I think it is needed
<porthose> how can you tell if there are mentors available for mentee's
<norsetto> porthose: from the reception list on bzr
<norsetto> huats: ok, unless somebody oibjects I think you can be the administrator of the mentoring-reception m.l., once we have it we should make sure that wiki pages are updated with that info
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: and also the LP mentoring pages
<huats> but you could have been it too (privilege of the age and the experience)
<norsetto> which brings me to the final issue, we should really update our wiki pages
<huats> sure
<norsetto> how do you guys see them?
<norsetto> porthose: did I answer your question?
<porthose> I thought they were pretty informative
<porthose> yea
<norsetto> porthose: any problem you think we should correct? missing info?
<porthose> so if I am reading this correctly there are several mentors available for mentee's
<norsetto> porthose: right now yes, for the first time ever!!!
<porthose> will have to get my work flow down before I can figure out if there is any info missing
<norsetto> once we update the list with the latest info from huats, we should even be in a better state, at soime point in time he had like 5 request per month and no mentor available
<huats> ok
<huats> I will contact mrevell on monday
<huats> and the MOTUs I should contact
<huats> I'll let you all know as soon it is done
<norsetto> huats: ok, also, once we have some info about the missing contributors, please update the reception list on bzr
<norsetto> huats: sorry, I meant mentors, not contributors
<huats> norsetto: sure
<huats> :)
<huats> I understood
<huats> I will
<norsetto> ok, I think we covered all the topics I wanted to cover
<norsetto> please, let me know if you need any help, I'm more than available to help you in any way I can
<norsetto> I also think we should have this kind of discussion once in a while, what do you think?
<porthose> yes
<norsetto> I would say once a month, or do you think we should have it more often?
<porthose> sounds good to me
<norsetto> huats?
<huats> +1
<huats> :)
<norsetto> ok, I will recap this and send an email to all of you for the record
<huats> great
<porthose> cool
<norsetto> any other question?
<porthose> well looks like it's time to get to work hehe :)
<norsetto> okki dokki then, thanks guys, its GREAT to have you onboard :-)
<porthose> glad to help
<huats> thanks for having done such a good job norsetto
<huats> ok
<huats> I have to leave
<huats> see you soon all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 05 Jul 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-22
<dholbach> popey: are you going to do anything with ~lococouncil? :-)
<dholbach> you seem to be a bit lonely there :)
<popey> me personally?
<popey> hah, wondering where that came from
 * popey notes there is ~ubuntu-lococouncil
<dholbach> yep, just found it
<popey> I'll apply for it to be removed
 * dholbach hugs popey
<dholbach> oops
<dholbach> I wanted to ask you in #ubuntu-locoteams instead :)
<popey> :)
<MontelEdwards> .url
<deonte> URL title fetching enabled.
<MontelEdwards> .url
<deonte> URL title fetching disabled.
<MontelEdwards> .leave
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-23
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: you going to run the meeting ?
<bodhi_zazen> you do it so well
<cprofitt> Ok...
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Welcome to the UCLP meeting
<cprofitt> please say present if you are here and attending
<bodhi_zazen> present :)
<cprofitt> please say present if you are here and attending
<dinda> present
<bodhi_zazen> welcome dinda ;)
<cprofitt> welcome DougieRichardson
<cprofitt> I am giving doc a bit of time to get in here as the first topic is again his
<DougieRichardson> hey all
<cprofitt> and pleia has the next two...
<cprofitt> if they are not here soon we can skip to my topics which are rather light
<bodhi_zazen> I have some small issues while we wait if you wish
<cprofitt> sure
<bodhi_zazen> I brought up a test server here :
<bodhi_zazen> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<bodhi_zazen> we can use it any way we wish, although I have not set up openid
<bodhi_zazen> ssh access is available, to upload files
<bodhi_zazen> so if people need it for something, just point them in my direction
<cprofitt> any more bodhi_zazen or should I start with my topics?
<bodhi_zazen>  /end side track
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Opinions on the Moodle Course - Good, Bad or Other.
<cprofitt> [LINK] http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
<cprofitt> there are two other courses I have uploaded
<cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=5
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=5
<cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
<cprofitt> I am curious what people thought of the structure of those courses
<cprofitt> they were 'found' by me, but not created by me.
<cprofitt> any comments at all or should we move on?
<bodhi_zazen> I liked the structure of http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=3
<bodhi_zazen> the one on OOO looked good, did not look at all of it
<bodhi_zazen> the one on gimp / inkscape was a bit scant
<cprofitt> yes, the GIMP one was small...
<cprofitt> dinda, or DougieRichardson any comments?
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]  	
<cprofitt> Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
<MootBot> New Topic:   	
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Need for Moodle Instructors to guide other teams.
<cprofitt> accident CR there
<Vantrax> o/
<cprofitt> go ahead Vantrax
<Vantrax> sorry for the delay, hazzards of being at work
<cprofitt> I know those well...
<cprofitt> ok... on the topic of Instructors
<Vantrax> just saying hello, i have no idea whats going on yet:P
<cprofitt> I would like to have us get some people who are willing to do that...
<dinda> cprofitt: i see the license is NC
<cprofitt> to teach other teams, etc how to use moodle effectively
<cprofitt> dinda, it is...
<cprofitt> on two of the three I believe
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<cprofitt> depending on what the group decides we may not want to hosts those
<cprofitt> host
<dinda> using Moodle is the easier part to teach, teaching them to build quality courses is another thing
<cprofitt> yes, building quality courses is a big step.
<cprofitt> I am still working on getting come curriculum writers interested in helping us
<Vantrax> can someone catch me up on what has already been covered?
<dinda> mechanics of using Moodle is pretty straight forward
<cprofitt> dinda, working with the teachers I do - I would disagree
<cprofitt> I have several educators that have found Moodle a bit of a struggle
<cprofitt> so I think having one course and a 'guide' to assist with just using the tools would be a good idea
<pleia2> sorry I'm late
<bodhi_zazen> +1 on intro to moodle
<cprofitt> no problem pleia2 we still need Doc for his topic
<bodhi_zazen> it makes it more "user friendly", lol
<bodhi_zazen> can be short
<cprofitt> any other thoughts on intro to Moodle course being necessary?
<cprofitt> I would like to add it officially to out 'to do' list
<dinda> only thing is, there are already existing courses/sites that teach Moodle so why do we need to import those courses here instead of just linking to them?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 linky :)
<cprofitt> dinda, linking would be better... if you have the resource links please share them with us
<Vantrax> i agree with that, id like to avoid reinventing the wheel
<dinda> cprofitt: the course material you imported - is that on a live site?
<cprofitt> though if we have 'non-standard' modules we may need some material on those
<cprofitt> dinda, I think it is on a live site, but not sure if it is hosted as a course or just as a download
<cprofitt> I doubt there is a 'guide' (as in live person) attached to it
<cprofitt> the details of 'how' we provide can be worked on later... do we agree we need to have some form of intro to using moodle -- be it pointed to or built?
<dinda> +1
<pleia2> +1
<cprofitt> [VOTE] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
<MootBot> Please vote on:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<DougieRichardson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cprofitt> any more votes?
 * dinda waves to Dougie
<cprofitt> any more votes?
 * cprofitt using Robert's Rules
<DougieRichardson> hey dinda
<cprofitt> any more votes - last call
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<cprofitt> [AGREED] UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
<MootBot> AGREED received:  UCLP should include a course (or link to a course) on how to use Moodle
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Canonical offered to put us in touch with the SFLS, should we take them up on this offer?
<cprofitt> You are up pleia2
<pleia2> ok, not much to say with this
<pleia2> greg-g offered some assistance
<pleia2> but I think if we remain at a stalemate licensing/legal-wise, we should contact SFLS
<cprofitt> pleia2, I think we should take them up on the offer... and should prepare a list of questions outside of IRC
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> so that there is less 'argument' pre asking them for the advice
<cprofitt> dinda, what is involved in us getting that help?
<pleia2> I don't want to hold things up if we actually can agree :) I expect SFLS might take a little while
<dinda> always good to have them in your back pocket, even if not used immediately
<dinda> I just need the team mailing list address or should it just be sent to the project leads?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 , I hope outside advice will make the issue less contentious
<cprofitt> leads would be better at this time I think...
<pleia2> dinda: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning
<pleia2> so ubuntu-learning@lists.ubuntu.com
<cprofitt> but it is no skin off my nose either way
<Vantrax> yeah, im thinking jsut the board
<Vantrax> i havent actually made the list on the LP for the board
<pleia2> oh
<dinda> and something is eating all my mail from that list, so not sure what is up with that
<cprofitt> do the board members think drafting questions ahead of time would be a good idea?
<pleia2> yep
<Vantrax> ill give you the LP list for the board contact soon as i have it dinda
<cprofitt> [VOTE] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
<MootBot> Please vote on:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dinda> okay, that will work
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
 * dinda goes to resubscribe to the list
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<DougieRichardson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<bodhi_zazen> although I am not sure if each member needs a list, perhaps a discussion on mailing list would be better ?
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<Vantrax> yes
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<Vantrax> that is a good idea bodhi
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cprofitt> [AGREED] The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The UCLP board will contact the SFLS and each board member will prepare a list of questions ahead of time
<Vantrax> but i think we might be better keeping this one on the board list as opposed to the group list. Its going to be painful as it is
<cprofitt> I do not think we each need to send our own list, but I think we should all prepare a list ahead of time
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<bodhi_zazen> I think mailing list makes it easier
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Canonical may require us to host on their servers if we want to use the learn.ubuntu.com name - thoughts?
<cprofitt> you are up again pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> I am OK with it so long as we have access
<pleia2> I presume we would all find this acceptable?
<pleia2> we hadn't really talked about it
<dinda> I got a bunch of good info from our lead Sys Admin, James Troup, the infamous elmo
<bodhi_zazen> which means me, unles someone else wants to sys admin
<dinda> I can paste relevant bits in here
<cprofitt> thanks dinda
<Vantrax> go ahead dinda
<dinda> From James:  I'm happy to host their server, in fact I'd really prefer to if it's going to be learn.ubuntu.com.  The issues around it are:
<cprofitt> there are some pros that I can think of... the project would more smoothly be able to have a transition in leadership if Canonical hosted.
<dinda>   1) them having root on the server
<dinda>  2) them having admin access to moodle interface
<dinda>  3) them having write access to the running moodle code
<dinda>  4) what version of moodle they run
<dinda> (1) would be very hard and may be a blocker if they're convinced they need it (but they don't.  No one else, forums or loco included have root.)
<dinda> (2) is not a problem for me
<dinda> (3) and (4) kind of combine.  We'd need them to run a stable/released version of moodle for security reasons.
<dinda> Even assuming we get agreement on that, we'd really prefer not to do (3) but instead have the code be in a bzr tree that they can request us to pull their changes from after we've review them.  That's negotiable though.
<dinda> Hope that helps/makes sense.
<dinda> end message
<cprofitt> it does make sense
 * DougieRichardson mumbles about the response time of the web team
<pleia2> I've used bzr on the canonical servers before, the system works out nicely
<Vantrax> dinda: there is one instance we do need scp access to be able to update the theme, its copied directly into a folder in the moodle directory
<dinda> exactly dougie, tell us your experiences - might help
<pleia2> for websites
<Vantrax> so we would need scp or sftp access
<DougieRichardson> well we deal with them for the wiki/front page
<Vantrax> there is no web admin for adding themes
<dinda> how often would that need to be done?
<pleia2> Vantrax: for both sites I work with on canonical severs, they gave me shell access
<DougieRichardson> there was a google exploit bug reported last year - still not fixed
<Vantrax> dinda: as often was we change  or update the theme, that would be quite alot in the first few months, then slowing down
<dinda> could you get to a stable point then update before going live?
<DougieRichardson> dinda: they don't tend to respond too quickly in general - perhaps not an issue for day to day admin but if there's a big problem, how do we guaruntee uptime
<cprofitt> we could still have our test server... and then release to the hosted server I guess...
<bodhi_zazen> dinda: if we do not have root access, what kind of response time will we have if we need something on the site ?
<bodhi_zazen> sftp / scp access
<bodhi_zazen> moodle settings adjusted
<bodhi_zazen> php adjustments ?
<dinda> DougieRichardson: that was one thing they specifically said -uptime would be better if they/Canonical hosted
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: honestly, no idea
<DougieRichardson> dinda: not uptime, response time if root access needed
<dinda> it seems to depend on how nice you are to them, where you catch them in the release cycle, IRC
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: typically it's somewhat slow, but you can submit an RT ticket and follow up in IRC to get things done more quickly
<dinda> pleia2: what are your experiences?
<pleia2> there is an IRC channel where they lurk, if you have an RT ticket number they tend to be helpful :)
<bodhi_zazen> I would suggest it may be best if we keep the server we have until the site is set up, then transition ?
<dinda> +1
<Vantrax> thats not a bad idea bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: yeah, plus we won't get learn.ubuntu.com until the project is running anyway :)
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, that would be a good plan
<dinda> pleia2: define "slow"  like a month?  weeks?  days?
<cprofitt> I still share your fear about issues and having them resolved
<pleia2> dinda: if you *only* file an RT ticket, could be months
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to see terms spelled out for something like this
<pleia2> dinda: I can usually get things done in a week if I submit a ticket and followup a few days later
<bodhi_zazen> If i purchase a VPS, there is an agreement on access time
<bodhi_zazen> it the response time is a week, the project will need to be more stable then it is now
<dinda> I know the project may not be a priority at first but I guarantee if the forums goes down or needs something it gets attention b/c they have so many users
<bodhi_zazen> and as we are using things such as openid, how would that work ?
<dinda> so if the project takes off and visibility is high, then quicker service might be  there
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: the sysadmins tend to have to approve additional modules to core packages (like drupal), I am sure moodle would be no different
<bodhi_zazen> So those would be the disadvantages of hosting with Canonical then
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: is the OpenID module part of the packaged moodle d/l i the repositories?  or does it come from elsewhere?
<bodhi_zazen> response time and Canonical would need to approve things such as openid and what not
<dinda> I know we already have the module running on our own Moodle server
<pleia2> welcome doctormo
<doctormo> Why am I always late
<bodhi_zazen> dinda: it comes from the moodle openid on Launchpad
 * doctormo hits his head against a brick wall
<cprofitt> welcome doctormo
 * dinda hands doctormo a special watch that runs "fast"
<cprofitt> I think we would like to know more about how the hosting would work
<cprofitt> I would have to bow to bodhi_zazen for what we 'need' in terms of running the Moodle server
<cprofitt> as he has done that for us skillfully
<Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
<dinda> cprofitt: perhaps setting up a meeting with you and other project sys admins with elmo would be best?
<Vantrax> welcome doctormo
<cprofitt> I am not really a sysadmin in the project
<Vantrax> the admin side is mostly bodhi, with a little of me
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, has been the sole person responsible
<cprofitt> it would have to include bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<cprofitt> I have added courses... but my admin has been all through the user interface or asking bodhi_zazen to raise upload limits
<doctormo> Did we define roles yet?
<dinda> upload limits - ugh, yes, had that issue as well
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, are you willing to discuss the issues with elmo for us?
<cprofitt> not yet doctormo
<cprofitt> waited for you to get here
<doctormo> Because I'd vote bodhi_zazen systems guy.
<dinda> bodhi_zazen: I'll introduce you to elmo via email and let you two chat via IRC then?
<doctormo> Thanks for waiting, I'm terribly sorry.
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, are you good with that?
<bodhi_zazen> That would be great dinda
<cprofitt> [AGREED] bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  bodhi_zazen will talk with elmo about Canonical hosting
<dinda> elmo was on the CC until all the current memberships expired
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
<dinda> and he's usually around freenode but located in London for time reference
<MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
<bodhi_zazen> it sounds as if in the long run we ill move to Canonical if we want learn.ubuntu.com ;)
<doctormo> cprofitt: add that as a task
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: was it decided to use an alternative domain name?
<cprofitt> I would like to move that we table the license discussion until we know more about the hosting and have some contact with the SFLS
<bodhi_zazen> no doctormo
<pleia2> doctormo: we have to for a while, canonical wants to see quality courses being developed before they give us the l.u.c
<bodhi_zazen> I think we are exploring the options and need more information to be honest
<doctormo> cprofitt: I would second with the addition that we put it as a task to contact the SFLS for advice.
 * cprofitt motions to table discussion on licensing until the hosting and SFLS have been contacted
<Vantrax> i agree cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> is there a consensus on licensing ?
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Table licensing discussion until more details are ironed out on hosting and SFLS have been contacted.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cprofitt> any more votes
<dinda> just noting that Canonical has no official recommendation on the topic. . but elmo did offer some advice
<doctormo> dinda: about licensing?
<bodhi_zazen> what was elmo's advice /
<dinda> under his ex-community council hat
<dinda> quoting from elmo:  IMO (with my (ex-)community council hat on), they can't use CC-BY-SA-NC and be 'learn.ubuntu.com' or an official Ubuntu project - it's not a Free (as defined by Ubuntu) license.
<dinda> I'd strongly recommend (we encourage them to/)they go with CC-BY-SA which is a Free license and the most appropriate for this sort of material.
<dinda> end quote
<cprofitt> any more votes
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cprofitt> any more votes
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can I get non commital show of hands for support for CC-BY-SA, and a different show of hands for NC avoidance?
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<dinda> +0
<DougieRichardson> +0
<cprofitt> doctormo, at this time no
<cprofitt> I would prefer to wait as we have decided until we have more information
<cprofitt> that piece is important
<cprofitt> but I think it is reasonable to wait until we have all the facts previously discussed
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Governance
<doctormo> cprofitt: I'm fairly certain that we know what we're doing, but I agree the SFLC should be contacted to be sure.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Governance
<cprofitt> not sure how added that topic
<cprofitt> who
<bodhi_zazen> Sounds like my topic ;)
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen go ahead
<bodhi_zazen> I would just like to suggest that we give some serious thought to team structure and governance
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> from my experience with the BT , these can become problematic
<bodhi_zazen> issues we have had on the BT -
<cprofitt> I would like to suggest that we build a draft page for people to place their ideas on how to improve the current structure
<bodhi_zazen> 1. people come and want to join the team.
<bodhi_zazen> everyone is happy, until said person starts acting out is some way or upsets people
<dinda> how long are the terms of the current project leaders?
<bodhi_zazen> so a process for joining team, and one for removing from the team as well
<cprofitt> we set them as two years dinda
<Vantrax> 2 years, same as other councils
<bodhi_zazen> that too dinda
<cprofitt> but that has not been 'published'
<bodhi_zazen> We need rules for things such as voting, simple majority, super majority ? etc, etc
<dinda> how long do you set the regular members LP membership for?
<bodhi_zazen> On the BT I use 1 year
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think that has been determined with this team
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, you are correct we have not done that
<dinda> was curious b/c I randomly decided for 1 year on the Texas Loco team
<cprofitt> we formed the board - and the board needs to set those things in motion
<doctormo> My input here would be: we have to make sure that our governance doesn't follow the service orentated pattern of the BT too closely, I believe what we are doing here is more like the production/product team which should follow a more typical software project structure.
<dinda> figured a year was long enough to see if they were going to hang around
<cprofitt> would you agree that having us set a draft page would be a good idea?
<pleia2> doctormo: +1
<pleia2> cprofitt: sounds good
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can the bot handle multiple options with instant runoff? :-D
<bodhi_zazen> I am merely suggesting we put some structure in place
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, does making a draft page work or should we discuss in email?
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: would you like to start on that ?
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, I agree we need structure... but we have to start the conversation and IRC is likely not the best medium for that
<bodhi_zazen> I do not have a strong opinion
<dinda> would love to see that draft page, the Doc Team ran into some issues when no one knew or understood the process for joining various levels of teams/internal team projects
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: +1, some structure, we have our council for decision making, that's a good start
<cprofitt> doctormo, it does not allow multiple values
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Add a draft page for team structure - how decision and votes will be done, membership, etc.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<doctormo> I'll add my thoughts there then
<DougieRichardson> _1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<DougieRichardson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<cprofitt> any more votes
<cprofitt> any more votes
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Draft page to be created for structure
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Draft page to be created for structure
<cprofitt> Vantrax, can you make the page?
<Vantrax> er yeah, later today, im mad busy at work atm
<Vantrax> Im stuck doing AD migration testing till this afternoon
<cprofitt> AD migration... fun
<cprofitt> I did that years ago...
<cprofitt> I can make the shell then...
<cprofitt> thank you for attending that is the end of our time...
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:03.
<cprofitt> #ubuntu-learning for more please
<dinda> thanks all!
<DougieRichardson> bye all
<cprofitt> night DougieRichardson
 * persia peers about
 * andrew_46 also peers about....
 * talsemgeest wishes andrew_46  luck in this channel as well
<luisbg> hello
<luisbg> how do I request a slot to have a meeting in this channel?
<luisbg> (an Ubuntu Studio team meeting)
<persia> luisbg, Just invite the calendar to an empty slot.
<persia> See http://fridge.ubuntu.com/events
<luisbg> through Google Calendar?
<luisbg> persia, you mean http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar :P
<persia> Right.  But the URL changed: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<persia> directions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
<luisbg> cool
<luisbg> thanks
<luisbg> brb (doing that)
<persia> No, I meant events.  My memory lags behind system changes.
 * persia laments a missing amachu, and wonders if anyone else wants to lead.
<TheMuso> Do we have enough people present?
 * popey wonders what meeting is on now
<amachu> Hi
<amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi
<TheMuso> Hi amachu.
<elky> oh. hi!
<TheMuso> Looks like we only have one membership applicant this week.
<persia> popey, Asia/Oceania
<popey> oh, not in the calendar :S
<andrew_46> That would be me
<amachu> TheMuso: yes
<persia> amachu, Could you sort out the calendar for next time?
<amachu> persia: sure
<persia> amachu, Thank you.
<amachu> so elky & lifeless are you people there?
<elky> hi still.
<amachu> elky: yep.. got you
<amachu> lifeless: ??
<lifeless> hai
<persia> That's all of us then
<lifeless> #start
<lifeless> #meeting start
<persia> it's startmeeting
<amachu> lifeless: yes
<lifeless> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:05. The chair is lifeless.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<amachu> andrew_46: Welcome
<andrew_46> amachu: Thanks
<luisbg> hello TheMuso
<luisbg> hello popey
<amachu> go ahead describing yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu
 * luisbg waves
<andrew_46> My name is Andrew Strong from the Blue Mountains, Australia. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/andrew.46. I am a Registered Nurse, Bachelor of Arts student and Linux enthusiast.
<persia> luisbg, best after the meeting
<andrew_46> I have been with Ubuntu since Dapper Drake and my major contribution to Ubuntu has been the writing and support of many tutorials over several years on the Ubuntu Forums. Several have been awarded 'Tutorial of the Week' by Forum's staff, details are on my wiki.
<andrew_46> I have also more recently become a keen member of the Beginners Team (BT) under bodhi.zazen where I work predominately providing support both on irc and the Ubuntu Forums for beginners to Ubuntu. Some members of the BT have been good enough to provide some very generous testimonials on my wiki, others are here to support my application. That's my 3+ lines :-).
<persia> andrew_46, Have you worked at all with the doc team?
<andrew_46> persia: I have not as yet, but I wold like to
<persia> How about with your local team, or is it all forums and IRC?
<andrew_46> I am a memebr of the Ausralian team but it is a little quiet
<andrew_46> So for the most part forums an irc
<lifeless> +1
<TheMuso> andrew_46: Why have you focused on the command-line with your tutorials?
<andrew_46> TheMuso: That is where my strength is and it is also an area that many need the most guidance
<TheMuso> Great!
<elky> andrew_46, what parts of irc do you help with?
<andrew_46> I work on #ubuntu, helping out with what I can
<andrew_46> I would be keen to work on other channels
<andrew_46> but the greatest need seems to be focussed on that one particular channel
<lifeless> its a hotspot
<TheMuso> My goodness, you manage with that firehose? :)
<elky> andrew_46, there is a localised help channel which could always use more people.
<amachu> andrew_46: have you joined hands with Aussie community  and have particiapted in events it conducts etc., (I read you are a Nurse in ICU, but still...)
<lifeless> amachu: the blue mountains are waaay out of the way
<andrew_46> amachu: I am a member of the Australian chapter but it is mostly mailing list support at the moment
<amachu> lifeless: his locality you mean?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> gotta remember australia is insanely huge
<andrew_46> lifeless: To tell the truth tSydney is 90 minutes by train :-)
<amachu> andrew_46: are there more people from your place?
 * TheMuso waves from Wentworth Falls. :)
 * lifeless from epping
<andrew_46> amachu: TheMuso appears to be 20 minutes from me :-)
<andrew_46> I actually did not realise so many so close :-)
 * TheMuso will be back in Sydney by the end of the year hopefully.
<elky> andrew_46, do you irc under other nicknames?
<elky> TheMuso, you said that last year :P
<andrew_46> elky: No, always as andrew_46
<TheMuso> elky: Yeah but its more realistic this year. :)
<amachu> you have contributing for quite sometime, infact few years.. and any reason for not having applied so far?
<andrew_46> or 47
<elky> andrew_46, ah, so you've really only been active in #ubuntu the past fortnight or so?
<amachu> andrew_46: how do you think Ubuntu membership, help you in your future activities?
<andrew_46> elky: I suspect much longer than that? Do the logs prove me wrong?
<andrew_46> amachu: It would be an indication of my commitment to Ubuntu for the long term
<elky> andrew_46, yeah, i can only find 20 or so lines of communication in there for your current nick for the past 2 years
<elky> most on the 19th of this month
<andrew_46> elky: My apologies then I have obviously made a major error
<TheMuso> Is there anybody here willing to speak for andrew_46's contributions to the community?
<Bodsda> o/
<leoquant> I support andrew for ubuntu membership
<Ash_R> as do i
<Bodsda> I fully support his application
<elky> Bodsda, you being bodhi.zazen?
<lukjad007> This is for andrew_46?
<Bodsda> elky: no
<lukjad007> Sorry, I was afk
<amachu> Bodsda: leoquant: about yourself..
<elky> ah, similar enough name, sorry
<TuxPurple> Bodsda, +1
<Bodsda> elky: no worries, happens all the time :)
<Bodsda> amachu: about ourselves?
<andrew_46> elky: bodhi.zazen has left a testimonial on my wiki
<amachu> yep.. looking at wiki now
<elky> Bodsda, how do you know the applicant ;)
<elky> andrew_46, yes, hence the confusion
<lukjad007> I too support the application of andrew_46 for membership.
<Bodsda> oh right, I know andrew_46 from the Ubuntu Beginners Team, and from his reputation on UF
<leoquant> i know andrew from his great howto's
<Bodsda> +1 leoquant
<persia> lukjad007, TuxPurple could you also share why you wish to support the applicant?
<Ash_R> i also support the application
<persia> Ash_R, You as well :(
<Bodsda> :)
<persia> s/:(/:)/
 * persia curses this silly keyboard layout
<lukjad007> I know andrew_46 for his great disposition. He is always helpful, and does his best to help anyone who needs it. I find that he is always ready to help. Most importantly, he always is upbeat, at least whenever I am around :)
<talsemgeest> Oops, missed my cue. I to support andrew_46 in his application
<persia> talsemgeest, why?
<Ash_R> i know andrew_46 both from ubuntu forums and ubuntu beginners teams.  his simple howto guides have provided help to so many.  as a member of the beginners team he is always willing to help when he can.
<amachu> am at +.5 now..
<Ash_R> he has shown long standing commitment to ubuntu and open source as a whole
<amachu> expecting little more, for a +1
<talsemgeest> persia: Because I know andrew_46 has contributed so much of his time and effort to the ubuntu community, and has helped me out considerably with my various projects
<elky> amachu, i'm also +0.5
<amachu> andrew_46: has done a good work.
<lukjad007> His Howtos are very good, and have gotten me through a few complex problems.
<lifeless> so thats +2 so far
<Joeb454> I'd also give a +1 for andrew_46
<TuxPurple> I know andrew_46 through ubuntu beginners team where he is famous for using slrn and ofcourse his ubuntuforums tutorial
<Bodsda> I would not be here using irssi if it was not for his guide
<lukjad007> And, on other occasions it has made my life a LOT easier
<elky> i'd like to see cooperation with the doc team. they really dont bite much
<Joeb454> he's consistantly helpful, good natured, and generally a nice guy. If you need help, he'll do his best to get you sorted :)
<andrew_46> elky: I agree, I should approach them
<amachu> elky: what you mentioned or some local activity would made it through my mind
<lukjad007> The reason it took me so long to add this last bit was because andrew_46 changed his avatar
<lukjad007> So I thought the people who helped me were to different people :)
<lukjad007> *two
<persia> OK.  I think that's enough expressions of support.
<amachu> persia: TheMuso: comments?
 * Bodsda gives one last GO andrew_46 !!
<andrew_46> Thanks guys :-)
<lukjad007> GO andrew_46!
<leoquant> go!
 * lukjad007 becomes quiet now.
 * Bodsda shuts up
<TheMuso> Ok, I think I am +0.5. Can't put a finger on why, probably not working with as many teams, i.e the doc team or the loco team channels to help with support.
<persia> I'd really like to see a higher hit count for the nick in #ubuntu, or some work with the doc team.
<lifeless> total of 3
<persia> The forums stuff is *great*, and there's a lot of support from others, including a number of current Members, but I just don't think it's complete.
<amachu> lifeless: i don't think we can sum up half counts ;-)
<lifeless> so I'm at +1 as I said earlier
<persia> I'm voting 0 for mostly mathematical reasons.
<lifeless> because of the forums stuff mainly
<lifeless> which I think shows sustained, significant contributions
<persia> andrew_46, I think you've done great, but I think you've a bit more to go on the significant side.  You've sustained down pat, and obviously lots of support from others.
<lifeless> I agree there are deeper integration with teams possible, but I don't think that that is a prerequisite
<lifeless> and I think we're making a mistake as a board if we start saying 'and team membership' :)
<andrew_46> persia: Thanks for your comments
<persia> I don't think team membership matters at all.  I'm just not convinced that work in the forums is very discoverable to those outside the forums.
<lifeless> persia: does it have to be? the forums are _huge_
<lifeless> and googlable
<persia> Hrm.  That's a good question, and perhaps enough to change my mind.
 * persia investigates the forums a bit more
<elky> persia, exactly. which is why i'd love to see him touch base with the docs team
<Bodsda> there have been questions put to forum staff before as to why forum contributions are not recognized as 'ubuntu contributions' I think the main response is usually 'it should be though'
 * Bodsda tries to find the thread
<persia> Bodsda, forum contributions are recognised as contributions, even by me.
<elky> Bodsda, they are, but howtos on the forums have a limited audience
<mc44> so does irc
<lifeless> elky: why do you say that elky ?
<Bodsda> persia: elky: Ok, well -- i wont look for the thread then :)
<lifeless> I find google on the forums is much faster than the online help we ship
<amachu> Bodsda: I would say it is, but at times not enough to make good judgements
<elky> lifeless, they're not peer reviewable, or if they are you end up with multiple versions often contradicting, often out of date. these dont make it into the official help areas where they're clearly needed if they were required in the first place
<Bodsda> amachu: I agree it needs to be 'significant' and shouldnt be the only conntribution, but as you can see, andrew contributes elsewhere as well... just my 2 pennies
<elky> lifeless, one can link to a howto from a forum really easy. why one needs to lock a howto into a one-person-editable situation is beyond me.
<lifeless> elky: pragmatically, the forums are more editable than help.ubuntu.com
<amachu> Bodsda: I agree, he is too close..
<lifeless> elky: its a different *idiom*, but actually very effective.
<Bodsda> amachu: too close? He has always been an incredibly invaluable member on irc to the ubuntu-beginners team.
<leoquant> i am most active on the dutch/belgium forum with over 10.000 posts but i was able to discover his work/howto's.....(on the ubuntuforums) and they were most helpful
<TheMuso> So have we all voted, or are things still up in the air?
<elky> lifeless, i find the forums less editable. i cant for instance fix something i see wrong in those posts. my correction must go through the OP who is more or less a gatekeeper, who may or may not maintain the post.
<leoquant> so his contributions are visible
<persia> Bodsda, You'll do better just to wait, as we debate ourselves.
<lifeless> persia is considering
<amachu> well, should we take up this as +1 from lifeless & others feeling something more is needed?
<elky> amachu, yep.
<Bodsda> persia: sorry, was just repsonding... il keep quiet now :)
<persia> I don't like it, but I've  become convinced the thing I don't like is forums policy, rather than anything else.
<lifeless> persia: so your vote is ?
<persia> The work is definitely sustained, and significant *within* the forums (don't have useful links to beginners team stuff, but that started in the forums)
<persia> I'll vote for membership.u
<amachu> persia: so a +1 from you
<lifeless> elky: I think you're effectively punishing contributions made via the forums because you prefer a different style of work.
<elky> lifeless, no. the contributions in the forum is why he got +0.5.
<amachu> persia: am I right?
<amachu> and TheMuso?
<TheMuso> I said +0.5 before, and I am still undecided as to whether I will change my mind, so I'll probably stick to +0.5 as well.
<persia> I'm punishing contributions to the forums because I think they aren't discoverable, not because I want a different style of work.
<lifeless> elky: you're saying you consider guide written in the forums less worthy of being 'significant' than guides written for e.g. help.ubuntu.com or the shipped docs
<lifeless> I think everyone has settled on their votes now
<lifeless> 2 +1's, the rest 0.5, AIUI
<elky> lifeless, i said i prefer them ont in the forums. not that i'm punishing him for them being there
<elky> lifeless, his dishonesty about irc is what lost him the other 0.5.
<lifeless> elky: kk
<andrew_46> elky: I apologise again, I am not sure what is happening there
<persia> lifeless, That summary matches my understanding.
<amachu> I don't think we could sum up .5 ;-)
<amachu> it +2 out of five present
<Joeb454> well technically if the other 3 gave 0.5 that's 3.5/5
<Joeb454> ;)
<lifeless> amachu: a 0.5 that isn't summable is 0. We should either not allow 0.5, or sum them.
<persia> Joeb454, Well, kinda, but kinda not.
<elky> amachu, 3. lifeless and persia went +1 iirc.
<Joeb454> persia: I'm just kidding, I know you can't have a 0.5, it wouldn't work
<amachu> elky: lifeless & persia?
<lifeless> elky: lifeless + persia = 2. themuso, amachu, elky @ 0.5 each would me another 1.5 :P
<persia> Which is enough.
<amachu> lifeless: we should take it up that way?
<elky> lifeless, yes, i was taking in the 'rounding down'
<lifeless> elky: ah right - good point
<amachu> ;-)
<elky> lifeless, or at least that's how i read it
<lifeless> amachu: I don't have a view, other than it should be consistent. Either we should stop saying 0.5 completely, or we should sum the 0.5's and round the total down
<amachu> may be I raise my + 0.5 to +1, since elky and Muso also recognises the contribution..
<Bodsda> yay
<elky> lifeless, if the .5 takes it over the required threshhold, why round?
<amachu> and these is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed
<elky> lifeless, i say call it as it is, really
<amachu> and there is a consensus among all of us that he has contributed
<lifeless> elky: 0.5 would allow exact ties, which the odd number of board members doesn't permit otherwise
<lifeless> elky: but sure, that would be fine with me too
<amachu> I raise my .5 to +1
<elky> lifeless, if it came to that, the .5
<elky> lifeless, if it came to that, the .5'ers would decide if they really meant .5
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> like I say, it would be fine with me too
<TheMuso> Ok, so where do we stand?
<amachu> elky: I wouldn't recommend a .5 to be considered and summed up, It has to be +1
<persia> I think we should permit 0.5s, to indicate a positive inclination, without being sure.
<TheMuso> persia: Agreed.
<persia> I'd not like to see us all vote that way, but I think it's useful.
<popey> The EMEA team uses +0 to do that persia
<lifeless> three +1 votes, two 0.5s
<popey> as opposed to -0
<persia> popey, Interesting idea.  We usually use -1, 0, 0.5, and 1
<lifeless> I prefer +0 as positive inclination. Its less confusing than a 0.5 that doesn't mean 0.5.
<popey> I don't think we have ever used 0.5
<elky> persia, same
<persia> Shall we do that moving forward, and use +0, -0 ?
 * TheMuso only uses 0.5 because oterhs do. I thought it was +0 originally
<TheMuso> Fine by me
<lifeless> aye
<amachu> fine. then I welcome andrew_46 :-)
<amachu> it that fine?
<TheMuso> Yeah
<andrew_46> amachu: Thank you!
<andrew_46> Thanks all
<Ash_R> congratulations andrew_46
<persia> It's what we voted.
<lukjad007> Congrats andrew_46!
<amachu> andrew_46: but would like to see more as we had felt..
<leoquant> congrats andrew
<Bodsda> w00t, go andrew_46 !!!
<talsemgeest> Congratulations andrew_46!!!
<andrew_46> Thanks all the BT here :-)
<popey> The luxury of one hour for one membership application :)
<amachu> and our best wishes..
<lifeless> #stopmeeting
<andrew_46> amachu: thanks you
<lifeless> #stop
<TheMuso> endmeeting
<popey> #endmeeting iirc
<TuxPurple> congrats andrew_46 :)
<lifeless> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:54.
<TheMuso> popey: Yeah, I always hope that such meetings are short, but they never are.
<lifeless> the opposite of start, is stop. Sheesh.
<popey> :)
<TheMuso> Thanks folks, gotta run.
<popey> lifeless: I think they accept patches ;)
<lifeless> popey: sure, I'll put it on the queue.
<lifeless> :)
<popey> :)
<amachu> is that all?
<lifeless> amachu: I think so; themuso just /parted
<amachu> any else for any one to raise?
<amachu> anything else for any one to raise?
<amachu> persia: elky: ?
<elky> nope
<persia> I still want to see a decision on adding more people.
<persia> 5 is far too small.
<amachu> persia: yes
<amachu> i have been asking for people to reply on list
<amachu> elky: lifeless: could you please do that?
<persia> Understood, but I don't think we've reached consensus, except that we didn't want to debate it here without the candidate present.
<lifeless> amachu: do what?
<amachu> lifeless: on adding new members to board
<persia> Or rather, on taking a decision on the pending nominees.
<amachu> persia: yes
<lifeless> I don't think I knew any of them
<lifeless> so I can't comment
<popey> You guys are taking on more members of the membership board?
<lifeless> popey: we're spread over a very wide time interval
<persia> popey, Yes.  We're at 5 members.  We're authorised to be at 9 by the CC.
<lifeless> popey: its 9pm for me now, and it gets worse in summer
<amachu> lifeless: there is one nomination from persia.
<popey> Understandable
<persia> amachu, There were two nominations last I looked.
<amachu> on list?
<persia> on list
 * persia double-checks
<lifeless> I don't know Zheng
<amachu> persia: on list?
<lifeless> amachu: will you be doing minutes?
<amachu> lifeless: you can assess, going through the wiki etc.,
<amachu> lifeless: on the list?
<lifeless> amachu: yes
<lifeless> I see both candidates
<lifeless> I will do more reading this week
<amachu> i will do it. but please make it a point to reply
<amachu> I will add it to agena next time.. and we will take it up..
<amachu> it will help the meeting to be conducted once in a week again
<amachu> elky: lifeless: persia: will that be fine
<persia> I don't think we want to return to that until we can reach 8-9 members
<amachu> persia: yes
<persia> But I'd be happy to conclude discussions on the nominees sooner.
<amachu> sure, I will post minutes to the list, and lets make it a point to give our feedback
<amachu> persia: will that be fine
<persia> amachu, fine by me.
<amachu> elky: ?
<amachu> and with you lifeless?
<lifeless> ? sorry, whats the question
<amachu> lifeless: that i make minutes of meeting and we decide it soon on new nominations
<lifeless> yes please and sure (both already agreed to above :P)
<amachu> ok
<amachu> Thank you every one for participating
<persia> Next meeting 7th July?
<ajmitch> 9 members on the board would make voting & discussion interesting
<amachu> our next meeting will be on 14 July 09
<elky> amachu, ack on list stuff.
<persia> ajmitch, If we reach that point, we plan to have 2 6-member meetings, at 9:00 and 15:00 UTC.
<amachu> elky:  thank you
<persia> amachu, OK.  Thanks for the clarification.
<ajmitch> persia: that sounds reasonable
<ajmitch> not that I should need to be attending anytime soon
<persia> ajmitch, The issue is that by the time amachu finishes the workday, you're probably thinking you ought to have been in bed (and the moreso in your Summer)
 * mathiaz waves
<sommer> o//
<Spike1506> \o
 * stgraber waves
<ttx_> \o/
<alex_muntada> o/
<mathiaz> let's get the Ubuntu Server team meeting started
<dendrobates> o/
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090616
<zul> heyllo
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] DRBD
<MootBot> New Topic:  DRBD
<mathiaz> I think I saw ivoks email about using dkms for drbd
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> I don't remember if there was any reply
<zul> on the kernel list there was, they are fine with it moving to dkms
<mathiaz> right - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006067.html
<mathiaz> ok: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-June/006121.html
<mathiaz> ^^ so it seems that ivoks is working on a dkms version of drbd
<mathiaz> anything else to report on the DRBD front
<mathiaz> ?
 * RoAkSoAx says hello
<zul> not that I know of
<mathiaz> ivoks isn't around so he can't give an update on his packaging work
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to work on providing DRBD package using dkms
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Hadoop packaging
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hadoop packaging
<mathiaz> ttx_: ^^
<ttx_> o/
<mathiaz> ttx_: did you have sometime to look at the hadoop packages?
<ttx_> Yes. Let me gather my notes
<ttx_> Looking at their source package, the main issue is that it builds hadoop from source but source contains binary JARs
<ttx_> (that are used at compile-time and then copied to the binary packages)
<ttx_> In order to be debian-compliant those JARs first need to be packaged separately, and then hadoop must properly build-depend and runtime-depend on them.
<ttx_> that's a classic issue with java libraries. usually they build from "source and other binary jars"
<ttx_> There are a few other minor issues with the packaging
<mathiaz> ttx_: is there a process to fix this "classic" issue?
<ttx_> Like a cloudera-specific patchsystem, Hard dependency on sun-java6-*
<ttx_> mathiaz: yes, package and package again
<ttx_> mathiaz: Basically you map all the missing deps and start pumping out packages
<mathiaz> ttx_: do you have list of jars that should be packaged separatly?
<mathiaz> ttx_: do you have a list of these missing deps?
<ttx_> jets3t kfs xmlenc JavaXMLBuilder
<ttx_> also they want commons-cli 2.0 -> we have 1.1
<ttx_> so that needs to be doublechecked for compat
<ttx_> if not compatible, add commons-cli-2.0 to the mix
<mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so the first step to move things forward would be to package these libraries
<ttx_> note that the dependency analysis was made from Hadoop project
<ttx_> while the packaging issues were done by looking at Cloudera packaging
<ttx_> and Hadoop-Cloudera might bring some other deps
<ttx_> since it's Hadoop++
<mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the cloudera packaging bits?
<mathiaz> ttx_: what's the license of the Hadoop-Cloudera?
<ttx_> I think it's ASL-2, let me doublecheck
<ttx_> Hard to tell from the packaging, patch is simply shipped as uuencode in debian/
<ttx_> yes, ASL-2
<mathiaz> ttx_: and the rest of the debian/ content is covered by ASL-2?
<ttx_> "This distribution is Copyright 2009, Cloudera, Inc. and is licensed under
<ttx_> the Apache 2.0 License as above. See http://cloudera.com/distribution"
<mathiaz> ttx_: ok - so that means the packaging work could be based on cloudera packages.
<ttx_> mathiaz: sure. It might even be done in collaboration with Cloudera
<mathiaz> ttx_: could you write down your notes in a wiki page (is there a spec?) and flush out the first steps to be taken to move things forward?
<ttx_> mathiaz: I fear I won't have time to drive this. But I can shove my notes in a wikipage
<mathiaz> ttx_: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-hadoop
<mathiaz> ttx_: sure - your notes are enough
<ttx_> ok, action me on tis
<mathiaz> ttx_: if someone wants to help out, they will know where to start
<ttx_> this, even
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx_ to write down his hadoop analysis in a wiki page
<mathiaz> Anything else related hadoop?
<ttx_> nothing from me
<mathiaz> great - let's move on  then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
<MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
<mathiaz> We're still merging packages from Debian
<mathiaz> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<mathiaz> ^^ shows 68 outstanding merges as of now
<mathiaz> while https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html lists 144 outsanding merges
<mathiaz> so there is still some work to be done on that front
<mathiaz> help is welcome
<mjeanson> I could give a hand, if there is something specific to be done
<mathiaz> mjeanson: I usually publish a list of easy-merges to be done
<mathiaz> mjeanson: on the ServerTeam roadmap
<jmdault> mathiaz: I'd like to help on Asterisk, but I'm new to ServerTeam
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<alex_muntada> I think that vsftpd and amavisd-new have been already merged
<stgraber> jmdault as done a package of the latest stable release of asterisk (!= 1.6) using dkms
<alex_muntada> asterisk is still pending, AFAICS
<stgraber> it's currently in our PPA
<mathiaz> alex_muntada: if so, feel free to update the wiki page
<jmdault> I'm not sure about the best Asterisk version though
<stgraber> that could be adapted to 1.6 I guess if we want to ship 1.6
<jmdault> The official "stable" Asterisk version is 1.4
<mathiaz> what's the current version of asterisk in debian?
<jmdault> Debian has 1.4.21 version (OLD!)
<stgraber> 1.6 recently reached unstable
<jmdault> and 1.6.1 (unstable)
<mathiaz> ok - so we're interested in the version in unstable
<mathiaz> what's the difference between unstable and the PPA version?
<jmdault> And Debian Asterisk 1.6 has no support for MySQL, mp3, oh323...
<stgraber> the PPA is the latest stable release (1.4), unstable has asterisk's next release 1.6
<jmdault> mathiaz: the PPA version is an updated version of the stable release
<jmdault> I also packaged the Asterisk Gui
<jmdault> and made DKMS modules for the drivers (instead of debian's module-assistant)
<jmdault> It's made to help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - are you in touch with the Debian maintainer team?
<mathiaz> jmdault: what's their position on using dkms?
<jmdault> mathiaz: no, as I said, I'm a fairly new Ubuntu adept
<mathiaz> also what's the time frame for upstream 1.6 release? Does it make sense to try to target 1.6 for karmic?
<jmdault> I'm an ex Mandriva developer btw ;-)
<stgraber> jmdault: you should probably contact the Debian VOIP team and see why they chose 1.6 instead of going stable
<ttx_> jmdault: we love ex-Mandriva developers.
<mathiaz> jmdault: great - we've all started somewhere.
<ttx_> we love all French.
<mathiaz> jmdault: we're here to help you out
<jmdault> stgraber: yes, I was planning to to that. I have two asterisk servers to install this week, however ;-)
<jmdault> I'll contact Debian VoIP team, and Digium as well, to know their plans
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - so to move thing forward, the question is which version makes most sense for karmic
<mathiaz> jmdault: 1.6 (unstable) or 1.4?
<mathiaz> jmdault: you don't need to give an answer now
<mathiaz> jmdault: we've got until FeatureFreeze to decide
<jmdault> mathiaz: good
<mathiaz> jmdault: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<mathiaz> jmdault: August 17th
<mathiaz> jmdault: August *27th*
<mathiaz> jmdault: the sooner the better though - especially for such a big piece of code
<jmdault> mathiaz: yes, I'll do that ASAP
<mathiaz> jmdault: you may also have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
<jmdault> It's not such a big piece of code
<mathiaz> jmdault: as it seems to be a rather old spec and may not be up-to-date
<jmdault> the DAHDI interface works with 1.4 or 1.6
<jmdault> the gui, voice prompts as well
<stgraber> got to go now, though mjeanson- has IRC on his cell :)
<mathiaz> jmdault: you may have some other idea on improving the state of asterisk in ubuntu (and debian)
<jmdault> mathiaz: is Fabian nearby?
<mathiaz> jmdault: could you report back next week on which version of asterisk should be in karmic?
<jmdault> Yes, I report the version next week
<mathiaz> [ACTION] jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to research which version of asterisk should be in karmic
<mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
<mathiaz> anything else on the topic of asterisk?
<jmdault> one issue
<jmdault> binary drivers
<jmdault> the dfsg version removes code for the echo canceller
<jmdault> the driver, at build time, contacts digium to download a firmware
<jmdault> the "build time" here, is either module-assistant, or dkms
<mathiaz> jmdault: interesting. we'll have to look into that.
<jmdault> Absolutely no proprietary code will be shipped in the .debs
<mathiaz> jmdault: could you follow up on the ubuntu-server@ ml?
<jmdault> will do
<mathiaz> jmdault: great - thanks
<mathiaz> let's move on
<jmdault> great
<mathiaz> anything else related to last week minutes?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss idea to add ubuntu-tips on motd
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
<nijaba> Motd currently displays 7 lines of legal warning that takes up usefull space.
<nijaba> It is beleived that displaying this information is only
<nijaba> necessary once per admin user.
<nijaba> This could be done by only displaying this if there is no ~/.legal_seen file and add it once displayed.
<nijaba> Kirkland has already implemented it, we are waiting for legal to approve the change.
<nijaba> Given the reclaimed extra space, and in order to provide visibility to new or important features in Ubuntu Server Edition, we could add an ubuntu-tips package, installed by default, that would randomly display 2 lines of text at the end of the motd coming from a list of tips placed in a given directory.
<nijaba> examples:
<nijaba> To learn more about Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud go to:
<nijaba> http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud
<nijaba> Did you know that you can get useful notifications displayed at the
<nijaba> bottom of the terminal by using the byobu package?
<nijaba> These tips would be defined and reviewed by the community, on a wiki page
<nijaba> What would you think of this?
 * sommer +1
<alex_muntada> +1
<zul> -1
<ttx_> -1
<mathiaz> nijaba: like a fortune in the motd?
<mathiaz> zul: ttx_: why?
<zul> so it would be like clippy for linux?
<nijaba> mathiaz: that's the idea, yes
<nijaba> zul: huh, no, since it would be only displayed once, at login, in a very non obtrusive fashion
<ttx_> 1/ I'm all for recovering that space, but not to waste it again. 2/ I expect difficulties on finding tiops that make sense for everyone
<ttx_> but as always, I can be convinced otherwise :)
<mathiaz> nijaba already gave two examples of tips
<ttx_> I just anticipate flamefests on tip contents
<zul> i think you would get complaints like those of landscape
<mathiaz> ttx_: would these two be ok for you?
<ttx_> for not a lot to gain
<nijaba> ttx_: I think yo anticipate too much :)
<sommer> would you be able to disable the tips?
<mathiaz> zul: true - the complain about landscape were about the commercial aspect of it
<ttx_> What would be the guidelines to make a good tip ? Community approval on said wikipage ?
<nijaba> ttx_: the issue we are trying to solve: inform users of what's new in the ubuntu while we know most do not read release notes
<zul> besides i dont think anyone would look at it either
<mathiaz> ttx_: sounds like a good plan
 * nijaba agrees
<kirkland> i vote +0, i wouldn't mind an ubuntu-tips package that added tips to the motd, but until we see the contents of this tips database, i don't think it should be in the default server install
<mathiaz> another source of tip could be something similar to the package of day
<kirkland> however, seeing the contents of ubuntu-tips, the quality and relevance, etc, i think this could become a good thing
<ttx_> I tend to agree with kirkland here
<mathiaz> right - what would be the minimum number of tips availble before we move on?
 * nijaba propose to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.  I'll send the url to the ml and ask for other input
<zul> i just dont see what you gain from it though
<nijaba> zul: visibility of new features that have been brought in
<mathiaz> nijaba: seems like a first step in the direction
<kirkland> nijaba: i suggest you throw it into a bzr tree, and a small package, put it in your ppa
<alex_muntada> there is already fortunes-debian-hints which may contain some useful tips
<mathiaz> zul: let's see what kind of tips are found and we can discuss the relevant of including them once we'got them
<zul> mathiaz: fine with me.
<ttx_> maybe I'm a little too careful :)
<mathiaz> alex_muntada: good suggestions
<mathiaz> nijaba: could you start a wiki page?
<nijaba> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to start a wiki page with proposed 2 liners.
<mathiaz> nijaba: and send the url to the ubuntu-server@ ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: will do
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to send the url to the ubuntu-server@ and ask for other input
<dendrobates> my two cents: we are trying to produce a enterprise level product.
<mathiaz> anything else on this subject?
<dendrobates> and this feels consumer-like.
<dendrobates> most people using ubuntu server are sys admins and will not want this feature.
<dendrobates> but, it might be useful to some.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: may be - so we should make sure it's easy to disable it
<dendrobates> no, we should make it optional to begin with.
<dendrobates> why annoy the many to help the few.
<mathiaz> I think we should first come up with the list of tips and we can discuss then the best to integrate it afterwards
<mathiaz> all right - let's move on
<mathiaz> as we're running out of time
<mathiaz> I'll skip the open discussion item
<mathiaz> and jump straight to the last item (most important)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
<sommer> sure
<alex_muntada> ok
<jmdault> ok
<zul> maybe
<zul> i mean yes
<ttx_> wfm
<mathiaz> ok - great - thanks all for attending
<mathiaz> go wild on the last round of merges
<mathiaz> and see you all on #ubuntu-server or next week, same time, same place
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.
<sommer> later all
 * manjo waves
<bjf> o/
 * cooloney stands up
 * lieb looks about
 * smb looks at his watch
 * ogasawara waves
 * apw enters stage left
<smb> Ok, seems like time to begin
<smb> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is smb.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<smb> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
<smb> * rtg confer with the platform team about how to upgrade from Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
 * jjohansen waves
<rtg_> smb: I think its done. I've uploaded thenew flavours
<smb> ok
<smb> * rtg confer with the installer team about choosing the right i386 kernel
<rtg_> done as well
<smb> * ogasawara to look at /staging drivers in hwdb
<ogasawara> smb: done, email sent to kernel-team ml.  but action me with getting the hwdb script pushed to buildscripts.git.  I first need to check with abel if the new api is available.
<rtg_> final details may be pending, depends on CD space
<smb> I think that was done as well
<smb> And finally
<smb> * rtg and apw kernel boot msg cleanup
<rtg_> in progress
<rtg_> or rather, no progress
<smb> Ok, so I'll keep that on the list
<smb> On next to my dump
<apw> yeah we need to put a plan together for that, not had a chance
<smb> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security, in process)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security, in process)
<smb>             2.6.24-24.54 (proposed)[18] with 0/11 verifications!
<smb>             LRM 2.6.24.18-24.1 (proposed) [18] with 1/1 verifications. OK
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security, in process)
<smb>             2.6.27-14.34 (proposed)[18] 3/24 verifications!
<smb>             LBM 2.6.27-14.17 (proposed)[8] with 1/2 verifications
<smb>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[18] with 2/2 verifications. OK
<smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security, in process)
<smb>             No proposed package pending.
<apw> [ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
<smb> Currently Hardy and Intrepid are a bit of a problem as not too much testing/verifications get in
<smb> [ACTION] ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to push the hwdb scripts to the buildscripts git repo
<smb> apw,  :-P
<apw> nasty bot
<smb> [TOPIC] Karmic Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status
<manjo> smb, will there be a new ISO cut for jaunty server edition ?
<smb> Usually for non-LTS there are no new ISOs. I am not sure server is different
<apw> karmic is still waiting on the .31-rc1 release when the merge window is closed.  updates for the flavours and some config stuff has gone in and been released
<rtg_> Karmic - new i386 flavours generic-pae in last upload. dropped i386 server.
<smb> slangasek, rtg_ Is that true?
<rtg_> smb: AFAIK
<smb> Ok
<rtg_> i.e., no new CDs for non-LTS releases
<manjo> rtg_, we might have to rethink server editions
<manjo> coz of new HW enable-ment
<apw> on the KMS stuff the GEM/PAE issues appear resolved, with the changes merged already to mainline
<amitk> manjo: and even for LTS they are at pre-defined a milestone intervals (8.04.1, 8.04.2, etc.)
<rtg_> manjo: its just a matter of timing
<manjo> k
<apw> most things otherwise seem to be progressing
<slangasek> smb: there will not be a new ISO for jaunty server; this SRU would be of benefit to netboot only
<rtg_> smb: I think thats all the important stuff for Karmic
<smb> rtg_, Ok thanks
<slangasek> i.e., yes, non-LTS releases don't get new ISOs
<smb> slangasek, Thanks too for the clarification
<smb> slangasek, I guess if there are special needs you would be the authority to ask?
<rtg_> slangasek is our special needs guy :)
<manjo> slangasek, especially if the install does not work
<manjo> slangasek, due to missing drivers etc
<smb> manjo, But I guess you should put that offline
<smb> [TOPIC] ARM Tree
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree
<manjo> ok
<bjf> Still working on babbage 1 patches. I've asked for help from Amit.
<bjf> Don't have a feel, right now, when the babbage 1 changes will be finished but that's all I'm working on
<bjf> Given the pain to go to .30, am worried about the pain to go to .31
<apw> where are they coming from?
<amitk> freescale
<apw> sorry what level are they rebasing from
<amitk> for 2.6.28
<amitk> *from
<amitk> jaunty kernel
<smb> Seems to be it?
<bjf> i'm done
<apw> much of the delta for .31 will arrive next week when the merge window closes
<amitk> done here
<smb> Probably for the next topic there is also not that much
<smb> [TOPIC] Netbook Trees
<MootBot> New Topic:  Netbook Trees
<apw> i saw some stuff go out at the end of last week.  some fixes cking pushed
<apw> the patch review was nearly done i think but not yet complete
<apw> thats all i know
<smb> Ok, the rest will wait till next week
<cking> not much activity this week on that
<smb> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
<smb> * Regressions
<awe> wait...
<awe> i have a netbook question...
<smb> awe, ok, shoot
<awe> the new netbook branch was created for jaunty...
<awe> yet we're thinking karmic will be used
<awe> instead...
<awe> is there an eta for a netbook branch for karmic?
<apw> yes, we made it then you said it was likely you might use karmic
<rtg_> awe: so, we'll likely do the same for karmic
<apw> the last thing we were told there was no patches needed on karmic?
<awe> ok
<apw> but if you have them then we would do the same there, it'd be quicker this time now its done one
<apw> once
<awe> right now true
<awe> ie. we have no patches currently
<rtg_> awe: besides, we should wait until karmic settles before having to start the rebase treadmill
<awe> rtg_: ok
<awe> then maybe we should do at least 1 rel on the jaunty netbook branch?
<apw> awe sounds liek we should take this offline and figure out what you need
<awe> apw: ok
<cking> I'd say so.
<apw> smb, action us
<smb> [ACTION] apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw, awe, cking decide on netbook relase for Jaunty
<apw> ta
<awe> cool.  thanks
<ogasawara> smb:  back to regressions, I added 2 regression-release and 2 regression-potential bugs to the list this week.  As usual, you and apw have them assigned.
<smb> Ok, so ogasawara I guess you... do :)
<ogasawara> today's bug day stats are as follows:
<smb> Ok, yep. So
<smb> * Bug Day Report
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
<ogasawara> Fix Released    4 (â4)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   30 (â30)
<ogasawara> Invalid 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  194 (â29)
<ogasawara> Triaged 26 (â4)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   21 (â1)
<ogasawara> New 22 (â3)
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
<ogasawara> Fix Released    0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Invalid 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Triaged 46 (â4)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> New 0 (â0)
<smb> Ok, thanks for the update
<apw> a bit early to have anything interesting on the bug day
<ogasawara> apw: yup, but a good start so far
<smb> Yeah, I likely will get to it rather tomorrow
<apw> i think thats likely for a number of people as we have travellers and busy people
<bjf> no-one should be surprised but I'm not doing bug day until the babbage changes are done
<smb> Understandable
<manjo> ogasawara, how is the community responds to bug day ?
<cking> and I'm snowed by other panic work today
<ogasawara> manjo: andres still is contributing each time
<smb> Thanks Andres
<ogasawara> manjo: unfortunately we haven't been able to gather more
<apw> we need a plan on how to get more community involvement in triage etc
<apw> ogasawara, how is the arsenal working out, is it deployed fully yet?
<ogasawara> apw: almost, still tweaking the processing of new bugs - I keep hitting corner cases
<apw> when are we expecting to call it 'ready'?
<ogasawara> apw: hoping by next week, I want to send an email when it's running
<cooloney> apw, i plan to advise this bug day event in our Chinese kernel mail list and some LUG mail list
<manjo> ogasawara, you think we can get jono's help in getting a word out to the community ?
<apw> cooloney, sounds good
<cooloney> i set some bugs to "won't fix" before I left home
<ogasawara> manjo: yes, I'll make a note to send them an email
<ogasawara> smb: maybe action me for sending email to community team
 * jono looks up :)
<smb> [ACTION] ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara send mail to jono about getting comunity help
<jono> I will wait for the mail :)
<jono> happy to help!
<apw> :)
<smb> :)
<manjo> jono u rock man
<jono> manjo, no, you rock :)
<cooloney> thanks jono
<jono> np :)
<smb> Ok, before we rock the place. More for that?
<cooloney> guys, can we talk about android tree here?
<smb> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<smb> cooloney, Yep
<cooloney> smb, coolio
<cooloney> as you know, i sent out an android tree email
<cooloney> anybody has comments?
<apw> i think your basic plan sounded reasonable
<apw> more detail than that is probabally something for a more focused forum
<apw> as a general comment the work going on for allowing newer kernels no older
<apw> releases should give you a lot of what you need to allow more than one kernel type to exist
<manjo> I hear that google will not endorse andriod for netbooks... anyone hear this rumor ?
<cooloney> apw, i will setup a tree firstly and add debian directory as bjf said
<cooloney> manjo, no idea about that.
<apw> yep sounds reasonable, i have done some of that for the mainline builds, so i can help out there
<smb> Ok, guess the rest can be done offline
<smb> Anything else for open discussion?
<cooloney> apw, thanks, i plan to do it soon, so will need you guys help later
 * smb looks at the silence
<manjo> smb, u chairing next meeting ?
<smb> [TOPIC] Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wheel of Duty (Next Meeting Chair)
<smb> I guess you just volunteered...
 * manjo looks around to see who is "you"
<smb> manjo, The only one standing :)
<bjf> I have no problem doing it
 * apw calls that a plan
<smb> bjf, Ok, thanks
<smb> So bjf will be next chair
<smb> thanks all
<bjf> l8r
<smb> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:34.
 * greg-g yawns
 * boredandblogging throws cold water on greg-g
<czajkowski> aww did you wake him
<czajkowski> :p
<greg-g> hey now, no hazing the new members!
<nhandler> Before the meeting begins, I would like to congratulate the new members of the Americas Regional Membership Board
<beuno> :)
<greg-g> thank you nhandler
<kiko> heh
<boredandblogging> hello
<bratsche> Hi.
<zehrique> hi, there!
<pleia2> ok folks, meeting time :)
<kiko> yay
<bratsche> :)
<pleia2> kiko: you're up! intorduce yourself, give links to your pages :)
<kiko> hello there
<kiko> I'm kiko
<kiko> I run the Launchpad project for Canonical
<kiko> I am also an occasional contributor to Ubuntu -- both in QA, in working with upstream and in fixing some minor bugs
<kiko> let me dig up some links to allow people to review me
<kiko> or people can ask me questions while I paste
<Nafallo> I've heard of this guy named kiko...
<bratsche> heh
<nhandler> While he is doing that, I would like to say that kiko has been very helpful with all Launchpad related issues that people in the community have had. He has also helped implement several of the ideas that have come from the community.
<pleia2> kiko: future plans?
<kiko> most of my contributing is indirectly through Launchpad
<ajmitch> Nafallo: funnily enough, so have I :)
<jpds> I recall meeting him three times... +1 from me!
<kiko> but I have been to multiple UDS sessions and discussed features and their execution plans
<kiko> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syncropated/+bug/200357
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 200357 in syncropated "syncropated crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Undecided,Fix released]
<kiko> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/208405
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 208405 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] iscan" [Wishlist,In progress]
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/~kiko
<nhandler> kiko: Any plans to go the MOTU route in the future?
<kiko> nhandler, I wish I had enough time to work on any /launchpad/ code, let alone Ubuntu code
<kiko> if that situation ever changes
<kiko> then yeah, I'd definitely like it
<greg-g> kiko: just for the record, how long have you been involved with Launchpad?
<kiko> greg-g, I joined the team in January 2005
<effie_jayx> alright, ready to vote
<boredandblogging> +1
<greg-g> +1 for me for the continued commitment to the project and obvious contributions made in the past.
<kiko> I'll be around this community for a long time still
<pleia2> +1 excellent work kiko :)
<beuno> +1 - I've seen kiko do a lot of work to improve Ubuntu through Launchpad, through writing How To's, and participating in UDS discussions
<kiko> Canonical or none
<Nafallo> kiko: was there even a launchpad before you? ;-)
<Technoviking> +1 here
<pedro_> +1 from here
<effie_jayx> +1
<zehrique> +1
<kiko> Nafallo, heh, there was actually -- but not publically visible apart from Rosetta and some of the Code imports stuff
<beuno> and kiko can add himself to the ~ubuntumembers team  :p
<pleia2> kiko: congrats! welcome :)
<greg-g> beuno: :)
<pedro_> lol
<effie_jayx> kiko: it's about time
<kiko> heh
<kiko> thanks :)
<greg-g> welcome, kiko
<Nafallo> yay! finally kiko can have kiko@ubuntu.com! :-D
<nhandler> Congratulations kiko !
<kiko> wooo
<kiko> thanks guys
<zehrique> congratulations, kiko!
<bratsche> woot!
<kiko> I can't believe I made it! and at midnight of my first day of vacation
<pleia2> :)
<bratsche> haha
<kiko> heh
<bratsche> Now your vacation begins. :)
<beuno> kiko, enjoy your vacation
<Nafallo> kiko: so those sets of flipflops we talked about... ;-)
<pleia2> zehrique: you're up :)
<ajmitch> kiko: well done :)
<kiko> woo!
<pleia2> zehrique: you about?
<pleia2> ok, we'll move on the the next
<zehrique> Well, wiki page is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenriquePMachado
<pleia2> oh hey :)
<zehrique> My profile on launchpad is at: https://edge.launchpad.net/~zehrique
 * nixternal is here
<pleia2> zehrique: can you give us a quick introduction?
<zehrique> If you notice, my karma has decreased because of that implementation done this year. But I'm still contributing with translations.
<zehrique> I make part of the team of translators/reviewers for pt_BR on Ubuntu
<zehrique> When I have free time, I use to give support on the #ubuntu-br channel, here on freenode.
<zehrique> I am a GNOME translator into the pt_BR since may/2008 and got a reviewer level since january/2009.
<zehrique> I am official translator for LXDE Desktop Environment and admin of the main project site and wiki. I'm moderator for the Portuguese section of the LXDE Forum too.
<pleia2> wow, great :)
<zehrique> Was invited to make part of Lubuntu team.
<pleia2> zehrique: how long have you been working with Ubuntu? (I see you started using it with 5.04)
<zehrique> Yes! I've been working with it since 6.06 version. But contributing since 8.04 version.
<greg-g> zehrique: I assume part of your future plans is to continue with translations, but do you see yourself changing focus in the future?
<beuno> zehrique, what do you feel you still want to accomplish?
<zehrique> Well, now I'm working with Webdevelopment. If in the near future I could help in this area, I'll be very glad to help.
 * nixternal has love now, I see 'kubuntu-docs' translations \o/
<nixternal> wow, you are an all around translator it seems, not just GNOME and LXDE...awesome!
<zehrique> Well, I am in love with translations. :P
<zehrique> But coding is one of my plans too.
<beuno> zehrique, how involved are you in your LoCo team?
<nixternal> I can see :)  that is awesome and a part of the reason that *buntu rocks like it does...all I can say there is "Thank You"
<nixternal> I have a soft spot in my heart for translators :)
<zehrique> Thanks, nixternal
<greg-g> zehrique: do you have any ideas of how the translation process could be improved? (note: I don't have any experience in that area)
<zehrique> Well, I think that the process is good and by now I think it may not be changed.
<greg-g> zehrique: ok, I was just curious. :) thanks
 * kiko waves -- gotta skip out for the night
<pleia2> excellent translations work, zehrique :) +1
<beuno> +1 here as well. Translations rock Ubuntu.
<greg-g> +1
<Technoviking> +1
<zehrique> Thanks
<nixternal> +1
<nhandler> Congratulations zehrique !
<bratsche> woot, congrats zehrique!
<zehrique> Woooah! Thanks, guys! :)
<zehrique> I' so proud of being a member of Ubuntu Community!
<beuno> who's next?   kdub?
<kdub> hello everyone :)
<beuno> kdub, hold on a sec
<beuno> we need one more vote  :)
<zehrique> ok
<nixternal> looks like we have quorum anyways, we can probably move on
<pedro_> +1 from here too , congrats zehrique
<pleia2> congrats zehrique :)
<greg-g> ok, now we can move on to kdub :)
<kdub> alright, cool
<kdub> so i'm kdub/ Kevin DuBois
<kdub> wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinDuBois
<kdub> i'm a coder/blogger
<kdub> i've contributed to compiz, ffmpeg, a bit to vlc
<kdub> i'm currently working a lot with ffmpeg for the summer of code
<zehrique> good
<kdub> but i'm also easily distracted, and have a lot of little projects like http://kdubois.net/?p=408
<beuno> kdub, you have an impressive list of contributions to open source projects
<kdub> or http://kdubois.net/?p=319
<beuno> could you tell us a little but about the ubuntu-specific things you've done?
<kdub> thanks beuno
<kdub> well, i can package things
<pedro_> kdub: any plans on becoming part of the MOTU team?
<kdub> and i've given a speech to a group in michigan about ubuntu before
<kdub> pedro_: i currently have more interest in the kernel team, actually
<boredandblogging> kdub: active in the LoCo?
<kdub> i chat in the irc room a fair amount
<greg-g> I can verify that ;)
<kdub> thanks greg-g :P
<greg-g> kdub: I really like all of your upstream work, it definitely helps make the floss world better
<beuno> kdub, what do you plan to work on in the future?
<nixternal> jcastro or any other michigan freakz in here for some testimonials?
<kdub> i really hope to move into kernel work, or deeper X server work
<beuno> kdub, so you're keen on continuing to do upstream work?
<boredandblogging> ready to vote?
<kdub> beuno: yes, and i usually package things my stable things to distribute them
<pleia2> kdub: I think you're certainly on the right track, but I'd really like to see you excel in some of the more Ubuntu-specific work that you have planned :)
<beuno> so, I'm +0. It's hard to vote, because of all the awesome work kdub's done, but I think he still needs to do some more work in Ubuntu, maybe packaging or working with the Ubuntu kernel team
<boredandblogging> agree with pleia2, good work upstream, but more Ubuntu related work would be good
<greg-g> kdub: I agree with pleia2, you definitely are making great contributions to FLOSS, but adding in more Ubuntu stuff would be great. +0 but I want to see you back here at the end of the summer! :)
<greg-g> there is a +0 hidden above from me
<pleia2> same +0
<nixternal> I would like to see more bug work due to the development background, but from having known kdub for a bit and working with him during packaging, and knowing his personality, I will give a +1
<pedro_> it's same opinion here, I'd love to see more involvement on the Ubuntu community and I'm looking forward for your work on the kernel team but for now +0
<Technoviking> +0 for me also
<nixternal> kdub: doesn't look like you will make this time around, but dude I will work with you and so will the michigan folks to get you there...cool?
<kdub> well, thanks nixternal , sounds good
<nixternal> groovy dude
<pleia2> mdeslaur: you're up!
<mdeslaur> oh, cool :)
<bratsche> kdub: If you're interested in getting involved in some development tasks in Ubuntu, check out the "Death by 100 Papercuts" project.. it would be great to have someone of your expertise hacking in there.
<mdeslaur> Hi everyone, I'm Marc Deslauriers
<nixternal> bratsche: great point! thanks!
<mdeslaur> I am a member of the Ubuntu Security team. My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers
<mdeslaur> yes, I am a Canonical employee :P
 * ajmitch has a great appreciation for those who get those security fixes out to us :)
<mdeslaur> So, if you're running Ubuntu, a third of the security updates from packages in main are from me.
<boredandblogging> nice
<nhandler> I can vouch for that based on the emails I have been receiving regarding the security updates
<Nafallo> mdeslaur: wow. I didn't realise you were that strict with regards to who does what :-)
<pleia2> indeed, fantastic work mdeslaur :)
<nixternal> mdeslaur: what about Xubuntu and/or Kubuntu security stuff? I take it you cover that as well?
<mdeslaur> nixternal: yes
<mdeslaur> also, I started doing some proactive security work also
<nixternal> groovy! so now I don't have to bother kees all of the time :p
<nixternal> on the Kubuntu side that is
<mdeslaur> nixternal: hehe :)
<ajmitch> I'm guessing that you just work in main & leave security in universe to people like nixternal?
<nixternal> bad idea
<mdeslaur> I am currently adding a new config option to the aide package to filter out false alerts from package and security updates from the daily email reports
<mdeslaur> I actively work on updates in main, but I sponsor people who submit debdiffs for packages in universe
<nixternal> mdeslaur: MOTU or Core Dev in the future?
<mdeslaur> nixternal: both, hopefully
<nixternal> if so, what are you waiting for? :p
<mdeslaur> nixternal: just going through the proper way of doing things
<nixternal> understandable...we need to let it be known that you don't need to be an Ubuntu Member to go for MOTU or Ubuntu Universe Contributor, as it is given to you upon getting either previous classification :)
<ajmitch> it is possible to just go straight to core dev
<boredandblogging> mdeslaur: are you active in a LoCo?
<nixternal> ajmitch: shush! we need some universe love dude
<ajmitch> nixternal: sorry
<mdeslaur> boredandblogging: I attend the local release parties, but don't participate in organizing them
<beuno> mdeslaur, how long have you been using Ubuntu?
<mdeslaur> since edgy
<mdeslaur> sorry
<mdeslaur> not edgy
<mdeslaur> before dapper
<mdeslaur> breezy!
<mdeslaur> that's what I was trying to remember :)
<nixternal> lol
<pleia2> hehe
<beuno> well, you had me at hello.  +1 for all the awesome security work
<nellery> hehe
<ajmitch> just a newcomer then :)
<nixternal> beuno: !@)*#)@* GHAHAHAH
<pleia2> awesome work mdeslaur, thanks for those security alerts! +1
<boredandblogging> +1
<greg-g> +1 and thanks for keeping me secure! :)
<nixternal> +1 from me, want to see a Kubuntu security report first thing after this meeting :p
<Technoviking> +1, great security work,
<mdeslaur> hehe, thanks guys
<nhandler> Congrats mdeslaur
<pleia2> welcome mdeslaur :)
<mdeslaur> cool :)
<Nafallo> congrats mdeslaur :-)
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: you're up
<BryanLBasil> Great.
<ajmitch> kees: about 30 seconds too late to cheer on mdeslaur :)
<mdeslaur> hehehe
<kees> congratz mdeslaur !
<kees> :)
<mdeslaur> :)
<BryanLBasil> My name is Bryan Basil, and I am a translator and "customer support representative" as I like to call it for the Ubuntu project.
<BryanLBasil> :-)
<BryanLBasil> I do a lot more, like HowTos, and advocacy projects.
<BryanLBasil> I also like to create Ubuntu artwork.
<BryanLBasil> My wiki page is here: wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan
<BryanLBasil> Sorry, I'll give it to you in link format.  D'oh.
<BryanLBasil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan
<BryanLBasil> Even though I've only been active for about 3 months, my karma on Launchpad has exceeded 9000.
<BryanLBasil> http://launchpad.net/~bryanlbasil
<BryanLBasil> There are tons of links on my wiki page, so if you want to see more, and can't find it on there, just ask me here.
<nixternal> BryanLBasil: what have you done for SchoolTool? I jsut ran across that on LP
<BryanLBasil> Translating.
<nixternal> 3 months active and you have that much work already documented?
<nixternal> serious?
<beuno> BryanLBasil, I see you do spanish translations. Have you thought about applying as an official translator?
<BryanLBasil> beuno: I am currently in the review process.
<BryanLBasil> If you look on the official Spanish Translators page, I am under "pending".
<BryanLBasil> nixternal: :-)
<BryanLBasil> I understand I am at a disadvantage,
<nixternal> whoa, you have only been on LP for just over a month....you have a really nice karma rating for answers, your forums stats are pimp, your artwork is groovy, your howtos are good....so my next questions is....do you have a life at all? :P
<BryanLBasil> because of how short my time has been, but I believe that so far I have been really active.
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: I see a lot of explaining what the teams do in your app, but not specifically what you've done for teams like the Georgia LoCo and the Marketing team, can you expand a bit?
<beuno> BryanLBasil, I see some translations which don't follow the agreed terminology for the spanish group
<BryanLBasil> There's a lot to respond to, can we take a second and answer these really quickly before any more are asked?
<pleia2> of course :)
<BryanLBasil> :-)
<BryanLBasil> nixternal: Thanks a lot... :P
<Technoviking> BryanLBasil: sustained work is one of the key elements for Ubuntu Membership, and only 3 months concerns me.
<BryanLBasil> pleia2: For the Georgia LoCo, the mailing list has been pretty dead, but I have spoken with JonReagan (president) and Nick Ali about working with them on projects like the Atlanta Linux Fest.
<Technoviking> BryanLBasil: What do you have plan in the long term
<BryanLBasil> beuno: Yes, this has been brought up to me by the president of the team.
<beuno> BryanLBasil, great work in the Launchpad answer tracker
<BryanLBasil> Technoviking: I understand your concern, and am hoping that my work is enough in itself and can prove my commitment.
<BryanLBasil> Technoviking: Roadmap is all I want to plan out so far, only tackling realistic things.
<BryanLBasil> If I wrote too many things,
<BryanLBasil> it would sound fantastical, and things people might look forward to
<BryanLBasil> would drop before they started.
<BryanLBasil> I plan on making my roadmap come true, and soon.
<BryanLBasil> beuno: Thanks a lot. :-)
<beuno> BryanLBasil, I think you're off to an amazing start. If you keep this up solid 6 months, I think you'll fly right through. But 3 months is too little, so -1 from me today
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-24
<BryanLBasil> Okay.  Thanks anyway, beuno.  Sorry about the slow typing, everyone.  My hands are cold. :P
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: I agree with beuno, great start but I'd like to see more sutained involvement +0
<beuno> BryanLBasil, I'm an official Ubuntu translator for spanish, so I'll be very happy to help you out join the team
<Technoviking> +) from me also, a great geat start, keep it up and you will be fine.
<BryanLBasil> beuno: thanks a lot, that would be great.
<beuno> smiley vote!
