#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-02
<beardygnome> hi all, can anyone tell me why natty has stopped mounting external fat32 drives as executable?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> good morning, my xubuntu installs seems messed up, icons on left, can't pull up setting for window manager, can't add workspaces (natty)
<charlie-tca> try Alt+F2, xfsettingsd
<charlie-tca> do you have a wallpaper?
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> got window title bars
<charlie-tca> ?
<micahg> yeah, but no menus and the title bars are blank
<charlie-tca> Alt+F2, xfwm4
<micahg> xfwm4 won't run, my checks why
<charlie-tca> or maybe, Alt+F2, xfce4-settings-helper
<charlie-tca> xfwm4 might already be running
<micahg> nope
<charlie-tca> that seems wrong
<charlie-tca> pretty sure you need it
<micahg> hmmm --replace worked
<charlie-tca> is gnome window manager running?
 * micahg wonders what wm was running and why
<charlie-tca> I don't the answers no more
<micahg> well, buttons/settings are back at least
<micahg> thanks charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> once in a while a remember the commands mr_pouit makes me run when I screw things up
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-03
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<hobbsc> mornin'
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Do you want to take over admining the xubuntu-users ml?
<cody-somerville> (too late, its yours now :P)
<TheSheep> cody-somerville: hehe, the latest outburst tipped it?
 * cody-somerville just wants to stop receiving the moderation and admin e-mails for it, haha
<charlie-tca> no?
<charlie-tca> I suppose it's too late for No, I don't really want it
<charlie-tca> but, okay
<charlie-tca> A nice review by someone well known - http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/441252-xubuntu-1104-solid-sleek-and-speedy
<ochosi> charlie-tca: up to now the comments/feedback/reviews (that i read) have all been really positive about xubuntu natty
<charlie-tca> that's what I have seen too. And both the theme and wallpaper are getting good reviews
<ochosi> yep, actually i also haven't ready any complaints about the switch to gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> which is a rather good sign
<ochosi> usually people start shouting when default apps are changed
<charlie-tca> Haven't been any, yet. I think everybody did a great job!
<ochosi> i kinda expected that
<ochosi> (i mean i expected the shouting)
<ochosi> yeah, same here!
<charlie-tca> Maybe they are so upset with Ubuntu/Unity, the rest is not enough to shake anyone?
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> not unlikely
<ochosi> btw, would you mind collecting those reviews (or at least links to them) in the wiki?
<ochosi> at least the extensive reviews
<charlie-tca> We should be able to
<ochosi> to be able to check later in the comments whether there were suggestions we want to consider
<holstein> w00t
<charlie-tca> stick em in something like /Xubuntu/Marketing/Reviews?
<holstein> XUBUNTU!
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, that'd make sense
<charlie-tca> I like that idea
<ochosi> okeydokey, gotta go
<ochosi> night everyone
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> np
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-04
<ckontros> Hey guys. Im Cory former lead for Ubuntu Studio. Im coming back for a cycle. I tried to upload changes to one or our branches on LP and cant. Are you guys going through the same thing. Is something frozen this early in the cycle?
<ckontros> I noticed all the branches are owned by james-w and not the -dev team.
<charlie-tca> I don't think it is open yet
<ckontros> Thats the only thing I was thinking.
<charlie-tca> Toolchain upload is due May 5
<ckontros> So I may be trying to work a bit early.
<charlie-tca> possible
<charlie-tca> I can't say for sure
<ottod> I just logged on to this channel to congratulate the Xubuntu developers for their 11.04 release. It is the best so far for me, even better than main version.
<knome> ottod, thanks.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-06
<alex6567> hello! what is best ide for cpp linux gnome?
<jussi> alex6567: depends very much on your taste - could go ask bestbot in #ubuntu-bots
<TheSheep> alex6567: vim
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-07
<SiDi> ffs can't even curse on public irc channels
<SiDi> :(
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-30
<Xubuntu_dasads> hello
<pleia2> knome: 698 followers! ;)
<pleia2> 699!
<Unit193> I'm not one of them.
<olbi> hello
<olbi> I have installed xfce 4.10 pre2 from repo on launchpad and in session-menu I have hibernate, close etc as gray and can't click it
<Unit193> This isn't a support channel, hibernate was disabled in P, and 4.10Xfce isn't supported either.
<olbi> grrr with hibernate :P it sometimes was helpful :)
<Unit193> You can reenable it, it's in the relnotes.
<micahg> we should be getting 4.10 for quantal
<olbi> I know it, but 12.04 is LTS :)
<micahg> olbi: and 4.10 released 3 months late :)
<micahg> LTS means bug/security support, not new versions
<olbi> micahg: I know it, this is not good for the general reception but we should thx for so many good changes :)
<ochosi> hi everyone
<olbi> hello ochosi :)
<olbi> I have 30 degrees in Lodz, Poland. How is yours? :)
<knome> micahg, for the supportability of the lts, i was thinking if it made sense to SRU xfce 4.10 :P
<Unit193> With or without him killing you? And I already said it wasn't, you know you don't want to make me wrong.
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> olbi: 30 as wellhere
<micahg> knome: not a chance :)
<knome> micahg, really? why not ;)
<micahg> I don't even think I'd approve a backport (or would at least have to think about it long and hard)
<knome> start thinking :]
<micahg> let's get the stack working in quantal first
<knome> sure, but if you need a long think... better to start that now ;)
<olbi> good that bluebird works good now :D
<mr_pouit> o hai
<knome> hey mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, 4.10 in quantal
<mr_pouit> and +1, not a chance for the big sru
<knome> :|
<knome> even if that helped the support burden?
<mr_pouit> you need to update all xfce packages, that's a no-no
<knome> k
<knome> when is the final release of 4.10 in a PPA then :P
<knome> people are asking for that *a lot*
<mr_pouit> maybe today or tomorrow
<mr_pouit> there's no new feature between pre2 and final...
<mr_pouit> so people won't see anything new when they already have pre2
<mr_pouit> and there's still an upgrade issue I haven't cleared yet (in my ppa, apt will decide to hold back xfce4-session, xfce4-appfinder and xubuntu-desktop, no good)
<knome> mr_pouit, yeah. but those who have not installed any ppa yet
<knome> mr_pouit, stupid to point them to rc2 now and tell them it's going to change later :/
<mr_pouit> or they could wait and profit of 12.04 :}
<Unit193> ^
<knome> yeah, well...
<knome> more people "voiding the warranty", less people to support...
<knome> ;)
<reon> Hi peoples
<reon> Any idea when the 4.10 PPA will be populated? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xfce-4.10
<knome> mr_pouit, as i said... stupid.
<knome> reon, soon
<reon> knome, :) I got itchy fingers and really keen to try it out. I'm considering building it from the tarballs but I would much rather just use a PPA.
<mr_pouit> knome: I can already copy the pre2 packages to the xubuntu-dev ppa, eh
<knome> mr_pouit, your choice - if you are sure that doesn't create any regressions, fine
<mr_pouit> if I were be sure it didn't create any regression, it would have been in 12.04 :}
<knome> heh, yeah...
<mr_pouit> of course it will create regressions...
<knome> heh :)
<knome> in that case, don't
<baizon> mr_pouit: why arent you upgrading your ppa from pre2 to final? :P
<baizon> mr_pouit: ?
<ochosi> oh dear, ubiquity just decided to hang after i pressed the "skip" button (it was downloading stupid language-packs for _ages_ ...)
 * ochosi wonders what'll happen if i reboot now
<knome> baizon, because he has other things to work on?
<baizon> ok :)
<mr_pouit> i'm updating the debian packaging now for 4.10 final, then I'll restart my session to test, and then I'll backport that in my ppa
<mr_pouit> (insert random bits of real life things between each step)
 * knome inserts "step into a dog poo"
<baizon> mr_pouit: thanks for the info :)
<reon> mr_pouit, which is your PPA?
<baizon> reon: https://launchpad.net/~mrpouit/+archive/ppa
<reon> Thx, will bookmark it and check it every hour :D
<mr_pouit> knome: thanks :>
<knome> mr_pouit, np! ;) (you said random...)
<ochosi> grmpf, seems like (at least) my menu is borked
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> wondering whether i should just do another clean install
<knome> heh
<ochosi> i'm not really looking forward to fixing more random breakage
<knome> ochosi, another clean install which you bork by pressing "skip" ?
<ochosi> nope, one where i set up better/faster mirrors before installing...
<knome> ;)
<knome> what's wrong with the person on #xubuntu ?
<knome> is he totally drunk?
<pleia2> I was hoping for non-native speaker, but they're using a US ISP
<pleia2> so... ohio
<knome> :|
<ochosi> well who knows, there might be non-native speakers living in ohio as well...
<knome> can somebody try another approach?
<ochosi> knome: sry, you seem to have more energy for that then me (at least today)
<knome> meh :)
<knome> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> about albatross, i think it needs to be fixed "from scratch" (as in: like bluebird)
<knome> yeah, but if there is a workaround for now, let's use that until we fix it
<ochosi> and it was unfinished business anyway, so i'm not a big fan of applying a patch to something that i'll rewrite
<ochosi> have you tested the patch?
<knome> no, but can do later
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> i honestly haven't looked at it
<ochosi> can probably do that later this week
<ochosi> still have to set up a wiki-page for sean_d to work on the shortcuts-overlay
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> and i really don't like using the ubuntu-wiki for that, it's soo slow...
<ochosi> (still)
<ochosi> not sure i mentioned that already, but i think we should fork unity-greeter for 12.10
<knome> it's getting a bit better...
<knome> discuss with madnick, i'm ok with it if it looks good
 * pleia2 needs to set up a filter for xubuntu wiki alerts
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: note that you are both assignees for including 4.10; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal
<knome> pleia2, sorry! ;)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: if you think this is wrong... fight with each other or find other assignees ;))
<knome> pleia2, you still there?
<pleia2> at work, so "sort of"
<knome> heh, ok, a few quick Q's
<knome> what do you think of listing only the supported releases at the wiki front, and pointing to wiki/Releases for the rest?
<knome> also, do you think we can remove the "Get Involved!" -p from the wiki front, since it's mostly the same as in xubuntu.org? (everything except "you can join xubuntu-users on launchpad")
<pleia2> sounds good
<pleia2> maybe keep it and link to the website
<knome> we do that already, but it's duplicating
<pleia2> ah, we do link it, just delete the rest
<knome> maybe condense it a bit, then it'd be good ;)
<knome> hehe, sure
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> For information on how to contribute, see the Get Involved page of our website.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> see the "banner" at the top pointing to community help wiki?
<knome> what about adding another.
<knome> for the link, i mean
<pleia2> oh sure
<pleia2> that sounds good
<pleia2> did you see pretty new help.ubuntu.com/community/ ? :)
<pleia2> they haz new theme
<knome> ooh
<knome> nice
<knome> at least that's a bit better ;)
<knome> did you see the updated http://xubuntu.org/help/ ?
<pleia2> they applied it about a week ago to help.ubuntu proper, I think it was just today that they put it on /community
<knome> yeah, i think i've been hitting that site in a week and haven't seen that theme yet
<pleia2> I don't remember specifics of /help before (except there was an xchat menu screenshot)
<knome> yeah, i condensed it quite a lot
<pleia2> good
<knome> there was a huge paragraph on technical specifics of mailing lists...
<knome> about (un)subscription and all
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-01
<knome> pleia2, we should get some publicity for "brainstorming is on for q", maybe write a quickish article tomorrow and publish, tweet and send to g+
<knome> pleia2, and the mailing lists
<pleia2> sounds good
<pleia2> UDS people are already starting to descend upon us ;) running out to dinner with one of them now
<knome> hehe
<knome> have fun
 * knome goes to bed
<knome> btw, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu when you have a few mins
<knome> now that i reduced the releases table, i'm wondering where we need it at all
<knome> that should be on the website, because it's targeted mostly for userss
<knome> -s
<knome> anyway, time to think that tomorrow
 * knome is off, see you
<micahg> knome: in the blueprint for my assignment, please use [xubuntu-dev] (micahg)
<micahg> knome: otherwise, it shows up on the WI tracker for the security team which we don't want
<knome> mr_pouit, a-ha. didn't know that - thanks :)
<knome> err, micahg !
<knome> damn those nicks.
<mips1911> leave mr_pouit alone, I need him to finish the 4.10 stuff :)
<knome> that was exactly what i was bugging him about. for Q though
<mips1911> in that case keep bugging him :D
<knome> pleia2, you there?
<knome> brainstorm doesn't support ubuntu SSO?
 * knome blinks
<knome> generally, it's just quite ungraspable
<pleia2> knome: heh, I'm not sure how maintained it is in general
<knome> pleia2, there's a session of it on openweek
<pleia2> knome: oh, it's an active community and developers review it routinely for ideas, I meant the infrastructure itself
<knome> heh
<pleia2> it "just works" so it chugs along, hasn't had a branding update, I think it's still some old drupal
<knome> the xubuntu devs don't :]
<pleia2> well, it took a few UDS sessions for any devs to
<knome> mmh.
<Unit193> Says it uses this http://www.ideatorrent.org/
<knome> "Ideatorrent ... is based on Drupal."
<Unit193> Yep, so old+old=really old.
<knome> and since drupal sucks anyway... ;)
<knome> == really old crap
<Unit193> Yep, pretty much.
<GridCube> talking about the qa testing and stuff
<knome> yes?
<GridCube> i think the testing protocols should show the current known bugs, so people know what to test and look for
<GridCube> i think that many people goes blind to tests and miss stuff because we don't know what we should be looking at
<knome> mmh.
<knome> that's a good idea, but what are the "current known bugs" ?
<knome> are they bugs that have been found in the tests?
<knome> because those *are* already visible
<GridCube> yes they should be bugs reported on tests, say in the last 10 tests for a case
<GridCube> say you do alternate i386 tests, so you will see the "known issues with this testcase" and you might have like a checklist
<GridCube> saying does this happen to you? and you click yes or no
<GridCube> or click in like "something different happens" and you go to a bug report
<knome> mm-hmm
<GridCube> i think that would make testings more useful
<GridCube> now most tests are "see if it installs and runs" 
<GridCube> but no actual "testing" is done with the system
<knome> what about the testcase
<knome> we are about to update those
<knome> to be more xubuntu specific
<GridCube> i see
<knome> and include the short/long tests there
<GridCube> o: i forgot about my tutorial for alternate installation 
<knome> heh
<knome> :)
<knome> anyway
<knome> i'll be back later
<knome> i need to chat with stgraber
<knome> about the qa tracker
<GridCube> will try to do it one of this days
<knome> and i'm sure it would be useful if you could help me and astraljava getting the new testcases written/reviewed
<knome> but that would be in week 20 most probably
<knome> or weekend of week 19
<knome> (not saturday)
<GridCube> if i can i will help
<knome> i'm sure you can, you've been doing the tests, and you know if something is written badly or so
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<knome> but we'll get back to you once we sit down with it
<GridCube> what use does catfish have?
<knome> GridCube, search for files?
<GridCube> and do what with them?
<GridCube> see where they are?
<knome> yeah
<GridCube> and?
<knome> or generally, just find them
<knome> nothing else
<GridCube> thats not very useful
<knome> well, it depends so much how you organize your files
<knome> some people never think when they save, so it makes sense to have a search app
<GridCube> yes, i can agree with that 100% pero you need to do something with the files you find
<GridCube> lol s/pero/but/
<knome> well of course you can navigate to that location etc
<GridCube> knome, but say you want to find all the .abw you have on ~/ and save them on /media/pendrive 
<GridCube> theres no way of doing that with today's xubuntu unless you do some find -exec magic
<knome> GridCube, apparently you can copy single files from catfish
<knome> (not select all, but that's understandable in a away)
<knome> s/away/way/
<GridCube> :/
<mips1911> Any news on the 4.10 ppa?
<knome> no
<mips1911> :(
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-02
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> knome_: yet another item for 12.10: explore desktop-search (is there anything feasible we could theoretically use? catfish is sooo old and soo outdated..)
<astraljava> Make a small and cute GUI for mlocate? ;)
 * ochosi has never tried mlocate
<ochosi> hmm, looks nice!
<ochosi> oh, it's the same as locate..?
<mips1911> mrpouit, how's 4.10 coming along?
<astraljava> ochosi: I think locate nowadays points to mlocate. So in a sense, yes.
<mips1911> Does 12.04 i386 come with a pae or non-pae kernel. I need to install on my laptop that does not have pae support.
<mrpouit> mips1911: packages done and tested locally, I still need to upload them to the ppa
<mrpouit> xubuntu & lubuntu have a non-pae kernel
<mips1911> mrpouit, good news on the pae & 4.10 front. How long does the upload take more or less, I'll be your first tester :)
<mrpouit> the upload is quick, but then it needs time for the packages to build. Anyway, I'll upload when I'm back home (tonight in utc+2)
<mips1911> mrpouit, thanks much appreciated!
<ochosi> astraljava: what's the diff?
<astraljava> No diff, there are two symlinks only.
<astraljava>  /usr/bin/locate points to /etc/alternatives/locate, which in turn points to /usr/bin/mlocate
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> well catfish supports locate...
<ochosi> but still, the interface is not as great as it could be and would need a serious overhaul
<ochosi> (e.g. stuff like suggestions, different viewmodes of the results, customizable actions on the items and whatnot)
<astraljava> Yeah okay. Well, I was planning to take a lesson on porting GTK2 apps to GTK3, so let's see if I become an expert on it, I'll refresh catfish as well. :)
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i mean for now a gtk2 interface would be fine
<ochosi> but in general yeah, gtk3 is the future...
<astraljava> Are we still going to be supporting it for quantal?
<ochosi> supporting what?
<ochosi> gtk2?
<astraljava> Yeah.
<ochosi> sure, we'll have to for quite a while
<ochosi> xfce's port to gtk3 hasn't even started
<ochosi> and it's still uncertain when it'll happen (there are discussions currently whether it'll be the 4.12 target)
<astraljava> Oh yeah, of course. I had confused the two at some point (4.10 and GTK3 porting). Thanks for clearing that up.
<ochosi> sure np
<knome> hello people
<ochosi> ahoi
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Phases talks about precise specifically
<knome> i should look how i fixed that in the first-review of the SD
<ochosi> btw, i added two more items to the list and one spec
<knome> yes, i do get notifications about all (even trivial) changes in Xubuntu/* :P
<ochosi> i know, i just wanted to mention it ;)
<knome> yeah, i noticed
<ochosi> (especially since before i just dropped comments here instead of on the roadmap)
<knome> isn't catfish something more for the default app group?
<knome> or at least, tentatively
<ochosi> well, potentially, but it's probably more than just replacing one app with another
<ochosi> it could mean: write a different front-end (for mlocate), use a desktop-search service (beagle, etc.) or use another search-app
<knome> let me paste this somewhere...
<knome> i know, but blueprint-wise
<ochosi> right
<knome> fsst
<knome> http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?292a786e6c7d806c#+96MmOd4PrFJ2MX33z0rGRY+JJ9ynutj+Y3QVAgdaWs=
<knome> expires in 10 mins
<knome> please note that this is from the newly drafted strategy document
<ochosi> yeah, totally makes sense from my perspective
<ochosi> that's pretty much how we tried to do things during P
<knome> exactly
<ochosi> and i think it was far better and more transparent than anything we tried before
<knome> but compare that to the current /Pgases
<knome> *Phases
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Phases
<ochosi> yes, well the new one is more concise mostly, i don't see great differences there
<knome> yeah, and it also defines more clearly who approves
<knome> if you don't mind, i'll overwrite
<ochosi> yeah, just wanted to mention that
<ochosi> no, go ahead
<astraljava> knome: That looks really good. Especially the "kittens will die" portion.
<knome> good.
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Phases
<knome> updated
<knome> we should eventually just link to the SD section when the new SD is out
<ochosi> +1
<knome> ochosi, i was thinking "review and improve artwork/theming" blueprint
<knome> ochosi, easier to manage one big than several small
<ochosi> knome: as you like, i don't mind. feel free to merge them
<knome> we can do that when we create the blueprint
<knome> anyway, i need to run again
<knome> see you
<ochosi> yup, see you
<pleia2> ooh, screenshot overlay :)
<ochosi> pleia2: screenshot overlay?
<pleia2> err, shortcuts
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> would you be in favor of something like this?
<pleia2> yeah, I think it's a good idea
<ochosi> ok, just wanted to make sure a few people think it's a good idea before pursueing it
<ochosi> if you have input, feel free to edit the spec
<GridCube> i just turned on my printer and a configuring tool popped out :D
<GridCube> i didnt had any drivers for it so it went and searched ones on the interwebs for me
<GridCube> and found some with jockey :3
<knome> GridCube, yeah, i noticed the printer wizard worked wonders.
<GridCube> it recognizes the printer but not the scanner though :P
<knome> oh well
<GridCube> oh silly me, i downloaded the i386 deb from epson's page :P i was starting to freak out
<GridCube> luckly epson makes drivers for everything :3
<knome> brb/afk
<ochosi> knome: this looks like a nice greeter for lightdm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz09q6jREMY&feature=youtu.be
<ochosi> (although i don't get why suddenly the login-boxes aren't centered anymore, seems like that's how the kewl kids roll nowadays)
<drc> for the same reason window buttons were moved to the left
<ochosi> which is? "because that's how the kewl kids roll nowadays"?
<drc> yes
<drc> or
<ochosi> :)
<drc> just for a change
<ochosi> although: in all fairness, window-buttons were never in the center of the window :)
<GridCube> ochosi, thats your computer? i noticed how the terminal was all gray :P
<mips1911> I initially hated the windows buttons on the left but now I prefer it
<ochosi> GridCube: nope, not my greeter, not my computer :)
<ochosi> mips1911: why?
<GridCube> :P
<ochosi> (and i mean, apart from getting used to it)
<mips1911> I find my mouse pointer is generally closer to the top right of windows than the left. I feel I have to move my mouse to much to get to the top left
<drc> ???
<mips1911> most window menus are located in the top right, thus the mouse pointer frequents that location more often.
 * drc looks at his hands to make sure he knows his right from his left.
<mips1911> lol, I mixed up the left & right there, should be "I find my mouse pointer is generally closer to the top left of windows than the right"
<drc> ah...whew!
<drc> are you left handed?
<mips1911> drc, don't worry your hands are still in the right place :)
<mips1911> no, but I'm goofy footed and also swap, my knife & fork around
<drc> and surf?
<mips1911> yes, and use to skate in my younger years when my bones still had some flex in them :D
<drc> getting old is a PITA, isn't it :(
<mips1911> sucks big time
<knome> i'm off for now. back on friday
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-03
<cem____> anybody can help
<micahg> \o/ gimp 2.8.0 released (waiting for it to trickle into Debian)
<ochosi> micahg: yay!
<mips1911> Anyone know what the cause of the bug is that causes your title bars and window borders to disappear?
<ochosi> mips1911: i guess otherwise it'd be fixed
<ochosi> mips1911: does it happen in 12.04 as well?
<mips1911> ochosi, no idea, I only had it happen to me once or twice in 11.10, currently only have xubuntu base install + openbox installed, waiting for 4.10 ppa
<ochosi> mips1911: so you mean the bug happens with openbox?
<mips1911> ochosi, weren't the devs gonna add some code to autostart it once it crashed, recall somehting like that
<ochosi> that should happen anyway (session manager takes care of that)
<mips1911> oh ok
<pleia2> added to reviews http://linuxblog.darkduck.com/2012/05/xubuntu-1204-dont-fix-what-is-not.html
<Unit193> Broken.
<pleia2> ?
<Unit193> dont-fix-what-is-not.html, I had to finish it. :/
<pleia2> oh :)
<mips1911> Merci beaucoup monsieur pouit ;)
<mips1911> I see the PPA is live
<mips1911> mr_pouit, getting unmet dependencies for the ppa, http://paste.ubuntu.com/965704/
<mips1911> mr_pouit, never mind I see things are still in waiting to build status, will check back in the morning
<ochosi> was just about to say that...
<mips1911> I got all excited and never checked the status and just went ahead with the install. Hopefully when I wake up in the morning I will have a present waiting for me.
<ochosi> not unlikely, mostly depends on what else the buildservers have on their plate
<mips1911> g'night, 00:30 here sso i'm off to bed
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-04
<mips1911> mr_pouit, looks like xfwm4 failed to build
<mr_pouit> mips1911: amd64 packages are expected to fail to build (unmet dependencies), as some base libs (libxfce4ui, exo, garcon, xfconf) haven't been built yet
<mr_pouit> and according to lp the builds will start in ~13 hours, so I can't retry the builds of other components until then
<mr_pouit> I almost never use ppas, and each time I use them i've to wait nearly two days to get everything built... that's funny
<drc> That's life in the fast (as in impatient) lane :)
<mips1911> mr_pouit, thanks for the explanation.
<mips1911> I'll just soldier on with open for now, it's treating me well :)
<mips1911> open=openbox
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-05
 * GridCube proposes that xubuntu 12.10 should ship arandr
<mips1911> Why does xubuntu use gnomevfs, why not gvfs?
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/?p=1077&preview=true
<pleia2> knome: can we get a date for the week of 19 without having to look at the release schedule? :)
<pleia2> or is that week 19 of the year?
<knome> yes
<knome> week 19 of the year
<pleia2> I still don't know what that date is
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> so dates would be good for my brain
<knome> 13
<knome> edited
<knome> oops
<pleia2> and for 20th too :)
<pleia2> (see what I did there, 20th is the 20th!)
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> otherwise this is good :)
<knome> good good
<knome> have you had a chance to check out the other drafed article?
<knome> +t
<pleia2> I would also like to blog about Xubuntu stickers, I can send them to people and give them out at UDS, my blog or Xubuntu blog?
<pleia2> no, I will look now
<knome> i think the xubuntu blog would be appropriate
<pleia2> oh yes, FAQ
<knome> just make sure it's in the "Articles" category :)
<pleia2> we need a FAQ about that white on white theme thing
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-artwork-update-unity-support/ <- feel free to add a paragraph like that (in the end) if you like
<pleia2> "this theme isn't updated yet"
<knome> mmh, albatross, yeah
<pleia2> people ask that like 10x/day
<pleia2> these are great
<knome> updated faq
<knome> i think it's ready for publishing now, can you quickly proof-read the last Q
<knome> (#9, just added)
<GridCube> oh, you are nto using the pad thingy
<knome> no, not now
<knome> GridCube, you should be able to access http://xubuntu.org/?p=1033&preview=true
<pleia2> knome: I'd s/If you need/For
<GridCube> "page not found"
<knome> pleia2, done
<knome> GridCube, try logging in first.
<GridCube> where?
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/
<knome> with ubuntu SSO
<knome> (just push the button)
<pleia2> knome: do we want to add one about DNSMasq?
<knome> : How do I install additional (propietary) drivers in Xubuntu? -> jockey
<knome> : How can I get the terminal back to black background?(?) -> provide a .terminalrc file / link to page that does
<knome> : How do I install Xfce 4.10? -> it's not supported, but there is a PPA
<knome> ^ other ideas too
<knome> i don't think the dsnmasq is something for "faq" though :)
<knome> somebody knows gigolo?
<knome> we could quickly describe #1
<knome> i don't, and i can't test with windows shares
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-1204-top10faq
<GridCube> page not found
<knome> huh?
<knome> GridCube, you were able to log in?
<GridCube> it stills doesnt show anything
<GridCube> yes
<knome> hard refresh?
<GridCube> yep
<knome> if not else, http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1033&action=edit
<GridCube> ctrl-shift-r
<GridCube> You are not allowed to edit this item.
<knome> aha..
<knome> then you don't have the access rights :P
<knome> you should though
<knome> try again?
<GridCube> nope
<knome> hmh.
<GridCube> i now have a menu bar at the top of the page, i didnt had that before
<knome> bleh, we probably should give some more privileges to contributors
<knome> or create our own role, and give a set of different privileges alltogether
<GridCube> :/
<knome> probably allow read*
<GridCube> i don't know
<knome> and disallow delete*
<knome> don't know what?
<GridCube> what you are talking about :P if you should or should not give privileges
<knome> heh, fortunately i do
<knome> the idea was not to disallow the team from seeing anything that is under works
<GridCube> in the "dashboard" theres a lot of titles, but i cant open any of those
<knome> i just didn't want *everybody* to have admin rights
<GridCube> thats smart
<knome> the author/editor roles weren't something i was comfortable with either
<knome> publish_posts and espeically delete_published_posts is scary
<knome> use your common sense to think what those mean ;)
<GridCube> i guess they make the site faster?
<GridCube> :P
<knome> in a way... yes
<pleia2> used a FAQ \o/
<GridCube> :D
<pleia2> let's publish this dude
<knome> heh
 * GridCube :D
<knome> published
<pleia2> yay :)
<GridCube> :P
 * knome is off for now
<knome> see you
<pleia2> hm, silly cache, it's not showing up in our faq section
<GridCube> nope
 * pleia2 waits
 * pleia2 handles the twitters
<GridCube> i like how our top10 has 9 questions :3
<GridCube> :P
<pleia2> we don't mention 10 anywhere :)
<GridCube> :P i noticed
<mips1911> I see the 4.10 builds are almost done
<Unit193> But, they are the unsupported ones as there is no 4.10 in Pangolin.
<mips1911> Yeah aware of that but not concerned. 1 more package to go
<mips1911> Done
<knome> pleia2, so, do you think we should publish the other article too?
 * Unit193 can't even look at it, but knows the title.
<knome> heh :)
<knome> yeah, we should get those permissions right
 * knome should quickly test them somewhere not-production first
<Unit193> "WordPress 3.3.2 is available! Please notify the site administrator." I'm not going to notify the admin, too hard...
<Unit193> I can assist, no?
<knome> i'm not sure how we should proceed with those..
<knome> i'd need to ask the IS
<knome> i thought the policy is that they will update it
<knome> but i'll get to them later...
<knome> pleia2, you still around?
<Unit193> Assist being with the testing, I just did as the weird banner said to. ;)
<knome> heh
<mips1911> hmm, 4.10 install not going so well. can't install libthunarx-2-0 as it depends on a older version of thunar-data
<knome> Unit193, ah, no, not really necessary :)
<Unit193> Alright, I'll just sit back and -laugh- watch.
<knome> ;)
<knome> heh
<pleia2> IS just deals with it
<knome> mmh
<knome> they should just deal with it quicker then ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> It's IS, what do you expect?
<pleia2> I'm glad the support wordpress at all :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> would be idiotic to just support drupal
<knome> :P
<pleia2> limited resources, all the early projects wanted drupal and wordpress' maturity was questionable
<pleia2> this is back when it also took 8-12 months to get a response to an RT ticket... if you nagged them (or 2 years otherwise)
<knome> >__<
<knome> stupid policy to force drupal too, imo
<pleia2> most of us just hosted our stuff offsite
<knome> i understand the security policies, but maybe some more permissions for community would be good too
<pleia2> for ubuntu women we just had a flat text html site
<knome> yeah.
<knome> anyway, i'm off
<knome> see you tomorrow :)
<pleia2> I'm in UDS-mode for the next week, so I'll be in and out
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-06
<mips1911> any news on the 4.10 amd64 builds?
<mr_pouit> mips1911: only xfdesktop4 remains (supposed to build in ~1h)
<mips1911> mr_pouit: Yeah I saw there's a dependency issue with libthunarx-2-0 wanting thunar-data 1.3.2.1 but 1.4.0 is to installed
<mips1911> mr_pouit: I see the build is complete, will install as soon apt update is complete
<mips1911> mr_pouit: Still not working, xfdesktop4 : Depends: xfdesktop4-data (= 4.9.3-1~ppa1) but 4.10.0-0ubuntu1~ppa2 is to be installed
<mr_pouit> there's always a small delay between "built" and "published"
<mips1911> ok thx, will wait a bit and try again
<mips1911> mr_pouit: Working fine now, thx!
<ochosi> knome: ahoi
<knome> hey
<ochosi> sean davis sent me some screenshots of the keyboard-shortcuts overlay that he is / we are working on
<ochosi> wanna see?
<knome> sure
<ochosi> there are three versions atm, we'll continue to work on the layout more
<ochosi> 1: http://imagebin.org/211289
<ochosi> (obviously the "switching" ones are still wrong atm)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> 2: http://imagebin.org/211290
<ochosi> or without lines: http://imagebin.org/211291
<knome> i prefer 1
<ochosi> i'm not 100% content with the radius of the corners
<ochosi> and the padding
<ochosi> but in general i think we're getting somewhere
<knome> maybe
<knome> brb
<knome> ahh
<knome> clean nose++
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether throwing app-icons to the app-shortcuts is too much
<ochosi> i mean it'll definitely look less clean
<knome> mmh
<knome> well, my thoughts
<knome> try to condense the descriptions
<knome> "Open the Web Browser" -> "Web browser"
<ochosi> i haven't really been able to look at the code yet, so i don't know where these come from
<knome> maybe the horizontal rules could be a bit thinner
<knome> at least the ones splitting different categories
<knome> ochosi, fun, telling people how to build packages when they don't have an idea what "reading readme" means
<ochosi> yeah, what a dork :(
<knome> heh, that's another way to say it ;)
<ochosi> re:kb-shortcuts-overlay: yeah, this is a first preview sean sent me without me even drawing a mockup, i think he took most of the look and descriptions from unity
<knome> yeah, looks like it
<ochosi> i'm happy he produced working code ;)
<knome> i think generally the text could be smaller
<ochosi> and it kinda looks along the lines i want it to look
<knome> yeah, it's definitely not bad
<knome> yay!
