#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-13
<jenkins> night all
<Muscovy> Since it would make Quickshot far easier, is there a way to cycle the quickshot user through each system language for each screenshot?
<bilalakhtar> humphreybc: hey! Why did you deactivate my membership in Ohso?
<ChrisWoollard> morning all
<nisshh> hey ChrisWoollard :)
<ChrisWoollard> Hey nish.
<ChrisWoollard> or rather nisshh
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: im upgrading to maverick beta, gonna see how it goes
<ChrisWoollard> I just commited a fix for bad enlish on you dev manual ;)
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: oh, cool thanks.
<ChrisWoollard> When is that going to be released?
<nisshh> well
<nisshh> we were hoping for maverick
<nisshh> but it doesnt look good
<nisshh> so looks like we will have to plan to get a release out for 10.04
<nisshh> i mean 11.04
<ChrisWoollard> Ok
<ChrisWoollard> I do even wonder if we will get this manual out on time
<nisshh> its going to be close, thats all im saying :)
<ChrisWoollard> We have already missed the writing freeze haven't we?
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: actually, i dont know
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: i cant remember the dates
<ChrisWoollard> It was 10th September
<nisshh> ah yea
<flan> If anyone noticed, please ask Muscovy to ping me when he gets on.
<flan> notices*
<nisshh> rickspencer3: hey, have you done any work on shortening the python chapter for the dev manual?
<rickspencer3> nisshh, nah, sorry man
<rickspencer3> super duper busy these days :(
<nisshh> rickspencer3: yea, i know the feeling
<rickspencer3> :)
<nisshh> rickspencer3: also, thanks heaps for that work on Pytask, that is going to save me hours of figuring stuff out :)
<rickspencer3> nisshh, np
<nisshh> :)
<shaunm> any quickshot people around?
<vish> flan: ^^
<jenkins> godbyk: ping
<ChrisWoollard> evening Jenkins
<jenkins> hey ChrisWoollard
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: ! do you know about screenshots fo this release?
<ChrisWoollard> not really. I guess we should collect some new ones if required
<jenkins> well the theme is different so they all need to be redone. I have NO clue which ones are leaving/gaining this release
<ChrisWoollard> I did hear rumours that the wallpaper may not be the final version either.
<jenkins> so did i
<ChrisWoollard> I so hope so. It looks like a youth has put orange spray paint on my desktop
<ChrisWoollard> according to http://humphreybc.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/dev-infographic.png
<ChrisWoollard> screenshots are to be done around the 30th
<jenkins> they would take me a couple of hours the install ones are the hard ones
<ChrisWoollard> So maybe an agenda item should  be added to the meeting regarding screenshots
<jenkins> smart idea
 * jenkins is not very awake atm
<ChrisWoollard> I'll add it
<jenkins> I will do my best to make it real life is taking over so much
<ChrisWoollard> I know the feeling. I have spent ages reading the updated ubuntone / rhthmbox chapters. now i am sleepy.
<ChrisWoollard> I have had the same problem. I missed about 2/3 weeks because of real life.
<jenkins> I can't wait to get back to uni and have more time for ubuntu
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<jenkins> but I will miss all my scouts stuff :(
<ChrisWoollard> Agenda updated
<jenkins> ta
<ChrisWoollard> ncluded Ubuntu 10.10 release, is uTouch 1.0, Ubuntuâs new multi-touch and gesture stack.
<ChrisWoollard> that is an extract from the manual
<ChrisWoollard> Can you think of a better term other than stack?
<jenkins> included*
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<jenkins> ability recognition just thinking of words
<ChrisWoollard> framework
<jenkins> tool
<jenkins> framework works
<jenkins> feature?
<ChrisWoollard> or maybe
 * jenkins chris writes a long word
<ChrisWoollard> s/Ubuntuâs new multi-touch and gesture stack/This adds multi-touch and gesture support to Ubuntu
<jenkins> second one is loads better
<ChrisWoollard> I might actually re-write the whole paragraph.
<ChrisWoollard> simplicity is the way forward
<jenkins> i agree,
<ChrisWoollard> I love how people put comments in the tex files saying that they wrote that bit.
<jenkins> I only did it at the top of mine because everyone else was. Are people doing it for senteces/paragraphs?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<ChrisWoollard> mostly paragraphs
<jenkins> interesting
<jenkins> nothing against it
<godbyk> I'll be sure to annotate each sentence I touch with my name.
<jenkins> lol
<jenkins> hey godbyk
<godbyk> hey, jenkins
<godbyk> upgrade to TL2010 yet? :)
<ChrisWoollard> I hope those comments don't get into the pdf
<jenkins> got your e-mail, I am happy to keep maitaing the ppa I will have to remember how to do it. I pulled the last ppa as it was owend by the giant team we had. I will work on it for the week end
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: As long as they're actually comments, they won't.
<godbyk> jenkins: cool
<godbyk> Less work for me is always a good thing. :-)
<jenkins> I am unsure if it will work though, as the maintainers have not updated it in debian and I don't know if they have to modify the packaging stuff
<jenkins> I will get back into it properly next year but stuff like this i can do ocasionally
<godbyk> Next year?
<jenkins> when i start uni and have more time to dedicate like i could last release.
<jenkins> latex ppa i can fit in maintaing here and there
<ChrisWoollard> What do you think
<ChrisWoollard> "New to Ubuntu in the 10.10 release, is uTouch 1.0. This feature adds multi-touch and gesture supporton supported hardware such as touchpads, touchscreen monitorsi, and tablets. Touch is included in all three releases of Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Netbook, Desktop and Light."
<jenkins> space between support and on
<ChrisWoollard> spotted that already. Thanks
<jenkins> monitors no i
<jenkins> uTouch is included ?
<godbyk> We prefer serial commas.
<godbyk> You probably don't need the comma in the first sentence.
<godbyk> 'support on supported' is kind of awkward.
<jenkins> light editions." ?
<godbyk> multi-touch could probably be closed up.
<jenkins> at the end
<godbyk> perhaps a colon instead of a comma to introduce the list at the end?
<ChrisWoollard> wow. that was more comments than i expected
<jenkins> its a good sentence chris, we are giving constructive comments i hope
<ChrisWoollard> next time i will spell check it first
<jenkins> lol, sorry. I am not usually good at spelling
<godbyk> last sentence: should it be 'uTouch is included..'?
<jenkins> said that :P
<jenkins> don't know the answer
<godbyk> ah, damn. didn't see that one. sorry, jenkins. :)
<jenkins> np
<ChrisWoollard> I think it is included. I am fairly sure that it will change again in the next version due to a disagreement with gnome and canonical
<ChrisWoollard> Maybe I will just get rid of the term uTouch. It is too compilcated for new people.
<godbyk> It'd be nice if they'd stop coming up with new UIFes so we don't have to worry about 'em.
<ChrisWoollard> i love vi
<ChrisWoollard> :set spell
<ChrisWoollard> thanks for that one godbyk
<jenkins> utouch = touch support
<godbyk> vi is awesome.
<jenkins> yea so godbyk on the latex stuff i will set up a new ppa asap
<jenkins> basically is the short story
<godbyk> jenkins: no worries.
<godbyk> For those who installed it manually, they can upgrade using tlmgr easily enough.
<daker> hi
<jenkins> how do you spell perminet as in having a fixed abode ?
<jenkins> hey daker
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. How about this
<ChrisWoollard> New in Ubuntu 10.10 is multi-touch and gesture support. This allows you to utilize the latest multi-touch hardware with Ubuntu.
<ChrisWoollard> it is plain and simple with spelling errors/
<ChrisWoollard> I will get rid of the -'s though
<jenkins> much more simple, how do you get it to work though?
<ChrisWoollard> Good question.
<ChrisWoollard> I have no idea.
<ChrisWoollard> hopefully there are options in prefs or such like
 * jenkins starts to try and find the setting
<ChrisWoollard> It appears as a seperate package in the tree
<ChrisWoollard> Maybe it only gets installed if you have the correct hardware?
<ChrisWoollard> If only I had a cool mouse to play with
<jenkins> what is this "input method switcher" http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/ivh11kna/InputMethodSwitcherver1.20ubuntu2_02.png what do any of the enties mean?
<jenkins> (23:25:34) jenkins: *entries
<jenkins> not a clue I don't have a touch screen
<ChrisWoollard> We may need to find somebody that has a mac to test it and explain how it works?
<ChrisWoollard> If i get time tomorrow I will try to talk to somebody.
<jenkins> sorry  I got nothing after" We may need to find somebody that has a mac to test it and explain how it works?"
<jenkins> did i miss much
<jenkins> there is something about chromium/mavrick or my laptop that causes it to die halfway though using it
<jenkins> I held my laptop out the window to get the wifi back as it is in the other part of the house
<ChrisWoollard> i said
<ChrisWoollard> If i get time tomorrow I will try to talk to somebody.
<ChrisWoollard> goodnight
<jenkins> night ChrisWoollard
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-14
<flan> jenkins needs more clearing his inbox.
<daker> aloha everybody
<thorwil> o/
<popey> lo
<popey> hows the manual coming along?
<daker> popey, i think the manual team is less motivated than before
<nisshh> daker: i think our activity and motivation has been lower because humphreybc hasnt been around to motivate us as much
<daker> nisshh, +1
<thorwil> rather typical 2nd iteration issue
<nisshh> daker: i was talking to ben yesterday and he said he feels really guilty about not being around much, but apparently he is insanely busy
<daker> poor ben
<nisshh> heh, yea
<vish> nisshh: well, its more that everyone's priority has shifted .. ;)
<bilalakhtar> Why is ben busy?
