#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-21
<mdke_laptop> evenin'all
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> not much of a sleep Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> I got 9 hours
<Burgundavia> from sorry 7
<Burgundavia> from 9am to 4pm local
<mdke_laptop> LOL
<mdke_laptop> crazy
<Burgundavia> got the cool new theme?
<mdke_laptop> huh?
<Burgundavia> do you run hoary?
<mdke_laptop> yes
<mdke_laptop> is the human theme changed?
<Burgundavia> have you updated today?
<mdke_laptop> yes
<Burgundavia> yes, the progress bars are now brown and other cool things
<mdke_laptop> yes i thought i noticed a difference
<mdke_laptop> kewl
<Burgundavia> I like it
<Burgundavia> should we both with new screenshots?
<mdke_laptop> ?
<Burgundavia> things now look different
<mdke_laptop> right
<Burgundavia> I think we can simply leave it
<mdke_laptop> oh
<mdke_laptop> you mean bother
<mdke_laptop> gotcha now
<Burgundavia> oh
<Burgundavia> yet
<mdke_laptop> nah its cool to leave i think
<Burgundavia> s/yet/yes
<mdke_laptop> lol
<Burgundavia> my typing tends to suck
* mdke_laptop rubs sand out of Burgundavia 's eyes
<Burgundavia> why are you all trying to take care of me
<mdke_laptop> sorry
<Burgundavia> I am 22 dammit
<mdke_laptop> its in my own interests
<mdke_laptop> 22 huh
<mdke_laptop> i'm 23
<mdke_laptop> anyhow no offence intended
<Burgundavia> none taken
<Burgundavia> it takes a long more than that to offend me
<mdke_laptop> heh
<Burgundavia> what I really like about the new theme is how warm everything became
<Burgundavia> just a hint of brown in all the grey
<mdke_laptop> haven't really noticed the difference yet
<mdke_laptop> lemme restart some stuff
<mdke_laptop> aha
<mdke_laptop> that's better
<mdke_laptop> its a bit bright
<mdke_laptop> good tho
<mdke_laptop> evolution looks great with it
<mdke_laptop> ok sleep for me
<mdke_laptop> nite
<Burgundavia> cya
<Burgundavia> hey
<froud> Burgundavia: hi
<froud> much better, now that we are discussing changes
<abelli> mdke: /j irssi
<Burgundavia> hey
<froud> hey
<froud> patches look much better too :-)
<froud> nice small
<froud> of course it's easier when you have access
<froud> welcome
<Burgundavia> Are you advocating calling them programs or apps?
<froud> For GUI they are apps
<froud> for DOS/SHELL they are programs
<Burgundavia> but to a user that distinction doesn't exist
<froud> Genral documentation style guides such as that of Sun
<froud> use this distinction
<Burgundavia> I am saying that almost all users (the great unwashed) use program
<Burgundavia> that is our target audience, not power users
<froud> Windows users call GUI apps Applications
<Burgundavia> power users do
<froud> Its a Windows app
<froud> not a windows program
<froud> its a DOS program
<Burgundavia> from my time in the trenches of helpdesk, I heard the 2nd more often then not
<froud> that is the generally accepted convention
<Burgundavia> I understand the distinction myself, but I am saying that it doesn't exist in users minds
<Burgundavia> non-power non-developer users
<froud> Because histrorically there was a change in use of terms
<froud> we should stay with the change
<Burgundavia> but the change is to program
<froud> All styleguides make this distinction
<froud> no the change was from program to app
<Burgundavia> what does not define a language in a style guide
<Burgundavia> one defines it in the street, and that I what I hear
<froud> when the windows world came the term program was replaced with application
<froud> this is a question of style
<froud> no authors use styleguides
<froud> they are our standards
<Burgundavia> maybe in developers minds, but not in users
<froud> application program
<froud>      n : a program that gives a computer instructions that provide
<froud>          the user with tools to accomplish a task; "he has tried
<froud>          several different word processing applications" [syn: application,
<froud>           applications programme] 
<froud> The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (27 SEP 03) [foldoc] 
<froud> application program
<froud> 
<froud>         <programming, operating system> (Or "application", "app") A
<froud>         complete, self-contained program that performs a specific
<froud>         function directly for the user.  This is in contrast to system
<froud>         software such as the operating system kernel, server
<froud>         processes and libraries which exists to support application
<froud>         programs.
<froud> 
<froud>         Editors for various kinds of documents, spreadsheets, and
<froud>         text formatters are common examples of applications.  Network
<froud>         applications include clients such as those for FTP,
<froud>         electronic mail, telnet and WWW.
<froud> 
<froud>         The term is used fairly loosely, for instance, some might say
<froud>         that a client and server together form a distributed
<froud>         application, others might argue that editors and compilers
<froud>         were not applications but tools for building applications.
<froud> 
<froud>         One distinction between an application program and the
<froud>         operating system is that applications always run in "user
<froud>         mode" (or "non-privileged mode"), while operating systems and
<Burgundavia> ok
<froud>         related utilities may run in "supervisor mode" (or "privileged
<froud>         mode").
<Burgundavia> I understand what you are saying
<froud> 
<froud>         The term may also be used to distinguish programs which
<froud>         communicate via a graphical user interface from those which
<froud>         are executed from the command line.
<froud> Note
<froud> The term may also be used to distinguish programs which
<froud>         communicate via a graphical user interface from those which
<froud>         are executed from the command line.
<froud> not everything need be a debate
<froud> :-)
<Burgundavia> I am doing some digging on places like tucows and download.com
<Burgundavia> I have come across 1 entry of app to for every 10-20 of program
<froud> you dont give up do you
<froud> even when present with std's
<froud> do waht every you want
<Burgundavia> standards reflect what people say
<Burgundavia> I am tenancious
<Burgundavia> I don't mean to offend. I am looking to create the best document possible
<Burgundavia> that means easy to understand terminology
<froud> adhere to std create consitant usage and avoid conflict and confusion
<Burgundavia> This another street vs university thing
<Burgundavia> I like standards, that reflect common usage
<froud> and FOLDOC does not
<froud> so why not just write using colloquial language?
<froud> Like Howzit dude, hope you are bopping today.  Found Synaptic today, it toatally rocks
<Burgundavia> there can be a happy medium
<froud> where is the cut-off point
<Burgundavia> I don't think I have explained myself correctly
<Kinnison> Morning guys
<Burgundavia> You can be simple and consise, using common english words, without descending into street language
<froud> As authors of user manual there are known conventions we adhere to
<froud> morn
<Burgundavia> morn
<Burgundavia> I am at it again
<Burgundavia> stirring
<froud> yet another hot debate for your entertainment
<froud> well the let's put :-) ;-) :-/
<froud> into the docs
<froud> wow c flat
<froud> what a note
<Burgundavia> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=application&word2=program
<Burgundavia> I mean that is non-serious sort of way
<froud> oh please dude, because the majority of people don't know the diff and which is correct does not make it right
<froud> and that thing is not based on any context
<Burgundavia> or how about: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=application+kills+kittens&word2=program+kills+kittens
<Burgundavia> I think it is funny, but no weight
<Burgundavia> there is a distinction between a proscritive and a descriptive dictionary
<Burgundavia> s/proscritive/proscriptive
<Burgundavia> froud: I follow the will of the doc team. I am merely trying to raise points of debate, in the hopes of asking questions that might not have been asked before
<Burgundavia> At no point am I trying to offend anything that has already been done
<Burgundavia> make that anything that anybody has already done
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: ping
<c_> Burgundavia: any idea about htmlizing man pages?
<Burgundavia> I have never done it, but I imagine there would be tools for it
<c_> Burgundavia: yeah.. the problem is finding them:(
<Burgundavia> c_: there is a program in universe called man2html
<Burgundavia> it seems to generate them on the fly though
<c_> ive installed it..
<c_> but i can't find it..
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: what do you want?
<Burgundavia> well I drove froud out of the doc team
<Burgundavia> http://linux.com.hk/PenguinWeb/manpages.jsp
<Burgundavia> abelli: that will view fedora core 1 pages
<abelli> i n33d the d4rm ion3 man...
<abelli> :((
<abelli> Burgundavia: however, many thanks
<Burgundavia> I will keep looking
<abelli> Kinnison: any idea?
<Kinnison> abelli: about what?
<abelli> htmlizing man pages.
<abelli> ion3 man page
<Kinnison> If you install the man2html package then zcat /usr/share/man/....ion3.?.gz | man2html > /tmp/ion3.html should do the trick
<Kinnison> The hyperlinks will be a bit crud; but it should do the trick
<abelli> Kinnison: unbelievable.
<abelli> Kinnison: i owe you a pizza.
<Burgundavia> did it work?
<abelli> mmm
<Burgundavia> nice
<Burgundavia> have to remember that
<abelli> dunno, but are you saying that the Master might be wrong?
<Kinnison> Who is 'the Master' ?
<abelli> you..
<abelli> there's a problem..
* Kinnison blushes
<abelli> ive installed man2html's package..
<abelli> but it's not in PATH
<abelli> and i can't find it
<abelli> dohhh..
<abelli> myfault.
<Burgundavia> dpkg will tell you
<Kinnison> It *ought* to be /usr/bin/man2html
<abelli> dehiho it works
<abelli> 1 pizza, 3 SAMUEL SMITH'S OLD BREWERY PALE ALE BEER
<Kinnison> Gosh
<Kinnison> You'd better bring it over; I need lunch
<abelli> Kinnison: mm ill coming to london in the near future..
<abelli> but not now, i'm sorry
<Kinnison> abelli: Then when you do; we'll have to meet up and say "hi"
* Kinnison can get to london on about 2h notice
<abelli> sure
<abelli> mmm ill be telling u that far earlier ..
<abelli> lib_malloc.so
<abelli> what package are in ?
<abelli> btw does someone here know what burning app is going to be "supported" and if so, is it for hoary or h+1?
<Burgundavia> abelli: they are talking about gnomebaker and/or graveman
<abelli> Burgundavia: i sincerely like graveman.. which one is winning?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<abelli> Burgundavia: thank you
<ntoll> hi
<Burgundavia> hey
<ntoll> I just saw the comments about docs for windows migrators
<Burgundavia> that would be me who made it
<ntoll> on the ubuntu-users list
<Burgundavia> the 2nd that is
* Kinnison wonders if he has to tell Burgundavia to go to bed
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: yep
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: Dude; seriously; re-set your body clock
<ntoll> yup, I recognise the name
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: I have ;)
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: to what timezone?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Kinnison> tsk
<ntoll> Burgundavia, where are you? New Zealand?
<Burgundavia> Canada
<Burgundavia> west coast
<Burgundavia> 5:33am here
<ntoll> Burgundavia, aha, that explains it... anyway....
<Burgundavia> I gather you posted the initial stuff to the list?
<Kinnison> reset it to :Canada/Pacific
<ntoll> nope
<Burgundavia> oh
<ntoll> but I've done something similar for a lug I used to belong to
<Burgundavia> right now string freeze is several days away
<Burgundavia> a doc like that will have to miss Hoary
<Burgundavia> but there is no reason why we couldn't do something on the web
<ntoll> Burgundavia, I quite agree, some sort of wiki like collab tool
<Burgundavia> unfortunately, the current ubuntu wiki "could use some work" to say
<ntoll> anyway, I'd be interested in getting involved in helping to write the doc
<Burgundavia> most of the pieces are already there
<ntoll> for the doc or the wiki?
<ntoll> Burgundavia, if the doc where can I find it?
<Burgundavia> install the package quickguide to see our latest work
<ntoll> aha
<ntoll> brb telephone
<Burgundavia> might be ubuntu-quickguide or something
<ntoll> o.k. off the phone now....
<ntoll> is it html?
<Burgundavia> so primarly the docs are written in docbook, and parsed in yelp
<ntoll> aha
<Burgundavia> I am advocating moving to more web based system
<Burgundavia> but a good wiki is needed
<Burgundavia> so for the switchers doc
<ntoll> I see
<Burgundavia> we have an issue is that in some countries screenshots are copyright the program owner
<Burgundavia> ie. m$
<ntoll> hmph.... that sucks hard
<Burgundavia> however, we may be able to get away with some sort of 2 screenshots combined together with text over top
<Burgundavia> 1 from each system
<Burgundavia> that would probably be considered a new work, and thus our copyright
<ntoll> what about fair use clauses
<Burgundavia> don't exist in some countries
<egli> Burgundavia: why do you want to move away from docbook?
<Burgundavia> like germany, if I remember correctly
<Burgundavia> egli: faster changes, easier changes
<ntoll> hmmm.... so how does everyone else get around it
<ntoll> ?
<Burgundavia> To the best of my knowledge, they just talk about it, without showing it
<egli> Burgundavia: what about revision control
<ntoll> I mean, any newspaper or magazine that publishes a screenshot
<egli> what about generation of diffrerent output formats?
<Burgundavia> egli: froud and I had a long discussion of this
<Burgundavia> egli: He raised the same points
<egli> froud = Sean 
<egli> ?
<Burgundavia> yes
<egli> oh
<Burgundavia> they were good points
<Burgundavia> I say ship PDF's for those who have internet access with HTML as well
<Burgundavia> however, there is no good HTML to PDF renderer
<ntoll> can you not just say  All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.
<ntoll> The rest  2005 Ubuntu document developers R' US?
<egli> I like wikis but doku ought to be a little bit formal, i.e. svn + docbook ihmo
<Burgundavia> egli: Honestly, why?
<Burgundavia> ntoll: probably, but we would need to get a lawyer check on that
<egli> i'd like to be able to trace revision history
<egli> i like to add metadata (which I can do in docbook)
<ntoll> Burgundavia, o.k. so how do I get involved?
<Burgundavia> egli: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vancouver_International_Airport&curid=177015&diff=0&oldid=0
<egli> pdf can easily be generated from docbook
<Burgundavia> ntoll: here and on the mailing list ubuntu-dic
<Burgundavia> s/ubuntu-dic/ubuntu-doc
<enrico> Burgundavia: how come you hate DB so much?
<Burgundavia> DB?
<Burgundavia> docbook
<enrico> DocBook
<Burgundavia> I don't hate it
<ntoll> dicbook :-p
<Burgundavia> I just think that there are better ways of developing useful docs
<enrico> Burgundavia: books?
<Burgundavia> enrico: ?
<egli> besides gnome is using db for their docu. I think sean had some scheme how this stuff could be reused
<enrico> I mean, there's surely better ways to write tutorials or HOWTOs.  However, can you think of better ways to write books?
<Burgundavia> so is TLDP, Sun, etc.
<ntoll> have you guys seen silva? (http://www.infrae.com/products/silva) Might that be of use?
<Burgundavia> but 95% of what users really need is HOWTOs
<egli> Burgundavia: yes sure wiki has revisions but it's all web based
<ntoll> a plone based doc store
<Burgundavia> users need small bitsized chunks, right now
<Burgundavia> mostly
<Burgundavia> how do I check my email
<Burgundavia> how do I install a new program
<egli> ntoll: oh man not another weirdo solution when we have one that works
<enrico> Burgundavia: so 95% of the work won't be in DocBook.  But the remaining 5%, it's got its use
<enrico> I can't think about a work like the QuickGuide made with a different system
<ntoll> egli, weido? :-) I was trying to find a happy medium for you two, web based yet exports to printable formats like pdf
<Burgundavia> There is a reason most people link to ubuntuguide.org
<enrico> (since its best use is to be printed in a booklet to be read by someone trying out the distro)
<Burgundavia> because it is good
<Burgundavia> enrico: for that we would need sometime really pamphlet sized, and yes something like that would go better not-webbased
<Burgundavia> svn and docbook are very good at what they do
<enrico> Ok, we agree then.  I was worried you were focusing on the medium more than the goal :)
<Burgundavia> I just don't think that is where we should be focusing our energies
<ntoll> ubuntuguide.org isn't working for me
<ntoll> times out
<Burgundavia> enrico: did you see my note about possibly using ubuntuguide.org?
<Burgundavia> ntoll: same for me
<enrico> Burgundavia: yes, but did you discuss it nicely with Chua?  It sounded aggressive to me
<Burgundavia> I sent an email to him
<Burgundavia> Hey,
<Burgundavia> I really like all the stuff you have done with your page.
<Burgundavia> I was wondering something. This is not official, but I had a thought
<Burgundavia> regarding documentation. Your page is already well advertised, so I
<Burgundavia> wondered if a wiki could be installed there, and we could move the
<Burgundavia> offical docs over there.
<Burgundavia> As I said, this is NOT official, just me putting feelers out.
<Burgundavia> Thanks again,
<Burgundavia> Corey
<egli> oh my god, move the docu to a wiki
<Burgundavia> ah yes
<enrico> Ok.  Although it sounds a bit like "I'm considering moving in your apartment: what do you think?" :)
<egli> hehe
<Burgundavia> lol
<enrico> Chua is such a nice person, and he's been very kind with us
<Burgundavia> ubuntuguide is really nice stuff
<Burgundavia> if you grepped #ubuntu for it, you would be amazed at home many times it pops up
<enrico> And he's got his big plans.  Ubuntuguide.org is how he supports free software in Malaysia (that, and ordering *5000* Ubuntu CDs to use in courses and stuff he does)
<Burgundavia> it is also linked from the sidebar of the forums
<Burgundavia> What I would really like to find a home for is all the unoffical stuff at the forums FAQ section
<Burgundavia> so much of it is: install xmms|mplayer|etc. and everything will be better
<egli> isn't there a faq section in the ubuntulinix wiki?
<ntoll> egli, yes and it covers taht stuff
<egli> so why a new home?
<Burgundavia> I was doing some work on the wiki today
<Burgundavia> The wiki currently hosts about a dozen different things
<Burgundavia> dev chatter
<Burgundavia> our docs
<Burgundavia> our chatter
<egli> that's what you get with wiki :-)
<Burgundavia> without the tools to make it cohesive and organized
<ntoll> hmmm... so some wiki consolidation is in order then?
<Burgundavia> egli: no it is not
<Burgundavia> plus having several types of markup
<Burgundavia> one wiki for all docs, nothing else. One kind of markup
<egli> so how do you envision these tools " to make it cohesive and organized"
<Burgundavia> categories
<Burgundavia> watchlists
<Burgundavia> smaller wiki
<Burgundavia> focused
<Burgundavia> the only things that are going in are documentation
<Burgundavia> makes it easier to manage
<egli> ok
<egli> would that imply another wiki engine than the one currently on ubuntulinux
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> mediawiki, but it is php
<egli> smth like mediawiki
<egli> php is a no-no?
<Burgundavia> mediawiki is under the most active development
<Burgundavia> mark shuttleworth doesn't like it, from what I have heard
<egli> mediawiki has all the stuff you want|
<Burgundavia> some of it
<egli> you want more?
<Burgundavia> categories of are nice
<Burgundavia> some work could be on categories to allow you to sort them on the fly
<egli> where you get the additional functionality?
<Burgundavia> I will take the existing functionality, because it is better than the current wiki
<Burgundavia> oh, and one markup language
<Burgundavia> not 4
<egli> ok one markup makes sense
<egli> but wikipedia also has a huge community
<Burgundavia> and then in the svn would be any docs we already have, plus things like marketing brochures
<egli> with the community mediawiki works
<Burgundavia> wikipedia currently has about 6 developers
<egli> with just a small community svn + db might work better
<egli> by community I mean the contributors of content
<Burgundavia> but you would then miss the advantages of a wiki
<Burgundavia> ah
<egli> sure, yes
<egli> but editorial control, consistence of wording etc
<Burgundavia> writer says "user needs doc on installing blah" write blah publish blah
<Burgundavia> time ~1 day at most
<egli> wouldn't that be achieved better in db + svn
<Burgundavia> egli: that can be achieved with a wiki
<Burgundavia> remember that this wiki would only be docs
<Burgundavia> so very low volume
<egli> also because you have the entire content at your displosal, offline
<Burgundavia> so one or two people could just check everything that goes in. IE, just be watching the pages after the edit happens, not before
<Burgundavia> offline is the bigger issue
<Burgundavia> that is why a good HTML to PDF thingy is needed
<egli> how many pages do we talk about? does that scale?
<Burgundavia> does a wiki scale?
<Burgundavia> In this English version, started in 2001, we are currently working on 494009 articles.
<egli> Burgundavia: you'll never get a good html to pdf thingy
<Burgundavia> does a community scale? yes
<egli> no I mean in ubuntu doc. how many pages
<egli> maybe you could get a decent mediawiki markup to pdf thingy
<Burgundavia> for the total amount? I have no idea
<enrico> Burgundavia: so the problem you point at is not the domain name, but that the current wiki sucks
<Burgundavia> yes
<egli> scale in the sense of somebody whatchlisting all the pages
<Burgundavia> ubuntuguide.org would be icing on the cake
<Burgundavia> that depends on how many people edit
<Burgundavia> I currently watch 819 pages in WP
<Burgundavia> I get about 15~20 edits a day to review
<Burgundavia> of which most are small
<Burgundavia> there are some major techical hurdles to overcome become we could do this fully
<Burgundavia> and svn/docbook would never go away
<enrico> Burgundavia: that (making a new wiki) wouldn't be appreciated, though, because the company's policy is to try and fix what one has
<enrico> So I suggest first to ask for the name of someone that takes care of improving/fixing the wiki
<Burgundavia> enrico: But we are talked 2 different audiences here
<Burgundavia> enrico: I have been doing some work and will continue to do so
<Burgundavia> but changing the wiki fundamentally, which would be required, would require buyin from the entire wiki user community, and a lot of work
<Burgundavia> plus the wiki doesn't do multi-lang very well
<egli> you mean the current wiki?
<enrico> Burgundavia: that's still "this wiki sucks, let's make a new one"
<Burgundavia> The reason I want a seperate wiki is beyond this wiki sucks
<enrico> I quite agree that this wiki needs improvements: I'm just telling you what I see as the best way for getting it in this context
<Burgundavia> I want a seperate wiki because it is "world facing"
<Burgundavia> we also need something for the devs to use
<Burgundavia> and us to chatter amongst ourselves
<Burgundavia> it is like have a workshop and a boardroom
<Burgundavia> you don't generally mix them
<enrico> Why is it bad to share the wiki with the devels?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> boardroom != workshop
<enrico> That metaphore doesn't necessarily hold for the wikis
<Burgundavia> sorry why
<Burgundavia> we all need the wiki for different reasons
<Burgundavia> Ours needs to look good, with a wiki language that allows a lot of presentation markup
<enrico> but wikis work better when different communities coehist in the same wiki, as that allows creativity to happen also in the border cases
<Burgundavia> theirs needs to be fast and easy, but doesn't need much presentation markup
<enrico> Ours need to be fast and easy, too.  People weren't writing much in ReST: we moved to Moin just because of that
<Burgundavia> But our Doc wiki is really only a wiki because that is easy. It is really nicely formated stuff that happens to exist there
<enrico> our, which one?
<Burgundavia> our "new" wiki for the public
<enrico> our?
<Burgundavia> The Doc Team wiki for putting docs up for the public to read
<Burgundavia> which is mostly what it would be doing
<enrico> Have you discussed that with someone from Canonical?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> I have just being throwing ideas around right now
<enrico> Thought so :)
<Burgundavia> I wanted to get buyin from the doc team, so we could ask as the doc team
<Burgundavia> or not get buyin, in which case I drop the idea
<enrico> Burgundavia: we've had regular sessions of "wiki sucks, let's have a new one"
<Burgundavia> but it has gone nowhere
<Burgundavia> wiki still sucks
<enrico> That's why what I suggest is to get the name of someone that maintains the wiki
<Burgundavia> I have specifics that I would like to see changed
<Burgundavia> I would happily work with them to get it done
<enrico> Burgundavia: at the docteam meeting, let's ask for this name, and discuss your specifics
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I was kind of wait too
<Burgundavia> but others brought it up, so I thought I would explain my ideas
<Burgundavia> s/wait/waiting
<enrico> It wouldn't be bad to put down, together with the others, a list of "why it sucks", "what it's blocking" and "what it would need"
<enrico> Then post a URL to that during the meeting
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> what about the list, just I list specifics there right now to generate input?
<enrico> sure!
<enrico> You could use a wiki page to collect input
<Burgundavia> sending soon
<Burgundavia> lol
<enrico> I think those three points ("why it sucks", "what it's blocking" and "what it would need") are all quite important
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> sent a note to the list
<enrico> Burgundavia: cool!
<Burgundavia> enrico: I still think a completely different wiki for presentation docs is vital
<BuffaloSoldier> hello everyone
<Burgundavia> hey
<Burgundavia> what brings you to ubuntu-doc?
<BuffaloSoldier> just checking out what are you guys up to
<BuffaloSoldier> :)
<Burgundavia> well
<Burgundavia> the quickguide is coming along quite nicely
<Burgundavia> you can grab it from the repos
<Burgundavia> ubuntu-quickguide
<Burgundavia> BuffaloSoldier: any other questions?
<BuffaloSoldier> nothing so far :)
<Burgundavia> if you have anything you think should be changed, email ubuntu-doc about it
<mdke_laptop> hi :)
<Burgundavia> hey
<Burgundavia> anything new and interesting?
<mdke_laptop> not from me
<mdke_laptop> just got home from school
<Burgundavia> did you see the post on the list about improving the wiki?
<mdke_laptop> yeah but haven't looked properly yet
<mdke_laptop> lemme check it out
<mdke_laptop> i have like 20 to get through
<mdke_laptop> ok read
<mdke_laptop> Burgundavia, mostly good stuff
<mdke_laptop> one thing concerns me
<mdke_laptop> would it be difficult to export the current content to a new wiki?
<Burgundavia> There really isn't that much in the current wiki that would really be necessary to move
<Burgundavia> Remember, the wiki is only from docs
<Burgundavia> nothing more
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> there is a lot of stuff in the wiki
<Burgundavia> no dev chatter, none of that
<Burgundavia> most of the stuff in the wiki is not docs
<mdke_laptop> don't forget other language docs
<Burgundavia> they can be moved if necessary
<mdke_laptop> right
<mdke_laptop> i'm on the italian list
<mdke_laptop> we were intending to consolidate lots of docs in the wiki
<Burgundavia> I would wait
<Burgundavia> this Sat. is the big meeting
<Burgundavia> doc meeting that is
<mdke_laptop> yes
<mdke_laptop> well at the moment there are lots of italian docs in the wiki, and some others on various other sites
<Burgundavia> there are a number of scattered sites that have docs
<Burgundavia> the most common on the english side is ubuntuguide.org
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> too much scatter
<Burgundavia> if you make the wiki cross language and suppor that well, then more of this will come together
<mdke_laptop> heh
<Burgundavia> have you seen the multi-lang stuff at wp?
<mdke_laptop> yes
<Burgundavia> It could use some work in terms of visiblity, but the ideas are very sound
<Burgundavia> the other issue with cross lang there is different layouts of the pedia
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> well if the content is easy to transfer I will continue trying to sort out the italian section
<Burgundavia> continue to work on the existing stuff. I would just be hesitant about wholesale addition of new stuff
<mdke_laptop> well its just copy and paste from other sites really
<mdke_laptop> but it needs structural work as well
<mdke_laptop> i'll do a bit
<mdke_laptop> i'm still trying to get the hang of the politics in the italian team
<mdke_laptop> ;)
<Burgundavia> are you italian?
<mdke_laptop> no
<mdke_laptop> english
<mdke_laptop> but i have lived in italy and wanna help out their team
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke_laptop> i wanna steer clear of politics tho
<Burgundavia> I agree
<mdke_laptop> even in linux, it exists
<mdke_laptop> my god these wiki languages are crazy
<mdke_laptop> moinmoin is appalling
<Burgundavia> it is
<Burgundavia> another reason to move wikis
<Burgundavia> I have to catch some sleep
<Burgundavia> talk to you again soon
<mdke_laptop> evening enrico
<mdke_laptop> *_
<enrico_> mdke_laptop: hi!
<mdke_laptop> how goes it?
<enrico_> mdke_laptop: about to dive deep into work
<mdke_laptop> ok
<mdke_laptop> tuffati pure
<enrico_> :)
<enrico_> I haven't done anything today (yet)
<mdke_laptop> ouch
<enrico_> and it's evening (which is bad)
<mdke_laptop> 21.42
<mdke_laptop> what did you do during the day?
<enrico_> This morning I was called to talk in a high school about the new atypical jobs
<enrico_> that is, the new kinds of fixed-term contracts one has nowadays
<mdke_laptop> so you have done something today!
<enrico_> that is, "please don't have any long-term plans in your life"
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> there are jobs in italy?
<enrico_> you need to teach high school students that they will need to fight for the bread, nowadays
<mdke_laptop> :(
<mdke_laptop> tell them to come to England
<mdke_laptop> land of the plentiful
<mdke_laptop> before we close our borders
<enrico> England?  I recall that wasn't very nice-looking for job-seekers that would like to have a family
<mdke_laptop> yeah i'm just kidding
<enrico> lots of fixed-term, decaying social services, stuff like that
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> its not a great place actually
<mdke_laptop> i want to move to italy
<enrico> There are jobs in Italy, yes, if you'd like to be exploited
<enrico> Try googling for "serpica naro" in English sites only
<enrico> Like, in google news, or in The Guardian (hoping The Guardian covered it)
<mdke_laptop> ok
<enrico> nothing on the Guardian
<mdke_laptop> why english only?
<mdke_laptop> Chi e' la sconosciuta stilista giapponese Serpica Naro che chiude la settimana della moda milanese?
<mdke_laptop> ""
<enrico> Oh, RIGHT!  You know Italian
<enrico> That's a funny story
* mdke_laptop reads
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> enrico, you have something I could do to help the docteam?
<enrico> http://www.chainworkers.org/dev/#
<enrico> We invented a saint to protect precarious workers (that is, all the fixed-terms and similar things)
<mdke_laptop> you were involved?
<enrico> No, but I do have the San Precario icon in my wallet :)
<enrico> It's got a prayer as well
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> brb
<enrico> To help the docteam... what I see could be needed now is to hack a bit in the documentation of single applications
<enrico> like, the things in /usr/share/doc
<enrico> like, the things in /usr/share/doc/<package>
<enrico> however, we don't have cool infrastructure to handle it atm
<enrico> what's doable is having a read to the documentation of some app you know, and if it is lacking, apt-get source <packagename>, hack on it, then send a patch to the author
<enrico> that's still a bit of a pioneer effort
<enrico> saturday we'll discuss a bit of these things at the docteam meeting
<mdke_laptop> i'll turn up
<enrico> Or, wiki gardening
<mdke_laptop> i like wiki gardening
<mdke_laptop> is it helpful?
<enrico> wiki gardening is always very needed
<enrico> It's very helpful
<mdke_laptop> do people still use wikis tho?
<mdke_laptop> because ubuntuguide is really the bible for n00bs ;)
<enrico> There are wiki pages that need some proofreading (maybe in light of new Hoary changes); some that need to be merged; some that need to be deleted altogether
<mdke_laptop> i'd like to help if I can
<mdke_laptop> can i delete the Docbook wiki now? I merged the content into DocBook
<enrico> If you click on "wiki contents", you see an overview of everything in the wiki: there you can see if there are things misplaced or which have no sense anymore
<mdke_laptop> hmm
<mdke_laptop> ok
<enrico> Yes, please delete it; but first, check the backlinks and fix the referring page to point to DocBook
<mdke_laptop> have done
<enrico> then by all means please delete it
<mdke_laptop> corey is right tho, this wiki sucks
<enrico> I like deleting pages from the wiki :)
<enrico> Oh, it does!
<mdke_laptop> its so annoying to have to keep logging in
<mdke_laptop> damn cookies don't work
<mdke_laptop> and the language... *shudders*
<sivang> mdke_laptop: we have a docbook wiki? :)
<mdke_laptop> two
<mdke_laptop> now one
<enrico> mdke_laptop: it's been agreed to use MoinMoin as the markup of choice
<mdke_laptop> enrico, yeah it seems to be standard
<enrico> mdke_laptop: (unless for some pages which are in ReST for some reason)
<mdke_laptop> but its so disturbing i'm almost tempted to use html
<enrico> mdke_laptop: however, MoinMoin is the markup of choice for the Docteam
<mdke_laptop> ;p
<mdke_laptop> enrico, i'm converting anything i see into MoinMoin
<mdke_laptop> tranquillo
<mdke_laptop> sivang, hi btw
<mdke_laptop> i'm matt
<enrico> mdke_laptop: meet sivang 
<enrico> sivang: meet mdke_laptop 
<mdke_laptop> the "matt" nick was taken i'm afraid
<sivang> mdke_laptop: pleased to meet you mdke_laptop 
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> :)
<sivang> enrico: hi enrico, what's up? 
<enrico> sivang: I was planning to dive deep into working
* sivang apologizes for being a bit distracted from doc bussiness with python learning and bug squashing :-/
<enrico> as usual, IRC isn't helping on that
<sivang> (althought he get's addicted to bug squashing)
<sivang> enrico: yeah, I have to shut it off whenever I am trying to do anything substantial
<mdke_laptop> heh
<enrico> mdke_laptop: sivang is our mascotte: he hangs in the channel saying he's sorry for not helping the docteam but promising he'll do it soon :)
<mdke_laptop> lol
<sivang> enrico: btw, we still have the bug that we cannot put the documentation to a nice palce at front right?
<enrico> sivang: sure!
<sivang> enrico: hehehe
<mdke_laptop> that is the worst bug of all
<mdke_laptop> brb
<sivang> enrico: well, I at least promise to help on such matters like registerting the docs, I will try bugger up shawnm for the release about it
<enrico> sivang: oh, yes, please!
<enrico> sivang: I'm clueless on that
<sivang> enrico: I promise to do that, really, shawn is already used to me bugging him alot :)
<sivang> enrico: s/promise/promise to do my best to try and achive these, not accounting force major stuff/
<sivang> :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-22
<mdke_laptop> enrico, you're up late ;)
<enrico> mdke_laptop: yes
<mdke_laptop> poveraccio
<enrico> I started working late, I finish working late
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> how much do you sleep?
<enrico> I try to keep on a 8 hours per night average
<mdke_laptop> ah meno male
<mdke_laptop> me too
<enrico> mdke_laptop: long periods of less I feel they are not healthy
<mdke_laptop> some people seem to manage it
<mdke_laptop> not me tho i need sleep
<enrico> mdke_laptop: but you're up late as well :)
<mdke_laptop> enrico, i'm a student
<mdke_laptop> i don't have work in the morning or anything
<mdke_laptop> i'm on GMT too
<mdke_laptop> well done for calming the list down
<mdke_laptop> your reply was very well measured
<enrico> mdke_laptop: thanks a lot
<enrico> I just can't undestand why everyone keeps reacting like that: nothing changed, really
<enrico> Maybe people still hasn't read my replies
<mdke_laptop> check now
<enrico> checking
<mdke_laptop> but yeah, it was a kneejerk reaction
<mdke_laptop> hope i didn't contribute in any way
<enrico> No, I think Corey did all of it
<enrico> He has the tendency of writing "our new ideas" when it's instead his new ideas
<mdke_laptop> meno male
<enrico> that scares
<enrico> I've seen very good feedback about your wiki work so far
<mdke_laptop> ?
<enrico> Jeff wrote you a really positive mail
<mdke_laptop> i've done nothing
<mdke_laptop> oh ok
<mdke_laptop> yeah he is nice
<mdke_laptop> enrico, i'm trying to try and get an Italian wiki comunity going
<enrico> mdke_laptop: there should be one
<enrico> I don't know their status, though
<mdke_laptop> there is
<mdke_laptop> but its stagnant
<mdke_laptop> so i'm gonna tidy it up and import some docs and see if it will take off
<enrico> I know there were some problems with the guy who started it, but I dont' know now
<mdke_laptop> heh
<mdke_laptop> i haven't heard both sides of the story yet
<mdke_laptop> but seems there was a power struggle
<mdke_laptop> whatever, i'm gonna keep out of it
<mdke_laptop> :)
<mdke_laptop> hi trickie
<trickie> hellp
<trickie> hello
<trickie> :)
<mdke_laptop> pleased to meet you
<mdke_laptop> i'm matt
<trickie> you too matt!
<trickie> i am Nick Loeve
<mdke_laptop> :)
<enrico> trickie: hi!  You mail didn't get to the list because it was too big
<enrico> I now seized control of the list admin interface (finally!) and approved it
<trickie> thanks enrico
<trickie> i should have probably just sent it to you
<trickie> but anyway
<trickie> the poxml utilities look good
<trickie> should help make translations easier to maintain
<enrico> trickie: there's the tricky issue of translating the screenshots
<trickie> i haven't used them before, but am familiar with gettext
<trickie> yes
<trickie> i was just about to say that!
<enrico> trickie: but I think we can smartly decide to completely overlook that problem at the moment ;)
<trickie> enrico, ;)
<trickie> enrico, so do you know what has been happening, ie with Sean/Corey?
<trickie> enrico, seems to be some chaos at the moment
<enrico> Yes.  I sent various mails to the list now trying to explain that nothing really changed
<enrico> I've contacted Sean privately telling him and asking him to please stay
<trickie> enrico, great
<enrico> I hope things are going to settle down
<trickie> enrico, Yes! Me too!
<trickie> enrico, We were going so well!
<enrico> well, we're still going so well
<enrico> my biggest problem is what to do after the QuickGuide just not to lose the rhythm :)
<trickie> enrico, yep. I would like to help to get the translations happening, i can't speak any other languages, but in terms of the prcoess
<trickie> enrico, i would also like to help Sean on the Admin Guide (if he is still on board)
<enrico> trickie: not even Welsh or Scottish? :)
<enrico> I think you should send a mail to Sean about your offer on the Admin Guide
<trickie> enrico, ha ha ha i can try with Australian slang
<trickie> enrico, ok, i'll mail him
<enrico> Da Bonzo Guide!
<mdke_laptop> lol
<trickie> I have to go now guys (at work!), but i will talk to soon
<enrico> I think you'll find me in bed
<enrico> but maybe I'll be awaye when you get out of work
<trickie> enrico, :) no probs, see on Sat UTC
<trickie> !
<trickie> mdke_laptop, see ya, nice to meet ya
<mdke_laptop> same
<mdke_laptop> cya again
<Burgundavia> hello all
<enrico> Hello Burgundavia 
<enrico> Burgundavia: it seems like your plans were not that popular after all
<Burgundavia> I noticed that
<Burgundavia> Why did all this come out today?
<Burgundavia> why not earlier?
<enrico> I think that when peple saw Sean go away, then they thought that your ideas had been accepted and all the work done would be thrown away
<Burgundavia> oh
<Burgundavia> but everybody has a voice
<enrico> But not necessarily they want to speak.  Many are people that just joined and liked the game, but didn't feel like they wanted to lead the project.  If it went on a nice direction, then they would be fine; else, they would go elsewhere
<enrico> That's my feeling, at least.
<enrico> And I think they understood from your mails that your proposals had been somehow approved by some powers that be
<mdke_laptop> the confusion is the wiki email
<Burgundavia> I thought I was pretty clear that I was asking for thoughts. I guess not. I will be more careful in the future
<enrico> Me too, I've been busy elsewhere for a couple of days, and when I came back and saw all your activity I thought you've been discussing and agreeing with all the others
<mdke_laptop> people understood that the wiki was to replace the current docs, whereas i believe you intention was not that at all, but simply to argue for a change in wiki engine
<Burgundavia> I had initially said the first, but tempered my ideas
<Burgundavia> that was my bad
<mdke_laptop> yeah
<mdke_laptop> hence the confusion
<enrico> I should make a ubuntu-doc report summarizing this all
<mdke_laptop> lol
<mdke_laptop> you see, corey said this:
<mdke_laptop> Please add to this list. I/Enrico hope to have a list of specific and
<mdke_laptop> concrete things that we can take to Canonical to get our wiki fixed.
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> and coupled with my earlier talk about wikis
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke_laptop> exactly
<enrico> oh
<mdke_laptop> bingo
<enrico> mdke_laptop: thanks for showing that!
<mdke_laptop> :)
<Burgundavia> I didn't put those pieces together
<enrico> I didn't feel like writing a UBuntu=doc report at 3:04, but it seems like I should
<mdke_laptop> enrico, leave it til the morning
<mdke_laptop> it will be easier
<enrico> Probably, yes
<mdke_laptop> and more lucid ;p
<mdke_laptop> got work in the morning?
<Burgundavia> yay, I fixed muine!
<enrico> mdke_laptop: got work tomorrow, flexible times
<Burgundavia> now I need to fix the quickguide
<mdke_laptop> ok bed for me
<mdke_laptop> i have a massive computer screen headache
<mdke_laptop> nite
<enrico> I'll definitely go to bed now
<Burgundavia> cya
<Burgundavia> ping
<Burgundavia> hey
<enrico> Hello!
<Burgundavia> how is life?
<enrico> Burgundavia: sleepy
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> is 10am there?
<enrico> yes, and I went to bed at around 5
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> still haven't gone to bed yet
<Kinnison> Morning all
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: go to bed
<abelli> Kinnison: ciao ciao ciao
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: salut
<sivang> Kinnison:    !
<Kinnison> argh; it's been too long
* Kinnison gets out his *document*
<mdke_laptop> j #ubuntu-it
<mdke_laptop> sorry
<mdke_laptop> morning anyway
<Kinnison> Morning mdke_laptop 
<mdke_laptop> :)
<mdke_laptop> hope everyone is well
* Kinnison is; thanks. You?
<mdke_laptop> yes very thank
<mdke_laptop> s
<Kinnison> Still in Holborn?
<mdke_laptop> heh
<mdke_laptop> i'm in bed
<mdke_laptop> work up late
<mdke_laptop> i live in east london
<mdke_laptop> *woke
<Kinnison> joined?! please tell me that's an autojoin and not 'cos you're *still* awake...
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> I malfed my sudoers
<mdke_laptop> this boy is a machine
<Kinnison> mdke_laptop: at this rate; I'll have to fly him over here and tie him to a bed to make him sleep
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: do you have script with my name in it
<Burgundavia> kinky
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: No; I don't
<Burgundavia> WHEN burgundavia JOINS ubuntu-doc AND time == late THEN chastise
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: time==late when daniel==at_work
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> time being as it is
<mdke_laptop> but surely his body clock does not follow the hours of light
* Kinnison tried to work outside of normal hours
<Burgundavia> not really
<Kinnison> I found myself sleeping 18hrs a day instead
* Kinnison only manages to work properly by sleeping at night
<mdke_laptop> mmmm
<mdke_laptop> 18 hours...
<sivang> Kinnison: yes, it's a pain working like this
<mdke> anyone here? quick question on the wiki
<enrico> mdke: yes
<mdke> enrico, the problem is this. Have a look at DocumentHowTo, under the Moin markup section. THe author has tried to make a template for a new page. But it goes wrong
<mdke> the problem is he uses {{{ to introduce the template
<mdke> then when he uses {{{ }}} within the body of the template, it closes the original {{{ tag
<enrico> oh, horrid, yes
<mdke> enrico, is it possible to avoid this?
<mdke> i'm incorporating that page into HelpOnEditing
<mdke> it would be a shame to scrap the idea of a template because it might be useful for users
<mdke> enrico, ping
<enrico> mdke: I'm trying to figure out
<enrico> little luck so far
<mdke> enrico, forse non se puo fa'
<enrico> mdke: sembra di no
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i won't include the template for now
<enrico> mdke: saving the page
<enrico> Reload it now
<enrico> I made the best workaround I could
<mdke> yes fair enough
<mdke> will copy that
<mdke> you're clever :)
<mdke> ty
<enrico> mdke: well, I would have preferred a better solution
<enrico> mdke: that's another item for WikiWishlist, though
<mdke> enrico, it's probably already on there but if not i will add it
<mdke> enrico, HowDoc is obsolete?
<enrico> mdke: not really obsolete, but moved away during a reorganization of the docteam pages
<enrico> I left it there because there are things to salvage before deleting the page
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i'll salvage a few now
<mdke> MoinMoin is now official way forward?
<enrico> Yes, that's the default one
<enrico> One should have good reasons to use other formats
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> what is zwiki?
<enrico> mdke: the wiki we are using
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> the default is Structured Text?
<enrico> yes.  in WikiWishlist there is an entry (from me) asking to change that to Moin
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> ok
<mdke> HelpPage needs to be rehashed a bit
<mdke> will do it later
<mdke> bye for now
<mdke> hands up if you know how to insert an icon into a wiki with MoinMoin
<mdke> everyone sitting on their hands eh?
<froud> mdke: I think everyone is in a meeting
<mdke> k
<mdke> a dev meeting?
<froud> yes
<froud> dunno much about wiki, but try this
<froud> .. image:: IconUsers
<froud>    :alt: IconUsers where did the picture go?
<froud>    :align: right
<froud>    :height: 36
<froud>    :width: 36
<mdke> wrong language
<mdke> that doesn't work in MoinMoin
<froud> as I said I dont kow much about wiki markup
<mdke> i've trawled through the website
<mdke> i'm slightly surprised we've chosen this markup as our default
<mdke> its rubbish
<mdke> oh well
<mdke> i'll ask later
* froud shudders at the hint of another regilious question
<Kinnison> MoinMoin is common and thus well known
<mdke> oooh
<mdke> do you know how to insert icons?
<Kinnison> Nope
<mdke> :(
* Kinnison isn't a serious wiki user
<Kinnison> you can tell by my wiki page
<mdke> lemme see
<mdke> nothing wrong with that!
<froud> isn't there a moin moin syntax document on the net somewhere
<mdke> can you delete my comment from it?
<Kinnison> why not find one of the pages which has an icon and check out the syntax?
<mdke> froud, yeah i read em
<mdke> Kinnison i haven't found one yet, all the ones with icons use different markup
<Kinnison> maybe moinmoin can't do 'em
* Kinnison looks on some moin wikis he uses
<mdke> problem is not inserting images, its inserted the images from the wiki database
<mdke> url images go in ok
<mdke> this Alexander Poslavsky might know, is he still active?
<Kinnison> attachment:fooimage.jpg ?
<mdke> lemme try
<mdke> no
<mdke> on the moinmoin guide on their website it just says to use the name of the file with whitespace either side, but it doesn't seem to work
<mdke> np
<Kinnison> More than anything I blame zwiki
<mdke> we are missing a macro i think
<mdke> >_>
<sm> oh, darn :)
<mdke> np
<mdke> sm is helping me with the icon issue
<sm> enrico, anyone ? what do you think about renaming all IconImages to iconimage.png ?
