#ubuntu-discuss 2013-04-15
<WHAT_UP1> why is Xubuntu 12.04 LTS only supported for 3 years?
<Calinou> less manpower
<Calinou> be happy, short term versions will be supported for 9 months as of 13.04
<Calinou> this doesn't make them bad, you still have 3 months to upgrade
<Calinou> WHAT_UP1: you can still install ubuntu 12.04 then install xfce
<Calinou> for 5 years
<WHAT_UP1> 3 months to upgrade :P
<WHAT_UP1> i was running 10.04 until a couple weeks ago
<Calinou> so old
<leptone> can anyone recommended one of these OCR tools: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OCR
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-04-16
<DigiDuncan> Hello?
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-04-20
<SonikkuAmerica> So with the systray whitelist going in 13.04, I can foresee a VERY limited systray experience. What is the whole point of this?
<Calinou> solution: use xubuntu
<Calinou> and enjoy your troll life
<Calinou> please troll about the AMD drivers now
<SonikkuAmerica> I take it you people get that question a lot... lol
<SonikkuAmerica> Aaaand... I can't troll about the AMD drivers. I have an Intel 865.
<SonikkuAmerica> *965
<SonikkuAmerica> Thanks for your input... :P
<Calinou> see, you have a low end intel IGP and you troll
<Calinou> you need a nvidia card to troll
<Calinou> it's a troll license
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-04-17
<ahhmarr> hey any news when trusty will be up on the website
<ahhmarr> its 17 already
<zencoder> So... today is April 17th, right?
<zencoder> ;)
<zencoder> At least in most of the world at this point...
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<lotuspsychje> new kernel is out:
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/04/linux-kernel-4-0-new-features
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<OerHeks> Hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks
<BluesKaj> what's up today ?
<OerHeks> monday morning issues, nothing special.
<OerHeks> In our dutch channel wants someone to mount a hdd in a VM to scan into a window7 vm for lost files :-D
<OerHeks> really .. i need more coffee now
<BluesKaj> that's a good idea
 * BluesKaj heads to the kitchen for more coffee
 * OerHeks shuffles to the kitchen too
<lordievader> That is so not going to work...
<lordievader> He lost his files. He just needs to accept that.
<BluesKaj> found a dvd I
<BluesKaj> been looking for
<BluesKaj> for ages .. 2002 vintage , Deep Purple, The making of Machine Head
<BluesKaj> altho the actual footage is from 1972 era
<BluesKaj> oops wrong chat :)
<daftykins> hehe
<OerHeks> my internet is so fast, just heard ABBA split up
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, ;-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> tnx :p
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Ubuntu-Touch-for-OnePlus-One-Port-Gets-WiFi-Support-478287.shtml
<lotuspsychje> gr33n7007h: welcome
<gr33n7007h> didn't even notice you pm'd me not got channel listing up not set up weechat as of yet :)
<gr33n7007h> noticed it by luck
 * gr33n7007h needs to fully set up is irc client
<gr33n7007h> lotuspsychje: thanks for the invite
<lotuspsychje> gr33n7007h: no sweat mate, tought your query was set to off :p
<lotuspsychje> the idea is, we see alot of active supporters in #ubuntu helping others, but never chat to each other
<lotuspsychje> this might have positive changes
<gr33n7007h> yeah, sounds like a great idea
<lotuspsychje> tnx and great to have you here
<gr33n7007h> cheers
<gr33n7007h> Where ever did ActionParsnip go to?
<lotuspsychje> i see him rarely
<lotuspsychje> some guys did a lot of support in the past and some dissapeared
<lotuspsychje> like dr_willis
<lotuspsychje> never saw him either
<gr33n7007h> ah, yeah dr_willis remeber him to
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lordievader> good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello mate
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great and you?
<lotuspsychje> nice sunshine today
<lordievader> Got a coffee next to me, guess I'm doing allright.
<lotuspsychje> yummy
<lordievader> :)
<MonkeyDust> coffe gives meaning to my life
<lordievader> http://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/32gzld/you_left_without_fixing_it/
<lotuspsychje> coffee with an ubuntu cookie :p
 * lordievader slides a mug of "meaning of life" to MonkeyDust 
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: morning mate
<BluesKaj> HI all
<BluesKaj> 'Morning lotuspsychje, what's happening today ?
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: new article on softpedia, they fixxed wifi on oneplusone phone (ubuntu touch)
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Ubuntu-Touch-for-OnePlus-One-Port-Gets-WiFi-Support-478287.shtml
<BluesKaj> I must be getting old ...don't have desire for a "smartphone"
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well i have a nexus7 with touch on, very happy with it
<lotuspsychje> small tablet can be usefull sometimes
<lotuspsychje> quick checking your emails while you watch tv
<BluesKaj> heh, my pc monitor is my tv
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> you got a myth tv ubuntu?
<BluesKaj> it's an actual tv, not a pc monitor, no mythtv I have a sat service
<lotuspsychje> ah cool
<BluesKaj> in the boonies , otherwise I probly would have mythtv
<lotuspsychje> i like the way ubuntu spreads on hardware these days
<BluesKaj> mythtv is good for large cities where there are lots of free ota siganals
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: your sat is connected to internet also?
 * lordievader still has a dumb phone
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: me also a cheap 50 euro nokia :p
<lotuspsychje> but it can make calls!
<lordievader> Don't think mine was ever worth 50 euros XD
<lotuspsychje> lool
<BluesKaj> my sat is connected , but it's only used for the program guide updates
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: did you doublecheck if it cant be exploited or remote takeover
<lotuspsychje> mostly those sats are setup with weak l:p on telnet
<lordievader> Exploited in Canda?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, no I haven't , but Bell Canada is quite proprietary and theur pvrs are tightly locked
<BluesKaj> their pvrs
<lotuspsychje> what brand of sat is this?
<lotuspsychje> in the netherlands they use many dreambox and those have weak login:pass
<lordievader> http://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/32igvt/a_special_congrats_to_my_mother/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: your reading weird things on the net :p
<lotuspsychje> i installed ubuntu on my fathers pc, he's also 78 year and he never been able to crash it
<lotuspsychje> with windows on, i had to come back every month to fix lol
<lordievader> ?
<OerHeks> Oh, now you see him with crhistmass only?
<lordievader> It's just tfts on reddit.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: lol
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I can't find out who actually makes the pvr , althjo it's the same maker as Dish network in the US . Scientific Atlanta made the old models , but the newer HD pvrs are amystery to me .
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i would do an nmap on yourself to check if the sat telnet is open
<BluesKaj> it's seen by the router
<BluesKaj> I'll nmap as soon the system is finished upgrading ...I need to install nmap
<lotuspsychje> okay :p
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: in the past it was easy to telnet into dreambox with default telnet pass, and even watch the sattelite over-web
<BluesKaj> not here
<lotuspsychje> okay :p
<lordievader> How about not forwarding port, what is it, 21?
<BluesKaj> at least so I've been told , never tried to telnet into the pvr so I can't be absolutely sure, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> i would surely doublecheck
<BluesKaj> yes I will ,as soon as i can
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: want me to nmap you, dont tell to the cops ok :p
<lotuspsychje> oh your on vpn nevermind
<BluesKaj> you can try, but i'm on a vpn
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lordievader> Port scanning ain't illegal.
<BluesKaj> port 21 for telnet?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: to be a burgler and look inside someones house isnt illegal neither :p
<lotuspsychje> port 22 normaly
<lotuspsychje> and port 80 might also we open on the sat
<lordievader> 22 is ssh...
<lordievader> Telnet != ssh.
<lordievader> Ah, 23: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telnet
<lotuspsychje> yeah 23
<lotuspsychje> 21 is ftp
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, got a command I could use ?
<BluesKaj> for nmap
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: nmap -PN -sV yourip
<lordievader> nmap -p 23 -Pn ip
<lotuspsychje> sV is handy for services active
<lordievader> You're only interested in the state of port 23. Which shouldn't be forwarded...
<BluesKaj> All 1000 scanned ports on 192.168.X.XX are closed
<lotuspsychje> nice and secure ubuntu :p
<lotuspsychje> or good router
<lordievader> On 192.168? Try your public ip.
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah public ip might show usefull stuff
<lotuspsychje> check whatsmyip
<lordievader> dig +short myip.opendns.com @resolver1.opendns.com
<BluesKaj> I know what my IP is
<BluesKaj> 23/tcp closed telnet on the pvr
<BluesKaj> I have my ISPs dns server IPs setup in the router as well
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Besides, Ubuntu's firewall config is very lacking by default. Accept all...
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: true, but what will someone do with the open ports
<BluesKaj> this the IP looup site that I use , it's quite accurate. mostly http://www.ip-tracker.org/
<BluesKaj> lookup
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: It means that access to ports is completely unregulated.
<lotuspsychje> sure
<lordievader> That I have smb running doesn't mean that I want the full world to access it.
<lotuspsychje> true
<lordievader> What Ubuntu should have done by default is use the drop policy on the input table. And allow related and established connections in the input table.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: maybe a sugestion for the ubuntu brainstorm
<lordievader> Meh, they probably have reasons for the way they do things.
<lotuspsychje> probably
<MonkeyDust> twitter: I just sneezed... FB status: running noses
<MonkeyDust> nose*
<MonkeyDust> thought you wanted to know
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> well, my pvr seems locked down pretty tightly
<daftykins> i seem to identify a hell of a lot of dead hard disks over in #ubuntu 0o
<daftykins> i'll start getting a reputation before too long...
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: :p
<OerHeks> You mean booting in blackscreen or grub after update?
<lordievader> The man, or woman, who kills harddisks through IRC!
<daftykins> OerHeks: who was that at?
<OerHeks> for you, i have a client in #ubuntu-nl, struggeling with this issue over and over again
<daftykins> oh this was genuine disk failure - check out last nights http://paste.ubuntu.com/10819664/
<daftykins> but certainly plenty of symptoms can result from a disk in this kind of condition
<lordievader> daftykins: 0 reallocated sectors...
<daftykins> keep reading, lordievader
<daftykins> :>
<lordievader> Jup, never mind.
<daftykins> the key lines are 52, 66 and 67
<daftykins> plus all the errors recorded thereafter
<lotuspsychje> hitachi's arent the best hd's
<daftykins> i thought that, though a friend found an article the other day that claims they have the lowest fault tolerance of desktop consumer HDDs 9i
<daftykins> * 0o
<lordievader> High failure rates on Hitachi's.
<lotuspsychje> ill swear by seagates
<lotuspsychje> and samsung ssd's :p
<daftykins> seagates have too low warranty a lot of the time
<daftykins> i always buy WD
<lotuspsychje> i had few wd's fail on me also
<daftykins> ooh that reminds me
<daftykins> yeah i think they all die plenty :>
<lotuspsychje> i never had a seagate fail
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/00bzkubbvat9hgx/IMG_20150413_190602.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
 * lordievader doesn't like Seagates either.
<lordievader> WD :D
<daftykins> finished off an 8 x 2TB RAID6 -> 8 x 4TB RAID6 move last night
<daftykins> so. many. screws.
<daftykins> spent a good time removing the 5 years of dust from the system too :D
<lotuspsychje> lol@pic
<daftykins> 48TB ^_^
<daftykins> all the 2TB disks are out of warranty and needed ditching y'see
<daftykins> /dev/sdb1        22T  9.0T   13T  41% /media/array2
<daftykins> huzzah
<lordievader> No lvm raid?
<daftykins> it's on a 3ware HBA
<daftykins> even if i did know how to use any LVM magic it'd have no use for it there
<lordievader> LVM raid is quite flexible as you can specify what kind of raid you want per logical volume. But I suppose a hardware raid is faster.
<daftykins> i have thought about playing with some other setups like ZFS, but between using the 3ware cards simple management to fix issues and the idea of staring at logs for hours on end - i chose the former :D
<daftykins> i spot when the disks fail early as well, as it does a nice scheduled weekly verification across the arrays
<lotuspsychje> i just watched blackhat..nice movie :p
<BluesKaj> yeah, i tried a LVM partition management type install from scratch so I could run qemu-kvm with plenty of space for guest OS , but it mucked  up my partitions after I removeed qemu-kvm and I needed rescue support to fix my partitions
<daftykins> 2015 film?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yes
<daftykins> hmm sounds very topical according to IMDB :D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: well i liked it, and finally a hacking movie with some real linux commands to see
<daftykins> woohoo \o/
<daftykins> i wonder if the upcoming third Tron film will use some factual ones too
<daftykins> they at least used 'whoami' in Tron: Legacy ;)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> seem to remember nmap cropping up somewhere too - maybe that was the Matrix
<lotuspsychje> knock knock
<lotuspsychje> wake up neo.....
<EriC^^> neo's drunk come back later
<lotuspsychje> loool
<EriC^^> sudo poweroff
<lotuspsychje> he saw too many wite wabbits
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/04/beta-plasma-5-3-features
<lotuspsychje> this is a weird support day oO
<lotuspsychje> took too many of those neo pills i think
<daftykins> i find my faith in the common man drops constantly, being in #ubuntu
<lordievader> Hehe... Keep your chin up.
<lotuspsychje> we poor volunteers :p
<lotuspsychje> ki7mt: welcome :p
<ki7mt> Hola
<lotuspsychje> http://ubuntuonair.com/
<lotuspsychje> seen on https://twitter.com/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you skared him :p
<OerHeks> Ido, do i?
<OerHeks> Maybe that is why my chihuahua's bark at me.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> do we figure that these other distros are too silly to modify their IRC client packages to not join #ubuntu as default 0o
<lotuspsychje> that would be a great start
<daftykins> to be honest even Ubuntu should disable it ;)
<lotuspsychje> that would surely safe alot of work
<OerHeks> i think #ubuntu should support all forks :-D
<daftykins> seriously? :P
<EriC^^> OerHeks: mind your table manners please :P
<OerHeks> plus vivid 15.04 beta2
<lotuspsychje> i rather like straight ubuntu in here
<OerHeks> EriC^^,  i have never been banned, i am missing some experience.
<OerHeks> I am hungry, thinking what i should make for diner.
<lotuspsychje> !cookie
<ubot5> Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<lotuspsychje> cool bot works here too
<ki7mt> +1 .. I would not mind all the offcical ditro's, Lub, Xub, Kub, etc being in #ubuntu  but not Kali and all those.
<lordievader> People allways wonder why everything is together in #ubuntu+1.
<EriC^^> i just made something gross, hamburger bread with ketchup mustard and cheese, microwaved, OerHeks i wouldn't recommend
<daftykins> ki7mt: those are already fine to be discussed in there
<EriC^^> i was too lazy to order pizza
<daftykins> it's all the downstream distros like Mint, this new Backbox thing and Elementary OS - all that rubbish :)
<ki7mt> And Mint especially, that one really gets on my nerves, even though I test pkgs on it.
<lotuspsychje> true
<daftykins> back in a tick
<OerHeks> Sad thing is, thoose forks are too lazy to give support. For pentesting distros i can imagine, who wants to help wannabee-hackers?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: sounds real healthy :p
 * lotuspsychje lowers his hand
<lotuspsychje> i never got that, pentesting tools can be just downloaded as packages..whats the big deal
<lotuspsychje> !info john
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: It is usefull to have them all together, then you can just start a vm and done.
<ubot5> john (source: john): active password cracking tool. In component main, is optional. Version 1.8.0-2 (utopic), package size 213 kB, installed size 956 kB
<ki7mt> OerHeks, Most of them cant provide support, as the base engine is Ubuntu, and they don't  re-spin the packaging, so they've no real knowledge of what's really going on.
<ki7mt> At least with Ubuntu, it's a fairly tight integration to Debian.
<ki7mt> 90+% of the Mint users say Mint is not Ubuntu .. I disagree, it's Ubuntu with a variant DE + More Bugs ;)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<ki7mt> man, python-pil v2.6.1 is giving me major issues on 14.10 and Jessie .. I hope they backport 2.5.3 as 2.6.1 is FUBAR
<ki7mt> How many of you all are Ubuntu Members ? I've been working on that for a while, but I dont seem to be making much progress in getting the membership.
<OerHeks> ki7mt, i am, after 5 years of hangin in #ubuntu and giving support.
<OerHeks> ki7mt, but there is no minimum time to it, you need to prove that you contribute, and find persons who want to write a testimonial for you
<OerHeks> * and have no history of beiing banned for childish reasons and such
<ki7mt> Yeah, Iv'e been here off and on for at least 5yrs, been using UB since the 5.04 or there abouts.
<OerHeks> ki7mt, go for it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<ki7mt> I've never been banned, ever. I've had situations where we had to "Agree to Disagree", but nothing nasty ever.
<ki7mt> OerHeks, Yeah., I've done some Doc work, packaging, Q&A, IRC, QA ISO and app testing, just not in mass quanity.
<OerHeks> ki7mt, you might have done more for ubuntu than i did sofar, who can tell, who can judge?
<ki7mt> Im also upstram on several packages, so time is also an issue.
<ki7mt> .. upstream
<ki7mt> I guess I could throw my name in the hat, and see what the feedback is .. I just dont do rejection very well :-)
<OerHeks> Take your time to write something about yourself, and let me know please.
<ki7mt> I think I have my wiki up .. have to go find it, I don't spend allot of time on it, maybe I should.
<ki7mt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KI7MT
<OerHeks> yeah, just saw your Karma :-D
<ki7mt> It's not very high, I've not done allot fo packaging work lately.
<ki7mt> Karma on Launchpad that is.
<OerHeks> This is the past, what do you expect from beiing a member?
<OerHeks> from-of*
<lordievader> I get the feeling you'll do fine, ki7mt.
<OerHeks> me too, lordievader
<ki7mt> That's a good question .. I suppose, from a personal standpoint it's a sense of achievement, from a Ubuntu community stanpoint, give back to the community, help drive and shape the future of various aspects things like that.
<OerHeks> True.
<ki7mt> I dont think we get Karma for IRC though do we ?
<ki7mt> at least, not on Launchpad
<OerHeks> No, i don't think so.
<OerHeks> ..maybe !cookie | ki7mt  counts
<lordievader> Hehe
<ki7mt> Yeah, I would think so, those are cool
<lordievader> !cookie | ki7mt
<ubot5> ki7mt: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<OerHeks>  /msg ubottu i love you # +10
<ki7mt> I like cookies :-)
<lordievader> ki7mt: You'll love the Darkside, we got cookies :D
<ki7mt> Indeed :-)
<OerHeks> ki7mt, that 98 should really try mint :-D
<ki7mt> Yeah, I use Mint, mostly for testing, but I dont like Green :-)
<OerHeks> I like green, but mint is slower than ubuntu
<OerHeks> microseconds, but slower.
<lordievader> Time to learn some awk.
<ki7mt> Yeah, I noticed that too on 17.1, like opening the FM and things, first time around it like stalls then goes.
<lordievader> Awk is pretty sweet.
<ki7mt> awk, sed and grep, if you can master those three thing, CLI is stupid powerful
<lordievader> I'm quite okay with sed and grep. But all I could do in awk before was print out a column.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-15
<daftykins> EriC^^: granted i've just come home from the weekly pub quiz, thus some alcohol has been consumed, but what the hell is this josselin on about O_O
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> beats me :D
<daftykins> now i've gotta restart for Windows updates, but don't tell anyone else the game will be afoot...
<EriC^^> hehe
<EriC^^> ok
<daftykins> done \o/
<daftykins> SSDs are great
<EriC^^> cool
<uncleRoy> Evening ... anyone here?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/No-Reboot-Patching-Comes-to-Ubuntu-15-10-via-Linux-Kernel-4-0-Says-Mark-Shuttleworth-478400.shtml
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: yes morning here
<lotuspsychje> 7h
<ablest1980> 1am
<ablest1980> here
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: how long do you support in #ubuntu?
<ablest1980> today?
<lotuspsychje> all time :p
<ablest1980> since 14.04lts
<lotuspsychje> cool, you running trusty yourself?
<ablest1980> yes
<lotuspsychje> me too, i like LTS
<ablest1980> me too
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: im gonna start an ubuntu computer shop in my country soon
<ablest1980> uk?
<lotuspsychje> with only samsung 850 pro ssd's inside and trusty
<lotuspsychje> belgium
<ablest1980> cool
<lotuspsychje> ill try to sell laptops, desktops, tablets and ubuntu phone
<lotuspsychje> i think the mass public is ready for this
<ablest1980> yes
<ablest1980> wish you luck
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: thank you
<ablest1980> np SD
<ablest1980> XD
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: wich machine do you run trusty on
<ablest1980> hp pavilion
<ablest1980> notebook
<ablest1980> g6
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: ah nice, do you know if HP sells barebone laptops?
<lotuspsychje> i hear hp is really linux friendly
<ki7mt> They are for sure
<ablest1980> for me yes
<ki7mt> There printers are really good with Linux.
<ki7mt> Their ..
<lotuspsychje> im looking for a barebone laptop company who can send laptops without Os and Hd's
<lotuspsychje> ki7mt: yeah thats my plan also, only hp printer with that hplip tools installed
<ki7mt> All of them would, given enough $$ on the table.
<lotuspsychje> did you see those new HP pc monitors, their fantastic
<ablest1980> lotuspsychje https://system76.com/
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: yeah i know them, pretty nice but rather expensive
<ki7mt> From a business standpoint, I'd stay away from high turnover hardware, the cost really comes in with locking in a configuration HW wsie, and forcing them to stick to it for say 3-5yrs.
<lotuspsychje> ki7mt: what you mean by high turnover
<ki7mt> If your rolling with Ubuntu, 3yrs production, 3yrs maint, 4yr needs to be dev for next release .. adn that means HW continuity for them both.
<ki7mt> Chipset changes can cause you nightmares, component turnover ..
<lotuspsychje> yeah i dont want broadcom and atheros chipset for sure in my systems to sell
<ki7mt> especially with a small operation, where your Marketing, Engineering, Manufacturing and Sales :-)
<lotuspsychje> ki7mt: wich company would you choose in my case
<lotuspsychje> its gonna be a small stire + service
<lotuspsychje> store
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna sell 10 brands of different systems to clients neither
<ki7mt> Me personally, I like HP for Servers, and well, may as well go all in with HP. Dell is pretty descent too though, Linux support wise, BUT I hate their NIC harware.
<lotuspsychje> dell is really fast on ubuntu i noticed
<lotuspsychje> what kind of NIC you dont like on dell?
<lotuspsychje> i think ill contact HP soon :p
<ablest1980> :)
<ki7mt> Your gonna want a small business package, for like an ofice with say 10 to 20 people or something, Servers, Network, Desktops and Laptops .. small packages, not million dollar deals, but more of a turn key setup for a small new company.
<lotuspsychje> its gonna be smaller
<lotuspsychje> webshop+store at home+service
<ki7mt> Dell was BCM, Im an Intel NIC fan all the way.
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> intel wifi is pretty decent for sure
<ablest1980> my hp is amd
<ki7mt> Yeah, I mean, if the local coffis shop want new boxes, Laptop and Desktops or something,. it's best if you can keep all the same vendors.
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<ki7mt> Makes you life easy, OEM support contracts easy warranty replacements easy .. all == EASY for you to manage.
<ablest1980> i see dell alot
<ki7mt> Yeah, there cheap, and they have good marketing too.
<ki7mt> HP not the the cheapest, but cheapest isn't always the "bestest" :-)
<lotuspsychje> true
<ki7mt> You gonna want warranty support and service support .. thats where HO is really good.
<ki7mt> HP no HO
<lotuspsychje> im also gonna do transforming for customers: bring your w8 machine and ill put samsung ssd 850 pro+trusty inside
<ki7mt> Carful with that though, SSD == USB3 ..
<ki7mt> Older boxes may only have USB2
<lotuspsychje> its gonna be system boost for sure
<ki7mt> The again, you could always sell them a MB upgrade package :-)
<ki7mt> MB, RAM and SSD 800 bucks, super fast PC
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> well for 120 euro, you got already a nice ssd from samsung
<ki7mt> they get to reuse their Box and PSU :-)
<lotuspsychje> yes!
<lotuspsychje> i got me an acer netbook + ubuntu 14.04.2 64bit + samsung evo 840
<lotuspsychje> goes rocketfast
<lotuspsychje> 5sec boot 3 sec halt
<ki7mt> That's the Buiz I'd go after, Upgrade Buiz .. + Linux
<ki7mt> then you cna Gaurentt 10x faster boots or whtever Marketing Blurb ya want to use.
<ki7mt> Gaurentee ..
<lotuspsychje> check this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRYGuM4ckN0
<ki7mt> that drive here is about 80 bucks.
<lotuspsychje> yeah im gonna use that for marketing trick for sure
<lotuspsychje> resource your computer is my slogan
<lotuspsychje> once they got LTS installed, they use their machines for years
<lotuspsychje> no comming back to the pc store every month with virusses :p
<ki7mt> yeah, so 100 buxk for MB, 100 bucks for SSD, and noew i5 100 bucks, Gross Margin ( Selling Price - Cost ) / Selling Price, your target needs to be 45-50% Gross Margin.
<lotuspsychje> i can save money with the barebones, no pay for the Os and hd
<ki7mt> So from there you can set you Sellign price for the Package.
<ki7mt> Yeah, of course, but you gotta make money, and at some point, gotta pay yourself :-)
<lotuspsychje> yeah sure, im gonna try to setup neat prices <+ benefit
<ki7mt> Bare bones Laptops are not easy to get hold of, for the very reason your talking about.
<lotuspsychje> BTO laptops.nl does it, but not very cheap neither
<lotuspsychje> i hope i can make a deal with HP
<ki7mt> Nope, they dont want them cheap ./. You may be better of, buy a minimal equipted box, stipping it out, upgrade it, then sell off the other stuff on Ebay or whtever.
<lotuspsychje> or placing the existing hd into a case for storage for the customer
<ki7mt> Yeah, your gonna need an edge somwhere as there's no way you can compete with their Marketing, Sales & Service.
<lotuspsychje> but as you said, i dont wanna be the cheapest
<lotuspsychje> i want stable + fast
<ki7mt> I really loo hard at low-end i5 Laptops, and make sure I could upgrade them to what I wanted.
<ki7mt> .. look hard ..
<lotuspsychje> ok
<ki7mt> if it will run an I5, it will run an i3 and i7 more than liekly, but it's the SSD cost, RAM upgrades and the like you need to look at.
<ki7mt> Th thing is, with an SSD, you dont need an i7
<lotuspsychje> yeah with 4 or 8gig ram + ssd 850 pro, it will do magic on the machine
<lotuspsychje> true
<lotuspsychje> too pricy for the end customer also
<lotuspsychje> or maybe a gaming monster once in a while
<ki7mt> Not unless your a developer of something where you max out CPU cycles allot.
<lotuspsychje> steam gaming desktop
<ki7mt> Thats more GPU than CPU
<lotuspsychje> true
<ki7mt> Then ya sell them your Deaktop Gamming Version for mo $$$
<ki7mt> Desktop ..
<lotuspsychje> the gaming part will be harder
<lotuspsychje> as i have to convice them only use steam
<ki7mt> Hook them with the work setup, real them in with Gamming and Dev Workstations.
<lotuspsychje> i think: lowcost netbook, multimedia laptop,high end laptop
<ki7mt> Real gamers know what they need, but that's not what sells, it's "what they want" is what sells, hard core gamers always over buy what they really need.
<lotuspsychje> then mulitmedia dekstop, and high end gaming desktop
<lotuspsychje> system76 makes difference with mulitmedia/business
<ki7mt> they need 32GB ram, 2x SSD's i7's or Multi-CPU AMD's Nvidia Quadro's on and on an on
<lotuspsychje> i wont do that
<lotuspsychje> wanna keep it simple
<ki7mt> lol that's smart
<lotuspsychje> so sticking to i5 is good idea
<ki7mt> I built allot of custom Water-Cooled boxes for Gamers, they stupid money on that crap. All so they can overclock it, and buy a new one next year when it frys
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the hint
<ki7mt> I thin i5 or really, i3 for a Laprop, then you get much better Batt Life, but i5 is a brand name seller for sure.
<lotuspsychje> you know of those intel NUC's perform good on ubuntu?
<ki7mt> it all depends. I mean really, most people use their laptop for surfing and social media, with Music and a few vid's thrown in for good measure, that dont take allot of CPU power.
<lotuspsychje> might get a 'clean' feeling as house desktop with neat hp screen :p
<lotuspsychje> small NUC on their table :p
<ki7mt> I built several NUC's and alot of Mini-ITX boxed .. ~500 bucks out the door.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ki7mt> I use i3 3.8Ghz 2 core ( not quad ) for the Mini-ITX boxes.
<lotuspsychje> maybe ill use the cheapest NUC as lowend desktop
<ki7mt> there really fast, and with amSATA or SSD, stupid fast.
<lotuspsychje> yeah msata samsung 850 pro
<lotuspsychje> will rocknroll
<ki7mt> Checkinto the Mini-ITX i5 boards, 200 bucks, CPU and MB, add SSD, your at 300 bucks, Ram, 100 bucks, case 50 bucks, Ubuntu OS. Done.
<ki7mt> al for 450 bucks. and lightening fast.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ki7mt> and it will run ion your car with a 7" LCD display
<ki7mt> in your car .. if ya got a AC plug that is
<lotuspsychje> the store will make a new ubuntu life
<lotuspsychje> with the BQ and meizu phone thats on the market
<lotuspsychje> will be nice
<ki7mt> Im gonna sell the Mini-ITX boxes to Ham radio guys, they love them
<lotuspsychje> ill transform nexus7 as ubuntu touch tablets too
<lotuspsychje> cool idea
<ki7mt> i thought about that, but it's fiddly for me, Im better with normal boxes.
<lotuspsychje> ki7mt: its really not hard to do, check the #ubuntu-touch topic to install
<lotuspsychje> i bought me a nexus7 just for ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> and runs flawless
<ki7mt> Yeah, I know, allot of folks think ya gonna be a rocket scientist .. it's really not that hard.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ki7mt> Just look at the Raspberry Pi's those things are like gold .. and only 35 Bucks here.
<lotuspsychje> nice n cheap
<ki7mt> shoot, a 16GB mSD card costs 2/3 rds the price of the Pi .. LOL
<lotuspsychje> lol lol
<ki7mt> I bought a card for mine, was like 18 dollars, Pi was 35.
<ki7mt> and it's a Quad Core 1Hgz ARM
<ki7mt> 1Ghz ARMv7
<lotuspsychje> with snappy core, its gonna be even more intersting in the future
<lotuspsychje> many brands will use ubuntu
<ki7mt> It's impressive to say the least, Im runnign Lubuntu ( Debian Jessie + LXDE ) and it works great.
<lotuspsychje> did you hear about ninja spere?
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ki7mt> Yeah, I just burned the Ubuntu Core image yesterday, I've not isntalled it yet, gonna check it out.
<ki7mt> No, what' Ninja Sphere?
<lotuspsychje> holdon
<lotuspsychje> https://ninjablocks.com/
<lotuspsychje> its an inernet of things device running on snappy :p
<ki7mt> That's pretty cool. Our Frig has a computer on the front of it, WiFI an All, the other half googl's cooking directions all the time, good ole Gordon Ramsey :-)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ill nmap your frig and hack me an egg :p
<ki7mt> dont tell I said this, but she can't cook at all .. but .. she tries, is all I ask :-)
<lotuspsychje> if its good between the sheets, no worries :p:p
<ki7mt> So I was OK with getting the more expensive Frig that told her how to cooks stuff .. LMAO
<lotuspsychje> boil an egg once in a while yourself then
<ki7mt> Shhet is one thing, Chow is another .. burn beans on toast suxs .. lol
<lotuspsychje> haha
<ki7mt> Actually, I do most of the cooking, one, she can't cook, and two, her mother never tough here how to clean, it's like a bimb goes off in the kitchen when she's done, I can't stand it.
<ablest1980> bbl bye :D
<ki7mt> like a bomb ...
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: laterz
<ki7mt> CUL
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<ki7mt> Ok, I need a brew and to debug some code, so CUL after while.
<lotuspsychje> ok cheers and tnx for the tips
<lotuspsychje> somsip: welcome :p
<somsip> ayup. I'm not as active as I have been as I just lurk and help while I work, but I'm usually around
<lotuspsychje> no sweat mate, its not about whos' most active, just the quality of supporters :p
<lotuspsychje> we always doing support, but never have a real change to talk to each other
<lotuspsychje> this might give some changes
<somsip> and I admit I vary depending on caffeine levels, but I try :)
<somsip> ok - i'm here anyway
<lotuspsychje> we also pretty coffee slaves/idlers ourselfs :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/First-Ubuntu-Touch-Devel-Version-Based-on-Vivid-Is-Out-478430.shtml
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ki7mt> Hello All, as some may know, I'm working toward Ubuntu membership.  ; I' have updated my Wiki page ( need typo / spelling checks still ) but if you have some spare time, could you take a look. If your familiar with my community activities,  feel free to leave a comment. Feedback for improvement would be very much appreciated. Linky: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KI7MT
<OerHeks> :-)
<ki7mt> Thanks OerHeks .. and yes, that question did throw me off guard a bit :-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ablest1980> gm
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: hello mate
<ablest1980> hello
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/04/cirrus7-nimbini-ubuntu-pc-announced
<ablest1980> website loading
<ablest1980> im updating
<lotuspsychje> oh okay :p
<ablest1980> looks good
<lotuspsychje> yeah alot of ubuntu devices rise up these days
<lotuspsychje> thats promising
<ablest1980> :)
<ablest1980> we got different a/c plugs in us
<ablest1980> ---(}=
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Ubuntu-15-04-Vivid-Vervet-Is-Now-in-Final-Freeze-Arrives-on-April-23-478634.shtml
<lotuspsychje> vivid almost there
<ablest1980> 15.04 lts is comming?
<ablest1980> next week?
<lotuspsychje> not lts
<lotuspsychje> !15.04
<ubot5> Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) will be the 22nd release of Ubuntu due for release in April 2015. Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1. For more info see the announcement at  http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1425
<ablest1980> beta?