<knome> question "i need help with .tar.gz"
<ochosi> i'm still wondering whether we should go for a different style
<ochosi> i mean in terms of applications
<knome> thinks problem is "can't build a package"
<ochosi> and include edit-buttons
<knome> problem is "can't read, don't know how to cd to a dir"
<ochosi> so one can also quickly change shortcuts there
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> or at least make the headers clickable, so you'd get to the right dialog for changing the shortcut-keys (so that things would be less duplicated)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> since he's using xfce4-notifyd as basis adding buttons should work
<knome> btw, did you look at the roadmap-related post draft at xubuntu.org? 
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> wasn't aware there was one
<knome> there definitely is
<ochosi> well, i mean i don't monitor xubuntu.org for new drafts and i don't get notifications for that :p
<knome> hehe
<knome> i don't think anybody does :P
<knome> there was some discussion about it at this channel though, so i thought you might have noticed
<ochosi> oh right, no i didn't read the backlog yesterday
<ochosi> usually i do though
<ochosi> yeah, that sounds good
<ochosi> i mean the post is still a bit technical and dry
<knome> feel free to try to liven it up
<ochosi> maybe throw in some fancy icons or something, so that it's not _just text_ on the planet
<knome> maybe some kind of simple infographic
<ochosi> and then we'll see
<knome> hehe, yeah...
<knome> i should compose a plugin for xubuntu.org
<knome> to handle the access rights
<knome> create a new user role and grant that to xubuntu-team
<ochosi> other than that i think it's great to push something like this on the planet
<knome> we should also post it on the mailing lists etc
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> at least no-one will be able to complain about our processes not being transparent enough this time around
<knome> heh, i'm sure someone will do anyway
<ochosi> possible, but at least we're trying hard
<knome> or complain that his item with no assignee didn't get approved/implemented
<knome> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/compfight/
<knome> OOG
<knome> *OOH
<knome> got to love that
<ochosi> yeah, sounds great
<ochosi> can we install plugins without IS?
<knome> of course not.
<ochosi> so it'll take ages until we get that? :)
<knome> hehe, yeah...
<knome> not that we need that now
<knome> but would be a welcome addition at some point
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether replacing the social-media text-links with icons or badges would be a good idea
<ochosi> they're just a lot more easily recognizable that way
<knome> maybe
<ochosi> i can quickly put 16px versions of those two together if you wanna test it
<knome> sure
<ochosi> knome: file:///usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/social/16/twitter.svg
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> for g+ i'll quickly dig
<ochosi> this one looks ok: http://www.thecardiologydaily.com/images/google_plus.png
<ochosi> i can draw those myself as well, but for testing these two should suffice
<knome> will test a bit later
<ochosi> k, feel free to ping me when you do
<knome> will do
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/roadmap-infographic.png
<ochosi> knome: great! i like it a lot
<knome> good
<knome> is it clear enough?
<ochosi> we should probably also put that somewhere on the roadmap page
<knome> heh, maybe
<knome> though the roadmap phases are going to be described in the SD
<knome> don't want infographics *there* but...
<knome> most of this happens in a week anyway
<knome> i mean, in a few weeks, we are at the "roadmap" stage
<ochosi> yup true
<ochosi> i think it's pretty clear, but it'd be better to ask someone who wasn't involved in creating the process ;)
<ochosi> e.g. in #xubuntu
<knome> updated the infographic
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> wondering whether s/Roadmap brainstorming/Add to Roadmap brainstorming/ ?
<ochosi> so that it's clearer that people have to submit their ideas
<ochosi> but maybe that's clear anyway
<knome> or add "submitting" next to the first arrow
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> better maybe
<knome> hmm... /me goes with something like that
<knome> resolves visual issue with "approved" too
<knome> updated
<ochosi> good
<knome> updated once more :)
<ochosi> yup, better again
<knome> i think that's about it
<knome> and one more time, adding title
<ochosi> yup, looks ready now
<knome> now to upload and add that to the post
<ochosi> btw, audience is pretty nice already
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?p=1077&preview=true
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/58105305@N00/2768941171/ <- :P
<knome> should we use that pic too
<ochosi> hehe, definitely ;)
<knome> if the light buld was lit up, that would be perfect
<knome> *bulb
<ochosi> maybe <strong>submit your ideas</strong> in the first paragraph
<knome> refresh
<ochosi> yes, that's better
<ochosi> also makes the text more structured
 * knome is taking a shower
<knome> i'll publish that when i get back, unless you have further ideas how to improve
 * knome releases the edit-lock too
<knome> brb
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/roadmap-article.png
<knome> comments?
<pleia2> http://gnuman.com/xubuntu-12-04-lts-review/
 * pleia2 adding
<pleia2> knome: that's great!
<lekin> Hi all !
<lekin> I installed Xubuntu 12.04 amd64 and configured it over the past 2 days. I actually wanted to use it tomorrow. Unfortunately there are too many serious bugs, e.g. in Thunar and Leafpad.
<baizon> and the bugs are?
<baizon> you can switch from leafpad to gedit for example
<lekin> Thunar bypasses the Trash on a bind mount.
<baizon> lekin: try pcmanfm
<lekin> Leafpad can't handle a 880 KB file.
<GridCube> lekin, you can use geany for editing
<lekin> Better skip the standard applications?
<GridCube> they are not power tools
<GridCube> we had a discussion for this a while back, we decided that apt-get is just a few strokes away from any user needed more advanced tools, we should ship the ones that do standard work for users in a simple way
<lekin> I like the desktop environment, it's clear and fast. But I also need reliable basic tools like an editor and a graphical file manager...
<GridCube> :) you can have all you want
<lekin> I used 10.04 with Gnome 2 before (and still do). I am not willing to use the Unity desktop environment nor Gnome 3.
<lekin> Is Xfce reliable enough to use it with the former Gnome standard tools?
<GridCube> it should be
<lekin> I think most people use Xubuntu because of it's traditional desktop environment, not because of a lack of RAM and CPU power. What do you think?
<GridCube> :) the same
<GridCube> lekin, care to go to #xubuntu-offtopic 
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> this channel if for development
<lekin> OK. Sorry. Are you interested in further details of the Thunar + Leafpad bugs?
<GridCube> yes, ofcourse :)
<GridCube> care to report them to launchpad?
<lekin> OK. URI available?
<GridCube> from a terminal write: ubuntubug leafpad
<GridCube> and ubuntu bug thunar
<GridCube> and it will compile information for you and send the report to launchpad
<GridCube> you will need to log in to launchpad for the report to complete, so its a standard user registration, the register go to your mail to end registration and such, if you dont have an account already
<lekin> Ah, ubuntu-bug !
<GridCube> oh... yeah... sorry 'bout that
<knome> hrm
<GridCube> hmmhm?
<knome> hullo
<knome> 2:30am o.o
<GridCube> just 20:35 here
<knome> yeah
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/brainstorming-the-12-10-release/
<GridCube> i forgot what lists i had to make to the brainstorming
<GridCube> oooo
<GridCube> i remember, webcams default programs
<GridCube> and arandr
<knome> filed a new ticket for IS to pull a new plugin
<knome> with that, we'll be able to give the team a bit more access rights :)
<GridCube> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-29
<micahg> skellat: added my comments to the blueprint inline since I won't be at the vUDS
 * skellat notes that Xfce 4.12 is going the Debian route now of approaching release when ready: http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap
<micahg> nah, at least Debian has an RC bug count :)
<Noskcaj> knome, ali says you "blocked" him from the team? did something happen in my absence?
<knome> Noskcaj, you can read the emails in the mailing list
<Noskcaj> i didn't see them.
<knome> Noskcaj, apart from that, i might have deapproved his membership from xubuntu-team, but that's described in my mail as well the strategy document
<knome> Noskcaj, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-April/008857.html and follow-ups
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll have a look
<knome> if he thinks he's mistreated, please tell him to join this channel and discuss it himself
<Noskcaj> i had been talking to him on FB, i just wanted to know the other side of the story
<bluesabre> hey folks :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> whats up?
<bluesabre> knome, I agree with your lubuntu follow-ups :)
<Unit193> Not a ton, mower done be borked. :(
<knome> heya bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> nice, got some scissors?
<bluesabre> hows it going, knome?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have an older push mower type, but that won't do for first of the year.
<knome> bluesabre, fine, running the XPL election errands
<bluesabre> Unit193, one of the few perks of living in an apartment :)
<lderan> Unit193, hire a goat?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Indeed!
<Unit193> lderan: Cousins are too far away! ;P
<bluesabre> knome, creating a countdown banner?
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, lol no, just creating the LP poll
<bluesabre> good thing there's only two nominees then
<knome> how so? :P
<bluesabre> less work for you, and for us when we have to think about who to vote for
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> I'd vote for ubottu if he/she/it was running
<knome> me too
<lderan> so charismatic
<knome> good at paperwork.
<Unit193> bluesabre: But not me?  I'm so hurt!
<knome> i could vote for Unit193 at the april 2014 election
<bluesabre> Unit193, you have mower problems, we don't need xpl problems :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ahhh!  Understandable.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-30
<knome> !doublejoin | GridCube 
<ubottu> GridCube: Your IRC client is completing NickServ authentication after joining channels, which triggers a fake quit and rejoin to apply your cloak and increases channel noise. Please see https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nocloakonjoin and use SASL or another method to prevent this.
<knome> \o/
<GridCube> lol
<GridCube> i dont understand what that means
<Unit193> knome: See in -ops that that factoid wasn't so liked? :P
<knome> Unit193, no, i didn't see that comment... what's wrong with it?
<GridCube> did it work now?
<knome> yes
<GridCube> :)
<knome> much cleaner, and we don't see your ip right away
<GridCube> :) thanks
<knome> np
<lderan> woo
<Unit193> knome: 1. Wanted SASL, and 2. Thought it was nitpicky, IIRC.
<Unit193> knome: Can we nmap the old one?
<GridCube> i used the xchat script
<knome> Unit193, well there's SASL now? :P
<Unit193> (Was updated, of course.)
<knome> nitpicky... yeah, but it's 3 lines or 1 line
<knome> and while you can find out the ip anyway, it's some additional security
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-01
<knome> anybody in the xubuntu-team in LP, please approve new members to xubuntu-users, unless it looks like a flood
<knome> i will revert the team as open once the voting has been donw
<knome> *done
 * smartboyhw waits for voting open:)
<knome> should be open in approx. 110 mins
<knome> i know LP says 1 hour... but i set it to 15UTC.
<knome> unless it wanted GMT. in which case it will shift back one hour.
<knome> hmm, no
<knome> no, yes
 * knome hates DST
<knome> timezones are doable, but DST is confusing and useless
<smartboyhw> knome: I do know when to vote (I read the mail). BTW did Noskcaj ask you for membership testimonials?
<smartboyhw> knome: BTW can one change his vote after initial voting? (Not saying I would)
<skellat> Still an hour until the poll opens
<smartboyhw> skellat: 48 minutes
<skellat> LP rounds up then
<smartboyhw> skellat: Refresh mab
<smartboyhw> *man
<smartboyhw> Should be 46 â¦
<knome> smartboyhw_, no, didn't ask for testimonials from me
<knome> smartboyhw_, i don't know if you can change your vote. skellat?
<smartboyhw_> knome: Eh? He's running for membership tmr 22:00 (7 hrs after meeting)
<skellat> knome: Yep, as long as you save the vote change key
<knome> smartboyhw_, right, no.
<knome> smartboyhw_, he didn't
<smartboyhw_> knome: Hmm interesting
<smartboyhw_> skellat: OK
<knome> everybody still free to leave support to each of the candidates for the XPL run as well
<knome> (i suppose after 40 mins it might not make as much sense)
<smartboyhw_> knome: I did for you:)
<knome> smartboyhw_, i noticed. thanks!
<knome> the best thing in these elections are the supporting words, whether you got nominated or not
<smartboyhw_> knome: Heh you have supporters from many flavours:)
<knome> i suppose one of the benefits of trying to help other people whenever you can
<smartboyhw_> knome: :)
<smartboyhw_> 25 mins\o/
<smartboyhw_> 2 minutes to voting time! Woohii
<skellat> There's no running tally of where votes have gone, though.  LP only gives totals once the poll closes.
<smartboyhw_> skellat: No worries, the meeting will reveal it;P
<smartboyhw_> Voted already
<lderan> woo voting
<knome> skellat, i'm curious why there should be? :)
<skellat> I was just thinking of the US Senate and US House of Representatives that have running tallies during votes and where votes can be changed up until the vote is closed.
<knome> finnish elections do not have those
<knome> prelimiary/counted votes are only published when the voting has ended
<skellat> Nah, these are votes internal to those bodies
<knome> ah.
<knome> oh well, we can always do better next time :)
<skellat> Elections I help administer don't have any results known until after the poll is closed and all four poll judges sign the tabulator tape & post it
<skellat> Which I still haven't gotten a deployment order for the May 7th Party Primaries/Special Elections contest yet
<knome> mmh
<skellat> I'm just a substitute
<skellat> Last November's election I got called the night before and was ordered to a precinct to serve
<skellat> Theoretically I can get an order up until polls close on the 7th
<knome> yup
<knome> disturbing.
<skellat> Well, sometimes precinct election officers do get sick during election day and have to be replaced.  
<knome> sure
<elfy> afternoon
<knome> hello elfy
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> so... the voting is underway!
<elfy> yep - done my duty for the day - tomorrow I'm supposed to do it all again 
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> done my duties for today as well.. which are none!
<elfy> when's the daily going to be available by the way?
<knome> woohoo
<knome> good question
<knome> don't think it makes much sense to test anything yet
<lderan> wish my days duties were equal to none :P
<skellat> Nothing to test yet.  There's still debate about alignment of milestones.
<elfy> well I tested setting-manager and did the bug report :p
<knome> another benefit of being an entrepreneur - sometimes you have days like this
<knome> elfy, there is something to test and triage if you are willing to to Q->R upgrades though... bug 1155167
<ubottu> bug 1155167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from image prompts creating a new user" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155167
<elfy> lot's of people wanting to join xubuntu-team ... we should have a poll of some sort twice a year :p
<knome> why poll?
<elfy> looking
<knome> oh, you mean xubuntu-USERS, not -team
<knome> heh.
<elfy> yea - sorry - long day lol
<knome> we haven't marketed the group too much
<knome> i don't know if there are any direct benefits of it
<elfy> I should be able to check that bug out over the next couple of days 
<knome> elfy, thanks!
<elfy> indeed - I found when I've done 'teams' that you get an initial upswing in interest - then it drops of rapidly - I've always been happy if I've managed to keep 20% of the original interest 
<knome> mhm
<knome> easier to get people to join open teams with badges...
<elfy> I'll not comment on that ... 
<knome> hehe
 * knome checks elfy's badges
<lderan> especially if the badges are shiny 
<elfy> the only badge I've got for badges sake is the not canonical one :)
<lderan> woo just voted :P
<knome> i don't think i'm mistaken a lot for working for canonical :P
<elfy> I get it lot's 
<knome> gah, pleia2 has lots of badges
<knome> but i can haz more karma!
<elfy> lol
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw
<elfy> I just had a cnd badge when I was his age :p
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~pitti wins in karma
<lderan> all bow to my measly 1 karma
<lderan> muhahaha
<knome> that's a start!
<elfy> knome: how much karma does the LP bot thing have :)
<knome> and btw, people would get easy karma for keeping the release blueprints up-to-date, but they don't do it so i have to
<knome> most of my karma comes from spec management anyway...
<knome> elfy, no idea
<elfy> mine comes mostlt from creating bugs that never get looked at :D
<knome> hah
<knome> the karma system is far from perfect
<elfy> most karma systems are 
<elfy> like thanks/likes pretty much pointless 
<knome> heh
<elfy> but it's what we have so meh 
<knome> yeah
<elfy> lderan: when you fix that bug you'll have more than 1 :)
<lderan> woo \o/
<elfy> I'd assume ... 
<elfy> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> :) hi elfy 
<skellat> And for my first merge request of the Saucy Salamander cycle: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/161865
<elfy> what's going on with docs this cycle - so I know 
<skellat> Don't know yet
<skellat> First merge is to bump it into this cycle
<skellat> bkerensa is supposed to have a vUDS-1305 session about revitalizing Docs at the macro Ubuntu-wide level
<skellat> Beyond that, we can add notes to our blueprint
<elfy> tbh - I don't know what happened last cycle either lol - I had a part in the big upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04
<elfy> skellat: well - while that is a great idea and I hope it works - I'd not base what we do with our docs on a revitalised doc team
<skellat> :-)
<elfy> I'm serious :) 
<skellat> We have a workaround to that in place too after we had to scramble to do some updates to get 13.04-versioned docs into 13.04
<skellat> The first few releases had 12.10 docs still
<skellat> knome has commiter/upload rights now so we need not worry
<elfy> basically I guess I needed to know if it was being done like ^^ through LP etc - in which case I can forget that :p
<knome> \o/
<skellat> Yeah, it is the magic of LP
<skellat> Which can be worked around
<elfy> skellat: k - thanks
<Unit193> knome: Can you pop the meeting on to the Xubuntu calendar?
<knome> Unit193, sure, i'll do that later
<seronis> is there any place to go to influence getting an updated version of a 3rd party lib added to the xubuntu repos ?
<bluesabre> Hi seronis, just follow the sponsorship process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<seronis> ty for the link bluesabre 
<bluesabre> sure thing
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-02
<Unit193> seronis: Is it in Debian by chance?
<seronis> Unit193, i dont know how to check random repos that arent already in the package managers settingbs
<seronis> but its probably a non-issue.  I only reinstalled from win7 to xubuntu today and noticed the new version but i guess its REALLY new and isnt likely to be anywhere
<seronis> im installing from source
<skellat> And the release schedule for milestones is up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<Unit193> Reminder about a meeting the 2nd of May! - http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130502T15
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Does the meeting time ever change? it has to be after 2000 UTC for me to attend
<Unit193> Recently it's been this.
<Unit193> I'll be reading scrollback of the meeting. :)
<lderan> i'll be "working" during the meeting :P
<Noskcaj> can some more people add testimonials to wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj ?
<Noskcaj> elfy, ^
<Noskcaj> i'm going for membership tomorrow
<bluesabre> I should try to do that soon
<bluesabre> *again
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: You failed?
<bluesabre> yeah, not enough sustained contribution last time
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: :(
<smartboyhw> You should have now
<bluesabre> I would hope so
<bluesabre> :D
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: :D
<elfy> I know it was possibly 3 years or so before I went for it 
<smartboyhw> elfy: Heh some people never ran:)
<smartboyhw> So, who of you people will attend the meeting today? :P (just asking)
<knome> being a pit nitpicky, but we should s/XFCE/Xfce/ at http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/derivatives
<GridCube> whats the ETA for the meeting?
<smartboyhw_> GridCube: 1:28 hours later
<GridCube> ok :)
<smartboyhw> Meeting in 30 minutes!
 * smartboyhw is willing to see the results
<smartboyhw> skellat, knome: How will the results be announced?
<skellat> smartboyhw: Once the poll closes, the LP page for the poll will give the result
<skellat> And I presume we'll discuss it in the meeting
<skellat> smartboyhw: This is what a results page would look like, for example: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio/+poll/active--2013-04-12
<elfy> skellat: afaik that's what the meeting is for 
<skellat> 4 minutes or so until meeting time
<smartboyhw> Yep
 * smartboyhw will refresh the page once his phone reaches 23:00
<smartboyhw> A.K.A. 15:00 UTC
<smartboyhw> Congrats knome!!!!!
<smartboyhw> The results are out now;)
<elfy> you just don't stop do you 
<maddernick> yes, gz knome 
<smartboyhw> lol
<smartboyhw> elfy: Stop what?
 * maddernick looks around
<micahg-work> hrm, 3% vote turnout
<GridCube> :) 
<smartboyhw> :)
<lderan> :P
<genii-around> 3% is probably 2% more than most elections...
<micahg-work> personally, I think xubuntu-team should've been the electing body (- ubuntu-core-dev)
 * skellat notes that what Howard Chan was referring to can be seen here: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/+poll/xubuntu-xpl-2013/
<maddernick> agreed
<smartboyhw> I might be the only non ~xubuntu-team voter :P
<elfy> shouldn't have been able to then 
<smartboyhw> No worries, I have KC election to be headache aboyt.
<skellat> As long as you were ~xubuntu--users you could vote.
<smartboyhw> *about
<micahg-work> elfy, you're in xubuntu-team
<elfy> I know :)
<micahg-work> oh, you were referring to smartboyhw 
<elfy> yea lol 
<smartboyhw> micahg-work: LOL
<elfy> but heyho 
<skellat> Where is knome?
<smartboyhw> â¦
<drc> took the treasury and left?
<smartboyhw> ROFL
<skellat> drc: Mothballs are currency now?
<drc> In Motheria, yes
<smartboyhw> skellat: Everything can be a currency (like in ancient times) :P
<elfy> debt seems the be the current global currency 
 * smartboyhw +1s elfy
<drc> He's probably taking the concession phone call form Noskcaj
<smartboyhw> lol
<smartboyhw> drc: Noskcaj is presumably asleep
<smartboyhw> It's early 1-3 AM there
<GridCube> so... meeting?
<drc> Without Our Dearest Leader?
<smartboyhw> GridCube: knome needs to be here......
<micahg-work> nah, but I'm in no position to run a meeting
<maddernick> might be useful to announce winner in meeting logs
<maddernick> start -> winner -> end
<elfy> need to "community meetings will start after that once the elected project lead sets a schedule." as well 
<GridCube> yep well
 * skellat has to head out to The Farm so he's going to have to miss the meeting now
<GridCube> :/ 
<smartboyhw> Eh
<knome> o
<knome> well, i'm sorry i wasn't available earlier, i was talking about xubuntu in a linux event
<knome> got to know about the results during a Q&A -session about (x)ubuntu, is there a better way to find out? :P
<drc> That's all right, we met anyway and voted you Dear Leader For Life...all the work now belongs to you :)
<knome> micahg-work, i couldn't agree more (re: xubuntu-team as the electing body)
<knome> heh, thanks thanks
<knome> gosh i'm tired and wet.
<knome> it wasn't too cool at times at the event
<elfy> wb boss
<knome> heh, ta ta
<lderan> woo for knome
 * knome bows
<elfy> knome: so - scheduling team meets :)
<knome> elfy, yes... i will probably look at that tomorrow
<knome> and then take a week off FOSS
<elfy> :)
<lderan> :)
<seronis> new here and dont even know what you got elected leader OF.. but anyone whose first job as leader is to declare a vacation cant be all bad in my book
<knome> seronis, xubuntu project lead, eg. the dictator of all xubuntu issues :P
<knome> beginning of the cycle is the best spot to have time off though
<lderan> makes sense
<seronis> jokes aside I completely agree.  yesterday I had asked who to talk to or where to go to suggest getting either a new package added to the repos, or an updated version of a package.  i was referred to the sponsorship page but reading over that looks like its referring to submitting patches, not suggesting software
<knome> seronis, i'd imagine the same process applies to new software as well
<micahg-work> seronis, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<seronis> micahg-work,  thank you
<Noskcaj> Is anyone online able to add a testimonial to wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj ? my membership meeting is soon
<elfy> Noskcaj: I've not known you long enough to do it - nothing personal, but I don't just add my name 
<Noskcaj> elfy, ok. 
<Noskcaj> skellat, thanks for the membership testimonial, i hadn't realized you had wrote one
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-03
<bluesabre> knome, what are some things (documented or not) that we want to see in the saucy cycle?
<bluesabre> catfish is more or less in maintenance mode now, I can't add more features until python-gobject gets more API calls
<bluesabre> I'll be working on getting menulibre to be a full-fledged replacement for alacarte
<bluesabre> and parole will continue to get updates
<bluesabre> are we still interested in something like this?  https://launchpad.net/xfce4-keyboard-overlay
<ochosi> bluesabre: i am
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> question is whether we should try to upstream that to xfce
<ochosi> make it an extension of either notifyd or settingsd
<ochosi> (probably best to talk to e.g. jeromeg)
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> I'm going to try to redo it in vala again
<bluesabre> or maybe just C
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that'd be best
<bluesabre> the color feels a little old-greybird now: http://imagebin.org/256272
<lderan> ooo that would be cool
<bluesabre> ochosi, do you remember where the wiki page is/was for this?
<ochosi> bluesabre: wait, i thought it's semi-transparent?
<bluesabre> it is
<bluesabre> you can kinda see the background through it
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> a different, more black base color would help
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> then it's not dark enough
<ochosi> i'd suggest at least 0.7 as opacity
<ochosi> here's the wiki-page btw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/KeyboardShortcutsOverlay
<knome> bluesabre, have you seen skellat's blueprints?
<bluesabre> I think so
<ochosi> bluesabre: what it needs imo is a bit more padding at the borders
<knome> bluesabre, add anything you want to discuss there :)
<bluesabre> not sure if I have anything to add to those yet
<bluesabre> I'm basically throwing my thoughts onto this channel so people can give me an idea of what to suggest
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hm, i think the question is in how far e.g. parole and keyboard-shortcuts-overlay are xubuntu-specific
<ochosi> we can decide whether we want to make them xubuntu-driven, but to me they seem to be xfce projects rather
<ochosi> (in fact they are xubuntu-driven to some extent ofc)
<bluesabre> if we're the only developers, they are xubuntu-driven xfce projects
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that was my point
<ochosi> so it's kinda up to us to decide where to discuss them
<knome> well yes, as the SD says, we strive to work upstream
<knome> sure
<knome> it's ok to discuss them in the xubuntu blueprints, especially if you want feedback, but not necessary
<knome> (that was mostly about parole)
<knome> otoh keyboard shortuts are something that might be better discussed inside xubuntu first
<knome> there might be the argument that we should stick close to upstream with those as well
<ochosi> are you referring to default shortcuts?
<knome> there might be the argument that we should stick close to upstream with those as wellyes
<knome> oops. :)
<ochosi> heh
<knome> yes
<knome> oh, -overlay
<knome> well, same with that really
<ochosi> right, well we weren't talking about that, we were only talking bout the overlay
<knome> we should do that first with xubuntu (especially if upstream isn't sure if they want it, or don't want to use time in that)
<ochosi> yeah, that's why i meant, for us it's mostly: where do we _want_ to discuss this
<knome> with parole it's more clear that improvements are welcome
<knome> (to upstream directly)
<knome> yup, sure
<ochosi> yeah, i guess with the -overlay the question is whether we even want it in general in xubuntu
<ochosi> i personally think it's a nice small improvement, but not everyone might see it that way
<knome> of course. but then again somebody might raise the question if xfce wants it in general ;)
<knome> ...and then we have the question if it then becomes essentially a shimmer project
<ochosi> then we can make it a xubuntu project
<ochosi> imo if xubuntu doesn't ship it by default, it doesn't make much sense developing it
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> it's one of those things that should be "under the hood"
<knome> sure. but you saying that makes it a xubuntu project definitely.
<knome> no reason/argument to not discuss it inside xubuntu
<ochosi> if you have to install an extra package by hand, then it's just ridiculous
<ochosi> yeah sure
<ochosi> it is then _at least_ a xubuntu project
<knome> i agree, one wouldn't (want to) install that package manually
<ochosi> and then we can try to upstream it (cause it makes more sense in general)
<knome> of course
<ochosi> or maybe even try to upstream it in the first place
<ochosi> (after we've decided whether we want it in xubuntu, i mean)
<ochosi> bluesabre: long speech, short meaning: please add "do we want the overlay in xubuntu?" to the blueprint ;)
<knome> but since it's definitely a xubuntu project, and there's no information on upstream's opinion yet, i think it would make most sense if it was considered a xubuntu project and thoroughly discussed inside xubuntu
<knome> ...until upstream decides they want it for good
<bluesabre> make sense to me
<ochosi> yup, sounds good
<knome> i would consider that a standard procedure for anything that's not clearly adopted by upstream
<knome> (maximum certainty that things roll forward, minimal maintenance work for xubuntu)
<bluesabre> less fun for developers when we have to rebase all of our bzr commits to git
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> once.
<knome> and, tbh
<knome> being a xubuntu project doesn't mean it has to be in bzr/lp
<knome> i know that's generally suggested, but i'm not going to enforce
<bluesabre> personally I prefer bzr at this point
<bluesabre> I used to be a mercurial fanboy
<bluesabre> still not sure why I liked it
<knome> hg isn't bad
<knome> i don't think they have much differences to my use
<knome> Unit193, http://xubuntu.org/news/booting-the-xubuntu-usb-image-from-a-cd/
<bluesabre> knome, what format were we thinking about converting the xubuntu help to?
<knome> i can't remember the suggested one
<knome> it only popped up quickly since we had no time to do that anyway
<bluesabre> mallard uses yelp
<bluesabre> which is what the standard ubuntu help uses, as well as gedit/menulibre/ and probably other gtk apps
<lderan> aye hg isn't bad
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, if that means we can have translations... i suppose that's fine.
<knome> i just hope it's not too much work to migrate
<bluesabre> I might experiment with that in the next few days
<bluesabre> I want to get a head start
<bluesabre> since we always run out of time
<knome> that would be cool
<knome> want to add that to the blueprints?
<bluesabre> not sure which one
<knome> dunno. dev?
<bluesabre> sure
<smartboyhw> knome: Hmm amjjawad changed his project to "Start Ubuntu" now. What do you think?
<knome> smartboyhw, it's better, but i would still expect a small group review and build the idea until it's easy for others to jump in and start doing "real" things (eg. not brainstorming)
<knome> brainstorming is fine, but if you have 20 people doing that, you'll never get to agree on anything
<Unit193> knome: Thanks.
<knome> np
<smartboyhw> knome: I like that mail:)
<knome> good
<smartboyhw> knome: Noskcaj received his Ubuntu membership BTW:)
<knome> i heard
<knome> (and congratulated)
<Unit193> So we really need 3 hours to talk about Xubuntu?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, if it's that long, i might be there for part of it
<skellat> Unit193: Considering the pacing of how panels went at the last vUDS, we might actually cover everything on the three separate blueprints.  On the old one...we'd get through maybe the first two topics
<knome> better schedule too much than too little
<Unit193> knome: And if you don't mind, still planning on doing some sort of team audio/video session?
<knome> yes, i was just thinking about it...
<knome> i would prefer anything else than G+
<knome> even skype is okay, because i have a skype account but not G+
<Noskcaj> knome, if you have a gmail email, you have G+
<knome> Noskcaj, no, you're wrong. i have google emails, but i have not signed to G+, thus i don't have a G+ account.
<knome> Noskcaj, or in other words, good luck finding me on G+
<Noskcaj> knome, ok. making an account takes about a minute though
<knome> Noskcaj, yes, i know. but i don't want to.
<Noskcaj> i'm not sure why i care so much, i'm not going to be able to make it anyway
<skellat> Noskcaj: We don't even have time slots for the blueprints yet.  No schedule has been laid out yet.  If we used Jitsi for video conferencing, we could operate on a different schedule from vUDS if we really wanted to.
<Noskcaj> skellat, ok. someone let me know if it's between 2000 and 2200
<skellat> Your local time or UTC?
<Noskcaj> UTC
<Noskcaj> that's the only time everyone else seems to be on
<skellat> Check summit.ubuntu.com to see what the scheduler is running on
<knome> skellat, scheduling parallel to vUDS can prove very beneficial, but i don't see any reason why we should at any cost try to fit our sessions "in" vUDS
<skellat> I know
<knome> so yes, let's definitely schedule things when and how we like
<skellat> The vUDS day ends at 2000 UTC
<Noskcaj> skellat, i noticed, so no UDS for me
<skellat> 2000 UTC would be 4 PM local time for me in Ashtabula
<knome> a video/audio conference at that time might prove semi-hard for me at that time, but is doable
<knome> (that's 11pm here, and wife has morning shifts on those days)
<skellat> I have no problem going sidebar to vUDS to use what tech we prefer to use.  As long as we make records of what we discuss and it becomes available we're fine.
<knome> naturally
<skellat> Timeanddate.com has a meeting planner type tool for picking blocks
<knome> ideal days for me would be 10 and 11 actually
<knome> but meh, pleia2 isn't even back then
<skellat> The tool is here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
<knome> let's just pick a bad day for me and good for others. i'll adapt.
<knome> anything starting pre-23UTC is fine by me.
<knome> or after 9UTC too.
<knome> and i can adapt.
<knome> based on the few polls we had, 15UTC+ seems to be good for most of us on weekdays
<Noskcaj> 2000-2200 and 0600-0900 for me
<knome> we could schedule at least one session around the 20-22 timeslot
<skellat> knome: When does pleia2 get back?  Do we want to wait for her?
<knome> she's back on 13th or so, and yes, i'd really love her to be able to join us
<knome> so back for vUDS anyway
<Unit193> s/to.*// :---D
<knome> humm
<knome> i do love pleia2!