<nisshh> vish: yes, that too i imagine
<bilalakhtar> Busy in tweeting?
<popey> it's a shame really
<daker> bilalakhtar, ya maybe
<popey> we saw this coming before the project even started
<vish> popey: :)
 * bilalakhtar just saw his tweets
<bilalakhtar> popey: :D
<nisshh> bilalakhtar: he didnt say, but i think its just a lot of stuff going on for him
<popey> well, its school time for him
<bilalakhtar> To say, he hates Ubuntu some times
<popey> it was holiday last cycle
<nisshh> popey: yea, thats true, im at college right now also, so he would be too
<bilalakhtar> humphreybc: non-existant ping
<nisshh> heh
 * bilalakhtar is enjoying the school vacations
 * daker has a lot staff to for Ubuntu
<daker> oh :s
<daker> so we need this meeting asap
<daker> we have less than 4weeks
<popey> even less than that :)
<daker> ya
 * jenkins endures the pain of slow svn reops
<nisshh> jenkins: ah while your here, have you done any more work on the dev manual?
<nisshh> and i also need to talk to you about quickshot for the dev manual
 * jenkins hides
<nisshh> hehe
<jenkins> no i had not forgotten but I have not done any
<jenkins> feel free to finish it if you wish. I am happy to do it
<nisshh> jenkins: ok, thats cool
<jenkins> but could not set a date on it
<nisshh> thats fine
<jenkins> near future, cool
<nisshh> jenkins: you are still planning on doing it though?
<jenkins> yes
<nisshh> cool, thats what i was hoping
<jenkins> I just took over a scout group here which is giving me plenty to do :)
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> jenkins: now about quickshot
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> its released but no one knows what screenshots are need this release
<nisshh> sometime before the end of this year, we are going to need screenshots for the dev manual
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> o right thats cool quickshot is easy to set up for other projects now
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> jenkins: but, dont the screenshots get uploaded to a server?
<nisshh> problem is, i dont have a server
<nisshh> jenkins: godbyk's server is being used atm right?
<nisshh> for the manual screenshots?
<jenkins> yep you can then approve them in the server interface. Hmm you will have to  find someone who does. Well we have not installed the latest on kevins server unless flan has helped with that. We are still using the dev server (flans)
<nisshh> ah ok
<nisshh> jenkins: im sure godbyk would agree to host both manuals screenshots
<jenkins> yea as long as we take them down asap after apporving to save space
<nisshh> once its all setup with the new version
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> jenkins: the dev manual should have far less screenshots than the other manual
<nisshh> we will probably have < 20
<jenkins> thats good
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> jenkins: also, dont worry too much about getting your chapters done too soon, we wont get a maverick release of the dev manual out anyway
<jenkins> k I will do it
<nisshh> which is a shame, but its ok
<jenkins> this could be fun I need to work out how to leave my laptop running connected to the wifi for 3~4 days solid with out my parents finding out or mavrick crashing
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> jenkins: just hope your parents are complete idiots when it comes to computers
<jenkins> they are but they are likly to notice my laptop getting hot with light flashing. My dad loves saving electricity
<nisshh> jenkins: oh man, yea, my parents dont like me having my computer on when its not doing anything
<jenkins> i also think maverick may not last as long, hopefully you can recover svn dowloads
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> I have worked it out its banshee that is casuing my pc issues
<daker> hi
<nisshh> hey daker :)
<jenkins> hey daker
<daker> jenkins, hi i use fr as a default language, how can i run qs with "en" as default language without touching my default language
<jenkins> daker: I will set up fr as a lanugae on the server for you
<daker> jenkins, cool
<daker> jenkins, fr_FR
<jenkins> flan can we make it so that they server allows you to do any language? so that we don't need to create an entry every time?
<jenkins> thanks daker
<jenkins> I have added fr an en is down for english and that works for me ( en_Gb)
<daker> jenkins, works
<jenkins> cool
<jenkins> its true http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/the-new-ubuntu-10-10-default-wallpaper/
<sebsebseb> jenkins: now we won't be off topic
<jenkins> lol, I was kinda expecting that supprised we got away with it for so long
<sebsebseb> and ah yeah there was and now is, a second vrsion of the manual for Lucid
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well guntburt isn't an op, but  he was right, we were off otpic
<jenkins> yep maverick is on its way,
<jenkins> yea he was right :)
<jenkins> how are you finding mavrick?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well Mandriva for me on here since November :)
<sebsebseb> however
<sebsebseb> getting a bit bored of this current version, since didn't change much since the previous
<sebsebseb> and I have done some 10.10 virtual machine trying
<sebsebseb> desktop edition, even tried to do Unity, but nah
<sebsebseb> Unity doesn't like virtual machines
<sebsebseb> it also doesn't like  Nivida cards without the propritary driver
<jenkins> I see, I am not a fan of unity it does not like my laptop its very SLOW on here. my laptop is of a reasonable spec
<sebsebseb> and its really for a netbook, but can run it on a desktop,  jono said he has
<sebsebseb> also apparently its not that stable at the moment
<jenkins> I had the propritary driver installed and still slow
<sebsebseb> jenkins: a normal lap top?
<jenkins> yep 2.1 ghz dual core 2 gb ram
<sebsebseb> I haven't been that keen on Ubuntu since 9.04,  don't like it that much anymore, but
<sebsebseb> I do want to try Unity some how, and I  might have to install it on real hardware to do that
<sebsebseb> unless the Live CD works on a lap top we have here
<jenkins> unity frustrating. It looks good better looking than gnome 3 at the moment. but I could not find very much of the systems menu or any wine stuff
<sebsebseb> jenkins: and yeah if I put Ubuntu back on here, with 10.10 this time round,  I don't think it would last that long,  because there are plenty of other good distros out there, that are more for me, that would all be good to run on real hardware in my case
<sebsebseb> I been running Gnome Shell  on a pretty much daily basis, in my Mandriva 2010.1  since I upgraded it from 2010.0
<jenkins> I tried fedora again, but I actually like all the ubuntu mods to gnome memenu etc. I appear to use them as I missed them when in fedora
<sebsebseb> yes its the slightly older version, the version from March,  but  yeah its alright, does lack features at the moment, but I quite like it
<sebsebseb> espesially how it shows apps
<sebsebseb> I don't like the downstreame Ubuntu only Gnome changes, however
<jenkins> I keep testing gnome 3 but I will have to wait untill it is out as I am not convinced yet
<sebsebseb> I seem to be ok with the sound menu, which I haven't tried with actsaul music yet
<sebsebseb> I have had the sound menu in vm of  course, and seen video of it as well and such
<jenkins> I have not used the sound menu as I use banshee apart form when it eats mylaptop
<sebsebseb> and yeah exactly soudn menu doesn't work with Banshee yet?
<sebsebseb> last.fm  support in Banshee has been broken for me in this distro ever since I started using it, which is ashame really, but ah well
<jenkins> well there is a devlopment version with support form it but that has not been released yet. I am trying to avoid ppas at the  moment
<sebsebseb> and well I done every Ubuntu release since the second release in 2005, on real hardware, so why not 10.10 as well
<sebsebseb> and  like I say I want to try Unity on this desktop
<sebsebseb> also the whole ppa thing with Ubuntu, thats something I never did like much at all
<jenkins> I don't really use last fm not seen the point really
<sebsebseb> and ppa's can mess up peoples system as well
<jenkins> ppas are needed as the packages are not updated enough. but like you say they can be a pain
<sebsebseb> so I hope the manual isn't recommending to use ppa's at all :)
<sebsebseb> distros such as PC Linux OS are rolling releases though,  and nice and user friendly, since the nice graphical Mandriva Control centre and such,  since it was a fork to begin with
<sebsebseb> so yeah OpenShot and other dsitros
<jenkins> I don;t think it is after all it is a begineers manual
<jenkins> I would like a rolling release effect in ubuntu
<sebsebseb> maybe PCLinuxOS would add to their repos for example, I mean I even know a guy online and quite well, who  was really into Mandriva, and now is more about PC Linux OS, and has been doing packaging for them for quite a while as well
<sebsebseb> so it seems he just packages whatever he wants basically, and ends up in the PC Linux OS repos
<jenkins> quickshot maybe?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: exactly
<sebsebseb> thats wht I mean
<sebsebseb> jenkins: however this particular guy also  doesn't like Ubuntu much at all, but even so he might do it
<jenkins> that would be great, we have not really tested it this release as it only came out two days ago. so may be a while yet
<jenkins> we did a complete rewrite as the last one was done in a month
<jenkins> brb
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well he packages what they want for PC Linux OS, and then other people take it apart, and check that its not malicious or something
<sebsebseb> what he wants above, not they
<jenkins> I will give you a shout when we are happy it is tested enough and we can see if he will include it. Is there a pc os docs team?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: I don't know that much about how they make PC Linux OS, but the IRC is nice,  and support tends to be done on the forum and such, can can talk devs and yeah :)
<sebsebseb> can talk to devs
<jenkins> I will go and have a chat with them some time
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well good luck I guess,  a lot of people who use other distros, don't like Ubuntu much at all
<sebsebseb> since how things are with it at the moment
<sebsebseb> jenkins: downstream Gnome patching,  copyright assignment, and yeah
<jenkins> yea well it could prove fun but we will have to see our logo and icons are no longer ubuntu releate
<jenkins> d
<sebsebseb> jenkins: however
<sebsebseb> jenkins: yeah apps should be cross distro really
<jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/quickshot has out logo . yep that was one of our aims this releas
<jenkins> *our
<sebsebseb> jenkins: oh an own logo, instead of Ubuntu logo you mean?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well yeah thats good, make apps for well loads of distros, not a particular distro :)
<jenkins> yea the other one was for one release only
<sebsebseb> jenkins: with  these Ubuntu only Gnome changes though
<sebsebseb> that are being done
<sebsebseb> even getting people going on the Gnome IRC asking about them, which isn't good
<jenkins> really what do they ask about them?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: oh I don't go there, but another guy who does, has been copying in some stuff from there recently
<jenkins> people getting problems with it?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: people are obviously confussed that the sound menu,  me menu,  unity, and what not
<sebsebseb> none of that is Gnome
<sebsebseb> jenkins: in fact heres a great idea,  the manual  when mentioning Gnome,  should ideally mention, how a lot of changes  to Ubuntu,  aren't part of upstream Gnome
<jenkins> we would probably confuse people telling them abou all the different projects
<sebsebseb> jenkins: this is only the start,  Ubuntu  with Gnome 2 has already become quite differnet to upstream Gnome
<sebsebseb> jenkins:  maybe, but people are obviously  don't know, if going to Gnome network, asking about Ubuntu changes
<jenkins> personally I think they are good improvements, but i do think there should be more colaberation
<sebsebseb> jenkins: personally I think most of it sucks,  but thats since I don't want it personalley
<sebsebseb> and how also  you know shut down in system menu
<sebsebseb> and auto shutdown after a minute, is removed
<sebsebseb> when  that stuff is enabled, lame really want to shut down or restart messages insead, and that kind of thing.  and shut down on the right and all that. uh
<sebsebseb> Gnome 3 will also be shutting down on the right though, but for Gnome 2 really its meant to be like before,  with shut down and log out in sysem menu, and the automatic  shut down feature after a minute.
