#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-23
<snap-l> I wish I had a bluetooth-controlled IR emitter in my living room
<snap-l> so I wouldn't have to get up to turn the stereo off.
<snap-l> <- lazy.
<snap-l> Getting some T-Storms here
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hhef3/in_which_zed_encounters_a_small_snag_with_fossil/ <- why do I feel like Hg is a great way to occasionally lose your work?
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hhef3/in_which_zed_encounters_a_small_snag_with_fossil/c1vg3nh <- Heh
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<rick_h__> ugh, here comes a case of the mondays
<brousch> messed up my back doing yardwork. i hate meatspace
<rick_h__> yea, busted butt to try to get lawn done before the rain
<rick_h__> after doing basement cleaning/reorg
<rick_h__> and paying for it this morning for sure
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> lelectrician is here early
<snap-l> so going to power down
<greg-g>  lots of ugh this morning
<rick_h__> heh, definitely
<_stink_> so if i'm in a manic state of happiness i should keep it to myself?
<rick_h__> _stink_: hah, naw, need to raise the rest of us up
<rick_h__> do share :P
<brousch> he's such a tease
<_stink_> oh, i'm not.  that was strictly hypothetical :P
<rick_h__> crap, now you got our hopes all up for some sunshine and crushed us more
<brousch> as long as one person was happy, i was ok with the world. now i'm gonna jump off a bridge
<_stink_> yeah, i have that effect on people
<brousch> man, joplin got flattened
<snap-l> That was fun
<rick_h__> party!
<rick_h__> I think we need a coffee run
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> The electrician was early. Threw off the entire morning
<snap-l> Was supposed to be here at 8am. Was here at 7:40am
<greg-g> in the morning, 20 minutes *is* a huge deal. that can make or break a mood
<snap-l> http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/apettit7/52111/Rapture.jpg
<snap-l> Oh, I got a headbutt to the lips this morning instead of a kiss from JoDee
<greg-g> that's an odd electrician
<snap-l> I meant JoDee wasn't in a very happy mood
<snap-l> She was already being rushed for 8am, and 7:40am was too much
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h__> see, no if _stink_ has been all sharing the happy, he could have helped fix this, now it's more ugh
<rick_h__> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/firefox-5-beta-lands-right-on-schedule/12906
<snap-l> Ok, it's all his fault is it?
<rick_h__> FF5, here we go FF turns into chrome
<rick_h__> (which is all good except now we have a FF extension to worry about ugh)
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h__> http://www.androidcentral.com/verizon-prepping-10-more-cities-lte
<rick_h__> some michigan love
<snap-l> Yay
 * rick_h__ checks ohio for 4g coverage
<snap-l> I am downloading Lady Gaga's latest album, only becasue a) It's .99 on Amazon, and b) I think I still have a $1 credit at Amazon for a MP3 purchase.
<rick_h__> mmmm, 4g could be cool for covering pyohio and OLF
<rick_h__> could probably stream some ustream, etc
<snap-l> That would be cool
<rick_h__> yea, we're still thinking of getting a table for OLF right?
<rick_h__> I've not heard about that stuff opening up yet
<snap-l> Wow, people are tearing into Amazon because this album isn't downloading for them
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Born-This-Way-digital-booklet/product-reviews/B0051QIGP4/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar
<snap-l> rick_h__: YEah, that's what I was thinking
<snap-l> I'm a little worried about PyOhio. Haven't heard a peep
<snap-l> re: registration / hotel / etc.
<snap-l> Just request for talks.
<rick_h__> hmmm, yea I should email them shortly. I see some sponsorses listed and a category called "media sponsors"
<rick_h__> but don't see a price category for that
<rick_h__> vs OSS/.org
<rick_h__> why do they keep trying to mess up a good thing? http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/23/kobo-introduces-new-touchscreen-e-reader-drops-original-model-to-99/
<rick_h__> I do not want to touch my e-reader kthx
<snap-l> Thanks, Amazon for completely fucking me.
<snap-l> .amz file only downloaded a handful of the tracks
<rick_h__> joining the angry crowd?
<snap-l> Yes, but rather than passive-aggressive in the review section, I'm going to do something about it
<snap-l> Apparently they're having growing problems with the cloud downloads
<snap-l> miro changed their landing page
<snap-l> looks like it now has ads
<rick_h__> and another service grows up
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Might have to dust off piddlepodder if it gets too obtrusive. ;)
<snap-l> Who keeps changing the damn internet on me.
<snap-l> STOP IT!
<rick_h__> yea, tell me about it
<snap-l> I'm going to start up a twitter account called 2010 Linux User. ;)
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/74271560
<wolfger> what's got snap-l's goat today?
<snap-l> Amazon MP3 store screwed up
<wolfger> inconcievable!
<wolfger> You were trying to download the new Lady Gaga album for 99 cents, weren't you?
<wolfger> I know that's what I'm doing when I get home...
<jrwren> rick_h__: recommend an AMI for use on EC2 with LAMP
<rick_h__> one that's lamp prepped?
<rick_h__> or just want to run a lamp server?
<rick_h__> I'd just do an ubuntu micro ami to start out and setup from there
<rick_h__> I don't know of any with lamp pre-installed/config
<jrwren> taht is waht I said, but these guys spun their wheels for an hour or two thinking there was some AMI out there that would save them from teh apt-get install libapache2-php5...
<jrwren> thanks.
<rick_h__> it's like two commands to setup php on ubuntu :/
<rick_h__> sudo apt-get install apache2 mysql-server mysql-client phpmyadmin libapache2-mod-php5
<rick_h__> oh, missed php5-mysql
<rick_h__> haven't done a php server in a while
<brousch> does server version allow to install it at install time?
<brousch> a little check box
<rick_h__> well an AMI is pre-setup and doens't go through the install process
<rick_h__> so you don't hit that on an EC2 box
<brousch> ah
<rick_h__> I'm sure someone has an AMI with that prepped up, but doesn't seem worth the time
<krondor> wouldn't you just build out an instance how you like then save it off as an ami for other ones if you don't like typing apt-get install foo
<rick_h__> well what you should do is script that
<rick_h__> so that when you want to setup a new box, you'd run the script
<jrwren> you could, but if you are only building one EC2 instance, you need not.
<rick_h__> and be able to spin up new instances, etc
<greg-g> man I hate slurpers
<rick_h__> slurpers?
<rick_h__> blog slurping?
<greg-g> people who slurp their can of soda constantly
<jrwren> lol.
<rick_h__> oh, lol
<rick_h__> didn't see that coming
<jrwren> what if it is coffee or tea?
<rick_h__> greg-g: bring them an empty glass
<greg-g> all slurping is annoying, unless you are trying to drink something really hot, then it is only acceptable the first 2 times, after that, wait, or blow on it
<rick_h__> quoteth greg-g: "after that...blow on it"
<jrwren> greg-g: slurp rules! I agree on these slurp rules.  post 'em to the ubuntu loco wiki
<brousch> quote of the day
<greg-g> glad my misery is funny
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h__> come on, smiling helps make people less annoying
<rick_h__> that and shooting them...but we're a bit far away for the second option
<greg-g> we're closer than you think
<snap-l> I think there was an old usenet command called slurp
<snap-l> so I had to re-read that to get the gist. :)
<wolfger> greg-g: what about 7-11 Slurpees?
<greg-g> do not slurp a slurpee
<wolfger> but... it's in the name!
<wolfger> it's practically required by definition
<wolfger> they're not called Sipees
<wolfger> :-p
<greg-g> wolfger: yeah, well.... seatbelts are not called safety restraint devices because they're unsafe!  :P
<rick_h__> oh crap, boom goes the Monday
<rick_h__> greg-g: with the beat down
<greg-g> take note, this is the greg you get if you slurp in his presence
<brousch> terrifying
<wolfger> Seatbelts are called seatbelts. Because they are belts. Attached to your seat.
<greg-g> erm, I meant safety belt, which they are also called
<wolfger> the sign on the dashboard does not say "fasten your safety belt" :-p
 * wolfger suddenly gets a desire to find a way to slurp over IRC....
<jrwren> slurp is a nntp binary downloader right?  so you can snag 0-day movies from the usetnets.
<rick_h__> http://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-a-safety-belt-works
<rick_h__> http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/SafetyBelt/OPIPT_FinalRpt_07-17-03.html
<greg-g> rick_h__++
<rick_h__> http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-security/safety-belt/index.htm?printer=true
<rick_h__> ok, I'm done then
<wolfger> "Shoulder belt (lap)"???
<wolfger> They need Human Anatomy 101
<wolfger> the shoulder is not located in or near the lap
<rick_h__> just saying, that the dot.gov, nhtsa ...seem like some reasonable places to get 'terminology' from
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> 2carpros is a lousy place, though (apparantly)
<rick_h__> well that one came up first, but yea...I figured I'd better get more authoratative before I got feedback
<rick_h__> was originally looking for a sign that said safety belt
<rick_h__> but most signs are just pictures of belts locking
<wolfger> what a timely discussion, since this weekend is the start of The Semi-annual Seatbelt Law Enforcement Week
<rick_h__> greg-g: is sneaky like that
<wolfger> one of 2 (arguably 3) weeks per year that law enforcement really cares if you wear it or not
<rick_h__> well, I think that I've got a few friends that would disagree
<rick_h__> though I admit mostly they were stopped for reason X and the SB got added on for good measure
<greg-g> oops, I didn't *really* mean to get this conversation going ;)
<wolfger> exactly
<rick_h__> but I'd hardly say 'really cares' only occurs during that limited time
<brousch> greg-g: you troll, you pay the consequences
<rick_h__> I've missed them all so far, and I'm running out of steam...
<greg-g> brousch: touche
<krondor> http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1593_3504-256620--,00.html
<wolfger> and for my part, I've been pulled over twice for reason x while not wearing a belt, and not been ticketed for non-compliance with the belt... Just lucky I guess.
 * greg-g grumbles of the mighigan.gov urls
<krondor> michgan seatbelt rate is > 95% you can't get 5 percent of people to do anything, seems like a waste to focus so heavily on the last few percent right..
<wolfger> but there's only 2 or 3 weeks a year where they will actually pull people over specifically to issue seatbelt tickets
<rick_h__> meh, we've got crap like national donut day
<wolfger> the rest of the time, there's some other reason, and they pile on
<rick_h__> nothing wrong with a little theme events once in a while
<brousch> we do? when is that?!
<rick_h__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Doughnut_Day
<greg-g> lol
<wolfger> brousch: there's a "
<rick_h__> (I just threw that out there, but you just know it had to exist)
<krondor> I thought that was the point of fat tuesday
<wolfger> "National X Day" for virtually any X you can come up with
<rick_h__> krondor: no, that's specific to the puncki thing right?
<krondor> yes the superior donut
<rick_h__> anyway, that's my point. It's like a company saying it's "quality week"
<brousch> oh man, national donut day is coming up soon
<brousch> first friday of ju ne
<rick_h__> all entities setup themes
<krondor> yeah but they also pump ad money into click it or ticket campaigns.. that's the waste I guess or 'seatbelt enforcement zones' rather then doing the normal police work.  I bet there's OT opportunities too
 * krondor wears his seatbelt always, but is annoyed anyway
<wolfger> what I want to know is, how do they determine there was "a dip" in seatbelt use?
<rick_h__> krondor: true, but it's also a general reminder and somewhat friendly face of public law enforcement
<brousch> they could look at accidents
<rick_h__> "hey, we're looking out for you, we're protecting"...
<wolfger> I think what they really mean is "more people who dislike seatbelts got into accidents last year than the year before"
<rick_h__> hah, this coderwall thing is brilliant
<rick_h__> " During our beta we can only handle so many new accounts (due to API throttle limits and all). The current demand has us a little backlogged. Your expected wait time is currently 5 days in this queue. We'll email you as soon as your wall is ready."
<brousch> june 3, national donut day 2011, is on my calendar now. thanks rick_h__
<rick_h__> "Cut in line and get your wall within the next 2 hours by clicking  or tweeting your page"
<wolfger> also, if that's how they record seatbelt use, it's all a lie anyway
<rick_h__> so doesn't auto tweet, but encourages me to do so, or else wait 5 days in the queue
<wolfger> I'm 0 for 3 on wearing seatbelts in accidents, but 3 for 3 according to police reports
<wolfger> because, I'd be stupid to admit to breaking the law now, wouldn't I?
<rick_h__> wait, you've had 3 accidents/
<rick_h__> ?
<brousch> so you're a liar and a seatbelt non-cnformist? i don't know which is worse
<rick_h__> even my sucky driver wife has only had 1
<rick_h__> he's an accident prone crazy person is what it sounds like
<wolfger> Well, more than that. I've had 3 since the law went into effect
 * brousch files that quote from rick_h__ away for future use
<rick_h__> WHAT?!
<wolfger> Of those 3, I was a passenger in one.
<rick_h__> ok, thanks. I've lost all interest in this discussion because it's not even intelligent any more, back to work
<wolfger> I'm wondering which part made the discussion unintelligent... the part where rick_h__ assumed I was a sucky driver without knowing if I was even behind the wheel (much less at-fault), or the part where.... well, I'm not sure
<brousch> have any of you used gnome3 shell?
<wolfger> thanks, greg-g.... see what trouble you cause? :-)
<wolfger> Time to flee work.  Have a good non-slurp-filled day.
<snap-l> brousch: Not recently.
<jcastro> ""Unity" which is the most un-unix-like GUI I've ever seen."
<jcastro> WOO HOO!
<jrwren> i don't even know what a "unix-like GUI" means. I've read some of the UNIX and POSIX spec. I don't recall anything about GUI in there.
<jrwren> if there was anything about GUI in there, it was xlib.
<jrwren> unity is definitely built on xlib :)
<snap-l> jrwren: You know what un-unix-like means in this instance?
<snap-l> jrwren: It means that the poster doesn't think it meets whatever lofty UNIX plateau they think GNOME / KDE achieved.
<snap-l> I wonder what they think of the Macintosh GUI, since that's UNIX-based. ;)
<jrwren> exactly, but said poster is a fool :)
<jrwren> or at least very ignornat.
<jrwren> pardon my spelling
<snap-l> Not absolving, just acknowledging. ;)
<jrwren> agreed
<snap-l> Personally, the only UNIX gui looks a little something like this:
<snap-l> $
<krondor> s/\$/#/ until sudo that was
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-24
<rick_h__> ok, funny: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/video-obamas-beast-car-gets-stuck-on-ramp-in-dublin/10204
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, those cars are heavy as hell
<snap-l> they had to make special arrangements to park over at Hope College when George Senior came to speak
<jrwren> anyone ever use xmlrpc cmdline?  http://xmlrpc-c.sourceforge.net/doc/#xmlrpc
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<snap-l> I was thinking of upgrading to Natty today, but with the machine revolt I have on my hands, that doesn't seem prudent.