 * skellat notes https://launchpad.net/sprints/xubuntusaucy is available to group the blueprints separate from vUDS if we do our own "vUDS After Hours" thing each day in the 2000-2200 UTC time slot
<Unit193> !find jitsi | skellat
<ubottu> skellat: Package/file jitsi does not exist in raring
<knome> oh cool.
<knome> skellat, feel free to set xubuntu-team as the driver
<skellat> Unit193: Yeah, they're building their own nightly debs and haven't gotten into archives yet
<knome> skellat, thanks :)
<skellat> knome: With that sprint scheduled we can do our own thing after vUDS is done for the day too
<knome> i wonder if we can move the existing blueprints
<skellat> I'm gonna try to do that
<knome> skellat, i suppose you still have more permissions than me on the sprint. would you please add me as a driver well? :)
<knome> +sd
<knome> -sd+as
<skellat> Hunh.  That's not good.  Apparently I can add drivers infinitely.
<skellat> :-)
<knome> hehe
<skellat> Or not
<knome> hmm.
<skellat> Apparently the person who set up the Sprint and one delegate can be drivers
<knome> yeah. and apparently only you can control the sprint
<knome> (i don't see any more things i can do there)
<skellat> :-(
<skellat> Oh well, the big part is that the blueprints are now separate from vUDS-1305
<skellat> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/xubuntusaucy/+specs
<knome> though they are still "proposed" to uds-1305
<knome> and apparently, one can't "unpropose"
<knome> i'm thinking we might be overthinking this.
<skellat> That part will just fall off
<skellat> They've been proposed to uds-1305 for a while and nobody's touched them
<knome> having an own LP sprint doesn't seem to offer us anything new
<knome> i'm sure we can get them approved by poking correct people
<knome> i also imagine community is a better track for them, or as skaet hoped in UDS-R, we should have a flavors track, or even one track per flavor...
<knome> but seriously, all this might be overkill. including our own sprint :)
<skellat> They're running tight on overhead for keeping tracks straight
<skellat> I know
<skellat> But, 3 nights, 3 separate Xubuntu discussions at a leisurely pace...we can do that
<knome> yep
<skellat> Plus we get the added benefit of keeping Noskcaj in the loop
<Noskcaj> yay!
<knome> and others
<scottbomb> Question about testing... about when are testers needed for dailies now that you guys are starting on the new release (saucy)?
<knome> i'm fine with anything, as long as it's not G+ ;)
<knome> first alpha is June 20
<Noskcaj> scottbomb, any testing from this point on is helpful
<knome> and feature definition freeze May 30
<scottbomb> ok thanks
<knome> i would imagine we will start dropping actual new things to xubuntu after that
<knome> but of course, there's the debian syncing done and all that
<Noskcaj> and existing bugs
<Unit193> I'm wondering if we can use XMPP generally, then people can use several different clients.
<Noskcaj> scottbomb, if you run an iso test, please change your timezone to sydney temporarily, it seems to point to the wrong place
<scottbomb> interesting, will do
<skellat> Unit193: XMPP can carry audio 
<Noskcaj> bug 1172015
<ubottu> bug 1172015 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Sydney timezone is in the wrong location" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172015
<Unit193> Indeed, that's what I'm referring to.
<knome> Unit193, we have more than a week to set up anything we want!
<Unit193> Do either of you have an XMPP client and account somewhere?  Gmail should work.
<Unit193> (And willing to test, of course.)
<knome> i can test on sunday
<skellat> I actually have XMPP accounts listed on my LP profile
<skellat> They're listed under Jabber, though
<skellat> There we go, I'm logged back in to my alpacaherder@jabber.org XMPP account
<Unit193> Don't think that worked.
<skellat> Pidgin said I was pushing something downstream
<skellat> sflphone is another client supposedly useful in such cases
<skellat> s/sflphone/ekiga/
<bluesabre> somebody should log a bug for knome avoiding G+
<knome> hah
 * knome will mark wontfix
<knome> and veto disagreeing voices
<bluesabre> :D
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> knome: Understandable, I avoid GitHub.
<lderan> can't blame you for doing that
<bluesabre> but we can blame him for lots of other things
<bluesabre> :D
 * Unit193 is on LP and bitbucket, though he hardly uses the second.
<lderan> :D
<Unit193> (Bitbucket so I have a backup {have selfhosted git} for private projects.)
<bluesabre> BitBucket was for when I was addicted to mercurial and couldn't figure out bzr
<bluesabre> those were the days
<Unit193> LP doesn't have private repos, that you don't have to buy.  (Also, git is faster.)
<knome> bluesabre, oops: http://shimmerproject.org/about/
<bluesabre> oh crap, now I'm important
<knome> i'll make sure you get an account on the new site, but until that, if you want changes to your intro text, poke me.
<bluesabre> sure thing
<lderan> night all
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-04
<Unit193> knome: Can I somehow edit the post on the Xubuntu website?  Somehow the homepage link for plop broke. (Download link still works.)
<smartboyhw> knome: If you don't mind, I would like to forward the QA team mail to ubuntu-quality mailing list so every tester knows who to contact.
<smartboyhw> If they want to test for Xubuntu
<elfy> smartboyhw: at the moment the mail say amongst other things "propose" and "Unless no objections " so I'd not do anything of the sort yet 
<elfy> and if it comes to it I am perfectly capable of posting to the list myself :)
<smartboyhw> elfy: Good;) Welcome back to QA !
<smartboyhw> elfy: But seriously, who will object?
<elfy> besides the point :) it's good manners 
<smartboyhw> elfy: I know it"s good manners, I am thinking who will:P
<elfy> no idea - but they have the chance, and I'll not be posting to the mailing list until I get back - so don't start thinking you're helping by doing it because I've not done it immediately
<smartboyhw> elfy: :)
<smartboyhw> elfy: I won't interfere
<benonsoftware> sort
<elfy> ed
<benonsoftware> Oops, sorry about that.
<elfy> I did wonder - I know you like to be in channels and say nothing :D
<elfy> just not very good at hiding :)
<lderan> :P
<benonsoftware> Heh, I do idle in many *buntu channels, I was trying to type /sort into my client and missed the /.
<knome> Unit193, i don't think you can. send me things you want to change
<knome> smartboyhw, yes, it's not official yet, that's why i haven't posted it to ubuntu-quality, or changed anything around in the wiki
<Unit193> knome: Add a comma after first )  and fix the plop.at website, needs www. please?
<knome> i'm on it
<Unit193> Danke.
<knome> updated
<knome> is it fine now?
<knome> (you might need to hard refresh)
<Unit193> Loaded, refreshed and was all good.
<Unit193> Thanks.
<knome> good good
<Unit193> (Actually linked it today too, surprisingly.)
<knome> ooh
<knome> how unexpected ;>
<bluesabre> good morning everybody :D
<Unit193> Hello.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193!
<bluesabre> it always surprises me that you're awake when I am
<bluesabre> despite the fact that I get up super early usually for the EST time zone
<Unit193> :)
<Unit193> The trick is to not sleep.
<bluesabre> I'm not very good at that trick
<bluesabre> I need a faster hard drive to test packaging faster
<Unit193> Heh, I'm with you there, but faster CPU and more ram wouldn't hurt.
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> thats why I'm going to get a new laptop soon :)
<bluesabre> woot!
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/256397
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-05
<knome> micahg, bug 1173114?
<ubottu> bug 1173114 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Raring desktop uses Quantal wallpaper by default" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173114
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-28
<OvenWerk1> knome: reading from way back up the back log about ISO size. I sense that there is the idea of making it easy to have everything on a CD where inernet is not available/fast but small for where it is.
<OvenWerk1> How hard would it be to make a two cd set? The first is a minimal install and the second is just packages? The first includes a chooser for the second.
<OvenWerk1> That way, in places with minimal internet, one cd set could do many computers.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: It's done in seeds. I've been meaning to do this for us for next cycle
<zequence> OvenWerk1: You can check how others do it. I think Lubuntu has a bunch of different ISOs
<Unit193> For arches, not sub-flavors.
<zequence> Unit193: They have both a live and an alternate
<zequence> Unit193: What do you mean, sub flavors? You starting one in Xubuntu?
<Unit193> Right, but the same system.
<jhenke> good morning
<brainwash> any idea what might be the cause for bug 1313220 ?
<ubottu> bug 1313220 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Application Shortcuts (Hotkeys) Only Sometimes Work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313220
<knome> OvenWerk1, multiple discs would still mean more testing...
<knome> OvenWerk1, and i can't see the extra disc as much more than just an offline software repository
<knome> OvenWerk1, people can create such discs already, and choose what they want to include
<knome> OvenWerk1, eg. not have to download whole libreoffice if you just wanted a single langpack
<zequence> knome: We have a special situation where the live DVD is a great tool and showcase, but too big to be practical for most installations
<zequence> So, we will definately have two images
<zequence> Either introducing a very basic netinstall, or a much smaller live CD variant
<brainwash> knome: please mark bug 1312641 as wishlist, thanks :)
<ubottu> bug 1312641 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Removable drives and media do not automatically mounted at boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312641
<ochosi> brainwash: i suppose you didn't update your ppa with the new patch for powerman?
<brainwash> no
<ochosi> that would be nice, please remove the sleep though if you can, so we have a patch/test that could be proposed for SRU
<brainwash> but which new patch?
<ochosi> this, but without line 31: http://lpaste.net/103262
<brainwash> what about the briefly visible desktop?
<brainwash> xscreensaver even adds a 1 sec sleep before locking
<brainwash> so it feels more like a wonky workaround
<ochosi> it is
<ochosi> it's nothing i'd want to go upstream
<brainwash> we need a proper solution
<ochosi> but i think it's good enough to send it through some testing
<brainwash> mmh, maybe add some logic, so it only locks on wake up if light-locker is running
<brainwash> otherwise before suspend
<ochosi> yeah, but then you get to the funky part of detecting what locker is running/used
<ochosi> what would you do if both xscreensaver and light-locker are installed/running? (typical upgrade case)
<brainwash> prefer ll
<Gryllida> what is light-locker ?
<brainwash> llc already tests if ll is running
<ochosi> just trying to make a point, it's not easy to detect what is in use
<brainwash> so we can re-use the code
<brainwash> but this is getting to hack-ish
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> i think the simple patch should be tested
<ochosi> for 14.10 onwards, there'll be a better powerman etc etc
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> brainwash, done
<brainwash> knome: thanks
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1313011
<ubottu> bug 1313011 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "sound-indicator doesn't obey Theme Configuration settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313011
<brainwash> maybe you know what's broken here
<bluesabre> d'oh!
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1313276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313276 in MenuLibre "Crash of Menulibre and Alacarte due to conflict in xfce-applications.menu" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> knome: can you verify that the problem goes away if you remove the second Preferences item?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I take it back, compton works quite well now
<knome> bluesabre, i'll check that at some point
<brainwash> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test now without the 1 sec sleep
<knome> GridCube, timem to evaluate -team membership (per strategy document): what kind of contributions did you do for trusty, and do you plan to contribute to the project in the future?
<knome> GridCube, asking because you didn't have any work item assigned the last cycle
<GridCube> I have not done much really, i've done a few tests when elfy asked me, but not all the ones i would have liked to. I have giving some support on the main channel. As i have not been able to join most of the meeting in the last cycle i could not insert my opinions or take some task works that could have been handed to me if wanted, not that i can do much programing and such, the only project i had that i could take some time to do was the 
<GridCube> desktop of the week thing, but that was postponed indefinetly and then i could do nothing about it.
<knome> right, that's correct. wonder why there isn't no work items for that...
<GridCube> I plan to keep being in the channels and doing all what i can to contribute to xubutnu, i still think its one of thebest OS i've ever used and im glad i can do even a little thing to help
<knome> so what are your plans in the future?
<knome> do you think you can do more testing?
<knome> and potentially help organizing the testcases?
<GridCube> sure i guess i can do that, i will need guidance to give me an start but i can
<knome> there's plenty if you are interested
<knome> most of it is in place, but they always need maintaining and improving
<GridCube> i was just writing my reply to the mailing list discussion about a new mailing list, and my opinion is that having an external place where people who can not join the meetings to properly read and inform about the cases to vote would be rather usefull, i know it would be to me.
<knome> i can most definitely agree to that
<GridCube> i understand that i have not beeing of much help lately, and i apologice about that
<knome> the problem/workload for that is actually keeping the mailing list updated
<GridCube> I know also that I don't always have the best of attitudes and i can be rather obnoxious, and again i apologize about that
<knome> that's okay, life happens and comes in the way
<knome> i was just checking the situation generally
<GridCube> thats good :)
<GridCube> again, if theres anything any of you need help with and think i could do a service, please let me know
<knome> you should be in touch with elfy mostly, who's running the testing and leading other efforts related to QA
<GridCube> very good
<knome> humph.
<ochosi> thanks brainwash, will check out in a bit
 * elfy get's the balrog's whip out ... 
<ElderDryas> None Shall Pass
<elfy> and welcomes GridCube to more testing :p
<ElderDryas> Hey elfy, speaking of testing...my Youngest Daughter just gave me a 500gig hdd (replaced it with a SSD in her laptop).  I'm think about dual booting :(, setting up a standard partition setup for use and a seperate partition for testing (no real data, etc). What's a good size for this...10, 15, 20, 25 gig ?
<elfy> I tend to use a 20Gb partition in vm for the majority of the basic testing - with that I can also let it do the install alongside testcase 
<elfy> I'm also this cycle going to be harping on - for those who are in a position to do so - to run unicorn as their main machine to get more testing done with packages/panel changes
<ElderDryas> yeah, vm...even worse than dual booting (hang overs from the days when 1) it was not so easy and 2) I was young and stupid.
<elfy> also we hope to set up a common ppa for us to use to test things
<ElderDryas> and while she gave me a larger hhd, she forgot to give me her ram (2gig and vm's are/were (?) dicey.
<elfy> ElderDryas: lol - I find vm testing fine for the basic stuff - I've got 2 unicorn vm's already - one is destined to run with systemd - I've got a trusty vm with that as well
<ElderDryas> so a 20 gig partition is good?
<elfy> aah yea - can be abit slow ith 2GbRam
<elfy> I'd say so - good enough to test installs with :)
<ElderDryas> well. I have a birthday coming up...time to start plotting the hints.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: any reason to hold the QA recap blog thing?
<knome> elfy, can't think of any
<elfy> ok - I'll publish then
<ochosi> knome: what's the status on the css stuff for the lock-article?
<knome> ochosi, "meh"
<elfy> knome ochosi - I'm happy to wait for that lock article to go first - I just would like to get the recap out before I start calling for unicorn
<ochosi> xubuntu project status types: "done", "todo", "inprogress", "blocked", "meh"
<knome> elfy, no, just go ahead with the testing article
<knome> ochosi, yep...
<elfy> ok - done that
<knome> can't see it
<knome> :P
<knome> oh
<knome> it's released on april 16
<knome> oops!
<knome> fixed now.
<knome> what the
<knome> elfy, did you look at the actual post?
<elfy> yea - why?
<knome> there was some really odd formatting
<elfy> where?
<knome> i'm fixing it
<elfy> k
<knome> should be ok now
<knome> tweeting
<elfy> thanks :)
<knome> and done
<elfy> :)
<knome> i should go to the grocery store
<knome> bu i'm hungry
<knome> and no wonder, haven't eaten much today
<elfy> so ... did we get anywhere with sorting blueprints for 
<knome> hmpf, no
<elfy> I hate going for food when hungry
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i have food at home though, the two issues are unrelated
<elfy> :)
<knome> ate a banana
<knome> but... yeah, we should get organized
<knome> i don't want to do too much before the next meeting though
<elfy> understand that
<elfy> I'm happy to do the 2 QA ones 
<elfy> when it's time 
<knome> yep
<elfy> QA one will be a lot smaller this time - not a huge list of bugs on it 
<brainwash> elfy: got some time to test xfpm once again? https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<hakermania> Hey there! Can anyone confirm that this is a XUbuntu related bug? Ubuntu's indicators do not seem to have any problem with it.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch/+bug/1313531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313531 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Huge Wallch icon in Xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> brainwash: yep - 
<ochosi> hakermania: yes, the icons don't get scaled down correctly currently
<ochosi> they changed that in the indicators rather late in the cycle and without warning, so we had on time to fix that
<hakermania> ok thanks a lot :) I just wanted to close the bug on Wallch :D
<ochosi> meh :)
<brainwash> elfy: the lock screen is triggered after waking up the system, so it might reveal the desktop for a brief moment. that's what we need to test and confirm
<brainwash> test with light-locker and xscreensaver
<brainwash> and maybe other screen lock apps
<ochosi> testing that now too... brb (hopefully)
<ochosi> brainwash: works fine with light-locker
<ochosi> no more seeing the session here, all goes as expected
<brainwash> 1 positive test result :)
<ochosi> well, better than 0 ;)
<elfy> exactly what are you expecting me to do here - in one line - and not forgetting I have and then asking me to do it all again ;)
<ochosi> 1) upgrade the xfpm package from brainwash's PPA
<ochosi> 2) restart xfpm
<ochosi> 3) make sure lock on suspend is set in light-locker-settings
<ochosi> 4) close the lid
<ochosi> 5) keep your fingers crossed that everything goes fine
<ochosi> 6) repeat the test with light-locker removed and xscreensaver installed instead
<ochosi> sound about right? ^
<brainwash> no need to open the lid? :P
<elfy> oh good lord - none of my alias's are set up on this :|
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, right, 5.1) open the lid, log in again ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> but you failed at the first hurdle anyway - looks like 6.1 lines to me :D
<ochosi> yeah, i know, readability > line-count ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> so that all went pear shaped ... 
<elfy> just undoing something I did the other day first :p
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> bah
<elfy> so I'll do it after I've reinstalled it 
<slickymasterWork> elfy: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds <- Xubuntu ones haven't landed yey
<slickymasterWork> *yet
<elfy> yea I know - I've not seen it build yet
<elfy> brainwash ochosi - so - vanilla install, add the ppa - upgraded what it wanted to - killed and restarted xpfm - closed the lid - restart - password - black screen
<elfy> purging ppa - readding it and then only upgrading xpfm and not light-locker
<elfy> which didn't want to know - so upgraded - no difference - black screen here
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> i guess it's no good if it doesn't work always for everyone
<elfy> it's still sitting at the dead screen - I left it just in case you wanted me to try anything
<elfy> ochosi: +1 this is the intel graphics machine
<ochosi> well there's not much to try
<elfy> ok
<elfy>  so it's all set up to test that now - I just need pinging as and when
<ochosi> guess if this sort of patch doesn't work, we'll need to find a good alternative approach first
<elfy> GridCube: if you want to get more involved in QA this cycle - and that doesn't just involve testing - let me know, I'm sure I can find something :)
<GridCube> elfy, sure, as i said anything i can help im willing to try
<elfy> 1st step is to get a trello account then I'm afraid :p
 * GridCube googles trello
<elfy> that's were we do the backstage stuff
<GridCube> done so
<elfy> k - what's the account name? 
<GridCube> GridCube
<elfy> k - you should get a mail from trello with the board name 
<elfy> lderan: re jenkins - excellent - all I've done till now is look rather irregularly :)
<lderan> :P
<GridCube> elfy, done and done
<elfy> GridCube: woohoo
<elfy> GridCube: I'll unarchive 14.04 and you can see how we used it during the cycle 
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ill check it up later
<GridCube> now i gotta go 
<GridCube> :D
<elfy> basically it's just a list that we all write to - you can subscribe to things etc
<GridCube> bbl
<elfy> yep - well it's there now to look at 
<GridCube> yes , i think i understand the concept
<elfy> 14.10 is quite empty 
<elfy> yea - it's not hard - I manage :)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: ping
<sergio-br2> hey
<Unit193> < brainwash> 4.2 has been released?  <-- Yep, and with unicorn.  It contains some fixes, one of which is for UTF-8 showing up right.
<Unit193> 4.2.1 is even out too, but not in Debian/Ubuntu yet.
<ochosi> 4.2 of what?
<Unit193> screen.
<ochosi> ah
<brainwash> ah
<Unit193> I pulled the one when it went into experimental and rebuilt for trusty, sweetness.
<ochosi> why, what does it do?
<ochosi> not even sure what version of screen i have here
<brainwash> just a version bump
<Unit193> ochosi: 1. Nice to actually have a release after this time. 2. 4.2.1 merges distro patches so that's kind of nice.  3. And last, and the biggest one: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/commit/?id=d94037c08a6dd30845b27cd76d99663e06aaabb2
<ochosi> right, i guess that's nice
<brainwash> mmh, does not get me hyped
<Unit193> Oki, well that's the "new release" info anywho.
<brainwash> at least it does not break anything
<brainwash> like firefox 29 will :D
<brainwash> new "innovative" GUI incoming
<Unit193> Yeah, wondering if I should apt-mark hold the current, though not the "best" idea.
<brainwash> ah, new dev cycle - same question
<brainwash> XMir?
<brainwash> or is it dead already (= not an option worth testing anymore)?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-29
<brainwash> everything seems to move in slow motion development wise
<sidi-valencia> Do you guys have much demand for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6311?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 6311 in General "Add "Go back" button in case screenshot is not OK" [Normal,New]
<sidi-valencia> or mostly storing teh passwordz
<Unit193> brainwash: I don't see any reason to, but that's just me.  Testing wouldn't happen yet, still too early for anything to change.
<sidi-valencia> http://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/linux-keyboard-stickers/xubuntu-circle-keyboard-sticker-cover-windows-flag SO EXCITED
<sidi-valencia> do you guys receive money from this?
<sidi-valencia> knome^
<Unit193> Logan_: Ready?
<Logan_> my body is always ready
<Unit193> Can you remind me why https://sigma.unit193.net/source/darkice_ubuntu-to-ubuntu.diff - https://sigma.unit193.net/source/darkice_1.2-0ubuntu1.dsc can't be uploaded? :)
<Unit193> Besides dh_auto_configure being weird.
<Unit193> Logan_: Did you perhaps get a sec or should I (maybe) bother someone else?
<Logan_> I'm actually about to sleep
<Logan_> and you didn't ping me, so I didn't notice that :P
<Unit193> Aha, alrighty-o.
<Unit193> Well good sleepy time, then.
<Logan_> thanks :P
<Logan_> you should sleep, too
<Unit193> Nah, it's still early.
<jhenke> ggod morning
<knome> sidi-valencia, they usually do that, but since we can't "make money" out of xubuntu, we will get some free stickers for the team instead
<slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/xubuntu-reviews/xubuntu-14-04-lts/ <- not sure if you already knew about this review
<knome> slickymasterWork, i read it yesterday
<slickymasterWork> ok
<sidi-valencia> interesting
<knome> what is?
<brainwash> is bug 1314153 a "won't fix" candidate?
<ubottu> bug 1314153 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "XUbuntu reinstalls all default packages on release update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314153
<knome> not really... i think it's something to fix
<knome> the problem is that it's not xubuntu-desktop that pulls in those packages
<knome> having xubuntu-default-settings reinstalls abiword and gnumeric
<knome> imo that's a bug
<brainwash> ah I see
<knome> (i didn't look at the bug itself, but i know what i said is true)
<brainwash> so I'll just ignore this report
<knome> well i just updated it
<brainwash> great :)
<knome> err, boo for the order of importance statuses
<knome> set to confirmed/low
<elfy> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> :) hi elfy 
<elfy> GridCube: so I have a task for someone :)
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> bit boring though ... I'd love to know what version apps we have for testcases - at present there is no version control on that
<GridCube> how would i do that?
<elfy> there is a pad linked to from the package test groups card - the info could go on that
<elfy> get the version of say terminal - add it to the pad
<elfy> going to talk to balloons about this later - I'd like to have an app's version referenced on the testcase - so we know where we are if things change
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: thanks, it's on my list to create the new Press page for 14.04, but I'm traveling this week so it keeps getting bumped, hopefully if today goes as planned I'll get it up today :)
<elfy> o/ pleia2 
<pleia2> hey elfy o/
<knome> pleia2, well actually the infrastructure is already updated, you only need to drop in links now
<pleia2> knome: oh, thanks :)
<knome> np
<pleia2> Permanently delete task 28 'create 1404 press page for xubuntu'? (yes/no) yes
<pleia2> \o/
<elfy> knome: hi :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> hey elfy 
<elfy> knome: when you've got some time to spare let me know 
<knome> now would be it
<elfy> mulling over the large groups of tests we have in some of our testsuites - and the resulting lump of time we end up asking our testers to give us
<knome> what kind of input would you like to have? :)
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e
<elfy> is what I was playing with
<elfy> much smaller groups - 9 of them - call one very 2 weeks - gives us 6 weeks in the cycle free of package calls
<elfy> was my thinking
<knome> mhm
<elfy> "this might be merged" is all well and good - but it's not at the moment - so I have to test with what I've got in images 
<knome> sure
<elfy> same with 'do we keep shipping' :)
<knome> just fyi and that it doesn't come as a surprise
<knome> yep
<elfy> mmm - thanks - I guess perhaps there are some specific channels and/or mailing lists it might be useful for me to be in/read
<knome> i guess #xfce-dev, but don't feel obliged to
<knome> a lot of it is irrelevant to you
<elfy> yea
<elfy> are there public logs?
<elfy> if there are I could just skim look there 
<knome> good question
<elfy> knome: so other than the fact that some things 'might' change - do you see an issue with changing testsuites about for unicorn?
<knome> i don't think there is
<knome> no, but looking at the list, might want to group media/docs
<knome> and not sure about mugshot/menulibre
<elfy> yep - that makes sense
<knome> menulibre could be in the new "apps" bunch (with media/docs)
<knome> mugshot and whiskermenu... don't really know, they are pretty different from gtk3 indicators and light-locker
<knome> though i guess it doesn't matter if we just want to split the testing to some even groups
<elfy> yea - I don't the 'grouping' itself is too much of an issue
<knome> also thinking if it made more sense to make a few optional testsuites
<knome> for example, accessories only has one non-optional item
<elfy> that's a good idea 
<elfy> I'll play with that 
<knome> so maybe consider grouping the optional testcases first
<knome> then see what's left
<knome> and try to make even groups
<knome> could even mix up them completely
<elfy> main thing I want is to be ready for when packages.qa is up
<elfy> yep - I'll look at that now 
<knome> eg. try to only have one "bigger" application in a group
<knome> so the testing isn't too unbalanced
<elfy> yep
<knome> fortunately we can create as many testsuites we want
<elfy> yep
<knome> so we can play around and improve as needed
<elfy> knome: that's mad - I wonder why that lump of appearances is still sitting in the settings manager testcaase
<knome> hehe
<elfy> bug 1314222 :)
<ubottu> bug 1314222 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Xubuntu Settings Manager includes appearance test" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314222
<elfy> knome: alternatively we could not use testsuites and just have the tests on the tracker seperately - (not the optional one) then just call from a list 
<knome> mmh
<elfy> you seem as enthralled by that as me :p
<elfy> I've fiddled about with the pad - I'm leaving it now for a day 
<slickymasterWork> knome, you around?
<Logan_> Unit193: did you get someone to look at your update?
<knome> slickymaster, now i am
<elfy> slickymaster Unit193 lderan - can you look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e - we need to amalgamate the top 9 groups a bit more - but I want someone else to look - thanks
<ochosi> i hope you don't mind that i keep advertising your PPA with the powerman patch to potential testers ;)
<brainwash> it does not fix the problem for elfy... so I don't feel like spreading the word myself to get more testers :P
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> it's just so hard to believe for me that i can't stop spreading the word :p
<brainwash> this problem is really annoying, it's all about the right timing
<brainwash> or implementing a proper solution
<ochosi> yup, proper solution seems a bit out of reach for 14.04 though
<brainwash> it would involve xfpm, ll and maybe the greeter (blank timings)
<brainwash> so meh
<Unit193> Logan_: I hadn't pushed for it.
<ochosi> brainwash: exactly. proper solution in some future release, patch-up for 14.04
<Logan_> Unit193: but pushing is how you succeed!
<Unit193> Logan_: But I've already had it locally since the beginning of saucy. :D
<amigamagic> ochosi are you there?
<amigamagic> some theme expert here? knome?
<ochosi> amigamagic: what's up?
<amigamagic> ochosi, wait I'll post a screenshot so you can view my problem
<amigamagic> ochosi, http://oi57.tinypic.com/35hle8z.jpg
<amigamagic> I'm trying to make a blue border around the active windows from greybird theme
<amigamagic> so I copied the border image files from kokodi theme
<amigamagic> to the greybird theme folder
<amigamagic> but I have big troubles in modifying the xpm files of the top borders
<ochosi> how are you having troubles?
<ochosi> 1) just use gimp and 2) remove the png files for starters
<amigamagic> when I open them with the gimp and resave them without changing nothing, they will change!
<amigamagic> it's like they have an alpha channel that gimp doesn't recognize
<ochosi> no, but some of them pick up theme colors
<ochosi> you can see when you edit them with a text editor
<ochosi> but as long as you don't want to do that, just create a theme with absolute colors with gimp
<amigamagic> you think that's normal that if I open the file top-left-active.xpm (from Kokodi theme) and resave it with gimp, without change nothing, it will be messed up?
<amigamagic> now I'll post another screenshot of the difference before and after the resaving with gimp...
<ochosi> i already told you
<knome> amigamagic, please don't ping specific people unless you really need to talk with them please
<brainwash> I tried to work on the invisible border patch for xfwm4 today.. and gave up after 5min
<brainwash> :/
<amigamagic> knome, I needed to talk with him :P
<knome> but not me.
<amigamagic> sorry, but I thought you too could explain this thing to me
<amigamagic> ochosi, here is the screenshot of my top left border after the resaving with gimp: http://oi58.tinypic.com/2a6m32d.jpg
<amigamagic> basically, I would like to have a blue little border around all the window (starting from the greybird theme)
<ochosi> then just replace the few pixels you need to replace in a text-editor in greybird
<amigamagic> from the xpm file, you mean?
<ochosi> yes
<amigamagic> ok, I will try that, thanks
<amigamagic> thanks ochosi, changing the xpm file with a text editor works... It's a little tedious, but it works...
<Unit193> Logan_: Were you perhaps interested in taking a look or should I head to -motu?
<bluesabre> knome: are you around?
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> want to do me a favor?
<knome> tell me what it would be and i'll consider ;)
<bluesabre> tough customer
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> knome: can you verify the fix here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1313276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313276 in MenuLibre "Crash of Menulibre and Alacarte due to conflict in xfce-applications.menu" [Undecided,New]
<knome> oh bah ;)
<knome> give me anything from 5mins to 30mins
<knome> and i'll go and verify it
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'm trying to figure out where the duplication is coming from
<bluesabre> think I have narrowed it down
<bluesabre> and when you do try that, let me know
<bluesabre> I have a little debug code I want you to try
<bluesabre> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-30
<sidi-valencia> may i suggest the codebase should be made tougher rather than the duplication removed? :)
<bluesabre> that's the plan
<bluesabre> part of it is the different menu implementations
<bluesabre> which is why alacarte does not work with xfce any more
<bluesabre> menulibre adapts to the different oddities
<bluesabre> for example: lxde-settings = "DesktopSettings", gnome-settings = "Preferences", xfce-settings = "Settings"
<bluesabre> it seems each gnome-based thing (gnome, unity, cinnamon, possibly pantheon) use "Preferences" in this case
<bluesabre> or how "Utility" is always "Accessories"
<bluesabre> silly to have a specification that everybody follows differently
<bluesabre> I'm fairly confident that I have the fix now knome
<knome> just a moment, just a moment
<knome> so you want me to take the menu files in the bug
<knome> and edit them accordingly
<bluesabre> sent you an email
<knome> heh, ta
<bluesabre> with the details
<bluesabre> but yeah, try that too (first)
 * knome meh's at some code
<knome> give me a few mins more.
<bluesabre> take your time
 * bluesabre found a bug before it was reported
<bluesabre> :D
 * amigamagic finally created its first xfce theme graybird based
<ochosi> hehe, congrats on that, bluesabre 
<ochosi> and night everyone
<amigamagic> ochosi, night
<amigamagic> tomorrow I will post a screenshot of my modded greybird theme
<knome> bluesabre, actually, i think i need to look at the bug tomorrow. sorry
<knome> 4am...
<knome> bluesabre, besides, how am i supposed to try to reproduce?
<knome> i couldn't do that the first time either ;)
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> not sure
<bluesabre> you pulled it off somehow
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> hah
<knome> did you notice that bug was not mine?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> but I think it is related
<bluesabre> since the file you sent me has the same issue
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> in a way, that bug is the explanation of the bug you reported ;)
<knome> aha, so a dupe? :P
<knome> but yeah, the hard part is that i *really* don't know how to reproduce...
<knome> and thus, in a way, no way to verify the bug is gone...
<knome> it probably has something to do with me trying to get a launcher show in "other" under settings manager and not somewhere else
<deddokatana> OK
<deddokatana> us there a dev in?
<sidi-valencia> Hello?
<deddokatana> where can i file a beta test report for xubuntu desktop utopic
<knome> you can't.
 * sidi-valencia was gonna ping knome 
<knome> sidi-valencia, for what?
