#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-13
<snap-l> Yeah, working here as well
<snap-l> as for posting a comment, though....
<snap-l> notsomuch
<rick_h_> ugh, I've not had any time to hack this week :/
<snap-l> Too busy with work?
<rick_h_> work + wife's had stuff.
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h_> it's this month. Wife has things every weekend day
<rick_h_> just buried, getting ancy
<snap-l> I finally got a Bicycle Repair Manual
<snap-l> which, coindicentally is the name of the book I bought
<rick_h_> reading this start small stay small business book and that's not helping, prodding
<rick_h_> awesome! I need to get my bike in
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Yeah, I want to do more riding
<snap-l> Getting a little annoyed that it's June, and my bike has been unridden for over a year.
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> snap-l: my boy is getting better on the drums. he's almost reached your skill level http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygb3S5nbGTA
<greg-g> huh: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlEOoO4Ozn9IdFRjRUdYWndTekotQnc1Q3pIU1hEQ0E&hl=en_US#gid=0
<rick_h_> hmm
<Lledargo> greg-g: probably: http://abock.org/2010/07/13/amazon-mp3-store-in-banshee
<snap-l> "On the other hand, the document also confirms that AT&T plans to dismantle T-Mobileâs existing 3G network, and redeploy that as LTE. This, in turn, will make the 3G devices currently owned by T-Mobile customers useless for anything beyond very slow data service and voice calls."
<snap-l> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/ATandTMobile-Slam-Merger-Opponents-in-FCC-Motion-188346/
<snap-l> Yeah, that's totally pro-consumer.
<rick_h_> they're just going to have to offer new phones
<rick_h_> only problem will be what phones you get
<Lledargo> They are also putting bandwidth caps on their DSL lines.
<greg-g> Lledargo: yeah, that is a bit old of a post. I was more looking at the downward slope now that Amazon is no longer the default music store in Ubuntu's Banshee package
<rick_h_> right, but do we know much else besides the total?
<greg-g> nope
<rick_h_> far be it for me to stand up for Canonical, but is it the people that used to buy stopping, lower $$ for same number of sells, etc?
<greg-g> which is why all I had to say initially was "huh" ;)
<rick_h_> there could be a lot of stuff inside of there
<rick_h_> gotcha
<greg-g> just interesting
<rick_h_> yea, but I don't want to even start the discussion without more details that just totals
<greg-g> I just saw that GBurt updated the spreadsheet (it is listed in my google docs and I was loking for something else)
<rick_h_> not without my flame suit on
<greg-g> oh, totally
<snap-l> brousch: My Sister-in-law approves of your award. :)
<brousch> excellent
<brousch> who is will fuqua?
<rick_h_> Blazeix
<brousch> okie
<snap-l> All I have to say is there's a lot of fucking Doctor Who on flickr.
<Team-Xlink> Wow, I just found where Gmail saves the chat files.
 * Team-Xlink face palms.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ohman, so tempted. viewsonic gtablet for $269. cyanogenmod supports it
<snap-l> Man, I'm an idiot.
<snap-l> Wondering why my network is so slow. Forgot that I was downloading TWiT.
<rick_h_> really? Downloading a podcast makes a noticable hit on your network?
<rick_h_> or do you mean video?
<snap-l> video
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> sorry, monday...
<snap-l> No problem.
<greg-g> g'morn
<snap-l> God morning
<snap-l> Good morning, too
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> "Have an adjective-free morning!"... that has potential.
<Wolfger> but I suspect "adjective-free" is itself an adjective. Conundrum.
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> Is there a problem with half the internet, or is it just me?
<Wolfger> maybe your half. Not my half.
<rick_h_> nothing here so far
<snap-l> Hmmm... several sites that I've hit are AWOL
<snap-l> both of which are not Chrysler approved, I'm sure. ;)
<snap-l> OK, I think it was just temporary.
<Lledargo> Wolfger: "Have a very non-descriptive, from lack of adjectives, morning."
<Wolfger> thank you. I'm sure I will
<Wolfger> Ah, good old American prudishness... http://www.freep.com/article/20110612/COL01/106120454/Mitch-Albom-That-s-not-what-you-do-with-a-camera
<Wolfger> Mitch seems to forget that before cameras were artists and sculptors capturing images of nude bodies...
<snap-l> I thought Mitch Albom gave up writing and became Oprah
<greg-g> alrighty, going down periscope. microblogs and irc are now closed....
 * greg-g waves!
<brousch> wow, my summer schedule is packed. i'm really gonna need a better organizational/todo thingy
<Wolfger> "Biggest stories of 2011"..... Aren't they, oh, 6 months too early for that? Or at least 5 months too early?
<Wolfger> brousch: better todo lists don't magically give you more time. ;-)
<brousch> right, but they will help me sort priorities and not forget stuff
<snap-l> Wolfger: Bah, never let reality get in the way of a good headline
<snap-l> brousch: Nothing, save for you, can set priorities
<snap-l> and priorities are very ephemeral
<brousch> i need to see all my commitments in one place to determine priorities
<snap-l> Havei I mentioned GTD lately?
<brousch> ug
<snap-l> Even though I'm the shittiest practitioner of GTD, it's what works best for me
<snap-l> Thing is, in order to have it all in front of you, you'll need to capture it all
<snap-l> clarify it all
<snap-l> and keep it all current
<snap-l> otherwise you'll look at a list, and remember there's something else out there that you're not tracking that might be more important
<Wolfger> Which makes it yet another T to GD
<snap-l> Wolfger: You're doing it anyway, just half-assed. ;)
<Wolfger> on a good day
<Wolfger> quarter-assed typically
<Wolfger> eighth some days
<snap-l> Heh
<Wolfger> "firefighter" is an honorable trade...
<Wolfger> well, in modern times at least. Not back when they went around setting fires so they could loot houses....
<Wolfger> the problem with being proactive is that nobody really appreciates what you do.
<Wolfger> If you wait until it becomes a huge issue and then deal with it well and quickly, your efforts are given much more appreciation.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Think of it as negative reinforcement
<snap-l> nobody appreciates what you do, but everyone can get on your case for things you don't do
<snap-l> including you
<snap-l> And now time for conference call #1
<snap-l> Password should be between 8-10 characters
<snap-l> (sigh)
<rick_h_> between?
<rick_h_> we had a password rant this weekend while playing cards with the neighbors
<devinheitmueller> Sure, between, as in > 8 and < 10.  ;-)
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Well, it's nice of them to narrow down the rainbow-table, assuming they're even using some encryption
<devinheitmueller> heh
<snap-l> Seriously, shaXsum with some salt
<snap-l> Then I could enter in the Gettysburg address as my password, and your app won't care.
<greg-g> oh stupid python question. How can I iterate over to variables in a for loop. I want to do: for i in range(1,100) and x in range(500,600): # the syntax is my question, of course :)
<rick_h_> for i,v in zip(range(1,100), range(500, 600))
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#zip
<greg-g> oh, neat, thanks!
<rick_h_> and use xrange vs range
<Wolfger> double sigh....
<greg-g> huh, re: xrange, I didn't see that before. Thanks.
<Wolfger> "between 8 and 10" is 9, and wtf are you doing limiting the number of characters?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, more profecient since it doens't wait to build the lists first
<rick_h_> less in memory
<greg-g> I like
<greg-g> I'm working with iterations of a 1000, so useful
<rick_h_> definitely
<snap-l> Yay, won an auction for highlights from Wendy Carlos' Switched on Boxed Set.
<snap-l> I think that's the only way I'm going to be able to hear this damn thing
<brousch> i made this theme music for an intro to a video series from CoNGA-WM. opinions? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/CoNGA-WM.mp3
<snap-l> A bit noisy.
<jrwren> snap-l: highlights?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, it's a promo CD>
<snap-l> so it has a few tracks from each of the discs.
<brousch> noisy?
<jrwren> 1992 - Switched on Bach 2000  ?
<snap-l> jrwren: No, the original
<jrwren> 1968?
<snap-l> Yes, It was re-released in 1999
<snap-l> Switched on Bach, Switched on Bach II, Switched on Brandenburgs, and The Well-Tempered Synthesizer
<rick_h_> anyone know how to do a 'print' in sql say in postgresql scripts?
<snap-l> brousch: Not sure what the scratching is for?
<snap-l> It doesn't make sense for the piece.
<brousch> turning on the electrical drums
<snap-l> And what's the ending for?
<snap-l> I guess I need to see it in context. ;)
<brousch> it's just an intro sound
<brousch> to a videocast
<snap-l> brousch: If I heard that whole thing through my speakers, I'd wonder what went wrong
<snap-l> I'd start checking network connections, md5sums of the files, etc.
<brousch> i found a shorter end scratchy thing (unplugging)
<brousch> i guess i don't know how to end a song. i cop out by cutting it off with a sound effect
<snap-l> Heh
<greg-g> "better to not run your code and let others think it doesn't work than to run it and remove all doubt"
<snap-l> brousch: http://ubuntuone.com/p/yyn/
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome reuse
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) thanks
<rick_h_> "I think it'll work..."
<rick_h_> "Did you test it?"
<rick_h_> "Well, not exactly..."
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I'm at the point right now
<snap-l> select 'Testing'
<greg-g> now to get the data ready
<snap-l> Bah, scrollback confusion.
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/341/
<rick_h_> is what I'm messing with trying to get working
<snap-l> rick_h_: Without seeing the data, I'm not sure what you're trying to do
<rick_h_> create a cursor
<rick_h_> based off a query
<greg-g> I have one of those, it points at things
<rick_h_> heh, yea
<greg-g> sorry, ignore me
 * greg-g goes back down periscope
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm nto sure, but I think you're missing a step
<snap-l> ie: opening the cursor
<rick_h_> yea, tried that. Get a syntax error if I open it
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/342/ works
<rick_h_> so I don't think I need the open
<snap-l> Ah, cool
<snap-l> PostgreSQL: Everything is possible
<rick_h_> except what I want to do :P
<snap-l> MySQL: Everything is possible (with a different engine)
<Wolfger> MS-SQL?
<jrwren> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/06/interview-with-barton-george-from-dell-cloud/   HOT
<jrwren> nothing is possible.
<jrwren> ^^ MSSQL
<Blazeix> dude, with MSSQL you can directly query excel files! what more would you need?
<jrwren> paged queries.
<Blazeix> excel has sheets. Done.
<jrwren> i don't even know what taht means.
<Blazeix> I know. I'm not seriously recommending using excel files.
<Wolfger> yes he is
<snap-l> Well, that was fun
<snap-l> gnome-settings-daemon got to about 809G of virtual memory used.
<Wolfger> \o/
<greg-g> well, it is running now, lets see if it does the right thing... (it takes a good long time to run)
<brousch> snap-l: nice music clip. did you make it?
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> using LMMS
<brousch> that thump right at the end is what i was thinking, but couldn't figure out how to do it
<snap-l> It's bassdrum_acoustic_1, iirc
<brousch> i only have the mbp today, so i was using garageband
<brousch> snap-l: would you license that for my use?
<snap-l> Sure thing
<snap-l> BY-SA
<greg-g> good thing the channel is logged, now we have proof :)
<brousch> how should i acknowledge you?
<snap-l> Craig Maloney
<brousch> I mean, you want a link or something?
<snap-l> Yeah, that would work
<snap-l> Link to http://decafbad.net
<snap-l> The bassline comes from LMMS
<snap-l> techno_bass02.ogg
<brousch> Do I have to note that?
<brousch> wow, ogg is a pita on osx
<snap-l> I don't believe so
<snap-l> Do you need it in another format?
<snap-l> I have the wav file, and can make flac or mp3
<brousch> wav is probably best
<snap-l> one sec.
<brousch> i love imovia, but if the files are not blessed by jobs they are a pita
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/yzy/
<brousch> thanks
<snap-l> np
<brousch> snap-l: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/CoNGA-WM%20-%20Herding%20Geeks%20Intro.mov
<brousch> Boring, I know, but I need it later today ;)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Needs a shattering effect at the "boom". ;)
<brousch> hm, i'm not sure if i should do it there or when the full videos are assembled
<brousch> weak. imovie has no shatter effect
<snap-l> Man, that's lame
<snap-l> how can they not have the most overused vieo effect of all time?
<snap-l> outside of the racecar swoosh
<snap-l> fade
<brousch> i found a decent circle in/out thing
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/CoNGA-WM%20-%20Herding%20Geeks%20Intro.mov
<snap-l> brousch: That is awesome
<brousch> i won't call it awesome, but it's good enough
<brousch> the music is awesome ;)
<snap-l> brousch: *blush*
<jrwren> ya know what I'm happy about??? i finally got an iphone compat ffmpeg cmd
<snap-l> yay?
<brousch> jrwren: was it really hard?
<brousch> seems like it'd be easy
<jrwren> iphone is insanely picky about h264 used to encode.
<snap-l> brousch: You would think that
<jrwren> and googling around usually gives ffmpeg options that don't work with what ships in current ubuntu
<snap-l> Embedded devices and video are really shit-tastic
<jrwren> and then when i did get something that would actually encode... it wouldn't playback on device.
<jrwren> i'm OK with it being picky, because I still get great bat life and nice hardware accel
<snap-l> I know my Sansa uses some video codec that you can only use via Wine
<jrwren> yuk.
<snap-l> Yeah, it's extremely strange.
<brousch> h264 can be tricky in ffmpeg
<brousch> i usually resort to avidemux for that
<snap-l> Yay, someone is returning something that was a pain in the ass to ship in the first place to me
<snap-l> and I get to give them their money back.
<snap-l> Go me!
<krondor> wow so the blackberry db phonenumber field (the phone number of a phone in the system) does not validate input for valid phone numbers... wtf
<snap-l> It's a blackberry. Why would it? :)
<snap-l> likely punted because there's so many different formats.
<krondor> I was like, oh this script will be easy... now I'm like yea so someone really thought it was a good idea to put in 5.. blackberry phone number is 5.
<krondor> or maybe that's a genius way not to get calls from work
<lotia> greetings all.
<lotia> wondering if there is a secret do-upgrade-release switch/argument to upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 at present.
<lotia> trying to get to 10.04.02 LTS
<snap-l> Anyone know how to get ffmpeg to create AMR or m4v files?
<snap-l> apparently the rest of the internet is hell-bent on getting files out of these dumb formats.
<snap-l> lotia: Patience, or a reload are the key to 10.04
<lotia> snap-l: issue is that do-release-uprgrade insists on going to lucie
<lotia> lucid i mean
<snap-l> lucid == 10.04
<snap-l> maverick = 10.10
<snap-l> natty = 11.04
<lotia> correct, i need to go to 9.10 in between even if it is EOL'ed
<rick_h_> sorry, if it's EOL'd the repos are gone and it can't calculate upgrade paths/etc as far as I know
<snap-l> Yes, that is correct.
<snap-l> Oh, that sucks
<rick_h_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<rick_h_> can see if anything useful in there
<snap-l> Man, too many Jazz musicians lost to drugs.
<rick_h_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades/Jaunty maybe
<snap-l> lotia: Barring that, you may just want to bite the bullet and reinstall
<lotia> thanks folks
<greg-g> sometimes this python work is just fun :)
<greg-g> oh, heya lotia !
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome!
<rick_h_> always glad to see the python happy folks
<rick_h_> greg-g: you should hit up pyohio with us :)
<rick_h_> http://pyohio.org/
<rick_h_> brousch1: and I will be talking
<rick_h_> and we'll be doing a bookie sprint
<greg-g> I'm no where near python-conference ready :) I just farting around with overly verbose stuff to get some work done (workflow management stuff)
<rick_h_> it's small, local, all good stuff
<rick_h_> learn a trick/two
<rick_h_> free conference
<greg-g> I mean, this one script is ~300 lines, but about 2/3 of that is repetitious and could probably be axed if I was better :)
<rick_h_> pastebin! greg-g code review time!
<greg-g> no!
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g is fragile
<snap-l> greg-g: pyohio is the best for just farting around with Python
<greg-g> hmmmm
<rick_h_> lol
 * rick_h_ ponders a lot of lines that contain 'gentle' in them
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I know it's not PEP compliant, but: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/343/
<greg-g> also, it does what it is supposed to do
<greg-g> so, :P
<rick_h_> wow
<greg-g> :(
<_stink_> i should say that this is commented about 500x better than my stuff
<rick_h_> no, just a lot to read/figure out. MasterNotes1,2,3,4,5,6Col and such
<greg-g> oh yeah, good luck figuring it out without me skyping you
<jrwren> lotia: did you get it to work? I think I did that before.
<greg-g> basically, I'm taking two spreadsheets, comparing one of the rows between them, if they match, the whole row goes to Master, if not, it goes to Mismatch (for futher review)
<greg-g> er, comparing one of the columns in a row
<jrwren> comments?
<jrwren> wtf are commends?
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/344/ just one part to think about
<rick_h_> vs doing the looping through the sheet each time
<_stink_> greg-g: i've written a bunch of stuff w/ xlrd/xlwt.  i've settled on using a list to just grab column headers (something like [cell.value for cell in sheet.row(0)] for python 2.6), then use .index() on that list to get index numbers later
<rick_h_> find it once, store it, use it
<_stink_> instead of storing ints for column meanings manually
<_stink_> fwiw
<rick_h_> http://blog.okfn.org/2011/05/26/expert-python-javascript-coders-wanted/ hmmm, might be cool
<greg-g> rick_h_: hmmm, /me nods
<rick_h_> greg-g: on the code pasted?
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> save a few loop cycles/function calls
<rick_h_> cool though, thanks for sharing :)
<greg-g> _stink_: and actually rick_h_ I think later I'll need you two to explain just a tad more on those thoughts, but its my quitting time!
<_stink_> lucky you!
 * rick_h_ sounds the bell
<greg-g> rick_h_: it was hard sharing that, so thanks for the gentleness ;)
<greg-g> (watch, as soon as I leave he's going to say "OMG! Did you *see* that code?!")
<rick_h_> hah, no no no, trust me.
<rick_h_> as long as you're not in NC you're safe
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> alright, laters all
<jrwren> that is beautiful code.
<jrwren> i read it.
<jrwren> it made me want to write python.
<greg-g> jrwren: you lie
<jrwren> why would I lie?
<greg-g> jrwren: because it isn't beautiful :)
<greg-g> does anyone else use Banshee to sync music/podcasts with a PMP?
<greg-g> Banshee routinely locks up when trying to communicate with my iAudio7
<jrwren> ok.. this is a dumb question... but is there a way to ask shell to start a command in a different PWD?
<jrwren> e.g.... I'd like to ./start my app, but tell it to do the exec with CWD=/elsewehre
<jrwren> so that I don't have to pushd /elsewehre; $OLDWD/start
<snap-l> cd $/elsewhere
<snap-l> Write a wrapper script
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-14
<rick_h_> snap-l jcastro so you guys all set for tomorrow ride wise?
<rick_h_> don't need me to run over?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Nah, I'm cool
<snap-l> JoDee isn't going to class tomorrow, so I have a cara
<snap-l> and jcastro is getting a ride from me
<rick_h_> ok, cool
<jjesse> hey kdis :)
<jjesse> kids :)
<snap-l> Thanks for checking, though
<greg-g> jjesse: heya there!
<jjesse> whats up greg-g
<greg-g> not much, just working on my slides for tomorrow night's MUG meeting
<jjesse> cool
<jjesse> am i still online?
<greg-g> appear to be
<greg-g> not anymore
<snap-l> jjessse: You are now offline. ;)
<greg-g> hey, everyone who is going should say so here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/974/detail/   :)
<greg-g> smoser: widox Blazeix _stink_ jcastro Wolfger ^^
<jcastro> ON IT
<jcastro> snap-l: good news craig bologna
<jcastro> snap-l: I have a car, I can drive tomorrow if you want
<slestak_netbook> hola guys.  got a tip there was a pretty avid pylons user lurking
<slestak_netbook> been beating my head against the wall with a nosetest for an http post
<rick_h_> heh, possibly
<rick_h_> what's up?
<brousch1> rick_h_ is the bizomb
<slestak_netbook> helping out w rhodecode, a foss hgweb replacement
<slestak_netbook> quashing a bug in the ldap auth module
<slestak_netbook> while i was there, thought i would fill in some unittest stubs
<slestak_netbook> i am not a webdev, but i am trying to pitch in
<rick_h_> gotcha
<slestak_netbook> this is pylons 1.0, using webhelpers forms
<slestak_netbook> sec, cat
<slestak_netbook> im getting an http 200 when i call self.app.post
<slestak_netbook> ive checked routes and controller mapping pretty closely
<rick_h_> ok, and you're expecting a 302 or something?
<slestak_netbook> that is a redirect?
<rick_h_> yea
<slestak_netbook> im expecting the db to be updated,. but my dict of formdata is not being commited to the spqlite db
<slestak_netbook> using sa
<rick_h_> so things to check, if they're doing a redirect make sure you're getting the 302
<rick_h_> if not, make sure they're not checking for a submit button or something in the POST values
<slestak_netbook> i know im getting a 200
<rick_h_> and you're note actually triggering the post
<rick_h_> right, but are they redirecting?
<slestak_netbook> lemme see
<rick_h_> most forms do, so might be a sign there's something missing in the step
<slestak_netbook>  https://bitbucket.org/slestak/rhodecode
<rick_h_> k, but where am I looking ?
<slestak_netbook> im looking, i didint know if you wanted it
<slestak_netbook> yes, they are redirecting in the controller to ldap_home
<rick_h_> file/line number?
<rick_h_> controllers/?
<slestak_netbook> https://bitbucket.org/https://bitbucket.org/slestak/rhodecode/src/3aa8ac731ad8/rhodecode/controllers/admin/ldap_settings.pyslestak/rhodecode/src/3aa8ac731ad8/rhodecode/controllers/admin/ldap_settings.py
<slestak_netbook> that doesnt look right
<slestak_netbook> admin/ldap_settings
<slestak_netbook> im sry, i need to put kgardner to bed.  shes awaiting with book in hand
<rick_h_> k
<rick_h_> for when you get back:
<rick_h_> from looking at this I'd say that you're getting an error of one sort of another
<rick_h_> all of them are set to 'flash' so you should see them in the html of the response
<rick_h_> so I'd log.debug(str(response) form your untit test
<rick_h_> and see what's coming back at you
<slestak_netbook> you can use the logger in nosetests too?  wasnt sure abt that
<rick_h_> yea, just make sure to tell it to output log info
<slestak_netbook> yeah, with -s
<slestak_netbook> back in a bit
<rick_h_>  nosetests --with-id -v -s -x --with-pylons test_psql.ini qmail_app/tests
<rick_h_> is my usual nosetest command
<snap-l> jcastro: I have a car as well
<snap-l> I can still pick you up if you want
<jcastro> ok
<slestak_netbook> gonna add thaqt debug
<rick_h_> slestak_netbook: you following what I mean?
<slestak_netbook> i did some looking around github and bb and not a lot of projects fill in their testing
<slestak_netbook> yeah, i think so.
<rick_h_> heh, yea :(
<rick_h_> but we all love people that add to testing :)
<slestak_netbook> i see some tests that are setting the status in the post call
<rick_h_> they do status=302?
<slestak_netbook> https://bitbucket.org/russellballestrini/pylowiki/src/ab49079b3da4/pylowiki/tests/functional/test_login.py
<slestak_netbook> yes
<rick_h_> yea, that'll blow up if anytrhing but a 302 comes back
<slestak_netbook> he doesnt have any asserts in there so i think its a wip
<rick_h_> it's an auto assert
<rick_h_> bonus for calling the request
<rick_h_> I use that all the time
<rick_h_> http://pythonpaste.org/webtest/#what-is-tested-by-default
<rick_h_> man, this node.js thing is just too fast. Poor server goes boom
<slestak_netbook> i need to find the hadle to log.  not available in my test harness as log.debug
<rick_h_> you can also just print it
<rick_h_> have to find the output
<slestak_netbook> you find pylons old schoolers resistant to port to pyramid?
<rick_h_> oh, log only shows with a failing test
<rick_h_> so make sure you assert False
<rick_h_> I'm not sure, work people are "ugh, learning another system"
<rick_h_> but it's not like this is java
<rick_h_> I don't know how adoption overall is going
<slestak_netbook> this fellow i am helping i think has no desire to port
<slestak_netbook> i think its trying to make me log in again
<rick_h_> k, that might be
<rick_h_> so you need to send auth or go through the login page first
<slestak_netbook> i have a helper to login, i think i am just looking at the login link in the response
<rick_h_> ah, ok
<slestak_netbook> im looking at the ldap settings form
<slestak_netbook> i can see the listboxes
<rick_h_> k, look for a div/something with "flash"
<slestak_netbook> i see that, there is no message to flash
<slestak_netbook> the post was not valid, should not have the 200, so i know sth fouled up
<slestak_netbook> thx for the assist.  im going to look at this a bit more and get some sleep
<rick_h_> k, let me know if you find it
<slestak_netbook> rick_h_: got it
<slestak_netbook> i wasnt comleting enough of my form toget past validation
<slestak_netbook> once i completely filled in param, it worked
<brousch> rick_h_: did you sort our slestak last night?
<brousch> sort out
<greg-g> brousch: it looks like from the scroll back that rick_h_ helped and then slestak got it working in the end
<brousch> cool
<brousch> had some more pain trying to use unity last night
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, think he got it
<rick_h_> and fun on the unity pain
<brousch> aptana pydev (eclipse) requires sun-java6. there is no sun-java6 in ubuntu any more. there's a ppa, but apparently it doesn't have 64 bit sun-java6. so it seemed to work with open-jdk, except only the Window menu shows up
<rick_h_> my boss tried to install/get it and gets a blank screen on startup
<rick_h_> he's a bit cranky
<rick_h_> hah, so the solution is to not use aptana, come home to vim! :)
<brousch> i had blank screens in 2 cases: nvidia-96 drivers (still not available) and a monitor that's not strictly supported
<rick_h_> we haven't gotten you switched yet? Did you watch my screencasts?
<brousch> i need eclipse for android if nothing else
<brousch> i am memorizing vim shortcuts at the rate of 1/month ;)
<rick_h_> move up to 1/wk
<rick_h_> that's the trick
<rick_h_> after a while you get your set
<rick_h_> I find different people have slightly different sets
<brousch> i learn one when something is annoying to do, like delete a very long line
<brousch> or go to the bottom of a file
<rick_h_> good ones I use a ton
<rick_h_> dtX is another good know to have on hand
<brousch> death trap?
<rick_h_> dt[somechar]
<rick_h_> delete up until you hit this character
<greg-g> huh, neat
<brousch> ah, nice
<rick_h_> df[char] will include that character i the deletion
<rick_h_> I tend to use dt though, have to always think about the f version
<rick_h_> anyway, very useful in changeing a value in a csv, email addresses, things with stop characters like @,/ and such
<brousch> how would i go the middle part of a long line?
<brousch> gt?
<rick_h_> f[somechar]
<rick_h_> I tend to use that
<rick_h_> pick a character in the middle and aim for it
<rick_h_> ; will repeat the last f command
<rick_h_> so in a csv, I might do f, and then hit ;;; until I get to the right field
<brousch> is that a colon or semi-colon? my coffee-deprived eyes cannot tell
<rick_h_> semi
<rick_h_> don't like to have to use modifier keys, needs more keystrokes
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> and i'm a bad typist
<snap-l> brousch: What's the link to your keyboard shotcut guide for UNity?
<brousch> it was in one of jcastro's askubuntu threads
<snap-l> Right, but you coallated it.
<brousch> http://clusterbleep.net/files/Ubuntu_11.04_Unity_Cheat_Sheet.pdf
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<brousch> np
<brousch> the askubuntu threads are in the footer of that
<brousch> i like the desktop wallpaper version someone made
<brousch> i can switch to an empty workspace and check it quickly
<snap-l> Got a link to that as well? :)
 * snap-l is cribbing resources together. ;P)
<rick_h_> I smell MUG mtf reuse
<rick_h_> /mtf/mtg
<snap-l> *whistles*
<snap-l> I'm totally giving Ben credit
<brousch> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts
<rick_h_> it's all good, it's in the loco
<snap-l> rick_h_: exactly. :)
<brousch> jcastro compiled the commands. these are just different versions of his work
<brousch> so make sure you give him credit ;)
<snap-l> He'll be there, so he can take credit if he wants. ;)
<Wolfger> dt should be easy to remember... "delete to". But that makes me want to think of df as "delete from", and it sounds like that's not what it does. :\
<rick_h_> yea, df doesn't click with me like dt does
<_stink_> i just think 'delete find'
<_stink_> i use them about the same amount
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it's kind of amazing how personal vim is
<_stink_> but it's funny how different folks settle into different uses
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> that
<rick_h_> there's a common base, but people do settle into their own uses
<brousch> on the bright side, i do have my 12 wokspaces on unity now
<brousch> and my system monitor
<brousch> hm, i can boot into classic mode to see if the aptana menu issue is due to unity or openjdk
<greg-g> 12?!
<greg-g> though, I guess I do also, since I have 6 workspaces, but 2 monitors
<brousch> i rarely use more than 6, but once in a while i use 10
<rick_h_> I like having the limits. Once in a while I run out of space
<rick_h_> but usually it's a sign to put something down/away
<rick_h_> "I'll just leave this open and jump back to it in a min...well it's really going to be a while"
<brousch> yeah, mine fill up with collections of chrome tabs for a specific meeting
<jcastro> snap-l: just google for "power user guide unity"
<rick_h_> ok, ppa talk written. Ugh, feels short
<brousch> speak slowly
<rick_h_> hah, well I have one slide that's "Story Time"
<rick_h_> so will have to really go on during taht
<brousch> are mug meetings recorded?
 * rick_h_ skips that one
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I found that.
<snap-l> jcastro: Just wanted to illuminate the hard work of Mr. West-side, brousch
<snap-l> brousch: depends
<jcastro> WEST SIDE!
<jcastro> I like Grand Rapids, I would live there
<snap-l> gib tries to record them / broadcast them
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I like GR
<snap-l> save for the conservatives. ;)
<brousch> apparently we have jobs here, too
<snap-l> and American Pie
<snap-l> That must be a current release over there.
<snap-l> You're gonna love Kiss.
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> we just started playing this new band on the radio, Rush i think it's called :P
<brousch> i suspect it's oriented to frat boys and sorority girls
<snap-l> I don't know if you've been at a Rush concert, but it is decidedly not sorority girls who attend.
<snap-l> There's two types of women at Rush concerts: True fans, and "my SO dragged me here"
<snap-l> The band has actually asked folks that if they're going to drag their non-Rush-loving partners to the show, to please not sit in the front row
<brousch> so, old women and old wives?
<snap-l> nothing in the world is more of a downer during a show than a cross-armed, stern looking female in the front row
<brousch> it seems silly to drag someone to an expensive concert if they don't want to go
<snap-l> brousch: I wouldn't go there if I were you.
<snap-l> JoDee's a huge Rush fan too. :)
<snap-l> This system that I'm testing requires me to use a different e-mail address (can't share e-mail addresses between accounts)
<snap-l> I have 28 lines in my /etc/postfix/virtual file.
<rick_h_> man, I could of sworn there was a pure python message queue thing when I checked out queues a while ago
<rick_h_> can't find it for the life of me now
<brousch> pymq?
<rick_h_> no, looks like I'm thinking of beanstalkd which isn't python, just works with it
<rick_h_> don't see anything pure python/memory
<rick_h_> pymq requires mysql
<rick_h_> hmm, but it is in the ubuntu repo so maybe I'll try it out again
<rick_h_> oh yummy, node.js client
<jrwren> ya'll talk too much :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Shush
<Wolfger> I believe the phrase you are looking for is "cork it, jrwren"
<jrwren> *gasp*
<jcastro> SNAP-L
<jcastro> http://outloud.fm/Metalheads
<jcastro> JOIN ME
<jcastro> n0p: you too
<snap-l> I'm sorry, but they only have sign-up via twitter or Facebook
<snap-l> and I'm not giving my twitter creds to any application
<snap-l> Thanks, though. :)
<brousch> freetard!
<snap-l> Pragmatic
<Wolfger> secure
<snap-l> I don't want some application to suddenly spam people about some service I signed up for 2 yars ago
<snap-l> yars = pirate years.
<brousch> https://twitter.com/settings/applications
<brousch> revoke it
<snap-l> brousch: Honestly, sites that only accept twitter / facebook, and don't support openID need to suck it
<brousch> i have heard those options pitched to startups as the best way to get people to signup
<snap-l> If best way you mean the way to keep curmudgeons out, then yes, it's the best way.
<Wolfger> brousch: As a startup, you are a fool not to have those options.... but don't make those your only options. That's just lazy.
<snap-l> Also, it's stupid to build your platform off another company
<brousch> well you're handing off auth to FB and twitter so you don't have to have your own solution
<snap-l> building it off of two should be a sign to your handlers that you might hurt yourself.
<jrwren> snap-l: exactly!  no FB or Twitter auth.
<jrwren> if you don't accept more auth, then fuk u, i ain't using yoru service
<brousch> your daily wtf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls
<brousch> :( http://sourceforge.net/
<snap-l> brousch: What about it, other than it's taking a while to load?
<_stink_> i got a placeholder saying stuff is slow, and didn't get the front page
<snap-l> Huh... I got the front page.
<brousch> i got a melting anvil
<_stink_> hah, didn't even notice what that was
<jcastro> snap-l: where are you? we need your input
<jcastro> http://outloud.fm/Metalheads#
<brousch> that made me laugh outloud
<snap-l> jcastro: Have you read the above? :)
<jcastro> ugh
<snap-l> Seriously, not signing into a service that requires twitter or facebook to join
<jcastro> you suck
<snap-l> jcastro: Yes, yes I do
<jcastro> but yeah, that does suck
<snap-l> Anyone know of any location for small m4v files?
<snap-l> I need something less than 600K
<brousch> location?
<snap-l> Place where one might find said files.
<snap-l> I'm trying archive.org, but finding something that granular is proving difficult.
<brousch> i can easily make some
<brousch> you want like a 10 second clip at full res, or a downsized longer clip?
<snap-l> Something that will show up on an iPhone, 10 seconds is fine
<snap-l> and something that I can distribute. ;)
<jcastro> how is the internet at the new mug place?
<snap-l> jcastro: Spotty
<snap-l> some times it's fine, and othertimes it's non-existent
<snap-l> andif Gib is broadcasting, it turns to shit.
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> Big Blue Button is neat, but it totally blue-balls the internet.
<brousch> geez, even that 8 second intro from yesterday is 3MB
<jrwren> snap-l: I can make you a small 600k m4v if you like
<snap-l> The more the merrier
<jrwren> what bitrate would you like?
<snap-l> Whatever an iPhone will accept
<jrwren> snap-l: if you just want to try a stream: http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/sp.mp4 is what I was experimenting with for iphone. but its a reasonably large file.
<jrwren> iphone will accept pretty much any bitrate.
<snap-l> Has to be under 600K, unfortunately
<brousch> what video is under 600k?
<brousch> must be 5 frames
<snap-l> brousch: really shitty videos
<jrwren> why under 600k?
<snap-l> It's a size requirement for the system I'm testing
<snap-l> Whichis fine for animated gif files, and even some mp3 files
<snap-l> but for video, it's a real PITA
<snap-l> tried using ffmpeg, but I don't think it has a m4v encoder.
<jrwren> m4v is just a container ya know.
<jrwren> and signifies that it is probably iphone compat
<jrwren>  http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/sp600.m4v
<brousch> you can just rename a .mp4 to m4v
<snap-l> brousch: Are they  equivalent
<jrwren> its just a file ext.
<jrwren> its meaningless.
<snap-l> jrwren: hah. :)
<jrwren> its true.
<snap-l> (just downloaded what you encoded)
<jrwren> here... let me change it to mpg.
<jrwren> it will work.
<jrwren> snap-l: oh... HA! :)
<jrwren> snap-l: yeah, I was surprised about what I got for 600k :)
<snap-l> Actually, it's 615K
<jrwren> sorry.
<snap-l> np
<jrwren> i told it 600000
<snap-l> Actually, let me try something
<jrwren> ffmpeg must not count the header.
<jrwren> you want to smaller?
<snap-l> Just created a blender animation
<jrwren> or you can do it yourself with this
<jrwren> ffmpeg -i input.avi -acodec aac -ab 128k -vcodec mpeg4 -b 800k -mbd 2 -flags +mv4+aic -trellis 1 -cmp 2  -subcmp 2 -s 320x180 -metadata title=X -strict experimental -threads 2 -fs 600000 output.m4v
<jrwren> remove the -fs 600000 to do the whoel file.
<snap-l> I have a mp4 file that is 15K
<jrwren> change the -fs 600000 to -fs 590000 to get less than 600k
<snap-l> might just rename it to m4v and see what happens
<snap-l> since it appears m4v is just Apple's proprietary extensions for mp4
<snap-l> (which would figure)
<snap-l> Thank you, though. I really appreciate it!
<brousch> jrwren: nice ffmpeg command
<brousch> hm, does that make h264 or mpeg4?
<brousch> i should say, does it make mpeg4 part 2 or mpeg4 part 10 (h264) video?
<brousch> jrwren: i think your command makes mpeg4 part 2 video. you need the libx264 vcodec for h264
<brousch> check out http://h264.code-shop.com/trac/wiki/Encoding#Ffmpegx264profileBaselinelevel3.0iPhone
<snap-l> Oh, very nice.
<snap-l> brousch: I will eat your children.
<snap-l> "Will it be televised?"
<brousch> i wanted the twitters to know about it
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> and gave you the opportunity to post a link to the video stream (if it exists)
<snap-l> Hopefully it will, on someone's 4G myfi
<snap-l> sadly, it'll likely cream the bandwidth of the ESD
<brousch> dangit
<snap-l> BTW: http://openmetalcast.com/2011/06/14/open-metalcast-episode-23-fighting-narwhals/
<brousch> what weapon do you use to fight a narwhal?
<snap-l> Anger
<brousch> despite all your rage, you're still just a narwhal in a tank
<jrwren> brousch: shit, you are right... but iphone plays it :)
<jrwren> brousch: but TY so much... I can probably do much better and have less Xfer if I move to h264
<brousch> i use mpeg4 as my "works everywhre" codec
<jrwren> why not h264?
<brousch> editing h264 drives some editor bonkers
<brousch> at least last time i tried them (openshot, kdenlive, pitivi, cinelerra, etc)
<brousch> they all work well with mpeg4 part 2
<jrwren> brousch: what is crazy is that x264 you linked actually encodes faster than the mpeg4p2 that i was using.
<jrwren> oh wait, no. just started out faster.
<jrwren> oh EDITORS.
<jrwren> but if i only care about playback, then h264 is great.
<brousch> right
<brousch> and i think editing has improved in the last year
<brousch> i think that encoder is a two pass, so it does a quick pass then a slower one
<jrwren> all with 1 ffmpeg command?
<jrwren> usually you have to -pass 1 and -pass 2
<jrwren> but I'm more of a mencoder guy.
<jrwren> this move to ffmpeg is new to me.
<brousch> you're right, i don't see 2 passes there
<brousch> i used to use encoder, but i had too many instances of audio getting out of sync with the video
<brousch> mencoder
<jrwren> i never had that
<jrwren> i just never found a good iphone compat h264 cmd line
<snap-l> And good evening
<snap-l> er, afternoon
<snap-l> I have used a lorem generator today
<snap-l> I feel accomplished.
<jrwren> the one built into MSWORD?
<snap-l> No, a website
<snap-l> But that's interesting
<jrwren> brousch: actually, the h264 is about 2fps faster than mpeg4v2 that i was using.
<jrwren> 16 v 14fps.
<jrwren> E8500 used to be fast, LOL
<brousch> the playback is faster or the encoding?
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: were you able to find a m4v file that met your needs?
<rick_h_> man, so close, but postgresql still hates me today
<brousch> see, it's not just mysql
<rick_h_> heh, ah true
<brousch> you should switch to mongo!
<rick_h_> but at least I'm trying to do something you can't do in mysql
<rick_h_> create custom group aggregate functions without writing C
<brousch> ug, so if i'm writing docs in rst, should i add line breaks at 80 characters?
<brousch> pita to chage a word in the middle of a paragraph
<rick_h_> gq
<brousch> how do i specify what is a paragraph?
<rick_h_> I just v to highlight the line/next
<rick_h_> you can do paragraphs with { or something I think
<brousch> hm, i'll give this a try
<rick_h_> http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2004/programme/paper-SMyers/Linux_2004_slides/vim_tips/#slide15
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I was looking, and yes, i think I found something that worked.
<snap-l> Thanks!
<devinheitmueller> np
<devinheitmueller> If you've got copyright/redistribution issue, let me know and I can record some colorbars for you in an ipod compatible format.
<snap-l> Actually, if you would send me that, that would be great
<devinheitmueller> I can do it after the MUG meeting tonight.
<snap-l> the file i sent to the ipod came across as unknown when sent via MMS
<snap-l> Awesome. Thanks!
<devinheitmueller> You want that in NTSC?  or PAL?
<devinheitmueller> Also, what resolution do you want?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> NTSC, suitable for an iPhone
<snap-l> (I have NFC what res an iphone handles)
<devinheitmueller> ok
<brousch> ah, it's one of those things i have to type really fast to make work right
<brousch> rick_h_: nice, gqap seems to do what i need
<jrwren> i encode 320x180 for iphone
<brousch> i can tell you what imovie spits out for its "iphone" format
 * snap-l wishes he had a mac to make this much easier
<brousch> 480x270, h264, aac, bitrate 894
 * rick_h_ winds up to smack snap-l 
<rick_h_> where's the trout when you need one
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, pshaw
<devinheitmueller> You should be able to do 640x480 on the iphone.
<snap-l> Hell, with the retina display, I thikn you could do full HD.
<devinheitmueller> Handbrake has all the presets for the various devices.  Will reboot into my mac.  one minute...
<snap-l> it would just be REAALLLLLYYYY TINY
<brousch> here's your target according to imovie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-14%20at%203.14.25%20PM.png
<brousch> yeah, the 270 probably depends on the original file's aspect ratio
<devinheitmueller> Ok, so iphone is indeed 480x272
<devinheitmueller> ipod is 320x176
<snap-l> interesting
<devinheitmueller> bitrate varies by device.
<devinheitmueller> ipod=700, iphone/ipod touch=960, iphone 4 and ipad = 2500
<brousch> devinheitmueller: are you getting this from a web page?
<devinheitmueller> I'm just clicking through the handbrake presets.
<brousch> because that's usefull info you're spouting ;)
<devinheitmueller> I cannot cite them as "authoritative" as it's possible that the HandBrake people didn't follow the Apple specs.  But it's "reliable enough".
<brousch> reliable is better than authoritative
<brousch> aka theoretical
<devinheitmueller> Don't I know it.  :-)
<devinheitmueller> Also, I can cheat.  I built a hardware product which encodes arbitrary video to iPod format in realtime.
<devinheitmueller> so, for example, to prep snap-l's colorbars video, I just have to plug my signal generator into the s-video port of the device, and out comes a file suitable for the iPod/iPad.
<snap-l> Oh, nice.
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> that definitely sounds like cheating
<devinheitmueller> Yup.
<devinheitmueller> Of course in fairness, I had to make the product work in the first place, in which time I probably could have transcoded a few thousand videos via handbrake.  ;-)
<devinheitmueller> http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_broadway.html
<snap-l> broadway the not-so-hard way.
<brousch> does it work on linux?
<snap-l> It's an embedded device
<devinheitmueller> it's a network enabled product.  It doesn't connect directly to a PC.
<devinheitmueller> If you click on the gallery, you will see a picture that shows a network diagram.
<Milyardo> not sure if trolling, or serious
<devinheitmueller> Milyardo: pardon?
<Milyardo> @brousch
<devinheitmueller> It *should* work with Linux, but it's not really tested.
<devinheitmueller> In theory, it should even work with MythTV (as it implements the HD-HomeRun network protocol)
<devinheitmueller> probably one of the biggest challenges under Linux is that it delivers H.264 video, and many Linux browsers don't support it.  That said, I developed large portions of it from my Linux desktop, using VLC for the actual playback.
<greg-g> home time, then travel to MUG time
<rick_h_> woot
<brousch> we were just playing with wolfram alpha. it s sriously cool http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%284%2F3+*+%28a%2Bb%29%29+%3D+%28a%2B3b%29
<jrwren> brousch: is that imovie 894 bitrate a&v or just video + 128audio or what?
<brousch> jrwren: that was audio and video, codecs chosen by imovie for their iphone export preset
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> do you know how they balance the a/v?  is it 798video 96 audio? or other?
<brousch> so according to devinheitmueller's earlier comment, the 894 fits just under the 960 max bitrate for iphone
<brousch> jrwren: i think it's 128bit audio
<devinheitmueller> Which format do you want to know?
<devinheitmueller> ipod is 700/160
<jrwren> i'm trying a 96bit aac and 400bit video.  i want to see if I notice the difference
<devinheitmueller> iphone is 960/128
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: according to whom?
<devinheitmueller> again, handbrake
<devinheitmueller> These are defaults.  audio bitrates tend to be configurable.
<brousch> devinheitmueller: do you know of a source for info like that for android devices?
<devinheitmueller> brousch: no, the presets in handbrake are just for Apple products.
<devinheitmueller> There can be much more variance in Android supported formats, since there are many different processors used in those devices.
<devinheitmueller> (each with different max bitrates)
<brousch> right
<devinheitmueller> That said, it's entirely possible that Google publishes such a guide with best practices - I do not know.
<brousch> ok
<devinheitmueller> Well, well.  Look what a google search for "android audio video bitrates" comes back with as its first hit....
<devinheitmueller> http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/media-formats.html
<devinheitmueller> recommendations at the bottom of the page.
<jrwren> i checked out handbrake, but I did not see any video bitrates specified
<jrwren> https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/BuiltInPresets#iphone    <-- no video bitrate that I can find.
<jrwren> but that is still just handbrakes defaults... which is great to use as a reference.
<jrwren> so far I'm very happy with my 400/96 encode.
<jrwren> I never dreamed of the day I'd have enough outgoing bandwidth to stream thiskind of thing, but ty comcast.
<devinheitmueller> If you run the GUI, you can click on the various modes and then see what their underlying settings translate to.
<devinheitmueller> (including bitrates)
<jrwren> right, but I do not thing the UI is telling the truth.
<jrwren> I guess I'm saying I trust the docs more than I trust the UI.
<jrwren> which is probably foolish.
<jrwren> you can ask the UI to show you the CLI, can't you. I'd trust that ;)
<jrwren> also, I don't know waht handbrake UI are you suing.
<jrwren> but mine does not show video bitrate for iphone.
<devinheitmueller> I haven't looked at the command line docs, but I bet "-X" is the video bitrate, and "-B" is the audio bitrate for each channel.
<jrwren> it shows "constant quality.
<jrwren> -B is audio, yes.
<jrwren> -X is NOT
<jrwren> you can handbrakeCLI --help 2>&1|less and find what -X does.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, I'm not in front of a Linux box, so no I cannot.  That said, I bet the bitrate is in there.
<jrwren> its not.
<jrwren> i am in front of both windows and linux and I checked :)
<jrwren> handbrake uses variable bitrate with a quality setting of 60% aka, -q 20
<jrwren> see the -q option of HandbrakeCLI
<brousch> jrwren: can you specify a profile to use? my guess is iphone targets the same profile as android, Baseline Profile
<brousch> doesn't look like it
<brousch> h264 really hurts me mind
<devinheitmueller> brousch: welcome to my world.  :-)
<brousch> oh, i waded around in it for a while a year or so ago
<brousch> now i just let avidemux do it for me
<brousch> this page seems very nformative https://sites.google.com/site/linuxencoding/x264-encoding-guide
<jrwren> i dont' know anything about android.
<jrwren> but I'd imagine it is just like iphone but supports more options :)
<brousch> well they both support baseline profile
<jrwren> weird use of mplayer instead of mencoder on that site.
<jrwren> i don't even know what "baseline profile" means
<brousch> which defines a bunch of constraints
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles
<devinheitmueller> that's really the challenge.  Typically those devices support a *subset* of the available profiles, and expect the content preparer to meet those expectations.
<jrwren> oh, well that one you linked for iphone is at least HiP I think.
<jrwren> i see 8x8 and 4x4 options.
<brousch> i'm gonna flee before my head asplodes
<jrwren> yeah, i don't really case about the details.
<jrwren> i just want low bitrate high quality on my phone :)
<jrwren> and I have that. HURRAY!
<rick_h_> Blazeix: dude
<greg-g> here we go!
<rick_h_> watch out...dude
<Blazeix> good luck!
