#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-02
<snap-l> Hmm... natty runs like crap in a Virtualbox vm
<snap-l> I'd love to know why gnome settings is completely hung as well
<snap-l> Ugh, the compiz settings don't work with UNity 2D
<snap-l> I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise, but it is disappointing
<jjesse> snap-l i've seen a couple of posts on planet.ubuntu.com on using vbox and unity
<snap-l> Yeah, i saw one that brousch shared, but nothing seems to work very well for me.
<jjesse> president speaking tonight on national security, rumors are we killed osma bin laden
<Blazeix> msnbc is confirming the rumor
<jjesse> pretty crazy on twitter right now
<_stink_> crap, really?
<jjesse> yup
<jjesse> confirmed by a ton of different sources
<jjesse> and we have the body
<jjesse> his wikipedia page has been updated all ready w/ death
<_stink_> wow
<Blazeix> it also appears it was US ground forces responsible for it.
<jjesse> suprised twitter hasn't blown up yet
<jjesse> pretty impressive
<ebarch> snap-l: i was just trying to get ubuntu classic 11.04 to run decently in virtualbox...doesn't even want to use the ambiance theme properly...
<Blazeix> ah, http://www.whitehouse.gov/live is staring
<Blazeix> s/staring/starting/
<snap-l> Well, that's a bombshell
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h__> party
<wolfger> still? You didn't get enough at Penguicon?
<rick_h__> heh, didn't stay at PC long enough I guess to get it out of me
<brousch> you went to pcon?
<rick_h__> I was there for the release party
<brousch> see any furries
<brousch> other than snap-l?
<rick_h__> one 'cat', but sure if it was furries or not
<wolfger> I, surprisingly, saw no furries at all
<wolfger> of course, I was not there during masquerade, and did not really do any partying
<wolfger> I'm getting old, and was unable to stay up partying all night :-p
<brousch> sad
<tameek_> Morning all.  Just wanted to quickly introduce myself.  My name is Tameek.  I moved to Michigan about a year ago. Comptia Linux+ certified, work as a support analyst. Love wine, and recycling. I've been using Linux for about 4 years off and on. I run Ubuntu in a vm.
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<ColonelPanic001> I'm ColonelPanic001. I sit and BS on IRC.
<brousch> hi, I'm Ben. I sit on IRC and make fun of ColonelPanic001 for BSing
<tameek_> lol
<wolfger> Hi. I'm wolfger. I kvetch and troll and generally try to be funny (and sometimes even succeed)
<wolfger> now do you love "wine" or "WINE". Significant difference there.... ;-)
<ColonelPanic001> I like whine.
<brousch> you obviously don't have a kid
<tameek_> wine
<wolfger> of course... I'm slow in processing this morning. Would be kind of silly to use WINE when running Ubuntu in a vm
<brousch> unless that VM is running on osx
<wolfger> true
<wolfger> I make an assumption that the primary system is Windows. i could be wrong
<snap-l> Hello, I'm snap-l. I sit on IRC and make random and sarcastic comments about just about anything. Oh, and I work with computers. :)
<ColonelPanic001> nerd
<wolfger> geek
<snap-l> (wrote that one time for my high school alumni questionaire: "works with computers"
<snap-l> It was pretty funny sandwiched between the other ones that were waxing eloquent on their jobs and families.
<tameek_> :-)
<snap-l> But, yes... welcome to #ubuntu-us-mi
<snap-l> Make yourself at home. There's chips and dip on the table.
<wolfger> I liked the 3-bullet resume for the "writing bad code" panel on Sunday... can't remember exactly how it went, but it was like, "1) I write code, 2) I've worked for some companies, 3) I've written some software"
<tameek_> Thanks!  Yes, primary system is Windows 7
<tameek_> dual monitor with Ubuntu/VM
<snap-l> wolfger: I so didn't want to miss that panel. :)
<snap-l> rick_h__: You weren't trying hard enough to see furries at Penguicon
<rick_h__> snap-l: no, that was intentinoal
<snap-l> There was at least two that I saw
<snap-l> Not sure about the cat ears / tail thing, though
<rick_h__> I had my back to most of the hotel during the event
<snap-l> if that's a "furry", then I saw a myriad more
<rick_h__> yea, that cat ears/tail seems a bit light for full furri-level
<rick_h__> might just be "i'm cute pay attention to me"
<snap-l> rick_h__: Aw, that's the fun of it. seeing things that you can't un-see.
<snap-l> The whole "are you going to see Rocky Horror picture show, or the drag show, or ... ?"
<rick_h__> so I sent an angry email with a lot of links to my benefits company that sent me my password in email
<rick_h__> that was fun
<ColonelPanic001> half the reason I like pcon is the general weird stuff I can't see normally. Doesn't matter if I'm "into it" or not.
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h__: good
<wolfger> 3 people came to "bad code" on Sunday who evidently participated in the drag show. Or should have....
<wolfger> actually, I can only say for sure two of them were.... the third was either legitimately female, or did a really damn good job.
<ColonelPanic001> it happens.
<rick_h__> grumble, and about to send a nasty one to att
<snap-l> wolfger: There were a few folks that were doing some good Genesis P-orridge transformations
<rick_h__> snap-l: you need to tell jody to be careful
<rick_h__> if I wasn't tired, I could have had a lot of fun with her steamroller tweet
<snap-l> Heh
<ColonelPanic001> o.o
<snap-l> She knows onl a handful of people read her twitter stream
<ColonelPanic001> no such thing
<snap-l> and do you really want JoDee on your bad side? :)
<ColonelPanic001> it's twitter
<rick_h__> "I got steamrolled at pcon and all I got was this t-shirt" lets the imagination run a bit wild
<snap-l> She will find you.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<rick_h__> lol
<wolfger> steamroller?
<snap-l> wolfger: Yeah, she said that she felt like she was hit by a steamroller at pcon
 * wolfger goes in search of JoDee's twitter account.
<snap-l> http://twitter.com/#!/saganfan1/status/64700129206206465
<snap-l> http://twitter.com/#!/saganfan1/status/64171083884007425 <- I like this one
<rick_h__> I didn't get that one
<rick_h__> is it against the rules to talk about your research?
<snap-l> Nah, you can talk about it all you want
<snap-l> just funny that folks would talk about their research while drunk
<snap-l> it's like talking about the deeper parts of your work while drunk
<ColonelPanic001> not if they find it interesting.
<snap-l> True
<ColonelPanic001> btw, anyone else?:   https://twitter.com/#!/0x241/status/64342179551776769
<snap-l> A little. Looks more like Sauron's ballroom to me
<ColonelPanic001> hah, also can see that
<rick_h__> damn, where's tjagoda when you need him
<rick_h__> or however his nick is spelled, I need my tab completion
<rick_h__> darn-non-idlers
<snap-l> rick_h__: What did RIM do now?
<rick_h__> http://www.androidcentral.com/rim-provide-enterprise-tool-secure-mangement-android-devices
<rick_h__> they're completing the prophecy, turning into a software/services company
<snap-l> rick_h__: So they're going the way of Palm, then.
<snap-l> That doesn't surprise me, honestly. ;)
<wolfger> speaking of t-shirts, what did anybody think of this year's shirts?
<_stink_> oops, late to the party
<_stink_> hi tameek_, i'm _stink_.  i work with ColonelPanic001 and we mostly sit and BS.
<snap-l> wolfger: I think they were a bundle of awesome. Had to buy one.
<wolfger> snap-l: sweet. Happy to hear it. (the artist is a good friend of mine)
<wolfger> the printing on the cycle's screen was my idea
<snap-l> Yeah, it was pretty sweet.
<tameek_> hey _stink_
<tameek_> sounds like fun
<_stink_> it is
<ColonelPanic001> he's lying.
<_stink_> down for a nap
<ColonelPanic001> for one, I work here.
<_stink_> buh dum chh
<greg-g> g'morning tameek_ ! Welcome to the channel. I'm Greg. I live in Ann Arbor and work at the University of Michigan Library.
<_stink_> greg-g is our fearless leader.
<ColonelPanic001> s/fear/beard/;
<_stink_> *gasp
<greg-g> not to worry, the bear is still attached
<greg-g> but I will probably be trimming it tonight, just to forewarn you, _stink_. It is pretty long (ie: I can comb it, a bit), so it is about time. :)
<ColonelPanic001> no
<ColonelPanic001> NO
<_stink_> well, i'll withhold judgement
<_stink_> i am shaven myself, though.
<ColonelPanic001> I'll probably trim mine soon a little
<snap-l> Listening to the OMC that I recorded at Penguicon.
<snap-l> Should be up tomorrow
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<wolfger> snap-l: What's the weirdest thing you ever saw at CTC?
<wolfger> Because I just saw a hooker carrying two golf clubs walking down the hall.
<snap-l> you win
<wolfger> and I think that's got to be near the top of the list
<snap-l> Seriously? A hooker?
<rick_h__> that likes golf?
<rick_h__> no way
<snap-l> Sounds like a Mindless Self INdulgence song
<wolfger> well... she was headed towards the exit, and wearing a long heavy coat, but.....
<snap-l> "One hooker and two golf clubs"
<wolfger> stilleto heels, skin tight faux leather pants, and big hair
<snap-l> wolfger: Wow
<wolfger> a purse in one hand, two golf clubs in the other
<snap-l> Maybe it's someone's wife?
<rick_h__> little driving range practice
<rick_h__> heels/leather is how I do my practice
<snap-l> She was going to surprise her hubby with a round of golf.
<_stink_> pics
<wolfger> _stink_: no camera policy at work :-p
<_stink_> of rick_h__ at the driving range :P
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> I'm not sure who worries me more... _stink_  or rick_h__
 * rick_h__ breaks out the 7-iron
<wolfger> and they were irons, not drivers....
<_stink_> 70% of golf shots are inside 100 yards
<_stink_> smart woman
<snap-l> No putter though, means she wasn't working on her short game
<snap-l> She was going for distance.
<rick_h__> pitching
<rick_h__> must be pitching day in class
<rick_h__> 9 and a SW probably
<rick_h__> :P
<snap-l> Either that or someone got called in to pick up some golf clubs
<rick_h__> ooh, security?
<_stink_> maybe she's the nanny and models herself after Fran Drescher
<snap-l> In any event, that's definitely pretty high on the weirdness magnet scale
<rick_h__> "unauthorized devices of fun located in 3E"
<snap-l> Worst I've ever seen are people's desks at CTC
<rick_h__> I'm going to have to stop listening to TWiT network stuff, going to give me high blood pressure
<snap-l> the ones that look like arboretum
<snap-l> rick_h__: What now?
<wolfger> rick_h__: LOL
<rick_h__> more of the same "what? People are suprised at the tracking on their phones? What did you expect, it's a spy device"
<wolfger> snap-l: Yeah, the flora is odd, but understandable. It's hard to live in a cube farm.
<wolfger> I haven't listened to TWiT in forever
<wolfger> don't remember why I stopped
<rick_h__> for more time to listen to lococast and OMC?
<wolfger> heh
<wolfger> I've got a little catching up to do on Lococast, for sure
<wolfger> waiting for another scream-free edition of OMC
<wolfger> love metal instrumentals, but loathe so much of the metal that has lyrics
<ColonelPanic001> most death metal growling is terrible.
<ColonelPanic001> but the good stuff is very good
<snap-l> Yeah, it's something you get used to, rather than enjoy
<snap-l> Though some of them really turn it up a notch and make it enjoyable
<snap-l> There's a new Club Metal episode that I released just before Pengiucon
<wolfger> Yeah, you mentioned. I still haven't gotten around to listening to it
<wolfger> Sorry. When I think of "metal", I think of Led Zepplin.
<wolfger> If it's not as good as them, it sucks. :-D
<snap-l> wolfger: We've had over 30 years to screw with that definition. ;)
<rick_h__> http://all-that-is-interesting.com/post/4956385434/the-first-zombie-proof-house
<snap-l> That is awesome.
<jrwren> WTF?  http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/Ubuntu-Enterprise-Cloud-Natty-Narwhal-62885.shtml
<rick_h__> jrwren: ?
 * snap-l is uploading his Penguicon pictures
<jrwren> why is there a separate UEC download?
<rick_h__> jrwren: because they have to provide it for dell to put on those cloud servers they're selling
<rick_h__> http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/by-need-it-productivity-data-center-change-response-ubuntu-cloud.aspx
<jrwren> oh, interesting.
<jrwren> but how is it different than just ubuntu server?
<rick_h__> preconfigured basically
<rick_h__> it's like how you can choose on install time you want a lamp server
<jrwren> i see.
<rick_h__> so it does the installs/setup for you vs you getting into the fresh system and doing the apt-get install XXX
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#
 * rick_h__ is afraid to click
<rick_h__> snap-l: oh, loved jcastro's blog post with the pic lol
<ColonelPanic001> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602144130086252498
<ColonelPanic001> I am a growth on snap-l's head
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> yes
<rick_h__> http://www.mister-wong.com/payments/upgrade/ hah
<rick_h__> so who's leaving bookie to pay $2/mo for your 10 bookmarks
<ColonelPanic001> ...10? wtf would you bother?
<ColonelPanic001> I had something 300 on delicious
<ColonelPanic001> which admittedly needs some pruning, but stull
<rick_h__> 300? wow that's light
<ColonelPanic001> oh, nm. 496
<rick_h__> lol, I'm testing bookie with 16,000
<rick_h__> and my site is 1,600
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't been using it as much in the last year or two, that's part of it
<rick_h__> you try out the FF extension yet?
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't even set up a server end for it yet. Must do that
<ColonelPanic001> was going to get started on this yesterday, instead was lazy and just "recovered"
<rick_h__> yea, well warning working on releasing 0.2 on MUG
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602144289748266514
<rick_h__> so install will have an upgrade shortly
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<rick_h__> great, I sneak into you photos
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602143548380050258 <- Anyone have a name for the lady on the left?
<snap-l> I think it's Mary, but I'm not 100% sure
<rick_h__> strange lady that comes to each release part
<rick_h__> party?
<jrwren> that penguicon restaurant looks swank.
<snap-l> Yeah, it was an update from last year
<jrwren> 64pople in the natty panel?  was it a positive crowd? or haters?
<snap-l> Mostly positive
<snap-l> though a lot of undecided
<rick_h__> that's fair though
<snap-l> It wasn't nearly as caustic as one might think
<brousch> same experience i had
<snap-l> yeah, welcoming change is not natural
<snap-l> but I definitely want to check out lenses
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think the point on TWiT is that you're carrying around a radio. You can triangulate on any radio broadcast
<snap-l> expectig 100% while broadcasting is foolish
<snap-l> 100% privacy, rather
<rick_h__> snap-l: right, but comparing it like that drives me bonkers
<rick_h__> "law enforcement knows where you are, they can request that easily" is different than any dude that picks up my phone can see my entire travel plasn for the last 2 years
<rick_h__> it's still a gaping hole that even apple says requires 3 'bug fixes'
<rick_h__> and they keep playing it like "well ATT knows where you are..."
<snap-l> rick_h__: And one patent application. ;)
<rick_h__> so the #@$@%$ what if ATT does, I know that. I don't want it available to someone that grabs my wife's lost laptop
<rick_h__> short sighted apologists imo
<snap-l> Oh no doubt
<jrwren> zomg... why did I stick with vmware server for so long? KVM via virt-install is soooo easy.
<rick_h__> yea, kvm is supposed to be good stuff, but does it have the extras stuff for native-like graphics/etc?
<rick_h__> I think that was the big hang up last time I was prepping to go the kvm route
<jrwren> no, but neither does vmware server.
<rick_h__> ah, ok
<jrwren> i was not using vmware desktop or virtualbox.
<rick_h__> gotcha
<snap-l> kvm isn't too good re: video cards, though
<snap-l> performance is not good (At least 6 mo ago)
<rick_h__> snap-l: I think the thing that bugs me is that these guys have a huge stage and explain a lot of things to 'normal' people and when the blow it I get cranky
<jrwren> perf in general, or do you mean video?
<snap-l> perf
<rick_h__> their coverage of the AWS stuff pissed me off because they didn't get the tech/etc right
<rick_h__> jrwren: just video, supposedly good low level performance for a server or something
<rick_h__> though at work we're going xen :(
<rick_h__> stupid RH based systems
<jrwren> "law enforcement knows where you are, they can request that easily"  is also false... any idiot who watches NCIS regularly, knows that when you are on the run, you turn off your cell phone.
<rick_h__> easily == pen register
<rick_h__> most carries have a website police can go enter their id and look your location up
<rick_h__> /carries/carriers
<jrwren> libvirt confuses me with how it mixes xen, kvm and qemu.
<jrwren> right, but they can't see that if your phone is off.
<rick_h__> I need more tunes to cheer me up, come on cloud player
<wolfger> kvm.... if it starts with a K, it's got to be good!
<jrwren> and I mean OFF, like pull the bat.
<rick_h__> right, but the idea is they compare police access as easy, therefore it's not a big deal to have these location leaks
<wolfger> Oh, wait, that was what I *used* to say before KDE turned to suck. Nevermind.
<snap-l> sorry, but if you're on the run, do not touch a cell phone
<rick_h__> poor wolfger, jumps ship from kde to gnome
<rick_h__> and then gets reamed again via gnome3/unity
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> I'm just biding my time. E17 will hit 1.0 one of these days....
<jrwren> e17 might as well be 1.0.
<jrwren> it ships in production on some samsung phones.
<jrwren> so far perf in kvm seems very good.
<wolfger> Really? Which ones?
<jrwren> I'm not sure, but the main e guy - is that rasterman - has been working for samsung for a whiel.
<jrwren> http://www.rasterman.com/
<jrwren> oh, my bad... maybe it is not out.
<snap-l> Yay! Got my order from Robot shop in the mail.
<snap-l> Beginners kit. Got a bunch more sensors, and a case to put them in
<snap-l> as well as a LCD screen
<rick_h__> yay, robot time
<wolfger> woohoo
<snap-l> Plus I have post-Penguicon energy.
<snap-l> It's a win-win-win-win
<rick_h__> Blazeix: ping, do you use dropbox on arch?
<brousch> snap-l: interesting, the guy in black in the middle of this photo is from my side of the state. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HwfT7g4eo2U/Tb7SAbuFaqI/AAAAAAAABN0/SRtsYDQdn_A/s720/img_3187.jpg
<snap-l> Heh
<gamerchick02> cool, snap-l.
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<Blazeix> rick_h__: yeah, think I have the aur package installed
<rick_h__> k, yea I got the userspace one going
<rick_h__> I had issues with just the normal dropboxd
<rick_h__> thanks
<rick_h__> actually kind of cool: http://www.hilarymason.com/blog/how-to-get-a-random-line-from-a-file-in-bash/
<snap-l> That's awesome
<Blazeix> how about sed -n "$(($RANDOM % $(sed -n '$=' test.txt)))p" test.txt
<Blazeix> that way you don't have to deal with awk, like FireFighter's solution does
<Blazeix> nothing against awk, I just never managed to wrap my head around it
<snap-l> Frankly, heading to awk is just a stone-s throw away from python / perl
<rick_h__> I liked the dd answer
<rick_h__> wouldn't have thought of that one
<rick_h__> and works with any size file
<wolfger> the best command available in bash is "perl -e"
<rick_h__> ipython
<snap-l> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1910
<snap-l> perl -e 'srand;rand($.) < 1 && ($it = $_) while <>;print $it' < testing
<jrwren> <3 awk
<jrwren> wait... dd?
<jrwren> how did they set a RS ?
<jrwren> or do you mean do ?
<jrwren> *od
<jrwren> I like the od solution.
<jrwren> i'd have never thought of that too
<rick_h__> http://tumblr.machinetext.com/post/4997828856/selecting-a-random-line-from-a-file
<rick_h__> od was used in an example as well
<wolfger> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=902311
<snap-l> I love how people 'misuse' tools for a common good.
<jrwren> ok, i grok the dd now. that is kinda cool.
<snap-l> And I put that in air-quotes, because I love rube-goldberg solutions
<jrwren> "hax"
<snap-l> Oh geez
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> craig@lister:~$ echo `cat /dev/urandom | od -N4 -An -i `' % '`wc -l < testing`
<snap-l> 1623132144 % 5
<snap-l> Which then gets fed to bc
<snap-l> craig@lister:~$ echo `cat /dev/urandom | od -N4 -An -i `' % '`wc -l < testing` | bc
<snap-l> -4
<snap-l> omg, that's a hack
<jrwren> is it?
<jrwren> I like it.
<jrwren> although I think you can use base for the modulus
<snap-l> jrwren: Hack as in something very clever
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> I was thinking Hack as in something doing something it was not meant to.
<jrwren> i see each of those as doing exactly waht they are meant to.
<jrwren> and composing these things is why i like unix.
<snap-l> Yeah, same here
<snap-l> UNIX is like a big box of productivity legos
<rick_h__> but there's no gui for any of these
<rick_h__> fail!
<rick_h__> surely you can't do something that a gui can't
<snap-l> rick_h__: I banish you
<snap-l> BEGONE!
 * rick_h__ hides in shame
<jrwren> you are dead to me rick_h__ :)
<rick_h__> oh geeze, I do a little channeling of jcastro and you guys get on me :P
 * brousch welcomes rick_h__ with open arms
<brousch> gimme a hug big guy
<rick_h__> yea, how does that work on a mac is what I want to know lol
<jcastro> haha
<brousch> it seems to have dd available
<rick_h__> I want a unity quick menu, thingy...right-click "random line from file"
<wolfger> What button can I click to display a random line from a file? :-)
<wolfger> what is this "dd" everybody keeps referring to? "dd" is the command to delete a line. :-p
<Blazeix> rick_h__: someone should totally make a 'core-util' icon for the unity dock.
<Blazeix> where you right-click and every core-util is an option
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> Quick poll: Has anyone found anything from an archive.org netlabel that isn't more painful than sticking your head in a dryer?
<brousch> well the dryer turns off when you open the door to stick your head in it
<snap-l> I mean if you took your head off to put it in the dryer.
<ColonelPanic001> this is too complicated
<brousch> which head?
<snap-l> either one
<brousch> no
<snap-l> That's what I thought
<gamerchick02> *blink blink* i walked in at the wrong time.
<ColonelPanic001> no such thing.
<gamerchick02> i saw something about putting your head in a dryer...
<gamerchick02> hrm
<ColonelPanic001> so?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't comment on how you dry your hair, Ms. Judgemental.
<gamerchick02> it air dries. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> same thing in the dryer.
<gamerchick02> it was the "which head" comment that threw me. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> that needs drying, to
<gamerchick02> oh well.
<ColonelPanic001> too
<gamerchick02> heh
<brousch> well some of us have 2 heads, like zaphod beeblebrox
<gamerchick02> Zaphod is awesome. :)
<fdvalero> hello everyone, after pinguiton which is the next event in michigan?
<ColonelPanic001> Well, I went to work today.
<snap-l> fdvalero: I don't think there's anything really planned yet.
<snap-l> The next big event that we're part of is Ohio Linuxfest
<snap-l> some of us also go to PyOhio
<snap-l> Pretty sure we'll also have a release party for 11.10
<snap-l> That'll be in October.
<greg-g> fdvalero: what snap-l said.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/lmorchard/statuses/65166820356792320
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-03
<rick_h__> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/05/sony-attacked-again-12700-non-us-cc-numbers-feared-stolen.ars
<rick_h__> gah!
<rick_h__> Blazeix: heard much on the arch stable-ing out?
<Blazeix> rick_h__: tough to tell, I'm pretty pissed that they moved from gtk2 to gtk3.
<rick_h__> my boss made the switch this weekend
<rick_h__> next day gnome3
<Blazeix> since there's only one gtk3 theme out there, you're going to lose your look/feel, assuming gtk factors into it.
<rick_h__> he hopped on IM there and was just "talk about bad timing!"
<Blazeix> yeah, luckily I use chrome/rxvt pretty much exclusively
<rick_h__> yea, fortunately I've not gone gtk for much of anything at this point, though I know chrome/firefox pay some attention to it
<Blazeix> so it isn't too bad, but chrome is ugly
<rick_h__> ugh
<rick_h__> bah, keep failing to install this pencil package as well
<Blazeix> this is the default look for nautilus now: http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/nautilus-adwaita.png
<Blazeix> makes my eyes bleed. That's how it's supposed to look.
<rick_h__> giant!
<rick_h__> yea, I've been a long time thunar user
<Blazeix> yeah, thunar looks terrible now, since I don't think there's an xfce/gtk3 integration
<rick_h__> ugh
<rick_h__> yea, I used to use lxappearance to help with my apps that listen to gtk stuff
<rick_h__> guessing that's out the window
<Blazeix> yeah, there's gnome-tweak-tool, and a config file you can edit to tweak stuff
<Blazeix> gnome-tweak-tool will crash if you don't have gnome-shell installed, though.
<rick_h__> the shots I've seen of the gnome3 desktop though is quite horrid
<Blazeix> The whole thing just feels very raw.
<rick_h__> welcome to OSS in 2011
<rick_h__> these are the times that test us...
<Blazeix> it's almost enough to make me switch to a Qt desktop
<Blazeix> almost
<rick_h__> so I wonder how this is in ubuntu/unity land
<rick_h__> that's gtk3 right?
<Blazeix> not sure
<rick_h__> wonder how other apps look with it
<Blazeix> actually, I'm not sure if it's gtk3
<rick_h__> bah, this sucks. Can't get the app to install so do I sign up for a web service or not, that is the question
<snap-l> Unity is still gtk2
<jjesse> just switch all to kubuntu and your life will be better
<snap-l> Yeah, after all, once the baby is out, who needs bathwater?
<rick_h__> dammit, and twitter guys by client I finally like
<rick_h__> the world is full of suck today
<snap-l> Which client?
<rick_h__> tweetdeck
<snap-l> Brillant. ;)
<snap-l> Well, look on the bright side: it'll be supported the rest of it's life
<rick_h__> wonder if I can get single use CC nubmers for my debit card
<rick_h__> man I don't trust anyone right now
<snap-l> whether if that's tomorrow or two years from now is anybody's guess. :)
<rick_h__> @#$@#% and chase is down? wtf people
<Blazeix> I hear HP just bought lenovo, too.
<Blazeix> and all tiling window managers are halting development
<greg-g> wha?
<snap-l> rick_h__: Time for the hermit life
<Blazeix> greg-g: not actually
<Blazeix> greg-g: just painting rick_h__'s worst nightmare
<greg-g> Blazeix: that's what I get for only switching over to this desktop and just reading one line of scroll back
<Blazeix> heh
<rick_h__> I'm going into depression/the bunker
<rick_h__> sony hacked a freaking gain
<snap-l> HP buys Lenovo, Awesome stops development, and work mandates that everyone uses OSX
<rick_h__> packages won't install, want to use a single use CC number for my debit card, but bank website is down and don't htink they support it
<snap-l> Including the servers
<rick_h__> oh hell, now you're just doing crazy talk
<snap-l> rick_h__: What packages are you installing that require a debit card?
<rick_h__> pencil install fails, so signing up for http://gomockingbird.com
<rick_h__> oh lovely, if I was a mid-sized business chase would give me a single use account number
<snap-l> rick_h__: I'm sorry... I'm really sorry
<rick_h__> but not little ole me
<snap-l> (that's what Doctor Who says before the other shoe drops"
<rick_h__> that's it, emailing them I want a paypal option since I don't trust them with my CC number
<Blazeix> rick_h__: will the AUR pencil-svn package not work?
<rick_h__> Blazeix: no, build fails and not sure why tbh
<rick_h__> trace isn't clear to me on what's failing/missing
<snap-l> rick_h__: http://ubuntuone.com/p/qG5/ <- I'm sorry, I'm really sorry.
<snap-l> What exactly is pencil supposed to do anyway?
<rick_h__> oh interesting, I missed that it was FF based
<rick_h__> that's probably it, sayhs ff3.5
<rick_h__> snap-l: mockup tool
<rick_h__> I need to mock some bookie ui layouts
<snap-l> I don't think Pencil is what you're looking for
<snap-l> This appears to be a 2D animation tool
<rick_h__> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx
<rick_h__> yea, wrong thing
<snap-l> Jesus, how many of these damn things are out there?
<snap-l> I've seen three, two of which were $80
<snap-l> all web-based.
<snap-l> And it was at this moment that snap-l realized why that was, and snuck back to the rock to which he craweld from.
<rick_h__> huh?
<snap-l> You're mocking up web-based interfaces, no?
<snap-l> So, naturally, you'd want something web-based. ;)
<rick_h__> well I am, but mocking is just mocking
<rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: you're needed in #bookie
<snap-l> Nuts, I think I cooked a motion sensor because I didn't understand how to hook it up right
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h__> party
<rick_h__> lots of $5 albums on amazon mp3 land
<rick_h__> woo! new music to start the new day
<wolfger> party
<wolfger> but don't let snap-l hear that you're using and enjoying Amazon MP3.... :-)
<rick_h__> hah, how can I use ubuntu one? I don't run ubuntu :P
<snap-l> !openmetalcast 20, recorded live at !penguicon. 19 people saw what went in, but nobody heard what came out. http://ur1.ca/42oc4 Scary!
<snap-l> wolfger: I prefer Ubuntu One because of the syncing. There's no question that Amazon has better sales.
<snap-l> rick_h__: It's only a matter of time before you're back to Ubuntu. ;)
<rick_h__> heh, why sync, I've bought 10 albums and not downloaded one :)
<snap-l> rick_h__: Because I like having my music not suddenly vanish. ;)
<snap-l> Y'know... like a cloud on a windy day.
<rick_h__> snap-l: they also have a new feature, it'll auto download
<rick_h__> When you save your Amazon MP3 purchases to Cloud Drive, you can download new purchases from Cloud Drive to this computer automatically.
<rick_h__> This setting is unique to each of your computers and must be set from Your Account > Your Amazon MP3 Settings from each computer. This setting can also be set for your Android device.
<snap-l> Ah, cool.
<rick_h__> boom!
<rick_h__> :P
<snap-l> May consider using it again
<snap-l> HEy, that was my biggest beef. If they fixed it, I'm settled.
<rick_h__> not that I don't like supporting my canonical buddies, but sorry...
<rick_h__> snap-l: the big thing is that U1 would do better sycning your existing stuff
<rick_h__> uploading your stuff to cloud drive is a bit of a pita
<snap-l> Yeah, u1 needs to excell in that areal
<snap-l> Bah, where'd that extra l come from
<jjesse> the amazon mp3 player is pretty cool use it on my android all the time
<jjesse> uploaded my running music playlist to it, and then use the mp3 + my tracks when i run
<jjesse> mp3 player pauses when my tracks announces my time
<paroneayea> I'm just joining this channel because greg-g is awesome
<paroneayea> I love that guy.
<snap-l> Yeah, we're fans as well.
<wolfger> welcome to #greg-g-fanclub
<paroneayea> :D
<wolfger> just as long as you're not here because you think brousch is awesome... :-p
<greg-g> heya paroneayea :)
<snap-l> I was about ready to give up computers and become a hermit until I met greg-g. Now I hang out in IRC all day and stroke the picture of greg-g that I have in my office.
<snap-l> He's so dreamy.
<greg-g>      | <-- line     snap-l --> *
 * paroneayea pets greg-g's head softly
<greg-g> :)
<paroneayea> too bad greg-g's already engaged.
<paroneayea> and that I'm married.
 * wolfger puts on the bow-chika-wow-wow music
 * _stink_ gets the camcorder
<wolfger> ...it's like Penguicon all over again
<greg-g> only with less furries
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofibNrYDjdY <- Replace Ace Rimmer with greg-g, and you'll get it mostly right.
<_stink_> someone put on a wizard hat
<greg-g> yay, Red Dwarf!
<brousch> greg-g: you don't know how we're all dressed. this is the internet!
<paroneayea> wizard hat!  I have one of those
<paroneayea> %
<paroneayea>    \'.
<paroneayea>     \ '.
<paroneayea>      \  \
<paroneayea>      _L__L_
<paroneayea>      //~ ~
<paroneayea>      G   >
<wolfger> greg-g: Yeah. brousch is wearing his fursuit
<paroneayea>      / \\\\-------.__  * * * *
<paroneayea>     / ' \\\______ |T  * MAGIC *
<paroneayea>    |   \ \\      \|    * * * *
<greg-g> warning, paroneayea likes his ascii art, he is my resident ascii art friend :)
<wolfger> percentage-wise, that would make this channel more furry-inhabited than pcon
<_stink_> COWSAY plz
<Milyardo> paroneayea: Where's the magic stick?
<snap-l> Milyardo: greg-g doesn't need his magic stick
<paroneayea>    \'.
<paroneayea>     \ '.
<paroneayea>      \  \
<paroneayea>      _L__L_           _
<paroneayea>      //~ ~           / /
<paroneayea>      G   >           //
<brousch> no magic sticks please. let's keep this sfw
<paroneayea>      / \\\\-------._//
<paroneayea>     / ' \\\______ |T3
<paroneayea>    |   \ \\      \//
<brousch> oh man, i bogarted the ascii art
<paroneayea> <it_crowd>"Are dragons gay, Phil?  Mighty warrior priests wielding golden staffs, I suppose theyâre gay too.</it_crowd>
<snap-l> http://imgur.com/xlAkI
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3163
<_stink_> what a guy.
<brousch> um, crap. SSDs fail a lot http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scale.html
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, and catastrophically.
<brousch> this is not news i wanted to hear. make it go away
<Milyardo> but the hotness
<rick_h__> heh, never going to be on non-ssd here
<rick_h__> never had issues with my intels. 2yr out of my old one before I sold it and a year into this one
<jrwren> i love that he references the hot/crazy scale.
<rick_h__> greg-g: http://ejohn.org/blog/next-steps-in-2011/ kind of cool
<rick_h__> open course type stuff it sounds like
<greg-g> rick_h__: cool, yeah, Khan Academy is pretty neat. I'm very glad that they have someone from Mozilla starting there working on Open Source stuff
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/statuses/65510057437184001
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> <3 zedshaw
<snap-l> jcastro: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/308/
<snap-l> jcastro: You're a freaking mind-worm. ;)
<jrwren> it was only 150 yrs ago.
<jrwren> Standard Time didn't come into existence until rail travel necessitated it.
<jrwren> and people did it according to the town tower. That is why towns had clock towers.
<snap-l> She just got a pocket watch, so that's where the question came up
<jrwren> tell her to find a town clock tower.
<jrwren> mine is at ntp.ubuntu.com :)
<snap-l> har har. :)
<snap-l> All I know is I wish everything I owned either set time via the internet or via WWVB
<snap-l> Or CallerID
<snap-l> There is no reason I should have to set the Wii's clock manually
<TeamXlink> Is there a way to use two power supplies to power *one* graphics card? If so would this solve the problem of a lower then recommended power supply? My power supply is a 250 watt and It is powering the motherboard and graphics card, I have another 250 watt power supply powering all of the fans and drives. I've disabled the pci slots, serial port, parelle port, mouse * keyboard port to save po
<TeamXlink> wer (I'm unsure if that made a difference or not however).
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Um...
<snap-l> Where oh where to begin...
<TeamXlink> Its amps that matter though right?
<TeamXlink> More then watts?
<snap-l> Well, let's just say if you're running two power supplies, and still not getting enough juice, that's indicative that there might be something else wrong
<snap-l> I guess my first question would be what prompted you to think you need more power for the vid card?
<TeamXlink> The recommended specifications and results of online searches.
<jrwren> does the video card have a separate power input?  and you are using it on the secondary PS?
<jrwren> if it is a beefy enough video card, it is likely you don't have enough power.
<jrwren> 250W is very little.
<snap-l> Well, it's also likely you don't have the right connector either
<jrwren> also, the Vid Card spec should say how much it needs on the 5V rail.
<TeamXlink> snape-I: And the auto tune in the ati overdrive underclocks my graphics card due to insufficent power, or thats the reason I think it does that.
<TeamXlink> The graphics card has a 4 pin connector on it that is plugged into the power supply that is powering the motherbard and graphics card
<snap-l> Right, OK.
<snap-l> So it's drawing power from the Mobo and this separate cable?
<TeamXlink> Yes.
<TeamXlink> jrwren: I'll go fetch the link for you.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think you're not going to be easily able to drive that with two PS units.
<TeamXlink> It says 1.5v for agp4x
<jrwren> what kind of card?
<jrwren> AGP??/ zomg, ancient, how much power can it need?
<TeamXlink> http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-HD3650-Video-100258L/dp/B001L62INY
<TeamXlink> It is a 8x agp card but supports 4x agp
<TeamXlink> The fan on the one that arrived is different then the fan in the first pic, it looks like this one http://ec5.images-amazon.com/images/I/2185DP%2BbquL.jpg but it keeps temperatures realtively low.
<jrwren> 300W min.
<snap-l> yeah
<jrwren> so I'd try pluging the secondary power supply into the 4pin
<TeamXlink> Mine has 2 dvi ports as well I just noticed.
<TeamXlink> Alright.
<jrwren> maybe it will balance some from mobo and some from secondary
<TeamXlink> But that one is powering all of the other devices?
<jrwren> but its a gamble.
<jrwren> what "other devices" ?
<jrwren> drives dont' pull much.
<snap-l> jrwren: Newer drives don't. ;)
<TeamXlink> Hard drive 4 case fans
<snap-l> I used to have some 150MB Wren drives that needed a separate case / PSU to run. ;)
<jrwren> i don't know about fans, but given they are just electric motors like a hard drive, its going to be nearly nothing.
<jrwren> snap-l: right.
<jrwren> not just "newer drives"
<TeamXlink> It is filling the space where the disc drives would go so I don't have any disc drives installed unfortuenataly.
<jrwren> but anything even remotely modern.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, just reminded me of that case.
<TeamXlink> It is a 60gb Western Digital WDC WD600BB-75CAA0
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Yeah, you should be fine
<jrwren> TeamXlink: anything made within the last 15 yrs is going to be fine and draw very little power.
<TeamXlink> Alright thank you.
<TeamXlink> I eventually want to either get a power supply I can use for everything or find another way to mount the extra powersupply, using my drives in an external drive usb setup is vary slow. and I still haven't found a way to use the floppy drive as well.
<jrwren> one of 'em is a 60G... you could get a 2TB and a 400W seasonic for well under $150
<TeamXlink> Thats more then I payed for the computer, lol
<TeamXlink> The computer was originally a Dell Optiplex GX 260, but the only thing left of that setup is the case and motherboard, everything else is different.
<jrwren> old stuff is a bummer.
<TeamXlink> Its not that old.
<TeamXlink> The graphics card is miles better then my old one.
<TeamXlink> The only thing I don't like about it is the ram setup.
<TeamXlink> It has a maximum of 1gb of ram.
<jrwren> ancient.
<TeamXlink> The processor isn't stock either I just realized, the one I have is a 2 ghz.
<TeamXlink> Thank you for the help everyone!
<TeamXlink> hmmm.
<TeamXlink> Dells specs about the ram limit are different then the specs elsewhere on the internet.
<TeamXlink> Maybe it was changed in a bios upgrade.
<TeamXlink> Yeah it is 2gb, sweet!
<TeamXlink> I have a question though.
<TeamXlink> I have 3 x 1gb ram chips that wouldn't fit the slots in my computer however they work on the family computer, I still don't know what the differences are though.
<TeamXlink> I think my computer requires ddr while the other one requires ddr2
<TeamXlink> http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx260/en/ug/specs.htm#1110653 http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dime521/en/sm_en/specs.htm  would any ddr ram work?
<jrwren> any DDR1.
<TeamXlink> Alright, sweet thank you!
<TeamXlink> I'm going to post an add on craigslist to see if I can trade the 1gb ddr2 chips for 1gb ddr1 chips.
<TeamXlink> Thank you everyone for the help again!
<Milyardo> WHats with some people and blind hostility towards Mono?
<brousch> mono is the evil spawn of that sell-out miguel de icaza and steve ballmer
<brousch> no good can come from such a union
<Milyardo> Not sure about how Ballmer is involved, but Miguel is nicest guy
<brousch> i was just channeling the haters
<brousch> the hostility comes from mono being based on a microsoft product
<Milyardo> like WINE?
<Milyardo> Where's the Alexander hate then?
<brousch> wine is more trying to find a way around microsoft
<brousch> mono embrasses the microsoft
<brousch> embraces
<brousch> wine is a hackish way of fighting the man. mono acknowledges that MS has something worthwhile
<Milyardo> Not sure if I see how reimplementing .NET isn't any less finding a way around MS as say OpenJDK reimplementing Java
<Milyardo> *and finding away around Sun/Oracle
<brousch> acknowledging sun has something worthwhile is much more acceptable than MS
<Milyardo> What about Samba then?