<Technoviking> +0, sigh
<nixternal> +1 from me
<greg-g> BryanLBasil: I agree with everything about your current progress and future, I just want to see what you look like in 3 months. +0
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: also, I noticed that a magazine is on your todo list - are you familiar with Full Circle Magazine and the new Ubuntu User Magazine?
<BryanLBasil> pleia2: Those are virtual magazines, right?
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: Ubuntu User is print
<BryanLBasil> pleia2: Any way that I can contribute?
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: Linux Pro Magazine released it, presumably you'd go through them
<BryanLBasil> Are they on LP?
<BryanLBasil> Great.
<nixternal> anyone else?
<nixternal> vote wise that is
<BryanLBasil> May I suggest something, while I'm in a room full of ubuntu members? ;-)
<nixternal> go for it
<BryanLBasil> On the /Membership page on the ubuntu wiki, it mentions that you should have at least 2 months of sustained contribution.
<nixternal> I think everyone was waiting for you to catch up on answers and made it a bit quiet in here for you to do so :)
<BryanLBasil> But it seems that over time,
<BryanLBasil> that expected time period has increased.
<pleia2> BryanLBasil: I'd really like to see you get more involved with the Georgia LoCo team and have some solid contributions to the Marketing team as well :)
<BryanLBasil> I can't help but feel I've wasted your time
<beuno> BryanLBasil, I agree
<BryanLBasil> So, if it could be changed to, say, 6 months, meetings would go by a lot faster.
<beuno> we need to look into that
<Vantrax> That is a pretty fair observation BryanLBasil, I have seen that as well. Perhaps that does need to be looked at
<nixternal> BryanLBasil: oh heck no dude, you didn't waste my time...I am grabbing some wallpapers from ya now :)
<BryanLBasil> nixternal: haha. :-)
<nellery> Perhaps someone should bring that up with the CC?
<greg-g> BryanLBasil: not at all. In fact, I think your contributions to the Answers tracker and your plans make you a good candidate, but I can't really +1 for what I've seen thus far.
<BryanLBasil> greg-g: Don't worry.  I'll be back soon if it doesn't happen today. :P
<beuno> BryanLBasil, but I still think you need to get a little bit more involved, polish those translations, make a few more connections in the community, etc.  You're a great candidate, and if you keep this up, you will wizz through here in 3 months
<beuno> BryanLBasil, you've applied for all the right reasons, and you should be proud of your accomplishments
<greg-g> BryanLBasil: and I'll be waiting for you :)
<Technoviking> nellery: I will
<nixternal> BryanLBasil: I don't think they weren't saying you didn't have enough time in, you obviously do, they just wanted to see a bit more sustainability and more/cleaner involvement
<nixternal> your time is good, I just think they have misworded their responses
<BryanLBasil> beuno: Thanks a lot. Sorry I didn't see that sooner.
<BryanLBasil> nixternal: Ah.
<BryanLBasil> :-)
<beuno> BryanLBasil, you've done something very valuable today, which is bring up the 2 month rule to our attention. Now we have work to do. So thank you
<nixternal> I am from Chicago, and thus far I am the only one to not muck up the english tongiht :p
 * nixternal runs and hides
<bratsche> heh
<BryanLBasil> "tongiht"?
<nixternal> shush
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> that's how we spell it here in Chicago
<BryanLBasil> Sure, sure.
<ajmitch> nixternal: things are different there, aren't they?
<nixternal> everything is different here
<bratsche> Their fingers freeze off in the cold, so it's to be expected that they can't type. ;)
<nixternal> nice one
<ajmitch> my fingers are just about frozen now :P
<nhandler> bratsche: Only some of us can't type ;)
<BryanLBasil> +1
<nixternal> OK, I am back
<nixternal> hello? am I the only one here now?
<bratsche> Hi :)
<nixternal> hehe
<boredandblogging> nixternal: think we lost quorum
<greg-g> we may have just lost quorum, unfortunately, we're trying to find another person
<nixternal> uh oh
<bratsche> :(
<greg-g> but it doesn't look good :(
<BryanLBasil> Was I the last person to show up?
<bratsche> No.
<bratsche> I think I'm next.
<pleia2> yeah, bratsche you'll be next if we can get quorum
<greg-g> we have bratsche left, but it isn't looking like we'll be able to vote, or at least, have the vote count
<boredandblogging> bratsche: yeah, just trying to get quorum
<bratsche> Yeah I know.
 * bratsche waits patiently :)
<greg-g> thanks :)
<zehrique> greg-g: may I vote for now on?
<bratsche> I think you have to be on the membership board.
<nixternal> zehrique: ya, have to be on a RMB
<greg-g> zehrique: no, only the board members are able to vote. But thanks for the offer :)
<nixternal> we are trying to track other RMB members from other parts of the world
<nhandler> zehrique: Voting is restricted to the membership board, but you can still express your support for people applying to become members
<zehrique> OK, guys. Thanks for the feedback.
<zehrique> :)
<greg-g> bratsche: finding the quorum is proving difficult. I think we're going to have to end this meeting, unfortunately.
<bratsche> :(
<greg-g> sorry about that
<bratsche> Yeah, I understand.
<bratsche> Is there another meeting scheduled soon?
<greg-g> that I am unsure of.
<BryanLBasil> EMEA is
<BryanLBasil> on the 7th.
<bratsche> Or if not, could I present my case and another member of the board could vote later or something?
<greg-g> actually, one moment.....
<nixternal> persia: around at all with a few minutes to spare?
<BryanLBasil> bratsche: If this doesn't work out, and you don't want to wait for the next Americas, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<nixternal> lifeless, elky? few minutes to help out finish up one more member for this evening?
<nhandler> So, are we going to wait and see if we can pull a member from the Asia membership board? Or are we just going to end the meeting?
<nixternal> we are trying, but it isn't looking good
<nixternal> hate to leave 1 hanging
<bratsche> Thanks for trying!  If it doesn't work out then I understand.
<Vantrax> thats a little disapppointing, is it usually difficult?
<pleia2> Vantrax: well, the meeting went over an hour, we tend to lose quorum after that
<pleia2> were hoping to get through more, but :\
<Vantrax> fair enough
<nixternal> would be cool if we could deputize people :p
<bratsche> heh
<nellery> how many do you need?
<nixternal> probably 100 ;p
<Vantrax> isnt that the CC's job nixternal
<wiebelhaus> You guys must have called me and I missed it?
<nixternal> hrmm, what about Kubuntu Council members?
<nixternal> hehe
<bratsche> Uh oh, then I have no chance to make it ;)
<bratsche> hehe
<nhandler> What about MC ;)
<nixternal> nhandler: ya
<nixternal> if we can do MC then we have nhandler
<pleia2> ok, sorry folks, we're going to have to end the meeting
<pleia2> we're going to shoot for having another in 2 weeks :) so watch the board page for the meeting time update
<bratsche> pleia2: Cool, thanks very much!
<greg-g> bratsche: see you in 2 weeks! :)
<bratsche> See you then!
<BryanLBasil> nixternal: can you start a chat with me?
<nixternal> isn't like bratsche is going anywhere
<nixternal> BryanLBasil: can we do it a bit later, I have a date in which I am close to being late for :_)
<BryanLBasil> Ah.  Understandable. :-)
<nixternal> hehe, at least someone understands :)
<BryanLBasil> Of course.
<bratsche> I'm going to guadec, but I think that's over by then.
<nixternal> you mean the Desktop Summit, it isn't all about GNOME for once ;p
 * nixternal runs really fast before getting beat up
<bratsche> heh
 * bratsche hides
<bratsche> I believe the official term for it now is Guademy! ;)
<bratsche> Maybe I can boost my Karma in 2 weeks.  I was blown away by BryanLBasil's karma. :)
<greg-g> bratsche: get to answering questions :)
<BryanLBasil> bratsche: Thanks. :-) I remember I did a couple of translations and had 52 karma, and the day after I answered some questions, I had 470+. haha.
<bratsche> So far most of the work I've been doing is for upstream, but now I'm starting on something hosted in Launchpad bzr.. more karma, here I come! ;)
<BryanLBasil> Good luck. :-)
<bratsche> Thanks!
<bratsche> See you all in a couple weeks!
<Coringao> Hello everyone, sorry for being late. :(
<evand1> hi-a
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> howdy
<robbiew> evand1/evand: hi
<robbiew> lol
<mvo> !
<evand1> heh
<mterry> Hello!
<al-maisan> :)
<xivulon> hi
<Keybuk> yo!
<cjwatson> hello
<robbiew> james_w: awake?
<james_w> hi!
<robbiew> ;)
<james_w> I am now
<robbiew> liw and slangasek are out
<robbiew> so...let's start
<robbiew> [TOPIC] DebianImportFreeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  DebianImportFreeze
<robbiew> merge merge merge!!!
 * Keybuk considers putting together a list of people and the number of merges they have done
<robbiew> cjwatson: anything to add?
<Keybuk> (just for dholbach revenge <g>)
<dholbach> Keybuk: hu?
<dholbach> ah ok
<robbiew> dholbach: sponsorship vs merges
<robbiew> ;)
<dholbach> ... whatever :)
<mterry> Is it useful for me to do merges then sub sponsors, or is sponsoring almost as much work as doing the merge onself?
<dholbach> more sponsoring!
<cjwatson> personally I find sponsoring merges to be about the same amount of work as doing the merge myself
<cjwatson> that doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing, since it encourages new contributors
<cjwatson> robbiew: nothing in particular :)
<cjwatson> we have 65 packages in main that have not yet been merged
<robbiew> :/
<cjwatson> some of those aren't a big deal
<evand1> 64, I merged partman-efi not too long ago
<robbiew> k...moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] glibc
<MootBot> New Topic:  glibc
<robbiew> doko is in OEM...so....
<cjwatson> frex the Debian changes to tasksel are basically just Debian task changes irrelevant to us; installation-guide doesn't really matter urgently; kernel-wedge is typically more trouble than it's worth
<cjwatson> etc. but everything ought to have been looked at
<robbiew> who's "interested" in looking after glibc this cycle...I believe we need to update to a new version, no?
<robbiew> 2.10
<doko> we should. it's easy if we decide on eglibc, it requires re-merging if we stay with glibc
 * mterry feels like he should, as he kicked doko out
<robbiew> heh
<mterry> doko, a decision didn't happen at UDS?
<robbiew> no
<robbiew> which means (to me) that we stay on glibc this cycle...and move for Karmic+1
<doko> the "difficulty" will be not to drop patches which are not in glibc but in eglibc. and then watch the eglibc commits, what Debian does submit to eglibc ...
<mterry> doko, i.e. apply all patches to eglibc to glibc?
<robbiew> do we NEED to update this cycle?
<cjwatson> there's zero point in just applying patches from eglibc to glibc, IMO
<cjwatson> if we're going to merge we should merge; otherwise we should stay where we are
<cjwatson> no point in a halfway house
<doko> and no poing in glibc-2.10?
<robbiew> or is it just something that would be nice...if doko was around fulltime on the team
<robbiew> especially since I think the LTS is going to be 10.10
<cjwatson> the idea of somebody new to glibc attempting to construct a glibc 2.10 package without help from Debian does not fill me with enthusiasm
 * robbiew is apparently typing to himself :/
<cjwatson> (the package in Debian experimental is eglibc 2.10 ...)
<doko> well, if 10.10 is the lts, then we maybe can stay with 2.9 for now
<cjwatson> my personal preference would be to merge up to what Debian currently ship
<cjwatson> and leave it at that, modulo bugfixes
<cjwatson> (i.e. eglibc 2.9)
<robbiew> ok...so I suppose we don't touch glibc this cycle,  since I can't seem to find enough interest to do so
<cjwatson> but emphasis on personal
<doko> cjwatson: but using eglibc? fine with me, but I remember we did decide else ...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Status and Roadmap
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<robbiew> I've deferred a few more features
<robbiew> and have things in order...pretty much
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status and Roadmap
<cjwatson> doko: we failed to decide, AFAICS, despite various attempts to do so
 * robbiew is apparently having weird irc issues
<doko> cjwatson: whoever works on this, there are currently three different branches on lp (glibc-2.9, eglibc-2.9, eglibc-2.10)
<mterry> robbiew, you've dropped status colors a couple times in that wiki.  Was that intentional?
<cjwatson> I think I might have put the status colors in the wrong column, but ...
<robbiew> mterry: yes...moved deferred items to a separate section
<robbiew> and the red was really to highlight no owners
<robbiew> my status was in alpha stage ;)
<robbiew> now the colors will stay or transition to the "previous status" area
<mterry> robbiew, OK, there was a green status on the rsyslog thing twice, but it got dropped.  wasn't sure if I/cjwatson had been doing it wrong
<robbiew> hmm
<robbiew> maybe I overwrote it
 * robbiew will be more careful
<robbiew> in any case, I don't think anyone needs to worry about setting colors for their work...let me worry about that stuff ;)
<cjwatson> ah, that's a relief, I hadn't been sure
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> yeah...let the manager do that tedious crap ;)
<robbiew> as a reminder, please try to put in milestones in your blueprints
<cjwatson> ok, shall we just give updates in weekly catch-up calls then?
<robbiew> cjwatson: yes....that was the plan
<robbiew> some have calls only every two weeks
<robbiew> but I can use irc quite well ;)
<cjwatson> hah
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Platform Sprint
<MootBot> New Topic:  Platform Sprint
<robbiew> book your tix
<robbiew> and complete the wiki please
<robbiew> http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Karmic
<mterry> booked, will wiki later today
<robbiew> whoops...the LTS update item was from last week :/
<mterry> I have to skip the last day, fyi.  My poor planning
<robbiew> mterry: you and Keybuk will be missed
<robbiew> and assigned work
<robbiew> :P
<mterry> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<robbiew> that's all I'm going to say...we all know about it
<robbiew> no sense in nagging too much ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<robbiew> any?
<cjwatson> I trimmed a bunch of space off the live CD initrd
<robbiew> the Debian guys didn't run away screaming from our Boot sprint
<mvo> kernel-crashdumps progressing nicely (hopefully the reporting etc is all done now)
<robbiew> cjwatson: woot!
<robbiew> mvo: nice!
<cjwatson> partly with generic improvements to various bits of initramfs software, partly by switching it over to lzma (though that doesn't quite seem to have stuck yet, I'll check into why). Total space gained is somewhere around 4MB
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
 * mterry doesn't know what "AOB" means
<cjwatson> any other business
<mterry> ah
<cjwatson> both Robbie and I are going to be out on Friday
 * doko is away now
<cjwatson> robbiew: did we decide that slangasek would represent us at the release meeting, or do we need somebody else to do so?
<robbiew> I think he is a proper rep ;)
<robbiew> evand1 is also out Friday...and tomorrow
<evand1> and monday
<robbiew> or evand...whatever he calls himself
<evand1> heh
<robbiew> cjwatson: I'll remind slangasek tomorrow about our absence..since he'll be working UK hours
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:32.
<robbiew> that's all she wrote!
<mvo> thanks
<evand1> thanks
<al-maisan> Cheerio!
<heno> hello!
<bdmurray> hi
 * fader waves.
<pedro_> hola!
<eeejay> hey folks
<cr3> eeejay: yo mama
 * ogasawara waves
<davmor2> hello
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> let's start!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> Last Thursday we had a hug day based on Empathy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090618
<pedro_> was a good hug day for us, since the upstream maintainers were around to help us solving questions
<pedro_> and we've submitted a good quantity of bugs upstream as well
<heno> excellent!
<pedro_> showard helped us during the hug day, kudos to him
<pedro_> and tomorrow we're having a hug day based on Banshee : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090625
<heno> pedro_: should we have a bug day for 100 paper cuts?
<pedro_> mm that's a good idea
<heno> I understand there has been a flood of reports
<heno> get the whole DUX team to triage them ;)
<pedro_> yeap there's quite a lot of bug email noise coming from there
<heno> I can speak with them tomorrow about that
<pedro_> we're receiving a lot of bug mail from nautilus for example
<heno> will a bug day just create more unwanted bug noise?
<pedro_> most of them comments from users
<pedro_> well we can at least help the DUX team to reduce the new bugs there
<pedro_> there's ~280 new open bugs
<pedro_> nah don't think it's going to generate even more noise, since the tasks are already open
<pedro_> would be nice to have more eyes looking at those
<heno> and help them understand the implications of blogging to request that people file more bugs about all their little annoyances ;)
<pedro_> yes please ;-)
<heno> ok, I'll talk with them
<pedro_> awesome! thanks
<heno> thanks pedro for the report
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
<pedro_> my pleasure
<sbeattie> First off, thanks to Neil Hoggarth, Peter Adolphs, Benjamin Drung, Lennart JÃ¼tte, Ryan, Anoop, Gerhard Radatz, and Neil Wallace for testing and posting results for SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> 8.04.3 SRUs are progressing, though there's more still to do.
<sbeattie> We tried to run a testing day on monday focusing on that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090622 but didn't get much uptake.
<heno> no green :(
<sbeattie> So more help is requested; in particular, help with the hardware specific issues outlined in the announcement http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/55 would be useful
<davmor2> Yes sorry I wasn't around much Monday :(
<sbeattie> Yeah. I did a few, but ended up struggling most of the day trying to reproduce the apache mod_ssl one.
<heno> sbeattie: have you looked into the forum testing community?
<sbeattie> Not yet, but thanks for the tip, I'll poke around there.
<sbeattie> Oh, I should note that hardy isos started get spun on monday.
<heno> cr3: heve we run any 8.04.3 ISOs yet?
<heno> (in cert testing)
<fader> heno: We have run some
<fader> They have been tested on the server hardware
<cr3> heno: automated or manual?
<heno> can we get a view of the coverage?
<sbeattie> One issue that I discovered last night is that the livecds were being built with proposed enabled, but the server installer was not.
<heno> cr3: automated, first of all
<cr3> fader: server hardware for 20090624 and desktop hardware too for 20090623.1 (isn't /cdimages awesome!?)
<sbeattie> I believe it's been fixed this morning, but will probably take a day to propogate.
<fader> heno: It's in the certification site; I will export to a webpage so that it is more visible
<sbeattie> fader|cr3: much appreciated!
<fader> cr3: You were one step ahead of me :)
<heno> fader: thanks. can you present that at Friday's meeting?
<fader> heno: Will do.
<cr3> heno, fader: it seems like the desktop images for hardy aren't being tested, I'll see if they need special massaging
<davmor2> sbeattie: I can check out the wifi hardware but I don't have any of the others
<heno> fader: in fact, I will most likely not make that meeting due to traveling; can you represent QA there?
<fader> heno: Absolutely.
<sbeattie> davmor2: that'd be great!
<heno> sbeattie, cr3: please attend as well
<sbeattie> heno: will do.
<cr3> heno: will do
<heno> I was very pleased with out presence there last week btw!
<heno> mainly because we're in good shape on specs ;)
<cr3> heno: would it be appropriate to announce automated testing of live cd images during the meeting on Friday?
<sbeattie> cr3: yes indeed.
<cr3> ... so that we could show we're also in good shape on implementation :)
<heno> cr3: yes, provided we can post some actual results
<heno> (to be scraped from the cert site I guess)
<cr3> heno: fader, schwuk and I will make it happen
<heno> cool
<heno> sbeattie: anything else on SRUs?
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it.
<heno> conflict-checker work is worth mentioning Friday too
<cr3> heno: what's the progress on that?
<heno> [TOPIC] Spec Roadmap review -- heno
<sbeattie> Yep, though one of us needs to go through, do some analysis, and file bugs based on the results.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Roadmap review -- heno
<fader> sbeattie: Can we talk about that after the meeting?
<heno> cr3: 'good progress'
<sbeattie> fader: sure thing!
<heno> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
<heno> All specs green! (approved)
<fader> \o/
<heno> I'll add some implementation icons as well
<heno> eeejay: you'll add a ubiquity automation spec right?
<heno> cr3: and you'll add a filters spec?
<eeejay> heno: oops, yeah. i'll do that now
<heno> great, thanks
<cr3> heno: depending on my findings, I'm afraid that I'm still at the point where this might lead to a dead end. that is life of research
<heno> anyone have comments on the roadmap this week? anyone blocked in their spec work?
<heno> I'll take that as good news
<heno> Any other topics?
<bdmurray> Just in case no one saw it negated tag searching has landed in Launchpad
<heno> \o/
<sbeattie> bdmurray: woot!
<pedro_> \o/!
<bdmurray> sbeattie that might be interesting for finding non hardware specific sru verification bugs
<heno> bdmurray: any news on +filebug redirecting?
<bdmurray> heno: I've not heard anything about it
<heno> OK, I'll catch up with Tom
<bdmurray> great
<bdmurray> Is anybody using the Firefox extension I've made of the launchpad greasemonkey scripts?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: yes, I am. Working well.
<ogasawara> bdmurray: I am
<bdmurray> Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. ;-)
<bdmurray> I think lp_patches is kind of broken now but I'll look at it this week
<heno> So I can set that spec to 'beta available'?
<bdmurray> Yes, that sounds good
<heno> all, feel free you update spec status as you work on them, btw
<heno> ok, looks like were done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
<davmor2> bye]
<slangasek> robbiew, cjwatson: oh hmm, I'm to be representing Foundations at the release meeting?  I thought one of you was still around Friday?
<cjwatson> slangasek: I believe Robbie's travelling, and I'm on a swap day
<cjwatson> slangasek: which I can rearrange if necessary, but I'd rather we just found another representative if need be :)
<slangasek> would be nice if someone else could represent, my head gets hot when I wear too many hats
<slangasek> I can do it, though, presuming someone else can feed me the status beforehand :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: I'll hunt around tomorrow then
<cjwatson> slangasek: I thought I'd asked you about this yesterday and you said yes, but you must have only caught half the conversation :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-25
<luisbg_> hello guys
<luisbg_> _MMA_, hey, long time no see
<luisbg_> anybody besides TheMuso and ScottL around?
<TheMuso> Ok. Who do we have here for the UbuntuStudio meeting?
 * luisbg_ raises his hand
<TheMuso> I know stochastic wanted to try and make this meeting.
<ScottL> I'm here for the Ubuntu Studio meeting
<luisbg_> hello Scott
<luisbg_> TheMuso, want to run the show?
<luisbg_> or wait for more people to attend?
<TheMuso> Sure. Do we have an agenda documented anywhere?
<ScottL> hello luis...brb
<luisbg_> TheMuso, not really, more an open forum... imprompta
<TheMuso> I'll give stochastic a few minutes to show up.
<TheMuso> fair enough
<luisbg_> talk about the future first
<luisbg_> and then follow that
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Ok will if stochastic shows up, he can jump in.
<luisbg_> we can wait till past 10 maybe?
<TheMuso> Ok, so I think we need to start by looking at the jaunty release, and how it was received, and identify what was good, and what was not so good.
<TheMuso> I'll start, the RT kernel was bad.
<luisbg_> +1
<luisbg_> the key thing is to figure out how the development process can be improved
<TheMuso> Yeah, and the kernel is something I want to bring up a bit later.
<luisbg_> ok
<TheMuso> Supporting firewire hardware was good.
<luisbg_> :)
<ScottL> how was the integration between pulseaudio and jack?
<TheMuso> Thanks to rexbron's great work.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Not sure, I don't remember seeing any user reports about that, but it should have been ok.
<luisbg_> I dont recall any words about pa/jack
<TheMuso> If we can get the right bits to land for karmic, it should be even better.
<luisbg_> pulseaudio gives generic problems to all linux users
<TheMuso> Well, its more that pulse exposes bugs in ALA, for the msot part at least.
<TheMuso> ALSA
<TheMuso> most
<luisbg_> I see
<TheMuso> The good thing is that pulseaudio is being developed so rapidly that things are always improving.
<TheMuso> I still think we need pulseaudio in the studio desktop, but as I said, work is ongoing upstrea to improve the communication/integration between pulse and jack.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, I agree
<luisbg_> majority of users want to be able to skype in the same machine they play with ardour/blender
<TheMuso> The other thing that was good last release is the desktop task not being shown on install, as it just gets installed now.
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Yeah, but pulse and skype is going to be an ongoing issue till skype fix their broken use of alsa, or support pulseaudio.
<luisbg_> it was just an example
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> There is also bluetooth to consider, but thats more a consumer use case.
<luisbg_> yeap
<luisbg_> more good and bad features?
<luisbg_> art was even better
<luisbg_> lot of people gave me kudos about that
<TheMuso> ScottL: Do you have anything else to mention?
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Cool.
<ScottL> TheMuso: not really since I still Hardy
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right.
<TheMuso> Ok well I think we
<TheMuso> Ok well I think we'll move on
<luisbg_> yes
<TheMuso> The important thing to me at the moment is what do we do about RT. Unfortunately, the RT patches are always somewhat behind the latest mainline kernel upstream release. We tried getting patches for RT for kernel 2.6.28, which failed badly./
<luisbg_> sadly Im not aware of the details involved
<luisbg_> never got time to learn how the process works
<luisbg_> and do it myself for once
<TheMuso> We now look at a situation for karmic, where the main kernel will be 2.6.31. We don't even have 2.6.30 RT patches yet, and I don't want to go down the same route we did for jaunty.
<luisbg_> so I think in this room you are the expert
<luisbg_> I will follow what you think is best
<luisbg_> do you see any solution?
<TheMuso> Ok, I am just laying everything out. I wish there were a few more here to have input on this, but anyway.
<TheMuso> Originally, I was thinking that we ship the latest kernel version that has upstrea supported RT patches. However this has been thrown into doubt, as we start getting pieces into the desktop that will require kernel 2.6.31 or better.
<ScottL> Wouldn't it be better to have older patched RT kernel than current generic kernel?
<ScottL> sorry, typed too slow
<TheMuso> So at this point, I think we keep an eye on the RT patches as the cycle progresses, and we should find out whether 2.6.30 patches are coming, or even if 2.6.31 patches are planned.
<TheMuso> I think we will no longer have Alessio Abogani's help as I think he has more real life concerns to deal with.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, is there any problem if Studio doesnt have the same version of the kernel than main Ubuntu?
<luisbg_> I recall there was
<luisbg_> packaging probems and more
<persia> I believe having a different version of the kernel will only add to the burden.
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Not really, but it may cause unusual/weird breakage with desktop components, particularly pulseaudio.
<TheMuso> persia: I am in agreement I think./
<luisbg_> hello persia
<TheMuso> Then there is the question of whether RT is still needed. Some users have reported that the generic kernel has been fine for their audio latency needs.
<ScottL> what is the differential between RT latency and generic kernel latency?
<ScottL> sorry again, typed too slow
<luisbg_> TheMuso, hmmmmmm
<TheMuso> I haven't measured it myself, so I can't say for sure, but I think generic wouldn't allow people with older hardware to get as good performance with their hardware.
<luisbg_> it is an interesting topic (that of dropping RT)
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> I think we need to ask users to do some testing for us, to get an answer as to whether we should drop RT.
<ScottL> TheMuso: would a single core computer be considered "older hardware"?
<persia> TheMuso, It's more than that.  RT generally gives better performance than generic even on newer hardware.  That most people can't hear the difference isn't always what is discussed.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Depends on how old that machine is.
<TheMuso> persia: Right, I think we still need to get users to test for us though.
<luisbg_> persia, and a lot of users want RT
<luisbg_> even if they dont need it
<luisbg_> they feel better with themselves :P
<persia> luisbg, Right, which is the tricky bit.
<TheMuso> So given the mess we are in with trying to stay at the same version as Ubuntu, and not having RT patches, I am not sure where to go from here.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, what do you reckon?
<luisbg_> ask users
<luisbg_> ?
<TheMuso> persia is right in what he says about RT giving better performance regardless of hardware.
<TheMuso> And I think those users who tested generic may have not tested performance with a full session load, i.e ardour with multiple plugins and other apps.
<persia> And people always want to try to get more out of their hardware.
<TheMuso> I think we just have to track upstream RT as well as we can, short of finding someone who knows the patches well enough to help us forward port them again.
<ScottL> this RT kernel availability issue will continue to be a problem, will it not?
<luisbg_> TheMuso, Im sorry the burden of RT is going to fall into your workload
<TheMuso> ScottL: I think it will be, particularly if we want to track Ubuntu's kernel version, yes.
<persia> I don't think it's a useful thing to ask users.  On the other hand, I think it is a useful thing to offer RT iff we can get RT patches for the current kernel.
<luisbg_> so if you want to deal with it
<luisbg_> Im not going to say "No" :)
<TheMuso> Well, if I deal with it, I'll be able to do less of other things. I am interested in getting an RT kernel happening, and integrating jack and pulse. I am happy to sponsor other work from others who work on other things, but my focus from here on out I think will be the core pieces.
<TheMuso> Which brings us to the next topic I think, which is manpower... Unless anyone has anything else to add about RT.
<luisbg_> I know this is going to sound weird but...
<luisbg_> RT is a big element in the "what differs Studio from main Ubuntu"
<luisbg_> everytime somebody asks me about what is the difference
<luisbg_> the conversation gets to a point where the question follows to
<TheMuso> That doesn't sound weird to me.
<luisbg_> "so what is the difference of grabing main ubuntu and installing the metas (or a list of cool creative apps)?"
<luisbg_> and RT falls into the "ok, that is a big difference"
<persia> Installing the metas would install RT anyway.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<ScottL> FWIW, I'd rather have a machine that records music well than supports latest kernel/apps
<ScottL> *than* not that
<luisbg_> ScottL, :)
<luisbg_> persia, I agree, yes
<persia> The difference between installing Desktop and Studio metas and installing Studio is mostly about the default theme.
<luisbg_> but without RT the need for a separate install disk is very little
<persia> Oh, and stuff like Network Manager vs. Network Utilities.
<luisbg_> yes
<luisbg_> luckily Canonical helps us with the builds of the disks
<persia> I disagree.  I believe there is utility to having a disk with the applications.
<luisbg_> so it doesnt really matter that much
<luisbg_> oh yeah
<persia> Many people don't have optimised network connections in their studios.
<luisbg_> off course having a 15 minute install and ready
<luisbg_> is way better than 15 minute install, plus downloading and installing all the metas
<luisbg_> if you can download off course
<persia> But we've focused on RT for a while, to the detriment of other things.
<ScottL> speaking of manpower...I want to help, but limited with experience
<persia> I think we ought leave RT this cycle, to see what we can get from upstream, and call it best-effort.  Let's focus on polishing the other stuff (which takes us to manpower)
<ScottL> I've only been using LInux for two years
<TheMuso> I think we use the altest rt patches from upstream, and either work around, drop, or backport the patches we need for 2.6.31 desktop pieces. If that makes sense.
<luisbg_> persia, we can have RT in the LTS and no RT in the other ones
<TheMuso> persia: right
<persia> TheMuso, That does make sense.  I just don't think we should consider not having RT a blocker.
<TheMuso> right.
<persia> luisbg, Having an RT requirement for LTS makes sense to me.
<luisbg_> persia, and we can focus manpower into other stuff in non-LTS releases
<persia> (There are also plenty of non-Studio RT users who would be served by that)
<luisbg_> kinda like working in stages to a powerful LTS
<persia> Right.
<luisbg_> I want to talk about manpower later btw ;)
<persia> What comes before manpower for our agenda then?
<luisbg_> finishing with RT
<TheMuso> I don't think there is anything else.
<luisbg_> :)
<TheMuso> Thats decided I think, best effort is all we can do.
<TheMuso> I'll keep on it as well as I can.
<luisbg_> trying to do RT in all releases as best as we can?
<TheMuso> Yep, but we don't attempt to forward port/backport RT patches unless we have someone who knows them intimately, and can be certain that there will be little to no problems;/
<TheMuso> i.e we track upstream's available patches.
<TheMuso> Ok, so man power, and how we can recruit more help.,
<TheMuso> This is what it all comes down to.
<luisbg_> recruiting
<luisbg_> and current developers and how much time they have for the project
<TheMuso> I think the first place to start, is to get users testing the alphas at a minimum, and testing dailies at best.
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Right.
<luisbg_> myself...
<luisbg_> with more responsabilities at work
<luisbg_> and a full employee
<luisbg_> as you guys have noticed probably... have less time than a year ago
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Yep, and thats understandable.
<luisbg_> I'm happy to offer the lead position to Luke
<luisbg_> specially since he has more direct relations with the rest of community and canonical staff
<luisbg_> :)
<ScottL> I'm dying to help with stuff if someone points me in the right direction
<TheMuso> luisbg_: If you really don't think you can reliably take care of that position, and if there is nobody else who is interested in leading the project, then I may consider accepting.
<ScottL> and willing to answer questions when I get stuck
<persia> ScottL, I think you've hit the most critical bit.  Building a task list.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, I will be available
<luisbg_> just not as much
<persia> We need some clear direction on goals, and some organisation of stuff needing doing.
<luisbg_> and as you know slightly unmotivated after the whole UDS/OVC fiasco
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Right.
 * ScottK wonders who this ScottL is?
<luisbg_> TheMuso, I will tell you about OVC in an other moment
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll sit down this weekend and see if I can come up with a task list, and some bits on how people can get stuck into that task list to help.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, dont worry about this... we will work something out
<ScottK> Sorry to interrupt, but it seemed funny from here.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, about recruiting
<TheMuso> luisbg_: ok
<luisbg_> we should blog and shoot at the mailing lists soon
<luisbg_> ok
<luisbg_> this is an approach we can take
<luisbg_> ScottL, want to help recruiting?
<ScottL> certainly
<TheMuso> Since my recent rekindling interest in producing music, I want to keep the project alive, and will do what I can to keep it that way.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, Im aware of that
<luisbg_> and I want to hear that music of yours
<luisbg_> and will help to get to listen to it :P
<luisbg_> TheMuso, you prepare that task list
<TheMuso> heh, it will be a while yet, but it will happen.
<luisbg_> I will shout in blog and mailing lists
<luisbg_> and ScottL will grab the task list and the people interested at my shouts
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Ok sounds good, will have a look at it on the weekend.
<luisbg_> and gather a work force :)
<luisbg_> TheMuso, yeah... I will be in the middle of the ocean with no internet connection for the next week
<ScottL> luisbg_: sounds like a plan
<luisbg_> until Guadec starts (2nd of July)
<TheMuso> luisbg_: right, I saw your message.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, so staying with the manpower and managing of the project
<luisbg_> something I want to change is making things a little more serious
<luisbg_> I will grab the tasklist and write it as action items in a wikipage
<TheMuso> I was thinking of wikifying it myself.
<luisbg_> then with the help of Scott assign action items to people
<luisbg_> TheMuso, perfect!
<TheMuso> When I do the list, I'll put it on the wiki, and will let everyone know on the list.
<luisbg_> ok
<luisbg_> then we can keep track of who is doing what
<luisbg_> what is being done by whom
<TheMuso> Yep.
<luisbg_> times
<luisbg_> schedules
<persia> Scheduling is always inconvenient, but regular meetings can often help with visibility and task tracking.
<luisbg_> persia, I agree
<luisbg_> my atempts of general meetings failed
<luisbg_> so having a more person to person tracking system
<luisbg_> will help me have one-to-one meetings
<persia> luisbg, If you have the time to coordinate that...
<luisbg_> and keeping track (I will have a file for myself in a project tracking app)
<luisbg_> persia, I think it will take me the same time, it will just be more optimized
<luisbg_> right now there is a lot of running around :P
<TheMuso> luisbg_: If you feel thats all you can do for the project atm, thats fine by me at least.
<TheMuso> We just need some coordination and assigning of tasks, as already stated.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, I will try to assign some action items to myself too
<luisbg_> specially stuff related to parts of the project that Im experienced with
<luisbg_> as I can do changes in the menu/controls quicker
<TheMuso> Right.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, going slightly off topic
<luisbg_> but you and me need to decide a time that suits us both to talk every once in a while
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Certainly, I'm happy for that to be a weekend if that suits you better.
<luisbg_> right now it seams that every time I arrive at the office you are heading to bed, and when I leave the office you are waking up
<TheMuso> Right
<luisbg_> what is your usual on-line time each day
<luisbg_> if I know you are going to be online when it's 11pm here, Im happy to jump in to talk and then continue with my night
<TheMuso> Working week, from about 8:00AM/22:00UTC through to 5:00PM/0700:UTC
<TheMuso> Weekends, it can vary.
<TheMuso> But if it has to be a weekend, I can make the time.
<TheMuso> Even if thats the only studio thing I do for that weekend.
<luisbg_> forget about weekends
<luisbg_> :)
<TheMuso> Ok
<luisbg_> let me check that 8-22 in respect to time difference
<TheMuso> Ok, we are almost out of time. Is there anything else?
<ScottL> re: meetings, I personally prefer group meetings so I can understand what all is going on
<ScottL> but i understand that the two of you will need to discuss things
<TheMuso> And with the existing team members so spread, thats not very easy. Look at the hassle we had getting this meeting going.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, your 8am is my 11pm
<TheMuso> luisbg_: Right, sounds good.
<luisbg_> I will just ping you at 8:30 or around that time
<luisbg_> :)
<TheMuso> Ok sounds fine by me.
<luisbg_> ScottL, do you have skype?
<ScottL> luisbg_: not at the moment, haven't really had a need atm
<luisbg_> not for now now
<luisbg_> will might be calling you in a few weeks though :)
<luisbg_> just something you should have in mind to get sorted
<ScottL> it will be done
<luisbg_> always easier to talk one-to-one on voice than chat chat chat :)
<luisbg_> persia, any other topic you want to bring to the floor?
<TheMuso> News just to hand, 2.6.31-rc1 is out.
<persia> TheMuso, cool!
<persia> luisbg, No.
<luisbg_> cool
<luisbg_> well
<luisbg_> Im happy we have a plan now :)
<luisbg_> lets put it in motion
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<luisbg_> well
<luisbg_> anything else before we close the meeting people?
 * luisbg_ has a plane to catch tomorrow :)
<TheMuso> Have fun, and nothing from me.
<luisbg_> TheMuso, talk to you soon and see you in August also \m/
<ScottL> I have nothing more to add at this time
<luisbg_> persia, are you coming to guadec by any chance?
<luisbg_> ScottL, what is your time zone btw?
<persia> luisbg, I'm not.
<ScottL> central in the US
<luisbg_> cool
<luisbg_> I lived 9 months in Denver
<TheMuso> Ok, till later folks.
<luisbg_> hello cody-somerville
<luisbg_> Meeting adjourned
<cody-somerville> Hi luisbg_
<ScottL> bye, talk to you soon
<luisbg_> how is all cody?
<cody-somerville> luisbg_, all cody is well, thanks. yourself?
<luisbg_> doing good
<luisbg_> in hollidays :)
<luisbg_> well
<luisbg_> gotta go to sleep
<luisbg_> night everybody!
<nextstepusr> Long live Fedora
<nextstepusr> hello/
<bazhang> hi
<nextstepusr> hello
<nextstepusr> can we do something about maybe making a TV ad on Ubuntu
<bazhang> !brainstorm > nextstepusr
<ubottu> nextstepusr, please see my private message
<nextstepusr> I know about brainstorm but none of the users ideas are ever implements
<nextstepusr> *impolemented
<nextstepusr> hello?
<nextstepusr> People please state their countey
<nextstepusr> country
<bazhang> nextstepusr, chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
<slangasek> cjwatson: yeah, I think I missed one of the implications from the conversation we had. :)
<persia> dholbach, geser, nixternal, jpds, nhandler, soren: Are enough of you going to be about that I can miss the meeting in a bit?
<dholbach> soren and jpds wanted to be around
<dholbach> nhandler is not going to be here
<dholbach> dunno about geser and nixternal
<AnAnt> Hello
<dholbach> hello AnAnt
 * geser waves
<dholbach> persia: ^ :)
<jpds> Afternoon.
<dholbach> hello everybody
<AnAnt> Hello
<gaspa> uh, fridge and wiki are not coherent about the meeting start...
<gaspa> dholbach: is fridge right?
<dholbach> geser, jpds, soren: around?
<jpds> Ja.
<dholbach> gaspa: we moved AnAnt a bit earlier because he couldn't attend the later meeting
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<geser> gaspa: we moved the meeting one hour before to suit AnAnt better
<gaspa> uops... so I should run home.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application: Ø£Ø­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙØ¯Ù (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application: #-E/ 'DE-EH/J (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy)
<dholbach> MootBot: you fail! :)
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%8A/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%8A/UniverseContributorApplication
<AnAnt> UTF8 problem ?
<dholbach> looks like, yes :)
<dholbach> AnAnt: how are you doing?
<AnAnt> fine, thanks, how are you ?
<dholbach> a bit tired... but generally alright :)
<dholbach> AnAnt: what have you mostly been focusing ubuntu-wise in the last time? was it sabily?
<AnAnt> some Debian packages
<AnAnt> but a couple of months ago it was sabily
<AnAnt> lately dico got accepted
<dholbach> what has the response been like regarding sabily?
<AnAnt> what response ?
<dholbach> from users
<dholbach> did you see a great uptake after the sabily release?
<AnAnt> yes, I see many happy with it
<AnAnt> except for the web control software
<AnAnt> webstrict
<AnAnt> I noticed on the blueprints that Ubuntu is working on one, so probably we may use that
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> what was the biggest challenge when you worked on sabily?
<AnAnt> other than that, users are happy with the applications we ship by default, and the themes
<dholbach> I had a look at a few screenshots - it looked great :-)
<AnAnt> hmmm, the artwork packages were the biggest challenge I think
<AnAnt> the reason, is that to make our themes the default themes, one had to do stuff with gconf & so
<AnAnt> before I worked on it, they used to do things in a way that is against Debian policy
<AnAnt> like manually editing conf files & so
<dholbach> *nod* that's what I heard from a few other derivatives too, that branding wasn't the easiest thing
<AnAnt> currently there is still one thing that is against the policy (that's the main reason that we didn't try to push it to Ubuntu repos yet)
<AnAnt> but hopefully that would change after grub2
<dholbach> how is the effort behind non-solar-based calendars coming on? to me it seems like there's quite a few components that would need changing
<AnAnt> dholbach: well, I only know of two software doing so: libitl0 & python-hijri
<AnAnt> python-hijri isn't in Debian/Ubuntu yet, because of the copyright, there's a difference in opinion wether it is DFSG compliant or not
<AnAnt> python-hijri is on the PPA though
<AnAnt> I just looked at POSIX 2008 standard yesterday
<dholbach> right... I was just asking because I know that bugs for this in glib and glibc have been open for years
<AnAnt> I still don't find any support for non-solar-based calendars
<dholbach> AnAnt: you could ask for a review by the archive admins to find out if it's suitable for inclusion in Ubuntu
<dholbach> it sounds like it would solve a bunch of problems
<AnAnt> dholbach: really ? please give me links to those bugs
 * soren is around now as well, after kicking his X server around a bit :(
<AnAnt> but I still think that this should better be in glibc not in some libraries
<dholbach> AnAnt: I'll try to find them
<AnAnt> for example I use mutt
<AnAnt> am I going to make mutt use libitl0 to support hijri
<AnAnt> if we do this for every app that would be just too much !
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> soren, geser, jpds: more questions?
<soren> No, I was going to ask about the calendar thing as well :)
<dholbach> AnAnt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344005 (glib)
<geser> no
<AnAnt> dholbach: thanks
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=344005)
<jpds> None from me.
<dholbach> soren: any more questions from you?
<soren> Nope.
<dholbach> [vote] Shall Ahmed El-Mahmoudy become Contributing Developer?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Ahmed El-Mahmoudy become Contributing Developer?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> jpds: the suspense is killing us
<AnAnt> hehe
<dholbach> I'm sure it's something about broken X servers again
<AnAnt> KMS stuff
<AnAnt> ?
<dholbach> I don't know - it all works for me :)
<AnAnt> ok, till he comes back, where can I ask about glib ? I never knew glib has to do with calendar stuff
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<jpds> Sorry.
<dholbach> AnAnt: I think it makes sense in glib, but probably would even make more sense further down the stack, to make timestamps and dates work in various calendars
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations AnAnt!
<AnAnt> thanks guys
<dholbach> AnAnt: but I'm no expert when it comes to calendars and stuff - I just stumbled over the bug :)
<AnAnt> ok
<dholbach> AnAnt: well done
<dholbach> geser, jpds, soren: shall we go on and see who of our applicants is here?
<jpds> Congrats AnAnt.
<jpds> Ampelbein: Are you around?
<AnAnt> jpds: thanks
<geser> dholbach: sure, instead of idling for 39 minutes, we can also ask question to the next applicants :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] MOTU Application: Andreas Moog
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application: Andreas Moog
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasMoog/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasMoog/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> Ampelbein: how are you doing?
<dholbach> oops, sorry - I thought he replied
<dholbach> ttx: around?
<ttx> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Core-Dev Application: Thierry Carrez
<MootBot> New Topic:  Core-Dev Application: Thierry Carrez
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez/CoreDevApplication
<dholbach> ttx: how's life in France?
<ttx> It's nice and sunny. I've a baby screaming on my lap so my answers might get delayed sometimes
<dholbach> :-)
<ttx> was kinda expecting the meeting at 1700utc
<dholbach> ttx: AnAnt couldn't make it later on
<ttx> I should be ok :)
<dholbach> ttx: the most pressing question I have is the following:
<dholbach> Mathias Gug said you should eat more cheese, what are your plans with that?
<ttx> dholbach: well, its a kind of phobia. But I can work around it with cooked cheese
<ttx> as long as it's not really raw. So I expect improvements in this area for the next cycles
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> ttx: how has your experience with Java packaging and integration changed in the last time?
<ttx> dholbach: I would say I encounter two types of actions now. One is packaging missing packages... the other is wide changes to the state of Java library packages in general
<ttx> Java packages don't get updated a lot so there are lots of old deps that need to be cleaned out
<ttx> otherwise you get unwanted dependencies, that sort of things
<ttx> so I look forward using core-dev powers to extend my reach to main Java library packages.
<dholbach> ttx: do you think we're in a better position nowadays (with a few people working on it and having skills and knowledge) to train new people to start working on them?
<dholbach> I'm asking because you said you'd like to do more mentoring and sponsoring :-)))
<ttx> dholbach: yes. And we'll restart the Java team meetings very shortly to try to build a new momentum around that
<dholbach> ROCK
<geser> ttx: what's your impression about the current status of the several java packages in the archive?
<dholbach> that makes me happy
<ttx> dholbach: same space, next week, 0900UTC
<ttx> geser: I'm currently working on cleaning up  lots of them, as part of eucalyptus-in-main and eucalyptus-on-cd blueprints
<ttx> geser: so I'd say not that good, but improving.
<ttx> geser: main problem at that point is hard dependency on a non-headless JRE
<ttx> which pulls full JDKs on otherwise server-only installs.
<ttx> I covered like 20 of them recently... more coming :)
<soren> ttx: I remember there were a lot of things up in the air about how to deal with java packages some months ago. Is there a grand plan for dealing with embedded jar's and API incompatibility and all that jazz going forward?
<soren> ttx: Example:
<ttx> soren: not really. We are still at a point where if more software is added, there is a risk that the stack underneath will not support all software
<soren> Say there turns out to be a bug in a java library, like Bouncycastle. Is everything in the archive that uses bouncycastle already using a separately packaged Bouncycastle?
<ttx> there are workarounds, but the best is to convince upstream projects to have a saner approach to depends
<ttx> soren: they should. there are a few black sheeps, but I'm tracking them through my java-Contents files, which allow to spot code duplication in java packages
<ttx> I hope we can set up something more formal within the java team in the near future
<soren> Cool. So we have an overview of packages that need to be fixed up in case there's a security problem?
<ttx> Yes. Just grep for the affected class and the thing should tell you where it was unduly packaged
<soren> Ok.
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/JavaContents
<soren> Ah, neat. I didn't know.
<dholbach> soren, jpds, geser: more questions?
<geser> ttx: have you any ideas how to resolve this self-build-depending of some java packages?
<geser> I remember fighting with jboss and now maven-plugin-tools :(
<ttx> geser: I hit that issue with a Eucalyptus dependency. The "solution" was to push it to multiverse first and have it build from source + JAR (like Java projects like to do)
<ttx> then upgrade it to build-depend on itself
<ttx> then move to universe once it is properly bootstrapped
<dholbach> ttx: does that info live in JavaTeam/FAQ or something? :)
<ttx> It's still dirty, but it was the least dirty way I could find.
<ttx> dholbach: you got me. Not yet :)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> I just thought "that's something that probably more than one person wondered already..." .-)
 * dholbach is done with questions
<geser> I've was about to repeat the cup stunt (include the debian deb uuencoded in the .diff.gz for bootstrapping) but got stopped by an other build-dependency
 * soren has no more questions
 * geser neither
<dholbach> geser: wow
<dholbach> jpds?
<jpds> None from me.
<dholbach> [vote] Shall we recommend Thierry Carrez for Ubuntu Core Developer?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall we recommend Thierry Carrez for Ubuntu Core Developer?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +2
<dholbach> +1
<jpds> +1
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> Worth a try.
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> well done, ttx
<ttx> \o/ thanks everyone :)
<dholbach> soren: I think that feature is only implemented for sabdfl :)
<dholbach> gaspa: around? :)
<gaspa> dholbach: here I am.
<gaspa> :)
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> [TOPIC] MOTU Application: Andrea Gasparini
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application: Andrea Gasparini
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gaspa2/MotuApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gaspa2/MotuApplication
<dholbach> gaspa: how are you doing?
<gaspa> quite tired. :P I've a little child that doesn't let me sleep too much :p
<jpds> video survaillance? Interesting...
<gaspa> jpds: of course :) i actually like what I'm doing.
<dholbach> gaspa: who were the people you worked mostly with in the ubuntu developer community ... that were not Italian? :-)
<gaspa> well, it depends...
<dholbach> looks like the whole Ubuntu Italian developer mafia^Wgroup replied to your application :-)
<gaspa> :D
<gaspa> I started working with pitti, for usplash, but that was some time ago.
 * warp10 chuckles
<gaspa> about bug fixing, I didn't had contacts with any one in particular...
<dholbach> ok
<gaspa> simply asking for sponsoring...
<dholbach> jpds, soren, geser: questions?
<soren> Err...
<jpds> Do you currently work with the QA team?
<gaspa> jpds: i'm countinuosly work for QA.
<gaspa> the thing I like most is writing script to find subtle bugs. :P
<jpds> Oh, within the -it team? I was think more #ubuntu-testing :(
<jpds> :)*
<dholbach> gaspa: do you think there's lessons the other parts of the community can learn from the Italian community? there's lots and lots and lots of you guys :-)
<gaspa> there's  ever a lot of new people in the -it channel...
<gaspa> and we're simply trying to 'catch' them up :P
<dholbach> we should have a separate discussion about that :)
<gaspa> some times ago we tried an -it bug day, but it doesn't ends with much people. :P
<gaspa> dholbach: sure :)
<jpds> Have you ever run a local bug/packaging jam in your area?
<gaspa> jpds: http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoSviluppo/BugDay
<jpds> Oh, nice work.
<gaspa> only one, with only me, dktrantz, and other two/three contributor...
<dholbach> gaspa: you said you're interested in training new motu.... do you think there's anything generally missing?
<gaspa> but that's only the first :P
<gaspa> dholbach: oh, well, we lack of mentors, it seems.
<dholbach> gaspa: who mentored you... when you started?
<gaspa> dholbach: I hadn't any mentor.
<AnAnt> what a coincidence , 3 of us got babies
<gaspa> AnAnt: :D LOL
<gaspa> dholbach: I asked one a month ago, but without response.
<geser> preparing the next generation of Ubuntu developers?
 * gaspa hoping
<dholbach> gaspa: I know... it's a tough one... we're not big enough for one-to-one mentoring
<dholbach> gaspa: but generally you feel we're on the right track?
<gaspa> dholbach: oh, I appreciated a lot the split in junior/senior mentoring,
<gaspa> perhaps do we need more people on -reception?
<gaspa> don't know, just guessing
<dholbach> maybe
<dholbach> no more questions from me
<dholbach> jpds, geser, soren: ^
<jpds> Neither.
<geser> no questions
<dholbach> soren?
<Ampelbein> hi. sorry i'm late. i think i confused utc again
<geser> Ampelbein: no, we just started an hour earlier
<Ampelbein> ah, ok. well, i guess this meeting is over?
<dholbach> Ampelbein: no, we're waiting for soren to ask gaspa a question
<geser> no
<geser> Ampelbein: no worry, your application will be processed
<Ampelbein> ok, i'm here
<geser> dholbach is hopefully currently looking for soren so we can finish gaspa's application
<gaspa> geser: around berlin? :P
<dholbach> gaspa: sure... from Berlin to Denmark it's not that far ;-)
<gaspa> dholbach: wow, you're so fast :D
<dholbach> hum... I have no idea what happened to soren
<dholbach> nixternal does not seem to be around yet
<dholbach> and persia hopefully went to bed
<geser> dholbach: should we start with questioning Ampelbein till soren comes back?
<dholbach> maybe not a bad idea
<dholbach> gaspa: we'll get back to you in a bit
<gaspa> no probs.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] MOTU Application: Andreas Moog
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application: Andreas Moog
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasMoog/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasMoog/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> hey Ampelbein... sorry for the confusion - how are you doing?
<Ampelbein> dholbach: i'm fine, thanks
<Ampelbein> dholbach: little nervous though
<dholbach> Ampelbein: don't worry :)
<dholbach> Ampelbein: you said that there's heaps of bugs in older versions of Ubuntu... what has your experience been trying to get them fixed (be it through -updates or -backports)?
<Ampelbein> dholbach: there were 2 SRU i managed to get into proposed/updates.
<dholbach> Ampelbein: was it a lot of work? were you happy with how it all went?
<Ampelbein> dholbach: but there was no successful backport, mostly because i did not have enough drive to do it.
<dholbach> is it a lot of work to go through that process?
<jpds> How do you feel PPA have affected backports?
<Ampelbein> dholbach: the biggest problem was to find the one fix for the issue and get it done.
<dholbach> Ampelbein: ah ok, I see
<Ampelbein> dholbach: its a lot documentation, but i don't think its unneccessary work. we must ensure that the stable releases are good at all times
<Ampelbein> jpds: in a negative way. more fixes are just uploaded to ppa but no one bothers to do a SRU/backport
<geser> Ampelbein: as you mentioned that there a many unfixed bugs in the released ubuntu version, so we should do more SRUs? on the other hand I've read "complains" that Ubuntu does to many updates. Any idea how we can serve both sides?
<Ampelbein> jpds: which is not bad in itself, when the ppa is used to preliminary test fixes, but the regular process should be undergone also
<dholbach> Ampelbein: what would you say is your biggest interest going to be in the next months? desktop?
<Ampelbein> geser: no idea atm. i don't think having many updates is bad, those who don't want them can just disable -updates/backports and rely on security alone
<Ampelbein> dholbach: yeah, desktop and some python related stuff. but no particular package
<Ampelbein> when there is nothing else to do, i will do some sponsoring/regular bug fixing.
<dholbach> that sounds good to me :)
<dholbach> "sponsoring" is music to my ears :)
<geser> Ampelbein: there is never a "nothing else to do"
<geser> :)
<Ampelbein> but i must be careful. i tend to overlook some packaging flaws (mainly the LP:XXXX-thing)
<dholbach> Ampelbein: what was your experience with working with debian?
<Ampelbein> dholbach: good, i sent patches there and some were accepted.
<Ampelbein> dholbach: some were not, i never received an response and have not asked again in the bug report
<Ampelbein> for example the nzb-package had a remaining diff over debian, i sent it there and it got accepted -> sync
<dholbach> excellent
 * soren is here now. 
<dholbach> I hope we can make the sponsoring work so well that we don't keep people hanging there :)
<soren> Sorry, the real world demanded my attention.
<dholbach> I don't have any more questions for Ampelbein
<dholbach> how about you geser and jpds, while soren catches up
<Ampelbein> geser: yeah, i imagine that (nothing else to do happens quite rarely)
<jpds> Ampelbein: Do you plan to start working with the backporters team at some point maybe?
<Ampelbein> jpds: i honestly don't know yet. i don't want to start working on everything and then realising i dont make things right.
<Ampelbein> jpds: i'd rather go one step for another.
<jpds> Good plan :)
<soren> No more questions for gaspa.
 * soren catches up, slowly.
<geser> Ampelbein: you mentioned earlier that people tend to upload a fix to their PPA and don't bother to do a SRU/backport. Is there a flaw in our processes that makes a SRU/backport too unattractive/hard?
<Ampelbein> geser: i don't think it's something we can change. we should encourage users to do sru/backport. but most stop at the "works for me" point
<Ampelbein> geser: maybe there should be an easy interface to request a sru from a ppa.
<Ampelbein> geser: like bugzillas have their bug filing interface, we should have something similar for backports/srus
<Ampelbein> of course that would mean to spend more time on those, as i can imagine the number of requests grows large
<cody-somerville> :]
<dholbach> geser, soren, jpds: any more questions for Ampelbein?
<soren> Nope, I'm fine.
<jpds> Nein.
<geser> no
<dholbach> [vote] Shall Andreas Moog become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Andreas Moog become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations Ampelbein!
<jpds> Well done Ampelbein!
<dholbach> [vote] Shall Andrea Gasparini become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Andrea Gasparini become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Ampelbein> thank you all very much!
<dholbach> congratulations gaspa!
<dholbach> YEEEHAW! :-)
<gaspa> Ampelbein: congratulations . :)
<Ampelbein> gaspa: yeah, congrats!
<gaspa> thanks all! :D
<warp10> gaspa, Ampelbein : rock on! :D
<Ampelbein> warp10: will do! ;-)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> jpds, geser, soren: anybody of you up for doing the honours?
<dholbach> if nobody does, I'd do it in the morning
<dholbach> I really need to head out in a bit
 * soren has a foot out the door (literally)
<dholbach> I guess that means that I do it in the morning... :-)
<dholbach> ok... thanks a lot everybody
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:35.
 * warp10 and the other picciotti of the Italian Developers Mafia Group get back to the famiglia with a bottle of prosecco. Everyone's invited to the party, this is an offer you can't refuse...
<dholbach> thanks again everybody
<dholbach> warp10:  :-)))
<warp10> dholbach: ;)
<gaspa> :)
<AnAnt> thanks
<DktrKranz> \o/
<soren> o/
<dholbach> gaspa, AnAnt, Ampelbein, ttx: I promise, I do it real early tomorrow :)
<gaspa>  \o/
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> rock on everybody
 * lool appears
<NCommander> neat
<mhall119|work> do it again
<ogra__> moop
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090625
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090625
<ogra_> sigh, NCommander are you sure there is no piece of german in you_
<ogra_> ?
<NCommander> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<ogra_> #startmeeing at the moment where my clock flips 22:59 to 23:00 ...
<NCommander> ogra_, :-)
 * ogra_ heard lool wants to replace the roadmap with something cooler
<NCommander> Who's here?
<NCommander> o/
 * StevenK isn't
 * ogra_ pretends to be
 * plars has melted into a puddle of mush due to extreme heat
 * GrueMaster is not.
 * NCommander puts plars in the freezer
 * ajmitch lurks & watches
 * NCommander blinks
<lool> ogra_: it's done!
<NCommander> There we go
<NCommander> davidm won't be here
<ogra_> right, post the link :)
<NCommander> ogra_, I did
 * ogra_ is to distracted by other channels :P
 * NCommander is too
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to investigate pm-dashboard (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to investigate pm-dashboard (co)
<lool> ogra_: It's the same wiki page but the list of specs is from blueprints.lp.net instead of duplicated?
<lool> ogra_: So we don't have to maintain both
<lool> and it's always up-to-date
<lool> Just keep your spec up-to-date basically :)
<ogra_> lool, we have other stuff on the roadmap page
<NCommander> ogra, the rest of its there
<lool> ogra_: that's still there
<ogra_> like specs of other teams we care about and bugs
<ogra_> ah
<lool> ogra_: Why don't you just *read* the current Roadmap page?   :-)
<NCommander> ogra, so, pm-dashboard ...
<ogra_> awesome
<ogra_> i spent my day with it
<ogra_> saldy it doesnt fit our requirements
<ogra_> i filed bug 392098
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392098 in pm-dashboard "please add option to filter by tags" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392098
<ogra_> and bug 392094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392094 in pm-dashboard "needs search option for bugs a team is subscribed to" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392094
<ogra_> (there are other usability issues i didnt file yet, these two are critical for us to use the dashboard)
<NCommander> Cool, ogra, why don't you add those to a wishlist section of the roadmap so we can track it
<ogra_> good idea !
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<NCommander> c/o. Might get to this if I clone myself in the near future.
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> co
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate thunderbird segfaults on ARM (https://launchpad.net/bugs/340595)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate thunderbird segfaults on ARM (https://launchpad.net/bugs/340595)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340595 in thunderbird "thunderbird-bin failed to start: burned lots of CPU crashed with SIGSEGV (dup-of: 385325)" [Undecided,Invalid]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 385325 in thunderbird "[armel] thunderbird-bin crashed with SIGSEGVI" [Medium,Confirmed]
<NCommander> Had a breakthrough with heavy assistance with asac, lool, fta, and a bunch of other people
<NCommander> Its fix committed now in karmic
<NCommander> We're pending a test build
<NCommander> If anyone got an ARM karmic system beside me and feels like helping, shoot me a ping, I'd like to get one other person to test this before we shove it int he archive
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to ask StevenK to review mobile-unr-karmic-applications spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to ask StevenK to review mobile-unr-karmic-applications spec
<GrueMaster> moot at this point.
<lool> NCommander: Well done on the TB stuff
<NCommander> lool, you were a major help on that entire project. :-). asac going to handle putting it into karmic so while I think we need to keep tracking this, I think we're more or less done here
<NCommander> s/karmic/jaunty/g
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to get clarification on the 2D UNR spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to get clarification on the 2D UNR spec
<lool> NCommander: asac does the jaunty backport as well?  nice
<NCommander> lool, well, he wants to upstream it, then put 2.0.0.23 into jaunty-security ...
 * ogra_ applauds NCommander 
<lool> Oh ehehe
<lool> via upstream, that's nice
<NCommander> lool, it helps when asac has upstream commit rights
<ogra_> NCommander, now earn your rupert and get us mono-debugger
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to investigate mono-debugger on ARM
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to investigate mono-debugger on ARM
 * ogra_ hugs NCommander 
<NCommander> [topic] unr-karmic-accessibility to be reviewed and assigned
<MootBot> New Topic:  unr-karmic-accessibility to be reviewed and assigned
<ogra_> [action] NCommander find out what a rupert is :)
<ogra_> *g*
<NCommander> ogra, that only works for me ;-)
<NCommander> (try [idea])
<ogra_> i know
<ogra_> nah, i dont want to log it
<NCommander> so who put this action item down last week
<NCommander> oh wait
<NCommander> I didn't paste it
<NCommander> [topic] unr-karmic-accessibility to be reviewed and assigned
<MootBot> New Topic:  unr-karmic-accessibility to be reviewed and assigned
 * NCommander looks around
<plars> I think we concluded that unr-karmic-accessibility work would likely come from the dx team
<NCommander> ok c/o
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> cool, then I don't need to care
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to get clarification on the 2D UNR spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to get clarification on the 2D UNR spec
<plars> that's not to say that they have officially agreed to it, at least not that I know of
<ogra_> lool assigned it to bfiller today
<ogra_> so its done
<NCommander> OSG works fast
<ogra_> apart from that there is a prototype
<ogra_> very cool thing
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to confirm list of specs to be in Review and Approved and have davidm set LP status accordingly
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to confirm list of specs to be in Review and Approved and have davidm set LP status accordingly
<NCommander> I think I got everything
<NCommander> If you see a spec that isn't set right, bug davidm
<StevenK> -translations ?
<lool> The two informational one seem bogus, see the Roadmap section
<NCommander> StevenK, that one is a special case I think
<lool> "Specifications which might be informational and need to be sorted out"
<StevenK> NCommander: It is?
<NCommander> StevenK, I heard that it isn't ours, but I might be misremembering
<NCommander> Does someone want to take this?
<lool> I think we want to clarify these
<lool> StevenK: You were assigned as drafter
<lool> StevenK: Can you clarify what's happening with them?
<NCommander> [action] StevenK to clarify informational specs and -translations
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to clarify informational specs and -translations
<StevenK> Why informational?
<ogra_> they were in the list of the ones SteveA wanted to get rid of iirc
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> StevenK,
<StevenK> I was just about to say I'm not 100% clear on -translations, and would like some help
<ogra_> pitti might be good for that one
<ogra_> he wrote a lot of the code to get translations going in ubuntu
<StevenK> I think pitti has enough specs to write, I just want someone to draft it
<ogra_> ah, i thought more for assistance
<lool> StevenK: What about kyleN?
<StevenK> Once I know what to do, I can get it done, it's figuring out what to do
<StevenK> lool: I can prod him harder
<lool> StevenK: Was the consensus to do translations in Ubuntu?
<lool> ISTR it was, but please confirm
<ogra_> it wshould
<StevenK> I think it was to do them "upstream"
<ogra_> so we get LP love
<lool> StevenK: Really?
<StevenK> Er, in the upstream projects
<ogra_> ugh
<NCommander> ow
<StevenK> lool: Lets deal with this offline out of the meeting
<lool> StevenK: Ack
<lool> StevenK: What about the other one?
<NCommander> [action] StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK and lool to collobrate on -translations and to report back next week
<StevenK> Which other spec?
<StevenK> It's 7:20, I've not had tea, and Firefox doesn't love me
<lool> StevenK: The one I pinged about earlier while you were sleeping!!  :)
<lool> paulliu: I think it's yours
<StevenK> -application-res?
<lool> paulliu: I think we discussed it shortly; is it something davidm agreed we should do this cycle?
 * GrueMaster wonders who does love StevenK?
<lool> StevenK: Yup
<paulliu> lool: Not sure. I haven't ask him.
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Careful ...
<ogra_> lool, you really need a dream-connector for StevenK :)
<lool> paulliu: Could you chekc with him?  I'm pretty sure it's ok
<GrueMaster> :D
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> paulliu: It's just that the spec seemed in limbo
<lool> paulliu: Will you take drafting as well?
<paulliu> lool: yes.
<lool> paulliu: I'll make you drafter
<NCommander> ogra_, no, having dreams with your coworkers are bad enough. I think I would flip if I started getting assigned stuff in my dreams
 * NCommander already had a TB related nightmare this week
<paulliu> lool: no problem.
<lool> StevenK: One down for you :)
<lool> paulliu: Thanks
<StevenK> \o/
<ogra_> NCommander, just an IRC to dreams portal ;)
<ogra_> we can use a special channel
<lool> Back to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<lool> I wonder about the two unassigned specs
<NCommander> lool, actually, I want to do meeting time first
<StevenK> If lool starts giving me work in my dreams, I'm going to seek professional help
<NCommander> StevenK, +1
<lool> karmic-freescale-desktop and karmic-marvell-desktop
<lool> NCommander: I'm still discussing sorting out specs status?
<ogra_> and HW enablement :)
<NCommander> oh, you are?
<lool> NCommander: But we can defer to later in the meeting if you prefer
<ogra_> they are all team assigned
<NCommander> lool, no, go for it
<StevenK> Oh, hardware-enablement needs drafting too?
<lool> ogra_: These are targetted at karmic
<NCommander> We're going to run over, we have too much to do this meeting, so I"m not super picky ...
<lool> StevenK: it's approved
<ogra_> HW enablement isnt ?
<StevenK> Oh it is?
<lool> But right, hw enablement needs an assigneed as well
<StevenK> Like I said, Firefox doesn't love me
<lool> So concerning the two desktop specs, we need to split work
<NCommander> lool, in which way
<lool> I was also surprized by UNR/FSL ending on dyfet's plate as he doesn't have B2, but since we have no 2D UNR nor OpenGL drivers, it's not an issue right now
<ogra_> well, they are closely hardware bound
<lool> NCommander: We need to have people implement FSL desktop and Marvell desktop
<dyfet> I was surprised too ;)
<NCommander> lool, well yes, but I think we can break that into mini-specs
<lool> I think it's a collection of small things; for FSL it's probably just an update on what we have, and for Marvell it's a new image with uboot and all
<NCommander> Or tasks
<NCommander> and then individually assign those
 * ogra_ hast read the specs, does it need special seeds ?
<StevenK> I think that one will require physical hardware access
<NCommander> (and then have one lead person to report progress)
<lool> NCommander: Each spec can be broken down in work items, yes, but we need a responsible person for each
<lool> NCommander: exactly
<lool> I'm looking for such persons   :-)
<StevenK> I'm happy to be the RP for UNR/FSL
<GrueMaster> responsible?
<ogra_> RP ?
<StevenK> Oh dear god, did I just say that
<NCommander> lool, that's asking a lot
<lool> StevenK: Hmm this is not exactly the ones we were discussing, but we could discuss that
<lool> Let me recap
<NCommander> I can take Marvell or FSL desktop
<StevenK> RP == Responisble Person, it's a DNS thing
<lool> We have desktop FSL, desktop marvell, UNR marvell, UNR FSL, hardware enablement
<ogra_> aww
<ogra_> to long ago
<StevenK> Ahh
<lool> The UNR ones are irrelevant as long as we don't have OpenGL drivers OR a 2D UNR launcher, so no hurry
<lool> Currently these are assigned to dyfet
<StevenK> Right, okay
<lool> StevenK: i'm happy if you help dyfet with UNR stuff though
<NCommander> I think we can leave both UNR ones assigned to canonical-mobile
<lool> Then, we have the two desktop ones
<NCommander> (as it stands in LP, both are dependent on their desktop specs)
<lool> NCommander: The UNR ones are /already/ assigned
<ogra_> which is the default
<StevenK> I think dyfet would be happy, too
<lool> NCommander: And don't need to move to canonical-mobile
<lool> Hmm ok
<ogra_> i dont expect much apart from fixing remaining jaunty bugs for FSL
<dyfet> StevenK: yes :)
<lool> Actually you folks are correct, no need to assign them to dyfet now
<NCommander> Just for sanity sake
<ogra_> (new kernel and redboot aside here indeed)
<NCommander> WHo currently has TO2 hardware, and who is getting Marvell hardware?
 * ogra_ raises hands for both
<lool> I removed assignees for these two
 * NCommander raises hand for both (and two B1s that work, and another thats a brick)
<ogra_> but marvell should be lead by someone else
<dyfet> NCommander: I am on the Marvell "list"...
<GrueMaster> According to davidm_'s email earlier, we should al be getting marvel boards "soon".
<ogra_> i'm fine keeping babbage
<lool> Now there's hw enablement, and the two desktop ones
<NCommander> THat's fine
<NCommander> then I'll take Marvell
<ogra_> and help with marvell
<NCommander> and help with FSL
<NCommander> lool, is that fine by you?
<lool> NCommander: marvell desktop?  that's ok with me
<NCommander> Ok
<ogra_> lool, i think they go hand in hand for each HW
<NCommander> [action] ogra to lead freescale-desktop specification and projection implementation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to lead freescale-desktop specification and projection implementation
<ogra_> (the desktop ones)
<lool> NCommander: Actually there are two things
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> :-P
<lool> NCommander: One is FSL needs B2 hardware
<lool> and cdimage capability (as discussed earlier)
<lool> the other is that Marvell needs Marvell hardware and cdimage capability
<StevenK> Why cdimage?
<NCommander> StevenK, we need subarchitectures
<ogra_> for adding the image specific stuff
<lool> StevenK: Because we need to write cdimage scripts to output images
<StevenK> Ahh
<NCommander> StevenK, we fudged it and make imx51 the only armel image
<lool> That's most of the work actually
<NCommander> StevenK, to avoid another ps3 hack
<StevenK> I'll just say 'ewww'
<NCommander> StevenK, well put
<NCommander> So
<lool> So either we keep NCommander as assignee, and he asks for help, or we put cdimage folks as assignees and they ask NCommander for help
<StevenK> I like the former
<NCommander> lool, I have cdimage setup, so I can work on that
<NCommander> lool, someone from cdimage will have to do the merge to antiomony
<lool> NCommander: The cdimage cdimage is a bit different from the public cdimage
<ogra_> yeah
<lool> *cough*
<NCommander> lool, that's not what I was told.
<ogra_> and needs review usually from slangasek or cjwatson
<NCommander> Ok ...
<StevenK> Hysterical raisins
 * NCommander looks at StevenK 
<lool> NCommander: But there are other tasks: packaging of uboot, kernel + image testing etc.
<lool> NCommander: So you're tacking marvell desktop?
<NCommander> Yeah, I'll take it
<lool> Next is FSL desktop
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to lead marvell-desktop specification and project implementation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to lead marvell-desktop specification and project implementation
<lool> It's relatively easy, but it needs splitting out FSL stuff of armel into armel+imx51
<lool> Then updates to redboot + kernel
<ogra_> lool, as i said before i thing HW enablement, image building and basic desktop are one task
<ogra_> so i'm fine to take that
<lool> ogra_: hw enablement covers a shitload of netbooks
<ogra_> HW enablement for FSL i meant :)
<lool> ogra_: Are you talking of the hw enablement spec or just of the FSL spec?
<lool> Ok
<lool> I think it's an easy one yeah
<lool> Ok, I'll assign to you
<ogra_> thanks
<lool> Final one is hw enablement for QA
<NCommander> I already have that action item for ogra
<StevenK> Sounds like plars
 * StevenK hides
<lool> I think I'd like someone from QA to pick that up   :-)
<plars> lool: what's that?
<ogra_> your task :P
<lool> plars: The hwenablement spec
<lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-hardware-enablement
<plars> ah, I haven't looked at that one yet
<lool> needs an assignee to drive it; looks like it would be nice to have someone from QA pick it up
<lool> or GrueMaster perhaps?
 * GrueMaster hides
<GrueMaster> What would I need to do?
<ogra_> work ?
<plars> actually, is this for the certification stuff?
<GrueMaster> ogra_ Pfft!
<ogra_> :)
<plars> if so, that portion of it might already be covered by another blueprint
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: it still needs implementation + design drafting at least
<GrueMaster> I think I saw something on this earlier.
<lool> Basically, one responsability of the mobile team is to make sure these netbooks work
<GrueMaster> I only have one netbook.  This is something the QA team should look at as they have a bunch in MA.
<GrueMaster> And it was discussed in UDS.
<plars> lool: but is that with the assumption that it's going to go into the lab for official certification? or that it's going to be tested in cycle by this team?
<lool> So if someone would be to drive this, I'd suggest coming up with a good way to ensure stuff works (test plan / test cases / checkbox etc.) and collecting results from people who have the hardware
<lool> If something doesn't work, tracking bugs and progress on the resolution
<lool> Finally, outputting release notes covering the actual level of support
<GrueMaster> Like I said, the QA team already has a process for this in place I believe.
<plars> lool: ok, give it to me then I guess, and we can hash out the details later... sounds like it shares a lot withe the mobile karmic qa UNR one that I already have
<lool> plars: I know nothing more than you do, I wasn't at the discussion (you were I think?), it's just my guesses
<lool> plars: Okay
<lool> StevenK: You're drafter on that one
<StevenK> Do I have to be? :-)
<lool> StevenK: Will you complete drafting, or perhaps you can discuss this with plars out of band?
<StevenK> Yeah, I'll talk to plars into it^W^Wabout it
<NCommander> StevenK, you really need to fix your terminal settings
<lool> Ok; I think that's all I had on blueprints triage; unless someone sees any other issue?
<plars> bribery will get you everywhere
<plars> wait
<plars> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting doesn't seem to show up on the current list
<lool> plars: It wasn't on the Roadmap wiki page
<plars> lool: yeah, it just got thrown at me yesterday
<lool> plars: It should appear now
<plars> lool: ah, I see it now... it wasn't there a few min ago when I checked
<NCommander> so is that everything on specification assignments?
<lool> plars: So you'll draft and implement that?
<NCommander> [action] plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<lool> plars: It appeared because I sub-ed canonical-mobile to the spec just seconds ago
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to draft and implement mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<lool> plars: I've assigned you to the spec as well; let me know offline if that's incorrect
<ogra_> 13mins ...
<NCommander> [topic] Meeting Time Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Time Discussion
<lool> plars: as I was saying I've assigned you to the spec as well; let me know offline if that's incorrect
<GrueMaster> I kind of like it where it is.
<NCommander> If you have an idea, please use [idea] to submit it, we'll individually vote on each one
<NCommander> Each member can vote multiple times on each timeslot
<plars> yeesh, just got dumped... it's drafted, needs review if someone is up for it
<NCommander> The one with the most votes wins
 * ogra_ agrees with GrueMaster 
<NCommander> In case of tie, it goes to David to decide
<GrueMaster> [idea] current time works.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  current time works.
<NCommander> [idea] current time
<MootBot> IDEA received:  current time
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> gruemaster beat me to it
<ogra_> [ides] agreeing on current time
<ogra_> [idea] agreeing on current time
<MootBot> IDEA received:  agreeing on current time
<ogra_> gah
<NCommander> ogra, no, I'll do a vote on it :-)
<lool> So
<lool> I don't mind the current time
<lool> Except it conflicts with a moving meeting on Fridays
<StevenK> [idea] current time, peer pressure
<MootBot> IDEA received:  current time, peer pressure
<NCommander> Well, do we have any other good candidates?
<lool> So I'd like to move the *day* of the IRC meeting
<lool> to keep at least two days away of that other meeting
<NCommander> lool, to Friday?
<StevenK> I'd like to move the time
<lool> No
<NCommander> StevenK, [idea] a time and day
<lool> i'd personally recommend Tuesday for the IRC meeting and Thursday for that other meeting
<NCommander> StevenK, it will be consider and reject^W voted
<ogra_> paulliu, you are suffering from the time as well, dont you ?
 * GrueMaster likes to watch StevenK squirm
<paulliu> ogra_, yes a bit.
<NCommander> and persia
<lool> I don't think persia suffers this cycle, we can revisit in karmic + 1
<lool> (for persia)
 * StevenK books flights to OR
<lool> Does someone object with moving to Tuesday/Thursday?
<ogra_> well, given that paulliu replaces him, that doesnt mean much
<NCommander> StevenK, bring a video camera, I want to watch
<ogra_> bad time is the same
<NCommander> [idea] Moving the meeting to Tuesday, same time
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Moving the meeting to Tuesday, same time
<NCommander> [idea] Moving the meeting to Thursday, same time
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Moving the meeting to Thursday, same time
<lool> I'm fine with that
<StevenK> Tuesday UTC?
<paulliu> ogra, yes, Japan time is only +1 of Taiwan Ttime.
<NCommander> so three candidate ideas
<lool> 9pm UTC
<ogra_> move it earlier for the asian and au people ? or later ?