<greg-g> snap-l: I think I'd wait a day or two if I were you :)
<rick_h__> revolt!
<snap-l> yeah, that would be a good call.
<snap-l> Well, my machine this morning was thrashing about
<snap-l> apparently it had a page fault around 1am
<snap-l> and that set everything into hell
<snap-l> Not sure how one fills up 8GB on a desktop machine, but there we are.
<snap-l> I think Miro might be to blame for that one
<brousch> 1000 simultaneous tabs open with animated furrypr0n
<snap-l> And then Microsoft Communicator crashed when I logged into work
<snap-l> so I think my best bet would be to not upgrade today.
<snap-l> Just feels like a recipe for failure.
<snap-l> brousch: Maybe that's how you fill up memory on your machine
<snap-l> but not here. ;)
<brousch> oops
<greg-g> brousch: you have a windows machine also, or in a vm?
<greg-g> erm, snap-l ^
<snap-l> greg-g: Separate work machine
<brousch> i have a winxp vm
<brousch> and a winxp desktop at work
<snap-l> I have XP n a VM, but it's only because I was setting it up for JoDee, and moved it to her machine
<greg-g> gotcha, I've just been running it in a vm on my laptop as needed. Luckily I don't need to use Office Communicator all the time
<snap-l> yeah, unfortunately it's our IM of choice for work
<greg-g> yeah, I think we have the option here, but I don't know who actually uses it instead of gtalk
<snap-l> So, not a question of wanting to use it, as much as having to use it.
<greg-g> right right
<snap-l> greg-g: I'd check the closets of those who use it willingly for gimp masks and whips.
<snap-l> Oh dear god.
<snap-l> Just visited a corporate page that looks like 1998
<snap-l> edit_prop.gif
<snap-l> tables and everything
<brousch> get off my web site!
<jrwren> anyone know LVM well enough to recreate waht synology is doing with it with their hybrid raid setup?
<snap-l> jrwren: what what what?
<wolfger> what's wrong with tables?
<wolfger> Nothing.
<wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: when combined with .gif files that look like they came out of the same program that everyone used to make fancy buttons? Everything.
<wolfger> Also: upgrading to Natty, snap-l? Don't you mean "upgrading to Oneiric"? Natty's old.  ;-)
<snap-l> wolfger: You're right. What was I thinking?
<snap-l> Stable system? Pshaw.
<wolfger> As a prominent LoCo member, you should be alpha-testing
<wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> wolfger: No, you're right.
<snap-l> Hand me your machine. I'll alpha test there. ;
<wolfger> :-p[
<wolfger> I'll be doing my own alpha testing on my machine, tyvm
<snap-l> You'll do no such thing. You'll wait for the beta like everyone else. ;)
<wolfger> was going to upgrade last night, actually, but wifi issues struck me again and ticked me off
<snap-l> and then bitch when your wireless card tells you to stick it where the sun don't shune.
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> my wireless constantly tells me that anyway
<wolfger> so upgrading makes perfect sense
<wolfger> I'm hoping that by running alpha, I might actually get working wifi
<wolfger> and if I don't.... no worse than stable :-p
<snap-l> heh
<wolfger> and I'm booting KDE to the curb again, too. Installed it at penguicon and it's rubbish
<wolfger> Krashy McKrasherton is KDE's new name
<snap-l> Ugh, that sucks,
<wolfger> Kept trying to recognize my mouse as a display
<jjesse> wolfger lots of crashes?  natty runs fine for me on kde
<wolfger> because it was plugged into a hybrid port
<snap-l> That's funky.
<snap-l> What's a hybrid port? Something that can handle both USB and video?
<wolfger> tell me about it
<wolfger> "oh, somethings plugged in to your eSATA/USB port. It must be a monitor! Let me recognize it and bug you about which display you wish to use with a pop-up dialog box!"
<wolfger> Until I instructed the box to never appear again, I was getting like 20-30 of them at a time.
<jrwren> snap-l: synology is jst a custom linux with LVM. They have really nice wizards and stuff that basically let you add storage adhoc and let a single partition just keep growing, and get some redundancy.http://serverfault.com/questions/272776/how-to-do-the-equivalent-of-synology-hybrid-raid-on-linux-myself
<snap-l> That's really funky. I've never heard of the hybrid port, but it's a neat idea.
<wolfger> I suppose it is.
<snap-l> jrwren: Ah, kind of like Drobo's filesystem.
<jrwren> is it?
<wolfger> but I'd rather have a dedicated eSATA and a 3rd dedicated USB
<snap-l> or at least without the funky patented bits.
<wolfger> in case I ever have a need for eSATA
<snap-l> jrwren: http://arstechnica.com/business/raising-your-tech-iq/2011/03/drobo-review-1.ars
<jrwren> drobo is slow as shit though :(
<jrwren> snap-l: the end result appears like drobo's fs, but the means to achieve it are suggested to be very different in the synology
<snap-l> Yeah, no doubt.
<brousch> greg-g: who is this female you're referring me to that can help find more females?
<greg-g> brousch: he isn't female :) Asheesh is an awesome developer I met when I was an intern at CC back in 2008. He's working on increasing the involvement of women in FLOSS in boston/philly
<greg-g> jcastro would vouch for asheesh as well
<brousch> heh
<brousch> there are very few female geeks in grand rapids
<brousch> i've really only met 3 women who use linux
<greg-g> start reproducing
<greg-g> well, for you, continue
<brousch> i tried that, it came out a boy :P
<greg-g> hehe
<brousch> i don't usually try to actively find more women for the groups. i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Marry a physics geek, then you can turn them into a FLOSS geek. :)
<snap-l> i do love all of the amateur sociology that occurs in these types of discussions
<snap-l> It's like the female is a separate species.
<brousch> she is, strange and mysterious. prone to fits of hysteria
<greg-g> brousch: "i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come"
<greg-g> :P
<krondor> aye, I was once yelled at by my SO one day because she found herself telling coworkers about Linux and understanding computer conversations.  She was made she had been slowly plied into a nerd.
<greg-g> krondor: congrats!
<krondor> well she was always a nerd I guess, but medical nerds != CS nerds
<snap-l> medical nerds are a strange breed
<snap-l> It's like they pay grosser than gross with each other
<krondor> oh god yes, I like to pretend she just plays with puppies all day.  I can't even describe the dinner conversations...
<snap-l> And then the guy started to ... [I'm SAILING a-way!!!!]
<snap-l> and then ... [SET AN OPEN COURSE FO THE VIRGIN SEA]
<krondor> hmm, rstat.us licensed with WTFPL a new license to me which pretty much reads exactly as you would think it would; https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us/raw/be79740ed0f19b3a02e15dbcdbbdb8ca36509819/LICENSE
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> krondor: what does the detroit android group cover?
<_stink_> snap-l++
<krondor> brousch:  it's really broad right now.  Just trying to get android interested people in the same room regularly.  There's a couple guys that wanted to talk android dev, some want to talk hacks, some want just to talk phones/apps/tips
<brousch> i'm thinking of starting one in GR
<brousch> i should act soon while the grwebdev mobile dev meeting is fresh in people's minds
<krondor> the attendance to the first one wasn't that great, but it wasn't posted that far in advance.  I think we had 6 people?  Hoping this is a bit larger.
<brousch> the gr java group usually has 5 attendees. they had an andrid meeting and there were like 25 people
<krondor> wow that's pretty large, I was hoping eventually it might hit the teens and I'd be happy
<brousch> i was really surprised
<brousch> but then we're dutch over here, and android is cheap
<brousch> grandroid is a good name
 * wolfger pictures a bunch of senior citizens with Android phones...
<brousch> nice
<brousch> not grand-pa grand-roid
<brousch> wait, that is even worse
<_stink_> grandpa's-hemorrhoids -> grandrhoid!
<greg-g> oh lord
<wolfger> yeah, I also pondered the grand 'roid path...
<snap-l> Gr'android.
<snap-l> There's something good in there, but I'm not seeing it at the moment.
<snap-l> GRAndroid
<brousch> jjesse: what do you think, is grandroid a large hemorrhoid, your grandpa's hemorrhoid, or the grand rapids android development group?
<jjesse> lol
<jjesse> grand rapids android group?
<jjesse> no idea for sure though
<rick_h__> I need a new job, the stupid here is getting depressing
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> didn't you just move there?
<jrwren> I think a software engineers job is dealing with teh stupid. its the biggest part of the job.
<rick_h__> yea, a little over a year
<rick_h__> the problem is I was brought in to help fix the stupid I guess, and over the last year I've managed to exact 5% of the change planned/hoped for
<jrwren> is it a big org?
<rick_h__> the motivation for self and project improvement is just at such a detrimental low
<rick_h__> meh, 100-200 employees, dev team is 5 of us
<rick_h__> be everyone is put on their project islnads and no cross talk/etc
<brousch> the rest of the team is the issue?
<rick_h__> makes it near impossible to help upgrade the rest of the team
<rick_h__> so code never gets better, same stupid problems still exist, and the lack of motivatin on everyone's part to *fix* things is just not there
<rick_h__> "why should I learn more about python to speed up my data load that takes 8 hours to run?"
<jrwren> so no working together with the other 4?
<rick_h__> "Rather than fix my project's architecture I'd rather have my own git server so I can create a new project each time we need an installation of one"
<jrwren> sounds pretty defective. Its hard to steer teams into effectiveness
<rick_h__> jrwren: no, most iteraction is an hour a week during team meeting where I toss out links, examples, etc
<rick_h__> but no one ever reads, revisits, etc
<jrwren> ouch.
<rick_h__> at one point 3mo ago talked the boss into letting me pair with other devs 1 day a week
<rick_h__> it's not once happened in those 3mo
<jrwren> you should just do it.
<rick_h__> yea, but when you try you get the "no time for that" every time for months on end
<jrwren> taht isn't even a valid answer.
<jrwren> it takes no time.
<rick_h__> heh, welcome to my world
<jrwren> you will be working on the same thing as if you weren't paring.
<rick_h__> half the stuff I've even rewrote code for them
<rick_h__> but never gets integrated/read through
<rick_h__> and if I do get my redone code into their project, it does no good, they've not learned anything
<rick_h__> never look at it again
<rick_h__> there's a lack of will/incentive I guess
<brousch> have you discussed this with your boss?
<rick_h__> well, discussed the lack of progress
<rick_h__> thus the pairing stuff, but no, not that it's getting to the point that I just worry about my project and build myself my own island
<rick_h__> and that's why I'm debating starting looking again.
<jrwren> you can't help those who don't want to learn.
<jrwren> that is why I let my last job.
<rick_h__> I don't want to just make myself an island with my way of doing things and sticking through it
<rick_h__> yea, exactly. I know I'm bit of a glutton for punishment on that learning side
<rick_h__> but geeze, one year later and most of the testing, build server, automating, is all stuff I wrote
<rick_h__> eventually it'd be nice to get a chance to use code someone else wrote to fix a problem vs getting brought in to fix someone's problem lol
<rick_h__> meh, sorry, just ranting. Had a staff meeting today and people still complaining about same issues they had 6mo ago that I gave instructions on how to correct
<jrwren> oh the woes of being top dog
<jrwren> the real bummer about being top dog like that is the learning is all on you. you don't get to learn from others.
<jrwren> or even if your peers were equals you could converse adn learn, but it sounds like they aren't capable enough to even be your peer.
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I read stuff like the 'in the plex' and you see a lot out of these startups with very smart people and crave to work with people that know more than me
<rick_h__> fortunately, I'm nuts with learning/trying new stuff, but still, sometimes guidance from an experienced "been there/done that" would be awesome
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> or even just someone who is on teh same page as you.
<jrwren> problem is... going and joining a startup is usually a pay cut
<jrwren> so... priorities
<rick_h__> well yea, and kid, etc
<rick_h__> I've got cushy where I work from home, do more time with the kid
<rick_h__> the wife's the doc that works all the hours
<rick_h__> yea, oh well, eventually figure something out. No job is permanent as I've learned
<rick_h__> https://twitter.com/#!/niallohiggins/status/73063263386083328 discuss
<wolfger> "corp firewall sucks" is the extent of my discussion on any Twitter link
<rick_h__> ouch
<rick_h__> "database is the last thing that is going to be fixed in the cloud" - so true, I/O on EC2 and friends is just awful today. #MongoSF
<rick_h__> oops, wrong one
<rick_h__> "caches are a workaround for databases that aren't fast enough" -- Dwight Merriman, @mongodb #MongoSF
<rick_h__> ^^ is the one I found interesting
<wolfger> I'll comment on the wrong one first.... Last thing going to be fixed, but first thing that needs to be. :-p
<wolfger> Cache.... I don't think cache is a workaround. Cache is a tool. A smart one, that should be used regardless of whether your database is "fast enough" or not.
<snap-l> Those MongoDB guys are so cheeky
<snap-l> thinking they have the silver bullet
<wolfger> ...unless your db needs are so ridiculously lean that cache is overkill, that is
<snap-l> Well, they have a point, to a certain extent
<snap-l> MongoDB is really fast at the database level
<snap-l> So it could obviate the need for things like Memcache
<snap-l> I can't give a concrete example of why I feel that statement is wrong, but it just feels wrong to make an absolute statement like that.
<rick_h__> because caching is used all over the world of tech and is useful vs a sign of a problem
<rick_h__> I mean sure, a CDN is a sign that you don't have ms response time from NYC to SF
<rick_h__> but it doesn't mean it's bad
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think you nailed what I'm thinking
<rick_h__> and even with mongodb, what's an index but a cache of data?
<rick_h__> it's a stupid statement meant to inflame people at a conference about a tool that wants to sell itself as pure awesome in a jar
<snap-l> bingo
<rick_h__> in my ever so humble opinion :)
<snap-l> That's what puts me off on MongoDB, that arrogance
<snap-l> Pretty sure if you turned off all of the bits ensuring that your data is safely written to disk, you could achieve blistering performance.
<snap-l> ... with just about any DB.
<snap-l> At least I can be pretty sure with PostgreSQL that the data is somewhere.
<rick_h__> you can always work at near the performance of youd disk
<rick_h__> /youd/your
<snap-l> and believe me, I've seen PostgreSQL in very unhappy states
<binbrain> and, for those of that haven't seen, take a moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs
<snap-l> binbrain: Seriously? :)
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GpOfwbFRcs
<binbrain> "I suggest you pipe your data to /dev/null, it will be very fast"
<binbrain> lol
<snap-l> "How the hell do software developers get groupies?"