<brousch> hackish
<brousch> you're looking at this far too logically to understand the haters
<Milyardo> I'm trying and failing
<brousch> MS is the great devil
<brousch> anything provided by MS is evil
<brousch> so happily accepting and embracing their technology makes you evil
<brousch> people only use samba because their boss makes them work with windows computers
<brousch> people use wine because they want to play games on linux
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-04
<Milyardo> So what need need then are more games written in .NET and Mono will be okay?
<snap-l> Milyardo: Folks that hate on Mono and don't hate on Java are blind to the problems with both
<rick_h__> I just prefer to hate
<snap-l> It's just that it's convenient to hate on Microsoft's technology because of the underlying opinion that Microsoft wouldn't create anything without ulterior motives
<snap-l> ie: mono will be a patent trap, or will get changed to keep developers scrambling or...
<snap-l> Which are complaints that can be leveled at Java, or any other corporate controlled language.
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> So, I finally got a hold of someoene that can help me with the Java code at work
<rick_h__> wheeee
<snap-l> and right off the bat, he says to use Eclipse
<rick_h__> lol
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h__> that's why I'm a bit of a 'look down' on the IDE folks.
<snap-l> And hands me a project file / bundle / whatever the hell it is
<greg-g> guess who's been getting up way too early lately? That's right, this guy. 7am is ungodly
<rick_h__> can't code without their buttons to press
<rick_h__> greg-g: hah, come on. I was clocked into work a quarter till 7
<snap-l> seriously Java isn't a programming language as much as it is an oral tradition.
<snap-l> with inexplicable code bundles handed down from generation to generation of coders.
<rick_h__> "this magic eclipse project will build...we don't know why, but by god it builds
<tjagoda> Sounds like a different kind of oral tradition.
<tjagoda>  /pun music
<snap-l> I think there's one developer out there that cranks out this stuff
<snap-l> once he gets fed up, Java will cease to be.
<snap-l> (or she, for that matter)
<tjagoda> lol
<brousch> greg-g: poor baby. i get up at 6am every day and the first thing i have to do is wake my cranky wife and cranky kid
<rick_h__> new ones?
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h__> maybe get some non-cranky versions
<rick_h__> seems like a bad feature to me
<rick_h__> sorry, wife and I joke about getting upgraded versions of each other and such. Guess it's not quite normal to everyone else
<brousch> these are people, not robots, you insensitive clod
<_stink_> isn't that just new firmware?
<rick_h__> _stink_: meh, it's like new android phones
<rick_h__> you could root/upgrade but you might as well just get the newer versions
<_stink_> ha, the whole thing then
<_stink_> sign me up
<brousch> please do not root your children
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, the gf is still sleeping when I wake up and leave :/
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/05/04/tear-down-this-wall/ <- The thought for the day.
<rick_h__> lol, "public static final"
<rick_h__> always fitting java into your posts snap-l, you fanboi :P
<snap-l> Yah, totally
<greg-g> I liked it, made me giggle
<rick_h__> OMG I love zsh
<rick_h__> rm **/*.pyc
<rick_h__> bammo
<rick_h__> greg-g: can you do recurring meetings in the loco directory?
<snap-l> for CHC?
<snap-l> Not easily.
<snap-l> I think you have to copy the event
<rick_h__> yea, was thinking of starting a rebranding of UH/CHC
<snap-l> Calling it Ubuntu Hour instead?
<rick_h__> combining a bit
<snap-l> Yeah, that makes sense
<rick_h__> Ubuntu House:CofeeHouseCoders
<rick_h__> nice little shortcut of UH:CHC
<rick_h__> claim we work with the community and such so the dual brand
<rick_h__> but get it on the calendar
<snap-l> sellout. ;)
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I like
<greg-g> I'll report a bug against loco directory for the feature request part, but I'm game for the rebranding, of course
<snap-l> But yeah, I was going to put it on the events calendar, but hesitated because it wasn't ubuntu specufic
<snap-l> So a slight re-branding would work
<rick_h__> dammit, I hate canonical web UX
<rick_h__> that time picker is the suck
<snap-l> Oh totally.
<snap-l> You can't even type in a value
<brousch> yeah, that thing is annoying. i'll bet it's really annoying if you hate your mouse
<rick_h__> what? have to put it in diff time?
<snap-l> Try typing in 20:00 and see what happens.
<rick_h__> I'm regretting my decision just based on getting it in this freaking suckitude of a web page
<rick_h__> no, you mean 00 since it's +4
<snap-l> Events are local time, no?
<rick_h__> dammit, so CHC is 00 the 6th?
<rick_h__> no, UTC
<rick_h__> sorry, 00 5th
<snap-l> The natty panel event that I put in was under EDT
<brousch> i think it's local time
<brousch> i remember having to pick the time zone
<rick_h__> no, it says all events must be in UTC
<rick_h__> but then it says the TZ is +1
<rick_h__> do we have a TZ in our team settings?
<brousch> maybe recurring events are different?
<rick_h__> there's no recurring events
<rick_h__> this is for a meeting vs an event
<rick_h__> at least that's what I figured this was since there's no signup/etc
<rick_h__> ugh, pita
<brousch> ah, that could be
<snap-l> I think it might be better to put it as an event
<greg-g> oh, yeah, meetings are UTC, because it does fancy IRC log parsing
<jrwren> Milyardo: blind hatred of MSFT. The extremists don't use samba and hate it just as much and will offer solutions like "use NFS"
<snap-l> since it isn't a team meeting
<greg-g> events are local time
<rick_h__> ah, events are local
<rick_h__> gotcha
<snap-l> yeah
<rick_h__> ok, well events had all this extra crap I didn't need/want so went with meeting
<rick_h__> going back
<jrwren> rick_h__++ I use an IDE, but I still look down on the ide folks :)
<greg-g> btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/777098
<snap-l> Marked as affecting me as well
<greg-g> thankya
<rick_h__> ok, added the month of may at least
<rick_h__> we'll see if I copy/keep it up
<snap-l> I can maintain it if you want.
<snap-l> I'm kinda anal about calendars. ;)
<brousch> will you make rick_h__ boot from an ubuntu livecd at the meetings?
<snap-l> Nah, he'll come around eventually
<snap-l> the fifth time that X crashes for no reason, he'll be back. ;)
<rick_h__> had 5 of them :(
<rick_h__> but spread over several weeks
<snap-l> I mean in one day.
<rick_h__> heh, I think 3 in one day would trigger a reinstall
<greg-g> not to be a wet blanket in ubuntu-land, but a buddy from another channel had unity crash 3 times on him yesterday for no apparent reason, on a fresh install :/
<snap-l> greg-g: I'd believe it
<snap-l> Unity is hard on graphics hardware
<greg-g> I was saddened by it. The first it crashed completely, the second was alt-tab wouldn't display the windows being tab'd through (but would "blindly" work), the third I'm not sure
<rick_h__> it's getting hardon users
<brousch> i haven't had it crash, but i also haven't used it for real work or for longer than an hour at a stretch
<rick_h__> with a space in there
<snap-l> I think a lot of folks that found the intel cards "good enough" are going to be rethinking that decision.
<greg-g> brousch: oh, I thought you were full time with it for some reason
<rick_h__> yea, I'm seeing a lot of folks thinking about really jumping ship
<brousch> greg-g: http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2011/05/02/natty-and-unity-at-wmlug/
<snap-l> Thing is, Unity is still beta software
<jrwren> no it is not.
<jrwren> it is released.
<jrwren> it may be poor quality, but canonical shipped it.
<jrwren> there is no beta in there.
<rick_h__> ok fine: "it's beta quality software"
<greg-g> jrwren: :) I agree. It is like calling KDE 4.0 "beta"
<snap-l> rick_h__: ++
<rick_h__> release early/often has its drawbacks...see bookie blow ups
<snap-l> Thing is, KDE 4.0 was beta quality
<greg-g> but we loves rick_h__
<jrwren> yet gmail beta was extremely high quality.  IMO higher quality than it is these days.
<snap-l> even though it was "released"
<jrwren> so I'm not sure what "beta quality" maens.
<jrwren> I've used betas of extremely high quality.
<greg-g> "not releaseable"
<rick_h__> bah, beta == known bugs and gmail had that
<jrwren> so lets just call it poor quality or buggy
<rick_h__> now they carried that tag way too long
<rick_h__> but a giant new window manager framework that's < 1yr old should have a beta tag on it
<snap-l> jrwren: We're getting into a semantic war that nobody will be able to definitively win. ;)
<jrwren> truth.
<jrwren> so lets argue about something else... like was it really war?
<snap-l> and who really won?
<jrwren> giant new window manager?  how big is it?
<jrwren> it can't be more than a few thousand lines of code.
<rick_h__> bigger than pytile :P
<jrwren> hehe.
<snap-l> Well, Unity also includes app changes to make it work better
<rick_h__> I don't know, if they go about their C anything like their python/launchpad it's a lot more than that
<snap-l> XEMBED is deprecated.
<brousch> so if they'd released it with a giant BETA on the desktop background it would've been ok?
<greg-g> I'm still hung up on the fact that Unity is *just* a plugin to Compiz
<rick_h__> greg-g: funny isn't it
<snap-l> brousch: Of course not
<snap-l> brousch: They'd need to make that text customizable
<snap-l> brousch: So instead of saying "BETA", it could say "Joe's Chicken Shack", or have an API to put a clock there.
<rick_h__> brousch: personally, I'd say at this point it should have been a install time option
<snap-l> or your entire todo list.
<rick_h__> "would you like to help beta test our huge cluster?"
<snap-l> rick_h__: Nobody would use it, then. ;)
<rick_h__> see: https://luke.faraone.cc/blog/2011/05/your-release-sucks/
<snap-l> That's what Ubuntu Classic is for
<rick_h__> right, but when crap crashes it doesn't say "I noticed you had a big boom crash. Would you like me to install the classic for you?"
<brousch> classic is always installed
<rick_h__> ok fine "Would you like me to switch to classic for you"
<snap-l> rick_h__: You're assuming that the person involved with the crash still has display drivers that aren't completely fucked at this point. ;)
<brousch> well actually it does say that if your graphics drivers aren't up to snuff ;)
<snap-l> blink blink blink blink blink
<rick_h__> brousch: then the code to do it is already there
<brousch> It says something like "your graphics drivers suck. logout and switch to classic"
<rick_h__> they should also be referencing a list of drivers that are know to be causing issues this release
<snap-l> rick_h__: ++
<rick_h__> good ole blacklist is back "lots of people with that totally legit card, but which we didn't test much, are having crashes, we'd like to provide you a more stable experience to reduce our hate mail kthx"
<jrwren> that would be great.
<jrwren> and not do that until after the first crash... so people who do have a good experience continue to have a good experience.
<rick_h__> stable > pretty
<rick_h__> jrwren: totally, get the bug report
<rick_h__> and get the crash count
<rick_h__> so you know about it since you're basically turning live people into beta testers on hardware that wasn't well tested
<jrwren> you guys should go code that up
<rick_h__> but after that first crash...don't do it 3 times in one day
<rick_h__> and piss off greg-g's buddy
<jrwren> who is that?
<rick_h__> greg-g's buddy had 3 crashes in one day and is not happy with natty
<rick_h__> see backlog
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h3las/attachmate_lays_off_mono_employees/ <- This discussion really pisses me off
<rick_h__> add that to the comments you don't read
<snap-l> mostly because people are so blinded by hate that they can't see potential good
<rick_h__>  /. reddit youtube
<snap-l> Meh, I like the comments on Reddit
<snap-l> Tehre's some gold in there
<snap-l> Youtube's featured comments are about as far as I can get before they blow up into crap and racism
<snap-l> actually, racism is definitely in the set of crap
<jrwren> snap-l: the fact that the original article is a lie should piss you off too
<snap-l> http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2011/05/attachmate-lays-off-mono-emplo.html#comment-153773 <- The fact that Bradley Kuhn is the voice of reason here is sad.
<brousch> jrwren: attachmate is not laying off the mono people?
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> its all a lie.
<jrwren> no mono people were laid off.
<jrwren> 100 or so people from Novell were laid off in provo Utah.
<jrwren> no one on the mono team was laid off.
<wolfger> "Its about what is an application and what is a program."
<wolfger> ...
<jrwren> snap-l: I like that reddit comment thread... lots of posts with negative points.
<jrwren> now there are also too many comments with high + points that should be negative, but at least there is some good in tehre :)
<snap-l> IT's just a bowl full of stupid
<wolfger> a lot of pointless bickering over what is a good language
<wolfger> and idiocy like the above "what is an app and what is a program" quote
<jrwren> rofl @ GTK# is patent incumbered.
<jrwren> ROFL ROFL.
<jrwren> well, then, I guess GTK+ is too!
<snap-l> It's the same bullshit argument that we're somehow chasing Microsoft and asking for a seat at the big-boys table
<wolfger> what about GTK++?
<snap-l> And that it's a patent trap
<jrwren> oh definitely.
<jrwren> must be.
<jrwren> so that means all of gnome too, because its built on GTK
<jrwren> gnome is a MS patent trap!
<snap-l> in case anyone hadn't noticed, just about anything is a patent trap
<jrwren> i'm not sure the phrase "patent trap" even makes sense.
<snap-l> It makes as much sense as a parent trap
<jrwren> hrm... Haley Mills or Lindsay Lohan?
<snap-l> both
<wolfger> "parent trap" was a movie about trapping parents
<wolfger> patent traps are not about trapping patents
<wolfger> totally inappropriate comparisson
<wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> so, by extension, we should make a movie with Lindsay Lohan about trapping patents
<wolfger> Let's use Kim Khardasian instead. She's hotter.
<jrwren> I think she would be better at trapping something else.
<jrwren> ZOMG GROSS.
<snap-l> I'm sure she'll be pretty reasonably priced once she gets off probation / jail / whatever.
<jrwren> I don't understand who the world thinks she is hot.
<jrwren> or why the world thinks she is hot.
<jrwren> gross gross gross.
<snap-l> jrwren: There's a certain contingent of folks that enjoy the easy slut look
<wolfger> so... jrwren thinks Lindsay Lohan is hotter?
<jrwren> gross gross gross.
<jrwren> Lohan at her prime was hot.
<jrwren> these days... not so much.
<snap-l> I prefer something that can at least hold up the end of a conversation without trying to hold themselves onto a barstool.
<jrwren> snap-l: brains?  those just get in the way of my adgenda ;]
<wolfger> ++
<wolfger> Kim appeals to those who like booty
<jrwren> i like booty. she does not appeal to me.
<wolfger> O.o
<snap-l> She's as appealing as a used cigarette
<wolfger> to each their own, I guess
<wolfger> mind you, she's not on my top 10 list... all I said was she's hotter than Lindsay. And about on-par celebrity-wise.
<snap-l> wolfger: I can live with that.
<ColonelPanic001> I have just walked into something
<wolfger> "I can't think of a hotter reality show floozy". How's that for a ringing endorsement? XD
<_stink_> better weigh in, ColonelPanic001
<snap-l> http://cdmckay.org/blog/2011/05/02/things-i-miss-from-java-while-programming-in-c/ <- Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't think I'd miss any of these so-called "features".
<ColonelPanic001> Kim Cardassian looks too artificial.
<rick_h__> @!$##$@ speaking of X crashes...
<snap-l> ruh roh
<ColonelPanic001> I'm sticking with my Natalie Portman infatuation. You all can take the useless idiot reality show "stars".
<snap-l> Hey tbemus
<jrwren> snap-l: you aren't writing enough code then :)
<snap-l> tbemus: Quick, somewhat embarrassing question if you've got a sec.
<tbemus> sure
<snap-l> jrwren: Maybe I'm not
<jrwren> snap-l: although the anonymous inner classes point I think the author misunderstands what is going on.  the other points I kind of agree with him on.
<snap-l> tbemus: https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602143548380050258 <- Who is the lady on the left?
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: do you have black swan on repeat?
<snap-l> I should know this.
<wolfger> curse my anti-picasaweb work firewall :-p
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: never saw it
<tbemus> snap-l: Mary Tolmech  - She is a regular at the MDLug meetings
<ColonelPanic001> she looked starved, from what I saw, anyway
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<ColonelPanic001> but it is aronofsky, so I will eventually
<snap-l> I thought her name was Mary, but I wasn't 100% sure
<tbemus> Your welcome
<wolfger> ok, can it be lunchtime yet?
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: its a great movie. and I'm not a huge portman fan.
<wolfger> I am both hungry and tired. I would like some food and a nap :-p
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: noted, thanks
<ColonelPanic001> in other related news, I just found that WSU has a page for their cheerleaders.
<wolfger> woot!
<jrwren> o_O
<snap-l> That's like finding out that WSU has a football team
<jrwren> I remember liking the oakland dance team back when I went there.
<jrwren> I'd take 1/2 or maybe all of them over any of the aforementioned celebs.
<snap-l> I did not like the Venturettes (Bishop Foley's Dance Team)
<jrwren> high school groups always suck IMO.
<jrwren> or... back when I was in high school... the never sucked when you wanted them to.
<jrwren> *oh snap*
<snap-l> Mostly because somoene got the bright idea to play Axel F at top volume through the shitty horn speakers in the gym
<wolfger> <rimshot>
<jrwren> rofl.
 * jrwren imagines a breakin' crew dancin with the nuns
<snap-l> jrwren: You wish
<snap-l> It was the girls team for those who didn't do cheerleading
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> and I'm LMAO picturing them in neon clothes and headbands and wristbands doing backspins and headspins with nuns
<snap-l> Also, Foley was the more 1970s version of nuns
<snap-l> no habits, folk music
<snap-l> Vatican II was in full effect there.
<jrwren> i know.
<ColonelPanic001> Sounds like a movie sequel.
<ColonelPanic001> Vatican II: The Resurrection
<snap-l> Considering they let a Lutheran in there, that was pretty big. :)
<_stink_> DAMNIT
<wolfger> the connection is so obvious.... Axel Foley... Bishop Foley....
<jrwren> but lots of silly movies of the same time period...well...ok... a little earlier... made hokey nuns in habits references.
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: i had just typed that exact thing in
<wolfger> Vatican II: Electric Boogaloo
<snap-l> jrwren: Sister Act this wasn't. ;)
<snap-l> wolfger: lol
<ColonelPanic001> Vatican II: Revelations
<_stink_> Vatican II: Chastity is Dead
<wolfger> lol
<ColonelPanic001> Vatican II: Weekend At Ratzinger's
<snap-l> Though I'm sure they didn't like me referring to John Paul II as "The Deuce"
<wolfger> Vatican II: Why are the alter boys all scared?
<snap-l> That, and my mom packed me baloney sandwiches during lent.
<jrwren> I was thinking Repossessed :)
<snap-l> So I'd be sitting there eating meat on a Friday in a Catholic school.
<wolfger> s/alter/altar/ :-p
<_stink_> snap-l: that is awesome
<wolfger> _stink_++
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm a rebel.
<wolfger> it was a subtle statement... "no-meat on Fridays is baloney"
<wolfger> Did they call you Baloney Maloney?
<snap-l> wolfger: Ever since first grade, thank you.
<wolfger> children and moms are so cruel
<snap-l> Though one of the coaches shared my last name
<snap-l> so people naturally assumed we were related.
<snap-l> didn't help that he also had reddish hair
<snap-l> Coach Edward maloney
<wolfger> "why does the coach's son suck at sports?"
<snap-l> I'm sure that came up a few times.
<brousch> and what's their secret baloney connection?
<snap-l> Why is he in band
<wolfger> snap-l: the orignal Glee
<wolfger> did you get slushied a lot?
<snap-l> I don't sing in public. :)
<snap-l> If they had an American Idol for drummers, I'd totally be there. :)
<wolfger> poor JoDee
<wolfger> because I know what the "in public" attachment means...
<snap-l> wolfger: Well, lets just say one year people got a taste of me trying to sing Ashes to Ashes by David Bowie
<wolfger> If you don't sing, you don't sing. If you don't sing in public, the people who live with you suffer.
<snap-l> (at Penguicon)
<wolfger> when is Penguicon, anyway?
<wolfger> I feel like it should be here soon
<wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: Yeah, wasn't this just the pre-show?
<wolfger> feels like it.
<wolfger> it just.... was *less* than usual, somehow
<wolfger> partly because I was tired and in bed earlier than normal (for con) every night
<ColonelPanic001> Saturday night was the best Pcon Saturday night I've ever had.
<ColonelPanic001> Then again, I drank more than usual, might be related.
<wolfger> but even aside from the missed parties, it felt like the days just flew by without much happening
<ColonelPanic001> but I was right behind the actual romans when they paraded through the lobby, I watched a drunken nerd wrestle a viking to the ground in the hotel hallways, and was there when packed Hallway by the romans all sang "Piano Man" at screaming-sound-levels. It was a good night.
<snap-l> Yeah, I did the panels I was involved with, the Smithee Awards, and the Unity panel
<ColonelPanic001> I did a few offbeat ones. "Something About Dopamine" was really good
<ColonelPanic001> the Killer Android one was okay
<ColonelPanic001> Apartment-Friendly Composting was neat, although I doubt I'll try it myself.
<snap-l> Yeah, my biggest complaint would be that the good talks were opposite my talks.
<snap-l> good tech talks, rather
<ColonelPanic001> they did tend to cluster together
<brousch> greg-g: Do you know if there's a way to order the photos that get displayed here? http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
<brousch> I think it's showing mine first because my username is first alphabetically
<snap-l> Man, I love Google Voice
<snap-l> I've set some annoying idiots to go to voicemail (Bank of America advertisers)
<snap-l> Just save the contact, set "send directly to voice mail", and I don't have to hear a thing.
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, the dopamine panel was very interesting
<wolfger> my favorite was the molecular gastronomy panel, though (ever so slightly)
<wolfger> I want to make little spheres of Bailey's Irish Cream now
<ColonelPanic001> last year there was one or two about neural networks that was really good
<wolfger> the panel on dopamine explains why I enjoy a bad day at work more than a normal boring day at work.
<wolfger> "Everything's breaking! Yay, dopamine!" :-p
<binbrain> really odd that attachmate kicks suse over to germany, curious decision
<snap-l> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/coffee <- I love the "Caffeine: How it works" section of this comic.
<wolfger> I love the dancing goats graphic
<snap-l> wolfger: You can get to that?
<snap-l> Praise be.
<ColonelPanic001> official tea for Pcon next year?: http://www.adagio.com/signature_blend/blend.html?blend=13805
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Heh
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/skyline-furniture-armless-accent-chair-esprit-pear/_/R-183409 <- Oh wow, I need 12 of these
<wolfger> snap-l: this firewall's idea of what is ok and what is not truly boggles the mind...
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't understand it
<snap-l> unless one of the VPs needs their fix of The Oatmeal
<_stink_> man, the Oatmeal is really good.
<snap-l> after all, he's a published author, you know.
<snap-l> So, it's legitimate, or something
<greg-g> brousch: no clue :/
<greg-g> brousch: I'm not the happiest with how they display those photos, but, whatevs right now
<brousch> ok
<brousch> looks like default sorting for the group
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h__> http://chrisaitchison.com/2011/05/03/you-are-not-a-software-engineer
<rick_h__> for the software peep out there
<snap-l> Does this mean I don't get to wear the striped hat, and can't blow the whistle?
<wolfger> I *almost* stopped reading before it started making a little sense.
<wolfger> He's really stretching a metaphor. Because if you don't plan out "where the petals and leaves will be", your software design scares me.
<wolfger> haphazard software is not good. I should know... I've written it. :-p
<brousch> coming from the construction industry, the finished building will not look exactly as the architect envisions it
<brousch> often because their vision costs too much or is physically impractical
<rick_h__> meh, especially if you're agile/agilish, you plan out the big parts
<rick_h__> color scheme of the garden, layout, tall/small plants
<rick_h__> but it comes out as you work it
<wolfger> Right. If you think everything that gets engineered comes out looking like the first blueprint, you're clearly a fool who's never seen what engineering is really like.
<rick_h__> you can play it any way, found it interesting
<rick_h__> I mean, we don't have to do match on 'will the total structure support the weight of itself...as final weight"
<rick_h__> we miss calculate some load numbers we refactor
<wolfger> I've been on this one plant launch for 2 years now, and they are still making changes, even though we're "in production". Engineering is a lot more like gardening than this guy thinks.
<rick_h__> they forget to count the weight of the drywall...well uh oh
<wolfger> now if you're writing unique code from scratch, which is a rarity in the professional world, then the gardener metaphor works better... but in my experience, professional coding is much more like taking pre-made bricks of code and arranging them in a blueprinted formation.
<rick_h__> heh, and I can compare that to planting a garden with purchased plants
<rick_h__> you build off blocks
<wolfger> unless your code grows while you're sleeping, I think the gardening metaphor fails ;-)
<wolfger> and if it does....
<wolfger> skynet is becoming self-aware. Destroy it now.
<brousch> OSS software grows while you sleep, assuming you have developers in other countries
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> well, now you are getting into a cat-herding metaphor :-D
<rick_h__> cats like gardens
<wolfger> touche
<wolfger> a program is not a work of engineering.... it's cat-scratch
<wolfger> seeing the apps here at Chrysler supports that theory 100%
<snap-l> Seeing the code at Chrysler gives me faith inreverse evolution
<snap-l> the theory of survival of the fittest is bunk over there.
<wolfger> evidence #1, the TTTS self-service website. I get dangerously close to having a stroke and/or aneurism every time I use it.
<wolfger> because the first thing you have to do is select an application, even though selecting an application is something you have to page down to get to
<wolfger> and you know you have to, because a popup box tells you so
<wolfger> rather than, you know, just popping up a box with the selection dialog
<snap-l> That TTS system is garbage
<wolfger> so you have to click ok on the box, click the selection dialog button, do a search for the application group code even if you know it by heart and did need the search dialog at all...
<wolfger> then as soon as you get done with that, another pop-up says "hey, check your contact info to make sure it's right"
<wolfger> even if you just went through all this 30 seconds ago
<snap-l> I have to say, most ticket tracking systems are garbage
<wolfger> I have "checked my contact info" as many as 6 times in a single day before
<snap-l> and corporate catch-all systems are the worst.
<wolfger> TTTS makes Bugzilla look elegant
<snap-l> I agree, and I hate Bugzilla with a fiery passion
<snap-l> Nothing say "we hate our users" more than Bugzilla
<wolfger> This isn't a garden, it's an abandoned lot.
<wolfger> all stinkweed and danylions
<wolfger> and bugs
<greg-g> rick_h__: ok if I tweet/dent: "Announcing the new combo Ubuntu Hour/Coffee House Coders in Detroit, MI http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/events !UbuntuMichigan"
<snap-l> wolfger: And every three months, they send someone to groom it, so it isn't considered abandoned and reposessed. ;)
<rick_h__> greg-g: sure thing, though was debating on the "new" thing
<rick_h__> was trying to figure out a way to word it so that it was clear it's been going down for a while
<rick_h__> just not named right
<rick_h__> greg-g: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/312/ ??
<rick_h__> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/313/ or maybe
<snap-l> I like the second one
<greg-g> ditto
<rick_h__> greg-g: cool, I'll post and then you want to RT?
<rick_h__> or was it something you wanted to post?
<greg-g> either way..... Mind me?
<rick_h__> not at all
 * greg-g shryugs
<greg-g> posted
<ColonelPanic001> I RTed.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm sure all two of my linux-related followers will read it
<rick_h__> now we just have to keep too many new people from finding out
<rick_h__> or I'll have to break down and get a real venue
<brousch> put it on the ubuntu-mi mailing list
<rick_h__> brousch: stop helping
<brousch> it will be awesome when 30 people show up for the next meeting
<rick_h__> yea, don't think that whole cofee house holds 30 people
<brousch> standing room only. everyone balancing their laptop on one raised knee, typing with one hand, and holding their coffee in the other
<ColonelPanic001> our problem at Downriver CHC (read: me and a former coworker) is that the coffeehouse is nice, but has a really flaky internet connection
<rick_h__> yea, ours can get bad
<brousch> rick_h__ will tether them all on his phone
<rick_h__> when I get my 4g
<ColonelPanic001> often we resort to just him putting up a wireless net on his phone. yeah
<snap-l> Yeah, some evenings we have way too many people there.
<snap-l> Not that I'm complaining
<brousch> finding bigger coffeehouses can be a problem
<rick_h__> yea, you get big enough you rent a room...but then no beverages
<brousch> you could encourage people to form smaller groups at various locations
<snap-l> And then you get into dues, and pretty soon you're having board meetings.
<rick_h__> that's no fun
<rick_h__> you never know what the topic is going to be
<brousch> who rally wants to drive 30 minutes for an hour meeting?
<rick_h__> *ahem*
<rick_h__> it's two hours and I do it every week kthx
<brousch> with the rename you will have to cut the meeting time down
<rick_h__> 12/27 is my upgrade...man end end of the year
<brousch> chc meets 7-9?
<rick_h__> 8-10
<rick_h__> 7-10 on the last one of the week
<rick_h__> last week of the month that is
<brousch> i want to do one, but i want it to start after my son goes to bed. so it would be 8:30 â 10 probably
<brousch> seems so late
<rick_h__> yea, it's my latest night of the week
<rick_h__> but nice to have that scheduled hacking time every week
<brousch> i se there's one in lansing now, so GR is the next logical location
<brousch> i just realized we have the perfect spot for a CHC
<brousch> and it would actually scale to 30+ pople easily
<snap-l> "I used to think that PHP was the biggest, stinkiest dump that the computer industry had taken on my life in a decade. Then I started needing to do things that could only be accomplished in AppleScript."
<snap-l> --jwz
<brousch> wow
<ColonelPanic001> "PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil, perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals."
<ColonelPanic001> my favorite
<snap-l> And Java is just a miserable mess
<greg-g> brousch: awesome re: perfect CHC location, do it! ;)
<brousch> i'm talking it over with the venue owners
<brousch> they don't technically have a cafe yet
<brousch> have to bring ur own coffee
<snap-l> http://spaz.spreadshirt.com/what-the-fuck-is-adobe-flash-A6003474/customize/color/2
<snap-l> http://steveire.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/octef.jpg
<jordon_> apple "geniouses" should wear that shirt
<binbrain> I feel like I'm back in 1999, boxing with linux drivers all day
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-05
<greg-g> oh, jordon left :/
<TeamXlink> Someone else has accessed my gmail account, I've found the address via the IP and changed my password, but what else should I do?
<_stink_> TeamXlink: if that same password is used anywhere else, change it in those other places
<TeamXlink> Alright, I will.
<TeamXlink> Thank you.
<TeamXlink> Anything else I should do as well?
<greg-g> TeamXlink: make sure to not use non-https sites when transmitting your password
<rick_h__> woot, I can haz new mug.org
<rick_h__> Blazeix: feature request, anchor tags for the groups and such
<rick_h__> hmm, and guess I should write up something new for CHC to help with the branding
<Blazeix> rick_h__: where would the anchor tags link to? intrapage links?
<rick_h__> yea, just immediatelyh went to link to the CHC group section of the page in irc
<rick_h__> like a wiki/docs
<rick_h__> guess too used to sphinx docs atm
<rick_h__> if I were to use that page to link to a group, it would be cool to grab the anchor to that group on the page
<Blazeix> gotcha
<Blazeix> rick_h__: ok, poorman's anchor tags: http://www.mug.org/groups/#CHC
<Blazeix> I'll get a UI up there in a bit
<rick_h__> :) awesome
<rick_h__> no hurry obviously. Talk about the finer points
<rick_h__> I cheat all the time and use dev tools to inspect for them sans-ui all the time
<Blazeix> yeah, I find myself doing that too. specially when sending web documentation to other people
<rick_h__> http://blog.lastpass.com/2011/05/lastpass-security-notification.html
<rick_h__> I hate humanity that is all... *sigh*
<snap-l> rick_h__: I wonder how much of this is fallout from the attacks of last year.
<snap-l> ie: we're able to get to blah, so the rest just fall like dominoes
<snap-l> On another note, I'm loving how the doomsday scenario for Mono is coming true
<snap-l> except it's Oracle and Java, not Microsoft and .Net.
<rick_h__> http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/05/google-javascript-chrome/ love this one
<rick_h__> snap-l: I have no idea what's up. But at least when it was sony/dsl reports it wasn't crap I used
<rick_h__> I moved to lastpass because I was trying to be better about security/passwords
<snap-l> rick_h__: I was thinking about it as well
<rick_h__> and this whole "they maybe got stuff, but surely not your passwords you store" makes me very very nervous
<rick_h__> I mean, sure, the first thing I did was to go redo my master password with 2x the characters
<snap-l> and I've come to the determination that the cloud is where you put things that you know will eventually get shared without your permission
<rick_h__> but still, it's almost crazy to go change every password I have in lastpassword
<wolfger> *yawn*
<wolfger> somebody help me stay awake, plz
<snap-l> beer
<snap-l> at the end of the day, there's beer.
<wolfger> beer would put me to sleep
<snap-l> right, but the promise of beer should keep you awake
<wolfger> and beer at the end of the day does nothing to incent me to stay awake *until* the end of the day... in fact, it makes me want a nap so that the first beer I drink doesn't put me to sleep.
<wolfger> ...and I'm already drinking coffee... not good enough
<wolfger> 20 oz of coffee and a 5-hour energy, and I'm barely conscious... :-p
<snap-l> Man, sometimes I wonder why I get tracking numbers from the post office
<snap-l> Got a package that apparently doesn't exist.
<snap-l> Oh, nice
<snap-l> They're using something called "Newgistics"
<snap-l> no wonder the post office has NFC what it is. ;)
<wolfger> Newgistics?
<wolfger> Because it's new, and not logical?
<snap-l> http://www.newgistics.com/
<snap-l> http://www.newgistics.com/corp_partners/alliances.aspx <- I <3 the clipart on this page
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> "I'm so strong, I crush your package with my biceps alone"
<wolfger> we're going to box <clap> you up!
<greg-g> yes, I'm in some sort of hell where I have to seriously consider doing this: http://www.qimacros.com/free-excel-tips/excel-merge-worsheets.html
<snap-l> greg-g: Congratulations. You're using Excel for it's intended purpose. ;)
<wolfger> $200 for a specialty app? Egads!
<snap-l> Um, wait... no, you're not
<snap-l> Excel is not mail-merge. :)
<wolfger> I don't even like to pay that much for the entire OS
<wolfger> http://www3.activestate.com/index.php/email/emailWebview?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonsqvJZKXonjHpfsX66%2BwoUaCzlMI%2F0ER3fOvrPUfGjI4AS8RmI%2FqLAzICFpZo2FFZGfScaoVT7vRJDg%3D%3D
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, kinda, only, merging two things based on a common key would be soooo much more easy with a db, I'm assuming :), this VLOOKUP bs is just nasty
<brousch> greg-g: http://www.python-excel.org/
<snap-l> greg-g: Yes.
<wolfger> I've read that twice, and I still don't understand what an "enterprise cloud platform for Python and Perl applications" really is.
<wolfger> I mean.... cgi-bin is a "cloud" platform for perl apps.....
<greg-g> brousch: omg!
<brousch> yes, it is a beautiful thing
<brousch> i use it to parse our 401k exports from quickbooks to csv our provider can understand
<jrwren> snap-l: you are actually loving how the doomsday scenario for mono is coming true?
<snap-l> No, not at al
<jrwren> or you are loving how stupid the internets are to overract, jump to conclusions and trust a suspect news report from an unreliable outlet?
<snap-l> but I'm loving that the players aren't who they thought it would be
<jrwren> snap-l: OH!... except its oracle and java... zomg I get it now.  U R smart!
<jrwren> snap-l: holy shit, I never really thought about just how similar the scenario is!
<jrwren> but oracle isn't suing over patents right? they are more abusing the open core model.
<snap-l> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/05/oracle_subpoena_asf_android_harmony/
<jrwren> snap-l: high five!
 * ColonelPanic001 is about to install Natty (Kubuntu)
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Good luck!
<snap-l> jrwren: https://twitter.com/#!/squeekyhoho/statuses/66113852651216896
<ColonelPanic001> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/05/04/1511253/Chinese-iPad-Factory-Staff-Forced-To-Sign-No-Suicide-Pledge
<_stink_> what's the penalty for breaking the pledge?
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, that'll work
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: execution
<_stink_> how inhumane!
<snap-l> _stink_: likely your family won't be compensated
<_stink_> gah
<snap-l> which could be enough of a deterrent
<snap-l> Also, you'd bring dishonor for not obeying the pledge
<_stink_> snap-l: bingo, "they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages
<_stink_> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382396/Workers-Chinese-Apple-factories-forced-sign-pledges-commit-suicide.html#ixzz1LU7aQAB1
<_stink_> oops
<_stink_> sry bad paste
<ColonelPanic001> at least you didn't accidently paste filenames of pr0n videos
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't done that. >_>
<_stink_> or the second chapter of my raunchy romance novel
<ColonelPanic001> pastebin plz
<snap-l> Nah, chapter 4. Everyone knows the first three chapters are just filler
<snap-l> so I've been told
<_stink_> i guess i need an editor
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/1919.png
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: There's something to be said about a factory that even thinks they need a no-suicide pledge for the people who work there.
<snap-l> wolfger: ++
<snap-l> I <3 working with Java developers that use Windows.
<snap-l> Got a lovely little .bat script that I need to modify to make work
<brousch> not a beanshell script?
<snap-l> Give me a break.
<binbrain> these guys have great Ubnutn support http://www.alfa.com.tw/in/front/bin/ptlist.phtml?Category=105415
<snap-l> I love it when I see people rate something as 1 out of 5 stars, when they mean to rate it 5 stars
<snap-l> Seller was awesome! 1 star!
<wolfger> heh
<Blazeix> I know this probably isn't the right channel, but oh my god is microsoft's MVC framework awesome.
<Blazeix> from what little I've seen so far
<Blazeix> they're using the 'dynamic' keyword a lot, so it's basically resembles python coding.
<Blazeix> also cool, MVC defaults to using HTML5 and modernizr.js
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/h4c23/is_mono_dead_is_novell_dying/c1shs04
<snap-l> I can't takes no more
<jrwren> Blazeix: it is awesome :)
<jrwren> but I haven't seen where MVC3 really uses dynamic a lot.
<jrwren> I've seen where Web Pages and Web Matrix use it.
<Blazeix> well, I opened up the basic tutorial, and the viewbag is dynamic
<Blazeix> so you can go ViewBag.foo = "bar", and foo is available in your view
<jrwren> ah, nice.
<jrwren> I still like strong types.
<Blazeix> so they might not use it extensively, but you're definitely hit in the face with it first thing :)
<jrwren> but I guess with Razor being dynamic it makes sense that the view data be dynamic
<Milyardo> Hrmmm... I'm slightly uncomfertable with Ubuntu One arbitrarily segmenting access to content over a different medium in the case of its Mobile plan, anyone know the reasoning behind it?
<snap-l> The subscriptions?
<Milyardo> ?
<snap-l> Ubuntu One mobile is subscription based
<snap-l> You have to pay 3.99 to use the music client
<snap-l> (per month)
<jjesse> to stream to my phone i have to pay a month charge?
<snap-l> Or you can pay per year
<snap-l> and yes. :)
<jjesse> bummer i'll stick w/ amazon's cloud player
<snap-l> Yeah, I installed the client on my iPhone, and noticed it was a separate charge
<snap-l> frankly, that killed the enthusiasm right there
<Milyardo> Yeah that was the question, why segment out a subscription model just because I'm acessing content via a different medium?
<snap-l> Milyardo: Probably to pay for development of the iphone / android app?
<snap-l> Dunno for sure
<snap-l> Personally, I'd be happier with paying a little more for the disk space, and getting the streaming as a bonus
<snap-l> compared with Drop Box, Ubuntu One is cheaper
<Milyardo> Well put a charge for the Application in their repsective Markets I guess then
<jjesse> but amazon cloud drive for 20gigs is currently cheaper :)
<jjesse> $5 cd and 20 gigs of disk space
<snap-l> jjesse: Only a matter of time
<jjesse> upload music to my amazon cloud player and then stream for free over my phone
<snap-l> jjesse: Just install Ubuntu on your phone. Then you'll have Banshee. ;)
<jjesse> i'm sure thats easy :)
<brousch> and battery-efficient
<snap-l> But it can't hibernate
<Milyardo> snap-l: but it boots so quickly!
<snap-l> Man, Windows XP's update mechanism on this machine is terrible
<snap-l> keeps popping up a "New programs are ready to be installed at xx:xx"
<brousch> xx:xx?