<slangasek> lool: anything that you can find the code for in the public cdimage should be committed there first, anyway... :)
<StevenK> Earlier is bad
<StevenK> 7am is already early enough
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> Wait, today is thursday
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> *coughs*
<lool> slangasek: I wish :)
<lool> NCommander: We are thursday
<NCommander> lool, yeah, I realize this, but I was thinking we had three different candidates for time
<paulliu> StevenK: How about one hour later.
<paulliu> So it's 6AM for me. Better than 5AM.
<StevenK> paulliu: Then it's 1am for ogra_ and lool
<NCommander> I think that causes issues for the Europeans
<paulliu> Ouch.
<lool> I think there's no match for UTC+2 / UTC - 4 / UTC - 5 / UTC - 7 / paulliy
<NCommander> I dunno, maybe its easier to move the team to one location
<StevenK> +2, -4, -5, -7, +8, +10
<ogra_> 1h later is 11pm for me
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> 12
<ogra_> not 1am
<StevenK> midnight-1am is a bit much, though
<lool> ogra_: ends at 1am though
<ogra_> i could live with that
 * plars proposes that all countries eliminate DST and move to UTC
<ogra_> indeed
<NCommander> plars, +1
<NCommander> Its a pity, ALaska used to do that, then they brought it back. Its the only flaw in that place :-/
<lool> What about moving it /slightly/
<StevenK> Then you get, "Why is sunrise at 10pm?"
 * GrueMaster votes for Mark buying an island in the south pacific and moving the mobile team there.
<NCommander> [idea] Moving the meeting ahead one hour to 22:00 UTC
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Moving the meeting ahead one hour to 22:00 UTC
<lool> e.g. half the time 8pm UTC then 10pm UTC
<StevenK> Then we can't bai^Wtalk to the Europeans
<lool> StevenK: We'd attend, we'd just be pained one time out of two
 * ogra_ can easily live with a 12pm meeting
<lool> And you would too
<lool> ogra_: that's because you don't have the living 7am alarm clock
 * NCommander notes that neither dyfet nor myself would be badly affected by that.
<ogra_> every second week is even better
<StevenK> Oh yuck, two meetings, one at 6am and 8am?
<lool> StevenK: No, one week 6am the other 8am
<dyfet> NCommander: true
<ogra_> lool, alarm clock ?
<lool> or one month, one month
<ogra_> whats that ?
<lool> ogra_: my son
<ogra_> i know :)
 * NCommander notes his dog used to do that.
<StevenK> If we're going to do that, can we at least pick a better time?
<lool> ogra_: I'll send him to germany for some time :)
<NCommander> StevenK, we could flip it by 12 hours
<ogra_> feel free, susie would be happy
<NCommander> SO us states folks get boned
<NCommander> I figure if we're going to bone people, we should be an equal opportunity boner.
<lool> I'm fine with moving 12 hours
<StevenK> Haha
<lool> Ok; 2 minutes left in all timezones
<ogra_> NCommander, you get all the other privileges alreaday ... like easy travelling
<lool> I don't see why we should bother with NCommander's schedule anyway  ;-)
<NCommander> lool, we have this room until tomorrow mornin
<NCommander> lool, I have a schelude?
<paulliu> OK. I'm ok with same time.
<ogra_> NCommander, thats the point
<NCommander> [vote] Keep the meeting where it is
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Keep the meeting where it is.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> 0
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<GrueMaster> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lool> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lool. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paulliu> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paulliu. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<lool> Just MOVE IT TO TUESDAYS; THANKS
<NCommander> StevenK, its +0
<StevenK> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<StevenK> Stupid bot
<ogra_> 0
<NCommander> Ok, I think that's everyone
<lool> paulliu: You should be voting -1
<NCommander> Or not
<ogra_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<lool> +0
<GrueMaster> lool: can't vote twice.
<StevenK> Where abstention == i don't care for it, really
<lool> GrueMaster: I'd like to change my vote!  :)
<ogra_> lool, you said +1 before
<paulliu> lool: I'm ok.
<NCommander> Vote is 4 for, 3 abstain
 * NCommander will mentally not it
<lool> Ok; done
<NCommander> #endvote
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [endvote]
<GrueMaster> You're not in Florida.  No changing.
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
<lool> EVERYBODY OK WITH TUESDAYS?
<lool> Sorry I'm all caps
<plars> I'm fine with tuesday
<NCommander> [vote] Moving the meeting to Tuesday, same time
<ogra_>  /ME DOESNT CARE MUCH
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Moving the meeting to Tuesday, same time.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<lool> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lool. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<plars> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from plars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<GrueMaster> Tuesday or Thursday makes no diff for me.
<ogra_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<StevenK> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from StevenK. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paulliu> +1
<GrueMaster> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from paulliu. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Abstention received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dyfet> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<lool> Sounds good
<lool> Ok; done deal
 * NCommander isn't sure hot o vote
<NCommander> lool, not quite :-)
<lool> Result is clear
<NCommander> It is?
<StevenK> Unless NCommander votes -5 ?
<NCommander> -5
<lool> The only thing is that we'll probably be having meetings on #ubuntu-mobile as there's a meeting every two weeks
 * StevenK smirks
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> I didn't think that would work.
<lool> NCommander: [endvote]
<NCommander> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from NCommander. 4 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 4
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 4
<lool> Ok; moving on
<NCommander> Both votes are now tied.
<lool> NCommander: We can check that offline for the actual IRC channel
<NCommander> (for keeping, and for moving)
<lool> Worst case #ubuntu-mobile-meeting
<NCommander> [vote] Move the meeting time ahead one hour
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Move the meeting time ahead one hour.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<NCommander> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from NCommander. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> +1
<lool> NCommander: WTF?
<MootBot> +1 received from StevenK. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<NCommander> lool, that was one of the ideas submitted.
<dyfet> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lool> We agreed to keep the current time?
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<GrueMaster> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from GrueMaster. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<lool> How are you going to decide between the two votes?
<plars> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from plars. 3 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_> +12
<plars> hah
<NCommander> lool, you can vote on all of the, which ever has the highest amount of votes wins.
<lool> StevenK: You're voting for one hour ahead??
<ogra_> hmm, doesnt work
<NCommander> lool, in case of tie, davidm chooses
<lool> This doesn't make any sense
<NCommander> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 2
<ogra_> -15
<StevenK> I think that one is defeated
<ogra_> hmm, doesnt work either
<NCommander> lool, well, as it stands, your vote, and the keep the current vote tied.
<NCommander> did we have any more candidates we wanted to vote on?
<lool> They are unrelated
<lool> One is about the day, the other about the hour
<lool> We voted the hour, we voted the day, it's done?
<NCommander> lool, no, that one would have been Thursday +1 hour to the time
 * GrueMaster agrees with lool
<NCommander> I think we're moving the meeting to Tuesday same time or the current time
<NCommander> (I'll poke davidm about that)
<lool> Yes; let's move on
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to poke davidm_ on meeting times result
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to poke davidm_ on meeting times result
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<ogra_> done
<lool> We did that
<NCommander> er wait
<NCommander> [topic] Bug Workflow discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Workflow discussion
<StevenK> No, we didn't?
<NCommander> sorry, got the wrong one on the todo list
<StevenK> We didnt give status of our specs?
<ogra_> StevenK, in the beginning ... when you didnt have tea yet
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
<NCommander> ogra, we did?
<StevenK> Sure, but we didn't discuss every spec like we did last week
<lool> plars: I wish Goals would state that we want to a) identify relevant bugs b) track their progress, c) don't miss important bugs etc.
<plars> lool: ok, noted
<ogra_> we're already 7min over
<lool> (I can change it but since it's your work)
<NCommander> ogra, we have th room until tomorrow ...
<lool> ogra_: It doesn't matter, you don't mind midnight meetings :)
<plars> lool: either way, np... I don't mine others editing, but it deserves group discussion I think
<ogra_> NCommander, NOT MY LIVING ROOM, NO !
<NCommander> ogra, I meant #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> lool, indeed :)
<lool> plars: I think we want to assign to canonical-mobile when it's clearly the responsability of the mobile team to fix, but we don't know whom
<lool> plars: e.g. other teams might want to do that, and we might want to do that when we don't know yet
<plars> lool: assign? or subscribe?
<NCommander> I think assignment works better
<lool> plars: assign
<StevenK> I think we should move the IRC meeting to ogra_'s living room, and meet there every week
<ogra_> yay
<NCommander> StevenK, oh great, then my expense reports can be even MORE fun.
<ogra_> i'll care for the beer
<lool> plars: We don't want to assign all the time, there are bugs which are important to the mobile team, and bugs which are the responsabiilty of the mobile team to fix
<plars> with subscribe, you still get notified.  The potential problem I see with assigned is that for many bug submitters, it has an implied meaning that someone is actively working on it
<lool> plars: If we want to follow, or someone needs our advice on a bug > subscribe
<NCommander> I think one thing we really want is that we don't want to lock out community contribution
<NCommander> Rephrase
<NCommander> Non-canonical
<lool> plars: I think bugs should stay assigned to canonical-mobile too long; it should be a temporary state until we assign one person from the mobile team to it
<NCommander> I personally think we should use ubuntu-mobile in place of canonical-mobile unless its something that must be handled by Canonical employees only.
<NCommander> </2c>
<lool> plars: I think it's a strong commitment, but I also think we want to be clearer about who owns what; if the team is just sub-ed, it's not clear we need to do any action, it might just be an issue affecting us which we're waiting a fix of
<lool> NCommander: I actually have something else to offer on that subject, but i'd like to reach consensus on assign/subscribe
<plars> lool: the other problem I see, is that it is difficult from a triage perspective to determine which bugs the mobile team is interested in being subscribed to, vs. which should be clearly assigned to the mobile team
<plars> unless you have a clear way of determining that?
<NCommander> What about subscribing bugs of interest, and tagging ones we might want to take action on?
<lool> plars: So the way I see it, bugs just live against projects and we see them through various subscriptions; at some point, there are more important bugs for which we want an explicit tracking or for which we want to commit to fixing
<lool> plars: Typically, milestoned bug, bugs blocking work, bugs relevant for implementation of a spec, bugs for which we committed to another team to do somethihng about
<lool> etc.
<lool> When triaging bugs, we focus on making sure the bug is in a good shape, and for serious bugs we take action to assign someone
<plars> lool: ok, so who would look at a bug and say "yes, the mobile team needs to work on this" and make the assignment?  Is that something you would expect a bug submitter to do? triager? or a dev from the mobile team?
<ogra_> triager and mobile team
<ogra_> if the triager is able to judge
<lool> plars: I think it could be other teams, the triager, and mobile team declaring "this needs our action"
<lool> It's a strong commitment though
<plars> even if it's something you expect a triager to do, then there needs to be a clear delineation of how to tell which bugs need to be subscribed, and which need to be assigned
<lool> It's a good question, I find it hard to tell at which point you decide you need to raise it to the team action's list
<plars> lool: which brings me back to the original idea of... subscribe, then someone who *knows* should determine that it needs to be assigned
<StevenK> Subscribe in the first case, if we feel it's important enough, we'll take it?
<lool> plars: Oh a two level process is fine with me
<plars> I want to avoid someone opening a bug and randomly assigning it to the team
<ogra_> StevenK, ++
<lool> plars: I don't mind subscribe or subscribe + assign
<GrueMaster> I'd say subscribe first, assign second.
<lool> Seems we have good consensus here
<plars> seems so, so moving on to team then?
<lool> plars: The way I see it, during our meetings we'll look at all sub-ed + assigned bugs
<plars> which team to use? canonical-moibile? ubuntu-mobile?
<lool> For assigned bugs we'll ask individuals how they are making progress, or assign individuals
<lool> For sub-ed bugs we'd discuss impact and progress
<plars> and the other question is, do we distinguish between armel and unr bugs for team assignment/subscription?
<lool> Teams: ubuntu-mobile is sadly conflated for historical reasons
<lool> It served Ubuntu MID and has random people in it who don't really follow everything we do
<lool> ubuntu-mobile is a bit broad: you wouldn't expect someone to pick arm and unr bugs
<lool> So instead I propose we use more specific teams; ubuntu-unr (exists) and a new ubuntu-arm
<plars> the third options is - do we need a new team(s)?  ...probably a bigger can of worms than I was hoping to open here
<NCommander> lool, I thought ubuntu-arm existed
<lool> There are examples of ubuntu-$arch teams already
<ogra_> good idea
<lool> NCommander: it does not
<lool> Or didn't last time I checked
<NCommander> lool, those teams exist more for kernel development
 * NCommander is in all of them already...
<lool> NCommander: they exist for porting
<ogra_> if it does we'll call it ubuntu-leg :P
 * NCommander wonders if ogra will ever run out of puns
<ogra_> not me
<StevenK> ubuntu-forearm
<ajmitch> NCommander: not possible
<lool> plars: using non-canonical teams is aimed at community participation, right?
<lool> plars: I don't think we can expect community people to participate in exactly the same technical topics
<plars> lool: yes, canonical and non-canonical inclusive
<lool> So all I wish for is to use finer grained topics, and hence teams
<lool> So ~ubuntu-unr, ~ubuntu-armish etc.
<plars> although, I don't think that subscribing (or assigning) to a canonical team necessarily excludes broad participation either
<lool> (not suggesting exact names here)
<StevenK> ~ubuntu-amish ! \o/
<lool> StevenK: Out!  :)
<StevenK>   /part
<lool> plars: Also, these teams could server QA contacts for source packages
<dyfet> StevenK: and I was doing to suggest that was a bad choice ;)
<lool> e.g. UNR packages, or say Moblin packages if we ever package that
<ogra_> whats moblin ?
<NCommander> MY EYES
 * ogra_ hides
<lool> armish was just an example; ~ubuntu-armel would be a nicer one for porting issues
<NCommander> lool, that's a four letter word around here
<ogra_> ++
<lool> Do people agree with giner grained teams?
<lool> *finer
<lool> With ginger breaded teams
 * GrueMaster yawns
 * ogra_ agrees with giner ... 
<lool> Geez *finer
<ogra_> not so sure about finer
 * NCommander would perfer cinnamon
<StevenK> Mmmmm, Ginger
<NCommander> ok, I think we've gone too far with the puns.
<playya_> for some parts in -mobile you need the hardware, which sometimes is not available for the community
<lool> plars: Does that work with you?
<plars> I am in favor of that, but we need to define what they are and create them if they do not already exist... as was already pointed out, ubuntu-mobile already exists, but doesn't make sense to use
<lool> plars: Exactly
<lool> Ups s/plars/playya
<playya_> or to expensive to build some packages on it
<lool> I think we want -unr, -armel for porting issues FTBFS, crashes etc.
<lool> Perhaps we want one for imx51, but that seems a bit heavy
<ogra_> playya_, but if youre in the team you can ask people with the HW for help
<lool> plars: Perhaps we can keep canonical-mobile by default when we don't have a more specific team?
<StevenK> +1 for -armel
<playya_> many project have the problem that they start with a lot of hackers. but when everthing (newarly) works they are away
<NCommander> +1 for -arm
<ogra_> lool, no, not imx51 specific
<lool> ogra_: Yeah
<ogra_> +1 for -armel
<lool> plars: Is this enough for a start?
<playya_> ogra, yes. i started the freesmartphone.org team. but i don't have hardware which runs ubuntu and has a gsm modem
<plars> lool: I think so, yes.  However I haven't looked into creating teams before, who would need to do that?
<ogra_> playya_, right, but you have people in the team with such HW (i hope)
<lool> plars: So we could say we regularly triage New bugs tagged armel, and new bugs against Ubuntu UNR packages
<lool> plars: It's trivial, and one is already there
<lool> plars: It's just two clicks away in LP
<plars> ok
<NCommander> who wants to take that?
<lool> plars: Do you think you could update the wiki page with more specific workflows for armel bugs and UNR bugs?
<plars> lool: yes, of course
<lool> plars: What I'd recommend is using source package's QA contact or subscribe ubuntu-unr to UNR packages
<lool> And for armel it's a bit different, the bugs aren't in a specific package but all over the place, so looking at the armel tag is probably the best thing to do
<lool> We get these bugs directly usually (i.e. we are pinged about them :)
<ogra_> or file them ourselves
<lool> Is anything left to discuss on this topic; do other people have comment on plars' page?
<plars> lool: usually, yes, but circumstances could change with that
<plars> another question I had
<plars> what about bugs that are against the image
<plars> i.e. not a specific package
<lool> plars: there's a project to file these bugs against
<plars> lool: right, which is?
<lool> plars: If it's an installation issue, I think they get reported against ubiquity or debian-installer (dependning on the image type)
<lool> plars: Concerning bugs due to the cdimage software, against ubuntu-cdimage
<lool> It's a separate project which represents issues in the images (image format, image name, scripts creating the images, missing files in the image etc.)
<plars> ok, thought so... istr seeing one that didn't fit either of those, but I can't remember where it was
<lool> The cdimage team deals with these
<ogra_> file it against lool then
<plars> hopefully things like that will be rare
<plars> heh
<NCommander> ubuntu-bug -p lool :-)
<NCommander> Ok
<lool> plars: Unfortunately, we're a team with a good load of cdimage bugs  :)  image additions, image formats etc. are all our league
<NCommander> Can someone send me the sparknotes version of what we just discussed?
<NCommander> Or better yet
<NCommander> Update the wiki, and then ping me?
<lool> NCommander: I'm telepathy-ing it to you, close your eyes
<NCommander> Hrm, so that's the answer to everything.
<plars> NCommander: basically, I have an action to update the wiki, and someone needs an action to create those teams... I can take both but may need to ping someone if I run into trouble creating the teams
<NCommander> [action] plars to update the wiki and to create teams
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to update the wiki and to create teams
<NCommander> DOne
<lool> plars: Happy to help
<lool> plars: But really trivial don't bother
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review (finally)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review (finally)
<plars> I'm a pessimist, lool says 2 clicks and I see 2 exposures where everything could blow up :)
<lool> StevenK: can you make ~ubuntu-unr owned by canonical-mobile, davidm, or me?
<StevenK> Sure, but wish?
<StevenK> Er, which
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paullui)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-connman  (paullui)
<lool> plars: I created ~ubuntu-armel :)
<plars> lool: thanks
<NCommander> didn't we decide on ~ubuntu-arm?
<NCommander> :-)
<plars> no
<lool> StevenK: canonical-mobile?
<StevenK> -amish
<ogra_> didnt you say thats for kernel ?
<GrueMaster> or ubuntu-limb?
<StevenK> lool: Sure
 * NCommander hits StevenK with a buggy
<paulliu> NCommander: ok.
<NCommander> ogra_, I'm just not saying anything at this point
<lool> plars: owner is canonical-mobile; you can change details if you like
<lool> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-armel
<NCommander> paulliu, what's your status on this spec.
<paulliu> NCommander: I just see it today.
<NCommander> paulliu, Oh ...
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> That's easy :-)
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-seeds  (StevenK)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-seeds  (StevenK)
<lool> Drafter plars
<lool> NCommander: eh two secs
<StevenK> Um
 * NCommander stops
<lool> plars: (Did you complete drafting of connman?)
<lool> Oh right it's approved, nevermind
<lool> i'm slow
<StevenK> In progress, waiting for LP changes, tasksel, livecd-rootfs, etc
<plars> lool: to the extent I can, unless anyone wants to add anything
<lool> If it's approved it's perfect!
<lool> StevenK: Needs infrastructure or just your work?
<NCommander> perfection doesn't exist. Its an illusion of the mind or an untenable goal
<NCommander> YOur pick.
<StevenK> lool: The latter, it's underway
<dsas_> /q
<NCommander> [action] mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain  (lool)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain  (lool)
<dsas_> fail.
<StevenK> NCommander: Fail. [topic]
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain  (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-armel-toolchain  (lool)
 * NCommander notes writing the minutes for this meeting is going to be a *explicative deleted*
<lool> That's moved to adam
<lool> Which is why it's need infrastructure
<NCommander> lool, adam == infinity?
<NCommander> Oh, ok
<lool> Once we have qemu buildds we can change the toolchain
<lool> We're going for qemu 0.9
<NCommander> lool, what's our timeline looking like for that?
<lool> As 0.10+ is unstable for him, and works for me :-(
<lool> infinity should hopefully provide qemu buildds soon, but he didn't give any date
<lool> I think we can hope for next week
<NCommander> lool, please make sure we get a virtual porting box so I can move our apport retracer
<NCommander> I don't want to loose that now that we have a stable release
<NCommander> (if thats not possible I'll talk to you on other possibilities)
<lool> NCommander: Could you bring that up with him directly?
<lool> The qemu stuff is just interim really
<lool> We're moving to real hardware ASAP
<lool> Be it B2.5 or Marvell
<NCommander> lool, right, but the porting box is the lowest priority thing we need in the DC
<lool> What works and we have enough of and IS will take :)
<NCommander> So I don't want it overlooked; I might be able to run apport-retracer outside the DC though (there is no technical limitation on that, but I'll have to get approval)
<NCommander> ANyway
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-arm  (plars)
<plars> not really time to (officially) start these two yet
<plars> I've done some prep work for them, but that's about it at this point
<NCommander> BTW, a quick annoucement: StevenK has implemented our first spec this cycle
<ogra_> last week already
 * StevenK wins
<ogra_> no news
<plars> yay
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-freescale-desktop  (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-freescale-desktop  (NCommander)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-freescale-desktop  (ogra)
<ogra_> no kernel yet
<ogra_> but ongoing
<NCommander> [topic] karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-marvell-desktop  (NCommander)
<NCommander> No hardware yet
<NCommander> But I did break down the TODO list on the wiki earlier today, I'll put these in the whiteboard and find victims^W volunteers.
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-m... (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-m... (ogra)
<NCommander> ...
<ogra_> approved ... not started
<lool> We have /some/ hardware for marvell; just not very stable; fortunately we're getting more
<ogra_> needs the new redboot source too
<NCommander> ogra, feel free to ping me once that materializes
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-wubi  (StevenK)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-wubi  (StevenK)
<StevenK> Waiting for -seeds
 * ogra_ wants to see mobile-unr-karmic-wubi-armel :)
<StevenK> At this point
<NCommander> ogra, with a windows ce installer?
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader  (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader  (NCommander)
<NCommander> Successful proof of concept
<ogra_> indeed
<NCommander> But I ran into an interesting hitch
<NCommander> I have no ARM hardware that can kexec
<ogra_> fix kexec
<NCommander> On x86, I have hardware that can kexec, but breaks if you access /dev/fb0 before doing so (known bug in kexec upstream)
<NCommander> ogra, ENOTAKERNELHACKER
<ogra_> the hw you have needs to support it
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> I found that the PS3 does support both
<NCommander> I'm tryng to justify buying one for myself for ... work purposes
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> (I also tried on my SPARC (couldn't get /dev/fb0 to work), and on the ia64 (don't ask))
<NCommander> I'm currently asking my loco to see if someone can loan me some PPC hardware shortterm for this
<NCommander> Upstream is working on a curses based UI
<NCommander> But its not expected to land for a few more weeks.
<NCommander> I'm filing feature requests and helping them get a roadmap of what we need to implement to make this fly.
<NCommander> I"ll skip the UNR specs
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (pauliu)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-application-res (pauliu)
<plars> looks like that one still needs drafting
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui (ogra)
<ogra_> approved, in the works ...
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds (lool)
<ogra_> waiting for thye LP team to rename the project
<NCommander> lool, ?
<ogra_> asleep ... nearl 1am :P
<lool> That was deping on the qemu stuff
<ogra_> +y
<lool> I didn't make more progress on it this week
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (lool)
<ogra_> heh
 * ogra_ wasnt aware
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<ogra_> drafting, needs more papaerwork i didnt manage yet
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<ogra_> will be approved before next meeting
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (ogra)
<ogra_> thats dyfet
<dyfet> yep
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop (dyfet)
 * GrueMaster hands NCommander a pair of glasses.
<dyfet> It seems a "lubuntu movement" has also separately emerged...
<NCommander> GrueMaster, I'm reading about how Michael Jackson died on the Chumby ...
 * ogra_ hands NCommander https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<NCommander> ogra, I got it
<ogra_> he dies on the chumby ? now thats news
<NCommander> [topic] (mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting (plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  (mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting (plars)
<ogra_> *died
<NCommander> ogra, no, I pulled the news up
<plars> just drafted, needs approval
<NCommander> Farrah Fawcett also died
<NCommander> [topic] Roadmap Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap Review
<NCommander> [topic] ubuntu-mobile-voice-user-interface (dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-mobile-voice-user-interface (dyfet)
<GrueMaster> Uh, what about mobile-unr-karmic-applications?
<NCommander> Ack
<dyfet> This has only a few items in karmic timeframe, and one of them have been picked up by the community
<NCommander> I missed one
<NCommander> sorry
<NCommander> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-applications (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> I've pinged a couple of people on OEM & DX to work with me on reviewing the current stack.  No response so far.
<NCommander> For the specs that we're tracking on other teams
<GrueMaster> Also, desktop is talking about switching to banshee from rythymbox.
<NCommander> Who's been following those ?
<NCommander> (i.e., who can report status)
<NCommander> ok then ...
<NCommander> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<NCommander> I got an annoucement
<NCommander> We're in DIF now
 * ogra_ too
<NCommander> ogra, go for it
<GrueMaster> DIF?
<ogra_> i might go to linuxtag depending on how early i get up tomorrow and how i feel about it
<StevenK> Debian Import Freeze'
<ajmitch> debian import freeze, no more autosyncing
<ogra_> that means i wont be at the call if i doo
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-06-26
<NCommander> what is linuxtag?
<ogra_> biggest german linux summit
<ogra_> its running since wed. in berlin
<ogra_> linuxtag.de
<ogra_> runs until sat. evening
<NCommander> If that's it
<NCommander> I'm going to close the meeting now
<lool> I just wanted to ask about work items
<NCommander> lool, shoot
<lool> Please list work items associated with a spec in its whiteboard
<lool> e.g.:
<lool> Work items:
<lool> need to froozle
<lool> implement badle
<lool> etc.
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to put work items in the desktop (and other specs)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to put work items in the desktop (and other specs)
<lool> Once one is completed, change it to DONE
<lool> e.g.
<lool> need to froozle: DONE
<lool> That's all
<NCommander> Alright
<NCommander> anything else?
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
 * ogra_ implements badle if anyone explains what it is
<NCommander> O_.;?
 * NCommander is suprised davidm_ isn't back
<ogra_> he is rocketing or preparing for it
<NCommander> That's tomorrow I think
<NCommander> I think we've set a record for the longest team meeting for the Mobile team in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> shooting is tomorrow ... surely needs a lot preparation
<NCommander> ogra, stick an engine in it, stick a plug, push the button
<NCommander> Be ready to duct when it returns to Earth
<NCommander> That was my experiences with rocketry :-)
<ogra_> you underestimate the size of his things :)
<NCommander> ogra, so run insead of just dodge :-)?
<ogra_> anyway, go close the meeting ...
<NCommander> I think we can end this
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:04.
<NCommander> Look, only 4 minutes over!
<ogra_> phew
<GrueMaster> My experiences always ended badly.  Not a good idea to load a pound of black powder in the nose cone of a model rocket.
<plars> (+1 hour)
<NCommander> plars, time is relative
<NCommander> GrueMaster, that sounds like a Darwin Award nominee if someone died.
 * ogra_ takes back everything he said about NCommanders german like accuracy
<paulliu> Go to bad for 2hr sleep.
<GrueMaster> No deaths.  But I did blow up a rock.  Kind of cool.
<ogra_> sleep tight
<NCommander> ogra, I was efficent, I broke up what would have taken 3-4 meetings into one
<NCommander> ogra, :-)
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> all it cost was the European souls
<GrueMaster> They have souls?  Oh, yea.  They're not in Austrailia.
 * GrueMaster runs
<NCommander> GrueMaster, as a rule of thumb, its dangerous to taint the Austraillians.
<NCommander> GrueMaster, you might find $VALUED_POSITION in pieces where pieces is greater than 1
<GrueMaster> Kind of like tazmanian devils?
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> *POSSESSION
 * pitti waves
 * slangasek waves
 * mvo waves too
<lool> Hey!
 * fader also waves.
 * apw fades in ...
 * leoquant \o/
<sbeattie> hey
<dendrobates> o/
<slangasek> mdz, pgraner, davidm_, Riddell, Hobbsee, ScottK: ping
<lool> davidm is on leave todat
<ScottK> \o
<lool> *today
<slangasek> ok
 * apw is covering for pgraner 
 * mvo is covering for robbie
 * ScottK is trying to understand debian-cd atm
<slangasek> robbie is traveling today, and cjwatson is off
<fader> heno is also traveling today
<mdz> slangasek: howdy
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> I think that accounts for everyone, then
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-06-26
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-06-26
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> fader, sbeattie: hi
<fader> heno is not available today so I'll update what I can and see if anyone else wants to add anything :)
<fader> The QA specs are proceeding quite well; everything is approved and specs are in progress right now.
<fader> sbeattie: any news on the apport-adoption spec that should be brought up?
<slangasek> (hrm, what's the moin magic for linking to blueprints?)
<pitti> UbuntuSpec:foo
<slangasek> ta
<sbeattie> fader: not that I'm aware of, but heno was driving that.
<fader> Right... just wasn't sure if anyone had any additional updates and you seemed like the right guy to ask.
<fader> (Anything anyone else wants to add or should I move on to certification testing?)
<slangasek> that's a non-archive-touching spec, right?  so no need to dwell on it if you guys don't know status
<sbeattie> slangasek: correct, no changes to the archive for that one.
<cr3> speaking of blueprints, the live cd testing is currently deployed and in final states of beta: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/certify-web/+spec/karmic-qa-cert-install-from-live-cd-images
<fader> cr3: This is cool... I've seen that we've been getting live cd results \o/
<slangasek> excellent :)
<ScottK> The ISO tracker falls under QA, right?
<slangasek> yes
<cr3> slangasek: the desktop images for multiple flavours of ubuntu are being tested on a daily basis: ubuntu, mythbuntu, xubuntu, etc.
<ScottK> Unless debian-cd causes my brain to fall out of my head, I think we'll have at least some basic kubuntu-netbook images for Alpha 3.
<ScottK> So it'll need to go on the tracker ....
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to get kubuntu-netbook added to the ISO tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to get kubuntu-netbook added to the ISO tracker
<slangasek> thanks
<ScottK> Thank you.
<fader> ScottK: Do you have specific test cases for it?
<fader> Or can we use the generic Kubuntu ones?
<ScottK> fader: It'll start out the same as Kubuntu, except for the install process and we'll evolve from there.
<fader> ScottK: Cool, thanks.
<ScottK> Start with that.
<cr3> ScottK: will the kubuntu-netbook images use d-i and/or casper+ubiquity?
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you please add an action for rgreening to document kubuntu-netbook install process for the test cases?
<cr3> ScottK: also, will they be usb images or cd imges?
<ScottK> cr3: It'll be a casper+ubiquity ISO that we intend be installed via USB.
<slangasek> [ACTION] rgreening to document kubuntu-netbook install process for ISO tracker test cases
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rgreening to document kubuntu-netbook install process for ISO tracker test cases
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<cr3> ScottK: if you could being an actual iso image installable from CD in addition to the USB image, it could be automatically tested
<cr3> s/if you could being/if it could be/
<ScottK> cr3: Size will be the only issue.  We'll see about that.
<cr3> ScottK: DVD is good too
<ScottK> It'll fit on a dvd.
<cr3> ScottK: feel free to keep me in the loop
<fader> ScottK: Size isn't as much of a concern in the automated testing as we just use the ISO image directly rather than burning it to disc
<ScottK> fader: Should work just fine then.
<fader> Okay, so on the topic of automated testing...
<fader> Current karmic coverage: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader> There was an issue in the lab preventing the CD images from being downloaded.  cr3 has fixed this and we are pulling images now and should be able to test again once they have completed downloading.
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader> (This affected only laptop testing, BTW.)
<fader> Bug 384861 is still affecting server testing.  It's in 'fix released' but it doesn't look like it's made it into any ISO images yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384861 in linux "Broadcom NetXtreme II (BCM5708) not detected by installer [karmic]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384861
<fader> We've also done a large round of 8.04.3 testing: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sru-testing/8.04.3.html
<fader> This looked very good -- all 'pass' across the board.
<cr3> fader: err, the issue is that we only have a T1 in one of the labs which is being overwhelmed now that we're testing desktop images. that's not going to be fixed until mid-july
<fader> sbeattie informs me that we'll need to do another round of testing as the images from 20090624 didn't have hardy-proposed enabled; this should happen automatically once the new images are on cdimages.u.c
<fader> cr3: Sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought that the images were not being downloaded for some reason and that you had started the download on Wednesday.  Is the issue that it just takes that long to download them rather than a blockage?
<cr3> fader: I wouldn't want to give the impression that we have issues within our control that are preventing images from being tested
<cr3> fader: they've been downloading for the whole week
<fader> cr3: Okay, I definitely misunderstood then :(
<slangasek> fader: hmm, let me check the status of 384861; maybe we need a d-i bump yet
<slangasek> no, that's done
<slangasek> cr3: in that case, the server ISO testing for certification should surely be given priority?
<cr3> slangasek: servers and desktops have been tested, only laptops are affected
<fader> slangasek: When looking at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20090626.1/karmic-server-amd64.list it looks like we have linux-generic_2.6.30.10.10_amd64.deb but the bug says it's fixed in 2.6.30.10.11
<slangasek> fader: hrm, it was fixed in the metapackage?
<fader> slangasek: To be honest I'm not sure... can we have a quick discussion after the end of the meeting to figure out what's up with it/
<fader> ?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to get fader server ISOs including the fix for Bug:384861
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to get fader server ISOs including the fix for Bug:384861
<slangasek> fader: yes
<fader> Cool, thanks
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sru-testing/8.04.3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sru-testing/8.04.3.html
<fader> That's all I've got for certification
<slangasek> ah, all passes on 8.04.3 - nice!  Is that testing complete?
<slangasek> or are there more boxes to be tested yet?
<fader> slangasek: It's complete but sbeattie said that the images did not have hardy-proposed enabled
<slangasek> right
<fader> So if there are new images we will automatically test them
<slangasek> just about to ask that
<slangasek> there are
<fader> All the hardware tests are complete modulo the laptops (that have not gotten the images yet :( )
<slangasek> 20090626 server has -proposed enabled
<fader> Okay, these should get automatically tested once the images are synced.
<fader> I will update the sru-testing page with the results once they are in.
<slangasek> and is syncing of those images blocked on the bandwidth issue?
<cr3> slangasek: that might be overwritten by the installation process
<fader> slangasek: It's blocked only for laptops.  Servers and desktops are fine.
<slangasek> if the desktop ISO testing is causing contention, even just for laptops, then it really needs to be bumped down the list
<slangasek> cr3: what might be?
<cr3> slangasek: my framework assumes static pockets
<slangasek> cr3: if the framework doesn't pull from the -proposed archive included on the CDs, then it's not suitable for point release testing
<slangasek> let's move on; cr3: we can discuss this after the meeting?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<slangasek> pitti, rickspencer3: hi
<cr3> slangasek: cdimage testing tests just that, the image. what you are requesting is archive testing which will land during the karmic cycle
<pitti> As usual, current status (including RC bugs) is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<cr3> slangasek: sure
<pitti> == Blueprints ==
<pitti> This week we investigated the integration of empathy into main and desktop, which turned out to be much more effort than originally anticipated, so this will land later. Might slip alpha-3
<pitti> new gdm is almost ready to land, just needs two bug fixes; will probably happen next week
<pitti> == Other status ==
<pitti> On the X.org front, things are going rather well. KMS for -intel is now enabled by default, -ati under testing; nouveau is still rather brittle, so it's not yet determined whether it will become the default. Upstream is reasonably responsive to bug reports and providing some patches
<pitti> We had a detailled session with the OLS team about which packages they are going to land, how/who to package/MIR, etc.; no blockers here, just an awful lot to do
<pitti> RC bugs didn't get a lot of attention, most people are working full steam on the more urgent specs (which make good progress) for now
<slangasek> cr3: no, I'm not requesting  archive testing
<slangasek> (whee, intel driver freeze)
<pitti> ugh; hadn't had one in weeks
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> slangasek: it freezes when you say "intel bug fix" on IRC
<slangasek> maybe so :)
<pitti> oh, and about an hour ago I discovered that today's dailies didn't build; at all
<pitti> no idea why :/
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/karmic/ubuntu/latest/ looks fine
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/karmic/ubuntu/latest/ looks fine
<slangasek> pitti: because according to the report for the past couple of days, ubuntu-desktop isn't installable
<pitti> I fixed components and stuff yesterday, so it should actually work now (had been broken for a few days)
<slangasek> (I'm guessing)
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> we can look at that afterwards, certainly
<pitti> oh, hang on, I'm lying
<pitti> ubiquity python error -> package inistall failure
<pitti> yep
 * pitti will report a bug
<pitti> so, any questions anyone?
<lool> pitti: Can you ping us if you switch default apps?
<pitti> lool: okay
<lool> We'd like to follow changes in UNR such as default player
<pitti> slangasek: bug 392424 FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392424 in ubiquity "package ubiquity 1.13.5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392424
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> no other questions here, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<slangasek> lool: hello
<lool> Hey
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic this new page lin
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic this new page lin
<lool> ks to our Roadmap overview page and to relevant list of specs, bugs etc.
<lool> This week saw a lot of work on specs, planned karmic images/spins are now tracked as real specs, a couple of specs were demoted to drafting, some new specs were added documenting potential future work which isn't fully decided yet.
<slangasek> (sorry, still a little slow here, using my backup desktop while trying to get a crash report off this X freeze)
<lool> Various bug fixing efforts on mono and thunderbird issues.
<lool> Progress on the qemu buildds work which is aimed at A3.
<lool> Kernel team reported some progress on Babbage 1 patches; still fighting some boot issues and then will move to Babbage 2.
<lool> (I tried to move most things to the above wiki page; this is all I have for a high level summary dumped on IRC)
<lool> We also borrowed the Work items thing, are using pm-dashboard; we're stealing good ideas  ;)
<slangasek> lool: aimed at A3> but no spec targeted, that I saw?
<slangasek> (perhaps it doesn't need one)
<lool> slangasek: It's the toolchain one
<slangasek> oh
<lool> Which covers all we need to move to ARMv7 including buildds
<lool> Could have been two specs indeed
<lool> The thing is that we were hoping for hardware   :-/
<slangasek> right
<lool> There are links to specs status and karmic bugs on the page; the milestoned bugs and specs are covered on the page; any question on these?
<lool> (I'm happy to work on improving specific areas of the reporting page if you'd like different information/formatting)
<slangasek> no questions from me, thanks; the page seems to provide a good summary
<slangasek> anyone else have questions?
<lool> (NB: I wont be around next week (GUADEC))
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<slangasek> lool: ack (and thanks)
<slangasek> apw: hi
<apw> hi
<apw> Feature status is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic.  Things are generally progressing, the only specs which are not are not release items.  Apparmor patches are being tested currently.  Arm integration is still ongoing.  Kernel  v2.6.31-rc1 has just released and we are hoping for an upload for that this week.
<apw> You called out two bugs for the kernel:
<apw> Bug:359338: apparmor paths broken when using ecryptfs -- Still waiting on the updated AA patches to be ready, currently being tested. As its not in currently I don't believe anyone can hit this issue.
<apw> Bug:290153: Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt -- Investigation progressing slowly, bug appears to be exhibiting in Karmic also.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> (I just add a question for bjf/amitk; wanted to check whether they needed for testing / access to some hardware, but I'll check with them out of band)
<lool> s/add/had
<slangasek> apw: what can we do to make bug #290153 move along faster?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
<apw> to be frank its been rather ignored, we had thin feedback from the users, and have not chased them more agressivly
<slangasek> so currently blocking on user feedback?
<apw> i've put that one up on my list for a review, there may be relevant changes in 2.6.31-rc1
<ScottK> apw: I have a machine that has that bug.  I can run test kernels on it if needed.
<apw> in big part waiting on information yes, but a review today shows some hope of some of the conflated issues being resolved by latest kerenl
<apw> ScottK, excellent, i'll put you on my testers list, i think testing the next karmic kernel will be worth doing
<ScottK> apw: It's a 'production' machine (my kids' desktop), so I won't upgrade, but I can test a kernel.
<ScottK> apw: Just give me a ping.
<apw> ScottK, heh thanks
<apw> thats it from me
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> anyone else with kernel questions?
<slangasek> apw: fwiw, in looking at bug #384890, I think we have an additional kernel bug here affecting ThinkPads - my power button doesn't show any kernel input event at all
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384890 in hal "power button not bringing up shutdown dialog [karmic]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384890
<slangasek> I'll file a proper bug report 'n'such, but figure I'll throw that out there so y'all are expecting it
<apw> slangasek, thanks ... more bugs yay
<apw> subscribe me to it pleasae
<slangasek> can do
<pitti> slangasek: on that note, WDYT about removing all the acpi-suport event scripts and sending out a large call for testing what gets broken?
<pitti> to identify the remaining ACPI keys which the kernel doesn't convert into input events early?
<pitti> (I don't think that there's too many of them still)
<slangasek> pitti: I think we can do a better job of determining which ones are still in use by reading them instead
<slangasek> anything that uses acpi_fakekey is broken, we know that; but there are other scripts firing that don't
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<slangasek> mvo: hi
<pitti> slangasek: you mean checking kernel sources for the acpi event numbers?
<mvo> hi
<mvo> Current status: [link]  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<mvo> Blueprints targeted for alpha3:
<mvo>   * Spec:foundations-karmic-usb-creator-for-windows - latest status is that its likely to make it for alpha3
<mvo>    * Spec:foundations-karmic-rsyslogd - looks good
<mvo>    * Spec:foundations-karmic-i586-support - archive rebuild to get stats in progress (not sure alpha3 is realistic for this)
<mvo>    * Spec:foundations-karmic-apturl-policy - improvements for software-properties mostly in place, looks good for alpha3
<slangasek> pitti: no, I mean reading the scripts?
<mvo>    * Spec:foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging: not started yet, may not make it for alpha3
<mvo>    * Spec:foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape: foundations part of the spec (non-interactive upgrade support via update-manager) ready
<mvo> There was a boot speed sprint in london this week that went pretty well.
<mvo> thats what I have, if you have specific questions I'm happy to answer them
<slangasek> i586-support> I'm told the rebuilds have started this week, but that it takes on the order of 2-4 days for each one, so we're looking at next week or the week after before we have any numbers to compare
<slangasek> mvo: is a3 still the right target for bug #369820?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369820 in update-manager "Stealthy update-manager with virtual desktops" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369820
<slangasek> (should it be assigned to you? :)
<mvo> slangasek: yes and yes, I will try to attack it for a3, might slip for a4 but I target a3
<slangasek> ok
<mvo> the other (#392144 - fixed by pitti, thanks)
<mvo> and 364616 targeted for a4 now
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> mvo: well, it screwed my box entirely :)
<pitti> mvo: (but it helped to find out that the Dell support hotline is pretty good :) )
<mvo> heh :)
<slangasek> anything else from anyone for Foundations?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> mvo: thanks
<dendrobates>    * Bug:326768: mysqld_safe thinks mysqld has crashed when it hasn't - on target.  Mathiaz is preparing an upload
<dendrobates>    * Spec:server-karmic-screen-profiles-popup-info - done
<dendrobates>    * Spec:server-karmic-pristine-daily-virt-builds - on target
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates>    * Spec:server-karmic-update-motd-inotify - deferred - blocked on work keybuk is doing.
<dendrobates>    * Spec:server-karmic-kvm-qemu-packaging - on target - pending peer review.
<dendrobates> hi
<slangasek> dendrobates: what work is it blocked on?  upstart?
<Keybuk> it could be implemented a different way, of ourse
<dendrobates> kirkland: can you elaborate?
<Keybuk> but that different way seems rather expensive given Upstart will have the required support for karmic+1
<slangasek> so it's deferred until Leaping Lizard?
<kirkland> Keybuk: we spoke about this at UDS
<kirkland> Keybuk: update-motd needs an inotify daemon that can watch a directory
<dendrobates> slangasek: that was not my understanding, but this is not an essential feature,.
<Keybuk> kirkland: I know ... ;)
<kirkland> Keybuk: we have implemented based on such a daemon provided by a package in universe
<slangasek> dendrobates: indeed, but the 10-minute cronjob is a nuisance for me when on battery :)
<kirkland> Keybuk: we can use that opportunistically, Suggesting the package, or MIR it
<dendrobates> slangasek: agreed
<kirkland> Keybuk: but rather than MIR that package, I'd rather use Upstart if possible
<Keybuk> kirkland: adding yet-another-daemon to the default install just for one release seems a bit wasteful
<pitti> or perhaps not have the cronjob on desktop installs?
<pitti> server installs are less prone to running on battery, and on desktops it's rather uninteresting
<Keybuk> especially something like an inotify daemon, which is going to end up having tracker-like properties
<slangasek> we should probably not have detailed design discussions in-band here
<kirkland> slangasek: agreed
<kirkland> slangasek: i have re-targeted that spec at alpha4
<kirkland> slangasek: Keybuk chances upstart might have the feature by alpha4?
<slangasek> sounds fine for now
<Keybuk> kirkland: zero
<Keybuk> kirkland: unless you mean alpha 4 of karmic+1, in which case moderate ;)
<kirkland> Keybuk: okay, thanks, i'll proceed with MIR'ing an inotify daemon for now
<ScottK> slangasek: Could we make an appointment for Monday for executing a clamav + rdepends backport?  I've got Hardy/Intrepid all ready and will have Dapper by then.
<pitti> kirkland: :-(
<kirkland> Keybuk: and replace the functionality when upstart comes to term
<Keybuk> kirkland: I'd rather we just deferred the spec
<Keybuk> kirkland: an inotify daemon is not a trivial thing to consider adding to all our seeds
<pitti> for desktops that's overkill
<kirkland> Keybuk: i'm okay with that;   dendrobates/slangasek?
<slangasek> ScottK: yes, can do
<dendrobates> kirkland: agreed
<ScottK> slangasek: Great.  I'll ping you then.  What timezone will you be in?
<dendrobates> with pitti, that is.
<dendrobates> and keybuk
<kirkland> slangasek: pitti: like said, we can opportunitistically use an inotify daemon, if installed on the system
<slangasek> kirkland: deferral is fine, it means I'll be your ally in nagging Keybuk ;)
<slangasek> ScottK: PDT
<kirkland> without depending on it
<pitti> kirkland: ah, I misunderstood you then; right
<kirkland> fall back to the cronjob
<Keybuk> slangasek: you're the one who said I couldn't put the new Upstart in after beta ;)
<kirkland> rather, continue using the cronjob, unless someone such as slangasek hates that, in which case he installs the suggested inotify package
<slangasek> Keybuk: the nagging would only happen for karmic+1, of course. :)
<slangasek> kirkland: how is installing that package going to make the cronjob disappear?
<slangasek> I hate the cronjob because it's a cronjob that fires every 10 minutes - making it a no-op cronjob doesn't change the synchronous log writes :)
<kirkland> slangasek: haven't thought about that yet;  right now, it just additionally uses inotifyd if available
<kirkland> slangasek: that's a bug in the pam logger IMHO
<Keybuk> kirkland: which daemon are you using?
 * kirkland suggests design discussions ---> #ubuntu-devel
<kirkland> Keybuk: iwatch
<kirkland> Keybuk: but we've toyed with several
<slangasek> anything else for server team?
<dendrobates> nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: hello
 * ScottK waves.
<ScottK> No major MOTU news.
<ScottK> We're rolling along wishing there were more people to get stuff done as usual.
<ScottK> In Kubuntu news we are working on packaging KDE 4.3 RC 1 right now.
<slangasek> who's signed on for motu-release for this cycle?
<ScottK> 4.3.whatever is ready is our target for Karmic
<ScottK> slangasek: IIRC the team is unchanged from the last cycle.
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> I do have a debian-cd branch I'd like feedback on for kubuntu-netbook. lp:~kitterman/+junk/kne-debian-cd
<ScottK> I gave up on trying to understand debian-cd and went with the cargo cult approach. so it may be completely off base.
<ScottK> slangasek: At some point we need to discuss post archive-reorg release team structure.
<ScottK> I think that's about it.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek, cjwatson? to review lp:~kitterman/+junk/kne-debian-cd
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek, cjwatson? to review lp:~kitterman/+junk/kne-debian-cd
<ScottK> Thanks.
<slangasek> sounds good then
<lool> I guess crontab of whatever sets project needs to be changed as well, but looked okay from a quick look
<ScottK> lool: Thanks.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ScottK> slangasek: As far as I understand the process, I think once that's pushed we should be ready to roll iso's for kubuntu-netbook (at least the externally visible bits)
<slangasek> ScottK: should be; I'll have a closer look later today, anyway
<slangasek> anything else to discuss today?
<ScottK> Thanks.
<slangasek> I don't have anything to say about ISO sizes today that wouldn't be entirely repeating myself
<lool> I think I saved some small space by dropping sg3-utils
<lool> But that's negligible I guess
<lool> Looks like we're done!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:21.
<slangasek> hrm
 * slangasek pokes MootBot 
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> there we are :)
 * ScottK runs off to do $WORK
<lool> Cheers all
<pitti> thanks all
 * mvo waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-28
<flatsix> quit
 * MichealH|Laptop has got his IRC Log Server thingy Sorted :)
<shadeslayer> \o
<bulldog98> hi shadeslayer
<mdeslaur> yellow
<kees> mdeslaur: green
<mdeslaur> BLACK!
<mdeslaur> we ready?
<kees> jdstrand: here?
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> sbeattie: ping
<jjohansen> \o
<sbeattie> hey
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:11. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [topic] stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  stand-up report
<kees> i'm on community.  will be continuing to chase down some stuff in the kernel for yama, and the compiler for hardening testsuites this week
<kees> I did any of my merges that were worth merging last week.  (though I guess debmirror still needs merging technically...)
<kees> my mind is empty... uhm, mdeslaur, you're up.  :)
<sbeattie> (yay monday morning!)
<mdeslaur> so, I'll continue my work on openssl this week
<mdeslaur> hardy's renegotiation is failing for me currently, as it seems it is compiled without tls extensions
<mdeslaur> and changing that will break ABI
<mdeslaur> yay
<mdeslaur> so I'll be working on that
<mdeslaur> and pretty much just that
<mdeslaur> over and out
<mdeslaur> jdstrand?
<jdstrand> so, surprisingly, I am working on firefox
 * kees hugs jdstrand
<kees> jdstrand: you've got a break now while openjdk-6 compiles for 70 hours.  ;)
<mdeslaur> we're not worthy! we're not worthy!
<ofirk> the Kubuntu meeting starts in 15 minutes, right?
<jdstrand> hardy and lucid should go out tomorrow. upstream firedrilled a 3.6.6 release that needs to be retested
<jdstrand> kees: hehe-- I had my people kill off openjdk :P
<kees> :)
<mdeslaur> openjdk got whacked
<nxvl> why they keep doing that
<jdstrand> the nice thing about 3.6.6 is that we will probably be the first distro with it ;)
<mdeslaur> Ubuntu rocks FarmVille!
<jdstrand> nxvl: the new OOP thingie broke flash
<jdstrand> nxvl: under certain circumstances on low powered machines
 * nxvl hates mozilla more every release
<jdstrand> nxvl: you know, the stuff you are interested in :P
<nxvl> jdstrand: ohhh, yeah, suuuure
<jdstrand> other than that, we need to wait on openjdk for jaunty and karmic before releasing 3.6 for them
<jdstrand> I am hoping to get sudo out this week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: openjdk for jaunty and karmic will be 6b18 based?
<jdstrand> and am on triage, though I am off from Thu through Mon
<kees> jdstrand: I can take your triage this week
<kees> jdstrand: though I might make sbeattie do it with me.  ;)
<sbeattie> kees: fairy nuff.
<kees> :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: the plan is to backport what is in lucid-proposed to jaunty and karmic, so yeah. if it passes the tests, we will get the server team to test it with tomcat and eucalyptus
<jdstrand> kees: oh, thanks!
<jdstrand> sbeattie: once firefox is done building in the ppa, chriscoulson will upload one of the openjdks
<jdstrand> sbeattie: then when it is done, upload the other. this should give room for -security builds and alpha2
<jdstrand> sbeattie: do you have a preference which is uploaded?
<jdstrand> (first)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: it doesn't matter.
<jdstrand> k
<sbeattie> my fear is that I can just about guarantee there will be some small amount of regressions in the devtools portion of the JCK testing kit with 6b18.
<jdstrand> I did get to my tcpdump and cron merges last week. I'll probably do sudo this week (as part of my update)
<jdstrand> that is all from me
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: yeah. we'll have to evaluate it and see which more work, backporting fixes or backporting plugin stuff
<sbeattie> For me, now that firefox is requiring openjdk uploads, I've been roped in to do JCK testing.
 * jdstrand feels bad :(
<sbeattie> It's continuation of work I was doing on the QA team, so it makes sense.
<sbeattie> My goal is to finish up work I was doing to automate setting up and running the testsuites as much as possible, to hand off to QA going forward.
<kees> sounds good
<jdstrand> hopefully that work can be pushed back to QA after this, and in such a manner that we can potentially verify security/SRUs going forward
 * jdstrand isn't sure how feasible that is
<kees> we've got 5 minutes before the next meeting starts -- that it for stand-up report?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: that's my hope, too; the annoying bit is even with automation, the runtime component requires manual interaction and takes several hours.
<Riddell> ofirk: we'll move kubuntu meeting to #kubuntu-devel
<kees> Riddell: we're almost done
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that isn't several hours of manual intervention though, is it?
<sbeattie> kees: yes, that's it for me.
<kees> [topic] other stuff
<MootBot> New Topic:  other stuff
<ofirk> Riddell: thanks
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yes, I believe so.
<jdstrand> ah bummer
<kees> anyone got any other things for the security team?  nxvl, jjohansen: anything you guys need?
<jdstrand> I was hoping it was a little intervention, then it just takes a long time
<nxvl> kees: yes, but firefox needs to be updated, so no :(
<nxvl> :P
<jjohansen> not me
<kees> nxvl: heh.  yeah, it's a lot of work, but i'll be worth it.  :)
<kees> okay, thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
<sbeattie> woot thanks.
<jdstrand> nxvl: btw, I think 3.6.6 for hardy lpia is ready, and i386 is currently building
<jdstrand> thanks kees!
 * nxvl cries
<jdstrand> heh
 * maco waves to lex79
 * ikonia waves to maco
 * lex79 hugs maco
 * shadeslayer waves to *
 * a|wen just waves wildly
<Riddell> good evening friends
<Riddell> how are we today?
<a|wen> evening Riddell
<neversfelde> evening
<JontheEchidna> o/
<lex79> o/
<shadeslayer> evening all :D
<agateau> evening!
<apachelogger> lo
<Riddell> neversfelde, apachelogger, JontheEchidna, ScottK: council poke
<ScottK> Here
<apachelogger> ouch
<JontheEchidna> here
<neversfelde> here
<DarkwingDuck_> Did I make it?
 * bulldog98 waves back and waves to everybody he hasnât waved to
<shadeslayer> DarkwingDuck: yeah :)
<Riddell> first thing is to welcome the new council members
 * ScottK has never been on a council before.
<ikonia> new council members ?
<ikonia> which council ?
<Riddell> and thank the ones whose time came to an end
<Riddell> kubuntu council
<shadeslayer> ikonia: Kubuntu Council
<ikonia> ah
<Riddell> thanks to nightrose, seele and me!
<yuriy> hi everyone
<ofirk> I'm back
<ryanakca> Hi too
<Riddell> welcome along ScottK, neversfelde and little me
<Riddell> may we not have to vote much
<rbelem> Hello guys
<Riddell> shall we start with memberships?
<ryanakca> *nod*
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> ofirk: want to go first?
<ofirk> Riddell: sure
<Riddell> tell us who you are
<ofirk> My name is Ofir Klinger, I am 21 years old
<Riddell> and why you want to be a kubuntu member
<ofirk> I live in Israel near Tel Aviv
<ofirk> I am a student for Electrical Engineering at Bar-Ilan University
<ofirk> I started learning website building 7 years ago. I know PHP, HTML, CSS and JS. I also know how to write plugins for Wordpress and how to build websites using Wordpress and of course, Drupal. I like building and maintaining websites, currently I have 5 websites which I maintain.
<ofirk> I am an OSS user in the last 7 years. Starting with PHP which was my first open source software. I then moved to Firefox and OpenOffice. Later I discovered Ubuntu when it was in its 6.06 LTS version.
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/OfirKlinger  https://edge.launchpad.net/~klinger-ofir
<ofirk> I began using Ubuntu 6.06 and exploring the Ubuntu world. I always wanted to move to Kubuntu but KDE3 was a little complicated for me. When Kubuntu moved to KDE4, I switched to it. Since then I feel proud about the great operation system Kubuntu is, and the great developers behind it.
<ofirk> I always wanted to contribute to Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I tried to get into C++, python and other desktop oriented programming and never succeeded. Hence, I helped translating Ubuntu through LP.
<ofirk> After Karmic launch, the Project Timelord was announced. I saw the announcement on the kubuntu-devel mailing-list and decided to offer my help where I know the most: Website Building and Maintaining. I replied to the announcement and Ryan got back to me.
<ofirk> I worked on the new Kubuntu website for more than 7 months. The site was build to give first good  impression on Kubuntu. Therefore, I worked for many days on the site structure, based on what the avg. user would look for and where he would look. Then I moved to the look&feel, trying to give a nice and comfort look to the site. I also included elements from Kubuntu itself.
<ofirk> I am constantly searching of ways to improve Kubuntu's image on the web by building professional sites (Kubuntu's main website, Kubuntu's wiki, Kubuntu's shipit website).
<ofirk> I am planing to add more features to the website for the next Kubuntu release. Like, multi-language support which includes RTL supports, new or at least update the feature tour and unified look for all Kubuntu websites like the wiki.
<Riddell> what is the quality of internationalation into Hebrew and other semitic languages in Kubuntu?
<ofirk> Not so good
<ScottK> How well does RTL work?
<Riddell> uh oh
<neversfelde> and what is RTL?
<ofirk> There are no many Hebrew translators and RTL is pretty much bad
<a|wen> neversfelde: right-to-left writing
<ofirk> Right-to-Left
<ryanakca> neversfelde: Right to left
<neversfelde> thanks
<apachelogger> a|wen: one can also read :P
<a|wen> apachelogger: not me ;)
<apachelogger> oh, poor you
<Riddell> ofirk: what still needs doing before we can tell the sysadmins to make the new website live?
<ofirk> Riddell: I already told them to make it live
<apachelogger> well, I might mention that from what I know our lack of developers who use RTL systems and in general less europeanish languages is a bit of a problem
<Riddell> ofirk: ooh!
<ofirk> I think that in the next couple of days it will be live
<apachelogger> ofirk: does israel have a loco?
<ofirk> apachelogger: yes
<Riddell> ofirk: what tools did you use to make the new website design?
<ofirk> their main field of work is translations
<apachelogger> ofirk: nothing on the promotion side?
<ofirk> NetBeans, Drupal 6, Apache, Mysql, PHP and of course Kubuntu :)
<ofirk> apachelogger: promotion for what?
<apachelogger> the Ubuntu product line
<shadeslayer> ofirk: like promotion of Ubuntu ;)
<Riddell> ofirk: netbeans does HTML?
<ofirk> Riddell: HTML, PHP, CSS, JS (it is not WYSIWYG)
<ofirk> apachelogger:  I mainly worked on the Kubuntu website
<ofirk> the feature tour is kind of promotion to Kubuntu
<apachelogger> ofirk: yeah, but the loco in general, do you happen to know if anything promotional is going on there?
<apachelogger> love the feature tour btw :D
<neversfelde> ofirk: will you focus on making the website better in future or do you have plans to get in touch with other parts of the development?
 * apachelogger always wanted us to have one, and now we finally will <3 <3 <3
<ofirk> apachelogger: yes, but here in Israel you can say that Microsoft roles
<shadeslayer> fyi feature tour has been picked up by kde-www as well,they might make something similar :D
<ofirk> this is a shame since Israel is a good place for new things
 * apachelogger knows that situation ... not much different in austria, just that austria is no good place for new things of any kind :?
<apachelogger> ofirk: What, in your opinion, makes Kubuntu different from other KDE software based distros?
<maco> apachelogger: just good for old music?
<ofirk> I think that the whole idea behind Uubuntu to make things easier and human is Kubuntu uniqness
<apachelogger> maco: not as old as you might think ;)
 * Riddell points ofirk at neversfelde's question
<ofirk> I am sorry, I don't see neversfelde's question, can you repeat it?
<Riddell> 18:42 < neversfelde> ofirk: will you focus on making the website better in future or do you have plans to get in touch with other parts of the development?
<ofirk> As I said above, I am planning to keep working on the website
<Riddell> groovy
<ofirk> As I learned, websites needs contact care
<ryanakca> +1  for Ofir from me (not that I can vote),  the work he's done on the website is really outstanding.
<apachelogger> ofirk: any bets on when we will reach world domination?
<DarkwingDuck> ofirk: What are areas you have seen in Kubuntu that you feel needs to be improved?
<JontheEchidna> +1 on outstanding website/localization work
<ofirk> apachelogger: I hope until 10.10 ;)
<apachelogger> oh perfect
<apachelogger> +1
<apachelogger> to ofirk and that bet
<Riddell> I give ofirk a +1 for persevering so long on the website
<neversfelde> ofirk: great, from my point of view nothing is wrong with focus on a special part, was just interested
<ScottK> Some time after Python 3 replaces Python 2.
<neversfelde> +1 for the great work
 * apachelogger pokes ScottK with the fluffy stick of blinking
<ScottK> +1 from me too.
<apachelogger> perfect then
<Riddell> welcome in ofirk
<apachelogger> ofirk: congrats and welcome
<Riddell> agateau: want to go next?
 * a|wen cheers for ofirk
<agateau> Riddell: ok
<lex79> ofirk: congrats :)
<Riddell> agateau: who are you and why do you like us?
<agateau> Riddell: because you look handsome!
<agateau> More seriously,
<agateau> My name is AurÃ©lien GÃ¢teau, I live in France in a small village near Paris
<Riddell> +1 for agateau!
<DarkwingDuck> O.o *Gets the kneepads* :P
 * apachelogger blinks
<agateau> I am a KDE developer, I maintain Gwenview, used to be active on KIPI plugins and like to fix bugs in KDE, mostly in kdelibs and kdebase.
<agateau> I have been using Kubuntu since Hoary Hedgehog and got more involved when I joined Canonical DX team a little more than a year ago.
<agateau> My work at Canonical led me to create the Ayatana notifications for KDE, the message indicator and now DBusMenu. DBusMenu is used in the new KDE systemtray and is a key component of the upcomi
<agateau> ng global menubar in Maverick.
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AurelienGateau  https://edge.launchpad.net/~agateau
<agateau> The notification thing also started a life of its own as Colibri
<agateau> which I develop on my spare time
<agateau> I have tried to get some work time dedicated to Kubuntu, with varying success. For example I was quite happy to help working on the networkmanagement Plasma applet during Lucid cycle.
<agateau> I think that's all I have to copy'n'paste :)
<ofirk_> Is the meeting over?
<Riddell> the networkmanagement Plasma applet will be making its first default appearance this week in alpha 2
<agateau> great!
<apachelogger> <3 the plasmoid
<Riddell> agateau: you've been at some computer shows promoting kubuntu and KDE?
<agateau> yes, I attend Solutions Linux, a yearly french show
<agateau> I have been holding the KDE booth there for a few years
<a|wen> ofirk_: not at all
<apachelogger> agateau: so, one year and only now you considered to go for membership, what took you so long? :O
<agateau> I am primarily there to promote KDE but give a lot of Kubuntu cd as well
<agateau> apachelogger: being in a delicate position as part of my work for Canonica,
<agateau> *Canonical,
<agateau> I wanted to be sure I get to know the community well enough
<agateau> to request membership
<Riddell> agateau: do you have any plans to get upload privilages in future?
<agateau> I was able to meet some Kubuntu devs at 3 UDS now, which makes me feel a bit more part of the family
<apachelogger> wheter you like us for realz ^^
<agateau> Riddell: I don't think packaging is really my thing
<agateau> Riddell: at least that's not the reason for applying
<agateau> I like to help out Kubuntu by sharing my little knowledge of kdelibs
<agateau> and Qt
<agateau> but I'd also like to be more involved in Kubuntu specific tools
<agateau> as well as default configuration
<apachelogger> agateau: What in your opinion makes Kubuntu different from other KDE software based distributions?
<lex79> agateau: is there a plan for sound menu and amarok?
<agateau> lex79: yes there is
<lex79> good :)
<agateau> apachelogger: I must confess I haven't been looking out a lot these days
<agateau> before Hoary, I used Archlinux (0.5, wooo) and before that Mandrake
<agateau> What I like about Kubuntu is that it comes with KDE and is stable enough that my wife can bare it
<agateau> (which was not the case with Archlinux :))
<apachelogger> :D
<apachelogger> I wonder why
<apachelogger> <3 arch
 * zkriesse wonders if this is a kubuntu membership meeting
<apachelogger> well, then +1 for bringing Kubuntu love to KDE or KDE love to Kubuntu, something along those lines anyway :)
<agateau> don't get me wrong, I like some of the ideas of arch, but I don't think it's a distro geared towards people who have a life beyond computers :)
<lex79> indeed
<Riddell> zkriesse: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> oh
<zkriesse> Riddell: that sucks
<Riddell> welcome back
<Riddell> well I already voted on agateau, others need to vote now :)
<apachelogger> I love a good netsplit in a meeting.
<zkriesse> I think i've been dropped once
<Riddell> oh yes, still split, sigh
 * apachelogger waits for council to return
<Riddell> everyone here now?
<JontheEchidna> about half the channel is unconnected
<ScottK> Just remember: They are disconnected from us.
<JontheEchidna> all better now
<Riddell> put your hand up if you're still split from the network
<DarkwingDuck> o/
<JontheEchidna> :P
<apachelogger> ^^
<ScottK> Looks OK
 * DarkwingDuck ducks
<Riddell> any more questions for agateau?
 * zkriesse is an ubuntu member...can he vote too?
<DarkwingDuck> zkriesse: no
<ScottK> From during the split:
<ScottK> [14:00:23] <shadeslayer> i helped other new users who had problems understanding how to use their new systems,since i had just gone through the same experience,the most general questions i encountered were about mp3 playback and flash :D
<ScottK> [14:00:24] <shadeslayer> then slowly i got into ISO testing,this was during the 9.10 cycle,i reported various bugs in the ISO's
<ScottK> [14:00:28] <shadeslayer> fortunately you guys over at #kubuntu-devel helped me get the proper info into those bugs and corrected them in the packages :D
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Go
 * shadeslayer types till then
<shadeslayer> after i understood the lp bug system and how to effectively report bugs i helped other users get more info into their bug reports,recently i have joined the bug squad to help out more in that area , i also help by forwarding bugs upstrea,
<shadeslayer> *upstream
<ScottK> Riddell: We were talking with shadeslayer: were you talking with agateau?
<apachelogger> we were talking about agateau while you were talking about shadeslayer
<ScottK> Meh.
<shadeslayer> hehe :P
<agateau> :)
<ScottK> I guess we should back up and start over then.
<lex79> what a mess
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Let's let agateau go ahead.
<shadeslayer> sure thing :D
<apachelogger> we are already voting on him :P
<agateau> shall I just copy'n'paste?
<shadeslayer> awesome ;)
<apachelogger> I would prefer someone from the council throwing a +1 in :P
<JontheEchidna> agateau: please :)
<ScottK> agateau: How about a pastebin
<agateau> ScottK: ok
<Riddell> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/Jbj5AMuH
<JontheEchidna> dang, we must have split a long time before the split showed up on our end
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: seems so
<agateau> http://pastebin.com/AFsJWYL3
<JontheEchidna> no wonder the rest of the council was being so quiet ;)
<agateau> ah, Riddell if a faster pastebiner
 * ScottK read the backscroll.
<ScottK> +1 from me
<ScottK> shadeslayer: You might prepare a pastebin of all you told us during the split, so you'll be ready to go.
<JontheEchidna> +1
<shadeslayer> sure
 * apachelogger waits for neversfelde
<neversfelde> +1 agateau
<neversfelde> sorry was busy reading the backlog
<apachelogger> anyone else? no?
<apachelogger> agateau: welcome and congratulations
<agateau> thanks!
<Riddell> apachelogger: you didn't vote?
<a|wen> congrats agateau!
<apachelogger> Riddell: I did in your paste :P
<agateau> Riddell: he did, one or two split ago :)
 * DarkwingDuck gives a futbol clap
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Paste your bin.
<shadeslayer> http://shadeslayer.pastebin.com/vNUxCwMt
<apachelogger> Riddell: 18:59 < apachelogger> well, then +1 for bringing Kubuntu love to KDE or KDE love to Kubuntu, something along those lines anyway :)
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Arch or Kubuntu?
<shadeslayer> So basically as you can see i love to break stuff and then fix it,so that other users may not experience this issue
<JontheEchidna> My sigh is out of context in there :P
<shadeslayer> ScottK: Arch for bleeding edge,Kubuntu for long term
 * apachelogger thinks that JontheEchidna is sighing too much
<JontheEchidna> (that is when we first saw the netsplit)
 * ScottK wonders if a person can sustain two loves?
<shadeslayer> ScottK: basically i use arch for confirming KDE bugs ( and that too i have installed only yesterday _
<apachelogger> since arch is super hyp0r distro now
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: Who go the better KDE?!
<apachelogger> and why ^^
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg
<neversfelde> shadeslayer: from your experience, what can we do better to make it easier for people to get in touch with Kubuntu development?
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: again,kubuntu has a very good KDE enviroment,but mem consumption on arch is very low,if that comes to Kubuntu,ill shun arch :P
<ScottK> shadeslayer: If we had a bleeding edge repository for KDE trunk, would you still need Arch?
<shadeslayer> ScottK: nope
 * ikonia would like to comment on shadeslayer
<apachelogger> pfff, uninstall all the goodness and youll consume as much mem as arch :P
 * ScottK opens up a space for ikonia.
<apachelogger> ikonia: please just go ahead
<ikonia> it's only quick, I don't normally speak out for people in this sort of way but thought shadeslayer a worth while effort
<shadeslayer> neversfelde: well.. first we need a proper medium to channel the bugs,apachelogger has a awesome bug triage policy lined up,that gets the right bugs to the right people,and im trying to implement it on my end
<ikonia> when shadeslayer first came to ubuntu in an IRC capacity, he was a pain, no other way to say it, but I've rarley seen someone work with such effort to understand what ubuntu is about
<ikonia> his change has been outstanding and long term too, he provides a valuable contribution to ubuntu/kubuntu in many ways
<ikonia> I feel membership would be a good reward and inspiriation for a stunning turn around and sustained contribution
<ikonia> great potential and enthusiasm, great attiude and willingness to listen and participate
<ikonia> </end>
 * apachelogger thanks ikonia for taking away a wonderful question apachelogger had queued :)
<ikonia> apachelogger: sorry
<Riddell> shadeslayer: the other day pinotree seemed surprised when you asked a question in #kde-devel, do you think that was fair?
<shadeslayer> Riddell: a bit,yes,but that is to be expected when i learnt that he comes from debian
<shadeslayer> debian has *very* high standards of packaging imo
<apachelogger> ikonia: it's better to hear praise from someone else anyway :)
<ikonia> apachelogger: I don't do it for many - I think it's worthwihle in this case
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: Kubuntu does not? Should Kubuntu move more towards Debian's standards?
<shadeslayer> Riddell: also pinotree is highly expericened and im just starting out with packaging,so he has every right to question me
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: Kubuntu also does have very high packaging standards,but not _as_ high as debian
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: for example my qipmsg package :P
<lex79> well, they have more time than us
<JontheEchidna> ^more patience, maybe :P
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: exactly :)
<apachelogger> they are into pain I hear :P
<apachelogger> anyhow
<shadeslayer> Also ive recently put my hands in the world of packaging,ive done some packaging for kubuntu when we have KDE release
<shadeslayer> +s
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: are you going to become elite Kubuntu packager or elite KDE developer or both?
 * DarkwingDuck makes a note who to pick the mind of when learning packaging
<Riddell> shadeslayer: kubuntu membership will give you access to the bzr packaging archive, do you think you're ready for that?
<shadeslayer> some of my packages have been picked up by debian,for eg : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=580718
<ubottu> Debian bug 580718 in wnpp "ITP: kraft -- small business-management application" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: both!
<shadeslayer> Riddell: yes,but i will always request a review in my own lp account first
<ikonia> ambitious
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw i saw your ubuntu-core-dev app :P
<apachelogger> the application that is an application :D
<shadeslayer> didnt read the code much :)
<Riddell> shadeslayer: how did you learn packaging?
<apachelogger> was a quick hack anyway
<neversfelde> shadeslayer: you told me, that there were/are no FOSS events in india, so I was surprised to see that there seems to be a very active community http://www.ubuntu-in.info/wiki/Events Are you part of this Loco team?
<shadeslayer> oh and also,im working on apturl support for rekonq
<shadeslayer> Riddell: i poked apachelogger :D
<shadeslayer> neversfelde: i am a part of the loco as in i put my name in the contacts
 * apachelogger has a pokeme sign it seems ^^
<Quintasan|Szel> We're still on membership? :)
<DarkwingDuck> Quintasan|Szel: yes
 * Quintasan|Szel went swimming and forgot about meeting @_@
<shadeslayer> neversfelde: but,our mailing is heavily spammed,and there are no events near my locality
<JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: takes a while when you have 4 people to confirm, and a netsplit after the first
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Don't worry... I'm going to add you to my quit message so you get pings
<Quintasan|Szel> JontheEchidna: oh well, :<
<apachelogger> cool
 * apachelogger hugs DarkwingDuck
<apachelogger> well
<shadeslayer> neversfelde: also sayakb the loco contact has since left the Ubuntu project
<apachelogger> any important messages for shadeslayer remaining?
<neversfelde> shadeslayer: ah ok, it is not easy to manage a Loco in such a big country, is it?
<JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: then one side proceeded to grill agateau, while the other split half of the channel grilled shadeslayer, so we had to restart both :P
 * apachelogger fears we might be carried away a bit :)
<Riddell> let's vote
<neversfelde> yes
<shadeslayer> neversfelde: nope :)
<JontheEchidna> +1 shadeslayer for general participation and enthusiasm
<Riddell> I give a +1 for lots of activity in a few areas with quick learning times
<Riddell> s/a few/several/
<apachelogger> I shall give shadeslayer a solid +1 for poking me and for soon taking over kubuntu-debug-installer maintainership from me ;)
<neversfelde> +1
<Riddell> let's see if we can get him to give up that arch habit :)
 * apachelogger highlights ScottK
<ScottK> +1 from me
 * Riddell wonders about shadeslayer for project neon maintainer
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: congrats and welcome to the crew
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw kubuntu-kde-konqueror-shortcuts was removed with last update,no idea where it went
<apachelogger> Riddell: Quintasan|Szel is signed up for that
<ScottK> Riddell: That's what I was thinking
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: woohhh
<lex79> shadeslayer: congrats :)
<ikonia> council - use this guy up, good call
<ScottK> apachelogger: Then they can work together.
<apachelogger> Riddell: not doing a terribly good job though, we should reconsider his membership status ;)
<shadeslayer> Riddell: had a talk wit apachelogger about it :P
<shadeslayer> lex79: thanks LD
<shadeslayer> :D
<Riddell> bulldog98: about?
<apachelogger> bulldog98: pingly
<Riddell> or maybe he's bulldog98_konver
<Quintasan|Szel> I would like to talk about it for a bit after the whole agenda (Project Neon)
<apachelogger> bulldog98: bulldog98_konver: who are you and what do you do to deserve membership :)
<JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: is it something that needs council decsison or could it been in #kubuntu-devel after the meeting?
<Quintasan|Szel> #kubuntu-devel is fine
<bulldog98> so my name is Jonathan Kolberg and iâm a German
<bulldog98> Iâm going to school atm but Iâll leave it soon
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/bulldog98  https://edge.launchpad.net/~bulldog98
<bulldog98> I deserve Membership because I think that makes clear that I belong to the Kubuntu Community and thatâs the goal I want to reach belonging to the Kubuntu Communtity
<bulldog98> my problem atm is that my network connection is very slow so it can take a time till I answer
<Riddell> bulldog98: what did you package which had licence issues?
<apachelogger> bulldog98: when did you start using Kubuntu and when did you start contributing?
<bulldog98_konver> apachelogger: I started using Kubuntu at 8.04
<bulldog98_konver> and I realy loved it after years of windows 95
<bulldog98_konver> but only 4 days after installing Kubuntu 8.04 I started to use KDE 4.0 from the PPA
<apachelogger> ok, that is seriously scary :O
<bulldog98_konver> I tryed different distros by now (including Arch) but they were noting for me
<bulldog98_konver> because I like the Debian package format and the Community behind Kubuntu
<neversfelde> bulldog98: I saw you starting a lot of new things in the last few weeks, do you think you can manage all the work that comes with this?
<apachelogger> Riddell: I think he was refering to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/babeleo
<bulldog98> that was a small Plasmoid babeleo and itâs a widget to translate words with help of eg leo.org
<bulldog98> the issue was that the author didnât mentioned the license of the icon and because of that weâll have to wait for his reaction
<bulldog98_konver> neversfelde: I donât know wether I can do managing that but I think, that Iâll have more time next school year
<apachelogger> bulldog98: Does Arch or Kubuntu have the better KDE implementation?
<Quintasan> wrong answer == not a member
<Quintasan> :P
<bulldog98_konver> apachelogger: I think Kubuntu has a great implementation
<shadeslayer> hehe :D
<Riddell> bulldog98: what do you consider to be your most significant contribution to Kubuntu?
 * apachelogger smells a but
<ScottK> apachelogger: TMI.
<apachelogger> ScottK: one t, one :P
<bulldog98_konver> Riddell: that was the translation of the Kubuntu Docs which the German Kubuntu Community did
<bulldog98_konver> and also I think promoting Kubuntu at the LinuxTag
<bulldog98_konver> was an improtant contribution to Kubuntu
<Riddell> bulldog98_konver: is rekonq very unstable for everyone or just me in the previous few weeks?
 * apachelogger found it more unstable too
<shadeslayer> Riddell: thats a flash issue..
 * JontheEchidna has been a bad boy and has been using chromium all week
<neversfelde> bulldog98_konver is also very active in the german community forum
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: we have the flash patch, so it shouldn't be that
<bulldog98_konver> Riddell: the Problem is not rekonq itâs flash
<bulldog98_konver> flash makeâs rekonq crash
<bulldog98_konver> but in the trunk there is an workaround and also QWebKit is working on that
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: oh you guys applied it?