<lotuspsychje> final
<lotuspsychje> and next week official release yes
<ablest1980> ok
<ablest1980> softpedia link stil loading
<ablest1980> software updater install java 8
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ablest1980> join #ubuntu-offtopic lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> ablest1980: why?
<ablest1980> people talking there
<ablest1980> lotuspsychje bbl
<ki7mt> Evening / Morning / Afternoon All :-)
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<OerHeks> Hey BluesKaj :-D
<OerHeks> How is life?
<BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks, just fine here thanks , and you?
<OerHeks> Just finished hanging laundry in the sun, walking the dogs, making diner for mom in the hospital, and life is looking great, weekend is comming.
<OerHeks> Lack of funding for an ubuntu-phone is just a detail.
<BluesKaj> funny I have no desire to buy  an iubuntu phone , even if it was available
<OerHeks> Just for fun.
<OerHeks> I love to read people working on it in #ubuntu-touch
 * popey tickles OerHeks 
<OerHeks> hi popey :-D
<OerHeks> and yes, i tried to fold a origami thing, not that handy with paper i am afraid
<daftykins> oh dear Tux, not the 'when is it out?' talk again :(
<BluesKaj> yeah , it's already starting...are we there yet ? :)
<daftykins> ;)
<OerHeks> I answer that question with '27th' :-)
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, it's 23rd
<OerHeks> I know, now.
<daftykins> it might get delayed like whichever last time ;)
<OerHeks> oke ATA = 23th around sometime before midnight
<OerHeks> because that would be q nr 2
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-18
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/System76-Unveils-Powerful-Desktop-Computer-Powered-by-Ubuntu-14-10-478631.shtml
<hopefullythisnic> hey psycho?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> wb
<hopefullythisnic> ty, i havent used irc in FOREVER so i couldnt remember the damn command to connect to another channel
<lotuspsychje> hopefullythisnic: did you see this one : http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/System76-Unveils-Powerful-Desktop-Computer-Powered-by-Ubuntu-14-10-478631.shtml
<lotuspsychje> i like xchat for irc
<hopefullythisnic> yea i have hexchat on my windows os lol
<lotuspsychje> :p
<hopefullythisnic> what kind of machine are you running?
<lotuspsychje> im currently on an acer netbook ubuntu 14.04.2 64bit with samsung evo 840
<lotuspsychje> (sec boot/3sec halt
<hopefullythisnic> cool
<lotuspsychje> but im gonna open an ubuntu computer shop in my country soon
<hopefullythisnic> whereabouts are you located?
<lotuspsychje> belgium
<hopefullythisnic> oh, interesting
<lotuspsychje> not many shops do ubuntu here
<hopefullythisnic> i bet you could work out some sort of deal with sys76
<lotuspsychje> yes but better lol
<hopefullythisnic> yea
<lotuspsychje> laptops/desktops/tablets/phones all with ubuntu
<hopefullythisnic> oh nice
<hopefullythisnic> is the full phone os out yet?
<lotuspsychje> i got myself nexus7 with touch works smooth
<lotuspsychje> yes
<hopefullythisnic> oh
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu touch
<hopefullythisnic> nice
<lotuspsychje> and 2 phone brands are out
<hopefullythisnic> orly?
<lotuspsychje> BQ and meizu will follow soon
<hopefullythisnic> im in the market for a new phone
<hopefullythisnic> should i wait?
<lotuspsychje> you can buy a Bq right now
<hopefullythisnic> Gonna look that up, se
<hopefullythisnic> '*sec
<lotuspsychje> http://store.bq.com/es/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5
<lotuspsychje> 169 euro
<hopefullythisnic> im in the us tho
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> then you cant order
<hopefullythisnic> yea
<lotuspsychje> youll have to wait the meizu then
<hopefullythisnic> cant i put it on android hardware myself?
<lotuspsychje> only nexus devices yes
<hopefullythisnic> damn
<lotuspsychje> i hear nexus 4 and 5 run pretty smooth
<lotuspsychje> and one guy have a project on oneplusone phone
<hopefullythisnic> ohh
<hopefullythisnic> nice
<hopefullythisnic> i was looking at that anyway
<lotuspsychje> he recently got wifi working on it
<hopefullythisnic> oh, he must be a ways off then lol
<lotuspsychje> you can idle in #ubuntu-touch for that
<hopefullythisnic> alrighty
<lotuspsychje> the guy is mariogrip, if you got questions
<hopefullythisnic> brb, just gonna go find a spare hdd and reinstall windows while im talking to you
<lotuspsychje> kk
<hopefullythisnic> its okay if i use a usb hdd right?
<hopefullythisnic> i dont feel like takin it apart again lol
<lotuspsychje> to dualboot with ubuntu?
<hopefullythisnic> actually
<hopefullythisnic> that
<hopefullythisnic> that's dumb
<hopefullythisnic> ill just grab a real hdd\
<hopefullythisnic> sec
<lotuspsychje> !dualboot | hopefullythisnic
<ubot5> hopefullythisnic: Dual boot instructions: x86/AMD64: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DualBoot/Windows - Macs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot
<hopefullythisnic> disassembling now, sorry for bein antisocial lol
<lotuspsychje> dont worry im afk and idle alot too
<hopefullythisnic> k whew
<hopefullythisnic> thats done
<hopefullythisnic> its hot as hell rn
<hopefullythisnic> somehow i manged to slice my fingers open on a stick of ram :(
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> i did that once building a PC for my brother
<daftykins> "erm, sorry about the blood covered RAM..."
<daftykins> hilariously the blood went in finger print patterns too
<daftykins> definitely not one of my crowning moments in hardware ;)
<hopefullythisnic> lol
<hopefullythisnic> okay why wont this boot into the windows installation disk anymore
<hopefullythisnic> ugh
<lotuspsychje> set cdrom as first boot
<lotuspsychje> or maybe uefi settings in bios
<daftykins> boot priority is a waste of time really, one-time boot menus make more sense
<daftykins> (if available)
<hopefullythisnic> yea but i dont see it in uefi bios rn
<daftykins> optical or flash drive?
<hopefullythisnic> optical
<daftykins> hmm, reduce it back to the minimal configuration without any HDDs or SSDs plugged in
<daftykins> and see if it auto goes to the optical to boot
<daftykins> and ensure the optical (if SATA presumably) is connected to motherboard chipset based SATA and not a third party controller chip such as lots often have to provide more ports
<ki7mt> Bob, try: sudo lsblk -o NAME,FSTYPE,SIZE,MOUNTPOINT,LABEL  .. that should list them all.
<ki7mt> Whoops, sorry wrong channel
<daftykins> :D
<ki7mt> Post in the channel pse Bob, try: sudo lsblk -o NAME,FSTYPE,SIZE,MOUNTPOINT,LABEL  .. that should list them all
<ki7mt> It did it again !!! I think my IRC client is FUBAR :-)
<ki7mt> re-launch time me thinks
<lordievader> Good morning.
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> how are you, lordievader ?
<lordievader> Hey daftykins, doing good here. How are you?
<daftykins> also good here thanks :)
<daftykins> a fine morning it is
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<BluesKaj> 'Morning lotuspsychje
<OerHeks> \o/
<OerHeks> My dogs think it is too hot outside
<BluesKaj> hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> maybe your dogs are right :)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello mate
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hi
<BluesKaj> think I'm going to do a clean install of Kubuntu 15.04 after the official release , my version is mucked up with diiferent colours as default depending on which Qt version they're using
<OerHeks> 22 april openstach seminar, 23 april install 15.04, 24 april find a 4th leg for my large computertable.
<BluesKaj> plasma5 intehration doen't seem to work on my desktop install, the laptop version is fine
<OerHeks> openstack*
<OerHeks> oh, i forget, 20 april payday, so i have 1 day off this week
<BluesKaj> plsama 5 integration of plasma 4 depenent apps l;ike dolphin
<lordievader> Have you guys played with Dracut?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: whats dracut?
<lordievader> Counterpart of initramfs-tools.
<lotuspsychje> didnt test myself
<BluesKaj> I'm tempted to reinstall the latest daily
<lordievader> It fails to boot my luks + lvm :(
<lordievader> Or it is systemd who fails, not really sure.
<BluesKaj> sddm ?
<lordievader> BluesKaj: Was that to me?
<BluesKaj> lordievader, yes
<lordievader> This is at the mounting of the root fs stage. It is a really bare system. Just wanted to see if it boots.
<BluesKaj> ok, so you're chrooting
<lordievader> No.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: keep us up to date on the openstack if it was interesting ok :p
<lordievader> Dracut or systemd is trying to mount the luks partition but fails or something, I don't know what it is doing. Anyhow was wondering if someone had experience with a dracut + luks + lvm + systemd setup.
<OerHeks> Sure, ticketsale is closed now
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: wow thats fast
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: how much did you pay?
<OerHeks> Nothing. i don't know if there is any fee.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<OerHeks> I just want a pic with Mark :-D
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: the snappy part will be interesting for sure
<BluesKaj> oh , luks and lvm, stuff I don't fool around with ...lvm was ok , but I didn't need it
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: maybe that bootchart package can help you see whats going wrong?
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, why , he's a traitor
<lotuspsychje> !info bootchart | lordievader
<OerHeks> no, Dictator :-D
<ubot5> lordievader: bootchart (source: bootchart): boot sequence auditing. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.90.2-8ubuntu2 (utopic), package size 10 kB, installed size 96 kB
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: It is a Gentoo system :P
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: And I do not have a filesystem ;) Well an initramfs I suppose, but no real filesystem.
<lotuspsychje> oh right
<lordievader> From what I gather bootchart is included in Dracut.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lordievader> That is if you enable the USE flag.
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: set it to favs if you want
<lotuspsychje> and if you dont want also :p
 * cfhowlett salutes the room with a tip of his tasty beverage
<lordievader> Hey cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> lordievader, greetings
 * BluesKaj goes to the kitchen for another coffee
<lotuspsychje> check this one: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/System76-Unveils-Powerful-Desktop-Computer-Powered-by-Ubuntu-14-10-478631.shtml
<lotuspsychje> 16gig ram lol
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, if I were in the state and needed a desktop:  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/04/cirrus7-nimbini-ubuntu-pc-announced
<lotuspsychje> yeah saw that one
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice
<cfhowlett> definitely has the cool look factor
<BluesKaj> it can handle 16G RAM,  a la carte options ...749 is pretty expensive for a pc with a free OS , especially with those specs
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: but i would rather choose wich ssd to plugin myself
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well i guess system76, is the shop for those who cant install ubuntu themselfs on hardware
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, yeah, custom builds are the way to go if possible
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: those intel NUC seems nice too
<BluesKaj> one must remember windows machines are $100 more due to the OS
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: true
<lotuspsychje> so the ubuntu machine must get lower prices
<lotuspsychje> but they might wanna profit a little also
<lotuspsychje> this machine will run for years
<BluesKaj> it's cool looking etc, but a bit pricey for what you gety IMO
<lotuspsychje> true
<cfhowlett> Profit?  in F/Loss?!  HERETIC!
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * lotuspsychje hopes more barebone companys rise in the future, no Os, no Hd
<OerHeks> maas
<BluesKaj> nothing with profit , but this verges on the MAC philosophy , charge like hell and ppl will think their getting something special
<BluesKaj> wrong
<cfhowlett> BluesKaj, and yet ...
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: indeed, mac is way overrated
<BluesKaj> my daughter's Imac HDD died , it take 16 steps in the tuorial to replace it
<BluesKaj> so she bought a lenovo :)
<lotuspsychje> and the myth it has no virusses is long outdated..
<lotuspsychje> im playing with telegram on nexus7 tablet with ubuntu touch and it rocks!
<lotuspsychje> free chat over wifi
<lotuspsychje> and opensource
<lotuspsychje> installed the webogram unity icon for desktop also, and works fast n nice
<lotuspsychje> https://telegram.org/
<BluesKaj> looks like a browser that integrates social media
<lotuspsychje> no its just to chat with contacts
<lotuspsychje> add your cell number and add contacts
<BluesKaj> ok
<lotuspsychje> and can send files to each other
<lotuspsychje> its a whatsapp alternative, but more secure
<Daekdroom> And it has an open API
<BluesKaj> I'm a smartphone luddite ..still use an old flip phone
<lotuspsychje> Daekdroom: you also use it?
<Daekdroom> The android app is far superior to Whatsapp's. It's a shame people don't use Telegram as much, though.
<Daekdroom> lotuspsychje, I rarely get the chance, but yes.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i dont have smartphone yet either, but i like it on my nexus7 tablet and works with my cell nr
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I'm old and grumpy , and to me smartphones are mostly just gadgets that I'll never need
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well with ubuntu touch you might like it :p
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt buy an android myself
<lotuspsychje> playstore is like a malware nightmare
<BluesKaj> I don't even like Ubuntu, I'm a KDE guy :-)
<lotuspsychje> ah, there was a kde tablet project, cant remember its name :p
<BluesKaj> it doesn't matter,  my cell phone is turned off even when it's in my pocket  :)
<lotuspsychje> i also use a cellphone as a regular one
<lotuspsychje> leave it at home all the time :p
<lotuspsychje> oldskool behaviour :p
<OerHeks> Sometimes i feel like a microbiologist, determination to the real question in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: users dont look it 'our' way to investigate
<lotuspsychje> they only want a quick fix :p
<OerHeks> They sure have the brains to create issues.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> one physical issue, and one mental issue to supporters to decipher :p
<cfhowlett> "just tell me what button to click!"
<lotuspsychje> :p:p
<lotuspsychje> the dd zero button
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good mornign.
<lordievader> morning*
<lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello mate
<lordievader> How are you doing this sunday?
<lotuspsychje> fine, sunny what about you?
<lordievader> Doing okay, messing with thinclients while part of X/KDE is compiling.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lordievader> So what are you up to today?
<lotuspsychje> chillin on sundays :p
<lotuspsychje> and little irc support
<lotuspsychje> and reading ubuntu news
<lordievader> Nice, nice.
<lotuspsychje> i like the softpedia website
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://www.deviantart.com/browse/all/customization/screenshots/nix/?q=gentoo
<lotuspsychje> whats your desktop look like :p
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://i.imgur.com/47iXQaS.jpg
<lordievader> Pretty standard KDE desktop here.
<lotuspsychje> okay :p a workers desktop
<lotuspsychje> i like eyecandy on ubuntu
<lordievader> Blegh, unity :P
<lotuspsychje> lool
<lotuspsychje> i kinda got used to unity now
<lotuspsychje> the only thing i was angry about is my bottom dock on gnome...
<lotuspsychje> wished unity left the user the choice when to put sidebar
<MonkeyDust> it's because of the ubuntu mobile phone, that the dock is on the left
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: yeah on the phone its nicely
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: but i would love it at bottom on my desktop
<lotuspsychje> i loved it for years on gnome
<MonkeyDust> in time, the desktop and the phone will be one, so the say, with a dock to place the phone in
<MonkeyDust> so to say*
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: yeah like that first phone they wanted to crowdfund once
<lotuspsychje> desktop and mobile everywhere
<lotuspsychje> i always forget its name :p
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> Hey lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> fine thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here ;)
<BluesKaj> hey E
<BluesKaj> hey EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> just did a successful release-upgrade from 14.10 to 15.04 , went quite smoothly and so far so good, no crashes
<EriC^^> cool
<BluesKaj> on Kubuntu
<lordievader> \o/
<MonkeyDust> i'm upgrading 15.04 in vmware, as we speak
<BluesKaj> vmware, hmm , was 14.10 working ok MonkeyDust?
<MonkeyDust> never tried it, my host is 14.04, skipped 14.10, even in vmware
<BluesKaj> ok
<MonkeyDust> and i have windows xp, vista and 7 in virtualbox... don't need or use it, just fun to have it ;)
<BluesKaj> using 2 hdds here, one for stable and the other for dev OSs
<MonkeyDust> like: "why? because I can"
<BluesKaj> ran Wt7 as guest on qemu-kvm and it ran fine except for the virt bridge which worked fine the internet connection , but failed to see the other windows pcs on the LAN
<MonkeyDust> your setup is much more elaborate than mine, apparentally
<BluesKaj> then realized I didn't need a windows installl at all, the linux OSs see and share files just fine with the other windows pcs
<BluesKaj> migt even dump windows on the laptop
<BluesKaj> not elaborate, just 3 computers on the LAN
<MonkeyDust> i have one frankenstein-laptop, with external screen and keyboard... after i spilled coffee over it
<BluesKaj> I've seen a method to clean sticky beverages including coffee on laptop KBs, but it's rather labour intensive
<MonkeyDust> it's comforting that i'm not the only one...
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje...
<baizon> and also bye :(
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj all ok?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, yeah, seems so, how about you?
<lotuspsychje> great, nice weather here
<lotuspsychje> and xenial countdown week :p
<BluesKaj> same over here
<BluesKaj> reinstalled yesterday with beta 2 and there were 560 upgrades afterwards, but nothing broke, so far
<BluesKaj> at least the login works now
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> kubuntu beta2?
<BluesKaj> yes
<lotuspsychje> no ssdm issue nomore?
<BluesKaj> no, it's gone
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> already got 2 updates today, and unity notifies updates now
<lotuspsychje> pretty handy
<BluesKaj> installing to / is a breeze then just a few tweaks and addititons and we're back in business
<lotuspsychje> dont forget preload :p
<BluesKaj> preload?
<lotuspsychje> !info preload
<ubot5`> preload (source: preload): adaptive readahead daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.4-2 (wily), package size 34 kB, installed size 135 kB
<lotuspsychje> boosts things up
<lotuspsychje> no configging, just a reboot and works like a charm
<BluesKaj> my boot time is quite fast now, especially with the ssd and the fixes to the OS
<lotuspsychje> preload reads programs ahead for faster working
<lotuspsychje> pretty handy
<BluesKaj> how?
<BluesKaj> do you have to preconfigure the programs to preload?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no its automatic, just a reboot needed
<BluesKaj> ok , I'll try it , brb
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,, I couldn't really tell if preload made much difference or not. Usually setup my 5-6 fav apps in their activities and load them into the icons only taskbar and they're ready for use when needed.
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: okay :p
<BluesKaj> suppose it'll make diff once it monitors what i use most
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: normally should preload the moment you open a program
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<dylan> sup
<EriC^^> hey :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: saw the walk the yesterday
<lotuspsychje> crazy movie :p
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> i watched colonia yesterday
<lotuspsychje> any good?
<EriC^^> pretty nuts, based on a true story
<lotuspsychje> cool, lemme trailer that
<EriC^^> it's like about a coloni in chile where they used to torture people and had like a nunery church thing going on
<EriC^^> it's fucked up
<EriC^^> there's nothing to watch though, it had 7.1 imdb
<lotuspsychje> yep looking nice, and i think when based on true story..it makes it even more interseting
<EriC^^> yeah that's right
<lotuspsychje> just like the walk
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> in the true story of the walk, the guy never actually fell in a lake, but the things he did on the wire was all real
<lotuspsychje> but that recalls me somthing similar, some guys in the past building jump with chutes
<EriC^^> he spent like 45mins on it, taunted police, laid on his back and stuff and took bows, and went across it 8 times
<lotuspsychje> omg
<EriC^^> O.o
<EriC^^> his foot wasn't bleeding that day though btw
<lotuspsychje> one should think, with the slightest little wind at such height
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> waiting for batman vs superman now
<lotuspsychje> i for jungle book lol
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> 8.7 imdb!
<EriC^^> will watch that too
<lotuspsychje> you dont laugh now heh
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> hmm there was this true based story with women in prostitution also
<lotuspsychje> cant recall its name
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the whistleblower
<EriC^^> let me check the trailer
<EriC^^> looks powerful
<EriC^^> will watch it
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: how's the ubuntu store coming together?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: still dont have a dayjob to combine with...im near :p
<lotuspsychje> the moment i got a job, ill start the sidejob business
<lotuspsychje> build the website
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> did you find any good barebones yet?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think il go for the clevo brand
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lemme get you that link
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: https://www.laptopplus.nl/categorieen/laptops/alle-laptops/clevo/alle_prijzen/alle_statussen
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: its the only brand i find, very customable, no hd, no os
<lotuspsychje> and with both US/BE keyboards
<EriC^^> brb supper time
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i will also use the database on my website, with some features forced like only the 850 pro
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ans then ill let the machine send to my house, to install ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: after install/tweak ill send to customer with specific software/needs
<EriC^^> sounds good
<EriC^^> :D
<Bashing-om> !lamp
<ubot5`> LAMP is an acronym for Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP. However, the term is often used for setups using alternative but different software, such as Perl or Python instead of PHP, and Postgres instead of MySQL. For help with setting up LAMP on Ubuntu, see  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP - See also the Server CD installation process.
<Bashing-om> Blink`: What we are suggesting, see if the components of lamp are installed .. say like ' dpkg -l php5 ' ??
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> grzegorz: morning
<lotuspsychje> hey SonikkuAmerica good morning
<SonikkuAmerica> Well hello there
<lotuspsychje> SonikkuAmerica: add this to your favs mate, here's where to most active supporters hang
<lotuspsychje> davido: morning
<davido> hi
<lotuspsychje> SonikkuAmerica: the idea is, we do alot of support but never have the chance to talk, so here we are
<SonikkuAmerica> Haha, I'm quite aware, I've been here several times
<lotuspsychje> kk :p
<lotuspsychje> brb for new xenial kernel reboot holdon
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ uname -a
<lotuspsychje> Linux R00TBOOK 4.4.0-21-generic #37-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 18 18:33:37 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<davido> beat you there by a couple hours.
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> davido: did you see gnome-software has changed icon
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu software now
<davido> yeah, i noticed that.  did a double-take. I thought the old software center had been pulled back in again.
<lotuspsychje> still no official option to move launcher hmzzz
<davido> Yeah, you have to dconf dive.
<lotuspsychje> davido: or unity-tweak-tool
<lotuspsychje> latest update has the option
<davido> really? Where?
<lotuspsychje> !info unity-tweak-tool
<ubot5`> unity-tweak-tool (source: unity-tweak-tool): configuration tool for the Unity desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6ubuntu3 (wily), package size 325 kB, installed size 2353 kB
<lotuspsychje> davido: first tab/launcher
<lotuspsychje> position: left/bottom
<davido> got it. I thought you were referring to a change to system settings I hadn't noticed.
<lotuspsychje> ah no, you confused with unity-control-center?
<davido> For me the biggest usability improvement from moving it to the bottom is that on multi-monitor systems I no longer have to tread the fine line between bumping the left edge hard enough to reveal the launcher, but not so hard as to whisk the pointer over to the next monitor.
<lotuspsychje> sweet, terminal start is now ubuntu-software
<lotuspsychje> davido: i like a launcher where all my icons fit, not the swipe to others thing
<lotuspsychje> davido: check my boxes: http://lotuspsychje.deviantart.com/
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-default-wallpapers-revealed-ahead-of-the-april-21-launch-503187.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<TJ-> morning! didn't notice the channel :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: :p
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> pretty active day, silence before the xenial storm still...
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ .. My morning to ya .. goes well ?
<lotuspsychje> yeppers
<Bashing-om> Will be interesting when xenial os released . A big change in upstart to systemd .. We can expect a lot of config issues .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i hear its possible to run old init.d also
<Bashing-om> I do not know that i would want to do that .... why suffer the needless overhead ? The init sysyem is systemd, run under systemd is the way I look at it .
<lotuspsychje> yeah i also think so is best, i think they allow it for transition reasons perhaps
<Bashing-om> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers : The gotchas.
<lotuspsychje> wb
<EriC^^> thanks
<EriC^^> :)
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-unveils-the-features-of-ubuntu-16-04-lts-ahead-of-the-april-21-launch-503213.shtml
<lotuspsychje> ok soupertime, see you all @ xenial d-day
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Ya got a bit of time ? /dev/sdb6                                                         ext4                               (not mounted)                                                         b9c0528f-e81f-4b08-9b31-032f14f72ccd
<TJ-> sure; waiting for 16GB of data to be written to an SD-card
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Un expected paste ^ .. got duplicate UUIDs, how does one change a UUID ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/15954620/ .
<TJ-> for which file-system type?
<Bashing-om> ext4 .
<TJ-> "tune2fs -U random /dev/sdXY"
<TJ-> see "man tune2fs" and scroll down to the -U UUID
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Think he cloned the partition , in that case the UUID is also duplicated ??
<TJ-> Yes
<TJ-> most file-systems have tools that allow altering the UUID
<Bashing-om> K, that do explain: thanks.
<daftykins> hey folks, hope you're all well :D
<EriC^^> heya
<daftykins> what's new?
<EriC^^> not much
<EriC^^> you?
<daftykins> nah not really, still got a naked PC running on the floor - case *might* show up tomorrow though :)
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> what specs desktop?
<daftykins> i7 6700, 32GB 2400MHz DDR4, Z170 motherboard with USB 3.1 and so on
<daftykins> did i not show you the pics?
<EriC^^> sweet, nope
<daftykins> come over into the other channel and i'll paste :D
<EriC^^> ok
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-21
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5`> No, it's not out yet!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<nicomachus> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !xenial release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3339/
<nicomachus> lol
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<l4m8d4> so, when is 16.04 going to be released today? is there even a fixed time?
<cfhowlett> no
<cfhowlett> be patient!  when it's done, it's done
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje:
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great and you?
<EriC^^> good good
<cfhowlett> I think I may just have to stay off of #ubuntu on release day.  Way too many !isitout? queries
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: hehe
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: send them right to party :p
<cfhowlett> exactly
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: users already botabuse in party also, because its not out yet..
<cfhowlett> too much fun.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-download-new-features
<Guest91579> funnily enough the official site does not have links to that yet
<EriC^^> they're probably still html'ing it
<EriC^^> or something
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-mate-16-04-launches-as-the-first-ever-lts-release-here-s-what-s-new-503262.shtml
<EriC^^> did you see the tablet? m10?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice work
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but with unity8 some more magic will happen
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/10-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-16-04-lts
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: almost out :p
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> probly anticlimactic as usual for us early adopters/testers
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<BluesKaj> like 6 Upgrades or something :-)
<lotuspsychje> yep i did this morning :p
<lotuspsychje> full-upgrade not active yet :p
<BluesKaj> haven't yet
<BluesKaj> Firefox is using over 50% cpu again
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<EriC^^> damn
<EriC^^> i wish i wasn't lazy
<lotuspsychje> why's that
<EriC^^> i want to buy some stuff and fix the car
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> i have to go in a min :p
<EriC^^> bed is too good though
<BluesKaj> and and my my swap was using 1G , never saw that before
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: memory leak maybe
<BluesKaj> yup, seems so EriC^^
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: come to lebanon and drive my car
<BluesKaj> now FF is back to normal...strange
<EriC^^> you'll get really good at clutch and also fix it for me
<EriC^^> and buy the stuff too, to get more in the lebanese culture and stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lolz
<BluesKaj> nice climate there eh EriC^^ , not too hot even in summer?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: set FF cache to 0
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: yes sir
<EriC^^> it reaches i think 32'c or so
<BluesKaj> same as here
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, cache was at 5mb . that's not much
<lotuspsychje> gtg guys see you bit later ; )
<BluesKaj> what would cause swap to use more than RAM  ?
<BluesKaj> swap is at 1.1 and RAM at 0.85G
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: i guess something is using up the ram heavily
<EriC^^> try ps aux | sort -k 4
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I changed the swapiness from 60 to 10 in /etc/sysctl.conf as suggested here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/157793/why-is-swap-being-used-even-though-i-have-plenty-of-free-ram
<BluesKaj> and it worked
<EriC^^> aha
<BluesKaj> I don't have a lot of RAM , but I think 6Gb is fine for my needs
<EriC^^> same here
<BluesKaj> I have a suspicion that when I woke the pc from suspend the swap file didn't entirely empty to RAM when it booted, since the HDD that has the swap partition seemed to be working quite hard for a long time after the desktop appeared \
<BluesKaj> the swap is on a separate outboard sata connected media hdd
<EriC^^> i see
<nicomachus> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !xenial release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3339/
<Scooty> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is going to happen, which will be distributed in both deb version and snaps version
<Scooty> With the whole idea of libraries separation however, how big will the snappy version be? For me, I'm running ubuntu on a netbook, and well, for installing the system and software as well as having swap up, I've used 17GB out of 29GB of it's onboard emmc storage. So, how fat snappy's going to be?
<pauljw> hi everyone
<nicomachus> so do I need to do anything to my xenial box today, or just update && upgrade?
<daftykins> just that'd bring it up to release, yep
<daftykins> should see the 'development release' label get removed
<nicomachus> ð
<daftykins> hmm i got a UTF square box for that one!
<nicomachus> ha, it's supposed to be a thumbs up.
<nicomachus> doesn't render on all clients, though.
<daftykins> i think even when i have KiTTY and screen and irssi setup, even then my font choice could lack the symbols
<daftykins> at least i think that's what it is
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> hey hey! just turning in here :)
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: it caaaaaame! https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkbx3vbk4wu3e3w/IMG_20160421_223946.jpg?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: wow sweet
<Bashing-om> run lotuspsychje run ! It's 16.04 release .. and most have not read the release notes for their issues .
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: its like a tuned car in black :p
<Bashing-om> daftykins: If he were there .. would have a field day !
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> perhaps lucky for them i am banned
<lotuspsychje> hmm seems like sudp apt full-upgrade doesnt work here
<Bashing-om> Not so for us .. I sure miss you .
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: banned?
<daftykins> yeah it's been weeks now :)
<daftykins> Bashing-om: hehe thanks sir!
<Bashing-om> lot of the fun ( and confidence) has departed the channel with your departure :(
<lotuspsychje> !final
<ubot5`> If you install a development version of Ubuntu Xenial and keep up with package updates, then you will be upgraded to the official release of 16.04 when it comes out. To make sure, type Â« sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade Â» in a terminal.
<lotuspsychje> grrr doesnt work
<daftykins> upgrading didn't get you onto current?
<lotuspsychje> says 0 to upgrade
<lotuspsychje> and last update was before final release hmmz
<lotuspsychje> perhaps daily was already almost a final?
<lotuspsychje> could this be?
<tsimonq2> sudo sed -i "s/xenial/devel/g" /etc/apt/sources.list && echo "Yakkety!"
<tsimonq2> :P
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: did you apt update?
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: yes
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: still 0 to upgrade
<tsimonq2> lsb_release -a?
<tsimonq2> mine has:
<tsimonq2> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
<tsimonq2> Description:    Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
<tsimonq2> Release:        16.04
<tsimonq2> Codename:       xenial
<lotuspsychje> Description:	Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> devel gone
<tsimonq2> hmm
<tsimonq2> you do apt dist-upgrade?
<lotuspsychje> 0 to upgrade :p
<tsimonq2> apt list --upgradeable ?
<lotuspsychje> busy with listing..done
<lotuspsychje> nothing to show
<lotuspsychje> smells like im up to date?
<tsimonq2> *nod*
<tsimonq2> now replace Xenial with Devel in your sources.list like the cool kids :P XD
<tsimonq2> $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<tsimonq2> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel main restricted universe multiverse
<tsimonq2> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel main restricted universe multiverse
<tsimonq2> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu devel partner
<tsimonq2> that's mine ^
<tsimonq2> works fine
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<tsimonq2> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel InRelease [247 kB]
<tsimonq2> Hit:2 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu devel InRelease
<tsimonq2> yup
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: are you actually gonna do it? :D
<lotuspsychje> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security main restricted
<lotuspsychje> # deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security main restricted
<lotuspsychje> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security universe
<lotuspsychje> # deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security universe
<lotuspsychje> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security multiverse
<lotuspsychje> # deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu devel-security multiverse
<daftykins> changing to devel is moot
<lotuspsychje> this was already on devel on mine
 * tsimonq2 loves devel
 * daftykins facepalms
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje is running bleachbit and needs to restart for updates
<lotuspsychje> hah
<lotuspsychje> now where getting somewhere
<lotuspsychje> brb reboot
<lotuspsychje> well seems like im up to date
<tsimonq2> o/ night
<sam_yan> Has ubuntu support the offline update by systemd?
<Bashing-om> sam_yan: Ask in the #ubuntu channel .
<lotuspsychje> laterzz
<Elec_A> I have an odd question, but why it takes several monthes to introduce a new version of ubuntu and only major upgrade is supporting several new hardware and unity's ability to go to bottom? I am upgrading from ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 and I literally see no difference and improvement in my work. by the way, I am just a programmer.
<Elec_A> Someone told me whole software collection has been changed. but what was wrong before ?
<Ben64> what would you expect to change?
<Elec_A> Ben64: Yes, good question, if you mean they have fixed bugs, is it really necessary to introduce a new major version ?
<Ben64> the releases are on a set schedule, it doesn't require a big change to get a new version
<dax> and while the software you use may not have changed much, there is plenty of software that did
<Elec_A> Ben64: I am not a windows guy, but when I compare new version windows, I see there are a lot of difference between windows 10 and windows 8.1. and now because they are going to fix just bugs and no major changes, they won't release a new major version during the next decade. I hope you understand what I mean.
<Elec_A> dax: So is it necessary to upgrade to the new ubuntu? can't we get just new version of those softwares ?
<dax> no, because Ubuntu doesn't upgrade packages (with some exceptions) to new major releases after an Ubuntu version is released
<dax> under the theory that adding more bugs is bad, and creating a moving target does that
<dax> and everything in a given Ubuntu version is tested together
<dax> !latest
<ubot5`> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<dax> also, while i'm throwing reasons out there, it is not feasible to perpetually backport security upgrades for old versions of software. ubuntu releases go EOL so that only a certain number of releases are being maintained at once
<yacc_> I have to admit, if I hadn't tried to connect an A2DP headphone to my wife's Windows laptop last week, I'd be much more irritated with 16.04 ;)
<Elec_A> dax: I think I am understanding finally.