<snap-l> Time
<snap-l> I really hate Java: http://blogs.sun.com/ritzmann/entry/metro_2_0_on_java
<snap-l> Also: http://jax-ws.java.net/faq/index.html#2.1with_se5_se6
<snap-l> Approaching nerd rage: http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/h4c23/is_mono_dead_is_novell_dying/c1shs04
<brousch> wow, i didn't know rackspace was killing slicehost. i just shut down my last slice like 2 months ago
<snap-l> Never thought I'd be defending Mono, but I'm getting really tired of people not seeing the bigger threat in front of them
<brousch> snap-l: you're frothing
<brousch> we might have to have you put down
<snap-l> You're damn right I am
 * brousch preps the shot gun and looks for a shed
<jjesse> can you live stream your explosion?
<snap-l> jjesse: Nah, but I'll definitely videotape it
<jjesse> awesome
<rick_h__> did I miass anything?
<snap-l> hey rick_h__
<rick_h__> and owwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<snap-l> how are things over there?
<rick_h__> the frenectomy is hurting more than the wisdom teeth
<snap-l> lingual or labial?
<_stink_> rick_h__: oh man, major mouth surgery?
<rick_h__> well, was all birds with one stone
<snap-l> also, wikipedia's frenectomy page? NSFW
<rick_h__> and things are starting to wear off, ouch
<_stink_> snap-l: thank you for the warning, i was about to click it
<rick_h__> ouch
<_stink_> rick_h__: wisdom teeth out?
<rick_h__> well that explains all the blood
<rick_h__> yea, 4 wisdom's and the frenectomy todya
<_stink_> damn... i need mine out.
<rick_h__> yea, I've put it off for years
<rick_h__> and finally had to do it
<_stink_> same boat as me.
<_stink_> :/
<rick_h__> heh, well glad I'm not the last one out there I guess
<brousch> frenectomy? you're getting gene simmons tongue?
<rick_h__> heh not quite
<brousch> i have all my wisdom teeth. they fit fine
<rick_h__> getting my lip detached from my gums
<rick_h__> 3 of mine are gone sideways
<brousch> the dentist complains every cleaning, "i can't get back to those wisdom teeth, you should have them out"
<rick_h__> yea, that's been a pain as well
<rick_h__> trying to keep them clean
<brousch> um, no, i'm not pulling my teeth just to make your job a little easier
<rick_h__> started to get a cavity in one at the last visit
<brousch> right, so you had a reason
<rick_h__> yea, I've been putting it off for years
<rick_h__> pay the piper
<brousch> so what's with the lip thing?
<rick_h__> gap in my teeth is due to that muscle being too big/strong and pulling against them
<rick_h__> dangerous long term and can pull teeth out somewhat and open gaps in gums
<brousch> fascinating
<rick_h__> you should have gone into oral surgery :P
<brousch> no, i get squeemish when i have to cut something alive
<_stink_> same here
<_stink_> i can't even think about it
<brousch> i can look at it all day, but can't do it
<jrwren> snap-l: thanks for relinking that reddit shit so I can up and down vote appropriately :)
<snap-l> jrwren: This guy hit my breaking point
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/h4c23/is_mono_dead_is_novell_dying/c1sn65y
<snap-l> Not going to go so far as calling him an idiot, but he's being disingenuous
<Team-Xlink> Does anyone know of an online archive of roguesci?
<snap-l> Need a hint what that is.
<snap-l> Oh, you mean the Anarchist's Cookbook sort of thing
<snap-l> I'm about 20 years away from being curious about that sort of thing. ;)
<Team-Xlink> Well it was a website that was much more valid then the Anarchist's Cookbook, (Or so I've been told, RogueSci was down before I knew about it.).
<Team-Xlink> ./nick TeamXlink
<snap-l> Hey DBO
<snap-l> Just wanted to thank you for the push for Unity
<snap-l> Lots of good stuff at the last minute. :)
<DBO> :)
<DBO> twas not easy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-06
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/rAW/
<snap-l> It has arrived, and it is still awesome. :)
<rick_h__> still loading
<rick_h__> that is one big pdf
<snap-l> Yeah, it is
<snap-l> It's the third printing
<snap-l> Fully CC licensed. No need for disclaimers
<greg-g> pretty
<snap-l> Yeah, I've been kicking around using the mechanics and artwork and making a video game
<snap-l> The setting is awesome, and the folks who make it seem genuinely cool with people using the stuff
<snap-l> Definitely a change from some of the shithead moves of other companies.
<PainBank> nice
<PainBank> snap-l: wish I would have caught the question or discussion before a few minutes ago.
<PainBank> ah well.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/rAW/
<snap-l> PainBank: ^^ PDF File. ;)
<snap-l> Fully CC licensed. No need for disclaimers
<PainBank> thnx
<snap-l> np
<PainBank> snap-l: wow, 400 page doc... that is quite an extensive game.
<PainBank> so what are you doing on it?
<snap-l> Nothing yet, but I have some ideas percolating
<PainBank> hmmm...
<PainBank> but right now, this is a RPG for pen/paper, right?
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h__> party time
<snap-l> rick_h__: More drugs?
<rick_h__> naw, meant your game
<snap-l> Oh, yeah
<rick_h__> I'm on a constant drug barage
<rick_h__> but the big ones are slowly wearing off
<rick_h__> so at times almost feel nomrla
<rick_h__> normal
<rick_h__> until I have to "drink my dinner"
<rick_h__> and the ouch that brings
<rick_h__> snap-l: so do you have a crew you play these games with?
<PainBank> until the normla wears off, I like it
<rick_h__> club or someting?
<snap-l> No, I don't.
<snap-l> JoDee and I have played a few of them
<snap-l> but mostly I mine them for ideas
<rick_h__> cool
<PainBank> makes me think old school scifi rpg like Star Frontiers
<PainBank> or gamma world
<snap-l> Yeah, but a lot darker than those games
<PainBank> snap-l: so are you chatting with the folks at Posthuman Studios?
<snap-l> I asked them if I could help them do a case study for Creative Commons
<PainBank> I enjoyed Shadowrun and if it has some basis from there... cool
<PainBank> sweet
<snap-l> Um, they used to be a part of Catalyst Game Labs
<snap-l> worked on Shadowrun 4th
<PainBank> yup
<snap-l> They split off, though, because of some stupidity at catalyst
<snap-l> mostly mixing of funds with personal goals
<snap-l> (on the Catalyst side)
<PainBank> sure, and that sucks.
<PainBank> well, time for me to head home.
<PainBank> talk to you all later
<snap-l> I <3 Java
<snap-l> I'm being told to use JDK 1.5 because it doesn't ship with JAXWS.
<brousch> good to see you've come around
<snap-l> Never mind that JDK 1.5 was last supported in 2009
<brousch> welcome to the enterprise
<brousch> giant apps built on crusty old stable platforms
<snap-l> Yeah, and I get to install my own Java
<snap-l> FML
<wolfger> morning, peeps
<rick_h__> ugh, morning
<_stink_> heh
<brousch> fucking windows
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> and yes
<snap-l> Yay for morning webcasts
<snap-l> Love that they use music that sounds like it should be playing at the Rainforest Cafe.
<wolfger> so if you are making an IM client...and specifically branding it for office use (say, by calling it Office Communicator as a wild example)... would you ever even consider making "(s)" display a moon-smiley?
<snap-l> communicator does that?
<wolfger> I mean, what's more common for office use, denoting something(s) as optionally plural, or wanting to display a moon?
<wolfger> yes, OC does that
<wolfger> and I'm glad I was only chatting with my friend, and not, say, the head of my department
<wolfger> because it looks terribly unprofessional
<snap-l> I'm not seeing that one.
<wolfger> Maybe it's special Chrysler rules?  O.o
<snap-l> I do love, thhough, that all yesterday this update program was bitching me out that it was going to install something
<snap-l> and now this fine morning, during a webcast, it decides to start loading
<wolfger> this is OC 2007 R2, fwiw
<snap-l> I hope it decides to restart my machine without telling me, because that would be awesome
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> Yeah, we're only on 2005
<wolfger> that would be full of win and covered in awesome sauce, it would
<snap-l> With bacon
<wolfger> so sometime between 2005 and 2007, MS forgot they were designing an office product....
<wolfger> ...or the avg professional level of offices around the country plummeted
<wolfger> I can believe either, really.
<jrwren> why fucking windows?
<jrwren> snap-l: rofl @ jdk1.5
<snap-l> jrwren: Seriously, Java is pathetic
<brousch> jrwren: user has a virus this morning. other users have missing references due to some people on win7 and some on xp
<brousch> i was hoping to get some real work done
<jrwren> snap-l: oh, I know it is.  But its nice to hear you say it.
<snap-l> jrwren: When have I apologized for Java?
<snap-l> I used to like it, but it's become a miserable mess. :)
<snap-l> It's impossible to know what to do without serious help
<jrwren> its still nice to hear.
<jrwren> somethings just don't get tired.
<snap-l> heh
<wolfger> LOL. I just don't understand sports nuts sometimes.
<wolfger> I don't understand why people get so excited about the NFL draft in the first place...
<jrwren> i could explain it.
<wolfger> but leading up to this year's draft, Sports Illustrated published at least 3 (I'm thinking 5 or 6) projections of which team would take which player
<wolfger> and they were wrong
<wolfger> and today, they have online "early projections for the 2012 draft". WTF???
<wolfger> You don't even know yet what order the teams will be picking in.
<wolfger> slow news day in the sports world?
<ColonelPanic001> "lol our local franchise of a business defeated another local franchise of the same business. yay!"
<ColonelPanic001> "they're our team! they represent us! None of them had ever been here before being hired!"
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> Kinda like having national pride in the armed forces if they were mostly foreign mercenaries....
<wolfger> but, no, that part I understand. :-)
<wolfger> even if it's nonsensical
<ColonelPanic001> actually getting excited or enthusiastic about professional sports is just stupid
<ColonelPanic001> "The Red Wings are our team! All of those Russians and Canadians are *our* people"
<ColonelPanic001> the obscene paycheck has nothing to do with it
<wolfger> the paycheck always has everything to do with it, whether it's sports, IT, factory work, flipping burgers....
<wolfger> You can say the armed forces are doing it to serve their country, but notice how they all still take a paycheck...
<wolfger> and ask yourself, if they stopped getting them, how long would they keep serving their country?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't see anything there to disagree with.
<wolfger> so the fact that we're paying them to represent us doesn't change the fact that they represent us.
<ColonelPanic001> no, but in the case of sports, that's why they're there. It has nothing to do with the team, place. They're traded around like commodities
<wolfger> when they do good, we feel good about ourselves, and when they do bad.... they suck and we need a new team. :-D
<ColonelPanic001> I have as much reason to cheer for Arizona's team as I do for "ours", except for a slight bump in local economy from home games, maybe.
<ColonelPanic001> Why feel good about myself if the Wings do well? What do they have to do with me, other than happening to play half their games here?
<snap-l> Imagine what we could do if we funnelled all of the pro sports money into the arts?
<snap-l> Like the DSO, for instance
<ColonelPanic001> ^
<wolfger> The bolster Detroit's economy and Detroit's image.
<ColonelPanic001> or having a school system that isn't complete shit.
<wolfger> Hmm. So, how would the DSO benefit us?
<ColonelPanic001> but no, let's pay Federov nearly 100 million dollars to hit a puck
<ColonelPanic001> (I might be a bit behind in my sports news)
<wolfger> ROFL
<wolfger> a bit
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, just a hair
<jrwren> sports is more fun to watch.
<jrwren> its entertainment.
<ColonelPanic001> I'd rather watch high school kids play.
<jrwren> people like being entertained.
<jrwren> what is the big deal?
<snap-l> I'm glad yu didn't say "Gordie Howe"
<ColonelPanic001> the cost.
<snap-l> The $$
<jrwren> cost to whom?
<snap-l> And the assinine way that teams go about patrolling their trademarks
<snap-l> jrwren: Stadium money doesn't just come from rich philanthropists.
<jrwren> that is cities faults.
<ColonelPanic001> or more shewdly for me, having to hear people never shut the hell up about sports. heh.
<jrwren> it SHOULd just come from rich philanthropists.
<jrwren> but now we are talking politics and not sports :)
<jrwren> you have 2 legs that work. don't want to hear it?  walk away.
<wolfger> jrwren++
<snap-l> And we're also seeing the corruption of colleges with the NCAA
<ColonelPanic001> i maked teh joke
<ColonelPanic001> im srry
<snap-l> where money comes out of other programs
<wolfger> snap-l: ???
<wolfger> NCAA football is a cash cow
<snap-l> precisely
<snap-l> It's not about love of the game, it's about following the paycheck
<ColonelPanic001> moo.
<wolfger> the schools make obscene amounts of money off a successful team, they don't sink money into it from other programs
<snap-l> Like the Olympics used to be about amateur atheletes
<snap-l> That was until we sent folks like Michael Jordan to play
<wolfger> It's (I believe, not sure) nearly as much revenue as pro sports, and they're not *allowed* to pay the players anything.
<wolfger> What a scam that is!
<jrwren> but $$$ doesn't come out of other programs.  it goes into other programs.
<jrwren> unless you are ohio state :)
<wolfger> snap-l: the olympics were about "amateurs" in the sense that other countries did have "pros" and we did.
<wolfger> but they had pro-qualitiy athletes
<snap-l> Right, the line got blurred. I get that
<wolfger> the line was a scam to begin with
<snap-l> My beef is that suddenly nobody cared to hide it
<snap-l> I hate the Olympics anyway, so I'm biased.
<wolfger> "if you want to be an olympian, you can't accept money". Big scam.
<wolfger> I believe the olympics used to be a great idea.... back when they were first invented.
<snap-l> The olympics, where everyone is a farm kid from Oaklahoma with a blind and deaf mother and father, two dyslexic siblings, and a cat on three legs
<snap-l> but they had a dream.
<wolfger> back in the days when a marathon was run out of necessity rather than for exercise or some cracked idea of "fun".
<ColonelPanic001> I would like to see the three-legged-cat Olympics.
<snap-l> Inspirational stories become much less inspirational when everyone has an inspirational story to tell
<snap-l> And considering everyone is there by the grace of God and sponsorships, there's plenty to go around
<_stink_> wonder what inspirational story they'd come up with for me
<snap-l> so stop your yammering and show fucking curling already.
<_stink_> "grew up kind of scrawny with kind of red hair"
<jrwren> I have an inspirational story to tell.
<jrwren> you don't have one?
<snap-l> Craig grew up like most boys his age, awkward, funny looking, and a social outcast
<jrwren> EXACTLY!
<jrwren> ZOMg, i hated the insp story when teh curling match was coming up.
<jrwren> esp when it was canada playing.
<snap-l> It's the same witht he news and the "michigan connection"
<wolfger> snap-l: your description of the olympics sounds earily like every single season of American Idol
<snap-l> Channel 4 is great for finding one person who happens to have a relative living in MI
<snap-l> Horriffic accident in Antartica. Here's the Michigan connection
<ColonelPanic001> "the bolts in the airplane are from Flint"
<brousch> eh, we were in southern canada, so we didn't have ice for 3 months out of the year. we'd spill a gallon of my dad's used motor oil out in da yard and slide my ma's pots as pans as we couldn't afford stones
<wolfger> Osama bin Laden has been killed. We talk to his Michigan relatives
<snap-l> wolfger: BINGO
<snap-l> The man's dad had 52 children
<ColonelPanic001> "The bullet was made with steel that was made at Great Lakes Steel"
<snap-l> You're bound to find at least 3 of them in Dearborn, I'm sure
<snap-l> The man was found with a 2 litre of Vernors, which used to be made in Michigan near the Beter Made Plant
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<wolfger> used to be?
<wolfger> Vernor's isn't Michigan made anymore?
<snap-l> wolfger: Hasn't been for a while now, iirc
<ColonelPanic001> it's not even made with ginger anymore
<wolfger> :-(
<_stink_> call Channel 4
<_stink_> they'll do a story on it
<snap-l> The flagship Detroit bottling plant was shut down by United Brands in 1985, with the local rights to bottle Vernors granted to Pepsi-Cola.[5]
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernors
<snap-l> http://www.drpeppersnapplegroup.com/brands/vernors/
 * snap-l schedules grief counseling for wolfger 
<Milyardo> awesome domain
<Milyardo> drpeppersnapplegroup.com that is
<snap-l> Milyardo: Yeah, just trips off of the tongue, doesn't it?
<snap-l> OK, off to do something awesome. brb.
<brousch> we don't need to know when you take potty breaks
<ColonelPanic001> speak for yourself.
<ColonelPanic001> I prefer frequent, detailed updated
<ColonelPanic001> updates, rather
<brousch> what are you, his doctor?
<ColonelPanic001> I just like to be kept in the loop
<wolfger> Faygo is still made here, at least
<wolfger> actually going to a restaurant tonight that recently opened, that features food/drink from Michigan (primarily, not exclusively)
<Milyardo> and Jone's I think
<wolfger> I had no idea Jones was from MI
<wolfger> http://www.freep.com/article/20110505/COL20/105050315/Twisted-Rooster-chain-launches-Chesterfield-Township?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p
<Milyardo> Yeah all those black and white pics on the bottles are from different parts of MI
<Milyardo> They come up here to U of M to take picutres all the time
<wolfger> well, I was aware you could submit pics to Jones for their use... I just thought some Michigan photographer was a big contributor
<Krondor> pepsi is made here in a flint bottling plant (last I checked)
<Milyardo> Krondor: You live in Flint?
<Krondor> Aww my first askubuntu question drifts off into obscurity with no votes
<Krondor> Milyardo:  nope royal oak
<Milyardo> No idea where that is
<Krondor> Near detroit southern oakland county
<jrwren> wtf is twisted rooster?
<jrwren> never heard of royal oak?  ha!
<ColonelPanic001> Twisted Rooster == Screwed Up Cock
<_stink_> or Crooked Cock.
<wolfger> jrwren: you could... I don't know.... click the link and find out what it is.
<wolfger> or infer from my previous statement
<wolfger> well, ok, 2 statements previous
<wolfger> as the immediate predecessor was a reply to something somebody else said
<jrwren> terrible article title.
<jrwren> because I don't like "chain" erstaurants.
<jrwren> but 2 location != chain.
<jrwren> so this twisted rooster is not a chain.
<wolfger> ok. What is the jrwren definition of chain?
<jrwren> oh sorry, 4 locations.
<jrwren> lmgtfy define:chain
<jrwren> meh, ok... its definitely a chain.
<jrwren> owned by Wendy's parent company
<wolfger> so it's a chain if it's owned by a corporation?
<wolfger> that's a sad definition
<wolfger> also wondering where you see there are 4 locations. I only derived 3 from the article.
<snap-l> Wait, someone doesn't know where Royal Oak is?
<snap-l> Man, talk about the AA buffer. :)
<jrwren> no.
<wolfger> snap-l: Lots of people don't know where Royal Oak is
<jrwren> any restaurant that isn't a corporation is just stupid.
<jrwren> you'd be hard pressed to find one.
<jrwren> wolfger: twisted-cork.com
<wolfger> Outside of Michigan, people often think of the entire state in terms of "Detroit" and "the upper peninsula"
<jrwren> or whatever it is.
<jrwren> twisted-rooster.com
<snap-l> I mean people in Michigan
<snap-l> and the UP doesn't count because that's like a different country. ;)
<wolfger> Yeah. It's like Canada.
<jrwren> AA people don't know royal oak because a lot of them aren't from MI. they are from outside MI and relocated to Umich.
<Milyardo> In my defense I've only lived here for about 3 years now -.-
<wolfger> Oh, wait, that's just a different state, not a different country
<Milyardo> ^ This
<wolfger> I like the Twisted Rooster motto, "Commit to the Mitt"
<jjesse> there is at least 1 twisted rooster here in grand rapids
<jjesse> reading scroll
<snap-l> Just had fun changing network cards.
<snap-l> Dropped a 3Com card from 1997 into this box
<snap-l> and it appears to kick the ever-loving crap out of the realtek card in here
<wolfger> changing network cards is "fun"?
<snap-l> not really
<snap-l> since network manager is a real PITA
<snap-l> I mean, it does what it thinks is the right thing
<snap-l> but it wasn't what I did
<snap-l> s/did/wanted/
<wolfger> so...
<wolfger> who's going to go see Thor this weekend and let me know if it sucks or not?
<binbrain> I haven't seen it, it probably sucks
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> insightful and informative
<wolfger> that's slashdot quality commentary there...
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> Kenneth Brannagh at the helm gives me hope
<wolfger> but then again, he's done crap before, too
<snap-l> I heard it was good from Jacob (from the Ubuntu Ohio group)
<binbrain> has hollywood done any good action movies in the last I don't know how long?
<binbrain> I guess the batmans have been good
<wolfger> sure, for somebody's definition of "good"
<wolfger> I'm trying to think of the last good one I saw... drawing a blank
<wolfger> Suckerpunch was good... but it wasn't *really* and action flick
<wolfger> s/and/an/
<binbrain> I'm a bit jaded, I just watched 2012 recently
<binbrain> both of them
<binbrain> awful
<wolfger> Does Avatar count as an action flick? That was pretty awesome. But not for reasons of action.... :-p
<binbrain> sure, Avatar counts I guess
<binbrain> that was decent
<wolfger> it was awesome from the world-building standpoint, and 3D standpoint
<wolfger> it suffers some in 2D
<wolfger> but I love the details and the plants and animals created for that movie
<ColonelPanic001> Dnaces With Smurfs wasn't much other than action.
<binbrain> Titanic 2 is out on netflix "Irony looms for the passengers of a luxury cruise liner Titanic II"
<ColonelPanic001> I WONDER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE SHIP
<snap-l> They better have William Shatner in Titanic II
<snap-l> he was brilliant in Airplane 2
<ColonelPanic001> actually, it'd be awesome if the movie was just a couple enjoying the cruise, and nothing unusual happened
<snap-l> AKA another sequel that didn't need to be made
<Krondroid> Binbrain does inception count as action?
<binbrain> Krondroid: good one, that counts
<brousch> titanic 2 involves near-future submersible pleasure cruises to undersea tourist spots like the titanic. but what mutant beast lurks within its hull?
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<Blazeix> Megashark and giant octopus
<brousch> the titanic was intentionally sunk by the illuminati to reinforce the rotting door over cthulu's tomb
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch> admit it. you'd watch the movie
 * brousch adds this to his story ideas
<wolfger> Krondroid++
<brousch> oh my. let's get rick_h__ fired up today http://www.mutuallyhuman.com/blog/2011/05/06/vim-is-the-worst-text-editor-ever-sometimes
<brousch> "Forcing an editor on another person is just cruel, and it makes you look like a jerk. So don't do it."
<wolfger> Iron Man 2 was another good action flick
<wolfger> not sure how recent it was
<wolfger> my sense of time is shot all to hell
<brousch> ironman++
<wolfger> Iron Man 1 & 2 gives me hope that The Avengers won't suck
<rick_h__> brousch: meh, that's link bait is all that is
<wolfger> that and the fact Joss Whedon is helming it
<rick_h__> "Oh vim is greatest ever but don't make others use it"
<brousch> my wife loves smallville, which is full of angsty whiner heroes. ironman was an awesome change
<snap-l> Don't make anyone have to use an editor
<snap-l> Let them come to it naturally.
<rick_h__> I should write a counter argument
<rick_h__> "You know, if your pair partner is partially knowledgeable on vim basics
<rick_h__> an advanced user during pairing can help improve their skill and thus productivity beyond the pair programming session"
<brousch> rick_h__: the blog is from a ruby shop in GR, just to get you more fired up
<rick_h__> heh, well no wonder they use textmate
<brousch> great guys, nonetheless
<jrwren>  Kenneth Brannagh  is in Thor?
<Milyardo> rick_h__: You should ask if that blog post was written in vim
<snap-l> OK, I'll shut up about Eclipse pHase in a bit, but this is awesome: https://twitter.com/#!/EclipsePhase/statuses/66572549714214912
<snap-l> "Posted official torrent for the EP Core Rulebook 3rd printing. Help seed! http://mgnet.me/.eclipsephase"
<brousch> snap-l: weren't you just cursing eclipse earlier today?
<snap-l> Wrong Eclipse
<brousch> snap-l: so this Eclipse thing you love is the tweenybopper werewolf/leachman thing?
<jrwren> rofl.
<Milyardo> WHat's Eclipse Phase?
<snap-l> It's a pen and paper RPG that is Creative Commons licensed.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/rAW/
<brousch> ah, so an RPG based on the tweenybopper leachman series?
<brousch> poor greg-g
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-07
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> headin to your stompin ground today - tulip time festival
<snap-l> brousch: Oh boy oh boy!
<snap-l> I graduated the same time that Tulip Time was happening in May
<snap-l> Was pretty hellish
<brousch> i can see you wandering the streets sniffing all the flowers
<snap-l> That was the day before graduation. ;)
<snap-l> Now to clean the vacuum cleaner
<snap-l> I have a dust mask and verything
<_stink_> that is a horrible task.
<snap-l> definitely not my favorite
<TeamXlink> I have a bunch of generic case fans from stock computers, how do I decide which ones are best to use? They are all 12 volts, and all of my computer fans will/are be/ing wired to to moltex cables (yellow and balck lines),
<TeamXlink> They are all 12 volt and they all say there brushless.
<TeamXlink> One of them says 0.43 A, I believe that means amps. Should I just choose the ones with the best amps?
<Dekkard> N
<Dekkard> Virtual keyboards suck
<TeamXlink> Is it alright to not have an intake fan?
<snap-l> TeamXlink: As long as you have some exhaust, you'll get some intake
<snap-l> unless you're one of those rare people who can make an air-tight computer case
<snap-l> just make sure that all zones are pretty cool
<snap-l> that includes CPU, card cage, memory, and HDD
<snap-l> Do you get anything back if you type "sensors"?
<TeamXlink> Sweet, thanks!
<snap-l> I'd recommend if you can, have some air blowing over the hard drives
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-08
<TeamXlink> I finished organizing my pc case and cables.
<TeamXlink> http://teamxlink.imgur.com/new_pc_cable_setup
<TeamXlink> Made great use of zip ties.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: What case is that?
<snap-l> Never seen one like that with a hinge
<TeamXlink> A Dell Optiplex GX 260.
<snap-l> (Save for an Apple G3
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Yeah, Dell has some interesting cases
<snap-l> too bad they generally only fit Dell components. ;)
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<TeamXlink> Do you think this is a good deal:
<TeamXlink> http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/sys/2325391881.html
<TeamXlink> Specifically the computer case with the psu?
<TeamXlink> http://images.craigslist.org/3kd3p53l65V55W45P3b4e1de938825f0b19e0.jpg
<TeamXlink> http://images.craigslist.org/3kc3m43lf5U35X45R4b4ebb521cf30fb41c39.jpg
<snap-l> One thing I'd caution is you're going to want to dust that case out pretty often
<TeamXlink> Why is that?
<snap-l> You're creating a lot of negative pressure
<TeamXlink> Oh, in my setup?
<snap-l> and that air comes from outside
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<snap-l> Yeah, but you'll get that no matter what
<snap-l> So if you have it on the floor, you'll get dust
<snap-l> I get that even with a cheap filter on my computer
<TeamXlink> Alright.
<TeamXlink> If I got this new case, my graphics card would finally have the recommended 300 wat power, and I wouldn't have to take up all of my drive bays with my second power supply.
<snap-l> Make sure you check what the PSU model is
<snap-l> and manufacturer
<snap-l> Not all are ccreated equal
<TeamXlink> Alright.
<snap-l> Also, make sure it's not in a smoker home
<TeamXlink> Why not?
<snap-l> 1) You'll never get that smell out
<snap-l> 2) Cigarettes leave a film on everything
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<snap-l> That smoke is impossible to get off of components
<snap-l> I have an Atari 1050 drive that was owned by a smoker. It still smells like smoke.
<TeamXlink> If it is from a smokers home, I shouldn't buy it then?
<snap-l> And that was bought when I was in college.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Just know what you're getting into
<TeamXlink> I'll take your advice and not purchase it if its from a smokers home.
<snap-l> If it's important to not have your house reak, then you'll not want it
<snap-l> Also, that looks like a dell / compaq case
<TeamXlink> The one from craigslist?
<snap-l> Yeah
<TeamXlink> Its probably properitary, then right?
<snap-l> Though there's some strange badge on the right that I don't recognize.
<snap-l> Doesn't look like it from the pictures, but you'll want to be certain of what you're getting into
<snap-l> Also, you're in Lansing, right?
<TeamXlink> Kentwood, actually.
<snap-l> How far from GR is that?
 * snap-l is only minorly familiar with west michigan
<TeamXlink> Were a sub-city of GrandRapids, I'll find out how far on google maps real quick.
<TeamXlink> I'm about 11 miles from Van Andel Arena.
<snap-l> OK. Just make sure to meet somewhere neutral
<snap-l> McDonalds, etc.
<snap-l> Don't give them directions to your house, or go to this persons house.
<TeamXlink> For saftey?
<snap-l> Yes
 * snap-l doesn't trust Craig's List. ;)
<TeamXlink> lol
<snap-l> I like the safety of shipping stuff via the post office
<snap-l> but I understand your situation.
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<TeamXlink> Are there agp to pcie converters?
<snap-l> TeamXlink: I don't thin there are, nor would you want one
<snap-l> it'd likely be more than the card is worth
<TeamXlink> Well, about 3 weeks or so ago, my friend bought me a graphics card for free, http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-HD3650-Video-100258L/dp/B001L62INY Although I wish it wasn't an ATI card, I didn't know of the problems ATI has with OpenGL's vram.
<TeamXlink> Since then I figured now that one of the most expensive parts was bought, I should start upgradeing my computer.
<TeamXlink> Eventually I want to have a modern-ish setup.
<TeamXlink> I've learned a lot which I'm glad about.
<TeamXlink> For some reason my graphics card is underclocked, a lot.
<TeamXlink> To get it to the normal clock speed, i have to use an overclockign utitilty.
<TeamXlink> The standard clocks are:
<TeamXlink> GPU: 725
<TeamXlink> MEM: 325
<TeamXlink> The Graphics card always underclocks too:
<TeamXlink> GPU: 300
<TeamXlink> MEM: 323
<TeamXlink> Is there anyway to fix this?
<snap-l> G'morning
<snap-l> Happy Mothers day, in case there are any mothers on the channel
<snap-l> Now to do some more dishes
<snap-l> When will they ever end!
<rick_h__> heh, stop cooking
<_stink_> or use paper
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-30
<rick_h_> snap-l: congrats
<snap-l> And my second wind just went teletubbie bye bye
<rick_h_> morning
<smoser> rick_h_, i show up in the west wednesday evening
<rick_h_> smoser: yea sorry, should have asked the more direct question of if you were around for Penguicon
<rick_h_> I thought you might be out west already
<smoser> no. i cant be at penguicon.
<rick_h_> heh, too scary?
<brousch> rick_h_: did you survive without getting groped?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, survived. I did a hit/run approach. Stuck to tech events
<shakes808> rick_h_: How did your presentation go? How was PC?
<rick_h_> it went ok, I don't think too many people are going to go home and code YUI, but a few people seemed to find it informmative
<rick_h_> PC was cool, hun out with some friends, good dinner friday night
<shakes808> yui? is there anything that you don't know?
<shakes808> That is good. I wish I could have made it out. Next year I will try to :D
<rick_h_> yea, I don't know a ton, but I try to know about most things in web-dev. I'm a big YUI fan, we use it for launchpad and it's now powering bookie
<rick_h_> yea, hopefully we'll get the tech content moving upwards
<shakes808> why do you like YUI over JQuery?
<rick_h_> heh, it's a more comlete JS solution for apps while jquery is one small part of a suite of tools you need
<brousch> rick_h_: does penguicon record the presentations?
<rick_h_> no, unfortunately not
<rick_h_> and I brought my handy h1 to at least do audio, but forgot to start it in the rush to get setup ;?
<rick_h_> :/
<rick_h_> bah, monday can't type day
<brousch> that's ok. my brain is full of snot from some illness today. i already stole my wife's keys and had to drive back home so she could go to work
<rick_h_> hah, ouch
<brousch> and i have to give a presentation and sit on a panel in front of 90 people
<brousch> i will take a sudafed, but it might make my heart explode
<shakes808> brousch: for what?
<brousch> mobile michigan grand rapids
<shakes808> Oh, you were talking about that the other day, that they were making you do it or something like that.
<brousch> they asked. i accepted. then an hour later this cold thing started coming on
<snap-l> Good morning again. :)
<shakes808> good morning
<snap-l> PC was awesome.
<brousch> i looked at yui a few years ago and it seemed so incredibly huge compared to other things like jquery
<brousch> like the zope of javascript
<rick_h_> think of it like the django of JS
<rick_h_> vs wsgi == jquery
<Milyardo> Zope? Huge? No way :)
<Milyardo> At least Zope isn't JBoss
<Milyardo> >.>
<brousch> i don't think anything is as big as jboss
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I know YUI seems 'big' when you get into it, but then again it's because it supplies the tools and practices you should be doing with any JS you use
<rick_h_> not to mention that YUI would be == jquery, underscore.js, history.js, backbone, qunit, requirejs, and more
<rick_h_> so if i gave you all those in one swoop you'd feel it was 'huge' as well
<brousch> i am bad. i treat javascript like i used to treat php. just copy/paste whatever works and patch it in
<rick_h_> right, so you're a bad JS developer, and that's what I tried to get across in my talk
<rick_h_> only two people in the room have tests of their JS which is just stupid
<rick_h_> so yea, if you're just scripting crap, jquery lets you do that easier than YUI, enjoy what you get out of it
<brousch> i wrote a little javascript. it drove me into a rage when it differed from python
<rick_h_> yea, you have to learn to appreciate JS
<rick_h_> a bit part of my talk was promoting event style programming, it's kind of hte 'aha!' moment for doing JS dev
<rick_h_> until you get there it seems more mess than useful I think
<brousch> it does so many different things and many people just slap it all in one file. your ajax handlers with your slideshow
<snap-l> Wonder if game development might get people more into the event-driven mindset.
<rick_h_> snap-l: definitely, or even old school VB dev where you have UI driven by events
<snap-l> since it's all about "this happened, do this"
<rick_h_> but that's the thing, most of JS is all about UI and people try to do it like a top to bottom script vs events/interactions
<snap-l> Yeah, you'll run into a world of pain that way.
<rick_h_> go ask John about that action planner tool, it's got one init method and everything else works via disconnected events which makes it very easy to test and to expand upon
<rick_h_> but yea, I understand the opinion of people on YUI, but the thing to notice is that they're rarely made by people that have actually used it for a decent project
<rick_h_> just as I don't see vim users that have gotten used to it hate on it so
<brousch> i'm not ignorant. i just don't know nothin!
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> you see the pyohio call for proposals?
<rick_h_> yea, I've got to figer out what to present :/
<brousch> snap-l needs to speak this year
<rick_h_> nothing at work really interesting
<rick_h_> debating on doing my Make talk
<rick_h_> or maybe go inspirational somehow
<brousch> nothing in launchpad is interesting?
<rick_h_> no...pretty much nothing :P
<brousch> testing would be good. destroy all doctests
<rick_h_> the dev practice might be
<brousch> i may go through my parts of a web framework thing and see if it can be a talk
<brousch> might be good for that beginner's track
<rick_h_> yea, I'll think of something. Maybe try to do two talks this year vs a tutorial
<brousch> the tutorial was good
<rick_h_> yea, but a lot of work and the temp fail was kind of a bummer
<rick_h_> I'm lazy :P
<brousch> more work than a talk?
<rick_h_> yea, definitely
<brousch> it was long
<rick_h_> long, but the homework bits, etc
<rick_h_> snap-l: we hit someone lol https://twitter.com/#!/passy/statuses/194702325976285185
<snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome. :)
<shakes808> rick_h_: The Wednesday CHC meetings, is there ever an itinerary? or just come and wing it?
<rick_h_> whatever you want to work on
<rick_h_> shakes808: sometimes we try to do something, we watching YUIConf videos one time
<rick_h_> but generally free for all, just dedicated time for your stuff
<shakes808> alright, that's cool. I am excited to come check it out and actually meet the famous rick_h_ :P
<rick_h_> ummmm...ok
<shakes808> sorry, I my sarcasim / facetiousness probably doesn't convey well throught text lol
<rick_h_> ok, snap-l will probbly know this...but who the @#$#@ is Ze Frank and why is everyone all giddy over his youtube stuff/on triagulation (which yea I should just listen to i guess)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ze Frank did a podcast called "Ze Show with Ze Frank", which was an episode a day
<snap-l> it started getting it's own memes and stuff
<snap-l> Sorry, it's The Show with Ze Frank
<rick_h_> so how did he get all into the tech people fawning over him? Did he actually do something famous or just crazy crap on the web?
<snap-l> http://www.zefrank.com/thewiki/Main_Page
<snap-l> He got a lot of people engaged into a community with interesting content
<snap-l> It was inspirational for a lot of folks to get off their own ass and start making awesome stuff
<snap-l> He's quite creative, which manifested itself in The Show
<snap-l> I know that's probably a very unsatisfying answer, but it's hard to summarize.
<rick_h_> yea, I gotcha.
<rick_h_> was hoping to short cut and get at the 'wtf is with this' but seeing an episode/two of his stuff didn't mke it clear
<rick_h_> and the stuff like that, long lists of what he did doesn't get at the heart of the attraction
<rick_h_> seems very 'had to be there' kind of thing I guess
<snap-l> http://www.zefrank.com/thewiki/the_show:_05-02-06
<snap-l> This is one of our favorite episodes.
<brousch> wow, Corey Doctrow is talking nice about ubuntu unity
<rick_h_> sweet, linky?
<brousch> https://twitter.com/#!/doctorow
<greg-g> huh, he's using Unity 2D not normal Unity?
<rick_h_> very cool, that's the impression I'm hearing from a lot of people. I'm hoping it's starting to have people give it a chance
<rick_h_> says the man who refuses to run unity in daily use lol
<greg-g> it should give PEOPLE a chance
 * greg-g sing "Give peace a chance"
<greg-g> sings*
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> greg-g: man, got proper bike shirt/shorts... <3
<greg-g> rick_h_: whoa! nice!
<greg-g> also, you went to the gym today?
<rick_h_> look like an idiot glow in the dark and all, but great riding
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I've been tring to bike more, gym is hard to do getting up 5:30am
<rick_h_> but trying to get back to it
<rick_h_> rainy today so no bike ride
<greg-g> yeah, when Carrie and I did our bike tour 2 summers ago, we wore uber bike geek clothing. Out in the middle of michigan on country roads and you need it :)
 * rick_h_ has grown back some of my previous losses, like the stock market
<rick_h_> yea, the long back on the shirt, tight wrists, pockets, etc. very nice
<greg-g> I can't parse that last one
<greg-g> re stock market
<rick_h_> just that I've gained lbs from being bad
<greg-g> ahh, I see
<greg-g> diet debt, or something ;)
<rick_h_> so back to trying to do more than bike a few times a week
<rick_h_> get up early, gym + bike, etc
<rick_h_> but yea, the bike shorts were really comfy, suprisingly not too hot/too cool in my two rides so far
<snap-l> God, Oracle needs to find a clue
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I agreed to their stupid license terms for the extension pack already
<snap-l> why do I need to agree again?
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I like 'em. Can't get myself to wear them on the commute, but otherwise they're the best
<greg-g> snap-l: so they can sue you later
<snap-l> Oh, wait, it's because Oracle might change them later.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I think there's a 8-10mi min distance requirement for looking that stupid to me
<snap-l> Haven't we already determined that click-through licenses are unenforcable?
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) yeah, and the 3/40mile bike/train split doesn't cut it
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, yea. Sitting a train like that with the glow inthe dark "look at me" yellow colors might be a bit uncomfy to sit throgh
<snap-l> greg-g is a natural exhibitionist. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: no comment
<rick_h_> hey, I do think I get noticed more which is good for safety for sure
<greg-g> word
<snap-l> If it's between me looking like an idiot, or getting a door prize, I'll take idiot.
<snap-l> WHich is why I have streamers on my bike
<snap-l> because I am a pretty princess.
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> take the flag from the boy's trailer and strap it to my back
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA18oKFDW5c <- Blare this
<greg-g> snap-l is a pretty princess
<rick_h_> jodee likes to have her princess happy :P
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> I don't understand how a publisher can declare they're going DRM free, yet have no direct way to purchase ebooks without a reseller that by default uses DRM.
<snap-l> That's pathetic.
<rick_h_> that's a tough one
<rick_h_> I mean, it's one less stopping block and good for them, but yea...real effect == nill
<snap-l> It shows just how screwed the publishers really are
<snap-l> unless they create their own stores, they're powerless against Amazon, Apple et. al.
<rick_h_> the thing is that it's never been easier to setup stores/etc and get to your consumers
<snap-l> ding ding ding
<rick_h_> look at pragmatic press
<snap-l> When Tor had their free PDFs, I was eagerly waiting for them to open their store
<snap-l> then they just opened up a "Brand new website" with forums and other nonsense, and no books.