 * shadeslayer sees the latest commits
<JontheEchidna> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rekonq/0.4.95-0ubuntu3
<neversfelde> bulldog98_konver: how can I proof anything about LinuxTag, I was not there? :)
<Riddell> neversfelde: what does bulldog98 do in the german forum?
<bulldog98_konver> neversfelde: in KDE planet there was a picture of my (together with the whole team)
<bulldog98_konver> and Blizzz can support that
<neversfelde> Riddell: he's an active supporter and moderator
<ScottK> bulldog98_konver: Being a Kubuntu Member gives you the ability to commit to the bzr branches we use for packaging.  how would you deal with that?
<bulldog98_konver> ScottK: I would look tree times over the things before I commit them and then I would as two guys in #kubuntu-devel to look over that, so nothing can go wrong
<bulldog98_konver> +ask
<Riddell> well I like what I see, I'm just undecided if it tips the balance on the sustained and significant scale
<neversfelde> bulldog98_konver: I saw you talking with neverendingo about overtaking the maintainership of kde.de?
<bulldog98_konver> neversfelde: yes I think promoting kde in German is also very important, because itâs our upstream
<neversfelde> bulldog98_konver: so you will do this in future?
<bulldog98_konver> we should work not only for Kubuntu, we should also work upstream, so everybody has something of our work
<bulldog98_konver> neversfelde: yes Iâm willing to take care of that
<JontheEchidna> I have to step away for a moment, bbiab
<neversfelde> so I think I can give a +1 for beeing connected to upstream rekonq and the website team and for your contribution to Kubuntu, I am sure, we will see some of your packages and bugfixes in the archive soon?
<Riddell> I'm going to vote a +0 because I think there's lots of good stuff in there but not quite enough for membership yet
<ScottK> bulldog98: Are you here?
<Riddell> maybe not
<neversfelde> seems not, I will talk to him
 * Quintasan senses a network failure
 * ScottK would be +0 also.
<DarkwingDuck> He said he had a bad connection
<JontheEchidna> +0, maybe in a month or so he could make it
<ScottK> neversfelde: What I saw was good, but I'm not sure itt gets to sustained and significant.
<apachelogger> +0 sames reasons
<Riddell> I think he should gather some more testimonials from kubuntu-de folks and get those on his wiki page and do some more direct kubuntu contributions like packaging or testing and come back next meeting
<ScottK> I'd definitely like to seem him back in a bit.
<Riddell> for sure
<JontheEchidna> He is definitely on the right track
<Riddell> thanks for putting up with the grilling bulldog98 and shadeslayer, agateau, ofirk
<apachelogger> +1 on both the thinking of Riddell and the seeing him back :)
<shadeslayer> :D
<Riddell> long meeting, sorry folks
<ScottK> I need to leave in about two minutes to pick up a child from day care.
<Riddell> Spec review for Maverick Meerkat
<ScottK> Riddell: +1 the specs from me.
<neversfelde> ScottK: sure, i know him from the german team and so I see more of his work. He should be more active in the international Kubuntu team and then I think he will make it soon
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuMaverickSpecs
<ScottK> neversfelde: OK.  I don't want him to feel discouraged.
<Riddell> and hopefully everyone has seen https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<Riddell> I need to poke rbelem and dantii and others for updates on the specs they know about
<Riddell> but not just now
 * apachelogger is killing items off the TODO without him knowing btw ^^
 * rbelem is here
<JontheEchidna> the council spec is done though, right?
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes indeed
<Riddell> oh no, tutorials day still WIP
<JontheEchidna> packaging, global menu bar, and default browsing are well underway
<Riddell> maybe should have renamed that spec community stuff
<Riddell> rbelem: what's the status of Kubuntu Maverick File Sharing?
<DarkwingDuck> Anything from you guys to us Doc guys?
<Riddell> anything worth packaging in a PPA yet?
<bulldog98> ScottK: Iâm here again
<Riddell> DarkwingDuck: more docs please :)
<rbelem> I upload the first patch to kde reeview board
<rbelem> And now im finishing the requested changes
<DarkwingDuck> Riddell: Okay. :) I'll have the bugs from Lucid fixed this week so that gives me time.
<Riddell> rbelem: can you e-mail that URL to kubuntu-devel mailing list?
<rbelem> Yep :)
<neversfelde> bulldog98: I sent you a message in a query
<Riddell> rbelem: what state is plasma mobile in?
<rbelem> It is packed now and it is in the repos
<Riddell> rbelem: when I tried it, it started in a window frame, is that ment to happen?
<JontheEchidna> neat!
<rbelem> I'm about to make some updates to it
<rbelem> With the --nodesktop?
<Riddell> rbelem: I didn't try that
<Riddell> everyone +1 on the specs anyway?
<rbelem> It was working fine to me. And i will try it in arm
 * Riddell suspects everyone has fallen asleep
<rbelem> :)
<JontheEchidna> Riddell: +1
<Riddell> we were hoping to look at lex79's kubuntu-dev application with kubuntu-dev folks too
<Riddell> not sure if we have enough kubuntu-dev folks though
<lex79> I'm here
<Riddell> apachelogger, JontheEchidna, NCommander: up for that?
<JontheEchidna> I'm here
<apachelogger> ack
<JontheEchidna> got another hour
 * Quintasan 's vote doesn't count but he would go +1 :P
<Riddell> lex79: what's the URL to your page?
<apachelogger> Riddell: do we need 4 for quorum?
<lex79> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/alessandro-ghersi/KubuntuDeveloperApplication
<rbelem> Riddell, i did not uploaded the latest patch because i'm having problems with internet in my city
<rbelem> I'm connect to irc via mobile phone
<rbelem> :)
<neversfelde> btw. bulldog has connection problems and will be here again on one of the next meetings
<Riddell> apachelogger: I don't remember if that has ever been decided
<Riddell> council is quorum at three
<apachelogger> Riddell: I seem to remember having read a spec about that for lucid
<apachelogger> well, we can always derive the voting to the list anyway
<JontheEchidna> s/derive/defer?
<apachelogger> aye
<JontheEchidna> That would be good I think, since ScottK also had stuff he wanted to say
<apachelogger> well, lets have a quick interview and then move this on to the list
<Riddell> lex79: kubuntu-dev gives you elite upload rights to give packages which many people will be using, do you know your limits for what to upload and what to ask for help on?
<lex79> yes I know my limits....
<apachelogger> lex79: what was your worst somewhat recent screwup and what did you learn from it?
 * Quintasan wonders if that have even happened
<lex79> well, I forgot to left a note in the wiki ninja about the kinfocenter issue, so we have uploaded the package without the fix.
<lex79> kdebase-workspace
<lex79> :)
<JontheEchidna> this was the problem where most of kinfocenter wasn't installed?
<lex79> yes, I didn't deliberately uploading a broken kinfocenter, just forgot to say is not ready.
 * apachelogger was all confused about that issue :D
<lex79> -workspace is a big package now, and it needs more attention before the upload
<apachelogger> so
<lex79> I learned from that mistake :)
<apachelogger> lex79: what do you think we can/should improve about he workings of kubuntu development / ninja work
<lex79> in fact this time with RC1 I left a note about python issue in -workspace that I fixed before the upload
<Riddell> lex79: why is the package for KDE 4 libraries called kdelibs5 ?
<lex79> kdelibs5 means kde4 libraries
<lex79> kdelibs4
<lex79> means kde3 libraries
<apachelogger> lex79: I think Riddell is hinting towards - why does it have a 5 even though it is from KDE 4
<lex79> I mean 4c2a
<lex79> uhm because is in conflict with kde 4libraries ? :)
<JontheEchidna> sorta
<apachelogger> say there is libuntuone1 what conclusion can we draw from it having a 1 attached?
<lex79> soname version
<JontheEchidna> what causes the need to bump an soname version?
<apachelogger> that is a tricky one :D
<Quintasan> :3
<lex79> I don't understand the question
<lex79> if you bump the soname
<lex79> yu have to rebuild rdepends
<lex79> *you
<JontheEchidna> why would you ever need to change it from libubuntuone1 to libubuntuone2, from a coding point of view?
<JontheEchidna> ^is what I meant
<lex79> maybe because is BIC ?
<lex79> :)
<JontheEchidna> exactly!
<lex79> +1 for me
 * apachelogger would appreciate answers, not questoins :P
<lex79> :)
<Quintasan> BIC?
<lex79> binary incompatible
<Quintasan> oh
<Riddell> lex79: what are the issues with upload a package which contains icons which are licenced under a creative commons licence?
<apachelogger> lex79: what is the purpose of debian/compat?
<lex79> Riddell: I don't know
<lex79> apachelogger: The compat file defines the debhelper compatibility level
<lex79> Riddell: I'm not a king of copyright file, indeed
<apachelogger> what does this mean?
<lex79> well if you use compat 7
<lex79> you should use debhelper 7
<lex79> > 7
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> what if the archive contains debhelper version 7
<apachelogger> and debian/compact contains 5
<apachelogger> what does this mean for the build process?
<lex79> debian/compat controls how debhelper works
<lex79> this prevents existing packages from being broken by a new version of debhelper
<lex79> that is what I know
<apachelogger> yeah, good enough for me :)
<Riddell> ooh ooh I got one
<JontheEchidna> (It tells debhelper to act as if it were version 5)
<lex79> thanks apachelogger
<Riddell> lex79: what's better, cdbs or debhelper 7?
<lex79> omg
<Riddell> :)
<Quintasan> :D
<apachelogger> lol
<lex79> cdbs is fast for write a package
<lex79> debhelper is the new way :)
<lex79> but seems high quality than cdbs
<lex79> indeed, minion likes cdbs :)
<Riddell> ok I need to be off
 * apachelogger has a nice question left
<Riddell> go go apachelogger
 * Quintasan pats lex79 
<lex79> :(
<apachelogger> lex79: say you want to package a source tree that contains nothing, absolutely nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h (each couple of hundred lines), at the top of each file it says that this is licensed by fluffy bunny inc. and licensed under LGPL 5 and later
<apachelogger> is this source tree properly licensed?
<lex79> uhm, I think the header copyright in the file should be complete to say it's properly licensed
<apachelogger> well, assume we have a standard short-version license header
<lex79> do you have LICENSE file in the sources?
<yuriy> did this meeting just turn into a packaging quiz?
<apachelogger> lex79: nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h
<Riddell> yuriy: it turned into a kubuntu-dev grills lex79 session
<lex79> apachelogger: so, no, it's not properly licensed
<JontheEchidna> quite a grilling at that
<Riddell> so far he hasn't cracked under the pressure, we're obviously not trying hard enough
<Quintasan> Riddell: is there a difference between these two? :P
<apachelogger> lex79: if you want you can tell us why ;)
<apachelogger> not necessarily though, I consider the question answered
<lex79> it's not  properly licensed because there is no a COPYRIGHT file, a complete copyright
 * Riddell runs off, we'll let ScottK and any other kubuntu-dev review the logs and come back with a decision shortly, thanks a lot lex79 
<JontheEchidna> +1 from me, but I move that we put the log of this portion of the meeting in a pastebin and defer the final voting to the mailing list
<lex79> apachelogger: right?
<lex79> Riddell: thanks
<apachelogger> well, now you made me ask another question
<yuriy> Riddell: oh! wasn't on the agenda
<apachelogger> lex79: assume the license is BSD, is it properly licensed now?
<lex79> no
<apachelogger> why not?
<lex79> header copyright is != COPYRIGHT file
<lex79> you have to add a COPYRIGHT file LGPL 5 and late
<lex79> +r
<apachelogger> well, I have it licensed as BSD now
<JontheEchidna> (there is no LGPL v5)
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: dont give away my hints on the earlier question :P
<JontheEchidna> :P
<lex79> he says icensed under LGPL 5 and later
<lex79> *licensed
<apachelogger> I changed the question
<apachelogger> sec
<apachelogger> lex79: say you want to package a source tree that contains nothing, absolutely nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h (each couple of hundred lines), at the top of each file it says that this is licensed by fluffy bunny inc. and licensed under BSD using the regular BSD license header
<apachelogger> is this source tree properly licensed?
<apachelogger> and please explain why it is or is not.
<lex79> if you add also the COPYRIGHT files in the sources with a complete bsd license
 * rbelem goes off
<lex79> yes, it's properly licensed
<lex79> if there is no a complete bsd license in the sources, no
<apachelogger> hm, I'll take that and say it is correct
<apachelogger> lex79: you need a full version of GNU licenses because their long-version license text usually mentions the distribution of a copy of the full license along the source
<apachelogger> that is specifically unarguable :P
<lex79> ok :)
<apachelogger> lex79: the BSD license itself is super short and what you embedd in the source file header is already the complete BSD
<lex79> ah, now I understand :)
<apachelogger> very well, then :)
<Quintasan> apachelogger: I can argue with you
<JontheEchidna> lex79: and to answer the question that Riddell asked at the beginning, a few libraries in kdelibs3 had an ABI break in kde3 times, so there were libraries with soversions of 4 in KDE3
<apachelogger> +1 very capable answers
<Quintasan> :P
<JontheEchidna> lex79: so they had to bump it to kdelibs4 in kde3 times
<JontheEchidna> and kdelibs5 in kde4 times
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you want to take the application + log to the list? ;)
<JontheEchidna> that's what I was trying to get out of my questions about soversions
<JontheEchidna> apachelogger: sure
<lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks :)
<apachelogger> thanks everyone who is still around :)
<apachelogger> lex79: special thanks so far :)
<Quintasan> :3
<lex79> apachelogger: you are a bad cop
<lex79> :P
 * Quintasan pats lex79 
<Quintasan> good job
 * JontheEchidna is probably good cop then :P
<lex79> nope :)
 * Quintasan is next one to be grilled when applying for kubuntu-dev
<Quintasan> :3
<apachelogger> FYI: meeting is over :)
 * Quintasan pulls apachelogger back to #kubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-29
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dyfet> Now I need coffee
<NCommander> ping: persia GrueMaster davidm ogra dyfet NCommander
<ogra> funny how you ping yourself :P
 * GrueMaster responds with a groggy wave.
<davidm> G'day
<mpoirier> hello 1
 * davidm takes another sip of coffee
<NCommander> ogra: well, it began with a bunch of us attending a meeting, then I pinged people, then you said it was funny that I pinged my self, and I began to explain saying that it began ...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> are you in clownesque mode today ? :)
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> do we have a wikipage link ?
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to talk to persia about IRC channels
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to talk to persia about IRC channels
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100629
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100629
<ogra> bah, persia do you like IRC channels ? i surely do ...
<ogra> NCommander, done :P
<NCommander> ogra: :-P
<ogra> indeed, c/o
<NCommander> persia said he may or may not be here due to power outages in Japan
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> still green
<ogra> i wonder how we do that all the time
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/all-maverick-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/all-maverick-alpha-2.html
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> wrong page
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-2.html
<NCommander> We're in the red there
<ogra> no, we should have both on the meeting page
 * NCommander fixes that
<ogra> yes, and i cant promise i'll make my last item in time
<ogra> (flash-kernel changes require an image ... we still dont have one, waiting for the gtk+ upload to finish building and be published)
<GrueMaster> I have posted a preliminary test procedure at http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/LiveImage
<ogra> LiveImage ?
<GrueMaster> Although I should rename the wiki.
<ogra> yeah. should be PreinstalledImage
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<ogra> GrueMaster, and you dont *need* to reboot at the end (its indeed a good measure, but not necessary)
<mpoirier> fixed critical bug for alpha2.
<GrueMaster> ogra: It is to insure that oem-install and jasper don't try to run again.
<mpoirier> more problems to fix - userspace apps generating oom.
<mpoirier> done unless there are questions.
<ogra> GrueMaster, right
<ogra> mpoirier, thanks a lot for the last minute fix, that was great work
<mpoirier> we were lucky.
<mpoirier> it could have taken much longer, like the SD card problem...
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Not a lot to report atm.  Still no daily build images.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> I tested the new kernel.  Haven't seen the oom messages yet, but my main focus so far has been just booting.
<davidm> GrueMaster, where are you on A2 work item?
<dyfet> I had been looking at apr this morning
<NCommander> mine isn't quite toast
<NCommander> Been looking at KDE, but it likely won't be fixed until I'm at Akademy and can beat upstream in person
<ogra> GrueMaster, you should have dailies tonight
<GrueMaster> ok.
<dyfet> I did not think I would get further than Michael in KDE either...
<ogra> NCommander, did you plan to discuss the changes to QT at akademy ?
<ogra> NCommander, the stuff we discussed with asac before i mean
<NCommander> ogra: discuss, but I can already tell you that there will be no short-term fix coming from upstream on this
<ogra> (upstream requested us to drop all QT patches)
<ogra> NCommander, i thought it was only one more option that needed to be added
<NCommander> we aren't acrrying any ARM patches to QT
<NCommander> *carrying
<NCommander> we're carrying the patches everywher else
<ogra> right
<asac> we will get a option from upstream to change soname
<asac> also upstream will decide on the qws preferred soname at least
<ogra> and we could drop them if we would build QT differently
<asac> and we could use that option for libqt
<ogra> which upstream asked for
<NCommander> I'm not rehashing this argument now
<NCommander> We'll take it offline and report back
 * ogra would like to have it in the meeting log
<ogra> thats why i brought it up
<asac> iirc you said that you were willing to use the double real if you had a way to easily bump soname to something that doesnt match upstream soname
<asac> so we dont pretend we are compatible with something we effectively arent
<NCommander> asac: right, but upstream needs to implement that. I don't want some quassy hack over this, and it still needs discussion wtih Qt downstream apps as their build systems will have to handle it
<asac> so upstream promissed to get the feature about sonames added. i can take action to get update on that
<asac> NCommander: downstream apps would just the same -dev
<asac> for them it should be transparent
<NCommander> asac: er, think LD flags
<asac> for qt itself we wait till we have the soname through configure paramater feature and then bump it to something
<NCommander> Unless the build system is semi-smart, it might include the wrong -l*soname*
<asac> NCommander: the soname includes lib name and version part
<asac> i would expect we bump the version to something like 1.real
<asac> hmm i see what you mean i think
<NCommander> asac: I was of the opinion that I think trying to resolve this right now is more work than it should be. If you were instant on making IMHo, a useless change at this point, then that's how we would have to do it
<asac> but afaik that version thing should work.
<asac> kk
<NCommander> I'll discuss it at Qt upstream
<asac> well. deccision could be done by next time you need to port something ;)
<asac> so if nothing happnes again, then keeping it that way is fine
<NCommander> The only proper way to fix this once and for all is to have mainline Qt change, but that can't happen until Qt breaks their ABI again.
<asac> qt has other options to strip and untrip abi parts from qt
<asac> the qt everywhere is really just theoretic
<asac> upstream said they are currently trying to get source compatibility established among distros ;)
<asac> and binary isnt that important as its not the current practice anyway
<asac> but they would love to see that of course ... but there it wont happen before upstream bumps soname on their own anyway
<asac> anyway .. out ;)
<asac> lets take it offline
<ogra>  right
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> waiting for gtk to finish building
<NCommander> They're coming.
<ogra> then we should be able to get our first image
<ogra> hopefully today
<NCommander> We smashed out some last minute publishing bugs, so its getting there
<ogra> we both worked on remaining bugs today in the build infrastructure
<ogra> and have high hopes that we smashed them all :)
<NCommander> Only thing left at this point appears to be some cosmeic stuff in make-web-indices
<ogra> though only an actual image build will tell
<NCommander> ogra: well, we haven't caused antimony to rm -rf / itself
<ogra> yet
<NCommander> so we're still ahead of the game
<ogra> :P
<ogra> we didnt run through the whole build process yet so you never know if it kicks in at the end ;)
<ogra> but all the pieces look good ... we'll see how well they work if run together
<ogra> sadly the gtk build blocks the very first setp atm
<ogra> *step
<NCommander> Unfortunately
<NCommander> Then 1-2 hours for a live image build
<NCommander> then 10 minutes to do a preinstalled run
<ogra> rather 2
<ogra> right
<NCommander> so basically
<ogra> so about 2.5h for an image build
<NCommander> "Watch this spot."
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
 * NCommander has none
<ogra> actually watch this spot: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/ ;)
<NCommander> actually
<NCommander> yes I do
<NCommander> I'm gone next week for Akademy
<NCommander> I may or may not be present
<NCommander> Who wants the meeting?
 * ogra will take it if nobody else is voluntold 
<davidm> dyfet, can you take the meeting?
<ogra> or that :)
<dyfet> Okay I can do so
 * NCommander wishes he had davidm's voluntelling powers
<NCommander> [action] dyet to run the IRC meeting next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyet to run the IRC meeting next week
<davidm> dyfet, thanks
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to run the IRC meeting next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to run the IRC meeting next week
<NCommander> that's it for me
<NCommander> anyone else
<dyfet> Well, I can ping myself then, too :)
<ogra> NCommander, you missed an actrion above btw
<davidm> NCommander, please review with dyfet what he needs to do, thanks
<ogra> NCommander, <asac> so upstream promissed to get the feature about sonames added. i can take action to get update on that
<NCommander> [action] NCommander, asac, ogra, and all interested parties to take Qt discussion offline and bring it back to the meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander, asac, ogra, and all interested parties to take Qt discussion offline and bring it back to the meeting
<asac> thx
<NCommander> [action] asac to poke upstream Qt
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to poke upstream Qt
<asac> next week i will be travelling so you wont be able to check if i did that (make that a 2week action)
<NCommander> asac: well, I'll be seeing Qt upstream in two days
<NCommander> maybe I should take this action item
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to poke Qt upstream at Akademy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to poke Qt upstream at Akademy
<NCommander> there
<NCommander> Eveyrone has actions now, unless someone feels left out :-P
<NCommander> closing
<NCommander> 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:26.
<asac> ogra: NCommander: will i be listed as "attendee" ;)
<asac> after all the lines i wrote i would love to see some credits :-P
<ogra> where do you want to be listed ?
<asac> ogra: on the wiki summary/notes
 * ogra will happily list you everywhere you like
<asac> as attending this meeting
<asac> ;)
<ogra> sure
<asac> thx!!
<ogra> NCommander, ^^^ please make sure he shows up in the summary
<mdz> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> hi
<kees> hello
<cjwatson> kees: your chair I think - I forgot to update the agenda from last week :(
<cjwatson> let me quickly purge it now
<kees> cjwatson: I was just going to ask; I don't see last meeting's minutes
<kees> does anyone know if sabdfl is around, I don't see him on IRC
<mdz> kees: he was around earlier
<kees> Keybuk: are you here?
<Keybuk> I am
<Keybuk> are you? ;-)
<cjwatson> kees: edited the agenda now - I've given myself an action to sort out last week's minutes
<cjwatson> damnit, editmoin is timing out, one sec
<kees> Keybuk: i am! :)
<sabdfl> hello all, hello ChanServ
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [topic] review actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  review actions from last meeting
<kees> we're waiting on moin to not be broken, one moment
<cjwatson> agenda is up to date now
<kees> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<kees> * cjwatson to write up 2010-06-15 minutes
<cjwatson> not done which is why I just gave myself that action; sorry
<kees> np
<kees> * cjwatson to reword StableReleaseUpdates  to indicate that panic button only applies to -updates
<cjwatson> pitti did this for me
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?action=diff&rev2=146&rev1=145
<kees> * pitti to (ask for help to) get !sru added to ubuntu-bots
<pitti> I changed that along with the new !regression-alert factoid
<mdz> cjwatson: if you don't get to it today, let me know as I can help with it tomorrow if needed
<kees> I think I saw this and !regression get added?
<mdz> cjwatson: (the notes)
<kees> * cjwatson to remove "mail TB" step from SRU docs
<pitti> kees: !regression-alert for now, but I'm happy to add some more aliases; just that !sru is already taken
<cjwatson> pitti did that one too
<cjwatson> mdz: thanks, hopefully I will though
<kees> * cjwatson to find out about spam-cleaning technical-board@ archives with IS
<cjwatson> I just asked about this; Ng doesn't think that list administrators have the necessary privileges, so I've opened an RT ticket
<kees> cool
<kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<MootBot> New Topic:  Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<kees> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/
<kees> I looked through this last night and just deleted spam.  did anyone see anything I didn't?
<cjwatson> I see nothing new
<mdz> nothing since the last meeting except spam
<kees> onward
<kees> [topic] up on community bugs (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  up on community bugs (standing item)
<kees> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<cjwatson> (the RT ticket for spam is RT#40118)
<kees> just the drivers bug, which is still under way, IIUC.
<mdz> it missed the window for this Launchpad cycle
<pitti> I don't even have the list moderation password; I'm happy to help out with the moderation if someone sends it to me
<mdz> and is settling in comfortably in the backlog
<mdz> well, it didn't miss the window, it just wasn't selected
<Keybuk> at least it has lots of company there
<cjwatson> pitti: I'll send you it
<mdz> but bdmurray said he would look at it during his LP rotation
<kees> mdz: "comfortably in the backlog", so it hasn't gotten a specific milestone?
<mdz> kees: no, they're doing kanban now, so they don't make commitments beyond current work in progress
<mdz> next stakeholder meeting is 2010-07-27
<kees> okay.  do we need to show up to that meeting to push it?  what's the next forward step for that bug?
<mdz> I think the next step is to see what bdmurray can do for us on an ad hoc basis
<kees> okay, I can take that.
<mdz> and then follow up at the meeting if more is needed
<kees> [action] kees to check up on 174375 with bdmurray
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees to check up on 174375 with bdmurray
<kees> [topic] other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  other business
<kees> anything else we should cover that's not on the agenda? anyone have questions/issues for the tech board?
<cjwatson> do we need to follow up on last week's compiler discussion with doko?
<kees> IIRC, it sounded it was in his court for now?
<kees> *sounded like ...
<cjwatson> I'm OK with that if others are
<mdz> I asked doko on #ubuntu-devel after last week's meeting
<mdz> and he said:
<mdz> 15-06-2010 16:12:59 < doko> mdz: could we do this later this week? running out of time today, and I'd like to get some performance data (benefits) on ix86. For now the test packages are available in https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ppa
<mdz> doko: did you get the performance data you wanted?
 * kees times out
<kees> shall we add an action for someone to follow up with doko?
<kees> mdz: can you follow up with him?
<mdz> kees: OK
<sabdfl> did the rebuild complete?
<kees> [action] mdz to follow up with doko on toolchain, ix86 performance
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to follow up with doko on toolchain, ix86 performance
<kees> anything else?  (short meeting...)
<sabdfl> did we get a full rebuild with the CS toolchain?
<cjwatson> last I heard from it was doko asking me about some technical details of package sets in order to try to reduce the amount of stuff hitting the armel buildds in a rebuild
<sabdfl> smart to prioritize things in explicit sets
<sabdfl> ok, i'll wait to hear more from mdz's discussion with doko
<sabdfl> can we have that on-list rather than wait for the mtng?
<kees> that makes sense, faster turn-around on that.
<sabdfl> nothing more from me
<kees> okay then...
<kees> [topic] chair selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  chair selection
<cjwatson> alphabetical by nick makes it Keybuk
<kees> I think it's Keybuk next, following nick alpha ordering
<Keybuk> WFM
<Keybuk> (was just checking that wasn't Prague week)
<kees> alrighty then...
<kees> thanks everyone, that's it!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
<sabdfl> cheers all
<bjf> Roll Call
 * cking is here \o/
 * ogasawara waves
 * smb \o
 * tgardner is here
<kamal-away> o/
 * manjo waves
 * lag waves o/
<jjohansen> \o
<tgardner> apw is on vacation
<bjf> so is jfo
<bjf> #startmeeting
<Daviey> \o
<bjf> looks like MootBot just died
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open action: manjo to send a firewire patch with test info
<manjo> I believe pgraner tested this with kino and dvgrab and reported it to work.
<manjo> I had submitted a bzr patch making the switch to ubuntu kernel mailing list,
<manjo> waiting for tgardner or Keybuk to pick this up.
<tgardner> hmm, I think we're still awaiting some test results
<Keybuk> hmm?  I don't do kernel stuff
<manjo> tgardner, test results from ?
<tgardner> Keybuk, its just a matter of swizzling some blacklists
<tgardner> manjo, results from pgraner et al
<Keybuk> ah, the old kansas city shuffle
<manjo> tgardner, ok
<tgardner> how about Luke's audio supprt changes?
<tgardner> qwsn't there an app that needed updating?
<manjo> he was going to upgrade some of the audio packages
<tgardner> wasn't*
<manjo> and he volunteered to do it
<tgardner> manjo, has he done so?
<manjo> tgardner, I will check with him again today
<manjo> ..
<tgardner> manjo, once we have a synopsis of resul;ts, then I'll make the blacklist changes
<manjo> tgardner, ack
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open action: JFo to put out a CFT on new firewire stack
<bjf> No status, JFo on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<bjf> No status, JFo on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> Synced latest upstreaming version of AA into Maverick.  Marc Deslauriers already
<jjohansen> hit Bug #599450.which testing missed.  I am looking at it and it should be a quick fix.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<manjo> we already talked about it
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<bjf> No status, apw on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> The Lucid LTS backport kernel from Maverick continues to track the Maverick kernel.
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> no change.  I just started looking at this again and will have a new test kernel today
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<cnd> nothing new, development work is done, should be removed from meeting schedule
<cnd> (or moved to JFo for lp bug handling)
<cnd> ..
<bjf> cnd, noted
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> All Alpha2 work items are complete.  Nothing new to report.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<bjf> No status, apw on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<bjf> No status, JFo on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<bjf> No status, apw on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> Changes to Firmware Test Suite this week:
<cking> 7 Additional tests:
<cking>   maxfreq: check CPU freq scaling max frequency against CPU max freq.
<cking>   cstates: measure C states across CPUs and check activity when loaded
<cking>   WMI: inspect DSDT for WMIs and dump out WMI methods and events (for hotkeys).
<cking>   lid: interactive lid event detection test.
<cking> Other improvements + fixes:
<cking>   klog scanning: use pcre rather than glibc regex.
<cking>   Improved progress feedback (-p, --show-progress).
<cking>   mtrr: check for MTRR config of VGA regions by BIOS.
<cking>   mttr: fix prefetchable region detection bug
<cking>   Add batch or interactive modes of testing.
<cking>   Include 800+ example klog errors to test against.
<cking> ..
<bjf> when will the klog scanning in python be ready?
<bjf> :-)
<cking> bjf, I will look at that this week
<bjf> was just kidding
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<cking> I know
<ogasawara> We uploaded a last minute linux-2.6.35-6.8 Alpha2 kernel on Sunday to resolve bug 597904 which was a blocker for building Alpha2 arm images.  We will essentially be uploading a 0-day Alpha2 kernel, linux-2.6.35-6.9, to resolve bug 588861.  I've been given the green light to upload it late Wed.  We currently have it uploaded to our kernel-ppa as an interim solution.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597904 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "No video on beagleboard with 2.6.35 kernels." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588861 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) ""pad block corrupted" error when trying to register an image with 2.6.34 kernel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588861
<ogasawara> All of our team's Alpha2 work items are complete, so good job everyone.  Alpha 3 is Thurs Aug 5th which is a little over a month away.  Please review the list of work items for Alpha 3:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<lag> - Marvel (mvl-dove):
<lag>     Nothing new this week.
<lag> - Freescale (fsl-imx51):
<lag>     Nothing new this week.
<lag> - Texas Instruments (ti-omap):
<lag>     In Maverick, cooloney prepared a branch which includes some ASoC audio and
<lag>     other fixes for git pull.
<lag> - Bugs:
<lag>     cooloney went through the omap bug list, located here:
<lag>     https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap.
<lag>     Closed a bug to won't fix. Nothing new on other bugs.
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.84  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-28.70  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-28.71  (proposed)[11]  0 / 1 verifications done
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-19.61  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-22.60  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-22.61  (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-214.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-214.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-112.28 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-112.29 (waiting for approval)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-307.15 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-307.16 (waiting for approval)
<smb> Lucid:       2.6.32-22.36  (security)
<smb>              2.6.32-23.37  (proposed)[18] 14/39 verifications done
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.32-23.37  (proposed)[15]  3/ 3 verifications done
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.32-205.18 (security)
<smb>              2.6.32-206.19 (proposed)[11] 13/41 verifications done (+ 1)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-608.14 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-608.15 (proposed)[11]  4/ 8 verifications done (+ 2)
<smb>  - ti-omap   2.6.33-501.7  (security)
<smb>              2.6.33-502.8  (proposed)[11]  0/ 4 verifications done
<smb>  - qcm-msm   2.6.31-802.4  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-802.5  (proposed)[11]  1/ 5 verifications done
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.32-306.11 (security)
<smb>              2.6.32-307.12 (proposed)[11] 12/38 verifications done
<smb> No feedback for ec2 boot tests (jjohanson?)
<smb> All requested fsl-imx51 tests done.
<smb> One requested mvl-dove verification done. Two to go (ericm?):
<smb>   * BugLink: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/576257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576257 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu Maverick) "[dove] BSP update for LSP 5.1.1" [Undecided,Triaged]
<smb>   * BugLink: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/591249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591249 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu Maverick) "[dove] BSP update for 5.2.1" [Undecided,Triaged]
<smb> No requested ti-omap verification done (mpoirier?). Still open:
<smb>   * BugLink: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/584920
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 584920 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Maverick) "netinstall fails, it has no network driver for moschip" [Medium,Fix committed]
<smb>   * BugLink: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/566238
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566238 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Lucid) "wlan0 "Interface doesn't support scanning." -- CONFIG_CFG80211_WEXT is not set" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<smb> ..
<ogasawara> smb: marjo pinged me yesteday about leveraging hw cert machines for testing -proposed, has he contacted you?
<shadeslayer> wow.. really? :D
<smb> ogasawara, not yet
<ogasawara> smb: hrm, ok
<ogasawara> smb: we should all get on the same page
<smb> ogasawara, True. For this time and Lucid
<ogasawara> smb: ack, we can chat after the meeting
<ogasawara> ..
<smb> it seems Martin was relatively happy with the current state
<smb> So Lucid might move to updates at some point in the near future
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<bjf> No status, JFo on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<bjf> No status, JFo on vacation
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<abogani2> I would want only inform you that I placed -lowlatency and -realtime kernel on Zinc and in my PPA (https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa) for review. Ever if anyone have time and chance to do it. ;-)
<kamal> o/
<bjf> kamal, go
<lag> o/
<kamal> regarding bug 594837 ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594837 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lucid SRU: Intel Core i3/i5/i7 hang on resume from suspend (SCI_EN)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594837
<kamal> still no response to the patch I submitted to stable@kernel.org 14 days ago:
<kamal>   [PATCH] ACPI: Unconditionally set SCI_EN on resume
<kamal> should we continue to wait, or move forward with a Lucid SRU, or something else?
<smb> kamal, Greg seems to have re-surfaced recently
<smb> kamal, But you might re-ask
<maks_> stable was on vacation.
<kamal> maybe I'll give it another week then, thanks.
<kamal> ..
<bjf> lag, go
<lag> I'd like to request that the ARM Status item is brought forward i.e. placed nearer the top of the agenda. Otherwise; if the meeting goes on longer than 45-60mins I will be unable to present the item as I have to leave imminently for 'other things'. :)
<bjf> lag, i have no problem with that
<bjf> lag, i'll make it so
<lag> I don't want to tread on anyone's toes
<bjf> lag, it was an arbitrary decision on my part, i can change it
<lag> Great, thanks
<lag> ..
<cking> lag won't be lagging behind
 * lag sighs 
<bjf> anything else?
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks bjf
<smb> bjf, thanks
 * manjo thanks bjf
<cking> thanks bjf
<lag> Cheers all
 * lag out
<hggdh> ~o~
<hallyn> hello all
<SpamapS> hallyn: no, you're supposed to go like this (no clue why...)
<SpamapS> o/
<ttx> ...
<hallyn> SpamapS: :)
<ttx> so we have jib kirkland mathiaz and smoser away. That would make SpamapS the chair/scribe
<ttx> (if jib doesn't show up at last minute)
<hallyn> ttx: Daviey took my turn last time so i was goin gto do it today
<Daviey> \o
<hallyn> but i'm fine the other way :)
<sommer> o//
<ttx> hallyn: works for me... but you'll have to scribe again ?
<zul> hello
<hallyn> <shrug>
<ttx> hallyn: your call: chair/scribe or pass
<jjohansen> \o
<hallyn> #startmeeting
<Daviey> ttx: I thought the deal was scribe + chair?
<hallyn> hm, didn't work
<ttx> yes, it's scribe+chair, the same meeting
 * SpamapS hugs hallyn :)
<ttx> MootBot is not around
<hallyn> how do we start it?
<Daviey> hallyn: We'll have to do without :(
<ttx> hallyn: you don't, you do without !
<hallyn> uh, ok
<ttx> first time driving, and no brakes
<hallyn> i'll just pretend it's there
<ttx> I'm sure daviey can emulate the bot
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is hallyn :)
<hallyn> ttx to coordinate testing for Alpha 2
<ttx> added as an agenda item, will be covered during this meeting
<ttx> so consider it DONE
<hallyn> cool
<hallyn> smoser to chase IS regarding cjwatson's access and improving
<ttx> <smoser> DONE
<hallyn> cooler
<ttx> (I'll proxy smoser
<ttx> )
<hallyn> jjohansen to ask kamal to email ubuntu-server mailing list with results of atop patchset
<hallyn> so the email, so i assume that's done
<ttx> ah?
<hallyn> oh no
<jjohansen> right, he did basic testing and handed it back to me
<hallyn> so status?
<jjohansen> I emailed jos, and ttx, and sent an email to k-t for discussion
<ttx> jjohansen: so it's still todo, but on your side ?
<jjohansen> yes, the discussion is really been stalled by alpha2
<ttx> jjohansen: ack
<hallyn> so action for next week, or wait until alpha3 to do that?
<jjohansen> I will send a mail today
<jjohansen> Basically server team needs to decide if atop is worth it
<hallyn> [ACTION] jjohansen to send email regarding atop patchset
<hallyn> ok, thanks, moving on
<hallyn> jjohansen, tim or andy to email ccheney and Daviey with test kernels for bug #588861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588861 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) ""pad block corrupted" error when trying to register an image with 2.6.34 kernel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588861
<hallyn> that was fully bisected right?
<ttx> this was DONE and fixed.
<Daviey> Yup.. the kernel team and ccheney rock!
<jjohansen> yeah, tim rocks
<hallyn> rockin'
<hallyn> People to subscribe to the test coverage for http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all
<hallyn> ttx: do you know if everyone is subscribed?  :)
<ttx> not really DONE, so I decided to split the work myself, see below
<ttx> (makes more sense anywayÃ 
<ttx> )
<hallyn> ok i see it thx
<hallyn> hggdh to email interested parties about the results of the ppa euca build
<hggdh> tests still being run on latest & greatest version of the patch. So far, so good
<Daviey> \o/
<hallyn> so carry over?
<ttx> hallyn: no
<hggdh> I hope I will have a position in about 30 min
<hggdh> right now, ~400 instances, no issue
<Daviey> Keep in mind that upstream just confirmed that they aren't *entirely confident* it fixed it.. but think it has
<hggdh> considering we started with failures in less than 100 instances, this is a big improvement
<hallyn> so... the tests are still running...  any action to track?
<ttx> hallyn: no
<hallyn> k
<hallyn> jjohansen to follow up on bug #TBC - EC2 kernel (lucid/maverick kernel ?)
<Daviey> ^^ a bug was opened about that.
<ttx> Daviey: LP:#?
<jjohansen> give me a sec, to find it again
<Daviey> it was at the end of the last meeting.. /me glares at the scribe :)
<jjohansen> Bug #597387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597387 in Ubuntu "pv-ops kernel only works in 3 or 4 zones in EC2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597387
<jjohansen> I have a new kernel I am building and will be testing in just a little but
<jjohansen> s/but/bit/
<ttx> jjohansen: ok, we'll discuss that later in the meeting
<hallyn> ok thanks.  moving on
<hallyn> zul to mail the ubuntu-server mailing list with the SRU nomination process, and document his process from there
<zul> done
 * hallyn craftily evades Daviey's glare
<hallyn> ok, thanks
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Maverick development (ttx)
<ttx> Alpha2 subcycle status
<ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html
<ttx> Specs should be at 90-100% now
<ttx> Only two days left
<ttx> Please see the remaining work items and let me know if you can't make it
<ttx> Alpha2-milestoned bugs
<hallyn> so all must be done by EOD thursday?  or start of day?
<ttx> the sooner the better -- there are a few documentation items that can be completed eod
<ttx> (or bug triage)
<ttx> Bug 588410: dynamic block storage should use virtio
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588410 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "dynamic block storage should use virtio" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588410
<ttx> Bug 595421: Eucalyptus doesn't start with latest stable version of "Groovy"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595421 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "Eucalyptus doesn't start with latest stable version of "Groovy"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595421
<Daviey> It was fixed in bzr ages ago, pending a 1.7 upload.  However, that has been blocked by some known issues.  Therefore i'm doing an unwanted of upload of 1.6.2 with the 2 fixes for Bug 588410 and Bug 595421 before EoD.
<SpamapS> ttx: I have a lot of MIR's that are still under consideration/undone .. do those have to be accepted into main by thursday?
<ttx> Daviey:  good !
<ttx> SpamapS: it's part of the feature delivery, so yes... but that's hardly your fault if you pushed them as much as you could
<ttx> SpamapS: if we have to postpone such items, I can bring it to the release meeting to point out a resource shortage
<ttx> (but it's a well known one)
<ttx> Bug 574554: tgtd needs init script or upstart job
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574554 in tgt (Ubuntu Maverick) "tgtd needs init script or upstart job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574554
<ttx> same situation here
<SpamapS> ttx: I'll poke them all today then.
<ttx> though I wonder why this one was targeted to alpha-2
<hggdh> if I may interrupt -- test run completed, 400 instances, no occurrence of the metadata issue. Of course, we are talking about a race, but I vote we consider it a success
<ttx> Daviey: any clue ?
<Daviey> \o/
<hallyn> w00t
<ttx> Daviey: you need tgtd for something in UEC ?
<Daviey> ttx: nothing to do with me :/
<ttx> ... ok
<zul> i have to update the tgtd upstart script
<ttx> will ask kirkland when I get a chance
<ttx> Alpha3 subcycle starts Friday
<Daviey> Hmm.. iSCSI is on our roadmap.. but i wasn't aware tgtd was a target for A2
<ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ttx> Please have a look at your specs and make sure the work items for Alpha-3 are current
<ttx> I already had a look and most of them are ok, except mathiaz's ones
<SpamapS> ttx: bug#586638  .. do I need to do something to complete the MIR? Kees gave it a +1
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to provide work items for Alpha3 on his specs by Thursday
<SpamapS> bug 586638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 586638 in libmemcached (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmemcached" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586638
<Daviey> ttx: Hmm.. I wasn't aware server-maverick-uec-monitoring was re-assigned to me :/
<ttx> SpamapS: ask him if it's good to seed or if it was just a security ack
<ttx> SpamapS: zul can handle the seeding for you if that's all what is needed
<zul> ack
<ttx> Daviey: sync with kirkland on that one
<Daviey> ttx: will do
<ttx> hallyn: done
<hallyn> [TOPIC] ISO testing coverage (ttx)
<hallyn> uh,
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Alpha2 ISO testing coverage (ttx)
<ttx> ok, so alpha2 milestone candidates should hit us RSN
<hallyn> and we just start getting emails?
<ttx> I split the team in subteams to make sure we do a complete coverage of server deliveries
<ttx> hallyn: yes, we should
<ttx> (if you're assigned to at least one test)
<ttx> smoser will cover the EC2 images
<hallyn> (which i am) cool, thx
<ttx> kirkland/Daviey/ccheney: Maverick UEC topologies, UEC Maverick images (on Lucid UEC), Netboot tests
<ttx> hallyn/mathiaz/SpamapS/zul: non-UEC Ubuntu Server tests, Upgrade server
<ttx> ttx/hggdh: random testing, cover holes in testing, replace missing people
<zul> yay!
<Daviey> zul: If you get bored, i'm sure we can find some UEC tests for you! :)
<ttx> the last team needs to get a picture of the general QA level, so it's more free-form
<ttx> that said, we know that hggdh will concentarte on UEC
<ttx> for the time being
 * hggdh sighs ;-)
<ttx> and I'll replace mathiaz
<ttx> for A2
<ttx> Just coordinate with members of your subteam to avoid duplicate testing
<Daviey> poor mathiaz
<ttx> (deuplicate testing is good, but once we are at 100% coverage)
<kirkland> ttx: zul: re: tftd upstart script, not required for A2, I targeted it there as I thought zul/ccheney might be able to accomplish it within their given resources for A2; postponing to A3 is fine by me
<ttx> kirkland: ok, thanks
<hallyn> moving on?
<ttx> If any of this coordination is unclear, let me know
<ttx> also ISO testing is open to everyone... this is just to ensure that all tests are covered by at least one person :)
<ttx> hallyn: yes
<hallyn> thanks
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> if a tree falls in a forest...
<hggdh> I spent the last week on a sprint in Lexington; most work done, some left-overs to look at
<hallyn> anyone have any questions?
<hggdh> during this time I kept on testing the metadata fix(es)
<hallyn> (going once, going twice)
<hallyn> thanks hggdh
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<hallyn> Bug 588861: "pad block corrupted" error with >=2.6.34 kernel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588861 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) ""pad block corrupted" error when trying to register an image with 2.6.34 kernel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588861
<Daviey> (\o/)
<hallyn> lol, we just wanted to see the 'fix committed' :)
<jjohansen> :)
<hallyn> atop kernel patch
<hallyn> we're just waiting for the email to discuss there?
<ttx> yes
<jjohansen> its been built and tested email to server team list for discussion being composed
<ttx> see if there is a real interest in this
<hallyn> any other questions for or from jjohansen ?
<ttx> Maverick EC2 kernel issue
<ttx> so at this point we'll have Lucidish kernels in A2
<jjohansen> right
<ttx> (for cloud images)
<ttx> The idea would be to fix that for A3 ?
<zul> heh
<ttx> or another plan ?
<jjohansen> yes we will have a kernel for A3
<jjohansen> it is likely to be the full xen kernel,
<ttx> ok, I'll mark that bug appropriately
<ttx> fianlly wanted to raise to your attention:
<ttx> Bug 576066: ums-cypress.ko missing from server installer
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576066 in linux (Ubuntu) "ums_cypress missing from lucid server cd" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576066
<ttx> Sounds like a good thing to fix for 10.04.1
<ttx> jjohansen: can you prioritize it appropriately ?
<jjohansen> yes
<ttx> ok, I'm done :)
<hallyn> moving on
<hallyn> (thanks, jjohansen :)
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<sommer> don't have anything new myself...
<Daviey> sommer: You rock.
<sommer> if anyone else does though feel free
<ttx> sommer: did you fix the refresh issue ?
<hallyn> i have a feeling i should have a question at some point oabout lxc, but need to read up on processes first...
<sommer> Daviey: :-)
<sommer> ttx: I'll ping mdke again, through email this time
<ttx> sommer: ok :)
<hallyn> thanks sommer
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Papercuts status (ttx)
<sommer> thank you all
<Daviey> sommer: Agg!
<Daviey> hold fire!
<ttx> Alpha2 iteration is finished
<ttx> 14 targets - 10 fixed, 2 postponed, 2 invalidated
<Daviey> sommer: Hmm, an update you mentioned in a bug didn't seem to go live.. do you know what happend?
<ttx> I processed the numerous nominations for A3 and decided to choose 18 among the 18 valid ones
<ttx> (tough choices involved)
<sommer> Daviey: was it fixed in maverick or lucid?
<ttx> https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-3
<ttx> You should each have ~2 bugs assigned to you in that list
<ttx> The easy ones are going fast :)
<hallyn> so [ACTION] everyone pick 2 or 3 papercuts?
<ttx> This iteration ends up Aug 2nd
<ttx> hallyn: yes
<ttx> say, 2
<hallyn> ok, thanks
<ttx> [ACTION] everyone to assign themselves to 2 papercuts from https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-3
<hallyn> moving on?
<ttx> yep
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (zul)
<hallyn> is that moot given new email process?
<ttx> well, I haven't seen the monday email yet
<zul> starting next week :)
<hallyn> i thought i saw it last night
<ttx> so I figure we are still up for this one
<hallyn> (wow, what on earth is going on with me and my mbox)
<zul> so one is nominated for lucid
<zul> #576949
<hallyn> where are the bots to expand bug # 576949
<zul> i think its a good candidate
<hallyn> huh
<ttx> zul:  looks like a good one
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.1/+bug/576949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576949 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "[lucid] LOAD DATA INFILE fails in replication, simple patch available in 5.1.43" [Medium,In progress]
<SpamapS> bots like it as bug 576949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576949 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "[lucid] LOAD DATA INFILE fails in replication, simple patch available in 5.1.43" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576949
<hallyn> :)
<zul> and last 8 days bug
<zul> bugs even
<zul> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<zul> bug 597818 597818 looks good to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597818 in dovecot (Ubuntu) "Include files parsed in reverse order" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597818
<ttx> does bug 589056 need to be fixed in lucid ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589056 in net-snmp (Ubuntu) "snmpd fails to upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589056
<zul> yes i think so
<ttx> ok, nominate it
<zul> k
<ttx> I think we are done
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<Daviey> nothin' 'ere
<ttx> Did everyone but hggdh lose in soccer ?
<hggdh> :-)
 * hallyn pouts
<Daviey> ttx: Your team lost first :)
<zul> i did...
<hggdh> heh
<ttx> Daviey: always first.
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> Germany did teach our country a lesson.. that we suck.
<ttx> Daviey: and we lost with lots of panache.
<hallyn> Tuesday 2010-07-06 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> sorry I was a little slow reading SRU's, bug 575458 looks worthy of consideration
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575458 in ntp (Ubuntu) "/etc/dhcp3/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/ntp breaks local NTP server (patch)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575458
<hggdh> and -- please keep in mind -- next friday I will sort of busy in the morning
<ttx> SpamapS: good catch
<hallyn> hm, yeah
<ttx> zul ^
<zul> acked
<hallyn> anything more to discuss?
<ttx> nope
<hallyn> #endmeeting (thanks, DavieyBot)
<Daviey> hah.
<hallyn> Daviey: so i gather i'm scribe again this week then right?
<Daviey> hallyn: no, SpamapS should be
<ttx> hallyn: yes
<ttx> Daviey: no
<hallyn> Daviey took advantage of me last week :)
<hallyn> np, thanks
<Daviey> ttx: ok -> lets chat about it :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-30
<aceralex> hello, i have the following question, i hope its well related to the channel topic
<aceralex> i want to send an email with attached appointment to lotus notes, that is imported automatically there?
<aceralex> does anyone knopw how to do?
<Pendulum> aceralex: this isn't a support channel
<aceralex> hmm ok
<mvo> hi
<ev> hello
<csurbhi> hie
<barry> hi
<ev> cjwatson, doko_: ping
<ev> right, hopefully they'll catch up.  I've text messaged Scott as well.
<ev> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ev.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ev> [TOPIC] lightning round!
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round!
<ev> ah, Scott is having connection issues
<ev> order: surbhi, barry, mvo, ev, doko, Keybuk, cjwatson
<doko_> pong
<ev> hello doko_
<barry> is surbhi here today?
<ev> ah, csurbhi you're up :)
<barry> ah
 * ev fixes the template
<csurbhi> sorry
<csurbhi> i have almost finished the btrfs support for grub-2
<csurbhi> what remains to be done is decompression
<ev> \o/
<csurbhi> i am looking at it
<csurbhi> the btrfs patch needs to be tested
<csurbhi> i am planning to send out a patch on grub mailing list today
<csurbhi> was trying to figure out the licensing issues (GPLV2 vs GPLv3)
<csurbhi> chris mason has agreed to look at the code
<csurbhi> and ack it as GPL3 if it looks good
<csurbhi> so I am keeping my fingers crossed
<ev> awesome
<ev> good luck! :)
<csurbhi> meanwhile I am also looking at the decompression usage
<csurbhi> grub2 does not have zlib support yet
<csurbhi> ev, thanks a lot :)
<cjwatson> sorry, my stepson was 10 minutes late out of school
<csurbhi> luck is very much needed
<ev> no worries
<ev> haha
<cjwatson> oh, good that you got a response from Chris
 * mvo sends good luck as well if that helps :)
<csurbhi> cjwatson, just a few minutes ago
<cjwatson> rock
<csurbhi> :-)
<csurbhi> mvo, thanks.. it will surely help
<csurbhi> so am looking at the user space zlib code and how to use it
<csurbhi> writing a separate program to decompress a compressed .zip file
<csurbhi> once thats done, i am through with this :)
<csurbhi> and ofcourse the review - changes !
<csurbhi> thats it from my end ..
<ev> nice
<ev> barry: you're up
<barry> f-m-robust-python-packaging: worked on versioned .so patches for py3.2; pushed branch; engaged upstream; todo: catch up on thread and continue discussion in python-dev. f-m-python-versions: python 2.7 archive rebuilding and testing; ppa uploads going slow, need a script; worked on sbuild environment. f-m-python-continuous-integration: work on package to generate best-practices python packaging w/debian.  f-m-python-versions: sbuild
<barry> environment for python 2.7 archive rebuilding; working on automated script to rebulid python rdepends.  done.
<mvo> working on "buy-stuff" and "new-apps" specs for software-center, general s-c work/merging, fix auto-upgrade tester for lucid->maverick.
<mvo> (done)
<ev> Mostly been creating the wireless network configuration page for ubiquity.  I've got the basic code working with network-manager, just cleaning it up and abstracting it so I can later add connman support.
<ev> If I finish this and its UI code before the end of the week, I'll finish integrating some of the UI work for the automatic partitioning page.
<ev> (done)
<mvo> nice
<doko_> python2.7 rc2 for barry, some MIRs, linaro test-rebuild, openjdk-6 update to b20, investigate openjdk-6 regressions for 6b18, linaro gcc cross packaging merges (together with hrw), all in all, too much linaro
<doko_> done
<ev> haha
<ev> keybuk isn't here, so that leaves cjwatson
<cjwatson> done: got UEFI support mostly working as long as you make your own arrangements to boot the installer; stolen for OEM project (mostly done); fixed some long-standing grub2 maintainer script bugs
<cjwatson> todo: alpha-2; get started on foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer (I have a VM prepared for the purpose); more foundations-m-package-culling merges (esp. installer bits)
<cjwatson> --
<ev> #topic outstanding actions from the last meeting
<ev> syntax fail!
<ev> anyway, there weren't any :-P
<ev> [TOPIC] alpha-2
<MootBot> New Topic:  alpha-2
<ev> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27560 looks okay
<ev> any other thoughts on the alpha?  A very late landing of the installer and Wubi, which was my fault.  Apologies.
<cjwatson> don't really know the output of testing yet :)
<ev> [TOPIC] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ - no excuses, lend a hand (he says, having not done so himself)
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ - no excuses, lend a hand (he says, having not done so himself)
<ev> wow, I'm failing all over the place with this MootBot stuff
<ev> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> reminder: 10.04.1 is not that far off
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<cjwatson> if you have anything you want in there, please get it into the SRU queue ASAP
<ev> right, I've got some Live USB upgrade bugs to fix if memory serves.
<cjwatson> yeah, I uploaded casper for one of those but I think there was at least one more
<mvo> I will do another round of hardy -> lucid upgrade testing
<cjwatson> I uploaded a batch of grub2 fixes today, and would like to try to get in a fix for USB-to-USB installations (wrt GRUB installation target) as well
<ev> Regarding posting our activity reports directly to the wiki, did we ever discuss what we should do with Canonical-internal items?
<cjwatson> we're a little behind on the SRU queue but it's not too bad, maybe 10 items
<cjwatson> I don't remember discussing that
<ev> yeah, me either, but I wanted to be sure
<cjwatson> my snap opinion would be just send them to Robbie out of band
<ev> agreed, okay
<cjwatson> or, you know, just make sure your boss knows what you're doing :)
<ev> hahaha
<cjwatson> that's basically the point of reporting on internal items anyway
<ev> indeed
<ev> Anything else?
<ev> right
<cjwatson> I'll regenerate the list of stale merges after alpha-2's out, I think
<cjwatson> (sorry, that's all)
<ev> okay
<ev> no worries :)
<ev> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<ev> Glade's support for custom pygtk widgets is actually quite nice.  I'm remodelling a fair bit of ubiquity in that form as I implement the redesign.
<ev> A few of you haven't yet posted your activity reports to the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0630).  Please do so as soon as you can.
<ev> Anything else?
<cjwatson> firefox goes so much quicker when you reduce to five tabs
<ev> We're doing roulette with the chair as well, correct?
<cjwatson> *ahem*
<ev> lol
<ev> Chrome *ahem*
<cjwatson> chair> correct
<barry> cjwatson: i've almost completely switched to chromium
<cjwatson> didn't get on with its general feel when I last tried, may try again at some point
<barry> cjwatson: otoh, i do miss my favorite ff plugins.  haven't checked out the chrome plugin ecosystem yet
<ev> cjwatson: you were the last chair, right?
<cjwatson> I think I missed my week
<ev> oh, then you're up :)
<cjwatson> roulette says it's csurbhi's turn, although I can make up for my missed week if that's better
<ev> ah, that works
<ev> whichever is fine by me
 * csurbhi agrees :P
 * csurbhi agrees that its better if cjwatson chairs the next meeting
<ev> MonoDevelop sucks far less nowadays, for those of you doing Python development.
<cjwatson> heh, ok
<barry> man, i'm glad you haven't yet discovered that sekrit magikal hack in the script that always sorts barry >= 1 :)
<ev> Not quite there (''' ''' results in hilarity), but mostly good enough.
<ev> lol
<ev> right
<ev> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:24.
<ev> thanks all!
<barry> ev: doing a lot of c# these days?
<ev> barry: Python
<ev> I just like the idea of an IDE
<mvo> thanks
<barry> ah, cool!
<mvo> sounds like something to try out
<ev> and it seems to roughly match pyflakes.vim in magic powers
<ev> plus it has an integrated debugger (though I haven't given that a go yet)
<csurbhi> ev, thanks
<ev> if you do try it, use the Mono Team's PPA
<ev> err rather, http://badgerports.org/
<ev> cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-01
<huats> morning
<aday> wers: hey :) is there a meeting on today?
<wers> aday, hello. :) I dunno. mpt won't be here today and next week
<wers> ivanka isn't here too..
<aday> wers: no...
<wers> i dunno who's supposed to host the meeting...
<thorwil> well, if one of you 2 have something to discuss ... otherwise i guess there won't be a meeting
<aday> thorwil: not especially... what did you make of the draft personas?
 * thorwil checks the wave again
<thorwil> aday: how about adding a pensioner / senior citizen?
<aday> thorwil: yeah, that's a nice idea
<thorwil> aday: if handled with great care regarding the weighting, there could also be software developer :)
<aday> thorwil: i''ve been thinking about that too. it's dangerous though :)
<thorwil> aday: i see that. cutting them out is not nice, though )
<aday> thorwil: yes, i can see many devs objecting to that
<thorwil> aday: humphreybc needs me elsewhere, could you be so kind to add the suggestions to the wave?
<aday> thorwil: sure thing. no problem
<thorwil> thanks!
<aday> i guess that probably concludes today's meeting...
<wers> aday, sorry i wasnt able to participate. still busy in the office
<Pendulum> aday: just so you know, the accessibility team is also working on some personas
<thorwil> aday: perhaps as last thought: one could assemble a list of activities/areas of interest to then check if the personas touch all of them
<aday> Pendulum: thanks, that's good to know
<Pendulum> (we're just still in the "gathering information" stage)
<aday> Pendulum: yes, i want to do some research of my own
<wers> gtg. til next time
<aday> thorwil: yes, we should definitely do that
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-02
<SoL13666> ÃªÃ³ Ã­Ã Ã°Ã®Ã¤ ÃªÃ²Ã® Ã¨Ã§ Ã°Ã³Ã±Ã±ÃªÃ¨Ãµ Ã¥Ã±Ã²Ã¼?
<Kangarooo> meeting not happening?
<czajkowski> Kangarooo: what meeting?
<Kangarooo> czajkowski: ouh it was already.. just looked in frigde and i have different timezone.. ok then too late :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-27
<jdstrand> fyi, ubuntu-security weekly meeting has been postponed
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-28
<Laney> no TB?
<MooDoo> TB?
<Laney> tech board
<maco> did they put off the meeting for the rally?
<Laney> guess so
<Laney> I was hoping they could give us an answer :-)
<maco> yeah...
<ajmitch> Laney: don't worry, it wasn't the only meeting that got shuffled :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> the only one that I cared about though
<maco> well the DMB is stuck on a vote because we're not sure how to score split votes, and the TB's the ones who can decide that
<maco> though, the other 2 haven't emailed their votes in yet either
<Laney> yeah sorry, I should vote
<maco> oh heh, wasnt trying to guilt ya. i forgot who we were waiting on though
<Laney> kees: cjwatson: did TB just get reshuffled due to the rally? Do you intend to meet this week or is the meeting just skipped?
<kees> Laney: Laney TB is on Thursday, and we should be having it. Need to figure out when exactly it is here, though. :)
<Laney> 0um
<Laney> kees: oh sorry, thought it was today
<Laney> can't read :-)
<kees> Laney: no worries
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-29
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:06. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi everyone and welcome to this week's udd meeting.  who's here today?
<Riddell> hi
<spiv> I'm here, and jam is looking over my shoulder
<barry> who's here today who's *not* sitting in the plenary room in dublin? :)
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110629
<poolie> * some discussion about bug 608675 which is to do with merging between quilt stacks using a merge helper
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608675
<slangasek> barry: I'm only here-ish :)
<barry> slangasek: ah, hi.  we're using a higher bandwidth protocol :)
<slangasek> fair 'nuff :)
<spiv> * we're interrogating jelmer about how well his merge helper will address bug 608675.  So far it sounds good.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608675
<barry> poolie to send condensed summary of uds sessions (done)
<barry> poolie may start adopting lifeless's performance-tuesday blogging
<lifeless> (reminds me to send out out for this tuesday, though 'wrote state-of-ta-slides-for-dublin' is kinda boring)
<barry> send me mitigation strategies so i can document them. (i.e. for folks manually fixing some import failures)
<barry> jelmer to look into bug 609187 (warn when package import is out of date) - ongoing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<barry> Riddell to file bug saying that packaging branch pages on code.lp.net should be better labeled
<barry> - Riddell has a branch waiting for review
<vila> http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.from%282011-06-16%29
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.from%282011-06-16%29
<barry> good news is it's getting better
<barry> "poolie will take a pie in the face at uds-october if we get to zero packaage import failures"
 * barry will find or file a bug for launchpad to support native packages (make more specific)
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:53.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-30
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> plop
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110630
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110630
<NCommander> Who's here?
<janimo> me
 * GrueMaster is not here.
 * davidm is looking around
<NCommander> [topic] AI Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  AI Review
<NCommander> NCommander to get Documentation spec approved
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to get Documentation spec approved
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to get Documentation spec approved
<NCommander> c/o
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<NCommander> Mr. Burndown Chart is :-(
<NCommander> so looking at theburndown chart, it looks like a fair bit of the items are things that were done
<GrueMaster> I need to file a bug against iso.qa.ubuntu.com for the netboot image to get added.  The filesystem peroformance tests take 84 hours each to run.
<ogra> NCommander, the trend line still waits for your spec to be approved ;)
<GrueMaster> And they only run on one system.
<janimo> GrueMaster, can't there be a much sorter but still representative test?
<janimo> like 1 r?
<NCommander> ogra: just fix it. At the rate we're going, that spec won't get approved until after A2
<ogra> whats so hard about just having steve to check the checkbox in LP ? should i ask him to do it ?
<NCommander> ogra: if you want to
<ogra> k
<NCommander> [action] ogra to get NCommander's documentation spec approved
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to get NCommander's documentation spec approved
<NCommander> anything else or can I move on
<ogra> move
<ogra> well
<ogra> no
<ogra> we probably need to look over the A2 items
<NCommander> ogra: I ended up finishing several ofyour items so I'll mark those DONE now
<ogra> since we are unlikely to achieve all of them we should look which we can postpone
<ogra> to make kate happy
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> We have ubuntu-server images! (thanks infinity)
<ogra> and i heard roumors that netbook works
<ogra> mahmoh1, ^^^ any input ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> netboot
<persia> netbook?  AI thought that was dropped.
<GrueMaster> U-boot PXE testing is in progress.
<mahmoh1> mahmoh1: I wasn't able to get it to complete yet, waiting on NCommander but pxe boot works now
<infinity> persia: s/netbook/netboot/, ogra can't type.
<persia> ah
<mahmoh1> still needs cleanup though but usb pxe is recognized, downloads, etc.
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<NCommander> anyone around or should I move on?
<GrueMaster> Apparently no kernel issues - everything is perfect?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> no progress this week
<NCommander> netboot installer is pretty much done on omap4 sans partman-logic
<janimo> still a few main ftbfs left
<rsalveti> everything is perfect on the kernel side, no progress ;-)
<NCommander> I think as far as porting goes, we're looking decent for A2
<ogra_> awesome
<infinity> I had a talk with doko about the upstart issue last night.  No real progress there, though.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> So we have a netboot image */copy and paste from before*
<ogra_> desktop is broken atm ... (possibly headless too)
<ogra_> jasper is misbeahving
<GrueMaster> Will test server image after meeting.
<ogra_> move ?
<ppisati> hallo :)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<NCommander> ppisati: cooloney we'll loop backto kernel status after this
<GrueMaster> Hey, thats me.
<ppisati> sorry, i had the "goal review" right now :P
<ogra_> baaad timing :)
<ppisati> right :)
<GrueMaster> Work with Jenkins team to get that operational.  Now ready to start adding tests.
<ogra_> we'll go back to kernel later :)
<ogra_> \o/
<ppisati> i think i'm going to be dragged out again soon
<GrueMaster> mahmoh1 and I are workingtogether on the u-boot pxe stuff, and ramping up on server testing.
<GrueMaster> Nothing else to see here, move along.
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<ppisati> on zinc, on my oneiric tree, you can find an oneiric/ti-omap4-next branch
<ppisati> but don't even try it, it kernel panics on boot
<ppisati> vanilla (3.0-rc5 + TI BSP provided byu agreen/TI)
<GrueMaster> That would be bad.
<ogra_> thats 3.0 ?
<ppisati> sorry, they are calling me again
<ogra_> *snap* :P
<ogra_> ppisati, thanks for the update !!!!
<ogra_> cooloney, anything to add ?
<ppisati> can we talk about it tonight?
<ogra_> or tomorrow :)
<GrueMaster> ppisati: This is mainly for public facing progress.  Thanks.
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<GrueMaster> BOA?
<ogra_> OAB !
<NCommander> I don't see what Bank of America hasto do withthis
<GrueMaster> Dobee dobee doo
<ogra_> twiddle
<NCommander> closing in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:23.
<pitti> cjwatson, kees: TB meeting in 5 - shall we meet IRL?
<kees> pitti: sure thing, where at?
<pitti> desktop room is too crowded -- we might try the meeting room at the reception?
<cjwatson> couch meeting
<Laney> please try to keep irc roughly informed :-)
<kees> \o/
<pitti> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:07. The chair is pitti.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> [topic] Set series RM to ubuntu-release? (
<MootBot> New Topic:  Set series RM to ubuntu-release? (
<pitti> I don't see anything left which would prevent us from doing it
<cjwatson> I'm happy to take the action to make that change and make sure stuff still works
<cjwatson> so I think we should double-check the following things after making this change:
<cjwatson>  * non-core-dev kernel uploaders (let's say) can target tasks to oneiric
<pitti> that part has been tested, I think
<cjwatson>  * non-release-team core-devs can target tasks to oneiric
<cjwatson>  * non-core-dev release team members can modify oneiric milestones
<kees> yeah, the taks targetting has been tested
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/451390/comments/10
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [Critical,Fix released]
<cjwatson> sorry, I actually mean stable releases, not oneiric
<cjwatson> (oneiric already has the series RM set to ubuntu-release)
<cjwatson> ok, let's jfdi
<kees> +1
<pitti> [topic] Measuring installation success/failure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Measuring installation success/failure
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-June/000935.html
<kees> right, I replied to that in agreement with pitti
<pitti> we have +1s in email from kees and me
<cjwatson> (one sec, just moving to a meeting room and adding sabdfl)
<pitti> (catching up sabdfl to the recent discussion)
<cjwatson> we're generally in favour with Evan's current proposal, and discussing how the data would be kept
<cjwatson> Principles (summarising from RL):
<cjwatson>  * the purpose of collecting the data is to make Ubuntu better
<cjwatson>  * while we won't make the data entirely public (avoiding unexpected privacy concerns, and competitive questions), people with technical/research projects who have a need for it can ask the TB for data
<pitti>  * for opt-out we need to write a privacy policy
<cjwatson> people who are concerned about what data we're collecting can of course examine the client source code; we won't correlate IP addresses with this
<cjwatson>  * we need to discuss data security (against theft) with IS
<cjwatson>  * Canonical employees will need to apply to the TB like anyone else, if they want data access
<pitti> [vote] Create a install report system as proposed by Evan under above conditions
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Create a install report system as proposed by Evan under above conditions.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pitti> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<sabdfl> we should note concerns raised by scott, with his preference for complete publication of all data
<pitti> FTR: MRE for banshee didn't raise any discussion so far, but should be formally +1'ed on the ML
<pitti> Policy proposal for partner repository just was updated today -> by mail or next meeting
<pitti> some discussion about DMB voting procedure (just came in a day ago)
<kees> pitti: +1 on the MRE
<sabdfl> thanks all
<sabdfl> i'm now +1 on the MRE ;-)
<sabdfl> sorry, +2
<pitti> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:35.
<Laney> voting outcome?
<highvoltage> g/win 12
<maco> Laney: looks like they didnt discuss or vote on how we should tally votes :-/
<Laney> maco: no idea what 'some discussion' is...
<Laney> pitti: any clue? :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-01
<benonsoftware> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 23:17. The chair is benonsoftware.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<benonsoftware> Vote: Please vote for this demo topic
<benonsoftware> [VOTE] Test Vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Test Vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<benonsoftware> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 1
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:19.
<benonsoftware> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 23:22. The chair is benonsoftware.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<benonsoftware> Here
<benonsoftware> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:23.
<skaet> hiya, just in case you haven't seen the email,  we will NOT be having a release meeting today.   Agenda with dates, and info is available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-01
<skaet> Reminder to all - Alpha 2 is scheduled for July 7th.
<highvoltage> skfin: ah thanks, I was just wondering about that :)
<highvoltage> (oops, meant skaet)
<skfin> highvoltage: No problem :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-03
<holstein> *due to the holidays, the ubuntustudio meeting scheduled for 15 minutes ago will be cancelled
<shnatsel> lol
<shnatsel> is it going to be re-scheduled?
<shnatsel> holidays actually explain why I got no response in -dev mailing list and why it's so quiet
<holstein> shnatsel: we could reschedule
<holstein> are you here for the ubuntustudio meeting?
<shnatsel> holstein: yes
<shnatsel> holstein: I got no response on the mailing list so I came here
<shnatsel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html
<StevenR> that would explain the fireworks earlier
<StevenR> (actual fireworks that I could hear from my house)
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> shnatsel: would you join #ubuntustudio-devel ??
<shnatsel> holstein: np
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-25
<jdstrand> o/
<tyhicks> hello
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> let's start
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 18:05:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I've got a short week this week (working today and friday)
<jdstrand> I'm on community
<jdstrand> I've got libreoffice/oo.o that I am going to try to push out today
<jdstrand> I've also got patch piloting this week
<jdstrand> and I'm working on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is off today, but he is in the happy place and I know he is working on several updates
<jdstrand> sbc: you're up
<jdstrand> meh
<sbeattie> hehe
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> sbc: nm
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I'm fighting with openjdk, trying to backport to older releases.
<sbeattie> Otherwise, I'll try to pick up other work items.
<sbeattie> that's it for me; micahg, you're up
<micahg> sbeattie: I'm finishing up with Thunderbird 13.0.1 (natty) along with a unity-2d update to fix an issue with that, then there's the thunderbird langpack regression that I'll finally fix this week, then webkit all the way aside from helping sbeattie test the openjdk browser plugin when he finishes the backport (fixes a regression for me)
<micahg> sbeattie: sorry, didn't mean for the highlight :)
<micahg> and that's it I think
<tyhicks> I'm in the triage role this week
<tyhicks> The pidgin update I had been working on a couple weeks ago had been put on the back burner. I'm actively working it again. Should go out in the early part of this week.
<tyhicks> micahg and I will meet after this meeting to discuss ff/tbird testing. I'll likely have some testing to do as the result of that talk.
<tyhicks> I've still got merges to do
<tyhicks> That should keep me busy for this week
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I've got a short week too (off wed, thurs)
<jjohansen> I've still got to finish up on debian bug 676515, my last patch was oopsing
<ubottu> Debian bug 676515 in linux-2.6 "linux-2.6: AppArmor totally broken" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/676515
<jjohansen> other than that, /me is still trying to get an alpha 1 apparmor out with stacking
<jjohansen> I don't think that will happen this week now, but /me will be working towards that
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jjohansen> that is it for /me jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> hehe
 * jdstrand guessed that was the case
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdbd-pg-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/net6.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boost1.42.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsmi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 25 18:20:20 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-18.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-18.05.html
<jdstrand> sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks jjohansen
<micahg> jdstrand: thanks
<jjohansen> hehe
<sbeattie> thanks
<joshuahoover> ralsina: so bug #1017019 appears to be popping up in support requests now...xp and possibly vista users describing the same problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017019 in Ubuntu One Client "3.0.2 not run on XP" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017019
<ralsina> joshuahoover: right
<joshuahoover> ralsina: i see you have brian assigned to it, just wanted to let you know that i've seen at least a couple complaints via support about this too
<ralsina> joshuahoover: ack
<ralsina> joshuahoover: it fails on vista too, it seems
<ralsina> joshuahoover: also, wrong channel ;-)
<joshuahoover> ralsina: oops
<kees> o/
 * stgraber waves
<soren> o/
<cjwatson> here, though just woke up from a nap so excuse idiocy
<cjwatson> oh, ugh, and I'm chair
<cjwatson> please wait while I put the forgotten sugar in my coffee or else I'm going to be even more stupid
<lifeless> I read that as 'I'm chdir'
<slangasek> I'm ftrunc
<cjwatson> mdz: here?
<cjwatson> right, time to start I suppose
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 21:05:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<cjwatson> I don't see apologies from either mdz or pitti, but at least pitti is apparently offline, so I'll record them as absent for now
<mdz> cjwatson, here
<cjwatson> aha, excellent, thanks
<cjwatson> action review: none assuming the prior chair wasn't lying when they updated the agenda :)
<cjwatson> so
<cjwatson> #topic The process of granting a Microrelease Exception for Stable Release Updates - bdmurray
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: The process of granting a Microrelease Exception for Stable Release Updates - bdmurray
<cjwatson> bdmurray: Are you around and would you like to speak to this?
<bdmurray> cjwatson: yes and yes
<cjwatson> I know there's been a good deal of on-list discussion
<cjwatson> (Some of which I've even had a chance to read ...)
<bdmurray> reading some of the recent micro release exception requests on the mailing list I'm lead to believe that some TB members want to see a history of successful microreleases
<bdmurray> However, this isn't an official policy and if this is going to be one a procedure should be created for it
<kees> I (erroneously) convinced myself that successful SRU history was a requirement. This isn't documented, and may be counter-productive in some cases.
<kees> I think successful SRU history is just an additional piece of evidence, rather than a hard requirement.
<soren> kees: I'd agree with that.
<kees> (it's a very good piece of evidence)
<cjwatson> slangasek has articulated a fairly clear bootstrapping problem in some cases
<kees> yes
<cjwatson> I think we should be clear that we want a successful history when it's practical, and that we shouldn't institute a permanent MRE until there's been some track record of doing it right
<kees> it sounds like the main problem is bundling upstream fixes for bugs Ubuntu may not either have nor have run into yet, and how it is hard/impossible for the SRU team to deal with that.
<cjwatson> But I don't see why we can't unblock cases where there's essentially no practical non-microrelease way to update the package by saying "OK, let's give it a try"
<kees> cjwatson: ah, good idea
<cjwatson> (Whether "we" is the TB or the SRU team is a separate issue)
<bdmurray> And the SRU team needs to somehow know that a particular package is a candidate for an MRE and therefore should be evaluated differently
<kees> "provisional MRE" then
<cjwatson> There doesn't seem to have been *too* much problem in establishing that by vociferous discussion in this case
<cjwatson> Next time, if we communicate all this a bit more clearly, maybe the uploader can just tell us up-front
<cjwatson> But, indeed, the policy as written says nothing about SRU history, as far as I can see
<cjwatson> So this appears to be guidance, not a policy change
<stgraber> I'd be happy to see the TB grant a one-time/provisional MRE for such packages to proove themselves, then we can look at the result of that SRU and discuss a standard MRE
<mdz> IIRC the SRU team wanted the TB to make the call on these initially
<mdz> but maybe we should confirm that's still desirable?
<kees> so, in rl discussion with slangasek, the idea of an upstream micro release "breaking $foo number of users and fixing $bar number of users.", and that we (Ubuntu) needs to decide how we're comfortable with the foo/bar ratio.
<cjwatson> mdz: Steve spoke up in favour of continuing that today
<kees> right
<mdz> ah, I'm just reading his email now
<cjwatson> On the basis that the SRU team isn't in a much better position to evaluate this than the TB, and is already rather stretched in dealing with specifics of updates
<kees> I think the number of things wanting MRE will drop over time, so I'm happy with the TB continuing to be the gate-keeper here. One thing I might like to do is allow the SRU team to _revoke_ an MRE.
<cjwatson> These discussions do last a while when they come up, but I've not noticed us having so much in our queue that they've frozen out other work
<kees> i.e. if something goes really sideways enough times, the SRU team can require that the MRE process restart for a package.
<cjwatson> slangasek: Do you have anything you'd like to add to what you wrote in mail on this?
<slangasek> I think the folks that have been requesting the MREs have found the TB process to take longer than they would like; but I also think some of that is an artifact of the process not having been used where it should up to now
<cjwatson> kees: That seems like common sense, yes; the MRE process allows creating exceptions, not mandates
<cjwatson> slangasek: While that's true, I'm not sure they'd have found an ~ubuntu-sru-based process any quicker :-)
<slangasek> i.e. if there had been a clearer understanding on everyone's part that they need to apply for an MRE, they wouldn't have found themselves nearly so squeezed for time
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, I think they might have found it quicker, but only at the cost of the quality of the review
<slangasek> I think developers are much less likely to try to browbeat the TB ;)
<kees> do we have good ways to quickly measure regression-from-update for a package?
