#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-05
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:rob^] : Why is there no topic here?
<rob^> oh
<daeb> Helo
<daeb> !=
<daeb> llmanulll hi !
<daeb> nobody r
<klepas> anyone home?
<daeb> Me
<daeb> :)
<daeb> ...
<daeb> klepas ?
<klepas> yep
<klepas> How's it going?
<daeb> fine.. and u ?
<daeb> liltle streesy
<daeb> :)
<klepas> little streesy will ease down for me now
<klepas> stress would describe my last week and a half :-)
<daeb> would say stress...
<daeb> :)
<daeb> it's my turn this week
<daeb> :x
<klepas> do you know what's happened to the ubuntu art community?
<daeb> Completly desintegrated by Pluto's Alien i think...
<daeb> I'm looking for them
<daeb> disapeared ?
<daeb> pff
<daeb> need some words or infos i can only fiund here
<klepas> I'm trying to join them...
<daeb> but no one answer...
<daeb> keep on trying...
<daeb> :)
<klepas> hehe
<daeb> mmake somth like 2 days i try
<daeb> :)
<klepas> I'll ask over the mailing list or something
<daeb> i contacted lllmanulll he is smtime here
<klepas> I want to give the splash screen go :-)
<klepas> for breezy
<klepas> got a site or somesuch?
<daeb> erf
<daeb> splash screen...
<daeb> it's fashoin
<daeb> it's fashion
<daeb> :)
<klepas> yep
<klepas> got a page of them
<daeb> DIdi you look too the Ubuntu community pages ?
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
<klepas> as in the wiki - yep
<daeb> U know there is a lot of work for icons or wallpapers too...
<daeb> ok
<klepas> wallpapers and splash screens are my favourite
<daeb> and did you go to the launchpad for subscription ?
<daeb> kie
<daeb> icons suxx ? lol
<daeb> very nice banneer :)
<klepas> yep
<daeb> compliments
<klepas> have been to launchpad
<klepas> thanks
<daeb> wanna see mine ?
<klepas> sure :-)
<daeb> so wait for mails llisted
<daeb> Gimp splash is very beautiful
<daeb> good concepts !!!
<daeb> what is AMAROK ?
<daeb> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/555/imgs/wallpaper/wallpaper_fresh_linux.jpg
<klepas> amarok is the flashiest media player
<daeb> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/555/imgs/wallpaper/xenoscape_l.jpg
<daeb> Ahh i thought it was a media Os
<klepas> for KDE
<daeb> :(
<daeb> Okie i see
<klepas> but demands a lot of cpu
<klepas> I don't use it m'self
<daeb> i'm dl by bittorent the last ubuntu.. it's very long pff
<klepas> however cool for showing off
<daeb> okie see
<klepas> cool wallpapers
<daeb> you liie ? It's very old anyway
<daeb> i'vce got some better but published for the moment
<klepas> I liked the xenoscape one
<daeb> thx
<daeb> take take take :)
<daeb> and distributed
<klepas> I've got dinner
<daeb> and distribute !
<klepas> lol
<klepas> :-)
<daeb> eat well :)
<klepas> yup
<klepas> cheers
<klepas> :-)
<daeb> bone app'
<daeb> :)
<ogra> hey volvoguy 
<volvoguy> howdy.
<volvoguy> what's up?
<ogra> you had a question the other day ? 
<volvoguy> oh yeah. i just couldn't remember if you were a Canonical person or not. 
<ogra> i am...
<volvoguy> our lack of server is getting pretty silly at this point. 
<volvoguy> the last i heard, jeff waugh was looking into the art.gnome.org code for us to use. that was at least a few weeks ago. 
<ogra> i cant do much about that.. you must contact elmo... but he's very busy and not very responsive currently...
<volvoguy> hmm... i don't even know that name yet. 
<ogra> who cared for the server stuff until now ? 
<ogra> hmm... AndyFitz promised me a fresh icon tarball.... nothing in my mail yet
<volvoguy> nobody. that's kinda the problem. about a month ago, jane siber said our hardware was ready and asked what we wanted on it. we (andy and i) asked for the art.gnome.org code and CVS/subversion. i haven't heard anything since. 
<volvoguy> andy's on yahoo messenger right now if you want to bug him. :o)
<ogra> hmm, if the HW is ready, its rather a hno73 issue...
<volvoguy> i'll try jane one more time since she seems to be my point of contact. maybe she can poke somebody into getting things done. 
<ogra> i'm just trying to get hno over here
<volvoguy> we were hoping to have our own art site up and running and be able to pick and choose artwork to promote for breezy. now we're less than a month away from breezy's deadline and the icons are the only thing we have to work with. :-\
<ogra> he's on the phone... 
<ogra> i think he'll com here soon..
<volvoguy> ok. i can hang out a few more minutes. just took a bunch of pain meds, so i'll be asleep soon. 
<ogra> oki
<volvoguy> want me to ask andrew about a fresh icon tarball? 
<ogra> hi hno73 
<volvoguy> howdy hno73!
<ogra> the art team has some questions about their server :)
<ogra> thanks for coming btw
<volvoguy> even a status report would be nice. :)
<ogra> volvoguy, i can ask Andy myself, no need to rush...
<volvoguy> ogra, ok. 
* hno73 is still on the phone
<volvoguy> hno73, so you know what's going on... Jane Siber told me a few weeks ago that our hardware was ready. The last I heard, Jeff W. was looking into using the art.gnome.org website as a starting point for ours (so apache, database, maybe php), and we're also in need of a versioning system. andrew and jeff know more about that than i do though. 
<volvoguy> hno73, no rush. i'll be around for a few minutes. :) thanks. 
<volvoguy> ogra, if i fall asleep, you know as much as i do now. :) andrew probably has a bit more insight as well. 
<volvoguy> oh thank you. i have toothpicks propping my eyelids open. :)
<hno73> uhm, do you guys read the art mailing list? ;)
<volvoguy> yep.
<hno73> I have a server set up and the site is nearly done. see: http://69.60.114.112/
<hno73> It's a different server from the one Jane and Jeff were talking about
<hno73> This one is not in our own data centre
<ogra> but looks great already
<volvoguy> cool. i don't remember any emails about it, but i'm glad to see it's getting done!
<hno73> It's an external box, which means we can be a bit more relaxed about security
<hno73> My plan is to have it completely done and launched by Friday
<volvoguy> sounds good. i don't know if the art.gnome.org guys have any kind of admin interface, but andrew, myself and probably ogra should probably have some kinda access to it. 
<volvoguy> excellent!
<hno73> I have one show-stopping problem though. See: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/artweb-list/2005-August/msg00012.html
<hno73> volvoguy: yeah, email me and I'll give you access
<volvoguy> hno73, ok. will do. 
<hno73> any MySQL/PHP experts here? :)
<hno73> I can give you guys accounts on the server itself to, for putting up static pages or whatever
<AndyFitz> hno73,  not an expert .  but I can grok a good drupal  lol
<volvoguy> some PHP. i'm not conscious enough to look at the source right now though. (up all night and just took pain meds). i'll be back home and awake in 6-8 hour.
<hno73> OK, so basically the site works for uploading  now, just not for 'promoting' stuff to be visible on the site
<hno73> First one to figure it out gets a star :)
<volvoguy> do you mean automatically promoting it, or can't you get them to display at all (manually)?
<hno73> volvoguy: I cant get it to display at all ATM
<volvoguy> ok
<hno73> It's probably trivial though ...
<hno73> once I find it
<volvoguy> i'll be having dinner with a mysql/php expert before friday, so when i have access to it i'll pick his brain a bit. :)
<hno73> just register on the site and I'll make you admin so you can play around
<volvoguy> ok
<hno73> hopefully the gnome art people will just answer my post
<hno73> that would be the easiest :)
<volvoguy> i'm registered. 
<volvoguy> have you tried their IRC channel? 
<volvoguy> they seemed to be pleased that we wanted to use some of their stuff. 
<hno73> thanks, I'll try that
<hno73> OK, I've promoted you
<volvoguy> i think they are #gnome-art on irc.gnome.org
<volvoguy> cool.
<AndyFitz> irc.gimp.org
<hno73> got to URL/admin
<volvoguy> ahh. thanks AndyFitz. 
<hno73> AndyFitz: will you register as well while we're at it?
<hno73> oh, I see the skin is broken on the admin pages
<volvoguy> ok. i need to go before i start drooling on the keyboard. thanks for stopping by hno73, it's much appreciated! i'll be back to chat in a few hours. 
<hno73> volvoguy: ok, np
<volvoguy> later everyone!
<AndyFitz> hno73,  sure thing
<daeb> Hi ppl
<daeb> Smbdy here ?
<daeb> lllmanulll ?
<lllmanulll> Yep
<lllmanulll> I'm here
<daeb> COmmentr sa roule ?
<daeb> Hi how r u ?
<daeb> Drawing ?
<daeb> AndyFitz can i help for Ub. Icons ?
<lllmanulll> Huh
<lllmanulll> Coding :)
<daeb> Erf... Summer of code again..
<lllmanulll> Struggling with that autoconf/automake mystery
<lllmanulll> By the way, about icons, I'd love to help on applications icons
<daeb> Autoconf ? Automake ? Tryu another langage i don't speak chinese... I only Know Automount ;)
<daeb> :)
<daeb> lol
<lllmanulll> Which doesn't seem to appear on the roadmap page
<lllmanulll> Hehe, don't laugh, I do speak Chinese :-p
<daeb> YTup everybody -> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/555/imgs/draw/totonixtx.jpg
<daeb> lllmanulll it's purpose is to compile ?
<daeb> i need AndyFitz
<daeb> i need an example of his icon set for ubuntu to look if i can help
<lllmanulll> daeb, Yes, automatically create Makefiles and configure scripts so that everything goes well for compiling, on several kinds of systems
<daeb> i'm volunteer to draw the System/peripheral/Hardware set of icons
<daeb> :)
<daeb> just as install.exe...
<daeb> :)
<lllmanulll> daeb, Don't know where to find that, but you can install Ubuntu if you haven't, and download the humility package
<daeb> or setup
<lllmanulll> Well that's for installing programs, this is more general, including compilation
<daeb> i see
<daeb> ./make conf
<daeb> ./ocnfigure
<daeb> oops
<daeb> :)
<lllmanulll> Nearly :)
<daeb> i have to install the new ubuntu... I tried some month ago the Hoary... 4
<daeb> Now i'm DL the latest.
<daeb> but bittorrent su**
<daeb> transfert rate = some bananas...
<lllmanulll> You can download it from the main servers ?
<lllmanulll> No need for bittorrent, if it doesn't work
<daeb> no i tought it could be great by bttorr
<lllmanulll> You can try Breezy, Colony 3
<daeb> woaw ?
<daeb> A new 1
<daeb> or a beta 1
<daeb> ?
<daeb> where can i find THE latest ?
<lllmanulll> Hmm
<lllmanulll> Well
<lllmanulll> If you want a very stable system
<lllmanulll> It's better to install Hoary
<lllmanulll> Which is version 5.04
<daeb> What's the best way for DL THE latest most - stable - then ?
<daeb> Hoary... yep, 5.04
<lllmanulll> But if you want newer stuff, and don't care to see a few things broken somtimes, Breezy is great
<daeb> I need
<daeb> Breezy ?
<daeb> what's the version ? pre-alpha ? lol ?
<daeb> I want breezy too
<daeb> :)
<daeb> nono i just need hoary then breezy will come later...
<lllmanulll> daeb, As you wish, you can also update from Hoary to breezy without reinstalling
<daeb> i'm not afraid of installing or bored with partioning for linux, i just want a stable oS to listen and draw some...
<daeb> Can i upgrade without a connexion ?
<daeb> after ?
<lllmanulll> daeb, Breezy is fairly stable
<daeb> okie.. where can i find it ?
<daeb> is ther a page ?
<lllmanulll> Hmm Google :)
<lllmanulll> Try ubuntu breezy colony 3 cd
<daeb> ubuntulinux ?
<lllmanulll> Something like that
<daeb> colony ? what is ?
<ogra> a group of badgers is a colony ;)
<lllmanulll> Haha
<lllmanulll> Right :)
<ogra> dont laug, thats the cause for this name ;)
<daeb> Yahoo ?
<daeb> lol
<daeb> hi ogra
<lllmanulll> Oh, I didn't know that :)
<ogra> a group of hedgehogs is an array... thats why the hoary CDs were called array
<daeb> I found it ! nice i didn't notice on the original site there was words a bout (?)
<daeb> a colony of hedgehogs
<daeb> :)
<ogra> heh
<daeb> no DVD now for Breezy ?
<daeb> no addons ?
<ogra> there will be a DVD containing all of main ....
<ogra> as there was for hoary
<daeb> ok... i will reuse the 5.04 supp. apps
<daeb> :)
<daeb> ogra do you make somthiing with the Art team ?
<ogra> i only package your stuff ...
<ogra> somebody has to get it in ;) 
<daeb> My... ?
<daeb> Yes so you're welcome !
<daeb> :)
<daeb> better be in good terms with you..
<daeb> I didn't produce anything for now but i'm really interested in participate...
<daeb> i can make a lot of thing, but i need something like.. hem.. a ''boss'' :)
<daeb> for instructions
<daeb> :)
<daeb> erf
<ogra> volvoguy or AndyFitz lead the art team... i guess they know where to point you...
<daeb> they are from USA... then my connexion time is not the same, i missed Volvo Guy and AndyFitz get somewhere else for now... away (so far)
<daeb> :)
<daeb> you too ?
<daeb> I left a msg
<daeb> but... I can focus their intention, i'm just a lill scrapy Irc newbie here :)
<daeb> (and anywhere else ?)
<ogra> try playing with the splash or make some wallpaper work for a start, i think there is still nobody working on...
<daeb> splash ? Wallpapers ? I got some ideas .. ok... i accept anything (:)
<ogra> just start, be creative ;)
<daeb> I can show you some works i did if you want
<daeb> i can be very creative, but i think for a projects there are rules and lines to follow (styles, colors, themes...)
<ogra> i dont think we'll change the metacity or gtk themes for now... so there could only be color changes ...
<daeb> ok
<daeb> for the splash, i don't know how the software work.. i can only give sketches or ... Picts
<ogra> i think AndyFitz wrote something up on the wiki... there are several pages about artwork rules
<daeb> nothing animated,
<ogra> the splash is only a background image for the loading process... the animations are done by gnome session...
<ogra> so you only have to make the background pic
<ogra> even for this there must be rules on the wiki anywhere
<daeb> understood
<daeb> i search
<daeb> is the.png format of photoshop equals to the gimp one ? (no worries about the tools used ?)
<lllmanulll> ogra, is the team working on applications icons as well ?
<daeb> lllmanulll yes...
<daeb> there is a lot to do about the icons
<lllmanulll> ogra, I'm working on the gnome-panel as a developper, my work being try to make it look better -- and redesigning some of the apps icons would really enhance this part of the screen
<daeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopArtwork
<lllmanulll> I see
<lllmanulll> This page here
<lllmanulll> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HumilityIcons
<daeb> lllmanulll what the purpose of the redesign ?
<lllmanulll> talks about GNOME icons
<ogra> lllmanulll, i'm not up to date about the icon status
<lllmanulll> Not apps icons, so I'm not sure which ones I should work on, not to duplicate other people's work
<ogra> lllmanulll, talk to AndyFitz ...
<lllmanulll> daeb, Hiding admin menu entries to non-admin users, redesigning the "add to panel" dialog, addind a small separator applet, a startup notification, etc.
<lllmanulll> ogra, Thanks, I'll wait for him here :)
<ogra> yup
<daeb> me too
<daeb> i need an icon exemple
<daeb> Oh my god... 0.1% of the badgers pff
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-06
<miketech> Hi
<kafeine> hello
<miketech> have just seen the ubuntu artwork variation of art.gnome.org
<miketech> when will art.ubuntu.com be online?
<kafeine> it's a good question
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:AndyFitz] : why is the ubuntu font not packaged ?
<klepas> moin
<miketech> Hi
<klepas> :-)
<lllmanulll> Hey there, anyone can give me a status on *applications* icons ? I'd love to help, since i saw lots of applications icons look ugly when enlarged, on my system
<lllmanulll> And there seems to be no applications icons in the Humility icon project
<klepas> I'd love to tell you, but I'm somewhat after the answer m'self too... :-(
<lllmanulll> All right, let's wait for somebody more informed :)
<klepas> we might be waiting for a long time
<klepas> someone told me the art team got reformed
<klepas> or something along those lines
<lllmanulll> oh, well
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:ogra] : why is the ubuntu font not packaged ? it is ! install ttf-ubuntu-title on breezy ;)
<lllmanulll> Then I guess I'll start working on these icons anyway :)
<klepas> good luck :-)
<klepas> show us what you've got afterwards :-)
<lllmanulll> Thanks
<lllmanulll> I'll put this on a webpage
<klepas> Sure
<klepas> got one now?
<lllmanulll> Yep, but no icons on it yet
<klepas> linky?
<lllmanulll> I've been working on the gnome-panel
<klepas> :-)
<lllmanulll> Here :
<lllmanulll> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancementsIdeas
<lukacu> lllmanulll: please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HumilityIcons when you start working ... to "reserve" the icon/icons :)
<lllmanulll> lukacu, I'd love to, but I'll be working on applications icons, and these are not listed on this page...
<lukacu> you can add them ...
<lllmanulll> Oh, all right :)
<lllmanulll> But is this page still relevant ?
<lllmanulll> It seems that the team is not very active...
<lllmanulll> Is it ?
<klepas> that panel stuff is really darn good
<klepas> userfriendly, usable and logic ideas
<klepas> ought to be implemented :-)
<klepas> hope they appear in breezy
<ogra> lllmanulll, doe the sudo stuff work ? 
<ogra> does even
<lllmanulll> Thanks ! :)
<lllmanulll> Yes, it works on Ubuntu
<lllmanulll> It is simply based on the admin group
<ogra> great :) its  an essential bit for edubuntu....
<klepas> nice
<lllmanulll> But I'm still speaking with people from freedesktop to let it inside their specs
<klepas> cool
<klepas> keep us updated
<klepas> ;-)
<lllmanulll> Sure :)
<lukacu> lllmanulll: dont know ... ive started it because there was a need for sychronisation of work ... perhaps if somebody starts using it it will become active
<lllmanulll> All this stuff will indeed appear in breezy, except maybe the separator and the notification
<klepas> any of you follow the kde-artists?
<lllmanulll> lukacu, All right, I'll use it :)
<klepas> because, sadly kde-artists mailing list just underwent a flamewar
<klepas> :-(
<rob^> hey theres a title now :)
<klepas> yea
<klepas> can't say it's exactly art related, but what the hey - it's a title nonetheless :-P
<rob^> well its more meaningful then the one I set
<rob^> is there even an art team yet?
<rob^> I mean, I have to blame someone for the abundance of brown..
<klepas> "rob^: is there even an art team yet?" - yea, I've been looking for something like that - have yet to find one
<klepas> lol :-)
<rob^> I might do some poking around, see what turns up
<klepas> keep me tuned
<klepas> if it's no trouble
<klepas> :-)
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam?highlight=%28art%29
* rob^ turns ugly highlighting off
<klepas> highlighting still on
<rob^> just remove everything after ?
<rob^> oh, including the ?
<klepas> yea, I did :-P
<miketech> hi
<lllmanulll> Hey there
<lllmanulll> Have a few propositions for a Firefox icon
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/icons/mozilla-firefox-normal.png
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/icons/mozilla-firefox-blink.png
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/icons/mozilla-firefox-small.png
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/icons/mozilla-firefox-foxonly.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-07
<lllmanulll> I made a few tries and designed a few icons, here :
<lllmanulll> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancementsIdeas
<lllmanulll> (bottom of the page)
<lllmanulll> Still need to be downsized for the non-vector ones, but the basic is there
<Obz> ehlo
<volvoguy> hi all! what's happenin'?
<lllmanulll> Well
<lllmanulll> Not much :)
<volvoguy> well let's get to work! *snap, snap* :o)
<lllmanulll> I did make a few icons today
<lllmanulll> But nothing fantastic :)
<lllmanulll> Anyway, is the team really active ?
<volvoguy> excellent. are you keeping in touch with andrew about getting them in the official package? 
<lllmanulll> Hmm, not yet, actually I just began this
<lllmanulll> Couldn't really find someone to tell me what icons to make, since I'd like to concentrate on applications icons
<volvoguy> we really need to be active. i think Jeff W's email on the list confirmed that. we've just been slacking off (probably my fault) while we waited for our server to be put in place. 
<lllmanulll> Ah, right, I first to need to subscribe to this list :)
<lllmanulll> Maybe you could give me your opinion about my first icons ? :)
<volvoguy> lllmanulll, are you on the mailing list? i don't see andrew in here very often, so that's probably the best way to get his attention.
<lllmanulll> I'll do that
<volvoguy> mailing list is here - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<lllmanulll> Actually I was working on code until now (for the gnome panel)
<volvoguy> cool! 
<volvoguy> honestly, i'm not sure  what the best way is to collaborate on the icons right this second. you almost have to ask andrew where he needs help. i know mime types are really lacking right now. 
<lllmanulll> That's it, subscribed ! Thanks
<volvoguy> excellent. 
<lllmanulll> I also made these :
<lllmanulll> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancementsIdeas
<lllmanulll> See bottom of the page
<lllmanulll> Any of them can actually be usable ?
<volvoguy> quite possible. have you seen the "humility" icon theme that will be the default in breezy? 
<lllmanulll> Yes, I'm using it right now
<volvoguy> good, good. i think while we're waiting for CVS/subversion/whatever, the best thing to do is submit ideas (and links to examples if you have them) to the mailing list. if we run into a really pressing issue, we'll try to get everybody in here for a meeting. 
<lllmanulll> All right, I might be posting the link above to the list, then ?
<volvoguy> i actually got a laptop from canonical for the laptop testing team, and to use on the couch (really bad back problems). unfortunately i got a spankin' new laptop that Ubuntu doesn't like so far, so i haven't got much done lately. 
<volvoguy> yeah. i would post that link and say you created the icons at the bottom... then ask generally (or Andrew specifically) what areas in the icon set need the most work. 
<lllmanulll> All right
<volvoguy> Andrew is kinda like the boss of the icon set. i know that one major thing he strives for is to only use colors from the ubuntu palette - then do overlays of black and white transparency to do shading. that's probably his most strict "rule". 
<lllmanulll> Ah right, my icons will probably need a bit of color work then
<volvoguy> probably a little. that's why i don't have much done either - it's not easy to restrict yourself to such a small palette! :)
<lllmanulll> Right...
<volvoguy> hey miketech. are you awake in here? 
<volvoguy> i found out yesterday that Canonical HAS been working on our server, and that they're using art.gnome.org as the codebase for the website. "we have the technology. we can rebuild it". :) miketech, do you know what else we might need to do to become a "repository" in your gnome-art app? 
<klepas> moin
<whiprush> volvoguy: ping
<volvoguy> yo whiprush. 
<klepas> :-)
<volvoguy> what's up?
<klepas> thanks for clearing up the art team issue for me volvo
<whiprush> volvoguy: hust got your mail
<whiprush> lemme digest it
<klepas> Yea
<volvoguy> i do what i can. :)
<klepas> I was the guy who asked
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> Sorry to hear about your back though
<volvoguy> we're glad to have ya. 
<volvoguy> thanks. it sucks, but i'll live. :)
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> I'm new to helping out with Ubuntu
<klepas> I've been reading through the wiki
<volvoguy> i'll probably just need to disappear for about a month post-surgery.
<klepas> especially in relation to joining, doing doc and art
<klepas> ouch
<whiprush> volvoguy: heh, try ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu for an ubuntu mirror. :p
<whiprush> But yeah, I can provide anything you need.
<whiprush> svn, svn, or bzr, whatever.
<whiprush> er, cvs, svn, or bzr is what I meant to say
<volvoguy> well, this group seems to be slow going right now. hopefully Jeff's comments will get people motivated. 
<whiprush> I am here to help!
<klepas> ditto
<volvoguy> I know Andrew (the icon guy) and Jeff Waugh have talked about bazzar, but I have no idea what the status is right now. 
<whiprush> So you don't go under until nov then right? Surely we can hang out before then.
<klepas> bazzar?
<klepas> http://www.volvoguy.net is heavily outdated...
<volvoguy> yep. november 4th. i get to be cut open and turned into the bionic man. well... some screws and steel cables in my spine. that's better that missing discs though i think. 
<klepas> last blog entry october last yea
<whiprush> volvoguy: we should meet irl soon then.
<whiprush> Our loco has like 30 people
<whiprush> we could help.
<volvoguy> klepas, yeah.... when i get the time to work on the computer these days i'm using working on artwork or laptop (curses) stuff. 
<klepas> curses or courses? :-)
<volvoguy> whiprush, excellent. i'm sure i can manage something this weekend or next week. my schedule is clear until the surgery now i think.
<volvoguy> klepas, curses. I got a Canonical laptop but it's too new for Linux. It has hardware RAID, SATA hard drives and a PCI express video card. none of which work with Ubuntu at the moment. 
<klepas> a canonical laptop - what exactly makes it a canonical one?
<volvoguy> oh... and bazzar (from what i understand) is Canonical's own software versioning system like CVS, Subversion and the like. 
<whiprush> volvoguy: next saturday we're doing an installfest at oakland to celebrate software freedom dasy
<whiprush> er, day
<volvoguy> klepas, they bought it for me. :)
<whiprush> but we could meet earlier, I got a comfy, back-safe couch in my office.
<volvoguy> whiprush, oooh. cool. i'll be there for that!
<whiprush> volvoguy: www.ubuntudetroit.org
<volvoguy> couches work too. :)
<klepas> ah, finally it's Friday
<volvoguy> whiprush, nice... someone (maybe you?) mentioned the detroit site the day it launched i think and it was down at the time. i keep forgetting to visit. 
<whiprush> heh
<volvoguy> nice header. :)
<whiprush> well, dude we've got plenty of members in the area, if you need any kind of help then please ping me.
<whiprush> It's all about community
<whiprush> so if you need anything from us then let us know
<whiprush> we're here to help.
<volvoguy> i appreciate it! i haven't been to an MDLUG meeting in years. :)
<whiprush> 2~heh
<whiprush> they kind of suck
<whiprush> you need to go to mug.
<volvoguy> yeah. they kinda scared me. 
<whiprush> don't worry dude, we're on a 2 year plan
<volvoguy> hanging out in SGI's building was kinda cool though. 
<whiprush> the plan is to become such a huge community that sabdfl has to visit us.
<volvoguy> woohoo!
<whiprush> we do need to meet before nov though
<volvoguy> you know, the next conference is in canada. 
<whiprush> because I'm going to montreal for the next dev conference
<volvoguy> cool. :)
<whiprush> so I need to get your concerns about whatever
<whiprush> so I can present them to the devs
<volvoguy> when is that again? 
<whiprush> first week of nov
<volvoguy> doh!
<whiprush> shitty timing
<whiprush> either way, it's crappy that we haven't linked up yet.
<whiprush> you'd dig our loco, we got a good thing going on
<volvoguy> sabdfl would have to pay my way anyway. although likely being involved in two teams now, i knew the medical stuff would screw it up.
<volvoguy> do you mostly do stuff on OU's campus?
<whiprush> ya
<whiprush> we're doing lots of linux stuff now
<volvoguy> cool. 
<whiprush> my hope is that the U will fund a group to go to every ubuntu conference.
<volvoguy> can you get me some scholarships? 
<volvoguy> :)
<whiprush> :p I wish
<whiprush> I'm thinking in the short term that we should link up and Do Great Things(tm)
<whiprush> and things like sponsorship end up taking care of themselves.
<volvoguy> this workers comp stuff is a bunch of BS. before the surgery decision yesterday they were planning on handing me over to a vocational counselor to decide what jobs i could do with major pain and addicted to narcotics. yeah... right. 
<whiprush> hey so you think you're healthy enough to meet sometime this week?
<klepas> whoa.
<whiprush> I'm flexible to whatever needs you have
<volvoguy> it might have to be a last-minute-play-it-by-ear kinda thing, but i'm sure i could manage something this week.
<whiprush> rocking.
<whiprush> we have lots to discuss.
<volvoguy> klepas, yeah... i don't think i'd even want to work for the company that would hire me in this condition. 
<whiprush> maybe find you some work that doesn't screw you over. :p
<volvoguy> hey, if someone could help me beat this laptop into shape, i'd be happy. 
<whiprush> volvoguy: I'm basically stuck at work for most of the time with the semester just starting, so just im or mail me and I'll round up the local ubuntu crew to wherever you want to meet.
<klepas> volvoguy: for an idea of the sort of art I enjoy doing, and would like to do for Ubuntu (taking in mind their nice colour palette) see this - http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
<whiprush> as long as they have beer.
<klepas> lol :-)
<volvoguy> beer and narcotics are a nice mix. as long as you drive. ;)
<whiprush> we can arrange drives
<whiprush> that's the best part. :p
<volvoguy> klepas, nice stuff! i dig the earthy tones. :)
<klepas> yea
<klepas> I actually use Suse and KDE the most
<volvoguy> whiprush, where's the best place to IM you?
<klepas> being the system I was first introduced to, have learned to hack somewhat and yea
<klepas> but I love Ubuntu
<klepas> :-)
<volvoguy> klepas, when the art website opens, there will be a dedicated section for kubuntu. the best of both worlds. :)
<whiprush> volvoguy: jorge.castro@gmail.com for gtalk or whiprush on aim
<whiprush> jorge@whiprush.org or castro@oakland.edu for mail
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> nice
<klepas> but I love gnome too
<klepas> Ubuntu would be the system of choice for a laptop
<klepas> whenever I get one
<volvoguy> whiprush, added ya on AIM. I'm awaite32 there. 
<klepas> :-)
<whiprush> okey
<whiprush> man dude, suse.
<whiprush> it's like they try to turn off gnome users on purpose.
<klepas> I like my Suse box.
<klepas> Howcome?
<whiprush> the desktop is just not put together well
<klepas> Suse's Gnome has a lot of cool features 
<whiprush> none of the icons match
<whiprush> the menus are a mess
<volvoguy> Suse used to be really gnome-centric didn't it? 
<klepas> and they are trying to get Ximian on Suse
<klepas> vovloguy: yea, years back though
<volvoguy> i actually BOUGHT SuSE Pro about a week before the Warty preview came out. doh!
<klepas> lol
<whiprush> heh
<klepas> what version?
<klepas> 9.3?
<klepas> :D
<volvoguy> ummm. (looks for box propping up the printer)
<whiprush> volvoguy: we're a suse mirror now too, opensuse.secs.oakland.edu
<klepas> cool
<klepas> yea, opensuse is just sweet
<volvoguy> i forget. it was the first release after the novell buyout. 
<klepas> the release date for Suse 10 (yep, from 9.3 to 10.0!! :-D ) has been moved closer by weeks at a time due to the massive input by the opensuse project
<klepas> ah, 9.2 if I recall correctly
<volvoguy> wow. you mean opensource works?! hehe. 
<whiprush> heading to bed
<whiprush> nite guys
<volvoguy> ok. catch you soon whiprush!
<whiprush> ok
<whiprush> hope to meet you soon!
<volvoguy> ditto.
<volvoguy> yeah. 9.2 sounds about right. 
<klepas> nn whiprush :-)
<volvoguy> it took them so long to deliver it that they upgraded me from standard to pro... but by the time it got here i was already using Ubuntu and I never even installed it. 
<volvoguy> but it's all good. i've been using linux for almost ten years, so it was about time they got a little money from me. :)
<volvoguy> yeah... i definitely like your color schemes klepas.
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> yea
<klepas> we usually purchase every major release
<klepas> 8.x, 9.x
<volvoguy> i remember installing slackware entirely from floppies. man i feel old. 
<klepas> whoa!
<klepas> hey, just a quick question
<volvoguy> sure.
<klepas> I've got a friend on the line who knows his fair share of PHP and MySQL etc.
<klepas> I asked him whether he was interested in helping out on art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> he just wants to know how much there is to do
<klepas> and if he could do only a bit
<klepas> [if there was heaps[
<volvoguy> well, i don't have access to the server directly yet myself, so i haven't seen the damage yet. the "definitely not live" site is sitting here right now - http://69.60.114.112/
<klepas> yup
<volvoguy> from what i've heard, submissions aren't actually making it to the database yet, and therefore don't get displayed anywhere. 
<klepas> I've got to run
<klepas> sadly
<klepas> gave my friend the url
<klepas> he'll have a look
<volvoguy> ok. i'm going to try to be around quite a bit this weekend. we'll talk soon.
<klepas> sure
<klepas> I intend to check back
<klepas> thanks again
<klepas> expect a reply on the mailing list soon
<klepas> and by Sunday I hope to have done a splash screen image
<klepas> or 2
<klepas> :-)
<volvoguy> excellent! check the archives too.... someone submitted a pretty cool GDM spash concept. 
<klepas> yea, saw that
<klepas> it look awesome
<klepas> I might build on from it
<volvoguy> cool.
<klepas> any idea where I can get the source for that file?
<klepas> (gimp xcf for eg.)
<volvoguy> ask on the list. i don't know if the author is sharing yet. 
<klepas> yup
<klepas> anyhoo
<volvoguy> we need to get a good bootsplash going too. the current one is frightening. 
<klepas> thanks and kudos
<klepas> agreed!
<volvoguy> no problem!
<klepas> :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-08
<klepas> moin
<miketech> moin
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-09
<klepas> moin
<klepas> :-)
<volvoguy> howdy klepas.
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> how's it going?
<volvoguy> oh, not too bad. i've been in bed most of the day. 
<klepas> back aches?
<volvoguy> yeah. rough day. 
<klepas> damn
<volvoguy> i've opted for a tasty shiraz red wine tonight instead of drugs. seems to be working so far. 
<klepas> found the most pleasant message in my inbox yesterday
<klepas> ;-)
<klepas> i did a splash screen for my favourite music manager under KDE - JuK
<klepas> I sent it to the dev - Scott Wheeler
<klepas> and he loved it
<volvoguy> cool!
<klepas> will be included in KDE 3.5, and possibly 4 as well
<klepas> the other cool thing is that JuK never had a splash screen before
<klepas> so i think i started something here - the next one will be determined via a competition
<klepas> did you see - GNOME 2.12 is looking for a new splash?
<miketech> Hi
<klepas> moin miketech
<volvoguy> well, i know ubuntu is going to try to have a new GDM spash screen for Breezy. 
<klepas> btw - volvo - you can see it [JuK splash]  - http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/51
<klepas> cool
<klepas> i'm interested in making the background or something like that
<klepas> GDM is only the login though - there would have to be a GDM theme and a splash screen
<klepas> unless i am mistaken
<miketech> there is a gnome 2.12. splash screen contest at the moment
<klepas> yep
<klepas> http://art.gnome.org
<miketech> yup
<klepas> entries due in today
<klepas> not going to make that deadline :-(
<volvoguy> howdy miketech.
<klepas> miketech: are you putting in an entry?
<miketech> no
<miketech> i am not a good artist :)
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> how about you volvoguy?
<volvoguy> i'll be working on Ubuntu stuff. probably not Gnome branded artwork though.
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> i can't wait for art.ubuntu.com to be up
<miketech> yeah ive seen the test system
<miketech> very nice
<volvoguy> it's up, more or less. the submissions just aren't making it to the website at the moment.
<volvoguy> hey miketech, is the art.gnome.org website code alone enough to make the ubuntu repository in your gnome-art app?
<miketech> hm gnome-art currently only supports one server
<miketech> if you wanna use it for ubuntu you have to change the url in gnome-art
<miketech> and copy the xml.php from art.gnome.org
<miketech> then it should work
<volvoguy> ok. i wasn't sure if you talked to the MySQL database directly or if we have to wait for all the SOAP stuff you told me about.
<miketech> currently we are using mysql database directly
<miketech> but via xml file
<miketech> on AGO there is a xml.php that returns xml code, that is parsed by gnome-art
<klepas> i'm going to afk for a while
<klepas> talk to you guys later
<volvoguy> oh. that's not a huge change then. i don't know if gnome-art is going to be in the main repository for breezy, but if it is i'll pass along those changes. 
<klepas> cheers
<volvoguy> see ya later klepas!
<miketech> cu klepas 
<miketech> ok i can show you, where to change it
<volvoguy> will it work if our database isn't generating  an xml file though?
<miketech> no, xml.php is the interface for gnome-art
<volvoguy> ahh. gotcha. 
<miketech> its a very simple file
<volvoguy> ok. if it's easy, give me a run through. 
<volvoguy> i just have ssh access to my breezy machine ATM, but i can demo the GUI later. 
<miketech> ok, you simply have to copy the xml.php from AGO to your server
<volvoguy> let's see... does wget parse the php file when in grabs it? 
<miketech> yup
* volvoguy thinking....
<miketech> do you have cvs access to AGO?
<volvoguy> no. our server guy is the only one working with AGO directly at the moment. 
<miketech> ok wait
<volvoguy> if he got the code from CVS though, he might already have it. 
<volvoguy> yep. there's an xml.php file sitting in the site's root directory.
<miketech> ah ok
<miketech> ah yeah its working *g*
<volvoguy> i'm *not* a php guru though by any means. do i need to make any changes? 
<miketech> hm well the problem is:
<miketech> art.ubuntu.com has different categories
<miketech> and the categories arent dynamically at the moment
<volvoguy> yes. 
<volvoguy> it looks like he added the new categories at the top of the php file already. does that help?
<miketech> hm no, this means many changes in gnome-art
<miketech> because the current version of gnome-art doesnt support categories dynamically
<volvoguy> i finally have sudo priviledges on our server. i went almost a week trying to make changes to things before i realized they hadn't given me access yet. 
<miketech> you can use your xml file, but i dont know, what will happen
<volvoguy> ooooh. i gotcha.
<volvoguy> would it be easy for me to grab gnome-art out of cvs and make the changes and compile it myself? 
<miketech> hm no, there are many changes needed :(
<miketech> its easy to change the path of the xml file
<miketech> but then your categories arent working
<volvoguy> i see. 
<miketech> but you can try it of course
<miketech> maybe some categories will work
<volvoguy> i think the app is only in Ubuntu's universe, so it wouldn't make it into breezy even if it were working correctly. 
<miketech> ah ok
<volvoguy> ok. i'll see what i can do over the weekend. is it in gnome's cvs system?
<miketech> no
<miketech> miketech.net/gnome-art
<volvoguy> k.
<miketech> here you can download the source code
<miketech> i can tell you what you have to change:
<miketech> in lib/gnome-art you will find a file:
<miketech> config.rb
<volvoguy> k
<miketech> there is a line:    XML_File = "http://art.gnome.org/xml.php"
<miketech> change it to:     XML_File = "http://http://69.60.114.112/xml.php"
<miketech> oops
<miketech> http://69.60.114.112/xml.php
<miketech> you know :)
<volvoguy> :) yep
<miketech> then it should work with the old categories
<miketech> maybe backgrounds are working
<miketech> maybe some icons
<miketech> its a ruby script
<miketech> if you have already installed it you can change the code directly
<miketech> the file should be installed in a ruby-dir, maybe /usr/lib/ruby/site-ruby/1.8/gnome-art/config.rb
<volvoguy> yep. i have it installed. 
<volvoguy> found it.
<volvoguy> k. changed it. 
<volvoguy> my job for the evening was to submit some artwork, so i probably can't test it until there's some conten there. :)
<miketech> there are 3 backgrounds
<volvoguy> oh. cool. henrik must have been busy today!
<miketech> but you should take a look at the xml file
<miketech> maybe you have to change some urls in there
<miketech> replacing art.gnome.org with your url
<volvoguy> ok. i'll check it out. just changing that one URL didn't seem to do it. 
<miketech> but nice to see the art.gnome.org software running
<miketech> because when soap is continue working we simply can migrate it on art.ubuntu.com
<volvoguy> yeah. i guess henrik has done a good amount of talking to the AGO guys and they're going to keep the sites as similar as possible.
<miketech> but currently everyone is on vacation *g*
<miketech> yup i have read the threads on the mailinglist
<volvoguy> yes. :) except me who's always on vacation... well, kinda. 
<miketech> lol
<miketech> we have some nice mockups of new gnome-art
<miketech> but only mockups
<volvoguy> i joke - but take my advice. don't ever do anything at a job that could injure you. 
<miketech> hm
<miketech> maybe its too late ...
<miketech> but i will remember it for the future :)
<volvoguy> you showed me a couple of them, and i passed 'em along to Jeff Waugh (still the "big cheese" as far as art goes). 
<volvoguy> hehe
<miketech> i am always working a lot
<volvoguy> it turns out that i'm probably lucky they've treated me so badly. there's a good chance i'll win a big lawsuit when it's all over. 
<miketech> hm??
<miketech> what has happened?
<volvoguy> i know that all the art people i've taled to are excited about the whole "artwork repository" idea. i'm sure it'll make it into ubuntu main eventually.
<volvoguy> oh, my employer really hassled me about it initially, stopped paying me for a while, sent me to about a half dozen of "their doctors" who all claimed i was fine - and they're still holding back paychecks on weeks that i have end of the week doc appointments. 
<miketech> uargs
<volvoguy> they were ready to dump me and send me back to work this week until my doctor told them i'll be needing major surgery that requires a year of recovery time.
<miketech> sounds terrible
<miketech> i wish you good luck with your lawsuit
<volvoguy> it has been, but i think it'll work to my advantage in the end. 
<volvoguy> thanks!
<miketech> oh i see.. i should go to bed 
<miketech> here it is nearly 5 am
<volvoguy> well hey, i need to go spend some time on my other ubuntu project (the laptop testing team). 
<volvoguy> perfect timing. :)
<miketech> oh laptopt testing team?
<volvoguy> have a good night. i'll let you know how i get along with gnome-art.
<volvoguy> yeah. they gave me a laptop to do hardware testing with.
<miketech> but top priority is your health
<miketech> ubuntu "only" is a hobby
<volvoguy> yes. :)
<miketech> youve got a laptop??
<volvoguy> the red wine seems to be effective tonight. :)
<miketech> lol
<volvoguy> yeah. Canonical sent me a really new Toshiba laptop.
<miketech> canonical has too much money :))
<volvoguy> really new meaning it won't work properly even with breezy yet. :)
<volvoguy> hey, i'm not complaining. :)
<miketech> oh *g*
<miketech> hehe :)
<volvoguy> it means i can work from the couch. 
<miketech> but ubuntu is going a good way
<miketech> i have it installed now too
<miketech> on my desktop system
<volvoguy> yes. i really like their whole philosophy - as well as the software - and Mark is a really great guy. 
<miketech> do you know him?
<volvoguy> just from talking to him on IRC and email. 
<miketech> ah ok
<volvoguy> i'll make it to a conference one of these days though. 
<miketech> well you are really with ubuntu *g*
<miketech> + involved
<volvoguy> yep. i'm sold. it's the first distro i've actually been able to do work with and not just "play" with. 
<miketech> hehe yeah
<volvoguy> (and that's after nearly 10 years of Linux involvement)!
<miketech> and the poeple love it
<miketech> we distributed over 1000 cds on the "linux tag" in germany within 4 days
<volvoguy> excellent! i just grabbed the knoppix the other day that was released at linux tag. 
<miketech> ah. its a nice way to do some recovery stuff. but i dont like it as a desktop system *g*
<volvoguy> it *ahem* recognized all the hardware in my laptop. i'm trying to use that to motivate the ubuntu devs. :)
<miketech> hehe yeah 
<volvoguy> me too.
<miketech> the hardware recognition is really good
<miketech> but its bloated
<volvoguy> yeah. REALLY good. breezy doesn't even recognize that there's a hard drive or video card in my laptop.
<miketech> not even the hard drive?
<miketech> thats hard *g*
<volvoguy> at least knoppix is really "pretty". i use the DVD often to show off the state of the linux desktop.
<volvoguy> well, it's an SATA drive connected to a RAID controller. yes. in a laptop. :)
<miketech> wow :)
<volvoguy> it'll rock when i finally get Ubuntu installed. :)
<miketech> canonical really does have to much money :)
<volvoguy> :)
<miketech> i am interested in breez
<miketech> y
<miketech> tried to installed it, but didnt boot :)
<volvoguy> i'm trying to make myself useful enough that they'll want to hire me when my back is fixed. :)
<volvoguy> breezy is still pretty rough around the edges. 
<miketech> you wanna work for canonical?