<dax> so basically, the thought process goes: 1) do you have release "checkpoints" like Ubuntu or just upgrade packages as they come out like Arch/Gentoo. Ubuntu picks the former; the latter is a moving target of new bugs and a pain for some use cases. 2) If you're going to do release checkpoints, how often and how many are you going to support at once? Ubuntu does every 6 months, and EOLs to only support a
<dax> finite number.
<dax> If it turns out you don't like checkpoints and want to upgrade packages as they come out, use a rolling release distro like Arch or Gentoo, I guess :)
<Elec_A> dax: So maybe at the moment someone is using ubuntu 8.04 and happy with that ?
<dax> !8.04
<ubot5`> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011, Server support ended on May 9th 2013. See http://ubottu.com/y/hardy for more details.
<dax> It hasn't been supported (has been EOL) for 3 years, so it hasn't gotten security updates in that time. Regardless of if they're happy with it, they should not be using it.
<dax> assuming it's running on something that gets external threats, i.e. anything with an internet connection or multiple untrusted users
<dax> i.e. 99% of devices
<dax> and again, it's not supported because it's not feasible to support *everything* going back forever
<Elec_A> dax: oh, I have just finished installing ubuntu 16.04. but I had not any problem with 14.04. I really don't know why I did that though. hmm. Maybe I like to use the latest version always.
<Elec_A> dax: thanks for your explanation.
<Elec_A> dax: I learnt a lot .
<Elec_A> dax: just another question, since as Ben64 said releases are on a schedule, they need to release a new version on time. So there is a possiblity that they realease a new version without any changes right? ( I know they won't do that though :) ) and usually a new version includes security improvements rather than UI or software changes? am I right ?
<Ben64> newer versions of software
<Ben64> security patches go to every supported version
<dax> Elec_A: if the entire Free Software community went on strike for six months, I guess there would indeed be no changes
<dax> Elec_A: new versions include all sorts of changes, which you may or may not encounter depending on what software you use
<dax> after release, as ubot5` said earlier, you will get security updates and may get minor feature updates without changing ubuntu version
<Elec_A> dax: Ok. Got it. It is clear now for me. I was confused at first.
<dax> which is broadly similar to Windows before Win10 was (ignoring service packs)
<Elec_A> Thank you.
<dax> to what*
<zebs> Hi looking for some help when trying to build a server from a mirror that has been signed by a key not in the default keyring?
<lotuspsychje> !server
<ubot5`> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !Trusty (Trusty Tahr 14.04) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide - Support in #ubuntu-server
<lotuspsychje> dax: current lts version 16.04? ^
<TJ-> zebs: use apt-key adv --keyserver <keyserver-url> --recv <key-id>" to add the key
<zebs> I have manged to overwrite the initial keyring file with a preseed early_command but when it gets to the in-target part of the install it is using a new keyring file and wondered if anyone had manged to get round this?
<zebs> i have used the apt-key command in the late_command section so the key is available once the system boots.
<TJ-> zebs: are you using debootstrap?
<zebs> the install is yes
<TJ-> right, and you're using --second-stage ?
<zebs> not sure where would that be specified
<zebs> not sure where would that be specified?
<TJ-> well, with debootstrap if you're building for a different arch (say i386 on an amd64 host, or maybe armhf) debootstrap has to run in 2 stages. In that case there is an issue when second-stage is started where the keyring may need preinstalling
<zebs> i can see in the that debpootstrap installs the ubuntu-keyring package and then sets it up and then base-installer connects to the repos which are signed with the new key. Aafter that it fails to authenticate the packages. I suppose I need to over write or import the missing key.
<zebs> but I cant workout how I would go about that at this stage of the install
<TJ-> in my 2-stage build scripts I pre-install using the command:
<TJ-> ${R_SUDO} dpkg-deb --extract ${R_TARGET}/var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-keyring*.deb ${R_TARGET}
<TJ-> that runs after the first stage (package download) and before second-stage (entry into the chroot)
<zebs> ok how do you implement the 2 stage build?
<TJ-> I think your issue is slightly different in that you've a repo whose package lists are signed by a different key entirely, so you'd at that point need to unpack the ubuntu-keyring *and* "chroot /target apt-key adv --keyring ... --recv <key-id>" too
<TJ-> zebs: see "man deboostrap" - to stop after 1st stage use "debootstrap --foreign ...", do your keyring install + custom key import, then "debootstrap --second-stage ..."
<zebs> ok would I implement that in the pxe append line?
<zebs> or in the preseed file?
<TJ-> zebs: not sure how you'd do it via preseed, not sure if there's a hook to interfere with the deboostrap stage. I thought you were using debootstrap under manual control
<zebs> my fault sorry.
<zebs> no it is from a pxe boot using a pressed file.
<TJ-> I'm sure preseed supports a custom key option
<TJ-> zebs: i'd guess you'd simply do this: create a .deb package in your custom mirror with your keyring, and then use the preseed to specify that package to be added to the installation early on
<zebs> ok I thanks that might be the only option.
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: your on final?
<BluesKaj> yes, but haven't received any upgrades since wed
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: me neither...
<lotuspsychje> tried everything in the book
<lotuspsychje> 0 to upgrade lol
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so that means we had final, before final went out?
<BluesKaj> yeah, disappointing
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: lsb_release -a?
<BluesKaj> no need
<lotuspsychje> Description:	Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
<lotuspsychje> devel got away :p
<lotuspsychje> brb
<west>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER west gqbahqkxwnuz
<DJones> Probably worth not using that password in future now its been posted in the channel
<west> Well, that didn't work like intended.
<DJones> Yeah, blank space in front of the /
<west> Thanks.
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i wonder what the !final was about apt full-upgrade
 * tsimonq2 is happy!
<tsimonq2> $ lsb_release -a
<tsimonq2> No LSB modules are available.
<tsimonq2> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
<tsimonq2> Description:    Ubuntu Yakkety Yak (development branch)
<tsimonq2> Release:        16.10
<tsimonq2> Codename:       yakkety
<tsimonq2> yay!
<tsimonq2> XD
<lotuspsychje> lol
<tsimonq2> devel alias FTW
<tsimonq2> \o/ already updated two packages! XD
<lotuspsychje> im staying away from non-lts
<lotuspsychje> gonna enjoy xenial some years now
<tsimonq2> good for you :)
<tsimonq2> I love always being on the development release
<lotuspsychje> i also like bugging out, for lts :p
<tsimonq2> :P
<tsimonq2> The following packages will be upgraded: base-files distro-info-data
<tsimonq2> 2 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<tsimonq2> FWIW
<tsimonq2> we should really have a mirror like Debian's HTTP redir mirror
<DJones> Can somebody on 16.04 check something for me, if you open Ubutu Software and go tothe updates tab, does it show a single package to be updated, mine does, but won't install it libjpeg-turbo-progs 1.4.2-ubuntu3
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<DJones> Trying from terminal, I get the message that the package has been held back
<lotuspsychje> hmm cant find that package from terminal here
<DJones> I'm on standard Ubuntu with unity, upgraded from 15.10 yesterday
<lotuspsychje> !info libjpeg-turbo-prog xenial
<ubot5`> Package libjpeg-turbo-prog does not exist in xenial
<BluesKaj> DJones, if you're adventurous run full-upgrade
<lotuspsychje> !info libjpeg-turbo-prog wily
<ubot5`> Package libjpeg-turbo-prog does not exist in wily
<lotuspsychje> DJones: exact packagename?
<DJones> !info libjpeg-turbo-progs
<ubot5`> libjpeg-turbo-progs (source: libjpeg-turbo): Programs for manipulating JPEG files. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.0-0ubuntu2 (wily), package size 52 kB, installed size 178 kB
<lotuspsychje> DJones: install works here
<lotuspsychje> universe repo
<DJones> Strange, wonder why thats happening
<lotuspsychje> amd64 1.4.2-0ubuntu3
<lotuspsychje> DJones: did you upgrade from wily with ppa's enabled?
<lotuspsychje> perhaps something shared?
<DJones> Maybe, pretty sure they were automatically disabled on upgrade, ppa for corebird was disabled on upgrade and google chrome ppa is still enabled
<lotuspsychje> DJones: check if your on current xenial kernel aswell? .21 ?
<DJones> Linux Mobius 4.4.0-21-generic #37-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 18 18:33:37 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<lotuspsychje> yep
<DJones> Ah well, no worries with it, was just curious
<lotuspsychje> DJones: perhaps force purge on libjpeg and reinstall?
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<DJones> I suspect its been replaced with something else that conflicts
<dax> !server
<ubot5> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !Trusty (Trusty Tahr 14.04) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide - Support in #ubuntu-server
<dax> hrm
<dax> !+server
<ubot5> <reply> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !$curLTS ($curLTSLong $curLTSNum) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide - Support in #ubuntu-server
<dax> oh, its variables didn't get updated. fun.
<dax> forwarded to Pici
<dax> !server
<ubot5> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide - Support in #ubuntu-server
<dax> yay
<lotuspsychje> dax: tnx :p
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: !!!!!!
<lotuspsychje> wb mate we all missed you
<lotuspsychje> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> thanks lotuspsychje was trying to zsync th kubuntu16.04 iso file but it kept failing and the the torrent was stalled, so I used wget to DL, which actually works :-) , gonna burn the image for a backup
<lotuspsychje> kk :p
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: using usb disk creator?
<lotuspsychje> or dd?
<BluesKaj> the this old pc has a dvdrom
<lotuspsychje> ah kk
<BluesKaj> the kubuntu sources are very busy judging by the DL speed
<lotuspsychje> i bet xenial gets leeched hard
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> 50 discussers :p
<BluesKaj> wow, the 16.04 DL failed even wirth wget
<lotuspsychje> wowz
<BluesKaj> guess I'll wait for a few days
<daftykins> i'd torrent it during the peak days
<lotuspsychje> !torrents
<ubot5> Xenial can be torrented from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/simple/xenial/desktop/ubuntu-16.04-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent or http://torrent.ubuntu.com/simple/xenial/server/ubuntu-16.04-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your needs. Other flavors can be found at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969
<BluesKaj> torrent totally stalled out
<lotuspsychje> ouch
<BluesKaj> wget restarted
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: want me to dcc send you something?
<lotuspsychje> i download at 50mbit here
<BluesKaj> think it's ok now the speed is much better
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> I only havs adsl , the cable co has much faster speeds, but they're too expensive
<BluesKaj> if I decide to cut the cord  on my sattv service then I might switch to cable 50Mb. That will keep my entertainment and communications cost about the same as I pay totally now
<lotuspsychje> but sat is also pretty nice :p
<lotuspsychje> hey davidcalle
<lotuspsychje> davido_:
<davido_> howdy.
<BluesKaj> but it's pita to switch ...new modem etc etc
<BluesKaj> hi davido_
<davido_> So it appears that network manager doesn't recognize the openconnect plugin under Ubuntu 16.04.
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah always new modems/routers cost when switch
<lotuspsychje> davido_: whats the result of that?
<davido_> Not looking for support (because a bug is a bug... nothing to support... plus I can connect to the vpn using the shell), just a word of caution.
<lotuspsychje> i placed a network-manager bug for xenial also
<davido_> Well on a system that previously had the vpn connection set up through NM, you can attempt login, but it will fail. If you attempt to edit the connection, that will fail with a complaint that some file is missing.
<daftykins> when you say openconnect, is that openvpn or something else?
<davido_> And if you attempt to add an openconnect vpn connection through network manager, openconnect will not appear in the dropdown of available vpn protocols.
<davido_> something else.
<davido_> It's an open source version of AnyConnect.
<daftykins> not heard of that one :D
 * lotuspsychje neither
<davido_> yeah, it's probably not terribly popular, but it's the setup my organization decided to use.
<lotuspsychje> davido_: file a new bug?
<davido_> i did.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<davido_> :)
<davido_> anyway, not a big deal because I can still connect using some shell-foo, bypassing network manager.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> just a thought but if you upgraded instead of clean install, i'd try it under a clean user for fun
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<davido_> daftykins: On my one remaining 15.10 box, I installed 16.04 in virtualbox, and installed openconnect there. same issue.  So that's a clean install.
<daftykins> ah ok
<davido_> i'm not about to do a clean install on my $work-station. :)
<davido_> Another issue is that DisplayLink doesn't seem to support anything past 15.10, so my USB3.0 monitor can't be used at the moment until they catch up.
<davido_> that's also minor. i rarely use my usb3.0 monitor.
<davido_> anyway, back to work. :)
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1571454
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1571454 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Wifi + cable only works after network-manager restart" [High,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> didnt happen few days...
<BluesKaj> I have a tp-link wdr3600 router and tp-link low coat modem ,  so replcoing the modem is no big loss
<BluesKaj> davido_, yeah, openvpn here wouldn't connect until  I restarted the network-manager
<davido_> It's all worthwhile just so I can move the launcher to the bottom.  So sick of it sitting between my monitors.
<davido_> hated having to slide my mouse through it to get to the next monitor to the left.
<BluesKaj> I have just one monitor, but it's our TV. I'm a retired home user
<davido_> My work is on a laptop with two 27" monitors attached.
<lotuspsychje> just as i expected, alot of wily to xenial nightmare upgrades again...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> someone was whinging over in #kodi last night about their upgrade going awry, i still don't believe in upgrades on any OS
<daftykins> why cross your fingers and hope when you can backup and put the effort into a nice clean install where you inherit no backward steps
<dax> i've done it with debian because upgrades for it have always been rock solid for me. Windows, Ubuntu, etc. though? clean install all the way
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> and users are so good to mess up their systems first, ppa's, manual installs..then want the upgrade to go flawless
<BluesKaj> I just upgarded from a dailyXenial clean install , but I have a new backup image on a dvd just in case
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<tsimonq2> O__O ALREADY?
<tsimonq2> (Yakkety Yak dailies)
<BluesKaj> I have a solid, if not real dsl connection at my end, kubuntu's end is probly being hammered big time today
<BluesKaj> tsimonq2, is that official for 16.10?
<tsimonq2> BluesKaj: yup :)
<BluesKaj> if not real fast
<davido_> Looks like DisplayLink does intend to support 16.04LTS: http://displaylink.org/forum/showthread.php?s=ecdc41b4a30d5602c067248a5d362946&t=64479
<davido_> Now I'm about to install 14.04 as a guest under virtual box on 16.04.
<Bashing-om> !info libdvdcss wily
<ubot5> Package libdvdcss does not exist in wily
<Bashing-om> !info libdvdcss trusty
<ubot5> Package libdvdcss does not exist in trusty
<pauljw> you can install libdvd-pkg and it will download and install libdvdcss
<Bashing-om> pauljw: Kust messing about .. it is in the package libdvdread4 .
<pauljw> oh, good deal
<pauljw> according to the discript in synaptic, it's not in there and needs to be downloaded
<pauljw> i found this and followed the instructions and it worked, i think, i'm about to test a dvd now
<pauljw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
<Bashing-om> pauljw: 14.04 ?
<pauljw> no, 15.10 and newer, apt-get found the file and performed the operation
<pauljw> run this: sudo apt-get install libdvd-pkg
<pauljw> then follow the instructions to download, build and install libdvdcss
<pauljw> brb.  need to set my dvd player to pass thru to my vm...
<Bashing-om> pauljw: :) nice to have good docs, huh ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-23
<pauljw> no go Bashing-om, vlc opens and immediately crashes.
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> tried running vlc from a terminal to see if it spits out any output?
<daftykins> i don't know if that's how it works mind, i don't use it over in Windows land
<Bashing-om> pauljw: Yuk ! Sorry no experience with VLC .
<pauljw> daftykins,   yeah, and it spit out quite a bit.
<daftykins> :D
<tsimonq2> !info vrms yakkety
<ubot5> 'yakkety' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed
<tsimonq2> gosh darnit
 * tsimonq2 finds the source code for the bot
<daftykins> surely you need someone else to hassle the bots :)
<tsimonq2> how so?
<tsimonq2> I clone the thing, grep for the distros listed above, then add it
<daftykins> nevermind.
<tsimonq2> :)
<daftykins> i thought you were talking about modifying the actual one
<pauljw> Bashing-om, daftykins it's looking for nvidia stuff and my system is intel, but most of this is probably due to being a vm.  will have to pick at for a while and see what i can come up with.
<daftykins> pauljw: hmm, "dpkg -l | grep nvidia" should return nothing?
<daftykins> i guess it (VLC) could be trying to use a bad renderer
<pauljw> that's what it returns, nothing
<daftykins> good good, no irrelevant packages present
<TJ-> pauljw: are you talking about 'vlc' output in terminal?
<pauljw> virtualbox driver may not be up to the task
<pauljw> TJ-, yeah
<daftykins> are you mounting a real DVD drive to the VM and trying to play it? can't think of an issue there
<TJ-> pauljw: as I recall, vlc does a dynamic scan for libraries that support VDPAU, OPENGL, etc., so warnings are fine.
<pauljw> yes, using the host dvd
<TJ-> pauljw: if the libraries aren't there because the hardware is different, the warning is just saying that it didn't find it
<pauljw> libvdpau is in the output
<pauljw> ok
<daftykins> ah probably just looking for nvidia to enable VDPAU or such like
<daftykins> ;D
<TJ-> yeah, libvdpau and libvaapi I think it checks for
<pauljw> but i'm getting this at the end of the terminal output:  xcb_xv vout display error: no available XVideo adaptor
<pauljw> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<daftykins> oh that might just need the prog run in the terminal with an X viewport so it knows where to run? TJ- will know how ;D
<TJ-> pauljw: right, that's due to there being no suitable X output device
<tsimonq2> daftykins: it has to be server-side, asked in #ubuntu-irc and I was pointed to the right person :)
<daftykins> tsimonq2: i didn't need that info
<TJ-> pauljw: are you using an X terminal to start vlc (which you should do), or using a plain VT console (outside of X) ?
<tsimonq2> daftykins: FWIW I thought I would let you know, sorry :P
<pauljw> TJ-, just opening a terminal window and running it
<pauljw> TJ-, well, i switched gears and went with videos and after it installed a bunch of gstreamer stuff, it's now playing 'Star Trek' quite nicely...
<Bashing-om> pauljw: When you are good, yopu are good :)
<pauljw> heheh, well, i wouldn't say i'm good, persistent perhaps.  :)
<pauljw> hope TJ- isn't sitting in a dark corner somewhere trying to figure out my non-issue... :(
<Bashing-om> do not think that TJ- Is ever in the dark .
<pauljw> true that!
<Bashing-om> he reads the source, Luke .
<pauljw> lol
<TJ-> ha! I'm about to crawl into the dark, under the doooooveeet
<TJ-> just realised that since installing on the T300chi, it no longer has touchscreen (but did with the ISO Live)!
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> you have a good night and maybe i'll see ya tomorrow.  i'm outta here too.
<lotuspsychje> good weekend to all
<lotuspsychje> morning davido
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ morning mate
<EriC^^> morning :D
<lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
<TJ-> hiya
<TJ-> did you install 1604 from the Live ISO?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: no upgraded the daily why?
<TJ-> I've been sorting out the issues on the T300chi and jsut noticed its left 'casper' installed :s
<lotuspsychje> me and blueskaj had final, before final went out officially :p
<TJ-> !info casper
<ubot5> casper (source: casper): Run a "live" preinstalled system from read-only media. In component main, is extra. Version 1.376 (xenial), package size 43 kB, installed size 228 kB
<lotuspsychje> by updating it daily
<TJ-> That's the package that runs the Live env, no need for it on an installed system
<TJ-> This stupid Asus has real hot-key input problems. The Fn+F5-F7 that control the backlight brightness aren't linking to the actual brightness control. I've been checking their key codes with 'evtest' and they're generating EV_REL (relative i.e. touchpad) events with the sub-type REL_MISC (miscellaneous I guess) so nothing recognises them
<lotuspsychje> weird
<TJ-> yeah, the vol-down/up/mute work fine generating 'proper' keyboard events, but those 3 and a couple others generate some weird events
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj :p
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: im testing some snap stuff :p
<BluesKaj> dunno why I'd use snappy
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: could be usefull for tablets on unity8
<BluesKaj> well, it's an ubuntu thing which seems to be taking ubuntu away from the dpkg and deb repos
<lotuspsychje> surely alot of stuff happening
<TJ-> it's a good idea from the point of view that users can install the very latest versions of an application, along with dependencies that may be newer than the system libraries, and its all self-contained and doesn't affect the rest of the system
<TJ-> It's a 'wrapper' around the application containers concept basically
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: well at the start of ubuntu-touch, i found it pitty i could not get like nmap on terminal apps
<lotuspsychje> now this all we be possible
<TJ-> I've not touched ubunt-touch... although just this minute discovered all its package names whilst trying to get touchscreen gesture support working on the t300chi
<TJ-> thought i'd found a solution until I realised there were far too many packages named 'touch' for that to be the solution for me :D
<lotuspsychje> well unity8 is comming to all of us in the future
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<pauljw> everyone
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> mornin' BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> oh man...what an upgrade nightmare we having in main
<pauljw> sure is lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> lets hope nobody will choose non-lts anymore lol
<BluesKaj> what's up this morning, pauljw?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, really? what 's the nightmare?
<pauljw> not much here, i've only been up for an hour and on my second cup of coffee so the world is still a blur... :)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: alot of different stuff from wily ==> xenial upgrades
<BluesKaj> yeah, same here, my allergies are acting up so it takes my eyes a while to gain focus after getting up...strange but true.
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> if you watch the -devel channel over the dev cycle you'll see there's not much attention paid to anything desktop related. It's all core, server, cloud, touch
<pauljw> ouch TJ-
<TJ-> been like that for the last 3 releases
<TJ-> and as canonical pays the devs and those are where the money is, thats what gets the focus
<TJ-> the desktop was just the publicity front-end to get the brand well known and get people to adopt ubuntu for other uses, which is why server is now so predominent
<BluesKaj> TJ-, then it's not my cuppa tea ...ubuntu going in a very different direction than kubuntu
<pauljw> pity because it's the lowly enduser that will give the distro bad reviews
<TJ-> non paying end-users don't pay for a staff of ~500
<TJ-> the money is in server/cloud support
<pauljw> very true
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: thats the beauty of flavors, diversity
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but under the hood we all 16.04 right
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: until the 'core' decisions break the flavours, as has happened quite a bit. things like changing underlying libraries to suit Unity and breaking KDE services
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can you test snap find from terminal?
<BluesKaj> ubuntu is definitely going down the enterprise road
<TJ-> for kubuntu that doesn't help at all since kubuntu's packaging stance is only to ship the vanilla upstream code, without kubuntu-specific patches, so there's no procedure to workaround such things
<lotuspsychje> well i better trust ubuntu, then MS for it
<lotuspsychje> so many different distro's found their way into something else
<pauljw> what they usually find is that free doesn't pay the bills
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, don't think I'm going to install snappy
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: you dont need to, its already part of 16.04
<lotuspsychje> try snap find
<BluesKaj> ubuntu-core-snappy is not installed here
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-core-snappy
<ubot5> Package ubuntu-core-snappy does not exist in xenial
<BluesKaj> !snappy
<ubot5> Ubuntu Core is a rendition of Ubuntu with transactional updates using "snappy". For discussion and support, please visit #snappy and see http://www.ubuntu.com/snappy/
<lotuspsychje> !info snap
<ubot5> snap (source: snap): location of genes from DNA sequence with hidden markov model. In component universe, is extra. Version 2013-11-29-1ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 366 kB, installed size 2685 kB
<lotuspsychje> extra
<BluesKaj> snap is different , snappy is the word
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: not installed by default on kde?
<BluesKaj> nope
<lotuspsychje> it is on desktop
 * lotuspsychje needs a big coffee
<BluesKaj> the application called "snappy" as a single word is a media player
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> snappy player
<BluesKaj> the devs should have researched the name choices before deciding
<cfhowlett> bdfl does the naming
<BluesKaj> snappy sounds lightweight for such an important change
<cfhowlett> oh, wait, maybe that's distro only
<lotuspsychje> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/04/22/0448222/turns-out-that-snaps-are-not-secure-in-ubuntu-with-x11
<lotuspsychje> wb
<BluesKaj> desktop froze, FF is still leaking memory ..the API for amd cpus is a problem as wel
<lotuspsychje> oO
<BluesKaj> no problem on my intel cpu laptop
<BluesKaj> with 16.04
<lotuspsychje> wb
<EriC^^> thanks
<lotuspsychje> hi baizon
<baizon> yo yo yo lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hard day work, while we on irc drinking coktails? :p:p
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys going for shaorma and movies after
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> sahtein
<EriC^^> (bon apetite in lebanese)
<lotuspsychje> mmmmmm
<lotuspsychje> with extra strong sauce
<EriC^^> :D
 * lotuspsychje likes spicy
<pauljw> later lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> laterz
<ldsh> Hi, I was wondering, couldn't it be possible to ease the deployment (and reduce costs) of updates and upgrades by merging the good bandwidth of the depots servers and technologies like torrents?
<ldsh> I've already done the upgrade to xenial on one of my computer, and I'm doing it on a second computer now. With a torrent like technology, it would be possible to have a direct transfert (by local network) of files that are common to theses two upgrades, thus saving costly bandwidth for Canonical and a way faster download for me.
<OerHeks> ldsh, something like this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Rsyncmirror
<BluesKaj> id just use the closest mirror to your location
<BluesKaj> ldsh,^
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, does the ubuntu package manager gui have a " find fastest mirror" option available , muon on kde does.
<ldsh> The idea would be a more automated way, this would work for any update/upgrades, with a temporary saving of the files on the personal computers. The main goal would be to use the power of torrents to boost the bandwidth on the few days after an update/upgrade realease.
<OerHeks> BluesKaj, it does, i am still on 15.10, seeding http://i.imgur.com/cdkQAHV.png
<OerHeks> :-D
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, you're a good linux cictizen :-)
<BluesKaj> citizen even
<ldsh> That way would also speed up the first update (I currently have 100Mbit connection), than allows to feed to all the others wanting to update (I have 100mbit on upload too).
<OerHeks> FUP fair use policy, so i guess i can give it away, at least over this weekend
<BluesKaj> ldsh, no data cap ?
<ldsh> BluesKaj, Not that I heard about. It won't last however as I'm here only for 3 more month.
<BluesKaj> ldsh, ok
<ldsh> So, what do you think of this idea to use torrent technology to ease deployment of updates?
<cfhowlett> ldsh, standard and preferred practice
<cfhowlett> or you could set up a custom mirror and deploy the upgrades via netboot setup
<ldsh> cfhowlett, sorry, I don't understand what you mean by your first sentence (there is no verb, I understand the words, but not your meaning).
<cfhowlett> to upgrade multiple systems without repeatedly downloading 16.04, you have a couple of options
<cfhowlett> set up a personal software mirror or
<cfhowlett> use the netboot method to install to multiple machines simulataneously
<cfhowlett> !netboot
<ubot5> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? See http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
<ldsh> cfhowlett, This is not exactly the purpose of the idea I try to express here (maybe I'm not expressing myself well enough).
<cfhowlett> ldsh, eh, ignore me then.
<ldsh> The idea is to have a system that would ease the deployment of updates (particularly upgrades), to every ubuntu users, and automatically. Not a specific action for a particular user.
<ldsh> Basically, on the user side, an option at first install asking if you agree to participate seeding, and a bandwidth cap. Than, the update manager would handle everything automatically.
<ldsh> then*
<pauljw> wb
<BluesKaj> thanks pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> trying to track down a serious memory leak
<pauljw> ooh, not good
<pauljw> hi Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Hry hey .. looks like the fang is all here . less TJ- .
<nicomachus> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/yakkety/
<nicomachus> already out. wow.
<pauljw> nice nico
<pauljw> have you installed it yet?
<BluesKaj> I changed my sources.list with sed to yakkety from xenial and ran an upgrade, surprised that 7 packages showed up. That was yesterday..today I had 5 more, so I changed my hostname too.
<BluesKaj> 19 more jusat showed up now
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> going to keep Xenial on the laptop tho, at least for now
<Cedara> the .1 release would be out in July, right?
<Cedara> hi, btw
<Bashing-om> Cedara: Yeah .. Per the release notes .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-24
<Bashing-om> !info vlc xenial
<ubot5> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.2-5 (xenial), package size 1474 kB, installed size 4586 kB
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> ohayo gozaimashita cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> konichiwa lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> :p
<cfhowlett> you on 16.04 yet?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> ive helped testing bugs out on daily
<cfhowlett> something for you ... wait 1.  slow internet pipe here
<wafflej0ck> Upgraded my dev machine yesterday to 16.04 (gnome edition) been really happy with everything, had to do some fiddling with some PHP7 config but really not major road blocks.  Thanks anyone in here who made that so smooth.
<lotuspsychje> wafflej0ck: glad you like it mate
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> hi baizon
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje, pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> dreary weather here, a good day to stay inside and relax :-)
<lotuspsychje> yeah rainy grey here aswell
<lotuspsychje> coffee + irc makes it all good :p
<pauljw> little chilly here this morning, 44F, but going up to 77F later today
<BluesKaj> yup, on my 3rd cup .. that's my limit
<lotuspsychje> im a real coffee addict here :p
<lotuspsychje> 3 cans would fit my needs lol
<pauljw> measure my coffee intake by the pot
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> so how you guys drink it? black? milk &suga?
<pauljw> black
<BluesKaj> it's cool here too, 5C/41F, only 10C/50F this aft
<cfhowlett> clearly consuming an inferior brew.  try this:  http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-earth/
<BluesKaj> milk and stevia sweetener
<lotuspsychje> milk & cane sugar here
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: nice own brew coffee :p
<pauljw> cfhowlett, that impressive
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: nice seeding, helps community alot
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: wich flavor did you install yourself?
<OerHeks> Not upgraded yet, i wait untill monday or so
<lotuspsychje> kk
<OerHeks> Ubuntu-unity ofcourse
<lotuspsychje> : )
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: you?
<pauljw> me, i'm using ubuntu-unity but i'm only running 16.04 in virtualbox for now.  like it so far
<lotuspsychje> great
<pauljw> spent about 10hrs in the vm yesterday, only issue i had was that the menus disappeared once and had to restart unity to correct
<lotuspsychje> yeah we had some users with that issue
<pauljw> so far so good today... :)
<pauljw> over all the system seems a bit snappier even while in a vm.
<wyoung> werd
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: unity works good for millions of users
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you can only speak of your own system and experience
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I have had issues with it
<lotuspsychje> so dont projects your own experiences to new users
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: mostly with third part apps, keyboard focus and ALT+TAB recognision
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: ppa's are not supported officially
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: why not? I am not making this shit up
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: it is a fact that is happens
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you can only speak of your system
<ikonia> wyoung: you don't need to sweap please
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am not talking about ppas
<ikonia> swear
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am talking about running java apps for eample
<wyoung> example*
<wyoung> or thunderbird
<wyoung> ikonia: :\
<wyoung> ok
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you can file bugs
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: and test LTS versions
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: plus this isn't with just my own system, I support a number of clients that have reported similar problems
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am downloading the latest LTS as we speak
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: my issues was with 14.04 - 15.10
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: problems are there to solve, this has nothing to do with unity weing terrible
<lotuspsychje> being
<wyoung> it may not even be with 16.04 but the other releases are still supported atm
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: gnome, kde and xfce doesn't have this issues, so yes, it is unity specific
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: whos us bugs that proves its unity related
<lotuspsychje> show
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I will leave that up with ubuntu developers to figure that out
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: the fact is it exists
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: wich facts?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: THe fact that it has happend to myself and a number of other people
<lotuspsychje> what happened?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I don't have a debugger or console outputting logging this stuff when it happens
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: the issues I noted above
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: and in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: if you have an issue, bug it
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: that doesnt prove unity is bad
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: ? nothing crashes so I don't get the option to
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: ive been using unity from the ubuntu start, years without issues
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I also dislike the bug filing process on ubuntu's website / launchpad
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: it asks alot of unneeded questions or questions I cannot answer but are marked as required, so I usually can't get anything filed
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: if you dont file bugs, nothing gets solved
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am notifying you here
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: this is an official channel is it not?
<ikonia> this is not how bugs are tracked
<ikonia> it is your responsibility to log them - and follow them up
<ikonia> or engage with others
<wyoung> ikonia: I am enging
<wyoung> engaging*
<ikonia> no you're not
<wyoung> ikonia: ---^
<ikonia> you're just talking to random people in an IRC channel
<wyoung> that are affiliated with ubuntu
<wyoung> well, the channel even
<ikonia> so ?
<ikonia> doesn't mean the right people are here and monitoring
<ikonia> come on ubot9
<wyoung> so they are not random
<ikonia> !bugs | wyoung
<ubot5> wyoung: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<wyoung> they are affiliated
<ikonia> wyoung: no they are not
<ikonia> wyoung: I am nothing to do with the ubuntu project - I am here
<ikonia> I'm not affilated in anyway
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: wining about unity is 'terrible' and then rejecting to filing bugs isnt gonna help
<ikonia> wyoung: have a read of the link about how to report bugs if you're intereted in reporting bugs
<DJones> wyoung: Everybody here is exactly like you, just a regular ubuntu user
<wyoung> ikonia: oh, so why do you have the right to tell me I am warned for? if you are not afilkited with ubuntu, being this is an offical ubuntu channel
<wyoung> ikonia: are you just beign a dick?
<wyoung> being*
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: there are guidelines
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: no need to become rude here...stay professional
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: so therefore there are people in these channel who moderate and are affilated?
<ikonia> wyoung: stop with the attitude and language
<wyoung> ikonia: I will
<wyoung> ikonia: I am just getting annoyed
<ikonia> last warning
<wyoung> ikonia: last warning, so you are affilated?
<ikonia> I'm getting annoyed with you and your attitude
<ikonia> yet I'm not swearing and name calling you
<ikonia> wyoung: no, I'm not
<wyoung> ikonia: did I call you a name?
<wyoung> besides ikonia that is
<ikonia> and to be honest, you're trying to pick holes in a weak way, rather than just log a bug to help
<wyoung> ikonia: so how can you warn me?