<rick_h_> Blazeix: finally heard back from the js uuid libary guy
<rick_h_> he says he's not interested in adding v3 support
<Blazeix> yeah, not too surprised. I don't think any of his algorithms actually hashed user input.
<Blazeix> it was more of the 'random generator' kind
<rick_h_> right, well it's all the other uuid specs :(
<rick_h_> moved on, but figured I'd let you know since you went down that path
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-15
<snap-l> Hello there
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> found a work around for the Aptana Pydev issue. it basically disables the global menu thing before starting it up
<brousch> are you guys representin' yet?
<rick_h_> yea, jcastro and snap-l and greg-g went
<rick_h_> rocking the house :)
<greg-g> w00t!
<greg-g> Gib is recording it
<brousch> he will upload it somewhere afterwards?
<brousch> make sure you send the link out over the ubuntu-michigan mailing list ;)
<greg-g> I assume he is?
<greg-g> oh, definitely, and a blog post, and a tweet/dent, and a... uhhh, an IM?
<brousch> post it to the ubuntu michigan facebook page
<brousch> i think snap-l
<brousch> is the curator
<greg-g> oh, I forgot about that
<brousch> oooh, we could put it on diaspora!
<greg-g> https://joindiaspora.com/status_messages/289156
<rick_h_> You need to sign in or sign up before continuing.
<rick_h_> :(
<rick_h_> open I see :P
<greg-g> hehe, "privacy"
<snap-l> Gee, greg-g uses Diaspora.
<greg-g> rarely/barely
<snap-l> I just logged back in there.
<brousch> Hm, I'm starting to get into natty
<brousch> my problems on my big laptop are solved or worked around. the keyboard shortcuts are starting to grown on me
<brousch> now if only they would release nvidia-96 drivers i could be a happy boy
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, same here
<snap-l> still a few rough edges, but I'm liking it overall
<brousch> working well for my son on the eeepc too
<rick_h_> coolio
<jjesse> hrmm am i still here?
<brousch> jjesse: sort of
<jrwren> rick_h_: do you run your html through a validator.
<rick_h_> jrwren: nope
<rick_h_> I'm bad
 * rick_h_ loads up http://rick.bmark.us in the validator
<rick_h_> nice, caught me in some wrong doing
<brousch> hm, anyone know how i add a bash script to the launcher?
<slestak_netbook> rick_h_: did you see my late post w what the problem was?
<brousch> slestak_netbook: they're busy with a big ubuntu-themed linux meeting in detroit
<slestak_netbook> ahh
<slestak_netbook> how are you man
<brousch> excellent
<brousch> i'm using natty tonight
<slestak_netbook> im not going to make it tomorrow.  i am so broke till payday
<jrwren> rick_h_ is my barometer for sane web programming
<slestak_netbook> jrwren: im a web noob, so if its possible to do it wrong, i will stumble into it
<brousch> slestak_netbook: i can buy you a $2 coffee
<slestak_netbook> i'll try.  i kinda committed to take kids to kdl too so i maybe should make next one
<slestak_netbook> books due
<brousch> up to you
<brousch> is kdl open that late?
<slestak_netbook> hey, with virtualenvwrapper, isnt there a keybinding to cd into your project dir?
<slestak_netbook> good point
<slestak_netbook> if there is not, there should be
<brousch> i haven't used the wrapper
<slestak_netbook> the wrapper is nice, you can just say workon projname
<slestak_netbook> and it activates projname
<slestak_netbook> ahh, here it is  echo 'cd $VIRTUAL_ENV' >> $WORKON_HOME/postactivate
<slestak_netbook> dhellman rocks
<brousch> ug, found it. i had to create my own .desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications , drag it to the launcher, and then copy the icon to /usr/share/pixmaps/
<slestak_netbook> what were you trying to do?
<brousch> add an icon to launch a script from unity's launcher
<brousch> i need to start aptana from a bash script to work around menu issues, so i needed to add the script to the launcher instead of the regular aptana program
<brousch> bedtime
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yepyep
<brousch> have a mug hangover?
<rick_h_> yea, sleepy
<rick_h_> I'm old, staying up until midnight is bad for me
<greg-g> ditto
<rick_h_> and CHC tonight is a back to back later
<greg-g> going to be a tough thursday mornig for rick_h_
<rick_h_> yea, productivity will be dropping lol
<brousch> midnight? that's a good meeting!
<rick_h_> well, that's post meeting dinner + drive home + getting ready for bed
<brousch> i love the meetings where you stop talking for a minue, look at the clock, and it's 10pm
<Wolfger> heh
<Wolfger> now I'm glad I didn't go out. That's way past my bedtime
<Wolfger> around 8:30 I was really wishing I'd gone. :-p
<brousch> are you saying it wasn't worth 1 late night?
<rick_h_> naw it was good stuff, many jokes to be made, many questions/opinions to gather
<rick_h_> greg-g talking about his tour de greg was good stuff :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> dinner was good convo, definitely. And the presentations I think went well
<rick_h_> yea, I think we filled and showed some good stuff
<rick_h_> sounded like snap-l's unity stuff went over well
<rick_h_> definitly think it might be good for the locos to help 'demo'/hands on the unity changes
<greg-g> not a bad idea
<rick_h_> seems some people run away from that first hit of "what is this..."
<rick_h_> but once they get over it start to warm up...see snap-l himself
<rick_h_> snap-l: dude, you should screencast that stuff
<greg-g> !
<rick_h_> "Coping with Unity, session 1: the dock"
<greg-g> yes
<rick_h_> "session 2: wtf do you mean I have 'lenses'"?
<Wolfger> You mean, not everybody in the world hates Unity? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. That's not what the blogs all say....
<Wolfger> oh, I need session 2
<rick_h_> wake up snap-l! we're creating work for you
<rick_h_> lol
<Wolfger> the nerve of some people... sleeping through their work assignments.
<jcastro> snap-l: rick_h_ July 16
<Wolfger> Hey there, Mr Ubuntu-US-FL.... ;-)
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah, good to konw
<greg-g> ah, I was a week off
<Wolfger> ooh, it's a woot-off today
 * greg-g gets the woot off song in his head
<brousch> nearly all of my issues with unity have been worked around, fixed, or i've learned the unity-way of doing it
<snap-l> Hey, it's a compiz update.
<brousch> snap-l: have you seen the jono version of the free software song?
<brousch> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/15/metal-free-software-song-2-this-time-its-personal/
<snap-l> Just downloaded it
<snap-l> Haven't heard it yet.
<brousch> not bad
<brousch> good music, not my favorite vocals
<brousch> sounds too much like modern hetfield vocals
<snap-l> OK, I think I managed to goof up my system.
<snap-l> (logged in remotely via ssh)
<brousch> your nappy box?
<snap-l> so, will be rebooting. :)
<snap-l> Yeah, I stopped and restarted gdm
<snap-l> and now I can't log in. ;)
<snap-l> so, brb.
<snap-l> And we're back.
<jjesse> no we aren't
<rick_h_> man I had advertising
<rick_h_> that link jcastro is just evil
<snap-l> rick_h_: Where's this link?
 * snap-l really needs to stop subscribing to blabbermouths on twitter / identi.ca
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/egcLc
<snap-l> Ah, I see it now
<snap-l> Dude, this is what adblock was invented for
<rick_h_> yea, since going to chrome I've not gone back to adblock
<rick_h_> I kind of wanted to try to be a good netizen
<rick_h_> jcastro: so FF question, how are you guys handling the uptick in the FF release schedule?
<rick_h_> just going to skip releases of FF and going with whatever is out at time of release?
<rick_h_> bubble is here! http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/15/pandora-opens-at-20-per-share-with-a-market-cap-of-3-2-billion/
<rick_h_> key words "yet to make a profit"
<snap-l> shit shit shit shit shit: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTU3MA
<jcastro> rick_h_: everyone will go FF5 at the same time
<snap-l> Now we'll never get cool Twitter clients.
<jcastro> snap-l: heh, same thing I thought
<jcastro> rick_h_: and from then on we'll just follow the same FF release for everything, back to the LTSes too
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah cool that's what I was wondering
<rick_h_> if it'd get updated mid-cycle if FF releases
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> we actually started doing that with FF4
<rick_h_> seems that getting updates to old versions will start to get hard as they get 2-3-4 vversions ahead
<jcastro> but we upgrade to 4 only when MoCo kills 3.6
<jcastro> and they haven't quite yet.
<rick_h_> cool, that's what I like to hear (as a web dev)
<jcastro> but starting with 5 they're going to go more brutal like chrome
<snap-l> jcastro: I don't think they've quite figured out how to kill 3.6 yet.
<rick_h_> yea, I know 5 is coming in july
<jcastro> so like, we'll be as aggressive as they are.
<rick_h_> awesome!
<rick_h_> good to hear
<jcastro> snap-l: well they still support it
<snap-l> Right, that's what I'm saying
<jcastro> what they're changing is saying "nope, no more version -1 support"
<snap-l> since the 3.x series was pretty successful
<rick_h_> I don't know how
<rick_h_> even FF4 is painful here
<rick_h_> it must be the linux versions
<rick_h_> because people seem to love it and say it's all super fast
<rick_h_> but I've got a pretty bare FF4 that I just hate tring to use
<rick_h_> hangs, launches in forever, ugh
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/web-roundups/50-killer-chromebook-apps/
<rick_h_> more web living
<rick_h_> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/liglcienpnkhdajdfmnpbgmpjglonipe# seems nice
<rick_h_> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/edebbhkhcaafmolanelponjjanocpacd# is handy as well
<jcastro> ooh, looking
<jcastro> I find FF4 to be much better, but the launch time is still not as quick as chrome
<jcastro> oddly enough it's on android where FF is quite nice
<snap-l> Oh, I like the timer.
<rick_h_> yea, that's handy. Was doing some timer stuff when testing the node.js url processor to check urls/s
<rick_h_> and I like that it shows in the tab up top as well
<jrwren> jcastro: agreed.
<jrwren> I still prefer FF for some strange reason.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm still primarily a FF user
<snap-l> jcastro: I finally joined your little party.
<jcastro> yeah ROCK out
<snap-l> Too mellow. :)
<brousch> i use both now that google messed with their multiple account switching crap
<snap-l> ?
<brousch> i have google apps for work and gmail for home. it used to be easy to have each account open in a seperate chrome window
<brousch> recently google changed it so they both login the same way so only one works at a time
<brousch> so i open work in FF and gmail in chrome
<brousch> they have a half-assed switching thing, but that is stupid
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm not sure if I'm sharing tracks, or poisoning the well. ;)
<brousch> and sometimes i can get them both in chrome, but only about half the time
<greg-g> what is that pdf hosting site that uses flash?
<snap-l> scribd
<greg-g> thats it!
<greg-g> thanks
<snap-l> I have it tattooed in my brain with rage.
<snap-l> You're not going to put your slides on there?
<greg-g> yeah, I have the rage part, but I think my mind block out the name
<greg-g> hellz no
<snap-l> Thank you.
<Wolfger> why all the hate?
<snap-l> Wolfger: Because it sucks
<brousch> scribd eats baby monkeys and poops radioactive waste
<snap-l> It sucks with the force of a thousand black holes
<snap-l> It sucks so hard, even the suck can't escape the gravitational pull of suck
<snap-l> Making people have to upload a file so they can download a file is suck
<snap-l> Locking down the reader so you have to use flash is sucl
<greg-g> we (Open.Michigan) were considering uploading some docs to scribd, I was vehemently against it. "We have servers, we can host effing pdfs, why do we need scribd?"
<brousch> use archive.org
<rick_h_> <3 open source...forking github and making changes so damn useful
<snap-l> greg-g: Exactly
<Blazeix> I'm a fan of using the embeddable google docs viewer for PDFs
<rick_h_> +1
<rick_h_> I actually really like the chrome pdf viewing
<Blazeix> you still host the PDF on your site, but it provides a nice inline render
<rick_h_> I don't think I ahve a pdf reader installed currently tbh
<greg-g> that thing that jrwren and I retweeted looks nice, could be the base of a great web-based pdf reader
<Blazeix> oh, sweet
<greg-g> yeah, I get excited about that kind of stuff, I'm weird
<Blazeix> the docs viewer renders the pdf as images, but still manages to hide selectable text in there somehow
<Blazeix> so it kind of cheats, but it works well
<greg-g> yeah, that is killer. OCR behind an image
<snap-l> I think I've found my new calling... acting as radio station for jcastro
<snap-l> ;)
<jcastro> yeah!
 * snap-l is filling up the outloud.fm room with CC music. ;)
<greg-g> I have to log in using twitter or facebook?
<greg-g> how can I join with you guys?!?!?!
<snap-l> Yeah, I held my nose.
<Wolfger> snap-l sold out!
<greg-g> what room?
<snap-l> http://outloud.fm/UbuntuAllstars
<greg-g> this is. amazing.
<snap-l> Yes, yes it is.
<snap-l> I'm starting to consider making an icecast station
<snap-l> save for my upload bandwidth sucks
<greg-g> damn no ogg support
<jcastro> they're working  on it
<greg-g> so, what's the theme here?
<greg-g> in UbuntuAllstars
<jrwren> snap-l: you logged into outloud.fm ?
<jcastro> greg-g: free for all I guess
<jcastro> we've been going through moods depending on what the guy in front of you plays
<snap-l> jrwren: yes, yes I did
<snap-l> <- shameface.
<rick_h_> any RT <3 appreciated: https://twitter.com/#!/BookieBmarks/status/81040163366645760
<binbrain> jrwren: that humpty dance recap is hilarious
<smoser> rick_h_, so, the person i asked regarding "how do i buy an ubuntu server" said "HP in my mind"
<rick_h_> smoser: ok, I've heard that as well
<rick_h_> just disappointed I couldn't price/build on their site
<smoser> i do not recal if you have issues finding exactly what on the hp site was "supported' or not
<smoser> ah.
<greg-g> jcastro: quit slacking and queue up some songs :)
<rick_h_> but good to know I should go ahead and put the extra work into contacting for a quote
<smoser> rick_h_, http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/servers
<smoser> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/15351-15351-3328412-241644-241475-4091408.html
<rick_h_> nice, ty
<rick_h_> yea, that's the model I was checking out
<jrwren> HILARIOUS
<jrwren> its super funny day today.
<jrwren> humpty dance
<jrwren> and Y! Question about techno
<jrwren> and
<rick_h_> oh actually no, these are 1u versions
<jrwren> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFuyE_VBeO8&feature=share
<brousch> dell ships servers with red hat or drdos
<brousch> my 3 servers are dell over the last 10 years and i've not had any problems
<rick_h_> yea, Jim runs dells for his pgsql server as well
<rick_h_> but heard a lot of good about HP boxes lately, but you can't build/order online so ugh
<rick_h_> and system76 has a nice box
<rick_h_> oh well, have time yet before I have to bring it up to the wife
<jrwren> for home?
<brousch> you need a server at home?
<jrwren> for home build a nice desktop
<jrwren> call it a server.
<brousch> i use a crusty old laptop with a broken screen
<rick_h_> once I get bookie multi user going, I might look at a big box for it end of year, next year
<rick_h_> my colo box now won't hold up to web serving, background processing, and db load
<rick_h_> it's 4yr old +
<brousch> EC2?
<rick_h_> no, disk throughput isn't good enough imo for a good postgres install
<rick_h_> I might have ec2 web front ends, and I'll definitely use it for the readable parsing back end scripts
<brousch> but what about your bandwidth?
<rick_h_> but not for the main site
<rick_h_> we'll see
<rick_h_> I'll run the alpha and start on the current colo box
<rick_h_> but trying to setup some goals/things to work towards
<rick_h_> server hardware pron :)
<brousch> ug, i hate hardware
<jrwren> _1
<rick_h_> yea, but trying to scale a db on EC2 isn't fun from what I can tell
<rick_h_> people doing crap like raid'ing 6+ EBS volumes to get throughput on there
<jrwren> you don't.
<jrwren> you design apps to run on EC2
<jrwren> that don't use relational DB
<rick_h_> http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2009/08/06/ec2ebs-single-and-raid-volumes-io-bencmark/
<rick_h_> right, but that's the fun of bookie, it's meant to work with sqlite in a single user install
<rick_h_> yet I want to grow things to be able to run a large multi-user install with tons of links/content I can build cool 'big data' services/tools on
<brousch> doesn't amazon have a DB thing?
<jrwren> http://aws.amazon.com/rds/
<rick_h_> yea, mysql only
<smoser> oracle
<rick_h_> lol, oh got me there
<rick_h_> or oracle
<brousch> who all is going to pyohio?
<rick_h_> greg-g!
<brousch> really?
<rick_h_> he's not aware of it yet, but we're kidnapping him
<brousch> excellent
<brousch> i'm gonna have to beat some commitments out of grpuggers on monday
 * greg-g hides
<brousch> it looks like the holiday inn is full up
<rick_h_> http://vimeo.com/25023898 kind of cool
<rick_h_> loud music in there work warning
<binbrain> Pandora is worth 4.2 billion according to the IPO, wholly bubble
<rick_h_> yea, gotta love it... *sigh*
<brousch> crazy
<rick_h_> who's next? I know there were some more coming
<brousch> FB
<brousch> probably worth the US national debt
<greg-g> binbrain: wasn't there a good post about how pandora actaully loses more money the more users they have?
<rick_h_> don't get me wrong, <3 pandora and I am a paying member
<binbrain> didn't read it, but it would make sense
<rick_h_> but no way they're a $B company
<brousch> sucker. you can listen for free!
<rick_h_> yea, but goold ole "if I give them money maybe they won't go away"
<rick_h_> and no ads...did I mention I hate the world we live in with ads?
<rick_h_> charge me a small fee kthx
<brousch> snap-l is my dj
<binbrain> My wife is already paying member, I think I will be soon, they are getting more aggressive with there ads
<binbrain> including interrupting in the middle of songs
<brousch> binbrain: my wife is hinting at it too
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> yea, I've got that grace internet radio and my wife and I love pandora on it
<rick_h_> parties, friends over playing cards, hanging out with the boy, nice to have some music background
<brousch> my boy has his own computer. he is our dj at home
<brousch> which might explain why my wife walks around with headphones most of the time ...
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> i should spam the outloud room with his music
<rick_h_> http://vimeo.com/12112529 ok that is just awesome
<rick_h_> damn I wish I was artistic sometimes
<brousch> you make the platforms the artists can distribute through
<brousch> but i know what you mean
<snap-l> OK, have to say that outloud.fm was awesome
<greg-g> indeed, I'm just getting ready for a call, so had to dip out
<snap-l> Yeah, me too
<brousch> yeah, i got on just as i hit phone duty
<Wolfger> PyOhio hotel is booked?
<Wolfger> Hmm.
<brousch> one of them, others seem ok
<rick_h_> what did I see? they only have something like 5 rooms, but the price keeps going or something
<rick_h_> or was that the blackwell
<Wolfger> Oh well... not like it's a Perl conference or anything cool ;-)
<brousch> i think the blackwell is the only walkable one. others need busses or driving
<rick_h_> yea, <3 blackwell once you get past some light sticker shock
<rick_h_> at least for breakfast
<brousch> i have started skipping breakfast
<Wolfger> Some day I will plunge into Python, and then I will have to go experience the awesomeness.
<brousch> Wolfger: by the time you get to python the world will have moved on
<brousch> javascript is the next hotness
<Wolfger> brousch: likely so
<rick_h_> naw, you need both
<brousch> for now you do
<snap-l> I'm going to have to buy Jono some drum sounds for Christmas
<rick_h_> my latest code (from the bookie weekly report) is part node.js/javascript and part python
<snap-l> that snare sound he has sounds like a bossanova rim shot
<Wolfger> and O'Reilly says we can't live without Javascript now. They wouldn't lie just to sell books, would they?
<brousch> javascript is in everything
<rick_h_> bah, they sell books all over
<rick_h_> but yea, hard to escape it these days in a lot of app worlds
<brousch> even your desktop if you run win8 or gnome3
<snap-l> Oh no, you got Javascript all over me
<Wolfger> money shot!
<Blazeix> My new TV runs javascript
<Blazeix> that's how you make apps for it
<Blazeix> I was pretty excited when I found out
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I was going to ask what tv that was
<brousch> see, it's even in your tv
<rick_h_> I wasn't sure if that was part of your work project or just for fun
<snap-l> Better get the 409
<Wolfger> .... javascript in a TV?
<snap-l> maybe even the Bissell
<rick_h_> Blazeix: CHC?
<brousch> cross-platform mobile apps? javascript
<rick_h_> I might seriously get a pre3 when it comes out later this year
<Blazeix> just for fun. samsung un46d7000
<rick_h_> dev for that thing is just too good
<Blazeix> I'll be at CHC tonight
<rick_h_> oh, one of the nice new fancy ones
<brousch> rick_h_: have you tried phonegap? it's nice
<rick_h_> 3g right?
<Blazeix> it looks like all the new samsung tvs have javascript/html5 apps
<rick_h_> brousch: no, it's on my todo to test out what it would take to get bookie's mobile into there
<rick_h_> and see how performance compares
<rick_h_> but not there yet
<snap-l> Yo Dawg, I got your Javascript in your TV so you can Javascript while you TV.
<rick_h_> woot woot
<brousch> it's really simple. you just make a webapp and it offers you some native access through simple APIs
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I'd have to see how much work there is to port/move things over
<rick_h_> right now the mobile site is one page of html and 4 js libraries of apis/jquery/etc
<brousch> but the html comes from a genshi template or something
<rick_h_> yea, mako template, but it's one file. nothing too dynamic in the page load
<rick_h_> it all comes down via an initial onload api call
<rick_h_> anyway, yea I'll peek at that sometime
<rick_h_> would be cool to see if the work to build into native pays off for some better performance
<rick_h_> and eventually offline potential/etc
<brousch> i don't think you'll see a performance increase
<brousch> phonegap is just a wrapper around webkit
<rick_h_> yea, I'm not sure. Some of it is the jquery slowness which I figured might get a boost
<rick_h_> but not sure
<brousch> all you'll save is download time
<rick_h_> meh, then not worried about that part
<Wolfger> Hey, PyOhio is a <30 minute walk from a campground...
<brousch> ew
<Wolfger> doesn't really look like a campground, though. Looks like an RV park
<brousch> rick_h_: does offline even make sense for a bookmark sharing program?
<Wolfger> from the Google maps satellite view
<snap-l> OK, I just need a little reality check here
<snap-l> http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2011/06/14/oss-contribution-and-consumption
<snap-l> This is a survey from the Eclipse Foundation
<snap-l> Survey of organizations who employ OSS in some capacity
<snap-l> If you're using Eclipse, that's OSS
<snap-l> I guess there's people who don't use Eclipse at work
<brousch> i use it everywhere possible because it is awesome
<snap-l> n/m, maybe I'm just reading something into it that isn't there.
<jrwren> what are you talking about?
<snap-l> jrwren: Don't mind me.
<snap-l> jrwren: I was inferring that some Eclipse developers don't know that they're using OSS
<snap-l> but that's not an inference that I can make
<jrwren> not all eclipse is OSS too.
<jrwren> e.g. FlexBuilder from adobe.
<jrwren> and WebSphere Studio from IBM
<jrwren> both eclipse... but not OSS
<rick_h_> jcastro: what?!  Milosz Tanski has an updated current title: Senior iCloud Software
<rick_h_> +Engineer at Apple Inc.
<rick_h_> that's kind of crazy
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> no wonder he has mad at me for making fun of apple
<jcastro> I thought he was still at Facebook
<jrwren> senior is the craziest part, lol.
<snap-l> For those of us who have been living under a rock, who is Milosz?
<jrwren> was a local linux guy.
<jrwren> went to OU while jorge worked there.
<jrwren> smart guy.
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<rick_h_> He was an ann arbor-ite with a nice ruski accent that started moving around and working at the big places
<rick_h_> I missed the time at facebook I guess
<jcastro> http://www.crunchbase.com/person/milosz-tanski
<jcastro> oh, forgue just told me he never went to FB, just interviewed there
<snap-l> Holy fuck, he has a crunchbase profile? :)
<rick_h_> ah ok, yea didn't remember that part
<jcastro> http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jorge-castro
<jcastro> !!!!!
<snap-l> http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jorge-castro
<brousch> that says he's polish
<snap-l> He work on the Ubuntu Community Team for Canonical Ltd.
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I didn't recall where he was actually from
<snap-l> He work-a like a man
<jcastro> he is polish
<brousch> jcastro: nice ingrish in your profile there
<snap-l> I changed it
<snap-l> "He works as part of the Ubuntu..."
<jcastro> I didn't even know I had a profile
<rick_h_> I didn't even know wtf crunchbase was
<snap-l> jcastro: You famous
<snap-l> you work
<brousch> i still don't
<brousch> you can change other people's profiles?
<jcastro> it's like the company/people database for techcrunch
<snap-l> Yep. I changed Mark Zuckerberg's to say that he owns the internet's first taco truck
<jcastro> it must mean I've graduated to valley-level douchebaggery
<snap-l> jcastro: Congratulations?
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> snap-l: did you see the thing where Jason Calacanis said blogging is over and stupid people should just stop blogging because there are too many stupid people on the internet
<jcastro> it's like, hello, pot, kettle.
<snap-l> jcastro: I think Jason Calacanis should shoot off his dick so he stops propagating stupid.
<brousch> wow
<jrwren> i feel dirty for even knowing who 16:22    snap-l| jcastro: I think Jason Calacanis should shoot off his dick so he stops propagating
<snap-l> Well, he has these ideas that start off nice, and then turn into MLM shit.
<rick_h_> hold on...I'll fix it " because there are too  many stupid people
<rick_h_> "
<jrwren> i feel dirty for even knowing who Calacanis is
<snap-l> There was a short period where I thought that calacanis was reforming
<snap-l> but frankly, he's an idiot that thinks there's brilliance in appropriating other people's ideas.
<jcastro> I think what he really wants is for people to stop blogging so they can content farm their garbage on mahalo
<snap-l> Again, Mahalo was a neat idea, but turned into a shitpile
<snap-l> And his "This week in [douche]" douchebaggery was the final straw.
<snap-l> Calacanis and Arrington should just go bowling sometime
<snap-l> With C4 bowling balls
<jjesse> wow lots of hate
<jjesse> i thought he just disappeared, hadn't heard anything from him in a long time
<snap-l> He's a grumpy man, like Rupert Murdock
<snap-l> Sorry, but that blogging remark really irritates me
<snap-l> Also, if blogging is dead, then why does he still have an RSS feed and pictures of his bulldogs?
<snap-l> "You have to have a deep understanding to be a blogger," Calacanis said.
<jjesse> wow snap-l you have lots of hate :)
<snap-l> Apparently jcastro found a sort spot
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/06/15/jason-calacanis-stop-pissing-in-the-internet-pool/
<greg-g> did anyone take photos last night? rick_h_ snap-l jcastro widox smoser
<greg-g> I failed at that
<snap-l> I took one photo of you
<snap-l> I think gib recorded it, but I'll be damned if I know what he does with them
<snap-l> Or, more likely, I shudder to think what might be done with them
<brousch> he must post it somewhere
<snap-l> I have NFC
<greg-g> he said he usually did youtube, but this'll be a bit big for that, so I suggested archive.org
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-16
<brousch> break it apart into seperate talks
<greg-g> yeah, suppose so, I'll ping him about it
<greg-g> at least throw up the original on archive.org so you or I could download it, process it, and upload to youtube/whatever
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, I forgot my camera, but remembered it for tonight
<brousch> crap, those would be good pictures for the loco flickr group
<greg-g> yeah :/
<greg-g> we fail at promotion
<greg-g> I'm at least writing up a blog post right now
<greg-g> emailed gib
<greg-g> we'll see what his plan is
<brousch> ah, super-s and super-w make me so happy
<greg-g> huh, neat :)
<brousch> hey, i just experienced an annoyance from osx on unity! we're finally there!
<brousch> dialog box from an app opened on a different workspace, hard to find where it went
<greg-g> what the flip, where did my skype credit go?! I used to have that default 10 cents and never used it, now I have 0.00!
<snap-l> If you are a Silverlight or C# developer, take a deep breath and think about a time
<snap-l> before ASP.NET/C# when you might have had to develop web apps in VBScript. You
<snap-l> are about to enter a similar space.
<snap-l> greg-g: http://ubuntuone.com/p/zFB/
<snap-l> That's my slides
<widox> greg-g: nope, sorry
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome, thanks
<snap-l> np
<greg-g> widox: boo, no thanks for you :P
<widox> :'(
<snap-l> This canvas book is great.
<snap-l> This is one of only two examples in this entire book that will work with
<snap-l> Internet Explorer 8 or earlier.
<snap-l> It's "hello world"
<greg-g> lol
<jcastro> greg-g: rick_h_: smoser: well, so much for that.
<jcastro> I ordered an X220
<widox> jcastro: hah, I am just looking at them right now
<jcastro> widox: amazon has one for http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004URCEVM/ref=ox_ya_os_product
<jcastro> I overnighted it
<jcastro> and I'll put the new intel ssd I have in it.
<jcastro> and that drive in this one and then just sell it with windows on it to someone
<greg-g> nice
<jjesse> evening :)
<snap-l> jcastro: That's the 120?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> the intel 510
<snap-l> No, I meant the laptop.
<snap-l> I was thinking of picking up the x120
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> too many problems with the wireless in the kernel right now and I need something solid for next week's sprint
<snap-l> So if you're looking for a willing buyer, I'm offering up myself. :)
<jcastro> sure.
<snap-l> Yoko Ono?
<snap-l> btw: I'm totally using gnome-open to open files now.
<greg-g> I used to use xdg-open, but gnome is easier to type
<greg-g> so, thanks smoser!
<jrwren> snap-l: wtf nonsense are you talking about "silverlight or C# developer" that doesn't even make sense.
<snap-l> I swear, you must have keyword searches.
<snap-l> This is for a HTML5 Canvas book
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFuyE_VBeO8&feature=autoshare&has_verified=1
<snap-l> Well, that was neato
<snap-l> had a kernel oops
<TeamXlink> I'm trying to run this file, it is called wsw_server.
<TeamXlink> This is the command I'm using:
<TeamXlink> ./wsw_server
<TeamXlink> It says permission denied.
<TeamXlink> I'm pretty sure I have to do something related to chmod with this but I'm unsure what value I should use, for example: chmod +x wsw_server
<TeamXlink> ,
<greg-g> snap-l: this. is. amazing. (Samuel L Jackson reading Go the Fuck to Sleep)
<rick_h_> http://www.webresourcesdepot.com/open-source-dropbox-alternatives-to-start-building-a-file-storage-sharing-system/
<rick_h_> jcastro: will be happy to see the never dying iFolder in the list
<rick_h_> hadn't seen syncany before
<snap-l> I love the IQBox philosophy
<snap-l> Just put a pretty front end in front of SVN and call it a day.
<snap-l> I fully expect one with git any day now
<snap-l> and if /me read the article, he'd realize that Sparkleshare probably fits the bill
<snap-l> Hm, Ididn't realize that Sparkleshare was based on git. This is interesting to me.
<rick_h_> yea, that's their thing
<rick_h_> which is funny because git's supposed to not be good with large binary files
<rick_h_> which it would seem a backup/sync would be full of
<greg-g> yeah, i was wondering about that part
<greg-g> your .git would be huge!
<greg-g> unless there is some way to optimize that. --rebase?
<rick_h_> no idea
<greg-g> rebase every 1000 commits or something
 * greg-g shrugs
<snap-l> Well, git does vacuum from time to time
<snap-l> but I've had instances where git just sat there and spun for a very long time
<greg-g> huh
<snap-l> Yeah, while it was busily trying to compress / vacuum
<snap-l> Whatever they called it. :)
<snap-l> I just had someone ask me about my shut the box code that I have on Sourceforge
<brousch> now you have 2 people asking you
<brousch> what is your shut the box code?
<Wolfger> what is shut-the-box?
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/projects/shutbox/
<snap-l> It's an old, old GTK+ app that I wrote
<Wolfger> cool
<snap-l> Shut the box is a dice / tile game, where you roll dice, and try to shut enough tiles to add up to the dice roll
<brousch> ok, so the firefox launcher has an 'Open a new window' option if you right click. why is this not on every launcher
<brousch> working in unity today, btw. i left the mbp at home for the first time in 6 months
<rick_h_> because why would you right click on the launcher when you can do ctrl-n?
<brousch> i want it to open in a different workspace
<rick_h_> then <win> fire
<brousch> not hunt around for where the other instance is sitting, open a new one,  then move it
<rick_h_> if you run the command again does it not spawn a new windows in your current workspace?
<brousch> no, if the program is already open, clicking the launcher brings you to the running instance
<rick_h_> I didn't say click anything
<brousch> you can middle-click to open a new instance, but middle click is hairy on my laptop
<rick_h_> I mean doesn't the windows key bring down the gnome-do ish thingy you can type in?
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> and if you enter that a second time you don't get a new window?
<brousch> yes, that works
<brousch> i think my frustration stems from the launcher and the default click behavior being the same as in osx. but in osx you can right click and select 'open new window' on any launcher
<brousch> ubuntu has embraced and crippled this behavior
<Wolfger> I thought they were supposed to embrace and extend...
<brousch> ctrl-alt-t for a new terminal is awesome though. i ner got something like that working on osx
<greg-g> brousch: well, I think each launcher needs app-specific rules
<brousch> firefox has it, but chrome doesn't
<greg-g> ctrl+alt+t? that doesnt' do anything for me
<greg-g> brousch: right, so the desktop file for that app needs to be updated
<greg-g> is my guess
<brousch> that should open a new terminal instance
<greg-g> from anywhere?
<brousch> yeah
<greg-g> I've had that set as ctrl+<whatever the hell that "right-click" functionality key to the left of right-control is called>
<greg-g> ... since I started using gnome :)
<brousch> i didn't get into gnome-do, so i've always opened programs by clicking an icon
 * greg-g loves gnome-do
<greg-g> can't live without it
<brousch> isn't it pointless with unity's lenses?
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> I wouldn't think so, until there are some much better lenses
<greg-g> ef lenses, that means I have to move my mouse way over to the left
<greg-g> I'm just a ctrl+space away from every program/file/folder on my system
<greg-g> yuck, over steeped tea :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: I hate it when I do that
<rick_h_> I need a steeper with build in timer, and loud at that
<greg-g> no kidding
<rick_h_> detects the sudden rise in temp and starts a 5min timer for me
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> with a little dial to set it for 3, 4, 5, 6 minutes (depending on the tea)
<rick_h_> right, sorry, I'm a black tea guy so forget about those other buttons :P
<greg-g> :) yeah, this one was black
<Wolfger> I love it... temp-activated timer
<greg-g> ... and PATENTED!
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> Hey, don't be killing off our wild-eyed ideas with patents yet.
<snap-l> Although I do want to patent that stupid scrollbar thingie that canonical did
<snap-l> and sue them so they stop using it
<snap-l> Really damn annoying
<greg-g> I actually don't mind it
 * greg-g ducks
<snap-l> greg-g: You'd better duck
<snap-l> Try this.
<snap-l> Get a large page of information
<snap-l> at least several screenfulls
<snap-l> Move your mouse to the bottom
<snap-l> and try to scroll
<snap-l> Before: Click in the trench, and move a screenful
<snap-l> now: find where the orange bit is, move next to it, and hope that it's not near the edge of the screen
<Wolfger> ....
<Wolfger> using patents to stop people from doing really stupid and annoying things?
<Wolfger> I like it!
<snap-l> It's patently stupid. :)
<Wolfger> bazinga
<snap-l> In a patent manner; openly, plainly, or clearly: a patently false statement.
<snap-l> In a patent manner; openly, plainly, or clearly: a patently false statement.
<snap-l> Sorry, didn't mean to double paste
<snap-l> That's what patently means
<snap-l> I love that one of the definitions of patent means "open"
<snap-l> as in not keeping secret
<greg-g> hehe, well, they *are* *supposed* to be a quid pro quo of disclosing the technology to the public, but you being the only entity to be able to createa product using it
<greg-g> which is why software patents don't make sense, they don't actually disclose anything other than a over generalized paragraph that isn't even close to pseudocode
<snap-l> Well, because if they put actual code in there, they'd give someone the ability to work around it
<snap-l> Because TMTOWTDI
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> There's more than one way to do it
<snap-l> The Perl motto
<brousch> i got interviewed. i'm famous now! http://www.rapidgrowthmedia.com/innovationnews/0616conga.aspx
<snap-l> brousch: That's awesome!
<rick_h_> hah, awesome!
<Wolfger> snap-l: I think I shall name my next video game character Tim Toady....
<Wolfger> brousch: congrats on your 15 minutes :-)
<brousch> the radio interview with the same media outlet should be played on the 24th
<brousch> soon i'll have 300 minutes!
<brousch> 30
<snap-l> if they're really starved for content, 300 minutes.
<snap-l> But radio stations are quick to cut and edit
<snap-l> you'll likely get 3 minutes
<snap-l> while the segment on how dogs have emotional bonds with their owners will get 10
<snap-l> "Sadie, an daschund, is the most striking example of these human / dog bonds"
<brousch> it's supposedly a 15 minute segment. we spent like 1.5 hours recording it
<brousch> the ubuntu forums are good for something! found a work around to a virtualenv pil libjpeg bug
<snap-l> W00t
<jrwren> snap-l: no, i just read the backlog.  but silverlight or C# developer for html5 canvas book... neato!
<jrwren> snap-l: you know someone wrote a C# and XNA compiler that compiles down to html5 canvas and JS?
<snap-l> no no no no no
<brousch> man it feels good to be back on linux
<greg-g> brousch: congrats!
<jcastro> snap-l: weird, you like disappeared from the chat thing in the music thing
<Wolfger> Huh. "Noto" is Italian for "well-known".... And now we see where "notorious" comes from.
<Wolfger> jcastro: "the chat thing in the music thing"?
<jcastro> http://outloud.fm/UbuntuAllstars
<jcastro> Wolfger: ^
<jcastro> shared music listening
<snap-l> jcastro: That's weird.
<snap-l> Still in there.
<Wolfger> oh, right, the service I can't log into because it requires one of two logins which are verboten from work
<snap-l> Wolfger: And will be banned from work because it's a streaming music service.
<jcastro> snap-l: oh hey they responded to me
<jcastro> thay're thinking about openid
<snap-l> Bless them
<Wolfger> snap-l: not necessarily.... I mean, it's not pictures of cars or anything like that...
<Wolfger> ;-)
<snap-l> That one I don't et.
<snap-l> I mean, how much more assinie can you get.
<Wolfger> Google Voice on http is verboten, Google Voice on https is fine....
<snap-l> That's just smart. :)
<Wolfger> and last I checked, all the popular translation pages were forbidden as well
<Wolfger> which was very odd for a company owned by a foreign company... it's like they didn't want us reading the German edition of the DaimlerChrysler intranet site
<snap-l> Yeah, they don't want you creating an international incident
<Wolfger> I am a jelly doughnut
<Wolfger> No, seriously, I need a diet and exercise regimen.
<snap-l> Mistranslating one thing, or figuring out what your Italian / German overlords are doing.
<brousch> i had a lot of refresh issues with outloud yesterday
<brousch> my chats never went through and i had to reload the page to get it to refresh anything
<jcastro> snap-l: heya, throw on a bunch of Yes, educate me
<snap-l> None of it is ripped
<snap-l> reminder: I lost my music hard drive
<Wolfger> ouch
<snap-l> Even better, Banshee won't rip anything from Musicbrainz that has multiple entries
<snap-l> ie: US release, EU release, etc.
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GqAJqFQcGE
<Wolfger> snap-l: k3b ftw
<Wolfger> I don't care which desktop manager you use, k3b is the best
<Wolfger> just pretend it's not a k app
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0mQvObVVdU
<snap-l> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac
<snap-l> Oh damn
<snap-l> Check the install.sh script.
<greg-g> snap-l: WOW
<snap-l> amazing what a space will do
<brousch> ug forgot to license my new program
<brousch> what's this affero thing?
<rick_h_> snap-l: wow, that's one heck of a bug
<greg-g> brousch: what kind of program?
<brousch> web app server
<greg-g> then Affero means that if anyone takes the code and runs an instance, anyone who access that instance can request the source under the terms of the AGPL
<greg-g> it closes the "web loophole" of the GPL
<brousch> sounds good
<greg-g> because, under the GPL, someone could take the code and make substantial modifications, put up a new instance, and not be obligated to share their changes even though users are using it
<brousch> because they aren't really "Running" it
<greg-g> right, there was no "conveyance"
<greg-g> no distribution
<greg-g> the GPL is invoked on distribution. AGPL is invoked on use, basically
<brousch> i cheated and looked at bookie, which is how i saw it
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> rick_h_ and I had a skype chat about that choice
<brousch> rick_h_: i think you have extra crap at the bottom of your COPYING file
<greg-g> heh, the "how to apply" part
<brousch> vetted by rick_h_ and greg-g? it has to be good
<rick_h_> patches welcome :P
<greg-g> I can push up a change later
<rick_h_> that's ok, just me being sarcastic :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> s'ok, that's just me being dense and overly helpful :)
<rick_h_> pushed
<brousch> thanks guys
<rick_h_> man, this is great
<rick_h_> so I've got a cron job sending me errors the last two day, odd since I've not touched it in a long while
<greg-g> snap-l: I've got some more Porcupine Tree lined up on outloud
<rick_h_> ping the IT guy and let him know about this strange error, see if he's seen it
<snap-l> Who pushed crap?
<rick_h_> snap-l: I pushed an update to my copying file in bookie
<rick_h_> oh, pushed music crap ?
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, I was talking about your cron error. :)
<rick_h_> so he replies back "I checked the and that server's not been touched/changed in months"
<rick_h_> later on check with my boss "Oh hmm, we're bringing up a replacement for that server and we copied over your cron jobs, I wonder if that's the issue?"
<rick_h_> new box, new python, new mysql libraries, of course that's wtf is broken
<rick_h_> the IT guy never mentions that yesterday he brought up a dupe of this box to me...ugh
<rick_h_> "It's not been updated in months...but..."
<snap-l> rick_h_: Um, that's pretty major change
<snap-l> you'd think that someone would mention that even in passing
<rick_h_> yea, might mention it you'd think :)
<jcastro> snap-l: good news, my laptop shipped, we can go as early as tommorrow if you want
<snap-l> up to you
 * snap-l wonders if there's a nightly build of banshee
<snap-l> yes, yes there is
<jrwren> what laptop?
<snap-l> Jorge is having trouble with his X120e
<snap-l> and bought a X220 to replace it
<snap-l> and I offered to buy the X120e
<rick_h_> are you getting the usb wifi with it as part of the deal :P
<snap-l> I ordered that via Amazon last night
<snap-l> Prime 2 day shipping. ;)
<rick_h_> ah, good stuff
<jrwren> usb wifi?
<snap-l> Now to convince JoDee that I'm not going to be a swear-monster for five days trying to get things working onit
<snap-l> jrwren: yessir
<jrwren> run usb over wifi will be slow :p
<snap-l> Thank you, Cpt. Obvious. ;)
<jrwren> so why do it?
<jrwren> you hate wires?
<snap-l> I think you just broke my brain
<snap-l> jrwren: http://ubuntuone.com/p/zXR/
<snap-l> It's because the regular wireless card is busticated under a newer kernel
<snap-l> Just a stop-gap
<jrwren> OH!!! I get it now.
<snap-l> btw: Not calling you stupid, just happened to be the motivator poster I had on hand
<jrwren> pfff
<jrwren> you mention that as if I'd take offense to you calling me stupid :)
<brousch> but there really is a wireless usb
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB
<snap-l> Yeah, they came up with that around the same time that Bluetooth really took off
<brousch> i has to use a wifi dongle for 3 releases
<brousch> had
<brousch> it's good to know even the jcastros get bitten by those things
<snap-l> Dude, you should see jcastro's laptops sometime
<snap-l> I think they have little positioning stickers like crash test dummies.
<snap-l> After release party, Jorge sighs because it's back to the unstable mines for another release cycle.
<brousch> heh, i guess that explains it. i only see him at release parties
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> dogfooding can be a bitch
<jcastro> for example tonight I am using Jill's laptop for the lugwash presentation
<jcastro> my stuff is always in various states of brokeness
<Team-Xlink> I'm trying to run this file, it is called wsw_server.
<Team-Xlink> This is the command I'm using:
<Team-Xlink> ./wsw_server
<Team-Xlink> It says permission denied.
<Team-Xlink> I'm pretty sure I have to do something related to chmod with this but I'm unsure what value I should use.
<rick_h_> chmod +x wsw_server
<TeamXlink> Sweet, thank you.
<rick_h_> anyone need an old 29" non-flat tv?
<rick_h_> she needs a new home, some lovin
<TeamXlink> Where are you located, my friend has been looking for a new tv.
<rick_h_> clarkston
<rick_h_> east side, dtw area
<TeamXlink> Ah, thats a ways.
<TeamXlink> I'll tell him about it still though.
<TeamXlink> When I do chmod +x wsw_server and then do ./wsw_server it says "cannot execut binary file"
<rick_h_> what is this file?
<TeamXlink> Is the executable file for my warsow server.
<snap-l> Are you doing this under tmp?
<snap-l>  /tmp
<TeamXlink> No there all in a subfolder of my home directory.
<rick_h_> is there a .in file in there?
<rick_h_> or a .sh?
<TeamXlink> No there isn't.
<snap-l> Yay, new Banshee works better with Musicbrainz
<snap-l> so I'm back on a ripping streak
<Team-Xlink> After I do chmod +x wsw_server and then do ./wsw_server it says "cannot execute binary file"
<snap-l> Team-Xlink: Where did you get this binary file?
<snap-l> ie: What's the tar file / zip file that you downloaded?
<Team-Xlink> From the zip archive from this link: wget http://www.zcdn.org/dl/warsow_0.61_unified.zip found on this page: http://www.warsow.net/download/
<TeamXlink> I don't believe its corrupted, because I've setup an ftp server to get the zip from my windows pc and it still didn't work, I also tried doing the already extracted files instead of the .zip.
 * snap-l downloads to see what's up
<snap-l> Will be cone in about 15 minutes
<snap-l> s/cone/done/
<TeamXlink> Sweet, thank you!
<snap-l> save for their downloads keep interrupting
<TeamXlink> Yeah, using wget to get that was rather tedious and took a long while to get one that fully downloaded.
<snap-l> Trying the torrent file.
<snap-l> I think there's only one other person seeding this
<snap-l> and some douchey offer to download someone's torrent client
<TeamXlink> Here, I'll start up my torrent as well.
<TeamXlink> I'm now seeding it.
<snap-l> Now we're cooking with gas
<TeamXlink> Yeah, my upload speed isn't the greatest at the moment.
<snap-l> OK, I know what the problem is
<TeamXlink> :D
<snap-l> #1 they're using zip, so permissions aren't kept
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<snap-l> #2: You need to run chmod on the following:
<snap-l> chmod +x *.i386 *.x86_64
<snap-l> wsw_server is a script that calls one of the executables (wsw_server.i386 or wsw_server.x86_64)
<TeamXlink> It still gives me the same error.
<TeamXlink> Do I have to reboot?
<snap-l> no, you shouldn't
<snap-l> Paste the exact error that you're getting
<TeamXlink> I'm using the same moniI'm using the same monitor for irc computer that I am for the server compuiter so I can't see what I'm typing, but here you go:
<TeamXlink> chmod +x *.i386 *.x86_64
<TeamXlink> ./wsw_server
<TeamXlink> bash: ./wsw_server: {ermission denied
<TeamXlink> Then if I try and use sudo bash:
<snap-l> Why?
<TeamXlink> sudo bash wsw_server
<snap-l> Why would you try to sudo something like that?
<TeamXlink> wsw_server: wsw_server: cannot execute binary file
<TeamXlink> Alright, I'm back to the irc.
<TeamXlink> Well, it said permission denied, so I tried to do it as root.
<jcastro> greg-g: we reapply this year right?
<TeamXlink> Too see if it made a difference.
<jcastro> greg-g: I'm going to try to find someone to help refresh the logo
<snap-l> Bad habit
<snap-l> sudo is not the same as "force"
<TeamXlink> Ah.
<snap-l> What does ./wsw_server.i386 give you?
<jrwren> wtf is wsw server?
<rick_h_> a game
<snap-l> Warsow
<TeamXlink> Its the server for the game.
<TeamXlink> I'm testing your fix now.
<TeamXlink> When I do ./wsw_server.i386
<TeamXlink> It tells me:
<TeamXlink> ./wsw_server.i386: error while loading shared libraries: libcurl.so.4: cannot open shared object file:no such file or directory.