<slangasek> not at present
<slangasek> we're hoping errors.ubuntu.com will help with that this cycle
<slangasek> but until that's done, it's all very wishy-washy
<kees> okay.
<slangasek> we are making an effort now to have the SRU team actively track bugs tagged regression-update; that still relies on bug submitters using the tag correctly
<kees> cjwatson: do we need to vote on nova MRE, or can we just declare a provisional MRE for it?
<cjwatson> We clearly don't need to vote as the policy says that any single TB member can approve
<cjwatson> (Which I assume we'd talk about if there were contention)
<kees> yeah
<cjwatson> This is the chair-as-rules-lawyer principle, right? :)
<kees> okay, then I'll grant a provisional MRE on nova and document it.
<cjwatson> There seems to have been no objection to the general notion of provisional MREs, so please document that as a practice for cases where we don't have enough prior information
<kees> does anyone object to my adding some language around provisional MREs and how SRU history is good evidence?
<bdmurray> kees: document it where?  I'm curious about the SRU team will find out about the provisional MREs
<kees> bdmurray: I intend to put it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions seems like the obvious place
<soren> kees: No objection here. Sounds like a good idea.
<cjwatson> #action kees to document provisional MRE for nova, and practice for insufficient-information cases in general
<meetingology> ACTION: kees to document provisional MRE for nova, and practice for insufficient-information cases in general
<cjwatson> Do we feel this is enough to get us moving for the moment?
<bdmurray> I do
<slangasek> apropos of nothing, I think it would also be helpful if the TB would document rationale for the MREs
<slangasek> so that it's documented in the wiki page what the standard is that upstream is expected to continue to meet
<cjwatson> (I think http://paste.ubuntu.com/1059791/ says something but I'm not sure what)
<slangasek> heh
<cjwatson> I think at one point I tried to establish a tradition of linking to the summary of the discussion
<cjwatson> Or somebody did
<cjwatson> I'll just edit the page now to say "please link to a summary of the discussion when adding to this list)
<cjwatson> "
<cjwatson> kees: Or I won't because you have the lock.  Could you?
<kees> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> OK, anything more on this topic?
<kees> alright, I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions if people want to take a quick read
<slangasek> do we have a shared understanding of what "micro-version updates" means there?  does that mean "bugfix-only releases"?
<slangasek> that's how I interpret it anyway, but other devs might understand it otherwise when reading this page
<slangasek> I'm happy with what's there
<soren> When the TB gets an application for an MRE, it'll probably say something about what a micro-version update usually contains.
<soren> I suspect it'll almost alwys be bugfix-only releases.
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#New_upstream_microreleases kind of talks about it
<cjwatson> Slightly circularly but I think the meaning is clear
<slangasek> hmm yes, I think that is problematically circular :)
<bdmurray> should the diff being reviewed part be in the 'sru verification' part of the page?
<slangasek> because that page explicitly talks about microreleases *not* requiring an exception, which is something else
<cjwatson> I don't think it needs to be attached to the bug, but I do think that somebody should look it over so that we know what we're getting
<bdmurray> right but that happens before the package is accepted into -proposed not during the verification process
<cjwatson> Oh, yes
<slangasek> my own understanding is that a "new upstream microrelease" is always bugfix-only, and that a developer *may* put such a release through without an exception if they intend to do traditional SRU verification of all the changes individually... and otherwise they can apply for an MRE
<kees> slangasek: that matches my understanding as well.
<slangasek> if the TB as a whole agrees with that, I'm happy to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates to make this clearer
<cjwatson> I agree
<stgraber> +1
<soren> +1
<slangasek> sounds like the vote passes - thanks
<cjwatson> Right, let's move on to the rest of the agenda.  Thanks
<cjwatson> #topic Recurring: Brain storm review (Next due: May 2012)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Recurring: Brain storm review (Next due: May 2012)
<cjwatson> Whose turn is it?
<cjwatson> I know we've had some discussion about how useful this has been; but I'd kind of like to see us give it one more go and see if it's just a matter of personal efficiency :)
 * kees failed terribly at it
<cjwatson> Mine was qualified success at best, but mdz did it very efficiently as I recall
<cjwatson> So we have three left
<soren> I'm not sure what this involves?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/BrainstormReview
<cjwatson> Oh yes, pitti did it pretty efficiently too, so two left
<cjwatson> The hypothesis that kees and I are just slackers has not been disproven
<soren> Sure, let me have a stab at it.
<soren> I won't meet the May deadline, though.
<cjwatson> SLACKER
<cjwatson> But great :-)
<stgraber> soren: thanks! did we have a year associated with that deadline? :)
<soren> I'm afraid so.
<cjwatson> I fear that the agenda does
<soren> I'm apparently false.
<soren> false (1)            - do nothing, unsuccessfully
<soren> I've not even started and I'm already almost a month behind schedule.
<soren> Oh, well.
<cjwatson> #action soren to start on brainstorm review
<meetingology> ACTION: soren to start on brainstorm review
<cjwatson> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<cjwatson> The main thing I see is the LibreOffice MRE
<cjwatson> Which seems to have been slightly stalled on the same discussion as above
<cjwatson> Does anyone want to restart that discussion on-list in light of this?  It looks like the most recent dissent was between kees and pitti
<cjwatson> kees: ?
<kees> I'm find with it
<kees> *fine
<kees> we should probably do a provisional for it, just to be safe
<cjwatson> It looks like a decent case for a provisional one given your concern about earlier history
<cjwatson> #action kees to follow up to LibreOffice MRE discussion in light of today's debate
<meetingology> ACTION: kees to follow up to LibreOffice MRE discussion in light of today's debate
<cjwatson> Nothing new on community bugs and I have a long enough queue to not want to volunteer to move those LP bugs forward *just* yet, though maybe in future :-)
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<stgraber> nothing here
<cjwatson> going once
<cjwatson> going twice
<cjwatson> *gavel*
<cjwatson> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<cjwatson> kees: looks like you're next in rotation - is that OK?
<cjwatson> cal(1) says 2012-07-09
 * kees double checks
<kees> yup, I'm around.
<cjwatson> Great
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 25 21:56:45 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-21.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-21.05.html
<cjwatson> Thanks all
<kees> thanks cjwatson!
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-26
<arosales> Hello
<m_3> o/
<Daviey> hey
<smoser> o/
<smb> \o
<jimbaker`> hi
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> lets wait 2 more mins for SpamapS?
<zul> hiho
<utlemming> o/
<Daviey> jamespage: Do you want to go now?  SpamapS isn't yet here.
<adam_g> o/
<SpamapS> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 26 16:03:52 2012 UTC.  The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> arosales to follow up with rbask on finding the correct home for the Ubuntu Server blog.
<SpamapS> Oh, and hi everybody ;)
<arosales> rbasak: has made an IS request to have the blogged moved
<arosales> SpamapS: so that in progress per rbasak's work
<SpamapS> woot
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> #action rbasak follow up on IS request to move Ubuntu Server blog
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak follow up on IS request to move Ubuntu Server blog
<SpamapS> Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> oops
<SpamapS> Ctrl-C before Ctrl-Shift-V...
<SpamapS> jamespage to follow up with hallyn on servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review
<Daviey> 16:53 < jamespage> hallyn, pre-empting my non-action from last weeks team meeting
<jamespage> SpamapS, I've actually remembered what that is now
<Daviey> 16:53 < jamespage> the check from the servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review blueprint was related to checking the functionality of a VM post host upgrade
<hallyn> inprogress :)
<Daviey> 16:53 < jamespage> I think
<Daviey> 16:53 < jamespage> i.e. if we upgrade precise->quantal do VM's keep functioning
<jamespage> SpamapS, still inprogress
<jamespage> but I really don't think we need to track it here
<hallyn> nope
<hallyn> thx
<Daviey> sounds sensible to drop it's special treatment :)
<SpamapS> sorry got lagged out for a second
<SpamapS> utlemming to follow up with rbasak on getting armhf images using highbank
<utlemming> SpamapS: in progress
<SpamapS> do we need to check in on that again next week? Sounds like its getting handled
<SpamapS> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<utlemming> if we need follow up next week, I'll raise it
<SpamapS> Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged]
<SpamapS> hallyn: ^?
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/920197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 920197 in python-webob (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] webob last stable version 1.1.1 response header bug" [High,Triaged]
 * SpamapS parallelizes
<SpamapS> zul: ^?
<zul> crap totally forgot about that one
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001846
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001846 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "cobbler fails to install with error code 1" [High,Confirmed]
<SpamapS> Andres is not here, will skip that
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1008537 in sphinx (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] Segmentation fault during tests" [High,Confirmed]
<SpamapS> Also no arges here
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1009579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1009579 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tomcat7 (replaces tomcat6)" [High,New]
<SpamapS> jamespage: ^?
<jamespage> SpamapS, its in the MIR queue
<jamespage> tomcat7 got acked - but I pulled in a new dep for testing enablement
<SpamapS> jdstrand: how is the MIR queue for quantal looking btw?
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014005 in ipxe (Ubuntu) "Please generate and include ipxe.dsk to the ipxe binary package" [Wishlist,Triaged]
 * jamespage is about to add three more package to the MIR queue
<SpamapS> ipxe, no assignee
<hallyn> SpamapS: bug 974584, i pinged slangasek yesterday, will do so again today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<SpamapS> Daviey: ^^ ? ipxe in your sphere of interest?
<SpamapS> hallyn: cool
<hallyn> Daviey somehow things i want to maintain ipxe :)
<hallyn> so next time we push ipxe, i was going to see about doing 1014005
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/bugs/935516
<hallyn> haven't looked enough to even be sure it's reasonable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935516 in genshi (Ubuntu Precise) "genshi version 0.6-2 FTBFS on i386 in precise" [High,Triaged]
<SpamapS> This needs an assignee
<SpamapS> anyone?
<Daviey> hallyn: :D
<SpamapS> moving on
<SpamapS> Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<Daviey> SpamapS: it's blocked on upstream
<SpamapS> bad trend line.. ;)
<arosales> some ARM server blueprint work items came in late
<hallyn> I think I might need to go through some of my items and break them down further (and other people's lxc items)
<arosales> I'll try to get the trend line readjusted to accommodate those late additions.
<hallyn> they certainly are not half-day or less chunks, as we used to aim for
<SpamapS> I don't know if we can hilight any yet
<SpamapS> Seems like we're just now really getting definition on them
<arosales> hallyn: let me know when if you add work items, so I can sync the trend line after that
<SpamapS> so unless there's a specific blueprint people want to bring up.. I think we should probably move on
<hallyn> arosales: ok (thanks, didn't know you wanted that)
<arosales> be nice if we can get a good trend line representation by end of the week
<SpamapS> indeed
<SpamapS> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<Daviey> desktop-q-xorg-general is essential for server quantal, apparently
<Daviey> oops, sorry
<jamespage> http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<jamespage> Not much to update since last weel
<jamespage> quite a bit of stuff needs verification - especially around the recent nova upload - zul is there any specific arrangement around that?
<zul> jamespage: errmm......ill talk to you offline about it
<SpamapS> With Nova, we need to just make sure the CI tests pass with the packages from proposed
<jamespage> zul, sure
<jamespage> SpamapS, ack
<adam_g> if thats all we need, we can have something referenced on them soon
<SpamapS> Other than that, verification of any High/Criticals that have actual test cases would be appreciated, but is not necessary. The update will move to -updates when all the CI tests have worked.
<Daviey> SpamapS / zul: can i be in the offline discussion please
<zul> Daviey: yep
<jamespage> if anyone wants to pickup a few SRU's then pick something from the 'Unassigned' list - based on priority would be good
<jamespage> Daviey, smoser: we also need to sort out what MAAS is going to target for 12.04.1
<Daviey> jamespage: yes.
<smoser> roaksoax, clearly is involved in that, and "upstream"
<jamespage> sure
<Daviey> jamespage: it's semi-blocked atm fwiw
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<jamespage> nope
<SpamapS> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> Velocity is this week, with jcastro and hazmat attending, talking about Juju
 * jamespage <- Euro Python next week (talking about Juju)
<SpamapS> Also OSCON is coming up July 16 - 20 in Portland, and we will have a juju charm school there
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> no hggdh today
<SpamapS> Anybody else have QA news though?
<Daviey> Sort of..
<jamespage> QA team are starting to transfer ISO test cases to UTAH - meeting with gema next week to review
<Daviey> If you have an opportunity to try the daily candidates for A2, please do so :)
<Daviey> jamespage: Gema will be here?
<jamespage> no not here - outside of this meeting
<Daviey> jamespage: can i be pinged into that please?
<jamespage> Daviey, sure
<smoser> wait...
<jamespage> later in the week
<smoser> wait. daily candidates?
<smoser> are we not expecting kernel upload still?
<smoser> smb, ?
<smb> done
<smb> Kernel 3.5.0-2.2 has been uploaded to quantal-proposed (i386 ec2 issue)
<smoser> and we have ISOs that have those in it?
<smb> about 2 hrs ago
<Daviey> no, not yet
<SpamapS> good segue
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smoser> well, then testing would make no sense.
<Daviey> I will spin new images shortly
<smoser> Daviey, can you do that?
<smoser> the kernel is in -proposed
<smb> Apart from ther quantal kernel... Finally the scheduler bug that tried to drive me crazy has been identified. A proper upstream fix is under discussion and testing.
<smoser> so we wont even pick it up in cloud iamge builds.
<SpamapS> Daviey: sorry thought you were done begging for ISO testers ;)
<smb> ..
<smoser> by design we do not pick up proposed.
<Daviey> smoser: I'm on the hook for spinning cd's this week
<Daviey> smb: have the bug number?
<smoser> i guess i should have realized this change earlier, but did not.
<smb> Daviey, of what. Things are a bit jumbled up... ;)
<smoser> ie if we're using -proposed during the development cycle, then our cloud image builds will not pick from it, ever.
<Daviey> smb: Do you have bug numbers for anything concerning you? :)
<Daviey> smoser: Yes, same as cd images.
<smb> bug 999755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999755 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel crash in rb_next doing ohai loops" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999755
<smb> Otherwise nothing of immediate importance
<SpamapS> Settled then?
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<Daviey> ta
<SpamapS> rbasak: ^^
 * Daviey does a little jig whilst waiting.
<SpamapS> rbasak: we'll come back if you have anything
<SpamapS> #topic Welcome jimbaker to Server team (arosales).
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Welcome jimbaker to Server team (arosales).
<SpamapS> jimbaker`: welcome.. again? ;)
<arosales> SpamapS: sorry that didn't removed from last week
<arosales> but welcome jimbaker` to the server team :-)
<Daviey> woot.. double welcome, he must be special
<SpamapS> we should make it a weekly item tho
<jimbaker`> thanks!
<Daviey> (my fault for not remvoing it)
<SpamapS> really, we want to be welcoming
<SpamapS> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> o/` Henry Kissinger.. I've been missing ya.. o/`
<SpamapS> Alright, everybody is busy and ready to work, so... without further adue..
<SpamapS> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> lets go home.
<SpamapS> Tuesday, July 3, 16:00 UTC, here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 26 16:38:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-26-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-26-16.03.html
<SpamapS> Thanks everybody!
<arosales> Thanks SpamapS for chairing
<jimbaker`> to clarify one point just made, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5vo7jLGOb8
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 26 16:59:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<herton> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<smb> \o
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: nothing new this week - for alpha2 we are going to use alpha1 kernel, but after we cut this milestone, work on a 3.5 "almost vanilla" kernel will immediately start.
<ppisati> Q/omap3: 3.5rcX came with regressions in different subsets (video, mmc and usb) - a pending kernel (3.5.2-2) should have fixed all these issues.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-quantal-alpha-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || cooloney    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jk-         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati     || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || smb         || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || kernel-team || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-2 work
<ogasawara> items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently rebased the Quantal kernel to the latest v3.5-rc4
<ogasawara> upstream kernel and have also uploaded.  We hope for this to land in the
<ogasawara> Alpha 2 images.  This also contains some critical bug fixes for omap3 and
<ogasawara> i386 cloud images.  It's currently building in the quantal-proposed
<ogasawara> pocket.  This will also get uploaded to the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to
<ogasawara> help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We welcome any
<ogasawara> early adopters to please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Jun 28 - Alpha 2 (2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs July 26 - Alpha 3 (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (June  26):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.102 - Waiting to go to -updates; 2 CVEs
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.91  - Waiting to go to -updates; 2 CVEs
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-15.61  - Waiting to go to -updates; 3 CVEs
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-22.36   - Waiting to go to -updates; 1 upstream stable release (approx. 60 commits), 1 CVE
<bjf>  * Precise  - 3.2.0-26.41   - In testing; 1 upstream stable release (approx. 137 commits)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be
<bjf> built.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> == 2012-06-26 (weekly) ==
<bjf> Currently we have 91 CVEs on our radar, with one CVE retired this week.
<bjf> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> Any other topics or discussions for today?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 26 17:05:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-26-16.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-26-16.59.html
<euryale>  guys, y does ubuntu got my volume control disabled?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-27
<MohamedAlaa98> hello guys :)
<head_victim> Evening MohamedAlaa98, here for the membership board meeting?
<MohamedAlaa98> yep :)
<head_victim> Ah yes, fourth on the list :)
<head_victim> Few minutes to go yet, but feel free to warm up ;)
<MohamedAlaa98> yeah, i feel that :)
<head_victim> So do we have enough board members here tonight :)
<MohamedAlaa98> I don't know
<jamesh> hopefully :)
 * micahg is here
<MohamedAlaa98> welcome :)
<MohamedAlaa98> Who will be the chair?
 * cyphermox is here
<cyphermox> MohamedAlaa98: since you're volunteering... ;)
<head_victim> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 27 12:04:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is head_victim. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<IdleOne> Good morning o/
<e-jat> Hi
<MohamedAlaa98> Good morning :)
<head_victim> #chairs micahg cjohnston e-jat IdleOne
<jaddi27> Good evening from Australia
<head_victim> #chair micahg cjohnston e-jat IdleOne
<meetingology> Current chairs: IdleOne cjohnston e-jat head_victim micahg
<head_victim> #voters IdleOne cjohnston e-jat head_victim micahg Pendulum cyphermox
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: e-jat
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne Pendulum cjohnston cyphermox e-jat head_victim micahg
<head_victim> So, please bear with us, we have a few new board members so it may take a little longer than normal but we'll get there :)
<e-jat> :)
<head_victim> Ok
<head_victim> #meetingtopic 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<head_victim> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<head_victim> #topic gipsypyaesone - Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gipsypyaesone - Membership Application
<head_victim> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for 27/06/2012. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<head_victim> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<head_victim> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<head_victim> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<head_victim> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<head_victim> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<head_victim> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<head_victim> So it doesn't appear gypsyaesone is here, we might move along to the second applicant.
<head_victim> #topic jaddi27 - Joel Addison's Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  jaddi27 - Joel Addison's Membership Application
<jaddi27> Hello. My name is Joel Addison. I am a software engineering student from Brisbane, Australia, who is very interested in Ubuntu and open source software. I have been a member of the Ubuntu Australian Team for several years now, and have helped out with various activities
<head_victim> Joel, can you please introduce yourself to the board while we read over your application
<jaddi27> My main contribution has been through translations, where I have completed around 50,000 strings for en_AU over the past few months along with sagaci
<head_victim> As one of the people one the page as a testimonial I will say jaddi27 has been one of the more active members in the loco
<cjohnston> just 50,000? ;-)  Thats about 50,000 more than me. heh
<cjohnston> awesome work on translations
<head_victim> cjohnston: another loco member did over 200k from memory ;)
<cjohnston> wow
<jaddi27> It is still about 150,000 less than sagaci
<IdleOne> jaddi27: Why haven't you done more translation? :)
<head_victim> jaddi27: so what are you plans for the next 6 months with regards to your Ubuntu work.
<IdleOne> ignore my question it was silly anyway
<jaddi27> IdleOne, I would have done a few more if Uni had not crept up on me over the past few weeks
<jaddi27> Over the next 6 months I hope to continue with the translations, to keep the Q-series mostly up to date as the translations come in
<jaddi27> I also plan to keep helping out in the loco, with chairing meetings and moderating the social media pages
<Pendulum> jaddi27: You mention in your future goals that you'd like to get involved in bug fixing. Is this something you're already working on or something you're looking to start doing?
<jaddi27> I am looking to start doing more program development and bug fixing now that I am more confident in my ability to use the languages often used in Ubuntu applications
<jaddi27> I was thinking of entering the competition being run at the moment, but unfortunately did not have enough time with Uni and work
<jaddi27> I would like to look at creating a calendar and todo app that can be integrated with the calendar in the time menu
<head_victim> Ok, anymore questions?
<IdleOne> I have to get going folks. Congrats to all the new members in advance. For the record I am +1 for jaddi27 to be an Ubuntu member..
<cyphermox> jaddi27: feel free to ask me questui
<head_victim> #vote Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cyphermox> question if you get to working on that
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<ejat> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<head_victim> +1 keep up the good work in the loco and I look forward to some bug squashing.
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work in the loco and I look forward to some bug squashing. received from head_victim
<jaddi27> cyphermox, Ok. I will write a note to remember
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Joel Addison's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sagaci> gg
<head_victim> Congratulations jaddi27 you are now a Ubuntu Member :)
<Pendulum> jaddi27: Congrats and welcome!
<e-jat> congratulation jaddi27
<jaddi27> Thank you very much!
<MohamedAlaa98> congratulationa jaddi27 :)
<e-jat> keep up to the good work
<MohamedAlaa98> *congratulations
<head_victim> #topic jamesh - James Henstridge's Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  jamesh - James Henstridge's Membership Application
<jamesh> Hi.  My name is James Henstridge, and my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesHenstridge
<jamesh> I've been working for Canonical since 2004, on various things: I did a bit of desktop work back in the first release, then worked on Launchpad, and now work on Ubuntu One
<head_victim> Gday jamesh, very strong application but no testimonials. Is there anyone coming along in person to support?
<jamesh> head_victim: I asked a few of my colleagues about testimonials, but it doesn't look like they got round to adding them :(
<cjohnston> jamesh has done alot of great work on things that I use on a regular basis when it comes to sites like summit.ubuntu.com and loco.ubuntu.com... btw, jamesh django-openid-auth 0.4 was uploaded to Debian this morning!
<jamesh> cjohnston: cool!
<jamesh> outside of my work responsibilities, I've also been answering questions on the Ask Ubuntu site in my spare time, and do some other software development (some of which is packaged in Ubuntu)
<jamesh> I've been teaching myself Debian packaging too, so plan to continue with that and maybe get a few of my other small projects in a state where they could be added to Ubuntu
<e-jat> jamesh : aw3s0m3
<head_victim> jamesh: while we're reading through pages, have you thought about getting involved in the loco at all?
<jamesh> head_victim: I haven't really investigated it much.  I do attend PLUG meetings when I've got time, but that isn't strictly Ubuntu related
<head_victim> jamesh: that's not a problem, we're not that exclusive :) I'm trying to get HUMBUG to join up and do things as well.
<jamesh> I did give a talk there about some of the stuff we'd been doing in U1 last year
<head_victim> Nice work, if you ever need materials for events give me a ping (I'm the team contact ;) ) and we can try to organise stuff to make it more fun.
<jamesh> head_victim: I have mentioned to them that it might be worth trying to form some kind of affiliation though: there are a fair number of Ubuntu and Debian users there to help people
<head_victim> jamesh: sounds good, if ever there are any events sing out and I can shoot you over some CDs, banners, etc.
<jamesh> okay
<head_victim> jamesh: basically your application is thorough and well documented, but we really do like to see some sort of testimonial on the wiki or in the meeting
<head_victim> jamesh: if we put it off until the next meeting in 2 weeks do you think you could have some people add a note or email the mailing list with a bit of support?
<jamesh> head_victim: I suppose so.  But is this a hard and fast procedural thing, or do you think the application isn't sufficient?
<head_victim> It's more that it's a case of I can see what you've done but as someone in a different part of the community I dont' know what's involved in it
<head_victim> So testimonials are a good way to show that others in your area of the community concur.
<head_victim> As an example, I have no idea if 302 answers on Ask Ubuntu is good, I think it is but really, I've used that page twice so can't be sure.
<jamesh> okay.  I can certainly chase up the people I asked again.  It wasn't clear that it was a hard and fast requirement.  I did include links to things like the bugzilla->LP migration that I hoped would be evidence of what I have done
<Pendulum> jamesh: Part of it is that Ubuntu Membership is a community recognition. Testimonials help us see how you are part of the community/that others see you that way.
<jamesh> Pendulum: okay.
<head_victim> jamesh: ok so sorry to be a pain if we can get a few testimonials we'd probably all feel a lot more comfortable. We'll also work on making the documentation more clear to explain the logic behind it.
<jamesh> head_victim: I just asked aquarius if he could give a short testimonial now, if that's okay
<aquarius> hey, I'm happy to give a testimonal for jamesh (am I butting in?)
<head_victim> aquarius: go for it
<aquarius> James is excellent. :)
<head_victim> aquarius: and you've worked with him on anything in particular or day to day?
<aquarius> He's part of my team at Canonical, working on Ubuntu One
<aquarius> but I've also seen and used his contributions to free software outside our working lives
<aquarius> the PyGTK bindings were particularly useful!
<head_victim> aquarius: so his contributions to the team and Ubuntu would meet the significant and sustained requirement for membership in your opinion?
<aquarius> Absolutely, yes, in my opinion jamesh's contributions are both significant and sustained, and he qualifies for Ubuntu membership.
<head_victim> aquarius: thanks so much for your help :)
<aquarius> No problem. :)
<e-jat> tq aquarius for your opinion and testimonial :)
<cjohnston> thanks aquarius
<dholbach> I'd echo aquarius' statement: James has been around since almost forever in the Ubuntu project, working on Launchpad, Ubuntu One and small pieces all over the place and he has always been super-helpful and is generally just a great guy! :)
<head_victim> dholbach: greatly appreciate your input
<dholbach> (sorry for jumping in here, but I had no idea jamesh was up for membership :-))
<cyphermox> let's vote :)
<Pendulum> aquarius, dholbach: thanks for speaking up!
<e-jat> http://askubuntu.com/users/12469/james-henstridge can see jamesh contribution â¦
<jamesh> thanks aquarius, dholbach!
<head_victim> dholbach: please do, we were umming and arring as there were no testimonials now we have 3 so I think we can probably get this going now
<dholbach> :-)
<head_victim> #vote James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Please vote on: James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<e-jat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from e-jat
<head_victim> +1 Thorough application, nice work and good to see some support come through
<meetingology> +1 Thorough application, nice work and good to see some support come through received from head_victim
<penreturns> +1
 * head_victim prods micahg 
<micahg> +1 good testimonials, nice work over the life of Ubuntu
<meetingology> +1 good testimonials, nice work over the life of Ubuntu received from micahg
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: James Henstridge's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<e-jat> congratulation jamesh
<jamesh> thanks.
<head_victim> Congratulations jamesh sorry it was a little painful for a while there
<Pendulum> jamesh: congrats!
<head_victim> Please drop by the loco channel someday or join in the mailing list :)
<aquarius> woo jamesh!
<head_victim> dholbach, aquarius  thanks for dropping in when you did :)
<dholbach> congratulations!
<dholbach> :)
<head_victim> #topic  MohamedAlaa98 Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Membership Board Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MohamedAlaa98 Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
<head_victim> MohamedAlaa98: pelase introduce yourself while we read the application
<MohamedAlaa98> Hi. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MohamedAlaa
<MohamedAlaa98> and My launchpad profile is https://launchpad.net/~m-alaa8
<MohamedAlaa98> My name is Mohamed Alaa, Egyptinan, 13 YO, Python programmer, Ubuntu translator, Bug triager, Community contributer, ubuntu-eg support squad, I give support on ubuntu-eg facebook group and I'm trying hard to spread ubuntu everywhere.
<MohamedAlaa98> Outside community, i'm currently working on a Python project named indicator-prayer-times, as well as I have learned packaging python projects through launchpad nest-packaging.
<head_victim> Well at 13 I wouldn't have even been able to work out how to sign the CoC so that's a good start
<MohamedAlaa98> thanks :)
<MohamedAlaa98> I respect and follow free software philosophy and I advocate open-source and free software whenever possible.
<thelinuxer> hi I am here to testify for him, so please tell me when it's time to do so :)
<head_victim> thelinuxer: so young MohamedAlaa98 is fairly active in the loco?
<thelinuxer> yes he is
<thelinuxer> I am actually amazed by his level of activity
<thelinuxer> his answers and trouble shooting skills
<e-jat> thelinuxer : im amaze too :)
<head_victim> And it's been sustained for a while?
<thelinuxer> and actually I think a good number of our group members ask him directly for help
<thelinuxer> yes it's been sustained
<thelinuxer> he also showed he's a good team player by working on a development project with another team member
<thelinuxer> I really think he's talented and dedicated and I expect a lot from him in the future if he's encouraged to go to the right direction.
<thelinuxer> I am done :)
<head_victim> thelinuxer: It's good to see the -eg team taking him in and giving him direction :)
<e-jat> thanks thelinuxer
<MohamedAlaa98> thelinuxer: thank you for your support :)
<thelinuxer> head_victim: we are trying :)
<thelinuxer> e-jat: yw :)
<thelinuxer> MohamedAlaa98: yw :)
<Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: what do you do outside of your Ubuntu work?
<MohamedAlaa98> i'm currently working on a Python project named indicator-prayer-times
<MohamedAlaa98> and now i'm learning bug fixing
<Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: Sorry for not being clear; I meant, when you're not on the computer?
<cyphermox> MohamedAlaa98: on that subject, it would be very cool to see this shipping in Ubuntu soon; since it's in a PPA already and probably working fairly well, that would be a good step forward :)
<MohamedAlaa98> ah, I play football, i love to draw
<thelinuxer> cyphermox: and I am actually using his application right now
<MohamedAlaa98> cyphermox: I hope that :)
 * e-jat also looking the package will be in ubuntu universe
<head_victim> #vote Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<e-jat> +1 good work and contributions ..
<meetingology> +1 good work and contributions .. received from e-jat
<Pendulum> +1 keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from Pendulum
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<head_victim> +1 good to see your focus and drive being exerted in guided manners. It's a good sign of both the loco and yourself.
<meetingology> +1 good to see your focus and drive being exerted in guided manners. It's a good sign of both the loco and yourself. received from head_victim
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Mohamed Alaa's Ubuntu Membership Application
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<e-jat> congrate MohamedAlaa98
<thelinuxer> congrats MohamedAlaa98 :)
<head_victim> Congratulations MohamedAlaa98 :)
<Pendulum> MohamedAlaa98: congrats and welcome!
<MohamedAlaa98> e-jat Pendulum cyphermox cjohnston head_victim Thank you all :)
<MohamedAlaa98> Pendulum: thank you :)
<e-jat> yw
<MohamedAlaa98> thank you all :)
<MohamedAlaa98> thank you all for your support :)
<e-jat> keep up the good work !
<MohamedAlaa98> e-jat: Sure!
<head_victim> Thanks everyone to showing, it's good to see the first 1200 UTC board meeting nearly stayed within time ;)
<e-jat> thanks to all board members
<jamesh> thanks everyone!
<head_victim> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 27 13:16:48 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-12.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-12.04.html
<ejat> thanks everyone
<jaddi27> head_victim, Thanks for running the meeting
 * xnox 0/
<infinity> \o
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
<infinity> xnox: Your head is enormous.
<jodh> o/
<ev> hi
<doko> slangasek, I'd like to go first, leaving in 20min
<slangasek> infinity: also he's a cyclops
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 27 15:02:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> doko: go ahead
<doko> - python 3.3.0 beta1 work (upstreaming patches, updating libffi, packaging)
<doko> - wip: python3.3 cross build
<doko> - help wanted: why no output when building the extension modules
<doko> - gcc updates, applied temporary work around to fix std::list ABI incompatibility
<doko> - sent another gcc-multiarch update upstream, forwarded arm patches
<doko> - started reworking pysmbc python3, based on upstream feedback
<doko> - packaged openjdk-6 security update/release
<slangasek> doko: can you expand on the help wanted, give us a pointer to where it is you're expecting output and not seeing it?
<doko> ..
<doko> slangasek, chatting with barry
<slangasek> ok
 * barry looked at that "no output when building ext modules" back in the 2.6-ish time frame iirc.  at the time, i had no clue what's going on there :(
<slangasek> is the std::list temporary work-around consistent with what upstream is planning for 4.7.2?
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh stokachu ogra bdmurray xnox doko barry slangasek cjwatson ev stgraber infinity
<slangasek> jodh: your turn next
<doko> I didn't get any feedback from upstream ... it's something planned, but it got quiet again
<jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful re-exec support:
<jodh>   - lots of code refactoring to KISS ;)
<jodh>   - lots of progress on JobClass serialisation/deserialisation.
<jodh>   - working on breaking circular references between objects.
<barry> slangasek: there's no bug # and it doesn't break the build, but it's sure annoying
<jodh> * misc: Sick Monday.
<jodh> ð²
<jodh>  
<stokachu> jodh: does that mean you are done?
<stokachu> i cant tell what that is :P
<jodh> stokachu: sliding glissando :)
<stokachu> ahh
<stokachu> *** INPROGRESS http://pad.lv/578536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578536 in autofs5 (Ubuntu Natty) "when stopped, automount orphans some mounts" [Medium,Fix committed]
<stokachu>     DEADLINE: <2012-06-27 Thu> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-26 Tue>
<stokachu>     Backported 2 patches that address hanging automount and listing
<cjwatson> Or U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER as it came through here ...
<stokachu>     stale mount points in /proc/mounts during a re-read of map entries,
<stokachu> commits here http://is.gd/RpIFyQ, waiting OP testing results.
<stokachu> *** TODO http://pad.lv/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged]
<stokachu>     DEADLINE: <2012-07-06 Wed> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-26 Tue>
<stokachu> Blocked on http://pad.lv/977947 being completed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged]
<stokachu> *** http://pad.lv/977964 [50%]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged]
<stokachu> **** DONE SRU template
<stokachu> **** TODO needs debdiff for precise.
<stokachu>      DEADLINE: <2012-06-27 Wed> SCHEDULED: <2012-06-22 Fri>
<stokachu> ...
<stokachu> org-mode rules btw
<jodh> stokachu: +1000
<barry> stokachu: that is one of the tops on my list to investigate
 * xnox we can tell
<stokachu> xnox: lol :P
<jodh> stokachu: you tried the mobile versions too?
<xnox> stokachu: export to text buffer may format it slightly nicer with C-c a
<stokachu> jodh: not yet
 * xnox or was it C-c C-e a
<jodh> stokachu: the Android version can sync using U1!
<stokachu> xnox: ok ill try that next, still learning everything
<stokachu> jodh: love it!
<jodh> stokachu: oh yeah.
<stokachu> jodh: there are some functions i gotta write to not load inline images etc
<stokachu> i think that crashes on android
<jodh> stokachu: images? I just do text :)
<barry> jodh: is that MobileOrg perhaps? (iOS)
<xnox> emacs24 still needs chasing up, btw.
<stokachu> jodh: ditta is awesome
<stokachu> for charts etc
<slangasek> stokachu: so as far as blocking on 977947, I'm not aware that anyone else is working on this - do you intend to take this up to unblock yourself?
<jodh> barry: the iOS version isn't quite as feature-ful (doesn't work with U1 for example), but is slicker.
<stokachu> slangasek: yea im planing on working both libonobo bugs
<slangasek> stokachu: ok cool
<barry> jodh: free as in beer and speech! :)
<xnox> barry: originally iOS was the first one, but now android version overtook in feature
<stokachu> slangasek: ill have more next week once we do the point release meeting tomorrow
<slangasek> stokachu: I've included some general notes on the bug regarding Tom's patch; just ask if you have questions
<slangasek> ogra_: your turn
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * uploaded some merges
<ogra_> * got ac100 images building again
<ogra_> * switched the arm world to live images (omap omap4 and mx5)
<ogra_> * did set foundations-q-drop-preinst-images to implemented
<ogra_> todone:
<ogra_> * uploaded some merges
<ogra_> * got ac100 images building again
<ogra_> * switched the arm world to live images (omap omap4 and mx5)
<ogra_> * did set foundations-q-drop-preinst-images to implemented
 * barry installs
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * start on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * start taking a look at the QA stuff for arm in preparation of the QA sprint end of the month
<ogra_> do:
<slangasek> "todone"? :)
<ogra_> * start on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * start taking a look at the QA stuff for arm in preparation of the QA sprint end of the month
<jodh> xnox: there seem to be 2 android versions too :)
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> isgnore everything after do:
<ogra_> thats weird
<slangasek> ahh, double-paste one inside the other :)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> funnily i have the marked text in the terminal in front of me
<ogra_> without such an issue
<ogra_> and can paste properly
<bdmurray> wrote username and password scrubber for apt sources files in apt-clone
<bdmurray> investigation into duplicates of bug 541595
<bdmurray> modified bug pattern for bug 541595 to specify an apt version to reduce false duplicates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541595 in dpkg "[Master] package failed to install/upgrade: package is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541595
<bdmurray> removal of bug patterns for fixed bugs
<bdmurray> updated bug pattern checker to also check the properties of duplicates and see if a package version is specified
<bdmurray> work on arsenal to find bug tasks that have been reopened
<bdmurray> set up a regression tagged bug subscription and sent instructions to SRU team
<bdmurray> arsenal-cron mailing list request, setup and configuration
<bdmurray> â done â
<slangasek> ogra_: and I saw your bug report this morning about 'quiet splash' being missing from the armhf live image boot options; are you blocked on someone else to fix that?
<ogra_> slangasek, nope, minro fix in debian-cd
<ogra_> *minor
<slangasek> ok
 * jodh stands back to avoid bdmurrays sparks.
<ogra_> i'm just to busy with the images atm, i'll do it after A2
<ogra_> (the bug was just a todo item actually)
<stokachu> barry: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
<stokachu> barry: my favorite reference for org-mode
<slangasek> ogra_: ack
<barry> stokachu: thanks!  i know what i'm doing tonight :)
<infinity> barry: You wild man, you.
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> * sent cleaned up patch for libpeas to debian
<xnox> * SRU mdadm, e2fsprogs + writing test cases
<xnox> * upload autofs merge, and updates to mdadm, btrfs-tools (patches submitted to debian)
<xnox> * added testcase to dpkg bug 1015567 and added further TODO items
<xnox> * alpha 2 RAID testing (VM and bare metal)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015567 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "upgrade failed: mixed non-coinstallable and coinstallable package instances present" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015567
<xnox> * continuing work on ubiquity-lvm/luks
<xnox> Çnop
<infinity> xnox: s/n/u/
<slangasek> don't you mean Éuop?
 * xnox failed with upside-down unicode characters
<infinity> Çuop
 * infinity isn't sure which char slangasek is using for that bloated É
<barry> more discussion w/upstream about xapian py3; currently there are a couple of competing opinions :/ with no clear direction yet.  finished libpeas py3. lots of random py3 porting consultations with various folks.  bug 1013490; bug 1016170 (still debugging). sponsored python3-pam port. reviewed unattended-upgrade py3 port.  looked at command-not-found for py3, but needs mvo to upload.  worked on twisted py3 buildbot (waiting on at least
<barry> one more outgoing port hole).  prepped python-mode 6.0.9 for debian but will probably wait until 6.0.10 is released.  todo: more work on xapian py3.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013490 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "update-manager crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeQuirks.py: No module named plugincore.manager" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013490
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016170 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "No login screen unless "quiet splash" removed from boot line" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016170
<cjwatson> infinity: U+0259 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCHWA
<stokachu> Welcome to RenegadeBBS
<infinity> cjwatson: Except not small at all in the font I'm using.  xnox's was the right size.  Weird.
 * ogra_ always wondered why unicode does not have a <blink> 
<ogra_> tag
 * slangasek Ñesponds to xnox's failed upside-down unicode by scatteÑing inappÑopÑiate cyÑillic chaÑacteÑs thÑoughout
 * xnox likes
<ogra_> lol
<slangasek>  * Secure Boot
<slangasek>  * SRU team work - learning that regression-* tags are not being used well, so doing some turfing
<slangasek>   * and TB discussions about streamlining the MRE process for SRUs
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>  * getting a semblance of accuracy on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek>  * troubleshooting regression in 802.11n behavior in quantal kernel with my Intel wireless (bug #1015834)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015834 in linux (Ubuntu) "Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 wireless connection is unreliable after upgrading to quantal" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015834
 * mvo hugs barry for the xapian work, even if the upstream path is not quite clear yet
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<ogra_> pfft, upstreams ...
<barry> mvo: btw, if you have any opinions on str v bytes: http://trac.xapian.org/ticket/346
<cjwatson> UEFI:
<cjwatson>  * Secure boot planning and discussion.
<cjwatson>  * Further work on efilinux menu patch; v2 out for review.
<cjwatson>  * Pushed up Launchpad custom-uefi branch for review.  Various comments which I'm attempting to address.
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  * Remove change-override.py from Launchpad, now that there's an API replacement.
<cjwatson>  * Copy custom uploads when copying debian-installer/update-manager uploads between pockets.
<cjwatson>  * Discussed ddtp-tarball uploads with Michael.  These have now been rearranged so that we don't need a dodgy archiveuploader back door to make them work, and so that copies should be possible shortly.
<cjwatson>  * Finished code to unrestrict librarian files when using Archive.copyPackage to copy from private PPAs.  This is now confirmed to work for the security team, obsoleting unembargo-package.py.
<cjwatson> Miscellaneous:
<cjwatson>  * Various syncs and merges.
<cjwatson>  * Downgrade new debootstrap warning which always occurs on Ubuntu to info message (bug 1017398).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017398 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "Quantal Server and alternate automated installation failed with error "Failed to retrieve InRelease"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017398
<cjwatson>  * Fix missing hid-generic in initramfs (bug 1017991).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017991 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Keyboard stops working after completing 'Check disk'" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017991
<cjwatson> Â¶
<mvo> cjwatson: \o/ for ddtp copies
<ev> - Very short week. Holiday on Thursday and Friday. Conference on Tuesday.
<ev> - More work on the Daisy duplicates database backend for Apport.
<ev> - Finished up the recoverable errors API branch of apport, submitted a merge
<ev>   request. Martin echoed the earlier statements of Ted: DBus is heavyweight
<ev>   for this. I will be discussing alternatives with him in the MP:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/recoverable-errors/+merge/111840
<ev> - Work refactoring the error reports from application hangs branch after
<ev>   receiving feedback from Martin:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/reports-from-hangs/+merge/111179
<ev> - Started investigating options for the "ideal" line on the front of
<ev>   http://errors.ubuntu.com. This will show the average number of crashes for
<ev>   users who had the most recent version of the application that crashed
<ev>   installed (and its dependencies). Apport already has something like this
<ev>   built in, but it writes it as a translated string to the report file and
<ev>   only accounts for whether the version installed is the most recent version
<ev>   in the cache. Cassandra is not really built for tons of small random reads,
<ev>   so I may have to involve Redis or Memcached. I'm going to talk to Rob and
<ev>   James Troup about it once I've done a bit more research. Suggestions always
<ev>   welcome.
<ev> - Attended the Software Experts Summit in London. Notes forthcoming, but the
<ev>   big takeaway was write software to fail. There was an excellent talk by the
<ev>   security lead on Bing where he detailed just how fault tolerant their entire
<ev>   system is. Whole racks of computers can disappear and it will happily chug
<cjwatson> mvo: I'll probably land it after custom-uefi, though, as the branches are rather overlapping
<ev>   along (and indeed they effectively weld shut entire shipping crates of
<ev>   racks). He also stressed when working in a system where realtime feedback is
<ev>   possible to focus more on metrics and real usage of the system than unit
<ev>   tests. Unit tests are only an approximation of how the system might be used.
<ev>   They'll rarely catch the things you don't anticipate.  I'll try to better
<ev>   explain this and Microsoft's approach in my trip report.
<ev> (done)
<infinity> ev: "very short week" shouldn't fill my scrollback buffer.  Just sayin'.
<ogra_> oh, was a short week then
<stgraber> right, "very short week", that only used half of my screen vertical space ;)
<ev> hahahahaha, I love you all
<stokachu> LOL
<stgraber> Short week, Monday was a public holiday (Quebec day), next Monday is one too (Canada day).
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Some more work on python3-lxc, available for testing in ppa:stgraber/experimental
<stgraber>  - Helped testing the current SRU, preparing the next one
<stgraber>  - Pushed some more bugfixes and apparmor improvements to quantal.
<stgraber>  - Still need some more work on memory/error management in my C code...
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Minor UI fix in preparation for alpha-2. Landed on Friday.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Prepared a batch of network related updates: isc-dhcp, ifupdown, netbase, resolvconf
<stgraber>  - Went through the network related bug lists, closed a few dozen bugs so far, triaging the
<stgraber>    rest. Still have to go through 4-5 packages then will try to fix as many of these bugs
<stgraber>    before uploading the new packages to Quantal.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Alpha-2 related work (product changes on ISO tracker, Edubuntu, ...)
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Prepare tomorrow's SRU team meeting (go through bug lists)
<stgraber>  - Continue working on the network packages, hoping to have all of them uploaded on Thursday/Friday.
<stgraber>  - Some more LXC work, testing the new hooks that Serge added, rebasing the API branch on that.
<stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> I think I'm going to celebrate Oregon Day next week
<slangasek> just 'cause
<slangasek> maybe Portland Day while I'm at it
<stokachu> hah
<infinity> There's such a thing as Oregon Day?
<xnox> stgraber: there will be massive Canada Day celebrations in London at Trafalgar Square ;-)
<ogra_> onyl in portland
<cjwatson> stgraber: Which reminds me, I started trying to verify the ubiquity precise-proposed bug there, but had to make the livefses use -proposed first :-)  I'll have another go
<slangasek> infinity: well there's a Quebec Day, and I don't see what's so special about them
<barry> only on portlandia?
<slangasek> so I figure that means I get a day too ;)
<infinity> slangasek: Syrup.
 * xnox thinks to go there for some maple syrup 
<slangasek> vermont has syrup
<ogra_> but but... they speak french in an english speking country
<infinity> slangasek: Vermont also has a bunch of French Canadians.  Coincidence?
<infinity> And loggers.
<ev> xnox: I'm sooooo tempted to work the crowd introducing myself to all the "Americans"
<infinity> And flannel.
<infinity> Vermont is basically Quebec.
<slangasek> yes, entirely a coincidence
<infinity> â¸
<infinity> This week:
<infinity>  - A lot of PlusOneMaint-related fixing and transitioning and such
<infinity>  - Caught up on a bunch of TILM merges and sync
<infinity>  - Looking into britney2 for our proposed->release migration purposes
<infinity>  - Spent some over the weekend looking into armel/mono and armel toolchain issues
<infinity>  - Threw some help at Alpha2 ubuntustudio issues, and respins
<infinity> Next week:
<infinity>  - Should be working almost exclusively on making britney do useful things
<infinity> â½
<cjwatson> Yay
<infinity> "some over the weekend"... I English good.
<slangasek> infinity: it's legal in Vermont to have English-only road signs, so no, it's not Quebec ;)
<highvoltage> heh
<stgraber> slangasek: hehe, Quebec is pretty much a separate country, at least, quite a lot of people like to think it's ;)
<infinity> slangasek: Meh.  Flannel and syrup and duck-sounding accents.
<slangasek> stgraber: that's what I'm sayin', Portland should also have its own recognized holiday ;)
<infinity> slangasek: The rest is minor implementation details.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<stgraber> slangasek: ;)
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/872824
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872824 in network-manager-strongswan (Ubuntu Precise) "Network-manager locks up when adding strongSwan VPN connection" [Critical,Triaged]
<stgraber> oh, that's my bug isn't it? :)
<stokachu> stgraber: there is a patch (apparently not ideal workaround)
<stokachu> was curious if this is something we will still consider for 12.04.1 (could potentionally be a discussion for tom)
<stokachu> or even consider for 12.10
<stgraber> well, it's a universe package...
<cjwatson> Argh, why are the precise livefses still lacking -proposed
<stgraber> it's also not completely clear whether that patch alone would work or if you need to take my package of the latest upstream + that patch
<cjwatson> Oh God, I'm an idiot
<cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-live-build
<cjwatson> "[cjwatson] Add a way to enable proposed updates: TODO"
<cjwatson> I never did do that
<stgraber> hehe :)
<infinity> cjwatson: Didn't this come up the last time we discussed it, too?
<cjwatson> Possibly
<infinity> cjwatson: Like, in Oakland?
<stokachu> stgraber: do i need to actually setup vpn to reproduce or can i just attempt the client side through NM
<cjwatson> So I guess I'd better fix that forthwith
<infinity> cjwatson: I notice it every time I look at BuildLiveCD.  And then promptly do nothing about it.  You can totally blame me.
<slangasek> stgraber, stokachu: "it's a universe package" - meaning the fix isn't tied to the 12.04.1 image releases
<cjwatson> infinity: I always blame you
<stgraber> stokachu: last I tried, it'd explode before it'd start talking to the server
<slangasek> it certainly looks appropriate for an SRU anyway
<stokachu> slangasek: should i remove the 12.04.1 milestone
<stgraber> stokachu: I think -updates would be more appropriate
<slangasek> stokachu: I am not so interested in the accounting of the milestones - if you intend it to be worked on in that timeframe, .2 is fine for the milestone target
<stokachu> stgraber: ok ill run the tests myself and see targetted precise-updates milestone
<infinity> cjwatson: That's fair.
<slangasek> stokachu, stgraber: do you have what you need for that bug, then?
<stokachu> slangasek: yea i think so
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> other bugs?
<stgraber> stokachu: you probably should talk with cyphermox about that bug (if you haven't already) as he's the NetworkManager maintainer. I'm happy to help testing (as I have the server side)
<bdmurray> not from me
<stokachu> slangasek: im targetting these mainly for setting expectations to higher power :D
<stgraber> stokachu: but we have worse NetworkManager bugs to fix first (for packages that are actually in main ;))
<slangasek> stokachu: any more bugs on your side that need discussing?
<stokachu> slangasek: we're good
<slangasek> bug #1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<slangasek> so this cropped up over the weekend and had me worrying that we have some kind of regression in lucid->precise upgradability
<slangasek> because there were a pair of them reported within 24h of each other
<slangasek> but I haven't seen more, so now I just think instead that we have latent problems with lucid->precise upgradability :/
 * cyphermox likes reading Foundations team meeting logs
<slangasek> something seems to be going wrong with setup of packages with circular dependencies... I have no idea why
<stgraber> slangasek: the trace looks almost identical to bug 937196, I think I mentioned it on IRC the other day, can't remember if you saw that
<slangasek> anyone else have an idea what's going on here?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937196 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "10.04 LTS -> 12.04 upgrade failed: ifupdown depends on upstart and initscripts but they are not configured" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937196
<slangasek> stgraber: I saw the comment, yeah - I think there was something that left me unconvinced they were the same bug, let me see
<slangasek> yeah, it may be the same bug indeed
<slangasek> but is this an apt bug or a dpkg bug?
 * doko is leaving now
 * slangasek waves to doko
<stgraber> not sure, I vaguely rmeember the other bug being in "can't reproduce, needs mvo" state...
<slangasek> thanks
<infinity> dpkg: error processing dpkg (--configure):
<infinity>  package dpkg is already installed and configured
<infinity> ^--- Cute
<cjwatson> That's usually an apt bug
<slangasek> well, that part is secondary
<cjwatson> i.e. it's failed to correctly predict the state
<slangasek> the root error is dpkg failing to configure ifupdown because upstart and initscripts aren't configured yet, but I believe there's a legitimate circular dependency there?
<cjwatson> (But if this is lucid's apt â I haven't looked â then that was known to have some such bugs I think)
<slangasek> it's the release-upgrader apt
<cjwatson> hm
<infinity> slangasek: If friendly-recovery wasn't breaking upstart, we wouldn't be in this situation.
<slangasek> infinity: we also wouldn't be in the situation if the package manager wasn't buggy, and I think we get more bang for our buck if we fix that ;)
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, yeah. ;)
<xnox> i wonder if changing breaks -> conflicts would improve the situation.
<xnox> cause then the upstart stuff should be done before friendly recovery
<slangasek> because it's the same bug in 937196 and 1017001, but *not* the same set of packages
<slangasek> xnox: by definition, no
<xnox> ok
<slangasek> we really don't want to permute the package relationships to try to work around this - that's like chasing lumps in wallpaper
<slangasek> but for my part I'm not sure if this is even an apt bug or a dpkg bug
<slangasek> we may have to wait until we can safely keep apt-clone attachments in LP before we can make headway
<infinity> slangasek: Depends on how many dpkg runs there are here.
<slangasek> yeah, and I'm not sure we have enough info in the bug report to say that
<infinity> slangasek: Sure you do.  Count the "reading database" bits.
<slangasek> I wasn't aware that was a 1:1 mapping to dpkg calls?
<infinity> slangasek: Well, at one point in time, it used to be.  Perhaps not anymore.
<slangasek> anyway, even if we count the dpkg calls that doesn't tell us whether dpkg was asked to configure all the packages in one go
<slangasek> we only see the package it *failed* to configure
 * infinity nods.
<slangasek> mvo: ^^ if you're around and have any ideas about how we can debug this without an apt clone file, that would be welcome :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: what bug number?
<slangasek> in the meantime, doesn't sound like anybody else has any brilliant ideas for solving it
<cjwatson> It's a 1:1 mapping to ensure_allinstfiles_available calls, which I think winds up being more or less unpack and remove
<slangasek> bdmurray: bug #1017001 + bug #937196
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937196 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "10.04 LTS -> 12.04 upgrade failed: ifupdown depends on upstart and initscripts but they are not configured" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937196
<mvo> slangasek: uh, sorry, which bug was that?
<infinity> mvo: Look up.
<mvo> bug #937196 ?
 * infinity nods.
<slangasek> mvo: bug #1017001, bug #937196: lucid release-upgrader apt  + dpkg are somehow failing to configure packages when there's a dependency loop
<slangasek> but it's not *generally* reproducible
<mvo> hrm
<slangasek> when we get to the bottom of it, we should probably backport to precise apt as well so that this doesn't still hit us for p->t upgrades
 * infinity isn't sure 937196 relates specifically to loops at all, but rather just that a deconfigured/broken package didn't then get configured before its deps.  Do we know definitively that this is the result of a loop?
<slangasek> infinity: I know that there is a loop, and I don't see any other cases of apt doing out-of-order configuration
<infinity> slangasek: Oh!
<slangasek> initscripts Depends: upstart Provides: upstart-job Depends: initscripts, ifupdown Depends: upstart-job, initscripts
<infinity> slangasek: Right, upstart/initscripts.
<slangasek> so this one's a double circular dep
<slangasek> but the other bug is a single circular dep between libc6:i386 and libgcc1:i386
<infinity> slangasek: I bet that's actually completely deterministic, based on the "postinst versus no-postinst" loop-breaking rule.
<infinity> Unless initscripts has a postinst.
<slangasek> infinity: it's not failing to run the maintainer scripts, it's declaring that the dependencies aren't satisfied
 * infinity looks.
<slangasek> apt is supposed to be asking dpkg to configure them as a set
<slangasek> dpkg is supposed to sort out which one to configure first based on its own internal rules
<slangasek> and even if they all have postinsts, dpkg is supposed to play russian roulette
<infinity> Yeah, and they do.
<infinity> So nevermind deterministic.
<slangasek> and bear in mind that this is only reproducible for a relatively small percentage of users, and is *not* reproducible with any of the upgrade profiles being used in jenkins
<infinity> And apt may be asking dpkg to do them as a set, it's hard to tell from the log.
 * slangasek nods
<infinity> It clearly didn't unpack/deconfigure as a set, but...
<slangasek> ok, I think we should take this offline, we've squeezed as much out of it as we can in this meeting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> AOB?
 * mvo read them now
<infinity> We seem rather AOBless.
<ogra_> AOBlessed ?
<slangasek> yep, seems so
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 27 15:55:24 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-27-15.02.html
<slangasek> thanks all :)
<ogra_> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<stokachu> stgraber: do you mind accepting my nominations for bug #520386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520386
<stgraber> stokachu: done
<stokachu> stgraber: sweet thanks
<roaksoax>  /win 3
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-28
<seb128> hey
<arges> hey
<smoser> o/
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> o/
<stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 14:00:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<stgraber> NCommander, stokachu, jibel, jamespage: ping
<stgraber> xnox: around by any chance?
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<stgraber> arges to work on a 12.04.1 bug report, showing targeted bugs and information on status in development release, patches attached and branches linked
<xnox> stgraber: yeap
<arges> stgraber, i think the launchpad page is sufficient
<arges> stgraber, i wrote a script for our team to see which bugs we have targeted via arsenal
<stokachu> o/
 * xnox o/
<stgraber> arges: ok, I don't particularly like sorting/filtering bugs with Launchpad but it's true we don't have so many that it's not doable
<arges> stgraber, i guess my other issue was not figuring out what exactly was needed
<stgraber> arges: I was mostly interested in having a way of finding low hanging fruits, that's bug targeted to the point release, already fixed in the dev release or with patches/branches attached for dev+point-release
<xnox> and or fixed in a linked debian bug...
 * smoser mentions that jamespages is on holiday
<arges> stgraber, ah. this makes more sense.   so in launchpad we can see the icons right? but it doesn't show us all the information
<arges> just patch/branch
<arges> stgraber, if this is still valuable, i will work on this and make sure I ask questions before the next meeting. ok?
<stgraber> arges: right, it doesn't tell us whether it's fixed in the dev release (good indication that the patches are good)
<stgraber> arges: sounds good
<stgraber> xnox: linked Debian bug sounds good too
<stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
<xnox> stgraber: blocked/postpone, pending UTAH development subscribed to the mailing list
<stgraber> ok, will poke you again in a couple of weeks then ;)
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<stgraber> Not sure how relevant this topic actually is :)
<stgraber> As far as I know we don't have any deadlines beside 12.04.1 itself. If you're aware of any upstream point release that needs to get in 12.04.1 and hasn't been released yet, now is the time to speak!
<stgraber> moving on
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists
<stgraber> We're now up to 121 bugs targeted to 12.04.1.
<stgraber> A quick scan through the list shows almost 50% of them having a branch or a patch attached.
<stgraber> So please go through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926 for packages your team is responsible for and review/upload these fixes!
<stgraber> Out of these 121 bugs, 58 don't have an assignee. It'd be great if while reviewing the list, teams could assign these bugs to the team or to one of their team members.
<seb128> (good part of that list is fix commited as well)
<stgraber> right and that's pretty good to see :)
<skaet> :)
<stgraber> briefly went through pending-sru too, we don't seem to have a lot of old entries on there, so the verification work seems to be going quite well too
<stgraber> most of the oldest entries are universe or are packages that we can't easily test at the moment (ubiquity being one of them)
<stokachu> i got one that needs sponsorship
<stokachu> bug #977964
<seb128> stokachu, the libart-lgpl one?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977964
<xnox> i got two that need to be accepted
<stokachu> seb128: ah yea
<seb128> stokachu, I saw that earlier, I will sponsor it
<stokachu> seb128: thanks :D
<seb128> yw
<stokachu> these next ones are ones on my todo list to get complete by next week
<stokachu> bug #977952, bug #977947, bug #32860
<seb128> I wanted to ask about the multiarch bugs progress ... but not sure, is there a "questions" part of the meeting I should wait for?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 10905 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #32860 Keyboard shortcuts, window management - Can't use any global keyboard shortcuts or hotkeys when applet/menu is open" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10905
<seb128> stokachu, it's about time we land the multiarch stuff, those need some testing so it's getting late
<stgraber> there's a backlog of 30 packages in Unapproved at the moment, including xnox's packages. Hopefully that backlog will shrink post alpha-2 when people are a bit less busy releasing the alpha :)
<stokachu> the main scope of my multiarch bugs to get complete is heavily influenced by third party needs
<stokachu> but i am willing to work on others as well
<xnox> stgraber: I don't mind the backlog, as long as they get approved and not kicked out.
<seb128> I do mind the backlog, another issue I want to raise later ;-)
<xnox> stgraber: i did test cases / bug template for all of mine, but I hope it will not be kicked out on the grounds of 'too hard to review'
<seb128> the queue is stalling, 15 packages accept in a week is too low, it's impacting on our velocity...
<xnox> stgraber: 2 packages, 8 and 1 SRU bugs respectfully
<xnox> stgraber: 2 packages, 7 and 1 SRU bugs respectfully
<stgraber> well, if you did the documentation and the diff is readable, it should be fine :)
<stgraber> #topic Round table (status update from the various teams, what they're working on, where they need help, ...)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table (status update from the various teams, what they're working on, where they need help, ...)
<stgraber> will go in wiki order this time ;)
<stgraber> didn't see NCommander being around, so will go directly with seb128
<seb128> ok
<seb128> great ;-)
<seb128> so to be short
<seb128> - desktop SRUs are going well (mostly)
<seb128> - we got a round of compiz,libunity,bamf SRU this week (still in proposed)
<seb128> - we should have an unity SRU in the next 2 weeks and probably another one toward the end of july
<seb128> some issues,concerns:
<seb128> - the multiarch changes are getting late, I saw very little activity on them
<seb128> that's the sort of things we want to give some testing time to
<seb128> - the SRU team is still lagging behind
<seb128> we have a queue near 30 items, some stuff takes 2 week to get reviewed when they are trivial
<seb128> that's impacting on velocity and blocking us to follow up with next rounds of fixes
<seb128> ..
 * xnox has no clue who is next
<stgraber> me :)
<seb128> oh
<seb128> another issue raised:
<seb128> - users feedback points that the number of whoopsie dialogs displayed makes the product looks buggy over what it is (often those are triggered for harmless issues in services that get respawned for example)
<seb128> some people suggested we should consider turning off whoopsie with .1
<seb128> ..
<seb128> I'm done this time
<seb128> not sure if we do questions or just keeps going and discuss stuff at the end ;-)
<stgraber> skaet: I think you mentioned there was at least one SRU related meeting fairly recently, that's including re-staffing the SRU team right? (I seem to remember bdmurray and ScottK joining recently)
<skaet> stgraber, yes,  there's a rotation been decided on for the SRU team
<seb128> skaet, is the rotation schedule displayed somewhere?
<stgraber> we can take questions as we go, so people don't have to keep lists ;)
<seb128> so we can ping people on duty ;-)
<seb128> displayed->published
<skaet> seb128,  its in a google doc,  but I'll make up a page this afternoon after A2 is out
<seb128> skaet, thanks
 * skaet understands its needed.
<seb128> it's very frustrating to see so little movement on SRUs reviews :-(
<skaet> seb128,  doesn't quite solve the validation problem though.   So we need to figure that out.
<seb128> well stgraber stated earlier that we don't have a validation issue so far?
<seb128> ie by validation you mean verifying items in the queue
<stgraber> right, verification is going quite well, I usually spend half a day a week verifying stuff and looks like the other members have been doing that too
<skaet> we don't?
<seb128> I didn't see anything concerned backlog or things staying for too long
<skaet> ok.
<seb128> skaet, well at least from the desktop side everything get validated before the week delay so far
<skaet> seb128,  ok.   Will get that schedule of folks to ping posted.   See if that sorts it.
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<stgraber> skaet: most old entries are universe SRUs pre-testcase-era that I can't easily verify. I can't remember the reason for the others, but usually I try to verify > 6days old entries once a week at least
<seb128> stokachu, reading your comment earlier the multiarch changes are being worked now right?
<seb128> stokachu, i.e we should see progress on there in the next week?
<stokachu> seb128: correct
<stokachu> ive got sru's written for the ones i know about
<stokachu> just need to finish the rest
<seb128> ok
<skaet> thank stgraber,  maybe we should brainstorm with ScottK and see if he has some ideas on how to make progress on those.
<stgraber> skaet: I'm also wondering whether we should expire SRUs after a while, but that's a question for the SRU team really
<stgraber> anyway, moving on a bit, feel free to continue pasting questions ;)
<stgraber> stgraber:
<skaet> stgraber, ok,  I'll carry it forward to them.
<stgraber> I haven't been doing a whole lot of 12.04.1 stuff lately but did spend a day or so doing sru verification and I'm preparing a batch of network related SRUs
<stgraber> there isn't anything critical in there but these are fixes I'm going to push to quantal so might as well SRU
<stgraber> bug 1004775 is probably one for seb128 as it's technically a desktop package, but I'm affected and happy to help test any fix for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq on every IPv6 route advertisement, thus very frequently" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775
<xnox> for me the mdadm & e2fsprogs SRUs should get a much validation as possible & as long in -proposed as possible
<xnox> as they are complex packages
<xnox> and the deadline for 12.04.1 is fast approaching
<seb128> stgraber, I will see if cyphermox can have a look
<stokachu> roughly a month right?
<stgraber> it's affecting everyone with an IPv6 network using NetworkManager in Automatic mode (default). It's not preventing people from working but it's spamming the syslog, seems to be spamming the routing table too and causes some DNS queries to fail
<cyphermox> I'm working on it already
<cyphermox> the routing table, I'm not sure it will change anything there.
<ScottK> FWIW, the KDE version for 12.04.1 is in proposed for testing now.
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<stgraber> cyphermox: cool, thanks. The dnsmasq is really the annoying one, the routing table caching is weird but doesn't seem harmful
<cyphermox> stgraber: right.
<stgraber> ScottK: good to hear, no problem so far with verification?
<ScottK> Not so far.  I'm running it here.
<stgraber> cool
<stgraber> stokachu:
<stokachu> multiarch is the name of the game, continueing to get those bugs completed and sponsored
<stokachu> ...
<stgraber> arges:
<arges> worked on 12.04.1 bugs, worked on milestone scripts for our team
<arges> ..
<stgraber> jibel:
<jibel> automated testing reported broken oem installation
<jibel> that usually occurs when the version of ubiquity on the CD and in the squashfs are different
<jibel> will file a bug report
<jibel> post-upgrade tests fail the obosolete config file check for everything bug oenric server while they usually pass
<stgraber> oh, right, I have an AOB on that but might as well mention it now :)
<jibel> I'll investigate next week this it started after we upgraded the auto-upgrader to python3
<jibel> ..
<jibel> s/bug oenric/but oneiric/
<stgraber> cjwatson has been working on enabling -proposed for all precise dailies
<stgraber> that's done for alternates but not working for live images
<cjwatson> Yeah, sorry about that, it came down to something I thought about a year ago and then forgot
<stgraber> which explain the out-of-sync issue you mentioned earlier
<cjwatson> jibel: Indeed, there's no need for a bug report for the broken OEM installation in this case
<jibel> cjwatson, ok, noted
<cjwatson> If it persists next week I'd like to know
<stgraber> jibel: I can't think of a reason why the python3 port would have broken th conffile check but let me know if you need some help there
<stgraber> skaet:
<jibel> stgraber, me neither but I don't like coincidences
<skaet> working through bugs and milestoning some that should be considered for 12.04.1
<skaet> from some of the ones that have come up from quantal mostly.
<skaet> discussions about 12.04.2 schedules have started up.
<skaet> but mostly working on quantal at the moment...
<skaet> ;)
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> smoser:
<smoser> - I'm not as current on our progress here as I need to be.  we clearly have a lot more bugs on the lists than other teams do.  I'll spend some time catching up
<smoser>  with the teams and making sure we're getting some things done.
<smoser>  - we did get a nova update into -proposed this week
<smoser> i'm somewhat concerned that our list is so long.
<smoser> but thats all. i'll poke around later today and we'll have more info next time.
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> anything else people would like to mention/ask?
<stgraber> doesn't look like it :)
<skaet> :)
<stgraber> well, thanks everyone, talk to you in two weeks then!
<stokachu> thanks!
<jibel> thanks stgraber
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 28 14:54:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-28-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-28-14.00.html
<skaet> thanks stgraber
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> stgraber, skaet: nobody was interested to discuss the whoopsie on or off for .1 I guess then?
<stgraber> seb128: oops, forgot about that one... did you discuss that with ev/pitti already? they're the most likely to have a strong opinion on that.
<smoser> h.m.
<smoser> stgraber, i have a bit of a feeling on it.
<smoser> well..i'll look a bit beforr i comment and crate a more informed opinion.
<smoser> the concern i have is just memory use in smaller server install (or vm)
<Daviey> smoser: Well, the initial results from server have been null.
<Daviey> smoser: As in, i don't think anyone has yet reported from an X-less box.. So it really is just a resource waste, until there is better exposure
<seb128> stgraber, ev has a strong opinion on "we should fix the issues rather than turn it off"
<seb128> in practice it's showing up badly on precise and we don't make enough progress with the resources we have to get in a good position soon on that front
<seb128> so I think we should consider turning it of for .1
<dholbach> ok, who's here for the MOTU meeting?
 * coolbhavi waves
<dholbach> coolbhavi, it looks like it's only the two of us
<dholbach> nobody sent a reminder to the list I guess
<dholbach> maybe we should just meet in 2 weeks instead with proper reminder beforehand?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes right after meeting along with the minutes will help I think
<dholbach> it'd be great if somebody (other than me) could do this :)
<dholbach> I was just too busy to take care of this time
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I can from next time if nobody beats me to it :)
<dholbach> ok cool :)
<dholbach> I don't have any updates for the meeting, but I just removed the "meeting times" bit from the agenda for next time
<dholbach> it seems like there was little interest in moving it
<coolbhavi> hmm I thought of freezing on motu school timings feedback so that we could have kick started motu school asap
 * tumbleweed waves, but has to run
<dholbach> ok, well then maybe we better clear out of the room and I'll just go update the agenda page with the proper date for next time
<dholbach> coolbhavi, sounds good
<coolbhavi> sure
<coolbhavi> hey tumbleweed
<dholbach> excellent - that was a very quick meeting then :)
<coolbhavi> :)
<coolbhavi> dholbach, anyways ll mail the list about proposed dates and times of MOTU school tomorrow and take discussion on list
<dholbach> perfect, thanks a lot coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> no mention dholbach
<vibhav> .window 9
<jono> alrighty folks
<jono> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 18:00:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jono> hey folks, and welcome to the very first Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting :-)
<jono> who is here for the meeting?
<notgary> I am o/
 * cielak is here
<highvoltage> "You've unlocked an accomplishment! Attending your first Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting!"
<jono> highvoltage, LOL!
<jono> well thanks folks for joining us
<jono> there is not really a fixed agenda here, but I have a few topics I want to cover:
<philipballew> 0/
<jono>  * getting more accomplishments written
<jono>  * getting more translation involvement
<jono>  * testing
<jono> does anyone else have any topics?
<jono> ok then :-)
<jono> maybe we can cover translations first
<jono> so we have four projects -daemon -viewer -community-accomplishments and -desktop-accomplishments
<jono> and then also the web gallery
<cielak> I remember it was suggested that we bound some official translation groups to our project
<jono> right now our translation coverage in the desktop app and daemon is pretty good
<jono> but the accomplishments themselves is limited
<jono> cielak, indeed
<cielak> especially desktop ones, I wonder if they are available in more than 2 langs
<hallino1> Me :)
<jono> any thoughts on how we get more translators involved?
<jono> it would be great if we had a translations leader who can help grow this community
<jono> cielak, yeah
<jono> is anyone interested in helping out with this?
<cielak> I wonder whether we can't simply ask one of these translator organisations that translate everything in LP
<cielak> like the Launchpad Translators
<jono> cielak, like the Ubuntu translations groups?
<jono> so maybe the next step is reaching out there
<jono> I know some translators express concern about open permissions too
<jono> so we might need to resolve that
<cielak> we've had recently a case of translation mistake of griefing that coused a critical bug in viewer
<jono> right
<jono> ok, I will reach out to the translations groups to see if they can help us
<jono> if anyone is passionate about this, do let us know
<jono> we could definitely use some help here :-)
 * gepatino is here
<jono> hey gepatino, just the person
<jono> gepatino, do you think it would be viable to provide a link in the web viewer so people can be linked to where they can translate opportunities?
<jono> this might be a good way of getting more folks involved
<notgary> How about writing some translation accomplishments -"You have make your first translation", "You have made 10 translations", "You have made 20 translations", etc. I have actually been thinking it would be cool to track Launchpad activity for acheivements, such as "You have merge X patches into Ubuntu". Perhaps this could be done for translations
<jono> notgary, we would love to have that, but translations doesn't have an API in LP afaik
<cielak> notgary: the problem with translations is that Launchpad API does not expose access to them
<gepatino> jono, adding a link shouldn't be an issue
<gepatino> should we check some rules? redirect so some specific language, etc?
<jono> gepatino, cool - we would need to figure out how to generate a link to the correct strings, but we can look into that
<cielak> notgary: and the problem with number-based accomplishments is that they often encourage pointless traffic
<jono> gepatino, I am not sure of the details
<jono> ok, so lets move on
<jono> next I wanted to discuss testing
<jono> cielak and I have been discussing this recently
<gepatino> i was catching up... I meant it would be a problem to add link, thinking in linking to launchpad translations
<jono> our codebase is growing, and so are our users, and thus the potential for bugs could increase
<gepatino> then I've read about the translation groups not being open...
<jono> gepatino, cool
<jono> gepatino, well, open in terms of whether contributions are reviewed
<jono> I think we should get advice from our translation community about how the translations are best governed
<gepatino> ok
 * cielak agrees
<jono> so in terms of testing
<jono> I would like to build unit test suites for all of our projects
<jono> I know the web team are already working on this
<jono> and I am planning on putting in place unit tests for the daemon
<jono> I suspect the viewer is important but less critical than the daemon
<jono> if the daemon gets it wrong, all viewers are screwed :-)
<jono> hey janosTheHun
<janosTheHun> hey jono !
<cielak> viewer is just a bunch of GTK+ hacks, the real code is in the daemon ;)
<jono> cielak, indeed :-)
<jono> the other part of the testing which I wanted to discuss was how we test the server
<jono> again, cielak and I discussed this a little earlier
 * janosTheHun here now, but won't be long
<jono> so while we have seen good traffic on the validation server, which suggests things are generally working well, there are sometimes issues, and these could be either U1 syncing delays or bugs in the server
<cielak> janosTheHun: semi-final? :)
<janosTheHun> cielak: yup :)
<cielak> or generaly any case causing trouble with the validation process
<cielak> there can be many more factors
<jono> in terms of the U1 lag, I have a solution which I think could work - I will set up a U1 user who will generate some files and put the timestamp inside the file - when the file is synced we can compare the timestamps of the server to the file and get an idea of lag
<jono> I think having visibility on U1 lag will help us in tracking down some issues
<jono> I would also like the server testing to dynamically create and register shares and check on the success of that too
<cielak> such file would be sent like each 10 minutes, or daily?
<jono> cielak, I am thinking every 10 mins or so
<jono> and then plot this into a a graph
<jono> so we can compare when a bug occurs to the lag time
<cielak> right
<jono> bug X happened on 5th June, and oh look...U1 was lagging :-)
<jono> in terms of ensuring the server is actually validating trophies correctly, I think the first step is probably unit tests
<cielak> well, most our problems with validation server is not just lag, but no signature at all, yet that's a good idea nevertheless
<jono> one challenge we have now is that if a user types in the wrong identification it will constantly fail
<jono> cielak, right
<jono> so a trophy not getting signed means either:
<jono>  (1) the user is screwing around with .trophy files
<jono>  (2) there is a bug in the code that uploads a trophy
<cielak> 1) is unlike, if someone intentionally messes things up, they won't report a bug
<jono> (3) the user entered extra-information that generated the .trophy and then changed it after it was synced, s when the server validates it the extra-info doesnt work
<jono> yeah I think few people, if any are faking trophies
<gepatino> (4) there is a bug in the code that validates the trophy
<cielak> 3) is not valid, daemon will regenerate the trophy with new extrainfo, if it wasn't yet signed
<jono> gepatino, oops, yes
<philipballew> faking does not give you that good feeling that earning it does.
<jono> cielak, right, but imagine this: the user adds e-a, it gets approved and generates a .trophy, that gets uploaded, they then change their e-i and U1 doesnt sync it yet
<gepatino> so, the real programming bugs seems to be (2) and (4), am I right?
<jono> philipballew, indeed
<jono> gepatino, yup
<cielak> jono: this happens just once, the next time the .trophy is sent it will be correct, and the server will sign it then
<cielak> or will it not?
<jono> cielak, agreed, I just mean that it is not inconceivable that there could be a mismatch
<cielak> if I modify my .trophy and send a new version, will the server re-sign it?
<jono> I do think we have some bugs in there somewhere
<jono> cielak, if you already have the .asc, the server wont resign
<jono> if you don't have the .asc it will try to sign
<cielak> each time I upload a new version?
<cielak> or just then the file is created?
<jono> cielak, each time the file is updated
<cielak> okay, that's correct then
<jono> if you modify a file in U1 that is in a subscribed folder, it gets synced
<cielak> so 3) is not really a problematic case
<jono> cielak, right, I think the mismatch scenario is pretty rare anyway
<cielak> indeed
<jono> it will result in a logged failure on the server, but then just resolve itself
<cielak> we better seek for bugs in the code :)
<jono> what we need to identify is what is the source of the failures
<jono> cielak, totally agree
<jono> cielak, we just need to do more testing and find failures
<janosTheHun> i recommend writing unit tests around this issue, and try to cover all the corner cases you can think of
<jono> right now I think there is a lot we can do to get better visibility on failures
<jono> janosTheHun, agreed
<jono> janosTheHun, I was saying before you joined that I would like us to have unit tests for all of our projects
<jono> and before we land code we can run the test suites
<janosTheHun> jono: yup, good idea
<cielak> we might also think to include some easy access to debug data
<cielak> the daemon log file is working great
<jono> cielak, what kind of debug data
<cielak> for bug reports it's really useful
<cielak> but there are other things we ask all users that report a bug
<jono> cielak, I agree we might want to build some better debug tools into our software
<cielak> like the share data, whether it got accepted, what files are in trophies directory
<jono> one thing that could be useful for example is an easy way to see if a share is active
<jono> yeah
<jono> cielak, maybe we could add this to battery?
<jono> add a switch to summarize system info
<jono> accomplishments-battery -i for example
<cielak> you have recently implemented support for getting our share data from the u1syncdaemon, what if we simply printed the result to the daemon log?
<jono> and it displays the share status and other reporting
<cielak> I'd integrate it with either daemon or viewer, so that when one reports a bug, we do not need to ask him to install the battery
<jono> cielak, we could do that
<jono> makes sense
<jono> I am happy to take a look into that
<jono> should be a simple addition :-)
<cielak> actually, there is some bug in determining share ID, found it recently
<jono> cielak, oh?