<snap-l> Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_9H1WPV2Ws&NR=1
<jrwren> MongoDB is just a giant cache.
<jrwren> it just happens ot flush to disk... maybe... sometimes... if you are lukcy
<brousch> miro syncs with android? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Miro-4.0-with-Android-Sync
<brousch> ftr, i hate linux magazine and it's damn pdf issue for the full article
<brousch> want to read the article? 109MB download!
<snap-l> Yeah, I saw that Miro 4.0 was ou
<snap-l> t
<jrwren> wtf is miro?
<brousch> really?
<brousch> like a feed reader for video
<snap-l> and audio
<snap-l> It's a podcatcher
<jrwren> oh that.
<jrwren> that is still around?
<wolfger> Yeah. Used to be "Democracy" a long time ago
<wolfger> I absolutely love it for the NASA videos
<brousch> i love it for pycon videos
<jrwren> meego 1.2 released 4 days ago... also... i like turtles.
<wolfger> wheaton!
<rick_h__> ok, this node.js is going to do some cool stuff I think
<jrwren> node as in node?
<rick_h__> node as in the js server side framework
<rick_h__> peeking at using it do replace a dns/email checking service we run
<brousch> jrwren: meego is bleh
<jrwren> that is what I was saying. :)
<jrwren> yeah, node is pretty damned cool.
<brousch> turtles are cool
<rick_h__> for stuff like this, dns checks, with lots of time spent in i/o, can really crank the req/s
<rick_h__> throw the concurrent connections at it
<brousch> js is finally taking over the serverside too?
<rick_h__> yea, working on it in some cases
<brousch> damnit, i'm finally getting ok at python
<rick_h__> well it's not replacing all python, but for this one off corner server thing I think it'll be good/cool
<jrwren> as long as it is blocking IO :)
<jrwren> you can't magically speed up disks :)
<brousch> greg-g: do we need to do anything for this? http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/
<greg-g> brousch: yeah
<greg-g> I've been swamped lately and haven't gotten to it at night, I need to solicit some help with writing some team reports
<brousch> email it to the list
<brousch> we'll crowd-source that crap ;)
<greg-g> heck yeah, will do
<brousch> this looks like something i should read http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html
<rick_h__> it sounds interesting
<rick_h__> but more as a light 'for fun' read I think
<snap-l> I added that to the next IRC meeting (the team reports, reapproval, etc)
<brousch> i am really poor at overall organization
<greg-g> snap-l: thanks
<snap-l> I'm not great at it either. :)
<rick_h__> woot! got sign off to keep working on this as a node.js project
<brousch> did they groan?
<brousch> more new technology?
<rick_h__> yea, there was some of that
<rick_h__> and he got taking it too far "well, but what about this app and that app"
<rick_h__> but I kept it down "for this use case, it's the best answer."
<rick_h__> "all I'm talking about is for this use case"
<rick_h__> besides, it fun to see req/s go by at 500+ :)
<snap-l> rick_h__: Awesomesauce.
<rick_h__> and with that I'll head home on a higher note
<snap-l> Well, it looks like TweetDeck is officially bought by Twitter.
<snap-l> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/may/24/twitter-to-buy-tweetdeck
<snap-l> Oh fucking hell: http://slashdot.org/story/11/05/24/2010222/Microsoft-Kills-Skype-for-Asterisk
<snap-l> Apparently I'm too stupid to use Java.
<snap-l> so, fuck it.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/hizdd/ides_for_wsgi_development/ <- I think I just heard rick_h__ die a little inside.
<Blazeix> oh, man, working remotely via WinSCP?
<Blazeix> shoot me now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-25
<rick_h__> snap-l: heh, oh well
<greg-g> ugh, the infrastructure for this Team Reporting stuff is cumbersome... *grumbles as he gets back to work on it*
<snap-l> greg-g: I take it you're playing with the wiki. ;)
<greg-g> indeed, a bit
 * greg-g grumbles
<greg-g> ok, sent to the list the instructions on how to help. Man that was a pain setting that all up
<greg-g> click edit.. wait... type type type... click preview.. wait....... click save.. wait............................ INTERNAL SERVER ERROR!
<snap-l> yeah, I saw a few server errors while looking at the diffs
<greg-g> ok, now to the other work I should do tonight
<rick_h__> man, why does tornado always seem half baked whenever I go look into it
<greg-g> oh yeah, I/we should add the CHC/Ubuntu Hours to the reports
<greg-g> dangit, forgot the link on that last tweet/dent
<snap-l> Man, when rick_h__ and I get to talkin', we really talk. :)
<rick_h__> snap-l: heh, yea I told you we were bad
<snap-l> With music, the show is just shy of an hour
<rick_h__> heh, good job. I didn't think we'd come in under an hour
<snap-l> Call it the "extreme blabbermouth edition".
<ukonvasara> what is everyone's opinion of Unity in 11.04?
<snap-l> I like it
<ukonvasara> I like what they did with it but it doesn't seem to be as customizable to me
<ukonvasara> I would have rather seen them go with Gnome-shell
<snap-l> Different goals, overall
<greg-g> ukonvasara: I think it'll be interesting to see how things pan out over the next year. Really, it is an exciting time!
<snap-l> GNOME Shell was about GNOME 3, while UNITY was trying to extend the life of GNOME 2 while at the same time removing a lot of the crufty build-up
<ukonvasara> snap-l good point
<ukonvasara> I am not abandoning Unity all together but it did make me look more into KDE
<ukonvasara> ^since Gnome-shell does not work right with 11.04
<jjesse_> anyone got any links, books or a guide for learning soalris?
<snap-l> jjesse_: Cyanide capsules?
<Blazeix> Step 1) Assume linux knowledge will transfer. Step 2) Actually use a solaris system. Step 3) Get frustrated and defenestrate it.
<snap-l> Step 4) See if there's money in the budget to replace all of the Solaris boxes with Linux machines.
<snap-l> Note that steps 3 and 4 are not the same. ;)
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/208718 <- Yay, this bug hit the statute of limitations!
<rick_h__> greg-g: :( on that tweet there man
<rick_h__> need a radar alarm system
<greg-g> rick_h__: no kidding, or just be better about checking the radar first thing when I wake up :/
<brousch> a smell a new mobile app
<greg-g> yeah, the only setting is "What is the minimum time needed to bike home?" 15, 30, 45, 1hr
<greg-g> then an alarm goes off when it detects rain coming you way within that time
<brousch> the "detecting rain at your location is the hard part"
<greg-g> indeed
<rick_h__> brousch: bah, image collision detection based on weather maps, that's easy stuff
<rick_h__> gamers do it all the time
<brousch> perhaps, but how do you do it for an hour into the future?
<rick_h__> start out by cheating, mapping 'usual' movement patterns for a location
<rick_h__> for instance, around here storms tend to travel straight w-e
<rick_h__> other places it'd probably be more N-S or something
<greg-g> it would definitely be a fun learning project
<greg-g> you'd basically be doing what meteorologists did 10 years ago on supercomputers :)
<brousch> hyperlocal weather forecasts
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> but you'd only have to do it for locations people are actually at/using the app
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h__> which is a bit intersting
<greg-g> brousch: get on it! :)
<rick_h__> ok, let's go get some funding, head to techrunch disrupt
<brousch> too much math for me
<greg-g> I could probably pseudocode the math for ya ;)
<brousch> i think we'll need nate oostendorp to parse the radar images for us
<rick_h__> now we just need to figure out how to make it more mass market
<rick_h__> not sure we're going to get $$ selling a mobile app to bikers :P
<brousch> why not? they have tons of spare cash due to not buying gas
<rick_h__> I hear some don't even have smart phones
<brousch> but really, such an app would have a huge userbase
<brousch> any outdoor venue or event
<rick_h__> only an hour out?
<snap-l> And that's when you learn the intricasies of radar imaging. ;)
<rick_h__> I think they hit up good old weather reporting
<brousch> hm, should i head for the golf course now?
<brousch> do i need an umbrella for the baseball game?
<snap-l> Just because there's a pixel over your location doesn't mean you have rain there, and vice versa.
<greg-g> rick_h__: :P
<brousch> snap-l: i imagine we'd take animated radar images and project their path an hour into the future, then compare that with the location in question
<greg-g> (re: the not having smart phones)
<rick_h__> greg-g: :)
<brousch> so now we need an sms alert?
<snap-l> brousch: Also need to take into account bird flocking patterns that distrupt radar
<snap-l> and give some very interesting images
<snap-l> We need to simplify the problem
<brousch> if someone had the time and inclination to tackle this, i think they could make money
<snap-l> Just send a SMS message to greg-g every 5 minutes asking him if he's checked the weather
<brousch> i don't think he'll pay for that
<greg-g> I would cancel my cellphone service
<brousch> and buy  a smartphone?
<greg-g> yeah yeah, I'll do that someday, don't push :)
<brousch> if you aren't willing to pay $70/mo for a smartphone, how can we expect you to pay $5/mo for hyperlocalweatheralerts?
<greg-g> if I didn't have to pay $70/mo for a smartphone data plan, I'd be more likely to spend $5 on a hyperlocalweatheralertawesomesaucesystem
<_stink_> that's version 2
<brousch> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.mtn
<rick_h__> and like all good ideas...
<rick_h__> traffic, that one was a winner idea
<rick_h__> there's your non-biker segment
<brousch> thugh it's not clear if they just send alerts for thunderstorms and such
<brousch> greg-g needs to know if it's going to sprinkle so he can put on his galoshes
<greg-g> lol "$4.99 Per Year Crushing the competitors services that only work in 1 Zipcode!" from https://market.android.com/details?id=com.torwarn.app
<brousch> i think that one only does severe weather
<brousch> we can still own this market
<greg-g> I think there is something miss, yeah.
<brousch> personally, i use weatherbug which has an hourly forecast based on my location
<brousch> city local
<brousch> but it has radar and even local webcams
<greg-g> oh yeah! weatherbug! that is still around? I remember than from 2000
<brousch> i hated it and banned it on work pcs, but it's really nice on android
<rick_h__> and they were one of the apps marked as uploading phone and device info to sell to advertisors
<brousch> heh
<brousch> nothing's free!
<greg-g> "no such thing as a free lunch" man I hate that idiom
<brousch> oh man, even greg-g is being replaced by robots http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/05/24/2232224/Robots-Retrieve-Your-Books-At-U-Chicagos-81-Million-Library
<greg-g> :P
<greg-g> not me, no robot can do what I do, yet.
<brousch> isn't that what librarians do? ;)
<wolfger> I thought they just shushed you....
<rick_h__> reminder CHC tonight everyone, long 3 hr edition, see you at 7pm Blazeix snap-l _stink_ widox
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> Well, I think I'm going to rewrite Piddlepodder (my podcatcher) in Python
<snap-l> Miro is starting to annoy me with their ads.
<brousch> but but, miro syncs to android!
<snap-l> And the Perl code is pretty hairy
<snap-l> And I need a little knock-around project or I'll go insane. ;)
<brousch> bookie?
<brousch> you also have lococast and omc
<brousch> can someone running natty try something for me?
<brousch> go to http://pbskids.com/ and try to click on one of the games
<greg-g> so, the flash in Fx4 on Maverick completely hates that site (I can't see anything, even though all the flash content "loads")
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, those are cooking along. But I need something that'll give me an excuse to do more with sqlalchemy that isn't already rolling
<brousch> greg-g: thanks, it was mostly broken for me too
<brousch> my kid killed the old macbook he was using, so i hooked him up with ubuntu. he was very disappointed
<snap-l> lucid flash is working (at least I could get the collection jar to do something useful)
<brousch> on the upside, xubuntu natty looks really nice
<brousch> maybe i'll drop it back to lts then
<snap-l> Here comes the rain
<snap-l> greg-g: alert alert
<greg-g> snap-l: lol, thanks buddy!
<snap-l> And there's a tornado warning west of us
<_stink_> RAPTURE
<snap-l> Sadly, the NOAA has not issued a rapture watch for our counties.
<snap-l> I mean tornado watch south-west of us
<_stink_> that's because no one will know the day or time.
<jrwren> snap-l: now I have anie lenox in my head
<jrwren> or eurithmics.
<jrwren> here comes the rain again...
<wolfger> falling on your head like a DDR3?
<wolfger> falling on your head like a new e-Motion (I'm sure that's got to be an actual product name somewhere....)
<snap-l> jrwren: That wasn't my intention, but thanks for sharing.
<snap-l> Now I have it stuck in my head
<snap-l> Isn't an ear-worm like a cold? (You can't get rid of it until you give it to someone else)
<jrwren> how do ya'll manage your vim PWD ?
<jrwren> e.g. if you pop between projects do you start a new vim instance or do you cd in vim to the new project? How do you mix this with using vim --remote to send files to your existing vim instance?
<rick_h__> I use workit to jump into my virtualenv/project path, auto source my virtualenv
<rick_h__> and then I use gv to start my vim window
<jrwren> i feel like maybe I wish there were a way to tell vim about a project root
<rick_h__> which uses the local python
<rick_h__> the workit command auto dumps me into the project root
<jrwren> gv?  gvim?  gv to me is ghostview
<rick_h__> and I open up nerdtree so everything is done from the project root
<rick_h__> helps with fabfile, etc as well
<rick_h__> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc#L350 use that then so that each window is rooted to it's location
<rick_h__> makes things like :!git add % and such easy
<jrwren> zomg #Lnnn  i had no idea... github FTW
<jrwren> oh yes, I think I like that.
<jrwren> ty rick_h__
<rick_h__> np
<jrwren> how do you intergrate with system clipboard or do you really "+gP to paste if you have copied from web for example
<jrwren> i'm thinking of using ctrl-v to "paste" since ctrl-shift-v is also visual block mode
<rick_h__> no, I have ,y and ,p
<rick_h__> as my yank/paste from clipboards
<rick_h__> ctrl-v is too powerful for column visual mode
<rick_h__> I use that a ton
<rick_h__> fixing indenting, quick replaces, etc
<jrwren> i like those.
<jrwren> I'll use those :)
<jrwren> I'm all for customization, but its too bad vim doesn't have a lot of things like this as default
<jrwren> a great default that is also customizable would be better than no default IMO
<jrwren> or I guess a bad default in this case with '+gP
<jrwren> see, I even typed it wrong there... ' v. "
<snap-l> Well, worse is that CTRL-V doesn't behave the same on Linux as it does under Windows
<snap-l> CTRL-V is column visual mode, but under Windows, it's paste
<snap-l> drives me insane
<snap-l> Well, not insane, but to the insane district, with plenty of shops and free parking.