<TeamXlink> IT looks like I'm missing libcurl.
<TeamXlink> I'll aptget it now.
<TeamXlink> Wow thats a lot of package options.
<TeamXlink> I I think I need libcurl-dev
<jrwren> shouldn't.
<jrwren> that is for compiling.
<jrwren> you won't get a ld.so error for not having dev.
<jrwren> the package is libcurl3
<TeamXlink> Ah thank you.
<TeamXlink> Now it says:
 * jrwren waits
<TeamXlink> ./wsw_server.i386: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version 'GLIBC_2.11' not found required by ./wsw_server.i386
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> pastebin the output of ldd ./wsw_server.i386
<jrwren> are you on 32bit or 64bit ubuntu?
<TeamXlink> I can't pastebin it.
<TeamXlink> Its a cli install.
<jrwren> how can you not pastebin?
<TeamXlink> I don't have an internet browser or even a gui.
<jrwren> do you have a network?
<TeamXlink> I'm using irc on a differn't computer.
<TeamXlink> Yeah, it does I think.
<TeamXlink> Well, I know it does.
<jrwren> so secure shell to it and do all your work in an SSH session.
<TeamXlink> Ah.
<TeamXlink> Good idea, I'll go install open-ssh
<jrwren> always step1 of a new ubuntu install :)
<TeamXlink> Yeah, it does I think.I'mI'm downloading putty now.
<jrwren> oh you are on windows desktp?  cool!
<jrwren> we shall take over this #ubuntu-us-mi and make it a server channel :)  muhuwahwhahaha
<TeamXlink> lol
<TeamXlink> http://pastebin.com/FcC08qgt
<jrwren> fwiw, i just downloaded it and it ran first time for me.
<jrwren> i assume you following this http://www.warsow.net/wiki/index.php?title=Dedicated_Server
<TeamXlink> Not exactly, that wiki post isn't updated, and some of the stuff is unessary.
<jrwren> are you even doing this on ubuntu?
<TeamXlink> Yep.
<jrwren> 11.04 ?
<TeamXlink> 8.04 cli
<jrwren> wtf???
<brousch> jcastro: we did a logo refresh last year http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ubuntu-us-mi-blr3.png
<jrwren> that is 3 yrs old!
<jcastro> !
<TeamXlink> The computer's about 10 years old
<jcastro> needs updating in the loco directory
<jrwren> TeamXlink: upgrade !
<jcastro> and the wiki
<brousch> though i still prefer http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ubuntu-us-mi-blr-mn.svg
<TeamXlink> jwren, thats why I'm using them as servers.
<jrwren> TeamXlink: you need to move to lucid.
<jcastro> brousch: hahah, awesome
<jrwren> ./wsw_server.i386 requires libc6 > 2.11
<jrwren> lucid was first to ship that
<jrwren> its LTS->LTS so upgrade should be easy
<TeamXlink> Can't I just apt-get it?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> that is the core libc library
<jrwren> EVERYTHING uses it.
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<TeamXlink> I'll go burn a new disk.
<jrwren> think like... that is where printf is defined :)
<TeamXlink> Ah, that makes sense.
<jrwren> whatever doc you are following you might include that lucid is oldest ubuntu that might work.
<jcastro> brousch: do you have the logo with a transparent background?
<brousch> jcastro: i have an svg, let me fire up inkscape and fix it
 * jcastro unbreaks the wiki
<brousch> it is broken?
<jcastro> no I missized the logo
 * jcastro whistles
<greg-g> jcastro: cool re logo, and yeah, reapplying before October. I need to get more Team Report written :/
 * greg-g goes away for a while again
<jcastro> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
<jcastro> I don't have access to fix this logo either
<greg-g> fucking eh, damn twitter spammers spamming out loco dir stream. i'm about ready to remove that
<brousch> jcastro: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ubuntu-us-mi-blr3.svg
<brousch> make any size you want from that, transparent bg
<greg-g> jcastro: you are now admin for our team on the LD
<greg-g> one of the admins, that is
<jcastro> <3
<greg-g> ok, away from IRC for realz this time
<jcastro> oh cool
<jcastro> it gets the logo from the launchpad logo
<jcastro> so only one place to keep it up to date
<brousch> jcastro: are you replacing the one on launchpad?
<jcastro> heh now I can't
<jcastro> I don't have permissions so I have to wait on greg, heh
<brousch> i think i can do it
<jcastro> lp has a dumb logo thing
<jcastro> it asks for a specific size
<jcastro> and doesn't resize
<jcastro> BOOO
<brousch> i'm making them now
<brousch> got it
<brousch> looks like it worked
<brousch> wow, the microblogging feed looks really useful http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
<snap-l> Yeah, buncha twitter shit
<jcastro> snap-l: hey if you're not doing anything I;m heading to lugwash tonight to speak
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> i'm heading to Lansing to speak.
<snap-l> that sounds interesting, but got plans tonight
<snap-l> Thanks, though!
<jcastro> np
<brousch> jrwren: what's in lansing?
<jrwren> GLUGNET
<jrwren> .net user group.
<jrwren> gonna me talking about using C# to write iphone apps
<brousch> not about how microsoft is killing .net?
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> that is so funny its still funny
<brousch> so you use monotouch?
<jrwren> yes
 * snap-l is helping to clean up Musicbraiz. :)
<snap-l> So the next por sod that has to import some music won't have to go through the same trouble.
<snap-l> http://musicbrainz.org/user/whygottalogin
<brousch> has anyone use chromebook's ssh for remove development?
<brousch> i think it would work as a cloud ide
<snap-l> I tried, and it was pretty shit
<snap-l> as a terminal, it did a lot of really funky things that I didn't expect it to do
<brousch> like what?
<snap-l> colors were off
<snap-l> it behaved like a very brain-dead terminal
<_stink_> hey, weren't folks in here talking about using f or t in vim to get to a spot in a line?
<_stink_> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3526
<_stink_> fwiw
<snap-l> http://videos.revision3.com/revision3/web/pennpoint/0149/pennpoint--0149--lampanelli--large.h264.mp4
<snap-l> Nosurer way to get me into a KFC than to have someone in a chicken suit danging in front of it in protest.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-17
<snap-l> Where's tjagoda when you need him?
<snap-l> http://thisismynext.com/2011/06/16/rims-latest-earnings-call-500k-playbooks-shipped-layoffs-coming/
<rick_h_> yea, saw an article on how O2 in europe is going to stop carrying the playbook
<rick_h_> "lack of customer value" or something
<rick_h_> thought of him
<snap-l> WEll, they've had the most athetic launch of any tablet I've ever seen
<rick_h_> http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20071619-260/o2-snubs-playbook-over-customer-experience-issue/
<rick_h_> " a cut of 20 to 29 percent."
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> Yeah, they're getting smoked
<rick_h_> dammit, that db moron is taking down the db again, ugh
<snap-l> Why?
<rick_h_> stupid mysql user defined function (udf)
<snap-l> Oh, beauty.
<snap-l> That DB guy. :
<rick_h_> they keep trying to use it and it still brings down the whole freaking server causing my app (it hosts about 15 dbs on it) to go down
<rick_h_> I got the postgresql custom aggregate functions going today, just awesome
<rick_h_> SELECT my_own_func(col1) FROM table WHERE x = y GROUP BY z
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> written in python
<snap-l> Yeah, PostgreSQL is awesome.
<rick_h_> simply badass
<rick_h_> http://blog.bitbucket.org/2011/06/17/pull-request-revamp/ welcome to this decade bitbucket
<snap-l> nice
<brousch> ah, it's so nice to have a working ffmpeg command line again. i<3ubuntu
<snap-l> Yeah, you don't realize how different using Linux vs Darwin is
<snap-l> and macports, while it's a nice stopgap, is like using cygwin under windows
<snap-l> though not as bad
<snap-l> I can still type ls in a mac terminal and get something useful out of it
<greg-g> ugh, slow wiki.ubuntu.com, these team reports will be the death of me
<snap-l> Linode just gave me an extra 4GB of disk space.
<TeamXlink> I'm creating a slide show program for a specific set of files, however the files are named weird. There named as numbers, but each name has six numbers, and the numbers before the first one are 0, for example the first image is 000001.jpg, the second is 000002.jpg, how would I do this, I've tried this: imagestr = 0000000 + 1 & ".jpg" but it removes the 0s and ends up trying to find 1.jpg
<TeamXlink> instead of 000001.jpg
<TeamXlink> Does anyone know how I would go about doing this?
<TeamXlink> Ah, I think I just that of a really redundent reptitive way to do it.
<TeamXlink> Sweet, it works, thank you!
<greg-g> g'morn, all
<Wolfger> morning greg-g
<Wolfger> and everybody else, too
<brousch> yessir
<snap-l> G'morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> How are things in happy valley?
<greg-g> lovely
<snap-l> That good, eh?
<greg-g> eh, you know, its a friday
<rick_h_> party!
<snap-l> Does gib even watch these things?
<snap-l> The first video is of a completely different event.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwjNRI83CME
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM_H6jHVDk
<brousch> is he wearing the camera on a hat or something?
<snap-l> No, it's a little hand-held camera
<greg-g> and, not to be vain, but I don't think I'm in them :/
<greg-g> and not that I think my presentation was very good, either
<brousch> i saw you in the 6 minute video
<brousch> but just a second or so
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> Yeah, that's all MUG business.
<snap-l> Which is not particularly interesting if you're not at MUG. :)
<greg-g> nope :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: so are you saying you want to borrow the recording gear for mug next month?
<brousch> 240p
<brousch> lapelcam?
<rick_h_> $20 ebay cam
<brousch> oooh, rick_h_ is up next
<rick_h_> ruh roh :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not sure if I'll be there next month
<snap-l> JODee talked about going to Weird Al next month
<snap-l> same day
<greg-g> whoa, nice
<rick_h_> greg-g: is a weird al fan?
<rick_h_> I didn't see that one coming
<snap-l> greg-g is a music fan
<snap-l> he's a drummer. We're weird like that
<rick_h_> what's that got with liking weird al?
<brousch> weird al is one of the 3 concerts i've ever been to
<Wolfger> I would love to go to a Weird Al concert
<snap-l> It's a hell of a show
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: We can get you a ticket if you want. :)
<rick_h_> that's ok
<rick_h_> I have a policy against things like that
<snap-l> rick_h_: I have a policy against filk
<snap-l> but Weird Al transcends filk
 * rick_h_ goes and looks up filk
<snap-l> He's an honest-to-God parody
<snap-l> That, and I want to shoot folk singers on sight
<Wolfger> snap-l: even Tom Smith?
<snap-l> Wolfger: I haven't heard a lick of his work, and I intend to keep it that way.
<Wolfger> The man is pure genius
<Wolfger> He is the reason I say I like filk, even though most filk singers I've heard suck.
<snap-l> I don't care if he can play slide guitar with his dick, the whole genre doesn't do much for me.
<Wolfger> I suspect I really hate filk and like Tom Smith
<Wolfger> ...and that is one mental image I really, really didn't need thankyouverymuch
<snap-l> On wolfger's recommendation, I may check this out
<snap-l> even though Wolfger likes Nickelback. :)
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> Next Penguicon, if he's not conflicting with something utterly cool, I urge you to check him out
<Wolfger> Or you could safely peruse online, but in a concert is better.
<Wolfger> you get the humor, not just the music
<snap-l> Just a note of warning too, I'm not a fan of Bob Dylan performing his work
<snap-l> he's a hell of a song writer, and I fully approve of all of the covers that I've heard
<snap-l> but his performance makes me want to throw up in my mouth
<_stink_> snap-l++
<snap-l> It's like Yes. I had to get over Jon Anderson's voice to really get into it
<jcastro> rick_h_: heh, someone just proposed pep8 fixes for apt-zeroconf
<_stink_> yeah, just got that email too
<rick_h_> awesome, is that still around?
<_stink_> i had no idea
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> pep8 ftwt!
<rick_h_> err ftw!
<jcastro> yeah I guess it's just sitting there
<jcastro> I'm going to edit the description to say it's up for adoption
<snap-l> So, everyone having a good morning so far?
<Wolfger> can't complain too much
<_stink_> putting off some phone calls
<snap-l> _stink_: hurray for procrastination. :)
<_stink_> yeah.  a few days here at work with little code and lots of demos, legalese and phone calls.
<_stink_> boo.
<snap-l> And the enthusiasm for outloud.fm lasted three days. :)
<rick_h_> man there's a ton of those out right now
<rick_h_> I heard of turntable.fm and another one in the last 48hrs
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Thing is, putting music in a queue is hard work
<brousch> yeah, i was opening itunes to find the songs i wanted to add, then had it show them in finder to drag the file out
<brousch> ug
<jcastro> snap-l: greg-g: I'm back playing tunes
<jcastro> in teh channel
<snap-l> Listening to Gustav Mahler now. :)
<rick_h_> Buy 1 Ebook, Get 1 Free gahhh!
<rick_h_> stop haunting me oreilly!
<rick_h_> I thought I was good when their deal of the day was a "already got it"
<brousch> gotta buy them all!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, the deal of the day is CouchDB
<rick_h_> been there done that, but now it's buy any book get one free
<rick_h_> well...there's got to be two books I want that I don't have :/
<rick_h_> then again, checking out the list of new releases...maybe not
<snap-l> eah, don't go there.
<snap-l> They're definitely pumping out the good titles now
<rick_h_> well maybe the dns/bind ipv6
<rick_h_> I keep meaning to poke at that stuff
<Wolfger> do they have a LOLscript book yet? ;-)
<snap-l> I'm sure they'd publish it if you wrote it
<snap-l> And if not them, then Packt will
<Wolfger> ...
 * Wolfger considers writing a book, just to see how easy the market is...
<brousch> self publish
<brousch> sell it amazon for $0.99
<rick_h_> all the cool kids are doing it
<rick_h_> and make it CC, post it on your website
<brousch> anyone heard of a book written on github?
<brousch> not about
<rick_h_> yea, a git book on there
<brousch> using github to collaboratively write the book
<rick_h_> I follow it
<brousch> so there's a git book on github?
<brousch> i guess that makes sense
<_stink_> is that like bootstrapping a compiler?
<rick_h_> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
<brousch> ouch latex
<Wolfger> like writing a language in itself
<rick_h_> yea, you can fork/make pull requests to help fix parts of the book
<_stink_> i love that idea.
<jrwren> seroiusly... no PPA with packages for this stuff???  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=786095
<rick_h_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=FFmpeg
<rick_h_> take your pick
<brousch> i was thinking more along the lines of fiction. contributors would build the fictional world together and branches would have parallel stories
<brousch> jrwren medibuntu
<rick_h_> well I've not looked for fiction books
<rick_h_> but can check it out
<brousch> just an idea that occurred to me
<jrwren> i'm hesitant to change my ffmpeg package because Its working exactly how I want for some things right now.
<jrwren> brousch: nope, no webm in medibuntu
<jrwren> http://packages.medibuntu.org/natty/index.html
<jrwren> not any ffmpeg either.
<snap-l> brousch: There have been experiments where authors continue the story
<Wolfger> Well, I just massively decreased my "unread" count in G-reader....
<Wolfger> unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe....
<jcastro> snap-l: laptop is here!
<Wolfger> \o/
<snap-l> jcastro: Awesome!
<Wolfger> Woot. UN declares (narrowly) that gay people are human too... http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/06/17/un.lgbt.rights/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
<jrwren> should someone remove garrett from teh group or group email?
<snap-l> jrwren: Do you have the ability?
<snap-l> I don't think I do
<Wolfger> spam link?
<snap-l> Yeah
<Wolfger> I figured. Just hit archive and continued on
<Wolfger> I think greg-g is the only admin
<snap-l> Greg! I knew it!
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> snap-l:
<jcastro> the ssd doesn't FIT in the new laptop
<jcastro> I need to jiggle stuff
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> Some new form-factor?
<snap-l> Also, I'm naming whatever band we come up with "Focus Follows Mouse"
<jcastro> I think the drive is thinner
<jcastro> but, the intel ssd has a removable cover
<jcastro> which I am removing
<snap-l> Wonder if it's removable just for that purpose
<rick_h_> yea, there are two 'sizes' there
<rick_h_> it's stupid but true
<rick_h_> so the intel comes with an outer to fill the size of a larger opening
<snap-l> Seriously? That's stupid
<rick_h_> I think it's 2 vs 3 platter thing
<rick_h_> 3 platter 2.5" drives are just a hair thicker
<rick_h_> while 2 platter are a hair thinner
<rick_h_> and you don't want the drive shaking around in there
<snap-l> On the surface that makes sense, but I still don't buy it. :)
<Wolfger> stupid? I was thinking "awesome"
<Wolfger> stupid that two different sizes exist
<Wolfger> awesome that Intel makes one SSD to fit either size
<snap-l> Wolfger: You work for chrysler, home of the 10 different air filter sizes.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yes, the Intel work-around is nice.
<Wolfger> I mean, as soon as you start talking laptops, throw any concept of "standard" out the window
<Wolfger> laptops are more or less by design incompatible with one another
<Wolfger> right down to the power brick
<snap-l> truth
<greg-g> spammer was removed from the list
<snap-l> tx, greg-g
<jrwren> are you talking 9.5mm v. 12mm 2.5" drives?
<jcastro> whatever size the newest intel ssd is
<jrwren> 310?
<krondor> anyone know much about HP Proliant Support Pack on Ubuntu/Debian?
<jcastro> jrwren: 510
<jrwren> hrm, it says its 9.4mm
<jrwren> strange that it doesn' fit.
<jrwren> what drive were you removing?
<snap-l> Damn conference calls
<snap-l> http://merlyn.posterous.com/oracle-v-google-should-make-people-think-twic
<rick_h_> nice of him to catch up to the news from last aug
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> thought there was something new
<Milyardo> He's also comppletely wrong with his assertion
<snap-l> Milyardo: How so?
<Milyardo> Oracle can't just sue anyone using Java, Oracle useing Google over a Java implmentation has nothing to do with users of the JVM
<snap-l> And this is a problem
<snap-l> If someone wanted to re-implement Perl or Python, they're free to do so
<Milyardo> And then patent that reimplementation and sue if anyone implments in a similar manner
<snap-l> Which is bullshit
<Milyardo> It is, but its no more or less than any other Patent dispute
<snap-l> That's really where this falls apart
<snap-l> I just find it amusing that all of the anti-mono haters are seeing their doomsday scenario play out, but with Oracle / Java as the instigators.
<snap-l> afaik, Microsoft hasn't sued anyone over .Net implementation
<Milyardo> Where's the doomsday scenario, Google just reimplents dalvik to something not covered by the patents
<brousch> yet
<Milyardo> probably to something similar to hwo IcedTea works
<Milyardo> I guess thats pretty bad
<Milyardo> OpenJDK is pretty suck
<snap-l> I mean the Mono doomsday scenario
<Milyardo> IMO Sun probably would have done the same thing, they weren't too fond of Java forks either, at least ones that change how to language is written
<snap-l> that Microsoft would somehow kill mono / Linux because of patents
<Milyardo> which Dalvik does
<snap-l> Wifi dongle arrived
<snap-l> Hah, works right out of the box with Natty.
<snap-l> <#
<snap-l> <3
<Milyardo> Epic Wifi Win
<snap-l> Hah
<snap-l> Got it on my desktop machine
<snap-l> and it connected.
<Wolfger> no more Narwhal hate?
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/351/
<snap-l> Not with a $15 adapter
<snap-l> Though I haven't had a problem with wifi and natty
<brousch> natty fixed my eeepc wifi that had been broken starting with 9.10
<snap-l> It does get insanely hot, though
<snap-l> âââ
 * snap-l wonders if we should put in a dice bot
<jrwren> Oracle can sue anyone using java. they simply revoke the patent license and sue for patent infringement. they are fere to do this without warning at any time.
<snap-l> fere?
<jrwren> free.
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> i make tuypes.
<jrwren> typoes
<binbrain> wonder about the specifics of the patents
<rick_h_> thought a judge threw out all but 3 or something
<rick_h_> http://androidandme.com/2011/05/news/judge-orders-oracle-to-toss-out-most-of-the-patent-claims-against-google/
<Milyardo> Wonder how the judge so many so quickly, were most of them really that irrelevent?
<binbrain> so the copyrights aren't a big problem I'm guessing, since those cover specific implementations, no?
<rick_h_> well that original thing was aug of last that, that one if from may
<rick_h_> it's not like this is all in the last 3wk
<Milyardo> "Android is very popular now, and Oracle â just like Microsoft â wants a piece of that action. But instead of making a better product and innovating, companies like Oracle just do what they do best, release their army of lawyers and sue until they get what they want." When was Oracle in competition with Google?
<jrwren> (C) is not a problem at all.
<jrwren> just stop calling anything "Java" (TM)
<jrwren> unless they change their ilcense on (C) stuff
<jrwren> ah ehll, I don't know.
<snap-l> Milyardo: Oracle gets licenses for all of the phones, iirc
<snap-l> So Google making Java phones without paying for Java is anathema to Oracle
<snap-l> So, it's not about protecting property, it's all about the Benjamins.
<jrwren> always
<Milyardo> The quote was implying Orcale was using the lawsuit to stifle competition, which didn't make any sense
<jrwren> we are in the dark ages.
<jrwren> we need te get to rennasaince
<Milyardo> Mircosoft is a competitor
<Milyardo> Oracle is not
<snap-l> Milyardo: Bullshit
<snap-l> Oracle is a competitor
<jrwren> oh snap!
<snap-l> they bought Sun, and have a dog in making Linux irrelevant
<_stink_> oh snap, snap-l!
<snap-l> Oracle is as much of a competitor as Microsoft
<snap-l> Sun was making inroads into helping FLOSS, but unfortunately at the cost of their own oxygen supply
<snap-l> and now we have Oracle, who wants desperately to snuff out a phone market that doesn't have their tech on it
<snap-l> and a database market that doesn't have their shit-grinning representatives selling you it
<snap-l> and a server market that doesn't have SPARC running it
<snap-l> So saying that Oracle isn't a competitor is frankly crap
<snap-l> I'm no Microsoft apologist, but they're getting unfairly beaten up for something they haven't done
<snap-l> And Oracle is getting a free-pass
<Milyardo> I don't see how thats an arguement for establishing Oracle as a Competitor to Google, google sells a mobile phone platform, Oracle sells a JVM, to make thier platform Google made thier own JVM, which for Oracle beilives Googles still owes them money. Google isn't going an relicening Dalvik to Apple, that was would make them a distributor of JVMs on mobile phones and a competitor to Oracle.
<Milyardo> *to Apple or any other phone maker
<snap-l> Milyardo: How many Android phones are sold nowadays compared with Nokia phones?
<snap-l> or Blackberry phones?
<rick_h_> 2!
<Milyardo> How is that relevent?
<snap-l> Each one of those sales is a lost JVM license.
<snap-l> That is why they are a competitor
<snap-l> Oracle is seeig the Java phone market eroding
<snap-l> and the only way they can compete effectively is by trying to kill off the Android platform or make Google pay for the privilege.
<Milyardo> Attempting to kill off Android is unlikely Orcales goal, they more are more likely just interested in being paid for liceses to which they believe they are owed
<snap-l> I don't see Oracle as being that nuanced, but you're probably right.
<Milyardo> Once Google however makes an attempt to sell Dalvik to RIM, then they are a direct competitor to Oracle
<Milyardo> which I don't ever see Google doing
<snap-l> I think you have an interesting view of competition. :)
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> " just interested in being paid for liceses to which they believe they are owed"  just like MSFT and TomTom, RIGHT?
<snap-l> Yeah, because the FAT filesystem is worthy of patent protection
<snap-l> Honestly, I still await the court case that makes software patents completely useless.
<greg-g> anyone else had weird panel issues on external monitors with natty, eg: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73690784/Unity-TopBar-missing.png
<greg-g> (my bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/798933 )
<brousch> greg-g: only when not mirroring
<greg-g> brousch: so, your answer is yes :)
<jcastro> I opnly get them when mirroring
<jcastro> greg-g: that one's fixed, it's in the next set of updates
<jcastro> oh no wait, that one's different
<jcastro> snap-l: ok done with the new laptop and the swap, as expected windows flips out so I'm going to have to reinstall, I can do that, were you thinking of linking up today?
<brousch> i get my second monitor totally black and won't render any windows, but the panel is visible. sometimes on my main monitor there is a black bar about as big as the launcher
<greg-g> ugh, self important people
<snap-l> I can't hear you over my brilliance.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-18
<brousch> help me test my project. go here and upload random files http://waznex-dev.clusterbleep.net/
<brousch> who did the cat?
<Blazeix> me. I uploaded some random images from http://placekitten.com/
<brousch> ah, one was very skinny
<brousch> i wondered if it was sent that way
<Blazeix> yeah, I was playing around with random dimensions. 'cause I'm a jerk.
<brousch> thanks
<brousch> it seemed to handle them well enough
<brousch> now that i think about it, many simultaneous posts shouldn't occur often. it will get a crapload of views every 30mins though
<brousch> hm, whose kid would be wearing an ugly bears shirt?
<rick_h_> bwuhahahaha
<rick_h_> sharp looking little man if I say so
<rick_h_> and I do!
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/17/charting-twilios-growth-over-the-last-year-and-the-price-drops-that-helped/ you heard/know of these guys?
<rick_h_> seems up your alley
<brousch> this thing seems quite robust, even in a crusty environment like dreamhost
<rick_h_> awesome
<brousch> i wrote a script to jam uploads into it, and refreshed repeatedly while the uploads were going and it didn't hiccup
<brousch> does 100 views and 2 or 3 writes in a 5 minute span seem like something i should be concerned about optimising for?
<brousch> hm, i'm even serving the images through flask. haven't set up serving through apache
<brousch> i suspect i'm worrying too much about this
<snap-l> I've not heard of twilio until now
<snap-l> though it seems similar
<snap-l> Though there's no API for making calls with what I'm working o
<snap-l> n
<snap-l> Our stuff is more server-side
<snap-l> Evening
<greg-g> conference call at 10pm? yes please!
<greg-g> </sarcasm>
<rick_h_> wow, suckyu
<snap-l> Who the hell decided that one?
<greg-g> definitely not me
<greg-g> bbiab
<greg-g> just finished
<rick_h_> ouch, hope that was worth it
<rick_h_> west coast driven?
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> grumble, stupid cron
<rick_h_> I hate it when a script works fine when manually runs, but has issues from cron
<jrwren> probably some zsh nonsense ;p
<rick_h_> hah, must be
<snap-l> Yeah, figuring out environment variables and such are a real pain
<rick_h_> well I'm copying to s3 3 files
<rick_h_> run manually all thre make it
<rick_h_> from cron, only the first one
<snap-l> How are you copying them? rsync or cp?
<rick_h_> I could see it if they all failed or something
<rick_h_> python script
<snap-l> Is rsync available to you?
<rick_h_> calling out to /usr/bin/python s3script/filename
<rick_h_> can't rsync to s3
<snap-l> Bummer
<rick_h_> without doing s3fs funky stuff
<rick_h_> there we go, bmark.us db is now dumped and copied to s3 twice a day
<jrwren> and rsync and s3fs is probably a bad idea, because then you are reading hte whole file from s3 just so you only have to write less.
<jrwren> might as well just write at that point
<snap-l> <#
<snap-l> <3
<snap-l> Squeezebox is synchronized to my computer speakers, living room, and iPhone
<snap-l> All playing the same song at exactly the same time
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> link plz.
<jrwren> oh, hardware.
<jrwren> what does it use? just DNLA ?
<snap-l> jrwren: It uses it's own server software
<snap-l> written in Perl
<rick_h_> wheee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-19
<brousch> i got a nook color for father's . this this is dangerous to my wallet
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> awesome
<Scott_L> do you have angry birds running on it yet?
<greg-g> rick_h_: re: conf call last night. Worth it? It really seems like it! and yeah, west coast issue
<jjesse> brousch do you like it?
<jrwren> greg-g: which workshare?
<greg-g> jrwren: http://www.twocreeksorganics.com/
<greg-g> in Manchester
<greg-g> good peeps, about 3-4 years old as a farm. totally organic. 3 people (wife+husband+wife's brother) who are nice as hell
<greg-g> plus, doing a work share means we A) save that money and B) get to pick our share fresh! :)
<jcastro> greg-g: are you running for a board again?
<rick_h_> I second the nomination
<snap-l> Howdy
<rick_h_> snap-l: also votest yes
<rick_h_> votes that is
<snap-l> Sure, if it's making greg-g do more work on our behalf, I'm all for it
<snap-l> Also got a chance to play some Dropkick Murphys for my dad
<snap-l> (picked up The Meanest of Times on disc at Barnes and Noble)
<snap-l> Not sure if he liked it or not
<brousch> i'm loving the nook color so far. we'll see how it performs in the car today
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, the membership review board for the americas
<greg-g> brousch: cool!
<jrwren> what OS did you install on nook color?
<jrwren> greg-g: awesome about the CSA. we just buy share from Zilke down here in Milan.
<jrwren> but we've gotten to know Tom and Vicki a bit this year and we bought 2 shares this year :)
<jrwren> they treat us pretty nice.
<brousch> jrwren: it's still stock right now. i want to see how it works by design
<brousch> i can drag and drop pdfs to it
<snap-l> Happy Father's Day to all of the fathers and father figures
<rick_h_> woo! got a nice card and got the morning to myself
<rick_h_> most awesome
<rick_h_> http://octodex.github.com/#poptocat
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/metallica-monopoly-gameboard
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-11
<snap-l> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Map <- Javascript is a fucked up language
<snap-l> NaN can also be used as a key. Even though every NaN is not equal to itself (NaN !== NaN is true), the following example works, because NaNs are indistinguishable from each other:
<snap-l> Also note that JavaScript has two zero values, +0 and -0. These two zero values are treated as different keys in Maps:
<snap-l> I swear, someone from PHP is twiddling the levers
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> *sigh* of course django and wsgi doesn't play nice together. wtf...
<snap-l> That's not the django way; playing nice with other python packages.
<brousch> Other packages are privileged to have the opportunity to work with Django. They should Djangofy themselves to work well with it.
<brousch> And good morning
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> well I'm cheating like a banshee, but it seems to be working
<rick_h> just two years old, un touched, never published django module that will allow me to turn a wsgi app into a freaking django view
<nullspace> https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2012/06/11/cve-2012-2122-a-tragically-comedic-security-flaw-in-mysql
<nullspace> I pitty the fool that leave 3306 open to the public as they are already pwned
<rick_h> ssh tunnels ftw
<nullspace> indeed
<nullspace> still it's scary
<rick_h> man, yard work soreness in effect today...ugh curse your monday!
<brousch> Yeah, I could use a massage
<snap-l> good morning again
<rick_h> morn
<brousch> You get one "Good morning." That is all.
<snap-l> heh
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/Bookie-Android because just because
<brousch> Is it in the app store?
<derekv> no this is just a shell project
<derekv> i started it in the middle of the night last night
<rick_h> oooh
 * rick_h likey
<rick_h> man, if you can just get me an intent out of that I'd be a happy camper
<derekv> but with android, I _could_ put submit it to google play
<rick_h> you coming to CHC wed?
<rick_h> We'll chat :)
<derekv> rick_h, soon, very soon
<rick_h> derekv: that'd rock man.
<derekv> rick_h, atm I plan on it
<rick_h> derekv: ok very cool
<derekv> First I just want to display a list of user bookmarks, just to get started.  But I agree the intent is going to be the most useful thing.
<rick_h> yea, no this is awesome. A list with filter, readable loader, and intent are really the only 3 bits that would make it really useful
<rick_h> then the whole parsing/readable mode gets a ton more useful on the throne :)
<brousch> ew
<rick_h> except for brousch, where it'd break into his angry birds time :P
<brousch> I refresh my Listen podcats. It takes like 1 minute. Get in, do your thing, get out.
<derekv> huh, there's a detroit lispers meetup.
<brousch> Make sure it's for the language and not for people with a speech impediment
<derekv> it is for the language.
<derekv> it is not overly large
<derekv> one attendee is a spam account.
<derekv> out of six
<derekv> detroit lambda lounge looks a bit more active
<derekv> also its newish
<derekv> may
<MaskedDriver> rick_h, you there?
<rick_h> yep
<MaskedDriver> javascript question if you have a sec
<rick_h> shoot
<MaskedDriver> ok.. so I'm doing a timeclock report where the actual time is set by 100 minutes, and then the paid time is done by quarters (0, 25, 50, 75)
<MaskedDriver> I'm taking the actual time, say 41.90 and converting it to the paid time 41.75
<MaskedDriver> SOME instances of say .90 when I split the string turns into 9, other times it comes out to 90 like it should
<MaskedDriver> do you have any idea why it might do that?
<MaskedDriver> same with .20, .30, .40, etc..
<MaskedDriver> some of them come out to 20, 30, 40, 50, other times it comes out 2, 3, 4, 5
<rick_h> well trailing 0's don't matter. So you'll need to printf it
<MaskedDriver> I don't know why some would do that and others wouldn't
<MaskedDriver> the split shows that some of them show up as 90000000001
<MaskedDriver> it's doing weird stuff
<rick_h> yea, float math in JS is a mess
<rick_h> honestly, I'd split on the ., then do a <> case statement with the remainder
<MaskedDriver> right, but preceding 0's don't matter either, so if I just add 0's to the end of single digit numbers, the 06, 07, 08 would end up 60 70 80
<MaskedDriver> then I have the same problem, only in reverse
<rick_h> how so? I'm missing something then I guess
<MaskedDriver> 06 == 6
<MaskedDriver> 60 == 6
<MaskedDriver> that's what it's doing
<rick_h> right, but you want 06?
<rick_h> huh?
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> so if you have an int 60, you're getting 6?
<MaskedDriver> yes
<rick_h> this is not .60, but 60
<rick_h> what are you doing to the number?
<MaskedDriver> I'm splitting the string by the decimal point
<rick_h> parseInt()?
<MaskedDriver> so say 41.90.toString().split('.')
<rick_h> oh bah yea that's no good
<MaskedDriver> what do you suggest I do then?
<rick_h> sec
<MaskedDriver> 41.90 would round to 41.75, 41.97 would round to 42.00
<rick_h> sure thing, sec
<MaskedDriver> not clean but I got it
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/689/ MaskedDriver
<rick_h> something like that, untested, etc
<rick_h> check out the underscore string for the sprintf
<rick_h> or rip it from the original source: http://www.diveintojavascript.com/projects/javascript-sprintf
<MaskedDriver> I see what you're doing
<MaskedDriver> I'll give that a try
<MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/690/
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: so here's teh deal, .split() is a string method
<MaskedDriver> this ended up working ok for me
<rick_h> any time you want to get a number out of a string, use parseInt parseFloat
<MaskedDriver> right
<rick_h> if you don't do it yourself, you leave your self open to strange bugs
<MaskedDriver> hang on
<MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/sILIgVHsq7DyAEfUkiHB/
<MaskedDriver> this ended up working correctly for me regardless of if it's .09 or .90
<rick_h> right, but what if the value is 901
<rick_h> .901
<MaskedDriver> it cannot be
<MaskedDriver> it's rounded to the 10ths
<MaskedDriver> via PHP
<rick_h> it's a string input, I can make it .901 all I want client side :)
<MaskedDriver> and the javascript is just doing the math of the original values
<MaskedDriver> hundredths sorry
<MaskedDriver> it's .00 = .99
<MaskedDriver> .00 - .99
<rick_h> why are you doing find(".hours").each() but it's only one of them?
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: right, but just saying the value can be manipulated client side, but meh thats' just nitpicking I guess
<MaskedDriver> total == the summation of all of the raw hours
<MaskedDriver> per person
<rick_h> oic, += my bad
<snap-l> I know I have a reputation for trying to change the problem to fit a solution, but wouldn't it be better to do that computation server-side instead of on the client?
<rick_h> never! :P
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> I thought about that too
<snap-l> At least you'd have consistency instead of someone getting bizarre reporting because of JS errors
<snap-l> or worse, having JS turned off entirely.
<MaskedDriver> this is an internal report
<MaskedDriver> we have absolute control over what they have on their browser... if they turn javascript off, they get in trouble
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: I understand that. Do you want to hve to fix the report because IE9+ does something different next rev?
<rick_h> amd please tell me you've got some var love in there :)
<MaskedDriver> tons of var love
<rick_h> ok
<MaskedDriver> every variable you see in the code is defined before that .each loop
<rick_h> ok
<MaskedDriver> and then unset between each person
<MaskedDriver> I'll take a look at a server-side implementation as well, but javascript was the quickest, easiest solution
<rick_h> if it's var'd at the top of a function you don't need to unset
<snap-l> I think you'll be happier server-side in the long-run
<MaskedDriver> and they needed this report yesterday. Originally, each day's time was rounded, cause that's how they told me they did it
<MaskedDriver> but in reality, they round the week
<snap-l> as rick_h pointed out earlier, floats in JS are a royal pain in the ass
<MaskedDriver> I have 2 columns, total and total2, total is the unrounded, total2 is the rounded
<rick_h> yea, but honestly he doesn't need a float. Just strings. I'd just sprintf("0.2f") the original numbers, and then treat them as strings the rest of the time
<snap-l> and like royalty, it's passed down from generation to generation
<MaskedDriver> then all I had to do is get the summation of each
<MaskedDriver> that was much easier
<snap-l> rick_h: If you're converting floats in to strings in order to get around a broken implementation, I can't help you. :)
<snap-l> One other thought: convert to int by multiplying by 100, trunc, and then do the rounding
<MaskedDriver> why so angry snap-l? :p
<MaskedDriver> the problem is the rounding is so frickin stupid
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: I'm a very angry man when it comes to Javascript. ;)
<MaskedDriver> if it was nice even rounding based on realistic numbers, I would
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: I'd argue that doing computation in Javascript is likewise very stupid. ;)
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: you know parseFloat has no second param right?
<rick_h> so you don't need the two sums
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> realized that
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/692/
<rick_h> that's closer to what I'd pull off :)
<rick_h> cut out 30% of the LoC
<MaskedDriver> yeah, did that already :)
<MaskedDriver> step one: make it work, step two: clean it up :)
<rick_h> yea, sorry, can't help myself
<MaskedDriver> I like what you did in 1-3
<rick_h> ok, time to pack up and head to the coffee shop for second shift
<MaskedDriver> awesome. Thanks for the help
<snap-l> if anyone is looking for ideas for me for Christmas: http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2012/06/07/3143/Neil-Pearts-red-Tama-drum-kit-up-for-auction
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: np, always love some debugging/refactoring
<rick_h> heh, where's the laptop headed now, CN -> JP -> ...
<rick_h> oh django... Exception Value:	
<rick_h> serve() takes at least 2 arguments (2 given)
<snap-l> rick_h: Welcome to the djangoverse
<snap-l> where down is up, up is left, and 2 != 2
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: I went ahead and took care of it server-side
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: paultag talked me into using django
<rick_h> ugh, next time you see him send him this way
<MaskedDriver> lol, I told him to come talk to you
<MaskedDriver> he must be scared
<MaskedDriver> then he brought up how you hate everything awesome except awesome ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol or maybe I did
<rick_h> hey, we had some great talks on python, vim, awesome
<rick_h> we're actually pretty good on a variety of topics
<MaskedDriver> that's what he was saying
<rick_h> was awesome to catch up with him at pycon this year
<MaskedDriver> yeah, he won't be making it to OLF this year
<rick_h> boooo, but he's out in MA right?
<rick_h> so not completely surprised
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> moved back almost a year ago I think
<MaskedDriver> he got yelled at the other day for swearing in channel by some person lol it was great
<rick_h> oh he's back?
<rick_h> I didn't realize that, thought he was still out east
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> back out to Boston
<rick_h> oh, back to boston, gotcha
<MaskedDriver> from Cleveland
<rick_h> right, ok got you backwards there
<MaskedDriver> np
<rick_h> dammit django is pissing me off today
<MaskedDriver> I'll go ping paul and have him come set you straight ;)
<rick_h> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/templates/api/#django.template.RequestContext "Django comes with a special Context class, django.template.RequestContext, that acts slightly differently than the normal django.template.Context. "
<rick_h> ooooh, I can have context or request context...what's the diff...oh, the second one adds vars to my template...and has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY REQUEST
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> well how do I use this fair RequestContent...by changing every line of every method I want...*sigh*
<MaskedDriver> he's not responding
<MaskedDriver> prob out to lunch
<rick_h> heh, that's ok.
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: You're welcome. ;)
<MaskedDriver> it was far more difficult and I still had to split the float like a stupid person
<snap-l> Wha?
<MaskedDriver> if only we would round with decency
<MaskedDriver> had to split the time in hours and minutes
<MaskedDriver> then do the rounding based on the minutes
<snap-l> Oh, that sucks
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<snap-l> rounding time is a real PITA
<MaskedDriver> for example .21 - .45 == .25
<MaskedDriver> .46 - .70 = .50
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2480637/round-minute-down-to-nearest-quarter-hour
<MaskedDriver> that's all well and good if that's what I was doing
<MaskedDriver> the original time is 100 minute hours
<snap-l> Yeah
<Milyardo> Floating point numbers and time do not mix
<MaskedDriver> not at all
<snap-l> Though I'd love to know the rationale behind 100 minute hours. ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol trust me.. I asked
<MaskedDriver> it makes it easier to steal 15 minutes from your employees ;)
<snap-l> Trust me, the employees are stealing it back
<MaskedDriver> a lot harder when you punch in and out
<MaskedDriver> the difference between .94 and .96 is 3 minutes
<snap-l> Always amuses me when companies try to one-up their employees
<snap-l> you have a LOT of creative folks.
<MaskedDriver> so if I punch out 3 minutes early, instead of rounding to the nearest hour, it rounds down to .75
<snap-l> Right, so you'll have a queue of employees waiting for the clock to roll over
<snap-l> or they'll "go slow" to get to the clock. ;)
<Milyardo> With time(or and unit of measure that's not base 10) it's best to only store values in the smallest unit of measure possible
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm posting this now so you'll have it as a reference for when you eventually go this route: http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/uvfbw/learning_dvorak_what_changes_should_i_make_to_my/
<MaskedDriver> plus if you do things by .25, it makes multiplying the per/hour value much easier
<MaskedDriver> 10:15 * xx != real number but 10.25 * xx == real number
<Milyardo> You will be much better off if you only perform time arithmetic in seconds, and only covery to minutes/hours for presentation.
<Milyardo> and god forbid mixing units of measure in athe same expression
<rick_h> snap-l: :)
<MaskedDriver> Milyardo: you assume this is a perfect world where stupidity doesn't exist
<MaskedDriver> I have to work around payroll's system, not the other way around
<Milyardo> I don't see why you can't convert all input into the same unit of measure before performing arithemtic with it still
<rick_h> oh son of a @!#$#@$#@$#@$
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: paultag sends his greets
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: what's the problem now?
<rick_h> so I change my code, use a RequestContext, and still no worky
<rick_h> so I start dumping data, 'is the debug context processor enabled....yes'
<rick_h> so now wtf, I've changed my code, looks like the docs, docs say this puts the DEBUG setting into your template context, but I still don't have it at all
<rick_h> so go open egg/django...tempalte_contexts and look at the dippy source
<rick_h> if settings.DEBUG and request.META.get('REMOTE_ADDR') in settings.INTERNAL_IPS:
<rick_h> well wtf is INTERNAL_IPS? oh...an empty tuple...well that makes sense...NOT!
<rick_h> so docs suck, code sucks, and this damn RequestContext BS sucks so I'm getting cranky
<rick_h> :)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> and all I hear is snotty little django-nauts going "it's so easy, the docs are so good, everything 'just works'"
<paultag> rick_h: it's so easy, the docs are so good, everything 'just works'
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> he responded to my ping
<rick_h> hah!
<rick_h> so it was paul's voice I was hearing, couldn't place it
<MaskedDriver> :)
<MaskedDriver> he's very proud of himself at this very moment
<rick_h> yea, that was good stuff
<MaskedDriver> lol
<paultag> rick_h: your boy MaskedDriver sold you out :)
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> sounds like he's more your boy
<paultag> OH 4 lyfe :)
<rick_h> and $#@$#@ Django :)
<paultag> rick_h: Is this for bookie?
<rick_h> no, work
<MaskedDriver> :)
<paultag> ah, gotcha
<rick_h> I'd never use django of my own free will :)
<paultag> django can suck pretty bad sometimes
<paultag> I was ranting about it over lunch today
<rick_h> but it's canonical standard these days
<rick_h> let me know if you never need any amunition
<paultag> yessir
<MaskedDriver> lol
<paultag> rick_h: my django project right now has templates spread over 2 repos, with 2K+ view files
<rick_h> ouch
<paultag> it pisses me off. Nothing should ever get past a KLOC with web programming
<paultag> plus, keeping two repos in sync is rough stuff
<rick_h> yea, no kidding
<rick_h> the way that stuff fits is a pita
<paultag> truth
<rick_h> I was working on combo loading my JS and dealing with which static dir, app code, etc
<paultag> uch
<paultag> I think I remember some of what you were saying from PyCon
<rick_h> now all I want is to know if the app is in debug mode so I can load the JS uncompressed if so
<rick_h> but getting that into every page viewed is turning into a mess
<paultag> yeah, I'm starting to remember this :)
<rick_h> naw, this is all new. I just started this app 3wk ago
<paultag> I remeber you were talking about a similar problem iirc
<paultag> same problems anyway
<rick_h> but anyway, just getting ranty.
<paultag> yar
<paultag> alright, back to djanhell :)
<MaskedDriver> yeah, I'm new to MI, came in here and first thing I saw was a rick rant
<paultag> rick_h: godspeed!
<MaskedDriver> thought it was awesome
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: you in waterford?
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<rick_h> paultag: have fun man
 * paultag mumbles
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: cool, sitting at the caribou on Sashabaw down the street from DTE
<MaskedDriver> nice.. I'm in Pontiac right now working
<rick_h> gotcha, cool to know someone else up north of the main body
<MaskedDriver> definitely. I moved up here last June. I don't know anybody except for my girlfriend and her friends lol
<snap-l> Apparently Apple is refreshing their entire computer line
<rick_h> kind of needed it
<rick_h> what happens now that they're tied to intel
<rick_h> intel releases new chipset, get the new devices out or lose in the benchmark wars
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<snap-l> Well, they've made an incredibly thin macbook
<snap-l> âThe next gen MBP is 0.71-inches thin â you see the difference. Itâs 25% thinner, a dramatic amount. Itâs about as thin as a MacBook Air.â
<MaskedDriver> updating their Mac Pro for the first time in 200 years
<snap-l> Waiting for them to make it so thin, it'll need a special adapter to use USB.
<devinheitmueller> I'm just happy to hear they're not killing the Mac Pro.
<snap-l>  âItâs 15.4 inches across, but itâs pixel density â are you sitting down? Itâs 2880 x 1880, four times the amount of pixels.â
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: btw, I'm the one that just followed you on Twitter. paul linked me to your tweet
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: yea, that's where I saw the waterford
<rick_h> I'm clarkston
<MaskedDriver> ah-ha
<MaskedDriver> I spend a lot of time in Clarkston. The Union is phenominal
<rick_h> yea, good stuff
<MaskedDriver> I think I saw you at the OLF a couple years back
<rick_h> possibly, I go from time to time
<MaskedDriver> think you had a podcast booth up
<rick_h> ah yea, snap-l and I
<MaskedDriver> yeah, didn't know who you guys were so I stayed away in typical geek fashion
<snap-l> It's better that way. rick_h bites people he doesn't know.
<MaskedDriver> I don't doubt it
<MaskedDriver> nothing makes me code better than jamming out to Will Smith
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: your blog theme is messed up on the front page. The footer floats up to the top
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: running dev chrome?
<MaskedDriver> and firefox
<MaskedDriver> no.. not dev chrome, stable
<MaskedDriver> and IE9
<MaskedDriver> getting a lot of "data not received" stuff from chrome too
<MaskedDriver> you need a <div class="clear"></div> after <div class="primary">
<MaskedDriver> css floats anger me sometimes
<rick_h> yea, it's a theme issue
<rick_h> I don't know if I have control, looking now
<rick_h> the content loading was teh delicious plugin dying off, but I don't use that any longer anyway
<MaskedDriver> gotcha
<MaskedDriver> if you're gonna be rocking out wordpress you should self-host that
<rick_h> meh, got sick of updating it dealing with server migration/etc
<MaskedDriver> gotcha
<rick_h> honestly, my dream is to go static generator, but not taken up the time
<MaskedDriver> *shrugs* I'll host it for you if want something
<MaskedDriver> can't guarantee 99.99% uptime though :(
<rick_h> heh, that's ok. I've got stuff spread over 3 servers already (not counting the two at home)
<MaskedDriver> lol np
<rick_h> oh you've got to be kidding me...