<cielak> will need to take a closer look, but it makes me unable to publish my trophies :) (the shareid in URL does not match my actual shareid)
<jono> cielak, I think I know this bug
<jono> this might be because you have two active shares
<cielak> nope, just one
<jono> really?
<jono> odd
<cielak> yeah, will report it & investigate
<jono> cool
<jono> speaking of which....
<jono> I have another suggestion
<jono> I would like to suggest we have two log files
<jono> daemon.log
<jono> and scriptrunner.log
<jono> the daemon is getting spammed with all the checks for accomplishments
<cielak> aaah, that's wise
<jono> which makes it difficult to read
<janosTheHun> is there a wiki page about running the unit tests in the daemon project?
<jono> janosTheHun, not yet, they don't exist
<jono> janosTheHun, we have an original set of tests that hasnt been touched since January
<jono> I need to go in and update them
<jono> when I get a few working we can work together to build out full coverage
<jono> cielak, would you be happy to split the daemon log into the two files?
<jono> we may even want to have a log file standard info such as the share, share id, if it is active, trophydir etc
<jono> so these daemon logs:
<jono>  * daemon.log - general run time daemon info
<jono>  * scriptrunner.log - log of when accomplishments are checked
<jono>  * environment.log - a list of settings in the environment (e.g. share id, name, trophy dir, collections installed etc)
<cielak> well, daemon.log will contain very little information, we might merge environment.log into it
<jono> cielak, right, I was just thinking you would need to hunt it our in daemon.log
<jono> whereas environment.log can just summarize
<jono> I am happy with whatever you prefer though
<cielak> maybe I'll try both, and compare which one makes more sense
<cielak> we can have several instances of some 'logging' object, that would write to a single file
<jono> cielak, awesome :-)
<jono> indeed
<jono> this will give us good visibility when people have issues
<jono> cielak, we may want to consider this as a push into 2.1
<jono> depending on how invasive it is
<cielak> by the way: we have not created separate series for 0.2
<cielak> thus we cannot separate 0.3 additions from 0.2.1 ones
<jono> cielak, oops
<jono> I will do that
<jono> I will create the series, but we should probably only push critical fixes to 0.2.x
<jono> so lets maybe do this in 0.3
<jono> I will create the series today anyway
<cielak> yeah, will be more time to test all that
<janosTheHun> ok i guys i have to go, will try to do something for the daemon and then ping you
<jono> cool
<jono> laters janosTheHun! :-)
<jono> thanks!
<cielak> thanks janosTheHun, see you!
<jono> so anything more to discuss on testing?
 * cielak just pushed a tiny fix that significantly cleans up demon's log ;-)
<jono> cielak, wow, you are fast, buddy :-)
<jono> ok, so the final topic I wanted to discuss was growing our community of accomplishments writers
<jono> I am a little behind on this
<jono> I am planning on putting together documentation and a video for how to get people involved
<cielak> it may be worth reminding that we have lots of forum accomplishments waiting
<jono> but so far I have been focused on a few other things such as the branches
<jono> cielak, oh we should look into that
<cielak> and s-fox will be surely interested in developing them, but Canonical did not reply for some longer time
<jono> yeah Canonical IS has not responded yet since his last email
<jono> I will see if I can ping them to respond
<jono> I also need to update the docs as battery now checks for missing fields in .accomplishment files
<cielak> might be worth it, I can't imagine 0.3 release without forum accoms!
<jono> indeed :-)
<cielak> there is one more problem with the docs
<jono> oh?
<cielak> someone had problems with following the guide recently
<cielak> the problem is with the order of chapters
<cielak> I guess battery information is too soon
<cielak> it assumes one has already installed the collection, that is working on a bazaar branch etc
<jono> ahhh
<cielak> so basically it requires knowledge from upcoming chapters
<jono> we should ask people to file bugs in ubuntu-accomplishments for docs related issues
<jono> cielak, could you ask that person to file a bug?
 * cielak wanted to re-read the whole guide to determine causes, but hadn't yet time
<jono> good idea
<cielak> jono: sure, will try to
<jono> and as we get more contributors involved it will help us spot other issues
<jono> ok cool
<jono> well I have covered everything I wanted to discuss today
<jono> anything else?
<cielak> wasn't it philipballew?
<cielak> philipballew: are you still with us? ;-)
<philipballew> yes!
<cielak> awesome! would you mind reporting a bug in ubuntu-accomplishments concerning the troubles you had with following the guide on creating accomplishments?
<philipballew> Yes. I will.
<cielak> great thanks!
<jono> ok, I guess we can wrap
<cielak> maybe someone lurking has any questions concerning accomplishments?
<jono> thanks folks for joining our first meeting!
<jono> yeah, any questions?
<jono> and remember that we live in #ubuntu-accomplishments
<gepatino> is there any roadmap for web gallery to 0.3?
<gepatino> or so far only the specs in the wiki?
<philipballew> I am considering a simple video tutorial on making some for people who are not good at reading and understanding as they would be in they could see.
<jono> gepatino, just the wiki right now
<jono> but part of it is the Mobile spec
<jono> did you see that gepatino?
<jono> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Specs/Mobile
<jono> this is basically a stylesheet for the web gallery
<jono> philipballew, that would be great
<jono> my main advice is ensure that you have written a few accomplishments first before you do a tutorial
<jono> someone else did a tutorial and they had not written an accomplishment and it wasnt so good
<gepatino> i've read that, jono, thanks
<jono> gepatino, cool
<cielak> and of course such new accomplishments are very welcome! :)
<gepatino> and finally, is there any release date for the web gallery? we are progressing but there are a lot of things to fix, like page layouts, check url schemas, etc
<jono> gepatino, release date for 0.3 is Sep 5th
<jono> so if we could shoot for then, that would be grea
 * cielak has to remember it, hehe
<jono> it would be cool to have it in place earlier so we can get some further testing
<gepatino> sure, it would be nice to have one or two weeks before
<cielak> hopefully we'll get trophies.ubuntu.com :)
<jono> indeed :-)
<jono> alright, lets wrap
<jono> thanks, folks!
<jono> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 28 18:55:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-28-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-28-18.00.html
<cielak> thanks everyone, thanks jono!
<jono> :-)
<gepatino> see you guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-29
 * skaet waves
<mdeslaur> hi!
<skaet> hiya mdeslaur :)
<ScottK> \0
<brendand> hi!
<arosales> hello
<skaet> :)
<skaet> looks like quorum has emerged.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun 29 15:00:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-06-29
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 2012/07/05 - DebianImportFreeze
<skaet> 2012/07/23 - Alpha 3 image candidates start
<skaet> 2012/07/26 - Alpha 3
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/06/29 -  2782 (was 2926 last week):  BEHIND trendline for this point.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> 12.04.1:http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> A2 Testing Report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/QuantalAlpha2TestReport
<skaet> Thank you to all the testers, and jibel for coordinating, and another excellent job in highlighting the key issues in a timely fashion.  :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Pending action items:
<skaet> [skaet] - SRU team vanguards: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/#Publishing - DONE
<skaet> [seb128] - summarize on ubuntu-release mail list what desktop wants for 12.04.1 (201206 15:15:33:13) - ?
<skaet> [skaet] - start off a blueprint for -r release for people to record ideas and thoughts on logical steps for making progress to the long term goal. (skaet, 20120622 16:25:27) - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-future-release-brainstorming - DONE
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001462.html -hw cert: brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001465.html- security: mdeslaurs
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001467.html - desktop: seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001468.html - kernel: ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001469.html - community testing: balloons
<skaet> ** 2100 UTC - due time ^ Thank you to those who submitted on time **
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001471.html - lubuntu: gilir
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001472.html - server: arosales
<skaet> ** Reminder,  please get your team's summary in by 2100 UTC, so there's time to prep, take care of issues on the mail list, and keep the meeting short.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments.
<skaet> hiya,  any other team minutes available that I missed in my last pass?
<seb128> hey
<skaet> Reminder: DebianImportFreeze is next Thursday 7/5,  after that all imports will need to be explicit.
<skaet> Thank you to stgraber and balloons for the updates to the iso tracker,  new features rolled out nice and smooth for A2 from my perspective.  :)
<seb128> sorry I assumed we had no meeting after alpha2 (as we didn't have one after a1 IIRC) ... anyway I'm here ;-)
<ScottK> Debian's freeze for Wheezy release is tomorrow, so the amount of new stuff from Debian should start to drop off in any case.
<skaet> thanks seb128,  with holidays coming up,  and A2 being so smooth (overall),  seemed prudent to have one before DebianImportFreeze
<seb128> yeah, makes sense ;-)
<skaet> General request:  Leads please work through your alpha 2 work items, and for those items not accomplished,  please retarget or postpone.   Burn downs are showing us fallling behind where we wanted to be.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyone else have comments/questions before I start into my list?
<ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001473.html - foundations: ogra
<ogra_> (sorry !)
<skaet> thanks ogra_ :)
<skaet> seb128,  any update on the pending action item to post what desktop looks to land for 12.04.1?   (did I miss it on the ubuntu-release list?)
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> skaet, I mentioned it last week in reply to my weekly report email
<seb128> "I also had an action item to check what images the desktop team wants to support for the LTS .1 release: we will keep doing what we did for previous LTSes, and support the same set of images that for the release, including the DVD ones. "
<seb128> skaet, ^
<skaet> thanks seb128.  I'll mark it done then.  :)
<seb128> thanks
<skaet> ..
<skaet> brendand, do you have a prioritized list (ie. most to least important) of the bugs cert wants fixed for 12.04.1?   is bug 1013843 the key blocker?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013843 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "resolv.conf empty when doing PXE installations" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013843
<brendand> skaet, as far as i know that's only in quantal
<skaet> brendand,  ok.  :)
<brendand> skaet, as for prioritization, i will need to discuss with ara. when would you like a list by - and how many bugs? 5? 10?
<brendand> skaet, or all of them, just prioritized?
<skaet> brendand,  top 5 most impact to fix would be good,  or a list in descending order of inpact,  so we can get some focus.
<skaet> possible to mail something out to ubuntu-release mail list by next week?
<brendand> skaet, asap
<highvoltage> ~/win 12
<skaet> :) ok,  will add it to the actions.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> mdeslaurs,  for those AA uploads, is there someone identified, or just waiting in queue?
<brendand> skaet, about the 1013843 bug, i wanted to ask stgraber if he is blocked trying to reproduce it?
<stgraber> brendand: I'm not, just busy with other things
<brendand> stgraber, ok. whatever resources you need to try and reproduce it, the guys in montreal can provide
<skaet> ..?
<stgraber> brendand: I have a netboot setup at home so should be easy to reproduce locally (though the fixes I pushed in quantal were specifically to make it work ;))
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> mdeslaur, ^  (sorry about the typo on your nick)
<seb128> skaet, tab completion is handy ;-)
<skaet> yup.
<mdeslaur> skaet: jdstrand is identified, or he may sponsor sbeattie
<skaet> coolio,  just wanted to make sure wasn't going to linger over holidays/debconf/etc.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> seb128, does it make sense to ask balloons to get the new gtk's ally enablement tested by the community?  Would be nice to get early feedback, and a chance to fix before we get to beta.
 * skaet notes that balloons will need to be followed up by with email. 
<seb128> skaet, that would be great
<seb128> skaet, balloons: check with TheMuso if you need details on what needs testing
<seb128> skaet, balloons: a slightly more detailed email on the topic is on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2012-June/003868.html
<skaet> seb128,  ok,  I'll put in a request and copy you and TheMuso on it.
<seb128> thanks
<skaet> ..
<skaet> seb128,  popey,  when will the next unity, compiz drops land?
<seb128> unity for quantal is being worked
<seb128> next week if everything goes well
<seb128> new compiz landed this week
<popey> oh hai, didnt realise there was a meeting right now
<popey> what seb128 says :)
<seb128> we should have another compiz within 2 weeks with gsettings support (finger crossed)
<popey> quantal + nux should be testing monday, release tuesday
<seb128> gsettings code is being worked, sam estimates to a good week of work so I count on 2 weeks for landing if that goes well
<popey> thanks seb128
<ogra_> we're still waiting for upstream to merge the gles patches for arm
<ogra_> (compiz that is)
<seb128> ogra_, that will be after gsettings, don't count before a month
<seb128> ..
<ogra_> current compiz is built with gles support, which will not work on arm
<seb128> ogra_, right, well they have 2 compiz maintainers and work for 5, there is only so much they can get done at the time
<ogra_> (that doesnt matter much though since we have no working drivers for any arm platform yet, waiting for TI as usual)
<seb128> gsettings is first then they will do gles
<seb128> ..
<skaet> thanks seb128, popey, ogra_ .  ok, that helps with setting the expectations.
<ogra_> seb128, i didnt mean to blame anyone or so :) just wanted to throw it in the meeting so people are aware and dont complain that their pandas dont show bling ;)
<seb128> ogra_, my panda doesn't show screen atm, let's talk after bling later :p
<ogra_> seb128, if there would have been dailies today, these would have a fix for that ;)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_, yeah glad you brought it up,  sounds like its going to get close to feature freeze then before its all working,  which is a bit worrying.
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> skaet, well, as i understand it, upstream expects that *all* plugins are ported to GLES before accepting the patch
<ogra_> linaros patch only ports the ones we use in ubuntu
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_, yeah that could indeed make things *interesting* :P
<ogra_> right
<seb128> that's being sorted, they will not block on that
<seb128> still there is a bit of work needed
<ogra_> not much we can do about it though
<seb128> and they go asked to finish gsettings first since blocks desktop updates
<seb128> i.e part of GNOME is blocked on it
<seb128> and that work is overdue (it was meant to land in oneiric)
<ogra_> well, as long as there is a chance it makes FF
<seb128> that should be fine
<ogra_> if not, it would be good to know about that early enough so we can think of alternatives
<seb128> as said it should be one extra week or max 2 to clear the gsettings stuff and the important bug fixes they are on
<ogra_> ok, that sounds fine
<seb128> then it's gles, which hopefully with take 1 or 2 weeks
<seb128> I will keep you guys updated
<seb128> ..
<skaet> ogra_,   on the subject of worrying,  who has the lead for java on arm?   is there a good pointer to the plan for that part?  (me may have missed it in her last pass)
<ogra_> thx
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> skaet, hmm, usually thats doko, not sure, probably infinity is on it too nowadays
<ogra_> i can collect info on that for next week
<skaet> ogra_, that would be appreciated.  :)  Thanks!
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around to see if anyone else has questions?
<skaet> looks like that's it then for this week.
<skaet> Next week I'll be on vacation,  and pgraner will be hosting the meeting.
<skaet> Thanks ogra_, arosales, mdeslaur,  seb128, brendand, popey, stgraber, ScottK
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jun 29 15:34:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-29-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-29-15.00.html
<stgraber> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<seb128> skaet, thanks, enjoy your vacs!
<arosales> thanks skaet for chairing :-)
<ajmitch> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun 29 21:04:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is ajmitch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ajmitch> OK, arb agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
 * stgraber waves
 * highvoltage splashes
<ajmitch> was looking over http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-25-21.09.log.html from the last meeting, there weren't any actions added aside from the UDS items
 * wendar waves
<ajmitch> yay, people :)
<highvoltage> I'm really tired so sorry for my lack of enthusiasm :)
<ajmitch> do we want to quickly go over the developer portal bugs, or just be happy that they're there & being looked at? :)
 * ajmitch mostly wants to get people voting on submissions, fwiw :)
<highvoltage> Ok, I'll catch up with the votes tomorrow. And also all the nice things dolbach has been talking about.
<ajmitch> yeah, I've been talking with dholbach a bit & following what he's been doing with the apps branch & arb-lint
<highvoltage> and also try to get some sense of how many competition apps there are and what I can do about it
<ajmitch> apparantly there are 30+ for the competition
<ajmitch> I expect some won't be packaged for /opt/extras.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> this sort of covers some of the UDS workitems, with the competition & the tools for reviewing
<ajmitch> one thing that came up this week was whether ~ubuntu-dev should be added to the ~ubuntu-app-review-contributors team
<ajmitch> thoughts?
<highvoltage> sounds like it makes sense
<highvoltage> the more the arb process is integrated in the rest of ubuntu, the better
<highvoltage> (imho)
<ajmitch> it'd allow any ubuntu developer to commit to the branches dholbach is importing, and let them comment & change state of apps on myapps
<ajmitch> which I think is fine
<ajmitch> assuming you find the branches useful
<wendar> well, remember that ubuntu-app-review-contributors gets special access in MyApps
<wendar> do we want to grant that to all ubuntu-devs?
<ajmitch> right, that's what I'm asking
<wendar> it seems like some kind of verification step makes sense
<ajmitch> since changing the myapps state doesn't affect a whole lot unless they're rejected
<highvoltage> I guess in that case they might as well just join #ubuntu-arb and ask to be added
<highvoltage> (or mail or whatever)
<wendar> I thought review contributors could do more than just change state?
<highvoltage> what's the concern? that someone might do something malicious?
<wendar> more concerned about accidental disruptive changes, from people who don't know the interface yet
<wendar> it's still a little buggy
<wendar> but, if they really only have access to comment and non-destructive state changes, then I have no concern
<wendar> it is worth asking ubuntu-dev if they *want* to be added though
<wendar> aren't there default notifications sent out to review contributors?
<wendar> or, is that only direct to the arb mailing list, and not individual notifications?
<ajmitch> that's what dholbach was checking, he said he hadn't received any
<wendar> is that because they're going to ubuntu-app-review-board members? or to the mailing list?
<ajmitch> to the mailing list
<wendar> ok, limited access and not spamming ubuntu-devs are my only concerns
<wendar> if that's all sorted, and ubuntu-dev wants to be added, I'm fine with it
<ajmitch> alright
<highvoltage> sounds reasonable
<stgraber> +1
<wendar> another possibility is to just ask achuni to grant access to all ubuntu-dev, without joining up the launchpad teams
<ajmitch> it's a bit hard to ask a team that encompasses everyone with upload rights, ~ubuntu-dev is often added to other teams
<ajmitch> that could work
 * ajmitch just wants more people reviewing
<wendar> yeah, making that as easy as possible is a good idea
<wendar> though, there something neat about being granted priviledges when you join a team :)
<ajmitch> ideally we'd have some active arb helpers who could then go on to the arb team (election, appointment, whatever) & vote on apps
<ajmitch> the term length is indefinite in LP for some reason, but I know we all won't want to do this forever :)
<ajmitch> ok, that vaguely covers the recruiting agenda item from last month
 * ajmitch isn't sure if any of us have managed to set aside a regular reviewing time lately, so will skip that :)
<ajmitch> #topic General state of the ARB queue
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: General state of the ARB queue
<wendar> ajmitch: hmmm... we all had term expirations last I checked...
<ajmitch> I'm worried that applications are getting lost in the voting process
<ajmitch> wendar: I checked the other day, we no longer do
<wendar> ajmitch: how odd. I know mine's coming up soon
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+members shows no expiry dates
<wendar> ajmitch: yup, you're right
<wendar> ajmitch: well, it's 2 years after start anyway
<ajmitch> it's a life sentence :)
<highvoltage> oh dear
<wendar> so, 3 of us are out this September
<wendar> but, I don't think we should wait until then to add new people
<ajmitch> no, nominally there are 7 on the board, but a couple haven't been heard from for quite some time
<wendar> really, I'd be happy to treat it as more of a promotion process
<ajmitch> so would I
<wendar> we'd still need to do the poll of all ubuntu-devs
<wendar> but, it could be on a one-off basis
<ajmitch> & not require adjusting quorum for votes on apps, even universe just requred 2 +1s from MOTUs for new apps
<wendar> yeah, quorum is a fixed number, shouldn't vary by the size of the board
<wendar> (it already is that way, so no change needed)
<ajmitch> we've struggled to get 3 votes lately, I know everyone's been busy (myself included)
<wendar> ajmitch: yes, I'm thinking I may switch to making voting my first priority
<ajmitch> I came across an example of a lens that had the vote started about 7 weeks ago, but never got to +3
<wendar> especially if we get some regular arb contributors
<ajmitch> what do you think of a trello board for being able to see the state of the apps being worked on & reviewed? too much duplication?
<highvoltage> yeah I think it makes sense priorotising voting, the last thing we want is a backlog of perfectly good apps.
<wendar> reviewing an app that's already been cleaned up takes a lot less time than cleaning up a new one
<wendar> ajmitch: yeah, I wondered about using trello too
<ajmitch> really, the arb's only role should need to be voting
<wendar> ajmitch: it doesn't have to be a lot of work to maintain trello, if it's just the name and link for each app
<ajmitch> we can all do package clean up if we want, but voting is the main task
<ajmitch> wendar: right
<wendar> trello is far, far simpler to maintain than a wiki page for app status :)
<ajmitch> that way if you put an app up for vote, move it to the voting list in trello so we can see what to look at
 * ajmitch uses it a bit at work now
<wendar> and we can grant arb contributors full edit rights on trello
<ajmitch> yep
<wendar> and, any app submitter can quickly check the status of their app
<ajmitch> stgraber, highvoltage: in favour of it?
<highvoltage> yep
<stgraber> sounds good
<ajmitch> #action ajmitch to set up trello board for tracking application votes & reviewer notes
<meetingology> ACTION: ajmitch to set up trello board for tracking application votes & reviewer notes
<ajmitch> ok
 * ajmitch thought this weekend was going to be completely full with work, but it seems next weekend will be
<ajmitch> dholbach's suggested this apps sprint this week, I'll probably be lurking around #ubuntu-arb in the evenings as usual
<ajmitch> not sure how crazy everyones' schedules are, but it'd be nice to get through a few apps for the competition over the next few days
<wendar> Sunday is okay for me this week
<wendar> and Wednesday is a holiday
<ajmitch> lucky :)
<wendar> but otherwise I've got a couple hours in the morning and a couple in the evening
<wendar> so, I can do short snippets
<ajmitch> any time is helpful
<wendar> but, not big stuff
<wendar> like, a whole app review usually takes me 4 hours
<wendar> (with finding and fixing bugs)
<ajmitch> I can understand that, it can be quite involved
<ajmitch> we'll try & get some cleaned up apps for voting on
<wendar> I know I've got a couple that are just about ready to go up for vote
<ajmitch> they should take less time
<wendar> so, I can focus on those for this week
<wendar> and, on voting on the ones that are already up for vote
<wendar> does trello let you assign a task to a person/
<wendar> ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> just drag their icon onto the card
<wendar> cool, that'll help
<ajmitch> I'll probably need to get the email you use for trello so I can add people
<wendar> like, when I'm working on an app, I can put it in an active channel, and then tag it with my user
<wendar> because honestly, right now it'll take me 30minutes just to find all my active apps, check on their status, and figure out what the next step is for each :(
<ajmitch> yeah, and you can leave comments on each card, it's fairly quick to use
<wendar> okay, that'll help alot :)
<ajmitch> with that, is there any other business to talk about?
<ajmitch> apart from the meeting time & the next chair
<wendar> sounds like not :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<ajmitch> does this meeting time still work for people, and who volunteers to be the next chair? :)
 * ajmitch will have to volunteer someone for it soon
<ajmitch> highvoltage: you're next alphabetically, available for it next month?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: ok
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> next meeting at 21:00UTC on 27 july
<ajmitch> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jun 29 21:54:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-29-21.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-29-21.04.html
<ajmitch> thanks everyone
<wendar> thanks ajmitch!
<ajmitch> you can go & have your friday drinks now, if you haven't started already
<highvoltage> thank ajmitch
<wendar> hah, I've got to launch 2 features before friday drinks :)
<wendar> (launching them after is not a good idea, we used to do that in the dot-com days ;)
<highvoltage> wendar: ouch! good luck :)
 * ajmitch was going to be spending all day today doing work, but that's deferred thankfully :)
<wendar> ajmitch: happy Saturday :)
<ajmitch> heh, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-30
<ggg4444> can someone help me with my void 11 problem?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-01
<vibhav> When is the DMB meeting?
<head_victim> According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ the next one is on Monday 2nd July at 1400 UTC
<AsianFemale24> hello
<Citral> Hello, want help to install aircrack on ubuntu ... i have some problems http://pastebin.de/27673
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-06-24
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 24 16:31:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided a debdiff for quantal for ruby-openid (LP: #1190179). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1190179 in ruby-openid (Ubuntu Quantal) "XML denial of service vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190179
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<chrisccoulson> hi
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I am currently working on finishing the SDK work items and goals for June deliverables
<jdstrand> with luck, I will be done with June's work items today (thanks to me just picking up where sbeattie left off)
<jdstrand> I did some phablet image testing last week, and will continue that this week. mostly just making sure that various pieces are landing and working correctly
<jdstrand> I have monthly planning to do (with the help of the team)
<jdstrand> and hopefully can get out a pending update
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdes laur isn't here today, so tyhicks, you're up
<tyhicks> I suspect that I'll have some ContentPicker work this week, but won't know for sure until tomorrow
<tyhicks> I'm continuing to freshen up the dbus-dev patches so that they're in shape for uploading/upstreaming
<tyhicks> I'm also anxious to start work on the apparmor dbus policy parser changes that we voted on (pending jj's email about future IPC syntax)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: are you planning an apparmor upload to the ppa?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: probably not today
<tyhicks> jdstrand: do we need to coordinate uploads?
<jdstrand> ok. I will be doing a saucy upload to Ubuntu hopefully today, but also wanted to update the raring ppa with the same patches
<tyhicks> jdstrand: that'll be fine - I'll just rebase on what you upload
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I think if you are early or I am late, then yes. otherwise we should be ok
 * tyhicks nods
<tyhicks> I think that's it
<jdstrand> my changes shouldn't affect anything you're doing
<tyhicks> good
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm finishing up with the apparmor3 backport for the phablet kernels.
<jjohansen> there are some dbus patches tyhicks to look at
<jjohansen> A couple of patches for 2.8 bugs to get out so I can help sarnold do the 2.8.2 release
<jjohansen> I need to finish up my long delayed IPC syntax email that is blocking tyhick
<jjohansen> And of course get back to my June WI
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you have patches for the dbus package?
<jjohansen> tyhicks: no, I just mean looking at the dbus related patches you posted
<tyhicks> ah, got it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you wrote two of them, so you're almost half way done already ;)
<jjohansen> \o/
<jdstrand> heheh
<jdstrand> is that an implicit ack?
<tyhicks> heh :)
<jjohansen> well we all know my code is perfect ;-)
<jdstrand> :)
<jjohansen> oh I guess I should say I have the weekly meeting with kshijt8 for his GSoC work
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week
<sarnold> I'll also be doing apparmor patch reviews, hopefully apparmor 2.8.2 release, and a lower-priority effort to finish up the bouncy castle test code I'm partly underway with..
<sarnold> I think that's me, chrisccoulson's turn :)
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> it's firefox update day tomorrow, so i've been testing that today
<chrisccoulson> we are actually going to push chromium out this week as well ;) (going to do that after firefox)
<chrisccoulson> and then thunderbird too
<chrisccoulson> so, busy start to the week
<chrisccoulson> i did more work on oxide last week, and shall continue again later this week once the updates are out of the way
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/haskell-tls-extra.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pktstat.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tcptrack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freebsd-sendpr.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gromacs.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 24 16:57:08 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-24-16.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-24-16.31.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> np
<cjwatson> mdz: You're chairing this evening, right?
<cjwatson> Hmm
<cjwatson> Anyone else around?  Kees said he'd be 15mins late
<stgraber> I'm around
<soren> o/
<cjwatson> I can't chair, kids' bedtime and too noisy
<stgraber> should we wait for kees to have quorum?
<soren> fine with me.
<stgraber> I'm happy to chair but as the only thing on the agenda may need a vote, it's probably best to wait till kees joins us
<cjwatson> I don't mind waiting abit
<cjwatson> with spacing
<kees> here!
<kees> stgraber, cjwatson, soren: thanks for waiting :)
<stgraber> hey kees
<stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 24 20:10:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Action review
<stgraber> none listed on the wiki page
<stgraber> #topic ColinWatson (puppeting for RickSpencer): "rolling" alias for development series
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting | Current topic: ColinWatson (puppeting for RickSpencer): "rolling" alias for development series
<kees> everything last week got taken care of before I updated the agenda, so we're clean there
<mdz> hi
<kees> heya mdz
<mdz> sorry I'm late
<kees> no worries, we just got started
<cjwatson> Ah, good
<stgraber> hey mdz. No worries. I'll mark your as chair for the next meeting if that's alright (you were supposed to chair this one)
<stgraber> *you
<mdz> eek, sorry about that
<cjwatson> So this (topic) is a leftover from UDS, which we assigned to Rick to come back to us with a name for approval: the name is to be used as an alias for whatever the current development series is, both for the publisher (so that people can choose to just stick with the alias rather than remembering to change every six months) and for uploads (so that people targeting "whatever's current" can just keep uploading to the ...
<cjwatson> ... current alias without having to remember to change processes every six months)
<cjwatson> After a WHOLE bunch of back-and-forth, Rick has come back with "rolling"
<cjwatson> Hands up if you're surprised :)
<cjwatson> He's on holiday this week, so I said I'd puppet
<kees> for uploading, this means the release in the changelog?
<cjwatson> From my point of view, as long as the name doesn't clash with anything else significant, I consider it a bikeshed and am prepared to go with basically anything reasonable
<cjwatson> Right
<cjwatson> (Or the sftp target, for those who use that)
<kees> well sftp already has the "ubuntu" target.
<cjwatson> It's actually a bit more than that :)
<cjwatson> It's just not well known
<cjwatson> (Anyway, that's a fine detail)
<kees> for changelog, i'm less happy... this means there isn't really a sourceful hint as to the target release. hm
<cjwatson> Hasn't hurt Debian
<kees> but I guess it doesn't matter in practice.
<cjwatson> I personally wasn't going to use it for regular Ubuntu uploads
<cjwatson> But it would be available
<kees> things going into -proposed will still need a release name dash proposed...
<cjwatson> Not true
<cjwatson> Magic aliasing :)
<kees> well, okay, not NEED
<cjwatson> I haven't uploaded anything explicitly to -proposed for about six months
<kees> ok, I'm over my mental disruption about chnagelog now :)
<cjwatson> Direct uploads to the release pocket are redirected to -proposed automatically, so there's been no need
<cjwatson> I haven't started the implementation yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if the rolling -> <current dev> aliasing would happen most naturally after -proposed is stripped off, anyway
<kees> yeah, and nothing should use the changelog for that.. it should use actual pkg and version details
<cjwatson> Right, especially given widespread copies in modern Ubuntu
<kees> (thinking about the security workflow, for example)
<cjwatson> Yeah, I would be surprised if security didn't want to continue just using the true suite names; they don't have an awful lot of "oh, just use whatever's current" mindset
<kees> okay, I'm cool with what a rolling release would mean for the technical bits.
<kees> now, name. "rolling" is fine, but it'd be nice to have something snappier
<cjwatson> My only personal caveat about the name is that it sort of socially engineers us into coming closer to an *actual* rolling release, but arguably, we're gradually heading that way anyway and as long as we don't do it precipitously (which I don't think is going to happen) ...
<cjwatson> So I'm cool with it
<kees> what were the other suggested names, and why were they not used?
 * kees suggests "icarus"
<cjwatson> Honestly, I don't have a full list, we delegated the naming to Rick and this is what he came back with
<kees> or "babel"
<cjwatson> "ubuntu" was suggested; I said "argh, category conflict and hideous confusion"
<kees> haha, yeah, no
<cjwatson> So I'd be -1 on that one, but mentioning it for the record :)
<kees> i don't like "rolling" for similar reasons "rolling release confusion"
<cjwatson> If you want a full "why weren't other things used" then we'll have to wait for Rick to get back from holidays
<mdz> how about "current"?
<cjwatson> That and "next" were my preferred names, but I ran out of energy for bikeshedding and decided I wasn't too bothered.  I think "current" has the problem that people ask "well, isn't the LTS current?"
<kees> "current" would be sufficiently different from "stable" and "devel"
<cjwatson> Which I'd acknowledge - in fact it's similar to part of the problem with "ubuntu"
<kees> i like "next" a lot
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796585/
<cjwatson> "next" appeals to git people but not sure it's broad enough, and I think there was some concern about confusion with unity next
<stgraber> that's the list of names we came up during the vUDS session ^
<mdz> "next" WFM also
<kees> i don't like "tip" "head" or "trunk" because they're too tied to vcs imho. i don't have a vcs association with "next" as strongly.
<kees> i think "devel" is too overloaded already
<kees> (oh and "master" is too vcs-y for me too)
<stgraber> I personally like "next" and dislike "rolling" for the same reason kees mentioned earlier.
<kees> it sounds like "next" is best from that list? using a declarative instead of a proper noun also avoids release name confusion
<cjwatson> next and rolling are the same part of speech :-)
<cjwatson> Well, ish
<kees> i meant "rolling" being confused with "rolling release"
 * slangasek gets summoned
<cjwatson> kees: I guess my question is, how inaccurate would that really be
<kees> and I prefer "next" because it isn't an animal
<cjwatson> kees: Oh, certainly we should stay away from anything that could fit into the category this is aliasing
<kees> cjwatson: inaccurate? well, it's not a release, and to switch from "next" to "rolling" for an _actual_ rolling release would take non-zero work
<slangasek> so I'm not sure I can offer any more concrete justifications for one name or another, but it would be nice if this could be decided since it's been carried over several times now (through no fault of the TB)
<cjwatson> We (collectively) nacked the notion of moving straight to a rolling release in one step; but I think we are kind of heading in that direction in a variety of ways
<cjwatson> So I suppose it's kind of an aspirational name
<slangasek> if there's not a consensus for "rolling", should this maybe go to the next meeting, when rickspencer3 can be available?
<cjwatson> I agree that "rolling" and "release" (the latter in the traditional Ubuntu sense anyway) are kind of oxymoronic in combination
<kees> right, so I'd like to discourage a rolling release by not naming this alias "rolling"
<cjwatson> I can start the work either way if the TB doesn't object to the fundamental concept, and slot in the name at the end, so it doesn't necessarily delay us a lot to wait
<kees> slangasek: how about we go with "next" and if it has to be renamed, do that at a separate TB meeting. that way you're unblocked
<cjwatson> (The name would likely be a database entry anyway)
<kees> +1: alias for whatever is currently devel
<kees> +1: naming it "next"
<slangasek> cjwatson: does that unblock you?
<cjwatson> I'd hoped not to have to go round again, but it does look like "next" is the rough consensus here
<kees> what happens when there is no devel release? (right after stable cuts?)
<cjwatson> The interval there is minutes
<kees> heh, ok
<cjwatson> Well, maybe an hour or two at most
<cjwatson> I will try to make it not actually explode LP in that interval :)
<kees> well, i guess it appears, but can be frozen. nm
<cjwatson> slangasek: For now, yes
<kees> having this alias will make several of my tools much happier :)
<cjwatson> Do we need to explicitly vote here, or do we have clear consensus?
<stgraber> sorry, was re-watching some of the vUDS discussion. So sounds like we all agree on having the alias (I thought we did that already at an earlier meeting but it's good nobody changed their mind) and that we tend to prefer "next"
<stgraber> Do we want to vote on the name and have this set in stone or do we feel like we should give Rick a chance to convince us to use "rolling" instead?
<kees> i didn't see if soren had thoughts
<kees> i would like it actively not be "rolling" :P
<mdz> "rolling" seems misleading but apparently there are some political considerations here
<soren> kees: I didn't have a strong enough opinion to speak up :)
<kees> soren: heh :)
<stgraber> same here, I plan on -1 any vote to get "rolling" as that name, doesn't mean there can't be enough +1 to balance that out :)
<cjwatson> Well, at least for now, that would clearly require more votes than are present, so let's assume we wouldn't
<cjwatson> It sounds like if Rick wants to press for rolling then he needs to argue that case directly rather than by inadequate proxy :)
<kees> let's go with "next" and if it needs additional bikeshedding it can happen later
<cjwatson> I'll suggest that either he make the next meeting or he argue by e-mail
<kees> regardless, it sounds like you're unblocked and the dev work to support "next" can start
<stgraber> it's just going to be a pain to change after this goes live, so I'd suggest we let cjwatson do the actual implementation but just wait until after the next TB meeting to flip the switch
 * kees nods
<stgraber> so Rick (or anyone else for that matter) will have until then to argue for another name or we'll go with "next"
<kees> +1
<cjwatson> This certainly encourages me to put the name in the DB rather than hardcoding it, which is probably a good idea
<mdz> ok, 30 minutes on this topic. time to move on? :-)
<cjwatson> Not that I was massively inclined towards the latter, but still
<cjwatson> Sure
<cjwatson> Thanks
<stgraber> alright, moving on
<stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<kees> openss
<kees> l
<stgraber> right and a Micro release exception for Xen
<cjwatson> Oh, god.  I haven't really processed kees' reply on openssl yet.  Sorry ...
<Daviey> Discussion on OpenSSL as a system library seems to be wedged.
<kees> what's the update history on xen? do we have good testing for it?
<cjwatson> I don't think I'm persuaded by kees' position but I still need to reply properly
<kees> cjwatson: yeah, i figure openssl should continue a bit longer on the list, but we will need a vote at some point. slangasek promised a rebuttal too
<cjwatson> Daviey: Is mongodb upstream's promise to add an exception still proceeding?
<Daviey> cjwatson: yes, but MUCH slower than we hoped.
<Daviey> cjwatson: (but this is also related to the squid issue aswell.)
<kees> i didn't suspect you would be, since i can see the key elements where we have a separate conclusion on the same details :0
<kees> er, :P
<kees> i will follow up on the list with mre questions for xen.
<kees> btw, we have several standing "provisional" mres still. bdmurray pointed this out to me. do we want to set a specific time to review them?
<Daviey> I'm not comfortable speaking on behalf of the kernel team regarding xen, but my feeling as a server rep is that it isn't that good.  That said, I am supportive of this - providing a good level of QA is performed.
<stgraber> right, so we need to continue both the openssl discussion and the Xen MRE discussion on the mailing-list. I meant to ask some questions wrt testing to Stefan but apparently got distracted and forgot about it...
 * kees nods
<stgraber> kees: we can add that to the agenda of our next meeting
<kees> agreeds
<kees> and I'll add an official vote for the openssl thing, just to have it done.
<stgraber> ok
<cjwatson> Daviey: Hm, I thought it was a lot better from precise on
<cjwatson> Is that not the case?
<Daviey> cjwatson: Oh, it is MUCH better from precise.  But I do not know how good our regression testing is.
<kees> me too, but I haven't actually paid close attention
<cjwatson> Fair enough
<kees> cool
<stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
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<stgraber> count is still 0, moving on
<kees> empty!
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting
<stgraber> that'll be mdz
<mdz> ack
<stgraber> #topic AOB
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<stgraber> anything?
<kees> nothing from me.
<mdz> nope
<cjwatson> Not I
<stgraber> ok then, thanks everyone!
<kees> thanks stgraber!
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 24 20:55:04 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-24-20.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-24-20.10.html
<cjwatson> Thanks
<kees> cjwatson: the problem with openssl, is that you weight the areas you're highlighted higher than the areas I have, and vice-versa. I can't really show why your interpretation is _wrong_, just that I see a different one.
<kees> so it's a weird spot to be in. I do think the benfits of my interpretation exceed the downsides, though, so maybe that could be part of the evaluation too. hmm
<cjwatson> We possibly have different perceptions of the historical background
<kees> that's certainly true.
<cjwatson> I'm very wary of doing what could turn out to be a self-serving licence analysis - we're not the ones who get to pick the interpretation, which is why I tend to err towards the conservative when the licensors haven't given us guidance
<cjwatson> I'm pretty much always happy to regard explicit licensor guidance as primary (although remembering that the relevant licensors might be more than just the upstream project in question, if there's extra contributed/borrowed/linked code involved)
<kees> yeah; I certainly tend to try to see things by spirit when letter gets weird. anyway, to the mailing list. :)
<cjwatson> I agree that there are benefits in your interpretation, and we wouldn't be having the discussion if there weren't :)  I just think this isn't necessarily a situation where trying really hard lets us win
<cjwatson> But as you say
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-06-25
<lool> w00t
 * stgraber waves
<lool> barry, stgraber, ogra_, slangasek: hey
 * barry blinks
 * ogra_ shades his eyes to not get blinded by the bright blinking barry 
<lool> we need some background music too to go with the blinking
<barry> blinded by science
<lool> alright, lets keep this short  :-)
<lool> Colin gave me a quick update
<lool> he's helping with setting up the signing infrastructure for system-updates.u.c and will likely go physically to London to finish the setup
<lool> download service >> barry, Daniel started a thread on this but I've just noticed that you're on it (sorry!); will forward it to you
<lool> stgraber: so we have system-updates.u.c now live?  :-)
<barry> lool: +1
<lool> stgraber: tell us all about it
<stgraber> we indeed have the system-image.ubuntu.com server and I've published a bunch of images for testing
<lool> \o/
<stgraber> those shouldn't be used though as they're signed by fake gpg keys at this point
<stgraber> I'm currently in the process of automating the import of the daily rootfs builds (currently manually done) and will have to do the same with the Android builds but that should be easy
<stgraber> the images themselves aren't terribly useful at this point though as they need a few changes applied to them to become usable (those changes are related to the container flip and loop-mount which hasn't landed yet in the archive)
<lool> stgraber: cool; so essentially we have the real infrastrucure minus signing (in progress by Colin) and you're tuning the maintenance scripts we'll use and hooks to cdimage, then we can mass-generate all the images
<stgraber> (well, container flip has, just not the loop-mount+read-only side of things)
<stgraber> lool: yep
<ogra_> planned to be implemented by end of this week
<lool> so I guess this hooks us into ogra or ondra; maybe let's start wit the flipped images
<ogra_> we will switch to flipped by default today or tomorrow
<ogra_> and then start working on loop stuff
<lool> ogra_: so they work on all devices now including n10?  awesome
<ogra_> well, n10 still had crashers of the shell yesterday
<stgraber> ogra_: cool. I'll paste you the latest version of my patching script, it's working great on at least mako and grouper, so we'll need to look at landing those changes in the archive
<ogra_> i know rsalveti looked into that but dont know the outcome
<lool> loop stuff > I thought Steve L wanted us to look into repartitioning
<ogra_> 3G on mako works now (n4 that is)
<lool> is the loop-mounting just for community supported devices? (non-nexus)
<ogra_> stgraber, yeah
<stgraber> lool: we'll support both
<ogra_> lool, loop mounting is for all at the start
<ogra_> and re-partitioning will be added in the first half of next month
<lool> hmm ok; seems a bit indirect to me, but eh at least we will know it works
<ogra_> as an additional option
<lool> ok
<stgraber> lool: when possible we'll repartition (galaxy nexus, nexus4 and nexus10) and support loop-mount for the rest (nexus7 and community ports)
<ogra_> our images will default to it
<ogra_> all community images will default to loop
<lool> I'm guessing we'll have to revisit phablet-tools quite a bit for the new system-updates; this is a bit far off right now, but might be a good thing to look after once we have the updates working
<ogra_> (with the option for the porter to switch indeed, *if* the device allows repartitioning)
<lool> stgraber: is there a technical reason nexus 7 doesn't allow partitioning, or is it just that we don't want to spend too much time on it?
<lool> or perhaps we keep it as a loop-mounted platform for our own testing
<stgraber> lool: completely screwed up gpt setup
<lool> eh ok
<lool> oh crap, just lost ondra
<ogra_> well, the n7 will be our loop reference install then :)
<stgraber> lool: the partition table is at the end of the flash, with both the primary and secondary tables at the same place, invalid version number and some other issues, we figured it'd be easier just not to support it
<lool> stgraber: OMG
<lool> stgraber: and I guess the bootloader relies on these locations too
<lool> outside of status of recovery ROM's support of gpg and xz with ondra, are there other points to cover today?
<stgraber> lool: yeah, apparently the bootloader is at the location where the primary table should be, so if you use parted on it and you let it write the missing primary partition, you rick the device
<lool> "rick" lol
<stgraber> *risk :)
<lool> your risk the device becomes a rock
<stgraber> gah, not awake yet, sorry :)
<lool> ondra: wb
<stgraber> meant *brick obviously
<lool> ondra: I think last point we had to cover was recovery ROM support for gpg and xz
<ondra> lool: sorry my nautilus crashed and took whole ubuntu down
<lool> np
<lool> ondra: how are things going there/
<lool> s#/#?#
<ondra> so I did last night test recovery images with gpg in them for N4 and N7. stgraber has those now
<lool> great; is this using android build system to build gnupg, or is this by copying glibc + other libs + gnupg from ubuntu binaries?
<ondra> I managed to compile xz with android, but tar is one I'm still struggling with, so when I was looking for some tar alternative code and I found out that busybox has already tar and unxz support
<ogra_> hmm ?
<ondra> no this is build with android
<lool> great; so you'll just turn on these configs in busybox?
<ogra_> our zip contains a tarball
<lool> (tar and xz)
<ogra_> since forever
<ogra_> so there must currenlt be some kind of tar
<ogra_> *vurrently
<ogra_> bah
<ondra> but using NDK for the moment, and Android.mk on the way, hopefully we will soon have it from code
<ondra> for now I sent patch with binary gpg to sergio who will add it to the git repo
<lool> urgh
<lool> that sounds pretty bad maintenance wise
 * ogra_ wonders if lool has ever seen phablet.ubuntu.com :P
<ondra> lool: so tar was in busybox always, but recently they also added unxz
<ogra_> it is full of binary crap
<ondra> lool: so this is already there
<lool> I knew the toolchains were binary, didn't know we kept tons of binaries around
<ogra_> we do
<stgraber> ogra_: yep, that's what ondra noticed, so we'll be using busybox's tar and xz for now (they should be enough feature wise) and hack gpg into it until we can get a clean build of it
<lool> or is this the repo were we keep things we've built from the source tree?
<ogra_> stgraber, ondra ++
<ogra_> lool, the plan is to properly weed it out and base on binaries from the archive
<ogra_> its just a long and slow process
<lool> stgraber: so you'll be hand-patching the recovery initrd to add the gpg binary and the scripts to verify updates?
<ogra_> until then one more binary doesnt do harm
<ondra> lool: I added gpg as binary just so stgraber can test, I don't plan it to have it that way, so Android build should be used
<ondra> lool: same goes for xz and hopefully also for tar
<lool> ogra_: who's workong on this part?
<ondra> lool: I think we should eventually remove busybox from recovery
<lool> ogra_: I'm aware of an effort to build the android daemons in the archive, didn't know about the effort to replace recovery rom (I thought it was just an idea if we're stuck)
<ondra> lool: or we can tweak busybox to build only tar and unxz
<ogra_> lool, xnox is doing the first shot on packaging the android bits ... then we'll have a base to work with and split it into smaller chunks
<lool> ogra_: ok, so it's both for the android runtime and for the recovery rom then?
<lool> I guess that makes sense
<ogra_> lool, the plan is to have the whole android repo packaged
<ondra> ogra_: so are we replacing android recovery with Ubuntu based one?
<ogra_> no
<stgraber> lool: for now we just want our recovery images to contain the tools we need for testing, after that I'll work on a shell script using those to apply the updates and when that thing works, will get it included too
<ogra_> we use what we have, just from a package that we will then split into smaller pieces over time
<ogra_> so you can eventually also apt-get install android-gpg ;)
<lool> stgraber: assuming we wont have moved to Ubuntu initrds before you're done, will you be fine submitting your additions to phablet.u.c?  I guess sergiusens would be able to help you land these
<ogra_> the builds will still spit out the device specific img files as usual during build
<stgraber> lool: that's the plan
<ogra_> (ramdisk, system, recovery)
<lool> alright; anything else for today anyone?
<barry> lool: just a quick one
<lool> barry: shoot
<barry> ondra: i'm almost at the point where i'm ready to work on reboot.  could you make sure that the interface between the client and upgrader is accurately documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Upgrader
<ondra> barry: I will check it, it should be according to what we in android code
<barry> ondra: cool, thanks
<ondra> barry: but as far ad I understand stgraber wants to use script to apply files
<stgraber> ondra, barry: so since we're not actually calling the android upgrader but our own, the interface doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) match the existing Android one
<ondra> barry: so we probably should talk together what command we will actually store in that command file
<stgraber> basically keeping the standard Android interface for rollbacks to Android (where we want to call the Android upgrader)
<barry> mostly, i want to make sure we've documented, e.g. "write these files here with that content", "call this thing to do the reboot with these args", etc.  i don't want the code to be the only spec :)
<ondra> stgraber: what we can do is that we put in that command file actual commands for for update
 * barry nods
<ondra> barry: agree, there should be documented way you pass information to recovery about downloaded files
<stgraber> ondra: I'd prefer to keep the command file generic so avoid actual commands, what we need to pass it is an ordered list of file
<stgraber> ondra: so my first thought would be to use an ubuntu_command file (instead of Android's command file) which contains just that (one line per file sorted in flash order)
<ondra> stgraber: actually we can change current recovery so in Ubuntu Touch case, it will execute our shell script, passing command file as parameter
<stgraber> barry: as for where to put stuff and how to trigger the reboot, I can help you with that part
<ondra> stgraber: agree,command file should not have any commands, just list of files
<barry> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> ondra: my thought being that if the recovery finds /cache/recovery/command => triggers Android update code, if it finds /cache/recovery/ubuntu_command => triggers Ubuntu update code
<barry> stgraber: i like that
<ondra> stgraber: yeah, agree
<stgraber> that way we don't really have to care about what Android does, we just avoid messing with its files
<ondra> stgraber: and I'd pass then that ubuntu_command to your script as parameter
<stgraber> ondra: yep
<ondra> yep, and we keep full compatibility with android, so users can roll back any time
<ondra> stgraber: OK I will look into recovery code and add it there, if we find ubuntu command file, we will go for it
<stgraber> so I think that's a good plan for now, we may have some more changes on that after that meeting on the recovery environment which I believe slangasek's planning to have this week
<lool> so next week: ogra switching to flipped images, shaking bugs; xnox continuing work on android bits in archive with new cross toolchain; stgraber working on scripts to apply updates in recovery ROM; ondra to enable xz in our recovery ROMs; barry joining download service discussion; ondra + barry syncing on reboot interface
<barry> +1
<lool> alright; slightly over time, but I think we're done; thanks guys!  it's great to see this coming together, update site going live, switching to flipped images etc.  :-)
<lool> have a great EOD
<stgraber> barry: I'll update the upgrader page on the wiki once I'm actually properly awake and done catching up on e-mail. I expect it to mostly say to dump the files in /android/cache/recovery, write the list of files in /android/cache/recovery/command and then call "reboot -f recovery" to apply
<ogra_> ciao ciao
<barry> stgraber: sounds easy :)
<ondra> stgraber: I will read again android code, to see if they had usecase for something else than list of files in command file and let you know
<ondra> see you guys
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> Hello
<smoser> o/
<arosales> Looks like it is top of the hour so I will kick this off (looks like I am on point to chair)
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 25 16:00:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
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<Daviey> o/
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> looks like not actions from past meeting
<arosales> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> A1 June 27th
<arosales> smoser, jamespage is server opting in?
<jamespage> nope
<arosales> ok
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<smoser> no opt in.
<arosales> jamespage, would you or smoser like to guide us through this section?
<adam_g_> o/
<jamespage> sure
<arosales> jamespage, thanks.
<jamespage> smoser: bug 1180867	
<ubottu> bug 1180867 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Raring) "cloud-config merging not forward or backward compatible" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180867
<smoser> hm..
<jamespage> dosaboy, bug 962046
<ubottu> bug 962046 in python-boto (Ubuntu Raring) "EC2 metadata retrieval fails with spaces in a resource name" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962046
<smoser> that is uploaded to raring
<smoser> in the sru review queue
<smoser> (the cloud-init bug)
<jamespage> bug 1031680 and bug 1162139 need some love if anyone has time
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<ubottu> bug 1162139 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "mysql-5.5 still built using GCC-4.4, should be built with the default GCC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162139
<jamespage> smoser, ack
<jamespage> bug 1180084 needs to be applied into raring
<ubottu> bug 1180084 in nova (Ubuntu Raring) "nova-conductor should be in main" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180084
<jamespage> anyone know if we can do seed changes post release?
<roaksoax> jamespage: we did it for MAAS
<roaksoax> a few packages were promoted to main
<jamespage> roaksoax, OK
<jamespage> I don't think any other release bugs warrant discussion - alot are SRU's in Fix Committed state
<jamespage> so anyone with spare time - verification would be great!
<jamespage> arosales, back to you
<arosales> jamespage thank you sir
<arosales> sorry for the delay
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-saucy/group/topic-saucy-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> how are BPs looking . . .
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> this one works a little better
 * arosales will udpate the IRC commands
<jamespage> trend line needs a reset
<jamespage> arosales, did you get to the bottom of my missing BP's?
<arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands is updated
<arosales> did yours ever show up?
<arosales> I added a raw work item
<arosales> jamespage what was the BP name again?
<Daviey> jamespage: Can you let me know what might need component changing ?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
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<jamespage> and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<adam_g_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<adam_g_> this ones missing, too
<arosales> hmm
<arosales> jamespage, adam_g_ we may need to open a bug against the tracker for that
<Daviey> I wonder if it is status...
<arosales> since it is linked to the topic BP
 * Daviey set a Priority, which was null
<jamespage> "     Proposed for saucy"
<jamespage> maybe that needs to be accepted
<arosales> the mongodb one looks good . . .
<Daviey> Accepted :)
<jamespage> nope - thats not it
<Daviey> lets see if it appears
<Daviey> I'll take the action of following that through
<arosales> #action Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
<arosales> so BPs updated
<arosales> lets take a look at essential ones
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing
<arosales> that is in progress
<arosales> testing harness and plugin made
 * arosales needs to update BP .. .
<arosales> actually that is the only essential BP
<arosales> actually looks like we need to set priority on all our BPs
<jamespage> agreed
<arosales> can we make that a goal for this week?
<jamespage> Daviey, ^^ only you can do that
<arosales> #action Daviey set priority on s-cycle BPs
<meetingology`> ACTION: Daviey set priority on s-cycle BPs
<arosales> previous action didn't take
<arosales> #action Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
<arosales> ok
<arosales> any other BPs folks would like to discuss?
<arosales> overall we look to be in the red on status, but I suspect that is due to BPs not being updated
<arosales> ok, sounds like there is no other BPs that needs discussion
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<arosales> OSCON is the only upcoming one for the juju team
<arosales> any others
<arosales> btw OSCON is end of July
<arosales> ok so moving on
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
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<plars> hi
<plars> nothing major from me
<plars> psivaa was able to help narrow down the kernel problem causing floodlight failures
<plars> and jsalisbury found which change it was I think, so we should have a fix for that soon
<arosales> plars, good to hear root cause on floodlight failures
<arosales> plars, thanks for the update
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
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<arosales> smb: Hello are you available?
<arosales> any questions for kernel we need to follow up on?
<arosales> for the kernel team that is :-)
<arosales> I take it that we are ok there
<arosales> next topic
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
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 * arosales doesn't see rbask atm
<arosales> on the ARM front from Juju we are trying to testing juju-core on ARM for saucy
<arosales> any other ARM related topics
<jamespage> better get that compiler working for ARM then :-)
<arosales> jamespage noted, and dave cheney is working on that bit of work
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
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<arosales> any other topics to discuss?
<arosales> I think we have been saying for a bit now to get BPs udpated
<arosales> so lets make a good push this week to get BPs udpated and priority sets so we can see the development picture next week.
<arosales> with that we'll close this meeting
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2013-07-02 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<arosales> jamespage, plars, Daviey, adam_g_ , roaksoax , smoser thanks for jonining this week!
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 25 16:31:42 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-16.00.html
<jamespage> arosales, thanks for chairing
<jamespage> ttfn
<arosales> np, glad to :-)
<smb> \o
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 25 17:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<sconklin> o/
<sforshee> o/
<rtg_> o/
<cking> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> nothing to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> No update from ogasawara since she is traveling.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-06-25 (7 days) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 61 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE added and 3 CVEs retired in the last week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has reduced slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (Jun. 25):
<sconklin> *   Lucid - in Verification;
<sconklin> * Precise - in Verification;
<sconklin> * Quantal - in Verification;
<sconklin> * Raring  - in Verification;
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 25 17:04:02 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<cking> blink
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-06-26
 * slangasek waves
<ev> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 26 15:01:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> barry doko ev slangasek xnox stgraber jodh bdmurray stokachu cjwatson
<barry> win!
<barry> image based updates: better logging; consistency in nomenclature between wiki and code.  LP: #1191150.  LP: #1192586.  Fixing checksum checking.  weekly meeting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1191150 in Ubuntu system image "Save the.tar.xz and tar.xz.asc keyring files" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191150
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192586 in Ubuntu system image "Add the current build number to the User-Agent" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192586
<barry> python bug 16499 (-I "isolation mode")
<ubottu> bug 8727 in linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #16499 [ACPI] Can't connect network with 3Com 3c556B" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8727
<barry> flufl.bounce 2.2.1-1
<barry> objectives; patch pilot; random bits of system administration; being evil w/my new debian beta capsule
<barry> done
<slangasek> doko's on holiday
<slangasek> ev:
<slangasek> ... "debian beta capsule"?
<ev> ah right
<ev> - Lots of planning our way out of the Cassandra ENOSPC hell with the webops
<ev>   team:
<ev>   https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/Projects/InProgress/UE/CassandraSpace
<ev>   - Simplified: we're moving to Cassandra on Prodstack and Ceph, fast.
<ev>   - We're going to keep under 1TB per node, which should help us quite
<ev>     significantly with compactions, enabling compression, general performance,
<ev>     and dealing with losing a node.
<ev>   - The existing DC cluster will become the testbed for compression and
<ev>     Cassandra 1.2.5, then will get absorbed into Prodstack.
<ev>   - We'll build a secondary cluster on Prodstack, in prep for having a hot
<ev>     standby, further experimentation, and Hadoop.
<ev> - Increasing our metrics via statsd and graphite significantly in preparation
<ev>   for the Ceph move, so we can get a deep understanding of the performance
<ev>   penalty. Also moving away from Cassandra for storing metrics as a matter of
<ev>   consistency.
<ev>   - Added a path to graphite on the retracers.
<barry> slangasek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman
 * barry is probably dating himself ;)
<slangasek> :)
<ev> I've been catching up on Cassandra SF and Cassandra NYC '13 videos in my free time, making thorough notes in the hope I can point people at the better talks
<ev> (done)
<ev> already proving helpful in discussions with James and Tom though
<slangasek>  * discovering plymouth is somewhat on the floor on i386 (bug #1187318) and spending an inordinate amount of time trying to debug this
<ubottu> bug 1187318 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Splash skips text when asking for LUKS password" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187318
<slangasek>  * ongoing work on supporting repartitioning of android devices at bootstrap time
<slangasek>   * N7 has been given lower priority, so I no longer have to deal with the madness of the completely non-standard GPT on there
<slangasek>   * instead, focused on worrying about getting parted support into the recovery image so we can use it
<slangasek>  * objectives-wrangling
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> * Upstart:
<xnox>  - code review and merges for 1.9 release
<xnox>  - discussions about plumbers upstart talk
<xnox>  - upstart in debian, raising discussion about init scripts
<xnox>  development + ongoing job forwarding / replying to maintainers'
<xnox>  questions.
<xnox> * android-cross-toolchain:
<xnox>  - gcc4.8 built android images do not boot, whilst other compilations
<xnox>  are ok (e.g. busybox binary works). Identified
<xnox>  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57221 in progress to
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 57221 in libgcc "[4.8/4.9 regression] libgcc symbol visibility changes break Android blobs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<xnox>  recompile and try toolchain with patch from above bug.
<xnox> * miscellanious:
<xnox>  - fixed fallout from ubiquity moving from gksudo to pkexec.
<xnox>  bug #1193526 . Turns out pkexec, doesn't exec much on lxde/xfce.
<ubottu> bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193526
<xnox>  - synchronising packages & forwarding my ubuntu patches to debian.
<xnox>  - merged e2fsprogs, uploaded hyphen-ru & oo.o-hyphenation to fix
<xnox>  bug #1187250
<ubottu> bug 1187250 in openoffice.org-hyphenation (Ubuntu) "package hyphen-ru (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/hyphen/hyph_ru_RU.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.6" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187250
<xnox> done
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - On holiday until Thursday 20th.
<jodh>   - Working on Debconf and Plumbers presentations.
<jodh> * Upstart:
<jodh>   - Fixed and merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1188642
<jodh>   - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1159895
<jodh>   - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart.
<jodh>   - Worked on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs
<jodh>     with xnox.
<jodh>   - Release prep for Upstart 1.9 with xnox.
<jodh> ðª
<jodh> stgraber: oops - sorry! :)
<stgraber> jodh: hey, that was my turn ;)
 * bdmurray will wait
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - Implemented some more tools (trigger the mirrors, generate keyring signatures, switched to sha256, ...)
<stgraber>   - Pushed a few test images to the production server
<stgraber>   - Opened RT to get the production GPG keys setup, should happen this week
<stgraber>   - Had a couple of meetings on the subject
<stgraber>   - Clarified some details in the specs
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
<stgraber>   - Updated my test code for loop-mount images to work on nexus4 and nexus7
<stgraber>   - Some more discussions on partitioning and containers
<stgraber>   - Looked into cherry-picking pidns and mntns patches into the 3.4 kernel used on mako (to get lxc-attach working), seems trickier than expected but will spend some more time on it today.
<stgraber>   - Discussed udev vs ueventd
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Prototyped a minimal dbus service for LXC
<stgraber>   - Discussed integration of upstream LXC with OpenStack
<stgraber>   - Usual code reviews
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>   - Alpha-1 release engineering work
<stgraber>   - Landed a couple of fixes and tweaks to the QATracker for the self-service rebuild feature
<stgraber>   - Landed the first version of the self-service rebuild tool on nusakan, running every 5 minutes
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Fixed openvpn component mismatch
<stgraber>   - Did SRU validation of an ubiquity bug
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - TODAY: Try to cherry-pick pidns+mntns support into our mako kernel (needs a few changes to the code to strip userns references)
<stgraber>  - TODAY: Objectives
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Switch to production GPG keys
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Write a tool to convert Android system.img into .tar.xz format (similar to what we have for the rootfs)
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Integrate the system-image module with cdimage to publish updates to the daily channel as they appear
<stgraber>  - Write some tools for manual actions on system-image (manage channels, manage keyrings, manually publish updates, ...)
<stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<bdmurray> code reviews for evan
<bdmurray> reported errors bug 1193022 regarding NotFound exception
<bdmurray> worked around LP: #1186215 by adding laney to list of cached teams
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater to account for something already set to 0
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater email code to keep track of package versions
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater to use a tmpfile during html report writing
<ubottu> bug 1193022 in Errors "tastypie not returning NotFound exception error message" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193022
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1186215 in Daisy "Timed out while loading subscriptions for most-common-problems" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186215
<bdmurray> modified phased updater to control sending email via a switch
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater to have a switch for displaying full updates
<bdmurray> merge proposal for phased-updater code
<bdmurray> resolution of issue with date updated in arsenal team assigned report
<bdmurray> readded update-notifier watching for avahi disabled for non upstart user sessions
<bdmurray> worked on making package hooks part of update-notifier be an upstart user job
<slangasek> xnox: so I noticed you said the toolchain won't be uploaded to the archive until next month... are you hedging?  What are the chances it'll still be uploaded this week?
 * Laney giggles
<bdmurray> tested bug 1181424 regarding dist-upgrades and rsyslog
<bdmurray> tested bug 1062688 regarding apport (seems edubuntu specific)
<bdmurray> triage of bug 1187250, 1193346
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1192332
<ubottu> bug 1181424 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "cannot upgrade i386 raring to saucy" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181424
<ubottu> bug 1062688 in apport (Ubuntu) "cannot submit bugs through ubuntu-bug program in live session when localized" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062688
<ev> thanks for looking into those, bdmurray
<ubottu> bug 1187250 in openoffice.org-hyphenation (Ubuntu) "package hyphen-ru (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/hyphen/hyph_ru_RU.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.6" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187250
<ubottu> bug 1193346 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "oem config shortcut not present in oem installations" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193346
<ubottu> bug 1192332 in update-manager (Ubuntu Raring) "SRU of change to phased updater percentage calculation to consider source not binary packages" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192332
<bdmurray> ubuntu-classroom session regarding good bug reports
<bdmurray> irc discussion with security team regarding bug 1094777 and copying the package to security
<ubottu> bug 1094777 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Can't use c-n-r-gtk to initiate Quantal -> Raring update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094777
<bdmurray> â done â
<stokachu> Need nomination approval for bug 1062265, Need Sponsorship for python-boto in the precise unapproved queue, Would like to get status update from cyphermox or others wrt bug 1004775, Need Upload/Sponsorship for bug 1187524
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1062265 could not be found
<ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775
<ubottu> bug 1187524 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu Precise) "Frequent disconnects under certain network conditions" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187524
<stokachu> sec
<cjwatson> there's no nomination on bug 1062265, private bug
<cjwatson> 1194901?
<stokachu> yea copied the wrong one
<cjwatson> no, that doesn't have any noms either ...
<stokachu> bug 1068145
<ubottu> bug 1068145 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "Fix for CVE-2012-3867 (puppet) is too restrictive - TLS certificates now break" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068145
<stokachu> there we go
<stokachu> (done)
<cyphermox> stokachu: I uploaded a NM to precise queue for 1004775
<cyphermox> (last week)
<cjwatson> approved those nominations
<xnox> slangasek: if it compiles something that can be executed and doesn't segfault, if can be uploaded this week. working on making that to happen. Not sure what hedging means.... gardening term?!
<stokachu> cjwatson: thanks
<stokachu> cyphermox: was that to address comment 23 in that bug?
<cyphermox> stokachu: yes
<stokachu> (sorry i havent looked at the upload changelog)
<stokachu> cyphermox: awesome thanks a bunch!
<slangasek> xnox: hedging a bet, so that you don't lose everything if you bet wrong :)
<slangasek> nothing related to shrubberies with a nice two-level effect
<stokachu> oh and if anyone is friends with debian ftpmasters to please have them approve sosreport :D
<cjwatson> community-s-autopkgtesting: Spent a fair bit of time on support, and chasing down strange migration failures.  Almost there now.  There's still a problem with failures getting lost, I think, although it seems to be on jibel's side.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Finalised click-package 0.1 format; uploaded to saucy.  Discussed QtCreator integration with bzoltan.
<cjwatson> foundations-r-phased-updates: Implemented "set phased update percentage on copy" API in LP.  Awaiting review (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/copy-set-phase/+merge/170775).
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup: Trying to resurrect my autobuilder again.  Having trouble with Canonistack not doing what it's told.  Again.
<cjwatson> Fixed https://launchpad.net/builders occasionally returning Forbidden (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/builders-visibility/+merge/170818, https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/testfix-builders-visibility/+merge/170941).
<cjwatson> Added another small LP API export required to allow managing chroots over the API (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/das-removechroot-api/+merge/171125) and wrote a manage-chroot client tool for ubuntu-archive-tools.
<cjwatson> Merges/syncs: mlocate, nginx, pacemaker, openhpi, patchutils, syslinux, java3d, collectd, sqlite3, haskell-hoogle, git-annex, raincat, haskell98-report, haskell-readline, libgdchart-gd2, hocr, findutils, console-tools, man-db, manpages-zh, libgd-gd2-perl, pytables, libgd-gd2-noxpm-perl, automake1.11, php-horde-whups, php-horde-wicked, crystalspace, polybori
<cjwatson> Fixed software-properties autopkgtest.  I think.  Took several tries.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> stokachu: 1062265 appears to be the private bug; is there a corresponding public bug filed against the package for this?
<slangasek> ah, 1194901
<cjwatson> no, 1068145, you're behind :)
<stokachu> slangasek: cjwatson got it
<stokachu> lol
<slangasek> ok
<xnox> slangasek: not intentionally.
<stokachu> slangasek: cyphermox uploaded a new network-manager for bug 1004775
<ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775
<slangasek> xnox: well, I would say yes you're hedging, which is fine ;)  Just wanted to understand where things were and if you were still hoping to make progress this week
<slangasek> stokachu: ack - will try to help get that SRU queue down this week (since I didn't last week, meh)
<slangasek> any further discussion over statuses?
<stokachu> cyphermox: bug 1187524 is that on your list to upload soon?
<ubottu> bug 1187524 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu Precise) "Frequent disconnects under certain network conditions" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187524
<stokachu> slangasek: awesome, thanks man
<cyphermox> stokachu: also in the queue: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/142753746/wpasupplicant_0.7.3-6ubuntu2.2_source.changes
<stokachu> cyphermox: awesome, thanks again
<slangasek> [TOPIC] system image updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: system image updates
<slangasek> ok, so we discussed last week having topics for deeper discussion
<slangasek> I picked an easy one to start us off... stgraber and barry have plenty to tell us about system image updates :)
<slangasek> remember, this isn't a lecture... ask questions!
 * slangasek cedes the floor
<barry> does anybody not know what system image updates is generally about?
<slangasek> barry: maybe drop a blueprint / spec link, just in case?
<barry> sure, sec...
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades
<stgraber> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-image-based-updates
<barry> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image
<barry> stgraber: do you want to start? :)
<stgraber> sure
<stgraber> So basically we're working on the update mechanism for touch devices. Those won't use the good old apt+dpkg combo but instead have that done in the DC and delta images pushed out to the users.
<stgraber> the infrastructure is split into 3 main pieces, the server, the client and the upgrader
<stgraber> barry is in charge of the client, ondra is in charge of the upgrader and recovery environment and I'm doing the server side of things
<stgraber> What that means is that at least initially touch devices won't touch archive.ubuntu.com, instead they'll get full system updates from system-image.ubuntu.com and apps from the click package repository
<slangasek> do you guys have an estimate of how much download savings this would give us today?
<stgraber> probably not much as in the end we grab the same content, though in .tar.xz form so maybe slightly more compressed than some of our current packages and we'll skip some paths in the near future
<barry> two things to consider, overall download size and number of connections.  certainly on the latter, it's vastly reduced (but not entirely trivial due to having to grab multiple data files and signature files)
 * slangasek nods
<stokachu> stupid question but will this be limited to wifi only?
<slangasek> but a big benefit is increased reliability, and a less disruptive cadence of applying the updates
<stgraber> the main advantage is on the install time/CPU side of things as we install those in the DC and then push a delta of the installed system, we don't need to run any maintainer script and so should be much faster at actually applying changes
<slangasek> stokachu: I think that'll be configurable
<stgraber> the other main advantage is that we know exactly what's on every devices as they're all identical
<barry> stokachu: so, there's also this related thing called the download service
<stgraber> this should make testing much much easier
<stokachu> ah ok
<stgraber> the downside however is that we required a reboot to apply updates as we're doing that from the recovery environment
<stgraber> *require
<barry> mainly it's being developed for apps, but we think it won't be too hard to adapt it to image updates too.  it'll be a generic dbus service that interfaces w/ui and settings, and downloads files for us.  it will support wifi-only, suspend/resume, etc.
<barry> for now at least mandel is developing the download service
<stokachu> its this a totally separate build infrastructure?
<stgraber> at this point we have a working command line client thanks to barry, we have a mostly working server and have some test images of the updated recovery environment
<xnox> QUESTION: in a flipped model what will be recovery environment? something akin android recovery or ubuntu's own recovery?
<stgraber> I have hope of having all three pushed to test images by early next week so we can test the whole thing
<stgraber> xnox: currently it's based on CWM, so Android
<xnox> ack.
<stgraber> it's not out of the question to switch to an Ubuntu based initrd for recovery, but we'd then have to port the Google tools to it (to allow for rollback to Android)
<slangasek> stokachu: the image updates are built in much the same way as the install images; they'll be constructed from packages in the archive
<stokachu> slangasek: gotcha
<stgraber> so for now it seemed easier to hack the existing environment to include the tools we need (tar, xz and gpg)
<slangasek> stgraber, barry: what's the overall plan for dealing with packages that have maintainer scripts that need to be run at upgrade time?
<stgraber> slangasek: we haven't looked into that specifically, however we have a "bootme" flag we can set which forces a reboot after applying the update, so in such case, we'd need to have something trigger at boot, run the action and write a stamp file
<slangasek> ok
<stgraber> as far as I know, we haven't run into any of those yet as the number of files and directories I'm marking as persistent is very limited (basically just log files and NetworkManager config/state)
<stgraber> but I expect we'll see some of that in the future
<slangasek> I think you'll want to look at this sooner rather than later, as maintainer scripts can find themselves needing to do random things on the filesystem at any time :)
<slangasek> and for the rest of the team, note this means that if you're adding things to maintainer scripts in the base system, you might want to flag those to stgraber + barry for consideration on how to handle in the image update case
<stgraber> I expect we'll have a list of all persistent paths published somewhere once we've done the flip to read-only rootfs
<cjwatson> Some kind of written guidance on which kinds of things matter would be good, yes
<cjwatson> Since we'll have to keep up with Debian changes too, perhaps\
<barry> these probably won't have any impact on the client, but will have a bigger impact on the recovery/updater
<slangasek> barry: true
<stgraber> after that, we'll need to be told of any maintainer script afecting some of those
 * slangasek nods
<xnox> ... and dpkg triggers
<xnox> (to a lesser extend than interesting upgrade scripts)
<slangasek> so I think this is going to need to be automated somewhere along the line... probably by something that examines the before/after while generating the update tarball
<stgraber> now, something I didn't mention here yet, is that we have two types of updates we support, delta and full. Most users will be using delta images to get from where they are to the latest version. Full images are there for initial installation and for cases where we can't resolve a path using deltas (or where such a path would be larger than a full).
<slangasek> and can give us a report of what needs to be handled
<xnox> stgraber: interesting thought can't the cdimage builder take old image & upgrade it, instead of building afresh? thus executing maintainer scripts, at least to compare to a fresh build one to detect anomalies.
<barry> the client looks at all possible paths from where you are to the latest version, then applies a configurable heuristic to the candidates to choose a winning upgrade path
<stgraber> xnox: it could but I don't see what that'd give us. We're interested in maintainer scripts that change files that aren't in the base image, so analyzing changes to the base image won't help us there.
<xnox> i see. ack.
<barry> candidate selection does not take into account the bootme flag, but downloading/reboot does, so it's possible that a phone may need to do multiple such calculations to get to the latest version
<stgraber> oh, one more thing worth mentioning, we plan on letting developers move to "developer mode"
<stgraber> doing so will grab any required files we removed from the base image (such as /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt), then write a stamp file letting the initrd know that / should be read-write
<stgraber> from that point on, you can do whatever you want on the rootfs but won't be able to use barry's tool anymore (until you flash a new full image and remove the stamp file)
<barry> LP: #1192577
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192577 in Ubuntu system image "Support for switching to apt-get mode" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192577
<slangasek> and then somewhere down the line, having some magic that let us install packages with apt-get *without* having to be in "developer mode" would be rather nice, for convergence
<slangasek> but that's not a problem to solve for this cycle :)
<stgraber> right, I have a work item to look into that for 14.04 but it's tricky :)
<stgraber> if any of you want to test loop-mounted read-only saucy flipped image on your nexus4 or nexus7, you can use: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5801861/
<stgraber> it needs a bunch of tools to be installed: abootimg, android-tools-adb, android-tools-fastboot and android-tools-fsutils
<slangasek> and I understand flipped images are becoming the default this week some time
<slangasek> (hurray!)
<stgraber> it'll basically grab the current saucy rootfs and the current android for your device, patch those to work with loop-mount+read-only then generate a boot image and a system.img file to be uploaded to the data partition
<stgraber> just boot your device into recovery mode before you run the script and it'll do everything for you
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, and hopefully flipped+read-only a bit after that
<slangasek> indeed
<stgraber> any questions? (4min left to the meeting)
<slangasek> stgraber, barry: very exciting stuff, thanks for giving us a glimpse into your progress
<barry> np!
<stokachu> when can i start playing candy crush :)
 * stokachu hides
<stgraber> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ok - anything else we should cover today?  (sorry, I should probably have asked for this /before/ going deep on system images)
<slangasek> thanks to everyone who updated their work item status today
<slangasek> and if you haven't already done so, please do :)
<cjwatson> When Canonistack stops hating me I should be able to finish off my last couple
<slangasek> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-13.06.html is still looking a bit unrealistic vs. the trendline... though better than yesterday
<cjwatson> We should get the trendlines updated to reflect a realistic start point, mind
<slangasek> that too :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 26 16:02:16 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-26-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-26-15.01.html
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks
<barry> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-06-27
<Oranger> mhall119: No meeting today ?
<balloons> Oranger, there you are :-)
<balloons> come into #ubuntu-touch-meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-06-30
<NikTh> Hello. I have a question about Ubuntu membership. I've searched the Web but didn't find an official answer.
<NikTh> What happens when an Ubuntu Membership expires ? Must re-apply or just click something and you can renew the membership by yourself ? (as happens in regular teams)
<Noskcaj> NikTh, wrong channel. But you just click a button saying you want to stay a member
<NikTh> Noskcaj: Sorry  about the  channel mistake, but thanks for your clear answer :)
<AlanBell> hi all
<funkyHat> Hello hello
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jun 30 18:01:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> hi, who is here for the IRC team meeting?
 * funkyHat 
<AlanBell> I know Tm_T is here . . .
<Tm_T> partly atleast (:
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20130526 minutes of last meeting
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
<AlanBell> I was a bit rubbish with my action, haven't done it yet
<AlanBell> that was compiling a list of messages the bots produce and what should be done about them
<AlanBell> I will have a crack at it this week
<AlanBell> also, I failed to follow up on the email vote for m4v membership /o\
<AlanBell> so lets fix that now . . .
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~m4v is the launchpad page
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/m4v is the wiki page
<AlanBell> and we all know m4v and discussed last meeting as well
<AlanBell> so . . . .
<funkyHat> Ok
<Tm_T> +1
<funkyHat> +1
<AlanBell> #voters AlanBell funkyHat Pici Tm_T topyli
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: topyli
<meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Pici Tm_T funkyHat topyli
<funkyHat> +1
<AlanBell> #vote award membership to m4v
<meetingology> Please vote on: award membership to m4v
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<funkyHat> boh!
<AlanBell> now you can vote :)
<funkyHat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from funkyHat
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> Tm_T: you need to revote to be counted
<Tm_T> nice lag, sorry
<Tm_T> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Tm_T
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: award membership to m4v
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> don't think we have any
<AlanBell> and no pending emails
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> we need to do another review of expired members, I should file a bug for that
<AlanBell> Unit193 pointed out the script was returning a few results to review, I went through some of them but there is a bit of a list to sort out
<AlanBell> but other than that, no current bugs filed
<AlanBell> #topic Replace floodbot kick+ban behaviour for webchat users who flood - tsimpson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Replace floodbot kick+ban behaviour for webchat users who flood - tsimpson
<AlanBell> we had a chat on this topic last meeting, not sure if any progress has been made since then, or if it is still an active proposal
<AlanBell> I was going to mail the list about it, I will do that after this meeting
<Tm_T>  didn't freenode do some changes related to webchat?