<jrwren> just found ctrl-6 in vim... i'm forever n00b
<jrwren> snap-l: ctrl-v is block visual for me in wondows.
<jrwren> are you running easy mode or something?
<Blazeix> snap-l: I think the default gvim on windows ships with windows compatibility, which does the ctrl+v funkiness
<Blazeix> if you turn that off in your __vimrc, ctrl+v is visual mode.
<snap-l> Blazeix: Ah, OK. Thank you. :)
<snap-l> I need to copy over my .vimrc over to Windows, but haven't done so
<snap-l> mostly because I rarely use vim under Windows (rarely use Windows for anything other than e-mail and non-dev work foo)
<jrwren> anyone know how i can show older releases on this page? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2
<snap-l> like 2.0 or 1.3?
<rick_h__> where's waldo when you need him: http://jessenoller.com/2011/05/25/pycon-everybody-pays/
<jrwren> no, like karmic
<Blazeix> jrwren: like this? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/apache2
<greg-g> warning, rain is imminent. leave soon or you will get wet.
 * wolfger leaves work, tells boss greg-g said so.
<jrwren> Blazeix: yes, like that, but I didn't see that link on that page.
<jrwren> I had to click a newer release and replace the version with "karmic"
<snap-l> jrwren: It was near the bottom of the page you linked.
<snap-l> Er, not for karmic, though
<snap-l> Karmic isn't supported anymore.
<jrwren> right, yet the karmic lp page still exists... but how would I find it?
<snap-l> I think that's the idea; they don't want you to easily find it. ;)
<snap-l> because it's not supported.
<greg-g> warning, it is now too late to leave, you are already wet. Now you must wait X hours
<snap-l> My back yard is a swamp
<snap-l> Sump pump is working, but the ground is super-saturated.
<greg-g> crazy thunder here, and it just started to downpour again
<greg-g> snap-l: you are subscribed to all wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/* pages right? Have you seen any edits on the team reports? I don't know if I am also subscribed in the same way
<snap-l> Haven't paid close attention, but I've seen some wiki edits fly by
<brousch> greg-g: i saw some mentions of me on those pages from google alert
<greg-g> brousch: :) yeah, I liked to your blog posts
<greg-g> linked*
<brousch> google alert was right on top of it
<greg-g> cool, I find that my tweets are found days later, while my dents are found almost instantly by GoogAlerts
<brousch> well there's only like 1 new dent/second while there are millions of tweets to sort through
<greg-g> brousch: bah! :P I've also discovered by tweeter's search doesn't pick up my tweets. Like if you did a hashtag search, I don't show up. THEY'RE CENSORING ME!
<brousch> probably
<brousch> greg-g: oh geez, supposed to fill out team reports every month?
<greg-g> brousch: yeah
<greg-g> *exactly*
<greg-g> hopefully the work to streamline the process will get somewhere now
<snap-l> I hope to God there's a streamlining approach
<snap-l> because the wikis are frankly a pain in the ass
<snap-l> Something like attaching to a team meeting or event would be handy.
<greg-g> you know, we have this handy new system that plans and even records events, the LoCo Directory. I htink the reporting should be dang near automatic from that
<snap-l> ding ding ding ding
<snap-l> Drives me batty when people ask for reports that can easily be tied to another system.
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2011/05/25/seeeduino-adk/
<snap-l> I think I just squee'd a bit
<brousch> ew
<Blazeix> jrwren: I got to that page by clicking 'full publishing history,' then I clicked 'karmic'
<Blazeix> it's sort of coming at it sidewise, though
<snap-l> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/opensource/how-gnome-3-is-besting-ubuntu-unity/2551
<snap-l> I'm downloading Fedora to give it the ol' test in a VM
<snap-l> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/fedora-15-alpha-wont-install-inside-virtualbox-4-0-4-a-869879/ <- Wow, and we say some people in Ubuntu are caustic
<_stink_> yikes
<_stink_> the guy is from Ann Arbor, too
<_stink_> i thought everyone in Ann Arbor was a kindly tree-hugger
<brousch> there is a small ring of gun-toting, meat-eating, angry, michigan militia type
<brousch> they are even grumpier than most because they're surrounded by hippies
<_stink_> poor guys, yeah
<brousch> amazon app atore is pretty nice
<brousch> store
<brousch> i'm going to try a cat in the hat app and super why
<jrwren> Blazeix: I couldn't find the full publishing history link.
<jrwren> wow... John VV is a d.b.
<jrwren> i think an even better question is... why do people use linuxquestions.com :)
<jrwren> brousch: meat eating??? dude... AA is full of meat eaters.
<jrwren> the farmers market sells local grown hippie meat.
<jrwren> does greg-g eat meat? if he does... well... i bet he'd love some farmers market meat.
<TeamXlink> http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/sys/2359079690.html Is this worthwhile?
<_stink_> $20 is too much imo
<TeamXlink> Really
<_stink_> i guess it depends on how much you 'need' it.
<TeamXlink> It looks like it comes with with the motherboard, I'm emailing the poster too see what type it is.
<_stink_> in that case, maybe.
<TeamXlink> From the picutre, it looks like it has 4-6 ram slots and some pci slots, maybe agp.
<TeamXlink> I'm not sure.
<TeamXlink> The case looks like a standard ATX case, which I should be able to use if/when I build a new/another pc.
<jrwren> rick_h__: so the lcd with the buf change, does that read a tags file? what if your tags file is a few dirs up? or do you manually load tags?
<jrwren> +1 does not look worth $20, but you can be nice and take it from him for free and then recycle it instead of letting it go to landfill, or repurpose the case
<rick_h__> jrwren: so two partst
<rick_h__> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc#L157
<rick_h__> and then to keep my tags up to date, I auto run the ctags command as part of workit
<rick_h__> so whenever I start on a project, it reruns tags on that project
<snap-l> sip:snapl@iptel.org
<jrwren> yeah, I'm fine with rerunning ctags
<rick_h__> but yea, that line in my .vimrc says to hit up parent dirs
<snap-l> Playing with sip clients, and actually have them working
<jrwren> holy shit... it will search parents for tags??? HOT!!!
<snap-l> apparently something changed.
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I keep all my tag files in the project root
<jrwren> me too
<brousch> ok, i'm trying to use my first amazon ec2 instance, and i can't figure out how to connect
<brousch> i have a keypair, and the instance has an ip address
<brousch> it is aparently running
<krondor> brousch:  did you configure your security group
<brousch> it gave me a group
<brousch> default group
<krondor> did you give it an elastic ip
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> is there a firewall blocking ssh maybe?
<krondor> you confirmed your security group has 22 tcp and 0.0.0.0/0 sourceefined
<krondor> source defined that is
<krondor> can't hurt to allow your outbound as well
<brousch> i added port 22, no change
<brousch> wait, ubuntu doesn't come with openssh-server installed
<brousch> how do i install it?
<brousch> bah, fuckme
<brousch> i was using the wrong ip address
<brousch> i'm in now
<krondor> :)
<snap-l> flood warnings for Macomb and Wayne
<snap-l> be careful out there, everyone
<_stink_> yeah, 696 closed at least one way (Westbound, i think) at Greenfield
<brousch> this is fun
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Vn1C7eUzA
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_g8VBhwBw
<widox> should be a fun drive to CHC, woohoo
<snap-l> http://coderwall.com/lmorchard
<snap-l> widox: Yeah, I'm wondering if I should borrow my parents canoe.
<snap-l> http://coderwall.com/mitechie
<snap-l> Interesting. :)
<snap-l> I think this will be more successful than Ohloh was.
<greg-g> snap-l: except, the whole bound to github thing :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-26
<snap-l> Yeah, there is that.
<greg-g> whoa, what is this? three wiki page saves with no server errors?!?!?!
<rick_h__> lol, progress!
<brousch_> my irc is in th cloud now
<rick_h__> yay
<brousch_> irccloud.com
<snap-l> Woooooto
<snap-l> I'm changing the header for the Michigan team
<snap-l> Now has links to the new loco directory for events and meetings, both upcoming and prior
<snap-l> Although the 2010 and Prior link is a misnomer
<snap-l> Not sure what to call it, since it has more meeting foo
<snap-l> Just asked a question on the loco directory site for how to add synopsis of meetings to the individual meetings
<wolfger>  <boggle>
<wolfger> I just ran across this e-mail sig: "Anything I write within these forums is EXPRESSLY my property.  If you wish to copy or use it else where you MUST have my EXPRESS permission to do so."
<brousch> heh
<brousch> good luck enforcing that
<ColonelPanic001> I'm going to add "&copy; 2011, My Name" to my email sig
<wolfger> well, technically all e-mail are protected by copyright
<wolfger> you don't need to post notice for that to be true
<ColonelPanic001> Good, they need to be reminded
 * greg-g waves from Oakland U
<wolfger> but wtf is the point?
<wolfger> unless you are e-mailing literary works
<rick_h_> greg-g: woo, howdy
<ColonelPanic001> "All rights reserved". "Copyright violators will be sued according to current guidelines, which suggest about $100,000 per word"
<wolfger> and wouldn't Google et al be guilty, since the *default* behavior of virtually any mail client is to quote the entire text of the e-mail you're responding to?
<wolfger> LOL. $100k per word? You would make the very best professional authors jealous
<wolfger> and make intelligent people laugh at you
<ColonelPanic001> I'm just going by what the courts have upheld for the RIAA.
<ColonelPanic001> Argue with them
<wolfger> that's music, that's different
<brousch> ok, so apparently i'm an idiot. i thought when i shut down my ec2 instance that the ebs store would stick around so i could use it again
<ColonelPanic001> nope. My email are treasures.
<wolfger> you're not just paying for words, you're paying for (ahem) talent and composition
<ColonelPanic001> You dare say my emails lack talent and composition?'
<ColonelPanic001> I'm going to sue you for defamation.
<wolfger> so to claim RIAA damages are "per word" is ludicrous and suggests that instrumental selections are free to copy
<ColonelPanic001> Also, all lines to this channel I've sent are copyrighted, so don't go showing this to people
<wolfger> tis true...
<ColonelPanic001> no it doesn't. I never said instrumental parts weren't also composed and had talent
<ColonelPanic001> I just said my emails did, too
<wolfger> channel logging infringes my copyright
<wolfger> greg-g owes us money
<ColonelPanic001> you better turn it off, all of you
<ColonelPanic001> or I'll start suing IRC nicks. If they can sue an ip address, I can sue a nick and hostmask
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you claimed RIAA was paid 100k per word. Instrumentals have no words.
<ColonelPanic001> I just claimed to be using their guidelines. There's some... interpretation... involved.
<wolfger> heh
<greg-g> you were warned and gave your implicit permission by joining the channel, seeing the /topic, and not leaving
<greg-g> wolfger: ^
<greg-g> if TOSs are enforceable, so is a /topic ;)
<ColonelPanic001> CRAP
<wolfger> the /topic simply informs me of you infringement
<ColonelPanic001> I mean, YEAH
<wolfger> I've not agreed to it
<ColonelPanic001> WHAT HE SAID.
<greg-g> wolfger: you have a choice to leave
<ColonelPanic001> leave it to the copyright nerd to ruin my new business plan of suing thousands of IRC users
 * ColonelPanic001 shakes fist
<wolfger> You need to put it in /topic as a TOS. "By participating in this channel, you agree to......"
<ColonelPanic001> the topic must be a full legal document. Is there a char limit on topics?
<wolfger> what does it take to get a politician to rewrite copyright law to be more sensible?
<wolfger> I mean, aside from being a (ahem) generous multi-billion-dollar industry?
<wolfger> :-p
<greg-g> oh, wolfger, I'm in the same room at Oakland U where you presented on Bug Triaging way back in the day!
<wolfger> It's scary that you remember which room that was
<greg-g> my mind is like a trap
<greg-g> bloody with sharp edges
<wolfger> my mind is like a sieve
<ColonelPanic001> I can't think of a good analogy for my mind
<snap-l> If you think your words are too valuable to be shared, please just shut up now and save us the trouble. ;)
<snap-l> I'm here to share ideas, not listen to self-important assholes. ;)
<brousch> ah, i was supposed to stop the instance, not terminate it
<snap-l> greg-g: Did you see my header changes?
<brousch> smoser: you deal with ubuntu amis on ec2?
<smoser> i do
<brousch> how do i find the official one in the giant list of amis?
<brousch> there's like 6000 images, most of them say testing or milestone
<brousch> i'm looking for a 64 bit lucid server ami
<rick_h_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide and http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/ is what I use
<brousch> so you upload your own?
<rick_h_> no, those give you the names
<jrwren> oh yeah, burn all your $$$ on uploading. :)
<jrwren> it costs like $1 to upload your own, ;]
<rick_h_> http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/lucid/current/
<brousch> ah, i see now
<brousch> and clicking on the one i want goes out to the console for me. brilliant!
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> now i just have to remember to stop my instance instead of terminating it
<rick_h_> good plan
<rick_h_> or make your instances just scriptable builds
<rick_h_> so that you can terminate and rebuild via scripts
<rick_h_> so that you can easily recover, load in a new region, or fire up multiple instances
<brousch> i think i'll learn how to do it the hard way first
<rick_h_> that is the hard way, so good plan
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, saw that
<brousch> oh nice, that daily one is completely up to date already
<wolfger> snap-l: I'm anti-copyright... I *want* people to copy and spread my opinions :-)
<snap-l> greg-g: Any thoughts on the change, or is now not a good time. ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: ok, i want to learn the manual method first :P
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, most people do, and then never get around to the right way
<brousch> i guess it would depend on how often i end up using this
<rick_h_> well just warning is all
<greg-g> snap-l: kind of busy, but, maybe a bit too long/tall? I was trying to figure out the best way to be complete, but not unbalanced
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, same thought here
<snap-l> OK, I updated it so it's not as tall
<greg-g> cool
<snap-l> I think I'm going to add a new agenda item to decommission google calendar
<snap-l> since it seems that the calendar is working ow.
<snap-l> now
<greg-g> awesome, just use the LD?
<snap-l> Yeah
<greg-g> sounds good to me, fewer moving pieces the better
<snap-l> Yep
<ColonelPanic001> oh, that's why greg-g is at OU
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot about that conference
<ColonelPanic001> I am sadly not there
<ColonelPanic001> although I hear some of the fruits of my labor may have been talked about.
