#edubuntu 2006-06-19
<Burgundavia> hey all
<HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<Burgundavia> not mucg
<Burgundavia> recovering from my trip
<HedgeMage> :)
<Burgundavia> leave again Wednesday, so don't have much time for Ubuntu
<HedgeMage> aww
<HedgeMage> you're allowed to have a real life, you know ;)
<Burgundavia> yep, this one pays the bills too
<HedgeMage> heh I could use one of those
<HedgeMage> hi arkan0x 
<arkan0x> hi HedgeMage
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> is it just me or has it been a while since we last did an edubuntu newsletter?
<crimsun> been a while iirc
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> I think when highvoltage is next around, I'll prod him to set up an area on the web site so they're easier to keep track of.
<HedgeMage> hiya highvoltage 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> hiya HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<highvoltage> how are things?
<highvoltage> well, first day of ubuntu summit about to start in ~45 minutes
<HedgeMage> not bad... just the usual.  I actually had something I wanted to ask you if you have a moment.
<highvoltage> just checking mail and stuff
<highvoltage> sure
<HedgeMage> Do we currently have a spot on edubuntu.org for the newsletters, or could you would you make one?
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
* Burgundavia wishes he were in Paris
<HedgeMage> aha, jsgotangco the other person I wanted to bug on that subject if possible
<jsgotangco> bonjour madamoiselle HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> Hiya hon, enjoying your trip so far?
<jsgotangco> pretty good we went to the lourve yesterday and did the tourist thing
<HedgeMage> I am sooo jealous!
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: I just suggested to highvoltage that it might be nice to make a spot on the web site for the newsletters so they are a bit more promenant.  I've had a few people ask about it, and I had to dig it up from list archives.
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: I was also wondering if I could write a small spot on Cookbook progress for future ones.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: that's a good idea
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'll get that in
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: thanks :)
<HedgeMage> that'll save me pasting it into emails for people ;)
<highvoltage> yeah.
<jsgotangco> hold on
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: also, is it meant to be a monthly thing or how often? (so I know when I should be writing these)
<HedgeMage> sorry, meant jsgotangco ^^^
<jsgotangco> hold on talking to my wife explaining why i spent 10 on water alone hahaha
<HedgeMage> rofl
<HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco's wife!
<highvoltage> heh
<jsgotangco> dude 4 for a bottle of spring water
<jsgotangco> its much cheaper to grab a pepsi
<HedgeMage> wow
<HedgeMage> that's like $7 US or thereabouts, isn't it?
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock_ 
<LaserJock_> hi
<LaserJock_> HedgeMage:  I don't have any pictures yet, highvoltage has got some goods ones though
<HedgeMage> cool :)
<HedgeMage> I can't wait
<HedgeMage> are you having fun?
<LaserJock_> yeah
<LaserJock_> little sleep
<LaserJock_> but fun
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> I wish I were there with you guys :)
<LaserJock_> yeah
<LaserJock_> we had some good edubuntu discussions already
<HedgeMage> oooh! like?
<HedgeMage> I'm sorry, you probably don't want to sit here and rehash it all :)
<HedgeMage> don't worry about it
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i don't have my camera cable with me, i'll upload tonight :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: np... I know you all are busy with things more important than letting my live vicariously your adventures ;)
<LaserJock_> HedgeMage: one laptop per child
<LaserJock_> HedgeMage: what we want to see in the futur in Edubuntu
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> BTW, while I have all of you busy people in here... anyone have a good calendar app for Linux?
<LaserJock_> hmm
<LaserJock_> evo? I think you can get sunbird too
<HedgeMage> I'll try 'em both.
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: get Dates. It runs on top of eds
<HedgeMage> eds?
<Burgundavia> evolution-data-server
<HedgeMage> ahh
<Burgundavia> the backend part of evo
<Burgundavia> http://projects.o-hand.com/dates
<HedgeMage> I don't use evolution for mail, so I'd prefer something more stand-alone...
<Burgundavia> it is standalone, that is the brilliant part
<HedgeMage> ooh
<HedgeMage> interesting
<Burgundavia> all it uses is the same backend, but that means it also integrate into your panel just like evo
<Burgundavia> it is the direction evo should be taking
<HedgeMage> I used to use a paper planner, I really like that better, but, well, I have a toddler :P
<HedgeMage> it's just one more thing I have to keep out of his reach
<HedgeMage> so I want to *try* keeping my calendar on the laptop once it's back from surgery
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I have tried and failed
<LaserJock_> my boss uses emacs for all that
<Burgundavia> anyway, need to sleep
<HedgeMage> LaserJock_: you can use emacs for everything!
<HedgeMage> LaserJock_: especially for catching up on email, usenet, and IRC while dumb TAs see emacs and think you are coding
<LaserJock_> hehe
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: cal?
<HedgeMage> hrm, was hoping to narrow it down to one or two to try...
<LaserJock_> in Linux? never!
<HedgeMage> rofl
<LaserJock_> hi rodarvus ;-)
<rodarvus> good morning :)
<LaserJock_> rodarvus: how was breakfast?
<HedgeMage> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> good, good, I'm full :)
<rodarvus> HedgeMage, hi there!
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> whohoo! party time! everyone's showing up in here now :)
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: what's the url for your blog?
<HedgeMage> That reminds me, I need to blog some more
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: any idea when I should have a cookbook blurb for you for the newsletter?
<jsgotangco> well if you want you can also liaise with mgalvin if im not around, he published the newsletter every weekend
<HedgeMage> ahh cool
<HedgeMage> every weekend? I think I've missed some... I only got the first one, which I believe you posted.
<HedgeMage> must have lost 'em when my lappy died
<jsgotangco> we dont publish different newsletters anymore we've just created one big newsletter covering all projects
<HedgeMage> ahh okay
<HedgeMage> that's why I was confused then
<HedgeMage> I somehow thought Edubuntu was just doing them less often
<HedgeMage> I'm glad I asked about it :)
<jsgotangco> sorry about the confusion
<HedgeMage> np, I'm easily confused :)
<cbx33> pygi: you got a sec?
<Amaranth> ok, i think i have my bayesian stuff working now
<Amaranth> but i cheated
<cbx33> oh hang on maybe I can do this another way
<Amaranth> i went back to the original "load everything in memory at once and pickle it to save" code
<cbx33> Amaranth: hehe
<Amaranth> i'll probably spend the week reading research papers so i can figure out how all of this really works
<cbx33> :p
<Amaranth> i only have an elementary understanding right now
<LaserJock_> cbx33: hi!
<cbx33> hey LaserJock_ 
<cbx33> you in paris?
<LaserJock_> yes
<cbx33> excellent
* cbx33 is stupid
<LaserJock_> sitting next to ogra, rodarvus, highvoltage, jsgotangco, and jdub
<cbx33> say hi to them all for me :p
* jsgotangco waves
<Amaranth> cool
<cbx33> I'm so angry I didn't know I had to add my specs to the Paris Summit
<Amaranth> i wish i could be there :(
<cbx33> I missed getting them in the approval line :(
<Amaranth> Evolution notified me that i had a meeting called "Ubuntu Developer Summit" and i got sad
<LaserJock> cbx33: ah, not to worry, I don't think it will matter too much
* cbx33 is having python nightmares
<LaserJock> heh
<cbx33> LaserJock: howz it going, what's it like?
<Amaranth> "Handling Redundancy In Email Token Probabilities"
<Amaranth> Looks like a fun read.
<cbx33> Amaranth: know much python?
<Amaranth> yeah
<cbx33> couod I pick ya brains?
<cbx33> it's a quickie
<Amaranth> btw, it's only 9am (i think) in paris
<Amaranth> so i doubt they've done much yet
<cbx33> hehe true true
<Amaranth> ask away
<cbx33> ok, I need to create a progress bar for the output of rsync
<LaserJock> cbx33: it's pretty cool, had breakfast with Mark
<cbx33> LaserJock: ex ellent ...WOW
<cbx33> Amaranth: I'm trying to read the stdout
<cbx33> with a PIPE
<LaserJock> we had like 15-20 guys hanging out in the lobby
<Amaranth> trying to read the stdout?
<Amaranth> but you generate the stdout
<cbx33> from rsync
<Amaranth> ah
<cbx33> I'm using a subprocess
<Amaranth> good luck with that
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thought you might say something like that
<Amaranth> i've never done it
<cbx33> it's not easy
<cbx33> I'm trying to use read()
<cbx33> and specifying some byte size
<Amaranth> This paper is so boring I think I'd rather go do some mathematical proofs.
<cbx33> heheh
<Amaranth> And I hate doing proofs.
<cbx33> ah derivations were soooo boring but sometimes so satisfying
* cbx33 used to love maths
<cbx33> but truth is I've probably forgotten a lot of it by now
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> non-linear differential equations in 3 dimensional space....ahhh....what a giggle
<Amaranth> 'It is useful for us to assume a "null hypothesis" that the f(w)'s are drawn from a population of random variables that is uniformly distributed and statistically independent. This assumption is false, of course.'
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ahhh hypotheses
<cbx33> so anything you would give me a tip on Amaranth 
<cbx33> with the whole python and reading stdout
<Amaranth> os.popen('rsync foo')
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> fd = os.popen('rsync foo')
<Amaranth> while data = fd.read(1024):
<Amaranth>     print 'i should do something'
<Amaranth> you can't really do that while line
<Amaranth> but it's a quick explanation of what to do
<crimsun> cbx33: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq23.020.htp
<crimsun> cbx33: james is online as jamesh, but he may be busy
<pc22> hi DanielC
<LaserJock> highvoltage: how's your power?
<cbx33> hanxs crimsun 
<DanielC> What's the usual Ubuntu runlevel? I ran the "runlevel" command and it says 2. Shouldn't that be 5?
<DanielC> ping?
<DanielC> Ok, a few people just entered the room. Maybe someone can tell me the usual Ubuntu runlevel.
<DanielC> The "runlevel" command says "2" but I was expecting "5".
<DanielC> Isn't 5 the runlevel for networking+X11 ?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> jsgotangco, highvoltage, rodarvus : power?
<jsgotangco> im connected at jdub's uber extension
<LaserJock> heh, me too
<rodarvus> I need to connect my laptop to a powersource
<EmxBA> hi!
<rodarvus> you you have any free spot on the connector, I'd be very thankful :)
<EmxBA> anyone heard of my artwork?
<EmxBA> now it is available at ubuntu.juliux.de/stuff/emx/edubuntu
<rodarvus> thanks guys :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i'm fine for now thanks
<EmxBA> hi highvoltage
<EmxBA> haven't seen you for days :)
* cbx33 is baffled are you guys not sitting right next to each other?
<cbx33> or are you tryingto give us the Paris experience :p
<EmxBA> anyone coming to possible debconf7 in sarajevo, bosnia and herzegovina?
<cbx33> hey ogra, ograsync is getting there :) I have the rsync tie in working fine :p
<DanielC> Does anyone know the default runlevel of Ubuntu? When I run "runlevel" it says 2. Shouldn't that be 5? (networking+XWindows).
<crimsun> DanielC: like most, if not all, Debian-based distros, it's 2.
<DanielC> crimsun: That's interesting.
<crimsun> DanielC: Debian doesn't play runlevel games. Runlevels 2-5 are identical.
<DanielC> I see.
<DanielC> Thanks for the info.
<crimsun> np
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> why is it the line DanielC: Debian doesn't play runlevel games. keeps putting the word Quake into my head
<cbx33> it's too early
<DanielC> he he
<DanielC> You a quake fan?
<cbx33> yeh...
<cbx33> well was
<DanielC> ok :)
<DanielC> I sucked at it.
<jsgotangco> heh
<kbrooks> cbx33: ping
<kbrooks> cbx33: #gisomount 
<kbrooks> cbx33: thanks
<cbx33> kbrooks: I can;t get in there today
<cbx33> I'm on cgiirc at the mo
<cbx33> can you pm me?
<kbrooks> cbx33: yes
<kbrooks> bbl school
<EmxBA> hi
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> woot
<cbx33> anyone near ogra?
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes, about 300km
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: thanks to our resident HedgeMage I have a shiny new cloak :)
<jsgotangco> really?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: so, what have you been up to ?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yep.
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: im in paris beside ogra
<Yagisan> lucky guy
<Petaris> To use ltsp do I need to grab edubuntu or can I grab xubuntu and apt-get ltsp?
<DanielC> Use edubuntu
<Petaris> DanielC: And then just apt-get xubuntu?
<DanielC> I'd guess:  xubuntu-desktop
<DanielC> Note: I haven't tried this myself.
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> I'll give that a try
<DanielC> Let me know if it works, I'd be interested to know.
<Petaris> well, thats how I did it last time
<Petaris> but I was curious if I could avoid getting all the gnome and kde stuff
<DanielC> Yes you can, but it's probably more difficult.
<DanielC> Installing xubuntu-desktop afterwards is easier than configuring ltsp afterwards.
<Petaris> ok
<DanielC> But you can try it that way. You *will* get it to work eventually. I've never done it, but it can certainly be done.
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I might play with doing it that way then
<Petaris> jsut for the hell of it
<DanielC> It would be a learning experience.
<DanielC> If I get a chance I think I'll try that too on a test server.
<Petaris> yep, if its not difficult I could write a how-to
<Petaris> DanielC: Dapper or Edgy?
<DanielC> Dapper
<Petaris> ok
<Yagisan> Petaris: it is easier to install edubuntu first, but no, you don't need edubuntu installed to set up ltsp
<Yagisan> Petaris: you can install xubuntu, then install ltsp, you'll just need to manually configure ltsp
<Petaris> Yagisan: ok, I'm going to try using xubuntu as the base just to try it
<Petaris> Yagisan: Is it the latest ltsp?
<Yagisan> Petaris: I used normal ubuntu as the base for myself
<DanielC> What's the advantage of using Xubuntu other than personal preference?
<Petaris> I heard there is a new version out
<Yagisan> Petaris: in dapper ? yes
<Yagisan> Petaris: ltsp.org and ubuntu ltsp work differently
<Petaris> DanielC: less overhead for terminals
<Yagisan> Petaris: ubuntu's ltsp is the next generation version
<DanielC> Gnome really adds overhead on the terminals?
<Petaris> Yagisan: oh damn, thats right
<Petaris> DanielC: compared to xfce4 it does
<Yagisan> Petaris: sudo aptitude install ltsp and it's installed. Then you need to configure it
<DanielC> ok
<Petaris> Yagisan: right
<Petaris> DanielC: When you are running a number of clients the overhead adds up
<Petaris> its not like just running a single instance
<DanielC> It isn't?
<DanielC> Isn't that the whole point of using thin clients?
<DanielC> That you don't have to duplicate the heap for every user?
<Petaris> you get an instance for each client
<Petaris> the point is low cost hardware and easy upgrade/managability
<DanielC> But running two instances of Gnome on the same computer still shares the same heap.
<DanielC> It's just the user data that changes.
<DanielC> (and hence, can't be shared)
<DanielC> The reason why the hardware is low cost is that you're not duplicating everything for every user.
<Petaris> low cost hardware because no disk drives, and the bulk of the processing is done server side
<DanielC> The reason why the server doesn't require the resources of 20 computers to run 20 clients is that you are not replicating everything.
<DanielC> If a regular computer requires 512MB of RAM, running LTSP with 10 terminals does not require 5120MB of RAM.
<DanielC> In fact, 1-2GB will do.
<DanielC> Because 90% of what's in RAM is the heap (the code itself for the application) and that stuff is not replicated.
<DanielC> It's the same reason why having two Firefox windows open doesn't take up twice as much RAM as having one.
<Petaris> My perception in running is that xfce is faster and lighter then gnome
<DanielC> I'm not arguing with that :)
<Petaris> and thus was a better choice for a thin-client enviornment
<DanielC> I didn't say Gnome was as fast as xfce. I said that you're not duplicating all of gnome for each user.
<Petaris> perhaps not
<DanielC> Whether it's better depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
<Petaris> for me xfce does what I need
<Petaris> I would love to know why OO.org eats so many more resources on edubuntu then on k12ltsp
<Petaris> I wonder what the difference is
<Petaris> was OO.org modified on one of these distros?
<DanielC> No idea.
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> its odd
<Petaris> but then again the fc/redhat group is known for doing wierd things in packages
<EmxBA> hi
<kbrooks> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> kbrooks, pong
<pc22> hey DanielC
<kbrooks> cbx33: you were confused...
<kbrooks> cbx33: hold on, ill pm why
<Petaris> Is there a resource on how to setup remote X over ssh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks kbrooks 
<kbrooks> cbx33: well, i dont have to pm. but anyway
<kbrooks> cbx33: http://kbrooks.ath.cx/gisomount/ - this had a working tree
<kbrooks> cbx33: .bzr/branch was "up to date"
<kbrooks> cbx33: you were confused because you assumed that the *working tree* was old
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> how can I start an xfce session over ssh?
<Petaris> do I just issue a startx?
<Petaris> I wouldn't think so
<Petaris> *as X is already running on that system
<dan_young> Petaris: can you ssh -X to the server, then Xnest -query localhost :1
<Petaris> hrm, I don't have Xnest
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> is it safe to apt-get it?
<Petaris> that is, will it scew up Xorg?
<Petaris> or try to remove it or something
<dan_young> Petaris: shouldn't be a problem, not sure what package it is in, just a sec....
<dan_young> Xnest goes on the system you're ssh'ing to, of course...
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> but its an ltsp server and I don't want to screw anything up
<dan_young> sure, package name is xnest, it is just an "Xserver in a window"
<Petaris> ok, cool
<dan_young> Petaris: hmm, needs XDMCP on to do "remote" login, even though we're coming from localhost...
<Petaris> root@Ayumi:~# Xnest -query localhost :1
<Petaris> Fatal server error:
<Petaris> Unable to open display "".
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> oh, oops I'm still root
<Petaris> petaris@Ayumi:~$ Xnest -query :1
<Petaris> Fatal server error:
<Petaris> Xserver: Name or service not known: -query :1
<Petaris> hrm
<dan_young> Petaris: Xnest -query localhost :1
<dan_young> you'll have to edit /etc/gdm/gdm.conf and enable XDMCP
<Petaris> petaris@Ayumi:~$ Xnest -query localhost :1
<Petaris> _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed
<Petaris> _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running
<Petaris> Fatal server error:
<Petaris> Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
<Petaris> ok, let me check that
<dan_young> Petaris: that does have some security implications to leave open on a hostile network, so be advised...
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> still can't get it to work
<dan_young> Petaris: it's working on my K12LTSP box, not sure what's different...
<dan_young> Petaris: I'm seeing the same issue on Edubuntu, though; I'm less familiar with their setup.
<Petaris> hrm
<cbx33> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<cbx33> without looking
<cbx33> I see your messages function
#edubuntu 2006-06-20
<Amaranth> Ok, my bayesian library works perfectly the first two times you use it.
<Amaranth> s/use/train/
<Amaranth> then it goes all pear shaped
<Burgwork> Amaranth, cool
<Burgwork> Amaranth, aside from that, is it working all right?
<Amaranth> Burgwork: Appears to be, yeah.
<Amaranth> Once I realized using a generator for the tokens wasn't a good idea.
<Amaranth> I need to loop through the tokens twice, can't really do that with a generator. :P
<Amaranth> interesting
<Amaranth> i think i'm close to the solution
<cbx33> nice one Amaranth 
<cbx33> oh just to metion I sorted the problem I was having earlier
<rodarvus> good night
<Amaranth> I have a feeling I'm going to need to strip buildCache down to just buildCorpus
<Amaranth> I think trying to build a cache with the DB backend is fscking it up
<Amaranth> it is
<Amaranth> IT WORKS! IT WORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> and I was here for the historic moment
* cbx33 is still wrapping resetns for his wifes 21st
<Seveas> %config channel plugins.myfactoids.database ubuntu
<Seveas> !bot
<Seveas> %config channel plugins.myfactoids.database ubuntu
<Seveas> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
<ogra> hey Seveas 
<Seveas> hi
<pc22> hey DanielC
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> ah, highvoltage , you woke up
<DanielC> Why does my desktop require the acpi-support package? That's stupid.
<DanielC> I can't remove it without removing things like gnome-panel, gnome-session and gnome-control-center
<pc22> why is openoffice so bloated
<Amaranth> morning
<ogra> hey
<Amaranth> ogra: bzr branch http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng
<ogra> YAY !
* ogra branches
* jsgotangco branches
<Amaranth> still some weird parts but  it does run
<Amaranth> just run python willowng.in for now and setup a browser to talk to localhost:8008 for http and https
<jsgotangco> 2 revs heh
<ogra> well, nobody expects yet that its perfect ;)
<jsgotangco> that was short
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: one for "oh this needs to be in bzr" and one for "hey, i fixed it!"
<jsgotangco> lol
<ogra> hehe
<Amaranth> the bayesian bits need a lot more documentation
<Amaranth> if you can figure out what they do, please tell me ;)
<ogra> haha
<ogra> any particular site i could test with ? 
<Amaranth> nope, the corpus is empty
<Amaranth> no training
<ogra> http://www.realistanew.com/ at least is blocked by the domainfilter :)
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i still need to hook that up to the db
<ogra> Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will not help.
<ogra> haha, i like the part after the doubledash :)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> that's all stock BaseHTTPRequestHandler stuff right now
<ogra> Amaranth, do you have already created a launcpad product for it ? 
<ogra> (https://launchpad.net/products/+new=
<ogra> (https://launchpad.net/products/+new)
<ogra> (sorry)
<Amaranth> err, i knew i forgot something
<Amaranth> but i think i want a name first, otherwise my url will always look goofy when i get one
<ogra> after you created it, you can add your branch as the upstream branch for it
<ogra> so we can put it on the supermirror
<bimberi> Amaranth: i was just going to ask if there was a name :)
<Amaranth> naming is hard :P
<ogra> bimberi, got a suggestion ? we're still looking for one
<bimberi> surely you're sick of my suggestions by now!
<Amaranth> hehe
* bimberi was probably one of 56674637 to suggest 'smeg'
<bimberi> i still like BayesWatch though
<ogra> WebPolice :)
<bimberi> WebWatch(er)
<Amaranth> SiteBayes is the best i can come up with
<Amaranth> although iirc Robinson-Fisher isn't really a bayesian system
<Amaranth> it's just tossed in  there as one because it's based on it
<bimberi> ah, kk
<Amaranth> i dunno, that was about the time when my head started hurting
<ogra> i'll ask tomorrow in the morning talk, there are ~50 ppl here at the conference ...
<Amaranth> hehe, yay
<bimberi> ogra: lunch break atm i guess?
<jsgotangco> almost
<Amaranth> almost noon there
* ogra goes looking if we have some merchandize around, so we could make a naming contest
* Amaranth wants an ubuntu sticker for his laptop
<jsgotangco> he we don't even have cds :(
<Amaranth> who do i have to kill to get one? :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, silbs will bring them if she comes i guess
<jsgotangco> wooo
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hey there
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm here
* Amaranth looks around
<Amaranth> lunch break over?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Amaranth> ogra come back :P
<highvoltage> Amaranth: i think so :)
<Amaranth> I need to know what he wants me to have done for "Google solicits mid-program mentor evaluations of student progress"
<jsgotangco> i hate this moving around floors
<highvoltage> ogra's ibook is on the tablenext to us. he doesn't seem around though
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: where are you now?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: whatever, just stay over there
<jsgotangco> haha
<highvoltage> lol
<jsgotangco> im having fun with my outlet here
<LaserJock> I bet you are
<Amaranth> highvoltage: ibook?
<highvoltage> Amaranth: his laptop (apple ibook)
<Amaranth> highvoltage: Want to make $50? ;)
<jsgotangco> lol
<LaserJock> quick, somebody still ogra's ibook
<LaserJock> steal
<jsgotangco> id like an ibook
<LaserJock> not that one
<LaserJock> I want a macbook
<Amaranth> no you don't
<Amaranth> QA issues
<jsgotangco> i dont care at all
<highvoltage> well, this gets logged
<Amaranth> highvoltage: hehe
<LaserJock> Amaranth: worse than the intel iMacs?
<highvoltage> i think ogra knows us well wnought to check the logs as soon as his laptop is stolen
<Amaranth> LaserJock: yeah
<jsgotangco> do you remember ogra saying he can't do anything if his ibook gets stolen
<Amaranth> the case on the macbook turns brown
<LaserJock> ewwww
<Amaranth> people think it's from the excessive heat
<LaserJock> that is so not white
<highvoltage> let's just take care of his laptop for him
<highvoltage> so that someone else doesn't steal it
<highvoltage> i think it will be safe in my bag :)
* Amaranth twiddles his thumbs
<bimberi> Hello BOF Session! :)
<bddebian> Hello
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> (late)
<Amaranth> anyone seen ogra?
<dan_young> Amaranth: prob busy in Paris at Ubuntu summit
<Amaranth> i know
<jsgotangco> Amaranth: he's here in front of me
<Amaranth> i meant has anyone seen him there
<Amaranth> speaking?
<jsgotangco> we're doing a lab at the moment
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> can you ask him a question for me or is it a bad time?
<jsgotangco> his ibook is turned off because all of us in edubuntu are expermenting
<jsgotangco> im sure he'll be online in a few minutes we're almost done we had a 2-hour lab session
<Amaranth> ok, cool
<jsgotangco> i'll tell him too
<jsgotangco> i gotta move downstairs
<Amaranth_> damn apartment building
<Amaranth_> it's got like 12 wireless networks
<Amaranth> ogra: What do you want me to have done by the half-way point? (june 28th)
<ogra> Amaranth, what *can* you have done by then ? 
<Amaranth> probably the dbus interface :P
<ogra> what about a basic glade gui, so we have something to show ?
<Amaranth> maybe the start of a gtk frontend that uses it
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra> that'd be fine 
<ogra> being able to show off with some screenshots and have something that already does some basic things (domain blocking) is good for the half-way i think
<Amaranth> well it already does bayesian filtering too
<Amaranth> i just don't have any training data included with it
<ogra> well, we'll likely have to find a way to get around shipping porn in the package ;)
<Amaranth> that's not needed
<Amaranth> just words like 'sex', 'porn', etc in the db
<ogra> like a button in the gui that downloads a page as initial training data 
* jsgotangco yawns
<ogra> if buzzwords suffice for an initial implementation thats fine with me
<ogra> jsgotangco, get some coffee
<Amaranth> well that was just an example
<Amaranth> once a get a frontend going (or safety boat starts talking to it) i could spend a day or so training it
<Amaranth> what were you talking about with /etc/defaults and such?
<ogra> that was for the initscript
<Amaranth> i'd like to get all the boring setup stuff done soon
<Amaranth> yeah, i'll need one of those
<ogra> Amaranth, btw, does it actually cache anything ? 
<ogra> (just wondering, not that that would be a requirement)
<lucasvo> ogra: can't we forbid double posting on edubunt-users and dev?
<lucasvo> its annoying
<ogra> complain :)
<lucasvo> ogra: -users contains -dev, right?
<ogra> not anymore
<ogra> the initial setup was to copy all users from -dev to -users
<ogra> but many of them unsubscribed on one or the other
<ogra> and we have a lot of new subscribers
<jsgotangco> hmm so that's why -dev is quiet
* jsgotangco should subscribe to -users
<DaSkreech> Whats the Dynamic menus listed on the paris Schedule?
<Amaranth> ogra: no caching
<mpt> yo
<DaSkreech> Fo real
<lucasvo> blubb
<student> I installed edubuntu 6.06, I get errors when I try to run any of the KDE programs (under education), for example, KTouch won't even work, any idea why?
#edubuntu 2006-06-21
<bddebian> Hello
<mhz> arkan0x: arregla los cables poh!!
* HedgeMage peeks in
<crimsun> evenin'
<crimsun> err, mornin'
<Amaranth> Man, I'm going to have so much fun with this bayesian library.
<Amaranth> You can use it to write, say, a factoid bot that figures out what you want on it's own when you ask it a question.
<crimsun> so is it going to spit out 42 for everything or just that one question?
<Amaranth> Instead of "!ati" you could ask it "How do I make my ATI card work?" and it could figure out you wanted the ati factoid
<Amaranth> hehe
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<Burgundavia> not much
<HedgeMage> Are you in Paris with the others?
<Burgundavia> no, sadly not
<Burgundavia> work conflicted
<bimberi> Where is the current version of the EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy document?
<Burgundavia> bimberi: doc team svn
<HedgeMage> aww
<bimberi> Burgundavia: thanks, any website though? help.u.c?
<Burgundavia> bimberi: wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarting I think
<HedgeMage> bimberi: there was a copy on the edubuntu wiki at some point, but i've no idea how current it is
<bimberi> HedgeMage: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<Burgundavia> bimberi: that is very very old
<HedgeMage> bimberi: if you can't do SVN, I can pull a copy and email it to you.
<bimberi> yes, i'm linking to it from another page and wanted to update the link
<HedgeMage> bimberi: I have the doc tree anyway thanks to cookbook
<HedgeMage> ok one sec, let my sync in case anything was added over the weekend.
<Burgundavia> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
<Burgundavia> there is the link
<HedgeMage> aha
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia has it for ya :)
<Burgundavia> that is not permanent
<bimberi> HedgeMage: thankyou! it's ok though, i'm at revision 3144 :)
<HedgeMage> :)
<bimberi> Burgundavia: aha, thanks, i'll link to that with qualifying text
<Burgundavia> bimberi: what page are you linking from?
<HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> bonjour!
* jsgotangco woke up waaaayyyyyyyyyy to early
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good morning Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> heh, good night for me
<Burgundavia> any, that is good night
<Burgundavia> might not be on very much
<HedgeMage> :)
* HedgeMage makes jsgotangco some tea to wake him up
<Amaranth> 7am in paris
<Amaranth> either you didn't party last night or you're cruel to yourself
<HedgeMage> lol
<jsgotangco> 8am
<jsgotangco> i still a bit jetlagged considering its now 2pm in my home
<HedgeMage> hehe
<jsgotangco> but at the moment, its just me, BenC and colin in the room hogging the bandwidth
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> I'm not a good roommate... I snore, I keep odd hours, and I hog the bandwidth :P
<HedgeMage> so you folks are probably glad I'm not there :P
<crimsun> what you mean, susan, is that you'd fit right in.
<HedgeMage> LOL
<HedgeMage> so we're all whackos? I'd never have guessed :P
<crimsun> yeah, I should be asleep two hours ago
<bimberi> :/  missed Burgundavia's question
<HedgeMage> want to know what's really sick? I should be sleeping but I'm about to play monopoly online with a friend because we haven't in a while and it sounds fun
<HedgeMage> any of you other non-sleeping people want to join us?
<crimsun> I'd love to, but I think I'm going to kick myself for missing the alarm for an 8:30 presentation
<HedgeMage> the client, atlantik, is available on the repos
<HedgeMage> crimsun: ouch :(
<crimsun> take a few hotels for me, though :)
<HedgeMage> :)
* HedgeMage will buy the hotel the ubuntu folks are staying in so she can join in the fun ;)
* crimsun chuckles
<HedgeMage> hmm, I suppose that means we have to play the Euro game board rather than the traditional one...
* HedgeMage ponders
<bimberi> We got a "Millenium Edition" recently.  $2million for passing go :)
<bimberi> But went back to the old one, it's much better for my sons' maths ($28 rent, "give me $30 and i'll give you $2")
<highvoltage> good morning
<EmxBA> hi everyone
<EmxBA> bluekuja: ping
<EmxBA> highvoltage: ping
<EmxBA> I really need to tell you something *important*
<EmxBA> the site I am working on
<EmxBA> "skolarci"
<EmxBA> school-kid
<EmxBA> is now available (english) on http://emx.abshost.net/skolarci/
<EmxBA> HedgeMage: ping
<EmxBA> hi jane_
<xwind_> hello ...
<xwind_> When installing xubuntu - ltsp server on i386 the screen blanks-out during chroot build. There appears to be some activity after that but the screen stays like that forcing me to reboot the computer without finishing the installation. Is this a bug? I tried edubuntu and the same behaviour is observed. I have dapper 6.06 LTS.
<chupacabras> I installed edubuntu by accident, I was thinking I was installing ubuntu desktop, but I think I like it.
<jsgotangco> lol
* jsgotangco hugs chupacabras
<chupacabras> I guess is gonna give me the same functionality anyway.
<chupacabras> I'm gonna give it a try, The app calle Tux Paint rocks, maybe I would never had used it before if it wasn't for this accidental instalation.
<jsgotangco> supertux heh
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, you wouldn't hug chupacabras if you knew the meaning of his name :)
<jsgotangco> meh
<jsgotangco> ewww i love my blood
<chupacabras> So, are you all teachers?
<pier> hi !
<jsgotangco> hi!
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<LaserJock> long time, no see
<jsgotangco> yes its been a while
<highvoltage> where have you guys been!?
<rodarvus> downstairs :)
<xwind_> hello oliver, got my mail?
<xwind_> got ur reply. thanks.
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> are we having a meeting later?
<LaserJock> rodarvus: yeah, are we going to meet today
<ogra> jsgotangco, hmm ... 
<LaserJock> rodarvus: my schedule is pretty light
<rodarvus> great
<ogra> that'd be 10pm today then
<jsgotangco> heck why not make a live meeting heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, beacuse we do that all day anyway ? 
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> ogra: do you have plans going out?
<ogra> well, there is that festival in paris ... 
<ogra> not sure yet
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> the ltsp stuff this morning has added a *lot* to my todo 
<rodarvus> which kind of music is going on on the festival:
<rodarvus> ?
<jsgotangco> are we approving rodarvus?
<ogra> jazz i heard
<rodarvus> jazz is great stuff
<ogra> jsgotangco, please make him an admin on all teams *if* we decide to approve him ;)
<jsgotangco> fete de la musique
<LaserJock> big if there ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> we should probably vote on it ;)
<rodarvus> :)
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: i heard beer is a good motivator
<LaserJock> sure, I need to grilling practice
<ogra> so he has a chance to bribe ;)
<LaserJock> more eiffiel towers?
<ogra> lol
<jsgotangco> well i should see paris at night
<rodarvus> haha
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: its probably the same as in the day, but a bit darker
<jsgotangco> yeah like it gets dark here at 10PM
<ogra> LaserJock, are you even sure you can take them home with you ? homeland security might take them as a weapon with that tip :)
<LaserJock> ogra: good point ;-)
<LaserJock> I'll have to sneak them in my luggage
<LaserJock> I'll just say that I got them in the US (made in China) ;-)
<ogra> rodarvus, we can only accept you in the edubuntu-members team in a EC meeting 
<ogra> but since we even have RL quorum we can make a quick one here later ;)
<jsgotangco> beer *cough*
<ogra> jsgotangco, no, i mean he needs to fulfill the prerequisites like everybody else ...
<LaserJock> water *cough*
<rodarvus> 'k, I'll get beer + water + wine at the supermarket later today :)
<ogra> i.e. wikipage review ... check for signed CoC tell us his vision 
<rodarvus> ogra, sure, no problem
<jsgotangco> fair enough but i give him + points on beer
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> well, me too 
<ogra> seems we'll get *really* drunk tonight
<ogra> all these teams
<rodarvus> actually, I'd really want follow the correct procedure to join all groups
<LaserJock> I don't except beer as bribes, I can't get the stuff down
<LaserJock> a Pepsi maybe
<rodarvus> you don't drink beer?
<ogra> rodarvus, only edubuntu-members is restricted
<rodarvus> ogra, oh, ok
<jsgotangco> there's IV beer if you want
<rodarvus> there's non-alcoholic beer if you don't mind its taste ;)
<rodarvus> wine also is quite ok
<rodarvus> I'd like to go to the supermarket (maybe after lunch) and get a few bottles
<rodarvus> not the expensive ones doko bought, but I'm looking for quality wine still
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: i'll go with you
<jsgotangco> i want to see the countryside if it doesn't rain
<rodarvus> great
<rodarvus> oh, yeah :/
<rodarvus> it look like its going to rain today
<rodarvus> well, we'll see
<jsgotangco> how does it feel paying 20 for an adapter
<rodarvus> I've just sent an email to my wife
<jsgotangco> haha
<rodarvus> and didn't mentioned the adapter :D
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> I told my wife how smart I was to go to Wal-Mart before I left ;-)
<rodarvus> Laser_away, you're right :)
<jsgotangco> i am with my wife on gtalk now and told her i am driniking tap water and she said i should buy bottled lol
<rodarvus> the thing is, I wasn't able to find an adapter before I left Brazil
<rodarvus> thats the problem with (un)developing countries
<jsgotangco> so i'll probably buy that money for bottled water for beer instaed hahaha
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: same here i was told a standard 2 prong Europlug should work
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, good idea ;)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: well, it does if you have the right one
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> now i know why some are a bit higher than usual
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, yeah, actually, the "universal" power adapter has no french output (just a thin european plug, which is also ok)
<rodarvus> s/power adapter/power adapter I bought/
<jsgotangco> as long as its higher than usual
<rodarvus> yup, that oo
<rodarvus> too even
<xwind_> ogra: xubuntu ltsp install a success.
<xwind_> thanks for the hint.
<xwind_> after a "successful" xubuntu install, i am getting this error on my thinclient: "mount: 172.29.2.200:/opt/ltsp/i386 failed, reason given by server: Permission Denied". Hints please.
<highvoltage> xwind_: what's in /etc/exports?
<highvoltage> xwind_: is nfs-kernel-server running?
<xwind_> i see several nfs when doing ps -ef|grep nfsd
<xwind_> i have this in my /etc/exports: /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<highvoltage> hmm... that seems fine. can you hang around a while? i could ask ogra in a few minutes, he's just busy drafting a sspec atm.
<xwind_> ok. one thing though. during my xubuntu ltsp install, the screen blanked out during the chroot build.
<xwind_> then, after ogra confirmed that it was a xorg bug, i just let the install proceed blindly and hit the enter key when the machine is inactive.
<xwind_> I pressed the Enter key twice perhaps accepting a default option without really knowing the question. :)
<xwind_> then the install was finished as indicated by the cd tray coming out. i booted and there it was the xubuntu desktop.
<highvoltage> you might be able to resuem the ltsp setup section by doing a ltsp-build-client
<highvoltage> but i think it would be best ifyou hang around for ogra
<xwind_> i'll wait.
<xwind_> highvoltage: no luck. ogra just left.
<chido> Hi
<bddebian> Hello
<pygi> hello people
<LaserJock> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey hey LaserJock, what's up? :)
<LaserJock> specing
<pygi> ah :)
<pygi> nice ^^
<cberlo> Hi folks.  I just installed Edubuntu from the live CD and found out that LTSP wasn't a default part of that install.  Are there complete instructions for this method of installation to get the "full" LTSP server install up and running?
<LaserJock> use the alternate cd
<LaserJock> the livecd doesn't have enough space to do the ltsp server part, I believe
<cberlo> LaserJock: At this point, I already have everything installed to my hard drive.  I've installed the ltsp-server-standalone and followed the instructions from ThinClientHowto to complete the install.  I know I did it the hard way, but is there documentation I missed somewhere?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure if it says something on the edubuntu website or not, it might
<LaserJock> if you get a CD from shipit it will be the alternate cd, it might be called something else
<cberlo> Okay.  I've got those on order, but I want to get testing this stuff right away -- we have an opening for Open Source and I want to take advantage ASAP.  :)
<cberlo> Basically, once I get all the necessary stuff installed, I run "sudo ltsp-client-build", right?
<cberlo> er... ltsp-build-client
<cberlo> Okay, well where can I make a suggestion on clarifying the documentation?  (i.e. make sure you use xyz CD to install, not the live CD; if you use the live CD, you'll need to follow abc instructions)
* HedgeMage peeks back in
<Amaranth> are we doing the edubuntu meeting?
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> Amaranth: in about 1.5 hours
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> Amaranth, hey hey
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<pygi> working on fixing bugs, and just registered two projects of mine on LP
<pygi> so you could file bugs and test them :P
<pygi> Thinking of student reviews also...
<Amaranth> HedgeMage: 2.5
<HedgeMage> darn time zones... :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: which projects?
<pygi> HedgeMage, Diva and Bonfire
<HedgeMage> bonfire == cd burning IIRC, what's Diva?
<pygi> HedgeMage, www.diva-project.org
<Amaranth> HedgeMage: i got the ical from the fridge
<Amaranth> evolution converts to local time for me
<Amaranth> back in a bit, need to move the modem/router
<HedgeMage> pygi: ahh fun
<pygi> HedgeMage, :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, test Bonfire? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: remind me when this crazy week is over.
<pygi> HedgeMage, hehe, oki :)
<juliux> greetings
<pygi> best regards jinty 
<pygi> juliux, 
<pygi> *
<HedgeMage> hi juliux 
<juliux> has somebody allready a edubuntu dapper cd?
<HedgeMage> I have ones I burned... my pressed ones haven't arrived yet
<juliux> ok
<HedgeMage> Ugh, my laptop came back from the hospital needing 92 package upgrades
<HedgeMage> sheesh
<Burgwork> dapper or breezy?
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> meeting tonight right?
<HedgeMage> depends on if it's day or night where you are. :P  Yes, in about 1.5 hours
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> how are you HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: not bad, you?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<HedgeMage> brb grabbing a power cord for the lappy
<popey> hello cbx33 
<cbx33> hey popey 
<cbx33> howz it going
<popey> yeah not bad
<popey> raving to people about sbackup
<cbx33> I've been writing python apps :D
<cbx33> sbackup??