<deddokatana> :D ive successfully debootstraped it from the ubuntu repo
<sidi-valencia> ^
<deddokatana> just a webcam issue, (i think something was forgotten from the xubuntu-desktop metapackage)
<knome> deddokatana, be helpful and run tests later in the cycle when we ask you to
<Logan_> Unit193: would you consider forwarding that to the Debian maintainer?
<deddokatana> i would, but the proper package is unknown, but i suggest uvccapture
<deddokatana> maybe is should be in the reccomended for cheese
<deddokatana> knome, my twitter is @deddokatana, please contact me to book a vnc / shh / script test session
<deddokatana> i look forward to learning a few tricks
<knome> deddokatana, just join the ~xubuntu-testers launchpad team and you'll get the calls for testing to your inbox
<Logan_> Unit193: also, looks like we can sync irker now :)
<Unit193> Yep, sure can.
<Unit193> (To the second.)
<Unit193> Logan_: I'll, uh, try and think about forwarding the darkice update back.  Just contacted the alpine guy.
<Logan_> ok
<deddokatana> where would i file an underpowered usb hub to? possible kernel module bug. there was only one device plugged into the hub.
<knome> don't file any bugs against utopic
<deddokatana> cause right now it appears to be a duplicate of trusty?
<knome> appears or not, it's not trusty
<deddokatana> that just boosted my bragging rights amongst my freinds..
<deddokatana> ok, im going to see if anyone needs help in community support
<pleia2> ok, updated http://xubuntu.org/press/
<knome> goodie
<deddokatana> buttery smooth but one mainline kernel may be responsible for 2 of my nuked hard disk.. that or stirring up shit about banks.
<deddokatana> ok heading to off topic
<Unit193> Logan_: Woah, the alpine maintainer was amazingly receptive.
<jhenke> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> morning
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<elfy> ochosi: was reading scrollback in -offtopic - you said to someone - only install xfpm from the PPA - when I tried to do that it wouldn't let me - had to upgrade lightlocker as well
<elfy> is that something that shouldn't have happened?
<elfy> might be why it didn't work for me :)
<elfy> s/install/upgrade
<ochosi> well, at least it was unncessary
<ochosi> why could you not only upgrade xfpm?
<ochosi> after adding the PPA, run "sudo apt-get update && sudo aÃpt-get install xfce4-power-manager"
<elfy> well I didn't install - I upgraded ... 
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> I'll have another go later with installing it 
<ochosi> but the install command upgrades too
<ochosi> if there's a newer version
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> however, if it does work with that xpfm - then there's something dodgy going on with that lightlocker I guess :p
<elfy> shall report back this afternoon 
<ochosi> well the hidden cursor issue is likely unrelated to light-locker
<ochosi> so forget about that package for now
<elfy> I don't get hidden cursor 
<elfy> or did once 
<ochosi> never got that one myself
<elfy> by once I actually mean 1 time
<Unit193> Oh, so the terrible oh-no,-screen-won't-come-back-from-suspend seems to only be on lid close, I use the other suspend and it's always fine.
<Unit193> Oh duh, nevermind. >_<
<elfy> lol - catch up :p
<ochosi> Unit193: any idea where the package glade-xfce went?
<Unit193> (No, I forgot I didn't count, I use systemd)
<ochosi> used to be around in raring, but not anymore
<Unit193> !info libxfcegui4-4
<ubottu> libxfcegui4-4 (source: libxfcegui4): Basic GUI C functions for Xfce4. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.10.0-2 (trusty), package size 225 kB, installed size 1147 kB
<Unit193> drop glade-xfce package, now provided by libxfce4ui.
<ochosi> right, i read that
<ochosi> but somehow glade-gtk2 still complains about not finding the catalog
<ochosi> so maybe something is messed up there
<Unit193> Whoops, missed one important one:   * debian/libxfcegui4-4.install:
<Unit193>     - stop installing glade files since they are gone.
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> they're still useful though
<ochosi> just installed the raring package for testing purposes, but now glade-gtk2 segfaults \o/
<Unit193> Checking logs.
<Unit193> ochosi: How badly do you need them and for what?
<ochosi> for being able to modify xfce dialogs with glade
<ochosi> those that use xfcetitleddialog
<Unit193> ochosi: You can try out the glade-xfce package I have here, but not sure if it'll work.
<ochosi> i'm already on the road to finishing the dialog in mousepad
<ochosi> it's tedious, but at least mousepad doesn't randomely crash ;)
<ochosi> i'll happily try it when i've finished this here though
<Unit193> Cool, grab the deb from ppa:unit193/staging.
<bluesabre> I usually just edit the glade to make it GtkDialog
<bluesabre> do what I need to do, then change it back
<knome> went ahead and added the community council checkup to the team calendar
<knome> and the next meeting
<ochosi> bluesabre: works fine with gtk3, but with gtk2 i just get segfaults
<bluesabre> probably something not linked correctly
<bluesabre> I think libxfce4-ui is now libxfce4-ui-1
<bluesabre> right?
<bluesabre> libxfce4ui is now libxfce4ui-1
<bluesabre> (just a guess, probably wrong)
<Unit193> 1 is gtk2, 2 is gtk3.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but that's only the problem of using xfcetitleddialog
<ochosi> i meant: glade-gtk2 just crashes when i create an empty file and try to add a gtkdialog as topÃlevel widget
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> yeah, that version of glade is crashy as hell
<bluesabre> (as are most versions)
<ochosi> well, the gtk3 version is *much* better ;)
<ochosi> anyway, meanwhile finished revamping the whole xfpm dialog
<ochosi> so...
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> once knome reports back about that bug being fixed, I can probably do a menulibre release
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> and minor releases on the other projects are coming up too
<bluesabre> then I'd like to experiment some more with the display settings and try to get a fancy dialog working
<ochosi> sounds cool
<ochosi> only thing is that i've only ever seen a fancy dialog in python so far
<ochosi> or in c, but >2000 lines heavy
<Unit193> Meh, too many deps for glade-gtk2 or I'd try it.
<knome> bbl
<elfy> !team 
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> please check http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e 
<elfy> that is how I'm planning to call for testing this cycle - dates are there - leaves all the milestone dates free
<elfy> leaves us a big gap at the end that we can call for specific things as required
<elfy> I'll leave the pad now - please use that for comments if any - I'll be sorting this all out early next week. 
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> at that point I will be building the new testsuites and won't be wanting to fiddle again
<knome> elfy, that looks good to me
<elfy> knome: yep - did me 
<ali1234> elfy: do you still have that VM where you installed ubuntu-desktop^ over xubuntu?
<elfy> ali1234: not any more - but I'm happy enough to set one up and keep it hanging about
<ali1234> my multimedia keys stopped working after i did that
<elfy> oh - I'm not sure I'd be any help with that - no media keys 
<ali1234> bug 1314782
<ubottu> bug 1314782 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "multimedia keys don't work when xfce4-volumed is run in daemon mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314782
<elfy> only media keys I've got are vol+/- and mute
<ali1234> that will do
<elfy> k - I'll set up the xubuntu one now 
<ali1234> installing ubuntu-sdk seems to have a lot of really nasty side-effects for us
<ali1234> also, has anyone tested if those lock screen bypass bugs affect us?
<elfy> no idea - which bug #'s
<ali1234> just checking
<ali1234> bug 1308572
<ubottu> bug 1308572 in unity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 14.04: security problem in the lock screen" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308572
<ali1234> that one probably doesn't but there was a new one that involves indicators
<elfy> not seen any references to that one
<elfy> ali1234: so what do you want me to do exactly here - install xubuntu then ubuntu-sdk?
<ali1234> bug 1313885
<ubottu> bug 1313885 in Unity "lock screen bypass" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313885
<elfy> not seen that either
<ali1234> elfy: install ubuntu-desktop^ then reboot and test multimedia keys. then if they still work, install ubuntu-sdk and test again
<elfy> ok
<ali1234> if they still work after that then i'm stumped
<elfy> ok
<elfy> and the vol key doesn't work in vm anyway ... 
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> oh well :/
<brainwash> did the sdk install any gtk modules?
<brainwash> bug 1239014 seems to be similar
<ubottu> bug 1239014 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd unable to daemonize properly when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239014
<brainwash> and our lock screen is not affected by those bugs, because it's running in a different vt
<ali1234> still? i thought that changed? (i don't ever lock my computer)
<brainwash> changed?
<brainwash> ah, it's planned to be changed 
<elfy> ali1234: seems that multimedia keys are not passed to vbox guest
<sidi-valencia> can you check if gnome-settings-daemon is running?
<sidi-valencia> or gnome-*-daemon for the matter
<ali1234> maybe try while holding the right ctrl (or whatever the passthrough key is)
<elfy> ali1234: tried that :(
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368694/
<ali1234> ps waxf | grep gnome ^
<ali1234> sidi-valencia: i don't understand why daemon mode makes a difference... really odd
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, will check the code in a minute
<brainwash> other Xfce components do the same (time out)
<ali1234> ah... i see
<brainwash> appfinder, xfsettingd
<ali1234> in daemon mode, it never "starts up"?
<ali1234> cos it hangs somewhere in the init, any idea why/where?
<brainwash> so far it has been caused by the overlay scrollbar gtk module
<ali1234> yeah, i remember that bug from last year
<ali1234> but did we ever figure out why or fix it?
<brainwash> appfinder's daemonize routine has been rewritten upstream to use gdbus instead
<ali1234> i will test the workaround from your bug
<brainwash> this fixed the problem
<sidi-valencia> lookup main.c if curious
<sidi-valencia> it forks
<sidi-valencia> cleans up its std*
<sidi-valencia> nothing special at all
<sidi-valencia> so there might be something going on when it forks, maybe another daemon has a time window to steal the keys?
<ali1234> brainwash: setting the env var doesn't help. also i don't have overlay scrollbars anywhere. no doubt it is something similar though
<ali1234> i'll try stracing it i guess
<brainwash> maybe strace it
<sidi-valencia> you could maybe write some sort of test with a delayed SIGALRM and only fork when you receive that, see if you can use the keys before the fork
<sidi-valencia> but im just going to call your system broken and say you should use one volume daemon at a time ;)
<brainwash> xD
<ali1234> i am though
<ali1234> i killed all others
<sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep gnome
<sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep pulse
<sidi-valencia> ps aux | grep -v sidi
<sidi-valencia> :D
<ali1234> yes, i run pulseaudio
<ali1234> nothing else shows up on that search
<sidi-valencia> (it has nothing to do with pulse obviously ;) )
<sidi-valencia> hm interesting
<ali1234> "volume" only shows things related to gvfs, ie disk volumes
<ali1234> i guess i could start removing ubuntu packages until it works again... not sure that's the reason it is broken though
<ali1234> right, with strace, the forked child just hangs
<ali1234> attached gdb... it's still inside keybinder_init
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, can you open main.c and comment out the setsid part?
<sidi-valencia> oh
<sidi-valencia> hm
<ali1234> it is trying to get a lock on something inside glib
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368788/
<sidi-valencia> bad news
<sidi-valencia> this is not code from me
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> this is an ubuntu bug
<sidi-valencia> can you build it with another lib?
<sidi-valencia> or a compiled version?
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<sidi-valencia> its probably a file being locked by a faulty package
<sidi-valencia> compiled version -> debugging version
<sidi-valencia> sorry me speak bad english
<sidi-valencia> :D
<ali1234> you mean, build with debug symbols?
<sidi-valencia> keybinder is built with glic i think
<sidi-valencia> unless its a glib thing
<sidi-valencia> trying to figure this out now
<sidi-valencia> waaaha. the amount of dependencies this package pulls in
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, im surprised you *only* have xvd not working
<ali1234> oh plenty of other stuff was broken too
<sidi-valencia> stuff hanging?
<sidi-valencia> crashing?
<ali1234> yes, or crashing with security exceptions
<sidi-valencia> and what did you install that could've changed your glib?
<ali1234> ubuntu-desktop^ and ubuntu-sdk
<ali1234> but nothing could have changed glib
<sidi-valencia> what is this ^?
<ali1234> it means a package group, not a package called ubuntu-desktop
<ali1234> it's about 400mb of packages
<ali1234> sdk is about another 200mb
<sidi-valencia> ok
<sidi-valencia> nothing replaces the glib, 100% sure?
<ali1234> of course
<brainwash> got a list of files which were installed?
<sidi-valencia> the kernel?
<sidi-valencia> pthreads?
<sidi-valencia> what hangs is a call to pthread_rwlock_rdlock
<ali1234> this isn't arch, we don't screw around with different kernels and pthreads implementations :)
<ali1234> there is only one of each for all ubuntu
<sidi-valencia> ohohohoh
<sidi-valencia> though note that it could be a change to cairo, pango, atk....
<ali1234> maybe
<sidi-valencia> any lib launched by xvd, that has been modified by your packages, could cause this if this lib uses glib
<sidi-valencia> or pthread
<ali1234> i can't figure out how we are building it without gstreamer support
<ali1234> yes, but the point is that no low level libraries can have been modified, because there is only ever one version of each in ubuntu
<sidi-valencia> and excuse-me but here on arch there are only 2 kernel, a single pthread implementation and no weird patches coming out of nowhere ;)
<ali1234> we have multiple kernels - they are in different packages, so one can never replace another
<ali1234> same for everything else really
<sidi-valencia> anyway if you tell me theres only one pango, cairo, etc then i've got no reason to not believe you :)
<sidi-valencia> it would be weird anyway
<ali1234> let me find the package log...
<sidi-valencia> yet those packages you pulled apparently cause one of these libs to be affected
<sidi-valencia> could we trace what is called in keybinder depending on whether xvd is daemonized?
<ali1234> if i can figure out how to rebuild it
<sidi-valencia> (also pls try to run it daemonize with setsid() commented out in main.c, i'm a bit curious about this)
<sidi-valencia> do you use systemd?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368880/ <- line 88 is the last time it worked for sure
<ali1234> note the long lines
<sidi-valencia> you installed ubuntu-desktop and got some systemd and wayland stuff pulled in?? :D
<ali1234> i already had wayland stuff installed
 * sidi-valencia was trolling but it failed
<ali1234> i like systemd
<sidi-valencia> ok so im reading up about setsid stuff, maybe maybe changing the process group and session of the process causes the glib to be unhappy? (/me doesnt know what to explore)
<sidi-valencia> me too!
<ali1234> yeah, that is a distinct possibility
<ali1234> would also explain the permissions stuff
<sidi-valencia> can you comment out the setsid bit?
<ali1234> if i can figure out how to rebuild this thing
<ali1234> it keeps complaining about missing libraries
<sidi-valencia> well ali1234 i dont really remember why i put that but now that there's cgroups and everything in Linux setsid might have changed meaning a bit..
<ali1234> gstreamer stuff that i don't have
<sidi-valencia> oh
<sidi-valencia> send me messages pls
<sidi-valencia> i need to update the build chain
<sidi-valencia> it just builds too easily on my system
<ali1234> i don't think it is a problem per se
<sidi-valencia> (also pls tell me which ubuntu patches you have if any)
<ali1234> the ubuntu package obviously uses some configure options to disable that stuff
<ali1234> there's no distro patches in ubuntu afaik
<ali1234> the thing is though... why does it only break with ubuntu stuff installed? they must be applying more security restrictions in some config somewhere...
<sidi-valencia> i dont think its security-related
<ali1234> commenting setsid didn't help
<sidi-valencia> oki
<sidi-valencia> can you also try with freopen, chdir and fork?
<sidi-valencia> (with fork also comment setsid or it might be unhappy)
<ali1234> the version in ubuntu is a little different
<sidi-valencia> can you pls show me what they changed?
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7368945/
<ali1234> i assume it is just an old version
<ali1234> well, i'll figure this out the hard way i guess
<ali1234> let me find my syslog debugging patches...
<ali1234> i notice that in newer versions, gtk_init has been moved to after the fork
<sidi-valencia> really?
<ali1234> yeah, compare the paste with HEAD
<ali1234> HAH that fixes it
<ali1234> i wonder why we have this old version anyway?
<ali1234> the version in ubuntu is marked as 0.2.0
<ali1234> xfce git seems to be on 0.1.13
<ali1234> i don't understand :(
<sidi-valencia> oh you guys probably got a version bump from mr_pouit's patch
<sidi-valencia> is it the -pulse version? it would explain the different version number
<ali1234> yes
<sidi-valencia> then i guess its normal
<ali1234> where does that come from?
<sidi-valencia> so the problem was gtk_init before fork?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> "a" problem, anyway
<ali1234> but it still doesn't exlain why it worked before, and then stopped
<ali1234> but certainly a bug that needs fixing
<sidi-valencia> it doesnt explain anything
<sidi-valencia> at all
<ali1234> i know, but meh
<sidi-valencia> it shouldnt make a difference
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed-pulse <- so this is in fact a fork
<knome> sidi-valencia, nice to see you back and working on things!
<sidi-valencia> knome, not really
<sidi-valencia> please
<sidi-valencia> dont say that
<sidi-valencia> :D
<sidi-valencia> it pressures me
<sidi-valencia> :D
<knome> sidi-valencia, yess...
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, kind of
<sidi-valencia> xfce4-volumed is old crappy unmaintained software
 * knome wants to make sidi empathise
<knome> well at least you're around, and talking
<sidi-valencia> haha
<sidi-valencia> :)
<ali1234> there's no "kind of" - it says it's a fork right on the LP page :)
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, i dont know what to say. this story is very very weird
<knome> the first step to contributions ;)
<sidi-valencia> knome, im writing SandboxUtils and im appreciative of any sanity tests on the build process
 * knome knows a bit too little about that
<sidi-valencia> its just some random app
<sidi-valencia> build it and type commands in the README
<sidi-valencia> it does *nothing* anyway
<sidi-valencia> it doesnt even sandbox anything
<knome> lol
<knome> i guess i can look at that later
<ali1234> brainwash: would you like to check if xfsettingsd also forks after gtk_init()?
<ali1234> so... daemon mode got moved to after gtk_init to support using gtk to parse command line
<sidi-valencia> bbl
<ali1234> although i don't see why tbh
<ali1234> it's only using glib
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> why does it even use fork() to go daemon?
<ali1234> "It seems that gtk_init connect to dbus session. Currently, it is called before fork, i.e. parent process. Parent process quit after the checking gui enable. So dbus session become disconnected."
<ali1234> i bet this is the problem
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, anyway command line will be exactly the same before and after the fork??
<sidi-valencia> i use fork because i want to detach from the terminal
<sidi-valencia> and you shouldnt setsid without fork in case you're already detached
<sidi-valencia> cant setsid if youre a process group leader
<sidi-valencia> whatever that means
<sidi-valencia> posix obscurities
<sidi-valencia> anyways, you have to fork+setsid because, erm, that's life :D
<ali1234> hmm, as i suspected, xfsettingsd also calls gtk_init (and also opens a dbus connection) before forking
<ali1234> i will look at what gnome-settings-daemon does i guess
<ali1234> gnome-settings-daemon doesn't fork, anywhere
<ali1234> or if it does, it uses some glib function to do it
<brainwash> ali1234: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-appfinder/commit/?id=4a065a10945c72c985e254ff1ef13df188f3e11e
<ali1234> daemon mode was removed from gnome-settings-daemon because "it confuses dbus"
<sidi-valencia> google "fork before gtk_init"?
<ali1234> brainwash: what is that?
<ali1234> okay, i think i understand what is happening
<ali1234> normally gtk_init() does not connect to dbus
<ali1234> however, overlay scrollbar is implemented as a preload library
<ali1234> *it* almost certainly connects to dbus
<ali1234> so if enabled, gtk_init() now will connect to dbus earlier than normal
<ali1234> then when you fork, dbus gets "confused" and bad things happen
<ali1234> it might not be overlay scrollbar, itmight be some other ubuntu hack
<ali1234> like appmenus for example
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it is UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<ali1234> unsetting it, and then running the volumed fixes the problem
<ali1234> so this is in fact the same old xfsettingsd bug, with a slightly different way to get to the same problem
<brainwash> aha
<ali1234> so now we can fix both these problems properly :)
<brainwash> the linked commit fixed the problem for the appfinder
<ali1234> that probably causes the child process to open a new dbus connection rather than reusing the gtk one
<ali1234> so fix was a side effect
<brainwash> yes, it's a side effect
<ali1234> so fixing bug 1307657 would fix this
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<sidi-valencia> so the fix is sudo aptitude purge ubuntu*?
<sidi-valencia> :D
<ali1234> i can almost guarantee that xvd is hanging on a dbus call to get the keyboard layout from x server
<ali1234> and yes
<ali1234> (but we already knew that, just didn't know why)
<ali1234> so i think we should go through and fix all the gtk_init() before fork() in all xfce software
<ali1234> but i'm not sure of the best way to do it
<sidi-valencia> now i still have a question
<sidi-valencia> why on earth do i use gtk_init??
<ali1234> well -pulse uses it to parse command line
<sidi-valencia> it was here before
<sidi-valencia> i dont remember why i use it
<sidi-valencia> i think its just out of convenience
<ali1234> yeah but after the fork() which is fine
<sidi-valencia> why did they move it?
<sidi-valencia> what was the rationale?
<ali1234> so that gtk_init(argv, argc); would work
<sidi-valencia> and how is vanilla XFCE?
<ali1234> i can show you the commit
<sidi-valencia> but fork does not clear argc/argv, does it??
<ali1234> no, but they added a --no-daemon command line
<ali1234> not much point parsing that after you alread went daemon
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mrpouit/xfce4-volumed-pulse/master/revision/53#src/main.c
<ali1234> mr_pouit: you broke it again :)
<ali1234> there are ways to parse the command line without calling gtk_init though
<ali1234> we should probably do that
<sidi-valencia> oh
<ali1234> wait
<sidi-valencia> really
<ali1234> actually
<ali1234> i think it's already doing that with glib
<ali1234> so i dunno why gtk_init() got moved
<sidi-valencia> but thats not a reason. i have a --no-daemon option they can just change the name of my app instead
<ali1234> maybe so that gtk gets gtk specific command lines earlier
<sidi-valencia> of my app's command line
<ali1234> yeah, i think you;re right
<ali1234> i don't know what's going on here
<ali1234> maybe it was just a silly mistake; it happens
<sidi-valencia> it is just a silly mistake
<sidi-valencia> in fact the original change
<sidi-valencia> did not anticipate at all the changes made to gtk_init by Canonical
<sidi-valencia> but i think now that there is a reason why it happens more often with the ubuntu codebase than other distros ;P
<ali1234> absolutely, it's because of the weird gtk plugins they made that aren't thread safe
<ali1234> or rather, fork() safe
<sidi-valencia> because when you do undocumented hack-ish changes here and there only testing with your own packages, but having dependencies based on other hackers then at some point some of them play poorly. I must say kudos to you ali1234 because i would never have identified the origin of this bug as quickly (in fact im a bit jealous ;) )
<sidi-valencia> i know xfce4-volumed is terribly dirty software... yet it somehow gets used
<ali1234> we have this problem a lot
<sidi-valencia> i think we should make sure to identify exactly whats wrong with it and ruin the life of the original author (aka me) until he pushes the *proper* fix rather than ubuntu patches
<sidi-valencia> im very very grateful to mr_pouit for his pulse patch. but there should be no other ubuntu/xubuntu change to vanilla xfce software than that
<ali1234> well the xfce4-volumed is fine, it's the -pulse version that is broken :)
<sidi-valencia> because then i get bug reports that i cant make sense of ;)
<sidi-valencia> yeah but its not the -pulse code that breaks
<sidi-valencia> its the *other* changes
<ali1234> yeah
<sidi-valencia> which dont seem justified, which i dont know about and which could be done more neatly
<ali1234> still, this is why i reported the bug on lp, not xfce bugs
<ali1234> i knew all along it was something ubuntu did
<sidi-valencia> (for instance i could upstream that daemon() syscall if asked why i should do it, and i could also use --no-daemon rather than --no-daemonize or whatever i have)
<ali1234> because it worked before
<sidi-valencia> yeah well im only subscribed to LP actually ;p
<ali1234> i didnt even know there were two versions of this software
<sidi-valencia> this app uses launchpad for bug reports, as far as i know
<sidi-valencia> yeah its about time i merge mr_pouit 's code
<ali1234> -pulse does, but i reported against the ubuntu package, not the upstream software (which i didn't know existed)
<sidi-valencia> but guys please always report on the XFCE bugzilla or devel ML when you patch Xfce
<sidi-valencia> whatever it is, unless it's literally just libubuntusomething
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, i just meant that im subscribed everywhere anyway. im not blaming you at all for reporting the bug haha
<ali1234> yeah, kudos for actually paying attention to distro bugs. a lot of devs would just say "report it on upstream" (and then close it for being distro specific)
<ali1234> and especially given you don't even use ubuntu...
<sidi-valencia> do you have pointers to the ubuntu code that causes DBus calls in gtk init?
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, you guys write amazing software for me
<sidi-valencia> so i want my software to work for you
<sidi-valencia> i hate canonical but i love xubuntu
<ali1234> something in here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/unity-gtk-module/utopic/view/head:/src/main.c
<ali1234> is what cuases it
<ali1234> unity-gtk-module is loaded if UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=1 and then it "hijacks" menus and exports them on dbus
<ali1234> it's how they implement global menus
<sidi-valencia> https://gitorious.org/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/c0400bb599e6a57a46274a4ea3b550365577c93c
<sidi-valencia> very interesting
<sidi-valencia> so anyone using gtk_init should fork first or expect trouble
<bluesabre> knome: ping
<sidi-valencia> i asked on #gtk+ for some wisdom about this
<ali1234> yeah, there are loads of references to such bugs. basically gtk_init() before fork() is a bad idea, even if it usually works
<ali1234> okay simply moving the call to gtk_init() fixes it, and no side effects with arguments or anything
<sidi-valencia> great
<sidi-valencia> pls change the --no-daemonize if need be
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, thanks again. you did awesome work.
<sidi-valencia> How did you identify the origin of the bug actually?
<ali1234> what brainwash said made something click
<sidi-valencia> hmm
<sidi-valencia> brainwash, how did you come up with what you said? :D
<ali1234> actually cos i noticed that the old version has the fork after init
<ali1234> so i tried swapping them just at random to see what would happen
<ali1234> we've had this problem before but never really figured out why it happened.. it just happened at random
<ali1234> and then randomly got fixed
<ali1234> and i have quite a lot of pointless knowledge about how ubuntu hacks work
<ali1234> because they tend to break everything
<ochosi> holy crap, so much backlog...
<ali1234> tl;dr every xfce app that calls fork() after gtk_init() needs fixing
<ali1234> this includes xfsettingsd and xfce4-volumed-pulse
<ali1234> i just put in a MR for the latter
<sidi-valencia> yeah
<sidi-valencia> great
<sidi-valencia> good job
<sidi-valencia> i'd love so badly to put up a Xubuntu-like team on another distro...
<sidi-valencia> if you guys werent losing time over ubuntu upkeep who knows what you'd be up to? :D
<bluesabre> losing time over gnome upkeep
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> and/or gtk
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/458238/how-to-revert-from-gtk3-to-gtk2-indicators-in-xfce4-panel
<ochosi> hope we'll be able to replace the indicators with xfce panel plugins sometime in the not so far future
<ali1234> anyone want to add anything to that?
<sidi-valencia> bluesabre, this is unity upkeep
<sidi-valencia> gtk upkeep is costly enough but what does unity have to do with us? ;)
<sidi-valencia> correct me if im wrong but Xfce still uses only GTK2 right?
<ochosi> it does, but gtk3 dropped lots of stuff lately and introduced some new things that will make some of our core apps a bit weird/borked
<bluesabre> parole is full gtk3, some other components compile as gtk2 or gtk3
<sidi-valencia> oh i see
<ali1234> sidi-valencia: do you have indicators in arch?
<bluesabre> brainwash: poke
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed
<bluesabre> I'm assuming this also handles the positioning, and is probably tested? :)
<bluesabre> and do you suspect this is related?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1300153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300153 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "login Screen is not showing correctly" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: i haven't gotten around to testing it tbh
<ali1234> that bug doesn't look related
<ali1234> or rather, fixing the wallpaper won't fix it
<ali1234> basically gtk-greeter is not multimonitor aware... at all
<bluesabre> that bug is single-display
<ali1234> ok then in that case it is definitely not related
<bluesabre> but I hope to fix the multimonitor stuff with the next release
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> brainwash' patch just makes it draw the wallpaper spanning monitors rather than once per monitor (even if they overlap)
<ali1234> as i understand it, anyway
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, sudo make uninstall works for that guy over ~ askubuntu
<ali1234> i have not tested it either
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, libindicator? that stuff from 2010 from Ubuntu?
<bluesabre> ah
<ali1234> sidi-valencia: oh really? okay then
<bluesabre> he had mentioned improper zooming and positioning at one point
<bluesabre> I also have not tested it
<ali1234> yes, of the wallpaper
<sidi-valencia> it'll erase the files regardless of whether they were created by his install though. it just removes files where it would have put them
<ali1234> yeah, not all software has uninstall though
<sidi-valencia> with autotools i think it should be.
<bluesabre> anybody with an encrypted home and multiple languages want to verify if this is fixed in trusty?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1002706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002706 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Language setting ignored" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-01
<Unit193> knome, knome, knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule topic?
<sidi-valencia> is it really gonna be a unicorn?
<Unit193> sidi-valencia: I wanted the red faced monkey. :(
<sidi-valencia> red-shanked douc?
 * sidi-valencia might be too much of an aficionado when it comes to cryptic monkeys
<brainwash> bluesabre: right, I did not change anything which could improve multi monitor support
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<brainwash> select a wallpaper which does not match the aspect ratio of your screen
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<Unit193> knome: Danke. :)
<knome> np
<knome> back to hacking with a wordpress plugin
<elfy> ochosi brainwash ok so got around to purging and redoing the ppa - and JUST doing xfpm - made no difference - still black screen
<brainwash> elfy: got it still installed?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> edit /usr/bin/xflock4 and add "sleep 5" at the start
<brainwash> after shebang + header comment and actual code
<elfy> just make the screen bright enough ... 
<elfy> why does it do that !
<brainwash> what?
<elfy> dim the damned screen all the time 
 * elfy hates laptops 
<elfy> anyway - so sleep to be first line of code?
<elfy> or last
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> before the actual code part starts
<brainwash> this should delay the screen locking on wake up
<elfy> k - then do I need to do anything but close the lid to test?
<brainwash> yes
<elfy> ok - give us a clue then :) 
<elfy> edited the file 
<brainwash> ah, uhm, no
<brainwash> just save and close the lid
<elfy> :D
<elfy> ok that was new - restarted - cursor appeared then disappeared - black screen still 
<brainwash> was the desktop visible on wake up?
<brainwash> for like.. 5 sec :)
<elfy> no 
<elfy> nor is it ever 
<elfy> I see nothing at all till I use mouse or something - then I see unlock password dialogue
<brainwash> even if you move the mouse immediately after opening the lid?
<elfy> trying 
<elfy> took ~5 secs to see dialogue
<brainwash> ah, so the screen is already blank before even locking it
<elfy> it is for me yes 
<brainwash> it's getting even more mysterious :)
<elfy> that was always the case before - restart from lid close - black screeen - move mouse - unlock dialogue - black screen is what I see
<brainwash> can you also try with light-locker disable and xscreensaver instead?
<brainwash> same setup
<elfy> time's caught up with me - back in a while - will look then
<brainwash> alright
<pleia2> http://ubuntuportal.com/2014/05/xubuntu-14-04-lts-trusty-tahr-video-and-screenshots.html
<knome> another "review" that copy-pastes the release announcement
<knome> and the video isn't exactly informative either
<knome> well at least from the looks of the start ;)
<pleia2> after install it explores a lot
<knome> yeah, but exploring is meh
<knome> i guess some people like it, but what about let them explore themself?
<pleia2> because then they'll say AMAGAD I AHTE THIS NEW MENU
<knome> :)
<pleia2> this review actually shows how nice it is to find stuff :)
<knome> that'd be better than the lousy jazz tune
<pleia2> and how to add the bottom panel back
 * knome shrugs
<amigamagic> The start menu is so good for people, that MS itself will make it come back in a next W8.1 big update or service pack (the rumors say that it should be around september of this year).. So, I think whisker menu is a very great addition to the xubuntu distro, at least for all the people that come from Win XP, Vista, 7, etc.
<amigamagic> One of the things on which whisker menu could improve, is its default appearence. It's a little too flat, with only two colors that could be changed in a theme: white and grey. Personally, I would have added a third color to differentiate between the top grey bar (where there is the user name) and the right grey bar (where there are the program categories). The old WinXP start menu is much more colorful rich.
<knome> do we really need to refer to win XP all the time?
<knome> the comparison doesn't hold really
<amigamagic> I don't really want to compare it to WinXP or other os, but from a graphic designer point of view, it's better to have more theming options
<knome> from a graphic designed point of view, it's better to have one style that works well.
<amigamagic> People have different tastes, so I think more customization is better.
<amigamagic> And it's very unlikely that could exist a SINGLE style that could appeal everyone.
<knome> if xfce allowed all customization anybody ever asked for, it would be a mess
<amigamagic> If you give the theme designer more possibilities, what harm that could do?
<knome> a lot of ugly themes.