<ikonia> wyoung: yes, you asked me if I was being a dick
<ikonia> wyoung: I'm a channel operator,
<ikonia> the guidelines are laid out about how to use the ubuntu channels
<ikonia> anyone can warn you
<ikonia> anyone is free to guide you and if needed warn you to stay in line with them
<ikonia> !guidelines | wyoung
<ubot5> wyoung: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<wyoung> ikonia: yes, asked, I didn't accuse you of being one, it was a question
<ikonia> wyoung: you're on thin ice, tone down the attitude and language please
<wyoung> ikonia: what language?
<ikonia> swearing
<ikonia> asking if people are being a dick
<ikonia> be polite
<wyoung> ikonia: I didn't say any profanities between the last time you mentoend I did
<ikonia> wyoung: read the guidelines before you continue to comment in the channel please
<wyoung> ikonia: I don't consider that a swear word, but ok, i won't use it in the future
<ikonia> it may save a lot of discussion that isn't needed
<wyoung> ikonia: does the guidlines list the words I cannot use here?
<ikonia> not an exact list, but you'll get the idea of what is accetpable / not
<ikonia> please have a read
<wyoung> ikonia: if not then how do I know what word is allowed?
<wyoung> ikonia: I have
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: whats your endgoal with all this?
<ikonia> great, then I won't need to warn you about any more problem behaviour, thank you
<wyoung> ikonia: well, not recently, but the date stamp seems to be around the last time I read it
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: what in the world are you trying to prove to the ubuntu community now?
<wyoung> ikonia: that is correct, keep that to yourself
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: nothing, just talking to ikonia here atm, I will get to you later
<ikonia> wyoung: behave in line with the guidelines and there will be no need to remove you from the channels, as there will be no more warnings
<wyoung> hang tight
<wyoung> ikonia: since you are not affilated with ubuntu that is fine, if I am banned by you then you lied to me, and you are unethical and a terrible person
<ikonia> please stop trying to cause a problem - I won't ask again, I am nothing to do with the ubuntu project, I am an operator of some of the community run and managed channels
<ikonia> discuss ubuntu here - join #ubuntu-ops if you want to discuss the policy
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: before you join the ubuntu channels, you need to know about the guidelines
<ikonia> but stop trying to push a pointless discussion
<wyoung> ikonia: grrrrr
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I know them
<ikonia> you've said you read the guidelines - comply with them or you will leave, clear
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I just do't recognise ikonia as being an enforcer of them
<wyoung> don't*
<ikonia> ignore my warnings then - and you'll be forced to leave, it's that simple
<wyoung> ikonia: so you are affilated
<wyoung> ikonia: you lied
<ikonia> please return to discussing ubuntu topics rather than this petty attempt to win a poitnless agrument
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: the ops are needed for guys like you misleading users..
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I wasn't misleading them
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: saying unity is terrible and they might choose another Os?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: misleading implies I was lying, I was not, the issues I stated exist
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: no, I didn't say OS, I said windows manager  / version of ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you cant project your own system issues to others
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: xubuntu is great
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: all flavors are great
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: as I stated eariler it wasn;t a single system, the issues I had expands over multiple different computers and even differetn people
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you cant prove that
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: ubuntu is poor though in comparison to the others
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: you like going around in circles do you?
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: if the user dont understand well, yes
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: as I have stated, I don't dislike the ubuntu project, just unity.  I am not misleading users by stating that as there are severel issues with it
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: YOUR issues with unity
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you cant say that in #ubuntu to others
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: of course I can
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: as it isn't false
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: #ubuntu is meant to get your issues solved
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: not to spread misinformation
<ikonia> you can give an opinon that is negative,
<ikonia> just be a bit thoughtful about how you give it
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: ffs, it isn't missinformation
<wyoung> ikonia: of course
<ikonia> I often say I'm not a fan of unity , but thats only because I don't like it personally (some features)
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I respect ikonia more than you, even though he isn't affilated with ubuntu but likes to issue warnings
<ikonia> wyoung: stop messing around,
<wyoung> ikonia: I am discussing
<ikonia> you're still flogging a dead horse,
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: your making it difficult just for yourself
<ikonia> it's just going to end up with you getting removed and banned
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: with attitude like this, you wont take long in #ubuntu
<ikonia> there is no desire for that
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: with my attitude? yours is very rigidm have fun with that
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: and I have been visiting #ubuntu for many years, I will see you in there for a few more to come
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: youl make a mistake very soon, we have seen users like you come and go...
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: you have been here for a few years too?
<ikonia> guys, maybe we could return to the ubuntu topic ?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am glad we are in different time zones
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: im using ubuntu since the start
<wyoung> ikonia: yes lets, unity has issues with keyboard focus, how about that/.
<ikonia> wyoung: I suggest logging a bug
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: #ubuntu for support issues
<OerHeks> 3 Gb to go .. http://i.imgur.com/WAnG9A4.png
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: nice one mate :p
<OerHeks> My provider is cool
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: how much upload speed you got?
<ikonia> OerHeks: nice contribution
<OerHeks> 5 mb .. but currently watching ip-tv on a win10 machine too.
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: thnx, I would suggest I channel for you (#stfu) but you won't fit in there
<ikonia> wyoung: that is not acceptable
<ikonia> wyoung: STOP with your language
<ikonia> and stop being rude to people
<wyoung> ikonia: acronyms are disallowed too/.
<ikonia> wyoung: yes, - it's clear what you are telling him to do and it is not acceptable
<ikonia> you said you have read the rules - this is being rude to someone, so stop now
<wyoung> ikonia: abbreviations and acronyms are not allowed?
<ikonia> it's not just the words - it's your intetion, stop talking to people like this please
<wyoung> ikonia: no, I am saying it won't fit into specific topic of a channels
<wyoung> ikonia: I wasn't swearing to him at all
<wyoung> it = he
<lotuspsychje> ikonia: he's just searching for words that would bypass guidelines
<wyoung> or at him
<ikonia> lotuspsychje: yes, it's clear what's going on here, and it will end now
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: no, I am just not breaking the guidelines
<OerHeks> Why is ubuntu-stufio-amd64 so populair this release?
<ikonia> wyoung: you are - you are being rude to someone stop it
<OerHeks> or is it just me, seeding?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I am following them
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: perhaps by the new maintainer?
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, yeah, i read about that
<ikonia> OerHeks: I think a lot of the audio stuff was upgraded
<ikonia> OerHeks: gives a gew people another oppertunity to maybe use it for audio production,
<lotuspsychje> cool
<wyoung> ikonia: that is just your opionion / Interpretation though
<wyoung> ikonia: you should rephrase that
<wyoung> ikonia: add some fluff to it
<ikonia> wyoung: is this how you want it to end ?
<ikonia> ok - enough now
<ikonia> this isn't going to work out for you
<wyoung> ikonia: if you think I am breaking guidlines then I thnk making idol threats is also breaking them
<wyoung> ikonia: so stop making them,
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: OerHeks just asked what makes the new studio xenial so popular? he's seeding torrents
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: what is stuiod xenial?
<wyoung> studio*
<lotuspsychje> !codenames | wyoung
<ubot5> wyoung: Ubuntu has awesome release codenames. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames for more
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, I suspect the US users are like me: LTS only.  so this is like xmas time
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: studio is a codename?
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: audio stuff + lts then?
<cfhowlett> audio + visual multimedia production
<lotuspsychje> cool
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: code name for ubuntu?  what version will be / is studio?  16.04?
<wyoung> I thought that was xenial
<lotuspsychje> !studio | wyoung
<ubot5> wyoung: UbuntuStudio is a collection of packages for the artist who wishes to use Ubuntu as their Digital Audio Workstation. It contains all the best Audio/Visual components from the Ubuntu repositories. For more info and install instructions, join #ubuntustudio or see http://ubuntustudio.org
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: thnx buddy, that makes more sense now
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: does that include gimp?
<pauljw> man, do i love the ignore list!!
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you can download ubuntu studio and find out :p
<cfhowlett> pauljw, indeed!
<wyoung> I have had issues with gimp, I open up images and it changes / interrupts colours differently
<pauljw> :)
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: or I can ask in a disccusion channel/
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you didnt read the guidelines?
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: unless you are going to be a ikonia about it
<cfhowlett> wyoung, dial back the attitude
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: you think your real smart dont you
<wyoung> cfhowlett: lotuspsychje is bringing the attitude in here, I am just fling it back to him
<cfhowlett> wyoung, so very mature
<wyoung> flinging*
<cfhowlett> but the guidelines apply.  even to you.
<wyoung> cfhowlett: no, I just look up to lotuspsychje as a role model, so I am following his lead
<wyoung> cfhowlett: I know
<ikonia> I suggest you just ignore wyoung for the moment, it will end shortly
<wyoung> cfhowlett: I am following them
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: nope
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: I think the world of you though
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: whatcha wearing?
<cfhowlett> OK I think we've seen enough.  release the ban hammer
<lotuspsychje> wyoung: im wearing a black t-shirty with UNITY IS GREAT!
<wyoung> cfhowlett: nah I think lotuspsychje and ikonia have learnt their lesson, go easy one them
<wyoung> one = on
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: and on the front it says "I like contradictions"
 * lotuspsychje sit back and enjoys the show
<wyoung> lotuspsychje: can I watch?
<OerHeks>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-discuss
<OerHeks> \/msg chanserv op #ubuntu-discuss
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: your op here?
<ikonia> he is now :)
<lotuspsychje> : )
<lotuspsychje> ikonia: he's been trolling and misleading all week in #ubuntu
<cfhowlett> learn the lesson or be the lesson ...
<ikonia> I've just gone through some notes and found him unacceptable
<ikonia> sorry it took time to sort out
<ikonia> thank you OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> ikonia: dont worry, he was walking on the thin red line...
<lotuspsychje> ikonia: some trolls are harder to catch this way
<ikonia> more than enough rope, just needed a little help from OerHeks
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ikonia> which he delivered great
<lotuspsychje> dtgr: welcome, how can we help you?
<ikonia> lotuspsychje: wrong channel ;)
<lotuspsychje> ikonia: could be our friend re-visiting :p
<lotuspsychje> they usually do after a fresh ban
<dtgr> just checking out IRC, anything special on this chan or smth?
<pauljw> nah, he couldn't keep his mouth shut this long
<ikonia> as long as he doesn't behave like he was before, he's welcome to a new identity
<lotuspsychje> dtgr: this is the ubuntu discussing channel, how did you find us?
<dtgr> someone just linked from #ubuntu
<pauljw> dtgr, are you new to ubuntu/linux and irc?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<TJ-> afternoon :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys pancake time :p
<pauljw> mmm... pancakes....
<BluesKaj> I found the memory leak , it was the origin adblocker
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> guess I'll just put up with the ads for now
<pauljw> origin didn't work well for me, don't remember what it did, but i switched to Bluhell Firewall and it works nicely
<OerHeks> Doesn't that adblocker create a lot of traffic?
 * OerHeks uses adguard-adblocker
<TJ-> BluesKaj: have you tried using "umatrix" - I've found that the best solution. it does the job of noscript,adblock,noflash and everything else and is really easy to work with and understand
<TJ-> some overview here (it's in the addons.mozilla.org and so on) https://github.com/gorhill/httpswitchboard/wiki/How-to-use-HTTP-Switchboard:-Two-opposing-views
<BluesKaj> TJ-, thanks ...looking
<TJ-> I love it, so slick compared to all the others, which feel klunky in comparision. click the icon, it shows the switchboard, generally allows of 1st-origin access but blocks 3rd party by default. Shows pink/red for blocked.. click in the top 1/2 of a square and it changes to green which means 'allowed' Click the 'refresh' icon and the page reloads. click the padlock icon to remember those settings
<TJ-> permanently
<TJ-> click the top 1/2 of a hostname in the left column and all that domain's common facilities are enabled... etc
<BluesKaj> tj easy for you difficult for me ...I don't see a sitchboard , only an example
<BluesKaj> sweems it's meant mostly for chromium , my default is FF
<BluesKaj> think I'll stick with Bluhell
<TJ-> BluesKaj: when its installed there's its icon on the taskbar top of the browser. click it and the switchboard shows where you cna control everything with a few clicks
<pauljw> biab
<TJ-> here's a screenshot of the switchboard opened on the BBC news site: http://iam.tj/projects/misc/umatrix.jpg
<ikonia> TJ-: how did you generate that
<TJ-> what?
<ikonia> that umatrix window
<ikonia> (sorry - I'm missing part of the chat on this it would seem)
<TJ-> the image? just used the snapshot tool to capture an area
<ikonia> sorry, I mean how did that information get generated
<TJ-> in the umatrix switchboard? that's what umatrix extensio does, it control access to all the resources on a page. that's its control panel
<ikonia> that looks very useful, I've never heard of it before
<TJ-> It's much faster and more flexible that things like adblock, ublock origin, noscript et al
<TJ-> same here... I got a tip about it on Hacker News in a discussion last year about AdBlocker
<TJ-> It's one of those tools that genuinely has a 'wow' factor and it doesn't get in the way, it makes it easy to reason and control access at a glance, temporarily, or permanently
<OerHeks> jay, 100 Gb+ >> http://i.imgur.com/vDXDo7N.png
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Quiet Sunday ? Going well .
<lotuspsychje> pretty active support today :p
<Bashing-om> Yeah .. been on a bit .. and has been steady .
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys movietime :p
<lotuspsychje> have a nice evening
<Bashing-om> ikonia: I admire your patience .. see if hep7 ever gets help form me .
<OerHeks> wyoung was the little brother of hep7
<daftykins> are you guys starting a fan club? :>
<OerHeks> fan club ..
<daftykins> there could be a volunteers hall of fame
<OerHeks> In the dutch community, we had a ubuntero-of-the-month .. but that stopped when there was nobody left but me
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> ( to choose from)
<OerHeks> http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/community/webteam/UbunterosVanDeMaand
<daftykins> :D
 * OerHeks silly
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning txtechnow
<txtechnow> sup
<lotuspsychje> just wakeup with coffee
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> morning Extremeadin
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys happy easter monday
<Bashing-om> done guys g nite - gonna leave the box up and see if it freezes up overnight . \o
<ducasse> morning all
<xangua> Morning here technically
<EriC^^> morning
<ducasse> hiyup EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi ducasse, how's it going?
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<EriC^^> good as well, thanks
<ducasse> any plans for the day?
<EriC^^> not much, need to get some groceries later
<EriC^^> what about you?
<ducasse> EriC^^: nothing major, i'm just messing with my arch install. something is also odd with my desktop, lots of usb resets it seems like. might try to dig a bit deeper on that.
<baizon> so unity 8 is dead, like i mention it :/
<EriC^^> ducasse: aha
<EriC^^> baizon: i thought the community was going to further develop it?
<brunch875> I'm giving fedora a spin but I'm not convinced by it
<brunch875> I'll give suse a go
<baizon> it is, but it has to many mir dependecies, so they have also to port mir on top of wayland :D
<EriC^^> i only tried it on a vps once, yum seemed super slow though
<ducasse> EriC^^: i get lots of 'new high-speed usb device' messages, and on boot all input in the bios gets really slow after three-four seconds. everything seems to work, though.
<brunch875> but so far ubuntu seems the most friendly to "working out of the box"
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - how's life?
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, good here and you?
<ducasse> i'm good, but i'm slightly worried my desktop has a hardware usb problem. it doesn't seem to keep the system from running, though. :)
<EriC^^> how old is it ducasse
<BluesKaj> what kind of problem?
<ducasse> nearly 2 years
<ducasse> tons of these in the logs:
<ducasse> [76444.217477] usb 3-5.1: new high-speed USB device number 8 using xhci_hcd
<EriC^^> my hp is like 3 years old when it suddenly wouldn't work in uefi mode anymore, i switched to legacy for it
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/132266/usb-device-messages-flooding-dmesg-and-console
<EriC^^> it doesn't really solve anything, it does hint to the obvious though, something is disconnecting and reconnecting
<ducasse> that's what i was thinking, but there's no device in whatever port this is
<ducasse> seems it's the port or hub itself
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> the message does say like something is connected though
<EriC^^> like it's detecting something, a flash disk for instance or something like that
<EriC^^> google sayd xhci_hcd is the module for usb 3.0
<EriC^^> *says
<ducasse> yes, but there is nothing in any of the usb 3 ports. it looks to me like the port is flapping. looking now for instructions on turning it off...
<ducasse> ok, switching the hub off stops the messages. i'll just disable it in the firmware.
<ducasse> BluesKaj: problem tracked down and solved \o/
<ducasse> TIL a whole lot about usb on linux...
<BluesKaj> so what did you do, ducasse ?
<ducasse> the output i was looking at actually had the port offset by 1, which was why i couldn't figure it out. as soon as i figured this out it was pretty obvious, it was an android tablet connected to the usb hub in my monitor that was doing the flapping. disconnected it and all is fine.
<ducasse> it was on a usb2 hub/port, though, so i'm still wondering where xhci came from...
<ducasse> (i should have thrown that tablet away a long time ago anyway, it's crap.)
<BluesKaj> odd that lsusb would get the port number wrong, or did you use a different hw discover command?
<ducasse> usb-devices, and i found a post that said "You will need to add "1" (arithmetic one) to "Cnt" to get the rank Rank=Cnt+1"
<ducasse> this helped me 'map' it to how the ports are listed in my mobo manual, which was what i was having trouble with (aside from the xhci thing being a red herring)
<BluesKaj> interesting, I'll keep the 'usb-devices' phrase in mind
<ducasse> BluesKaj: do you want the link?
<ducasse> sharing it anyway, as this had useful info ;) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1163824/linux-usb-turning-the-power-on-and-off/7037295#7037295 - there is a lot of other useful stuff on usb on that page, btw.
<BluesKaj> thanks ducasse
<ducasse> np. i'm _really_ glad this wasn't a hw problem with my desktop. if that tablet ceases to function i won't miss it, but my desktop would have been very different :)
<Bashing-om> Back on ... Good morning all .
<EriC^> morning Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^: We see what the day brings .. looks to be a busy one :)
<EriC^> yup :)
<Menzador> Yo!
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om - how are things?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: L00king well - so far so good :) . You look also to have things in your world under control :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yep, done a little usb digging :) everything is fine now, though, and i've made a note in the manual :) now i'm toying with arch, just trying it out on my desktop.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: My freezes may be related to th nouvuau driver. installed nVidia and thus far no freezes in 24+ hours .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: awright! :) let's hope it stays that way. which gpu was this?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: GT710 . Went proprietary as I could come up with nothing else to try .. and I do mean try . As I can not see how the nouvea driver could bring the system to a halt . ( froze up and can not even ping the box from the LAN !) .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: aiui a kernel driver can freeze the whole kernel, which is why some people advocate microkernel designs. my grasp of this is limited, though.
<daftykins> just an example of FOSS not working most likely!
<daftykins> (nouveau being wonky)
<ducasse> :-P
<daftykins> i mean i know they have to reverse engineer it on their own, so it's not their fault exactly
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I tend now to look at it that as I have a Nvida mainbord chipset . maybe the nvidia graphics driver interprets the better ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: possible, they're two entirely different beasts.
<daftykins> nah nvidia chipsets have historically been pretty terrible
<Bashing-om> Well, My fingers are still crossed . see if this system stays up .. else 2 hours and I can have the Asrock system running !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: how often did it crash before?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: varied .. After some changes might be up a running for a few days before the freezes again set in - why my fingers are still crossed - .
<daftykins> Bashing-om: is this your machine that you were having problems with 16.04 installed on the new SSD with? i'd have always been running nvidia over nouveau :)
<daftykins> wow that first sentence was bad
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yeah, same same machine . has not been stable since the install of the SSD AND the GT710 card at the same time . Have made a lot of progress however and I am very hopeful now that all is good .
<daftykins> \o/
<Bashing-om> daftykins: This ole box .. similar to placing new wine in old wineskin ! It has been a challenge finding out what it takes to interface the new hardware .
<ducasse> daftykins: for me as a non-native english speaker that sentence was mind-bending ;)
<daftykins> hehe sorry, yeah i wanted to point that out so nobody strained over it
<daftykins> was almost as bad as literally translated German :>
<ducasse> when you mentally translate things as you read the words, things like that can get Really Wrong :)
<EriC^> :D
<EriC^> hey daftykins o/
<daftykins> o hai \o
<EriC^> i was playing horizon zero dawn
<EriC^> it's a good game!
<Bashing-om> Me ??  I have difficultiy enough translating english to English - much less English to German .
<EriC^> the story is very on your feet kind of, what to expect hmm
<daftykins> ah i had been watching a twitch streamer play that
<nacc> EriC^: yeah, i've been enjoying it too!
<EriC^> :D
<luizcarvalho> hello
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> nacc: got !flavors changed , yay
<nacc> lotuspsychje: nice!
<nacc> !flavors
<ubot5> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
<nacc> oh that's so much better
<nacc> lotuspsychje: thank you!
<lotuspsychje> nacc: with /msg ubottu !factoid is ..text here
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, i figured others may want to see :)
<lotuspsychje> dax changed it
<lotuspsychje> so the attempts do find their way now
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> no freezes yet?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Nope ! still doing well ! did tun into a bug that has a fix in installing the nVidia driver . Still - looking good !
<Bashing-om> tun/run*
<lotuspsychje> yay
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Fingers still crossed - :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> wb Ben64
<Ben64> ew
<Ben64> my internet is dumb
<lotuspsychje> lol wich provider would that be Ben64
<Ben64> time warner / spectrum
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> have a hot tea :p
<ducasse> \o lotus
<ducasse> i am :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: work today or staying here with us? :)
<lotuspsychje> working day and rainy here
<lotuspsychje> : (
<lotuspsychje> rain is perfect for whole day irc :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys, have a nice one :p
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/dell-launches-precision-5720-all-in-one-workstation-powered-by-ubuntu-16-04-lts-514958.shtml
<ducasse> good morning everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> day off today
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-1710-no-email-client-default
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-will-run-wayland-default
<ducasse> wayland by default - interesting.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps at 17.10
<lordievader> Good morning
<Bashing-om> changes again are comming !
<lotuspsychje> hey there lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys breakfast
<ducasse> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<ducasse> still on the morning tea, reading news.
<Bashing-om> Smoke Break ! imibe in my nasty habit -
<ducasse> me too, my friend...
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<trijntje> so many changes comming to ubuntu these past few weeks! But overall I think its good that ubuntu will stay closer to upstream
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> good morning BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse, how's things?
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<BluesKaj> fine here too
<ducasse> i'm currently prepping the server to switch the root disk, backing up the config stuff and moving services into containers. hope to actually put in a new disk this week.
<BluesKaj> assume the root disk is a ssd ?
<ducasse> not now, no. but it will be.
<BluesKaj> right
<ducasse> everything else is just storage, so hdds. not much point in ssd-backed network storage on gigabit lan :)
<BluesKaj> the samasung evo ssd breathed new life into this old pc , just shows how hdds are bottleneck
<BluesKaj> samsung rather
<ducasse> absolutely, even my old core 2 duo seemed usable with an ssd.
<BluesKaj> yup, this is an amd 5200+ dual core cpu
<BluesKaj> dunno how long the mobo and cpu will last, but we'll just keep on chugging along :-)
<ducasse> my server is a phenom ii something quad, iirc. as long as zfs has a bit of ram it's fine for what it does. i'm thinking of getting a new mobo + an i3 or i5 this summer, though.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubports-recommends-buying-fairphone-2-oneplus-one-or-nexus-5-as-ubuntu-phones-514949.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lto
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje:
<lotuspsychje> all ok there
<EriC^^> yeah, you?
<lotuspsychje> fine, day off here :p
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> sunny outside , but cool
<lotuspsychje> lfei: welcome
<lotuspsychje> bye oO
 * ducasse yawns
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: slow today :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah ducasse, seems like zzzZZZzzz
<ducasse> more tea!
<lotuspsychje> yessss
<lotuspsychje> ill have an icetea :p
<ducasse> go for it, i say :)
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows if gnome shell do classic shell by default also?
<lotuspsychje> (gnome classic)
<ducasse> wasn't that killed off? i might be wrong.
<lotuspsychje> can be ducasse, ill have to test gnome soon :p
<lotuspsychje> but the comments on recent omgubuntu article skared me :p
<lotuspsychje> : http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/poll-tried-gnome-shell-ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> they all mention gnome extensions
<ducasse> comments on omgubuntu can be pretty worthless, though ;)
<ducasse> afaik extensions are more or less necessary to make gnome bearable.
<lotuspsychje> then lets hope 18.04 gnome will be influenced alot to make ubuntu vanilla a nice experience
<lotuspsychje> or ill have to fight with mark :p
<ducasse> "I tried virtual Debian running gnome as I think that Ubuntu with gnome will be the same as Debian with gnome."
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: and what was your feeling about it?
<ducasse> "i think" meaning "i have no clue what i'm talking about" :)
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj seems also happy with vanilla debian
<BluesKaj> not vanilla lotuspsychje, Debian stretch KDE/plasma
<ducasse> debian is nice, i _hate_ gnome though.
<BluesKaj> never been a gnome fan
<BluesKaj> think unity was worse tho
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: some comments on that article say kde is a bit of resource hog? true/untrue<?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  it uses more than most DEs but it 's so flexioble and doesn't need an addon compostor, kwin takes care of that
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: easy to tweak then?
<BluesKaj> yes, it's been my DE for 12 yrs now
<BluesKaj> I'm old school tho, the breese theme isn't my cup of tea
<BluesKaj> breeze even
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well ill testout kubuntu-desktop xenial soon then
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: the thing with gnome/kde being resource hogs is that they do a lot of stuff by default that lighter desktops don't handle :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: heavier then unity?
<ducasse> about the same, probably.
<BluesKaj> this is a shot of dolphin using a simple theme https://imagebin.ca/v/3Jc1I7JeISZR
<lotuspsychje> dont wanna go lubuntu or xubuntu on my customers machines neither as underkill
<hendrix> I've used kde even on dualcore/2gb pc from 2006 and it didn't feel slow or jerky.
<lotuspsychje> lookin neat BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> ducasse:  yes that's correct about kde and default working in the bckground , One thing about debian is a  lot of apps that are default on Kubuntu are left out in debain /kde
<BluesKaj> debian/kde
<BluesKaj> but they're mostly in the repos
<BluesKaj> for example dkms is not default , surprising
<lotuspsychje> hi krypto_
<lotuspsychje> installed gnome shell
<lotuspsychje> lets c if i can tweak some stuff with gnome-tweak-tool now
<oerheks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> weird oO
<lotuspsychje> dear lord its bad...
<daftykins> i bet you even more people are going to be moaning than they do over Unity :)
<lotuspsychje> installing kubuntu-desktop..
<lotuspsychje> lets test that
<daftykins> eww KDE
<daftykins> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4938484/ - this sounds interesting
<lotuspsychje> cant be worst then gnome3
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: 6.5 not bad
<lotuspsychje> 850mb install
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> kubuntu doesnt load to desktop after plasma logo
<daftykins> what graphics + driver are you using?
<lotuspsychje>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-72-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 2 x AMD C-60 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (AuthenticAMD) @ 1000MHz ** RAM: Physical: 3,6GiB, 79,0% free ** Disk: Total: 114,0GiB, 28,4% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6290] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB ** Ethernet: Qualcomm
<lotuspsychje> Atheros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet ** Uptime: 5m 12s **
<daftykins> eww AMD HD series
<lotuspsychje> driver=radeon
<daftykins> possible you've ever run KDE before? could have some iffy dot files on your ~, i'd try creating a new user and see how that fares
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: nop, first install :p
<lotuspsychje> and last too :p
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  try installing the amdgpu driver
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> isn't the HD 6xxx series unsupported by that? pretty sure it's dead
<lotuspsychje> gnome and unity working flawless on it?
<lotuspsychje> why would this be a driver thing?
<daftykins> because KDE utilises a lot of 3D crappery
 * BluesKaj shrugs, kwin works fine on elcheapo nvidia ;_0
<daftykins> that's 'cause nvidia driver support doesn't suck, like AMDs does :>
<BluesKaj> it's a real mess
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<BluesKaj> there used to be good support in the early days during kde3 and 4
<daftykins> maybe in the long run AMD's will improve, but that's probably 2+ years out and only on new supported cards, can't say i'm current on the open source AMD driver's progress though
<lotuspsychje> perhaps wayland will bring enlightment to ubuntu's future?
<daftykins> i doubt it
<daftykins> i think that's another massive mess :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-will-run-wayland-default
<lotuspsychje> tadaaa
<lotuspsychje> ok im gonna stick to unity7 as long as i can, and see what happens to the messy future...
<oerheks> oh the future will be fun.
<lotuspsychje> im sure it does
<lotuspsychje> battle of the DE's lol
<oerheks> DE WM DM ..
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> waiting for kde/plsama on wayland, but it looks like it's going to be a while for kubuntu. Installed fedora 25 gnome 3.22 which uses wayland, but gnome is gnome, not my style :/
<lotuspsychje> yeah didnt like gnome either
<lotuspsychje> i was already affraid for..
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: it's really horrible, isn't it? :)
<lotuspsychje> yes...
<lotuspsychje> i dont like a dock hiding, thats for starters
<lotuspsychje> feels sluggish overall
<lotuspsychje> and i dont even thinking of extensions..
<BluesKaj> there's a problem with nvidia support for wayland as well
<lotuspsychje> devs gonna have alot of work here
<BluesKaj> my laptop with fedora 25 on wayland was very smooth with the intel gpu driver
<BluesKaj> so there's hope for ubuntu/gnome
<ducasse> if nvidia did driver support the way intel does, i suspect we would have far fewer visitors to #ubuntu...
<daftykins> intel support? thought that was just 'wait for a new kernel' :>
<BluesKaj> so far my intel support has been excellent for both graphics and audio
<daftykins> seen tonnes of fuck ups on brand new CPUs with integrated graphics myself
<BluesKaj> well I especially like the intel audio driver with alsa, no pulseaudio required unless you plan to stream multiple audio sources simultaneously
<ducasse> the very latest hw often needs a little time to work out the kinks, which isn't that surprising. things get fixed, though.
<daftykins> ja
<Bashing-om> !kde
<ubot5> KDE (http://kde.org) is an open community that creates and maintains software including the Plasma desktop.  To install from Ubuntu: Â« sudo apt-get install  kubuntu-desktop Â», or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE . See  http://kubuntu.org for more information.
<baizon> <3 kde
<Bashing-om> Naw .. user preference ! KDE too much eye candy - too much overhead // KISS - me and my simple mind .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om:  it can be made simpler, that desfault breeze theme tends to dominate everything on the DE, but with a little bit of tweaking in systemsettings ....
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: True ! it is buntu . My intro to ubuntu desktop was (k)ubuntu 9.04 :) .. went to (u)buntu at 10.04 and core install at 12.04 (untiy).
<BluesKaj> ah, LtS user'
<BluesKaj> well 10.04 qnd 12.04
<BluesKaj> bbl
<Bashing-om> well . My "working" installs are LTS - I have 6 installs presently ( when I get around to plugging on my other 2 drives ). Currently I am up on 16.04 (x)ubuntu  - 17.04 in the test bed !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: never had problems using the regular releases as my stable installs, but i always buy hardware specifically to work with linux.
<ducasse> plus i use a relatively narrow selection of software.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Honestly, I have never until this SSD/Nvidia card thing experienced a problem in any ubuntu release that I did not cause myself :)
<Bashing-om> OH no ! that is a lie .. took me a while to figure out the forcedth NIC driver issue !
<Bashing-om> forcedeth*
<ducasse> Bashing-om: that is definitely the most common kind :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'll be heading to bed, got an early appointment tomorrow. have fun :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Not as much fun here when you are not here :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: my presence attracts the 'fun' users/questions ;)
<ducasse> ttyl
<Bashing-om> md5sum
<Bashing-om> !md5sum
<ubot5> To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-20
<Bashing-om> Yall do what yall do best - without me - G nite \o
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ducasse> \o lordievader - everything is well?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> Jup, doing good.
<lordievader> How are things on your end of the line?
<ducasse> a quiet morning, i just sat down a couple of minutes ago :)
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<oerheks> Hello BluesKaj
<ducasse> good morning BluesKaj - all well, i hope?
<BluesKaj> Hi oerheks, ducasse, fine here, and you?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks. soon heading out to run some errands.
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> lets c whats new in ubuntu land
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> everything's broken ;)
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> it sure does, gnome is horrible and plasma doesnt boot, and got system errors on unity now :p
<daftykins> see that's unfortunately the truth i've encountered before, sure you can install another DE... but then you end up with two broken
<baizon> well my plasma is perfect
<baizon> I'm so impressed :)
<baizon> kde runs so much faster/smoother/better
<lotuspsychje> baizon: cant even bypass KDE loading screen here an ati/radeon
<baizon> also got an amd card :)
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> isnt there like a light version of kde anymore?
<baizon> lxqt is the light version :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> yeah i cant suggest lubuntu on my customers machines right
<lotuspsychje> a lil eyecandy would be nice
<baizon> kde to much eyecandy :D
<lotuspsychje> haha
<daftykins> create a new user to test, lotus
<baizon> i had to disable some effects :D
<lotuspsychje> i dont get why they dont make a light version of every DE
<daftykins> see if it's your dot files
<lotuspsychje> wheres gnome classic? unity classic? kde light?
<daftykins> how come you haven't mentioned xfce? :>
<baizon> gnome classic => mate, unity classic => ?, KDE Light => KDE 3 :D
<lotuspsychje> yeah mate is on my list to test
<lotuspsychje> but of course ill test 17.10 with wayland also
<baizon> budgie?