<popey> so i see
<popey> a python frontend which controlls regular backups
<cbx33> hehe going quite well
<popey> apt-get it, it's lovely
<cbx33> oooh nice
<cbx33> well if you handle isos frequently
<popey> backup to local dir or remote location, usb hdd, whatever, very nicely done
<popey> yeah, looks neat, i like it
<cbx33> give gisomount a try and lemme know if it works good
<cbx33> will be looking for beta testers soon
<popey> count me in
<cbx33> it'll hopefully be in universe sometime next week
<popey> excellent, well done
<cbx33> and I'm also doing one to keep the daily cd builds up to date
<cbx33> ogra wrote a script that goes and coolects them
<cbx33> so I made afront end
<cbx33> still in heavy beta at the mo
* Yagisan tried sbackup. i stopped when I couldn't get gmaifs to work. I wanted to backup to gmailfs.
<cbx33> gmail fs?
<cbx33> popey, howz the job going?
<popey> not bad, finish soon, going to take some time off :)
<popey> gmailfs allows you to access your email space on gmail as if it was a filesystem
<popey> you could backup to a location then script the upload to gmailfs?
<lucasvo> popey: and encrypt it :)
<popey> ah, good point
<Yagisan> nope. gmailfs refused to work at all
<lucasvo> google is bigbrother
<popey> oh, ok
* Yagisan has hundreds of invites
<popey> in this country google is the least of my worries
* Yagisan planed to raid the gmailfs
<cbx33> popey, hehehe
<popey> we have a big brother state, but that's for another channel I'm sure
<Yagisan> 2gb x 300 invites == lots of space
<Yagisan> just think of all the crap^W stuff you could upload
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> how does gmailfs work?
<cbx33> is it sent as http traffic?
<popey> or https i guess
<popey> you can use https with gmail
<HedgeMage> cbx33: it's a protocol designed to give people like me the creeps :P
<Yagisan> cbx33: it's sent as emails, with a 2mb chunk size
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> I thinking of the school here
<cbx33> everything apart from 80 443 and 25 is blocked
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> not 25
<cbx33> 21
<cbx33> but it'srestricted to anon download only for 21
* Yagisan fires up a fully pimped out version of doomsday while waiting for his son to burp
* Yagisan will probally scare it out of him
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 would love an openVPN solution
<cbx33> esxcept it's against the TOS
<Yagisan> cbx33: really ?
<cbx33> yup
<DanielC> What is TOS?
<Yagisan> it really says no vpn ?
<cbx33> it's connecting the citys network to an open network
<cbx33> they don't allow that
<Yagisan> DanielC: Terms Of Service
<DanielC> thanks
<cbx33> sorry DanielC 
<Yagisan> cbx33: ah, plain hhtp violates that then
<Yagisan> s/hhtp/http
<Yagisan> bub kicking me while I type
<DanielC> Phone lines violate that :)
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> DanielC, yes
<cbx33> if we have a laptop connected to the phoneline and to the network at the same time we are breaking the ToS
<cbx33> even if it's not dialed out
<DanielC> heh
<cbx33> Yagisan, http traffic is filtered through them
<cbx33> so they class that as safe
<Yagisan> cbx33: not 443 (ssl)
<DanielC> email?
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> DanielC, denied
<Yagisan> cbx33: they can't filter it
<cbx33> Yagisan, I know
<Yagisan> so you *are* wide open
<Yagisan> stunnel
<cbx33> Yagisan, true
<Yagisan> it looks like normal ssl traffic
<cbx33> stunnel eh?
<Yagisan> heh heh heh
<cbx33> tuneel one port to antoher of 443?
<cbx33> is that like openvpn?
<Yagisan> cbx33: it wraps things in ssl
<Yagisan> you'll still need an endpoint outside to relay for you
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> Yagisan, you happen to have one?
<cbx33> :p
* Yagisan notes with some irony that he is doing the exact opposite of his day job
<cbx33> Yagisan, yeh but in trusted hands it's ok
<cbx33> and plus it can't go back into the network again
<Yagisan> cbx33: sure, if you don't mind 64kbit (what I'm shaped too)
<cbx33> Yagisan, that'd be fine for what I need
<cbx33> so....if for example I wanted to ssh to somewhere
<cbx33> I would use stunnel 
<Yagisan> cbx33: what you want is your app port x -> wrapper port y -> Internet -> a remote box -> final destination
<cbx33> did you get my pm?
<Yagisan> cbx33: tony blair ? no he's still in the UK
* HedgeMage chuckles
<HedgeMage> anyone else going to the meeting or is it just me?
* lucasvo is wondering when his shipit cds will get delivered
<HedgeMage> no clue, mine aren't here yet either
<HedgeMage> hiya pygi 
<pygi> heya HedgeMage 
<pygi> HedgeMage, it's not good to run so many systems on so little ram :P
<HedgeMage> lol
<pygi> HedgeMage, just you laugh :P
#edubuntu 2006-06-22
<HedgeMage> awfully quiet in here...
* bimberi watches a tumbleweed roll by
<HedgeMage> heh
* Amaranth looks around
<HedgeMage> hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hi
<Amaranth> (late)
* Amaranth can't wait for the l-r-m to go with the 2.6.17 kernel
<HedgeMage> l-r-m ?
<Amaranth> i'm going to use it on dapper, it's supposed to have support for my card reader
<Amaranth> linux-restricted-modules
<HedgeMage> ahh
<Amaranth> and maybe my laptop will hibernate correctly
<HedgeMage> :)
<Amaranth> my grandpa is so excited
<Amaranth> i have him my mac mini
<HedgeMage> :)
<Amaranth> it's running OS X, but that's because i know iPhoto works
<Amaranth> and he takes a lot of pictures
<Amaranth> he even got one of those expensive HP Photosmart printers
<Amaranth> he was up about an hour later than normal playing with it :)
<Amaranth> and he even let me sit in his chair in the living room :P
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
* Yagisan hates mail servers that eat .tar.bz2 attachments
<HedgeMage> :(
<HedgeMage> bbl TT needs me
* Yagisan ignoring my TT
<Yagisan> she doesn't need me to pick up her lego. That's her job
<Amaranth> TT?
<Yagisan> Amaranth: Terrible Two
<Yagisan> Amaranth: 2 year old child. Very difficult and stubbon
<Amaranth> yes, i know that :P
<Amaranth> but i dunno why they call it terrible two, they get worse as they get older
<Yagisan> Amaranth: you have kids yet ?
<bimberi> yep, our oldest is 9 and is still difficult and stubborn
<Amaranth> nope
<Yagisan> I see it as practice for "teenager"
<Amaranth> one of my older cousins does
<Amaranth> he has 3 year old twins
<Yagisan> ouch
<Yagisan> -ENOSLEEP
<Amaranth> they just keep saying "no!" and run around grabbing things whenever i see them
<Yagisan> no more kids for me. I need sleep (and some money)
<Yagisan> Amaranth: mine say no! in two languages
<Amaranth> haha
<Amaranth> that reminds me
<Amaranth> one of the primary schools here is going to teach spanish/english for the first 6 years of school
<Amaranth> if you know english you learn spanish, if you know spanish you learn english
<Amaranth> and by age 11 you know both equally
<Yagisan> my kids will hate me
<Yagisan> the get two difficult languages
<Yagisan> s/the/they
<Yagisan> with nothing in common
<Amaranth> what two?
<Yagisan> not even sentence order
<Amaranth> spanish and english are pretty different two
<Yagisan> English and Japanese ()
<Amaranth> different sentence order, different grammar rules, etc
<Amaranth> Yagisan: heh
<Amaranth> in japanese schools you learn english anyway, don't you?
<Yagisan> Amaranth: you do, but it's far from native
<Yagisan> Amaranth: and usually a Americanised version
<HedgeMage> Close, Yagisan... Toddling Tornado... he's 3 :)
<Yagisan> Amaranth: which is completely and utterly incorrect here
<Yagisan> HedgeMage: oh, I though he was 2
* Yagisan is getting Altzimers then
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> hiya cbx33 
<HedgeMage> may I drop you a quick pm?
<cbx33> sure
<HedgeMage> cbx33: see pm for a dumb question :)
<cbx33> bbl
<HedgeMage> ok ttyl :)
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<pygi> hey hey cbx33 
<pygi> how are you?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<cbx33> how are you?
<pygi> great I am :)
<cbx33> xcellent
<cbx33> pygi: Iwas talking to someone about gisomount
<jsgotangco> good morning cbx33
<cbx33> and they wanted to contribute
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco 
<pygi> cbx33, nice :)
<cbx33> which is great, they started breaking out functions to sepereate include files
<cbx33> but I don't really agree with some of the changes they made and wanted another opinion
<pygi> well, you are the upstream :)
<pygi> You decide what you want, really
<pygi> your branch is main one, and you cherrypick what you think is appropriate
<cbx33> yeh I know that :p
<cbx33> but I wanted to know from someone with more experience what I should do
<cbx33> I want to make it as good as possible
<pygi> what changes have they made if I might know?
<cbx33> well, it was all to do with moving functions to seperate files
<cbx33> which I am all for, though not knowing if it is necessary for gisomount
<pygi> If it's not big in scale, no need to separate it
<pygi> but the organisation is always nice
<cbx33> sure, and as I tried to explain it's not finished yet
<cbx33> not even polished
<pygi> :)
<highvoltage> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> how are you
<highvoltage> i'm good thanks cbx33, have had little sleep this week, but it's been great :)
<highvoltage> i hear you've been busy on gisomount and the rsync gui tool
<LaserJock> hehe, have you been eavesdropping highvoltage ? ;-)
<pygi> cbx33, o, rsync gui as well? :)
<cbx33> pygi: yes
<cbx33> highvoltage: yes I've been busy 
<pygi> cbx33, you are advancing fast :P
<cbx33> not so much this week...was my wifes 21st birthday on tues
<cbx33> I was off work yesterday as well
<cbx33> but I'm gooing to get right back to work from today :D
<cbx33> pygi: I'm trying
<cbx33> how else am I going to get snapped up by Canonical :p
<pygi> hehe :)
<cbx33> or anyone else for that matter
<cbx33> I want to leave this job
<cbx33> it is fast becoming unsatisfying
<pygi> ah, well :-/
<cbx33> and I need more money
<LaserJock> it can't be that unsatisfying as you seem to get to work on Edubuntu a lot at work ;-)
<cbx33> not being greedy
<cbx33> but my wife \nd I want to buy a house...
<cbx33> LaserJock: true
<cbx33> but I have other duties I'd rather not do
<LaserJock> my problem is that I could probably get a job at Canonical if I wanted to, but I do like Chemistry
<cbx33> you're lucky LaserJock 
* cbx33 would love the chance to work for Canonical
<LaserJock> bah, I don't think it would be all that hard for you, if Canonical keeps going well
<highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, at least your job gives you lot of time for other work :)
<cbx33> highvoltage: it's true
<highvoltage> but i can see how working for a school can be frustrating. i don't hink i would ever like to work for a school
<cbx33> but I'd like to dedicate 100% of my time to ubuntu instead of replacing keyboards that spoilt little ****'s qreck every 5 minutes
<cbx33> the vandalism is the most soul destroying
<highvoltage> yeah, we have that in tuxlabs too, but you learn to get over it :)
<cbx33> it's so frustrating
<cbx33> these kids have everything they want....
<cbx33> and yet they just can't seem to appreciate it
<cbx33> I'm fedup with helping at this level
<cbx33> I want to help on a larger scale
<cbx33> start program to role edubuntu out to all the shcools in the world :D
<highvoltage> that's quite normal (for people who have everything not to appreciate it)
<highvoltage> people who have very little tend to appreciate things more.
<cbx33> I knwo
<jsgotangco> just don
<jsgotangco> just don't expect too much or else you'll end up like someone
<pc22> how can i remote my work-ubuntu from home? its in a lan?
<bddebian> Hello
<highvoltage> hi bddebian 
<highvoltage> where are you?
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<bddebian> highvoltage: You mean what country?
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<cbx33> hi bddebian 
<cbx33> anyone tried gmailfs?
<cbx33> afternoon pygi 
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<lucasvo> anybody know why we have EOG, Gqview and GthumbImageviewer installed on edubuntu?
<lucasvo> They seem to do the same.] 
<sebastian> Hi
<sebastian> Edubuntu is rather nice 
<sebastian> so how are we going to get schools using that?
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> Well, some already are :)
<HedgeMage> hi Seveas 
<sebastian> uhmmmmmmmm I got Ubuntu,  KUbuntu,  and Edubuntu
<HedgeMage> sebastian: the Cookbook will be the ultimate beginner's guide, we've got some advocacy stuff getting put together :)
<sebastian> it seems to me that Edubuntu is just Ubuntu,  but with a differnet log in thing
<sebastian> and Gnome splash screen
<sebastian> and theme and icons and two rather nice backgrounds
<sebastian> the cookbook what?
<HedgeMage> it's a different selection of packages by default, and it has a fairly automagical LTSP setup in the installer
<sebastian> are there any other differences?  that I have not noticed?
<sebastian> well I installed edubuntu-desktop 
<sebastian> so I got a set up thing for it some where?
<HedgeMage> setup thing for???
<HedgeMage> once edubuntu-desktop is installed, it's there, it doesn't need extra setting up
<Seveas> hi
<sebastian> what did you mean by automagical LTSP set up?
<sebastian> LTSP means?
<sebastian> Long term supopurt?
<HedgeMage> sory
<HedgeMage> LTSP is the Linux thin client project
<sebastian> which does?
<HedgeMage> it reduces the hardware you need: set up one good server with lots of RAM and let a bunch of thin client (computers with almost no software on them) connect to the server... everything runs on the server
<HedgeMage> the thin clients have very low requirements
<sebastian> Hedgehog you work for Ubuntu?
<pygi> Hedgehog????
<pygi> HedgeMage, hey :)
<sebastian> so edubuntu is easy for a school to set up on a network?
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<HedgeMage> sebastian: nope, I'm just a volunteer
<HedgeMage> sebastian: yep :)
<sebastian> woudl be great if the schools around here would use Edubuntu :)  
<HedgeMage> where's "here" for you?
<sebastian> uhmmmmm near Bristol in England
<sebastian> back at the time I think my primary school was rather good for computing
<LaserJock> there are lots of English schools using Edubuntu I think
<sebastian> ,but now well
<sebastian> I expect it's just a Microsoft school
<sebastian> like most places are Micrsooft place
<sebastian> altough at the tmie when I was there yes they started using Microsoft,  but I am talking about well the early 90's so
<sebastian> I guess that was ok then
<sebastian> as for my secondary school well the admins are morons I think 
<sebastian> as for college well
<sebastian> the admins are morons for sure
<sebastian> in fact I even went there before about trying to get them to install Firefox so on.  and well the guy was like
<sebastian> well we don't care,  because we get paid to remove spyware
<sebastian> that's the kind of thing he said
<sebastian> which I think is discraceful
<HedgeMage> :(
<sebastian> loads of these network admins don't do their jobs properly at all hummmmmm
<lucasvo> sebastian: at our school they say: The gov. pays us all the Hardware we need, Why switch to a thinclient environnment?
<sebastian> Ubuntu is very good
<sebastian> ,but
<sebastian> people are so beeping ignorant
<sebastian> hence why they don't use it
<sebastian> and the more schools and companies so on using  open source the better :)
<sebastian> expesially schools
<sebastian> more hope with the younger generation I think
<sebastian> ,because if they like it.  they will use at home
<sebastian> where as the older generation use Microsoft,  because that's what they are used to and have used for years
<sebastian> where is your school lucasvo and how old are you?
<lucasvo> sebastian: in zurich
<lucasvo> sebastian: www.hopro.ch
<lucasvo> I am 16 years old
<sebastian> what country is that
<sebastian> some wehre in Europe
<HedgeMage> hiya jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> good evening HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: got my laptop back, I'm off of hubby's windoze box, and I got my CoC sig sorted :)
<jsgotangco> oh nice
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: are you able to admit me to edubuntu-members now since I was voted in last meeting?
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
<jsgotangco> okay just confirmed with oli
<HedgeMage> cool, I emailed him but I know he's busy in Paris
<jsgotangco> he's just at my back
<lucasvo> sebastian: switzerland :P
<jsgotangco> busy? he's been like smoking for the rest of the sprint!
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco hides from ogra
<HedgeMage> rofl
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: done
* jsgotangco wonders where highvoltage and LaserJock went
<HedgeMage> I have no clue
<HedgeMage> and thanks, btw
<HedgeMage> pontifex: connection problems?
<DaSkreech> Does Edubuntu dapper still rely on gstreamer0.8?
<crimsun> no, it uses the ubuntu base that migrated to gstreamer0.10
<DaSkreech> I just did an update to dapper and after reboot the first thing it tries to update is gstreamer0.8
<DaSkreech> How can I get it to stop doing that?
<popey> ooer
<popey> HedgeMage: popey == pontifex
<popey> strange he pung out and i didn't
<HedgeMage> ah :)
<DaSkreech> What version of Ubuntu-standard and ubuntu-minimal ship with dapper?
<DaSkreech> And is it erribly worrying if Ubuntu-base and ubuntu-minimal are not installed?
<DaSkreech> HedgeMage: Stalker :)
<HedgeMage> DaSkreech: I am everywhere!
<HedgeMage> LOL
<DaSkreech> Hmm Printers have been removed from the system menu?
<HedgeMage> DaSkreech: Sysem --> Administration --> Printing
<DaSkreech> HedgeMage: Doesn't exist on my system
<DaSkreech> It did before the updae
<DaSkreech> update
<DaSkreech> where does apt keep the list of files that it grabs
<DaSkreech> when you press reload?
<Amaranth> /var/cache/apt
<DaSkreech> Amaranth: not the debs
<DaSkreech> Oh wait that's cache/apt/archive
<DaSkreech> thanks :)
<DaSkreech> Amaranth: Can I just delete pkgcache.bin and apt will recreate it?
<Amaranth> i dunno
* DaSkreech renames
<DaSkreech> Nope still doing it
<popey> have you installed gstreamer 0.10?
<DaSkreech> popey: Yeah
<DaSkreech> It's rhythmbox apparently
<cbx33> gooooood evenin all
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<juliux> wb cbx33 
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<juliux> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> juliux: hey long time no see
<juliux> jsgotangco, yes
<juliux> jsgotangco, how are you?
<jsgotangco> juliux: well im in paris with the rest of the edubuntu people for the developer summit
<juliux> jsgotangco, greetings to all
* juliux is in london :-(
<jsgotangco> what's keeping you busy?
<juliux> that i am not in paris 
<juliux> and that i have to work with windows
<jsgotangco> i dunno where they are at the moment, we're in the middle of nowhere in paris and the nearest village grocery closes at 6pm
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> jsgotangco, hm the eurostar is to expansive for me to come on the weekend to paris
<jsgotangco> well tomorrow is the last day
<juliux> oh 
<juliux> ok tomorrow i have to work
<jsgotangco> if you get the chance, try to come if not no worries
<popey> is schooltool discussed here?
<rodarvus> popey, Edubuntu is discussed here, but SchoolTool people frequent this channel
<juliux> jsgotangco, no chance i have to test the windows install image tomorrow
<jsgotangco> no worries there will always be one more chance in the future
<cbx33> popey, i think so
<cbx33> what's the prob
<RobinShepheard> hiya everybody
<Gadi> So, does anyone have an (edu)buntu server going with RAID5, an adaptec 2005S RAID controller, and dapper?
<Gadi> kernel seems to like to panic on any newer version than hoary :(
<Gadi> and, presumably the dpt_i2o bug was fixed in the latest kernel....
<ogra> Gadi, try asking fabbione in #ubuntu-devel, he is in the server team
<Gadi> ogra: thx, I figured you'd know the right people, but I thought it better to post here than #ltsp as it is less off topic
<Gadi> ;)
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> heh
#edubuntu 2006-06-23
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> how come I miss all the fun people?
<crimsun> oh, so I'm not fun? I get it...
<crimsun> =] 
<th1a> popey: Do you have a SchoolTool question?
<HedgeMage> crimsun: you weren't active when I peeked :P
* HedgeMage wonders if anyone's awake in here
<bimberi> hi HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<bimberi> 15:00 here, so should be awake :)
<bimberi> Our football team (Socceroos) made it to the 2nd round of the World Cup
<bimberi> \o/
<bimberi> but not much that's ontopic ;)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> it is in ##world-cup-2006 IIRC
<HedgeMage> :)
* bimberi /j's
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> wb
<HedgeMage> connecton problems?
<bimberi_> sortof, this (dialup) isp resets connections after 6 hours - got to work about 9:00 today
<HedgeMage> ahh
<bimberi_> HedgeMage: thanks for the ##world-cup-2006 tip, i might call in there during our next game, although it's at 12:30am Tuesday morning here :/
<HedgeMage> heh
<cbx33> Boo !
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hiya cbx33 !
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: are you busy?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what's being discussed there?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we're not discussing anything at the moment
<highvoltage> i'm just fleshing out the gdm-guest-login wiki page
<jsgotangco> lol nice
<highvoltage> we're going to discuss it at 11, if you'd like to join us
<jsgotangco> probably we're just discussing g-a-i here at the moment trying out some new glade mockups
<highvoltage> great :)
<Amaranth> i thought the summit was over?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> this is the last day
<spacey> any idea where can i find stats about shipped breezy cd's and downloads?
<spacey> i'm sure it came up somewhere several times
<Amaranth> ProgrammingError: SQLite objects created in a thread can only be used in that same thread.The object was created in thread id -1210181408 and this is thread id -1222685776
* Amaranth stabs
<Amaranth> ffs, this is going to be a PITA
<Amaranth> interesting
<Amaranth> it looks like this will work if i have a newer sqlite
<Amaranth> ah, forking helps, forget threads
* Amaranth is blocking/unblocking domains remotely using dbus
<Amaranth> i think i'll call that good for now
<xwind_> I noticed that there are 2 dhcpd.conf, one in /etc/dhcp3 and another in /etc/ltsp. I am curious on what the dhcp3-server is using. Somebody explain pls.
<lucasvo> Amaranth: what is dbus?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: IPC mechanism
<lucasvo> Amaranth: you are writing a new UI for a proxy server?
<Amaranth> i'm creating a proxy server and writing a UI for it
<lucasvo> Amaranth: didn't you use willow?
<Amaranth> nope, willow was junk
<lucasvo> oh
<Amaranth> ugly code and legal problems
<kbrooks> hey cbx33
<Amaranth> lucasvo: in a month i've gotten a working proxy server (with domain and bayesian filtering) and the dbus interface for the UI to use :)
<lucasvo> Amaranth: what's the name of your project?
<Amaranth> WillowNG
<cbx33> Amaranth: well done
<kbrooks> heh
<kbrooks> 1 month :-)
<kbrooks> that's python :-)
<cbx33> kbrooks: ping
<xwind_> hellowrz! need some help on network-install. I can pxe boot but at the later part of the install, dhcp netcard auto-configuration fails. Why?
<lucasvo> xwind_: do you have a working dhcp server?
<xwind_> i think so, the fact the i can pxe boot and do the early stage of the install.
<lucasvo> oh. you mean in the install.
<xwind_> yes, i am trying to do a network install using a xubuntu server on my LAN.
<xwind_> dhcp works because the workstation boots the ubuntu-installer through the network card via PXE.
<xwind_> however, at the install stage when the network card is being auto-configured, it fails.
<xwind_> do u know why there are two dhcpd.conf? One is in /etc/dhcp3 and the other is in /etc/ltsp. Which one is being used by the server?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: stop chating, get back to work ;-)
<jsgotangco> meh
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you don't have any specs to work on?
<jsgotangco> we're done
<jsgotangco> i could alwayd finish up the others at home
<LaserJock> look at mine then ;-)
<Gadi> hey, can someone here tell me how to disable the thin client user's ability to hibernate the server?
<HedgeMage> Gadi: hrm, there was a mailing list discussion on that not long ago
<HedgeMage> Gadi: if you search the archives, you should be able to find it
<HedgeMage> (I think it was the edubuntu-devel list, no the -user list)
<Gadi> thx
<HedgeMage> np
<Gadi> dont sppose you have a quick link to the archives handy? :)
<HedgeMage> ummm, nope, but if you go to lists.ubuntu.com there are links to all the lists in alphabetical order
<HedgeMage> edubuntu-devel is the one you want
<Gadi> thx++
<Gadi> :(  only question - no answers
<Gadi> whatever happened to the good ole days, when you could easily break things that work :)
<duck-> perhaps someone here would know, are there any instructions anywhere for customizing the ubuntu installation CD for OEM, including but not limited to the addition of new packages?
<HedgeMage> Hrm, someone in #ubuntu might know.
<duck-> no replies thus far, and comments often get lost.  I know there are fewer average users in here and many involved with the creation of the edubuntu installation CD, thus why I asked here
<HedgeMage> hmm
<HedgeMage> ogra would know
<duck-> ?
<HedgeMage> but this is a bad week to ask, most of our folks are in Paris right now at the summit
<duck-> oh, ouch
<HedgeMage> ogra is our lead developing guru
<duck-> i see
<HedgeMage> with the big developer summit on right now, the IRC presence is a little sparse
<HedgeMage> it'll pick up next week though
<duck-> i was just rather hoping for someone to point me to some docs on it...hmm.... ok, i'll ask next week then
<HedgeMage> sorry I didn't know more :(
<duck-> oh, you've been very helpful though, thanks :)
<HedgeMage> np :)
<Gadi> just to let you guys know, if you're interested - I tracked down a hack to disable the hibernation:  gnome-poer-manager calls a script in:  /usr/share/hal/scripts/  - set it to chmod -x and you're done
<duck-> ouch, certainly is a hack
<Gadi> yup
<Gadi> wish there was a better way
<HedgeMage> that's a good hack to know.  Hopefully there will be a "real" answer soon
<duck-> HedgeMage, here is what it says on ubuntu's site about customizations, but not how to contact: "When a situation arises where many users wish to customize their systems in a certain way, a representative should contact the development team to discuss a solution."
<duck-> ick
<duck-> HedgeMage, here is what it says on ubuntu's site about customizations, but not how to contact: "When a situation arises where many users wish to customize their systems in a certain way, a representative should contact the development team to discuss a solution."
<Gadi> well, do any of you guys know an easy way to set global gconf defaults?
<HedgeMage> duck-: the devel mailing list is probably your best bed.
<HedgeMage> s/bed/bet
<duck-> ok, thanks
<Gadi> like a global gconf-editor?
<duck-> Gadi, running it as root, possibly?  Not sure
<Gadi> dont think so
<duck-> ok
<Gadi> cause, I know there's a gconf key to disable hibernate properly in gnome
<Gadi> but I'm no whiz at the gconftool stuff
<Gadi> duck-: just checked and slapped head
<Gadi> you were right
<duck-> hehehe
<Gadi> running sudo gconf-editor enables a few options in the File menu
<Gadi> to edit globals
<Gadi> molto bene - muchas gracias
<duck-> :)
<EmxBA> hi everyone
<HedgeMage> hi EmxBA :)
<HedgeMage> we're planning to have a Cookbook meeting sometime the week of July 3-7 is any particular day good or bad for you?
<HedgeMage> (won't do the 4th as that is a holiday here)
<lucasvo> yeah, switzerand won!
<lucasvo> we're in 1/8 finals
<HedgeMage> lol
#edubuntu 2006-06-24
<juliux> lucasvo, lol
<lecaros> hi guys
<lecaros> arkan0x
<arkan0x> hi lecaros !
<arkan0x> how are you ?
<lecaros> fine, you?
<lecaros> I recieved an email from mhz, asking for transportation. But i still waiting his answer
* HedgeMage peeks in
<mhz_aseo> lecaros: 
<HedgeMage> hi mhz :)
<mhz> HedgeMage: hi there
<mhz> how's your "kid"?
* mhz cant remember HedgeMage's kid nickname
<mhz> lecaros: I have just answered your email
<lecaros> hi
<mhz> and we can always chat in spanish in #edubuntu-es ;D
<lecaros> ok, i'll read it
<lecaros> ok
<HedgeMage> TT :D
<clivesay> I can't get khangman to run on the live cd. Does anyone know if this has been reported?
<Feli1> Hello
<Feli1> I have a little sound problem, I wonder if anybody can help?
<Feli1> Hi, is anybody around?
<Feli1> I was hoping to get some help with a sound problem
<dennda> hi. do you know mastereye for windows? is there anything similar to this for edubuntu? (locking of screens, transferring teachers display to pupils monitor?)
<cbx33> afternoon all
<HedgeMage> hiya cbx33 
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<cbx33> i mean HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> shoot, I was thinking about you last night... I wanted to ask you something.  Unfortunately, I no longer remember what it was.
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 is on a yucky windows machine at the moment
<cbx33> brb
<HedgeMage> wb
<ThatsMe> Hi all.
<ThatsMe> I have a problem with my sound card. Can anyone help me, please?
<ThatsMe> I'm sick of IRC. Visit  all these chatrooms any nobody even responds. :-(
<paolob> Hi guys! I'm organizing my pc's backups with backuppc, running on a ubuntu server. I configured various ubuntu clients and one edubuntu to be backuped by backuppc. However, all is ok with the ubuntu clients, but the backup doesn't work with the edubuntu one. Backuppc is configured to use the rsync method, and it tells me it is backing up the edubtu server, but actually the backup is not progressing. Is it possible that edubuntu is different
<paolob>  from ubuntu in some rsync respect? thank you
<HedgeMage> hi paolob 
<paolob> hi HedgeMage 
<paolob> HedgeMage, did you see the question I put?
<HedgeMage> I'm reading it now
<HedgeMage> it sounds like it's outside my area of expertise, though.  I bet ogra would know the answer.  You might want to try the mailing list, as you don't have to keep the same hours as everyone to get an answer :)
<paolob> HedgeMage, ok, thnx
#edubuntu 2006-06-25
<kbrooks> cbx33: pete :P
<HedgeMage> hi kbrooks 
<jcar> ahoy!
<HedgeMage> hi
<jcar> hey HedgeMage :)
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<jcar> just got home a short while ago. it's good to be back.
<HedgeMage> :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<linux_user400354> kturtle is awesome
* mode/#edubuntu [-s]  by ChanServ
<Flashq009> hello
<Flashq009> anyone awake in here?
<Flashq009> has anyone here have good experience with edbuntu?
<Flashq009> edubuntu
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<xbl> good day!!
<HedgeMage> hi there :)
<xbl> have just intalled edubuntu 6.06
<HedgeMage> cool :)
<xbl> just want to ask, why can't the video players output sound?
<HedgeMage> hmmm... which player(s) and what type of sound file?
<HedgeMage> I haven't had that problem
<lucasvo> xbl: you mean on a client?
<xbl> tried totem(totally it can't play the vcd),kaffeine,Gxine(last two has no sound output...)
<xbl> lucasvo: I now at home and using a standalone pc..
<lucasvo> xbl: do you hear the systemsounds?
<xbl> lucasvo: yes sir...
<lucasvo> xbl: can you play an ogg file in any of these players ?
<xbl> lucasvo: yes sir...
<xbl> lucasvo: is this a codec problem?
<lucasvo> xbl: does it work with other vcd files?
<lucasvo> do you know how the vcd file was encoded?
<xbl> lucasvo: sir its not a file... its actually vcd....
<lucasvo> vcd ?
<lucasvo> a videocard?
<xbl> lucasvo: no, a VideCD
<xbl> lucasvo: no, a VideoCD
<lucasvo> xbl: maybe the sound is encoded in mp3 which means you have to install mp3 codecs
<lucasvo> !restrictedformats
<ubotu> For lots of multimedia issues this page has the useful information you want: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  see also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - Please use free formats: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<xbl> also music players can't play mp3 files...
<xbl> except for the mpg321 player...
<lucasvo> xbl: in that case, the url above will help you
<lucasvo> (the one from ubotu)
<xbl> ahh ok...
<xbl> sir another question? can I use mpg321 codec to other players ?
<lucasvo> I don't know
<lucasvo> try asking in #ubuntu
<xbl_> sorry, got disconnected...
<lucasvo> 10:51 < xbl> sir another question? can I use mpg321 codec to other players ?
<lucasvo> 10:51 < lucasvo> I don't know
<lucasvo> 10:51 < lucasvo> try asking in #ubuntu 
<xbl_> thanks po...
<xbl_> another is about scribus on edubuntu... can't type letters, I can only type numbers on the text frame....
<HedgeMage> sorry folks, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard here.
<HedgeMage> be back tomorrow
<pips1> hi ogra 
<ogra> hey
<pips1> did you have a good time in paris?
<ogra> busy
<pips1> yeah, I would have thought so :-)
<pips1> when did you get back? did you have time to recover a bit yet?
<ogra> and we werent in paris ... it was an airport hotel 30km away from paris and ~10km away from the ariport in the middle of nowhere 
<pips1> I just learned about that 5 mins ago on planet...
<pips1> doesn't sound very nice at all...
<jsgotangco> hello
<ogra> heya
<jsgotangco> ogra!
<jsgotangco> are you back home?
<ogra> back in my old house, just waiting for some people to look at it and than i'll head for my new house ... another 300km ...
<jsgotangco> heh i just arrived a few hours ago, i almost missed my flight at schiphol because the cdg flight was delayed
<jsgotangco> i ran
<ogra> but you made it :)
<jsgotangco> 16 hours heh
<ogra> it took me way more that the estimated 4h as well ... but thats because i drove sladen through half of belgium :)
<jsgotangco> lol
* jsgotangco wished he could stay longer
<jsgotangco> but ive had enough of 16 train rides
<ogra> yeah
* highvoltage just woke up
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: are you back home?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah i just had dinner i had a very long flight
<jsgotangco> the first thing i did was eat real food
<highvoltage> heh. my father just asked me what i want to eat tonight.
<highvoltage> last night i landed at about 21:30, then went to a 21st and only got home about 1am
<jsgotangco> i had to run through schiphol to catch my plane home, my air france flight was badly delayed for almost an hour
<jsgotangco> do you have pictures posted?
<highvoltage> when i woke up just now i thought it must be something like 9am. i got a bit of a shock when i saw it was 13:30 :)
<jsgotangco> yeah same here 
<highvoltage> not yet. i ran out of space on my web server :(
<highvoltage> but i'm going to delete some older photos and other junk
<jsgotangco> i slept for a few hours before having dinner
<highvoltage> and resize the pictures. people can always contact me if they want bigger ones.
<jsgotangco> i kept on taking pictures i forgot that i dont have pictures of myself
<highvoltage> i think i have a bunch of pictures of you. rodrigo and Laser_away and I took a lot of pictures of each other, so that we can swap.
<highvoltage> our wifes/girlfriends/mothers, etc won't forgive us if we return without pictures of ourselves in paris :)
<jsgotangco> heh i have a picture of myself at the eiffel that's proof
<highvoltage> cool. that's more or less the most important proof that you'll need :)
* jsgotangco wonders what happened to Jordan
* highvoltage attempts to do some maths to figure out when jordan is supposed to get home
<highvoltage> hmmm.. well, i think he should be home by now. perhaps he's sleeping.
<jsgotangco> hopefully paris didn't leave a bad taste in him
<highvoltage> i think it might have hey :/
<highvoltage> but i'm sure he'll recover from it.
<paolob-parroquia> Hi ogra!
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, is edubuntu different from ubuntu regarding rsync? I have a backuppc server that can't backup from a edubuntu client, while it backs up from the ubuntu one.
<jsgotangco> good night
<jsgotangco> need to sleep some more
<highvoltage> hey HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> do you know how I can check who signed my pgp key?
<HedgeMage> gpg --list-sigs keyid
<highvoltage> thanks :)
<HedgeMage> np
<bddebian> Hello
<highvoltage> hello :)
<mhz> highvoltage: hey!
* mhz BRB
<mhz> highvoltage: why is -es with no Topic?
<highvoltage> mhz: no idea. i thought you would know if anyone would :)
<mhz> highvoltage: hehehe
<mhz> I thought you would know :D
<highvoltage> i'm not even sure if that channel is registered, is it?
<mhz> yup
<highvoltage> mhz: how did FET go?
<mhz> it just finished 2 hurgs ago, for me
<mhz> hours
<mhz> I am in th process of understanding and analizing
<mhz> it went well because some objectives were met
<mhz> bad because i was supposed to be part of a team
<mhz> but the "official team" was not really present
<mhz> obviously, the unofficial team (some volunteers) did a great job
<highvoltage> how many people attended?
<highvoltage> nice, it's great to have good volunteer participation.
<mhz> i have not made calculations yet, but I'd say about 90 people
<mhz> how did paris go?
<highvoltage> who made up most of those people, educators, doe? 'normal people'?
<highvoltage> it went well, i'm trying to blog about it, but don't know where to start :)
<mhz> people trying to understand how FLOSS can be a biz and educators
<highvoltage> any people from the departments of education?
<mhz> yup
<highvoltage> how did the sponsors feel, will FET 2007 happen?
<mhz> and from a11y org.
<mhz> yup, afaik.
<mhz> but there are some serious things I have to decide
<mhz> because as you all know, FET has been my idea for quite sometime
<mhz> but, one of the sponsors decided to register the name
<mhz> obviously, withour even letting me know about it
<highvoltage> geez
<mhz> there have been many details of such kind
<mhz> so, even if 07 happens... so far, I am very frustrated
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<mhz> but well, yeah... /me shighs too
<Didius> Hi
<mhz> highvoltage: BTW, joselecaros has been one of the few who was ALWAYS 100% helping
<Didius> Question: I've started making a physics programm, in Java. I would like it to become open source when it's done.
<Didius> 1) is Java a good language for open-source projects
<Didius> 2) should I distribute it at edubuntu.org?
<mhz> Didius: well,
<mhz> java is always interesting
<Didius> ok that's good
<mhz> however
<mhz> if i were you
<mhz> I'd ask in #ubuntu-dev
<Didius> ok, I will, thnx
<mhz> no problem,
<mhz> Didius: also, ogra highvoltage are programmers and have worked in dev areas
<mhz> they may be able to answer the question
<Didius> another question, Several months ago i asked if there was any programm like this for edubuntu/ubuntu, http://www.crossteccorp.com/netopschool/
<Didius> Then i was told there was something like that in development. Is it done already? or still being developped?
* mhz checks url
<mhz> hmm, Didius 
<Didius> project unknow? :D
<mhz> very cool 
<mhz> afaik, ogra is/was working on something like that
<Didius> no idea?
<Didius> ah
<Didius> are they still or is it abandoned?
<mhz> i dont think they'd abandon such and ide
<mhz> a
<mhz> it is just that I dont know the current status
<Didius> ok, no problem
<Didius> thnx for the help.
<Didius> sweet dreams, bye
#edubuntu 2007-06-18
<eps_> I'm wondering why there is no clear statement of what edubuntu is on the website (or one that I can find easily)
<eps_> "What are the differences between Ubuntu and Edubuntu?
<eps_> Take the tour of Edubuntu. There are many school-related applications installed by default, including TuxPaint, TuxMath, and TuxTyping, among others."
<eps_> ^^ that's the only comment at all I can find (off the main page, in the faq)
<eps_> just thinking that if people don't know what the point of the distro is they may consider another one; plus clear descriptions make explaining it to people you're giving it to easier.
<LaserJock> well, the website will be undergoing a lot of changes soon
<LaserJock> we're going to do a lot better now
<LaserJock> s/now/in the future/
<ctkroeker> Any ideas for Voip on LTSP
<ctkroeker> anyone get Skype to work on a edubuntu thin client?
<t94xr_> install skype on the server
<ctkroeker> I already did, when I load skype on a thin client, it loads, logs in, but when I make a call, it says [no sound device]  although sound output works on mp3s
<t94xr_> i have no clue then
<ctkroeker> same goes for ekiga, wengo, etc. I found a guide on a novell dev site, but it basically just implements pulse audio which supposedly is in Feisty...
<ctkroeker> anyone?
<pygi> !weekend
<ubotu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<pygi> and it's 3:30Am
<ctkroeker> not here
<ctkroeker> 9:30
<ctkroeker> pm
<RichEd> hi ogra & pygi
<ogra> hey
<RichEd> ogra: any luck on finding a ubuntu moodle hosting provider ?
<pygi> hey RichEd
<pygi> RichEd, what will you host?
<RichEd> moodle for a external project
<ogra> RichEd, http://www.123-reg.co.uk/dedicated-server-hosting/?GCID=S13274x083&keyword=ubuntu looks best i think
<RichEd> i'll check it out ... thanks
<RichEd> brb ... reboot
<stgraber> RichEd: I'm currently at a 20/month dedicated hoster which provides Ubuntu Dapper/Edgy/Feisty OS
<stgraber> RichEd: Only problem is the small amount of ram (256MB) but that will be enough for most website I think
<ogra> stgraber, i need something to run gutsy on easily ... is it upgradeable ?
<stgraber> yes, it's
<ogra> (i mean do you have full HW cotrol over the machine i.e. kernel upgrades etc ...)
<ogra> cool
<stgraber> you can netboot it on their rescue OS in case you've a broken system
<stgraber> then fix everything you want on the HD and reboot
<ogra> ah, k, thats what we're looking for
<ogra> i only have experience with real housing of my own HW and vservers ...
<ogra> vservers are no option here indeed
<stgraber> ogra: As I can see the order form is in French, but the admin interface is multi-lingual (the one where you can change the reverse, reboot it, set netboot ...) and they ask for the language during the order ...