<amigamagic> or a lot of beautiful ones
<knome> i haven't seen that happen with applications/stuff that allows a lot of options
<amigamagic> strange... I see it often... Take Firefox: you can theme it as you want. Chrome is the same thing. Win8 gives you few options, but will let you change at least the colours of the borders and taskbar.
<knome> we allow changing a lot of the appearance options already
<amigamagic> and that's good
<knome> if you want to control every inch of your appearance, install KDE
<amigamagic> I don't like it
<elfy> it appears to me you don't like xubuntu much either
<amigamagic> you are wrong
<knome> i see where elfy is coming from.
<amigamagic> if I didn't like it, I hadn't installed it in my office
<elfy> knome: if the XPL vote is going to run for 24 hours - what are you using to do the vote?
<knome> elfy, we'll start off with the meeting.
<knome> if one applicant has got more than 50% of the votes from all possible members, we'll stop there.
<elfy> right
<knome> otherwise, we should continue the vote on the mailing list
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> except you can't private vote on that ... 
<knome> should you?
<elfy> you can with meetbot
<elfy> assuming it actually works 
<knome> i guess my question is: do we really *need* private voting?
<elfy> some might want to do it that way
<knome> do we really need that kind of privacy inside the team?
<elfy> I don't - I'm just saying :)
<knome> if you aren't willingly to publicly express who you are voting for, you'd have a hard time working with people
<elfy> as I said - I've not got an issue - I'm just making the point
<elfy> brainwash: unlocks fine with xscreensaver
<brainwash> elfy: is the screen blank before xscreensaver's unlock dialog appears?
<elfy> blank - with just cursor - touch trackpad or something - unlock dialogue
<elfy> doesn't appear top be suspending though - just blanking the screen
<brainwash> all the time or just in this case?
<brainwash> can't you tell if it's suspending successfully?
<elfy> all the time
<elfy> it's not suspending 
<elfy> so manually suspending from menu - suspends - comes back to desktop - then goes to xscrn and dialogue
<brainwash> 5 sec delay, right?
<elfy> didn't check - but sounds about right
<brainwash> so it comes back to the desktop which is visible for about 5sec until it moves on to the lock screen?
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> the same thing should happen when light-locker is used (in this test scenario)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> if it worked - which it doesn't - if it did we'd not be testing it :p
<brainwash> but I cannot explain this at all :/
<brainwash> other than light-locker doing some bad stuff on its own
<brainwash> maybe we can get some more testers
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for doing all the tests so far :)
<brainwash> I guess you can revert the changes
<elfy> that's ok - it's what I do to earn my ethercookies :p
<elfy> well - tbh - the lappy doesn't get used much - and I never suspend anyway, so anything we're doing I don't notice :)
<brainwash> but we've learned that lock screen apps need the most testing (see unity's new lock screen and light-locker)
<brainwash> things can easily break and cause trouble security wise
<elfy> indeed
<brainwash> ali1234: xfce4-power-manager seems to be affect too by the daemonize problem
<brainwash> affected
<brainwash> do we need some sort of meta report?
<sidi-valencia> brainwash, i would check ALL xfce daemons upstream and in Ubuntu
<sidi-valencia> and send a mail to the ubuntu devel ML to point out the issue if it's been observed outside xubuntu
<brainwash> yes ofc
<sidi-valencia> meta report is a good idea ;)
<sidi-valencia> also these reports look so sexy, like something important's going on
<sidi-valencia> ;P
<brainwash> outside? mmh, only ubuntu ships wonky gtk modules
 * sidi-valencia feels bored at work, sorry.
<sidi-valencia> brainwash, still the fork after init is not a good thing.
<sidi-valencia> and i meant outside Xubuntu, like Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, etc
<sidi-valencia> pretty much anything using gtk_init and fork, so you should probably make it wide. And I would also report the bug against ubuntu and tell them to stop messing with gtk_init() though that obviously is not good for community relations and will be ignored
 * sidi-valencia stops trolling now, back to code.
<brainwash> ok, ali1234 will gladly take care of this :)
<sidi-valencia> ahah
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-02
<bluesabre> brainwash: poke
<sidi-valencia> can I help you poke brainwash ? :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: sidi-valencia is a pro-poker :)
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, what daemonize problem? we could fix that in xfpm straight away i guess
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 973778
<ubottu> bug 973778 in Light Display Manager "Unable to connect to Xfce Power Manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973778
<brainwash> and bug 1239014
<ubottu> bug 1239014 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd unable to daemonize properly when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239014
<brainwash> and bug 1314782
<ubottu> bug 1314782 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "multimedia keys don't work when xfce4-volumed is run in daemon mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314782
<brainwash> appfinder 4.11 is not affected anymore, but we still ship 4.10
<ochosi> brainwash: meh, that is really long bugreport, why not just link me to the crucial/interesting part?
<brainwash> the volumed one is the interesting one I guess
<ali1234> ochosi: it's the fork before gtk_init bug
<ali1234> if a daemon forks after calling gtk_init it can hang for a variety of reasons
<sidi-valencia> ochosi, and they're such bosses that they figured it out straight away
 * sidi-valencia pokes himself, for the fun
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> ali1234: so what would be the ideal solution to that problem?
<sidi-valencia> does xfce4-volumed work on the locker screen in Xub?
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, fork before gtk_init as instructed by the doc.
<ali1234> ochosi: that &
<ochosi> sidi-valencia: i guess not, because there's no music playback on the lockscreen in xubuntu
<ochosi> so it wouldn't make any sense
<brainwash> it's a different vt
<ochosi> (remember, it's in a different VT, so your current seat becomes inactive hence music playback stops)
<sidi-valencia> ochosi, well when i locked/suspended i had the music on when reopening the lappy
<Unit193> ali1234: Seen https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10804 ? :)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10804 in General "Overlay video sometimes prevents screen area from updating after video application is closed" [Normal,New]
<sidi-valencia> ochosi, my computer is so cool it plays music across VTs
<ochosi> sidi-valencia: it continues after unlocking
<ochosi> then you're maybe in the audio group
<brainwash> or not using pulseaudio at all?
<sidi-valencia> not using PA
<brainwash> :)
<sidi-valencia> and in audio
<Unit193> Good choice.
<sidi-valencia> you guys are geniuses
<sidi-valencia> i was thinking of switching to PA
<sidi-valencia> and upgrading xvd
<ochosi> then you're an exception rather than the rule ;)
<sidi-valencia> maybe i should code some DBus api for light-locker to talk to it?
<ali1234> sidi-valencia: the per-seat audio stuff is handled by the console kit stuff and relies on cooperation fro pulseaudio
<Unit193> Yey, for another exception.
<sidi-valencia> ochosi, i do want to try out PA one day without all the Ubuntu FUD
<ochosi> yeah, actually it's not bad
<ochosi> i hardly ever use the advantages of PA (being able to individually adjust volumes per app, etc)
<ochosi> but it's stable and it works
<brainwash> running pulseaudio as system service also works
<ochosi> i guess most of our problems would be solved by light-locker 2.0, whenever we get to that
<ochosi> (although i remember sidi-valencia making a point against locking on the same VT)
<sidi-valencia> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2007-April/007496.html btw
<sidi-valencia> on why you should fork before doing anything else ;P
<sidi-valencia> yeah ochosi. i will keep the current branch personally, feels more secure ;)
<sidi-valencia> (well my admin password is ridiculously short anyway, *coughs*)
<bluesabre> brainwash: so, can you explain exactly what the zoomed branch does?  I'm wondering if it should be included in 1.8.5 or if it will be part of the 1.9 series
<brainwash> bluesabre: it implements the resize style "zoom" correctly
<brainwash> but the question is, should "zoom" be used in the first place?
<brainwash> I vote for including it in 1.9 then
<ochosi> yeah, i also wouldn't mind to give this more thought
<ochosi> although i think that zoom generally is a good mode, we also use it in xfdesktop by default and it works well there
<brainwash> it's nice to have the same resize style for the greeter and xfce desktop (-> seamless transition)
<bluesabre> we can also implement different modes that can be control with the conffile
<bluesabre> (for 1.9)
<brainwash> yes, that was my plan initially
<ochosi> yeah, but seems like a bit over the top to me
<ochosi> also, these sort of things are tricky, as the greeter is always systemwide
<elfy> hello peeps
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<brainwash> ochosi: but configuring it systemwide is a nice feature
<bluesabre> but I do feel zoomed is a sane default :)
<brainwash> you should at least test it :P
<ochosi> yeah but different users on a system might want different settings
<bluesabre> and we can use the code from xfsettings to implement multimonitor in a minimal fashion
<ochosi> hence conflict
<bluesabre> brainwash: I will when I merge it
<bluesabre> just wanted to know *when* to merge it :)
<brainwash> they might want different indicators.. or font size.. or..
<bluesabre> yeah, login screen is not for users
<bluesabre> its for the admin
<brainwash> so adding all the different styles does not cause any harm
<ochosi> yeah, or for distributors to set defaults
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, point taken
<ochosi> so if we stick to zoom by default, we can merge that for 1.8 and put multiple modes on the roadmap for 1.9
<ochosi> (also havent had time to test yet though, tbh)
<bluesabre> brainwash: great work, finally tested it, it works well
<bluesabre> and merged
<bluesabre> if there are no complaints by friday, I'll do the 1.8.5 release and then start the 1.9 branch
<bluesabre> *sunday
<bluesabre> not friday
<bluesabre> silly sean
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> yeah, friday is today :)
<GridCube> elfy, whenever you have the time can you guide me to understand this trello thing and what im supposed to do with it?
<elfy> I've always got time for you :)
<elfy> especially about now :p
<GridCube> P: alright then
<elfy> I'll just go and get a fresh tea ;)
<elfy> GridCube: so basically it's a collaborative board 
<GridCube> yes, i understand that far
<elfy> from the left you can see that I've set up the things I know we'll be doing 
<GridCube> i don't understand what the topics are meant to be
<elfy> ok - so from left - I've got 2 To Do boards - testing calls and the other
<elfy> the testing calls one I've set up against the release schedule - each card is one task - with a date it's due
<elfy> do you see that
<elfy> or am I misunderstanding what you mean by topic?
<GridCube> yes, basically the first to do list is pretty obvious, but the second, i dont understand what im suppose to do 
<GridCube> you said you needed someone to grab the version numbers of the testcase applications right? where is that topic to do?
<elfy> ok - well pick the 2nd from top - package testcases and open it 
<elfy> GridCube: I've removed that 
<GridCube> oh
<elfy> did you do it?
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> ok - it's not wasted :)
<elfy> GridCube: so in the to do board - there is an autotesting -packages card - open that - there's a link to the spec for autopilot - you can doublecheck the versions of packages there 
<elfy> I spoke to balloons yesterday about putting versions on testcases - didn't work for them, but I'm not convinced that it won't work for us yet
<elfy> GridCube: when you're ready ping me - I'll talk you through the next task the qa team have to do - this one is date dependent
<GridCube> elfy, i dont understand what i have to do
<elfy> did you open the wiki linked from the card? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Autopilot
<GridCube> i opened that wiki
<GridCube> and it has words, i understand some of them
<elfy> that has versions - double check the versions on that against what you've got 
<elfy> yea - I'm the same with autopilot ... means little to me as well ;)
<GridCube> so i set up a 14.04 virtualbox and check those numbers against the ones in the table?
<elfy> I thought you had those numbers already?
<GridCube> no, as i said, i never understood what you wanted me to do
<elfy> ok :)
<elfy> forget all about that then for the time being :)
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> so - let's start again from the to do board - 2'nd card down Package testcases
<elfy> click that and you'll see the card back
<GridCube> alright
<elfy> then there is a check list 
<GridCube> card is that popup page
<elfy> yep 
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> took me a while to realise that's the card back ... 
<elfy> so - there's 4 tasks - the order matches the order that the calls to the testers will go out 
<elfy> (it'll make a whole lot more sense when our package tracker matches that)
<elfy> so what we need to do is open a testcase from the tracker and check it against the actual package - should be really quick to do - hopefully any testcase bugs got ironed out last cycle
<elfy> but what I am trying to ensure is that when a bug gets reported - it is a real bug - people were good at reporting testcase bugs on the package page
<elfy> does that make sense logically so far
<GridCube> what tracker is that? iso.qa?
<elfy> package.qa
<elfy> GridCube: actually look here http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e
<elfy> that matches the trello cards - and is what the package tracker will look like next week
<GridCube> im sorry elfy but i really dont understand what any of this means :(
<GridCube> i feel really dumb
<elfy> that's ok 
<elfy> nah 
<elfy> I'm often not too good at explaining stuff that I've been thinking about for months
<elfy> if you look at the card back checklist - it says check Xubuntu optionals against current version
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> so - pretending that the pad is the package tracker for the moment - the first one in Xubuntu optionals is Catfish
<elfy> so open the actual testcase for catfish and run through it with catfish - just to make sure that the testcase is spot on
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1559/info
<elfy> is the testcase 
<elfy> does that make sense?
<GridCube> so check that the testcase makes sense, any error in the testcase itself would be the problem at this stage?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> that's what we need to do - then report testcase bugs so we can fix them before we do any testing calls
<GridCube> i do this from a clean 14.04 install?
<elfy> 14.10 
<GridCube> alright
<elfy> I keep one for package testcases
<elfy> there are images up for 14.10 now at the iso.qa tracker
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> we have plenty of time for this package stuff - the first call for any of them is may 12th
<elfy> at the moment qa is going to be all about making sure the foundations are solid
<GridCube> its the same for 32 and 64?
<elfy> yep
<GridCube> ok, im fetching the 32b image now :)
<elfy> mmm - packages do you mean?
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> yep - packages are the same 
<elfy> many of the cards on trello you'll not do anything with
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> and if you think of something that's not there that could be you should be able to add it 
<elfy> likewise - if there is something on there that you're doing - you can put your name against it - so the work's not done twie
<elfy> s/twice
<elfy> GridCube: just try to move one of the cards to a different board - as far as I know you should be able to do that
<GridCube> done
<elfy> cool - just checking - you can leave it there - we're doing it now anyway :)
<elfy> now click the card so you see the card back again
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> then - on the right Members - click that and you get a list of us - click you and me 
<GridCube> done
<elfy> k - now other people like Unit193 can see we're doing something with that 
<GridCube> ok :)
<GridCube> bbiab making foods
<elfy> ok 
<GridCube> knome,
<GridCube> sorry
<GridCube> elfy, 
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> im back
<elfy> wb :)
<GridCube> theres anything else we need see or i just need to download and check the testcases one by one according that pad
<elfy> that's the current job in hand 
<GridCube> ok :)
<elfy> watch the trello board, if something is important it's have a red label - like the one you added us to
<elfy> and date sensitive stuff will have a date :)
<GridCube> :) makes sense
 * elfy will wait for GridCube to find a testcase bug :)
<GridCube> P:
<elfy> then elfy will get GridCube to pull the testcase branch and change it :)
<GridCube> we will see
<elfy> I learnt :)
<elfy> and if I can do it ... 
<elfy> GridCube: one more thing - can you check that you can add a card 
<elfy> I'm sort of afk for a while now
<GridCube> done
<elfy> GridCube: cool - just wanted to make sure you could - you can delete it now 
<GridCube> okay
<elfy> or archive - from the card back
<GridCube> done
<GridCube> deleted :)
<GridCube> elfy, if i find a bug in the test case against what should i report it?
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<elfy> make sure the testcase number is in the main text area
<GridCube> (like in the catfish testcase it says "click the icon right to the search box a menu should appear" the gear menu is at the far right, before it at the rigth of the search box there are two icons that change how the search results are shown
<GridCube> )
<GridCube> is that worthy of a report?
<elfy> yep do the bug - and as much detail as possible - line number in the testcase is an enormous help
<elfy> GridCube: absolutely it is - someone would end up putting the bug on the package tracker
<elfy> then I end up grinding my teeth a lot sorting real bugs from testcase ones :)
<GridCube> elfy, a title like this is ok? testcase for catfish ID 1559 needs to be reworded
<elfy> Id' make it simpler - it doesn't matter too much - the detail is in the main text - I'd put error catfish testcase 
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> when you do the report - at the bottom - there are more options - tag it xubuntu :)
<GridCube> elfy, can i suggest to add a test to the testcase?
<elfy> which one?
<GridCube> creating a screenshot and searching for it should show its thumbnail
<GridCube> if you change the way search results are shown
<elfy> oic - adding a test to the catfish one 
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> yea - add it to the bug report :)
<GridCube> :D
<elfy> I read that as a completely new testcase, was wondering what we'd missed :)
<GridCube> :) wooo
 * elfy waits for it to drop into his mailbox :)
<GridCube> P: i added the link to trello P:
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1315491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1315491 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "catfish testcase error" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> when you've got your head around all this stuff - then we can look at you fixing testcases :)
<elfy> thanks GridCube :)
<elfy> GridCube: that's just right as a testcase bug - means whoever fixes it doesn't need to go looking too hard :)
<elfy> which generally up to now has been slickymaster and me - and slickymaster is going to have enough on his plate with docs
<sidi-valencia> TypeError: can't use a string pattern on a bytes-like object
<sidi-valencia> light-locker-settings crashing on this
<sidi-valencia> anyone aware of it and what to do?
<knome> sidi-valencia, poke ochosi
<ochosi> maybe bluesabre will be able to help you with that
<knome> :P
<ochosi> i'm not as python proficient
<ochosi> what python version are you using?
<ali1234> it means python 3 ate your lunch
<ochosi> i dunno what python version it gets run with in xubuntu as we ship both
<ali1234> going to need a full backtrace to fix it though
<brainwash> bug 1313838
<ubottu> bug 1313838 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker-settings crashes on start with a TypeErorr" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313838
<ali1234> not the same bug
<brainwash> I know
<brainwash> but a crash too
<brainwash> sidi-valencia: you should file a bug report :)
<sidi-valencia> 3.,4 i assume?
<sidi-valencia> i was hoping someone knew it already
<sidi-valencia> didnt do any decent amount of python in 5 years...
<sidi-valencia> http://pastebin.com/hDsZaCdb
<ali1234> ah, using pipes
<ali1234> try changing line 349 to screensaver_output = self.run_command('xset q', check_output=True).encode('utf8')
<ali1234> or possibly decode
<ali1234> but you're just going to hit more errors. this source is not py3 safe
<brainwash> what is the cause then?
<brainwash> I mean why is this not a general problem?
<sidi-valencia> thats magic ali1234 
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, object has no attribute encode
<sidi-valencia> i dont really care actually, i was asking just in case
<sidi-valencia> if you need me to report tell me n ill do it later
<sidi-valencia> watching stuff now
<ali1234> brainwash: it is a general problem when you try to run old code in python3, there are several PEPs about it
<brainwash> ali1234: but light-locker-settings is not old code
<sidi-valencia> ali1234, i see so i could use python2 as a wrapper?
<sidi-valencia> or not
<ali1234> just use python2, yes
<ali1234> that's still the default on ubuntu
<brainwash> ah, thought that it's meant to be a python3 app
<ali1234> it's not. reading from a pipe and using the result as a string doesn't work in python 3 unless you explicitly specify the encoding
<ali1234> ð©
<brainwash> ok, but the goal was to port python2 apps to python3, so we can get rid of python2 :)
<ali1234> so fix it :)
<brainwash> mmh, maybe
<ali1234> just throw decode('utf-8') on the end of every byte array, before attempting to use it as a string
<brainwash> yes, already read about it
<ali1234> python 2 does it implicitly
<ali1234> python 3 does not
<sidi-valencia> no module named psutil
<sidi-valencia> and this is where i stop caring about setting my settings
<sidi-valencia> python2.7 isnt even meant to be supported anymore
<Unit193> There *may* even be a Python 2.8.
<drc> And Guido says "Last release of Python 2.7 (2.7.9) will be in May 2015. Time to move to 3.4, folks"
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<Unit193> I don't write the stuff, just use.
<drc> And the first script is always free....
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-03
<bluesabre> Python 2.7 EOL has been moved to 2020
<Unit193> That's good, I use stuff with py2.
<sidi-valencia> sad
<sidi-valencia> please dont write *new* code in py2 :(
<Unit193> I don't wite it, I use existing and hack on it.
<Logan_> Unit193: your hacking should include running 2to3 :P
<stormlink> anyone around?
<Logan_> stormlink: yeah, what's up?
<stormlink> I've been lurking in the dev list for some time now, I want to start actually helping around
<stormlink> not sure where to really start
<stormlink> I do Python
<Logan_> ali1234?
<jphilipz> hi all, just found a bug in xfce that effects xubuntu and wanted to bring it to your attention
<jphilipz> it involves thunar's calculation of file sizes
<jphilipz> thunar is dividing by 1000 rather than 1024 when calculating kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes
<jphilipz> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10864
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10864 in core "thunar incorrectly showing file sizes" [Critical,New]
<brainwash> interesting.. firefox launches significantly faster without irqbalance doing its magic in the background (sudo service irqbalance stop)
<brainwash> fresh boot mainly
<bluesabre> yay, I finally recreated the crash I've been trying to make knome do
<knome> yay ;)
<knome> so i don't need to?!
<brainwash> buglibre?
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> that stings
<bluesabre> :'(
<brainwash> :P
<knome> lol
<knome> i can though
<knome> i could do that relatively soon
<knome> wife's laptop is free
<brainwash> coding a menu editor seems to be a tough job
<bluesabre> I've got it now
<bluesabre> first I had to get rid of the xubuntu menu files
<bluesabre> the bug originates from the upstream xfce one
<brainwash> the default Xfce session one?
<bluesabre> /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<brainwash> how do they get mixed?
<bluesabre> dunno
<bluesabre> knome: latest commit should fix your issue
<bluesabre> (re: menulibre)
 * bluesabre downloads all ubuntu flavors for additional testing
<knome> with the broken menu file, or should not be able to reproduce?
<bluesabre> it probably won't work with the broken menu file
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> but it will not break future menu files
<bluesabre> I hardened the code
<bluesabre> so, the reason it crashes is because I was not giving the correct name to xfce-settings.directory
<bluesabre> so with the parent file, it was being added, and with the child file, it was being added again
<bluesabre> (with a different name)
<bluesabre> this caused gnome-menus to die
<knome> >__<
<bluesabre> and I never caught this before because I was using the xubuntu menu file
<bluesabre> >.<
<amigamagic> the shift-control-cursor_key thing with abiword was indeed a bug of the current 3.0.0 version: http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13596
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13596 in Editing - Key/Click Bindings "Shift-control text selection no longer works" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<sidi-valencia> https://github.com/Sidnioulz/SandboxUtils/tree/master/mockups/sfcd-autocompletion
<sidi-valencia> oops
<sidi-valencia> that was for shimmer
<amigamagic> anyway I think very few people use abiword instead of libreoffice write (maybe xubuntu should switch from abiword -> write?). I'm using it now (abiword) to write some notes, because I'm too lazy to install libreoffice... :D
<amigamagic> hey, people, do you know that linux kernel 3.13.x branch is now in its EOL stage (check https://www.kernel.org/)? This means no more support and bugfixes from kernel mantainers...  Shouldn't we switch to a supported stable branch like the 3.14.x one?
<brainwash> no, the ubuntu guys will maintain 3.13
<knome> amigamagic, we're not the team that supports the kernel whatsoever
<amigamagic> brainwash, so the ubuntu guys will mantain the kernel 3.13 line their self with stuff like bugfixes, security fixes, etc., albeit the main developers of the kernel don't support it anymore?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> it's a kernel with a custom config and ubuntu specific patches after all
<amigamagic> ok, thanks for the info. I read from the changelog that 3.14 kernel has a better support for last intel integrated gpu so I would like to try it on a machine (Intel Xeon with integrated intel GPU on the same die) that has some little graphics troubles with previous kernel.
<amigamagic> Do you think I can try 3.14 kernel on ubuntu?
<amigamagic> Is there some backport repository or something like that?
<bluesabre> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<bluesabre> unsupported, but better than installing yourself
<amigamagic> thanks bluesabre!
<bluesabre> when the next ubuntu release is available, it's kernel version will be available to trusty as well
<bluesabre> I used those packages in 13.10 because my laptop needed the newest
<amigamagic> sorry for the very ignorant question, but how can I install this on a ubuntu machine? linux-image-3.14.1-031401-generic_3.14.1-031401.201404141220_amd64.deb
<amigamagic> I double click on it and it does it all by himself?
<bluesabre> download each of the files for your architecture
<bluesabre> then open a terminal to your Downloads folder
<bluesabre> and do
<bluesabre> sudo dpkg -i linux*.deb
<bluesabre> also, grab the _all one as well
<bluesabre> this should cover any bases, including dkms modules
<amigamagic> very thanks, bluesabre ;)
<bluesabre> oh wait
<brainwash> but it does not include new firmware files
<bluesabre> don't grab the lowlatency ones
<bluesabre> right, but for most things they are set up with dkms, so they will be set up when the kernel is installed
<sidi-valencia> amigamagic, brainwash yes you should switch D:
<brainwash> distro? or what? :P
<sidi-valencia> ahah
<sidi-valencia> *i* did not say that
<sidi-valencia> kernel
<bluesabre> regardless, your previous kernel versions will remain installed, and you can switch between them in grub
<brainwash> ah, still running 3.11 on my main system
<amigamagic> brainwash, what's that new firmware files thing?
<sidi-valencia> amigamagic, there is a PPA somewhere from ubuntu-kernel with the latest kernels
<brainwash> amigamagic: ignore it right now
<brainwash> you might need some new firmware files if you are using brand new hardware
<brainwash> but the kernel install routine should tell you what's missing
<amigamagic> do you think something that now works with an ubuntu 12.04 lts distro, could break after installing the kernel 3.14 ?
<sidi-valencia> amigamagic, no?
<sidi-valencia> unless there are bugs, why would it break
<sidi-valencia> the two issues you can get are: bugs and no-longer-supported firmware
<amigamagic> I mean, some hardware that before worked and now it is not more recognized... It's possible?
<amigamagic> ethernet cards, gpu, etc.
<sidi-valencia> yes
<brainwash> everything is possible
<sidi-valencia> if there is a proprietary driver
<sidi-valencia> and they didnt update it
<sidi-valencia> it could be possible
<amigamagic> ok so I should only try... thanks
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1315716
<ubottu> bug 1315716 in thunar "Thunar: No confirmation prompt when force-deleting (SHIFT+DEL)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315716
<brainwash> the upstream report is targeting xfdesktop and not thunar
<elfy> then change one - obviously the same bug
<brainwash> mmh, the ubuntu one does not mention "desktop" at all
<brainwash> so I would assume that it is a general problem
<elfy> certainly don't get a confirmation here
<elfy> left a comment for them to read or ignore
<elfy> if they confirm I'll sort the packages out on it - if they don't I'll ask them to check again ;)
<brainwash> elfy: thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-04
<jhenke> good morning folks
<elfy> brainwash: told you it was the same bug ;)
<brainwash> elfy: yes, but it was not obvious in the first place
<elfy> it was to me 
<brainwash> :D
<elfy> I must say that the last year or so is starting to change my attitude to launchpad - up till working with the team here - launchpad to me was somewhere for people to report bugs pointlessly
<brainwash> pointlessly?
<elfy> yep - report bug - wait for it to be invalid
<brainwash> almost every report filed against Xfce components needs to be redirected upstream :/
<elfy> I'm not talking about now and us :)
<elfy> "up till working with the team here - launchpad to me was"
<brainwash> mmh
<elfy> they might get redirected upstream - but they do tend to get looked at
<brainwash> but the core problem remains, lack of developers upstream and downstream
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> so it would be awesome to have something like a hackathon or hack fest
<brainwash> to get people involved
<elfy> start setting one up then :)
<brainwash> I'm not able to organize something like that
<elfy> well - start with a mail to the list see if people have interest
<brainwash> ok, maybe
<brainwash> first I'll need a concept
<elfy> âthought you had that at 10:08 :p
<brainwash> for a virtual hack fest
<elfy> or perhaps 11:08 :)
<brainwash> tzzz
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> there is also the idea to reward people with digital currency to push the development of new features or fix pending major bugs
<brainwash> but doing it the "right" way isn't easy
<elfy> indeed 
<elfy> and who decides which to push
<brainwash> everything can and will go wrong :)
<elfy> yep 
<brainwash> so better don't change anything at all :/
<elfy> :)
<elfy> team PPA is more important to work out if you ask me
<brainwash> yes
 * elfy is confused why some people are reporting that the xfpm ppa fix works and others not
<brainwash> we can't tell right now, people might use different setups
<elfy> flailing around in the dark springs to mine
<elfy> s/mid
<brainwash> on top of that, the suspend/resume cycle is influenced by various factors too
<elfy> sigh - mind
<elfy> I'm not even sure why we went to lightlock - other than xcreensaver wasn't pretty
<brainwash> visual improvement
<elfy> then perhaps we should go back then 
<brainwash> light-locker 2.0 will get rid of the vt switching, so it will solve most problems
<elfy> though I suppose it is only people that lid close
<elfy> and will we get in time for 14.04.1 
<brainwash> closing the lid to suspend the laptop is quite popular :D
<elfy> apparently so ;)
<elfy> off to install unicorn - biab
<lderan> ochosi, bluesabre what shall i do regarding the mailing list email about the lightlocker settings translations?
<bluesabre> lderan: I can prepare a debian patch or new release for light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> I'll try to get to that today
<lderan> that is very awesome of you :)
<ali1234> hey everyone, i just thought of something
<ali1234> thunar has a daemon mode right?
<ali1234> and since ubuntu-desktop i've had at least one thunar crash
<ali1234> maybe gtk_init before fork causes the weird thunar crashes?
<brainwash> ali1234: do you think that all these reporters have also ubuntu/unity installed?
<ali1234> i don't know, but it is possible
<brainwash> the amount of reports is huge
<brainwash> we need to fix the daemonize problem anyway
<ali1234> yeah, do you fancy checking the thunar source for this problem?
<ali1234> brainwash: do you have all the fork() bug report numbers handy?
<ali1234> just need the app-chooser one now
<brainwash> ali1234: appfinder?
<ali1234> yes, that one
<brainwash> bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appfinder launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<ali1234> thanks
<brainwash> but the problem is fixed in version 4.11
<ali1234> yes, but not really if it still forks after gtk_init
<ali1234> it's just obscured, not really fixed
<brainwash> ah right
<ali1234> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-May/030715.html
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-27
<Unit193> gnumeric 1.12.22-1 uploaded, debian #782137
<ubottu> Debian bug 782137 in gnumeric "gnumeric: preinst script bails out too easily" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/782137
<OvenWerks> Unit193: xubuntu-core which icon themes does it include? It seems to not include xubuntu-icon-theme... or at least when I try to install a package that has xubuntu-icon-theme as it's only depends it seems to pull in more stuff.
<OvenWerks> Maybe I'm missing something.
<Unit193> adwaita-icon-theme, gnome-icon-theme, gnome-icon-theme-symbolic, hicolor-icon-theme, humanity-icon-theme, xubuntu-icon-theme
<Unit193> OvenWerks: What recommends?
<OvenWerks> none
<OvenWerks> ${misc:Depends} what would that grab?
<Unit193> Depends.
<Unit193> apt-cache show $pkg
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> Depends: xubuntu-icon-theme
<Unit193> What package?
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-icon-theme
<OvenWerks> We add about three or four icons on top of elementary-xfce-dark
<Unit193> So, apt-cache policy xubuntu-icon-theme ?
<OvenWerks> I'm not on the right boot... so xubuntu-icon-theme:
<OvenWerks>   Installed: 14.04.2
<OvenWerks>   Candidate: 14.04.2
<OvenWerks>   Version table:
<OvenWerks>  *** 14.04.2 0
<OvenWerks>         500 http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/universe amd64 Packages
<OvenWerks>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<OvenWerks> This is from 14.04, but the package I was looking at is the latest from bzr
<OvenWerks> I'm going to reboot
<OvenWerks> Unit193: Sorry, I was looking at the wrong package. It is our -look package that needs to be trimed.
<Unit193> \o/
<OvenWerks> Thats what comes from sleeping on things before acting. I have no idea why our look package drags extra icon themes in... and not our own.
<Unit193> Depends: gtk2-engines-murrine, murrine-themes (>= 0.98.2), libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.11-2ubuntu7); Recommends: plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio, ubuntustudio-wallpapers, elementary-icon-theme, ubuntustudio-sounds; Conflicts: ubuntustudio-artwork, ubuntustudio-theme
<Unit193> You seem to have several packages all split apart.
<OvenWerks> we don't use murrine either.
<OvenWerks> or sounds
<OvenWerks> Seems like time for some clean up
<Unit193> Spring cleaning.
<OvenWerks> I don't know why they are all split into bits. I think some of those are even all the same src.
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi :)
<elfy> so - xfpm, built that, shows when I tell it to, doesn't crash
<ochosi> ok, so the plugin's icon also shows up?