<snap-l> It's like giving out free samples of ice cream, and then opening up a photo gallery of ice cream
<rick_h_> tough though because really distributers are their 'customers' and they'd be going into competition with themselves in a way
<snap-l> It takes some doing, but I've seen game publishers strike a pretty good balance
<snap-l> They treat the game stores as partners, not as adversaries.
<snap-l> Steve Jackson distributes the core Munchkin sets to B&N, Target and others
<snap-l> but the expansion packs are in the local game stores.
<snap-l> and game stores will also get promo items
<snap-l> They could put in codes for free ebooks when you buy hardcopy
<snap-l> or do what apress does and have the purchaser take a quick test to see if they have a copy on-hand
<snap-l> and upgrade for $10
<snap-l> There's ways to make it so customers don't feel like suckers.
<brousch> momogr geekers just emailed me to tell me i have too many slides in my presentation
<brousch> i didn't send them my notes, so they are just judging by the number of slides
<brousch> wtf
<snap-l> brousch: How many slides do you have? They may be using the calculation 5 min * # of slides
<snap-l> but yeah, that's pretty silly.
<brousch> 30 sildes for 15 mins
<brousch> but 1/4 of them are just links for when they're posted with no real speaking content
<snap-l> They're not using an ignite-based style of presenting, are they?
<rick_h_> that is tough, 30s per slide is going to be a tight average
<brousch> only 1 lolcat!
<snap-l> Maybe they're hoping you'll drop the lolcat.
<brousch> heh
<brousch> possible
<snap-l> Leaves no time for q&a either
<brousch> no poop!
<brousch> there's a panel afterwards for q&a
<brousch> ah well, it's arranged such that i can drop off the last 1/3 if i have to
<brousch> starting at about the cat
<brousch> 5 min/ slide would suck
<brousch> but its wierd. i haven't had anyone tell me my talk was wrong before i gave it
<snap-l> Maybe they have the ability to see into the future, and take corrective measures.
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> Man, I love the last track in this latest episode of OMC
<snap-l> Just absolutely nuts on the drums
<brousch> sounds painful
<greg-g> hah, I do 60 in 15 minutes when I do "what is CC?" talks
<snap-l> greg-g: I think everyone in CC learns the lessig presentation method
<snap-l> It's almost like stop-motion
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> 27" 2560x1440 monitor showed up today
<brousch> big hog
<snap-l> brousch: WElcome to inadequate video card benchmarking. :)
<brousch> heh, not for me. for the 3d modeling guys
<brousch> i can't find anything in my office to run it at full res
<rick_h_> hah nice
<snap-l> xonotic might be able to run full res.
<snap-l> but the textures might not be up to it
<brousch> wow, this thing is almost exactly 3x my laptop's resolution
<snap-l> Hmm, pyweek is next week
<snap-l> it's nto the same week as Penguicon, for a change.
<rick_h_> pyweek? the game comp?
<snap-l> Yeah
<shakes808> Who is participating in PyWeek?
<snap-l> I might
<shakes808> have you previous?
<snap-l> Yeah, in 4, 5, and 6
<snap-l> Unfortunately, 6 kinda burned me out
<snap-l> and whenever I thought about it again, it was either during Penguicon, or something else came up
<shakes808> gotcha
<brousch> SSD came in. hopefully i can install it tonight after the meeting
<snap-l> Hm, maybe I should go that route for my 12.04 install
<snap-l> get a new HDD, and do some drive shuffling
<snap-l> I need a bigger drive anyway.
<shakes808> Have a good one all
<snap-l> laternes.s
<brousch> snap-l: ssd
<brousch> 12.04 is still snappy on this old dell
<brousch> manufactured in 2006
<snap-l> no chc for me kn wed
<snap-l> got a graduation.to go to
<snap-l> Sarah is graduating
<snap-l> which is awesome
<snap-l> also Swype is cool
<rick_h_> booooo but cooooool
<rick_h_> and yes, swype is cool, I still use slideit I think, can't recall the name I guess
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-01
<rick_h_> finally getting around to setting up the colorhug
<rick_h_> time to see if I can get this to work in awesome
<rick_h_> man, this looks goofy
<rick_h_> so red...but this is supposed to be all nice nad calibrated
<rick_h_> cool, but at least I can init the color profiles from my awesome autostart
<rick_h_> ok, this is cool NaCL stuff jrwren https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/pnhechapfaindjhompbnflcldabbghjo
<jrwren> did you see the nacl desktop stuff?
<jrwren> oh wow, that is cool
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> no key auth though, so I can't use it :[
<jrwren> i'm sure it will get better
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, didn't see anything nacl desktop stuff
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I used it for an internal machine I have login enabled and worked so cool
<rick_h_> hmm, jrwren solorized on a light background in vim is looking kind of nice post-calibration
<rick_h_> I might try this for the work day tomorrow
<brousch> muahaha
<brousch> i got one of the other panelists to "totally disagree" with me
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> my training is complete :P
<rick_h_> what did he disagree with?
<brousch> separate mobile site vs mobile optimized version of full site
<brousch> he wants separate sites, probably because  his company makes them
<rick_h_> ah well of course if his company makes them
<rick_h_> and it is true for the 'optimal experience' but just not in the budget for a lot of places
<brousch> unsustainable
<brousch> especially on android
<brousch> i say make your website functional at every screen size
<brousch> i don't give a crap about whether it looks native
<jjesse> a lot of places still don't have a mobile friendly website
<jjesse> and stupid rester aunts that make me download a pdf instead of showing me a menu
<rick_h_> it takes $$ and effort
<brousch> right, so a website that works with any mobile device is easier to do than trying to make an iphone version and an ipad version, and an android version that all look like native apps
<brousch> you're making 1 website instead of dozens
<brousch> jjesse: pdf menus suck
<jjesse> yeah the make me not want to go to that place
<brousch> i think mostly the issue was he was looking at it as a marketing guy with websites to sell and i was looking at it as a developer with 10,000 projects on my plate
<brousch> but it was fun
<rick_h_> very cool, congrats on doing that
<rick_h_> ls
<rick_h_> hmm, trying out different font combos wheeeeee
<brousch> combos come in font flavors now?
<snap-l> Yeah, there's Times Tamale, Arial Anchovies, and Georgia Garlic Toast.
<brousch> i could go for the tamales
<rick_h_> well, so far changed the color profile, the vim color scheme, gone light background with it, and now changing my monospace font for terminals/vim
<rick_h_> so going to be an interesting work day tomorrow
<Blazeix> uhoh. rick_h_ has gone off the deep end
<jrwren> brousch: he was wrong, you were right. very simple
<brousch> not yet, he's still using a fixed width font
<rick_h_> well it's kind of crazy how different the color calibration has left things
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> I'll bring the colorhub and livecd-usb to CHC this week and people can tinker with it
<rick_h_> updated firmware and all that jazz
<jrwren> brousch: a website shouldn't look native. it should look like a website, even on a mobile device.
<jrwren> it should be readable.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> today i begin my VB.NET adventure
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> good luck...and may it end in a hurry
<brousch> i hope so. i think vb.net will go quicker since i'm converting a VBA application
<brousch> bah, i can't do the migration. might as well use C#
<shakes808> VB isn't bad, either is C#. :D
<rick_h_> there you go, get shakes808 to do it for you. Trade him in python lessions :)
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> i still have a nagging itch to do this is ironpython
<shakes808> What do you have to do again?
<brousch> convert an autocad VBA application to dotnet
<shakes808> Sounds like fun
<shakes808> I remember now :D
<brousch> this is the autocad dotnet api http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=773204&siteID=123112
<shakes808> Not sure if you seen this but maybe this can help :D
<shakes808> http://exchange.autodesk.com/autocad/enu/online-help/browse#WS73099cc142f48755-5c83e7b1120018de8c0-3c0.htm
<brousch> yeah, i'm reading through that crap now
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> at least i get paid to read through it
<snap-l> heh
<shakes808> But you aren't absorbing it to remember it to work on it for future use. You should drag this project out for a month :) ;)
<brousch> hoping it can be a set and forget it like the VBA app was. it basically just worked from 2004 - today
<brousch> just a tiny tweak each year as autocad changed their api
<shakes808> That would be nice
<shakes808> What do you do that you use AutoCAD?
<brousch> we have 4 draftsmen
<brousch> the company i work for makes steel stairs and railings
<shakes808> That's cool
<shakes808> You are on the West Side of the state, correct?
<brousch> this vba application talks to our inventory and unit price system so the part descriptions on drawings match what's in the unit price file
<brousch> yes
<shakes808> Do you do residential?
<brousch> rarely. we're commercial/industrial
<shakes808> gotchya
<brousch> detroit jobs: blue cross/blue shield + parking ramp, Great Lakes Crossing Mall, Providence Medical Center, Cranbrook Art Academy, Canton Performing Arts Center, MGM Grand Hotel and Casino, Greektown Casino, WSU Medical Education Commons, Detroit Metro Airport, The Argonaut Building, Martin Luther King Sr/Jr high School, Mackenzie K-8 School, many more
<brousch> so pretty much any steel stairs, steel or aluminum railings in those buildings were built by us
<snap-l> brousch: Thinking of moving? :)
<brousch> no thanks
<snap-l> Oh c'mon, you'd love it here. :)
<brousch> i just find it fun to look around and see the things we've made
<snap-l> Yeah
<brousch> i could live in ann arbor
<rick_h_> hey, haven't you heard, quicken is hiring 1000 people. Come live in detroit
<brousch> i don't think i could live east of it
<brousch> i'm sure quicken loans would make me write C# all the time
<snap-l> brousch: Check the map. East of Ann Arbor is not "Amalgamated suburbs of shithole"
<brousch> it is in my mind
<rick_h_> I'm with brousch, I'd like to be able to move out at AA :)
<brousch> there is the shithole surrounded by klingons
<shakes808> rick_h_: did you complete your 12 steps? ;)
<rick_h_> shakes808: step 12...move to AA, nope... :(
<brousch> one of my future projects is a google map showing all of our projects for the last 15 years. that will be fun
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> cd
<snap-l> bah
<brousch> rm -rf /
<brousch> bah
<brousch> so a wierd thing with newegg. i ordered that SSD for home and then i ordered another one along with a bunch of other stuff for work later in the day. the work one arrived yesterday via UPS. the home one has been sent from ups to the post office for delivery and hasn't arrived yet
<snap-l> newegg is a little wonky on shipping
<snap-l> I wonder if it's certain warehouses have different arrangements.
<brousch> work and home are in the same city, 4 miles apart
<brousch> http://www.newegg.com/Info/TrackOrder.aspx?TrackingNumber=9102900006022107572409
<brousch> "Transferred to UPS Mail Innovations Destination RPF"
<brousch> i think the UPS mail innovation center is the USPS
<brousch> and consider this: the one that arrived yesterday originated in CA. the one not yet here came from NJ
<brousch> wtf
<rick_h_> prime ftw! snap-l I join the squeezebox club today
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome!
<rick_h_> So now I know why you're missing CHC, to avoid my raving question list tomorrow :P
<snap-l> Hah, no, that's not it
<snap-l> figured I'd get it tonight anyway. :)
<brousch> oh yeah, good segment on the squeezebox on lococast
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome.
<snap-l> brousch: Thinking of getting one?
<brousch> not really
<rick_h_> join the cult brousch !
<snap-l> brousch: All are welcome. :)
<brousch> at home we all like different music
<brousch> the few songs we all like are reserved for road trips so we don't wear them out
<snap-l> brousch: That's fine. One for each room
<snap-l> then have a centralized server
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> It'll handle it
<snap-l> Ugh, I hate it when WRCJ plays more contemporary classical aka showtunes
<brousch> my son threw a fit this morning because i listened to neil degrass tyson on the radio instead of the crazy frog CD. i'm going to disown him
<snap-l> I don't want to send in the slowns
<snap-l> clowns, either.
<rick_h_> heh, we've not done much with his own cds yet. So far I've gotten only requests for "BB King"
<snap-l> Starting him off right, I see
<snap-l> "dada floyd. FLOOOOYD
<rick_h_> heck yea
<shakes808> WRCJ is only good at night :D
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> shy on you caysy di mun
<snap-l> shakes808: I like it both
<devinheitmueller> Neil Degrass Tyson for president!
<snap-l> save for showtunes
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> more of a classical classical fan
<brousch> devinheitmueller++
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Amen
<shakes808> If I am going to listen to classical or classical-esck, 2 cellos or Trikofski
<shakes808> and the cliche Ludy or Bach
<snap-l> Tchaikovsky?
<shakes808> Thats it
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> Yeah, though I've been going on a major Rachmaninov kick lately
<snap-l> As well as Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Mussorgsky
<snap-l> (sp)
<shakes808> More contemp and energetic, Barrage
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Violins
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> I blame russian folk metal
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> folk metal?
 * rick_h_ runs and hides from the idea
<shakes808> Folk, need some Bella Fleck or Johnny Pecon
<shakes808> ... I guess Johnny is polka
<shakes808> I consider that Folk at times lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a94940/kukushkiny-djeti or http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a94955/vjedma
<snap-l> Probably more the second link
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> nice
<snap-l> See also: Finntroll
<snap-l> Eluveitie
<snap-l> end Ensiferum
<shakes808> snap-l or rick_h_: did you ever take a look at the pygame I made?
<snap-l> shakes808: I did. There were no enemies to shoot at. :)
<shakes808> ?
<shakes808> there should have been
<snap-l> They never showed up
<shakes808> huh
<shakes808> Was there the main sprite?
<snap-l> Yeah, I could shoot and everything
<snap-l> just no enemies
<shakes808> I will have to check it out. I will have it tomorrow for the CHC
<snap-l> shakes808: I won't be there, unfortunatly
<snap-l> have a graduation to attend
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> ok
<shakes808> Looks like I will be bothering rick_h_ for the most part lol
<shakes808> I might have a buddy come with me to check it out.
<shakes808> he was going to be a programmer and now he is kind of out of it and running cable for a company for the past few years
<shakes808> Sorry rick_h_
<rick_h_> shakes808: no, don't know much pygame stuff so didn't peek at it
<rick_h_> feel free to bring it along to CHC
<shakes808> I would like to find that mem leak, if that is what is causing the horrendous lg
<shakes808> lag
<shakes808> I would play the crap out of that game :D
<shakes808> and I would like to improve it
<snap-l> shakes808: Yeah, I wasn't able to reproduce, and didn't take a closer look at it
<shakes808> With Python on the web, could I have that game up on a .com?
<snap-l> eh?
<shakes808> I will try to figure out where the enemy sprites are
<shakes808> snap-l: what would I use to get that on the web? NOT FLASH. There is a game www.realmofthemadgod.com
<rick_h_> mmmm, faster ubuntu installs http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/01/verbatim-outs-a-new-line-of-colorful-speedy-and-affordable-usb-3-0-flash-drives/
<shakes808> I think it is flash based, haven't right clicked on it lol
<rick_h_> shakes808: no, it needs to get to a browser and a browser just knows how to do JS, canvas, or whatever plugins are installed (flash, etc)
<shakes808> there isn't a plugin for Py yet?
<shakes808> How hard is it to make a plugin?
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> nothing I'd consider stable/useful that I know of
<brousch> ironpython via silverlight
<brousch> good luck with that
<shakes808> lol I didn't say I was going to do it :D I don't know enough of that atm. But it could be something to look in to :D
<brousch> hm, i think i could also write this application in AutoLISP
<snap-l> brousch: If pressed for learning a language from scratch, I'd probably choose lisp over vb.net
<snap-l> but lisp is not a RAD language. ;)
<snap-l> (yeah, I went there)
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> it looks like it has very limited or no windows forms capabilities, so autolisp is out
<brousch> i can't do the conversion, so VB.NET has no advantage for me over C#
<brousch> so back to C# i go
<brousch> i wrote a tiny C#/Gtk# app many years ago
<devinheitmueller> wow, several hundred protesters in front of my building, and dozens of cops....
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: told you they'd come for you eventually
<devinheitmueller> heh.
<devinheitmueller> The cost of working for an evil corporation, I guess.
<devinheitmueller> ... or perhaps it's because I work a block from Fox news.  Not sure.  :-/
<brousch> devinheitmueller: which evil corp are you a slave to?
<devinheitmueller> One of those software companies that sells enterprise software to banks, oil companies, and other large corporations.
<devinheitmueller> I'm kidding of course - they aren't here for my company - they were just walking by (presumably on their way to Fox)
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I'm sure it's for Fox
<snap-l> http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/
<snap-l> shared without comment
<snap-l> however, I just removed slashdot from my feeds.
<rick_h_> whoa, gone all new delicious there
<snap-l> Yeah, I wretched.
<brousch> hurts my mind
<brousch> at least i'm not the only one who hates these graphics-filled panel things
<brousch> looks like windows phone 8
<rick_h_> https://github.com/blog/1114-github-drinkup-in-ann-arbor-mi
<rick_h_> hmmmm....
<snap-l> That's during Michipug. :)
<rick_h_> yea, and still a school night and all that
<rick_h_> but always wanted to check out a github meetup
<snap-l> Yeah, no doubt.
<brousch> ours was a just standing around talking with geeks drinking beer
<brousch> drop in when you want, leave when you want
<brousch> so i suggest you go to michipug then hit the drinkup afterwards ;)
<brousch> hey, brandon keepers is our github guy. give him back!
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> time for my annual physical where the doctor will tell me to eat less and exercise more
<snap-l> Maybe it'll be reversed?
<shakes808> mmm beer
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Dragon Mead is where it is at :D
<greg-g> bad idea to do precise upgrade first thing when getting to the office, or best idea?
<rick_h_> best idea evar!
<rick_h_> you get the rest of the day to enjoy it
<greg-g> that's what I thought, the added bandwidth benefit is great, too
<rick_h_> definitely
<greg-g> configuring libc-bin............ and thus it begins.
<greg-g> no turning back now
<greg-g> ugh, it was stuck waiting for me to respond to a question, didn't see it in the GUI updater
<greg-g> had to expand the terminal tab
<snap-l> I hate that
<rick_h_> hmm, wonder how this will effect skype going forward: http://goo.gl/qIU0G
<_stink_> finger memory is a bastard
<_stink_> i'm trying to get back to hjkl for cursor movement in vim
<_stink_> and i keep reaching for the arrow keys
<_stink_> arg
<rick_h_> doh, turn them off
<_stink_> good idea.
<rick_h_> it's how I got off ctrl-c
<rick_h_> made it a nop
<_stink_> well you wouldn't like to hear that i... just reach for esc.
<rick_h_> yea, that's too far for me, drives me nuts
<rick_h_> ctrl-c was easy, jj is better
<shakes808> rick_h_: you and your shortcut keys lol
<rick_h_> hey, every second used 100x a day for 250 days a year...means a lot more work and less wear/tear on my hands/wrists
<rick_h_> I'm in this business for the long haul
<rick_h_> and shakes808 you've not seen anything yet: https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc
<rick_h_> and adding: alias color_dock="/usr/bin/dispwin -d 1 /home/rharding/.icc/DellU2212HM.icc && /usr/bin/dispwin -d 2 /home/rhardin    g/.icc/DellP2211H.icc"
<rick_h_> wheee
<shakes808> HA HA those are all your shortcut keys lol
<rick_h_> shakes808: the vimrc? they're a start of the custom ones
<rick_h_> it's a bit out of date
<rick_h_> and that's jut vim
<rick_h_> just that is
<shakes808> and you remember all of them?
<rick_h_> usually :)
<shakes808> That is nuts
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> sometimes if I don't use things I've got to look them up, but I have shortcut for my vimrc ,V so I can see the doc really fast
<snap-l> rick_h_: Hm, so Skype just became a telco
<shakes808> rick_h_: Obi Wan Ricknobi teach me your ways lol
<snap-l> centralized servers == better tapping capabilities.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, their big selling point kind of interesting
<brousch> shakes808: your first python lesson is to stand behind rick_h_ for an hour as he codes
<greg-g> man, this upgrade is total fail
<greg-g> oneiric -> precise, X died mid-way through installation
<rick_h_> greg-g: really?
<greg-g> rebooted, couldn't login to gnome, had to aptitude dist-upgrade a few times (with restarts inbetween)
<greg-g> I'm mosh'ing via tty2 (tty1 is dist-upgrading right now)
<rick_h_> greg-g: :/
<greg-g> also, I had to kill the apt-package-download process to get past a not-finishing download of flash via canonical's servers
<greg-g> hopefully there are some useful logs at the end of this for a bug report
<greg-g> Current status: 0 updates [-566]
<greg-g> hopefully that is a good sign
<greg-g> brb, wish me luck
<shakes808> brousch: sounds good ... but I believe he sees the lady in the red dress. I am not that 733t yet
<brousch> no, he creates the lady in the red dress
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://developers.google.com/speed/articles/spdy-for-mobile
<greg-g> well, I have a functioning desktop, but shortcut keys, even though they are set in the gnome-settings thingy, aren't working :/
<rick_h_> well, better than it could be I suppose
<greg-g> yeah, I might be able to get through the rest of the day, but damnit, I have no time at night to fuck with this
<greg-g> I get home, I eat dinner, then take care of rowan and go to bed
<greg-g> fucking 2 hours of commuting every day
 * greg-g is a little peeved, sorry
<rick_h_> greg-g: understand man, 2hr commute is killer
<brousch> ouch
<brousch> driving commute?
<brousch> i actually wouldn't mind 2 hours by train with internet
<greg-g> oh that's fucking great, Canonical/Unity dicks. My short cut keys work in Unity (non-standard, I set them) but not in gnome-shell. Why the fuck?
<brousch> probably more about lack of testing and support than dicks ;)
<greg-g> remember all those kind of not nice things I said about Ubuntu's handling of gnome-shell? Well, I'm going to make them even more not nice now.
<brousch> actually i have no recollection of those things
<greg-g> a blog post where I "debated" with jono re gnome-shell dicking (not just lack of support, but outright disabling/adding bugs)
<greg-g> it was my UbuntuOne on Debian post
<greg-g> I'm about ready to jump ship completely
 * brousch breaks out the blue hair dye
 * brousch and the blue beard dye
<greg-g> brousch: I don't have time to fiddle with all those KDE buttons ;)
<greg-g> #notatroll
<brousch> bah, takes me like 5 minutes to fix some colors and buttons
 * rick_h_ talks greg-g down off the ledge
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) I need it, man. in 11.10 it was just one niggle, mostly. Now it is my ability to use shortcut key combos. It has basically made gnome-shell anemic.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, sorry. I don't know how shortcut keys are handled between things
<greg-g> unless, of course, something got ef'd up with my crazy upgrade process with the X crash :)
<greg-g> I'll hope for that for now :)
<rick_h_> I can't imagine, I guess clear the .gnome dir and try again?
<rick_h_> whatever the reset command is these days, I think there's a unit reset
<rick_h_> is there such a thing for gnome3?
<rick_h_> greg-g: hit up askubuntu
<rick_h_> I'm trying to think, I know I saw some people blog posting running gnome3 on ubuntu with precise but coming up blank
<rick_h_> and obviously didn't mention shortcut keys
<snap-l> greg-g: You could also create a new user and see if it clears up
<greg-g> yeah, I'll mess with it later, I have a webinar to attend right now ;) (oh the joy)
<greg-g> snap-l: good test, will do.
<snap-l> and then move things about if it clears up
<rick_h_> yea, good point snap-l, night lightweight way to see
<snap-l> at the very least it'll put blame in the right box. :)
<greg-g> right right
 * greg-g calms down
<rick_h_> greg-g: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/965921
<greg-g> oh fuck me
<rick_h_> greg-g: so sounds like system install is ok, but that there's a known issue with this due to the changes in gnome3/unity around those shortcuts
<snap-l> I'd still try the new user approach
<snap-l> are you running Unity 2D?
<rick_h_> he's running gnome3 that's the issue if I understand correctly
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> right now I'm in Unity 3D because I was paralyzed without my shortcuts in gnome-shell
<snap-l> Ah, first read lead me to believe it was Unity 2D that was causing the problem.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, sounds like know issue you can follow with some pita suggested work arounds for now :(
<rick_h_> known that is
<greg-g> yeah, weee
<rick_h_> :/
<greg-g> "importance: low" yep, screw you gnome-shell users
<greg-g> ok, I'll stop and calm down
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, sucks. In defense of the guys it's driven by a change in gnome shell partly
<rick_h_> will be fixed in 12.10 :) incentive to beta it up hehe
<greg-g> except they saw it coming, since they had to patch the old system to work with Unity going forward since the functionality went away
<rick_h_> greg-g: well april 17th is mentioned, not sure what the official timeline is
<rick_h_> that is kind of late for changes/getting things in
<greg-g> reported march 26th
<rick_h_> again, obviously a biased canonical employee not using either so don't listen to me
<greg-g> and an earlier one on 3/23
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah, missed that. Just going off the stuff in the ticket my bad
<greg-g> :) no worries
<krondor> so (what was|was there) concensus?  rbenv or rvm for ruby environments?
<krondor> google has me thinking rbenv
<rick_h_> krondor: I think so as well but checking out on twitter for you
<rick_h_> hmmm, hourly says it's supposed to be 60, current weather says it's 53
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, so that verifies what I thought, rbenv ftw
<brousch> wrong. nothing ruby can be ftw
<brousch> it may only be ftnl
<rick_h_> hah
<krondor> nice, thanks for checking.  I'll settle with ftnl
<rick_h_> yea, for some reason I follow a big chunk of the ruby OH community
<rick_h_> so get to watch their convos on twitter all the time
<brousch> OH?
<Blazeix> observation helicopter.
<rick_h_> brousch: ohio, lots of ruby folks been to things like codemash/pyohio
<rick_h_> ok, time for a bike ride, hoped it would warm up but oh well
<brousch> it's plenty warm
<brousch> ug, an old dreamhost account got infected by some php crapware
<snap-l> Lovely
<snap-l> Shared hosting?
<brousch> of course
<brousch> and it was crap that was supposedly deleted long ago through the dreamhost control panel
<shakes808> rick_h_: for CHC tomorrow, is the parking free or are the meters going to be operational? Or do you know where free parking is?
<rick_h_> there's free parking in front and behind the caribou
<shakes808> sweet
<shakes808> rick_h_: when is the MUG group get together
<shakes808> ?
<Blazeix> second tuesday of every month
<rick_h_> shakes808: second tues of the month, 6:30pm
<shakes808> alrght
<rick_h_> snap-l: so next tues
<shakes808> I can't find the website :(
<Blazeix> shakes808: http://www.mug.org/
<shakes808> thank you
<rick_h_> what he said
<shakes808> That's what I put in and said domain didn't exist
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> ....
<shakes808> .com
<shakes808> :*(
<shakes808> Who is a moron?
<shakes808> <- this guy
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> <- this moron is going home. You all have a good night :D
<greg-g> also, what the hell is this, why is my mouse so sticky when going from one monitor to the other (when going over the Unity bar/thingy)
<jrwren> greg-g: jcastro linked to a fix for that a few days ago.
<jrwren> its an ON/OFF button in display settings
<greg-g> jrwren: it is still way to sticky (thanks, found that setting)
<greg-g> my mouse is paused there at the border for about half a second
<greg-g> rick_h_: did you have to change anything to use notmuch+mutt? I'm getting a PERL compilation warning/failure when trying to invoke search
<rick_h_> greg-g: I had to install the perl bits again and some cpan stuff I think
<rick_h_> making dinner right now, but can check/get some notes later tonight
<greg-g> rick_h_: hmmm, weird.. it seems to want a perl maildir package, I thought it was in the repos before, can't find it. /me goes to cpan, maybe
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-02
<brousch> ssd is fast
<brousch> < 10 second cold boot
<brousch> on this ancient dell
<snap-l> w00t
<brousch> it's amazong how fast kubuntu installs from usb
<rick_h_> ssd ftw, only way to live any more
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nq5kFw1g-5I#!
<brousch> now to move all my music, videos, and photos to the home server
<rick_h_> wheeee
<greg_g> ahhh, back on a pristine gnome-shell
<rick_h_> greg_g: you find something to work?
<rick_h_> man, we need to jump back on the podcast so I can scream about you get what you expect from apple land: https://twitter.com/#!/ginatrapani/status/197508470797369345
<greg_g> rick_h_: on mt home non-work laptop which is debian :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that whole in-app purchase embargo from Apple is pretty silly.
<snap-l> Made using the Nook and Kobo app on the iPhone pretty sterile
<snap-l> But, its Apple's sandbox. We just play in it.
<snap-l> And because Dropbox is competing with iCloud, expect it to get much worse.
<snap-l> Oh bloody hell
<snap-l> What's worse is Dropbox doesn't even have in-app purchase, just a link to Safari to do authorization
<snap-l> where one could make an in-app purchase
<snap-l> If they make that illegal, expect a good portion of apps to suddenly disappear
<snap-l> http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=59350&replies=15 <- Pretty stupid on Apple's part
<greg_g> I think I want one of these to act as a home NAS: http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
<greg_g> but, i can't believe it does much better at pushing data than rick_h_ 's new NAS, but, at 3watts...
<rick_h_> greg_g: right, but then you need to get the drives in there with raid and such
<rick_h_> morning by the way
<rick_h_> ...wow... http://i.imgur.com/rT1m0.png
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i guess i can see if all you've ever used was a GUI the command line must seem barbaric
<rick_h_> it's just sad, the deaf writing music? I'm not deaf...
<brousch> http://www.evelyn.co.uk/evelyn-glennie.html
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that's just sad that folks can't think of how to do graphics on a machine without a full stack in front of them
<rick_h_> snap-l: (sorry only mug'er online) is there any word of the next meeting stuff since it's < 1wk out?
<snap-l> Yeah, I need to get in touch with Shawn to get a blurb
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> oh and squeezebox ftw so far
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome!
<rick_h_> after I wired it to get a software update so I could get it on the network
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> but hey, new toy allowed a headache/two to start out
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a little finicky about updates
<snap-l> but you can override the updates if you're persistent
<rick_h_> well just that it saw my network, would let me enter the access code (which still sucks on that dial) but would fail without any hint as to why
<rick_h_> I had to plug it in ethernet, let it find an update, do the update, and then get back to the wireless and it connected ok
<snap-l> rick_h_: If you get the regular squeezebox remote, it's a LOT nicer for tapping out passwords
<rick_h_> the android remote is actually pretty ok, especially coming from just on the unit stuff
<snap-l> at least if they're alphanumeri
<snap-l> c
<rick_h_> oh, yea no remote here, just on unit
<rick_h_> and can't use the phone stuff until you get it on the network
<snap-l> The card remote they give you as part of the accesory pack isn't as good
<rick_h_> oh I just got the bare unit, no extras
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Internet-Remote-Controller/dp/B001413GT6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1335963281&sr=8-3
<rick_h_> $!!
<snap-l> Yeah, the acc. pack has the battery, remote
<snap-l> Yes, unfortunately
<snap-l> Get it direct from Logitech if it's more than $50
<snap-l> Amazon has a tendency on accessories to be... pricey.
<rick_h_> well there's http://www.amazon.com/Original-Remote-Logitech-Squeezebox-Internet/dp/B005TYUCG4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335963281&sr=8-2 which is more reasonable
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, no, that's not the remote I'm talking about
<snap-l> one sec.
<rick_h_> shoot, that remote costs more than the squeezebox, I'd just get a freaking harmony reomte and call it a day
<snap-l> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160744138615#ht_691wt_1088
<snap-l> This guy is upstanding.
<snap-l> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360453911348#ht_691wt_1088
<rick_h_> gotcha, well I'll try the phone for a bit and if it gets annoying pick up a remote
<rick_h_> thanks for the heads up on that
<snap-l> Yeah, quite honestly the only machine that really needs the remote is the classic
<snap-l> and once you have it set up, it's pretty much a "nice to have" with the radio
<snap-l> The Duet remote (that you posted) is essentially the radio without the speaker.
<snap-l> or the DAC
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> (though it has a headphone jack, if memory serves, so it has a DAC, just not one that's accessible)
<snap-l> It's also a problem child. FOlks had problems with the battery getting completely discharged
<snap-l> Does anyone have Ryan Kather's e-mail address handy?
<rick_h_> sec
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> pm, please
<shakes808> Good morning, sirs
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> on
<shakes808> garth
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_rss_2542131/?docId=1000798681
<snap-l> DX is on sale
<brousch> that means the DXX is coming soon
<shakes808> meh, Nook ;D
<snap-l> I like my nook, but having a full page screen like that would be nice
<snap-l> not $300 nice, mind you.
<snap-l> And the nook on it's side works adequately.
<rick_h_> that reminds me, anyone want to buy a kindle3?
<shakes808> for the same price you can get the nook tablet
<brousch> $5
<rick_h_> I never use the small one since the DX
<rick_h_> brousch: was thinking more like $45
<rick_h_> I miss the latest sofware on the 6", but DX size and pdf reading ftw
<snap-l> Reminds me, I haven't powered up the Kobo in weeks. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<shakes808> Kobo?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's Japanese for "Don't bother"
<rick_h_> hah
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> just another eReader, I presume?
<rick_h_> for 'open' hipies
<rick_h_> hippies
<shakes808> ha ha
<snap-l> Well, it's what borders sold as their "house-brand" eBook reader
<shakes808> lol and look at what happened to them .. lol
<snap-l> Unfortunately, the company has been through some rough patches, and has become terminally stupid in customer service.
<snap-l> shakes808: Now now.
<snap-l> I miss Borders.
<shakes808> What?
<shakes808> I like BN better
<shakes808> Their deals and discounts aren't limited
<shakes808> and they are friendlier there
<snap-l> Borders had better overall coupons for members. :)
<shakes808> meh
<shakes808> you only got them once a month whereas BN you get the deals EVERYDAY
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> too the coffee shop!!!!
<snap-l> shakes808: Apparently you weren't a power couponer like we were at Borders. :)
<shakes808> And with the nook, they had deals on that for Starbucks and the store
<snap-l> Every week it was at least 20% off
<snap-l> Regardless, that's where the Kobo came from
<shakes808> I would only get one sheet of coupons a month from them and if I tried to use another one from a friend, they wouldn't let me.
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> it was a decent little device, but they screwed it up with the latest firmware
<shakes808> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/container/stores.asp?PID=39742
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> www.borders.com/
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> BN = Google of book stores lol assimulation in progress ...  ...  ...  ... assimulation succeeded
<rick_h_> psh, Google makes money and is still alive I call invalid comparison
<snap-l> BN is in trouble as well
<rick_h_> book publishing is changing hardcode
<shakes808> Google buys out tech, uses it for a short while and then shuts it down lol. assimulation :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: we need to get our notes together for that chat, the self publishing, etc
<shakes808> How is BN in trouble?
<snap-l> shakes808: Not sure if you've notice, but traditional book sales are plummeting.
<shakes808> yes. because of torrenting
<snap-l> shakes808: No, because of stupid deals
<shakes808> and ebooks
<snap-l> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/understanding-amazons-strategy.html
<snap-l> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/04/more-on-drm-and-ebooks.html
<brousch> people torrent books
<brousch> ?
<snap-l> shakes808: ^ Enlightenment
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> where's out BB fanboi when I need to bug him? http://goo.gl/TslHr
<snap-l> brousch: You'd be surprised.
<snap-l> brousch: Especially textbooks
<brousch> rick_h_: http://www.meetup.com/MoMoGR/photos/7887422/#115500162
<rick_h_> brousch: hah! awesome
<brousch> somehow i got the BB board behind me
<snap-l> brousch: Closet fanboi
<rick_h_> yep, he's all holding back his excitement for this new BB OS
<brousch> the guy on the far right was from BB, drove from toronto
<brousch> he used a playbook the whole time
<shakes808> I will have to read them later on tonight.
<snap-l> holy shit
<snap-l> my mom just send me a mea culpa on a forward she sent.
<snap-l> SHE WENT TO SNOPES!
<snap-l> HAPPY DAY!
<rick_h_> lol, ruh roh, the end is nigh!
<greg_g> rick_h_: yeah, got an external 2 bay enclosure that does RAID, and is esata or usb, so I think that might be nice?
<rick_h_> greg_g: cool, yea
<rick_h_> little less plug/play, own os and that stuff, but cool low power
<greg_g> yeah, definitely a hacker toy less so than consumer
<greg_g> it's "unbrickable"
<rick_h_> nice
<greg_g> without JTAG, even :)
<_stink_> snap-l: wow, congrats!
<snap-l> _stink_: I KNOW, RIGHT?
<_stink_> you are the first, i think
<waldo323_> coming into the room as i did i thought maybe snap-l got a raise or solved a difficult comp sci problem....
<rick_h_> heh :)
<rick_h_> and instead he got his mother to hit up snopes.com
<waldo323_> irclogs.ubunutu.com proved me wrong
<rick_h_> a far greater victory
<waldo323_> yeah
<snap-l> Far more difficult victory
<rick_h_> worth a check out: http://color.smyck.org/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: do you know off the top of your head how to convert the colorschme for the terminal to urxvt .xdefaults bits?
<snap-l> First shaving, now color-yak shaving. ;)
<rick_h_> oh come on, I'm always up for trying out color schemes
<Blazeix> i don't know of an easy way, i usually just look up wtf colorX maps to
<Blazeix> rick_h_: ^
<Blazeix> i would take the rgb values on that html page and map them to the various URxvt*colorX keys
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ok cool, yea didn't look yet but was curious as I know you've tinkered more with that stuff than I have
 * rick_h_ is lazy :)
<shakes808> rick_h_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLexgOxsZu0
<brousch> http://bigbustycoons.com/Homepage.html
<snap-l> brousch: You must think I'm on crack to click on that link
<brousch> what? it's a bus advertisement site
<brousch> big bus tycoons. what's your problem?
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> domain name fail
<brousch> i think the furries at penguicon got into snap-l's head
<snap-l> I think it's a joke
<greg-g> hilarious
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> finally! http://goo.gl/y5dsN
<Blazeix> oh wow
<brousch> You had TNR, Arial, and Courier New. What more does a man need?
<rick_h_> Cabin!
<rick_h_> and Cabin Sketch :)
<rick_h_> but it just seemed stupid that they had some, but not all of the web fonts available
<brousch> fluffy fonts
<greg-g> I like how rick_h_ always links to his readable version now :)
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> hey, at least I've started to short link it :P
<rick_h_> but it's how I'm reading stuff and you guys get to be test subjects bwuhahaha
<rick_h_> greg-g: full linked url at the bottom now
<Blazeix> the templates are the killer thing, imo
<Blazeix> some of those resume templates are spiffy
<rick_h_> yea, definitely cool
<rick_h_> I might have to check out doing my next presentation on Gdocs again
<Blazeix> hm, the pager for the templates says "1-20 of thousands"
<Blazeix> there are actually about 70.
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe it's a gradual rollout thing?
<Blazeix> i think it's just google's search algorithm not knowing how many results there are
<Blazeix> since that's really expensive to calculate
<Blazeix> but you usually have a bunch of search results. it's more pronounced with < 100.
<rick_h_> 360393
<brousch> got it
<shakes808> Getting out of here.
<shakes808> have a good night
<shakes808> see you in a few hours rick_h_
<shakes808> Hello
<shakes808> How do I run the Python game in terminal?
<rick_h_> 504983
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h_> 057915
<greg-g> that's not helpful, rick_h_
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Is that some excel date thing?
<shakes808> lol
<greg-g> shakes808: its the output of one of those 2 factor login key fob things
<greg-g> you put in your username, password, and the number at that moment to log in.
<shakes808> ?? What are you crazies talking about?
<shakes808> python file_name.py
<shakes808> I see it
<shakes808> but it says it doesn't exist
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> WTF?
<snap-l> my sis in law just geasuated
<snap-l> graduated too
<shakes808> Congrats
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-03
<rick_h_> widox:  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pmjdebruijn/gcm-colorhug
<rick_h_> /usr/bin/dispwin -d 1 /home/rharding/.icc/DellP2211H.icc
<rick_h_> for instance
<wab> Hello!
<wab> Is anyone free to explain to me how packages work in Ubuntu? Specifically I'm wondering how I would be able to compile something from source but build it into a package with all the Ubuntu triggers (for menus, etc.). End game is to be able to modify something like gcalctool and have it re-integrate nicely.
<snap-l> HI wab
<wab> Hi there
<snap-l> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<snap-l> That should get you started on packaging for Ubuntu
<wab> awesome thanks
<wab> Sorry for the RTFM question
<snap-l> np, we're here to help. :)
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> shakes808: sorry about the lack of help at the end of the night there. Hope that didn't come across bad.
<rick_h_> just try to get out of there and keep on good terms with the staff/etc
<shakes808> rick_h_: LOL that is fine. I got side tracked on 1. how well my game ran and 2. trying to get it to run and show you the death blossom. That time went by real quick.