<ogra> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=475709
<ogra> *giggle*
<stgraber> about the upgrade, I just had a small problem while upgrading mine from Edgy to Feisty (Feisty wasn't proposed) was that they seem to install an image on the server which was done for one with S-ATA drives but mine was using IDE, then grub didn't install correctly and I had to fix /boot/grub/menu.lst and /boot/grub/device.map
<stgraber> ogra: my hoster is www.kimsufi.net (french website) but it's part of www.ovh.com (www.ovh.de for German version) (even if that cheap server is only available on kimsufi.net the admin UI is on www.ovh.com)
<RichEd> stgraber: that looks better than the UK price ... ogra does it provide all of what we need ?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> we can take that as well
<RichEd> 20 Euro is better than 39 GBP :)
<ogra> indeed
<stgraber> you can pay for it monthly if you want, there aren't a reduce if you take it for longer and then can easily try it for a month to see if it does what you want
<ogra> its a matter of anestits and his requirements :)
<ogra> if we can take a french ne thats fine then
<ogra> *one
<RichEd> well his argument was UK unless we can show cheaper ... so we can print both price pages to justify our choice
<ogra> right
<stgraber> ogra: And the good point with the french hosters is that you usually don't have quota, so no risk to have to pay extra fees depending on your bandwidth usage
<stgraber> (which is the problem with some servers I manage in Germany)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i have an additioal cheap vserver with no limits for that i serve the bigger stuff from
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: Ping!
<pygi> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning pygi
<etank> does the edubuntu alternate cd have an option on it for OEM installs?
<sbalneav> etank: Preseeding you mean?  I think so...
<etank> sbalneav: the ubuntu alt cd has an option for OEM installs
<sbalneav> etank: Since the Edubuntu alt cd's based off the Ubuntu alt cd, then it should be the case.
<etank> that is what i thought too
<remco> someone available?
<remco> Someone available?
<remco> Hello?
<LaserJock> remco: if you have a question please ask it :-)
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
#edubuntu 2007-06-19
<john_s> hello all-- any SAMBA gurus's on this list perchance
<john_s> ?
<sbalneav> I know one or two things about samba
<sbalneav> what do you need?
<john_s> I need to use ldap to store my samba/winbind backend
<john_s> and I don't know how to migrate my accounts
<sbalneav> Ah, what you'r looking for is moquists and trasks tool
<john_s> Perhaps.
<john_s> I've looked at it
<john_s> but i don't think its a migration tool
<john_s> I think its a "set up a bdc/pdc" type of thing
<john_s> Does it do migration?
<sbalneav> I thought so.
<john_s> hm
<john_s> Ok, I have an email into david.
<sbalneav> Migrating from /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow?
<john_s> Well no, this would be like winbindsecrets.tdb and sam.tdb
<john_s> I believe
<sbalneav> ah, so migrating from windows.
<sbalneav> I'd be lost there.
<john_s> well, yes and no
<john_s> When you use winbind to use Active Directory for authentication you get these little databases
<john_s> like /var/cache/samba/winbindd_cache.tdb
<john_s> and that is good. Now if you want to scale it to more than one server you need to make it a centralized resource
<john_s> Samba docs say to use LDAP generally
<sbalneav> Well, I'd expect there'd be some tool to extract info from the .tdb
<john_s> Yeah, me to. That's sort of my question.
<john_s> :-)
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> If anyone, Trask would know.
<sbalneav> I'm sure he'll steer you right.
<john_s> Ok, good. Well hopefully he'll shoot me an email.
<sbalneav> He will, he's a great guy.
<john_s> I appreciate your responses
<sbalneav> Look for him here and on #ltsp
<john_s> hurray!
<sbalneav> he sometimes idles.
<john_s> will do.
<john_s> Thanks again. bye
<sbalneav> bye
<etank> is there an edubuntu-lite?
<Burgundavia> there is a plan to create an xfce desktop, but nothing has come yet
<etank> cool
<sbalneav> etank: You could create your own.
<sbalneav> Start with xubuntu
<etank> i have 60 machines that i want to install edubuntu on and then donate to needy children
<sbalneav> then just add the edu apps
<etank> my plan right now is to use an alternate cd to do an oem install and then create a ghost image to push to the other machines
<etank> but the machines are a little old
<etank> 500 MHZ, 512 MB Ram, 20 GB HDD
<Burgundavia> etank: 500mhz is plenty powerful enough for a thin client
<etank> but these are going to be give to individual families
<etank> thin client wont work
<etank> and i will have no way of knowing if the new owner will have access to the internet so i have to get all of the apps installed on there before giving them away
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> I used to use GNOME on 500 mhz
<sbalneav> I used to use a ZX-81 at 1 mhz. :)
<sbalneav> And before that, a real VT100 terminal.
<sbalneav> From DEC :)
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I feel young
<sbalneav> I'
<sbalneav> I'm 39 today!
<sbalneav> :)
<etank> happy birthday :)
<Burgundavia> my first computer was a 100 mhz and the first computer I used was a 8086 of my fathers
<sbalneav> Nothing like sitting on your birthday coding the next release :)
<sbalneav> Wife's not feeling well, so I had to cook my own birthday dinner LOL
<sbalneav> Got just what I wanted: Big juicy steak, baguette with oven roasted garlic butter, and corn on the cob.
<sbalneav> Yum!
<Burgundavia> congrats
<sbalneav> If I fix this bug, I will officially celebrate by going to the beer vendor, and grabbing some cold ones :)
* sbalneav crosses fingers
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: hi grandpa
<sbalneav> Hey sonny
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: i used to gnome on a P166 and it was butt-ugly
<sbalneav> Speak louder, my ear-trumpet's blocked :)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: yep
<jsgotangco> Mandrake Linux was probably light-years ahead of the pack in terms of pretty distro packaging
<Burgundavia> wow, RH8 was not
<jsgotangco> breakfast brb
<sbalneav> Ooooohh
<sbalneav> looking goood
* sbalneav crosses fingers for the 5th time since he said it last
<LaserJock> sbalneav: happy birthday
<sbalneav> \o/ works
<sbalneav> Thanks, LaserJock
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: the Classroom Server Addon CD has XFCE4
<trisha> anyone here knows how to activate fvwm95 x -window?
<jsgotangco> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco!
<john_> For candidate modem in PCI bus:  03:09.0
<john_>    Class 0780: 14f1:2702 Communication controller: Conexant Unknown device 2702
<john_>       Primary PCI_id  14f1:2702
<john_>  Support type needed or chipset:	hsfmodem
<john_> sorry - first time using this
<john_> but i do need help getting this internal modem to work - is 56k dial up
<moquist> sbalneav: will there be a config option to set the ldm greeter in your implementation? I've been talking with gadi, and we think it would be a good idea.
<sbalneav> Well, lets see.
<sbalneav> I'm setting display options
<sbalneav> sound options
<sbalneav> localdev options
<sbalneav> ...
<sbalneav> Nope, sorry, run out of room in the code.
<sbalneav> The only greeter will be in black and white.
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> On my list :)
<sbalneav> ogra wanted a QT greeter for K environs, GTK for gnome, and a "low resource" one if we have time.
<sbalneav> So, yeah, customizable greeter program's a go.
<sbalneav> Just haven't done it yet.  Spent the last two or 3 days hunting down a nasty bug with pty's
<sbalneav> john_: That a winmodem?
<trisha> anyone here knows how to activate fvwm95 x -window?
<sbalneav> Sure, just set yourself up a .xsession file.
<sbalneav> in your home dir.
<sbalneav> Have you installed fvwm95 yet>
<sbalneav> ?
<trisha> sbalneav: yah
<trisha> sbalneav: but im still using ubuntu 7.04 as my distro
<sbalneav> A quick bit of googling turned this up
<sbalneav> http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~fvwm/manual/fvwm95.xsession
<sbalneav> save what in your home dir as .xsession
<sbalneav> mode 755
<sbalneav> Hmm
<sbalneav> it ma
<trisha> sbalneav: i dont get it
<sbalneav> it may actually provide a session.
<sbalneav> hold on, lemme look
<trisha> sbalneav: you mean i have to copy paste the page and save it at home dir.
<sbalneav> Doesn't look like there's a package for it.
<sbalneav> How did you install fvwm95?
<trisha> using synaptic
<sbalneav> Hmm, I'm running gutsy here, and I don't see it.
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> When you go to log in, does it show up in the sessions chooser?
<trisha> yah
<sbalneav> on the login screen?
<trisha> yah
<sbalneav> Oh, ok, then just select it.
<sbalneav> and log in
<trisha> what?
<sbalneav> Just select that as your session, and log in
<trisha> what should i select?
<sbalneav> You said it showed up in the sessions chooser when you logged in.
<sbalneav> So select fvwm95
<trisha> ok
<trisha> i will log ogg
<trisha> off
<trisha> how do i create shortcut on my desktop running fvwm?
<trisha> how do i create shortcut on my desktop running fvwm?
<LaserJock> trisha: you really should use google or something, we don't know how to do everything in fvwm
<LaserJock> trisha: I believe you need another application, like rox, that puts icons on the desktop
<sbalneav> trisha: fvwm95 is SO old, you may have a few troubles getting support for modern stuff.
<sbalneav> Any reason why you want to use it?
<trisha> it saves memory
<sbalneav> How much memory do you have in this machine?
<trisha> im running ubuntu distro 7.04 i only have 256mb and i still wanna use it in other application
<crimsun> I'm unsure whether he's referring to fvwm 2.[45]  or the older fvwm95.
<sbalneav> Oh, 256 megs? You've got lots to run Gnome
<trisha> according to feedback it is still the best x-window
<sbalneav> Which, fvwm95?
<trisha> fvwm
<sbalneav> Who are you getting this feedback from? :)
<trisha> fvwm-crystal
<trisha> ubuntu.org
<sbalneav> Never seen it.
<sbalneav> Well, if it works for you...
<jsgotangco> fvwm really?
<LaserJock> trisha: openbox would be much better for you I think
<crimsun> nah, aewm.
<crimsun> or ion2
<LaserJock> actually, with 256MB of ram xfce4 should be fine
<crimsun> it's tolerable
<LaserJock> crimsun: I tried those too, but I like openbox the best for minimalist WMs
<LaserJock> I run full Ubuntu on a 1.3GHz machine with 256MB of RAM
<crimsun> it's not a minimalist WM.
<LaserJock> it's very tolerable
<LaserJock> crimsun: true
<LaserJock> crimsun: it's a bit relative
<LaserJock> compared to to Gnome and KDE it's pretty minimalist
<crimsun> do you mean metacity and kwin?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I mean Gnome and KDE
<crimsun> you can't compare entire environments to a window manager.  It's trivially obvious that the latter class is "minimalist" to the former.
<LaserJock> well yes
<LaserJock> but that's what people compare too
<LaserJock> "I'm running Ubuntu and I'd like something lighter"
<crimsun> I don't think it applies in this context given the discussion WRT "fvwm-crystal".
<LaserJock> well, it seemed to me that the trisha was looking for something lighter than default Ubuntu
<LaserJock> anyway, I understand what you're saying
<jsgotangco> sawfish rules you!
<trisha> is sawfish good?
<AnRkey> hi all
<AnRkey> how do i set my dhcp server to only handle requests from eth1?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<SimonAnibal> Good morning, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning SimonAnibal
<SimonAnibal> sbalneav, How are you this fine morning?
<sbalneav> Pretty good, seeing as how I fixed a bug last night.
<sbalneav> Just waiting for ogra to confirm I squashed it :)
<sbalneav> ogra: You there, big guy?
<cliebow_> hmm..update-manager seems wonky on my Hancock server.."subprocess bzip2 returned error code 2".what is screwed up?
<cliebow_> got it
<ogra> sbalneav, its wonderful ... i discovered one other blocker though, it crashes on wrong passwords
<ogra> i fixed the autologin mode as well
<ogra> and added reboot and shutdown functionallity
<cliebow_> sbalneav ROCKS
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> sbalneav, my T150 boots in 44 seconds :D
<ogra> with frocing X configuration 51
<cliebow_> HOLY CRAP
<ogra> its the fastest ltsp5 ever and can cope with 4.2 now :) we'll have a looong list for ltsp in the release notes
<cliebow_> Woohoo!!!
<ludoRA> hello
<pips1> \o/
<ludoRA> Is someone know mobinet?
<ludoRA> http://www-evasion.imag.fr/mobinet/
<pips1> ludoRA: don't know it, sounds fun though
<ludoRA> It's a research project
<ludoRA> But linux developpment stopped for long time ago
<ludoRA> Someone is going to restart it
<ludoRA> The mobinet team would have a mobinet linux version for some distro
<ludoRA> I think that it could be a good idea have this soft on edubuntu
<ludoRA> but I don't know how the developper have to make for this
<ludoRA> "sorry for my english speaking"
<pips1> is the source code available under an open source license?
<ludoRA> yes
<pips1> that helps :-)
<pips1> for distributing an application as part of a gnu/linux distribution, you need to "package" the software... I hope I'm not stating the obvious to you :-)
<ludoRA> but, they can't package it for all distribution
<pips1> there is a defined process on how to do that for ubuntu... there are various different "groups" / repositories for software
<pips1> no, they can't
<ludoRA> where can I found this?
<pips1> In many cases, the actual developers of a software don't do the packaging, but concentrate on writing the code :-)
<ludoRA> Yes, I know
<ludoRA> so, they have to find a packager
<ludoRA> a packager that test this package on testing repositories
<pips1> yes, that would be great
<pips1> in general, there are two main types of packages for gnu/linux distributions: "rpm" and "deb" packages
<ludoRA> where can I found a "manual" for integrate a new soft on edubuntu
<ludoRA> but debian's .deb is not the same than a ubuntu's .deb
<LaserJock> they are very similar
<LaserJock> and use the same package format, it's just a matter of the environment they build on really
<pips1> well, ubuntu has diveded their software into so-called components / repositories: main, restricted, universe
<ludoRA> I know, but's it's not really right for fedora's and mandriva's rpm
<pips1> introduction about ubuntu's components : http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
<LaserJock> no, .debs and .rpms are fairly different
<sbalneav> ogra: Nice!!!
<ogra> *sigh* that was the longes bzr push ever ...
<sbalneav> Hey, did you try the 377 version of LDM?
<LaserJock> although you can sometimes use alien to convert between them, but it's not perfect
<ogra> sbalneav, https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/scotts-gutsy-ogra
<ogra> please merge the last two changes as soon as they show up ...
<sbalneav> hokey doke
<ogra> i'll put in the packaging changes to make ldm2 the default there as well
<sbalneav> did that fix the keyboard stuff?
<ogra> yeah, all fine now
<sbalneav> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
* sbalneav does happy dance
<ogra> only the issue with the wrong passwords is left
<pips1> ludoRA: LaserJock is a packager, so he will be able to tell you all about packaging :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> ogra: btw, will you be around for the TB meeting at 19:00UTC?
<ogra> and the autologin needs some way to shut down the whole thing ... its quite odd that you have to hit the powerbutton to get out of the session
<pips1> LaserJock: didn't you start this this mentoring thing?
<ogra> LaserJock, today ?
<ogra> if i'm needed i'll be there :)
<LaserJock> ogra: yes
<LaserJock> well, I haven't heard from the TB, but I assume my interview is today
<ogra> great, i'll be there :)
<pips1> wow
<pips1> Laser do you need fan support ?
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> I think it's just supposed to be a short interview, I've already been approved by the MOTU Council
<ludoRA> LaserJock: have you seen this application: http://www-evasion.imag.fr/mobinet/
<LaserJock> no, interesting
<pips1> ludoRA: info about packaging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<pips1> LaserJock: is that page ^^^ relevant and up to date?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation is good
<pips1> ah
<LaserJock> also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<LaserJock> ogra: Keybuk is a little uncertain if there will actually be a TB meeting today, but if there is I'll be on the agenda
<ogra> good
<LaserJock> so I'll just ping you
<ogra> i'll keep an eye on the channel
<pips1> hmm, since you said it's probably more a formal thing (?), I might skip the fan part, if that's ok with you? :-)
<pips1> you know i'm a fan :-)
<ludoRA> thanks for all this links LaserJock
<LaserJock> ludoRA: if you need help with learning to package #ubuntu-motu is a great place
<LaserJock> that application looks pretty cool
<ludoRA> thanks LaserJock
<pips1> ludoRA: just out of curiosity, have you looked at other linux distros? did you approach them too? or first here? :-)
<ludoRA> first here
<ludoRA> but I'm contacting debian too
<ludoRA> at this moment
<pips1> good to hear :-)
<pips1> may I ask why first here?
<pips1> and can I ask, did you find it difficult to find your way here?
<ludoRA> my way to go to irc???
<pips1> yes, this channel :-)
<ludoRA> no, i didn't
<ludoRA> but, speaking english is very difficult for me
<cliebow_> you are doing very well
<pips1> I see. There are quite a few people around where English isn't their first language...
<pips1> ... so you aren't alone :-)
<pips1> besides that language, what do you find difficult?
<ludoRA> it's very simple for me using all web applications
<pips1> (sorry for all those questions - but I want to learn how we can make it easier for people to approach our project)
<ludoRA> so, I had no difficulty for this
<ludoRA> I'm on french Ubuntu site and irc
<ludoRA> for few months ago
<pips1> so how did you find this channel exactly? and why did you decide to approach edubuntu first?
<pips1> ah, you know ubuntu first :-)
<ludoRA> yes
<pips1> i see
<ludoRA> I were on ubuntu's french irc
<pips1> ok
<pips1> is it an active channel?
<ludoRA> and I seen edubuntu canal in freenode list
<pips1> ah, ok
<ludoRA> yes, it's an very active channel
<pips1> :-)
<ludoRA> so, I'd prefer to post on #Kubuntu-fr
<ludoRA> ;-)
<ludoRA> there are less people
<ludoRA> and questions
<pips1> less than ? here?
<ludoRA> less than #Ubuntu-fr
<pips1> understood
* pips1 counts 192 noses currently in ubuntu-fr
<pips1>  pips1 counts 34 noses currently in kubuntu-fr
<ludoRA> yes
* LaserJock wonders why pips1 is counting noses
<LaserJock> I counted feet and divided by 2 ;-)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> ah, scientists ;-)
<LaserJock> well, if I was taking that approach:
<LaserJock> I would use the laser to see how many people cross a specific line
<LaserJock> and using the volume of the room and the average velocity of a human being in such a room
<LaserJock> I'd come up with a 95% confidence limit on the probability that there were X number of people in the room
* ogra hopes LaserJock doesnt mount it in eye height
<pips1> LOL
<LaserJock> ogra: good point
<LaserJock> we try to avoid putting the laser at eye height at both standing and sitting positions
<LaserJock> in my lab it's almost exactly at eye height when sitting :/
<pips1> pffft
<pips1> unbelievable
<LaserJock> well, we just don't sit that often ;-)
<pips1> nobody of your height then?
<pips1> ahh, right
<pips1> but still
<LaserJock> the table that the laser sits on is 2 ton stainless steel with massive legs
<LaserJock> we can't do a lot about adjusting it
<LaserJock> so we have stools that are a bit higher than a normal chair
<LaserJock> like a bar stool
* pips1 imagines Laserjock and a group of fellow laser scientists gathering around the 2 ton table... now, on 3, and a 1, 2, 3, ...
<pips1> heave!
<pips1> quick, get that book under
<LaserJock> hahahaha
<LaserJock> the legs alone are rather heavy
<LaserJock> they are special to remove any vibration from earthquakes
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> so, in case of a big earthquake.. would you snatch yourself one of those legs and stand on top?
* pips1 is obviously doing something very boring at his day job right now ;-)
<LaserJock> heh
<pips1> yeah, that's it. I better go now and get this *#! finished
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> see you!
<LaserJock> geeze, I'm becoming a programming nerd
<LaserJock> I read that as a #! and thought he was doing programming
<cliebow_> -bash: /dev/null: Permission denied
<cliebow_> sbalneav: you using us.archive.ubuntu fopr updates?
<sbalneav> Usually I do
<ogra> sbalneav, shhh ... TB meeting in #ubuntu-meeting , LaserJock is going for core-dev maintainership
<cliebow_> im having weird issues with libsexy and musicbrainz? seem to be there but wont fetch
<sbalneav> ogra: Should I join?
<ogra> dunno, seems already done , but if you want to cheer :)
<LaserJock> holy smokes!!!!
<LaserJock> I made it!
<ogra> yay
<ogra> finally
* LaserJock hugs ogra 
* LaserJock hugs sbalneav 
* ogra hugs LaserJock 
* LaserJock hugs #edubuntu
<ogra> :D
<cliebow_> yippee!!
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage, you that's really you :-)
<greg_g> (an interested person who is not a part of the project) congrats LaserJock
<highvoltage> LaserJock: indeed :)
<LaserJock> greg_g: thank you
<crimsun> MC wouldn't have recommended if you wouldn't have
<cliebow_> LaserJock:so you moved up to the executive salary ?
<ogra> heh
<cliebow_> ogra: so what did i screw up updating to feisty? on ssh login -bash: /dev/null: Permission denied..lets me in after  a ctrl-C just the same
<ogra> cliebow_, if you said that with 'currency == bugs' in mind thats true :P
<ogra> cliebow_, did you use update-manager ?
<ogra> sounds like an udev breakage
<cliebow_> ogra:i did until i started getting little squares instead of letters..
<ogra> that was from edgy to feisty ?
<crimsun> yeah, I've seen that with /dev/null not being 666
<cliebow_> i kept pushing the right buttons i think
<cliebow_> i did 666 /dev/null and it went away til; reboot
<ogra> yeah, seems udev has gotten something wrong there
<crimsun> should be an old udev bug about this
<cliebow_> im gonna leave it til tomorrow i guess..getting woozy
<cliebow_> freenx went south on me so i cant tell what is up without driving up there..so tomorrow itis
<ogra> hmm, LP doesnt reveal any open bugs about that
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/83878
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83878 in udev "wrong permissions for /dev/null when /usr is a separate filesystem" [High,Fix released] 
<ogra> aha
<cliebow_> i found something about /lib/udev/devices...
<ogra> well, does restarting udev after boot fix it ?
<cliebow_> rebooting
<cliebow_> nope
<ogra> which udev version is installed ?
<cliebow_> 093-0ubuntu18
<ogra> should be something like 108-0ubuntu4
<ogra> so there you got your problem .... your upgrade didnt finish
<cliebow_> yes i see that now
<cliebow_> i cant get a gui without driving out..since nx is borked
<cliebow_> so tomorrow it is
<ogra> lsb_release -a <-- does that say feisty ?
<cliebow_> 7.04 feisty
<ogra> hm
<cliebow_> bbiab
* ogra calls it a day
#edubuntu 2007-06-20
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<testing>  can somebody help me to enable local devices on ltsp 5?
<testting>  can somebody help me to enable local devices on ltsp 5?
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<LaserJock> moquist!
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<moquist> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> moquist: how's it going?
<moquist> LaserJock: I'm at the Gould FOSSED ATM, so pretty hectic. ;)
<moquist> LaserJock: did you see the reply from Isaac (debian moodle packager)?
<moquist> LaserJock: do you know the answer to my above question? :)
<LaserJock> moquist: I don't think I did see it
<greg_g> is anyone here that knows who to tell to change something on the official edubuntu website?
<greg_g> it is just a dead link
<greg_g> well, anyways, on the screenshots page, the last section "Off-site Screenshots" the link to the OSDir "screenshot tour" is no longer valid
<greg_g> but this is the correct link: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=784&slide=3
<greg_g> whoops: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=784&slide=1
<greg_g> ping ogra, LaserJock, and stgraber (the only people I know who I believe are team leads) read above
<LaserJock> greg_g: got it
<moquist> LaserJock: I got it figured out. I had the wrong nfsroot param.
<moquist> ogra: I figured out the answer; reading linux-src/Documentation/nfsroot.txt was enough. :)
<pygi> LaserJock, congrats
<willvdl> highvoltage, did elmo do anything about the webserver?
<highvoltage> willvdl: guess.
<willvdl> harumph
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/003503.html
* ogra dances
<RichEd> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> RichEd: pong
<cberlo> Anyone find a good workaround for the broken CUPS server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> cberlo, in what way?
<cberlo> CUPS hits some kind of error and starts spitting out "Unable to accept connection" at about 100 messages a minute (or more).  Restarting the service fixes it, but it returns later.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i think i know the bug, but i dont know a fix
<Kamping_Kaiser> bug/feature/problem
<cberlo> My fix so far has been to use a cron job to see if the error exists every 15 minutes and restart the service.  Just wondering if a more frequent check would work or just cause system lag.
<cberlo> Alright.  guess I'll try the tweak it and see approach.  :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cottima> anyone ever done an edubuntu install on a scsi hdd?
* ogra did one to a usb DH if that counts
<ogra> *HD
<ogra> yesterday ...
<cottima> why is there no ltsp 5 documentation or am I looking in the wrong areas?
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-May/001059.html
<cottima> It does not specify 5.0, some of it seemed to be for prior versions of ltsp5.0
<ogra> all that listed there is for ltsp5
<juliux> ogra, congratulations for the new ltsp5
<ogra> juliux, thanks, i see you read planet :)
<juliux> ogra, sure, i will setup my test systems tomorrow so i can see if it is true with 44secs;)
<ogra> i was to lazy to do my tech update n the meeting today, so i can just post the blog url :)
<ogra> juliux, thats on a T150 from disklessworkstations.com
<ogra> i havent tested the T1220 yet but it should be around the same
<juliux> ogra, i will test it on the transtec one;)
<Shadow31> I'm having a problem with my Edubuntu LTSP thin client network. I can log any account on fine from the server itself, but users can't log in from the workstations. Any ideas?
<stgraber> ltsp-update-keys (IIRC), that looks like a bad ssh signature
<cottima> ogra, excuse my moments then, I am bit upset with ltsp.org for not doing much documentation.  My opinion:  I think that they should host all documentation.
<ogra> cottima, well, with ltsp5 thats rather a job of the distros for the distro specific parts at least ...
<cliebow_> cottima:things are devloping wicked fast..but point taken..we need someone to grab that project and run witit
<ogra> ltsp itself will only be caring for the ltsp scripts in the future ...
<ogra> common stuff like lts.conf options etc should g to ltsp.org ... but things that relate to apt shuldnt be in redhat docs ;)
<cliebow_> red what?
<ogra> heh
<cliebow_> k..i need to crawl back to the hole Gadi left for me when he went to Betherl
<cottima> that is kind of what I mean.  (If I understand ltsp 5,) The scripts and "user end" part should be documented on their site, yet I think they should mirror the docs.  (Although, most of what I say is out of frustration.)
<cliebow_> Balls!
<ogra> cottima, well, you are surely right ... we're lacking a bit manpower at ltsp.org for fixing the docs  .. as you can see from my mail its not different in (ed)ubuntu either
<juliux> ogra, should i upgrade my feisty to gutsy or better make a fresh gutsy installation?
<cottima> I guess I should shut up for now, since I have no time being in school.   Then I should contribute to a project by helping in making docs.
<cottima> I am having trouble with installing to a scsi hdd on the desktop and server cd.
<ogra> juliux, as you like, both should work ... but rebuild the client ...
<juliux> ogra, ok
<ogra> cottima, well, thats not really an ltsp related problem i would think
<ogra> whats the error you get ?
<Shadow31> Thanks, stgraber! I tried updating the keys and it worked.
<cottima> ogra, "unable to determine geometry of file/device.  You should not use Parted unless you REALLY know what you're doing!"  then after a few buttons.  It will not go to the partitioning tool (listing the dev and its partiton layout).
<ogra> on the server/alternate Cd as well ?
<juliux> ogra, i will make a fresh installation
<ogra> juliux, tribe1 and upgrading should be fine i guess
<cottima> orgra, Both Edubuntu's Desktop cd and Server cd do the same thing.
<ogra> did you look at launchpad if there are known bugs ?
<cottima> ogra:no
<cliebow_> cottima:that a raid controller?
<cottima> I think, only has two drive bays
<cliebow_> so it seems it is borking recognizing the comtroller?
<cottima> cliebow_ somewhat, it shows "/dev/ida/c0d0 = 0B0  Compaq Smart Array" in "[!!]  Partition Disks"
<cottima> it sees it, but does not want to work
<ogra> cottima, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/110585
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110585 in linux-source-2.6.20 "7.04 Server install fails on Compaq Proliant DL360" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<cottima> ogra, wow, the exact model too!  thank you
<ogra> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2321786#post2321786
<ogra> that looks like a workaround
<cottima> going to try it.
<cottima> if it works then it looks like I burned server for no reason since I had a desktop cd already.
<ogra> there is no expert mode on the desktop CD ...
<cliebow_> cottima, maybe selll it on the black market 8~)
<ogra> the woraround seems to use the expert mode
<cottima> you mean to M$, so they can make an agreement the way they really want?
<cliebow_> heh
<cliebow_> this is a family channel...
<svg> Hi folks
<svg> I just read http://www.grawert.net/weblog.cgi/2007/06/20#2007-0620_17:54:20_LTSP_is_dead,_long_live_LTSP which made me come here
<svg> I haven't used LTSP technology yet, and before I dive into it, I wanted to get some feedback
<ogra> shoot
<svg> I was wondering about performance of remote X stuff
<svg> I once did a remote DMCP X session from laptop to desktop, over my home lan hub, and that was painfully slow
<svg> so I'm wondering how LTSP is different
<ogra> you should have a switch and you should have a 100MBit network
<svg> 100mbit I had
<svg> it was no switch, but it was the only traffic on my home lan at the time
<ogra> well, thats usually sufficient to run a bunch of ltsp clients on ...
<svg> well, it wasn't :)
<svg> I tend to compare with other technologies such as windows remote desktop, citrix and freenx, which are extrremely performant at what they do
<ogra> what did you run on your laptop when you tried that ?
<ogra> note that LTSP is rather like an embedded system that only starts X server and login manager on the client side
<svg> both hosts were runining plain ubuntu, the laptop is a very recent box
<ogra> well, try out ltsp and check yourself :)
<ogra> many people use it happily on 100MBit networks :)
<sbalneav> ogra: heh, saw the bloggy post.
<svg> well, I'm sure it's good stuff, i'm just curious on the technicall differences
<sbalneav> Excellent.
<sbalneav> I'll make one too :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> svg, the DIRECTX mode i blogged about isnt much different from standard XDMCP (apart from password encryption)
<ogra> the encrypted mode we use by default does essentially: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
<svg> ogra, ok, I'll read into this, this stuff is new for me
<cliebow_> Rockin!
* ogra goes to have dinner ... back for the meeting
<cliebow_> ogra:want a couple spellcheck fixes for your blog..prob not..
<cliebow_> ogra: so .tsp-server-standalone should be like 5.0.18? apt-get install says latest version at 5.0.7..but i suppose this is still feisty..
<ogra> cliebow_, likely if you didnt fix that yet
<ogra> and it should be 5.0.17
<LaserJock> hi ogra
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<ogra> hey hey
<sbalneav> Show us your magical new powerzzz, and upload some packages!
<ogra> yeah, break gcompris and unbreak it again just to show off :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra> (its only 100M source :) )
<LaserJock> actually I was thinking of uploading edubuntu-docs today
<ogra> cool
<LaserJock> nixternal made a few changes I think and I wanted to put the "About Edubuntu" .desktop translations in
<ogra> we should look if we can add replacement code for the "about ..." stuff to the panel ...
<ogra> i dont want to have the two entries eternally
<ogra> at least not if they show the same icon
<LaserJock> well, I can do it
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure what seb will thing
<LaserJock> *think
<ogra> ask him ;)
<highvoltage> hey guys
<cliebow_> heyhey!
<svg> hi highvoltage:) nice song
<highvoltage> svg: thank you, I listened to the meteora version a few times too many when I chose the nick ;)
<highvoltage> I mean, reanimation, not meteora!
<svg> reanimation=?
<cottima> would someone paste bin kernel-parameters.txt?
<highvoltage> svg: which song are you talking about? :)
<svg> AC/DC
<highvoltage> svg: aah, I'm sorry to disapoint, but my nick is based on the linkin park one. I do agree that the AC/DC one is a good song, though
<highvoltage> svg: nice vector graphics format :p
<svg> highvoltage: yeah, svg are just my initials irl
<highvoltage> svg: noticed from your $REALNAME
<svg> that sucks when people talk about svg the format in a channel :)
<highvoltage> I get hilights a lot when people want to say "hi" and then press tab accidentally
<highvoltage> I also have "voltage" and "jonathan" on hilight, becuase people say things like "hi voltage" (or high voltage) when they want to talk to me
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how's it going, btw. been ages since I talked to you.
<highvoltage> LaserJock, ogra: I'm going to miss the meeting tonight, need some sleep- been up way to early this morning.
<highvoltage> All I can say is that we have a new website theme, and it can go up soon, there's been a delay caused on an upgrade that needs to take place on the canonical server. It's been prioritised and Znarl should be done with it by the end of the week.
<highvoltage> ping me tomorrow and I'll give you more details. but for now, goodnight from me.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hi again
<LaserJock> bye
<highvoltage> oh, hi LaserJock  :)
<LaserJock> ogra: quick C question, what's a good way to do a if ( bar and not foo)?
<flubbe1> /nameserver
<flubbe1> /help] 
<lns> Anyone a PXE masta here? =)
<willvdl> howdi
<RichEd> hi willvdl & others
<RichEd> ---- edubuntu meeting --- in #ubuntu-meeting --- in 5 mins ----
<LaserJock> argg, really?
<cottima> if I install ubuntu, what do I do to change it to edubuntu (site link please)?
<ogra> install edubuntu-desktop :)
<cottima> ogra is that a package?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> look for it in synaptic package manager
<cottima> I have a compaq dl360, so all ubuntu CDs will not install, I think I found a custom cd for it.  yet I was wondering, to conserve CD-Rs and since I have a debian install.  Is it possible to change a debian install to unbuntu/edubuntu?
<cottima> ogra, it could be bad question but... Is it possible to change a debian install to unbuntu/edubuntu?
<LaserJock> that's kind of tough
<LaserJock> it can do bad things, but it could also kinda work
<ogra_> i'd call it gambling
<ogra_> but if you are lucky *shrug*
<cottima> well, I am kind of lost on this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2321786#post2321786
<cottima> when I tried expert, it did the same thing.  then tried again at boot up exited to text and typed "linux noprobe noapic noapci" and that time it did not even show a drive at all.  so is there something at bootup that I do or do I download the torrent on page 2?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: C question for you ;-)
<sbalneav> Yes indeedy
<LaserJock> I'm trying to do an if with two conditions
<LaserJock>  condition1 and not condition2
<LaserJock> can I just do condition1 && !condition2?
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> if ( a == 1 && !(b == 2))
<sbalneav> Might have to use some parens
<sbalneav> if b is an int, if you write:
<sbalneav> if (a == 1 && !b == 2)
<sbalneav> if b != 0 you'll get 0 == 2
<sbalneav> if b == 0 then you'll get 1 == 2
<sbalneav> so it'll always be false no matter what b is.
<sbalneav> so throw in some extra parens.
<sbalneav> I usually ALWAYS, as a matter of style write like this:
<sbalneav> if ( (a == 1) && !(b == 2) )
<sbalneav> which makes it abundantly clear what you're trying to accomplish
<sbalneav> make sense?
<LaserJock> yes it does
<LaserJock> building new gnome-panel
* pips1 , slightly dazzled, stumbles into the room and wonders if there was a meeting
<pips1> hello?
<pips1> is there a meeting? was there one? did I miss it?
<LaserJock> pips1: there was
<LaserJock> you missed it
<pips1> oops
<pips1> darn
<pips1> well, I would have been able to contribute anything useful. I have been buried in work :-(
<pips1> Congrats again to your core-dev status LaserJock!
<LaserJock> pips1: actually, we wondered if a beta of the new edubuntu.org was available anywhere
<pips1> nope
<sbalneav> Be on later tonight.
<sbalneav> night all
<pips1> by 'beta of edubuntu.org', you prosumably mean a drupal 5.1 site with a modified ubuntu.com theme, I take it
<LaserJock> yes
<pips1> sbalneav: cu!
<Peaceful> I just tried using a Neoware c50 client as an ltsp-client on a brand-new edubuntu 7.04 x86 install, and all sorts of screen artifacts are present when you log in
<pips1> LaserJock: was highvoltage at the meeting?
<Peaceful> anyone have any idea what I could try to get rid of the massive screen weirdness?
<pips1> Peaceful: did you try different video drivers?
<Peaceful> pips1, nope, haven't tried a thing.  I'm fairly new to ltsp stuff.
<Peaceful> pips1, so, I assume I could read up on client configuration for how to change video drivers?
<pips1> Peaceful: I'm actually not sure how well that is documented... let me have a quick look for you
<Peaceful> pips1, ok...I'm looking for client configuration docs too...
<Peaceful> http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig  <-- looks close, but nothing about video drivers
<Peaceful> no, wait, XSERVER seems to be a video driver parameter
<pips1> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-client.html
<pips1> perhaps "XSERVER = vesa"
<pips1> not sure though
<Peaceful> sounds like a good start
<Peaceful> hmm, how do you figure out the MAC address of a client when the display isn't working so well?
<Peaceful> maybe dhcp3 logs MAC addresses...
<pips1> worth a look
<LaserJock> pips1: no, he was too tired
<pips1> ic
<LaserJock> pips1: he stopped by before he went to bed to tell us the situation
<pips1> and?
<pips1> what did he say?
<LaserJock> that the server was being upgraded
<LaserJock> and it should be done todayish
<pips1> aha
* pips1 wonders what is being upgraded
<Peaceful> yep, dhcp requests log mac addresses (yay!)
<LaserJock> pips1: see pm
#edubuntu 2007-06-21
<shishir> hi all
<shishir> can somebody help me with Edubuntu Live CD
<sbalneav> What do you need?
<shishir> I'm trying it on Dell C600 laptop and I'm getting BUffer I/O error and then some Gnome display error
<shishir> finally it freezes while displaying the window manager
<shishir> I tried Xubuntu also, looks like I get the same error
<sbalneav> Where are you getting this error?
<sbalneav> After you've logged in?
<shishir> while booting up after the Edubuntu splash screen
<shishir> and then a series of console messages with [OK] 
<sbalneav> You might want to try booting it with the boot options "noapic", or maybe "acpi=off"
<sbalneav> Or both
<sbalneav> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-372429.html
<shishir> will try that
<sbalneav> has some other boot options you could try.
<shishir> I tried installing with Ubuntu with Alternate CD, it failed installing Ubuntu
<shishir> thought may be some hard disk problems and so trying xubuntu live CD
<sbalneav> http://radagast.bglug.ca/laptop/ubuntu_on_latitude_c600.html
<sbalneav> looks like you need "nodma" option
<shishir> great, I'll try to follow that link ..thanx
<shishir> how much RAM do I need
<shishir> for this to work
<sbalneav> 128 might be a bit tight
<sbalneav> but workable
<sbalneav> 256's good
<sbalneav> anything more's gravy.
<shishir> I have 256 but somehow these days it says memory changed and it shows only 160
<sbalneav> Sounds like something whacky in your bios
<sbalneav> You haven't allocated 96 megs for video ram, have you?
<sbalneav> in Bios?
<shishir> you think that might also be the problem
<sbalneav> Possibly
<sbalneav> I'd check it anyway.
<shishir> hmm.I didn't change anything in bios, it shows only 8MB for video ram I think
<sbalneav> That seems reasonable
<sbalneav> Wife's calling me to go for a walk.
<sbalneav> I'll be AFK for an hour or so.
<sbalneav> Give that last link a try, and see if you can get it booted, at least.
<shishir> thanx for your help.I'll try
<sbalneav> np
<sbalneav> be back later
<sbalneav> Back
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<lns> wb sbalneav
<sbalneav> Looks like the new ltsp-server package has made it to archives.
<sbalneav> Looks like I'll have to rebuild my chroot :)
<sbalneav> Morning RichEd
<emman101> anybody know how to connect to mirc.undernet server?
<willvdl> highvoltage, did the guys get back to you about the webserver?
<stgraber> Argh, seems like my Tribe-1 Edubuntu CD doesn't want to build the ltsp (stick at 50% for >1 hour ...), let's try a "command line system" install and then install ltsp + desktop
<ogra> stgraber, can you look at console4 where it hangs ?
<juliux> stgraber, switch with alt +f4 to the console there is a log file of the installation so you can see why it stops
<juliux> shit too slow
<ogra> (it shouldnt)
<ogra> q:q
<ogra> oops
<ogra> wrong keyboard ....
<stgraber> :), IIRC it was about copying files/setting up the tftp server, quickly reinstalling it and will tell you exactly what that's
<ogra> building the client later makes sense btw, since what was built on tribe1 is still the old ltsp ... you'd need to rebuild the chroot anyway
<ogra> but it still shouldnt hang :)
<stgraber> yes, I planned to install Tribe-1 and then update + ltsp-build-client but it doesn't really want me to do so it seems :)
<ogra> hmm
* juliux is burning the tribe1 cd;)
* stgraber should really buy a faster HDD for its test computer, 15GB isn't that large and it also is so slooow
<emman101> i have created a bash program that can multiply thousand bash files and commands in a network in a certain period of time all i need is a php interface for web access
<emman101> anyone who wants to help me?
<stgraber> The installer finally has started building the LTSP chroot, let's see where it gets stuck
<emman101> ?
<ogra> its normal that it takes 10-20 min from 50% to 100 with no movement
<ogra> you should see it working on tty4 though
<stgraber> ogra: Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
<stgraber> IIRC that's were it previously got stuck
<ogra> hmm
<stgraber> I'll wait some more minutes anyway
<ogra> thats just copying the /boot dir from the chroot
<stgraber> I've a copy of "ps aux" and the syslog, do you want anything else ?