<miketech> nice :)
<volvoguy> i have a fully functioning desktop machine, but it was a hoary to breezy upgrade.
<volvoguy> i'd love to.
<miketech> hehe yeah why not
<volvoguy> especially if i could move. i always thought i was born on the wrong continent. 
<miketech> where are you coming from?
<volvoguy> i'm in detroit, michigan, usa.
<volvoguy> and i drive european cars. :)
<miketech> ah and where is the registered office of canonical?
<miketech> hehe :) 
<volvoguy> the isle of man. an island between ireland and england i believe. 
<miketech> ah you dont like usa?
<volvoguy> well, i don't like detroit. 
<miketech> the last time ive been there i was maybe 12 years old :)
<miketech> a long time ago :)
<miketech> oh well i really have to go *g*
<volvoguy> the auto capital of the world and the roads are so bad you hesitate to drive on them sometimes. way too much money around here crammed into way too little space. 
<volvoguy> ah yes. :)
<volvoguy> have a good night. :)
<miketech> thanks :) and good luck! good night
<volvoguy> g'night. :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:AndyFitz] : why is the ubuntu font not packaged ? it is ! install ttf-ubuntu-title on breezy ;) ROCK AND ROLL
<klepas|afk> still there?
(klepas/#ubuntu-artwork) :-)
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> i wouldn't want to flood the other channel
<jsgotangco> :)
<klepas> hey
<volvoguy> ahh yes. i already got yelled at once in there for going off topic. (if nobody has spoken in 30 minutes, how can 3 sentences be off topic?) :-P
<jsgotangco> heh
<volvoguy> by next week we should have an ubuntu-ized version of the art.gnome.org website up and running. 
<volvoguy> hopefully we'll get a flood of good artwork that we can quickly tweak and promote as official breezy artwork. 
<jsgotangco> sure there will be submissions
<jsgotangco> the forums has been flooded with that (backgrounds and stuff)
<jsgotangco> even usplash
<volvoguy> yes. there's a pretty fair amount of ubuntu specific artwork up at gnome-look.org as well. 
<volvoguy> i think our own art site will be really popular. 
<jsgotangco> where are you hosting it?
<volvoguy> honestly, i don't know. a canonical person named Henrik did most of the "porting" and it's set up on a colocated machine instead of at Canonical's facilities. 
<volvoguy> it's kinda cool to have a sudo account on a production server running Ubuntu. :) i'm stuck with RHEL on my own colo box. 
<volvoguy> well hey, i'm going to go have a bedtime snack and see if a real WinXP disc works better on this laptop. drop by here anytime though. the more the merrier. :o)
<volvoguy> g'night all! 
<jsgotangco> laters
<klepas> drat
<klepas> just missed em
<klepas> anyone awake at this uncanny hour?
<klepas> :)
<klepas> anyone home?
<klepas> :(
<Ju> Hi all !
<Ju> I"m looking for the ubuntu logo in svg format...
<lukacu> hi Ju! try this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuArtwork
<Ju>  /o\ sorry one hundred times, google didn't show this one... Thanks for the link...
<lukacu> no problem
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-11
<twitch_> ehlo
<miketech> uhh
<miketech> art.ubuntu.com is up. very nice
<twitch> yeh, it's cool
<miketech> very good work
<twitch> inspired me to open Inkscape again :)
<miketech> hehe
<miketech> there are some very good ideas
<miketech> do you know, what themes will be provided there?
<miketech> only gnome themes?
<miketech> or kde themes too?
<twitch> at the moment it's setup mostly for gnome themes, so i'm not sure what will happen with kubuntu
<twitch> i think the idea is to keep the artwork ubuntu centric though - i think that's the only requirement
<twitch> rather than duplicating themes from art.gnome.org/{gnome,kde}-look.org
<miketech> eah
<miketech> yeah
<daeb> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-04
<Madpilot> Um, a seperate Ubuntu art forum
<Madpilot> ?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: art forum?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, proposed idea on the -art ML
<Burgundavia> oh, madness, unless it is part of ubuntuforums
<Madpilot> who knows... I didn't point out the Marketing team's experiment w/ seperate forums - you might want to...
<Burgundavia> not subscribed to the art list anymore
<Burgundavia> too noisy
<huwshimi> Hi. Just a quick question. What's the correct protocol for submitting artwork for Edgy?
<kwwii> huwshimi: post it on the wiki or send a link in a mail to the list
<huwshimi> On this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/?
<kwwii> that seems to be the right page
<huwshimi> Ok. I might send an email first. Thanks very much kwwii.
<kwwii> huwshimi: no problem, glad to be of help :-)
<huwshimi> Hi all again. I have just made some artwork that I would like to propose for Egdy Eft, but before I add it to incoming I thought I'd find out what you guys thought. You can check it out here: http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/
<andreasn> huwshimi: dude, that is totally nice work
<andreasn> the glassy logo looks a bit weird together with the flat patterns though
<huwshimi> Thanks. Yeah I was trying to follow the guidelines on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Propose/Results
<andreasn> hm, is this technically possible now? http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/screenshot_splash.png
<andreasn> anyway, sweet stuff
<huwshimi> andreasn: Yes! That's a real screenshot.
<andreasn> wow, cool
<huwshimi> andreasn: So worth adding to incoming?
<andreasn> huwshimi: I have no idea, I mostly idle here
<andreasn> huwshimi: I haven't followed the artwork development closeley
<andreasn> this release
<huwshimi> andreasn: OK, no problems
<msikma> Hey everybody
<Viper550> Hello everyone...
<Viper550> kwwii, still there? I'm concerned about styles
<kwwii> man, don't leave 5 minutes after askng a question
<troy_s> greetings all.
<kwwii> hi troy_s
<troy_s> how is it going kwwii?
<kwwii> troy_s: pretty good, drawing some icons...how about you?
<troy_s> well time is ticking out for me.
<troy_s> chat in a few minutes... family beckons.
<kwwii> hehe, have fun :-)
<msikma> Hi everybody
<msikma> Been a while since I've taken a look in here.
<kwwii> hi msikma
<msikma> I had food poisoning a while back, so I was out for a few days. :(
<troy_s> msikma that is NO good
<troy_s> food poisoning stinks
<msikma> Yeah, it'll take some time before I trust another milkshake.
<troy_s> eek
<msikma> By the way, I've been doing some experimenting with the GTK like you requested, using those scans you sent me to help figure out a palette.
<msikma> I'll still need some more time to finalize it but here's one of those tests: http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/ubuntu-humannew.png
<troy_s> Have you figured out how the colours work?
<troy_s> I believe the metacity pulls the colours from the GTKrc
<troy_s> and divides them etc...
<msikma> Yeah, all you need to change around are the hex values in the gtkrc.
<msikma> Anyway, talk to you a little later.
<troy_s> if you have them mapped
<troy_s> msikma
<troy_s> could you wiki your findings?
<troy_s> i started experimenting last night
<troy_s> but couldn't finish
<troy_s> basically, if you can use widget factory to draw a 'map'
<troy_s> of where each colour lands, i will try to make up a corresponding
<msikma> Oh, mainly I just copied all the hex values into a Photoshop document and did the manipulation from there. I haven't figured out which value belongs to which aspect of the design. The "easy way out".
<troy_s> gimp palette with names so that people can plug and play
<troy_s> well yes...
<troy_s> i know ONE value,
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> the real strange thing is that the window border
<troy_s> value shows up in the theme switcher
<troy_s> but not when you load the corresponding theme...
<troy_s> so i still need to research it a bit.
<troy_s> J. Krause's work is quite impressive.
<troy_s> Although I suggest you use the RGB values
<troy_s> as they come up true to the images
<troy_s> the CMYK is obviously targetting print so are a little more bright
<troy_s> msikma, you should also note that some of the details are 'attached' in clearlooks so your mock might not be able to meet the xml requirements
<troy_s> as in the border shadow will probably colour something else, which means you need to localize them.
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation has some good links for references.
<troy_s> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
<troy_s> being one of them
<Seveas> troy_s, I'm now working on making creating usplash themes easier
<msikma> troy_s: how do you mean? That's a live screenshot, not a mock-up.
<troy_s> msikma sorry lost
<troy_s> seveas great.  can you look at that logout translucent box cairo issue?
<Seveas> It's on my todo list
<Seveas> but usplash needs a bit more work to be usable
<troy_s> did you get any ppc response yet?
<troy_s> it would be nice to know exactly what we can design for.
<msikma> Hmm, maybe I should try out what you suggested on the mailing list earlier, Troy, concerning usplash
<msikma> http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/radial_light.gif I made an updated version of what I showed earlier.
<msikma> By the way, this is how I think we should do glossy/shiny objects: http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/base.png
<BHSPitLappy> nice
<troy_s> msikma it would be nice to see it as a spotlight -- just to compare
<troy_s> also, for consistency, i would look to the default folder icon, the arrows, etc, for the curve radius on the logo
<troy_s> there are a good number of icons that implement the curvature
<msikma> Like how you explained on the list, with the radial light being replaced by a gradient blob?
<troy_s> we sort of talked about  a 'spotlight' in paris
<msikma> I actually never really believed in that kind of curvature, to be honest.
<troy_s> msikma -- i agree.  but unfortunately, it is a constraint we need to work within as the icons will not change.
<troy_s> anything that butts up against it will simply tear the cohereancy apart.
<troy_s> i plan on working on a design spec for ubun2
<msikma> I'd rather fix what I believe is a suboptimal type of art element than keep on using it for consistency reasons.
<troy_s> it is hard to fix though because the icons wont change
<troy_s> as per sabdfl.
<troy_s> he is open to changing them if we manage to deliver a full set
<troy_s> that he approves of.
<troy_s> but until then, i believe our work goes a long way to making the default look more cohesive by buying into it... perhaps making it as good as you can.
<msikma> Someday, surely sabdfl will decide to drop the Human icon set after he decides that probably all these artists who disagree with him are more knowledgeable on the subject than he is. But that's a different thing entirely and I hope we won't begin discussing it right now...
<BHSPitLappy> so anyone here involved with sound
<BHSPitLappy> or mostly the graphical side of things
<troy_s> bhsppitlappy right now peter savage has been doing the sound work.
<msikma> You know, I could probably make a new icon set but I'm not good at vector. I'd make a proof of concept, but it'd be in raster.
<troy_s> i have been actively trying to cultivate the crew.
<troy_s> msikma -- sketches are the best place to start
<troy_s> because you can change them quickly as per sabdfl's direction
<troy_s> but before we start sketching, we need a good design doc with a few singular samples
<troy_s> so that the entire set echoes the content and thematic of the doc.
<msikma> I wonder if sometimes people are reminding sabdfl that even though this is "his" distro, he surely isn't commissioning a bunch of people to make a distro the way he and only he likes it.
<troy_s> bhspitlappy i believe the most recent attempts are at:
<troy_s> http://progbox.co.uk/finals in the date folder
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy
<troy_s> contact frank -- he has taken over coordinating the sounds
<BHSPitLappy> I recorded potential login/logout sounds a few minutes ago
<BHSPitLappy> prototypes I guess
<troy_s> msikma -- ultimately he is the client.
<troy_s> i don't think it is about an ego trip, but rather he hasn't found the substance in the community to warrant trust yet.
<BHSPitLappy> I'm not ready to publish them yet, I need to get permission from a friend first
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy go have a peep at that link.
<BHSPitLappy> troy_s, I've actually already heard the three there.
<BHSPitLappy> the three FINAL ones. and I'm not a fan of any of them...
<BHSPitLappy> :/
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy inevitable.
<BHSPitLappy> no offense if the makers are here
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy those creative bits are always subjective.
<BHSPitLappy> well, it shouldn't be too subjective what a login sound SHOULD accomplish
<troy_s> i don't think anyone would take offense at folks who dislike something.  just simple aesthetics.
<BHSPitLappy> it's not supposed to be a fanfare
<BHSPitLappy> which is what those are
<BHSPitLappy> I like the dapper sounds a lot
<troy_s> what are you basing the 'should' on?
<BHSPitLappy> reason
<troy_s> because without some backup design references, you might be hard pressed to have anyone listen.
<BHSPitLappy> obviously not completely
<msikma> troy_s: ultimately, we are making a distro that is to become popular on the desktop market. Good design is terribly essential. Sabdfl is not a designer.
<BHSPitLappy> who's sabdfl
<troy_s> msikma -- if you get a proto up of the spotlight and seveas gets the usplash changes in
<troy_s> msikma -- sabdfl though is the client.
<msikma> Surely, he's the client we're working for, but I feel that perhaps it might not hurt to be a bit more bold someitmes.
<troy_s> msikma -- it has been tried.  he wields the power and ultimately it is easier to get changes if you simply 'pull' certain directions rather than reinventing the wheel.
<Seveas> "sabdfl is not a designer" is quite true
<Seveas> he was responsible for the r-rated warty theme 
<troy_s> agree 100%, but that said
<troy_s> we need to develop a proof that we can be programatic with the art development
<troy_s> integrate well with the rest of the team
<Seveas> indeed
<troy_s> and produce stuff that simply 'works' with the existing set.
<msikma> For now, yes.
<troy_s> radical changes don't actually help, no matter how 'good' they are'
<msikma> But I believe that the future holds us making art that disregards what is currently available and sets a new course. One that actually works.
<troy_s> they actually detract from the overall consistency, which is at least as important as to how 'good' something is.
<msikma> The current human GTK theme, for example, or the human icon set, they do not work, from my point of view.
<troy_s> msikma -- absolutely -- but that i would hope is grounded in solid design theory
<troy_s> meaning it is more likely he will listen if we provide a solid design doc
<msikma> Hmmm
<troy_s> with a solid grounding with _references_ to
<troy_s> design books
<troy_s> otherwise, it is nothing more than pure comment
<troy_s> and _everyone_ has a comment.
* BHSPitLappy wishes he was more in the loop
<troy_s> he needs to feel comfortable that the decisions are based on A) education, B) good solid design theory, C) work with his 'view' of what ubuntu stands for.
<troy_s> and that will take a good bit of effort.
<Seveas> troy_s, that's probab;y the most sensoble thing said about Ubuntu artwork ever
<msikma> But one of Ubuntu's strengths is the fact that people who are more knowledgeable on something are listened to more than people who aren't. That way you can already filter out a lot of the noise.
<troy_s> which is again why i encourage everyone to simply 'buy' into what we have
<troy_s> msikma -- in fact, there is one person who is more listened to than others -- and we must respect the fact that while we may not agree with 100% of his decisions
<troy_s> he is the SOLE reason that ubuntu is a real desktop threat at the moment.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy hang in there... hopefully the wiki can get you up to speed more easily than it was to get up to speed four months ago.
<BHSPitLappy> does he actually call himself sabdfl?
<troy_s> msikma, and never forget, who is 'more knowledgable' is, as einstein's general theory of relativity is concerned, is relative.
<msikma> I still wonder, though. Take Jimmac's icon theme, Tango, for example. There is no doubt that he is well-educated, experienced and knowledgeable in the many different fields of graphic design. It could be argued that changing the set's colors to orange with Tangerine could be considered making the icons work with Ubuntu's philosophy. Yet, it was rejected for what I feel are very feeble and uneducated reasons.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy its an open source term.
<BHSPitLappy> I know what it is
<BHSPitLappy> but it says that it's his nick on freenode
<BHSPitLappy> and if he refers to himself as that, then wow
<troy_s> msikma -- while i respect jimmac immensley, what are his education credentials?
<troy_s> outside of open source?
<msikma> To be honest, I don't really care.
<msikma> I don't see why we should.
<troy_s> msikma -- that is nice, but when you are spending a good deal of money on something
<troy_s> those credentials matter
<troy_s> to accept the risk
<msikma> Not really. Jimmac is so incredibly experienced and has done many jobs for large companies.
<troy_s> J. Ives has a fine arts degree.
<msikma> That strongly outweighs education.
<troy_s> and dare i say, his stature is probably a byproduct of it.
<msikma> It is my experience that it's a strong showreel of skills and experience that gets a designer a job as opposed to him having gone to a school.
<troy_s> msikma -- its both.
<msikma> But moreso the showreel.
<troy_s> education shows dedication to the craft.
<troy_s> it also provides one with a solid background in historical design decisions.
<msikma> Einstein wasn't a good scholar, either.
<troy_s> and art movements.
<troy_s> exceptions are easily found... but look to the more commons...
<msikma> I've seen interns do better stuff than hardened professionals. I think that it's dumb to discard someone like Jimmac because "Hmm, which school did he go to anyway?"
<troy_s> personally, when i am hiring someone, i look to BOTH
<troy_s> it simply shows dedication
<msikma> Anyway, the point is that Jimmac's icon set is a product of his gigantic amount of experience. Perhaps of his knowledge of design theory as well; regardless if he went to a good school or not. It was rejected.
<msikma> This makes me very uncertain about any of my contributions.
<troy_s> well... ultimately a project can't be for everyone.
<troy_s> perhaps that is a question that one needs to ask themselves.
<troy_s> you can't please everyone.
<msikma> I would contribute more if it weren't for the fact my contributions could at any time be revoked for bad reasons.
<msikma> This is not a pay job.
<troy_s> bad or otherwise.
<msikma> If my contributions are discarded for good reasons, then that's just tough luck. If it's rejected for a bad reason, it's a reason for me to leave and never come back.
<troy_s> that is a personal question i suppose.
<msikma> The reason why I'm contributing to this is because it would be beneficial to the world if Ubuntu became a popular desktop operating system.
<troy_s> for me, good and bad are so relative i would rather discuss 'what is art' for the umpteenth thousandth time.
<msikma> But that seems to not be sabdfl's agenda, if he is so concerned with taking decisions even if he is not knowledgeable on the subject.
<troy_s> msikma -- perhaps -- and yet his decisions thus far have resulted in the most popular distribution that has managed to persuade sun, intel, and a few other significant vendors to be revealed.
<troy_s> including dell.
<troy_s> and a few others.
<troy_s> so like it or not, there is something working within his vision.
<msikma> Doesn't matter.
<msikma> He's not a designer.
<troy_s> well then i guess ultimately one mask ask who 'is'
<troy_s> must ask.
<troy_s> which is again tricky .
<msikma> Someone who discards good art with the reason of "nah don't really like it" is not.
<troy_s> msikma -- i feel your pain.
<troy_s> i have had to argue with a client regarding composition for something, but alas, it is ultimately _their_ call.
<troy_s> when i do my own projects, i get to put whatever twist i feel in.
<troy_s> when i do theirs, the ones that pay me or offer me something else, i cleave to their work.
<msikma> Anyway, I currently have better things to do than stifle discussions with vague points concerning the identity of the graphic designer. I hope you won't mind. I'll talk to you a bit later.
<troy_s> certainly.
<troy_s> be good msikma.
<msikma> Also that was jokingly said, I like these discussions
<msikma> (The comment about stifling discussions)
<troy_s> ship me your design concepts for a new evolution too
<troy_s> as i would like to get much input and see if i can phrase it in a way that sabdfl would find plausible.
<BHSPitLappy> connection problems, msikma ?
<BHSPitLappy> hey PingunZ
<PingunZ> hey BHSPitLappy
<PingunZ> I wast just going to sleep
<PingunZ> so quick ;)
<BHSPitLappy> heh.
<BHSPitLappy> I recorded some sounds today
<PingunZ> nice
<PingunZ> quick quick, links :)
<PingunZ> or mail, pingunz#gmail.com
<PingunZ> I'll listen tomorrow
<BHSPitLappy> can't yet
<PingunZ> ' NIght all
<BHSPitLappy> night
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-05
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome!  =-=-= Most current news and items https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/ =-=-= Start at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork =-=-= Tasks at http://www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs =-=-= IRC Logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ =-=-=
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> hello huwshimi
<troy_s> thanks for your contribution
<huwshimi> troy_s: np
<huwshimi> troy_s: I will try to gloss up the splash screen I followed the guide as to matt background/gloss foreground. But the splash still needs some work
<BHSPitLappy> hi all
<troy_s> huwshimi it's too bad you weren't around at the start of the cycle
<troy_s> but you should be able to pick up rather quickly -- as was one of the goals this cycle.
<huwshimi> troy_s: How so?
<troy_s> How so what sorry?
<huwshimi> troy_s: Me not being around at the start of the cycle.
<troy_s> well it would have given much time to incorporate the motif into other designs
<huwshimi> troy_s: Has the default art been
<huwshimi> ... chosen yet?
<troy_s> not yet.
<troy_s> just a gradual refinement of direction
<huwshimi> ok
<troy_s> unfortunately, we had to start the cycle with a very broad design base and really crunch it down as we went along
<troy_s> next cycle we should be able to start with a more refined design specification
<troy_s> sept 7th is the final lock date for all artwork -- then it is merely a matter of polishing
<troy_s> i believe mark is getting shipped a tarball shortly based on frank's selections
<troy_s> and he will ultimately decide.
<troy_s> or throw it all out :)
<troy_s> note that he has been quite clear regarding branding of the wallpaper... although you might get away with a minor brand
<troy_s> if you read the specifications, you can see where and how branding should be incorporated.
<troy_s> in actuality, there was an update to it, and I should probably update the wiki accordingly based on mark's comments from linuxworld.
<huwshimi> yeah. My designs can be ripped to shreds if they want to be used
<BHSPitLappy> hey
<huwshimi> Hi
<BHSPitLappy> troy_s, sept 7th.. applies to sound too?
<troy_s> i would suspect so, as the breakdown listed on the plan page corresponds to the developer breakdown
<troy_s> upon which it was based in paris
<BHSPitLappy> hmm
<BHSPitLappy> then it's probably too late to submit anything new?
<troy_s> i wouldn't count it out
<troy_s> the only thing i would say is that don't be offended if it doesn't get looked at in time
<troy_s> mark is extremely busy, and ubuntu is different from the other 'buntus in that _everything_ that enters ubuntu art-wise _must_ pass through him.
<troy_s> creative wise
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> that means that ultimately he wields the axe
<troy_s> that said, we would love to see the sound department develop further
<troy_s> i know _i_ certainly would.
<BHSPitLappy> well, I would be submitting a prototype
<BHSPitLappy> not even a finished, cleaned up etc
<BHSPitLappy> although it's not like with graphical art... audio is relatively easier to transform from raw recordings into a finished product
<troy_s> they are quite similar actually.
<huwshimi> troy_s: I would like to be involved with the artwork process. I work as a graphic and web designer and audio engineer. I have a Launchpad account etc. what else do I need to do?
<troy_s> but if it is in a production worthy state, i wouldn't hold back.
<BHSPitLappy> troy_s, I mean, say, from a concept sketch, to a nicely made vector image
<troy_s> huwshimi there is plenty to be done, and we need more folks like you.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy are you familiar with how motion pictures are edited and scored?
<BHSPitLappy> troy_s, let's just say I'm 17.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy that's ok.
<BHSPitLappy> and I understand what you're getting at, too...
<troy_s> basically, you provide a 'temp' track that meets the thematics of the piece
<BHSPitLappy> in our case, the prototype is a quick recording of my keyboard... and the finished product would be... a quick recording of my keyboard, with some editing :P
<troy_s> and then write concurrently with it.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> well i certainly say get it on the wiki to start...
<BHSPitLappy> instead if going drastically from a temp track, to an arranger/composer, and getting professional musicians in.
<BHSPitLappy> I have to wait for my friend to get off work, actually
<troy_s> it will serve well for brainstorming purposes at the very least, and who knows what it will trigger.
<BHSPitLappy> need to ask him for permission.
<troy_s> put it on the wiki
<BHSPitLappy> need to ask him for permission.
<troy_s> indeed.
* troy_s brb bathroom.
<BHSPitLappy> since it's inspired off of something he's written
<BHSPitLappy> ah, you scared huwshimi away.
<BHSPitLappy> anybody home??
<BHSPitLappy> hi, huwshimi
<huwshimi> hey
<troy_s> wb huwshimi
<huwshimi> hey troy_s
<troy_s> pyrotica is developing a pretty damn good gdm tutorial in incoming
<troy_s> it is really coming along nicely.
<huwshimi> troy_s:  I just made a gloss version of my splash screen as per request. I will upload a screenshot later.
<troy_s> do you have any metacity / gtk experience huwshimi?
<troy_s> probably a good idea.  sabdfl wanted to keep to some element of gloss.  i underplayed it quite massively based on the overplaying from earlier in the cycle.
<huwshimi> yeah a little metacity. Made a couple of themes a while back. Haven't ventured into gtk
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> the metacity for the default ubuntu look uses the rgb values from the gtkrc
<troy_s> but it is still a bit of a complicated nut to crack.
<huwshimi> ok
<troy_s> it would be nice to palettize the metacity/gtk to the resulting
<troy_s> chosen direction in usplash/lsplash/gdm/wall
<troy_s> so if you could possibly experiment a little, it would be appreciated.
<huwshimi> Ok. Is it the same metacity/gtk themes as dapper (with the modified colours)?
<troy_s> well thus far
<troy_s> nothing regarding that has changed
<troy_s> and again, any changes we wish to implement will require mark's approval
<troy_s> that said, i would think that once he decides on the set
<troy_s> modifying the window border to match the palette probably would happen easily.
<huwshimi> yeah
<troy_s> what i am hoping to do is bump the palette information up to speed
<troy_s> once we get through this checkpoint
<troy_s> so that the offical palette reflects the current state of colour in ubuntu
<huwshimi> yeah. yeah.
<huwshimi> Were you saying that I should take the "ubuntu" off my wallpaper?
<troy_s> huwshimi -- did you get that update to the wiki pages i made via the launchpad membership?
<troy_s> mark has been quite clear regarding branding now (thankfully, as we really had _no_ clue at the onset of the cycle)
<huwshimi> yep. sry I haven't read it all. I'll have a look
<troy_s> three of the four specs (usplash/lsplash/gdm) all have branding.
<troy_s> wall should probably not.
<huwshimi> yeah ok.
<troy_s> again, i am pretty sure that you could break this rule, but that is as per his request
<troy_s> he also recently commented on the branding from linuxexpo
<huwshimi> it's an easy change
<troy_s> again, it isn't my choice... that's marks.
<huwshimi> Ok cool
<BHSPitLappy> is anyone alive here
<huwshimi> Yo.
<BHSPitLappy> what's up?
<BHSPitLappy> want to be first to comment on a login/logout sound I just uploaded to the wiki
<huwshimi> n/much. You?
<huwshimi> ok.
<huwshimi> Link?
<BHSPitLappy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds#head-1e3e5557274b50738b38a7d1a41df69b44b9ff53
<huwshimi> PolySounds?
<huwshimi> is that the one I should download?
<BHSPitLappy> yep
<huwshimi> Hey they are pretty good. I like the length of them.
<BHSPitLappy> thanks, I was afraid they were too long
<huwshimi> nah. particularly the logout on is a nice length
<huwshimi> troy_s: Are you around?
* BHSPitLappy yawns
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/radial-light_softlight.gif
<msikma> (Perhaps something for makers of a new usplash to fool around with.)
<BHSPitLappy> hmm
<BHSPitLappy> ooh, that's a little cooler than the one from before.
<msikma> There are some variations in that directory
<BHSPitLappy> msikma, do you know where I could find inkspace source to a glossy CoF logo?
<BHSPitLappy> err
<BHSPitLappy> inkscape ***
<BHSPitLappy> type-lexia :S
<msikma> Hmmm
<msikma> I'm not sure, I think that some were posted at the propose phase.
<msikma> I just made that thing separately in raster.
<msikma> I could upload a really large version if you like.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<troy_s> msikma nice.
<msikma> troy_s: some tips for that radial light animation? You had ideas on where to take it.
<troy_s> i think it is a great step in the right direction
<troy_s> my only thought would be that you might need the light to orbit more along the trajectory of the logo in order to
<troy_s> work at a smaller res for something say -- like a waiting mouse cursor.
<troy_s> its pretty slick though
<troy_s> also, and i know how you feel about this, but could you offer one up with the curve from the folder / similar to who_'s work jmak?
<troy_s> i quite like it.  hopefully we get the 256 colour extensions into usplash.
<sladen> troy_s: the mouse cursor... that's is an idea and might give people the idea that their machine is "responsive" and " doing somethign"
<msikma> I'd prefer to have a spotlight aimed at the logo that lights up the background, like this: http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/base.png - but that's not doable with 256 colors, unfortunately.
<msikma> That also shows off the shadow nicely.
<troy_s> sladen yes, and i feel it is a subtle twist towards a more stylized and professional branding of the cursors.
<troy_s> hold on msikma let me look
<troy_s> i think the motion is quite interesting in your sample.  could you perhaps offer one with 1) smaller light source (say by about 20-30%)
<troy_s> and perhaps a little more orbital -- slower -- more melodic
<msikma> I'd prefer to not ease the motion in any way in this sample as it's a looping movement, but I could increase the resolution.
<msikma> E.g. more frames
<troy_s> is it difficult to make the light source smaller?
<troy_s> i assume it is an alpha channel mask, no?
<msikma> It's an overlay set as clipping mask to the original logo layer and blended as "soft light"
* msikma first tries a different style of bevel/glossy
<troy_s> ok i must jet out to work msikma
<msikma> See you later
<troy_s> so send me an email okie?
<msikma> Okay
<troy_s> great stuff
<troy_s> also, try a very small version to see how it translates (just came to me) like 128 pix by 128
<msikma> I will likely need to remake the bevel for the occasion since it scales differently.
<troy_s> if we intend on scaling the technique, to maintin consistency, it should at least have the basic elements present at that size. (speed, orbit area, size of light, etc)
<msikma> Smaller sizes probably need a relatively larger bevel.
<troy_s> indeed, but the 'essence' of it would be nice to keep similar
<troy_s> if you follow me.
<troy_s> so just take a peep at the smaller size and see if there is anything 'glaring' that would need adjusting
<troy_s> ok out... or else i'll be late ;)
<msikma> yeah. I wonder if it'll work out.
<msikma> later
<sladen> troy_s: yes, the secret is dithereing
<sladen> troy_s: you can still see the banding on that image.  But with dithering, you can get an apparent gradient smoother than 256 steps
<sladen> troy_s: also you don't want the 'shadow' to be a perfect circle, it should vary in an apparently random way, like plasma
<sladen> troy_s: I do like it though!
<msikma> hee hee. My Wikipedia talk page got vandalized by someone who didn't like me criticizing his unconstructive edits.
<msikma> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMsikma&diff=73937538&oldid=73937367
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/radial-light_linearlight60_cursor.gif <-- waiting cursor
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/radial-light_softlight_cursor.gif <-- another one
<cbx33> hi everyone
<msikma> hi there
<BHSPitLappy> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-06
<troy_s> seveas -- if you manage to get a cairo rounded window test in, it could also apply to the administrative tasks popup when there are updates...
<troy_s> i think it has pretty good bang for buck.
<PseudoPlacebo> BLAH MOTHERFUCKER!
<BHSPitMonkey> heyyy...
<PingunZ> Seveas: New usplash on edgy ( I saw it in the upgrade I'm doing )
<PingunZ> Is it your version ?
<Seveas> my patches are in it
<Seveas> but no theme yet, will finish that today
<PingunZ> Seveas: I'd like to help you making a usplash Howto-make-a-theme guide ..
<PingunZ>  // I'll try to make the guide as easy as possible and post it on the forums ..
<PingunZ> And I'll try to make a theme :)
<kwwii> Seveas: is there any info available on how to make the new uspash?
<kwwii> Seveas: I need to make one for kubuntu as well :-)
<PingunZ> kwwii: I guess we'll have to wait till Seveas 's theme is done so that he can explain us how to use it ..
<PingunZ> kwwii: If you like I could send you the source of the new usplash .. (dunno if its on dapper yet )
<Seveas> kwwii, info will be available today
<PingunZ> Cool :)
<PingunZ> Seveas: Could we apt-get source && build it ? --> try to make a custom theme :)
<kwwii> Seveas: cool
<kwwii> I will also test this stuff on my 3 ppc machines
* PingunZ is editing the source as far as I can ( not far :) )
<troy_s> <PseudoPlacebo> BLAH MOTHERFUCKER!
<troy_s> seveas -- could you wiki a source sample etc?
<Seveas> troy_s, if pople would stop interrupting me, I could finish the patch that includes a sample so everyone can benefit ;)
<troy_s> Laf
<troy_s> eek
<PingunZ> troy_s: What about PseudoPlacebo ?
<PingunZ> hey huwshimi I love the UbuntuEvolve theme ;)
<troy_s> Was just wondering what the language outburst was for.
<huwshimi> PingunZ: Thanks. I've been getting some pretty positive feedback.
<PingunZ> Seveas: I Just rebooted to see your usplash, no big changes ( yet ), only the gardient and the fixed error message
<kwwii> hehe, someone posted the edgy kdm theme on kde-look.org already
<PingunZ> Any ideas how the Ubuntu-Edgy-Default-Wallpaper will look like --> I want to base some custom splashes on it.
<PingunZ> ( For openoffice, gimp, ... )
<PingunZ> I think Polish is what makes a distro feel good
<cbx33> ping Seveas
<Seveas> Dear artwork people,
<Seveas> usplash is finished, will be uploaded shortly
<Seveas> Love, Seveas
<Seveas> </stress>
<kwwii> Seveas: wow, sounds like fun where you are at!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-07
<BHSPitMonkey> hi all
<troy_s> greets folks
<kristog> hello *
<kristog> i wonder if we are in time for add a ubuntu-g-screensaver-theme
<kristog> it could be a easy patch for g-screensaver
<kristog> i have all work here.
<kristog> it's a .desktop file and a .png
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> fschoep
<troy_s> how you doing bor?
<fschoep> Fine, thanks. You?
<kristog> can someone tell me if this is a good idea..FF incoming
<kristog> 12:22 < kristog> hello *
<kristog> 12:22 < kristog> i wonder if we are in time for add a ubuntu-g-screensaver-theme
<kristog> 12:22 < kristog> it could be a easy patch for g-screensaver
<kristog> 12:23 < kristog> i have all work here.
<kristog> 12:23 < kristog> it's a .desktop file and a .png
<PingunZ> Seveas: I do sudo apt-get source usplash for the readme file ?
<sladen> PingunZ: /usr/share/doc/usplash/*
<Seveas> PingunZ, apt-get install usplash-dev
<PingunZ> Ok, I have the readme file but I still need to apt-get source it to edit it ?
<yoshiznit123> hey, i'm making a prototype wallpaper, check it out here http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aia5.png
<yoshiznit123> comments welcome
<PingunZ> ^^ nice :)
<yoshiznit123> thanks, its like "ubuntu decomposed" :-p
<PingunZ> But ermm I'd change the background .. maybe use an image
<PingunZ>  // other color
<yoshiznit123> k
<yoshiznit123> black?
<PingunZ> hmm
<PingunZ> no
<PingunZ> I don't really know what other color
<yoshiznit123> anyways, what's the theme going to be for edgy?
<PingunZ> maybe a gradient ?
<yoshiznit123> hmm, i don't really like gradients that much in wallpapers
<PingunZ> Same old human theme
<yoshiznit123> its too 1980's
<yoshiznit123> aww :-(
<PingunZ> :D
<yoshiznit123> can't we get murrine theme engine or something?
<PingunZ> yoshiznit123: are you in the art-team ?
<yoshiznit123> nope
<PingunZ> Ah, look at wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<yoshiznit123> the thing is, after todays update i looked at the new 'edgy-wallpapers' package
<yoshiznit123> and they had something from warty i think...
<yoshiznit123> but anyways, i have class :-P later
<PingunZ> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming
<PingunZ> ok, laterz
<kwwii> so where does one find info on how to make the new usplash?
<kwwii> I simply cannot find it anywhere
<sladen> kwwii: apt-source usplash-dev
<sladen> apt-get source
<kwwii> sladen: the -dev is what I missed, thanks :-)
<kwwii> sladen: erm, which repo do I need for that?
<sladen> kwwii: do you have src lines enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<kwwii> yepp, I mean, i can get other sources :-)
<kwwii> hehe, new installation, didn't update after adding repo's...sorry for the wasted time
<kwwii> :-(
<sladen> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+package/usplash-dev
<sladen> ah sorted
<kwwii> yeah, thanks anyway
<kwwii> good to have someone technical to ask ;-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-08
<fschoep> troy_s: I'm here for a few more minutes
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> dude, what have you guys got working as far as a usplash goes?
<fschoep> kwwii: not a lot, really
<kwwii> fschoep: then we should stay in touch
<kwwii> now is when we can use cross-desktop understanding
<fschoep> So, I need something for tomorrow :)
<kwwii> I have some pics ready for both
<fschoep> Doesn't matter what it looks like
<kwwii> one with 256 and one with 16 colors
<fschoep> It can be blue / purple
<kwwii> I am unsure exactly how to animate the progress bar
<fschoep> That's something Seveas can explain probably
<kwwii> and the throbber is a funky thing, if the progress bar is already moving, in my opinion
<fschoep> It's still unclear whether or not Edgy will have a proper progress bar or a throbber only
<kwwii> hehe
<Seveas> kwwii, if you have a simple background+foreground image for progress bar, you can use the code from the example theme
<kwwii> until now, it says that we have to use a normal progress bar
<Seveas> edgy still does normal progress bar now
<kwwii> Seveas: yeah, I checked that out now
<kwwii> Seveas: I started with wanting to draw boxes to make the progress bar (6-8 boxes)
<Seveas> kwwii, alternatively, send me the images with a description of what you had in mind and I'll create the code
<kwwii> Seveas: cool, sounds good.
<kwwii> I started to look at the README and code tonight
<kwwii> and then the meeting started
<Seveas> heh
<kwwii> I will look more closely into it tomorrow
<Seveas> it's not too difficult, but assumes a certain amount of C knowledg
<kwwii> I have a *lot* of experience with the older linux bootsplash
<kwwii> so I think I can figure it out
<fschoep> I'll get into it as well tomorrow, shouldn't be too hard
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> I made the syntax of the bootsplash config files, actually
<Seveas> I'll be online here or dennis@jabber.ubuntu-nl.org for questions
<kwwii> Seveas: what would be better: using a bitmap for the progress bar or drawing several boxes?
<Seveas> bitmap is easier
<Seveas> and looks nicer imho
<kwwii> Seveas: hehe, than that makes my job easier
<BHSPitLappy> talking about usplash?
<kwwii> Seveas: I will ping you tomorrow about this stuff
<Seveas> kwwii, ok, but not too early
<Seveas> had 4h sleep last night
<Seveas> and it's 2am
<kwwii> Seveas: don't worry, I am up all day
<kwwii> we are in the same time zone
<kwwii> and I have a son
<kwwii> here is my first 256 color image: http://bootsplash.org/usplash_idea1256.png
<BHSPitLappy> can someone comment on the last entry at wiki.ubuntu.org/UbuntuSounds , it feels lonely :)
<lapo> hey guys this work really is impressive http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/
<lapo> no way to have it in edgy
<lapo> ?
<fschoep> Maybe, I can't promise anything
<lapo> I think it is the most original to date
<BHSPitLappy> I think it looks cool, but... something about it just seems "too" messy to me
<BHSPitLappy> and "messy" + ubuntu's color scheme = gross
<BHSPitLappy> also... wasn't today supposed to be the deadline for art decisions
<fschoep> Feature Freeze, indeed
<yoshiznit123> i like it, except for the gradient background and color, which seems out of place
<yoshiznit123> and it would be cool if the ubuntu logo had the same style (with growing plants and stuff :-))
<Seveas> kwwii, shiny!
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> too much soo, but you get the idea
<kwwii> I was working on making the progress bar in singular boxes
<Seveas> nice first attempt
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> the logo is kinda final
<kwwii> I will remove the glow
<lapo> kwwii: nice one, I'd try to make the gape between the circle and the top right gear more evident
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, good point
<kwwii> I thought that the spacing between all the gears and the circle is a bit too tight
<BHSPitLappy> kwwii, does that progress bar look like the default progress bar widget that ships with kubuntu?
<kwwii> hehe, nope
<kwwii> I guess not
<kwwii> I spent sooo much time trying to make everything the same
<kwwii> and then someone comes along and says that that is not important
<lapo> kwwii: I think the space is ok, I'd use something like a brighter o darker stroke/bevel like on the othe to
<kwwii> lapo: sure, it needs lots of work, it is the result of half an hour
<lapo> cool tho
<troy_s> ping
<BHSPitLappy> pong!
<desrt> troy_s; your gdm splash screen is gorgeous
<desrt> troy_s; just wanted to send some positive feedback your way.  it looks great :)
<BHSPitLappy> link?
<desrt> apt-get install edgy-gdm-themes
<BHSPitLappy> ah.
<BHSPitLappy> I'm gonna install knot 2 after this thing's finished copying, I've already got it burned
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> desrt... thanks for that.  there is going to be massive chitter about the whole thing.  it is a tricky rope to walk in ubuntuland.
<desrt> troy_s; ignore the haters.  it's beautiful :)
<desrt> BHSPitLappy; http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/edgy-ubuntu-theme.png
<desrt> erm
<desrt> http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/edgy-gdm-theme.png rather
<troy_s> No haters.  It is quite a bit of effort to get the artwork 'working' in Ubuntu because we ultimately have sabdfl as a 'client'.
<BHSPitLappy> 404'd!
<BHSPitLappy> very pretty
<troy_s> And _he_ calls the shots -- extremely busy fellow that he is with the snowball of ubuntu.
<BHSPitLappy> desrt, how'd you guess my exact screen resolution ;)
<desrt> BHSPitLappy; *shrug* :p
<BHSPitLappy> hax!
* desrt telefrags your resolution
<BHSPitLappy> I wish someone would comment on my submission to wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds ...
<desrt> troy_s; sabdfl is a crazy :)
<desrt> troy_s; with a fetish for liquid latex
<BHSPitLappy> you mean LaTeX
<troy_s> No, he is quite a bright fellow actually.
<desrt> i mean liquid latex in a bottle :p
<troy_s> do you have a widescreen monitor desrt?
<desrt> troy_s; 1280x800 on my macbook
<BHSPitLappy> same on my dell i6000
<desrt> my macbook is famous.
<troy_s> So it at least scaled properly.  The logo still needs a tweak -- the output cropped the alias off the bottom of the lettering.
<BHSPitLappy> suuure
<troy_s> There could very well be a migration back to monochromatic however.
<BHSPitLappy> I could only tell by looking reeeeeal close, after you said it.
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy, that's good.
<troy_s> laf.
<BHSPitLappy> laf.?
<troy_s> Well it means that it isn't _too_ obvious ... but Frank has been working furiously to hit the deadline
* desrt sifts through flickr
<troy_s> and seveas has been running on zero sleep to make sure usplash gets improved for edgy.
<troy_s> all in all, there has been a _lot_ of hard work by a lot of folks on much stuff that isn't entirely 100% up front visible.
<BHSPitLappy> and it's surely worth it, the new usplash stuff is awesome
<desrt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sigurdga/185576131/in/pool-guadec2006/
<desrt> fame!
<BHSPitLappy> desrt, paint?
<troy_s> How cool is that?
<desrt> windowclingers
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> I was going to say, its those window gels
<BHSPitLappy> lol
<BHSPitLappy> laf.???
<troy_s> its funny.
<troy_s> hence the laf.
<desrt> "laf." is the new LOL
<BHSPitLappy> oh. missed the memo.
<desrt> anyway.  gotta jet.  ciao :)
<BHSPitLappy> adios...
<BHSPitLappy> dead channel?
<pintor> hi
<BHSPitLappy> hi
<PseudoPlacebo> goodnight guys
<BHSPitLappy> night
<bersace> troy_s: hey brother !
<bersace> congrats for the artwork !
<HiddenWolf> Hey guys.
<HiddenWolf> I was wondering, has anyone made an ubuntu-themed screensaver?
<HiddenWolf> Say a variation on the bouncing gnome-foot idea or something?
<klepas> has anyone here worked with ksplash theming much before?
<kwwii> so...guess it is time to start in on the usplash
<kwwii> :-)
<HiddenWolf> The rest of the stack looks really sweet already.
<fschoep> kwwii: just read your e-mail so ping :)
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> hey man
<fschoep> hi
<kwwii> so I guess you have seen the example theme
<fschoep> No, didn't get to that yet - sounds stupid I know ;)
<kwwii> hehe, I built it but it does not work on my eMac
<kwwii> and I don't want to mess up the system on my laptop
<fschoep> I can understand that
<fschoep> I just need *something* to get into Edgy right now
<kwwii> but checking out the pics in the source makes things clear
<fschoep> as you probably gathered yesterday
<kwwii> well, at the least, we could change the bg in the test theme, and the throbber pics
<kwwii> that would get something in now
<fschoep> OK
<fschoep> It's in usplash-dev?