<sm> and fixing the pages which link them
<sm> so that moin can recognize them
<mdke> sm, i was gonna say, it will take time to amend all the Restructured Text pages
<mdke> until then, there would have to be duplicates imo
<sm> not too much.. how many places are these icons linked ?
<sm> not too many I'm guessing
<mdke> i think quite a lot
<mdke> not sure how to tell
* sm uses the fast zwiki skin and emacs for editing
<mdke> i will put it on the doc agenda
<mdke> and email the list
<sm> sounds good
<mdke> i might not make the meeting tomorrow, so i'll put it on the agenda
<sm> search should tell us  where they are
<mdke> yeah
<sm> the wiki's search, preferably - http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki
<mdke> good idea
<mdke> yeah not too many
<sm> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?expr=PicDocs
<sm> hmm.. quite a few
<mdke> that is one of the more commonly used ones
<mdke> if the idea is to convert pages to MoinMOin anyway, then its doable
<sm> anyway, many hands make light work, and I think it would be a better scheme
<mdke> will take time tho
<mdke> ok
<mdke> cool
<sm> but should be discussed in case there is some reason for the current naming
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> well i'll certainly put it up at the meeting agenda page
<sm> cool.. thx mdke
<sm> I'd better run
<mdke> thank you for your help
<sm> np
<enrico> sm: what for?
<enrico> moin can recognize them?
<enrico> I've been looking for ages for a way to have moin show images!
<enrico> sm, mdke: I'm happy to see you met!
<sm> yes hi mdke.. matt ?
<sm> <- simon
<sm> enrico: moin requires the suffix to detect that it's an image
<enrico> oh, ok!  That's why it doesn't work.  Then, yes, by all means, let's rename!
<enrico> sm you probably have noticed there's been some recent activity of people looking at the wiki
<enrico> some feedback came, some ideas
<mdke> hi enrico
<sm> I didn't.. where, ubuntu-doc ?
<enrico> sm ubuntu-doc, yes. and this channel.  But most of that discussion is chaotic
<mdke> lol
<enrico> the last messages get a bit on track
<sm> I haven't been on here too much lately
<sm> I'll check the list
<enrico> So there'll be a docteam meeting tomorrow at 23:00UTC, and Corey Burger's collecting items about the wiki: what doesn't work, what activities are being blocked by what doesn't work, what could be done to improve
<sm> utc.. that sounds like 1500 my time
<sm> with luck I'll make that
<enrico> (which is a constructive way of channeling the "wiki sucks" frustration into something useful)
<enrico> sm I thought you were french?
<sm> irish
<sm> living in california
<enrico> Ah, ok
<mdke> i'm gonna post the icon thing to WikiWishList tho
<enrico> mdke: there should be an item from me there about images not working in moin
<enrico> mdke: you can add to it
<mdke> oh
<mdke> images work tho
<mdke> oh there is something in there by Alexander something
<mdke> and he mentioned you sm
* sm wishes people wouldn't call pages "wikis"
<sm> but it seems a hopeless quest :)
<mdke> right have added a comment to the wishlist
<sm> aha, that was you mdke >:)
<sm> "wikis"
<mdke> nooooooo
<mdke> where?
<sm> in ubuntu-doc thread.. fyi I think a wiki is a collection of wiki pages
<sm> but your call :)
<mdke> sm, ok in future i will get it
<mdke> sm, i am new
<mdke> enrico, is it cool if I add the icon issue to the meeting agenda, in case i don't make it
<sm> no problem.. thank you very much for the work
<mdke> sm, not much done as eyt
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i'm off home
<mdke> c later
<sm> oh now you leave, just when I get to your "wiki engine is rubbish"...
<sm> 8-)
<sm> lively discussion
<sm> I have clarifications to offer, tomorrow's chat hopefully
<enrico> maskie: it's cool!
<enrico> mdke: it's cool!
<enrico> sm: I had something for him as well
<enrico> I wanted do tell him "please put icons everywhere"
<enrico> I wanted to use icons all the time, but I couldn't figure out how to do it with moin
<enrico> Now that there is a way, I feel like it's Icon Party :)
<sm> yay :)
<sm> be afraid.. enrico is coming with ICONS
<enrico> I actually have no time for that
<enrico> I would have been happy if mdke did it O:-)
<sm> do you think anyone links to the icons besides the wiki pages ?
<sm> well if so I'm sure they can update
* sm copies Icon* to.. what ? boot.png, bug.png, cdrom.png.. ?
<sm> Boot.png ?
<sm> IconBoot.png ?
* sm gets cold feet
<sm> some have multiple words in the name
<sm> tomorrow
<enrico> dashes?
<enrico> icon-boot.png ?
<sm> is there some doc related reason why they need to begin with icon ?
<enrico> no idea
<sm> are they standard names used in non-wiki docs also
<enrico> maybe namespace tidyness?
<enrico> I've never heard of guidelines about image names
<enrico> nor of common non-written practices
<sm> it's just that they seem to be standard gnome icons
<sm> I'll wait till after the meeting discussion
<enrico> sm ok
<sm> see you
<mdke> wb
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-23
<mdke> wb
<mdke> hdy
<mdke> hey
<drasko> hello everybody
<drasko> I am interested in joining the Ubuntu Doc team. Can anyone give me some waypoints?
<drasko> anybody?
<mdke> sorry didn't see your post
<mdke> sup?
<mdke> drasko, hello?
<mdke> ah i see your email
<mdke> drasko, i think the idea is simply that you can get cracking
<mdke> just subscribe to the list, and then http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamGettingStarted
<mdke> brb
<drasko> mdke, hello
<drasko> did so...
<drasko> mdke, I was looking for registration, never saw the "join" button in the wiki page in the upper right corner, though... Now I am officiely member of the Ubuntu community, and I subscribed to miling list. Thanks for the answers :)
<mdke> drasko, hi welcome
<mdke> drasko, listen what country are you in?
<mdke> there is a docteam meeting today maybe you could attend?
<drasko> mdke, I doubt -- Serbia and Montenegro...
<mdke> GMT +1?
<drasko> Yes, Belgrade
<mdke> the meeting is at 23.00 hours tonight, your time (22.00 GMT)
<mdke> if you can't come then it will not be a problem, but it would be nice ;)
<drasko> Oh, that's ok... here?
<mdke> come here, and then it will probably be #ubuntu-meeting
<drasko> tahnks, I will be here
<drasko> thanks
<mdke> good :)
<mdke> buongiorno :)
<mdke> have a good day everyone
<mdke> maybe see you at the meeting, *crosses fingers*
<froud-away> Drasko r you there
<drasko> froud-away, I'm there now
<froud> hi
<froud> drasko: 
<froud> did you sort out the problem
<froud> where do you want to contribute
<mdke> hi froud
<froud> hello mdke 
<froud> mdke: how r u
<mdke> good thanks
<mdke> yourself?
<froud> doing well just had 19 children to take care of this morning
<froud> it was my daughters birthday party
<mdke> whoa
<mdke> oh phew
<mdke> cleaned up the house yet?
<mdke> ;)
<froud> luckily the damage is restricted to my garden
<mdke> ah good plan
<mdke> keep em outside
<mdke> everything ok now re: the team?
<froud> yes, we have kissed and made up
<mdke> good
<froud> I am waiting to see what happens in the meeting today
<mdke> i'm just reading the svn guide
<froud> we will take it from there
<mdke> looks pretty simple
<mdke> maybe I could do some work editing language or something
<mdke> what is the status of the projects?
<froud> most important now is Quick guide
<froud> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/status/qg-report.html
<mdke> how is it looking?
<froud> we have one item that needs help
<mdke> yeah i see it
<mdke> bt
<mdke> what needs doin?
<froud> I don't know what to do with Bittorrent as I dont use it.
<froud> Hold I must go fix a toy
<mdke> k
<mdke> i've never used bittorrent either ;()
<froud> toy fixed
* froud looks around for anyone who can do the node
<mdke> sorry what is missing with gnome-bittorrent?
<mdke> presumably gnome have docs which can be copied and amended as appropriate?
<froud> mdke: a screen capt would be nice and a better hint how to get started using it
<mdke> i'll try and have a look later on
<froud> if we dont know then I guess there must be many like us
<mdke> am in windows at school at the moment
<froud> thank you
<froud> ouch
<mdke> lol
<froud> all schools should use Linux
<mdke> heh
<mdke> unlikely
<mdke> i'm going away for the weekend but I have my laptop with me and i'll try and find a net port
<froud> dunno we have over 80 schools here using it 
<mdke> kewl
<mdke> this is a law school
<mdke> lots of windows only software
<froud> thanks to Mark Shuttleworth
<mdke> the boss ;)
<froud> His foundation in the Cape have done a remarkable job
<mdke> i met someone on another network who said his business was moving over to ubuntu and had got sent the software by MS
<mdke> in JBG
<mdke> wb
<froud> network split
<froud> MS sent them ubuntu
<mdke> i mean markS
<froud> Oh K
<froud> you had me worried there
<mdke> ;)
<mdke> volta che x farlo morire mi tocc ammazzarlo 13 volte
<mdke> <abelli> mmm cattivo
<mdke> whoops
<mdke> sorry wrong paste
<mdke> stupid windows
<froud> Yes hoary is looking good and this is only beta, guess Grumpy will kick ass
<mdke> hoary is pretty good i think
<mdke> good candy
<froud> eye candy
<froud> yeah, but the user audience needs that
<mdke> me too
<mdke> :))
<froud> well I am a KDE user so I guess that includes me
<froud> but I am comfortable at the prompt
<mdke> ah what is kde like in ubuntu?
<mdke> have you got a human theme?
<froud> Actually I am running SuSE but I have a lab host for development on Ubuntu
<mdke> traitor
<froud> I installed a kuubuntu on that
<mdke> oh well, i'm on XP so...
<froud> KDE ran well
<mdke> cool
<froud> it was a bit of tug getting it working
<froud> but it works
<mdke> listen i ought to go
<froud> ok
<froud> nice chatting
<mdke> if I find a network port i'll come to the meeting
<mdke> otherwise catch you soon
<froud> ok
<froud> ok
<HostingGeek> :o
<HostingGeek> i got a typo in the docs
<froud> which doc
<HostingGeek> but it might of been fixed in the last update
* HostingGeek checks
<HostingGeek> hehe suSE
<froud> :-)
<HostingGeek> well there are to mistakes
<HostingGeek> that i can see
<HostingGeek> beside the uglay screenies
<froud> could be but in which doc
<HostingGeek> and the out dated synaptic doc
<froud> synaptic doc meeds review
<froud> mvo told me that
<froud> but I dont think any of us have touched it
<froud> which doc has the typos
<HostingGeek> i said i'll fix the screeny back around when warty was released
<HostingGeek> but no one got back to me
<froud> HostingGeek: none of us can help if you dont say which doc :-\
<HostingGeek> i said SY NAP TIC
<froud> non of us are working on synaptic doc
<ogra> anybod in charge of the wiki in here ?
<ogra> i got a funny error
<froud> wiki is free for all
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/wiki_error.png
<HostingGeek> lol
<sivang> ogra: interesting :)
<sivang> ogra: Well, sm is responsible for the wiki if I am not mistaken, other then that , mako?
<HostingGeek> same problem here o,0
<froud> HostingGeek: were can I get src of Synaptic Doc
<froud> in whose repos
<HostingGeek> it comes with synaptic
<froud> better to patch in the repos
<froud> I can do it here http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/
<froud> or if somebody is running a local snapshot in a respos I can do it there
<froud> doing it in the former it may take longer to reach us
<froud> doing it in one of the ubuntu repositories we get it faster and then it is pushed upstream
<froud> HostingGeek: the src of the doc is here https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic/trunk/help/C/
<HostingGeek> ok
<HostingGeek> busy now making xg debs
<froud> can you tell me if somebody has an ubuntu version somewhere
<froud> Also please let us know on ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com what the problems are. It will be helpful and save time
<HostingGeek> zzz
<HostingGeek> Sun Mar 13 04:10:35 EST 2005
<HostingGeek> tell me in the morning
<froud> HostingGeek: tell us when you wake up
<HostingGeek> i am not going straght on my comp when i wake up
<jeffsch> howdy
<jeffsch> encrico's email says meeting is 23:00
<froud> jeffsch: hi
<jeffsch> wiki page says meeting is 22:00
<jeffsch> froud: hi
<froud> Hmm yes noticed
<froud> #ubuntu-doc says Saturday 12 March 22:00 UTC: Doc Team Meeting
<froud> sorry #ubuntu-meeting
<froud> so it's either right now or in an hour
<froud> jeffsch: can I mail you a copy of the ubuntu-update manager doc for editing
<jeffsch> yes.
<jeffsch> what kind of edit do you want?
<froud> alternately you can try checkout from svn co svn+ssh://anonymous@eyesopened.nl/update-manager/trunk
<froud> jeffsch: feel free to do as you see fit. This is an early document
<jeffsch> I'll try the svn checkout.
<cenerentola> ciao a tutti
<froud> hello
<froud> looks like cerentola and abelli are the same person
<abelli> froud: huh?
<froud> *** cenerentola has joined this channel. (~user@host-84-222-38-63.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
<froud> *** abelli has joined this channel. (~user@host-84-222-38-63.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
<abelli> ok
<jeffsch> froud: is password anonymous, or email address, or what?
<froud> put email if that dont work use blank
<abelli> froud: back in black
<jeffsch> froud: email it to me. blank password and email don't work
<froud> Hmm. Ok
<froud> jeffsch: sent update manager user manual
<jeffsch> froud: got it. will have to wait until tomorrow to look at it :( too much homework right now...
<froud> jeffsch: no rush
<froud> just send me a patch
<mdke> hi guys
<mdke> hoary is playing tricks on me
<froud> do you know how to creat a patch with out svn
<froud> jeffsch: if not just edit the doc and I will make the patch
<froud> jeffsch: you need just send me back files that have changed.
<jeffsch> froud: I use diff to make the patch, right?
<froud> yes
<froud> jeffsch: you extract the archive then make a copy
<froud> you edit in the copy
<jeffsch> Ok, I will do a tiny one first, then send you a patch as a test
<froud> then patch the edited copy against the untouched extracted copy
<froud> ok
* jeffsch goes to discover all about diff, and then eat, and will be back later
<mdke> the meeting is 22 gmt right?
<mdke> not 23?
<froud> mdke: we are asking the same question
<mdke> i reckon 22
<mdke> thats in his original mail and on the wiki
<froud> I recokon 23 cause we have no enrico yet
<mdke> well it's on 18.43
<mdke> *only
<mdke> i hope it is 23 because maybe i will be able to make that
<froud> are you all tuned to #ubuntu-meeting
<mdke> no
<froud> mdke: that's were you need to stay tuned
<mdke> ok i have joined now
<mdke> topic says 22
<froud> yep
<mdke> afk
<froud> jeffsch: if I get it right then we should already be in a meeting right?
<jeffsch> it's not until 22:00. is only 21:54 now
<trickie> froud, only 5 mins :)
<froud> hmm, tired
<trickie> froud, is just woke up
<trickie> froud, u live in South Africa?
* froud want sleep
<froud> yep
<trickie> froud, whats the time there?
<froud> 00:00
<froud> http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_ZA.aspx
<trickie> cool. I always wondered what the .za in your email was for
<froud> like the au in .au
<trickie> yep
<trickie> :)
<jeffsch> ah yes, beautiful zouth africa
<trickie> he he
<trickie> jeffsch, where you from Jeff?
<jeffsch> vancouver canada
<jeffsch> and you?
<trickie> jeffsch, melbourne australia
<froud> united nations
<froud> ready enrico 
<enrico> Ready!
<enrico> I'm in #ubuntu-meeting waiting for people to come
<trickie> enrico, so we should go there?
<enrico> trickie: sure!
<Liz> good morning all
<trickie> hi liz
<Burgundavia> in ubuntu-meeting
<trickie> come to #ubuntu-meeting
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-24
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> anyone awake?
<mdke> sm, ping
<sm> hello
<mdke> oh wow
<mdke> great
<mdke> sm, i'm wondering about the icons
<mdke> the previous markup had these features
<mdke>    :scale: 100
<mdke>    :alt: IconHandPointing where did the picture go?
<mdke>    :align: left
<mdke> i'm thinking perhaps moinmoin doesn't?
<sm> right 
<sm> those are restructured text features
<mdke> ok
<mdke> so no way to recreate alt or align?
<sm> afaik moin can include an image, link it, and that's all
<mdke> ok thats cool
<sm> you might ask on #moin to be sure
<mdke> i just wanted to know before I deleted those references
<mdke> ok i will
<mdke> thanks sm
<sm> mdke, fyi: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/pagesByType
<sm> and http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/wikiStats
<mdke> ok brilliant
<mdke> i can only view the first one, but that in itself is already useful
<sm> oh.. can you see the second now ?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> ty
<sm> np
<mdke> sm, seems it can't be done without a macro
<sm> ok.. which we don't support yet
<mdke> fair play
<mdke> it is planned to add them?
<mdke> the macro would be macro/ImageLink.py btw
<mdke> "HTML IMG tag attributes (width, height, alt, etc)are supported."
<mdke> that would be so cool
<mdke> paste:
<mdke> mdke i think that our wiki does not support macros
<mdke> mdke that is what I am told
<mdke> xorAxAx URL?
<mdke> mdke http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki
<mdke> mdke it is zwiki
<mdke> mdke in plone
<mdke> xorAxAx yeah.
<mdke> xorAxAx maybe you want to install moinmoin :-)
<mdke> /endpaste
<sm> mdke: it's on the wishlist, but it's not top priority unless it gets bountyized
<mdke> np
<mdke> was changing the wiki engine discussed tonight?
<mdke> actually i shouldn't be wasting your time with irritating questions, i'll get the log and have a read
<sm> mdke: np.. sorry I am elsewhere
<sm> I caught the last 15 mins of the meeting.. I had the wrong time
<sm> afaict the wiki wasn't discussed at all
<sm> do you have any questions about it ? I had a bunch of clarifications for your posts in the list
<sm> which I can't remember :)
<mdke> you mean corrections?
<mdke> this is my first time with a wiki, so I am pretty raq
<sm> some, yes
<mdke> raw*
<sm> did you see the thread about parents in ubuntu-doc a few weeks back ? 
<mdke> erm
<sm> I discussed it a little with corey iirc
<mdke> no i wasn't joined
<mdke> i'll look it up
<sm> yes, look up that one in gmane
<mdke> *coughs*
<mdke> gmane?
<mdke> i'm on the web archive
<sm> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/894
<mdke> ok thanks
<mdke> you can set multiple parents?!?!?!
<mdke> but, but
<sm> ?
<sm> mdke: don't forget to peruse http://zwiki.org
<mdke> right
<mdke> if you can set multiple parents, its not obvious for a user tho
<sm> UsersGuide anyway
<mdke> in fact I asked mdz and he said it couldn't be done
<sm> it's not clear that it's a good idea.. we haven't really used it
<mdke> hmm
<sm> but I mention it whenever this comes up
<mdke> the parenting thing isn't really that big a deal is it tho
<sm> I don't think so
<mdke> if users make sure they link BEFORE creating the page, then there is no problem
<sm> I can hide it in 5 minutes if 
<sm> that's the consensus
<mdke> i doubt it will be
<sm> personally I find it imposes some useful order
<mdke> yeah
<sm> like most long documents, books, etc.
<mdke> sm, but people do not use it
<sm> sure they do
<sm> the whole wiki is organized with it
<mdke> well they do, but they parent documents under the wrong place ;)
<mdke> "wrong" is subjective i suppose
<sm> that's easily fixed by a small number of gardeners like yourself :)
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> people always have them under their userpages
<sm> when the wiki was imported from moin, there was no parenting
<sm> enrico got it organized quite quickly
<mdke> kewl
<sm> yeah new stuff often starts under someone's home page
<mdke> best way is to emphasise that you make a link FIRST in the parent page, and THEN create the page using the link
<mdke> anyway here's the deal with me, i'm pretty much a n00b so I'm just happy to carry on discussing things, but essentially I will just work on whatever the system is
<sm> I don't worry about parenting too much
<sm> let people make the page, that's the most important
<sm> anyone can adjust the parenting later
<mdke> hmm
<sm> like formatting
<mdke> problem is that if the parenting is not correct, the page might not get linked and the page will not be seen enough
<sm> we don't expect newbies to get the formatting perfect either
<sm> we rely on cooperation to improve things over time
<sm> when you see a problem like that, you just reparent
<sm> or you add an extra wiki link
<mdke> yup
<mdke> moinmoin is def the way to go btw, rewriting the FrontPage is showing up some dud links
<sm> I think I saw you saying DocumentationArea duplicates FrontPage ?
<sm> you are quite right, it should be merged there
<mdke> oh
<mdke> i forgot about that
<mdke> i'll do it another time
<mdke> or someone will
<sm> yeah
<sm> here's a links page I quite like: http://joyful.com/Squeak
<mdke> *added to bookmarks*
<mdke> ok have done FrontPage
<mdke> have left the dud links for now and will look later
<mdke> need to sleep now
<sm> nice one
<sm> good night
<mdke> nite
<enrico> Hello, good morning.
<enrico> Does someone have the IRC log of the meeting after I left?
<froud> [01:42]  *** enrico has left this server. ("good night!")
<froud> [01:42]  <Mithrandir> did I tell you I don't like XSLT? (:
<froud> [01:42]  <jeffsch> good night enrico
<froud> [01:42]  <froud> Mithrandir: did you patch it
<froud> [01:42]  *** jeffsch has left this channel. ("gotta run")
<froud> [01:42]  <Mithrandir> if somebody can verify that it DTRT for them, I'd appreciate it.
<enrico> froud-away: that was it?
<froud> yep and one bug squashed
<enrico> Cool!
<froud> must go I am working on other stuff
<abelli> vale comites
<abelli> enrico: where can i find a good manual on aptitude?
<abelli> other than man pages?
<enrico> abelli: /usr/share/doc/aptitude
<abelli> enrico: invaluable as always.
<mdke> some wiki pruning done
<mdke> hi abelli, drasko 
<abelli> mdke: ciao ciao
<drasko> mdke, hi
<drasko> hi all
<abelli> drasko: ciao
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-25
<froud> African Greetings
<Burgundavia> hey
<Burgundavia> haven't done that bittorrent stuff
<Burgundavia> been busy
<Burgundavia> will do tomorrow
<froud> OK
<froud> I'm sure you will fit it in somewhere
<Burgundavia> ya
<froud> If you find you have a problem, let us know and we will put it back out for adoption
<Burgundavia> had a dnd convention today
<froud> what's a dnd convention?
<Burgundavia> dungeons and dragons
<Burgundavia> roleplaying
<froud> ah ha
<Kinnison> Morning
<egli> enrico: I'm reading the meeting notes. lol. Sean and Corey made up :-)
<enrico> egli: yup yup! :)
<egli> good to have froud back
<egli> and good notes btw
<enrico> egli: back, and super-active
<enrico> egli: thanks
<egli> seems like a trivial patch to yelp that tolef did
<enrico> indeed.  But I guess that wasn't easy to find
<egli> seems like a lot of problems in yelp could be solved if you speak xsl
<egli> maybe I should look at the source once. Maybe there is more of these one-liner fixes :-)
<enrico> well, appearently there are not many other major issues to be fixed at the momnet
<enrico> but you're always very welcome to look at yelp's code and find improvements!
<egli> ah, too bad :-/. Yes, will try to look at it
<egli> froud was talking about yelp issues. Apparently for these issues he wants to move to a html based solution
<enrico> he's mainly worried about yelp-specific extensions to DocBook that would render our sources problematic with other viewers
<egli> ah, ok. I understand. Probably makes soense
<jsgotangco> hello
<mdke> heh
<mdke> welcome
<mdke> new wiki page at GnomeMenuEditingHowTo, please add/correct etc :)
<jjesse> grin thanks i too would love to be able edit the gnome menu as well
<mdke> heh
<mdke> it is not entirely easy
<mdke> howto is copied from gnome.org
<mdke> so you can trust it
<mdke> hi jjesse btw we haven't met i don't think
<mdke> i am matt
<sivang> mdke: woo onice, I didn't know the menu editor was put back to 2.10 ?
<mdke> 2.12
<mdke> :(
<sivang> eh
<sivang> the next development version?
<mdke> yes there is no menu editor in 2.10
<mdke> unless some user writes one and submits it (see the ubuntu bug linked on that wiki page)
<jjesse> i just joined the group
<jjesse> my name is jonathan, posted once or twice on the mailing group
<mdke> jjesse, yeah saw. I have also just joined.
<mdke> am just wiki gardening atm
<jjesse> grin i'm just trying to understand things right now :)
<jjesse> i did one wiki on how to upgrade from warty to hoary: HoaryUpgradeNotes
<mdke> ah cool
<mdke> keep an eye on it because it may change as bugs are squashed
<mdke> jjesse, i'm gonna add a quick item on the language-pack upgrade
<mdke> useful wiki page that
<mdke> jjesse, btw if you want numbered lists, you have to use 0., then 0. on the next line, then 0. (etc)
<jjesse> ah thanks, it was the first wiki page i have done
<jjesse> nod i am keeping an eye on it
<jjesse> soon will upgrade other box to hoary and see if the experience chanages or improves
<mdke> that will be a very useful wiki page
<jjesse> thanks again
<jjesse> thanks mdke for the update
<jjesse> and correcting my formating :)
<mdke> np
<mdke> i'm not great at formatting either
<mdke> its a bit weird
<mdke> and there is a huge bug with bullet points
<mdke> but for guidance see HelpOnEditing
<mdke> hi froud wb
<jjesse> cool i'll checkout that page
<froud> hey
<mdke> :)
* froud is hacking docs
<mdke> yay
<mdke> froud, do you have time for a quick question?
* froud announces availability of KDE for Ubuntu Installation in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu
<froud> mdke: yep
<mdke> i am slightly confused about the structure of docs in yelp. if I open "help" in hoary, I get 4 options
<froud> ok
<mdke> but the sub-sections under those options are not organised in a logical way
<mdke> is this temporary?
<froud> you are right
<froud> first problem is we need a top level category for ubuntu docs
<mdke> +1
<froud> the order of the docs is auto 
<froud> :-)
<mdke> but maybe the quickguide could go under applications
<froud> I think one of the devs was looking at that
<froud> I am not sure how to make categories
<froud> but yes we can move it
<mdke> at the moment it is really shocking: the quickguide and others are hidden under "other docs"
<mdke> along with some really random stuff
<froud> yes, that's why we want a top level
<mdke> yeah totally
<mdke> it'll get sorted out before release right?
<froud> it was discussed during the meeting.
<froud> enrico: needs to ping someone
<mdke> heh
<froud> mdke: btw if you want things to do you can feel free to start on the Admin Guide
<froud> or any other doc for that matter
<jjesse> is the admin guide even started?
* froud wonders if anyone read his post on round tripping
<mdke> froud, at the moment i will stay on wiki pages. when my exams are finished, I will learn docbook and get involved
<froud> There is an outline
<froud> :-) no worries
<jjesse> i guess i have just looked at the wikis so far, haven't had time to learn docbook
<froud> It's easier than you think
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i have never used subversion either
<mdke> i've installed it and will play with it
<enrico> froud: my ping list is:
<froud> Oh no, enrico wrote a good step by step that will help you then
<jjesse> ive used cvs more then subversion they are similar?
<enrico> froud: jdub for his reviewing of the quickguide
* froud goes off to find it
<enrico> froud: jdub for putting the docs inthe yelp toc
<froud> dong that's the one
<enrico> I pinged him today, he said he's busy and he'll get back to me soonish
<mdke> froud, yes i saw that
* froud comes back with ste-by-step http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
<mdke> froud, its great
<mdke> ciao enrico 
<froud> It's a transscript taken from 30 minutes teaching Liz
<froud> btw where is our linux chick
<froud> enrico: I am gonna see if I can convert FAQ Guide to DOCTYPE FAQ
<enrico> froud: cool!
* enrico goes out to buy carrots and zucchini
<mdke> lol
<mdke> courgettes please!
<froud> and coffee all round while you're at it
<mdke> oh
<mdke> i really need to buy some coffee
<mdke> and a machine
<mdke> the "i don't need coffee" idea is running a bit thin
<froud> caffiene, nicotien and screen radition is all we need to live
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> not me
<mdke> i need food
<froud> food is a nusance
<froud> hav eto get out from between the keyboard and the seat to take it
<mdke> only to cook
<mdke> eating in front of the computer is ok
<mdke> 4 hands might be an advantage tho
<froud> nah I am liable to spill ketup or something gross into the keyboard
<mdke> lol
<mdke> it happens...
<froud> imagine mashed patatoe between the keys
<froud> squish, squish for the next week
<mdke> ouch
<froud> Hey I am off to covert faq guide
<froud> c ya later
<mdke> bye
<mdke> anyone know why the HowTo page was wiped?
<froud> HowTo What?
<mdke> the HowTo wiki page sorry
<froud> nope never used it
<mdke> looks like the last 10 diffs are all blank too
* froud points across the room
<mdke> last 20
<froud> perhaps it never was
<mdke> apparently it was
<mdke> weird
* froud goes back to porting
<mdke> anyone all those upper level docs need some rehashing
<mdke> wiki docs*
<mdke> afk
<froud> enrico: it's ok if I commit the change back to trunk right. I mean we decided not to ship ubuntu-faqguide
<enrico> froud: yes, I
<enrico> froud: yes, I'd say go on
<froud> k if it is a problem I will branch
<enrico> froud: nono: that's not to be shipped with Hoary anyway
<froud> k
* froud announces that faq guide is not ported to use docbook q and a. HEAD is not valid yet. XREFs need to be fixed. Anyone wanting to have a stab at fixing it is welcome. I will pick it up again tomorrow. enjoy.
<froud> opps is now
<froud> oops is now
* froud needs sleep
<froud> c ya later
<mdke> night night
<mdke> bbl
<jjesse> hey mat thanks for making more changes to my wiki post
<mdke> eh?
<mdke> i just changed it once
<jjesse> hmm someone else must have made some changes named mat as i just got two emails saying mat zimmerman just made changes
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jjesse, you get emails saying when people make changes?
<mdke> matt z is basically the boss of ubuntu ;)
<jjesse> grin
<jjesse> nod i'm subscribed to the posts i have made on the wiki
<mdke> hmm
<jjesse> and it emails me when they get changed
<mdke> jjesse, how do you do that?
<jjesse> on the wiki there is a tab labeled "subscribe"
<jjesse> and i can subscribe to the ones that i want to i guess
<mdke> sm, in here shhhh
<mdke> sm, i'm logged in
<mdke> insufficient privileges
<sm> hi all
<mdke> jjesse, thanks
<jjesse> np mdke
<mdke> "subscribe to whole wiki"
<sm> mdke: how about now ? don't forget to shift-reload, just in case cache interferes
<jjesse> subscribe to that page should be on the left side?
<mdke> jjesse, yeah
<mdke> sm, still no
<sm> still bad eh.. one sec
<mdke> btw sm this is jjesse 
<mdke> :)
<sm> should be ok now
<sm> jjesse has infiltrated mdke's brain ? oh no
<mdke> sm, bingo thanks
<mdke> i mean, meet jjesse 
<sm> ah
<sm> hello jjesse
<sm> mdke: it's missing some info since we haven't enabled page rating
<mdke> just as well ;)
<sm> so you'll link those eh
<mdke> erm
<mdke> if you want me to i will
<sm> does it make sense ?
<sm> I think so
<sm> otherwise we'll never remember them
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i've bookmarked em too
<sm> and they're not too expensive if robots hit them
<mdke> the pagesbyType one is very good
<mdke> sm, the icons won't be long i think
<sm> cool
<mdke> i'll do some more now
<sm> if you are doing a lot of editing you may want to try the fast skin and an external editor
<sm> WikiTips
<mdke> oh ok
<mdke> i'll try
<mdke> sm, is that zwiki theme you mean?
<sm> yes
<mdke> ok
<mdke> sm, whats the difference?
<mdke> oh i see
<mdke> lol
<sm> faster, & normal size fonts
<mdke> brilliant
<mdke> oh that's soooo much better
<mdke> thanks
<sm> you're welcome
<mdke> omg that should be the only skin
<mdke> brilliant
<sm> has anyone seen a doc for how to enable the full debian menu ?
<mdke> erm
<mdke> i saw it in a bug report
<mdke> ;)
<Kinnison> it's something like "apt-get install menu-xdg" but I could be wrong
<mdke> maybe i will add it to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GnomeMenuEditingHowTo
<mdke> you can use applications:/// in nautilus for warty. Hoary/GNOME 2.10 will
<mdke> probably not have a graphical editor. You can install menu/menu-xdg to have a
<mdke> debian submenu with all the suff installed.
<jjesse> grin ok i was gone for a bit did i miss anything :)
<jjesse> and who got in my brain?
<mdke> sm, in that skin on the wiki editing page, it links to HelpPage#editing. Is there any chance of getting that changed to HelpOnEditing? I will merge anything in HelpPage#editing into it, its just that that page doesn't explain moin, and is written in rst
<mdke> or perhaps HelpPage would be better
<sm> what about http://zwiki.org/editing
<sm> that HelpPage is pretty old
<sm> or http://zwiki.org/UsersGuide
<sm> I'm not sure which is most appropriate
<sm> oh the skin
<sm> it needs to have some help right there, also, like on http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak
<sm> if someone would care to format a little table like that, I'll add it
<sm> need one for each page type
<sm> mdke: that would be good (debian menu notes)
<sm> I'm surprised I haven't seen it anywhere
<mdke> sm, sorry misunderstanding
<mdke> sm, i wasn't very clear
<mdke> sm, using that skin, when editing a page, there is a link at the bottom to HelpPage#editing
<mdke> sm, but this page clashes a bit with HelpOnEditing
<mdke> I suggest merging the two
<mdke> sm, if the end result was to be moin, it would need a different link because the #editing part wouldn't work if i understand correctly
<sm> yes
<sm> I'll just point it to zwiki.org for now, how's that
<mdke> you don't like HelponEditing?
<mdke> maybe it needs some work
<sm> oh I'm not seeing that.. one sec
<sm> oh this.. I just added a comment
<sm> that's fine, I'd include a prominent link to the zwiki doc also
<mdke> ok kewl
<sm> actually I can't easily change the editform link right now, without breaking skin switching
<mdke> np
<mdke> for now I will put a link on HelpPage
<sm> but you could replace what's on HelpPage with something more useful
<mdke> yeah ok
<sm> maybe it should just be a short roadmap to docs
<sm> HelpOnEditing, ZWiki:UsersGuide, OldZwikiHelpPage..
<mdke> the first few sections are good
<mdke> do the ZWiki:* links work? kewl
<mdke> just the formatting section is not good (because it refers to rst
<sm> yeah.. http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks
<sm> no, it refers to stx
<sm> yes you're right
<sm> if section 8 were redone, do you think the rest is ok for the ubuntu wiki ?
<sm> it was really written for a non-plone zwiki
<mdke> sure
<sm> so I guess if we expand "You'll find more documentation at.." and replace section 8 it's ok
<mdke> yeah that's what i'll do
<mdke> thanks
<sm> thx
<mdke> and i need to investigate this external editor idea
<sm> definitely
<sm> well worth the setup hassle
<jjesse> there is an external editor for the wiki?
<jjesse> sorry that i chime in so random, busy debugging active directory group policy
<sm> yes jjesse, http://zwiki.org/WikiTips
<jjesse> you can call me jon or jonathan doesn't matter and it wouild be esier then jjesse
<sm> sorry, I mean http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiTips
<mdke> heh
<mdke> you might not get the highlights
* sm .oO(wikiwikiwiki)
* mdke adds his name to highlights
<sm> hi jon
<sm> chat clients auto-complete your nick, and beep when it's typed, so whatever you  choose is easiest
<jjesse> oh cool, never really used much of irc beforfe
<mdke> jjesse, if you're on xchat you can get it to beep for "jon" too
<jjesse> ok, think i have it setup jon
<jjesse> jjesse
<jjesse> hmmm not working whne i do it
<mdke> what are you using?
<mdke> jjesse, does it work when i do it?
<jjesse> yes
<jjesse> cool
<mdke> jon, what about now?
<jjesse> yes worked as well
<mdke> :)
<mdke> sm, integrated your comment into HelpOnEditing, it looks more friendly now i hope :) thanks
<sm> cool.. I removed the stx help from HelpPage
<sm> want more feedback ? I might change PLEASE REMEMBER to please consider
<sm> and is it worth mentioning the plone page creation method ? if so, why not include the page management form method as well
<sm> page management form is the quickest and easiest imho
<mdke> sm, 1. ok 2. dunno 3. ok
<mdke> i guess people will use the plone method anyway
<mdke> so i could cut it out
<sm> eg
<sm> - pick a suitable "parent page" for your topic; don't worry, you can change this later
<sm> - scroll down to the bottom
<sm> - enter your new page's name where it says "new parent, name, replacement, subtopic". A WikiName is preferred but not required
<sm> - click create
<sm> - enter some text to start your new page
<sm> - click save
<sm> re plone method, yes, we must stop them
<mdke> lol
<mdke> remove the link?
<sm> but as long as the link remains, it will be used.. perhaps just a note saying it's a bad idea
<mdke> ok will do
<sm> I would, but there are technical difficulties with removing it just now
<mdke> re: PLEASE REMEMBER, how about "please"?
<sm> nice
<mdke> otherwise going through the diff is annoying
<sm> is it ?
* sm doesn't worry about log notes too much.. I agree they're nice when there
<mdke> ok
<sm> if it's an uninteresting change I sometimes don't bother
<mdke> hang on a tic
<sm> "minor edit".. "minor edit".. "minor edit"
<mdke> yeah me neither, in the diff a minor change is easy to spot
<mdke> the page management method you've described there is different to the one on zwiki.org/editing
<sm> is it, how so ?
<mdke> oh no maybe not
<sm> yeah, zwiki's has an extra step
<sm> which we don't need to worry about here.. it's always enabled
<mdke>  Zwiki quick method: use page management form (Zwiki sites only)
<mdke>    1. Click options at top left and configure a username, if you haven't already
<mdke>    2. Click full at top right
<mdke>    3. Open http://zwiki.org/SandBox in another window.
<mdke>    4. In the grey page management form at the very bottom of the page, enter a name for your page. Eg your name without spaces.
<mdke>    5. Click the create button
<mdke>    6. Click the create button again.
<mdke> yours is better
<sm> they're both mine :)
<mdke> lol
<sm> actually on ubuntu wiki, if someone switches to zwiki skin in minimal or simple modes, the page managementform is not visible
<mdke> your latest offering :)
<sm> too many details :/
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> but then most users reading that page don't use that
<mdke> maybe?
<sm> right
<mdke> anyway I will note that
<sm> nah I wouldn't.. they will be consuded
<sm> confused, even
<mdke> "0. Page Management Method (not available if you use the zwiki minimal or simple skin)"?
<sm> I think newcomers to the wiki shouldn't even have to know about different skins
<mdke> yeah ok
<mdke> fair enough
<sm> hard to document it simply :/
<mdke> its not really user friendly enough
<sm> if it were up to me, I would use the zwiki skin in full mode with perhaps some more ubuntu styling
<sm> always
<mdke> yes
<mdke> it appears not to have the bullet pointing bug too, although i haven't doublechecked
<mdke> ok modified
<mdke> thanks again
<sm> nice job mdke
<sm> how about 1. Make a link, 2. Use page management form
<mdke> k
<mdke> sm, you mean as titles?
<sm> yes
<sm> under  There are two main ways to create a page:
<mdke> sm, sure will do.
<mdke> sm, can you do me a favour: go to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ODiaADiaComOUbuntu
<mdke> check out the first two bullet points under the third heading
<mdke> can i avoid this?
<sm> eh, avoid what ?
<mdke> that ? in the middle of the title
<mdke> they should be wikilinks but are not
<sm> oh, NetworkPrinting?2Win2K, sure
<sm> you have to enclose it in [] , because we don't consider numbers in the middle to be a valid WikiName
<sm> only at the end, as a special case
<mdke> ok
<sm> NetworkPrintingToWindows2000 ?
<mdke> fine
<mdke> NetworkPrintingFromWin2K seems to be the only valid link anyway
<mdke> sm, does the zwiki skin have an option to show backlinks
<sm> always list them on the main page ?
<mdke> no just to find them out
<sm> sure, click title
<sm> or alt b
<sm> or the "backlinks" in full more
<mdke> doh
* sm types carefully: or the "backlinks" link in full mode
<mdke> ty
<mdke> i feel terrible for taking up so much of your time
<sm> don't
<sm> this is one way I can help effectively.. if I get busy I'll answer more slowly :)
<mdke> ty
<sm> my bad.. there is no backlinks link these days
<sm> just the title
<sm> see you
<mdke> there is
<mdke> works fine
<sm> I mean in zwiki skin
<mdke> sure
<mdke> title links to it
<sm> right, that's it
<mdke> its very useful
<sm> I thought there was a little "backlinks" as well
<mdke> oh i c what you mean
<mdke> np
<sm> but that would be.. superfluous
<mdke> ;)
<mdke> is x-zope-edit packaged for ubuntu?
<sm> zope-externaleditor
<sm> if you have time, please note that where others will find it
<mdke> sure
<mdke> is there a difference between zopeedit, zope-externaleditor?
<sm> ah, yes there is
<sm> I gave you: This package contains the product which is needed on the machine
<sm> zopeedit is the one you want
<mdke> k cool
<mdke> i always forget to scroll all the way down ;)
<sm> seems to be not in ubuntu :/
<sm> I guess zope in general isn't
<mdke> its there
<mdke> there's billions of zope packages
<mdke> [universe] 
<sm> right, just not ubuntu proper
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> sm, still awake?
<sm> just about
<sm> I replied
<mdke> to mine?
<sm> yup
<mdke> did you see mary's email? there is a question in the last paragraph that you might be able to answer
<mdke> haven't got yours yet
<sm> subject ?
<mdke> Re: Rehashing wikis
<mdke> what did you reply to?
<sm> strange, haven't got that one yet
<sm> I replied to you in that thread
<mdke> weird
<sm> I subscribe to gmane, not the list, maybe a lag
<mdke> do timezones affect when emails are delivered?
<mdke> i'll paste her question
<sm> in fact gmane has been a little slow today
<mdke> I'm not all that familiar with the current wiki software, but is there
<mdke> any place you can store draft pages? (Some people do this on their user
<mdke> pagei on some wikis.) The best way to get this kind of feedback might be
<mdke> to do a draft and solicit either feedback or more people to come in and
<mdke> change things.
<sm> sure, just create it under your home page
<sm> and call it SomethingDraft if you like
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-26
<mdke> ideal time for a 2doh"
<sm> but if she wants it to be private and not editable by others - no, we don't currently allow that
<mdke> *"doh"
<sm> private member folders are turned off
<mdke> i don't think it needs to be private certainly
<mdke> may gmane waits for the email to catch up with a timezone before posting? surely not?
<mdke> *maybe
<sm> no
<sm> got it now
<sm> but not mine, yet
<mdke> 9 minutes late
<mdke> could be worse
<sm> I'll reply to her
<mdke> kthx
<mdke> how well organised is her email technique? awesome
<mdke> ok i just got two emails marked 14.49 and 15.56
<mdke> its 23.08
<sm> something slow at gmane today
<sm> quick answer for you: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/recycle_bin/HowTo
<mdke> ty
<mdke> guess those emails were moderated
<mdke> got your emails now thanks
<mdke> anyone around?
<jsgotangco> hello
<jsgotangco> ack
<froud> African Greetings
<jgotangco_lunch> greets
<froud> hello jsgotangco, you are new, we have have not met. I am Sean
<jsgotangco> hello sean yes I am new, I am Jerome
<jsgotangco> i kinda hanged out because of the moin moin stuff
<Burgundavia> salut
<jsgotangco> :)
<froud> Burgundavia: hello how r you
<Burgundavia> not bad
<jsgotangco> just had lunch here
<froud> Did you see the round tripping message
<Burgundavia> yes
<froud> what do you think?
<Burgundavia> I haven't had a chance to respond
<Burgundavia> Got about 15-20 emails to dig through first
<froud> OK, did you look at the system
<Burgundavia> on my list of things to do
<froud> jsgotangco: are you helping us with the docs?
<jsgotangco> i'm helping out with the wiki
<jsgotangco> but i just started out a few weeks ago
<froud> jsgotangco: that's good
<froud> Burgundavia: OK
<froud> Burgundavia: from what I can see the solution is still very raw
<froud> Burgundavia: it needs more devel to support a number of things
<jsgotangco> i was invited to do this presentation about ubuntu
<jsgotangco> but i haven't even started yet
<jsgotangco> hehe
<froud> jsgotangco: which presentation
<jsgotangco> oh just a local one
<jsgotangco> here in philippines
<froud> For school
<jsgotangco> yes
<froud> Cool stuff
<jsgotangco> i dont want to make it too technical
<jsgotangco> maybe i can do a hoary preview
<froud> looks like ubuntu is getting pretty big in the Philippines
<jsgotangco> it has a following
<froud> that's good to here
<jsgotangco> people here are kind of getting aware to FOSS now
<froud> hear
<jsgotangco> i mean we have a terrible fiscal budget to start with
<jsgotangco> it fits to a tee
<froud> :-)
<jsgotangco> there are a lot of GOOD programmers here but they are only good at programming not for advocacy
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> we're trying to change that
<froud> yes, go-to-market is a new thing in the Linux world
<froud> We are all learning as we go along
<froud> but we are seeing much interest
<jsgotangco> its exciting to be part of a growing segment
<froud> many people stating to use Linux
<froud> yes, its better than building a business in a saturated segment
<jsgotangco> true
<jsgotangco> i want to show you a local news article
<froud> but alas oneday it will be the same for us
<froud> ok
<jsgotangco> hold on let me get that article
<jsgotangco> froud: when that time comes, we have already moved to other ventures lol
<froud> If you want to see what's hapening on the African continent look at http://www.tectonic.co.za/
<froud> yep, that's it
<jsgotangco> where is .za?