<jenkins> well i would never wait 60 seconds i just hit ok. I saw no point of 60 secons
<jenkins> *seconds
<sebsebseb> jenkins:  anyway stuff like that,  that does get at me, I think about it,  and how  with a message instead asking if want to shut down or re start, and the shut down feature on the right instead of system menu,  is probably more user friendly really, because
<sebsebseb> well how often do people go the system menu in Ubuntu these days anyway?   and the name and all that on the right, looks user friendly?  and  yeah the being asked if want to shut down or re start, is user friendly as well
<sebsebseb> plus with the me menu, and sound menu, and whatever, on the top there, people will be used to going to the top right to do stuff
<jenkins> I do agree the system menu is rarely used
<sebsebseb> jenkins: espesailly now with Software Centre, most users won't be going to Synaptic
<sebsebseb> jenkins: also before I would put the Gnome icons on, the old Gnome icons,  make the icons show on the system menu,  with shut down and log out there
<sebsebseb> I didn't like most of the Ubuntu icons, but Gnome ones yeah,  however now
<jenkins> I like synaptic but it is complex for adding programs if you are new to ubuntu
<sebsebseb> 10.10 will also get these newer Gnome icons for that, which I don't like, except for log out which improed,  shut down has gone horrible.  and yeah by default icons aren't showing in system menu anyway, so most users woudn't even see, what I was just on about
<sebsebseb> jenkins: PC Linux OS also has Synaptic by the way, and with APT RPM, so a bit differnet to apt  in Ubuntu and Debian
<sebsebseb> Synaptic is a program I miss when using Mandriva, and it seems I can't just install it into this distro either
<sebsebseb> I got to used to using it in Ubuntu for years, so yeah
<jenkins> I have not tried other distros much
<sebsebseb> jenkins: people don't like how Ubuntu are doing their own indicators now as well
<sebsebseb> and stuff like that
<jenkins> I think that they tried to work with gnome but they said they wanted to create them their own way. or thatw what i recall
<sebsebseb> jenkins: and certain people are worried that Ubuntu will  end up doing to many changes to Gnome, and so basically fork it, well they kind of  have already, and that kind of thing
<sebsebseb> jenkins: and some people wonder if Ubuntu will use Gnome Shell, or will instead find some excuse to use Unity in desktop edition as well, for example sound menu and such not being able to be ported over easilly
<jenkins> I guess we will have to wait and see
<sebsebseb> jenkins: Ubuntu is the most liked distro  on the desktop, but also the most hated/disliked
<jenkins> lol
<sebsebseb> jenkins: pretty much everyone who uses another distro, doesn't like Ubuntu much  these days, it seems
<sebsebseb> jenkins: not including distros based on Ubuntu of course
<sebsebseb> jenkins: and yeah exactly we have to see
<jenkins> of course. Each to their own.
<sebsebseb> jenkins: well 2011 should be an interesting year for Desktop Linux :)
<jenkins> don't we say that every year?
<sebsebseb> jenkins: I guess so, but I mean since Gnome 3
<jenkins> yea i got what you ment :)
<sebsebseb> jenkins: and then yeah the whole Mono thing, a lot of people are worried about and all that as well
<jenkins> I have no opinion on mono for some reason. I know why people don't like it
<sebsebseb> jenkins: its pretty awesome all this really though,  the choice of distros, and programs in them, and all these communites as well as part of that, and all that
<jenkins> the choice is great
<sebsebseb> however people don't always agree with each other, so sometimes issues as a result
<sebsebseb> jenkins: I am not that keen on those  Ubuntu Gnome patches as I was saying, but uhmm
<sebsebseb> I mean what features does  the average end user see when it comes to Gnome?
<sebsebseb> I mean changes in the recent releasese
<sebsebseb> jenkins: what noticeable end user is there?  well nothing really?  except for the background changer effect that got introduced in 9.04 when it comes to Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> know what I mean?
<sebsebseb> noticleabe end user features,  not much from Gnome, but  Ubuntu has done some.   and a lot of new users from Windows and Mac OS X, will expect a lot of new features
<jenkins> ubuntu has got faster
<jenkins> I don't know loads about raw gnome
<sebsebseb> yes Ubuntu will annoy some of us, because of the direction it is currently going in, but hey plenty of other distros we can use instead :)
<jenkins> they are working hard on gnome 3
<sebsebseb> I have mixed views when it comes to Ubuntu since 9.04,  negative and postive,  but even so
<sebsebseb> i'll help newbies with it here and there, and follow whats going on, and try development versions
<jenkins> cool, i should go to bed as I will fall asleep at work if i do not
<sebsebseb> jenkins: oh I was just going to finnish this off with a nice conclusion
<nisshh> i dislike where ubuntu is going as well
<jenkins> k carry on
<sebsebseb> jenkins: which also brings things back a little bit more on topic for this channel
<jenkins> go on
<sebsebseb> jenkins: However better people use Ubuntu than Windows or Mac OS X really, so Ubuntu Manual project is a good project to help with this
<jenkins> yey ubuntu is good \o/
<sebsebseb> jenkins: when it works
<sebsebseb> jenkins: on sometimes computer, without hardware issues sure, and just works
<sebsebseb> if not a lot will think Linux sucks, and a lot won't try other distros instead, where there hardware may work better
<jenkins> i have not had any harware issues yet
<sebsebseb> they might try a later version of Ubuntu, but then if the same problem, oh yes, they really are going to think Linux sucks
<jenkins> yea I know what you mean
<jenkins> night then
<sebsebseb> nisshh: your a community member though, and you say you dislike where Ubuntu is heading, well there are other ones who think this as well, I talked to one  not that long ago on here
<jenkins> good to cathc up sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> jenkins: uh yeah I guess
<sebsebseb> nisshh: anyway whys that?   I just been through it here, why it is for me :)
<sebsebseb> nisshh: I think its kind of interesting that quite a few of the community memebers are  starting to dislike Ubuntu as well
<nisshh> sebsebseb: why? because im not liking the fact that Ubuntu is getting closer and closer to Windows
<nisshh> sure it still has all the advantages
<nisshh> but it should be different
<nisshh> we should not be making Ubuntu more like windows
<nisshh> we should be making it different
<nisshh> if we make it the same, it will cripple it
<nisshh> sebsebseb: thats my short answer, if you want a more in depth discussion, PM me :)
<sebsebseb> nisshh: yep lets pm, and what I think and such, I guess is in the logs now
<nisshh> sebsebseb: cool
<sebsebseb> nisshh: well its being more more like Mac OS X really, but lets pm, if you don't want to chat about this in here of course
<nisshh> sebsebseb: well, it just keeps the chatter out of an unrelated channel thats all
<sebsebseb> nisshh: yep plus doesn't  end up in public logs,  which as a community memember you might not quite want, on this subject :D
<nisshh> :)
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-15
<bilalakhtar> Any newson the UM?
<bilalakhtar> *news on
<bilalakhtar> or the project is getting stale without ben?
<thorwil> bilalakhtar: well, https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual  last commit 25 hours ago
<bilalakhtar> thorwil: :D
<daker> godbyk, ping
<dutchie> the !manual factoid just got used in #ubuntu+1 \o/
<nisshh> wooo!