<brousch> nope
<greg-g> Fucking. Ubuntu. Unity.
<MaskedDriver> lol
<greg-g> sorry, it is just always in my way. Today it is forgetting that I told it to do list view in nautilus. All the time. Even though I set the "default for new folders" setting
<greg-g> POS
 * brousch breaks out the blue hairspray
<greg-g> I'm loving Debian land on my personal laptop. Might have to jump ship on the work one as well. (Since Ubuntu broke gnome-shell and I'm not a huge fan of KDE)
<brousch> What do you use on Debian? Gnme shell?
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> Might as well move to Debian
<brousch> We'll still love you
<Milyardo> Nautilus sucks no matter what distro/de you move to imo
<Milyardo> and gfvs needs to die in a DBus dispatched fire
<Milyardo> so it would burn slowly, and painfully
<Blazeix> am i allowed to talk about WWDC in here, or is that a permaban? :)
<rick_h> at your own risk Blazeix :P
<brousch> What is WWDC?
<rick_h> I've been ignoring it mostly thankfully
<Blazeix> because 2880 x 1800 for $2199 is a pretty cool pricepoint
<Blazeix> brousch: the mac conference thing
<brousch> Is that thing happeneing again?
<brousch> Pretty expensive when you can get 2560x1440 for $850
<Blazeix> brousch: on a laptop?
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, I'll be jealous of that resolution for a while. I've been hoping they'd do it though and force everyone else to jump on board
<rick_h> about time we got our of this hell of HDTV is enough for anyone crap
<rick_h> greg-g: there are legit issues from picking up the boy wrong and such, heads up.
<rick_h> greg-g: wife had to go see the doc and get trained on proper ways to pick up so as to help with elbow/arm/wrist issues she was having
<snap-l> greg-g: list-view in Nautilus is for Windows weenies.
<brousch> Blazeix: OK, I thought you meant a big monitor. That on a laptop is frickin awesome
<brousch> On the new MBP "The FireWire and ethernet ports are now officially gone, too."
<greg-g> snap-l: wait, you like huge ass wasted space icons? Or are you sayig I should only use the CLI for file management :)
<brousch> Really, no ethernet port? WTF
<greg-g> rick_h: I might have to check that out
<Milyardo> Yeah, Ethernet is officially outmoded now. You use the cloud to connect instead of the internet.
<Milyardo> Even if that is a joke, I disgust myself for actually typing that
<brousch> I bet they will sell you a USB3 ethernet dongle for $40
<MaskedDriver> $59.99
<MaskedDriver> $40 is too cheap for the Apple name
<MaskedDriver> everything is marked up 275%
<Milyardo> That's without Premium AppleCare 3 year Warranty
<Milyardo> oh man
<MaskedDriver> indeed
<Milyardo> AppleCare is real, I totally made that up
<Milyardo> oh it's AppleCare+ now apperently
 * snap-l just set up two-factor auth with Google.
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: have fun with phones and crap with that
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not as simple as it might first appear.
<MaskedDriver> I had it for about a week but waiting for an e-mail or having to go to a link every time I wanted to log in to something was annoying
<brousch> I lasted less than 1 day on it
<MaskedDriver> yeah.. it's pretty terrible
<MaskedDriver> good idea on desktop, terrible on mobile
 * snap-l also thinks he screwed up his battery last night
<MaskedDriver> I have 2 android phones and a Xyboard
<MaskedDriver> dealing with that for everything makes me a sad panda
<snap-l> left an application accidentally running overnight. This morning my phone was noticibly hot
<MaskedDriver> :(
<snap-l> and now my battery life is half what it should be.
<MaskedDriver> that sucks
<brousch> MaskedDriver: When I tried it I had an android phone, and android tablet, a Chromebook, and 2 laptops. It was hell
<MaskedDriver> brousch: ouch
<MaskedDriver> the laptop thing didn't bother me as much as my phones and tablet
 * brousch sings it's half the charge it used to be 
 * snap-l will check tonight with the phone off to see if it really damaged the battery
<MaskedDriver> meh... is the phone under warranty?
<snap-l> It is, but it's also $49 for a new batter with external charger.
<snap-l> so I'm not going to sweat a warranty claim because I'm stupid.
<brousch> Heh, can't even upgrade your RAM or storage on the new MBP
<brousch> Geez
<devinheitmueller> brousch: it's all a question of whether that actually matters.  99% of all laptop users never upgrade either.
<rick_h> devinheitmueller: I'd argue a much larger percent than the 1% of mac users have bought with min ram and upgraded themselves
<rick_h> same with thinkpad owners/etc
<rick_h> 16gb of ram is a $500 option for my thinkpad, it's half that if I buy ram dims myself
<devinheitmueller> It's the same reason that many cars cannot have consumer replacable sparkplugs.  Some mechanically inclined people will say "how outrageous!", while the other 99% of people will say, "Who gives a shit?"
<rick_h> history shows the same for apple hardware
<brousch> I buy used and upgrade myself. Brought this MBP from 2GB with 160GB HD to 8GB and 120GB SSD
<devinheitmueller> brousch: yup, you're in the 1%.
<rick_h> now, after initial purchase, I'm sure that 1% is more like those that upgrade
<brousch> devinheitmueller: Forget the spark plugs. Subaru wants $300+ for a new key
<rick_h> brousch: heh, same everywhere
<rick_h> had the same thing with a GM and a Ford
<brousch> IT'S A GORRAM KEY
<rick_h> with more sparts in it than my old HP calc probably :)
<rick_h> smarts that is
<brousch> That's the kind of thing that makes me think RMS isn't so crazy after all
<MaskedDriver> I wish you could put some hidden code into a CSV file to tell Excel to bold a column
<rick_h> ok, beat this damn pony into lunchmeat...
<brousch> Ah, feels so good to be back in Flaskland
<rick_h> man, wife's coworker looking for a home for an 8yr rotty with some arthritis...so hard to say no...ugh
<brousch> I wouldn't bring a new big dog into a house with a little kid. Too much unpredictability
<MaskedDriver> brousch: depends on how the dog was raised
<rick_h> yea, but man...dreamed of a rot for years and years. For me it's always been the boy, a rot at my feet, and a nice screened in porch
<MaskedDriver> I personally wouldn't bring a dog into the house... period... under no circumstances
<rick_h> but yea, I told her I can't trust any dog not raised by me with the boy
<brousch> Bah, we have  2 big dogs (55lbs and 70lbs), but we raised them and know them
<rick_h> yea, not everyone does it right unfortunately
<brousch> Even if you do it right, changing houses and such is stressful on a dog
<MaskedDriver> cats can be trusted
<MaskedDriver> just saying
<brousch> Cats are evil
<rick_h> cats can be lunch
<rick_h> need to be lunch
<MaskedDriver> brousch: because they're genious
<MaskedDriver> they have been plotting their revenge for centuries
<rick_h> worst mistake I ever made was thinking it'd help the wife by getting cats
<rick_h> should have left her lonely
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: elaborate?
<brousch> The only reason a cat is better is that a 3 year old has a chance of beating it up
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: sorry, wife worked long hours in residency so we got cats for her to come home to
<rick_h> now I wish they'd just run away, hate cats
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: still not seeing the problem
<MaskedDriver> sounds like a win-win
<rick_h> cats suck
<MaskedDriver> your wife has cats
<MaskedDriver> and you have balls to kick around the house
<rick_h> yea, fortunately they can be trained to leave the room when I enter it
<MaskedDriver> yeah.. train a dog to do that
<MaskedDriver> I've been trying with my brother's dogs for years
<rick_h> don't have to, dogs don't suck and need to leave the room
<rick_h> and they listen to commands, like lay, stay, and leave it
<MaskedDriver> so do cats
<MaskedDriver> if you train them properly at a young age
<MaskedDriver> and if you don't get a stupid cat
<rick_h> yea, well when I can train cats to "don't puke hairballs on my carpet" and "if you claw me again while I sleep because you're hungry you'll regret it"
<rick_h> I'll rethink the matter
<MaskedDriver> i have one stupid cat that understands 2 things: 1) I'm being petted, I'm happy, 2) I'm not being petted, I'm sad
<MaskedDriver> my other cat understands sit, lay, stay, stop, i'll kill you, go away, stand up, speak
<MaskedDriver> do you own a brush?
<MaskedDriver> problem one solved
<rick_h> yes, but I don't want to have to brush them. Maint. is the wife's duty.
<MaskedDriver> do you own a nail clipper? problem two solved
<rick_h> all the cats are the wife's duty
<MaskedDriver> lol then she needs trained better it seems ;)
<rick_h> well if it wasn't for her they'd be swamp cats
<MaskedDriver> http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/humor/otherhumor/dog_cat_diary.htm
<brousch> My wife is allergic to cats, so I have avoided the cat problem
<MaskedDriver> I'm allergic to cats, but I have 2 of them
<brousch> That is illogical. They must have already infested you with toxoplasma gondii
<MaskedDriver> wikipedia is my friend
<MaskedDriver> and yeah, I was born with it it seems
<MaskedDriver> what I love about cats is I can leave food in their bowl, scoop their litter once or twice a day and be done with them
<MaskedDriver> no taking them for walks
<MaskedDriver> picking their crap up off of the neighbor's yard, etc..
<rick_h> worthless
<jrwren> cats are OSX.
<jrwren> Dogs are Windows.
<jrwren> I like Penguins.
<rick_h> hah
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> no wonder i hate cats then
<MaskedDriver> thanks for contributing jrwren
<MaskedDriver> this cat bashing is making me sad
<MaskedDriver> you just haven't been around amazing cats before, apparently
<jrwren> i don't believe in giving room and board to anything that isn't blood relative.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: I'd rather have a cat than family in my house
<jrwren> to each his own
<MaskedDriver> my family can visit for about 2 hours then they need to gtfo and leave me to my video games
<jrwren> i really enjoy living with my wife and child. I'd hate only seeing them for 2hrs a day.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: wife isn't a blood relative (hopefully)
<brousch> jrwren: Child? I thought you had like 3 kids
<snap-l> Apparently I'm in trouble.
<snap-l> 3 packages today. ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> I'm hoping one of them is some SWAG for tomorrow's meeting
<snap-l> otherwise I'm in trouble. ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> nice
<snap-l> Well, one of them isn't what I think it might have been
<snap-l> so I'm probably in trouble anyway.
<snap-l> Oh well. That's the nice part about being in trouble - making up for it.
<jrwren> how do you know my wife isn't a blood relative? :)
<MaskedDriver> that's why I said (hopefully) lol
<MaskedDriver> welp.. time for me to head out for the day. catch you all later
<snap-l> well, as suspected, I'm in trouble.
<snap-l> but, on the plus side, got some goodies. :)
<snap-l> http://arcadeheroes.com/2012/06/01/atari-trivia-to-kick-off-atari-month/
<snap-l> I got 2/10
<snap-l> http://arcadeheroes.com/2012/06/11/atari-trivia-2-and-the-ultimate-atari-history-timeline/ <- 5/11
<snap-l> and got very close on some of the questions. ;)
<brousch> snap-l: Is anyone going to record rick_h's Make talk at MUG?
<rick_h> not if I can help it
<brousch> dangit
<rick_h> it's going to be pure driving a text editor though
<rick_h> so even a recording won't be great
<brousch> tough to record that
<brousch> unless you do a screencast
<snap-l> We're planning on getting gib a steadycam so he can stand 5ft in front of rick_h at all times. :)
<snap-l> with a spotlight
<brousch> I put my small camra on a tiny tripod
<rick_h> brousch: right, and that's not a bad idea, if I can reherse and get it down
<rick_h> make a screencast episode out of it, I'll have to think on it
<rick_h> snap-l: no, but I plan on being a PITA and asking him to turn the thing off for the record
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> rick_h: I can't stop you. :)
<brousch> get the man a decent camera!
<brousch> and a tripod!
<rick_h> no, make the man be quiet and listen like everyone else and stop destracting everyone else
<snap-l> Well, we've kicked around getting some better equipment for recording
<snap-l> since they're going up on Youtube, and making an impression about MUG
<brousch> Right
<brousch> What's the Python tool closest to Make?
<brousch> Fabric?
<rick_h> brousch: a little bit. You can use fabric like Make, but fabric is more meant for running commands on multiple remote hosts
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-12
<brousch> looks about the same for local stuff
<rick_h> yea, but it's built for remote
<rick_h> and doesn't have the built in dep checking/etc
<rick_h> rake in ruby and paver scons are probably closer
<rick_h> paver/scons in python
<brousch> I am liking Fabric. I can replace my usual scripts dir with one fabfile
<brousch> And it's python
<rick_h> yea, I ran half of morpace with fabric
<rick_h> I didn't do makefiles nutil joining canonical
<rick_h> anmd
<rick_h> and then came around that they're better for what I wanted to do
<brousch> I like to stick with pure python whenever possible. Makes it easier when I have to touch Windows
<rick_h> yea, it's a good in theory
<rick_h> but shell ispowerful, make can call python scripts, and one less dep to install, installing fabric can be a pita
<brousch> Why is that?
<brousch> I did have to install python-dev for it
<rick_h> yea, you need python-dev and some ssl stuff for the ssh client
<rick_h> and it takes time to compile/etc
<rick_h> nice thing is that with the makefile, you can wget that, and run make all and it'll setup the virtualenv, git clone the rpo, install all deps, copiy all settings/etc files, one command, one time
<rick_h> I love fabric though, good guys. I've got commits in there
<brousch> paver seems much messier
<MaskedDriver> brousch: thanks for approving me on Launchpad
<brousch> Ah-ha! Flask has it's own script thingy http://packages.python.org/Flask-Script/
<rick_h> this is like django management commands
<rick_h> not like make
<rick_h> or even fabric to an extent
<brousch> I can see why you like Make. It's a lot cleaner than these Python alternatives
<rick_h> the big thing is that make can detect if a file has changed, and only run a command if it needs to
<brousch> I need a pure Python Makefile runner ;)
<rick_h> so let's say you want to minify js, bookie's make commands only minify if the original .js files change
<rick_h> it's much smarter about things and has some cool concepts/shortcuts
<rick_h> shoot, I only barely know enough to make it useful, I
<rick_h> 've still not gone through half my make book
<rick_h> sweet, laptop is stateside, AK to KY now
<rick_h> might make it by wed yet
<MaskedDriver> which lappy did you get rick_h?
<rick_h> x230
<MaskedDriver> Thinkpad?
<rick_h> yea, the one true laptop
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> that's debatable
<rick_h> ready when you are :)
<MaskedDriver> what are we laptopping for? what purpose?
<rick_h> work, it's my machine I rnu my work/life on
<MaskedDriver> so hacking?
<rick_h> I have a dock, etc
<rick_h> yea, I work from home so my laptop is my work machine, play machine, etc
<rick_h> you should come down to CHC weds
<MaskedDriver> gotcha... The machine I'd really like is an MSI GT70
<MaskedDriver> or one of the new Alienware ones with dual Radeon 7970s
<MaskedDriver> ... if only it weren't alienware :(
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> gaming I guess?
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<rick_h> only reason for that stuff I can think of
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<rick_h> lol 17" display
<MaskedDriver> my boss just bought one with an 18.4" display
<MaskedDriver> dumbest thing I've ever seen
<MaskedDriver> but yeah... I want something I can also play games on
<widox> yikes, 18" laptop display. that sounds to painful to be portable
<MaskedDriver> widox: yeah... that'll sit right next to his machine with 64GB RAM, 2 512GB SSDs, 3rd gen i7 and dual Geforce 680's
<MaskedDriver> he may or may not make too much money ;)
<MaskedDriver> I'm perfectly happy with my 1st gen i7, 12gb ram, and Radeon 6850
<Blazeix> i bet that runs solitaire really well
<MaskedDriver> Blazeix: naw.. kinda laggy
<rick_h> lol
<MaskedDriver> he's actually never used it except for the day he built it. He didn't have any room in his house for it
<MaskedDriver> my co-worker is borrowing it until he gets moved in to his new place
<rick_h> greg-g: you sucker
<rick_h> greg-g: got me into this typing game :P
<rick_h> http://www.phoboslab.org/ztype/
<rick_h> 91% woot
<derekv> 2099 91.99 on normal
<derekv> 3554 expert
<derekv> and it was a bit more intense
<rick_h> much better on the desktop keyboard, 96% 24k on normal
<rick_h> I'll have to try on the kenisis sometime
<MaskedDriver> 3980, 95.5% on normal
<rick_h> woot!
<MaskedDriver> it's not me.. it's the daskeyboard
<MaskedDriver> mechanical keyboard supremecy
<rick_h> yea, unicomp model m here
<MaskedDriver> very ncie
<rick_h> banging the keys sounds like real shots getting fired!
<MaskedDriver> agreed
<MaskedDriver> are those cherry blue?
<rick_h> no, model M buckling spring
<MaskedDriver> oooh right
<MaskedDriver> I haven't typed on one of those in awhile
<rick_h> I've got blue and browns in some leopold 10less keyboards here, not as big a fan as teh springs
<rick_h> the kensis uses browns as well I think
<MaskedDriver> not a fan of brown
<MaskedDriver> I prefer the blue, I'll have to type on the springs again to see how I like that
<rick_h> yea, got brown because of the noise in the office when I worked in the office two days a week
<rick_h> springs ftw imo, but I tend to swap out keyboards every now and again
<MaskedDriver> ah right, way to be considerate :)
<MaskedDriver> the day I got the daskeyboard I got it shipped to work and I used it all day
<MaskedDriver> folks were NOT happy
<MaskedDriver> they'd walk over and yell "CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK!!!!"
<derekv> i watched a video, about how that means your pressing down further than you need to
<MaskedDriver> anyway, now that I've sufficiently given myself carpel tunnel, I'm going to bed
<rick_h> yea, definitely pressing farther than I need to for it to pick it up, but the feel is awesome
<rick_h> actually had sore fingers the first week with the unicomp, more muscles ftw! :)
<MaskedDriver> derekv: the springs or the cherry's?
<MaskedDriver> I guess either
<MaskedDriver> but it still increases precision and speed
<MaskedDriver> after typing on a mechanical, I'll never go back if I have the choice (I don't at work)
<MaskedDriver> not the best for gaming, but that's what I have my Naga and Logitech G13 for. Keyboard is for typing
<MaskedDriver> anywho.. have a good night, all. Catch you all tomorrow
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: toss me a link in Twitter with info on CHC, I'll try to make it if I can
<MaskedDriver> nvm found it on the site. Caribou Coffee
<derekv> MaskedDriver, all of them I think
<derekv> there's two clicks
<derekv> one is softer, indicates you've pressed far enough to register
<derekv> the second is louder, its the keycap hitting the bottom of the board
<MaskedDriver> I'd say there's three
<derekv> kinesis has a modified switch where the first click is softer but they enhance it with an electronic click which you can disable
<MaskedDriver> actuating, keycap and retracting
<derekv> sure
<MaskedDriver> nothing feels better than having the keys push your fingers back up to go straight to the next key
<derekv> if your trying to be loud
<derekv> =p
<MaskedDriver> derekv: I'll take loud over slow and unresponsive any day ;)
<MaskedDriver> I doubt those around me would agree, but screw 'em, I say!
<MaskedDriver> I'm outtie.. later
<derekv> if they can notice you they aren't working hard enough
<derekv> you know if I didn't know any better
<derekv> i'd say its getting hotter
<derekv> typing tutor
<snap-l> rick_h: Hope your pup has a speedy recovery.
<shakes808> morning all
<MaskedDriver> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h> snap-l: thanks, same here poor girl
<rick_h> so boy came to me asking to get a tool from the garage because his wooden Thomas train is broken and he needs to fix it
 * rick_h is so proud
<rick_h> gave him a small screwdriver and told him to get to work lol
<MaskedDriver> :)
<MaskedDriver> even if he can't fix it.. it's the initiative that counts
<rick_h> oh yea, there's nothing wrong with it. I just gave it to him yesterday
<rick_h> he's just in an "I've got to fix it" mode
<brousch> Nice
<rick_h> and figured out dad gets the tools from the garage
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<brousch> http://slo.craigslist.org/bik/3050996290.html
<rick_h> hate the handlebars, but funny
<MaskedDriver> fixie don't stop
<snap-l> Nuts, I forgot an Ethernet cord for the wireless router I'm bringing tonight
<snap-l> anyone got a spare they can put in their backpack?
<rick_h> snap-l: sure thing
<snap-l> Thanks
<rick_h> ~138447
<Milyardo> Is CHC tonight or something?
<rick_h> MUG is
<rick_h> CHC is wed nights
<shakes808> about MUG, they guy who tapes the meetings, where does he post those at? I won't be able to make it tonight but would like to watch it.
<brousch> rick_h: One less reason to hate JQuery https://github.com/jquery/jquery#modules-new-in-18
<rick_h> man, I'm so happy today. Finally an ssh-agent again. Life is sooo ogood
<rick_h> brousch: getting closer, now you only need to have node, npm, and grunt installed to tweak your JS usage :P
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: lol ofc you find fault with it
<rick_h> let me know when I'm wrong and I'll fess up :P
<rick_h> what I <3 about the YUI combo loader stuff. By default if you load the right base file, it'll deduce the location of the rest from that and works without running anything
<MaskedDriver> but YUI was built by Yahoo! :(
<rick_h> yep, clearly they've never had a site with large traffic in their life
<MaskedDriver> depends on when those developers started
<MaskedDriver> :p
<rick_h> le sigh: douglas crockford worked for Yahoo until just recently (last couple of weeks) so they must know nothing of JS now hehe
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> What the heck is the point of Two-Factor auth if every application I have needs it's own app-specific password.
<snap-l> Sheesh.
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: told ya.. you'll have that turned off by week's end
<rick_h> it's two factor, not replace everything with one new factor
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: doesn't make it any less annoying
<rick_h> lastpass, 2-factor to that, and have it auto fill the diff password in each service
<brousch> snap-l: Welcome to Google 2-factor hell. Enjoy your stay.
<jrwren> rick_h: wtf, how were you without ssh-agent?
<jrwren> and for how long?
<rick_h> jrwren: about a year
<rick_h> jrwren: so there was an update so that the way I ran ssh-agent when I started Awesome broke
<jrwren> built by yahoo! is not a :(  yahoo doesn't know how to make money, but they build excellent tech.
<jrwren> rick_h: omg, I don't think I could live.
<rick_h> and I couldn't figure out how to fix it, so it was started but not before the WM so I lost it on every new terminal
<rick_h> if I ran it in a tmux session, that session seemed to keep it
<rick_h> so it wasn't that bad, but let's just say I'll never forget my ssh key
<rick_h> but today got thinking it must be something in lightdm I could do and found our there's a new .xsessionrc that's run (.xinit isn't I guess)
<rick_h> from /etc/X11/Xsession.d scripts
<jrwren> export SSH_AUTH_SOCK=`find /tmp/ssh*  -type s -printf "%T+ %p\n" 2>/dev/null | head -1 | cut -f 2 -d " "`  in my PROMPT_COMMAND to fix my agent post-screen reconnection
<rick_h> added that and only had to enter my ssh key once in the last hour
<rick_h> oh, yea don't know why I didn't see/think of that :P
<derekv> i've wasted time being ssh'd to the wrong machine a few times... for a while i had a card in my wallet with fingerprints on it
<derekv> ssh is one of my avorite things ever
<jrwren> +1
<rick_h> yea, agent back is so nice...bzr pull without another key entry, git push without another entry...
<rick_h> don't realize how much stuff runs over ssh
<derekv> its the more other ssl
<derekv> re
<jrwren> -R, -L, -D, ControlMaster, ForwardAgent and so on. they are awesome.
<derekv> its the other ssl
<derekv> ( even more other? )
<derekv>  ( otherer?)
<jrwren> its at a layer higher than ssl.
<derekv> perhaps
<jrwren> definite
<derekv> and 802.1x is lower
<jrwren> i'm not sure what 802.1x is :)
<derekv> layer 2(?) authentication
<derekv> need to double check, but I think layer 2
<jrwren> port based NAC
<derekv> that'd be layer 1
<derekv> its what enterprise wifi security is based on
<derekv> but it predates wifi
<derekv> you can run it on wired networks
<jrwren> layer1 is the cable
<derekv> layer one is physical eg ethernet, layer 2 is like ... the mac addresses ... shiii now i'm not sure
<derekv> layer two is like what happens on your subnet
<derekv> nah
<derekv> the network segment? whats the word i'm looking for... everything behind the router
<derekv> often but not nessisarily one subnet
<derekv> arp
<derekv> switches and hubs
<derekv> 802.1x is at that leveel, the switches have to understand it
<derekv> you need a radius server
<derekv> it encrypts traffic and authenticates
<derekv> so you can have encryption over the wire on your lan
<derekv> for the paranoid
<jrwren> hehe.
<jrwren> well, the answer is "it depends"
<jrwren> but i KNOW :)
<derekv> then they adopted it for wifi
<jrwren> *nod*
<derekv> =]
<derekv> I like explaining stuff
<derekv> :p
<derekv> gtg
<jrwren> wifi mucks it up a bit, because it has its own link layer for doing things like connecting to an SSID
<jrwren> yes, its how we learn.
<jrwren> just remember, OSI is a MODEL and all models are inaccurate
<derekv> yea
<derekv> not surprising if wifi modifies 802.1x a bit but its still called 802.1x if you look at the way its spec'd out... the AP surves the same function as a switch...
<jrwren> yup.
<derekv> I set up a radius AD server for some APs once it was slick
<derekv> got it all working cause I was leaving that job
<derekv> then my replacement came in and instantly turned it off
<derekv> made me sick
<jrwren> i've never used an 802.1x lan
<derekv> it was working fine, he said, we are going to get some new devices, we don't know if they suport enterprise wlan yet
<derekv> i was like, my fucking android supports it
<jrwren> you should take pride in your work, but not let your work define you.
<derekv> and these will be enterprise devices
<derekv> also, then never got these devices
<derekv> =[
<derekv> they
<derekv> yea
<derekv> well, I do ... its a shame I can't still be there making everything perfect but I couldn't have stayed there and continued to grow and I can't do everything
<derekv> I tried for a bit though
<derekv> bbl
<rick_h> man I <3 esata "backup this 15GB...ummm...ok....done"
<jrwren> if you have really fast disks its even faster than gigabit :)
<jrwren> rick_h: what is your position on testing state of private variables. I'd like to change some things to _ private to relay intent, but I want ot test their values too.
<rick_h> jrwren: so generally I find it a no-no
<rick_h> if I want to test it, I try to test it indirectly
<rick_h> that some method does some default thing which might be using that private var
<rick_h> jrwren: but it has been done and will be done again I'm sure
<jrwren> rick_h: yeah, i agree, i was just looking for someone to tell me it is OK so that I don't do the RIGHT thing and extract a new class with more singular behavior and have those values be public there where it makes sense
<rick_h> jrwren: hah, sorry. If the 'right' thing is apparent I say go for it, but I think we've all done the shortcut and as long as it's tested and it changes the breakage is obvious
<rick_h> and then you just move the 'right thing' downstream to some poor schmuck who'll do it wrong anyway :)
<jrwren> i don't have a downstream
<brousch> What an unholy mess
<brousch> Working with a n00b on a website, and he started with Dreamweaver.
<MaskedDriver> is he a designer?
<rick_h> *sigh* getting my django mess from yesterday code reviewed
<rick_h> "django has a thing for this, just use that there..." "but the docs say it doesn't" "trust me, it does what you need there"
<brousch> No, he is nothing right now
<MaskedDriver> ah
<brousch> He was going to pay for software to make a javascript slideshow
<rick_h> oh geeze
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> that's awesome
<MaskedDriver> let him do it
<brousch> Yeah, I decided to mentor him on this project instead of just doing it myself. Good karma and all that
<MaskedDriver> brousch: that's nice of you
<snap-l> brousch: When you kill yourself, the gods will smile on your good deeds
<brousch> Community building you know
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: was about to say something about the same
<MaskedDriver> I only have a certain amount of mentoring I can do before I start throwing things
<MaskedDriver> someone wanting to BUY a javascript slideshow is where I draw the line
<brousch> He just didn't know free stuff was out there
<brousch> He had 1 external stylesheet, 3 sections of style in the header, and a bunch of inline styles
<brousch> Also bits and pieces of a reset in the header
<jrwren> wtf is wrong with buying a slideshow?
<jrwren> yeah, its just ignorance, and besides, you buy, you get support.
<jrwren> they'd probably hold his hand to code its use.
<jrwren> then you don't have to!
<brousch> There are 10,000 slideshow frameworks for free. Why would you pay for one?
<jrwren> because you are not comfortable suporting a free one and want the security of support for a paid for.
<jrwren> same with all dev software.
<jrwren> i'm not saying that I would do it. It is a valid reason.
<Milyardo> There are people who sell javascript framworks?
<brousch> If you're not comfortable using a little javascript slideshow, you have no business trying to make a website
<brousch> You will end up buying every little widget
<Milyardo> God forbid if you must implement any DSL in javascript
<brousch> My guess is he was going to buy a Flash slideshow, not Javascript
<jrwren> its not bad at all if you are in the widget selling business
<snap-l> It's not bad if people buy from whatever business you're selling. :)
<snap-l> If someone buys one of my buggy-whips, I can claim 100% increase in sales
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: what was that game we were playing last night? the typing one... do you remember the URL?
<snap-l> doesn't hail the return of the horse and buggy
<MaskedDriver> my boss wants to check i tout
<MaskedDriver> it
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Wrong george.
<MaskedDriver> who was it?
<snap-l> (ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nRboFgu8Tc)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> http://www.phoboslab.org/ztype/
<MaskedDriver> found it
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h> morning greg-g
<brousch> Wrong!
<brousch> https://github.com/brousch/flask-boilerplate.git
<brousch> blah, sorry
<brousch> That's not wrong, greg-g is wrong
<rick_h> ruh roh, someone fired up brousch
<brousch> (12:01:43 PM) greg-g: g'morning
<brousch> I don't know if the Flask boilerplate is wrong yet ;)
<greg-g> sorry for being a west coast lazy  :)
<rick_h> :P
<rick_h> are you 3 or 4 hours back. 9am starting time seems a bit slacker :P
<Blazeix> 8am is for crazies. ideally that's when you should be thinking about getting up.
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> 3
<greg-g> hours
 * brousch was awakened at 5:20 this morning
<greg-g> 9am at the office, been on the train since 8:04
<greg-g> I was awake at 5:30 myself :)
<rick_h> yea, I got the carbon monoxide detector waking up...tore every fire alarm in the ohuse down doing the "WTF IS BEEPING!" scene you'd expect from a movie
<rick_h> ugh, come on EOD
<rick_h> widox: check out the end of http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=103983 :)
<jrwren> noticed that django source is not 80column limited.
<jrwren> i'm really hating python right now.
<jrwren> I don't know if i really hate it or if it is just learning pains.
<rick_h> django source is crap, no pep8 <3 in there
<rick_h> and there's 10 ways to do things
<rick_h> I've spent all morning getting told to do it another more django way, only to find that it's broken and there's a 3rd django way I can use instead, if I do all this extra crap
<Milyardo> Clearly you should meditate more on way that is Django
<rick_h> I'm going to throttle someone is what I'm going to do
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: you talking about paul?
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> hah
<MaskedDriver> I'll let him know, so he can avoid you at the next python convention you're both at
<rick_h> just ask him how he feels about django static files, I can't help but think even django fans have to know this is BS
<jrwren> so unittest doesn't follow pep8.
<jrwren> python is a ghetto
<rick_h> yes...it can definitely be
<rick_h> now the question is, is unittest2 pep8?
<jrwren> maybe I should use testify :)  its the "pythonic" test framework
<rick_h> because theyhad a chance to fix it there since it's new and in py3
<jrwren> good question.
<rick_h> oh freak no
<jrwren> testify!
<rick_h> nope, damn java naming conventions
<rick_h> unittest2 that is
<jrwren> so what i've learned from this: pep8 is just a cute idea that no one, not even python core follows, and I can ignore it
<rick_h> nooooooooo
<rick_h> looks like only a handful of violatoins in unittest2, I can live...but ugh
<rick_h> I should submit a damn patch
<Milyardo> Style guides were made to be ignored in every language
<jrwren> Milyardo: i mostly agree :)
 * rick_h goes to lunch...this django bs is making me too damn cranky
 * jrwren knows its not really django, but python itself that makes rick_h cranky
<rick_h> yea, but every time I try to go to a diff lang...I come back to python
<rick_h> says something I guess
<MaskedDriver> you're afraid of change?
<MaskedDriver> :D
 * rick_h looks down at stack of books including R, erlang, haskell, perl, php, JS, mono...
<Milyardo> It just means he hasn't gone to emacs LISP yet
<rick_h> don't think it's that :P
<jrwren> ruby
<rick_h> yea, got some of that too
<rick_h> but it's like python...just done poorly
<MaskedDriver> don't tell that to Google
<jrwren> right now I feel python is ruby done poorly
<jrwren> i sure hope I come around.
<rick_h> heh, as much as python packaging sucks, ruby world sucks more, and at least python is getting better
<jrwren> but, prefer list comprehension to use of map just drives me mad!
<rick_h> untitest2, virtualenv, mock in 3.3 std lib
<snap-l> Python packaging is a lot better imh
<snap-l> imho
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> but still sucks
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: paul is fine with static files
<snap-l> used to be the Perl packaging was the gold standard, but frankly I'd rather deal with the warts of Python anyday.
<MaskedDriver> <paultag>:  You never serve through django, though
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: you do in dev, then have to do magic command BS in production
<rick_h> and there's only 15 ways to setup dev/etc routes for static...ugh
<MaskedDriver> MaskedDriver: the way it works is, use static for testing viadjango. Once you push to prod, change the static url in the settings to point to static.domain.tld, and host that via nginx and a proxy cache
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: ++
<MaskedDriver> one sec.. he's telling me how he does it
<snap-l> Even just nginx should suffice
<rick_h> right, but then you've got to use the magic "congregate" crap to pull all the various static files up to root for nginx to serve
<rick_h> what I don't like is all the diff in production/deploy
<rick_h> whole codebase is littered with "if settings.debug" crap
<rick_h> don
<MaskedDriver> he's showing me what he does in dev and production
<rick_h> 't do it wrong to start with and quit mucking it up
<rick_h> yea, ask him if he's using django.contrib.staticfiles or django.conf.urls.static or django.views.static...
<MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/694/
<snap-l> oh good grief
<MaskedDriver> I love how I'm the official middleman between you and paul lately
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h> :) all good
<rick_h> anyway, lunch...
<MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/695/
<MaskedDriver> edited
<MaskedDriver> those are the finders at the top (at the bottom of the paste)
<greg-g> w00t, typed my new gpg passphrase flawlessly the first time on the kinesis :)
<snap-l> greg-g: congratulations on learning to use a keyboard. ;)
<greg-g> man, it is tough!
<greg-g> that dang middle finger on my left hand always messing up (as in, apparently I used it wrong for all these years)
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: paul says you can join his channel #whube if you wanna talk to him about django stuff
<snap-l> paul also says that he would like all payments for services rendered to be made through his agent, snap-l, in small, unmarked bills
<snap-l> wherein they will be dispersed into the economy at large.
<brousch> rick_h: Staticfiles are a PITA, and it seems like they change how it's done every release
<brousch> Which is probably why you end up with outdated info
<shakes808> rick_h_: are you running chome canary for your "bleeding edge"-ness?
<shakes808> or a beta ver of Chrome
<rick_h> shakes808: dev yea
<rick_h> bleeding edge
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: thanks
<rick_h> snap-l: if you want my payments I have for Django, I think you might want to take some motrin first
<rick_h> there won't be many $$ going around for my thanks :)
<widox> rick_h: haha re thinkpad battery
<nullspace> anyone play with voyager yet?
<brousch> My 7 of 9 inflatable is well-worn if that's what you mean
<nullspace> http://voyager.legtux.org/
<nullspace> it's a uhh... blend of xfce
<greg-g> brousch: duuuude, come on!
<greg-g> if
<greg-g> if this channel wasn't welcoming to non-stereotype geeks before....
<brousch> Oh fine. My Tuvok inflatable is well worn if that's what you mean
<Milyardo> a Voyager fan? Didn't know those existed
<nullspace> brousch: serious what's wrong with you, if it's anything other than picard I don't want to talk to you
<MaskedDriver> we have a guy here at work that is dead-set on learning java
<MaskedDriver> I died a little inside
<Milyardo> What's wrong with Java?
<MaskedDriver> ick
<brousch> MaskedDriver: There's no problem with wanting to learn something. It should always be encouraged
<MaskedDriver> it's ugly as hell
<MaskedDriver> brousch: he doesn't code at all
<nullspace> well that's your opinion, I know plenty of people who would say the same about python and I tell them hey to each their own
<brousch> So when he gets into it a little ways, you whip out the Python and show him how it can do the same thing in 1/4 the lines of code and without a bloated IDE
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> that's what I plan on doing
<nullspace> I'd suggest not leading into the conversation bad mouthing java
<brousch> Java is useful for Android development, if nothing else
<rick_h> java's good to at least understand
<rick_h> 3/4 of the design books out there are java based
<Milyardo> I dunno, I'm a fan of AOP styled java applications
<rick_h> and tons of useful tools are in it, lucene, jenkins, solr, hadoop, etc
<nullspace> java doc is really nice
<rick_h> yea, I use yuidoc for my JS which is much like it
<MaskedDriver> I think Android development is the only reason he wants to learn it
<rick_h> that's a good reason
<rick_h> though I'll be saying web > native for 75% if apps forever
<MaskedDriver> rick_h: I'm with you on that
<MaskedDriver> I said I'd rather develop a high-functioning web app that works across the board than having to port you app to support the different systems
<MaskedDriver> having to tweak it every 2 days when a new Android version gets pushed out
<brousch> Send him to PyOhio where I'll (hopefully) talk about programming for Android with Python
<MaskedDriver> which IDE do you prefer? I'm partial to eclipse, personally
<brousch> For Java or Python?
<MaskedDriver> java
<brousch> I like Eclipse
<MaskedDriver> is it bad that I don't use an ide for python?
<brousch> Free, open source, no Oracle taint of evil
<Milyardo> I use eclipse for Java development, though only because maven make using it convient
<Milyardo> Speaking which, maven is a pretty awesome tool
<MaskedDriver> Apache Maven?
<Milyardo> Yep
<MaskedDriver> never heard of it.. I'll look at it
<nullspace> http://maven.apache.org/
<Blazeix> it's basically pypi for jvm
<MaskedDriver> gotcha
<rick_h> I thought maven was more ant/make/etc
<nullspace> check out the rest of the java based apache foundation projects
<Milyardo> rick_h: that's true as well
<Blazeix> it is a build tool too, but the killer feature is lib management
<rick_h> ok, I just consider pypi the web app that hosts/serves built python packages
<Milyardo> Yeah well you have maven repositories as well
<Blazeix> rick_h: really? just the web app?
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea
<Blazeix> i always thought it was used to describe the entire infrastructure
<Milyardo> that maven will go to and fetch what ever depedencies you want
<rick_h> the rest is setuptools, etc
<rick_h> no, that's why there's so many pypi replacements that allow for serving/etc via the pypi api
<Milyardo> Anways with Java, it's strength lies in computational reflection, just describe a model and and you can use reflection to alot of different things with your model
<rick_h> http://wiki.python.org/moin/CheeseShopDev
<Blazeix> ok, the confusion is that maven hosts their own repositories
<Blazeix> you could download maven and host your own packages if you really wanted to
<Milyardo> Yeah if you don't define your own repo it looks for jars in Maven's repo be defualt
<Milyardo> *default
<Blazeix> i know languages like scala and clojure both support maven-style dependencies
<Milyardo> That's because Clojure and Scala run in the JVM IIRC
<Blazeix> i think they set up their own repos, and use whatever the maven protocol is
<Blazeix> right
<Milyardo> Yeah, I thought it was a feature in both languages to be able to use any Java library
<Blazeix> right, but each language tends to prefer their own libraries
<Blazeix> since java-style code would look ugly in scala and clojure
<Milyardo> Clojure and Scala both seem to me like you're just neutering yourself by adding fuctional features to a language that can't be it's own meta language
<Blazeix> i played with scala for a bit, and i liked it. it's still imperative, but makes it a lot easier to do functional-style dev
<Blazeix> it was more functional than c#, but not enough more to make me love it.
<Milyardo> There's also the model impedence between structured objects in Java and immutable state in functional languages
<Blazeix> you can write ugly mutable code in scala, but it's frowned upon
<Blazeix> same sort of way the set! functions in scheme exist
<Blazeix> scala has something called 'case classes' which are immutable models
<Milyardo> Yeah objects and functional programming just doesn't mix
<Milyardo> *don't mix
<Blazeix> i'd agree that object mutation doesn't mix
<Blazeix> i'm not so sure about objects in general. there's some pretty cool stuff wrt pattern matching immutable objects in scala
<snap-l> I think absolutes re absolutely wrong.
<jrwren> for a java ide: Jetbrains IDEA
<jrwren> Clojure is a full lisp, so it can be its own meta language, AFAIK
<jrwren> CLOS would disagree with that statement :)
<jrwren> and CLOS has been around for a while.
<Milyardo> In CLOS all object are immutable, when working with Clojure and Scala that isn't tha case
<jrwren> yup
<MaskedDriver> has anyone used owncloud or sparkleshare?
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/uyhbx/comc_first_post_here_my_shelfes_finally_filled_up/ <- I have some catching up to do.
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: checked out sparkleshare. Just git with gnome bindings afaik
<rick_h> snap-l: so when did the wife permit you to take over the living room?
<snap-l> rick_h: 4th of never
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> She's already talking about moving my skillfully concealed video game stuff from the living room
<rick_h> ruh roh
<rick_h> guess now's a good time to bring up the annex you've got planned to biuld out to the garage
<snap-l> Yeah, apparently I don't play enough Saturn and Dreamcast games to justify the real-estate
<rick_h> I feel a resurgance in the force
<snap-l> rick_h: I told her we need to build a furnished bomb shelter
<llua> @MaskedDriver, i've used owncloud for awhile, personally didn't have a need for it tho
<greg-g> I like owncloud, but yeah, it isn't replacing anything yet
<greg-g> I can't wait for the git-annex work to produce some fruit
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-13
<smoser> rick_h, good talk.
<smoser> the "live makefile creation" worked well
 * waldo323 nods!
<rick_h> smoser: thanks, I know you're note supposed to do a live demo
<rick_h> but couldn't think of a better way to 'understand' than to build small and up
<rick_h> unfortnuately I just said I'd do this back at the last CHC wed so not a ton of practice lol
<rick_h> and just noticed if I ssh into my lxc container no shell issues doh!
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> its just the terminal on the console is less than perfect
<rick_h> it's my first dinking around with lxc, I need to spend some time with it
<smoser> but through ssh you get a pty, and all normal magic happens
<rick_h> makes sense
<smoser> i have used it some. i use ec2 instances instead of lxc a lot.
<smoser> some of your patsubst stuff, could possibly be donewith '%-min.js: %.js'
<rick_h> kind of cool little setup, hoping to put my LP dev environment in one to be able to shutdown/start up nicely
<rick_h> yea, I ran into issues with that, SO helped me get the patsubst stuff
<rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9985407/using-make-build-minimize-js-files-that-have-changed
<brousch> MUG video up yet?
<rick_h> nope, told him not to record
<rick_h> but I do think it'll make a good screencast
<rick_h> so I'll have to try to script it and work on that
<rick_h> maybe a pyohio opne space kind of thing
<derekv> did I mention how the entire freebsd ports system is based on makefiles?
<derekv> not even gnu make... and I think gnu make is better
<derekv> I guess I probably mention bsd a lot =p
<rick_h> hah, all cool. I know a bunch of guys that are bsd fans
<rick_h> anyone want a 3rd gen kindle (not the latest w/o keyboard, but the ones with)
<rick_h> oh and morning
<shakes808> Good morning
<rick_h> morn
<shakes808> How was MUG last night? Was it recorded?
<rick_h> it was good
<snap-l> And it was not recorded
<shakes808> :(
<rick_h> trust me, you didn't want to see the recording anyway :)
<shakes808> Why? What did you do rick?
<rick_h> nothing like that, just really bad recordings
<rick_h> I'll try to do this as a screencast I think and hopefully it'll come out better than a recording would have
<shakes808> cool
<shakes808> So Ubuntu question: The default image viewer makes everyone look like they are either covered in blood or some form of red ompa lompa. Why is that? When I put the pictures in another viewer they are fine, or when I put them in Libre's Impress they are fine.
<brousch> shakes808: What is the default viewer?
<shakes808> Not sure what it was. I would have to start up my laptop and I am at work right now. When I go to CHC tonight I will be able to tell you what it was using.
<snap-l> OK, this two-factor stuff is really annoying
<snap-l> I have data that is encrypted using a different version of my Google Account Password
<shakes808> I just recently changed it to someother view that was on Ubuntu.
<snap-l> And off comes two-factor
<brousch> PITA
<snap-l> And lovely, I lost my encrypted data.
<brousch> Hopefully it wasn't your music collection
<rick_h> woot, laptop says out for delivery
<rick_h> so it'll probably get here around 7pm
<brousch> So you're gonna be tied up all night
<rick_h> heh, CHC install-fest!
<jrwren> bsd make is annoying.
<brousch> Hey ya'll with kids http://kids.woot.com/offers/erector-set
<snap-l> procreationist!
<snap-l> some of us might like erector sets. ;)
<brousch> Sorry, you're right
<rick_h> ooooh
<rick_h> I've only got 5yrs to go until he can use it, good bargain!
<brousch> Bull. He can use it at age 4
<brousch> As soon as he learns not to eat non-food items
<snap-l> by that time erector sets will have evolved into some carbon-nano-tube press thing
<snap-l> with 3d printing
<brousch> That requires a computer to make things. Erector set is stand-alone
<brousch> Like legos vs minecraft
<snap-l> Seeking to improve its standing among business news Web sites, CNBC will announce a new partnership on Wednesday with Yahoo Finance, the largest such Web site in the United States.
<jrwren> 3d print your own erector pieces
<brousch> Indeed. It is the largest finance news web site from Yahoo in the world!
<snap-l> Can it still be called a boat when there's two anchors
<snap-l> (only)
<jrwren> if they hurt yahoo finance aI'll be PISSED
<jrwren> yahoo finance has hte BEST interface for reading company fundamentals
<snap-l> They're also the default for stock quotes on the iPhone
<jrwren> yay!
<derekv> jrwren, bsd make is annoying only insofar as you need to remember no type gmake on a bsd system if make doesn't work
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> or.
<jrwren> you have to install bmake on a non-bsd system to build a tool that uses bsdmake
<derekv> =]
<derekv> afk
<rick_h> http://blog.sanctum.geek.nz/unix-as-ide-building/ relevent from last night
<brousch> rick_h: 500 error
<brousch> It's been rick_h-dotted
<Blazeix> i've been using cmake for a c++ project lately
<Blazeix> using it to generate makefiles
<rick_h> lol, that concept scares me, generating makefiles.
<jrwren> rick_h: why?
<jrwren> nothing scares me.
<Blazeix> isn't that how the typical autotools stuff works?
<jrwren> yes
<rick_h> because I'm a php/python/js guy and makefiles are scary enough :)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> you never were a C or C++ dev?
<Milyardo> GNU auototools are pretty amazing given the complexity of the project
<jrwren> VERY amazing in their aid of portability
<Milyardo> However the 3 decades of hacks workarounds is the source is absolutely horiffic
<Milyardo> *in
<jrwren> having it based on M4 is rough
<jrwren> its just another piece of evidence that great things can be written in any programming language and it only takes one great thing to keep a language alive.
<rick_h> I did C++ in college and that's when I hated programming and vowed not to get stuck doing it :)
<rick_h> I've forgotten most of it tbh
<jrwren> rick_h: you'd probably still hate some parts of it, but its not bad at all, esp with C++11 features.
<jrwren> is this still good advice: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829
<rick_h> yea, I always want to get some time to go back and try to use it again
<jrwren> opengles on mobile device is a great reason to use C++
<rick_h> but I think I'd end up spending time with Go if I wanted to do something faster/etc
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, good notes in that link
<jrwren> rick_h: ty. I just had my main code in the body of the if __name__ == '__main__': block
<rick_h> I've tended to keep main() another function so that you can python -m "module.main" or whatever
<rick_h> but not wrap the argv bits
<jrwren> that is what I need to do.