<froud> South Africa
<jsgotangco> here it is
<jsgotangco> http://news.inq7.net/infotech/index.php?index=1&story_id=30571
<jsgotangco> oh the prison siege has ended
<jsgotangco> we had a hostage situation that happened here since yesterday
<jsgotangco> well anyway read that article i dunno if i want to laugh or just dismiss it as FUD
<froud> Well I dont want to see windows apps running on Linux
<froud> I cant see the point
<froud> and the danger is
<jsgotangco> yeah i mean
<jsgotangco> if youre migrating
<jsgotangco> make a good migration plan
<froud> people will insall MS Office on Linux
<froud> ouch
<jsgotangco> its like the cedega thing
<froud> Soon as MS gets thier claws into things they start taking over
<froud> and then it is no longer free
<jsgotangco> its just business hype for them
<froud> sure
<jsgotangco> just taking advantage of the growing interest of business here
<jsgotangco> with linux
<froud> yes
<froud> well I am off to hack some docs before the day begins
<froud> nice meeting you
<jsgotangco> later
<froud> Burgundavia: later dude
<Burgundavia> cya
<froud> http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=424
<froud> seems somebody took our release notes and made a transcript from them
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> its exactly the same
<froud> jsgotangco: yes
<froud> I just realized that we have not mentioned kubuntu in the release notes
<jsgotangco> hmm that too
<froud> Burgundavia: come to kde dude:-)
<froud> Burgundavia: please no top posting. If you gonna top post delete the stuff from the original message ;-)
<Burgundavia> sorry
<Burgundavia> I just happen to like Gnome a lot more than KDE
<Burgundavia> it is also default, and all studies show that most users never change the default of any program
<froud> each to his own in that respect
<Burgundavia> I like the fact that there are 2
<Burgundavia> and I like freedesktop.org
<froud> not me I run them both and some other desktops ;-)
<Burgundavia> which wouldn't exist if their weren't 2
<Burgundavia> froud: I am currently working on the bittorrent para
<Burgundavia> But I am not liking my writing right now
<Burgundavia> Should I have 2 paras?
<Burgundavia> 1. expliant bt
<Burgundavia> 2. how to do it
<froud> so mark it as review and we will pick it up
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> is this a known issue? xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl
<Burgundavia> from the check-before commit program
<froud> yes 
<froud> which os you on
<Burgundavia> ubuntu hoary
<Burgundavia> gnome
<Burgundavia> pretty much a default install
<Burgundavia> can I commit though, is the question
<froud> update /libs/html-cust.xsl
<froud> use /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl
<froud> oops
<froud> use /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/chunk.xsl
<froud> You will find that it is already there just commented
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> why is that by default?
<froud> please commit back the change
<froud> may bad
<Burgundavia> ok, will do
<froud> thanks
<froud> I am hacking on SuSE
<froud> and the xsls are installe din the correct place
<froud> on SuSE
<Burgundavia> but not on ubuntu?
<froud> Debian still uses the old location
<Burgundavia> ah
<froud> I will move over once I am happy with kubuntu;-)
<Burgundavia> so switch the comments?
<froud> Yes
<Burgundavia> doing now
<froud> thanks
<froud> we should use a catalog resolver, but catalogs on hoary are broken
<Burgundavia> are there bugs filed for this?
<froud> don'task why
<froud> yes
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> faqguide is borked, but your email explains that
<froud> yes, I will fix things today sometime
<Burgundavia> comitted
<Burgundavia> s/committed/comitted
<Burgundavia> damn that word screws me up every time
<froud> he he, no worries, it's irc we understand ;-)
* froud ponders cc byte.fedora
<Burgundavia> byte.fedore?
<cc> hi. i'm Colin Charles.
<cc> a general fedora person, possibly doing some Ubuntu documentation
<Burgundavia> welcome
<cc> mainly in the form of a livecd sorta thing
<Burgundavia> what sort of livecd?
<froud> Burgundavia: Ubuntu ships a liveCD
<froud> cc: welcome
<Burgundavia> I realize that
<cc> i know; i might want to update something in regards to it
<Burgundavia> cool
<froud> not sure.... you produce a live CD of your own or you want to do someting in regard to UbuntuLive CD
<jsgotangco> the livecd is ok
<froud> jsgotangco: ok so what do you have in mind?
<jsgotangco> well the livecd is a great way to introduce to potential users but what the ubuntu livecd lacks is some sort of documentation or howto at startup like what knoppix has sort of
<jsgotangco> at least a welocome page or something
<jsgotangco> i dunno knoppix just nails it down when it comes to livecds
<froud> jsgotangco: our live cd just loads the desktop
<froud> then you can use System > About Ubuntu to open the intro doc in Firefox
<froud> well whatever you want send a proposal to the list
* froud must get working now
<froud> b c'ing ya
<froud> ;-)
<Kinnison> Morning all
<froud-work> morn
<Burgundavia> hey
<mdke> hi
* Kinnison glares at Burgundavia 
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: I have new toys!
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: two external and one internal battery for my laptop
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: so I have a plausible 15-16 hours battery life
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: hey
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: cool
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: this is also known as "how to try and make the trip to .au not stink
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: ah right
<Burgundavia> Kinnison: what a mess this Eugenia stuff has been eh?
<Kinnison> Eugenia?
<Burgundavia> Osnew flap over gnome not listening to users
<Burgundavia> s/Osnew/Osnews
<Kinnison> not seen it
<Burgundavia> yes you have
<Burgundavia> read planet.gnome recently?
<Kinnison> no
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> little tempest in a tea pot over eugenia trying to start up a users pay for features they want thing
<Burgundavia> and then users telling her, quite rightly, that it is a stupid idea
<Kinnison> heh
<mdke> oh yeah i saw that in slashdot
<Burgundavia> really really stupid, but it gots lot of people worked up over it
<mdke> 600 posts or something
<Burgundavia> it was misreprensented in Slash
<Burgundavia> as was the debian dropping archs thing
<mdke> isn't everything
<Burgundavia> as usual for slash
<mdke> :)
<mdke> how are things going?
<mdke> ok i've started a wiki page for discussion about a new structure
<mdke> damn can't remember the title
<mdke> its under MatthewEast
<mdke> gtg now
<mdke> later all
<froud-work> what would be the quickest and easiest way to specify either gdm or kdm on ubuntu
<mf-> is anyone awake?
<froud-work> yes
<mf-> anywhere around here i can get help on installing xpde on ubuntu?
<froud-work> mf-: I have not seen any docs on how to do that
<froud-work> you like xpde?
<mdke> hi boys and girls
<mf-> dunno, can't get it working
<mf-> first time i've ever used ubuntu tonight
<mf-> so i'm just checking things out
<froud-work> why not try kde
<mdke> froud-work, btw do you work on kubuntu, other than docs?
<mf-> because i've used kde before
<froud-work> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<froud-work> mf-: ok
<froud-work> mdke: yes
<mf-> ;)
<mf-> i haven't used nix in a long time, i don't really remember much 
<froud-work> If you get it working let me know I will document it for you
<mf-> k
<froud-work> Windows user?
<mdke> froud-work, came across a user in ubuntu-it that had an enormous bug, opening a root terminal from the menu crashes on him
<mf-> who, me?
<froud-work> mf-: yes you
<mdke> lets not get abusive ;p
<mf-> used to use nix on every machine i owned
<mf-> but i slowly drifted away
<mf-> now realising the error of my ways, :)
* Kinnison uses Ubuntu on all his systems :-)
<mf-> i only just got hold of ubuntu
<froud-work> "i haven't used nix in a long time"
<mf-> been wanting to check it out for a while
<mf-> correct
<mdke> hi Kinnison
<Kinnison> mf-: You got the hoary preview?
<froud-work> well welcome back
<Kinnison> mdke: Hi
<mf-> huh?
<Kinnison> mf-: What release of Ubuntu have you got?
<Kinnison> mf-: 4.10 or 5.04(preview) ?
<mf-> no idea
<froud-work> mf-: which version of ubuntu do you have?
<mf-> got it on a cd with a magazine
<froud-work> 4.10
<mdke> 4.10 then
* Kinnison nods
* Kinnison glances over at the pile of 4.10 CDs he has left
<mf-> apparently so
<mf-> lol
<froud-work> install and then update to hoary
<mf-> what ver is that
<froud-work> 5.04
<mf-> ahh
<Kinnison> 5.04 will be released in about three and a half weeks
<mf-> i'm only running it in vmware at the moment
<mf-> so i'll probably install it properly in a few days :) i'll do it then
<froud-work> mf-: cummon trach that ntfs partition
<mf-> i plan on it
<froud-work> :-)
<froud-work> cool
<froud-work> welcome back
<mf-> hehe
<mf-> thanks :)
<froud-work> and remember when you figure out how to install xpde, let me know
<mf-> will do
<mf-> perhaps music will help
<mdke> i tell you what i recommend
<mdke> wiki editing in IE
<mdke> its a dream come true
<mdke> /sarcasm off
<mf-> lol
<mf-> hrmm
<mdke> ciao enrico 
<enrico> ciao!
<mdke> enrico, sai come funziona zopeedit?
<enrico> mdke: mai usato :(
<mdke> np
<mdke> stresso simon
<mdke> non c'e'
<mdke> >_<
#ubuntu-doc 2005-03-27
<mdke> yay
* mdke rushes round sm
<mdke> sm, hi :)
<sm> hello :)
<mdke> i can't get zopeedit working
<mdke> it locks the page
<sm> ok.. please explain to me how far you get in words of one syllable :)
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i copied the config from zwiki
<mdke> changed emacs to gedit
<mdke> open my wiki
<mdke> click crayon
<mdke> gedit opens
<mdke> i edit the file
<mdke> save
<mdke> quit
<mdke> error: page is locked
<sm> perfect
<sm> hmm
<mdke> but once or twice it worked
<mdke> maybe when i took not much time over it?
<sm> which page are you testing on ?
<mdke> erm
<mdke> none in particular
<mdke> i was editing last night
<sm> ok.. try TestPage
<mdke> ok
<sm> I'll check permissions etc
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i have some cache issues too
<sm> just shift-reload
<mdke> still no
<mdke> might be my browser i spose
<mdke> whoa
<mdke> yeah its working with a fresh home director
<mdke> y
<mdke> testing now
<mdke> right
<mdke> here is the error
<mdke> Could not save to Zope. Error occured during HTTP put: 423 Locked
<sm> where does that show up ?
<sm> a dialog pops up after your first save ?
<mdke> no after I quit
<mdke> after about 5 seconds
<sm> zopeedit does it's thing each time you save.. it doesn't know about quitting
<sm> but it takes a few seconds to upload etc.
<mdke> erm
<mdke> i think i have it configured differently
<sm> oh
<mdke> # Automatic save interval, in seconds. Set to zero for
<mdke> # no auto save (save to Zope only on exit).
<mdke> save_interval = 0
<mdke> i changed it to that to see if it would get rid of the error
<mdke> maybe is my bad
<sm> mine is 1
<mdke> k retesting
<sm> ok I see the lock
<mdke> ok now i get the error when saving
<mdke> same one
<sm> ok.. now quit it ?
<mdke> what do i do with the error dialogue? retry/cancel
<sm> just cancel
<mdke> ok done
<sm> and now the lock is gone
<mdke> got the dialogue "File not saved to zope, reopen local copy"
<mdke> page not saved
<mdke> how about this in config
<mdke> # Use WebDAV locking to prevent concurrent editing by
<mdke> # different users. Disable for single user use or for
<mdke> # better performance
<mdke> use_locks = 1
<mdke> # To suppress warnings about borrowing locks on objects
<mdke> # locked by you before you began editing you can
<mdke> # set this flag. This is useful for applications that
<mdke> # use server-side locking, like CMFStaging
<mdke> always_borrow_locks = 0
<sm> yeah, try borrow_locks =1
<sm> better ?
<mdke> same :(
<sm> huh
<mdke> don't worry about it
<sm> can anyone else try this ?
<sm> mdke, just try at http://zwiki.org/TestPage
<sm> I have to go.. I'll shout if I think of something
<mdke> no errors
<mdke> yeah it works
<mdke> sm, cool will hang around
<mdke> don't worry tho
<sm> also try it once more on ubuntu testpage
<mdke> k
<mdke> sm, now it works
<sm> interesting
<mdke> yay
<sm> ok all pages should work now
<mdke> ty
<mdke> :)
<sm> though I don't know why anonymous needs webdav unlock permission
<sm> thanks
<mdke> at a later date, we should give some thought to adding a login link to the zwiki skin if it doesn't have it
<sm> you can bring it up by doing alt e
<sm> for now
<mdke> brilliant
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> brb
<mdke> nite
<jsgotangco> good day
<mdke> sm, ping
<sm> .
<mdke> sm, i'm looking for your bug on the ubuntu.com ubuntulinux.org thing
<mdke> you know where it is?
<mdke> that is what is causing my login problems i think
<sm> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5725
<mdke> you're a star
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> hmm
<sm> np
<mdke> you've noted the cache thing already
<sm> gotta run.. back tomorrow
<mdke> bye
<mdke> nite
* sm waves
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i missed that
<jsgotangco> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<froud> African Greetings
<Burgundavia> salut
<Kinnison> Salut Burgundavia 
<froud> Just got my copy of Linux Magazine and guess what's on the CD?
<froud> Ubuntu 5.04
<Kinnison> Yeah; it's an old snapshot
<Kinnison> unless that magazine has gone to press since preview
<froud> Kinnison: It is a snapshot of the development edition
<froud> but hey the DVD looks cool
<froud> sstaes 2.800 packages
<froud> easy installation
<froud> reliable system update
<froud> but they dont mention Kubuntu :-(
<Burgundavia> there are some poepl who are installing it off there and reporting issues
<Burgundavia> does it say Preview or Development version or something on it?
<froud> Burgundavia: it says "full distribution"
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> that is not so good
<froud> Burgundavia: It also says Hoary Hedgehog development edition
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> how prominent?
<froud> Small in compared to FULL DISTRIBUTION
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> it might be good to thank them profusely for including us, but ask us next time please?
<froud> mako: ping
<froud> Burgundavia: nice article though
<Burgundavia> it is way cool that they included it
* Burgundavia has no music because his headphones are borked
* froud is concerned that too much attention goes to GNOME.
* froud wants the media strategy to include Kubuntu
<Burgundavia> good to counteract the balance of the ubuntu is gnome only
<froud> Huh?
<Burgundavia> sorry
<Burgundavia> good to counteract the press that ubuntu is gnome only
<froud> yes
<_froud_> like dude, my ups did not work
<Burgundavia> hmm
* froud is looking for reviewers on the document "Installing KDE for Ubuntu." Source can be checked out from https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu For easy reading a HTML version has been uploaded to http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/inst/desktop-install.html
<Burgundavia> saw it
<Burgundavia> am looking
<froud> Burgundavia: thanks dude. All manner of edits welcome.
<mf-> hey froud
<mf-> i think i may know a reason xpde may not work
<froud> mf-: you still tring to install it :-)
<mf-> i did that last night
<froud> ouch
<froud> did you suceed?
<mf-> was thinking, because it gnome doesn't have a popup taskbar
<mf-> then the "start menu" doesn't work
<mf-> so apart from that, i got the taskbar to show up
<mf-> and the desktop b/g
<mf-> i'm not sure what else is meant to be on there
<froud> surely the desktop should just install
<froud> perhaps it need KDM?
<froud> mf-: is xpde GNOME? I thought it was KDE
<froud> mf-: hmm niether
<mf-> it's gnome
<mf-> i reckon it does need kdm
<froud> what display manager does it use?
<mf-> no idea
<mf-> which?
<froud> if it's gnome then it surely it may require gdm
<froud> but I am not sure it is gnome
<froud> what window manager does it install
<mf-> none
<mf-> you never tried to install it?
<froud> no, nnnver
<mf-> oh
<mf-> i'm not even sure if i installed it right, it's just a conclusion
<froud> it must have somedisplay manager
<froud> you sure it does not have xdm
<froud> try sudo which gdm
<froud> sorry try sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm
<froud> that should give you a view on what it did
<mf-> hehe
<mf-> ok
<mf-> hangon
<mf-> lemme boot it up
<froud> it looks like kde/kdm
<mf-> what's that meant to do?
<froud> what dpkg-reconfigure
<mf-> yea
<froud> you should get a menu showing which display managers are installed and you can select which will be your default
<froud> which display managers are installed
<mf-> it didn't
<froud> it didn't what
<mf-> it just said
<froud> did not install a display manager
<mf-> "reloading gnome display manager configuration"
<mf-> changes will take effect when all x sessions have ended
<froud> ok cause you only have gdm installed
<froud> when you have mutiple Display Managers it list them for you and enables you to change between them
<mf-> what's the normal way to install a display manager
<mf-> and i'll work from there :)
<froud> you could try installing the kde core
<froud> kde-core can be installed from universe
<froud> that will add KDM to your system and then you can try it with xpde
<mf-> i see
<froud> hav eno idea if it will help
<froud> mf-: I must go for awhile, c u later
<mf-> ok
<jjesse> question to anyone paying attention, where would be the best location to learn docbook?
<froud> jjesse: you still tuned
<froud> best place to start learning docbook is http://www.docbook.org
<jjesse> was in a meeting but thanks looking there right now
<mako> froud: hey there
<froud> mako: wher you been dude
<mako> colombia
<mako> still there in fact
<froud> Hmmm, jet setting hey
<mako> :)
<froud> what's the policy on press releases
<froud> All the marketing stuff is ignoring kubuntu
<froud> not fair :-(
<mako> oh.. the kubuntu folks told us to wait last time
<mako> they weren't ready with some things
<froud> Why?
<froud> Well Kubuntu looks cool from where I am sitting
<mako> something wasn't very usuable i can't recall waht
<mako> yeah, they're going to do their own release
<mako> and sorry.. announcments
<froud> OK
<mako> and then the main announcement of the release will include info on both
<mako> that's the plan at least
<froud> Now if I write a news item for a web site, you have any policy with that
<froud> kubuntu related
<mako> no problem
<mako> check with the kubuntu guys
<froud> http://www.tectonic.co.za/
<mako> and in the future, it's a good idea to check with maybe me/jane/mark/jeff 
<mako> but yeah, go ahead
<froud> ok so I will filter it to you guys
<froud> what is marks nick
<mako> sabdfl
<froud> ah yes always get him and seb128 confused
<mako> it stands for either: self appointeed benevolant dictator for life
<mako> or: south african bdfl
<froud> Seems somebody took our release notes and posted an article on the above site
<froud> :-)
<mako> which i like bretter :)
<froud> :-)
<mako> sorry.. i'm quite lagged here :)
<froud> yeah
* Kinnison loves jdub's announcement for breezy
<Kinnison> mako: How much do those powerpads cost?
<mako> i got mine for 240 USD for the 10watthour one
<mako> sorry.. the 120watthour
<Kinnison> what voltage/current?
<mako> which on my laptop is about 12 hours w/o cd
<mako> i think they work with just about everything
<mako> there ar elists of supported models though
<mako> mostly its so you know which cord to use
<mako> it comes with like a dozen different plugs
<mako> for all sorts of laptops
* Kinnison needs 15V/4A in Portege form-factor plug
<Kinnison> same type as the 4000/7140/A100/R100 etc
<Kinnison> tosh fortunately standardised on psus
<mako> ok.. that's teh same as mine
<mako> i got the 120B
<mako> i have a 4000
* Kinnison nods. I *had* a 7140 and now have an A100
<Kinnison> I have about 12h of batteries anyway; but another 12 might be nice
* Kinnison just has to do maths
<mako> wow.. 1h already :)
<mako> yeah.. i get about 12h on mine
<mako> maybe a bit more with the way i normally use it
<Kinnison> Right
<Kinnison> I just bought two externals and another internal for 90 UKP
<Kinnison> that powerpad would be 130UKP
* Kinnison has to decide on the relative merits
<froud> which version of debs is ubuntu based on?
<Kinnison> froud: Erm, it's a rolling 'unstable' snapshot until freeze when we stop taking updates automatically
<Kinnison> approx.
<froud> so I apt-get install knetworkconf
<froud> when I start it I get to select from all known supported distros
<froud> in debs there are three option
<froud> I am updating to hoary development branch
* Kinnison is very confused
<froud> so do I select Sarge, Woody or Patato
<Kinnison> Sarge if you want recent
<froud> ok thanks
<froud> maskie: it's not call more time yet ;-)
<mdke> evening everybody
<mdke> jjesse, ping
<froud> mdke: evening
<mdke> hi froud
<mdke> how are you doing?
<froud> cooking with gas
<mdke> the best way
<froud> kubuntu is rocking
<mdke> yeah?
<mdke> i will try it soon
<froud> now all I need is a way to hide gnome apps while in kde and hide kde apps while in gnome
<froud> Ok good then you can test this for me http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/inst/desktop-install.html
<mdke> on the weekend
<mdke> will do
<mdke> jjesse, ping again
<froud> jjesse: ping 
<froud> mdke: sure
<jjesse> here
<jjesse> sorry
<froud> you need instructions
<froud> patching
<jjesse> yes please
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
<froud> did you do checkout from svn right
<mdke> ^^ instructions :)
<jjesse> just got the instructions
<froud> if you did checkout then ^^ will help
<froud> di dyou read this doc
<jjesse> the one mdki sent me?
<jjesse> just reading this one
<froud> sure
<froud> c point 6
<froud> does this help or you still need assistance
<mdke> thats a wicked doc
<jjesse> it helps is the kubuntu doc in this repository or is there a different one?
<froud> its in svn in branches
<froud> kubuntu doc is in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu
<jjesse> found it 
<froud> do you have the branch in your repos
<froud> wc (working copy)
<jjesse> i just did a svn checkout of branches
<froud> cool
<jjesse> i use cvs a lot so its similar correct?
<froud> cool you can also use svn switch
<froud> but I just do svn co on the repos/ that way I get trunk, branches and tags
<jjesse> cool, question when i make the changes and open it through web browser i get an error
<jjesse> XML Parsing Error: undefined entity
<jjesse> Location: file:///home/jjesse/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-docs/froud/kubuntu/inst/desktop-install.xml
<jjesse> Line Number 30, Column 22:
<froud> dont use a web browser
<froud> especially not firefox
<jjesse> ok
<froud> what editor do you have
<jjesse> i just used emacs cause that what i'm used to using
<froud> cool with psgmls
<jjesse> i would guess so, just installed emacs21
<froud> you should be able to yelp desktop-install.xml
<jjesse> parser error : Entity 'legalnotice' not defined
<jjesse>         </publisher> &legalnotice; <authorgroup> &author-sean-wheller; </authorg
<froud> Hmm hold
<froud> is your branches in  the same folder (relative to your trunk/
<froud> if so it will work otherwise it wont work
<froud> just copy the folder and contents to the same folder that has your trunk
<froud> then it will work
<froud> or mv it
<jjesse> so froud should be in the same dir as the rest of the docs?
<froud> so you should have branches/froud/kubuntu/inst/desktop-install.xml
<froud> in the same folder as somefolder/branshes
<froud> somefolder/trunk/
<froud> branches 
<froud> did you understand what I mean
<jjesse> yeah i do
<froud> ls
<froud> branches  tags  trunk  ubuntu.xpr  vendor
<froud> ok
<jjesse> working on getting it setup, thanks for the  help :0
<froud> no worries, thank you for your help
<froud> in svn the repos normally has branches tags trunk
<froud> but people usualy only checkout the trunk
<jjesse> ok i got it figured out now
<jjesse> in ~/ubuntu-docs/repos
<jjesse> i have branches tags trunk vendor
<froud> well if you did the checkout from repos/ you would have that
<jjesse> nod that was i did
<froud> so you have everything in my branch now inlcuding the learnlinux which is many many many files
<froud> does yelping it now work
<mdke> btw, would really appreciate people's input on the question of wiki structure. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IdeasForNewFrontPageStructure
* froud hides
<jjesse> nope getting THe section '(null)' does not exist in this document if you were direted to this section from a help button in an application, please report this to the maintainers of that application
<mdke> lol
<froud> mdke: I am no good at that kinda stuff
<jjesse> Yelp-CRITICAL **: history_pop_back: assertion `window->priv->history_back != NULL' failed
<mdke> froud, np just a shout out :)
<froud> ok
<jjesse> i did a yelp desktop-install.xml
<froud> from where in the inst/ directory
<froud> what is your pwd
<froud> do pwd
<jjesse> /home/jjesse/ubuntu-docs/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/inst
<froud> an dyou have /home/jjesse/ubuntu-docs/repos/trunk
<jjesse> yup
<jjesse> i have ~/ubuntu-docs/repos and in that dir i have branches tags trunk vendor
<froud> do head desktop-inst.xml and paste it here
<jjesse> jjesse@casops99:~/ubuntu-docs/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/inst $ head desktop-install.xml
<jjesse> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<jjesse> <!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN"
<jjesse>         "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [
<jjesse> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../../../../trunk/libs/xinclude.mod">
<jjesse> %xinclude;
<jjesse> <!ENTITY % globalent SYSTEM "../../../../trunk/libs/global.ent">
<jjesse> %globalent;
<jjesse> ] >
<jjesse> <article>
<jjesse>     <title>Installing KDE for Ubuntu</title>
<froud> thanks right
<froud> do xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid desktop-inst.xml
<froud> it should exit without errors
<jjesse> nothing returned
<froud> then the document is still valid
<froud> so it must be something else
<jjesse> ok so should i then do the step of creating the .dff file?
<froud> are you abl eto yelp the quickguide
<froud> yes
<jjesse> yeah i yelp the quickguide
<froud> and when you did checkout it was svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos
<jjesse> yeah it was, which gave me all the dirs
<froud> Hmm strange it works here
<froud> svn up in repos/
<jjesse> at revision 731
<froud> yep, why can I do an dyou cant
<jjesse> shrug don't know
<froud> do the patch
<jjesse> ok should i just mail you the .diff
<froud> yes sean@inwords.co.za
<jjesse> ok sending it and off to a mtg
<froud> cool thanks
<froud> jjesse: thanks that worked
<froud> jjesse: you will see it come through on the commit-user list
<froud> you are subscribed to it right
<froud> just in case see here http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ForTheHasty
* froud if of to watch a movie
<mdke> have fun
<mdke> hi drasko 
<drasko> hi
<mdke> how are you doin?
<drasko> ok... you?
<mdke> fine thanks :)
<drasko> I am still gathering the informations about what you people do... Lookin' for a way to start helping you out with this :)
<mdke> heh
<mdke> are you interested in helping out with the wiki?
<drasko> Shure. Something specific?
<mdke> well not really
<mdke> hang on
<mdke> if you wanna comment on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IdeasForNewFrontPageStructure?
<mdke> and the other things that _always_ needs doing is converting wiki pages to moinmoin format
<drasko> I will look this url...
<drasko> SimpleFrontPage looks nice
<mdke> heh
<mdke> but it is in html
<mdke> drasko, its not so much the looks, but the structure that we need to think about, the looks can be done later
<drasko> soorry, hat to go a way from the comp for a moment...well, I like idea of those links condensated on one frontpage rather than scrolling the wheell, so I think it is a plus. On the other hand I think that Generel topics should provide a little more information on suptopics right away, haveing in sight people who came here not knowing exactly what they are looking for but just gathering some overview info about what exists...
<drasko> *general
<drasko> *subtopics :)
<drasko> wow, having
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> in terms of the html, its harder to edit than moinmoin so I hope we will be using moin for the frontpage
<drasko> I guess, so everything to be consistant with the moinmoin politics...
<mdke> no not everything
<mdke> if there is a good reason then it can be different IMO
<mdke> but when you try and edit HTML, it is a bit tricky
<drasko> yes... But there is not need for all the pages to be editable by all, the esy way. I mean - some pages are less in need of editing frequenly and by a lot of users. Those pages maybe should be left in html, if it will be more adequate. But I am not yet in all this, just thain to get some threads for now... Besides my all-day work :)
<mdke> drasko, yes you are right
<drasko> mdke, gtg now, so see you soon on the channel. Have a nice evening :)
<mdke> drasko, gnite
<mdke> hi maskie, abelli 
<abelli> ciao everybody
<abelli> mdke: ohh.. how long..
<mdke> lol
<abelli> smurfix: ciao
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-20
<theCore> LaserJock: can i send it to you via Direct transfert ( I got a problem with http right now )
<LaserJock> theCore: hmm, try it again
<robotgeek> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10248
<LaserJock> theCore: sorry I wasn't able to get the DCC (I probably have something turned off).
<LaserJock> theCore: but I see what you are talking about in the robotgeek's screenshot
<LaserJock> thanks robotgeek 
<robotgeek> sure, np. 
<LaserJock> theCore: it looks like the Packaging Guide hasn't been updated in KDE for a few months. It looks like about PG from Christmas time ;-)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: same with desktop guide as well
<LaserJock> actually though that doc could be useful
<Burgundavia> now that I blogged provactively, will anyone care?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: where? 
<robotgeek> fridge?
<Madpilot> planet.u.c
<Madpilot> he's bashing Launchpad :P
<Madpilot> Mark's going to come gunning for you, Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> how do I get old svn versions of a doc?
<Burgundavia> hmm, never mind
<Burgundavia> any idea how to use css on moin?
<robotgeek> Burgwork: svn list, maybe?
<Burgundavia> I got it
<robotgeek> so, it is svn list, is it? useful information :)
<Burgundavia> bloody hell. It doesn't look like I can use custom css on a moin wiki
<Madpilot> nice long blogpost/ad for Epiphany on p.u.c too
<Burgundavia> mine was more of a rant
<Madpilot> yeah, the line about 'killing kittens' sort of tipped me off :P
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, in the bit about not bug-triaging on LP anymore, did you actually mean to write, "I know I am alone in this." or is that missing a "not"?
<Burgundavia> good catch
<Burgundavia> fixed
<Madpilot> not in planet.u.c yet - will it reload?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> 10min intervals
<Burgundavia> night all
<LaserJock> cya Burgundavia 
<trappist> remind me, is the kubuntu quickguide on the list of things we're not worrying about?
<LaserJock> trappist: just a sec
<Madpilot> trappist, I think so
<LaserJock> trappist: last edit was Feb. 15th
<trappist> does that mean we don't like it anymore?
<LaserJock> to be honest, I don't know
* trappist cries
<LaserJock> that is a fairly recent edit in the whole scheme of things
<trappist> I'm ever so useful when I know what to work on
<trappist> and the last thing I asked about was incorrectly listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects so I haven't learned to trust that yet
<Madpilot> we've got a lot of stuff on that Project page that isn't really active...
<trappist> or, better, when I know what not to work on, since we covered the positives earlier today
<LaserJock> trappist: well, some of the problem is that we work fairly independently
<LaserJock> so you would have to talk to the authors to know for sure
<trappist> I guess not all the authors hang out here?
<Madpilot> some time after our string freeze, we should go through that list and note what isn't active anymore...
<Madpilot> trappist, mailing list is better for getting everyone
<LaserJock> trappist: not all the time
<trappist> Madpilot: that's sort of why I asked.  I have a biggish patch to the kubuntu quickguide languishing on the list for a while.
<LaserJock> oh, well it might be that somebody just needs to apply it
<Madpilot> trappist, Jerome is jsgotango when he's on IRC, he's listed as maintainer of the Kubuntu quickguide
<trappist> oh.  don't think I've ever seen him.
<LaserJock> yeah, he seems to be busy lately
<Madpilot> I think he's been on business trips or something
<LaserJock> he does a lot of touring
<trappist> damn rock stars.
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek - know anything about Kubuntu Quickguide?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i know that it is complete, however we need to discuss if the KDG and User Guide conflict. 
<Madpilot> has it been updated for Dapper, though?
<robotgeek> lemme check quickly
<robotgeek> This guide was written midway during the 6.04 development, so parts of it may be incomplete or out of date.
<robotgeek> I think it is not really conflicting, as it covers more basics than the Desktop Guide
<Madpilot> is Kubuntu going to be shipping both guides?
<robotgeek> i am not sure, really. i wanted to ask jerome before, but i forgot about it. we needed to discuss this. 
<robotgeek> however, i think we can ship both
<LaserJock> robotgeek: are we presently shipping the quickguide?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yes
<Madpilot> good, finally figured out Malone's settings - there are two 'Documentation Team' entries in bug-contacts but only one of them actually emails the list...
<robotgeek> heh
<trappist> I'm on the wireless networking part of the serverguide.  I think its final contents are going to depend a lot on the final decision of whether to cram wpasupplicant config tools into the newly available window before release.  should I just leave it alone for now, until we know how that turns out?
<trappist> there's been some traffic on the -devel list about it, and as far as I can tell there's no final word either way yet.
<Madpilot> that could change the wireless sections of the desktop guides, too... 
<Madpilot> I don't do wireless myself, so I'll leave that up to those who do
<trappist> probably even more than the serverguide, since we're talking about gui tools
<robotgeek> Madpilot: there's just too much information about wireless to do a good job in the desktop guides, it is better to leave that job to the wiki
<Madpilot> robotgeek, good point. I'm just glad I still run lots of Cat5 :P
<eleybourn> Sorry if this is the wrong group for this. I am installing about 10 Ubuntu machines to give to one of our local charities for disadvatages families. Anyone know of good documentation to get beginners started with Ubuntu. Pref PDF that I can print out and give. I can't find much on the Ubuntu websites.
<trappist> I think it does belong in there, if only to hold a blurb and point to a good wiki page and maybe a strong recommendation that you research compatibility before buying a wireless card
<LaserJock> eleybourn: help.ubuntu.com
<robotgeek> LaserJock: we don't have pdf's for breezy, iirc
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I know, but h.u.c is the best we've got for the moment
<robotgeek> eleybourn: yes, unfortunately help.ubuntu.com is your best bet. documentation is also included in the install
<Madpilot> talk to mdke, he might be able to build some PDFs of Breezy's docs
<eleybourn> I had seen that. Most of it is designed more as a FAQ not really as a beginners introduction
<Madpilot> eleybourn, we've got PDFs of the stuff we're writing for the new release, but not for Breezy...
<trappist> actually, screw it.  I don't have enough wireless foo to do anything more useful than fill the hole in the doc, so I'll leave the hole for somebody more qualified.
<eleybourn> There's a great little apache group program called fop. It turns XML into PDF's. A little nasty to learn (no docs, only examples).
<Madpilot> eleybourn, that's what we're using :P
<Madpilot> well, what mdke is using, actually
<eleybourn> shiny
<robotgeek> yeah, i used that too
<LaserJock> eleybourn: yeah, I think Dapper will have xml, html, and pdf
<eleybourn> Will there be a beginners tutorial doc in Dapper?
<LaserJock> eleybourn: take a look at doc.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> eleybourn: that is our working docs for Dapper
<Madpilot> eleybourn, the Ubuntu Desktop Guide has been significantly rewritten for Dapper
<eleybourn> Ok. I missed d.u.c. I'm liking the desktopguide
<eleybourn> I think theres even a few things in there I didn't know & I've been using Debian/Ubuntu for years.
<Madpilot> d.u.c is unstable, the HTML stuff there is built from our SVN repo twice a day - so it's nearly as current as it gets
<eleybourn> Big question sorry. How applicable is the new desktop guide to Breezy. From my cursory glance it seems fine.
<Madpilot> most of it should work, I think - not all of it, though
<Madpilot> some minor but irritating things like menu layouts have changed slightly btwn Breezy & Dapper
<eleybourn> Thanks. 
<Madpilot> AFAIK, all of the apps we mention in the Ubuntu Desktop Guide exist for Breezy too - some of them are in different repositories, though
<eleybourn> Anyway thanks for the help. My only AU$0.02 would be to put screenshots into the desktop guide. Beginners are going to want to see what their looking at.
<eleybourn> TTFN
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what we need, tons of orange ;-)
<robotgeek> hmm, i just sent off an email ot the doc list
<Madpilot> LaserJock, not a fan of Dapper's default theme? :P
<LaserJock> robotgeek: are you talking about Kubuntu or Ubuntu or both?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: kubuntu, sorry
<LaserJock> Madpilot: don't really know, haven't seen it yet
<LaserJock> Madpilot: only a couple screenshots
<robotgeek> trappist: ping
<trappist> pong
<robotgeek> trappist: i saw your email to list, kmail complains about a "Warning: The signature is bad" mostly as it was signed by a different email, i think
<robotgeek> trappist: however, i was wondering if you care to work in the integration of the docs
<trappist> I don't remember a post like that.  that would make sense :)  I remember reporting a bug about kmail failing to remember my preference to accept an ssl certificate, though
<robotgeek> PATCH: More serverguide additions mostly
<robotgeek> that email is the one kmail was complaining about. nvm
<trappist> at the moment I can say maybe on the integration.  I had my sights on a couple of other things, and my lack of real docbook foo or any real familiarity with either doc would probably slow me down a bit. 
<trappist> but I do have the time, so do keep in touch about it.
<trappist> come to think of it, I know about as much about postfix as I do about wireless networking, which is just enough to make it work for me, so I'll probably end up leaving that alone...
<trappist> so yeah, I can work on that :)
<robotgeek> trappist: i'll start working on it right now, i'll probably get a fair idea by tommorow
<trappist> ok I'm gonna head to bed.  I'll look for a clue about what needs doing in the morning.
<robotgeek> cool
<trappist> g'night
* trappist &
<robotgeek> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut robotgeek
<robotgeek> trying to decide if i should start work on that or go to sleep :)
<Burgundavia> on which?
<robotgeek> the integtration
<Burgundavia> of?
<robotgeek> Quickguide and Desktop Guide for Kubuntu, sorry
<robotgeek> i tht u saw the email to the list
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop <-- my current project
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, isn't that the Quicktour reborn?
<highvoltage> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: yes, but on the website
<Burgundavia> salut highvoltage
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: still enjoying launchpad?
<highvoltage> :)
<Burgundavia> I am typing with bloody stumps, if that is what you mean :)
<robotgeek> heh
<highvoltage> hehe
<Madpilot> "I would rather have my fingers gnawed by rabid chimpmunks than use Launchpad some days." - Mark really is going to hunt you down, Burgundavia :P
<Burgundavia> well, if I was using Kubutu, it would be Knawed
<robotgeek> lol
<Madpilot> need sleep - later, all
<robotgeek> later Madpilot 
<mdke> Burgundavia, sure you can use css on the moin wiki. Either use a table, or use html directly
<Burgundavia> doesn't seem to be turned on
<Burgundavia> regardless, somebody from #moin gave me a hand
<Burgundavia> http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php?tab=features <-- very cool
<mdke> damn no one has replied on the freeze thread
<Burgundavia> I think we go wit your suggestion then
<robotgeek> mdke: was just on my way out. have you seen my new emails to the list?
<mdke> Burgundavia, which? ;)
<mdke> robotgeek, yes
<Burgundavia> mdke: 2 weeks
<robotgeek> mdke: i think there will be sizeable amount of work to be done if both Quickguide and Desktop Guide are to merge, with new screenshots etc. 
<mdke> robotgeek, I think the best idea is if you just do what you can, and don't worry about how much you can merge, the DG is already quite complete, I think.
<mdke> use what you like
<robotgeek> yes, the Desktop Guide is quite complete. 
<robotgeek> do i have 2 weeks + 10 days as such?
<mdke> I don't know
<Burgundavia> the delay is not official yet
<mdke> it might look weird to have just a few screenshots, I don't know
<robotgeek> it's just too much work, and too much is bound to change. work on merging them will become useless there is a UI freeze. 
<robotgeek> i'll just focus on getting everything in order then
<mdke> may that is the best thing
<mdke> screenshots are kinda nice, but they are a pain to take in bulk at the end of the cycle, and they will very likely untranslated
<robotgeek> i just saw your email on the list
<mdke> -> work
<robotgeek> bed
* mdke nukes some stuff in svn
* Kamping_Kaiser waits to see D's beside files in teh next svn up
<mdke> hey trappist 
<mdke> actually, unping
<mdke> bhuvan, how is the serverguide going? are there a lot mroe gaps left?
<bhuvan> mdke, going good. few gaps are left
<mdke> cool
<mdke> will they be filled for next week do you think?
<bhuvan> mdke, i guess not
<bhuvan> mdke, just imap & email services are pending
<bhuvan> mdke, i will to fill the gap if possible
<mdke> oh cool
<mdke> there is some email material on the wiki, you could use that
<bhuvan> mdke, ok
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MailServer
<bhuvan> sure i'll check it out
<mdke> there are guides for postfix and dovecot
<bhuvan> i'll take a look
<trappist> robotgeek_zzz: I just figured out what you meant last night.  yeah, I probably should have mentioned that I signed one of my emails just before noticing that the wrong email address was primary in my gpg key.
<robotgeek> trappist: how do i change primary keys?
<mdke> hey trappist, I added a small section in the desktop guide about that crontab @reboot thing, if you fancy checking it out, that would be cool. You mentioned on -devel that it is a common question
<mdke> btw great work on the server guide patches
<robotgeek> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi
* jsgotangco has been so busy lately
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i will see if i can copy stuff from the QuickGuide, i think i can
<robotgeek> i'm only worried about the screenies, i don't think i can actually change them
<jsgotangco> i made some minimal changes early on during flight 3
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> screenshots wouldn't really eat that much time
<jsgotangco> since flight 5 kubuntu is out, its possible to update them
<mdke> but not translate them
<mdke> perhaps that isn't a massive deal tho
<jsgotangco> oh translating is out of the question for now if merging two docs
<robotgeek> i really like chapter 1 in Quick Guide
<jsgotangco> well that's the quick guide thing
<jsgotangco> the others are just filler imo
<mdke> i thought everyone agreed that merging was a bad idea?
<robotgeek> err, chapter 2
<robotgeek> mdke: i keep getting tempted :)
<jsgotangco> mdke, the kubuntu quick guide has some nice parts that the original quick guide didn't have
<robotgeek> shiny pictures
<mdke> up to you robotgeek 
<robotgeek> let me see if i can do somethind today
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, if your aim is rosetta, i'd suggest not doing it and instead focus on the original goal
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: i think i will be done today
<jsgotangco> sure :)
<jsgotangco> ok i gotta get out, just checked email
<jsgotangco> cheers
<robotgeek> later jsgotangco 
<mdke> robotgeek, you've got another week after today, don't fret
<robotgeek> mdke: sorry for being so fickle minded
<mdke> robotgeek, ?
<robotgeek> mdke: about the merging and stuff
<robotgeek> i am going to try it and see how much work it actually is.
<mdke> robotgeek, i don't see how you are being fickle
<robotgeek> mdke: i said yesterday that i won't do it, today i am saying that i will try it
<mdke> oh no problem
<trappist> robotgeek: you gpg --edit-key, use 'uid' to select the key you want to be primary, then I think you just say 'primary'
<robotgeek> yes, figured that out. i made the same mistake too
<robotgeek> is there a way to select from kmail the email id to sigh with?
<robotgeek> sign
<robotgeek> yelp is borked in dapper, sigh
<mdke> how?
<trappist> you can't select a subkey from a key, that I can tell.  yelp was working for me in dapper last night just fine.
<robotgeek> i just dist-upgraded in kubuntu, Depends: libgnomeprint2.2-0 (>= 2.11.0) but it is not going to be installed
<trappist> oh dependency issues.  tried apt-get install yelp libgnomeprint2.2-0?
<mdke> but you can still use it right?
<robotgeek> libgnomeprint2.2-0: Depends: libgnomeprint2.2-data (= 2.12.1-0ubuntu1) but 2.12.1-3build1 is to be installed
<robotgeek> no, the dist-upgrade removed yelp
<trappist> mdke: somebody told me about @reboot years ago and I forgot all about it
<mdke> trappist, it's clever. I had no idea about it
<trappist> I never would have looked at crontab for that
<robotgeek> hey, i am going to steal that too :)
<mdke> robotgeek, maybe ping seb128 about it or maybe it is waiting on a build
<robotgeek> i'll just boot into breezy
<trappist> btw is it an accident that the serverguide is under generic but it builds under the ubuntu dir?
<robotgeek> trappist: probably not
<mdke> no
<mdke> if you want it in blue you can build it under the kubuntu dir too
<trappist> was just wondering because when I built I looked for it under generic since that's where the source is
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it should tell you where the build is at the end of the process
<trappist> network-applications.xml is gonna hit 3000 lines by the end of the day.  anybody think it should be split up?
<trappist> mdke: yeah, that's how I found it, but I didn't look first.
<mdke> trappist, don't split it up if it is the same chapter
<trappist> I wouldn't know how to anyway :)  it's just getting to be a little cumbersome to work with.
<mdke> trappist, then again, if you can think of a coherent way to split it into two chapters, that would work
<trappist> well I can - not all of it is network applications.  a lot is network configuration, and I think the firewall section could fall under that too.
<trappist> also it's probably late in the game to be bringing this up, but we don't have a securityguide?
<mdke> what's the difference?
<trappist> the difference between network configuration and network applications?
<mdke> trappist, yes
<mdke> oh you mean network configuration is "connecting to the internet"?
<mdke> that would make a bit of a rubbish chapter on its own though
<trappist> probably right
<mdke> any idea why long lines are truncated here: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/configuration.html
<mdke> silly idea, IMO
<trappist> I agree
<Burgwork> somebody was looking for me?
<robotgeek> mdke: do you know if kubuntu is going to have a install guide
* robotgeek gives up on merging, too many things to verify and change. 
<trappist> doh
<trappist> I was just about to get started :)
<trappist> too hairy?
<robotgeek> trappist: too many small changes, it may be possible if we both work on it. 
<robotgeek> lemme give you a preview
<trappist> you think it's worth it?
<robotgeek> trappist: moment, uploading
<robotgeek> trappist: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/merging-web/C/ 
<robotgeek> trappist: havent done much there except split up the chapters
<trappist> robotgeek: holy crap you went to uta?  are you still in arlington?
<robotgeek> trappist: nope, i moved to jersey 3 weeks ago
<robotgeek> why?
<trappist> I'm in arlington
<robotgeek> trappist: damn!
<trappist> haha
<trappist> I live off cooper and green oaks
* robotgeek smacks trappist for not contacting doc team earlier
<trappist> no kidding :)
<robotgeek> i used to live off Yates and Uta Blvd
<trappist> is that on campus?