<kwwii> yepp
<fschoep> And it needs to go into usplash-art?
<kwwii> good question, not sure
<fschoep> Wait I think someone said it in yesterday's meeting - Spotlight here we come
<fschoep> Keybuk: remember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages
<fschoep> [01:32am]  Keybuk: not in the usplash package
<kwwii> ;-)
<fschoep> Maybe I should just go and check out the example and report back once I know more
<kwwii> hehe, might be good
<kwwii> but removing the progress bar is not an option if I understood correctly?
<fschoep> The design can change a bit later on I presume, at least - I hope
<fschoep> Where did you read that?
<kwwii> I thought it was in a mail
<kwwii> one second
<HiddenWolf> at the very least it's not a good idea
<HiddenWolf> people get nervous when they don't see progress indication during boot
<HiddenWolf> I sure as hell do.
<fschoep> OK sure, but replacing the progress bar with an animating throbber would work, no?
<fschoep> Like WIndows and Mac OS X do?
<cbx33> fschoep: hi
<fschoep> Real progress indication is going away for Edgy (or +1) anyway
<fschoep> cbx33: good to to you, sir
<HiddenWolf> probably, yes. :)
<cbx33> ow are you fschoep
<fschoep> cbx33: fine, thanks, you?
<kwwii> fschoep: I think I misunderstood that part
<cbx33> yeh
<fschoep> cbx33: noticed your sounds are in since yesterday?
<fschoep> cbx33: I've been told people quite like them
<cbx33> yeh me too
<cbx33> :D:D
<fschoep> ;)
<fschoep> kwwii: do you know if boot messages are still shown?
<kwwii> fschoep: I think so
<fschoep> So there still needs to be an area for that?
<fschoep> I really thought Keybuk was on the ball to remove those but I couldn't really make anything out of his update yesterdat evening so I very well might be wrong
<fschoep> yesterday*
* kwwii looks into the theme file
<kwwii> it appears to be shown in the example theme
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> Maybe it *is* a better idea for me to check the code first :)
<fschoep> Do we meet later today kwwii ?
<kwwii> fschoep: yes, please, if you have time
<fschoep> OK, what time are you on?
<fschoep> I think I can squeeze into IRC from 18.00'ish to 20.30'ish
<kwwii> cool, sounds good
<fschoep> OK, my main priority today is get *something* in, after that we can work on designing something together
<kwwii> excellent, me too
<fschoep> OK, nice - see you this evening hopefully! Possibly even earlier than that,
<kwwii> see you later :-)
<fschoep> OK, thanks!
<Seveas> kwwii, the example theme just showcases possibilities. But upstart doesn't have to use all that usplash has to offer. If you want to play safe, implement it all and scott can choose what he needs.
<Seveas> troy_s, looking at gnome-session code, I really don't think a cairo based approach is the right thing to do for a shaped window. I'll look at the gnome splash screen code and try to do a similar thing for the logout window (and maybe even for the gksu window), but that's for edgy+1
<kwwii> Seveas: the problem with that idea is that it seriously limits the art side of things
<Seveas> kwwii, why?
<kwwii> Seveas: making a picture that looks good even though you cut out certain pieces just doesn't work very often
<Seveas> ah, right
<kwwii> well, it is possible to get the greatest common denominator effect...but that is not ideal
<Seveas> then the art team has to summon sabdfl and kamion and make them decide what they want
<Seveas> s/kamion/keybuk/
<kwwii> at first, we are going to put something in based on the example theme, then when we slowly move forward with specific ideas and changes
<kwwii> Seveas: yeah, that is kinda what I was thinking last night at the meeting
<Seveas> I liked imbrandons approach
<Seveas> btw: for edgy+1 I have a few more usplash ideas (more drawing primitives, better text support) and I'll implement it early in the cycle
<kwwii> Seveas: cool, sounds good
<fschoep> Seveas: do you have a minute?
<fschoep> kwwii: I'm here
<Seveas> fschoep, yes
<fschoep> Great, it's about usplash ;)
<kwwii> fschoep:
<kwwii> fschoep: me too
<fschoep> OK, nice
<fschoep> Seveas: I need to get *something* packaged before tonight
<fschoep> Seveas: can you help me out?
<Seveas> sure
<fschoep> Seveas: can you also get it into Edgy?
<fschoep> Just asking as much as I want ;)
<Seveas> I can package it for you if that's what you mean
<fschoep> Yes
<fschoep> Seveas: I just need a random usplash image for now
<Seveas> fschoep, easiest thing is to take the example theme from usplash-dev
<fschoep> Seveas: I have an extremely boring one at hand
<kwwii> fschoep: are we agreed that both ubuntu and kubuntu will have the same basic theme, only with different pics?
<fschoep> kwwii: I think so, as long as "ours" fits into the rest of "our" theme ;)
<kwwii> fschoep: exactly :-)
<Seveas> fschoep, dennis@ubuntu.com would welcome it
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, thanks - I'll send it in a minute
<Seveas> is it .xcf/.svg?
<kwwii> Seveas: could we put both the kubuntu and ubuntu stuff in one theme?
<fschoep> Seveas: XCF
<Seveas> kwwii, no
<fschoep> Seveas: both kwwii and I need to get at least *some* picture into Edgy today to please the FF people
<kwwii> Seveas: do you think he'd package mine too then? :-)
<fschoep> Seveas: if you can help me and kwwii out, you'll get two beers next time we meet ;)
<Seveas> kwwii, you know the address
<Seveas> fschoep, where in NL do you live? 
<fschoep> Seveas: Zeeland
<Seveas> fschoep, hmm, never been there
<fschoep> Seveas: you do'
<fschoep> -
<fschoep> don't want to go there
<kwwii> Seveas: which part of europe do you live in?
<fschoep> it's flat, empty and about ten people per square mile
<Seveas> kwwii, NL
<Seveas> fschoep, I live in lelystad
<kwwii> hehe, I am surrounded by dutchmen
<Seveas> 60000 people surronded by nothingness
<fschoep> Hehe ;)
<fschoep> kwwii: sometimes I feel Ze Germanz are taking over Ubuntu with your posse :)
<fschoep> j/k of course
<fschoep> But on the topic of work, Seveas if I send you a picture (large resolution) can you get it into Edgy tonight?
<Seveas> yes
<fschoep> That would be so awesome
<PingunZ> Hey all :)
<Seveas> does it include a picture of a progress bar?
<fschoep> Hey PingunZ how you doing?
<PingunZ> Fine, just finished the Blubuntu GDM
<fschoep> Seveas: Not sure, I don't think so - can you use your example one?
<Seveas> of course
<fschoep> PingunZ: I saw it, looking good
<Seveas> but it won't fit the kubuntu theme
<PingunZ> Thanks fschoep :)
<Seveas> damnit
<Seveas> I forgot again
<fschoep> Seveas: kwwii: we'll work on getting them in line later on, right now we need to please the FF people ;)
<Seveas> what is the lowest common widescreen resolution?
<PingunZ> Seveas: Could you repeat the commands to use your custom usplash theme ? -> I had an X crash while trying it ;)
<fschoep> 1280x800?
<kwwii> probably
<Seveas> <Seveas> @calc 1280/16*9
<Seveas> <Ubugtu> 720
<Seveas> 1280x720
<kwwii> well, you also have 16:10 on lots of machines
<fschoep> I honestly don't know anyone with that screen resolution?
* PingunZ neither
<fschoep> 16:10 is more common I think (props kwwii)
<kwwii> hehe, the computer I am working on has it
<Seveas> ok, 16:10
<fschoep> Mine as well (macbook)
<Seveas> now scale that to a 4:3 resolution
<Seveas> meh, I am calculating the wrong way
<PingunZ> @calc 1280/16*12
<PingunZ> Bah, I Shut up :p
<fschoep> PingunZ: no magic?
<PingunZ> @calc 1280/16*12
<Ubugtu> 960
<PingunZ> -_-
<fschoep> Nice trick
<Seveas> @calc 1024/16*9
<Ubugtu> 576
<Seveas> hmm
<fschoep> @calc 1024/16*10
<Ubugtu> 640
<Seveas> @calc 768/9*16
<Ubugtu> 1365.33333333
<PingunZ> Seveas: Math freak ? :)
<Seveas> so... 1365x768 scaled to 1024x768 should be nice on widescreen
<fschoep> You know what, that Ubugtu guy can sure calculate things fast.
<PingunZ> rofl fschoep that's a bash.org one
<fschoep> Probably ;)
<PingunZ> You weren't serious right ?
<fschoep> Seveas: my "picture" is one color with the logo on it, that's all.
<fschoep> PingunZ: no
<Seveas> kwwii, and yours?
<PingunZ> Seveas: I think you missed my question above :: How can I use your custom-usplash-theme ( I had an X crash when you explained me yesterday ) ?
<kwwii> here is my idea: http://bootsplash.org/usplash_idea1a.png
<Seveas> PingunZ, now is not the time -- work to do
<Seveas> I have 4.5 hours to create 6 usplash themes
<kwwii> hehe
<PingunZ> Ohw
<PingunZ> Well, tell me in 5 hours then ;)
<PingunZ> If you need any help that doesn't require intelligence I'd like to help :)
<Seveas> kwwii, could you send that to me as xcf, (btw, the contrast between progressbar and its background is too small)
<kwwii> I made mine as an SVG...should I send the png files (with the same palette, of course)
<kwwii> Seveas: yeah, that is what I thought too
<Seveas> kwwii, if you send pngs, I need these:
<Seveas> * Full progressbar
<Seveas> * Empty one
<PingunZ> kwwii: That mockup with a scrolling logo would be sick :)
<Seveas> * 800x600 rendering of image without progressbar
<Seveas> * 1024x768 rendering
<kwwii> Seveas: I have versions of all the pics in the example-theme file
<Seveas> * 1365x768 rendering, preferably even scaled to 1024x768 (NOT with imagemagick)
<kwwii> including the cropped one
<fschoep> Seveas: I sent you the "design"
<kwwii> Seveas: cool, I'll send you them asap
<Seveas> the scaled one in the example is bad
<Seveas> fschoep, great
<kwwii> hehe, we had quite a discussion about scaling last time around
<fschoep> kwwii: tell me about it ;)
<kristog> 4/wc
<Seveas> fschoep, I need the xcf of the theme or the rendering in the 3 resolutions I asked
<fschoep> Seveas: oh dear, can't you clip the canvas?
<fschoep> Seveas: I can't imagine an XCF adding a lot more data, but maybe I'm wrong
<Seveas> fschoep, what's the resolution of the .png (too lazy to look) ;)
<fschoep> Let me determine
<fschoep> 1600 by 1200 px
<Seveas> that'll do
<bersace> youpi ! i have dputed my first package to revu :D
<Seveas> btw: shouldn't there be a xubuntu splash too??
<fschoep> bersace: !
<fschoep> Seveas: that is a good question, it's not my task to get that one in right now
<fschoep> Seveas: there are also no Xubuntu developers in the weekly meeting
<PingunZ> And what about Edubuntu ?
<Seveas> I think that if we get ubuntu and kubuntu in, edubuntu and xubuntu can be accepted post-freeze
<fschoep> Seveas: indeed
<fschoep> Seveas: I think, but it's only thinking, that Ubuntu and Kubuntu are the more rigidly controlled distro's.
<Seveas> ok, palette created, now to create the images
<kwwii> Seveas: sending you pics now
<PingunZ> -- Me gets exited for the result --
<PingunZ> Anything I can do to help ? -- Not requiring a lot of skills ..
<fschoep> PingunZ: high contrast icons ;)
<PingunZ> rofl fschoep, sorry I hate to make icons ..
<PingunZ> I listed them for you but I can't make icons ..
<fschoep> PingunZ: is there a reason for it?
<fschoep> I've got about five minutes before I need to run elsewhere, anyone want to discuss something right now?
<PingunZ> fschoep: I'm not good in small pictures .. :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: I see, it's no problem I think bersace is on the ball
<bersace> fschoep: say what ?
<PingunZ> bersace: Are you the high-contrast icon designer ?
<fschoep> bersace: we were talking about the highcon icons
<bersace> ah yes
<fschoep> bersace: I said to PingunZ you were doing that a bit
<bersace> yep
<PingunZ> NIce :)
<fschoep> bersace: going well?
<bersace> but i've stopped the work
<fschoep> oh
<bersace> for some days
<fschoep> Phew, no problem ;)
<fschoep> Is the contact with Henrik going well?
<bersace> (university registration, gnomescan uplaod to universe, gnome 2.18 roadmap, etc.)
<bersace> in fact, the laptop i used to do the icon will come back this evening (in few minutes)
<fschoep> I see :)
<bersace> then i'll be able to get back all to icons and work on it again :P
<fschoep> Good, good, keep it up :)
<bersace> I would like to have a SVN at fd.o for a cross desktop highcon icon set
<fschoep> That sounds terrific, how did the KDE guys react?
<bersace> quite well :)
<bersace> luckly :P
<fschoep> Do I need to pitch in, or can Henrik help out maybe?
<fschoep> Something like high contrast Tango sounds awesome.
<bersace> yep
<bersace> i would like to do something useful and reusable
<bersace> i'll have to dive into icon-naming-utils and such
<fschoep> Indeed, that's a great goal to achieve
<bersace> yep
<fschoep> Alright, I got to go, it's been nice talking to you. Seveas if you need something to get the job done, mail / ping me or kwwii and we'll help you out immediately.
<fschoep> Thanks a lot again for your time.
<Seveas> fschoep, it should be done in a fw minutes
<fschoep> OK, great!
<PingunZ> Cool, you're talking about Usplash themes right ?
<PingunZ> Can I test them ??? :)
<fschoep> See you soon all
<PingunZ> laterz fschoep :)
<fschoep> cu :)
* kwwii ate dinner....re
<PingunZ> Seveas: How is the usplash going ? ( You said it would be done in a few minutes, a few minutes ago  :) )
<Seveas> PingunZ, I discovered a bug in usplash, so I'm fixing that first
<PingunZ> Nice :)
<_ion> Btw, now that gnome-background-properties supports "Style: Zoom", isn't the widescreen version of the Ubuntu background image redundant? Just set the default style for "Ubuntu Lagoon" as "Zoom", and it will work on every screen as expected.
<_ion> That also makes it work nicely on a dualscreen setup.
<_ion> In case anyone wonders what "Style: Zoom" does: on a 16:9 screen (or 8:3, as in my setup) it crops a 4:3 image from the top and the bottom so that it fits the screen's aspect ratio exactly.
<Seveas> ok bug fixed
<PingunZ> NIce Seveas :)
<PingunZ> Argh, I have the too-long-shift-pressing bug :)
<_ion> I posted this as a comment to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edgy-wallpapers/+bug/45385
<PingunZ> Ok _ion
<Seveas> kwwii, ubuntu splash done
<Seveas> now for yours ;)
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> I sent you pics with the same indexed colors (unless I screwed up)
<PingunZ> Seveas: Is it the theme you're talking about // can I test it ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, you can't test it
<PingunZ> ='(
<Seveas> right now it will build but not install
<Seveas> which is intentional
<Seveas> it needs a fixed usplash
<PingunZ> Ok, well if I can help testing tell me :)
<Seveas> otherwise it'll segfault
<Seveas> no need for testing
<PingunZ> Ah, well I just want to help :)
<PingunZ> Is there any way to shrink a .svg's ?
<_ion> What do you mean by shrink?
<PingunZ> The size
<kwwii> PingunZ: yes, open it in inkscape and then resize it
<PingunZ> So it loads quicker --> Svg
<PingunZ> *--> GDM
<kwwii> hehe, the size of it has nothing to do with the loading time
<kwwii> the file size matters
<PingunZ> I meant that
<_ion> gzip it. :-)
<kwwii> click on "clear defs" in the file menu
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<kwwii> gzipping it means it takes longer to load
<kwwii> removing the extra definitions might help a bit
<kwwii> try to use primitives whenever possible
<kwwii> paths take up space
<kwwii> AI actually writes much smaller paths
<kwwii> so the file size is much smaller
<kwwii> it creates the same look with fewer nodes
<PingunZ> kwwii: Does the page size influence the file size ?
<kwwii> PingunZ: nope
<PingunZ> Ah ok
<PingunZ> So I just click vacuum defs
<PingunZ> and that's it ?
<kwwii> yep
<kwwii> remove any unused objects and get rid of any layers
<PingunZ> Done that :)
<PingunZ> Its for the blubuntu gdm btw ;)
<kwwii> cool :-)
<kwwii> if you use the same path twice link it from the orig instead of copying and pasting it (but I admit that I am too lazy to do that)
<PingunZ> kwwii: you mean in the xml code of the GDM ?
<kwwii> PingunZ: nope, I mean in the SVG itself
<PingunZ> Oh, sorry :)
<PingunZ> Bah, it loads quick enough now
<PingunZ> I stripped the .xml file, user a .jpg as background, ..
<PingunZ> kwwii: You designed the Suse GDM right ? It only has a 800*600 .jpg picture as background
<kwwii> PingunZ: yes, I made it, but no it does not only have that size of image
<Seveas> kwwii, kubuntu theme finished too
<Seveas> now what?
<kwwii> Seveas: take a break! have a beer on me :-)
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> I though it had to go in today ;)
<kwwii> Seveas: thanks so much for taking care of this stuff...it would have taken me 3 times as long
<Seveas> kwwii, more
<Seveas> you wouldn't have succeeded
<Seveas> but that's my fault
<Seveas> There was a bug in usplash, and one in the example theme
<PingunZ> Seveas: Can I use/test it now ? :P
<Seveas> PingunZ, neither
<Seveas> they will make current usplash segfault
<PingunZ> When will I ba able to ?
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> then I really am lucky ;-)
<Seveas> I'm waiting for a core-dev to upload a fixed usplash
<PingunZ> Oh
<PingunZ> What's the ETA for it to be ready ?
<Seveas> the fix is there
<Seveas> just needs to be uploaded
<PingunZ> Yay, that doesn't take long I hope :)
<PingunZ> So then we will have it in the repo's and be able to use it ?? :)
<Seveas> kwwii, pushed some people around, uploads should happen soon
<PingunZ> Then I can just upgrade ? :)
<PingunZ> Any screenshots Seveas ?
<kwwii> Seveas: excellent!
<Seveas> PingunZ, i don't have any vm's lying around for that
<Seveas> scary though, I had a kubuntu usplash for a while
<Seveas> Even though I really don't like kde at all
<kwwii> :p
<PingunZ> Seveas: The background image ?
<kwwii> lol
* PingunZ doesn't like kde either
* kwwii either
<kwwii> I LOVE IT!!!
<PingunZ> kwwii: you don't like gnome then ?
<kwwii> PingunZ: no, I have nothing against gnome
<PingunZ> I always get lost in kde :)
<kwwii> heck, many of the programs I use are gtk :-)
<PingunZ> Konquerror -> Eww :)
<kwwii> konqueror is my favorite part
<PingunZ> ^^
<kwwii> since it can do everything
<kwwii> it is like a swiss arm knife of browsing
<PingunZ> rofl
<kwwii> I have one window open with file browsing tabs, websites in tabs, several ftp connections in tabs, and SVN in tabs
<PingunZ> Seveas: Perhaps now you have the time to tell me how to use you custom usplash theme -> the one from the video.
<kwwii> open the embeded terminal too and you are in business
<Seveas> PingunZ, that probably won't work anymore
<kwwii> heck with konqueror you almost do not need the rest of kde anymore :p
<PingunZ> Seveas: Too bad, I liked the look :)
<PingunZ> kwwii: If you type in ' google ' in konquerror, does it automatically links to google.com ?
<kwwii> PingunZ: type "gg: searchphrase"
<kwwii> in kubuntu, if you only type a phrase in it will use locate:
<kwwii> which is a local search, naturally
<PingunZ> Ah ok
<PingunZ> Is konquerror as quick as FF ?
<kwwii> to be honest, I never tested the difference
<kwwii> I use firefox for certain pages that require it specifically
<PingunZ> ping me when its uploaded ;)
<fschoep> Hi guys
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<fschoep> kwwii: ping
<fschoep> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> fschoep, themes are uploaded
<fschoep> Godlike, thanks!
<fschoep> Which package are they in?
<Seveas> usplash-theme-ubuntu and kubuntu-default-settings
<Seveas> the formr needs NEW massaging, so won't appear right now
<kwwii> fschoep: pong
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, but it will make it into Edgy later on?
<fschoep> kwwii: Hi, everything OK for your usplash?
<Seveas> yes, as soon as kamion/keybuk make it go through
<kwwii> fschoep: although I have never seen it in action, I hope so :-)
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, great - that's exactly what I needed
<Seveas> (Feel free to poke them for it)
<fschoep> Seveas: how can I ever pay my gratitude?
<Seveas> kwwii, I've seen it, it needs work on the tekt colors but that's all
<Seveas> fschoep, you promised me a beer
<fschoep> True, but is that enough?
<Seveas> fschoep, come to utrecht next saturday for software freedom day
<Seveas> yes, a beer will do -- it wasn't that hard
<fschoep> It's in?
<fschoep> Utrecht duh
<fschoep> It's too late for me 8)
<Seveas> 5 minutes from utrecht overvecht station
<Seveas> from 12 to 16
<Seveas> I'll be showcasing usplash ;)
<kwwii> fschoep: the final pic (before cutting, paletting) is http://bootsplash.org/usplash_idea1-640.png
<fschoep> Sounds doable, but I'm not sure on my schedule
<fschoep> kwwii: looking good
<fschoep> Seveas: do you have a link to the schedule?
<Seveas> there is no real schedule
<Seveas> 1 room is nllgg meting
<Seveas> 1 room is Ubuntu people
<fschoep> I see, which building is it in?
<Seveas> will have to look that up 
<Seveas> Liefland College
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> If I can go, I'll be there
<fschoep> Seveas: thanks for pointing that out, I hope I can be there
<Seveas> \o/
<PingunZ> Eek, is the usplash done ?
<PingunZ> and uploaded ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: seems like it, yes
<fschoep> It's a test image
<fschoep> to replace the test image
<PingunZ> Can I just install it in edgy ? --> What should I do ?
<fschoep> Ask Seveas, he'll tell you if you ask nicely
<PingunZ>  // what repo
<PingunZ> Mister Seveas, How can I install your new beautiful usplash theme in Ubuntu Edgy ? :)
<Seveas> PingunZ, unly for kubuntu and xubuntu you can use it
<Seveas> by simply upgrading
<Seveas> the ubuntu theme needs archive maintainer love
<PingunZ> :'(
<kwwii> Seveas: I wouldn't mind trying it again on my ppc box
<PingunZ> Can I download the kubuntu theme ? :)
<kwwii> I wonder if there is more that I need to do...it never worked since installation
<Seveas> apt-get install kubuntu-default-settings
<kwwii> edgy installation I mean
<Seveas> kwwii, usplash on ppc has been broken for a long time
<Seveas> but should be fixed now
<kwwii> I will try it out
<kwwii> it cannot be worse than it is :-)
<fschoep> Hey guys, it's been a good day today but I'm thinking about going to sleep, so goodnight everyone.
<PingunZ> 'night fschoep
<fschoep> Thanks, see you all (and thanks again Seveas :) )
<PingunZ> I'm rebooting, to see the usplash theme :D
<kwwii> funny, it sees when updating that I have changed my kdm xml file and does not change it, but it replaces the pics I made with the old ones
<kwwii> rebooting...brb
<PingunZ> Seveas: Err, I apt-get installed kubuntu-default-settings, I rebooted and I still saw the old usplash
<Seveas> PingunZ, hmm dpkg -l usplash kubuntu-default-settings
<PingunZ> ii  kubuntu-defaul 6.10-28        Default settings and artwork for the Kubuntu
<PingunZ> ii  usplash        0.4-20         Userspace bootsplash utility
<Seveas> those are old versions
<Seveas> probably the new ones are waiting to be built and installed into the archive
<Seveas> so be patient 
<PingunZ> :'( I installed kubuntu for nothing :)
<PingunZ> Bah, I'm going to sleep then
<PingunZ> Bye all
<kwwii> bye
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> yeah, mine still has the same mknode errors followed by the incompatible theme message
<kwwii> I'll try it again tomorrow morning :-)
<kwwii> something to look forward too
<kwwii> s/too/to
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-09
<troy_s> ping
<BHSPitMonkey> hi all
<bersace> troy_s: hi brother !
<PingunZ> ping Seveas: I upgraded this morning, no new usplash yet ?
* PingunZ pokes Seveas  *poke* *poke*
<PingunZ> Is the ubuntu-usplash theme uploaded // can we start using it // how ?
<Seveas> yes it is uploaded
<Seveas> don't know about build status yet
<PingunZ> What package should I download , once its in the repo's
<troy_s> ping
<Chipzz> people, no offense meant, but the new gnome splash screen totally sucks
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> it is in a state of flux
<Chipzz> 17:22 < Chipzz> and some people do have other backgrounds than the standard brown, so it is *NOT* ok to have semi-anti-aliassed corners half  part of the splash
<Chipzz> I have a blue background, and the brown corners are like a sore
<troy_s> Well let's see...
<troy_s> Changing the splash is as easy as changing the wallpaper.
<troy_s> 2) It is completely unpolished, so expect once things get more settled, those little details will be repaired.
<troy_s> It's not a terribly easy item.
<Chipzz> luckily I don't reboot very often ;)
<troy_s> Ditto.
<Chipzz> the old splash didn't have the problem with the corners?
<troy_s> No,
<troy_s> the problem is that the source images for the dump were in 8 bit alpha
<troy_s> and gdm splashes only support 1 bit alpha
<troy_s> so that all needs to be trimmed.
<troy_s> etc.
<_ion> It would be nice if all the occurances of the word "ubuntu" were e.g. white instead of black against a darkish brown background.
<troy_s> _ion indeed, but to maintain consistency with the previous versions, black was mandated.
<Chipzz> ok, so
<troy_s> Chipzz so to sort out the corners is a simple adjustment.
<Chipzz> is the default gnome splash still shipped anywhere?
<troy_s> It is easy enough to pull up.
<Chipzz> I think that will work better with my background anyway :)
<_ion> /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-smooth.png *rules*, and it's white. :-)
<troy_s> let me look _ion
<PingunZ> -- Talking about splashes, I need someone to create a basic background image for splashes. ( like gnome, openoffice, screem, gimp, xara,... ). I'll do the text and some logo's. I just need a background image.
<troy_s> _ion, do you have a link to it?
<_ion> troy: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/ubuntu-smooth
<PingunZ> Eek, is that the current splash ?
<_ion> No.
<troy_s> PingunZ - no
<PingunZ> Ah ok :)
<Chipzz> hrrm damn
<troy_s> anyways, the lsplash will see the most adjustment in the near future
<Chipzz> I thought this was gonna be the new gnome (upstream) splash
<Chipzz> http://oskuro.net/blogpics/gnome-two-sixteen.jpg
<Chipzz> or something alike
<PingunZ> Chipzz: I was in the team who made that splash
<troy_s> don't know much about upstream
<troy_s> but it doesn't apply to ubuntu
<Chipzz> PingunZ: the ubuntu splash or the upstream splash?
<PingunZ> Chipzz: There is a bigger and better version if want so ?
<Chipzz> PingunZ: is that actually a splash screen, or more some kind of banner?
<PingunZ> gnome.org splash -> two-point-sixteen
<troy_s> chipzz so hang in there re the splash.
<PingunZ> err .. its a banner ;)
<Chipzz> PingunZ: and there is no splash screen variant I presume? :S
<PingunZ> Chipzz: http://www.gnome.org/img/flash/two-sixteen.png
<PingunZ> I'll see if I can find the source images
<Chipzz> PingunZ: to be usable as a splash screen I guess it would need to be wider and taller too
<PingunZ> Chipzz: Its large enough
<Chipzz> taller to accomodate space for the icons of metacity and gnome-panel etc
<Chipzz> PingunZ: btw, I really your work on that - great job! :)
<troy_s> blue is a little dated no?
<PingunZ> Chipzz: I didn't make it, I just helped making it
<troy_s> aqua, xp, etc.
<PingunZ> Chipzz: I can't find the source images, sorry ..
<Chipzz> troy_s: I have the gnome glassfoot background image, and gdm theme, so that would work perfect for me :)
<PingunZ> But feel free to edit the image and make a splash of it ;)
<Chipzz> alas, I'm really bad with graphics ; and without the gimp source files, I really doubt I could make much of it :/
<troy_s> chipzz gnome-look probably has a plethora of images in blue for you.
<Chipzz> yeah
<troy_s> greetings n7cee
<Chipzz> PingunZ: do you know anyone who might have them?
<n7cee> hello
<PingunZ> Chipzz: Try gnome-look.org
<PingunZ> or you could join Gimpnet -> #marketing
<PingunZ> and ask for the source files
<PingunZ> Or gimpnet -> #gnome-art
<troy_s> the channel has been busier of late.
<PingunZ> hey n7cee
<PingunZ> troy_s: This channel ? Indeed :)
<PingunZ> That's good right ?
<troy_s> one would think.
<PingunZ> troy_s: What do you mean ? You prefer this channel to be more silent ?
<troy_s> no, i think it is great that more people have been popping by.
<PingunZ> Ah ;) I didn't understand you :)
<PingunZ> Btw, Do you know if the ubuntu-usplash-theme is in the repo's yet ?
<troy_s> which one
<Chipzz> anyway,
* Chipzz gone again
<PingunZ> troy_s: wasn't se veas ( don't want to ping him ) working on it yesterday ?
<troy_s> oh yes...
<troy_s> frank got him the _bare_ minimum
<troy_s> but it will take some dev time
<troy_s> sev i believe was integrating it.
<troy_s> but it is far from complete.
<PingunZ> Ph, I see
<PingunZ> *Oh
<PingunZ> Well, I'm out, latez
<PingunZ> *laterz
<BHSPitMonkey> hi hi
<cbx33> Does usplash have completed artwork yet?
<cbx33> or is it still the testing screen
<BHSPitMonkey> clarify what you mean?
<cbx33> well, my usplash is the edgy eft starting screen
<troy_s> cbx33 testing still.
<PingunZ> Hey, I made some splashes : http://pingunz.deviantart.com/
<cbx33> kwwii is there actually a proper usplash artwork done yet?
<kwwii> cbx33: yes, but we will still be working on improving it
<kwwii> we have only yesterday included the first stuff
<cbx33> hmmm...
<cbx33> why am I not seeing any proper usplash images?
<kwwii> cbx33: it is broken on my machine too, no idea why
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<kwwii> in fact, I cannot find anyone who has it working
<cbx33> i just wanted to see waht is looked like
<cbx33> so I can make the edubuntu ones look alike
<kwwii> both ubuntu and kubuntu are based on the example theme now
<cbx33> is that in the usplash-dev file?
<cbx33> package
<kwwii> yepp
<cbx33> ok I'll grab that
<cbx33> but as far as you know usplash is broken?
<kwwii> well, as I said, I cannot find anyone who has it working
<kwwii> I have not seen it yet, only put in some pis and hoped for the best :-)
<kwwii> s/pis/pics
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> we had a bit of a hiccup on our artwork side
<kwwii> how so?
<cbx33> well everyone said they were interested in helping scarpered
<cbx33> and one of our team who we thought had done some work
<cbx33> hadn't had time to do any
<cbx33> so we're a little behind
<cbx33> I have a lot of it done
<cbx33> still working away
<cbx33> tomorrow will be "produce" day
<cbx33> ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I know that feeling
<cbx33> heheh
<troy_s> greets boys
<cbx33> how did kubuntu art go this release?#
<cbx33> hi troy_s
<cbx33> like the final sounds?
<kwwii> hey man
<troy_s> hey ken, how goes it?
<troy_s> cbx33 yes... i think they are a step in the right direction
<troy_s> it is a tricky line to walk between organic and too cultural feeling
<kwwii> good troy, glad to have at least a basic version of all the artwork done by feature freeze ;-)
<troy_s> the latter risks cliches and such.
<troy_s> kwwii yes indeed.
<kwwii> I can take a nice wieekend off without doing too much
<troy_s> yeah i was a little upset that a rather kludged lsplash got in, but my time can only come on the weekends currently.
<kwwii> of course, I spent the day buying 400Euros in lamps and drilling holes in my walls to install them :-)
<troy_s> cbx33 how goes edubuntu artwork?
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> how come?
<kwwii> my wife wanted new lighting
<troy_s> cbx33 it sounded a little chaotic last thing i heard about it.
<troy_s> well i guess that about says it doesn't it kwwii?  lol
<kwwii> hehe, no shit :-)
<cbx33> edubuntu artwork is def getting there
<troy_s> kwwii any word on the aic for edgy+1 yet?
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP1.jpg
<troy_s> thanks cbx33 i was just asking it as you typed it.
<kwwii> troy_s: nope, I guess that will be figured out in california in november
<cbx33> that's an idea for the higher education wallpaper
<cbx33> we have three wallpapers in our artwork pacakge
<troy_s> cbx33 do you have a study of all the work thus far?
<troy_s> or is it scattered?
<cbx33> higher_ed, school, and lower school
<cbx33> it is pretty scatter
<cbx33> read above :(
<troy_s> is there a study available for each with a screenshot?
<cbx33> we had big problems
<troy_s> yes... too bad more folks from edubuntu didn't step in line.
<cbx33> yeh
<troy_s> ubuntu and kubuntu were pretty on sched
<cbx33> so Lisa and I are working last minute
<cbx33> troy_s nice ;)
<troy_s> of course, the former needs to wait umpteen hours for sabdfl email and such...
<troy_s> cbx33 i hope it works out for edubuntu, it really is a great project and a harmonious look could greatly aid its adoption.
<troy_s> kwwii calif?  uck.
<BHSPitMonkey> hi all
<troy_s> hello BHSPitMonkey - how are you?
<cbx33> of course we'll get there ;)
<troy_s> kwwii i think mark is already pondering the aic position now.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I can imagine so
<troy_s> i think i am going to buy a 22 inch widescreen monitor
<troy_s> and drop my tools and such onto the 17
<kwwii> hehe, I thought about the same thing today
<troy_s> dual heading for xara and such
<troy_s> inkscape has blur too... did you hear about that yet kwwii?
<troy_s> slider in the fill dialog
<BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, good, thanks
<kwwii> the thing is this: all the different buntus have different teams and different needs, so having one aic that does everything for all fo them is perhaps a bit unrealistic
<kwwii> troy_s: actually, I built the newest stuff and saw that
<troy_s> the rendering in the toolshed is a little uck, but
<BHSPitMonkey> heh, that higher education wallpaper has source code built right in :)
<BHSPitMonkey> guess it's gpl friendly
<troy_s> laf
<cbx33> hehehe
<kwwii> it made me look twice when I saw the slider
<troy_s> kwwii is that his plan?
<cbx33> BHSPitMonkeymy source code ;)
<troy_s> i don't think that is his plan by any stretch.
<kwwii> troy_s: no, it is just my opinion
<troy_s> i think he intends to appoint an AiC for every release to get folks familiar with the system
<troy_s> of course, the aic for ubuntu is _completely_ different than that of the others.
<kwwii> yeah, that is what he said....but I think that that position is more for ubuntu than anything else
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> The AiC?
<kwwii> I think he can hire one aic for ubuntu and then hire artists for his other needs
<troy_s> The aic i believe he wants to continue for at least both.
<troy_s> not 100% sure, but pretty close to it.
<kwwii> well, for instance, if the aic did both, who would do the artwork for kubuntu?
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> i think his goal was to have an aic for each.
<kwwii> ahhhh
<kwwii> I did not realize that
<cbx33> would make sense
<troy_s> as in, ubu aic and kubu aic just like this cycle.
<cbx33> and edu get one....probably not
<troy_s> i believe he also has a longer term goal to establish a higher
<kwwii> from what I understood in paris, it will be one person for all, and perhaps an artist or two on top
<troy_s> level
<kwwii> well, not on top, but below .-9
<kwwii> yeah, that is what I meant
<troy_s> there will eventually be someone above the aic's it sounds like, but right now i think the idea is to get infrastructure in place
<troy_s> need to get a good set of design docs out there.
<cbx33> a "paid" aic would be better
<cbx33> would be able to devote more time to the project
<troy_s> well paid is good, but ultimately the job description needs to be fully fleshed out
<cbx33> which is another reason why lisa struggled
<troy_s> including the drafting and implementation of design docs
<troy_s> etc.
<cbx33> had so much paid work to do
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> we all do
<cbx33> she had to prioritise
<troy_s> of course.
<cbx33> did any of the other aic's get paid this release?
<troy_s> if you pay someone to generate work though, it is very short lived.
<troy_s> cbx33 i don't know.
<cbx33> well lisa is actually doing a lot of the work
<troy_s> the structure is far more important in terms of long term goals.
<cbx33> of course
<troy_s> kwwii might have more insight into that as he is one of them
<kwwii> hehe, yes, I am being paid
<troy_s> kwwii is the official AiC for kubuntu for edgy+1
<cbx33> well that kinda sux
<troy_s> i must clean my bloody keyboard.
<cbx33> good on you kwwii
<kwwii> troy_s: hehe, I wish
<kwwii> I am only official for edgy
<cbx33> but I'm a little dissapointed that there were no funds for edubuntu
<kwwii> I did dapper (at the end of the cycle) and now edgy
<troy_s> cbx33 well considering there was exactly _zero_ art team at the start of edgy
<troy_s> it isn't really a shocker
<kwwii> cbx33: I truly think that edubuntu needs more artistic support
<cbx33> you mean for edubuntu?
<troy_s> the artwork structure and such really came online in edgy.
<troy_s> kwwii -- well that is the goal -- pool artistic resources
<cbx33> we tried to get people involved but no one was interested
<troy_s> the single warrior model isn't terrific
<cbx33> hence I'm working with Lisa on it tomorrow ;)
<kwwii> cbx33: it is too small of a market to interest enough users which are artists, I think
<cbx33> hopefully something may happen for lisa next release if we manage to pull out all the sotps tomorrow
<cbx33> I know she's love to work even part time on it
<troy_s> i don't know about that.  the buntu's are a tidal wave
<cbx33> well I'm off to bed
<troy_s> aight... get some rest.
<cbx33> early start tomorro
<troy_s> be good cbx33
<cbx33> take cae guys
<kwwii> cbx33: night, see you:-)
<PingunZ> Wow, has been active last 15 minutes
<PingunZ> Just when I was gone -_-
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> 117 folks on the launchpad tracker now.
<kwwii> oh now that you are here ...........
<troy_s> that's pretty bonkers.
<kwwii> hehe, no doubt
<kwwii> my wife is watching female boxing. freaky
<kwwii> she likes boxing a lot
<PingunZ> kwwii: rofl
<PingunZ> She practices on you ?
<BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, have you had any usplash-related luck
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: ?
<troy_s> kwwii do you have a screener of the current usplash for kub/ub?
<troy_s> handy?
<BHSPitMonkey> do you have the new usplash working for you, with a pretty theme?
<troy_s> i think frank got the work off to sev.eas
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: Not yet, I haven't been told how to..
<BHSPitMonkey> ah.
<troy_s> i imagine sev.eas is dreading having submitted those usplash refinements... testing is going to be a nightmare.
<kwwii> troy_s: nope, I made the pis, but I cannot get it running (or find anyone who could)
<BHSPitMonkey> well, I got usplash-dev or whatever
<BHSPitMonkey> and compiled the example
<troy_s> kwwii do you have a code snippit?
<kwwii> frank and I got our stuff done in time (and Seveas was nice enough to help and package it)
<troy_s> i still need to get edgy up on bloody vmware-player
<PingunZ> troy_s: Why not a partition ?
<troy_s> seveas has really pushed a massive rock up a hill.
<PingunZ> Its really stable, its my prymary os
<kwwii> troy_s: the usplash theme for kubuntu is in kubuntu-default-settings
<PingunZ> kwwii: What is it in for ubuntu ?
<kwwii> he has done a great job, and was really patient
<Seveas> troy_s, the victim is the other thing you asked me to look at
* BHSPitMonkey is running Knot 2, from a partition he dedicated to distro testing :)
<troy_s> pingunz:  because i don't like rebooting and my sata drives don't like it either apparently.
<kwwii> PingunZ: not sure, you would have to ask frank
<troy_s> the victim?
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> c'est la vie.  with a dead end, where would we travel?
<Seveas> heh
<troy_s> i got the rounder in on the gdm at least.
<PingunZ> Seveas: What package is the ubuntu usplash theme in // how can I enable it ?
<Seveas> I'll look at it again for fuzzy
<Seveas> PingunZ, for ubuntu the package is not through NEW yet
<Seveas> for kubuntu it's in kubuntu-default-settings
<PingunZ> :'(
<troy_s> pingunz -- ubuntu is a little more, eyes on fries so to speak
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/usplash_idea1-800.png is the current kubuntu stuff
<troy_s> which, ultimately, is a good thing.
<PingunZ> that looks nice
<troy_s> ah
<Seveas> kwwii, riddell made it th xubuntu splash too ;)
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> kwwii do you have any studies/sheets of the general look for kub yet?
<kwwii> Seveas: to be honest, I thought we should simply use the offical logo for each and a simple throbber or progress bar :-)
<troy_s> as in a recent screener set or something?
<Seveas> kwwii, I agree
<troy_s> kwwii i think frank went sole logo
<kwwii> troy_s: I have put a few shots on the nasty huge wiki page
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> incoming/kub?
<Seveas> troy_s, what do you mean with 'laf.'?
<troy_s> something to be said for scaling.
<kwwii> kubuntu-edgy-ideas
<troy_s> eek... that's the second person who asked me that this week.  laf simple shorthand for laugh.
<Seveas> ah
<kwwii> I will be changing all the artwork in the next day or two, I thought about making a montage with all the artwork
<Seveas> troy_s, was the other person fschoep or msikma perhaps?
<Seveas> they're dutch like me
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> i can't remember who it was.
<Seveas> and laf is dutch for being a coward
<PingunZ> True
<troy_s> but i think everyone automatically thinks it is some strange acronym
<troy_s> ah
<PingunZ>  // I'm dutch too -_-
<troy_s> how strange is that?
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I never knew that
<troy_s> kwwii what does hehe mean?
* troy_s apologizes.
<Seveas> PingunZ, I thought you were flemish?
<troy_s> but i can see why with the dutch thing.
<kwwii> troy_s: it means "yo-yo-yo-mutha-fucka
<kwwii> "
<PingunZ> Yup Seveas I am ..
<kwwii> oops, sorry
<Seveas> that
<Seveas> 's not dutch :
<PingunZ> But I don't think ppl all over the word understand ' flemish ' :)
<Seveas> hehe
* Seveas will be in flanders oct 18-21
<Seveas> in brussels
<PingunZ> Seveas: come and visit me lol
<PingunZ> I live very close to brussels
<PingunZ> google -> hoeilaart ;)
<BHSPitMonkey> hey Seveas
<Seveas> PingunZ, I have little time, I'm going to eurooscon
<troy_s> have you guys seen what pyrotica has been working on?
<troy_s> it is pretty damn incredible really.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GdmThemeing
<PingunZ> Seveas: eurososcon ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, O'Reilly open source conference
<kwwii> troy_s: boah, holy shit dude, that is amazing
<kwwii> ask me now what "boah" means
<troy_s> yeah nice eh?
<PingunZ> Seveas: Is everyone allowed ? :)
<troy_s> what is boah?
<troy_s> just for you.
<Seveas> PingunZ, everyone who pays 995,-
<BHSPitMonkey> link?
<kwwii> it is the sound I make when I am.....
<PingunZ> rofl
<troy_s> pretty crazy eh?  i have been looking for additional documents
<troy_s> found a few...
<PingunZ> Seveas: You aren't serious right ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, I am
<kwwii> I could touch that up and make a kdm-using-gdm-xml howto
<troy_s> bloody handy though considering that documentation is about the weakest link in the process.
<troy_s> that would rock
<Seveas> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/euos2006/
<troy_s> kwwii my jaw dropped when i checked in on it last time.
<Seveas> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/48/register.html
<kwwii> in about two months when I get around to it :-)
<troy_s> laf
<PingunZ> Seveas: You pay 995 for a conference ??
<Seveas> PingunZ, no I got a free ticket
<PingunZ> ^^
<kwwii> Seveas: did you know that I was co-author of the bootsplash?