<stgraber> ogra: ^ (10 minutes it's "updating /var/lib/tftpboot")
<ogra> no, thats enough, can yu file a bug and attach it ?
<stgraber> sure
<juliux> ogra, why is the tribe1 iso calle gutsy-server-i386.iso ? isnt there an edubuntu missing?
<ogra> its in the edubuntu dir, isnt it ? :)
<stgraber> juliux: distribution is in the iso file name
<stgraber> ogra: Is that a ltsp-server bug ?
<ogra> stgraber, ltsp
<juliux> ogra, but not on my local harddisk;)
<stgraber> ok
<juliux> and the ubuntu-server iso has the same name so if i have downloaded booth i cannt see the difference
<stgraber> ogra: bug 121547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50%" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> thanks
<stgraber> no problem, let's install the command line system now :)
<ogra> stgraber, oh
<ogra> stgraber, you are using updates during install ...
<ogra> that means its building the squashfs image after copying the tftp stuff
<ogra> so thats normal
<stgraber> hmm, I didn't do anything but following the usual steps :)
<stgraber> so that's because debian-installer automatically does the updates
<ogra> i see /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image running
<ogra> but not mksquashfs
<ogra> there is no code in the installer yet to handle ltsp-update-image
<ogra> so you wont see any output
<stgraber> hmm, what's strange is why did the installer get the new package ?
<stgraber> did they turn auto-updates on ?
<ogra> well, it usually asks you
<ogra> if you would do a non networked install you would get plain tribe1 but this way you get updates
<`6og> is there anythign talking about the new not-primary stuff targeted to edubuntu, and whwat sort of timeline would be attached?
<ogra> jsgotangco, congrats !
<jsgotangco> hrmm?
<ogra> jsgotangco, new job ... or did linkedin lie
<jsgotangco> ahh yes
<jsgotangco> heh i actually am getting bored being unemployed for a month
<jsgotangco> but yeah i got a new job
<jsgotangco> we work in maven and hadoop
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<cottima> is the thin client manager available for other distros?
<ogra> cottima, nope
<ogra> not afaik
<cottima> oh, well.  I guess for now I will use the debian install, then recompile edubuntu to work on cpqarray scsi.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> ogra: isn't : aptitude install edubuntu-desktop edubuntu-server && ltsp-build-client supposed to install the Edubuntu server ?
<stgraber> I can boot a thin client, it gets the IP, then load the initrd & stuff using tftp
<stgraber> I see the Edubuntu logo but a second after I've a shell
<stgraber> and 4 mount error on tty1
<ogra> thats bad
<stgraber> Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init it says ...
<ogra> cat /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp
<ogra> MODULES="netboot"
<ogra> BOOT="ltsp-nbd"
<ogra> does yours show the same ?
<RichEd> ogra: chatting to anestis in #edulinux ... if you want to join us or observe (optional)
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> I also have a : nbdrootd : connect from 172.16.4.216 in the server's syslog
<ogra> stgraber, weird
<ogra> the ip is your client ?
<stgraber> yes
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> so apparenly the initramfs tries to connect
<ogra> can you type mount in the chell ?
<ogra> *shell
<ogra> and see if there is /rofs or /cow in it ?
<stgraber> I've : /sys, /proc, /dev, /cow, /root and /root/cow mounted
<stgraber> mount: Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: invalid argument (on tty1)
<ogra> aha
<ogra> seems like a bug in the ltsp-nbd script ...
<ogra> can you check the PXE config ?
<ogra> it should have NBDPORT in the kernel commandline
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~/devel/scotts-gutsy$ cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<ogra> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash NBDPORT=2000
<ogra> and that port must match the setting in /etc/inetd.conf
<ogra> for nbdrootd
<ogra> also check if the image is word readble in /opt/ltsp/images
<ogra> *world
<stgraber> I don't have any NBDPORT in pxelinux.cfg/default ...
<ogra> aha
<ogra> well, it falls back to 2000 if its not set
<ogra> what does your inetd,conf say ?
<stgraber> nbdrootd on :2000
<ogra> good
<ogra> check the image
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~/devel/scotts-gutsy$ ls -l /opt/ltsp/images/
<ogra> insgesamt 143212
<ogra> -rwxr--r-- 1 root root 146501632 2007-06-21 15:57 i386.img
<stgraber> I'm rebuilding it (just in case)
<stgraber> world readable here as well
<ogra> weird
<stgraber> isn't : nbd-client 172.16.1.2 2000 /dev/nbd0 supposed to be correct ?
<stgraber> ok, weird : It returns : Negocation:
<stgraber> then the prompt
<stgraber> and on the server I see the : connect from 172.16.4.214
<stgraber> but mounting the squashfs -> No such device
<stgraber> (I got the commands from /scripts/ltsp-nbd)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i have to check myself ....
<ogra> sbalneav seemed to have the same prob last night
<stgraber> is nbd-client supposed to launch some sort of daemon ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it should only create the device and background itself
<stgraber> ok
<ogra> do you have /dev/nbd0 ?
<ogra> and is a nbd-client process running ?
<stgraber> I have /dev/nbd0 (in fact I've nbd0->nbd15) but no nbd-client process running
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok, so we're sure its the nbd connection
<juliux> ogra, tribe1 didnt reboot after finishing the installtion
<ogra> well
<ogra> if you force it, does it work after boot ?
<juliux> it ejects the cd but didnt reboot
<ogra> ah
<ogra> acpi glitch it seems
<juliux> the last row i see on the screen is sd 0:0:0:0: [sda]  Syncrhonizign SCSI cache
<juliux> ogra, strg+alt+del is also not working;)
<ogra> just powercycle it
<ogra> its either uspash osr something low level
<juliux> ok
<ogra> nothing w eneed to care about now :)
<ogra> ubuntu stuff
<juliux> ok
<juliux> i will install all the updates
<RichEd> ogra: can you join a phone chat
<juliux> ogra, should i remove the old chroot or just run ltsp-build-client again?
<ogra> juliux, yes
<juliux> ogra, yes for an or question is not an answer;)
<ogra> yes to the latter
<juliux> i have the answer allready because ltsp-build-client said pls remove the old one befor running ltsp-build-client again
<Ind[y] > The whole thing with the Keyring Manager is just nonsense and should immediately be removed!
<ogra> ??
<sbalneav> There's a man who's got a beef
<juliux> ogra, that is my dhcpd.conf http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11966/ and ps aux said there i also a dhcp3-server running but i didnt get an ip address on the client, any hints?
<sbalneav> ogra: Just got ldmgtkgreet listening to stdin, and am able to set a message area with a message :) :) :)
<ogra> yay
<sbalneav> Better logins, here we come!
<juliux> ogra, any ideas about the dhcp-server?
<sbalneav> Yesterday, I couldn't even spell "gtk/glib programmer" and today I are one. :)
<sbalneav> juliux: where's your dhcpd.conf?  In /etc/ltsp?
<juliux> sbalneav, yes
<sbalneav> juliux: check in /var/log/daemon.log.  Is the dhcpd server seeing the requests?
<juliux> sbalneav, now the gutsy computer hangs up;)
<sbalneav> Well, it is beta, you know :)
<juliux> sbalneav, sure
<juliux> i have an extra computer for gutsy
<juliux> so  i have no problems with reinstalling and crashing systems
<sbalneav> Check in the log file when you have it back up
<juliux> i think it is not beta it is a prealpha
<ogra> nah
<juliux> sbalneav, i think there is something realy brocken
<ogra> ltsp is beta :)
<juliux> ogra, but not networkmanager
<ogra> well ...
<sbalneav> Ah, I've been having some problems with NM the last few days.
<ogra> i think the NM maintainers would tell you its past beta :)
<juliux> the first thing i did on my home computer was removing networkmanager
<ogra> juliux, http://www.wdr.de/themen/_config_/kurznach/index.jhtml?tid=1388709
<sbalneav> I have to ifdown  and ifup to get my static interface to wake up
<ogra> thats my landlord from my last house ...
* ogra is still shocked
<juliux> ogra, upps
<sbalneav> For those of us not German, what does that say? :)
<ogra> they found him with cut throat today for people not reading german
<juliux> sbalneav, that somebody killed him
<ogra> in frnt of the house
<sbalneav> Oh, bummer
<ogra> will be on tv in 20min ...
<sbalneav> What does  "Schnittverletzungen" mean?
<ogra> dont want to miss it ...
<ogra> cuts
<ogra> or wouldns caused by cuts
<ogra> *wounds
<sbalneav> Stab wounds
<ogra> yeah
<juliux> so after a few reboots it is working now
<ogra> juliux, reboots of the client ?
<juliux> ogra, no of the server
<ogra> ah
* ogra wonders if stgraber's prob might also be NM related
<juliux> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<juliux> WARNING: /opt/ltsp/./images/etc/ssh not found. skipping...
<juliux> hmmm
<ogra> fine
<ogra> there shouldnt be an /etc in the images dir :)
<juliux> ah ok
<ogra> if you run update-sshkeys you need to run ltsp-update-image afterwards now
<ogra> sorry, i havent fod a way to prevent that
<ogra> *found
<ogra> anyway
* ogra is off to the TV
<juliux> thxs
<juliux> you are too fast with the ltsp development
<juliux> /bin/sh: cant access tty: job control turned off
<LaserJock> morning Edu land
<juliux> morning core-dev
<padsan> hello
<padsan> could anyone tell me the name of the java packages of JRE for edubuntu
<padsan> I don't seem to have them on my repos
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> left too soon
<stgraber> LaserJock: yes, looks like a lot of people expect to have an answer to their question within the next 5 minutes :) (even 3 for him)
<LaserJock> heh
<edistar> the installer hangs at 50% building chroot..
<ogra> edistar, gutsy ?
<edistar> I have installed it previously on the same machine before and it worked, I have changed nothing..
<edistar> no, feisty
<ogra> hmm, check on console 4 whats going on....
<ogra> (alt-f4)
<edistar> it's already 30 minutes setting up console..
<edistar> no errors
<edistar> the cd is not broken, I ordered it.. and I checked it aswell..
<edistar> any ideas?
<ogra> not really, if you dont see any error messages ...
<edistar> no :(
<edistar> there isn't a keyboard combination that gets me a step back, is there?
<ogra> nope
<edistar> I'll try to install again..
<edistar> it worked once
<ogra> i havent seen such a behavior ever ... are you sure your HW is proper ?
<edistar> yes, I am..
<edistar> debian is running on it
<edistar> I wanted to add edubuntu as a vm in xen
<edistar> DomU can be unmodified cause of the virtualization in the cpu
<edistar> but I can't even install it
<sbalneav> So, you're not installing this ON the box, you're installing it under xen?
<edistar> no
<edistar> on the box.
<edistar> xen takes the partition later on
<edistar> but first the OS is installed in a separate partition as if it were bootable
<edistar> like normal
<sbalneav> When the installer's running for the chroot, can you switch to another console?
<edistar> yes
<sbalneav> Did you log in and see what it was doing?
<edistar> I can switch to F4 and it tells me about console-setu
<edistar> p
<edistar> but that can't take 45 min, can it?
<sbalneav> One of them (f2 I think) allows you to hit enter to activate the console
<sbalneav> then you can do a ps -ef and see what it's up to.
<edistar> okey... I restarted the install now, but I'll remember..
<edistar> what kind of console is it actually?
<edistar> some kind of busybox?
<sbalneav> Beleive so
<edistar> ok
<edistar> btw: anyone notice any bugs in sabayon yet?
<edistar> I don't know where I can file them or even look at them?
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sabayon
<sbalneav> ogra: hehhehehehe
<sbalneav> I've now got a greeter that's controlled by stdin
<ogra> cool
<sbalneav> commands:
<sbalneav> msg <message text>
<sbalneav> prompt <prompt text>
<sbalneav> userid
<sbalneav> passwd
<sbalneav> and quit
<ogra> lang/session ?
<sbalneav> I'll add those.
<ogra> wowie
<ogra> thats great
<sbalneav> So, now, we can script the login session
<ogra> stdin is the right way :)
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> better than a socket or so
<sbalneav> yes indeedy
<ogra> one thing bugs me though ...
<sbalneav> whassat?
<ogra> we wot be able to make it a stadalone app
<ogra> *wont
<sbalneav> what, the greeter?
<ogra> at least with the socked being open as it is atm
<ogra> *socket
<sbalneav> No, I suppose not, but we can't have everything. :)
<ogra> depends ... we could run it as ldm user ;)
<sbalneav> That's possible
<Jalex> Just installed 7.04 feisty and get this error NFS over TCP not available from 192.168.0.254
<Jalex> any thoughts
<ogra> well, does your nfsd run ?
<ogra> does portmap run
<Jalex> will check
<Jalex> both run
<LaserJock> bluekuja: ping?
<bluekuja> LaserJock, heya
<LaserJock> bluekuja: I figured out the problem with you debian/rules section
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> LaserJock, you gonna push it?
<bluekuja> LaserJock, let me knwo when pushed, so I can annunce it on MOTU list ;)
<bluekuja> *know
<LaserJock> bluekuja: how did you turn this into docbook?
<bluekuja> LaserJock, manually :P
<bluekuja> oh wait
<bluekuja> I just written it in xml
<bluekuja> did *not* transformed it
<bluekuja> into docbook
<LaserJock> so you just rewrote it in docbook?
<bluekuja> yup
<bluekuja> manually
<LaserJock> bluekuja: it's been committed
<bluekuja> LaserJock, :)
<bluekuja> gonna announce it now
<bluekuja> thanks again!
<bluekuja> :)
<LaserJock> bluekuja: look it over first before you announce it
<LaserJock> I might have made a mistake
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> LaserJock, it gets automatically synced to doc.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> I think so, doc.ubuntu.com is generally rebuilt daily
<LaserJock> unless something gets messed up
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> gonna wait that sync
<bluekuja> before announcing
<LaserJock> moquist: around?
#edubuntu 2007-06-22
<andrew2> Looking for help setting up LDAP.  I've been following tutorials to the tee and keep getting ldap_bind: Can't contact LDAP server (-1) when I query the userbase
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<LaserJock> nixternal: I got the edubuntu-about.desktop translations in
<nixternal> rock on!
<nixternal> right now someone uploaded a bogus dhcpd that doesn't allow me to view the intarweb
<crimsun> Martin touched it last.
<crimsun> and it's dhcdbd.
<sbalneav> I figured it was going to take WEEKS to even BEGIN to get an interactive greeter going for ldm2
<sbalneav> Turns out I did most of it in one day.
<LaserJock> rock ON!
<sbalneav> Some kind soul in #gtk+ turned me on to JUST the right call I needed.
<sbalneav> I'm hoping to have a first cut of an ldm that can handle bad passwords, and password expiry's by Sunday, if I'm lucky.
<nixternal> crimsun: ya, I just installed dhcpcd and it seems I have internet
<nixternal> don't know why it was uninstalled
<crimsun> that's a very severe problem, since you shouldn't need a universe package to establish it.
<crimsun> I'd check with lure regarding his NM changes
<moquist> LaserJock: now, for about 2 minutes
<moquist> RichEd-2: hey hey
<moquist> sbalneav: sounds good. I'm listening. :)
<moquist> Well, sorta. I've popped in for about 10 minutes before going offline until Sunday afternoon.
<moquist> ciao!
<sbalneav> cya
<andrew____> trying to set up edubuntu server and the thin client is registereing its DHCP IP address but reporting a "FILE NOT FOUND" error.
<andrew____> When I look in /opt folder on the server, it's empty...
<sbalneav> Have you done an ltsp-update-kernels?
<andrew____> let me try that...
<sbalneav> If /opt is empty, you've got no ltsp at all
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client in that case
<andrew____> but my package manager says it's installed
<andrew____> ah...
<sbalneav> the packages are installed, but you haven't built the chroot
<andrew____> yes...it's building now!
<andrew____> I built it on top of ubuntu, rather than installing from edubuntu server distro...
<sbalneav> Right, that was the problem.
<sbalneav> the ltsp chroot gets built at server install time.
<andrew____> how do I return to fix the pixel dimensions I set.  I accidentally limited things to the highest resolution.
<sbalneav> system->preferences->screen resolution
<andrew____> I used apt-get install edubuntu-server
<andrew____> Aren't the dropdown parameters determined by a config file?  I've got a high resolution monitor and it's dimensions don't appear...
<sbalneav> You could do dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, I beleive
<andrew____> also, is it normal for the graphics to be "laggy" in an x terminal?  I'm running edubuntu desktop GUI on my server install and the screen refresh time is really slow...
<sbalneav> Depends how fast the X box is.
<sbalneav> Things will be a little slower.  Encryptions being used, the X is being tunneled over ssh.
<sbalneav> In the next version (gutsy) you'll have the option of going unencrypted for speed.
<andrew____> Even when it's happenning on the same machine, correct?
<andrew____> I've got the thin client booting now.  Hoooray.
<sbalneav> Sorry, are you talking about slow screen on a thin client, or on the server?
<andrew____> On the server
<andrew____> Dragging windows creates horrible trails...
<sbalneav> What kind of video card do you have?
<andrew____> Its an onboard, cheap one.
<sbalneav> Might want to check your xorg.conf, maybe it used the vesa driver
<andrew____> where is that file again?
<sbalneav> /etc/X11/
<andrew____> So I'd want to switch the driver to....?
<sbalneav> "An onboard, cheap one", whatever that is.
<andrew____> sorry, I'm a bit dense...looking at the device manager doesn't reveal anything about the video card...is this to be expected if it has a generic driver?
<andrew____> Another issue, the thin client screen is shifted about 4" left of where it should be.
<sbalneav> Flatpanel?
<andrew____> yes
<sbalneav> lspci should tell you what kind of card you have.
<sbalneav> just hit the auto button
<andrew____> VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UniChrome Pro IGP (rev 01)
<andrew____> "auto button" ?
<sbalneav> So, you'll want driver "via"
<sbalneav> Most flatpanel LCD monitors have an "auto" button for syncing resolution.
<andrew____> This is a TV
<sbalneav> You connecting through the svideo connector?
<andrew____> VGA
<sbalneav> Could be it's not reporting the DCC information correctly
<sbalneav> xorg relies on the monitor reporting it's frequencies properly.  A ton of things are buggy that way.
<andrew____> is there a way to restart xorg?
<sbalneav> ctl-alt-backspace
<andrew____> just recovered from an xorg.conf error...the driver change I made was not kosher.
<andrew____> now trying to install x11vnc on the client...can't find package.
<willvdl> aargh, kubuntu file sharing has just dropped 300 files into the ether
<willvdl> never to be seen again
<RichEd> "where do you want your files to go today ?" ;)
<RichEd> hope they did not represent too much lost work / info
<willvdl> RichEd, I was backing up documentation
* jsgotangco hugs osx
<jsgotangco> ooppss
<willvdl> not a lot of work lost but I just don't know how this is possible
<RichEd> me wonders why jsgotangco is hugging his mispelt socks ?
<willvdl> copied stuff across SAMBA to 2nd pc. turned off pc over night, this morning the folder is gone
<jsgotangco> ;-)
* willvdl is feeling technologically challenged
<willvdl> it's not a pretty thing when the universe decides to conspire against you :)
<t94xr> universe?
<t94xr> just the samba devs
<t94xr> everyone else couldnt careless
<willvdl> thanks
<willvdl> I feel better now
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<willvdl> heh
<highvoltage> (I owed you two others)
<willvdl> dude, webserver is up on dapper
<highvoltage> scwheet!
<willvdl> just thought I'd let you know
* highvoltage logs in to verify
<willvdl> scwheet?
<highvoltage> willvdl: "nice". you're getting old :)
<willvdl> that's the sound a fridge makes when you drag it along a tiled floor
<highvoltage> Description:    Ubuntu 6.06.1 LTS
<highvoltage> aaaaah, that's much better
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'll ping you over the weekend to show you the changes
<willvdl> isa nicah
<willvdl> let me know if there's anything I can help with
<willvdl> even if onlt verification
<highvoltage> willvdl: will do, the more eyes we have on it, the better
<willvdl> can't wait :) looking forward to updating our info
<jonnoob> I need help with changing my local device(USB) to use ISO-8859-15 instead of UTF-8. Can anybody help?
<JokeR-> hello everyone
<JokeR-> i need help
<JokeR-> i request ubuntu's cd before 3-4 weeks and yesterday i received the package. i put the cd in the cd-rom then i reboot. when it loaded i choose start or install ubuntu but it write me back some error and the pc reboot itself
<JokeR-> (sorry for my bad english)
<`6og> JokeR-, what error?
<JokeR-> dont know it writes "Loading" and afterthat a small dialog box appears where the only one option is reboot
<`6og> unless you can give us more details, we probably cant help
<jonnoob> can't anybody help me with getting USB-memory to work with non-ascii characters?
<JokeR-> `6og
<jonnoob> huh?
<RichEd> jonnoob: can you ask in #ubuntu ? there are more techiies around there and it is not edubuntu specific is it ?
<JokeR-> now im trying to load the cd from windows but it appears a dialog box "Start2.exe - application Error. The application failed to initializa properly (0xc0000006). Click on OK to terminate the application"
<jonnoob> Sure.. No problem...
<JokeR-> `6og any ideas?
<`6og> JokeR-, what on earth are you trying to use to install?
<JokeR-> ubuntu 7.04
<`6og> JokeR-, i dont understand why you are running an exe
<JokeR-> i told u
<JokeR-> i had tried to boot the cd
<JokeR-> but it doesnt work
<JokeR-> `6og
<JokeR-> http://i13.tinypic.com/4l770d4.jpg http://i19.tinypic.com/664c8dx.jpg http://i17.tinypic.com/4tawl1w.jpg
<JokeR-> see
<`6og> JokeR-, select the 'check cd for defects' option, and the 'memory test' options (one at a time)
<JokeR-> okay
<ath> I am looking to set up a server for our small high school
<ath> I have just begun to investigate edubuntu and I am stuck on some things.  I was wondering if comeone could help out
<ath> I have never used irc before, how does this work, am I doing it right?
<stgraber> ath: maybe I can
<ath> thank you for trying
<ath> I installed edubuntu on a virtual machine first off
<ath> now how do I get the thin clients to boot on the other machines?
<ath> Do I have to set the bios to boot into a network?
<stgraber> yes you have to
<stgraber> or if you can't you'll have to download a PXE boot floppy from rom-o-matic
<stgraber> on your edubuntu server you should have two network cards, the first one connected to the outdoor (wan/public lan) and the other on which a dhcp server will be set for the thin clients
<stgraber> then connect your clients to the second one and boot them on the network either by using the BIOS PXE option (boot on lan) or the floppy
<ath> is it necessary to have 2 network cards
<stgraber> it's easier but no it's not necessary
<stgraber> do you currently have a DHCP server installed on your network ?
<ath> no, i just have kubuntu desktop
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<ath> the ip addresses are controlled by the dhcp, is that the same?
<sbalneav> Hey stgraber
<sbalneav> ogra: you about dude?
<ath> thank you for your help stgraber, I have to go.
<stgraber> ok ... :)
<stgraber> ogra, sbalneav : Did you guys have found a fix for that nbd problem (Unable to mount the squashfs image) ?
<sbalneav> Yeah, I'm running into it myself
<stgraber> It's pretty weird, from what I understand and checked there is nothing wrong :)
<stgraber> just nbd-client which doesn't do its job
<sbalneav> the nbd-client within the chroot exececutes just seems to do nothing
<sbalneav> There was an update to the nbd tools a few days ago, notes seemed to be something about a new upstream version.
<sbalneav> I'm going to try and see if I can put strace into the chroot tonight, so I can strace nbd-client, and see what's happening.
<stgraber> sbalneav: Are we sure that's the nbd-client which is buggy ?
<stgraber> I tried connecting with feist's one and had the exact same result
<stgraber> and trying a telnet on port 2000 from my laptop gives : ** (process:13090): WARNING **: Could not parse config file: Could not open config file.
<sbalneav> Hm
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Well, I'll have a look
<sbalneav> Maybe it's the server side that's jiggered.
<sbalneav> That's easier to fix :)
<stgraber> yes :)
<stgraber> root@edubuntu:~# nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
<stgraber> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<LaserJock> that doesn't look good, and I don't even know anything about it ;-)
<stgraber> (core is empty)
<stgraber> sbalneav, ogra : It's definitely a bug of nbd-server 2.9.3-3, I've installed nbd-server_2.8.7-2ubuntu2 and it's working correctly
<sbalneav> stgraber: ok, that makes it easy
<sbalneav> Who's the maintainer for the nbd-server package?
<sbalneav> I'm almost wondering if our newly minted core developer might not take that one over.
<sbalneav> seeing as how we're pretty much the only project that's actually USING the nbd stuff
<LaserJock> StevenK last touched it in Ubuntu
<stgraber> Maintened by Wouter Verhelst (debian), uploaded by stevenk
<stgraber> LaserJock was faster ...
<sbalneav> I'll dig into it tonight when I get home.
<stgraber> would be great to have that fixed by Tuesday (first Tribe-2 candidate build)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You gonna be on later tonight?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> k, If I come up with some patches, I'll ping you
<LaserJock> ok
#edubuntu 2007-06-23
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> bdoin just left when I needed him
<sbalneav> LaserJock: man, nbd-server is COMPLETELY broken
<sbalneav> It's so utterly, utterly broken.
<sbalneav> In the entire history of broken, there's never been a broken more broken than nbd-server broken.
<sbalneav> If you look up "broken" in the dictionary, there's a picture of a dead nbd-server lying on the floor.
<`6og> sbalneav, is something not working?
<`6og> ;)
<sbalneav> Nah, everything's fine :)
<sbalneav> EXCEPT NBD-SERVER!!!!!!111oneone
<`6og> lol
<ath> could I ask somebody for help with edubuntu?
<ath> I am a little bit stuck
<sbalneav> Yes, I give you permission to ask.
<sbalneav> :)
<ath> haha
<ath> thanks
<ath> I am trying to get edu running for our small highschool
<ath> we have about 8 computers and I want them all networked to a server
<ath> I am trying to get edu working first on vmware server
<sbalneav> umm
<ath> and now I am trying to get the other machines to boot to the network.  The rom-o-matic thing is hard to do.  Do I have to open the box to see what kind of nic or is there a way of seeing the info in  ubuntu?
<sbalneav> What, if you boot ubuntu on the client?
<sbalneav> You can download a universal etherboot boot floppy
<sbalneav> http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
<ath> sorry, I am not being clear.  I installed edubuntu workstation thinking that it was the thin client.
<sbalneav> 
<ath> then I found out that you need to boot into the network
<sbalneav> So you have a server, right?
<ath> I do have a server on the server machine.. but I am running it in vmware server on my desktop
<sbalneav> So, the server machine's a "virtual" server, correct?
<ath> yes
<sbalneav> I don't know how well edubuntu's going to work from vmware, since I don't have vmware.
<sbalneav> However, depending on the client machines, they may already be able to boot off the network, depending on the machine.
<sbalneav> What kind of machines are they?
<ath> sempron processors, boxes put together in some guys little computer shop
<ath> they are fine for desktops, I am just tired of servicing all of them
<`6og> ath, semprons should pxe boot
<sbalneav> ok, you might want to look in the bios setup on those machines.  I'll wager they can PXE boot.
<sbalneav> If so, you don't need etherboot.
<ath> really?  Oh, I hope that is the case
<ath> if I am able to select pxe boot I shouldn't have to load anything else on the machine right?
<sbalneav> Yep!
<`6og> ath, if your pxe booting you dont need cd/hdd/floppy drives at all
<sbalneav> Now, whether or not you'll get them to SEE the virtual edubuntu machine's another matter entirely.
<ath> really?
<ath> I will have to tinker with this for the next few days.
<ath> thanks for helping me.  I'll come back later.
<`6og> as long as the virtual machine is not being firewalled out of action by the host, it should be fine
<ath> oh, I don't think it is.
<ath> the firewall on the router won't do it?
<`6og> dont know
<ath> ok, well thanks for now
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, that's no good
<LaserJock> coming in a little late
<sbalneav> Man, how can I revert to the previous version?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you can grab it off of Launchpad
<sbalneav> this completely and utterly breaks all of ltsp.
<LaserJock> will 2.8.7 work?
<sbalneav> Launchpad needs a "DEFCON5" setting. :)
<sbalneav> yeah, that was the previous version.
<LaserJock> I think that's called Critical ;-)
<LaserJock> do you want source of .debs?
<LaserJock> s/of/or/
<sbalneav> both, actually
<sbalneav> I'd love to dig into the code and find out.  What I need to see is if the UPSTREAM has hacked this out, or if wouter@debian's hozed us.
<sbalneav> bug filed.
<sbalneav> Now to look up upstream.  I think it's on kernel.org
<LaserJock> source is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1
<LaserJock> i386 .debs are: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1/+build/338868
<sbalneav> Cripes.
<sbalneav> It's right in upstream
<sbalneav> gaaahhh
<LaserJock> sbalneav: have you looked for a bug report in Debian?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you're up?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> isn't quite early there?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: a bit early for me for a Saturday... but strange things happen :)
<highvoltage> 8am
<LaserJock> feel like doing some bug triage? :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I only have about 20 minutes before I have to leave for an appointment, something I could do in that timespace?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if I can help with that later, please send me a ping, let me know what I can do
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I was just on an Edubuntu bug fixing kick today
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ah, ok. ogra resolved quite a bunch of them earlier this week, I'll go throught the list when I get back home and see how much is left and work through it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I did some website stuff last night, edubuntu.org is now on Drupal 5.1, and the https links work, and Matthew is in the US so he could at least get some colour scheme modifications for us
<highvoltage> we're basing on the Canonical.com theme instead of the Ubuntu.com one, it's better and has support for more stuff.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so when will it go live?
<LaserJock> ogra: I looked through all the gcompris bugs today and was able to close a few.
<`6og> could you use a sparc server with i386 chroots as an ltsp server?
<juliux> yes you can
<juliux> i installed ubuntu-server on a sparc
<`6og> interesting.
<juliux> then i installed the ltsp packages and i copied a i386er chroot from an i386er computer to the sparc
<juliux> its running fine
<juliux> but i only tested it with an old ultra 60 sparc
<`6og> i assume it doesnt support stuff like flash?
* `6og looks at his old sparcs in the rack
<`6og> workstation5 is probably the oldest there
<juliux> hm i didnt tested flash
<juliux> because it is not my sparc;) and i dont want to have the ultra6 sparc here at home
<`6og> hehe
<juliux> the sun monitor is to big for my desk
<`6og> wonder how netbsd runs on 32bit sparc, i want to use them for /something/
<`6og> lol
<rockprincess> hello all!
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<`6og> rockprincess, !!
<`6og> good to see you again!
<rockprincess> hi juliux and `6og!
<`6og> :)
<rockprincess> I've got a serious problem :(
<rockprincess> http://yapa.codein.at/?id=40 ... it's all explained here, maybe some of you know what causes it, I'm totally clueless
<juliux> rockprincess, did you try to run e2fsck /dev/hda7 ?
<rockprincess> juliux: not yet...because i have no idea what it actually does...I was worried that I could loose some data?!
<juliux> rockprincess, you als can try to run e2fsck -b 8103 /dev/hda7
<juliux> rockprincess, e2fsck is a programm to check/repair the filesystem
<`6og> rockprincess, what does `sudo fdisk -l` give?
<rockprincess> juliux: ohh i see, can I just run it in a terminal right now, or shall i boot into recovery mode?
<`6og> also `mount`
<juliux> re
<juliux> rockprincess, you can try it now
<juliux> rockprincess, at first e2fsck /dev/hda7
<juliux> if that not works with the -b 8139 option
<rockprincess> `6og: http://yapa.codein.at/?id=41 that's what sudo fdisk -l says
<`6og> rockprincess, the devices dont exist
<`6og> rockprincess, have you unplugged the drive/moved the sytem around?
<rockprincess> `6og: it does....it's inside my pc
<`6og> rockprincess, not to the kernel they dont
<juliux> rockprincess, i think best way is to reboot
<rockprincess> `6og: not at all.....that device is actually my kubuntu system for my other pc....but it has some important data, that i wanted to move to the new pc now...
<juliux> rockprincess, the you should get again the thing where it says there is an error press strg+d to reboot normal
<rockprincess> juliux: everytime i boot with this hd plugged in, this error message appears, when i go to fstab and uncomment these partitions, then the error message doesn't appear
<juliux> but this time you e2fsck in this "terminal"
<`6og> rockprincess, the kernel cant see the whole hdd anymore (hda). something must have caused it - drive dying, kernel update (perhaps), and a few other things could cuae it
<`6og> *cause
<`6og> rockprincess, does the file /var/log/fsck/checkfs exist?
<rockprincess> `6og: kernel update probably, because I installed ubuntu studio on the same hard drive as my edubuntu system (which i'm on at the moment)....
<rockprincess> `6og: checking if it exists....one second...
<rockprincess> `6og: it's there....
* `6og is wondering whether its worth looking ni the file for more details
<rockprincess> shall i pastebin it?
<`6og> juliux, what do you think?
<juliux> i think reboot the system, see what happen then
<rockprincess> `6og: that's my checkfs ... http://yapa.codein.at/?id=42
<juliux> if it tells you again that e2fsck fails run it manual
<juliux> then you get more errors
<rockprincess> ok good idea!
<juliux> fsck.ext3: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7 /dev/hda7)
<juliux> The superblock could not be read or does not describe a correct ext2 filesystem. If the device is valid and it really contains an ext2 filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate superblock:
<juliux> e2fsck -b 8193 <device>
<juliux> there is says everthing what you should do;)
<rockprincess> juliux: can i run it in the terminal, or shall i reboot? because if i ran it in the terminal, I could copy and paste the output whereas when I reboot i'd have to write it down?
<`6og> it forgets to meantion crossing your fingers ;)
<juliux> if you then start normal the device is not working because the kernel unplug it
<juliux> rockprincess, reboot pls,
<rockprincess> ok
<juliux> rockprincess, if you get this mainteance shell and you start then with strg+d normal you have no access on the partition
<rockprincess> is it risky? can i loose any data doing it?
<juliux> you shouldn loose any data
<rockprincess> yeah that's what I thought as well....
<rockprincess> ok, hopefully back in a few minutes....
<juliux> `6og, to come back to your sparc, what kind of sparc do you have?
<`6og> hehe.
<`6og> juliux, i have 8 or 9 'working', and half a dozen for parts
<`6og> juliux, sparcstation[5,10] , sparcstation10, sunblade 1[5,0] 0, 4x ultra5
<`6og> um, sparc*server*10
<juliux> cool
<juliux> if i have the money i want to buy a quad sparc ;)
<`6og> hehe.
<`6og> i just want a niagra, i dont care how many die's there are :)
<juliux> i think a quad sprac is a pretty good ltsp server;)
<`6og> hehe. pity it wouldnt make a good heater *needs heating atm*
<`6og> perhaps i need a Power6 system for winter, and a niagra for summer ;)
<juliux> hehe
<`6og> juliux, do you have much sparc gear yourself?
<juliux> a power4+ system is also good for the summer
<`6og> sparc or any not intel stuff
<juliux> i have no sparc;)
<`6og> i only have old G3 macs :(
<`6og> on ppc front
<`6og> ah :o go get some :P
<juliux> but a friend of me has around 20 ultra20 sparcs, and an ultra 60, ultra40
<`6og> 20? wth? he into clustering?
<juliux> his idea was to cluster them but he didnt do it since today
<juliux> he gets all the sparcs from the university for 10 each
<`6og> wow. why cant uni's in australia be like that :|
<`6og> that said, i've got some pretty funky kit from uni's
<`6og> juliux, are all your systems IA32/AMD64, or do you do 'alternative' stuff?
<rockprincess> back
<`6og> wb :)
<rockprincess> unfortunately e2fsck didn't work :(
<juliux> `6og,  i have a via epia system, and amd athlon xp 2400+, an pentium d and a core 2 duo
<juliux> rockprincess, did you try it with -b 8139 option?
<`6og> rockprincess, :S
<juliux> `6og, i have no space for alternative stuff and not realy time to play with it
<`6og> juliux, just the 4? cool :)
<rockprincess> juliux: yep.... root@rosasgasse: e2fsck -b 8193 /dev/hda7
<`6og> i understand the problem *g*
<rockprincess> juliux: it says e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7
<juliux> `6og, but if i get a job this summer i will buy a xeon dual for xen;)
<juliux> rockprincess, sounds not good
<juliux> rockprincess, did you e2fsck  in the maintance shell?
<`6og> rockprincess, can you pastebin dmesg (or email it to us/me)?
<rockprincess> juliux: yep, after hitting CTRL+D then it booted edubuntu
<`6og> dmesg |mail -s "dmesg output from `hostname`" karl@thehut.org.au
<rockprincess> `6og: sure
<juliux> rockprincess, so you try to run e2fsck bevor pressing crlt +d
<rockprincess> juliux: indeed
<juliux> rockprincess, hmm
<rockprincess> `6og: what shall insert for hostname?
<`6og> rockprincess, shell should do it for you
<`6og> if i got that right ;)
<juliux> rockprincess, you also can try to do it from a livecd
<juliux> rockprincess, because then is nothing running from the local harddisk
<rockprincess> it worked really fine before installing ubuntu studio (which obviously uses a different kernel version)
<juliux> rockprincess, did you try to boot another kernel?
<rockprincess> juliux: booted it with knoppix and it worked fine....and then booted this hd (hda) from my other pc with its kubuntu and it worked fine as well
<juliux> rockprincess, did you also try to use an other kernel? did you run e2fsck from a livecd?
<rockprincess> juliux: nope, haven't tried neither of them....these are the ubuntu studio kernels kernel 2.6.20-15-lowlatency and kernel 2.6.20-15-generic...and then there are the usual edubuntu edgy kernels 2.6.17-11-386 and 2.6.17-10-386
<juliux> rockprincess, try the normal edgy kernel
<juliux> rockprincess, it he ubuntustudio kernel are some flags set which are not set in a normal kernel
<rockprincess> i've tried the 2.6.17-11-386 one
<rockprincess> juliux: shall i try the 2.6.17-10-386 one now?
<juliux> so you allready tried an other kernel;)
<rockprincess> juliux: ahh, so it this (ubuntustudio kernel) the root of all evil? ;)
<juliux> rockprincess, could be
<juliux> i havent tested ubuntustudio
<juliux> but i think it is good to use an not ubuntustudio kernel
<rockprincess> juliux: i haven't tried it with 2.6.17-10-386 yet...
<juliux> it that the old edgy kernel?
<rockprincess> i assume
<juliux> you can give it a try
<rockprincess> will give it a try, if that fails then I'll try e2fsck once again...if that fails as well, then I will just remove the hda disk and just burn the important data on a cd or dvd....
<rockprincess> i really shouldn't have installed ubuntu studio....i regret it now...
<juliux> in the future use vmware for testing;)
<rockprincess> true, good idea!
<juliux> or use an extra pc for testing
<iTurtle> How can I convince my school to use edubuntu?
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, pongie
<sbalneav> hey
<ogra> yes i know nbd is broken :(((
<ogra> fiddling with it the whole day already
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> it seems to not run by inetd anymore
<sbalneav> no, I filed a bug
<sbalneav> It's like, horribly broken.
<ogra> but if i run it as standalone we miss out the keepalive stuff
<ogra> no, it works fine standalone
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> Running it standalone isn't,IMHO, a good options.
<sbalneav> upstream broke it.
<ogra> if they would have a proper keepalive option i'D use it like that
<ogra> but they dont
<sbalneav> We have two options, as I see it:
<sbalneav> 1) Revert from 2.9.3 to 2.8.mumble.
<ogra> 2.7
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> or 2) fix it ourselves, properly.
<ogra> err, no
<ogra> 2.8 was right
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> well
<sbalneav> Which do you prefer?
<ogra> if i would find why its not starting i'D ficx it
<ogra> its not very verbose
<sbalneav> I know why.
<ogra> tell me
<sbalneav> they've literally #if 0'd that part of the flipping code out!
<ogra> for port=0 ?
<sbalneav> he seems to have done a fairly major re-write of the code, and I'm just hazarding a guess, but looks like he was simply too (lazy, tired) to fix up that part
<sbalneav> so it's just broken,and commented out.
<ogra> is it broken ?
<ogra> did you try ?
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> it needs fixing
<ogra> meh
<sbalneav> It's certainly within my power to fix: it's not that complicated a program.
<ogra> reverting is bad ...
<ogra> we'd loose upstream security support
<sbalneav> Well, one supposes the idea would be to send it up to upstream
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> and say "look, you borked stuff we needed, here's the fix"
<sbalneav> So, should I work on that today?
<ogra> if you have an idea about it i'd really appreciate that
<sbalneav> Leave it with me.
<ogra> i'm around for an upload
<ogra> (somehow need to get tribe2 in shape as well)
<sbalneav> I've got lots of real life stuff to do, but I'll work on it this afternoon and evening.
<sbalneav> Try to have something for you tomorrow
<sbalneav> sigh
<ogra> dont put pressure on yourself please
<sbalneav> We really didn't need this complication :)
<ogra> nah, really not
<sbalneav> %&%(&^!& upstream :)
<ogra> i wouldnt have expected it at all after vagrants praise of wouter ad his improvements the last days
<sbalneav> ok, it's just coding.  Got a bit of time before the kids start demanding breakfast, I'll tear into it.