<jenkins> lol
<nisshh> what? i was excited :)
<jenkins> nothing worng just made me laugh for some reason :)
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> jenkins: oh btw, when is the tex ppa going back up? its a tad quicker and easier than the script
<nisshh> also downloads a lot less
<jenkins> I left it downloading latex last night but the wifi dropped it may be a week i guess. The svn repo is very slow its 8gb on 30 kilobytes a second
<jenkins> it took about 40 hours no stop but i can't leave my laptop going all day at home
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> jenkins: why was the ppa taken down in the first place?
<jenkins> I will let you know when it is up
<nisshh> cool
<jenkins> there was a bug in it and about 400 people could upload to the ppa
<nisshh> oh lol
<jenkins> The bug only effected me and anyone who wanted final versions of manual. Japanese characters in the index. But i needed to change its owner and with a new latex release there was nothing to update
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> it will be owned by the admin team this time
<nisshh> right
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-16
<daker> hello
<daker> the meetin will be in Sunday at 20:00 UTC/GMT
<nisshh> daker: has the meeting changed from saturday to sunday has it?
<daker> nisshh, http://www.doodle.com/ki55eyzhr4wpwzv4
 * godbyk updates his calendar.
<daker> i sent an email about that on Tuesday
<nisshh> daker: cheers
<nisshh> i think i got it
<daker> cool
<nisshh> i should be able to make it
<daker> i'll send an email to announce that
<nisshh> daker: probably a good idea :)
<nisshh> daker: my gmail is a mess right now since i havent set it up to put mail in different folders and such, so i get confused about what mail goes where sometimes :)
<daker> nisshh, http://i.imgur.com/wc8kE.png
<nisshh> daker: they your folders?
<daker> yes
<daker> filters
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> im going to do that right now
<nisshh> as soon as i find out how to do it...
<daker> nisshh, want me to show you ?
<nisshh> daker: if your not busy, that would be great
<nisshh> otherwise i could figure it out
<daker> so go to any ump email
<nisshh> yea
<daker> click on the arrow beside "Reply"
<nisshh> yep
<daker> it should display a menu
<nisshh> yea
<daker> then click on "Filter message like this"
<nisshh> yep
<nisshh> thats easy
<nisshh> daker: easiest way is to filter by mailing list address?
<daker> yep
<nisshh> so by "has the words:"
<nisshh> ok
<daker> yes
<daker> type the @ of the ML
<nisshh> yea
<daker> click "Next step"
<nisshh> yea
<daker> check "Skip the Inbox (Archive it)"
<nisshh> yep
<daker> check "Apply the label: "
<nisshh> and then create a new one
<daker> ya
<nisshh> daker: thanks :)
<daker> before you apply the changes , check " Also apply filter to XXX conversations below"
<daker> :D
<nisshh> ah yes
<flan> Belated broadcast-ping.
<flan> jenkins, no we can't make that change on the server.
<flan> Just add languages at the project level, rather than the version level, to make them universal.
<flan> All versions inherit and extend the project's languages.
<jenkins> ok. I will make sure that I add the ones that are needed
<jenkins> the new background is now installed on maverick
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-17
<webrsk> I couldn't find a option to create user in Quickshot..
<webrsk> any IRC channel specifically for QuickShot ?
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: ping
<ChrisWoollard> Sorry about the commas
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: no worries.
<ChrisWoollard> I will fix it in a bit
<Omega> Hey guys.
<daker> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> We have really weird rules about punctuation and quotation marks in the U.S.
<godbyk> (They're not at all consistent.)
<ChrisWoollard> I didn't realise that commas gon in speech marks in american english. I thought that was an error.
<godbyk> daker: pong
<daker> i need you to setup a staging server
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Usually the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks, but there are cases where it doesn't.
<godbyk> daker: Sure. What do you need me to do?
<Omega> godbyk: | .     |?
<daker> Omega, a way of poking people
<daker> godbyk, staging.u-m.o which can run a django project
<Omega> daker: I am aware.
<Omega> That was my way of poking fun.
<godbyk> daker: Okay. I'll see if I can get that set up for ya.
<daker> godbyk, thanks
<godbyk> daker: what will you need for databases?
<daker> actually i am not sure if we are going to use sqlite or mysql
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I have modified the punctuation from uk to us english. Sorry about that.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: thanks. np.
<godbyk> it happens all the time. :)
<ChrisWoollard> I bet it does
<godbyk> daker: Do you have code in the repository someplace that staging.u-m.o should point to?
<daker> lp:ubuntu-manua-website
<daker> oops
<daker> lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<daker> exactly lp:ubuntu-manual-website/umpwebsite
<daker> there is a README file there
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> daker: is the name of the django module 'umpwebsite'?
<daker> yep
<c7p1> hello, is the quickshot done ?
<nisshh> jenkins: ^^^
<jenkins> hey c7p1 it is but no one has told us what screenshots are needed it is on the agenda to be done in the next meeting
<c7p1> im not asking for that
<c7p1> Do you need any testers or something like that ?
<jenkins> yea feel free to test it https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa info and use http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/test as the projecy url
<jenkins> that would be great c7p1
<c7p1> ok ;)
<daker> jenkins, bug 641424
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 641424 in quickshot "Quickshot allow the users to create the"quichshottest" with one character in the password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641424
<godbyk> daker: where are is the index.html page?  where should the web server look for the html pages?
<daker> godbyk, there is not index.html
<jenkins> thanks daker I will see if that can be fixed asap
<daker> godbyk, what you are using? modwsgi ?
<daker> jenkins, https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/641424/+attachment/1598738/+files/Capture-User%20account%20-%20Quickshot.png
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 641424 in quickshot "Quickshot allow the users to create the"quichshottest" with one character in the password" [Undecided,New]
<daker> the logo is cropped and the text too
<c7p1> jenkins: when the quickshot reach the v.1 will it be available for translation
<jenkins> thaks i will look at that as well
<daker> jenkins, oki
<jenkins> yep c7p1,
<jenkins> catch everyone later got to go o/
<godbyk> daker: nope. passenger_wsgi.py  I don't have modwsgi available to me.
<godbyk> daker: I need to know what the DocumentRoot should be.  (It's usually the public/ directory for Rails apps, for instance.)
<godbyk> daker: Also, what's csstidy used for?
<godbyk> More specifically, does it need to exist on the server?
<daker> godbyk, yep
<daker> godbyk, let me see for the DocumentRoot
<godbyk> daker: which version of csstidy: the php version or the binary executable version?
<daker> godbyk, sudo apt-get install csstidy
<godbyk> I can't do that.
<godbyk> Remember, it's a shared servetr
<daker> euh :s
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> I can compile a copy of it.
<godbyk> I just didn't know which of these to download: http://csstidy.sourceforge.net/download.php
<daker> godbyk, the c++
<godbyk> 'kay
<thorwil> hi! c++?
<daker> thorwil, we are talking about CssTidy
<daker> godbyk, i think the DocumentRoot is the path to the ump website branch
<daker> godbyk, everything is oki ?
<daker> godbyk, ?
<godbyk> daker: working on compiling csstidy.
<godbyk> it had a bug I had to fix.
<daker> we can remove it if that causing problems
<godbyk> it should be okay now.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> hey, daker. It appears to not be working for some unknown reason.
<godbyk> I'm trying to track down the problem.
<godbyk> ah, I have an idea why.
<godbyk> the server is currently pointed at public/ instead of umpwebsite
<godbyk> lemme move things and see if that helps
<daker> oki
<godbyk> that didn't seem to help
<daker> dutchie, ping
<dutchie> yarp?
<daker> any experience with passenger_wsgi.py ?
<dutchie> no, none whatsoever
<daker> godbyk, in the normal case /public should contains what ?
<godbyk> Here are the instructions I'm working from: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Django
<godbyk> I just found this troubleshooting section: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Passenger_WSGI#500_Errors_with_Passenger_WSGI_Workaround
<godbyk> I'm reading it now.
<dutchie> is this another thing that would be easier to serve on my vps?
<godbyk> dutchie: I think this is daker's new UMP site.
<daker> dutchie, the umpwebsite
<daker> a django project
<dutchie> the offer's there
<godbyk> I'll play around with it a bit more later when my brain's working.
<godbyk> I've setup django apps on there before, so I know it works.
<daker> the /public contains what ?
<godbyk> let me wipe out all of it and have it set up the defaults again. then I'll tell you
<godbyk> the default files in there are just favicon.gif, favicon.ico, quickstart.html (just telling you that you haven't set things up yet), and the media dir that holds the static css, img, and js files.
<daker> static files are in /static
 * daker is confused
<godbyk> *now* we're getting somewhere.
<godbyk> had to kill the original python process to get it to reload some stuff.
<godbyk> now I have more debugging info.
<daker> read the README file
<godbyk> your readme? I did.
<daker> yep
<daker> have installed django-compress ?
<daker> you*
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> I'm looking to see if it's in the proper path
<daker> oki
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> it's in the 2.4 site packages dir
<godbyk> but I'm using python 2.6
<godbyk> one moment.
<godbyk> lemme tell the stupid installer what's what.
<daker> 2.6 or 2.5
<daker> ?
<godbyk> 2.6.5
<daker> brb
<godbyk> still some issues.
<godbyk> but I'm getting closer.
<godbyk> I'll come back to this later. I have to get a couple other things done first.
<daker> oki
<ChrisWoollard> evening all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-18
<dutchie> ok, whoever just reviewed that ML message is disturbingly fast
<nisshh> dutchie: i just happened to be reading my email at the time :)
<dutchie> nisshh: :P
<nisshh> but i like being "disturbingly fast", suits me huh? :)
<dutchie> heh
<nisshh> my nick could be, nisshh-da-speedy :)
<Muscovy> Not so speedy for IRC shouts.
