#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-17
<kermit> no
 * tonyyarusso is chilling in Ubuntu Canada's IRC meeting - yay awkward dual membership!
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: It's sort of like dual citizenship...
<tonyyarusso> except less useful - no health care or voting rights
<sparklehistory> ah well, too bad that Ubuntu can't diagnose and treat aliments along with all the other cool stuff it does
<Takyoji> Wasn't it recently approved that cable providers can use selective output control?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-18
 * nnonix throws tomatoes
<nnonix> Getting Empathy to do IRC sucks.
<bdunnette> nnonix: Funny, I'm perfectly content with Pidgin. :)
<nnonix> I wasn't happy with pidgin either ... but Empathy has a UI bug that keeps you from adding IRC as the first account.
<nnonix> ..... so it sucks MORE.
<bdunnette> Cute.
<bdunnette> IMO, Empathy's an example of Canonical's occasional "Latest andâ¦ no, wait, just latest" emphasis.
<bdunnette> Like pushing out Getting Things Gnome as a "Featured Application" when it's still pretty flaky.
<nnonix> How can it be "featured" if it's not installed by default?
<bdunnette> If you open the Software Center, it's under the big, blaze-orange "Featured Applications" banner.
<nnonix> Oh ... the Software Center .... I avoid that.
<nnonix> Oh look at that.
<bdunnette> Right, but I think it's the first place Linux newbies would lookâ¦ and it might lead them into some shaky software.
<nnonix> Never used GTG ... wouldn't know ... but if it really sucks, you would be correct.
<bdunnette> No, it's not REALLY bad, but it's clearly still immature (like Empathy) â I'm willing to put up with some bugs, but not everyone may be, so seems silly to choose a less-stable default (Empathy).
<nnonix> What was their reasoning .. video support?
<nnonix> Ahh ... it replaced both pidgin & ekiga.
<nnonix> and well ... aside from the UI bug with the first account ... Empathy appears to be working ok ... so far.
<bdunnette> Right, but choosing a default that's "mostly OK" rather than an excellent, solid, cross-platform app still seems odd to me.
<bdunnette> Yeah, maybe the video support was a deal-breaker for them.
<nnonix> I understand ... change sucks especially when it affects you adversely.
<nnonix> So what do we all think of the latest release of Macbuntu?
<nnonix> .... and it's purpley goodness/badness.
<bdunnette> MacBuntu?
<nnonix> The new theme and button movement.
<nnonix> I thought the decision to move the windows buttons to the left was fine ... their choice .. but to do so without providing an easy way to move them back to the right (considering some 90% of computer users expect them on the right) was pretty dumb.
<nnonix> ... not very considerate.
<rlaager> nnonix: You can move them back with gconf-editor. It's not the easiest, but I'm sure by now there are a million blog posts on the Internet that give you the steps (or single terminal command).
<rlaager> Plus, they don't *want* to allow you to move them back, as they intend to use the space they freed up for other widgets. If you move them back, then what happens?
<rlaager> I thought it was arbitrary (and thus dumb) until I found out the future plans.
<nnonix> Their future plans need to support those who move the buttons back to the right.
<Obsidian1723> heh good luck with that
<nnonix> I support their right to make changes ... but expect them to be considerate.
<nnonix> ... so much for my expectations.
<Obsidian1723> yeah, well Canonoical will do what it wants - like Microsoft.
<rlaager> Honestly, having the buttons on the left isn't that big of a deal.
<Obsidian1723> yeah, it is.
<nnonix> Well I'll give you this ... we all have one less reason not to buy a mac.
<Obsidian1723> Don't move the cheese. Don't change the living room
<Obsidian1723> Mac is more proprietary than Windows... more reason to NOT use a Mac.
<rlaager> WTF? At least the kernel and the command line tools on the Mac are Free.
<Obsidian1723> can you copmpile OS X from source?
<rlaager> No. You can compile the kernel and most of the command line tools from source. Can you compile any part of Windows from source?
<nnonix> I just said "one less reason". There are still reasons.
<Obsidian1723> :D
<Obsidian1723> What Canonical has done is given Windoers users one more reason NOT to move ti Linux.
<Obsidian1723> Out of all operating systems, onlyu Mac OS X and Ubuntu 10x use that funky left method. Joe 6pack who DOES move to Ubuntu, isn't going to want to gconf the edit to "fix" it :(
<Obsidian1723> Sad, but true.