<jrwren> i'm so NOT pythonic it is driving me mad.
<jrwren> I think a lot of it is I'm used to boolean types being hte only thing with truthiness
<rick_h> heh, oh come on, 3's true :)
<jrwren> not sure, but it might be my least favorite thing about "dynamic" languages.
<jrwren> and it really has nothing to do with dynamictyping, it sjust most langauges do it.
<rick_h> I find that once you internalize the rules it's ok
<snap-l> Companies that call my home phone number (note: not GV) number are irritating. Companies that call my home phone no. and don't leave a message need to die in a fire.
<rick_h> it's like the === stuff, php and JS do it. Python has the whole test == None / test is None stuff
<rick_h> every language has these quirks around things
<Milyardo> jrwren: as for m4 what about postfix?
<rick_h> things like x = []; if not x: are too darn handy
<Milyardo> That's another project I can think of off the top of my head keeping M4 alive
<jrwren> postfix doesn't use m4 AFAIK. But sendmail sure does.
<rick_h> yea, sendmail, postfix is different
<jrwren> yes, I didn't mean to suggest that autotools was the ONLY m4 user, although it did seem to imply it
<jrwren> does freebsd still use cvsup ?  that kept modula-2 mainstream enought for years. or was it modula-3?
<Milyardo> Ah yeah maybe it was sendmail
<jrwren> modula-3
<jrwren> it was definitely sendmail.
<jrwren> you write the sendmail.mc file and run it through the m4 with sendmail m4 files and output a sendmail.cf file
<jrwren> it was so bad for a logn time that most folks just edited the cf file manually
<jrwren> but as more complex m4 macros for sendmail came out, that became less ideal.
<jrwren> i was a sendmail admin around this time, can you tell?
<Milyardo> haha
<jrwren> rick_h: C# doesn't have these quirks around boolean implicits, and for equality it is simple, value or reference, as it should be.
<brousch> Found some very cool website background image options with SVG
<Blazeix> i'm a fan of subtlepatterns.com
<Blazeix> brousch: linky?
<brousch> Too many links I pulled together into one thing
<brousch> I'll try to write this up
<brousch> Blazeix: essentially it is http://paste.mitechie.com/show/697/
<brousch> With a CSS reset before everything of course
<Blazeix> brousch: ah, thanks
<brousch> ooh, subtlepatterns is nice
<brousch> Wow, totally locked up my computer
<brousch> Virtualbox did
<rick_h> is it a mac?
<rick_h> I keep hearing the latest vbox kernel panics OSX
<rick_h> going back a version fixes it
<brousch> It is
<brousch> But running Kubuntu
<brousch> It used Right ctrl as the escape key, but this keyboard has no Right ctrl key
<brousch> When I clicked it, it locked up
<brousch> Ah well, lunch time
<snap-l> God, everything is irritating me today.
<derekv2> how are presentations scheduled for mug?
<rick_h> you say " snap-l, I want to give a talk at MUG, put me down"
<rick_h> and then they give you a month and you enjoy
<derekv2> thinking about the oss public key crypto pantheon: gpg, openssl, ssh
<derekv2> get your cypherpunk on
<derekv2> there is _a lot_ to talk about there
<rick_h> yea, chat with snap-l, Blazeix, waldo about it. They're on the board and can help with that stuff
<derekv2> can't commit yet anyways.
<derekv2> just had the idea.
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<derekv2> didjaknow openssl has a command line executable
<derekv2> you can use it as a command, to do tons and tons of useful stuff
<greg-g> that's a talk right there!
<derekv2> no kidding
<derekv2> iirc you can encrypt files with it,
<derekv2> do anything imaginable with x.509 certs
<derekv2> ohhh thank the gosh
<derekv2> i'm installing a server at work, not only is linux supported , its not just redhat
<derekv2> ubuntu is supported
<rick_h> woot!
<rick_h> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/120154 O...M...G could it really happen?
<snap-l> rick_h: I read they were vendor-prefixed
<rick_h> well it's  along way from being used. Only in webkit/etc but the fact that there's a spec, approved, and implementation starting is OMG
<snap-l> It's not a real standard until Adobe can figure out how to make it an attack vector
<MaskedDriver> http://files.idontlikethisgame.com/callme.jpg
<MaskedDriver> There is no recovering from this... My coworker sent this to me. I uploaded it. I may have to just pack up my things and go home
<derekv2> ?
<jrwren> virtual box locking up your computer is conistent with other oracle products.
<derekv2> is this ubuntu cloud guest ... does canonical have its own cloud or it just a front for amazon's?
<rick_h> so you can run your own cloud using a mass->juju->openstack stack of ubuntu goodness
<rick_h> but there's official amis for ec2
<jrwren> you mean maas, right? :)
<rick_h> bah, yea maas
<derekv2> maas
<derekv2> i need to look at this
<derekv2> cool
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeSnOUqx-M
<jrwren> snap-l: WOW
<brousch> Ahahahah, I came up with a great idea for an app to build at my PyOhio Python on Android talk
 * rick_h is afraid
<brousch> Muahahahah
<brousch> What's so scary about an animated gif generator?
<brousch> But really, this will be fun and PG
<snap-l> jrwren: JoDee's mouth hit the floor when she saw it
<jrwren> mine did too. i skipped ahead to 1hr in. O_O awesome
<brousch> Blazeix: What's your twitter handle?
<derekv2> um you guys never seen an aimbot before? =]
<brousch> aim?
<brousch> What are you shooting at?
<MaskedDriver> I see them all the time in BF3
<derekv2> i like where mealstrom starts breaking
<brousch> You are both speaking gibberish
<derekv2> (1:00:29 PM) snap-l: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeSnOUqx-M I'm talking about this
<brousch> ah
<derekv2> an aimbot is where you hack a game so that the computer aims for you
<derekv2> so its not a matter of aiming better or aim assist its a matter of any portion of the bounding box for any enemy which can be hit instantly is hit
<Blazeix> brousch: wafuqua
<brousch> thanks
<jrwren> sure, i've seen lots of game bots, but that one is fun to watch because it is a familiar game
<derekv2> at least they didn't post it as "time attack" vid or something
<derekv2> did i post that tetris video?
<derekv2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqKOlcaZuI  not a bot presumably
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/rSefKNYD9I1fzHRcbDps/
<shakes808> snap-l: lol
<widox> snap-l: yikes
<greg-g> w00t: "Education Session proposal accepted for OSCON 2012"
<derekv2> ?
<brousch> Go greg-g!
<greg-g> thanks brousch
<snap-l> greg-g: That's great!
<snap-l> Now comes the hard part. ;)
<greg-g> derekv2: my session proposal for OSCON (in the education track) was accepted today
<snap-l> (but I know you'll rock it)
<greg-g> oh yeah, I still have to write it ;)
<derekv2> greg-g: What is it about?
<derekv2> thats the huge 1week one right?
<greg-g> well, yeah, first couple days are tutorials, last few are talks
<greg-g> I'm in the talks portion
<greg-g> oscon.com
<greg-g> there are a few huge 1 week long FLOSS conferences though ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: nice!
<jrwren> oscon is the nice one that MSFT goes to
<derekv2> booo "You agree not to access (or attempt to access) the Market by any means other than through the interface that is provided by Google, unless you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google."
<derekv2> http://codekiem.com/2012/02/24/apk-downloader/
<derekv2> are bookie hashes permanent ?
<greg-g> derekv2: define permanent ;)
<brousch> When I return from Mars in 2045, will they still work?
<greg-g> lets see, rick will be about 70 years old then, so, maybe?
<rick_h> ruh roh, rick what?
<rick_h> derekv2: yes, but since you only have one hash vs per auth tokens like ouath, there is the ability to generate a new one
<rick_h> so stable, but not permanent
<snap-l> I swear, today is looking to make me want to punch babies
<snap-l> neighbor just decided now would be a perfect time to hammer in the nails for his fence
<snap-l> Which, normally wouldn't be a bad thing, but when I'm working on something that is already irritating, it sets me right on edge.
<Blazeix> turn on some mathcore
<snap-l> Borknager
<Blazeix> or go to a coffeeshop
<brousch> headphones
<brousch> Bikeporn for greg-g http://www.metrofiets.com/profiles/hopworks/
<brousch> Hah, coffee bike is awesome
<derekv2> rick_h: i just curious re integration possibilities
<derekv2> nothing to go right for me today
<derekv2> not enough disk space on one machine for a new instance
<derekv2> pull out an old server ... i have 64b linux iso ... can't find any blank media
<derekv2> so then i check, server is processor family 15 model 4, wikip says this is 64b, so I make a usb stick installer and lo... its not
<derekv2> its 32 bit
<derekv2> the joys of working for a frugal small business owner
<derekv2> meh its not his fault... damn i have a headache
<snap-l> God, this is some ugly code
<derekv2> going to need some sort of install meta-command if i'm going to carry makefiles around between all the systems i use
<derekv2> then an implementation for debian, mac (brew?), windows, bsd
<derekv2> to start.
<derekv2> rpm also
<derekv2> interesting idea
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-14
<jrwren> snap-l: that ugly code was python i bet :p
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> jrwren: It was, but it was an ugly problem accompanying it.
<snap-l> flattening the data from severalrows to add more columns in a spreadsheet
<snap-l> This code was designed for taking one spreadsheet and putting it into another spreadsheet
<snap-l> "Great news! We have increased your Internet download speed from 8Mbps to 15Mbps at no additional charge to you. In order to get the new speed you just need to reboot your cable modem. Please follow the steps below to reboot your modem:"
<snap-l> brb
<snap-l> And now off to speedtest.
<snap-l> Bah, almost 2Mb up
<snap-l> But 15.92Mb down
<snap-l> I'll take it. :)
<snap-l> I wonder when my bill will b adjusted, since I have until 2013 with this current contract. :)
<rick_h> damn, nice stuff
<snap-l> https://sales.wowway.com/OnlineStore/PricingAndPackaging.aspx
<snap-l> Apparently this is across the board
<rick_h> nice
<snap-l> It's either 2mbps basic, or 15mbps
<rick_h> 15 is nice, and 2 up is better than my 1.5
<snap-l> Well, it's 1.8ish
<rick_h> still, good stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, nice thing to wake up to this morning. :)
<rick_h> I feel the sudden urge to buy something from over seas: http://goo.gl/sH8m5
<snap-l> Yeah, that spread like wildfire last night
<snap-l> But, he has a point. I think it's brilliant
<rick_h> yea, I'm a big fan of that idea.
<rick_h> In some way you justify and get to really track the impact on business
<rick_h> and provide a monetary incentive for people to upgrade their crap
<MaskedDriver> morning
<rick_h> derekv: http://backstage.soundcloud.com/2012/06/building-the-next-soundcloud/
<rick_h> get your JS on baby! :)
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021452.do?code=DEAL
<snap-l> 156 pages of pure erlang goodness
<rick_h> shhhh, don't tempt me
<rick_h> I've stayed away so long
<shakes808> good morning
<shakes808> http://www.flashingdeals.com/deals/redbox-free-first-night-game-blu-ray-or-dvd-rental
<nullspace> snap-l: sounds like a docis 3.0 upgrade...
<nullspace> rick_h: did you get your new lappy up and runnign yet?
<rick_h> nullspace: yea, spent last night maxing my mifi setting it up
<rick_h> I pulled together the docks/etc yesterday so just want to make sure I've got my stuff off and I'll clean it up
<nullspace> I'm just interesting in hearing you brag about your new lappy
<nullspace> interested...
<rick_h> ah, yea posted the pic some initial notes: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=104564
<rick_h> it's nice so far, speed is good, new ssd is good stuff, fast, still not sure I'm sold on the keyboard...but time will tell
<derekv> rick_h, yea they mentioned 'next' in the interview, i didn't get a chance to check it out.
<derekv> current site has some flash I think, but the embeddable sound you can put on your site and the next is all html5
<derekv> html5 audio
<rick_h> yea, just ran across that and thought of you there :)
<derekv> haven't had much chance to check it out
<rick_h> add JS to the iOS list of stuff heh
<derekv> I think before chc i'd never met anyone except myself who had used a tiling window manager
<rick_h> we've got a good group
<derekv> And like I said I had begrudgingly given up on it a long time ago
<rick_h> CHC is such a nice group of esoteric things. We could be thinkpads anon now, tiling anon, vim anon :)
<rick_h> and once in a while new people show up to be converted :P
<rick_h> though we still haven't gotten snap-l on tiling...I consider that a failure in CHC so far
<brousch> Heh
<brousch> CHC is The Cult of Rick
<derekv> I was using larswm
<derekv> a long time back
<rick_h> _stink_: uses an off shoot, you still on that _stink_ ?
<rick_h> blanking on the name...stumpwm or something I think
<derekv> and I remember the one thing that I couldn't get to work, firefox would not label its windows
<derekv> it'd create dialogs and label them the same as the parent window
<derekv> whatever it was lars would put them _behind_ firefox
<derekv> and I spent a long time trying to work around that problem
<derekv> I got the FF source and was trying to find where the window labeling happened
<rick_h> heh, ouch
<derekv> maybe thats been fixed since or awesome has some trick to deal with it
<rick_h> yea, I stick with awesome because, for the most part, things work ootb pretty well
<derekv> I've always regreted the loss... that and the loss of mutt
<rick_h> ah, mutt, my irssi companion
<derekv> I've never been able to spend as much time getting my environment set up all slick as I did in college
<rick_h> I've got a shortcut `ta coms` that opens a coms tmux session with two 'windows' for mutt nad irssi
<rick_h> if you ever get the hankering let me know. greg-g and I run it full time
<rick_h> with notmuch integration it's nice to have good search again
<derekv> yea, i think a while back I did try mutt again with the imap capability, and it wasn't the same
<rick_h> yea, I use offlineimap, imapfilter, and mutt to combine and sort out my mailboxes pretty well
<derekv> so I think you need to run one of those imap to local mail processes
<rick_h> yep, I run offlineimap on one of my ec2 boxes that aggregates mail from gmail/work
<derekv> because the whole thing with mutt was that it was FAST
<derekv> was/is
<rick_h> and then my laptop/phone hook into that ec2 server serving it back out over dovecot
<rick_h> yea, it's nice, that and the vim editing of email, custom shortcuts, etc
<rick_h> St is a shortcut for moving mail to a tech folder, etc
<brousch> What's a folder?
<rick_h> I've got shortcuts that all start with S (s is normal move command) for the popular ones
<rick_h> brousch: a label in goo-speak
<rick_h> :)
<derekv> in vim, what do you call what you would call modes in emacs?
<brousch> barbaric
<rick_h> derekv: filetype?
<rick_h> mutt sets the vim filetype to mail
<rick_h> so I have vim shortcuts for ft=mail that sets formatting, etc
<rick_h> and some templates I use
<rick_h> using snipmate you can create templates for specific file types
<derekv> I mean if you want to code in a given programming language with a given style
<derekv> correct indent
<derekv> etc
<rick_h> right, it's just detected by filetype
<derekv> I just know the basic commands in vim.
<derekv> So how do you add more?
<derekv> Filetypes?
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc#L351
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc#L376
<rick_h> etc
<derekv> I see there is some sort of scripting
<rick_h> yea, it's vimscript
<derekv> emacs added this little feature thats pretty slick... you can use lisp in regex-replace
<derekv> so like find all the numbers add 20
<derekv> but I think vim has someting like that too...
<rick_h> yea, end of the day I probably only know/use 10% of vim
<derekv> Right. and Ive never heard of something big one could do the other couldn't.
<rick_h> yea, there's things that are more common, the embedded console/etc
<rick_h> you can do it, but I think much more rare to have the editor doing so much
<derekv> emacs does more than it needs to... just because people have used it as a platform to write applications
<jrwren> nullspace, snap-l definite don't need docsis3 for those speeds. I get 30/8 on my 8yr old docsis2 modem
<jrwren> comcast has been upping their speeds for a long time. it happens every so often.
<jrwren> emacs is an application platform.
<derekv> man I woke up feeling sure I was going to be sick
<derekv> but i'm ok now.  just late.
<derekv> 35.92 up 6.32 down
<derekv> I thought I was paying for faster than that I should check it out
<derekv> still it ends up being plenty fast
<derekv> er down:35.92 up:6.32
<nullspace> jrwren: I know you don't need docsis3 for those speeds but the reason for the upgrade might be because they finished up upgrading the network to support it
<snap-l> Yeah, the upload speed is really where I want the increases
<snap-l> Uploading OMC to archive.org takes over 10 minutes.
<snap-l> Used the FTP upload mechanism so I could use linode's speedier pipes when I moved stuff over to archive.org.
<snap-l> Love it: My graduating class from high school sent out an e-mail to everyone about an upcoming event
<snap-l> just about every one on there is using a comcast, sbcglobal, ett, aol, juno, hotmail, yahoo or gmail account
<brousch> snap-l: Try uploading 20 minute long 1080p videos to YouTube
<snap-l> brousch: No, thank you.
<jrwren> nullspace: yeah, might be.
<jrwren> snap-l: streaming 720p out of my home to work is fun. flac too, but not both at once :)
<snap-l> jrwren: jealous. :) I have to transcode
<snap-l> so I'm listening to 128kbps at work
<snap-l> on the plus side, I'm using my Squeezebox. ;)
<jrwren> i generally listen to V0
<jrwren> esp at new job where pipe is smaller.
<jrwren> but its nice to know that I can :)
<snap-l> I wish SB would transcode via ogg
<jrwren> i'm not a big ogg fan.
<jrwren> lame v0 loves my ears
<jrwren> the patents expire pretty soon.
<jrwren> well, 2015 and 2017. I think I'll have expiry parties!
<snap-l> Yeah, you and everyone else
<snap-l> I fully expect some lawsuits before then
<snap-l> kind of what happened with Unisys
<jrwren> good time to be a lawyer
<jrwren> http://www.tunequest.org/a-big-list-of-mp3-patents/20070226/  hey, one of 'em exp on Oct 16 this year!
<snap-l> I think ALU has some patents for mp3 as well
<snap-l> hey, first one in the article. :)
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i think I own shares in them, so i want them to win a bazillion dollar suit
<snap-l> SOmehow I think that would still punish their stock price
<jrwren> hehehe
<MaskedDriver> you guys see this? http://u.idltg.in/ietax
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Oh yeah.
<snap-l> I think it's brilliant
<MaskedDriver> definitely
<MaskedDriver> the time to make things work on old technology is almost as long as developing the frickin thing to start with
<snap-l> I wish there was a warning in ipython when it's run from /usrlocal/bin, and not from the VM. ;)
<snap-l> s/VM/Ve/
<derekv2> rick_h: for your targets to install software do you put a dependancy check on whether it is in the path ?
<derekv2> or otherwise check to see if it is there?
<rick_h>  derekv2 it depends. If I don't care about performance, I just run it
<rick_h> if I do care, then yea, I'll check for the actual item in path so that make will skip the execution
<_stink_> late to the party, yikes
<_stink_> rick_h: yep, you had the name right, stumpwm
<rick_h> _stink_: you still running it?
<_stink_> yessir
<derekv2>  you've inspired me sir, I think I'm going to hunt around for examples/tools/scripts to take your ideas and make them more multiplatform
<derekv2> I also want to take a look at cfengine ... I think its more like puppet but I'm curious.
<jrwren> snap-l: just remove ipython from /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin
<jrwren> cfengine is OLD. do people still use it?
<derekv2> jrwren: is it? its a commercial product I think... the company seems quite active
<rick_h> derekv2: yea, cfengine is really deprecated at this point
<derekv2> maybe i'm confused
<rick_h> well, I think the community opinion is that it's deprecated.
<rick_h> puppet/chef are the two big dogs these days
<derekv2> point is I want to make sure what is out there, if for no other reason then to get ideas
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<derekv2> what you need for system dependencies is a sort of "require" statement... which could maybe call out to something that takes care of platform specific installers
<rick_h> yea, I mean calling out to full things like puppet/chef makes sense.
<derekv2> ideally ... you need to grab only a couple things in order to get going
<derekv2> maybe lets say two/three things on windows
<derekv2> if you could include a sort of windows script to grab what you need to run the make file, have it spin from there
<derekv2> and then that script would be pretty much the same across projects
<derekv2> probably just download cygwin
<derekv2> maybe one day I can stop using windows.
<derekv2> *dream
<brousch> derekv2: That is why I lean towards pure Python solutions. Just pip install it and it works with the rest of your Python
<rick_h> heh, let me know how that pip install fabric works for you in windows :)
<brousch> yeaaaaaah
<derekv2> well I'm equally polyamorous when it comes to programming languages as I am with operating systems
<derekv2> windows is the odd guy out, almost everything is going to need exceptions for windows ...
<brousch> Right, but using pure Python solutions cuts down on those exceptions
<brousch> So you just need PYthon installed. Not Python + cygwin + ruby
<derekv2> well either python or perl or cygwin or something that provides a proper scripting ability
<derekv2> has to be downloaded
<derekv2> or you have to redo everything in something windowsish
<rick_h> I hear powershell rules these days :P
<derekv2> powershell is weird
<derekv2> it looks potentially powerful but ...
<greg-g> yay mutt!
<rick_h> hah! who woke greg-g up?
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h> greg-g: I'm jealous of your debian usage because the new notmuch-mutt package isn't in ubuntu repos :(
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> but it's in debian, so hoping that it gets sync'd for the next version, but not seeing it yet
<rick_h> I should probably look at some way to get that pulled across
<greg-g> I'm going to switch my work laptop over to debian tomorrow due to the crappy gnome-shell and now empathy issues (empathy in Ubuntu messed up my contacts list)
<rick_h> doh
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/v1czc/new_macbook_pro_wit_retina_a_comparison_of_text/
<rick_h> O...M...G this made me laugh out loud at the coffe shop https://twitter.com/mpirnat/status/213312554657783808
<_stink_> rick_h: hey, this seems like it should be on the yui gallery front page (or in the FAQ), but is there somewhere that shows how to load a gallery module?  i want to try this popup calendar thing.
<rick_h> if it's in the gallery, it's in the CDN
<rick_h> YUI().use('gallery-module-name', function (Y) {
<_stink_> rick_h: ah, fantastic.  thanks
<rick_h> https://github.com/yui/yui3-gallery
<rick_h> _stink_: they accept MP requests to that github repo and build those into the yahoo CDN with the other YUI CDN stuff
<jrwren> puppet/chef are great, but what is there like juju that is not juju?
<jrwren> i don't care about reddit comparison. I've already used the mbp retina. I know it is sweet ;p
<snap-l> It's interesting to see how many shortcuts MS took in their interface
<snap-l> You'd think they'd at least do SVG or something similar for the icons in the toolbar
<greg-g> yeah, this makes total sense. Even though I killed everything related to empathy/telepathy and then restarted empathy it wouldn't work. But after a restart of my machine (probably just a logout/in would have sufficed, but this is an SSD, why not a full restart?) empathy works just fine.
<rick_h> jrwren: well some of us believe that there's nothing like juju atm and that's what makes it handy
<greg-g> something tied in with their account management junk.
<snap-l> http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/jun/14/news-center-being-remodeled-facilitate-employee-re/ <- Ouch. Apparently the 10 folks working on Django were let go
<rick_h> ah, that must be what I saw when someone said they knew a bunch of great django people available for hire
<snap-l> sucks on the surface, but maybe it'll be the start of something more brilliant
<rick_h> yea, sounds like a company saying "so how much does this django stuff bring in? Oh, it's OSS? Wtf?"
<rick_h> ok, so I'm stretching it some...
<snap-l>  Though I'd curious how you expand your digital focus by tossing out your developer pool
<snap-l> Or it's a poorly worded way of saying they're released to build a consulting business outside of the paper
<snap-l> but still doing stuff for the paper as outside consultants
<jrwren> rick_h: that is exactly what I want to use to get an ubuntu cloud server in place here - juju is like none other and brings so much value that UCS is what we should be using
<jrwren> just found out about ipython notebok. cool
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I can't wait until the charm store finished fleshing out and they get multi-tenant going
<jrwren> sounds good
<brousch> rick_h: You should make a PPA for things like notmuch-mutt
<rick_h> brousch: yea, should
<brousch> Improve the state of tiling WMs on Ubuntu
<greg-g> wasted effort, your effort will just be overwritten/blocked eg: the gnome-shell issue
<derekv2> gpg --armor --gen-random 1 350 | sed 's/[^a-zA-Z0-0]//g' | cut -c-256
<greg-g> </end rant>
<derekv2> needed 256 random alphanumeric
<rick_h> brousch: except things work for me and I've gotten stuff running so motiviation to learn enuogh to do all that is low
<rick_h> I'm a lazy bum
<derekv2> 'openssl rand -base64 256'  should do the same.
<brousch> greg-g: And he's an inside man now
<jrwren> tilebuntu
<brousch> Catching up on lunch backscroll. Django guys got let go? That is rough
<derekv2> id install that
<brousch> At least there are a lot of Django jobs out there
<jrwren> what django guy got let go
<jrwren> ?
<brousch> snap-l posted it http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/jun/14/news-center-being-remodeled-facilitate-employee-re/
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not much in specifics
<snap-l> looking to find something more conclusive
<brousch> I saw a comment from alex gaynor earlier today, but didn't think much of it
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/v1lif/nokia_cuts_10000_jobs_dropping_their_entire_linux/
<snap-l> SPeaking of joyous news.
<snap-l> Have to wonder if any partnership with Microsoft has ever ended well
<jrwren> apple partnered with msft in 1998, got a 2B$ investment and proceded to take over the world.
<jrwren> so yes, a partnership wiht msft has ended well... errr... maybe not well for both parties.
<snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/apple-fans-lol.jpg
<snap-l> That was more of a friendship gesture
<snap-l> and is not the norm. :)
<brousch> Hah, awesome. I started creating a mock android module so I can test my project without going to a real Android device
<derekv2> here's a new one, got two computers both on the same switch
<derekv2> both can get to google for search, images, news
<derekv2> one can see gmail the other sits and spins
<snap-l> proxy?
<derekv2> something cached
<derekv2> works in safari
<derekv2> afk
<Milyardo> :source /home.ztv/zpowers//.byobu/profile
<snap-l> Milyardo: That's a hell of a line to mis-type into IRC. ;)
<greg-g> "I want zee powers!"
<jrwren> indeed.
<jrwren> he must have thought his vim was not responding
<snap-l> http://yurt.bandcamp.com/album/archipelagog-2011 <- I think you guys might rebel if I played one of the 12+ minute songs on OMC
<greg-g> I love epic songs
 * greg-g listens, likes it so far
<greg-g> snap-l: you should make an EPIC!!! OMC episode that is only 10minute minimum songs
<snap-l> There's a number of them that I haven't played because they are pretty damn long
<snap-l> greg-g: For Episode 50, maybe. ;)
<greg-g> thats the next one right?
<brousch> Hm, this SL4A Python mock module is becoming pretty cool. I think I'll put it on github
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-15
<rick_h> _stink_: http://www.amazon.com/YUI-3-Cookbook-ebook/dp/B0086I5M4W/ref=kinw_dp_ke?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
<rick_h> buying now to the kindle, woot
<derekv> http://www.amazon.com/Bluecell-Repair-Replacement-Unibody-Macbook/dp/B007ZW548E/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1339724446&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=mac+pro+screws and the rape-age begins
<derekv> but it comes with a free cable tie
<shakes808> good morning
<brousch> What's the favorite do what you want license? BSD?
<brousch> Man, I forgot how much work prepping a module for release to PyPi is
<brousch> Write up docs, get all the files in the right place
<MaskedDriver> anybody know of any good django books they can recommend? I learn best from physical books
<brousch> rick_h gave me all of his 2 years ago
<brousch> I could ship them to you
<brousch> mostly outdated
<brousch> MaskedDriver: There aren't any new book for Django
<MaskedDriver> brousch: where are you located? no need to ship if you're close enough
<brousch> I'm in Grand Rapids
<MaskedDriver> oh
<MaskedDriver> so not that close lol
<MaskedDriver> 2 years ago, probably not very relevant anymore
<brousch> I don't see a single book after 2009
<MaskedDriver> ok
<brousch> Ah, Django 1.1 testing and debugging, but it still only covers 1.1. Current version is 1.4
<brousch> There are 2 incomplete books you can download
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Djangodesignpatterns.pdf
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Djangodesignpatterns.pdf
<brousch> CC, so you are free to download
<brousch> Sorry, this is the second onehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/djenofdjango.pdf
<MaskedDriver> lol very incomplete
<MaskedDriver> thanks
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: If you can stomach eBooks, apress has the most up-to-date Django books
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: ok thanks
<MaskedDriver> ebooks are what I have my xyboard for
<brousch> snap-l: But they still only cover Django 1.1
<snap-l> Again, the most up-to-date books. ;)
<brousch> 2010 is the newest
<brousch> It's really kind of strange
<brousch> MaskedDriver: Did you try Flask yet?
<snap-l> brousch: That PDF of Django Design Patterns is incomplete.
<brousch> That's what I said :P
<snap-l> brousch: Incomplete is 5 chapters of an 11 chapter book
<snap-l> not 5 pages, all front-matter.
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> yeah that first one is 99% useless
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: You're way too kind
<MaskedDriver> hey, it gives me an idea of what could possibly maybe be in the book
<brousch> They didn't take my pull request for instructions to compile on Ubuntu on the design patterns book. They have probably abandoned it
<snap-l> A license, and a table of contents
<snap-l> and possibly a title page
<brousch> They did take my pull request on the Djen of Django, so maybe they are still working on that one
<snap-l> The other two nuggets of info are the Dive Into Python Book, and the Django Docs.
<snap-l> (links to)
<brousch> After the Django Docs, the Django TDD tutorial is really nice
<MaskedDriver> ok thanks guys
<brousch> Goes back through the official tutorial in a TDD manner
<brousch> OK, so I am trying to make my setup.py, but I need a version of a package that's only on github. How do I add that to my install_requires[]?
<jrwren> brousch: BSD or MIT are great do what you wants. CC0 is also possible if you don't even care about attribution
<brousch> hah! got it
<brousch> The geeker fixed a bug a year ago, and changed the verson on github, but never uploaded the fixed version to pypi
<PainBank> heya, for those that followed that 38 Studios big layoff a couple weeks ago.... here is a podcast with a lot of info about it... about the 20-25 minute mark...
<PainBank> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BobbyBlackwolfShow/~3/dSXKqWEycHk/BWShow052012.mp3
<PainBank> didn't know Curt Shilling owned that company...
<brousch> So apparently AWS went down around midnight and Heroku too
<derekv2> ?
<derekv2> wow
<Blazeix> yeah, i noticed netflix went kaput. that uses aws, right?
<widox> heh, yeah basically the internet stopped
<derekv2> doe heroku run on amazon?
<brousch> derekv2: looks like it
<jrwren> yes, they do.
<jrwren> i'm surprised heroku isn't big enough to run on thier own systems. they could increase margins by doing so
<derekv2> i'm sure they get different pricing
<derekv2> also think about opening multiple datacenters in geographically diverse locations
<jrwren> I actually doubt that they get different pricing.
<jrwren> netflix has already startd moving away from amzn for content. see recent articles on their new CDN
<krondor> it doesn't take too many events like that to justify a move from aws.  Didn't reddit do that a bit back too
<jrwren> well, you are SUPPOSED to design your app to run in multiple aws datacenters, but many don't.
<jrwren> AWS gave you fair warning.
<jrwren> netflix likely was not entirely down, just limping, becuase I know netflix is across data centers and they have thier well known chaos monkey
<nullspace> I've heard and read horrible preformance issues with heroku
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> link please?
<jrwren> you SHOULD be able to just throw more dynos at it, but that is only if your app was written to scale that way.
<nullspace> http://justcramer.com/2012/06/02/the-cloud-is-not-for-you/
<krondor> well and that rebutal to that; http://rdegges.com/heroku-isnt-for-idiots
<jrwren> nullspace: ty, excellent read.
<nullspace> I'm confused by the App cloud business model, they all seem way more expensive (except aws) then just a VPS
<jrwren> yes, they are.
<jrwren> but they are way more convenient.
<jrwren> a whole lot of web devs don't know how to admin any server, let alone a linux server
<nullspace> if you have a userbase already to go then I can see that
<jrwren> the apeal of git push heroku to them is huge
<nullspace> I can see that
<Milyardo> +1 to anything that encourages those kinds of people to use revision control in my book
<nullspace> though it only makes sense if they already have a product and are making profit of it
<jrwren> you get 1 free dyno at heroku, so it makes sense if you have no profit
<krondor> I guess reddit dropped EBS, not sure on AWS in general.  http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/january-2012-state-of-servers.html
<jrwren> EBS should be used sparingly and cautiously when designing to run on AWS
<jrwren> reddit, 240 servers. that is NUTS
<jrwren> compare with stackoverflow.
<jrwren> oh, well... i guess SO is a bit smaller, but not THAT much smaller.
<jrwren> in fact, 240 AWS instances is definitely around the point I'd start looking to selfhost
<jrwren> actually, far far before that.
<nullspace> time to buy a datacenter in a shipping crate
<krondor> google adplanner shows reddit as much larger than stackexchange, but I think that might not be fair comparison
<krondor> have to aggregate the stack sites
<krondor> reddit 2.7b page views/month, se+askubuntu+stackoverflow 260.7m page views/month
<krondor> still stackexchange was what 21-24 servers in 2011 and they're not 10 times smaller than reddit...
<jrwren> yes, that was my point.
<jrwren> and they were 4 servers to start, which is a great place to start. they scaled to damned huge on those 4 servers.
<krondor> yep, with thought and planning its impressive what you can do.  I wouldn't say reddit was a good example of an optimized site initially (they're getting much better recently though)
<rick_h> yea, reddit's been understaffed for years
<rick_h> it's going to be behind the eight ball
<rick_h> SE isn't that much smaller than reddit because of all those windows machines :P
<jrwren> ya know that point where you know the next test you need to write, but you really don't want to write it... been there all morning.
<jrwren> rick_h: if only that were true. its actually teh opposite.
<rick_h> nullspace: the advantage with the app hosts is that they admin and provide tools/apis for you to do sysadmin at the click of a button
<rick_h> I can scale my heroku app up to 5 instances in 2min
<rick_h> while scaling up 5 new vps's isn't happening for a bit
<rick_h> and the heroku model of supplying add-ins means I don't have to setup a vps for my app, one for postgres, setup memcache, scale up my memcache server, move it to it's own vps, etc
<rick_h> jrwren: yuck on the test, and :P on the windows jab
<rick_h> after all, you're not running ec2 small instances for that stuff
<jrwren> its not windows v. linux though. its app designed one way v. app designed another.
<rick_h> yea, but it is rare for big web things like that to be the windows stack. <3 SE and all that
<jrwren> indeed.
<rick_h> but I've got no pity for any large site that's not across multiple AV zones today
<rick_h> it's not like this lesson didn't come up for everyone last year
<jrwren> i'd love to see them move to linux and Mono :)
<rick_h> suck it up, do it right
<jrwren> AV?
<rick_h> sorry, availability zone, AZ my bad
<jrwren> ah, yes, agreed
<rick_h> sorry, catching up on backscroll
<brousch> I need my module to work as 'import android' but I don't really want it to be installed with 'pip install android'. Any idea how I configure that?
<rick_h> been putting the pooch in the hospital and all that, freaking mess of a night/day
<rick_h> brousch: change the name in setup.py to be android
<rick_h> but then don't make that the module
<rick_h> and also...don't do that. I HATE that
<brousch> Well it has to be import android to do what it needs to do
<rick_h> ugh, that sucks
<brousch> in SL4A you 'import android' to get access to all the Android API stuff
<brousch> I'm simulating that on the desktop, so I need the same module name
<rick_h> gotcha
<brousch> But it's too generic of a name for pypi
<rick_h> right, you can just change the package name in your setup.py to mock-android or something
<brousch> the first 'name'?
<rick_h> rgr
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h> roger
<MaskedDriver> 10-4 over and out
<brousch> rick_h: You are my hero
<rick_h> brousch: :) I trey
<rick_h> try, damn I can't type on no sleep
<brousch> Something wrong with your dog?
<rick_h> yea, she's had some kind of bad reaction to meds or something
<rick_h> was up the last two nights with puppy messes and today she's being hospitalized
<rick_h> now instead of sleep, I need to take this rented steam cleaner and pray some of it comes out of the carpets else break out the credit card for new floors
<brousch> Oh man, I hope she's OK
<rick_h> yea, they're thinking just bad reactions to the pain meds they sent her in on, but now she's all dehyrated and a mess, so they're keeping her for the day
<brousch> All right, My second thing on PyPi http://pypi.python.org/pypi/sl4a_pydroid_mock_api/
<MaskedDriver> gratz brousch
<rick_h> awesome man
<jrwren> my names not shirley and dont' call me roger.
<snap-l> And this afternoon, it's a cement cutter in front of the house. ;)
<jrwren> having an office is nice.
<jrwren> i was on the couch all morning.
<snap-l> Well, it's for our driveway, so it's expected
<jrwren> went to desk to eat, charge bat and work, then back to couch
<snap-l> http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/album/pretty-eight-machine
<jrwren> oh shit, I'm lame. I just wrote method missing in python *sigh*
<rick_h> implemented __call__ ?
<brousch> method missing?
<rick_h> ruby-ism
<rick_h> http://rubylearning.com/satishtalim/ruby_method_missing.html
<brousch> string him up!
<nullspace> what's his char_set encoding?
<nullspace> up = him.ToString()
<jrwren> actually, __getattr__
<jrwren> __call__ just makes an instance callable
<jrwren> whoa, cool think I learned about vim: / then ctrl-p&n to toggle through previous searches, and it navigates me through them.
<rick_h> jrwren: ah, thought you were more going after methods vs attrib access
<jrwren> turns out method call IS attr access that just happens to be callable and then it is called ;)
<rick_h> lol, wheeee
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> at first i thought i was being hacktastic, but i googled and found writing saying, YUP that is how it works.
<jrwren> that is python
<jrwren> YAY
<rick_h> yea, there are cool hooks for doing nice things. Seems hacky, but lets you implement the API you want to write
<rick_h> just wait until you start wanting to do some __new__ and metaclass stuff to make the code you write look like you want
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> i've read up, i think i'm capable of doing it if I need to.
<MaskedDriver> brousch: yeah.. using old docs is kind of annoying. Simple things like "maxlength" getting renamed to "max_length" can be a pain.
<greg-g> man, typing on any other keyboard now is annoying. love the kinesis
<rick_h> greg-g: :)
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, the whole middle section for thumb operation is really sweet
<jrwren> what kb is this?
<rick_h> kenisis http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
<rick_h> woot! two spdy articles on the front page of HN today
<derekv2> kinesis needs to come up with something new
<derekv2> I want them to make a countoured / split / bluetooth
<derekv2> they could have added a few extra buttons for programming
<greg-g> it has macros
<greg-g> and bluetooth? bah
<greg-g> ;)
<derekv2> i want someone to make a keyboard that works off my fingers directly, like initial or something.  or video
<derekv2> but just so that i twitch my fingers and letters happen
<derekv2> so that I'm not needing to carry around a kb thats a lot bulkier than my computer
<derekv2> or soon i'll just be stuffing the computer inside the kb and whoof! back we go 25 years
<derekv2> and yea it'd need a usb option
<snap-l> "Skype is written in the Qt framework which is multiplatform so this isn't very surprising. Microsoft litterally just has to write the code once and compile it on each OS and it works.
<snap-l> -- idiot on the internet award, 2012-06-15
<greg-g> always question a sentence that has the word "literally" in it
<snap-l> litterally
<greg-g> derekv2: actually, I was just thinking that I should shove a rasperry pi in this kinesi :)
<snap-l> as in "my cats litterally used their box"
<greg-g> snap-l: heh, more so then
<snap-l> http://io9.com/5918453/cooked-squid-inseminates-womans-tongue-cheek-and-gums
<jrwren> wtf?
<snap-l> Also a reminder that it's Free RPG day tomorrow
<snap-l> go get some loot, and make friends with your local gaming store.
<jrwren> does playing d3 all morning count?
<snap-l> jrwren: not really
<snap-l> but that just means more stuff for everyone else.
<jrwren> omfg, I think I'm python idiot nub
<jrwren> GAH!!! I FAIL AT LIFE!
<rick_h> jrwren: what did you do now?
<jrwren> i thought class A(object):\n  m=[]
<jrwren> m was an instance member, instead of a class member
<rick_h> ah
<rick_h> nope, because you can do A.m without ever creating an instance
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> i was just hoping for the shorthand syntax outside of init
<jrwren> guess there isn't one
<rick_h> yea, also watch out for the def method(self, books=[])
<jrwren> yeah, already doing that reasonably well.
<rick_h> that catches new devs as well
<jrwren> plus, pylint!
<rick_h> oh, does pylint warn on using mutable defaults?
<jrwren> I believe so.
<rick_h> ah, good stuff then
<jrwren> let me see :)
<rick_h> yea, the 'shortcut' for the init is to just do kwargs
<jrwren> W0102:432,0:main: Dangerous default value [] as argument
<rick_h> but figure if you were goint to do a bunch of m=[], doing __init__(self): m=[] is only one line more
<rick_h> ah, nice. This is why I love lint tools
<jrwren> ditto
<rick_h> but cool, check out @classmethod and your original idea with m = [] and you can do some cool stuff with constant-like and static like behaviors
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-16
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/Bookie-Android/commits/master
<derekv> It does something now
<derekv> I won't be working on it for a week or so
<derekv> no intents yet
<rick_h> awesome, looking
<rick_h> derekv: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/static/js/bookie/model.js is the JS api implementation. You can probably crib off that some for things like attribs in the bookmark model, etc
<rick_h> if that helps at all
<derekv> i got a developers challage with one week
<derekv> tonight is beer and code
<rick_h> sweet
<derekv> tommorow is code and workout and code
<derekv> sunday is code and fathersday dinner and code
<derekv> =]
<derekv> then also code a work
<rick_h> oh man, it's fixed! woot!
<rick_h> ok, if you guys can find a site it blows up on please let me know. All known bad sites aprse correctly now! http://readable.bmark.us
<rick_h> fix bugs == time to get a snack and check out the AMZ streaming movie selection
<derekv> i thought i was going to be up late tonight hacking but after eating and having a beer I realized that isn't happening
<derekv> given the choice between that or going to bed now hacking in the AM i definately want sleep
<derekv> this marks officially the moment I did become an old man
<rick_h> lol congrats derekv
<rick_h> greg-g: dude no way on the U1 stuff. Did you ping @sil and see if maybe there's a chance of some magic?
<jrwren> what i a developer challenge?
<jrwren> *what is
<brousch> I challenge you to crack into the DoD and retrive info on roswell
<rick_h> lol brousch
<rick_h> lol sorry to hear about the pup as well
<brousch> It is unbelievably stinky
<brousch> I grew up in the country and have smelled skunk a thousand times, but this is way beyond anything I've experienced
<brousch> We locked the dog on the 20ftx20ft sun porch for an hour and it became impossible to breath in there. Like chemical warfare
<brousch> He doesn't even seem to care
<rick_h> ugh
<brousch> It looks like the skunk was under our deck and he found it
<brousch> Smell spot out back too
<brousch> Wow, gave me a headache walking through there
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> Gonna have to throw out the dogs' couch. Duncan laid his skunk-sprayed head on it and it reeks
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> hope you have enough tomato juice.
<derekv> jrwren, for a job where i'm applying, they gave me a coding task. calling it a developer's challange.
<derekv> i just got a link-in/facebook style email from twitter
<derekv> it says "here's what your missing" and then just a bunch of random tweets from my stream
<derekv> what a fail
<snap-l> Yeah, I turned that shit off
<derekv> i never saw it before
<derekv> seems antithesis to how twitter works
<snap-l> yes
<snap-l> but it's a convenient way to ship ads.
<derekv> its like all these businesses just want to make money
<snap-l> Yeah, it's like they don't like charity
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L1BL_nkq64w#!
<snap-l> I think I would have played the hell out of tis game
<greg-g> anyone know a way to tell e2fsck to assume "yes" for all questions after it has been invoked?
 * greg-g is getting tired of holding down the y key
<greg-g> ef it, just ctrl-c'd and restarted with -y
<greg-g> rick_h: not yet, trying old harddrives I have laying around
<greg-g> so, this ssd was in fact totally toast
<greg-g> on to the next drive....
<greg-g> alright, all 3 drives are of no use (2 dead, and one didnt have the data, wasn't probable it would, just had to check)
<rick_h> greg-g: :( so what happened? Your laptop SSD went boom and the files weren't there when you re-setup U1 on a system?
<greg-g> must have. At some point my Grad_School folder lost all files, but the folders were in tact (so I didn't notice). eg: Grad_Schoo/SI-507/Assignments/ existed but was empty
<greg-g> so, all of my backups on my RAID1 etc were just copying empty folders
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> and nothing on your colo server thing?
<rick_h> yea, that's the suck part. A backup strategy will copy/backup empty folders
<greg-g> and since I have it set to --delete (rysnc) (since I didn't want duplicates everywhere if I moved things) my backups were useless
<rick_h> yea, I made sure not to do that on my sync to the NAS I got, so it'll rsync overwrite empty files, but doesn't remove deleted onces
<rick_h> but ugh
<greg-g> and, since I trusted that system (hey, its on no less than two laptops and U1's servers!) I didn't included the U1 folder in my incremental backups
<rick_h> well, hopefully the U1 guys can do something for you. Much as I want to be a U1 lover, if it was dropbox they keep versions so the old ones would be avail I think
<greg-g> so, yeah, bad harddrive will cascading failures from there :(
<rick_h> always the way, backups never seem to work like they're supposed to when you need them. Sorry man
<greg-g> yeah, I was totally depressed/shocked last night, didn't get to bed until 1:30am, which when Rowan wakes up at 5:30.... heh
<brousch> greg-g: ug, that sucks
<brousch> SSD died?
<snap-l> Howdy
<snap-l> Went to Guild of Blades for Free RPG day. They were completely slammed around 12:30pm
<rick_h> phew, ok done with yard projects for the year
<brousch> rick_h: in your dreams
<rick_h> brousch: but please?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-17
<snap-l> I am slightly tipsy from Bru Fest
<derekv> took me all day to get the first milestone
<derekv> I was pretty add today though
<derekv> I didn't really feel like I got down to it until like 8
<derekv> though of course I did work the rest of the day
<derekv> need foodz
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Happy Fathers Day
<snap-l> Ouch, CPU unit is 60C
<snap-l> (on the mobo)
<snap-l> I think filter cleaning needs to be a weekly thing on this case.
<snap-l> +55.0C
<rick_h> happy father's day all the dads out there
<snap-l> MB Temperature:    +54.0Â°C
<snap-l> Just from banging out the filters.
<brousch> I got a nice blueray player with DLNA and netflix and USB built-in
<brousch> replaces the DVD player, media player, and the network media player I hadn't even bought yet
<rick_h> nice!
<rick_h> my laptop/japanese maple are considered father's day items for me
<rick_h> and dinner tonight woot!
<brousch> Taking you out?
<brousch> LAptop is a good gift
<rick_h> yea, going to hit up of changs tonight
<rick_h> I've got the day to myself until the afternoon
<brousch> ooooh, nice
<rick_h> greg-g: congrats on the sleep in.
<brousch> Hehe
<greg-g> rick_h: it was Rowan's present to me :)
<rick_h> greg-g: heh, wife got the boy and took him out the house first thing. I got to sleep in until 8:30
<rick_h> ahhhhhh
<rick_h> father's day rules lol
<rick_h> greg-g: sounds like good news from sil hopefully, got my fingers crossed for you
<rick_h> look at all the stupid links in the article http://scripting.com/stories/2012/06/15/theTechPressIsOutToLunch.html they're the little # and such
<rick_h> inspect those and check out the name="" and href=""
<rick_h> and then...butt kicked http://goo.gl/yHzKm
<rick_h>  ":)
<rick_h> minus the stray "
<greg-g> rick_h: maybe, I don't know how far back their backups go. My backup from Nov 2011 wasn't far enough :/
<rick_h> ouch
<rick_h> heh, recruiting CHC people
<rick_h> saw my python stick on the laptop and asked if I did python, he's one of the guys doing this lisp group widox and Blazeix were peeking at I guess
<rick_h> "So do you do python?" hehe, umm yep
<rick_h> greg-g: I'm trying http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11072655/firefox-font-face-fail-with-fontawesome
<Blazeix> lisp group? i'm not familiar with that
<rick_h> Blazeix: didn't that come up at the last CHC. There's a lisp group starting up in detroit area on a wed night
<greg-g> stupid question, but what would be the correct way of representing the directory "/home/greg/src/" as a regexp to include in a config file?