<Seveas> kwwii, I read it on bootsplash.org
<Seveas> Graphical consultant: Kenneth Wesley Wimer II<kwwii at bootsplash dot org>
<PingunZ> Seveas: What is so good about it that you should pay 995 for it ??
<Seveas> PingunZ, look at the schedule
<Seveas> 995 is a pretty LOW price for a conference
<PingunZ> Err .. I'm kinda confused
<Seveas> PingunZ, you've just bever been to a conference ;)
<PingunZ> Nowp :)
<PingunZ> And I won't cause I haven't got 995 O_o
<BHSPitMonkey> wow.
<PingunZ> MY dad would kill me if I paid that much for a conference ( I'm 15 ;) )
<troy_s> laf
<BHSPitMonkey> heh
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> lol
<BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, do you code?
<troy_s> not the dutch laf
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: NOwp
<BHSPitMonkey> I don't like this whole "laf" thing
<troy_s> lol
<Seveas> PingunZ, such conferences are more targeted at CEO types
<Seveas> not 15 year olds
<troy_s> lmao
<PingunZ> troy_s: try ' rofl , lmao, lol, ..
<troy_s> see what i mean -- it's the evil laf
<BHSPitMonkey> roflmao
<troy_s> sorry pingunz -- been using laf online since about 1989
<BHSPitMonkey> roflcopter
<troy_s> it is hard to shake.
<BHSPitMonkey> wow
<PingunZ> troy_s: Its like switching apt-get to aptitude
<BHSPitMonkey> you've been using an acronym since I was born?
<BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, who would want to make that switch?
<Seveas> troy_s, why would you shake it?
<PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: smart ppl :)
<BHSPitMonkey> nah
<troy_s> that just scares me and makes me feel very old.  lol.
<BHSPitMonkey> heh :P
<troy_s> aptitude _does_ have some upsides.
<PingunZ> http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/aptitude
<Seveas> troy_s, just out of curiosity, how old would that be?
<BHSPitMonkey> that should be scary... MY lifetime, you've been online
<troy_s> 35 -- 36 in oct
<troy_s> indeed.
<kwwii> hehe, same here
* Seveas will be 24 in 20 days and 20 minutes 
<PingunZ> Wow you're more then twice as old as me
<BHSPitMonkey> well, I'm 17. nice to meetcha.
<kwwii> well, 35 in feb
<troy_s> first started coding on an apple ] [ in 1979
<troy_s> at the collossal age of 9.
<kwwii> hehe, I wish, 36 in feb
<PingunZ> rofl, nice script Seveas :)
<BHSPitMonkey> haha
<Seveas> PingunZ, script?
<BHSPitMonkey> my brother's nine
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm impressed if he can write a sentence properly
<PingunZ> Seveas: You don't calc that yourself right ?
<troy_s> that made me laugh out loud.
<Seveas> of course I do
<kwwii> my brother is 54
<BHSPitMonkey> o.o
<troy_s> well everyone gets up to speed at some point, some just go about it in different ways ;)
<PingunZ> roflmao, I don't believe you man
<kwwii> the oldest
* Seveas needs no script to know his birthday...
* BHSPitMonkey just started C/C++ last year, at the ripe age of 16
<troy_s> hey -- it was basic with line numbers.
<Seveas> troy_s, GOTO 10
<troy_s> bingo
<BHSPitMonkey> started using TI-BASIC in 2001, that was my start
<PingunZ> I know basic python ... Basic php, html and a little css
<Seveas> PingunZ, html, php and css aren't programming languages
<troy_s> the desktop computer had quite an impact on my psyche then, so my buddy and i (who owned the damn computer -- something like 4700 bucks cost to his family -- apple hasn't changed a bit)
<BHSPitMonkey> I know next to nothing when it comes to web development
<BHSPitMonkey> which sucks
<BHSPitMonkey> it's really easy to find work on web sites
<troy_s> started learning like little rodents.
<PingunZ> Seveas: I know, BUt I would be silly with just 2 languages ;)
<Seveas> PingunZ, you mean one
<troy_s> dog break.  back in  afew.
<PingunZ> Seveas: php is a programming language IMO
<PingunZ> whatever
<Seveas> PingunZ, no -- it's a way to vomit on the internet
<PingunZ> rofl
<kwwii> hehe, that is why I learned perl so many years ago
<kwwii> it paid well at the time
<Seveas> it's outdated and crap to maintain now
<Seveas> perl does not only allow you to shoot yourself in the foot, it hands you the loaded gun too
<kwwii> it is certainly no longer a good language for the net
<kwwii> but for some stuff it still rocks
<kwwii> obfuscation, for one
<Seveas> heh
<Seveas> true
<Seveas> job security
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> well that blasted fschoep should have popped on this morn.
<PingunZ> ^^
<troy_s> seveas are you on the bug killing fest now?
<troy_s> i take it?
<troy_s> to get usplash to work.
* PingunZ goes to sleep
<PingunZ> byez
<BHSPitMonkey> night
<Seveas> troy_s, no
<Seveas> the difficult work is mjg59's part
<troy_s> what is his issue?
<troy_s> i presume something of that magnatude is ugly as hell to implement.
<kwwii> implementing it in a nice way is
<kwwii> hacking something together that basically works, but needs "going over" is a bit easier
<kwwii> but bug-fixing this stuff is going to be fun, I bet
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-10
<Burgundavia> anybody here I can give feedback on the art to
<Burgundavia> ?
<kwwii> sure
<kwwii> let me have it :-)
<kwwii> which art do you mean?
<kwwii> ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, or xubuntu?
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> burgundavia
<Burgundavia> troy_s, kwwii: ubuntu
<troy_s> sure...
<kwwii> Burgundavia: definitely
<Burgundavia> I love the new background, except for one part: the blue on it
<Burgundavia> The login splash is just as good as the old one
<troy_s> Burgundavia its a nightmare currently... it sort of spiraled from a cmyk to rgb transition
<Burgundavia> however, the one piece I would like to see the same is the login screen (gdm theme)
<kwwii> blue in the wallpaper?
<kwwii> in ubuntu?
<kwwii> huh?
<Burgundavia> jdub was mentioning how this is the first thing that people see when they walk up to an Ubuntu machine
<Burgundavia> the blue in the upper right
<troy_s> the gdm has thus far been the most widely acclaimed change.  i don't know how it will change etc.  a large part is determined by the gods.
<Burgundavia> plus the new gdm theme is much darker
<Burgundavia> if there is one direction our artwork should not go, it is darker
<Burgundavia> the old gdm theme was very bright and light, while still maintaining the brown we are famous for
<troy_s> contrast is a very important element.  the palette is subject to some refinements though, the problem is tweaking _one_ colour cascades down.  and the palette must work with the existing high vis icons.
<Burgundavia> yes
<troy_s> its a tricky juggling act.
<Burgundavia> if there is one piece of feedback I have recieved almost universally from non-Ubuntu people is that our current backgrounds are too dark
<troy_s> needless to say, you will probably be seeing some subtle palette variations soon, and a different lsplash.
<Burgundavia> hence why I like how light the new background is
<troy_s> Burgundavia personally -- i feel if we just let ubuntu be what it is we gain a certain degree of distinctive look.  the dark dapper wallpaper had a certain mysterious quality to it... possibly related to the contrast between the tonality.
<Burgundavia> so please: there is no need to change the login screen from what it was
<Burgundavia> from a marketing perspective, it is great
<Burgundavia> light, while clearly ours
<Burgundavia> and it is the one piece we have never changed
<troy_s> your points have been heard.  again though, a good portion of the direction is out of a single persons hands.
<troy_s> we shall see how things shape in the coming term.
<kwwii> the best thing about edgy is that it is a test platform for edgy+1 :-)
<kwwii> anyone have a link to the new wallpaper for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> if I send an email to the artwork list, will somebody pass it through the spam filters? (my inbox is too busy to allow me to subscribe to the artwork list)
<kwwii> Burgundavia: for your info, I am doing kubuntu artwork, so I am not 100% up to date with ubuntu
<troy_s> well the problem currently burg
<troy_s> is that we are trying to unify the look / build a visual harmony
<troy_s> as of dapper,
<troy_s> almost _every_ element is completely disparate
<troy_s> there are three primary techniques used to achieve visual harmony
<troy_s> and we need to at least give some of them a shot.
<Burgundavia> yes
<troy_s> the basic idea is to build a set of images that corresponds nicely with the hardest to change element -- the icons.
<Burgundavia> I would build around the login screen, which has the advantage of being one of the lightest elements in the group
<troy_s> as sab wants to keep those for the time, and i tend to agree with him
<troy_s> well like i said, the palette is relative.
<troy_s> it was far darker earlier on
<Burgundavia> I get a lot of feedback about how dark the default theme is
<troy_s> and has gradually gotten lighter.
<Burgundavia> yes, it has
<troy_s> needless to say, don't fret too much just yet.
<troy_s> i would expect the oil/handcraft to stay
<troy_s> but the averages will probably adjust.
<troy_s> i would like to get them all back to rgb values, but we shall see what happens this weekend.
<troy_s> and regarding the bluer tone
<troy_s> that palette is taken from a professional designers palette sheet
<troy_s> so it _does_ work, however, the 'shock' of ubuntu not being so monochromatic will probably lead to knee jerk reactions.
<kwwii> I have had the same experience with kubuntu
<troy_s> well it is one thing to be 'brown' tonally, another thing entirely to be monochromatic.
<kwwii> exactly
<troy_s> i would argue that the bulk of people's dissapointment with the brown was the monochromatic application.
<kwwii> you cannot limit an artist to one color, or you will get one-color-boring ideas
<troy_s> well... apple did ok with one colour that isn't even a bloody colour
<troy_s> :)
<kwwii_> night all
<kwwii_> time for bed
<Burgundavia> troy_s: yes, but never underestimate the marketing power of consistency
<troy_s> Burgundavia which is exactly the point of the edgy cycle
<Burgundavia> sorry?
<troy_s> the real issue at stake is: what exactly is consistent in ubuntu
<Burgundavia> ye
<Burgundavia> yes
<troy_s> and after hours of looking over the elements
<troy_s> and what we can and cannot change in a single cycle
<troy_s> we end up being bound to the high visibility elements -- like icons
<Burgundavia> the consistency I am talking about the changing of the login screen
<troy_s> that said, orange is out of the question, as the orange was intended originally as a highlight and was taken out of context a little.
<troy_s> and accent
<troy_s> the problem with the logon screen as it _currently_ is in dapper is quite easy:
<troy_s> 1) it is generated, which is a far cry from human, organic, etc.
<Burgundavia> generated?
<troy_s> 2) it is a radial grad, which feels very mechanical.
<troy_s> 3) the square elements in ubuntu need to be refined to match the more rounded feels of the icons, etc.
<troy_s> 4) the palette is different from the icons by a hue factor.
<troy_s> 5) if you keep the original, then you would need to keep _some_ motif, and unfortunately it has _none_ that relate to the rest of the look
<troy_s> just a few points, and there are more.
<Burgundavia> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/install-docs-ubuntu_files/image032.jpg <-- you can make the elements square
<Burgundavia> less square, rather
<Burgundavia> but the glow is something I would keep
<troy_s> the glow is still there.
<troy_s> the primary issue is that the palette is completely all over the map for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> right
<troy_s> that is a long term problem, and one that most people react to when they say that they don't like brown.
<Burgundavia> nothing I am saying is disagreeing with you
<troy_s> which is a far generalistic issue.
<Burgundavia> I saying one thing: "Keep the general look of the login screen, including palette and tone"
<Burgundavia> how the rest of the artwork fits into that is something for the artwork types, not hte marketing ones
<troy_s> the problem is that
<troy_s> the icons don't match the dapper palette
<troy_s> and the icons, as per sabdfl, aren't changing.
<troy_s> rather
<troy_s> the dapper gdm
<troy_s> in fact, the gdm is about a contextually out of touch with the distribution as any portion.
<troy_s> so if the proposed solution is to keep the gdm from dapper
<troy_s> then we must retrofit _everything_ around that palette
<troy_s> and the nonexistent motif
<troy_s> which is entirely a problematic mission unto itself.
<troy_s> there simply isn't any easy solution unfortunately.
<troy_s> it is tricky from the bottom up
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> but the icon theme does not clash with the general theme of the dapper (and earlier) login screen
<troy_s> generally, i am more of the gentle pulling and trying to establish a few motifs to build around.
<Burgundavia> remember, we have not changed the login screen
<troy_s> actually it does
<troy_s> on about every level
<troy_s> from palette to tones to motif
<Burgundavia> motif?
<troy_s> a reoccurring element.  the gdm lacks one, the icons _sort_ of have one (the trademark curve) etc.
<Burgundavia> right
<troy_s> thematic harmony
<troy_s> on a very subtle level.
<Burgundavia> ok, fair enough
<Burgundavia> however, the current edgy login screen looks *totally* different from the previous one
<Burgundavia> this is totally unacceptable, from a marketing position
<troy_s> well, totally isn't entirely correct.  there is an underlying element below it that is identical to the original.
<Burgundavia> if we are going to change the login screen, it must be iterative
<troy_s> something _has_ to give
<troy_s> something will break
<Burgundavia> then break something else
<troy_s> from an aesthetic standpoint, you can't keep the gdm AND try to integrate a new background AND keep aesthetic harmony
<Burgundavia> the login screen is too important
<troy_s> like i said, it isn't set in stone yet.
<troy_s> nor even close
<troy_s> ultimately, edgy might look identical to dapper
<Burgundavia> sorry?
<troy_s> sabdfl calls the shots.
<troy_s> and from a marketing standpoint
<Burgundavia> I understand that
<troy_s> if you are going to issue from that vantage
<troy_s> you know about the term life cycle correct?
<Burgundavia> remember, I have been around Ubuntu since October 2004. I was at Mataro
<troy_s> i am not questioning your dedication or otherwise.
<troy_s> i am just saying that we need to discuss all of this and reconcile it further
<troy_s> i would like to try and keep it as evolutionary feeling as possible
<Burgundavia> no, I merely mentioning that I have been around awhiel and thus understand how sabdfl works
<troy_s> right now, i think the issue at hand is:
<troy_s> realizing that almost everyone agrees that aesthetic harmony is a bit of a priority.
<troy_s> 2) change will always invoke issues.  period.
<Burgundavia> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=718&slide=15 <-- this background is very nice
<Burgundavia> is is also clearly in the same palette range as the login screen
<troy_s> 3) no, its closer though.  the problem is more that i don't think sabdfl likes the lighter tones.
<troy_s> jmak did that one i believe
<Burgundavia> try changing them lighter and see what happens
<troy_s> well that's certainly on the agenda
<troy_s> there _will_ be changes
<troy_s> the real test is to sit with all of the elements jumbled in a pile and look at them
<troy_s> they should all fit together like a puzzle
<Burgundavia> well, I hear you talking a lot of the "agenda" but the only changes I see have gone in the other direction
<troy_s> which is currently _far_ away from where dapper is.
<Burgundavia> and it is already Sept 9th
<troy_s> i don't mind if the art stays the way it is actually.  this isn't a personal mandate by any stretch of the imagination.
<Burgundavia> the way it is being dapper or the current edfgy stuff?
<troy_s> well sabdfl has yet to weigh in on a quite a bit of the points.  he is damn busy at the moment.
<Burgundavia> hmm, you realize you have actually passed the artwork freeze?
<Burgundavia> as that wqas Sept 7th
<troy_s> um.
<troy_s> yes.
<Burgundavia> putting on my other hat of documentation team,
<Burgundavia> you had better decided quicklyt
<troy_s> might i also remind you that i am not the AiC.
<Burgundavia> yes
<troy_s> it isn't for me to decide.  the best i can do is try to get responses out of sabdfl.
<troy_s> and _that_ is quite a task.
<troy_s> the rapport is increasing, but it takes a helluva lot of work and my time is very slim.
<Burgundavia> sabdfl has a habit of liking to hcange the artwork very late in the cycle
<Burgundavia> drives the documentation team nuts
<troy_s> well... we tried to avoid that.
<troy_s> and so far, we have been successful.
<Burgundavia> they changed it for hoary 3 days before release
<troy_s> notice how this discussion is coming up _now_ :)
<troy_s> yes... ugly stuff.
<troy_s> trying to get into a schedule deadline is quite a bit of work.
<troy_s> having done this for a while (the creative end of things) this is a _very_ tricky situation on _so_ many new level.s
<troy_s> i plan on trying to accomodate a plethora of requests tonite, and yours will be at the top of the pile.  believe me.
<troy_s> hopefully we can come to some sort of negotiated middle ground that works with the icons and the rest of the thematic elements of ubuntu.
<Burgundavia> yes
<troy_s> again, one of the problems of a distinct lack of design docs
<troy_s> but luckily even the term ubuntu connotes a certain degree of aesthetic
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> tbh, given we are already passed feature freeze, I think we should just leave the dapper artwork in place and work on non-default artwork
<Burgundavia> the only thing I would chnage might be the desktop background, but I would want to be within monday or tuesday
<troy_s> well... again, it will be sabdfl's call.  not mine.  i get pinched in this merely because i care about ubuntu's look and feel.
<troy_s> you also put me in a darn tough spot because
<troy_s> up to now, the most postive feedback from the forums, my private mail, the fridge, etc have all been about the new gdm look.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> oops... i can't say laf anymore... lmao.
<Burgundavia> troy_s: is the login screen, splash and background available somewhere for me to link to as part of the UWN?
<troy_s> sorry Burgundavia, i was afk
<troy_s> You need a link to the images?  Hrm... I think Frank was drafting a page on the wiki relevant to all of the elements.
<Burgundavia> I kind of need it in about 3 hours, so I might do the images myself
<troy_s> Eek.
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_2.gif
<troy_s> great work sik
<troy_s> just mailed you
<msikma> Thanks, I just read it
<msikma> I think that if moving the logo up instead of in the center, it might be neat to not use a purely round radial light for the background, but rather a slightly tilted spotlight
<troy_s> sure try it.
<troy_s> see if we can hit phi with the circle
<troy_s> lighten the background to a nice shade
<troy_s> and see how the changes work out.
<msikma> I've got a pretty nice design now but the difficulty lies in making the dithering work right
<msikma> the background is lighter now and the dithering is more apparent that way
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_3.gif
<msikma> we just broke an important technical barrier for usplash and already I'm wishing we had 16m colors :)
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_4.gif
<BHSPitLappy> night
<BHSPitLappy> also, preeeeeetty.
<BHSPitLappy> I like 3 a little better than 4. It doesn't have to be really dark
<msikma> 4 is mostly about a subtle hue shift closer to brown
<BHSPitLappy> true, but it also removes that saturated area that filled the middle of 3
<BHSPitLappy> all very pretty though... how are these getting made?
<msikma> just photoshop
<msikma> it has support for very basic animation
<msikma> (depending on the state of the layers)
<BHSPitLappy> wow, that's good photoshop
<BHSPitLappy> although that's not very linux-purist-friendly ;P
<Seveas> msikma, it moves a bit too fast imho
<msikma> Perhaps, the movement speed can be determined later on anyway, when it's all in place in the new usplash code.
<PingunZ> Hey all
<PingunZ> I need a favor, I'm making ubuntu splashes ( for apps like OOo, gimp, .. ). I need a .svg template, I'm not experienced enough with inkscape myself, so could anyone make a template for me ?
<PingunZ> Atm I have this : http://pingunz.deviantart.com/gallery/?order=5&search=Splash
<PingunZ> So basically, I need a background image .. maybe some effects on it and a template text
<Burgundavia> PingunZ: sure, but be aware, ubuntu will not brand programs that heavily by default
<PingunZ> Burgundavia: I know that the chance that they get included is really small but I could put it on gnome-look or whatever ..
<PingunZ> See, I just want a complete splash serie ..
<PingunZ> Burgundavia: Could you make one for me ?
<Burgundavia> not currently, as it is almost 3am here and I am trying to get to sleep
<PingunZ> Ok, good night
<PingunZ> troy_s: ping ! read up, could you make a splash-template for me ?
<msikma> if you become active again, troy, maybe we could wrap up the new usplash.
<msikma> I'm going afk
<PingunZ> Yay, I found a nice splash background, it rocks !!
<PingunZ> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39553675/
<PingunZ> I'm making one for gimp / openoffice and xara too
<PingunZ> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39528250/
<PingunZ> Made an opeoffice one too
<effraie> maybe it where great in orange?
<PingunZ> Easy to change .. I have it in .svg
<msikma> effraie: "maybe it where great in orange"?
<effraie> yes?
<effraie> do you want something?
<msikma> Do you mean that PingunZ should make it orange? Because I totally did not understand what you said there.
<effraie> yes, that was what i mean
<msikma> Okay, I see
<PingunZ> Thadam, gimp splash done too
<PingunZ> ( was out for lunch )
<PingunZ> I'll see if I can make it orange effraie
<PingunZ> shite, the gimp logo doesn't scale well
<effraie> look here : http://ubunteros.free.fr/dotclear/images/oooubuntusplashorange.bmp
<PingunZ> effraie: That kind of orange ? or that background ?
<PingunZ> you could send me the background ..
<effraie> no, i'cant... it's not mine.
<effraie> but maybe you can contact the author? i found it on that blog
<PingunZ> Oh, well I like my image more, but I could check how it looks in orange ..
<PingunZ> http://zone13.digitalgrafis.com/files/intelmac_red_16001024_notxt.jpg
<msikma> That background doesn't work well for the Ubuntu logo.
<msikma> It blends in too much.
<coz_> if you want.. take a look at some of my new wall paper posts   ming/ =-=-= Start at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork =-=-= Tasks at http://www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs =-=-= IRC Logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ =-=-=
<coz_> * Topic for #ubuntu-artwork set by troy_s at Mon Sep 04 18:40:15 2006
<PingunZ> msikma: you like my splashes ?
<coz_>  Sorry bad copy paste up there         http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3462&cat=500&ppuser=44394
<msikma> I do, but you should make them all consistent with the Banshee splash you made.
<msikma> E.g. that format, a nicely rendered version of its icon used twice.
<msikma> I don't think that the designs are very "Ubuntu", though
<msikma> (Not just because they don't use the typical Ubuntu color set)
<PingunZ> msikma: You have a point there ..
<PingunZ> They are more suse-like
<msikma> indeed
<msikma> I've never seen striped used like that in Ubuntu before
<PingunZ> I was asking for a background like the striped here this morning
<PingunZ> but nobody replied to me so I just grabbed one from google
<PingunZ> msikma: Could you make me a .svg template ?
<msikma> svg template?
<msikma> You mean a base to work with?
<PingunZ> yup:)
<PingunZ> I'm an Inkscape anti-hero :)
<msikma> why would you want to use svg for this? They aren't scalable.
<PingunZ> No, but I could easily scale them, and move/remove items
<PingunZ> they are all based on the same .svg file
* PingunZ is out, homework 
<troy_s> msikma -- sorry man... i was in bed.
<cbx33> ARGH
<cbx33> this is ticking me off
<PingunZ> What is ?
<cbx33> usplash
<PingunZ> Are you making a theme for it or trying to get it to work ?
<cbx33> trying to get it to load the theme
<cbx33> I just keep getting the test screen
<cbx33> I know someone who has got it to work
<cbx33> I've made my .so file
<cbx33> I'm working on edubuntu
<cbx33> it sets up /etc/alternatives....
<cbx33> I have replaced the /usr/lib/edubuntu-usplash.so with my new one
<PingunZ> Hmm
<PingunZ> ask se.veas
<cbx33> I've changes the symlink in /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so to point to that file
<cbx33> yeh, he's not around at the mo
<PingunZ> He patched it ..
<cbx33> I know
<PingunZ> !ping Seveas
<Seveas> cbx33, update-initramfs -u
<cbx33> oooh thanky
<cbx33> Seveas I am a little concerned ;)
<cbx33> the symlinks point to each other on a default edubuntu install
<cbx33> p /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so points to /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so
<cbx33> and visa versa
<Seveas> cbx33, errr that's not good
<cbx33> yeh I know
<cbx33> circular resolutions ;)
<Seveas> /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so should point somewhere else
<cbx33> whre should it point?
<Seveas> usplash-artwork-edubuntu.so
<cbx33> well my artwork didn;t work :(
<cbx33> i just got a black screen
<cbx33> crap
<cbx33> I broke it
<cbx33> I must be mega stupid
<cbx33> does this mean I did it wrong Seveas ;)
<cbx33> why did it go wrong ?
<cbx33> Seveas it appeared to make the .so ok
<Seveas> cbx33, tar up your theme and e-mail it
<cbx33> Seveas I used the kubuntu one
<cbx33> changed the images
<cbx33> and just make on it
<cbx33> would that work?
<cbx33> ogra said he did it that way
<Seveas> depends on the images
<Seveas> all same 256 color palette?
<cbx33> they are png 356 colours
<cbx33> 256
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> oh....
<cbx33> possibly not the same pallete
<cbx33> crap
<cbx33> didn't know they had to all have the same pallete
<cbx33> do the throbbers have to have the same pallete as well?
<Seveas> http://carol.gimp.org/gimp/resources/palettes/howto.html
<Seveas> ys
<Seveas> yes*
<Seveas> all images must have the exact same pallette
<cbx33> ok would taht result in a black screen
<cbx33> and total system breakage ?
<cbx33> ;)
<Seveas> black screen is possible
<cbx33> it didn;t boot at all
<Seveas> that shouldn't happen
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well I'll try the pallete thing
<cbx33> ok I have the new images
<cbx33> gonna try building now
<cbx33> if not I'll mail to you so you can tell me what an idiot ive been ;)
<cbx33> Seveas i have breakage
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> I'm mailing you the images
<cbx33> the throbbers look odd but ignore that for now
<Seveas> did you mail it yet?
<cbx33> Seveas just doing it now
<cbx33> Seveas sent !
<Seveas> cbx33, I'm not getting them
<Seveas> cbx33, heh, the spamfilter caught them
<fschoep> Good evening everyone
<cbx33> hi fs
<fschoep> Doing fine?
<cbx33> howaz you dude
<fschoep> Fine, thanks
<fschoep> Reading up on my mail now
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> good good
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> fschoep
<troy_s> msikma ping
<troy_s> evening to you perhaps
<msikma> Hi
<fschoep> Hello
<troy_s> how are you doing fschoep
<fschoep> Fine thanks
<fschoep> You?
<troy_s> sorry msikma, i had to go to sleep over here.
<troy_s> i wasn't ignoring you.
<troy_s> good thanks fschoep
<msikma> That's okay
<msikma> (didn't think you were)
<kwwii> re
<troy_s> ping msikma
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-03
<Paladine> hi
<Paladine> am working on a community project called Ubuntu Users Social Network and was wondering if any of you fine people would be willing to take a concept image and work it into a finished design?
<Paladine> the concept images are http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo.png and http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo2.png
<Paladine> they are for the header block on the website
<Paladine> my versions are just mashups of a concept
<Paladine> I am not a graphic designer
<Paladine> they both need the words "Ubuntu Users" on them somewhere too
<Paladine> they both symbolise people in an arid landscape (a metaphor for a windows centric world) being drawn to the power and energy of ubuntu
<Paladine> well I came up with a reasonably decent final image if you want to take a look http://www.paladine.org.uk/images/uu-logo3.png
<troy_s> kwwii:  You _really_ need to append -tile to your montage request.  Assume a browser resolution of about 1024 and divide your image size geometry width into that.  Round and insert -tile <value>.  Joeseph's samples are _way_ too wide and probably are the default 'guess' of montage.
<troy_s> kwwii: That page has grown into a nightmare.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, good point
<troy_s> kwwii: You should really say 'upload ONE image of xxx size' and then you could run montage on them all.
<troy_s> kwwii: it is just a gongshow now.
<troy_s> kwwii: unorganized and nightmarish.
<kwwii> man, are you ever positive about anything?
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> very little with the state of ubuntu unfortunately.
<troy_s> kwwii: Besides, put yourself in the headspace of a casual viewer.  That page is 'hard to manage' to put things delicately.
<nothlit> thats because we're trying to use the wiki to do the job of gallery software :P
<kwwii> sure, but you are also free to help you know :-)
* kwwii gets breakfast
<troy_s> kwwii: I am not the Ubuntu art lead.  I would think that you agree that the running of the show should probably be structured and executed by that fellow.
<troy_s> kwwii: Otherwise you run the risk of 'too many chiefs.'
<troy_s> kwwii: I think it is positive to at least offer that space to the person who must make the ball go up the hill.
<troy_s> tell me that there isn't some sort of stenography in those two first lion wallpapers.
<kwwii> troy_s: sure, but I suck at editing wiki pages - I simply do not like them so feel free to help improve on the wiki page structure ;-)
<kwwii> I dig the one with the lions face in it
<troy_s> kwwii: Well it would require that you boil down the submits to say 2 or so.
<troy_s> kwwii: per
<troy_s> that is.
<troy_s> kwwii: If you can hit me with a raw set of images on that wiki for your montaged versions (say 2 or so?) then I'll collage 2s from the others.
<kwwii> in the end, the amount of feedback hasn't been that amazing anyway
<troy_s> kwwii: There is a bit on the forums apparently.
<troy_s> kwwii: It is hard to get any sort of feedback until there is critical mass anyways.
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> man, if there is one thing I like less than wikis it is forums
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> anyways, if you can hit the ones you want i'll compile i suppose.
<troy_s> i would think it is logical to 'boil' down to the ones that are at least _close_ to brown.
<troy_s> kwwii: Thoughts?
<kwwii> troy_s: good idea,  I think
<troy_s> kwwii: At risk of nasty, I would then suggest that the 'art lead' make those decisions.
<kwwii> here are the raw pics from JC: http://sinecera.de/JosephConnors.tar.bz2
<troy_s> shite.
<troy_s> can you pick two or three?
<troy_s> that best exemplify the attempts?
<kwwii> yes, I'll do that in a bit
<troy_s> just glance at them
<kwwii> I think that perhaps the best way to move forward on that page and the community wallpaper package would be to start a new wiki page
<troy_s> then maybe also offer the two or three that you are progressing from the batch.
<troy_s> well how about a 'further along' page
<troy_s> with the drops
<kwwii> exactly
<troy_s> decision made by yourself.
<kwwii> kind of a preselection of ones that are "somewhat near approveable" or whatever
<troy_s> if you want, you can spend time offering up a 'why not this one' explanation somewhere, but for now, it would seem logical to get to a nice 3 or 4 column thumbnail section.
<troy_s> yeah
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> perhaps that sort of feedback would be welcome as well.
* elkbuntu takes another look through the incoming/gutsy page
<troy_s> i actually don't really care, aside from the fact that having that much garbage on one page of varying sizes and such really makes the whole of the splinters of any 'community' look horribly scattered at best.
<troy_s> kwwii: Do you have your batch available via tarball?
<troy_s> your's are the only two sets that i require it of as the thumbnails aren't quite big enough (probably 300 wide or so would suffice -- maybe 400)
<troy_s> kwwii: The rest I'll publish as a montage on the wiki for you.
<troy_s> kwwii: The only things I would require are your 'push to next' selections and sources of your own 'push to next'
<troy_s> (well not full sources, just something a little bigger than 150 wide)
<elkbuntu> hmm... i quite like the idea behind the 'Springer' design
<elkbuntu> except for the branding, of course
<troy_s> that elephant skin rather rocks.
<kwwii> troy_s: yes, I will get something together today and ping you later
<elkbuntu> yeah, as a texture
<kwwii> my goal this week is to get to an almost final wallpaper
<troy_s> kwwii: What are you going with for kubuntu this roll?
<kwwii> something that amazingly only took about 5min to make
<kwwii> it has been in for quite a while
* elkbuntu hasnt booted kubuntu gutsy at all yet
<kwwii> kubuntu has 0% community artists - hever has had any really
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> and I have no idea why
<kwwii> when they are so much free-er to do what they want
<kwwii> and everyone wants blue
<troy_s> kwwii: I think that's a problem
<troy_s> kwwii: Or a potential one.
<troy_s> kwwii: I know from personal experience that many people consider KDE a Windows-inspired version.
<troy_s> kwwii: Which I suppose comes with an upside and a downside.
<troy_s> kwwii: As an aside, that lion skin with the brown fluid overlay is interesting too.
<troy_s> kwwii: Again, would have been nifty to have had a brainstorm on the ideas.
<troy_s> kwwii: Just goes to show where a true brainstorm might take you every odd submission or so.
<troy_s> Go for http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/xsidekick409/lightbulb2.png?t=1187234593
<kwwii> hehe, I tried to talk to that guy and he took things really poorly
<kwwii> I was trying to help him and be nice but he got all touchy-feely about things
<kwwii> that is what kept me from commenting too much
<troy_s> that's unfortunate
<troy_s> however, i don't think you should let the replies of a single individual prevent you from driving things further along.
<kwwii> well, at that time he was the only one contributing:-)
<kwwii> we have restructured things again so that I won't waste time working on other projects
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: How so?
<kwwii> well, basically I do not have to work on the mobile stuff anymore
<kwwii> we have a fixed "desktop team" now
<troy_s> kwwii: Well that's good to hear.
<troy_s> kwwii: What do you intend to focus your efforts on then?
<kwwii> as I wanted to do for Gutsy, I want to have a full cycle to concentrate on getting things right for Heron
<kwwii> as soon as I started work on Gutsy I got sidetracked by other projects
<kwwii> kinda pissed me off really
<kwwii> working on the mobile project was fun though, as it was something completely different than doing a desktop
<troy_s> what did they end up going with design wise?
<troy_s> (the last time I saw it it appeared to be a 'hey we can do the iphone too you know!' kid back of class sort of thing)
<kwwii> well, the current state is nasty but in the end it will be black and orange
<kwwii> kind of a funky light through glass effect
<kwwii> the interface is quite different than the iphone, really
<troy_s> kwwii: Who is the arbitrator?
<troy_s> kwwii: Too bad -- I pushed sabdfl to pay attention to bloody transition effects about oh... 1.5 years ago.
<kwwii> troy_s: we have several contracts with different companies, so there are many
<troy_s> kwwii: Even wrote up a spec six months later.
<troy_s> blah
<kwwii> troy_s: well, we hired someone to work on desktop coding bling now, so things just might get better
<troy_s> kwwii: I fear he just doesn't quite 'get it' -- which is cool.  It is truly unfortunate as he could have been a good year ahead of the ball.
<troy_s> kwwii: Unfortunately, without some sort of directed vision, it is going to be nightmarish to try and weave all the new elements together into a cohesive whole.
<troy_s> kwwii: I mean, he _still_ doesn't have a sound department.
<kwwii> oh man, if you want to see crazy shit just check a project being done by several companies at once
<troy_s> kwwii: Which is godawful ugly.
<troy_s> kwwii: An ambience track as well as suitable desktop sounds would go a long way to rounding out one half of the mix.
<kwwii> half the problem is finding good people who are willing to work on linux at all
<kwwii> you cannot throw money at them...it is amazing
<kwwii> I have heard it from their mouths
<troy_s> kwwii: He apparently isn't throwing money at the right people -- as would bear out the track record.
<kwwii> he has tried it on several people and they all seem to duck
<troy_s> kwwii: I have spoken to at least three high visibility art directors (people like http://imdb.com/name/nm0579980/ for example) who would be gung ho to art direct a project like that.
<troy_s> so he clearly is in the dark
<troy_s> i know the last time i brought that up he insisted on someone living in the UK which is just foolish.
<troy_s> he just doesn't get it.
<troy_s> very very sad.
<troy_s> note:  that is _the_ art director for avatar.
<troy_s> a good designer / artist would look to anything such as ubuntu as an amazing opportunity to do some tremendous work.
<troy_s> hacks might not.
<kwwii> I can understand wanting to have someone local to talk to on a daily basis
<troy_s> i can't.
<troy_s> it just isn't done that way in the big real world.
<troy_s> you can certainly meet with people and like.  that is terrific.
<kwwii> dude, having experience doing movies does not mean that you can create a linux desktop experience
<troy_s> that said, having someone 'next door' just reeks of micromanagement.
<kwwii> aside from the art part, there are things that you simply cannot do yet
<kwwii> and some of that can be developed but some cannot
<kwwii> not yet, at elast
<kwwii> least
<troy_s> There are underutilized components already existing.
<kwwii> and building a system in which such is possible takes time and patience
<kwwii> you need to hire lots of good people first
<troy_s> and I would argue that diana has taken fedora leaps and bounds past many efforts.
<troy_s> (almost single handedly)
<kwwii> and the hard part about that is finding them and getting them to want to work for you
<kwwii> yes, she has done an amazing job
<troy_s> in the end it just takes people with ability and the ability to not micromanage.
<troy_s> which is a huge chunk of effort on the end portion.  mistakes will be made.
<kwwii> but as you would say, she has a free hand and nobody looking over her shoulder
<troy_s> not at all -- she has the same issues.
<kwwii> if we had a design that nice it would have been shot down for having too much detail and not being luminent enough :p
<troy_s> (or at least our rather limited email / irc conversations have discussed)
<troy_s> kwwii: And yes, I agree.  WTF IS LUMINENT
<nothlit> go around sabdfl? in the end the community will choose
<kwwii> nothlit: now way that is going to happen
<kwwii> erm, no way
<troy_s> nothlit: Not quite.  It might look that way on the surface and you will see that repeated time and time again, but ...
<troy_s> kwwii: Although that is a card that he might not be willing to keep playing.
<kwwii> troy_s: I get the feeling that things are changing slowly
<kwwii> I think it has a lot to do with trust
<kwwii> funny as that may sound
<kwwii> it is his baby, and he is like a paranoid first time parent
<kwwii> well, enough bashing my boss
<troy_s> i said that in an email to him a while back.  he is like the parent who has a 15 year old and insists on dressing him / her.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> on a side note... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=539975
<troy_s> that is quite a rig.
<kwwii> oh wow, no doubt
<kwwii> I wonder if the guy can make decent music with it
<troy_s> there is a snippit of his work.
<kwwii> I know so many photographers with amazing equipment that make shitty pictures
<lassegul> http://sinecera.de/JosephConnors.tar.bz2
<kwwii> lassegul: ?
<lassegul> kwwii: sorry. i was just reading through the backlog, and clicked a link the wrong way probably..
<kwwii> lol
<lassegul> good morning though
<kwwii> good morning ;-)
<lassegul> sat up all night trying to make changes to springer.
<lassegul> 4.15 pm, after I redid the whole damn thing, trying to follow troy_s advice, I still felt that the original sketch up was better.
<lassegul> and im starting to hate Inkscapes occasional "internal error"s
<lassegul> so im giving it a fresh start this evening.
<kwwii> hehe, I know the feeling
<kwwii> just remember to save all the time
<kwwii> or save different versions as I do
<kwwii> which kinda sucks but is better than loosing your changes
<lassegul> yeah
<lassegul> troy_s: You still here?
<troy_s> lassegul: unfortunately yes.
<troy_s> lassegul: You will also find that certain revisions are more stable than others.
<troy_s> lassegul: If you have issues, revert to a prior or update and try a compile.
<lassegul> troy_s: tried to go for five swooshes, but it didnt go very well. Can you make 3 dominant swooshes, and one less clear, and will it still work as a fobi(whatshisface) nr?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> yeah bear in mind that there are _no_ rules...  that said, your average audience member is darn astute and will tend to cleave towards those nasty well trained numbers.
<troy_s> 3 maybe?>
<lassegul> yeah, but the thing is its really a cross. Its not just two shapes, but it could just as much be. And i like it, but maybe we'll try with just 3.
<lassegul> so kwwii, you redoing the human theme?
<kwwii> lassegul: erm, what do you mean by "redoing" ?
<lassegul> kwwii: is it going to be updated for gutsy or is it the same as feisty and edgy?
<kwwii> lassegul: which part do you mean? the icons are what they are, no big changes there, the style is probably not going to change a lot, although I did think about tweeaking the gtkrc a bit
<lassegul> ok. i was maybe thinking making the metacity theme a little different. I can send you a proposal later tonight, nothing big, just a little change of colours.
<lassegul> kwwii: and a little different shine.
<nothlit> kwwii: i keep check my inkscape stuff into git regularly as i work
<kwwii> lassegul: probably not as that would require coding
<lassegul> kwwii: ok
<lassegul> kwwii: what were you thinking about doing with gtkrc?
<kwwii> tweaking the colors, making it more flexible
<lapo> hi
<lassegul> hi
<lassegul> kwwii: shoud we have  a ubuntu logo worked in to the picture or not?
<lassegul> kwwii; on the wallpapers. what do you or sabdfl think about that?
<kwwii> lassegul: normally I would say no, but if you can do it right it might be ok
<kwwii> it should not stand out
<lassegul> kwwii: hmm.. ok
<lapo> I need testers for tangerine icon theme volunteers?
<lapo> eventually you can find it here http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Tangerine.tar.bz2
* kwwii is out for the evening...bbl
<kwwii> much later :-)
<lasse_> hi people.
<lassegul> troy_s: Ive really used the mask thingy very much. its real handy
<lassegul> troy_s: the future is truly mathematical :^)
<troy_s> lassegul: It's very good.
<troy_s> lassegul: The real trick to inkscape is getting a workflow.
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi lapo
<lapo> guten aben kwwii :-)
<terlmann> lo kewe
<terlmann> keywee
<terlmann> LOL
<kwwii> hi terlmann
<kwwii> good stuff you added to the wiki
<terlmann> Thx
<kwwii> although I could argue some of the points I think you have it mainly right
<kwwii> it is hard to make rules that hold for everything
<terlmann> well
<terlmann> I really cant find the sources
<terlmann> I am certain that the page I got it from years ago had it better
<terlmann> but I cant find it now
<terlmann> some of my rules could use some explaining , thats for certain.
<kwwii> the problem with rules and artwork is that as soon as you make them someone proves you wrong by breaking them
<terlmann> the one about nothing in corners
<terlmann> well my rules are about how to make art the RIGHT way. I dont think any art form can break these rules.
<terlmann> :-D
<kwwii> although I would agree with what you wrote for anyone who needs to read rules
<troy_s> lol
<lassegul> troy_s: ive been trying to follow the colour scheme of the warty and breezy samples, it doesnt as good that way, but itll have to go.
<lassegul> troy_s: anyways you can see it at the wiki in about 2 min.
<troy_s> lassegul: That is part of the problem really -- the palette issues.
<troy_s> lassegul: At any rate, all you have to work with is fundamental value contrast.
<troy_s> lassegul: As is the nature of the rather haphazard method that sabdfl stumbled upon the tone.
<lassegul> troy_s: :)
<troy_s> lassegul: The background is less than uh -- planned.
<troy_s> lassegul: In the early going he wanted to start out with sepia toned photography -- which is brilliant really.  Unfortunately, due to some execution concerns, the photography went out and all forms from that point on.  The sepia tone stayed (well one of about 20 different sepias -- the one that you see in those wallpapers is more or less a direct sampling of a sepia toned photo.)
<lassegul> New upload on the wiki.
<lassegul> damn its still to orange :(
<troy_s> lassegul: Just use the colour sampler in Inkscape
<troy_s> lassegul: Drag that little sample kwwii created onto your project and sample from it.
<lassegul> troy_s: not a bad idea.
<troy_s> lassegul: Also note that if you click and drag with the sampler, it will sample the area under the circle.
<troy_s> lassegul: averaging out the tones.
<troy_s> lassegul: That is really evolving.
<lassegul> troy_s: nice, ill be using that.
<lassegul> troy_s: thanks
<troy_s> lassegul: Did you get the PM?
<lassegul> troy_s: sorry, i pay little attention to blinking windows ;)
<troy_s> lassegul: Check your mail.
<lassegul> aye aye cptn
<troy_s> lassegul: Hope that helps a bit.  There is some good reading in there too.
<troy_s> lassegul: Off for a while.
<lassegul> yeah, thanks, reading it now.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-04
<troy_s> kwwii: And yeah, that guy can produce decent music judging from a small riff on the forums.
<yharrow> anybody home?
<yharrow> ping troy_s  nothlit
<nothlit> yharrow: hi
<yharrow> hey nothlit
<yharrow> hows it going
<yharrow> long time no see
<nothlit> lol, procrastinating ;P, you?
<yharrow> hehe
<yharrow> nothlit: yeah i was partially
<yharrow> but the turth is that there was a family emergency
<yharrow> so i havent done much lately
<yharrow> things are pretty much calmed down now though
<yharrow> so i shoudl be getting back into the run of things soon
<kwwii> hi all, just thought I should mention that I am planning on wrapping up the wallpaper stuff this week so if you have any more contributions now would be the time to post them to the wiki
<lapo> hi
<nothlit> hi
<yharrow> hey
<yharrow> anyone here?