<robotgeek> trappist: you do to uta?
<robotgeek> yes, that is on campus
<trappist> nah, I got through high school by the skin of my teeth and joined the marine corps
<LaserJock> lol, we were talking about a Southwest US loco team last night on -devel
<LaserJock> the MOTU Science team almost covers it ;-)
<robotgeek> trappist: neways, i might come down in may. we will meet then 
<trappist> robotgeek: and you're a libertarian.  can't believe I missed you!
<trappist> be 3 friggin weeks.
<robotgeek> heh
<trappist> at least I assume so based on your ayn rand fanhood
<robotgeek> yeah, someone pointed out to me that i might not be using that word in the correct sense of it or whatever the modern connotation is
<LaserJock> robotgeek: so are you done at UTA?
<robotgeek> trappist: anways about the docs, it will have to be reviewed again, newer screenshots taken and stuff. let's do it for dapper + 1, lol
<trappist> I feel ya dog
<robotgeek> LaserJock: done, moved out and stuff
<trappist> robotgeek: you ever read esr's stuff?
<robotgeek> trappist: yes
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I'm envious ;-)
<trappist> that's pretty much my brand of libertarian
<robotgeek> LaserJock: now i need to find a job, heh. which is why i have so much time on my hands
<robotgeek> trappist: kkhatman lives in dallas
<trappist> I recognize that nick.  I think.
<robotgeek> trappist: yes, he contributed a section to the KDG 
<trappist> robotgeek: what's in jersey? we might have something for you here in keller if you're not unpacked yet :)
<robotgeek> trappist: nothing in jersey. my sister offered rent free living while i look for jobs
<trappist> free rent is nice
<robotgeek> trappist: maybe we should go to /msg ?
<trappist> good call
<trappist> robotgeek: can you not hear me in /msg?
<robotgeek> nope
<trappist> oh freenode is telling me to register.  and I'm registered.  lemme check it out...
<Burgwork> anybody want to help me with some docbook?
<Burgwork> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/press_release/docbook/C/press_release.xml?rev=1.16&view=markup
<Burgwork> make this wiki page http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointThirteen/PressRelease into docbook, ala the above link
<trappist> Burgwork: it looks pretty decent in yelp
<Burgwork> think you can do the docbook conversion?
<trappist> well I'm a docbook newbie, but if I download pressrelease.xml it looks an awful lot like docbook
<Burgwork> grab the text from the wiki page I mentioned
<Burgwork> and copy it into docbook
<trappist> oh, at first glance they looked to be the same doc... yeah I'll give it a shot.  it'll help me flex my puny docbook muscles.
<Burgwork> it is a pretty easy conversion
<Burgwork> simply copy text
<trappist> I assume the draft and embargo business should be omitted?
<trappist> and that typos should be corrected? :) (like "Some the key new features")
<Burgwork> trappist, yes
<mdke> robotgeek, re installguide, no idea. but the installer has documentation onboard
<robotgeek> mdke: okay, just wanted to add a section after "getting kubuntu"
<mdke> robotgeek, sounds reasonable. Maybe explain there are 2 install methods (live cd and install cd), and give a brief description or something
<robotgeek> yes. i'll look for documentation on that, and copy paste it in :)
<mdke> heh
<Burgwork> trappist, how are you doing?
<mdke> Burgwork, what are you up to?
<trappist> Burgwork: it's coming along pretty well between work-related interruptions
<Burgwork> mdke, I am getting trappist to covert the gnome 2.14 press release to docbook
<mdke> Burgwork, how come?
<Burgwork> because I don't have the time and it needs to be done by eob today
<mdke> right, but what is it for?
<Burgwork> press release for GNOME 2.14
<mdke> right, but why in docbook?
<Burgwork> so it can be translated
<mdke> ah
<mdke> the release notes are probably in docbook
<Burgwork> yes
<mdke> if you ask in #docs on the gnome channel, you can get some help from the gnome guys I guess
<Burgwork> gnome builds all their entire website out of cvs
<mdke> even more of a reason to ask the gnome guys to help
<Burgwork> the press release is pretty simple docbook
<Burgwork> mostly it is just copy pasting text
<trappist> I'm almost done with this work stuff, and the docbook conversion is going quickly otherwise.  I should be done shortly.
<Burgwork> plus it is a good way for trappist to get his feet wet with docbook
<mdke> haha
<mdke> trappist, don't listen to him, he's just avoiding learning docbook himself :D
<Burgwork> I know docbook. I just don't like it and avoid it
<trappist> I don't know it so well.  when I do I'll likely avoid it too.  sorta like python :)
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't mind docbook and I really like python
<Burgwork> mdke, ^ that is going to go at /desktop eventually
<mdke> Burgwork, right
<Burgwork> feel free to edit
<mdke> ok
<Burgwork> it is actually that I am a lazy sob and really want other people to do my work
<mdke> I'm behind on your book
<mdke> but I'll look at some stage
<mdke> Burgwork, what is the intended style of that page, language-wise?
<Burgwork> light fluffy feature/value intro to Ubuntu on the desktop
<mdke> i would simplify the language a bit to ensure that non-native English speakers can get on well with it
<Burgwork> sure
<Burgwork> It is mostly just a copy of the quicktour at this point
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> there is some material on the flash thing page
<Burgwork> hmm, forgot about that page
<trappist> Burgwork: http://tra.ppi.st/pressrelease.xml
<Burgwork> trappist, excellent! thanks so much
<trappist> np
<mdke_> yay for Riddell
* mdke_ will change kubuntu-docs over to xsltproc
<robotgeek> awesome. 
<mdke_> robotgeek, you can use xincludes in the DG once I commit the changes tomorrow
<robotgeek> mdke_: that will help in what way though?
<mdke_> it will help for translating. But also, it will mean that there will be one target for each doc in the Makefile, instead of 3. And new contributors won't need to learn two ways of doing things.
<robotgeek> :)
<mdke_> xincludes are good
<mdke_> ok, -> bed
<robotgeek> i'll take your word for it :)
<robotgeek> night mdke_ 
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-21
<LaserJock> mdke_: ping?
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody here?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> we have to move the Freeze
<robotgeek> LaserJock: why?
<LaserJock> because the UI Freeze was moved
<robotgeek> linky?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
<robotgeek> LaserJock: but has this been approved
<robotgeek> yes,is see
<robotgeek> LaserJock: isn't 2 weeks enough
<robotgeek> April 20th to May 4th
<LaserJock> robotgeek: we were going to have the Freeze April 6th
<robotgeek> brb
<Burgwork> can we do an internal docteam string freeze on the 6th
<Burgwork> that way we can go to translators early, with the understanding that small strings might change
<LaserJock> but if the UI freeze isn't until the 20th ...
<Burgwork> realistically, not much is going to change except for screenshots
<LaserJock> hopefully, although there was discussion today about playing dvds
<Burgwork> yes
<LaserJock> I think your probably right
<LaserJock> s/your/you're/
<robotgeek> LaserJock: did they take out libdvdcss?
<robotgeek> anyways, i gotta cook some grub, later 
<LaserJock> well, supposedly gstreamer will have it in the future
<LaserJock> not sure though
<arito> Hi. Is it OK to use this channel to point a tiny error in Dapper documentation, or should I rather do it on ubuntu-docs@lists.ubuntu.com?
<Burgwork> arito, what is the issue?
<arito> It's in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/programming.html#java. On phase 6. there's "sudo" missing from the instruction.
<Burgwork> hmm, actually, can you raise that on the mailing list?
<Burgwork> that way it gets logged
<arito> I'll do that, thanks :-)
<robotgeek> Burgwork: bvm, i'll fix it
<robotgeek> nvm
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
<theCore> hey LaserJock
<Madpilot> hi al
<Madpilot> all, even
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<theCore> party time!
<theCore> ;)
<robotgeek> theCore: why?
<theCore> I saw everyone saying hi to all, so it's a party
<robotgeek> heh
* LaserJock gets his party hat on
* robotgeek brings virtual beer
<LaserJock> robotgeek: is it light? ;-)
<LaserJock> lite I guess
<robotgeek> LaserJock: depends on your drink time flags
<Madpilot> lite beer isn't beer, it's an abomination
<robotgeek> Madpilot: ++
<Madpilot> Guiness forever! :P
<robotgeek> *chilled*
<theCore> heh hey!
<theCore> long life to Dapper
<LaserJock> 3-5 years at least ;-)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: so, what are our deadlines again?
<Madpilot> robotgeek, the wiki page still has May 4th
<robotgeek> okay
<Madpilot> sounds like most are happy with a much shorter extension, though
<Madpilot> early April or so, and give the rest to the translators
<robotgeek> sounds good to me
<LaserJock> guys, check out wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
<LaserJock> if you haven't already ;-)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yes, but we decided on a internal freeze, right?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> UI freeze is 20th of April
<LaserJock> but Corey pointed out earlier that there probably isn't going to be any big changes before UI Freeze
<LaserJock> I think it is mostly we get done when we get done
<robotgeek> heh
<LaserJock> everything but my silly doc seem pretty much ready to go
<Madpilot> we could keep tweaking the Desktop Guides, but they'll work as-is
<robotgeek> Madpilot: you can put in all your funkiness
<Madpilot> one thing I'd like to see added - but couldn't write myself - is 'installing your bookmarks from FF/IE/etc in FF in Ubuntu' - make things easier for switchers
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i don't have a section on firefox at all :)
<Madpilot> can Konq import any other browser's bookmark files?
<robotgeek> yes, firefox / mozilla i think. lemme check
<Madpilot> that's one of the major reasons I stick with Opera - I've got a massive bookmark file, and neither FF nor Epiph can import Opera bookmarks (Opera can import FF, IE & Netscape, though...)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: opera can't export?
<Madpilot> only as it's own bookmark file or as HTML, it looks like
<robotgeek> Madpilot: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/i10321
<Madpilot> cool - good for Konq!
<robotgeek> Madpilot: now i gotta document this :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, you should also tell ppl where to find their bookmark files in Windows
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i can point them to a resource somewhere, i don't want to spoil the guide with windows stuff :)
<Madpilot> heh. your prejudices are showing, robotgeek :P
<robotgeek> yeah, and why not :)
<Madpilot> For Opera, typing "opera:about" in the address bar will get a display that includes where the bookmark file is
<robotgeek> hmm, kinda tough if you don't know that anyways :)
<Madpilot> Epiphany's bookmark handling is so different, I'm not surprised I can't even find an "Import Bookmarks" function in it...
<robotgeek> it does what, tagigng?
<Madpilot> yes
<Madpilot> rather than categories - think GMail
<Burgundavia> it is there
<Burgundavia> bookmarks, edit bookmarks
<Burgundavia> on the popup, file, import bookmarks
<Madpilot> ah, thanks. FF & Konq only, though
<robotgeek> it's going to be a pain if you havent tagged since the beginning. plus i use simpy.com for that
<Burgundavia> it can do from file
<Burgundavia> doesn't list Konq if Konq is not installed
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: are you playing with the evil KDE?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, nope, this is my Breezy install
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: why so much anger :)
<Burgundavia> brb. Installing flight5
<LaserJock> hmm, what are the possibilities for "status"?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: it's on wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
<LaserJock> ah, thanks. I was thinking I might set a status tonight ;-)
<Madpilot> bottom of the Projects page, LaserJock 
<LaserJock> do you generally set the status at the scect1 level?
<Madpilot> on UDG, most sect tags have their own status - they all show up in the status display, even down to sect4
<LaserJock> hmm, ok thanks guys
<LaserJock> I think I've got a section to put in "review"
<LaserJock> gotta go to bed now
<natroll_movie> later jocky
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, back in Flight5? Enjoying the orange? :P
<robotgeek> now people are going to say "i loved the brown"
<highvolt1ge> robotgeek: i'm even missing the brown!
<highvolt1ge> robotgeek: and i had a *strong* dislike for the brown (to put it mildly)
<robotgeek> highvolt1ge: exactly! 
<highvoltsg> grrr
<Madpilot> I liked the brown; I found a derivitive theme with a slightly redder brown that I like even more :P
<robotgeek> i actually liked the brown, i found it very easy to read
* highvoltage still likes blue, call me old fashioned
<highvoltage> the brown did grow on me.
<robotgeek> highvoltage: that's why we use kde :)
<highvoltage> i even dreamed about using a future OS and it was brown in my dream.
<robotgeek> now with 40% more blue
<highvoltage> well, I use a Blue GNOME, which is just about 5% less blue that kubuntu
<robotgeek> highvoltage: no one likes the new kubuntu blue, so i guess it's in the same boat as ubuntu
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: no, the cd wouldn't boot and I am already enjoying teh orange
<highvoltage> see, blue: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/gartublu?full=1
<robotgeek> highvoltage: left handed?
<highvoltage> robotgeek: no, don't let the gnome meny position mislead you :)
<highvoltage> robotgeek: i never use that anyway, so i just put it out of the way
<robotgeek> heh, okay
<robotgeek> highvoltage: where's your terminal :)
<highvoltage> robotgeek: the apps at the right are what i use mostly, for anything else, I press ALT+F2 and run
<highvoltage> robotgeek: i open it from desktop
<highvoltage> robotgeek: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/gnome_terminal_4
<highvoltage> robotgeek: i always have a terminal open on one of my virtual desktops
<highvoltage> robotgeek: i press ctrl+alt+left/right to switch
<robotgeek> highvoltage: cool
* highvoltage is a gnome power user :)
* natroll_movie only ever uses one desktop
<natroll_movie> never got used to multiple desktops
<Madpilot> I run 8 :P
<highvoltage> natroll_movie: it sux when you use the mouse to switch, too much work, i like lots of keyboard shortcuts
<natroll_movie> me too
<robotgeek> highvoltage: if you use firefox, get the next please extension, and http://users.tkk.fi/~psillanp/hah_hp/
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> nice plugin. i think konqueror has that built-in.
<robotgeek> highvoltage: it works better than the konq one. konq only does a-z
<highvoltage> i use konqueror often to test browser compatibility, and i've seen those tags on web pages when i've accidentally pressed something before.
<highvoltage> ah.
* highvoltage installs
<robotgeek> kill the rodent, now
<highvoltage> hehe, is kubuntu also turning orange? http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1862
<robotgeek> we object!
<highvoltage> robotgeek: the riddel has spoken!
<highvoltage> :)
<robotgeek> 40% more blue
* highvoltage tries to imaging the Ubuntu orange theme, but just 40% more blue
<robotgeek> yuck
<mdke_> morning
<robotgeek> morning mdke_ 
<Burgundavia> morning mdke
<mdke> hi robotgeek, Burgundavia 
<mdke> it's time to unleash my kubuntu changes
<robotgeek> mdke: awesome, xslt proc :)
<Burgundavia> ok, building gimmie defeats me
<mdke> unleashed
<mdke> so are we definitely dropping quickguide for kubuntu?
<robotgeek> ++
<robotgeek> it becomes totally redundant with Desktop Guide and a Kde Quick Guide
<mdke> I'll do that too
<robotgeek> mdke: don't delete it yet
<robotgeek> i need to go thru it and copy some relevant stuff
<robotgeek> maybe just comment it in the makefile
<mdke> I won't delete it, just removing it from the package
<mdke> so have they approved a new freeze for us without asking?
<robotgeek> mdke: yes
<mdke> ok, we need to deal with that
<mdke> 6 weeks is insane
<mdke> realistically, not a lot is going to change for UI freeze, I don't think
<mdke> and anyway, screenshots can be updated at any time, that doesn't count as a string :)
<robotgeek> mdke: yes, maybe colors and stuff might change, but the rest should be okay
<robotgeek> mdke: good point "pics not strings"
<mdke> if we don't change the name of screenshots, and they aren't translated, I see no reason why they can't be updated at any time up to release
<robotgeek> correct
<robotgeek> so all we need to is to atleast have placeholders
<mdke> quite
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> this is a pain
<mdke> string freeze isn't until April 27
<robotgeek> Hope they don't go changing about stuff here and there
<mdke> hmmmm
<mdke> ok I'll send a proposal to the list
<robotgeek> ill read it there
<mdke> does the TB have an email address?
<Burgundavia> mdke: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
<mdke> thanks
<robotgeek> mailto:technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<robotgeek> oops, too fast
<mdke> ok mailed
<robotgeek> yes, replying now :)
<robotgeek> mdke: should i cc the TB
<Madpilot> I'm committing dean's UDG patches now, just fyi
<mdke> robotgeek, yeah
<mdke> Madpilot, rock
<Madpilot> Committed revision 2614.
<robotgeek> mdke: rock with the xslt stuff
<robotgeek> mdke: would i have to change anything now? i think bring back the headers
<Madpilot> mdke, could we remove the entire ubuntu/menus/en directory? it seems to be redundant w/ menus/C ?
<robotgeek> -> bed
<Madpilot> later, robotgeek 
<robotgeek_zzz> later Madpilot 
<Madpilot> mdke, ping
<Madpilot> two commits is enough for one night. Later everyone
<jjesse> so do we now refer to dapper as 6.06 instead of 6.04?
<lloydinho> I think so. At least that's how I understand this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-March/005555.html
<trappist> what's the preferred way to entity-ize the version?  should it be in global.ent?
<mkde> trappist: there is a ubuntu/gnome.ent that has it in, although yeah, it probably would be better as global.ent
<UberoDocy> hello.
<UberoDocy> can anyone point me on how to compile ubuntu-doc stuff in a single html file instead of generating the multiple html files?
<mkde> the builds do both
<mkde> what doc?
<UberoDocy> faqguide
<UberoDocy> so probably it is already there ... let me check:)
<mkde> that's a breezy document
<UberoDocy> yape...
<UberoDocy> breezy stuff.... 
<mkde> http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html
<UberoDocy> mdke, yape... but I'm compiling localized version.
<mkde> which language?
<UberoDocy> pt
<UberoDocy> yape... don't why but doesn't appear the *all document in build/gnome/faqi386/pt
<mkde> so you want to build html from /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/generic/faqguide/pt?
<UberoDocy> yes.
<UberoDocy> but I was using the source of ubuntu-doc to do it.
<mkde> have you got a copy of our repository?
<mkde> oh right
<mkde> hang on
<UberoDocy> (what do you think on having in help.ubuntu.com the localized versions?) 
<UberoDocy> ok thanks...
<mkde> UberoDocy: we could have them there, but generally locoteams prefer to host them on their own sites
<UberoDocy> mdke, yape, that is the idea:)
<UberoDocy> ok
<UberoDocy> I did this in a crappy way.. changed the Makefile "C" to "pt" added some files in the right place.... 
<UberoDocy> not sure if there is a better way.
<UberoDocy> it generates well the chapters and everything in html.
<mkde> just getting the source for breezy
<UberoDocy> I downloaded the ubuntu-doc-6.2 tar.gz
<trappist> if somebody wants to come up with a good name for the version entity I'll implement it and start hunting down literal version references
<mkde> trappist: just use the ones in ubuntu/libs/gnome.ent?
<mkde> UberoDocy: 6.2 is a dapper package...
<mkde> UberoDocy: if you use the stylesheet at /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/docbook.xsl it should build a single page of html, I think
<UberoDocy> mkde, I'm confused... can you give me a http address? If it was a dapper package wouldn't have translations right?
<mkde> that's right
<mkde> UberoDocy: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-docs/ <-- dapper 6.03 and breezy 5.10
<mkde> UberoDocy: email me your translation and I'll build it for you
<mkde> mdke@ubuntu.com
<UberoDocy> mdke, the breezy translations are on the package....
<UberoDocy> I should learn in any case, for the future... :)
<UberoDocy> mdke, but thanks a lot for your offer.
<mkde> our build system is a lot better now than it was for breezy
<mkde> i'll use our new stylesheets
<UberoDocy> mkde, hhmm... build system of the dapper documentation you mean? 
<UberoDocy> so, I can use breezy stuff and the improved dapper source to make the html?
<mkde> just the dapper stylesheets
<UberoDocy> hhmm... 
<UberoDocy> there should be no problems of retro compatibility then I guess...
<UberoDocy> it's just the style that changes ...
<mkde> download this file: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-html-single-cust.xsl and then run the command "xsltproc --xinclude -o faqguide-all-pt.html ubuntu-html-single-cust.xsl faqguide-pt.xml"
<mkde> then you'll need the css: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-book.css
<mkde> if you put that css in ../../common in relation to your html it will work
<trappist> are .omf files generated or do they need to be brought in line with the new world order of version entities?
<mkde> trappist: the latter
<trappist> k
<mkde> trappist: actually
<mkde> trappist: no entities in those, just correct it manually
<mkde> my bad
<trappist> ok
<UberoDocy> mkde, a big hurray for helpful guys like you :-) Thank you, with these points I should be able to move by myself.
<mkde> UberoDocy: np hope it works
<trappist> mkde: html files in the repo?  like browser-startpage/C/index.html
<trappist> generated or need to be fixed
<mkde> trappist: i fixed that already...
<mkde> but the latter
<trappist> mkde: it's fixed to 6.06 but not to entities - at least not in what I have checked out
<mkde> we can't use entities in html files
<mkde> xml only
<trappist> yeah I just realized that :)
<mkde> trappist: so are you moving them to global.ent, or leaving them in the ubuntu/kubuntu specific files?
<trappist> mkde: makes more sense to me to move them to global.ent
<trappist> seeing as how they're global
<mkde> go for it
<trappist> though the kde.ent entities have kde-specific names like kdistro-rev etc. so I'm leaving those
<trappist> just fixing their values
<UberoDocy> mkde, it worked... just a ubuntu-banner.xsl missing. Now, small icon images are not being included .... where are they?
<mkde> UberoDocy: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/common/
<mkde> trappist: i spose we can do a find/replace to fix the names too
<mkde> kdistro-rev -> distro-rev
<trappist> can do that too
<trappist> the validator's giving me a zillion or so 'entity not defined' errors for entities I haven't touched.  guess I'll fix those too.
<UberoDocy> mkde, I'm happy :-) everything works.
<UberoDocy> see u late guys.
<trappist> hrm.  just sent two gpg-signed messages to the list.  kmail calls one of the signatures bad.  does everybody's show them that way?
* trappist does a relevant experiment
<trappist> ok I thought maybe I'd entered the wrong passphrase and kmail had happily sent out a bad sig, but apparently it doesn't bahave that way.  thank god.
<trappist> if you guys could have a look, I'd be very interested to know whether kmail made a bad signature or is mistakenly calling it bad.
<robotgeek> trappist: patches and more patches. Kmail complains "Message was signed by trappist at gmail.com (Key ID: 0xblahbalh" Warning: The signature is bad.
<robotgeek> the second email comes thru fine
<trappist> well suck.  I wonder how it did that.  it's good news, though.  thanks.
<robotgeek> trappist: if both were invalid, i would not have am issue. heh
<trappist> it tells me it was signed by grasshopper@linuxkungfu.org... maybe you imported my gmail one?
<robotgeek> trappist: kmail does that automatically, i guess. lemme purge ans retry
<mdke> robotgeek, yeah, you can re-add the headers and xincludes
<robotgeek> mdke: i'll do that next time i am messing about
<dsas> they're the same two signatures here, both from grasshopper@linuxkungfo.org
<robotgeek> trappist: it validates one, but doesn't the other. 
<trappist> robotgeek: yeah same here
<trappist> I'm gonna re-send the first one
<trappist> the one in my sent folder is validated
<mdke> robotgeek, great
<jjesse> did the patchs get applied trappist sent?
<trappist> still invalid.
<mdke> jjesse, not yet. That's a lot of patches :)
<trappist> I wonder if mailman is modifying the message
<jjesse> i'll apply the kubuntu one
<mdke> jjesse, there may be more than one for kubuntu
<mdke> trappist, ?
<jjesse> about kubuntu
<trappist> mdke: the gpg signature is invalid on the first email (and the 2nd try of the first email).  I think mailman may be touching the message in a way that breaks the signature.
<mdke> I'm not bothered about the gpg signature... which emails should we be looking at?
<trappist> "[PATCH]  Entities and validation" and "[PATCH]  Entities and validation part 2"
<mdke> ok, so ignoring (retry)?
<jjesse> dang it i don't have my svn password on me :(
<trappist> mdke: yes
<jjesse> about-kubunut needs to be patched 
<mdke> jjesse, we could ask trappist for a single patch and one of us can apply
<trappist> haha.  it would have been so much easier to make a single patch in the first place :)
<jjesse> i thought we asked him earlier tosend different patches per file
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> per doc
<mdke> but this might be an exceptional case ;)
<robotgeek> mdke: for i in *.patch ; do patch -p0 <$i; done
<trappist> and the wiki says per filename, with the patches named accordingly :/
<mdke> trappist, do they all validate?
<trappist> mdke: there are two pre-existing validation errors left
<mdke> which docs?
<trappist> lemme see
<mdke> robotgeek, if all the patches were done from the same directory, that will work I think
<jjesse_meeting> later folks
<mdke> bye
<trappist> kubuntu/userguide/C/userguide.xml and generic/packagingguide/C/appendix.xml
<trappist> mdke: they were
<mdke> ok
<mdke> robotgeek, do you fancy applying them all? if not I'll do it later when I am at my laptop
<trappist> apply the patches and say: svn stat | egrep '^M.+\.xml' | awk '{print $2}' | while read line; do ./validate.sh $line; done
<mdke> then we can fix those validation things later
<robotgeek> mdke: okay, i don't mind
<mdke> trappist, what do you mean in the email by "invalid entity names"?
<trappist> mdke: mixed-case entity names don't validate
<mdke> sure? I've never seen that
<trappist> wiki-RootSudo didn't, but it was fine once I lowercased it in the .ent and the .xml
<mdke> the desktop guide has always validated despite using wiki-RootSudo
<mdke> or maybe I'm mistaken
<mdke> anyhow, dinner
<trappist> enjoy
<LaserJock> any doc-base experts around?
<trappist> LaserJock: ask your question ;)
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to make a .docbase file to register ubuntu-docs with doc base
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure wheither I need to do each doc individually or just the whole /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/html/ directory
<LaserJock> I suppose I could just try it out and see
<trappist> apparently you can use a shell glob
<trappist> for the files field
<robotgeek> trappist: so, apply them with the validation errors?
* robotgeek is scared. takes another look
<trappist> robotgeek: I'm pretty sure I didn't introduce the validation errors... but if you apply them and validate like above you can see what they are.  they don't look at all related to anything I changed.
<robotgeek> trappist: okay, lemme take a look one by one
<robotgeek> svn needs a unrevert command :)
<trappist> heh.
<robotgeek> trappist: about the entities in mixed cases, it does validate with root-Sudo
<trappist> odd, it didn't here
<robotgeek> nvm, i'l lcommit after coffee
<trappist> ok if I change it back it does validate.  maybe that was one of the files that wasn't sourcing global.ent.
<trappist> if you like I'll do one big patch (with that one omitted)
<LaserJock> hmm, can anybody give me a quick abstract of the Desktop Guide?
<robotgeek> trappist: that would me nice
<robotgeek> LaserJock: eating food, moment
<mdke> LaserJock, see ubuntu/desktopguide/C/desktopguide-C.omf
<LaserJock> mdke: is that current?
<mdke> yep
<mdke> hope so
<LaserJock> mdke: I read it and it said it was a Q & A
<LaserJock> mdke: I thought we moved away from that
<mdke> I'll look
<mdke> yeah that's crap
<mdke> we should redo it
<trappist> robotgeek: http://tra.ppi.st/bigun.diff
<robotgeek> trappist: thanks, i'll take a look
<trappist> robotgeek: maybe you could validate generic/packagingguide/C/appendix.xml and kubuntu/userguide/C/userguide.xml before applying, to verify that I didn't introduce the validation errors
<robotgeek> trappist: yes, i am currently unreverting all. btw, thanks for the readline trick. 
<trappist> np
<trappist> unreverting?
<robotgeek> sorry, reverting :)
<trappist> oh.  I just svn revert -R .
* robotgeek notes
<robotgeek> trappist: kubuntu user guide does not validate, btw
<mdke> what is this kubuntu/userguide stuff?
<mdke> sounds like another one to be nuked
<LaserJock> trappist: what are you doing to the packaging guide?
<robotgeek> heh, that is one from breezy i think mdke 
<trappist> LaserJock: nothing that I know of except the same stuff I'm doing to everything else... word nazi stuff, validation stuff and entity-izing versions
<mdke> robotgeek, we'll ask jjesse and then nuke it
<mdke> jjesse_meeting, ^^
<LaserJock> robotgeek: are you applying all of trappist's patches?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: havent applied anything yet, trying to fix validation first
<jjesse> userguide can be nuked
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> robotgeek, ^
<LaserJock> robotgeek: mind if I take care of the packaging guide patches?
<robotgeek> mdke: okay. i'll be at the meeting to get what's happening to the Kubuntu Deskopt Firsthand
<robotgeek> LaserJock: sure, go ahead :)
<mdke> robotgeek, meeting?
<robotgeek> mdke: kubuntu dev meeting
<LaserJock> mdke: I think I almost have doc-base files for ubuntu-docs
<mdke> robotgeek, cool
<mdke> LaserJock, cool
<mdke> @ everyone, cool
<robotgeek> mdke: :)
<robotgeek> wow, they are planning to change the menus again. 
<jjesse> for kubuntu or ubutu :(
<robotgeek> for kubuntu.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<mdke> robotgeek, LaserJock, how is the trappist patching expedition going? any help needed?
<robotgeek> mdke: i'll look at it after the meeting
<mdke> ok, shout if you need anything
<robotgeek> sure 
<LaserJock> mdke: grrr, the doc-base thing has some weirdnesses
<robotgeek> bkjones: cool
* robotgeek sees bkjones 's hostmask as pretty close geographically
<bkjones> :)
<bkjones> NJ
<robotgeek> bkjones: i'm currently in Somerset
<bkjones> ah. I'm at Princeton Univ. 
<bkjones> Used to work on World's fair dr. in somerset. 
<robotgeek> bkjones: yes, seen from hostmask. :)
<jjesse> robotgeek: script?
<robotgeek> jjesse: to switch from Description (Name) to Name (Description)
<jjesse> ah
<robotgeek> i wrote it last time i had make the switch
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I though that is what emacs is for ;-)
<jjesse> i think its just way to late to have discussions like this
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i could use vim macros, but i tht of some fun with python
<robotgeek> jjesse: yes
<trappist> I'm really bothered by the gpg signature breakage on the list.  I sent the message to myself and it comes out fine.
<LaserJock> trappist: LP seems to do it too
<trappist> LP?
<trappist> oh launchpad
<LaserJock> I think. I'm not certain
<LaserJock> I've noticed the same behaviour
<trappist> I emailed mailman@lists.ubuntu.com but I dunno if that actually goes to anybody.
<LaserJock> possibly
<mdke> trappist, jdub does the lists
<trappist> cool
<LaserJock> Burgwork: guess you just have to wait ;-) although I would have thought they would have announced it by now
<Burgwork> LaserJock, I am more concerned about image\
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yeah. Were you around when they decided? I didn't realize they voted on it already until Keybuk told me
<LaserJock> mdke: I don't think the doc-base thing is going to work
<LaserJock> mdke: at least not for dapper
<mdke> LaserJock, ok, no worries! thanks for trying
<LaserJock> mdke: basically all the viewer (dhelp, dwww, and doc-central) look for docs in /usr/share/doc/<packagename>
<LaserJock> mdke: we would need to split up the individual docs into packages
<mdke> whoosh
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm not sure why this is required but it seems to be the case
<mdke> ok, mark the bug as wontfix then, sounds like it is a lot harder than the advantages
<LaserJock> the viewers are quite cool though
<LaserJock> They might be something to look at in the future
<mdke> unless enrico knows a bit more and can help
<LaserJock> dhelp especially is nice
<LaserJock> they are somewhat like yelp, except DE independent
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> they can show man pages etc
<robotgeek> LaserJock: where is this dhelp that you speak of?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: it is a program apt-get it
<robotgeek> awesome
<LaserJock> they just use a browser and in the case of dwww and doc-central, apache
<robotgeek> LaserJock: building yzis for now, will check it out as soon as that is done
<LaserJock> If they could deal with our doc structure I think they would be quite cool
<trappist> dhelp is uninstallable here.  dhelp_parse segfaults in postinst.
<LaserJock> trappist: bummer, what arch?
<trappist> i386
<LaserJock> hmm, odd
<trappist> Building HTML tree .../var/lib/dpkg/info/dhelp.postinst: line 45: 17355 Segmentation fault      /usr/sbin/dhelp_parse -r
<LaserJock> I'm on i386
<trappist> breezy or dapper?
<LaserJock> dapper
<trappist> ah, i'm on breezy
<LaserJock> hmm, that is a problem in general ;-)
<trappist> I'd try it on my dapper box but it's at home and there's an apt-get upgrade process waiting for me to say yes or something to
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> that's why I keep a dapper chroot around
<LaserJock> dwww or doc-central also should work, although they have more deps
<trappist> I used to have that and a dapper vmware image but since I have a full on dapper box now, I figure it's just wasted space
<robotgeek> LaserJock: you know about yzis? it embeds vim in every text editor
<robotgeek> or alteast the keybindings :)
<LaserJock> robotgeek: never heard of it, sounds viral ;-)
<robotgeek> heh.
<LaserJock> I'm still trying to figure out vim to start with
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to use the xml ftplugin
<trappist> ok dwww is cool.
<mdke> Burgwork, ping
<enrico> mdke: need help?
<LaserJock> trappist: yeah, it is. I just can't figure out how to get the Ubuntu docs in there
<mdke> enrico, LaserJock might need some help with the docbase thing, I'll leave it to him to explain
<Burgwork> mdke, pong
<enrico> mdke: ok
<enrico> LaserJock: at your service
<LaserJock> enrico: I made a couple doc-base control files and they work ok, except I can't view them with any viewer
<LaserJock> enrico: basically I've tried dhelp, dwww, and doc-central
<LaserJock> enrico: the problem seems to be that they only want docs in /usr/share/doc/<packagename>
<LaserJock> enrico: where there is a <packagename> for each of our docs
<LaserJock> enrico: but we ship the docs all in /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/
<enrico> right
<enrico> and apache only exports /usr/share/doc
<LaserJock> yeah
<enrico> I guess documents outside /usr/share/doc aren't viewable, unless you make symlinks
<LaserJock> so I can see links to the docs, I just can't access them
<enrico> LaserJock: you can try symlinking from /usr/share/ubuntu-docs into some place in /usr/share/doc
<LaserJock> enrico: hmm, seems a bit hackish. let me see if it works
<trappist> LaserJock: grep DWWW_DOCPATH /usr/share/dwww/functions.sh
<LaserJock> yeah
<trappist> LaserJock: you can set that in /etc/dwww/dwww.conf
<LaserJock> trappist: yeah, but I don't feel like patching dwww 
<trappist> oh
<LaserJock> I mean I can do it locally for sure. I'm just trying to figure out how we can ship it ;-)
<LaserJock> sweet, symlink worked
<LaserJock> now I wonder if I can convince dholbach to do the symlinks
<enrico> LaserJock: I imagine it's easy to convince dholbach: symlinking documentation into /usr/share/doc makes a big lot of sense
<LaserJock> enrico: ok, thanks for the suggestion. I'll talk him into it ;-)
<enrico> LaserJock: you're welcome!
<mdke> i can do the symlinks
<mdke> if it's a good idea
<mdke> LaserJock, actually you can do it too. see debian/links
<LaserJock> mdke: yeah, I just wanted to make sure it was ok
<LaserJock> it is a Main package after all
<mdke> fair enough
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, I'll get it all fixed today
<mdke> ping daniel then :)
<LaserJock> already got his approval ;-)
<mdke> ah cool
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm doing About Ubuntu, Ubuntu Desktop Guide, and Ubuntu Server Guide
<LaserJock> mdke: Is that all that is planned for HTML?
<mdke> we can ship anything html
<LaserJock> I just download the .deb and looked at what HTML is currently shipped
<LaserJock> that shouldn't change should it?
<LaserJock> I guess the Packaging Guide could be shipped as HTML
<jjesse> are you guys packaging the kubuntu docs as well ?
<mdke> LaserJock, you can do the kubuntu docs too? should be easier because they are already under /usr/share/doc
<LaserJock> jjesse: I haven't touched the kubuntu stuff much.
<LaserJock> mdke: I can
<jjesse> who packages those up?  riddell?
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> jjesse, did you not see my new package for kubuntu-docs?
<jjesse> mdke: i haven't been at my desk all day, just got here to be honest
<LaserJock> mdke: no
<Kyral> When is the String Freeze?
<jjesse> check out the dapper schedule, don't remember the link
* Kyral falls down
<jjesse> sorry :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
<LaserJock> jjesse: don't worry, he does that all the time :)
<jjesse> slewed was removed, it is just DapperReleaseSchedule
<mdke> Kyral, but we will hope to make it earlier
<Kyral> *shrug* Justed wanted to know how much time I had to grammer check tthings randomly
<LaserJock> Kyral: not long, get to work!
<LaserJock> ;-)
<mdke> Kyral, 2 weeks maybe
<Kyral> mkay
<Kyral> Maybe I'll make a mockup for a hing about Xen
<LaserJock> mdke: I haven't seen a kubuntu-docs packagage go by on dapper-changes in quite some time
<Kyral> actually I need to go fold laundry...
<mdke> LaserJock, maybe we should get an upload
<LaserJock> mdke: looks like Feb 15th was the last
<LaserJock> mdke: and there are a couple bugs open on it
<LaserJock> mdke: I'll try to get the doc-base thing done an poke Riddell about it
<mdke> bugs on kubuntu-docs?
* mdke goes to look
<mdke> oh those are well old
<LaserJock> hmm, they are. I though one looked new. I was mistaken
<LaserJock> trappist: ping?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-22
<robotgeek> LaserJock: except the packaging guide, i am going to commit trappist's patch
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I can't figure out which patches are for what and which I'm supposed to use :(
<robotgeek> LaserJock: give me a minute
<robotgeek> trappist: committed, thanks
<robotgeek> LaserJock: well, you can apply wget http://tra.ppi.st/bigun.diff 
<robotgeek> and revert everywhere else
<LaserJock> or I can hack his diff ;-)
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yes, that too
<robotgeek> i think that has been my widest patch, wohoo
<robotgeek> now to nuke userguide
<robotgeek> that has been around since hoary days :)
<mhz> lol!!! http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1868
<mgalvin> is anyone looking at the entities patches from trappist?
<mgalvin> never mind looks like they were already applied
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut LaserJock
<Madpilot> hi all
<Burgundavia> greetings Madpilot
<LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
<Madpilot> bleh, Epiphany doesn't close tabs on middle-click like every other tabbed browser does
<Burgundavia> probably because that is broken?
<Burgundavia> too easy to loose the tab
<Burgundavia> epiphany also doesn't focus the location bar on alt-d
<Burgundavia> both are features very few use and are cause problems
<mdke> morning
<robotgeek> hey mdke 
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> all well?
<robotgeek> yup. responding on sounder 
<mdke> heh
<mdke> doc-builders :)
<Madpilot> robotgeek, but don't you know that Ubuntu's doc-makers *never* answer their email? :P
<robotgeek> Madpilot: EU+ doc team response, heh
<mdke> do you guys answer your emails?
<mdke> >_<
* mdke hunts for the doc-builder who doesn't answer emails
<Madpilot> there've been a couple of emails to the list that haven't been answered on-list, not sure if they ever got answered...
<mdke> argh
<mdke> I applied the patch from Andreas yesterday btw
<mdke> I replied but must have forgotten to reply-to-list
<robotgeek> mdke: and they say doc writers don't answer their emails
<mdke> now he is saying that he will email after writing his unofficial doc
<Madpilot> who is this "admin@scientific.dk" chap, and does he always have this much attitude?
<mdke> so essentially we have failed to read his mind, over the intraweb
<robotgeek> no, if he can't take time to read up a page, why is our time such a waste?
<Madpilot> something like that...
* robotgeek refrains from abusing on the sounder list
<mdke> i've replied
<Madpilot> or we're supposed to telepathically *know* what he's capable of writing, and contact him to provide it? :P
<mdke> exactly
<mdke> odd chap
<mdke> damn still no reply from the TB
<rob> hi
* rob braces up
<mdke> hiya
<robotgeek> hey 
<rob> I'm going to do an install tonight, are any screenshots of the installer or whatever needed?
<mdke> hmm. not sure: I think there is not a lot of material on installation
<Madpilot> do we even document the installer anywhere?
<rob> not a lot. I think.
<rob> I guess I'll go from flight 5 from the get go for the best screenshots
<Madpilot> speaking of unanswered emails, anyone else what to tackle some of this: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/34832 ?
<rob> catch you all later.. dinner
<mdke> rob, the theme will probably still change quite a lot, it's best not to do screenshots right away, but make placeholders
<mdke> Madpilot, yeah I'll take a look
<Madpilot> bed... later, all
<robotgeek> oh, i've already fixed those in KDG
<robotgeek> i havent added anything about ndiswrapper as the wifidocs page is linked
<mdke> yes, I think that is a little too detailed
<robotgeek> i havent added the section on keyboard yet, but it looks much easier with skim and stuff
<mdke> robotgeek, did you do the wiki-Nano link in the desktop guide yesterday?
<mdke> oh no, it might have been andreas' patch
<robotgeek> yes mdke, looks like andreas
<Kyral> Morning
<robotgeek> morning Kyral 
<Kyral> damn my font is playing tricks...or my mind hasn't woken up yett..for a split second I saw that as "incoming Kyral"
<robotgeek> Kyral: same thing
<Kamping_Kaiser> <grin>
<mdke> robotgeek, actually, wasn't him
<robotgeek> morning Kamping_Kaiser 
<mdke> robotgeek, for some reason the entity was missing a & and a ;, any idea if there may be more like that?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi robotgeek
<robotgeek> mdke: there were two patches he sent it?
<mdke> robotgeek, not in his patches
<mdke> it was like that already
* robotgeek looks to see if he committed something 
<robotgeek> mdke: you mean something without entities?
<mdke> robotgeek, it said url="wiki-Nano"
<mdke> i've fixed it, I just wanna know if it is likely that there are more
<robotgeek> not sure
<mdke> damn
<robotgeek> ulink doesn't throw an error?
<mdke> no, cos it might be the right address
<robotgeek> lemme grep through all the ulinks
<robotgeek> okay, maybe after coffee :)
<mdke> hehe
<mdke> more importantly, is it possible that any other entities are like that?
<mdke> from elsewhere in rocco's patches
<robotgeek> mdke: it wasn't rocco's patch, it did not touch udg i think
<mdke> ah good
<mdke> oh no, there was some discussion about lowercase entities
<robotgeek> mdke: nope, look at r 2518
<robotgeek> it was wiki-Nano when you committed it
* robotgeek thanks gmail's search
<mdke> ok, so my bad
<mdke> sorry
<robotgeek> mdke: no problem, i will try and write a script which looks for these entities
<mdke> robotgeek, sorry to have put you to the trouble of searching that
<robotgeek> mdke: no problem, was pretty easy to find
<robotgeek> nano is mentioned only 4 times after i joined the docteam :)
<mgalvin> is there are reason why <email/>'s are commented out in the authors files?
<robotgeek> maybe spam protection for us :)
<mgalvin> hmm, because i would prefer to use the author entities but that means email addresses will not show up
<mgalvin> i don't have an problem with that...
<mgalvin> the release notes just have email addresses in them as it is now
<robotgeek> i am not sure, i just guessed
<trappist> I gave up on protecting my email address
<mgalvin> gmail protects me :)
<mgalvin> usually :-/
<robotgeek> yo trappist 
<trappist> at least on my website my email address is made of html entities.  that's probably saved me from a spam or two, but it's all over google, so it doesn't really matter
<trappist> heya robotgeek 
<mgalvin> i am curious about who commented them *all* out in the first place
<trappist> mgalvin: svn blame?
<robotgeek> i commented out mine, cause the one i copied from commented his :)
<trappist>   1363    jeffsch     <!-- <email>matt.t.galvin@gmail.com</email> -->
<trappist> but then it looks like he did the whole file
<mgalvin> yea, that is b/c he commited it for me a while ago
<mgalvin> hmm, was so long ago, i don't remeber if that was how i added it
<mgalvin> meh
<mgalvin> does anyone object to uncommenting them so they show up correctly in the author lists (where the ent's are used)?
<trappist> it looks like most of the email lines are 'blamed' on sean or sean wheller
<robotgeek> i am not sure, mgalvin . maybe ask mdke 
<mgalvin> hehe, we can just blame sean for everything :)
<mgalvin> yea, i will email the list
<jjesse> in my author entries i've followed what the privious author did
<LaserJock> I was wondering the other day how to best deal with contributors vs. team members
<LaserJock> as far as authorship
<LaserJock> so far I've just been doing it like http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ln-Credits-And-License.html
<mdke> i say that the author should be the team, and contributors arranged as LaserJock has done.
<mgalvin> +1
<robotgeek> +1
<LaserJock> ok, so did I do it right? or do I need to add the doc team somewhere?
<mdke> you have it right
<mdke> lots of docs don't though
* robotgeek galres at his
<mdke> compare http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html with http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/release-notes/C/
<robotgeek> i see
<robotgeek> mdke: somehow, the css for the kdg has been missed (the clickability is lost)
<mdke> right, hang on
<trappist> looks like my change got reverted
<trappist> line 55 of kubuntu/libs/kde-default.css if that's the css file
<mdke> i've decided to use a different css file
<mdke> forgot your change, sorry
<trappist> you remember what it was, or you want I should send another patch?
<mdke> got it
<mdke> robotgeek, reload the page, is that better?
<mdke> hmm, no
<mdke> trappist, isn't this right? http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/common/kubuntu-default.css
<trappist> there's nothing relevant in there
<robotgeek> better mdke , but still not able to click APT on main page
<mdke> trappist, i thought it was the padding-left bit
<trappist> I don't see any padding in that file... just a sec...
<trappist> oh you meant kde-default.css :)
<mdke> no, kubuntu-default.css
<mdke> at the bottom
<trappist> kubuntu-default.css only has two blocks, .BannerBottomLeft and .BannerBottomRight
<trappist> at least the one in the link you pasted
<mdke> huh?
<trappist> oh nm I just refreshed, there it is...