<ogra> but to be honest i dont see any improvements
<sbalneav> no
<ogra> its just complicating it
<sbalneav> he's done a ton of stuff to parse a ruddy config file you didn't need
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> the client has a -persist optin now btw
<ogra> undocumented
<ogra> it will automatically attempt a reconnect if the connection fails
<sbalneav> well, that's sorta useful.
<ogra> problem is that unionfs only likes that two or three times ... then i et a bus error
<ogra> *get
<ogra> else we could work with timeout on the server side and -persist on the client side
<ogra> that would give us keepalive from the static nbd-server+
<sbalneav> Lets fix it properly.  We need the inetd start for swapping to work right.
<sbalneav> i.e. create a file, etc.
<ogra> where the heck did you file the bug ? i dont find a bugtracker on sf.net
<sbalneav> oh, in launchpad
<sbalneav> against nbd-server
<ogra> ah. k
<ogra> dont care about swapping now ...
<ogra> its easier to do modifications for us if we use nbdrootd and nbdswapd
<ogra> so i'd like to keep the setup we have ... which means we can keep the file creation in nbdswapd
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> So, we just need to fix nbd-server :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> btw your new greeter is awesome
<sbalneav> fixing :)
<sbalneav> which, the one that listens to stdin?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i dont understand why the propmt text is so far off though
<ogra> you didnt drop any adjustment for it but its not centered
<sbalneav> You looked at it?  I don't have anything in ldm yet to talk to it, but I was quite proud of how quickly I managed to get that working
<sbalneav> hm
<ogra> i wonder if it was just a matter of luck that it fitted in my code
<sbalneav> Well, I'll figure it out.
<sbalneav> Some guy on #gtk+ gave me exactly what I needed, then it was easy
<ogra> its a trivial one liner to add an adjustment ... i just wonder wh it worked before
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> there's a LOT of things that still confuse me about gtk
<ogra> really ?
<sbalneav> I spent 15 minutes with a pad of paper drawing boxes, trying to figure out all the vbox, hbox, vbox2, etc.
<sbalneav> yeah, I'm leaning fast.
<ogra> heh, yeah, thats the hard part about gtk
<sbalneav> This is the first time I've ever done any graphics programming.
<sbalneav> I'm not a UI guy :)
<ogra> but beyond layout stuff i find it very easy
<sbalneav> One thing I'm getting by working on Ubuntu is an education :)
<ogra> heh
<andrew____> need advice on network setup...I'll have a mix of thin clients, Linux clients (fat), and windows clients...how can I get all of these to authenticate against the same userbase and file system?
<ogra> sbalneav, seen my bug update ?
<sbalneav> no
<ogra> seems vagrant already filed it for 2.7
<sbalneav> I'll look
<ogra> and it showed up accidentially in 2.8
<ogra> looks like upstream doesnt like inetd
<ogra> grmbl
<sbalneav> Upstream's gonna have to deal :)
<sbalneav> 'cuz *I* like inetd :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'd be fine either way ... if nbd-server gets a proper timeout function i'm fine as well
<sbalneav> how you gonna solve swap?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> point, sbalneav :)
<ogra> well tere are these new virtualization features ...
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> they just miss the file creation
<ogra> sigh ... i thought i'd get around doing the lawn ... now the sun comes out
* highvoltage prays that it rains in ogra's city
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> it did
<ogra> the last two days
<highvoltage> wow, my prayers can time travel
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> ok, gdb's given me some useful info
<sbalneav> think I know where to start
<sbalneav> I'm gonna go cook breakfast for the kids, I'll be on and off today.
<sbalneav> keep you posted.
<sbalneav> bye
<ogra> grmbl
* ogra sends a bug bucket full of hate to nbd upstream
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, quick question, it's looking like nbd-server's gonna need some major hacking.
<sbalneav> but, it would be much easier to pull out the bits we need, and make an nbd-server-inetd
<sbalneav> standalone package.
<sbalneav> Is this doable/sensible?
<stgraber> sbalneav: it would be easier, but not that quick as you'll have to upload it, will be short before Tribe-2
<andrew____> need help setting up LDAP...having trouble with some steps in the Ubuntu-provided tutorial
<andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-d4de697d4a73d6fdf483f46974c9c30f4e20f485
<stgraber> andrew____: I've set my home LDAP/Samba server long ago (Dapper) using this tutorial, maybe I can help
<stgraber> andrew____: what's exactly your problem ?
<andrew____> I'm at the "migrating data" section of the tutorial and the ldapadd commands hav been returning errors
<andrew____> first it was unhappy with the DN syntax.
<andrew____> I removed the double quotes around: ldapadd x -D cn=root,dc=yourdomain,dc=edu -W -f /tmp/base.ldif
<stgraber> your double quotes look strange to me : " is the correct ones
<andrew____>  ldapadd -x -D "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
<andrew____> Enter LDAP Password:
<andrew____> adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
<andrew____> Hmmm...this is what I get for copying from the web...
<andrew____> let me try that.
<stgraber> the ones in the second command you pasted seem to be correct, not the one you pasted before my comment
<andrew____> Now, where it says root, I'm substituting the LDAP administrator's username, correct?
<andrew____> When I use root, it says "invalid credentials"....when I use "andrew" (root user) it says:
<stgraber> yes
<andrew____>  adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
<stgraber> that's the LDAP root account, but it can be something different than root
<stgraber> it's manager here
<andrew____> Ok so I have the correct username, but it seems to not like the "object" which I don't understand enough to troubleshoot.
<stgraber> What's your DC ?
<stgraber> example.net ? Looks strange to me
<andrew____> example.net  is what I'm using.   I'm setting up a test server.
<stgraber> ok, is the ou Group created ?
<stgraber> otherwise you may have some problem creating a "root" object inside of it
<andrew____> I don't know....I've followed all the tutorial steps....how do I create an "ou"
<stgraber> ldapadd -x -D "cn=admin-account,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
<stgraber> is that what you have run ?
<stgraber> replacing admin-account by the right value of course
<andrew____> this is what I'm running, and getting adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
<andrew____> why is it replacing by admin-account with root? Is this normal?
<stgraber> I've put admin-account but it can be whatever you want, simply depends on the one you've put in your openldap config
<andrew____> right,  I'm typing "andrew" but in the error it gives back, it says: adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
<stgraber> http://www.openldap.org/faq/data/cache/157.html
<stgraber> Looking at google I get that
<stgraber> (sorry, the wiki page was completely different when I did my home install, so looking at how it's done here doesn't help me much)
<andrew____>  well, doing ldapsearch for the domain isn't working...
<andrew____> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49)
<andrew____>         additional info: SASL(-13): user not found: no secret in database
<stgraber> Seems like you have a problem with your user
<andrew____> In one of the .conf files?
<stgraber> check the rootdn and rootpw in your /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
<andrew____> rootdn "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrew____> rootpw {MD5}i6BhjLzBnwRu1ky1g36bEg==
<stgraber> hmm, so : ldapsearch -b 'dc=example,dc=net' -s base '(objectclass=*)' should work ...
<andrew____> do I need to be operating in the shell as andrew...I'm logged in at root
<andrew____> doesn't work when I'm logged in as andrew either...
<stgraber> andrew____: I'm affraid I'm not really able to help you on that one :(
<stgraber> you may want to join #ubuntu-server
<stgraber> maybe you'll see a LDAP pro there
<andrew____> Ok  thanks for your great effort!
<stgraber> no problem, sorry it didn't help you much ...
<Burgundavia> andrew____: still stuck with ldap?
<Burgundavia> lets see if we can get you going
<andrew____> Yes, stuck for about a week now.
<Burgundavia> so the ldap server is installed and up?
<andrew____> yes, I believe so.  How can I easily test?
<andrew____> It restarts fine.
<andrew____> And slaptest succeeds
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> where are you getting stuck at
<Burgundavia> ?
<andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-e21d7c98123fe571e292f75cec4e6ba77d97b8cf
<andrew____> migrating data
<Burgundavia> do you need samba?
<Burgundavia> ie: do you have Windows clients?
<Burgundavia> ok, wow, those instructions are somewhat crackish
<andrew____> I need samba and yes, I will have windows clients, linux clients, and thin clients
<andrew____> this is for a school network
<Burgundavia> I assume you used their config files
<andrew____> yes, though I changed the root username, dn, etc...
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> first thing
<Burgundavia> reinstall ldap
<Burgundavia> lets get rid of those config files
<Burgundavia> I don't trust any of them
<andrew____> OK
<Burgundavia> oh geez
<andrew____> shall I apt-get remove or use the dpkg approach (pardon my newness...I just started Linux a week ago)?
<Burgundavia> apt-get --purge remove
<andrew____> done for slapd, is this it?
<Burgundavia> it might be simpler to reinstlal
<andrew____> reinstall slapd?
<Burgundavia> no, reinstall the whole server
<Burgundavia> you have a bunch of randomly modified config files that I simply don't trust
<Burgundavia> and the instructions on that page don't exactly strike confidence in me
<andrew____> Can you point me towards a more trustworthy tutorial?  I just spent a week following various permutations of tutorials and this will be my fourth reinstall of the server...
<Burgundavia> honestly, no
<Burgundavia> I was just sighing at how bad our tutorials are
<Burgundavia> which is a fault I lay partly at my feet, as I didn't work on them
<andrew____> Well, I'm eager to get my school on Linux...but this learning curve has definitely tested my endurance...
<Burgundavia> you have hit probably one of the hardest bits of Linux
<Burgundavia> you have a nasty combination of ldap (which isn't very easy) and samba
<Burgundavia> I assume you currently run AD?
<andrew____> No,  we currently don't have a school.  It starts in september.
<Burgundavia> ahh
<andrew____> I'm trying to pursuade them to go open source, but I need a prototype.
<Burgundavia> yep
<stgraber> the best way to have LDAP working correcty is to really start step by step, starting by installing a clean LDAP server, then move the UNIX auth on it, the once ok, extend the LDAP schema to Samba specifc objects, then make Samba use them
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> exactly my thoughts
<andrew____> So far, I've got the thin client working...but I need to know I can do a mix of thin and thick, Linux and windows on the same network
<stgraber> following those tutorials which provide obscure scripts doing everything sometime works, but you don't understand what you are doing
<stgraber> and then won't be able to update your system or fix an eventual problem
<andrew____> I'd love to learn it...
<stgraber> andrew____: I'm currently doing that kind of install as a test in a classroom connected to that state/canton network
<Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication
<Burgundavia> that is for your Ubuntu clients to auth against
<Burgundavia> stgraber: mind fixing up https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer?highlight=%28open%29
<Burgundavia> it has been 6 months since I setup my last workplaces ldap server
<andrew____> I'm going to log off and reinstall ubuntu server on this machine...will log back on on the trusty laptop....
<stgraber> this OpenLDAPServer wiki page was one of the ones I used to set up my local LDAP server
<Burgundavia> stgraber: it needs some work
<andrupal> Back...formerly andrew____
<andrupal> So for a fresh server build, I've been using the ubuntu distro and then installing edubuntu server on top of it...does this make any sense?
<Burgundavia> are you comfortable with the commandline?
<andrupal> getting more so every day
<Burgundavia> then just install ubuntu server
<andrupal> I find editing files a bit awkard in commad line
<andrupal> Is "vim" the state of the art there?
<Burgundavia> basically
<Burgundavia> in that case, I would get the ubuntu desktop
<stgraber> andrupal: you may also like nano which can be easier to use or even the editor part of mc
<stgraber> those two are the ones I use on command line systems
<andrupal> nano is a different cmd line text editor?
<stgraber> yes
<andrupal> Now, as far as the thin client setup, edubuntu seems to make the process much easier...agreed?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> that is pretty much install and go
<andrupal> so you recommend ubuntu server, but don't I also need edubuntu server to get thin client functionality?
<andrupal> Eventually, I'm also going to want to authenticate a website against LDAP...I'm not barking up the wrong tree, am I?
<stgraber> I doubt that having all the services on the same server will be a good idea for a school, but technically you can of course install LDAP/DNS/Apache/... on the same server, that's just no recommended
<stgraber> having a website authenticating against LDAP is possible using php-ldap (if it's a php website) or a Apache module (never used it)
<stgraber> then using it either as the user DB for the website (php-ldap) or like the directory/file protection mechanism of Apache (http login) (with the apache module)
<andrupal> I'd likely put it on a different server...but could I use the same LDAP server for authentication, or mirror the LDAP server on an Apache server?
<andrupal> This would be a php site (Drupal)
<stgraber> oh, you can of course contact your LDAP server from another so no need to mirror it on the apache server
<andrupal> Cool...so this is single sign on for all services, as I hoped.  Now I just need to learn how the hell to do it.
<stgraber> I never had to but I'm sure you can auth against LDAP using drupal
<andrupal> So I've just reinstalled ubuntu server...now you're advising against adding edubuntu server
<stgraber> it's better to have a working terminal server (edubuntu) and then another server acting as domain server (ldap/samba/dns/apache)
<Burgundavia> yep
<stgraber> having all the users logged on the domain server isn't really a good idea I think :)
<Burgundavia> single sign on is easier said than done
<stgraber> I wouldn't like having 250 people having shell access to my ldap/samba/dns/apache server
<andrupal> I see...for now, can I emulate these both on the same machine, as a test setup?
<stgraber> you'll easily have : single login (same login/pass everywhere), single sign on also mean something like kerberos not to have to actually auth on all the services
<andrupal> single login is a good start.  I don't want to have to deal with unsynched accounts!  Nitemare.
<stgraber> indeed :) nothing worse than having 10th of different user DB :)
<andrupal> So I'm not going to install thin client this time around, but I assume you can set up LTSP to auth against LDAP as well...is this a non-standard deal?  Probably not a part of the base distro of edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> yes and yes
<Burgundavia> although there is work to make that easier
<andrupal> I've seen some docs kicking around in the development areas...can't wait!
<Burgundavia> I would take a separate computer and install the edubuntu classroom server
<Burgundavia> just to see how it is supposed to work and to give you confidence to start playing with LDAP again :)
<andrupal> Well, I had this working fine!   I loved it.
<LaserJock> anybody seen ogra lately?
<Burgundavia> on vacation?
<stgraber> LaserJock: last seen : 17:15 UTC
<LaserJock> moquist: around?
<andrupal> Presently, I don't have access to more than two machines for testing...so I'll have to learn piece by piece., unless I can use a laptop as a thin client.
<Burgundavia> you can
<Burgundavia> the nic might also network booting or you can use a boot disk/cd
<andrupal> But then I'll also need a hub...darn.
<Burgundavia> cross over would do it
<andrupal> let me check my own comprehension:  LDAP/Samba server needs two NICs, edubuntu classroom server needs two NICs, these are daisy chained together with the thin client?
<andrupal> In this config, on which server would something like content filtering take place...since that's what schools are required to do if they want a federal (US) subsidized t1 line?
<stgraber> the one connected to the internet
<stgraber> personally I'd do that :
<stgraber> First server connected to the internet and to the LAN (running DNS/Samba/Apache/LDAP/DHCP)
<stgraber> Second server connected to the LAN (can contact the other via its LAN interface) being the Edubuntu terminal server
<stgraber> Thin clients connected to the LAN as the Edubuntu server is
<stgraber> then as everything as to go through the first server, you install the content filtering proxy on it (privoxy+squid or something like that, doing caching+filtering)
<andrupal> So any given classroom can have its own terminal server and still authenticate against LDAP and have student files stored centrally?
<stgraber> yes, as any computer on the LAN can contact the two servers
<stgraber> but not the Internet
<stgraber> everything has to go through the first server
<stgraber> on the LAN you can connect your thin, fat and windows client
<andrupal> But file storage...that can remain centralized despite multiple terminal servers...
<stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ Does this look ok for you ?
<stgraber> I'd suggest to store files on the first server
<Burgundavia> I have actually never gone past installing LTSP
<Burgundavia> and have actually never installed Edubuntu
<stgraber> and then access those data from the Terminal Server, Fat clients or Windows clients
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I got it to work in VMware the other day
<stgraber> (you can use Samba for that part)
<LaserJock> it's actually pretty cool
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: get which working?
<stgraber> LaserJock: oh yes, VMWare is really great to test that kind of stuff :)
<andrupal> Is it preferable to run multiple client servers at the classroom level?  It seems some of the thin client manager could be very useful to the instructor...not so useful locked away in the server room.
<stgraber> LaserJock: I've a complete copy of my state/canton network here :) Two Win2003 enterprise, 1 WinXP pro workstation, two thin clients, 1 Edubuntu server and 1 Ubuntu server :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: all running on my laptop at the same time :)
<stgraber> andrupal: the thin client manager can be launched from any of the thin clients IIRC
<stgraber> andrupal: you can have the Edubuntu server in a rack in the server room and then manage your network from any of the thin clients
<stgraber> andrupal: all depends on the kind of hardware you'll have
<andrupal> OK...so this is just a matter of giving account privileges to teachers.
<stgraber> andrupal: if you have very very fast servers with a lot of RAM, you can have one or two for a school
<stgraber> otherwise a per classroom server can be an idea
<stgraber> andrupal: yes
<andrupal> What is very very fast...we're in the market now...need to make good decisions.
<stgraber> andrupal: it's basically putting them into the admin and adm group
<stgraber> How many clients will you have ?
<andrupal> 45 thin , 15 wireless laptops, 10 or so thick   (the laptops and thick clients will likely be windows)
<andrupal> This needs to scale up by roughly that many each year.
<stgraber> You'd need something like 5GB of RAM for 45 thin, about the CPU there aren't any amount per client on the wiki
<stgraber> but something like a quad-CPU dual-core would be ok I think
<stgraber> Burgundavia, LaserJock : One of you know better than I do ?
<stgraber> it'll also mainly depends on what you are going to run
<Burgundavia> there is a formula somewhere
<stgraber> Burgundavia: yes, I just can't find it :)
<Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<andrupal> Well, we'll also need to have Windows client access...how complicated does this make things...?
<stgraber> I can find for the RAM (100-150)
<stgraber> andrupal: what do you mean by Windows client access ?
<andrupal> Ability to run windows software...much of ed software is windows only...
<stgraber> Burgundavia: that's for RAM, not the CPU :(
<Burgundavia> cpu is less important
<andrupal> I've seen case studies where LTSP has a windows emulator in it, somehow.
<stgraber> andrupal: ok, at this point you have two possiblity : first one try using wine (good luck), second have an external Windows Terminal Server
<stgraber> and then access it with rdesktop
<stgraber> (that's what I did here, as wine wasn't working ... but I don't know how expensive the Windows 2003 licence can be ...)
<andrupal> Apparently you pay per client!
<stgraber> argh
<stgraber> well, you basically have only one client don't you ? :) that's the Edubuntu server :)
<andrupal> Perhaps we can make that case...
<stgraber> you'll first want to test using wine, see how much RAM/CPU it takes and if it works as with Windows
<stgraber> if wine isn't an option, you'll need to investigate the Terminal Server option
<andrupal> So it sounds like we'll need 3 servers:  DNS,  Client, and Windows...  plus another backup?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> expensive ones being the Edubuntu and the Windows ones
<stgraber> DNS/LDAP/Apache/... ones isn't that ressource expensive and so does the backup one (except the HDD/Tapes)
<andrupal> Well, if we're hosting a php website on the DNS server, is that resource intensive?
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> I've a Samba/LDAP/Apache/MySQL/DNS/Backup/Print server on a 1Ghz server here :)
<andrupal> OK  ubuntu server and desktop have finally installed.   Now to LDAP...
<stgraber> only the DB part (MySQL/PostgreSQL) can be resource intensive, but that depends on the number of people connecting to the website, if that's an internal website that means a maximum of 70 people on it
<stgraber> and usually the problem with the DB server is more the amount of RAM than the CPU
<andrupal> This is a school portal...somewhat query intensive though not super high usage...
<stgraber> if you put 1GB you won't have any problem (and I think that's the minimum you can have now :))
<andrupal> this is quite helpful!
<stgraber> my dedicated server running the Ubuntu ISO testing website + 5 other website is running with only 256MB of ram :)
<stgraber> and it also does SSL
<stgraber> so you'll be ok with 1GB I think
<andrupal> so I'd like to install LDAP now, I think...apt-get install slapd?
<stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ now it's your turn :)
<andrupal> stgraber, you've been a huge help...thanks for chatting it up!
<stgraber> andrupal: no problem, I agree that we should post more about real install done in different school, what they used, how they installed, ...
<stgraber> andrupal: that way people won't have to do all the research again and again
<andrupal> We'd be happy to serve as a case study.  High profile magnet school in NYC...affiliate with Columbia.  Could be a good plug for y'all...stay tuned.
<stgraber> argh, seems like Burgundavia is busy :)
<stgraber> ok, so install slapd
<stgraber> I'm booting a virtual Ubuntu server
<stgraber> andrupal: ^
<andrupal> yes
<andrupal> slapd installed
<stgraber> ok, so it asked for an admin password ?
<andrupal> yes, I gave it
<stgraber> ok, now lets open /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
<stgraber> update the dc (you should have to change it at 3 different places)
<andrupal> anything should work, right...I'm using dc=example dc=net
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> the default LDAP root account is "admin"
<andrupal> yes...shall I change this to my account name, as I am root?  or do I misunderstrand
<stgraber> no, it's just that the admin login for LDAP will be cn=admin,dc=example,dc=net
<stgraber> that's no problem
<stgraber> now check your /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
<stgraber> it should point to your LDAP server (localhost or something like that)
<stgraber> (here it doesn't as I've this VM configured as LDAP client for the state network)
<andrupal> how to check?  slaptest?
<andrupal> slaptest succeeds
<stgraber> it doesn't work correctly here, give me minute to investigate
<ogra_> sbalneav, yes, thats fine, if its a patch to the current nbd-server package and we can split out a separate binary from the nbd sourecpackage
<ogra_> if ts a rewrite and duplicates the source thats a no go
<andrupal> stgraber I will need to return to this later in evening or tomorrow...when are you likely around?
* ogra_ dives back into his hole
<stgraber> andrupal: tomorrow during the whole day (I'm UTC+2) so from 8 UTC to 2UTC
<stgraber> hmm, more 12 UTC to 2 UTC
<stgraber> argh nope :)
<stgraber> some timezone problem tonight ...
<stgraber> 8 UTC to 22 UTC
<stgraber> :)
<andrupal> OK...well I'll be back tomorrow.  Hope to see you.  Again, many thankx.
<stgraber> np, see you
#edubuntu 2007-06-24
<andrupal> anyone around who can provide some guidance through a fresh LDAP installation?  I've been getting stuck and falling down rabbit holes in poorly written tutorials for the past week...I need a samba client authentication setup that will work with thin, thick and windows clients.
<Burgundavia> hello again
<andrupal> Howdy...perfect, it's you!
<Burgundavia> alright
<andrupal> I've got a clean server install, and have just done apt-get install slapd
<Burgundavia> ok
<andrupal> I began editing slapd.conf, changing the with the dc info
<Burgundavia> did debconf not ask you for basic information?
<Burgundavia> sudo dpkg-reconfigure slapd
<Burgundavia> try that
<andrupal> OK...I'm not omitting, Q1, correct?
<Burgundavia> q1?
<andrupal> It asks "Omit OpenLDAP server configuration?"  I'm replying No
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> no is the correct answer
<Burgundavia> geez, I need to setup this myself
<Burgundavia> it has been so long
<andrupal> it asks for DNS domain name and automatically fills in earthlink.net, my ISP...I assume I should change this to something else...in previous installs I've been using "example.net" since this is just a test server.
<Burgundavia> no, leave that
<andrupal> leave earthlink.net  it says it will use this to construct the base DN of the LDAP directory.  I want this called earthlink.net?
<andrupal> Hundreds of thousands of new yorkers have earthlink.net as their ISP...it seems odd to use this as my LDAP base DN...
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> let me run through the questions on my machine
<andrupal> It asks which database backend to use: BDB or HDB ...BDB is what I have done on previous installs.  Ok I'll let you catch up.  I recognize this is detailed stuff.
<Burgundavia> right, ok
<Burgundavia> so for the dns one, fill in example.net
<Burgundavia> for the org, fill in example
<andrupal> how can I go back?
<andrupal> I just ran dpkg again...
<Burgundavia> run it again
<andrupal> Do I want the database to be removed when purged? I'm saying yes, for now...
<andrupal> ALlow LDAPvs protocol.  I've said no in previous installs...
<Burgundavia> say no
<Burgundavia> ldap v2 is dead
<andrupal> Unfortunately the first config process seems to have created a backup that prevents the old database from being moved...the process says "giving up"
<andrupal> Shall I delete the file that's getting in the way?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> you should now be up and running
<andrupal> rm -r removes a directory, no?
<Burgundavia> yes, but you should be very careful
<Burgundavia> might be better to purge slapd
<andrupal> how again?  apt-get purge slapd
<andrupal> ?
<Burgundavia> --purge remove
<andrupal> same problem...old backup exists...process gives up
<Burgundavia> huh?
<andrupal> Ok I removed the directory that was giving the error and dpkg runs fine, with successful output
<Burgundavia> ok
<andrupal> slaptest succeeds
<andrupal> I've gotten this far before, however...we're not to the hard stuff yet.
<Burgundavia> well, now all you need to do is populate it
<andrupal> Ok  how is this done?
<Burgundavia> ldap uses what is called an ldif file
<Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer
<Burgundavia> I would just create one account via a text file as per that page and then slapadd it
<andrupal> I should use the dummy file provided?
<andrupal> OK I just used the dummy file and saved as init.ldif on my desktop
<andrupal> Shall I follow the instructions that follow the init.ldif file provided on the link you provided?
<Burgundavia> no, that is too much
<Burgundavia> just create a single user
<andrupal> So delete everything except one entry that has "ou=people" in it?
<Burgundavia> no, you need to add a single person
<Burgundavia> a person starts with the line:
<Burgundavia> dn: uid=lionel,ou=people,dc=example,dc=com
<andrupal> OK...so I'm deleting everything except this part of the ldif file.
<Burgundavia> sorry, have to run
<Burgundavia> look at how the ldif file is constructed and make a similar file
<andrupal> OK no problem...I'll continue with this tutorial...Thanks for your help!
<Burgundavia> don;t follow that wiki page exactly
<Burgundavia> after you have added somebody, try and setup a client to auth against the ldap server
<andrupal> The client needs configuration as well...no?  Can you point to reliable documentation on this?
<andrupal> I'm getting an error using slapadd...value of naming attribute 'uid' is not present in entry.   The init.ldif file has a uid, however...
<andrupal> ldapsearch returns ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s:  Can't contact LDAP server (-1)
<andrupal> ldapsearch returns "ldap_bind: Can't contact LDAP server (-1)" error...help anyone
<sbalneav> Big topic you need help with there.
<sbalneav> How about you tell me a little about what you've got set up?
<andrupal> Just went through a clean server install, clean slapd install.  Ran dpkg. Attempted to populate using an ldif file...can't search LDAP
<andrupal> slaptest succeeds
<andrupal> tutorials all say different things about how to approach setup...I was following Burgundavia's lead but he had to go...
<sbalneav> what does your /etc/ldap/ldap.conf file look like?
<sbalneav> Paste it to the pastebin
<andrupal> Where's the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<andrupal> Ok see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26960/
<sbalneav> that's the slapd.conf
<andrupal> woops.
<sbalneav> It's ok, we'll need it too :)
<andrupal> Ok see  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26961/
<andrupal> I'm now seeing that example.com is an error...this should be example.net to match slapd.conf, no?
<sbalneav> Should be NEITHER example.com or example.net.
<sbalneav> Should be YOUR domain name :)
<andrupal> Yes,  in this case I'm running a test server, example.net
<sbalneav> You're talking the rootdn?
<andrupal> I guess...I've been consistently using example.net throughout LDAP setup...the machine name is UBUNTU, however...that's not the issue though, right?
<sbalneav> In your ldap.conf, what's your URI set to?
<andrupal> It was  ldap://ldap.example.com ldap://ldap-master.example.com:666
<andrupal> now com = net
<sbalneav> That's going to try to contact the host ldap.example.com
<andrupal> so I should take our ldap
<andrupal> out
<sbalneav> Where's the ldap server running, on the same machine?
<andrupal> Yes
<sbalneav> If so, you'll probably want a URI like ldap://localhost
<andrupal> why are there two entries?
<andrupal> should I remove the 2nd, with port?
<sbalneav> Failover.  If you have multiple ldap servers for redundancy, it will try one, then the other.
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> since you've only got one ldap server
<andrupal> Ok with changes I'm still getting ldap_bind: Can't contact server (-1)
<sbalneav> you still haven't actually pasted your ldap.conf file to the pastebin.
<sbalneav> Oh, wait
<sbalneav> you did, missed it.
<andrupal> It's different now...
<sbalneav> They still got the # in front of URI and BASE?
<andrupal> Snikes!
<andrupal> Ok removed #
<sbalneav> That should help somewhat
<andrupal> ;)
<andrupal> still getting the error
<andrupal> does slapd.conf need my password?
<sbalneav> Can't contact server means it isn't even getting connected
<sbalneav> Is slapd running?
<sbalneav> ps -ef | grep slapd
<sbalneav> should have probably 4 of them
<andrupal> it outputs root  12445 9398 0 22:44 pts/0    00:00:00 grep slapd
<sbalneav> So, your slapd isn't running
<andrupal> Yet I get no errors when I start it?
<sbalneav> how are you starting it?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so what did you do to fix nbd?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Turned out to be easier than I thought.
<sbalneav> it's prolly a 4 line patch.
<LaserJock> oh, nice
<sbalneav> What's the BEST way to produce a patch to send to you?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: debdiff is nice
<sbalneav> Keeping in mind that I'm good at coding, but NOT good at packaging things, how would I go about doing that?
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> I'm sure my motu-and-main-friend can gimme a quick pointer :)
<sbalneav> andrupal: How are you starting slapd?
<andrupal> using init.d
<sbalneav> Try this:
<sbalneav> invoke-rc.d slapd start
<LaserJock> sbalneav: quick version: get source packge, make changes, add changelog entry with dch -i, then debuild -S to create new source package
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> version should be 1:2.9.3-3ubuntu1 and gutsy the release in the changelog
<LaserJock> I gotta run an errand
<LaserJock> I'll be back in a little bit
<andrupal> sbalneav:  tried it, no difference in grep results
<sbalneav> LaserJock: ok
<sbalneav> ping me
<sbalneav> andrupal: ok, so, something's not kosher with your slapd setup.
<sbalneav> First, go have a look in either /var/log/messages, or /var/log/daemon.log
<sbalneav> if slapd's unhappy with something, it should be in there.
<andrupal> neither log shows anything recent...
<andrupal> should I purge and reinstall slapd?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Hmm
<sbalneav> take a look in /var/log/syslog
<andrupal> Ok there it is...
<andrupal> Hang on...I need to log into chat on the same machine...
<andrew____> Andrew is same as andrupal
<andrew____> Here's the log message: Jun 23 22:51:55 ubuntu slapd[12665] : @(#) $OpenLDAP: slapd 2.3.30 (Dec 13 2006 15:54:43) $ ^Ibuildd@palmer:/build/buildd/openldap2.3-2.3.30/debian/build/servers/slapd
<andrew____> Nothing else shows up relevant to ldap
<sbalneav> anything in /var/lib/ldap?
<andrupal> it's a directory full of files
<sbalneav> Did you do an initial slapadd?
<andrupal> Yes, using an ldiff file..I think some of them took, though there were errors...
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> blow away everything in /var/lib/ldap
<sbalneav> re-run the slapadd
<sbalneav> and paste me the errors you get.
<Burgundavia> yay for ldap
<andrew____> #/etc/ldap/slapd.conf: line 102: rootdn is always granted unlimited privileges.
<andrew____> #/etc/ldap/slapd.conf: line 119: rootdn is always granted unlimited privileges.
<andrew____> #Error, entries missing!
<andrew____> # entry 1: dc=example,dc=net
<andrupal> Ok  fixed slapd.conf
<sbalneav> Hmmm, big thunderstorm going on here.
<sbalneav> If I drop offline, that's what it is.
<andrew____> see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26966/ for new errors
<andrew____> OK having deleted all from /var/lib/ldap, the only error I get is Error, entries missing!
<andrew____>   entry 1: dc=example,dc=net
<sbalneav> You have to re-blow away everything in /var/lib/ldap again
<andrupal> OK I got ldapadd to run without error...now an ldapsearch for one of these users yeilds same ldap_bind: Can't contact LDAP server
<sbalneav> is slapd running?
<andrupal> No, grep gives same as before
<sbalneav> Have you tried to re-start it?
<andrupal> just did
<sbalneav> So, it's still not running.
<sbalneav> until you get that fixed, ldap search is not going to work
<andrupal> no...but also no error upon restart
<sbalneav> What's in /etc/default/slapd?
<andrew____> See http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26967/
<sbalneav> Do this: which slapd
<andrew____> returns # /usr/sbin/slapd
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> /usr/sbin/slapd
<sbalneav> we'll run it directly from the command line
<sbalneav> What does that do?
<andrew____> root     13972     1  0 23:33 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/slapd
<andrew____> root     13977  9398  0 23:33 pts/0    00:00:00 grep slapd
<sbalneav> ok
<andrew____> is what grep returns
<sbalneav> so, now you got a running slapd
<andrew____> whew...what a grunt.
<sbalneav> Lets leave the fact that there's something wrong with your init script
<sbalneav> and see if your ldapsearch runs now
<andrew____> yippee...searching my name gives me back my info!
<sbalneav> Well, we've still got the problem of why your slapd isn't working
<sbalneav> properly
<andrew____> (aside: Is there something wrong only with MY init script, or is this a bug, perhaps...? )
<andrew____> Now what?
<sbalneav> I doubt it's a but
<sbalneav> bug
<sbalneav> probably a step that got missed somewhere
<sbalneav> lets do this
<sbalneav> pkill slapd
<sbalneav> then edit /etc/default/slapd
<sbalneav> edit the line that says: SLAPD_USER="openldap"
<sbalneav> make it look like:
<sbalneav> SLAPD_USER=""
<sbalneav> then lets see if you can start it with invoke-rc.d slapd start
<andrew____> ok, done
<andrew____> grep gives
<andrew____> root     14126     1  0 23:38 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/slapd -g openldap
<andrew____> root     14137  9398  0 23:38 pts/0    00:00:00 grep slapd
<sbalneav> try your ldapsearch now
<andrew____> works
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> congrats, you're working
<andrew____> !!
<andrew____> This is a huge help...as far as a roadmap for setting up samba, I've seen a few tutorials around...does Ubuntu have anything worth following?
<sbalneav> Off the top of my head, I dont know
<sbalneav> Google is your friend.
<andrew____> Yes...I thought so...but then I spent a week following tutorials that didn't work
<sbalneav> There's lots of good info out there, but every ldap setup's slightly different.
<sbalneav> There's no "do this and everything will work" tutorial out there, that I've ever seen.
<sbalneav> Single sign-on's a big, complicated topic :()
<andrew____> Yes...it doesn't help that I'm totally new to Linux...a bit kamikaze...I'm fumbling around in the dark and learning quite a lot as I go...but not gracefully!
<sbalneav> You're doing thin client as well?
<andrew____> That's the hope.  I've had that working on its own...but I'll need to authenticate it against LDAP
<sbalneav> So, lemme get this straight, you're new to linux, and decided to pick arguably the two most COMPLICATED end user tasks, thin client and ldap, to do first? :)
<sbalneav> Dude, run it as a desktop for a few months, at least, get your feet wet :)
<sbalneav> No rush, we'll still be here :)
<andrew____> That's what the job calls for...it's a school network and I've got to make some decisions about whether to really try going for Open Source or stick to the safety of Windows GUIs
<andrew____> This is a big test to see how feasible it all is...I'm taking the summer to backtrack and really learn what the hell I'm doing...
<sbalneav> I converted my organization 7 years ago to Linux on the desktop.  Trust me, it's feasible :)
<sbalneav> We use ldap
<sbalneav> Do you have Active Directory now?
<Burgundavia> ldap has a nasty learning curve
<sbalneav> it does
<andrew____> No infrastructure at all...actually.  We're just starting up.
<Burgundavia> where do you live?
<sbalneav> Ah, well then, if you're just starting up, and don't have any windows boxen, then you won't need samba
<sbalneav> How many desktops are you planning on supporting?
<andrew____> 45 thin clients, 15 laptops, 10 desktops
<andrew____> I'm inside the NYCDOE and the larger network is Windows centric...we can't even buy machines without it pre-installed!
<sbalneav> Well, for thin clients, you won't need to buy new
<sbalneav> Betcha the school division has a "used computer" reclaimation centre?
<andrew____> we've already got some great Optiplex G270s being donated by Columbia...
<sbalneav> What are they, pentium II's?
<andrew____> Pentium 4!  Is this a waste of a machine?
<sbalneav> Um, yeah :)
<sbalneav> I got 165 desktops that are 500mhz celeron-equiv
<andrew____> So we should run these as thick clients instead?
<sbalneav> they're via edens.
<sbalneav> Well, if that's what you got, they'll make great thin clients.  The REAL savings with a thin client's in the lack of management.
<sbalneav> But you can get away with a lot less.
<sbalneav> Anything Pentium II 600 or better is going to do great.
<andrew____> Yes, that was the draw for me...that and the centralized desktop control in the classroom...being a teacher.
<andrew____> These puppies even have gigabit ethernet.
<sbalneav> I guess what I'm saying is, if it's a case of getting 20 of the P4's or a 100 of a PII, go for the 100 :)
<andrew____> Right...I don't think we have those choices...but I love the idea of working with students to refurbish and recycle old machines.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: back from your errand?
<andrew____> this is a math, science, and eng school.
<sbalneav> Ah, lots of good stuff for you then.  What the heck's the name of the OSS program that's like Mathematica?  Hmmm.
<sbalneav> There's also a GNU stats pack program
<andrew____> I'll keep poking around...I've been playing with much of the ed freeware, and thus far it seems kind of hit or miss...to be expected I guess.  I'm interested in TI Labview but they make you pay gads for it, even the Linux version...
<andrew____> I need to go to bed, but I thank you profusely for your help...great to have this channel!  Will definitely be back..hopefully I'll help another...far in the future.
<sbalneav> No problem.
<andrew____> Cheers!
<sbalneav> You'll find me here and in #ltsp
<sbalneav> cheers
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I am for a sec
<sbalneav> hey hey
<LaserJock> were you able to get a debdiff
<sbalneav> ok, I did the debbuild -uc -us -S
<LaserJock> k
<sbalneav> What next
<LaserJock> debuild <oldpackage>.dsc <newpackage>.dsc
<LaserJock> sorry, debdiff
<sbalneav> Puuurty
<sbalneav> Mail that to you?
<LaserJock> yep
<sbalneav> addy?
<LaserJock> mantha at ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> brb
<sbalneav> sent
<Burgundavia> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1118
<sbalneav> Well, it's been a long day weeding the garden, and fixing nbd
<sbalneav> night all
<LaserJock> bah, just missed him
<Burgundavia> hmm, Userful finally turned off my email and remote access
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: what do you make of that zdnet article?
<Burgundavia> somebody got sucked in to test stuff
<Burgundavia> nothing much
* ogra_ smiles http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
<sbalneav> Morning
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
<ogra> sbalneav, hey hey :)
<ogra> any news on the nbd front ?
<sbalneav> Fixed
<ogra> really ?? o_O
<ogra> woah
<sbalneav> Sent off a debdiff to LaserJock last night
<sbalneav> But I forgot something
<ogra> hmm, no upload
<sbalneav> In nbdrootd
<sbalneav> you need to change the nbd-server line to:
<ogra> thats ltsp side
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> nbd-server 0 $1 -C /dev/null > /dev/null 2>&1
<sbalneav> the -C /dev/null is to give it an empty config file
<sbalneav> the redirect to /dev/null's because then it barfs out a glib "WARNING: empty config file bla blah"
<happywithed> Hello there
<sbalneav> since inetd just uses socket 0 (stdin) and internally, the program closes stdou, and stderr, you can just ignore the warings.
<sbalneav> that fixes the problem.
<sbalneav> And Wouter's off my christmas card list this year :)
<happywithed> Is it possible to connect an edubuntu desktop with the NFS and LDAP installed in the classroom server?
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> ogra: Cool on the hal!  What'd you have to do for that?
<ogra> sbalneav, well, if he adds it upstream you can add him back ;)
<ogra> sbalneav, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27019/
<happywithed> I have a classroom setup with 15 light clients, but would like to connect an additional edubuntu desktop
<happywithed> sbalneav: how do I do that?
<happywithed> I am running Feisty Fawn on both the classroom server and the desktop
<ogra> sbalneav, if hal wouldnt be so ugly to have on clients, we could just punt the output of lshal from the client through the tunnel into the servers hal ... and omit the /dev and sysfs entries, that way we have access to all info
<sbalneav> happywithed: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication should get you started
<sbalneav> ogra: Yeah, we'll need to properly get HAL going on the clients eventually.
<ogra> thats no prob
<ogra> just install it :)
<happywithed> sbalneav: thanks, I'll check it out.  How about the NFS? Any pointers there?
<ogra> with the unionfs it will run like a charm
<ogra> but its eating ram :/
<sbalneav> happywithed: Google is your friend.  Add you /home dir to /etc/exports on the server, then an fstab entry on the "client" to mount it.
<sbalneav> I'm pretty happy with the nbd thing.
<ogra> its tempting to be able to just move all info 1:1 into the sessions hal...