<baizon> unity classic => budgie :D
<baizon> that is really a positive thing, with ubuntu switching to wayland, the development will get better i think
<lotuspsychje> lets hope so
<daftykins> baizon: lol
<daftykins> yes put your stock in vapourware
<lotuspsychje> baizon: i might test both mate & budgie, see what that gives
<oerheks> Artful Aardvark
<oerheks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/
<lotuspsychje> !aardvark
<ubot5> Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark) will be the 27th release of Ubuntu.  It is due to be released in October 2017. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> ohhh
<oerheks> arun did the 1st tweet :-D
<lotuspsychje> nice nice
<oerheks> but genii spammed in -offtopic as first
<lotuspsychje> i presume it will be gnome allready?
<oerheks> make more fun, let's get rid of gnome :-D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Bashing-om> Ok, ready to have fun now :)
<daftykins> \o/ welcome back!
<Bashing-om> thankee daftykins : Anyways is a good way to be here .
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> howdy nacc
<nacc> lotuspsychje: hey!
<lotuspsychje> wb EriC^^
<EriC^^> thx lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic aardvark
<ubot5> 'aardvark' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed, yakkety, yakkety-backports, yakkety-proposed, zesty, zesty-backports
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<brunch875> gn lp
<m_> Xenial, 16.04 LTS. Package python3-selenium DOES NOT INCLUDE webdrivers. Instead, it suggests packages chromedriver and firefoxdriver. Fair enoughâ¦ exceptâ¦ THERE ARE NO SUCH Fâ¦ING PACKAGES IN XENIAL!
<m_> Selenium packaging in Xenial is broken. Really.
<m_> ....sorry, had to vent. When itâs night already, every such obstacle can drive u mad.
<Bashing-om> m_: What does not kill you ----------- :)
<m_> Still, broken packaging is broken packaging.
<nacc> firefoxdriver is in 16.10/17.04 in multiverse
<nacc> and it recommdns chromedriver | phantomjs and the latter is availalbe
<nacc> in universe
<nacc> suggests are not required to be present for packages
<nacc> m_: --^
<m_> Present in 16.10, yes. Present in 16.04 LTS, no.
<nacc> and in 16.04, both are suggests
<nacc> so neither needs to be in the archive nor were they
<nacc> not a bug
<m_> Lack of drivers hampers usability of Selenium greatly.
<nacc> m_: you can probably file a bug for it, but not sure who will SRU those packages back
<m_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-selenium/+bug/1685037 , though I don't have much hopesâ¦
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1685037 in python-selenium (Ubuntu) "In 16.04 the package suggests vital, but non-existent packages chromedriver and firefoxdriver" [Undecided,New]
<m_> This is especially odd for me since AFAIK pip install selenium has firefox drivers bundled.
<daftykins> !info python3-selenium xenial
<ubot5> python3-selenium (source: python-selenium): Python3 bindings for Selenium. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.48.0+dfsg1-2 (xenial), package size 65 kB, installed size 432 kB
<daftykins> no idea how you track down who maintains it (:
<nacc> daftykins: it's a package from debian
<nacc> daftykins: so no one maintains it in ubuntu :)
<nacc> and it's in universe with no delta
<daftykins> what controls the other part being missing, though?
<nacc> so highly unmaintained :)
<nacc> daftykins: when the sync happened
<nacc> it only exists in 16.04+
<nacc> so probably debian added the dependencies (suggests, really), later
<nacc> and they missed the freeze or happened in a different cycle for ubuntu
<daftykins> like supplying half a jigsaw? :)
<nacc> also one is in non-free, which is why it's in multiverse in ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-21
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<ducasse> hi lotus! how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse great here, and you?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: day off, and round2 of the roof here
<ducasse> good, thanks. are they finishing the roof today?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah the second part
<ducasse> and no rain today? :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no, we lucky today is the only sunny one, next week rainy forecast
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: nice weather here too, blue sky and sunny.
<ducasse> plan for the day: pay bills :-/
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> it has to be done, but it's just depressing :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah, much?
<ducasse> not more than i can handle, it's just sad to see so much money disappear so fast :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah, you said norway was expensive, does that count for house rent also?
<lotuspsychje> years ago i recall norway invited foreign ppl to come to live in norway in free houses right?
<ducasse> can't remember that, but housing costs are pretty expensive.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cant you save money by changing provider/water/electricity etc?
<Ben64> what
<Ben64> i wanna move to norway for a free house
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: we saved like 50% on switching internet provider and cheaper gas/electricity
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: don't need to, really :) electricity cost isn't that bad.
<Ben64> my electric bill was $75 last month : /
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: thats rather good right?
<Ben64> it's expensive
<ducasse> housing is cheaper in the us than here, afaik
<Ben64> only going up from here
<Ben64> temps rising
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: another user in #u having problems with ath9k driver on zesty... seems to be common.
<immu> ducasse: hi
<ducasse> \o
<immu> ducasse: how u doing
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<immu> ducasse: good
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah had a few wifi issues lately on zesty on different chipsets
<lotuspsychje> ducasse, Ben64 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2997012/Yours-just-FIVE-PENCE-Norwegian-holiday-home-comes-island-private-beach-stunning-views-need-renovations.html
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 53.0+build6-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 47104 kB, installed size 111977 kB
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: lol
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: that is _remote_ :)
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/petition-kde-plasma-ubuntu-desktop
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: getting materials and equipment to do it up out there is going to cost a fortune in itself
<lotuspsychje> good news for blueskaj
<ducasse> kde as default will probably never happen, i think, but it's not really an issue as long as all the flavors exist
<lotuspsychje> yeah dont think so neither
<lotuspsychje> im getting this after i installed kubuntu-desktop: https://hastebin.com/uxuxitewan.sql
<ducasse> sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-config-telepathy-accounts_4%3a15.12.3-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<lotuspsychje> lemme try
<lotuspsychje> dpkg error
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<daftykins> \o wb
<ducasse> \o
<BluesKaj> Hey daftykins, ducasse
<EriC^^> hey daftykins ducasse BluesKaj
<ducasse> wb EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> thanks ducasse
<EriC^^> :)
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: seen this? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/petition-kde-plasma-ubuntu-desktop
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-mate-desktop
<ubot5> ubuntu-mate-desktop (source: ubuntu-mate-meta): Ubuntu MATE - full desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.154.1 (xenial), package size 3 kB, installed size 16 kB
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Why would they make Ubuntu run KDE? What is the point in having Kubuntu and Ubuntu if they both run the same stuff.
<lordievader> I'd rather see a combination of force than doing the same thing in parallel.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: its working now, and just testing out stuff here
<ducasse> never going to happen, but if it did, kubuntu would just cut the 'k' from the name.
<BluesKaj> don't think it's gonna happen , too many kde haters out there
<BluesKaj> and some of them on the ubuntu council have issues with JR
<ducasse> is he the guy that was fired as lead?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: http://imgur.com/a/Oo1sh
<lordievader> Yeah, he was pretty much bullied away.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps a w1ndows rat infiltrated to make ubuntu ugly
<lotuspsychje> to gain popularity
<BluesKaj> the main perp doesn't seem to be around anymore or hr changed his nick ...wish I could recall it, think I'd recognize it if it was listed
<immu> BluesKaj: how are your adventures going on?
<BluesKaj> pretended he was a nice person , but he plotted against JR and promoted false accusations against him
<BluesKaj> immu:  what adventures?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i didn't follow that thing at all, just read the news that the lead was asked to resign and a lot of people were unhappy about it.
<immu> distro ones BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> well, I'm on Kubuntu 17.04 atm and have Debian Stetch on another partition...tried fedora 25 gnome 3.22on the laptop,  very smooth on default Wayland, but gnome is gnome so I dumped it
<immu> did you try neon kde ? BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> yeah a few months ago, but it wasn't anything special in my estimation
<immu> its based on LTS so nope for me to . blur
<BluesKaj> there's lot of arch type hype around neon, but it didn't do much for me...your experience may be different tho
<immu> BluesKaj:
<immu> what are you thoughts on manjaro kde . BluesKaj
<ducasse> manjaro - "arch done the wrong way"
<immu> ducasse: why so? and what do you use as your prefered distro?
<BluesKaj> immu:  I have opnion about manjaro...haven't tried it
<BluesKaj> no opinion
<ducasse> immu: it's arch set up so the user "shouldn't" need to understand what's going on underneath, which contradicts the entire point of arch
<immu> is kubuntu still a official flavour of Ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> !flavors
<ubot5> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
<immu> i am always gravitated towards ubuntu
<BluesKaj> yeah once you've installed arch via the shell , then you have just an ordinary OS which doesn't really do anything much different than other OSs. it's a competent OS there's no doubt , but after all the work to install it I'm left with the conclusion , ok now what? is that all there is?  :-)
<ducasse> you sort of assemble it piece by piece to do whatever you want it to do :)
<immu> Ok ducasse BluesKaj but as said i am always gravitated towards Ubuntu, no matter distro, it works so well for me
<ducasse> i use ubuntu on everything except my desktop, it works well on pretty much anything
<immu> ducasse:  why not on desktop, because of unity?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-release-date
<ducasse> immu: i need very recent versions of certain packages, and i need to self-build a number of things. i also like knowing exactly how everything is configured.
<immu> brb
<immu> BluesKaj: back
<immu> its so quite in here?
<nicomachus> immu: it's almost always quiet in here
<nicomachus> nautilus tells me I have 322.1 GB free, but my indicator applet in the menu bar only says 299.94GB.... hmmm...
<ducasse> gigabyte vs gibibyte
<nicomachus> huh
<nicomachus> what's a gibibyte
<nicomachus> am I missing a joke?
<ducasse> https://techterms.com/definition/gibibyte
<EriC^^> those terms really sound stupid
<ducasse> 322 gigabyte = 299.88586902603 gibibyte
<nicomachus> what
<nicomachus> the
<nicomachus> actual
<nicomachus> crap
<ducasse> when you buy a disk, the size is actually specified in gibibytes. saves the manufacturers money and makes your disk smaller than what you though you were getting.
<nicomachus> why does my indicator applet use a different unit of measurement than the rest of my machine?
<ducasse> it's silly, but that's how sad things are now.
<EriC^^> they should make 1 unit for it
<EriC^^> SI is bibyte right?
<ducasse> yes, they made that 'the standard'.
<EriC^^> it can get pretty confusing, especially in linux tools
<EriC^^> parted is in GB, df in GiB, etc
<ducasse> "si - because idiots don't know how to multiply by 1024." ;)
<EriC^^> isn't it the opposite?
<EriC^^> 1 kebibyte is 1024bytes , and 1 kilobyte 1000bytes?
<ducasse> _now_, yes, but a kilobyte has been 1024 bytes for all of my life.
<EriC^^> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey EriC^^ :)
<blackflow> Any ideas what's the point of the new ubuntu server installer? What was wrong with the debian text mode installer?
<daftykins> oh they ruined that now too? oh dear
<daftykins> if it's on 17.xx releases then it's moot, LTS all the way
<blackflow> No, but seriously, I thought Unity was lessons learned in the NIH no-no. I guess learning is hard.
<blackflow> was anything wrong with the debian installer?
<daftykins> i suppose only the mandatory DHCP attempt approach grated with me over the years
<blackflow> that's easily fixable
<daftykins> well, changed... fix implies there's a flaw
<daftykins> anywho, not seen what the new take is
<blackflow> here's a preview: http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-Server-New-Install
<daftykins> ta
<daftykins> yep that looks like reinventing the wheel
<tsimonq2> I think it's a poor naming choice.
<tsimonq2> sub-iquity...
<daftykins> heh i wasn't sure if it was a legit name or the guy was claiming it as the inferior version of ubiquity ;D
<tsimonq2> It's apparently legit.
<tsimonq2> I will add that dash whenever I reference it until someone gets the clue. :D
<blackflow> subnihquity :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ Bashing-om Ben64
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> installing different flavors
<lotuspsychje> but nothing suits me :p
<lotuspsychje> gnome,plasma,mate
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Been a good day here in main . active and interesting :)
<EriC^^> :D
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: " nothing suits me ' when all else fails . KISS -> xfce .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: well for me, i like xubuntu but for my customers i need something little more eyecandy and intuitive
<EriC^^> unity
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: KDE for eye candy .. huh ?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes!
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lags to much here on an ssd...
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: SSD here if finally performing well . But I must say it is but marginally faster than a core install on a spinner .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: nice to hear! what did you think solved it?
<Bashing-om> ARA errors . setting nuios raid enabled ( AHCI ) ; system puking all over it's self I will say is the nouveau driver .
<Bashing-om> ATA*
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I have begun to uncross My fingers . system seems stable !
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Only 6 months efforts by all parties concerned !!
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<baizon> well that was a short trip for me :D
<baizon> ... will install kubuntu today :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: was horrible for me :p
<lotuspsychje> baizon: tested gnome,plasma,mate..
<baizon> im on manjaro right now, but i dislike the update-policy
<baizon> there its... when the dev is in the mood to upgrade, hes making it :)
<Ben64> lotuspsychje: hey
<baizon> damn amazon, i have to wait for my new cpu :(
<lotuspsychje> grrr
<Bashing-om> !cve
<lotuspsychje> baizon: out of stock or delivery lags?
<baizon> out of stock
<baizon> 1 month waiting time
<Ben64> what cpu
<baizon> Ben64: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
<Ben64> good, was gonna be disappointed if you got a non-ryzen
<baizon> for only 235â¬
<baizon> :)
<Ben64> ~204.17â¬ here
<lotuspsychje> jesus
<lotuspsychje> they sold out so much or something?
<baizon> i guess
<baizon> ok, im out installing kubuntu 17.04. Wish me luck :D
<EriC^^> the ubuntu server got real slow for me
<EriC^^> it's at 89% , do you think i should just close it and start again? aria2c would continue?
<Ben64> aria2c continues if it can
<Ben64> not all servers support it
<EriC^^> i think it's ubuntu's server, it took forever to load the main page rightnow
<EriC^^> or my connection maybe?
<Ben64> san fran had a big power outage
<Ben64> could be affecting internet stuff
<EriC^^> hmm i tried another d/l to see how it would go, and it opened another terminal d/l the same 89% together
<EriC^^> didn't know it would do that, i wonder if it will work together correctly, the 2 are d/ling simultaneously right now
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> wont take long for wakeup tea now :p
<Bashing-om> can takes no more . G nite \o
<ducasse> hiya lotus :)
<ducasse> just missed bashing-om :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: ping?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> waky waky
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> new server installer - bad news to start the day with :(
<lotuspsychje> aw
<ducasse> whenever canonical decides something is broken and the way to fix it is to make their own, i typically never like the end result :)
<ducasse> well, we'll see i guess. maybe it will support zfs for root.
<DalekSec> So, not upstart better than sysvinit, nor lightdm over gdm, or ubiquity?
<ducasse> upstart was nice, as was lightdm, ubiquity i have no special fondness for. i admit i haven't used it that much, as i always use the images that has the debian installer.
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<ducasse> morning EriC^^, lordievader
<EriC^^> morning ducasse o/
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^, ducasse
<lordievader> How are you both?
<EriC^^> good here, thanks, you?
<ducasse> me fine, thanks :) hope all is well?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :0
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader morning
<EriC^^> i think i screwed up
<EriC^^> one aria2c is showing 99% the others 98%, i dont think it integrated them and kind of multithreaded
<ducasse> EriC^^: oh?
<EriC^^> the last 1% is taking forever, 7mins remaining
<EriC^^> something is wrong with the ubuntu servers or my connection, trying to download 17.04
<DalekSec> ducasse: I think lightdm is pretty nice, would be great if they could move away from the CLA..  Debian's installer can actually have a graphical side, working with squashfs' too.
<EriC^^> i wonder if i can truncate the last part since it multi-downloaded and let it continue
<EriC^^> 10mins remaining, might as well make some coffee in this time :)
<ducasse> DalekSec: yes, i've tried it. lightdm is probably the nicest dm still being maintained, i only wish dm-tool received more attention.
<baizon> wow
<baizon> lotuspsychje: youre right
<lotuspsychje> baizon: horrible?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great lordievader
<lordievader> :)
<baizon> lotuspsychje: its like hell and heaven compared to manjaro
<baizon> all themes are broken
<baizon> software center crashing all the time
<baizon> and im using it for 2 min now
<lotuspsychje> its so scrambled...
<baizon> it feels like an late alpha/early beta
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> unfinished
<ducasse> plasma?
<baizon> very much
<baizon> ducasse: kubuntu
<ducasse> ah.
<baizon> i guess i try another distro then
<lotuspsychje> i think to install 17.10 alpha2 gnome/wayland and heavy bugout every day
<lotuspsychje> lets make gnome rock again lol
<baizon> kde is stable, i had no issues at all on manjaro
<lotuspsychje> we are a community right, we can influence this
<baizon> but on kde everything is broken
<lordievader> baizon: What version of Kubuntu are you running?
<baizon> lordievader: 17.04
<lordievader> Hmm, never had any issue with that version.
<lordievader> Ran nicely on my test box from the release of 16.10 till now.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i tested xenial kubuntu-desktop, same experience as baizon
<lordievader> What kind of issue were you two having?
<lotuspsychje> laggy overal system
<baizon> lordievader: applications crashing, theme broken, login screen broken
<lotuspsychje> first boot black screen
<baizon> and thats 4 min into the system
<lotuspsychje> sluggy working overall..
<lordievader> Hmm... did you voice this in #kubuntu-devel? They might be able to fix these kind of issues.
<lordievader> If they are not aware it will not be fixed (unless they notice it themselves).
<lotuspsychje> if it does those kind of things by default on an ssd...
<lotuspsychje> doesnt sound too good
<lotuspsychje> gnome was a lil bit faster
<lordievader> There is not a baloo going haywire?
<lotuspsychje> but still not like unity speed
<baizon> unity is "to old"
<lotuspsychje> im planning to bug out 17.10 real heavyly..
<lotuspsychje> devs wont sleep anymore
<baizon> i already did with 17.04 :D
<lordievader> I do agree that Kubuntu is slower from, say, a custom Plasma desktop. But that seems to be *Ubuntu policy. Throw as much software on there until it barely runs.
<lotuspsychje> bbl shower
<baizon> ehhh, even the usb creator isnt working
<baizon> now my locale is broken :/
<EriC^^> the md5sum checks out! :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: doing a fresh install?
<EriC^^> ducasse: no just trying it out in a vm :)
<ducasse> right, have fun :)
<ducasse> lordievader: seen this? http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-Server-New-Install
<immu> ducasse: hi, you didn't say which distro are you using?
<lordievader> ducasse: Nope, havent. Wonder why we need a new installer though.
 * lordievader rarely uses installers these days
<ducasse> lordievader: that's what i'm wondering, too. i would assume it would be less effort to just extend the existing debian installer...
<lordievader> For example...
<lordievader> I guess that is a no no in Linux world. Either you fork or you don't do it at all.
<ducasse> and preferably you don't fork either ;)
<lordievader> Yeah, a new wheel is better.
<lordievader> Because this one is square!
<baizon> omfg
<baizon> themes are working perfectly now :)
<baizon> wow, this distro is nice :)
<immu> baizon:  which distro are you using
<baizon> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 â¢ OS: ArchLinux â¢ CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 B55 Processor (800MHz) â¢ Memory: 7.6 GiB Total (6.4 GiB Free) â¢ Storage: 1.3 TB / 2.1 TB (772.9 GB Free) â¢ VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RD790 Host Bridge â¢ Uptime: 12m 33s
<immu> baizon:  thanks how can i do the same
<baizon> immu: https://antergos.com/try-it/
<immu> ducasse: are non-ubuntu related osEs are allowed to be here discussed
<baizon> immu: yes they are
<immu> * This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions about Ubuntu
<immu> so thats why i asked and wondered :)
<ducasse> immu: we're usually not very strict in here :)
<immu> ducasse:  cool ;)
<lordievader> Does that mean it is time to promote Gentoo? :P
<immu> Gentoo are for Legends
<immu> ducasse: how can i get a kernel with BFQ in it ?
<immu> noop deadline [cfq]  are the current present ones
<immu> and when was the switch was made to cfq from deadline
<immu> ducasse:  please enlighten us :)
<lordievader> Wasn't bfq planned for 4.11?
<lordievader> Don't see the option for 4.10.
<lordievader> At least simply grepping for 'bfq' doesn't give results.
<immu> lordievader:  4.12
<lordievader> Ah, 4.12: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=BFQ-Queued-Linux-4.12
<lordievader> Well, the newest release if 4.11-rc7, so I guess you just have to wait ;)
<immu> so we would have to wait for 17.10 to get 4.12
<immu> cat /sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler
<immu> mine is using CFQ, which is strange as earlier it was switched to, Deadline
<lordievader> Not necesarily, there is a kernel ppa. Or you compile your own kernel.
<lordievader> Compiling your own kernel is not supported, but it works fine.
<immu> i had done that long long time ago
<immu> lordievader:  any guide for it
<immu> ubuntu frendly
<lordievader> Back when I still had Ubuntu virtual machines running, they all ran a much newer kernel than the version originally had.
<immu> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/11/bfq-loads-programs-extremely-fast-under-heavy-disk-io-workloads-ubuntu/
<lordievader> immu: A guide for compiling a kernel? It is quite simple. Download the source, configure using 'make menuconfig', build 'make -jX', install 'make install && make modules_install'.
<lordievader> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel
<immu> lordievader: thanks
<lordievader> They seem to build a package for it.
<immu> http://git.kernel.dk/cgit/linux-block/commit/?h=for-next&id=aee69d78dec0ffdf82e35d57c626e80dddc314d5
<immu> check this commit, it highlights the benefits of using a bfq enabled kernel
<lordievader> Interesting charts :)
<immu> i like your IRC nickname lordievader
<lordievader> Hehehe, thanks :)
<immu> https://liquorix.net/#features lordievader you check this one or used
<immu> lordievader:  check and tell me
<lordievader> Nope, never have.
<lordievader> The default kernel suffices for me.
<lordievader> Sure, I optimized it a bit for my system.
<baizon> damn, my system is broken now :(
<baizon> thanks kubuntu :/
<immu> see ya all later
<lordievader> baizon: Broken how?
<lordievader> Doesn't boot?
<baizon> it boots, everything is fine
<baizon> just the damn theme is broken now and i have to reset
<lordievader> The breeze theme?
<baizon> yes
<baizon> task switcher is gone
<lordievader> Is this a new profile?
<baizon> no
<lordievader> Could you check if a new user has the same issues?
<baizon> no, only for me
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<ducasse> re the idiot in #u, he's been doing this for ages now.
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, heh, i was just teasing ikonia about it  :-)
<ducasse> you might remember him as 'dreaman'
<BluesKaj> yeah, vaguely
<ducasse> i don't understand why he's putting so much effort into it, must be a kid with no life :)
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i got a present today, a 1gb wd external drive :)
<ducasse> itb, obviously
<ducasse> 1tb - argh.
<BluesKaj> ok , nice, an enclosed esata to sata/usb drive?
<ducasse> usb3, a wd passport ultra.
<BluesKaj> ok, even nicer :-)
<ducasse> just wiped it and put a filesystem on it, was thinking of using it for backups of /home.
<BluesKaj> the small format size are handy. much lighter and less bulky
<BluesKaj> yup, I have the same on my outboard, just in case
<ducasse> yes, it's nice and small. handy format if i need to take it with me.
<immu> hi all
<immu> ducasse:  hi BluesKaj
<EriC^^> hi immu
<ducasse> \o
<EriC^^> how are you?
<immu> hi EriC^^ i am good how are you all
<EriC^^> i'm good
 * ducasse is p***ed off!
<ducasse> ;)
<EriC^^> haha, why? :D
<ducasse> nvm :)
<EriC^^> ok :)
<immu> hi EriC^^ i am good and how do you express in that manner ducasse
<ducasse> immu: it was just a joke :)
<ducasse> hence the ;)
<EriC^^> where are you from immu ?
<immu> from India, currently residing in UAE
<EriC^^> aha cool
<immu> you all, ducasse BluesKaj EriC^^'
<EriC^^> immu: i'm from lebanon
<immu> ducasse: yeah i got the joke, but in IRC how do you express in such style like you did
<immu> oke cool place
<immu> so whats happening , any fancy news?
<immu> i removed unity eight from my system
<Oerheks> Yay, i am not pregnant :-D
<ducasse> oO
<ducasse> Oerheks: congrats?
<Oerheks> ( if i was, i would be the 1st man on earth, no?)
<immu> Oerheks: if you are she, then its understandable
<EriC^^> stewie got pregnant in an episode of family guy
<EriC^^> it didnt look very fun
<immu> creepy
<Oerheks> Well i am 49 years old, and not wearing a diaper like stewie..
<immu> hmm
<ducasse> Oerheks: otoh you have the benefit of being a living human being. the wrong kind of human being for that to work, but still ;)
<Oerheks> immu, i am living in the Netherlands, btw
<immu> thats also a nice place
<Oerheks> One of the few members here, it has been a long time ago i met the others..
<immu> met any one physically
<ducasse> i'm in norway, and we actually have nice weather today
<Oerheks> immu, not one of these bunch here ..
<ducasse> EriC^^: how are the fish, btw?
 * Oerheks eating a bowl of  yoghurt with proper music > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-8P5Rgdbw
 * Bashing-om still in the morning coffee stage ( as I was real late arising !)
<immu> hmm
<baizon> hmm
<ducasse> mmh?
<EriC^^> ducasse: i flushed them down the toilet a while ago
<ducasse> ah :)
<Mr_0> ducasse, 0/ <- Norway here too
 * Mr_0 needs to make some food bbl , but "hi" anyway :)
<immu> good nite all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-23
<EriC^^> morning all
<ducasse> good morning!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-17-10-artful-aardvark-hits-the-streets-on-october-19-with-gnome-3-26-515060.shtml
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/small-tweak-makes-firefox-linux-run-much-faster
<lotuspsychje> lets c if that speeds up things
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<baizon> hmm i had it enabled once
<baizon> firefox 4x
<baizon> thing went bad then :D
<baizon> crashes and "black window"
<baizon> well lets try it out again :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: still on kde now?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: wont leave kde
<baizon> manjaro it is for me :)
<lotuspsychje> ahar
<baizon> tried arch, but had to configure to much
<baizon> manjaro is like ubuntu, but build on arch
<lotuspsychje> baizon: does it use something like apt to install stuff?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: its using pacman
<lotuspsychje> cool
<baizon> but there is a nice "software-center"
<baizon> its called octopi
<baizon> it also has a nice gui for installing kernels :)
<baizon> https://wiki.manjaro.org/images/thumb/5/5b/Msm-kernels.jpg/375px-Msm-kernels.jpg
<baizon> for "ppa" it has yaourt
<lotuspsychje> baizon: so kde feels more light on manjaro?
<baizon> it doesnt feel light, it feels awesome :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<baizon> havent had 1 problem :)
<lotuspsychje> lemme check main site
<lotuspsychje> looks windows-friendly
<baizon> https://manjaro.org/
<baizon> you can customize it :)
<lotuspsychje> well im gonna stick to ubuntu for its ease...but ill think it tru what flavor..
<baizon> :)
<baizon> i tried kubuntu, but it was terrible
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<baizon> lotuspsychje: you can try neon.kde.org (based on Ubuntu LTS)
<lotuspsychje> wanna stay on official flavor
<baizon> ok :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: probably a wise move :)
<lotuspsychje> first ill install 17.10 alpha2 and bug out gnome extremly
<lotuspsychje> whatever issue ill hit, ill bug lol
<baizon> hehe
<lotuspsychje> i just like the way ubuntu does its repos, and packages cant leave that
<baizon> i just cant handle gnome
<baizon> for me it makes such bad user experience
<ducasse> gnome is horrid :-/
<baizon> its like they're trying to make tablet ui work on desktop
<lotuspsychje> its true..but perhaps it can change with alot of new bad user experiences?
<lotuspsychje> a disformed enlightment lol
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats just hows it feel like
<baizon> gnome should be like budgie or elementary
<lotuspsychje> but they say unity will still be supported officialy in repos too
<baizon> they will, until ubuntu will stick with X11 (not Wayland)
<lotuspsychje> didnt test budgie yet, but that looks nice
<baizon> it like "unity 8"
<baizon> it's*
<lotuspsychje> its a weird situation
<baizon> indeed it it
<lotuspsychje> dont you thinbk its ironic, they wann ditch unity for gnome to have less work..but once users will get bad experiences on ubuntu desktop, they will have so many bugs to solve
<baizon> cant tell
<baizon> ill wait until 17.10
<baizon> when people have to switch from unity to gnome
<baizon> i think more people will switch to derivatives
<lotuspsychje> possibly yeah
<lotuspsychje> such a bad move
<ducasse> well, they don't have to switch to gnome, they just have to switch.
<lotuspsychje> forced switch
<baizon> yeah, and thats why i switch now :)
<baizon> with ryzen i need a 4.10 kernel, but kde on 17.04 is bad, so another distribution it was for me
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys, working
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<immu> BluesKaj: ducasse EriC^^ hi all
<immu> hi
<BluesKaj> hi im
<BluesKaj> immu:
<immu> what are the harms of installing Kubuntu-desktop on Ubuntu-Uniy 17.04
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> EriC^^:  what is the harm of installing KDE on Ubuntu?
<EriC^^> immu: not much, you might need to do a little tweaking of the notifications and stuff so they match
<immu> what do you prefer? KDE or Gnome?>
<EriC^^> other than that if you ever want to remove kde it wont be easy to remove the programs
<EriC^^> neither, i like unity
<immu> like me :)
<immu> so is installing gnome a safer bet
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> desktop environments are clothing, everyone has their favourite colours and styles
<BluesKaj> like clothing actually
<immu> BluesKaj: true, its just about that itch
<immu> BluesKaj: how long have your being a KDE guy on kubuntu?
<BluesKaj> about 12 yrs
<immu> EriC^^: what are your plans once Unity is replaced with Gnome?
<EriC^^> immu: i'll probably keep using it and use the community improved one maybe
<EriC^^> i didnt like gnome or any of the rest that much, im a unity man
<EriC^^> xchat got killed in 16.04 i'm using it still though, probably ill do the same for unity once its nto maintained
<EriC^^> immu: what about you?
<immu> wow, BluesKaj thats a very good commitment
<BluesKaj> well, it's probly because I used windows 3.1  and '95 at work, so KDE looked familair and comfortable to me after discovering it , gnome at the time was too cartooney for me
<immu> what is the level of integration of Kubuntu with Ubuntu base?
<BluesKaj> the DEs are different , but their apps will run on each other's DE's
<BluesKaj> quite a desktop freindly situation
<BluesKaj> friendly even
<BluesKaj> I'm not afraid to mix and match, if one DE's app works better than the default I'll install the one that works
<BluesKaj> for example I prer gparted to kde equivalent
<BluesKaj> prefer
<BluesKaj> hmm, better check the battery in this KB
<immu> brb
<BluesKaj> strange how one battery of 2 is much lower in power than the other after using both in the same device
<BluesKaj> one is at 50% while the other is at 70
<BluesKaj> poor QC
<immu> did any one miss me?
<Bashing-om> immu: Nope, not yet . to be missed one has to make signficant contributoins :)
<immu> Bashing-om: like?
<Bashing-om> Oh .. say what we do here and now .. and what transpires in main .
<immu> oke
<immu> BluesKaj:  do u think kubuntu is the best KDE distro out there?
<Bashing-om> Meanwhile - back on the forum - still slow .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: it's sunday, *everything* is slow today :)
<immu> brb
<immu> BluesKaj: is no one sharing, kubuntu torrent?
<BluesKaj> immu, what do you mean sharing kubuntu torrent?
<immu> i am downloading kubuntu via torrent, and no one is sharing
<BluesKaj> there are other methods, via http, zsync,
<immu> i am downloading via http
<BluesKaj> so maybe no one is seeding atm
<immu> yeah ,saadf
<immu> *.saad
<ducasse> it's well seeded here, where did you get the .torrent?
<BluesKaj> hes using http now , he says
<ducasse> yes, i was just curious, so i tried downloading the torrent here...
<immu> ducasse:  from kubuntu offical torrent link
<BluesKaj> well, calling it a day ..other stuff to do now ...later
<immu> see u on the other side mate
<immu> how di amigos ducasse
<immu> how do i make the fonts look good in kubunut like i see in Ubuntu?
<daftykins> this is not a support channel, go try #kubuntu
<immu> everyone is sleeping their :)
<daftykins> *there - sorry it doesn't change the rules here as per the topic, no support
<daftykins> try the main #ubuntu also
<immu> ok
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-16
<bugzbunny> slidinghorn: Ban the internet
<bugzbunny> slidinghorn: That would prolly be the best way ?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell bionic
<ubot5`> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.0-0ubuntu5 (bionic), package size 675 kB, installed size 7395 kB
<slidinghorn> morning lotuspsychje  :)
<lotuspsychje> hey slidinghorn all ok?
<slidinghorn> yep, just reading & watching vids trying to learn...stuff.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> vacation over here, tomorrow work again..bah
<bugzbunny> slidinghorn: You are trying to do what?
<slidinghorn> lotuspsychje: that sucks :/
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<slidinghorn> morning
<lotuspsychje> hey guys
<LtWorf> hi
<lotuspsychje> hi LtWorf
<lotuspsychje> think he's trolling us
<leftyfb> yep
<JimBuntu> or needs to complete their ID10T form
<lotuspsychje> lol
<guiverc> :)
<pragmaticenigma> troll in support channel in 3... 2... 1...
<pragmaticenigma> guess they can't type fast
<JimBuntu> That's the best kind of trolling, where you get everyone to wait and keep checking back, lol.
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> make those silly volunteers suffer!
<JimBuntu> As if that doesn't happen often enough with non-trolls, people trying to hide that they are using other distros/etc
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... that wasn't my intention... apologies
<pragmaticenigma> u0_a158 was whom I were referring to
<lotuspsychje> we too pragmaticenigma no need to apologize
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, yeah, that's what I figured
<lotuspsychje> joking around a bit :p
<pragmaticenigma> aparently so did the mods
<lotuspsychje> !studio
<ubot5`> UbuntuStudio is a collection of packages for the artist who wishes to use Ubuntu as their Digital Audio Workstation. It contains all the best Audio/Visual components from the Ubuntu repositories. For more info and install instructions, join #ubuntustudio or see http://ubuntustudio.org
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<JimBuntu> Hiya BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey JimBuntu, lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> looks like middle of winter here, then it's going to start raining...what a mess :/
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I know the feeling... I had a bon fire this weekend, it was great... until it started raining, freezing rain that is
<JimBuntu> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !bionic release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3339/
<JimBuntu> P A R T Y !