<trappist> mdke: both files are linked, and I guess the other one is taking precedence.
<trappist> maybe the contents of kubuntu-default.css should just be added to kde-default.css to avoid confusion, and get rid of kubuntu-default.css?
<mdke> we can't do that
<mdke> because kde-default.css is shipped with kde
<trappist> ah.
<mdke> so we need to leave it unchanged for the distro docs
<mdke> but the second stylesheet should take precedence, that's what css is all about, I thought
<trappist> try adding !important to the padding-left: 1em;
<mdke> it works for the Banner thing
<trappist> or add padding-top: 0; padding-bottom: 0; to it
<mdke> ok
<trappist> I think padding-left is just reinforcing padding, and not eliminating padding in other directions
<mdke> oh good point
<mdke> doh
<mdke> thanks trappist 
<trappist> works?
<robotgeek> yup
<trappist> mdke: while we're in there, about the other parts of that file... small point... adding units to values of 0 is unnecessary and therefore not recommended, just to save the extra coupla bytes of bandwith (for us and the users)
<mdke> trappist, which file?
<trappist> kubuntu-default.css
<mdke> oh i see, the "px"?
<trappist> yeah
<mdke> feel free to eradicate that
<trappist> ok
<mdke> oh no you don't have commit access yet, I'll do it
<mdke> let's get commit access for trappist, hey everyone
<trappist> :)
<mdke> trappist, due to a shocking decision made a while back, you need to become an ubuntu member first
<mdke> see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<trappist> ubuntu-something member, or...
<trappist> ah, I see
<trappist> well I'll add some stuff to my wiki page and see if I can get myself memberized
<robotgeek> trappist: i'll +1
<trappist> thanks
<mdke> we all will :)
<trappist> thanks, you guys rock :)
<jjesse> when is the next meeting to vote for trappist?
<LaserJock> jjesse: ?
<jjesse> the next meeting to vote for trappist as a member so he can get commit acces :)
<LaserJock> jjesse: fridge.ubuntu.com should have the answer
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see any CC meetings scheduled
<LaserJock> but I do see a Doc Team meeting
<robotgeek_away> i can't make it to the meeting, sorry
<LaserJock> robotgeek_away: doh, and I was adding a ton of items to the agenda ;-)
<robotgeek_away> saw that too
<robotgeek_away> later
<trappist> is this us? -> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/iptables/+bug/25972
<jjesse> not that i am aweare of
* trappist checks out the iptables package
<trappist> yeah it's there
<LaserJock> that is an upstream issue I would think
<trappist> upstream from debian possible, but it's package specific.  only the titles of the docs are wrong.  the docs are for 2.4 and later, and the docs themselves say so.
<LaserJock> trappist: right, but the docs are probably shipped with the iptables package
<trappist> right, but the docs are correct :)  it's just the titles (in the package) that are wrong.
<LaserJock> hmm, iptables is a Main package :(
<trappist> why the :( ?
<LaserJock> cause if it was Universe I could upload a fix ;-)
<trappist> oh :)
<trappist> I attached a patch to the bug report
<LaserJock> hmm, I could make a debdiff and see if my core-dev friends can upload it
<trappist> ok how does one make a debdiff.  I haven't been able to figure that out.
<LaserJock> you create a new source packages and use debdiff like you would diff
<trappist> oh so it's not run against built packages
<LaserJock> well you can then use patch on the current package
<trappist> so if I hadn't already deleted what I'd done I could have said debdiff instead of diff
<LaserJock> yeah, but you would need to bump the version and add a changelog entry
<trappist> gotcha.
<LaserJock> I'll show you
<LaserJock> trappist: check out http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/iptables_1.3.3-2ubuntu4.debdiff
<trappist> so that confirms, I could have just said debdiff (if I'd done the changelog stuff)
<trappist> the patch looks difficult to apply, though, being in /tmp/blahblah/...
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter
<trappist> I guess that's some debdiff smartness
<trappist> so am I doing my time zone math right?  do we have a meeting in half an hour?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> btw, to apply my debdiff I just did  "patch -p3 < iptables_1.3.3-2ubuntu4.debdiff"
<LaserJock> from the directory with the source package
<trappist> oh, -p3 to get rid of the /tmp part of the path.  by difficult to apply I meant I can't use -p0 and I have a hard time figuring out what p level to use
<LaserJock> trappist: the reason it has the /tmp/ stuff is it actually unpacks both source packages and does some diff magic
<LaserJock> trappist: the secret to -p is to guess at the number and then mess around with it until the patch applies cleanly ;-)
<trappist> yeah :)
<LaserJock> after a while you start to see how many you need to strip off
<LaserJock> anybody going to be around for the meeting?
<Kyral> Meeting?
<LaserJock> Kyral: doc team meeting in ~ 10 min
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral wonders if he should stick his head in for it
<LaserJock> Kyral: you busy today?
<Kyral> LaserJock, no...I just started gaming and lost rack of time lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: it is a  Hug Day today
<Kyral> I know I know!
<Kyral> I meant to do so much work...but then I started playing Mega Man Zero 2 lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+subscribedbugs ;-)
<Kyral> LaserJock, I haven't checked my email ALL week
<Kyral> I'm scared to see how much I have to download when I get back to school
<LaserJock> Kyral: I haven't emailed anybody I dont' think. If you have time and need something to do, we subscribed all the bugs to the motuscience LP team so all you have to do is check out that url
<LaserJock> Kyral: and start fixing ;-)
<mdke> mgalvin, ping?
<mgalvin> mdke: pong
<mdke> mgalvin, hiya. so are we gonna do author=docteam and contributors=individuals in releasenotes? maybe it would be a decent meeting item
<mgalvin> mdke: hey, i think we should, it seems to be the most logical way of dealing with it and we should also do it to keep the docs in a consistent format
<mdke> great.
<LaserJock> mdke: I just threw some agenda items in because it was blank. Hope that is ok
<mgalvin> we can certainly make it a meeting item if you feel more discussion is needed, or to just make sure everyone know to use this method
<mdke> i think we should
<mdke> LaserJock, can we scrap the dapper+1 item?
<LaserJock> mdke: sure, I don't care
<mgalvin> ok, sounds good to me
<LaserJock> mdke: it just seems like our meetings fizzle out sometimes so I tried to stimulate some discussion ;-)
<mdke> LaserJock, yeah I appreciate it. all the agenda items are great, but i think it's early to talk about dapper+1
<mdke> so, meeting quickly?
<jjesse> is there a meeting today?
<jjesse> or was there a meeting?
<jjesse> sorry was busy tat work
<mdke> jjesse, just started
<mdke> LaserJock, what username?
<LaserJock> umm, I guess laserjock
<mdke> ok
<LaserJock> that is what i use for the MOTU server so I'll keep them consistent ;-)
<mdke> afk
<qgil> hi Burgwork & co. Question: is it possible to fill a bug / feature request against a piece of Ubuntu documentation?
<LaserJock> qgil: is that shipped documentation?
<qgil> help.ubuntu.com pages LaserJock
<LaserJock> qgil: I'd email the ubuntu-docs email list
<qgil> LaserJock: ok, although the paradox is precisely that I want to suggest the possibility to fill bugs in order to avoid the eed of subscribing to a mailing list...  ;)
<LaserJock> qgil: well, it is possible to file bugs on the shipped documentation (source package is ubuntu-docs) but you can't for other docs
<LaserJock> qgil: the reason you have to subscribe, I think, is that otherwise we get tons of spam if it is open to everybody
<qgil> LaserJock: this is why filing bugs is an intermediate way to avoid spam and needing to subscribe to a lst just to comment a bug or make a suggestion 
<LaserJock> qgil: well, you can always ask here, or send us email individually and we can forward it to the list
<qgil> LaserJock: it seems another option is to send a rant or something to sounder list or somewhere in ubuntuforum, this is what some people are doing - which is a waste of energies  :)
<LaserJock> qgil: yes for sure
<LaserJock> qgil: you could also use the wiki I suppose
<qgil> LaserJock: could you please forward this piece of log to the list? If only to seed a possible idea...
<qgil> and well, the specifi problem that brought me that ideas was this page:
<qgil> http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/ch01.html#id2473365
<qgil> It recommends Nero to burn iso from Windows
<qgil> but a) Nero is not always present in Windows systems by default
<qgil> b) Sometimes the software included in Windows out of the box won't let you burn an iso at all unless you register/pay something
<qgil> and c) there are gpl tools such as http://www.burnatonce.com/ extremely easy to download and use - we should probably recommend free software in windows as well
<qgil> that's it, this was an example of bug I would fill somewhere in Launchpad
<LaserJock> qgil: ok, I can forward that to the list if you want but let me discuss this with you for a sec
<qgil> of course! I came here to discuss  :)
<LaserJock> qgil: first off those are legitimate concerns. I have never owned or installed Nero myself
<LaserJock> qgil: but I believe that Nero has been taken out of the present guide for those reasons
<qgil> (nor me, I just bought a new laptop today and I'm in the process of getting Ubuntu Dapper flight 5, hat's why I realized this)
<LaserJock> qgil: I think this might have already been addressed on the list 
<Burgwork> BurningISO talks about a free software solution for burning ISOs on XP
<LaserJock> the ubuntu.com download page point to wiki.ubuntu.com/BurningIsoHowto
<qgil> Burgwork, LaserJock , help.ubuntu.com is the primary resource for help , this is where I thought of going when I had a problem
<LaserJock> qgil: help.ubuntu.com has the documentation that was shipped with Breezy
<qgil> the wiki page has the right content, good - then oly the help page needs update
<Burgwork> qgil, yes. help.u.c should be the primary place. We are currently working on a plan to move the wiki page there
<Burgwork> wiki help, that is
<qgil> (and now you see we are in the typical discussion of a bug resolution process)  ;)
<LaserJock> qgil: doc.ubuntu.com contains what we are working on for Dapper. The dapper doc does not reference Nero
<qgil> ok, good to know - this would be a wontfix then  ;)
<LaserJock> qgil: no, it would be a "Fix on the Way"
<qgil> agreed
<LaserJock> qgil: anyway, though. If you don't want to subscribe to the list you can always come here or email one of us directly.
<qgil> mmm yes, I can, because I'm more or less confident with you but other people finding other bugs/improvements might not do that
<qgil> anyway, don't want to discuss this, it was just an idea
<LaserJock> qgil: btw, you could have reported a bug on that one, because those are the docs that are shipped in the ubuntu-docs package
<qgil> I looked at help.* and the contact us page if there was a way to do it, but I didn't find the info, this could be added on these pages
<LaserJock> qgil: to be honest, I think the mailing list and IRC are much easier for people to use then Malone
<qgil> ok, I will come here if I find more of these
<qgil> thank you for the quick answer on a Friday night  :)
<LaserJock> qgil: you can still send an email the list I think, but it will have to be let through by one of the moderators
<LaserJock> so it might take a bit longer
<robotgeek> qgil: just subscribe and email the list so that people not on irc may also share
<LaserJock> robotgeek: the point is that he didn't want to subscribe to the list just to send like one email
<LaserJock> I think anyway
<qgil> robotgeek: I know subscribing would be the best, in fact I was subscribed to the ubuntu-doc. The problem is that I (like most of us can't process more mail
<qgil> too may projects, man  :)
<qgil> many
<robotgeek> qgil: ah, okay. i just subscribe to many, but read them online
<robotgeek> so i can send easily :)
<robotgeek> without getting all the emails
<qgil> I't about time readng, no matter if online or craved in stone  :)
<LaserJock> qgil: so could you email the list and perhaps suggest that we have a clear statement on help.ubuntu.com for people who don't necessarily want to subscribe?
<robotgeek> heh
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah ;-)
<qgil> LaserJock: the risk here is that I tell you 'yes, of course' now and I put it in my ToDo list of things you do in 5 mins...
<LaserJock> qgil: ok, want me to do it then?
<qgil> LaserJock: I was asking you to forward the piece of log please (that was when the piece was shorter though)  :)  So yes, please do and thanks again
<LaserJock> qgil: do you want me to talk about the ISO thing? or are you satisfied?
<qgil> ((In the meantime I have an ongoing Dapper installation and now I need to see how to make WXGA work at 1280x800))
<qgil> I'm satisfied with the iso thing, of course
<qgil> a search engine in doc.ubuntu.com would be useful  :)
<LaserJock> I agree
<Burgwork> actually, we don't want a search engine in doc, because it is our playpen
<Burgwork> we should check to make certain robots.txt is not indexing it
<Burgwork> mdke, ^
<LaserJock> Burgwork: but on help.ubuntu.com?
<Burgwork> yes, help should be indexed
<LaserJock> k, makes sense that doc. wouldn't
<qgil> alright, thanks a lot and happy writing  :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-23
<mdke> mm?
<mdke> a link in the header to malone might work for what qgil was talking about
<Burgwork> mdke, I was concerned about having doc.ubuntu.com being indexed and people linking to it
<mdke> Burgwork, i dunno. having it indexed is an advantage from the point of view of people finding it and learning to contribute. it depends on whether there is sufficient clarity about what the site is
<Burgwork> the name doesn't lend itself to that
<mdke> no, the name doesn't
<mdke> it would have to be done in the header
<Burgwork> what about something like scratchpad.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> I wonder if something like a guestbook type wiki page on doc. for feedback would be good
<LaserJock> where people can add notes
<Burgwork> <dig>mediawiki has the ability for anon to add to talk pages, but not edit the main pages</dig>
<LaserJock> yeah, that sure would be nice
<LaserJock> that would be ideal for when move the wiki, I think
<LaserJock> when we move, I mean
<mdke> docteam.ubuntu.com
<Burgwork> sure, that works great
<LaserJock> yeah, I like that
<mdke> as for feedback, i don't think we should add anything to help.ubuntu.com
<mdke> each doc should have a link to the bugtracker
<mdke> but for doc.ubuntu.com, a link in the header bar would be nice
<Burgwork> sure, that works
<mdke> docs already have links to the bugtracker in the "feedback" section, tbh, i don't think we should go any further for help.u.c
* mdke bed
<LaserJock> trappist: ping?
<Burgundavia> salut robitaille
<robitaille> Hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> how much css do you know?
<Kyral> CSS humwha?
<robotgeek> hey all
<robitaille> Burgundavia: have been known to do the odd web page using css.
<Madpilot> hi all
<Burgundavia> ah Madpilot, you are the person I am looking for
<Burgundavia> I am beating my head against css in moin
<Madpilot> am I?
<Madpilot> sounds like fun
<Madpilot> got a link?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop
<Burgundavia> can you make the text top justify in those tables?
<Madpilot> let me look at it after I eat
<Burgundavia> bah, eating :)
<Burgundavia> hmm, javascript is simply not working in epiphany right now
<Burgundavia> nor is search on the location bar. Wonder if they are related
<robotgeek> i just caught the log of the meeting. looks like a fun meeting
<LaserJock> robotgeek: it was
<robotgeek> cool
<robotgeek> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey!
<jsgotangco> long time no chat (i've been away)
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: how is going? 
<robotgeek> last time i spoke to you, you asked me about a sanskrit name
<jsgotangco> pretty good just catching up with work
* robotgeek looks for stuff to fix in KDG
<jsgotangco> i've been catching up on emails but barely
<jsgotangco> next week would be saner
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: cool
<jsgotangco> so are we extending?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: was it dhelp you were talking about last week
<robotgeek> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-03-17.html is meeting log
<robotgeek> looks like we have +2 weeks
<Madpilot> jsgotangco, you're one of our mailing list admins, right?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> something got stuck?
<Madpilot> jsgotangco, just wanted to confirm that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact - the bit I added about non-subscribers sending to the list - was actually accurate
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<LaserJock> robotgeek: dhelp, although it doesn't work with the Ubuntu docs. only dwww and doc-central
* robotgeek uninstalls
<jsgotangco> is anyone using ekiga here?
<Burgundavia> nope, but I was forced to use skype this morning
<robotgeek> work on ppc?
<Burgundavia> their UI is total bong
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: in the default install
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: i'm kubuntu
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> default ubuntu install, so yes
<jsgotangco> i want to try my installation
<jsgotangco> just in case jerome@ekiga.net
<robotgeek> lemme install :)
<Burgundavia> bugger
<Burgundavia> it gave me burgercorey@ekiga.net, not coreyburger@ekiga.net
<jsgotangco> can i try it on you?
<Burgundavia> sure, let me setup ekiga
<jsgotangco> i registered pretty early so i got a neat name
<Burgundavia> call me
<Burgundavia> my sound is borked however
<jsgotangco> it doesnt seem to connect
<Burgundavia> says you are offline
* robotgeek is logging in
<jsgotangco> it says you're online
<jsgotangco> hemmmmm
<jsgotangco> wonder if i have to set anything to my router
<Burgundavia> we are connected, did you just hear me?
<Burgundavia> my sound card is borked right now
<jsgotangco> i didnt hear anything
<Burgundavia> bloody hell, this install is so borked. It is actually a flight3 install
<Burgundavia> I was so busy with the book I didn't get a chance to ever test flight4
<jsgotangco> i'll check my settings first
<jsgotangco> hmm why does it say im offline
<Burgundavia> I am still connected to you
<Burgundavia> ok, ekiga's UI is still bong
<Burgundavia> audio transmission status???
<Burgundavia> how about "mute sound"
<jsgotangco> i just turned it off
<Burgundavia> and where is my hangup button?
<jsgotangco> did you receive a message?
<jsgotangco> ekk timeout
<jsgotangco> wtf
<jsgotangco> skype just works
<Burgundavia> how does skype do it?
<Burgundavia> I had to turn on upnp on my router
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: ping 
<jsgotangco> i didnt do anything at all
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: I am connected to you
<Burgundavia> I really love the little lego brick button that changes the UI
<Burgundavia> that is the best bong hit of this whole application
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: can yo uhear me tho?
<Madpilot> you figure the devs smoked up before working on this thing, Burgundavia? :P
<jsgotangco> robotgeek: what's your ekiga account
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: venkatraghavan@ekiga.net
<robotgeek> it says yo uare offline
<jsgotangco> this is bong
<jsgotangco> i could log in but people dont see me
<robotgeek> it did connecy
<Burgundavia> I got through to jsgotangco and robotgeek
<robotgeek> yeah, but i don't think i'm able to speak
<Burgundavia> I have a nasty bug that prevents all sound from being played, so I could test that
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: can you hear me?
<jsgotangco> nope
<jsgotangco> i always get a timeout
<jsgotangco> crap
<robotgeek> lemme test my sound, beb
<robotgeek> brb
<jsgotangco> how will i konw if i am online?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: it says you are offline, maybe problem is at my end
<jsgotangco> on my part it says Registration failed: Timeout
<robotgeek> ah, okay. 
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: how come you are able to call me, but i am not able to call you
<jsgotangco> not sure if my router needs some configuring, im sure it should allow me
<Burgundavia> hmm, that is sad. There has been no discussions of the user interface for several months
<Burgundavia> guess they were working on the backend
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: did you atleast get my text messages?
<jsgotangco> it should say on status if im offline or not
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: send another one, I am not certain
* jsgotangco tries lookback
<jsgotangco> loopback
<jsgotangco> try calling to 500@ekiga.net
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: it connects
<jsgotangco> that's the loopback
* robotgeek tries to read FAQ
<jsgotangco> i think i know my issue
<jsgotangco> what a pain to make this work
<jsgotangco> you should not have "symmetric NAT"
<jsgotangco> instead, you should have cone or port restricted
<robotgeek> same thing, i guess
<jsgotangco> im just going to sleep first
<jsgotangco> ciao
<robotgeek> later
<Burgundavia> hmm, the moin install on the website supports html and the wiki doesn't
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: ping
<Madpilot> hmmm?
<Burgundavia> I am thinking about the main ubuntu page
<Madpilot> and?
<Burgundavia> it challenging to edit the main page with out knowing what it is going to look at
<Madpilot> huh? was that English? :P
<Burgundavia> I am watching Indiana Jones. One is not required to speak good english while watching an action flick
<Madpilot> heh
<robitaille> I watched the Truman Show tonight...my english doesn't seem to have improved or worsen because of it...
<robotgeek> writing dtd also :)
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> hi mdke 
<mdke> Burgundavia, you can create a page on the website to test.
<mdke> start it with "#acl All:"
<mdke> i think that should make it invisible to all but those on the master thing
<Burgundavia> mdke: hmm, ok
<Burgundavia> I will email henrik tomorrow and confirm that
<mdke> or ask him to put the HTML parser on the normal wiki :) 
<Burgundavia> that too
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, "our machine page" - you still watching bad movies while you type?
<Burgundavia> huh? where did I post that?
<Madpilot> your email just now about revamping the main website
<Madpilot> I think you meant "main page", but I'm not at all sure :P
<Burgundavia> probably
<Madpilot> heh
<Burgundavia> I pushed around words most of the day for our Enterprise Services presentation. I am not surprised I am making mistakes now
<robotgeek> i'm trying to hack a status page with "support" for subsections and stuff
<robotgeek> looks like i need to modify the xsl
<Burgundavia> robotgeek: for the actual in-svn docs?
<robotgeek> Burgundavia: the current xsl used to make the xml removes all support for distinguishing between chapters, sections and subsections
<Burgundavia> hmm, sure that makes sense, but my brain doesn't want to compute ti right now
<robotgeek> okay, i am going to bed. 
<robotgeek> i'll take a look at this, seems doable even to me
<Burgundavia> hmm, interesting
<Burgundavia> if you google for $distro + laptop, nobody but linspire has got a page about how great $distro is on a laptop
<Madpilot> ???
<Burgundavia> both fedora and ubuntu have their forums listed first
<dsas> is the html for help.ubuntu.com stored in svn?
<Madpilot> Oh, that's interesting - in our SVN - specifically teamstuff/artwork - the Ubuntu circle logo is quite different from the current one... odd
<Burgundavia> how so?
<Madpilot> compare teamstuff/artwork/ubuntu.svg to one of the current logos from the website - the outer circles are much smaller and the three-part main circle is much larger in proportion
<Burgundavia> can you find a newer copy and nuke the copy in our repos?
<Madpilot> sure
<Madpilot> left-hand logo is from our SVN, right is from wiki artwork page: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/two-logos.png
<Madpilot> does that artwork stuff actually get used at all?
<Madpilot> the various docs have their own image directories
<Madpilot> is there an SVN command to display when something was first added to the repo?
<Madpilot> nevermind, 'svn log' works
<ompaul> In  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCompileHowto there is a suggestion of this at the top of the page sudo -s then the fakeroot stuff is explored any ideas on which way to run with this?
<LaserJock> hi all
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> how's it going highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: doin' ok
<highvoltage> you?
<LaserJock> busy, but ok I think
<highvoltage> heh, that sounds familiar. i don't have time to think about 'how i am' :)
<LaserJock> lol, I know the feeling
<LaserJock> hi mdke!
<LaserJock> hi manicka 
<manicka> hi
<LaserJock> hi trappist 
<trappist> heya LaserJock 
<LaserJock> trappist: did you see that the iptables bug was closed?
<trappist> I didn't.  cool :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-24
<LaserJock> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut LaserJock
<Madpilot> busy place today :P
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> well, I didn't get up until 6pm...
<Madpilot> lazy today, Burgundavia?
* robotgeek stays away from terminal
<Burgundavia> indeed
<LaserJock> away from terminal?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: had quite a bit to drink, don't want to commit anything accidentally :)
<LaserJock> lol
<Madpilot> drink + command line = not a good thing :P
<LaserJock> darn, I don't drink. Does that mean I have to work all the time?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i have not done anything stupid till now when i have had something to drink. i just don't want to start. 
<Madpilot> robotgeek, good plan :)
* Burgundavia whips LaserJock to work
<robotgeek> i will probably see if i can write a xslt for the status reports
<LaserJock> I'm working, I'm working
<LaserJock> I got status tags all in on the packaging guide and added the stuff to the Makefile today 
<robotgeek> trappist: ping
<robotgeek> trappist: http://www.caliban.org/bash/ (look for pattern-list) to ignore .svn
<Burgundavia> salut robitaille
<Burgundavia> hmm, my flight 5 burn didn't work. Maybe it is because I am using a blank, pre-printed DiscoverStation cd from work
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, you plundering work again?
<Burgundavia> just one cd
<Burgundavia> I cannot seem to find my cd thing. I think I took it to C's, but she said she doesn't have it
<Madpilot> I've got almost 100 blank CD-Rs here, if you're that hard up for blanks...
<Burgundavia> mostly I haven't gotten around to getting more
<Burgundavia> grumble
<Burgundavia> scorched3d just hung my system
<Burgundavia> I blame X
<Burgundavia> ok, freeciv is painful to play after civ3
<Burgundavia> the UI sucks
<Burgundavia> and the grpahics suck
<Burgundavia> while I am in a rant mood, the new theme reminds me of diarreha
<Madpilot> what a lovely image
<Madpilot> I assume you mean the Dapper orange/brown theme?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> light brown
<Madpilot> Flight5 was still orange - there's a new theme post-flight5, right?
<Burgundavia> it is orange fading towards light brown
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6078/myothercomprunsunixcausitskewl.png
<Burgundavia> lol
<Burgundavia> wow, I love it when OSS games copy old games, bad UI and all
<Burgundavia> at least Freeciv created their bad UI all by themselves
<Burgundavia> Widelands just copied the UI and graphics from Settlers
<mdke> i just started getting lots of email bounces from the list
<mdke> anyone know the password?
<Madpilot> jerome is our mail admin, isn't he?
<Burgundavia> currently, yes
<mdke> i think he's added me, but I'm not on the list, nor do I know the password
<Burgundavia> he might have only added you as a moderator
<mdke> yes
<mdke> weird that the list is setup to send bounce emails all the time
<Burgundavia> geez, bugs are being filed like made in LP
<Burgundavia> in 1 hr, there are have been at least 9 bugs filed
<Burgundavia> there is pretty much one bug being filed every ten minutes
<Madpilot> is this good or bad?
<Burgundavia> means there are a lot of people using Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> grumble
<Burgundavia> more games crashing my X
<Madpilot> Gnome Mines never crashes :P
<Burgundavia> full screen apps do
<Madpilot> in Dapper?
<Burgundavia> likely a bug in upgrading
<Burgundavia> plus games with change my resolution erk me
<Burgundavia> which change, I should say
<Burgundavia> hmm, should a team admin really be allowed to add just about anybody to a team in LP?
<Madpilot> what, without asking the other person first?
<Madpilot> I know it can be done, I found myself added to the new IRC Operator's team just recently :P
<Burgundavia> I just subscribed you to the -ca team
<Burgundavia> did you get an email about that?
<Madpilot> everyone is subscribing me to everything 
<Kaiser_Away> lol
<Madpilot> I did get that email, actually
<mdke> that is odd, I thought the person had to apply themselves
<Madpilot> apparently not
<Burgundavia> so did I 
<Kaiser_Away> to a list? nah, mailman lets you sub people without telling them
<Burgundavia> it should say "X has invited to Y team. Click on this link to subscribe"
<Burgundavia> no Launchpad teams
<dsas> Burgundavia: Why? It's quicker this way, plus the person can easily unsubscribe right?
<Burgundavia> dsas: yes, but there is a potential for abuse
<dsas> I'd guess the LP admins would be pretty quick to clamp down on that though
<Burgundavia> why not be proactive?
<Madpilot> create the "Ubuntu Spam Team", sign the whole of LP up, and fire off all those Viagra emails before you get caught... :P
<Burgundavia> you could show "invited members"
<dsas> Madpilot: surely there's stuff in place to prevent that kind of abuse though.
<Madpilot> dsas, I'd hope so!
<Burgundavia> I don't think so
<Burgundavia> also, you cannot delete someone from a team, only deactive them
<mdke> odd
<Burgundavia> bloody hell
* Burgundavia beats up LP
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: the GDM theme changer is going to need a screenshot for Breezy and earlier and another fro dapper
<Madpilot> it's changing drastically for Dapper?
<Burgundavia> yes
* Burgundavia goes to add it to the wikitodo/dapper list
<Burgundavia> I love the AP picture CNN and BBC are using for the voting in Belarus. It is a this pretty 20-ish women wearing red
<Madpilot> night all
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> you haven't been sleeping :/
<Burgundavia> me?
<mdke> jsgotangco, hi. is it ok if I turn off these bounce emails?
<mdke> one per day about pending requests is enough, right?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> done, thanks
<mdke> jsgotangco, what's the policy for moderation? discard spam, reject off-topic, accept on-topic?
<jsgotangco> we rarely get off-topic
<jsgotangco> usually discard spam
<mdke> there is an off-topic now
<jsgotangco> hmm that's a rarity
<jsgotangco> its usually cross-post
<mdke> i'd reject that, with an appropriate message
<jsgotangco> most of spam we get are from east asian domains
<mdke> it's a bit problematic to accept on-topic stuff because the sender might not read the list and won't see the answer
<jsgotangco> mdke: why change a TB decision?
<mdke> what decision?
<Burgundavia> mdke: the time decision
<mdke> afaics they just slid all the freezes back. corey posted that they wanted feedback from us on the date of the freeze, we gave it.
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: they made the dicision without really talking to us
<jsgotangco> the new doc string freeze is may 4
<mdke> i don't think they considered the doc freeze specifically
<Burgundavia> they didn't listen to me when I told them we didn't need that much time
<jsgotangco> mdke's email indicated may 6?
<jsgotangco> maybe you mean april 6?
<mdke> yes, corrected
<Burgundavia> how do I comment out a large section in moin?
<jsgotangco> afaic be it april 6 will be a self imposed freeze and we don't have to be collegial about it
<mdke> what does collegial mean?
<mdke> Burgundavia, each line, I think.
<Burgundavia> ugh
<mdke> or save it locally and delete it on the wiki
<Burgundavia> that is doable. I have also asked in #moin
<mdke> good idea, maybe there is a way
<jsgotangco> mdke: imo, if the group is given until may 4, let the writers utilize the extra time if they want to
<jsgotangco> if a manuscript is done earlier, so much the better then move it to rosetta
* jsgotangco believes this doesn't have to be sweeping
<mdke> jsgotangco, no offence, but the group was unanimously against that at the meeting
<jsgotangco> mdke: its just my opinion
* mdke nods
* jsgotangco hasn't done anything much anyhow, if majority wants an early freeze, so be it
<Burgundavia> I went for the third way, leave a giant note on teh page about the table being broken
<mdke> heh
<Burgundavia> it is only on live.gnome, so it matters less
<Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/EducationSuite 
<Burgundavia> if anybody wants to fix it
<jsgotangco> just don't complain if we decided to go gung-ho for edubuntu though :)
<mdke> sure, no one has suggested the freeze will apply to edubuntu
<mdke> last cycle, it didn't even apply to kubuntu, now though kubuntu-docs is going to be translated, so the freeze applies
<Burgundavia> each release we pull more and more into our embrace *maniacal laughter*
<Burgundavia> sorry, it is 4am here. I should sleep now
<Burgundavia> good night all
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: yeah one day, we'll just be surprised we're handling 10 flavours
<Atreju> hello veryone
<Atreju> got a problem with hotplug after a clean installation
<Atreju> it hangs on boot and will not proceed and it drives me crazy 
<mdke> Atreju, #ubuntu can help
<mdke> if you use ubuntu
<Atreju> jup in there now
<Atreju> thanx
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/ScreenShots
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> we really should create a place where we can store the screenshots from our repo
<robertj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop <- can screenshots be taken now or do we need to wait for art freeze?
<Burgundavia> robertj: it is going to go on the website shortly, so they have to be breezy screenshots
<robertj> ohh
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-25
<robertj> is anyone else bugged by the new folder icon in Tangerine?
<robertj> I've come to realize that orange is just not me, and that's okay, and that other people will like it, but that icon irks me to no end
<robertj> are there any good tools for adding stickies & cutting / appending Desktop Recorder .gifs?
<Burgundavia> robertj: use bynaz to record them and then edit them with the gimp
<robertj> Burgundavia: Gimp is kinda awkward
<robertj> not having a timeline slider is kinda argh
<LaserJock> anybody alive over here? :-)
<Kaiser_Away> !
<LaserJock> hi Kaiser_Away 
<Kaiser_Away> hi LaserJock. hows it going
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> trying to get some doc work done
<LaserJock> and you?
<Kaiser_Away> trying to get a few pages further into my c++ book :/, witha view to ultimately knowing what i need to do 
<LaserJock> I'm not much of a programmer. I've done a little C, Fortran and Python, but I've never done any C++
<Kaiser_Away> heh. i had someone call it MicroSoft's language because it's what they primarly use
<LaserJock> doesn't KDE use C++?
<LaserJock> I didn't realize MS did C++, no wonder it is so popular.
<Kaiser_Away> um. not sure. QT is C bastardised
<LaserJock> hmm, seemed like either Gnome or KDE was C++ and the other was C
<Kaiser_Away> I'm fairly sure Gnome is C, so maybe KDE is C++
<Kaiser_Away> I'm sure NT5 and 9x are in C++, not sure about 3.x or nt4 (bu i gues C== ther as well)
<Kaiser_Away> *C++
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> what about C# ?
<Kaiser_Away> come to think about tit, i hav ethe complete C++ reference for win 3.1 at home.
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I didn't think it was that old
<Kaiser_Away> c# wont come into it untill vista i expect, but there's some in xpsp2 IIRC (but don't quote me)
<Kaiser_Away> "this version of C is commonly reffered to as C89, and it is the foundation apon which C++ is built."
<Kaiser_Away> but i cant see anything about C++ offical release 
<LaserJock> interesting
<Kaiser_Away> on the subject of C++ - 
<Kaiser_Away> "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." --Bjarne Stroustrup (originator of C++ programming language)
<robotgeek> hey robitaille 
<robitaille> Good evening robotgeek 
<LaserJock> hi robitaille and robotgeek 
<robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
<Kaiser_Away> hi
<mdke> morning
<Burgundavia> salut mdke 
<manicka> howdy mdke
<Burgundavia> can I get feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Desktop
<robotgeek> Your music and video, all the time << Rhythmbox?
<Burgundavia> and totem
<Burgundavia> that section needs bulking up
<robotgeek> i got confused. since i don't use ubuntu, i tht now there is a "combined" player
<Burgundavia> totem is a movie player
<Burgundavia> rb is itunes
<robotgeek> kk
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:Madpilot] : Ubuntu Documentation Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Get involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: 31 March 2006, 2100UTC https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda |
<LaserJock> hi Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi LaserJock
#ubuntu-doc 2006-03-26
<mgalvin> opinions needed...
<mgalvin> i keep getting requests by various users to change the dates on the previous flight reviews to reflect the new dates
<mgalvin> these are old docs now so i first thought to leave them alone
<mgalvin> but it may be best to change them
<mgalvin> do you guys think they should changed or be left as is?
<crimsun> I think it's a good idea to point them to the announcement made by sabdfl
<crimsun> personally, yeah, they should be amended (with the modification clearly noted)
<Burgwork> I would change them (with it a note)
<Burgwork> ie (Now delayed to June 1st. 2006)
<mgalvin> ok so i will amend them with a note and link to sabdfl's announcement
<mgalvin> thnx guys
<joelbryan> The Ubuntu Welcome Page is using XHTML Transitional, just wondering if you would plan to make it strict?
<joelbryan> I'm referring to the one that loads when you start firefox
<theCore> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> hi theCore 
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<theCore> i'm a bit tired... but I'm up for working on the PG
<LaserJock> sweet
<theCore> LaserJock: I heard about a 2 weeks deadline for the PG 
<theCore> is it right ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> because the Dapper schedule got pushed
<LaserJock> theCore: that is 2 weeks beyond the old DocStringFreeze
<LaserJock> theCore: btw, I set up a status report for each chapter and sect1 at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html
<Madpilot> LaserJock, you did the tweaks to the status tags, right?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: no, that was Jeff Schering
<Madpilot> ah
<Madpilot> it makes the status pages way, way more useful, anyway.
<LaserJock> Madpilot: yeah
<Madpilot> the comments are a nice touch, too
<LaserJock> I'm interested in the info tags too he was talking about
<LaserJock> I just wish I had less "Help Wanted" and more "Finished" ;-)
<LaserJock> hi mdke 
<robotgeek> hey all
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
* robotgeek checks knetworkmanager instructions
<mdke> bhuvan, awesome stuff on the serverguide
<blacking> hello all
<LaserJock> hi blacking 
<blacking> always the same problem..
<blacking> the wiki page of ubuntu explain the procedure how install ubuntu into an usb drive, but only for x86 platform
<LaserJock> blacking: which wiki page are you talking about?
<blacking> i need to do this also with Apple..
<blacking> wait
<blacking> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/FromUSBStick
<blacking> i am sure that it's possible make the same job with Apple, but i haven't too experience ..
<LaserJock> blacking: I'm guessing that is the problem. People have to try it to write the wiki page
<blacking> ok
<LaserJock> so I guess the key is to make the USB stick bootable for a mac
<LaserJock> blacking: I'm looking at some article that sugges that it isn't even possible to boot from a USB stick with a mac
<robotgeek> it should be
<LaserJock> Apple says they don't support it although it *might* work
<robotgeek> blacking: all you need is to add the usb modules to your kernel, and boot from it
<robotgeek> blacking: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=80811 , but with ppc modifications
<LaserJock> robotgeek: geeze, there are 31 pages. where did you find the ppc stuff?
<robotgeek> LaserJock: there are none, just follow the first post appropriately modifying it
<LaserJock> robotgeek: but that is for installing onto a USB drive, right?
<robotgeek> yes, but those are for x86. ppc has no grub
<LaserJock> blacking: is interested in putting the .iso on a USB stick to install from
<LaserJock> not to
<LaserJock> I think anyway
<robotgeek> hmm, it should be possible, macs support usb booting anyways
<LaserJock> do they? I'm reading both yes and now
<LaserJock> s/now/no
<robotgeek> Command-Option-F-F on bootup, i think
<LaserJock> robotgeek: do you have to do anything special to have it be bootable?
<LaserJock> robotgeek: I'm just looking at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106474
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i think that is for OS X, linux should do fine i think. i a mnot very sure, though
<LaserJock> I'm also reading some blogs, etc. that say the firewire drive boot but USB don't
<LaserJock> because Firewire is firmware and USB is software
<LaserJock> but I also found http://rentzsch.com/tidbits/intelbasedMacBootIncompatibility that says that Intel macs can boot USB ;-)
<robotgeek> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, I have a couple small sticks here. I wonder if I should try booting some *really* small linux distro just to see if it works
<LaserJock> robotgeek: grrr, I think I can boot off a USB stick with my Intel mac except it doesn't have a BIOS so no linux distro would work :(
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i think you can use CMD + option + F to boot from usb
<LaserJock> robotgeek: right, but you have to have EFI support on what you are booting :(
<LaserJock> for Intel macs
<robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, okay
<LaserJock> which is why I can't install any linux (or Windows I guess, but who would want to do that) at the moment
<blacking> sorry laser..
<blacking> problem with the internet
<littlepaul> hi
<littlepaul> littlepaul> dholbach, What is meant in flight 5 with "Graphical Power Tools" http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5 I see that just gdebi is described. Do you have a hint where I can find more information?
<LaserJock> wb blacking 
<littlepaul> <dholbach> littlepaul: you should maybe ask the guys who wrote the page, maybe ask in #ubuntu-doc
<littlepaul> LaserJock, could you answer my question?
<LaserJock> littlepaul: just a sec
<LaserJock> littlepaul: what do you want to know specifically? that is a somewhat vague question
<littlepaul> LaserJock, I read the text about "Graphical Power Tools" and I thought to read  a description about a set of tools but there was just one tool mentioned and I want to ask if there are more details regarding this. I searched the forum, wiki but did not found nothing proper
<LaserJock> littlepaul: I think it is a general description, not an actual program. It is just a way of listing some more advanced tools that are graphical.
<LaserJock> but I could be wrong. I didn't write that doc
<littlepaul> LaserJock, thx for answer;  maby I should ask mgalvin 
<LaserJock> littlepaul: that would be the best person to ask
<littlepaul> so ping mgalvin :)
<mgalvin> littlepaul: pong
<mgalvin> = Graphical Power Tools = is an intro section to the actual tools like gdebi...
<mgalvin> there are more then just he one tool, but they gotten hidden from the gnome menu just before the flight 5 release
<mgalvin> s/he/the/
<LaserJock> mgalvin: but they are installed?
<mgalvin> yes, i believe so, they are part of gnome
* mgalvin finds the link
<littlepaul> I appreciate this, thx
<mgalvin> http://live.gnome.org/PowerUserTools
<mgalvin> and
<mgalvin> http://live.gnome.org/UnixPowerForDesktop
<mgalvin> some things are in GNOME 2.14 some are not
<mgalvin> littlepaul: np
<mgalvin> also, some are available for install in universe
<littlepaul> mgalvin, thx for this great Info
<LaserJock> so how are you supposed to use them if they aren't in the Menu?
<mgalvin> littlepaul: sure, no prob
<mgalvin> hehe, thank menus revisited for that...
<mgalvin> well...
<mgalvin> for example gdebi is available via right click on a .deb
<mgalvin> the others may work there way into the menus dapper+1
<mgalvin> i would think
<littlepaul> k
<mgalvin> you could also just use alacarte and make them show up in the menu
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm just really having issues with MenusRevisited :/
<mgalvin> me too, i guess for new users it better but for us it is a bother, meh i just turn back on what i need :)
<LaserJock> I don't think it does new users and service to hide applications from them
<LaserJock> I think most users are curious as to what they have on their computer
<mgalvin> LaserJock: very true
<blacking> laser do you think possible install Hoary or Breezy B into an usb drive for ppc filesystem? 
<LaserJock> blacking: onto a usb drive or from a usb drive?
<blacking> sorry onto
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> robotgeek's suggestion of http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=80811 looks like it might work
<blacking> probably laser, but i ignore the right rules.. 
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-19
<coopster> I just made my first contribution to the wiki, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LogitechG15.  Anyone care to give it a once over and tell me how it looks?
<dsas> coopster: looks pretty good. you may want to expand on "Extract the packages to their own directory," and make it clear it's ok to delete them later (if it is)
<coopster> dsas, will do, thanks for the input.
<dsas> coopster: Looks a pretty nice page though :) Thanks for working on that.
<dsas> coopster: Also you may want to subscribe to that page via the little button near 'edit', you'll get an email alert if anyone edits the page then.
<coopster> never a problem.  as far as i can tell, i was the first to post about adding symbols to X, it took forever to figure it it out and i had to brag ;)
<coopster> ...it's really a shame though.  as i was writing that, it occurred to me that the better solution would be to just make a package that does that and submit it to Ubuntu.  I'm sure i'll end up doing that later and making my lovely doc obsolete. :-p
<dsas> coopster: Such is technical progress.
<mpt> coopster, most documentation is a workaround for insufficient code :-)
<LaserJock> interesting email we got
<Madpilot> which one?
<LaserJock> the returned mail one
<Ubugtu> New bug: #42016 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Various links to examples broken using Yelp as viewer" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42016
<Ubugtu> New bug: #93607 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Broken URLs in Yelp viewer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93607
<pradeep> If there's a minor typo in documentation for an app, where should I update it?
<cpk1> post a bug
<pradeep> cpk1, it's just one word
<cpk1> still gotta post a bug =)
<Bambi_BOFH> or slip it in with another fix ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> dratted dropouts
<pradeep> cpk1, won't it get ignored that way? there are many typos like that
<cpk1> pradeep: how would it get ignored?
<pradeep> cpk1, like this one: bug 65036
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65036 in exim4 "Minor typo in docs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/65036
<pradeep> there are more like those
<cpk1> well you could join the team and post the bug and fix it =P
<pradeep> cpk1, Yes maybe I could, but there could be a quicker way?
<cpk1> not afaik
<pradeep> If I try to join the team and change the documentation, it would only take effect in feisty+2
<pradeep> more: 67016,5571,46206
<pradeep> there might be many more wanting to do those 'small' changes
<pradeep> nvm
<mhb> hi
<mhb> is a translator allowed to change the links in the documentation?
<Burgwork> mhb: which links?
<mhb> some links in the feisty ubuntu-docs package point to the english help.ubuntu.com, which is untranslatable
<mhb> AFAIK
<mhb> there should be a way how to change those in the future ... I wonder if that is possible now
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> have to ask mdke
<mhb> okay
<mdke> mhb: feel free to point links to equivalent localised pages, for example on locoteam websites
<mhb> mdke: great, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-20
<nixternal> mdke: why haven't the kubuntu-docs been imported into Rosetta yet? The .pot files were included in the package
<jjesse> because we hate you
<dsas> now everyone will switch to GNOME bwahaha
<nixternal> looks like it
<nixternal> just got back to the hotel room
<jjesse> ah
<jjesse> where you at?
<nixternal> DC
<jjesse> i'm still in columbus
<nixternal> fun, I am here visiting my daughter
<nixternal> I am here until Wednesday
<nixternal> OK, I am going to go down with the neighbor for a few drinks ;)
<mdke> nixternal: still waiting on carlos, I'm chasing him basically every day
<nixternal> mdke: OK, I have Riddell chasing him now as well
<nixternal> hehe
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> anthony.freenode.net
<LaserJock> mdke: got a question about translation
<LaserJock> mdke: I want to install an about-edubuntu.desktop in edubuntu-docs but I'm not sure exactly how to get it translated
<mdke> LaserJock: I have no idea about that. What's it for?
<LaserJock> the About Edubuntu item in the System menu
<mdke> LaserJock: I'm afraid I don't know anything about that sort of thing
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, I just thought you might
<LaserJock> I might have to ask seb128
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu one is in the gnome-panel package
<mdke> looks like it yeah
<LaserJock> the ubuntu one has got a .desktop.in
<LaserJock> which looks like what is translated
<LaserJock> I'll just have to ask seb I guess
<mdke> right
<LaserJock> mdke: isn't there something close to public domain we could use?