<_stink_> oh, that one
<_stink_> right
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, that one
<ColonelPanic001> https://twitter.com/#!/kimcallery/status/73766419409534976
<ColonelPanic001> wonder if she meant "mobile site", or if they actually did talk about the mobile app
<ColonelPanic001> I presume the former, because I don't see how they'd be able to talk about usage.
<ColonelPanic001> meh
<jrwren> what is going on at OU?
<ColonelPanic001> http://www2.oakland.edu/elis/conference.cfm
<snap-l> greg-g: heh, JoDee will be out at OU for class / work.
<wolfger> snap-l: boo! hiss! Keep gcal!
<jrwren> greg-g: does ken still work at OU
<snap-l> wolfger: you'll still be able to have an ical feed.
<snap-l> jrwren: No, he doesn't, iirc.
 * wolfger is dubious...
<wolfger> I've yet to see an iCal that actually worked well
<snap-l> wolfger: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical
<greg-g> jrwren: I think he moved on
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome
<snap-l> Add that feed to your Google Calendar.
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: mobile dev?
<jrwren> i should drop him an email.
<greg-g> snap-l: when is she here? she should come to lunch in a bit and chat!
<greg-g> she would like this crowd, i think
<snap-l> I'm not sure when she's showing up there.
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: yeah, I've written/write the WSU mobile app for Android and iPhone
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: awesome, then you should have been here!
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: yeah, I'd liked to have, but meh.
<snap-l> I wish conference calls had some volume compression
<snap-l> some folks are lound as fuck, and the rest are quiet
<wolfger> snap-l: "processed 32 events, successfully imported 31 events".... I remain dubious
<rick_h_> http://www.imagescape.com/blog/small-and-fun-employee-benefit/ kind of cool
<wolfger> MDLUG and WashLUG meetings not on the iCal... not sure if that's intentional
<rick_h_> pretty much :P
<rick_h_> there is only one true LUG!
<wolfger> :p
<snap-l> wolfger: So add them. :)
<greg-g> wolfger: other non-loco events don't fit, logicially, in our loco directory listing, unless we're doing something there
<snap-l> I don't know when they are.
<wolfger> CPL hack day not on iCal or gCal, despite being promoted on mailing list...
<wolfger> snap-l: you'd know if you used gCal :-)
<greg-g> wolfger: good point, I can make you an admin on loco.ubuntu.com to add it for us
<wolfger> and nothing on iCal past July 3
<snap-l> wolfger: that's because I'm lazy.
<greg-g> wolfger: check what is in the loco directory listing for us, the ical is the export of that
<greg-g> wolfger: what are we missing post july 3rd?
<wolfger> but not lazy enough to leave a perfectly good gCal alone?
<wolfger> greg-g: everything
<snap-l> Wow, I forgot that I used a rather lewd forum name on the Ubuntu Forums.
<greg-g> wolfger: examples?
<snap-l> There should be IRC meetings to the end of the year.
<wolfger> CHC, MDLUG, MUG, CHC again
<greg-g> those aren't in the loco directory for a reason
<snap-l> UH:CHC is only up to June
<wolfger> CHC, WashLUG, CHC
<greg-g> if you want those listed in a gcal, start a "South East Michigan FLOSS community calendar" :)
<snap-l> They have been in gCal prior.
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> we need to talk about this, I guess :)
<snap-l> Yeah, definitely
<wolfger> ok, looks like the next irc meeting is listed on iCal
<greg-g> what we want to get from this calendar, who/what we want to promote
<greg-g> etc
<wolfger> Meeting agenda for Sunday IRC :-)
<greg-g> wolfger: please add your thoughts somewhere, in case you can't make it
<wolfger> sure
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/78/detail/ Item #1
<snap-l> er, #3
<greg-g> thanks, snap-l
<snap-l> np
<brousch> we have a west michigan groups and events calendar
<brousch> damnitall. an old mod_wsgi bug is killing django on lucid
<rick_h_> hah! django and wsgi, I laugh
<brousch> why is that funny?
<rick_h_> sorry, guess I've just seen the whole track record of django and wsgi tring to get together to play nice...from the "week don't need no stinkin wsgi" to current times
<brousch> what else is there?
<brousch> besides wsgi :P
<rick_h_> heh, now you say that
<rick_h_> things weren't always so
<brousch> blah, this thing is little. i will try flask for it
<brousch> see if that plays better
 * _stink_ does Wayne's World dream sequence hands thing for rick_h_ to tell the story
<brousch> i had good luck with mod_python. i was sad to see it die
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> that thing was years over due to die
<brousch> it worked!
<brousch> lunch time
<rick_h_> that was a fast port to flask :P
<snap-l> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10865031#post10865031 <- I really hope they change my username. ;)
<snap-l> Though frankly, if they deleted the forum account, I wouldn't be upset in the least.
<wolfger> or the entire forum?
<brousch> wolfger++
<rick_h_> that won't work. I've been trying to do that for years :P
<snap-l> qq for the sqlalchemy folks (well, maybe not so quick)
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/325/
<snap-l> I want to use the Show class as a (for lack of a better word) "normal class"
<snap-l> ie: have methods for listing shows, adding shows, et.
<rick_h_> don't
<snap-l> rick_h_: OK, that's the feeling I'm getting. ;)
<rick_h_> for every model file you creat, I strongly suggest creating a matching Manager class. I tend to just append Mgr to the class name
<rick_h_> if the method deals with the current instance of the object, it's part of the main sqlalchemy object
<rick_h_> if it deals with lists, or any number of instances (like a get_list method, etc) it goes on the Mgr class
<brousch> rick_h_: you have an example of that?
<snap-l> Yeah, I'd like to see that.
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/JswXe
<rick_h_> see the top there, Tag and TagMgr
<snap-l> Ah, OK.
<rick_h_> Tag has no real methods on it
<snap-l> I was browsing that code last night, but it didn't click on what you were doing
<rick_h_> but TagMgr has the static methods that work with Tag
<snap-l> That makes sense.
<rick_h_> yea, makes things a lot easier/more reusable
<rick_h_> and there's no confusion on what a method returns
<rick_h_> I hate having SqlAlchemy models retuning strange things
<rick_h_> or wondering "is this model init'd or not"
<brousch> rick_h_ is a genius
<rick_h_> no, I've just ran into things I didn't like and worked out what I prefer
<rick_h_> this is all convention/opinion, but it'll be part of my SqlAlchemy tutorial
<jrwren> anyone use s3fs?
<rick_h_> code like Tag.add_tag('test', Tag.get_tag(3)); drives me bonkers
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thank you. I'll play with that, and will likely adopt that convention.
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, I just use boto scripts to work with it for upload/etc
<rick_h_> the fs stuff just seemed a bit scary
<rick_h_> http://unserializableone.blogspot.com/2007/09/simple-directory-browser-for-amazon-s3.html helps a lot
<rick_h_> see http://media.lococast.net/index.html
<snap-l> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2188154&cid=36252086
<snap-l> (the thread where the guy tells me what sites don't have inline ads)
<jrwren> i'm trying out s3fs
<brousch> snap-l: whoa, that is freakish. that article just went through my feed reader and it shows tiny snippets of comments in the reader. i read yours
<snap-l> Yeah, snark is informative, apparently. ;)
<brousch> i never look at names, so i didn't know it was you
<rick_h_> snap-l: something like: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/326/
<snap-l> Wow.
<snap-l> Thank you!
<rick_h_> no prob, hope that helps
<snap-l> Yeah, that helps out a ton
<rick_h_> don't forget to read the comments in the get_list method :)
<snap-l> Yeah, I suck
<snap-l> All the good variables are keywords in Python. ;)
<rick_h_> sorry, pet peeve
<snap-l> Well, it's lazy on my part, because I know better.
<snap-l> But it's the ol' "I'll fix it in post"
<snap-l> and it never would have been fixed.
<binbrain> snap-l: var1, var2, ..., varN aren't Python keywords, just use those :)
<snap-l> a$ = 'hello'
<snap-l> Yay, more rain
<wolfger> high 60 tomorrow, high 83 Sunday 0_o
<brousch> why do i even try to start new projects with django when flask is so friendly?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> because you want to fit in with all those cool django people
<rick_h_> they have their own conferences man, djangocon
<brousch> and a pony
<brousch> i want a pony
<wolfger> only if there's a dog riding the pony
<brousch> that would be django with oracle backend
<brousch> i guess that'd be a pony riding a dog
<wolfger> that's good too
<wolfger> I'm spoiled by a high degree of dog and pony shows here... I just can't settle for only one or the other. :-p
<wolfger> That's why I got a great dane... a pony to go with my dogs XD
<snap-l> wolfger: Well, hell, you've had some of the best salesmen jobs come through that organization
<snap-l> "what we currently have is broken, so we're going to fix it more until everyone says that the old way was 10x better than the improvement".
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> (guy gets promoted, new guy shows up, repeat)
<wolfger> and QQ
<wolfger> I laugh because it's funny and cry because it's true
<wolfger> so when's the next group outing?
<wolfger> Everybody/anybody going to OLF?
<brousch> 11.10
<brousch> wolfger: pyohio, i expect
<brousch> there's that detroit makerfaire too, same weekend
<wolfger> I feel like I missed Penguicon
<wolfger> mini makerfaire AA?
<wolfger> crap, I'm out of town that weekend
<snap-l> I'm planning on going to OLF and PyOhio
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/74644224 <- Grr
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l used one of my favorite swearing combos
<ColonelPanic001> I don't know why, but the word "chucklefuck" always makes me crack up
<rick_h_> yea, PyOhio and OLF here
<snap-l> IT's because it has the word chuckle in it. ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: you and J should do a talk at OLF on your open-source/hardware lab equipment idea, even if it isn't ready
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, we've talked about that.
<snap-l> That's my goal. ;)
<TeamXlink> Does anyone in this irc channel have knowledge about records (the audio kind not the book of records kind) or know someone that does?
<snap-l> What do you want to kow?
<snap-l> I speak a little turntable. ;)
<TeamXlink> Well, I've got a lot of records and I'm unsure of their value.
<snap-l> I'm not the person to ask. :)
<TeamXlink> Most of them are the smaller ones.
<TeamXlink> Oh, alright, thank you.
<snap-l> Depends a lot on condition, rarity, etc.
<snap-l> Plus there's different versions of the same recording, different grades of vinyl, different mastering (direct, OMR, Superdisc, etc)
<_stink_> maybe hit up a few used record stores and see what they say?  that what i'd do if i had a stack of old books that i didn't want around, at least.
<snap-l> Yeah, or check eBay completed auctions for what they're going for
<TeamXlink> Alright, thank you.
<snap-l> I know the prices on CDs a lot better than vinyl
<snap-l> Just out of curiosity, what vinyl do you have?
<TeamXlink> What do you mean?
<TeamXlink> (I'm not sure the context of the word)
<snap-l> What records do you have? :)
<greg-g> snap-l: just making sure. We briefly talked about it today and I love the idea and I think you might get some interest at OLF
<snap-l> The names of the artists, etc.
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I think it has some merit. :)
<greg-g> (sorry, I'm delayed in replying right now)
<brousch> i got flask up and running in a virtualmachine in the same time it takes me to create a django project and fix all the stuff in the settings file
<TeamXlink> Alot of them are in the brown paper sleeving (looks like the kind paper grocery bags are made of.)
<brousch> running under mod_wsgi with a vm
<snap-l> TeamXlink: I think those might be 78s.
<rick_h_> brousch: welcome to micro frameworks
<snap-l> TeamXlink: They should say what speed to play them at on the center label
<snap-l> 78rpm records are also very heavy compared with 45RPM or 33RPM records.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: The pricing on those is also pretty widely varied. I've seen them at antique shops pretty much in bulk, save for the more popular artists.
<snap-l> ie: If you have a Miles Davis 78RPm, that's going to be worth more than some obscure big band that few people remember.
<TeamXlink> Alright.
<TeamXlink> Theres a few that are just a blank label.
<snap-l> Could you take some photos?
<snap-l> You've piqued my interest.
<TeamXlink> I'll try and find my camera.
<TeamXlink> brb
<brousch> how much is my alvin and the chipmuks sing about breakfast cereals 45 worth?
<snap-l> brousch: A punch in the mouth. ;)
<TeamXlink> I can't find my camera
<snap-l> If they're truly white-label LPs, they may be test pressings or underground record distribution
<snap-l> those can fetch some $$, depending
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_label
<TeamXlink> snap-l: Alright.
<TeamXlink> Thank you very much for the help.
<snap-l> Keep in mind, though,  with any collectible, it's all about what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<snap-l> so you might see someone pay $$ for something that they've been desperately searching for, but that doesn't mean it's valued at that.
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<snap-l> Best bet would be to take a sampling, verify it with eBay (lookup what you can) and take it to a local shop, and see what they'll give you for it.
<snap-l> Or, if you don't care too much about market parity, take the whole thing over there.
<snap-l> The good ones will work with you
<TeamXlink> market parity?
<snap-l> What the value of the item is vs what the store will give you for it
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<snap-l> figure most stores will give you about 10-20% of market value
<TeamXlink> Well, I probably won't sell them to a store but sell them myself.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Also keep in mind that vinyl degrades with each playing
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<snap-l> so you'll want to play them on a good turntable
<jrwren> rofl @ "most of them are the smaller ones"
<TeamXlink> I don't have a record player.
<jrwren> i assume you mean 45s
<jrwren> but its funny to ehar 'em called smaller ones.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Borrow one, or go to a friends place
<snap-l> or check with the record shop
<TeamXlink> Yeah,
<jrwren> sounds just like buying real estate.
<TeamXlink> They have been in a crate for a long time, and some of them aren't even sleeves, so I think they might have the grooves on them worn down too much.
<jrwren> value is entirely subjective :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, if thy're white labels, they might be 7" singles.
<jrwren> 7" doesn't spin at 45?
<TeamXlink> Theres only 7 ones with blank labels.
<snap-l> Depends. I seem to remember some 7" were 33RPM
<TeamXlink> And on some of them one side is entirely smooth.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Yeah, you likely have some white labels.
<jrwren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_%28music%29 says usually 45rpm
<snap-l> So you'll need to listen to them to figure out what they are.
<TeamXlink> Darn.
<snap-l> jrwren: Think Dance music, not traditional 45RPMs. :)
<jrwren> luckily you can use shazam to find out what it is.
<jrwren> trance/house?
<jrwren> those are often 12" singles AFAIK
<jrwren> but i'm with ya.
<snap-l> Yeah, but not guaranteed.
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TheTotallies.jpg
<snap-l> The publicâs view of vampires as âromantic creaturesâ
<snap-l> couldnât be more wrong â they only feign intimacy to lure in
<snap-l> prey, and they only sparkle when theyâre on fire.