<rick_h> some of the people at CHC were talking about heading to it. Guess this guy is from the company hosting that and some new Detroit LUG
<rick_h> greg-g: not following. As a regexp?
<greg-g> yeah, so, the config has an option for an exlude to exclude certain files/folders
<rick_h> ah, you want to excluse it?
<rick_h> so usually I'd just do ~/src/*
<rick_h> if it's not run as your user though then /home/greg/src/*
<greg-g> but aren't / special chars?
<greg-g> in regex
<rick_h> It depends on what it's doing with it
<rick_h> it might not be a regex, but a glob
<rick_h> and a glob isn't special with /
<greg-g> config says "regex"
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> ah not sure then
<greg-g> --exclude=EXCLUDE regular expression for pathnames to exclude from backup (can  be used multiple times)
<rick_h> you can just try to \/ them
 * greg-g nods
 * greg-g tries
<rick_h> ah, ok. you know what. / isn't special in just a regex match
<rick_h> it would be in vim since it's a seperator
<rick_h> so I'd just do /home/greg/src
<rick_h> try it: http://regexpal.com/
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> so i think this is working: exclude: /home/greg/src/.*, /home/greg/.mozilla/.*
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> exclude: /home/greg/src/.*, /home/greg/Audiobooks/.*, /home/greg/Books/.*, /home/greg/Games
<greg-g> /.*, /home/greg/gpodder-downloads/.*, /home/greg/Music/.*, /home/greg/Other/.*, /home/greg/
<greg-g> Pictures/.*, /home/greg/Podcasts/.*, /home/greg/Pictures\ -\ VM670/.*, /home/greg/Software/.*, /home/greg/Videos/.*, /home/greg/VirtualBox\ VMs/.*
<greg-g> did the trick :)
<rick_h> awesome
<rick_h> jrwren: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/154 fixed
<greg-g> whoa, weird, I got a real (ie: non spam) email with a subject of "Hello?"
<rick_h> ouch
<rick_h> suprised it made it through
<greg-g> yeah, the content wasn't that impressive either ;)
<rick_h> long lost schoolmate?
<greg-g> no, weird person emailing my work account with a suggestion of how I should do something heh
<rick_h> lol
<greg-g> for the metadata project
<greg-g> metadata brings out the weirdos ;)
<rick_h> wow, looking at a full 6hr batter life on this 6cell on the new laptop
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> x230?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> 50% and keeping tabs today and 3hrs in almost to the nose
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> heh, the domain of the person who emailed me with "Hello?" http://sunriseresearch.org/
<greg-g> kind of fitting
<snap-l> raining
<Blazeix> correct
<greg-g> incorrect
<rick_h> yea, rain is good
<greg-g> rain is good, we just don't get any in the summer here
<greg-g> just fog at night
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-10
<rick_h__> quite the google doodle this morning
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Oh geez
<snap-l> That's awesome. :)
<snap-l> Poor dude died last year
<jrwren_> happy apple announce overhype day. good morning
<brousch> I had not seen any hype until you just now
<jrwren_> i wanted to get it started.
<jrwren_> zomg ipad mini 2 retina with thunderbolt and part of steve's ghost.
<snap-l> jrwren_: Yawn
<snap-l> I was really hoping for Super Retina displays, Thunderbolt 2.0, and Steve Jobs ghost on timeshare.
<snap-l> Time to short Apple.
<brousch> snap-l: This is making me cry http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/Black_Sabbath/13/373514/droneriot
<brousch> "You thought St Anger was bad? You thought that was the furthest the mighty can fall? Try listening to 13. It will blow your mind how one of the best bands in the history of music can make one of the worst albums to ever have existed. Listen, cringe, but don't buy. Fuck this shit."
<snap-l> brousch: Considering these were the same guys that made the band Heaven and Hell with Dio, this is a bit surprising
<snap-l> but unfortunately not unexpected.
<brousch> I cannot listen to Dio. I hated his vocals
<snap-l> brousch: I'm going to gforget your little blasphemy there
<brousch> Bah, I'm already on your list for hating Tool
<rick_h__> what?!
<snap-l> but yeah, they're the Yngwie J Malmsteen of vocals.
 * rick_h__ remembers now...that tool hatin fool
 * snap-l cranks up Dio - Holy Diver
<brousch> I'll take DuckGrind over Dio any day
<snap-l> Dude, Dio _is_ metal.
<snap-l> That's like saying you like Fantasy but hating J R R Tolkein
<rick_h__> well I don't hate it...but it is a bit ugh
<snap-l> It's overdone
<snap-l> on both counts. ;)
<brousch> Easily half of all metal vocals annoy me
<snap-l> Also brousch, what of Dio have you heard outside of just one song?
 * snap-l shudders to think what brousch thinks of Geoff Tate then
<brousch> I have like 3 CDs of Dio
<snap-l> Ok, that's 2 more than I have. ;)
<brousch> Black Sabbath Live I think
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Live-Evil-CD-Black-Sabbath/dp/B001EOOQEW
<brousch> https://github.com/plausibility/flask-nsa
<jrwren_> Black Sabbath's Paranoid is one of the best metal albums of all time.
<jrwren_> omfg, omfg, omfg, omfg https://soundcloud.com/androidlust/worlock
<brousch> I prefer Black Sabbath, but your opinion is acceptable
<snap-l> jrwren_: Wow
<snap-l> goosebumps
<jrwren_> yeah.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFygHIEvxVY&lch
<rick_h__> kind of cool
<snap-l> rick_h__: Which, the cover of Worlock, or the Neurotech preview?
<rick_h__> neurotech
<snap-l> rick_h__: yeah, I'm looking forward to this album. :)
<snap-l> The direction is a little more poppy, but I think it'll be pretty awesome.
<rick_h__> snap-l: has a bit of the oblivion soundtrack sound to it
<snap-l> At least it won't be fucking dubstep
<snap-l> *cough*Celldweller*cough*
<jrwren_> I know. wtf happened to Celldweller. ugh.
<snap-l> Not sure
<snap-l> but he's local, so we could visit him and ask.
<snap-l> I <3 Industrial folks: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117777908934895049975/posts/C7UUJ3Jxv8e
<snap-l> I swear, for a genre so heavily based in sampling and regurgitation, indurtrial music is one of the most fundamentalist genres out there
<jrwren_> yup.
<jrwren_> because WE LOVE IT
<jrwren_> i went to Project pitchfork a couple of weeks ago and the crowd was small. Me and some rivethead were yelling how song titles from late 80s early 90s releases.
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h__> lol, osx sea lion
<brousch> not Aslan?
<rick_h__> mavericks
<rick_h__> sea lion was a joke
<snap-l> never order something from Amazon on a Friday
<rick_h__> snap-l: ?
<snap-l> Because no matter how hard you wish, it won't show up on Monday. :)
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> yea, I've got a boat load coming on wed from the weekend.
<jrwren_> good joke.
<snap-l> Just registered for PyOhio.
<snap-l> Apparently the new macintosh pro is going to be a database server, as it's just one big cylinder. ;)
<brousch> I'm afraid to check my twitters as they will be covered by macboy sppoge
<jcastro> it's pretty much a dork fest
<jcastro> SINGLE BUTTON TO ADJUST BRIGHTNESS ON MY PHONE, HOLY CRAP.
<jcastro> Hah, Bing in Siri
<jcastro> awesome.
<snap-l> Seriously?
<snap-l> Slow clap, Apple.
<brousch> Flat icons, Bing, what's next? C# replacing Objective-C and Apple Cloud on Azure?
<snap-l> brousch: Just you shut your ugly mouth RIGHT NOW.
<jrwren_> omg, C# replacing objc would be great.
<jrwren_> it wouldn't surprise me if apple's server infrastructure is bigger than azure :p
<rick_h__> and check your stopwatch. jrwren_ came in a little slower than expected
<brousch> Siri has been replaced by Clippy
<jrwren_> ya know what would be even better?  GO instead of objc :)
<snap-l> jrwren_: Yeah, that'll happen
<snap-l> I'd put more money on Safari moving to IE than ObjC being replaced with Go
<snap-l> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76DRgo7n7qo/UbYe2n1BFDI/AAAAAAAC7zY/hCM2hD5-g00/w730-h411-no/6C7810709-screen-shot-2013-06-10-2-27-01-pm-2.blocks_desktop_large.jpeg <- Wow, this looks for all the world like a mockup, not a finished product
<jrwren_> agree. it looks like a toy.
<snap-l> I think we now know what post-Jobs apple will look like
<brousch> Like MS?
<snap-l> Looking that way
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-11
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> No. We're all getting some sickness
<snap-l> Ugh, that's not good
<snap-l> JoDee's been fighting the allergy creeping crud for weeks now
<rick_h__> yea, sick boy at home today so ugh here as well
<snap-l> :(
<snap-l> btw: MUG meeting tonight
<snap-l> High Performance Computing
<snap-l> Tried to get work to have a Charity Jeans Day for the EFF. Unfortunately it's hard to convince folks that the EFF is not a political organization
<snap-l> Also hard to come up with computing / technology charities that don't come off as "that's nice, dear"
<jrwren_> good morning
<snap-l> Offered up Child's Play and Wikimedia
<rick_h__> heh
<snap-l> Hey, if it means I can wear jeans, I'd support seal clubbing
<snap-l> I'm easy that way. ;)
<jrwren_> wtf is a jeans day?
<jrwren_> why couldn't you wear jeans?
<snap-l> Because we're in a cubicle environment
<snap-l> and dress code is such that we don't normally wear jeans
<snap-l> It's like going to Catholic School again. :)
<jrwren_> dress code, wow.
<jrwren_> how soon I forget.
<snap-l> jrwren_: Yeah, and they don't even have a Foosball table
<snap-l> It's like Stalag 13. ;)
<snap-l> But on the plus side, I can listen on my headphones, and I run Ubuntu on my machine
<jrwren_> pingpong?
<snap-l> jrwren_: No, but they have a Keurig
<snap-l> Industrial strength beastie
<snap-l> http://www.keurig.com/brewers/b3000se
<jrwren_> nice
<jrwren_> not all bad then
<snap-l> Yeah, so if it means I have to put on khakis instead of jeans, I'll manage.
<snap-l> but I'll do everything in my power to wear jeans as much as possible
<snap-l> hence the intial onus for charities to give money to in order to wear said jeans
<jrwren_> i prefer non jeans to jeans anyway.
<jrwren_> and its sweet that you get to raise money for EFF
<snap-l> Well, unfortunately no
<snap-l> EFF was too political for them
<snap-l> so I'm looking for alternatives.
<jrwren_> GNU? :)
<snap-l> THought about it
<snap-l> but I'd rather the office didn't show up in three-piece suits in protest. ;)
<snap-l> Actually, GNU might not be a bad one since we use their stuff
<snap-l> but it's a hard sell next to "feeding homeless orphans" or "stomp out debilitating disease"
<snap-l> "Free Software" <- "I already get all my software online for free anyway".
<jrwren_> snap-l: those are good ones.
<jrwren_> snap-l: the bad one that gets all the money is the Komen Foundation.
<snap-l> Yeah, and I have a hard time supporting the UNited Way as well
<snap-l> UW is extremely forceful in trying to get money.
<jrwren_> they have a well trained sales force :)
<snap-l> They have programs where employees can be shamed into giving
<snap-l> I do not condone their practices.
<jrwren_> rick_h__: http://blog.futurefoundries.com/2013/04/unittesting-with-localized-patching.html
<jrwren_> or hell, pythonistas ^
<rick_h__> jrwren_: cool, yea. I think people dump to DI to quick in languages that allow such flexibilility like python/js
<jrwren_> me too
<rick_h__> lol! I need some of these! http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42207&p=70788
<snap-l> rick_h__: Dude, totally
<snap-l> along with a brown leather top hat
<snap-l> http://images.villagehatshop.com/media/images/viewer/194211-1/medium_194211-11.jpg
<jrwren_> i just love replacing a modules module instance temporarily with that with block. that is a great hack
<brousch> Weird. I was just thinking about that kind of thing in today's Safety Committee Meeting
<brousch> rick_h__'s goggles, that is
<snap-l> http://www.villagehatshop.com/head-n-home-curio-leather-top-hat-brown.html
<greg-g> rick_h__: only $10, why not?!
<brousch> Ah, not rated for industrial
<greg-g> that just means jrwren_ shouldn't get one
<greg-g> he wouldn't be able to take em to the club
<snap-l> Are they at least rated for dark wave?
<snap-l> cold wave even?
 * snap-l still doesn't know what the difference is between dark wave, cold wave, and electropop
<snap-l> not that I care either
 * greg-g shrugs
<brousch> Crap. Only 2 weeks to move my ass off of Google Reader
<rick_h__> yea, removed reader from my phone today, along with the listen podcast app
<brousch> What are you using?
<rick_h__> newsblur and dogcatcher
<brousch> I live in Reader and Listen
<rick_h__> though I keep having this idea of ditching rss for a week and see what happens
<snap-l> I used BeyondPod for podcatching
<snap-l> until I moved everything to the Squeezebox
<rick_h__> I've paid for pocketcasts and I guess they do sync'ing
<rick_h__> dogcatcher has syncing in a beta program I need to get into
<rick_h__> would be cool to listen to podcasts across tablet and phone
<snap-l> Pocketcasts interface really bugged me
<rick_h__> yea, why I went to dogcatcher
<rick_h__> been using it on the tablet for months, but not moved on the phone
<snap-l> Neat thing about the Squeezebox: it'll read from an OPML file
<snap-l> so you can use a text editor to manage your podcasts, and not have to use their shit interface
<snap-l> I just added the file as one of my favorites
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/100086272#notice-101260681
<snap-l> I think I'm going to take an identi.ca / pumpio holiday when the changeover happens.
<brousch> Ug. The newsblur interface is giving me hives
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, it's ugh
<rick_h__> brousch: spend some time tweaking it and you can tone it down
<rick_h__> brousch: http://uploads.mitechie.com/lp/newsblur.png is how mine looks
<brousch> It's all so busy
<brousch> yours is better
<rick_h__> yea, go through the options and such
<rick_h__> took me a few days to get it to where I didn't want to stab something
<brousch> I'm in the sandbox
<rick_h__> still not a huge fan, but oh well
<brousch> I wonder if I could live without an Android app
<snap-l> brousch: One way to find out. Delete your Google Reader app on your phone
<snap-l> not like you won't be doing that in 2 weeks anyway.
<brousch> True
<brousch> I rarely use it on the phone, but often on my tablet
<jrwren_> rick_h__: i need advice on those testing fakes.
<jrwren_> should I include all the fake things in a single context or use many contexts?
<rick_h__> jrwren_: so personally I like using the Mock library to use @patch decorators to take care of the bits I need in the single context.
<rick_h__> jrwren_: then I might just add patches I use a lot into $Mymodule.testing as pre-written function helpers
<jrwren_> rick_h__: awesome. I don't know what you just said, but it sounds awesome.
<rick_h__> jrwren_: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/patch.html + http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0417/
<snap-l> I'm glad I'm not the only one. ;)
<rick_h__> jrwren_: with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/charmworld/trunk/view/head:/charmworld/tests/test_models.py#L983 as a potential example using it as a context mgr vs a decorator
<jrwren_> Foord's page is 503 :(
<rick_h__> oh hmm, loaded here
<jrwren_> oh, does after a reload, wierd :(
<rick_h__> http://mock.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
<rick_h__> http://mock.readthedocs.org/en/latest/patch.html tbe
<snap-l> Oh wow, that's nice.
<rick_h__> yea, the Mock library really helped me get into testing more.
<rick_h__> fits my brain a lot better and it's going into the stdlib in 3.3 or 3.4?
<rick_h__> 3.3
<rick_h__> so cool to get on board with one in the stdlib
<jrwren_> cool.
<rick_h__> but anyway, in that patching os example, I'd just have patch'd it local to my test
<jrwren_> /usr/local/bin/python3.3: No module named mock
<jrwren_> oh, unittest.mock
<jrwren_> nevermind
<brousch> greg-g: Is there an Geodata API for wikipedia ?
<greg-g> brousch: first DuckDuckGo result: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/01/31/geodata-a-new-age-of-geotagging-on-wikipedia/ ;)
<snap-l> rick_h__: Coming to MUG tonight?
<rick_h__> snap-l: maybe
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h__> http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-10/infrastructure/39871911_1_top-500-list-tianhe-1-petaflops
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> greg-g: http://uistage.jujucharms.com/precise/mediawiki-8/
<rick_h__> front page woot http://uistage.jujucharms.com/fullscreen/
<snap-l> nice.
<rick_h__> 6mo work finally on by default yay
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> TIme for the heavy drinking. :)
<rick_h__> heh, missed the jobs section of the meeting :P
<snap-l> I think you'll manage
<snap-l> Trust me, working for the auto companies is ... suboptimal
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> THink of me as your career Titanic. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-12
<snap-l> http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/
<rick_h__> morning
 * rick_h__ needs more sleep
<widox_> whoa trevlar, having some issues?
<trevlar> do I keep disconnecting?
<trevlar> hmm yeah didn't notice
<trevlar> not sure if it was comcast or what. sorry for the flood :/
<snap-l> Good mornign
<snap-l> https://bmark.us/craig/recent/deal?count=50&page=0#
 * snap-l is finding a use for Bookie as a URL shortener. ;)
<jrwren_> how can I make python be like perl -p ?
<jrwren_> python -c 'import sys;for line in sys.stdin.readlines(): print line' says error
<snap-l> jrwren_: I'm sure there's a way, but I've never explored it
<snap-l> seems like one of those "you're doing it wrong" things.
<snap-l> even though it's likely supported
<snap-l> "This is a big change, consumers don't always love change, and there's a lot of education we have to provide to make sure that people understand."
<jrwren_> i gave up.
<jrwren_> then i ran into other pythonisms.
<jrwren_> python is a nice language.
<snap-l> This statement is going into every business management book as how not to do PR with your customers
<snap-l> jrwren_: It's no perl / awk drop-in. ;)
<jrwren_> yup
<snap-l> How's the afternon treating everyone?
<greg-g> not there yet
<snap-l> Well hurry up, dammit
<snap-l> Pretty soon it'll be evening and you'll just be starting the afternoon
<snap-l> amateurs
<greg-g> lazy coast
<jrwren_> rick_h: help me with my python, you are my only hope.
<jrwren_> i've go a module level function which then imports another module which I need to patch. is there any hope for me?
<jrwren_> I htink I should just move the import statement to the top of file. who knows, maybe I'll get better perf by only importing once?
<jrwren_> yes, that is what I shall do.
<jrwren_> thank you rubberduck rick_h
<greg-g> rubber ducky you're the one, you make bathtime lots of fun
<snap-l> We've secretly replaced rick_h with a rubber ducky. Let's see if anyone notices.
<rick_h> hah, no one will notice
<rick_h> jrwren_: yes, conditional imports like that tend to be more pita than they're worth for most modules
<rick_h> jrwren_: and make for non-obvious bugs when you don't see the import
<rick_h> though sometimes circular imports drive you batty and end up forcing it :(
<jrwren_> plus... why not import a module which imports lots of other modules every time a function is called :)
<rick_h> well, python will only import once
<rick_h> it's a manual step to re-import something
<jrwren_> i thought it reruns the module commands?
 * jrwren_ tests
<rick_h> jrwren_: no, only does on the first time, then it's in the sys.modules or some magic place and doesn't re-import
<rick_h> it's why using things like ipython/etc are a pita sometimes when you're changing the module you're tinkering with
<rick_h> some provide a shortcut to force a re-import
<jrwren_> indeed.
<jrwren_> i knew reimport was differnt
<jrwren_> but I really thought it ran the module statements again. shows wtf I knew.
<rick_h> yes, it's a bit more performant than that. Why it's not much better than just importing it on startup at the top of the file
<rick_h> only big things that you might not need (numpy or such?) might be worth cheating and importing at use time
<jrwren_> cherrypy
<jrwren_> *sigh*
<jrwren_> anyone know offhand how cherrypy 2.2.1's dispatcher works? :)
<rick_h> magic :)
<rick_h> I looked at it long ago :/
<jrwren_> ugh
<snap-l> I'm not a fan of magic in my code
<greg-g> all you judgemental scientists, could use a bit more magic in your lives
<greg-g> </sfhippy>
<jrwren_> its not really magic.
<rick_h> heads up, we don't have the room at CHC tonight. Last time this year it looks like
<snap-l>  Ah, so we're amongst the commoners then?
<rick_h> yep
<rick_h> kind of empty tonight so hopefully stays that way
<wolfger> you people and your coding
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> I don't know if I can even remember how to write a Perl script anymore
<snap-l> #!/usr/bin/perl
<snap-l> print "Aw, fuck it";
<snap-l> There you go
<wolfger>  n
<wolfger> m"m
<wolfger> and if that doesn't look right, you need a monospace font :-p
<greg-g> middle finger?
<wolfger> +1
<wolfger> I may not code anymore, but I'll still tell the Perl-haters to suck it
<rick_h> wtf, did they make wolfger a manager or something? why for no coding?
<wolfger> I do believe they are trying to turn me into a manager
<wolfger> and in my spare time I've been... distracted? lazy? something else? all of the above?
<wolfger> I had to actually think about PLC coding today for the first time in I don't know how long, and the rust really showed.
<wolfger> and that's what I used to do for a living. That was what I was a star at.
<wolfger> <shrug> I'm working on starting up a microbrewery. To hell with the tech industry. :-)
<greg-g> really?
<wolfger> fo' realz
<wolfger> putting together a business plan, trying to figure out exactly how much cash I need to make a viable go of it
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> where abouts?
<wolfger> how much beer I need to sell to at least stay afloat
<greg-g> all I saw was "beer ... float"
<wolfger> I'm looking for near home. There's a dearth of microbreweries in NE Macom and St. Clair counties
<wolfger> lol
<wolfger> s/Macom/Macomb/
<wolfger> at least I still remember simple regex....
<wolfger> Once I have a plan and some cash I'll start hunting for a lease place within bicycle distance.
<greg-g> good plan
<wolfger> It won't be close to my partner's house, but he wants to move anyway :-p
<greg-g> sounds like your going to force the issue ;)
<wolfger> the tough part will be getting it up and running while keeping the day job, but if I keep my current position I'm pretty solid on 40 hours no weekends, so... I'll just have no life
<greg-g> or sleep
<greg-g> s/or/and/
<greg-g> alright, speaking of, time to head home
<greg-g> later
<greg-g> good luck wolfger, keep your old pals informed!
<wolfger> DragonMead had wonky hours when they started out, and they became very successful, so I know it's *possible*
<wolfger> o/ greg-g
<wolfger> but yeah, I seem to be on my last project as a guy who actually does stuff (very losely defined). My next project I will be babysitting other people who are (very loosely) doing stuff. It's like they're trying to force managerdom on me
<snap-l> wolfger: I believe they called it "Being the team lead"
<snap-l> Which was essentially being a project manager without the paygrade
<wolfger> bingo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-13
<snap-l> howdy. :)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_(program_type)
<snap-l> http://www.baenebooks.com/p-481-young-miles.aspx
<snap-l> http://www.baenebooks.com/p-278-miles-errant.aspx
<snap-l> Also, that not being currently available: fuck that.
<rick_h> snap-l: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2f3uho6gzrlwhg/2013-06-12%2022.27.08.jpg
<snap-l> Geeez
<snap-l> rick_h: That's a lot of stiff
<rick_h> so yea, first words out of my wife "what did you order?!"
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> Also, dog eye glow = A+
<rick_h> I should take a pic of it sitting ont he dining table
<rick_h> unpacked and all
<rick_h> got one of these at meijer today for our outside toy deck box http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-1500iD-Combination-Assorted/dp/B002TSN4SQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371092683&sr=8-2&keywords=master+lock+speed+dial
<rick_h> kind of cool
<rick_h> wouldn't trust my giant bars of gold with it, but for a box of balls and bats it's neat/simple
<snap-l> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/cryoburn.iso.gz
<snap-l> Has versions of all of the Lois McMaster Bujold books
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> Maybe. I woke up at 4am from coughing and have been up since then. However I feel better since coughing up a nasty lugie
<snap-l> um, yay?
<brousch> Maybe I've turned the corner on this cold
<snap-l> If it's anything like the allergies JoDee's been fighting, you'll need to see a doc to help make that happen
<snap-l> she's been miserable for weeks now
<snap-l> I'd like to think it's the allergies and not me. ;)
<brousch> LinkedIn endorsements crack me up
<brousch> People I barely know are endorsing me for RoR
<snap-l> brousch: Maybe they know future-you. ;)
<snap-l> Or alternate universe you.
<brousch> Would alternate universe brousch use RoR or C#?
<snap-l> There's plenty of alternate universes to have you using both
<snap-l> heck, maybe even inventing both. ;)
<snap-l> JoDee measured 1.9 inches of rain in our rain gauge.
<jjesse> wow
<jjesse> we got hardly any at my house
<rick_h> got a bunch here
<snap-l> Yeah, and it was still raining when she took the measurement
<snap-l> jjesse: I think the cells formed as they moved across the state
<jjesse> my phone went off with an emergency alert
<jjesse> about thee storms
 * rick_h feels like in college again... picked up a fluke multi-meter and having flashbacks to my awful Physics2 college class watching youtube videos about using it
<jjesse> and then it was biscally nothing
<brousch> jjesse: I'm surprised. There was a lot at 401 Hall St and by my house
<jjesse> lot of lightining in alger heights, some rain at 11pm but by 11:15 or so it was over
<brousch> rick_h: How the heck did you have youtube in college?
<rick_h> brousch: :P
<jjesse> brousch, it took him a loooooong time to get through college :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Did you just pick that up on a lark, or was that part of the camping "plan"?
<rick_h> snap-l: part of the camping plan :) need to be able to check wiring and the batteries on the camper
<rick_h> snap-l: but I've kind of always wanted one for house stuff and the like
<brousch> Going camping? Don't forget your multimeter!
<rick_h> While I'm kind of handy in some ways, and can do really basic wiring stuff around the house, my electrical chops are weak
<rick_h> brousch: definitely! part of the standard toolbag
<jjesse> which is why "camping" for me = fully furnished cabin
<brousch> Must be a bag of holding
<rick_h> http://www.generalrv.com/inventory/286100/New-2014-Jayco-Jay-Feather-Ultra-Lite-X23B.aspx
<brousch> jjesse++
<jrwren_> what model fluke did you get?
<jrwren_> I think our parent  company also  owns fluke.
<rick_h> I grabbed this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O3LUEI/ref=oh_details_o01_s03_i05?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<rick_h> highest end model of the low end stuff
<jrwren_> wow, nice!
<jrwren_> i went and got a $25 craftsman when I needed a meter :)
<rick_h> yea, I was looking at some of the other things for the $30-$50 range but I've wanted to get a fluke since I was back in engineering school.
<rick_h> and already encouraging me to try to figure out more to do with it than just check the V in my batteries
<rick_h> lol https://plus.google.com/104919222657565747428/posts/88WaWhpSdCU
<brousch> rick_h: It's kind of funny. I wouldn't have known what a multimeter was if 2 kids hadn't been playing with one at the GRMakers meeting last night
<jjesse> ubuntu tablet eh?
<snap-l> that Fluke looks similar to the Triplett model I have, though smaller.
<rick_h> brousch: orly? Man, when I was in college I kept looking forward to the classes with the cool kids hooking up oscilloscopes and such
<rick_h> but left and change degrees before I got there
<brousch> I didn't get that far in CS/EECS
<brousch> I'm just starting to pick it up now thanks to GRMakers
<rick_h> very cool
<rick_h> yea, I need to hang around people and pick some of this stuff up. Youtube will have to do for now
<jrwren_> i hear ya. Fluke is the best for sure. I just was not willing to spend the $$$ when I was at sears and all those cheap meters were staring at me.
<jrwren_> I've been happy with my cheap one.
<rick_h> yea, I cheat my brain. "Search amamzon for fluke multi-meter...well this one isn't the most expensive or least expensive"
<jrwren_> brousch: haven't you ever done any repairs on electrical system where you needed a meter?
<brousch> No. I have avoided hardware below the card or chip replacement level
<brousch> I soldered once
<jrwren_> but I mean home things.
<rick_h> yea, I've got a bunch of outlet testers and such for common household things. Haven't really *needed* a meter
<jrwren_> like elecrical on an appliance.
<jrwren_> i use my MM to do outlet testing :)
<brousch> I just use my tongue
<jrwren_> I picked it up so I could check current flow on my electric water heater. it was very useful.
<rick_h> yea, the $20 three prong tester with three lights on it was easier/cheaper
<jrwren_> brousch: on 120v that sounds very painful. on 240v it sounds insane
<brousch> Now you know where my hair went
<jrwren_> definitely easier. not much cheaper than my $25 MM :)
<rick_h> woot! 220 in the garage for my bandsaw
<jrwren_> you ran 220 there?
<rick_h> I had it done because I wasn't sure about what needed to be done there. I have a 40A subpanel in the garage already
<rick_h> so they just ran me a 200 line witha single plug for the bandsaw
<rick_h> I hadn't messed with anything non-110 so was nervous about DIY
<jrwren_> ah, nice. I'd love to run 240 to mine, but I look out how thick that copper is and I really don't want to route that myself.
<jrwren_> understood, plus its not like it is just 120 but more, its phased differently, right?
<rick_h> well, honestly, it was the plugs that threw me off more than anything lol. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=220+plug+wire+end&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A220+plug+wire+end
<jrwren_> ha!
<rick_h> it's all different per Amps I guess. Camper is the same. Has 30A built in but you have to have different dogbones to go to a 50A or 15A
<rick_h> but for me it was like "wtf...I just want a 200 plug for my bandsaw when it arrives. Why is this so complicated?
<rick_h>  /200/220
<jrwren_> right.
<jrwren_> and most of those are 240 :)
<rick_h> right
<jrwren_> just like we still call it 110, but us service has been 120 for a very long time now
<rick_h> yep
<jrwren_> the thing I don't grok about 240v service is the 2 hot lines. I guess that EE part of my degree isn't very good ;)
<rick_h> yea, well that's how they get it up there. so it's 4-wire I think and they run a hot onto two breakers.
<rick_h> I thought they'd need to pull something new to my sub panel from my main panel to get me the 220, but they just wired it straight up to a new breaker that's 30A
<jrwren_> its probably already 220 to the subpanel
<snap-l> jrwren_: That's what cracks me up about Electricians vs EEs.
<jrwren_> snap-l: oh, me too!
<snap-l> It's like the difference between Fluid Dynamics and Plumbing. ;)
<jrwren_> err wait, I don't have any part of an EE degree. CS/CE, LOL
<snap-l> Yeah, CS is just useless. ;)
<rick_h> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgtdv057hvdkb6k/2013-06-13%2010.31.52.jpg jrwren_ yea, I had a guy that's a general handyman from the woodworking group help me out when I first ran that subpanel out to the garage
<rick_h> so yea, it's got dual 110 up there into the box, then A/B are my normal outlets on two diff 20A runs. Then the sqD is the 20A 220 for the bandsaw dedicated outlet. The bottom two are not hooked up to anything. Just there for future expandsion
<snap-l>  Honestly, when it comes to home wiring I want someone who can pass an inspection doing the job
<snap-l> Not going to cheap out
<rick_h> yea, erica freaks out when I touch electrical. She had a heart attack when I installed the child-proof outlets around the house lol
<snap-l> I don't need someone releasing the magic smoke in my walls
<snap-l> Those are fine, but running 240 through the house is a different matter
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> yea, I didn't do this myself for sure.
<rick_h> once the box was in place thogh I ran the wiring/outlets through the garage
<rick_h> that's easy stuff
<snap-l> right
<jrwren_> for basic 120v home wiring, I'll do it myself. its damned easy.
<jrwren_> i'm of the opinion that I can try anything a couple times, and if it requires more skill or i just hate it, i'll pay someone else
<rick_h> +1
<rick_h> and I'm one of those sucky customers that wants to look over their shoulder as they do it so I can learn :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not going to pay someone to install a light switch
<brousch> rick_h: I think they don't mind if you're friendly while you do it
<snap-l> They get really mad if you try dry humping their leg, though
<snap-l> just FYI
<brousch> TIL
<jrwren_> me too! I had a guy running a gas line for me, working black pipe, and I just said "don't mind me, I want to watch"
<brousch> Would've been better: "I like to watch"
<snap-l> alternately "it's been a while since anyone has been down here. Y'know, since 'the incident'".
<snap-l> "The voices like you"
<snap-l> "I like you"
<jrwren_> mental note: never allow snap-l into my home :)
<greg-g> jrwren_: oh you poor soul
<jrwren_> https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1  looks SWEET!
<jrwren_> still not as small as a mac book air, but looks to be the best linux ultra i've seen.
<greg-g> http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-398_8njq.pdf
<greg-g> here's one link I have http://www.pubpat.org/ampsctdecision.htm
<greg-g> yay
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, 4# isn't ultra-light imo
<rick_h> really not a fan of that build look
<jrwren_> nor I
<rick_h> 1080p though!
<rick_h> but a 14" screen :/
<rick_h> lots of ports love is cool
<jrwren_> supreme court missed a huge opportunity here. they SHOULD have invalidated all patents on genes.
<greg-g> jrwren_: yeah, agree, but at least all "natural" (or whatever) genes aren't patentable
<greg-g> not just human
<jrwren_> agreed, there is the "at least"
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> Galu does looks nice
<brousch> Too bad I don't need a new computer yet
<greg-g> I thought everyone who wanted a macbook air but not apple got the Dell XPS 13?
<greg-g> too bad good ole "project sputnik" is having kernel issues :)
<jrwren_> TIL: pep8 doesn't mandate a space between a quote and an and
<jrwren_> if x == 'wow'and y == 'crazy':
<rick_h> jrwren_: I expect a patch by EOD :)
<brousch> mmmm, pegging all 4 cores now
<brousch> Going to peg these suckers for 30-45mins
<brousch> I hope it doesn't melt
<greg-g> brousch: what you doing?
<brousch> Converting 500 badly formatted 36"x48" PDFs to TIFF
<brousch> I broke them into 4 pieces so I could run them in parallel
<brousch> Lunch!
<greg-g> so, there are now 3 extra kids in the house (2 two year old twins and 1 four year old). They're here half-time (their mom lives here now, split from dad). I feel bad, but I needed to put my headphones/RATM on to block out the noise today (working from home).
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, when my wife/boy are home on thurs I head out of the house. Can't do it
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> yeah, I might do that in a bit. Had my 9am call but it might be time for a coffee shop trip.
<greg-g> but I'm enjoying air drumming to RATM right now ;)
<jrwren_> i stopped working at home as soon as the girl could crawl, because she would crawl up to me and want to play.
<brousch> That would be hard on the kid, too. Having to tell her it's not play time
<brousch> Go away kid, Daddy is on his computer!
<greg-g> yeah, it has been with Rowan. :/
<greg-g> I dont' work from home much anymore (this is probably the first time since I started at WMF in Feb) so it isn't bad anymore
<greg-g> but at CC I wfm Wed/Fri every week.
<rick_h> I don't know. It's good for the boy imo. Same thing with cooking dinner. Sometimes he has to play while I cook on stuff. Sometimes he can participate in the cooking.
<jrwren_> kids understand.
<jrwren_> the thing is, I WANT to play with her :)
<snap-l> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<snap-l> ^ Not unsurprising
<greg-g> yeah, we got one of those "learning tower" things for the kitchen for cooking time. really helped out.
<snap-l> Also, this batch of Supreme Court decisions is extremely surgical in their decisions
<rick_h> yea, we let him climb up on a chair when it's something he can help with. Sometimes it's just boiling water and best to keep out.
<jrwren_> i've never heard of learning tower.
<greg-g> they're pretty neat
<rick_h> yea, if Michael was younger I'd be all over it
<rick_h> he's old enough now that just a chair works out ok.
<greg-g> http://www.amazon.com/Little-Partners-Learning-Tower-Natural/dp/B001ECHXVC
<greg-g> rick_h: how old is he now?
<rick_h> greg-g: 3
<jrwren_> ha! is that seriously just a step stool with sides just in case a kid falls?
<jrwren_> a $200 step stool! wow.
<snap-l> jrwren_: Not just any step stool; a step stool that has liability insurance tacked on for when the kid defeats the saftey.
<snap-l> and all of the kid testing to pass all of the certifications
<greg-g> jrwren_: we got ours used, only way to go with baby/kid stuff
<greg-g> $40 I think, iirc
<jrwren_> ah, cool.
<snap-l> http://affotd.com/2012/12/12/americas-most-awesomely-dangerous-toys/
<snap-l> The System76 laptop refresh seems nice.
<brousch> ahahahah. I ran out of disk space from those conversions. Apparently imagemagick is creating a 1.2GB temp file for each PDF
<greg-g> use vips
<greg-g> seriously
<greg-g> we're switching to it from imagemagick because it is better on ram/disk/cpu
<greg-g> brousch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIPS_%28software%29
<snap-l> Apparently JoDee's sense of smell is returning because she said Pixel dropped a deuce so bad they're clearing out Downtown Royal Oak.
<snap-l> Well, that's a bit of a habit, now isn't it.
<snap-l> logged into my machine, and instantly typed "irc".
<brousch> Hm, I was wrong about the 1.2GB files. Apparently it was just the conversion of one specific file that created about 40 1.2GB files. Insane
<jrwren_> what happened to her smell?
<snap-l> jrwren_: She had allergies going pretty strong
<snap-l> so she was having difficulty smelling / tasting things
<jrwren_> wow, them is some bad allergies.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-14
<snap-l> yeah, she was hit pretty hard
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> WHere exactly did this week go, because I remember bits and pieces of it, but it just feels like it shouldn't be Friday already.
<snap-l> Not that I'm complaining
<snap-l> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5764781/
<snap-l> Wondering if I should hire this dude, as he may help me increase my sales for Open Metalcast. ;)
<rick_h> woot, the beginning of taking over the world
<snap-l> "Please let me know how I can make more sales of my freely available podcast that specializes in hippie-licensed Metal music. kthxbai"
<snap-l> Were it not a way to guarantee I get more spam from this chump and his ilm, I might do it. :)
<snap-l> I<3 ubuntu One
<snap-l> Streaming service stops, so the 20GB that I normally pay for also gets discontinued
<snap-l> But, if I buy an album, then I can get 20GB and the streaming service for free
<snap-l> Oh, also: my purchase counts against my quota
<snap-l> Wow, this is really messed up
<snap-l> Going to cut down the amount of stuff in my U1 account
<snap-l> Because frankly this is a mess
<greg-g> git-annex assistant
<jrwren_> with patch('psycopg2') <-- why do i feel this is bad?
<rick_h> because you should just be able to pass some sort of mock/data into the method directly vs patching the module
<jrwren_> by golly you are right!
<jrwren_> i'm not changing any impl code right now, just getting it under test.
<snap-l> Well, that's solved then. Moved the Amazon purchases out of my Ubuntu One account.
<snap-l> Looks like I'll save $30 a year that way.
<jrwren_> that is about what I spend on all my S3
<snap-l> And I'm removing it from all of my clients, save for my desktop machine
<snap-l> since I have music purchased through U1
<brousch> https://github.com/hhatto/nude.py
<snap-l> Finally, something useful.
<snap-l> Looks like Jim McQ managed to convince Mako to come to MUG. ;)
<jrwren_> the old template engine?
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome
<jrwren_> anyone have a copy of perl5.8 around?
<jrwren_> and can time this for me: perl -e 'print "a"x29 =~ m/a?a?a?aaa/'
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-15
<CrusaderAD> Any hardware gurus out there?
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Free RPG day today.
<snap-l> http://greenronin.com/2013/06/free_rpg_day_2013.php
<snap-l> Free copy of Mutants and Masterminds 3e
<snap-l> Which is a good super heroes RPG game if that's something you're interested in
<brousch> Can I pick up my free rocket propelled grenade at Cabellas?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-16
<rick_h> happy father's day! The family is out of the house and it's quiet yay!
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live Video only today http://www.youtube.com/embed/xr8rLGdPDtw
<snap-l> rick_h: Wooo!
<snap-l> I drank much Black Note and Batch 9000 at the BRU Fest last night with my dad
<snap-l> and now I have a strong desire for quiet. :)
<rick_h> hah, but sounds like it was fun!
<snap-l> Yeah, it was
<snap-l> they had a good cover band
<rick_h> ok, so superman seen. Actually a good father's day movie
<snap-l> cool
<snap-l> have heard it isn't very faithful to the source material
<rick_h> yea, it's a bit diff/off
<rick_h> made for a pretty good story though
<jcastro> greg-g: http://test.ubuntu-discourse.org/t/conference-report-the-wikipedia-teahousr/354
<greg-g> jcastro: ignoring the content, what the hell is that site?! ;)
<jcastro> IT IS AWESOMENESS IS WHAT IT IS
<jcastro> greg-g: I was with some wikipedians this weekend
<jcastro> we were comparing tools, etc.
<jcastro> http://openhelpconference.com/
<greg-g> yeah, saw Jim Campbell denting about it
<greg-g> good?
<jcastro> it was _excellent_
<greg-g> awesome
<jcastro> I am writing up some trip reports, I'll blog it
<jcastro> the mozilla people ftw. btw
<greg-g> no kidding
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-09
<jrwren> season finale of cosmos in 20min
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morniing
<rick_h_> ok, sorry but with the mention of 'chatbots' I couldn't help but think that mrgoodcat would have the bookiebot talking to us about our days soon http://r.bmark.us/u/e676147cb40dd5
<mrgoodcat> haha yuk it up funny boy
<mrgoodcat> but in all seriousness chatbots are annoying
<mrgoodcat> at least every time bookiebot talks he's at least trying to be useful
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> and do you
<mrgoodcat> to you even
<cmaloney> I do monring yes
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: what is your preferred online retailer for wine?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: wineries
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - U.M.C. (Upper Middle Class) (Live) by Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band on Live Bullet (2011 Remaster)
<mrgoodcat> <3 bob seger
<mrgoodcat> ah that's what i was afraid you were going to say. I'm trying to get a bottle for my gf that doesn't seem to be easily available online. from the winery direct they have a 1 case minimum for online ordering...
<mrgoodcat> oh well
<mrgoodcat> emailed the guy to see if i can get an exception
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ah, yea I get a wine membership and they tend to allow you to get 2 or 4 bottles every few months
<mrgoodcat> well as a last resort i guess i could just drive there. it's in michigan
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: So order a case? :)
<cmaloney> Which winery, btw?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, what wine is it? If it's good we'll go in on a case :P
<mrgoodcat> turns out i was mistaken about the case being a minimum... It's called homework. from peninsula cellars
<mrgoodcat> its pretty good but not amazing. it has significance to me and my gf though
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: peninsula cellars
<mrgoodcat> anyone been to michigan by the bottle tasting room?
<mrgoodcat> or cellar 59
<cmaloney> Not famiiar with either of them
<cmaloney> Only winery I've been to was Fenn Valley and that was with my dad when he was picking up a delivery.
 * cmaloney 's dad was a wine delivery driver.
<rick_h_> there was a wine at the local tasting like that, but I think it was more to do with lat/long vs cellar
<sydney> Cool!!
<sydney> I'm in Wayland,MI. :D
<rick_h_> party
<mrgoodcat> sydney: i envy you your beer
<mrgoodcat> kalamazoo and GR both in easy driving range
<sydney> mrgoodcat: Cool!!
<sydney> rick_h_: where do you live?
<sydney> What are the monthly mettings?
<sydney> I have added this webchat to my list,so i will be here more often nw. ;)
<mrgoodcat> sydney: meetings are at 6:30pm on the second Tuesday of each month at the Farmington Community Library.
<mrgoodcat> per: http://mug.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XzBZ0f - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org â A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
<sydney> Ok;
<sydney> :D
<sydney> Thats quite a trip...
<mrgoodcat> sydney: yea there is also a grand rapids group
<cmaloney> http://bundleofholding.com/index/current
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8ZKgS - Eclipse Phase RPG Bundle - transhumanist conspiracy horror
<mrgoodcat> you have to ask brousch__ about that one though
<sydney> mrgoodcat: im 14,so i dont think i can get to involved,except in irc,yet. ;)
<mrgoodcat> sydney: http://wp.grlug.org/
<cmaloney> ^- You must all buy this.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/StxUgO - Grand Rapids Linux User's Group
<mrgoodcat> hmmmm i don't RPG though...
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Doesn't matter
<mrgoodcat> I do like the idea of libre games though
<cmaloney> it's CC-BY-NC-SA
<sydney> What?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> Creative Commons By Attribution, Non-commercial, Share Alike license.
<mrgoodcat> where do you see that?
<mrgoodcat> I don't see the lic anywhere
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I own practically every bit they've ever released. :)
<cmaloney> They're all CC-BY-NC-SA. :)
<sydney> If you look,you will see that i hang around the #ubuntu channel quite a bit. ;)
<cmaloney> http://eclipsephase.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/BzxE - Homepage | Eclipse Phase
<cmaloney> I believe most if not all of the artwork is CC-BY-NC_SA
<cmaloney> At least the later printings
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> buying for my brother i guess
<mrgoodcat> he'll appreciate
<cmaloney> If he wants any of the rest of the stuff LMK
<cmaloney> More than happy to share
<mrgoodcat> sydney: i'd go for the grand rapids group from there. there might also be some other groups i'm not aware of
<sydney> I didnt say i was going to one,i was just wondering if there was one. :D
<mrgoodcat> touche
<sydney> ?
<mrgoodcat> touchÃ©
<sydney> Me or you? :P
<cmaloney> touche touche touche me
<mrgoodcat> used to acknowledge an appropriate argument
<cmaloney> Rocky Horror Picture Show.
<gamerchick02> drinkin beer and listening to 80s  country music on pandora.
<cmaloney> one out of two ain't bad.
<gamerchick02> :) so you're listening to 80s country?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> i get cheeky after a couple beers...
<cmaloney> I get sarcastic after listening to Country.
<gamerchick02> this is the "old" stuff
<gamerchick02> stuff i remember from my youth
<gamerchick02> ain't nothin like Tight Fittin Jeans. ;)
<gamerchick02> oh man the innuendo.
<gamerchick02> love it
<gamerchick02> country can be good. i usually have to be in the mood for it and strangely i'm in the mood tonight.
<gamerchick02> for country, let me clarify.
<cmaloney> Don't Smell my Farts
<cmaloney> My Really Stinky Farts
<cmaloney> They smell just like a rotting ham
<cmaloney> But if you smell my farts
<cmaloney> my really stinky farts
<cmaloney> I hope you don't think I shit my pants.
<cmaloney> Oooooo
<gamerchick02> uhm
<gamerchick02> gone up a decade. 90s country now
<gamerchick02> "-P
<gamerchick02> :-P even. goddamn i can't type when buzzed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-10
<cmaloney> http://cryogen.darkmillenniumrecords.com/track/shades-of-meaningless
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/EO4gf6 - Shades Of Meaningless | CRYOGEN
<cmaloney> http://cryogen.darkmillenniumrecords.com/album/despara
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xdDp8T - Despara | CRYOGEN
<cmaloney> For folks who like Chimaira.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Singularity by Black Market Serotonin
<cmaloney> sorry, putting together an episode and getting in the mood. :)
<cmaloney> Have been concentrating on all of the newer stuff that I neglect the amazing stuff.
<cmaloney> Also, I can neither confirm nor deny that the next episode will be an Instrumetalcast
<cmaloney> holy fuck, the artwork for this song is pretty fucked up
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - DeadByFiveOClock by Black Market Serotonin on Deadbyfiveoclock
<cmaloney> Bah, that's not it
<cmaloney> Brunt - Rabbit of Cinnabong
<shakes808> Evening all
<cmaloney> Hey shakes808
<shakes808> What's the word? Anything new?
<cmaloney> Not much. Just putting together a show
<shakes808> Cool
<mrgoodcat> morn
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2014/06/10/open-metalcast-episode-98-instrumetalcast-9/
<cmaloney> Morning
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WQW95n - Open Metalcast Â» Open Metalcast Episode #98: Instrumetalcast #9
<cmaloney> MUG Meeting tonight
<cmaloney> http://mug.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XzBZ0f - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org â A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
<cmaloney> Well that was fun
<cmaloney> my machine suddenly wigged out for no discernable reason
<cmaloney> It was like something started eating memory and swapping like crazy
<cmaloney> HDD light was pegged, music started stuttering
<cmaloney> And of course no useful logs.
<rick_h_> hacked!