<rick_h_> yea, it definitely flies when you're having fun
<shakes808> Next week we can try to get some of my computer set up properly and get me on the right track ;)
<shakes808> Here you all go :D http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Death-Star-10188;jsessionid=d9wqUzpoqQzPpM4E7MyMMw**.lego-ps-2-2
<rick_h_> bah, I can't find Mike's photos of the death star assembly: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepirnat/sets/72157629129626695/
<brousch> $400
<brousch> crazy
<brousch> 2560x1440 on 27" is overwhelming
<rick_h_> hah, time to get a pair of those :P
<shakes808> lol that is awesome
<brousch> i have to turn my head to view the edge
<rick_h_> heh, glad I didn't get that code simplicity book now: http://goo.gl/SBkXQ
<ColonelPanic001> damn, I missed wab
<ColonelPanic001> pretty sure he's the guy from Sarnia I met at Pcon, in the "computer clubs" BOF
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that book looked a little wonky.
<brousch> why is it that every 4 months i have to go over the tax code with our accountants because they disbelieve what my program is telling them to pay?
<rick_h_> well are you an accountant?
<rick_h_> how can you know the program is still right?
<brousch> because the progam hasn't changed and the laws haven't changed
<brousch> use tax always trips them up
<brousch> we pay use tax based on material we've bought and put towards a job + some % of the labor we've done on the job
<rick_h_> I want to see the unit tests before I'll believe it
<rick_h_> "SHOW ME THE TESTS!"
<devinheitmueller> I trust the software more than the accountants.
<devinheitmueller> ;-)
<brousch> heh, this is literally the one thing i have here that has audit capability
<brousch> i have no tests on anything else
<rick_h_> hmmm, makers day http://goo.gl/MGQm8
<krondor> rick_h_++ forwarded to managers great idea, estimate of traction 1.0%
<krondor> I'd settle for just a no meeting day
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, it was the best thing of when I worked at Morpace. Whenever someone wanted to do meetings I'd be like "Well, I'm only in the office Tues/Thurs so pick one of those"
<rick_h_> and I knew I'd have nothing on MWF
<krondor> I should just start blocking out time on my calendar for work so the PMs see it as busy
<rick_h_> worth a good shot
<rick_h_> brousch: for your responsive design talk next time: http://www.welcomebrand.co.uk/thoughts/youre-not-at-the-cutting-edge-and-thats-fine/
<brousch> i was going to go with "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. FIX YOUR CRAP NOW"
<snap-l> I love that concept
<snap-l> I don't like the concept of no-email days, though
<snap-l> but I'm fully behind giving permission to not have to respond to e-mail
<snap-l> (ie: collect, process optional, review & do for that e-mail doesn't happen until tomorrow)
<snap-l> krondor: I used to do that at Ford / Chrysler for my weekly review
 * snap-l was in a town-hall meeting, so I'm a bit behind in scrollback. ;)
<rick_h_> heh, how's the town going? :)
<snap-l> Town is doing well, but vikings are still approaching
<shakes808> javascript question: Is there a way to make it default to landscape view when printing?
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7722453/print-to-hardcopy-using-javascript-landscape-mode
<rick_h_> generally nope
<shakes808> didn't think so. CSS won't work for me. Gotta go through the software
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> That is what I have been finding
<shakes808> Thank you
<shakes808> found some CSS and tried to implement it and it didn't work for another issue I was having
<brousch> i think printing is 9in the hands of the user
<brousch> which is where it should be
<brousch> i really don't want random website controlling my printing
 * greg-g agrees
<greg-g> my printer, my choice
<greg-g> I may have a dang good reason to do portrait
<brousch> best you could do is maybe generate landscape PDF
<rick_h_> yea, but you do get lazy users that go "hey, this page is wide, I keep forgetting to set it to landscape, why won't it just do it for me?"
 * rick_h_ has had to do a bunch of that crap
<snap-l> I'm just going to let this little fart off in church: The Android todotxt app is likely going to make me switch back to todotxt
<brousch> snap-l: did you ever blog about your adventures in todo apps?
<snap-l> Yeah, a long time ago
<Blazeix> good news, js mvc frameworks have todo list apps down pat
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/index.php?s=todo&x=0&y=0
<snap-l> Blazeix: har har
<snap-l> Blazeix: And they all suck
<Blazeix> http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/ :)
<brousch> snap-l: there is no year on your blog post dates. kindly diaf
<Blazeix> the url has it
<snap-l> brousch: There is, just not on the side
<brousch> FAIL
<snap-l> brousch: I'll gladly give you a refund
<brousch> it is a pet peeve. i will require $1M compensation for the affects on my health due to the anger you have induced
<snap-l> How about this: I give you a pat on the head at PyOhio, and don't kick you in the nuts
<snap-l> I think that's fair.
<brousch> that doesn't seem fair
<snap-l> OK, you can have the kick in the nuts, but that's my final offer.
<brousch> that's more like it
<snap-l> Never let it be said I was unreasonable.
<brousch> i love it. i just installed MS office 97 on a win7 computer. it dropped a IE3 installed on the desktop
<brousch> installer
<greg-g> lol
<_stink_> haha
<Blazeix> office 97? for the love of god, why?
<brousch> you don't want to know
<_stink_> oh yes we do
<Blazeix> he missed clippy :(
<brousch> hah, i know how to install without clippy
<brousch> 1/3 of our business applications are custom access97 databases
<brousch> my goal in life is to replace them with python
<snap-l> 1997 called. They want to know how the weather is
<greg-g> warmer
<snap-l> That's what I told them
<snap-l> Also, Apple was a good buy
<snap-l> They laughed
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> They muttered something about OS/2, and Netscape
<snap-l> Whatever that is
<greg-g> you're just baiting jcastro
<brousch> heh, another awesome thing, the access97 database was originally designed for 800x600 monitors. it is using like 15% of the screenspace on this 27" monitor
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-04
<snap-l> Good God, I'm at the 2/3rds mark for Lococast, and it's 52 minutes in.
<snap-l> good morning
<rick_h_> 258157
<rick_h_> bah, morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Episode edits winging their way to you.
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot! thanks
<rick_h_> phew, 50% off oreilly books for anti drm day and I'm out of things to buy yay!
<brousch> oooooh 50% off all o'reilly books
<snap-l> God bless identi.ca: http://identi.ca/conversation/93003333#notice-93344921
<brousch> omgwtfbbq
<brousch> i am caught up on podcasts
<snap-l> brousch: I think your podcatcher is broken
<brousch> i started skipping podcasts with topics i don't care about
<snap-l> brousch: Ah, there's a plan
<brousch> and many of them have died. no python or django podcasts any more
<shakes808> Morning all
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> on
<rick_h_> TGIF
<shakes808> It's FRIDAY BITCHES!
<snap-l> virtual machines are awesome.
<snap-l> That is all
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> http://analogindustries.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> http://www.dicecreator.com/qr-code-dice-cease-desist/ <- Ass clown of the day
<snap-l> http://codigocube.com/ <- Dumbass game that has the patent-pending QR code cube.
<brousch> why would you want qrcodes on dice?
<brousch> the only way you could read them is with a phone
<snap-l> Yes
<brousch> this seems annoying and illogical
<snap-l> And it's so NOVEL of an idea that NOBODY would EVERY think of it
<snap-l> Difference is dicecreator.com actually made a shipping product
<brousch> i'm going to put qrcodes around a spinner and make a fortune!
<snap-l> That patent is stupid
<shakes808> interesting video on the bottom of the page
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> snap-l: this is hurting my head
<snap-l> Even better, it's a pending pattent application
<snap-l> It's the equivalent of someone asking where their desk is because they filled out an employment application
<brousch> plays best on iphone but the video's file name is .wmv
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> i assume you all are going to see Wierd Al at the Fox Theater on Saturday
<brousch> the Michigan Garrison of the 501st Storm Troopers Legion will be there
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<snap-l> Live music from the DSO on WRCJ
<snap-l> brousch: Having to give it a pass unfortunately
<snap-l> Dad-in-law's b-day on Saturday.
<snap-l> (btw: that wrcj stuff is going on now)
<snap-l> http://wrcjfm.org/index.php/listen-live
<brousch> take him to the concert. everyone loves weird al
<shakes808> :( I wsh I could go
<snap-l> Wow, just got my first #ff on twitter.
<shakes808> Tickets are too expensive and already have things going on this weekend :(
<brousch> lameoid
<shakes808> snap-l: ? What is #ff?
<brousch> ColonelPanic001 is the only non-lameoid
<snap-l> Follow Friday
<rick_h_> snap-l: nice
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<snap-l> @msrcast
<shakes808> My girl and I might be going to this concert later on this year :D http://www.ticketmaster.com/Rockstar-Energy-Drink-Mayhem-Festival-tickets/artist/1423692
<snap-l> shakes808: awesomesauce
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I just hope Slipknot is still AMAZING live
<shakes808> I seen them YEARS ago and they were one of the best performances I have seen in a long time
<snap-l> shakes808: I'm sure they are, even without Paul Gray
<snap-l> for some reason, I thought Clown passed on, but I"m mistaken
<krondor> In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user.  You've got your own newsgroup alt.total-loser : love me some Weird Al!
<greg-g> lol at ticketmaster: category = "alternative rock"
<krondor> though that song is now showing its age
<snap-l> krondor: I have a feeling it's not hard to update
<shakes808> greg-g: lol
<snap-l> same number of syllables.
 * greg-g lives in a 128-bit world
 * snap-l wishes he had two-bits to rub together.
<brousch> krondor: i have a weird al pentiums t-shirt from when i saw him way back in 2000
<greg-g> I assume everyone has seen this, right? http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/day-against-drm.do
<greg-g> brousch: nice!
<brousch> it still loks decent even though i wear it once a month
<snap-l> greg-g: Seen it, and pillaged it.
<shakes808> Do you get the MUG discount on top of that?
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> shakes808: Pretty sure you only get to use one at a time
<shakes808> snap-l: :*(
<shakes808> ok
<shakes808> lo
<shakes808> l
<snap-l> but if you want to use the mug discount in lieu of the DRMFREE discount, be my guest.
<greg-g> what is the MUG discount?
<greg-g> I mean, how much?
<snap-l> 35%
<greg-g> cool
<snap-l> (Actually, it might be more than that, now that I think of it)
<shakes808> would like to get the 85% off ;)
<brousch> snap-l: i think ours is 40% of print books and 50% off ebook. code DSUG
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, OK
<brousch> looks like a generic code
<snap-l> We got the DSUG2, which is buy-one, get one free
<snap-l> but DSUG is pretty much a known quantity
<brousch> you're right, i have both of those
<brousch> also have 36% off manning if anyone cares
<shakes808> Man, the discounts are flying out of control ;)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> they give the same discounts to any user group
<greg-g> ok, I'm sorry, but this is just quirky, The book "The Art of Photography: An Approach to Personal Expression" is available in DAISY format (DAISY is the format for blind readers)
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> "With well over 100 beautiful photographic illustrations in both black-and-white and color, as well as numerous charts, graphs, and tables, this book..."
<greg-g> ... is worthless in the DAISY format
<snap-l> You never know. :)
<snap-l> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
<greg-g> I mean, granted, DAISY support sophisticated descriptions of images (think alt-text)
<greg-g> snap-l: you have silenced me.
<greg-g> sometimes, rescheduling a task's due date (to tomorrow/next week) feels productive in and of itself
<snap-l> Not all "blind" folks have lost all of their sight
<greg-g> snap-l: right, same kind of terminology with deaf (though, they usually say "deaf and hard of hearing")
 * greg-g dated an ASL interpreter for 4 years
<snap-l> Yeah, absolutes aren't the norm.
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> awesome http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/05/04/the-heartland-institute-sinks-to-a-new-low/
<greg-g> grrr, dislike my phone, always running out of "memory"
<brousch> storage or ram?
<greg-g> internal storage
<greg-g> hence the quotes around "memory" (I hate when systems use words either incorrectly or vaguely, TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG SO I CAN FIX IT! I CLEARED MY MEMORY BUT YOU SAY IT IS STILL FULL!"
<brousch> i had that on my old droid. can you move apps to SD?
<greg-g> a combination of small internal storage (2 gig, I believe) and crappy Virgin Mobile apps I can't uninstall/move to SD card
<greg-g> moved all I can :/
<brousch> ouch
<brousch> switch to the mobile web version to replace some of the apps
<brousch> like FB
<greg-g> but, there's also the other apps I've installed that don't allow moving. New rule: apps must allow moving.
<greg-g> hahhahahahahahahahaa
<greg-g> you think I have FB installed.
<brousch> i assumed virgin installed it for you
<brousch> along with ESPN Preview and Blockbuster
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> also, how can you switch to the mobile web version if you can't uninstall the app?
<brousch> hm, a good point
<greg-g> at least with a new Windows computer you can uninstall the stupid adware crap Dell installs.
<brousch> greg-g: shouldn't you be out marching with the other freetards? http://www.fsf.org/news/coalition-against-digital-restrictions-management-ready-to-go-for-may-4th-day-against-drm
<greg-g> brousch: I already did my march, I'm on the 7-9am shift
<brousch> heh
<brousch> greg-g: are you using the optimus on virgin? i almost went that route
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> cheap, decent coverage (not in Montana/Wyoming, but oh well), Android. done.
<brousch> well not quite done if you keep running out of space
<snap-l> greg-g: Check out ting.com
<snap-l> I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but liking it so far.
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, did the math, I would save like $2-3/mo, not worth the switch yet
<greg-g> but, totally my next jump
<greg-g> brousch: good point ;)
<snap-l> OK, who is the idiot who decided to distribute java code in a .exe file?
<brousch> i was concerned about coverage (especially around fremont) and the speed of the phone. space never entered my thoughts
<shakes808> snap-l: Wednesday at the CHC, I got the enemy sprites to show up and it seems to run a lot better on a Linux distro than it did on the Windows. Here is the link to the source: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
<shakes808> rick_h_: *COUGH* spaces ;)
<snap-l> shakes808: Cool. Will check it out either this weekend, or next
<shakes808> sounds good
<shakes808> I am going to be going through it at some point and see if I can clean up the code.
<shakes808> It will be something some what familiar to me and get me used to working within VI
<shakes808> going to go through the videos that rick_h_ put together and seee what I can do :D
<brousch> ah crap crap crap. tedxgrandrapids in on thursday and i haven't made any business cards for my groups
<snap-l> Ugh, Beastie Boy rapper MCA passed away.
<brousch> a day of mourning
<shakes808> :'(
<rick_h_> not to be a bad guy...but man that's one band I can do without ever hearing again
<snap-l> understandable
<snap-l> We've already established that you hate music. ;)
 * snap-l starts making rick_h_ a mixtape
 * widox cranks up some Beasie Boys
<brousch> beastie boys rock
<shakes808> older BB were good. The new stuff was just mediocre
<shakes808> Back with Paul Revere and Brass Monkey and Boomin' Granny and Girls
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Pretty much the whole License to Ill album
<brousch> I'LL STIR FRY YOU IN MY WOK
<shakes808> Like a pinch on the neck of Mr. SPOCK
<snap-l> I like Paul's boutique and Check Your Head
<snap-l> haven't listened to anything since, though
<snap-l> save for Intergalactic Planetary
<shakes808> in luei of MCA's death, Beastie Boys Pandora radio station is created..... Insane in the membrain. INSANE IN THE BRAIN
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> shakes808: Please turn in your internet connection. You're no longer welcome. ;)
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I don't have the music box do hickey
<shakes808> ;D
<greg-g> man I hate having to rewrite documents
<greg-g> especially when the first one had all the necessary politicing/schmoozing language that is so hard to write
<greg-g> (as in, I think it didn't save to U1 from work, so I don't have it here)
<snap-l> Oh, that sucks
<snap-l> no remote access to the machine that might have it?
<greg-g> nope, I even shut it down (I bring home the power cord for ease of coffee shop goings and I took the battery home to see if it would work on my x200s, it did not)
<brousch> dropbox ftw
<greg-g> yeah, I saved it in U1, like all work docs
<greg-g> or so I thought
<greg-g> that's the weird part
<greg-g> checked the web interface, not there
<snap-l> greg-g: U1 can be a PITA if it doesn't actually sync
<snap-l> have had several instances where it got into a syncing loop
<nullspace> yawn
<brousch> anyone read these? http://pragprog.com/titles
<snap-l> brousch: They're a good publisher for more tutorial-based books
<rick_h_> brousch: which ones?
<rick_h_> I've read several of them
<shakes808> have a good weekend all
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-05
<snap-l> Good morning, again
<jrwren> hello
<snap-l> I hate Tracfone
<snap-l> Trying to cancel my account and get it out of their system
<snap-l> Their response: "Your phone is inactive since ..."
<snap-l> That's not the same
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/05/05/cancel-vs-inactive/
<rick_h_> phew, crap the boy can be exhausting sometimes
<greg-g> rick_h_: :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: fit throwing? or just demanding?
<rick_h_> jrwren: just go go go
<rick_h_> grocery trips/etc are cool, but much more wrangling/etc
<jrwren> hehe, yeah.
<jrwren> fun fun!
<jrwren> very exhausting
<brousch> snap-l: we went to this today. it's a lot of drumming http://www.myspace.com/dunuyadrumanddance
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-06
<jrwren> can I remove a bootloader from my first system disk and will the bios look to the second disk for a boot loader?
<snap-l> jrwren: I think it depends on the bios, and what you're using (IDE, SATA, etc)
<snap-l> I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule in the bios for what boot order it would handle
<jrwren> ICH10 AHCI SATA
<snap-l> Pyweek is underway
<jrwren> what is it?
<snap-l> It's a one-week Python game writing competition
<rick_h_> :party
<rick_h_> heh, Chris submitted lococast to reddit, upvotes appreciated: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/t995y/lococast_podcast_episode_24_pyramidrelated_content/
<rick_h_> 448212
<brousch> done
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> (and done too)
<greg-g> upboated
<brousch> greg-g: bought a canoe to replace the kayak?
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> speaking of, have you been out on the bay?
<greg-g> on the bay? nope, not since I went to alcatraz with my parents 4 years ago
<wolfger> Whassup?
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> I miss the parties here
<wolfger> Chrysler's firewall sucks :-p
<wolfger> gah. Looks like I've semi-bricked my phone. Anybody familiar with cm7 on Captivate by any chance?
<wolfger> phone boots and can use wifi (but won't remember wifi password on reboot), but looks like it's not reading sim card at all. I have no phone number, no apn, etc. I now have a very small wifi-only tablet :-p
<brousch> hm
<brousch> never ran into that
<greg-g> wolfger: eek. never rooted my phone so can't help other than to feel bad :/
<snap-l> Hey, look what the internet brought in: wolfger
<rick_h_> dammit, how can I test this if the page to test against isn't going to be avail online?
<jrwren> rick_h_: https://bmark.us/recent/jrwren?count=50&page=7  i can't just jump to a page offset, but if I start at zero and page 7 times I can :(
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://bmark.us/jrwren/recent?count=50&page=7
<rick_h_> api is username/$action
<jrwren> indeed.
<jrwren> yet something was throwing out what i just pasted.
<jrwren> somehow that is what got put into my browser.
<jrwren> I'll pay closer attn next time
<rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, yea let me know
<jrwren> try to figure what did it.
<rick_h_> bascically recent/jrwen got you the root/recent with jrwren as a tag
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> like https://bmark.us/recent/python
<jrwren> which is not at all what I wanted, but somehow what got there.
<rick_h_> hmm, yea let me know and I'll tweak it. All tests green so probably missing some edge case somewhere
<jrwren> oh wait.
<jrwren> click mine at the top.
<jrwren> then click next to page.
<rick_h_> oh yep, so the pagitation stuff is generating urls wrong
<rick_h_> thanks
<jrwren> should I file a bug, and where should I? github?
<rick_h_> filing it now
<jrwren> ok, thanks.
<jrwren> you are too nice to file it yourself.
<jrwren> you should be making end users do it :)
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/154
<rick_h_> I'm in the middle of something atm, but I'll make sure I get to that this week. I owe you and greg-g bug fixes
<rick_h_> almost have my new readability port done though so trying to clean it up
<jrwren> man, you don't owe me nothing!
<rick_h_> heh, broken is bad :)
<jrwren> if anything, I should be sending you a patch.
<rick_h_> heh, well if it makes you feel better it's probably a swapping of prams in a single string in the PagerModel JS
<rick_h_> at least first guess
<rick_h_> nvm, it's not that simple doh
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, if even forking fails...NIH to the max! https://github.com/mitechie/breadability
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-29
<rick_h_> I'm n
<rick_h_> bah
<snap-l> Tonight in "I do stupid things so you don't have to":
<snap-l> 1) DO not try to pry a hard drive platter from a laptop drive. It will shatter.
<snap-l> 2) Hoover vacuum cleaners are powerful enough to suck up screwdrivers.
<snap-l> This has been "I do stupid things so you don't have to"
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> I'll go with morning
<snap-l> Today is errand day
<snap-l> Took today off to recouperate from Penguicon
<snap-l> Though this was a good time
<snap-l> Hotel staff was awesome
<rick_h_> that's very cool
<snap-l> And the con was a fun time
<snap-l> ok, afk for a bit.
<jrwren> greg-g: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/29/err_act_landgrab/  plz comment
<flipsidecreation> I have never made the assumption that I retain the rights to  photos I upload to Facebook / Instagram / other socials sites that monetize selling your information
<ColonelPanic001> heh, because you don't
<ColonelPanic001> Flikr at least lets you set licenses, etc. Last I knew, anyway
<jrwren> yes you do.
<jrwren> you ALWAYS retain copyright unless you explicitly license a work.
<jrwren> it is sad that anyone would not assume such.
<jrwren> We are a nation of property ignoramuses.
<jrwren> did I spell that right?
<UnFixed> dont you forfeit those rights when you sign up to such services?
<UnFixed> or is that just a companies attempt at covering their asses?
<flipsidecreation> I just don't want to pay an attorney to read the Terms & Conditions so I not even sure what I am agreeing to anymore, so I assume the worst
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/linux-3-9-brings-ssd-caching-and-drivers-to-support-modern-pcs/ the ssd caching sounds col
<UnFixed> didn't realize you could hotswap a cpu
<UnFixed> neat
<ColonelPanic001> the mouse cursor in the photo for that story is unfuriating
<ColonelPanic001> "TCP and UDP sockets now support a SO_REUSEPORT option that allows multiple sockets to listen on the same port. This enables, for example, multiple web server processes or threads to open individual sockets to listen on port 80; any connections that come in on this port will be evenly distributed across the sockets by the kernel."
<ColonelPanic001> interesting
<jrwren> rick_h_: that sounds awesome. I'd love to try it.
<rick_h_> love it: https://www.system76.com/desktops/model/leox3
<rick_h_> Ubuntu 13.04 64 bit
<jrwren> that is a really sweet system for the price.
<UnFixed> actually
<UnFixed> thats pretty pricey
<UnFixed> no monitor included in that price
<jrwren> yes, I was looking at same thing.
<jrwren> i mean, I clicked the wrong thing so I thought i was seeing specs for $759, but I was seeing specs for $1400ish
<UnFixed> yeah
<snap-l> Hm, I think I have enough tracks to make another Club Metal episode in the coming weeks
<rick_h_> this is cool. As someone that works from home wanted this for a while http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/29/keen-home-launches-crowdfunding-campaign-for-its-connected-central-heating-and-cooling-vents/
<jrwren> wow, such a good idea!
<jrwren> one that is so simple i"m sorry I didn't have it.
<snap-l> greg-g: http://toumai.bandcamp.com/track/wiki-puppies
<snap-l> Where's tjagoda when you need him
<snap-l> "BlackBerry Q10 selling at rate of âthousands per hourâ in UK"
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or
<snap-l> transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, mechnical, photocopying,
<snap-l> recording, or otherwise, without the prior express permission of the publisher.
<snap-l> That said, if youâre doing it for personal use, knock yourself out.
<snap-l> Thatâs not only allowed, we encourage you to do it.
<snap-l> For those working at a copy shop and not at all sure if this means
<snap-l> the person standing at your counter can make copies of this
<snap-l> thing, they can. This is âexpress permission.â Carry on.
<greg-g> jrwren: so, this is basically a reasonable approach to the Orphan Works issue. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_works also, a project I worked on at UM library: http://www.lib.umich.edu/orphan-works
<greg-g> jrwren: however, I think they are jumping the gun a bit, since they haven't completed the clearing house thing that I forgot the name of
<greg-g> jrwren: this all came out of "The Hargraves Report" which was chock full of great suggestions
<greg-g> jrwren:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hargreaves_Review_of_Intellectual_Property_and_Growth
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-30
<brousch> I was thinking of buying one of these http://www.fsf.org/news/ryf-certification-thinkpenguin-usb-with-atheros-chip
<brousch> But it's $54
<snap-l> The source code reviewed as part of our certification process for this product includes the open-ath9k-htc-firmware and the Linux-libre 3.9 kernel.
<snap-l> What is this Linux-libre thing?
<snap-l> And does this mean that Nacho Libre is also FSF-monickered?
<snap-l> Ah, OK. I see what this is
<snap-l> It's Linux with the non-free bits removed
<snap-l> Excellent branding.
<snap-l> brousch: Honestly, $54 for no-hassle wireless is a-ok in my book
<brousch> I don't know. I could buy five random adapters for $10  each and 4 of them will work
<rick_h_> gotta support the freedom lovers
<snap-l> brousch: Why do you hate freedom?
<brousch> It's too expensive
<snap-l> Please show me on the doll where freedom touched you.
<brousch> I'm a free lover!
<rick_h_> just not willing to support the extra work of freedom
<rick_h_> lazy freedom :P
<brousch> I thought freedom was free
<rick_h_> heh yea...common misconception
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<ColonelPanic001> freedom is like happiness. You're not supposed to get it, just pursue it. Preferably with made-in-china magnets on your car.
<rick_h_> so ummm, http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=42.70860&lon=-83.43970&zoom=10&type=terrain&units=english&tl.play=0&tl.spd=2&viewportstart=now-3623&viewportend=now-23&groupSevere=1&groupHurricane=1&groupFire=1&groupCamsPhotos=1&groupRealEstate=1&extremes=0&fault=0&femaflood=0&fire=0&firewfas=0&fissures=0&fronts=0&hurrevac=0&hur=0&lightning=0&livesurge=0&mm=0&ndfd=0&rad=1&rad.num=1&rad.spd=25&rad.opa=70&rad.type=00Q&rad.t
<rick_h_> damn sneaky big links
<rick_h_> lol, so that's probably why it provides a short link option http://wxug.us/13m28
<ColonelPanic001> hm. I've seen this before, actually.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm glad you mentioned it. I advise moving away from city centers and the white house. Aliens are about to float over and shoot down a big beam of kaboom.
<ColonelPanic001> actually, that's a nice site. I usually go to weatherspark.com
<ColonelPanic001> have to remember this one, too
<ColonelPanic001> for just a radar display, think I might kind of prefer this one
<rick_h_> I like the rss feed from here I use to keep up with things
<rick_h_> and it adds local alerts to the rss feed which brought me to the radar
<ColonelPanic001> damn, even plots lightning strikes? that's completely useless yet really cool
<ColonelPanic001> for me anyway
<ColonelPanic001> not like I'm going to dodge them
<rick_h_> lol
<ColonelPanic001> still interesting though, even says positive/negative, etc
<snap-l> duplicity is really starting to get on my nerves
<snap-l> seriously, this thing is designed for files that never change
<snap-l> And gave obnam a try. Seems awesome, but has a critical flaw in 1.3, and the person with the Ubuntu PPA hasn't released the 1.4 version for 12.04
<jcastro> I just use dropbox for everything
<ColonelPanic001> another reminder to me that I have to get a box together for owncloud
<rick_h_> jcastro: +1 though my rsync + nas ftw for full every single little dotfile I have
<rick_h_> dropbox at 50G isn't big enough
<rick_h_> and paying for more :/
<rick_h_> but important can't live without and cool to have available on mobile tablets/etc dropbox ftw
<jcastro> I have 100GB
<jcastro> they do photos now
<jcastro> and with picasa/g+ being a cluster it's a nobrainer to use dropbox for everything
<rick_h_> yea, my /home/$me is 79GB atm
<jcastro> I do keep an rsync'ed copy of my dropbox on my NAS as well
<rick_h_> I went to picasa for photos. Just wish their android app did uploads/etc
<jcastro> as well as an ISO mirror of course, heh
<jcastro> they're dumb
<jcastro> the G+ app will do uploads
<jcastro> but then you have copies in both G+
<rick_h_> sorry, not picasa, flickr
<jcastro> which are synced back to picasa
<rick_h_> went from picasa -> flickr
<jcastro> it's a mess
<rick_h_> right, picasa/etc ugh
<jcastro> every time I'm like "you know, maybe I can replace dropbox with something else"
<jcastro> they land a new feature
<rick_h_> heh yea
<rick_h_> <3 those guys (python woot)
<jcastro> btsync is ok
<jcastro> but I don't want to pay for an instance to keep things offsite
<jcastro> so there's no advantages there for me mostly vs. dropbox
<jcastro> https://www.copy.com/home/ is excellent too
<jcastro> also has a native app
<greg-g> wait, g+ app doesn't do photos?! that's... why do you all put up with that shit?
<jcastro> it does do photos
<greg-g> I mean, like, upload, you know, create/share
<jcastro> it does
<jcastro> but it's annoying
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> you can't just like "send this photo of this pic to my dad"
<rick_h_> it's too G+
<jcastro> it's like circles and all this crap
<jcastro> wants to by default share on G+
<jcastro> so you need to upload it
<jcastro> then go into the browser
<jcastro> open the pic
<jcastro> then use your browser to get the URL
<jcastro> because you can't direct navigate to it
<jcastro> then you end up with this crap:
<jcastro> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NjSJNhcN-z4/UX6uOoq9RcI/AAAAAAABPvU/uHPJ8rx7CTM/w1260-h945/IMG_20130429_132733.jpg
<jcastro> nice URL!
<jcastro> and from there the only way you can share is to G+
<jcastro> no email, no direct link, nothing.
<jcastro> imgur basically does a way better job
<jcastro> http://db.tt/NjWi8asC
<jcastro> or I can just click in dropbox to get that ^^ done.
<jcastro> which doesn't work apparently
<greg-g> ohhh, I misread you guys
<jcastro>  http://db.tt/XLKEEjVX
<jcastro> ok does that work for you guys?
<greg-g> yeah, google fails a lot of the time
<jcastro> yeah they just fail worse than normal with photos
<greg-g> jcastro: "creating album... this page will display your new album once its created"
<jcastro> it's like, why are there 2 photo services
<jcastro> greg-g: yeah, the dropbox stuff is beta, so it's a bit slow
 * jcastro had to opt in and beg
<greg-g> flickr "just effing works" for me
<jcastro> I bailed on flickr when they made you move to a yahoo account
<snap-l> OK, now that we've had this little detour to "cloud shit that doesn't make my backups work"... ;)
<jcastro> and I didn't feel like being jorgecastro289374298374982734982374@yahoo.com
<greg-g> jcastro: it's a fucking email that isn't displayed anywhere....
<greg-g> that you don't have to use (you can set your primary email to whatever)
<snap-l> Yeah, but it means I have to have a yahoo account. ;)
<snap-l> regardless though...
<greg-g> petty
<greg-g> anyways
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> snap-l: flickr works sans yahoo account :P
<rick_h_> https://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.lang=en-US&.partner=&.last=&.src=flickrsignin&.pd=flickrsignin_ver%3D0%26c%3DJvVF95K62e6PzdPu7MBv2V8-%26ivt%3D%26sg%3D&pkg=&stepid=&.done=https%3a//login.yahoo.com/config/validate%3f.src=flickrsignin%26.pc=8190%26.scrumb=0%26.pd=c%253DJvVF95K62e6PzdPu7MBv2V8-%26.intl=us%26.done=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.flickr.com%252Fsignin%252Fyahoo%252F%253Fredir%253D%25252Fphoto_grease_postlogi
<snap-l> I'm still without my local backups because of two fails. ;)
<greg-g> ok, and speaking of "oh so wonderful google" apparently you can't use any gdoc after a suspend, it freezes Fx
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, but GOogle gets a pass
<greg-g> why?
<greg-g> they've already had their fair share of passes
<greg-g> stockholm
<snap-l> yeah, likely.
<greg-g> sorry, apparently I'm annoyed this morning
<greg-g> my excuse is that it's MY monday as I was sick at home yesterday
<snap-l> Today is my monday too because of Penguicon and taking yesterday off to handle errands.
<rick_h_> heh, you monday'ers
<rick_h_> my project got pushed back again so I worked all weekend for nothing and found out middle of yesterday. So today I'm just happy. :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Your team lead needs to seriously get his shit otgether
<snap-l> together
<snap-l> That's fucking bullshit
<greg-g> rick_h_: hah
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: glyn moody is pretty good, and he has a response to that article/issue you linked to before, as well: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130430/09022922890/no-uk-did-not-just-abolish-copyright-despite-what-photographers-seem-to-think.shtml
<greg-g> stupid long techdirt urls
<greg-g> jrwren: full disclosure: I didn't read anymore than the title ;)
<greg-g> which you can get from the url
<greg-g> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-01
<rick_h_> ow ow ow, the legs they burns
<snap-l> greg-g: My only issue with glyn moody (and this is my own failing) is that he's a postinig machine on whatever network I folow him on
<snap-l> Have to turn the volume down
<rick_h_> ok, system76 ordered. /me can't wait to hit that up
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/04/htc-employee-to-redditors-sorry-about-the-thunderbolt/
<rick_h_> grrr, newsblur why for you tell me I have 7 unread messages in my linux folder yet clicking on that shows me no new items?
<jrwren> thanks greg-g
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I saw that. Makes me REALLY proud to have a spent HTC Thunderbolt on my desk
<snap-l> JoDee loved the phone, but I think she's happier with the Galaxy Nexus
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I don't follow his dents for that reason
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> morn
<_stink_> yo
<snap-l> btw: CHC tonight.
<greg-g> hola
<snap-l> How-dy
<jrwren> happy days greg-g :)
<greg-g> happy may day! ;)
<snap-l> Apparently OS X 10.9 is called Cabernet
<snap-l> APparently they ran out of exotic cats
<snap-l> Also, Thunderbird is really stupid when it comes to printing out multiple messages
<snap-l> Wanted to combine several rss articles into a PDF
<snap-l> so, selected them, and hit "print", set to a file, and thought "I am so smart"
<snap-l> Except it printed the first one to the file, and then proceeded to print everything else to the printer.
<snap-l> at which point I got a little angry. :)
<snap-l> Honestly, if I could have everything defaul to "print to file" and then have the PDF reader be able to print things, I'd be rather happy.
<snap-l> Got our reapproval "bug"
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-locoteams/+bug/1175232
<snap-l> and responded:
<snap-l> Our team has decided to let our approval lapse. Please see our meeting notes from April for more information:
<snap-l> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/04/08/%23ubuntu-us-mi.html#t01:19
<snap-l> (and marked it as invalid)
<greg-g> private bug
<snap-l> Yeah, you have to be signed in and be the team contact
<snap-l> or on the loco council
<greg-g> heh, both things I not longer am ;)
 * greg-g is wearing his Barcelona UDS shirt today
<snap-l> coolness
<greg-g> I thought the juxtaposition was neat
<greg-g> but yeah, I missed the meeting, and have no real say anymore, but I agree with your assessment
<snap-l> You're still a member of the team. :)
<snap-l> Even if you are in hippiville US
<greg-g> oh right :)
<snap-l> ACtually, that's not accurate
<snap-l> Hipsterville US
<snap-l> Hippieville is Sedona
<snap-l> or is that whackowille
 * snap-l is an american and fails geography
<snap-l> greg-g: But I do appreciate it
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> geowhat?
<jrwren> we aren't a locoteam no more? CONGRATS!
<brousch> No more CoC?!
<greg-g> brousch: not that you've been acting according to it or anything :P
<jrwren> wow, i missed that meeting. excellent decision making!  go team! (i'm not being sarcastic)
<jcastro> I'd rather not care about approval status tbh
<jcastro> as long as we meet and drink beer every once in a while
<jcastro> who cares
<jcastro> it's probably easier to just ask me, smoser, or rick to get us swag than go through the reapproval gauntlet
<greg-g> we're a privileged team ;)
<greg-g> we have friends with (canonical) benefits
<greg-g> I could keep riffing, but I'll stop
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamApprovalGuidelines
<jcastro> that's just a bunch of busywork no one wants to do
<jcastro> who cares, meet and talk about ubuntu and tech.
<jcastro> if it's called "CHC" no one cares
<greg-g>  /rename channel #ubuntu-us-mi #ubuntu-techchats-and-beer
<jcastro> it's like
<jcastro> be unofficial and do no work
<jcastro> or be official and fill out a  bunch of crap
<jcastro> nobrainer there.
<jcastro> though, I can see for teams that have a large regional linux show in their area
<smoser> snap-l, that bug is deleted ?
<smoser> (i can't see it)
<jcastro> where it would be important, like CA for SCALE, Ohio for OLF, etc.
<greg-g> smoser: it's private
<jrwren> how is the sausage made?
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/0nyN6kNO3UYqmQlzGUqV/
<snap-l> Pasted a response to Bhavani
<greg-g> snap-l: zing
<snap-l> smoser: Unfortunately they make that bug private between the council and the contact
<greg-g> but, they're just doing what they should do, quasi-exit interview :)
<snap-l> greg-g: understandable
<snap-l> Honestly, it's best for the loco council to get out of the patrol business
<snap-l> then they can work on more important matters
<greg-g> +1000
<snap-l> I know they likely don't see it that way, because I'm sure that's what they perceive their role to be
<greg-g> when I was on it, that's all we did. Sure, we could have just worked more hours and done more, but man, it was draining
<snap-l> greg-g: No doubt
<snap-l> This isn't project runway
<greg-g> I think they *want* to do more to help with the health of the loco community, but, yeah, hampered right now
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> Yay, library sent me a note letting me know that 4 hour chef is in
<greg-g> whoa:
<greg-g> "Look into the toilet, into its waters, and perhaps you will notice
<greg-g> Ubuntu One being there."
<snap-l> Harsh
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/+bug/720707/comments/34
<snap-l> Granted, there shouldn't be a two-year turnaround on this bug
<snap-l> but there's also no reason for that kind of language in a bug
<greg-g> yeah, especially for one of the places Canonical could potentially make money
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> I knew it was going to be bad with the recent comments, should probably unsubscribe. I don't use U1 anymore anyways (doesn't fit my "have a combo of Ubuntu and Debian machines, and U1 doesn't support Debian, lol)
<greg-g> put an end-quote up there where appropriate
<greg-g> also, "use case"
<snap-l> I barely use it. it's mostly for U1 music storage
<snap-l> which, btw, counts against your limit
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> and I have yet to get the streaming service to work without stttering
<dzho> haha, the nastiest bit is the part where no swear words are used
<dzho> holi-bullsit ?
<dzho> lolwut
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> Also: Hocus Pocus by Focus is my jam.
<jrwren> i never used U1, because... why. :)
<snap-l> You like burying your files along with your money?
<jrwren> yes!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-02
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> morning
<snap-l> feel like a space cadet this morning. Damn allergies.
<snap-l> brb/
<brousch> Why is MakerFaire Detroit always in conflict with PyOhio?
<rick_h_> because PyOhio don't care :P
<brousch> I'm part of GRMakers and we have a big group going to Detroit this year
<rick_h_> ah
<brousch> Was at mobile dev and makers from 5:20PM - midnight yesterday
<rick_h_> ah, party party
<rick_h_> man I <3 usb3
<rick_h_> copying 80GB like it's nadda
<snap-l> The new The Ocean album is pretty great
<brousch> Billy Ocean?
<snap-l> http://theoceancollective.com/pelagial/
<snap-l> I wish more bands released an instrumental disc of their music to go along with the regular disc
<snap-l> Man, to think I passed this up for a paganini disc. Thankfully the Paganini disc was scratched, so I decided to trade up the exchange for this album.
<snap-l> Had to look up the word "Twerking" to understand a news headline
<greg-g> I just lost 30 secons of my life thanks to that
<waldo323> rick_h_, i think my issue was an old install of ksplice getting in the way of depmod running correctly
<snap-l> greg-g: Be glad t was only 30 seconds
<brousch> snap-l: Twerk sounds like what they'd call you in middle school
<snap-l> derekv: You're just now realizing RESTful is not a guarantee?
<snap-l> http://news.turbulenz.com/post/49430669886/turbulenz-engine-goes-open-source <- this looks cool
<jrwren> i feel like we are getting there with our setuptools and debian packing. YAY
<brousch> My javascript file for this complicated page is such a mess. rick_h_ would beat me about the head and neck if he saw it
<brousch> 500 lines of unorganized jquery
<rick_h_> brousch: sounds good, let me know when you want this beating
<greg-g> guh, me and touchpads don't get along
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: so, is there the choice to just buy your own laptop and bring it in?