<nisshh> Muscovy: why is that?
<Muscovy> Typing nisshh-da-speedy to get your attention.
<nisshh> lol
<dutchie> the very purpose tab-completion was invented
<nisshh> exactly
#ubuntu-manual 2010-09-19
<thorwil> godbyk: i won't be at the meeting (except maybe first 10 minutes or so)
<thorwil> godbyk: all i can say is that i have a few concepts for a changed title page and that i can finish one soon. that's all i will contribute, anyway
<jenkins> yey i did not miss the meeting \0/ I thought it was yesterday
<dutchie> ooh, is it here or #ubuntu-meeting?
<ChrisWoollard> it was moved to today
<thorwil> n #ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> thorwil: 'kay. I'll let everyone know.
<godbyk> (Where 'everyone' is whoever happens to show up.)
<nisshh> im here as well :)
<ChrisWoollard> this meeting is in about 1 hour 10 mins, right?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think so, yeah.
<jenkins> please ping me when it starts I already forgot about it :(
<nisshh> anyone know if humphreybc will be at the meeting?
<dutchie> well, he *should* be
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> no idea
<nisshh> have to wait and see i guess, he didnt say he wasnt coming, so i dunno :)
 * dutchie just aimed a tweet in his general direction
<godbyk> jenkins: The meeting is starting! The meeting is starting!
<jenkins> thanks godbyk
<dutchie> o/
<xuacu> o/
<ChrisWoollard> \oo
<nisshh> :)
<godbyk> So who's in charge here, anyway?
<nisshh> no idea
 * ChrisWoollard steps backwards
<nisshh> godbyk: guess we just need someone to chair the meeting>
 * Muscovy runs backwards.
<jenkins> I will chair it
<godbyk> Yay!
<Muscovy> :D
 * ChrisWoollard claps
<jenkins> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is jenkins.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nisshh> sure
<jenkins> [topic] Maverick writing freeze?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick writing freeze?
<dutchie> how much actual maverick writing has happened?
<jenkins> agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
<ChrisWoollard> wasn't that supposed to be the 10th?
<Muscovy> I thought so.
<jenkins> has this freeze happend?
<godbyk> Nope.
<godbyk> Hasn't happened yet.
<jenkins> It was ment to be the 10th, does anyone know if everything is finished?
<godbyk> It seems like there are a lot of UI freeze exceptions. I'm not sure which ones affect us, though.
<nisshh> godbyk: a lot of them
<godbyk> I have no idea if everything's finished, either.
<jenkins> the installer and the background
 * godbyk hasn't been paying much attention. :-/
<ChrisWoollard> there are still outstanding bugs
<jenkins> release is three weeks today
<godbyk> We should probably compile a list of things that still need to be done.
<godbyk> Along with fixing the bugs, what stuff needs to be written, removed, updated, etc.?
<jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo
<jenkins> lets make the list here
<ChrisWoollard> i know humphreybc log a bug for each thing to be done
<nisshh> yes
<ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bugs
<godbyk> Are all of the appropriate bugs filed against the maverick milestones?
<ChrisWoollard> I know that the multitouch stuff still needs to be done
<jenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-alpha has alot of bugs at the bottom
<ChrisWoollard> i think so. But haven't checked
<dutchie> i make it 8 bugs to fix there
<dutchie> 2 are in progress
<jenkins> and this ome https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc and a bug here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/ubuntu-manual-maverick-final
<Muscovy> Whoops, I left my complete bug on "Confirmed".
<ChrisWoollard> can you change it
<jenkins> can we make a bug number/link list in the pad
<Muscovy> Changed.
<jenkins> one link per bug
<ChrisWoollard> this pad? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/DAdFvmIvSx
<jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/mavericktodo was the one i ment but I don't mind
<godbyk> If the bugs are in launchpad, and we file them against the ubuntu-manual-maverick-rc milestone, then they'll all be in one place.
<jenkins> yea that makes sense
<godbyk> We should also ensure that bugs are filed for UIFe's that affect us, too.
<dutchie> yup
<ChrisWoollard> in the pad can you put a desccription of what the bug is?
<Muscovy> What are UIFe's?
<godbyk> So for all bugs that are currently filed against -alpha that haven't been fixed, move them to -rc.
<jenkins> I am moving them now
<godbyk> Muscovy: UI freeze exceptions.
<Muscovy> Ah.
<godbyk> Muscovy: Changes that are made to the UI or things that affect the documentation after the UI freeze date has passed.
<godbyk> The UI freeze date was 10 Sept.
<jenkins> that is never stuck to
<godbyk> But in typical fashion, the freeze is thawing a bit. :-)
<ChrisWoollard> and Ben made such a nice graphic timeline too ;)
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: heh. yeah. he knows better, though. :-)
<jenkins> right everything is now targeted to the rc version
<godbyk> Cool. Thanks, jenkins.
<godbyk> Do we need to migrate any of the blueprints?
<jenkins> 10 bugs that are comfirmed/in progress / incomplete . not sure on blue prints Iw ill have a look
<jenkins> I think we chould move them all over any objections?
<ChrisWoollard> nope
<godbyk> works for me.
 * jenkins does it.
<jenkins> can we get the bugs fixed by wednesday?
<godbyk> Are they done with the installer now?
<dutchie> i'm sitting around doing nothing atm
<jenkins> I think so
<dutchie> should probably do some ump stuff, so i can pitch in with the bugs
<godbyk> Sweet. jenkins, assign all bugs to dutchie!  ;-)
<jenkins> hehe
<dutchie> well, not all of them
<ChrisWoollard> rofl
<godbyk> We also need to start reading through the manual, comparing all the step-by-step instructions with a clean install of Maverick to ensure no one's pulled any fast ones on us.
<godbyk> Additionally, we need to review all the screenshots.
<dutchie> are we going to start passing it on to dedicated proofreaders?
<godbyk> Remove any that are unnecessary and add ones that are necessary.
<jenkins> screenshots is the next item
<godbyk> That way we can get quickshot configured and ready to go.
<godbyk> oh, sorry.
 * godbyk hasn't looked at the agenda.
<godbyk> brb
<nisshh> jenkins: oh, that reminds me, i need to talk to you after the meeting about quickshot :)
<dutchie> won't take long :)
<jenkins> right all the blueprints are moved over any one got anything to add?
<jenkins> can we achive all bugs fixed by wednesday?
<ChrisWoollard> re multitouch
<dutchie> i reckon so
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: what about it
<ChrisWoollard> does anybody know how it works, and how much we need to cover?
<ChrisWoollard> in the manual?
<dutchie> do we need to cover any of it?
<ChrisWoollard> there is a bug
<nisshh> i dont think so
<dutchie> nobody's got any multitouch stuff to play with
<jenkins> I think mention it, but unless anyone knows how it works then we can't go into much detail
<ChrisWoollard> that is my problem
<ChrisWoollard> fair enough
<jenkins> what big nuber is it?
<jenkins> )bug
<ChrisWoollard> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/630558
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 630558 in ubuntu-manual "Multi-touch functionality in Maverick" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jenkins> Yep I think mention it as a margin note and put a link to the wikipage
<jenkins> make sense?
<ChrisWoollard> that will work
<jenkins> good any one else before we move on?>
<jenkins> [TOPIC] Screenhots
<MootBot> New Topic:  Screenhots
<jenkins> so that quickshot can be set up what are we doing about screenshots this release?
<jenkins> are there any we wish to remove or add?
<c7p> editors should anwser right ?
<ChrisWoollard> the ubuntu one chapter looks a bit thin on screenshots
<jenkins> anyone can answer :)
<nisshh> jenkins: obviously we need to go through and see which ones are now poinless
<nisshh> pointless*
<nisshh> because we do want to reduce the file size a lot dont we?
<jenkins> i am not sure if we are trying to reduce it that much
<jenkins> we are reomving the command line section right?
<godbyk> back
<nisshh> jenkins: merging that with security
<nisshh> and its already been done
<jenkins> I think ubuntu one could be added ChrisWoollard
<nisshh> i got bugmail about it being fixed
<jenkins> so do we still need a terminal picture
<godbyk> From what I understand, the installation steps will be different, so we'll probably scratch those screenshots and grab completely different ones, depending on the steps required to install Ubuntu.
<jenkins> agreed
<godbyk> Let me see how the screenshots affect the pdf size.
<godbyk> one moment.
<nisshh> jenkins: i think we do, just so people know that its the terminal, not something else
<ChrisWoollard> i don't mind sorting the ubuntu one screenshots. I just need to work out how to install quickshot.
<jenkins> fair enough makes sense. Otherwise I think we got a good selection of screenshots last time.
<godbyk> wow
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> So if I take out all the screenshots, the PDf is 498 Kb in size.
<ChrisWoollard> lol
<nisshh> godbyk: and its like 4megs with isnt it?
<dutchie> how big is it with screenshots?
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release is the ppa
<jenkins> You need permission to access the server to add the screenshots to quickshot
<ChrisWoollard> thx
<godbyk> looks like about 4.5 MB with screenshots.
<nisshh> far out
<godbyk> so 4 MB of screenshots.
<jenkins> I can sort server permissons.
<ChrisWoollard> cool
<jenkins> godbyk has flan told you how to add quickshot to your server?