<jrwren> \m/
<jrwren> make vampries scary again
<brousch> were they ever scary?
<rick_h_> you guys are nuts
<rick_h_> ty for the kind RT words there brousch_ snap-l and mrs snap-l
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3QqO8EXd-II/TU0uREhst0I/AAAAAAAA9EE/G4kMJDDOlKo/s1600/image001.jpg
<jrwren> i'm mrs snap-l ?
<snap-l> jrwren: No, my wife retweeted my praise of rick_h_
<rick_h_> hah, oops, missed jrwren
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-27
<_stink_> if you play your cards right, you *could* be mrs snap-l.
<greg-g> back from OU
<rick_h_> greg-g: how did it go?
<greg-g> rick_h_: it was good, really. Lots of interest in open *
<rick_h_> very cool
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> TGIF!!!!!!!
<greg-g> god yeah, I wish I didn't have to do Friday though
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> ugh
<Wolfger> party
<brousch> gnome3 looks nice
<Wolfger> I'm digging on irccloud.com today. Got my beta invite yesterday. Supposedly will keep a log of the channel contents even when I'm not online, so I can scrollback after I log in
<Wolfger> It's also prettier than webchat
<Wolfger> though that's something of a negative in the workplace
<brousch> Wolfger: i tried that tues and weds
<brousch> it was pretty nice
<brousch> then i realized i don't really care what happens when i'm not on, and it's annoying to have separate clients for irc and IM
<brousch> i use adium/pidgin
<greg-g> man gosh, some people just need to not talk so much in the morning
<brousch> eh?
<greg-g> a student worker who talks way too much first thing in the morning
<brousch> hopped up on quad espresso?
<Wolfger> slurping quad espresso?
<Wolfger> brousch: Pidgin for IRC? Ew.
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Yay, my coder wall has 0 achievements!
<rick_h_> need more github
<snap-l> Which means I haven't used github nearly as much as I probably should have.
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> when snap-l quit, I got a normal looking quit message.... when he came back, the line changed to a double-ended arrow that says "snap-l nipped out"
<snap-l> Heh
<Wolfger> Little bits of polish are awesome
<brousch> the colors annoyed me
<Wolfger> Here's one for the head-bangin' comic lovers: http://www.teefury.com/
<snap-l> Oh geez.
<Wolfger> brousch: The inability to change themes is annoying
<Wolfger> hopefully they add that at some point
<brousch> it's a particularly annoying blue
<Wolfger> Hah. Just noticed that Irccloud doesn't support IE. "We only support Safari, Chrome (stable+beta), FF 4 for now"
<brousch> IE is not a cloud-capable browser
<Wolfger> ...
<Wolfger> please tell me you just made that bit of marketspeak up
<brousch> everyone knows this
<brousch> you can quote me on that
<snap-l> We like to think of IE as a "legacy" browser
<greg-g> I believe the real term is "cloud-ready"
<Wolfger> ugh
<greg-g> or at least, that is what my cloud consultant told me
<greg-g> he's so smart
<Wolfger> "cloud-ready" means "I have a NIC"
<greg-g> that's not what Bob said
<snap-l> Cloud Ready?
<greg-g> yeah! snap-l gets it!
<snap-l> That reminds me of the "Digital Ready" nomeclature they put on headphones when CDs were first released.
<greg-g> we all have to be cloud ready if we are to compete in the today
 * rick_h_ checks if I'm ready for more clouds...been a lot of them dropping water on me lately
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> someone fired up the lawnmower this morning, and I thought "Seriously? It's a swamp in my backyard"
<snap-l> But it's a landscaper, so they get a pass.
<Wolfger> The lawn service was mowing the hotel grounds yesterday, in the rain
<snap-l> I've been there, mowing lawns after heavy rain. All you get are these clumps of wet grass that just lay there under the mower like dead gophers
<snap-l> Wow, Miro 4 wants to be iTunes when it grows up
<Wolfger> heh
<rick_h_> "Wow, this new Miro thing wants to be iTunes when it grows up"
<rick_h_> ... years go on
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> jrwren: mmmm, 4 TB of disk
<jrwren> oh yea.
<jrwren> i can't wait.
<jrwren> i'm gonna pvcreate vgextend lvcreate
<jrwren> is there a good reason create a partition and pvcreate that v. just pvcreate the disk ?
<greg-g> you're talking words I don't use
<snap-l> Something in my gut says it's better to partition, but I don't know why.
<jrwren> i'm considering writing a PEP292 implmenetation in C#. someone talk me out of it or point me to similar or existing please?  its string subst where "hi $name, how are you" would become "hi bob, how are you" assuming there is a dictionary with correct kvp
<jrwren> snap-l: me too, but I can't justify it.
<jrwren>  blockdev --rereadpt /dev/diskname #i never knew
 * rick_h_ starts the grumbling...if you defined tables with fk they you better create them in order so the damn fk exists...and if you have a fk, the col type better match the parent column...and why sqlite let this dev get away with this crap that now breaks on mysql...
 * rick_h_ keeps grumbling when there are fk fields you enforce guess what, they need to reference a column with some constraints on it...
<brousch> snap-l: have you seen this? http://networkedblogs.com/im7C0
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> gotta love a company that can afford to drop apps for $5 to help boost those hardware sales
<brousch> yeah
<jrwren> and THAT is why you don't use sqlite
<rick_h_> jrwren: well it's handy for unit testing which is what I'm trying to fix
<jrwren> truth.
<jrwren> can someone with more PEP exp than me, help?
<rick_h_> with?
<jrwren> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0292/ has reference to a reference impl at the bottom of the page. [5]
<jrwren> but the link doesn't work.
<jrwren> where might I find a ref impl?
<rick_h_> I'll ping barry on twitter and see if he's still got it
<jrwren> it is in 2.7.1 and i assume newer py.
<jrwren> i'll look for the py source
<rick_h_> I don't think it's there is it?
<rick_h_> the stuff in 2.7 is different
<jrwren> err.. 2.5.2 i mean.  http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/node40.html is what i want
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations
<jrwren> did they remove Template?
<rick_h_> ah, it's a diff module
<rick_h_> nope, looks like it's still there
<rick_h_> just never heard/seen it
<rick_h_> thought you meant the new formating for string.format()
<jrwren> i'll browse  http://hg.python.org/cpython/ and find it.
<jrwren> thanks.
<rick_h_> which replaces the %() stuff
<snap-l> brousch: That's interesting. :)
<snap-l> So, how soon before we see someone on stage rocking the iPad like they rock the keytar. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: sqlite is a great prototyping database, but it completely falls down when you do anything other than using it for simple key / value stores
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQE_PULbOQ&feature=related
<snap-l> Introduce foreign keys, and you can watch the cracks form in the foundations. ;)
<rick_h_> there's your on stage ipad band
<rick_h_> RESTRICT and CASCADE are permitted to make porting easier. In MySQL 5.0, they do nothing.
<rick_h_> @#$Y*(Y#@*($Y#*@(Y$(@#Y$(
<_stink_> looks like nethack
<_stink_> lots of bows and Yetis and gold
<snap-l> rick_h_: And then you become these guys. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQShIPWPg_Y
<ColonelPanic001> THE YETIS ARE ATTACJING
<ColonelPanic001> There's some humans in there, too
<_stink_> nurses
<_stink_> take off your armor
<rick_h_> http://functionsource.com/post/78848-bytes-when-your-browser-update-is-a-small-percentage-of-your-home-page-icon those crazy google folks
<snap-l> rick_h_: I liked MySQL before really using it too. ;)
<snap-l> Also, for whatever reason I'm not seeing UH: CHC in June from the iCal feed
<rick_h_> I might not have gone that far out
<rick_h_> I only did a couple of months I think to start
<snap-l> I copied them over, and they're in the iCal file
<snap-l> But Evolution / Google Calendar aren't displaying them
<snap-l> Also, I swear they're not doing something right with the time zones in the iCal file.
<jrwren> ok... i dont umnderstand python metaclasses
<jrwren> is the eckel tutorialg good?
<rick_h_> not sure, I've not read that one
<rick_h_> I grabbed some out of a couple of books
<jrwren> voidspace has an article.
<rick_h_> he's pretty good, would check that out
<snap-l> I'm not sure Bruce Eckel really groks Python
<rick_h_> http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/string/ jrwren is what barry linked me to
<rick_h_> is that what you're checking out?
<snap-l> His Java books were OK, but the C++ books weren't nearly as good.
<snap-l> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/metaclasses.shtml ?
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'm actually just looking at string.py that shipped with python 2.7
<jrwren> on my local disk
<jrwren> its there. so i see the code i want to port to C#
<rick_h_> jrwren: ok, well this might be a bit simpler/closer to reference
<rick_h_> ok cool
<jrwren> but my pyfu is too weak
<jrwren> snap-l: yes, that article
<jrwren> snap-l: i was thinking of eckel's write up on decorators. those were really good
<rick_h_> well decorators are an order of mag. easier than metaclasses imo
<rick_h_> but I've only done metaclasses in a real project twice I think
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> tahnks for that svn link.
<jrwren> it inherits from unicode, which I'll have to go investigate now :)
<jrwren> oh...
<jrwren> no i don't.
<jrwren> __mod__ is the method for the % operator.
 * jrwren is slow
<rick_h_> yea, magic methods, gotta love em
<jrwren> rick_h_: what does the %(delim)s do at the beginning of the template pattern regex
<jrwren> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/329/
<jrwren> or anyone who knows regex or python intricacies of regex
<rick_h_> jrwren: that's string formatting for changing the delim for / vs ' vs ` etc
<jrwren> nevermind... i see it.
<jrwren> right.
<rick_h_> it looks like at least, it's supplied from _re.escape(cls.delimeter) in line 16/17
<jrwren> i'm seeing it now.
<jrwren> didn't get that before.
<rick_h_> k
<jrwren> still not really sure hwo they are doing that, cuz pattern is a instance of re, not a string.
<jrwren> but I'll assume re has a __mod__ overload on it or something
<rick_h_> no, that's just python string formatting
<rick_h_> "%s %s" % ('rick', 'harding') == "rick harding"
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> holy crap my python is rusty.
<jrwren> i see it now.
<jrwren> thanks.
<snap-l> Pretty convinced that the only reason people still use Java is because of all of the code generation tools
<snap-l> ie: wsimport and xjc for SOAP and REST, respectively
<snap-l> and, of course, inertia
<greg-g> lol @ these setup instructions: https://github.com/quartzjer/Locker/wiki/Ubuntu-10.04-%26-10.10-Install
<snap-l> yay, my Ubuntu Forums user is disabled, as I requested.
<snap-l> since they weren't going to change the username.
<snap-l> So, no guilt whatsoever for not using the forums AT ALL.
<snap-l> Any of you windows users know of a good sftp client that isn't Putty?
<krondor> snap-l: filezilla
<snap-l> I just threw up in my mouth a bit
<krondor> are you looking for gui-less sftp?  I'm not sure what's better then filezilla in windows for that ...
<krondor> maybe winscp I haven't used that in awhile
<rick_h_> I used to use smartftp
<rick_h_> but that was a long time ago now
<snap-l> No, I mean I've used filezilla, and I'd rather have radioactive rabid rabiits nibble on my toes than use Filezilla.
<Blazeix> doesn't windows explorer natively support ftp?
<snap-l> sftp
<Blazeix> sftp, too I think
<snap-l> using keys?
<Blazeix> oh, no
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I'll keep moving files to the putty directory and rename file with spaces.zip to shit.sip
<snap-l> fucking putty scp doesn't handle anything with spaces.
<snap-l> nor does it handle wildcards.
<snap-l> if it handled those two, I wouldn't be nearly as bitchy.
<rick_h_> files aren't supposed to have spaces
<rick_h_> it's a bug in the "new file" diaglog box
<snap-l> Well, at least Linux can escape spaces
<snap-l> Windows does some stupid-ass overloading bullshit to make it work
<krondor> filezilla can handle spaces :P
<snap-l> krondor: I can't handle Filezilla
<krondor> cygwin + sftp
<krondor> it gets uglier the farther yo ugo
<jrwren> snap-l: openssh's sftp?
<jrwren> winscp is great.
<snap-l> jrwren: Tell me more.
<jrwren> Blazeix: windows explorer does NOT support ssh or scp or sftp
<jrwren> also, sftp != ftps
<snap-l> OpenSSH for Windows is a free package that installs a minimal OpenSSH server and client utilities in the Cygwin package without needing the full Cygwin installation
<jrwren> snap-l: putty scp handles spaces just fine, you just have to shell escape or quote them properly.
<snap-l> Oh, now I'm intrigued.
<jrwren> you don't have cygwin installed?
<jrwren> windows is worthless without cygwin
<snap-l> jrwren: s/without cygwin//g
<snap-l> FTFY.
<jrwren> yeah, i love how i get great bat life and all my ahrdware works adn my uptime lasts for weeks.
<rick_h_> and nothing there about doing anything better
<jrwren> better than waht? I'm just saying its not worthless. its worth something to me.
<jrwren> I finally ported that python. so far so good. I'm happy
<jrwren> thanks for your help rick_h_
<rick_h_> very cool
<snap-l> jrwren: Thanks for the pointer to the openssh stuff. I'll check that out.
<jrwren> snap-l: yw. if you use putty, there is also charade which will impersonate openssh agent and pass through to pagent
<snap-l> Yeah, I managed to get pagent working pretty well
<jrwren> you'll want charade tehn.
<snap-l> Only gripe is putty's terminal emulation is a little lacking with special characters.
<snap-l> like mutt's threading
<jrwren> otherwise openssh asks you for password and you ahve to run separate agent. its b.s.
<jrwren> reallY? I don't use mutt, so I don't know.
<jrwren> but i get utf8 in irssi in screen in putty.
<jrwren> i've enabled IME in windows and typed japanese into irssi in screen in putty
<jrwren> did you set your charset under Window->Translation ?
<snap-l> I just did
<krondor> snap-l:  if you need x windows forwarding; xming works well for me (if this is new to putty/windows type talk).  http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure I need the X forwarding, but that's nice to know.
<snap-l> Might just install freaking VirtualBox on this machine and be done with it. :)
<snap-l> OK, I've been way too hard on Putty.
<snap-l> There's actually some nice customiziations that I haven't checked out.
 * snap-l is eating his words.
<jrwren> HURRAY!
<jrwren> its just a damned shame that they aren't default.
<Blazeix> crap, I'm a noob. I had no idea that sftp and ftps weren't the same thing.
<Blazeix> one's ssh-based, the other ssl?