<sbalneav> yeah
<happywithed> sbalneav: thanks
<sbalneav> Hopefully, we should be able to make tribe 2
<ogra> sbalneav, so why hasnt the debdiff been uploaded ?
<sbalneav> Dunno, I sent it to LaserJock late last night
<sbalneav> want me to send it to you now?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we need it fixed for the tribe cd
<sbalneav> k
<happywithed> BTW, is it possible to completely take out the LDAP server from the Classroom client to place it in its own dedicated physical server?  That way I can use the LDAP server for other classrooms.
<sbalneav> gimme 2 seconds
<ogra> freeze is ahead, i dont want to have endless discussions about the patch because i upload during a freeze...
<sbalneav> happywithed: have a separate sever for ldap?  Easy enough, but with only a few clients, ldap's not going to overload anything
<stgraber> ogra: when is the freeze ? Monday, Tuesday ?
<happywithed> sbalneav: Yes, you are right, but my server is not powerful enough to handle another classroom.  So I am going to setup another server for the second classroom and would like both servers to share the same LDAP server.
<ogra> Monday i think
<sbalneav_> Evil me
<stgraber> I also think so as henrik asked me to have a working tracker by Monday :)
<ogra> we should see that we have the big chunk of chages in before ..
<ogra> small changes to fix bugs we find are no problem during freezes
<ogra> but adding 500 lines or so is a prob
<sbalneav_> Sorry, that line should be:
<sbalneav_> /bin/nbd-server 0 $1 -r -C /dev/null > /dev/null 2>&1
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> forgot the -r
<ogra> i understand ... i already changed it locally while trying to get 2.9 running
<ogra> indeed it didnt help :)
<sbalneav> Check your mail there, ogra
<stgraber> sbalneav: Mind sending me a copy of the debdiff ? so I can play with it here :)
<ogra> err
<ogra> thats all ???
<sbalneav> I did have an email from LaserJock, saidhe got into a discussion and couldn't get it uploaded.  Said the email should be changed so that I get credit for the fix.  I couldn't care less about that, just do the fix as yourself ogra.
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> Turned out to be easier than I thought
<ogra> lol
<sbalneav> took me 3 hours of tracing to come up with that, though :)
<ogra> 1h for every added line
<sbalneav> One wonders WHY he took it out.
<sbalneav> since it's SO F****** SIMPLE to leave in
<sbalneav> stgraber: Sure, what's yer addy?
<stgraber> stgraber@ubuntu.com
<sbalneav> 1 sec
<sbalneav> sent
<sbalneav> make sure you patch your nbdrootd in /usr/sbin as well with that line I pasted.
* stgraber loves that kind of patch :)
<sbalneav> ogra: tried it yet?
<ogra> building the package
<ogra> perfect !
<ogra> uploaded
<sbalneav> It work?
* sbalneav crosses fingers
<ogra> sure
<ogra> you should have a reciept mail from launchpad for the upload
<sbalneav> cool
* sbalneav breathes sight of relief
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=nbd
<ogra> there we go
<sbalneav> glad we got THAT one sorted
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> 2.9.3-3ubuntu1 should be in the archive in about 2h
<ogra> i'll fix nbdrootd alongside
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Well, kiddies want some breakfast.
<sbalneav> I'll be on later tonight, get back to ldm :)
<sbalneav> Laster all!
<sbalneav> thx ogra
<Yagisan> highvoltage, you here ?
<highvoltage> Yagisan: indeed
<Yagisan> great
<Yagisan> was browsing through the wiki, and saw your name next too masochists interested in FullyAutomaticSwapServer
<Yagisan> thats was speced for edgy - did that get implemented in feisty ?
* Yagisan has come into a few boxes that really really need network swap
<Yagisan> as in firefox freezes on them O_O
<Yagisan> I've killed him! noooooo!
<highvoltage> Yagisan: yes, it did
<stgraber> cool, nbd-server now works just fine, I just can't open a session (greater then black screen with waiting-cursor ...)
<stgraber> maybe a ssh problem somewhere
<Yagisan> highvoltage, oh ? what magic incantation do I need to pass to ltsp-build-client
<highvoltage> Yagisan: afaik, it should work out of the box
<highvoltage> Yagisan: have you checked whether it made a swap file?
<Yagisan> highvoltage, I'm not an out of the box guy - I have been taking stock ubuntu and addind the ltsp packages to them
<highvoltage> Yagisan: eesh, I don't know then
* Yagisan remembers a time when he would have known exactly where to find all this and not be the one sking for help
<andrew____> I have a client that I was trying to set up with LDAP authentication and I must have messed up the libnss-ldap.conf file (I think I forgot to make bind-policy soft)  and now it hangs during boot.  How can I bypass the desktop and go straight to command line to fix this?
* Yagisan blows away the chroot and starts again
<andrew____> I should speecify...this is a thick client...
<pitux> #ubuntu-cl
<stgraber> hi andrew____
<andrew____> howdy!  back at it.
<stgraber> ok, I think you'll have the exact same problem using the shell as using gdm as it's probably the nss/pam that cause the problem
<stgraber> if switching to tty1 (ctrl+alt+f1) doesn't help, you may want to boot a livecd to fix the config files, then reboot
<andrew____> by livecd you mean a CD image of ubuntu-desktop?
<stgraber> yes
<andrew____> Should I use the "rescue a broken system" option?
<stgraber> this one is more for MBR issues, simply boot the CD
<andrew____> Having trouble getting it to simply boot from disk...may be a bad cd burn
<andrew____> Ok found a good copy...starting in "safe graphics mode"
<stgraber> got to go for a moment, once on the desktop, simply double-click your harddisk in a nautilus window, it'll mount it and let you see its content
<andrupal> OK having some trouble editing the libnss-ldap.conf file in safe mode...
<andrupal> The file appears to to exist...
<andrupal> not to exist, rather
<andrupal> Am I missing something obvious here?
<Yagisan> O_O error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<stgraber> andrupal: ok, open a terminal and become root (sudo -s)
<stgraber> andrupal: then mount your root partition : mount /dev/hda1 /mnt (assuming it's hda1, it can also be sda1)
<andrupal> I've already started a reinstall of desktop...perhaps hasty...
<stgraber> ok :)
<stgraber> Just a small tip, when you are editing the network auth stuff, always keep a root shell opened somewhere and don't reboot before you are sure everything is working :)
<andrupal> not entirely sure how to do this yet...how do you test boot authentication without rebooting?
<stgraber> you can use : login
<stgraber> from a root shell
<highvoltage> 9/win 11
<andrupal> ack...just had the same thing happen again while editing libnss-ldap.conf it seems I'm locked out of the client
<andrupal> I went to search getent group example and the shell froze up...
<andrupal> Now I'm running desktop from livecd...how do I get into the libnss-ldap.conf file to edit?
<andrupal> trying to add users in LDAP Administration Tool and it fails, saying "Strong Authentication Required"
<andrupal> any clue as to why?
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<andrupal> Howdy
<andrupal> Still slogging away at LDAP here
<sbalneav> Got my own problems
<sbalneav> Air con died in machine room sometime last night.
<sbalneav> Got a call this Am, and came in.
<andrupal> Yikes
<sbalneav> 96 degrees in the core room
<sbalneav> I'm picking up the pieces now.
<andrupal> I can tell you how a compressor creates cold
<sbalneav> That's ok, I know how refrigeration works.
<andrupal> About all I have to offer at this point;)
<andrupal> I'm getting stuck adding new users to slapd :  database already in use errors...
<sbalneav> how are you adding them?
<andrupal> tried a GUI "LDAP Administration Tool" to no avail (strong authentication required errors)  now back using init.ldif
<sbalneav> You're not using slapadd, are you?
<andrupal> yes
<sbalneav> bzzt.
<sbalneav> from the slapadd manpage:
<sbalneav> "Your slapd server should not be running when performing slapadds"
<sbalneav> use gq
<sbalneav> apt-get install gq
<andrupal> It seems already to be installed
<sbalneav> start it up then,
<sbalneav> add your server
<sbalneav> (localhost)
<sbalneav> you got a book on LDAP?
<andrupal> Sort of...I've got some chapters in an O'Reilly Linux System Admin book....and a Samba book
<sbalneav> O'Reilly has a couple of good ones.  "LDAP systems administration" is highly recommended/
<ath> do you get an LDAP if you install ltsp server?
<sbalneav> LDAP is a huge, HUGE topic
<sbalneav> ath: no
<sbalneav> if you want, you can GET ldap going for users with LTSP
<andrupal> i.e. I should install ltsp?
<ath> because I am looking to set up a network for our small school and I am considering edubuntu but I don't want to use gnomw
<ath> gnome
<sbalneav> gnome's got nothing to do with LDAP
<sbalneav> LDAP's a Lightweight Directory Access Protocol
<andrupal> sbalneav: does gq add users or is it just a browser
<ath> I know but I need a graphical way of doing things
<sbalneav> GQ can add
<sbalneav> ath: so use GQ
<ath> what is GQ
<sbalneav> A graphical interface to ldap
<ath> oh, neat
<andrupal> So it try adding a user in gq and it says modifications require authentication
<ath> is LDAP better than using edubuntu because I don't really want all the programs that come with it
<andrupal> Again:  stronger authentication required
<sbalneav> andrupal: you need to bind to LDAP as the ldap owner ID
<andrupal> I see, so that means if "andrew" is the user, "andrew" also needs to be the ldap owner?
<sbalneav> As part of setting up the database, you should have created a user, like ldapadmin, or admin, that has write access to the database
<sbalneav> You need to bind to ldap as that user.
<sbalneav> no
<andrupal> Do I need to create a user in Ubuntu called "admin" and then login as this user?
<sbalneav> andrew would be a regular user
<sbalneav> You need to bind as your ldap "root" user, so you have write access.
<andrupal> How can I get the desktop apps to bind as "admin"
<sbalneav> You set that up in the binddn in gq
<ath> is edubuntu ldap then?
<sbalneav> ath: no
<sbalneav> ldap is a subsystem that can be installed and set up
<andrupal> Where's binddn in gq?
<sbalneav> it's not there by default
<ath> I see
<sbalneav> andrupal: in the server setup
<sbalneav> my binddn's cn=ldapadmin,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
<sbalneav> where ldapadmin's the userid that's the owner
<andrupal> I don't see a "server setup" ...is this in a config file or part of the GUI?
<andrupal> Oh... in the DN for example.net?
<sbalneav> in your slapd.conf, you set the rootdn with the rootdn keyword, and it's password with the rootpw keyword
<sbalneav> andrupal: I don't have gq runing right now.
<sbalneav> So I can't tell you exactly where it is.
<andrupal> right...but then you're saying gq has a setting for this as well?
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> it does
<sbalneav> I know, because I use it.
<andrupal> I believe you...so far you have done me right!
<sbalneav> what's the value of your "rootdn" and "rootpw" keywords in your slapd.conf?
<andrupal> admin and the rootw is an SSHA string
<sbalneav> just "admin"?
<andrupal> yes
<sbalneav> That's not right.
<sbalneav> You'll need something like:
<sbalneav> "cd=admin,dc=example,dc=net"
<andrupal> Oh yes,,,that's what it says.
<andrupal> I think I found the place in gq where this is set.
<sbalneav> brb, gotta bring another piece of the puzzle back online.
<sbalneav> back
<andrupal> helluva time getting gq to authenticate the root user for LDAP...anyone know this beast (LDAP) well enought to tame it?
<andrupal> howdy sbalneav
<andrupal> Tried setting up the server settings in gq to no avail
<andrupal> under servers->localhost
<andrupal> ->edit  I set the dn identical to that in slapd.conf
<andrupal> What authentication (bind type) am I using...simple, kerberos, or sasl?
<sbalneav> simple
<cliebow2> complex
<andrupal> even if rootpw is SSHA string?
<cliebow2> simple to you is..well..
<andrupal> After all is submitted, I'm getting: server "localhost" not found, errors.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<sbalneav> LaserJock yep
<sbalneav> andrupal: ok, lets try this
<sbalneav> your base dn's dc=example,dc=com, right?
<sbalneav> or is it net?
<sbalneav> I can't remember
<sbalneav> lets do this:
<sbalneav> ldapsearch -h localhost -b "dc=example,dc=net
<sbalneav> ldapsearch -h localhost -b "dc=example,dc=net" -x "(uid=*)"
<sbalneav> sorry the second one
<sbalneav> LaserJock: What's up?  Saw your email, I sent it on to ollie
<sbalneav> it's been uploaded \o/!
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I'm in at work.  Aircon died in the system room, I'm nursing 20+ servers back to life.
<sbalneav> andrupal: did that command work?
<andrupal> OK a nice output with ldif-looking stuff, including all I added from init.ldif
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> so, that was an anonymous bind
<sbalneav> Now we'll try a bind as the ldap admin.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so did ollie upload it?
<sbalneav> gimme a sec to test.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yep!
<sbalneav> Done like dinner.
<sbalneav> ldapsearch -h localhost -b "dc=example,dc=net"  -D -x "(uid=*)"
<sbalneav> ldapsearch -h localhost -b "dc=example,dc=net"  -D "cn=admin,dc=example,dc=net" -w XXYOURPASSWDXX -x "(uid=*)"
<sbalneav> where XXYOURPASSWDXX is the password it asked you for when you installed ldap
<LaserJock> sbalneav: awesome, great
<LaserJock> I'm glad that was such an easy fix
<sbalneav> LaserJock: it's a load off my mind, let me tell you."
<sbalneav> It was 3 hours of digging into the source.
<sbalneav> I've got to see if Wouter will accept it upstream
<sbalneav> I'm hoping since it's so simple, he will.
<andrupal> sbalneav, the 2nd you gave returns similar output
<andrupal> the first gives invalid dn syntax error
<sbalneav> that was a mistype
<andrupal> ok
<sbalneav> ok, so that means that you can bind as the binddn, with the right password.
<sbalneav> so it should work within gq
<sbalneav> if not, you can use the command ldapadd
<sbalneav> not slapadd, but ldapadd
<sbalneav> that will actually do a bind to the database
<sbalneav> slapadd just tries to write the database files directly
<andrupal> Oh how I would prefer a GUI for this type of thing, though...
<andrupal> Just to confirm...I'm setting up file->preferences->servers->localhost in gq
<sbalneav> Dude, like I say, I don't have access to it at the moment.
<andrupal> OK...no prb
<sbalneav> When in doubt, read the manual, and google.
<sbalneav> brb, next server ready to online
<andrupal> so strange...I can get gq to browse when it doesn't have any bind dn entered...but as soon as I include the bind dn and password in the server setup info, it just hangs up during the search...
<etank> is there a mata package that can be used to install all of the educational apps that come by default with an edubuntu install?
<etank> but without installing gnome
<etank> i want to get all of the default apps for edubuntu loaded on a xubuntu box
<etank> the easiest way possible
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> you might just use the Edubuntu addon cd
<LaserJock> we're going to get better metapackage sets for gutsy
<etank> no big deal
<etank> i just have to do it once
<etank> and then replicate it to the rest of the boxes that i have
<LaserJock> which apps are you interested in?
<etank> all of the educational stuff
<etank> gcompris, tuxmath, etc
<LaserJock> heh, that's kinda broad :-)
<etank> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/CharityProject/PackageList  <---- that sums it up :)
<sbalneav> back
<etank> of course that was taken from the edubuntu site though
<andrupal> any ideas why "dc=example,dc=net" would be giving an invalid dn syntax in LDAP administration tool?
<sbalneav> andrupal: hold on, I've got enough back up to get x going, I'll head upstairs and get gq fire up
#edubuntu 2008-06-16
<yob> hi. I've got a quick edbuntu question
<yob> can I use it to install an RDP based thin client?
<yob> we already have a Windows termianl server setup, but I'd love to use Debian based thin clients
<Nurionn> hello everyone
<Nurionn> is there any known bug in edubuntu hardy concerning dhcp?
<shuerlimann_> hi all
#edubuntu 2008-06-17
<Comete> hi
<bimberi> !hi | Comete
<ubottu> Comete: Hi! Welcome to #edubuntu!
<jodgi> Hi people!
<jodgi> any LTSP admins on today?
<joebaker> Is there a problem with tftpd-hpa that is keeping ltsp from working besides the bug report I filed?
<ogra> there are no known problems with tftpd-hp, no
<ogra> it runs fine for many many users out there, whats your prob ?
<aarmelvin_Linux> ?
<aarmelvin_Linux> can we set up edubuntu to control all students.....like locking Desktop Screens and things like that..
<aarmelvin_Linux> since i am Lecturer i need some details regarding this
<stgraber> have a look at iTalc
<stgraber> it's included with 8.04
<aarmelvin_Linux> since we are going to launch Netop software (a commercial software) to monitoring students laptop screen....and to control them..
<aarmelvin_Linux> ok
<aarmelvin_Linux> thanks...
<aarmelvin_Linux> i will try
<aarmelvin_Linux> can i know some features of that Utility
<stgraber> iTalc is an opensource classroom management that can be used for both Linux and Windows. I did the integration with Ubuntu for Hardy
<aarmelvin_Linux> thanks a lot..
<stgraber> demo mode (fullscreen/windowed), screen locking, remote control, logout, shutdown, reboot, wakeup (if you have wake-on-lan), text message to the student
<stgraber> http://italc.sourceforge.net is the upstream website
<stgraber> packages in Ubuntu are italc-client (installed with Edubuntu) and italc-master
<aarmelvin_Linux> thats cool...
<aarmelvin_Linux> ok
<stgraber> the connection between the master and the clients is done using some SSL so you'll need to copy keys from the master computer to the clients (the public key) so you can then add them and control them
<stgraber> (that's something we'd like to make easier in the future)
<Lns> stgraber, i was just looking at italc - is this pretty stable in hardy?
<stgraber> we still have some crashes with the integrated X11VNC server, I have built some debuging packages yesterday and hope to have time debuging that soon
<stgraber> for normal use it should work fine
<stgraber> the new release (that'll probably be backported to hardy) also has avahi so you get an auto-generated classroom with computers near you
<stgraber> the x11vnc crash seems to happen more often when using computers with high resolutions (> 1024x768) and stressing the VNC (compiz effects, video). Other than that it's stable
<Lns> hmm...1024x768 is pretty common for me
<Lns> that sounds nice though... so it's going to replace thin-client-manager eventually?
<stgraber> indeed
<stgraber> tcm is no longer maintained
<Lns> gotcha
<aarmelvin_Linux> can we restrict students from installing softwares thro Synaptic Package manager.....since as far as Ubuntu is concerned, he/she can install softwares with his/her login passwd
<aarmelvin_Linux> i mean normal user passwd without root passwd
<Lns> aarmelvin_Linux, pretty sure you have to be in the 'admin' group to do that
<Lns> First created user has that, but subsequent users don't
<aarmelvin_Linux> oh.....thats a good idea....thanks..
<Lns> np
#edubuntu 2008-06-18
<neonlightning> is there a way to get cpu optimisation?
<neonlightning> also noticed that apt-get install kernel headers gives me that the package is mentioned but is not available
<aarmelvin_Linux> when i clicked the "test settings" in Ekiga Softphone while configuring i got the following error
<aarmelvin_Linux> mpossible to open the selected audio device (HDA ATI SB) for playing. Please check your audio setup, the permissions and that the device is not busy.
<aarmelvin_Linux> for which file i have to change the permissions
<neonlightning> wow for a channel for an education version of ubuntu this channel was rather non-informative
<monteslu> hah
<monteslu> "is there a way to get cpu optimisation?"
<monteslu> sure, people should have jumped all over that
<Lns> monteslu, haha
#edubuntu 2008-06-19
<eduser> :)
<coolio> we just installed hardy and are experiencing dhcp problems, only 3 of 20 get dhcp and 4th get a lucky to a point
<coolio> desperate for quick tip
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: around ?
<stgraber> ogra: http://merges.ubuntu.com/i/italc/
<stgraber> ogra: any way you can mark that as "do not sync it" ?
<stgraber> or do you need my own 1.0.9-rc3 ? as it's rc3 and I know it still contains some bugs fixed in SVN I didn't publish my packages (not even in the team PPA) but if that can help getting rid of the merge we can probably upload it
<Nurionn> ah, I had same problem like coolio: dhcp-server in hardy seems to be broken
<Nurionn> if I startup multiple clients at the same time, no-one will get an ip...
<Nurionn> in gutsy it works fine
<Nurionn> is there a known bug?
<ogra> stgraber,having the rc before thursday would be fine to just have it from teh merges list, we can still upload more later
<ogra> Nurionn, no, and its the first time i hear about that (hardy is two montsold now) are you sure there is no other dhcp server in your network and yur configuration is ok ?
<ogra> *months
<stgraber> ogra: when generating a new source package for Ubuntu, should I remove all the PPA builds from the changelog ?
<ogra> yes and merge possible changelog entries
<Nurionn> ogra: yes, I made the same configurations I made in 7.10
<Nurionn> for now, I reinstalled 7.10 parallel to 8.04, so I am still able to do some tests from time to time
<Nurionn> ogra: you're back, are you?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: ok, I updated my changelog to include your 1.0.8 upload and I'm test building 1.0.9-rc3
<ogra> cool, thanks
<ogra> Nurionn, yes
<Nurionn> ogra: do you know anything about that dhcp-error, coolio and I have?
<ogra> not more than i said before
<ogra> but i'm pretty sure it just works for a lot of other eople so i'D be surprised if it was dhcpd's fault
<Nurionn> it's strange, because in gutsy it works fine
<Nurionn> I, too, thought that it was an error I did, until I saw the question of coolio
<Nurionn> I made same configuration in gutsy and hardy (they're installed on the same server) -> if I start hardy, it doesn't work but in gutsy it does
<Nurionn> or more precisely: it doesn't work if I connect multiple clients on the same time
<Nurionn> if I wait until one started up and start then another one, it works mostly
<ogra> sounds more like a network problem to me
<ogra> define "doesnt work" more precisely
<ogra> whats the error you see on the screen
<Nurionn> the clients didn't receive an ip adress (and can't boot though)
<ogra> and did you check the logs of the dhcp server if it gets requests it doesnt answer in time etc
<Nurionn> PXE-E51: No DHCP or proxyDHCP offers were received
<Nurionn> in /var/log/syslog i saw the entries: dhcpdiscover and dhcpoffer -> but then it stopped
<Nurionn> nothing more
<Nurionn> "ï»¿sounds more like a network problem to me" - that's what I thought first
<ogra> the entries ?
<ogra> how many ?
<ogra> do you see a request for every offer ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> s/offer/client
<Nurionn> yes
<Nurionn> request -> offer -> request -> offer
<ogra> thats a plain hardy install without any modifications ?
<Nurionn> err
<Nurionn> I mean: discover -> offer -> disover -> offer
<Nurionn> sometimes there are following: request -> ack  (and then sometimes it starts another time)
<Nurionn> I did the following things:
<Nurionn> - install hardy
<ogra> and you are sure there is no other dhcp server in your network anywhere ?
<Nurionn> yes
<ogra> a rounter or so
<ogra> *router
<Nurionn> its a seperate vlan
<Nurionn> and in the same environment it works with gutsy (even if I start 20 clients at the same time)
<ogra> i stopped your list, so what else did you do beyond installing hardy
<Nurionn> - change in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (adding: Driver "vesa" - but it should not matter)
<Nurionn> - install server-kernel (for more than 4gb ram)
<Nurionn> - installing x11vnc
<Nurionn> - configuring /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf (entries for each client: mac-address, fixed-address, host-name))
<Nurionn> - creating some users
<Nurionn> ah and I installed flash/java for firefox3
<ogra> can you try with the default dhcpd.conf ? and with the -generic kernel ?
<Nurionn> I could, but it would take some time (server is in the other building)
<Nurionn> should I?
<ogra> well, might be that the server kernel has a prob with your NIC, who knows
<Nurionn> ok, I'll try then
<Nurionn> brb
<ogra> i know the default setup works for ost people out of the box
<ogra> i havent heard about such a prob the last two months
<ogra> and your symptoms really look like a second dhcpd in the network
<ogra> but if you say that cant be ....
<Nurionn> if it would be, why should gutsy work?
<ogra> your vlan setup works for one but not for the other ?
<Nurionn> re
<Nurionn> yes
<Nurionn> now I tried with default dhcpd.conf and 2.6.24-19-generic kernel
<Nurionn> same problem
<Nurionn> vlan is not the problem I believ, for I made a direct connection to the switch in the other room on monday, and that didn't work either
<joebaker> ogra:  My tftpd-hpa issue went away with following the install directions for Edubuntu 8.04  (installing Ubuntu first from alternate CD with F4 Option to create LTSP server) then loading Edubuntu Addon CD.
<ogra> great to hear :)
<stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<stgraber> ogra: that version contains the debug version of x11vnc. The user won't see it but that can be useful for debuging some memory issues with x11vnc.
<Nurionn> so I'm off until tomorrow. for my dhcp-problem, here are some additional information:
<Nurionn>  /var/log/syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/21402/
<Nurionn>  /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf: http://paste.ubuntu.com/21404/
#edubuntu 2008-06-21
<KingstonAsus767> good morning I hava an issue with edubuntu and ltsp
<KingstonAsus767> any help?
<K_Dallas> Good morning folks! Q: Does edubuntu come with web filtering and parental control right out of box? Does it have those tools at all in the first place? Thanks
<ogra> K_Dallas, not done yet, intepid (8.10) will have a local content filter integrated in the desktop
<ogra> thats one of the two edubuntu centric specs for 8.10
<K_Dallas> excellent news. thanks ogra
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/local-content-filter
<ogra> watch that space, i'm not yet done writing up the full spec though
<ogra> you can have a look at willowng in hardy, but dont expect it to do much yet, its the base for the app that will be used
<K_Dallas> thanks a lot. i look into it right away
<xunux> hi every1
<xunux> can anyone help me??
<xunux> is any1 here???
<xunux> hii...
<calimer> I am!!
<xunux> ok
<xunux> i installed ltsp in ubuntu 8.4
<xunux> how can i change the login screen
<xunux> i tryed for 2 month in every forum
<xunux> not working solution
<calimer> uh sorry I don't know a lot about that
<calimer> I'm still using mandrake
<calimer> login screen for what part exactly?
<ogra> xunux, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ holds the ldm themes
<xunux> for the client
<xunux> yep i changed /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ already
<xunux> but doesnt work
<ogra> sure it does
<ogra> what exactly did you do ?
<calimer> I'm looking up stuff
<xunux> i changed d default files with another theme
<xunux> and i still av d same ubuntu login screen
<ogra> did you update the image after your changes?
<xunux> okokok
<xunux> mayb is that
<ogra> definately :)
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-image
<calimer> :D
<xunux> ok
<xunux> i ll try that
<calimer> ogra to the rescue
<ogra> :)
<xunux> thanks very much nice ogra
<calimer> oh what about nice calimer?
<calimer> that was search the web for you
<calimer> searching
<calimer> I see how it is
<xunux> yep
<xunux> nice calimer too
 * calimer runs away
<xunux> :)
<calimer> just kidding I don't really care
<calimer> glad you got some help
<calimer> and that your month long search has ended
<calimer> er, 2 month search
<xunux> yep i hope so
<calimer> I have a question for someone, I have an update to some linux software I'm working on for edubutu, and I need translators and such, I don't know if I should post to edubutu users or devel
<calimer> or both
<ogra> feel free to try both
<ogra> its not that ither of them is a high traffic list, so cross posting isnt that bad there
<ogra> *either
<xunux> kool
<xunux> another qst
<xunux> how can i change the splash and usplash image
<ogra> thats a bit more tricky
<ogra> best is to follow the ubuntu wiki for creating a custom usplash
<xunux> i get about 5 different ways in forums
<xunux> ok
<ogra> then make sure to copy that into your ltsp chroot, run ltsp-update-kernels and it should work
<xunux> ok
<xunux> i ll try that
<ogra> thats why i said use the wiki or help.ubuntu-com ;)
<xunux> thanks again
<xunux> ok i ll
<xunux> anyway
<xunux> where are u from?
<ogra> forums are not really controlled by any developers so teh quality of info there will vary
<ogra> the help pages are at least reviewed from time to time
<ogra> me ? i'm german
<xunux> ok
<xunux> heyy
<xunux> when i updated the client the following line appeared
<xunux> Info: port 2000 is already defined with /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in inetd.conf
<xunux> Info: taking no action.
<ogra> good
<xunux> and in the loging screen d image doesnt appear
<ogra> any suggestion how i could change that line to not scare people ?
<ogra> it only says that the image is already handled by inetd and doent need any extra change to the inetd config
<ogra> *doesnt
<xunux> ok
<xunux> but why it doesnt load any image?
<xunux> even in the preference menu?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> can you elaborate ?
<ogra> what image do you mean now ?
<xunux> the logo image
<ogra> hmm, is it a png ?
<xunux> or in the preference menu?
<ogra> i'm not sure ldm handles othe formats atm
<xunux> ok
<xunux> never mind
<xunux> i ll try to solve it
<xunux> thanks very much
<xunux> cya
<ogra> ciao
<xunux> adiios
<ogra> btw in 8.10 we will have ldm-themes packages, if you get a cool theme together, feel free to ping me here t get it incuded ;)
<xunux> k
<ogra> (indeed only for public themes :) i dont want to get into legal trouble about company logos or so)
<xunux> sure
<xunux> heyy ogra
<xunux> do u av d link for the splash and usplash in hardy
<xunux> i could find it for edgy
<xunux> but i guess i av changed d way to do it
<ogra> not really
<ogra> the way should still be similar
<xunux> ok
<xunux> thanks
<ogra> /usr/share/doc/libusplash-dev/examples/README should have current instructions though
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplashCustomizationHowto says so at least
<xunux> kool i get it
<ogra> its not a trivial task though
<calimer> thanks ogra , I just didn't want to be a "spammer" or something
<xunux> heyyy ogra
<xunux> do u still there?
<xunux> is any1 here???
<xunux> hi every1
<xunux> can i ask you a question?
<xunux> ...
<xunux> is anybody out there??
<xunux> hiiiii
<xunux> hiya
<xunux> can i ask a qst
<xunux> is anybody here!!!???
<xunux> i av a problem with d ltsp splash
<juliux> xunux: just ask don't ask if you can ask a question
<xunux> ok
<xunux> how can i change the splash image in ltsp
<xunux> ??
<xunux> i did it in ubuntu
<xunux> and the follow d same steps by chroot to the ltsp
<xunux> but its not workin
<juliux> have you rebuild the image?
<xunux> yep
<xunux> i just updated it
<xunux> ltsp-update-image
<xunux> i follow this ubuntu wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplash
<xunux> as chroot
<xunux> then updated d ltsp image
<xunux> but not workin
<xunux> any idea?
<juliux> no
<xunux> ok thanks anyway
<xunux> has anyone ever changed d splash image???
<xunux> ok solved it
<xunux> thanks to highvoltage
<xunux> nights every1
<highvoltage> gnight xunux
#edubuntu 2008-06-22
<MikeD> Hello?
<MikeD> Looking for a little help on edubuntu server.  WIll leave irc running.  WIll check from time to time.  Thanks!
<bimberi> MikeD: Hi, just ask your question.  If someone knows they'll answer.
<MikeD> Thanks.  I am familiar with k12ltsp.  I LOVE Ubuntu desktop.  I was trying to set up EDUbuntu LTSP.  I am eaither trying to hard, or this is really too hard.  Installed it 3 or 4 time.  Comes to text login.  Logged in fine.  That's it?  After reading many forums, found I had to do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop.  Did that.  I am using a Dell 1600 with 1 gig ram and a 36 g scsi drive.  2 nic cards.  one worksation with PXE capabilit
<MikeD> Goal is to set up demo system ofr several non profits and day care centers.  (pre-k to about 10 yrs old).  Was hoping Edubuntu was THE solution.  It HAS to have a GUI and be easy enough for neophytes (non techies) to administer. Unless I'm missising soemthing, this is not ready for "stick a disk in a server and make it go" for non techies.  Is that where Edubuntu really is at this point?
<MikeD> Server is fired up right behind me.  Forgive my rant.
<neil_d> I am setting up a ubuntu+ltsp system, would It be any better to run the clients with the xfce desktop instead of gnome ?
<MikeD> Biel, I'm also waiting on some of the "brains" to appear.  I think they are all out partying tonight.  :)
<MikeD> Neil
<neil_d> MikeD: hi, do you have a LTSP setup ?
<MikeD> Can't make it work yet.
<MikeD> That's what I am trying to do
<neil_d> I didn't have much trouble, what wrong ?
<MikeD> Installed Ubuntu alt cd.  gave me text logon.  That was end?  Did sudo apt-get ubuntu-desktop to get gui.  Dell server . 2 nics, hub, one pxe workstation.  Just tring to get the worsation to connect.
<neil_d> have you a gui now ?
<MikeD> yes
<neil_d> good ! installed the ltsp packages ?
<MikeD> ? from where?
<neil_d> with synaptic would be easiest
<MikeD> Neil -brb.  Installed Ubuntu alt cd and pakages for add on cd so far.  Is ther emore for LTSP?
<MikeD> back
<neil_d> do you have ltsp-server or ltsp-server-standalone installed ?  which one ?
<neil_d> you also need openssh-server
<MikeD> Let me back up.  I know/used k12ltsp.  I am NOT a linux gur.  Have test server trying to set up Edubuntu server and make one pxe box talk to it via hub.  Dell server with 2 nics.  Installed Ubuntu 8.04 alt cd.  It connect to my existing network on one nic.  I had to install ubuntu-desktop to get gui.  Installed some kids stuff form add on cd.  Pxe box does not connect.  Thtas all I have done.  If there is more for LTSP - can you point m
<neil_d> alright!  one thing you need is a DHCP server, The server does it have static IP setup for both nics ?
 * neil_d opps
<neil_d> I presume one nic is for internet access, one is for the terminals ?
<MikeD> dunno,  did default install.  Asssume server gets DHCP IP for my network.  It gets apps so it is working.  No idea  if other side works.  I d/l dhcpd to server
<MikeD> Neil - I can wipe and start over right now .....
<neil_d> ok!  are you on irc from the server atm.
<MikeD> no sir - windoze box 6 feet away .....
<neil_d> ok,
<MikeD> So I can wipe and still talk to you
<neil_d> have you run the ltsp-build-client script ?
<MikeD> no.  (where the hell is that?).  Neil, I am trying to figure this out to explain to user that know less than me.  I did what the Edubuntu site said, and butchered it by just reading forums and mailing lists.
<neil_d> ok! start a terminal up.
<MikeD> -Assume- I know nada.  How hard is it to set up Edubuntu 8.04 on a new server with one p4/512 meg PXE box?
<MikeD> with all defaults.  Just making one boxen talk to blasted server?   :)
<neil_d> fairly simple most the complex stuff is done by various scripts.  some customisation is needed.
<neil_d> yes!  but for that to work there is some setup to do.
<neil_d> the less you know, about how linux works the more complex it appears.
<MikeD> <sigh>  thank you Neil.  You have time to make this a virgin install work on a server/pxe box?
<neil_d> ok do you have that terminal up?
<MikeD> yez
<MikeD> server up with gui, in shell
<neil_d> type "ltsp" hit tab 2 times and a small list should appear.
<MikeD> 'command not found"
<neil_d> ok you don't have ltsp installled.  do a "sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone"
<neil_d> have you check the bios of the 'terminal' to make sure it can do a network boot ?
<MikeD> invalid install ltsp-install     retyped your commands several times
<neil_d> have you used synaptic before ?
<MikeD> oh yeah
<neil_d> ok startup synaptic and do a search ltsp
<MikeD> Neil. thank you so much for your time.  I'm exhausted and going to bed.  WIll be back tomorrow.  I would really like to do this from a virgin install.  I will need to do it again.  Thank you!
<neil_d> MikeD:  ok, I dont think I will be here.  bye
<neil_d> I am setting up a ubuntu+ltsp system, would It be any better to run the clients with the xfce desktop instead of gnome ?
<juliux> hi ogra
<ogra_cmpc> hey juliux
<mike53> can some one guide me on setting up nics on my edubuntu test box?
<mike53> can some one guide me on setting up nics on my edubuntu test box?
<gonzoism> hi
<gonzoism> is edubuntu an addon cd for ubuntu ?
<gonzoism> i want to get it, and set it up and give it away, but i don't see an edubuntu-cd.iso anywhere
#edubuntu 2009-06-15
<Poopface> Anyone have a solution to this error: "Could not find kernal image: Linux" when trying to boot from usb??
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.65-0ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 98 kB, installed size 1092 kB
<KAIN> anyone help please ,i'm running squid2.7Stable3 on ubuntu server 9.04 with cisco vxr7200, i need to setup wccp v2 between squid box and the router
<KAIN> hello everybody
<KAIN> anyone help please ,i'm running squid2.7Stable3 on ubuntu server 9.04 with cisco vxr7200, i need to setup wccp v2 between squid box and the router
<nubaemobile> wccp, what's that?
<sbalneav> Moring all
<sbalneav> KAIN: http://www.sublime.com.au/squid-wccp/
<nubae> morning/afternoon for me sbalneav
<alkisg> Yeah, there should be a UTC version of all the salutations :P
<sbalneav> The general way to do it is, simply give the salutation specific for your TZ, and the other people simply respond with their appropriate one.
<sbalneav> So I'd say: Morning nubae
<sbalneav> and you'd respond: Afternoon sbalneav
<sbalneav> We're all aware we're all over the world :)
<nubae> yah... guess so... hey sbalneav... check out what I've been working on last couple weeks... I'd like to do something similar for edubuntu... or... agnosticate that one and generalise it for all distros... what do u think: http://nubae.selfip.com/moodle/
<nubae> I'd like to make a course about sabayon actually... now that you've managed to get it functional...
<sbalneav> Well, it's still not 100%
<sbalneav> panel properties aren't being applied.
<sbalneav> Site looks nice
<nubae> ok, u think I should wait to make a course on it?
<nubae> I'll wait till you say 'nubae sabayon is usable now'
<nubae> :-)
<sbalneav> Heh, I'll be working on it more this week.
#edubuntu 2009-06-16
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sarower> hello all
<sarower> i am facing a problem regarding the installation of j2re in ubuntu 9.04
<sarower> xulrunner-1.9' conflict:j2re1.4()
<sarower> what it could be..?
<sarower> or any solution..
<sarower> please
<sarower> any body?
<sarower> halar kono vadai kisu pare na naki????
<sarower> sala sob bokchod...!
<sarower> konoi kotha koi nah..!
<sarower> :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<stgraber> highvoltage: ignore that, that was for the CC meeting but I didn't notice they canceled this one (no quorum), so next one will be the 7th
<pygi> hi
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> morning sbalneav
<alkisg> Good afternoon :D
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<sbalneav> Darn kids, rebooting my box :)
<bencrisford> +P
<bencrisford> =P*
<sbalneav> Get up
<sbalneav> get on up
<sbalneav> get up
<sbalneav> get on up
<sbalneav> AND DANCE
<sbalneav> :D-\-<
<sbalneav> :D-|-<
<sbalneav> :D-/-<
<alkisg1> sbalneav: how old are your kids?
<sbalneav> 14 and 16
<alkisg1> Heh the way you said it I thought they would be little ones
<alkisg1> Mine are 9, 7 and 3 - little indeed
<nubae> alkisg1: take a look at: http://nubae.selfip.com/moodle
<alkisg> nubae: nice work, that's the most good looking moodle I've seen so far :)
<nubae> yeah, trying to give it its due... should be an example of whats possible with moodle, which is an awsome system for everything educational...
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong!
<highvoltage> stgraber: just got home after being away for 6 weeks, caught up with #ubuntu-meeting... thanks and congratulations!
<bencrisford> ooh, did i miss something?
<stgraber> highvoltage: thanks
<stgraber> bencrisford: I'm coredev
<stgraber> highvoltage: so you won't have excuses not to work on ltsp-cluster's packaging ? ;)
<bencrisford> Nice one!  I was gonna give you a little testimonial if it would have counted...  you should have told me it was so soon!  and gratz :D
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh, no excuses indeed... and \o/ on the core-dev approval!
<highvoltage> stgraber: I liked cjwatson's i-though-he-was-already-core-dev comment
<stgraber> yeah :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I have some unpacking/showering/sleeping/etc to do tonight, but tomorrow I can give some attention to those packages
<stgraber> highvoltage: great, you have a mail full of stuff that need fixing :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I saw that, thanks!
<alkisg> congrats, stgraber! :)
#edubuntu 2009-06-17
<derosa> Hi, I have a bug report that got fixed upstream. I know I should request a Â¿sync, merge? of the sid package for jaunty. Could anyone mentor me?
<derosa> It's bug 387743
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387743 in kdeedu "i18n Jupiter's moons applications crash kstars" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387743
<derosa> Sorry, wrong bug, I mean bug 115416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 115416 in ktechlab "crash when selecting a component (happened at least 5 times with differnet compounts)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115416
<derosa> It's going to be fixed in karmic, but I think it should be in jaunty-updates, as the bug renders the program unusable
<ogra> derosa, write that in the bug report and follow the SRU process
<ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<derosa> I will, thanks
<burbas> Hi! I have a little problem with a USB->Serial-adapter on a thin client. How can I map this device to the ltsp-servers /dev?
<ogra> you cant
<ogra> use whatever you use to access the serial port as localapp
<burbas> Okay. Which is the best way to do this? Just run ltsp-localapps "programname" /dev/mylocaldevice ?
<ogra> what do you want to run exactly ?
<ogra>  /dev/mylocaldevice should be set in the config of the app
<burbas> I have a program that collects data from a device conncted to the thin-clients serialport. This app takes the port as an argument.