<AlanBell> Tm_T: yeah, which might mean some of the ban behaviour could change
<Tm_T> ml good, yes
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Busines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Busines
<AlanBell> anyone have any comments or questions?
<AlanBell> ok, thanks everyone o/
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jun 30 18:21:11 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-30-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-30-18.01.html
<Tm_T> thanks
<funkyHat> Thanks!
<Pici> \o
<Pici> uh
<IdleOne> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-06-23
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> huh, the bot seems dead
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<jdstrand> Rohan Garg (rohangarg) provided debdiffs for saucy and trusty for kde4libs (LP: #1332064). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1332064 in kde4libs (Ubuntu Trusty) "[CVE-2014-3494] KMail/KIO POP3 SSL MITM Flaw" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332064
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> fyi, I'm off all next week
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I'm helping test/coordinate the apparmor landing with mdeslaur today. I expect it to be pushed to the archive in a little while
<mdeslaur> \o/
<tyhicks> nice
<jdstrand> I will be working on the ofono profiles bug this week, and any other June work items I can get to
<jdstrand> I have a pending update I will hopefully get out later today
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I just pushed out a few updates
<mdeslaur> and am currently testing the apparmor and other packages that will get published
<mdeslaur> I plan on taking a bite out of the long list of accumulating CVEs
<mdeslaur> tomorrow, I'm on national holiday
<mdeslaur> and I also have to write a wiki page about click store package signing
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<tyhicks> so you're planning on uploading the new apparmor and then splitting for day?? ;)
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: SUCKS TO BE YOU!
<mdeslaur> :)
<sbeattie> I'm still working on pie by default for gcc/amd64.
<tyhicks> heh :)
<sbeattie> (mdeslaur: heh)
<jjohansen1> tyhicks: don't be surprised if he is sick tomorrow
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: any progress there?
<sbeattie> One thing I discovered is that if an otherwise dynamically linked binary includes a libxxx.a, the object files in that .a file need to be compiled with -fPIE as well, which isn't a big deal when they're in the same package, but could introduce an ordering issue for situations where they're in different source packages.
<sarnold> interesting, I hadn't heard that before.
<sbeattie> (the apparmor parser does this, but since it's just internal to the source, it's not a big deal)
<sbeattie> sarnold: yeah. I get a link time failure if they're not.
<sbeattie> anyway. Other things for this week: I need to look at a mod_apparmor issue â I missed a note in the 2.2 -> 2.4 transition about the authentication hooks changing, which is causing some of people's problems with the HANDLING_UNTRUSTED_INPUT hat, I think
<sbeattie> and other misc apparmor stuff.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm wanting to wrap up my rtm work items this week
<tyhicks> "review trust session and lp:trust-store for pid/APP_ID/apparmor/etc" has turned into a design discussion
<tyhicks> and "verify kernel security features in phablet image (besides ufw and apparmor)" just needs a little bit of testing today before I send out the kernel config patches
<tyhicks> I had done one swoop at verifying the kernel security features and enabled everything that we test for in QRT, but there's other things that we don't test for
<tyhicks> things that we're interested in but are not enabled in all of the touch kernels
<tyhicks> (like ecryptfs)
<tyhicks> so I'll add those config tests to QRT after I send out the patches
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks for that.
<tyhicks> np
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen1: you're up
<jdstrand> tyhicks: design discussion?
<jjohansen1> I'm working on my rtm WIs this week
<jdstrand> tyhicks: does that mean you are blocked?
<jjohansen1> I also have the latest revision for the touch kernels to land this week, as soon as the new userspace lands
<jjohansen1> and I am off tuesday
<jdstrand> jjohansen1: that should land today. does that mean as soon as it lands you can do the pull request?
<jjohansen1> rtm WIs == apparmor extended mediation of unix sockets
<jjohansen1> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> re your rtm work items-- would it help if tyhicks or sbeattie helped you if they put aside non-rtm work items?
<jdstrand> if so, we can take that offline (just putting it out there)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: no, I'm not blocked - my WI was to review the code and I guess that is technically done
<tyhicks> jdstrand: now it has turned into a discussion on how to improve things
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I see. update the work item as you see fit and continue guiding them as necessary :) thanks for taking that on
<jjohansen1> that is it for me sarnold you are up
<jdstrand> jjohansen1: did you see my question about help?
<jjohansen1> jdstrand: not yet but soon, I'll poke them later in the week, wednesday, thursday,
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, there's an openssl098 community update I'm still working on from last week, I'm still working on the qrt test-django script, and I'm hopeful for some apparmor patch reviews to distract me from the test-django work :)
<jjohansen1> jdstrand: don't worry I'll poke you to join the party too
<jdstrand> jjohansen1: ok, thanks
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> so, bug 1312082 is finished. I'm just waiting on something olivier is finishing before I merge it, so that I don't break his work
<ubottu> bug 1312082 in Oxide "Stop using deprecated compositing paths" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312082
<chrisccoulson> i've got through some of my review queue :)
<chrisccoulson> today, I started on bug 1332754, which should hopefully improve our memory usage a bit
<ubottu> bug 1332754 in Oxide "Evict frames for hidden webviews" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332754
<chrisccoulson> other than that, it's business as usual :)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> sarnold: there were some other reviews that are listed as work items that we talked about last week-- did you work on those, where are they prioritized for you?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: re 1312082> nice!
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: seems like the media-hub/oxide integration is progressing well (which is part of your reviews I think)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand, tyhicks, jjohansen1, chrisccoulson, sarnold, sbeattie: we're nearing the end of june. Please look at your assigned work items, and if anything is marked may or june and you won't be done in the next week, please let me know
<tyhicks> ack
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: okay
<sarnold> jdstrand: I'd really like to be out from underneath this test-django script, so I was hoping to get it done. I'm sick of it. :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: sure. how close are you?
<sarnold> jdstrand: it feels like another day or two
<sarnold> mdeslaur: ack
<jdstrand> ok, cool
<jdstrand> I'm going to proceed-- chrisccoulson feel free to interrupt to answer my question whenever
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/merkaartor.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libipc-pubsub-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gridengine.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/autotrace.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gajim.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks, jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen1> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-06-24
<smoser> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<lutostag> o/
<coreycb> o/
<jamespage> o/
<rharper> o/
<lutostag> alright, lets go
<lutostag> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<lutostag> and no bot..., anyways
<lutostag> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<beisner> o/
<lutostag> just refresh bug status page, done
<lutostag> #topic Utopic Development
<lutostag> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<lutostag> Feature Definition Freeze was last Thursday, I think gaughen got them all approved; we'll look at BPs in a bit
<smoser> We will have an alpha-1 for cloud images.
<smoser> server will not have a official cloud image.
<gaughen> lutostag, yup blueprints are approved. there may be one outstanding.
<gaughen> o/
<lutostag> yay, alpha-1 is next and smoser says were good :)
<lutostag> #subtopic Release Bugs
<lutostag> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<lutostag> One high
<lutostag> clamav http://launchpad.net/bugs/1317587
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1317587 in clamav (Ubuntu Utopic) "ClamAV 0.98.1 is Outdated" [High,In progress]
<lutostag> looks like in progress, but last comment was 5-10
<lutostag> looks like it needs a pkg sync from debian
<jamespage> lutostag, I think that's done
<jamespage>  clamav | 0.98.4+dfsg-1                      | utopic            | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el
<lutostag> cool, wanna close that one out jamespage ?
<jamespage> lutostag, nah - ScottK looks to be on it and it needs multiple SRU's - lets leave it to him
<lutostag> alright, fun for him :)
<jamespage> (thanks ScottK)
<lutostag> #subtopic Blueprints
<lutostag> subtopic Blueprints
<lutostag> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<lutostag> now that all of these are accepted, I guess its time to get pumping on them
<lutostag> anything else to say about these?
<lutostag> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<lutostag> caribou: anything for us?
<caribou> nothing for this week
<lutostag> alright, thanks!
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<lutostag> psivaa: ?
<lutostag> guess not
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Hi, I have nothing new
<sforshee> me neither
<lutostag> cool, you got your MP from last week sorted?
<smb> Err no, mostly to it not being highest prio
<psivaa> lutostag: sorry, just was afk, nothing much from the smoke testing side.
<smb> I also want to try to whether PVM can be supported
<lutostag> smb: alright, just bugging you :)
<smb> Thank you! :)
<lutostag> psivaa: cool, thanks
<lutostag> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<lutostag> anything coming up? nothing I know about
<hallyn> psivaa: have you made progress with using events to detect rebooted installing images for smoke testing?
<psivaa> hallyn: not really, sorry. dint have luck in finding a proper machine to test the fix.
<hallyn> ok
<psivaa> hallyn: will do in a couple of days
<lutostag> #topic Open Discussion
<lutostag> anything else?
<lutostag> ...
<lutostag> .
<lutostag> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<lutostag> Next meeting: +7days
<lutostag> #endmeeting
<gnuoy> thanks lutostag
<rharper> lutostag: thanks!
<caribou> thanks lutostag
<lutostag> rharper: think you're up next
<lutostag> :)
<rharper> lutostag: =)
<rharper> assuming you get those notes out
<lutostag> thanks everyone
<lutostag> I'm not gonna forget, the cost is too high
<rharper> hehe
<jamespage> thanks lutostag
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> \o
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased our Utopic kernel "unstable" branch to v3.16-rc2.  We
<ogasawara> are preparing initial packages and performing some test builds and DKMS
<ogasawara> package testing.  I do not anticipate a v3.16 based upload until it has
<ogasawara> undergone some additional widespread baking and testing.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Jun 26 - Alpha 1 (2 days away)
<ogasawara> Fri Jun 27 - Kernel Freeze for 12.04.5 and 14.04.1 (3 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Jul 31 - Alpha 2 (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (May. 6):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 08-Jun through 28-Jun
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          06-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 08-Jun - 14-Jun   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 15-Jun - 21-Jun   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 22-Jun - 28-Jun   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> 14.04.1 cycle: 29-Jun through 07-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 29-Jun - 05-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Jul - 12-Jul   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 13-Jul - 19-Jul   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> 20-Jul - 24-Jul   Release prep
<bjf>          24-Jul   14.04.1 Release [1]
<bjf>          07-Aug   12.04.5 Release [2]
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> [1] This will be the very last kernels for lts-backport-quantal, lts-backport-raring,
<bjf>     and lts-backport-saucy.
<bjf>  
<bjf> [2] This will be the lts-backport-trusty kernel as the default in the precise point
<bjf>     release iso.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-06-26
<mihir> hey popey :)
 * popey points mihir at #ubuntu-touch-meeting â»
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<robru> heya
<mvo_> hi
<caribou> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<slangasek> oh no, are we botless?
<slangasek> ok, mime meeting it is
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<xnox> mime, lol )
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> How will we get the shuffeled order then?!
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<bdmurray> xnox: not lol, laugh silently
<slangasek> bhuey barry robru stgraber slangasek doko jodh caribou sil2100 mvo infinity bdmurray xnox cjwatson
<slangasek> sil2100: I can still shuffle without a bot
<slangasek> bhuey: hi, you get to lead us in today :)
<xnox> bdmurray: xnox shudders his shoulders a little bit
<xnox> slangasek: the bot actually executes commands? i always thought you copy & paste the results in =)
<sil2100> I wonder ;)
<bhuey> slangasek: not quite ready yet
<barry> slangasek: i can jump in
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> barry: go ahead
<barry> tons of debian/ubuntu python work filling out py3 support for "coverage service" development work.
<barry> debian: nose-exclude 0.2.0-3, python-chameleon 2.16-2, python-pyramid 1.5.1+dfsg-1, tox 1.7.1-3, zope.component 4.2.1-1, zope.configuration 4.0.3-1, zope.deprecation 4.1.1-2, zope.event 4.0.3-1, zope.hookable 4.0.4-1, 4.0.4-2, zope.i18nmessageid 4.0.3-1, zope.interface 4.1.1-1, zope.location 4.0.3-1, zope.proxy 4.1.4-1, zope.schema 4.4.1-1, zope.security 4.0.1-1, zope.testing 4.1.3-1.
<barry> syncpackage: cherrypy, zope.proxy, ope.schema, zope.testrunner
<barry> debian bug #752679 (python-persistent)
<ubottu> Debian bug 752679 in wnpp "ITP: python-persistent -- generic persistence implementation for Python" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/752679
<barry> phone: another dialer-app py3 ap update.  LP: #1274131, LP: #1280169. reviewed two of ~jani's system-image branches (comments given, needs fixing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1274131 in ubuntu-download-manager "UpdatePaused signal always returns percentage=0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274131
<barry> other: choo choo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1280169 in Ubuntu system image "Should provide an API to query the timestamp of the most recent CheckForUpdates" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280169
<barry> done
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> one sec
<robru> * Lost most of tuesday wrestling with juju but stayed online until 11PM to make up the hours
<robru> * Various landings as usual
<robru> * Made a ton of progress on the nonfunctional db frontend thing
<robru>  - added ability to have more than one line per chart
<robru>  - hooked up charts to live db data
<robru>  - programmed in some fancy animations
<robru>  - cleaned up graph display (units on axes, etc)
<robru>  - fixed race condition between AJAX calls
<robru>  - massive refactoring / cleanup of the code
<robru> * put together SRUs for the four google webapps, whose authentication scheme changed out from under us
<robru> * submitted a branch to fix bug #1333184 (my citrain shell tool can't purge silos properly)
<robru> done
<ubottu> bug 1333184 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "`citrain host-upgrade` removes the PPA after installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1333184
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Some LXC 1.1.0~alpha1 prep work (planned for next week).
<stgraber>  - Added support for building OpenSUSE images to LXC CI.
<stgraber>  - Added arm64 support to LXC CI (still a bit flaky).
<stgraber>  - Reworked the default container configs, merging most of them into a new
<stgraber>    common one which is shared by all distros.
<stgraber>  - Some more work on the new LXC command line tool (testsuite integration, some
<stgraber>    helper functions and the basis of our network layer).
<stgraber>  - Wrote scripts, packaged and sent instructions on how to run Unity8 under LXC
<stgraber>    to the few people who may fix the remaining bugs.
<stgraber>    (code is at lp:~stgraber/+junk/unity8-lxc)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - Switched system-image over to the new signing keyring (but not the new
<stgraber>    signing key yet).
<stgraber>  - SRU queue reviews.
<stgraber>  - Landing team work.
<stgraber>  - Alpha-1
<stgraber>  - Meeting on Ubuntu Touch image versioning.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> bhuey: you ready to jump in yet?
<xnox> robru: "Made a ton of progress on the nonfunctional db frontend thing" is that about ci-train, ci-airline, error-tracker or something else? somehow I can see how that can apply to any one of them, I'm just not familiar what you are currently working on =))))
<cjwatson> xnox: we talked about it in last week's meeting fwiw
<slangasek>  * missed last week's meeting due to partner meeting off site
<slangasek>  * a lot of time spent on partner archive packages for TI this week... nearly done now
<slangasek>  * discussions around the toolchain regressions of last week, and how to prevent going forward
<xnox> cjwatson: ok, i'll read up those notes.
<slangasek>  * discussions with the landing team about how to provide a more "standard interface" on IRC
<slangasek>  * working with bdmurray and Linaro on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdb/+bug/1325503
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1325503 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb reports 'corrupt stack' on armhf without symbols" [Critical,Confirmed]
<slangasek>  * off Thu/Fri next week for 4th of July weekend
<slangasek> (done)
<robru> xnox, it's the newest module within ci-airline, shows historical test results for things like app startup speed, bootchart data, etc
<xnox> robru: ah, cool!
<slangasek> and doko is off this afternoon
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - async support:
<jodh>     - Ongoing testing and debugging.
<jodh>     - Continuing work with xnox. A number of discussions on how to
<jodh>       simplify the current design.
<jodh>     - Wrote preliminary test code to force both possibilities in the
<jodh>       inherant race such that we can be assured of correct behaviour in
<jodh>       all circumstances.
<jodh> ã 
<robru> xnox, yeah it's pretty slick, our deadline is friday, can't wait for it to go live so i can show that off
<caribou> think I'm next:
<caribou> * Misc tests on Openstack deployment
<caribou> * More work on nova-cloud-controller charm fix
<caribou> * Work on Qemu live migration issue
<caribou> * More work on backport of latest CVE to openssl 0.9.8 for precise
<caribou> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<bhuey> ready...
<sil2100> - Landing team work, pushing upstreams for regression fixes
<sil2100> - Work on +1 Maintenance
<sil2100>   * Debian merge opal for libav10 transition
<sil2100>   * Started work on mplayer
<sil2100> - Packaging review and release of libqofono package from Ken
<sil2100>   * Copyright cleanup
<sil2100>   * Multiarch support added
<sil2100>   * Look into running tests on build
<sil2100> - CI Train bot maintenance
<sil2100> - CI Train additions/fixes:
<sil2100>   * Bail out on unapproved branches
<sil2100>   * Enhancements to changelog entries generation (formatting)
<sil2100> - Help with trust-store NEW'ing
<sil2100> - Code review for ubuntu-keyboard regression fix
<sil2100> done
<mvo_> bhuey: want to go now?
<bhuey> yes
<mvo_> go ahead then :)
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -resolved all icedtea patch issues for icedtea 7u55~pre7+f990f8b724ad that included two patches reversing an NX memory mapping wor
<bhuey> k around
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -resolved a number of patch issues for 7u60-2.5.0 that included pulseaudio related patches since that was removed from the Java APIit seems.
<bhuey> -pushed all openjdk|icedtea changes finally to a bzr branch, bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bill-huey/openjdk/openjdk7/
<bhuey> -multiple hunks were rejected because it was upstreamed already, refreshed patches against Makefile.am, acinlucdes.am
<bhuey> Next week
<bhuey> -TCK
<bhuey> done
<bhuey> ...
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_>   #1274466 SRU to precise (cachedb on-disk format changed)
<mvo_>   Add abi break in apt-inst1.6, look into lfs support
<mvo_>   Fix "apt install /foo/bar.deb" (i.e. abspath)
<mvo_>   Work on debian/experimental branch to get it ready for utopic
<mvo_>   Work on anoying update failure
<mvo_> click:
<mvo_>   Address review comments for lp:~mvo/click/chroot-tests
<mvo_>   Some talk with asac, filed #1334629 and #1334631
<mvo_>   lp:~mvo/click/dont-crash-for-empty-db
<mvo_>   lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove updated and test written
<mvo_>   Qa work
<mvo_>   Undust/update some merge-proposals
<mvo_>   Build lp:~mvo/+junk/ubuntu-app-cli for click PATH handling
<mvo_>   (but but how to handle collisions?!?)
<mvo_>   Played with hooks while thinking about integration tests for them and played
<mvo_>   with systemd lp:~mvo/+junk/ubuntu-app-daemon support
<mvo_> hwe:
<mvo_>   Fix i18n issue, use localized dates
<mvo_>   Fix bug in update-support-status with french locale
<mvo_>   Review/sponsor #1328266 uploads
<mvo_>   Upload update-manger/update-notifier to precise-proposed (needs approval!)
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_>   Exercise sdk and create fastmail.fm webapp
<mvo_>   find/fix two bugs in the webapp template
<mvo_>   upload new qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
<mvo_>   Fix autopkgtest pep8 failure in ubuntu-release-upgrader, update-manager
<mvo_>   Review/sponsor netcf
<mvo_> (done)
<bdmurray> mvo_: I'll look at your precise-proposed upload today
<mvo_> thanks \o/
<mvo_> its unfortunately relatively invasive, but thats the nature of the change
<bdmurray> slangasek: infinity is out, correct?
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes - you're next
<bdmurray> worked with thedac to resolve daisy not accepting crashes anymore (6/23)
<bdmurray> discussion with thedac regarding earlier issue with cassandra, gunicorn and haproxy
<bdmurray> review of oncall playbook for thedac
<bdmurray> updated and tested oops-repository and daisy with connection pool variables for pool_size and max_overflow
<bdmurray> updated bug 1331212 with information regarding retracing index
<bdmurray> irc discussion with seb128 regarding unretraced things due to backlog
<bdmurray> updated bug 1325503 with more details and emailed coworkers about it
<bdmurray> irc discussion with slangasek and maximk regarding bug 1325503
<bdmurray> collected core files stuck in swift to find unity crashes to retrace with different gdbs
<ubottu> bug 1331212 in Daisy "more core files in swift than in the retracing queue" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331212
<ubottu> bug 1325503 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb reports 'corrupt stack' on armhf without symbols" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325503
<bdmurray> updated bug 1328180 regarding retracing with utopic gdb
<bdmurray> backported apport retracing versions capabilities to precise for canonistack
<ubottu> bug 1328180 in apport (Ubuntu) "retraces of unity missing information" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328180
<bdmurray> worked on building dpkg comparator for cassandra 2.0.3
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the phased-updater email creation
<bdmurray> override of phased-updater found regressions that have different pkg versions in newcassandra
<bdmurray> research into bug 1332925 and whoopsie's status on touch
<ubottu> bug 1332925 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "crash reports are not being uploaded automatically" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332925
<bdmurray> irc discussion with tedg regarding fields whoopsie uploads
<bdmurray> updated whoopsie apport package hook to gather more information
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1334055 regarding retracer message
<ubottu> bug 1334055 in apport (Ubuntu) "retracer message regarding failed to retrace can be misleading" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334055
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> bdmurray: dpkg comparator> successfully built yet, or still hitting packaging issues?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I'm stuck at a different point now, cassandra API changes
<slangasek> ok
<bdmurray> oh, and I'm out tomorrow
<xnox> bah, me!
<slangasek> xnox:
<slangasek> yes :)
<xnox> * libav10 transition, helped to push a few packages along
<xnox> * resolved click chroot creation failure with qt5sensors packaging
<xnox>   name change in
<xnox> * resolve Qt4 themeing issues in desktop user session, by moving
<xnox>   deprecated desktop id to be set earlier in the session
<xnox>   startup. (Compiz was no longer inheriting the variable from
<xnox>   gnome-session as it's managed by an upstart job, also e.g. Qt4 apps
<xnox>   launched from an indicator had wrong style theme applied)
<xnox> * ongoing launchpadlib python3 porting effors, sent status update to
<xnox>   barry & friends.
<xnox> * tracked down syslinux regression causes, and pass it over for
<xnox>   cjwatson to implement proposed work-arounds in the debian cdimage
<xnox>   building code.
<xnox> * working with jodh on resolving state transition race in the current
<xnox>   lp:upstart (async spawn) & troubleshooting emulator boot error
<xnox> * todo/future: desktop image smoke-testing is still failing, with
<xnox>   fixed ubiquity & syslinux it does boot, however it fails to reboot
<xnox>   at the end of the installation, hanging at unmounting (casper/loop?)
<xnox>   filesystem.
<xnox> ..
<barry> xnox: yep, thanks.  it's on my todo list to respond and review
<xnox> "s/name change in/name change./" <--- miss-edited
<xnox> barry: wgrant covered most of them at this point.
<cjwatson> livefs-in-LP:
<cjwatson>  - Deployed to production!  Worked with APAC webops to get it finished off, so some strange effects on my sleep schedule.
<cjwatson>  - Sorting out a few loose ends that affected specific livefs types (e.g. bug 1325281, bug 1334616).  Mostly done now.  Still need a launchpad-buildd deployment to fix Edubuntu/i386.
<barry> xnox: okie dokie!
<ubottu> bug 1325281 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Trusty) "Cannot handle more than one kernel for generic (3.13.0-24-generic 3.13.0-27-generic)!" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325281
<ubottu> bug 1334616 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Try harder to make sure that kernel output is world-readable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334616
<cjwatson> First pass at fixing gfxboot regressions (bug 1327831).
<ubottu> bug 1327831 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "No boot screen starting from 20140602.1" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1327831
<cjwatson> click 0.4.27 and 0.4.28 releases.
<cjwatson> Worked on the libav 10 transition.  Main thing now is sorting out what to do with packages that depend on mencoder.
<cjwatson> Backported d-i HTTPS support to precise (bug 833994, bug 1135163, bug 1172101).
<xnox> barry: was lazr.authentication on your list at all for python3 porting and/or uploading into the archive, or not at all?
<cjwatson> Reviewed various partner uploads.
<ubottu> bug 833994 in cobbler-enlist (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833994
<ubottu> bug 1135163 in debootstrap (Ubuntu Precise) "d-i can't install against an https mirror" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1135163
<cjwatson> Working on some ppc64el install/boot escalations.
<ubottu> bug 1172101 in wget (Ubuntu Precise) "wget-udeb should install to /usr/bin/wget instead of /usr/bin/wget.gnu" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172101
<cjwatson> ..
<barry> xnox: at this point, only if it helps move things along.
<xnox> barry: i guess not then. no worries, it hasn't been needed in the archive yet at all.
 * barry nods
<slangasek> cjwatson: how did the click airline test go?
<cjwatson> Hasn't yet
<stgraber> cjwatson: Forgot to say so earlier when things actually landed but congrats on finally getting livefs builds in LP in production! \o/
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> I've exchanged some mail with fginther but they're still fixing some prodstack-specific issues
<cjwatson> stgraber: thanks :)
<slangasek> yes, well done
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<slangasek> anything else people wanted to share today?
<xnox> livefs builds in LP is amazing =)
<cjwatson> wait until it works in scalingstack :)
<slangasek> fwiw, the gdb bug that bdmurray and I mentioned is a blocker for us getting useful crash reports from the phone right now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdb/+bug/1325503
<cjwatson> (scalingstack's really close now, by the looks of things)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1325503 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb reports 'corrupt stack' on armhf without symbols" [Critical,Confirmed]
<xnox> cjwatson: then it would be supersonic =) scalingstack should be named Concorde =)
<slangasek> if anyone has some spare cycles, and some insights on what to do with this, feel free to bring a fresh set of eyeballs to it
<cjwatson> they've sorted out the networking issues, it's now pretty close to production performance, just one or two small glitches - might even be more reliable than current PPAs at this point
<barry> sounds exciting!
<stgraber> https://staging.launchpad.net/+builders
<stgraber> actually, https://staging.launchpad.net/builders
<slangasek> nice
<xnox> stgraber: that's fast =) refreshing a few times shows up as packages build etc.
<stgraber> looks like they're almost done building the 15k packages or so that wgrant copied to his PPA :)
<xnox> stgraber: cleaning is the bottlenet?! =) i guess when it crunches through packages like sunflower seeds it would be.
<stgraber> xnox: yes, for most builds cleaning takes longer than the actual build :)
<xnox> awesome!
<slangasek> really?  what kind of cleaning is that, and should we replace the cleaning step with "nuke VM from orbit"? ;)
<cjwatson> There are some reset bottlenecks in openstack
<slangasek> ah
<cjwatson> It's not guest-side cleaning
<stgraber> I suspect we are already doing the nuke VM from orbit thing but it takes a while for the new one to come online with working networking, ...
<cjwatson> Right, William had to implement a new reset protocol in Launchpad to cope with the different constraints
<cjwatson> But it seems to be behaving itself pretty well now
<cjwatson> manage-builders in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools has some new logic to report on stals
<cjwatson> *stalls
<xnox> slangasek: i wonder if it matters at all, cause we can overprovision with openstack to get the maximum throughput, even with cleaning delays.
<cjwatson> It shouldn't matter at this point
<xnox> yeah. looks awesome =)
<slangasek> I'm sure it's fixable one way or the other :)
<cjwatson> And the test builds probably aren't representative; IIRC real PPAs spend a disproportionate amount of their time building kernels :P
<cjwatson> *real PPA builders
<cjwatson> Anyway, OT really, just for those interested
<slangasek> ah, any plans to support provisioning ppa builders of different sizes?
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> if that's OT, then I think we may be out of topics?
<cjwatson> I think the plan is to experiment; there should be some support for that
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> thanks, everyone
<mvo_> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks
<xnox> tah
<caribou> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-06-22
<tyhicks> hello
<chrisccoulson> hi
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 22 16:31:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand_> hi!
<mdeslaur> hi!
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Otto Kekaelaeinen (otto) for help on security updates (14.04 and 14.10) for the community supported mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1464895) last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1464895 in mariadb-5.5 (Ubuntu) "CVE-2015-3152: MySQL SSL/TLS downgrade vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464895
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand_> I'm working with tyhicks on work planning/tracking
<jdstrand> I'm also working on two embargoed issues
<jdstrand> I hope to also get back to system-image update procedures
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm working on updates
<mdeslaur> I need to resping some of the python2.7 updates I worked on last week because I missed a CVE
<mdeslaur> and will test them and publish them this week
<mdeslaur> I also have some tomcat updates that are ready for testing
<mdeslaur> besides that, I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
<mdeslaur> and this week is a short week for me because of a national holiday on wednesday
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on security bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm also revisiting my gcc-pie patches
<sbeattie> I'm also looking at some of the outstanding apparmor patches to try to release 2.10
<sbeattie> and if no one gets to it before me, I'll verify the trusty apparmor sru.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> I'll be working on an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> publishing patch updates this afternoon
<tyhicks> some work tracking improvements
<tyhicks> and AppArmor userspace support for kernel keyring mediation
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> Its a short week for me (off Tuesday and Wednesday).
<jjohansen> I will be finishing up my dconf review and doing what ever sync is needed there to unblock there
<jjohansen> I have some revision to do on a couple of my outstanding patches for 2.10, the rest are going to hit the time out and I will just commit them (hint, hint)
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> I'll do what I can to help get 2.10 out of the door this week
<jjohansen> and then get back to upstreaming work
<tyhicks> I'll pitch in on AppArmor 2.10 patch review this week, as well
<jjohansen> tyhicks: thanks
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, I'll be working on finishing the serverstack braindump I started last week, working on the pcc64-diag-related MIRs, and perhaps sneaking an apparmor patch review or two along the way
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> I've got an embargoed update this week
<chrisccoulson> I shall also be spending some time getting our firefox extension through Mozilla's review process
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual and getting some more reviews done
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/parcimonie.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-restkit.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maven.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libapache2-mod-nss.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/putty.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 22 16:50:58 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-22-16.31.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-06-23
<creepers> ~im keeoing my dagger
<creepers> im keeping my dagger
<kickinz1> o/
<caribou_> o/
<hallyn_> \o
<coreycb> o/
 * hallyn_ waits 1 more min
<smb> o/
<arges> o/
<arosales> o/
<hallyn_> mornin' everyone
<hallyn_> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 23 16:02:15 2015 UTC.  The chair is hallyn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<hallyn_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> rharper to follow up with canonical sysadmins on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server WPOD
<hallyn_> rharper is not here
<matsubara> o/
 * hallyn_ waits 30 secs
<rharper> o/
<hallyn_> hey!  reviewing actions,
<hallyn_> . rharper to follow up with canonical sysadmins on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server WPOD
<rharper> hallyn_: right, filed ticket and found the correct owner of qa.reqorts who fixed the issue;  if it happens again, we follow up with Brian Murray
<rharper> hallyn_: issue resolved
<hallyn_> rharper: excellent, thanks
<rharper> np
<hallyn_> . smoser update Topic blueprint URLs, if necessary
<hallyn_> uh, is that in the mtg page?
<smoser> well, we've got nothing there.
<hallyn_> yeah
<smoser> so arosales quite reasonably asked 'why'
<hallyn_> ignore?
<smoser> ..
<hallyn_> all right, not deferring
<rharper> need to fill those out ...
<hallyn_> . hallyn to see if rbasak is willing to take this (nginx version in 15.10 and looking to 16.04) to release team, if not hallyn to volunteer, to come up with options
<hallyn_> done, and rbasak sent an email about it this morning - thanks rbasak
<rbasak> I emailed the release team this morning.
<hallyn_> #topic W Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: W Development
<hallyn_> #url https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<hallyn_> alpha1 this week
<hallyn_> about 2 months left unti lfeature freeze
<hallyn_> #url http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<hallyn_> 2 high prio bugs there,
<hallyn_> bug 1461242
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Wily) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
<hallyn_> smoser, any update there?
<hallyn_> i se eit has an assignee
<hallyn_> so let's move on to bug 1453160
<ubottu> bug 1453160 in openstack-manuals "[SRU] missing binaries in Ubuntu heat packages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453160
<hallyn_> is that zul?  jamespage ?
<hallyn_> oh it's fixed,
<jamespage> hallyn_, is in proposed - just needs verification - I'll look
<hallyn_> but that should be 'fix releasd' in wily no?
<hallyn_> thanks jamespage
<hallyn_> smoser: jamespage: anything more to discuss on W devel?
<jamespage> oh actually its done - its just held up in the general foo going on in wily proposed right now
<smoser> hallyn_, no update on that bug. alghouh that is reasonably asy.
<smoser> i'll triage.
<hallyn_> cool thx
<jamespage> hallyn_, oh - I fixed up the junit4 main explosion - but its taking a day or two to ripple through
<jamespage> libreoffice takes time to build apparently
 * hallyn_ doesn't know what that is but is happy with the last part of the sentence :)
<hallyn_> so, moving on/  (in 3, 2,)
<hallyn_> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> nothing here, I'm good
<hallyn_> any qs for caribou ?
<hallyn_> (in 3, 2, )
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> nothing new from me.
<hallyn_> thanks, waiting 30 secs for any qs for you,
<matsubara> sure
<hallyn_> moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> no news either
<hallyn_> qs for kernel team?
<arges> hallyn_: workin on your nested bug fyi
<arges> finally
<hallyn_> arges: oh, cool.  i'm really quite surprised on the range of kernels affected
<hallyn_> s/on/at/
<arges> yea, i'm wondering why i'm not hearing more complaints
<hallyn_> maybe nested isn't as ubiquitous as we thought
<hallyn_> ok, looks like no more qs, so moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arges> yup
<hallyn_> containercon is going on...  any upcoming events?
<hallyn_> (this section seems weird to me, bc events 1 month away are too far, but 1 week away are too late to get travel for)
<hallyn_> (maybe we shoul dhave a 'upcoming CFP' section0
<hallyn_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> hallyn_: +1 on CFP
<smoser> hallyn_, that is a good suggestion.
<hallyn_> in place of upcomign events, or in addition to?
 * smoser doesnt know if there is a tupperware-con coming up or not.
<smoser> in addition to.
<smoser> or along side of
<hallyn_> seems like there are a lot of sections already - i'll consider adding it when updating the meeting page
<hallyn_> any other general discussion items?
<hallyn_> heck, lets' go back a step
<hallyn_> #topic upcoming CFPs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: upcoming CFPs
<hallyn_> anyone have anything they're submitting to in the next week?
<hallyn_> looks like no.  (linuxcon.eu cfp just closed last week)
<hallyn_> ok, closing out then,
<hallyn_> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<hallyn_> That'll be rbasak chairing next Tuesday, June 30 at 16:00 UTC
<hallyn_> thanks everyone
<hallyn_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 16:18:17 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-23-16.02.moin.txt
<kickinz1> Thanks
<caribou> thanks hallyn_
<rharper> hallyn_: thanks!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 23 17:00:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<smb> \Ã
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our wily kernel remains rebased on 4.0.5.  We have cleaned up some
<ogasawara> config discrepancies and will plan to upload to our
<ogasawara> canonical-kernel-team ppa today.  We'll the hopefully get that copied
<ogasawara> out to the archive sometime this week or next.  Also, with 4.1 final
<ogasawara> having just been release, we'll get our master branch in
<ogasawara> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/unstable.git rebased.  We will then plan
<ogasawara> on rebasing Wily to 4.1 and uploading as well.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs June 25 - Alpha 1 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs July 30 - Alpha 2 (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<_bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<_bjf>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<_bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification & Testing
<_bjf>   *  Utopic - Verification & Testing
<_bjf>   *  Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<_bjf>  
<_bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<_bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<_bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<_bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<_bjf>  
<_bjf>  
<_bjf> Schedule:
<_bjf>  
<_bjf> cycle: 13-Jun through 04-Jul
<_bjf> ====================================================================
<_bjf>          12-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<_bjf> 14-Jun - 20-Jun   Kernel prep week.
<_bjf> 21-Jun - 04-Jul   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<_bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 17:05:52 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-23-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-06-25
<pitti> o/
<infinity> \o
<barry> o/
<robru> yo
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 25 15:03:40 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
 * pitti can hear slangasek's dice rolling
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
<slangasek> caribou slangasek stgraber barry cyphermox sil2100 infinity pitti doko robru bdmurray
<slangasek> that's the right list this time, yes? :)
<infinity> Close enough.
<pitti> missing mvo and jhunt :)
<infinity> :(
<pitti> or, rather, :(
<infinity> Yeah, and that xnox guy too.
<infinity> Your list sucks.
<slangasek> heh
<xnox> yo
<infinity> (And cjwatson too...)
<slangasek> caribou: hi, anything for us this morning?
<xnox> pitti: missing mvo?
<xnox> pitti: at least you are in the right team now ;-)
<infinity> xnox: He got reorged.
<ogra_> xnox, snappy ate him
<pitti> xnox: he moved to the snappy team
<xnox> infinity: ogra_: at least pitti is here now ;-)
<xnox> anyway, working with doko to sort out gcc5 in debian
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> haha
<slangasek> xnox: thanks ;)
<slangasek>  * hiring: progress on the Java role,
<slangasek>  * looking into bug #1464442, which seems to be a strange corner case in upstart on livefs
<ubottu> bug 1464442 in upstart (Ubuntu) "installing or upgrading libc6 in Trusty removes all content from /tmp directory" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464442
<slangasek>  * working with cyphermox on grub uefi --removable search path, for snappy personal
<slangasek>  * getting conference travel all sorted out for the summer
<slangasek> stgraber is out this morning
<slangasek>  * sick this week, running at about 3/4 capacity
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> debuntu: zope.interface 4.1.2-1, zope.i18n 4.0.1-1, zope.testing 4.2.2-2
<barry> Python 3.5 transition test rebuild work
<barry> python-pip and related SRUs for trusty; should be all sorted out now
<barry> trying to reboot the DPMT git-dpm conversion work
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> hello!
<cyphermox>  * (before vacation) ppc64-diag update (bug 1459698)
<cyphermox>  * catching up with what I missed
<cyphermox>  * testing multipath-tools 0.5.0
<ubottu> bug 1459698 in ppc64-diag (Ubuntu) "[Ubuntu 15.10] ppc64-diag package update" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459698
<cyphermox>    - it's not collaborating with qemu so far...
<cyphermox>  * bug 1460521: UEFI BootOrder not empty after efibootmgr -B
<cyphermox>  * debugging snappy personal UEFI boot (bug 1468111)
<ubottu> bug 1460521 in HWE Next "UEFI BootOrder is not empty after I removed the last boot entry." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460521
<ubottu> bug 1468111 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "gcdx64.efi should handle grub.cfg in /efi/boot." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468111
<cyphermox>    - related to bug 1097570 which I was already working on
<cyphermox>  * Wednesday: national holiday
<cyphermox>  * discussing NM/wpa update plans for wily with Tony.
<ubottu> bug 1097570 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2-signed can not find the right device when there are two filesystems containing the file '.disk/info'." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097570
<cyphermox>  * more grub fixes:
<cyphermox>    - don't block with 'diskfilter writes are not supported' (bug 1274320)
<ubottu> bug 1274320 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Error: diskfilter writes are not supported" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274320
<cyphermox>    - OsIndicatorsSupported '1f' fix still to land.
<cyphermox>    - arm64-signed images from dannf.
<cyphermox> (done)
<infinity> Oh, sil2100 isn't here.
<infinity> - Managed a few transitions in wily
<infinity> - Wrangled an emergency kernel SRU
<infinity> - Sorted out d-i for the 4.0 kernel (pending in the kteam PPA)
<infinity> - General AA/SRU work
<infinity> - Rebuilt the ppc and ppc64el buildd VMs
<slangasek> no sil2100 it seems, so infinity
<infinity> - Got the 14.04.3 betas building
<infinity> - Helping with Wily Alpha 1
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> (note that Canadians have July 1 off next week)
 * xnox trolls
<xnox>  * onboarding jodh in the team
<xnox> ..
<pitti> systemd: package/test version 221 (held back because of alpha-1), various bug fixes, postinst migration for old mountall fstab options
<pitti> autopkgtest in cloud:
<pitti>  - implement result fetching from swift, teach debci web UI to get along with artifacts in swift (all upstream now)
<pitti>  - some autopkgtest improvements for running in cloud
<pitti>  - create charms for debci web UI and workers, and deployment script; the full thing can now be brought up with a single command
<slangasek> xnox: :P
<pitti>  - sort out various permission/public IP/DNS name/image import issues with IS; http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com now (mostly) works and displays actual results
<pitti> misc: release new vivid -base langpack refresh, for updated ubuntu-docs
<pitti> PLAN:
<pitti>  - discuss/fix rabbit access from britney with IS
<pitti>  - mojo-ify autopkgtest cloud setup (requirement for DevOps)
<pitti>  - land systemd 221
<pitti> â
<cyphermox> pitti: need to be more inventive than â :)
<slangasek> doko:
<robru> no doko tho?
<pitti> cyphermox: sorry, second week only; I still have some leeway for creative EOD markers :)
<pitti> 'T even
<cyphermox> ;)
<slangasek> should be a doko, he's gone yesterday+tomorrow and here today
<pitti> . o o { must be summer time! }
<doko> - two GCC backports upstream
<doko> - updated GCC packages
<doko> - raised severity of GCC issues which are fixable without GCC 5 being the default
<doko> - prepared d-d-a (and u-d GCC mail)
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> tada
<slangasek> robru:
<doko> no, no, I'm here ...
<robru> * CI Train:
<robru>  - Rewrote prepare_silo.py (+553/-714), no feature regressions, bringing test coverage from 10% to 100%
<robru>  - Overall test coverage now up to 98%.
<robru>  - Implemented PPA discovery so that the silo count is no longer hard-coded.
<robru>  - Add '-sa' to source package build to fix barry's system-image uploads.
<robru> * CI Train Charm:
<robru>  - Add ppa.launchpad.net to known_hosts so that dput over sftp works out of the box.
<robru> * Bileto:
<robru>  - Integrated dashboard so that staging & production can have independent ones.
<robru> * Bileto Charm:
<robru>  - rsync silo statuses in from jenkins to support dashboard integration
<robru> * Mojo Spec:
<robru>  - Force storage relations to be set before other relations; fixes race condition
<robru>  - A few iterations on the relation between bileto and jenkins.
<slangasek> +1 for -sa
<bdmurray> robru: done?
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<robru> yeah done
<bdmurray> updated retracer-dependencies to depend on dpkg-dev
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have retracers access launchpad (RT 82159)
<bdmurray> landed overlay PPA retracing support on production retracers
<bdmurray> investigation into overlay PPA retracing success and failure
<bdmurray> research into maliit-framework and qmlscene retracing failures
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal fixing bug LP: #1468154
<bdmurray> review / testing of darkxst's apport ppa branch
<bdmurray> replied to RT regarding removing core files from swift
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1468154 in apport (Ubuntu) "kerneloops-daemon crashes if "linux-image-$(uname -r)" doesn't exist in a apt repository" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468154
<bdmurray> improved phased-updater to better handle errors when communicating with errors
<bdmurray> fixed a traceback with the phased-updater
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<slangasek> great
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<infinity> slangasek: Your upstart bug is disconcerting.
<slangasek> infinity: innit though?
<robru> slangasek: bdmurray: http://imgur.com/Kv1wsa3 is my paste broken? why do people often ask if I'm done?
<infinity> slangasek: cking and smb were noting some fun /bin/sh /proc/fd fork magic in their traces that I've only ever seen when I have my "runlevels run twice on boot" bug, I wonder if that's coincidence, or if it's the same bug somehow.
<slangasek> robru: heh, your dinner was intercepted en route
<robru> slangasek: was that the only line missing?
<cyphermox> yes
<robru> hmm
<cyphermox> robru: was it a notice?
<pitti> robru: we didn't get the "done like dinner" line
<robru> cyphermox: nope, just all one big paste. IRC client put each line as a separate message as far as I can see from my side.
<cyphermox> might be some flooding prevention thing
<robru> grumble
<slangasek> infinity: yep, I'll keep picking away at that upstart bug... good news though, it's not an eglibc bug ;)
<ogra_> it was the "no flooding with dinner in ubuntu channels" rule
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<pitti> does anyone have experience with putting rabbitmq into a cloud and exposing it?
<pitti> (wrt. authentication and stuff)
<robru> pitti: ci team knows all about that
<pitti> robru: ack; I'll ask cprov
<robru> good call
<slangasek> and hey, we have a new sbuild, which means we have a new edk2 package, which means we can have arm64 cloud instances
<pitti> (the standard charm store charm isn't very configurable, and even seems to open up a default guest:guest user remotely..)
<slangasek> as soon as someone wires that up to openstack and shows that it works ;)
<pitti> \o/
<infinity> slangasek: It couldn't possibly have been a glibc bug, but I don't know why I don't immediately blame init everytime someone blame my postinst.  It's pretty much always init's fault. :P
<slangasek> infinity: heh
<pitti> infinity: init's or one of its child processes, yes :)
<infinity> pitti: Well, in the case of glibc's postinst, init specifically, since it reexecs.
<infinity> pitti: Except that I don't currently reexec systemd, cause someone talked me into not doing so back when it was new and non-default.  Should revisit that.
<pitti> "systemctl daemon-reexec" works fine
<infinity> pitti: Indeed.  And tends to happen often enough anyway, since I added that trigger. :P
<pitti> or SIGTERMing pid 1
<infinity> pitti: But still, would be proper to reexec when deps change to get security updates, etc.
<infinity> (As I do for sysv and upstart)
<pitti> *nod*
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 25 15:30:16 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-25-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, I've been looking into some patches we should backport from linus's trunk to get full armv7 insn emulation on armv8 (and another patch I need to write), so we're probably a couple of SRU cycles away from armv7-on-armv8 kvm buildds.
<pitti> thanks!
<infinity> slangasek: But it'll probably be that long until armv8 in scalingstack is happy anyway.
<cyphermox> thanks!
<slangasek> infinity: I thought our arm64 hardware is fully armv7 capable anyway
<cyphermox> robru: missing lines> it's why I copy things just three to five lines at a time, old habit from copy-pasting a humongous Cisco FWSM rule-set that would otherwise crash the device... with fun consequences.
<slangasek> (it's not a requirement of the ABI, but it's an option that some vendors implemented)
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, so, that's the ARM company line.  It's a lie.  v8 is missing a few v7 instructions that are emulated in software on the latest 4.x kernels. :P
<robru> cyphermox: strange though that the only missing line was the one starting with a (. I'll try not using that next time...
<cyphermox> hahah
<infinity> slangasek: And those instructions are missing from every implementation in the wild, AFAIK, including ours.
<slangasek> infinity: are you talking about the pre-thumb2 instructions that we're not using anywhere in the distro?
<infinity> slangasek: Basically, there were some v6 instructions that were marked "deprecated" in v7, and ARM decided that those didn't "count" when claiming v8 was v7 compat.
<slangasek> infinity: also, shouldn't qemu do this instead of the kernel?
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> so they were already deprecated and AIUI we didn't use them... doesn't seem to me that it should have a practical impact
<infinity> slangasek: The SWP instructions.  And sure, qemu would do it if we were doing armv7 qemu on armv8 hosts, but that also doesn't work yet.  We'd be doing v7 chroots in v8 guests.
<slangasek> ok
<infinity> slangasek: Anyhow, yes, probably no practical impact, but I'd rather be fully v7 compat, since we can.
<slangasek> infinity: ok.  but I don't think this should be a blocker for scalingstack
<infinity> slangasek: No, not a blocker for scalingstack PPAs.  Maybe a blocker for ditching kishi, since I don't want any regression potential that we know about in advance.
<infinity> slangasek: Either way, I'll get it sorted soon, so meh.
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-27
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 27 16:31:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> short week-- I'm off friday and next monday is a national holiday
<jdstrand> focusing on snappy this week: right now: dbus-bind interface, finish up the interfaces documentation changes. will work with morphis on testing/sponsoring pulseaudio SRU for disabling recording if snap policy (ie, finish phase 1)
<jdstrand> then go down the list depending on what is unblocked. there are policy updates, verifying content sharing if it is ready (snapd side landed, snap-confine side pending), implementing seccomp arg filtering rules after it lands in xenial
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I have patch piloting to do tomorrow
<mdeslaur> and am currently working on tomcat updates
<mdeslaur> friday I'm off for a national holiday
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm n the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm also on a short week, planning to take this friday off
<sbeattie> I'll have kernel USNs to publish shortly
<sbeattie> I also need to finish sponsoring a kinit update for yofel
<sbeattie> Beyond that, I'll try to to pick up another update or two
<sbeattie> That's probably it for my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: do you know where to watch for PIE failures in doko's upcoming yakkety test rebuild?
<tyhicks> IIRC, he should be kicking that off this week
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: yeah, I'll watch for that, thanks for the reminder.
<tyhicks> I'm still working on the apparmor yakkety upload and xenial SRU but think I'm finally done with all the changes that need to go into yakkety
<tyhicks> I'll then switch to working on seccomp complain mode
<tyhicks> I also have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have some testing to finish up for my upstream pull request (carry over from last week)
<jjohansen> I need to do some new testing on a revised 4.7 rebase
<jjohansen> (of apparmor)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: what deadline are you looking at for fixes that can go into the 16.04.1 kernel?
<jjohansen> and I need to finish up the ipc cross label validation fix for stacking, and of course testing of it
<jjohansen> tyhicks: I still need to coordinate that with the kt
<jjohansen> I would like to be done my fixes this week
<tyhicks> nice
<tyhicks> well, as long as "would like to be ..." to "can be ..." aren't at odds with each other :)
<jjohansen> I need to revise and test the profile name validation stuff, lxc/lxd are actively using a wider set than we were allowing (ie. the checks should have been in place a long time ago)
<jjohansen> thankfully we can support the broader set with out a problem
<tyhicks> good
<jjohansen> oh and I have a short week, I am off Friday to join mdeslaur in celebrating July 1
<mdeslaur> heh
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I gotta admit that sounds like a good idea :)
<sarnold> is it too late for me to also ask for friday off? :)
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I expect to finish the livepatch daemon review tomorrow then resume MIRs
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Chromium to sponsor this week, and I need to publish Oxide
<chrisccoulson> I spent a fair amount of time last week fixing various build issues and got arm64 builds of Oxide in a PPA (https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-052/+packages)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I hope to finally be able to spend time working through https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oxide/+spec/converged-device-support
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up :)
<ratliff> I'm looking into the CVE tracker this week.
<ratliff> I'll be out on Thursday
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: I think you still have a todo to document the flash update process
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, oh yes, that as well
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-tar.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libcommons-collections4-java.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpldapadmin.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libgwenhywfar.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-snapshot.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 27 16:54:39 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-27-16.31.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-28
<cpaelzer> o/ ?
<nacc> o/
<jgrimm> o/ looks like i'm up today
<rharper> o/
<jgrimm> hi folks
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 28 16:01:56 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> howdy
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jgrimm> not seeing anything in the 0621 minutes
<jgrimm> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jgrimm> anyone have anything in general on Y?
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> nacc, how goes php7 in yakkety?
<nacc> jgrimm: excuses is pretty clean now, we're almost 100% in sync or merged, I think
<jgrimm> \o/ great. nicely done
<nacc> jgrimm: i'm sure there are more packages to find, as we go, but the big ones are done
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, could you give folks an update on dpdk plans?
<cpaelzer> sure
<cpaelzer> so we have a few things in flight, the tl;dr is as following
<cpaelzer> several companies joined forces on packaging dpdk as debian package
<cpaelzer> this is under FD.io and inclused at least canonical, brocade, cisco and linaro
<cpaelzer> we will create a package base on dpdk 16.07 for yakkety
<cpaelzer> 16.07 will be released by dpdk in about 210 days
<cpaelzer> 20
<cpaelzer> sorry
<jgrimm> heh
<cpaelzer> openvswitch isn't ready (yet), but we expect them to be soon - which is what I'll test on then
<cpaelzer> the other contributors will test with their respective solution
<cpaelzer> which will make it very well tested from different points of view
<cpaelzer> and finally thanks to jamespage we will likely soon have a git based pre oepnvswitch-2.6
<cpaelzer> which I then will dpdk'ify
<cpaelzer> a lot more down the road, but good for now I tihnk
<jgrimm> cool. thanks cpaelzer
<cpaelzer> also more and more emails about support and some questions on askubunutu
<cpaelzer> last FYI https://wiki.fd.io/view/Deb_dpdk
<jgrimm> thanks
<jgrimm> FYI, docker 1.11.2 is now in Y, and sitting in X-proposed for verification ..  plan would be to update again for docker 1.12.1 upstream
<jgrimm> anything else for Yakkety topic?
<rharper> #link https://wiki.fd.io/view/Deb_dpdk
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> fairly clean
<jgrimm> moving on
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou sent apologies
<jgrimm> thanks rbasak
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<jgrimm> skipping ... again, but will soon have an owner. :)
<rharper> heh
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report. Partially still catching up from two weeks absence.
<jgrimm> great, anyone have any questions for smb?
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> looks like openstack summit has a july 13 deadline for proposals
<jgrimm> anyone else?
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> nada
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> anyone?
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> same time/place next week.   nacc is chair
<nacc> ack
<jgrimm> thank nacc
<jgrimm> and finally...
<jgrimm> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<jgrimm> over to you rbasak
<rbasak> Status updates first please.
<rbasak> cpaelzer: bug 1507681, bug 1495988, bug 1581839, bug 1524526, bug 1590688, bug 1204530, bug 1567540, bug 1046340, bug 1206164, bug 427775, bug 1129696
<ubottu> bug 1507681 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall with 65 arguments kills more than expected" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507681
<ubottu> bug 1495988 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "ProxyErrorOverride leads to slow 404 responses" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495988
<ubottu> bug 1581839 in clamav (Ubuntu Xenial) "package clamdscan 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/clamdscan.1.gz', which is also in package clamav-daemon 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu0.14.04.1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581839
<ubottu> bug 1524526 in dovecot (Ubuntu Xenial) "Crashes with undefined symbol" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524526
<ubottu> bug 1590688 in clamav (Ubuntu) "clamav-daemon doesn't start after installation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590688
<rbasak> bug 1204530, bug 1567540, bug 1046340, bug 1206164, bug 427775, bug 1129696
<ubottu> bug 1204530 in nis (Ubuntu Trusty) "yppasswd results in a segmentation fault when run on clients or server" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204530
<ubottu> bug 1567540 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntpd crashed with SIGABRT (was: ntp crashes everytime the network goes up or down.)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567540
<ubottu> bug 1046340 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntp package missing logcheck exceptions file /etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/ntp" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046340
<ubottu> bug 1206164 in ntp (Ubuntu) "/etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate does not detach correctly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206164
<ubottu> bug 427775 in ntp (Ubuntu Trusty) "ntpdate.dhcp always ignored" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427775
<rbasak> bug 1129696
<ubottu> bug 1129696 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Cannot set config file in /etc/default/ntp" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1129696
<rbasak> I guess ubottu has a limit!
<rbasak> jgrimm: bug 1397250
<ubottu> bug 1397250 in libnss-ldap (Ubuntu) "SIGPIPE not caught in do_atfork_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397250
<rbasak> nacc: bug 1553563, bug 1570923
<ubottu> bug 1553563 in bacula (Ubuntu) "bconsole to Bacula Director fails with authorization problem message" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553563
<ubottu> bug 1570923 in bacula (Ubuntu Xenial) "bacula-dir won't start with "undefined symbol: mysql_init"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570923
<rbasak> rharper: bug 1472639, bug 1585771
<ubottu> bug 1472639 in openldap (Ubuntu) "apparmor profile denied for kerberos: /run/.heim_org.h5l.kcm-socket" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472639
<ubottu> bug 1585771 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Xenial) "Automatic security upgrades are always enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585771
<rbasak> I had bug 869017: no progress. I've been focusing on sponsoring others for a few days now.
<ubottu> bug 869017 in kbd (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu server enables screenblanking, concealing crashdumps (DPMS is not used)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869017
<rbasak> magicalChicken: bug 1394403, bug 1511222, bug 1519120, bug 1296835, bug 1582767
<ubottu> bug 1394403 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "RewriteRule of "^$" is broken" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394403
<rbasak> magicalChicken: bug 1534538
<ubottu> bug 1511222 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Incorrect trusted proxy match test in mod_remoteip" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511222
<ubottu> bug 1519120 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager VLAN support fails unless vlan package is manually installed" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519120
<ubottu> bug 1296835 in pptpd (Ubuntu Trusty) "status_of_proc lacks a "-p" in /etc/init.d/pptpd" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296835
<ubottu> bug 1582767 in ntp (Ubuntu) "apparmor permissions missing for winbind" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582767
<ubottu> bug 1534538 in apache2 (Ubuntu) " AliasMatch directive does not accept long URI" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534538
<rbasak> magicalChicken: also logwatch bugs generally
<jgrimm> rbasak, no progress. i need to recreate bug still (was unexpectedly out for several days)
<rbasak> OK. Go :)
<cpaelzer> bug 1507681 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall with 65 arguments kills more than expected" [Medium,Fix committed]
<ubottu> bug 1507681 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall with 65 arguments kills more than expected" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507681
<cpaelzer> 1507681:     Waited in proposed for the reporter to verify, but didn't happen - extended the test a bit and done by myself to unblock migration
<cpaelzer> 1507681:     Released to Updates as of today
<cpaelzer> bug 1581839 in clamav (Ubuntu Xenial) "package clamdscan 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/clamdscan.1.gz', which is also in package clamav-daemon 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu0.14.04.1" [High,Fix committed]
<ubottu> bug 1581839 in clamav (Ubuntu Xenial) "package clamdscan 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/clamdscan.1.gz', which is also in package clamav-daemon 0.98.7+dfsg-0ubuntu0.14.04.1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581839
<cpaelzer> 1581839:     Sponsored by Brian Murray (thanks), waiting for 3rd party verify in proposed
<rharper> rbasak: sad day; no progruss on either of mine
<cpaelzer> 1581839:     Waited in proposed for the reporter to verify, but didn't happen - tested myself plus a bit of regression check to unblock migration
<cpaelzer> 1581839:     Released to Updates as of today
<cpaelzer> bug 1495988 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "ProxyErrorOverride leads to slow 404 responses" [Medium,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1495988 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "ProxyErrorOverride leads to slow 404 responses" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495988
<cpaelzer> 1495988:     Waited for clearing of 1286882 (now done)
<cpaelzer> 1495988:     Prepared a simplified testcases for verification (added to SRU template)
<cpaelzer> 1495988:     Waiting to pass SRU queue
<cpaelzer> bug 1590688 in clamav (Ubuntu) "clamav-daemon doesn't start after installation" [High,New]
<ubottu> bug 1590688 in clamav (Ubuntu) "clamav-daemon doesn't start after installation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590688
<cpaelzer> 1590688:     Analyzed, freshclam not starting is a regression that affects any recent Ubuntu & Debian - fix created and posted to deb bug 827909
<ubottu> bug 827909 in Session Menu "guest item in user menu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827909
<cpaelzer> 1590688:     clamav-daemon not starting was "always" the case, a suggestion posted to debian as well.
<cpaelzer> bug 1524526 in dovecot (Ubuntu Xenial) "Crashes with undefined symbol" [High,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1524526 in dovecot (Ubuntu Xenial) "Crashes with undefined symbol" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524526
<cpaelzer> 1524526:     Merge in review (importer process found various issues) + includes dropping of the failing plugin.
<cpaelzer> 1524526:     Feedback of first round of review handled, ready for review again.
<cpaelzer> 1524526:     That goes along with a no change rebuild of dovecot-antispam as discussed (debdiff also attached to the bug, and mentioned int the MP)
<cpaelzer> bug 1204530 yppasswd results in a segmentation fault when run on clients or server [High,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1204530 in nis (Ubuntu Trusty) "yppasswd results in a segmentation fault when run on clients or server" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204530
<cpaelzer> 1204530:     Updated the SRU debdiff I had there to match SRU versioning policy and subscribed sponsors (waiting for sponsorship)
<cpaelzer> NTP: I had several changes lined up for Debian to be picked up on the next merge, but there is not a lot of activity.
<cpaelzer> NTP: The Debian maintainer said on my question if he waits on something from me "I guess I'm waiting for time to work on the ntp package again."
<cpaelzer> NTP: That said we can't "wait" and might have to decide to go for a delta which then can be dropped again :-/
<cpaelzer> bug 1548325 ntpd crashed with SIGABRT [High,Confirmed]  - closed as dup now
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1548325 could not be found
<cpaelzer> bug 1567540 ntpd crashed with SIGABRT (was: ntp crashes everytime the network goes up or down) [High,Confirmed]
<ubottu> bug 1567540 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntpd crashed with SIGABRT (was: ntp crashes everytime the network goes up or down.)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567540
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Dups to each other, but this one has an active reporter - trying to get setup info from reporter to get the error reproducible for us.
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Old analysis didn't show clear indices where to look for, but Ubuntu Error Tracker shows about >9000 occurances so it is not a singule case :-/
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/sbin/ntpd%3A6%3Aassertion_failed%3Aisc_assertion_failed%3Areceive_blocking_req_internal%3Ablocking_child_common%3Ablocking_thread
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     On the other hand this is auto-invoked on ifup and some other things depending on setup, so a few can cause a lot of reports.
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Analyzed and found (very likely) root cause in http://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2831
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Need a Merge from Debian to fix (import to our git process requested)
<ubottu> bugs.ntp.org bug 2831 in ntpd "Segmentation Fault in DNS lookup during startup" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Nominated a Xenial task for considerations on backport - major code change, bug hard to test as it is a race.
<cpaelzer> 1567540:     Although security Team might be wanting all the changes into Xenial anyway for various CVEs
<cpaelzer> bug 1046340 ntp package missing logcheck exceptions file /etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/ntp [Medium,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1046340 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntp package missing logcheck exceptions file /etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/ntp" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046340
<cpaelzer> 1046340:     I created a fix for Debian inclusion, but that stalled - I pinged the debbug again
<cpaelzer> bug 1206164 /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate does not detach correctly  [Medium,Triaged]
<cpaelzer> 1206164:     I provided a fix based on smosers suggestion to Debian for inclusion, but that stalled - I pinged the debbug again
<ubottu> bug 1206164 in ntp (Ubuntu) "/etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate does not detach correctly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206164
<cpaelzer> bug 427775 ntpdate.dhcp always ignored [High,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 427775 in ntp (Ubuntu Trusty) "ntpdate.dhcp always ignored" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427775
<cpaelzer> 427775:     I provided an evolved fix based on what was attached to the bug, but that stalled - I pinged the debbug again
<cpaelzer> bug 1129696 Cannot set config file in /etc/default/ntp [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1129696 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Cannot set config file in /etc/default/ntp" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1129696
<cpaelzer> 1129696:     I extended the provided patch by some pieces needed for inclusion and submitted to Debian, but that stalled - I pinged the debbug again
<cpaelzer> bug 1582767 apparmor permissions missing for winbind [Medium,Triaged]
<ubottu> bug 1582767 in ntp (Ubuntu) "apparmor permissions missing for winbind" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582767
<cpaelzer> 1582767:     Taken over from magicalChicken to be grouped with the ntp work around
<cpaelzer> 1582767:     Inquired the special samba setup to be able to test eventually (samba as ADS slave + windbind + ntp)
<cpaelzer> NTP: FYI - 8 more NTP bugs I analyzed in the past will close by expiring the next 4 days
<cpaelzer> sorry ubottu :-/
<cpaelzer> many bugs, a lot of status this week
<cpaelzer> feel free to digest the status while ubottu digests the list :-)
<rbasak> cpaelzer has been busy! :)
<cpaelzer> tl;dr - 2 closed - a few in flight and a hell lot of ntp needing a merge which I'll start
<rbasak> magicalChicken: I'm fine to consider bug 1519120 done from your perspective - it's a desktop issue anyway. I wonder if you could look into the other issue though - vlan matching ifname glob?
<ubottu> bug 1519120 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager VLAN support fails unless vlan package is manually installed" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519120
<nacc> rbasak: both bugs are pending testing results, but fixes are available, i've gotten postivie responses to one of them already (LP: #1553563)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1553563 in bacula (Ubuntu) "bconsole to Bacula Director fails with authorization problem message" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553563
<magicalChicken> rbasak: still unable to reproduce 1394403, have submitted patch for 1296835 and I believe you have uploaded it already. Testing fix for 1534538 atm
<rbasak> Thanks!
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Yeah, I can take a look at fixing the ifup script there
<rbasak> I think that's everyone. I have quite a bit to digest!
<rbasak> I haven't triaged bugs recently, so no new assignments, sorry. I will triage soon. If there's anything urgent, I'll assign midweek.
<rbasak> So, I guess there's no need for everyone to hang on?
<rbasak> Thank you for all the progress everyone - again I'm really pleased with how this effort is going.
<nacc> would it make sense to move our bugs to a spreadsheet or osmething?
<nacc> so it would be less of a poll every week and we can update status async?
<rbasak> I actually have it in a spreadsheet.
<nacc> :)
<rbasak> I'd be happy to share it ;)
<rharper> rbasak: thanks for driving this
<nacc> yeah, i was just sthinking, cpaelzer's bug list flooded the channel a bit today, might be easier to follow along when my (or anyone else's) bugs show up to be polled if it was just done via the spreadsheet directly as to status, but assignment and help was done here, or so
<rbasak> I think that makes sense.
<rbasak> Let's try it.
<cpaelzer> I'm ok updating there as well - that was just my local tracker file which I now wrote a script to create IRC compatible rbasak-status-reports
<nacc> heh
<cpaelzer> rbasak: feel free to share and I'll try updating there
<rbasak> Hmm. And just as you've written your script, we deprecate it. Sorry :)
<cpaelzer> I enjoyed it for a day at least
<cpaelzer> and since it is one line ...
<cpaelzer> long line ...
<rharper> hehe
<cpaelzer> I'll keep my local list in any way since I forget too much (politician mode)
<jgrimm> rbasak, i'm assuming you are working through the responses?
<rbasak> jgrimm: I'll do it offline I think. Since I don't have anything new to assign, might as well not hold people up. So I think I'm done for now, thanks.
<jgrimm> rbasak, cool. thanks again
<jgrimm> with that.. we are done.
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 28 16:31:27 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-28-16.01.moin.txt
<nacc> thanks jgrimm!
<rharper> jgrimm: thx
<jgrimm> thanks all!
<cpaelzer> thanks jgrimm
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-29
<gnuoy> \o
<icey> o/
<gnuoy> tinwood you're down to chair since James covered for you last week
<tinwood> gnuoy, I've not a clue what to do??
<tinwood> Plus, I didn't know I was down for last week.
<thedac> o/
<tinwood> Can I skip, read up on it, and do it next week?
<thedac> I was sitting in #openstack-charmers :)
<gnuoy> tinwood, sure: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OpenStackCharmsMeeting
<gnuoy> #startmeeting openstack-charms-meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 29 17:02:37 2016 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic:
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy move meeting to openstack-meeting channel
<cargonza> o/
<gnuoy> YEs, well we're here, so I haven't
<cholcombe> o/
<cargonza> gnuoy, it seems that this timeslot is filled by another meeting in the openstack-meeting channel.. just an fyi...
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy to update testing for multi-release upgrade testing
<gnuoy> cargonza, ah. ok, thanks for the info
<gnuoy> I'll probably do the testing update as part of the 16.07 prep tbh
<gnuoy> #topic State of Development for next Charm Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: State of Development for next Charm Release
<gnuoy> SSL layer stuff mostly landed.
<thedac> DNS HA landed \o/
<gnuoy> \o/
<gnuoy> tip top
<tinwood> \o/
<cargonza> nice!
<icey> woot
<gnuoy> Keystone v3 support for the dashboard up for review. Interestingly to get it to work I had to add a relation from the dash to the db
<gnuoy> Ah, on that subject does anyone know of an Openstack charm which has some logic like:
<gnuoy> If config option A is enabled then Relation X is needed
<gnuoy> I need to reflect that in the workload sttaus code ^
<tinwood> Strangely, I've done that with Barbican and the hsm for testing.
<thedac> Can that be expressed in a context?
<gnuoy> thedac, yes it could
<gnuoy> I guess thats my answer
<gnuoy> thanks
<gnuoy> Oh, and we need Openstack upgrade support to get into the layers before 16.07
<thedac> also, Apparmor profiles are a WIP
<gnuoy> ah, yes
<gnuoy> #topic Release Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Release Bugs
<gnuoy> #link https://goo.gl/HJjORI
<gnuoy> not much shift there, lets try and get that number down for next week
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gnuoy> Anyone got anythong they'd like to openly discuss?
<thedac> I think the topic submission for Openstack Summit is coming up quick
<gnuoy> Right, we need ideas
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> I wonder if we could do some 101 sessions for Juju?
<thedac> good idea. Make it official
<thedac> And an openstack specific charming session
<gnuoy> yeah
<coreycb> those are good ideas
<coreycb> do we know when the deadline is?
<gnuoy> We need an sriov session but I don't have the background for that tbh
<thedac> July 13th according to beisner
<cargonza> nfv/sdn specifics also??
<coreycb> thedac, ok
<gnuoy> I guess nfv and sriov would probably go together
<thedac> #link https://www.openstack.org/summit-login/login
<thedac> strangely that is the correct link ^^
<gnuoy> ok, well any ideas lets collate them even if you don't end up doing the talk
<gnuoy> anymore items?
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gnuoy> same time, same place (maybe) and tinwood is down to chair
<tinwood> okay, sounds good.
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 29 17:17:45 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-29-17.02.moin.txt
<tinwood> thanks gnuoy, I'll have to check those commands out.
<gnuoy> np
<coreycb> thanks gnuoy
<icey> thanks gnuoy
<thedac> thanks gnuoy
<gnuoy> yw
<cargonza> thx gnuoy
<bdx> whats up guys, sorry I'm late - didn't know about the meeting
<bdx> shoot
<bdx> ha
 * genii makes sure bdx gets a consolation coffee
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-30
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> <o/
<pitti> ~o~
 * slangasek waves
<barry> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 30 15:01:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> slangasek bdmurray pitti caribou robru doko xnox mwhudson cyphermox sil2100 infinity tdaitx barry chiluk
<slangasek> oh no!
<slangasek> better reroll
<pitti> hah
<cyphermox> ahah
<sil2100> Phew, still time to prepare the report
<sil2100> No! No reroll!
<sil2100> ;)
<slangasek> (next time I'll reroll behind the screen)
<barry> :)
<cyphermox> cheater!
<pitti> gabbagabbahey
<tdaitx> =)
<pitti> (the only cheat code I can still remember, from Descent)
<cyphermox> xzyzzy
<robru> wow, only two weeks and i forgot about this
<pitti> oh, FUND (or so, SimCity?)
<sil2100> I remember itisagooddaytodie from Starcraft
<sil2100> We should add some cheat codes to Ubuntu Touch
<sil2100> ;)
<tdaitx> â â â â â â â â B A
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image: discussions about the architecture and interface between ubuntu-image and snappy
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image: progress on image.yaml syntax
<slangasek>  * discussions about i386 deprecation and possible impact to server
<slangasek>  * presentation of snappy console experience mock-up
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray is off today
<slangasek> pitti:
<pitti> foundations-y-network-yaml:
<pitti>  - some minor spec changes, sent to sabdfl for review
<pitti>  - implement config.d/* merging, start implementing wifi
<pitti> foundations-y-local-resolver:
<pitti>  - integrate resolved's new local DNS server functionality (blocked in -proposed on a1 freeze)
<pitti>  - properly treat DNS servers with domain name limitations; PR being discussed upstream, this still needs some conceptual understanding
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - prepare SRU fixes for socket startup rate limiting (#1568094) and USB interface rename disabling (#1593379)
<pitti>  - robustify and improve networkd/resolved tests
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - init-system-helpers: be verbose on service start failures (#1596056), make update-rc.d get along with an unpacked but unconfigured initscripts (Debian #824804), various minor bug fixes
<ubottu> Debian bug 824804 in init-system-helpers "update-rc.d: may invoke insserv without -f flag when initscripts is installed but not configured" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/824804
<pitti>  - build and test fresh xenial -base langpacks
<pitti>  - quite a lot of SRU and archive admin
<pitti> (done)
<pitti> slangasek: what is ubuntu-image in this context, OOI?
<barry> pitti: that's the question, innit? :)
<slangasek> pitti: ubuntu-image is the CLI for mastering a snap image based on instructions in a gadget snap
<caribou_>  Bugfix
<caribou_>   Misc bug handling/help
<caribou_>   - LP: #1535898 - double-free core
<caribou_>     SRU in -proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1535898 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Precise) "Trusty & Vivid multipath-tools (multipathd) seg-fault core dump" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535898
<caribou_>   - iSCSI+LVM issue
<caribou_>     Fixed by xnox SRU
<caribou>  Launchpad & Public :
<caribou>   LP: #1596599 - Ubiquity localization bug
<caribou>   Clamav merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1596599 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Full disk encryption passphrase is using wrong locale" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1596599
<slangasek> pitti: where a gadget snap includes a declarative image.yaml telling u-i what partitions are required and how to lay out bootloader blocks
<caribou>   Makedumpfile UEFI enablement
<caribou>   - kexec not working on signed kernel
<caribou> slangasek: sorry
<pitti> slangasek: oh, thanks; kind of a YAMLfied preseed in spirit?
<slangasek> caribou: no, keep going :)
<caribou>   Laptop reinstallation
<caribou>   - Found Ubiquity localization bug
<caribou>  â Done
<cyphermox> thanks!
<cyphermox> it's a fun one too
<robru> short week due to vacation
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - reimplemented "revert" feature that reuploads an old upload with a new version number.
<robru> - hide "edit" button when user not logged in
<robru> - clean up some stale cache files in the expiry script.
<robru> (done)
<xnox> doko at debconf
<xnox> zua - published sample client
<xnox> Uploads for bug #1592990
<xnox> Upload for bug #1558967
<xnox> Develop & Upload for bug #1595495
<xnox> Re-started i386 discussion for next LTS cycle
<ubottu> bug 1592990 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Xenial) "HCPGIR450W CP entered; disabled wait PSW 00020000 80000000 00000000 00004502" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592990
<xnox> Finished all validations for bug #1572613
<ubottu> bug 1558967 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "libfuse2: race in fuse_daemonize() causes ' Transport endpoint is not connected' (found with cmsfs-fuse)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1558967
<ubottu> bug 1595495 in partman-base (Ubuntu Xenial) "DASD drives can only hold 3 partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595495
<xnox> Debconf prep & there next week
<ubottu> bug 1572613 in gcc-mingw-w64 (Ubuntu) "GCC stack access scheduled after stack deallocation" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572613
<xnox> ..
<doko> xnox not yet at debconf
<doko> - freezing in Cape Town (6-8 degree celsius)...
<doko> - SRU: uploaded around ten toolchain unrelated ftbfs for xenial
<doko> - final Python 2.7.12 and 3.5.2 release (no code changes, except for idle)
<doko> - finished xenial test rebuilds, evaluated test rebuilds, found no regressions for seeded packages
<doko> - final (famous last words) binutils and gcc-5 uploads for xenial-proposed, LP: #1586673.
<doko> - still looking at Python related build failures in the test rebuilds, but found no regressions so far
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1586673 in gcc-5 (Ubuntu) "Backport GCC 5.4.0 and binutils 2.26.1 to 16.04 LTS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1586673
<doko> - travelled to DebCamp/DebConf, currently at DebCamp
<doko> - GCC-6 sprint at DebCamp, fixing issues, and helping people to fix issues
<doko> - openjdk-9 update
<doko> - next week DebConf
<doko> (done)
<xnox> heh sorry
<slangasek> haha
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - merge ubiquity fixes from 4$ (bug LP: #1584417)
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - grub2 EFI IPv6 patch backports (bug LP: #1229458)
<cyphermox> - installer work and planning
<cyphermox> - review ubiquity fixes for scaling on HiDPI (bug LP: #1560162)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1584417 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Location/Timezone picker crashes on install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1584417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229458 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560162 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xenial: scaling is horribly out on xps13 install session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560162
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - Secure Boot kexec discussion with caribou
<cyphermox> - shim-signed to call update-secureboot-policy in postinst configure
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> oh, and I'm off tomorrow
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Crazy week, Friday off, part of Thursday off
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - xenial touch arm64:
<sil2100>   * Copying xenial overlay state to the snapshot
<sil2100>   * Attempting to rebuild the leftover projects with the new oxide-qt
<sil2100>   * Looking into the idea of having an arm64-only oxide-qt package
<sil2100> - Finishing final changes and testing of the per-device redirects (thanks Steve, Barry!)
<sil2100> - Sent out ubuntu-touch-custom project addition to cdimage
<sil2100> - Prepping livecd-rootfs changes for ubuntu-touch-custom support
<sil2100> - Helping out with maliit-framework package releases
<sil2100> - Multiple channel changes, enablement of new custom tarballs
<sil2100> - OTA-12:
<sil2100>   * Snapshotting current overlay state
<sil2100>   * Copying current rc images to the rc channel
<sil2100>   * Final release moved by one week, coordinating remaining changes
<sil2100> - Misc tweaks and fixes to the landing-team-tools
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: grub2 EFI IPv6> yay!  please target this for xenial also
<cyphermox> slangasek: of course!
<cyphermox> I have a grub built in a "sru-staging" PPA; ready for testing.
<barry> no infinity today
<slangasek> so, tdaitx:
<tdaitx> Short week: 2 days off, 3 half-days
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx> - ncurses (testing package) and isc-dhcp (ongoing)
<tdaitx> OpenJDK
<tdaitx> - new security release; working on OpenJDK 8, will provide Yakkety, Xenial, and Wily packages; then will backport patches to OpenJDK 7 and provide Wily, Trusty, and Precise packages; after that comes OpenJDK 6 (Wily, Trusty, and Precise)
<tdaitx> = Notes
<tdaitx> - will take day off tomorrow
<tdaitx> - travelling back on Monday evening, I will be depending on the Airport's Lounge wifi for the whole day
<tdaitx> - Tuesday I will still be travelling and then take the afternoon off after I arrive home
<tdaitx> = Pending
<tdaitx> - Do I need to forward the OCA? (doko?)
<tdaitx> - Process to backport LP: #1594393 to Xenial?
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1594393 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "JVM on PPC64 LE crashes due to an illegal instruction in JITed code" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594393
<barry> short week due to travel and jury duty
<barry> git-importer bug fixing and testing for sbuild merge
<doko> tdaitx, already done
<barry> ubuntu-image gadget branch & meetings
<barry> xonsh 0.4.2+dfsg-1 sponsorship
<tdaitx> doko, thanks!