<Obsidian1723> My box's HDD died, I had to replace the drive and I am using Lucid on the desktop (no upgrades) and on the latop now (with upgrades - which made it bogged down), so Lucid has some more work needed on it.
<Obsidian1723> Sorry if Im a bit jaded, it's just MANY people screamed over the move and Canonical refuses to listen and ignores the community of users, plus NOT listening to what people want seems oppisite of the Ubuntu mantra of "Humanity to others".
<Obsidian1723> Its bass ackwards
<nnonix> They thing is, they want to have notifications on the right some time in the future .... so they move the window buttons to the left now ... which I think is dumb ..... simply because it seems arbitrary. If the buttons moved to the left once the notification system is in place ... then people could easily see the reasoning.
<bdunnette> Yeah, it's annoying that they changed itâ¦ but I still don't think it's the deal-breaker you do (having the "Applications" menu at the top-left, instead of "Start" on the lower left, seems much more disruptive to Windows vetsâ¦)
<bdunnette> But I'm with nnonix: the Apple-style "trust us, you'll love it!" response is a bit off-putting.
<nnonix> bdunnette: true
<bdunnette> All right, Obsidian1723: I nominate you to head a federal bureau that will define all UI standards.
<nnonix> lol
<bdunnette> Anyone caught moving the cheese will be taken out back and shot. :)
<bdunnette> I'll join you in the Department of Cheese Monitoring, FWIW.
<Obsidian1723> YES!!!
<Obsidian1723> I am MOTUI - Master Of The User Interface.
<nnonix> So, who's got an Android phone?? I'm loving mine.
<Obsidian1723> Ja vohl
<Obsidian1723> Not me. I would like one though...
<bdunnette> Seriously, though, I think this illustrates what's good about Open Source: if you don't like the GNOME changesâ¦ just use KDE.
<Obsidian1723> Dude at FGTC has one
<Obsidian1723> b - exactly
<bdunnette> Obsidian1723: We had 4 at a recent meeting. :)
<Obsidian1723> Only biatch with that isw KDE uses more overhead than Gnome.
<Obsidian1723> NICE!!
<nnonix> KDE kpisses kme koff kwith kall kits kbuttons.
<Obsidian1723> Onced I close on the house, I will get that router up and going etc too.
<bdunnette> nnonix: Then use LXDE, or XFCE, or...
<Obsidian1723> ki khear kthat
<Obsidian1723> Anyone ever use Moon OS?
<bdunnette> Point being: choice is good, and unless you're the one coding the UI, it's not gonna be perfect for you.
<Obsidian1723> True..
<Obsidian1723> I did hear that GNOME 30 WILL support the GNOME 2x panels, the "old" look to.
<Obsidian1723> Which is cool.
<Obsidian1723> 3.0
<bdunnette> Yeah, that's a nice concession to those of us used to the "old" look.
<Obsidian1723> yeah...
<Obsidian1723> I prefer it actually.
<bdunnette> Though I do like what I've seen/used of gnome-shell.
<Obsidian1723> Hey did I tell ya? I converted my borther's kid's PC
<bdunnette> Sweet!
<Obsidian1723> The HDD died, so I replaced it, set them up with it
<Obsidian1723> One parent account w/full access and one kid's account locked down.
<Obsidian1723> I hoipe to convert the entire house over to it.
<bdunnette> Yeah, that's what I did for my niece & nephew.
<bdunnette> But the parents keep freaking out and asking for Windows.
<Obsidian1723> I try and convert people over from Windows because it's less repeat work fixing the same old crapola.
<bdunnette> Indeed.
<Obsidian1723> I dont like fixing the same old users.
<bdunnette> Especially for parents, I think the access control's betterâ¦ and they can even put e.g. DansGuardian on it for filtering, if they want.
<Obsidian1723> yeah, I used Pessulkuys
<Obsidian1723> pessulus
<Obsidian1723> Of course you really need it at the router level, so if they use a compatible router, like a WRT54G, I reflash it with DD-WRT
<Obsidian1723> or recommend pfSense.
<bdunnette> Hmm, niceâ¦ we should try that the next time FGTC sends out a "kiosk" system; we just did the last one by hand.
<Obsidian1723> on a 2 NIC PC
<bdunnette> Right.