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5`> Not yet!
<BluesKaj> not for a few days , right ? I heven't checked the release schedule, I just keep updating/upgrading each day :-)
<JimBuntu> 26th last I read
<BluesKaj> already running Bionic
<BluesKaj> ok
<JimBuntu> Final freeze is Thursday, that will be the release candidate
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell bionic
<ubot5`> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.0-0ubuntu5 (bionic), package size 675 kB, installed size 7395 kB
<lotuspsychje> waiting for .1
<kostkon> dat .1 will make all the difference
<kostkon> :P
<JimBuntu> Oh, they got 3.28 already in there.
<BluesKaj> !info plasma-shell bionic
<ubot5`> Package plasma-shell does not exist in bionic
<BluesKaj> heh, that's not true
<BluesKaj> plasmashell -v shows plasmashell 5.12.4
<lotuspsychje> !find plasma
<ubot5`> Found: kde-plasma-desktop, kdeconnect-plasma, kdeplasma-addons-data, libkf5plasma-dev, libkf5plasma5, libkf5plasmaquick5, libplasma-geolocation-interface5, libplasma3, plasma-active-default-settings, plasma-applet-redshift-control (and 460 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=plasma&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<BluesKaj> !info plasmashel
<ubot5`> Package plasmashel does not exist in artful
<BluesKaj> !info plasmashell
<ubot5`> Package plasmashell does not exist in artful
<BluesKaj> !info plasmashell bionic
<TJ-> !info plasma-workspace
<ubot5`> Package plasmashell does not exist in bionic
<ubot5`> plasma-workspace (source: plasma-workspace): Plasma Workspace for KF5. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:5.10.5-0ubuntu1.1 (artful), package size 6959 kB, installed size 33440 kB
<BluesKaj> ok
<lotuspsychje> and plasma-workspace-wayland
<BluesKaj> oh no
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<BluesKaj> no wayland with nvidia
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: bashing-om reported that latest driver on ppa making progress
<BluesKaj> don't think nvidia's wayland efforts amount to much
<lotuspsychje> and look what shows up when i apt-cache search wayland: nvidia-driver-390 - NVIDIA driver metapackage
<BluesKaj> ahh, my driver ...hmmm
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: perhaps you should test it?
<BluesKaj> not yet
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> too much on my plate the next few days
<BluesKaj> besides my old HP is my testbed and it uses the nvidia-340 driver
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> My new pc doesn't have a brand name since my son i built it from scratch
<BluesKaj> and I
<BluesKaj> MSI Z370  has a neat BIOS, like a hybrid UEFI/BIOS , not just a legacy mode, one can use either BIOS or UEFI ..pretty cool
<lotuspsychje> i always liked msi mobo's
<BluesKaj> pretty good for the money
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<BluesKaj> interesting tho, no HDMI port , just VGA, DVI and Display Port
<BluesKaj> glad I have a couple of DVI to HDMI cables
<BluesKaj> since the nvidia gt520 hdmi out doesn't seem to carry the audio signal, but the DVi port does
<JimBuntu> wow, no audio out on that HDMI? That's whacky
<BluesKaj> there's no dedicated  spdif audio out
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, well so it seems so. i tried the hdmi out yesterday on the nvidia card and couldn't get any audio at all to my receiver
<BluesKaj> it's looping out of the tv optical out
<JimBuntu> Did you remember to manually change audio out in the sound settings?
<BluesKaj> yes
<JimBuntu> I always expect HDMI to have audio out, but I noted that one of the HDMI inputs on my TV doesn't seem to accept audio, talk about whacky
<TJ-> some ports may require HDCP
<BluesKaj> pulseaudio pavucontrol (which i despise)  shows the hdmi as unplugged...suppose I could go pure alsa with intel driver, something which I haven't tried yet
<TJ-> sometimes I've noticed there are multiple HDMI/audio devices, and they're not necessarily correctly mapped/linked to the video outputs
<TJ-> I love pavucontrol - it doesn't hide anything from you
<BluesKaj> no kidding TJ- :-)  lets face it linux audio is a mess
<BluesKaj> aamof think i'm going to try pure alsa
<BluesKaj> with the snd-hda-intel driver
<TJ-> that's a step backwards; since ALSA can only allow one process output at a time.
<TJ-> "pactl list sinks" will show all the known output ports
<TJ-> "pactl list cards" will list the devices, the associated profiles and ports
<BluesKaj> bummer , need pulse for webaudio now ..the intel snd-hda driver was sufficient on my other pcs , but without a direct spdif output I'm out of luck going with just asla
<BluesKaj> maybe I'll invest in a decent PCI-E soundcard ...my m-audio is too old to use in the newer pice slots
<BluesKaj> pcie
<lotuspsychje> not sure who talked about python this week, but just saw python2.7 passing by in bionic updates
<lotuspsychje> python2.7 (2.7.15~rc1-1) ...
<lotuspsychje> welcome comoseabien
<lotuspsychje> here you can chat freely about ubuntu likes
<lotuspsychje> bye
<JimBuntu> You may have seen me talking about Python, while I dislike the whitespace method, I do like the language over all
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: ah, wasnt it about versions yes or no in some ubuntu?
<JimBuntu> I recently talked about how I never moved out of 2.7. I guess I am not along either as I still see a lot of new tutorials related to that version.
<JimBuntu> s/along/alone
<lotuspsychje> ah kk
<JimBuntu> I'm very glad to see it's still going to be included.
<lotuspsychje> :)
<ducasse> afternoon, hoomans
<lotuspsychje> that was the purpose of what i wanted :p
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: hey mate how was your day?
<ducasse> eh, quiet. i was watching tv and fell asleep on the sofa :)
<lotuspsychje> nice lazy days :p
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: seen anything good half?
<JimBuntu> Hey ducasse, you need to share your lazy days with the rest of us, don't horde them X-D
<lotuspsychje> we watched den of thieves, and i liked it
<lotuspsychje> think they wanted to copycat HEAT a bit
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: not really, watched a bad horror movie last night - can't even remember the name
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> JimBuntu: there's plenty :)
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: back to work tomorrow?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah but i phoned them already, im gonna end contract
<ducasse> how long do you have to keep working?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: to be discussed togheter, i dont want to give em trouble neither..ill give them time till they find a solution
<lotuspsychje> technically, i could stop now
<lotuspsychje> wb pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> thanks lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hi pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> what'd I miss?
<pragmaticenigma> howdy ducasse
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: nothing much, still slow in main
<lotuspsychje> TJ- found out studio wont be 18.04
<pragmaticenigma> I caught the early stages of that convo
<ducasse> it won't be lts, you mean
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: yeah, I published the comment earlier
<pragmaticenigma> kind of makes sense though... I would think with Audio/Visual you'd want to be working on newer software to keep up with the changing codecs
<TJ-> lack of manpower
<pragmaticenigma> that too
<TJ->  #ubuntu-release.weechatlog:2018-04-12 18:04:50     ErichEickmeyer  infinity, slangasek: The response has been overall in favo
<TJ->                      âr of Ubuntu Studio not being LTS this time around. Unfortunate, but until we can drum-up the manpower, that's kindof where we're at. :/
<pragmaticenigma> I tried Studio when it first spun out... but I haven't looked at it in a long time. not much use for it for software dev
<TJ-> I suppose I should try it in the digitial audio workstation system, which is centered on ardour
<TJ-> that's got a M-Audio Delta 1010 and Evolution uc-33e attached
<lotuspsychje> silence before the bionic storm
<kostkon> waiting for our bionic master to arise
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys tv time
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> my new internet's been delayed til Wed morning, the cable was disconnected 19yrs ago when i cancelled my cable TV in favour of Bell sat service which was a much better deal at the time. There's a cable distrubution box in my front yard on the easement section. This part of the town has the electric, phone and cable lines run underground to all the neighbourhood residences.
<pauljw> ah, the anticipation... :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, I'm disappointed that the modem couldn't be activated today, but patience is needed due the length of time the line's been disconnected
<BluesKaj> I thought this would be the case, and unfortunately I was right
<pauljw> you be flying around the internets before you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious...
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> hey daftykins :)
<daftykins> much like how my clients London apartment phone line had been detached for some time
<daftykins> poor BT engineer had to go in and out multiple times to reattach and test :>
<BluesKaj> and of course the weather is awful here atm, sleet, rain snow mix ..last yr at this time I was BBQing steaks on the patio
<daftykins> would the coax between you and the easement degrade in that time, such that a fresh run would benefit your service?
<daftykins> assuming it's in some kinda ducting up to the house that you could replace easily
<pauljw> that might be worth looking into...
<BluesKaj> daftykins, dunno the day the cable was run to the house  I was at work and my wife told me there workmen digging trench from the box to the side of the house ...assume it's clad with some kind of protective material, but i never asked.
<daftykins> ah well, i'd imagine they do a test of your new service at the end before connecting you in, so any loss might be known if you do what i did and go with the guy xD
<BluesKaj> this was in 1976, and the cable worked fine up until 1999
<daftykins> i saw his speed test out on the road in the cabinet, then saw the speeds didn't drop much once they got into the apartment :>
<BluesKaj> The phone lines that were put in back then still work fine  so i'm assume the cable will too
<BluesKaj> assuming
<daftykins> mmm i dunno how cable services behave, with our tech here being broadband over the phone lines - the slightest oxidised connection can drop your speeds by a handful of megabits
<BluesKaj> the 7mb dsl service approaches 750Kbits/sec here which is the same it's been for almost 20 yrs
<BluesKaj> over the same underground lines
<BluesKaj> the soil here is very sandy so water drains away very quickly since the water table is close to 30 ft before there's any clay
<JimBuntu> The issue with coax is water ingress. I have seen it disconnected at the base of radio towers and drain for many minutes
<JimBuntu> Let's hope the old adage is true... "They used to build things to last."
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> think the cable just needs to be connected to the tap inside the distribution box
<BluesKaj> my neighbour uses the same old cable for his internet, tv and phone bundle from the same company I signed with
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah he left
<ducasse> hi daftykins - painted those windows yet?
<daftykins> newp :)
<daftykins> busy workin' and fighting ants that have broken into my kitchen! :D
<daftykins> how's you today?
<ducasse> i fell asleep on the sofa earlier, so done remarkably little :)
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> EriC^^: \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins o/
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<daftykins> i put some miles in on the bike today to get to some clients, very tiring :>
<EriC^^> haha, cool :D
<daftykins> EriC^^: not bad thanks! just ate and now relaxing with some youtube sub videos :)
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/GPk4Ag86qUE
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> i'm sitting with 6 donuts
<EriC^^> drooling and eating, homer simpson style :D
<daftykins> mmm i'll help you with those! :)
<EriC^^> mcdonalds has a nice offer with them
<EriC^^> 6 for like $5 or something
<EriC^^> the nutella sucks though, i got 2 from yesterday still in the box
<EriC^^> hello diabetes :D
<daftykins> mcdonalds nutella doughnut?
<EriC^^> lol yeah
<daftykins> O_O
<EriC^^> the rest are actually good, i think a company called 'mccafe' makes them
<EriC^^> ah wait
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> must be the mcdonalds cafe or something
<daftykins> :D you might remember we don't have fast food, so i enjoyed trying mcdonalds breakfasts whilst i was in London recently
<daftykins> mmmm tasty
<daftykins> nice coffee too
<EriC^^> ah right
<EriC^^> yeah i love mcdonalds
<EriC^^> i'd love a dunkin donuts donut sugar powdered and blueberry jam in the middle
<ducasse> cool video, i used to have a ps/2 model 80 :)
<daftykins> :)
<kostkon> oh another lgr fan :)
<EriC^^> has anyone tried the airbar? (the bar that makes any screen a touch screen) ?
<EriC^^> https://www.amazon.com/AirBar-Neonode-Touchscreen-Windows-Notebooks/dp/B01N3MHMSF
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> nope, not a fan of touch screen tech though i must admit
<EriC^^> i wanna get one for my grandma
<EriC^^> i had gotten her an i3 lenovo last year i found an awesome deal on, but i think her getting used to a mouse was a little optimistic of me
<kostkon> hmm a bit pricey for being a small plastic bar with an short usb cable attached to it
<EriC^^> i remember i tried teaching her bash scripting when we first got it, wasn't happening
<EriC^^> yeah but a touch screen laptop is like $500+ on any site i could find so it's a good deal, i dont think id be able to use it on ubuntu though, also you cant close the laptop with it installed i guess
<EriC^^> i wonder how well it works though
<kostkon> you can't close it fully yeah. but at least it's magnetised so it's easy to reattach i assume
<EriC^^> hmm some guy is saying it worked on linux mint, nice
<daftykins> hehe scripting might be a bit of a jump from being new to the machine :D
<daftykins> eww Mint
<EriC^^> yeah
<kostkon> from the same guy " don't like touching my screen, so i've been experimenting with different styli and paintbrushes"
<kostkon> why did he even buy it in the first place
<EriC^^> haha
<kostkon> Linux mint users..
<daftykins> :D
<oerheks> i dislike touchscreens too
<daftykins> the distro with no purpose
<oerheks> if the keyboard would be a touchscreen, that would be oke
<EriC^^> there's a tiny box that projects a laser keyboard onto any surface that works as a keyboard
<EriC^^> pretty sick, james bond stuff
<EriC^^> https://www.amazon.com/Projection-Keyboard-Bluetooth-Wireless-Smartphone/dp/B00X54W9FC
<daftykins> ah yeah a friend of mine at Uni said they bought those for the engineers who kept spilling things onto keyboards and damaging them
<oerheks> i have one, for the old palm handheld .. some sort of bluetooth, but exclusive
<oerheks> no way to make it work with windows,mac or linux :-(
<daftykins> :<
<oerheks> it would be used in a clean environment, a nurse would easily wipe the keyboard
<oerheks> incl battery and rubber cap on the powerconnection ... but a mis-buy :-(
<oerheks> kat-in-a-bag, as the dutch say
<daftykins> ah for something which is left unknown?
<daftykins> or remains a mystery
<oerheks> no, i found out it was palm handheld only
<oerheks> i tried to sell it again, but to honest to tell the truth 'will it work on windows?'
<oerheks> :-(
<kostkon> it belongs in a museum :P
<kostkon> hold on to it it's gonna become a museum piece soon
<daftykins> agreed ^ :D
<Bashing-om> \o/ : First thing to test, try "grub-script-check /boot/grub/custom.cfg" (you can add
<Bashing-om>                   a -v to that to get a better idea of where specifically the problem is, if there is a
<Bashing-om>                   syntax error). Please pastebin your custum.cfg though.
<oerheks> tomreyn, just reading back, new0 has 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 502 not upgraded. .. time to start apt-get dist-upgrade?? and i see you work on the backslash mess..
<Bashing-om> Bad bad paste .. bad paste !
<tomreyn> oerheks: :) plenty of those
<tomreyn> yes, thanks for pointing out the missing updates. once the apt errors are gone i'll have him install those. should be ... sooooon
<Bashing-om> \o/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue523 is now hitting the streets !
<oerheks> Remove the corrupted one
<oerheks> sudo rm /etc/apt/sources.list
<oerheks> Open software-properties-gtk
<oerheks> sudo -i software-properties-gtk
<oerheks> This will open software-properties-gtk with no repository selected.
<oerheks> oops
<oerheks> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list.save /etc/apt/sources.list
<tomreyn> oerheks: hmm nice idea there
<oerheks> this .save file is standard
<tomreyn> oerheks: but is the one they have now really corrupt?
<tomreyn> right now i think it'll be fine
<oerheks> i have no clue what caused those trails..
<tomreyn> the trailing slashes on the respositry URLs? me neither. but i guess once they're gone it *should* work, unless the IL mirror is not in good shape
<oerheks> that kernel name points to canonical team ppa kernels, i think too ... https://pastebin.com/3LEy2wp5  https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/7447680
<oerheks> Linux version 3.13.0-53-generic (buildd@phianna)
<daftykins> israel - might be a bad memory but i think we've seen folks have bad repos / be blocked before from there
<tomreyn> there might be naughty proxy foo going on there
<tomreyn> surprisingly there's just one mirror there
<oerheks> .. and 2 days behind
<oerheks> well, i think there are more mirrors.
<tomreyn> and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/mirror.isoc.org.il-archive explains where the trailing slashes come from
<oerheks> nasty .. oke i open a Heineken, because the bottom says i need to drik it today
<oerheks> c/drink
<tomreyn> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors#yui_3_10_3_1_1523918111772_55 lists *1* for .il
<oerheks> i think they do that because you could drink it the same day, and get alcoholic
<tomreyn> makes sense!
<oerheks> but .. buying meat for today, is always cheaper.
<oerheks> 35% off
<oerheks> bad idea, heineken en reboot
<oerheks> i often say: don't drink & sudo ..
<akik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/umit/+bug/1740618
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1740618 in umit (Ubuntu) "Remove gksu from Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<akik> what's the replacement for gksu?
<Bashing-om> pkexe ??
<Bashing-om> Correction : pkexec ??
<akik> with double ?
<akik> can you run any binaries as root with pkexec?
<Bashing-om> akik: Well, when pkexec was 1st inrtiduced .. was a rig-a-mo-tole to have an app with admin privileges .. For instance : http://www.webupd8.org/2015/03/how-to-run-gedit-and-nautilus-as-root.html . One had to at the least create a access rights file .
<akik> i hope they are not taking sudo away too
<Bashing-om> akik: I looked at plexec back then ,, and ran away screamming .. I found that ' sudo -H ' finctioned for all my GUI use cases .. and in 18.04 (xubuntu) still does .
<tomreyn> buenos noches, amig{a,o}s.
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-17
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<ducasse> good morning, people
<JimBuntu> Great Morning ducasse , all is well?
<ducasse> hi JimBuntu! all is well here, thanks, how about you?
<JimBuntu> ducasse, It may be a bit early to tell, but everything seems fine so far. As is usual, a bit cold this early.
<ducasse> well, i can't really tell either, but i'm awake and not crying so i assume things are good.
<JimBuntu> That is a fair measure, awake and not in disorder, thing must be acceptable to some degree X-D
<JimBuntu> Shucks, Harry Anderson ( Night Court ) died last night :-(
<ducasse> unfamiliar to me, i'm afraid
<JimBuntu> ducasse, It was an oddball, late-night U.S. TV Show from the late 1980s. Probably unfamiliar to many
<Ben64> /proc/cpuinfo isn't giving me correct cpu speeds
<Ben64> cpu MHz		: 1116.903
<Ben64> :(
<JimBuntu> Ben64, I think that output could be affected by the governor, what are your ondemand/power settings?
<lotuspsychje> morning JimBuntu ducasse Ben64
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - getting ready for work?
<lotuspsychje> yeah :p
<ducasse> not happy about it? :)
<lotuspsychje> well i told them the news, so im curious what will happen today
<lotuspsychje> im curious how long i will still need to go
<ducasse> they'll just have to start looking for someone, then - hope it doesn't take too long
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah exactly
<JimBuntu> No worries lotuspsychje , we can all pretend to be good candidates... then fail to show up, lol.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i was hoping that already you would travel overseas thousands of miles for me..
<lotuspsychje> after that we can have that 'bionic beaver' houseparty
<ducasse> :)
<TJ-> Shouldn't that be the Bionic Beaver Dam Buster of a party?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: first party, then bug afterparty lol
<JimBuntu> gm lotuspsychje
<JimBuntu> Oh, y'all know about the release party, right?
<JimBuntu> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !bionic release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3339/
<lotuspsychje> 6 guys know :p
<gogeta> lol
<JimBuntu> So few people in that channel... I wanna take it over, unsure of the rules or meaness of the ops
<TJ-> I shall be taking a convenient vacation! all those nvidia/wayland/gnome/netplan/ifupdown/snap/PPA upgrade hell bugs can be someone elses... I'd suggest forwarding them all to SABDFL
<TJ-> JimBuntu: you misunderstand... ubuntu-release-party is for when you're finally released from all bugs!
<JimBuntu> TJ-, lol, all the bugs... that will be a while
<TJ-> JimBuntu: here's how to make your fortune ... for every bug from the list I wrote above, invoice Canonical since most of them are directly caused by incomplete projects
<JimBuntu> lolololololololol. They wouldn't pay.
<JimBuntu> Upgrade bugs? Those don't exist, it's all user error,... all user error X-D
<TJ-> I don't think there's a channel/forum for dealing with snap bugs is there? that's left to the user effectively, to contact each individual snap author? Do we have a way to easily determine when an executable/package is a snap?
<TJ-> With 600+ engineers you'd think Canonical would assign some of those to fix support and bug fixing, not creating them!
<JimBuntu> TJ-, at the rate of attrition, I think you can remove the "+" now... oh wait, now you can probably swap the 6 gor a 5... oh, and now... ;-)
<TJ-> :)
<TJ-> on an unrelated note - I've figured out how to confuse the Huskies. I've just put a single slice of over-ripe bacon on top of a fence post in strong winds... noses in the air but they can't figure out where it's coming from :p
<akik> fixing bugs will get so much more effective with the data collection, right?
<gogeta> akik, lol
<JimBuntu> if Ubuntu could only 1+ their efforts, on a facebook/analytica scale, bigs would be eradicated overnight, right?
<TJ-> akik: Actually yes. Back when we used popcon properly it would reveal trends quickly and focus on bugs followed. It's because a wider audience could quickly see where problems were arising, not just the (few) who were maintaining the problem packages
<TJ-> In the next cycle's 'Chaotic' developer conference I'm going to suggest the primary thrust be not releasing new features but spending the time clearing the masses of bugs. In many cases bug reports are no longer relevant and can be closed/expired, but in others (regressions, feature requests, etc.) it would benefit the entire Ubuntu project to get them fixed
<TJ-> It's got to the point where in many cases it doesn't look like the package maintainers check the bug reports; it's becoming like the wiki pages
<gogeta> TJ-, hahahahah
<gogeta> TJ-, its ubuntu they always chose the worst options they can
<TJ-> It used to be I'd cross paths with other bug-control team members all the time whilst triaging bugs. Now, I feel like I'm in a desert - I never have that happen (either too many bugs, or other bug-control members have given up)
<gogeta> TJ-, well with unity bugs they did give up
<JimBuntu> TJ-, Are there others, I feel like it's only you now, lol. Sorry to laugh really, I know how that must feel. Either way, you are fighting the good fight, we all thank you, albeit without words most of the time.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: no, there are others, but the bug-control team is a Launchpad entity. I don't think most members have ever focused on IRC. I do, because it's like having a pulse on problem areas in real-time. Many users don't want to go to the 'hassle' of reporting a bug to LP but will spend hours on IRC complaining/trying to fix
<JimBuntu> TJ-, end-users complaining on IRC about things they wont report properly, surely you jest ;-D
<TJ-> It's understandable ... many don't have the formal, procedural, mindset required for bug triage
<TJ-> but IRC is a very good way to see the trends
<TJ-> Likewise forums although I stopped focusing there about 7 years ago because of users failing to respond. At least on IRC you know instantly if a user abandons you in mid-investigation
<JimBuntu> TJ-, I am still shocked at the number of people who come to IRC looking for help, after all these years and so many other ways... makes me wanna check out usenet groups again, lol.
<TJ-> Yeah, I used to love NNTP - still do in fact. It's a great 'shared email' type system. lightweight, easy to distribute, etc.
<TJ-> Used to be an ISP was judged on how good it's NNTP relay feeds were
<JimBuntu> those days are gone, sadly.
<TJ-> Might be coming back. The realisation of the detrmental effects of data-horders (Facebook, Google, et al) and the new European GDPR is pushing a lot of organisations into considering different solutions. Like fashion - what comes around, goes around
<JimBuntu> That would be cool. Let IRC make a comeback, wait... no, stay that... I don't want to deal with the masses here. Usenet/newsgroups in general, that's ok.
<TJ-> non real time help is in most cases preferably - time to organise thoughts, test potential solutions - which is what bug reports on LP are supposed to do
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys work
<JimBuntu> lotuspsychje, cya
<lotuspsychje> ,)
<ducasse> ttyl lotuspsychje
<JimBuntu> Agreed, I don't like the "help me now" mentality. I prefer to issue various things to try and await results. Often, I think I spend more time waiting for someone to find the keys, commands than listening to results... geez, that has to be all the time if I am honest
<TJ-> Yes, or users that think they have to interpret or selectively issue the precise commands they're given, but don't tell you - so you end up wondering why results are different to what you'd expect
<TJ-> That's what frustrates me most - something that should take 5 minutes can drag out for hours
<TJ-> I think we should introduce a time-based fee!
<TJ-> "First 15 minutes free, after which Â£1 a minute!"
<TJ-> JimBuntu: do you do much programming?
<JimBuntu> TJ-, about 10% of my professional time, maybe 1% of my off-time any more.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: I'm developing a tool of the LXC suite focusing on automatically creating application containers. It will work by using an strace analyse of the files an executable and it's children access then building an LXC config to match. As part of that it needs to analyse an strace log. I'm planning on have it launch strace itself if necessary too.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: in that case, I can either 1) call out to strace via execve() and run the tool like the user would or 2) embed the same strace functionality via library calls. Can't decide which to use. What would be your vote?
<JimBuntu> us the user would will probably involve less work, library calls will allow for more control, I figure... I would probably go with the option that provides details in a similar fashion to how the user would as it will be the same kind of format when automated as if directly requested later when troubleshooting.
<TJ-> yeah... it's lighter to call out since the package doesn't need additional library dependencies too, but feels a bit unclean/hackish :)
<JimBuntu> TJ-, external exec commands will always feel hackish, lol, but at times they are actually less hackish as they provide exactly what's needed.
<TJ-> yeah. I got stymied in the function where I was adding the execve() call and then got depressed thinking of the extra work required to be a purist and do library calls!
<TJ-> now all I need do it pre-check the strace executable is available and suggest what to do if it isn't :)
<TJ-> Right! time for a Husky run. Thanks for that. Chat later.
<Ben64> JimBuntu: whatever the settings are, i get weird values in frequency
<Ben64> gpu passthrough doesn't seem to work anymore either
<Ben64> wonky bios updates?
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<JimBuntu> g'Morn BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
<BluesKaj> I should know better than to try dealing with admin types ...I seem to forget they aren't home users like me. My mistake on that one.  ;-)
<JimBuntu> You mean that clueless user?
<BluesKaj> yes
 * slidinghorn yawns & frantically searches for coffee
<BluesKaj> 63
<BluesKaj> random
 * BluesKaj empties the coffee pot
<JimBuntu> and Gopal is back.
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu, ??
<JimBuntu> s10gopal in main.
<kostkon> for the 99th time
<slidinghorn> I was wondering what the policy was with that kind of thing
<kostkon> he managed to get his bug report triaged. good job i say
<kostkon> and 'in progress'
<pragmaticenigma> slidinghorn, technically cross posting is limited to the askubuntu and irc channels... However, I saw quite a bit contributed to the bug ticket that I felt it was unnecessary for them to continue plugging it in the channel.
<pragmaticenigma> feel like I'm talking to a wall
<slidinghorn> pragmaticenigma: lol you pretty much are.  I almost wish he'd picked a different distro just to find out it didn't work there either
<slidinghorn> but that's mean...
<pragmaticenigma> it's one of those... if it's not in the documenation... why do you think a newer version is going to suddenly have it... they are probably writing their code in Visual Studio (or Visual Studio Code) and it's "helper" has it because MS compiler offers that function
<slidinghorn> when people "threaten" to use a different distro I'm tempted to post the willy wonka "stop, don't, come back" meme
<pragmaticenigma> In a way... wish there was a wall of shame for those that threaten so we can remember them when they inevitably come back
<slidinghorn> lol
<pragmaticenigma> if for nothing more to remember how rude they were
<pragmaticenigma> sorry... my brain is fogged from a very long (and snowy) weekend
<slidinghorn> No apologies needed here
<pragmaticenigma> I think I'm ready to respond to those questions with, Have you googled this? Have you read the documentation? Have you triaged this on your own in anyway? If not, go do that and then we can help
<pragmaticenigma> but that wouldn't be very nice
<BluesKaj> not every user has acheived googlefoo or eben know how to go about reading documentataion or even heard of launchpad
<slidinghorn> true, but (especially) in that case, it's no reason to be rude to folks trying to help
<BluesKaj> the hi level questions that seem to outnumber the basic new user questions are scaring off the new users IM, and we do want new users.
<BluesKaj> earlier this morning i apologized for a misinterpretation of an admins issue and he couldn'r wait to pounce and start throwing insults..how does that look to or encourage new users?
<slidinghorn> BluesKaj: I don't think admins like that care.  They want *their* issue fixed, and to hell with anyone else
<BluesKaj> slidinghorn, well yeah that's pretty obvious, but I'm disappointed in the ops , because i've been kicked for less attitude than that
<pragmaticenigma> admins are a pain to deal with... I think they read too many BOFH stories and sort of take on that persona
<JimBuntu> That person this morning sure didn't care if you were trying to help them BluesKaj , I think they changed their tone though
<BluesKaj> it's not just him JimBuntu ..Ive sen quite few other cases lately
<BluesKaj> yeah, pragmaticenigma , have you visited the debian chat lately? Now they have some very good examples of BOFHs :-)
<pragmaticenigma> I used to read the stories when I was in college... I thought they were funny, until I caught myself thinking about doing something to a customer at my job as a CSR for an ISP... I had to stop reading
<leftyfb> I LOVED BOFH
<leftyfb> would never do any of the things he did to customers/clients, but man ... I was in tears at work one day reading them for the first time
<JimBuntu> I just finished reading an awesome one... about a totally hip marketing suit
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<JimBuntu> sup lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> just got home from work JimBuntu
<lotuspsychje> you want my headache? lol
<JimBuntu> No thank you, I get enough of my own.
<lotuspsychje> just took 2 pills, now 30min watching trolls
<nacc> fun pills
<lotuspsychje> lol nacc
<lotuspsychje> nacc: yeah got them from JimBuntu those special kinda pills 'bionic beavers'
<pragmaticenigma> you mean that only #ubuntu DOESN'T require registration :-(
<nacc> lotuspsychje: :)
<slidinghorn> pragmaticenigma: yeah that's not very sensical
<JimBuntu> Hey, I thought we were saving these for the release rave?
<lotuspsychje> saving saving...we only have one life :p
<BluesKaj> release dates are an anti climax for us testers :-)
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/what-s-new-in-ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-since-ubuntu-16-04-lts-520726.shtml
<BluesKaj> been running bionic in various stages since november...quite stable now for kde/plasma users
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: seems like we got a bunch of good volunteers in here to take em all this time
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,  indeed :-)
<pragmaticenigma> When does Deluge become the default torrent client?
<lotuspsychje> !info deluge bionic
<ubot5`> deluge (source: deluge): bittorrent client written in Python/PyGTK. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.15-2 (bionic), package size 20 kB, installed size 81 kB
<lotuspsychje> optional
<lotuspsychje> i always use qbittorrent pragmaticenigma
<BluesKaj> yup, qbittorrent is my fav too
<lotuspsychje> with a search function
<pragmaticenigma> I used qbittorrent... but either my management technique or something about the torrents I used kept causing it crash ... and when it crashed it lost all local tracking history. So my Ratio goals would get lost
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: and you got it better in deluge now?
<pragmaticenigma> haven't had any issues that I'm aware of
<BluesKaj> pragmaticenigma, were you using it on private torrent sites?
<pragmaticenigma> what do you mean BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> the sites where you have to register and keep a certain ratio of up loads and downloads in oder to qualify for more
<BluesKaj> like that defunct UK site ," The Box"
<BluesKaj> haven't seen many of those around much anymore tho
<pragmaticenigma> I'm talking distro ISOs... I download distros via torrent, and then contribute to 4 or 5 times the amount I download before I pull the plug
<BluesKaj> ok
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: cool, oerheks also feeds torrents like that not sure wich client his on
<lotuspsychje> think transmission
<pragmaticenigma> What I liked about qbitorrent was it carried the tradition of showing you what segment/block you had downloaded
<BluesKaj> well, I'm officially a "cord cutter" now, cable/sattv are gone from this household. So I'm now watching tv via my attic antenna or on the internet
<pragmaticenigma> I've just gotten so used to the features of deluge, I haven't really considered changing them. Features I desire are watched folders (I wrote my own pythons script to pull and drop .torrent), scheduling and remote management
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, did they get your internet squared away?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: sounds cool, never tested deluge myself
<pragmaticenigma> haven't had cable or sat since 2006. I think I started the trend :-P
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, not til tomorro, and I suspect that old coax cable that was buried in 1976 is faulty..
<pragmaticenigma> i like it, very similar to uTorrent and qBittorrent lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> kk
<pragmaticenigma> BluesKaj, 1976?! cable probably isn't sheiled well enough
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, hopefully they put it in good conduit so they can pull new cable through quick and easy
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, think it might be a month before I have cable internet here...til spring actually arrives
<BluesKaj> looking outside one would swear it's the middle of January today
<lotuspsychje> belgium 25 degrees..what has the world come to
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu, you give cable companies too much credit... they take path of least resistance and least amount of effort
<lotuspsychje> where is that wifi tru light when you need it :p
<BluesKaj> goig to be +13C/55F and sunny on the weekend so there's hope  :-)
<JimBuntu> Yeah, depends on the installer a lot of the time, hopefully you had good ones back then.
<BluesKaj> I wasn't home when it was installed  and wife didn't pay much attention since she was lbusy looking after our youngest who was 3-4  months old
<BluesKaj> I'm old, youngest grandchild is 17
<slidinghorn> pragmaticenigma: I didn't watch it...should we non-chalantly fill the channel?