<rick_h_> greg-g: something I've done my last couple of jobs since they gave out crap hardware
<greg-g> I mean, I could, but:
<rick_h_> greg-g: k, just checking. I know some places have policy/etc
<brousch> Get a usb mouse
<greg-g> mostly, my x200s works fine, I just want to leave it at home/not lug it to/from work every day
<rick_h_> yea, I have three of those MS arc mice (older gen) for some portable stuff.
<rick_h_> greg-g: gotcha
<greg-g> brousch: I'm on a counch, when I'm at my standing desk, it isn't any issue
<brousch> ah
<greg-g> which basically means: this laptop is a great desktop, but a horrible laptop
<greg-g> s/desktop/nettop/
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> macbookair 13" fits into pannier with change of clothes and lunch. :)
<jrwren> bike commute ftw!
<rick_h_> <3 http://www.tombihn.com/backpacks/TB0111.html
<rick_h_> I think it's the perfect bag if you're a sub 14" laptop person
<greg-g> jrwren: the x200s fits in my pannier, but I have real hills here, so even just a couple pounds is annoying :)
<jrwren> lol. I'll remember that as i'm going up the traver rd. hills today :)
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> backpacks + bikes => pain
<rick_h_> ok, time to reboot and install raring. See you all on the other side.
<jrwren> good luck rick_h_
<rick_h_> I don't know, I like small backpacks myself.
<jrwren> why not install and then reboot?
<greg-g> panniers ftw ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: because I need to reboot into my usb device to blow things away and install...and reboot
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> i upgrade.
<rick_h_> I like the change to clean house. Only copy off the old backup what i need as I need it. Then stick it on the NAS for years until I go 'wtf...delete'
<rick_h_> /change/chance
<rick_h_> and one less worry if something breaks, though it sholdn't
<jrwren> yup, lots of people do it that way.
<jrwren> i like the ease of upgrade, walk away, come back. done.
<jrwren> i don't have to do anything
<greg-g> except get new software, yay!
<jrwren> yay!
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> and i'm not hating xfce.
<jrwren> its matured a lot and uses old windows keybindings, so I know how ot use it.
<jrwren> unity ui can diaf
<rick_h_> yay for usb installs from usb3
<rick_h_> so, anyone know where the DE picker from lightdm went in 13.04?
<rick_h_> using unity isn't exactly my hope and dream
<rick_h_> dammit
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h_> seriously, I can login, but there's no button/control/etc to choose any alt DE
<greg-g> boy I love the Canonical Design Team
<rick_h_> I found refernece to a .dmrc file, but every time I change it, log out nad back in it gets rewritten
<rick_h_> hmm, and no font adjustments?
<greg-g> so, seriously, this can't be right, they wouldn't knowingly make it so you can't select your DM anymore
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I found a bug from last year about seeing the option but not clickable
<greg-g> I remember seeing a bug about the raring lightdm greeter where someone's list of 4 or 5 DEs was too long and they couldn't select things
<rick_h_> and I have three different sessions in ls /usr/share/xsessions/
<rick_h_> gnome, ubuntu, awesome
<greg-g> well, guess who's not updating this ubuntu install then
<greg-g> if you had done an upgrade, I'd just blame it on your crazy amount of customization, but as this is a clean install....
<greg-g> I think Ubuntu has a dotfile limit, right?
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> dotfile limit?
<rick_h_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m701hfe9h2pwnql/2013-05-02%2018.09.20.jpg
<rick_h_> anyone see anything diff?
<greg-g> rick_h_: joke, sorry
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> is there a button on the top/bottom right?
<rick_h_> no, the only button is that arrow which logs me in
<greg-g> anywhere on the screen?
<greg-g> like, near where it says the time?
<rick_h_> there's the accessibility/wifi/etc up to the top right
<rick_h_> but nothing that looks like choosing a DE
<greg-g> this suggests maybe that gear button: http://www.noobslab.com/2013/04/tweaksthings-to-do-after-install-of.html
<rick_h_> greg-g: not following
<rick_h_> greg-g: I see they turn off some dots and they turn off the extra sesssions but they look my screen w/o a DE chooser button in the user login controls
<greg-g> sorry, copy fail: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4S_Ok5pAoEQ/UXhMfwgfLII/AAAAAAAAC_Y/yLVu7BZwXYo/s1000/white-dot.jpg
<greg-g> the gear in the top right
<rick_h_> that gear is just reboot, shutdown
<greg-g> well damn
<greg-g> hahah
<greg-g> perfect
<greg-g> sorry
<rick_h_> damn...this is annoying.
<rick_h_> I mean, I expect to have to run some unity next week. However, wtf
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/awesome/+bug/1094811 jcastro had a bug in an ask ubuntu closed question for me
<brousch> The K is calling you
<rick_h_> I'd stick with unity :P
<brousch> Kome join the Klan
<rick_h_> if I wanted windows I'd just use windows
<rick_h_> though that's an outdated view of the K I suppose
<brousch> So much nicer than windows
<rick_h_> oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh yea that feels better
<rick_h_> but report had a hack/fix to the session file
<greg-g> rick_h_: huh, don't you also have gnome3 installed? I thought you did for some reason
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, I don't know why gnome was in the sesion list
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> well then
<rick_h_> for some reason the session file that came with the awesome package has a 'NoShow=true' or someting on it
<greg-g> yeah, odd
<rick_h_> yea, don't know why they're listed in the sessions like that ootb
<rick_h_> phew, feel alive again. vim works, keyboard shortcuts work, chrome is catching up. yay
<greg-g> chrome is catching up?
<rick_h_> yea, put in your auth to sync and takes a few for the extensoins, history completion, etc to catch up
<rick_h_> so starting to look close to usual
<greg-g> oh, right
<brousch> The first thing I install is deadsnakes and ALL THE PYTHONS
<rick_h_> woot, python3 --version 3.3.1
<rick_h_> on raring so no more need to compile my own python yay
<brousch> You didn't have to before :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-03
<snap-l> http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/album/zehn-schritte-in-richtung-der-leere
<snap-l> "A new experimental, guitar-driven piece by the ever-productive K. Holte"
<snap-l> I think I could play this, and I don't know guitar
<snap-l> Something tells me this was also "done in one take"
<snap-l> as though that is a badge of honor
<snap-l> I'm sure it's also artisinal
<mathomastech> Been feeling like cr** all day. Tired but can't get any sleep. Decided to be somewhat productive so I am flashing multirom onto my N7 and installing Ubuntu.
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<rick_h_> howdy
<mathomastech> morning
<mathomastech> rick_h_  Did you ever get awesome working in 13.04?
<rick_h_> mathomastech: yea, found a bug that had a chack around
<rick_h_> an no config file bork-ness so guess I'll be using it for the next 6mo :)
<mathomastech> rick_h_: Cool. Was that in the link on your G+ post?
<rick_h_> mathomastech: yep
<mathomastech> rick_h_: Alright, thanks. Ill take a look at that tonight.
<jcastro> snap-l: craig
<jcastro> craig
<jcastro> craig
<rick_h_> uh oh
<snap-l> Hello?
<snap-l> Hello?
<snap-l> Hello?
<snap-l> Hello?
<snap-l> jcastro: ^^
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'm going to go out on a limb and say check G+ snap-l
<snap-l> Gigantour
<jcastro> snap-l: gigantour
<snap-l> Hm, so one band I really like,
<snap-l> one band I'm curious about (Newsted)
<snap-l> One band I can't stand (Black Label Society)
<snap-l> and two bands I haven't heard yet. (Device and Death Division)
<snap-l> That leaves Hellyeah, which... eh. :)
<snap-l> Will need to think abou this.
<snap-l> And no ticket prices
<jcastro> newsted is ok
<jcastro> one great song
<jcastro> 3 meh ones on the EP
<ColonelPanic001> 1/4 of slayer died :|
<ColonelPanic001> At least it was something cool sounding, complications of a spider bite. They could write a song about it.
<brousch> oooooo http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/05/03/1222220/barnes-noble-adds-google-play-store-to-the-nook
<snap-l> brousch: wait, what?
<brousch> Nooks have Google Play now
<brousch> Instead of just their worthless B&N app store
<flipsidecreation> My hacked nook always has :)
<brousch> flipsidecreation: Mine too, but that's not reall the point ;)
<snap-l> I'll be uber pissed if it's just a HD update
<snap-l> Well, it's just a HD update
 * brousch opens his umbrella to deflect the uber-piss
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Hoping it's a temp oversight
<snap-l> Honestly, I like the Nook eco system, but their app store is atrocious
<flipsidecreation> I have the original nook color, its been good but I never used the nook ecosystem.  I hacked it an hour after I bought it
<brousch> flipsidecreation: I have the same and used it stock for about a month
<brousch> My son still uses it with CM nearly every day
<flipsidecreation> I am finally retiring my nook
<flipsidecreation> Some games are just a bit too slow
<brousch> I've upgraded to an Asus Transformer Infinity
<flipsidecreation> I have the samsung Note 2 phone and a chinese tablet for the kids
<brousch> They can read Chinese?!
<flipsidecreation> I hope they never have to...lol
<snap-l> heh
<flipsidecreation> I updated my laptop from 12.10 to 13.04.  Smoothest update ever.
<flipsidecreation> going to do my office computer soon, hopefully 12.04 to 13.04 goes as smooth
<snap-l> https://speakerdeck.com/nickbruun/lessons-learned-defying-joel-spolsky-with-django <- I'm sorry, but when you say ORMs are Stupid, you mean Django's bastardization of an ORM is stupid.
<brousch> Django ORM is the bizomb
<snap-l> I hate it when people say "ORMs are stupid" and when pressed on which ORM, it's the one that has braindamage
<snap-l> It's like saying horseriding is stupid after riding the beginner horse at a stable.
<snap-l> Or saying "Racing is stupid" after betting bored on lap three of a go-kart track
<snap-l> s/betting/being.
<rick_h_> notice he runs after saying how awesome django orm is before I get back
<jrwren> django orm is not stupid.
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> s/stupid/not mind readers.
<jrwren> yes, no shit, ORM are not mind readers.  ffs, know what they are doing.
<jrwren> same old shit, just said in the same old harsh way.
<rick_h_> yea, but still...if your idea of an ORM is Django, or rails AR, then you are not qualified to speak about ORMS as a whole
<jrwren> bullshit.
<jrwren> rails AR or any AR
<rick_h_> "I used django, they had a module named ORM, therefore ORMs suck because it wasn't as good as raw SQL when I typed this..."
<jrwren> django orm is a data mapper impl.
<rick_h_> hate seeing that crap
<jrwren> yes, I hate seeing that crap too.
<jrwren> that is what I mean.
<jrwren> i hate ORM abuse too.
<jrwren> so stop the abuse!
<jrwren> i'd love to see it profiled without abusing the orm.
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh come as, as far as ORMs go, the django ORM is a mountain of pita.
<jrwren> that said, at the volume they claim, orm is probably not the right choice.
<rick_h_> jrwren: does it support combo pkey yet?
<jrwren> rick_h_: hahaha, you haven't used a lot of the .net orm
<rick_h_> jrwren: my understanding was that they had a hibernate rip-off that was decent?
<jrwren> nhibernate is far from decent
<jrwren> although its probably 1000X faster than python :)
<jrwren> i like the 91ms -> 29ms ->20ms jinja2 claim. that is cool.
<rick_h_> yea, armin and mike have had a lot of back/forth on perf with jinja2 and mako
<jrwren> sounds like it might have been a good talk, with annoying slides :)
<rick_h_> speed is equiv, just pick if you want lots of plugins to write or just write python
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, more usb3 ports. hub arrived
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I knew that would be a hot button for you. :)
<rick_h_> yea, well have 2 usb3 external drives and 2 usb3 thumb drives
<rick_h_> but only one port on the laptop and even the desktop only comes iwth 2, none on the front of it
<rick_h_> moar usb3 ports!
<snap-l> I meant the Django ORM. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh, gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, brousch ran away from my django ORM rant :p
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> :P
<brousch> We had to shut down all the power to replace a window
 * rick_h_ is trying to think that one through. 
<snap-l> Um...
<snap-l> Alarm system?
<snap-l> otherwise I got nothin
<brousch> It was right below the power cables going into the building
<brousch> I'm doing a ginormous update of my Django work application right now
<snap-l>  just chuckled at the tought of Westboro Baptist Church pickleting Jeff Hanneman's funeral
<snap-l> Wow, i can type.
<snap-l> http://garywarnett.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/slayerselfharm.jpg
<snap-l> This will not end well
<greg-g> a legit looking tattoo is in that mix, which seems stupid
<_stink_> something about that jpg seems stupid?
<snap-l> greg-g: Blame the person who compiled those images
<snap-l> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dp8j9Gw8Tvk/TxYSaYUJQHI/AAAAAAAABgk/3hc-u3tbVlk/s1600/slayer+carving.jpg
<snap-l> http://www.carveslayer.com/
<greg-g> this fucking peice of shit dell
<greg-g> now the battery is not charging past 30%
<snap-l> Sounds like it's time to invoke the lemon law
<greg-g> jcastro: rick_h_ tell mark to quit the deal with dell, they're fucking shit up
<greg-g> why not choose a vendor that does linux decently, like lenovo
<brousch> system76!
<greg-g> not a fan of their built quality, they use the same barebones supplier that dell does
<greg-g> s/t/d/
<snap-l> greg-g: Probably because Dell is in the business of selling machines, and they likely approached Canonical
 * greg-g stops self from ranting any more
<jcastro> greg-g: unfortunately all the lenovo stuff is non-US.
<jcastro> I feel your pain
<greg-g> and our stupid IT department is like "the wifi antennas in the lenovos don't get as good of a signal as the dells, so we're only buying these shitty macbook air knockoffs from dell now. enjoy!"
 * greg-g failed at stopping himself
<jcastro> hah that sucks
<jcastro> snap-l: so, the lineup for gigantour. THAT is what it's supposed to look like
<jcastro> not this orion stuff
<snap-l> Meh, there's some good bands on Orion as well
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<rick_h_> jcastro: I have that same water system
<jcastro> yeah fuck that thing
<rick_h_> yea, I'm tempted to get the rain sensor gauge for it but didn't want to spend another hundreds on top of it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-04
<rick_h_> jcastro: is juju/lxc/raring all happy?
<rick_h_> hoping to start doing all my charms locally when the destkop arrives
<rick_h_> jcastro: and saw your thing in G+ about a microserver alt and wondering if it's for that kind of stuff or something else
<jcastro> no local provider in goju
<jcastro> so like ~ a month?
<jcastro> everything else is peachy
<rick_h_> :( crap
<rick_h_> k, good to know before I go trying it
<jcastro> yeah so the workaround
<rick_h_> but it's in pyjuju right?
<jcastro> (you won't like this)
<jcastro> is update-alternatives between pyju and goju
<rick_h_> actually haven't run/tried gojuju yet, just know the gui runs on it
<jcastro> no pyju
<jcastro> we flipped the switch
<jcastro> cortez burned ships
<jcastro> caesar crossed the rubicon
<jcastro> you play the game of thrones to win or die
<rick_h_> orly? I setup my machine today and was doing py stuff
<jcastro> and so on
<rick_h_> pyzookeeper and such for the gui dev work
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> if you do "apt-get install juju" yeah
<jcastro> but the instructions, etc all say "apt-get install juju-core"
<rick_h_> k, I'll have to remember to bring things check in with peeps next week on the right way to work on stuff these days
<jcastro> yeah so we had a bunch of new people in the charm school today
<jcastro> so stuff is working
<jcastro> marco couldn't get the gui to deploy but no idea what the problem is
<jcastro> figure we'll just try on monday lol
<rick_h_> hmmm, I know they had a breakage this week but thought it was all good. it's all tested and such
<jcastro> tested on goju?
<rick_h_> I know I did a deploy to ec2 for a test demo
<jcastro> yeah, he had other problems
<rick_h_> ah, well right, that's the question. I know their release works on gojuju
<jcastro> so it could have been a localized problem
<rick_h_> but I think I only did it on pyjuju
<jcastro> so goju is like mostly there
<jcastro> enough to be like, if there's a bug you at least know there's someone there to fix it
<rick_h_> k
<jcastro> for most people feature parity is there
<jcastro> just the summer to clean up a bit
<rick_h_> hoping with the desktop to start imersing myself in stuff more
<jcastro> and then fall on it's all unlimited sky ...
<rick_h_> cool
<jcastro> man dude
<jcastro> your shit looks so nice with the icons
<jcastro> people are going to lick it up
<rick_h_> https://ec2-23-20-230-72.compute-1.amazonaws.com/ is the latest demo
<rick_h_> gary is just updating it as we speak for oakland with the changes from this week
<jcastro> I UNDERSTAND THE RISKS
<rick_h_> with the browser work in there ootb and such
<rick_h_> heh, FF?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I had to, chrome is a crashy mess lately
<jcastro> https://ec2-23-20-230-72.compute-1.amazonaws.com/sidebar/precise/ceph-8/
<jcastro> that looks so hot.
<jcastro> hey, the     cs:precise/ceph-8
<jcastro> the -8
<jcastro> is a revision or something?
<rick_h_> yea, so the idea is that we'll be able to load info from charms deployed in the environment, local charms, etc
<rick_h_> and the rev is important
<rick_h_> and to allow us to pull data from the charm store on old revs. Right now we only keep the latest, but we want to support old data
<jcastro> yeah I just don't dig it in the URL
<rick_h_> so you can put this in your environment, and click on mysql and see you've deployed cs:precise/mysql-10, but there's cs:precise/mysql-12 out
<rick_h_> well, it's tough because we want urls to be sharable
<jcastro> so why is the revision in the url out of curiosity
<rick_h_> if I copy/paste the url and it's mysql v10 and send it to you and it loads mysql v12
<rick_h_> the stuff could read/be different
<jcastro> you'd think ".../precise/ceph" is what you want
<jcastro> oh oh
<jcastro> I see what you mean
<rick_h_> we specifically want any url to load the same when shared
<jcastro> but you got it so the rel="canonical" is just /ceph right?
<rick_h_> very important with things like social sharing, etc
<rick_h_> https://ec2-23-20-230-72.compute-1.amazonaws.com/precise/ceph-1
<jcastro> yeah I was just worried about getting wailed on by google for multiple similar content in the same domain
<rick_h_> yea, not sure what to do about that.
<jcastro> I think lp knows how to do that
<jcastro> I'll bring it up in the metrics session
<rick_h_> yea, we can do some research
<rick_h_> we're just working off priority of urls being very very sharable as a bit requirement
<jcastro> nod
<jcastro> I agree with all of that
<jcastro> the urls are nice
<jcastro> I mean, make fun of launchpad all you want, the URL scheme is fucking awesome
<jcastro> you can just url hack all you want
<jcastro> and it just works
<rick_h_> yea, there's still some work to do on it but it's a solid start
<rick_h_> hopefully demo goes well in oakland and people are happy
<jcastro> we'll be fine
<rick_h_> we'll be working on it next 6mo as well so lots more to do
<jcastro> you're no more doomed than me
<jcastro> mramm is probably doomed more. :p
<rick_h_> heh, I'd like to try to avoid doomed at all if possible
 * rick_h_ isn't used to having to worry about doomed :P
<jcastro> meh it's all good
<snap-l> btw: is anyone up for doing a what's new in raring for MUG on the 14th?
<tjagoda> Hurr
<rick_h_> hurr?
<snap-l> hurr
<tjagoda> ohi
<jrwren> harr
<snap-l> Fuck comcast
<snap-l> y
<snap-l> really hate dealing with them andtheir not knowing what they are doing
<snap-l> gah
<snap-l> Whew. MOved JoDee's dad into another room at this assisted living place.
<tjagoda> snap-l I love comcast ever since they gave me 50Mb for the price of 25
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-05
<rick_h_> ah the joys of packing
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wasn't too back since he was only moving from one room to another
<snap-l> but yeah, it was fun
<snap-l> Also, apparently I'm a "poopie-head" for asking JODee to indent 4 spaces.
<snap-l> in python
<jrwren> pep8 !!!!
<jrwren> i play style cop on reviews at work sometimes :)
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live: Live : Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=g6fszXBVWEE Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> afternoon
<gamerchick02> hi!
<gamerchick02> long time, no see.
<rick_h_> heh, I've been around :P
<gamerchick02> i haven't.
<gamerchick02> at least not IRC.
<gamerchick02> and yeah. i didn't realize that Penguicon was the same weekend as a friend's baby shower. the shower i said i'd go to way back in the summer.
<gamerchick02> i really really really wanted to go.
<tjagoda> Herro
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-28
<rick_h_> ok, getting sick of hearing these airport announcements
<cmaloney> So you'rthbe aiport waiting for your flight?
<rick_h_> yep, same place I've been since 1pm
<rick_h_> rotated seats, lots of bathroom trips
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> Fixing bookie bugs
<rick_h_> cmaloney: your delete bug should be fixed now
<cmaloney> Cool. Thank you. :)
<cmaloney> Though not at your airplane expense.
<Havenstance_> Just had a lady show up asking me to help her clean out her dead son's apartment tomorrow....
<cmaloney> Havenstance_: Sounds lovely. :(
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<brousch> Fine just fine
<cmaloney> Good deal.
<brousch> Kid got his first loose tooth yesterday, wouldn't let us pull it out, then swallowed it with his creal this morning
<brousch> I'm not sure how the tooth fairy handles this kind of thing. Does she work with the Dept of Sanitation?
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> I'm not sure, but you might want to check with the department of the doctor to see if there's anything you might need to do
<brousch> Nah, it's tiny
<cmaloney> http://ask.metafilter.com/39292/poopin-tooth-and-nail
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/UEKjkd - poopin' tooth and nail. - teeth digestivetract toothfairy | Ask MetaFilter
<brousch> Luckily my son doesn't seem worried about that
<cmaloney> Too bad I can't tell him that the tooth fairy won't come if the tooth isn't under the pillow
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> He hasn't made that realization yet. I'm sure he will pick up all kinds of ideas at school today
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> We'll make him write a note or something. He already asked how the TF knows a tooth is under the pillow
<brousch> Now I want to make a tooth fairy notifier. Tooth-shaped nightlight you turn on when there's a tooth, then turn off when the tooth has been swapped
<brousch> Marketed well, ever kid in America would need one
<mrgoodcat> ha that is a great idea
<mrgoodcat> i'd get one for my kid
<brousch> You would have to, because he would see it in a commercial and worry that without it the tooth fairy will never come
<mrgoodcat> ha
<mrgoodcat> that's how you'd market it?
<mrgoodcat> that's evil
<mrgoodcat> "hey kids, want the toothfairy to not forget about you?"
<brousch> Nah, I would make it all open source, but it's easy to see how to use it for evil
<brousch> I got to hang out with widox on Saturday. that was fun. And jrwren farted at me
<jrwren> pfff.. how does the toothfairy know?!?!   duh MAGIC!!!
<jrwren> brousch: did you go to bells?
<cmaloney> brousch:  That's awesome. Were you at the Kazooo thingie?
<brousch> jrwren: No. I saw how late it started and decided to go home to walk the dog and hang out with my kid before bedtime
<brousch> cmaloney: Yes
<brousch> The conference was good, but the speakers seemed like a clique
<brousch> The venue was really nice. Perfect for that event
<mrgoodcat> what was the venue?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Somewhere in Kazoo
<cmaloney> ;l
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> o
<mrgoodcat> was it on WMU campus?
<brousch> Fetzer Center
<mrgoodcat> ah yes that is nice
<cmaloney> Fetzer
<mrgoodcat> must have been in kirsch auditorium
<brousch> Whatever the lecture room in the Fetzer Center is called
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetzer
<mrgoodcat> there's a couple but thats the big one
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/y1K3wB - John Fetzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<mrgoodcat> >200 seats in kirsch
<cmaloney> Likely named after this dude, and not the rot-gut wine.
<mrgoodcat> only like 80 or 90 in putney
<mrgoodcat> and since you said lecture room i'm going to assume you mean the tiered seating not the banquet hall
 * mrgoodcat used to work at the fetzer center
<mrgoodcat> what event were you there for?
<brousch> The banquet hall was used for lunch
<brousch> mrgoodcat: KalamazooX
<mrgoodcat> oh that was this weekend?
<mrgoodcat> cool
<jrwren> the speakers did seem like a clique, but I know 1/2 of them, so I guess I'm "in"
<jrwren> at Bells everyone was approachable and talkable. Zach said I connected some things for him when discussing his talk, I found that pretty funny. I was just asking questions.
<cmaloney> I think I should use this Smart Mix: artist=Porcupine Tree more often
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - We All Need Some Light by Transatlantic on Stolt Morse Portnoy Trewavas
<greg-g> what black magic let's bookiebot know what cmaloney is playing? or is it a suggestion bot?
<greg-g> cmaloney: Porcupine Tree ftw!
<greg-g> cmaloney: I saw them at... ugh, what is that big old cool theater in Detroit, in 2011-ish
<greg-g> the theater near the ball field
<jrwren> filmore
<jrwren> used to be state theater
<jrwren> unless you mean the Fox
<jrwren> which is much nicer
<Havenstance> good packet capturing software? any recommendations? ubuntu os
<cmaloney> greg-g: .np [lastfm name]
<cmaloney> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Judge The Girl by The Pineapple Thief on Abducting The Unicorn [28 Apr 2014, 00:40]
<cmaloney> I think last.fm's compatability stuff is a bit borked
<cmaloney> I think there's more overlap with what I listen to and what mrgoodcat / greg-g listen to.
<greg-g> cmaloney: :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: I bet last.fm is not seeing the striking similarities in things like Porcupine Tree/Pineapple Thief (semi-obscure and thus really telling that they're similar) because of our other things like my jam bands and your metal.
<cmaloney> Likely
<cmaloney> That and I deleted my account around the same time that I was heavily in to Ozric Tentacles / Umphrey's McGee
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> I wonder if there's an algorithm that takes into account numbers of band members making up the new group
<cmaloney> ie: King Crimson is related to Zappa (Belew), Yes (Bruford), ELP (Greg Lake) and Porcupine Tree (Gavin)
<greg-g> given that last.fm was bought by clear channel however many years ago, I'm sure the intelligence of the algo hasn't improved :)
<cmaloney> I thought it was CBS?
<greg-g> same thing right?
<cmaloney> Since that's when I deleted my account
<cmaloney> iirc CBS isn't ClearChannel
<cmaloney> and if it is I'm totally deleting my account again.
<greg-g> nope, not the same (WP confirmation)
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS_Radio
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/tdciib - CBS Radio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> ", Clear Channel Media & Entertainment recorded more than $3.5 billion in revenues in as of 2005, $1 billion more than the number-two group owner, CBS Radio."
<cmaloney> Clear Channel needs to spend themselves blind
 * cmaloney hates Clear Channel
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: my more eclectic music isnt scribbled since it isn't on Google or spotify
<cmaloney> eclectic ==?
<mrgoodcat> Maybe that's the wrong word
<mrgoodcat> Less popular
<mrgoodcat> Esp. Live recordings and such
<mrgoodcat> CD player in my car doesn't scrobble
<cmaloney> Right. My phone doesn't scrobble either
<cmaloney> but my work machine does since it's using the Squeezebox
<greg-g> I should setup a remote squeezebox player thingy
<cmaloney> ssh tunnels FTW.
<cmaloney> greg-g: LMK if you want the script I use to set this up
<greg-g> yes please
<greg-g> I read your article a long time ago, but seeing the actual script would be good
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353731/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/ygs5Qu - Ubuntu Pastebin
<cmaloney> two scripts, proxy and run_squeezelite
<cmaloney> I use autossh because sometimes ssh goes south
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<cmaloney> The 8080 is just a proxy that I run to route my traffic home
<greg-g> what's the mac address for?
<cmaloney> Because I want WOWWay to be able to track everything from one easy convenient address.
<cmaloney> You need a different mac address for each playet
<cmaloney> player.
<cmaloney> So if I have one on my laptop that's one address
<cmaloney> and one for work
<cmaloney> etc. etc.
<cmaloney> Each address gets a different player profile
<cmaloney> so if you want one player to be low-bitrate you can use that mac address
<cmaloney> ie: my work player uses 160kbps
<greg-g> ahhh
<greg-g> interesting
<cmaloney> And if you want a player to not scrobble you can set that at the player level
<greg-g> right right
<cmaloney> for when you want to play your Barry White collection
<mrgoodcat> lol don't scrobble that
<greg-g> "We can see by the timings of 'Let's Get It On" by Barry White in Greg's scrobble history that his relationship with his wife is on the rocks lately."
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> data mining FTW
<greg-g> "Date mining FTW" ftfy
<cmaloney> hah
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: is there a bookie android client other than the one in the play store?
<greg-g> "Hey $Fried_of_greg, now is a good time to make moves on $partner_of_greg." The mix of last.fm and okcupid. :)
<mrgoodcat> fried?
<mrgoodcat> Balls.bust("greg-g")
<greg-g> whatever :P
<greg-g> in a meeting :)
<brousch> mrgoodcat: There is a Kivy-based one, but it's only available in my imagination
<mrgoodcat> Can your imagination export an apk for me?
<brousch> Not yet
<cmaloney> I wish my imagination had a compiler.
<brousch> It does. It is called "your body"
<cmaloney> my body makes shitty bytecode.
<mrgoodcat> my body makes shitty bytecFD3DCD ERR Segmentation fault
<brousch> Luckily it is an intelligent system. The more you use it, the better it gets
<greg-g> omg, this is insane: http://cabinporn.com/post/84139004370/mountaineers-hut-in-valais-switzerland
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/mR7aWl - Cabin Pornâ¢ â Mountaineerâs hut in Valais, Switzerland. ...
<mrgoodcat> why does cabinporn.com exist?
<greg-g> because of people like me
<greg-g> and rick_h_
<greg-g> also, it's the internet, the answer is always "because."
<brousch> That looks fun for 1 night
<mrgoodcat> if you helicopter in
<mrgoodcat> and out
<mrgoodcat> and have a snowmobile to get around
<greg-g> http://cabinporn.com/post/83536928947/a-magical-cabin-converted-from-a-watermill-by-a
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/4rVeDC - Cabin Pornâ¢ â A magical cabin converted from a watermill by a...
<mrgoodcat> past me is such a dick
<cmaloney> ?
<mrgoodcat> oh just some shit i didn't feel like doing last week
<mrgoodcat> that now i have to do
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know the feeling
<cmaloney> Present me doesn't like how past me wastes time.
<mrgoodcat> also my coworker is a tad upset that i rolled back his changes from last week
<mrgoodcat> but that was his own fault for not following the rules
<mrgoodcat> overriding builtin functions is a no-no
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's not nice.
<cmaloney> This isn't FORTH
<mrgoodcat> my coworker doesn't seem to get that this is MY codebase. he thinks it belongs to the company or something
<mrgoodcat> woah just googled FORTH
<mrgoodcat> what a dumb syntax
<mrgoodcat> 25 10 * 50 + .
<mrgoodcat> wat
<mrgoodcat> in my brain that's a syntax error. in forth it's basic arithmetic
<mrgoodcat>  i heard windows 9 is going to have a countdown timer in the bottom right to when it totally craps out
<mrgoodcat> windows 10 is going to come out a month before the timer finishes
<mrgoodcat> double price
<brousch> bah, there's been plenty of time to phase out XP. Anyone who hasn't is just lazy
<mrgoodcat> lol we don't have any xp left here
<greg-g> I'm being trolled in another channel:
<greg-g> 17:00 >>>  greg-f
<greg-g> 17:00 >>>  greg-g
<greg-g> 17:00 >>>  greg-h
<dzho> haha
 * dzho wonders if brousch was serious
<dzho> gone now, I guess.
<dzho> :|
<greg-g> I have a new goal in life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ-XFC5qzyM
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/rnyDKP - Beer Mile World Record: 4:57 by James Nielsen - YouTube
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-29
<widox> greg-g: hah
<widox> he's really done his homework
<widox> though, he didn't show his first beer was empty
<greg-g> widox: I know, has to re-do it :)
<greg-g> heh, 3 calls from this drive recovery place (ended up not doing it, way too costly for me) and all they wanted was my address to ship the drives back (I dropped them off myself).
<greg-g> With each call was simply an email 10 minutes later "Please call us at #number re Job#blah"
<greg-g> coulda just put that you needed my address in the email and I would have responded last week, ya know? :P
<cmaloney> greg-g: Spinrite
<cmaloney> lmk if you need a copy. But trust me, it's worth every penny
<jrwren> greg-i poor gou
<greg-g> cmaloney: going to try that on the logical failure drive, I actually brought them the hardware failure one (crashed head, turns out) to see how much that'd be since it didn't have logical failures, theoretically
<cmaloney> greg-g: try it on both
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: nice hat
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> not sure what is good about it.
<jrwren> err...
<jrwren> I mean...
<jrwren> Good Morning!
<mrgoodcat> good as compared to what?
<mrgoodcat> good must be relative to a baseline right?
<jrwren> always compared to yesterday
<mrgoodcat> i think i can accept that
<mrgoodcat> .np dyladan
<bookiebot> dyladan's current track - Return to Serenity by Testament on The Ritual
<cmaloney> Oh, Testament.
<cmaloney> I've been reading Everyday Zen, and it changed my perspective on "good morning". :)
<cmaloney> Every moment is good. :)
<mrgoodcat> everyday zen eh?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Piano Concerto No. 1: I. Allegro moderato by Fernando Lopes-GraÃ§a
<cmaloney> ^- Bookstock find.
<mrgoodcat> love the intro to the tron legacy album/soundtrack
<cmaloney> yeah, the Daft Punk soundtrack for Tron Legacy is so much better than the movie.
<cmaloney> That movie was disappointing.
<jrwren> Ev-re-day Zen, Ev-re-day Zen... that is a Bush song.
<cmaloney> Yes, and I really really didn't need to remember that
<cmaloney> That song needs to find the toilet it crawled out of and flush itself.
<brousch> Installing Visual Studio Express C# 2008 to work on some old autocad plugins
<brousch> I haven't touched this stuff in about 6 years
<mrgoodcat> oh wow
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i'm trying to imagine One sang by a female with a single acoustic guitar but for some reason I just can't. I keep hearing James
<mrgoodcat> the closest i can get is apocalyptica
<jrwren> i like to picture Tori Amos at the piano singing it.
<mrgoodcat> god i hate telemarketers
<mrgoodcat> "attention, this is not a sales call"
<mrgoodcat> just a golden opportunity to own a new vacuum
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: thanks :) cool time last night
<rick_h_> going to try to make cmaloney jealous by going to see penn and teller tonight
<mrgoodcat> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOxlazS3zs
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/rDykdN - "Linux Sucks" - 2014 - YouTube
<mrgoodcat> ah oops wrong window
<mrgoodcat> but that is still a good video
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You lucky bastard. :)
<cmaloney> I've seen them twice. Be sure to hang out in the lobby afterward. They do meet-and-greet with their fans.
<cmaloney> also: Teller is my height. :)
<cmaloney> You're in for a treat. Love love love Penn and Teller.
<jrwren> they are political nutters.
<cmaloney>  Penn is hardcore Libertarian
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> but I'm pretty sure Penn doesn't do anything by half.
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N5KyjM5v0c
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/eO5Naj - Harry Potter VS Star Wars - YouTube
<mrgoodcat> just got my new drive in for my laptop
<mrgoodcat> I didn't realize how tiny the drives for the chromebooks are
<brousch> mrgoodcat: The c710 is an interesting beast. It can take a standard 2.5" hard drive/SSD and the RAM is not soldered to the board, so you can upgrade to 16GB theoretically
<brousch> Too bad the CPU is a bit slow
<mrgoodcat> yea i was debating getting one
<mrgoodcat> CPU made me step up to 720
<brousch> The c720 CPUs make a big difference
<mrgoodcat> honestly, i'm not doing anything RAM intensive on an 11 inch laptop
<brousch> Could make for a cheap server
<mrgoodcat> and the hard drive that came in it stock is actually pretty quick
<mrgoodcat> i'm interested to see if the new one is as good
<mrgoodcat> chromeos boots in like 3 seconds though
<mrgoodcat> blew me away how good the battery life is too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-30
<shakes808> Hello everyone
<cmaloney> evening
<shakes808> I had a question about Ubuntu Server
<cmaloney> but you ate it? :)
<shakes808> I want to attempt to create a dev box for file sharing that windows and linux users can connect to to grab and modify files
<shakes808> Is Ubuntu Server bad?
<cmaloney> No, I think it'll do what you want
<cmaloney> though not 100% sure how to set this up for Windows
<shakes808> I just need to make sure that how I set it up, Windows users can grab the files.  I am planning to store .cpp .cs and other files on here with a GIT server or SVN server
<cmaloney> Shouldn't be a problem
<shakes808> alright
<cmaloney> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Samba
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/ZBSbkq - Samba - Community Help Wiki
<shakes808> Thank you
<shakes808> Is this what you two use?
<cmaloney> I don't have Windows machines on my network
<cmaloney> other than in a VM
<cmaloney> and that just uses the Virtualbox networking to the host machine
<shakes808> My buddy's who are going to be retrieving the files are going to be using Windows.  I just heard that with serving the files, Windows might not be able to read them
<cmaloney> I think that only comes into play with authentication
<shakes808> What about if I wanted to put music and videos on the server later on? Or should I have a different box for something like that/
<shakes808> ?
<cmaloney> but I don't have much experience with that so I don't know for certain
<cmaloney> bits are bits. :)
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> cool
<cmaloney> You might want to have a DLNA server
<cmaloney> but that's just adding something on top of the filesystem.
<shakes808> alright.  And last question, because it looks like server is only 64-bit ( http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server ) is there a 32-bit version?
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/i6gCiB - Download Ubuntu Server | Download | Ubuntu
<cmaloney> 12.04 has a 32 bit version
<cmaloney> not sure if 14.04 does
<cmaloney> Honestly there's little point to running 32bit
<cmaloney> unless you have older hardware.
<shakes808> Yeah, the computer that I am making my dev box is running 32-bit XP
<shakes808> alright, thank you for your insight
<cmaloney> np. have fun. :)
<shakes808> :) I will :)
<shakes808> You have a good one.
<shakes808> Tell people at work I say hello
<cmaloney> will do. :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<tony-smlr> .t
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<mrgoodcat> tired
<mrgoodcat> long night
<mrgoodcat> me and some friends made a light blink
<mrgoodcat> now we're trying to print a single character
<mrgoodcat> you'd be amazed how difficult it is to do the simplest stuff without the STL or any syscalls
<brousch> wat?
<cmaloney> What are you programming?
<mrgoodcat> trying to make our own kernel for the raspberry pi
<mrgoodcat> its hard
<mrgoodcat> but its fun
<mrgoodcat> never been so happy to see a blinking light
<brousch> geezumpete, why?
<mrgoodcat> learning
<mrgoodcat> no real other reason
<brousch> Ah, a noble reason
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That's awesome. :)
<jrwren> python, cffi or ctypes? go!
<mrgoodcat> ctypes
<mrgoodcat> i flipped a coin
<mrgoodcat> having just read up on what cffi is i think i'd rather cffi than ctypes
<mrgoodcat> what are you writing that you need the speed of c?
<mrgoodcat> although it is nice that ctypes is in the std libs
<jrwren> i gave up and decided ot plow through with cython
<jrwren> i have a cython lib already, I thought it would be tough to port, but turns out it is damn easy.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what are you working on?
<jrwren> old pyevent code
<cmaloney> Good news: We got the Ubuntu DVDRoms in time for the release party
<cmaloney> bad news: the box looks like it went through a war
<cmaloney> good news: most of the discs are undamaged, and the ones that took a hit just have bent corners
<brousch> Do you want the boxes of old DVDs I still have from you?
<mrgoodcat> awwwww yea
<jrwren> they still make DVDs ?
<jrwren> how 2000s of them.
<mrgoodcat> presumably
<mrgoodcat> some people don't have fast inets
<jrwren> this is america!
<jrwren> save the DVD for africa
<mrgoodcat> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/CbMGlq - Canonical Store
<greg-g> jrwren: America, ie: near the last in developed countries for home inet speed ;)
<mrgoodcat> i get 30 down
<mrgoodcat> i don't feel underdeveloped
<jrwren> i get 80-90 down :p
<greg-g> yeah, let's use well paid developers as the stick to measure america by :P
<mrgoodcat> :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Nope. :)
<cmaloney> Also reminder: CHC is early edition tonight
<mrgoodcat> oh yea...
<mrgoodcat> i might be late
<cmaloney> unacceptable
<mrgoodcat> inb4banhammer
<mrgoodcat> $gf has a job interview at 4th and main
<mrgoodcat> so we're gonna have dinner when she's done
<cmaloney> Oh, where at?