<ogra> i'm not sure ltsp-localapps hands over arguments, try it :)
<burbas> Okay :). Thanks for the tips anyway
<ogra> if it doesnt work, just put a script in place that calls it with the arg
<burbas> Hmmm.. If I run a program with ltsp-localapps, does the std-devices (stdout, stderr) be pointed to the terminal that im running from or some kind of pseudo-shell?
<burbas> nm. The bufferts was redirected :))
<Dynamit> hello i want to start edubuntu on one computer but when i doe's i get this error image to large for low memmory ...... how can i fix this problem
<Dynamit> but an virtual pc whit 512 mib ram work but not this old computer
<Dynamit> that i want to boot edubuntu on
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Maybe I'm just missing a key piece of documentation somewhere, but can anyone tell me how to configure my Edubuntu LTSP server with a static IP on eth1?
<cberlo> ...and this would be on a Jaunty Jackalope install...
<cberlo> NetworkManager seems to kick in after a while and kills my configuration.  I've edited /etc/network/interfaces and put in a 192.168.0.1 address for eth1, but after the DHCP server has been started, NetworkManager seems to be requesting an address (for eth1 itself??) and I wind up losing the configuration on that NIC altogether.
<cberlo> Anyone?
<alkisg> cberlo: upload your /etc/network/interfaces to pastebin
<cberlo> Been a while here... what's the pastebin address?
<alkisg> pastebin.ubuntu.com
<cberlo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/197915/
<cberlo> eth0 is automagically configured through DHCP on my external network through NetworkManager.
<alkisg> cberlo: uh, Networkmanager should _not_ be managing eth1, since it's declared in the interfaces file
<alkisg> So if you left click on its panel applet, it should be saying "eth1 - not managed"
<cberlo> Yep, that's about what I figured.  So..... is there a way to manually stop it from doing that?  It does show up when I view network connections through NetMgr.
<alkisg> cberlo: have a look at /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/, I've seen NM screwing up the connection files a lot of times, maybe it's a similar bug.
<cberlo> Okay, will check that.  I did have some issues getting the basic install going (bad CD-ROM drive) so maybe something get installed in a way I didn't intend...
<cberlo> I suspect solving issue #1 here will solve issue #2 (which I haven't mentioned yet):  can't login from a client after mucking with IP address and dhcp stuff manually.
<alkisg> cberlo: maybe you could also try apt-get purge network-manager - to completely remove it's settings, and reinstall it... don't know.
<alkisg> Yeah, solve the #1 issue first and you can look at #2 later
<cberlo> Strange.  No references there, either.  192.168.0.1 is briefly configured, then gets "unconfigured".
<alkisg> Maybe it's on a "user" connection, not on a "system" connection.
<alkisg> I.e. on your home dir, let me find it...
<cberlo> Did find an auto config within NM that said "Automatic Ethernet" and another called "Auto eth0" -- I want the Auto eth0, but I just deleted the other.  Let's see what happens...
#edubuntu 2009-06-18
<asanchez> hi all!
<asanchez> hola nubae
<nubae> hola asanchez
<asanchez> are you planning to flight to Spain?
<nubae> yup, el 30 tengo entrevista en Sevilla
<nubae> espero que vaya todo bien
<asanchez> nubae, be ready for 40ÂºC
<nubae> gah
<nubae> bueno, I'm used to it
<nubae> at least its not 50c
<LaserJock> nubae: ping
<Lns> Hey all
<Lns> LaserJock: haha, looks like you gave nubae the ping of death
<LaserJock> Lns: heh
<Lns> LaserJock: I really like the idea of the script repo
<Lns> that's one thing that would be really nice to build up
<LaserJock> I thought you might
<LaserJock> I was talking with highvoltage about it this morning
<alkisg> Hey Lns, LaserJock.... LaserJock, a question please, how could I try to get an "ltsp-server-dnsmasq" package to universe, that only satisfies the dependencies to use dnsmasq instead of the usual dhcp3-server that ubuntu uses? - no code whatsoever?
<LaserJock> I think it could easy to implement, give something easy people can contribute to
<Lns> it's the lack of automation that makes linux hard for schools right now..they have processes during the year that could be easily automated but no tools exist for it
<alkisg> script repo??? I'm in!!! :)
<LaserJock> and I think it would help us get feedback on what's lacking
<alkisg> I've just finished the school-scripts for Greek schools using ubuntu/ltsp
<LaserJock> Lns: I think it would be good to generalize and document these scripts
<LaserJock> Lns: people often have a good idea, but they have a specific itch to scratch. A collaborative repo would help to make scripts more useful to the whole community, IMO
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, you'll want to upload the package to REVU
<highvoltage> alkisg: nice
<Lns> exactly
 * alkisg googles about REVU
<LaserJock> alkisg: it's a tad overkill for a simple metapackage, but that's the usual  place to put packages up for review
<Lns> And what's nice, too, would be that these scripts can take many different forms - for instance, we can take the ideas of some of these things and put them into what i'm developing (the thin-client-manager gui)
<LaserJock> alkisg: basically you need 2 MOTU to approve the package
<LaserJock> alkisg: you could maybe get stgraber and myself to do it
<alkisg> OK, LaserJock & stgraber? :P :D
<alkisg> Heh!!! :D
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> alkisg: if you put it up on REVU and let me know the URL I'll review it
<alkisg> Thanks man, I'll do that.
<LaserJock> Lns: yeah, I sort of see it as an incubation area as well
<Lns> Totally
<bencrisford> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> Lns: if scripts turn out to be really useful, etc. then they can get picked up by Edubuntu/LTSP proper I think
<LaserJock> bencrisford: hi
<LaserJock> bencrisford: did you send out the meeting minutes?
<alkisg> Where did you talk about the scripts? In the meeting?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: =S, No, sorry, I thought you were gonna?
<bencrisford> shall i send em now?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I sent you an email with revisions
<Lns> alkisg: on the list
<LaserJock> bencrisford: but it's your deal dude, send 'em off when you think they're ready :-)
 * LaserJock is kickin' back and letting everybody else do the work ;-p
 * alkisg curses his slow mail... just got it
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Haaaang on, I have the minutes for the 5th june meeting
<bencrisford> wasnt there one on the 11th?
<LaserJock> hmm
<bencrisford> i wouldnt of been here that night
<LaserJock> it might have been canceled, I don't remember
<bencrisford> k
<LaserJock> so on a technical level here's what I think might work:
<LaserJock> 1) create an LP project, edubuntu-community-tools
<LaserJock> 2) make ~edubuntu-members the driver
<LaserJock> the LP Project will allow people to just bzr branch lp:edubuntu-community-tools to get the scripts
<LaserJock> and allows people to file bugs against them
 * Lns loves that idea
<LaserJock> ~edubuntu-members gives some QA, a little perk to being a member, and some incentive to becoming a Member
<bencrisford> what scripts?
 * bencrisford scrolls up
<LaserJock> *eventually* if this works out we could even package it up
<LaserJock> bencrisford: read your edubuntu email
<Lns> bencrisford: the ones that mostly aren't created yet ;)
<bencrisford> cool :)
<bencrisford> ill send those minutes now?
<bencrisford> thats why i cant read my inbox :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford: sure
<alkisg> Lns: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa => sch-scripts package. The interface is in Greek, but the code comments are in English, so I think you'll be able to reuse some code. E.g. for locking down firefox settings, for adding applets to the panel for all users, for initial configuration of chroot & updating later on etc.
<alkisg> ncurses driven, I want to improve the interface in the summer.
<bencrisford> hmm
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Scripts that do like what?
<Lns> alkisg: wow
<alkisg> Basically I took my 100 pages UbuntuLTSP installation/configuration manual and turned it into scripts
<alkisg> (still halfway there, though)
<bencrisford> ah
<bencrisford> back in an hour or so
<bencrisford> minutes sent
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, that's the kind of stuff I'm thinking of
<alkisg> I'm totally in for this! :)
<alkisg> ...and if we could get sbalneav or some other good dev with a little spare time to organize us (=define the "framework" of the scripts - not the implementation), we'd get a good start
<LaserJock> exactly
<Lns> I might have a dev resource for helping out with that
<alkisg> Hmmm... that's a nice idea
<alkisg> Lns, ask him if it would be possible to have a python GUI with an "embedded terminal" for the scripts to run in.
<alkisg> E.g. I would go to a menu (or a search dialog), locate the "update-chroot" script, and then the script would run inside the embedded terminal - so if user input was needed, it would be asked in a usual way inside the program interface...
<Lns> alkisg: that's a novel idea, i'm sure some generic terminal could be created as a plugin or some such
<Lns> to make scripts run inside the gui easier
<Lns> that aren't gui based that is
<alkisg> I think the update-manager does that, it has an "expand to see the terminal" button somewhere
<yanqui> alkisg: it's very easy to embed ipython into an app
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> in general it would be good to separate frontend and backend
<Lns> ah, there he is ;)
<LaserJock> so scripts do their thing
<LaserJock> but shouldn't make assumptions about frontend necessarily
<LaserJock> then a GUI can be placed to feed the backend scripts the parameters they need
<yanqui> yeah, it would probably be better to use whiptail/gdialog/xdialog for user input from scripts
<yanqui> then the python program just has to system() the script
<alkisg> yanqui: that's what I use now (whiptail), and I don't really like the result
<yanqui> I've never used whiptail, I used zenity before I started just doing everything in python
<alkisg> Because if I didn't take into account something when I execute e.g. apt-get update, and user input is needed, then it's not nice to drop from whiptail to plain terminal
<LaserJock> alkisg: the idea is to not need a terminal
<yanqui> alkisg: how does update manager and the add/remove thing do it in Ubuntu?
 * yanqui kind of agrees with LaserJock 
<alkisg> Do you think we'll have as experienced programmers involved as update-manager does?
<yanqui> and I'd lean toward having plugins be written in python with maybe something to run bash scripts...
<LaserJock> update-manager does some funky stuff, not huge
<yanqui> alkisg: well if we can just snag that part out then we don't need anything else
<LaserJock> but having the terminal there is considered bad usability
 * Lns hasn't ever seen update-manager require user input *from* it's terminal interface
<LaserJock> and people have wanted to get rid of it forever
 * yanqui has 
<LaserJock> Lns: yes, generally you get a GUI
<yanqui> yeah, I agree with LaserJock
<LaserJock> it's an implementation detail of Debian packages
<Lns> ah
<LaserJock> *most* packages use debconf
<alkisg> Well, if it's gonna be all-gui, then it should be python programs, not shell scripts...
<LaserJock> which has a number of frontends depending on what you're using
<LaserJock> however, Debian Policy didn't strictly say you have to use debconf
<LaserJock> some some older packages actually just use stdin
<LaserJock> hence the need for the terminal there
<LaserJock> well, generally I'd see it as
<Lns> well who is forcing the use of the terminal? aren't we talking about plugins for a gui to allow extended functionality?
<Lns> as in, not in the core code of the gui
<LaserJock> 1) start out with bash/perl/python/whatever people used
<LaserJock> 2) as the tools become generalized and improved move towards a more standard framework
<LaserJock> 3) apply an appropriate UI (not always GUI) and make sure it's consistent with the rest of the tools
<LaserJock> Lns: I was just saying why Update Manager has the terminal
<Lns> oh gotcha
<LaserJock> in terms of usability for our target users (who may or may not be familiar with terminals) I think it's good to shoot for GUI when possible
<yanqui> we could just use .desktop files for our script plugin system
<yanqui> but python will be what's primarily supported, everything else will be secondary
<Lns> yeah
<LaserJock> python/bash
<LaserJock> sometimes a shell script makes a lot of sense
<LaserJock> and it's easily callable from a python GUI
<LaserJock> in any case, this is somewhat getting the cart before the horse
<LaserJock> there is not repository or code exactly yet :-)
<yanqui> well...there is a repo and code, but it's just....embryonic
<yanqui> or maybe more of a zygote
<alkisg> I don't think .desktop files would be enough, a framework would be needed. E.g. some scripts may be able to "act" on files, others on users... So the "framework" would know which scripts to show when right-clicking on a users list. (ok I now that's not gonna be implemented really soon :D)
<Lns> yanqui: i think he's talking about the edubuntu script repo
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, what you would have is a .desktop file that points to a wrapper
<alkisg> I mean: the python gui shows a groups list, the admin selects two groups, and then goes to the menu that activates a script that does something with the users that belong to these 2 groups
<alkisg> The "responsibility" to get the users that belong to these scripts would be on the framework, not on the script
<LaserJock> so you have a <plugin>.desktop file that points to a <plugin>_wrapper.py file that defines input/output
<yanqui> LaserJock: or we could put some of that stuff into enviornmental vars
<yanqui> before exec() a couple of vars get set and there you go
<LaserJock> first though I'd focus on the actual scripts
<yanqui> first we need something that works
<alkisg> I mean something like this (*one* of the front-ends, the users one): http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png
<yanqui> well, we'll see... right now we're still trying to get up to the level we were before we started clearning the code
<LaserJock> I like alkisg's stuff
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if it needs maybe more generalization or something
<Lns> alkisg: wow, that looks slick =)
<alkisg> There are scripts that just run without needing any parameters, scripts that run on users, scripts that run on groups, scripts that run on files etc
<LaserJock> for the "do X to user Y" it's good
<alkisg> LaserJock: see on the bottom, there are 3 tabs
<alkisg> There should be more there
<yanqui> alkisg: what is this?
<alkisg> But the idea is that the "admin" could switch to the file view and call a script that acts on a file (e.g.)
<LaserJock> well, I just wonder about more generalization and thinking about what we're trying to accomplish
<LaserJock> I'm not convinced it should all be in 1 GUI
<alkisg> yanqui: a prototype I started making, but I left if for the summer due to lack of time
<Lns> alkisg: I'd love it if you would work with us on our tcm project
<yanqui> what's it written in?
<alkisg> python/gtk
<Lns> a lot of these goals seem to overlap
<yanqui> do you have a repo I could look at?
<alkisg> Lns, sure, I'd like that.
<alkisg> yanqui: I could send you the code, but it's not much - it's just the prototype
 * Lns invites alkisg to #lns if he'd like to collaborate
<alkisg> Lns - gimme a few weeks to finish the things I've started - I'll dive into tcm in July
<yanqui> alkisg: can you send it to hex [at] neg9.org?
<alkisg> Anyway, as LaserJock says, I think we should start with defining what we're trying to accomplish
<alkisg> yanqui: will do
<yanqui> well we actually have a roadmap
<LaserJock> I'm envisioning something more like an "Education Control Panel"
<yanqui> education control panel isn't general enough
<LaserJock> where you can install education software, manage LTSP tasks, or do lock-down
<yanqui> LaserJock: this could be used in biz too
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to generalize too much
<LaserJock> as we then lose educational focus
<yanqui> one of the major faults of TCM was that it was focused too much on education
<LaserJock> I thought it's major fault was it focused too much on LTSP :-)
<LaserJock> I want something LTSP-agnostic
<Lns> the commonground here is that it should be able to be used for *everything*
<yanqui> LaserJock: ltsp agnostic?
<Lns> the LTSP parts can be used for ltsp, the user/group/file parts can be used for other stuff...it can all be easily separated in sections/plugins/what have you
<LaserJock> Lns: I don't know about *everything*
<LaserJock> but it can be developed without lock-in yes
<LaserJock> yanqui: LTSP neutral
<yanqui> LaserJock: I mean, you want something that focuses more on user management or what?
<LaserJock> but for Edubuntu the obvious focus is Education
<LaserJock> I mean anything to do with Education on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> so I'd like to see an Educational Software installer
<LaserJock> I'd like to see Content Management
<yanqui> that's far outside the focus of this porject
<LaserJock> User Management
<yanqui> project
<LaserJock> Thin Client Managmenet
<Lns> i think we've got some wires crossed =D
<LaserJock> those are the things that people need
<yanqui> we're focused on thin client managment and user management, if someone wants an educational install I'd be glad to have that as a plugin
<Lns> LaserJock: what we're talking about is the TCM project we're reviving.. it can definitely be used for things other than education. I think you're talking about the scripts repo for educational use, which is different
<LaserJock> oh, yes
<Lns> but both projects can share all sorts of stuff
<LaserJock> but I see them as all sort of the same deal
<Lns> because the goals overlap
<Lns> sure
<LaserJock> TCM is the Thin Client Managmenet component
<Lns> but they should be maintained separately
<LaserJock> but I want to see a whole Education Control Panel thingy
<Lns> sure
<Lns> that can be its own project
<yanqui> well wait here for a sec
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> sub-projects of a larger I think
<LaserJock> I don't think TCM is in a vacuum neccesarily
<yanqui> we want to have tcm and user managment merged into a single control panel, but they're sort of different at the same time
<LaserJock> then need to be separate
<LaserJock> *they
<LaserJock> because a lot of people don't use LTSP but need user managment
<yanqui> but there are overlapping parts that need to be interoperable
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> so that's why I'm saying sub-projects of a larger goal
<LaserJock> integrated, but distinct programs
<Lns> hmmmm
<LaserJock> the Education Control Panel just pull them together into a easy-to-get-at interface
<yanqui> LaserJock: modular so they could be plugged into a central console but also separated from eachother
<LaserJock> so like take the Gnome Control Center
<Lns> +1 yanqui
<yanqui> right
<LaserJock> it's a single interface to get you where you need to go
<Lns> gnome-system-tools
<LaserJock> but the apps are separate
<LaserJock> right
<Lns> maybe we can integrate with that project??
<yanqui> ok, yeah
<LaserJock> Lns: it's dead, that's why I'm trying to get this going
<Lns> wha? gnome-system-tools is dead?
<LaserJock> yes
 * Lns gasps
 * yanqui raises an eyebrow
<yanqui> how?
<LaserJock> all of it is being ripped out but Users and Groups for Karmic
<LaserJock> and Users and Groups will be replace as soon as possible
<Lns> LaserJock: replaced with what?
<LaserJock> so perhaps by the next LTS gnome-system-tools will be completely gone from Ubuntu
<LaserJock> Lns: nobody knows yet
<Lns> ....
<LaserJock> hence why I'm trying to get stuff going
<Lns> so it's dead, but they don't know what its successor will be
<LaserJock> it's dead because nobody cared to continue it
<LaserJock> so there's nobody to replace it
<LaserJock> ...
<Lns> hmmmmm
<LaserJock> the problem was that each of the distros made their own tools
<LaserJock> Fedora, Mandriva, openSUSE
<Lns> not even distros, GUIs, etc
<LaserJock> so nobody cared for g-s-t
<Lns> i don't get it though, network-admin is a huge tool used in ubuntu
<Lns> how is that just gonna be replaced
<LaserJock> no, that's been long gone
<LaserJock> replaced by Network Manager
<alkisg> I think there was talk about getting the fedora's user management tool to ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, maybe not *long* gone
<Lns> oh..they kinda look the same =D
<LaserJock> I think it was removed for 8.10
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, yes
<LaserJock> alkisg: but apparently it's pretty fedora-specific so will take a lot of work
<yanqui> is the system tools backend still going to be around?
<Lns> alkisg: not fds .. ?
<LaserJock> yanqui: I'm guessing no
<alkisg> yanqui: no, I've heard they're leaving, too :)
<LaserJock> g-s-t-backend is mostly perl and nobody wanted to work on it
<yanqui> well.... if it's perl
<yanqui> that's a good reason
<alkisg> A C front-end for a perl back-end... terrific :P
<alkisg> It's usually the other way around
<LaserJock> well, at least it's not mono :p
<yanqui> it should be a C backend and a python frontend
<Lns> hahhaa
 * yanqui nods
<Lns> LaserJock: don't tell that to the easy-ltsp maintainer ;) wel lactually she's porting it to python as well
<yanqui> oh yeah, I need to talk to her
<Lns> what if *we* pick up the project?
 * yanqui opens up his notes
<Lns> at least the parts that make sense to us?
<LaserJock> Lns: what project?
<Lns> LaserJock: gst
<alkisg> Lns, which one, easy-ltsp?
<Lns> nono
<alkisg> Lns: nononono
 * yanqui is going to head out for a smoke
<yanqui> brb
<LaserJock> Lns: I honestly think we're better off starting from scratch
<Lns> alkisg: well, what if we rewrite in pygtk?
<LaserJock> in python probably
<Lns> well yeah..i guess that's whta i meant
<alkisg> Lns, yup, that's fedora's tool
<alkisg> A good base in pygtk
<Lns> hrm
 * Lns goes to look at fedora 
<LaserJock> I mean, nobody really like Users and Groups that much for educational purposes
<LaserJock> I kinda think this is our chance to design something that really works well for our users
 * alkisg wishes KDE and Gnome were _one_, and we could use kuser :)
<Lns> +1 laserjock
<Lns> alkisg: you can use kuser outside of kde, i do it all the time
<Lns> diversity is the spice of life
<Lns> err...variety =p
<LaserJock> right, but that's clearly not optimal
<alkisg> I think it even supports NIS and LDAP, doesn't it?
<Lns> alkisg: yeah, ldap at least
<LaserJock> additionally, I'd like to see an Educational Software Manager of some kind
<LaserJock> as we're going to DVD I don't think it's really going to be possible for us to just drop every app on the user's machine
<alkisg> LaserJock: like the add-remove-programs but only for educational software?
<LaserJock> kinda yea
<LaserJock> as a first iteration we can use Add/Remove with a custom menu
<LaserJock> I think Add/Remove is on it's way out too
<LaserJock> not sure how long that will take
<bencrisford> back
<LaserJock> but something we'll probably have to keep in mind eventually
<Ahmuck> hows the project going?
<Ahmuck> i've often wondered why linuxes don't offer a basic os and then a add/remove program.  OEM windows loads their computers up with software that "clutters" the drive and requires removal
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: I guess you answered your question
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> Linux does offer that, almost every distro
<LaserJock> hence why Ubuntu is one 1 CD
<LaserJock> but if you consider having to download 1GB of software post-install, who wants that? :-)
<yanqui> LaserJock: so whats wrong with using add/remove programs for educational progs?
<yanqui> why a special manager?
 * alkisg gotta go... Goodnight all
<yanqui> alkisg: later
<LaserJock> yanqui: well, because Add/Remove just has a flat "Education" menu
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: how's the disertation?
<LaserJock> yanqui: and many of the apps that we want to give people are scattered in other categories
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: pretty good
<yanqui> ahh
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: getting close to done I think
<yanqui> LaserJock: what about using metapackages?
<Ahmuck> so, last i knew, edubuntu was trying to "find itself".  Has it found itself yet?
<LaserJock> yanqui: well, we already do
<LaserJock> yanqui: but again, you have to find them, etc.
<LaserJock> and meta-packages don't offer a very clear view of the broader stuff
<LaserJock> we can define core sets, etc.
 * yanqui nods
<LaserJock> but beyond that meta-packages become sort of tricky
<LaserJock> because you have hard dependencies and somebody is bound to  not like something
<yanqui> right
<LaserJock> and even if you go with Recommends instead of Depends it's you still end up having to install a bunch of stuff you may-or-may-not want
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: I think it's getting there yes
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: there's been a fair amount of activity
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: for instance, we talked to the Technical Board and they were fine with us going to a full distro and DVD
<LaserJock> and also using Universe packages
<bencrisford> !info kino
<ubottu> kino (source: kino): Non-linear editor for Digital Video data. In component main, is extra. Version 1.3.0-2.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 4262 kB, installed size 9428 kB
<bencrisford> LaserJock: How come kino is in the edubunut bugsquad packages
<LaserJock> because it was a part of Edubuntu
<bencrisford> oh
<bencrisford> im'a get some sleep
<bencrisford> night LaserJock
<LaserJock> bencrisford: night
<nubae> btw... cinelerra is a really good video editing suite, rivaling kino in many ways... should defintely be carried by edubuntu (at least as universe app)
<nubae> btw... u guys see teh site I just launched.... linux for education
<Lns> I think we need to do something about the GST suite going away..this would be perfect for us to cater to larger installations and do other neat tasks with other tools
<yanqui> Lns: we need to think about the scope of our goals and the resources we have avaliable
<nubae> I know it might seem opensuse centric at the moment, but its meant to be for all distros...
<nubae> is there anyone here who't like to be an admin and hlep edubuntize it a bit?
<Lns> yanqui: yeah... :) well at least we should be keeping in touch with whoever is going to take over the project so we can contribute and hopefully get some of our stuff out there that way too
<nubae> that doesnt mean replacing all opensuse terms with edubuntu, but to make sure its distro-agnostic
<Lns> nubae: i saw your post, good work! =)
<yanqui> Lns: I agree, lets talk about this in the lns channel for a moment
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I took a look
<Lns> yanqui: k
<nubae> Ive already got a couple of folks helping out, but would like to have the site carrying at least 100 courses by end of the month
<LaserJock> nubae: interestingly we've got similar opportunities with the Ubuntu Learning Project
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how to deal with the possibility of having 2 different places for similar content
<nubae> well, lets not try to redevlop the wheel, lets cooperate and get a damn good portal for education
<nubae> well, how is it similar
<nubae> is ubuntu learning project moodle?
<nubae> the main thing we are working on right now is restring moodle courses from open university
<nubae> all of which are creative commons
<LaserJock> yes, it's moodle
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Learning Project is primarily about learning how to use Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but they consider learning about how to use Ubuntu in learning a part of that as well
<LaserJock> linux-for-education seems much more specific to the subject
<LaserJock> nubae: who's hosting this project?
<nubae> cool so its like a subsection of linux for education... can we export the courses and put them under the Ubuntu based courses?
<nubae> an individual heavily involved with openSuse... but I'd like to create mirrors
<nubae> currently though, I do believe its private... ie, not direclty affiliated to any one company
<LaserJock> it would be awesome to have it co-sponsored by the main Edu distros
<nubae> You can see we filled up the IT courses
<LaserJock> RichEd was wanting to do this a couple years ago
<LaserJock> as a part of his Ubuntu in Education thing
<nubae> 25 courses just on IT
<LaserJock> but it never really got off the ground
<nubae> then we platform specific stuff
<nubae> well, its about putting ones nose to the grindstone
<nubae> which I did for a week
<nubae> check out the perfect suse desktop
<nubae> that ook me a good 12 hours to do
<nubae> but its abolutely great now, easily adaptable when needed
<nubae> anyway, one could easily adapt that to edubuntu
<LaserJock> nubae: did you get the emails about the Technical Board meeting?
<nubae> ie.... its a guide to expand the base edubuntu/opensuse-edu
<nubae> yes... but how do they affect me? wasnt quite sure about that
<LaserJock> nubae: well, we got the go-ahead for a DVD and to use Universe to build it
<nubae> oh that yes, that was great, was really happy about that
<nubae> has anything been decided re: user management?
<LaserJock> not sure
<nubae> that seems like an ultra urgent thing
<LaserJock> resources
<LaserJock> somebody (several somebodies) needs to put time into user management
<nubae> other distros have such good mechanisms and ours looks like it 10 years behind (literllay)
<LaserJock> nubae: well, we relied on upstream, trying to be a bit more "pure"
<LaserJock> but as other distros just did their own thing anyway, upstream eventually seems to have died out
<nubae> well see, this is the problem... thats why things stagnate
<nubae> yeah exactly...
<nubae> so... then lets just get to it
<nubae> copy what somoene else has done or straight off hck at what we already gitt
<LaserJock> well, somebody's got to do it, sounds like Lns and alkisg might be interested
<LaserJock> we really need to find a way to get some developer time
<Lns> LaserJock: right now i couldn't imagine being able to handle such a big project for ubuntu, but again our own little tool might be something good to focus on
<LaserJock> baby steps for sure
<Lns> because things like mass-user addition is a must for schools during the new school year start
<Lns> the scripts i saw, iirc had something with a CSV file parser that did this kind of thing..that'd be neat, and very universal
<LaserJock> there are also gobs of python libraries for these things
<LaserJock> CSV input, I think there's a library for interacting with /etc/group and /etc/passwd
<Lns> well that makes it easier i guess =)
<Lns> now that i remember system-config-* in fedora/redhat, i'm all for *buntu merging with that... =) Those utils are way cool
<Lns> The userlist sorts, for one ;)
#edubuntu 2009-06-19
<LaserJock> Lns: the problem with red hat's tools are they are fairly red hat-specific
<Lns> LaserJock: sure, but that's the case for any distro mostly
<Lns> no reason to avoid making it more distro agnostic
<LaserJock> sure, it just makes it non-trivial to use their stuff
<Lns> unless people put the pressure on them to split up parts of the app so others can use it
<LaserJock> i.e. I believe the Desktop Team has already looked at it and said it was iffy if it'd be worth using over starting from scratch
<Lns> jeez...that's too bad
<Lns> well at least we can use their UI? =)
<LaserJock> long term it sounded like maybe that's what will end up happening (using their tool)
<nubae> most opensuse stuff is totally gpl
<nubae> have u looked at some of their stuff?
<LaserJock> but it was going to take more work than the Desktop Team had
<LaserJock> yes
<nubae> I know its kinda integrated with yast
<LaserJock> not me personally
<nubae> but user managament might be able to be ripped out
<LaserJock> but I've talked with people who've looked at it
<LaserJock> and Yast was worse than Fedora's stuff for being distro-specific
<LaserJock> the question might be how much we actually need
<nubae> I believe that... it works so well, it has to be reallly tied into the system
<LaserJock> if we want to reuse lots of code then it makes sense
<LaserJock> but if we only want a small part it's maybe more trouble than it's worth
<LaserJock> either way it's not trivial but really needs to be worked on
<nubae> though yast used to be horrible, but one of the great things is its usable from teh command line as much as from the gui
<nubae> we'd need something like that for ubuntu... a terminal window based thingy a la midnight commander
<nubae> or gui based
<nubae> that way it works great for server and desktop environments
<LaserJock> right yes
<LaserJock> that's why you have backend scripts/library
<LaserJock> and then you can have either GUI or CLI UI
<nubae> the real problem comes with integration with 3rd party stuff though like ldap and samba
<nubae> both of which are pretty much required
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> and both of which are horrible with ubuntu
<Lns> well the thing is there's no "standard" for ldap groups, thats why you have so many different implementations
<nubae> I mean really really horrible
<LaserJock> Users and Groups is not great for that at all
<nubae> yeah but both redhat and novell seem to have done a good job
<Lns> any gui attempt to be completely general would fail at the hands of "you might as well craft your own from the shell"
<nubae> just picking one works ok I think
<LaserJock> yes, they have the luxury of having paid peiole
<LaserJock> *people
<nubae> sure but if their stuff is gpl, it can be copied and reused
<Lns> well it doesn't necessarily help the overall community when you tie your tools to your distro..but whatareyagonnado i guess
<LaserJock> except it's often distro-specific
<nubae> I thik there its just a vanity thing... ubuntu wants to do its own thing
<LaserJock> we have the GPL'd software
<Lns> nubae: nah, *everyone* wants to do their own thing
<nubae> sure, I'm just saying thats not always a good thing
<nubae> reinventing the damn wheel all the time
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Server Team is looking a lot at ldap/samba I believe
<LaserJock> yeah, it sucks to have to keep doing this stuff over and over
<LaserJock> part of that whole "Linux is choice" bit
<Lns> if only there were GNU gui tools
<Lns> of course they'd probably all be written in the oldest widget set imaginable ;)
<LaserJock> ncurses
<Lns> remember linuxconf?
<Lns> i'd favor ncurses over gui
<LaserJock> I like gui's :-)
<LaserJock> or just plain CLI
<LaserJock> I never really got into curses stuff very much
<LaserJock> granted most of my "UI" development has been curses ;-)
<nubae> ncurses and gui
<nubae> why choose?
<LaserJock> my lovely data acquisition program is curses + pgplot
<Lns> The catch 22 is, once you have a 'universal gui' you become monolithic in nature, and that hinders development of new, possibly better ways of doing things
<LaserJock> you don't have to be universal
<LaserJock> just flexible
<nubae> damn damn... have to wake up in 3 hours... train ride at 5 in the morning :-(
<nubae> laters....
<LaserJock> nubae: cya
<Lns> hahaha, by nubae =)
<Lns> bye*
<Lns> LaserJock: I guess so, huh.. it's all about 'parting out' the functions so anyone can get to them
<LaserJock> I think a lot of it is looking at what you're doing and especially the assumptions you're making
<Lns> yeah..cater to your environment
<LaserJock> if you're doing something and you need to make a big assumption
<LaserJock> you should perhaps look at a more generalized approach
<LaserJock> but for sure there's a balance
<Lns> of course
<LaserJock> if you overgeneralize it's no use to anybody because you haven't gotten anything done :-0
<Lns> hopefully most of the generalization can be done 'under the hood'
<Lns> hence the gnu tools we already have, and have had for ages
<LaserJock> a lot of the unix/GNU philosophy has been to have small programs that do a specific task very well
<LaserJock> and then later writing "glue" that pulls together the small tasks to do what you ultimately want to do
<Lns> yep
<Lns> +100
<LaserJock> so I'd like to start with "add a user", "remove a user", "modify a user" ....
<LaserJock> then as things build we can use a CLI and/or GUI to put it all together into a Control Panel type thing
<LaserJock> of course that's assuming we ever get that far ;-)
<Lns> so maybe write scripts to do the specifics we want (mass user add/modify/remove, etc.) that are simply wrapping around useradd/mod/del
<Lns> in the spirit of those underlying tools
<LaserJock> right, that would be a first step
<Lns> then making a gui around THAT would be that much easier
<LaserJock> or perhaps use a python library instead of useradd/mod/del directly
<LaserJock> we know how to add/remove/modify users individually
<LaserJock> what we're missing is how to do it on a mass scale
<LaserJock> and from there how to do it in a user/teacher/admin friendly way
<Lns> sure..well what about the simple 'for i in foo' method?
<Lns> i dunno, i'm thinking on a higher level than i should be probably
<Lns> i dont' know much of anything about the underlying libs
<LaserJock> well, you just need to check your assumptions
<LaserJock> useradd, etc. don't do LDAP, right?
<LaserJock> so you're assuming local users, but given a set of usernames and passwords it exactly a for i in foo
<Lns> right...well you have to start somewhere
<Lns> you can't assume everyone will use ldap either ;)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so that's why I want to collect the scripts that people are actually using
<Lns> ldap users is such a mess
<LaserJock> then we can find commonalities and generalize
<Lns> yeah
<Lns> for sure
<erosa> Hi.I think it'd b a good idea to have al least a mentor in https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+mentoring
<erosa> I have the will to learn and help, but the few tries I made didn't have any sucess.
<tall> hello.
<tall> is this a place for technical question about open office in Ubuntu 9.04 ?
<alkisg> tall, I think it's more suited for #ubuntu
<alkisg> But you can also ask here, I don't think anyone would mind, I just don't know if you'll have enough feedback :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<jonathan1> Has anyone recently upgraded to 9.04 with an on-board intel graphics chipset and have the graphics go crazy.  My graphics, and I am using that term loosely because it could be the video driver, looks like it it is only covering the top 2 inches of my monitor and it repeats a good half dozen times across.  Any ideas how to fix it anyone?
<jonathan1> I understand that ubuntu, in general, has a long running issue with intel chipset.  Was curious if anyone else had the same problem that I did/do.
#edubuntu 2009-06-20
<jonathan1> I asked this yesterday but I realized that I could not hang out long enough to see if someone replied, but the question is. Has anyone recently upgraded to 9.04 with an on-board intel graphics chipset and have the graphics go crazy.  My graphics, and I am using that term loosely because it could be the video driver, looks like it it is only covering the top 2 inches of my monitor and it repeats a good half dozen times across.  Any ideas how to fix it 
#edubuntu 2009-06-21
<Ahmuck> anybody heard of cfengine?
<HedgeMage> Is anyone awake in here from Germany?
<stgraber> Ahmuck: sure but that's pretty old AFAIK, look at bcfg2, puppet or chef for more complete solutions
<Ahmuck> release 3 came out.  it seems like it does machine managment
<Ahmuck> nm, i need to be in the ltsp forum
<bencrisford> !info atomix
<ubottu> atomix (source: atomix): puzzle game for building molecules out of isolated atoms. In component main, is optional. Version 2.14.0-1ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 31 kB, installed size 144 kB
<bencrisford> !info ltsp
<ubottu> Package ltsp does not exist in jaunty
<bencrisford> highvoltage: stgraber:  Is there gonna be an edubuntu meeting any time soon?
#edubuntu 2010-06-21
<dgroos> Good Morning
<Lns> Morning all!
<alkisg> Good evening Lns
<alkisg> Lns, I've been looking at this quide you wrote: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LockdownHomeDirs
<Lns> hey alkisg
<Lns> ok
<alkisg> So you're putting teachers in the admin group?
<alkisg> If they're in the admin group, so they can use sudo, can't they already access the files?
<Lns> alkisg: where does it say teachers are in the admin group?
<alkisg> (only teachers and/or system administrators/techs should be a member of  the "admin" group, as it is used for system administration purposes)
<Lns> my setups have a 'teachers' group and a separate 'admin' group
<alkisg> So, can teachers access user's files?
<Lns> well
<Lns> i guess i could elaborate since my setups are a bit more than just on that page now
<Lns> you can choose for teachers to have access
<Lns> See i wrote that before i got into ACLs
<Lns> so i was just looking at group permissions
<alkisg> Ah, you're using ACLs now?
<Lns> yeah
<Lns> they work pretty well for situations like that =)
<Lns> i also genearally separate student homedirs from other teachers/admin staff
<Lns> so i usually put students in /home/students
<Lns> and then ACL that branch
<alkisg> So you're using ACLs in some production school and you had no major complains? Maybe I should also look into those then :)
<Lns> alkisg: oh man you haven't been using ACLs? they're awesome =)
<Lns> no, no complaints, just praise
<Lns> i made a video on acls on youtube
<alkisg> Nah, in my own schools I never needed any permissions at all, but some fellow teachers are asking for them
<Lns> gotcha
<alkisg> Oooh link link?! :)
<Lns> hahaha
<Lns> should be linked in the ACL tutuorial on the ubuntu wiki at the top..
<Lns> lemme find it
<Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ACLSupport
<Lns> youtube vid is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6piQXXHTmqk
<alkisg> Merci!
<alkisg> Ah, it's easy to listen to your video. I heard stgraber over skype once and I had a hard time understanding what he was saying.
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> yeah i used xvidcap for that video
<Lns> very nice software
<alkisg> Have you tried gtkrecordmydesktop?
<Lns> i don't recall, sounds familiar
<Lns> hmm looks nice!
<Lns> i think xvidcap is better suited for me though because i run VMs in a window and i can select the window only to record instead of the whole desktop
<Lns> so that way i can show me logging out/in, rebooting, etc.
<alkisg> Hmmm I think gtkrecordmydesktop also supports that, but I haven't tried xvidcap yet. I will now :)
<alkisg> (btw adduser is proposed instead of useradd)
<dissident> hi everyone
<alkisg> Hello
<Ahmuck> how do you put students into /home/students?
<Ahmuck> aren't all users created under /home?
<Ahmuck> so users' are still created under /home, but are controlled by acl
<Lns> Ahmuck: you can modify /etc/adduser.conf to make it default, specify home dir during user creation, or manually move already created ones and update /etc/passwd
<Ahmuck> ah, so you are creating a sepearte directory, /home/students
<Ahmuck> are users students unable to view each other's directories
<dissident> does anyone have any ideas why an ltsp-client would get stuck at the Edubuntu boot splash
<dissident> seems stuck in a loop
<Lns> Ahmuck: my own students can't go into each others' dirs, no
<Lns> dissident: have you gone through the troubleshooting steps?
<Lns> dissident: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
<dissident> thanks for that Lns
<dissident> plymouth
<dissident> Lns: working now thanks
<dissident> Lns: are you running LTSP? can you perhaps tell me a bit about your setup?
<Lns> dissident: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_SuccessStories#Logical_Networking_Solutions_-_Northern_California.2C_USA
<dissident> ta
<dissident> Lns: are you more involved in the infrastructure side of things, or the software (or rather, usage thereof) side of things
<dissident> um, the education side i guess
<Lns> dissident: I'm basically a sysadmin, not a coder - I run my business by installing and maintaining Linux/LTSP networks in schools.
<dissident> Lns: k
<alkisg> dissident: did you see any error messages after removing quiet/splash?
<dissident> alkisg: strangely enough
<dissident> i got a message about plymouth being killed
<dissident> um, i hit enter and it booted
<dissident> oO
<dissident> so i think the update to the image made the difference
<dissident> even though i'd previously done it
<alkisg> Heh, well if it works.. :)
<dissident> it does now hehe ta
<dissident> okay, question for main (highvoltage helped put me on the right track a week or so ago) - only thing, downloading a mirror would just ahve taken too long hehe.
<dissident> our funder came and gave the green flag for our Education centre today. I need to get this server back to the farm (200km from here) by Thursday, its currently at my house on an ADSL connection. I want to put as much useful softwaare onto the server before i return it (no internet at all on the farm the Lab is located at)
<dissident> Thursday I want to be able to demo whats possible. I know my way around the regular KDE based educational packages, as well as a few of the non-kde oriented ones.
<dissident> the primary goal of this lab is to narrow the digital divide to people from an impoverished rural community. at least 30% of the users will be functionally illiterate.
<dissident> i was hoping that you guys could share some of the tools you're using (and maybe how you're using them) at your labs?
<alkisg> dissident: you can pass "--download-only" to apt-get to retrieve packages without installing them.