<elfy> if it's turned on yes 
<elfy> systray icon I assume you mean
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> the panel plugin
<ochosi> you have to manually add it to the panel if it isnt there yet
<ochosi> aka step 8 ;)
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> no icon then
<elfy> so the one I have sitting in notification area works, the one I just added to panel has no icon
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then you can reproduce the bug, so it's time for me to whip up some debugging code
<ochosi> i'll ping you once it's ready, thanks for now elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke 
<ochosi> elfy: ok, just emailed you a patch with some instructions
<elfy> I assume if I get no response from git apply patchname that it did it? 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> ok - well all I am seeing in terminal after starting the panel is stuff about the weather api
<ochosi> and the plugin is already added to the panel?
<elfy> off to work now - catch up later
<ochosi> okeydokey
<elfy> yes - plugin is in panel
<ochosi> weird
<elfy> yup
<ochosi> you should definitely be getting some output stating the icon name
<ochosi> a warning, to be exact
<elfy> that was what I expected 
<ochosi> alright, i'll check in with you when you're back
<elfy> yup
<elfy> if I get time I'll get the Wibbly install sorted first and do the whole lot in a clean install too 
<elfy> back later 
<bluesabre> good morning everyone
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> whats up?
<ochosi> oh, working working working :)
<ochosi> you?
<bluesabre> not much atm, just waking up
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i saw i missed out on some greeter fun over the weekend
<bluesabre> yeah, need to make sure the PPA is up to date and get some testing
<bluesabre> will probably get that rolling, and the xfpm-gtk3 ppa tonight
<ochosi> actually you can skip the latter part
<ochosi> elfy already reproduced the bug and i sent him a potential bugfix a few hrs ago
<ochosi> so we'll see how that goes
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> if it goes well, i'll ask the OP to reproduce as well and then i'll release 1.5.0
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> so we can get proper testing with a proper release
<bluesabre> very nice work
<ochosi> and then i can sneak in my small improvements for the panel plugin finally :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> already have ideas for 15.10?
<bluesabre> I've been updating my site and getting motivated to start coding and blogging again
<bluesabre> will probably work on fixing bugs in each of my apps and doing minor releases before getting into the bigger stuff
<bluesabre> also need to look at the lxpanel plugin
<bluesabre> for xfpm
<ochosi> righty, there was a (very reasonable) request to make ctrl+q close catfish's window
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> i'm also in favor of porting catfish to CSD ;)
<bluesabre> i might experiment with that and push out an experimental branch
<ochosi> bluesabre: we could start testing the pulseaudio panel plugin as a replacement for indicator-sound+xfce4-volumed
<ochosi> the only thing missing from it are the mpris playback controls, all other features (multimedia-keys, notifications, link to open pavucontrol) are there
<elfy> ochosi: got new patch, applied that, no change
<ochosi> that is just weird
<ochosi> hm, but thanks for testing
<elfy> yea - but who know's what's going on with this install - when I am home properly I'll do a clean install and try there 
<ochosi> sent you another patch
<ochosi> lemme know how that one goes
 * ochosi needs a coffee
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/mryJ0sBP
<elfy> nothing about the plugin icon though
<bluesabre> ochosi: that sounds like a good idea, let's look into tha
<bluesabre> t
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> elfy: right, try with "PANEL_DEBUG=1 xfce4-panel"
<ochosi> bluesabre: hf!
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/nqMxQCq6
<elfy> running now - back later :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to start dumping ideas on here and we can weed through them later? https://trello.com/b/s6rhU84c/xubuntu-projects
<bluesabre> and anybody else, :)
<bluesabre> also, haven't reviewed and cleaned up the trello in a little while, so mind the mess ;)
<bluesabre> Now I'm running on mobile, probably the development board would make more sense ;)
<ochosi> elfy: there's some piece i'm missing, for some reason you're not getting the debug output
<ali1234> the default xfce theme in manjaro is *really* nice
<ali1234> and it works on gtk 3.16, so i might switch to that instead of orion
<ali1234> which means i won't be maintaining orion (if you hadn't guessed)
<ochosi> what theme are they using in manjaro?
<ali1234> one they made i guess
<ochosi> alright, i'll google it myself
<ali1234> https://github.com/manjaro/artwork-menda
<ali1234> based on this http://horst3180.deviantart.com/art/Vertex-Theme-470663601
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, too pixmapy for my taste, that just slows things down. either way, good you found something that works for you (indicator support for xfce is not really premium though with that theme)
<ochosi> also, frickin nouveau drivers make my system very unstable. very not cool.
<elfy> ochosi: back, I have removed the git one, reinstalled the repo one, then done all the git stuff once more just to check - no difference
<ochosi> elfy: thanks
<ochosi> i guess something isn't built with debug support
<ochosi> when you initially compile xfpm with "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr" there's a summary at the end, what does it say about debugging?
<elfy> Debug: minimum
<ochosi> right, maybe try to rebuild with "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr --enable-debug=yes"
<jjfrv8> ochosi, what are the symptoms you're seeing with the nouveau drivers?
<elfy> baldness as he pulls his hair out ... 
<drc> Nah, that comes from dealing with the QA Lead :)
<elfy> ochosi: well Debug: yes but the output in terminal seems to be the same to me 
<jjfrv8> biab
<ochosi> jjfrv8: spontaneous reboots and kernel panics
<ochosi> elfy: hmmm
<elfy> snap - that was my reaction too
<ochosi> mind to paste the output of "upower -d"?
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10913127/
<ochosi> that's all?
<ochosi> ok, wow, that's pretty little
<ochosi> but good to know
<elfy> expecting loads? 
<ochosi> yeah, well, more than that at least
<ochosi> anyway, gotta run
<ochosi> bbl
<lderan> right then, now i have some some form of "back"ness, is there anything pressing i can help with?
<elfy> hi lderan 
<lderan> hi elfy :)
<elfy> welcome back ish :p
<lderan> well should be back properly now, should of really been last week but alas not according the universe :P
<elfy> such is the way of it ;)
<lderan> aye :P
<elfy> lderan: I'd guess that ochosi and bluesabre would be the ones in the know :)
<lderan> aye will have to poke them :)
<bluesabre> lderan: may have something fun for you shortly
<lderan> oo
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> what are you interested in currently? code, docs, testing?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Are you going to try and get xfdashy and -pulseaudio in Debian?
<bluesabre> yeah, I think that should be a realistic goal now
<bluesabre> particularly if we are starting to evaluate -pulsey for xuby
<Unit193> Have fun! :---D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-28
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> both
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, do we get to keep those packages in 1. Git  2. on the bitbucket group?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm sure either is fine, in the end we'll still have to push to svn for debian :(
<Unit193> Well, if it goes into pkg-xfce, yeah. :/
<Unit193> knome: Can you disable DE translations or something? :P
<Unit193> bzr diff -r 371..373: http://paste.openstack.org/show/ENrf6eYjlmL9BeaU6mDk
<Unit193> bluesabre: You should be able to nuke https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.10 12.04 went EOL for Xubuntu.
<ochosi> yeah, we should do that plus write a brief blog post about it
<ochosi> bluesabre: you're up for that ^ ?
<Unit193> Not until July can we remove the utopic ones. :(
<lderan> bluesabre: code preferably, but don't mind with docs & testing :) 
<bluesabre> good morning folks
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, will do that once we publish the blog post...
<bluesabre> ochosi: elfy has already drafted up a post for it on the website
<bluesabre> just haven't published just yet :)
<elfy> bluesabre: and it's probably not flowery enough :)
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll add a bit to it and mention the deprecation of xubuntu ppas for it as well
<elfy> ta
<elfy> if you get time - can you pass your eye over the QA one for me too :)
<bluesabre> could do to be a bit more flowery, you sound a bit annoyed in the current draft (with good reason, ofc)
<elfy> bluesabre: mmm 
<elfy> not going to be saying everything's rosy when it's rather more briary ... 
<bluesabre> when do you want to publish? I can do a bit of writing tonight on both posts
<bluesabre> and yes, I agree
<elfy> the QA one is no rush at all - the end of next week at latest I guess
<elfy> the 12.04 one - I'd say asap 
<bluesabre> we could also make it more sailory... you guys didn't #$$&*%$# do much
<elfy> bluesabre: MY draft was very sailory :D
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> you're seeing the draft's draft draft draft :D
 * bluesabre high fives elfy for the valiant xubuntu draft effort
<elfy> \o/ 
<elfy> should that be drafty :p
<bluesabre> ~
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll dump the precise ppa packages tonight
<bluesabre> elfy: I'll work on the EOL draft tonight (adding sparkles) and get it ready to publish
<elfy> bluesabre: okey doke 
<elfy> it might have better id I drafted them the other way round - but 12.04 came after the other ;)
<elfy> have a good one - off out again 
<bluesabre> yup, me too, seeya
<zequence> When exactly are you goin EOL with precise?
<elfy> last Sunday
<zequence> Ah
<zequence> Did you announce it yet?
<elfy> not yet :)
<zequence> Ok. Well, at least I know it won't be too early for us to announce ours.
<elfy> lol 
<zequence> I'll be ending maintainence for linux-lowlatency at the same time, and will need to announce that too
<astraljava> I find your wording on the matter quite disturbing. ;)
<elfy> must have missed some wording ... 
<knome> elfy, maybe the missing stuff was the disturbing part
<elfy> phew 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-29
<Unit193> knome: Update docs.x.o?
<Unit193> Also rm precise?
<bluesabre> want to hug https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.10 before it disappears forever?
<bluesabre> made some updates to the EOL post, feel free to further update it or publish it any time, http://xubuntu.org/?p=3123&preview=true
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Good, precise is gone.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> maybe knome or ochosi can make a sad or old-looking pangolin artwork for that post
<bluesabre> also, need to pop 12.04 off of http://xubuntu.org/help/
<Unit193> Heh, pointed that out about docs.x.o
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> Unit193: precise right now, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75EBfJj9G3E
<Unit193> Silly bluesabre.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ...Then again, here I am listening to wxradio.
<bluesabre> silly Unit193.
<Hudsonkem> anybody there?
<elfy> ish
<Hudsonkem> do know about "what default windows compositor will be"?
<elfy> in relation to what?
<Hudsonkem> like "if when it will have a new features and more settings to customize"
<elfy> oic - no idea, I don't have a great deal to do with xfce - and that's where it would come from
<Hudsonkem> hm... thx ^^
<ali1234> ochosi: this vertex theme has support for indicators and all the other xfce weird stuff :)
<Unit193> Ist goot?
<knome> Unit193, pleia2: i've updated the docs-startpage branch (drop 12.04, add 15.04)
<Unit193> knome: Danke.  /help/ too?
<knome> i'll do that next
<Unit193> Danke.
<knome> 3.9.6-src
<knome> :|
<knome> so we're not upgrading to the 4.x WP series any time soon i guess..
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<knome> Unit193, done
<knome> cycling the press page...
<ochosi> ali1234: a-ha, i only tested the manjaro thing you linked to
<ali1234> that seems to work just fine too
<ochosi> right, didn't for me in 15.04
<ali1234> maybe it's because i'm on 14.04
<ochosi> maybe the transparency in the panel, who knows
<elfy> published the 12.04 post
<pleia2> knome: I'll try to update the live site this week, maybe I'll luck out with the server being able to talk to bzr.launchpad.net again (not holding my breath)
<pleia2> s/bzr/bazaar
<elfy> don't do the holding breath thing ... 
<drc> Yeah, there's no after market for blue princess's
<pleia2> aw, mouseies http://www.unixstickers.com/tag/xfce
<drc> aw, xmousies.... http://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/linux_os_distribution_stickers/xubuntu-kit-stickers-and-pins
<drc> on sale, no less.
<lderan> do need to get some of those
<lderan> my laptop needs more stickers 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-30
<elfy> morning
<Hudsonkem> morning :)
<bluesabre> Dropped the Xfce 4.10 PPA, updated the description on https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12
<brainwash_> bluesabre: hi, you surely have some 14.04 installation to test stuff, right?
<bluesabre> I use 14.04 at work, and test things in VMs before pushing them... what's up?
<ali1234> i use 14.04 too
<lderan> i have 14.04 on a laptop somewhere as well :P
<brainwash_> package stuck in -proposed for too long
<brainwash_> bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in Xfwm4 "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash_> once there was a fixed package available, everybody stopped caring about this bug o.o
<brainwash_> or did it magically disappear? :)
<ali1234> most likely explanation: nobody uses keybindings
<brainwash_> anymore?
<ali1234> ever
<ali1234> since the invention of the computer mouse :)
<bluesabre> I generally don't add a verification comment to the fixes that I upload, it feels wrong to me
<brainwash_> how do I zoom the desktop with mouse only?
<bluesabre> I test and verify, then upload, so one of the original reporters can take a crack at it
<ali1234> remap one of your mouse buttons to send super
<ali1234> or whatever key it is
<brainwash_> bluesabre: but what to do? letting it rot in -proposed is bad 
<ali1234> find someone who is willing to say it works for them
<bluesabre> well, I'd imagine that nearly anybody else in -team or the community could also check out the bug
<ali1234> anyone at all can post a verification comment
<brainwash_> well, I'll bump the report at least
<bluesabre> yeah, can't stop you from just marking it as verified yourself if you know the fix is good
<ali1234> wait...
<ali1234> nvm
<ali1234> o yeah all you need to do is find one person who is affected to say that this packages fixes it
<ali1234> i'm going to have to decline to be that person, i don't use shortcuts and i don't understand how they work or how to use them anyway
<brainwash_> SRUs are always troublesome
<brainwash_> bluesabre: any idea re bug 1421443 ?
<ubottu> bug 1421443 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "suspending xubuntu live session locks screen and requires password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421443
<brainwash_> light-locker should be disabled in the live session
<bluesabre> yeah, it is
<bluesabre> so thats odd
<brainwash_> in 14.10 too, right?
<brainwash_> I'm not sure if asking the reporter to test 15.04 will help
<brainwash_> unless something was changed recently
<bluesabre> might be related to the suspend
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings (14.10.5) utopic; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * debian/light-locker.desktop
<bluesabre>   * debian/xubuntu-live-settings.install
<bluesabre>     - Drop light-locker.desktop, default config no longer auto-locks
<bluesabre> should take a look at that later
<brainwash_> thanks
<brainwash_> there are some new display related bugs filed against xfce4-settings
<brainwash_> want to take a look?
<bluesabre> I can review them tonight, or you can link them here and I'll follow up
<brainwash_> bug 1426939
<ubottu> bug 1426939 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Display application does not show new displays" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1426939
<brainwash_> bug 1441991
<ubottu> bug 1441991 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Screen doesn't turn on when waking with dual screen setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441991
<brainwash_> bug 1444060
<ubottu> bug 1444060 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "settings for extended display broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444060
<ochosi> hmright, the first is a known issue, or feature request
<ochosi> guess we'd have to listen to the respective signal and then update the view, doesnt sound too hard to do
<ochosi> the second one is a collection of reports or feature requests, messy...
<bluesabre> oh boy, we lured ochosi out :)
<ochosi> oh boy oh boy oh boy
<ochosi> lucky for you i need to head out again..
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> have fun ochosi
<ochosi> thanks, you too
<elfy> hi krytarik 
<krytarik> Hi elfy.
<elfy> drc: :)
<drc> I'm not here...oh, yes, I am <here>.
<Unit193> And yet another day without the codename I presume.
<elfy> yep
<elfy> and if it's not tomorrow - another week without I'd guess
<Unit193> Meh.  I've been waiting for some time to start pushing things. ;(
<elfy> yep
<Hudsonkem> hello, im using xubuntu 15.04 and sometimes when i open folder with external software like google chrome it open nautilus? why I dont installed that, and I found this packages nautilus-data, libnautilus-extension1a, may I remove that?
<Unit193> You can remove it if you want to, I'd check to see what's removed.  Also, if nautilus is opened, then it's clearly been installed.  file-roller (archive manager) depends on nautilus-data, so that'd get removed as well.
<Hudsonkem> :/ but what i can do without file-roller to open archives?
<Unit193> I can't quite parse that.
<Hudsonkem> ok, thx for ur help, I will relax and think what I will decide right now
<Unit193> Check if nautilus is installed, and if so remove that.
<Hudsonkem> yes checked, and nautilus is not installed, it so strange how it open '-'
<drc> Hudsonkem: You are saying that nautilus is NOT installed but yet is being opened?
<Unit193> `which nautilus`
<Hudsonkem> yes, I'm so surprised
<Hudsonkem> but maybe I'm wrong and, thunar come with layout and settings with same of nautilus?
<drc> Hudsonkem: Do whatever you do to "open nautilus" and then check "Help>About" to see what tha app really is.
<Hudsonkem> okay, now I will try reproduce that.
<drc> Hudsonkem: This should probably be moved to #xubuntu  It's the support channel.
<Hudsonkem> oh! okay ^^ thx for all
<Unit193> Right you are, drc.
<drc> Unit193: Sometimes I/we forget which channel we're actually in :)
<Hudsonkem>  Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu i didnt see that >.<
 * drc will get his ruler..." Hudsonkem. stick out you hand" :) 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-01
<Unit193> ochosi: Soo, I may have missed it or just mearly forgotten.  What'd you end up deciding on re: core for the vivid release?
<brainwash_> bluesabre: is bug 1434959 worth to be fixed (SRU)?
<ubottu> bug 1434959 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "XFCE desktop - system icons themselves arrange off the screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434959
<brainwash_> alberto set the importance to high, and a patch is available
<brainwash_> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=70c0ba765f6b21c7cb1a9e1e16b4144795f7c70f
<brainwash_> + http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=5dbe0e728ad0a8348cbf1687aea4b4aaf6a8c26e (adds missing g_list_free())
<OvenWerks> 3~/n
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-02
<lderan> ochosi & bluesabre i'll be about all day tomorrow & monday. so will poke you then to see what I can do to help if you're okay with that :)
<knome> lderan, they usually hate when somebody tries to help them
<lderan> curses
<lderan> how about mildly inconvenient? :P
<knome> mildy is an underestimation
<lderan> oh dear
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-03
<astraljava> Has there been a change to configurations from 14.10 to 15.04, since I do not seem to get automatic update suggestions on this laptop that was upgraded, but did on the mini-laptop that's a fresh install?
<elfy> not that I know of - checked the settings? 
<astraljava> It's been too long, I forget where to look. :)
<elfy> software and updates - updates tab :)
<astraljava> Hmm... it says Daily.
<astraljava> Weird, every time I've manually run updates, there has been stuff to update, though.
<astraljava> Oh, it could be that "Display weekly" for other updates than security.
<astraljava> Thanks, elfy!
<elfy> possibly
<elfy> also - other than a few last week, the only updates I've had in 15.04 have come from PPA's 
<astraljava> Really? I just updated some systemd packages.
<elfy> yea -  I got them 
<astraljava> Right, but yeah that policy would certainly explain the behavior. I don't think there's been a week in between my manual runs.
<Hudsonkem> why xubuntu don't put compton as default?
<knome> the xfce compositor is good enough for most
<pleia2> woo, an org I've done some work with is deploying xubuntu on some systems, requested Xubuntu At... interview
<elfy> woohoo
<elfy> they could use OEM install ... 
<elfy> just saying :p
<pleia2> I don't know how they're doing the deployments, it's a small outfit
<pleia2> probably pxe boot w/ a default image
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> (they add a bunch of edubuntu packages, because kids)
<elfy> nice to see - however they're doing it :) 
 * pleia2 nods
<Unit193> pxe?  Fog?
<knome> pleia2, nice
<knome> pleia2, fwiw, i haven't heard anything back from that guy since i last sent him email, but it's surely coming at some point..
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> bluetooth indicator keeps randomly appearing 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-02
<flocculant> knome: so we build early in the morning now 
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: indeed, clutter seems to be on its way out the door
<bluesabre> flocculant, I'll try to look at it (thunar) tonight, on my phone, and only my desktop password manager knows my password :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok :)
<flocculant> I thought it was 1password! 
<ochosi> password1234
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> now I know yours too :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: i wonder what we should do in the meantime with parole... disable clutter?
<ochosi> flocculant: ooops :)
<flocculant> and you know mine as well :D
<knome> flocculant, around?
<flocculant> knome: yup
<knome> flocculant, so... http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa
<knome> flocculant, that's some test data, but you can see how it looks
<knome> flocculant, also see the item in the menu
<knome> flocculant, anything else you need there? :)
<flocculant> knome: that's more or less what I had in mind - thanks :)
<knome> great!
<knome> btw...
<knome> if you want any links to trackers or whatever to the qa status page... just poke me and i'll add them
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> have to think about that 
<knome> sure, no hurry
<flocculant> knome: actually - see no reason why that status page shouldn't link to iso tracker 
<knome> yep
<knome> let me find the right mousepad window again...
<flocculant> lol
<knome> done
<flocculant> ta :)
<flocculant> once this is dusted and mail list knows - I will disable the image test on the tracker
<flocculant> biab
<Unit193> LP #1576576, looking less likely.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576576 in Mozilla Firefox "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576576
<Unit193> ochosi: â GTK .20 looking less likely.
<Unit193> (This is not based on my own idea of likely, read it in #u-devel.)
<dkessel> nice, so that is the autopilot boot result on the dev tracker?
<knome> dkessel, no
<knome> dkessel, it's manual by the QA team
<dkessel> oh :(
<knome> flocculant said the autopilot boot result is useless
<knome> :P
<flocculant> dkessel: the autopilot thing seems to have died again 
<flocculant> and even when it's up - most fails seem to be in the test - not the image
<flocculant> wasn't interested in waiting for another cycle to pass by
<flocculant> actually seems to be up 
<flocculant> reporting fails still
<dkessel> sure, i understand
<flocculant> knome: possible to have update date/time on the admin page?
<knome> maybe
<flocculant> just thinking - fine while it's just 1 person doing it
<knome> okay
<flocculant> but no way for anyone to check it's updated 
<knome> be assured, once i've figured this one thing out, things will be much nicer for everybody
<flocculant> :)
<knome> flocculant, there is, just see the qa status page and see if anything is "unconfirmed"
<knome> ...but yeah, not on the admin
<flocculant> knome: aah - so at 2am it switches to unconfirmed? 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> mmm - ok then I think update time would be superfluous 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> obviously didn't read that 2am thing properly earlier :)
<knome> that happens
<flocculant> what happens? 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> not reading properly
<knome> and not reading at all
<knome> and trolling
<flocculant> :)
<knome> (:
<knome> !team | meeting in 5ish
<ubottu> meeting in 5ish: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  2 19:30:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> who's around today?
<akxwi-dave> aye
<knome> hello akxwi-dave :)
<flocculant> I'm around 
<flocculant> tuit
<dkessel> hey there o/
<knome> Unit193 is not around, i take it
<Unit193> Certainly not, nope.
<flocculant> phew
<knome> what about ochosi?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> none
<knome> #topic Updates and Announcements
<knome> #subtopic Milestone participation (flocculant)
<flocculant> we're only participating in Final Beta this cycle
<knome> ack
<knome> #info Xubuntu will only do Final Beta for 16.10
<knome> anybody have anything on that?
<knome> no?
<knome> moving on.
<knome> #topic Discussion
<knome> #subtopic Raspberry Pi images in 16.10 (dkessel)
<knome> dkessel, you're up!
<dkessel> wow, that's fast.
<knome> that happens... :)
<nairwolf> I'm here
<AuroraAvenue> o/
<dkessel> well i want to propose testing the raspi images this cycle
<knome> hello nairwolf, AuroraAvenue 
<knome> dkessel, they are already being built, i assume so ;)
<knome> (well i know they are...)
<dkessel> sure
<flocculant> who's going to do this testing? 
<knome> i would suggest the following:
<knome> let's create unofficial testcases for them for 16.10 in the iso tracker -- obviously leading to an unofficial, community-driven project at most
<knome> if we seem to get a lot of interest and testing, then we can re-evaluate whether we want to make it official for 17.04
<flocculant> hang on
<knome> yes
<flocculant> I still want to know who's going to do this testing ... 
<dkessel> well i have a pi and i can test.
<knome> i would imagine dkessel at least
<dkessel> flocculant: want a pi? ;)
<knome> the rest - we/i don't know
<flocculant> dkessel: no thanks - I have enough on my plate as it is ;)
<knome> if only dkessel tests them, then we can say "ok, at least we tried" and not release it even as an unofficial community project
<nairwolf> Badly, I don't have a pi, but I have an Odroid from hardkernel
<akxwi-dave> i have a pi as well
<flocculant> frankly I'm more interested in us getting Core and testing that
<knome> since the building of the images is done already, we don't get any more workload from that
<dkessel> nairwolf: if you want a pi - no problem :)
<knome> flocculant, same here, but otoh, since this comes from team, and there are people who are willing/volunteering to test it...
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> nothing to stop us adding something to the tracker - same was a the community core thing
<knome> we just communicate it's unofficial and least priority ATM
<knome> flocculant, indeed - and it's pretty fast to do that, especially if they can use the same testcases
<flocculant> I'm not willing to put much QA towards it - hard enough to do what we need to do 
<nairwolf> dkessel: I should be able to find one. 
<flocculant> assuming lts+1 cycle follows normal behaviour
<knome> we probably should do a quick round on the mailing list about this as well
<knome> dkessel, want to send some kind of an email with a plan how we would go forward with this to the -devel mailing list?
<flocculant> personally I'm still the same as I was last time this was brought up - but let's see what we get from the rest of team
<knome> dkessel, if you want, i can help you write that
<dkessel> knome: i can make a draft and check that with you before sending
<nairwolf> dkessel: Are you using a Pi with Xubuntu actually ?
<knome> ok, great
<knome> #action dkessel to draft a mail about pi image testing for 16.10, knome to review
<meetingology> ACTION: dkessel to draft a mail about pi image testing for 16.10, knome to review
<knome> #link https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org/
<knome> note that xubuntu is already on that list with "no" on "community support"
<knome> anything else on this subject?
<knome> ok, moving on
<knome> #topic New Project Lead (ochosi/knome)
<knome> since we don't have ochosi around, let's not start the process quite yet, but feel free to discuss!
<knome> (mostly team i guess...)
<knome> nothing? ok, let's continue via email
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<Unit193> I'm pretty certain everyone is fine with the council idea.
<knome> it's ochosi's turn! lucky winner!
<knome> #action ochosi to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule next meeting
<knome> pleia2, want to say something to get your name on the nicks list?
<pleia2> I'll follow up in email re leader/council ;)
<knome> hooray!
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  2 19:46:22 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-05-02-19.30.moin.txt
<knome> thanks everybody
<knome> fast meeting today :P
<flocculant> thanks knome 
<knome> np as always
<knome> comes from the spine already
<flocculant> :)
<nairwolf> Really fast meeting ^^
<knome> and minutes are up
<knome> and hooray, i said more lines than the rest combined
<knome> way to go me
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> Would the meeting chair go to the council or stick with project leads?  I think I said before, but could talk to kcouncil and see if they have any input too.
<knome> imo, the meeting chair could stay with team leaders
<flocculant> I think we should carry on as we already do
<knome> it spreads the work more evenly
<knome> which is always a good idea
<knome> i don't want the council to be another one of those "i don't want to apply because it means $toomuchwork"
<knome> because there definitely are such
<flocculant> mmm
<Unit193> Have to make sure and keep the members responsive too.
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> that said - it'd be nice to see team responsive to mails for team too ;)
<akxwi-dave> just map me xpl and i';ll get you lot to do the work  :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> I think generally people are responsive to emails.
<knome> yes
<knome> except a few people, who probably shouldn't be on the team *cough*
<AuroraAvenue> that's me :)
<knome> AuroraAvenue, you aren't on the team :P
<knome> so we can't kick you out either!
 * AuroraAvenue thinks the same still applies.
<AuroraAvenue> bye o/ 'kick me'
<Unit193> Could ping the two, see if they're still alive and if they actually want to stick on and plan to do anything.
<akxwi-dave> :-)
 * flocculant wonders which two 
<Unit193> Jackson, Mica.
<knome> yes
<flocculant> just wondering if the same two :)
<Unit193> Also maybe that Pasi guy, he's been in there a loooong time.
<flocculant> and he's bad man as well 
<knome> yes indeed
<nairwolf> akxwi-dave
<nairwolf> oups
<ochosi> evening everyone
<ochosi> sorry for arriving late :(
<ochosi> just came home
<ochosi> Unit193: when do i read that in  u-devel?
<nairwolf> hi ochosi ;)
<nairwolf> you want this ? http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-05-02-19.30.moin.txt ?
<ochosi> hi nairwolf 
<ochosi> i meanwhile skimmed the backlog
<ochosi> so it's fine ;)
<ochosi> but thanks
<Unit193> ochosi: In this handy paste I doctored, I mean provided: https://paste.unit193.net/?dfe0377c27ee7099#NakKAUt8N6u/hvgkv9UyYmroc9iUAroh7nawAsb9Wkg=
<nairwolf> I'm just doing a daily testing on real hardware. 
<nairwolf> Have you ever seen this message "ubi-console-setup crashed" ? 
<nairwolf> ubi-console-setup failed with exit code 1. Further information may be found in /var/log/syslog. Do you want to try running this step again before continuing ? If you do not, your installation may fail entirely or may be broken
<nairwolf> I've chosen the option "erase disk and install"
<nairwolf> Oh, it's this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1577540
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1577540 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-console-setup failing on yakkety images" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> How can I have access to /var/log/syslog if I'm just starting a new installation. Where is syslog in this case ? 
<nairwolf> In the old OS installed ? 
<nairwolf> good night
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-03
<flocculant> knome: ok - I'm happy with that now I've proved to myself it works like you said it would :p
<flocculant> !team | I've removed the image tests from the tracker now - people can see that we have a bootable iso at http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa
<flocculant> meh
<Unit193> Eh?  No more image tests?
<flocculant> Unit193: it was 1 test which was just the image boot test - the other's are still there
<flocculant> low tea count sentence that was 
<Unit193> I see.
<flocculant> s/image tests/image boot test 
<flocculant> :)
<dkessel> flexiondotorg: regarding raspberry pi xubuntu images for testing - do you build images regularly? or just for releases?
<flocculant> dkessel: morning :)
<dkessel> just checking that i would not set up stuff that already exists ;) i have already built images using the script
<dkessel> morning flocculant !
<flexiondotorg> dkessel, Mostly for releases, but sometimes if there is good reason to update. Like adding Pi 3 support to the 15.10 images.
<pjotter> Have any changes been made recently regarding samba and/or cifs? I suddenly have all sorts of problems  with file-locking on my clean install of 14.04.4. Especially Libreoffice fails to lock and unlock files on a cifs mounted nas properly.
<pjotter> Disabling file locking, either in fstab or in Libreoffice itself solves the problem but leaves the system vulnarable to errors.
<bluesabre> flocculant: the thunar test cases look fine to me... and yup what an annoying bug :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: indeed ... you want me to have the "i in $(seq 1 10); do touch "$i.txt"; done" bnits in there too? 
<flocculant> or have seperate testcases - easy to do 2 
<flocculant> bnits being code for bits 
<knome> awesome
<knome> \o/
<knome> i have a version of the tracker that can update work items internally
<knome> and updating is as easy as - double click a row, change stuff and press enter
<knome> or esc to cancel
<ochosi> knome: weee
<flocculant> knome: nice :)
<flocculant> does it update LP at the same time? 
<nairwolf> Hi flocculant ;) I've seen your bug report : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1577540
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1577540 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ubi-console-setup failing on yakkety images" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> It's weird that I blocked you the installation
<nairwolf> Because I could continue the installation yesterday
<flocculant> nairwolf: I could have continued too - didn't because I wanted the syslog
<nairwolf> oh, ok ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: almost as boring writing these as it will be to run them ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - written 2, not live on tracker yet - nor merged, could you have a look at them before I do > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/Thunar/revision/339?start_revid=339
<flocculant> thanks :)
<knome> flocculant, no, my vision is that we basically ignore LP for the blueprints in the future...
<flocculant> knome: mmm 
<flocculant> not so sure about reinventing a wheel
<flocculant> and how will this vision of yours deal with external things - like Launchpad? 
<flocculant> hi akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> evening
<knome> flocculant, bugs can be attached to the tracker as you can attach them to the blueprints
<knome> flocculant, and believe me - this isn't really reinventing the wheel - this is doing some of the work ourself to make sure we can do what we want with the data
<flocculant> knome: ok - you knew what I meant then :p
<knome> or tbe, they can't be - yet
<flocculant> knome: ack - just donning the devil's advocate hat here ;)
<knome> i haven't implemented any "add" functions yet
<knome> but it's more or less trivial once i go there...
<flocculant> slickymaster: sent you and Dave (cc'd knome) mail about it now
<slickymaster> seeing it now, flocculant 
<slickymaster> and evening knome 
<knome> hello slickymaster 
<flocculant> knome: bah - meant to say that ... 
<knome> np
<slickymaster> fine by me
<slickymaster> I'll look see at expresso time, before leaving to work
<slickymaster> + and
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> if that's before I do it ... 
<slickymaster> exactly, if it's unconfirmed, I'll do it
<slickymaster> if not, I'll just have my expresso
<flocculant> :)
<knome> it's espresso btw
<knome> :P
<flocculant> lol
<slickymaster> well, over here it's expresso :P
<flocculant> well - love the company and all that :)
<flocculant> night night
<knome> night flocculant 
<slickymaster> night flocculant 
<ochosi> meh, ubuntu 16.04's kernel broke my wifi :'(
<Unit193> Oh?