<Obsidian1723> pessulus and iceweasel make for a GREAT kioisk
<Obsidian1723> oh.. once we move to 10.04.1LTS, we need to install iptables-persistent
<Obsidian1723> nice to have :D
<bdunnette> Hmmâ¦ is there any point to it unless you've already set up iptables rules?
<Obsidian1723> yes
<Obsidian1723> iptables by default doesnt stick on reboot.
<Obsidian1723> You can do a workaround to make it stick, whioch I did under earlier versions
<Obsidian1723> basically under the old way, you just reload the iptables.rules document at startup
<bdunnette> Right, I get thatâ¦ but is there a certain (default) set of iptables rules it'll load?
<bdunnette> I mean, it's useful mainly on any machine that's actually acting as a firewall, right?  Or are you suggesting every desktop have some iptables setup?
<bdunnette> Or does it already?
<Obsidian1723> It does not by default, you need to sudo iptables enable
<Obsidian1723> I think yes, firewall at the router level, but also firewall the desktop
<Obsidian1723> www.nmap-online.,com try that once
<nnonix> sudo apt-get purchase R1200GS Adventure
<nnonix> sudo apt-get vacation 30 days in Alaska
<Obsidian1723> I scanned my box, all that was open is port 113
<Obsidian1723> which is ident
<bdunnette> Ah, so you want to deny all incoming traffic?
<bdunnette> Doesn't that conflict with your desire to have e.g. VPNs work out-of-the-box?
<bdunnette> Not that it's a bad idea, security-wise...
<bdunnette> Maybe something like http://gufw.tuxfamily.org/ plus iptables-persistent would be a good recommendation?
<Obsidian1723> I think so.
<Obsidian1723> good call :D
<nnonix> I'd like to see some serious Gmail/Google Apps integration. MeMenu, default mail client, etc.
<nnonix> Hell, other services as well.
<Obsidian1723> not so much for the Google apps, they, like Facebook, are anti-privacy.,
<Obsidian1723> Not to mention Google may get investigatged for sniffing wifi.
<Obsidian1723> but atleast Google doesnt break into your house like Apple does.
<bdunnette> I'd just like something more light-weight for calendar and mail notification than Evolution.
<Obsidian1723> yeah
<nnonix> Well name your service, but it should be easy to integrate them into Gnome. Default mail, notifications, etc.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-19
 * tonyyarusso is having fun installing Lucid on the main machine
<Takyoji> of?
<Takyoji> and is that literal or sarcastic? :P
<tonyyarusso> a little of both :P
<tonyyarusso> and I fail to parse your "of?"
<tonyyarusso> I'm doing LVM plus LVM on top of RAID for the first time, so the partitioning took a while.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> omg
<Alpha_Cluster> i ran out of ram guys
<Alpha_Cluster> i actually fille dup 4 gigs somehow
<Alpha_Cluster> crap its climing agian
<tonyyarusso> kill firefox, gwibber, and empathy
<tonyyarusso> and nautilus
<Alpha_Cluster> well i turned my swap on
<kermit> i restart firefox every 3 days
<Alpha_Cluster> i forgot to after it got turned fof for smething
<Alpha_Cluster> i kileld chrome and got a gig back i think
<Alpha_Cluster> doesnt help i am compiling KDE4 in a chroot environment
<tonyyarusso> lol, no
<Alpha_Cluster> webkit killed my machines performance!
<tonyyarusso> oh the irony
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah iknow
<tonyyarusso> http://files.tonyyarusso.com/sudbury-lucid-20100518-3.png :) :)
<Takyoji> Yaaaaay
<Takyoji> I bring good news!
<Takyoji> http://ajaxian.com/archives/webm-the-on2-codec-is-here-with-support-from-google-mozilla-and-opera
<Takyoji> and yay for xkcd: http://xkcd.com/742/
 * Obsidian1723 Dump Mono - sudo apt-get purge libmono* libgdiplus cli-common libglitz-glz1 libglitz1
<Takyoji> Gah, if only I had resources to assist with explaining the concept of FOSS and Linux
<Takyoji> because I think I may have another person I could interest in with Ubuntu
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-20
<nnonix> What does it mean when 15% of the people in the room are bots? Do Minnesotans not like Linux .... or IRC? Hmmmmmmm.