<mhall119> wow, sounds like a really worthy endeavor
<alkisg> So e.g. if you think tuxpaint will be needed, but you're not sure, you can download it and install it locally afterwards, without any internet connection
<mhall119> you can use Keryx to create Apt-CDs for various packages
<dissident> oo, ta
<dissident> the project would be great, but people need to see what linux can offer
<dissident> what i'm really keen on knowing is which software packages are most commonly being used by the LTSP projects
<dissident> as a point of departure
<Lns> dissident: why not just burn Edubuntu CDs with the software on them to install later if you need to?
<dissident> Lns: do you mean the add on CDs as specified on the website?
<dissident> Lns: or do you mean with the specific software intended for the install?
<Lns> dissident: the CD/DVD images
<Lns> those contain all of the software, and you can install via CD/DVD later in apt
<dissident> i used the edubuntu dvd
<dissident> 10.04
<dissident> and did the standard installation (with LTSP installation afterward)
<Lns> ok
<dissident> via the script on the desktop
 * dissident hits the LTSP wiki
<dissident> maybe i should rephrase... in your LTSP deployments, which are your top 5 most used / most effective/ software packages?
<dissident> we'll be doing OpenOffice courses
<dissident> running an "offline" wikipedia as a basic encyclopedia
<Lns> dissident: mainly our students use Firefox, Open Office, a typing tutor, games.. younger students use things like GCompris (very good for learning computers)
<dissident> Lns: k, thanks. I see these are installed by default
<dissident> the -edu* packages
<Lns> right
<dissident> i'm assuming
<Ahmuck> Lns: where r u located?
<Ahmuck> scribus is a good package for ubuntu
<Lns> Ahmuck: northern california
<Ahmuck> however, it may not work well on ltsp, because of the imges
<Ahmuck> lns, interesting.  i'd think n cali would have went the ms way
<Lns> Ahmuck: they usually do. It's a struggle to get open source in around here - but people are starting to catch on like wildfire
<Lns> specially since our local economy is in the crapper =p
<alkisg> Here the economy is even worse; I wonder thought why the only stores that have people in them are the cafeterias... :D
<Lns> alkisg: that's right you're in greece?
<Lns> California is pretty close behind you as far as economic turmoil
<dissident> hehe
<dissident> no, here the government commits to open source
<dissident> but then the dept. of education offer a laptop subsidy to teachers (but only if they run windows)
<dissident> oO
<Lns> nothing like vendor lock-in via charity
<dissident> yup
<Ahmuck> that's because the subsidy is coming from ms
<Ahmuck> it's the same here
<Ahmuck> if you get your computers and software for free, then you start looking at compatibility, and training issues
<Lns> if MS wants to really be a charitable source for technology, why not offer the choice of OS installation?
<dissident> purely out of curiosity
<dissident> what do you think of Google's new OS?
<alkisg> Here they gave about 120.000 netbooks to students, and fortunately we manage to convince them to be dual boot (edubuntu/windows)
<dissident> supposed to be being released soon
<dissident> rather, their vision for their OS
<Lns> dissident: i wouldn't touch it until it's been out for a while
<Lns> alkisg: that is great
<dissident> ms gave the netbooks?
<alkisg> Nope
<dissident> k
<alkisg> Mostly a european fund, and also 25% local funds
<dissident> k
<mhall119> Lns: the reason MS wants to be charitable is because it benefits them
<Lns> mhall119: i know..i guess it was more of a rhetorical question
<mhall119> it's not just MS either, that's why any corporate gives to charity
<mhall119> it improves their "corporate image"
 * dissident should probably hit up BP for a donation sometime soon
<Lns> lol
<mhall119> but they won't undermine their products to boost their image
<mhall119> dissident: they're currently donating millions of gallons of oil to my shoreline, aren't they wonderful?
<Lns> hopefully BP will become a charity to renewable energy after this is over
<dissident> they're the best :-P
<dissident> ja, hopefully
<dissident> read something recently
<mhall119> Lns: I think BP has already been heavily investing in alternative fuels
<Lns> mhall119: that's good! they're smart
<dissident> should probably follow it up :-P
<mhall119> Lns: they are
<mhall119> they wouldn't be multi-billion dollar a year companies if they weren't
<Lns> i know cheveron has been doing solar powered gas stations out here a lot
<Lns> kinda paradoxical, but none the less a good gesture ;)
<mhall119> not really, solar is good for large stationary objects like stores
<mhall119> not so good for small, mobile objects like cars
<Ahmuck> google's os is cloud tech
<Ahmuck> vaporware i hope
<Lns> mhall119: true
 * Lns wonders if any electric cars employ wind turbines in their bumpers to re-power batteries
<dissident> Ahmuck: thats what i don't like about it
<Ahmuck> seriously, i don't want my personal info on the cloud
<dissident> exactly
<dissident> yet, you average user is going to be conned into doing just that
<dissident> because its "better", "easier" etc
<Lns> cloud computing has good use cases
<Lns> it's just not going to replace desktops and traditional server/client networks
<dissident> agreed
<mhall119> Lns: only if you properly define what "cloud computing means"
<Lns> its probably best for 'casual users' who don't work a lot on a computer
<dissident> i think for organizations its great
<Lns> cloud computing is usually defined as a service provider hosting everything.
<Lns> there are private clouds, but...i mean, really.
<mhall119> Lns: you need a definition that's different from a VPS in some way
<dissident> anyone here using schooltool?
<Ahmuck> outside of ltsp is there really a good server/client platform for edu?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: you mean like skolelinux?
<Lns> Ahmuck: DRBL
<Lns> i hear people talk about zero-clients and 4-to-1 stations here and there
<Lns> but LTSP, in my research anyway, has been the best of those choices
 * alkisg tried to use DRBL and had to reinstall Ubuntu afterwards :-/
<Ahmuck> has used drbl
<Ahmuck> have also heard of 1 machine, 4 clients
<Ahmuck> but i'm not sure i'd use ltsp either
<dissident> thanks for you inputs guys
 * dissident has his work cut out for him
<dissident> hehe
<dissident> night
<alkisg> Ahmuck: have you tried the LTSP fat client support in Lucid?
<alkisg> It's completely different, it doesn't transfer screens over the network...
<dgroos> alkisg: how come I can't find the 'install-LTSP' script on my desktop after install of edubuntu?
<dgroos> hmmmm...
 * alkisg has not tried to install ltsp from the edubuntu dvd yet...
<dgroos> Is there some way documented somewhere?
<dgroos> Would someone list the steps/commands for me?  I'll try it out, recording the details as it goes along and write them up on the ubuntu wiki.
#edubuntu 2010-06-22
<jussi> highvoltage: you about?
<Lns> Here's a thought... can we port the Ubuntu Netbook Remix (UNR) window manager to Edubuntu? It sure seems like it'd make a great, simple windowmanager. I'm thinking about doing this on Debian just to see how it goes.
#edubuntu 2010-06-23
<riggs498> I have skolelinux installed on the main server. is there a way I can get edubuntu to see that server with openldap? none of the stations use thinclient to connect to the server. The workstation is configure and the lins back to the server.
<riggs498> Does Edubuntu use ldap?
<riggs498> Is there anyone that can help me?
<Ahmuck> is musescore part of edubuntu?
<Lns> Hi everyone
<Lns> eww, chanserv welcome message is... intimidating. =p
<alkisg> Why?
<alkisg> Btw, is there a meeting today?
<alkisg> highvoltage: ^^?
<Lns> heh
<Lns> alkisg: have you seen UNR / netbook-launcher UI?
<alkisg> I've seen it, and I quickly removed it and installed the normal edition :D
<Lns> alkisg: (re: welcome msg..just like seeing cameras in a department store..makes you feel...watched lol)
<Lns> alkisg: haha!
<Lns> But wouldn't you agree it could be a very simplified UI for children?
<alkisg> I don't know, it makes me think that it's not a PC, it's just a mobile phone
<dgroos> Hey! just got back--meeting right?
<alkisg> Nope. My daughter, 9 years old then, didn't like it at all.
<alkisg> She preferred the normal UI. I think that UI is for 60 y.o. people, not for kids.
<Lns> alkisg: ok but its probably safe to say your daughter, at age 9, was also learning C++.. ;)
<alkisg> Heh :)
<Lns> dgroos: we haven't heard from highvoltage yet
<alkisg> Nah, I try to keep my kids away from PCs... I'm not doing a very good job, but still, not C++. Just python :P
<Lns> =p
<Lns> I dunno, I think it's a beautiful way to present applications to kids/teachers. It's very simple, no menu-surfing, if it were modularized away from UNR I could see thin clients using it in schools (at least elementary schools)
<Lns> For those who take 10 minutes to make sure their students are logging on with the right un/pw
<Lns> it's hard to have them all navigate through menus and stuff..also, the "Favorites" section woudl be great for commonly used websites/applications
<Lns> or directories
<alkisg> Kids nowadays are very used to the standard windows interface, even from small ages. This new interface may be OK for small touch screens, but I wouldn't prefer it with a mouse.
<alkisg> Directories are difficult, ok, but is that addressed by UNR?
<alkisg> E.g. tuxpaint addresses this, it doesn't offer a standard save dialog
<Lns> alkisg: the Favorites section is just like the other XDG menus (comes up at top) and is customizable for FF bookmarks, filesystem locations, and other stuff
<Lns> And you're right about touch screens - imagine a thin client touch screen LCD.
<Lns> Touch is "where things are going" and I think this kind of interface is going to integrate itself into desktops as well as notebooks/phones
<alkisg> Well, gnome already has a favorites menu for locations. It works better than windows at that stage when we try to teach them about organizing their work.
<alkisg> Touch is handy for *some* stuff. I wouldn't help *me* in my work though.
<Lns> sure =) but "better than windows" isn't our primary goal is it?
<Lns> alkisg: I'm not talking about you, i'm talking about young children ;)
<alkisg> Sure. But young children might also be doing some of the things I do.
<alkisg> I'm chatting now. My kids are also chatting in facebook. Why would they need a touch screen for that?
<Lns> I dunno, I just excited at the potential of that type of interface. A lot of feedback I got from teachers was simply making the UI easier for kids to navigate
<Lns> the apps would remain the same
<Lns> obviously
<alkisg> A touch screen would be nice to have for some activities, especially in very early ages (card matching etc).
<Lns> alkisg: i'm simply talking about navigating the GUI, not having touch integrated into all the apps
<Lns> mouse/touch combo
<alkisg> Or in some games. Or in a restaurant. But I don't think it would affect most of my lessons...
<alkisg> If you have to leave the mouse to touch the screen and vice versa, then this is a failed method
<Lns> meh :)
<Lns> I don't agree with that
<Lns> they are both useful, just like you said, it's handy for *some* stuff
<alkisg> It takes half a second to leave the mouse and touch the screen. It takes much less time to just move the mouse there.
<Lns> and having the choice of using touch or the mouse would provide the best choice
<alkisg> So, once I get in a touch screen enabled app, I shouldn't have to return to my mouse.
<alkisg> I should be only touching the screen for as long as I use this app.
<Lns> sure
<Lns> would make sense for countless games for youngsters
<alkisg> (except for some casual keyboard typing of course)
<alkisg> Yes, games are a very good candidate. But as a teacher I don't care much about them ;)
<Lns> my 21 month old son already tries to touch our LCD TV to do stuff on it...
<Lns> it's a natural integration into technology - normal physical handling of real objects and touching a screen to manipulate things
<Lns> but wouldn't you think that, as a teacher, you want the easiest method for launching and navigating an OS for kids?
<alkisg> Sure. It'll be very good when apps are ready for that.
<alkisg> But if OS navigation is touch-enabled, and the apps themselves aren't, I don't think it helps much
<Lns> ok, but if you had the *choice* of using touch or not (obviously not many ppl have touch screen LCDs attached to their desktops..yet).. the end result in either case would be an easy interface to launch applications and navigate files
<Lns> not only for kids, but if it were made to be easily customizable from the ground up, for many users, by teachers/etc (customizable themes, icons, categories).. that could seriously be a 'killer feature' of Edubuntu
<Lns> it looks different than ubuntu and therefore people distinguish it more clearly and see a use case
<alkisg> I believe the end result would be the same as working on a nintendo ds (except that our hands would tire more easily, as it's difficult to reach the screen all the time)
<alkisg> So ok, it's a feature, but I don't see it as a big evolution for PCs
<Lns> you don't think PCs are going to become more touch friendly in the future?
<Lns> ok take this hypothetical example...organizing your photo collection by dragging/dropping. Much easier with 2 fingers!
<alkisg> I think the capability will be there, but people will only use it in selected apps.
<Lns> of course.
<alkisg> The same as the new 3D screens.
<Lns> I dunno, I feel compelled to take this UI and modularize it so it can be installed in not-just-netbook-OSes
<dgroos> Have you seen the Croquet project?  It would provide a fascinating interface for both local files and external systems.
<alkisg> I do hope I get to see a keyboard-less and mouse-less PC, where I'll be able to talk to it to do stuff. Until then, I don't think I'll switch my keyboard/mouse easily... :)
<Lns> alkisg: not a 0 or 1 situation ;)
<Lns> people said the same thing when the mouse was invented
<Lns> and the car
<Lns> "Get a horse!"
<alkisg> The mouse has 2 dimentions. The keyboard doesn't.
<alkisg> A touch screen has 2 dimentions. We already have that.
<dgroos> it is kind of like a 3-d concept mapping software but is a way to navigate in a shared space across the internet with others.
<dgroos> Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_Project
<Lns> dgroos: wasn't that some Java-based Sun project?
<dgroos> That would provide a real reason to enable another way of interfacing with the computer.
<dgroos> No, it is squeek-based and was created by the some big open source names--check towards the bottom of the wikipedia page.
<dgroos> I haven't paid it much attention in the last few years as I've been busy learning other stuff--looks like it has come of age and is now part of the open Cobalt project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Cobalt
<dgroos> I really think that wisely scaffolded collaboration tools are going to be enabling a big change in what happens in science classes (and I'd guess in other disciplines) as well.
<Lns> dgroos: that seems like a very radical change in how you interfact
<Lns> interact*
<dgroos> Yes, imagine going through some object on the screen and entering another view that is shared by another group of people--in real time and in 3-d.  That would be an interesting concept of chat room!
<dgroos> Lns: Using an interface like this would provide new utility for a touch screen, I'd say.
<Lns> sure
<Lns> dgroos: what is this "object" you would speak of, though, that people would be interacting with? What's the benefit ?
<dgroos> As I understand, one stands in a 3-d space, represented by an avatar.  There are 'objects' around one--like windows or screens-- these can be 2-d objects such as the example of the google analytics screen shown on the cobalt page.
<dgroos> They can also be portals into another virtual world.  You can walk up to that object/portal, look through it into the other world, see others/object in that world.
<dgroos> you can go through the object, enter the other world in a 3-d way and this could be another collaborative space with shared objects eg jpgs, videos, text etc.
<Lns> hmmm..sounds like something that would probably catch on in another 5-10 years :)
<dgroos> right :) another reason why I haven't been following it too closely.
<Lns> I think that this type of interface would be more of what alkisg is talking about regarding requiring applications that support the type of interaction it provides
<dgroos> But, it would make an awesome interface for concept mapping--being able to move about (such as swim) through a shared concept map would be inspiring!
<Lns> seems kind of pointless to have a 3D space with a bunch of 2D apps
<Lns> but i do see a lot of potential regarding apps that support that kind of stuff
<Lns> and their integration with the OS UI
<Lns> would make OS/applications much more integrated with each other
<dgroos> Yes, it would be an interesting way to interact with taxonomies of knowledge.
<Lns> so...no meeting i guess =)
#edubuntu 2011-06-20
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<Guest306> Anybody know of an open-source alternative to Reading Rocket?
#edubuntu 2011-06-21
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<vmlintu> highvoltage: I've got now a puavo demo setup done for you
<highvoltage> vmlintu: nice!
<vmlintu> I'll send you details and we can go through it
<vmlintu> I have to run now, but I should have time for this tomorrow
<vmlintu> We should also get bunch of ldap integration howtos done next month
#edubuntu 2011-06-22
<mhall119> stgraber: ping
<mhall119> stgraber: http://mhall119.com/2011/06/pastebinit-for-tomboy-notes/
<highvoltage> good morning
<alkisg> $ echo hi | pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net
<alkisg> http://paste.debian.net/
<alkisg> stgraber: shouldn't that produce my paste URL instead of just http://paste.debian.net ?
<stgraber> alkisg: no, paste.debian.net needs at least 3 lines of text
<alkisg> Aaaaah thanks :)
<alkisg> $ pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net /bin/zmore
<alkisg> http://paste.debian.net/120669/
<alkisg> Yup, works fine
<stgraber> yeah, paste.debian.net is weird like that :)
<alkisg> A notice about it would be cool though - maybe in some future version ;)
<stgraber> yeah, I have a full rewrite of pastebinit that should make handling that easier :)
#edubuntu 2011-06-23
<pedronveloso> has anyone had ever connected a digital camera to access files under a LTSP implementation?
#edubuntu 2011-06-24
<komputes> I have some terminals which require a custom xorg.conf. Where should I place this xorg.conf, which lts.conf should I edit and what should the syntax/path look like?
<alkisg> For future pastebinit versions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_pastebins
#edubuntu 2012-06-19
<bencer_> highvoltage: ping me back when you are around
#edubuntu 2012-06-20
<highvoltage> stgraber: so.
<highvoltage> stgraber: I want to start putting the seeds together for the kubuntu tablet builds
<highvoltage> stgraber: so that we could have them start building
<highvoltage> s/kubuntu/edubuntu/g
<highvoltage> stgraber: going to look at what they did at https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu-active.precise
<highvoltage> stgraber: any thoughts?
<stgraber> highvoltage: do we actually need to change anything in our seeds?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'll probably be able to tell you that in a minute or so
<stgraber> highvoltage: AFAICT the only thing we'll want to change is disabling edubuntu-netboot/ltsp-live
<stgraber> highvoltage: the rest will be identical as I'm expecting us to use an sdcard as install media with the live environment and /pool like on a DVD, then have it install to the internal storage
<highvoltage> * !linux-image-*                # xorg transitively depends on this, but this would pull in grub-pc; we handle that separately
<highvoltage> not sure if that bit is relevant (since we wouldn't want grub)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, so it's definitely not going to use the expand thingy anymore?
<stgraber> highvoltage: unless we want it to always boot from sdcard, we definitely don't want that
<stgraber> highvoltage: and as ubuntu is moving away from it, I'm not sure we want to end up maintaining it anyway
<highvoltage> ok, since the zatab has internal storage it seems reasonable to do it like that
<stgraber> highvoltage: any progress on getting the hardware btw?
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes it's ordered
<highvoltage> stgraber: there was a problem with the form on the website where we didn't get the discount on the first try, but it's been fixed
<highvoltage> hopefully we won't get any further delays with customs
<stgraber> with alpha-2 being next week, I'm starting to become a bit nervous about that tablet build ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: me too, especially since the kernel for it isn't in universe yet, I'm talking to the kubuntu folk to see what we could work out
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm not that failiar with packaging kernel modules and it's slightly tricky since some of the modules would need to go into multiverse
<stgraber> highvoltage: right... sounds like we won't have it for alpha2...
<highvoltage> stgraber: but I'd like to get builds going so long. I just want to confirm something... the binaries (except for the kernel) will be the same for that as on the pandaboard, right? (the same armhf executables?)
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: could we perhaps use the pandaboard kernel in the meantime just to check and find other bugs in the meantime?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I can probably do an omap4 build once ogra_ is done landing the live image changes
<stgraber> ogra_: ^
<highvoltage> stgraber: that would be nice. can the pandaboard boot from USB? (since it's storage is sd card to begin with?)
<highvoltage> well I guess testing from a live environment would be sufficient for now anyway
<stgraber> highvoltage: I think so, otherwise you can boot from sdcard, install to another sdcard that's plugged in USB, then swap
 * highvoltage wonders if kubuntu active is going to have an alpha 2
<highvoltage> ah right
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'd really like to have *a* image for alpha2, even if it's not perfect or working properly in any meaningful way, at least it would also give us a point of reference for the work that needs to be done for the next alpha
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I'm having a quick look in the cdimage branches to see what's needed to build Edubuntu for omap4, if it's not a gigantic diff, I may steal an armhf builder and do a quick test build
<stgraber> highvoltage: actually wondering if there's anything to do besides kicking a build ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: the archive is a bit broken at the moment so I can really test it though
<highvoltage> stgraber: well, I guess we need uboot instead of grub but I can't think of anything else specific at this point
<stgraber> highvoltage: we're not seeding grub AFAIK so that's not a problem
<highvoltage> stgraber: for edubuntu server, I guess we'll support i386 and amd64 since the desktop media will be for both and we're shipping it alongside that?
<highvoltage> (just want to be sure that I'm not just assuming anything)
<highvoltage> (I'd actually be ok with amd64 only for servers but I guess that would be too tricky, shipping-wise)
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, technically the installer on arm could support it but I don't think we want that ;)
<highvoltage> yeah, maybe for 14.04 :)
<highvoltage> oic
<stgraber> we'd need hardware for an arm server build, I don't feel like asking people to use a pandaboard
<highvoltage> yeah, so how about my i386/amd64 question?
<highvoltage> let me rephrase, I can see how I could have been a bit unclear
<highvoltage> stgraber: we're supporting i386 for edubuntu server too, right?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, our build scripts are already weird enough wrt architectures, don't want to introduce an extra hack in there ;)
<stgraber> besides it wouldn't save us much to only ship on amd64 as it wouldn't reduce the number of media being built
<highvoltage> yeah
<stgraber> do you have any news from the zentyal guys? we're kind of waiting on the samba4 support stuff to implement edubuntu server ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: is it a big deal getting those squashfs's built already? I guess the ltsp scripts could be recycled somewhat? I know that ubiquity needs some work, but it would be kind of nice having those images kind of building already
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah, indeed. I'll have solid news on that next week. from what I understand the samba4 parts are working, but I'm fuzzy on the exact extent of the schooltool integration that's currently working
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm still not sure of the exact architecture we want for edubuntu server so can't really work on the seeds or the build scripts until that's done
<stgraber> highvoltage: at least I have commit rights to most of them now, so should be easy to land whenever we know how we want to build that stuff
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'd feel kind of more easy about it even just having a minimal debootstrapped ubuntu in there
<highvoltage> stgraber: because I know that gets harder to do the further we get along the cycle
<stgraber> highvoltage: for example, I don't know if we want to have the installer create the containers and setup all that stuff or if we should have these preinstall in the squashfs
<stgraber> because we'll basically end up shipping an ubuntu system for Edubuntu itself, another for the ltsp chroot, another for the server, another as the lxc template and one per container ;)
<highvoltage> it depends. we want off-line installations to be possible. so if the containers don't already exist then the packages should be shipped on the disc
<highvoltage> stgraber: wouldn't it make sense then to create the containers instead?
<stgraber> I think shipping one big squashfs is the easiest, using squashfs to solve the data duplication problem
<highvoltage> stgraber: because it would get a bit bit if we ship multiple containers? or would they use overlayfs or something?
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> the problem is that we then need to have all our server build happen on a buildd without internet connectivity and without being able to start the containers on it
<highvoltage> that seems to pretty much rule that option out for the immediate future then, doesn't it?
<stgraber> highvoltage: for alpha-2, definitely, for alpha-3, not necessarily, depends how much time you can spend on it ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: we essentially need to introduce a package that contains a script used to build edubuntu-server, then push that to the archive and then I can update our build process for it
<highvoltage> I feel that we should discuss this tonight :)
<stgraber> that package (edubuntu-server-base or something like that) would depend on everything that the "host" needs and ship a command that'll build all the containers without ever starting them
<highvoltage> yeah that sounds reasonable
<stgraber> worst case scenario we can just ship a squashfs with that package installed and have the user run the command post-install
<stgraber> best case scenario, that command gets run on the buildds and everything gets preinstall in the squashfs
<highvoltage> yeah I was going to mention that as a possibility too
<highvoltage> have something basic and flexible but easy to extend based on the requirements. I'm /almost/ be satisfied if the first iteration of edubuntu server is just a nice lxc host, but it should be possible to do better than that, at least :)
<highvoltage> ogra_: are you around?
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1051408/
<highvoltage> ".1 - .9 is reserved for servers"
<highvoltage> what kind of servers?
<stgraber> LTSP or secondary edubuntu servers
<highvoltage> ah, physical servers then?
<stgraber> yeah
<highvoltage> I like it.
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, I'm starting to think that we won't be able to ship the containers on the media because we won't know the domain name or subnet at that time
<stgraber> highvoltage: and it seems easier to call the whole build script at install time rather than trying to patch a preinstalled system
<stgraber> highvoltage: so we could have the .squashfs ship the host without the containers but with a basic tpl-edubuntu-server container that contains our base install and gets copied to all the others
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'll have to take your word for it, I don't have enough insight yet to judge the amount of work for either. prebuilt could probably be templated somewhat... but yes I kind of like the idea that they're built at install time anyway
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes that sounds very, very good
<highvoltage> (and very sensible)
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://pad.ubuntu.com/edubuntu-server-quantal
<highvoltage> stgraber: is nesting containers safe? (not just in terms of how it works, but is it in any way confusing or problematic implementatin wise?)
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's slightly dangerous but not scary
<stgraber> highvoltage: essentially the first level (juju in this case) will be able to bypass the cgroup restrictions
<stgraber> IIRC the sub-containers are still moved to the same usual apparmor profile so they're as safe as usual
<highvoltage> ok
#edubuntu 2012-06-21
<qwebirc946612> Code 5
<XDS2010> http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/eyes/ , Can someone check to see if the unity4 debug option will run this
<XDS2010> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/finally-unity-3d-game-engine-adds-linux.html
<XDS2010> I've been using  (warning ad on page)  http://scale2.s3.amazonaws.com/scale2.swf , but would like to switch to ETS in the library
<XDS2010> also note quarks are missing in that graphic
<stgraber> ogra_: around?
 * ogra_ pretends to at least :)
<stgraber> hehe
<ogra_> what can i do for you ?
<stgraber> ogra_: not sure if you saw the scrollback. Basically I'll be doing a test build of Edubuntu desktop omap4 today for now using the preinstalled stuff as AFAICS the live images aren't there yet.
<ogra_> yeah, live will hopefully  only be a switch of the cron call
<stgraber> ogra_: our planned target platform is going to be the ZaPad that we should have delivered over the next few days (no hardware makes things difficult)
<ogra_> i planned to test that later today or tomorrow and see what comes out of such a build
<stgraber> ogra_: we'll be receiving 5 units for Edubuntu development and we thought it'd be useful to have one of these be sent to you if you're interested
<ogra_> the zapad is omap4 ?
<ogra_> is it lifepad based ?
<ogra_> i think aldi sells it here under the medion brand
<stgraber> *zatab (sorry my brain is still booting up ;))
<stgraber> ogra_: http://zareason.com/shop/zatab.html
<ogra_> Allwinner A10 SoC
<ogra_> omap4 images wont get you very far with that
<stgraber> I know, the omap4 build is to check how bad the rest of Edubuntu works on armhf ;)
<ogra_> you will need a kernel and a bootloader in the archive to build proper images
<stgraber> when we actually get the hardware we'll need to get kernel/bootloader/drivers in the archive and then we'll be able to get a proper build
<ogra_> ah, i wouldnt expect any arch specific breakage there
<ogra_> only speed issues
<stgraber> the kubuntu folks are also going with the zatab and apparently already have a kernel/bootloader that works, they're just fighting with video issues
<highvoltage> yeah kubuntu is working on getting the kernel from https://github.com/allwinner-dev-team/android_device_allwinner_zatab in universe with some modules in multiverse
<highvoltage> ogra_: it's a slow chip?
<ogra_> highvoltage, its a cortex-a8 ...
<ogra_> single core CPU
<ogra_> (pandaboards are a9 dual core)
<stgraber> yeah, it looks like it's a pretty well specced a8 so the fact that it's single core will be a bit of a pain, hopefully I/Os are better than on the pandaboard though as it's our biggest bottleneck
<stgraber> (well, comparing to a pandaboard using an sdcard, not using usb)
<ogra_> well, normally you find eMMC's in such devices
<ogra_> thats not faster than SD
<stgraber> even if there are faster platforms, it's still an interesting product as it's sold by a linux friendly company that's already selling Edubuntu preinstalled on machines, so there's some potential of getting a tablet with Edubuntu preinstalled
<ogra_> right
<highvoltage> ogra_: at least it's more of a development tablet / proof of concept rather than something we'd tell people to use in production. so I guess we could live with performance issues until something better comes along.
<highvoltage> ogra_: the goal is to have something that's more or less useful in educational environments by 14.04 LTS
<ogra_> sure, i'm not complaining or anything :)
<ogra_> you asked how the CPU is compared to others :)
<highvoltage> I didn't think you were, and I like to get the comparison info :)
<highvoltage> (but I thought it would be worth well stating our intentions anyway)
<highvoltage> s/well/while/g
<highvoltage> (sorry the coffee isn't working yet)
<ogra_> until 14.04 you will likely see a lot of better HW though
<ogra_> I/O shouldnt be an issue anymore and you will likely use quad cores as a std.
<highvoltage> that's what I'm hoping for :)
<ogra_> (and your phone in your pocket is probably already a computing cluster by then)
<stgraber> ogra_: so anyway, as I was saying, if you're interested in playing with that hardware, we'll have one unit we can ship to you
<ogra_> sure, i'm always intrested in HW to play with ;)
<highvoltage> cool :)
<ogra_> and happy to help once we have bootloader and kernel
<stgraber> ogra_: apparently the kubuntu folks do, it's "just
<stgraber> " a matter of getting it in the archive :)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> they did the n900 kernel before iirc
<stgraber> yeah
<ogra_> so they just need to copy their former work
<ogra_> and change the names
<stgraber> ogra_: btw, do you happen to know how to restrict the build of an image to only a subset of the architectures on nusakan? I just triggered an edubuntu daily-preinstalled build but even though etc/default-arches says to only build armhf+omap4 I'm seeing it build for both omap and omap4...
<ogra_> hmm, i always get etc/default-arches wrong, the pattern matching is usually different than i think :)
<stgraber> that could explain why it seems to have been ignored ;)
<stgraber> +edubuntu		daily-preinstalled	quantal			amrhf+omap4
<ogra_> "theoretically" adding armhf+omap4 in the last column should do it though
<stgraber> that seemed trivial but doesn't seem to match ;)
<stgraber> gah, typo
<stgraber> not sure why a typo in "armhf" would make it build for both omap and omap4 though, but anyway, fixed the typo, maybe that'll help :)
<ogra_> yeah, the typo wont help :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: looks like edubuntu built on armhf
<highvoltage> stgraber: link?
<stgraber> not published yet, I'm just looking at the build log on the builder
<highvoltage> k
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-preinstalled/20120621/
<stgraber> highvoltage: ignore the oversize warning, I'll need to tweak it not to warn for these :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll have it running on a pandaboard in 15min
<stgraber> highvoltage: just checking, you're not filling like dropping all our milestones and testing every two weeks right?
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm?
<stgraber> highvoltage: *feeling
<highvoltage> stgraber: milestones = good
<stgraber> ok ;) I'm preparing a reply with Edubuntu's point of view on the whole testing/milestone stuff as Robbie asked for opinions from the other flavours
<highvoltage> I pretty much test weekly (when we have images atm), but can't gaurantee that I'll always have time to, but I agree with you about the usual testing/milestone stuff :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes, please provide the official edubuntu response
<stgraber> highvoltage: replied, hope you agree with it. I tried not to be too harsh ;)
 * highvoltage eagerly clicks on "get mail"
<ajmitch> highvoltage: so I've still got my zatab sitting in my bag just running android, I want to do more with it :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: <clippy> It looks like you're looking for work! </clippy> :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: so, this is the kernel that needs to go into universe: https://github.com/allwinner-dev-team/android_device_allwinner_zatab
<ajmitch> looking for something other than the thrill & excitement that is reviewing ARB submissions ;)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: totally understandable :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: it has some non-free bits listed on https://github.com/allwinner-dev-team/android_device_allwinner_zatab/blob/ics/proprietary-files.txt
<highvoltage> they would need to go in seperate packages so that they could go into multiverse
<highvoltage> stgraber built the first arm image today, if you have something like a pandaboard you could install it and test our apps under ARM
<ajmitch> not sure that the 3G modem is relevant, the zatab doesn't have one afaik
<ajmitch> sadly the zatab is the only modern ARM hardware I have
<highvoltage> *nod* the 3g drivers coult be skipped
<highvoltage> I can't think of something you could do in the meantime until we have it booting with its proper kernel modules loaded
<highvoltage> I think we might only have something by alpha3
<ajmitch> I'm not surprised
<ajmitch> I've got a 32GB microSD card in mine, info on writing an image & booting it is a little scant
<highvoltage> I guess ZAearl will help us a bit with that :)
<ajmitch> hopefully
 * ajmitch needs to fly up to wellington & visit them :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: but I like that you're available to help, we'll need you soon :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to one day use the driver from http://limadriver.org/ but it's not yet mature enough, apparantly
<highvoltage> my "one day" dreams is actually just to use nice fast hardware that "just works" with free drivers :)
<highvoltage> (I'm secretly hoping for that for 14.04)
<ajmitch> right, and a lot of this current hardware seems to use that chip :)
<ajmitch> this single-core cpu in the zatab doesn't quite qualify as 'fast'
#edubuntu 2012-06-22
<stgraber> highvoltage: lp~edubuntu-dev/edubuntu/edubuntu-server
<highvoltage> cool.
<highvoltage> stgraber: which ppa should I use (and which package) for the python lxc stuff? (I know you mentioned it before but I didn't take notes :p)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ppa:stgraber/experimental
<stgraber> highvoltage: upgrading from it will give you an extra liblxc0 package by default, you can then install python3-lxc
<stgraber> highvoltage: remember to update frequently as new features tend to land 2-3 times a day ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: is it safe?
<highvoltage> (well, reasonably safe? :) )
<stgraber> yeah, that's what I'm using on my laptop
<highvoltage> cool
<stgraber> not running it in production mostly because I don't have a need for it and I don't like having it upgrade every few hours
<stgraber> highvoltage: just uploaded a new snapshot (using the C implementation of .create()) but the function works in a very similar way as its python equivalent so you probably won't even notice the change
<highvoltage> k
#edubuntu 2012-06-24
<plantman> hello. I'm becoming a special ed teacher in NYC
<plantman> and I'm interested in using edubuntu...I can't find much information online unfortunately
<highvoltage> hi plantman
<highvoltage> we're busy redoing the edubuntu website so if there's any information that we should include on there, we'll try to fix it :)
<plantman> I'm reading over listserv archives...finding some good stuff
<highvoltage> (well, more like 'some major updates' rather than 'redoing', but still :) )
#edubuntu 2013-06-17
<middelweb> hi there. my wifi connection is interrupted. router and hab are fine as i am writing from my tablet. it used to work earlier this morning. the wifi icon is fine and status says it is connected. pleease help me
<middelweb> (edubuntu 13 ltsp)
<middelweb> i have taken the powerplug off the router for 10 sec
#edubuntu 2013-06-19
<jbicha> hi, could you update edubuntu-desktop to depend on gnome-session-flashback instead of gnome-session-fallback?
<stgraber> jbicha: that package doesn't appear to exist
<stgraber> jbicha: or is it stuck in -proposed?
<jbicha> stgraber: it just landed in the new queue
<stgraber> jbicha: ok. Is it just a rename or is there something different about it?
<stgraber> jbicha: I guess we'll need to update all the matching strings, lightdm config, ...?
<jbicha> oh I didn't think about all of that but yes
<jbicha> it's a complete rename, everything that says fallback should say flashback now
<stgraber> right, so we'll need changes in 2-3 other packages then and carefuly think about how to deal with upgrades...
<stgraber> so not something I'll do just now then, will try to find some time to look into that soonish
<Lex> hello there
<jbicha> stgraber: I guess we'd want to use dh-migrations for that and that it should be done in the gnome-session package
<jbicha> uh, I mean gnome-panel since that's where the session files are now
<stgraber> it's a rather tricky migration, because you'll need to go and update the default session in any DM (at least lightdm for us) where it may be set and in any user's .dmrc or /var/lib/<whatever>/dmrc/...
<jbicha> where in /var/lib/ ? I was thinking only ~/.dmrc needed to be migrated
<jbicha> edubuntu defaults to Unity right? otherwise there also is gsettings org.gnome.desktop.session session-name
<stgraber> jbicha: we default to unity but if the user chooses the classic mode in our installer, we set it as the default session in lightdm, so we need to detect and migrate that too
<stgraber> jbicha: I was thinking of /var/lib/AccountsService/users/* actually. But maybe just .dmrc is enough.
<stgraber> jbicha: I had weird cases where .dmrc changes done while the session is open are overriden on logout by the previous value, so we'd have to test this to make sure it's reliable
#edubuntu 2013-06-20
<LFS> hey
<jbicha> stgraber: I think upgrades will work now with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu8
<jbicha> this is completely untested but I think you need something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5784428/
<stgraber> jbicha: so does that mean that we'll get both gnome-fallback and gnome-flashback under /usr/share/xsession or just gnome-fallback?
<jbicha> just fallback
<stgraber> right, then we need way less changes to edubuntu-live as it'll remain gnome-fallback in lightdm and ldm
<stgraber> so only that commented line (which calls gnome-session) and the installer text would have to be changed
<jbicha> I'm not sure, see also http://paste.ubuntu.com/5784488/
<stgraber> jbicha: right, that's fine, that's gnome-session internal details, everything else refers to the xsession name
#edubuntu 2013-06-21
<Guest48618> greets, what is the best way to manipulate and manage desktop for user/groups
<Guest48618> Also, would like to know how to apply proxy settings to all user accounts / think clients
#edubuntu 2014-06-16
<suriya_V> hi
<suriya_V> what's new in ubuntu?
<suriya_V> :)
#edubuntu 2014-06-17
<kiriakos_> hello :)  !
#edubuntu 2014-06-18
<metiu> I just installed edubuntu on my daughter's laptop. Is there a nicer way of listing installed software other than searching through unity? It's her first PC and she doesn't know what to look for, probably she'd rather explore a menu
<highvoltage> metiu: not sure if you can get a menu in unity, personally I would probably install the gnome flashback session, it's the alternative desktop environment in Edubuntu and it uses a more classical style menu that's easier to explore
<highvoltage> metiu: if you search for 'flashback' in ubuntu software center you can select and install the package called gnome-session-flashback, and then log out and choose it from the login screen
<ogra_> i think there is an indicator that brings a menu ...
<ogra_> classicmenu-indicator ?
<metiu> highvoltage: thank you, I chose unity since the laptop is a rather new one, but yeah I think I'll switch to flashback session, it's more than enough anyway
<metiu> ogra_: I'll try the indicator to see if it can be the best of both worlds
 * highvoltage tries it out too
<stgraber> highvoltage: note that flashback is installed by default, you just have to choose it at login time
<highvoltage> ah right, I forgot about that
#edubuntu 2014-06-19
<micha_> hi anybody! need help with 14.04 nbd and reboot thinclient
#edubuntu 2014-06-21
<deepsadhi> i have server with one nic card, router from where internet comes, and a switch....LTSP without connecting of internet wire on switch works perfectly fine...but i am not being able to run LTSP with internet connection
<deepsadhi> could any one please help me
<deepsadhi> i think i am having problem with two dhcp...one of router and one of ltsp...
<deepsadhi> can anyone guide me...provide me link....where i could solve this...
<deepsadhi> please
#edubuntu 2014-06-22
<myike> hello
#edubuntu 2015-06-20
<KcoreApesta> i have a problemm with kcore file in ubuntu... is too large and can't reduce, you have any idea over how reduce this file
<KcoreApesta> i have a problemm with kcore file in ubuntu... is too large and can't reduce, you have any idea over how reduce this file
#edubuntu 2017-06-20
<oPTIPLEX740> GOOD NIGHTS AMIG @ S,  I HAVE A PROBLEM INSTALLING ANY VERSION OF LINUX IN A DELL OPTIPLEX 740, I HAVE TO PERFORM THE INSTALLATION FOR A 10 PCS THAT I WILL DONATE A SCHOOL TO START THE PEQUEES IN FREE SOFTEARE, BUT I DO NOT PEGO OR ONE TO INSTALL IT ... I AM A POINT TO TAKE THE GUIDE ... AND TO TAKE RECYCLED TEAMS
<oPTIPLEX740> Goodnight,  I would like a help for the recommended installation of some linux, I am trying to install deferent versions of linux in an optiplex 740 and none of them works I get error in graphics and it stays in black the screen. Are about 10 pcs to donate in the school where I have my little ones, to start the kids in free software ..  some help...  In advance thank you very much and forgive the inconvenience
#edubuntu 2017-06-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: libpodofo [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.9.5-5] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-06-20
<deck> Is it possible to port edubuntu packages to debian?
#edubuntu 2018-06-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.2-4-g05926e48-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 18.3-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [18.2-4-g05926e48-0ubuntu1~17.10.2 => 18.3-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [18.2-27-g6ef92c98-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.3-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-06-17
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (disco-proposed/universe) [2.0.12+dfsg1-2 => 2.0.12+dfsg1-2ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu1 => 2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu0.18.04.1 => 2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu0.18.04.2] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (disco-proposed/universe) [2.0.12+dfsg1-2 => 2.0.12+dfsg1-2ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2020-06-21
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-applets (focal-proposed/universe) [3.36.2-1 => 3.36.4-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu)