<nisshh> godbyk: thats exactly why we need fewer screenshots
<godbyk> A while back I ran all the PNGs through a compression program that reduced their size by a bit and recompiled the PDF. It didn't seem to affect the PDF size.
<jenkins> but a picture speaks a thousand words
<godbyk> But I'll try it again soon and see if I screwed something up last time.
<c7p> why do you want to reduce the size of pdf ?
<godbyk> jenkins: nope. haven't heard from him in a while.
<dutchie> because it's too big
<dutchie> :)
<nisshh> jenkins: yes, true, but i have noticed some of them seem rather pointless
<c7p> 4 mb big ?
<dutchie> c7p: that's like asking "why do you want to make your program run faster?"
<godbyk> some of the screenshots are fairly pointless.
<jenkins> we need to change f-spot screenshots with shotwell
<nisshh> c7p: its too big to be accepted onto the CD image
<jenkins> which ones are point less
<godbyk> jenkins: I'll have to flip through again and let you know.
<nisshh> yea
<jenkins> I thought the quick start guide would be aiming for the cd
<nisshh> i cant remember
<c7p> i have many ebooks like ours type of manual they are almost 4 mb and even more
<godbyk> OT: I keep meaning to have folks help out and glossary entries, index entries, and improving the screenshot captions, but never get around to writing the emails.
<c7p> if there is a plan to add it on the live cd ok that counts
<jenkins> I agree with c7p
<jenkins> 4.5mb is fine
<jenkins> ok as far as screenshots I will start a mailing list thread
<godbyk> humphreybc was chatting with some folks the other day about getting the pdf on the cd.
<dutchie> there's hardly an argument against making it smaller
<godbyk> I don't know what he found out in the end, though.
<jenkins> k so moving on
<jenkins> [AOB]
<nisshh> godbyk: he told me that in order to get it accepted, it had to be much smaller
<jenkins> [TOPIC} AOB
<MootBot> New Topic: [TOPIC} AOB
<godbyk> nisshh: do we have a target size?
 * jenkins gets there
<nisshh> godbyk: dont think so, but ben said under 2megs was what he wanted to try to get
<godbyk> Man, my head's just not in the game this release cycle. I have no idea what other stuff there is to do. :)
<godbyk> I just wait for people to give me small, bite-size tasks to do occasionally.
<nisshh> hehe
<jenkins> can we not make a cut down version for the cd?
<jenkins> the first half or something
<nisshh> jenkins: wouldnt be fair to have half the manual on CD and the rest off, be pointless
<jenkins> I ment miss out the advanced section
<godbyk> jenkins: that's something ben and I discussed.
<godbyk> and I think it's a possibility, if there's a good cut-off point.
<nisshh> jenkins: thats like saying, "heres the first part, the other part will cost you $14.95"
<nisshh> except it wont cost them anything
<nisshh> it just makes more work on their part
<jenkins> hmm but I don't think you can scrap enough screenshots for it to make sense and still fit
<jenkins> surley we are not aiming to get on the cd this release?
<nisshh> jenkins: well, once we all have a look at the current screenshots, i think there are 1 or 2 we could easily scrap
<nisshh> jenkins: wont happen anyway, its far too late to ask
<godbyk> I don't know that there's a serious attempt to get on the CD this release.
<godbyk> At least, there's no one doing the legwork to make it happen.
<nisshh> there isnt
<jenkins> we really need a beginner to decide which ones are no use. To me I don;t need any of the screenshots
<c7p> pictures are crucial to the better understandinf of the manual's content guys, ubuntu manual is for starters and a starter wants to see in pictures what do you mean in the text (most of times)
<nisshh> but theres no reason we cant start optimizing it
<jenkins> I agree with nisshh and c7p
<jenkins> we need to look at ways to optimize it in the long run
<jenkins> keeping as many screenshots
<nisshh> yes
<nisshh> i agree they are still crucial
<nisshh> just a bugger when it comes to file size
<jenkins> right so thats agreed.
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> Anyone else with anyother items/topics
<c7p> almost everyone has internet connection today, the manual dont's have to be on the cd.It may be downloaded during the installation with all the translation packages
<godbyk> I think we should strive to regular meetings every other week.
<jenkins> I also agree godbyk
<godbyk> That way we continue the momentum, reduce the number of surprise/last-minute meetings, etc.
<c7p> jenkins: when the writing of the manual stops ?
<jenkins> [ACTION] jenkins to set date for two weeks tine
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jenkins to set date for two weeks tine
<jenkins> I guess we should aim for wednesday
<jenkins> to freeze writing
<godbyk> I think Saturday at 20:00 UTC was found to work best for everyone in general, though that may have changed since we have new people (and some of the original folks have left).
<godbyk> jenkins: by writing freeze, does that include editing?
<ChrisWoollard> I would have said no stopping edditing.
<ChrisWoollard> or even editing
<godbyk> I think the editing has to continue past that date.
<jenkins> well it depends on how much time we have
<ChrisWoollard> especially as i remember the last release
<godbyk> are any translators chomping at the bit to start translating maverick?
<jenkins> people who have time is what i ment
<jenkins> what would be a final edit date that makes sense godbyk?
<godbyk> jenkins: I think we basically edited up until the rc, but I could be mis-remembering.
<nisshh> urh, godbyk i just compiled the manual, the went to go 'make show' and its now recompiling it...
<godbyk> (actually for lucid-e1, I did editing even after that in a separate branch. and that branch is what generated the final pdf/book.)
<godbyk> nisshh: did you compile with just 'make' (no args)?
<nisshh> godbyk: yes
<godbyk> weird.
<nisshh> i reckon someone edited the makefile
<jenkins> ok erm lets stop writing by wednesday and editing by rc
<godbyk> nisshh: I probably borked the makefile at some point along the way.
<nisshh> godbyk: something like that yes
<jenkins> any objections
<godbyk> jenkins: sounds good to me.
<c7p> have you checked the new installer ? i read it changed a lot
<godbyk> if we're inviting others to help us edit again (like we did with omg!ubuntu! readers last time), we should do it a week or more prior to the rc so we have time to incorporate those edits.
<jenkins> I think we should do it on wednesday compile a version a post it on omg ubuntu
<ChrisWoollard> and make sure they do a compile before they commit
<godbyk> jenkins: sounds like a plan.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok, that was strange, once it recompiled it, then it showed the pdf...
<jenkins> c7p: yep we are aware thanks
<ChrisWoollard> to make sure it works
<nisshh> very munted
<godbyk> I'll put on my flame-retardant suit and bite my tongue on Wednesday then. :)
<c7p> jenkins: ok nice to hear that
<jenkins> dutchie: does the bug form work?
<godbyk> nisshh: yeah, that means the makefile thought some underlying file changed between your first 'make' and your second 'make show'. so it recompiled to get the latest pdf before showing it.
<godbyk> 'make show' will compile the pdf automatically if it's out of date before showing it.
<dutchie> jenkins: it *works*
<dutchie> it's not very pretty
<dutchie> and it's very slow
<godbyk> dutchie: think we can get it prettied up by wednesday?
<jenkins> can we get it to go any faster?
<godbyk> daker may be able to help if he can spare some time.
<godbyk> (I know he's busy on our other sites, too.)
<dutchie> godbyk: pretty, yes, fast, maybe
<jenkins> what is causing the slowness?
<godbyk> if it's too slow to be usable, we could fall back on the google spreadsheet form again. that seemed to work moderately well last time.
<dutchie> jenkins: launchpad
<jenkins> may be the docs form might be easier if we want to make it quick for people
<nisshh> godbyk: oh, well that is silly :)
<jenkins> I guess we should decide the screenshots by wednesday as well
<jenkins> ok any one else before i end the meeting
<jenkins> anyone?
<jenkins> #endmeeting
<ChrisWoollard> no
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:52.
<jenkins> good thanks everyone so lets get fixing bugs
<c7p> godbyk there is a member of the greek community that wants to start latex, do you have any ebook or a page in mind ?
<c7p> nice meeting btw
<godbyk> c7p: what does he/she want to do with latex?
<jenkins> I will send a mailing list message with the minutes and about the screenshots
<godbyk> jenkins: thanks for running the meeting!
<jenkins> no problem about the only thing i have time to do atm :(
<c7p> godbyk to tell you the truth i dont know specifically
<xuacu> thank you all, guys, nice meeting
<xuacu> bye!
<c7p> bye xuacu
<godbyk> c7p: is he/she wanting to just learn latex in general? or help with the manual or what?
<jenkins> bye xuacu
<c7p> just to learn
<godbyk> c7p: You might check out http://www.eutypon.gr/ to see if they have handy resources in Greek.
<godbyk> If she/he is open to English resources, there's plenty out there.
<godbyk> if they want a book, I'd recommend The LaTeX Companion.  It'll cover more than they ever want to know. :)
<c7p> ok thank you very much :)
<godbyk> c7p: If you find out what they'd like to do to start with, I can give more specific recommendations.
<c7p> godbyk you 're the best :P
<godbyk> :_
<godbyk> jenkins: whatever you do, don't let that ChrisWoollard guy join quickshotdevs!  ;-)
<jenkins> lol
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: do you want server acces?
<ChrisWoollard> what
<ChrisWoollard> oi
<nisshh> lol
<ChrisWoollard> checky
<ChrisWoollard> cheeky even
<ChrisWoollard> yes please
 * jenkins works out how
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: whats your launchpad openid?