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney just sent millions of spam emails
<brousch__> cmaloney: How did you know I would be interested in male pattern baldness cures?
<brousch__> I had no idea that could be done with herbs
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> pretty sure it wasn't hacked.
<mrgoodcat> https://libre.fm/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/kwAloZ - Libre.fm
<cmaloney> What about it?
<mrgoodcat> bad paste
<mrgoodcat> didn't mean to put that here
<mrgoodcat> sry :)
<cmaloney> no worries.
<cmaloney> Just wondered where it came from. :)
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that. :)
<mrgoodcat> and all of that
<mrgoodcat> comcast is at it again http://blog.chron.com/techblog/2014/06/comcast-is-turning-your-xfinity-router-into-a-public-wi-fi-hotspot/#24139101=0
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Bujjn3 - Comcast is turning your Xfinity router into a public Wi-Fi hotspot - TechBlog
<mrgoodcat> as if they're taunting me to hate their company more
<cmaloney> I hope they're also indemnifying you from illegal material downloaded via your connection
<cmaloney> Because i'd love to run a public hotspot but I'm afraid of the consequences.
<mrgoodcat> there is a quick sentence about that at the end
<cmaloney> no? :)
<mrgoodcat> the article also goes through the steps to opt-out
<mrgoodcat> you want to run a public wifi hotspot?
<cmaloney> I want folks to have access to bandwidth
<mrgoodcat> well, public is a strong word. you have to log in to a portal using your comcast creds
<cmaloney> I'd be OK with running a Tor node.
<cmaloney> As long as I was indemnified from the consequences of others' actions
<mrgoodcat> so easy to broadcast a hotspot called xfinitywifi with a fake portal to steal creds
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: node or exit node?
<cmaloney> either.
 * cmaloney believes in Tor but a) doesn't have the guts to use it and b) doesn't have the guts to host it
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i've used it
<cmaloney> My big thing with it is it's pretty much a flag saying "look at me, I'm doing something I don't want others to see"
<mrgoodcat> lol yea kinda
<jrwren> that comcast public hotspot thing is sWEET!  I loveit.
<jrwren> i own my own modem, so I'm not a public hot spot.
<jrwren> cmaloney: same here.  lets host a tor node together :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - 21st Century Schizoid Man by King Crimson on Condensed 21st Century Guide To King Crimson (1969-2003) [10 Jun 2014, 17:55]
<jrwren> damn, I missed UDS
<greg-g> it's over already?
<greg-g> it's only tuesday!
<greg-g> cmaloney: but the more people who use it (tor) the more it isn't a red flag, catch-22
<jrwren> i mean I missed today.
<jrwren> i'll checkout tomorrow and thurs.
<greg-g> cmaloney: I ran a node for a while, even set it as an exit node for a bit, never got complaints from ATT or Comcast, but it was all of a few months
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Hummingbird by Architect on Mine
<jrwren> sooooo goood
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: that's a few months more than most :)
<greg-g> sadly
<cmaloney> greg-g: ++
<mrgoodcat> how often does freenode netsplit?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-11
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Did it work? :)
<cmaloney> was re: SMS messages in G+
<shakes808> Evening all,
<shakes808> Does anyone use MonoDevelop and GIT?
<rick_h_> jrwren: around?
<jrwren> rick_h_: sure.
<jrwren> oh. i once used monodevelop and git.
<jrwren> but its been a long time.
<cmaloney> I've used git, but not monodevelop
<brousch__> I've used git and monodevelop, but the usage of each was about 6 years from each other
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: did what work?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Just messing with you re: the SMS messages in G+
<mrgoodcat> ah lol
<mrgoodcat> .echo did the netsplit screw up bookiebot?
<bookiebot> did the netsplit screw up bookiebot?
<mrgoodcat> aha :)
<mrgoodcat> hopefully he should gracefully handle netsplits now
<mrgoodcat> hmmmm i was wondering what Uber was going to do about all of the taxi license problems
<mrgoodcat> apparently in london you can now use Uber to call a regular licensed taxi
<cmaloney> nice.
<shakes808> I am looking to use the integrated GIT plugin with MonoDevelop.   I think it says that it saves it to my server but I am not seeing the files on my server.   How can I find out if it is just saving locally or to my server?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - West End Girls by Pet Shop Boys on Discography: The Complete Singles Collection
<cmaloney> Fuckyeah. :)
<enleeten> shakes808: use the git command line interface
<enleeten> git log
<enleeten> in the root of your git repo
<enleeten> oh wait and you need to see if there are pending commits
<enleeten> it would be something like: git log origin/master HEAD
<enleeten> for the remote repo's log
<shakes808> enleeten: thank you. I will try this out as soon as I get home.
<cmaloney> I have now hit defcon 1 with Jack Threads invitation mails
<brousch__> wat?
<cmaloney> They use a company called "sailthru" which apparently makes it more than difficult to opt-out of their "invitation" email
<cmaloney> So now I have a REJECt rule for them.
<mrgoodcat> http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/206401-with-the-machine-hp-may-have-invented-a-new-kind-of-computer
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/S75wcJ - With 'The Machine,' HP May Have Invented a New Kind of Computer - Businessweek
<mrgoodcat> they're looking at 100GB/cm^2 persistent RAM
<mrgoodcat> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1168454
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/K7IsO2 - 'Missing link' memristor created: Rewrite the textbooks? | EE Times
<cmaloney> Hmmm..
<greg-g> finally a shirt I'd buy from somafm: http://somafm.com/support/glowshirts/
 * greg-g doesn't where black shirts well
<greg-g> here bookiebot
<greg-g> http://somafm.com/support/glowshirts/
<cmaloney> I don't think the memristor is quite as revolutionary
<greg-g> what
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Miles Davis' Funeral by Morphine on Cure for Pain [11 Jun 2014, 03:21]
<greg-g> no linky for me?
<cmaloney> Apparently Bookiebot is not a soma.fm fan. :)
<greg-g> jerk
<cmaloney> I don't think it's heard the defcon channel
<mrgoodcat> lol sorry
<mrgoodcat> not sure what happened to that link
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: why don't you think it is revolutionary?
<rick_h_> always strange to hear your own voice back at you heh
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHXN-ao67k for the juju awesome :)
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/korXWA - Juju Core and GUI Roadmap - YouTube
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> bmarked for later watch
<brousch__> Have they replaced Jono yet? I thought jcastro would get the job
<mrgoodcat> Jorge lives in michigan right
<mrgoodcat> ?
<mrgoodcat> why is michigan so juju heavy?
<mrgoodcat> or is it just my imagination?
<jcastro> because we are awesome
<rick_h_> +1 and we're sucking jrwren in as well bwuhahaha
<jcastro> mrgoodcat, short story is we find good local people
<jcastro> and make it happen
<mrgoodcat> lol hi jcastro
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think it'll take more than HP to release Memristors to the public
<cmaloney> I don't see it in their corporate culture to do anything with it until the patents expire
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: so you aren't refuting that memristors are revolutionary, you just don't think it will be revolutionary for HP?
<cmaloney> I think they've had the technology for years and have sat on their thumbs
<cmaloney> ie: It'll come to fruition quicker outside of HP's domain
<mrgoodcat> i thought you were saying memristors themselves aren't a big deal
<cmaloney> That and I'm not sure what the big deal with Memristors are
<cmaloney> Other than smaller, cheap, quick storage.
<mrgoodcat> they offer persistent storage at RAM speed
<mrgoodcat> in a computer designed to fully take advantage of them they could make hard drives and RAM obsolete
<cmaloney> That's the hype talking
<mrgoodcat> since you wouldn't have to load anything into RAM, it would just be available at high speed
<cmaloney> You'll still need scratch space and will want somewhere temporary that "goes away"
<cmaloney> Otherwise secure computing is pretty much done. :)
<mrgoodcat> scratch space would be on the memristor array, volatile space could be integrated into the CPU since you'd need much less of it
<cmaloney> Again, I'll believe it when I see it
<cmaloney> The way they're hyping this is it's all free side effects of certain materials
<mrgoodcat> your voice of reason is probably healthy for my sanity, but I still prefer to look at the posibilities rather than the potential downfalls
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Chalk it up to hearing a lot of free lunches
<cmaloney> Flash was hyped in the same way
<cmaloney> (flash drives)
<mrgoodcat> i do realize that even if the material is as magical as they say it is, operating systems would need to be rewritten to take advantage of it and so forth
<cmaloney> and then it came out later on that flash memory was a destructive process.
<mrgoodcat> flash led to SSD, and i'd say that is a pretty significant landmark in computing history
<cmaloney> with finite lifespans
<cmaloney> I expect memristor SSD before I expect "The Machine" to arrive
<cmaloney> it'll be the stop-gap in between
<cmaloney> HP will need to license the tech though
<cmaloney> You can't shot out a revolution
<cmaloney> shit
<cmaloney> The IBM PC was revolutionary the moment someone cloned it
<mrgoodcat> no SSD is the wrong direction
<mrgoodcat> memristors don't offer any immediate advantages for SSD
<mrgoodcat> RAM maybe
<mrgoodcat> computers that boot instantly back to their previous state
<cmaloney> Why not SSD? Faster access with low power?
<mrgoodcat> how would it be faster or lower power?
<mrgoodcat> more dense is the only major advantage i see
<cmaloney> ding ding ding
<mrgoodcat> specifically as it relates to SSD
<greg-g> fewer/shorter wires means more efficient
<cmaloney> 1TB consumer SSD drives
<mrgoodcat> the reason SSD isn't as fast as RAM has less to do with materials and more to do with transfer speed
<mrgoodcat> the wires are too long
<mrgoodcat> if i understand it correctly (which i probably don't)
<cmaloney> Again, they need a baby step like this before they "change computing"
<mrgoodcat> but when i was in CE at WMU that's the way my prof explained it to me
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: you mean the wires betweent he drive and cpu, I was referring to the wires of the actual storage
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: yea it would probably offer some limited power consumption benefit
<mrgoodcat> and shorter wires == lower latency
<mrgoodcat> but drives are currently limited by the bus back to the CPU, not drive internals
<mrgoodcat> or not as much by drive internals
<cmaloney> That's fine. Flash is limited by redundancy and cost.
<cmaloney> Solve that problem first. :)
<cmaloney> Then solve the supercomputer problems. :)
<mrgoodcat> RAM is equally limited by latency
<mrgoodcat> but it is orders of magnitude better than any persistent storage we have these days
<rick_h_> ram isn't persistent
<mrgoodcat> ^^
<rick_h_> the whole idea of making a persistent change that lasts is kind of the big thing in ssd vs ram
<rick_h_> they're not the same
<mrgoodcat> that's not the argument
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I understand the exuberance.
<cmaloney> And I know we likely sound like folks bitching about platter storage not having tape markers or some shit. :)
<cmaloney> But I see HP missing an opportunity to get something out there now
<cmaloney> And proving the technology in the data center before trying to reinvent everything.
<mrgoodcat> oh i have no doubt if any company can miss the train on a technology it poineered itself, its HP
<mrgoodcat> I wasn't saying it's time to buy HP stock (although i'm not saying it isn't either), just that the technology itself stands to make monumental changes in the way computers are architected
<mrgoodcat> long term
<cmaloney> If it means we get working suspend I'll be content. ;)
<mrgoodcat> HP is saying it wants to release "The Machine" in 2017, whatever "The Machine" is. For all we know it could just be a normal computer with a memristor array on the MB as a hyper-speed cache for persistent storage
<cmaloney> That's what will be released.
<cmaloney> I doubt they'll be able to pinch off an OS in that time
<cmaloney> Though I'll bet dollars to donuts it'll be UNIX-based. ;)
<cmaloney> Because UNIX don't care. :)
<brousch__> Don't they still own WebOS?
<mrgoodcat> no, but if the technology becomes available i don't have any problem imagining a community supported fork of linux designed specifically for memristor based memory/storage
<mrgoodcat> brousch__: yes i believe they do
<brousch__> Mini Makerfaire in Grand Rapids August 30,31 http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/06/maker_faire_bringing_inventors.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0fSXud - Maker Faire bringing inventors and creators to Grand Rapids in August | MLive.com
<gamerchick02> oo
<gamerchick02> that's cool, brousch__
<mrgoodcat> yea it is
<brousch__> All my friends
<gamerchick02> sweet. i presume you're going.
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> dinner not sitting well
<gamerchick02> uh oh. feel better, cmaloney
<gamerchick02> tums?
<gamerchick02> i'm switching to the macbook, brb
<gamerchick02> i am back.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-12
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, do you you have meds to take care of your ailing stomach?
<cmaloney> yeah, took some meijer tums
<gamerchick02> good. feel better, man
<gamerchick02> and i MIGHT have bought two CDs from Blackbird Blackbird today.
<gamerchick02> :-D
<waf> rick_h_: http://vpaste.net/bArQp
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1GGoHl - text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<mrgoodcat> dpkg -s /etc/os-release
<mrgoodcat> did any of you know  theabout /etc/os-release file?
<mrgoodcat> gah
<mrgoodcat> about the *
<jrwren> zomg, I can linux on the desktop now: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27vr19/firefox_30_released_finally_supports_gstreamer10/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HOyjye - Too Many Requests
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what was preventing you before?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I knew about lsb_release
<cmaloney> but not os-release
<mrgoodcat> os-release is not distro-specific
<mrgoodcat> it's part of systemd so it can be used on most distros now
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: nothing. i'm just happy about the firefox h264 support via gstreamer
<mrgoodcat> well most may be an overstatement
<mrgoodcat> but systemd is slowly becoming the de-facto "standard"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I just want to know: how is UPS going to deliever this? http://mashable.com/2014/06/11/titan-zeus-370-inch-tv/?utm_cid=mash-com-G+-main-photo
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XeEsQH - This 370-Inch TV Costs $1.6 Million â and Someone Actually Bought It
<cmaloney> and I think Erica might notice it. :)
<gamerchick02> who would pay that much for a TV?
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: who wouldn't
<mrgoodcat> if i had 1.6M to burn on a TV i'd for sure have a movie theater
<gamerchick02> i wouldn't, partly because i don't have 1.6 million bucks and i could find a bunch of other things to spend it on.
<mrgoodcat> that's why i said "on a TV"
<gamerchick02> ah
<mrgoodcat> it assumes that i am rich enough to be able to budget 1.6 just for my TV
<gamerchick02> yes for a movie theater
<mrgoodcat> presumably i've already bought Ferarri and Porsche
<mrgoodcat> the companies not the cars
<gamerchick02> LOL yes
<mrgoodcat> and commissioned a real-life iron man suit
<mrgoodcat> that's very important
<gamerchick02> dude
<mrgoodcat> higher priority than the TV
<gamerchick02> that'd be awesome
<mrgoodcat> can't figure out why Elon Musk doesn't already have one
<mrgoodcat> or Richard Branson
<mrgoodcat> or any one of the tech gazillionaires
<gamerchick02> if i was Richard Branson i'd surely have an Iron Man suit.
<gamerchick02> what about Bill Gates?
<mrgoodcat> he's too grounded
<gamerchick02> hah, literally
<gamerchick02> he'd rather bring world peace and water and education to everyone.
<gamerchick02> which, if i was Bill Gates, i probably would do that too.
<mrgoodcat> i'd have an Iron Man suit
<mrgoodcat> lol
<gamerchick02> of course!
<mrgoodcat> hmmm maybe someone in this channel more versed in blockchain and privacy can tell me if this could possibly be as good as it seems http://storj.io/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/avZkDZ - Storj - The Future of Cloud Storage
<mrgoodcat> who was that at coffee house coders tonight?
<mrgoodcat> writing the weechat plugin
<trevlar> mrgoodcat: me
<mrgoodcat> ah. now i can't remember why i was even looking for you
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> sorry
<mrgoodcat> anybody here play with rust?
<brousch__> mrgoodcat: My car does
<mrgoodcat> ha
<mrgoodcat> so that's a no then?
<cmaloney> Off to a great start. :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Haven't played with Rust yet
<cmaloney> Seemes every day another company comes up with another language. :)
<cmaloney> Been sticking with Python this whole time.
<cmaloney> with a smidge of Javascript because you can't swing a dead cat around a web browser without hitting Javascript.
<mrgoodcat> can't do systems programming in python or javascript
<cmaloney> bullshit. :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, it's not as fun. :)
<jrwren> why can't you do systems programming in python?
<cmaloney> Because Hacker News said so
<jrwren> I knew you could
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: my friends and i are developing a toy kernel for the rapsberry pi for learns. if you can figure out a way to do it in python let me know
<jrwren> well, i could, but why would i :p
<jrwren> use C for that :p
<mrgoodcat> that's what we're doign
<cmaloney> Actually Python would be sweet as a kernel
<mrgoodcat> well c++ actually
<cmaloney> create a mini bootloader that brings up Python
<mrgoodcat> inb4c++sucks
<jrwren> python would not be sweet as a kernel
<jrwren> oh, a mini bootloader.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: ha we were thinking about micropython
<cmaloney> then you can have all the fun of duck-typing IOCTLs.
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah, that would be sweet.
<jrwren> i'm actually OK with duck typing ioctls too.
<jrwren> how about embedding cpython in teh linux kernel and writing linux kernel modules in python?
<jrwren> hrm... does pypy offer a means to ahead of time compile?
<cmaloney> Unsure.
<jrwren> i didn't see it listed.
<jrwren> cython then!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think pypy's claim to fame is the jit
<cmaloney> Kind of like asking to run Java without the JVM
<mrgoodcat> ok well if you dont like new languages, then maybe new privacy minded storage methods...
<cmaloney> ?
<mrgoodcat> http://storj.io
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/avZkDZ - Storj - The Future of Cloud Storage
<cmaloney> God, that again? :)
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> there was no comment about it last night
<mrgoodcat> so i figured i'd ask again
<cmaloney> THERE WAS A REASON THERE WAS NO COMMENT
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> i'm really just wondering if it's even viable
<cmaloney> Is there money involved?
<mrgoodcat> i dont know enough about blockchain
<mrgoodcat> yes, money in and out
<cmaloney> Is it controlled by a centralized authority?
<mrgoodcat> no
<cmaloney> Then it will be gamed and is ultimately doomed to failure. :)
<mrgoodcat> you earn Storcoins (bitcoin clone) by allowing it to use your disk space and calculating the checksums, Storcoins can be redeemed for money
<cmaloney> Right, as can micropayments. :)
 * cmaloney is trying to think of what the 1990s ___gold was called
<cmaloney> e-gold.
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/13dOi - E-gold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<jrwren> cmaloney: and yet, that is like asking to run C# without the VM, and that is exactly what mono aot does :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's because there's value to C#. :)
<cmaloney> As opposed to Java, where everyon'e first step with theJVM is to ditch Java. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> there are a billion JVM languages
<cmaloney> Exactly.
<jrwren> kinda true.
<cmaloney> I'm being a little glib here but I'm not aware of the same "rip out the language" mentality in the .NET environment.
<cmaloney> Even though .NET kinda encourages it.
<jrwren> definitely not.
<mrgoodcat> well c# is pretty nice
<mrgoodcat> so...
<jrwren> there is good support for F# and VB.NET of course, but i dno't see people running from C# like they run from Jaba
<jrwren> I love C#
<brousch__> VB.NET r0x!
<mrgoodcat> C# the hutt
<mrgoodcat> python.NET
<mrgoodcat> go
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Definitely. There's ironpython and ironruby
<mrgoodcat> yup
<cmaloney> but I consider those more porting an existing language
<cmaloney> Clojure and Scala are new languages that replace Java.
<brousch__> ironpython is very neglected, and ironruby is dead
<cmaloney> Not aware of .NET languages that were totally new, third party creations.
<cmaloney> brousch__: Unsurprising
<cmaloney> (and yes, F# is totally new, but that's Microsoft's doing).
<mrgoodcat> that's because there isnt any real compelling reason to use ironpython or ironruby
<mrgoodcat> afaict
<cmaloney> Yeah.
<jrwren> and ironruby is abandoned
<jrwren> and ironpython has like 1 person working on it, kinda.
<jrwren> cmaloney: there is Boo
<jrwren> cmaloney: there is unityscript :)
<jrwren> both totally new, third party creations
<cmaloney> jrwren: I stand corrected.
<cmaloney> How many of them have O'Reilly books? :)
<cmaloney> or Pragmatic Programmer books? :)
<jrwren> likely none.
<enleeten> there's a C# implementation for the JVM
<mrgoodcat> rly?
<enleeten> https://code.google.com/p/stab-language/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/mwTCQs - stab-language - A multi-paradigm programming language designed for the Java Virtual Machine - Google Project Hosting
<jrwren> wow
<jrwren> scala isn't far from a C# for jvm :p
<enleeten> true
<enleeten> but stab is almost a direct clone
<enleeten> I want to like scala but it's like perl
<jrwren> indeed. I love it. this stab lang is great.
<jrwren> but... type erasure :(
<cmaloney> What's wrong with Perl? :)
<enleeten> it tends to turn into unreadable ick after a while
<cmaloney> enleeten: Only if you don't do chmod a-w before it becomes unreadable. :)
<enleeten> ha that should be in the scala docs
<enleeten> maybe perl isn't the best analogue
<enleeten> maybe C++ for the jvm
<enleeten> would be more accurate
<jrwren> perl is far more readable than any erlang I've ever seen.
<jrwren> and the kids LOVE erlang
<jrwren> in todays climate of codereview, I don't feel perl would get unreadable.
<jrwren> you'd have guidelines similar to pep8 that say, use the verbose option of all the vars in perlvar
<jrwren> and checking tools to catch where that doesn't happen
<jrwren> although $ARG and @ARG instead of $_ and @_ is kinda weird in perl
<jrwren> but $GID instead of $( and $GID instead of $) makes lots of sense IMO
<mrgoodcat> It is too hard to determine the type of a Scalar, e.g there is no easy way to determine if a variable is a string.
<cmaloney> In Perl?
<cmaloney> It's very easy.
<cmaloney> [0-9.] <- number
<cmaloney> Anything else == String
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: that is not a perl thing, that is a dynamically typed thing.
<jrwren> zomg, ya know what would be sweet?  openstack nova LXC host migration
<jrwren> anyone know if rsync has an option similar to scp -3 ?
<jrwren> zomg, I just had a crazy idea... put all my data in ceph... at home. im my basement
<brousch__> That is crazy.
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's utterly brilliant. :)
<cmaloney> Then you could put it all in LXC containers all living on the same drive.
<cmaloney> Today's lunch: Lentils Curry with Rice
<cmaloney> looks like a dog's breakfast. :)
<brousch__> post-digestion?
<jrwren> and i can cry when cephfs fails and I lose my data and then ya'll can tell me "they said not production ready!"
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what are you trying to accomplish by running the data through the localhost?
<mrgoodcat> is it a NAT problem or something?
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> its ok, i just used scp -3
<jrwren> but yes, 1 network is not on internet.
<_stink_> rick_h_: is there an IRC channel for nose?
<_stink_> or cmaloney --^
<_stink_> or anyone.
<rick_h_> _stink_: no, not that I know of
<rick_h_> _stink_: we moved to pytest, nose 1 is deprecated and nose2 was too different and not as usable
<_stink_> ah, ok
<_stink_> https://nose.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ is deprecated?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0VWBz - Installation and quick start â nose 1.3.3 documentation
<_stink_> github shows recent dev
<_stink_> anyway suddenly i'm seeing stuff living from test method to test method in a very strange way - like i instantiate an instance and it suddenly has attributes preset.  weird.
<rick_h_> _stink_: the guy that runs it said it was deprecated so I moved on
<_stink_> o cool
<_stink_> thanks for the info!
<cmaloney> _stink_: We're still using nose
<cmaloney> in that we're not really doing a lot of unit testing. :)
<brousch__> Real men test in production
<cmaloney> and commit there.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoh
<mrgoodcat> i just sniff my keyboard with my IRL nose
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - The Wanderer by Amorphis on Circle
<_stink_> cmaloney: hah.  rest assured that this testing is for a personal thing, not for work.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, screw work testing. :)
<mrgoodcat> bugs smell a bit bitter on the keyboard
<mrgoodcat> try that
<mrgoodcat> :)
<cmaloney> all I smell on my keyboard are broken dreams
<cmaloney> Wait, that's lunch
<cmaloney> n/m
<greg-g> from last week
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'll have you know I sanitize my keyboard once in a great while
<greg-g> emphasis on great
<cmaloney> GREAT!
<mrgoodcat> if you can't smell teh bug on your keyboard make sure you are sniffing the keyboard you used to write the code. alternatively, put the code on a flash drive and sniff that. Sometimes it works a little better
<greg-g> cmaloney: now now Tony
<rick_h_> anyone ever seen a network interfaces em1?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think it's a new wired interface
<rick_h_> cmaloney: interesting
<cmaloney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/1320916
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/u89Fsu - Bug #1320916 âNICs being mapped with strange names that make no ...â : Bugs : âudevâ package : Ubuntu
<cmaloney> Wonder if it's some systemd thing?
<rick_h_> smoser: got a sec? server network issue and your name is dropped in http://askubuntu.com/questions/63456/waiting-for-network-configuration-adding-3-to-5-minutes-to-boot-time
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YLdpPa - startup - "Waiting for network configuration" adding 3 to 5 minutes to boot time - Ask Ubuntu
<smoser> rick_h_, is that a problem for you now ?
<rick_h_> smoser: well I think it's related, and causing maas to not come up, but found another link which might be more correct trying something
<smoser> basically, if you're seeing a message like that, then its bcause /etc/network/interfaces has a interface configured that is not going to come up.
<rick_h_> smoser: yea, trying to get the dual nic on this nuc to come up right
<rick_h_> well, one is a usb nic, other is built iun
<smoser> rick_h_, i'm sorry. i've got to run.
<rick_h_> smoser: all good, thanks
<smoser> i can try to help tomrorow
<rick_h_> smoser: ty
<gamerchick02> https://www.humblebundle.com/weekly movies.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/iDYd8 - Humble Weekly Bundle: Indievision Presented by Devolver Digital (pay what you want and help charity)
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: yeah, this is a rough week
<cmaloney> http://bundleofholding.com
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/554dq - PARANOIA Bundle - it's mandatory!
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> i just bought two albums from blackbird blackbird yesterday so i'll probably miss those.
<gamerchick02> but wow that's a great deal
<gamerchick02> hrm...
<mrgoodcat> i was all exceited about amazon prime music until i actually tried to listen to something on it
<mrgoodcat> what a shit service
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, as soon as I saw "only popular music" it instantly became dead to me.
<cmaloney> Yay top 40 bullshit radio.
<mrgoodcat> not even
<mrgoodcat> eminem is conspicuously missing
<mrgoodcat> it's not even top 40
<cmaloney> it's what I lovingly refer to as "Secretary rock"
<mrgoodcat> it's like 30/40
<mrgoodcat> and not even the "top"
<mrgoodcat> woof
<cmaloney> That drivel that only administrative assistats listen to on their crappy clock radios at work.
<cmaloney> WNIC / WMGC.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> 95.5 the douche
<cmaloney> "background noise" or more appropriately "music to make me stabby"
<mrgoodcat> taking requests at 1-800-IMA-DCHE
<gamerchick02> ew
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-13
<havenstance> Morn
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> sun bad
<brousch__> sun good! provide energy and burning to flesh and retinas!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Which sun are you referring? The burning ball of life-giving energy, or the former home of Solaris and Java?
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> not ready to get up this morning
<rick_h_> if only that burning ball of fire could have taken a bit of a break today, I'd have been happy
<cmaloney> If that burning ball takes a break we're going to all be less than happy. :)
<havenstance> Man its beautiful out this morning
<cmaloney> Current conditions at Detroit City Airport, MI (KDET)
<cmaloney> Last updated Jun 13, 2014 - 07:53 AM EDT / 2014.06.13 1153 UTC
<cmaloney>    Temperature: 66.9 F (19.4 C)
<cmaloney>    Relative Humidity: 50%
<cmaloney>    Wind: from the NNW (330 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT)
<cmaloney>    Sky conditions: mostly cloudy
<jrwren> cursed day star!
<jrwren> no awesome ubuntu summit sessions to look forward to.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I completely missed them.
<jrwren> you can watch the recordings.
<jrwren> I highly recommend the keynotes.
<cmaloney> Subscribed to the channel
<cmaloney> Yet another thing I won't watch on Youtube. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> need a chromecast with the tv next to your monitor :)
<rick_h_> it's how I get 90% of my youtube watching these days
<cmaloney> My Subscriptions: 99+ videos
<cmaloney> Watch Later: 99+
<jrwren>  "Using the very charming Openstack Charms: a tutorial" was very impressive to see. smooth demonstrations.
<rick_h_> those guys are good
<cmaloney> jcastro: Is Texas Linuxfest still on with all of the flooding down there?
<cmaloney> (color me ignorant, mind you)
<cmaloney> ah, central texas
 * cmaloney doesn't know his Texas geography
<cmaloney> btw: shit just got real.
<cmaloney> I called WOW! to transfer the Internet to the new place.
<brousch__> Where's the new place?
<cmaloney> Madison Heights
<cmaloney> So I'm still in the area.
<cmaloney> Also, my FLGS is moving
<rick_h_> FLGS?
<cmaloney> http://gobretail.com/GOBisMovingThisSummer.php
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/gd5Qvc - GOB Retail Game Store is Moving to New Location This Summer
<cmaloney> Friendly Local Game Store
<rick_h_> oh
<brousch__> Moving to stay near you?
<cmaloney> Of course
<rick_h_> cmaloney: speaking of, what's the moving timeframe on the 21st?
<cmaloney> they're sweet like that.
<rick_h_> heh, good business sense :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Check G+ in a bit.
<brousch__> They should position themselves between your house and your coffee shop
<rick_h_> cmaloney: k, I've got conflicts but trying to find a slice of time
<rick_h_> brousch__: then the coffee shop would suffer.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: No worries.
<cmaloney> I think we're covere.d
<rick_h_> "hmm, I've arrived here but no $$ any more"
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok, well let me know. We've got a family graduation party that afternoon but can try to do something in the morning if you don't mind the boy being around
<rick_h_> wife is working wheee
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's fine. WHatever works with your schedule is fine.
<cmaloney> And thank you!
<rick_h_> oooh, my new lens is out for deliver, just in time for camping weekend
<brousch__> lens?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome
<cmaloney> Yeah, rick_h_ is now applying the Rick-ness to cameras. :)
<rick_h_> new hobby, photography!
<brousch__> ah, right
<rick_h_> going to shoot the full moon from the campground tonight woot!
<rick_h_> got my tripod all ready to go
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Wake me when you're getting a Steadycam. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
 * cmaloney expects that in the near future.
<rick_h_> I'm looking forward to heading back to london. Much better pics this time around.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I realized at my dad's 70th birthday that my camera is not that great.
<cmaloney> Passable, but pretty meh.
<rick_h_> yea, my last london trip set me off. So got a bretter sony point/shoot that was nice, but definitely up a notch now
<brousch__> Hm, that reminds me that I have camping photos to post
<brousch__> Some nice pictures and panoramas from Silver Lake
<rick_h_> woot
<brousch__> A nice lighthouse there too
<rick_h_> very cool, I don't know why but I like hitting up the lighthouses around
<rick_h_> we've done a couple lately and always enjoy
<brousch__> It's more exciting when you can go in them
<cmaloney> Yeah, I like heading to Lighthouses.
<brousch__> Good stuff in here. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6sqvdeglimourc8/AAAjbADlqPnpdT0H_UAXLoKla
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DTm8uu - Dropbox - 2014-06-07 - 2014-06-09 Silver Lake Camping
<brousch__> In this lighthouse you can go up to the top and see the fresnell lens
<brousch__> Then go out on the deck around the top
<cmaloney> I wish there was a way to completely and utterly block out the world cup. :)
<brousch__> The only world cup thing I have seen is you complaining about the world cup
<greg-g> cmaloney: is your work team international?
<cmaloney> greg-g: No, but I made the mistake of going to news.google.com
<cmaloney> and spent the next few minutes looking for how to filter anything related to the world cup
<rick_h_> are you not part of this world?
<cmaloney> I care about as much about the World Cup as I do about the World Series, The Miss America / Universe Pageants, and the Superbowl
<cmaloney> ie: I couldn't give a fuck.
<greg-g> it's funny, I can more reliably type my 30ish character gpg passphrase than my 9ish character user login password
<gamerchick02> how's the friday party in here?
<jrwren> i wish the friday party was in here :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-14
<rick_h_> woot woot
<rick_h_> stupid moon won't come out darn it
<jrwren> what time is moon rise?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Full moon Friday 13th was this morning
<cmaloney> Also: Everyone in this channel needs to see Tim's Vermeer
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1DPKGMHZU68DP/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00K31E8NQ
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3vsy46 - Amazon.com: Craig Maloney's review of Tim's Vermeer
<greg-g> we just saw the moon
<greg-g> it was huge, really low in the sky, but awesome
<greg-g> perfectly clear night out here
<tony-smlr> SMLR IS Live E128  - Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZROqdRCPc_c - Audio: http://live.smlr.us/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/9c7w2d - SMLR Live Episode 128 - - YouTube
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/aZ3pik - 404 Not Found
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> BTW: There's a rudimentary Squeezebox client fo rRoku
<cmaloney> It's not that great though
<cmaloney> And doesn't handle Flac files
<cmaloney> Which is why it's awesome that Squeezebox supports DLNA. :)
<gamerchick02> that's cool.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, had just put that on the tablet yesterday.
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, we finally saw the oon around 11pm but it was so low in the sky it was behind the trees
<rick_h_> by the time it got above the trees there wasn't much else to really frame a photo, but cool
<rick_h_> ok, that's it! http://r.bmark.us/u/2ff0418e67b295
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Tim's Vermeer?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You're NOT going to Portland. :)
<cmaloney> Just trust us on this.
<waf> rick_h_: oh my god this bookie auto-suggested-tags thing is awesome
<waf> getting back into using bookie, this is my first experience with it
<waf> so cool
<cmaloney> :)
<waf> anyone have a hack for "following" people on bookie? thinking i might yahoo-pipes it up
<waf> well, here's a pipe, you can add a csv usernames list for a single rss feed: http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=528e612c9db2a73fc1ef27bf4d4a012f&_render=rss&usernames=wafuqua,dyladan
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/6Z4QAm - text/xml; charset=utf-8
<jrwren> huh, my 7yo kid just noticed the Apoptygma Berzerk-Black EP cover is a QR code. it goes to a "hidden track"
<cmaloney> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-15
<gamerchick02> happy Sunday morning.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> it's been good, for sure.
<rick_h_> waf: cool yea one of the great things to come out of GSoC this year
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, will probably watch it tonight, been wanting to check it out
<rick_h_> waf: that's cool that pipes is still around. I thought they were closing it
<waf> yeah, me too
<jrwren> yeah, I thought pipes was long gone.
<gamerchick02> yahoo pipes?
<gamerchick02> gosh i remember mucking with that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-08
<shakes808> I looked throught the system logs and didn't see anything wierd.
<rick_h_> shakes808: I'd bet ssh key issue
<rick_h_> it's going to time out trying to auth if you leave it forever I bet
<rick_h_> or you've got something in your ssh config messing things up. Try using https for hte urls vs git@ and see if that makes any diff
<shakes808> Hello rick_h_,  I created a new one and associated on my computer and on GitHub
<shakes808> I will look into that
<shakes808> I seen you are shutting Bookie down.  Why?
<rick_h_> shakes808: understood, but unless you're using it on other repos just peachy I'd suspect that imo
<rick_h_> shakes808: just shutting down hosting everyone's stuff for free. I've been paying for it for a number of years as my 'hobby' but no time these days for it to be hobby space
<shakes808> That I am not.  New computer and trying to get things set back up to hack on my own stuff again
<rick_h_> so honestly just want to not be responsible for keeping it up, everyone's data backed up, and paying for the two servers it runs on
<rick_h_> shakes808: gotcha
<shakes808> Gotcha.  Understandable.
<shakes808> No one wanted to help contribute?
<rick_h_> shakes808: well, I think people like the idea but it's my baby and I can't make the time for it.
<shakes808> could have a small subscription fee ;)
<rick_h_> the reason to run a hosted version for folks was that it was 0 effort
<shakes808> Gotcha.
<rick_h_> so people used it, add effort and I bet most would not have used it
<rick_h_> shakes808: yea, thought about that. But there were some 500 people with bookmarks, if 10% payed $10/yr I'd be going through it for $500 a year
<shakes808> How did the students do with it? (interns or whatever you had)
<rick_h_> and then people would be justified in "I"m paying for htis...why isn't bug XXX fixed"
<rick_h_> they did great. The google summer of code was one of the best (and hardest) things I'd done with bookie
<shakes808> Ah
<shakes808> Sweet.  What is your next project?
<rick_h_> getting a kayak next week :)
<rick_h_> trying to work hard on getting outdoors as much as possible this summer
<rick_h_> good for the work/life balance and teaching the boy to enjoy getting outside
<shakes808> Sweet!  Lake or River Kayak?
<rick_h_> come this winter we might see.
<rick_h_> lake around here, but one that I can take on rivers as well
<shakes808> Cool.
<rick_h_> mostly for fishing, but the wife and I do like going on the au sable and such
<shakes808> I take my boy "camping" at Stony Creek.  I want to get out on some state land soon :)
<shakes808> Have you hit up the Field and Steam yet?
<rick_h_> yea, we've been using the camper for the last bit. We're on our 3rd summer with it
<rick_h_> hah no
<rick_h_> I grew up reading that though
<rick_h_> right now checking out kyak angler on the tablet :)
<shakes808> They opened up a shop at Oakland.
<shakes808> New building and all
<shakes808> Almost like Outdoor World / Bass Pro Shop up at Great Lakes
<shakes808> but less of a drive )
<shakes808> :)
<rick_h_> oh yea, pass by that on the way to CHCD
<rick_h_> CHC
<rick_h_> but the bass pro shops is a lot closer to me
<rick_h_> I'll probably hit it up at some point just to check it out, but it's a half hour + from me
<shakes808> Where are you guys hacking now?  I was in that area the other day and the coffee shop was vacant.  I thought it was changing to a new coffee shop.
<rick_h_> we've been in the royal oak 'bean and leaf' for the last year or so?
<shakes808> Oh, thought you lived out this way.  I know I see CMaloney from time to time.  It has been a while since the last sighting
<rick_h_> yea, I'm up north by DTE energy
<rick_h_> I always drive down for CHC
<rick_h_> it was setup down south to get other folks, I like driving :)
<shakes808> Gotcha.  I will have to stop in one day if I can break away from work at a decent time
<rick_h_> though wed night has turned into fishing night for me and looking forward to getting the kayal this week
<rick_h_> heh, it's at 8pm
<rick_h_> if that's not a decent time to stop work I don't know what is
<shakes808> :|
<shakes808> yeah
<shakes808> Last Thursday I got out around 6 and then had to go back in at 8:30 for some database changes.  I was there until 1AM
<shakes808> My schedule is all FUBAR
<shakes808> One of the reasons for me to mess around with NodeJS.  There is an opening at a place down the street and they gave me an assignment and trying feverishly to learn and get that complete
<shakes808> Trying to leave the place I am at now
<cmaloney> Evening everyone
<cmaloney> it's 9pm and time for meeting
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/916/detail/
<cmaloney> There's the agenda
<cmaloney> as you can see, there's not a whole lot on the agenda. :)
<cmaloney> So if there's something anyone would like to bring up please feel free.
<waldo323> I don't have anything to add
<shakes808> Had to reload my browser, not sure if this sent.
<shakes808> Can anyone take a look at http://pastebin.com/0J6u12gU
<shakes808> I don't know what I am missing.
<shakes808> It is a NodeJS tutorial.  NodeJS's solution is on top and mine is on the bottom.
<cmaloney> mornin'
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> woo!
<wolfger> awfully quiet party
<rick_h_> library party
<mrgoodcat> hrm... it appears something happened that should not have happened...
<cmaloney> ?
<cscheib> that sounds like the way a Canadian would phrase an error message for a scenario they hadn't accounted for
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-09
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party party
<rick_h_> so finally have the firm ok to go to mug tonight
<rick_h_> woot!
<phwelo> as do I, my first one will be this evening
<rick_h_> ah cool
<cmaloney> http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/ferndalebased-garden-fresh-bought-by-campbells-for-231-million/33478782
<cmaloney> phwelo: Awesome!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Very cool. I have something for you for your new mode of transportation
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lol, ruh roh
<cmaloney> Nothing big. :)
<phwelo> damn, interviewed for that Ford position last night at 3:30p and already got the offer :D
<rick_h_> lol
<wolfger> sweet
<wolfger> and it was a good offer?
<mrgoodcat> cscheib: yea it does haha
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: a syscall hung indefinitely on a process that was using more and more RAM and CPU resources. Since it was stuck on a syscall the SIGKILL signal was indefinitely queued.  Ended up having to reboot the hard way using the magic SysRq key since I don't have physical access
<jrwren> that sounds like the easy way.
<jrwren> the hard way is using physical access :)
<phwelo> wolfger: it's above what my wife and I settled on as a minimum, and it's going to get me experience with the topics I was looking for.  double plus
<rick_h_> phwelo: what's 'the topics I was looking for'?
<phwelo> mass deployment/cluster management/linux, the big compute stuff basically
<wolfger> <jedi hand wave> These are not the topics you're looking for. </jedi hand wave>
<rick_h_> phwelo: hah, I read that as 'maas deployment' :)
 * rick_h_ does too much work
<phwelo> that would be a boring job
<rick_h_> :P
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: the hard part was figuring out what the f$%# was going on
<mrgoodcat> phwelo: congrats on the job offer
<phwelo> ty mrgoodcat i'm pretty stoked
<phwelo> or i was until wolfger's jedi min trick
<wolfger> lol. Sorry.
<wolfger> Please, be stoked again.
<cmaloney> phwelo: That's awesome!
<cmaloney> unrelated: I moved my blog to Pelican
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net
<cmaloney> please let me know if I broke something. :)
<brousch> Loads fast
<brousch> You could at least link to Pelican in your post :P
<mrgoodcat> static blogging ftw indeed
<mrgoodcat> my site is rendered in JS client side but only static files are served so I'm not sure what you call mine
<mrgoodcat> there is rendering being done but i'm gonna go ahead and call it static anyways
<cmaloney> brousch: They're all over the site. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm also going to put up a proper post on why I switched.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: awesome
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thanks. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: photos sohuld link to photos.google.com?
<cmaloney> I don't know what the link is
<cmaloney> eg: how do I give a generic link to someone so they can view.
<wolfger> cmaloney: either you broke your feed or you haven't been posting, Mr. Javascript Slacker
<rick_h_> cmaloney: good point...guess it just links to collections/etc
<cmaloney> wolfger: I've been working on my blog
<cmaloney> funnily enough the reason I switched was because of Javascript learning
<cmaloney> but yeah, this weekend was pretty shot.
<wolfger> Depending on how recently you posted "Pelican Taking Flight", your feed broke
<wolfger> so, you know, alert those 3 people xD
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: some wordpress formatting code is still in your blog as plaintext
<mrgoodcat> look by the images in http://decafbad.net/2015/06/02/steve-jobs-biography/
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, that image needs fixing
<cmaloney> I used Markdown in Wordpress and it needs fixing.
<cmaloney> wolfger: Is the feed still broken?
<wolfger> still hasn't hit my reader
<cmaloney> wolfger: Has it hit yet?
<wolfger> negative
<cmaloney> Newsblur?
<cmaloney> You'll probably seeit around August.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: here you go, app activation at the container/system level vs just uwsgi https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/PpZVHD5Gfju
<brousch> cmaloney: I see the pelican post in my newsreader
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome!
<cmaloney> brousch: Cool. Thanks!
<cmaloney> brousch: Which newsreader?
<brousch> https://www.goread.io/
<jrwren> did someone say uwsgi? :)
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> the place cmaloney works at found uwsgi's ability to shut down apps and bring them up on first request quite useful
<rick_h_> the post there seems like lxd can do that for the whole container now
<jrwren> ah sweet!
<rick_h_> Socket activation with Systemd
<cmaloney> We've since turned UWSGI into our swiss-army knife and dessert topping
<rick_h_> lawn chair, monitoring system, coffee dispenser
<jrwren> cmaloney: uwsgi all the things!
<cmaloney> queueing and tasking
<jrwren> cmaloney: have you got it serving asp.net yet?
<cmaloney> spooling
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think I'd rather eat at Hardee's.
<rick_h_> what a fine OS you have there
<jrwren> lol.
 * rick_h_ wishes he can find hte thing where some big company took out some 0mq or something for scheduling because they finally realized ther kernel kind of did that for them
<jrwren> I think that socket activation is for the lxd daemon itself, not for containers that it spawns.
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah, well that's not as fun
<jrwren> rick_h_: agreed. I was all excited there for a second :)
<jrwren> but its "just" this: https://github.com/lxc/lxd/commit/c4eb0e6bfccb89ee9d003b0ff2d1632881b64005
<jrwren> which is still pretty cool.
<rick_h_> so was I, I love the idea of all these apps we write being in a container only started up/activated when I go to debug/talk to it
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's handy
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah ok well
<rick_h_> maybe for 2.0
<cmaloney> so you basically can have a bunch of things sitting "hibernated" waiting for requests.
<jrwren> rick_h_: :)   or maybe for 0.13?
<jrwren> cmaloney: right, but there is barely a difference between that and a processing blocked and waiting for Accept() :]
<jrwren> well, ok. I take it back. there is a difference.
<cmaloney> Save for the ability to be removed from memory.
<cmaloney> if I'm understanding properly.
<jrwren> inetd for container services.
<cmaloney> yeah, that's what I was thinking
<jrwren> its nice to see us reaping the benefits of systemd already :)
<phwelo> cmaloney, do you keep mug.org?  error when trying to follow the "i'll be there" button.  http://pastebin.com/G7uWRp9q
<cmaloney> God I really hate Smarty.
<cmaloney> sigh. Thanks. :)
<phwelo> np'
<phwelo> so i'll be there ;) hehe
<cmaloney> I think it has something to do with the template I'm using for creating the meetings.
<cmaloney> I'm going to try creating a new one.
<cmaloney> (for the next meeting)
<wolfger> cmaloney: yes, Newsblur
<widox> cmaloney: you should enjoy this http://curlpipesh.tumblr.com/  :)
<cmaloney> widox: THanks for that. :)
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<tony-smlr> the MUG  Michigan!/Usr/Group  starting soon!  http://youtu.be/B3UGxQphuaU
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-10
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> I love the Python community. I contacted the PyImageSearch guy and he sent me a free hard copy of his book to give away at the next GRPUG (which is a talk about OpenCV)
<brousch> I'm less enthused about O'Reilly's "partnering" changes. It's all ebooks now
<cmaloney> good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: yeah.
<cmaloney> though I completely understand the change
<brousch> I guess, but it was so nice to get a box of relevant books from them
<cmaloney> si si
<brousch> I was spoiled
<cmaloney> heh, us too
<jrwren> egon was right, print is dead
<mrgoodcat> so many things are dead and people don't even know it yet
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: whoa deep.
<mrgoodcat> books (paper of any kind really), cable tv, landlines, privacy, etc
<jrwren> life is time before death.
<mrgoodcat> i got sling tv and a digital antenna
<mrgoodcat> 1000 times happier than when i was paying for cable
<mrgoodcat> sling tv is targeted squarely at people like me who hate paying for cable or who never have (read millenials)
<mrgoodcat> millennials*
<brousch> Print is dying. It's not dead yet.
<jrwren> print will never die before me. You can have my paper book from my cold dead heads.
<cmaloney> The Roku is perfect for us because I have a hard time paying for something that is pre-programmed with stuff I couldn't care less about
<cmaloney> and paying handsomely at that
<jrwren> i would really like a programmed channel for kodi, that would be really cool.
<jrwren> channels even, so I could say, when you click this channel it plays this content at this time of day.
<cmaloney> Well, I understand the need for live programming
<cmaloney> I get that in spades
<cmaloney> but having pre-programmed content that can't be changed (eg: it's a Pawn Stars Marathon) is pretty silly.
<cmaloney> I know some folks use TV as background noise though so maybe I'm the fuddy-duddy here.
<jrwren> I love a good NCIS marathon on USA :)
<mrgoodcat> i use my tv as background noise
<mrgoodcat> usa not a OTA channel and not on sling so i dont get it anymore
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: I always disliked that. I know that many many people do it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-11
<cmaloney> Evening from Bean and Leaf
<jrwren> oh, its CHC time.
<jrwren> well, I think I'll participate remotely.