<LaserJock> like MIT or something
<mdke> yes, maybe
<LaserJock> I think a copyleft (I think that's the right term) license should be avoided
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-21
<jjesse> nixternal: PING
<jjesse> nixternal: crfeated new bug 53155
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53155 in mc "Midnight Commander shows error messages" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53155
<jjesse> doh wrong #
<jjesse> nixternal: sorry its bug 80900
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 80900 in Ubuntu "problems resolving fully qualified domain names on Kubuntu feisty" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80900
<jjesse> dang it
<jjesse> nixternal: sorry i keep giving you the wrong bug #
<jjesse> nixternal: bug 94273
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 94273 in kubuntu-docs "Missing /kubuntu/administrative/index.html" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94273
<Ubugtu> New bug: #94273 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Missing /kubuntu/administrative/index.html" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94273
<nixternal> jjesse: ooh, good find
<jjesse> nixternal: sorry about the highlight spam
<jjesse> nixternal: and your welcome
<nixternal> man, this is a tough one to fix. I think for this I might just link to the KDE User's Manual
<nixternal> It looks like there is possibly a missing section
<jjesse> there is a missing section
<jjesse> however there is one in /branches/fiesty/ubuntu/administrative
<nixternal> darn, I can't do nothing about it :( They have imported for translations
<nixternal> or started the importing rather
<jjesse> can't we get an exception?  i think this is very importing
<nixternal> not for this one I don't think
<jjesse>  important
<nixternal> it is in 2 spots that I seen
<jjesse> for a missing document we can't get an exception?
<jjesse> grumble grumble
<nixternal> well, what we might be able to do is just change that link to local kde docs maybe?
<nixternal> it wouldn't be a string change then
<nixternal> I don't think there is a missing document truthfully, I think I left those links behind instead of pointing them to the correct location
<nixternal> I think I can change the links, and when we get translations back, I can create a quick script to change the links there
<jjesse> stupid question:  can't we copy /branches/feisty/ubuntu/adminstrative?
<nixternal> we could, but...it is more than likely GNOME dependent
<jjesse> another stupid question: can we generate exceptions?
<nixternal> ya, I need to point the links, I see where they are supposed to go
* jjesse is trying to understand translation freeze
<nixternal> hah, jjesse actually those shouldn't even be in there
<nixternal> because that part, before you can make those changes you have to switch to admin mode in system settings
<nixternal> so that is just something I brought over and overlooked from Ubuntu docs
<jjesse> so should references to administraative be removed?
<nixternal> yup
<jjesse> can we do that?
<nixternal> not now we can't
<nixternal> until they figure out another way to do translations around here
<jjesse> sorry for stupid questions
<nixternal> Ubuntu is horrible with it truthfully, I like the way KDE does it
<jjesse> is there a reason that you can't get an exception?
<nixternal> if it is major, we make the change, email i18n and it gets fixed within a couple of hours
<nixternal> here, when we upload a package that contains .pot files, it imports into Rosetta automatically
<jjesse> so if there is a mjaor bug we can't ever get an exception?
<nixternal> unless it is system threatening from what I was told
<nixternal> argh, I hate freezes
<jjesse> grumble grumble
<nixternal> exactly
<jjesse> i don't understand why things like that can't be changed
* jjesse is stupid when it comes to translations
<nixternal> if you would have found this this morning, we could have fixed it
<nixternal> as they hadn't started uploading our files
<nixternal> jjesse: as I am too
<jjesse> i did find it this morning but am !internet
<nixternal> ahhh
<jjesse> at work
<nixternal> hehe
<jjesse> clients that i work w/ don't like non approved devices and non-approved sites
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3987 kubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: fix committed - bug 94273 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 94273 in kubuntu-docs "Missing /kubuntu/administrative/index.html" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94273
<nixternal> heh, we can put it in fix committed now ;p
<nixternal> to bad that is trunk/ and not feisty/ though
<jjesse> yeah i know, can you ping someone who could get this fixed?
<nixternal> jjesse: all is not lost, I will talk to mdke when he is around and maybe he can get us hooked up
<nixternal> him or Riddell
<jjesse> awesome
<nixternal> if worse comes to worse, when translations come back, I can either remove the link or just point it to the KDE Users' Manual
<nixternal> if we can't fix it like right now, then what I will do is point to the Admin stuff in the KDE manual
<nixternal> I still have at least one more package to create and that is right before release
<jjesse> so w/ kde docs if there is a translation problem it can get fixed right away correct?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> as long as they deam it super important
<nixternal> usually with KDE, we edit trunk/ and when it comes time to start the tagging and what not, the important changes will be made and backported to 3.5.x
<nixternal> well, I am at least somewhat happy that we will have a good base for Feisty+1 to continue with
<nixternal> to build on rather
<nixternal> man, I made great time tonight
<nixternal> I left DC at 6pm EST, 5pm CST
<nixternal> and I have already been home for close to an hour
<nixternal> I was supposed to come back tomorrow morning, but I decided to check and see if United had a flight back tonight, and they said ya
<nixternal> I was surprised since the snow storms out there this week
<jjesse> nice
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r3988 /edubuntu/debian/ (edubuntu-about.desktop edubuntu-about.desktop.in install): added edubuntu-about desktop for System menu item
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3989 edubuntu/debian/ (edubuntu-about.desktop edubuntu-about.desktop.in install): added edubuntu-about.desktop for System menu item
<Madpilot> spambot ;)
<mdke> morning
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r3990 /xubuntu/desktopguide/desktopguide.pot: adding pot file for desktopguide
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3991 /edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Edubuntu pot files
<CoMp4c7> I was going to publish some how-tos in the Ubuntu wiki, but my english is not very good. Does anyone review the hot-tos?
<bdmurray> I'm testing the kubuntu daily build today and noticed an issue in the kubuntu documentation
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r3992 /edubuntu/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: Get About Edubuntu menu entry ready for translation
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: * added a .pot for the about edubuntu .desktop
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: * added X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=edubuntu-about.desktop to the .desktop
<LaserJock> mdke: nixternal and I just commited some stuff to get edubuntu-docs translated
<mdke> coolio
<LaserJock> we're likely to have at least one more big string change
<LaserJock> so maybe we'll wait until that's done to roll out a new edubuntu-docs with the .pots
<mdke> okies
<LaserJock> this translation stuff is incredibly confusing to me
<LaserJock> but carlos helped me
<LaserJock> and I created a .pot for the .desktop
<LaserJock> and we'll use the lang packs to get the translations
<LaserJock> at least I *think* that's how it works :-)
<mdke> very cool
<LaserJock> I can totally see why the About Ubuntu one is in gnome-panel though
<LaserJock> it's as easy as dropping one line in po/POTFILES.in
<LaserJock> but since we don't use all the autotools/intltools stuff we'd have to do a lot more work
* mdke boggles
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-22
<nixternal> bdmurray: what did you notice with the Kubuntu docs?
<nixternal> jjesse: you around?
<jjesse> nixternal: yeah i am
<jjesse> talking to wife
<jjesse> whats up?
<nixternal> I got your message, do you have a link or something to the note?
<jjesse> from mdke?  it was in the bug
<nixternal> oh, that is why I didn't see it
<nixternal> haha, I was looking all over IRC and the ML
<jjesse> ah aren't you subscribed to the bug?
<jjesse> should have came across email
<nixternal> ya, but I overlooked it
<nixternal> we were just going to remove that last sentence correct?
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3993 /kubuntu/keeping-safe/ (C/keeping-safe.xml keeping-safe.pot): removed line concerning admin info, which is listed in the same area - closes #94273
<jjesse> wahoo
<jjesse> hey nixternal did you hear the hotel ISP banned my access?
<nixternal> haha, no
<nixternal> what did you do?
<jjesse> i have no freakin clue
<jjesse> they said i was running limewire
<jjesse> i was like no i'm not
<nixternal> hahahahahahaha
<jjesse> then they said you have a virus
<nixternal> rofl
<jjesse> and i know i don't cause i'm runing linux
<jjesse> i asked if i that was a way to treat a gold member of the hotel chain and i would complain loudly about being banned from intenre access
<nixternal> my uni did the same to me, and when confronted, I made it known to the board that the IT department at the university is useless and under-educated
<jjesse> good for u
<nixternal> jjesse: my dad had a similar issue with Marriott or Holiday Inn, he called corporate and complained right from his hotel room, he said within 10 minutes his internet was back up and running
<jjesse> if it was marriot it was the same company that i called
<jjesse> ooo windows server 2003 service pack 2 that's a small download :)
<nixternal> haha, ya right
<nixternal> I have yet to use 2003
<jjesse> it's so much better
<nixternal> err, I have never used 2003, and really don't plan on it
<nixternal> unless of course they offer me a job again ;p
<jjesse> grin and then would you take it?
<nixternal> I just left there in March/April of last year ;)
<nixternal> I was working in the Ubuntu community and them at the same time ;)
<nixternal> I was lucky, my workstation there was a Solaris box
<jjesse> ah the software i consult on runs on win2k3
<jjesse> and sql including sql 2005
<jjesse> man futurama is soo funny, even though i've seen all of them
<LaserJock> nixternal: did you fix the edubuntu links?
<LaserJock> for the images
<bdmurray> nixternal: I think the contributors page was missing an end tag
<bdmurray> so it was not loading at all
<bdmurray> I wasn't sure if it was fixed in svn yet though
<nixternal> bdmurray: so it is so
<nixternal> hrmm
* Fujitsu wonders if anything is going to be done to make the dialup modem section of help a little more sane.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: patches welcom
<LaserJock> +e
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> LaserJock: what's up
<LaserJock> nixternal: ok, so the handbook doesn't validate because it's looking for the gnome menu ent
<LaserJock> did we get rid of that?
<nixternal> I had fixed that I thought
<LaserJock> well, in both the feisty branch and trunk
<LaserJock> when I got to validate the docs
<LaserJock> they complain about not finding it
<LaserJock> oh crap
<nixternal> ya, they used to point to edubuntu-menus-C.ent I thought
<LaserJock> I wonder if there is a limit on the size of a svn commit
<LaserJock> I'm a 190K diff right now
<nixternal> heh, if there was, mdke broke it last year when we did translations for Dapper
<nixternal> that is nothing, we had a couple meg
<LaserJock> ok
<Ubugtu> New bug: #94649 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Credits and License - Bad CC-by-SA link and Contributors page link" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94649
<nixternal> I have no clue on how to go about fixing this right now
<LaserJock> hmm, that is a bit sticky
<LaserJock> nixternal: can I just s/gnome-menus.ent/edubuntu-menus.ent/ ?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well, gnome-menus-C.ent will be there when it's installed
<nixternal> edubuntu-menus-C.ent
<nixternal> actually no
<nixternal> you need to get rid of one ../
<LaserJock> well, it's actually right, right now
<LaserJock> gosh, this is so not fun
<LaserJock> I really do wish we could just build thee HTML and install that
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> the problem is
<nixternal> actually, being able to read the .xml is wonderful, because that new bug is going to kill me
<nixternal> I think all I need to do is grab those files, and bring them into the kubuntu/ directory, build them out, and then move and link accordingly
<LaserJock> gnome-menus-C.ent will be installed by ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> so edubuntu-docs can't install it
<nixternal> that is why we did the edubuntu-menus
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
(nixternal/#ubuntu-doc) if it isn't necessary right now, I would kill it
(nixternal/#ubuntu-doc) worry about it for feisty+1 seeing how late in the game we are
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> LaserJock: highlight my name
<LaserJock> nixternal: rightnow?
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> I'm removing release notes completely
<LaserJock> ok, all the edubuntu docs validate
<LaserJock> I've got all of sbalneav's changes
<LaserJock> I got the edubuntu-about.desktop set
<nixternal> you rock!
<nixternal> brb
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha feisty * r3994 /edubuntu/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: big edubuntu commit
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: * removed the release notes and all references in Makefile and debin/rules
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: * added Scott Balneav's Handbook changes
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3995 edubuntu/ (11 files in 4 dirs): updating trunk from feisty branch revision 3994
<LaserJock> nixternal: ^^ :-)
<mdke> nixternal: if you find a fix for bug 94649, please tell me what it is! :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 94649 in kubuntu-docs "Credits and License - Bad CC-by-SA link and Contributors page link" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94649
<jenda> Is the wiki down?
<jenda> ah, my connection is... :)
<nixternal> mdke: the fix for bug 94649 would...I have no clue right now except for maybe bringing those files into the kubuntu/ dir, adding them to the makefile, creating a new entity name for them..and so on
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 94649 in kubuntu-docs "Credits and License - Bad CC-by-SA link and Contributors page link" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94649
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<LaserJock> mdke: do we have any need for a SoC project?
<LaserJock> mdke: also, can we get svn access for https://launchpad.net/~sbalneav. He's a Member, has contributed a ton to the Edubuntu handbook, and an all-around good guy ;-)
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3996 edubuntu/handbook/C/ (ltsp.xml server.xml standalone.xml workstation.xml): * really get in sync with feisty branch
<kestrel> 3C
<mdke> LaserJock: I put down HelpWikiQualityAssurance on the SoC page, not really sure
<mdke> LaserJock: have you seen sbalneav send docbook patches? I haven't seen any
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3997 /kubuntu/libs/ccbysa.xml: updated ccbysa
<pepsiman> small typo in trunk/kubuntu/games/C/games.xml
<LaserJock> mdke: he's commited to the old edubuntu doc team meeting
<LaserJock> mdke: and he's sent stuff to me and nixternal
<pepsiman> "The object to is remove" should be "The object is to remove"
<LaserJock> mdke: sorry s/meeting/repo/
<pepsiman> can someone fix it please
<mdke> LaserJock: right, ok. Maybe introduce him to the list or such?
<mdke> pepsiman: we're now in string freeze for Feisty. Best thing is to file a bug/send a patch for trunk and it will be fixed for the next release
<LaserJock> mdke: will do, he's one of the LTSP developers and does a fair amout of their documentation I think
<pepsiman> mdke: you're always in a string freeze when I find these probs.  OK
<mdke> pepsiman: :)
<mdke> LaserJock: oh, that's promising
<mdke> nice moustache too
<LaserJock> mdke: Canadian
<LaserJock> ;-)
<mdke> ok. got to go to bed now
<mdke> cya
<LaserJock> I meet him in Paris and he was at Mt. View too
<LaserJock> cya mdke
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3998 /kubuntu/libs/ (kde.ent legalnotice.xml): working on a fix here, bear with me, trying to do it without breaking a single string
<nixternal> heh, this is a killer
<nixternal> funny, if I run xml2po on an unchanged file, it gives me a different output than the original file
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-23
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: how can I update the svn to the latest doc one
<nixternal> svn up
<Admiral_Chicago> what about the address though
<nixternal> what address?
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> don't you already have it checked out locally?
<Admiral_Chicago> you don't need svn up www.docwhatever.com
<Admiral_Chicago> i have it on my computer as of the patches i sent you
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: I did svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
<Admiral_Chicago> to get the packages
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: if you did a checkout then just run svn up
<Admiral_Chicago> i did, says, "Skipped '.'
<Admiral_Chicago> is it because of the directory?
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: are you in the directory?
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r3999 / (19 files in 19 dirs): this is scary, but I only changed &legalnotice; to &klegalnotice; and added that to cdo-C in root libs - no string changes
<Admiral_Chicago> I think so 'freddy@omg-gnus:~/Ubuntu/Documentation$' has a folder ubuntu-doc
<LaserJock> so go into ubuntu-doc
<Admiral_Chicago> ah there it goes, thanks a lot LaserJock
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: np
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4000 /kubuntu/libs/ (ccbysa.html contributors.html): cheated - I built out contributors.xml and ccbysa.xml into 14647doc.html - will copy from kubuntu libs file to build file and move with dh_install in the script - this works
<nixternal> dude, I am kicking some ass right now
<nixternal> totally in the zone
* tonyyarusso wonders if it's sad to see the phrases "kicking ass" and "in the zone" when referring to software documentation, but decides not to dwell on it
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: while are in the zone. look at 94930
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4001 /kubuntu/debian/rules: debian dh_install for those 2 files
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: no, it's really good to see, trust me ;-)
<Admiral_Chicago> bug #94930
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 94930 in ubuntu-docs "Typo in games doc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94930
<nixternal> oh well
<Admiral_Chicago> that should be kubuntu docs
<nixternal> can't do nothing about it
<Admiral_Chicago> i thought so.
<nixternal> that will get fixed in feisty+1
<Admiral_Chicago> you'de have to change strings
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> so in English it will be incorrect, but I am sure those translators will correct it for their language ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> btw, in my forlder I have a bunch of games.xml ....which one do i need
<Admiral_Chicago> ignore the spelling.
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4002 kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: closes #94930
<nixternal> there, that was easy
<Admiral_Chicago> when i did svn > diff it compared it to 3999
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, at least commit the fix
<Admiral_Chicago> who cares if it gets released
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: does SVN comare to all versions of games.xml or the latest one, in this case games.xml.r3999
<nixternal> refine that one, you lost me
<Admiral_Chicago> okay. wait a sec.
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4003 ubuntu/games/C/games.xml: closes 94930 on the Ubuntu side
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: http://pastebin.ca/407224
<nixternal> ahh, you mean svn diff
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, i'm brain dead today I thikn
<Admiral_Chicago> and dyslexic
<nixternal> when you create a patch, as long as the actual file in the repo hasn't changed since you created the patch, then it is fine, but if it has changed since then, you would ahve to redo your patch
<Admiral_Chicago> so the patch will be correct so long as the file in the trunk in the SVN hasn't changed during generating the patch?
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: correct
<Admiral_Chicago> good
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4004 kubuntu/ (23 files in 20 dirs): merging feisty changes
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4005 /edubuntu/get-pot.sh: this will help Jordan remember xml2po
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4006 /edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): and here are the new pots
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4007 /edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed - forgot to svn up first
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4008 /edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): this commit proves that the get-pot.sh script is hokey - I didn't make any changes and ran it, but yet it changed the last rev pots
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: workin' late huh?
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> not tonight
<LaserJock> I thought the beta announcement was already written?
<Burgundavia> sort of
<Burgundavia> I thought so as well
<LaserJock> you'd think the Canonical marketing people would be really on top of that
<Burgundavia> apparently they leave it to us
<LaserJock> still, you'd think they'd at least follow up to make sure it's done
<LaserJock> ah well
<Burgundavia> eh
<LaserJock> sometimes I'm just amazed at what they have a "hands off" attitude while other things they control with an iron fist ;-)
<Madpilot> artwork & icons are under the iron fist, basic info on new beta/testing releases is hands off - go figure
<Madpilot> Edgy's orange Nautulis icons are both ugly and useless, btw
<Madpilot> just thought I'd throw that in
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgundavia> those are the new "tango" metaphor
<Burgundavia> the "no words on it"
<Madpilot> the real Tango Nautilus symbols are actually usable. The round orange things in Edgy are dreadful. They all look alike.
<mdke> nixternal: xml2po gives you a different output because the date of creation of the pot file changes, nothing else
<LaserJock> morning mdke
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> Spammer hard at work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jonni5?action=AttachFile
<Madpilot> mdke, want to ping the LP admins? I'm about to sign off for the night, but I'll delete those attachments first
<nixternal> mdke: ahhh, the date does it. I didn't even think about that
<nixternal> mdke: I fixed that linking issue with the license stuff :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #95108 in kubuntu-docs (main) "error in description of launching Ooo Writer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95108
<nixternal> NO!!!!!!!!
<nixternal> oh well, that isn't getting fixed
<nixternal> we totally need to come up with a better translation/string freeze system
<nixternal> mdke: if you get around..that latest fix I planned with the links. Well it seems the links in the .pot files need to be updated as well, so that kind of stinks
<nixternal> mdke: is it possible that when translations come back, I can fix those links in each translated file?
<nixternal> or is there an easier way?
<mdke> nixternal: well, by using sed, I guess
<nixternal> well ya, but I can do that right?
<mdke> hmm?
<nixternal> I mean fix the links before the last package is submitted?
<mdke> you could include a line that does it in the script which converts the translations into xml
<mdke> after doing the converting, you can use sed or whatever
<mdke> nixternal: and yeah, better translation/string freeze system should be in place for the next release because translations will be opening a lot earlier
<nixternal> awesome. Thanks mdke, you just made my day
<Gwaihir> hi all! I was wondering, the contributors.xml file... is going to be translated?
<nixternal> Gwaihir: I was wondering the same thing
<mdke> not planned at the moment
<mdke> Gwaihir: got any thoughts on it?
<nixternal> nobody really looks at it I don't think. The broken links in Kubuntu have been there for 3 releases now, and just recently it was reported :)
<Gwaihir> well... we just found it linked in a document...
<Gwaihir> so we were wondering what to do
<nixternal> you are referring to a Kubuntu document aren't you?
<nixternal> err, disregard that, you don't have my updated package
<Gwaihir> actually desktop-effects
<nixternal> that would be ubuntu-docs then
<Gwaihir> yes... ubuntu's one
<mdke> it's linked in every document
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> mdke: maybe we should go ahead and translate it
<mdke> hmm
<nixternal> it will carry over to every distro then
<Gwaihir> I think it would be nice...
<nixternal> ccybysa?
<mdke> it's just a list of names really, not a massive deal
<Gwaihir> but people should also localize the URL
<nixternal> mdke: oh ya, that is true
<nixternal> ;wi6
<nixternal> yay
<mdke> Gwaihir: yeah, we could do that with &language; but it's a bit of a pain, to be honest
<mdke> I'd probably prefer to avoid it for this release, unless it is quite important to have that translated
<nixternal> +1
<Gwaihir> well... maybe translators could just change the C in the link
<Gwaihir> not very important... just to have everything translated
<nixternal> ahhh. See, I did kubuntu-docs with help:/kubuntu/contributors.xml
<nixternal> so it is language independent that way
<nixternal> err, contributors.html rather
<Gwaihir> that way yes...
<nixternal> oh, I need to get the firefox-startpage for Kubuntu translated as well. How do I go about importing that?
<Gwaihir> in ubuntu is full path...
<mdke> nixternal: is it in html?
<nixternal> ya, that was the reason for my last bug fix for kubuntu-docs actually
<nixternal> mdke: yes
<mdke> there's no proper way of importing that to rosetta that I know of
<nixternal> so I have come to realise
<mdke> just do a call for manual translations
<mdke> i have to go for dinner now
<nixternal> to the translators list?
<nixternal> ya, I need to clean up or do something, now that I can feel a little easy now about translations
<Ubugtu> New bug: #83054 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Lack of "Linux Culture Guide"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83054
<Ubugtu> New bug: #95213 in xubuntu-docs (main) "xubuntu-doc hasn't update since dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95213
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-24
<Ubugtu> New bug: #95309 in ubuntu-doc "Typ0 in bounties page." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95309
<Burgundavia> mdke: should I ping nuzum about restoring edit access for the lot of us who had previous rights?
<Burgundavia> mdke: is that java pdf stuff available on the doc server
<nixternal> java pdf stuff?
<Burgundavia> there is pdf generation on the doc server
<nixternal> ahh, you are referring to Apache FOP
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> that is something you have to download and compile on your own locally
<Burgundavia> it is already setup on the server, hence why I ask
<Burgundavia> apparently it is a headache to do
<nixternal> it is a very big headache
<nixternal> even locally
<nixternal> ahh, if you have SSH access to the server, which I don't, then you could use it as well I guess
<mdke> nixternal: nope, it doesn't work on the server
<mdke> some issue with it needing an X server or some nonsense
* mdke boggles at "Lack of Linux Culture Guide"
<dsas> mdke: Asking friends is not a valid way to get help! You must be assimilated.
<mdke> :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #95492 in kubuntu-docs (main) "kubuntu-docs contains some incorrect strings for some games in the original translation" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95492
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4009 kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: changes Nexiuz app names to the correct in 4 spots - closes 95492
<nixternal> mdke: any idea about #95492 ?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #44944 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Help describes a nonexistent Preferences button" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44944
<mdke> nixternal: go for it, it's pretty exposed
<nixternal> recreate the pot and manually upload it afterwards?
<nixternal> would be great if you could diff a pot file and upload that
<mdke> I've posted to the bug report about how you do it
<nixternal> so it would only overwrite the edited section and not the entire pot file
<nixternal> rock on
<nixternal> thanks
<mdke> rosetta merges anything you upload so only the strings you've changed will be affected
<LaserJock> ok, /act
<LaserJock> bah
<jjesse> dang it in the book i referenced writer as word processor, etc as well
<jjesse> man i feel stupid
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4010 /kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: games edit to close 95492
<jjesse> more changes nixternal?
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4011 /kubuntu/games/games.pot: pot file to match the games.xml changes
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4012 kubuntu/games/C/games.xml: fix Wine menu link
<nixternal> jjesse: yup. gotta get them boogs closed
<jjesse> i hate finding bugs after freezes :(
<nixternal> I found another boog while looking through that games doc as well
<nixternal> same here
<nixternal> I am going to fix the OOWriter link error as well. small change
<jjesse> i just resent changes to the editor :(
<jjesse> i hope ohio state looses
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4013 /kubuntu/libs/kde-menus-C.ent: link to writer corrected
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4014 /kubuntu/office/office.pot: corrected Writer link -closes 95108
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4015 kubuntu/libs/kde-menus-C.ent: fixing writer link in trunk
<nixternal> Kubuntu Firefox startpage emailed to list for translations
<mdke> mpt: still around?
<mpt> mdke, it's a beautiful Sunday morning
<mpt> I'll be around for many hours yet :-)
<mdke> heh
<mdke> mpt: query
#ubuntu-doc 2007-03-25
<bill_k> wanted to report that part of a mythtv guide at help.ubuntu.com/community/ is out of date.  I don't know how to fix the problem myself, otherwise I would edit. Can anyone tell me who to contact about this?
<nixternal> bill_k: what don't you know how to fix?
<nixternal> do you know how to edit a wiki?
<bill_k> nixternal, i don't know how to fix it, i know how to edit
<nixternal> ahhh, you might want to hit up a mythv mailing list and ask for an Ubuntu/MythTV user to see about updating the page or what not
<bill_k> nixternal, thanks
<nixternal> yup
<bill_k> ok, fixed it
<Admiral_Chicago> are we not doing team of the week?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #95831 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Typo in windows doc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95831
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4016 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Wrong article id, changing to something sensible
<CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4017 ubuntu/windows/C/preparing.xml: Apply patch by Malcom Parsons (fixes bug 95831)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 95831 in ubuntu-docs "Typo in windows doc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95831
<Ubugtu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): ubugtu will be taken offline and integrated with ubotu - epect some downtime
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-17
<j1mc> hi jjesse
<mdke> sommer: well, it's really the 20th. But if the feature is going to be in hardy, it's a shame that there is no documentation - is it going to be?
<sommer> mdke: cool, I'll try to contact the developer working on it and get the status.  If nothing else I'll document how it should work and hope that it does by relaese :-)
<ubotu> New bug: #110983 in ubuntu-docs (main) "translation english-german" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110983
<ubotu> New bug: #203198 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Broken CompizFusion's wiki link" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203198
<ubotu> New bug: #203286 in ubuntu-docs (main) "about-ubuntu page for es_ES locale is incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203286
<mdke> sommer: cool thanks
<dsas> oops mdke I think I just stole your commit some how
<dsas> I hope this doesn't mean that I get the blame if you broke something!
<mdke> mdke: hmm?
<mdke> ah, i see
<mdke> looks alright
<mdke> dsas: you should bind your branch...
<dsas> mdke: That means any commits are automatically pushed right?
<mdke> dsas: yes, and it won't let you commit without updating if there are new revisions
<dsas> mdke: aha, done.
<mdke> it's cool
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-18
<j1mc> xubuntu docs... yeay!  they are coming along.
<ubotu> New bug: #203422 in kubuntu-docs (main) "[Hardy] Firefox Startpage Translations Needed" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203422
<ubotu> New bug: #203483 in ubuntu-doc "serverguide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203483
<ubotu> New bug: #203641 in ubuntu-docs (main) "'server' link instead of 'serverguide' causes I can't read server documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203641
<sommer> mdke: what are the times that doc.u.c updates?
<sommer> just curious
<mdke> sommer: for ubuntu docs, 0 and 12 hours
<mdke> (GMT)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-19
<j1mc> anyone around?
<sommer> j1mc: yo
<j1mc> hi sommer
<j1mc> i'm putting the finishing touches on xubuntu docs.  cody somerville was going to help me build them, but i think he's a little busy lately.
<j1mc> i was hoping someone could help me.
<sommer> uh, I *may* be able to
<sommer> have you built a package before?
<j1mc> nope.  not one.
<j1mc> :)
<sommer> that's cool, it's really not that hard
<sommer> best place to start is the packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<j1mc> i think i can ping mrpouit for help.  cody said that he'd be willing to help me out (i just remembered)
<sommer> cool, the getting started link will point you to which packages to install
<sommer> I've never actually built the doc package, but if you have any specific questions just let me know
<j1mc> thanks, sommer
<j1mc> the server docs have really improved a lot for this release.  i think it's great.
<sommer> thanks, they were in need of a few updates :-)
<j1mc> :)
<sommer> also mdke can probably answer any package related questions, but he's probably not on at the moment
<j1mc> sommer: do you have access to updating the ubuntu global.net file?  the kernel version listed isn't correct.
<j1mc> it says 2.6.22, and hardy uses 2.6.24
<sommer> I think you should be able to update it
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> I did ask mdke about it and he recommended to update all branches
<sommer> and since I don't have them all checked out, he said he'd update it
<sommer> if you have them checked out I'd say go ahead and update it
<j1mc> i don't know about glibc, but i've checked the other ones.
<sommer> heh, I'd imagine that glibc has been updated as well
<j1mc> would it be under package libc6  (do an apt-cache show libc6)  i show version 2.7 for glibc, based on that
<sommer> ummm... I think so, but you might want to double check
<j1mc> /lib/libc.so.6  (entering that command gave me the info)
<sommer> ah, I guess I'm not 100% sure, is libc the same as glibc?  isn't glib a gnome library?
<sommer> I'd imagine it is
<sommer> cause there isn't a glibc in dpkg -l | grep glib
<j1mc> but wouldn't the "g" stand for gnu?
<j1mc> gnu c library?
<sommer> heheheh... yep, your right
<sommer> I think I was thinking of gtk or something
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> sommer: what did i just do??
<j1mc> all of the updates are there, but the history isn't correct now.
<j1mc> crap
<j1mc> mdke is going to kill me.
<sommer> the history isn't correct?
<sommer> which commit do you mean?
<j1mc> check your email
<sommer> how about 3656
<sommer> did you do a bzr push after a bzr merge?
<nixternal> j1mc: my battery died
<j1mc> ah, ok
<j1mc> sommer: yes
<j1mc> sommer: all of the docs are ok in terms of content, but the history is screwed up
<sommer> it's not a big deal (I don't think) what happens is that a merge affects your local copy
<nixternal> j1mc: it is right on LP and my local history
<nixternal> the history matches just fine here
<j1mc> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy
<sommer> so when you then push it the repo the history goes along as well
<sommer> I'm pretty sure it's just a bzr thing
<sommer> heh... sort of a pun ;)
<j1mc> sommer: yeah, but it still sucks.  and why doesn't it happen to other people?
<sommer> I've done a bzr bind on my check out, which makes it act pretty much the same as svn
<sommer> when I do bzr commit it automatically goes to the repo
<sommer> you can find the command to bind the repo at the bottom of the repository wiki page
<sommer> I think it's just bzr bind bzr+ssh://path/to/repo, but you'll probably want to confirm that
<j1mc> i found it...
<j1mc> thanks.
<j1mc> is there any way to fix this, though?
<j1mc> i'm embarrassed.
<sommer> don't be, others have done the same thing, and the content is the important thing anyway
<j1mc> i guess this way it will make it look like i wrote all of the documentation for ubuntu, though.
<j1mc> which is great.
<j1mc> um... but i wish there were a way to fix it.  obvs...  you all have accurate local histories at this point.
<j1mc> CRAP!  i was trying to be helpful.
<sommer> there probably is, but I'm far from a bzr expert
<j1mc> i'll ask in bzr
<j1mc> #bzr
<nixternal> damn, the firefox start pages are a mess
<kgoetz> :(
<j1mc> kgoetz: :(
<kgoetz> j1mc: i was watching your bzr question - i did the same thing to myself a while ago
<j1mc> mdke: sommer nixternal http://pastebin.ca/948485
<sommer> j1mc: wow... we should turn on that options, heh
<j1mc> yeah
<sommer> I really wouldn't sweat it, ping mdke tomorrow and see what he wants to do
<sommer> maybe send an email to the doc ml to expect a few messages, then do the proposed fix?
 * kgoetz suspects now is a bad time to run bzr up
<kgoetz> s/up/merge
<sommer> I updated, but then I'm also working in an update :-)
<j1mc> yeah, a day before string freeze i screw up the history.
<j1mc> trying to be helpful
 * kgoetz passes j1mc the lamp of shame
<kgoetz> :P
 * j1mc puts on lampshade
<sommer> no worries, the history shouldn't be affected by the freeze
<sommer> at least I don't think it gets translated, heh
<j1mc> entering the command "bzr log --show-ids > ~/Desktop/ids" does show everything correctly.
<j1mc> (i sent the output to a file cos there's a lot of it)
<j1mc> i sent matthew a note about it
<j1mc> he probably won't be available for a while now cos he's flying over from england to kick my ass.
<kgoetz> hehe
<sommer> lol, just get in some good quick shots while he's jet lagged
<nixternal> bzr commit --fixes lp:bug_num
<nixternal> great flag right there...never knew about it until just now
<nixternal> it will add a link in the description showing the new fix
<j1mc> bzr bind... how about that one?
<j1mc> that's the best one ever
<nixternal> hell no
<nixternal> bzr co
<nixternal> that's all I do
<j1mc> but you can't commit locally if you do a co
<nixternal> don't need to
<nixternal> all of my fixes go right into the repo for everyone
<nixternal> when it comes to funky setups, I am not a bzr fan
<nixternal> Mercurial and git are good for funky stuff like that ;p
<kgoetz> hehe. when it comes to funky setups i still think patches are cool :P
<nixternal> very true, I am with you there
<nixternal> I like the bundles feature of mercurial
<j1mc> i would be much happier right now if i had just done bzr diff > patch and emailed someone.
<nixternal> lol
<j1mc> F*CK
<kgoetz> hehe
<nixternal> and with bzr co, I don't have to worry about mucking up the history :p
<j1mc> with bzr bind you don't have to worry about mucking up history either
<nixternal> j1mc: did those fixes in pastebin work?
<j1mc> i haven't tried.
<j1mc> i don't want to send out 108 emails to the entire doc team from launchpad.
<j1mc> not w/o people being aware of it
<nixternal> j1mc: oh well, mdke and I did it from dapper -> feisty with translations
<nixternal> we have like 6mb emails too :)
<nixternal> s/have/had
<nixternal> to bad there isn't such a thing like 'svn commit -m "SVN_SILENT: foo foo foo foo"'
<nixternal> as long as the triggers are added
<j1mc> right...
<kgoetz> hehe
<j1mc> do you think i should try the comment from lifeless?  he's an old hand at bzr development, so i trust him.
<nixternal> I would
<nixternal> if it messes up, blame him :p
<j1mc> kgoetz: what do you think?
<kgoetz> j1mc: i rec'n you should try it out.
<sommer> +1 from me, what's the worste that could happen :-)
<kgoetz> j1mc: we all support your actions, until you send the emails :P
<nixternal> haha
 * j1mc goes to join #bzr again to ask another question
 * kgoetz watches
 * nixternal laughs
<j1mc> haha
<sommer> hrmm... doc.u.c doesn't seem to be updated
<j1mc> you need to make sure you refresh the page
<j1mc> i've encountered that quite a bit
<j1mc> we could all set our email notifications to "no emails" and then turn it back on.
<j1mc> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy  > edit subscription
<j1mc> kgoetz: are you following in #bzr?  any thoughts?
<kgoetz> j1mc: let me read up (being tought perl by my boss atm...
<kgoetz> i think you branch from the last commit befor yours. try it out, just stop following lifeless' steps where you commit back to LP :)
<j1mc> kgoetz: or sommer ... could one of you do "bzr log --show-ids > ~/Desktop/ids" and pastebin the top of the output from that log?
<kgoetz> sommer: is probably your best bet
<kgoetz> as my repo is about a week old (when i last hacked on the docs)
<j1mc> right... and he committed the last valid commit.
<sommer> j1mc: the file is pretty big
<j1mc> sommer: right...
<j1mc> bzr log --show-ids > ~/Desktop/ids
<sommer> want me to email it to you
<j1mc> sure
<j1mc> jwcampbell ate gmail.com
<sommer> on the way
<j1mc> thanks...
<kgoetz> *grin* @ ate
<j1mc> :)
<sommer> np, bed time for me
<sommer> later all
<j1mc> ok...
<j1mc> thanks!!
<kgoetz> later mate
 * kgoetz nurses his could-happen-but-just-on-edge-currently rsi
<j1mc> rsi?
<kgoetz> repeditive strain injury
<j1mc> :(
<kgoetz> eg, typing
 * kgoetz reads doco to try and avoid pain
<j1mc> i have the command ready, but i'm just apprehensive
<j1mc> bzr branch -r revid:asommer70@gmail.com-20080318135647-hbbpj5bl819nu1oa trunk local; cd local; bzr merge -r revid:jwcampbell@gmail.com-20080315024243-bzrus01hxn3r6v9y ../trunk; bzr commit; bzr push --overwrite ../trunk
<kgoetz> i understand your nervousness
<kgoetz> want my advice?
<j1mc> sure
<kgoetz> run ` bzr commit; bzr push --overwrite ../trunk` as a second command
<kgoetz> and check what has changed after the first bit runs
<j1mc> my gut is to send the chat info to mdke and let him decide
<j1mc> what do you think?
<kgoetz> i think run the first bit, and if your not positive it'll do what you want, wait for mdke
<j1mc> "the first bit" being...
<kgoetz> 16:33 < j1mc> bzr branch -r revid:asommer70@gmail.com-20080318135647-hbbpj5bl819nu1oa trunk local; cd local; bzr merge -r revid:jwcampbell@gmail.com-20080315024243-bzrus01hxn3r6v9y ../trunk;
<kgoetz> s/;$/$/
<kgoetz> eg. stopping before you commit back
<j1mc> and then checking the log...
<j1mc> good idea
<kgoetz> :)
<j1mc> hm, this may take a while
<j1mc> it's going though
<kgoetz> it may take a while yeah :)
 * kgoetz wonders if theres been any updates to the [ed,k]ubuntu docs (if there hasnt, no need for me to pull again)
<nixternal> just firefox startpage updates
<nixternal> probably make a few changes tomorrow if I have time
<kgoetz> cutting it fine :)
<nixternal> as fine as possible...tend to do that every release
<j1mc> woot
<j1mc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy/changes
<j1mc> i fixed it
<kgoetz> :D
<j1mc> kgoetz: are you getting a flood of emails?
<kgoetz> j1mc: i'm not part of docteam
<j1mc> ah, ok
<kgoetz> i'm heading to dinner+ home
<kgoetz> catch you later all
<j1mc> later!
 * j1mc goes to bed
<George> New bug: #203827 in ubuntu-doc "serverguide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203827
<George> New bug: #203829 in ubuntu-doc "server guide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203829
<cge> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'm rather confused by the MacBookPro page on the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacBookPro). Why does it have a bizarre warning at the beginning, before a bunch of random information about things like proprietary programs for theming vista? Is the warning at all valid, or is it just the result of some misinformed editor?
<mdke> cge: that is seriously weird
<cge> mdke: There seems to be a group of one or two editors very strongly responding to any attempts to remove some of the stuff.
<cge> I can't figure out how to get information on the launchpad users behind the usernames, so I have no idea who they are.
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> there are clearly parts of the page that are inappropriate
<mdke> also, the whole page should be moved to help.ubuntu.com
<cge> I was wondering why it was on wiki.ubuntu, yes.
<mdke> I'll move it now, it will provide an opportunity to remove the vista stuff
<cge> thank you
<mdke> cge: moved. I've deleted the sections dealing with Windows and OSX - I will try and contact the author to discuss
<cge> Very good - thank you. I'll also try to update it if I have time in the next few days.
<sommer> mdke: I don't think doc.u.c has been updated for a while... at least the latest serverguide changes aren't showing up :-)
<ubotu> New bug: #204030 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package ubuntu-docs 7.10.5 failed to install/upgrade: fork falhou" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204030
<l3on> Hi... I'm walking into wiki and find this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KennethBaafour
<l3on> Nothing strange by a quick look... but look at attachfiles ;)
<l3on> Here is the right place to comunicate it?
<l3on> mdke: are you there?
<cge> Now we're going to have a revert war on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro it seems. I had hoped that sort of thing was limited to Wikipedia...
<seisen> somebody delete before?
<cge> A user keeps adding a bunch of stuff about Vista themes, games, and whatnot, and keeps adding it back in whenever anyone removes it, even if it's mdke doing the removal...
<mdke> l3on: what's up?
<l3on> mdke: files attached to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KennethBaafour were full of spam...
<l3on> linked to porn site & co...
<l3on> I deleted them...
<mdke> l3on: thanks for doing that. You can also report the username responsible in #launchpad and ask for the account to be deactivated
<l3on> mdke: controll before ;)
<mdke> l3on: sorry?
<l3on> nothing mdke, I've read that you'll contact them... I've read wrong :P
<mdke> :)
<l3on> ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-20
<j1mc> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> grr
<j1mc> heh...
<kgoetz> hehe
<kgoetz> string freeze day!
<j1mc> woo!
<kgoetz> no more commits from j1mc please :P
<j1mc> actually, i think string freeze just passed.  "Freezes normally happen at the start of the given date, UTC time. So last minute changes need to happen the day before."
<j1mc> haha...
 * j1mc removes 1008 revisions from branch
<j1mc> "welcome to ubuntu warty warthog, version 2.18384"
<j1mc> of course, they're probably a little flexible on last-minute changes on string-freeze day.
<ubotu> New bug: #204163 in ubuntu-docs (main) "server guide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204163
<ubotu> New bug: #204167 in ubuntu-doc "server guide error " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204167
<ubotu> New bug: #204175 in ubuntu-doc "server guide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204175
<ubotu> New bug: #204376 in ubuntu-docs (main) "NovÃ© nÃ¡vrhy na pÅeklad Å¡ablony gnome-commands v balÃ­ku ubuntu-docs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204376
<mdke> hi all
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-21
<j1mc> sommer: you here?
<sommer> j1mc: hey hey hey
<j1mc> hi sommer
<j1mc> party time, excellent
<sommer> heh, just woke up from a nap
<j1mc> take your time
<sommer> oh, it's on! jheheheh
<sommer> have you had a chance to look throught the packaging guide?
<j1mc> sommer: no, not really... sorry.
<sommer> I've checked out the xubuntu branch so I think I should be able to walk you thorugh it :-)
<j1mc> i hope so.
<j1mc> :)  thanks for offering to help, btw
<sommer> no problem, if you want to open it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<sommer> there's some packages to install first
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> once you have it open go ahead and click the "Getting Started" link
<j1mc> i'll let you know when i have the packages installed
<j1mc> brb
<sommer> cool
<j1mc> done  i installed everything from the "packaging tools" section
<sommer> okay, now you'll need to setup a pbuilder environment
<sommer> the commands toward the bottom of the page: sudo pbuilder create --distribution hardy
<sommer> basically a pbuilder is a chroot environment packed into a tarball, it's pretty slick
<j1mc> cool... almost done
<j1mc> uh, actually... not quite almost done
<sommer> did the hardy part work?
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> it's working, just retrieving a bunch of stuff
<j1mc> it will be a few minutes... it's going in alpha order, and it is on the "L's" right now
<sommer> good, I was thinking you needed to install another package, but I guess not, coolness
<sommer> ya, the creation process can take a while
<sommer> j1mc: do you have a gpg key ?
<j1mc> yeah
<sommer> cool
<j1mc> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x571FF83D&op=index
<j1mc> that's it, right?
<sommer> beauty, yep
<j1mc> OpenPGP keys:    571FF83D
<j1mc> i'm not sure if i've ever used it.  it's been a long time since i set it up, and it probably wasn't on this machine.
<j1mc> i should know the password, though, if i need to use it.
<sommer> I think it just needs to be in the keyring, it's really only needed to sign the package
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> but sicne someone else needs to upload it they'll use their key anyway
<j1mc> pbuilder stuff is done
<sommer> okay, click on the "Packagingguide/Basic" link at the bottom
<sommer> you can read through the explanation of the files if you'd like, but the import instructions are under the "Building the Source Package" heading
<sommer> important even
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> now add a change log entry by doing: debchange -i
 * j1mc moves to the root of my xubuntu-hardy branch
<j1mc> do i enter debuild -s?
<j1mc> (capital S)
<sommer> not yet, you need to create a changelog entry first, this will increment the package number
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> that part is explained earlier in the section, doing it by hand anyway
<sommer> I like the debchange -i command, quick and clean :)
<j1mc> debchange: debian/changelog unmodified; exiting.
<j1mc> should i have entered stuff in there?
<sommer> did it open an editor?
<j1mc> yeah
<sommer> ah, yep... place a comment after the "*"
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> okay, now do the debuild -S -kgpgkey
<j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/951144
<j1mc> that is what was in there already
<sommer> did it create a new entry for you?
<sommer> above that entry?
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> i just entered a short thanks...
<sommer> if not, try doing export DEBEMAIL=youremail export DEBFULLNAME=yourname
<j1mc> do i have to do anything else?
<j1mc> yeah, my info was in there
<sommer> cool, nope just save the file
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> done
<j1mc> now debuild -S -kgpgkey  ?
<sommer> ya, you may not need the -k, but for me if I don't add it, it won't use my key to sign the package
<sommer> you can go ahead and try without, you can always try again with :-)
<sommer> but ya now do a debuild -S
<j1mc> hm... http://pastebin.ca/951147
<sommer> sorry replace gpgkey with your key
<sommer> so it'll be: debuild -S -k571FF83D
<j1mc> hm, that still didn't work.
<sommer> did it give you an error?
<j1mc> might it be that i don't have that key present on this machine?
<j1mc> yeah
<sommer> ya, probably is, can you place it in .gnupg?