<ochosi> older kernel in 16.04 worked, but 4.4.0-21 is evil
<ochosi> (-18 worked)
<genii> You have some home-compiled wifi driver or something?
<ochosi> genii: no, broadcom
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, garcon, xfce4-appfinder, -taskmanager, git xfconf and git tumbler are the only ones ported to gdbus/gtk3, right?
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/1572659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1572659 in bcmwl (Ubuntu) "bcmwl driver does not work with kernel 4.4.0-21 when secure boot enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> Unit193: no, there are several panel plugins now too
<Unit193> Hah, secure boot strikes again! :P
<ochosi> unless you're looking for the combination of gdbus/gtk3
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah, didn't list those because boring. :P
<ochosi> well then at least the power-manager is missing
<Unit193> Ah right, OK.
<ochosi> anyway, disabled stupid secure boot and now things are fine again..
<Unit193> ochosi: You see my comments about the nice broken xfconf port?  I don't know who 'ali' is so can't ping.
<Unit193> slickymaster: No, but FYI copied the functional packages from unit193/xfce4-gtk3 to xubuntu-dev/
<slickymaster> hmmm url Unit193, please
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages this one?
<Unit193> (This is my personal tracker: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/docs/xfce4.14.html )
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> thanks for the heads up
<Unit193> It's upstream stuff, not ours yet though.
<slickymaster> they build successfully but they haven't been published
<slickymaster> is that why you say they're still not ours?
<Unit193> No I just copied them from my PPA.
<slickymaster> got it
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 slickymaster
<bluesabre> flocculant: those test cases look good (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/Thunar/revision/339?start_revid=339)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - thanks for looking - I'll get those self-approved on to the tracker then :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: FWIW, testing the gtk/gdbus stuff then moving it to the team PPA.
<Unit193> So port more and we'll fill it up. :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: all done on tracker now, I guess the next thing is either get people to test and report the fails and wait for something to land and retest
<flocculant> or wait then test
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-04
<bluesabre> flocculant: sounds good
<bluesabre> Unit193: sweet
<Unit193> Ah, aliov is 'ali' and not been on for a few days.  Oh well then.
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll send something out over the next day or so then - even though it'll get a bunch of fails
<flocculant> I should have added <strong>This test will be more boring than normal</strong>
<ochosi> Unit193: ali is aliov in irc and i haven't seen it yet, also mention it on the xfce dev ml
<flocculant> evening nairwolf 
<nairwolf> good evening flocculant ;)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-05
<jcjordyn120> Hello
<flocculant> hi
<jcjordyn120> is yakkety yak going to be a lts or a standard release?
<flocculant> jcjordyn120: it'll be a standard one 
<LazyUser69> Will sending an error report genuinely help fix a problem?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-06
<Logan> LazyUser69: yep, all reports help
<Logan> if a lot of people report the same problem, it's prioritized
<LazyUser69> Nice.
<LazyUser69> I'm doing my part.
<Unit193> Logan: Can stuff in universe have vcs fields? :P
<Logan> Unit193: sure, why not?
<Logan> we all appreciate you, LazyUser69
<Unit193> Logan: Ubuntu for the most part is a free for all and doesn't maintain things in VCS is all.
<Logan> that's true, but Ubuntu devs should respect development in a separate repo if it's specified
<Unit193> Fancy.
<Unit193> As always, danke.
<Unit193> flocculant: What's your frustration level with thunar right now?
<Unit193> Debian 823578 filed.
<ubottu> Debian bug 823578 in thunar "thunar: Apply patch that solves Thunar constant crashes" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/823578
<flocculant> Unit193: not very high from a personal pov - don't do much moving/renaming/copying in one go
<flocculant> from QA pov - high ;)
<Unit193> Hmmm...  Not sure what that answer is, but for me it seems to be "Hey!  It's nearing 4am, time to patch thunar and see if it's broken!"
<flocculant> Unit193: the patch in that xfce bug though -is that not one we applied? 
<flocculant> in which case it doesn't fix it - just makes it less obvious
<flocculant> if I knew for sure we'd applied that patch I would reply :)
<flocculant> now - work - cya
<Unit193> That's different.
<Unit193> Did someone offer Dave the standard IRC client/bouncer/etc?
<Unit193> flocculant: Uploaded it to a PPA, got the crash before, updated, couldn't afterwards.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that sounds exciting
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - I'll give that a hammering when I'm back properly - then get some others testing it (hopefully) 
<akxwi-dave> oh matron
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm - that's the one I don't seem to see when I try to do https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c32
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<flocculant> though it appears to have sorted that issue too
<flocculant> looking good - have a proper go later
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: if you get chance to update to that thunar and run through renaming - that'd be good
<flocculant> bbl
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, I ran thru the thunar rename this morning on a fresh yakkety, taking what was on the pad.. still no crash for me..
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, will do so on xenial tonoght as weill with the latest thunar..
<dkessel> flexiondotorg: regarding raspberry pi xubuntu images for testing - do you build images regularly? or just for releases?
<flexiondotorg> For releases and if something important happens that requires a rebuild. For example, when the Pi 3 was released.
<dkessel> ok thanks
<flocculant> Unit193 bluesabre - well after 30 minutes of renaming stuff, copying stuff, moving stuff - both within 1 thunar instance and to another one opened up - not seeing crash here
<flocculant> ok calls for testing thunar are sent
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - if we could have some social mediaing for this I'm sure bluesabre  will join me in thanking you :D
<flocculant> Unit193: and thanks for seeing that, and sorting the ppa out :)
<Unit193> Oh wow, alright.  And sure, glad it's not just seemingly fixed for me then.
<flocculant> Unit193: well - who knows - it could be seemingly fixed for you and me ;)
<Unit193> Still not fond of the idea of shipping a bugzila patch to an LTS though.
<flocculant> Unit193: well - what other option do we have here? 
<flocculant> also - haven't we done that already with thunar? 
<Unit193> Backported commit.
<flocculant> the pre-release things we did with thunar are those? 
<flocculant> anyway - first thing to do is get more than a couple of people ack it fixes it
<Unit193> I know how we do that, push to yakkety! :--D
<flocculant> Unit193: :)
<flocculant> works for me
<flocculant> and that works for me too :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-07
<bluesabre> flocculant: great, thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: if all looks good, we can have ochosi push the fix if nothing else :)
<Unit193> Hah, just because I don't like it doesn't mean we don't do it. :P
<Unit193> Hey, I'm just happy this has less crashing.
<flocculant> knome: why is it that text on our wiki all looks bold ?
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - I'm completely confused I think on which thunar patches we actually have now - and which bug they're supposed to deal with
<flocculant> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/361/builds/117794/testcases/1681/results
<flocculant> I've now got a pass where it ran for ~20 minutes
<flocculant> and a fail where it managed to last for ~5 seconds before it went wrong 
<flocculant> sigh - and after *that* failing - the manually renaming crash occurred almost immediately
<knome> flocculant, that's a good question
<flocculant> makes a change :p
<knome> i believe it has again something to do with google fonts and how the webfonts are rendered
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> let me see if we use google fonts :P
<knome> actually nope
<knome> of course we don't
<knome> we don't use any
<knome> you don't happen to have the font "open sans" installed, i guess
<knome> thus, the site falls back to sans-serif
<flocculant> not looking like I do
<knome> and if that font doesn't support the weights we define, or there is some other problem with rendering (this happens)
<knome> i need to run now
<knome> if you don't mind, please file a bug against xubuntu-website
<knome> i'll get to it at latest monday
<flocculant> yup of course
<knome> thanks
<knome> ok, hurrying already ->
<flocculant> hah - have a good one :p
<flocculant> bug 1579343
<ubottu> bug 1579343 in Xubuntu Website "http://wiki.xubuntu.org appears bold" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579343
<Unit193> Yeah I had hit where it didn't refresh right, F5 fixed that.  So I suppose this isn't going quite as well as it should.
<flocculant> Unit193: mmm
<flocculant> what?
<flocculant> knome: so - been thinking now we've got xubuntu wiki space - about qa doc stuff - not sure it's in the right place now we've got something we have some control over
<flocculant> a chat at some point about that dear chap :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: So new thunar is hit and miss it seems, if you look at results.
<bluesabre> so I've read
<bluesabre> disappointing :(
<Unit193> However, seems to me like the thing I hit, doesn't always refresh so F5 fixes it?
<bluesabre> I'm content with just not crashing myself
<Unit193> Having to manually refresh seems better to me, but then again we're talking about a SRU.
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/05/msg00001.html
<bluesabre> Seems risky to be running 386 this far down the line
<Unit193> 586*
<Unit193> I'm sure they'll still support 686 for a while yet, considering. :P
<Unit193> Nice to have a fallback in case Ubuntu decides to be weird and drop it from the archive.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-08
<flocculant> bluesabre: from my point of view, seems rather daft to SRU half a fix - better for people to know where they stand
<flocculant> would be nice for the thunar god to fix it overnight - but given they are busy - I'd rather wait knowing where we stand
<flocculant> Unit193: all I read re*86 processors was bdmurray questioning 
<flocculant> not seen anything since - but not all m/l of course
<dkessel> knome: i will not be able to provide the time/infrastructure/bandwidth to build raspberry images for milestone testing
<dkessel> so i guess we can scrap my action item...
<pleia2> flocculant: finally g+ and fb-ed the thunar stuff, sorry for the delay (bad cold ruined my week)
<akxwi-dave>  flocculant, just an uopdate.. rang all the combination of thunar tests and on my lenovo laptop no crashes still..
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-01
<PaulW2U_> flocculant, bluesabre: re touchpad issue, adding 'Option "Tapping" "on"', logging out and back in again
<PaulW2U_> enabled tap/double tap without installing -synaptics. Just need a way of enabling via GUI :)
<PaulW2U_> oh, adding to libinput.conf of course.... :)
<flocculant> PaulW2U_: thanks :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Got anything for src:xubuntu-artwork?
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> Oh hrm, was http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/zesty/revision/323 in zesty?  And I figured may as well do the first 17.10 upload to open things up, and make sure no 'This is artful but boot screen says 17.04', since uploads are free. :P
<knome> :P
<Unit193> I'd do the same for xubuntu-docs, but meh.
<pleia2> knome: should we force ssl on the dev server, or just have it as an option?
<knome> once it works, i don't see a reason why we wouldn't force it
<pleia2> what value of "works"? ;) the certs will work, it's just a matter of whether they'll throw errors about insecure content on the page
<knome> heh
<knome> works as in no errors :P
<pleia2> with letsencrypt it's crazy easy to install and force with one step, so I'm inclined to do that if we want to force
<knome> sure, do that
<pleia2> ok
<knome> we'll just fix stuff as we go then
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<pleia2> done and hideous, oops
<pleia2> docs and static are fine :D
<pleia2> staging, idk, did it always have errors?
<pleia2> dev is yucky
<pleia2> wiki throws insecure errors we should fix
<pleia2> contest same as wiki
<pleia2> that's all of them
<pleia2> aren't you glad I did this at 3AM knome time?
<knome> very
<Unit193> Yes! \o/
<knome> staging is on WP_DEBUG, so maybe...
<knome> dev should be fine now
<pleia2> yay dev
<knome> and wiki should be ok too
<knome> ermm,
<knome> i think i need to poke the wp databases
<knome> le sigh
<knome> ok, staging and contest should be fine
<knome> pleia2, anything else you see breaking, poke
<knome> off to hang around a bit before going to bed
<knome> nighty!
<pleia2> ty <3 good night
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-02
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think it made it in
<bluesabre> Feel free to bump version numbers
<bluesabre> Let me know when you've uploaded so I can do the 2nd upload (https://launchpad.net/gtk-theme-config/1.2/1.2.2)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right-o.  Pushed all the things.
<Unit193> bluesabre: That doesn'tlook related though.  And, next up: Splitting out elementary-xfce-icon-theme! :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [artful] r324 Bump version number to 17.10 (by Unit 193)
<bluesabre> Unit193: nah, no need for it to be related :D
<Unit193> If you're talking Xubuntu uploads, I already got thunar. :P
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+uploaded-packages
<Unit193> New gtk-theme-config sounds fun to try though.
<bluesabre> Unit193: awesome
<bluesabre> the new gtk-theme-config might have some issues, but works better than it did since the last update was wily
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: re bug 1687075 not sure if this has been patched into today's iso..  As looking at xfce bug 13535  it appears it may.. I can confirm that Thunar on todays iso is not leaving copies behin in trash any more.. (However still think the actual wording of the warning dialog could be better,,
<ubottu> bug 1687075 in thunar "Restoring non-empty folders spawns warning - leaves copy behind" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687075
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13535 in apr "Restoring non-empty folders spawns a warning about modification/restores folder and leaves copy in Trash" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13535
<Unit193> Should only be the one for LP: #1679488, Xfce bz #13481
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679488 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes when left inactive for a while" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679488
<akxwi-dave> ahh.. even weirder then...   as the other bug wasn't bugging today.. although it did  on older ones.. (unless that fix, fixed the other as well)  :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I still see the bug btw
<knome> akxwi-dave, flocculant: qa admin tab should be fixed
<akxwi-dave> knome: :-)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  hmm.. deffo not leaving anything behind for me on 32bit vm on virtualbox ( windows)  just about to do the 64bit install so will check on there
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  Nope .. not bugging out on either 32 or 64 for me on todays iso..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: http://tinypic.com/r/14vrcc8/9
<akxwi-dave> doh..  you can tell I've had too much beer over the weekend.. I've forgot to test against the cancel option...  did virtually every other one..    some one slap me..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yea - but when the warning shows up - the thing has already been restored
<flocculant> anyway - I tested the patch yesterday in the xfce bug
<akxwi-dave> aye same here now...  I was doing the skip and skip all
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: wording is odd - or that's a different issue, to me if something warns me and option is skip, yes or yes to all - that would imply it would not restore
<akxwi-dave> exactly.. which I think needs looking at as well.. As I would think the same..... to be honest does it need a dialog box at all?? or just a are you sure? one..
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> need to check with folders that include root owned stuff maybe?
<flocculant> need someone like bluesabre or ochosi to try and give a defnitive it 'should' do foo
<flocculant> I suspect that the warning is useful in the situation it's there for 
<akxwi-dave> yes If you were trying to edit them, but not really for restore...   8-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: sso what you want to do re package testing? 
<akxwi-dave> in what way bud?
<akxwi-dave> you'll have to forgive me.. had a few skin fulls over teh weekend celebrating a few things
<flocculant> in what way do you want the packages on the tracker? same as lts? new order?
<akxwi-dave> seems to have lost some brain cells along the way]
<akxwi-dave> ahh yes..
<akxwi-dave>   I would go for the same as LTS...  its familar to people, and if we do want to change bits/order  they can be done in small steps
<akxwi-dave> lets not frighten the testers that we do have too much.. :-)
<flocculant> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/377/builds
<flocculant> pretty simple to fiddle with the sections - though not as simple as it could be
<flocculant> knome: thanks btw :)
<akxwi-dave> chhers
<flocculant> np
<knome> flocculant, no problem
<Unit193> 00~https://bugs.debian.org/86170201~
<ubottu> Error: debian bug 86170201 not found
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-03
<Unit193> -pa-plug uploaded, should autoreconnect to PA if PA is restarted now.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice
<Unit193> Hi.
<flocculant> pleia2 knome http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/eeepc-xerus.html just in case missed that
<bluesabre> knome, should I just send that along to the dev list?
<knome> nah
<knome> you can mention it's in the calendar
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I'll send that out tonight
<knome> man
<knome> something's wrong with the google calendar sync :/
<bluesabre> :O
<knome> i'll just login from web
<bluesabre> bbabl
<bluesabre> dinner tiiiiiiime
<knome> ok, there it is
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-04
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's a very nice e-mail, where is this relaxed chat though ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: on the "Ubuntu on Air" channel... I don't have a link to the chat until it's set up
<bluesabre> ... will you be joining us?
<knome> yes please
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ummm 
<flocculant> I'm travelling to Greenland
<flocculant> or I've got a bone in my leg
<flocculant> or webcam suddenly broken
<flocculant> take your pick :p
<flocculant> definitely a Xubuntu Council thing - no-one else has a clue where we are going ;)
<Unit193> flocculant: Canada.
<flocculant> on serious note - no I won't be unless I can irc
<knome> what? :D
<knome> hah.
<knome> ehhhhh
<knome> i need a printer
<flocculant> and tbh hard to talk about testing - what do we say 'mmm sometimes we even manage to get 4 people to test for us' ...
<flocculant> with that bbl ;)
<knome> flocculant, you can talk about other things than testing too :P
<Spass> I have a laptop (currently occupied with Widows 7) which I could intend for testing purposes, is dual-booting more important to test or should I wipe it?
<knome> we do not specifically test dual booting, so it doesn't make a difference
<knome> what i mean is that we don't have different tests for dual booting and singular booting
<Spass> ok, but it may be important how the installation process is behaving when I choose to share my disk with Windows?
<knome> if there are issues with that part, then you should absolutely report that
<knome> but then again, that isn't specifically what we're testing
<knome> you might want to ask flocculant and akxwi-dave whether they'd rather like a dualbooting env or a clean one if you don't mind either one
<Spass> personally I'd lean towards dual-booting, because it's my fallback machine just in case, but if clean install is significantly more important to test I can live with that too :)
<knome> nope
<knome> pleia2, i'm planning to move the static assets and wiki into the dev-xubuntu-org branch of lp:xubuntu-website; and after that merge is done, move that under a separate project. make noises if any objections...
<knome> also should push more stuff to lp:xubuntu-marketing...
<knome> anyway, bbl
<akxwi-dave> Spass: I dual boot on two of my machines, A desktop and a Laptop.. BUT also have spare Xubuntu only machines... to be honest its doesn't matter whether you dual boot or full install..   just remember to backup any data from windows just in case..   It would also be a good test to try the auto resize install test.. or you will need to shrink teh windows
<akxwi-dave> partition before installing xubuntu
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-13-0-released-tp49217.html (by Eric Koegel)
<eric_the_idiot> that announce bot is quick
<Spass> akxwi-dave: thanks, so I will try installing with auto-resize then, is it to early to test the daily AA builds from ISO tracker? if not, I will do the static test next week
<akxwi-dave> the AA builds are pretty stable at the moment, so now is the time to try it.. i.e you won't get any major problems with the first install of it.. Also there are a number of bugs found already,.. so will give you good one to look at and give you an idea of what to look for..
<pleia2> knome: sounds good
<knome> pleia2, so i was thinking following the dev.xubuntu.org directory structure but omitting dokuwiki files etc., effectively only adding themes and such
<knome> pleia2, maybe we want a script or some kind of README for setting the stuff too though?
<knome> pleia2, i guess we don't have server configuration that is obscure enough to not be easily reproducible?
<pleia2> it's all pretty simple apache
<knome> yeah
<knome> "Xubuntu Development Server" and xubuntu-development-server ok for title and url?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> good
<knome> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-development-server
<knome> ok, stuff should be there in one branch
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-05
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dict 0.8.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dict-0-8-0-released-tp49231.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.8.99 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-8-99-released-tp49232.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<elopio> bluesabre: I'm getting ready here, setting up the youtube video and sharing it. I'll send you the link in like 30 minutes
<knome> \o/
<flocculant> elopio: bunch of us are about - but no cams - what's the irc channel?
<knome> i don't mind at all if it is/can be this one
<elopio> flocculant: #ubuntu-on-air
<flocculant> ta
<knome> i guess we can do that too ;)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hellooooo
<knome> cutieface
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<Unit193> bluesabre: We're all happy you're here.
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> and there
<knome> and everywhere
<elopio> bluesabre: (and anybody else who wants to join the call) https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/zgol3c2iwbhknftpa62ahngscqe
<knome> elopio, do we have the link for followers?
<elopio> for people who just want to watch, and participate on IRC ubuntuonair.com
<knome> ok, cheers
<Unit193> knome: sorinello is here too. :P
<sorinello> yepp :P
<knome> whatever!
<knome> :P
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> Seems you don't keep track of your channels, knome.
<knome> no, i don't keep track of sorinello's channels
<Unit193> I do.
<knome> that's your headache ;)
<sorinello> it's easy to keep track of me, I'm everywhere :)
<elopio> you also feel free to ask questions in #ubuntu-on-air during the hangout
<sorinello> ok, so I can drop hangouts and watch the youtube live stream ?
<sorinello> because I don't have any questions :)
<bluesabre> Hey guys, come join :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: no cam 
<Unit193> bluesabre: I've got it open!
<knome> me too!
<knome> and 3 other people!
<sorinello> nothing on youtube
<knome> now there is
<sorinello> ok, started now
<knome> hello sean!
<flocculant> elopio: you'll find that we're answering questions on irc as well 
<bluesabre> flocculant: irc session date?
<bluesabre> location
<flocculant> bluesabre: it's in this channel - at 19:00 UTc on the 12th
<flocculant> bluesabre:  nice one :)
<knome> great work
<sorinello> congratulations :D
<bluesabre> thanks for the reminder knome :)
<knome> no worries :)
<sorinello> the tile from ubuntuonair.com is "Ubuntu Testing Day â Xubuntu" .. but this seemed like a general overview of xubuntu
<elopio> +1. Very nice bluesabre.
<bluesabre> thanks again elopio
<bluesabre> sorinello, I was prompted with "it will be a casual conversation" so I went with that :D
<elopio> oh damn, I still suck at this, I started talking with Sean focused :)
<sorinello> bluesabre, no, I think it is my mistake here. I see there is a playlist on Ubuntu on Air called "Ubuntu Testing Days" .. hence my confusion, I imagined this was a testing stream :))
<bluesabre> no problemo, folks can work out where the words are coming from :)
<sorinello> but it's actually totally something else
<flocculant> sorinello: if it had been the qa team in the seat it might well have been more that way
<elopio> sorinello: yes, we test during the whole friday, but on the hangout we just talk about random stuff.
<flocculant> but it wasn't ;)
<knome> elopio, you might want to check out https://github.com/knomepasi/ubuntu-community-wordpress-theme/ for the uoa website...
<Unit193> flocculant: Fine, next time you can take the call. :>
<knome> elopio, it's a wordpress theme that's designed to look like the new ubuntu.com and replace the old "light" theme UOA is using as well... screenshot at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/knomepasi/ubuntu-community-wordpress-theme/master/ubuntu-community/screenshot.png
<flocculant> Unit193: I was testing the webcam - to destruction
<sorinello> :)))
<sorinello> so next friday is the actual QA session on IRC
<bluesabre> Yes
<bluesabre> Do attend :)
<elopio> knome: looking nice. I would prefer not to deal with the wordpress there though... I will tell JosÃ©.
<knome> elopio, ack, feel free to point him to me :)
<flocculant> sorinello: yea - which I will be running - with a big stick in hand ;)
<sorinello> flocculant,  I hope I'll be able to attend, maye some long time questions will be answered
<flocculant> sorinello: there will be a mail to our mail lists during the week with set homework 
<elopio> knome: would you help adjusting the theme there? That would be great.
<knome> sorinello, you can always ask any questions on the channel
<knome> elopio, sure.
<elopio> knome: what's your email, to write you with JosÃ© CC.
<knome> pasi@shimmerproject.org
<elopio> :D
<sorinello> knome, I know, and I do ask :) just that I feel I need to know more before trying to help with testing. I have a QA background
<Unit193> elopio: What other interviews do you have coming up?
<flocculant> sorinello: then just jump in - like the rest of QA did ;)
<Unit193> sorinello: As mentioned in another channel, ISO tests are great, not a lot of them happen, specifically on hardware.
<knome> if it's an IS maintained site, just send them a RT asking them to add this theme for your installation (they've promised to maintain it centrally)
<elopio> Unit193: We still have to talk about kubuntu, ubuntu gnome, ubuntu kylin, ubuntu studio
<flocculant> sorinello: and re the session next week - if no-one shows up - it won't run
<knome> one that is done the rest is easy, as i imagine you have admin access to the site :)
<elopio> and then we jump to other cousins, like elementary and neon. And then we jump farther and talk about other distros like fedora and opensuse.
<sorinello> flocculant, Unit193 : I am using Xubuntu for 4 years now, on real machines and also on VM's .. I usually update 2-3 days after the release, but I could switch some of the VM's to dev channel, since I am not using critical systems
<elopio> well, that's the plan in my head anyway. I need to find all the contacts. Every week we just find what to talk about that friday.
<Unit193> elopio: Sounds like a lot of interviews.
<elopio> Unit193: yes, but we have a lot of fridays to fill
<elopio> Unit193: if you would like to learn about something, let me know and we'll throw it to the schedule.
<sorinello> Unit193, maybe a presentation of xubuntu-core :)
<Unit193> elopio: I wondered if you were moving on to other related flavors, or other teams.  You answered, thanks.
<Unit193> sorinello: That's really just a subset of Xubuntu, not a different flavor.
<flocculant> sorinello: if you've qa background you could look at the package tests we use - maybe come up with some ideas? you can add yourself to the qa blueprint work items :)
<sorinello> Unit193, : yeah I know, I'm also using that. very useful
<flocculant> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-a-qa and http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/377/builds/146768/testcases
<flocculant> anyway - it's almost tomorrow again - night all :)
<sorinello> flocculant, thing is that my qa background is not related to os testing, and  I have a lot of gray areas to fill :)
<flocculant> background is background :)
<sorinello> yeah, here is already tomorrow, so mighty night all :)
<flocculant> I don't work with computers at all - nor ever did ...
<Unit193> (Also if we did an 'Xubuntu core' one, I'd have to do the talking which is a nogo.)
<bluesabre> Unit193: btw, thanks for jumping in and fielding questions
<Unit193> bluesabre: Of course!  Happy to help since you're doing all the talking.
<bluesabre> Dinner time for me, bbl
<Unit193> Eat well.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-06
<Unit193> Looks like xfdesktop4 and -screenshooter are nogo for now, will pickup dict and push to art.
<Unit193> (Uploaded -dict, too.)
<sorinello> Unit193, what are yo working on ?
<sorinello> portiong to GTK 3 ?
<Unit193> Not really, xfce4-dict 0.8.0 was released, it marks the stable series of -dict that supports GTK3.  I pushed it to Artful.
<sorinello> (what is Artful ? 17.10 ?)
<Unit193> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2017-May/000511.html
<Unit193> Yes.
<sorinello> thanks
<Unit193> !info xfce4-dict artful
<ubottu> xfce4-dict (source: xfce4-dict): Dictionary plugin for Xfce4 panel. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.99-0ubuntu1 (artful), package size 142 kB, installed size 923 kB
<knome> pleia2, do we want wallpaper sources in the marketing or artwork branch?
<knome> bbl ->
<flocculant> knome: at some point can we have package tracker on qa tab pretty please :)
<knome> flocculant, package tracker link?
<knome> flocculant, if that ^, it's done
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-07
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<pleia2> knome: good question re: screenshots, probably marketing
<knome> pleia2, oki, i'll push later today
<knome> did some cleanup on my xubuntu files...
<knome> pleia2, what about the html template we're using for mailman?
<knome> pleia2, should i just push it to static. with the assets?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that's not exactly the "correct" place, but at least it would be discoverable..
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> are we ok with how the community wallpaper stuff is archived atm?
<knome> i have the files for the 14.04 contest "nicely" here, do we want them like that or just get on with the wiki/wp stuff?
<knome> (it's a relatively big bunch of stuff, so i'm inclined to bend to the "wiki/wp is ok" side)
<pleia2> where is it?
<knome> i have it locally
<knome> but we have the 14.04 stuff in the ubuntu wiki
<knome> and the 16.04 stuff in the dev server wp
<pleia2> ah
<knome> theoretically it should be quite easy to write a short export script for the wp site to get a nice output for the stuff
<knome> if we need 
<pleia2> there are all the submissions?
<knome> yes
<pleia2> I see, I'm not sure
<knome> aha, i'll keep them for now then
<knome> also, i guess we'll want the linuxidentity mag articles in the marketing branch?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i have some "drafts"
<knome> but they are like the final versions
<knome> anyway, bbiab
<knome> ok, wallpapers pushed --> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/xubuntu-marketing/current/files/head:/wallpapers/sources/
<knome> have fun playing with them :P
<knome> hmm, i need to update the logo directory
<knome> oh, nopes
<pleia2> :)
<knome> what i really should do is the "middle one" and convert all existing stuff to that
<knome> middle one being with whiskers that are between both versions in width
<knome> then stop using the two different versions
<knome> we can just do optimized versions for small sizes if needed
<knome> (and we have)
<knome> off to watch a movie
<knome> will be back even later today
<knome> o/
<pleia2> yeah I never kept track of whisker widths ;)
<pleia2> enjoy
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r512 Remove the rounded corners (by Jonathan)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r511 Create gnome-shell.css... (by Jonathan)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-30
<Unit193> knome: I build locally and rsync to my server on new changes
<Unit193> So, not tags.
<knome> Unit193, if you wanted to keep the "official" online docs updated as well, i wouldn't mind...
<knome> Unit193, you have access to the server, right?
<flocculant> bluesabre: so Thunar now has a fit when you unmount something :)
<flocculant> didn't notice it myself previously - went back to non-ppa thunar - could see it
<flocculant> bug 1762595
<ubottu> bug 1762595 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar incorrectly thinks USB storage device hasn't finished ejecting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762595
<flocculant> got backtrace - and strace till I killed it 
<flocculant> we want a bugzilla report as well as the LP one?
<flocculant> ftr - don't see the issue in 1.7.2
<flocculant> always good to have a thunar sru at lts time :)
<flocculant> oooh nice - so pcmanfm closes if I unmount a usb or volume
<flocculant> no idea in nautilus as apparently one doesn't need to unmount nor eject there
<flocculant> so I assume it's not thunar if pcmanfm dies?
<leigh> Hi. The move to trash option in Thunar does a permanent delete for files on my external disk (it works for files on laptop). How can I change this please?
<leigh> 18.04
<leigh> Delete key moves to trash on laptop but permanently deletes on removeable media (external disk)
<leigh> was also like this on 16.04 IIRC
<leigh> oops, thought I was in #xubuntu - sorry!
<Unit193> knome: I do have access, but you'd want the development target?
<knome> Unit193, hum?
<krytarik> Yes, nobody likes stale stuff.. :3
<knome> for contributor docs, it can be as far as vcs is
<knome> and we really should split the two docs, but we also need to create a unified "style" branch for docs, wiki, website, tracker, ...
<knome> or it will really have to be pulled to two places
<knome> but
<knome> MEH
<knome> :)
<Unit193> knome: Ah, contributor only, OK.  In order to enable that, either have to give my user write permission, add a cronjob, or something as it's automated on my end. ;3
<knome> i guess user docs could be tip too, but then we'd need to prepare potential post-release stuff in other branches
<knome> but that's probably what we'd do anyway so...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-01
<Unit193> I mean, it's fine.  It's really not complicated for me to only sync up contributor.
<Unit193> The only "downside" is that you'll start getting the translations too. :3
<krytarik> It's ok, everybody loooves translations!
<Unit193> Very incomplete ones? :)
<krytarik> You still got 20% there? :P
<Unit193> Yep.
<krytarik> It's still 20% at least though..
<Unit193> Just need a non-interactive way to do it. :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-2-released-tp50964.html (by Andre Miranda)
<krytarik> flocculant: https://sourceforge.net/p/pcmanfm/bugs/1053/ - is this what happened on PCManFM earlier, or no tabs open either?
<flocculant> no tabs
<krytarik> Ugh, ok then.
<flocculant> sorry :p
<flocculant> I mentioned it to wxl/simon
<flocculant> I assume you saw talk of cosmic  in -release
<krytarik> I saw Cosmic talk everywhere! >_>
<flocculant> well
<krytarik> But yeah, the other thing - and I agree there of course.
<flocculant> the installer other thing?
<krytarik> (Gitifying the seeds.)
<flocculant> oh right that
<krytarik> And yes, that too - but I don't see that affecting us anytime soon yet.
 * flocculant waits for them to muck about with the testcases and that'll be something else I can stop doing :p
<flocculant> well no - I'd not be impressed in that lol
<krytarik> Also, wrt the above I was gonna say, I first looked for any newly filed bugs on GVFS yesterday - but didn't find any yet.
<flocculant> well it mightn't be new of course
<flocculant> I'm kind of waiting for someone to confirm issues with pcmanfm then I'll find time to muck about with gvfs
 * flocculant did get backtrace/strace for both thunar and pcmanfm
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-sensors-plugin 1.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-sensors-plugin-1-3-0-released-tp50966.html (by Fabian Nowak)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-02
<flocculant> someone devish should reply to the panic thread on the release list
<ochosi> flocculant: you mean the switch to git?
<knome> also we should discuss about moving to git completely with xubuntu
<knome> since there are several people who prefer it to bzr but none who explicitly prefer bzr (apart from maybe preferring it because it is what we use now and change means work, like me)...
<knome> i mean i'd have no issues moving to all-git if somebody who is knowledgeable enough about the things required to do the migration is willing to do it all..
<knome> pleia2, i think we should drop deviantart from https://xubuntu.org/contact/, it's really stale and the featured desktop thing still isn't going. thoughts?