<mrgoodcat> uhhhh traffic i think the place is called?
<mrgoodcat> http://trafficdigitalagency.com/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/AgRRZC - Digital Marketing Agency | SEO, PPC, Web Design | Royal Oak | Traffic
<cmaloney> Ah, cool
<mrgoodcat> she's a web developer at ciesa in lansing right now, she wants to be a web developer in the detroit area though
<mrgoodcat> ciesa's website also breaks my soul every time i see it
<mrgoodcat> http://ciesadesign.com/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/bE3BCv - Ciesa Design | Branding, Communications and Engagement
<cmaloney> Enterprise-Level SEO Mastery
<mrgoodcat> either be 3d or don't
<cmaloney> I think I threw up in my mouth a bit
<mrgoodcat> you can't have impossible shapes like that
<mrgoodcat> it reminds me of the nissan cube
<mrgoodcat> and not in a good way
<mrgoodcat> if there even is a good way to remind someone of a nissan cube
<cmaloney> Did anyone have anything good to say about the Nissan Cube?
<mrgoodcat> it was the best selling car of all time in japan
<mrgoodcat> AutoPacific's Best in Class Vehicle Satisfaction Award
<cmaloney> "We took everything that people liked about Scion, ran it through a committeee meeting, took the results out back and pistol-whipped the offenders, polled some thinrd graders for their ideas about the ideal car, took those third graders out back and pistol whipped them as well, and then said "fuck it" and shat out the Nissan Cube".
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Reminder: Japan also is the birthplace of tentacle porn
<mrgoodcat> that's exactly what that website makes me think of
<cmaloney> Did not need to know that.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i hate impossible shapes on websites
<mrgoodcat> they make me hurt
<jrwren> setup.py makes me cry... again
<jrwren> i hate distutils so much
<cmaloney> jrwren: What's the problem now?
<mrgoodcat> til # by itself is a valid irc channel
<jrwren> cython+distutils => suckage
<jrwren> ultimately, its not adding -lmylib to the gcc link command
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Where does it go? The illuminati room?
<mrgoodcat> well in freenode it redirects to ##unavailable
<mrgoodcat> but in my other server it is just a channel
<cmaloney> jrwren: So it's not setup.py that's the problem but python and C libraries?
<jrwren> fuk if I know.
<jrwren> setup.py is just a convention, so is it setup.py that is the problem? no.
<mrgoodcat> http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/IfcDtz - Programming Sucks
<mrgoodcat> related
<jrwren> i mostly blame lack of cython docs, and yet, it looks like it is mostly wrappers around distutils and I /KNOW/ distutils docs suck
<jrwren> got it... stupid incorrect docs
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> hi cmaloney
<gamerchick02> how's things?
<cmaloney> Doing well so far. Working on my Penguicon presentation
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02>  i'm silently hoping that the Brazilians don't realize that i've not updated M1 configs all this week because i'm waiting on answers from product planning.
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> back on the mac!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-01
<greg-g> :(
<gamerchick02> why the sad face, greg-g?
<greg-g> mac
<cmaloney> Hearing bullshit in mixed languages is still bullshit
<cmaloney> ( mrgoodcat )
<gamerchick02> eh. there was nothing that was the size i wanted when i was looking so i got the air 11"
<gamerchick02> for the most part it works well. and when osx is not updated any more for it i will probably switch to an ubuntu variant.
<gamerchick02> if system 76 had an 11" laptop that was this thin i would have bought it in a heartbeat. alas, they do not.
<gamerchick02> nor do ZaReason.
<cmaloney> Yeah, the System76 laptops are a little chunky
<gamerchick02> chunky is a good word for it
<gamerchick02> i was looking at the Galago or Darter but still too big
<gamerchick02> i want small and portable
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Darter looks nice, but a little pricey
<gamerchick02> yeah. about the same as a low end air
<gamerchick02> macbook air i mean. not iPad
<cmaloney> Right, I knew the context. :)
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> though i suppose an iPad air with a keyboard would be a decent netbook replacement.
<gamerchick02> if not expensive.
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: get a c720 and put linux on it
<mrgoodcat> 200$
<gamerchick02> hehe. i already have the macbook so not right now. :)
<gamerchick02> i do have a chrome book but since my macbook got fixed and updated, i've not had a lot of use for it
<jrwren> now I'm singing "back on the mac" to the tune of back in black.
<Hitmanactual121> Evening everyone! so what's going on?
<mrgoodcat> not much
<mrgoodcat> playing around with some of my coding projects
<mrgoodcat> you?
<Hitmanactual121> excited, my buddy and me and planning on what talks to go to for this con we were thinking of going to
<mrgoodcat> what con?
<Hitmanactual121> penguicon! :)
<Hitmanactual121> seems pretty cool, anyone else going?
<cmaloney> Hitmanactual121: i'm planning on being there
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> indeed
<mrgoodcat> quite
<brousch> too tired today. I was up until midnight at the GRMakers Social
<mrgoodcat> i was real tired yesterday
<cmaloney> After noon
<mrgoodcat> and then some
<brousch> Is VB.NET a legitimate language still?
<waf> well, it's not being discontinued by MS or anything, but it's a PITA to use
<waf> so i suppose it depends on what your definition of 'legitimate' is
<jrwren> brousch: its still a thing, yes.
<brousch> All of the examples and tutorials for autocad's api are vb.net.
<brousch> My project would go much faster if I use it
<mrgoodcat> my project would go so slow no matter what the documentation. it would take me 2 weeks just to consent to vb.net
<brousch> I've been using VBA since 2000 :(
<mrgoodcat> ouch
<jrwren> VBA is a different beast
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-02
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> It was
<mrgoodcat> still is some would say
<jrwren> i'm on my first cup of coffee
<Hitmanactual121> Morning everyone!
<mrgoodcat> haven't seen rick_h_ in a couple days. must be busy in vegas
<Hitmanactual121> oh, Vegas is fun :) only went there once though
<mrgoodcat> rick is there for work
<mrgoodcat> although i'm sure he's probably having his fair share of fun too
<brousch> work is fun!
<rick_h_> today is pitch your 6mo plan to mark S day
<rick_h_> so yes...very freaking busy :)
<rick_h_> can't wait to get on the plane home
<greg-g> rick_h_: eek, 6 month plan? I am just getting the hang of quarterly plans :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh yea was up late last night moving boxes around
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> and trying to estimate a bunch of new projects is turning out to be not fun :)
<rick_h_> for three teams
<brousch> yeesh
<rick_h_> sorry, cranky today. A new hire backed out this morning after I spent all week planning on him being here the 12th
<rick_h_> like say...staing up until 1am planning his work starting the 12th
<greg-g> gah
<mrgoodcat> thats just aweful
<Hitmanactual121> :( that sucks rick\
<greg-g> This past halloween I stumbled across a site (tumblr I think) that was only 2 sentence long horror stories. It was great. This tweet just came across my feed and is also great.
<greg-g> https://twitter.com/RichardWiseman/status/462125179611910144
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/KwtTJM - Twitter / RichardWiseman: Oh v good .... RT ...
<greg-g> especially for the dads in the room
<mrgoodcat> that would be pretty terrifying
<mrgoodcat> .bmark admin
<bookiebot> http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks - Programming Sucks
<mrgoodcat> ^^ hilarious
<mrgoodcat> are there any ruby guys here at all?
<brousch> mrgoodcat: We converted them all
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> well i made a gem for bookie
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/dyladan/bookie-ruby
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/1Jp66x - dyladan/bookie-ruby Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> the command line client for it works but you need a .bookierc file in your homedir
<mrgoodcat> in the format of the one in the repo
<brousch> So now there is java and ruby for bookie
<brousch> rick_h_ is going to cry himself to sleep tonight
<mrgoodcat> Lol
<mrgoodcat> Mostly I wanted a command line client for searching for bookmarks
<mrgoodcat> I know there already is a CLI but that's for admin mostly
<mrgoodcat> I wanted a more user based onr
<brousch> But why ruby?
<brousch> If you wanted to use an obscure, hard to read language, why not perl?
<mrgoodcat> Ruby is neither obscure nor hard to read
<mrgoodcat> And Perl sux
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-03
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: will be too busy gambling to cry
<mrgoodcat> maybe drink himself to sleep
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: would love to add search/etc to the python cli now
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: just not needed it yet
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: I'll work on the python module tomorrow
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: all good
<rick_h_> do what works for you
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> wooo, heading home
<rick_h_> oh right, everyone is at penguicon
<rick_h_> hope that's going well
<cmaloney> oing well
<cmaloney> hope the flight is uneventful
<mrgoodcat> internet on the plane?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-04
<rick_h_> didn't use the net on the plane
<rick_h_> and flight is :( now that I realize I left my N10 on the plane
<greg-g> rick_h_: crap!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh no
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> still at the con?
<cmaloney> Yep. Have a presentation at 10am
<rick_h_> woot!
<cmaloney> Working on slides. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: Get your n10 back?
<rick_h_> brousch: filed a lost item report
<rick_h_> I'm telling myself that because I realized it within 2hrs of the flight and I had it sitting out on the seat I have a good chance
<rick_h_> brousch: but not holding out hope
<brousch> That is a bummer
<rick_h_> I'd more prefer that they release an updated N10 anyway but oh well
<brousch> Still all i hear are rumors
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> well I even got thinking a play edition tablet might be cool
<brousch> "It's going to be an N9!" "Google is killing off the Nexus program!"
<rick_h_> but the only one is the LG and it's only 16GB which is too small for movies for long flights and trips
<cmaloney> bbiab
<tony-smlr> SMLR E 125 - Penguicon - Video: http://youtu.be/-Ayh5a5vcEg Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/CPuC5a - SMLR Episode 125 - Penguicon - YouTube
<tony-smlr> we are live at Penguicon and Chatting at #smlr
<cmaloney> GTD PResentation in Mont Calm room at Penguicon
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/glTOTj - application/ogg
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> presentation go well?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i'm not sure what is causing the problems with the GET params but my fix doesn't appear to have actually fixed it. I'd be happy to continue to help diagnose the issue if you'd like
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I appreciate all the investigation. I'm not caught up yet
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I'll try to get some time to go through it myself and look. There definitely seems to be something there
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, it went pretty well
<rick_h_> cmaloney: remind me at CHC your bill of rights things are in my notebook
<cmaloney> Ah cool. Thank you.
<mrgoodcat> apparently cmaloney is nicolas cage
<mrgoodcat> er was that the constitution
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: assumption: I know what you're talking about
<mrgoodcat> lol national treasure
<mrgoodcat> nicolas cage steals the declaration of independence or constitution or something
<mrgoodcat> it has a map on it in invisible ink
<cmaloney> Yes, that was an excerable movie.
<mrgoodcat> haha I concur
<cmaloney> BTW: We have our monthly meeting tonight
<cmaloney> 9pm
<tjagoda> Our monthly meetings conflict with Game of Thrones?
<tjagoda> Mother of god
<cmaloney> Apparently.
<cmaloney> Before it was anathema to conflict with The Simpsons. :)
<cmaloney> Since the Simpsons predates God, I think we made the right call
<tjagoda> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-27
<rick_h_> morn and all that
<_stink_> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: How went Penguicon?
<cmaloney> brousch: Went well. Managed to crash on Sunday when we got home though
<cmaloney> Took today off to regroup.
<brousch> Now that's a party!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Had already planned on taking today off. Going to do my weekly review / get groceries, etc.
<jrwren> sponge!
<jrwren> Say a prayer for me.
<cmaloney> Rawting Pinaaata
<Sponge> yeah? why whats up?
<brousch> May your sponge be always soft but never slimy
<jrwren> i haven't heard sponge since I accidentally went to a show they were playing at.
<Sponge> lol
<Sponge> oh
<cmaloney> jrwren: How does one accidentally attend a concet?
<cmaloney> ?
<Sponge> yeah I went to one but I had to leave early
<jrwren> cmaloney: i don't recall the scenario. We were supposed to be at that venue for something else and we showed up and sponge was playing.
<jrwren> or I do recall the scenario, because that was it. I don't recall the specifics.
<cmaloney> I do like Sponge though. Knew one of the member's brothers.
<Sponge> where at?
<cmaloney> Seemed like one of those families where the kids are all handsome and talented.
<jrwren> Emerald Ballroom
<jrwren> I think It was halloween.
<_stink_> cmaloney: psh, i waited and waited at meijer for you yesterday.  *now* i find out you're going today.
<Sponge> lol
<cmaloney> _stink_: I thought you got the memo.
<jrwren> pygame at my local library! http://www.aadl.org/node/312135
<brousch> Nice!
<cmaloney> w00t
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-28
<ColonelPanic001> hi.
<brousch> ih
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> morn and all that.
<greg-g> yeeeeep
<rick_h_> that good eh?
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> i require moar coffee
<cscheib> I just made some.  I can't wait until I get a decent bag of beans again
<cscheib> this stuff I got from Holiday is kinda crap
<jrwren> :(
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Still feeling out of sorts from Penguicon.
<cmaloney> Went to bed early last night because I was shivering
<cmaloney> hands were cold
<brousch> Conplague?
<cmaloney> Likely.
<brousch> STD from a Furry?
<cmaloney> Feeling a little bit better.
<cmaloney> brousch: You should come to Penguicon some year. I think you'd have fun
<cmaloney> We'll set you up with some ribbons. :)
<brousch> Probably
<cscheib> does Tron guy still show?
<cmaloney> I saw him this weekend
<cscheib> ESR?
<brousch> One of our makerspace guys met him at the 3D printed hand booth
<brousch> Tron Guy, not ESR
<cmaloney> ESR was there.
<cscheib> I remember ESR being super into the fake sword fighting.  much entertains.
<cscheib> I think that was the 2nd pcon
<_stink_> ... what does one do with a 3D printed hand
<brousch> give it to kids who only have half a hand
<greg-g> _stink_: oh poor virgin mind you have
<_stink_> yes i stay away from the dark corners
<brousch> http://enablingthefuture.org/
<jrwren> "its called a stranger."
<_stink_> brousch: ah cool
<cscheib> jrwren: lulz
<rick_h_> cmaloney: how was the old penguin-fest?
<cmaloney> It was pretty good
<cmaloney> Managed to exhaust myself pretty hard.
<cmaloney> Apparently I'm not as young as I used to be. :)
<cmaloney> funny that.
<jrwren> partying is like any other skill. You have to practice to stay good at it.
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> true dat.
<cmaloney> I wasn't even partying hard.
<jrwren> cmaloney: well that is your first mistake. Andrew WK says when its time to party we must party hard.
<cmaloney> Considering they had shorts of Makers Mark for $11 each I wasn't about to party that hard.
<cmaloney> and no, $3 Miller Lite beer will never touch these lips.
<cmaloney> Even $.50 Miller Lite
<jrwren> cmaloney: and now I can't continue joking about partying hard because you've got to a point I care about: having standards.
<cmaloney> heh
<cscheib> remember the good old days when you'd drink just about any old crap?
<jrwren> kinda
<jrwren> but I honestly never liked cheap liquor very much.
<jrwren> nor the really cheap beer.
<jrwren> so I've always had some kind of standards... they've just edged higher and higher.
<jrwren> to the point I visit Germany and I complain about the beer :]
<cmaloney> me either
<cscheib> yea, I had a co-op job when I was underage, and a real job when I came of age, so my alcohol standards were higher than most
<cscheib> jrwren: Tippins market is doing a bourbon-barrel aged cofee bean in collaboration with Milan coffee works
<jrwren> i don't know if I would like that, but I guess I'd want to try it.
<cscheib> I'm certainly interested in trying it
<cscheib> appears to be a somewhat popular method of adding a bit more character to coffee beans before roasting em
<brousch> More sanitary than running them through a cat's digestive system
<cscheib> heh
<greg-g> brousch: elephants man, elephant poop beans are the thing
<cmaloney> http://www.cultofmac.com/320924/key-apple-watch-features-may-not-work-for-users-with-tattoos/
<rick_h_> not enough full sleeve wearing devs in the apple campus
<rick_h_> time to call out for more diversity into the inked community!
<cmaloney> Sadly I wonder what happens if you wear it while not being lilly-white
<cmaloney> Because that would a rather uncomfortable spot to be in.
<greg-g> jrwren: thanks for https://t.co/akqBpLjPZ9
<greg-g> gah, stupid t.co links :(
<jrwren> you are welcome!
<jrwren> greg-g: so... it turned into like 30min of watching classic music videos
<jrwren> because after that we just HAD to compare it to the George Harrison song.
<jrwren> and then we let youtube roll, next was Paul Simon
<jrwren> then Ahha take on me, then Survivor, then Europe
<jrwren> and after Final Countdown I had to put on the Laibach version, which has a surprisingly good computer animation from 1994 as the video which I'd never seen.
<jrwren> Then for some reason I decided to listen to Hall and Oats and have now moved on to MeatLoaf
<jrwren> Life is good.
<brousch> jrwren: I'm drinking with Brian genisio
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-29
<cmaloney> WElcome to Youtube loops.
<jrwren> brousch: !!! Tell him I said hi, and that I wish I were there.
<jrwren> brousch: what is the occasion?
<jrwren> cmaloney: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-bring-laibach-back-to-america
<cmaloney> jrwren: I find this doubtful
<jrwren> cmaloney: don't make me cry
<jrwren> cmaloney: i wish I was rich, I'd do the $10k thing
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> jrwren: He came to GR to talk about Javascript robotics. The group went out afterwards
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Get to head to the docs later on to have my throat checked out
<cmaloney> Not sure my tonsils should be this size.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> penguicon-flu!
<cmaloney> Yeah, fun fun
<cmaloney> hoping it isn't strep
 * rick_h_ sends popsicles your way
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Penguebola
<jrwren> oh no!
<jrwren> at the first sign of scratchy throat, I always gargle with saltwater and or H2O2
<jrwren> I have holes in my tonsils from so much strep when I was young :(
<_stink_> brousch++
<brousch> http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/29/microsoft-shocks-the-world-with-visual-studio-code-a-free-code-editor-for-os-x-linux-and-windows/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-30
<cmaloney> Is anyone at CHC?
<cmaloney> Staying home on account of trying not to infect everyone should I have something nasty.
<rick_h_> home here
<cmaloney> same
<cscheib> CHC?
<cmaloney> Coffee House Coders
<cscheib> ahhh
<cmaloney> Usually meet on Wed. from 8-10 (7-10 last Wed of the month)
<cscheib> I do like coffee, but I dislike coding
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-01
<cmaloney> evening
<dzho> morning
<dzho> and so passeth another day, and dog looked upon it, and said "huh.  that was ok."
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> RIP grooveshark.
<cmaloney> jrwren: G+ says it's you're birthday. PLease confirm
<cmaloney> _stink_: rly?
<cmaloney> "We made very serious mistakes," said the statement. "We failed to secure licences from rights holders for the vast amount of music on the service.
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> I don't give that detail to google. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32547376
<cmaloney> That's what I figured.
<jrwren> high five!
<cmaloney> I know my paranoid peeps
<cmaloney> Well, happy "I DO NOT USE THIS ACCOUNT" birthday to your alter-ego. :)
<jrwren> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-02
<cmaloney> ebening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> and good morning good people
<cmaloney> and morning bad people
<cmaloney> reminder we'll be meeting tomorrow at 9pm as is the custom
<cmaloney> more details in a note that is yet to be written
<cmaloney> hope to see you there!
<brousch> Any east sider feel an earthquake?
<cscheib> that was just yo momma
<brousch> Getting confirmations from people in kalamazoo and north of grand rapids
<cscheib> USGS doesn't say anything about one yet
<cscheib> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/
<brousch> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us20002avh#general_map
<cscheib> aha, that hadn't been posted yet
<brousch> The earthquake was very close to Climax, MI. Coincidence?
<cmaloney> not I
<Sponge> wait.. there was!?
<Sponge> I thought I felt something move the couch
<Sponge> light tremor but enough to shake it..
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-03
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Reminder: Meeting tonight.
<gamerchick02> hey rick_h_ just wanted you to know that xubuntu works like a charm on the XPS13
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-02
<cmaloney> Ugh, slept through meeting. :)
<cmaloney> Brief recap: Ubuntu Release Party was awesome; Ubuntu Online Summit is this week.
<cmaloney> Zzzzz
<rick_h_> yay
<rick_h_> and such
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-03
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> i may have found a coder for the coffee house
<cmaloney> ?
<mrgoodcat> the guy that just joined
<mrgoodcat> obscurehero: are you chase?
<obscurehero> wow gotta dox me eh
<mrgoodcat> he went to school with me for the past year and is just getting stared in a coding career
<mrgoodcat> eh sorry lol
<obscurehero> lol
<obscurehero> I'll forgive you this once
<cmaloney> Ah, cool
<cmaloney> I'm Craig
<obscurehero> hey
<mrgoodcat> afaik cmaloney is the person that goes to CHC most often
<obscurehero> neat!
<cmaloney> Nowadays, yes
<obscurehero> do you even ubuntu mrgoodcat?
<obscurehero> I guess you didn't judge me, that was mostly Tom
<mrgoodcat> yea just not on my laptop
<mrgoodcat> my DO droplets are all ubuntu
<obscurehero> i think my bouncer server is ubuntu... or debian
<obscurehero> ah, gotcha.
<obscurehero> my newest vps is centos
<cmaloney> https://goo.gl/photos/2yvLtY3V759W91VWA <- This is what my laptop looks like
<obscurehero> figured I'd try to learn SELinux... it's ... going...
<cmaloney> so if you see someone with that laptop that's likely me
<cmaloney> or someone has stolen my laptop
<mrgoodcat> is that just a screensaver or is that real?
<obscurehero> haha sweet
<cmaloney> That's an emulator on a RPi
<obscurehero> well, I just assume they're you. So hopefully their impersonation game is strong
<cmaloney> when I was playing with Zeus Assembler on the Sinclair ZX Spectrum emulator
<obscurehero> mrgoodcat, did you see that whole article (and code) that guy wrote about disassembling ssh?
<obscurehero> reminded me of your evening pursuits
<obscurehero> https://karla.io/2016/04/30/ssh-for-fun-and-profit.html
<mrgoodcat> yea i read that? in what way did that remind you of me though?
<obscurehero> dammit... that reminds me... I"m not one of the cool kids until I have a .io
<obscurehero> oh, that you'd do that
<mrgoodcat> a noble waste of time
<obscurehero> 1. assume it was easier than it was 2. spend forever
<obscurehero> haha, definitely
<obscurehero> super interesting IMHO
<obscurehero> so I haven' tattached to my bouncer in ages...
<obscurehero> forgot how many pointless channels I'm a part of on freenode
<mrgoodcat> this is my computer these days https://vorte.xyz/index.php/s/akRIXAwlFxZYyok
<obscurehero> look at you! owncloud chugging a long
<mrgoodcat> yea i set it up yesterday
<mrgoodcat> i'm gonna spend some time making a custom theme for it this weekend i think
<obscurehero> ah, nice. I've always been tempted to do owncloud but I'd only do it if I have better home internet and more server hardware
<obscurehero> don't have enough storage at home rn
<mrgoodcat> digital ocean
<obscurehero> is that competitive with drive or dropbox?
<obscurehero> I can't imagine it would be
<mrgoodcat> obscurehero: you mean on space?
<mrgoodcat> no
<obscurehero> right
<mrgoodcat> summer 2016 DO is introducing block storage though
<mrgoodcat> https://www.digitalocean.com/features/storage/
<cmaloney> Dammit, now Ubuntu Discourse is getting sunset.
<cmaloney> jcastro: WTF!
<cmaloney> Now nothing can stop the Ubuntu Forums
<jcastro> lol
<jrwren> no one really used it.
<jrwren> reddit took that roll.
<cmaloney> That's not the point
<jrwren> what is teh point?
<cmaloney> teh point is...
<cmaloney> Ubuntu Forums still exist
<mrgoodcat> phpbb is unstoppable now
<obscurehero> but it's so ugly
<cmaloney> Worse, it's not phpbb
<cmaloney> It's V Forum or whatever
<obscurehero> vanilla looked promising back in the day
<cmaloney> Might as well be /dev/null
<obscurehero> what's the latest hot forum software these days
<cmaloney> Discourse
<obscurehero> oh, right
<obscurehero> I was paying attention, I promise
<cmaloney> vBulletin
<cmaloney> no worries
<mrgoodcat> i never got to use discourse really
<mrgoodcat> no community i frequent ever got going on it
<cmaloney> I don't like forum software as a rule
<obscurehero> I tried it for one community I was marginally part of ... didn't really like it a lot
<cmaloney> Used to frequent the SJgames forum
<obscurehero> best forum software I used regularly was xenforo
<cmaloney> but it's a real pita to keep up with
<cmaloney> The real annoying one is Amibay
<cmaloney> Auctions using forums
<cmaloney> And yes it sucks as much as you might imagine
<obscurehero> haha
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-04
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> new despecialized starwars http://picsurge.com/g/cCwnAo
<mrgoodcat> may the fourth be with you
<rick_h_> morn
<jcastro> rick_h_: welcome back!
<rick_h_> jcastro: woot!
<jcastro> are you in texas?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, sprint time baby!
<obscurehero> o7
<mrgoodcat> 08 ?
<mrgoodcat> hi
<obscurehero> lol it's a dude
<obscurehero> saluting
<obscurehero> o/ is the other way but that seems a bit too... muc
<obscurehero> s/muc/much/
<mrgoodcat> i see it now
<cmaloney> Yay sprints!
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/cops-to-public-stop-calling-alleged-drug-dealers-phone-we-need-to-search-it/
<gamerchick02> haha LOL
<gamerchick02> that's great
<mrgoodcat> oh man thats awesome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-05
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://circleofdust.bandcamp.com/album/circle-of-dust-remastered-deluxe-edition
<jrwren> cmaloney: anygood?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've had two versions of this album
<cmaloney> this version is quite good
<cmaloney> thinking about picking it up
<cmaloney> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3135657
<cmaloney> Apparently the Windows Store is open, even when you tell it to bugger off
<jrwren> Windows 10 is just terrible. I'm pretty sorry I upgraded from 7 to it.
<jrwren> Windows and OSX are getting so bad that I'm pretty sure I'll be all linux within 5 years.
<cmaloney> yay!
<cmaloney> OSX needs Jobs
<cmaloney> I like Tim Cook but they've really lost the plot
<cmaloney> even the faithful I listen to seem to have wavered
<jrwren> I think the things that annoy me about OSX happened under Jobs.
<cmaloney> Which things?
<jrwren> getting rid of Samba for their own, poor, smb client and retiring the quicktime library are key.
<jrwren> did you know that with the move from QuickTime to CoreVideo, OSX has no codec plugin mechanism?!?
<jrwren> its like going back to 1994
<cmaloney> No, I didn't.
<cmaloney> So there's no easy way to implement codecs under OSX?
<jrwren> not AFAICT
<jrwren> You can use VLC. You can use MPV (an mplayer gui).  But those use their entire own stacks. Not the system video rendering stack.
<cmaloney> Meh, that doesn't surprise me
<cmaloney> VLC / mplayer tend to bring their own stack anyway
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> but its sooo bad.
<cmaloney> Honestly Quicktime was due for a curb-kicking
<jrwren> Finder's QuickLook feature is so damn good, I want it for other gui filemanagers, but they are crippling the video player of QuickLook because of the codec limits
 * jrwren points to "never rewrite" as a value.
<jrwren> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html  ;]
<cmaloney> Something tells me part of the reason for Quicktime getting sunned-down is security
<cmaloney> and that it doesn't work well under Quicktime
<cmaloney> iOS, rather
<cmaloney> for the same reasons that Flash sucks
<jrwren> ios never had quicktime afaik.  it always had (and still has) very limited codec support.
<jrwren> in teh case of both windows and osx, the regression to the limitations of a handheld device is part of my gripe.
<jrwren> windows at least has cortana.  why in the world doesn't osx have siri? its nonsensical.
<jrwren> I feel like there was a brief period where windows and osx were not free, but were open enough to be useful and stable enough to be useful, and that period is closing quickly. Maybe already closed.
<cmaloney> Not sure. Siri under OSX would be kind of sweet
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Apple is under so much pressure to make money
<cmaloney> and I'm sure Microsoft is making stupid decisions for revenue
<jrwren> sure, NOW they are, but they could have added siri to OSX at any time when they were in the money hurricane.
<jrwren> i'm amazed MSFT still has its high revenue. They have done a great job pivoting to azure.
<jrwren> I wonder how much they paid for Xamarin. I can't imagine it was cheap.
<cmaloney> 3.50
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> I'll be surprised if Miguel will still work for Microsoft in a year
<jrwren> same here, but his handcufs in the contract may be more like 3 years.
<jrwren> same with Nat.
<jrwren> I'm more interested in what they do next.
<jrwren> but tehn again, they both stayed at Novel for a rather long time and novel wasn't giving them much in the way of resources, so who knows.
<jrwren> They might be there for 10 yrs.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<mrgoodcat> i'm back
<cmaloney> Welcome back
<mrgoodcat> A/C maintenance in the server room last night
<cmaloney> Where were you?
<cmaloney> Lovely.
<mrgoodcat> server downtime
<mrgoodcat> my nemesis
<cmaloney> mass hysteria
<mrgoodcat> srsly tho
<mrgoodcat> like 40 emails from people wondering what was going on
<mrgoodcat> this has been planned for months
<jrwren> someone communicated the plan poorly
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> its not my problem
<mrgoodcat> i'm just an alumni now
<mrgoodcat> actually alumnus is the singular, and idk if i can call myself that
<mrgoodcat> having never graduated
<mrgoodcat> but w/e
<mrgoodcat> this is a wmu computer club server not a work server
<jrwren> whoa, that takes me back.
<mrgoodcat> to what?
<mrgoodcat> did you go to wmu?
<jrwren> no, but I knew some people there 15-20yrs ago
<mrgoodcat> ah
<jrwren> good LUG IIRC
<mrgoodcat> some people that were there 15-20 years ago are actually still here
<mrgoodcat> we have a lot of alumni members
<jrwren> yeah, I could see Wes still being involved, maybe.
<mrgoodcat> any idea what his handle would be?
<mrgoodcat> idk real names for some people
<mrgoodcat> haha
<jrwren> no idea.
<mrgoodcat> don weber was a member 30 ish years ago probably
<mrgoodcat> now he's the technology directory for the college of arts and sciences here
<mrgoodcat> director
<mrgoodcat> not directory
<jrwren> wow, he's seen a lot.
<mrgoodcat> he was one of the super early members
<mrgoodcat> my irc logs only go back to 2005-11-04 05:44:33 so i can't verify people i don't know that are older than that
<cmaloney> Yow.
<mrgoodcat> yea its quite a history
<mrgoodcat> as of right now i have 6400093 lines of logs
<jrwren> you keep 'em uncompressed? I recently decided to compress old text irc logs. Some were rather large.
<jrwren> I really should point logrotate at them, but that requires more work ;]
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> postgres db
<mrgoodcat> i also have fairly extensive client txt logs
<jrwren> oh nice.
<jrwren> but then, that is even larger disk footprint ;]
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> space isn't such an issue
<mrgoodcat> 224M of text logs
<mrgoodcat> idk how much the pg db is taking up
<mrgoodcat> 6748234 lines of text logs from client logging
<mrgoodcat> i IRC a lot
<mrgoodcat> 167 logged channels
<jrwren> i was over GB in text log, hence my desire to compress.
<jrwren> that is lot of channels.
<mrgoodcat> 3167MB pg database
<mrgoodcat> including indexes and such
<mrgoodcat> exactly 0 seconds spent optimizing indexes and whatnot so don't judge
<mrgoodcat> we have various services for querying the logs so a DB makes sense for that
<cmaloney> never be ashamed for using a database
<cmaloney>  that's what they're there for
<jrwren> yeah, HUGE
<jrwren> and yes, what cmaloney said.
<jrwren> its classic time/space tradeoff.  my grep of xv compresses text is going to be insanely slower than your search of that pgsql database. especially if you tsearch.
<mrgoodcat> just looked. there is actually only 1 index and its on the autoincrement id column
<jrwren> oh, in that case, I'm faster :p
<mrgoodcat> haha
<jrwren> assuming I have the CPU to spare for xv decompress. and xv is SLOW. especially on this old E8500
<mrgoodcat> still have 2.5T of unused space so i'm not too worried about disk usage
<mrgoodcat> actually thats the home partition
<mrgoodcat> root partition only has 13G left
<mrgoodcat> still not worried though
<jrwren> wow, that is a lot of free space.
<mrgoodcat> 3.3T total
<mrgoodcat> so wev
<mrgoodcat> used almost 1
<mrgoodcat> damn hands and the typing
<jrwren> one of the reasons space became a concern for me is that I moved my homedir to SSD, so smaller ;]
<mrgoodcat> our homedir is shared with a pretty large number of accounts
<jrwren> oh, this is my home server
<mrgoodcat> ls -l /home/members | wc -l
<mrgoodcat> 237
<mrgoodcat> so that is active members since we migrated from the old server which was.... 2 years ago?
<cmaloney> 237 users on a university server that isn't for a class?
<cmaloney> That's amazing.
<cmaloney> (esp. since it's no longer the 1990s)
<mrgoodcat> yea its a lot
<jrwren> what is the appeal these days?  free fast hosting?
<mrgoodcat> nerd cred
<mrgoodcat> mostly
<mrgoodcat> we use it to communicate using IRC
<mrgoodcat> most people have a tmux/screen session on the server at all times
<mrgoodcat> keeping in contact en masse
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> its cool. I'm more curious, because I think I gave up on that sort of thing in my life.
<jrwren> I actually do have such a shared host with a friend, but we barely use it.
<cmaloney> Likely Usenet access. ;)
<jrwren> lol!
<jrwren> does wmu provide that?
<jrwren> i thought universities stopped that a decade ago.
<mrgoodcat> they do not provide usenet access
<cmaloney> Then why are they on the internet?
<cmaloney> bah
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> haha
<jrwren> http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zv3eqlg8lq097tjlsbv02hnton7hkhmrc14kufoo?imm_mid=0e2ff2&cmp=em-na-na-na-pr_humble_hacking_bundle
<greg-g> people still like Slipknot?
<greg-g> (non sequitor, based on a huge patch on the back of this otherwise punk rock looking kid at the coffee shop)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> maybe its style-only, like all the people who wear ramones tshirts but don't actuall listen to the ramones
<greg-g> the girl he was with was definitely punk rock stylish
<cmaloney> greg-g: Slipknot is the Slayer for the Gen Y folks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-06
<cmaloney> fuck lawns
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> yours start growing again?
<cmaloney> unfortunately
<cmaloney> along with tjhe dandelions
<gamerchick02> they'll never stop growing
<gamerchick02> oh and humble bundle is having a sale again
<gamerchick02> i picked up the Thief pack and bit.trip runner 2
<mrgoodcat> i got the hacking book pack
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> cmaloney: LAWNS!!!  They are EVIL!
<cmaloney> Yes, they are.
<jrwren> its difficult for me not to feel guilty when my next door neighbor has the trugreen lawn of perfection and I have all weeds, but I keep reminding myself that I have diverse life in my lawn that i don't kill with poison.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> "I just have to remind myself that I'm not an asshole to nature"
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> its difficult to remember when you are surrounded by those with such different values.
<_stink_> on my street there are beautiful lawns like carpet, and there are mud pits
<jrwren> mud pits!
<_stink_> mine is the weedy, reel mower mown lawn, comfortably in the middle of the spectrum
<cmaloney> I was out last night with my push mower (Fiskars reel mower)
<cmaloney> http://www2.fiskars.com/Products/Gardening-and-Yard-Care/Reel-Mowers/StaySharp-Max-Reel-Mower
<_stink_> 9pm mowing
<_stink_> i love reel mowers
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> They're no fun when you haven't mowed for one and a half weeks though
<_stink_> haha
<mrgoodcat> i live in an apartment
<_stink_> true
<jrwren> very true.
<cmaloney> but went a setting higher and it was like a snowblower of lawn clippings
<jrwren> My yard is just big enough to make the push reel a great work out ;]
<cmaloney> jrwren: same
<cmaloney> two hours of work out for me last night
<jrwren> DAMN!
<cmaloney> but I really hate gas mowers
<jrwren> I get through in ~50min
<jrwren> and I have one of the biggest yards in Ann Arbor ;]
<cmaloney> jrwren: see above (1 1/2 weeks without mowing)
<jrwren> oh!, yup, that will do it, ESPECIALLY this time of year.
<cmaloney> We also have a deceptively large yard
<cmaloney> looks tiny but it has strips along the sides that get tall grass
<jrwren> Monday, I was hoping for it NOT to rain, just becauses I didn't want to wait another day to cut, because that would be another day of growth.
<cmaloney> and an awkward tree in the middle
<jrwren> i'm trying to systematically add garden islands so I have less grass, but those are work too.
<jrwren> Just different work, and my wife does a lot of that ;p
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I should convince JoDee that she likes yard work, but I have about as much chance of that happening as I do of the royal family calling me to let me know that I'm next in line on the throne.
<cmaloney> Not impossible, but highly unlikely
<jrwren> well, gardening != yard work.
<jrwren> growing vegetables is far more rewarding.
<cmaloney> Yeah, JoDee liked growing veggies
<cmaloney> and so did the squirrels
<jrwren> lol, damn squirrels.
<jrwren> I have a pellet gun on my wish list for varmit shooting.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-08
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's a sweet case you shared on G+
<cmaloney> Why am I not surprised that John McAffee is running for president under the Libertarian party?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-01
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning party party
<jrwren> good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> wheee
 * cmaloney cranks up the music
<cmaloney> http://music.lichkingmetal.com/album/the-omniclasm <- play along at home
<rick_h> hah, group music at it's irc finest
<jrwren> cmaloney: wow! this is VERY FAST
<brousch__> eh?
<cmaloney> jrwren: BTW:  Google is saying it's your birthday today
<cmaloney> is this true?
<cmaloney> jrwren: This is the sort of thrash that I love
<jrwren> its not true.
<jrwren> its lies I tell google so they don't know too much about me :p
<cmaloney> I didn't have it in my "official" birthday calendar so I figured it was rubbish
<cmaloney> This is also my "going to do errands" music: https://violblast.bandcamp.com/album/conflict
<jrwren> this is how I know I don't really like metal :p
<cmaloney> Eh, that style of metal. :)
<jrwren> right.
<cmaloney> https://sleepmakeswaves.bandcamp.com/album/in-today-already-walks-tomorrow-ep <- You might like this
<jrwren> cmaloney: doesnt sound like metal yet.
<cmaloney> It's "Post Rock"
<cmaloney> which is a branch of metal in my book
<jrwren> huh, ok.
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> https://pelicansl.bandcamp.com/album/forever-becoming <- another post-metal band and a great album (first track is unlike the rest of the album)
<brousch__> Ned Flanders Metal Band https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BEvh6HSQc0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-02
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> my phone warns me "rain possible at 11:15am" so I look out the window and...see rain
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Congrats!
<cmaloney> How's the power situation?
<rick_h> all good, just a couple of hours
<cmaloney> Ah, good to hear
<rick_h> by 9:30pm it was back
<rick_h> yea, not sure what was up but took out a few blocks around here it seems
<cmaloney> We're scheduled for a tree removal this morning. I'm starting to doubt they'll do it today
<rick_h> heh, it's what I'm listening to
<rick_h> a couple houses down has a whole crew doing tree work and they've got a grinder going full steam
<cmaloney> Wow
<rick_h> three trucks and looks like 6 folks ish
<cmaloney> they struck early over there. :)
<rick_h> yea, think they were going by 8am
<cmaloney> wheee
<rick_h> cmaloney: you helping do pyohio talk reviews?
<cmaloney> I'm signed up to do so but the interface is terrible.
<rick_h> ah, bummer
<cmaloney> I'll have a peek through it
<rick_h> I was thinking you'd be good to help do that
<rick_h> and then I could ask how the talks were doing coming in :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I can't tell if this is mobile first or what
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> rick_h: Voted for your talks for PyOhio
<rick_h> cmaloney: hah, inside person :P
<rick_h> cmaloney: how's it looking? Getting some good submissions?
<cmaloney> Yeah, some pretty good ones
<rick_h> nice
<brousch__> Is the talk: Why Go is Eating Python's Lunch?
 * jrwren_ vomits
<brousch__> Misson Accomplished
<jrwren_> any time go eats python's lunch its because someone didn't know how to make a pypy venv and keep calm and python on.
<jrwren_> that said, i've been liking go a little bit more recently :)
<brousch__> Is PyPy stable? Like would you leave it running out there for years?
<cmaloney> Is anything stable?
<jrwren_> yes.
<jrwren_> yes to both questions. :)
<jrwren_> is stability good?