<pragmaticenigma> Yes, I think that would be wise
<pragmaticenigma> carefully though, we got to stay on topic
<pragmaticenigma> slidinghorn, I haven't watched it either. I assumed that was potentially NSFW and didn't need something to potentially offend others in the office on my screen
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/art/Black-style-740850278
<lotuspsychje> another beaver showing up
<lotuspsychje> grabbin neofetch
<JimBuntu> use neofetch for the MOTD
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/Tz3SJ
<JimBuntu> that was quick
<lotuspsychje> :p im on an ssd
<JimBuntu> Don't ya love the 8 second boot time?
<lotuspsychje> grrr no on this beaver
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: Startup finished in 6.118s (kernel) + 25.987s (userspace) = 32.106s
<lotuspsychje> graphical.target reached after 25.933s in userspace
<JimBuntu> Makes me want to go check my lappy on SSD
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: your also on beaver?
<JimBuntu> I am not
<lotuspsychje> on unity was much faster
<JimBuntu> Yeah, I'm signed in and at my desktop in 8
<lotuspsychje> neat
<JimBuntu> I mean, I don't think it matters much, because I don't really turn off the computers, especially the laptops
<lotuspsychje> yeah then i understand bootup doesnt matter much
<lotuspsychje> but im very paranoia
<JimBuntu> Although, I got tired of waiting for the default status stuff to come up when I ssh in, so I went and stripped down all of the MOTDs
<EriC^^> same here, it's on 24/7
<lotuspsychje> i dont like a machine alive when im afk
<JimBuntu> Uptime: 46 days, 7 hours, 27 mins... and that's probably the most recent boot
<lotuspsychje> wow
<EriC^^> mine gets rebooted sometimes, mostly battery drains in the bathroom
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what are you doing with a laptop in your bathroom :p
<JimBuntu> neofetch defaults are pretty nice, even displays motherboard, hadn't looked closely at that
<JimBuntu> "that's nasty"
<lotuspsychje> me neither JimBuntu
<EriC^^> lol i always take the laptop to the bathroom, i get bored without anything
<lotuspsychje> electronics and bathroom steam dont match well
<EriC^^> i end up sitting there for i dont know how long in the morning
<JimBuntu> this thing is gettin old, GA-Z87X-UD5H
<EriC^^> when i was little i used to take gaming magazines
<lotuspsychje> cool EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> i still buy those sometimes
<lotuspsychje> linux magazine & PCM
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> i'm the same with my RSS feeds for news
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: you mean hooked?
<daftykins> spend too long in the bathroom reading news on the phone :D
<lotuspsychje> i understand reading news, but why in the bathroom?
<lotuspsychje> or you have a waterproof iphone?
<EriC^^> taking dumps is boring
<lotuspsychje> for under the shower lol
<EriC^^> you just sit there waiting
<lotuspsychje> ah the toilet..
<lotuspsychje> a girl from work dropped her iphone in the toilet once
<lotuspsychje> so i asked same question :p
<lotuspsychje> the rice trick fixxed it again
<JimBuntu> If I take my phone into the bathroom, it goes in a ziplock.
<daftykins> xD
<JimBuntu> I have little kids using that bathroom
<lotuspsychje> can a smartphone camera be used as webcam on ubuntu? anyone tested that?
<JimBuntu> I don't think I tried that one before
<daftykins> be a bit wasteful really, i think there are android apps that might permit it
<BluesKaj> suspend shut this pc down and had to use alt+prtscn SUB to boot,  seemed to go into suspend after I turned the power back on. it didn't respond to wakeup from the enter key
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: on beaver?
<BluesKaj> yes
<lotuspsychje> got the same on my desktop BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> ok lotuspsychje, good to know
<lotuspsychje> boot desktop==gdm3==afk==screen off== cant get out
<lotuspsychje> so i have to hard reset and login again
<lotuspsychje> didnt check logs yet on that
<lotuspsychje> on netbook it works
<EriC^^> i was having some suspend issues on the lenovo laptop, newer kernel fixed them
<BluesKaj> I just shut this pc down before going to bed at night , don't see the point of sleep etc .
<BluesKaj> or suspend
<lotuspsychje> i never liked hibernate either
<lotuspsychje> dont use, shutdown why take the risk
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: was that on beaver?
<EriC^^> no 16.04
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you have a help page on hibernate acpi issues?
<BluesKaj> besides it 's a ssd so there's no spinup and moving parts except the fans whcich seldom turn since the cpu has a cooler on it
<EriC^^> nope
<lotuspsychje> we got alot of those in #ubuntu
<EriC^^> yup
<EriC^^> i'll be adding more stuff to it later
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: looks pretty neat already with the red highlighted text
<EriC^^> having some fun with making icons and stuff now
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> ttyl
<BluesKaj> well, time to call it a day...take care
<pragmaticenigma> Is there an op anywhere?
<daftykins> ask in their channel?
<pragmaticenigma> I did... no response
<daftykins> tried the trigger to highlight them all? or check idle status manually
<pragmaticenigma> ??
<pragmaticenigma> the ops trigger in main room... no... don't need to feed the troll any further
<daftykins> no do it in the ops channel.
<oerheks> tomreyn, new0 again :-D
<tomreyn> oerheks: indeed. not for long, though, i'm hungry. ;)
<daftykins> never let a help-ee get in the way of a good meal :D
<tomreyn> :)
<pauljw> hi everyone
<daftykins> wb \o
<pauljw> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - all well today?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, yes, just can't sleep ...spent too much time asleep in my easy chair last night :-)
<BluesKaj> How about you?
<ducasse> got woken up by the cat early today, she was up so nobody else got to sleep
<BluesKaj> demanding your attention eh?
<ducasse> yup, attention and breakfast
<ducasse> had to serve food, and i could get started on my morning
<BluesKaj> gonna be "interesting" day here, cable internet tech is coming to do a "professional installation" read more costs for me. After all this trouble they'd better get it working or I'll be asking for a refund
 * BluesKaj needs more coffee
<ducasse> well, good luck with that!
<JimBuntu> g'morn. Good luck on the cable install BluesKaj. Give Luna some extra love for me ducasse, after all... cats are not people.
<ducasse> hi JimBuntu - i'll do that, thanks :) how's your morning?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu thanks, i'll probly need some luck today :-)
 * BluesKaj heads to the kitchen for more coffee
<JimBuntu> Well ducasse I have started my morning about 1.5 hours ahead of schedule, but it's going well so far. My back is still hurting from a fall over the weekend, but not nearly as much as it was, so that too is a good thing.
<ducasse> JimBuntu: ouch, hope it improves soon! get better!
<JimBuntu> Thanks ducasse, it's getting better, day by day, basically hurt my tail bone and surrounding area. I can't remember the last time I hurt myself like this.
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, I wish you luck then as well, hope your back heals well.
<JimBuntu> Thanks BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> I've had back muscle strains and pulls over the years, so I can sympathize
<BluesKaj> OK, ISP tech came and installed new cable, router working great, speed upt o 104mb DL  and 11.5mb UL ..big diff from running 7mb for the last 17 yrs or so.
<oerheks> nice :-)
<oerheks> Do they give you a refund?
<ducasse> congrats, BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> oerheks, nope they fixed my problem so no refund
<BluesKaj> thanks ducasse :-)
<BluesKaj> the tech guy was a real pro and fast worker, probly a contract guy, paid by the job
<oerheks> those are the best: no coffee and rapid labour
<BluesKaj> now I have to call and cancel the previous ISP service
<ducasse> time to start torrenting? ;)
<JimBuntu> Very glad to hear it BluesKaj, 100+mbps down is great.
<pragmaticenigma> ducasse, with those speed ... going to get in trouble faster (assuming some actions aren't on the up-and-up)
<daftykins> BluesKaj: excellent news :D welcome to the real internet
<ducasse> hey daftykins - painted those windows yet? :)
<daftykins> :( meanie
<daftykins> nope i haven't touched a brush!
<daftykins> i suppose right now would be an ideal time...
<ducasse> nah, there's plenty of time, spring is just getting started :)
<daftykins> there is that, although the sooner i get them done and the scaffold taken away, another one becomes easier to access
<daftykins> although young Mischief may mourn its' loss
<ducasse> the scaffold? i guess it's great for cats to climb,,,
<daftykins> sure is
 * oerheks used to be scaffolder
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, I have no idea what that was supposed to mean
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: your message just now said "#ubuntu+offtopic"
<nacc> that's not the channel name, afaik
<JimBuntu>  News from softpedia: Canonical Needs Your Help to Test GNOME Memory Leak Patches in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS <http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-wants-you-to-test-gnome-memory-leak-patches-in-ubuntu-18-04-lts-520751.shtml>
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, oh
<pragmaticenigma> I had a typo
<pragmaticenigma> !ot
<ubot5`> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please register with NickServ (see /msg ubottu !register) and use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<JimBuntu> nacc, maybe pragmaticenigma was secretly making sure Guest didn't come here
<pragmaticenigma> hyphens are so negative... I was trying to stay positive
<nacc> pragmaticenigma: yeah :)
<daftykins> believe me, that channel is a lot more negative ;)
<pragmaticenigma> probably best I don't go there then
<pragmaticenigma> :-)
<oerheks> your a genious ..
<oerheks> #ubuntu+offtopic - support && offtopic :-D
<pragmaticenigma> yeah! there we go
<SlidingHorn> lol perect
<SlidingHorn> perfect*
<oerheks> i am not sure what will happen, guidelines say single # is an official support room.
<oerheks> .. but you are welcome
<tgm4883> nacc: moving this to -discuss
<nacc> ack
<tgm4883> nacc: so what if it can change between runs of free. That doesn't negate what is required for the program to run
<oerheks> his question is oddly stated indeed
<tgm4883> oerheks: well that's what the page he linked to says
<nacc> tgm4883: let's say you run free and it says you have 512M free
<tgm4883> ok
<nacc> but of your memory 5G is page cache
<nacc> you actually have 5.5 G free
<nacc> if you just discard the page cache
<tgm4883> ok
<nacc> but their page says you can't run their IDE
<tgm4883> Sure, but lets say I have 8GB of RAM. I have a SQL server that requires 4GB of RAM, a webserver that requires 2GB of RAM, and an application that requires 6GB of RAM. My server's going to be unhappy when it tries to run all three of those at the same time
<nacc> *maybe*
<nacc> a) overcommit is common
<nacc> b) 'requiring XX RAM' unless you mlock it is not a requirement
<tgm4883> nacc: ok, but now we're arguing over "this is the minimum the program needs to function" and "this is the configuration we're willing and able to support"
<tgm4883> nacc: Mostly, those stated requirements are probably to cut down on support calls
<nacc> tgm4883: my point was simply, if a website says you need 'XX memory free', it's indeterminate if you actually have that much free for an application to use, unless you drop caches (at least) immediately before checking free
<nacc> as the kernel will rightfully use all of memory for page cache if it can
<tgm4883> nacc: argueably you could take the free column and the cache column and find a relevant enough answer
<nacc> tgm4883: i suppose that's true...
<nacc> tgm4883: which i guess then should be amended in #ubuntu :)
<lotus|Bq> hi
<daftykins> \o
<lotus|Bq> testing from phone
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> alright , vpn back inservice after changing dns servers in the router
<BluesKaj> Montreal Debian and Redhat sponsered DNS , kind of cool reallly :-)
<kostkon> https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/get-your-terminal-ready-to-hack-the-planet-in-off-grid-with-a-new-trailer-confirmed-for-same-day-linux-release.11613
<SlidingHorn> apparently people are spreading FUD in reddit comment threads about the data collection in 18.04.  I'm correcting the record as I see them
<daftykins> what's the new deal, another fiasco like the amazon shopping lenses all over again?
<SlidingHorn> opt-in for upgrades, opt-out for new installs...just basic stuff, version/flavor, mfg info, country, y/n to 3rd party codecs, y/n to download updates during install, etc.
<daftykins> ah reet
<SlidingHorn> There are some folks who obviously have an agenda though, as some of the posts I make get downvoted from time to time
<oerheks> they hear *data* and heartbeat rises 15%
<oerheks> when i read *bloated* i get the feeling they want to share their perfect setup.
<SlidingHorn> exactly.  I just try to answer with facts and sources...nothing opinionated
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-19
<bugzbunny> SlidingHorn: I like to hear about this fud?
<bugzbunny> daftykins: You mean licenses ?
<bugzbunny> 'agenda'
<bugzbunny> You people have a huge echo chamber
<chu> Welcome to the Internet
<bugzbunny> You think that's okay?
<chu> No, but have fun trying to prevent it, or otherwise change it in any meaningful way
<bugzbunny> Freenode is the leader of behavior
<bugzbunny> Thats' primary source to fix the issue
 * daftykins spots a weirdo, walks off
<leftyfb> "you people"
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: who is "you people"?
<bugzbunny> SlidingHorn: daftykins oerheks
<SlidingHorn> what do you want this time?  Why are you still here?
<bugzbunny> I dislike you
<SlidingHorn> well congratulations...get in line
<bugzbunny> Is that it
<bugzbunny> Well, people dislike me too
<bugzbunny> I still dislike you
<SlidingHorn> I dislike people giving people bad information and going off on unrelated tangents, yet I keep your name out of my posts
<SlidingHorn> so what do you want?  why do you deem it necessary to tag me?
<daftykins> goodness me, handbags at dawn, people
<bugzbunny> You mean you comments?
<bugzbunny> So you afraid?
<SlidingHorn> that doesn't even make sense.
<bugzbunny> Sure, for idiot
<daftykins> junior trolls aren't known for grammatical accuracy :)
<pragmaticenigma> trolls in general get off on being a nuisance.. they crave attention and always have to have the last word. even if it is to say they don't have to have the last word
<bugzbunny> For sure when you don't want accountability.. You want to discredit, to announce for the rest room -I do no wrong-
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: can you please just stop? Just stop. Please stop.
<bugzbunny> no
<bugzbunny> Ban me
<SlidingHorn> you heard the man...
<bugzbunny> Ban me
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: shut up
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: you can leave on your own
<leftyfb> just type /part
<bugzbunny> Ban me
<leftyfb> just leave
<bugzbunny> Never
<leftyfb> why
<leftyfb> why do you come here if you don't like anyone and nobody likes you?
<bugzbunny> I have belief that wonât be thrown away like a piece of shitâ¦ That belief is that no matter what, we all treated as equals.
<leftyfb> more garbage
<bugzbunny> That belief, won't scare me away from this room because you punks think, you tougher than me
<bugzbunny> Then ban me
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: as usual, you don't actually listen ... to anyone. I don't have the ability to ban you or you would have been removed a long time ago
<bugzbunny> leftyfb: That's silly when we actually every talk
<bugzbunny> leftyfb: When or what time we ever talk?
<leftyfb> please go away
<bugzbunny> If you using those comments as evidence that you talk to me I never listen
<bugzbunny> The answer is no
<bugzbunny> No
<Ben64> this is so confusing
<nacc> especially if you've /ignore'd one of the conversants
<daftykins> certainly not doing Warner Brothers' rep any good
<daftykins> :)
<Ben64> well, reading the scrollback helped a bit, but none of it makes sense
<daftykins> g'night all :>
<bugzbunny> To clear things up, as long as I am around, we treated as equals. He has my belief
<daftykins> no, you're a loser, grow up
<leftyfb> +1
<bugzbunny> Yes, I see
<bugzbunny> You don't like what I say, I am a loser
<leftyfb> for once, you are correct
<bugzbunny> Don't you read back what you say?
<pragmaticenigma> I like to live in the moment... why worry about the past
<bugzbunny> leftyfb: I never dislike you, you people SlidingHorn daftykins oerheks
<leftyfb> We do not like you. You don't make any sense. You only speak of yourself. You are VERY damaging with your "help" in the other channel. You give people very incorrect advice and make troubleshooting more difficult for the people who actually know what they're doing and are trying to help.
<leftyfb> That clear enough for you?
<bugzbunny> leftyfb: Where am I damaging?
<bugzbunny> Give examples
<leftyfb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
<bugzbunny> Where am I damagine
<bugzbunny> Give examples
<leftyfb> To speak to you is pointless. I will stop now. Please leave.
<bugzbunny> Because you have no proof, it's pointless
<leftyfb> "<bugzbunny> athena_: Yes, the new 18.05 I think, is the new LTS"
<leftyfb> that was easy
<bugzbunny> Is it?
<pragmaticenigma> yes, because the next version of Ubuntu is 18.04 ... which has been posted all over the internet and is even in the topic of the channel that you didn't read, along with the code of conduct that you agree to by participating in Ubuntu's official IRC channels.
<bugzbunny> chu: set the room +r
<bugzbunny> chu: That way prevents me to come back in that room
<chu> Or, you could just exercise self-control and save me the effort of having to deal with you.
<bugzbunny> no
<bugzbunny> chu: NO
<bugzbunny> chu: Ban me, send the message for the rest of room, they be happy
<leftyfb> bugzbunny: don't worry, you'll get your wish
<bugzbunny> No
<bugzbunny> I got kline 10 times
<chu> That's not something to be proud of.
<bugzbunny> 10 times, I am sorry, 100 times
<leftyfb> And yet here you are, continuing with your garbage. Making life more difficult for others
<bugzbunny> Every time, I told freenode staff members my belief
<bugzbunny> That has change
<bugzbunny> s/has/hasn't/
<chu> What a productive way of spending your time.
<bugzbunny> Yes, I will contine to spend money, my time, to continue to pursue what I believe
<bugzbunny> So, I will continue to be here
<bugzbunny> Out of spit 21:42 < leftyfb> quidnunc: sorry, if that's a btrfs thing, I'm not familiar with it
<Ben64> admitting you don't know something is a good thing
<bugzbunny> No, that's damaging for #ubuntu Ben64
<SlidingHorn> So we should follow your example and give wrong advice when we don't know something?
<hggdh> folks, please do not engage
<bugzbunny> I never give wrong advice
<SlidingHorn> then why is he still here?
<leftyfb> LOL
<bugzbunny> Give examples where
<pragmaticenigma> You just gave wrong advice not more than a little bit ago with your Ubuntu 18.05 comment
<bugzbunny> LOL
<bugzbunny> K
<SlidingHorn> or when you told someone that their ISP was slowing them because they werent running Windows https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/04/05/%23ubuntu.html#t07:38
<bugzbunny> 21:18 < bugzbunny> athena_: Yes, the new 18.05 I think, is the new LTS
<bugzbunny> This
<bugzbunny> Is wrong advice?
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... there is no Ubuntu 18.05... it's only been said continuously that the next version is 18.04
<SlidingHorn> "when you don't know the answer, just make something up"
<bugzbunny> I am sorry, I'll make sure to 17.10, oops, 18.05
<bugzbunny> ops 17.05
<pragmaticenigma> still wrong bugzbunny
<bugzbunny> oops 18.85
<bugzbunny> 18.04
<bugzbunny> Got it
<pragmaticenigma> there ya go...
<SlidingHorn> no longer even hiding the fact that they're a troll
<SlidingHorn> I have no idea why he's not fully banned at this point.  I've seen people banned for MUCH less obvious trolling.
<bugzbunny> You complain enough
<bugzbunny> People get banned
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<SlidingHorn> morning lotuspsychje  :)
<lotuspsychje> hey hey
<lotuspsychje> yes gnome-shell in my updates :p
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell bionic
<ubot5`> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.1-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 669 kB, installed size 7390 kB
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lotuspsychje> !info gjs bionic
<ubot5`> gjs (source: gjs): Mozilla-based javascript bindings for the GNOME platform. In component main, is extra. Version 1.52.1-1ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 26 kB, installed size 55 kB
<lotuspsychje> lets reboot :p
<lotuspsychje> lol getting an ubuntu welcome screen
<lotuspsychje> ah its for livepatch
<Kharma> Suggestions for a great CLI based calendar/reminder program, bonus points for colour support.
<lotuspsychje> hey xangua
<xangua> Hello
<lotuspsychje> breakfast
<SlidingHorn> Kharma: have you seen pal?
<SlidingHorn> Kharma: (palcal.sourceforge.net) - available in the repos
<SlidingHorn> (there's apparently a newer version in the repos than the one on that site
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje - how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine mate, how did your day started
<lotuspsychje> 25 degrees here
<ducasse> quiet here, but payday :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> you getting ready for work?
<lotuspsychje> yeah got an hour :p
<ducasse> got visitor coming in a few minutes, got to get ready for that
<lotuspsychje> ah nice ducasse enjoy that
<ducasse> you have fun at work, the weekend is coming soon :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah tnx
<Kharma> SlidingHorn:  Thanks for that! Hadn't heard about it yet!
<lotuspsychje> bbl work time
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1
<guiverc> :) @ pragmaticenigma (2nd privacy policy url on other channel)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<JimBuntu> obvious troll is obvious
<BluesKaj> looks like alright'
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, did you just call out their kink? That's not cool ;-)
<pragmaticenigma> or they don't know how the internet works
<pragmaticenigma> oh no!
<BluesKaj> I need a decent PCI-E soundcard recommendation especially one that has decent SPDIF output specs. Was looking at this https://www.amazon.ca/Asus-Playback-Support-Xonar-DSX/dp/B007TMZ1MY
<SlidingHorn> ha!  I just looked at the backlog to see what y'all were talking about...no kink shaming JimBuntu! :P
<pragmaticenigma> I really wanted to tell them... then maybe you shouldn't look at that stuff if you're affraid of someone figuring it outtttt
<pragmaticenigma> also... in this modern age, if I give my SO acceess to my computers, they get their own account. no sharing
<JimBuntu> SlidingHorn, yeah, it's been an oddly entertaining morning. Busy with loads of quickly answered questions the other day, at least 3 trolls in the 2 channels I frequest the most today.
<pragmaticenigma> BluesKaj, you left AmR|EiSa left hanging
<BluesKaj> I've had a brain fart , cam't remember the method used to install that bcm driver
<leftyfb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<pragmaticenigma> BluesKaj, might want to update them?
<BluesKaj> the kernel-source driver might work for him...guess we'll find out
<pragmaticenigma> Don't know if they know to try it
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb, because their buddies do, and so they thought it was cool and want to do it too
<leftyfb> it's so frustrating
<leftyfb> sorry
<leftyfb> dealing with another guy on another linux help channel on another network that has been refusing to look things up on their own for years
<JimBuntu> leftyfb, please make #ubuntu-paid, lol
<leftyfb> the other guy is getting paid for his ignorance as well
<pragmaticenigma> right?
<SlidingHorn> leftyfb: so this other guy is having y'all do his actual job for him?  :/
<SlidingHorn> oh nevermind, I just saw in the main channel...wow.
<pragmaticenigma> I don't mind helping someone do their job... but when they aren't even willing to use Google and look things up and have some simple background information is just infuriating
<leftyfb> that person has no business setting up this environment for a job
<BluesKaj> obviously it's been a while since I compiled that bcm driver ...hope I'm not getting too old for this stuff
<BluesKaj> but now iguess i have to walk him thru it
<pragmaticenigma> you can do it!
<leftyfb> that cholby has been there quite a bit and trolled under lots of names and ip's
<JimBuntu> So, here's an idea... there should be a thing where when an op iso-kicks you... you wind up in a mock room, there are people talking... but it's actually only copies of conversations from other rooms. The user can talk, but what they say doesn't get mirrored. There could even be a couple bots in there with generic responses to the isolated-user.
<leftyfb> nah, that strive for the response from others
<JimBuntu> We have applied this in radio before, everyone changed frequency, but we were running it through a repeater on the old frequency... so, the person who was trying to harass everyone kept on thinking they were... meanwhile we didn't have to deal with them any more.
<leftyfb> mirroring/bots won't be adequate responses to their trolling
<leftyfb> well, maybe
<leftyfb> if the bots were pretty decent in their responses
<leftyfb> and the mirroring was a lot of traffic
<JimBuntu> Well, it works a bit better in radio, because one of their tactics is simply to try and transmit over-top of you and require less feedback from the talkers. Something to think about though.
<leftyfb> keying over
<leftyfb> you're talking CB radio right?
<leftyfb> I used to be into that for a while
<JimBuntu> Since this is IRC, then instead of totally isolating the user, all iso-kicked users land in the same channel... they can troll each other never knowing if the other is there for being a troll
<JimBuntu> leftyfb, I'm specifically talking about GMRS (the licensed version, no test only a fee), but the same could be done (and was) on HAM. I haven't heard of a CB repeater, but it's totally doable.
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pragmaticenigma> I swear new0 just does this to run us in circles
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> how you guys like the new bionic welcome screen
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know... I haven't seen it :-P
<pragmaticenigma> waiting for release to install it on my spare machine
<lotuspsychje> 2 new windows, one for livepatch/ubuntu one
<lotuspsychje> 1 for ubuntu welcome and send statistics to canonical + help screen
<lotuspsychje> donfluffles: welcome, #ubuntu is only for support matters
<donfluffles> yeah the only live support of ubuntu is hexchat
<donfluffles> well
<donfluffles> i dont know if i should switch to windows or not
<lotuspsychje> donfluffles: your in ubuntu here, we reccomend using ubuntu
<JimBuntu> donfluffles, Are you looking for live support, where you can call someone and get help or have a contract for service?
<donfluffles> no ubuntu seems to complexic for me
<donfluffles> and no jim
<lotuspsychje> donfluffles: complex how?
<JimBuntu> donfluffles, what support avenues other than forums, corporate help site, IRC and YouTube is it that you are looking for then?
<donfluffles> help site
<donfluffles> ..
<JimBuntu> Tried https://help.ubuntu.com/ ?
<donfluffles> JimBuntu, im not searching for support centers i was just mocking
<JimBuntu> Oh, sorry, not paying close attention and though you were looking for other ways to get help like documentation, wiki's tutorials, lol
<donfluffles> wiki is helpful but not always
<JimBuntu> There is also paid support, from a number of companies... I was about to suggest you move to RHES, lel
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu, Ubuntu also has paid support through Canonical (Ubuntu's parent company)
<lotuspsychje> !esm
<ubot5`> Canonical offers paid extended security support for 12.04 through the Ubuntu Advantage program. For more information, see https://ubuntu.com/esm . ESM is not an Ubuntu community offering; please direct questions about it to Canonical directly.
<donfluffles> Richmond Hill Elementary School
<donfluffles> rude
<donfluffles> and disrespectful
<lotuspsychje> ?
<donfluffles> he just called me a kid
<donfluffles> that was a good one though
<donfluffles> nice trick you did there
<nacc> donfluffles: please stop trolling.
<donfluffles> okay then
<JimBuntu> donfluffles, come on over to #ubuntu-offtopic
<lotuspsychje> troolnight yayy
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: there's a user in #ubuntu+1 with kde issue
<nacc> and it's only thursday!
<lotuspsychje> nacc: are you prepared :p
<JimBuntu> Thank goodness it's 4thMonday, I'm ready for Friday
<pragmaticenigma> at least MJCD knows to just leave
<nacc> lotuspsychje: well, on the one hand, my impetus to help is decreasing, as i leave canonical on monday :)
<lotuspsychje> nacc: you serious?
<pragmaticenigma> nacc, oh no
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, although i'll still be around helping as i find time, just less of a priority
<lotuspsychje> nacc: whats you new plan in life then?
<nacc> i'm going to digitalocean's systems performance team (kvm performance)
<nacc> just doing something new
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> nacc: own decide, or a canonical thing?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: my own decision
<lotuspsychje> we hear alot of employees leaving?
<nacc> it seems like it again
<JimBuntu> sweet nacc, I'll be sure to find a way to push a ticket or two your way over at DO
<nacc> JimBuntu: please do! i've not really used it much, tbh, but I'll hopefully be able to help out
<JimBuntu> nacc, I have used it professionally, back when they started as well as personally... we had to move to the normal players... but I still use it for some of my personal stuff.
<lotuspsychje> reboot after update gnome-initial-setup
<nacc> JimBuntu: cool -- so you're on AWS now?
<JimBuntu> AWS and GCP
<nacc> JimBuntu: cool
<ducasse> good localtime(), everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<JimBuntu> heh, Hey there ducasse
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje, JimBuntu - all well today?
<lotuspsychje> yeah great here ducasse
<JimBuntu> 3 more hours to go and I'm still smiling, so yeah, pretty good day so far.
<lotuspsychje> hmm seems like last update did something usefull
<lotuspsychje> apps jump open quicker
<pragmaticenigma> wb lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<pragmaticenigma> yo ducasse
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: lol :p
<lotuspsychje> all fine EriC^^
<EriC^^> :P
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<lotuspsychje> see you another twilight zone
<JimBuntu> nite
<SlidingHorn> pragmaticenigma: that was freudian "customer kernels don't want to leave" xD
<pragmaticenigma> yeah
<pragmaticenigma> been a long day
<pragmaticenigma> it got so quiet all the sudden
<Kharma> Opinions please..Cmus, MOC or mp3blaster?
<oerheks> there is also pytone, sox .. if you like console based players
<oerheks> .. i do not.
<oerheks> i *do* like python, so i would go for pytone :-D
<Kharma> I'm trying to replace most of my day to day GUI programs with console based options :) Not because I have a slow system, just because for whatever reason, I like them. I find them more customizable as I love eye candy.
<daftykins> surely what little customisation there is, is of an alphanumeric type only :P
<Kharma> LoL, so true, since most of the colourization is done using alphanumeric strings lol
<Kharma> Is ALSA better to use vs. Pulse?
<Kharma> Currently I use Pulse, hasn't really played around with ALSA yet, seems fancy
<oerheks> ALSA is the kernel level sound mixer, it manages your sound card directly. ALSA by itself can only handle one application at the time .. PulseAudio is a software mixer, on top of the userland (like you'd run an app). When it runs, it uses Alsa - without dmix
<oerheks> Firefox uses alsa solely
<oerheks> err wrong pulseaudio solely
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-20
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks, very insightful explanation :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<guiverc> morning ducasse - great sleep I hope & ready for your day (& on second++ cup of c..)
<ducasse> hi guiverc - still waking up here but think i'm ok, thanks, how about you?
<guiverc> very good thanks :)
<SlidingHorn> morning ducasse  :)
<ducasse> hi SlidingHorn - how are you today?
<SlidingHorn> Not too bad :)  Yourself?
<ducasse> i'm good, i think :)
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse guiverc SlidingHorn
<guiverc> Morning lotuspsychje - ready for your day I hope, hot coffee in hand :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah just made one :p
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> had a nice day with your visit ducasse
<ducasse> yes, was out shopping last night. getting ready for the weekend? :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah finally :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: any plans for the weekend?
<SlidingHorn> I screwed up my sleep schedule...I think I'm gonna try to have some coffee and stay up
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah birthday cakes & more birthday sat & sun
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: your birthday?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah for me and my dad, but its in may for me, early party
<ducasse> ah, ok. when in may?
<lotuspsychje> 11
<ducasse> i'll try to remember, so we can get you a cake :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<JimBuntu> Happy Friday, April 20th, peeps!
<guiverc> Thanks JimBuntu & Happy Friday to you too.
<BluesKaj> Hi Folks
<JimBuntu> Great morning to you Bluekaj
<JimBuntu> Unsure why I am in a good mood, but I think I'll try to keep it.
<ducasse> hi JimBuntu, keep your good mood, feels better than being grumpy :)
<JimBuntu> Yeah, I think so... I also think that like being grumpy is contagious, being happy can be too... we shall see how that plays out for today.
<guiverc> JimBuntu, sounds good, don't turn on a tv, nor look at a newspaper, just go outside & look at the trees, wildlife etc...  Sip your tea or coffee & enjoy!
<ducasse> ...and stay away from the trolls!
<ducasse> any plans for the weekend, JimBuntu?
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, JimBuntu
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - having fun with the new connection?
<BluesKaj> well, it's what I expected and so far so good , ducasse :-)
<BluesKaj> they tried to block my vpn , but that was easily defeated by changing the DNS settings in the router
<ducasse> blocking your vpn - wth for?
<BluesKaj> dunno, your guess is as good as mine
<BluesKaj> trying preserve bandwidth is my guess
<BluesKaj> a lot of ISPs do that here in NA
<ducasse> wow, weird. sounds more like stuff they do in china.
<BluesKaj> it's a  small attempt to prevent illegal downloads, most computer users with a little bit of knowledge about networking can work around it.
<guiverc> ISPs here in aus started blocking more sites in last few months I noticed, it was to stop illegal downloads the site the directed you to said  (they caught sites unrelated to anything illegal too)
<ducasse> right. they're dns blocking a few torrent sites here, but it doesn't seem like the block lists are actively maintained.
<JimBuntu> Great, so they are basically helping the darknet have more reason and users... good job big brother
<guiverc> my isp doesn't like xubuntu-community-wallpapers  ... 403 [forbidden] for 18.04 just like 17.10 & all back to (i forget when, before 12.04)...   my isp must think they are X rated
<BluesKaj> most of the biggie torrent sites like piratebay, limewire, and rarbg aren't blocked here, the oddtime they get taken down by heavy traffic tho
<JimBuntu> guiverc, I would definitely be sending in bug tickets, possibly on a daily basis for blocking that
<guiverc> yeah I should  (again!) - i haven't sent one in awhile so will...  (its their local mirror only)
<BluesKaj> I just use my own wallpapers
<BluesKaj> or some from thje kde site
<JimBuntu> I normally use my own, but blocking something like xubunu-community-themes seems a little silly to me... if it's only the local mirror, maybe there are other items on the mirror causing it.
<BluesKaj> that is kind ofstrange alright
<guiverc> its the same files each time..  was upgrading 17.10 (ubuntu+xfce+mate+..) to 18.04 which aborted due 403 on files; i've added a non-isp-mirror to bypass for now (do it each install)   http://ftp.iinet.net.au/pub/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/  & try and access xubuntu-community-artwork [403] but others no issue...  i'll send em an email...