<barry> monday is a usa holiday
<barry> --done--
<chiluk> yay holidays
<pitti> oh, July 4th
<pitti> happy independency day!
<slangasek> tdaitx: process to backport> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Process plus sponsorship
<barry> so much independence
<slangasek> yes, Monday is the 4th of July in the US
<slangasek> (not sure what the date is elsewhere)
<tdaitx> slangasek, yep, question is, does OpenJDK needs to go through it? It had an exception in the past...
<xnox> riots across UK on the 4th
<barry> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1628841/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4
<slangasek> tdaitx: if you're backporting patches, that's not covered by any exception for upstream releases
<barry> xnox: well, with dc and puerto rico, london could be our 53 state
<tdaitx> slangasek, got it, thanks
<slangasek> tdaitx: wrt merges, do you have anything you're looking to have sponsored at this point?  (Is it in the sponsorship queue currently?)
<chiluk> * Updating chiluk-maas cluster to xenial+2.0
<chiluk> * 2 days vacation - Tennessee
<chiluk> * LP #1576747 - Turns out we need to do a sync. I'll put the
<chiluk> * Finally got a new battery for my laptop.
<chiluk> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576747 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager unable to control wifi after suspend in 16.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576747
<chiluk> woops wrong lp#
<chiluk> lp#1592862
<xnox> barry, as long as we keep our gun laws
<tdaitx> slangasek, not yet, waiting for the build to finish so I can check the results
<slangasek> ok
<xnox> and remain not subject to federal laws
<xnox> it could work
<chiluk> hey we had a sit in, in congress about that, that no one paid any attention to.
<cyphermox> barry: London can be Canada's 12th province, or it's 20th or so if we annex the handlebars.
<slangasek> any other questions over status?
<slangasek> chiluk: it was covered on CSPAN
<cyphermox> I have no questions
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<chiluk> slangasek: I beleive cpan just rebroadcast some congressional periscopes.
<slangasek> chiluk: still counts
<barry> cyphermox: you just have to build a border wall and get trumpistan to pay for it
<doko> who is going to do the alpha1, shouldn't it be ready today?
<cyphermox> barry: of course
<cyphermox> doko: I thought stgraber had volunteered on #u-release, but I may have hallucinated that
<slangasek> doko:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseTaskSignup says stgraber
<doko> ahh, ok
<cyphermox> good to know I'm still sane
<slangasek> doko: I was browsing MoM and noticed libjpeg-turbo has an update (even though the comment says it doesn't); Debian has now switched to libjpeg-turbo by default and looks like there's some packaging to sift through.  Do you want this one, or do you mind if I pick it off?
<doko> slangasek, pitti: I'm looking for a review of the binutils and gcc-5 uploads in the xenial unapproved queue, I hope everything is mentioned in the lp issue
<slangasek> looks like a few things have been lingering in the xenial queue
<slangasek> I don't think I'll get to it today though
<cyphermox> slangasek: I see shim-signed 1.16 made it to xenial but not elsewhere, are the other releases still on your list?
<doko> slangasek, well, not sure if we need to. if you do that, then keep in mind that ubuntu has jpeg8 compat while debian has jpeg6
<doko> I won't touch it for the next weeks
<pitti> slangasek: I commented on some of them, like ceph; they were missing test plans
<pitti> i. e. major upstream updates and no word about how to verify them
<slangasek> doko: "need" is relative; but there is a new upstream version in Debian
<doko> right, I can update to this one
<slangasek> pitti: can we be more strict about bouncing these from the queue, so they don't get constantly re-reviewed?
<doko> MoM doesn't remove comments ...
<slangasek> doko: you said you won't for the next weeks - I'll have a look at it :)
<pitti> slangasek: you mean rejecting them instead of just commenting in the bug?
<slangasek> pitti: yes
<slangasek> bouncing from the queue> like a bouncer at the club
<doko> slangasek, ok, ok, but please review binutils and gcc-5 first =)
<slangasek> cyphermox: yes they are on my list - I didn't do the xenial accept but was hoping to get to the others before anyone else did :)
<cyphermox> cool, cool
<pitti> slangasek: I'd have a feeling about being an arrogant bureaucrat then, TBH, but we could try
<cyphermox> I'll do the ipv6 testing this PM while I discuss some python issues I've had for installer work with barry
<pitti> I did all the obvious/good ones this morning and yesterday, the remaining ones are of the "throw a large upstream update against the wall" kind
<barry> cyphermox: yep, we can talk in more detail later this afternoon
<slangasek> pitti: it saves time across the SRU team for not re-visiting things in the queue
<cyphermox> yep
<pitti> ah, ceph now got a ref to a test plan
<cyphermox> barry: I have a meeting over lunchtime, but we can catch up after lunch, I just need to nuke a bowl of soup
<barry> cyphermox: want to say 1:30pm Eastern?
<cyphermox> barry: wfm
<barry> cool
<slangasek> alrighty
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> barry: I schedule a hangout so I can show you the code
<barry> cyphermox: perfect!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 15:27:19 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-30-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<cyphermox> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-06-26
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<leosilva> o/
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 26 16:32:27 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> last week I spend a lot of time on store reviews as well as snappy PRs, especially the bpf cache PR (dealing with racy profile generation). I also investigated some new incoming work, then focused on the password-manager-service interface (submitted PR)
<jdstrand> this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - complete testing/respond to feedback on the password-manager-service interface
<jdstrand> - finish overlayfs/apparmor/snaps investigation (file overlay/apparmor bugs)
<jdstrand> - snappy-debug work (fix to work with journald )
<jdstrand> - miscellaneous snappy policy updates PR
<jdstrand> - assuming that currently blocked but higher priority work remains blocked, get back to wayland interface
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> it's a short week for me, I'm off thursday afternoon and friday
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing apache2 updates which I'll be releasing this afternoon
<mdeslaur> then I have a few more things to test and release
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'll have kernels to publish USNs for this week
<sbeattie> as well as some triage work to catch up on
<sbeattie> I'm testing my sudo packages, and will work on openssh after that
<sbeattie> I need to do some catching up with apparmor
<sbeattie> And that's probably my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I had a long weekend and it is taking me longer than expected to get caught up on email today
<tyhicks> once that's done, I will start working on the seccomp kernel patches in support of the application-controlled logging design that kees and I discussed Thursday of last week
<tyhicks> I'll also be continuing by fscrypt evaluation for encrypted home
<tyhicks> eCryptfs patch review keeps getting pushed to the back so that's still pending, as well
<tyhicks> jj is out right now
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<tyhicks> he's not here yet
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: go ahead
<chrisccoulson> I've got an embargoed update this week
<chrisccoulson> Also, the thunderbird update got re-spun last week, so I've prepared new builds for that which I need to test again
<chrisccoulson> I've got a chromium update to test and publish
<chrisccoulson> In addition to that, I'll be spending a bit more time backporting patches to spidermonkey to get an idea about how supportable it is
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> ratliff_: go ahead
<ratliff_> I'm on cve triage this week which makes me happy
<ratliff_> I will also work on uc15 updates
<ratliff_> leosilva: it is your turn now
<leosilva> last week I spent some time in shadow's upate and eglibc
<leosilva> also dig a bit in cron CVE
<leosilva> worked in ntp update that is not required for precise
<leosilva> investigated a bit mysql cves
<leosilva> this week I'm planning to finish shadow tests and shadowing sarnold in rotational duties.
<leosilva> that's it from me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you
<tyhicks> great! I was just about to suggest that you shadow sarnold in bug triage this week ;)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-htmlpurifier.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/stalin.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lame.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/loganalyzer.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/borgbackup.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 26 16:46:59 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-26-16.32.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<leosilva> thanks tyhicks o/
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-06-27
<ahasenack> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 27 16:00:01 2017 UTC.  The chair is ahasenack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<dpb1> o/
<ahasenack> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ahasenack> * cpaelzer reach out to ubuntu-devel@/AA and find out if an audit log of package exceptions exists anywhere
<ahasenack> cpaelzer: I believe you did that, right?
<ahasenack> he did
<slashd> o/
<ahasenack> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<ahasenack> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<ahasenack> nacc: carry over?
<rbasak> o/
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<cpaelzer> I did and will pull out a link
<cpaelzer> sorry to be late as announced
<ahasenack> np
<cpaelzer> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2017-June/039831.html
<cpaelzer> that is the thread
<ahasenack> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2017-June/039831.html
<ahasenack> bot?
<cpaelzer> which is good as it covers where tihngs are today and slangasek 's plan to extend for -updates
<dpb1> hm
<dpb1> ahasenack: it doesn't echo on link received iirc
<nacc> ahasenack: carry over, please
<ahasenack> nacc: ok, thx
<ahasenack> #action * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> ahasenack: *and* one person specifying #link is enough, not just the chair is recongnized
<ahasenack> #action * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<ahasenack> * powersj schedule a bugsquashing day!
<powersj> done!
<ahasenack> powersj: I saw you scheduled one for tomorrow, is that correct?
<ahasenack> nice
<powersj> yes!
<ahasenack> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<ahasenack> rbasak: carry over?
<rbasak> Please
<ahasenack> #action * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<ahasenack> * rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<ahasenack> * rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<rharper> carry
<ahasenack> rharper: news about that?
<ahasenack> ok
<ahasenack> #action * rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: * rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<ahasenack> #action * rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: * rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<ahasenack> * dpb add on the #topic server ddstreet as a backup in case slashd is absent
<dpb1> done
<ahasenack> thx
<ahasenack> * dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
<dpb1> done
<dpb1> well
<ahasenack> why is it stalled?
<dpb1> I looked into it
<dpb1> you can leave it on for next week
<ahasenack> ok
<ahasenack> #action * dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
<meetingology> ACTION: * dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
<ahasenack> * dpb add agenda item for next week to check on triage progress.
<ahasenack> done, I see it
 * dpb1 nods
<ahasenack> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<ahasenack> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<ahasenack> #subtopic Current Work
<ahasenack> there is an alpha coming out today?
<ahasenack> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<dpb1> looks like thursday
<ahasenack> there are a ton of cards in the review column
<ahasenack> anything else to add?
<ahasenack> #subtopic Release Bugs
<ahasenack> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> django, ubuntu-advantage (esm), ipmi
<dpb1> I'm looking at ubuntu-advantage-tools, have a branch in progress
<ahasenack> ok
<ahasenack> moving on
<ahasenack> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<slashd> Business as usual : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24963994/ One of the hot topic in STS is the 'pcp' pkg MIR: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iNd6cPJSIIN_lzmJKUPWb0K9rnaeYo3APebH3bkXF8E/view  .We already had some good inputs from cpaelzer and sil2100 but I have invited dgadomski to join the meeting to discuss further about the MIR with the keys persons if appropriate for this meeting.
<dgadomski> hello everyone
<cpaelzer> hi
<slashd> cpaelzer, I know you look at our template already
<slashd> any concerned ? do you think we are on the good track
<slashd> ?
<cpaelzer> well I have two open issues which are noted so far but not yet solved (needs more time)
<slashd> dpb1, did you look Brooks' email for approval ?
<dpb1> Yes, I was letting it sit a few days waiting for others on the team to have their chance
<slashd> dpb1, sound good
<ahasenack> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<slashd> cpaelzer, what should be our focus ? fix the bug for now ?
<slashd> #info SRU pending for : percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, rsyslog, autofs5, percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, multipath-tools, open-iscsi, nfs-utils, ksh
<cpaelzer> To get a formal ack I'd want to see somebody step up and drive dep8 tests, manual tests and fixes of anything you have found plus what I (and debian bug reports) reported
<cpaelzer> that is approx 1-2 weeks of work plus the push through to Debian and a resync
<ahasenack> do I need to echo that info or was it accepted silently?
<cpaelzer> the acceptance in Debian would also prove some of the concern that it isn't that actively maintained there
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: for me it shows up in an extra channel to be accepted
<ahasenack> ok
<dpb1> ahasenack: you have to provide a #link yes
<slashd> dgadomski, any question for the server team about the MIR ?
<cpaelzer> slashd: dgadomski: also the follow on MIR is kind of untouched
<slashd> anyting you want to add or address
<cpaelzer> I reported that you need one for <package I don't remember> but that will be part of the scope as well
<dgadomski> yes, from what I read in the feedback those are the things that need to be fixed:
<cpaelzer> so the full drill once more - bugs, cve's, maintenance status, upstream status, tests in place ... ?
<dgadomski> debian bug #805955, startup scripts (try to use the systemd services present in upstream)
<ubottu> Debian bug 805955 in src:pcp "pcp: FTBFS when built with dpkg-buildpackage -A (no binary artifacts)" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/805955
<dgadomski> is there anything else that we should focus on at this point?
<cpaelzer> yes
<cpaelzer> 1. the extra MIR I mentioned
<cpaelzer> 2. <no bug # yet>: add dep8 tests to all of the various binraries of pcp
<cpaelzer> honestly I just typed their names and one of them segfaulted
<cpaelzer> that is what I meant with "I'd want to see somebody step up and drive dep8 tests, manual tests and fixes of anything you have found plus what I (and debian bug reports) reported"
<cpaelzer> dgadomski: ^^
<dgadomski> ok, we will add this to our list, thank you
<cpaelzer> dgadomski: and one more thing
<cpaelzer> what is your target - artful?
<cpaelzer> or 18.04?
<cpaelzer> it wasn't listed int he doc I saw
<dgadomski> I believe it's artful
<cpaelzer> well then hurry up :-)
<ahasenack> #info pcp MIR: 1. the extra MIR I mentioned (<cpaelzer> I reported that you need one for <package I don't remember> but that will be part of the scope as well); 2. <no bug # yet>: add dep8 tests to all of the various binraries of pcp
<cpaelzer> thanks ahasenack
<ahasenack> silent bot
<dpb1> shhh
<ahasenack> ok, so z bugs, long list, but many fix committed (cloud-init mostly)
<slashd> cpaelzer, any crucial date ? deadline ?
<cpaelzer> dgadomski: reach out to me at any time if there are questions
<dgadomski> cpaelzer: I appreciate it, thank you
<cpaelzer> slashd: deadline is to get all that was mentioned into Debian so that it is autosynced before the auto-sync is stopped
<cpaelzer> let me check
<ahasenack> back to mir
<cpaelzer> All mentioned in Debian before 23th August, and a formal MIR bug on both packages with Ack of the security Team
<cpaelzer> and a Team that says yes to maintain it
<slashd> cpaelzer, ack ok I think that cover the MIR topic for now
<cpaelzer> again you might need dpb1's ack for pcp if he wants us to do, but I'm not sure on the extra dep
<dpb1> dep8, segfaults, and the other dep are non-negotiable
<slashd> cpaelzer, there is another thread between mgmt about this
<slashd> dpb1, ack
<slashd> sound good I think we now know the next step dgadomski anything else ?
<cpaelzer> extra dep is libpapi5 FYI
<dpb1> #info pcp has another dep: libpapi5 that would also need a MIR
<ahasenack> #info pcp MIR: <dpb1> dep8, segfaults, and the other dep are non-negotiable
<ahasenack> #info <cpaelzer> extra dep is libpapi5 FYI
<ahasenack> geez, who is running this? :)
<dpb1> BOOM!
<slashd> ;)
<rbasak> Sounds like dpb1 just volunteered to chair the next meeting :-P
<ahasenack> he liked it so much last week
<nacc> *all* future meetings
<nacc> that's what I heard
<ahasenack> linkedin skill
<slashd> thanks guys I think that's it for the MIR
 * dpb1 ignores peanut gallery
 * ahasenack waits just to be sure
<dpb1> lol
<ahasenack> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> x bugs
<ahasenack> anything to highlight?
<slashd> not for me thanks
<ahasenack> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week I released the new cloud-init CI system and spent a good deal of time getting through cloud-init SRU verification, and ended week submitting 3x jenkins-launchpad-plugin merge requests
<powersj> This week already worked on cloud-init and curtin SRUs. Plan to do some KPI work, but squash day tomorrow, and get back to proposed testing later this week.
<powersj> questions?
<ahasenack> bug squash I hope
<ahasenack> do you have a link to the announcement?
<powersj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2017-June/007551.html
<ahasenack> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2017-June/007551.html
<ahasenack> thx
<ahasenack> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Not much to report as I was mostly collar deep in sh..iny recovery work to have the problems caused by initial fixes for the kernel stackclash issue replaced by latest upstream versions. We are working hard to get this out as soon as possible but things take time.
<smb> Are there questions otherwise?
<ahasenack> thx smb
<ahasenack> #topic Update on new Triage Process (cpaelzer)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Update on new Triage Process (cpaelzer)
<ahasenack> cpaelzer: anything to update?
<cpaelzer> ?
<cpaelzer> was that meant to cover the expiration bugs
<dpb1> think so, yes
<cpaelzer> I think so
<ahasenack> I think just a general check point
<cpaelzer> so I myselv covered 3 of them
<cpaelzer> but I saw some working on others
<cpaelzer> to get a sane tracking please once you handled one please click the checkbox in
<cpaelzer> https://trello.com/c/txK0T1is
<dpb1> wow
<cpaelzer> other than that - please at least on your triage duty day do 1-3 of them
<cpaelzer> or we will carry them what feels like forever
<ahasenack> #info when working on a bug from the backlog, please check https://trello.com/c/txK0T1is
<cpaelzer> I can only ask you and try to go by example
<cpaelzer> so for now - info "clearing backlog started, but progress is still too slow"
<ahasenack> #info clearing backlog started, but progress is still too slow
<cpaelzer> also in case you ran out or are not in the mood for fixes on the bug squash - clearing those old things is bug squash as well
<ahasenack> the script listed this bug to me today:
<ahasenack> Bugs in backlog and not touched in 180 days
<ahasenack> Found 1 bugs
<ahasenack> LP: #1572132 - (New)            [samba]          - SMB driver (SMBv2) does not show all files when mounting a windows top level share
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1572132 in samba (Ubuntu) "SMB driver (SMBv2) does not show all files when mounting a windows top level share" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572132
<ahasenack> would that be in that card?
<ahasenack> a quick ctrl-f didn't find it
<nacc> i think the card is only the "old" old backlog
<nacc> as in our baseline of oldest bugs
<ahasenack> >= 180?
<nacc> not the ones that will occur (potentially) each day running the script after that first day we decided to
<dpb1> ah, not the freshly-new-old bugs.
<nacc> cpaelzer: is that correct?
<nacc> dpb1: right, that's my thinking
<ahasenack> ok
<ahasenack> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<ahasenack> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<ahasenack> I added ZFS to the list:
<ahasenack> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<ahasenack> it's a two-day quickie
<ahasenack> one day for presentations, the other day for a hackathon
<cpaelzer> nacc: correct
<cpaelzer> that is the very old backlog
<cpaelzer> sorry for the delay
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: don't run so fas
<cpaelzer> t
<ahasenack> this ain't dpb
 * cpaelzer misses the campfire
<ahasenack> anything else for conferences?
<ahasenack> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<ahasenack> I don't think there is any coming up, other than the bug squashing day tomorrow
<ahasenack> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<ahasenack> anything someone wants to discuss?
<dpb1> lots of things
<dpb1> oh, you mean, with this crowd?
<ahasenack> and work related
<dpb1> no.
<ahasenack> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<powersj> Can we skip next week or have cpaelzer run it due to a certain US holiday...
<ahasenack> Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-07-04 at 1600 UTC, chair will be ... non-us?
<dpb1> yes -- cpaelzer would be next on list
<ahasenack> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-07-04 at 1600 UTC, chair will be cpaelzer
<powersj> danke
<ahasenack> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 27 16:40:28 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-27-16.00.moin.txt
<ahasenack> now the hard hpart
<dpb1> ahasenack: there is the moin link ^
<dpb1> :)
<powersj> ahasenack: thanks for running!
<dpb1> ahasenack: sending out that text slightly-edited as the email usually works.
<dpb1> o/
<cpaelzer> thanks ahasenack
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-06-29
<sil2100> o/
 * slangasek waves
<rbalint> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 29 15:01:45 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> fginther mwhudson Odd_Bloke doko infinity Tribaal xnox slangasek bdmurray rcj sil2100 cyphermox philroche rbalint tdaitx
<slangasek> aaaaand go
 * sil2100 starts running
<fginther> nothing to speak of this week
<fginther> done
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke: next!
<Odd_Bloke> I was on vacation.
<Odd_Bloke> Very productive.
<Odd_Bloke> done
<Tribaal> Highlight: Refactoring a bunch of things in the build system (\o/)
<doko> - uploaded binutils to artful (trunk), fixing fall-out
<doko> - updated GCC 6 again, fixing kernel build issue on arm64
<doko> - some syncs and merges
<doko> (done)
<infinity> * All sorts of archive cleanup, making sure uninst stays at 0 (well, currently at 1, thanks Steve)
<infinity> * Drive NBS almost down to 0 (2 more to go)
<infinity> * More xenial HWE X reviews (and more to come)
<infinity> * Back-and-forth with Andy, iterating on 4.10 linux-hwe (final iteration in flight as we speak)
<infinity> * Debug glibc autopkgtest regression with new binutils (upload pending)
<infinity> * Some SRU processing (these brackets left intentionally blank)
<infinity> * A bit of archive recovery when SOMEONE broke gcc (doko, it was doko)
<infinity> * Will be off Monday for the Canada Day long weekend (drunk on maple syrup)
<infinity> (done)
<doko> just syrup?
<bdmurray> Tribaal: ?
<Odd_Bloke> When you're snorting it, syrup is all you need.
 * chiluk lurks 
<xnox> bah
<xnox> #highlight SOTA - OCaml 4.04 transition in progress
<xnox> Publishing WSL app, should be finally in the store soon for Insiders.
<xnox> Starting work on subiquity, poking subiquity code / probert / booting on s390x (many bugs in infra, livefs builders, cloudimages, maas images, s390x-specific)
<xnox> Will be looking into adding vlan support into subiquity, whilst the s390x infra bugs are fixed.
<xnox> systemd - cve fix for artful, together with fallback fix uploaded (pending adt testing)
<xnox> intel-microcode backport done as an SRU for zesty
<xnox> ship laptop to replace battery - not sure if i should ever use that laptop once it comes back
<xnox> AbEnd 0C7
<chiluk> xnox what's the plan on the SRU for everything else?
<chiluk> that microcode issue may not be the most pressing, but it definitely has gotten a lot of press.
<gaughen> chiluk, would you bring me some of your amazing coffee please? I hear it's great.
<slangasek>  * discussions around team organization
<slangasek>  * preparations/discussions for 16.04.3 and linux-hwe
<slangasek>  * thinking deeply about proposed-migration issues
<slangasek>  * next week: off Mon, Tue for the Independence Day holiday
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> investigation into test_core_dump_packaged apport test failure
<bdmurray> uploaded apport test fixes for x/y/z and upstream
<bdmurray> cleanup of processes on cranberry due to high load RT
<chiluk> gaughen:  did you c-tab again?
<bdmurray> merge sil2100's bugbot changes for v-done tagged bugs
<bdmurray> bugbot: Fix sru_verification_policy_change's call to bug.newMessage
<bdmurray> bugbot: Fix sru_verification_policy_change's comment criteria
<bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie bug LP: #1697375
<rcj> gaughen: Lunch tomorrow is chicken fried steak for chiluk
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697375 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "crash reports are not uploaded automatically" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697375
<bdmurray> special SRU release of nplan for 16.04
<bdmurray> searched for duplicates of gnome-software bug LP: #1679435
<bdmurray> reported bug re aptdaemon's crash handler LP: #1700810
<bdmurray> reported update-manager bug LP: #1700829 re -d switch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679435 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Zesty) "GNOME Software fails to install .deb packages that trigger debconf prompts" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700810 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptdaemon's crash.py file may no longer be working" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700829 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) "-d switch doesn't accurately describe itself" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700829
<bdmurray> merged MP regarding some ubuntu-manual-tests typos
<bdmurray> investigation into unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1690980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "No pop-up window to warn users that system should not reboot or shutdown while installing security updates" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<bdmurray> â done
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * mfdiff vastly upgraded, fixed, etc now with python3 support
<rcj>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/mfdiff/revision/19
<rcj> * lots of MP reviews
<rcj> * started refactoring cloud-image build release automation
<rcj> â done
<Tribaal> ohh "lots of MP reviews" too :)
 * Tribaal piggybacks
<sil2100> - Low-productive Monday due to cold aftermath
<sil2100> - Fixed my internal kernel SRU notification script to not spam me with e-mails on an edge case
<sil2100> - Backporting Balint's gce-compute-image-packages to stable releases
<slangasek> doko: hey, did you see my IRC ping some time ago about the pillow transition from experimental being stuck in -proposed?
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Prepare and test PR for fixing classic confinement
<sil2100>   * Work on the implementation spec for classic images
<sil2100>   * Reviewing some patches
<sil2100> - SRU:
<sil2100>   * Fixed all verification-done bugs to the new standard
<sil2100>   * Sent out an announcement and ran one-shot script to inform old SRUs of the policy change
<sil2100>   * HIGHLIGHT (?): SRU bug verification rules changed
<sil2100> - New kernel re-spin review and release
<sil2100> - Building new images for plano ubuntu-core
<sil2100> (done)
<doko> slangasek: Not touching package due to block request by freeze (contact #ubuntu-release if update is needed)
<doko> ?
<infinity> That freeze should be lifted soon, I assume.
<philroche> * Build system refactoring
<philroche> done
<rbalint> * short week
<rbalint> * cloud-init/systemd changes https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/326252
<rbalint> * image minimizing LP: #1700972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700972 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please only recommend or suggest initramfs-tools | linux-initramfs-tool for kernels able to boot without initramfs" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700972
<rbalint> * livecd-rootfs changes LP: #1700995, LP: #1701132
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700995 in vmdk-stream-converter (Ubuntu) "[MIR] vmdk-stream-converter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700995
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1701132 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Please use xz instead of pxz" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1701132
<rbalint> * new upstream releases for Debian unstable with scrubbing bugs: kodi, wireshark
<rbalint> (no highlights for now)
<rbalint> (done)
<tdaitx> Short week: half-day on Friday, out on Monday
<tdaitx> +1 maintenance:
<tdaitx> - libqmi (LP: #1699599),python-pysam (LP: #1701268), eclipse-mylyn (LP: #1652759)
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - got rid of the jet lag today \o/
<tdaitx> - curious as to why do we even carry such an old eclipse version...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1699599 in libqmi (Ubuntu) "libqmi 1.18.0-1 FTBFS when building against glib2.0-2.53.1-1 (or later)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699599
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1701268 in python-pysam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] python-pysam fails to build due to htslib update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1701268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1652759 in libcommons-lang-java (Ubuntu) "eclipse-mylyn 3.12.0-2 FTBFS (Unable to find plug-in: org.apache.commons.lang_0.0.0)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1652759
<bdmurray> I think that's everyone slangasek
<bdmurray> chiluk: Did your question get answered?
<chiluk> bdmurray: not really.. but I think rbasak is taking point on that one.
<slangasek> doko: you dropped the python-imaging package, and it has revdeps
<doko> ahh, that one. I'll have a look
<slangasek> Any questions over status?
<chiluk> no one is actually assigned to any of the tracks in lp 1700373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700373 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu Yakkety) "intel-microcode is out of date, version 20170511 fixes errata on 6th and 7th generation platforms" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700373
<xnox> chiluk, would you like to prepare sru for the other series?
<chiluk> Yeah I can do that.
<slangasek> tdaitx: any fixes for those bugs in need of sponsorship?
<xnox> chiluk, cool.
<chiluk> although I feel like i've missed some of the conversation xnox.
<tdaitx> slangasek, no, might need for libcommons-lang-java soon (as soon as the reverse dependencies are all re-build)
<chiluk> xnox... we need to get it fixed at least in Xenial imho.... Trusty is a different beast altogether, but probably should get it as well.
<slangasek> tdaitx: ok
<slangasek> no other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bug triage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug triage
<chiluk> I'm good...
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> doko: Do you have any plans to SRU the fix for bug 1682934?
<ubottu> bug 1682934 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "python3 in /usr/local/bin can cause python3 packages to fail to install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682934
<xnox> chiluk, yeah, so zesty microcode is in proposed. yakkety well, it may go eol soon enough, no?! but xenial is good.
<doko> bdmurray: hmm, I didn't. do you want to see it there?
<chiluk> xnox by xenial is good.. you mean that we should put it in xenial correct?
<xnox> chiluk, trusty - microcode was in multiverse, not restricted. and it's very out of date, i do not think we should be updating it.
<xnox> chiluk, as e.g. that microcode will break e.g. running .0 xenial containers / chroots
<bdmurray> doko: I think so since it is causing upgrade failures.
<chiluk> I'm in agreement with you about trusty... I think..
<xnox> due to lock ellision bug.
<chiluk> xnox.. i'm not privy to that bug.
<chiluk> So let me make sure I understand this... a trusty host running xenial containers or chroots could potentially load the new microcode from the container due to a lock ellision bug?
<bdmurray> With bug 1646739 it looks to me like it might be the issue where the debconf prompt is never presented.
<ubottu> bug 1646739 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""Use of uninitialized value" in debconf via update-manager" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646739
<bdmurray> I feel like there are a lot of duplicates of gnome-software not supporting debconf dialogs buried in LP.
<slangasek> well, update-manager vs. gnome-software so different package
<slangasek> update-manager should add the Depends on libfoo-perl
<xnox> chiluk, no
<xnox> chiluk, false
<bdmurray> Unfortunately, afaict there isn't a great way to figure out if it is update-manager or gnome-software calling aptdaemon.
<slangasek> I think there is a bug open about that, bdmurray ?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Did you see chttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php7.0/+bug/1646739/comments/21
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1646739 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""Use of uninitialized value" in debconf via update-manager" [Critical,Confirmed]
<slangasek> bdmurray: right, but previously both update-manager and gnome-software had the bug, so we should make sure it's fixed in the packaging for both and then maybe mark all the rest of the existing bugs as duplicates of one or the other (at random)?
<slangasek> and then if we get new bugs, that tells us something else
<bdmurray> slangasek: Part of the issue is that we don't know which version of u-m or g-s was in use with the given logs.
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> bdmurray: if we fix the update-manager deps, can we track error rates to see if it tapers off as people upgrade to the SRU?
<bdmurray> track the rate of errors of package install failures where $reply is uninitialized?
<slangasek> bdmurray: also, should we log a bug that aptdaemon should have something in its protocol that asks the client to identify itself, so it can be logged? :/
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes something with aptdaemon needs to change and maybe RelatedPackageVersions should include g-s and u-m
<slangasek> bdmurray: there's also the other bug, where if you close the frontend GUI and aptdaemon is still running, the other end of the debconf socket is disconnected and things will break
<slangasek> bdmurray: right
<bdmurray> slangasek: What is the update-manager dep you are referring to?
<slangasek> bdmurray: update-manager should depend on libgtk2-perl, independently of gnome-software and software-properties-gtk depending on it
<bdmurray> ack
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else on incoming bugs?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Not on incoming, but I could use some assistance with bug 1690980.
<ubottu> bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "No pop-up window to warn users that system should not reboot or shutdown while installing security updates" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<slangasek> bdmurray: assigned!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 29 15:45:07 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-29-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-06-25
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 16:31:11 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> We welcome Alex Murray (amurray) to the Ubuntu Security Team today! Welcome Alex, we are thrilled that you are joining us to help continue improving security for Ubuntu users!
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team is hiring. See https://grnh.se/8c0a6c1f1 for more details.
<sbeattie> welcome ammuray!
<jdstrand> welcome amurray` !
<leosilva> welcome amurray` !!!
<sarnold> welcome amurray` !!!!
<ratliff> Any more !!!!! of delight? :)
<leosilva> hehe
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<ratliff> jdstrand: welcome back from vacation!
<jdstrand> thanks!
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> * catching up on email, irc from last week
<jdstrand> * snapd PR reviews
<jdstrand> * follow up with Tyler on unsquashfs issue (ie, work on re-enabling resquashfs enforcement)
<jdstrand> * adjust snap-confine to always use a device cgroup
<jdstrand> * pick up review-tools snap USNs phase1/part ii work as have time
<jdstrand> I'm not at all caught up on email yet, but I think sbeattie is up next
<sbeattie> yep
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoffs to do, and some kernel qrt test failures to look at
<sbeattie> I'm working on finishing up the conversion of the cve-tracker to git
<sbeattie> I have an internal project I'm working on
<sbeattie> I also need to make some upcoming travel arrangements.
<sbeattie> that's likely it for me.
<sbeattie> no jj today, so.... sarnold? I think you're up?
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, working down the MIRs, and perhaps most likely to interact with amurray` in his mornings
<sarnold> the libfprintd codebase is very trusting of input from the hardware. I'd like to file upstream bugs for all the cases where If eel it's *too* trusting. it's unlikely to get traction but still, I'm already here
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got firefox updates this week
<chrisccoulson> And I also need to update rust to 1.27
<chrisccoulson> So that will probably be it for me, although I hope not
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week.
<ratliff> I will still be focused on internal work this week.
<ratliff> leosilva: on to you
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week :)
<leosilva> I have an openssl to USN, but I'm postoning it since Marc will USN his openssl soon.
<leosilva> Other than that I'm cve-researching hunting pkgs to update
<leosilva> ratliff: it's back to you
<ratliff> thanks!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, sbeattie, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 25 16:45:09 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-06-25-16.31.moin.txt
<leosilva> thanks ratliff!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<jdstrand> ratliff: thanks! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-06-28
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 15:00:52 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<slangasek> fginther Odd_Bloke tdaitx doko bdmurray cyphermox slangasek infinity philroche rbalint sil2100 rcj juliank mwhudson xnox
<slangasek> fginther: good morning
<fginther> morning
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther> * Manual minimal image testing
<fginther> * Testing of network related image changes
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> Odd_Bloke is out, tdaitx?
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 7 failures:
<tdaitx>   - unable to reproduce LP: #1777933 on powerpc
<tdaitx>   - tried to reproduce LP: #1778930, helped the user to debug it as he had no steps to reproduce it, investigated backtrace and identified the faulty code in the icedtea backports of a 8u161 hotspot security update; issue has been reported upstream
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 10 update:
<tdaitx>   - shuffling through packages in pkg-java-maintainers that might need fixes for bionic and/or cosmic or a SRU in bionic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1777933 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "openjdk-7 7u181-2.6.14-0ubuntu0.1 zerovm causes eclipse to crash" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1777933
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778930 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "JVM crash with SIGSEGV as tomcat start with 7u181" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778930
<doko> - gcc-7 / gcc-8 updates
<doko> - python 3.6.6 and 3.7.0 releases
<doko> - start the fun, adding python3.7 as a supported version ...
<doko> - more transitions, migrations work, never ending
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> worked with IS to get the right version of the mojo spec run in jenkins
<bdmurray> redeployed staging version of the Error Tracker (all good)
<bdmurray> updated RT re mojo spec deployment of the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> tested, wrote test case for, and uploaded python3-minimal changes for LP: #1768379
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768379 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3-minimal should predepend on versioned version of python3-minimal" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768379
<bdmurray> searched for more triggers which changed in cosmic to noawait
<bdmurray> pinged webops regarding the retracers that were stopped / disabled (they are back)
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding flipping the failed queue retracers back to the failed queue
<bdmurray> overrode a gnome-software regression of the current Ubuntu 16.04 SRU
<bdmurray> worked on deb to snap transition in ubuntu-release-upgrader
<bdmurray> discovered gnome-calculator won't get removed because of unity-scope-calculator
<bdmurray> tested, then uploaded u-r-u fix for LP: #1775660 to cosmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1775660 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should purge obsolete packages, not just remove them" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775660
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding apport-noui and automatic crash reporting
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> - monday off, next monday off too.
<cyphermox> - verified shim-signed SRUs
<cyphermox> - netplan advanced networking spec (tracking down signoff)
<cyphermox> - updated wiki doc for DKMS on Secure Boot
<cyphermox> - added Secure Boot/DKMS note to release notes wiki page for bionic
<cyphermox> - upstream shim work on MokManager timeout handling
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] landed UEFI Secure Boot reference implementation for VMs
<cyphermox>  - install ovmf + libvirt, and pick OVMF_CODE.ms.fd to get all the SB glory typical x86 metal would have
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek>  * minimal image work
<slangasek>  * netplan design review
<slangasek>  * working on -proposed transitions (a little bit here and there)
<slangasek>  * SRU reviewing
<slangasek>  * work on image design in GKE
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity>  * Made debian-cd and live-build happy with multi-part initrds in cosmic
<infinity>  * Uploaded SRUs to trusty and xenial for the above (pending review)
<infinity>  * Looking into various transitions and general archive health
<infinity>  * Assisted with recovery in 1SS after The Great Battery Fire of 2018
<infinity>  * Starting on point release prep for 16.04.5 and 18.04.1
<infinity>  * Discussions with the kernel team about userspace SRUs needed for 16.04.5
<infinity>  * Some mentorship and reviews of random bits and bobs
<infinity>  * General AA maintenance
<infinity>  * Lots of doctors and tests and messed-up sleep schedules
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> philroche:
<slangasek> infinity: were your SRUs also uploaded to bionic?
<rbalint> philroche is out i hink
<bdmurray> philroche: is out
<slangasek> rbalint:
<infinity> slangasek: Err, I meant xenial and bionic.
<rbalint> * moved wireshark packaging to Salsa
<rbalint> * uploads through Debian: wireshark new upstream
<infinity> slangasek: Not trusty.
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades improvements (pending review):
<slangasek> infinity: ack
<rbalint>   - autopkgtest installing all security updates in stable releases
<rbalint>   - adapt to apt/dpkg frontend locking scheme
<rbalint>   - fix u-u's upgrade on shutdown
<rbalint> * manual minimal image testing
<rbalint> * sru ebtables to all releases to not break wsl upgrades
<rbalint> * prepared new Ubuntu wsl apps
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - A few kernel SRU reviews (leftovers from the cycle)
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * PR reviews
<sil2100>   * Checking locales size change
<sil2100>   * Started work on cleaning up unneeded files
<sil2100>   * Fixed GID/UID mapping
<sil2100> - Preliminary investigation of broken cosmic image builds
<sil2100> - partman:
<sil2100>   * Learning how partman does partitioning
<sil2100>   * Investigating the partman-auto autopartition magic
<sil2100>   * Modifying partman-efi to save the number of ESPs found, using that in -auto
<sil2100>   * Switchign the partman-auto recipes to create ESP on any label
<sil2100>   * Lots and lots of testing on kvm
<sil2100>   * Preparing SRUs for upload
<sil2100> - grub --auto-nvram:
<sil2100>   * Fixing regression with images cosmic images being unbootable on EFI
<sil2100>   * Preparing all changes for SRUing into bionic
<sil2100> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * Updated AutomaticSecurityUpdates wiki to describe how a user would determine if Unattended-Upgrade is enabled (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates#Determining_the_current_configuration)
<rcj> * Cloud partner image analysis
<rcj> * Cloud image preview build development for multiple envs
<rcj> * Build system work
<rcj> (done)
<juliank> * new apt and python-apt 1.7.0~alpha1 releases (bug 1723761)
<ubottu> bug 1723761 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrade hangs on shutdown when network is required for updates" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723761
<juliank> * new apt SRUs for bionic, artful, xenial; and verificiation of those (bug 1762766, bug 1778547, bug 1778551, bug 1766542, bug 1773992)
<juliank> * wrestling with salsa.debian.org to get CI working there for bionic SRUs
<ubottu> bug 1762766 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "apt-get update hangs when apt-transport-https is not installed" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762766
<ubottu> bug 1778547 in apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "Broken system lock counting" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778547
<juliank> * microcode packages now install all microcode to initramfs if MODULES=most (cosmic, SRUs pending)
<ubottu> bug 1778551 in apt (Ubuntu Artful) "Add linux-modules* packages to VersionedKernelPackages" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778551
<juliank> * update-manager (1:18.10.3) for bug 1771914
<ubottu> bug 1766542 in OEM Priority Project "Installation blocks when the machine is behind a proxy server" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766542
<ubottu> bug 1773992 in apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "apt-key adv should gpgconf --kill all the things after execution" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773992
<juliank> * more work on https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/345403
<ubottu> bug 1771914 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "release-upgrade-motd can't update message via apt proxy" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771914
<juliank> * minor work on apt frontend locking
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> (ubottu done now too)
<xnox> * Fixing systemd autopkgtest regressions in cosmic
<xnox> looking much better now, still something odd with tests under
<xnox> lxd (as executed on armhf)
<xnox> did v239 merge, not uploaded as it has upstream regressions
<xnox> * Working on adding vlan support to subiquity
<xnox> * Uploaded new mdadm to unstable/cosmic
<xnox> * Uploaded finalrd into ubuntu cosmic/NEW
<xnox> * TODO new boost, in progress
<xnox> done
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> xnox: do we have a test case now for the systemd logind sru changes?
<xnox> slangasek, yes
<slangasek> thanks, I can re-review today then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
 * doko is leaving early form the meeting, see you later
<bdmurray> bug 1778817 I see is in the general distro lane, should it get prioritized?
<ubottu> bug 1778817 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "release upgrade from xenial to bionic desktop: screen locks itself, password to unlock fails" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778817
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes
<slangasek> sorry, I meant to do that already
<bdmurray> and _inhibitIdle isn't doing the right thing for some reason?
<slangasek> (done now)
<slangasek> bdmurray: evidently not
<slangasek> bdmurray: I raised it to willcooke, he was going to assign someone to look at it
<bdmurray> slangasek: for which task?
 * gaughen waves bye to doko 
<slangasek> bdmurray: that was unclear
<bdmurray> rbalint what needs to happen with bug 1778219?
<ubottu> bug 1778219 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades hangs on shutdown, leaves system in a broken state" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778219
<juliank> that should probably use systemd-inhibit too?
<rbalint> juliank, how?
<rbalint> imo upgrades during shutdown are never tested
<juliank> I think it can use systemd inhibitors directly too
<rbalint> i'm proposing a piuparts test testing upgrade during shutdown by extending https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=899000
<ubottu> Debian bug 899000 in piuparts "piuparts: allow running tests in lxc and VM backends" [Wishlist,Open]
<juliank> Not sure how to verify
<rbalint> this is for archive-wide coverage
<rbalint> bdmurray, the specific fixes include deb-systemd-invoke skipping start during shutdown
<rbalint> ... and fixing snapd calling systemctl
<bdmurray> Do you we need to open an issue on the forum or whatever about that?
<rbalint> bdmurray, i think there is not much to discuss regarding the fixes, but we can ask for volunteers to help fixing the individual packages faster
<bdmurray> Okay, what packages need fixing?
<bdmurray> Can we get the tasks recorded in the bug?
<bdmurray> slangasek: What's going on with bug 1773859?
<ubottu> bug 1773859 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "upgrades to 18.04 fail" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773859
<rbalint> bdmurray, init-system-helpers for sure, but i can't tell the full set
<slangasek> bdmurray: I still have no idea how that system got into that state
<slangasek> bdmurray: and I can't reproduce it in a pristine install
<gaughen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oem-config/+bug/1777900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1777900 in oem-config (Ubuntu) "oem-config breaks the systemd resolved link for /etc/resolv.conf in 18.04 server " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bdmurray> alright
<cyphermox> oh, yay
<bdmurray> rbalint: should we search for packages that call systemctl directly?
<rbalint> bdmurray, lintian has a check  for that: https://lintian.debian.org/tags/maintainer-script-calls-systemctl.html
<rbalint> bdmurray, but there are false positives and negatives there
 * juliank tested the inhibiting for slangasek's bug, and found that gnome-session-inhibit should work, and adding systemd-inhibit would do nothing
<slangasek> bdmurray: ^^
<rbalint> bdmurray, piuparts would be more accurate
<juliank> (more details in bug comment)
<bdmurray> juliank: great, thanks
<bdmurray> that's it for bugs today
<slangasek> alright
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> I'll be out tomorrow
<slangasek> lots of holidays next week
<slangasek> Canaday on Monday
<slangasek> the 4th of July on the 4th of July
<cyphermox> ah?
<cyphermox> there's no other name for it?
<infinity> slangasek: You should consider moving the 4th of July to the 1st.
<cyphermox> USADAY or something
<bdmurray> I thought it was Independence Day
<slangasek> but no holidays colliding with this meeting on Thursday
<infinity> cyphermox: Independence Day, but that's consufing cause it's also a classic film/
<slangasek> cyphermox: what bdmurray said
<infinity> confusing, too.
<cyphermox> infinity: heh, it's a day you can watch that movie and do fireworks and whatever the "Americans" do then
<juliank> only confusing if you don't watch independency day on independency day
<juliank> ugh, typo
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 28 15:40:13 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-06-28-15.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-06-25
<cyphermox> doko: didrocks: cpaelzer: nothing to discuss for MIRs?
<doko> no, I don't think so.
<doko> when do the mailman MIRs come to an end?
<didrocks> nothing special
<cpaelzer> hi
<cpaelzer> nothing from me as well
<cpaelzer> I have catched a minor review
<cpaelzer> the mailman MIRs are almost all on security now I think
<cpaelzer> we have a doc with ~6 extra tasks to resolve
<cpaelzer> the biggest one was to cut out nodejs and ruby
<cpaelzer> which is done in Debian (experimental) now
<cpaelzer> doko: there will be no "new" mailman MIRs as it seems
<cpaelzer> I think the last ones were uwsgi and twitter-bootstrap3 which cyphermox took
<cpaelzer> let me check those (one surely is doen)
<cpaelzer> yes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twitter-bootstrap3/+bug/1820226 is waiting to find someone with javascript expertise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820226 in twitter-bootstrap3 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] twitter-bootstrap3 as dependency of mailman3" [Undecided,In progress]
<cpaelzer> and cyphermoxalso did uwsgi
<cpaelzer> so a bunch being on security, but nothing for the MIR team right now
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-06-27
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<waveform> o/
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> hangout not cooperating here.
<cyphermox> it's just megaslow
<juliank> o/o/o/
<rbalint> we can still start the meeting here
<sil2100> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 27 15:03:54 2019 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<sil2100> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<sil2100> juliank infinity tdaitx vorlon sil2100 mwhudson bdmurray cyphermox doko xnox rbalint waveform
 * juliank wins
<juliank>  * finished the apt 1.9.0 transition
<juliank>   * released python-apt 1.9.0; broke image building :/
<juliank>   * fixed livecd-rootfs and apt-xapian-index for new python-apt, hopefully fixing image building :)
<juliank>   * fixed dependency solving in aptdaemon to behave more normally (and work with apt 1.9)
<juliank>  * verified dkms SRU LP: #1827697 across releases (lots of VM to install, gotta simplify that)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827697 in dkms (Ubuntu Eoan) "Enroll key whiptail prompt blocks kernel header package upgrades" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827697
<juliank>  * TIL (or TWL):
<juliank>   * How to start qemu in secureboot, although a bit hackish, not proper
<juliank>   * That cosmic does not render in qemu except with qxl vga device; and then it's still missing cursor!
<juliank>  * Things to figure out:
<juliank>   * Backporting LP: #1744318 - https for changelogs.u.c to xenial; and what regressions we could get
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1744318 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "changelogs.ubuntu.com should be using HTTPS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744318
<juliank> (done)
<tdaitx> * verified fixes for tomcat8, netbeans, and scilab (LP: #1825604, LP: #1828427, LP: #1825037, LP: #1827090)
<tdaitx> * jck + openjdk-ri packaging (ie. squaring a circle)
<tdaitx>   - going through documentation
<tdaitx>   - trying to snap it somehow
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825604 in netbeans (Ubuntu Disco) "[SRU] Netbeans 10 should depend on java11-sdk" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828427 in netbeans (Debian) "[SRU] Netbeans fails to create a java project with NoSuchMethodError" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825037 in scilab (Ubuntu) "[SRU] scilab-cli and scilab-adv-cli does not start on bionic, cosmic, disco and eoan" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827090 in tomcat8 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] tomcat8-instance-create fails to update control port" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827090
<sil2100> I guess no vorlon for the meeting this week
<sil2100> Let me go
<sil2100> - Out-of-office Thursday-Friday last week
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - Switching-off dry-run mode from britney's SRU ADT regression notification
<sil2100>   * Had to tweak the e-mail logic to make it working
<sil2100>   * Requesting a bot account for SRU purposes
<sil2100> - Finishing jenkins jobs for new core18 promotion purposes
<sil2100>   * Iterating on the merge a bit with a few fixes here and there
<sil2100>   * Preparing all credentials, sending them over
<sil2100> - Looking into the snapd issues in powerpc builds, fixed livecd-rootfs, sponsored some cherry-picks for snapd
<sil2100> - Releasing a new core18 into stable, manually phasing the update as per snapstore request
<sil2100> - NEW review of an ubuntustudio package
<sil2100> - Sponsoring + random stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> bdmurray: I guess it's your turn
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u fix for deb2snap transition for upgrades from 18.04 (LP: #1833753)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1833753 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with AttributeError in _replaceDebsWithSnaps(): 'UbuntuDistroInfo' object has no attribute 'version'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833753
<bdmurray> resolved issue with DistUpgradeQuirks and deb2snap transition for upgrades from Ubuntu 18.04
<bdmurray> dropped u-r-u's obsolete kernel removal code in Eoan (LP: #1828100)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828100 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Eoan) "KernelRemoval section of DistUpgrade.cfg shouldn't require manual updating" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828100
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the foundations team bug bot and lp users that are 410
<bdmurray> tested a minimum / partition install (LP: #1833610)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1833610 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "minimum disk space recommendation is too small" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833610
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1833795
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1833795 in apport (Ubuntu) "unable to report an 18.04 crash from a 19.04 system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833795
<bdmurray> dropped SystemImageInfo gathering from apport's ubuntu general hook
<bdmurray> converted parts of oops-repository from using pycassa to python-cassandra
<bdmurray> removed SystemImageInfo code from daisy as it is no longer needed there
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> review of rls- tagged bug reports
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> short week: off Monday, off tomorrow and next monday.
<cyphermox> MIR review
<cyphermox> reviewed more rls-*-incoming bugs w/ Brian
<cyphermox> grub2: merge, grub-reboot, EFI stub loading from 'linux' command
<cyphermox> netplan feature spec flags partly approved now (still needs signoffs from Server / Jay)
<cyphermox> more netplan specs to draft / need review
<cyphermox> packageset update / figuring out exceptions for desktop-common/-core
<cyphermox> partner work
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> - last Thursday bank holiday
<doko> - Merge the riscv64 zero patches for openjdk 11, and up
<doko> - test rebuild give backs, fixing GCC 9 issues, filing GCC upstream issues
<doko> - test rebuild on ppc64el not yet finished ...
<doko> - OpenJDK sync
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox: is sprinting
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * shadow:
<rbalint>   - prepared next upstream release in Salsa
<rbalint>   - converted to dh from cdbs
<rbalint>   - preparation of moving login to util-linux in progress
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades related reviews
<rbalint> * prepared srus for LP: #1771858 in cluding tracking down regressions and non-regressions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771858 in snapd (Ubuntu) "/snap/bin not in default PATH for units, snapd should ship system-environment-generators to inject /snap/bin into $PATH" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771858
<rbalint> (done)
<waveform> * Pi4 launch week! Posted some hardware off to cwayne (indirectly)
<waveform> * Investigated boot state on pi4: some minor changes (new firmware), some major changes (second stage boot-loader now in EEPROM, no support for netboot and USB yet - forthcoming updates)
<waveform> * Prepped updates to get eoan images booting on pi4; not yet tested, need updates to flash-kernel (see below)
<waveform> * Prepped merged classic & core bootscripts for RPi (adding optional splash support)
<waveform> * Agreed way forward with sil2100: merge updated bootscripts into flash-kernel, SRU bootscript patches (but not version upgrade) to bionic, then PR pi3-gadget to use new bootscripts
<waveform> * Investigating pyparted & fftw3 FTBFS on armhf issues for doko; replicated fftw3 failure (NEON related) but not pyparted so far
<waveform> * Still looking into BT on core
<waveform> (done)
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<sil2100> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1832309
<ubottu> bug 1832309 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "netplan stores wifi-password world-readable" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832309
<bdmurray> cyphermox: can you confirm that?
<cyphermox> yes, that's known
<gaughen> waveform, I tried to buy a pi4!
<bdmurray> cyphermox: seems worth carding then right?
<cyphermox> I mean, it's a textfile you need to write to...
<cyphermox> yeah, there's a PR for part of that too
<bdmurray> okay, so carding
<bdmurray> bug 1834226
<ubottu> bug 1834226 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier doesn't respect "automatically check for updates: Never"" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834226
<bdmurray> while poorly described this seems familiar to me
<bdmurray> I think its really about unattended-upgrades not respecting a setting from software-properties-gtk. Does that sound familiar balint?
<sil2100> rbalint: ^
<rbalint> bdmurray, it is apt that calls u-u
<rbalint> juliank, ^
<rbalint> :-)
<rbalint> (via systemd timers)
<juliank> that's packagekit I assume
<rbalint> :-D
<rbalint> i propose taking the bug :-)
<juliank> PackageKit has its own timer, and it's not configurable
<juliank> Simple fix is to remove the never option
<gaughen> bdmurray, my vote on that netplan card is that we put it on the list to get working on this next iteration
<gaughen> so on the prioritized lane please
<rbalint> juliank, i think it is not really the direction of pleasing users :-)
<juliank> No hang on, I think it's actually gnome-settings-daemon issuing the Refresh call to PackageKit
<bdmurray> gaughen: ack
<juliank> But in any case, we can't be sure what the cause is, we need a ps tree
<sil2100> We don't have to solve it now, but is this something we'd want to get fixed this cycle?
<rbalint> sil2100, yes, imo
<juliank> It's certainly not urgent as its been that way all the time, but yes
<bdmurray> I think finding whatever bug I'm remembering would be good
<bdmurray> That way we have an idea of the number of people who choose "Never"
<sil2100> Let's maybe card it then?
<bdmurray> How about we leave it on the list until the detective work is done.
<rbalint> bdmurray, i think the process is taking it then doing the work
<bdmurray> We are also make a lot of assumptions about what the person is talking about, so asking some follow up questions seems good to me too.
<sil2100> Ok
<bdmurray> bug 1829805 is also high
<ubottu> bug 1829805 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu Eoan Daily Image fails to boot after install on KVM" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829805
<bdmurray> xnox has asked for some more information though so leaving it seems fine
<sil2100> Yeah, let's wait for the reporter to provide more info
<bdmurray> Lets move on to the Undecided ones next
<bdmurray> bug 1796260
<ubottu> bug 1796260 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "UEFI install onto an MBR disk, with a pre-existing os/partition, results in a non-bootable ESP on a logical partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796260
<gaughen> isn't that one mwhudson is working on
<sil2100> This sounds familiar
<bdmurray> It looks like there is a card for this
<cyphermox> sil2100: because we've discussed this previously
<bdmurray> Let's set the importance of it. What should we do about the rls-ee-incoming tag?
<bdmurray> bug 1833758
<ubottu> bug 1833758 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm2: vgcfgbackup in postinst takes several minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833758
<bdmurray> Does this only happen w/ schroot?
<sil2100> sbeattie: ^
<bdmurray> sil2100 and I'll have a look at it to see what situations are affected.
<sil2100> I'll try investigating this, seeing what impact it has
<bdmurray> Oh, whoops we missed bug 1832882
<ubottu> bug 1832882 in curl (Ubuntu Disco) "libcurl-gnutls segfaults spotify client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832882
<bdmurray> So while the snap works it might be nice to fix this anyway
<bdmurray> It seems like a pretty straightforward SRU
<rbalint> bdmurray, isn't it a 3rd party package?
<juliank> I don't see a patch
<bdmurray> rbalint: Yes
<rbalint> juliank, there is one in the github issue
<rbalint> bdmurray, sry maybe it is valid still for curl
<juliank> rbalint: might not be the same issue
<rbalint> it is worth trying i think
<bdmurray> seb pointed to this https://packages.qa.debian.org/c/curl/news/20190512T204836Z.html
<bdmurray> Does the debian bug have a test case?
<bdmurray> Well let's just take it.
<sil2100> +1
<rbalint> +1
<juliank> meow!
<bdmurray> That is all the High and Undecided bug reports
<gaughen> juliank, is that the new hipper +1?
<juliank> either that or -1
<sil2100> Should we move on?
<sil2100> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<gaughen> sil2100, no too busy thinking about cats
<sil2100> hah!
<sil2100> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<doko> so, adam tells me that glibc and binutils issues are likely caused by a kernel regression
<doko> I'll address the sphinx issue with the python 3.7.4 today or tomorrow
<sil2100> doko: does the kernel team know about the regressions?
<gaughen> doko, wonder if the fix for the regression is coming out this week
<doko> accordng to adam, yes
<gaughen> doko, okay then these should be gone by our next mtg
<rbalint> partman-multipath is waiting for comments from xnox
<doko> that's it. I'd like to continue with https://people.canonical.com/~doko/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20190614-eoan.html
<doko> who is owning whoopsie?
<bdmurray> there is card for the ftbfs bugs
<doko> last issues: https://people.canonical.com/~doko/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20190614-gcc9-eoan.html
<doko> should I file issues for those as well?
<bdmurray> cards were created for all the ftbfs bugs for foundations packages
<doko> bdmurray: not for the gcc9 issues yet. would you like to care about these?
<bdmurray> I mean that all the ftbfs bugs that were previously filed and tagged rls-ee-incoming were targetted to Eoan and cards were created for them.
<rbalint> doko, i think it is a bit early since Debian's fixes will start flowing in two weeks
<doko> rbalint: yes, but that doesn't mean that GCC 9 is the default in Debian at this time
<sil2100> Ok, guess let me change the topic
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> Anything else besides that?
<bdmurray> Next Thursday is a US holiday
<sil2100> Ok, thanks guys! Next chair will be...
<sil2100> waveform: can you chair next time?
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 27 16:07:56 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-06-27-15.03.moin.txt
<sil2100> bdmurray: noted
<rbalint> o/
<waveform> sil2100, sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-06-23
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 23 14:31:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: jamespage: doko: didrocks: sarnold: joeubuntu: - hi
<ddstreet> o/
<doko> hi
<jamespage> o/
<cpaelzer> did I miss anybody, I feel like I count one too few
<cpaelzer> anyway lets get started, you poitn out in case I missed someone
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<joeubuntu> o/
<cpaelzer> no actions of last week, so - done
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> Mostly usual suspects we know from last time - we still have:
<cpaelzer> - jeepney for jamespage
<cpaelzer> - uboot for waveform
<cpaelzer> One actual new entry rsync -> xxhash
<cpaelzer> Does anyone have context on this one?
<cpaelzer> It was in main in D&E, so it mist have been pre-MIRed right?
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/teckit/+bug/1803230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803230 in xxhash (Ubuntu) "[MIR] teckit & xxhash, new rdeps of texlive-bin" [High,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> that included xxhash
<didrocks> (hey)
<cpaelzer> didrocks: is desktop still subscribed and if so are you ok re-promoting it under the old bug?
<didrocks> cpaelzer: I can pass the message on, but being on holidays in a couple of hours, I canât sign up for tracking
<doko> but apparently would need a new subscriber
<doko> or another
<didrocks> IIRC there has been some discussions about the whole tex stack
<didrocks> like, not being very desktopish
<cpaelzer> or the newly added dependency in rsync has to be dropped
<didrocks> yeah
<cpaelzer> didrocks: as a suggestion, would you mind passing this on to the desktop team so that next week someone else is here to answer if you would take it (again) or not?
<didrocks> cpaelzer: sure, doing it
<cpaelzer> ok - from there we can go on then
<cpaelzer> thanks
<doko> cpaelzer: the better solution is to subscribe server or foundations to it
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> doko: if we want to keep it in I agree, but more often than not in such cases it end up no team wanting to own it
<cpaelzer> doko: but if you ask around and next week know if "you'd take it if desktop passes" then that would be ok as well
<cpaelzer> doko: we can sort out next week who of us will take a look after the desktop team is back with a clear answer on their state of it
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> this week we have a few
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> jeepney is known and in process by security
<cpaelzer> totally new we seem to have
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinih/+bug/1883890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883890 in libinih (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libinih" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> a lib for "not invented here" nice
<sarnold> :)
<cpaelzer> further we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libjcat/+bug/1884003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884003 in libjcat (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libjcat" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> a security lib for fwupd
<cpaelzer> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-teluguvijayam/+bug/1877134
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877134 in fonts-teluguvijayam (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-teluguvijayam" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> those three need to be assigned
<cpaelzer> I at least have a friedn speaking telugu in case we need to check the real font
<cpaelzer> so I'd volunteer for the last one
<cpaelzer> others for nig and jcat ?
<cpaelzer> nih and jcat
<cpaelzer> 3/3 fonts packages I looked at in the past where very awkward - I hop ethis one is better
<ddstreet> i can volunteer for one of them
<seb128> cpaelzer, note that the font got promoted already so I was unsure if the MIR was needed but I still filed it
<cpaelzer> oh really, maybe it was MIRed in the past already then
<cpaelzer>  fonts-teluguvijayam | 1.0-3 | groovy          | source, all
<cpaelzer> indeed seb128
<cpaelzer> thanks
<ddstreet> the 'libinih' name will probably confuse people, since upstart used 'libnih' which i believe is a totally different lib
<sarnold> I haven't done a mir from the side of the mir team yet; libjcat feels likely to be a good, small, starting point
<cpaelzer> it is INI parsing
<cpaelzer> sarnold: if you want that would be great, otherwise I'll do it as my fonts package just got cancelled
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: jcat for you then
<cpaelzer> sarnold: and you let me know  if you run into any trouble
<ddstreet> sounds good :)
<cpaelzer> assigned
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<seb128> cpaelzer, no, it was not MIRed in the past
<cpaelzer> Last update on incomplete bugs was on 2020-05-12, no need to bring this subtopic up in more detail
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> oh - interesting seb128
<cpaelzer> lets continue that in the next topic then
<cpaelzer> which is ...
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> doko: do we have any tracking who promoted something and why?
<cpaelzer> from the archive admin POV I mean?
<cpaelzer> seb128: ^^ ?
<didrocks> I think everyone can see this, no?
<seb128> cpaelzer, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-teluguvijayam/+publishinghistory
<didrocks> in the publishing hist
<doko> cpaelzer: see the publishing history
<seb128> vorlon did it
<seb128> but no reason recorded there though
<seb128> so best to check with Steve
<cpaelzer> well let me do the review then and either retrofit the Ack - or mention in case I don't agree
<seb128> right
<seb128> it made me wodner if there was an unstated policy that fonts don't need a MIR anymore
<seb128> would be nice :)
<cpaelzer> ok, this is on my plate to sort out then
<cpaelzer> vorlon: ^^ in case you see this feel free to contact me as well if you have bonus info :-)
<cpaelzer> we done with the meeting then, unless there is "other other business"
<cpaelzer> is there ?
<cpaelzer> ok we count out to 42 todady with Catalan numbers
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 14
<cpaelzer> 42
<cpaelzer> ok thanks everyone
<sarnold> nice, thanks cpaelzer, all :)
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 14:50:22 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-23-14.31.moin.txt
<ddstreet> o/
<ddstreet> bye all
<didrocks> thanks cpaelzer :)
<seb128> cpaelzer, I'm unsure to understand why https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html lists xxhash in the desktop section?
<seb128> if rsync is what pulls it in
<seb128> according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsync the subscribed teams are foundations and server
<cpaelzer> seb128: xxhash was subscribed by desktop before
<cpaelzer> and actually still has to be for it being in eoan main
<doko> seb128: because it's still desktop responsibilty for the release version
<cpaelzer> I ahve linked the old MIR above
<doko> released
<seb128> cpaelzer, doko, desktop-packages are still subscribed but I don't think it's fair for that package to fall of us only going forward, we do work to reduce our maintainance load and got dropped things back because they used to be on our set
<cpaelzer> which is exactly what was mentioned above
<seb128> also 19.10 is out of support
<seb128> I don't understand <doko> seb128: because it's still desktop responsibilty for the release version
<cpaelzer> see "[16:36] <doko> cpaelzer: the better solution is to subscribe server or foundations to it"
<seb128> it's not in main for any supported serie
<cpaelzer> there is no automatic unsubscribtion seb128
<seb128> right
<seb128> cpaelzer, sorry I joined mid meeting and saw your
<seb128> <cpaelzer> doko: we can sort out next week who of us will take a look after the desktop team is back with a clear answer on their state of it
<seb128> I was just stating that we are not interested to be listed for it
<cpaelzer> seb128: at the end there is the link to the log
<cpaelzer> so you can recover the rest
<cpaelzer> :-)
<seb128> right, I did now, it takes some time for the logs to update
<cpaelzer> seb128: if no release is left you might unsubscribe and if you want to be kind state so on the MIR bug why
<seb128> cpaelzer, ack, I will do that
<seb128> cpaelzer, commented
<vorlon> cpaelzer, seb128: was that a case of a font being promoted because it had been split out into a separate source package?  Those wouldn't normally need to go through MIR.  Or, yes, I could've assumed it didn't need an MIR because it was a font
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-06-25
<slyon> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 25 15:01:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<mclemenceau> o/
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> slyon mwhudson vorlon doko juliank bdmurray rbalint waveform xnox infinity tdaitx sil2100
<bdmurray> slyon: you win
<slyon> - Prepared ubuntu-bug/apport snap handling SRU, bug #1861082
<slyon> - debugged go/badger 2.0.3-1 armhf/32bit build, bug #1884753
<slyon>   * upstream is aware of recurring 32bit failures
<slyon>   * currently no fix available, they want to setup 32bit CI
<slyon>   * https://github.com/dgraph-io/badger/issues/1384
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Supporting community on IRC
<slyon> - Finished & merged last OpenVSwitch features & tests, PR#147
<slyon> - Reviewed community tunnel TLL PR#139
<slyon>   * waiting on contributor activity
<slyon> - Reviewed (big) community Wireguard PR#113
<slyon>   * waiting on contributor activity
<ubottu> bug 1861082 in snapd "[SRU] ubuntu-bug doesn't know how to file bugs against snaps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861082
<ubottu> bug 1884753 in badger (Ubuntu) "Fix armhf build" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884753
<bdmurray> slyon: all done?
<vorlon> bdmurray: please come back to me later
<slyon> - Prepared new upstream branch & some cleanup for NM plugin RFC
<slyon>    * gitlab.freedesktop.org/lukas.maerdian/NetworkManager/-/tree/nms-netplan
<slyon>  (done)
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> so this might take a bit
<juliank> * more work on grub, testing of changes
<juliank> * some apt debugging
<juliank> * synced nano
<juliank> * getting used to mattermost
<juliank> and I think that's it
<juliank> mattermost was distracting
<bdmurray> updated error tracker job for restarting dead retracers in production
<bdmurray> update-notifier removed avahi .local notification support. LP: #1874192
<bdmurray> merged new version libuv1 from debian - resolving autopkgtest failure
<bdmurray> created apport bug re package install failures LP: #1884148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874192 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Groovy) "Remove avahi .local notification support (no longer needed)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874192
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884148 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "dist upgrade process passes a number along with package to apport" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884148
<bdmurray> uploaded groovy, focal fixes for the above
<bdmurray> reviewed, merged apport MP support for ubuntu-bug w/ snaps  LP: #1884221
<bdmurray> applied apport patch for dump_acpi_tables.py LP: #1883027
<bdmurray> uploaded Focal SRU for dump_acpi_tables.py and ubuntu-bug w/ snaps
<bdmurray> submitted RT #126464 regarding adding of groovy images to jaas
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884221 in apport (Ubuntu) "`ubuntu-bug` fails with "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'project' referenced before assignment"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884221
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883027 in apport (Ubuntu Groovy) "dump_acpi_tables.py: fix incorrect output and change format" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883027
<bdmurray> finished resolving python-memprof autopkgtest failures
<bdmurray> SRU special review of fwupd
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance
<rbalint> * + proposed gardening
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * getting used to mattermost (ongoing :-))
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Added MIR for libubootenv-tool and libubootenv0.1 (LP: #1885142)
<waveform> * More work on pibootctl
<waveform> * Finished packaging of rpi-eeprom (LP: #1884748)
<waveform> * Tested rpi-eeprom tools (and configurations) on several models of Pi 4
<waveform> * Investigated UEFI status on Pi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1885142 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libubootenv-tool, libubootenv0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885142
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884748 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] rpi-eeprom" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884748
<waveform> * Finished writing proposal for removal of u-boot (including design of A/B boot for Core)
<waveform> * Set up matterircd ... it's nice!
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> 25th June:
<xnox> Uploaded a few things for CET enablement
<xnox> Built riscv64 core20 which store is rejecting
<xnox> Building LXD images for riscv64
<xnox> cd-boot-images / d-i deprecation:
<xnox> awaiting reviews/merges/deployments of debian-cd branches
<xnox> otherwise, all udebs are demoted, and empty debian-installer is parked in groovy-proposed
<xnox> matterleast
<xnox> reviewing grub bugfixes / testing changes
<xnox> casper SRU for .1 uploaded to unapproved
<xnox> Filed "travel" request to Linux Plumbers conference
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> tdaitx_:
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100>   * ...also reviewed snapd, that was a big one!
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Working on SR-IOV first boot improvements - still didn't find the right way
<sil2100>   * Revieved the OVS controller PR from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Reviewed the OVS patch-port (and more) PR from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Prepared updated OVS test packages for James and others
<sil2100>   * Looked into the new concept for ActivationMode networkd changes
<sil2100> - Released new old pi3/cm3/pi2 gadgets with the missing slots added
<sil2100> - Looked into why the core18 fails to upload to the store
<sil2100> - Prepared experimental MP for passing arbitrary model names to livecd-rootfs UC builds
<sil2100> - Prepared an MP for cdimage to enable ubuntu-appliances as a project (one possible approach)
<sil2100> - Prepared an experimental MP for enabling appliances via channels (second possible approach)
<sil2100> - Did some testing on the above branches
<sil2100> - Sent out a request for comment to Steve
<sil2100> - Prepared tracking documents for point-releases, set up meetings
<sil2100> - Coordinated a bit regarding kernel cycles for the pointy releases
<sil2100> - Looked into the sosreport SRU exception
<sil2100> - Mattermost!
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100: what is the status of the sosreport exception?
<bdmurray> vorlon: ready?
<vorlon> y
<vorlon>  * was off on Tuesday
<vorlon>  * working on the R transition and the connected gdal transition
<vorlon>  * cdimage, debian-cd reviews
<vorlon>  * archive adminnery (process-removals, new processing)
<vorlon>  * Canonical-internal chat transition
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> bdmurray: I am fine with it, but wanted maybe to come up with a nice SRU template with Eric
<sil2100> Thought that's not super critical
<bdmurray> sil2100: okay, telling other SRU team members that you are on it might be nice
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
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<bdmurray> bug 1865226
<ubottu> bug 1865226 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "gdm-smartcard pam config needs to be updated for Ubuntu and installed" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865226
<vorlon> I had asked on this bug why there's a pam task
<vorlon> xnox: explain yourself
<xnox> vorlon:  where?
<vorlon> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> xnox: on the above bug, that you opened a pam task on
<xnox> vorlon:  because we need to fix default pam things to include stuff in the right order, no?
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<xnox> (the ones shipped by pam)
<xnox> unless i am wrong
<vorlon> there is no mention of that in the bug
<xnox> hm, i guess should be set to incomplete
<vorlon> all the bug says is "the gdm-smartcard pam config is missing from the package"
<xnox> i thought it's needed, based on irc chat which is now gone
<vorlon> heh
<xnox> invalid then
<vorlon> bdmurray: next bug?
<bdmurray> bug 1878225 seems to already have a card tag
<ubottu> bug 1878225 in snapd (Ubuntu) "snapd.seeded.service waits forever (?) to have snaps seeded in LXD on s390x and arm64 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878225
<rbalint> bdmurray, i'm working with the relavant teams on that
<bdmurray> which package are we subscribed to here
<bdmurray> autopkgtest - is there a really a task for that package?
<rbalint> bdmurray, there may be
<bdmurray> okay
<rbalint> bdmurray, it is not clear were the failure is coming from
<bdmurray> bug 1884771
<ubottu> bug 1884771 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "Please publish cnf data for riscv64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884771
<sil2100> bdmurray: whoops!
<bdmurray> Well that seems useful so lets take it
<bdmurray> but not a priority
<bdmurray> bug 1860620
<ubottu> bug 1860620 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-desktop-minimal should not depend on mysql libs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860620
<vorlon> this is desktop team
<bdmurray> They aren't subscribed to ubuntu-meta
<vorlon> are they subscribed to ubuntu-meta right
<vorlon> assign, then?
<bdmurray> oh they are
<bdmurray> so a comment that they should look at it then
<vorlon> ok, comment added
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> the first 3 are desktop
<bdmurray> bug 1872560 is incomplete afaik
<ubottu> bug 1872560 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "integer overflow in whoopsie 0.2.69" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872560
<bdmurray> bug 1875062 - is that a dupe xnox?
<ubottu> bug 1875062 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[20.04] Keyboard layout not enabled immediately during installation when typing username/password" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875062
<bdmurray> lets take that for 20.04.1
<mclemenceau> k carded
<bdmurray> bug 1880193
<ubottu> bug 1880193 in autofs (Ubuntu) "autofs: Assertion 'set_remove(iterator->links, link) == link' failed at src/shared/userdb.c:314, function userdb_on_query_reply(). Aborting." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880193
<xnox> usecase is valid,
<xnox> probably should be fixed....
<bdmurray> let's take it and card it, but target it for focal-updates
<mclemenceau> ok carded
<xnox> cpaelzer_:  rbasak: ^ do you think server team can look at this autofs bug too?
<xnox> (server are also subscribers)
<xnox> mclemenceau:  you are
<bdmurray> bug 1883027 I already uploaded so the tag needs removing
<ubottu> bug 1883027 in apport (Ubuntu Groovy) "dump_acpi_tables.py: fix incorrect output and change format" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883027
<bdmurray> bug 1867007 we've talked about before ... should we tag it notfixing?
<ubottu> bug 1867007 in systemd (Ubuntu) "zfs-initramfs fails with multiple rpool on separate disks" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867007
<vorlon> it's marked low, so probably
<vorlon> (and I guess you can't get into this state via the installer)
<bdmurray> okay, let's change the tag
<bdmurray> bug 1571506
<ubottu> bug 1571506 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "update-initramfs should include firmware from /lib/firmware/updates" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571506
<cpaelzer_> rafaeldtinoco: you are looking at autofs atm, ^^ what is your answer to xnox's question?
<bdmurray> bug 1878596
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1878596 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878596). The error has been logged
<bdmurray> Well its a subiquity bug
<bdmurray> and assigned to us so card it
 * vorlon nods
<mclemenceau> done
<bdmurray> the openjdk-lts bug is incomplete
<bdmurray> bug 1678112
<ubottu> bug 1678112 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "lvm cache support lost in zesty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1678112
<bdmurray> the next two are about dchp server crashs
<bdmurray> no server team help here :-(
<vorlon> somehow we share isc-dhcp with security team, not server :)
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry on a call
<rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer_: I can take a look
<rafaeldtinoco> (autofs it is)
<bdmurray> well this definitely bears investigation / fixing
<vorlon> I would punt LP: #1872106 for now, it's not clear to me at a glance how common the affected configurations are and I don't think we actually have capacity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872106 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "isc-dhcp-server crashing constantly [Ubuntu 20.04]" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872106
<vorlon> ditto LP: #1872118
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872118 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "DHCP Cluster crashes after a few hours" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872118
<vorlon> can we leave these untriaged for now and revisit next week?
<bdmurray> sure, lets move onto proposed
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
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<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<xnox> cpaelzer_:  i wonder if ^^^^ are regressions from bind libs switcheroo. They didn't flip between /lib and /usr/lib right?
<xnox> (isc-dhcp bugs)
<vorlon> golang is still stuck due to hashicorp pain, I think we leave this with mwhudson
<vorlon> python-secretstorage is the MIR
<vorlon> vim is mine
<cpaelzer_> ahasenack: bind question ^^
<vorlon> libarchive is assigned to doko, carry-over
<vorlon> juliank: you still have make-dfsg?
<juliank> um, yeah
<vorlon> ok
<juliank> needs bisecting :/
<vorlon> cdebconf is doko, carry over
<vorlon> dbus, I don't see that we had discussed before; must have been stuck waiting on autopkgtest queues
<vorlon> but failure reproducible in release pocket so I'll hint it
<vorlon> glibc, who can take this?
<vorlon> (probably a lot of autopkgtest retries)
<vorlon> xnox: thanks for volunteering
<vorlon> fonts-font-awesome
<vorlon> why is a font regressing autopkgtests
<vorlon> and why do we own this font :)
<bdmurray> because its awesome?
<vorlon> every font is awesome, when you're part of a team
<vorlon> apparently it comes via sphinx
<vorlon> anyway, the failing autopkgtests are cross-arch, so it's probably a quick thing to verify they're regressed in release and hint them
<vorlon> I'm triggering the retries with --no-proposed now, who can follow up on the results?
<vorlon> slyon: ?
<xnox> ack
<slyon> ok
<vorlon> gcc-10, missing builds, I think this waits for doko
<vorlon> libtype-tiny-perl vs libgitlab-api-v4-perl: I've retriggered, waveform can you follow up on this?
<vorlon> waveform: and also lintian vs libtype-tiny-perl
<waveform> vorlon, ok
<vorlon> bdmurray: could you take ucf?
<bdmurray> okay
<vorlon> gcc-9, also build failures; xnox, you want this removed from -proposed?
<sil2100> ubuntu-image - I have a fix for this, let me upload it later
<sil2100> Missed notifications that it FTBFS
<xnox> vorlon:  yes please
<sil2100> (unit-test failure)
<vorlon> xnox: done
<vorlon> doko: ^^ gcc-9 backed out of groovy-proposed due to build failures fyi
<vorlon> sil2100: ubuntu-image ftbfs, are you on this?
<sil2100> vorlon: yes ^
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> bzip2 vs cmake + lintian... who doesn't have enough packages yet to look at? :)
<vorlon> I think I'll take this one
<vorlon> I think I'll just skip the rest of these for now
<vorlon> there's enough there for folks to work on, and we're down a few people, so I don't expect us to catch up on these before next week
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbalint> i'll be out tomorrow and on Monday
<waveform> same here
<waveform> (using up holidays and working on a bonkers huge piwheels transition)
<bdmurray> alright, thanks everybody
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 25 16:02:09 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-25-15.01.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<mclemenceau> o/
<vorlon> thanks!
<slyon> o/
<mwhudson> oh yes hashicorp pain
<mwhudson> i didn't get that far in my +1 shift, i guess i should look into that still