<snap-l> jrwren: No doubt.
<snap-l> The defaults are anything but sane.
<krondor> Blazeix: yes sftp is ssh and ftps is ftp w/ ssl.  If you want to get more confusing there's also ftp over ssh (tunnel)
<krondor> the defaults are maybe lowest common denominator for 1991?
<greg-g> does krondor == matt s. ?
<snap-l> No, Ryan Kather
<greg-g> ahh, huh
<greg-g> I guess I saw him at OU yesterday
<greg-g> (he pm'd me, but I didn't see it until he logged off)
<snap-l> Ah, good times.
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/74728004
<brousch> damnit, i keep missing little things in javascript, like ; at the end of statements, and it has no default paramters on functions?
<snap-l> Grrr, sometimes I really don't like feedburner
<snap-l> esp when you release a new episode of a show, and it doesn't pick up right away.
<jrwren> ; is optional at end of statement in javascript
<rick_h_> jrwren: no! not optional
<rick_h_> brousch_: get jslint, hook it into gvim
<rick_h_> run run run
<rick_h_> http://technotales.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/node-jslint-and-vim/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-28
<jrwren> rick_h_: agreed, but technically it is optional
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, guess I've been learning omre the hard way doing node stuff
<rick_h_> with it being async and full of callback, etc
<rick_h_> I've hit a few cases where stuff like var is left off
<rick_h_> and it causes things to break
<rick_h_> so a bit of a jslint hammer lately
<jrwren> oh yeah.
<jrwren> definitely.
<jrwren> mirroring with LVM is looking pretty cool.
<jrwren> i'm not sure why people are so hung up on MD+LVM
<snap-l> Wait until you lose your first drive. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, ugh
<rick_h_> hardware raid of bust ime
<rick_h_> and the problem with a giant raid array is backing that up
<rick_h_> want to do a fresh install/upgrade?
<rick_h_> jrwren: is your C# port up somewhere?
<brousch> grrrrr, why do cutting edge things have to be so buggy?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> what is it this time?
<brousch> google maps in phonegap won't recognize a single click
<brousch> drag works, double-click works, but no single click
<brousch> i'll try to rewrite it using jquery mobile with maps plugin next
<rick_h_> is there a tap event to check instead?
<brousch> tap doesn't work either
<brousch> frustrating
<rick_h_> :(
<brousch> hopefully jquery will save me, but not tonight
<brousch> night night
<brousch> rick_h_: you'll be happy to know i solved my issue from last night. i was attaching the listeners at the wrong time or with the wrong scope
<brousch> i now have my minimum useful golf distance app
<brousch> now i'm off to actually use it
<snap-l> Good morning
<greg-g> yo yo
<snap-l> Howdy.
<snap-l> btw: my sip address is snapl@iptel.org
<snap-l> sip:snapl@iptel.org
<snap-l> Can we please just stop with the CAPTCHAs now? http://ubuntuone.com/p/w6o/
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/statuses/74558536247549953
<rick_h_> brousch_: awesome, glad you got it going
<rick_h_> seemed odd a click event failed like that
<brousch> i still don't understand why it didn't work the first way
<brousch> i was attaching listener after it was created
<brousch> so i moved it to right after creation and it worked
<brousch> the app worked well on the course
<rick_h_> yea, interesting
<rick_h_> cool that it worked out
<rick_h_> ok, this is kind of funny: http://www.quora.com/Are-computer-programmers-essentially-slave-owners
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-29
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> finally finished the lococast episode, nice closing up
<rick_h_> don't even know what a mess that was :)
<snap-l> Yeah, it definitely means we need more practice. ;)
 * greg-g is finally upgrading to natty
<Wolfger> 'bout time
<snap-l> Heh, I need to do that as well
<Wolfger> you should be going Oeneric by now
<snap-l> I only have it on a laptop
<snap-l> Wolfger: Cork it. :)
<Wolfger> :-p
<greg-g> and we're back in Natty!
<greg-g> ok, what is that thing in the top left called that I click on to do thing?
<greg-g> whatever it is, it isn't working, as in, it pulls up that window, but I can't click on any of the top row, the bottom row of apps works though. But I also can't search when I type (nothing comes up)_
<greg-g> oh well, brb, gotta shower before this wedding
<greg-g> ok, works now, apparently two very important plugins  were not automaticlaly installed
<greg-g> along with my typing ability
<snap-l> greg-g: That's a bug
<snap-l> Interesting that this Chandos disc mentions that Mahler's 7th symphony is Public Domain
<snap-l> OK, going to turn off the computer since we're in the line of t-storms that are producing tornados
<snap-l> See you on the other side.
<brousch> bah, that's what laptops are for
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-21
<rick_h_> morning, ugh I forgot my headphones at the coffee shop this morning
<brousch> bah, just use the speakers
<rick_h_> hah
<shakes808> Good morning all
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> ugh, recovery monday in effect
<brousch> ah, crap. missed the eclipse last night
<shakes808> I didn't even know one was happening, I wish I could have seen it as well.
<rick_h_> man, it was flooding my twitter feed
<shakes808> lol I seen some pretty cool pics from people around G+
<shakes808> But thought those were the works of photoshop. Now knowing that those were real, it makes them all that more beautiful. There were some talented pictures.
<brousch> has anyone used coffeescript?
<rick_h_> brousch: so I've tinkered, I've got the "little book on coffeescript" we talked about it on Lococast
<rick_h_> brousch: what's the question? or you just curious if any of us have caved?
<brousch> next grwebdev will be coffeescript. i thought someone else was running it, but i think now i will be
<brousch> need to do a little boning up
<rick_h_> brousch: gotcha
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I'd suggest checking out that little book of coffescript
<rick_h_> I read through most of it on the plane out to pycon and it goes pretty quick while still being good info
<snap-l> brousch: Unless you were on the west coast, you weren't likely to see anything for the eclipse
<brousch> someone mentioned seeing it from detroit
<brousch> maybe they meant over a webcam or something
<brousch> pragmatic programmer has a user group program http://pragprog.com/reviewers
<shakes808> http://www.space.com/15780-photos-annular-solar-eclipse-may20-2012.html
<brousch> http://jonlax.com/
<snap-l> JoDee was watching the eclipse via ustream
<snap-l> http://www.detroitnet.org/index.php/3614/okay-taliban-now-its-personal/
<snap-l> Also, song of the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHparblxwzE
<greg-g> snap-l: yes. sad day.
<snap-l> Going to be another one of those years where we lose too many musicians
<snap-l> Whiney Houston, Robin Gibb, Adamn Yauch
<greg-g> rick_h_: uhhhh http://identi.ca/notice/93872762 ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, guess I'm on the way out :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I hope the argument there is that "can't work on your codebase and the coding guidelines you've chosen because they're wrong to him"
<rick_h_> greg-g: vs "if your dev wants to keep thigns at some stupid code guideline...fire them!"
<greg-g> right
<rick_h_> but I'm quickly reaching the point in life where "your boss doesn't care about you caring about code quality...then quit!"
<greg-g> heh, fair
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/93490085#notice-93873642
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/tx5qb/how_my_browser_looks_im_still_parsecs_apart_to/
<snap-l> Thank you, Ubuntu.
<greg-g> snap-l: oh arch :)
<snap-l> That's the great thing about Ubuntu: less time spent configuring hardware so you can spend more time bitching about how much Ubuntu sucks online
<brousch> they have moved the complaints from hardware not working to unity being annoying
<snap-l> brousch: Yep
<snap-l> You take the good, you take the bad
<snap-l> you take them both, and there you have
<snap-l> the FOSS of life
<snap-l> the FOSS of life
<brousch> i did not watch that show
<snap-l> I watched it from time to time
<snap-l> JoDee likes it way more than I do
<brousch> What's wrong with this picture? http://pydanny.com/may-12th-2012-la-open-source-recap.html
<snap-l> brousch: Not a damn thing. :)
<brousch> fanboy!
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, wait, I know... there's a thinkpad or two in the back row
<Milyardo> That coffee isn't from Starbucks
<greg-g> I don't see enough black rimmed glasses
<shakes808> all the Apple laptops?
<brousch> shakes808 wins the cookie!
<shakes808> YAY! I am fat, I like cookies :D
<rick_h_> that pic was from CA right?
<rick_h_> I heard they give them away for free out there
<rick_h_> or make you buy one when you move, I can't recall which
<snap-l> It's part of the reeducation program
<snap-l> You get a Prius and an Apple laptop, and a 1 week trial to Whole Foods
<shakes808> If they give them away, I am all down for it, give me the big PRO laptop. :D
<shakes808> HA HA
<snap-l> They tried something similar in Ann Arbor
<shakes808> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBpC2b_vL8A
<greg-g> I turned down my macbook that was handed to me at the border. I gave them a GNU sticker instead. And kissed him on his cheek. I think I sold him on it.
<rick_h_> lol
<shakes808> HA HA greg-g! Did he blush?
<greg-g> we don't blush in SF from a simple kiss on the cheek.
<snap-l> greg-g: I think the reason for the pause was that wasn't his cheek
<shakes808> HA HA
<greg-g> which cheek?
<snap-l> hard to tell under those beards.
 * greg-g picks out a hair from between his teeth
<shakes808> eeeewwww
<snap-l> I'll bet that busker never does a handstand again
<greg-g> btw, I won the "... in bed" competition at the chinese restaurant this weekend
<greg-g> "Keep your nose to the grindstone."
<shakes808> HA HA
<snap-l> greg-g: I don't get it.
<snap-l> ;)
<shakes808> greg-g: If your nose is being ground down, someone needs to shave.
<shakes808> ;)
<greg-g> I think I have successfully derailed the channel for the day, I shall go back to my real work now
<brousch> wow
<snap-l> brousch: You started it
<greg-g> it's true.
<brousch> it went places i had never dreamed it would
<greg-g> your dreams wouldn't even be PG here in SF, brousch.
<snap-l> brousch: Oh the places your joke will go
<brousch> it wasn't even a joke!
<snap-l> Well I kissed a man in Reno, just to watch him cry. When I gave him that GNU sticker, I bade him goodbye.
<snap-l> greg-g MacOS prison blues ^^
<greg-g> snap-l: :)
<waldo323_> is that why so many jailbrake?
<rick_h_> #$@#$#@ Django...that is all
<snap-l> rick_h_: That good, eh?
<brousch> i can't seem to translate #$@#$#@ into a real word, so I'll assume you mean "love 4 ever"
<rick_h_> brousch: I will not violate the CoC...I will not....
<rick_h_> so yea, whatever that translates to :P
<brousch> what'd it do to you this time?
<rick_h_> the stupid dev server sucks balls, the serialization is a pita, and the stupid decisions on how to load config files is just a pita
<rick_h_> I'm freaking hacking config in tests so that I can actually not run something in production but test it
<brousch> just have a config for testing
<rick_h_> right, so the 'django' way is to change config based on the debug flag
<rick_h_> but tests run with the debug flag always set to false
<brousch> django-admin.py runserver --settings=mysite.settings
<rick_h_> you don't runserver with tests :P
<rick_h_> and their stupid dev server doesn't support multiple workers, writing a pidfile, and here I am trying to find some way to killall any running django (with no success)
<brousch> you could run a real server, like gunicorn
<rick_h_> yea, but all the django people freak out "but but the django dev server is the way to go, we shouldn't need to run a 'real' server
<brousch> i haven't heard that
<brousch> one of the big complaints i hear is the dev server sucks
<rick_h_> so in reading my reply, the issue seems to be "if we're going to use a real server let's just use apache since that's productino"
<rick_h_> but then you lose pdb'ing ability
<rick_h_> so debugging suffers
<rick_h_> I'll have to demo/educate/etc just annoyed that the default things in django are having me fight django vs getting anything done
 * rick_h_ rants...rants... wheeee
<brousch> one nice thing about django is that you're generally not trailblazing. what you are trying to do has been done before.
<brousch> yet you seem to be hitting trailblazing problems
<rick_h_> yea, but then you hit the opinion enforcement issues: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/4996
<rick_h_> http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201103/quick_and_dirty_multithreaded_django_dev_server.html
<brousch> heh
<Blazeix> bah, this returns two columns, with FooBaz's values aliased to FooFoo: http://vpaste.net/JDxER
<Blazeix> kind of obvious in that example, but less obvious when you have 10 columns, and the columns in question are bit columns
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> rough day Blazeix
<Blazeix> yeah, i was at the point where i was saying "ok, either i'm insane or i found a bug in sql..."
<greg-g> nixternal: hey man, do you live right around Hot Doug's?
<greg-g> nixternal: it was a cramped trip: in Thursday night and out saturday morning, with work stuff all friday
<greg-g> (and dinner the night before with work peeps, and then dinner friday night with some OSI peeps)
 * snap-l got a Squeezebox Touch loaner for my article
<snap-l> Have to say, it's a pretty nice little unit
<snap-l> though I had to force a firmware upgrade on it so it wouldn't hang while trying to get a hold of mysqueezebox.com
<rick_h_> snap-l: sweet!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-22
<nixternal> greg-g: i have a client that i was at all last week that is right around the corner. i had lunch there every damn day
<nixternal> snap-l: you read about ubuntu accomplishments 0.2 yet? bet you can't wait to read it either :p
<nixternal> i live about 25 minutes west of hot dougs, so i still frequent it
<snap-l> nixternal: I wish them every success
<snap-l> and I wish for permission to completely ignore it
<snap-l> The last time I actually gave a shit about merit badges was the one day I was a Boy Scout. I got mycommuncation badge,and thought "why am I doing this to myself?" Plus, the scoutmaster's son was an ass.
<snap-l> He was Arnold J Rimmer. All pomp and military-like, but the first dodgeball to the face and he crumpled like a used kleenex.
<shakes808> Hello all
<shakes808> I have a question
<shakes808> Trying to work on the Pyramid tutorial and am having problems trying to run it. I have recreated the venv and all that and still won't run.
<shakes808> I was in #python trying to get some help but wasn't working out
<shakes808> here is what it is doing
<shakes808> http://bpaste.net/show/fwqcuUqYjrZ1IYiOMjor/
<snap-l> You might want to check #pyramid for help
<snap-l> I've sen that error before, but I can't place it.
<shakes808> alright thank you
<greg-g> nixternal: jealous, I would eat there all the time, too.
<nixternal> i still prefer true chicago style, but when i get the chance i hit that place up. especially when they have specials or new beasts to eat :)
<nixternal> i tried that vegetarian crap, it is over rated and it made me fat(ter).