<nothlit> sort of
<lassegul> yeah
<kwwii> hrm, I wonder where I can find Scorpuk
<yharrow> anybody mind telling me what they think of this folder design? http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/artisticlogician/?action=view&current=folder.png
<kwwii> I think it is a bit too detailed to be used as an icon
<kwwii> and the paper clips do not fit well with the comic style of the folder itself
<yharrow> kwwii: if i removed the text and the clips would it go well?
<yharrow> i asuume that the clips add too much detail
<kwwii> it would not fit with our current icons but it would/could be the base idea for a comic styled icon set
<kwwii> just try scaling it down to 24x24 and then you will see which details are too much
<yharrow> ok, sounds cool. Yeah I was thinking about creating an entire set.
<yharrow> I wanted to emphasize on design that looked comic, but also natural (papers falling out), cabinets with drawers open for packages
<kwwii> cool
<FreePBX2521> 
* elkbuntu likes the new wispy bits on the new version of the springer wallpaper, but the glowy sphere is kind of a little bit overboard
<lassegul> elkbuntu: yeah i know, version three has a much easier glow
<elkbuntu> cool
* elkbuntu also likes the new one at the bottom of the page with the fractal lacy bits, but the colours are a bit... off
<andreasn> kwwii: do you happen to know where I can find any documentation on how to create kdm-themes?
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, it is almost exactly like gdm though
<andreasn> ah, good
<kwwii> may I ask what you are making a kdm theme for?
<kwwii> you're not switching to kde are you? :D
<andreasn> it's for a customer
<elkbuntu> aww, you had kwwii so excited there
<kwwii> cool, just wondered
<kwwii> andreasn: where do you work?
<andreasn> I'm a freelancer
<andreasn> so it's kind of the Andreas Nilsson-company more or less
<elkbuntu> kwwii, did you end up coming up with a wallpaper candidate you were happy with?
<kwwii> cool, freelancing can be really fun if you have enough work or are independently wealthy :p
<andreasn> well, for the moment I have a ok number of commisions
<andreasn> so it pays the rent
<kwwii> elkbuntu: yes, I am going to make another wiki page with the finalists tomorrow morning - still waiting on a couple of hi-res versions from two people
<andreasn> I'm totally going to check out kde4 in december though, see what you dudes have been up to, but I'm probably too lazy to switch desktops
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, I know that feeling - learning a new desktop and actually getting work done do not really go together
<kwwii> although I am running gnome I still find myself starting konqueror from time to time
<andreasn> well, if you're used to the konqueror workflow, I don't see any reason to run nautilus or whatever
<elkbuntu> kwwii, excellent :)
<andreasn> kwwii: I guess I want a computer with just three buttons... internet-browser, inkscape and e-mail
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> like 5x5 cm big
<andreasn> I certainly don't want IM and irc on there, that just eats time ;)
<kwwii> actually those are some of the first ones I remove from the kde panel (adding inkscape)
<kwwii> I used fluxbox for a long time just to get more screen realestate
<andreasn> never tried that
<kwwii> well, it has a clock, you can switch windows with little arrows and nothing else other than a desktop menu pre right and middle click on the desktop
<kwwii> s/pre/per
<kwwii> anyway...time for dinner :-)
<andreasn> later!
<lassegul> kwwii: please let me finish my springer3 before you decide for the new wikipage
<lassegul> kwwii: when is the deadline?
<kwwii> lassegul: there is no official deadline but I will be wrapping things up pretty soon
<kwwii> lassegul: in any case, we will still have a community package - for that we still have a week or so
<lassegul> kwwii: ok, laying the final touches on springer3 now, perfecting the swooshes, shadows and strings
<kwwii> lassegul: and it is not just my decision that counts...there are several people that have a say in this matter
<kwwii> there is a good chance that all of my work will be rejected as well
<kwwii> :-)
<lassegul> i just want to get considered with a submition _I_ feel comfortable with :)
<kwwii> lassegul: no worries on that...let me know when you are finished
<lassegul> ill have it done tonight
<kwwii> it will definitely be a day or two before it happens
<lassegul> hey, how do you uninstall with autopackage? My inkscape gets the internal errors from hell. Is it possible just to install the newer version and it will overwrite older version?
<kwwii> yes, it should just install over the other version
<kwwii> if in doubt check the version number
<kwwii> if it was installed in /usr/share/local it will be overwritten
<kwwii> you could also go there and check the time of creation to make sure
<lassegul> kwwii: thanks
<lassegul> kwwii: uuuh, layout cahnge. Sweet
<kwwii> ;-)
<Skiessi> I think those springer-wallpapers need a bit more details :P
<lassegul> Skiessi Thanks, Ill consider it for the springer4, but i havent got time for it on nr 3.
<Skiessi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=random.jpg :D
<lassegul> Skiessi: omg what did you do to my springer :)
<lassegul> Skiessi: no im just kidding, knock yourself out
* Skiessi knocks himself out
<lassegul> Skiessi: I could send you the svg if that makes it easier for you...
<lassegul> Anyways, springer3 is up
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-05
<troy_s> kwwii: You have that list?
<kwwii> troy_s: nope, a couple of people have asked for more time
<kwwii> so it will be out in a couple of days
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi lassegul
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> lapo:
<kwwii> boah, today is not my day
<lassegul> Hi kwwii and lapo
<lassegul> :^)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<Skiessi> hi
<lassegul> hi
<titanix88> kwwii kwwii_ howdy?
<titanix88> hello kenneth here?
<terlmann> I dunno man
<terlmann> dont seem like it
<titanix88> i am trying to contact kenneth wimer.
<terlmann> well try the floo network
<titanix88> heard he wants to talk abt wiredubuntu.
<terlmann> otherwise look up his profile on the ubuntu wiki for an email adress
<terlmann> wiredubuntu is a good peice man
<terlmann> could be richer... IE the logo floating on water
<terlmann> or in air
<terlmann> but its sweet man
<terlmann> then again I think the official image for ubuntu-studio is sweet too
<terlmann> so I dont really know what that is
<andreasn> titanix88: ping kwwii, that's kenneth
<titanix88> kwwii wanna talk with u.
<kwwii> titanix88: yo, wassup
<titanix88> andresn ping means getting attention,right?
<titanix88> kwwii: u kenneth?
<kwwii> titanix88: yepp
<titanix88>  u wanted high res wiredubuntu.they are in the attachments from begining.
<kwwii> titanix88: I showed your pic to the big boss and here was his response:
<kwwii> Also,
<kwwii> the wired-ubuntu image is... interesting, especially if it was centered,
<kwwii> not scaled, on a black background and with a slightly different surface
<kwwii> texture in the glow area. Perhaps not for now, but for mobile / next-gen
<kwwii> look?
<kwwii> ouch. that came out poorly
<kwwii> so.... titanix88 are you interested on working on some variants of it
<terlmann> yea
<terlmann> it would be perfect for a cell phone
<terlmann> mobile ubuntu...
<terlmann> LoL
<kwwii> terlmann: the project isn't really aimed at cell phones, rather at internet tablets
<kwwii> terlmann: have you seen any of the work we have done on it?
<titanix88> damn i agree. but i can give u the .blend if someone else wants it.
<terlmann> kwwii
<terlmann> nope
<terlmann> I am part of the desktop crowd
<kwwii> titanix88: actually, I am not a blender expert...think you could work on it a bit
<kwwii> ?
<terlmann> I would like the blend
<kwwii> terlmann: you should take a look, it is pretty interesting as it is a completely new interface/desktop idea
<titanix88> how much time do i have?
<kwwii> titanix88: plenty of time
<kwwii> no hurries on this
<terlmann> kwwii : please dont tell me its a varient on the old thin-client idea
<kwwii> terlmann: nope, it is for devices similar to nokias n800
<terlmann> mhm
<terlmann> like tablet pc
<kwwii> terlmann: the new devices run between 5 and 7 inch screens with a res of around 1280x600
<kwwii> exactly
<terlmann> your a major player at canononical >?
<kwwii> terlmann: well, I work for canonical, yes
<titanix88> terlmann: thnx.give me ur address. i might be busy for couple of weeks.
<terlmann> can you help me learn how to customize my own ubuntu derivitive ?
<terlmann> titanix : terlmann at yahoo dot com
<kwwii> terlmann: well, I am just the art guy ;-)
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> what did you think of the branded lion ?
<kwwii> I like it a lot
<kwwii> I honestly doubt it will make it as default but I think we should definitely include it
<kwwii> for this release we want to stick to something very close to the designs we have had in the past
<terlmann> I see
<terlmann> kwwii : I am going to make a varient on ubuntu
<titanix88> so u want the wired ubuntu centered?but don't u want ubuntu logo(not edubuntu)?
<terlmann> Im going to call it lubuntu
<terlmann> for legacy
<terlmann> just english locals
<terlmann> and only x86 chipset
<terlmann> for i686 and older
<nothlit> titanix88: is that a composite glow on the wires?
<terlmann> full-featured but reduces
<terlmann> reduced
<kwwii> titanix88: yepp, we would want the ubuntu logo
<titanix88> nothlit: no glow. just full ref. same colored diff and specu.want the .blend?
<kwwii> terlmann: cool, sounds like a lot of work
<nothlit> sure
<kwwii> the comments from sabdfl should be the basis of the work forward on this
<kwwii> the basis, but not the end-all rules we *have* to follow
<titanix88> i think i will post the .blend in the wiki attachments. btw my launchpad nick"Titon4"
<terlmann> well kwii
<terlmann> I dont know how
<terlmann> at all
<kwwii> titanix88: cool, I was trying to figure that out the other day ;-)
<kwwii> luckily Rich helped me find you
<kwwii> terlmann: hrm, not sure how realistic it is to create a whole distri if you have no idea how (sorry, just being honest)
<kwwii> terlmann: the best place to start would be to talk to ubuntu-devs
<kwwii> I could give you good pointers on the artwork but not much else
<nothlit> terlmann: what seperates your project from the fluxbuntu and xubuntu projects? are you going to continue to use gnome?
<titanix88> goodbye guys. thnx for appretiating my first try.i will post the .blend soon. one more thing_ u want the logo without perspective?
<kwwii> titanix88: not necessarily, but perhaps a bit less perspective would be good
<kwwii> too late :-(
<Skiessi> http://skiessi.googlepages.com/Kuvakaappaus.jpg :D I think this looks good
<terlmann> nothlit : yea
<terlmann> its not going to be a minima
<terlmann> minimal
<terlmann> only all the gunk will be removes
<terlmann> removed
<terlmann> bluetooth
<terlmann> firewire
<kwwii> Skiessi: pretty good idea
<terlmann> anything my system and others like it cannot use
<terlmann> no wireless
<joejaxx> sounds more like a personal project :P
<kwwii> terlmann: just build a gentoo system :D
<terlmann> kwwii
<terlmann> I like my ubuntu
<lassegul> is the wiki down?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-06
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi lapo
<Skiessi> kwwii did he send you the high res version of springer? can you send it to me?
<Skiessi> .. :O I mean wiredubuntu
<kwwii> Skiessi: yes, email address?
<Skiessi> why not dcc?
<kwwii> sending now
<kwwii> funny enough I have no idea how to send a pic per DCC
<Skiessi> are you using x-chat?
<kwwii> nope, konversation
<Skiessi> ok.. I don't know about
<Skiessi> that one
<kwwii> sent per email
<kwwii> the first mail has no attachment, sorry
<kwwii> the second has a 1920x1080 version
<Skiessi> thanks
<andreasn> kwwii: 1900, ouch
<andreasn> kwwii: or, well, it's good as well I guess
<andreasn> kwwii: ping
<axxium> ping
<kwwii> andreasn: hey man
<kwwii> I am heading off to the store in a couple of minutes
<kwwii> catch you when I get back, unless you type quickly :-)
<andreasn> kwwii: np, we can talk later
<kwwii> andreasn: I am back (like a bad disease) :-)
<andreasn> kwwii: do you know how I do to add a ksplash in kubuntu?
<andreasn> mostly to test it out
<andreasn> I was able to add it when I did sudo kcontrol in the terminal
<andreasn> but then it didn't get enabled anyway
<kwwii> hrm, I know how to replace the default version but not much else
<andreasn> well, that might work as well
<kwwii> when I test it I simply replace the installed version
<andreasn> where do I place it in if I want to do that?
<kwwii> hrm, let me check
<kwwii> ...   /usr/share/apps/ksplash/pics
<kwwii> erm, wait no
<kwwii>  ...   /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu$
<kwwii> if you look at the kubuntu package you will see that pretty much all of the artwork and color scheme stuff is in "kubuntu-default-settings" package
<kwwii> tweaking everything in that package should allow you to create a whole new look for kubuntu
<kwwii> locally I just replace the installed files to test them
<andreasn> ah, ok, I'll check it out
<andreasn> thanks!
<xivulon> Hi all
<xivulon> I am the author of wubi, as you may know that is getting incorporated into the CD, and I might need some help/suggestions with a couple of images
<xivulon> This is our current interface http://wubi-installer.org/screenshots.php
<xivulon> It needs to be branded for the different ubuntu flavors. I guess that mostly involves changing the icon and the header bmp on the top left.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-07
<xivulo1> if anyone is interested in helping out on the artwork for the ubuntu windows installer, please let me know via email (gmail): agostino . russo
<troy_s> kwwii: Added yet another to the wiki.  On a side note, if you have the 'shorterlist' finished, I can do the leg work of montaging them and such.
<kwwii> troy_s: cool, I'll check it out...the list should go online by monday I guess
<kwwii> I'll let you know if I need help :-)
* kwwii spent several hours yesterday cleaning out the mail queue - what fun
<kwwii> it is now empty and I intend to keep it that way
<kwwii> I could use some ideas on formating the page...let's talk about that when the list is ready
<troy_s> kwwii: Well _someone_ had to clean that queue out.
<troy_s> kwwii: I offered to volunteer for some of it, but there wasn't a reply.
<kwwii> seems like the moderators that are listed are not very active anymore
<kwwii> we should have a meeting sometime soon and work out that and a couple of other issues
<troy_s> kwwii: At any rate, let me know.  I have a boatload of stuffs to click on this weekend re the other projects, but default bits will have some time allocated assuming need.
<kwwii> cool, will do
<troy_s> kwwii: Did skuttlebiscuit have anything to say about any of the subs?
<kwwii> yeah, I think he was amazed at how many nice pics there are on that page
<troy_s> kwwii: Lol.  Same as always.  Edgydejavu.
<kwwii> he sent me a list of his favorites...I am going to combine that with my favorites and a couple others from the comments on the wiki, etc
<troy_s> kwwii: The problem was more about steering (as can be again exemplified by the almost identical state of affairs.)
<troy_s> kwwii: What was he leaning towards?  It could probably help to generate further things along similar lines.
<kwwii> 4874 from joseph seems to be his favorite so far (that is also the one I tweaked and put with my first submissions)
<troy_s> (although who knows.  It seems a big enough struggle to get the same hue as the samples provided)
<troy_s> Yeah figured as much.  It is a bloody blows knockoff from win98
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> it is not only a problem of getting the hue right
<kwwii> I found that simply taking a design and using the same colors doesn't work well
<kwwii> it really depends on the individual design
<kwwii> heh? I do not remember win98 having a background like that
<troy_s> kwwii: Sure, unless you are developing for shuttle.  His hue sense tends to be in direct relationship to something else.
<kwwii> wow, mystical is pretty awesome
<troy_s> kwwii: Uh... let me see if I can dig it up.
<troy_s> kwwii: It was vaguely like the vista wallpaper -- but more sweepy curvey -- just like xubuntu's (well almost identical)
<troy_s> kwwii: More or less a tweaked time lapsed light based bit of photography.
<kwwii> luckily I am an old school mac user so nobody can say I copied windows :p
<troy_s> kwwii:  I found vista's ocean referential wallpaper interesting in tones though.
<kwwii> those pics from joseph are all made from photographs
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes... they look suspiciously like long term exposures.
<kwwii> never seen that
<troy_s> kwwii: Vista's default?
<kwwii> never even seen vista :p
<troy_s> kwwii: A few bits of ocean rays more or less (although it is restated enough that it is not quite 'underwater')
<kwwii> cool, I should google for it
<troy_s> http://www.piplos.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/windows-vista-aurora-wallpaper.jpg
<troy_s> Ocean tone + rays + sweepy bloody curves.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> wow, that is the default in vista?
<kwwii> I wonder why they couldn't get something better
<troy_s> kwwii: Well it is pretty well executed in my mind.  Albeit about 5 years overdone.
<troy_s> kwwii: Leopard's new wallpaper isn't much better, but is probably symptomatic of a larger move away from that glassy shiny plastic.
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> kwwii: You have seen the silverlight promo -- its close to that xp style (which appears to be what shuts is heading for)
<troy_s> http://www.bit-101.com/misc/silverlight_wallpaper.jpg
<troy_s> which was close to osx's wall from <can't remember version)
<troy_s> http://www.bit-101.com/misc/panther_wallpaper.jpg
<kwwii> actually I do not think that mark is really pushing for something like that but it is, in his eyes, one of the better pics of those available on the wiki
<troy_s> But the vista thing very clearly takes some cues from underwater photography -- which is rather interesting as it tends to translate well to the abstracts.
<kwwii> I guess he did not see your versions (unless he checks the wiki often which I doubt
<troy_s> http://xtreview.com/images/windows-vista-5728/vista-first-install-screen.jpg
<troy_s> i doubt he would like either quite frankly.
<kwwii> I like that background better than the whole desktop
<troy_s> the fucking monochrome thing must die.
<troy_s> it really is a deal breaker.
<kwwii> the desktop pic (as compared to the installer) has very distracting lines (and the part on the lower right looks crappy, if you ask me)
<troy_s> you can't even fully execute a sense of 'awe' or anything close when you are locked into a single hue with only varying value.
<troy_s> the contrast of hues is what helps to deliver that.
<kwwii> I agree with that - I will talk to him about the whole direction in october
<kwwii> I am trying to avoid discussing this with him per email
<troy_s> the problem is you can't say things like 'In oil painting it is common to use a highlight composed of the complimentary colour'
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> Anywho... I'm off for yet another night shoot's sleep.
<troy_s> Hit me with email or whatever.
<kwwii> sleep well
<kwwii> I will
<troy_s> That brown elephant texture is pretty bloody amazing.
<troy_s> Although my personal vote goes for Physalis
<andreasn> I thought the elephant was nice as well
<andreasn> although picking a default wallpaper is hell, so I'm staying out of this discussion :)
<lapo> hi
<titanix88> hey nothlit
<titanix88> anyone there?
<nothlit> titanix88: heyas
* nothlit looks for the blend :P
<titanix88> nothlit : i upload it in the attachments!
<titanix88> gutsy incoming wiki...
<nothlit> ooh its there now :D
<titanix88> nothlit what abt the second one?
<nothlit> titanix88: thats an interesting backdrop
<nothlit> titanix88: you may want to go with more interesting placement, or angles
<nothlit> also fiddle with the lighting, and play with the thickness and bevel of the logo a bit so its not standard
<nothlit> and get rid of the plastic look =p
<titanix88> download the 2nd .blend and find what i didn't do there . but in the end i some how could not like a perspective.
<titanix88> it is beveled. 3d. the second layer has a particle generated logo which i did not use.
<titanix88> maybe u can configure it for me.
<titanix88> only creative was the background i say:(
<nothlit> titanix88: import the svg, and once you convert it to a mesh, extrude the faces gradually or however you want to do it
<nothlit> you can join it all together for easier editing
<nothlit> and then just vertex paint it or assign vertices materials
<nothlit> titanix88: yeah creative use of bumpmapping :)
<titanix88> i do not have time anymore as i have to go back to my hoestel tommorrow. :(
<titanix88> nothlit:anyone will say it's a plain 2d logo. but it is not.;)
<nothlit> titanix88: you could also create an interesting form and then assign it as the bevel object for your representative logo curves
<nothlit> titanix88: lol :)
<titanix88> one interesting exp: i tried to engrave it one a cube and then boolean took 2hours.lol
<nothlit> yeah blender booleans are supposed to suck
<titanix88> why?
<nothlit> underworked area of code
<nothlit> there is a script though, but you could also just use a different modeler
<titanix88> i dont like the way curve to mesh looks.
<titanix88> u can never subdivide a converted mesh frm curve. it will look ugly as hell.
<nothlit> titanix88: you can choose how many steps you want in the curve properties
<titanix88> i mean lot's of triangular faces makes it harder to control
<nothlit> oh lol
<titanix88> nothlit: btw u wanna improve it?
<nothlit> nah i have a few ideas i'm fiddling with
<nothlit> titanix88: this was my happy accident yesterday with a little bit of photoshopping https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/buntuindigo.png
<_titanix88> i'm back.
<_titanix88> so...
<nothlit> oh
<nothlit> did you get any of my messages?
<_titanix88> no
<_titanix88> :(
<nothlit> 03:10:45 < titanix88> nothlit: btw u wanna improve it?
<nothlit> 03:10:59 < nothlit> nah i have a few ideas i'm fiddling with
<nothlit> 03:11:32 < nothlit> titanix88: this was my happy accident yesterday with a little bit of photoshopping https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/buntuindigo.png
<_titanix88> got it.congrats!
<_titanix88> got to go! bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-08
<titanix88> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-01
<kwwii> moin
<zniavre> bonjour
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! seen the mail from gerry? will you attend the community council tomorrow?
<thorwil> welcome _MMA_
<_MMA_> Hi sir.
<_MMA_> Great mash up there. Only thing I would ask you look at is to try to capture that "bottom glow" that the Human folders have.
<_MMA_> That is one big thing Mark likes about Human.
<_MMA_> Though, I'm gonna be pushing this regardless of Canonical, I want to try to hit as many cues as we can.
<thorwil> hmm. that bottom glow doesn't make much sense in what i did
<_MMA_> kwwii: You pokin' around?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'd like to see folder icons turned into something that doesn't just say: this is a folder, but that gives at least some hints at the content
<kwwii> _MMA_: hey, just got back from my midday swim
<kwwii> thorwil: hi, got a mail from you from gerry :-)
<thorwil> right
<_MMA_> kwwii: You got an eye on my recent post to the ML? Along with thorwil's response?
<thorwil> kwwii: i really thought he could be the right one for at least strategic goals ...
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I was just looking at that
<kwwii> _MMA_: the one thing that mark really likes about the oxygen folder is the gradient from the bottom of the folder to about the middle
<kwwii> thorwil: well, he does more of the marketing stuff...at this time things are a bit confusing about artwork
<kwwii> we are in the process of hiring people and I am not sure if they know what those new people will be doing exactly
<_MMA_> Yes. I've told thorwil. I'm gonna post that to the list soon. I wanted to see what people did 1st.
<thorwil> kwwii: i would hope you are still in the process, cause i got no cancellation. on the other hand, it's scary how this gets dragged out, apparently
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, especially if they don't know exactly what the new jobs should really be doing
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> i'm highly qualified for not knowing what i should be doing plus also having others not knowing what i should be doing :>
<_MMA_> :P
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> so, if anybody is willing to try it out I put Kin, Dust and NewWave in my PPA
<_MMA_> I will in a bit.
<kwwii> cool, if you have any problems let me know
<kwwii> all three are in one package "community-themes"
<_MMA_> Cool.
<kwwii> erm, I just found an error, wait for the 0.2 package to appear to test it
<_MMA_> ï»¿kwwii: ok. I won't be doing it for a bit anyway. We're makin' breakfast atm. We're also gonna get out today since Renee is off for Labor Day.
 * _MMA_ is also watchin' the news for info about this hurricane hitting New Orleans.
<kwwii> hehe, that is what they get for living in a flood plain
<kwwii> ohhh, labor day! wish I could take today off as well
<Cimi> kwwii: ugly themes
<_MMA_> kwwii: Seriously. If I were them I would just move.
<_MMA_> kwwii: I think after this it will be a *long* time 'till it's populated like it was. It's gonna turn into a wasteland. Nobody will wanna live there.
<thorwil> that's bit of a broad judgment, lacking context and even a hint of what the consequences should be
<_MMA_> thorwil: Do you know where Im talking about?
<_MMA_> And Ill take it to PM since Im really just talking to Ken about off-topic stuff.
<thorwil> _MMA_: yes. i refered to Cimi's comment
<_MMA_> thorwil: Oh. You didn't use a name. :)
<Cimi> thorwil: did you see the themes?
<thorwil> Cimi: yes, allthough not necessarily as packaged
<Cimi> thorwil: did you see the tons of bugs?
<_MMA_> Cimi: "Ugly" depends on audience and the individual. You can have a you're opinion but saying it simply "ugly" the way you often do just makes you look bad.
<Cimi> it is not important :)
<_MMA_> What? Your opinion?
<Cimi> people can see me bad
<_MMA_> I agree.
<Cimi> I'm not frightened
<thorwil> Cimi: no. if you meant to say they are buggy, *technically* ugly, than this is an entirely different amtter
<Cimi> thorwil: bugged themes are ugly in my point of view
<_MMA_> Exactly. "Ugly" is aesthetic. "Buggy" is technical.
 * thorwil -> coffee
<_MMA_> Cimi: I highly doubt you wouldn't think they were ugly if the bugs were fixed.
<Cimi> oh yeas of course, I don't like the mix of pixmap and cairo engines, I don't like the mix of dark and bright colors, I don't like their HUE
<Cimi> I don't like the metacity with fixed colors
<Cimi> with firefox dust it totally bugged
<_MMA_> Cimi: So that is more helpful. Simply saying its "ugly" makes people respect your opinion less.
<_MMA_> Say *why* you dont like it. ;)
<Cimi> I don't care about people's opinions :)
<Cimi> the menubar on newwave has a too thick and strong shadow on its bottomÃ¹
<_MMA_> Great. Then we'll continue to think you're an ass. Offering nothing helpful but baseless negative opinion.
<_MMA_> If you dont want to be part of a team and get along, fine.
<Cimi> the notebook on newwave is ...
<_MMA_> I personally won't let you act how you want without letting you know it's wrong.
<_MMA_> Cimi: It's not for you. Thats fine. We get it.
<_MMA_> You don't have to use it. Others like it. It goes in a theme pack.
<Cimi> _MMA_: I understood what you asked me: being more polite and give explanations before writing down my opinions
<kwwii> actually, there are other parts which I did not include yet like a FF skin and such
<kwwii> the point of this effort is to encourage people to make themes for ubuntu
<kwwii> not to show off our perfect new themes
<Cimi> kwwii: but discurage using ff skins
<Cimi> just ask people better themes
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I can understand that point pretty well but FF sucks wrt themeing
<kwwii> so it is often necessary
<kwwii> FF and OO are the worst apps at themeing
<Cimi> I have said in the mailing list that dust has broken toolbars, did they fix it?
<Cimi> no, they didn't
<kwwii> Cimi: yes, it appears that they did fix it
<kwwii> lol
<Cimi> here is broken
<kwwii> I thought they did at least :p
<Cimi> they are still using a pixmap
<kwwii> yeah, without a coder to work on theme there is little other choice than using pixmaps
<Cimi> I really really don't like the newwave notebook
<Cimi> kwwii: murrine supports gradient on toolbars
<kwwii> Cimi: well, if these are really going to make it into intrepid I want to fix any of these problems
<kwwii> I am going to try and get people who are interested in these themes into a group so that they people can offer their help
<Cimi> maybe the best approach is to decide 2, three themes and start working on theme with the whole community
<Cimi> on them
<kwwii> that was kinda my idea, I thought that putting them in a PPA would help motivate people
<Cimi> _MMA_: also remember that the mailing list is not the whole community. if 20 guys liked those themes doesn't mean *others like it*
<kwwii> (and mark told me to do it for him)
<kwwii> oh, beleive me, I know that
<kwwii> the forum is even worse sometimes
<Cimi> I would really being more critic on the whole community
<Cimi> I didn't want to be rude before, and sorry _MMA_, but when I see some themes (and how they have glitches in almost every program) I become sick, and maybe nasty
<Cimi> are these really the themes we would like to show to the world?
<Cimi> let's compare new wave with vista or osx
<Cimi> ... few seconds for let you thinking ...
<_MMA_> Cimi: They are not default and the community wants them. So its great that we have a way for people to get them.
<kwwii> I don't think that we will get a theme of that quality unless we pay a developer to work on it (and even then it is hard because there is only so much you can change)
<_MMA_> kwwii: I don't agree at all.
<Cimi> in my point of view providing such themes into ubuntu is a bad marketing decision, people will say: oh see which themes is providing ubuntu
<Cimi> _MMA_: me too
<_MMA_> Cimi: Well maybe Ubuntu doesn't care about opinions just like you dont. :)
<Cimi> _MMA_: yeah we already know
<Cimi> like the neverending trolling about the brown palette :)
<_MMA_> And I don't even know if these themes will be shipped. kwwii?
<_MMA_> (might just be a add-on)
<Cimi> I don't want to speak about my two engines (clearlooks and murrine) but there are a lot of great artists that with simple gtkrcs are able to do (imho) better themes
<Cimi> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/download.php?content=80899&id=1&tan=53100537  http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/86717-1.jpg http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/files/screenshot.jpg
<kwwii> if you ask me, most of the available themes look very similar
<_MMA_> IMO light themes are easy and dont really grab me anymore.
<Cimi> we don't have a *great* light theme into ubuntu
<thorwil> kwwii: maybe because they're done with simple gtkrcs and no pixmaps? ;)
 * thorwil runs
<kwwii> lol
<Cimi> thorwil: no because they don't know how to tweak murrine :)
<_MMA_> I wish I could make dark themes better but its the app writers are screwing things. Making special widgets that don't conform to standards or hard-coding color values. Im gonna start theming KDE. ;)
<Cimi> oh, Qt developers are trying to use gtk to draw their themes
<_MMA_> And pixmaps are great. There's no reason not to use it.
<Cimi> because theming in Qt is such a pain
<Cimi> and you are asking more of that pain :)
<Cimi> _MMA_: static colors, bad quality/precision, speed, limits
<kwwii> at least with KDE you can do something a bit different whereas with gtk I feel bound to all these rules (maybe I just haven't dug deeply enough though)
<Cimi> kwwii: if you come into #murrine, there's a developer from trolltech who felt sick of kde and their artwork, and started working on the gtkstyle qt engine so he can finally use gnome themes, since he likes them more than kde's
<Cimi> and he already said that theming in qt is actually a pain
<_MMA_> "static colors" So? :) Its about audiance and what you're trying to say.
<_MMA_> "ï»¿bad quality/precision" This comes down to the person who makes the theme. They just have to take care.
<_MMA_> "ï»¿speed" Irrelevant anymore. This isnt 1995. We cant keep holding ourselves back.
<_MMA_> "ï»¿limits" Everything has it's limits.
<Cimi> pixmaps requires rescaling, and that means poor quality
<Cimi> just have a look ad a pixmap rescaling and a vectorial image
<_MMA_> Depends on where it's used.
<_MMA_> ANd how the images are made.
<Cimi> do you know how a pixmap theme works?
<_MMA_> For the most part.
<Cimi> you select the part of the image which won't be scaled, and the center of the image will be streched
<kwwii> Cimi: hehe, cool
<Cimi> speed is still relevant, you can't say it isn't :)
<Cimi> with a engine (except aurora and ubuntulooks) you have twice the speed
<_MMA_> With modern PCs, made in the last 5 years, yeah, I would say it doesn't matter.
<Cimi> limits are for example: you can't have transparencies, you can't have rounded menues, tooltips..
<Cimi> _MMA_: it really depends on the video card, some video cards still performs really slow
<Cimi> and not because of the age of the computer, but because of the drivers
<Cimi> *but because*, my english sucks too...
<Cimi> _MMA_: kwwii: Ken Vermette is the most talented guy on our mailing list
<Cimi> even if his kin dust could be so much better with a custom gtkrc
<Cimi> kwwii: please tell him how to play with gradients
<kwwii> yeah, I think that we will have to work on a few things :-)
<Cimi> _MMA_: are you there?
<_MMA_> Kinda. Im handling some major issues for Studio as well as planning the day with the family.
<Cimi> _MMA_: OT: is there a shot/preview of the studio intrepid artwork? I heard of good opinions about it but I haven't find a sscreenshot yet
<Cimi> anyway good afternoon/morning/day with your family ;)
<_MMA_> Ill get you a package but I doubt you'll like it. :) I do think you would be a help with some "technical" issues. I don't want any aesthetic changes. :)
<_MMA_> But Ill be back in a bit.
<Cimi> _MMA_: why you are saying that I won't like it
<_MMA_> Because you've said you don't like dark themes.
<Cimi> neversaid such thing
<Cimi> I have said I don't like the mania to propose light themes with a dark menubar
<Cimi> in my point of view a theme should be dark or light, not a mix that tries to remember osx, but it fails
<Cimi> (osx has dark toolbars and light window background)
<_MMA_> Cimi: A year and a half ago, when we (Studio) were the 1st to ship Murrine, you were working with me and you said it. :) I remember.
<_MMA_> But Ill bbl.
<Cimi> bye, then :)
<Cimi> poke me when you'll come back
<Cimi> I was so bad with newwave and dust because they really look as a regression to my eyes over the few themes we already have. 5 years ago people did better themes using pixmaps, now it seems like the community is full of teenagers that should be more humble and start studying gtk+ theming before approaching. the quality gone away. I have nothing against teenagers (I was a teenager few years ago), but before asking to i
<CIA-42> acimitan * r53 murrine/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
<CIA-42> 2008-09-01 Andrea Cimitan <andrea.cimitan@gmail.com>
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_rc_style.c (murrine_rc_style_register_types),
<CIA-42>  (murrine_rc_style_finalize), (murrine_rc_style_class_init),
<CIA-42>  (murrine_rc_style_class_finalize), (murrine_rc_style_merge):
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_rc_style.h:
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_style.c (murrine_set_widget_parameters),
<thorwil> kwwii: you might want to also post a link / short explanation of ppa
<CimiDS> kwwii, did you find any changes to be done in murrine?
<kwwii> CimiDS: to be honest, I am so busy that I haven't had a chance
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, good point
<CimiDS> kwwii, I mean during these last months
<kwwii> CimiDS: well, I would like something that allows me to really define every little part but to be honest I probably don't know all the options that it can already handle
<kwwii> CimiDS: my fist suggestion would be to document what it can already do :-)
<CimiDS> kwwii, latest versions are providing a schema file under /usr/share/gtk-engines/murrine.xml
<CimiDS> maybe they should require more lines
<CimiDS> the problem i usually seen is that guys don't know that the can define one engine section for each wudget allowing to mixing a lot of styles
<CimiDS> take a look at newwave or dust
<CimiDS> menubars and toolbars can be done with murrine using a custom gradient under the menubar and toolbar sections
<CimiDS> of the gtkrc
<CimiDS> but they are still usingpixmaps, and firefox will look ugly :)
<CimiDS> with a white border around the addressand search bar
<kwwii> CimiDS: I have been very hesitant to use more than one engine
<kwwii> not sure how stable that is, really
<Cimi> kwwii: I haven't said use two engines
<Cimi> kwwii: use two different istances of murrine
<_MMA_> (with different options)
<kwwii> ahh, right, I knew that :-)
<Cimi> _MMA_: shot? :)
<_MMA_> Sorry man. I have too much going on right now. Ill get you one soon.
<Cimi> ok, I will go to bed in 3 hours
<Mariuxtheone> Hi there
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-02
<Cimi> _MMA_: got something?
<_MMA_> Cimi: No. Today is/has been very busy. I will get you something tomorrow.
<Cimi> _MMA_: ok dude, I'm going to bed now, see you tomorrow -evening- (I won't be online tomorrow)
<Cimi> bye bye and goodnight
<_MMA_> Night
<CIA-42> acimitan * r54 murrine/ (ChangeLog src/murrine_style.c):
<CIA-42> 2008-09-02 Andrea Cimitan <andrea.cimitan@gmail.com>
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_style.c (murrine_style_draw_box):
<CIA-42>  Added Clearlooks ability to draw better menuitem separators using
<CIA-42>  style properties. Read from Clearlooks gtkrc for more info
<Ziroday> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> Ziroday: pong
<Ziroday> kwwii: about the deviantart thing
<Ziroday> been trying to get hold of someone there for the last couple of weeks
<Ziroday> but have recieved absolutely zero replies
<kwwii> hehe, that is what I thought would happen
<Ziroday> at least hoped the would answer my mails :(
<kwwii> yeah, that sounds pretty unfriendly to me
<Ziroday> so I guess there not interested anymore
<kwwii> well, the person who suggested it had nothing to do with deviantart I think
<kwwii> so I am unsure if they were ever interested
<Ziroday> in the spec they say they had a meeting with them
<Ziroday> with a Danielly McKay and Ernie Wisco
<kwwii> ahhaaa, I did not know that
<Ziroday> http://is.gd/28mw <- in the whiteboard section
<kwwii> hrm, looking at that it seems that it was simply dropped
<Ziroday> but anyway it doesn't seem to be going anywhere currently, I will keep bugging them but I have a feeling that this spec is dead
<Ziroday> unless you have any ideas?
<kwwii> to be honest, for intrepid it is almost too late.
<kwwii> if it failed because we did not offer prizes someone needs to step up and discuss this with the appropriate person at canonical
<kwwii> although that might have been a problem as well, I have no idea who at canonical would be responsible for this
<Ziroday> alrighty
<Ziroday> well have to go now, dinner
<Ziroday> kwwii: you have a great night
<kwwii> let's discuss it when you have time, perhaps we can work something out for the next release
<Ziroday> kwwii: sure, on irc?
<kwwii> either irc or email, whichever is easier for oyu
<Ziroday> awesome
<Ziroday> g'night
<kwwii> night, enjoy your meal
<elkbuntu> kwwii, the marketing people would be an appropriate starting point, no?
<kwwii> elkbuntu: you would think so, but I get the feeling that they were involved in the last discussions and had no idea what to do
<kwwii> UDS would be the perfect time to work it out
<elkbuntu> yeah
<thorwil> _MMA_: say, that oxygen folder icon you used, is that the "closed" folder?
<_MMA_> ï»¿thorwil: I believe so.
<thorwil> same for the human folder, i suppose
<thorwil> oh, but kwwii asked ken v. for closed
<_MMA_> Yep
<thorwil> 0.o
<_MMA_> thorwil: Good post. I'll reply in a min. I'm kinda waiting on some more chat about the name to create the wiki pages. Your ideas will be included on them.
 * thorwil nods
<_MMA_> The "sphere and a box" thing was something about as well but was unsure how to get across. You said it just fine.
<_MMA_> gah *something I though about...
 * _MMA_ can't type.
 * thorwil think the mailing list is like an animal that must be fed with good stuff constantly so it will not get bored
<_MMA_> hahaha
<kwwii> no doubt
<_MMA_> Ooooo.... Look at Ken V's new post. :P http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/example_mk3.png
<kwwii> very nice
<zniavre> hello
<zniavre> do i have any chance to get small  interest with this kind of theme in artwort current cycle ? http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/9/2/f_hardy2m_5b6c939.jpg
<_MMA_> Current cycle? No. Another no to using a wallpaper we don't have license to use along with what looks to be Vista and OSX icons.
<zniavre> artwork *
<zniavre> sorry link-failure
<zniavre> did you add something i should know?
<_MMA_> "ï»¿zniavre: do i have any chance to get small  interest with this kind of theme in artwort current cycle ? http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/9/2/f_hardy2m_5b6c939.jpg"
<_MMA_> ï»¿Current cycle? No. Another no to using a wallpaper we don't have license to use along with what looks to be Vista and OSX icons.
<_MMA_> That's it.
<zniavre> ok
<zniavre> thank you
<thorwil> _MMA_: zulu word for breath or something related? :)
 * kwwii heads out band practice...bbl
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. Im open. Can't be too complex though. Something short and memorable.
<thorwil> now, do we know someone who speaks it?
<thorwil> uh oh
<thorwil> umphefumulo
<thorwil> http://isizulu.net/
<thorwil> umoyana for light wind
<thorwil> umoya for air
<thorwil> *shrug*
 * thorwil -> dinner
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> umoya ain't bad.
<Cimi> it seems that finally we can compile gegl with 16bit dithering... should be really useful for your wallpapers
<_MMA_> Cimi: Is CIA-43 your bot?
<Cimi> yeah i have added to advice kwwii of the new changes in the code, but i can remove it if you want
<_MMA_> Yeah. It's printing all kinds of info I don't really think is relevant to the channel. kwwii wondered as well.
<Cimi> it should be relevant since we will have 3-4 themes based to this code
<Cimi> btw no problem
<_MMA_> Most in here could care less I think. A note to the ML about cool new features from time to time would do. :)
<Cimi> [i'm not so happy in involving the community too much...] anyway i will drop that bot in few hours
<Cimi> kwwii, in my point of view metacity themes for intrepid need a retouch
<Cimi> much more than the gtk themes
<_MMA_> Cimi: He's at band practice. And I'll PM you Studio Intrepid theme in a sec.
<Cimi> _mma_ i'm on my nintendo ds
<Serway> Cimi, what!
<_MMA_> Ahh.. hehe. Ok. Lemmie know when you are ready.
<Cimi> Serway, ?
<Serway> Cimi, you are typing from your ds?
<Cimi> yes I am
<Serway> thats impressive
<Cimi> [19:13] CTCP-> Cimi: VERSION
<Cimi> [19:13] -> <Cimi:CTCP> VERSION
<Cimi> [19:14] -Cimi- VERSION ClIRC v0.04 by Cluster (running on Nintendo DS)
<Cimi> :)
<Serway> thats great, might i ask, are you the same cimi as cimitan?
<Cimi> Serway, yes
<Serway> thats great man, i have been using your themes since they came out
<Serway> right now i have been caught on the "glow" train, but i installed murrine-svn last night to see the new rgba improvements, and its really nice aesthetically
<DanaG> I still like rounded scrollbars too much to go to Murrine.
<Cimi> the problem is that if you run  RGBA withoutthe compiz blur plugin is kinda ugly
<Cimi> DanaG, ehehe
<Serway> DanaG, i know where you are coming from haha
<DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
<_MMA_> Cimi: (email sent)
<Cimi> _MMA_, thx
<rsc_> hey fellas!
<xanax`> hi
<rsc_> anything interesting happening here?
<rsc_> :)
<thorwil> rsc_: sometimes. but for today it might be over ;)
<thorwil> aha, rico
<thorwil> rsc_: Kenneth is kwwii here and out to a band practice. Cory K. is _MMA_
<thorwil> just so you know the most important people here
<thorwil> rsc_: oh, and it is the whole point of the name for the new icon theme to remind of oxygen
<rsc_> yes rico here
<rsc_> oh cool
<rsc_> :)
<rsc_> just thought it'd be frowned upon by the kde crowd.
<thorwil> hmm. maybe the will laugh about their stuff ending up in gnome world, to some degree ;)
<thorwil> they, even
<rsc_> hah.
<thorwil> Kenneth is ok with it, apparently
<rsc_> so any interesting developments in the ubuntu artwork front? :)
<thorwil> rsc_: you might be surprised by finding a piece of your background in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=grunge-with-cal-icon.jpg
<thorwil> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners
<rsc_> ooh, whos that from?
<thorwil> rsc_: the new icon theme effort is _the_ interesting development here, currently
<rsc_> ah, i'm all for it.
<rsc_> personally im not a fan of the orange folders though :)
<rsc_> but jesus yeah, the icons need an overhaul.
<rsc_> are we sticking to the tango guidelines?
<rsc_> tango borders, tango palette, etc?
<thorwil> rsc_: it's from a MadsRH. i might have his email adress. already gave him a subtle hint to give credit/reference, but i guess it was too subtle. i wouldn't care, personally, though
<rsc_> i wouldn't mind if he didn't credit either
<thorwil> rsc_: i also have my problems with the intense orange
<thorwil> rsc_: tango is the enemy as far as borders are concerned ;)
<thorwil> ugh
<_MMA_> thorwil: kwwii has already ran the icon thing past the Oxygen artists. They are fine with it. Hopefully, we can get them on board for our effort. In the end, it's another chance to be artistic. Whatever the DE.
<Cimi> _MMA_: you have a new mail
<_MMA_> I saw.
<_MMA_> Not quite what the screenshot I sent you the link to is about but still neat. Im trying to get the inactive buttons in the windowlist to have no borders.