<guiverc> I too use my own chosen wallpaper - but I do love looking thru the defaults so I do want em.  (au.archive.ubuntu.com gave me the isp-denied files)
<JimBuntu> So, it's that well known of an issue that the archive maintainers are aware and have a workaround, yeah, it's probably due to other things that resolv to the same IP/etc.
<guiverc> which is probably too complex for the ISP's monkeys to understand & explain to me.... should I still raise a ticket with them?
<guiverc> (them being isp iinet)
<guiverc> or lp or other?
<JimBuntu> I would raise the flag with them, they can decide what to do from there.
<guiverc> will do, thanks JimBuntu
<BluesKaj> trying to setup the vpn proxy in konversation, but looks like it's still buggy
<BluesKaj> brb
<BluesKaj> proxy doesn't work, even with plain old nickserv
<BluesKaj> gonna try one more change
<BluesKaj> Connection to server chat.freenode.net (port 8001) lost: Proxy host not found ....hmm
<pragmaticenigma> bummer... gksudo is no more in 18.04
<leftyfb> I never used it anyway
<leftyfb> sudo worked fine for me
<pragmaticenigma> I do so much via nano when it comes to changing system files... not much use for me either. About all I used it for was launching baobab so I could scan from "/"
<nicomachus> I always got gksudo and gksu confused anyway and felt weird using them.
<daftykins> leftyfb: you're not supposed to use that against GUI apps because it can screw up permissions
<daftykins> however if you are sudo-ing a GUI app in the first place, more often than not, you're doing something wrong :D
<leftyfb> daftykins: I never have a problem
<daftykins> well we saw users with it going wrong loads, so i don't know what to tell you :)
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins, would you have a link to something to help explain the difference? I've always struggled to explain why a person should use gksudo versus just raw sudo
<daftykins> not to hand no, but it's something along the lines of it running the GUI app with your home directory but as root - so the user's ~ files can get permissions changed
<daftykins> been too long since i did support to remember clearly :>
<daftykins> (i don't use any desktop Linux)
 * SlidingHorn gasps
<daftykins> hrmm this intel microcode updates for spectre mitigation thing is becoming a real problem imo
<daftykins> for example, i have an intel sandybridge (second generation) core i5 laptop here from Sony which i repaired when a client spilled a drink over it
<daftykins> 13", dual-core with HT, 8GB DDR3 and a cheap SSD... but it's not going to get a BIOS update at all
<daftykins> mind you this is only a problem for Windows i guess since you guys running a Linux natively can just have the boot-time microcode updated
<daftykins> on another system though, a friend helped me insert the microcode into the BIOS and then i was able to flash the result - meaning it was done for any OS
<daftykins> no BIOS downloads are available for this system, so i will have to have a go at whether i can dump the existing one
<daftykins> there we go, dumped the BIOS fine
<tomreyn> how do you "insert the microcode into the BIOS"? wouldnt this modified bios be rejected because its signature would mismatch?
<tomreyn> or is there just no signature check?
<tomreyn> and how do you do it anyways (how do you find out how to insert the microcode into the firmware image)
<tomreyn> ?
<daftykins> tomreyn: often there is a check yeah, you just use a secret utility switch which ignores that
<daftykins> there are tools out there which can read an image, identify each distinct module, then overwrite an old with a newer
<tomreyn> daftykins: you mean binwalk?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> oh for the tool, i have no idea
<daftykins> highly doubt it's a Linux one though if that's what that is
<tomreyn> daftykins: i'd like to read a how-to on this is there is one. or just one describing how you did it.
<tomreyn> binwalk is linux, yes.
<daftykins> well as i mentioned a friend modded the image for me, so i've got no idea
<daftykins> all i did was dump the existing and then send it to him :)
<tomreyn> oh i see.
<daftykins> if we chat again sometime i'll ask for the forum link again, he definitely linked me - i just didn't bother to learn myself
<daftykins> i don't know why i said no though - i'm sure any tool that can read image files will be capable
<tomreyn> still interesting. i've seen such being done on bios modding forums, but it's always this "i dont explain how i do it because i'm an expert and don't want to share" approach.
<daftykins> haha yeah i know what you mean
<daftykins> in fact when i followed the guide it didn't work because the BIOS vendor had replaced the afudos.exe tool with one that no longer had the special switch for ignoring signatures
<daftykins> had to find a follow-up post which had a link to an alternative which still had it
<tomreyn> was this uefi or legacy bios?
<daftykins> an Asus Q87M-E BIOS which is natively EFI, but with CSM capability
<tomreyn> i see, nice, so a modern one.
<tomreyn> i wonder whether we could come up with firmware manufacturer specific generic instructions for staging uefi firmware updates for installation on next boot.
<daftykins> highly unlikely to be safe
<tomreyn> well if you just stage it and have the firmware check the signature on next boot then i guess it couldbe safe
<tomreyn> either it takes it or leves it be.
<tomreyn> but surely some of those signature checks are not entirely reliable
<daftykins> the tool had to be told to force flash, some people reported that some functions misbehaved afterward
<daftykins> tomreyn: the tool's 'force' option also does a full erase prior, so definitely an all-or-nothing approach :)
<daftykins> chip swaps would be the only way back out of that
<tomreyn> you probably needed to take some extra 'precautions' since the firmware was not validy signed
<daftykins> nah i just went for it :D only Â£8 on ebay to have a guy in the Netherlands ship you a new chip with a version of your choice flashed! :D
<daftykins> or i could have attempted to reflash via hotswapping in another board
<kostkon> https://imgur.com/gallery/0jt6Sr5
<pragmaticenigma> I don't think they put enough we're tracking you items in there
<JimBuntu> If I were Canonical, I would activate the camera every so often... how many people are wearing pants is an important metric.
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> would that package be called BeaverPantSpotter ?
<JimBuntu> daftykins, Well, it would track more than pants.. could probably s/Pant//
<daftykins> i debated typing it as such ;)
<JimBuntu> Gotta keep it friendly. But think off all the new stats... How many Ubuntu users have beards? Now we know thanks to BeaverPantSpotter !
<daftykins> \o/
<JimBuntu> "Nose ring detected,... taking actions "
<pragmaticenigma> tin foil hat detected... uninstall hexchat
<JimBuntu> "Single ear detected, adjusting L-R Stereo balance"
<daftykins> phew :)
<JimBuntu> LOL, "Tin foil hat detected, activating double-VPNs"
<daftykins> first time user, freenode webchat disabled
<JimBuntu> ROFL. At least the #Ubuntu channel
<daftykins> indeed :>
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu, that's when it detects dimly lit room with ham radio in background
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, meanie
<JimBuntu> "Kids playing in background, activating safe browsing"
 * pragmaticenigma is guessing JimBuntu has Ham radio in background with dimly lit room
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, it's a brightly lit room, today... it's sunny out
<pragmaticenigma> Single VPN mode
<pragmaticenigma> :-P
<kostkon> "Retro machine in the background detected installing quake"
<kostkon> SNAP time! https://uappexplorer.com/snap/ubuntu/quake-shareware
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> tomreyn: got the link from my mate - https://www.win-raid.com/t154f16-Tool-Guide-News-quot-UEFI-BIOS-Updater-quot-UBU.html
<daftykins> he's taking a look at whether there is the microcode for my chosen machines BIOS right now - also an Intel ME update
<tomreyn> bah this looks super finnicky
<tomreyn> be glad you have friend who apparently knows his ways around the rough edges
<tomreyn> thanks for the link though
<daftykins> :D np
<daftykins> it's still not without risk, i'd be a bit more nervous doing it to my own personal systems
<daftykins> i was a guinea pig with my little haswell system for him, because Asus have abandoned his motherboard which was quite rude
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-21
<SlidingHorn> Bashing-om: party pooper :P  (kidding)
<Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: Again ?? .. what have I done this time that dims the party light ?
<SlidingHorn> Teasing about the open source driver comment (I try to keep FLOSS whenever I can, so I in most senses agree)
<Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: I take it that the folks that write the upgrade guide know .. revert all to default .. and hit the button :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning Kharma
<lotuspsychje> morning LtWorf
<Kharma> Hey MightyNoob
<MightyNoob> hey Kharma, I'm checking out the link you pasted!
<Kharma> It was a great help for me! I love the command line tutorial! Starts out basic but give it time
<Kharma> MightyNoob: Which IRC program do you use? I use Irssi which is a command-line client. There is also WeeChat but I have tried both and prefur Irssi
<Kharma> Oh I see you use Kiwi, try Irssi if you get a chance. Highly customizable
<MightyNoob> Kharma I use a web interface one, Kiwi :)
<MightyNoob> I just setup my Ubuntu haven't dabbled with it all that much to be honest, I installed it like an hour ago, but im slowly settings things up
<Kharma> I use Kiwi when I am on ChromeOS. I duel-boot ChormeOS and Ubuntu.
<MightyNoob> my everyday tools, saving commands, playing with interface, tweaking it etc :)
<MightyNoob> ah nice! Im running my Ubuntu on a VM on an iMac and it runs much smoother than I expected to be honest
<Kharma> Oh wow. You're quick. Which Ubuntu version are you using?
<MightyNoob> it's pretty snappy for a VM!
<MightyNoob> 16.04 LTS version
<MightyNoob> how about you? which version are you running?
<Kharma> I'm still on 16.04 LTS I'm waiting for the updater in a few days to update to 18.04
<MightyNoob> ah yeah! I heard it's gonna be out soon :)  let's see what new features it brings to the table, Im loving my experience with it so far! how long have you been using/running Ubuntu Kharma?
<Kharma> About 2 months now MightyNoob, I am still so noob to it though.  Linux is like a foriegn language. For past 7 years all I used was Android, no PC. I saved up for months and got my Chromebook in February, about a month later I researched how to use things not native to ChromeOS. Discovered a few ways of running Linux on it, and found duel-booting to be my best option.
<Kharma> Runs very smoothly
<lotuspsychje> Kharma: for lts to lts upgrade we advice to wait till june .1
<MightyNoob> Kharma nice nice! yeap! Linux is a definitely a decent skill to have, it also instills deeper understanding of OSs/ecosystems and then everything else starts making much better sense :)
<Kharma> MightyNoob:  https://github.com/denysdovhan/bash-handbook another refeence for bash. Pretty good too.
<Kharma> MightyNoob:  Yes, I've learned so much I didn't know. I've been using computers/internet for 15 years but on Windows, which taught me nothing lol
<Kharma> lotuspsychje:  June 1 will be when the autoupdater comes out? With version 18.04.01?
<lotuspsychje> Kharma: correct, as this is the LTS 'safe way of upgrading
<lotuspsychje> Kharma: aka: more bugs sorted out, safer for the mass users
<lotuspsychje> Kharma: but for more advanced users, you can upgrade now already and help/experience too
<MightyNoob> Kharma yeah agree with you! :)  I switched from Windows to Mac OS and then got bored with it and didn't like the restrictions it imposes, so I installed Ubuntu to use as a primary OS and learning ground :)
<MightyNoob> running it on a VM has this great advantage of creating "snapshots" in case something goes wrong you can kind of revert back to the old changes, its sort of like a backup but a bit more instant and quicker to go back to
<MightyNoob> I pretty much take a snapshot before doing anything major, when it goes horribly wrong I just revert back to the most recent snapshot, duh! :)
<lotuspsychje> got to run guys, sunny day and party
<lotuspsychje> have a nice day all
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<Kharma> Anybody use MUTT?
<ducasse> yes, a little
<Kharma> Does it work out of the box for things like Gmail?
<ducasse> you need to make a config file
<Kharma> Do I need to install an SMTP server to use my domain email addresses? Email with Linux is a little confussing for me.
<guiverc> hey folks - have a look at #ubuntu - unless i'm wrong; standford is maybe trolling, 17.10 isn't supported, go back to 12 or 14  - or i'm just having an off day
<ducasse> he also told someone the best distro for beginners is gentoo...
<ducasse> Kharma: does it have a mail server already?
<guiverc> i was busy elsewhere so only saw bits - i missed the gentoo
<Kharma> It is a MUA and an MRA.. so I don't think I can send mail with it..from what I gather.. ducasse
<ducasse> guiverc: good morning, btw :) all good today?
<Kharma> without installing aditional software*
<ducasse> Kharma: it needs a mail server
<guiverc> thanks ducasse - good morning to you.  very good thanks, you?
<ducasse> early yet, but seems good so far :)
<guiverc> mra?  mail transfer, user agent - mra?  (motorcycle riders assoc is what that means to me)
<Kharma> Yikes.. so I would need to run a mail server on my local machine? any advice for something lightweight?
<Kharma> Mail Retrieval Agent
<Kharma> And I assume I would set up my domain email mx records to point to the mail server and configure mutt to use it...
<ducasse> Kharma: no, you don't want to run your own mail server. find a company that will host it for you, there are many.
<Kharma> Ahh good.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> good morn \o
<daftykins> how's the connection working out?
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins , it's working great so far, no problems
<daftykins> feeling the need to open a few streaming videos at once to impress yourself? :D
<BluesKaj> nope, haven't bothered with that ...don't see thew point :-)
<daftykins> ah well i could furnish you with a nice video at sunset here on the islands - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pypYaEjlY9g
<BluesKaj> nice
<daftykins> wrong coast, but still nice colours :>
<BluesKaj> which coast is it?
<daftykins> east :)
<BluesKaj> heh, that explains why no sun :-)
<pragmaticenigma> oh no daftykins that video must've killed blues' connection :-(
<oerheks> uh oh
<oerheks> !tell daftykins | go paint your house, lad
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> it's ok i'm out there, i've just done prep, about to crack the paint tins open :)
<Kharma> When using the cp command, leaving off the trailing slash of the source will create the source directory in the destination's directory? Or will it just copy the source files into the destination?
<leftyfb> Kharma: that's VERY easy thing to test for
<daftykins> sounds like support to me
<pragmaticenigma> support? google search sounds more effective
<Kharma> This channel seems so busy, you can say that but not answer a simple question I guess? Why idle in an IRC room if talking is such a chore! Any #ubuntu* room seems such full of veteran snobs and it's sad really considering there are so many people using Linux for the first time lately.
<daftykins> Kharma: read the topic, use the correct channels.
<daftykins> Kharma: i'm not a veteran at all, i just know how to read topics - now straighten your underwear out and grow up
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-22
<Bashing-om> !backbox
<ubot5`> Backbox Linux is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu and is thus not supported in #ubuntu. Please use #backbox on irc.autistici.org or https://forum.backbox.org/ for help with it.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !kylin
<ubot5`> Ubuntu Kylin is a variant of Ubuntu that focuses on Chinese users. It is an official part of Ubuntu. For more information, see http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntukylin
<lotuspsychje> bah
<pragmaticenigma> what are you looking for there lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> all the factoids i try to change and suggest never get fixxed
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: <lotuspsychje> !kylin is please update url 404, add channel tnx
<lotuspsychje> <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Your startup bug. My issue does not seem to be related. My blame log: http://termbin.com/l4zg . super fast, no ?
<lotuspsychje> lets check
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yes thats very quick
<lotuspsychje> not sure why it hangs on my side..
<kostkon> http://bbcsfx.acropolis.org.uk/  search for "computer" and enjoy the background hum..
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I do have something that takes a long time to start the desktop . Not taken the time yet to investigate ... 12 seconds !
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: systemd-analyze critical-chain
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Will see in the AM before I get all fired up :)
<lotuspsychje> okay mate
<pragmaticenigma> ugh... I dislike... just install so-in-so's ppa help in main
<pragmaticenigma> and then they go silent when it doesn't work
<Ben64> yep
<Ben64> dude didn't even listen to the original request either, it doesn't solve the issue
<kostkon> especially that PPA which contains loads of package and can mess up your system. im pretty sure if you run apt-get update apt-get upgrade after adding that PPA it'll update half your packages
<Ben64> yeah those are annoying
<kostkon> that's why i only add official ppas which contain only the project packages usually 1 or 2
<Ben64> i have a few ppas... one for youtube-dl, google chrome, and wine
<kostkon> and now i find myself using snaps whenever i can
<kostkon> yep
<Ben64> made my own ppa but couldn't get it to build properly so it has nothing in it, but i added that one too :D
<pragmaticenigma> I use PPAs after really looking hard at what they provide
<Ben64> https://launchpad.net/~ben64/+archive/ubuntu/virtualization
<Ben64> it's really confusing :(
<kostkon> you'll get it eventually it's not that hard
<Ben64> i can't figure out dependencies
<pragmaticenigma> right now I have the one that provides Nvidia drivers from the Graphics Driver Team at Canonical (repackaged Nvidia drivers with proper Ubuntu configurations)
<kostkon> well it's got one package already
<Ben64> failed to build
<kostkon> pragmaticenigma, that's from canonical should be safe indeed
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, yeah... I got frustated with the propritary bundle in the main repo... was getting wicked tearing on video playback
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, part of it I blame on Unity and compiz... really hate that the "eye candy" affects performance so greatly
<kostkon> you can set it to low-fx now if you want the've added the option
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, I've tried various tweaks, which end up with a finiky experience
<pragmaticenigma> with 18.04 around the corner I'm being optomisitc that Gnome desktop will result in a better experience
<kostkon> lol i wouldn't count on that
<kostkon> gnome shell is even more finicky i believe
<pragmaticenigma> I feel it has a bigger team on it... not just canonical
<pragmaticenigma> It's my opinion that Canonical should have stuck with Gnome Desktop through and through. I know it didn't work well for mobile/touch platforms. It just has more experience behind it I feel
<kostkon> yeah that's true but if you consider the fact that they still haven't managed to fix that major memory leak bug it offers some perspective on the limits and what the gnome team can generally accomplish in the given timeframe whatever this is i don't know how often they churn out major versions
<kostkon> unity is a good DE. and if you actually think about it they've never abandoned gnome
<kostkon> they never finished unity8 and unity7 is gnome based
<Bashing-om> kostkon: Interesting article - fixed the memory leak - maybe : https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/ .
<lotuspsychje> in 18.04 ppa adding will be even more easy i read
<kostkon> Bashing-om, good to hear and let me say.. finally
<Bashing-om> kostkon: +10 -
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, they figured out the memory leak
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, they just don't have an elegant fix yet. They're brute forcing at the moment till
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: yeah i think the gnome guys are happy ubuntu taking over alot og bugs now
<Bashing-om> Note that Gnome gave our Will Cook a pat on the back .
<pragmaticenigma> My thought is that KDE and Gnome are the two mainstays of the community. If there is ever any hope of making Linux + Gnu a chance at becoming the average users option, we need to stick to what we know and what has the largest adoption
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell
<kostkon> pragmaticenigma, theyre doing a lot of gc it seems im ok with it as long as it works decently
<pragmaticenigma> kostkon, the memory leak came from them deleating the root of the tree, instead of finding the root and deleting from its branches back down to root
<lotuspsychje> we got all kinds of flavor lovers and new distro's comming out every day
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje, yes, but nearly every new distro that has had staying power has always choosen Gnome or KDE
<lotuspsychje> true or xubuntu based
<Bashing-om> Well; this flavor lover is going to call an end to this session .. \o
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> bed lover
<lotuspsychje> nite nite Bashing-om we take over from here now
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: type sudo halt
<lotuspsychje> -p
<lotuspsychje> now
<pragmaticenigma> hibernate is more apropos?
<lotuspsychje> :p
<kostkon> or use rtcwake
<pragmaticenigma> think it's also time for me to go to hibernate
<lotuspsychje> sleep well pragmaticenigma
<Bashing-om> hibernate LOL ...laters .
<pragmaticenigma> though I took a 5 hour nap earlier this afternoon which is really messing with my sleep desire now
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: thats a good idea to feel real twilighted
<pragmaticenigma> mm hmm
<lotuspsychje> =p
<lotuspsychje> i rather wakeup too early then in-between-naps
<lotuspsychje> otherwise i feel too zombie
<kostkon> it's lotuspsychje's turn to bail :P
<lotuspsychje> he troll on us :p
<kostkon> :(
<lotuspsychje> !releasenotes
<ubot5`> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) release notes can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes
<kostkon> needs... updating
<lotuspsychje> they gonna have so much work at final release..
<kostkon> in a couple of days
<kostkon> it's gonna be a good release
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> finally big changes :p
<lotuspsychje> did you see the new welcome screen kostkon ?
<kostkon> yeah good stuff
<lotuspsychje> great for the newcommers :p
<lotuspsychje> the livepatch...might skare a bit
<kostkon> i hope so. livepatch a bit technical yeah they should have left it out
<lotuspsychje> sky887: you see if you want, you can!
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: yeah or some enable/disable in options right?
<sky887> yep
<sky887> but the offtopic channel THATs what really boggles me
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, yep in system settings somewhere maybe in software settings or whatever it's called nowadays
<lotuspsychje> sky887: register, identify
<kostkon> !register
<ubot5`> For information on registering your IRC nick, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - For any further help, ask in #freenode.
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: found systemoptions/privacy/send info to canonical
<sky887> NickServ	You are now identified for sky887.
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, it's in there as well?
<sky887> im using Polari, IS THAT A PROBLEM?
<kostkon> or just the send your system info to canonical thingy?
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: yes, aha found it livepatch is in software&sources now
<kostkon> ah
<kostkon> good
<sky887> maybe a BANNED!
<sky887> maybe im*
<sky887> *weeps*
<lotuspsychje> sky887: when joining a channel you should have error in the freenode status window
<lotuspsychje> sky887: cannot join channel because...blabla
<sky887> i cant access the freenode status window
<lotuspsychje> why's that?
<sky887> dunno 'ow rly
<sky887> POLAAARiiiii
<sky887> hehe :)
<lotuspsychje> sky887: your not trolling on us now are you?
<sky887> nope
<kostkon> which channel are we talking about
<lotuspsychje> he wants offtopic
<kostkon> oh
<lotuspsychje> thats registered?
<sky887> what happend?
<sky887> i want it
<lotuspsychje> sky887: about what?
<lotuspsychje> sky887: how about you install hexchat and try again
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<sky887> i really dont know how to see status msgs in Polari, maybe i should use another client - which ones are you using folkz?
<lotuspsychje> sky887: i just suggested one
<sky887> okay
<sky887> ill do that then
<sky887> but then i dont get the popups (or DO i?)
<kostkon> polari? never heard of it
<sky887> 'NOME
<lotuspsychje> sky887: hexchat shows a nice freenode status window yes
<lotuspsychje> sky887: then we will see why you cant join offtopic
<sky887> Key, Ex-Chat it is
<lotuspsychje> !xchat
<ubot5`> xchat and xchat-gnome have not had stable releases in years. xchat was removed from Ubuntu for 16.04. Consider using hexchat instead, which is actively developed and available in 14.04 onwards.
<sky887> Ok
<lotuspsychje> ok
<kostkon> sky887, lol no. hexchat. xchat is obsolete
<sky887> !polari
<sky887> yes ofc ofc i MEANT Hexchat
<kostkon> of course you did
<lotuspsychje> sky887: ok now less talk and action! :p
<sky887> see ya soon!
<sky887> im ON it
<kostkon> where are you going :S
<lotuspsychje> lol
<kostkon> let's hope he rejoins
<lotuspsychje> i specially invited him in discuss :p
<lotuspsychje> its my new system, to avoid ramble in main...here we can take them right kostkon
<kostkon> lol
<lotuspsychje> haha
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje, how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> great here ducasse
<sky887> MADE it!
<lotuspsychje> sky887: we can see it!
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cakes & coffee today :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: have a fun b-day party :)
<lotuspsychje> ty ducasse
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<lotuspsychje> and have a nice day
<guiverc> sky887, re: question in #ubuntu & 18.04 (not really a support issue, why I'm answering here) .. i suspect a few of us already use 18.04; at least on one machine..
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> morning, BluesKaj - all well today?
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse. well i have a cold, but otherwise ok
<BluesKaj> how are you doing?
<ducasse> ooof, hope you get better soon. i'm good thanks, thinking of taking a nap :)
<sky887_> Hi all!
<BluesKaj> thanks ducasse, it'll just have to run it's course...have a good nap...naps are good :-)
<sky887_> :-):-)
<BluesKaj> hi sky887_
<ducasse> there's not much else to do, so thought i'd grab the opportunity
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how are you doing? party finished?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no, we cleaned up now chill till party :p
<lotuspsychje> cakes are here from bakery :p
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: hows your day so far?
<ducasse> cakes! \o/
<ducasse> all quiet here, mate
<lotuspsychje> raspberry PI cake and ananas cake
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://handmadehelen.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Chocolade-frambozen-mousse-taart-2.png
<lotuspsychje> something like this
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> did you have welcome screen on kde on bionic?
<lotuspsychje> just got it after updates on desktop here
<BluesKaj> justthe plymouth "kubuntu" logo
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: how about livepatch screen?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, not that I'm aware
<BluesKaj> i can reboot to have a look
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well actually makes sense, as the welcome screen is gnome related
<BluesKaj> i'll check
<lotuspsychje> so i presume only on ubuntu-desktop
<BluesKaj> nope mjuat the regular K fanciful logo after the login
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> just
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so found out livepatch settings are now in software&sources
<BluesKaj> which one /
<BluesKaj> ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: tab updates
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: 'use canonical livepatch to...
<BluesKaj> ppa?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no, built in from canonical now
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: wait lemme screenshot
<BluesKaj> I use muo -legacy for app references, the new discovery one is awful
<BluesKaj> muon
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: https://imgur.com/a/x5jCf8g
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: that livepatch popup screen also asks to enable/disable send system info the canonical
<BluesKaj> no, don'[t have anything like that here
<BluesKaj> I found the livepatch in the software center , but i prefer to do my  own updates/upgrades min the konsole, kde/plasma does do auto updates with the unattended upgrades app
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> hmm activities button got more cool now
<lotuspsychje> mouse hover show all apps open
 * BluesKaj uses the icons only taskbar for that
<BluesKaj> well icons only task manager
<sky887_> Is 18.04 released?
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5`> Not yet!
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: but you can test/help bug the daily iso in #ubuntu+1
<JimBuntu> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !bionic release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3339/
<sky887_> Ok
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: final release at 26 april
<sky887_> Ok
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: ltsupgrade from xenial, reccomended wait till june 18.04.1
<sky887_> I won't wait :-)
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: your the boss of your system
<sky887_> I'm waiting til it arrives on the ubuntu site
<sky887_> Oh I was mistaken. I do it just by the book
<sky887_> *Scared*
<sky887_> It arrives 26th of April on Ubuntu.com am I right?
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: during the day yes
<JimBuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
<lotuspsychje> nice page that
<lotuspsychje> we should have it on trigger..
<sky887_> Cool :-) lookin forward to it.  I have a pending or der on a new desktop PC as well. I'll install it instead of windowd
<JimBuntu> "Python 2 is no longer installed by default. Python 3 has been updated to 3.6. This is the last LTS release to include Python 2 in main." <-- Me no likey
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TB0X:~$ apt-cache policy python2.7
<lotuspsychje> python2.7:
<lotuspsychje>   GeÃ¯nstalleerd: 2.7.15~rc1-1
<JimBuntu> I remember you mentioned it was installed lotuspsychje , I still don't like the release note. I'll find out for myself if it's in the live system shortly.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<sky887_> Woo hoo it's released!!!!!
<sky887_> *gotcha *
<sky887_> For a sec anyhow
<sky887_> Just being silly. Hehe
<lotuspsychje> we almost believe you wow
<sky887_> Yep for a sec cuz I'm the autorithy on this matter
<sky887_> (NOT)
<sky887_> Hm.. If i download it now. Will it be updated to its final version and beyond automatically?
<lotuspsychje> !final | sky887_ no joke
<ubot5`> sky887_ no joke: If you install a development version of Ubuntu bionic and keep up with package updates, then you will be upgraded to the official release of 18.04 when it comes out. To make sure, type Â« sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade Â» in a terminal.
<sky887_> I might just do that
<sky887_> Ah interesting I'll copy that
<sky887_> I'm on it!
<lotuspsychje> good boy
<lotuspsychje> another soul sold to ubuntu :p
<sky887_> Ah heck yeah!
<sky887_> I'd like to download am iso of the 18.04
<sky887_> Where do I get it?
<lotuspsychje> sky887_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<sky887_> Thanks
<ducasse> what a special little snowflake
<SlidingHorn> lol
<ducasse> i'm guessing he gets to be pretty lonely
<oerheks> i thought i gave the good direction..
<oerheks> maybe one needs to logout/login for a ln to get active?
<oerheks> never really got my hands dirty on that.
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks, no... what they were trying to do was pointless.. moving the files to another folder and symlinking is the same as having the config file in the original place
<pragmaticenigma> it doesn't hide anything
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks, it's my guess... they are up to no good (!warez) and wanted our help in covering their tracks
<ducasse> i can think of a reason, but i'm no longer very inclined to get involved :)
<pragmaticenigma> is curious what ducasse thinks... oh well
<ducasse> if you have an encrypted folder in your home, you might want to keep certain things like keys or config files with passwords etc there
<pragmaticenigma> ducasse, but symlinking there would bypass that, no?
<pragmaticenigma> ducasse, assuming the folder is unlocked
<ducasse> yes, while the folder is unlocked it is just as accessible, but you can easily lock it
<pragmaticenigma> but then the application wouldn't behave as expected since it's lost the ability to find it's config file
<ducasse> true
<ducasse> i'm not saying it's ideal, i'm considering it as a possibility
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, I guess for the paranoid, there is a reason there is tails
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<SlidingHorn> howdy lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there SlidingHorn
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse chill day?
<ducasse> yup, making dinner now
<lotuspsychje> cool bon apetit ducasse
<ducasse> thanks :) how was your party? good cake? :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah it was nice, and bread & sandwiches afterwards
<lotuspsychje> sunny day again here
<oerheks> no more warning for dirty languages :_D
<pragmaticenigma> wha? oerheks
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: cwr swearing
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje, oerheks - I'm not following what you're saying/meaning
<oerheks> besides "I cant remember... " he used not welcome language
<pragmaticenigma> yeah, but I don't follow how the "no more warning"
<lotuspsychje> might mean he got enough of the swearing users :p
<pragmaticenigma> I dunno... my head hurts too much to think further on it
<pragmaticenigma> and the conspiracy topic in main is making it hurt more
<lotuspsychje> what do you mean conspiracy pragmaticenigma ?
<oerheks> oh that steamy guy ?
<lotuspsychje> wauw dconf-editor pretty neat on bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info dconf-editor bionic
<ubot5`> dconf-editor (source: dconf-editor): simple configuration storage system - graphical editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.28.0-1 (bionic), package size 392 kB, installed size 2122 kB
<SlidingHorn> lol oerheks - "you know what?  Fine.  Have at it."
<bugzbunny> Have you people get over being upset me being here?
<oerheks> yes, lets make you an Op
<bugzie> My new nick will bugzie
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> think halcyforn is trolling us
<lotuspsychje> havent seen broadcom issues in a long time myself
<pragmaticenigma> always love it when the troll is fighting against three channel ops
<Bashing-om> UWN: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue626 now out :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<tomreyn> i got a reply today regarding help.ubuntu.com: "Thanks for reporting this - there was a misconfiguration with the cache for this site, now fixed."
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<vitalio> morning
<vitalio> Any news about kernel team meeting outcome ?
<marcoagpinto> Hey
<marcoagpinto> !!!!!!!!!!
<marcoagpinto> the demon is here!
<oerheks> hi marcola
<oerheks> hihi marco + cola
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerheks> hi lordievader
<lordievader> waveform:
<lordievader> ð
<lordievader> (Sorry waveform, wrong autocomplete)
<waveform> np :)
<marcoagpinto> hey
<marcoagpinto> morning
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-16
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Phruis> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey Phruis
<Phruis> hey man
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-17
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: Just because there's a lot of devs in #ubuntu-quality doesn't mean it's an appropriate place for that question.
<lotuspsychje> Eickmeyer: his question is because he's on 20.04 testing aswell
<Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: Per https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/arch-install-scripts (where that script is located) Unit193 is the maintainer.
<Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: That said, looks like it's a Debian sync.
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx
<daftykins> any thoughts on which nvidia graphics driver series work with bionic on the 4.15 stock kernel? specifically the 1050Ti
<daftykins> i haven't confirmed it but have a suspicion the 4xx don't like 4.15
<daftykins> if you've got a standard ubuntu desktop on bionic and you are at a TTY and want to stop and start X, is it gdm or gdm3 now?
<daftykins> i'd check but i don't even have a VM going, just sorta remote helping :D
<ducasse> both are valid
<daftykins> hrmm ok thanks, apparently his /var/log/Xorg.0.log is still working too, which seems against the new methods
<rfm> daftykins, I just systemctl stop graphical.target and then start it again, let the systemd config figure it out...
<daftykins> :) fair enough, thanks
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-18
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<TJ-> we've got a fibre install due on Monday. Spent today dragging a conduit pipe through suspended ceilings and past a darn great I-beam... and me and my apprentice managed to pull down part of the ceiling!
<Ussat> \o/
<oerheks> TJ-, awesome ..  find any hidden treasures?
<tomreyn> sometimes you just have to choose which infrastructure seems more important
<TJ-> ermm... one suspended ceiling tile we didn't know was up there!
<TJ-> He was stood on a platform trying to fight with the pipe bending the wrong way, asked me to lifht him higher ... I did ... and he pushed backwards and we both fell off the platform... he grabbed the suspended ceiling which instantly was no longer suspended :D
<TJ-> Plus side was... we learned how to repair and install suspended ceilings :D
<Ussat> NIce
<daftykins> xD
<jeremy31> Suspended ceilings barely support their own weight
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Bashing-om> The house recognizes lotuspsychje :P
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Main has slowed down - time for another cuppa :D
<lotuspsychje> yeah have a big one next to me
<ducasse> good morning
<CoCo_Kid594> hi all.. came here because I was off topic in ubuntu
<CoCo_Kid594> looking for someone using a hercules mainframe and ubuntu..
<ducasse> CoCo_Kid594: better try #ubuntu-server