<nnonix> Make that 17%
<Takyoji> Interesting: http://doodle.com/pgabxqswksmgsx8g
<Takyoji> a time-poll system being used by the Ubuntu Manual team
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-21
<Takyoji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kddqINA1vOA :P
<Obsidian1723> help. See http://computersupport.pastebin.com/7H17D9k9 for detials, please
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: add-apt-repository
<Obsidian1723> ok
<Obsidian1723> that ads it eh?
<Obsidian1723> So like sudo add-apt-repository remastersys  ??
<Obsidian1723> or
<Obsidian1723> sudo add-apt-repsoitory deb http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/repository karmic/
<Obsidian1723> ???
<Obsidian1723> Which is the proper format??
<Obsidian1723> sudo add-apt-repository remastersys
<Obsidian1723> or
<Obsidian1723> sudo add-apt-repsoitory deb http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/repository karmic/
<Obsidian1723> NOTE: this application is NOT in the Ubuntu repos, its 3rd party. I aimagine for ones in the Ubuntu repo, it's just sudo add-apt-repository NAME
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: You need the deb line unless it's a PPA.
<Obsidian1723> ok so the second line like that.. PPA meaning on a launchapd site/PPA or the Ubuntu repo PPA or both?
<tonyyarusso> There's not such thing as an "Ubuntu repo PPA"...  PPAs are only stuff on Launchpad.
 * Obsidian1723 http://thereadedwin.com/2010/05/17/how-linux-save-a-fast-food-giant/
 * Obsidian1723 http://therealedwin.com/2010/05/17/how-linux-save-a-fast-food-giant/ <-- fixed link
 * Takyoji reads
<Takyoji> Wooo
<Takyoji> otherwise interesting story
 * Obsidian1723 LORDY its Friday. ok for the 3rtd and FINAL time, the correct link.....  http://therealedwin.com/2010/05/17/how-linux-saved-a-fast-food-giant/
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-22
<Takyoji> Anyone know if there's such a thing as bitlbee for Jabber/XMPP?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Transports!
<tonyyarusso> For instance, I have a Jabber account set up such that when I log in I get both the jabber account and my AIM account logged in.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-05-23
 * Obsidian1723 Anyone here know which is the better method to us (and why) to send video over CAT5e? S-Video or HDMI? I don't want video or audio attenuation/degredation.
<Takyoji> Woo http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/05/23/154218/First-Pandora-Console-Reaches-Customer
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-05-16
<Takyoji> I guess I've finally found my answer after literally years of searching for a universal CMS-like system: Django
<fisch246> what's a good program for RSS feeds
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: GUI or CLI?  Standalone or browser plugin?
<fisch246> gui
<fisch246> and it needs video support
<tonyyarusso> fisch246: I would normally answer Liferea then.  I don't know about the video support, but I would guess it is "likely".  Try it and report back.  :)
<FloatingGoat> hi
<tonyyarusso> Hey
<FloatingGoat> hey tonyyarusso
<fisch246> o hey
<fisch246> o btw tony... it links me to the page in chromium... which is perfect for what i need :D
<FloatingGoat> dannngggiiittt
<fisch246> what's p?
<fisch246> s/p/up
<fisch246> sorry i was saying good night to my friend
<fisch246> she started puking D:
<fisch246> she drank too much tonight
<fisch246> wow... f-ing kidding me...
<fisch246> this 360 comes with built wireless
<fisch246> built-in*
<fisch246> well bed time, night all :)
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-05-17
<fisch246> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/os-xgnome-3-style-dialog-sheets-coming-to-ubuntu-11-10/
<fisch246> someone explain to me what's new about this?
<Takyoji> Just the style of it
<Takyoji> as well as darkening the window of the application it spawned from
<Takyoji> and I am now forever enlightened and surprised: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser
<fisch246> i'll read that when i get to it :P
<fisch246> i'm catching up on slashdot right now
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-05-19
<FloatingGoat> hello?
<fisch246> it's nice to know Ubuntu doesn't recycle OPs >.>
<fisch246> at least not all the time
<fisch246> the fact that the same OPs are in basically every channel concerns me -__-
<fisch246> especially when all the OPs in the Ubuntu Community have an extreme distaste for me >.>
<fisch246> possibly rww and tonyyarusso are the only OPs i actually get along with
<fisch246> non-OP love + easy tongue + willing to stand up for one self + talkative = not a single authority figure will ever respect you
<FloatingGoat> hellooooo