<ChrisWoollard>  https://launchpad.net/~cwoollard
<jenkins> go to http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/ it works but needs making pretty and login with the launchpad open id url
<jenkins> choose the "getting started..." and then click manage settings int he top right
<ChrisWoollard> hmmm, scary looking
<jenkins> it will look pretty in the long run
<ChrisWoollard> So how does this actually work?
<jenkins> do you have skype ChrisWoollard? it may be easier to explain if you don't mind
<jenkins> other wise i can try and type
<ChrisWoollard> i do
<c7p> night all keep up the good job ;)
<jenkins> right night all I have work in the morning
#ubuntu-manual 2011-09-17
<benonsoftware> Hi all
<benonsoftware> Sorry I missed the meeting
<patrickdickey> I'll probably be sleeping when the meeting happens, but I'll check the channel out after I wake up.
<godbyk> Hey, rickfosb
<c7p> hello world !
<godbyk> hey, c7p
<c7p> how are you godbyk ?
<rickfosb> Hello godbyk, c7p
<godbyk> not too bad. and you, c7p?
<c7p> godbyk: fine :)
<c7p> hey rickfosb
<rickfosb> godbyk, liked the pdf site.  I just glanced at it;  is it free use?
<c7p> Î·ÎµÏ ChrisWoollard
<c7p> hey*
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<godbyk> rickfosb: Yeah, it's free for nonprofit use.
<rickfosb> I like it!
<c7p> yeah great tool
<rickfosb> Hello ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> Evening rick
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
<ChrisWoollard> Evening Godbyk
<c7p> who is here for the meeting,  raise your hands !
<ChrisWoollard> o/
<rickfosb> Guys, only 5 signed up on the poll.  (I didn't vote)  HERE
<ChrisWoollard> \o/
<godbyk> I'm here.
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard, I'll need to look that one up  :-)
<ChrisWoollard> two hands up :)
<rickfosb> Hannie sent an apology, if I recall the email strings
<godbyk> Is everyone who said they were available in the poll here?
<rickfosb> Ah yes, I see it now!
<rickfosb> agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/tXtRXeYMKv
<rickfosb> \two of you are
<rickfosb> c7p and ChrisWoollard
<c7p> meetingbot ?
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:07. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<rickfosb> Bryan, Mario, and Ben signed up
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Should the Natty release continue?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Should the Natty release continue?
<ChrisWoollard> Any thoughts?
<c7p> Natty release has many problems
<rickfosb> My 2 cents:  I would rather not stop work. But perhaps we can try some new tools to help move along... like your pdf edit...  Maybe some additional advertisement via Planet Ubuntu
<ChrisWoollard> I think that maybe not. Otherwise we are always playing catchup. It would be great to get the manual out at around release.
<c7p> first, the natty manual will be out around when the oneiric will be released
<c7p> who will be interested on an outdated manual ?
<rickfosb> I'm ok with Halting Natty; assuming we work on the process to get our manual out at 'release'... Is that even possible?
<godbyk> rickfosb: Well, we managed it with our first manual (lucid).
<rickfosb> you probably had a better editor in chief (grin)
<godbyk> rickfosb: And back then we were still inventing our tool chain and starting from scratch.
<godbyk> rickfosb: (I guess I was also unemployed then and had more time to spend on it, too. :-))
<c7p> rickfosb: no we hadn't even an editor
<ChrisWoollard> It could be possible. Natty and Oneric don't look vastly different so therefore it might be possible to tweak it enough
<rickfosb> So, IF we take what we have --> move directly to Oneric... what do we save?
<godbyk> If skipping Natty and going straight to Oneiric would allow us to get back on track and release the Oneiric manual at the same time as the software, that'd be awesome.
<c7p> godbyk: yeah
<godbyk> I think we'd save some of the intermediary steps (various editing milestones, writing freezes, etc.).
<c7p> also we need some new authors, cause ours have gone. New authors would be interested on releasing a manual that will be read
<rickfosb> So, how about doing on ly 1 release a year... same release each time X.10
<rickfosb> or XX.04  which ever
<ChrisWoollard> I think it depends what changes
<rickfosb> good point
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I agree.  I think it'd be nice to have manuals for the LTS releases, at a minimum.
<ChrisWoollard> Unity required quite a big change
<c7p> i don't think the 2 releases is the problem, the problem is that we don't keep authors motivated :/ (maybe)
<godbyk> If we had people working on writing and editing, I think we could manage the six-month releases.  But we'll need to continually recruit new members to replace the ones that have left.
<ChrisWoollard> It would also be nice to have the manual for the one prior to LTS also.
<rickfosb> yea, they (we) all start out strong and then life happens
<godbyk> ...Or find a way for anyone to easily do that drive-by editing/writing.
<c7p> godbyk: +1
<c7p> on this subject Kevin i think we can deploy google docs
<c7p> it's online, it's easy
<rickfosb> I really like the pdf site as a way to get people to help out.  Especially if one of our ubuntu members (hint) could post to the planet every so often
<godbyk> At some point we should probably survey our team members and get an idea of what does prevent them from helping.  Is our tool chain too cumbersome?  Do they just not have time? Are all the tasks too boring?
<c7p> or any relevant service*
<rickfosb> Well, I like the tool chain; but I do find that I'm 'fixing' latex after a revision from some of the authors... like they don't run make...
<ChrisWoollard> That has always been an issue
<rickfosb> so it may be an issue for some =-- tool chain that is
<ChrisWoollard> I have been doing the same
<c7p> i think we need one who will be in charge of this getting new people, motivating them, getting feedback from them etc
<rickfosb> so, if we used google docs; or a pdf annotation tool, and did continuous outreach.... that might help us make the major revisions on time...
<godbyk> Would it be better if there were a two-stage editing process then?  Something more accessible (wiki, Google docs, Etherpad) that the authors and editors could work with.  Then another stage for the LaTeX geeks to handle the nit-picky LaTeX markup and layout?
<rickfosb> Maybe reach some of the folks who are making the code changes to annotate
<rickfosb> godbyk +1
<c7p> +!
<c7p> +1
<rickfosb> c7p is really excited about it  ;)
<c7p> i can handle the Latex markup
<ChrisWoollard> +1 I think
<c7p> xD
<ChrisWoollard> What would happen if once the google doc had been latexed and the author wanted to make changes?
<rickfosb> The trick with two stage is keeping the updates linear... I've had that problem when getting text in the same chapter from multiple sources...
<rickfosb> exactly ChrisWoollard
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think after it was LaTeX'd, the changes should be noted on the PDF and the LaTeX editors would make them.  (We'd also need to track the changes in the original doc for future versions, too, I guess.)
<c7p> btw i want to share something with you
<rickfosb> back to our current toolchain to help with version control...
<godbyk> It seemed like there was also a problem figure out what we needed to update and write about this time, too.  Maybe there should be some initial meetings where we do some research and establish a clear and detailed outline of what's new, what's different, etc. so we know exactly what needs to be written.
<godbyk> Then the assignments to the authors could be more specific.
<rickfosb> godbyk: agree,  since I'm not running a beta... i've no real clue..  guess I'll have to learn how to run two versions
<ChrisWoollard> True
<rickfosb> c7p was going to share? what?
<ChrisWoollard> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing usually has release notes about what has changed
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing usually has release notes about what has changed
<rickfosb> I'll book mark that now (while I'm thinking about it)
<c7p> rickfosb: i'm talking with the guys from the greek community that are involved to a community magazine. We have exactly the same problems as projects. EXACTLY !
<c7p> people are leaving, the process of writing is too technical, project misses its goals etc
<godbyk> c7p: that makes me feel a little better. :-)  have they found any solutions?
<c7p> no we are searching :P
<c7p> what i've concluded is that we have to keep the writing process as easy as possible
<rickfosb> how about this; what is our goal here?  If we are just a printed version of help, then we're duplicating effort.  If the goal is to provide user friendly information, then maybe we've added too much content
<c7p> also we have to motivate contributors constantly, everyone has little free time, but with no motivation, rewards people lose their passion
<rickfosb> trim it down and point to online help when it gets 'too technical'
<rickfosb> (I hear ya! c7p;  I could use a week off too! )
<ChrisWoollard> As far as was aware we are aimed at non techies. So there shouldn't be anything to technical
<godbyk> The original aim of the project was to produce a printed and bound book for new Ubuntu users.
<c7p> rickfosb: the documentation for the too techy stuff exists but the process is still complex
<godbyk> We assume that the readers have some basic computer knowledge (how to use a mouse and keyboard, etc.).
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard, has the document gotten to 'fat'?
<rickfosb> *too
<godbyk> The printed book aspect is important for new users because it's something they can scribble notes in as they learn, something they can set on their desk alongside them as they work through a procedure.
<rickfosb> I like the book aspect; otherwise, why bother just do help.ubuntu...
<ChrisWoollard> I don't think the size has changed much. 154 pages is quite slim really
<godbyk> We actually have fewer pages now, but I think the bulk of that change is because I shrank the screenshots.
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard, if we keep the same structure then (chapters) and target LTS releases, and significant interim releases, is that doable (given a constant flow of help)
<c7p> i think we have to rethink the whole content of the manual, but it's not subject now. we have to look on it of course later
<c7p> on a coming meeting
<rickfosb> ok
<godbyk> Right now we have a couple topics that are somewhat conflated:
<godbyk> (1) Do we cancel the Natty release in favor of starting work on the Oneiric release (so it can be published on time)?