<pleia2> +1
<pleia2> I was never a fan anyway ;)
<knome> done
<knome> updated the website artwork with the new stuff i drew at some point
<ochosi> knome: i agree to the proposal but not to doing the work ;)
<knome> yeah, i laid it out like that because i wanted the git-fanatics to do the work... :P
<knome> i'm pretty sure whoever was in the new council (for which we have no nominations yet...), they'd agree with the statement that it's ok to migrate to git too :P
<flocculant> ochosi: ack
<flocculant> knome: and me - who really isn't wanting to get into learning something new
<tracker5> Hey Xubuntu-Developers! Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for the latest release. I just migrated from the last LTS and it was a smooth ride after all. Still looks familiar ... I guess I won't notice the upgrade anymore after afew days. This is how I like it: The OS does its job and goes out of my way. Thanks for the good job on this!
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: do either of you remember if ali1234 ever pushed his gradient replace scripts and the svgtopng.py anywhere?
<knome> no?
<knome> i mean i don't remember..
<Unit193> As far as git stuff is, I'd volunteer but I don't think I'm a git fanatic, so will have to leave it to someone else. :>
<knome> hah
<knome> i mean we can just continue using bzr too...
<Unit193> !info brz bionic
<ubottu> brz (source: breezy): easy to use distributed version control system. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.0~bzr6852-1 (bionic), package size 36 kB, installed size 72 kB
<knome> brz?:P
<Unit193> Yes, bzr is so dead, the maintainers forked it to convert to py3...
 * knome shrugs
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-03
<Spass> suggestion - make Orage Globaltime display some major cities by default after fresh install, now it looks empty and its window is just tiny
<bluesabre> knome: was actually wanting to move all of our branches to git this cycle
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/xubuntu-18.10
<Unit193> >  Maintain packaging in vcs, ideally somewhere on launchpad.
<bluesabre> (for simpler permission management)
<Unit193> You want Vcs-bzr, right?
<bluesabre> vcs-git in the end, unless lp's git repos don't work with ubuntu one
<Unit193> I'm not sure what we've got that's not in vcs, besides sn-plug
<Unit193> (I'm making a bad bzr joke.)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> 6AM, can't process jokes :)
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git/xfdashboard/
<bluesabre> rad
<bluesabre> guessing lp doesn't have a repo browser, so we could just list the git repos easily?
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git
<bluesabre> awesome :D
<bluesabre> so, that item is already complete
<bluesabre> Unit193, you're pretty dependable
<Unit193> Oh, sorry.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> does 18.10 have a name? I saw Simon Quigley mention "Cosmic"
<Unit193> I have not responded to that one guy that emailed us, but was getting there.
<Unit193> Cosmic CANIMAL, so half-named.
<bluesabre> neat
<Unit193> Could use 'devel' anyway. :>
<bluesabre> I'll go around and update branches later if you haven't already beat me to it
<bluesabre> Cosmic Capybara would be good, I think
<Unit193> I liked other names..
<Unit193> 'Chthonic Cthulhu' might have been my fav.
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, i notied that
<knome> +c
<knome> bluesabre, now the question is if you want to handle the migration..
<flocculant> Spass: why on earth would I want to remove some random cities from a plugin - just so I can then edit it to have sensible ones?
<flocculant> knome: you around later this evning at all?
<Spass> flocculant, yes I understand that my suggestion may sound ridiculous to you :) but I still think that having some "random" major cities (3-5) there is better than that - https://imgur.com/vkwqUPs
<Spass> you're a power user so editing/removing those cities is a piece of cake, but new user who opens this application for the first time may just think "what the hell is that tiny thing?"
<Spass> my opinion
<flocculant> Spass: if we take that thinking one step further - shall we default to opening apps on the desktop so that notifications isn't empty? 
<flocculant> Spass: hang on - we don't actually have that in the panel - it's just installed
<Spass> yes, it's a separate app in Accessories
<flocculant> then I'm even more opposed to it :D
<flocculant> at some point people need to try and work out what they have - nothing to do with being a power user/normal user
<Spass> I don't agree, but I'm humble enough to understand, that my opinion doesn't matter here :) but hey, it's good to have some suggestions, right?
<flocculant> of course you opinion matters - I just disagree :)
<flocculant> if you want to - there's nothing stopping you adding it to the agenda for community meetings - as long as you show up to discuss it with people
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Spass> sure, I'll try to be here on the next meeting, is it scheduled already?
<flocculant> nope - but you can add things to the agenda still
<Spass> ok thanks
<flocculant> no problem :)
<Spass> I'm new to this so I don't want to mess something up, how to edit that wiki page? I'm logged in
<flocculant> ummm
<flocculant> not got time to look at that with yuou now - just add it - if it's not quite right someone will tidy it up
<krytarik> LP bug 1768844.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768844 in numlockx (Ubuntu) "Numlock key turns on constantly, must push twice to turn off" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768844
<krytarik> From #xubuntu earlier today.
<flocculant> oh dear
<tracker6> Buenas estoy probando el xubuntu 18.04lts y solo e encontrado un fallo que no tenÃ­a el 16.04lts  que es el brillo  de la  pantalla  que no responde  con el teclado ni sube  ni baja.  Aque es debido 
<krytarik> !es | tracker6
<ubottu> tracker6: En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba " /join #ubuntu-es " (sin comillas) y presione intro.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.13.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-13-3-released-tp50973.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-04
<Unit193> knome: Oh hah, so the contributor docs are owned by you, so I guess not really a problem to change permissions/ownership then. :P
<knome> Unit193, mm? :)
<Unit193> contributor docs.
<knome> yes?
<Unit193> On the server, I thought it'd be owned by something else.  Meaning it can be changed to something such that I can rsync.
<flocculant> 32 bit seems to be dropping like flies from flavours this week
<slickymasterWork> kind of expected flocculant 
<flocculant> indeed
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-05
<ochosi> hey ali1234, wanted to ask you if you ever pushed your gradient-replace python script anywhere (or maybe you already told me before and i forgot or "lost" it again)
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2jWWK8CsGt/
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g9SytbbrJS/
<ali1234> thats it
<flocculant> ochosi: perhaps we need some sort of testcase to check theming issues??
<ochosi> flocculant: not sure, it would basically be like "look around for things that look wrong"...
<ochosi> theres the widget factory for gtk2 and 3
<ochosi> thats how i usually test greybird
<ochosi> and in terms of missing icons we also just need ppl looking  around for things that seem out of place
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> just a thought 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-06
<knome> Unit193, right, yes
<Unit193> pa, verve, whisker up.  Latter two can sync.
<Iolo> j #xubuntu-offtopic
<Iolo> oops, sorry about that
<Unit193> knome: You gonna fix 'em permissions for me?
<Tonialv> hola
<Tonialv> alguien ha instalado freecad en xubunto 18.04?
<Unit193> You may wish to use #xubuntu for support, or #ubuntu-es if you plan to speak in Spanish.
<Tonialv> Has anyone installed freecad in xybuntu 18.04?
<Unit193> Someone somewhere might have, I don't know really.  I haven't.
<Tonialv> my problem is that the icon is not installed in the menu
<ochosi> bluesabre: we may want to pull in this tiny fix to 18.04 asap, otherwise the ratings in gnome software remain broken... https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/9efbd4a14cbae1a8b05536afff262b67ead6d33e
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, sounds like a plan
<ochosi> ali1234: mousepad doesnt have a "disable-server" option here, what's that supposed to do?
<ali1234> stops it from opening a new window in the existing process and then immediately exiting
<ochosi> odd, why would it not have that option here
<ochosi> so you just manually replaced the colors in mousepad in each file..?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> wouldn't a sed type of replacement with python have been much easier?
<ochosi> or was that too error-prone for some reason
<ali1234> it would have taken much longer to code it
<ali1234> doing it by hand only took about 20 minutes
<ochosi> true, plus that's still much less than doing it with inkscape :D
<ochosi> ali1234: i just tried with a similar use-case with atom (search and replace over the whole project) and it took 1min :>
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-29
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=892010
<ubottu> Debian bug 892010 in exo-utils "exo-utils: exo-preferred-applications does not run with error "exo-helper-1: not found"" [Normal,Open]
<brainwash> should this be fixed in 19.04?
<brainwash> -> SRU
<brainwash> it does not affect xubuntu-desktop, but xfce4
<bluesabre> I think so
<bluesabre> Also recently moved more things into exo-2, not released yet... that should likely resolve any more issues of that sort
<bluesabre> Looking at the release notes, that might still be present in 19.04
<brainwash> see https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=13000
<bluesabre> I see
<bluesabre> Unit193: I moved several things around (exo-1 -> exo-2, some things to exo-common, unversioned scripts)... do you foresee any issues with that related to packaging/package updates? https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/log/ (since 0.12.4)
<bluesabre> Been hesitant to release because I figure that would annoy some packagers :)
<Spass> something important possibly - https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=52644#p52644
<Unit193> New path so doesn't need breaks/replaces, -helpers might need a versioned dep but that's fine.  I can't really think of anything, I presume nothing external uses these.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-datetime-plugin 0.7.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-datetime-plugin-0-7-1-released-tp53258.html (by Sean Davis-6)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-places-plugin 1.8.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-places-plugin-1-8-0-released-tp53273.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-5-released-tp53275.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<Unit193> Boy is *someone* busy!
<bluesabre> Boy is *someone* tired
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Wanted to clear some of my list
<bluesabre> Tomorrow, applying more patches to things
<bluesabre> Wooooo
<Unit193> Have fun? :3
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Indeed (probably)
<bluesabre> Have a good night!
<brainwash> bluesabre, Unit193: parole and -settings need a new version string https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Unit193> I believe I can't touch those repos.
<bluesabre> Yeah, need to get those moved to xubuntu-dev
<bluesabre> (and fixed while I'm at it)
<Unit193> ...I'd say "and git", but that'd require the imports to move to git too.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-02
<guiverc> 19.10 live test; shouldn't CTRL+ALT+T still open a xfce4-terminal ?
<guiverc> (it's doing nothing for me)
<Spass[m]> is Super+T working?
<guiverc> sorry Spass[m], I use an old model m keyboard, no super key
<guiverc> i'll try it on another box that has a 35 year younger keyboard...
<guiverc> Spass[m], on second box; ctrl+alt+T does nothing,  super+t also does nothing; then i loaded `xev` & can see it detect keystrokes though
<Spass[m]> hmm, maybe it's related to this? https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=52644#p52644
<Spass[m]> guiverc: do you have libexo-1-0 installed?
<guiverc> will look..
<guiverc> dpkg -l responds 'ii  ..' so yep  (box is in another room)
<guiverc> Spass[m], i just had bug 1821652 again, so ran the command Theo said to fix my screens (`XFSETTINGSD_DEBUG=1 xfsettingsd --replace --no-daemon` to gain debug info, which also fixes my screen issue) and NOW CTRL+ALT+T works too ??!!
<ubottu> bug 1821652 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "unable to change display orientation on 19.04 xubuntu daily (live - 20190325) " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821652
<guiverc> super+T is working too !
<guiverc> do you want a bug report over ctrl+alt+f/super+t or can I ignore?
<guiverc> s/ctrl+alt+f/ctrl+alt+t/ ^
<Unit193> guiverc: xfsettingsd is what interprets those keystrokes to open the terminal, so if it wasn't running (or running properly) then launching/replacing it would indeed fix it.
<brainwash> guiverc: did you actually check if all other keybinds are working?
<Unit193> bluesabre: We going all in this round, xfwm4 and xfce4-session too? :3
<guiverc> Unit193, thanks, brainwash not that i can recall. i just woke up, so i'll endeavour to look in a few hours
<bluesabre> Unit193: you betcha, we're going for it all
<Unit193> :3
<guiverc> brainwash, the keybindings (those tried) all work after xfsettings command is executed; but NOT before [xfset..] on d780 (optiplex) box
<Unit193> So, why isn't xfsettingsd starting with the session, I wonder..
<guiverc> i'll boot & play with the thumbdrive (daily) on other boxes..  
<brainwash> Unit193: or why is crashing/hanging
<brainwash> I don't think that anything changed recently, so the daily iso should still be mostly 19.04
<brainwash> well
<brainwash> -settings should be new
<brainwash> just remembered that
<brainwash> 4.13.4 -> 4.13.5
<guiverc> fyi: another box can't use ctrl+alt+t  (i can't try super bindings sorry; another 80s model m keyboard)
<brainwash> there should be other keybinds which don't use the super key
<guiverc> i'll look.
<brainwash> print key for xfce4-screenshooter I think
<guiverc> nah, ctrl-esc, alt+fn not doing anything, and no prtscr does nothing
<brainwash> xfsettingsd process is present?
<guiverc> if i execute the xfsett... command all keys work
<guiverc> (i've switched to another box; that's in this room!)
<brainwash> you mentioned that already
<guiverc> nah it was a different box yes, but another box in another room. 
<guiverc> NOTE: this box the keybinding work on boot!  
<guiverc> (the first three were all dell optiplex's, c2d & c2q's, this is later i5)
<brainwash> did you test with the 19.04 iso yet?
<Unit193> guiverc: Can you see if the process was running but not functioning, or whatnot?  Also, ~/.xsession-errors?
<guiverc> found 19.04 daily (20190416) & keybindings WORK as booted (prtscr, ctrl+alt+T)
<guiverc> (i was looking for thumbdrive to write to, that 19.04 was already on drive so used that)
<guiverc> ps:  that was tested on first box I had issues with; c2d d755(-8)
<guiverc-unreg> cat .xsession-errors |pastebinit -->  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SrFxVJxPSW/
<guiverc-unreg> ps -elf |grep xf |pastebinit --> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SNZKntRPVs/
<guiverc-unreg>    , sorry Unit193 not sure what check you want me to perform
<Unit193> Huh, I don't see anything in .xsession-errors that'd account for that.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-03
<guiverc> Do you want me to file a lp.bug.report for the issue, or shall i ignore for now
<guiverc> keybindings were good on thinkpad sl510, but don't work on thinkpad x201
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-05
<flocculant> upgrading to eoan now 
<flocculant> still about enough to test the dev version for us 
<knome> <3
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-27
<jphilips> Unit193: was running core in a VM with 1.5gb of ram and this is what i got from 'free -m'. does this look correct?
<jphilips> total=1469 used=453 free=065 cache=950 available=828
<jphilips> this is from the regular version
<jphilips> total=1469 used=496 free=119 cache=853 available=780
<jphilips> lotuspsychje in #ubuntu-quality said: there's a guy claiming that a latest xubuntu iso still has that fsck:md5sums% bug, think that would be the case still?
<sorinello> Hello. is it normal if sudo do-release-upgrade does not find the 20.04 new version, even after 4 days since the release ?
<jphilips> sorinello: if you want to quickly upgrade use 'update-manager -d'
<jphilips> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/tutorial-upgrading-ubuntu-desktop#3-check-for-updates
<sorinello> yes, I was expecting the new release to be available withoug using the developer mode
<jphilips> did you check your upgrade setting in 'software & upgrades'
<sorinello> yes. any new version, check daily
<jphilips> no idea. maybe check this vid for help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr3HA3jw1vg
<sorinello> jphilips, it works if I try with -d, but without -d it doesn't find any new version
<jphilips> sorinello: guess it works just like the -d for update-manager
<sorinello> I don't understand why devel-release since it has already been released
<brainwash> are you upgrading from 19.10?
<sorinello> yes
<brainwash> I assume that it's a staged rollout
<brainwash> and maybe it has not even begun yet
<sorinello> so many days after the release ? I was expecting it to be available the next day after the release
<jphilips> yep a number of people on twitter have mentioned the same, so i've told them to use 'update-manager -d'
<brainwash> the xubuntu team does not control this
<sorinello> yes, I know this is not xubuntu related
<sorinello> thanks for the info, I don't know and what happens behind the curtain when a new version is out
<brainwash> I wouldn't worry too much about it
<brainwash> it has only been 4 days
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-28
<jphilips> was checking the xubuntu-dev ppa and many of the 18.04 builds arent working
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/E6kTlJY.png
<bluesabre> I wonder what the best way is to track these misc. tasks...
<bluesabre> Maybe we should revive the team trello (https://trello.com/xubuntuteam)
<bluesabre> I need to put a meeting together :D
<jphilips> would assume the builds not working should email the team
<bluesabre> Yeah, it does... at least some parts of the team, but they only build when a new commit is pushed.
<bluesabre> Suppose I should just get it fixed. 
<bluesabre> I'll try to tackle some open items tonight.
<bluesabre> Added fixing those builds, xubuntu.org/screenshots, and xubuntu.org/tour to my list so they'll stay on my mind.
<bluesabre> jphilips: was there anything else that you were waiting on from myself or the team?
<bluesabre> besides a meeting and talking about bridges, that is
<jphilips> nothing comes to mind, though as 20.10 is branched, i would like to start putting in my UI/UX suggestions, so would need guidance to do so
<bluesabre> Alrighty, I'll make sure all the code branches are where they need to be tonight, then point you in the right direction. Adding to my list.
<bluesabre> bbl
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.14.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-14-4-released-tp58691.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<jphilips> is it a known issue that the lock screen shows up while watching a video on youtube
<ochosi> depends on whether the browser inhibits the screensaver
<ochosi> i think chrome does that
<jphilips> was watching it in firefox
<bluesabre> xfce4-screensaver has a setting, Inhibit screensaver for fullscreen applications
<bluesabre> since browsers are not consistent about their inhibiting
<bluesabre> and neither are games
<Unit193> The mentioned PPA is daily builds, so not really as important as the backports PPA.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-29
<jphilips> was curious why thunar-shares-plugin isnt available in the repo and only in ppa
<jphilips> sudo apt update
<jphilips> wrong window :D
<bluesabre> knome: small tweak to the website theme for gutenberg galleries, otherwise all newly created or updated galleries have a ">" before every image (shoving into custom css for now)... `li.blocks-gallery-item::before { display: none !important; }`
<jphilips> bluesabre: are you the dev working on power manager?
<bluesabre> jphilips: that'd be ochosi
<bluesabre> I'm screensaver
<Unit193> And parole.
<jphilips> oh okay, as the laptop lid option doesn't have an option to do nothing
<jphilips> using an external keyboard, mouse and display and i prefer the laptop lid be closed while i'm doing that
<jphilips> for those that missed my ML email, here is the google doc about ideas and roadmap work on documentation https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oGNc4nDmUkhk67-S07VKhOQ7tSWXUW6ureG8N7SVM_o/edit#
<jphilips> bluesabre: didn't hear back from you on telegram or irc what time on saturday or sunday would be good fro you
<jphilips> i'm gmt+4 and bernardo is gmt+1 and you are gmt-4
<bluesabre> jphilips: after 12 UTC would be ideal, otherwise it will be dark :)
<bluesabre> !team | screenshots and tour pages have been updated, xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork have been branched for groovy
<ubottu> screenshots and tour pages have been updated, xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork have been branched for groovy: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> I'll see about kicking all the PPAs tonight/tomorrow
<jphilips> is saturday or sunday your preference. 12 utc is 8am your time, so how early do you want to get up on a weekend :D
<bluesabre> Either should be fine. I try to be accomodating with time since most of my FOSS buddies are not in the US. 14 utc would be preferred.
<jphilips> okay will check with bernardo
<Unit193> bluesabre: Groovy.
<Unit193> I should push that translation stuff sometime soon then.
<jphilips> any thoughts what maybe causeing just the wallpaper area to do this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWuRZHxXkAI2Mww?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
<jphilips> https://www.reddit.com/r/softwaregore/comments/g9wq98/xubuntu_is_interesting/
<bluesabre> Unit193: please do
<bluesabre> jphilips: yes, that's this bug (from the release notes)
<bluesabre> > AMD Graphics: Block staircase display with side-by-side monitors of different pixel widths (LP: #1873895, Fixed upstream, SRU expected for 20.04.1)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1873895 in xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu (Ubuntu) "Regression: block staircase display with side-by-side monitors of different pixel widths" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873895
<bluesabre> Assuming he's using AMD, this was also mentioned on the release announcement :)
<bluesabre> > Users with AMD graphics may experience significant graphical issues and should consider waiting until the release of 20.04.1 later this year.
<bluesabre> bbl
<jphilips> okay thanks
<spazmantiz> hey guys, i got issue with the compositor it's causing my screen to glitch...before that, when i use xubuntu 19.10 it's went fine
<spazmantiz>  any idea?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Dumped some things into the backports PPA.
<Unit193> (So it exists for focal if it didn't before.)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-30
<jphilips> Have others notice unknown 'Volume' entry on their desktops? Someone on twitter had mentioned it and when i was trying 18.04 in a VM, i did notice them appear on the desktop as well
<jphilips> i went into desktop properties and disabled the 'removable devices' tree entry and they still stayed
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/GpSJ7BP.png
<jphilips> one of the two 'Volume' entries appeared after i installed gparted from the terminal
<jphilips> there is no means to mount them and not sure how to find what they are
<jphilips> bluesabre: looking at the release notes page, another thing you should add to your list which we previously discussed was the alternative window managers for the VNC problem
<Unit193> I use xfwm4 and vnc, no issues.
<jphilips> with tightvncserver
<jphilips> this was in the known issues "Window decorations are not displayed with tightvncserver. Users depending on VNC are advised to wait until 20.04.1 or use an alternative window manager for VNC until this is resolved."
<Unit193> Ah, I use x11vnc.
<jphilips> Unit193: trying to write a sentence to differentiate the regular version from core, so what would you call the regular edition? Xubuntu Desktop, Xubuntu Full, Xubuntu Default
<Unit193> 'Xubuntu' technically would even do, but I'd say that or desktop.
<jphilips> how does this sound
<jphilips> Xubuntu comes in two editions - Xubuntu Desktop and Xubuntu Core. Xubuntu Desktop is the primary edition targeting the regular user and comes fully featured with all the needed software, including apps like a browser, email client, chat client, text editor, office suite, media player, and graphical package manager. While Xubuntu Core is a slimmed down edition with none of these apps and fewer plugins and libraries, making it a smaller download, 
<jphilips> lighter on resources and a cleaner base to create your own custom OS.
<jphilips> i was trying ubuntu core and clicking on 'browse network' in thunar doesnt work, is that intended?
<Unit193> Are gvfs-fuse and gvfs-backends installed?
<jphilips> just running off the live session
<jphilips> i closed the VM already
<Unit193> I'd have to re-check the manifest.
<jphilips> is this something we should consider doing, to better know our users - https://draugeros.org/go/2020/04/20/hardware-and-installation-reporting/
<jphilips> Unit193: ^
<Unit193> Sounds a little outside scope.
<Unit193> Though sure, conceptually speaking opt-in stats can be interesting.
<jphilips> even ubuntu is doing opt-in stats on first run
<brainwash> jphilips: those mysterious Volumes are the mount points for individual snap packages I think
<jphilips> brainwash: not sure how snap mounts would appear for an installation of gparted
<jphilips> or is that part of apt process to mess with snaps
<jphilips> i first one i believe appeared when i was installing the opera .deb file through gnome software
<jphilips> the* first one
<brainwash> then it's something different
<jphilips> any thoughts on how to track what it is down
<brainwash> in the case which I described they would be labeled "4.1KB Volume"
<Unit193> What's `mount` say?
<jphilips> wouldnt allow me to mount it
<jphilips> i checked gnome disks and they weren't appearing there
<jphilips> they do disappear after restarting
<knome> bluesabre, right, yes, that's already in the new theme :P
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-01
<jphilips> Unit193: commented on a youtuber's video that xubuntu core is available and this was his reply
<jphilips> "Its been horrific trying to get the core installer to work. Three attempts and about two hours of time spent on the install. Normal version was on first time and in less than 10 mins.
<jphilips> I was convinced my download was corrupted, but I compared the SHA256 hash and it was a match"
<Unit193> jphilips: OK..?
<Unit193> "Someone somewhere is having issues with the installer" unfortunately isn't something I can do anything with.
<jphilips> yep i know, just passing it along. here is the youtube comment
<jphilips> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLL78bMliZQ&lc=UgwM0v2gdrEPvDDWgnl4AaABAg.97sFFe50sbV984yhpWnSqw
<Unit193> Alrighty..
<Unit193> Err, where the did "87.5 GB free" come from?  It's wrong for minimum sys requirements though, perhaps recommended is good I guess.
<jphilips> 7.5 is supposed to be canceled out and it is supposed to be changed to '8 GB'
<jphilips> maybe i forgot the cross outline on the 7.5
<Unit193> Ahhh, OK.  That makes more sense than 87.5. :)
<Unit193> FWIW, the ISO actually has a file on it that notes the size of the uncompressed squashfs system.
<jphilips> oh okay. where can i find that file?
<jphilips> of course i was taking into account that the user needs a swap file and space for their home folder files
<Unit193> Note that it is the *bare* minimum, there should be more than that for wiggle room.
<Unit193> casper/filesystem.size
<Unit193> So: isoinfo -J -x /casper/filesystem.size -i focal-desktop-amd64.iso 
<Unit193> But again, at least 10 sounds pretty safe to me, despite what the file says. :)
<jphilips> 4.23gb for desktop
<jphilips> 2.5gb for core
<jphilips> though thats not taking into account the swap file
<Unit193> Some people don't create those. :3
<jphilips> of course, but i'm talking about the regular installation
<Unit193> But, like I said, I only objected to 80+, I'm good with what you're saying. :D
<jphilips> no way it would be 80+ when recommended is 20gb :D
<Unit193> I think the smallest I had Ubuntu on was 20G disk.
<Unit193> And by 'Ubuntu' I do not mean Mainbuntu.
<jphilips> Unit193: guess you didn't see the line in the 7.5 https://imgur.com/Vnj4blf.png
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.14.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-14-2-released-tp58793.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
<Unit193> jphilips: No, that doesn't show up in my email client (html or text rendered), nor https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011941.html
<jphilips> Unit193: its '<strike>7.5</strike>' here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20200501/54f38459/attachment-0001.html
<jphilips> so seems like your email client cant render html properly
<Unit193> I don't think people are going to click that when reading archives. :)  Amusingly, https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_strike.asp but this all seems a bit moot now.
<Unit193> (I doubt my client will do <del> either, but nor will lists.u.c)
<jphilips> the youtuber did his review video and included core - https://youtu.be/xYnzqtPiK7s?t=80
<jphilips> the crasher he experienced seems like the same one i had
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-02
<bluesabre> That xfwm4 release looks like a good SRU candidate.
<jphilips> bluesabre: this youtube mentioned some problem with the mouse cursor in snaps here https://youtu.be/xYnzqtPiK7s?t=337
<jphilips> youtuber*
<bluesabre> I'll have to experiment with that.
<jphilips> when he moves his mouse into the chromium or vlc windows, the mouse cursor turns black, strange that it would only effect xubuntu and not other flavors
<bluesabre> Right.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not really sure if I should go poking in here or -ot, but do you ever play with stuff like x2go?
<ochosi> bluesabre: +1 on xfwm4
<jphilips> for all those that want to join, we are having a docs meeting today at 3pm UTC on zoom or jitsi
<jphilips> if you have any suggestions to improvements to docs, please put them in here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oGNc4nDmUkhk67-S07VKhOQ7tSWXUW6ureG8N7SVM_o/edit#
<bluesabre> Unit193: first time I've ever heard of x2go
<Unit193> OK, nevermind then! :D
<jphilips> i heard about x2go from wimpy, he was always talking about it with mate
<Unit193> I tried that and nomachine a looong time ago but always got the default Xfce desktop (and usually corrupted Xubuntu), I decided to take a look into it again and set it up so it'd start the Xubuntu desktop.  Buuut...moot.
<Unit193> ochosi: You mentioned keepassxc, fwiw I packaged up the latest version if you wanted it.
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> yes, i wanna work in the timed copy support for keepassxc
<ochosi> to clipman
<ochosi> it was "almost finished" (tm)
<Unit193> Sooo, I'm guessing it's not needed.  Anyway, screw it.  I popped up the shiny xfconf to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages
<bluesabre> Shiny
<jphilips> bluesabre: its time now for the meeting
<bluesabre> If anybody wants to join us to talk docs...
<bluesabre> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/76702554053?pwd=Y2NGMTlVMi9iaWYxUUxqR3dqZWtBQT09
<bluesabre> Password is 5qFKzT
<Unit193> jphilips: You asked about thunar-shares-plugin, did I respond to that?
<jphilips> Unit193: don't think so. did you know why its not shipped by default
<Unit193> I mean samba isn't really shipped by default either, it's not in the repos because it's just yet another thing to maintain.  It's not in Debian because there's already a lot of packages and few maintainers, with logs of bug reports to handle.  We already have a few packages more than Debian, with questionable benefit.
<Unit193> Nobody has really pushed for it, so it's in a handy PPA and that's it.
<Unit193> xfdashboard is another we have over Debian, but I've heard from nobody that actually uses it.  Nobody in the team does.
<jphilips> i was thinking to suggest we ship samba by default or is there an alternative linux file sharing that is easy to configure and use
<jphilips> xfdashboard is used in voyager, xubuntu derivative
<Unit193> Err, no we don't really need samba.  A fair number of people don't really need it, those that do can install, and it does expose your system much more too.
<Unit193> Voyager != Xubuntu. :P
<Unit193> (Though good to know, I didn't know that they did.)
<jphilips> so what is the linux way to share files across the network?
<Unit193> Depends on the person, there's NFS and I use sshfs.
<jphilips> are these shipped by default and is there a means to enable the sharing of folders using these mechanisms through thunar
<jphilips> i was going through our docs looking for a means to do so, but nothing was on the internet/networks page https://docs.xubuntu.org/2004/user/C/internet-networks.html
<Unit193> That's because nobody ever wrote anything up, there's plenty of docs already for file sharing.  I believe there's a couple different in the Ubuntu docs.  The more docs we have, the more we have to maintain.  The goal is to keep the duplication down.
<Unit193> As, clearly, we're not great about writing docs. :D
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-docs
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): Xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 18.04.1 (disco), package size 4340 kB, installed size 11786 kB
<Unit193> > 18.04
<jphilips> well atleast we should link to the ubuntu docs from our docs
<jphilips> well we had a docs meeting today and hopefully that will all change
<Unit193> *hopefully* ;)
<jphilips> well i'm committed to it and so is bluesabre, and we have till the next release to fix it, so i'm quite sure its gonna happen :D
<jphilips> your help would also be appreciated
<Unit193> I have the translations and some local fixes, but most of those have been sitting there for quite some time.
<jphilips> main help for now is to identify what needs to be added, removed or fixed
<jphilips> this is the main doc we are working from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oGNc4nDmUkhk67-S07VKhOQ7tSWXUW6ureG8N7SVM_o/edit#
<jphilips> so if you read a docs page, just make a brief note of your thoughts
<jphilips> bluesabre: is looking into us possibly moving to some other infra like maybe wiki or github/gitlab
<jphilips> sorry that shouldnt have been a ping :D
<Unit193> Launchpad is the code hosting site for the rest of Ubuntu, it doesn't really make sense to move that. :/
<jphilips> i suggested that we make github the main and launchpad the mirror
<jphilips> sean will look into the various possibilities
<Unit193> Unfortunate, but alright then.
<Unit193> I guess I can just start pasting git format-patch into the channel if it doesn't work out :P
<jphilips> so i guess you dont have push rights then :D
<Unit193> On LP yeah, because I'm an xubuntu-dev member.
<jphilips> oh, so you mean you dont use gitlab/github, now i get you ;D
<Unit193> For the past release I didn't touch x-d-s much anyway though, mainly did the Xfce packaging.
<jphilips> do you do work also on the debian side as well?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-03
<Unit193> Yeah.
<jphilips> fosshost.org is offering us cloud computer power if we are interested
<xubuntu20> Dear all,I want to build an ubuntu iso from surce code. how can i do it ,thanks.
<Unit193> xfce4-panel 4.14.4-1 uploaded by Unit 193 (unit193)
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.14.2-1 uploaded by Unit 193 (unit193)
<Unit193> xfce4-session 4.14.2-1 uploaded by Unit 193 (unit193)
<ochosi> wee bugfixes
<TheMaster> Finally got around to doing them.
<TheMaster> So that -noifyd release...
<TheMaster> ochosi: Was 0.6.0 part of Xfce 4.15/4.16/development of some sort?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> notifyd is independent
<ochosi> as are all apps
<ochosi> it got a version bump because some visual stuff changed
<ochosi> new fallback class, new drawing routine
<TheMaster> ...Soo, is this something I want to avoid? :3
<ochosi> but i think it may make sense to wait for 0.6.1
<ochosi> for 20.04 you mean?
<TheMaster> Gotcha, thanks.
<ochosi> or for 20.10
<TheMaster> I was thinking for Debian and for myself actually, I'm presuming the plan is to go full ahead for 20.10.
<ochosi> mostly a small visual artifact left that is fixed in master
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i'd be happy to get more feedback
<ochosi> the drawing change was rather significant
<ochosi> made the code much more maintainable
<ochosi> and also fixed a few things as side effect
<TheMaster> OK, so since I'm waiting on .1, how about I PPA the current one at least.
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<TheMaster> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages there you go!  xfconf in there is what's really interesting, if someone wanted to test the gsettings backend.
<ochosi> yeah, i think i should give that a try
<ochosi> just too busy on too many sides atm
<TheMaster> Understandable.