<_MMA_> Cimi: Can I use the gradient the way you've defined it there on the entire panel? Without the need for the .png?
<Cimi> _MMA_: as I said, you can
<Cimi> but you have to use the pixmap engine
<Cimi> _MMA_: I don't think so unfortunately
<_MMA_> Ok.
<DanaG> I like matte things, like that "oxygen + human" one.
<DanaG> I'm currently using Tangerine.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-03
<zerwas> kwwii: Thanks for packaging the themes in your PPA!
<Cimi> even if they are ugly!
<Cimi> ahahah
 * Cimi jokes
<DanaG> http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ -- hmm, now it uses the second revision Heron.
<rsc_> hey fellas.
<ambrin> hello
<CIA-42> acimitan * r55 murrine/ (ChangeLog src/murrine_style.c):
<CIA-42> 2008-09-03 Andrea Cimitan <andrea.cimitan@gmail.com>
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_style.c (murrine_style_realize):
<CIA-42>  Reworked contrast function, your themes may change
<CIA-42> acimitan * r56 murrine/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
<CIA-42> 2008-09-03 Andrea Cimitan <andrea.cimitan@gmail.com>
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_draw.c (murrine_draw_tab), (murrine_draw_separator),
<CIA-42>  (murrine_draw_toolbar), (murrine_draw_statusbar),
<CIA-42>  (murrine_draw_resize_grip):
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_draw_rgba.c (murrine_rgba_draw_tab):
<CIA-42>  * src/murrine_style.c (murrine_style_realize):
<rsc_> hey fellas.
<Cimi1> oh finally
<Cimi1> _MMA_: sorry for the spam, just remembered to remove it
<Cimi1> anyway I have reworked the contrast function, now works really well
<_MMA_> :)
<thorwil> hi ho!
<thorwil> kwwii, _MMA_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/09/02/%23ubuntu-meeting.html at the bottom, 22:01
 * _MMA_ clicks
<_MMA_> thorwil: I've had absolutely no doubt that community theme will or could be in Ubuntu. It's the default process that's the issue. In the end, Mark has said nothing new in that log.
<thorwil> _MMA_: a main target audience suggestion directly from him is new to me
<thorwil> _MMA_: i think we should join forces and see if the icon train can be made to role on the rails fresh out of project kyudo ;)
<_MMA_> Sure.
<thorwil> sadly i had to accept a not at all exciting half-day job, which could have quite an impact on my productivity
<_MMA_> Ill will be working alot soon as well. But it shouldn't effect my ability to *manage* the technical side of this new icon set effort.
<kwwii> erm, which part of the log is interesting?
<kwwii> sorry, I see it now
<thorwil> _MMA_: i have to do a little work for the countdown banners, as that will be a now or never job. then i hope i can finish the outline of kyudo, put it on the wiki, let you know first and perhaps right after announce on list
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. Ill have the framework of the iconset wiki pages up in a day or so.
<kwwii> I have heard much of that same stuff before, nothing really new...it is important to point out that promises like that have really pissed people off in the past though
<thorwil> kwwii: as i mentined the countdown banners, i have to thank you for giving me the inspiration for the spiraling dots ;)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners
<thorwil> kwwii: you mean regarding getting themes shipped?
<rsc_> hey guys.
<thorwil> hi rsc_
<_MMA_> Yeah. Not to be a pessimist but there's really nothing new there. :( What we *will* accomplish with this new set is that it will be so good it will *have* to be default. :P
<thorwil> rsc_: are you properly subscribed to the art list now?
<rsc_> i think so.
<_MMA_> I don't think there will be enough space for it otherwise. :)
<rsc_> I'm using nabble, does that mean i'm 'properly subscribed'?
<thorwil> uhm, no
<rsc_> oops
<rsc_> what's the best way to read through the list?
<_MMA_> Well he's been replying to the list.
<_MMA_> HE should be on unless Ken is putting his posts through.
<thorwil> rsc_: while everyone should use what serves him best, i share _MMA_ impresion that you didn't notice all mails
<rsc_> ah, sorry aobut that.
<_MMA_> He could have subscribed late. :)
<rsc_> yeah, i miss a few.
<kwwii> I have not been putting anyone's posts through
<thorwil> rsc_: so not using nabble myself, i can only suggest that you subscribe directly with you email adress
<kwwii> too much time wasted on that
<kwwii> so if you can post to the list, you are on it
<_MMA_> But I don't know how "nabble" works.
<thorwil> me neither, apparently
<rsc_> i remember i ended up on nabble while googling for ubuntu art discussions.
<rsc_> i thought it was a message board at first actually
<thorwil> heh
<rsc_> heh :)
<thorwil> it often appears high in search result for all lists that run there
<rsc_> are we really going with the orange folder icons, btw?
<_MMA_> Yes
<rsc_> heh okay :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Looks like you have a +1 for ï»¿"Umoya" from kwwii.
<kwwii> oops, server reboot
<_MMA_> :)
<Cimi> kwwii: new feature for murrine
<Cimi> kwwii: I've rewritten the contrast function now it works muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better
<_MMA_> :P
<Cimi> http://www.cimitan.com/tmp/new-contrast
<Cimi> screenshot
<Cimi> 0.2, 1.0 and 1.5
<Cimi> you can see how well it is managed
<_MMA_> Nice. :)
<_MMA_> Cimi: How would you ï»¿translate "un pezzo alla volta" into English? If you can try. :)
<Cimi> which context?
<_MMA_> "ï»¿bit off more than you could chew" Maybe?
<Cimi> i would say step by step
<_MMA_> Ok. I think I got it.
 * thorwil would like to have a contrast slider in appearance settings
<thorwil> as i think it helps to adapt the theme to varying viewing conditions and eyesight of the user
<_MMA_> Nice idea.
<andreasn> thorwil: like screen brightness controls you mean?
<_MMA_> I think something that just controls the theme. Like the current color controls.
<thorwil> andreasn: rather screen contrast. the effect is slightly different, though
<_MMA_> I think XFCE has brightness/color controls.
<thorwil> troy could turn down contrast to declunck to his lighting, while my mother could increase it for her old eyes ;)
<siekacz> is it possible, that wall light will be implented in 8.10?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i know that KDE had such a slider. maybe still has
<andreasn> thorwil: I'm just thinking that you might not only fix the contrast for the controls, but for the content as well
<andreasn> like websites or so
<thorwil> hmm
<thorwil> s/lighting/liking
<andreasn> I would certainly like a brightness/color tool in GNOME control center though
<_MMA_> ï»¿siekacz: Wall light is only "pretty". (to some) What actual code is there is buggy. There is no license to the wallpaper and IMO looks too much like a Mac layout. (this is a chat carried over from #ubuntu-devel)
<andreasn> maybe I can bring the idea up with Thomas Wood
<siekacz> current theme ism't "pretty" at all
<_MMA_> Everyone has their own opinion.
<thorwil> no, i havn't!! ;)
<_MMA_> In any case, "Wall Light" isn't going into Ubuntu.
<siekacz> Ubuntu has the same theme since... 6.06?
<_MMA_> There are more reasons that aesthetic ones.
<thorwil> siekacz: do you want to be productive in some way or continue to complain here?
<_MMA_> siekacz: Trust me. This is a chat this channel has seen all too many times. We have an answer for everything. It's not gonna happen. :) I welcome your work to get "Wall Light" from a concept (more or less) to a fully functioning reality.
<siekacz> Human is just a little bit... poor, Ubuntu needs some changes. i think you will agree with me?
<_MMA_> People have agreed for a while. Being in agreement doesn't do anything. Work does. :)
<thorwil> in some way, the whole existance of this channel and the art mailing list is about change ;)
<_MMA_> This really isn't a chat I wanna have for the 100th time so I'll just hush.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Did you see that kwwii liked ï»¿"Umoya"?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i saw you telling me
<_MMA_> Ok.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i only hope isizulu isn't a scam ;)
<thorwil> like, it actually means stench or something :)
<_MMA_> If there is no stand out name over the next day Ill go with that. We can always change it. ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<siekacz> is something going to change in Ubuntu(maybe not in 8.10, but 9.04, 9.10 etc)?
<_MMA_> Things change in every release. Just not as radically as people might want. So its safe to say, yes. Things will change.
<Cimi> I ported Google Chrome's design using the new contrast function in few easy steps :)
<_MMA_> hahahah. Nice. :)
<Cimi> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5339/schermatawz3.png
<siekacz> hmmm... Nice theme...
<kwwii> _MMA_: did you ask the guy who made the wall light stuff about the license?
<kwwii> ohhh, a baby blue UI
<_MMA_> kwwii: As I don't personally care for the theme, I haven't dug into it.
<kwwii> _MMA_: cool, just wanted to ask...I'd like to put that wood bg in and see what people think
<_MMA_> Sure. Maybe as paid art guy you can track down a license. :)
<kwwii> I sent him an email, but thought if you already knew it might be quicker :-)
<_MMA_> Naa... I know only what we talked about the other day.
<siekacz> Someone eho created Wall Light, created a problem for ubuntu-artwork team too ;)
<siekacz> *who
<rsc_> re: wall light background, i think it wouldn't be hard to track down a similar wood texture (from royalty-free sources) and create a background for Ubuntu.
<rsc_> *ponders*
 * thorwil suspects such a wood design is one of those things that appear to be simple, but are tricky to get right
<siekacz> bbl
<thorwil> the google chrome comic is brilliant
<_MMA_> rsc_: Go to a flooring store and take pictures. It's totally doable to copy. Will just take the right person.
<kwwii> _MMA_: freaky, I just now recieved your email about the system sounds
<rsc_> haha speaking of wood, here's something I threw together a few months back.  just thought i'd share. http://customize.org/screenshots/57766
<_MMA_> kwwii: Odd.
<thorwil> kwwii, _MMA_ same here
<_MMA_> rsc_: Has my Studio logo but not really a "Studio" feel. That said, it looks nice.
<thorwil> outdoor studio feel :)
<_MMA_> :)
<rsc_> ah, yeah. wasn't really trying a "studio" feel but I just thought it was nice to have.
<rsc_> more of a "for personal use" desktop than a "for mass consumption" one, anyway. :)
<_MMA_> rsc_: The Studio art for Intrepid+1 is *WIDE* open. If you're interested, stick around.
<rsc_> cool.
<_MMA_> Well wide open other than *having* to be a dark theme.
<kwwii> wow, that link killed my FF
<kwwii> !you sunk my battleship!
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<thorwil> lol
<rsc_> !you know the last digit of pi, don't you?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<rsc_> heh :)
<_MMA_> !pi
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pi
<thorwil> from #ubuntu-desktop: <lapo>  is oxygen+human really going to be the default icon theme on gnome for hardy+1?
<_MMA_> thorwil: Ask him to come in here.
<thorwil> did
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> thorwil: Lemmie know if more is said and If I need to go there.
<thorwil> <lapo> thorwil: this one sounds a tad scary to me: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-September/007559.html
<_MMA_> Doesn't have a clue. Oh well. Here's the place to talk about it anyhow.
<thorwil> <thorwil> lapo: you should read there. word for word. don't jump to conclusions. don't start silly rumors. pick the appropriate channel!
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> I can just see this all getting Dugg or some crap.
<thorwil> digg isn't all that bad. it's just like a giant horde of sheep that shit all over your place and move on. there are also some signs of intelligence in between, but you have to wash the shit away first
 * thorwil -> dinner
<_MMA_> With having moved 2 kids out of diapers already, I'm done washin' shit. :P
<thorwil> _MMA_: i bet Umoya is way more google friendly than Breath and much less likely to be misunderstood as just the word ;)
<_MMA_> Yeah. It's gonna be a tough choice. I'd pick a Zulu or African word that was a more direct translation of "Breathe" if I could.
<_MMA_> Ubuntu Studio was going to be called "Dala Linux" at one point. dala=create in Zulu
<thorwil> oxygen in japanese: sanso
<thorwil> breath: kokyuu, kisoku, ibuki, iki
<_MMA_> Hmm.... Don't think we should stick closer to something African? Though, I'm fine trying to pull in other cultures.
<thorwil> _MMA_: was just a thought because i picked kyudo ;)
<thorwil> i prefer umoya simply based on imaginary pronunciation :)
<_MMA_> Yeah. I *think* I'll go with "Breathe" for now. Work under that and see how names go. We can always change later. What's important now is that work starts.
<thorwil> with e? oh
<_MMA_> Yeah. See my last post to the ML? I can't spell. :)
<_MMA_> ï»¿"Breathe - Because humans need oxygen". Man I like that. :)
<thorwil> lets have a boozy icon in that theme ;)
<_MMA_> "boozy"?
<thorwil> "to have boozy breath"
 * thorwil was looking in the dictionary
<_MMA_> Like you've been drinkin'? :)
<thorwil> yes. doesn't really  work with breathe, though
<_MMA_> But a funny nod to all the beer references in free software. :P
<_MMA_> Hell with it. I'm pullin the trigger.
<thorwil> *bang*
<DanaG> Interesting names here:  http://h50146.www5.hp.com/products/portables/personal/zen_design.html
<DanaG> Not saying you should use them; just saying it's cool that they use creative ones.
<DanaG> ... and the corresponding wallpapers:  http://h50146.www5.hp.com/products/portables/personal/zen_wallpaper/
<Delts> Not sure if this is the right place to ask but I need help with a couple of icon issues.  First is I'm using the glass icons theme (version 0.2 on gnome-look) and it has a firefox icon, but it doesn't change it when I apply the icon theme.
<Delts> My second issue, is there anyway to change the ubuntu logo in the top left whilst using a custom icon set (glass icons is what I'm aiming to use again).  I want to change it to the ubuntustudio icon since this is what I'm using
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-04
<thorwil> hello!
<thorwil> _MMA_: in every single project naming effort i observed, there have been some people who don't understand the meaning of a made decision :)
 * _MMA_ hasn't read his email yet. (about to)
<_MMA_> thorwil: I was expecting some mass of people already complaining about the name. Just 1 more post about someone thing "breathe" was gross. I agree with the reply. :)
<thorwil> yes, it's a mild case, so long
<thorwil> ugh. not a good use of the title font. http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/compiz
 * _MMA_ looks.
 * thorwil considers a "never use the ubuntu title/titling font, except if you create a label that directly combines ubuntu with another word" rule
<_MMA_> :)
<thorwil> just yesterday i was tempted to create matching number for 8.10, though. decided against as i would need the entire set 0 - 9
<_MMA_> thorwil: So, I'm gonna wait a bit before the email to the list goes out but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet if you want to tinker. I'll be working on it in a bit. (gotta get the kids off to school 1st)
<thorwil> good!
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ill be working on the structure of the set today. Would you send me a folder structure of what you think we would need? Or, do you want me to do one and you'll make any additions?
 * thorwil hopes his attempt to stop cross-posting will work
<Cimi> kwwii: you may be interested in see these examples: http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/09/04/three-new-smooth-themes-for-murrine-chrome-cream-candido/
<kwwii> _MMA_: I think that if you look at the tango theme you'll get a good idea of how the directory stucture should be
<kwwii> Cimi: what does this new contrast function do?
<_MMA_> kwwii: For instance, we *won't* have scalable because some things do not render. Right? So what larger sizes above 48px do we use? Current Oxygen sets packaged for GNOME use 64,72,96,128 as well.
<_MMA_> I'd like to *not* use those sizes is Im mistaken about the ï»¿scalable issue. (clipping paths and what not)
<kwwii> _MMA_: we still need to have scalable, even if only the large sizes are rendered from it, and if the icon does not render right we still need them there as a soure
<kwwii> I would include those dirs but only put icons in them that do not render correctly
<_MMA_> Oh wait. WTF am I talking about. Any ones that don't render right we just replace. Duh. I'll go with a standard structure.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Should we render 48px png and use ï»¿svg for anything above?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, as much as possible
<kwwii> except the ones which do not render right
<_MMA_> k
<kwwii> almost all render ok in the meantime
<kwwii> in gnome that is, in kde4 there are still problems with the renderer
<_MMA_> And any of those I say we replace.
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> sounds like a good idea as long as there is a good replacement
<kwwii> btw, we should include the scripts to render and rename things
<kwwii> I am in a metting atm, let me finish and we can discuss this more
<_MMA_> k
<Cimi> kwwii: works just better than the previous
<_MMA_> kwwii: When you're ready: Should we include 8&12px folders because Human does for the GTK close buttons or should we just start anew based on Tango? Add new as needed.
<_MMA_> brb
<kwwii> _MMA_: re
<_MMA_> yo
<kwwii> we can include those folders if we feel as if we are really going to change them
<kwwii> I was thinking about the scalable stuff
<_MMA_> Ok. We can add them as needed then.
<kwwii> and in oxygen we have extra dirs in each scalable dir for svgs of different sizes
<_MMA_> SO they would then overide the .png of the same size?
<kwwii> from those svgs you will render the png of that size
<kwwii> so you do not need it in the final theme
<_MMA_> I don't think we'll need all that. In "trunk" everything will be .svg. Then the script will render the pngs for 48px down.
<kwwii> cool, so we will only need that structure in launchpad
<_MMA_> Yep.
<_MMA_> Damn. Im gonna have to make subpages for the "Icon" section on the wiki. Otherwise, even though they will be small images, there will be alot of them.
<kwwii> ted just said something really funny...
<kwwii> I said that artists are under-valued
<kwwii> and he responded "yeah, but just like strippers they play and important part in our society"
<_MMA_> heheheheh
 * kwwii heads out to get dinner before my conf call in an hour
<_MMA_> kwwii: Beginnings of a dir structure pushed to trunk along with a index.theme file.
<kwwii> _MMA_: cool, I will check it out in a bit and have a look
<_MMA_> np
<thorwil> hmm. i think jimmac used pixel-editing a lot. no idea if he still does
<thorwil> _MMA_: i guess the if, when and how of outlines require experimentation
<thorwil> _MMA_, kwwii: what do you think of the icon sheet approach?
<thorwil> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=436
<_MMA_> thorwil: This is *the* way we should do our set. We need a base .svg and the script he uses.
<_MMA_> I wonder how cool jimmac would be with that if I asked him for it.
<thorwil> i bet he'd be cool about it
<thorwil> _MMA_: of course, being from ubuntu, we _need_ to use python, not some bloody ruby ;)
 * thorwil -> dinner
<_MMA_> thorwil: Yeah. I don't think it would be hard to convert it.
<_MMA_> I'm gonna email him.
<_MMA_> Done.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Damn. I shoulda read the comments: http://pastebin.ca/1071599.
<_MMA_> And a python implementation: http://pastebin.ca/1071649 :P
<_MMA_> ï»¿What would the "global extensions dir" for Inkscape be? "/usr/share/inkscape/extensions"?
<thorwil> that would make sense
<_MMA_> Hmm.. Im trying to install the scripts there (on the blog) for Inkscape. Nothing.
<thorwil> #inkscape is near
<_MMA_> I asked. Again, nothing.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Here's that web page he was using: http://users.freedesktop.org/~jimmac/icons
<thorwil> freakin cool, except for the issue with line-wraps
<thorwil> now imagine that with bg colour switching ;)
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> See if you can get these plugins to work: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=436 From the "Aaron Spike" guy. He has 2 in a row.
<thorwil> _MMA_: which reminds me that our icon sheets could be prepared with switchable backgrounds
<_MMA_> Sure. Im wide open to ideas.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i havn't looked at ken's ppa. maybe colours could be sampled from there, for a start?
<thorwil> http://www.ekips.org/comp/inkscape/inx/icon_workflow-plates_visibility.tar.gz?
<_MMA_> k. I was gonna chat about that when he returns.
<_MMA_> Yeah. Those.
<_MMA_> If I can get them working right, Ill make a .deb to install them. Maybe even rename it to say "Create Breathe icon template"
<thorwil> you're a brave infrastructure warrior :)
<_MMA_> I'm good at it. Others are better at the actual art. :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Oh wait. I want to get it to show up in File->New. I'm gonna try to email this guy.
<kwwii> one thing before I run out to band practice...if we need anything from inkscape just let me know, two of the main guys work for canonical :-)
<_MMA_> Yeah! But they have been no help! :P
<thorwil> bryce i know
<thorwil> ted gould?
<_MMA_> yes
<thorwil> it's amazing how the project went after splitting from sodipodi
<kwwii> both ted and bryce work for canonical
<kwwii> you might want to check out ted's bzr inkscape stuff, it is pretty cool
<kwwii> anyway, I am off
<thorwil> kwwii: have fun!
<_MMA_> Oh killer. To add a new template its just a .SVG in /usr/share/inkscape/templates.
<_MMA_> Or ~/.inkscape/templates
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> well, time for sleep
<ambrin> hi
<ambrin> i am new here -- signed up for the mailing list
<ambrin> haven't had a chance to read it yet -- but just wanted to say "hello" :)
<Domestiqules> hey all
<Domestiqules> im new to the team can anyone help me?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-05
<Domestiqules> hey everyone
<ApOgEE-> hi all
<karmaferit> **greets
<ApOgEE-> does anybody know if there is an SVG version of this shiny ubuntu logo? -->http://imagebin.org/25804
<_MMA_> thorwil: Would you mind doing up those perspective examples you mentioned for Breathe?
<thorwil> _MMA_: you mean several ways of showing a box?
<_MMA_> The "sphere and a box" thing.
 * DanaG likes his icons straight-on, not slanted.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<_MMA_> thorwil: I guess a couple of proposals would be good. Or we can just go with how Human is now.
<thorwil> _MMA_: well, one can analyze how perspective is handled in oxygen. choosing a different one would lead to some incompatibility
<thorwil> _MMA_: maybe i can do a bit on bg colours and sphere/box tomorrow morning. right now i'm deep into dots-on-a-spiral land
<_MMA_> Well that depends. The end goal is to replace everything. So we can go how we like. But, it the plan is to use some of them where suitable, just change what we like to make it fit better, then we should keep with the Oxygen perspective.
<Cimi> I'm really disappointed with your ideas of ruining years of tango guidelines
<Cimi> now that things finally looked consistend
<Cimi> *consistent
<_MMA_> Cimi: Show me where I have to use Tango. Most useful thing about Tango is the naming, and that FreeDesktop.
<_MMA_> Tango, with its heavy borders around everything, "sux". ;)
<Cimi> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<Cimi> sux? I don't think so
<_MMA_> And? :)
<_MMA_> And you said "Tango". Not NG.
<Cimi> heavy borders have their reason
<Cimi> just take a look at oxygen
<Cimi> small icons are bad
<_MMA_> Not around *everything*. That is shit.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, the Fedora icons are what I mean by 'angled' -- ugly.
<Cimi> and pinheiro, david vignini, iaconelli
<Cimi> totally agree with me
<_MMA_> So? :)
<Cimi> they are the 3 designers
<Cimi> the three main member of the oxygen team
<Cimi> and they agree that tango manages small icons a lot bette
<Cimi> r
<_MMA_> BTW, I've already been talking alot to jimman. ;)
<_MMA_> Ok. We'll do better on our set. :P
<Cimi> you can just do icons as jimmac
<Cimi> see that link
<_MMA_> I have. Its old. ï»¿I'll do them however our community decides.
<_MMA_> We'll use the base we like regardless of where it comes from. And improve where needed.
<Cimi> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/79756-1.jpg
<Cimi> this is what community likes
<Cimi> it has 82% of positive feedback and thousands of download
<_MMA_> So you're playing the elitist role?
<Cimi> "elitist" what does it mean?
<Cimi> (sorry my english sux much more than tango icons :) )
<_MMA_> You're opinion is better than everyone else's?
<Cimi> no
<Cimi> I mean that I believe more in what icon designers said. Icon designers who knows also how to make an icon visible and focused with small contrast, artists that have experience
<_MMA_> In the end this will take whatever shape the people involved put into it. Tango-NG is nowhere near ready. Oxygen is a fine modern set to base off of. We'll take what works and improve along the way.
<Cimi> I personally believe much more in you or jimmac rather than gnomelook.org community
<Cimi> I believe more in your opinions rather than in mines
<thorwil> bwahaha
<Cimi> thorwil: in icon design :)
<thorwil> <Cimi> I'm really disappointed with your ideas of ruining years of tango guidelines
<_MMA_> So, IMO, I'm not "ruining" anything. Im just not gonna make a set that inherits Tango as it is.
<Cimi> thorwil: disappointed doesn't mean "your idea sux"
<Cimi> means, I'm surprised
<thorwil> Cimi: oh common. that statement just doesnt fit you later "I believe more in your opinions rather than in mines"
<Cimi> thorwil: I haven't done any icon
<thorwil> anyway, _if_this effort takes off, it's well possible that not much of oxgen will remain
<Cimi> _MMA_ did much more than mine
<_MMA_> My kids can use Tango. Boring corporate types can also. I want something that doesn't make me feel like I'm using something drawn for blind people. :)
<Cimi> so I trust more in his statements than in mines
<Cimi> _MMA_: jimmac is colorblind :)
<_MMA_> So Ive been told. :)
<Cimi> also lapo calamandrei, another member of the tango team :)
<Cimi> he sees the sun blue
<Cimi> (jimmac told me)
<thorwil> ouch
<_MMA_> I'll happly welcome anyone that wants to create regardless of the DE. I'll be reaching out to some of the very people you mention after we set some rules. Style and such.
<Cimi> _MMA_: if you want my opinion
<thorwil> a former classmate of me, in ... ooh, vocational training as design-technical assistent also had a colour-deficiency. he used a _lot_ of blue in his designs
<_MMA_> You're welcome to give it.
<thorwil> i think tango is really good at what it is meant to be. however, we want more sex ;)
<_MMA_> hahahaha
<_MMA_> Ok. Ill bbl. (time to play with my kids)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Feel free to hack on the wiki.
<Cimi> _MMA_: I'm not too in love with the heavy borders of tango, and even the lack of details, the small palette and the lack of gradients (see gnome "flat" folders). At the same time oxygen icons are amazing with big sizes, while becomes totally unusable with small sizes. If i would write anew  guideline, I would mix the two ideas, providing a good contrast while paying more attention on the details and enhancing the pal
<_MMA_> We will border where needed. Trust me we'll work to improve upon it all. It's still no guarantee people will like it.
<Cimi> this is my opinion, which seems to stop tango project to something new and fresh.... but at the same time I don't want to ruin three years of work over those guidelines. that's why I said I'm disappointed. I don't know if Mango/Tango-NG could follow my suggestions in paying more attention to the details using a modern palette
<_MMA_> bbl.
<Cimi> I would really like to see a tango++
<Cimi> rather than a totally new project (so to avoid losing the consistent look we achieved)
<zniavre> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/79756-1.jpg >how to get this sidepanel on nautilus please?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-06
<m0u5e> where would i go to find a ubuntu svg?
<m0u5e> err ubuntu logo svg*
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<m0u5e> _MMA_: ty
<Cimi> _MMA_, did u read?
<_MMA_> Which? You last post?
<_MMA_> It was an opinion last I saw. I had nothing to say.
<Cimi> ok
<Cimi> which kind of guideline you would like to follow? are you sharing with me the same ideas?
<Cimi> in terms of contrast, design, palette
<CimiDS> [02:31] <Cimi> which kind of guideline you would like to follow? are you sharing with me the same ideas?
<CimiDS> [02:31] <Cimi> in terms of contrast, design, palette
<_MMA_> CimiDS: Maybe. Maybe not. Its late here and I should be with my family. Ill chat tomorrow. :)
<CimiDS> late? here is 2:30am :) have a nice evening with them! see you
<Domestiqules> hey everyone
<Ziroday> kwwii: ping
 * thorwil finally install community themes
<thorwil> kwwii: the new wave from your ppa is named as "New Wave", not "NewWave", right?
 * thorwil has to figure out which one is from the manual installation
<thorwil> guess it's the other way round
<kwwii> thorwil: no, from my ppa it is NewWave
<thorwil> ok, already removed the other one
<thorwil> _MMA_: hi. i have a bg color proposal now. could benefit from discussion and thinning out
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'm wondering where to put it atm
<_MMA_> thorwil: ML maybe?
<_MMA_> Get wider opinion and refine for wiki from there.
<thorwil> yeah, guess won't hurt to put it on my blog, first
<thorwil> _MMA_: i just simplified the wiki page a bit. many levels ain't nice for reading
 * _MMA_ looks.
<_MMA_> ï»¿I'll be leaving in 30 mins for about 6hrs. I'll attend to any ML posts or whatnot after that.
<thorwil> ok
<_MMA_> Yeah. The changes to the wiki are good.
<thorwil> :)
<_MMA_> I was mostly putting up info so I didn't forget without too much thought on organization.
<thorwil> that's how i tend to start, too
<thorwil> took a while until i learned that you need to just run into it and can't put everything into the right place from start :)
<_MMA_> Yeah. I just hadn't started to refine yet. I've been trying to get some of the technical stuff worked out as well.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Try your hand at using the template when you get a chance please.
<thorwil> ok
<_MMA_> bbl
<thorwil> gnah
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/define-icon-palette-via-background-colors/
<thorwil> posting to ml after coffee, bbl, too
<dilomo1> what's up with the icon wiki?
<thorwil> what should be up with it?
<ambrin> hi!
<ambrin> i am new to the gorup
<thorwil> hello ambrin
<ambrin> anything I can help with?
<ambrin> when is the next meeting?
<thorwil> ambrin: we don't do meetings these days
<ambrin> thorwil: aww why?
<thorwil> ambrin: i guess it just didn't lead to much
<thorwil> ambrin: there are some themes in https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive
<_MMA_> thorwil: We'll have one about the icons in a bit. Just wanna get things more focused.
<thorwil> ambrin: that could benefit from testing and fixes
<dilomo1> Cory said he'll set up a wiki page
<dilomo1> where artwok and concept can be uploaded
<thorwil> ambrin: for details about that, you should talk with kwwii, who is team leader an employed by canonical. it's weekend, though ... ;)
<ambrin> thorwil: yeah -- i was here on the weekdays -- it was pretty quite
<ambrin> in here
<_MMA_> dilomo1: It's a work in progress. Who are you on the ML?
<dilomo1> Anton the New Wave dev
<thorwil> ambrin: well, there are only few active people here.
<_MMA_> dilomo1: Ahh... Cool. :)
 * _MMA_ is Cory. :)
<thorwil> _MMA_ is Metal Music Addict
<_MMA_> \m/
<dilomo1> there's nothing wrong with that
<_MMA_> dilomo1: I've *not* posted about it yet intentionally but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<thorwil> ambrin: are you subscribed to the mailing list?
<_MMA_> It still needs a bit of sorting. Im adding a bit of info here and there with thorwil.
<ambrin> thorwil: yup
<dilomo1> the icon - it's cool
<dilomo1> but don't you think we need a logo
<ambrin> thorwil: did I read it yet? -- is the question :P
<dilomo1> for the whole iconset
<_MMA_> dilomo1: Its just there.
<thorwil> dilomo1: a logo takes time and shouldn't be made before we have an idea of the direction
<ambrin> it's very sad when I rather read work email vs. personal email
<thorwil> and actually it's not that important. not for our audience
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons shows an example of how its gonna look. And is hooked into Launchpad/BZR. (the preview image with the sizes and link to source SVG)
<_MMA_> So when Bzr is updated so is the wiki previews.
<dilomo1> wow that's cool
<_MMA_> dilomo1: But we're still laying the technical groundwork. I don't want anyone to have to do anything but create.
<dilomo1> I'm just looking at that One Canvas Workflow
<dilomo1> we should really provide good tools
<dilomo1> and then just create :)
<thorwil> dilomo1: a test run with it would be appreciated ;)
<_MMA_> With the template that is.
<_MMA_> I'm still in development of the script that will make the icons from the SVG. I need to edit it to do some things for us.
<_MMA_> Im not using the script stock, as-is.
<dilomo1> btw there is smth that is not so good with this One Canvas
<dilomo1> its this that you have all the icons just decreased in size
<_MMA_> And?
<dilomo1> but sometimes you need to do perpixel edit that cannot be achieved there
<_MMA_> There's *nothing* I can't do for icons in Inkscape.
<_MMA_> And a note, they are not just scaled.
<thorwil> dilomo1: Kenneth and Cory think that there's no need for pixel-editing, if you create in the target size. and if you think about it, you could always zoom in and use pixel-sized rectangles ;)
<_MMA_> They are redrawn with as much detail as needed.
 * _MMA_ has drawn with 1x1px squares in Inkscape before. :P
<_MMA_> SO I have to edit the script to make it grab the scaliable icon, preview and output them to custom dirs.
<_MMA_> I should have it done next week.
<dilomo1> nice
<_MMA_> The bzr work will be *strictly* managed but anyone will be free to take on an icon from the wiki and submit via the ML.
<dilomo1> good
<dilomo1> one more question though
<dilomo1> if we are going to create ine size icon in one file
<dilomo1> how we could import palettes in inkscape?
<_MMA_> I don't know if we're gonna have a set palette really.
<_MMA_> but the file would go in: /.inkscape/palettes
<_MMA_> IIRC
<dilomo1> I meant persets (gradients, markers, ect.)
<dilomo1> This is really annoying right now in Inkscape
<_MMA_> Don't know. Some of this we'll just have to work out as we go along.
<_MMA_> I will be grabbing the Oxygen icons and putting them into templates for us to work from. So we'll have previews of everything we'll need to change.
<_MMA_> So at 1st, it will only look like Oxygen. Then we replace as we create.
<dilomo1> that's going to make things a lot easier
<dilomo1> :)
<dilomo1> btw what's your name on ML?
<_MMA_> Everyone will see. I shoulda put more in place before talking about it.
 * _MMA_ = Cory K.
<dilomo1> :) nice to meet you
<_MMA_> same
<_MMA_> When Im not being mean to n00bs here I also run Ubuntu Studio. I act like I know what Im doing. ;)
 * _MMA_ pulls up ï»¿thorwil's email to finally read.
<dilomo1> :)
<dilomo1> what do you think this means at the Inkscape roadmap for 0.47:
<dilomo1> Palettes  Custom palettes like from Gnome  Ability to load 3rd-party palettes (e.g. Pantone, Trumatch, Focoltone, Toyo, etc.)
<dilomo1> probably is not going to work for us
<thorwil> dilomo1: one of the problems is that you will rarely see a blob of solid color. rather lots of gradients
<thorwil> dilomo1: it might help to think Material instead of Color palette
<dilomo1> yes would be better
<dilomo1> I wish pallets can store gradients too
 * _MMA_ is going to take thorwil and more knowledgeable people's word here.
<_MMA_> I'm just trying to set up some of the base technical stuff. :)
<_MMA_> Less of the aesthetic for now.
<dilomo1> nice chat guys
<dilomo1> but I have to sleep
<_MMA_> later
<dilomo1> bye
<_MMA_> thorwil: So what's the point of "Automatic Icon ColorÂ Adjustment?" A GNOME feature?
<thorwil> _MMA_: it would make our job easier
<_MMA_> But it's not something we do. It would be something GNOME did somehow right?
<thorwil> _MMA_: it's just a little developer bait thrown out ;)  i don't expect anything to happen, but expressing my ideas eases my mind
<_MMA_> Ahh... Gotcha.
 * _MMA_ reads the palette post.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i should add that the color adaption experiment can also teach us a bit about the impact of bg color
<_MMA_> Sure.
<_MMA_> ï»¿thorwil: So here, we would define a set of colors that say "Human" to us and the icons we create should work well with them? Just not necessarily use them.
<thorwil> _MMA_: we have to take ubuntu heritage, mark's insistence on certain colors and where we would like things to go into account
<_MMA_> Sure.
<thorwil> where the top part of my set is rather conservative
<_MMA_> http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bg_colors_with_cof_logo_01.png
<_MMA_> Rows 1-4?
<_MMA_> (horizontally)
<thorwil> _MMA_: all the warm tones from the icon test are not much different from what i already sampled from the human theme with heron background
<thorwil> http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bg_colors_01_i.png is the proposal
<_MMA_> Yeah
<_MMA_> Well in the end I don't have much to say. At least right now. Hopefully we can get some credible opinions on the ML while I continue to put things in place.
<thorwil> _MMA_: well, you can check if our color perception is compatible ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Notice how the ML has calmed down? Happens near the end of every cycle.
<_MMA_> On the surface, I have no issue with the colors.
<_MMA_> Never know about the future. We might hit an issue later.
<thorwil> gotta go. cya tomorrow!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-07
<rsc_> hi guys.
<thorwil> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_04_spiral.png
<thorwil> bbiab
<andreasn> thorwil: I really like that idea
<rsc_> wasn't really sure of that myself. when I first saw it, I thought "what were those dots for?" I thought it was clever when I figured it out, though.
<pwnguin> reminds me of some of the proposed boot loader stuff
<rsc_> the usplash where the ubuntu logo gets revealed in segments?
<pwnguin> i can't recall. maybe i'm thinking fedora
<rsc_> (on the note of the countdown banner, I like the hand idea more.)
<thorwil> thanks, andreasn, rsc_
<thorwil> rsc_: i've been told that inside canonical, there is a preference for the dots
<pwnguin> i imagine there's some cultural things with counting on hands
<thorwil> i might be too much work to finish both, so i'd rather keep the hands for next time ;)
<pwnguin> http://www.beijingmadeeasy.com/practical-beijing/chinese-finger-counting
<thorwil> i know that there a varying techniques around the world. more interesting would be to know whether the western style i'm used to includes what would be offensive gestures somewhere
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-31
<wers> who here is familiar with the aurora engine? :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<zniavre> FLOZz,  did you make some change to cover-thumbnailer ?
<FLOZz> zniavre: no, because I've work, so I have no many time ^^'
<zniavre> ok
<FLOZz> :/
<FLOZz> I have to implement some things... but I don't know when ^^
<zniavre> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-01
<mac_v> LP: #358526
<mac_v> Bug #358526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358526 in network-manager-applet "Notification shows wrong WiFi disconnected icon when resuming from suspend" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358526
<mac_v> kwwii: hi... why is /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/status/notification-gsm-disconnected.svg , showing full signal ? shouldnt the signals be dimmed?
<mac_v> kwwii: aernt the battery icons supposed to be vertical?
<mac_v> notify-osd*
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> kwwii: also , mat_t has reviewed the vertical battery icons and his suggestion was to make some changes to the flash , if the vertical ones are not needed , i'd rather not spend time on them ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: well, I guess it is up to you then, I like the vertical ones but I won't yell at you if you feel something else is more important
<mac_v> kwwii: no, i dont mind making them , its just seeing that you have pushed the horizontal icons , i thought so decision was taken regarding them
<mac_v> s/so/some
<kwwii> mac_v: the horizontal ones are the originals, no decision has been made on that
<mac_v> hmm... ok , i'll make the edits mat had asked for and show it ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: 1> http://imagebin.ca/view/PobxUpe.html , 2> http://imagebin.ca/view/LZA9ip.html changed the flash size and added a gradient which do you think the flash gradient is better?
<mac_v> 3> http://imagebin.ca/view/hkQyvWlo.html , very subtle differences , but became tough for me to choose after constantly looking at them ;)
 * mac_v waits for kwwii's decision
<kwwii> phone, 1min
<mac_v> sure , no probs :)
<kwwii> 2 and 3 are almost the same to my eyes
<kwwii> I like the first one better, personally
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah 2/3 are very close , so the full set similar to 1 then?
<mac_v> full set i mean the plugged ones?
<kwwii> what did mat think?
<mac_v> mat_t: ^
<mac_v> oh , i hadnt shown him the changed flash , just the gradient which i used for 1 , he liked that one too ;)
<kwwii> ok, I guess we can go with that then
<mac_v> kwwii: the new flash shape? is it fine?
<kwwii> mac_v: the top seems too short to me
<mac_v> kwwii: better now? > http://imagebin.ca/view/xtPvd9K.html
<kwwii> yes, maybe the top left corner could go one pixel to the left as well
<kwwii> making the top wider
<kwwii> you get the point
<mac_v> kwwii: like this> http://imagebin.ca/view/QuJqmIa.html , i tried this , but didnt like the shape
<mac_v> thats just 1px wider on the left , i think the previous one is better :)
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, that was what I meant but it doesn't work
<kwwii> agreed
<mac_v> kwwii: ok , i'll send them to the same ubuntu.com mail id right?
<kwwii> right
<mat_t> mac_v: sorry what is the latest version?
<mat_t> mac_v: do you have the whole set somewhere?
<mac_v> just a sec
<mac_v> mat_t:  > http://imagebin.ca/view/xtPvd9K.html
<mac_v> mat_t: kwwii i'm doing the whole set , i have found some problems , i think the flash needs to be 1px off the middle
<mat_t> mac_v: it's only one icon?
<mac_v> mat_t: oh , i showed the gradient and the new shape to kwwii  , just a sec i'm uploading the 60% and the 80%
<mat_t> ok, thx
<mac_v> kwwii: mat_t: 60% > http://imagebin.ca/view/2qipEK.html , 80% > http://imagebin.ca/view/jKwaclGt.html
<mac_v> the flash lines just merge with the battery levels , moving the flash 1px higher might solve it , but it would be not it the middle...
<mac_v> which way is better?
<mac_v> 1px higher i mean for all the icons uniformly
<kwwii> the lines should never be the same, in any case
<mac_v> kwwii: http://imagebin.ca/view/aKahfqj.html  http://imagebin.ca/view/pwLXEq3M.html , are these better ?
<mac_v> only the 60% and 80% cause this prob
<kwwii> yeah, I guess that is better
<kwwii> not sure
<kwwii> ask for another opinion :)
<mac_v> mat_t: ^?
<mac_v> mat_t: http://imagebin.ca/view/aKahfqj.html  http://imagebin.ca/view/pwLXEq3M.html , are these good ?
<mac_v> if they are OK'd , i could complete & send them :)
<mat_t> mac_v, go for it
<mac_v> ok , thankx :)
<mat_t> ;)
 * kwwii is out for the evening, bbl
<mac_v> kwwii: i'v sent the icons :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<dashua> Oh wow. That new GDM is sexxy. :)
<dashua> Works good here on Nvidia.
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23493/screenshot_009_062ywu.png
<SiDi> dashua: that'd be so neat with brown bubbles
<dashua> Yeah.  How do I change that in your branch?
<SiDi> you need to set gconf keys
<SiDi> second
<dashua> I couldn't figure it out and didn't want to screw around with the source.
<knome> hello dashua
<dashua> Latest version of notify-osd have those options or just yours?
<dashua> Hi knome
<SiDi> check src/defaults-gconf.h
<dashua> K
<SiDi> just mine, the patch isnt ported yet
<SiDi> but MacSlow said he would for karmic :o
<dashua> Is yours branched off the latest trunk or a few revisions back?
<dashua> I'm glad the bubbles are back NE
<SiDi>  /apps/notify-osd/bubble_bg_color / /apps/notify-osd/bubble_shadow_color  /apps/notify-osd/bubble_bg_opacity /apps/notify-osd/content_shadow_color /apps/notify-osd/text_title_color /apps/notify-osd/text_body_color
<SiDi> my branch is around 0.9.17
<dashua> Ah k
<SiDi> the patch is 3000 lines so i'll let MacSlow integrate it, i dont wanna sync my branch manually :p
<SiDi> all these keys are #rgb || #rrggbb
<SiDi> except opacity, float 0.0 to 1.0
<dashua> Awesome
<SiDi> there are keys for text size ratios too
<SiDi> and for hover opacity but this one isnt coded in notify-osd yet
<dashua> I'm using Version: 0.9.20-0ubuntu1 and I still don't see any gconf options?
<SiDi> dashua: they're planned for inclusion after the karmic features are developed
<SiDi> but they should be in the final karmic versio
<SiDi> +n
<dashua> Awesome.  I just tried your branch and no options either.
<SiDi> Meh
<SiDi> ItWorksHere :P
<SiDi> when running my branch, these keys dont work ?
<SiDi> There are unit tests that say they do work :P
<SiDi> (once you built and launched this version of notify-osd, and set one of these gconf keys, the result should show immediately on current bubbles)
<dashua> Hrm
<dashua> SiDi, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23498/screenshot_010_SJVG3E.png
<dashua> Something is not working for me here
<dashua> built clean and no options
<SiDi> dashua: you have to _add_ the keys :p
<dashua> Ah alright =/
<SiDi> just as any other application, notify-osd uses the default unless you _add_ keys (you just dont notice it cause they're added when you visit the preferences dialog of these apps)
<dashua> Cool, let me mess with this.
<dashua> I can feel sexxiness awaiting.