<godbyk> (2) What can we do to improve our workflow and project's chance of success.
<rickfosb> I'm inclined to vote yea on item 1
<godbyk> I'm loathe to take a vote with so few voters, but at this point, I think we're the only active project members. :-/
<rickfosb> #2 (I like providing content for the 'world' to comment on and let us do the latex)
<ChrisWoollard> (1) +1
<rickfosb> godbyk +1  I know
<godbyk> I'm also inclined to vote +1 to canceling the Natty release and moving straight to Oneiric.
<c7p> me too
<godbyk> I guess we can make it official...
<c7p> even if we don't have enough authors i have the time and energy to pull this release
<godbyk> [VOTE] Cancel the Natty release and move on to the Oneiric cycle.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Cancel the Natty release and move on to the Oneiric cycle..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-manual
<ChrisWoollard> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ChrisWoollard. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<c7p> +1
<rickfosb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from c7p. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from rickfosb. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<godbyk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from godbyk. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<godbyk> I think that's all of us, right?
<rickfosb> yes
<godbyk> [AGREED] Cancel the Natty release and move on to the Oneiric cycle.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Cancel the Natty release and move on to the Oneiric cycle.
<godbyk> (I'm not sure if that closed the voting or not. I hope so.)
<rickfosb> what is the release Date for Oneiric
<rickfosb> +1
<rickfosb> yep
<godbyk> October 13.
<ChrisWoollard> 13th October
<godbyk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<godbyk> We've already passed the UI freeze date, so things should be fairly settled.
<rickfosb> So we go through the release notes and try to get the natty text updated?
<godbyk> If you're not already, you might wish to subscribe to the ubuntu-docs mailing list.  They send UI freeze exception requests to that list so you can track the things that are still in flux.
<ChrisWoollard> Godbyk: Can you transfer the natty branch to a new oneric one?
<c7p> i'm from 11.10 now, i can track all the changes that need to be done
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Yeah, I can set up the bzr branch.
<c7p> good
<godbyk> What was remaining on the to do list for the Natty release?
<godbyk> We'll need to transfer those items over.
<ChrisWoollard> Not sure, but I did think that some editting was required
<c7p> i will make a complete todo list maybe tomorrow, by tracking the changes
<godbyk> And we should get a few people to read through the various parts of the manual and ensure that they're up to date with Onieric.
<godbyk> (That, in my mind, involves reading a section and clicking on whatever it says to click on.. ensuring that the text is the same and that the process still works as written.)
<c7p> godbyk: +1, the tool that you shared with us would totally help us
<godbyk> c7p: Once I get the oneiric branch created, I'll upload a new 11.10 PDF and we can start passing the link around.
<rickfosb> Reading the worksheet; the last three chapters showed lots of potential changes; but I never saw revisions to indicate that they'd actually done them.
<rickfosb> c7p +1
<rickfosb> i mean godbyk +1
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard do you post your blog to planet ubuntu?  I've seen your name.. might help once we get the link to the pdf to get the word out?
<ChrisWoollard> I do sometimes. It is my choice if it goes there
<ChrisWoollard> just tell me what you want and i can arrange it
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard thanks!  I think once we get the branch built, and the first pdf built, we might want to blog about what we're up to... get a bigger audience?
<rickfosb> rickfosb is shamelessly using ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> np
<c7p> i think we must have the 11.10 pdf in a good status before sharing it with the planet
<rickfosb> I would agree to that... talk about a firestorm.. :-))
<godbyk> heh.. no doubt!
<c7p> maybe we can share every chapter when it's almost finished
<rickfosb> the vote may not be closed; I have a private message that I already voted
<rickfosb> smile
<rickfosb> c7p; just take the pdf by chapter?
<c7p> :D, nevermind, the decision has been taken. the bot wants to sabotage us
<godbyk> We've been writing and editing the chapters in parallel, not in serial.
<godbyk> So we haven't all been focusing on, say, chapter 2 until it was finished and then moving on to chapter 3.
<c7p> yeah, i'm talking for the sharing the pdfs for proofread and comments before the mani release of the whole book
<rickfosb> I think 1 - 3 are in decent shape;  we'd need to review the release notes. not sure about the screen shots
<rickfosb> Most are done, I thought;
<c7p> i think so
<rickfosb> godbyk, when do you think you could have time to create the new branch?
<godbyk> rickfosb: I can probably get it done later today.
<c7p> cool
<rickfosb> After the meeting, I'll work up an email to ubuntu-manual and let them know what we're up to, along with the raw meeting log, etc.
<godbyk> 'kay
<c7p> are we done ?
<c7p> have we finished*
<rickfosb> Once you get the pdf location arranged,,, is that something that any of us could upload, or would that be you after a bzr revision?
<godbyk> rickfosb: Well, I figured I'd change the version number in the PDF to reflect 11.10 instead of 11.04 before uploading it.
<rickfosb> yes sir.
<godbyk> Otherwise, anyone can upload a PDF to the site (it's free) and share the link.
<c7p> i'm happy that some things have been set in order
<rickfosb> Its not to hard to do global search and replace on the chapters to fix the other version numbers... and names...
<c7p> rickfosb: this have to be done on all tex files
<c7p> if the branch will be up tomorrow, we have to do a lot of work :P
<rickfosb> yes.. I've been using vi or gvim and stepping through the chapters when I found a global that needed work
<c7p> nice
<godbyk> I'll send you guys an email as soon as I get the branch created.  I'll also upload a PDF to that site and give you the link to it.
<rickfosb> ok, what else tonight?
<rickfosb> godbyk Great!
<c7p> great all
<godbyk> Something else I think we should do soonish it to create a simple, informal survey and email it to the list.
<c7p> survey for what ?
<godbyk> I'd like to get feedback from the team members to see how we can get them involved again, why they're not actively participating at the moment, how we can make things easier, etc.
<rickfosb> godbyk; I'll put that in my email to the team!
<rickfosb> if you want?
<godbyk> rickfosb: sure!
<c7p> so rickfosb will handle the survey ?
<rickfosb> (its text... so not a 'formal' survey)
<godbyk> I can rattle of a bunch of random questions I have for the team if you like.
<rickfosb> did you have something else in mind?
<rickfosb> perfect!
<godbyk> I was thinking of just asking some rather open-ended questions and get some free-form answers.
<godbyk> Nothing scientific or anything formal.
<godbyk> I just want a better idea of where the sticking points are.
<c7p> neat
<rickfosb> you want to think about it and email me?  I'll do the email tomorrow
<godbyk> rickfosb: that sounds like a plan.
<rickfosb> cool, I'll use your email as my "go" to email the team
<c7p> btw if that helps you, you can use forms from g docs
<godbyk> 'kay.
<c7p> thank you all
<godbyk> c7p: that's not a bad idea. then all the responses can go in a spreadsheet that we can share.
<rickfosb> forms?
<c7p> godbyk: yeah you dont have to organize them :)
<c7p> check goole docs, go create > forms
<rickfosb> wow!  I never used a form... that alright
<rickfosb> thanks!
<c7p> create new*
<c7p> g2g see you soon
<godbyk> thanks for coming, c7p!
<c7p> i hope to come up with the list of what needs to be done for 11.10 tomorrow or the day after tomorrow
<rickfosb> see you and thanks c7p
<rickfosb> godbyk, ChrisWoollard, any thing else tonight?
<ChrisWoollard> not that i can think of
<godbyk> rickfosb: not that I can think of
<rickfosb> despite this, I am enjoying working with you guys
<rickfosb> i'm looking forward to the pdf annotations;
<godbyk> Guess I should do this before I forget...
<godbyk> #endmeeting.
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:12.
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<rickfosb> have a good evening, then.
<rickfosb> :)
<godbyk> Mootbot gets irked if you forget to end the meeting. :)
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-10
<andrejz> Hi!
<andrejz> I have a question about a string in translations of ubuntu manual second edition
<andrejz> I cannot find the string "Glossary" (Chapter title) in the .po file
<CarstenG> Hi at all
<CrazyLemon> hey CarstenG
<CrazyLemon> do you have any idea about "<andrejz> I cannot find the string "Glossary" (Chapter title) in the .po file" ?
<CarstenG> Read your emails :-)
<CrazyLemon> mine?
<CarstenG> I have answered some minutes before
<CrazyLemon> i didnt get any Glossary related emails :)
<CarstenG> To the mailing list
<CarstenG> Ah, yes, you are not yet subscribed to the manual team ;-)
<CrazyLemon> nope :p
<CarstenG> no problem
<CrazyLemon> and yea..i see it in the archives
<CrazyLemon> thanks
<CarstenG> I hope it helps
<CarstenG> I pushed already the fix to the quantal branch
<CrazyLemon> of course it helps! :)
<CarstenG> fine :-)
 * CrazyLemon subscribed to the UM team :>
<CarstenG> right done ;-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: I'll fill you in on some of the additional translation-related stuff in another email a bit later.  (I have to get some other work done first.)
<godbyk> But the glossaries package uses a different translation system for managing the translations of the Glossary keywords (and a few others).
<godbyk> It's not a standard babel keyword because there's no built-in convention for generating glossaries in LaTeX.
<godbyk> Also, since we're using XeLaTeX, we use polyglossia instead of babel.
<godbyk> Same thing, in effect, but polyglossia groks Unicode and OpenType.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-12
<CarstenG> Hi at all
#ubuntu-manual 2012-09-14
<bootlkhlll> mornin'
<CarstenG> Hi together.