<j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/951150
<sommer> if not, it's probably fine to just create an unsigned package
<sommer> ah, one more package you'll need apt-get install cdbs
<j1mc> would i place it in here?  http://pastebin.ca/951154
<sommer> ya, but I forget the commands
<j1mc> ah, installing that cdbs package helped
<j1mc> it is working  :)  dpkg-source: building xubuntu-docs in xubuntu-docs_8.04.1ubuntu1.tar.gz
<sommer> cool, if you want to sign the package here's the gpg link:https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<sommer> ya the package should be in ../*.dsc
<sommer> it's usually best to test it: sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<j1mc> full output: http://pastebin.ca/951161
<sommer> cool, yep everything worked... just not signed
<sommer> should be okay
<j1mc> if i wanted to sign the package, i could redo the steps we've done (later) following the wiki above?
<j1mc> (to sign the package)
<sommer> ya, once you have the key installed, rebuild using: debuild -S -kgpgkey
<sommer> it should then ask you the key password at the end of the build process
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> is the package built now, though?
<j1mc> what would be the next step?
<sommer> have you done the pbuilder?
<j1mc> no
<sommer> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<j1mc> sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<j1mc> is that right?  w the "/" in there?
<sommer> heh... that too, depending on which directory you're in
<j1mc> i will try it with the /
<sommer> you should see xubuntu-docs_8.04.1ubuntu1.dsc or something similar
<sommer> if not in your current directory then in ../
<j1mc> ok... i see it in ../  it's doing some work now... downloading stuff.
<j1mc> should be just a minute or two more
<sommer> cool, ya it'll take some time
<sommer> I gotta take the dog out, be back in a sec
<j1mc> ok
<sommer> I'm back
<sommer> still building?
<j1mc> just finished
<j1mc> no errors...
<sommer> cool, the .deb should be in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
<sommer> you can install it with sudo dpkg -i
<j1mc> schwing!
<j1mc> haha
<j1mc> this rocks
<sommer> party!
<j1mc> haha
<j1mc> ok... so now what do i do?  i think i'll want to rebuild that package as signed
<sommer> so I guess the next step is to file a bug asking for someone to upload it, and attache the .dsc file to the bug
<sommer> or, ya rebuilding works :-)
<sommer> schaaaawing... heh
<j1mc> ok... the .dsc file from my /var/cache/pbuilder/result folder?
<j1mc> or the first one?
<sommer> sure, I think it's just a copy of the ../ one
<sommer> either or
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> awesome.
<j1mc> do i file the bug against the xubuntu-docs package?
<sommer> I think mdke filed a bug for the ubuntu-docs package a while back, but I can't seem to find it
<j1mc> hm...
<j1mc> i can't find it either
<sommer> ya, I guess just file it under xubuntu-docs, then you might ask in #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu about the next step
<dsas> bug 192488 perhaps
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 192488 in ubuntu-docs "Please update ubuntu-docs from bzr" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192488
<sommer> boom! that's the one I was thinking of :-)
<sommer> dsas: thanks
<j1mc> should i reopen that?
<j1mc> it's shown as fixed-released
<sommer> I'd create a new one, since it's a different package
<sommer> but you could follow that format
<sommer> Subscribed ubuntu-main-sponsors... I think is what calls the attention of those needed to update the pacakge
<j1mc> and still attache the .dsc file?  matthew didn't do that
<sommer> umm... I don't think it'll hurt
<sommer> it'll show that it at least build :-)
<j1mc> so they'll build it... i just test it on my own machine to make sure before asking them to do it?
<sommer> yep, I think that's the process
<j1mc> ok.  cool.
<j1mc> thanks so much for your help.
<sommer> not a problem
<j1mc> party on... have a good evening
<sommer> heh, party on j1mc
<ubotu> New bug: #204501 in ubuntu-doc "Please update Xubuntu docs from bzr" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204501
<ubotu> New bug: #204666 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Please upload ubuntu-docs 8.03.3 from bzr" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204666
<nijaba> Hello, does anyone know if doc.ubuntu.com has been updated since the 19th?
<nijaba> I know that sommer has done some excellent update of the server guide but I don't see them reflected yet
<Bonzodog> mdke
<Bonzodog> you here
<Bonzodog> right, i have something to say
<Bonzodog> Yes, the UDSF is shutting down.
<Bonzodog> but NOT because of you lot
<Bonzodog> mark DID ask us (nicely) to shut it down
<Bonzodog> but we were getting short on manpower
<Bonzodog> and other facilities to run it, anyway
<Bonzodog> however, we DO  now have the Ubuntu Gaming Arena, which has Marks *full Blessing
<Bonzodog> and it's proven to be a runaway success
<jpatrick> Bonzodog: can you please tell me what UDSF is?
<Bonzodog> so we decided that for the greater sanity of everybody that the UDSF had it's day, and it's server space and bandwidth is going to expanding the UGA as the main face of Gaming facilities in Ubuntu
<Bonzodog> jpatrick: the UDSF is (until the end of the month) the Ubuntu Document Storage Facility
<jpatrick> ah, thanks :)
<Bonzodog> which was being used to document how-to's from the forums
<Bonzodog> a lot of which are fast becoming out-moded anyway
<Bonzodog> due to the increasing automation in ubuntu
<sommer> Bonzodog: have you considered submitting the content to the System docs?
<sommer> Bonzodog: or adding it to the help.ubuntu.com wiki?
<sommer> Bonzodog: also is the UGA a game server? or something else?
<Bonzodog> sommer: I canot use the moin moin wiki...it's torture
<Bonzodog> and it's slow
<Bonzodog> like really slow
<Bonzodog> considering the servers are just a few miles from me
<sommer> ya, I can understand that
<Bonzodog> the UGA is a gaming Wiki, yes, but it also can host massive online gaming
<sommer> do you have plans for the content?  just curouis... I've never been to the site
<Bonzodog> I really do not like mon moin
<Bonzodog> well, i'm not sure the content would be of any ise to you lot
<sommer> well if it helps people to accomplish what they want to do with Ubuntu, I'd think it'd at least be worth looking through :-)
<sommer> what form is the conent in now?  html, text...
<Bonzodog> text
<Bonzodog> for dokuwiki
<Bonzodog> dokuwiki is very efficient
<Bonzodog> the UGA uses it as well
<Bonzodog> scales up well, and is very fast
<Bonzodog> anyways, i have to go
<Bonzodog> later
<sommer> what kind of topics does it cover?  I must admit I'm really only interested in server type stuff :)
<sommer> doh
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-22
<kanadian> hello
<j1mc> hi kanadian
<kanadian> how are you
<j1mc> fine, thx.  and you?
<kanadian> good
<kanadian> im looking to get into documenting for kubuntu, where do I start? I checked out ubuntu/community and I think I want to edit the wiki but it all looks pretty good and solid
<j1mc> hmm...
<j1mc> there is a "categorycleanup" on the wiki... pages in need of being cleaned up
<j1mc> i'm looking for a link
<kanadian> i found it
<kanadian> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> i see 3 kubuntu-specific docs on there.  (just in searching for the word kubuntu)
<kanadian> ok thats a good start, unfortunately i have no experience with redhat or gentoo lol
<kanadian> :)
<j1mc> jonathan jesse is the kubuntu doc guy
<j1mc> he and nixternal
<kanadian> yes I was actually talking to nixternal today
<j1mc> they could probably be of more assistance in knowing where they need help
<j1mc> ah, cool.  :)
<kanadian> how long have you been using linux? and what are you doing right now for doc ?
<kanadian> if you don't mind me asking
<j1mc> i've been using ubuntu/xubuntu since spring of 2006, and i work on xubuntu docs
<kanadian> well thats good, i'm just deserting windows (xp and vista)
<kanadian> installed pclos but just wasn't overly impressed
<kanadian> tried about 10 diff distros and settled on kubuntu because it has the eye candy I want
<j1mc> we're all at a unique time in the doc-release cycle... we just had "string freeze" this week, so the official documentation is pretty much set.... but you may be able to assist with some canadian translations
<j1mc> if you're from canada.
<j1mc> kubuntu is a good distro.  :)
<kanadian> well its a good guess ;)
<j1mc> :)
<kanadian> im just not sure what you mean about canadian translations (french?)
<j1mc> well, "color" vs. "colour" "favorite" vs. "favourite"
<j1mc> stuff like that
<kanadian> ahh yes, I know what you mean now. more grammar based
<j1mc> i don't know the status of those translations...
<j1mc> http://ubuntu-ca.org/
<kanadian> ahh great thanks! I didn't know a canadian ubuntu site existed
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> there's a canadian irc channel, too.  #ubuntu-ca
<kanadian> seems it's somewhat down at the moment "We're sorry, but the page you requested can not be found. The most likely cause of this is that the Ubuntu Canada web site was recently migrated to a completely new host and platform, and building it up has been started from scratch. For this reason, bookmarks and links to old content will be invalid. Additionally, the current theme is a default from Canonical, and includes many links that are not
<kanadian> valid in this context."
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> what did you and nixternal talk about?
<kanadian> well i'm really hoping to dig into some doc editing soon
<kanadian> ahh well it actually came about as I launched Konversation while using Kubuntu 7.10 liveCD and the username came up as "ubuntu" and then a couple of people were discussing the default user name and hard coding a fix so that konversation wouldn't default to a user name like that...but alas it was because I was using a livecd
<j1mc> ah, ok
<j1mc> you talked with nixternal about that?
<kanadian> yeah...not much exciting
<j1mc> ok
<kanadian> yup but that ended with the livecd conclusion :0
<kanadian> :) *
<kanadian> and then I stumbled on his blog about an hour ago by chance
<j1mc> well, we just finished up the official documentation for hardy.  or it's in the very very finishing stages.
<j1mc> but the wiki may need certain updates
<j1mc> or their may be translations (particularly the KDE4 stuff?)
<j1mc> but nixternal or jjesse could direct you a bit better than i.
<j1mc> have you subscribed to the ubunt-doc mailing list?
<kanadian> ok, well thats what I was thinking of working on anyways, im more interested in the migration from windows to linux aspect so the wiki may be where I should look
<kanadian> no, but i'll do that now
<j1mc> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring
<j1mc> just let them know that you're interested in working on Kubuntu docs... maybe focusing on the wiki for now.  let them know if there's any particular program / software that you're interested in learning more about
<kanadian> bookmarked, thanks m8
<j1mc> yw
<j1mc> i gotta get to bed for now, but ... good luck.
<j1mc> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> j1mc, later mate ;)
<kanadian> thanks for your help
<kanadian> much appr.!
<j1mc> later  :)
<kanadian> later
<ubotu> New bug: #204992 in ubuntu-doc "server guide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204992
<sommer> mdke: is it cool to fix that typo?  Bug #204992
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204992 in ubuntu-doc "server guide error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204992
<mdke> sommer: yes
<sommer> mdke: cool thanks man
<j1mc> mdke: per the discussion about using the new pack format: http://pastebin.ca/953065
<sommer> what up jim
<j1mc> hi adam
 * sommer is discovering the awesomeness of aspell :)
<j1mc> hi all, i was looking to do some xubuntu wiki cleanup, and found this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocumentation  it got me thinking about the difference between the help.ubuntu.com/community/ and wiki.ubuntu.com . . . how would this difference playout for xubuntu?
<j1mc> nm
<mdke> j1mc: I think it's best to start future repositories using standard bzr formats, and leave the existing ones as is... dunno if that will sit well with a shared repository with all of them though
<mdke> j1mc: as for the wiki, the answer is I suppose however xubuntu wants it to play out; although I would have thought the same would apply. does xubuntu have a separate wiki?
<mdke> sommer: whoosh, that's quite a lot of changed strings!
<sommer> mdke: ya, sorry I really should have done a spell check before SF
<sommer> hopefully there won't be any more
<mdke> hope so... each string that changes is one that translators potentially have to re-translate
<sommer> ya, most of the spelling errors were mine, but some have been around for a while
<sommer> since the changes didn't affect the content, hopefully it will be quick work
<sommer> the meaning of the content that is
<mdke> for new strings, probably most haven't been translated already
<mdke> but you can't assume it will be easy to translate a string again - it might not be the same translator doing it, and rosetta only shows suggestions for identical strings
<mdke> anyhow, it's good to get them out the way now
<mdke> the translators have a fair run
<sommer> ah, ya, I'll definitely make sure to spell check before commits
<mdke> would probably be useful for everyone :)
<sommer> strange thing is that I used set spell in vim, but it didn't catch the errors
<sommer> maybe I did something wrong, or didn't set soemthing correctly
<sommer> anyway, the aspell command is genius :-)
<mdke> ah, I see why doc.ubuntu.com hasn't been building. damn
<sommer> cool
<mdke> that's better
<j1mc> mdke: re: the repo... however you'd prefer to handle it is fine.  i'm obviously not a bzr expert :), but just wanted us to be aware of the options.
<j1mc> the xubuntu wiki is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<j1mc> i didn't fully grasp the difference between the wiki (being project-focused documentation) vs. the community help pages (being community-created user-support pages)
<j1mc> that is clear now
<mdke> j1mc: cool
<mdke> j1mc: I don't know much about bzr either ;)
<nixternal> how goeth the master himself mdke?
<mdke> nixternal: I'm alright thanks, how are you?
<mdke> got a new computer :)
<mdke> very happy
<popey> mdke: what did you go for in the end
#ubuntu-doc 2008-03-23
<nixternal> mdke: doin' fine, a bit busy though
<kanadian> nixternal: hi, im looking to dig into some ubuntu documentation but I'm more or less new at linux and documenting for that matter
<nixternal> groovy...documenting is a fairly straight forward and easy process
<nixternal> the "new at Linux" part usually takes a bit to get over
<kanadian> i stumbled upon your blog the other day and was actually talking to you just yesterday. do you remember "ubuntu"
<nixternal> yup, in #kde
<kanadian> yup, well anyways, Im not sure how I stumbled on your blog but I did somehow through google and ended up back at ubuntu/community
<nixternal> hehe, so it is working then :)
<kanadian> if you mean the google hits then yet
<kanadian> yes
<nixternal> honestly, documentation wise, I am working more in KDE now more so than Kubuntu especially with the release of KDE 4
<nixternal> there is so much documentation work to get done
 * dsas_ flogs nixternal harder
<nixternal> no flogging!
<kanadian> yeah I realize this is a pretty busy point for kde4, i've been waiting anxiously for it to be released in mainstream distros, I need a stable system so I haven't installed the core packs for testing
<kgoetz> hi all. whats the best practice for tellin gpeople to edit files? someone just pointed out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide#check uses 'gksudo gedit' to edit files. someone in #kubuntu was trying to install gksudo and gedit to be able to fllow the guide :)
<Flannel> kgoetz: For them, they should use kdesu kate
<kgoetz> Flannel: yes, i know. but how do you say that in guides? do you say 'or in kubuntu blah' or is there a page to link to?
<Flannel> kgoetz: And for xubuntu, gksu mousepad, hmm, its difficult to be specific enough to not be confusing to users, but vague enough to allow that sort of stuff.
<kgoetz> Flannel: which is why i thought there might be a page :/
<Flannel> kgoetz: I know for installing, they usually use "Any Method" for installing (synaptic, adept, apt-get, etc)
<Flannel> But, I can't seem to find that page.
<kgoetz> hm
<Flannel> but, perhaps its time we make a page like that for editors as well
<Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware I guess is the one.  And there's also a note here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
 * Flannel realises he's in -doc
<kgoetz> hehe
<ubotu> New bug: #205408 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package ubuntu-docs 8.03.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205408
<mdke> popey: the shuttle I showed you. It seems to work great.
<popey> cool
<ubotu> New bug: #205456 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package ubuntu-docs 8.03.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 134" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205456
<kgoetz> hm. dupe.
<mdke> not so sure
<mdke> that one looks rather different
<mdke> it's slightly worrying, that's the third bug I think we've had on failing to upgrade.
<mdke> maybe something is wrong with scrollkeeper
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-16
<vlad> I found a problem on the documentation relating to upgrading from 8.04 to 8.10. on http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading using the alternate CD. The command typed into the Alt+F2 should be gksu "sh /media.cdrom0/cdromupgrade"  the same applies for kubuntu. This is where the iso was mounted so that's why the command is what I wrote and not the one that is there right now.
<vlad> I meant /media/cdrom0/cdromupgrade
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-17
<cactaur> Hey, is someone here familiar with the Debugging X (Namely backtracing) pages? I'm trying to track down an X bug, and there was a small inconsistency I found in the docs which caused it to get away from me one more time. I was wondering if I could run my change by with an expert on it.
<cactaur> Well, I have to go, but I changed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing in case anyone wants to make sure I didn't make a bad change.
<nixternal> jjesse: wow man, there is quite a bit of work to be done with the docs yet...i am hoping to get most of them fixed up this week
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-18
<mni> i want to test my po translated files and test it in kubuntu.any help?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-19
<j1mc> mdke: are you around?
<j1mc> hi all
<j1mc> mdke: are you around?
<j1mc> we have an issue with xubuntu docs, whereby basically the packaging of xubuntu docs results in a conflict with ubuntu docs.  i should have foreseen this, but i didn't.  we are considering packaging the documentation converted to html, and wanted to see if you thought that would be easier than modifying the build process to create yelp-compatible docs.
<j1mc> brb
<mdke> j1mc: sounds tricky
<mdke> j1mc: how does the conflict arise?
<j1mc> mdke: the conflict arises in that the debian/build instructions basically tell the build process to build the docs in the same spot as the ubuntu docs.
<j1mc> which, of course, makes sense
<j1mc> moreover, when yelp and ubuntu docs are installed, just opening yelp opens the ubuntu docs (i think... it at least opens gnome documentation).
<j1mc> i was thinking that just building out the html might be a better approach, but i'm not sure how difficult this would be, either.
<j1mc> it would essentially involve creating a local copy of help.ubuntu.com, but the url's converted to be local file copies specific to xubuntu.
<mdke> j1mc: that's a bit silly to install them in the same spot as the ubuntu-docs
<mdke> j1mc: you should just install them somewhere else, in any event you'll need to patch yelp, right?
<j1mc> mdke: understood.  i'm not really a build-file master, though.
<j1mc> mdke: would patching yelp be difficult to do?
<mdke> j1mc: i don't know, but haven't you been intending to do it since the beginning of this release cycle?
<j1mc> to be honest, i didn't know that a patch would be necessary.  sorry i'm not the most advanced with these kinds of things.
<mdke> I thought that was the point of you having a new branch
<j1mc> the point of having the new branch was to use yelp, that's correct, but i didn't know that a patch on yelp would be necessary.
<mdke> argh.
<j1mc> yeah.  :/
<mdke> ok, I suppose if you had all the same documents as ubuntu-docs, then they could be installed in the same place and yelp would use them instead. I don't know if even that would work
<mdke> but it's truly ugly as a solution
<j1mc> right - especially in that ubuntu docs and xubuntu docs would now conflict
<mdke> that's not really going to work, I don't think
<j1mc> and both are part of the overall *-desktop metapackage for ubuntu and xubuntu
<mdke> because the idea is that people can run different desktops at the same time
<j1mc> yes
<mdke> I think what you'll need to do is to have a yelp-xubuntu package or similar and patch it to point at the xubuntu docs. Even that might be quite tricky
<mdke> at this stage in the release cycle I'd recommend doing whatever you did last release cycle...
<j1mc> going back and updating the original package?
<j1mc> ... the original branch?  you really think that building out the html would be too difficult at this point?
<mdke> well, how did you ship the documents in the last release? as html?
<j1mc> yes - do you recall the "docs that aren't valid docbook, but work together as a large meta-document"?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> so why don't you do the same again?
<mdke> with your new branch
<j1mc> hmm... the current branch has ghelp links in there.  would the fix-urls.sh script convert them into something that would work in the same way?  i don't think it would.
<j1mc> that script just converts the ghelp links for publishing help.ubuntu.com, right?
<mdke> yes, the idea of th fix-urls.sh script is to convert ghelp links into regular html links. But you would have to look at the script and ensure that it covers all of your links
<mdke> I'm sure you could adapt it
<j1mc> right
<mdke> ok, I have to go now
<mdke> see you
<j1mc> i would just have to modify my <xincludes...> links in my initial start page of the meta-document, i think.
<j1mc> thanks, mdke.
<j1mc> i'll look into it.
<mdke> good luck!
<j1mc> thanks :)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-20
<j1mc> mdke: i've moved over the debian folder and some of the libs from the prior versoin of xubuntu docs.  i'm working through things, getting things to validate.  there's some breakage now, but i think this approach is going to work.  thanks for your help, and for making that suggestion.
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-21
<Flannel> Erm... Where do we go to file corrections to pages that are in the whole server guide process?
<Flannel> The LAMP page, under Using Apache, recommends 'sudo nautilus', obviously that should be gksu nautilus
<Flannel> Well, and a proper write up of safe usage of /var/www should be added as well.  But that's ancillary.
<mdke> Flannel: filing bugs or submitting patches, or both, is the best way
#ubuntu-doc 2009-03-22
<j1mc> w00t - my docs validate, but still more work to do.
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-22
<Zatta> Hello!
<Zatta>  I saw an inconsistence among documentation pages on installing Ubuntu. Anyone available to discuss this topic?
<trijntje> hi all, is it true that the 'basic-commands' documentation of kubuntu is completely different from the documentation in ubuntu? Because the kubuntu-version shows as untranslated in LP, while the ubuntu-version is fully translated
<jamdatadude> hello, I'm in the process of going through all the required steps
<jamdatadude> are most of the efforts focused around the beta or should I work on current ubuntu documentation
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-23
<Mathuin> Hello!  I noticed a small bug in a wiki page, so I registered on launchpad, read the Wiki Guide, and still have a question or two. :-)
<mvngu_> Mathuin: Cool! Good to know about a bug report.
<Mathuin> Should I file a formal bug report if I'm willing to actually implement the change?
<Mathuin> (I can totally see why for tracking purposes.)
<mvngu_> Mathuin: Is it just a bug on a wiki page?
<Mathuin> Yes.
<mvngu_> Mathuin: Oh. In that case, you could just login with your wiki account and fix the bug.
<Mathuin> Okay.  The page doesn't have a page discussion page so I couldn't talk about my fix there.
<mvngu_> Mathuin: Before you save your chages, there is a small textbox to record your fix.
<Mathuin> In the manner of a commit message?
<mvngu_> Mathuin: Something like that.
<Mathuin> Okay.
<Mathuin> I made my change.  Woo! :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-24
<nixternal> hey, I just noticed an incorrect sentence in ubuntu-docs, hardware.xml. @line 390:  "accessing and storing files would be impossible." when speaking about filesystems. By not having a filesystem, you can still write to the disk in raw mode...just an fyi, it isn't murder if you keep it
<nixternal> mdke: ^^ or any other ubuntu-docs committer
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-25
<r2q2> Hi everybody
<mdke> nixternal: noted, thanks
<mdke> nixternal: how would you amend the sentence, just delete it?
<nixternal> mdke: s/impossible/difficult without experience/ or just difficult
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-26
<mdke> nixternal: thanks will take a look
<AtomicSpark> #ubuntu-docs are lies!
<AtomicSpark> Also, how are the docs coming for Lucid? Anything that needs some help?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-27
<AtomicSpark> What's the proper way to mark bugs as wishlist? I wouldn't mind weeding out a few feature requests.
#ubuntu-doc 2010-03-28
<DarkwingDuck> Anyone from the doc team going to UDS that we know of?
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: I went to the last one, as did Milo Casagrande.
<j1mc> Kyle N. from Canonical was there, too.
<j1mc> I'm not sure who is planning to go to this one.
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: will you go?
<DarkwingDuck> I was thinking about it but, it being in Brussels I don't think i will have the $$
<j1mc> yeah
<DarkwingDuck> I just moved from California USA to Mississippi USA so, I'm a bit tapped out
<DarkwingDuck> I really want to go though.
<j1mc> yeah
<DarkwingDuck> I missed the one in Dallas and i've been kicking myself for it
<j1mc> did you apply for sponsorship?
<DarkwingDuck> No
<j1mc> yeah... maybe next time apply. :)  i don't think a lot of doc-team people apply.
<j1mc> i know you did a lot of work this cycle... maybe you could go to the next uds.
<DarkwingDuck> I think I will for 11.04
<DarkwingDuck> Kubuntu membership meeting this week
<DarkwingDuck> waiting to hear back about the commiters team. I love doc work too
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> i'm glad richard johnson requested commit access for you.
<DarkwingDuck> Richard has been awesome to work with
<Rocket2DMn> DarkwingDuck, i've been wanting to go to UDS for a long time.  I could get sponsorship, but i can't take the time :(
<DarkwingDuck> Rocket2DMn: I have the vacation days with my job, I'll store up and go for 11.04
<Rocket2DMn> I technically could take vacation and go, but i really need to save that time to see family and whatnot
<DarkwingDuck> yeah, US Navy gives me good time off
<Rocket2DMn> sounds like you've been doing a great job with the kubuntu-docs, congrats on getting nominated for -committers, i'm sure you'll get it
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks Rocket2DMn. i'm up for Kubuntu Membership this week too
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> prior to my "i need to take a break," moment, i had booked a spot at a doc conference.  shaunm (from gnome) and i went, and demonstrated mallard.
<j1mc> we got some good feedback on it... not so much technical feedback, but people were pretty receptive to it.
<Rocket2DMn> DarkwingDuck, i think you'll probably get that, too
<DarkwingDuck> Last weekend? j1mc?
<DarkwingDuck> Rocket2DMn: I hope so. I'm a bit nervious
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, that's cool, I don't think I would go to any doc conferences though.  I don't do documentaiton professionally and it's a pretty narrow focus
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: yeah.  there are some proprietary-only type topics, but it is spread out enough so that you can avoid that stuff if you want.
<pleia2> fwiw, I would be very happy to chat with some doc people there
<j1mc> plus, there are some xml/xsl nerds there, so it is good to get to talk to those types.
<DarkwingDuck> Rich was impressed with Mallard... I think Kubuntu is going to merge over at some point
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting, I just wouldn't be able to take that kind of time and money.  If only there was more time to do the stuff that interested you...
<Rocket2DMn> oh and hey pleia2 :)
<DarkwingDuck> Hey pleia2
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: I went to my first uds in november because of the time thing, but now my boss saw how beneficial it was so he's letting me go more :)
<pleia2> err, didn't go to one before that because of time
<pleia2> unfortunately I guess I don't see that being the case for your job
<pleia2> darn US and our meager vacation time
<Rocket2DMn> that's great pleia2 !
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, wouldn't happen for me...
<j1mc> shaun mccance has a writeup on the conference: http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm
<pleia2> anyway, I applied for sponsorship so hopefully me (ubuntu-learning) will meet up with benjamin (ubuntu-manual) and I contacted jonathan jesse after some sad posts about the forgotten docs team
<pleia2> ben and I at least will get together at uds, hopefully some doc people too (not sure if nixternal is coming)
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, jon is in here - jjesse
<j1mc> me no likey ubuntu manual
<pleia2> oh yes, good :)
 * nixternal isn't coming
<pleia2> j1mc: I know, much bad blood between the teams
<pleia2> nixternal: argh, we will never meet!
<pleia2> ;)
<nixternal> sure we will
<Rocket2DMn> hehe, ahh the ubuntu-manual project...
<pleia2> you should visit SF!
<nixternal> i can do just as much work remotely than being at UDS, and I have been a couple of times, time to let new people go and enjoy the excitement
<j1mc> i love how there are free software people to visit anywhere you go.  :)
<nixternal> j1mc: come visit me!
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: I'm sort of trying to mend the ties, as quixotic as it might be :)
<j1mc> nixternal: hehe
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, i'll let you know when i'm back in norcal, could be awhile though :(
<nixternal> or I will just hop in the car and be over at your place in 30 minutes :D
<j1mc> nixternal: i'm at pumping station one
<nixternal> oh you ass
<nixternal> you could have told me something was going on there tonight
<nixternal> I would have gone
<j1mc> lo siento
<pleia2> haha
<DarkwingDuck> pleia2: I'll be up in NorCal in the beginning of may... wouldn't mind meeting you, jono and grantbow for coffee
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: that'd be great!
 * Rocket2DMn is jealous
<Rocket2DMn> so pleia2 is norcal everything you hoped?
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: yes, I adore it here :)
<DarkwingDuck> pleia2: I'll let you guys know when I'm up there.
<pleia2> miss philly a bit, but I survive
<DarkwingDuck> I already miss San Diego
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, i have yet to comeup with a good response when people ask me why i left
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: I am not sure there is any response that can sufficiently explain moving from jersey from california, sorry :)
<pleia2> er, to jersey
<Rocket2DMn> CA->PA->NJ
<pleia2> keep getting worse!
<Rocket2DMn> who knows where i'll be in a year...
<pleia2> ;)
<pleia2> florida?
<pleia2> hehe
<Rocket2DMn> god's waiting room
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> yeah, at least florida has an active loco
<pleia2> last I knew the team lead for jersey had stepped down
<Rocket2DMn> that's mean, FL isn't a bad place, it's really great to be there in January, drinking tequila on the beach
<pleia2> I guess I've mostly just been to the swamps
<Rocket2DMn> i haven't seen a single email on the NJ mailing list
<Rocket2DMn> i kinda wonder if my registration is setup correctly
<pleia2> it's not very noisy
<Rocket2DMn> oh well, we sorta digressed
<pleia2> right! we're supposed to talk about how to bring love to the doc team <3
<Rocket2DMn> i was kinda hoping for more help during the lucid cycle for the docs
<Rocket2DMn> i cant maintain the level of contribution, hopefully somebody will step up and start patching bugs
<Rocket2DMn> we need some fresh blood :)
 * pleia2 nods
<Rocket2DMn> i dont mean to say i didnt get any help, we did have one or two community members provide some patches, i hope they keep itup
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: make sure you let people know that you want additional help.
<pleia2> then I can certainly imagine how frustating it can be to watch volunteers flock to -manual
<j1mc> sometimes people will not step up because they think that someone else is handling it
<pleia2> j1mc: that's certainly the impression I get from people WRT the doc team
<pleia2> that and "the wiki is so out of date" "maybe you can add to it when you figure out your issue?" *apathy*
<pleia2> sigh :)
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, i sent out some emails around december but didnt really get any bites
<Rocket2DMn> i dont blog, so i'm not putting anything on planet
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, the wiki is always out of date, there is too much stuff there and not enough expertise
 * pleia2 nods
<mvngu_> With a project the size of Ubuntu, a beginner can feel overwhelmed.
<Rocket2DMn> working on the wiki can be fun, that's wher ei started with documentation, but it can be like doing continuous damage control
<Rocket2DMn> yes mvngu_ that is definitely true
<mvngu_> Having mentors is a real plus.
<pleia2> you guys having a meeting in the near future?
<Rocket2DMn> the Beginners Team has done a good job over the last couple years at helping beginners and helping those interested in contributing involved in different areas of the community
<Rocket2DMn> there are some members in this room now who started on that team and got involved with documentation
<DarkwingDuck> I'm a product of Ubuntu Beginners
<DarkwingDuck> Actually, put my name up for BT Membership
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: yay :)
<DarkwingDuck> :D It's where I started in Ubuntu. Then Docs with the Kubuntu guys
<DarkwingDuck> THAT turned into quite the task for Lucid
<mvngu_> Just to give a sense of what a beginner such as myself feels:
<mvngu_> I started editing some parts of the wiki.
<mvngu_> In particular, went through the whole style guide. Made some stylistic clean-ups.
<mvngu_> After finishing that, I asked myself, "What next?"
<mvngu_> So here I am, stuck, no knowing where to go from the style guide onwards.
<Rocket2DMn> mvngu_, fix these pages: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex
<Rocket2DMn> ;)
<DarkwingDuck> Rocket2DMn: You work on the Wiki worrect?
<DarkwingDuck> s/worrect/correct
<mvngu_> Rocket2DMn: Is there an algorithm to prioritize the work?
<mvngu_> Rocket2DMn: :-)
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<Rocket2DMn> we invented tags about 1.5 years ago to help mark pages that need attention.  Not all pages that need work are tagged, but it's a start
<pleia2> that's great
<Rocket2DMn> as for which need priority in a given category, that is up to contributors to decide
<pleia2> I had seen these on the wiki but didn't know anything about them :)
<Rocket2DMn> anything with material that seems like it would be used regularly is worth fixing for sure
<DarkwingDuck> Rocket2DMn: Is there a standard for adding into the wiki the way to accomplish the same in either k/x/l ubuntu?
<Rocket2DMn> DarkwingDuck, in general, material is for Ubuntu - it is often cross compatible.  I don't think there is a standard
<Rocket2DMn> Kubuntu has a wiki site, but I think it uses material direct from the main ubuntu community docs
<DarkwingDuck> It is. That is why I was asking
<DarkwingDuck> This is why I was asking if I'm going through and find something to add at the bottem with a note at the top "For Kubuntu Users Click Here" and it goes to an internal link to a added section
<DarkwingDuck> Ok, I'm seeing double. I'm off to bed guys
<mvngu_> DarkwingDuck: Good night.
<Rocket2DMn> see ya DarkwingDuck
<j1mc> hasta la pasta, all
<ZachK_> Meeting still going?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-24
<j1mc> hi all
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-25
<j1mc> hi all
#ubuntu-doc 2011-03-26
<zkriesse> Anyone here?
<czajkowski> for those interested in documentation
<czajkowski> http://twitter.com/#!/dexyit/status/51589903460466688
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-19
<Sifrazooy> is any body here :D
<benonsoftware> Yes Sifrazooy ?
<Sifrazooy> where i can find the panels documentations and mouse right click functions documentations
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware:  i am really new to development on linux and want to start making some difference but i am not able to find a nice documentation after all :(
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware: man are you with me :S or you don't know the answer to my question ?
<benonsoftware> Oh, sorry, I was just doing a quick job
<benonsoftware> tbh I am not really sure what you are looking for
<benonsoftware> Dev docs or what?
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware: dev docs
<benonsoftware> Well http://developer.ubuntu.com/ is a good website
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware:  considering an advice do you advice me to develop this app for kubuntu or ubuntu
<benonsoftware> Sifrazooy: I'm so sorry, I really have to leave now
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware:  which one of them have more support , easy documentations to start with
<Sifrazooy> benonsoftware:  ok :D thnx
<bencer_> hi all, i asked a couple of days ago on ubuntu-doc mailing list if its possible to add images to the server-guide
<bencer_> anybody has an answer for that?
<Sifrazooy> where i can find the panels documentations and mouse right click functions documentations
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-20
<littlegirl> Hey there, I'm probably doing pulling and committing and all that in the wrong order, and as a result I've run into a snag where my copy diverges from the one on the server. Here's what I've got: http://paste.ubuntu.com/891753/ Any help with what I should do next so that I can push my commit without messing up jjesse's commits would be appreciated. (:
<littlegirl> Hey there, I'm probably doing pulling and committing and all that in the wrong order, and as a result I've run into a snag where my copy diverges from the one on the server. Here's what I've got: http://paste.ubuntu.com/891753/ Any help with what I should do next so that I can push my commit without messing up jjesse's commits would be appreciated. (:
<littlegirl> Hey there, I'm probably doing pulling and committing and all that in the wrong order, and as a result I've run into a snag where my copy diverges from the one on the server. Here's what I've got: http://paste.ubuntu.com/891753/ Any help with what I should do next so that I can push my commit without messing up jjesse's commits would be appreciated. (:
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-21
<jbicha_> hmm, I just sat down to take screenshots for the 12.04 docs, but then I just realized we never got the default wallpaper yet :(
<jbicha_> yeah, that Docs Freeze won't be happening Thursday
<bkerensa> jbicha_: I got the e-mail.... Do we have wiki to do list so we can track who is working on what?
<jbicha_> bkerensa: hi, no but we do now :) http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo
<jbicha_> well & there's also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks but it's outdated
<bkerensa> jbicha_: Also per your e-mail it does seem important that we have the new wallpaper soon for screens?
<jbicha_> that's my opinion, but I'm sure it'll be a priority tomorrow now that I complained about it
<bkerensa> jbicha_: I love how that works :)
<bkerensa> jbicha_: I will go ahead and note stuff on the pad that I intend to work on
<jbicha_> awesome, thanks
<bkerensa> hopefully we can get this out the door soon after the scheduled freeze
<bkerensa> jbicha_: am I submitting my merges for you to review?
<jbicha_> I'll push a blog post as soon as I get an idea of how much time we have for contributions
<jbicha_> you can propose merges against lp:ubuntu-docs or you can email patches to the docs list, whichever works better for you
<bkerensa> k
<bkerensa> jbicha_: is there any wysiwyg editor for mallard?
<jbicha_> bkerensa: no, gedit works well
<jbicha_> http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/files/2012/01/mallardcheatsheet.png
<jbicha_> also, you might want to hang out in #docs on irc.gnome.org it's more active than this channel
<jbicha_> that's a condensed version of http://projectmallard.org/
<jbicha_> oh, actually there is an almost wysiwyg editor
<jbicha_> yelp 3.3 now automatically refreshes pages when you save them
<jbicha_> more like quick preview than wysiwyg I guess
<peppe84> Hi. Italian team have revampet it's help portal. Are you interested in our asset? See example: http://37.9.231.137/www/legal.html
<jbicha_> dpm: howdy
<dpm> hey jbicha_, I was just replying to your last e-mail :)
<jbicha_> oh ok
<jbicha_> I did try looking for you on Monday but I guess you had the day off
<dpm> yeah, it was bank holiday here
<dpm> jbicha_, I'll ask the question on the mailing list too, but now that you're here and if you've got 5 mins for me: could you tell me, roughly, how will the docs change if you guys get an extra week? I'm trying to find out which pages might be subject to "soft freeze" as you mention, and in particular which Unity-related mallard pages might be added or modified
<jbicha_> dpm: it depends on how much time we have, I don't think the translators should have less than 2 weeks
<jbicha_> if we can use the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline instead, then there's a little bit of room to work with
<dpm> jbicha_, yeah, I agree. On a conversation on #ubuntu-release, it seems that the release team would agree on that too. The only question is whether you guys could do the fetching of translations and upload by LanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<jbicha_> this is a rough brainstrom I put together last night of some of the things that would be nice to have: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo
<jbicha_> dpm: fetching translations and uploading isn't too complicated, is it?
<dpm> wow, good work on the pad, that looks good!
<dpm> I've added a note on translated screenshots
<jbicha_> thanks, should have been doing this sooner, but Desktop team stuff is interesting to me too & has kept me busy
<dpm> :)
<dpm> jbicha_, fetching translations is not complicated at all, it's just not very automatic, as you need to request the export from Launchpad, wait for an e-mail with an url to download translations, and then ensure that they are put in the right places in the tree
<dpm> as per the upload, I believe that for someone experienced in packaging it shouldn't be complex, either
<dpm> wrt translations you just need to ensure that the translated docs are built from the .po files, but I guess this happens automatically during the build
<jbicha_> ok, mdke usually handles that, but I'd like to learn more
<jbicha_> the Docs team generally has been too busy to do much documenting of our own practices
<dpm> I think there was some documentation about that on the wiki, but I'm not sure if it's up to date. Let me see if I can find it
<jbicha_> like I use meld to merge from GNOME, but I think most people haven't even used meld
<dpm> I do, meld is awesome!
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
<dpm> but it seems it's not yet been updated with Mallard info
<jbicha_> dpm: oh, and also I've been wondering how easy it is to fix a typo without forcing translators to re-translate that string
<dpm> jbicha_, it is possible, it just requires some extra work:
<dpm> 1. Fix the typo on the docs
<dpm> 2. Apply the same fix to the .pot file and all the .po files
<dpm> 3. Upload
<jbicha_> ok, I'll give that a try next time & just ping you if I get stuck
<dpm> sure, just ping me any time
<jbicha_> dpm: so if we froze docs on Tuesday, that should give 3 weeks to translators
<jbicha_> maybe the following weekend we might make some more changes but submit a Doc Freeze Exception bug to go with it
<jbicha_> which will give Release Team & Translators the chance to approve or reject
<jbicha_> & that will be at the 2 week limit which I see as a hard deadline
<dpm> jbicha_, right, 3 weeks would sound about right, assuming we're pushing the translation deadline too as discussed. I would keep the new freeze to be on a Thursday as usual, which should give you a couple of extra days
<jbicha_> well, I'll be swamped next Tues-Thursday for the conference we're putting on (posscon.org)
<jbicha_> & the nice thing about a Mon or Tues freeze is we can still make Beta 2
<MrChrisDruif> Hi everyone, does anyone know what is already documented about LightDM?
<bkerensa> MrChrisDruif: Have you grabbed the ubuntu-doc branch?
<jbicha_> MrChrisDruif: ubuntu-help/C/shell-guest-session.page is all we got
<jbicha_> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/precise/view/head:/ubuntu-help/C/shell-guest-session.page
<MrChrisDruif> bkerensa; nope
<jbicha_> I think it needs a gsettings override to disable the guest session in 12.04
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah probably, but I was looking for more user orientated docs
<MrChrisDruif> Like "How do I switch to a different session"
<MrChrisDruif> help.ubuntu.com kind of stuff ^_^
<jbicha_> MrChrisDruif: are you looking for help or are you looking to help? :)
<MrChrisDruif> I am looking for help ;-)
<jbicha_> MrChrisDruif: you just click the little icon next to your name to switch sessions
<jbicha_> anyway, I've got to go
<MrChrisDruif> TTYL jbicha_
<skaet> Hi everyone,  was looking at schedules trying to jugging things for the requested Documentation Freeze Exception and found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule,  which is a little out of date right now ;).   Would anyone mind if I go and update it to what we're looking at in Precise right now?  or does someone want to volunteer to take the first pass, and I'll add the tweaks in later?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-22
<mhall119> jbicha: ping
<jbicha> mhall119: good evening
<mhall119> good evening
<mhall119> jbicha: I'm updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule, but now I'm all confused about what the schedule should actually be
<mhall119> got a minute to help me?
<jbicha> mhall119: sure
<mhall119> jbicha: so we're currently on week 23, is there anything that needs to be done this week?
<jbicha> mhall119: yes...PANIC!... but I think I've already taken care of that one :)
<mhall119> cool, I'll leave that off then
<jbicha> mhall119: you're talking about to get added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule ?
<mhall119> jbicha: yes, I'm trying to get it to reflect the new docs schedule
<jbicha> well next Monday or Tuesday, we need to make a new ubuntu-docs release & make sure the translations/pots files are available in LP for translators to work on them
<jbicha> I'm still a bit fuzzy on all the details of this, mdke usually handles releases
<mhall119> how about the week after?  Or is that the 2 weeks for translators to do their magic?
<jbicha> final release is April 26 with LanguagePackTranslation deadline on the 19th
<jbicha> right, I think translators should at least have 2 weeks to do their things as ubuntu-docs is huge
<jbicha> the Server Guide plans to freeze March 28, that was approved today
<jbicha> mhall119: thank for updating the wiki, I hadn't seen skaet's message when she originally posted it
<mhall119> jbicha: happy to help, does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule look correct now?
<jbicha> final release is April 26 with LanguagePackTranslation deadline on the 19th
<jbicha> NonLanguagePackTranslation deadline still applies to kubuntu-docs & I guess server guide
<jjesse> to be honest and a little sad not much has changed in kubuntu-docs this cycle due to a lack of people working on it
<jjesse> mostly very minor typos
<mhall119> jbicha: I'm in a little over my head here, so forgive me for making you spell it all out, but what should I put on the wiki for kubuntu-docs and server guide?
<mhall119> ubuntu-docs is a package?
<jbicha> mhall119: yes, it's a package & I get in over my head all the time :)
<mhall119> server guide has also asked for a freeze exception, I think they're on the same schedule as ubuntu-docs now
<jbicha> mhall119: yes basically; ubuntu-docs will need to release by ~Tuesday to get on the Beta 2 CDs though & the server guide will freeze on Wednesday
<jbicha> yeah, see also skaet's new email
<mhall119> jbicha: just read it
<skaet> jbicha, mhall119 - mail in response to original request sent.   We'll fit what's ready on the Beta CD, main focus is to get it nice and solid for release at this point.
<skaet> If you want to come in before the date I've put down, and get on the beta CD +1 from me.  ;)
<mhall119> skaet: jbicha: I *think* the current state of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule is correct now
<skaet> mhall119,  thanks for adding in the dates.   I'll tweak it a bit tomorrow, but its close enough now.   Thanks.
<skaet> :)
<mhall119> you're welcome
<jbicha> mdke: ping
<mdke> jbicha: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<hannie> jbicha, in http://jeremy.bicha.net/2012/03/22/ubuntu-docs-a-call-for-help/ I see: If you type help etc.
<hannie> Shouldn't this be Type yelp
<jbicha> hannie: both work :)
<hannie> ah, not in my Dash
<hannie> jbicha, not in the Dutch version that is
<jbicha> hannie: ah, we should use the new Keywords; field and the Dutch translators should use Help;
<hannie> Yes, the Dutch word for help is hulp. That is understood by Dash
<hannie> Maybe I should add more keywords in gnome-control-center, if that is where the keywords are located
<dpm> weird, "help" seems to work for me on a Catalan locale
<jbicha> hannie: keywords are located in each package, so it's yelp.desktop that needs to be improved
<hannie> jbicha, ok. Don't know why my Dash doesn't accept 'help'
<jbicha> hannie: on your system: /usr/share/applications/yelp.desktop doesn't have the word "help"
<hannie> jbicha, do you mean yelp.po?
<jbicha> if you modify that file, you'll also need to run sudo update-desktop-database
<hannie> ok, I'll give it a try.
<jbicha> I don't know much about translations but yes, you should submit that improvement to Launchpad and to GNOME
<hannie> Right, I translate for both Gnome and Ubuntu
<jbicha> it probably needs a blog post of its own too; maybe every .desktop should have Keywords; and translators should leave in a few English strings
<jbicha> that would be cool to be able to search in both English or Dutch
<hannie> jbicha, thanks for all your information. I will look into it
<hannie> dpm, thanks for your contribution as well
<dpm> hannie, no worries. How's the Dutch translation team doing?
<hannie> dpm, very well. We are working hard on Precise. There is a spurt this weekend
<hannie> *sprint that is
<dpm> cool :)
<dpm> you guys should blog about the sprint, I'm sure it would encourage other teams
<dpm> nice to see the untranslated strings going down -> http://91.189.93.77/stats/precise/nl :)
<hannie> dpm, ok, I will put it on the translators list
<dpm> good work!