<SiDi> dashua: ofc my idea was to provide some .sh script that would switch between some basic themes
<SiDi> i cant provide a decent GUI for it and im not sure that canonical would agree on a GUI for it, but we'd have an automagical command to run for people with viewing impairments
<dashua> A script would be nice absent a GUI
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-02
<mac_v> dashua: you are using just the wallpaper or the new gdm has landed?
<lcbo> hi!
<lcbo> :(
<lcbo> bye!
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<dashua> mac_v, Both :) but it has not yet landed.
<SiDi> dashua: heya
<SiDi> did you manage to get brown bubbles in the end ? :P
<dashua> No =/
 * dashua waits for a sexxy script from SiDi
<SiDi> damn
<SiDi> i dont know how to use gconf in command line
<dashua> The fonts actually look better too in the latest iteration
<dashua> Bigger or something
<SiDi> in the latest notifyosd ?
<SiDi> yeh, they're bigger
<dashua> Yeah
<SiDi> Do you mind building my branch with --with-xfconf ? :D
<SiDi> i dont know how to use gconf
<dashua> Just add that flag in configure?
<dashua> Bah libxconf needed
<dashua> One sec
<mac_v> !gconftool
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gconftool
<mac_v> what is the value? an integer or ?
<SiDi> you're the integer :P
<SiDi> some floats & doubles
<mac_v> $gconftool -s --type int
<dashua> SiDi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/263730/
<SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/263731/
<mac_v> $gconftool -s --type bool /your/gconf/file , $gconftool -s --type int /your/gconf/file
<SiDi> dashua: make clean && make
<SiDi> its because a part of notify-osd is already built and make doesnt rebuild it, but that part contains links to gconf functions, so gcc gets lost
<SiDi> mac_v: where do i put the value ?
<mac_v> dashua: the color changes have not yet landed for gnome , SiDi is upstream ;p
<dashua> SiDi, Ok built and installed
<mac_v> SiDi: the value is in the end
<SiDi> check that pastebin above, its a sweet script
<mac_v> SiDi: is xfconf-query ? just a query or does it change the values?
<SiDi> it changes the value when you use --set
<mac_v> kwwii: hi... did you receive my mail ?
<SiDi> and then he'll mail kwwii to know if he received his irc ping !
 * SiDi hides
 * mac_v forgot to set the return receipt!
<mac_v> funny how SiDi does the same things and never finds them funny when he does it ;p
<SiDi> I doesnt do that, does it ? :P
<SiDi> And of course, things are never funny when theyre about me :P
<mac_v> SiDi: actually i got the idea , from the last time you pinged kwwii similarly for icons ;p
<SiDi> :p
<mac_v> dashua: the menu icons in hanso are from human theme?
<mac_v> or vice versa
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, got it, thanks
<mac_v> \o/ np... thanks :)
<mrdoob> afternoon/evening
<mrdoob> ...
<mrdoob> bye
<Cimi> kwwii_, GtkEntry::honors-transparent-bg-hint = 1
<SiDi> mac_v: i usually wait about 300 hours before doing hard reboots, and i have 1 udev :D
<mac_v> SiDi: when running alpha , i wonder how you can be only for 300 hrs ;p
<mac_v> s/only/online
<SiDi> i run Xubuntu Jaunty as a main system ;P
<kwwii_> Cimi: huh?
<Cimi> kwwii, you should add that to the human theme to remove white boxes around the address bar and google search box in firefox's toolbar
<Cimi> as well as removing the boxes inside webpages (long requested feature)
<kwwii> Cimi: sweet, thanks :)
<raozuzu> yes, sweet :)
<Cimi> and you should move the human metacity directly to the Trash, but that's a different issue :)
<kwwii> lol. eventually we will get through everything
<raozuzu> ahah xD
<SiDi> kwwii: hows the carbon theme going on ?
<mac_v> oooh carbon , /me likes black
<dashua> Cimi, common-gtkrc was not followed then =/
<dashua> Bah, pulseaudio is banging me up.
<Cimi> dashua, so I guess Human should be moved to the Trash too :-) I should make a post on planet gnome about it someday ;)
<dashua> Hehe
<dashua> Cimi, Anything planned for murrine?
<Cimi> absolutely not
<Cimi> and if I will have time, I guess I will get a job or I will do something for which I will be payed
<mac_v> Cimi: hi... is there any way to use a murrine button style with clearlooks prelight?
<dashua> Ah, alright.
<Cimi> mac_v, No, cause I have found the clearlooks prelight faulty in some situations
<Cimi> with color combos
<Cimi> (mainly with datk themes)
<Cimi> *dark
<mac_v> yeah
<Cimi> I should change the clearlooks focus too
<Cimi> but, as long as gnome is shipped only with one colorscheme is not to important
<mac_v> Cimi: any way of moving the murrine focus to fit the buttons rather than inside the button?
<Cimi> I'm not sure
<Cimi> I guess I have done workarounds to make it impossible :)
<Cimi> I don't want the user to change it
<mac_v> the focus , seems weird when it is inside the button , the padding is a bit too much
<mac_v> Cimi: also , can a different color be assigned to the focus, other than selected_bg_color ?
<Cimi> no, it's not weird, it is just different from what we are used to (osx)
<Cimi> for the second question... yes, use focus_color = ...
<Cimi> in murrine section of your gtkrc
<mac_v> ah
<Cimi> you can use both symbolic colors and hex
<mac_v> Cimi: but no way of adjusting the padding ? i like the new buttons but the focus is the only thing thats seems off :(
<mac_v> focus-padding        = 0 ?
<Cimi> maybe
<Cimi> or
<Cimi> focus-line-width (width of the focus border)
<Cimi> and maybe interior-focus (not sure about it)
<mac_v> Cimi: is there any list of all available variables, i could refer to?
<Cimi> those are gtk+ standard style properties
<mac_v> oh , i was wondering about murrine... its hard to understand the new variations without testing them ;)
<Cimi> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkWidget.html#GtkWidget--s-focus-padding
<Cimi> unfortunately focus-padding accepts non-negative values
<Cimi> so I'm not sure you could use that property
<mac_v> :(
<Cimi> maybe interior focus = FALSE
<Cimi> or 0
<mac_v> a , interior focus worked \o/
<Cimi>         GtkButton::interior-focus = 0
<Cimi>         GtkButton::focus-padding = 0
<Cimi>         GtkButton::focus-line-width = 0
<Cimi> that thing could work, not in a wonderful way, but worked
<mac_v> yeah , removing the line-width seems weird ,  need to assign the right color to make it prominent
<Cimi> try as I did
<mac_v> oh , thats better :)
<mac_v> Cimi: is there a way to use 2 engines for one widget? like , use the murrine engine for the buttons but can the button focus alone use a pixmap?
<Cimi> mmm
<Cimi> *maybe*
<Cimi> i am not sure
<mac_v> Cimi: i tried this>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/263928/
<mac_v> but everytime the second engine get selected as the engine to be used
<Cimi> I should also blog about how to change the radius in metacity's rounded corners
<Cimi> for example 2px instead 5
<mac_v> yeah , the borders end up pixelated
<Cimi> I guess no one knows it is possible :)
<mac_v> Cimi: BTW, the new murrine changes are awesome \o/ , thanks for the help  :)
<Cimi> thanks
<mac_v> 	GtkButton      ::focus-color	      = "#CED904"
<mac_v> hmmm.. thats doesnt seems to work
<Cimi> mac_v, something like that works:
<Cimi> engine "murrine" { focus_color = #CED904 }
<Cimi> (maybe inside " ")
<mac_v> oh...oh there
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<Viper550> hey
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-03
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<SnackWork> so, I've looked around a bit, but I haven't found a list of 'stuff that needs to be done' anywhere.  where should I start, if I wanna help out?
<MadsRH> SnackWork: Good question :-) I guess there really is no right place to look. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ would be a place to start.
<SnackWork> yeah, that's the main resource I'd found
<SnackWork> I'd love it if there was, say, a bunch of icons that need re-working, with a list of what's left
<SnackWork> something like that
<MadsRH> SnackWork: If you are looking for a task to work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore needs some help
<SnackWork> so people could pick one up, work on it, and submit for approval
<billybigrigger> hey all
<MadsRH> SnackWork: Gnome has something I would love to see for Ubuntu. This one: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/ArtRequests
<billybigrigger> did i miss the first drop?
<SnackWork> yeah, that's /exactly/ what I'm talking about, MadsRH
<MadsRH> SnackWork: Lot's of stuff to work on :-)
<SnackWork> I used to do that sort of thing a lot, and loved it
<SnackWork> feeling the itch again :)
<billybigrigger> is anyone here from the gnome dev team?
<billybigrigger> if not, who decided on removing SOME of the menu icons?
<MadsRH> billybigrigger: the design team (I think) - there's a bur report somewhere, perhaps a papercut?
<billybigrigger> ubuntu design or gnome design team?
<MadsRH> bur report = bugreport
<billybigrigger> can anyone else agree with me that it was a stupid decision the way "they" decided?
<billybigrigger> Apps has all icons BUT add/remove removed, Places has 1 here, 1 missing, 1 there 3 missing, and System has ALL removed
<MadsRH> billybigrigger: :-D
<billybigrigger> it looks, well....like a gong show
<billybigrigger> remove ALL icons from the root menus, and have the rest
<billybigrigger> or something clean...i dunno, i wish things like this were left up to the end user
<billybigrigger> not a design team :)
<billybigrigger> anyway...did i miss something on the first drop of artwork?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-04
<dashua> mac_v, ping
<mac_v> dashua: pong :)
<dashua> PM?
<mac_v> sure :)
<mac_v> dashua: ping ;)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> dashua: if i'm offline , i'm testing a few things in my system from Windows  , ;p
<dashua> mac_v, pong
<mac_v> dashua: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/hanso.tar
<dashua> Oh, you are the man :)
<mac_v> just a couple of *rough* ideas.
<dashua> Awesome thanks
<mac_v> will work on them over the weekend more , just have a weird webcam kernel issue i need to debug!
<dashua> Wow.  They look great.  Love the color too.
<mac_v> dashua: the labels are not correct
<dashua> Yeah, np.  I'll get them implemented for testing.
<dashua> Thx again :)
<mac_v> np :)
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.speedyshare.com/716876541.html
<dashua> Looking good mate.  Just need to work on the menu icons.
<mac_v> dashua: will test it in a bit
<dashua> Np :)
<mac_v> dashua: the menu icons , hmm.. the down arrow? doesnt that work?
<dashua> Hrm, I just saw the one.
<dashua> I'll have to add it.  I need a pressed, focused, and unfocused.
<mac_v> the lines ? i too dont think they are good...
<dashua> Yeah, I like the arrow better
<mac_v> also, i think the maximize can be the same , for both the maximized and the normal , just the box becoming reversed is better than using the arrows?
<dashua> I really like the restore effect on a maximized window
<dashua> Those two arrows inside on another
<dashua> one*
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<dashua> Did you check it out?
<dashua> Pull from trunk if you can.
<mac_v> i'm using the test you sent
<dashua> I added a place holder for the menu icons.
<dashua> Ah ok
<dashua> I pushed your icons in. They look really nice.
<dashua> Match the theme perfectly
<mac_v> :)
<dashua> Text and all :)
<mac_v> dashua: the move_over is not needed in the theme
<mac_v> since its not used
<dashua> Icon?
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> oh , you use the move_over...
<mac_v> *menu_over
<dashua> Yeah
<mac_v> then the menu is not needed
<dashua> I deleted the old ones from trunk
<mac_v> dashua: i couldnt think of any thing else for the menu other than the down arrow , if you have any ides let me know :)
<dashua> Ok cool.  I threw some dots in on trunk
<mac_v>  <dashua> I'll have to add it.  I need a pressed, focused, and unfocused. ? i didnt understand?
<mac_v> unfocussed?
<dashua> If you pull from trunk you'll see three icons for menu, menu-focused, menu-pressed, and menu-unfocused
<mac_v> hm...
<dashua> I fixed the metacity .xml now they all work correctly
<dashua> Just need better icons :)
<dashua> Maybe three shades of the icons you made.
<dashua> icon*
<mac_v> dashua: which? i'm confused
<dashua> The down menu icon arrow
<mac_v> dashua: ah , you dont like the dots?
<dashua> I don't know yet
<dashua> What do you think?
<dashua> I haven't tried the reverse carat yet.
<mac_v> dashua: the problem is , if you use the app icon the arrow makes sense... but now you have changed the icon to constant dot , which would be better
 * mac_v likes the app icons ;p
<dashua> Yeah, I think that is why I changed it back before.
<mac_v> dashua: if you dont want the app icons , the dots are definitely the way to do it
<dashua> That a big usability issue, I guess.
<dashua> I don't really look at app icons much, but that's just me.
<mac_v> no app icons , yes
<mac_v> dashua: if you dont like it , dont change :)
<dashua> Well, it's an easy fix.  I think the dots look better, so it's a toss.
<dashua> Usability vs. appearance
<dashua> Ok thx.  I'll put it out and if many dislike I will revert to app icons.  I'm not really set on anything.
<dashua> Have you heard any feedback from the Human theme in the papercutters group.
<dashua> I think that was pushed through.
<mac_v> dashua: in #ubuntu+1 , there was a lot noise , so i helped those who didnt want the icon , so i helped them revert
<dashua> Ah alright
<mac_v> dashua: Bug #405426
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 405426 in human-gtk-theme "Remove application icons from title bars" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/405426
<mac_v> dashua: see the last few comments! they even changed the title ;p
<dashua> Reading it now.
<dashua> Thx mac_v.  Bbl. :)
<mac_v> +*
<mac_v> s/+*/:)
 * SiDi hates the idea of not being able to know to which app a window belongs by looking at the easiest thing to identify : its icon !
 * mac_v agrees
<SiDi> Which is why i run one window per workspace
<SiDi> :D
 * mac_v but knows how to revert it , so \o/
<SiDi> but i perfectly understand that people want to keep an easy way to identify icons
<SiDi> even if metacity themes are often ugly with app icons :P
<mac_v> i dont think they are ugly :/
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-05
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<dashua> Good morning.
<SiDi_> heya dashua
<dashua> Hey SiDi_
<dashua> How's things?
<SiDi_> fine, you ?
<dashua> Good good.
<dashua> Had a silly idea with the gconf settings in notify-osd.
<dashua> Not even sure if it would be possible, but I don't see why not.
<dashua> Would a compiz plugin be possible?
<SiDi_> hm
<SiDi_> I dont know anything about compiz :P
<SiDi_> but surely, i think its possible
<SiDi_> all you have to do is manipulate keys, so w/e app using gconf / xfconf is compatible
<SiDi_> of course the compiz plugin wouldnt work on xubuntu :p
<dashua> Yeah, that's the problem
<SiDi_> anyway, since we dont use gconf, we'll have to have our own 'theming' utility aside from the one used for the gnome notify-osd
<dashua> There's already a positioning code for edge behaviors
<SiDi_> so that shouldnt stop you
<dashua> I'll look into it.  I'm not sure of the compiz code as it is being rewritten
<SiDi_> Actually
<SiDi_> a python app correctly written could handle both
<dashua> The configuration menu is in python.
<SiDi_> for now i think the best is to let notify-osd mature and let it land in karmic, w/out exposing the features
<SiDi_> then i'll see how i can write an app that can be put directly into the xfce settings window
<dashua> Nice
<SiDi_> that app could also be used w/ gconf, i think (since you can handle import errors very very easily in python)
<dashua> Ah
<mac_v> dashua: look at how dust does the compiz changes
<mac_v> you could just copy the file and use your own settings
<dashua> I was thinking of an actual plugin for CCSM that would be configurable.
<dashua> But that may work just to set the gconf settings if notify-osd
<mac_v> dashua: that would be too much work , compiz devs wont easily allow new plugins
<mac_v> and cmopiz is too complex , a plugin has an impact on every other component
<dashua> Yeah and I'm not familiar with the new C++ code
<mac_v> compiz*
<SiDi_> dashua: i'll probably write some notify-osd utilies at some tme
<SiDi_> i began writing an history browser in vala but i'll probably go for python
<dashua> SiDi_, Sweet.
<SiDi_> so there will be only one package for n-o and n-o-xfce :p
<mac_v> dashua: do you want any changes to the buttons? or are they fine as is?
<dashua> mac_v, I have no problems thus far.  Waiting for input from other users, but nothing yet.
<dashua> They look very good to me.
<mac_v>  :)
<dashua> Have you tested it out?
<mac_v> dashua: other users? as in SiDi_ ;p
<dashua> Hehe
<SiDi_> metacity ?
<SiDi_> i asks screenshots :)
<SiDi_> let me know when you wanna release btw dashua so i'll do the xfwm the day before :p
<SiDi_> (i know ive been lagging out the last few months, but well :P)
<dashua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Hanso?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=terminal_metacity.png
<dashua> Ok cool
<dashua> I have 0.3.1 for coming soon
<mac_v> i'v used it and my obseravtions are almost the same since yesterday ;)
<SiDi_> the menu button is definately sexy :)
<SiDi_> dashua: do you have a screenshot of an app with a statusbar in the bottom ?
<dashua> Not on the Wiki yet
<dashua> You want a shot of Nautilus?
<SiDi_> i saw one on the wiki
<SiDi_> you didnt change the bottom of metacity till then, right ,
<SiDi_> ?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23835/screenshot_014_964Kna.png
<mac_v> dashua: 1: light shade for the metacity bottom , 2: use same maximize animation for both normal and maximized windows , 3: i prefer app icons ;p
<dashua> No, that is still the same
<dashua> mac_v, Get rid of the square you think?
<mac_v> dashua: i would think the square is better for both , just use it reversed for the maximized windows
<mac_v> or what you could do is
<dashua> Ok, get rid of the arrows pointing inward and out then?
<mac_v> dashua: use the square for normal and the prelight as the arrows
<mac_v> if you want it that way^ , i have an idea of an icon for that
<dashua> Ok, I'll try some variations
<SiDi_> you should do something for the shadow of the forward label dashua :)
<mac_v> dashua: if you are using the square , we can use the arrows on the sides of the square , similar to the fullscreen icons
<mac_v> but without the square
<dashua> SiDi_, The shadow I would like to change, but not sure how =/
<mac_v> SiDi_: you cant...
<dashua> mac_v, Cool, I will try these different variations
<mac_v> dashua: let me know if you can :)
<dashua> mac_v, I don't know of any way
<SiDi_> mac_v: im sure you can ! :P
<SiDi_> you can has cheezburger
<dashua> Haha
<mac_v> ;p
<SiDi_> its the shadow of deactivated text in toolbars
<SiDi_> that should be reachable :P
<mac_v> dashua: where is the shadow variable set?
<dashua> Insensitive text maybe?
<mac_v> there *must* be something for that
<mac_v> Cimi: hi... any ideas, where how shadows for the inactive text are set?
<mac_v> *where/how
<mac_v> dashua: insenstive text? i didnt understand?
<SiDi_> dashua: i think its insensitive yes
<dashua> Yeah, that changes the text, but not the shadow of the icons
<mac_v> dashua: GtkStatusbar     ::shadow-type       	= GTK_SHADOW_NONE
<SiDi_> yay
<mac_v> dashua: GtkToolbar     	::shadow-type       = GTK_SHADOW_NONE
<dashua> mac_v, w00t
<dashua> Nice
<mac_v> \o/
<dashua> I already have those set though
<Cimi> mac_v, in the engine, in the code
<mac_v> thanks
<mac_v> dashua: try shadow		= OUT   or shadow		= IN
<dashua> Ok
<mac_v> works for pixmaps , not sure how it works for the rest
<mac_v> ah doesnt work :/
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23844/screenshot_015_yo039j.png
<dashua> Better?
<SiDi_> YES :]
<SiDi_> what does it give if you unsaturate the insensitive text ?
<mac_v> dashua: \o/ how did you do that ?
<Cimi> mac_v, fg[INSENSITIVE]
<mac_v> Cimi: oh... thats what that is , hehe
<SiDi_> dashua: could you please send me those desaturated status icons you use, with their sources if possible ?
<mac_v> --
<mac_v> Steve Dodier
<mac_v> OpenPGP : 1B6B1670
<mac_v> IRC : SiDi on irc.freenode.net
<mac_v> Jabber : sidi@im.apinc.org
<mac_v> steve.dodier@gmail.com
<mac_v> https://launchpad.net/~sidi
<mac_v> lol! ;p
<dashua> mac_v, I didn't change the icons, just the config
<dashua> Just pushed them to trunk, now to the metacity
 * mac_v checking
<SiDi_> mac_v: whats wrong with my signature ? :P
<SiDi> Damn ISP
<SiDi> dashua: i dont know if you got my message :P
<dashua> Which one?
<mac_v> lol
<SiDi> When i asked you if you could send me the panel status icons you use in your screenshot
<SiDi> the grayish ones
<SiDi>  w/ the sources if possible :p
 * mac_v knows which ... hehe.... <evil grin>
<dashua> Oh shit, thought that was mac_v
<dashua> Too many names in here
<SiDi> only mac_v you, SiDi_ and me
<dashua> I have no sources it just does it in the theme
<dashua> 50/50 shot andd I guess wrong =/
<SiDi> send me the theme then please :P
<dashua> Ok
<mac_v> dashua: he's talking about humanity
<mac_v> panel icons ;)
<SiDi> mac_v: i dont think it was humanity x_x
<SiDi> but yeah i speak about the panel iconz
<dashua> I am confused now.  SiDi what theme are you asking for?
<mac_v> dashua: he *is* talking about humanity and doesnt know it ;p
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Hanso?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=desktop_full.png
<SiDi> the one with the grey volume icon in this screenshot
<SiDi> mac_v: i use humanity and never saw these icons :P
<dashua> Oh yeah
<dashua> They are mac_v's creations
<SiDi> why is mac_v keeping secret icons out of my reach ? :P
<mac_v> SiDi: they are in the humanity theme , latest revs
<dashua> bzr branch lp:humanity
<SiDi> i see
<SiDi> i use the PPA
<SiDi> got xcf/svg sources ? :P
<dashua> No they are rendered in trunk
<mac_v> SiDi: all the humanity icons are svg , just pull them from bzr
<SiDi> okey
<dashua> mac_v, The bars are back for nm-applet :)
<dashua> No more circles, eh?
<mac_v> dashua: the nm icons were not Dan's idea
<mac_v> he didnt like them
<mac_v> dashua: as i said earlier ,they dont match the rest of the icons which are crisp , Dan felt the same too , before i could even mention it he had them changed ;)
<mac_v> already
<dashua> Yeah, after you mentioned that I noticed it.
<mac_v> dashua: the funny thing is , i had done a very similar icons as those but did not show Dan , because they didnt match the theme
<dashua> I need to talk to Cory about getting those into Breathe, so much nicer
<dashua> Or something similar
<SiDi> mac_v: shouldnt audio-volume-muted show a little 'muted' cross ?
<mac_v> yeah my thoughts exactly,
<mac_v> SiDi: have to discuss it first
<mac_v> thanks for reminding, i had been meaning to change that for 2 days :)
<mac_v> SiDi: ^
<SiDi> discuss it with kwwii ? :P
 * mac_v wonders why SiDi thinks kwwii is the author
<SiDi> kwwii is the main author of Humanity, right ?
<SiDi> but i understood you're the author of these sexy icons, mac_v :P
<mac_v> wrong
<SiDi> oh ?
<SiDi> why is it in his PPA then ? :/
<mac_v> SiDi: for testing ,
<mac_v> SiDi: Daniel Fore , you could have just checked the lp
<SiDi> okey
<SiDi> sorry for that confusion :P
<mac_v> SiDi: we have been discussing this right under you nose in ayatana and you never knew it ,   it was so funny the other day when you kept asking kwwii
<SiDi> mac_v: you're evil :D
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> dashua:	GtkButton      ::focus-line-width  = 0
<mac_v> try adding that and check out how it looks^
<SiDi> mac_v: oh you icon expert
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=notify-osd-default-icon-set.png
<SiDi> where are these wireless icons from ?
<mac_v> SiDi: thats kwwii/mat_t
<mac_v> SiDi: why the doubt?
<SiDi> What do you mean by doubt  ?/P
<wers> !theming
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about theming
<wers> !gtk
<ubottu> GTK is the !GIMP toolkit, which forms the base of !GNOME and is used by many applications to provide a !GUI
<mac_v> SiDi: wondered why you asked about the notify-osd icons...?
<SiDi> mac_v: i just didnt manage to find these in any theme
<SiDi> i know usually the design document is modified by mat
<SiDi> but i was wondering if you'd know which version of which theme these icons are in
<mac_v> SiDi: it is in Human
<SiDi> in karmic ? :p
<mac_v> SiDi: oh those...! those were the initial designs... i think macSlow will has them
<wers> If you like the humanity icon theme, i recommend checking out Erectus. Very complete, human-ish, and tango-compliant http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Erectus?content=100254
<mac_v> SiDi: *i think macslow has them
<mac_v> he uses them in his screencasts
<mrdoob> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1257165&page=2
<mrdoob> thoughts anyone?
<mac_v> mrdoob: is that your handy work? looking good :)
<mrdoob> handy work?
<mrdoob> I was trying to make it more simple :)
<mrdoob> less borders
<mrdoob> you know
<mac_v> how was it previous;y , i remember it without the explanations , is that alpha 5?
<mrdoob> top of the page = old
<mrdoob> bottom of the page = new
<mrdoob> I mean..
<mrdoob> top of the page = current
<mac_v> hehe , gotcha
<mrdoob> bottom of the page = my suggestion
<mac_v> mrdoob: have you tried to contact the guys?
<mrdoob> which guys?
<mac_v> who are doing the slideshow
<mrdoob> no idea who it is doing it :)
<mrdoob> that's the main problem I'm finding while trying to contribute
<mac_v> ;)
<mac_v> mrdoob: wait let me get you the link
<mrdoob> did MadsRH did that one?
<SiDi> MadsRH did the look of the current slideshow
<SiDi> i remember helping him with css
<SiDi> i think there is a ubuntu-slideshow lp project
<mrdoob> ok, I'll ping him then
<mrdoob> thanks SiDi
<dashua> mac_v, Ok, I had it, then reverted
<dashua> wers, Erectus is ok, Breathe combined with Humanity still makes the best set IMHO
<wers> dashua, breath looks good but I still prefer Erectus because it fits the rest of the desktop. i know that trying to get the oxygen look is great but it will take a while before it oxygen-ize the whole desktop
<wers> it will always lack visual consistency because apps will always follow tango guidelines
<wers> as for Humanity, it's not really tango as well. i guess, it fits the preference of many users because of its modern look but for a larger audience (official themes for release), i prefer tango compliant ones
<dashua> True, there are some inconsistencies but still is or was in  active development
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23853/screenshot_016_zcoidW.png
<wers> yep. it's in very active development. it's nice to see where it is heading but before it completely changes every tango icon on the gnome desktop, they're not really for production imho
<dashua> I don't like this focus and was a serious area of contention for the Human theme in Jaunty
<mac_v> dashua: hmmm.. i didnt understand?
<wers> dashua, which focus? the one on check buttons?
<mac_v> dashua: i *hated* the lines around them , that was one of the reasons i was hunting for the focus
<dashua> mac_v, I like the effect it has on the button itself but it does some ugly things elsewhere
<dashua> I just remember it being a big issue in Human with the murrine engine
<mac_v> hehe i thought it was better ;p
<dashua> Cimi, fixed it right before release
<mac_v> dashua: or try this> GtkButton      ::interior-focus	      = 0
<mac_v> remove the previous line and try this one^
<wers> i think, it would help if the focus is more pronounced. the solution could be keeping the lines or darkening the highlight
<dashua> mac_v, I messed with all of the options and could not come to a reasonable compromise
<mac_v> hehe ;p
<dashua> mac_v, SiDi_, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23855/screenshot_017_nn1xHq.png
<dashua> Look better than the previous insensitive?
<mac_v> looks better , :)
<mac_v> dashua: which are the lines you adjusted?
<dashua> The fg[INSENSITIVE]  for dark
<mac_v> mrdoob: you need to get in touch with the ubiquity-slideshow mailing list...
<SiDi_> yes dashua
<SiDi_> much easier to read
<dashua> It matches more along with the metacity
<dashua> Ok cool, I thought so too :)
<SiDi_> but i think you should try to make the saturation identical to the one of the icons dashua
<SiDi_> ie. more grey
<mac_v> eeek!
<mac_v> no , its nice now :)
<dashua> SiDi_, icons should be the same as before
<dashua> Grey or brown, whatcha think?
<mac_v> for which?
<dashua> fg[INSENSITIVE] for dark
<mac_v> dashua: give the current full value you are using  , let me test it out
<dashua> fg[INSENSITIVE]   = "#664E30"
<dashua> This is against the brown pixmap toolbar as well
<mac_v> dashua: hmm... i think you have adjusted something else as well , its not the same for me as the screenshot
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23856/screenshot_018_fI3nfw.png
<mac_v> dashua: could you push to branch
<dashua> There is SiDi_'s recommendation
<dashua> Sure, grey or brown?
<dashua> Consensus?
<dashua> Out of the two last screenies
<mac_v> hehe , i must say SiDi_ is always right
<dashua> :P
<mac_v> greay
<mac_v> grey
<dashua> Yeah, he is =/
<dashua> Ok one sec
<SiDi_> mac_v: dashua <3
<mac_v> i imagined grey= lightgrey!
<dashua> Pushed
<SiDi_> with grey it is as easy to read but brings less the attention, making it more clear that its insensitive ;p
<dashua> Thanks for the input
<SiDi_> you're welcome
<mac_v> dashua: what else is easier than input ;p
<mac_v> ;)
<dashua> You think that would look good on the unfocused metacity?
<dashua> Brown now
<mac_v> let me check
<dashua> Let me test
<mac_v> dashua: the humanity battery icons are fixed \o/
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23857/screenshot_019_zNBkMq.png
<dashua> Wow
<dashua> That does look nice
<dashua> mac_v, Sweet
<dashua> I uninstalled g-p-m
<dashua> Monitor would not sleep with it installed
<mac_v> hmm... you can use $xset s 300
<mac_v> that will solve it or
<dashua> Yeah, I never had to that before
<dashua> Something has changed
<mac_v> dashua: that is not a gpm problem ,it is actually xorg problem
<mac_v> the two just keep getting confused :/
<mac_v> each thinks the other is working!
<dashua> Yeah, but the patches were sent upstream for the xorg-xserver and they still do not work
<dashua> I thought they were pushed to Karmic
<mac_v> no they havent fixed xorg yet
<mac_v> dashua: only gpm is fixed and the screensaver works fine now , no problems there
<dashua> Hrm
<dashua> I just get a black blank screen that is not asleep
<mac_v> now the screen does go to sleep also.
<dashua> Hrm ok, I don't really need g-p-m or haven't missed it thus far
<mac_v> have you tried locking the screen?
<dashua> I wish it would work though
<mac_v> ;)
<dashua> No, I didn't try that
<dashua> Works fine on my netbook where I do need it to work
<dashua> mac_v, Alright, lots of nice enhancements pushed to trunk
<dashua> Now, I will mess the button icons
<dashua> You guys are making this a killer theme :)
 * dashua --> Lunch
<dashua> Feel like MacSlow now ;)
<SiDi_> dashua: /away /back
<SiDi_> thanks :P
<mac_v> phew... i feel much better after fixing the gpm icon problem! \o/ that drove me crazy
<SiDi_> you ARE crazy
<mrdoob> Another version...
<mrdoob> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1257165&page=3
<mac_v> mrdoob: the forums is not a good place for the mockups :( , it wont reach the devs
<mrdoob> Yeah I can imagine, but I find the mailing lists tedious :(
<mrdoob> maybe with a bit of luck
<mrdoob> someone will repost on their list
<mac_v> if you are willing to contact the ML , alone any time spent is useful , else its just for your timepass
<mrdoob> :)
<mrdoob> I pinged MadsRH, he'll consider it if he likes it
<mrdoob> better than subscribing to a ML, posting and unsubscribing
<mac_v> mrdoob: did madsRh do the first one?
<mrdoob> as far as I know, yes
<mrdoob> http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/08/ubiquity-slideshow-for-ubuntu.html
<mac_v> mrdoob: man , you are lazier than me ;p
<mrdoob> yeah
<mrdoob> doing the bootscreen
<mrdoob> I was told I should contact macslow
<mrdoob> so he could let me know about the limitations
<mrdoob> he never replied
<mrdoob> the whole workflow is random
<mac_v> mrdoob: i told you!
<mrdoob> you told me he'll never reply?
<mrdoob> or to contact him?
<mac_v> mrdoob: people dont reply to mails unless they know who you are
<mrdoob> haha
<mrdoob> right
<mrdoob> I do :P
<mrdoob> oh well
<mrdoob> bad luck
<mac_v> u need to understand though you mean well , there are several who just spam!
<knome> good evening
<mac_v> since the email id in on the lp page
<mac_v> knome: hola  ;)
<knome> hello mac_v
<mrdoob> yeah I understand that
<mrdoob> but you know, I was linking to my work
<knome> mac_v, is your nick pronounced like mac(gy)v(er)
<mac_v> knome: hows the wallpaper coming?
<mrdoob> I was kind of saying who I was, but well
<knome> still http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/Mockups/06-hires.png
<mrdoob> It'll last whatever it'll last
<mac_v> knome: nope , it was an old one , it was supposed to mean mach 5
<knome> a-ha!
<knome> but should the v be a capital V in that case? :)
<knome> *shouldn't
<mac_V> better? ;)
<knome> hehe yup ;)
<knome> the romans had no "U" because it would have been too hard to write on a stone so it became just "V"
<mac_V> interesting ... hm..
<mac_V> yeah... thinking about it.... all the roman numerals are just scratches
<knome> yup
<mac_V> knome: hehe finally i ended making wireless icons for humanity ;p
<knome> it's really intelligent otherwise as well as it uses minimum possible characters :P
<knome> \o/
<knome> i still haven't looked at humanity properly
<knome> i should
<mac_V> bzr branch lp:humanity
<knome> i know
<knome> i am not home right now
<mac_V> oh
<mac_V> the icon set is awesome , but i'v only done the panel icons
<knome> yeah, SiDi is talking about it all the time
<knome> ;)
<mac_V> the funny thing was until today he didnt know who made them
<knome> haha
<mac_V> he kept constantly asking kwwii "you are the author of humanity, right?"
<knome> he definitely is a funny guy
<mac_V> kwwii never replied
<mac_V> even worse was i was discussing the icons constantly in #ayatana with Daniel and SiDi_ was ther so many times
<mac_V> he just never realized it ;p
<knome> hehe
<knome> SiDi, you are dumb!
<knome> :P
<mrdoob> bye people
<mac_V> mrdoob: bye
<mac_V> mrdoob: contact madsRH
<mac_V> damn it SiDi missed all the trash we talked about him!
<mac_V> his stupid connection!
<knome> :D
<knome> yup
<knome> i can repeat it to him tonight
<SiDi> OKEY
<mac_V> lullaby ? ;p
<knome> sure
<knome> :P
 * SiDi goes get angry kitten launcher
<mac_V> where is kwwii ?
<knome> SiDi, my mother now has a cat here
<mac_V> missing his bot
<knome> SiDi, let me remind you, the cat is totally scared of me *buahaha*
<mac_V> lol
 * SiDi goes get his angry t-rex launcher
<knome> haha
 * SiDi pms cody-somerville to ask him to upload a BROWN theme for Xubuntu !
<knome> i've never heard of an alive t-rex :P
<SiDi> you can be angry AND dead
<knome> SiDi, hah, cody wouldn't do that ;)
<knome> SiDi, on the other hand, if he did, he'd know i'd bug him EVERY day about BZR and stuff ;)
<knome> and he's scared of *that*
<SiDi> you'd have an heart attack
<SiDi> in green + fuschia
<SiDi> that'd kill you
<knome> no, i'd just change my distro
<knome> o.o
<knome> and the all lot of you would cry :P
<knome> especially you;)
<knome> (i wouldn't be telling you about new bands anymore :P)
<SiDi> OKEY
<SiDi> i'll paint your house in PINKthen
<SiDi> ha !
<SiDi> and i'll broadcast some R&B music in your living room !
<knome> YAY
<knome> r&b is not bad
<knome> and our white walls acutally need some color
<knome> ;)
<knome> you see, there's no way to hurt me ;)
<SiDi> haha
<knome> i'm so open to new things
<SiDi> mac_v: Celeste has actually not commented the feature itself :P
<mac_v> SiDi: i have recieved personal mail from her!
<SiDi> aw ! :P
<mac_v> SiDi: the mailman is slow , so you might not have recieved it
<mac_v> SiDi: the volume mute has been edited
<SiDi> mac_v: it lacks a cross :d
<mac_v> yup , no cross ;p
<mac_v> *every* theme does that!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-06
<mac_v>  \o/ kwwii's bot is back
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> MadsRH: hi... are you involved in the ubiquity slideshow work?
<mac_v> MadsRH:  <mrdoob> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1257165&page=2 <mrdoob> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1257165&page=3
<mac_v> i keep telling him to contact the mailing list he for some reason doesnt want to post in ML! so i'v told him to at minimum contact you , else it not reach the right place...
<mac_v> it would not*
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<SiDi> Hey people
<SiDi> can anyone run a little script for me please ?
<SiDi> Esp. people who don't use xfwm4
<SiDi> http://pastebin.com/m204ff979
<SiDi> Please let me know what is displayed when you launch this with python and : 1)minimize the window | 2) switch workspace
<MDC1> python sidi.py
<MDC1> MINIMIZING...
<MDC1> Window state: ['_NET_WM_STATE_HIDDEN']
<MDC1> Window state: []
<MDC1> SWITCH
<MDC1> Window state: []
<MDC1> Window state: []
<MDC1> SiDi, that was gnome/metacity on karmic
<SiDi> MDC1: thanks :D
<MDC1> np
<mac_v> dashua: bzr branch lp:humanity-unr
<mac_v> it has the new animation for nm-connecting
<dashua> mac_v, Nice
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<dashua> I've been using it on my netbook, looks sweet
<dashua> Just the regular Humanity
<dashua> Didn't know about the UNR version
<mac_v> just spawned yesterday ;p
<dashua> DBO's new window picker applet is nice too.
<dashua> Sort of like Docky
<mac_v> i think me might just use it as a testing ground
<mac_v> since the UNR version works fine with dust too
<mac_v> it was initially started due to concerns that the icons might not work well with dust
<mac_v> dashua: the animation is a bit cheesy ;p but just wanted to try something new
<dashua> Uh oh, just lost nm-applet =/
<dashua> The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources.  It cannot continue.
<mac_v> hehe... thats not my fault ;p
<mac_v> dashua: has the system been upgraded? there were problems similar to what you mention with nm , now it has been corrected
<mac_v> updated*
<dashua> mac_v, Not working here mate.
<dashua> Ok
<mac_v> dashua: the icons or the applet ?
<dashua> Both nm-applet just crashes
<dashua> The nm-applet appears then crashes nm-applet
<dashua> icon*
<mac_v> hmm... that cant be the fault of the icons
<dashua> One I revert back to Humanity, it's fine
<dashua> Once*
<dashua> Try it with Hanso
<dashua> Maybe it's the theme
<mac_v> weird , i'v been testing it several times with my theme
<mac_v> let me check
<dashua> gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24:gtk-button=16,16"
<dashua> Maybe that
<mac_v> testing
<mac_v> dashua: am i connected?
<dashua> Hrm
<mac_v> hehe
<dashua> Not sure
<dashua> Hehe
<mac_v> works fine for me with hanso
<mac_v> dashua: is the icon set in ~/.icons or in /usr/share/icons
<dashua> Getting missing resources
<dashua> /usr/share/icons
<mac_v> hrm... weird , i'm having no problems with hanso too , have you changed anything recently? after yesterday?
<mac_v> i have yesterday's hanso rev
<dashua> No, nothing at all
<dashua> Just Totem
<dashua> But that would not effect this
<mac_v> you are now on netbook or PC?
<dashua> PC laptop
<mac_v> i tested this on my laptop , i dont see any problems :/
<dashua> Does the same on other theme too
<dashua> I get a black spinner animation in Humanity
<mac_v> which other theme? icon or gtk?
<dashua> But I can't really see it
<dashua> GTK
<mac_v> wait let me change panel
<dashua> Let me test it on my netbook
<mac_v> dashua: i tired every permutation , i dont get any probs :/
<dashua> Same on my netbook
<mac_v> err..!
<dashua> Doesn't work on my netbook either
<dashua> Removed them from /usr/share/icons and put them ~/.icons
<dashua> Still crashes
<mac_v> dashua: however much i try i dont get any problems  :(    , i dont know what to say :(
<dashua> Me neither
<dashua> I'll mess around with it
<mac_v> damn it.... why dont i get this problem !
<mac_v> hehe ;p
<dashua> I wonder if it's just me =/
<dashua> Anyone else available to test?
<SiDi> hm
<SiDi> whats the bug ?
<mac_v> SiDi: test  bzr branch lp:humanity-unr
<mac_v> are you using wireless connection ?
<mac_v> SiDi: try the reconnection animation
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> i dont have network manager :P
<mac_v> ;p
<Cimi_> mac_v, which issue? here crashes
<mac_v> Cimi: the reconnection animation crashes?
<mac_v> Cimi_: ^
<mac_v>  bzr branch lp:humanity-unr
<mac_v> for these icons?
<Cimi_> y
<mac_v> hrm weird :(
<mac_v> back!
<mac_v> aah! , i dont notice any problems , why is that?
<mac_v> Cimi_: could you check the symlinks , maybe its a problem with that?
<mac_v> dashua: Cimi_ could you guys first view the files in EOG and then try it again?
<Cimi_> nm-stage02-connecting01 missing
<mac_v> oops !
<mac_v> Cimi_: thats weird ! i have it in the branch!
<mac_v> let me check LP
<Cimi_> mac_v, bzr add ?
<mac_v> i did that together with all the icons , i'm not sure how this one missed
<mac_v> Cimi_: do a pull again , i can see them in LP too > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementaryicons/humanity-unr/humanity-unr/revision/192
<mac_v> could you do *
<Cimi_> nothing
<mac_v> SiDi: dashua: is it same for you? you gus also dont have the  nm-stage02-connecting01
<mac_v> guys*
<mac_v> Cimi_: thats weird :/ could add the symlink and check if it works now?
<Cimi_> no I'm quite busy... anyway I'm not using humanity
<mac_v> ok no probs
<Cimi_> I've just did a test for you
<mac_v> Cimi_: thanks :)
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23907/screenshot_ClPlN9.png
<mac_v> dashua: is it working for you now?
<dashua> No
<dashua> Did you update?
<dashua> Permisson or symlinks are bad
<mac_v> dashua: no , could you check if the  nm-stage02-connecting01 is missing?
<Cimi_> quite ugly the mix between colored and monochrome icons
<mac_v> dashua: remove bluetooth and the disk utility icons
<mac_v> temporarily while taking screenshots :)
<Cimi_> also small icons seems to be blurred
<Cimi_> take a look at the nautilus sidebar
<Cimi_> the disks
<mac_v> Cimi_: for humanity?
<Cimi_> y
<Cimi_> you should move to the one canvas overflow like gnome's next g-i-t
<mac_v> hrm.. i'll tell dan about it
<Cimi_> I guess we will have 256x256 px icons for 2.30
<mac_v> Cimi_: I'm just doing some work for the panel icons , i'm not the one who started it :)
<mac_v> just a small piece of the puzzle ;p
<Cimi_> like those
<Cimi_> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=git3 http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<mac_v> yeah , have seen them , jimmac makes good icons
<Cimi_> and he is color blind :)
<mac_v> Cimi_: what ?
<mac_v> o.0
<Cimi_> mac_v, he is color blind
<Cimi_> but he reaches this quality
<mac_v> seriously ? , then how does he select the colors
<Cimi_> also lapo calamandrei is color blind
<Cimi_> he told me he grab them from the palette
<mac_v> o.0
<Cimi_> he sees the sun green :D
<mac_v> yeah the color blind get the greens and reds mostly mixed up
<mac_v> hehe... amazing how they gets the icons right though
<Cimi_> yeah
<Cimi_> wallpapers too!