<brousch__> I haven't really looked at it in many years
<shakes808> :( I forgot about Penguicon this past weekend.  How was it?
<jrwren_> isn't stability by definition anti-agility?
<jrwren_> American Heritage defines stable as "Resistant to change of position or condition"
<brousch__> Well we have servers that sit out there for literally years
<jrwren_> isn't that BAD for modern fast moving software?
<jrwren_> I say yes.
<jrwren_> Stability is bad.
<jrwren_> brousch__: literal years servers is a different problem that may or may not be a problem :)
<cmaloney> There. I have reviewed all of the talks. :)
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/68rn42/crate_named_nul_broke_rusts_package_manager/ <- Gotta love Windows
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-03
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/jiP8D5
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<shakes808> this one has a little more information on who will be the guests on the album
<shakes808> https://goo.gl/kw3Euv
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I'm making a hard pass on that album
 * cmaloney is not a fan of country
<jrwren> i threw on some bluegrass recently and my daughter says, "you like country?" in surprise.
<shakes808> cmaloney: it is metal version of country songs :)   So really you will be listening to metal
<shakes808> jrwren: have you listened to Bella Fleck and the Flecktones?
<shakes808> Bassists is Victor Wooten, pretty good.
<shakes808> try the song - Sinister Minister
<jrwren> shakes808: yes.
<jrwren> shakes808: also, bella fleck is guest player on MANY albums.
<shakes808> seen them at Bonnaroo and they were pretty good
<jrwren> Bella is one of the greats.
<shakes808> His banjo playing is pretty good :)
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> he tours with Sam Bush and appears on his album, IIRC
<shakes808> cool
<jrwren> its possible Bela was the bjano player in Lyle Lovett's large band when I saw them 17yrs ago :)
<shakes808> haha, nice.
<jrwren> really great show and NIckel Creek opened for them. That was my introduction to Nickel Creek. Their first album had not been out for very long
<shakes808> can't go wrong with a little banjo and mandolin :)
<shakes808> haven't heard of Nickel Creek
<shakes808> I will check them out
<jrwren> or well, now that i see their wikipedia page i'm reminded of their albums as children.
<jrwren> but their first major album hadn't been out long :)
<jrwren> oh man, you are in for a treat, especially if you like fusion.
<cmaloney> I'm familiar with Bela Fleck
<jrwren> The first Nickel Creek album is straight up youths playing classic bluegrass, but each album moves a little further from that.
<shakes808> jrwren: love fusion :)
<cmaloney> He's one of the few bluegrass / banjo artists I can tolerate for an entire album.
<shakes808> cmaloney: HAHA
<jrwren> The last album always had me thinking I was listening something in the style of Radiohead, but with bluegrass instruments. I love it, and I don't like radiohead.
<jrwren> oh sheesh, i should have read their wikipedia page. NOW I find out that one of "their" songs I know is actually a pavement cover. lol
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s46esj5193z7l34/Screenshot%20from%202017-05-03%2009%3A16%3A54.png?dl=0 <- Bela Fleck albums I have
<jrwren> Tales From the Accoustic Planet is classic
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's an awesome album
<shakes808> yeah, that is the one that I have
<shakes808> what about widespread panic?
<shakes808> not bluegrass but mountain / jam band -esk
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/33625453033/ <- rick_h You have some esplainin' to do
<rick_h> cmaloney: hah well more photography and doing some video editing means on the mac.
<cmaloney> tut tut
<greg-g> obligatory photo of the keyboard being DSC_00001 :)
<rick_h> https://youtu.be/Uq-ctcAgV5w
<cmaloney> rick_h: Nice!
<rick_h> greg-g: lol yea
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-04
<rick_h> mornings and such
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<jrwren> progressing too quickly.
<jrwren> Good morning.
<jrwren> How is your day cmaloney?
<rick_h> well I did a bunch of stuff writing out May 3, then saw twitter and the "may the fourth" and so now I feel like it's a new day
<cmaloney> so far so good
<cmaloney> rick_h: ++
<shakes808> cmaloney: are you still looking for work?
<cmaloney> shakes808: I am
<shakes808> i came across this last night: https://remoteok.io/
<cmaloney> Neat. Thanks
<shakes808> maybe you can find something there?
<shakes808> no problem
<shakes808> if you scroll down a little bit there is a python job
<shakes808> Scrapinghub
<shakes808> https://remoteok.io/remote-companies/scrapinghub
<cmaloney> Yah, that popped up on Stack Overflow jobs as well
<shakes808> gotcha.  good luck hunting... still :{
<cmaloney> No worries.
<cmaloney> They always need cart pullers at Meijer.
<cmaloney> :/
<shakes808> HAHA, lets try to get you to at least a Greeter ;)
<cmaloney> Fuck that. People are terrible
<shakes808> haha, and you think Meijer is at all better?  I know some people that worked there and they say they treat the people like shit.   i know you are kidding ( half way ) about working there.
<jrwren> i want to be greeter at meijer. I love people.
<jrwren> but not for 20 more yrs. That is my retirement job. preferably at the petoskey, mi meijer location :)
<shakes808> jrwren: knock yourself out.   no literally!  that would yield better results ;)
<shakes808> what is up in petoskey?
<jrwren> i just like it there.
<jrwren> its beautiful in the summer.
<cmaloney> shakes808: I worked for Meijer during college
<shakes808> gotcha.  should look out west, Alaska or Colorado :)
<rick_h> jrwren: a fine dream :)
<cmaloney> I'm sure it's different now, but back then it was a decent job
<cmaloney> save for the bottle return, which was rubbish. Literally.
<jrwren> rick_h: the dream of 20 more yrs of work?  yes, very fine. :P
<cmaloney> Had one guy come up with a bag of garbage and cans that almost made me want to puke
<cmaloney> told my manager and we gave it back to the customer.
<rick_h> jrwren: I mean off to petosky and a job that forces you to talk to people so you're not making up reasons to go to the dr for human interaction
<jrwren> hahahahahaha
<rick_h> jrwren: thus...a fine dream :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-05
<shakes808> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/free-aiy-projects-voice-kit-magpi-57/
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> Morning
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> How is the day so far?
<rick_h> zzzz
 * shakes808 wants to go back to bed
<cmaloney> I can understand that
<shakes808> has anyone come across MySQL error code 126: Incorrect key file for table... try to repair it
<shakes808> i ran mysqlcheck on it and it comes back with a table with :: warning: found row where auto_increment column has the value 0 :: status: ok
<shakes808> i ran the mysqlcheck -r on that db table and it says it doesn't exist.  i can run queries on it.  so  i know it is there
<shakes808> i ran myisamchk on it and it says it doesn't exist there too.
<shakes808> I look int the /var/lib/mysql/db/ and see that it is there
<shakes808> i can query it in mysql workbench and command line mysql
<shakes808> i think i found my issue.  not enough space for the tmp file.  tracked it down to a file that got up to ~1.7GB before stopping the query with that message.
<shakes808> probably because i have some history tables there.  but wouldn't think that would happen since i was only pulling one order out.  ... mpfh
<shakes808> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> shakes808: That's a strange way to complain about not-enough-space
<cmaloney> but good to know
<shakes808> haha right?!
<jrwren> i'm surprised greg-g hasn't moved all to postgresql yet ;p
<cmaloney> I'm sre if he could he would.
<greg-g> hrmm?
<gamerchick02> evening everyone
<greg-g> jrwren: I missed the context?
<jrwren> greg-g: just shakes808 having mysql issues :)
<shakes808> Stupid temp files getting too large :-(
<greg-g> jrwren: why would I move all to postgresql?
<jrwren> greg-g: because mysql is bad ;]
<greg-g> why is it my responsibility?!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-06
<jrwren> lol, this conversaton is bad.
<jrwren> I'm so sorry.
<jrwren> What I meant was all the wikimedia things.
<jrwren> and it is your responsibility because you are the most awesome wikimedia person.
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<jrwren> i need help. I have a linux server install that rebooted. I cannot find what triggered the reboot. Syslog doesn't show anything. The only idea I have left is that it has been rooted. I can find no evidence that this is true either.
<jrwren> It was cleanly shutdown. There is no OOM killer message. Syslog shows services cleanly stopping but does not show what triggered the shutdown.
<jrwren> bah, its been offline, unplugged from inet for days. Still, I'd like to know why it rebooted.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Where is the server located? Local or cloud provider or ... ?
<jrwren> my basement.
<jrwren> an old laptop
<cmaloney> I'd check thermal issues
<jrwren> oh! good call!
<cmaloney> those might not make it to the OS level
<cmaloney> Barring that it could be a memory issue that wasn't logged
<cmaloney> unfortunately I've had a number of reboots that haven't left anything of consequence in the logs after reboot
<jrwren> this is just so weird that it was a clean shutodwn.
<cmaloney> That is weird
<cmaloney> no FSCK at all?
<jrwren> something triggered a "reboot"
<cmaloney> Ubuntu server?
<jrwren> i don't nkow. I didn't see it come up. if it did fsck on reboot, it did so cleanly.
<jrwren> Yes, it is ubuntu
<cmaloney> Check if there was a security package installed that required a reboot
<cmaloney> you might have that turned on
<cmaloney> not sure if it'll wait for permission to reboot in that case
<jrwren> maybe, but, why now? when the package had to have been installed for a week since its been offline for a week or so.
<jrwren> the timing makes no sense.
<cmaloney> I'm just grabbing at straws now
<jrwren> *dough*
<jrwren> authlog is separate from syslog
<jrwren> *doh*
<jrwren> May  6 11:07:00 cloudy systemd-logind[2010]: Power key pressed.
<jrwren> May  6 11:07:00 cloudy systemd-logind[2010]: Powering Off...
<jrwren> May  6 11:07:00 cloudy systemd-logind[2010]: System is powering down.
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> that's awesome
<jrwren> my kid pressed the power key and then lied to me!!!
<cmaloney> ruh roh
<cmaloney> time to play the "do you have something to tell me" game
<cmaloney> "You can lie to your parents, but you damn well better not lie to the sysadmin"
<jrwren> she is a good liar.
<jrwren> i don't know how to get the truth from her.
<cmaloney> Only way I can think of is to make the truth less painful than the lie
<cmaloney> but I'm not sure how to enact that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-07
<cmaloney> morning
<gamerchick02> howdy
<rick_h> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-30
<brousch> rick_h_: Time to resurrect Bookie! https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/04/27/1924210/bookmark-syncing-service-xmarks-closes-for-good-on-may-1
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, yea saw that. There's some other bookmark service trying to get off the ground there
<rick_h_> and bookmark sync'ing isn't the same thing. Most browsers do that any more tbh
<jrwren> i still like the reddit sub :)
<rick_h_> reddit sub?
<jrwren> make your own reddit sub for sharing URLs
<rick_h_> https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12041833&cid=56521569 that's the feeling of most users ime
<jrwren> that is the feeling of most users, and for them, its probably fine. For others who actually care about things, its impossible.
<jrwren> They must have missed the part where google makes things unsearchable on request these days.
<Scary_Guy> where as I've got 800 bookmarks
<Scary_Guy> most are still valid, most :)
<Scary_Guy> I used to use xenu link sleuth when I was on Window$ forever ago to make sure of that
<greg-g> firefox's awesome bar is my bookmarking/search tool. I just wish it also did full text search (yes, I want a cache of every page I visit on my laptop, or a server I host, disk is cheap)
<rick_h_> yea, someone updated the bookie extension to do that one day
<rick_h_> so it saved every page visited to bookie which processed the page and fulltext'd the content
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> <3
<brousch> Damnit, my RSS reader is shutting down - the one I moved to after Google Reader died
<waldo323> :(
<greg-g> brousch: I'm rocking newsblur, but I haven't been a big rss reader lately :(
<brousch> It's how I read webcomics and slashdot
<cmaloney> brousch: Which one?
<cmaloney> honeslty I went back to rss2email and haven't looked back
<brousch> GoRead.io
<cmaloney> Ah, that sucks
<rick_h_> yea, newsblur is good people
<greg-g> he's a crazy SF hipster, but the service is good :P
<brousch> I'll take a look. Thanks
<Scary_Guy> I wish http://newsmap.jp worked properly on my system.  Uses Flash.  Not RSS but I like the layout
<Scary_Guy> warning, it does come up with some type of error or warning sometimes (didn't for me this time) probably because it hasn't worked properly in years
<Scary_Guy> still, I wouldn't recommend visiting it without umatrix or at least noscript installed
<Scary_Guy> of course, I don't recommend using ANY site without those installed, either :)
<jrwren> lol @ flash
<Scary_Guy> right?  well the site is ancient
<jrwren> the domain name reminds me of http://popurls.com
<Scary_Guy> the fact that there is an app store button and no F-Droid button (or play store for that matter) makes me not care :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-01
<jrwren> wolfger is really getting into zen. nice, wolfger
<cmaloney> that's really cool
<wolfger> I'm who what now? :-)
<wolfger> Morning!
<wolfger> also: let me toss another +1 onto the Newsblur pile. That's been my rss reader since Google pulled the plug on Reader
<hpucks> RIP reader
 * hpucks poors out some coffee for Reader
<waldo323> gmorning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<greg-g> I still hate Google because of that. It changed the fabric of the web :(
<jrwren> Indeed.
<Scary_Guy> there are much better reasons to hate Google :p
<greg-g> it's in my top 5, definitely
<waldo323> it is part of the pattern of creating something useful that people start to rely on then ending it without spinning it out on its own
<waldo323> #1 reason not to get nest products, in fact any home automation/iot products should have a self serve option in case the creating company goes under, is unreachable, or the consumer wants to use a different option
<jrwren> i just popped over to umich property dispo. I forgot how close it is and how much cool old junk they have.
<jrwren> waldo323: +1
<jrwren> and I work for a "smart home" company :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: What sorts of stuff were they getting rid of?
<jrwren> its a huge wearhouse.
<jrwren> tons of old servers, microscopes, filing cabinets, desks, chairs, centrifuges, tables.
<cmaloney> nice
<greg-g> I'll take a microscope.
<greg-g> Rowan and one of our neighbor boys of similar age have setup a "science lab" at his house. Both of their microscopes, rowan's chemistry set, etc. I love it.
<greg-g> they're just mostly dying things and looking at them.
<cmaloney> That's still pretty cool. Reminds me of when I did similar stuff
<waldo323> I'm not against smart home companies, I do want to see them recognize that some people are willing to work/pay to keep their data more private/secure ... like only when I vpn to home can I make changes to things at home etc
<Scary_Guy> IOT is scary insecure.  I kind of hate my Holmes heater for that reason.  It probably just sucks up data about the network and reports back to the mothership
<Scary_Guy> personally, I want to see more security products focused on alerting the owner rather than paying a service to monitor your house for you
<Scary_Guy> more open source stuff too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-02
<wolfger> a microscope would be cool to have. I might even have a use for a centrifuge, but probably not enough of one to justify giving it living space in my house.
<Scary_Guy> I'd make space
<Scary_Guy> I mean hell, can you imagine hosting parties with that thing mixing shots in it?  Coolest party ever!
<greg-g> they de-mix things :)
<Scary_Guy> https://78.media.tumblr.com/799a65130e27029f2258bf23061b7136/tumblr_nklzc0FQTu1st2trho1_250.gif Tomato tomato
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-03
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Speaking of parties: release party on Friday night at Penguicon
<cmaloney> 7-9pm
<rick_h_> double party
<greg-g> yawn
<jrwren> its penguicon?!?!
<jrwren>  omg, I totally missed it.
<waldo323> not yet it is still in the future and you can still be there
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's still on the radar
<jrwren> I'm feeling very dumb right now, because its taken me until now to realize this: Office Online chrome plugin can access local files.
<jrwren> I've wanted to replace my mom's crap windows laptop with desktop linux for a while now (she continuously gets viruses and randsomware) but she has an attachment to MS Office. This bridges that gap.
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> My parents have Windows in a VM
<cmaloney> Not sure if that would be an option but it might also bridge the gap
<cmaloney> or Crossover Office
<cmaloney> (Word / Excel work OK in there. Powerpoint is iffy)
<jrwren> Crossover is a great idea. I was leaning toward that too because I want to support them.
<jrwren> i don't think she uses PPT, only word and excel
<cmaloney> Yeah, I love Crossover
<cmaloney> I wish I could ditch my Windows VM altogether but H&R Block doesn't work under Crossover
<cmaloney> at least not since I last checked
<cmaloney> I think the one thing that didn't work was the MS browser engine that they were using to display stuff (Cairo/Webkit alike)
<jrwren> with IE/edge not being a separate download at all anywhere anymore, they can't even do something where they suggest downloading it :(
<jrwren> I guess they never could. The EULA always said for use on windows OS only.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-05
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-27
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: <3 that video
<cmaloney> ;deop
<Scary_Guy> Glad you enjoyed it.  Maybe throw it in on the next Metalcast.
<cmaloney> If it's CC licensed. :)
<Scary_Guy> Oh yeah, Open Metalcast.  Well hopefully it is, it's good info.
<cmaloney> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-28
<jrwren> if any of you use pi-hole, I made a blocklist from known phishing around trumpvirus: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jrwren/COVID-THREAT-INTEL-PUBLIC-ZEEK/master/covid-blocklist.txt
<gamerchick02> question: how do you set up a pihole?
<gamerchick02> i'm sure i could look it up, but what do you recommend for it?
<jrwren> if you already have a home server, you can run it in docker VERY trivially.
<jrwren> if you don't, then a raspberry pi works well.
<gamerchick02> i don't have either. i'd have to get a pi. you put it between the cable modem and the router, correct?
<gamerchick02> or the router and your hardwired PC?
<gamerchick02> (i have separate router/modem on purpose)
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/events/5138/monthly-meeting/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-29
<Scary_Guy> If you have a router you should check to see if it supports OpenWRT/DD-WRT and just install the adblock on that.  I think they're trying to port Pi-hole over to it but last I heard there was no progress.
<Scary_Guy> Alternatively, OPNsense/PFsense are great options as well if you want a firewall.
<Scary_Guy> (sorry, dedicated firewall.)
<Scary_Guy> https://foldingathome.org/covid19/
<sealion> Has anyone been successful at reading Amazon Kindle ebooks locally on Linux? I'm considering whether to buy a hard copy of a book or save some money and buy the ebook version. I'm not sure I like the idea of being beholden to Amazon's cloud and not having a locally readable copy of the book.
<cmaloney> For non-DRM books I've been using FBreader with some success
<cmaloney> but you have to do the work to find out of it's DRM or not
<cmaloney> Last I checked they also have a "cloud reader" but that's browser-based
<sealion> It looks like the book(s) I'm interested likely have DRM.
<sealion> I'd be okay with reading through a browser. The thing that would bother me is that I wouldn't actually own a copy of the book, just a license to read it. I'd have to take it on faith the Amazon will let me to continue to have access to the book a year, five years, or ten years in the future.
<sealion> What's your preference when it comes to DRM ebooks vs physical copies when it comes to software development reference books?
<cmaloney> I do my best to not purchase DRM ebooks
<cmaloney> so I'm more picky about who I buy from
<cmaloney> No Starch Press, Pragmatic Programmers, Manning, InformIT, and Apress all have no DRM (InformIT you might need to be careful, but most of their books are nonDRM)
<cmaloney> O'Reilly used to be on that list, but they closed their shop, so they're pretty much dead to me. :)
<cmaloney> Though they have non-DRM ebooks on various sites like Kobo and Amazon
<sealion> What should I look for on InformIT to determine that a book is DRM free?
<sealion> Answering my own question, it looks like non-DRM books are the ones with watermarks.
<jrwren> i prefer print. egon was wrong
<sealion> I may end up splitting the difference.
<sealion> I can get a new print copy of one book.
<sealion> The other book is out of print and my best option for print is used. Amazon has one vendor selling used at $48.99 while other vendors are at $74.03 and up. The e-book version at InformIT is $36.
<cmaloney> Yeah, the ones with DRM usually mention Adobe in there.
<cmaloney> Whch book is it?
<sealion> Refactoring to Patterns
<sealion> Working Effectively with Legacy Code is the one that I can still get a new print for.
<cmaloney> IUGD45 <- use this code to get 45% off
<sealion> Wow! InformIT actually has WEWLC a bit cheaper than Amazon for print, or another $9 beyond that for the e-book.
<cmaloney> on the informit site
<cmaloney> DIGITALCOMMUNITY will also work, but that expires at the end of 2020
<cmaloney> Tell them MUG sent you. ;)
<sealion> Thanks! :)
<cmaloney> np
<jrwren> WEWLC is a good book.
<cmaloney> seconded
<cmaloney> Not sure about refactoring to patterns, though I have a bit of a hate-on for patterns
<sealion> Yes, WEWLC is the book I wish I knew about and had back when I was doing professional work.
<sealion> cmaloney: RTF addresses that somewhat by acknowledging that overuse or incorrect use of patterns can be worse than no patterns.
<sealion> Nice, I can get both print and e-book for WEWLC for a bundle price. Tempting...
<cmaloney> <3
<jrwren> i just checked my shelves. I don't have a copy. I thought I might and that I'd offer it to you.
<sealion> I'm not seeing anywhere to apply a discount code during checkout on InformIT. I'm wondering if it's because the items in my cart are already discounted.
<sealion> ... or not?
<cmaloney> It's after the checkout
<cmaloney> So hit checkout and then it should have an area to add a coupon
<cmaloney> It's slightly confusing, but it's there. :)
<sealion> After setting up your payment?
<cmaloney> You might need to create an account first
<cmaloney> I don't recall if that was one of the stores that was really late in the game for discount codes
<cmaloney> with my account I get it after hitting "checkout" but that's also because I have several of those coupons stored
<sealion> Ok... I've added the coupon codes to my account, but I'm not getting the option to apply them after I hit "checkout".
<sealion> Maybe the codes don't apply to the particular books in my cart?
<cmaloney> Nah, they'll just show up as grayed out
<cmaloney> But if you have the code it might show up near the end
<cmaloney> since you have the one code
<cmaloney> just don't finalize the order or I'll feel bad
<sealion> ;)
<Scary_Guy> https://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 classic
<Scary_Guy> https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks good list of resources.
<Scary_Guy> Also https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
<jrwren> wow... docker isn't bad... until it is: https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/15086
<jrwren> if you want to know a remote IP connecting to your docker service you... just can't?!?
<cmaloney> jrwren: oof
<cmaloney> honestly Docker just ... I can't even
<jrwren> yeah, docker is great, until it isn't.
<cmaloney> I mean... just... words.
<cmaloney> of course using docker for a ssl proxy is just...
<cmaloney> you broke my braib
<jrwren> the ssl is beside the point.
<jrwren> ANY service hosted in docker can't see the source IP of what is connecting to it because docker-proxy is a TCP redir, not iptables doing routing.
<cmaloney> https://jitsi.decafbad.net/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak20200429
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-30
<mrgoodcat> wonder when I got kicked out...
<cmaloney> probably don't have rejoin set up
<mrgoodcat> i do, but this channel requires to be auth'd with services
<mrgoodcat> and i am too lazy to run teh 2 commands to enable sasl
<cmaloney> your loss. :)
<Scary_Guy> I have SASL enabled and it works great.  I have everything in my weechat configs.  The only password I have is a login one and one for bitlbee since it wants to be difficult.
<brian__> The discount code is a lie.
<Scary_Guy> See, that makes me want to try "a lie" for the discount code.
<brian__> heh
<brian__> InformIT's not impressing me very much right now.
<brian__> ... or rather, they are, but it's a bad impression.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-01
<jrwren> https://pop.system76.com  interesting to see the marketing diverge from ubuntu, even though it is still ubuntu based.
<jrwren> "Pop!_OS uses APT and Flatpak package management"
<jrwren> system76 knows about the snap/snappy lie
<llua> what lie?
<jrwren> that it is a good thing. ;)
<mrgoodcat> I have not yet used snaps. is it the default installation mechanism on ubuntu these days?
<cmaloney> It's what they are convincing commercial folks to use for their software
<cmaloney> For other software it depends on the group and whether Canonical has other things for their GSoC folks
<cmaloney> I think one of them was "snapping" tootstream at one point, but like most things once the GSoC stopped then the person disappeared and it hasn't been updated since
<cmaloney> At least I haven't touched it, and I have no desire to touch it
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: chromium in 20.04 is a snap. so if you install 20.04 you are using snaps for at least that one thing.
<mrgoodcat> I'm only using ubuntu on the server these days
<jrwren> same.
<jrwren> but no, it isn't the default for everything. It is still debian based and apt.
<mrgoodcat> i'm not really even all that familiar with snap as a concept
<mrgoodcat> never really paid that much attention to it
<jrwren> its a terrible system that does solve some problems that you probably don't have.
<jrwren> the terrible part is: no source packages, so building a package yourself isn't reproducable or even possible sometimes.
<jrwren> server push: your system is always talking about to the snappy server and you ahve zero control of when updates get to you or if you even want them.
<jrwren> i mean... if you control the box, you could make an iptables rule blocking the communication... but if you have 2 snaps installed and only want ot upgrade one, there is no way. You are not in control.
<cmaloney> That's the main thing that I really don't like about snaps
<cmaloney> And that's before we get to the "what happens when the community gets bored" aspects
<mrgoodcat> super weird that you can't toggle automatic updating per-snap
<mrgoodcat> is that an intentional design decision or just a missing feature?
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure from the standpoint of someone writing software that they want to package for linux, it is probably great
<mrgoodcat> as an open source maintainer myself, I can see some value in "guaranteeing" that all users are on the latest version. since i write a library not an application, auto-updating couldn't work for me though
<mrgoodcat> when you say no source packages, I assume you mean there's no equivalent of `apt source <package>`
<cmaloney> correct
<mrgoodcat> can't remember the last time i used that feature in apt (not implying it's without value, just that I don't use it)
<cmaloney> Let me paint a hypothetical: how do you handle beta releases with snaps? :)
<cmaloney> or backward-incompatible changes
<mrgoodcat> backwards-incompatible changes seems like a bigger deal than beta to me
<mrgoodcat> for beta, you can easily just have a second snap for your beta channel
<mrgoodcat> obviously that isn't without problems, but it's doable
<jrwren> yeah, they have beta channels and you can bounce between versions.
<jrwren> but you still have no control over which version is in that channel.
<mrgoodcat> one snap can have multiple channels?
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> it is a different snap.
<mrgoodcat> bummer
<mrgoodcat> not that surprising though
<jrwren> but with the same name.
<jrwren> snap install --beta myapp # gets a diff version
<jrwren> so you can't have the beta and non-beta installed concurerntly? apparently? I dunno.
<jrwren> which is weird, because they way they are packaged and installed there isn't much of a tech reason you could have both installed.
<mrgoodcat> just installed the go snap to see what all this is about
<mrgoodcat> looks like it has channels built in
<mrgoodcat> stable/beta/edge for each 1.x version
<mrgoodcat> plus an overall stable/beta/edge version
<mrgoodcat> oh and candidate
<mrgoodcat> so it looks like you can't prevent bugfix updates, which _shouldn't_ introduce backwards breaking changes, but we all know that's a lie a lot of the time
<jrwren> its not a bad system if tehre were just a few changes.
<jrwren> but until there are, I'll prefer flatpacks
<mrgoodcat> isn't flatpak for desktop apps only?
<jrwren> I don't know.
<jrwren> I never thought snaps would get used for server or dev stuff until they were.
<jrwren> I mean... go... go of all things is about the dumbest thing to use a snap for.
<mrgoodcat> it was the first thing i thought of lol
<jrwren> it is literally untarring a tarbal to get a go compiler.
<jrwren> yeah, I'm not attacking you.
<mrgoodcat> the reason would be to get automatic updates
<jrwren> the fact that it is there at all amazes me.
<jrwren> someone thought, "yeah, this will be useful" ?
<mrgoodcat> I'm primarily a tsc developer, and I like to essentially always run the latest version except when some compiler change breaks my build (which has happened but is uncommon)
<jrwren> But..... there are probably peopel out there using ubuntu-core alone with use cases we can't really imagine.
<jrwren> so I should jsut STFU
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> for go, tsc, node... just don't even use debs ;)
<mrgoodcat> would never want my CI to update the compiler automatically though
<jrwren> right?!?
<mrgoodcat> for node I use nvm, for tsc I use npm, nvm is installed directly
<mrgoodcat> locally anyways
<mrgoodcat> for CI everything is installed directly
<mrgoodcat> these days all my CI is run in containers anyways
<jrwren> yup.
<mrgoodcat> hmm looks like flatpak skips out on sandboxing too
<jrwren> containers really throw things like snap a wrench, cuz you've already got yoru base OS image, tiny as possible, I hope, do you really want to pull another one for the ubuntu-core for the snaps to use?
<jrwren> yeah, which SOUNDS bad at first... until you realize that a ton of snap apps aren't sandboxed.
<cmaloney> Honestly I wish more of the effort would go into debs and ppas
<cmaloney> I think PPAs are still the bee's knees
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> but it seems like the half-life to a release's debs is 1 year
<jrwren> but making debian packages is even more challenging than making snaps.
<cmaloney> and then it dries up
<cmaloney> I looked at the snap file for tootstream and couldn't figure it out
<cmaloney> honestly, and this is going to sound strange, but RPMs had the most readable format for building packages
<jrwren> yup
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: the packager supporting sandboxing is the first step to getting more sandboxed apps. I don't think you can brush that away so easily
<cmaloney> I still haven't built a .deb package
<jrwren> rpmspec was nice and clean and all in one place.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: i'm not brushing it away, i'm just saying it ain't all there.
<cmaloney> The problem I'm seeing is that snaps are recreating some of the wall-smashing silliness of Docker without the large community to bash things into working
<cmaloney> so you get half-assed docker
<jrwren> snaps also break some pretty basic unix/posix stuff: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/Ubuntu2004SnapsHomeIssue
<cmaloney> and docker already feels half-assed as it is
<cmaloney> "Although the messages do not say this, the Snap system ignores any $HOME environment variable that you might have set; what it cares about is where /etc/passwd says your home directory is (after any symlinks are resolved). "
<cmaloney> FFS
<greg-g> ohey, speaking of /home, ya'll see homed yet?
<greg-g> :) :)
<jrwren> homed?
<cmaloney> greg-g: systemd's home stuff
<greg-g> yup
<cmaloney> I'm grateful there's still BSD
<greg-g> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/
<cmaloney> for when my computer becomes an unusable teetering mess
<greg-g> it isn't yet?
<cmaloney> not quite.
<jrwren> i'm typing to you on a kb plugged into a mac in an iterm window to an ubuntu server... its a mess.
<jrwren> that TR 404s for me
<jrwren> https://systemd.io/HOME_DIRECTORY/  for crypto home dirs it is actually a good solution IMO
<jrwren> i watched the All Systems Go talk that Pottering did and it made good sense.
<jrwren> but then... i actually really like systemd... so... I'm crazy
<cmaloney> My only concern is corner cases where it doesn't.
<cmaloney> eg: $HOME directories
<cmaloney> where we're putting in patches on top of patches to make shit work again the way it worked before
<jrwren> but that is exactly what systemd has never done. we had patches on patches before. systemd throws everything out and starts from scratch.
<jrwren> resolvconf & dnsmasq... IGNORE those... systemd-resolve for you!
<mrgoodcat> think i'm with jrwren here, encrypted home directories are a Good Thing
<mrgoodcat> I also have no real qualms with systemd
<jrwren> systemd... its like upstart only better!  ;)
<cmaloney> Encrypted home directories are great until you have a hardware issue
<mrgoodcat> I was annoyed when it was first introduced because I needed to learn a new way to manage services and such
<cmaloney> and then you have no home directroy
<mrgoodcat> or backups apparently
<jrwren> yup.
<mrgoodcat> if you're not backing up, not having an encrypted homedir isn't saving you from hardware failures
<cmaloney> Right, but if you're having hardware failure you limit your chances of recovery considerably
<cmaloney> with an encrypted filesystem
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> ugh... SSD in my wife's laptop died yesterday. completely gone. doesn't even show as a device. i think we ahve some backups.
<cmaloney> remember when people compressed their filesystems back in the 40MB days?
<mrgoodcat> i do not
<cmaloney> bad sector = bad boom
<mrgoodcat> i am 28 years old
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> Stacker
<greg-g> barely a mr ;)
<jrwren> DiskDboule
<jrwren> now we have the same thing at a filesystem level.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It's a lesson that we learned early on
<mrgoodcat> I have never had a computer that isn't backed up regularly
<cmaloney> the more layers to the data the more chances for failure
<mrgoodcat> I also would consider lacking FDE a non-starter for a computer for personal or business use
<jrwren> just turn on ZFS compression!
<cmaloney> Oh I agree with the backups, but not having to go to backup is a good thing
<jrwren> just turn on BTRFS compression.  ;)
<cmaloney> just mount /dev/null /home
<cmaloney> best encryption and compression on the planet
<cmaloney> write once, read never
<mrgoodcat> I very rarely have to even consider multi-user systems anymore luckily
<jrwren> your ext4 or XFS doesn't do compression?  Run those on ZFS!  https://serverfault.com/questions/617648/transparent-compression-filesystem-in-conjunction-with-ext4
<jrwren> ð¤
<greg-g> there's already untold lateys between me and where my data lives, really. The diskdrive lies to the kernel, the kernel lies to the user space programs
<mrgoodcat> if I did, I would be very uncomfortable with having a homedir that was not encrypted
<jrwren> it is pretty cool we are starting to be able to control how the kernel lies to the userspace!  https://lwn.net/Articles/818285/  ;)
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yeah, exactly. the whole system encryption... is that LUKS?... is probably enough for single users systems.
<mrgoodcat> i'm not even using single-user so much as single-application systems now
<mrgoodcat> and that's assuming that layer isn't abstracted away already, which it is most of the time in my work
<jrwren> what really makes me sad about snaps is that the reason they seem to be used because an app needs different deps than the system deps, and they do solve that problem, but that problem could also be solved by exception in some debian packaging requirements. But instead of letting pragmatism rule, idealism rules.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yeah, a single app container is such a different thing than a single user laptop workstation
<mrgoodcat> I have also never worked on an application that was not containerized and globally distributed though, so I think of server operating systems a little differently. it's little more than a comodity to be thrown away to me. nothing persistent on them anyways
<jrwren> exactly.
<mrgoodcat> my personal and work computers are both macbook pros now
<jrwren> and yet... someone has to run the servers that those containers run on ;)
<mrgoodcat> yea, but that's not my problem
<mrgoodcat> I assume they're not using snaps
<jrwren> well.. i think if they are using the canonical distribution of kubernetes, they might be.
<mrgoodcat> the last app i was working on used the managed gcp kubernetes service, the one before that used aws ecs (elastic container service is not kubernetes, but is a managed service which solves similar problems)
<mrgoodcat> now I work on a tracing
<mrgoodcat> agent
<cmaloney> I would not assume they weren't using snaps. :)
<cmaloney> Authy is using snaps for their desktop application instead of the Chrome extension
<cmaloney> and it's mildly irritating
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: I'll rephrase. As long as the service continues to operate as expected, I don't really care what they use
<cmaloney> Hoep you never have to maintain someone else's bad decisions. :)
<mrgoodcat> also, I very much doubt the people running managed container services at large cloud providers are using snaps :)
<mrgoodcat> something tells me kubernetes being updated in gke is a titanic effort
<jrwren> what is authy?
<cmaloney> Two-factor authentication client
<cmaloney> cloud-synced
<cmaloney> so I have the same codes on my phone as on my desktop
<cmaloney> kinda handy
<jrwren> that sounds nice.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: All I'm saying is that when things go to shit you just remember that still small voice that was cryig off in the distance. :)
<greg-g> +1 to authy, that plus bitwarden is what I use
<cmaloney> I was using the Google Authenticator, but having it on the desktop was a killer feature for me
<mrgoodcat> i'm using 1password. all my 2fas are in google authenticator, but i've been meaning to move them to 1password so I don't have to play with my phone to get them
<cmaloney> and it just works better
<jrwren> i use DUO... cuz I live in ann arbor and I work for Cisco ;)
<jrwren> the best is when the server uses duo push. no code to enter, just tap yes.
<mrgoodcat> 1password uses touchid to unlock on macos which I appreciate
<jrwren> i keep forgetting mac has touchid now
<mrgoodcat> I also have a family account so having my passwords, but also shared family passwords in there is nice
<mrgoodcat> i have the new 16" mbp with the improved kb
<mrgoodcat> not that I ever use the built-in kb anyways
<jrwren> love my cherry mx blues :)
<mrgoodcat> just moved my digital ocean 2fa to 1password
<mrgoodcat> I knew this was going to be a killer feature, but damn this is the best
<mrgoodcat> why did I put this off for so long
<brian__> "Should Poettering not be able to develop a solution for the SSH conundrum, systemd-homed will have to be relegated to desktops and laptop distributions, leaving servers out of the mix."
<brian__> ok, because no one has ever wanted to SSH into their desktop machine.
<brian__> (IRC needs a sarcasm tag)
<Scary_Guy> Just use /s
<jrwren> you'd still be able to ssh to your desktop machine after you've already logged into it once.
<jrwren> who logs out of their desktop?
<jrwren> every?
<jrwren> ever?
<brian__> True, although there's probably at least one failure case where you can't login locally (maybe a b0rked apt upgrade followed by reboot?).
<jrwren> isn't that true regarless of systemd-homed?
<brian__> Well, SSH would (hopefully) be an option in that case, assuming SSH wasn't b0rked as well.
<jrwren> there is an old solution to that... enable ssh as root.
<cmaloney> I log out of my desktop
<cmaloney> if I can't ssh into my desktop then it's a complete nonstarter
<cmaloney> I also ssh to fix things
<cmaloney> JFC, no
<cmaloney> enable ssh as root? WhyyyyyyyY?
<jrwren> i don't use a linux desktop or laptop so WTF do I know ;)
<cmaloney> cue my rant earlier about breaking shit that worked
<cmaloney> and having to work-around "correct"
<jrwren> but it doesn't.
<jrwren> it doesn't exist as yet.
<jrwren> we don't nkow if that will be an issue.
<cmaloney> Right. That's why I'm waiting and seeing
<jrwren> same.
<brian__> Unless your distro makes the decision for you.
<jrwren> and that is another thing nice about systemd, it really is a component system, you don't have to use parts that don't work.
<cmaloney> But I can totally see one dippy use-case start ruining things for non-traditional usage
<cmaloney> Just means I'll have to install Ubuntu Server and run apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<jrwren> well yeah, that is what we see with snaps... broken for non-traditional usage.
<cmaloney> Sorry.... snap get --whatever-the-fuck ubuntu-desktop
<jrwren> and heck. thatt isn't even non-traditional, it is just a tiny but out of hte norm.
<cmaloney> jrwren: More like "lacking imagination and POSIX documentation"
<jrwren> lol
 * cmaloney pulls the rant box
<brian__> I use snap, but only so that I have automatic updates for software I can't get through a debian repository. So far, that's mostly been limited to JetBrains products.
<brian__> But then again, I use Debian, not Ubuntu. ;)
<brian__> If Debian starts pulling the "you have to install our distro through snap" card, I'm looking for a new distro.
<jrwren> they won't.
<jrwren> debian hasn't adopted snap at all AFAIK.
<jrwren> heck, can you even apt install snapd in debian? don't you ahve to add a PPA or curl|sh or something?
<brian__> Snap is part of the basic debian repository. Fortunately, that's as far as it goes.
<jrwren> oh, it is built in now. that is... good I guess.
<Scary_Guy> "snap your fingers snap your neck"
<Scary_Guy> Anyway I remember having to install it for $something but now I don't use it or the $something.  I should really just rip it out.
<jrwren> old, but I had missed it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/03/ubuntu-20-04s-zsys-adds-zfs-snapshots-to-package-management/
<jrwren> very interesting.
<mrgoodcat> brian__: I think it's incredibly unlikely homed would be released and go into wide usage without ssh support
<brian__> mrgoodcat: One would hope so.
<brian__> I can't help but remember the shitstorm that raged when many distros were early adopters of systemd, though.
<jrwren> only from a select few loud people who wish linux was freebsd.
<jrwren> "who moved my cheese!"
<cmaloney> I can say that my main concern is that everything is essentially moving into init and become some binary blob crap
<cmaloney> I hate how systemd takes over logging
<cmaloney> but I'm also over it
<cmaloney> I just don't want to see the usability that I've come to expect under Linux being supplanted by some of the design decisions I didn't care for under Windows
<cmaloney> in order words, don't break grep
<jrwren> i hated how systemd took over logging until I saw journalctl used really well.
<jrwren> being able to say, "show me the logs from this datetime to this datetie" and get results instantly, not some slow read the file line by line grep that parses the text date.
<jrwren> its a major usability increase.
<jrwren> it is just a learning curve.