<hannie> I will forward the compliment to my collegues ;)
<dpm> by all means ;)
<hannie> dpm, can I ask you something?
<dpm> hannie, sure, no need to ask permission to ask, just go for it :)
<hannie> How about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/255830
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 255830 in launchpad "translators who have only made non-accepted suggestions are listed in translation credits" [Low,Triaged]
<hannie> dpm, I think you have a good point here. I have a suggestion:
<dpm> actually, since I sent that bug I've changed my mind a bit :)
<hannie> ah, I just wanted to suggest to make string 2 editable, in that way translators with
<hannie> full rights can decide which names are put on the list
<hannie> #2 = "translator-credits"
<hannie> oh, I forgot to mention that I am talking about ubuntu-docs
<dpm> sorry, I'm being dragged into another discussion, let me answer in a few minutes
<hannie> No worries, it is not that important
<dpm> hannie, translator-credits were originally editable in Launchpad. I can't remember the exact reason why they were made non-editable, but I could think of it being a requirement for automatically filling them using message sharing. Unfortunately though, and being quite honest, the fact that the bug is marked as low effectively means it is not likely to be worked on by the LP developers
<hannie> dpm, that answer will do. I reported a bug on a similar subject recently. I'll see what priority it gets
<hannie> Thanks for you time. See you
<dpm> ok, no worries :)
<sladen> mdke, jbicha et al:  Could you draw you attention to the new (non-default) wallpapers)
<sladen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/933562
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 933562 in ubuntu-wallpapers "FFe: Upload Precise Ubuntu 12.04 LTS wallpapers " [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<sladen> these are still waiting on the high-res ones, but you can hopefully see what's on there from the linked flickr group
<sladen> could you possibly post to that but report that you're tollerant of the upload and that it is unlikely to affect (m)any screenshots as it would only be the Appearance control panel
<sladen> (if you're okay, can you put that on the bug report so that the release team know I'm not trying to pull a fast one)
<jbicha> sladen: looks good, done :)
<jbicha> mdke: do you think we should do a ubuntu-docs upload today?
<jbicha> that way translators can get started on the pages we mark as final
<Darkwing> Hey guys
<Darkwing> I'll have the Kubuntu docs ready to go before the 26 minutes deadline :)
<Darkwing> As soon as this stuff downloads. :)
<Darkwing> Well, this is fun.
<Darkwing> Anyone else having issues with xml2po not being able to write files?
<Darkwing> mdke: ping?
<mdke> Darkwing: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<Darkwing> mdke: You know if there were any changes to xml2po?
<Darkwing> mdke: It's whining about writing
<Darkwing> and yes, permissions are fine.
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-23
<shaunm> Darkwing: there hasn't been any real change to xml2po in over a year
<bkerensa> jbicha: How in-depth do we want to go on this privacy panel doc? Do we need a screenshot?
<dpm> hi jbicha, how's it going? Do you think you'll have time to update the status of the docs pages some time today? It'd be really helpful for us to know which pages we can start translating and which ones we should wait for until the new freeze
<jbicha> dpm: good morning, I was too exhausted yesterday and went to bed early, but yes it's at the top of my list
<dpm> awesome, thanks jbicha! Hopefully you're fully recovered after a good night sleep :)
<jbicha> dpm: yes I feel a lot better :)
<dpm> :-)
<jbicha> dpm: ok, should be done now, I'll send the email out later today
<dpm> brilliant, thanks a lot for your help jbicha, I really appreciate it!
<peppe84> hi. about ubuntu-docs. in this page javascipt doesn't work: http://37.9.231.137/build/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
<peppe84> this is a know issue?
<peppe84> peraphs seems that yelp-data-ui-expander class doesn't exist and also /js/main.js doesn't exist
<dpm> peppe84, how often do you update that website?
<peppe84> dpm, now
<dpm> peppe84, ok cool. But in general, how often it is updated? Is it done on a cron job that pulls the docs branch and rebuilds the html pages daily, or do you do that manually every now and then?
<peppe84> dpm, i have found the problem! so:
<peppe84> in ubuntu.xsl al line 712 replace main.js with yelp.js. also comment line 630
<peppe84> now it's work
<dpm> cool
<peppe84> here a demo http://37.9.231.137/build/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
<peppe84> I can propose a merge if you want
<dpm> peppe84, I'm not from the docs team, but I would suggest proposing a merge, yes
<dpm> peppe84, did you see my question earlier about how often the site is updated? ^^
<peppe84> dpm, i'll do.
<peppe84> dpm, i don't know. at this time I work on the new italian template: http://37.9.231.137/www/12.04/desktop/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
<jbicha> peppe84: are you running that site on Precise? some things in the Precise help require the new yelp-xsl I believe
<peppe84> jbicha, Hi :-) I build on a precise machine and yes: yelp-xsl is installed.
<jbicha> ok, I haven't tried building the html help for precise yet, you can submit a merge proposal about lp:ubuntu-docs if something on our end isn't working
<peppe84> jbicha, here you are :-) https://code.launchpad.net/~giuseppeterrasi/ubuntu-docs/fixjs/+merge/99068
<jbicha> cool, thanks, bye for now
<peppe84> bye :-)
<philipballew_> I want to take the Lubuntu documentation and make it available offline. Is there a easy way to do this?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-24
<bkerensa> jbicha: What standard are we trying to cover for the pribvacy panel doc? Just a well done description of the features of it or is it necessary to have a screen shot?
<jbicha> bkerensa: we don't have many screenshots at all in ubuntu-docs
<jbicha> screenshots take up some CD space & are just a bit harder to translate, but those aren't necessarily good reasons not to add more screenshots
<jbicha> hmm, the new default wallpaper didn't land yet, well here's hoping for Monday :(
<bkerensa> jbicha: Ok then I will just focus on a thorough overview of the privacy panel and features
<bkerensa> jbicha: I know right... :(
<jbicha> new one's supposed to have a little bit more blue in it, whatever that means
<jbicha> anyway, I'm heading out for a bit
<jbicha> back
<jbicha> bkerensa: do you have a multi-monitor setup
<bkerensa> jbicha: no multi-monitor
<jbicha> bkerensa: ah ok, I was just looking if someone wanted to review the dual-monitor page
<littlegirl> Hey there, do you guys have a preference between "filesystem" and "file system" in the Ubuntu documentation?
<jbicha> HUD article written, it definitely needs a screenshot though
#ubuntu-doc 2012-03-25
<peppe84> please see this or loco team can have problem durin building a translation version of serverguide:
<peppe84> https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+bug/964499
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 964499 in serverguide "warning relate dm-multipath.xml. fix path or this page are not include in translate version" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<littlegirl> Hey there, do you guys have a preference between "filesystem" and "file system" in the Ubuntu documentation?
 * MrChrisDruif would say file system or file-system, seeing it doesn't give an error with my spellchecker
<MrChrisDruif> Where can I report bugs with ubuntu-wiki?
<MrChrisDruif> More specifically ubuntu-wiki subscriptions?
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Thanks, although I'd like to find out where the Ubuntu or Kubuntu team stands on it.
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: What kind of bugs? Bugs with the wiki interface itself, or with the content that's been put into it?
<MrChrisDruif> littlegirl; more with a subscription I "apparently" have. I was subscribed to "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide" before the change with login procedure (SSO ?)
<MrChrisDruif> However, I don't want that one anymore, but I still get it in my mailbox
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Have you tried going into your settings or preferences to sort it out?
<MrChrisDruif> Yes
<MrChrisDruif> It's not listed with my Subscriptions in Preferences/Settings
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: What if you go to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide and check the settings there?
 * littlegirl is blindly guessing at this point.
<MrChrisDruif> Edit Info *Subscribe* Attachments etc..
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: What happens if you click Subscribe?
<MrChrisDruif> However, I've only just deleted an email with an update for that page
<MrChrisDruif> I've clicked Subscribe and after that Unsubscribe, but still I get the messages ^_^
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: What
<littlegirl> s the message?
<MrChrisDruif> What has been changed aka a diff message
<littlegirl> I'm clicking on Subscribe on that page to see what happens for me.
<littlegirl> Mine says, "You have been subscribed to this page."
<MrChrisDruif> "[Ubuntu Wiki] Update of "DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide" by dsmythies"
<MrChrisDruif> Was the topic of the last email from that page
<littlegirl> And the Subscribe link changed to Unsubscribe.
<littlegirl> Is that what happens for you?
<MrChrisDruif> Yes ^_^
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: What would you like to see happen?
<MrChrisDruif> That I don't get updates from that page anymore! ^_^
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Do you mean if you Subscribe, you don't get notified?
<MrChrisDruif> No, I think we've got a case of bad communication here.
<MrChrisDruif> I *was* subscribed to that page before the switch to the Single-Sign-On login method.
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Okay.
<MrChrisDruif> But now I can't *unsubscribe* from that page
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Hmmm, that is a slightly different issue. (:
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, yeah I know
<littlegirl> I'm not sure if you'd file that with MoinMoin or with Ubuntu. Probably both.
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Have you tried making a change to the page? I see a place that could use a comma if you want to do a small change. (:
<MrChrisDruif> I guess I'll just get an email that I've changed the page, but sure
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Maybe it needs to reestablish who you are now that you're logging in differently. (:
<MrChrisDruif> BRB
<littlegirl> MrChrisDruif: Okay.
<jbicha> littlegirl: palimpsest, the GNOME disk utility and installed by default on Ubuntu, says "file system"
<littlegirl> jbicha: Thank you - good enough for me! (:
<littlegirl> jbicha: Are you on the documentation team?
<Darkwing> Is anyone else haivng issues with xml2po or, an I the only one?
<Darkwing> and has anyone heard from mdke?
<Darkwing> jbicha: ping
<jbicha> littlegirl: yes, I work on the Ubuntu side mostly
<Darkwing> jbicha: You guys are still using xml2po right?
<jbicha> Darkwing: I saw mdke comment on the mailing list but besides that I haven't talked to him in a while
<jbicha> Darkwing: hmm, from my email months ago, I said itstool C/*.page -o ubuntu-help.pot would work, so I guess not
<Darkwing> jbicha: What are you guys going to do to get them to translations? SRU?
<jbicha> I think we'll be doing SRUs to fix some things this time, yes
<Darkwing> How did you guys ship to rosetta?
<Darkwing> Or, have you yet?
<jbicha> we haven't yet, let me try uploading it manually
<jbicha> I don't have upload rights to the ubuntu-docs package yet
 * Darkwing rubs eyes.
<jbicha> ok, I think I set it up, let's wait and see if the import works like it's supposed to
<Darkwing> With the .po?
<Darkwing> and do you guys upload just ubuntu-docs or, ubuntu, xubuntu, server and kubuntu still?
<jbicha> I generated the pot & bzr commit; bzr push then I told https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs to do automatic import & export for Precise
<jbicha> then I hit the configure translations button to make precise the current focus but that isn't doing anything yet because I guess the import hasn't run yet
<Darkwing> I can't get xml2po to write the .pos
<Darkwing> the .po files
<jbicha> Darkwing: this looks a bit dated, but did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
<jbicha> at the bottom of the page
<jbicha> ok, the ubuntu-docs import seemed to work
<Darkwing> yeah, I'm getting an error from xml2po that it cannot write the .po files.
<Darkwing> I'll keep working on it.
<jbicha> do you want to post the errors?
<Darkwing> http://paste.kde.org/446336/
<Darkwing> Same script that worked last year.
<Darkwing> Rather, last cycle
<jbicha> hmm do you really want multiple pots like that? we just use one for ubuntu-docs
<Darkwing> We are using docbook.
<Darkwing> not mallard so, we need the multible files. :)
<jbicha> oh ok, I've been lucky & done nearly all mallard
<Darkwing> Aye, you have.
<Darkwing> But what I can't figure out...
<Darkwing> littlegirl: ping
 * jbicha sees if he can summon shaunm to help
<Darkwing> jbicha: Try something...
<Darkwing> bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs
<Darkwing> cd DOCS FOLDER
<Darkwing> sh scripts/create_pot.sh
<Darkwing> jbicha: are you running precise or Oneiric?
<jbicha> Darkwing: precise, oneiric's too boring for me ;)
<Darkwing> Nevermind then... don't do that.
<Darkwing> I want to see if this is going to be one of the bash scripts that kernel 3.2.*borks
<jbicha> xml2po -e -o docs/${x}/po/${x}.pot docs/${x}/C/*.xml
<jbicha> that still got errors, but I think that might be a bit closer
<Darkwing> xml2po cannot write the .pot files anymore... I wonder what happened...
<jbicha> adding the missing docs/ to that line
<Darkwing> No, it's finding the xml files but, it wont write the .po files anymore...
<jbicha> Darkwing: but it worked better with that change I think, http://paste.kde.org/446354/
<Darkwing> Aye, it did...
<Darkwing> gimme a sec...
<Darkwing> Thanks jbicha I think that worked. :D
 * jbicha turns off the shaunm bat signal :)
<jbicha> were the Kubuntu docs reorganized this cycle?
<littlegirl> So is it working fine now?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-03-23
<vibhav> Is there a raring branch for lp:ubuntu-docs?
<trijntje> Hi all, does anybody know what the status of kubuntu-docs is? The last message about them to the ubuntu translators list was that translations would not be shipped
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-17
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> I'd like to add a feature in unity-control-center after the feature freeze
<hikiko> because we got some feedback at uds
<hikiko> and decided to add one more option for the user
<hikiko> anyone available?
<knome> we're listening :)
<hikiko> hi knome :)
<hikiko> well, I added a slider that scales the unity desktop some weeks ago
<pleia2> hikiko: docs freeze is on the 20th, when will your feature land?
<knome> (and is there a FFe approved yet?)
<hikiko> well, the designers will give me the details tomorrow morning
<hikiko> and I will be able to tell for sure how many days I need
<hikiko> but I think that I can finish that before the end of the week
<hikiko> and hopefully before the 20th
<knome> is the feature something you could theoretically document yourself?
<hikiko> i think so
<hikiko> it's just a widget that
<knome> i guess the optimal way would be to land the change before 20th and do a merge request for the docs at the same time
<hikiko> scales the apps (changes the gnome desktop scaling-factor)
<knome> that way the docs team would only need to approve that and get it in with the regular docs uploads
<hikiko> according to the ui-scale we use to scale the desktop on unity
<hikiko> ok knome
<hikiko> but
<hikiko> there's a probability
<hikiko> that I don't finish it before the 20th
<hikiko> in this case
<hikiko> is there anything
<hikiko> I could do?
<hikiko> (my plan is to finish it on time, just asking)
<knome> in that case, we will need a exception for the docstringfreeze, and a separate upload
<hikiko> ok :)
<knome> the least you should do is file that exception request, but ideally, it would be cool if you know an uploader who could do the separate upload
<knome> if not, then it will need to go to the sponsors queue if no uploader from the docs team seems to be available
<knome> i guess the release team can help with that if the situation looks really bad
<knome> but i'm sure we all hope stuff lands before thursday
<hikiko> yes, that would be the best
<knome> thanks for being in touch, and feel free to ask for more help if needed
<hikiko> thank you knome :) I will ask you again, if we have any delays
<knome> sure
<knome> good luck :)
<hikiko> thanks :D
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-19
<knome> is somebody about to update all packages for ubuntu for the docstringfreeze or will i need to find an uploader?
<knome> same question goes for the translation deadlines: will somebody upload new versions of packages when we hit those?
<dsmythies> knome: gunnarhj just got upload rights for desktop help and will do it. I do not know about the others X-K-L-? ubuntu. The serverguide is not a package, so I usually do it.
<knome> dsmythies, thanks, but that doesn't answer my question :)
<knome> GunnarHj, heard you got upload rights for the ubuntu docs... i guess that doesn't extend to the xubuntu docs, or does it?
<GunnarHj> knome: No, it doesn't. Guess you are the one who should apply for xubuntu-docs.
<knome> i'm not, i have no experience with packaging
<GunnarHj> But maintaining an existing package (as I suppose you do all the time) has little to do with packaging experience.
<knome> yeah, i acknowledge that
<knome> it come down to the fact that it's just not something i want to commit to :)
<GunnarHj> Ok. Personally I see it as a right, not a commitment. Getting upload rights is not the same thing as becoming a package's maintainer (which I wouldn't want to be - I'm just a volunteer...).
<knome> i understand
<knome> and i understand it is a privilege
<knome> but... i don't want that, i have enough already
<knome> if you know what i mean :)
<GunnarHj> I do know about having enough already. ;-)
<knome> it's not something i am interested in, and i think it wouldn't be fair to let others think i am
<knome> i also think it would make sense to have one contact person for updating all the docs packages in all needed situations
<knome> but i'm not asking you to do that... you will have to volunteer yourself.
<bkerensa> GunnarHj: I'm also applying for uploads for ubuntu-docs and package I maintain in Debian
<bkerensa> GunnarHj: Going to bang out some work on the bugs today and try and land some merges before the day ends
<GunnarHj> knome: Since I don't work with Xubuntu, I wouldn't be the right person for that role. Suppose you'd better try to find some core dev who is involved in Xubuntu.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: ping?
<knome> GunnarHj, yeah... that's the problem. but no worries, we'll handle it via the sponsorship queue then
<GunnarHj> knome: Since the docs uploads are pretty time critical, I can help you by calling someone's attention to it on IRC, if you feel you don't have the proper contacts.
<knome> GunnarHj, no, i do
<knome> GunnarHj, and i don't have a problem to put it in the sponsorship queue
<knome> GunnarHj, it's just that... i don't think that's a very sustainable option :)
<GunnarHj> It's better if you get some specific developer who know you well and trust you, of course.
<knome> yeah, that's not the problem either
<knome> i just think that in ideal world there would be a single person, or team, who made sure all documentation-related uploads were made when needed
<knome> and were in touch with the flavor teams and who ever had documentation packages to upload
<knome> and that team should be (a subset of) the ubuntu-core-doc team.
<GunnarHj> I think that in the ideal world, Canonical would take a more active interest in docs in general. Having a dedicated docs uploader, as you mentioned, might be a part of that.
<knome> that's another discussion
<knome> whether it was canonical or community... that doesn't matter to me
<knome> community is taking care of lot of the docs already, and while it sucks that canonical doesn't help sustain it, i think the community should be able to cooperate and come up with a sustainable solution
<belkinsa> Agreed.
<GunnarHj> Well, not to me either, really, but it's easier to maintain sustainability with employed staff, and those are Canonical.... So the issues are related, I think.
<knome> i guess...
<knome> though that doesn't mean the community shouldn't try to fix things
<knome> maybe canonical was more interested to maintain the docs (or make some developer work on the uploads) if there was something specific set up
<belkinsa> I think we need a link to the developers to give us docs on what they work on.
<GunnarHj> Of course, I didn't mean to say that the community would be less involved.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Right, that's another important point.
<knome> belkinsa, that's a different issue, which is more closely related to the canonical-community communication
<belkinsa> Oh, I was thinking from the Roundtable from the last UDS
<knome> the point is, that issue only concerns the ubuntu docs, and only the content part of that
<knome> as it is now, the flavors already (obviously) maintain their own documentation content
<knome> and they only need to get it uploaded
<knome> which is okay, if they have the manpower to do so
<knome> during this cycle, we've had only a few uploads here and there by people in our team, everything else went through the sponsorship queue
<knome> which is another issue...
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I am here now.
<GunnarHj> Hi dsmythies!
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: The reason I pinged you was to ask if you had made any progress wrt that screenshot, but as you may have seen I have fixed it now.
<dsmythies> I didn't make any progress. I didn't see that you fixed it. I will pull Rev 385 right away and have a look. Thanks.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Sent a mail about it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: It's not very beautiful, so if you know how to make a better one, please do.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: What did you install to make it work? The rhythmbox-plugins package, I assume.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Yes.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I'll try it and see if my screenshot is any brighter than yours. If not, I might contrast stretch yours.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Ok, thanks.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I'm not good at playing with pictures.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: My main trick is that I do it at a screen resolution of 720X576, which minimizes after capture downsizing.
<godbyk> I can take a screenshot real quick if you like.
<godbyk> dsmythies: What dimensions did you say it should be?
<dsmythies> godbyk: I am just updating, which is taking awhile, then I was going to try to get the same one GunnarHj just did, but see if I can make it brighter.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Aha, didn't think of that.
<dsmythies> 250X200
<dsmythies> It is one of the set that it rotates through on the index.page
<godbyk> The screen resolution should be set to 1024Ã768.
<godbyk> Gimme just a sec and I'll crop this one and email it to you guys.
<godbyk> You can decide if you want to use it.
<dsmythies> For the script yes. When I do them manually, I set the screen as low as it will go.
<godbyk> That one must've been taken at a resolution higher than 1024Ã768.
<godbyk> Otherwise most if the stuff in that image gets cut off.
<GunnarHj> I used the default screen resolution, whatever it is...
<dsmythies> Grab any size at an aspect ratio of 5 to 4 and it can be re-sampled afterwards.
<GunnarHj> probably 1366 x 768
<godbyk> Well, it looks nicer if you don't have to resample.
<dsmythies> I crashed my 14.04 Desktop VM. I'll be awhile...
<godbyk> Okay, I ended up having to crop the screen to 500Ã400 and then scaling it down by a factor of two.
<godbyk> I've emailed you guys the screenshot I took.
<godbyk> Let me know if you'd like me to make any adjustments or retake it.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: In any case it's better than the one I did...
<GunnarHj> godbyk: But I would think that it would be even better if the actual sound menu was bigger (and less of the background).
<godbyk> With the 250Ã200 ratio, it's hard to do that.. otherwise you end up clipping off the bottom of the sound menu.
<godbyk> Are there any specific items that I can help with?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Just sent a modified version of your screenshot to illustrate what I meant.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: (via mail)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: But if you agree, it should of course be done based on the original screenshot for better quality.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Let me see if I can get something closer to that by adjusting the screen resolution...
<GunnarHj> Ok
<godbyk> GunnarHj: See if you like the newer one better.
<godbyk> I took the screenshot at 800Ã600, then cropped it and then scaled it to fit the 250Ã200 restriction we have.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Excellent, much better. :)
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Does it look blurry or anything?
<knome> anything in 250x200 looks blurry :P
<godbyk> knome: Fair point. :)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Resizing isn't good for quality, but I think it's good enough for the purpose.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Yeah, that's why I was trying to always resize be an even factor like two. But that doesn't give you the proportions you wanted.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Aha, so it's a trade off between proportions and clearness, kind of...
<godbyk> GunnarHj: True.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: See that now, when I compare your two pictures. Anyway, I for one vote for the second one. Let's Doug decide. ;-)
<godbyk> GunnarHj: I'm relatively ambivalent. I'll let you and Doug sort it out. :-)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: cheese-dick! ;-)
<knome> huhu?
<GunnarHj> yeah, not willing to take a stand.. :)
<dsmythies> godbyk, GunnarHj: My atttempt e-mailed to you. I did not have to re-sample it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Very clear, but no embedded picture...
<dsmythies> godbyk: Earlier you asked: Are there any specific items that I can help with? The script: check-validation.sh assumes IDS checks work, but they don't. You were working on changes. Were they submitted?
<godbyk> dsmythies: I haven't yet, but I can work on that if it's helpful right now.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Yes, I do not know how to get the embedded picture.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I also planned to add options so you could enable/disable individual checks. And you wanted href checks disabled by default, right?
<godbyk> dsmythies: I downloaded this MP3: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbicha/Echoes%20In%20Time.mp3
<godbyk> dsmythies: It's the one used in the original screenshot. It comes with embedded album art.
<dsmythies> yes, Href checks must be disabled by default.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Just drop it into the Music folder so Rhythmbox finds it and you're all set.
<dsmythies> i guess the script doesn't fall under the string freeze deadline, so probably not a hurry.
<godbyk> dsmythies: True.. unless it helps us fix problems that need to be corrected prior to the string freeze deadline.
<dsmythies> godbyk: I can not seem to get the embedded picture. Can you grab another screen shot? Hold the aspect ratio at 5 to 4 and get just past the bottom of the dialog box, at whatever height it takes. I'll re-sample it to 250X200.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I'm not following. What would you like me to do differently this time?
<dsmythies> Send me the original screen shot before any cropping or re-sampling.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I can do that. Which resolution do you want?
<godbyk> dsmythies: The last one I took was at 800Ã600.
<GunnarHj> godbyk, dsmythies: Is there anything in the desktop guide that comments on the Display capplet in System Settings?
<godbyk> dsmythies, GunnarHj: Okay, I've sent you some full screenshots at various resolutions.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Some of the links under https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/prefs-display.html deal with it.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Thanks!
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Another thought... Did you ever discuss the terms with anybody? Thinking of session/system menu and that stuff.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: I haven't.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Aside from the menu bar / top bar issue that mpt weighed in on.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Ok. Currently it is system menu in the desktop guide and session menu in the manual.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Guess we'll need to live with that discrepancy for now.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: It's probably a bit late in the day to change it now. After this cycle, we'll get that sorted out.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Agreed.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Are you O.K. with the screenshot (unity-app_01_.png) I sent you and godbyk?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Indeed I am. Looks good.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Do you commit it?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: still there
<GunnarHj> godbyk: ?
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Yep, I'm here.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I will commit it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Great.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Did you see that I modified the update-translations.sh script?
<dsmythies> Guys, I am quite happy with the screen shots now. Thanks.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Was that the one where you renamed the files from ubuntu-doc-LANG.po to LANG.po?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: No. It was revision 374.
<godbyk> Oh, let me look.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I mean yes, it was that script...
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Ah, then yes. :)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Did it really work as expected before?
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Hmm.. I'm fairly sure it did. But I haven't tried it in eons.
<godbyk> For the manual, I usually download individual .po files as they're ready for publication.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Maybe the tarballs in ubuntu-docs and the manual are differently structured.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: But nevermind, I'm pretty sure the copy in the branch works for ubuntu-docs.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: That could be to. I'll have to check sometime.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Ah, good.
<godbyk> brb
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Great work with the screenshots. Thanks!
<godbyk> back
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-20
<GunnarHj> dsmythies, godbyk, everybody else: Just updated the proposed "What's new" page.
<GunnarHj> http://people.ubuntu.com/~gunnarhj/whats-new.html
<GunnarHj> Please let me know if you have some last minute feedback.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Should we split the updates into two categories: since 12.04 and since 13.10?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I know that we talked about doing so during a meeting, but I found it difficult to make that distinction in a sensible way.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Fair enough.
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> back
<godbyk> GunnarHj: I'd change #3 to read: Improved look and style including rounded window decorations, a new interface for screen unlock, and other tweaks to the theme.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Good improvement!
<godbyk> I want to rejigger #5, too...
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Please be feel to do it directly in the branch.
<GunnarHj> free
<godbyk> GunnarHj: okay.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Probably easier than describing the changes. :)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Right.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Where did you get the 'literally hundreds of different online sources' count for the Dash? How many does it actually search?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: https://help.ubuntu.com/13.10/ubuntu-help/whats-new.html
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I just copied and pasted... Don't really know.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Huh. Fair enough. :)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: But I agree it does not sound plausible.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Maybe we should make it a litte more vague...
<godbyk> Yeah.
<godbyk> I was trying to find a real number.. are there actually hundreds?  Or just dozens?  Or maybe only a dozen?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Good question. I have absolutely no idea. I have it switched off...
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I can ask someone tomorrow.
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: I made some adjustments to the What's New page. I've just pushed the to bzr so you can take a look. Feel free to revert anything you dislike.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: I like it. Thanks!
<godbyk> GunnarHj: np
<bkerensa> godbyk: I noticed What's News says changes made since 12.04 LTS
<bkerensa> but these changes should be since the last release not 12.04 LTS
<dsmythies> bkerensa: I'll forward you some e-mail thread about the what's new stuff.
<bkerensa> dsmythies: oh so I should leave the 12.04 LTS bit?
<bkerensa> dsmythies: nick of time btw I was just about to push :P
<dsmythies> Yes, I think so. I'll forward you a bit of the thread.
<bkerensa> okie dokie
<dsmythies> bkerensa: I sent some of the e-mails, but not all. The issue was discussed and LTS to LTS what's new won out.
<bkerensa> Do you know if anyone from the team is interested in taking care of the release notes?
<bkerensa> It usually takes a couple hours of time and pinging all the teams for contributor names
<bkerensa> good night all
<melodie> hi
<melodie> anyone here has a write access to the wiki ?
<belkinsa> Hey there, melodie.  Everyone does with a LP account.
<melodie> hi belkinsa everyone but me
<belkinsa> Did you log in?
<pleia2> melodie: when you sign into the wiki, is the username box checked?
<melodie> when I try to get to a wiki page I am redirected to the login screen
<melodie> hi pleia2 I will check now and reply
<melodie> I am at "yes log me in" all boxes checked
<pleia2> including Username?
<melodie> now I would like to go back to the page I was there
<pleia2> (it won't show up if you don't have one)
<melodie> pleia2 all 3 boxes checked
<pleia2> I have 4 boxes :)
<pleia2> so I don't know what 3 you have
<pleia2> Username is the important one
<melodie> what are your other boxes?
<pleia2> Time zone, Full name, Username, Email address
<belkinsa> I have those too.
<melodie> I think I don't have timezone
<pleia2> ok, but you do have Username?
<belkinsa> Isn't the full name one the only one that isn't grey out?
<pleia2> the other issue on the wiki is caching, sometimes logging in with a different browser helps, or clearing the cache
<melodie> miracle, that seems to work!
<pleia2> oh good :)
<melodie> I had to login twice though
<belkinsa> Good to hear.
<pleia2> goofy thing
<belkinsa> It can be weird at times.
<melodie> goofy?
<melodie> o_o
<pleia2> they use pretty aggressive caching on the wiki, so sometimes it behaves oddly
<knome> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Goofy.svg
<belkinsa> lol, knome.
<melodie> yes! Dingo :D
<melodie> ok, the doc is edited now
<melodie> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UsbAudioDevices
<melodie> I put it under a title 2: "Information as of 2014, March 20"
<melodie> I hope it's ok for you guys and gals
<dsmythies> godbyk: I am using your check_validation.sh script right now. But I do not know what it is doing. I entered: doug@s15:~/docs-1404/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-help/C$ ./check_validation.sh and it has been gone for about 10 minutes now.
<dsmythies> godbyk: Oh. It finished.
<godbyk> dsmythies: It's checking everything but not telling you anything until it finds an error.
<godbyk> dsmythies: If you use the -v option, it'll give you status information as it goes along.
<CarstenG> Hi all
<CarstenG> Today is DocumentationStringFreeze. So we can now safely start with the translation.
<CarstenG> Or is there any change in any pot file expected?
<godbyk> CarstenG: I think dsmythies has already uploaded the pot file today, but I'm not positive.
<CarstenG> godbyk: Thanks. I saw his email in the branch revisions.
<dsmythies> I t was not me that changed the pot file. I'm checking things and would like until the freeze time of 21:00 UTC. (Unrelated but, For the serverguide I need until 21:00 UTC, but I do the next step anyway)
<CarstenG> Ok, than we can start :-) And in general, for all the other packages I think, we can also start.
<CarstenG> Ah, ok. Then we wait until 21 UTC
<godbyk> CarstenG: You can probably start translating, though. I don't think many strings have changed.
<CarstenG> Or better tomorrow :-)
<CarstenG> Yes, I guess some typos...
<godbyk> dsmythies: Btw, I kind of like the simplicity of this: https://wiki.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Tasks/DesktopHelp
<CarstenG> Fortunately yesterday I downloaded all the po files from the doc. So I can compare it with the current version :-)
<dsmythies> godbyk: Validation: I an do the syntax, orphans and dead link checks in 25 seconds. The script is takiing 3 minutes and  36 seconds. I'll do it again with verbose and observe what it is doing.
<godbyk> dsmythies: Hmm.. that's quite a bit of a difference.
<godbyk> dsmythies: One thing I'm doing differently than yelp-check is that I'm checking each file individually, but I wouldn't expect that to add so much overhead.
<dsmythies> CarstenG: It was Gunnar that updated the .pot file and you should be O.K. to proceed.
<dsmythies> godbyk: yes I like the gnome tasks page.
<shaunm> hey all, I've set the dates for open help 2014. would be great to see some ubuntu faces again. http://openhelpconference.com/
<bkerensa> godbyk: has anyone mailed the translations list to officially tell them they can begin translation?
<godbyk> bkerensa: I haven't noticed such an email yet.
<bkerensa> godbyk: we should send one
<bkerensa> :D
<godbyk> bkerensa: I think the latest pot is up on Rosetta/Launchpad now, so it should be safe to start translations.
<godbyk> bkerensa: Btw, Gunnar has upload rights now, so we shouldn't have to worry about chasing down someone to upload our package.
<godbyk> bkerensa: Oh, and I just saw an email exchange between Doug and Gunnar. They're on top of the translations mailing list. They're going to send an email once they've taken care of a couple odds and ends (e.g., waiting for the Launchpad to process the approval for the translation template).
<belkinsa> I found this question interesting: http://askubuntu.com/questions/202088/is-there-a-kind-of-ubuntu-wiki-sitemap-or-contents-index?atw=1  Someone is looking for a site map, maybe one should be created for the wiki?
<bkerensa> godbyk: Yeah I saw that and talked to him
#ubuntu-doc 2014-03-21
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-March/018781.html
<knome> pleia2, ^
<pleia2> okie
 * knome sighs at him volunteering for new thigns
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> i plan to intrigue balloons as a co-owner though
<knome> canonical involvement \o/
<knome> (and irc-active too...)
<belkinsa> pleia2, I think we might need more active people for the owners of the mailing list since my request hasn't be filled yet.
<belkinsa> knome, and I agree, we need canonical involvement too.
<pleia2> belkinsa: see knome's email :)
<belkinsa> I saw
<pleia2> ok
<godbyk> pleia2: We had a discussion about mailing list admins last August (see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-August/017518.html for the start of the thread). I volunteered to be a mailing list admin, but it looks like that never came to pass.
<godbyk> pleia2: Do you know how we becoming mailing list admins for the ubuntu-docs list? It's different than the mailing list I manage through Launchpad for ubuntu-manual.
<pleia2> godbyk: if he doesn't pipe up, mdke should add someone (he's usually responsive if you email directly)
<pleia2> last option is someone on the CC contacting Canonical IS for the password (I had to do this for the marketing list)
<godbyk> pleia2: Okay. I'll ping mdke and see if he can add some of us to the admins list.
<godbyk> pleia2: Thanks!
<pleia2> sure thing :)
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-16
<melodie> hi
<melodie> is there an Ubuntu-docs guru here?
<melodie> as it is logged I'll go on
<melodie> at the end of this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Openbox
<melodie> there is a mention about Gentoo wiki
<melodie> this page has gone to 404 and the website is the property of a non free company, using the domain of a former non official Gentoo wiki.
<melodie> I just got the full information from the Gentoo people on their chan
<melodie> and you can check the home page: https://gentoo-wiki.com/
<melodie> and the content
<melodie> and here is the relevant information provided by one of the Gentoo community members:
<melodie> <iamben> melodie: that's an ubuntu problem, the real ink is here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Openbox/HOWTO
<melodie> so if someone having access could edit that part?
<melodie> gn
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-17
<bregma> hey folks, the Ubuntu desktop team and the Canonical desktop Unity team are preparing some release notes for 15.04, we'd like to make sure the docs get meshed up at the same time
<bregma> is any one looking after that sort of thing on the docs side?
<bregma> can we talk?
<pleia2> bregma: might be best to send an email to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com to kick off the discussion
<bregma> yes, will do after we finish defining the list of changes
<pleia2> bregma: can you email now to let the team know?
<pleia2> bregma: getting notified of changes is something the doc team always struggles with, so I'm sure they'll be happy to know someone intends on doing it this cycle :)
<bregma> on the list of things to do today; that list has never known want
<bregma> previously we've ended up doing a merge proposal against ubuntu-docs with this info any way
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-19
<dsmythies> Hi Gunnar,
<dsmythies> String freeze today surprised me.
<dsmythies> it came up quickly, and un-noticed
<dsmythies> by me...
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Did you see the e-mail. We got the mascot creature icon. I would still like to document a per cycle process for getting it. At least, we finally seem to have the correct e-mail address to inquire about it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Saw it. Yeah, right address, progress. ;)
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I've been in a bad shape lately, hence the relative silence. I'm going to spend a couple of hours on the desktop branch today, and refresh the POT.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: My thought is to *not* upload the package to the Ubuntu archive now, but only upload to the PPA. The latter is more useful, since it will instantly include the current state of the translated pages.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: The mascot icon needs re-sizing. I'll do the image editing and push the new icon. Give me an hour.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Ok, thanks!
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Can I help further?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: There is nothing particular I can think of. I'm about to fix bug #1392907. As regards bug #1411283 it can wait until after doc string freeze.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Btw, one thing: There is a new background image, and Laney mentioned today on #ubuntu-desktop that yet another version of it was about to be uploaded. So we should probably update the desktop icon, but I suppose that can wait until after doc string freeze as well.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: See revision 459, with mascot creature icon changed. Due to a lot of lines, the jpg file is much larger than last time. I know I switched one time to .png files, but then switched back to .jpg files. At the moment I don't recall why.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Never mind. It looks good. :)
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Yes, we can do screen shot updates after string freeze. Yes, typically, the last changes are after string freeze anyway.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Right.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: We can deal with bug #1411283 when we deal with screenshots.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Sounds like a good plan.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Before I update the POT, is there anything else (urgent) affecting the strings that you can think of?
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I have not been payaing close attention to desktop. No, can not think of anything urgent. I'll (or Peter) wrap up the serverguide point releases on the weekend. I'll start the 15.04 preliminary on help.ubuntu.com at the same time.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Ok, thanks, then let's decide that we are on top of it. :)
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I am not running 15.04 desktop on a daily basis. Are you? If yes, will you watch for the background change? I can catch up and do the screenshot capture and editing, once I know to do it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I have 15.04 installed, but don't use it on a daily basis either. I noticed the first new background, but don't know whether the new update has happened yet. I'll keep an eye on it.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I'll start up my VM and catch up later today. Currently I am running a test kernel I built and I can not run my VM's when this series of kernel is running.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Did you build your own kernel? Wow!
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I "pretend" to build the kernel. I use Ubuntu config becuase I never know what to set or not. Currently, I can not get a driver to compile. I've made a typo somewhere creating zillions of compile errors, but none that point to my mistake.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Ok.. That's way over my head. Haven't tried anything like it.
<dsmythies> For now, going back to it.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I updated the POT, and it got imported to the project in LP, but so far I don't see it in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/ubuntu-docs . Maybe I need to upload the package, after all. Does it possbly ring a bell?
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: You shouldn't need to upload the package. I see some completed imports now. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/trunk/+translations
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Catching up my 15.04 desktop VM now. It was somewhat out of date, so will take some time to complete updates.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I saw that too later on, but then I had already uploaded... Suppose I'm too impatient. No harm done, and the extra package upload was very easily accomplished.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I suppose there is no reason to keep the yelp-* packages in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/+archive/ubuntu/ppa . Thoughts?
#ubuntu-doc 2015-03-20
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Yes, those yelp PPA's can be deleted. Thanks for building them and posting them a couple of months ago.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Deleted the yelp-* packages in ppa:ubuntu-core-doc/ppa.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-21
<dsmythies> tsimonq2: Thanks for your help with the serverguide.
<tsimonq2> dsmythies: no problem :)
<knome> GunnarHj, i've removed the community help wiki item from the agenda. i wish you the best of luck to be able to gather suggestions, run the session and find the volunteers to be able to do what is the best for the community help wiki.
<knome> GunnarHj, because i know i won't be doing that without external guidance - i've seen where that has ended up before, and not willing to use more time in seeing the same happen again
<knome> GunnarHj, i also thought the meeting is going to be held to talk about problems in the team
<knome> GunnarHj, but apparently the community help wiki isn't one of those... or is it? *shrugs*
<GunnarHj> knome: Just replied to the lists.
<knome> the problem i see here is that you are asking for suggestions on the actions we want to take
<knome> those have been made already, but then somebody disagreed, so no actions were carried
<knome> i would imagine many people who are attending know those suggestions as well; they have been discussed on the mailing list and on the IRC channel
<knome> and i'm not exactly suggesting the item as a technical discussion
<knome> i would also like to hear what canonical thinks about the importance of the wiki etc.
<knome> or in other words, if it makes sense to try to make it work again
<knome> and i'm not saying we can't invite somebody external to an UOS session
<knome> but from what i've seen before, i don't think that person is going to take the required position on the meeting as a mediator and/or leader in the discussion
<knome> that is, considering anybody has time to attend the meeting
<knome> david has scheduled his time now to hear about our problems, so i see this as the perfect opportunity to bring up the problems
<GunnarHj> knome: I posted my ideas with no malice. My intention was to avoid yet another discussion on the topic leading to nowhere. But I won't persist - possibly I misunderstood the thoughts behind that agenda item.
<knome> me too
<knome> i've just seen enough of rambling around the wiki that i will always step down when somebody suggests more discussion instead of action
<GunnarHj> knome: The funny thing is, IIRC, that you and I are basically agreed on the desired direction.
<knome> not all are
<knome> and tbh, i'm fine with most directions
<GunnarHj> True.
<knome> as long as it is done
<knome> the current situation is the worst, limbo between existence and inexistence where nobody does anything for the wiki
<knome> so it rots and rots more
<GunnarHj> knome: Yep, that's how it is currently, unfortunately.
<knome> so yeah, if i can get another pair of (fresh) eyes on the issue, let alone speaking it's somebody who can have good insight on the direction we should go to generally...
<knome> i've taken the translation discussion to email with david too
<GunnarHj> I liked the idea about the translation teams. Would be good to not need to involve Canonical when an owner of a translation team disappears.
<knome> yep
<knome> tbh, the coordinators team seems moot in a way
<knome> if they aren't admins, the team does not have much more power than the regular user
<GunnarHj> knome: It is. I'm the latest member... We do have some power (can't recall the details right now), but not the power to replace inactive admins/owners.
<knome> yep
<knome> i noticed you are
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2:  I noticed you are pretty good with bzr.
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: how so?
<tsimonq2> and I prefer git XD
<tsimonq2> either way, I've written testcases before, so I'm pretty familiar with how stuff works :)
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2:  (or anybody). When I accept a merge proposal and the want to commit and push back to the master. I have always done "bzr commit -m 'edits per MP: #123456; by whomever. However, what I really want is to just use the original commit message from the MP. Do you (or anybody) know how to do that?
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2: I prefer git.
<tsimonq2> I have no clue, sorry :)
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2: O.K. thanks.
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2:  I do not know what git XD is.
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: "XD" is a face, turn your head sideways and you will see it :)
 * dsmythies1 seems to recall Benjamin (long since gone) used to know how to do such an MP accept and push back.
<knome> dsmythies1, pull the external branch, then do bzr pull to main from that
<dsmythies1> knome: O.K. thanks. And yes, I recall now that is what Benjamin did. However, I'm not wanting to do that. Why not? The branch is huge, and I prefer to deal with the little difference type stuff instead of an entire branch pull. So I guess I'm stuck doing what I have been doing.
<knome> dsmythies1, yes, i agree, it's not often worth it
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-23
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2: I saw that you pushed directly to serge's LXD doc. Can I do that also? If yes, how? (or should I read the book "Pro-Git", which I have as a PDF). I just sent Serge an e-mail with my notes, but maybe: They have already been fixed by you and Michael; I can save some time by pushing myself.
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: Hi, I just contacted Serge and sent a patch. He reviewed and pulled it to his repo. :)
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: he's hallyn on Freenode :)
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2: O.K. thanks.
<dsmythies1> tsimonq2: I had a look at your submission to serge's git. (i.e. git show 54c5d4c). Very impressive contribution. Thanks. Serge did add what hadn't already been covered from my reply.
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: that's what happens when something is open source and I'm a bit bugged by formatting issues XD
<tsimonq2> I've already converted like 20 different wiki pages from using apt-get to apt
<tsimonq2> that's the power of open source! :D
<tsimonq2> dsmythies1: reading your commit (5666c1729738120bb5e9d4b22ab3035c6dd89fa0), nice trivial catch of things :D
<pmatulis> morning
<dsmythies1> pmatulis: morning
#ubuntu-doc 2016-03-24
<dsmythies1> GunnarHj: I added some notes to that either pad thing. Mainly about stuff I do, but I did put your name beside one. Sorry for no notice.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies1: Great! No problem.
<dsmythies1> knome: As far as I have been able to determine the nwalsh references in our docs (serverguide and xubuntu) are some very very old thing. Like 2004 2005. I just got rid of it in serverguide. You might also consider for xubuntu docs.
<dsmythies1> knome: I am saying that in xubuntu-docbook-pdf.xsl
<dsmythies1> knome: : this line: <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/fo/docbook.xsl"/>
<dsmythies1> knome: can change to this: <xsl:importÂ href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/docbook-xsl/fo/docbook.xsl"/>
<knome> i thought they were required, but i'll look again
<knome> right
<knome> yeah, that makes sense
<knome> probably something for 16.10 if the old thing works...
<dsmythies1> knome: The old thing works. I just have never understood why is there. I just went through the entrie doc e-mail archieve and it was active in 2004 2005.
<dsmythies1> knome: But really, that link can probably be gotten rid of.
<knome> actually i believe that is some docbook standards
<dsmythies1> knome: And then it is more likely that serverguide, for example, could be compiled on a NOT ubuntu linux computer ( as someone that was trying to help me last night determined they could not do).
<knome> yes, i can see why that would be so
<dsmythies1> knome: I don't think so anymore, but might be wrong. It is just a symlink in Ubuntu.
<knome> docbook is very strict about files to be included
<knome> if they aren't found, it's likely the docbook build fails
<dsmythies1> knome: Agreed, but the nwalsh thing is needed anymore. Anyway you can leave it if you want. I got rid of it.
<dsmythies1> and was just passing along the info.
<knome> we'll likely keep it for 16.04 just to be sure, then look to get rid of it
<knome> thanks :)
<dsmythies1> knome: By the way, the nice person that was helping me on the docbbok-apps e-mail list suggested I do this:
<dsmythies1> knome:   +<xsl:import href="http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/fo/docbook.xsl"/>   instead. That I am not willing to do, in case of version mismatch stuff as time goes on.
<knome> right