<mac_v> i'm gonna poke kwwii's eyes too ;p
<mac_v> not that he doesnt make good icons already , but to make better icons
<mac_v> dashua: pls do fresh download again :) , dont pull , the error seems fixed now
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<Cimi_> mac_v, bzr merge doesn't work
<mac_v> Cimi_: i tired downloading the files again , now i see all the symlinks... it might have been a temporary hickup in the server or something... could you pls download again and test it when you have time :)
<mac_v> dont pull the revs wont be different
<Cimi_> cimi@gemini:~/.icons$ ls humanity-unr/status/22/nm-
<Cimi_> nm-adhoc.svg            nm-device-wireless.svg  nm-signal-00.svg        nm-signal-100.svg       nm-signal-50.svg
<Cimi_> nm-device-wired.svg     nm-no-connection.svg    nm-signal-0.svg         nm-signal-25.svg        nm-signal-75.svg
<Cimi_> mmm
<mac_v> hmm.. oh those wait!
<mac_v> now i
<mac_v> i'm confused  :(
<dashua> mac_v, Ok
<dashua> Just got home from running
<dashua> Damn
<dashua> g-p-m still not working even with the lock
<mac_v> :)
 * dashua uninstalls again
<mac_v> gpm is really a big mess  , there are several complains about it :/
<mac_v> Karmic UNR has an awesome menu
<SiDi> sudo aptitude install xfce4-power-manager
<SiDi> We need testers ! :D
<dashua> Uh oh
<dashua> Same =/
<dashua> ~./icons is purged too
<dashua> mac_v, humanity-unr no go here
<dashua> I removed branch and branched again
<dashua> Same error
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23911/screenshot_020_Uok1Fc.png
<dashua> This link cannot be used, because its target "/home/vishnoo/Documents/themes/BZR_LP/humanity-unr/apps/24/nm-stage01-connecting05.svg" doesn't exist
<dashua> Maybe need to be re-rendered with update symlinks?
<dashua> SiDi, I'm about to switch over
<dashua> GNOME should be much more stable at this point in release
<dashua> Stable version is coming soon
<dashua> I just can't do without Compiz
<SiDi> Hehe
<SiDi> install compiz in Xfce then ;)
 * mac_v thinks SiDi is worse that crack pushers ;p lol
<dashua> mac_v, Are you vishnoo?
<SiDi> dashua: compiz runs fine in Xubuntu
<dashua> SiDi, Really?
<SiDi> you just need to use compiz-core and simple-ccsm rather than compiz and ccsm
<dashua> How about event sounds?
<mac_v> dashua: could you pls check the apps/22 and apps/24 ?
<SiDi> and of course it uses compiz or emerald for window decorations, not xfwm
<dashua> Does Xubuntu have them yet?
<SiDi> dashua: dont know, the only sound allowed on my PC is my music
<mac_v> if there are 33 icons yup
<SiDi> yes, its in the repositories
<mac_v> dashua: ah crap symlinks... wait i'll load the files themselves!
<SiDi> http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/xubuntu-compiz-pretty-pretty-xubuntu/ that outdated blog post explains it all
<SiDi> just use simple-ccsm instead of the normal ccsm
<dashua> If I do switch, all traces of blue will be eradicated.
<mac_v> dashua: how are symlinks created for bzr ?
<mac_v> in bzr*
<dashua> Not sure, Cory or rugby had a script in Breathe that did the symlinks
<mac_v> i totally messed up the symlinks i guess!
<dashua> That's the only issue it seems
<mac_v> dashua: just a min, Dan is fixing it \o/
<dashua> mac_v, Ok
<mac_v> dashua: i ended up making hardlinks! , instead of symlinks!
<mac_v> thats why it is messed up :(
<dashua> No worries, it can be fixed.  That's why it didn't crash on your end
<mac_v>  yeah,
<dashua> Stage 1 icons look sexxy from what I can see
<mac_v> dashua:  hehe... i blame it all on Cory ;p
<dashua> Ha
<mac_v> he never told me to do symlinks so i never did them
<dashua> I think he rendered the source and then created the symlinks
<dashua> That script is no longer in Breathe
<dashua> It used to be
<mac_v> dashua: should work now :) , pls test it
<mac_v> Cimi: ^
<mac_v> dashua:  there is also another spinner in Humanity , we are testing 2 versions ;)
<dashua> mac_v, Very nice :)
<dashua> Working good
<mac_v> thanks :)
<mac_v> ... hehe Dan did another version too , so we are now testing both ;p
<dashua> For darker panels?
<mac_v> dashua: na... , just a different version of the spinner :)
<Cimi> humanity icons are blurred here with small dimensions
<Cimi> for example panel 24pc
<Cimi> *px
<Cimi> or small icons on the toolbar
<mac_v> Cimi: could you file a bug? on lp , with a screenshot?
<mac_v> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23911/screenshot_020_Uok1Fc.png
<Cimi> no I'm busy... and I don't contribute for things which I don't use (or will be complicated to follow the bugreport)
<mac_v> that is how it is displayed for me too... so i'm not sure how its causing a problem
<mac_v> oops wrong link!
<mac_v> > http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23907/screenshot_ClPlN9.png
<mac_v> thats dashua's screenshot ^
<Cimi> I'm on jaunty
<mac_v> http://imagebin.ca/view/qpQwWE1g.html
<mac_v> there are problems with the panel when the icons are used from ~/.icons folder
<rsc___> what scripts are you folks using?
<rsc___> errr, what themes?
<rsc___>  :)
<rsc___> in those screenshots.
<mac_v> humanity
<rsc___> GTK theme i mean?
<rsc___> or is humanity a gtk theme?
<mac_v> rsc___: thats dashua's Hanso
<rsc___> ahh.
<mac_v> Cimi: but that is a panel bug , to prevent it the icons need to be in the /usr/share/icon folder
<rsc___> just reminded me of a certain theme i started heh :)
<mac_v> something stupid with the panel
<Cimi> ok
<mac_v> rsc___: dont we all start one ;p
<rsc___> perhaps so
<mac_v> hehe , i'v been wanting to finish a theme i started for more than 3 months !
<mac_v> and by all from what i hear about Karmic +1 the themes will probably drastically need a make over o.0
<SiDi> mac_v: http://imagebin.ca/img/MfexieRW.png :D
<SiDi> i stole your iconz !
<mac_v> SiDi: that looks nice :)
<SiDi> it took me 2 days x_x
<SiDi> as soon as i change panel size / theme, its not sharp anymore :P
<SiDi> mac_v: that white blur on the g-p-m icons...
<SiDi> put the panel's size at 50px
<SiDi> and enjoy :P
<mac_v> SiDi: screenshot?
<mac_v> but using a 22px icon for 50 px ;p
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/img/ZylrFuAX.png
<mac_v> SiDi: what the hell! ..... why did you tell me to change the px ? it blew up my system!
<SiDi> lol ?
<mac_v> i dont know it seriously started to mess up my install! had to restart 3 times... everything in the system went beserk!
<SiDi> lol
<mac_v> SiDi: had to reset the gconf and the .gnome2
<SiDi> http://www.xubuntu.com/get
<mac_v> SiDi: you god damn crack pusher
<SiDi> because you changed your panel's size ? :/
<mac_v> yeah , i tried 50px twice or thrice and everything went crazy!
 * mac_v takes note never to listen to SiDi 's craziness!
<SiDi> mac_v: sudo rm -rf /*
 * mac_v tries to jedi kick SiDi
 * MDC1 tries SiDi optimizing code...
 * SiDi optimizes his brain's code
<SiDi> 2+2 = 100
<MDC1> mine says 2+2 = NULL
<SiDi> 2+4 = 110
<MDC1> :-)
<mac_v> hehe , MDC1 try it, every almost every app crashed
<mac_v> had 20 apport reports!
<MDC1> after rm / -rf?
<mac_v> no SiDi 's stupid idea ;p
<MDC1> i've been away and haven't read up.. :-)
<mac_v> MDC1: SiDi had an idea to use 50px panel ;p
<SiDi> mac_v: you know what it means ?
<MDC1> should the apps crash because of that?
<SiDi> it means the apps and DE you use manage to CRASH when they gotta grab an icon from a theme
<MDC1> talking about panels..
<mac_v> i tired it twice or thrice and all hell broke loose! every time i clicked an app in the panel it would crash!
<SiDi> that really sucks a lot
<SiDi> i suggest you to use XFCE instead !
<MDC1> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471660
<ubottu> Gnome bug 471660 in general "Use GtkScale to set the size of the panel" [Normal,New]
<MDC1> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=142588
 * MDC1 goes try setting panel to 50px+
<mac_v> even if i selected /home from the panel it crashed nautilus!
<MDC1> hmm.. i'm still here
 * SiDi thinks buttons without icons suck
<MDC1> haha.. tried it in a vm :)
<MDC1> but it didn't crash.. ?
<MDC1> did i do something wrong+
<MDC1> ?
<mac_v> yeah
<MDC1> heeh
<mac_v> you tried it in VM ;p
<MDC1> :-)
<MDC1> just to be safe from scary thing like rm -rf /
<MDC1> what did you think of the GtkScale instead of spinner?
<mac_v> one day i'm gonna get ssh to SiDi's system and do  # rm -rf /*
<mac_v> <evil grin>
<MDC1> i'm off to bed, it's already too late... see ya tomorrow
<SiDi_> mac_v: good luck for that
<SiDi_> if you wanna use my panel icons lp:~sidi/+junk/panel-icons
<SiDi_> be warned their size is chosen depending on my panel's size for my personal use :P
<SiDi_> Oh, and the icons' shape is stolen on Human / Humanity ! :D
<rsc___> whatever happened to the breathe iconset?
<rsc___> how does the community like it?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-06
<vish> troy_s: hey , havent touched blender yet.. :(  but when i tried your .blend files , they seemed empty , need to check on them again.. :)
<vish> i*
 * darkmatter still has to finish setting up gimp(ed), blended, and sloshscaped 
<darkmatter> vish: appmenus are almost useable now! *rubs hands eagerly in anticipation*
<vish> meh!  i rarely use the menu ;p
<darkmatter> vish: I actually hate menus, but 20ish+ extra pixels is a good thing :P
<darkmatter> none of my designs have menus *shrug*
<vish> darkmatter: well , you can just remove the menu and /not/ have the top panel  .. and you'd get another 20px ;p
<darkmatter> ;P
<darkmatter> oooo... my fonts look good in blender :O
<vish> gah!  stop it!  now, i need to make time for blender!
<vish> ;)
<darkmatter> vish: still gotta customize the theme and layout. but nommy! http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2718/screenshottw.png
<vish> darkmatter: i just checked out fanzea theme , pretty impressive for a single guy to get so much work done :)
<vish> but i guess the plus side is , there is consistency there ;p
<darkmatter> vish: aye. it has its shortcomings though. I have menus n stuff at 16 pixels. and I have fuzzy little iOS blobs! ;P
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , i think he might have just scaled the icons down from one size..
<darkmatter> yea. some of them are crispy. others not so much. but wip's being what they are
<darkmatter> vish: I'm actually adapting some o' my designs to be moar 'buntu-ish. I think I could get it to fit in nicely with a few tweaks (I already like the general schtuff they're doing)
<vish> darkmatter: hmm , the radience seems to be a bit overboard with the inner-outline for menus , seems a bit too bright..
<darkmatter> vish: aye. the main drawback of radiance is if you drop compositing the menus and panels are flat. need a bit o contrast there. not black, just 5 or 6 shades darker sand ;)
<darkmatter> otherwise its not bad
<vish> yeah , only the menu was a bother on my eyes by being too bright
<darkmatter> btw. I'm currently tweaking radiance and ambiance for mo bettah padding in regards to the overall aesthetic + fixing a few buggs (uber dark insensitive text in menus)
<darkmatter> but gotta pause work on various things for a week. headin out on a medical trip again
<darkmatter> reminds me. I should get off my ass and shave in a bit
<thorwil> vish: if you want to get into blender, you should start with a tutorial. myself, i tend to learn by exploring and only look for documentation when i'm stuck, but with blender, that approach didn't work
<vish> thorwil: yup , i'v seen one of those..
<vish> still need to see the second part of the intro :D
<darkmatter> rooibos+lime= â¥
<thorwil> written ones with screenshots have their place, too
<thorwil> perhaps especially for getting round the gui itself
<vish> hehe! yeah , just wish i had more time :)
<thorwil> don't we all?
<vish> damn who ever stuck us all with only 24 hrs a day!
<darkmatter> vish: I haz an idea for an optional indicator-main-menu! including having an uby logo that changes state on available updates. and an entry proper for the update manager that goes bold text (<number of updates>) with maybe a little coloured arrow signifying security/enhancement/whatever based on teh level of importance! and it's non traditional to boot!
<darkmatter> vish. instead of popping up/minimizing the update manager, since the menu is the most commonly accessed feature for most users it makes sense to put that there. just one small feature of the idea. secondly, you could have an auto "update you moron" feature in the session menu (like teh win minus the mandatory reboot unless it's a driver :P)
<darkmatter> in case they forget ;o
<darkmatter> gonna have to mak semi live mockups though, for testing purposes
<vish> darkmatter: updates is not a new idea! :p
<vish> there have been mockups for that for more than a yr ;)
<vish> but mpt does not want to do that..
<darkmatter> vish: which is why I said "optional" :P
<darkmatter> because most so-called designers are clueless :P *ducks for cover*
<vish> darkmatter: no! no options allowed! ayatana will not give you options! ;p
<darkmatter> ;P
<darkmatter> vish: then I branch/fork! ;P
<vish> darkmatter: seriously , if you say , "add an option"! mark cries a little ;)
<darkmatter> vish: that's not what I meant by 'option' :P
<vish> darkmatter: no gconf either ;)
<darkmatter> vish. by 'option' I meant 'install this hear specialized but dirt simple indicator based applet if you so wish and get rid of the crud bloat gnome menubar"
<darkmatter> that discriptive enough? :P
<darkmatter> e in there somewhere :P
<darkmatter> here*
<vish> darkmatter: well , aernt you just reimplementing the notification area icon? :)
<darkmatter> vish: we can call it indicator-markandmpthatemelongtime-menu
 * vish maybe i just need to sleep :s
<darkmatter> vish: no! I hate notification areas as much as I hate windows popping up in my face or staring at a bazillion <whatevers> on a dock, etc to see whats changed!
<darkmatter> vish: first time the update notifier did that I almost shit my pants ;P
<vish> darkmatter: well , mpt's rationale for the window poping up was , instead of user having to click on an icon somewhere and then bring up the window , just bring up the window..
<darkmatter> yes. ala windows "fuck you! I'm in charge! users suck!" rational. seriously. do not force an issue in the midst of the "workflow" (pr0n streaming). make it auto on session quit or have a notification in the menu (session or main. whatever)
<darkmatter> in-your-face has long been shown to _not_ work
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , we all tried to yell that at mpt , but he is stubborn ya know ;)
<darkmatter> unless the goal is pissing people off, then it works quite well
<knome> darkmatter, can you please try to calm down?
<darkmatter> knome: I'm perfectly calm. now shush. you're interupting my rant :P
<knome> darkmatter, the ubuntu irc channel guidelines also apply to #ubuntu-artwork
<darkmatter> vish: even a "You have <number> updates pending. Please log in to review and install the available updates." banner message at gdm is feasible and far less intrusive
<darkmatter> knome: goodie. tell mark to sue me for breach of protocol. :P
<knome> darkmatter, i don't really think that most of the people want that kind of attitude or language in the channels
<darkmatter> attitude and language. let me tell you something. I've done more good in my life for the benefit of others than most would possibly dream of and done not but suffer in return. if the precious rules can't let slide the occasional "slip" than whatever. I'm too old to care about someone elses rules, and I've seen far worse things "veiled" as polite in official channels than one little profanity
<knome> that's not really the point. there is no exceptions to the rules.
<knome> it doesn't matter even if you donated all your money to ubuntu. the guidelines apply.
<darkmatter> I quit worrying about any level of even semi-official involvement after seeing firsthand the dirty little games members play. I' here to associate with people I respect, and above that I dun give a crap
<darkmatter> so in other words "go lecture someone who cares about hypocrisy"
<vish> alrighty! kids go to bed NOW!
<troy_s> Sorry
 * vish sleeps too :)
<knome> night vish
<troy_s> darkmatter: Family channel. No swearing. You already know that...
<troy_s> darkmatter: Fair?
<darkmatter> lol. one slip of the tongue (not even directed at a person)  and it's BOFH mode. rofl. maybe you should op in other official channels and ban all the fools that twist the rules _regularly_ and treat each other like general crap under the veil of the CoC. is that equally fair? anyway. I'm out. got better thing to do than discuss this
<knome> darkmatter, sorry to see you go
<troy_s> vish: The files will have broken links. There is a menu item to find the missing assets.
<troy_s> darkmatter: I don't care to really have a huge debate about it. It's pretty obvious that language is an issue around these parts so try and keep the tone family friendly. Passion is great. Random gutter speak not so much.
<darkmatter> knome: sorry, but I dun stay where the children try to muscle people for a simple mistake (not referring to you, obviously, you didn't try to pull the op card). I've better thing to do quite frankly than soothing inflated egos :) take care dude. I've gotta go and endure my monthly week of tortures anyhow
<thorwil> with more children like troy_s on the intertubes, lolspeak would be something entirely different, me thinks
<troy_s> thorwil: Probably. Although I have a helicopter landing pad the size of a grapefruit on my head, which is hard to reconcile with being a child.
<knome> troy_s, a small or big grapefruit?
<troy_s> knome: Big. Very big.
<knome> :o
 * thorwil 's imagination has special forces land on the helicopter pad of troy's head, which somewhat resembles a grapefruit. the pirates demand that the special forces define their target audience before shooting
<troy_s> Wow. I got accused of inflated ego with an op mode shift. Now that's something I haven't seen.
<troy_s> (Especially considering that I was randomly typing commands into the IRC session to see if I could remember even how to _get_ ops and remove them. LOL.)
<troy_s> thorwil: Shoot first if you know what's good for you.
<troy_s> thorwil: Anything new?
<thorwil> troy_s: i guess you know about the generative wallpaper plans, drifting apart and converging towards specific dates?
<thorwil> troy_s: i have happy clients at the queen mary university. will likely blog about it once this is wrapped up
<troy_s> thorwil: I saw the animated wallpaper plans. Not really sure what it brings to the table when the default wallpaper is as it is.
<thorwil> troy_s: to me it seems to be throwing composition and any sense of precision/engineering out of the window to realize an artsy concept that rather belongs in some exhibition
<troy_s> thorwil: Erm. Animated wallpapers are at least one full year past mainstream. Arguably Android pushed it to the next level.
<troy_s> thorwil: But that said, a purple mush of Cream of Wheat isn't exactly communicating anything, and moving it around won't change that fact.
<troy_s> thorwil: If you cut up a sheet of white paper and move the squares around, it's... underwhelming?
<thorwil> not with the proper substances taken in beforehand, i guess
<troy_s> thorwil: I strongly suspect the godawful abortion of mediocrity is coming down from high up the mountain. It probably drives the poor people that were forced to barf it out nuts.
<thorwil> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_PS-UEA/ and http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_PS-DE/ indicate ... some changes
<thorwil> as i have the feeling i know who had those positions
<troy_s> thorwil: Oh good... 'it is beautiful and usable as well'
<troy_s> thorwil: I am shocked that someone manages to type that. Or even conceive of it. It is like there are a million companies out there that didn't have the epiphany moment of "Ohhhh gee... we only needed to realize we needed to make our products beautiful and usable. Silly us."
<troy_s> Although it _is_ good to see UxD suddenly on there.
<troy_s> That's exciting.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-08
<thorwil> all those helpful people commenting on bug #160311
<thorwil> i wonder what could be done to keep people from using reports like threads in a forum
<vish> thorwil: heh , you had to mention that bug ;p  and we got subscribed to it ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-10
<Caer> Hello everyone, I'm a launchpad newbie and I can't find something like a SVN for Humanity icons, is there just a tarball ?
<Flannel> Caer: the package is humanity-icon-theme (I believe), so you can install that if you're in Ubuntu, or just download the deb and unzip that
<Flannel> Caer: You can get the source tarball from LP too, but the other ways tend to be easier in my experience
<troy_s> vish: Greets.
<vish> troy_s: heya..
<Caer> thanks Flannel
<vish> troy_s: got disconnected there.. are you still subscribed to the artwork ML?
<thorwil> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/507  scribus to be used by canonical, good to see.
<thorwil> anyone familiar with PPAs knows how to solve this? http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/260245/
<thorwil> nevermind, seem that part actually worked, though it doesnt' find scribus-trunk
<troy_s> vish: No.
<thorwil> troy_s: i don't think you missed anything there
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> thorwil: OH. Lol.
<Andre_Gondim> Hi, I need to know the code of that orange of the new ubuntu logo
<Andre_Gondim> to make some t-shirt
<thorwil> Andre_Gondim: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<Andre_Gondim> thorwil, so helpful, thanks ;)
<thorwil> do i imagine that, or did he implicitly complain that i didn't deliver just the color code?
<vish> thorwil: you imagine too much ;-)
<troy_s> vish: Why do you ask?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-11
<Caer> I created a tango-like icon for Irssi (or any command-line IRC app) : http://caerbazar.free.fr/terminal-muc.svg (48x48)
<Caer> should I work to have it included in humanity-icon-theme? and if so, what resolution should I work on?
<Caer> I would also love to make more application specific icons, would that be useful?
<Caer> (now off to bed)
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> with maverick how is managed the smal arrow into indicator-me for running aplications   (before it was inside the icon theme but now i can't find where its placed) ?
<zniavre> application-running.png *
<vish> troy_s: nah.. i was thinking of reviving the artwork team/ML.. seems we are doing nothing .. especially last cycle nothing was done ..  and there was talk about alpha wallpapers earlier but nothing seems to have been put into action.. i'm planning on writing a mail to the list to know if people are interested in doing anything...
<vish> oops troy isnt here :(
 * darkmatter gently pats vish
<vish> :)
<vish> Caer: hi.. i'm one of the authors for humanity..  we dont include app specific icons in humanity.. we try not to change branding of the apps.. you could try sending the icon to the main authors/debian maintainers of the package ..
<vish> Caer: not sure what irssi app 'muc' refers to though..
<Caer> hi vish
<Caer> by muc I meant any multi user chat or IM program
<vish> ah..
<Caer> I tried to make a generic icon, like htop and gnome-monitor have
<vish> Caer: ok.. i noticed it does look generic but is the icon used? is that a generic icon name  ?
<vish> Caer: i mean a standard icon name that applications fallback to?
<Caer> no, I just made it and don't work on any application
<vish> Caer: ok, so there would be no point in including it in the theme, if its not used .. :)
<Caer> fine, but why would developers reference an icon that doesn't exist ?
<Caer> Should I try to convince irssi to ship it first ?
<vish> Caer: yup..
<Caer> ok, thanks
<vish> Caer: or try to get it included as a new generic icon name in gnome-icon-theme
<Caer> directly on launchpad, or through a ML?
<vish> Caer: there was already a similar concept put forward for gwibber/twitter  icon
<vish> Caer: you can file a bug gnome-icon-theme  in bugzilla.. but i doubt they would include it though.. [not trying to discourage you , but just letting you know]
<Caer> no problem, and thank you
<Caer> any idea of other needed icons I could work on?
<vish> Caer: very rarely new icon names are added to gnome-icon-theme.. you get asked a lot of questions.. if it is really required, will any app dev use it.. is any app dev interested in using it.
<vish> Caer: for humanity?
<Caer> (i'm not sure of the limits between Humanity and gnome-icon-theme)
<Caer> but yes, for example
<darkmatter> g-i-t = "we're to lazy to make icons, so don't propose any" ;)
<vish> hehe ;)
<vish> Caer: usually new app icon names are requested by the application devs.. and icons get done.. not the other way around..
<vish> thats how it works in gnome..
<vish> Caer: if you are looking to work on humanity.. its pretty late for Maverick, we are past UI freeze. so not much going to change now...
<vish> Caer: also , since there is a call for a new icon theme ideas, not sure if humanity will be the default for Natty..
<vish> Caer: you can work on gnome icons.. they still have a lot of Hi-resolution icons they want to complete
<vish> Caer: and gnome icons are not going away anytime soon ;)
<Caer> as long as everyting is Tango-like, that's fine
<Caer> thanks for all of your suggestions, and I understand that I should wait for the next cycle
<Caer> And I'm going for gnome-icon big sizes, and try to get irssi to ship terminal-muc :)
<vish> np.. :)
 * darkmatter needs cookies :/
<thorwil> doctormo, kwwii: how did this happen? http://ubuntu-free-culture.deviantart.com/  vs  http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/gallery/25667683
<vish> thorwil: doctormo is an evil genius, thats why ;)
<vish> thorwil: afaik , they both discussed it and i think it was merged..
<thorwil> vish: i guess the wallpaper thing on flickr works because the barrier to entry is very low (and because a lot more people do photos than drawings/illustrations)
<thorwil> vish: i hope the empty group can be deleted
<thorwil> vish: the countdown banner thing likely works because it's a well defined task with deadline
<vish> thorwil: yeah.. it should have been.. we lack a little organization...  we need co-ordiation.
<vish> co-ordination
<thorwil> vish: both benefit from being official, not being the idea of just some guy in the community. this provides a sense or security/reliability
<thorwil> there's also the aspect of visibility. work in the open encourages more work
<vish> exactly!!!
<vish> thorwil: i'm still not sure why doctormo started the group as ubuntu-artists rather than ubuntu-artwork ...  he did announce that group on the artwork ML.. i think he might have over looked it.. but for now i'm still sticking with "doctormo is an evil genius part" ;p
<thorwil> vish: so to revive the team/ml, you should care about visibility, clear tasks and deadlines, official endorsement
<vish> thorwil: yeah.. first we need to know *if* people are interested.. no use putting in work when on one is subscribed there .. or we need to think of better ways to get the message out...
<thorwil> vish: the deviantart concept is called "Groups". it's not gallery, channel or collection. the group contains artists, so ...
<thorwil> vish: first asking if people are interested leads nowhere
<thorwil> there's no motivation, no commitment
<vish> maybe.. but we need to try asking too.. atleast if there are a couple of people.. not saying we shouldnt organize .. irrespective of whatever goes on on the list, there needs to be organization..
<vish> thorwil: i spoke to the xubuntu/kubuntu people too , xubuntu needs help.. so we can include theme too
<vish> kubuntu changes very little from upstream.. so they are happy.
<vish> them*
<Thingymebob> Not sure about this, replaced hi-color launcher icons in my panel with some freshly created mono ones to match the notification area http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/will.bickerstaff/SomeStuff
<Thingymebob> Think they now look like they belong there?
<thorwil> yes
<Thingymebob> cool, maybe I'll make some more for common apps
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-12
<vish> yay! troy_s is here ;)
<vish>  <vish> troy_s: nah.. i was thinking of reviving the artwork team/ML.. seems we are doing nothing .. especially last cycle nothing was done ..  and there was talk about alpha wallpapers earlier but nothing seems to have been put into action.. i'm planning on writing a mail to the list to know if people are interested in doing anything...
<vish> [13:26] <vish> oops troy isnt here :(
<fhein> hey
<fhein> first of all, I must say that Ubuntu 10.04 looks awesome.. really like the theme
<thorwil> ho
<fhein> but I just installed 10.10 beta, and am I the only one who thinks the purple-orange mix looks a little off?
<thorwil> fhein: you are most likely not the only one. but you will hardly find those responsible here outside of london office hours ;)
<fhein> hehe, just checking
<fhein> is there any design/artwork feedback site, or is irc the best forum for discussing ideas etc?
<thorwil> fhein: replies to posts on http://design.canonical.com/ might have among the better chances of receiving attention
<fhein> cool, I'll check it out
<thorwil> fhein: note that i has been declared that the 10.10 wallpaper will be changed, already
<thorwil> fhein: this explains the idea behind it: http://design.canonical.com/2010/09/ubuntu-default-wallpaper/
<fhein> pretty interesting idea with a slowly changing wallpaper too
<troy_s> vish: Apparently I was. Strange.
<troy_s> The reality is that cycling a wallpaper won't change the fact that it is a poorly executed and underwhelming experience.
<troy_s> Widget's comment, as derogatory as it is, stands as the best summation.
<troy_s> vish: I don't really know what to suggest with the list. Personally, there are a number of issues facing it. Who should be on the list? Why? Inclusion is great, but not when it simply amounts to a batch of poorly informed opinions on various things.
<troy_s> vish: Second would be the big question of why? Why does the list exist? There isn't much reason to as it currently stands. It even creates some degree of confusion (as can be seen here) where people _assume_ that xxx decision is made there.
<troy_s> vish: It likely need to have a _purpose_, and that purpose should be loudly stated somewhere. I believe that was tried once, to be a place for community contributions, but that has clearly not been a growing audience.
<vish> re
<vish> troy_s: heya.. :)
<vish> troy_s: exactly! many dont know what can be done in Ubuntu.. we first need to draw lines where we can change what community can work on..
<vish> troy_s: its not just about the alpha wallpapers, but we can do so much more.. , backgrounds for games etc..
<troy_s> vish: The information out there is pretty sad.
<vish> yupp.
<troy_s> vish: The only issue is that there is the great huge dilemma - first is information and second is process.
<troy_s> vish: There isn't much of a _need_ currently.
<vish> troy_s: isnt a need for which?
<troy_s> vish: And even where there might be a need, there is no process or reason to harness such a team (even if it demonstrated that it was capable of producing anything of merit, which to date, is clearly on the lacking side.)
<troy_s> vish: That sort of a resource.
<vish> there is!
<troy_s> vish: It would likely require actively finding projects that _desire_ or _need_ that sort of input.
<vish> troy_s: but people dont know.. there is spread Ubuntu , where people can do tshirt designs , designs for presentations , for mugs.
<vish> for banners..
<vish> people are submitting their art on deviant art etc.. but is any of it being used?
<vish> why cant we use it?
<vish> we need to be organized, that is what we are missing , IMHO ;)
<troy_s> vish: Personally, it would be nice to see a listing of talent somewhere.
<troy_s> vish: That is the age old chant. Organize.
<troy_s> vish: It never really amounts to anything other than organization.
<vish> troy_s: haha , the talented is not an easy resource ;)
<troy_s> vish: Supplant it with information.
<troy_s> vish: _If_ there are people in the community, maybe offering up a single resource for outsiders is useful?
<vish> thats what i want to find out.. , are there people interested..
<troy_s> vish: And most importantly, don't rely on an empty label. "artist" "designer" "illustrator" are scary terms. If you replace them with a word like "brilliant", you can see why I worry when people self label themselves.
<troy_s> vish: Think of a Behance for Ubuntu maybe?
<vish> hehe.. ;)  in the words of some famous canadian.. "Artist is not a something to be self proclaimed" ;p
<troy_s> vish: Sounds like an idiot. But I agree with that sentiment.
<troy_s> vish: Create the work and let others do the labelling.
<vish> yup!
<troy_s> vish: I _do_ think that it is possible to become a valuable core of folks, but right now... it's pretty hard to see value there.
<troy_s> vish: And there is no relationship there. Not much trust. Etc.
<vish> troy_s: i believe thats where you can help, be part of a core.. :)
<troy_s> vish: So I suppose I'd probably try to focus on building that.
<troy_s> vish: My time has long since waned on that front my friend.
<vish> ;)
<troy_s> vish: There is a very real chasm between coding and art, design, blah blah.
<troy_s> vish: And I'm not sure how to bridge it. It is a cultural issue.
<troy_s> vish: What are your thoughts?
<vish> troy_s: lets start small , and not get into coding.. lets start with what we can change.. my idea was to setup/start something where the community has control of, that is where we can take control of the alpha wallpapers..
<vish> troy_s: then we can do backgrounds/art in games etc..
<troy_s> vish: That would expand into politicking. Good luck on that one.
<vish> troy_s: not politicking.. :)  canonical does not have much interest in those yet
<vish> troy_s: we just cant start to do everything , we need to be able to show we can do something effectively..
<troy_s> vish: Creating work is tricky enough, let alone doing it in some sort of collaborative setting.
<troy_s> vish: Yes. It is a well trodden path. ;)
<troy_s> vish: I suppose, in a roundabout way, I'm not entirely sure there is a core there at all. And where there is, there is probably significant aesthetic ... uh ... differences.
<vish> troy_s: well , i think we have atleast 3 whom i can think of as a core , thats counting you , thorwil and kwwii
<troy_s> vish: I'm not there. And won't be.
<vish> ;p
<troy_s> vish: Sorry.
<troy_s> vish: I simply have no time to be honest, and I'm not entirely sure why I should be there at all.
<troy_s> vish: I'd rather just like to see people's work.
<troy_s> vish: People's work tells all.
<troy_s> vish: And there isn't enough of it.
<vish> troy_s: np.. well , just thought you might be willing too.. :)  since you often speak about making a change.. well.. nevermind then ;)
<vish> s/too/to
<troy_s> vish: Change is a tricky thing. It's my subjective opinion on change obviously, and it is clearly a view that isn't shared.
<vish> troy_s: hmm, i dont think you got the point.. you need not do them.. but alteast there needs to be someone to review and formulate a direction.
<troy_s> vish: And I believe there is quite a bit of flux going on at Canonical at the moment WRT some of the team.
<thorwil> vish: you can always count on troy_s for words and count on me for very constructive remarks! ^^
<vish> thorwil: ;)
<vish> thorwil: troy_s: my idea was to have a core who could help review and direct submissions or create a direction..
<vish> obviously not to do the work.. art is not easy ;p
<troy_s> vish: Eep.
<troy_s> vish: Are there 'submissions' or work?
<vish> troy_s: well, whats this > http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/gallery/25667683 , why are people adding their work there?
<thorwil> vish: i think the worry here is that "submission" implicates something closed, already wrapped up
<troy_s> vish: I believe that is an offshoot of something (correct me if I'm wrong) Dr. Mo started.
<troy_s> vish: And uh.
<vish> troy_s: yes , thats his but can we use them? why are people submitting there?
<thorwil> vish: maybe because they are herd animals?
<vish> thorwil: we dont have to close submissions at any point.. its just my general idea..
<troy_s> vish: Erm... have you _looked_ at that page?
<vish> yea.. no direction! , but can we direct.?
<thorwil> vish: no, just the term submission could be seen as pushing things in that fire-and-forget direction
<troy_s> vish: Everyone wants to direct. And why shouldn't they? Who makes xxx more or less valuable to yyy? Tough questions.
<vish> thorwil: troy_s: is there no hope ? ;)  let me try asking in a different way.. how can the artwork team/ML be useful?
<vish> right now , we did nothing during maverick cycle..
<troy_s> vish: I'm sure there is hope. I'm just not sure I can see a solution, let alone an 'easy' one. There are PLENTY of bright folks around these parts, and yet nothing yet has really geled.
<troy_s> vish: I dare say that maybe this whole thing is backwards?
<vish> troy_s: why is that? what do you think is the problem? apart from the ageold rant "Cultural" ;p
<thorwil> vish: it would be all about having a niche as mission that can be filled, lasting
<troy_s> vish: The _value_ of the work comes from individuals. Maybe it is time to start examining the work and figuring out who you / the community desires?
<troy_s> vish: Maybe there is something to be had there?
<vish> well , we can trying praying for unicorns.. but are we going to be able to get them? :D
<troy_s> vish: No. I meant crawling through existing work. Let's assume that there is a community right now of X size.
<troy_s> vish: Having those existing participants evaluate the work on that link and maybe the Flickr link, might be ... insightful.
<vish> troy_s: no need to just crawl there , but we can setup a better system
<troy_s> vish: By crawl I meant scour / crawl / examine.
<vish> troy_s: i was ranting this earlier and doctormo + pleia setup a site with cchost, we can start with a new system
<vish> there is no system right now..
<troy_s> vish: Is it the system?
<vish> and no one cares..
<vish> everyone wants to talk but there is little action..
<troy_s> vish: It's the people. It's the work. Likely the people you desire have already created work. For various reasons (and that is another story) you value their work. Go talk to _them_.
<troy_s> vish: It will _always_ be random noise coming in. Again, any customer support person or scripter can decide one day to label themselves an artist. They might even fool folks into hiring them.
<troy_s> vish: So skip that. Go find the work.
<vish> troy_s: well , sometimes talking to them is tedious! they are tl;dr   ;p
<troy_s> vish: And find the people that are behind it.
 * thorwil does not really ponder asking bjÃ¶rk for a new sound theme
<troy_s> vish: Flickr has some people with eyes.
<troy_s> vish: I'd start there.
<darkmatter> and avoid deviantfart like the plague ;p
<troy_s> There are some pretty good Deviant art folks, but not many that seem to cross over the line.
<thorwil> diamonds in dung
<vish> troy_s: to be honest , *i* aint anywhere nearly as good as either you or thorwil but i have been able to do some work *on* Ubuntu, and kinda have been able to make some more difference than you'll .. how is that? why is that? this is what got me started thinking.. there are surely people more talented than me out there on the ML who are interested on doing actual work.. i just thought i'd try to help them :)
<troy_s> vish: There _are_ some interesting folks in that Flickr selection. How many are interested in working under a unified banner? What might be accomplished? All pretty interesting questions, but it probably requires a plan and then the ability to attract them to the plan.
<troy_s> vish: Believe me, I ain't good.
<vish> troy_s: believe me i'm even worse ;)
<troy_s> vish: But formulating a plan and valuing people's work is probably the best medicine. For example, I was just perusing the Flickr group and there are some submissions there that, while being of whatever worth as a wallpaper, are clearly created with some artistic vision.
<troy_s> vish: Figuring out what to do and then being interested in them as _people_ might be worth building?
<thorwil> vish: you seem to be a better team player than i am and unlike me, you havn't lost most of your motivation. you also seem to not worry how your involvment here east into the time you should perhpas spend more directl yon a career
<troy_s> vish: For example - http://www.flickr.com/photos/flamuraliu/4457570324/in/pool-556923@N24/
<thorwil> and you can still type, ouch
<troy_s> vish: That person I'd be interested in simply because of the various bits they have created.
<troy_s> vish: They clearly have some pretty remarkable talent. There is a vision. There is execution.
<vish> thorwil: i just got lucky! :)  truthfully i actually dont spend much time on Ubuntu, probably an hr or two a day ;)
<thorwil> an hour or 2 daily and "not  much", hmmm
<troy_s> vish: Another person worth following up. http://www.flickr.com/photos/42931016@N08/4906928154/in/pool-556923@N24/
<thorwil> makes me wonder what a skilled, resourceful photographer would make out of a "create template shots for an icon theme" job
<troy_s> thorwil: There's a good idea.
<troy_s> thorwil: Might I dare say that it could snap the damn T / O nightmare?
<troy_s> thorwil: Creating photorealistic icons from custom photography is likely far faster too.
<troy_s> thorwil: But hell... that's probably far down the foodchain. It would end up another one of the 'slap these icons over whatever'. Higher level woudn't hurt.
<troy_s> Wholly poopers there is a lot of double u tee eff in that pool.
<troy_s> vish: At any rate... I'm sure there is a viable path. The more I think about it though, the less I'd worry about the 'community' and all of the passing garbage chucked out of a window and more about the individuals. Those with a longer term dedication to creating work. I'm sure there are a few exemplary folks in that Flickr group. Figuring out _who_ is likely at least as hard as creating interesting work. ;)
<troy_s> vish: To quote a very clever and creative fellow - http://gregorywood.co.uk/journal/cleese-on-creativity
<vish> ;)
<troy_s> vish: See what happens if you approach those folks? I wonder...
<troy_s> vish: This person has some interesting stuff going on: http://www.flickr.com/photos/evil_m0nkey/4405023316/ There are plenty of misses in their selections, but hits have some magical craftsmanship.
<troy_s> I sincerely wonder how many contributions are actually from people that care about Libre software... lol.
<vish> troy_s: haha , well.. i'm not gonna be contacting them anyway ;)
<vish> i think almost everyone tries a shot like this ;) > http://www.flickr.com/photos/evil_m0nkey/4560262010/in/photostream/
<troy_s> vish: Hard to execute really.
<troy_s> vish: That whole realm of artistic architectural photography is pretty tricky.
<troy_s> vish: Is there anything interesting going on at the list?
<vish> troy_s: nope.. nothing.. zero.. zilch.. nada.. ;)
<troy_s> vish: Well... plenty of soil to plant in then I suppose... ;)
<vish> haha!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-06
<trumpetmic> hi folks
<trumpetmic> it's my first time here
<trumpetmic> also looking at brainstorm for the first time, which seems cool
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-08
<trumpetmic> anyone using some form of version control on their design documents?
<thorwil> trumpetmic: sure. bzr if i might use launchpad. otherwise i may opt for hg (just because bitbucket uses hg and offers private repose for free)
<thorwil> should you happen to use libre/open-office, note that its default way to store documents is a total catastrophe for version management. can't get useful diffs
<thorwil> the lumiera folks found some way to make it save to some uncompressed text format
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-09
<troy_s> Interesting
<troy_s> That icon set I assume is the new Ubuntu look correct?
<troy_s> Props if it is. Which I'm willing to bet it is. ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: Confirm or deny?
<thorwil> troy_s: in that case, i pick "or"
<troy_s> thorwil: Hrm. You have seen it yes?
<thorwil> no
<troy_s> thorwil: Little bit of fluke, but I'm willing to wager money it's the target.
<troy_s> Let's see if the bet turns out correct.
<troy_s> The folder perpetuates that sort of legacy looking folder that I've never been a huge fan of, but alas, all in all quite tight if you look at the forest.
<thorwil> the folders look blurry
<troy_s> thorwil: Your eyes are crossed.
<troy_s> thorwil: Pretty sure there will be much blah blah blah once they are released.
<thorwil> that stuff makes me as excited as a tree in the forrest
<troy_s> thorwil: Well... I guess I'd call the overall thing quite positve. Can't see any other way to describe it.
<troy_s> I could probably say that "Egads they kept that damn rounded corner folder donkey from the early era" but that's really probably a minor bump.
<troy_s> The postage stamp, albeit more mimesis of the banned-in-court variety, is well crafted.
<troy_s> At least there is some semblance of craftsmanship in there. That's got to be positive thorwil, no?
<thorwil> back when i experimented with translucent orange folders, i found it very hard to avoid dirty colors due the other side of the folder pretty much having to be grayish. this problem hasn't been solved, here
<troy_s> thorwil: That and the linear light fact unless you properly deal with it in compositing. You can never properly compose in sRGB.
<thorwil> sure, everything that is not a folder looks much more convincing
<troy_s> thorwil: But really, still feels like a moot point. Would it be nice if there was some interesting design approach to abandon 1960 office folders? Hell yes. Will we see it? Uh... no.
<troy_s> thorwil: I suspect Voldemort had a sizable impact on the look of that default folder.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's got cliche and similar trends going on.
<troy_s> thorwil: Cliche and tack.
<troy_s> thorwil: The earmarks of Voldemort.
<troy_s> thorwil: But again, as a whole, I can't see how you could make a case against it.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's a vast leap forward from that outline, outline, outline, inset, outline, outline, outline, HUGE OUTLINE uh... project that shall remain nameless.
<thorwil> troy_s: you can dance a tango around naming it, i guess everyone here knows who, anyway ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: There are actually people that prefer the old brown paper bag icon too. _That_ utterly shocks me. But alas, I suppose that is more proof that the culture of aesthetic is pretty much busted.
<troy_s> thorwil: Cute though. I wonder if it is the set. That's where my money is. Too many overlaps.
<thorwil> http://vimeo.com/26633949
<troy_s> thorwil: Don't get it.
<troy_s> thorwil: At all.
<troy_s> thorwil: Head smack dont-get-it.
<thorwil> troy_s: late in the video, they mention the setup causes a double image of the pen, so you see it both on the paper and in the open slot
<troy_s> thorwil: I just am struck by the lack of "Why the hell"
<troy_s> thorwil: Don't get it. At all.
<thorwil> artistically, it's just tracing. but an interesting experiment regarding perception. if only that would be explained better, instead of this comment-salad
<troy_s> thorwil: I guess I don't get it because it tends toward some notion that physiological mimesis is bliss, which in my estimation is just pure tripe. You get it a bit with motion pictures and such where some people become zealots of the 50mm lens to replicate the sensation of view blah blah.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just makes me ill when I read that cruft or see the bubbling of it.
<thorwil> troy_s: but, but ... physiological mimesis is the bee's knee! pure awesome, with only one down-side: not enough double outlines!!
<troy_s> thorwil: Lulz.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just take a photo and kill yourself.
<troy_s> thorwil: Be done with it.
<troy_s> thorwil: Yay bliss.