<cmaloney> Coolness
<cmaloney> I'm drinking a milkshake
<jrwren> and by participate remotely, i really mean i'll keep working :)
<jrwren> I've beeen || <-- that close to solving this problem all day :)
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> mmm, milk shake, I want one of those
<rick_h_> slurpee time here
<rick_h_> well, it was.../me stares at now empty cup
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> Incorrect
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> brousch: It's correct from where I'm sitting
<brousch> Christopher Lee has died
<cmaloney> Well, there is that
<brousch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305viYB-G1U
<ColonelPanic001> require 'nap.php';
 * cmaloney slaps ColonelPanic001
<cmaloney> We don't do PHP here. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I don't either, when I don't have to
<ColonelPanic001> but they pay me to, so I do
<cmaloney> heh
 * PainBank *laughs at cmaloney slapping ColonelPanic001 with his Javascript fish*
<jrwren> ciesta!
<jrwren> someday I should figure out how to work a ciesta into my schedule
<cmaloney> PainBank: You're following my Learning Challenge too?
 * cmaloney is getting a little nervous now. :)
 * jrwren follows
<greg-g> jrwren: re siesta, ditto, it was a great time when Rowan still napped
<jrwren> ha! siesta. I can't spell very well.
<cmaloney> Pebble Time watches showed up at home
<cmaloney> I'm at work.
<rick_h_> that sounds like a problem withe one clear solutoin
<rick_h_> *cough cough* 'going to head out early getting a headache..I mean..not feeling well
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I feel a case of the vapors.
<greg-g> veklempt
<greg-g> (is that how it's spelled?)
<cmaloney> Verklempt (sp)
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Talk
<mrgoodcat> more openssl CVE
<mrgoodcat> CVE-2015-1788 "logjam" if you want to google
<mrgoodcat> it's a ECDHE bad handshake downgrade attack
<jrwren> libressl ftw
<mrgoodcat> libressl was also vulnerable
<jrwren> *gasp*
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> gnutls ftw!
<jrwren> secure transport ftw.
<jrwren> mozilla nss ftw!
<jrwren> :)
<PainBank> cmaloney: yes I am.  it is enjoyable reads.
<PainBank> cmaloney: I'm having some fun learning AngularJS from www.codecademy.com
<PainBank> cmaloney: looks like they also have plain javascript.
<jrwren> jabbascript
<PainBank> that's funny
<mrgoodcat> java the hutt
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-12
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> 2015/06/12 02:02:01 [error] 11295#0: *60671 open() "/srv/www/decafbad/public_html/wp-login.php" failed (2: No such file or
<cmaloney> +directory), client: 91.121.134.148, server: decafbad.net, request: "POST /wp-login.php HTTP/1.0", host: "decafbad.net"
<cmaloney> I think this sums up why I wanted Pelican. :)
<cmaloney> This literally went on for an houor.
<cmaloney> hour.
<wolfger> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<cmaloney> I'd lov eto know why cgproxy will suddenly just start spewing log messages and eventually shit the bed.
<brousch> http://woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's been all over the news
<jrwren> reminds me of my uncle's C64 candy factory.
<cmaloney> Apparently Wikimedia is https starting a bit ago. :)
<cmaloney> Yay greg-g
<greg-g> https only, yeah :)
<greg-g> we were previously https for only logged in users, now it's everyone
<jrwren> why are you taking away my freedom?
<greg-g> the other funny part about our world at wikimedia/wikipedia is that logged out users/editors are LESS anonymous than loggedin ones
<cmaloney> I don't think people quite understand what controls systems mean
<greg-g> if you're logged out, your IP is public and associated with your edit, if you're logged in (which doesn't even require an eamil, just user/pass creation) you're now psuedonymous
<jrwren> oh, i was misinformed: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2015/03/06/tls-in-http2/
<jrwren> Fetched 4,028 kB in 0s (43.7 MB/s)    apt-cacher-ng   <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-14
<tony-smlr> SMLR E153 (6/14/2015) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiD-Kbk4HYA Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<wolfger> -yo
<cmaloney> yo + yo = yoyo
<wolfger> otherwise known as PainBank, I believe.... All this guy does is "pop in"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-13
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> everybody have a good weekend?
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> tiiiired
<mrgoodcat> me 2
<wolfger> $tiredusers++;
<cmaloney> Microsoft bought LinkedIn
<cmaloney> for 26.2 Billion?
<cmaloney> sorry, buying
<Zimdale> Now to see what the outcome of that will be...
<Zimdale> how linkedin will change to fit M$
<cmaloney> Hah
<Zimdale> does make working at linkedin look less appealing
<cmaloney> I don't see this ending well
<Zimdale> Probably will end well for the founders of linkedin
<cmaloney> no doubt
<cmaloney> I'm very glad I deleted my LinkedIn account a while ago
<cmaloney> I didn't need to have the classmates.com of work.
<Zimdale> Ehhhh
<Zimdale> linkedin has gotten me my past 2 jobs
<Zimdale> so I can't complain
<cmaloney> Yeah, it does have is uses
<cmaloney> its
<Zimdale> But to a certain extent it is kind of a joke
<Zimdale> kind of like flickr followers
<Zimdale> I wonder what M$ projects the ROI to be on linkedin
<Zimdale> maaaaan and stock took a 50% jump today
<_stink_> yep i'm sure you were all holding LNKD stock weren't you
<Zimdale> lol
<Zimdale> hopefully that was purchased after feb
<Zimdale> when it took a 50% drop
<greg-g> what's the slang term for a mechanic/person who fixes cars who works on them in the street?
<greg-g> "street mechanic" means something different than what I thought (according to DDG)
<cmaloney> greg-g: depends on the circumstances, but most of the time they fall under the a-hole moniker
<mrgoodcat> like in the street in front of their house?
<greg-g> yeah
<mrgoodcat> or a breakdown on the road?
<greg-g> but not the person who owns the car
<cmaloney> Is this part of their income / business?
<greg-g> someone who comes to your car and helps you get it started/whatever
<mrgoodcat> i wonder why the garage doesn't work
<mrgoodcat> oh i get it
<greg-g> cmaloney: think low income guys just doing odd-jobs
<cmaloney> Oh, different circumstances.
<mrgoodcat> like when a doctor makes a housecall
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> I thought I heard a term for it a long time ago, like "gutter wrench" or something
<mrgoodcat> https://www.yourmechanic.com/
<cmaloney> greg-g: Only thing that comes to mind is tow-trick driver and that doesn't always follow
<cmaloney> roadside mechanic
<greg-g> thanks for helpful answers :) (just not the slang term I thought I knew ;) )
<cmaloney> np
<greg-g> is yourmechanic some kind of "uber for" thing?
<mrgoodcat> must be
<greg-g> interesting
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's a slang term but unfortunately the only one that I know I call bro-in-law
<greg-g> cmaloney: :) yeah, I call mine my new neighbor CJ :)
<cmaloney> and none of the slang we use for him would be applicable in a general sense.
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Why not ask him? He might know
<greg-g> since I just started thinking about it and he's off at a job site (he a big implement operator for a construction firm)
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> He totally sounds like my dro-in-law
<cmaloney> if he starts asking for how to hook up a computer to his pressure sensor for figuring out shocks then you'll have his doppelganger.
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> he has all the tools, and a huge/beefy (but not dump'ing) trailer. He can pretty much fix anything
<greg-g> he replaced all the pipes in their house in a weekend the month after they moved in
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/tehawesome/status/742416211191857152/photo/1 <- bad language
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-14
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> mug meeting tonight
<cmaloney> be there or be somewhere else
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/metallicas-no-life-til-leather-box-set-shelved-indefinitely-due-to-legal-problems
<tony-smlr> MUG Presentation Security through SSH at Facebook about to start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqMdYfn0mE0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-17
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> Happy Friday all
<cmaloney> hf2u
<mrgoodcat> morn
<Zimdale> morn
<rick_h_> morning
 * rick_h_ is breathing a sigh of relief after he locked himself  out of the camper
<rick_h_> and had to send the boy in through a storage bay to break into it
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I remember those days
<rick_h_> lol
<shakes808> Does anyone know how to get around TFS to move a folder?   Folder structure is a -> b -> c;  trying to move c into a but it says that "Move - c  The target server path already exists in source control.  Please enter another path."
<shakes808> sorry, "Move - a  The target..."
<rick_h_> no idea, never had to suffer TFS
<shakes808> :|
<shakes808> right
<shakes808> I can get the .sln file to move, just not the folder :(
<shakes808> might just have to recreate it
<shakes808> Thank you
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> evening
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-18
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink_> in toronto
<_stink_> hockey tournament
<_stink_> so reasonably sore :P
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> free rpg day today
<cmaloney> and visited a newborn
<_stink_> did you get pooped on
<cmaloney> nope. Not yet.
<dzho> there's still time
<dzho> that, and puked on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-12
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<cmaloney> rick_h: Are you going to have that bike totally re-built by the time the summer is over? :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: almost. Don't think I'll do.both the fork and wheels but I might do new wheels before the summer is out
<cmaloney> heh
 * brousch can't keep up with rick_h 's obsessions
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> camping and biking atm https://goo.gl/photos/Lsvipm9hJGuRu9eA9
<rick_h> leaving for london friday and found a place to rent a bike and some trails to ride SW of london :)
<brousch> And photographing
<rick_h> yea, photography. Though I left it at home this weekend.
<widox> rick_h: I was just camping at the waterlook state park this weekend, my first time but it was pretty nice
<widox> its like 20,000 acres
<rick_h> widox: waterloo?
<widox> with trails and such
<cmaloney> I wouldn't want to mow that
<rick_h> lol
<widox> rick_h: http://www.michigandnr.com/parksandtrails/details.aspx?id=506&type=SPRK
<widox> near Chelsea
<rick_h> yea, waterloo rec area is good stuff
<rick_h> widox: you all tent it up?
<widox> oh, derp. s/waterlook/waterloo/
<rick_h> widox: yea, figured
<rick_h> widox: we've stayed in sugarload campground I think. There's a chain of them there across the waterloo pickney area there
<widox> :)
<widox> ah, we looked there first, but it was pretty crowed. we went to the portage lake area instead
<rick_h> nice
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTb1_w8hvqY <- The Pepper & Carrot comic that I auditioned for is up
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/NOuc4x
<shakes808> wordpress is selling their office
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/3131273
<rick_h> cmaloney: mmmm, rocks
<cmaloney> Considering I've had 0.2 minutes with a mitre saw I'm sure it'll end well.
<shakes808> cmaloney: you are totally qualified for that line of work!!! You should call back before that job gets taken with someone with 0.21 minutes of experience! :)
<cmaloney> shakes808: Totes
<greg-g> shakes808: we (Wikimedia Foundation) had our All Hands in the building a couple years ago. They can/could squish down everyone's desks into a tiny room on the side. Big open space for a party etc
<greg-g> re automattic
<shakes808> greg-g: right?!  if only a handful show up, downsize to accommodate.   but would be cheaper to just not have a location and everyone work remotely :)
<cmaloney> Sometimes folks need a place to do
<cmaloney> s/do/go
<cmaloney> Not everyone has the luxury of carving out a place in their living space
<greg-g> especially in SF
<greg-g> "working from home" usually advantages single young individuals, as well.
<cmaloney> https://gnu.singles/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-13
<cmaloney> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight: http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/info&reset=1&id=69
<widox> cmaloney: haha, gnu.singles. is it April 1st?
<cmaloney> Not sure.
<cmaloney> I think that was an april first joke now that you mention it
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/events/cmpj0ftcupgfhtmj5rd8f9kq078 <- MUG Meeting link
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-14
<rick_h> morning
<_stink__> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> "The Secret Service was already initialized"
<cmaloney> messages from gnome-keyring-daemon
<greg-g> cmaloney: you hope
<cmaloney> Yeah, when people are out to get you paranoia is just good thinking.
 * greg-g adjusts his tinfoil hat
 * cmaloney gets out the slinkys to help augment the radio signals away from his head.
<rick_h> I got one for michael for christmas last year
<cmaloney> a tinfoil hat?
<rick_h> it lasted two days before michael kinked it beyond use
<rick_h> slinky
<cmaloney> Thought you needed to be at least 10 to get one of those proper
<cmaloney> rick_h: Yeah, I think the half-life of a slinky is directly proportional to how much it's played with
<cmaloney> but it's cool that they're made in Canton MI
<greg-g> yeah, ours lasted a little while, but I was anal about it. Semi fixed it a couple times, now it just sits in the random toy bin unused :(
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> It's a strange-ass toy to be sure
<cmaloney> "hey kids, here's a coil of metal"
<rick_h> heh, well the first time you show them how it does stairs they're amazed
<rick_h> 20min later it's wrapped around them as a giant form of jewelry and the untangling commences
<rick_h> then you get where dad is into his 3rd hour trying to restore it at $4.99 for the toy he's currently earning about $2/hr of labor
<rick_h> greg-g: how goes the van shopping?
<_stink__> whenever i tried to demo the slinky on the stairs it didn't work
<cmaloney> _stink__: Yeah, it doesn't work well on USA stairs
<cmaloney> I think they changed stairs in newer homes to be wider
<cmaloney> as opposed to the death-traps of older homes
<cmaloney> rick_h: Hah
<rick_h> greg-g: van porn https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWysv3wFKyy6D8gj8lWmAuB7B--nAeSOT makes me want to get a van to tow with, well kinda
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "new updated modern slinky for fat stairs"
<cmaloney> rick_h: How many vehicles are you allowed in Clarkston before they send you to Hazel Park? :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: we've only got 2!
<rick_h> I WANT a wrangler, and a van, and a...
<rick_h> but contrary to my wife, I don't find a way to get EVERYTHING I want :P
<cmaloney> Just "mostly". ;)
<rick_h> I mean if anyone wants to send one of these my way I won't complain https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bronson
<brousch> We're looking at new houses and went through a 100+ year old home. My wife was afraid of the stairs
<jrwren> turnover is a good way you can have every vehicle you want, just not all at the same time.
<jrwren> if anyone wants to send me one of these, or even just lend... I'll praise ya! http://surlybikes.com/bikes/wednesday
<rick_h> jrwren: doesn't Tim roll with one of those?
<rick_h> jrwren: saw a guy on a nice fat bike last night. Crazy thinking of cranking those wheels round and round
<jrwren> rick_h: Tim has a fat tire for sure. I'm not sure if it is surly or not.
<jrwren> yeah... I finally realized, since I ride mostly for the exercise, no reason not to go for steel frame and fat tire :)
<rick_h> jrwren: I'm pretty sure it's a surly, just not sure which one
<rick_h> jrwren: <3 and with tires like that it's like having a suspension
<rick_h> it's why folks are <3'ing 27.5+ these days
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h> most common review comment is "feels like the bike has more travel than it does"
<jrwren> and in surly case its important cuz they don't have suspension
<rick_h> yea
<cmaloney> Suspensions are for people without butts
<cmaloney> gotta feel every pebble on that road.
<jrwren> OUCH
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> "alex is 8 and he's going in the baby pool" OH at home
<cmaloney> Big day
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-15
<cmaloney> morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<notlikethesoup> my desktop is borked and i'm stumped
<notlikethesoup> it will not boot into absolutely anything
<notlikethesoup> i already RMAd my motherboard, and gigabyte said it was fine and sent it back
<cmaloney> Even from external media?
<notlikethesoup> i tried a linux USB to no avail
<notlikethesoup> front and back USB ports
<cmaloney> Did you somehow turn secure boot on?
<notlikethesoup> i _believe_ not, i won't be able to check until after work
<notlikethesoup> the bios got reset, so it's basically just whatever stock settings
<notlikethesoup> my overclocking is no more :(
<notlikethesoup> but that's fine
<mrgoodcat> notlikethesoup: its still busted?
<mrgoodcat> i thought you said when i was there you were going to have it up and running soon
<notlikethesoup> mrgoodcat: lol well gigabyte took their sweet time with it
<notlikethesoup> but i just put it back together finally on tuesday
<notlikethesoup> spent about 4-5 hours on it since then trying to troubleshoot to no avail
<mrgoodcat> and its still borked
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> notlikethesoup: Have you tried turning it off and on again?
<mrgoodcat> ^^
<mrgoodcat> now that i can unlock 1password on my phone with a fingerprint i get mad every time i have to type the password in on my laptop
<notlikethesoup> cmaloney: lol maybe times
<notlikethesoup> i've had better luck using onboard graphics; trying to boot into windows i would freeze at the windows logo loading screen
<notlikethesoup> but with onboard i can at least get to the advanced startup
<notlikethesoup> however, still won't boot when i try to just continue into windows
<jrwren> Good morning.
<notlikethesoup> o/
<jrwren> notlikethesoup: have you tried running it with only the mobo, outside the case, resting on an insulator with no SATA plugged in and nothing else plugged in? that is step 1 to checking a mobo.
<jrwren> notlikethesoup: then, one by one component plug each thing in, with it out of case, check htat it runs that way.
<jrwren> notlikethesoup: then, if you must, mount it in a case and do the same procedure.
<notlikethesoup> i have not gone that in-depth yet, no
<notlikethesoup> good idea though
<jrwren> 22yrs ago I got a job in PC repair. It was only a little bit different back then. The same troubleshooting procedures apply.
<mrgoodcat> 22 years? i'm not sure why but I always assumed that you were my age
<mrgoodcat> you look younger over IRC
<jrwren> are you older than me?
<mrgoodcat> lol no
<jrwren> I always assumed you were 43 this year.
<mrgoodcat> i'm 24
 * jrwren chokes on coffee.
<mrgoodcat> unless you were repairing pcs when you were 2
<jrwren> I have that youthful attitude about me.
<mrgoodcat> i'm fairly sure i even met you once at chc
<mrgoodcat> never would have guessed you had 20 years on me
<jrwren> oh no. I was 18yo. It was my 2nd real tech job and my 3rd if you count part time laptop it admin when I was 15yo at my dads office.
<jrwren> well, only 16 yrs on you. lets not get hasty and call it 20.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<notlikethesoup> wait you're only 24?
<notlikethesoup> shit i thought you were at least a few years older than me
<mrgoodcat> i'll be 25 in july
<notlikethesoup> you've got 5 months on me
<jrwren> 15yrs on you then. :p
<jrwren> see, we keep getting closer and closer.
<mrgoodcat> no he's younger than me
<notlikethesoup> ^
<jrwren> well, when you were 1yo, I was 23 times your age!  Now i'm only 1.6 times your age. its a curve approaching a minimum.
<jrwren> oh, i'm saying 15yrs not 16 yrs. You turn 25 in July, I turn 40 in Aug.
<notlikethesoup> he's got a point
<mrgoodcat> haha that's one way to look at it
<notlikethesoup> let's not talk about the math from before we were born
<cmaloney> Apparently Amazon is rumored to be buying Slack
<greg-g> for a 9 with 3 commas
<greg-g> 9 effing billion
<cmaloney> Ayeeeeep
<cmaloney> Would love to know what they plan to do with it
<cmaloney> so I can be smug at the people who said that IRC was for losers.
<cmaloney> "Wah, I need my EMOJI and GIFs"
<dzho> "IRC, isn't that what botnets use to coordinate?"
<dzho> me: yeah, and most bank robbers wear shoes. what's you f'ing point.
<dzho> your*
<rick_h> what? AMZ buying slack? I could see MS, or some other folks with groupware type stuff in mind...but wtf would AMZ use it for?
<rick_h> "now you can ask the seller of your product about the product in real time!"
<rick_h> meh, I guess with echo and the video calling stuff maybe there's something there to building out a coms network
<greg-g> dzho: did you see that news story about a botnet now using comments on brittaney spear's instagram posts?
<dzho> I did!
<greg-g> what a crazy new world we live in
<dzho> I, for one, welcome the national security state's deep and offensive intrusion into every aspect of pop culture in the name of keeping us safe.
<dzho> you can't be too careful, right?
<dzho> I should have taken better notes, but the way I remember it, we had the shoe bomber, and so then you had to take off your belt and shoes to go through airport checkpoints.
<dzho> then came the underwear bomber and we all held our breath
<dzho> and that one guy walked into the airport starkers
<dzho> but as it happens naturism didn't become the new norm at the airport
<dzho> but they did roll in the only-slightly-increases-your-risk-of-cancer-what's-the-big-deal porno scanners
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-17
<rick_h> Afternoon
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Are we playing "where in the world is rick_h ?"
<rick_h> Wheee
<rick_h> You can win a great prize if you guess correctly!
<rick_h> Twitter followers not qualified to win
<rick_h> Blah blah blah
<cmaloney> Happy Afternoon (Twitter is almost impossible to follow without lists. :))
<rick_h> I've never ended up using lists. I should try it sometime.
<rick_h> How's MI doing today?
<cmaloney> Thy're clunky, but it also gives you a better timeline experience
<cmaloney> Humid and wanting to rain
<jrwren> I can guess correctly.
<jrwren> MI is hot and humid.
<rick_h> Lol jrwren with inside knowledge
<jrwren> I cut the grass nice and early and was still covered in sweat by the end.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Are you in MI or in London?
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm in AA
<cmaloney> Yeah, I cut the lawn  yesterday
<cmaloney> took advantage of the not sweltering
<jrwren> about to head to AA Farmers market and then to Milan for OG's 9yr aniversary party and some Ricewood BBQ. gonna be a great fathersday weekend.
<cmaloney> And I'm drinking coffee
<rick_h> I washed the camper before heading out. Cool water helps. Wasn't bummed to splash a bit while cleaning.
<cmaloney> OG?
<jrwren> Original Gravity
<cmaloney> Ah
<rick_h> jrwren: <3
<cmaloney> <3 indeed
<cmaloney> It's Free RPG day
<jrwren> rick_h: you biking yet? its mid afternoon there, yeah?
<cmaloney> (cue talk about rocket propelled...)
<rick_h> jrwren: tomorrow
<rick_h> Gave myself today to chill and get a room and such
<jrwren> rick_h: cool. I'm looking forward to some pics :)
<cmaloney> Renting or did you literally pack your bike?
<rick_h> Renting a mountain bike
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> Brought my bike computer so I can log I rode across the the pond lol
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h> So brought my shoes, backpack, riding tools, etc lol
<rick_h> Had to check a bike bag
<rick_h> Maybe years from now when I've got a nicer bike I'll ship it.
<cmaloney> Surprised you didn't do a carry-on with that
<cmaloney> I'm sure there were a few atoms of space left in yout carry-on that could have been better used. ;)
<rick_h> https://www.competitivecyclist.com/evoc-bike-travel-bag-pro?skidn=EVC0016-BK-S280L&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6RXZvYyBiaWtlIHRyYXZlbCBjYXNlOjE6MTY6RXZvYyBiaWtlIHRyYXZlbCBjYXNl
<rick_h> Lol
<rick_h> Can't fit it all damn
<cmaloney> https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/paratrooper-elite/
<cmaloney> I have NFC if that's a good buke
<cmaloney> bike, even
<rick_h> Nice! I've got xt setup on my bike
<cmaloney> But there you go. Carry-on in the overhead compartment.
<rick_h> The suspension and geometry is going to be a compromise but that's cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a given
<cmaloney> http://a-bike.co.uk/ <- get one of these while you're there. :)
<cmaloney> (It's Sir Clive SInclair's latest invention, which means it's a brilliant idea in a dodgy implementation)
<rick_h> Hah, there's an rv'er I follow on YouTube that got a bit like that for travel
<rick_h> https://youtu.be/i6P1MWFp9hA
<cmaloney> Yeah, I wanted to get a folding bike like that, but $$
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-11
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> Morning
<rick_h_> How goes the party?
<brousch> Everyone still has their clothes on
<rick_h_> Boooo
<cmaloney> dammit
<cmaloney> I was really hoping for naked dancing
 * cmaloney checks the user list
<cmaloney> nevermind
<jrwren> no, plz keep clothes on.
<jrwren> I think removing them may violate the CoC
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> ugh, layoffs. am i rite?
<greg-g> hmm?
<jrwren> layoffs at work. lots of coworkers gone :(
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> jrwren: Fuck, that sucks
<cmaloney> Never a good sign, from someone on both sides of receiving and sitting in a cubicle after they've happened
<jrwren> this is 3 jobs in a row that I'm ready to leave after layoffs :(
<greg-g> dang :(
<cmaloney> jrwren: Shit. I'm sorry to hear that
<greg-g> I'm going to be hiring a Sr Engineer soon :)
<greg-g> I don't have anything posted yet, but I'll be posting here as soon as I do
<cmaloney> <3
<greg-g> I have 2 hires to make this year (one Sr, one not)
<jrwren> it might take me a while to swallow my pride and go back to writing PHP. :p
<brousch> Bah, just convert it to Python!
<jrwren> why, so it can run 100X slower?
<jrwren> ICYMI, PHP is REALLY fast now.
<brousch> Bah, just get more servers!
<jrwren> that costs money.
<jrwren> you were just fired or not hired for understanding the economics of the project.
<jrwren> Also, servers cost a lot of electricity in running and cooling. just buying more servers is not green and hurts the environment and contributes to global warming.
<jrwren> Why do you hate earth, Ben?  WHY?!?!   :)
<greg-g> jrwren: my part of the org doesn't do PHP :)
<greg-g> jrwren: Python and Go
<jrwren> greg-g: I'm not sure if I should :) that or :( that.
<greg-g> definitely :)
<greg-g> I mean, we're a Jenkins + Zuul shop, so similar to OpenStack wrt CI infra. But we're moving to containers for everything with k8s etc.
<jrwren> running your own k8s clusters?
<greg-g> pawning that off to our SRE team, but yeah
<jrwren> a separate SRE team?
<greg-g> well... Our Operations team recently renamed themselves to SRE
<jrwren> now the can demand double the salary.
<greg-g> they'll try :)
<jrwren> so they'll be writing product code in all the products they host now too, right?
<greg-g> ish? I mean, they do have MediaWiki experts on the team who are heavily involved with arch review
<greg-g> not a major cultural/process change though, no
<greg-g> just modernizing the name, afiact
<jrwren> SRE's are supposed to be part of the team building the product and contributing to code on that product. *shrug*
<jrwren> at least according to https://landing.google.com/sre/book.html
<greg-g> yeah... I know
<jrwren> its interesting to hear how different orgs and changing and how they aren't.
<cmaloney> Just run all of Wikipedia off of a Raspberry PI
<cmaloney> problem solved
<jrwren> LMAO
<cmaloney> I mean, I can run whatevercloud 0.9 on it so it should scale
<cmaloney> whatevercloud is my PHP replacement for everything cloud-related
<cmaloney> instead of actually doing anything it just sits there with a spinner to remind you not to use the cloud for anything
<cmaloney> it's my art piece
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<cmaloney> Reminds me of the time when someone (not going to say who) came in wtih a Raspberry Pi "portable" setup
<cmaloney> He then began touting all of the benefits of a RPi, which I fully agree
<cmaloney> I think it's an amazing computer
<cmaloney> but he had a monitor on a monitor stand, and a power strip zip-tied to the back of it
<cmaloney> he then pulls out a keyboard and proceeds to look for the plugs at Bean and Leaf
<cmaloney> (This was at CHC Royal Oak, and if you remember tghe layout of CHC Royal Oak you'll remember that the place has two pairs of outlets that we've discovered)
<cmaloney> and they're usually occupied by folks who are also savvy to this
<cmaloney> He then moves his setup and then proceeds to demonstrate the power of the RPi
<cmaloney> which was fine. More power to him
<cmaloney> But when it came time to leave I folded up my x120e and stuffed it into my backpack while he was fiddling with breaking down his setup.
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> And all I could think of was my days as a drummer when folks would pack up their instruments and begin gabbing with each other while I was sitting there with a drum key taking my fucking drums apart
<jrwren> well, if that is what you value, i fold up my macbook air and stuff it or not, rather often. :p
<cmaloney> and then had to carry everything out to the car / bus afterward
<cmaloney> Yeah, again, more power to him
<cmaloney> but I value a little more portability than what the bog-standard Pi gives me
 * cmaloney is still curious about the PiTop
<cmaloney> and the Pinebook
<cmaloney> although I think those have their own issues
<jrwren> I ran a Pi on 4AA batteries once. It didn't last very long.
<jrwren> what version of Pi was it that was so beloved? because Pi1 was pretty underpowered and 2 and 3 are nice, but the IO limits are such that I'd not use it for day to day.
<flipsidecreation> Can anyone tell me a compelling reason to run an AntiVirus on Linux Desktop System?
<jrwren> wine can run windows viruses really well. :)
<flipsidecreation> that is a good point
<flipsidecreation> I noticed this exists https://www.eset.com/us/home/antivirus-linux/
<cmaloney> As far as protective measures for Linux I think it's pointless
<cmaloney> but as a means to run ClamAV on a Windows mount it makes sense
<cmaloney> jrwren: The 3B+ is supposed to be the hotness now
<cmaloney> but yeah, the Pi is rather weak for I/O
<jrwren> i have a couple 3B+ and the IO is still terrible.
<jrwren> its great at everything else. I like it.
<cmaloney> 3B+ or 3B?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have a 3B doing Mycroft using the Google AIY kit
<cmaloney> http://mycroft.ai
<cmaloney> AKA the AI that I want to see succeed just as soon as it stops running into the walls
<jrwren> 3B+
<jrwren> new just a month or so ago.
<jrwren> 1.4Ghz instead of 1.2Ghz and teh wifi and bt4.1LE
<cmaloney> Ah, coolness
<jrwren> it actually hosts my xmtp.net email :)
<cmaloney> The one that I really am interested in is the RISC-V chip
<jrwren> a buddy found a place that will co-locate PI for $7/mo and so we are paying for that.
<cmaloney> Oh that's awesome
<cmaloney> Local, or out-of-state?
<jrwren> out of state.
<cmaloney> https://snapcraft.io/tootstream <- up-to-date packages my aching arse.
<waldo323> a2hosting's unlimited plan isn't unlimited space :-\
<Scary_Guy> https://v.redd.it/sjmsub4wrd311/DASH_2_4_M
<waldo323> I used the pi 3 b+ for the photobooth I brought to penguicon witch Craig's photobooth software on it
<greg-g> waldo323: yeah :( I ended up getting a weird "big data" VPS from a company I wasn't familiar with for my backups. 1tb for $10/mo
<waldo323> my dad has photos from the 50s or earlier through now which we put on my space when then flickr+smugmug announcement came and before they said they would keep the free plans
<waldo323> dad has now found it is easier to upload to my site than it was to upload to flickr :)
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> i need to find some offsite vackup
<cmaloney> witch Craig photobooth... ;)
<cmaloney> it's funny because thebtheme was Pepper&Carrot
<greg-g> cmaloney: I use https://www.serverhub.com/vps/ssd-cached for my git-annex and duplicati remotes. I can't vouch for their quality other than my host hasn't seen any apparent issues
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-12
<cmaloney> greg-g: Thanks. Will check them out
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> tired
<rick_h_> timer every 2hrs to take the puppy out wheeee
<cmaloney> Oh! Congratulations!
<cmaloney> I'd spaced on when that was happening
<rick_h_> thanks
<rick_h_> yea, put a couple of pics around but trying not to go nuts posting puppy pics
<cmaloney> Fuck it. Go nuts
<cmaloney> This is an exciting time
<cmaloney> If folks get tired of it it's on them to figure out how to filter it
<rick_h_> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WAzI7MXT0bf7Kkfe2
<rick_h_> yea, she came home sunday
<rick_h_> so adjustment time!
<cmaloney> OMG she's adorable
<cmaloney> "IT'S ALL NEW! I MUST SMELL ALL THE THINGS!"
<cmaloney> JoDee says she's jealous: she's so sweeeeeeet
<cmaloney> How is Jordyn taking the new arrival?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: she's jealous as can be and grumpy
<rick_h_> the poor pup just wants to play but Jordyn is not a fan atm
<rick_h_> cmaloney: but yea, she's really sweet so far. Passing all the tests. Have folks working on the bathroom and all the banging/etc yesterday didn't phase her. Ran the vacuum and she just curious looked on from 8-10ft away.
<rick_h_> her temperment so far seems really really even keeled which is great
<cmaloney> Nice!
<cmaloney> Poor Jordyn. I hope she can learn to adopt Kona
<rick_h_> Yea, in time I hope they'll play. Jordyn likes to try to get other dogs to play but this one is taking attention away
<rick_h_> give it more than 2 days heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, first day is always the day when folks are jealous of the "new guy"
<rick_h_> Yea, it's going to be fun because the puppy needs all the training and jordyn is like "hey, I'm doing it already! Give me the treat!"
<brousch> My friends just got a pomsky (pomeranian husky). It's like a stuffed animal
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> that's an interesting mix
<rick_h_> ok, had to look and now I regret it. That's just nuts! https://goo.gl/SMXsvA
<cmaloney> OMG
<cmaloney> Yes
<cmaloney> It's almost like whenever you mix a Corgi with any breed it looks like a Corgi cosplay
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Supposedly it will reach 20lbs
<waldo323> hope to see everyone who can make it to mug tonight
<greg-g> that's kinda cute (pomsky)
<brousch> It's very cute, and fluffy
<Scary_Guy> looking forward to it waldo
<jrwren> I need a job. Who wants to hire someone ?
<rick_h_> jrwren: uros is hiring for casey's team?
<jrwren> ugh.
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> sorry rick_h_, no thanks. :)
<jrwren> I do miss all of those people though. Such great guys.
<jrwren> and gal
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, just had to mention it
<jrwren> how is JAAS going? got customers?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ugh. Sorryot hear that.
<cmaloney> jrwren: If you feel like it send me your resume / cv and I can pass it along tonight at MUG
<cmaloney> Also I think Quicken Loans folks are looking for someone with Kubernetes experience
<jrwren> maybe just pass it on to lmorchard, because I'd love to work for mozilla :p
<cmaloney> I can put you in touch with Mat Piccinato
<jrwren> I don't think i can bring myself to work for QL.
<cmaloney> Yeah, no shit
<cmaloney> Maybe we need to start the brain trust of redundant engineers
<jrwren> I interviewed with QL 10yrs ago and the kool-aide vibe was too much for me.
<cmaloney> consulting firm
<cmaloney> Definitely
<rick_h_> jrwren: so working on onboarding two "experts" basically folks that use JAAS as a platform for delivering stuff to customers
<jrwren> rick_h_: cool! Glad to hear some stuff is finally panning out.
<rick_h_> jrwren: there's also some openings I know of at DO. Alexis and Antonio went there and both have engineering spots open
<jrwren> now THAT is a good idea. thanks rick_h_. I've been struggling to think of cool places to work.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I keep up with them a bit and I hear nothing but good stuff come out of folks there
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-13
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning, how was MUG?
<waldo323> social
<waldo323> and good
<cmaloney> Yeah, we talked about Mastodon and the federated we
<cmaloney> web
<brousch> I'm going to talk about Mycroft AI at the next GRPUG. Open source Alexa/Siri/Google Home thingy
<waldo323> oooo nice
<waldo323> do you record your meetings?
<brousch> No
<brousch> But if it works well, I could maybe bring it to MUG later in the summer
<cmaloney> brousch: That's awesome!
<cmaloney> WE're booked up through the summer (actually to 2019, scarily enough)
<brousch> That's incredibl
<cmaloney> I'm loving Mycroft, even though it's a little daft
<brousch> e
<brousch> Do you use it?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's weird for us as well
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have it in a Google AIY box
<cmaloney> Do you have the MArk I?
<brousch> No, I kickstarted the mark II
<cmaloney> Ah
<brousch> I'll just be running it in a Linux VM on Monday
<cmaloney> But you've been playing with the desktop / picroft versions?
<cmaloney> Check out Picroft if you get a chance
<cmaloney> it's kind of neat to see a $35 computer in action
<cmaloney> also if you can get over to Microcenter you can pick up the AIY kit for $5-$10
<cmaloney> and the give it a nice box to live in
<brousch> It's been on my radar for a while, but I haven't dug into it. Then last week I helped a blind programmer with some stuff and realized how useful it could be to him
<cmaloney> Yeah
<brousch> I have 2 3D printers, so a cardboard case feels weak
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> What's cool about it is it includes the mic and hat
<cmaloney> If you want I will happily pick one up and ship it to you
<brousch> I hadn't heard of that kit. Very nice. This is $10 at microcenter? https://www.target.com/p/-/A-53416295
<cmaloney> There's a different kit at Microcenter
<cmaloney> it needs a RPi3 to work
<jrwren> not a 2?
<cmaloney> http://www.microcenter.com/product/483414/AIY_Voice_Kit
<brousch> I have a few 3s sitting around
<cmaloney> I don't  think it'll work with a 2
<cmaloney> 3B?
<brousch> I think so
<cmaloney> Yeah, if you're interested LMK and I'll pick one up / ship it
<brousch> Ah, it's everything except the pi. Nifty
<cmaloney> since they won't ship it (sadly)
<cmaloney> and unless you're coming over to this side of town soon it doesn't make sense
<cmaloney> Oh geez, the next meeting is on the 18th?
<cmaloney> Yeesh, I don't think it could get there in time
<waldo323> road trip
<brousch> Yeah, I won't have time to play with that before the meeting, but it would still be nice
<cmaloney> Yeah, road trip
<cmaloney> come on out for CHC tonight. :)
<cmaloney> OK. I'll still pick one up then and send it off
<brousch> I'll bet I could put together a Microcenter carpool event
<cmaloney> Oh hell yes
<waldo323> or each party drives an hour or so to lansing or whatever the mid point is
<waldo323> microcenter trips are fun though
<cmaloney> And he fun thing is Microcenter is not that far from our house
<waldo323> or the game store
<brousch> We lost all of our radioshacks last year, so there really is nothing but Best Buy here any more
<cmaloney> Yeah, Guild of Blades
<cmaloney> Ugh. That sucks
<cmaloney> or Office Depot, but that's hardly a replacement
<brousch> Who's going to PyOhio?
<cmaloney> I'm planning on it
<brousch> I just made my reservation at the Blackwell
<cmaloney> Nice
<Scary_Guy> is the hardware on that voicekit open?
<cmaloney> I'm not sure.
<cmaloney> I don't think so
 * Scary_Guy shakes fist
<cmaloney> We think there might not be any power at the Bean & Leaf
<cmaloney> in Royal Oak
<waldo323> oi
<waldo323> what about in your neck of the woods and places like microcenter?
<waldo323> heading out have a good evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-14
<jrwren> anyone into doing ASP.NET dev? https://www.autobooks.co/about.html is hiring. Ping me if you are interested.
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: There's an AIY kit winging its way to you
<cmaloney> Courtesy of waldo323 and I
<brousch> I don't care what everyone says, you East-siders aren't so bad
<rick_h_> hmmm, maybe. I'm not so sure :P
<brousch> OK, so if I put together a Sunday Microcenter Day Trip with a few fellow makers, what would you suggest as another stop?
<rick_h_> cmaloney's house
<rick_h_> he'll provide beverages in the back yard and extension cords to power purchases :P
<cmaloney> You might be able to arrange a trip to i3 if you contact them first
<cmaloney> i3 is the makerspace out here
<cmaloney> There's also several pizza places in the area if you want Detroit-style pizza
<cmaloney> If you have any games there's GOBREtail on 14 and Rochester road (just east of it)
<cmaloney> east of 14 that is
<brousch> The 2 people I think most likely to go aren't gamers and aren't drinkers. i3 is good idea
<waldo323> wile not necessarily something for all makers, if you have any camping/hiking/outdoor sport needs a trip to one of the 2 REI stores could be a good place to visit
<jrwren> is there REI over there now? I thought Ann Arbor was the only one.
<rick_h_> there's been one at 16mi for years
<jrwren> cool.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's still there last I checked
<cmaloney> https://bridge.joinmastodon.org/
<waldo323> Northville (6 mile and haggerty) has one and it has been there since at least 1999/2000
<waldo323> oi so I guess there are 3 stores
<jrwren> oh yeah! i forgot about that one.
<jrwren> that has been there for a LONG time.
<jrwren> i'm blinded by Ann Arbor.
<waldo323> when we moved from grand rapids to the detroit area my dad was pretty excited about the one in northville as there weren't any in grand rapids
<rick_h_> yea, and that northville one seems to have more stuff in stock than the troy one
<cmaloney> The Troy one seems like an after-thought at times. ;)
<cmaloney> not that I go to REI much, but it seems like it
<jrwren> man, I bet REI corporate would LOVE to hear this conversation.
<jrwren> why does it feel like an afterthought?
<rick_h_> heh, I hit up the troy one all the time since it's easiest for me to get to
 * rick_h_ is a long time member and look forward to rewards season
<cmaloney> jrwren: Could just be me projecting.
<cmaloney> I'm not exactly the most active egg in the carton
<rick_h_> active egg? /me wonders
<cmaloney> http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1253155 <- active egg
<rick_h_> oh wow, would not have made that connection
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I retro-made that connection
<DrDaemonEye> Well, I am getting laid off at the end of the month
<cmaloney> Yay
<cmaloney> I mean boo
<cmaloney> but at least you have some time to get things lined up
<DrDaemonEye> yep
<cmaloney> Hoping hte search is short and fruitful
<cmaloney> LMK if I can help it, even if it's someone to commiserate with
<DrDaemonEye> thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> np
<waldo323> what type of position will you be looking for? and what location?
<DrDaemonEye> waldo323: Junior/mid software dev or sys admin in the A2 area.
<greg-g> dang, everyone in here
 * greg-g knocks on wood
<DrDaemonEye> Nope, just us ghosts
<cmaloney> The great 201X shakeout
<cmaloney> I say we just make a giant computer co-op
<cmaloney> And play with a lot of tech toys
<cmaloney> we can call oruselves ToysRUs
<cmaloney> I think they're done with the name
<DrDaemonEye> lol
<cmaloney> https://opentechstrategies.com/#jobs
<cmaloney> Looks like they're looking for a Project Manager
<rick_h_> jrwren: any idea why a makefile ifndef fails to detect my env var on zsh?
<widox> heh. I'm also jobless
<widox> though, I'm enjoying it so far :D
<cmaloney> widox: Wow
<cmaloney> And yet still unable to make it up to Royal Oak, huh?
<widox> I purposefully quite though
<widox> cmaloney: haha
<cmaloney> widox: Ah, that's good to hear (that it was purposeful)
<widox> I need to make it out soon. been too long!
<cmaloney> Yeah, your amazing beard has been missed
<widox> :D
<widox> its still attached...
<cmaloney> bbiab.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-15
<brousch> Scary_Guy: The Mycroft Mark I claims to be open hardware https://mycroft.ai/product/mycroft-mark-1/
<cmaloney> Yeah, the Mycroft is essentially a RPi
<brousch> I'm going to try to have Mycroft give much of my talk via a custom skill
<brousch> Slide deck + prompts like "Hey mycroft, tell me about the mark one"
<cmaloney> niceQ
<Scary_Guy> I meant the audio kit, not the actual mycroft, but the raspberry pi isn't even open hardware so :/
<Scary_Guy> thank you though
<waldo323> good morning
<jrwren> rick_h_: no idea. maybe its a shell far and not an exported env var?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, exactly. I forgot to add export to the zshrc call. It was next to PATH=... updates which didn't have it and I missed it
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/100209090737997936
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it drove me nuts because echo $GOPATH worked but when I saw it wasn't in the env output it got the brain working
<greg-g> finally setup https://weechat.org/scripts/source/urlserver.py.html/ and I like
<greg-g> use case for me: people sharing logstash urls which do the stupid "the entire state of the app is in the url" thing
<cmaloney> Yeah, those are rubbish
<Scary_Guy> for the long URL's ctrl alt click selects a field in the console usually,  but I like the catcher anyway
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-16
<havenstance> mornin
<DrDaemonEye> heya havenstance
<cmaloney> Hello
<jrwren> http://grrcon.com
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-17
<brousch> cmaloney: OH weird. This voice kit came with 2 stickers for a Hypnotic Dirge Records. How did they know what I like?
<cmaloney> l)
<cmaloney> brousch: Straaaange. :)
<brousch> I got the picroft working with usb mic and external speakers, but couldn't get the hats working. Apparently someone made a special disk image for the AIY kit, but I used the standard image
<brousch> Reminds me of why I haven't touched this kind of thing in 2 years :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, you need the AIY image
<cmaloney> https://community.mycroft.ai/t/mycroft-with-google-aiy-voice-kit-disk-image/2607
<cmaloney> This is what I'm using
<cmaloney> boop
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-09
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/mojo-4
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  now I have an outdated bike lol
<cmaloney> MUG tonight: http://mug.org
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: time for a new one i guess
<mrgoodcat> i ended up pulling the trigger on a tallboy. not sure if i mentioned or not
<mrgoodcat> 130/140 seems to be a really common setup these days among folks who used to run like 110-120 range. Think modern suspensions are just so good that the additional 1-2cm isn't the pedaling penalty it used to be
<mrgoodcat> I like the description as "all mountain playbike"
<mrgoodcat> almost a 77 degree seat tube wowzers
<jrwren> i thought 27.5" was out of style.
<jrwren> lol... now I'm reading https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-why-is-everyone-talking-about-seat-tube-angles.html
<mrgoodcat> with a 2.6" tire you get almost the outside diameter of a 29" wheel with a traditional size like 2.3
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea
<mrgoodcat> I retrofitted a steeper seat tube on my bike (slid my saddle forward) and I can tell you it makes a huge difference climbing
<mrgoodcat> and since i use my dropper liberally I don't really care about my seat for descending
<mrgoodcat> michigan trails have a lot of flat pedally sections though which is where that steep seat tube can be a little uncomfortable
<jrwren> you guys are hardcore.
<mrgoodcat> i've only biked somewhere just under 400 miles this year so far. many people i ride with have done more than twice that
<jrwren> i've biked a few miles this year :)
<jrwren> literally... 4 or 5.. just a few.
<mrgoodcat> I'm thinking about converting my stache (hardtail, 29er x 3.0) to single speed
<mrgoodcat> have a 28t crank so even with the big clown tires on it i think a 16t rear cog would be probably ok
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/events/5514/monthly-meeting/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-11
<jrwren> oops, accidentally pulled the power cord
<jrwren> welp, new kernel. YAY
<cmaloney> woo!
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> uptime reset
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h> wheee
<cmaloney> rick_h: back in MI?
<rick_h> yea, got back last weekend
<cmaloney> Cool deal
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-12
<jrwren> FYI, the apache in 20.04 does TLS virtual hosts differently than all previous ubuntu. You have to turn SSLEngine On in each virtual host on port 443.
<cmaloney> of
<cmaloney> oof
<cmaloney> refresh my memory: is that for each entry in the config then?
<cmaloney> That's not horrible, but quite the surprise
<jrwren> yes each vhost entry, often separate .conf files
<jrwren> and yes, it isn't horrible, it is really as it should be.
<jrwren> but it is a surprise change.
<jrwren> esp for a minor patch upgrade.
<jrwren> apache httpd 2.4.something to something bigger.
<jrwren> hrmf... packages.ubuntu actually shows 2.4.41 for both... so I don't nkow what changed.
<jrwren> very strange either way.
<cmaloney> I hate it when something like that gets snuck into a point release
<cmaloney> x.x.+1 == guess what your afternoon now includes.
<jrwren> well, now that I see they are both 41... I'm thinking maybe I fucked my config months ago and I didnt' realizei t.
<jrwren> so... mabye it isn't different between ubuntu revs.
<cmaloney> might be the mod_ssl or whatever module that updated?
 * cmaloney is not a huge fan of how apache mod stuff works
<jrwren> oh yeah, durp, good call.
<jrwren> but... that is built into apache since like 1.3 or something.
<jrwren> so that is 2.4.41 as well.
<jrwren> haha... we are too old, we remember when it was separate.
<cmaloney> I never remember what's built-in or separate
<cmaloney> all I know is I never remember to include whatever I'm missing
<cmaloney> Anytime something wonky happens with Apache it's about 20 minutes before I remember that there's modules
<cmaloney> and that a2enmod exists
<cmaloney> nginx has spoiled that knowledge
<cmaloney> (And yes, I'll own that it's my problem, not Apache's issue)
<jrwren> the only reason I haven't converted to nginx is... its like 10 vhosts and I'm too lazy to convert each. lul.
<jrwren> no, i think it IS apache's issue.
<jrwren> why is apache so complex compared to nginx?
<cmaloney> No idea
<cmaloney> I had to deploy using Apache for a project and it was like remembering that carbureators and mixing gas with oil was still a thing
<rick_h> not moved to nginx yet still?
<rick_h> finally have that in the archive thank goodness
<jrwren> yeah, like I said... just too lazy to take the hour to migrate to nginx
<rick_h> oh heh should read all the way down before replying :)