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> nixternal: I even got the duck fat fries
<nixternal> omg, those are nuts. i can't believe you went crazy like that
<nixternal> you just pissed off the entire hipster community. may che be with you
<nixternal> if you are so anal about having GNU/Linux as part of your distro name...get the f off facebook & twitter!
<nixternal> if you use gnu/linux, you believe in that filth stallman spews, and if that is the case, you are against enemies such as twitter & fb
<greg-g> wait, did you switch between talking to me and someone else there, nixternal ?
<nixternal> greg-g: damn, i did. i didn't switch channels on the gnu/linux stuff
<nixternal> when i start doing that, it means it is time for sleep!
<greg-g> I hear ya
<greg-g> g'night!
<snap-l> nixternal: As with most things Stallman, there's a nuance that is completely missed by his disciples
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> http://pandodaily.com/2012/05/21/bootstrapped-github-now-raising-a-round-from-andreessen-horowitz/
<rick_h_> crazy, I didn't realize the in house github box was such the big deal
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> potty
<snap-l> Is it just me, or does the name Marc Andreessen signal "run away"
<rick_h_> guess I don't know enough about the guy
<snap-l> ACtually, looking at their track record on wikipedia; they've picked some pretty good winners
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreessen_Horowitz
<snap-l> Apparently I'm full of it
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> acknowledgement is the first step
<snap-l> He still gives me the tech heebie-jeebies, but I'd settle for half of his tech picks.
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/KSlTG
<rick_h_> amen ^^
<brousch> ug
<brousch> too long
<rick_h_> it's very good thgh
<brousch> sems to repeat the same thing over and over
<rick_h_> woot! getting to play my old grey beard cards today
<_stink_> just today?
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Got some O'Reilly books for MUG
<snap-l> not sure what they sent us, so it'll be a sur-prise!
<snap-l> rick_h_: I swear, IE9 should just be treated as one giant <canvas> tag
<snap-l> and just do off-browser rendering on some other machine. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> render the pages as jpg server side and just send them down
<Blazeix> that's how gtk3's html background works, via multipart/x-mixed-replace
<Blazeix> er, s/background/backend/
<Blazeix> i wonder if you could use that backend with webkit to render all pages server-side, then push them to a canvas for IE. that should work, i'd think
<Blazeix> of course, you'd go to hell for doing that, but it'd be an interesting exercise
<jrwren> would you say that unused imports at top of a python file is a sign of inexperienced pythonista?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'd say it's a sign of someone not using good tools
<rick_h_> jrwren: but not necessarily inexperienced, it's not hard to miss when you're editing a file down well below of imports
<rick_h_> make lint ftw!
<snap-l> jrwren: It depends. It could be the sign of someone doing cut-and-paste code, or it could be the sign of refactoring without clean-up
<brousch> i do! in my belly button!
<snap-l> It's not something I'd crucify a developer over, but I'd remove them once I noticed
<rick_h_> yea, it's why you have your build server run lint/etc tools on the code as well as tests
<snap-l> unless it was brousch, because any excuse for a crucifixion is a good one.
<rick_h_> yea, pep8 (habit stuff) is actually a bigger sign imo
<brousch> pydev warns me about unused imports and unused variables
<rick_h_> yea, but sometimes you don't notice because it's usually next to the line in erorr
<rick_h_> so if you open a file, jump to the bottom, refactor some bits, and close it...meh
<snap-l> If you're going a programmer interview, I'd recommend giving tasks that have python built-in equivalents
<rick_h_> it happens
<snap-l> like finding a value in an array
<rick_h_> dammit, django strikes again...
<rick_h_> oh sqlalchemy how I !@$#@! miss you
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5821947/sqlalchemy-getter-setter-in-declarative-mixin-class vs https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/3148
<brousch> anyone poked at this yet? https://www.pythonanywhere.com/
<rick_h_> no, it's cool but can't find a need/use for it
<brousch> move launchpad to it
<snap-l> They need to figure out how to get pygame to work with it. :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: That comment thread on that Django patch needs more razor blades and emo kids
<rick_h_> well it's nuts. That thing is year's old. You're telling me you can't find a single way to make this thing work in all that time?
<rick_h_> it's a feature I use in about every app I do
<snap-l> rick_h_: Maybe the problem is with you. :)
<snap-l> YOu're doing it wrong.
<snap-l> That's not hte DJango way.
<rick_h_> yea, I always forget to put that hat on
<rick_h_> the 'shut up and enjoy our crap you hater' hat
<brousch> quit doing it wrong!
<brousch> rick_h_: you should spend your time making a django->pyramid conversion script
<rick_h_> brousch: ummm...no
<brousch> do it!
<rick_h_> django devs don't want pyramid
<rick_h_> it's like saying you'd make a mac->linux conversion script
<rick_h_> they're revolt at the idea
<brousch> make it go both ways, like git-svn
 * rick_h_ shoots self
<brousch> you work in pyramid, but push to django
<brousch> ahahahah
<brousch> mission accomplished
<jrwren> rick_h_: that django issue is terrible.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I keep finding these long standing tickets for things as I go along
<rick_h_> like brousch said, I'm not asking for anything that hasn't been thought of before...just not implemented yet I geuss :/
<brousch> disappointing
<brousch> there are patches and everything even
<rick_h_> patches don't mean crap, see the ticket from yesterday adding pidfile support to the dev server
 * rick_h_ goes off and grumbles while trying to move things forward
<jcastro> rick_h_: those eneloops are awesome
<jcastro> <3
<rick_h_> jcastro: glad you like
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_> snap-l: rechargable batteries
<rick_h_> the eneloops are the branch that the apple rechargables are underneath
<rick_h_> brand that is
<jcastro> http://www.eneloop.info/
<rick_h_> suggested jcastro get some a while back
<snap-l> They're just rechargables?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> but good quality ones
<snap-l> OK, for some reason I was hoping they'd have some kinetic charging mechanism or something. :)
<snap-l> eneloop just sounds like it should be more than conventional rechargable.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> they're pretty nice though
<greg-g> lmorchard: hey, we should talk sometime about badg.us and LRMI (http://lrmi.net). Basically, recording, via metadata, the educational competencies/standards on the "proof" page
<greg-g> I'm here at a conference with Chris M. from Mozilla OB
<lmorchard> Hah I was just going to mention him
<lmorchard> and irc://irc.mozilla.org/badges
<greg-g> ah, k, we have lunch now, be back later :)
<snap-l> lmorchard: You should really come to CHC tomorrow. :)
<snap-l> I'll get you some clove gum if it would get you there.
<lmorchard> Oddly enough, I will be in ann arbor tomorrow night :/
<snap-l> bah
<lmorchard> Leaving the house, but in the other direction
<snap-l> no clove gum then
<snap-l> INstead I'll be getting you some Necco Wafers
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necco#Brands <- Gah, it's like a collection of all of the candy I despise in one company
<lmorchard> It's nice out now, though, so my chances of leaving the house are rising
<snap-l> lmorchard: OK, you have my permission to go to AA tomorrow (http://www.aadl.org/events/list?id=14190)
<lmorchard> Yeah, that's why :)
<lmorchard> Also taking my wife, the archival studies grad student, with me
<brousch> mmmm, clove um
<brousch> almost as good as black licorice
<snap-l> Hah, they have a reference to my old BBS on textfiles.com
<snap-l> http://bbslist.textfiles.com/616/
<snap-l> I'll give you a hint: my old handle was a Rush album name
<rick_h_> ah, so love passing tests
<brousch> i'm going through this right now http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/
<rick_h_> ugh! selenium ootb?
<jrwren> gawd i suck at python
<rick_h_> what did you do now jrwren?
 * rick_h_ bets nothing we haven't done 10x
<jrwren> nothin, i just odn't know how to do such simple stuff
<brousch> what's wrong with selenium?
<rick_h_> ah, learning curve stuff?
<jrwren> like, how do I determine the module I'm in.
<rick_h_> brousch: it's slow!
<jrwren> yeah, learning curve stuff.
<rick_h_> jrwren: __name__
<rick_h_> __file__ is helpful as well
<rick_h_> there's some other __xx__ magic vars
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh, maybe __module__
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html goes through the big ones it seems
<rick_h_> brousch: check out hte django test Client for most unit testing
<jrwren> yeah, but it seem context sensitive.
<rick_h_> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/testing/?from=olddocs#default-test-client
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's the current module/file/etc
<rick_h_> jrwren: what are you hoping to get a hold of?
<jrwren> if I'm in a class I can self.__module__ but in a top level function (django view) its different.
<jrwren> django view name
<jrwren> i'm sure a name would never change.
<jrwren> but still that APP='name of my view' string is driving me bonkers
<rick_h_> jrwren: huh? what string is that?
<jrwren> someone put there.
<jrwren> and it shouldn't be there, of course :)
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, well no helping people doing wrong things for sure :/
<jrwren> i'm trying to clean up
<lmorchard> snap-l: Heh, Newt BBS?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Later became Whatsamatta U when I moved dorm rooms
<lmorchard> This was more my BBS hood: http://bbslist.textfiles.com/810/
<snap-l> Yeah, my friend ran Olympus
<snap-l> Olympus BBS Mark II
<lmorchard> Got my first job out of college working for Industry BBS, who were turning themselves into a dialup ISP and web hosting niz
<snap-l> Oh very cool
<snap-l> Met the guys who ran surfboard and surfboard II
<snap-l> http://bbslist.textfiles.com/313/
<snap-l> Good times
<lmorchard> I remember a few times in high school carting my amiga and modem over to a friend's house because he was on the edge of different toll-free calling areas, and vice versa
<snap-l> lmorchard: Yeah, I learned what a zone phone call was in those days
<brousch> dorks!
<snap-l> brousch: shush
<brousch> mostly i'm just jealous
<brousch> i didn't compute until college
<lmorchard> I also once got banned from fidonet for a bit by figuring out how to download MODs from aminet with FTP-by-email -> email-by-fidonet
<snap-l> I didn't get a modem until high school
<brousch> please carry on with your belt onion talk
<snap-l> and that was pretty late.
<lmorchard> which seemed like a good idea, but pissed off about 18 BBS sysops as their machines did a bucket brigade carrying all my mods across the country by calling each other at night
<snap-l> lmorchard: Yeah, I could see that causing some problems.
<devinheitmueller> Modem?  I had to modulate and demodulate the signal by hand back in the day...  ;-)
<snap-l> especially since folks paid some serious long-distance charges to keep those networks running
<jrwren> haha, i fail at django. :)
<snap-l> I remember paying $50 phone bills in college to pay for keeping up a network to Ohio
<jrwren> hilarious.
<lmorchard> Yeah, at the time I was mostly likeâ¦ hmm, this can't possibly workâ¦ (1 week later) oh crap, I have 20MB of email on my BBS
<brousch> jrwren: unpossible
<lmorchard> (back when my modem was 2400bps)
<snap-l> lmorchard: brick-shitting time
<snap-l> lmorchard: And BBses weren't equipped to handle that kind of traffic
<brousch> 20MB of ASCIIpr0n?
<brousch> that's all i remember my friend downloading
<lmorchard> It was probably about 18 MB of amiga music mods, and 2 MB of sysops telling to die in a fire
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> I wonder how many of them had disks that ran out of space because of it.
<snap-l> probably non-zero
<lmorchard> Oh, for sure
<lmorchard> I had a 128MB HD in my amiga and thought that was hawt
<jrwren> my Amiga had 2 3.5" micro floppy drives and that is all.
<greg-g> ok, back :)
<brousch> wow, coffeescript looks pretty nice. almost python in javascript
<Blazeix>  /cue rick_h_ asploding
<Blazeix> but i agree, it does look tempting
 * rick_h_ just keeps on typing
<Blazeix> ...into the irc client as he composes his manifesto
<rick_h_> please don't say it's like python though...it's a way to line thigns up
<rick_h_> you can say it's better JS, but really comparing it to python is more than a bit shallow to it
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> hey, I've said I want to do something in coffeescript
<rick_h_> but not going to say it makes JS like Python or ever ruby
<rick_h_> /ever/even
<brousch> it adds a lot of python-like features: default values in functions, list comprehensions
<brousch> things that anger me in JS because they don';t exist
<jrwren> coffeescript adds list comprehensions?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<rick_h_> it's really the only big added language thing, it transforms them to underscore style for loops
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-23
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot! lit up like a christmas tree
<rick_h_> get a ton of looks, but really like riding at night
<brousch> i would poop my pants every time a car went by
<rick_h_> hah, actually was pretty nice
<rick_h_> freaked out one biker who pulled to the side as I came towards her
<rick_h_> kind of hard to miss the blinking thing with twin  beams coming at ya
<brousch> i'm slightly drunk. can someone check this to make sure it's not total crap? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/675/
<greg-g> rick_h_: hah! nice
<greg-g> brousch: on a school night?
<brousch> eh?
<greg-g> drunk
<brousch> yeah, turns out this beer i drank is 9% alcohol
<brousch> at least i'm  at home
<greg-g> brousch: oh nice, founders?
<brousch> brewery vivant
<jjesse> mmmm brewery vivant
<jjesse> was there last night for a work thing
<jjesse> and my hard cider mug was never empty
<jjesse> i think i had 8?
<brousch> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24678/71402
<jjesse> ah i heard that was great
<jjesse> damn my gluten alergy
<brousch> pretty good
<brousch> 9% ki9cks my butt
<greg-g> oooo, a saison, love those
<jjesse> brousch,  did you do a meeting there?
<brousch> no, it is a can i bought
<jjesse> ah nice :)
<rick_h_> uhggg, the soreness is strong
<shakes808> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> reminder CHC tonight
<shakes808> +1 will be there.
<shakes808> I usually get there early. I go right after work
<shakes808> Do we have the room yet?
<rick_h_> party on, more hacking time
<shakes808> I am slowly getting through that tut. I am on step 5 now, making templates. I keep having problems forgetting to start the venv lol I think I have that memorized now lol. :D
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1593/detail/
<rick_h_> shakes808: awesome, repeat is good for you
<shakes808> yeaup :D
<shakes808> snap-l: on that loco.ubuntu link, the FB like and count box is shaking lol almost like it is a kid who knows the answer "OH! OH! OH! PICK ME! PICK ME!"
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> i don't see shaking
<shakes808> I took a video with my phone. working on getting a link to it
<brousch> put it in your dropbox public folder
<brousch> or ubuntuone, if you swing that way.
<shakes808> lol I am at work, haven't fully got into the UbuntuOne thing. I think I set it up. Dropbox it is ;) hold on
<shakes808> it is an mp4, on Windows box at work brought it up in QuickTime. Not sure what others are using or what mp4 is compatible with. I can't change the format of the file that my phone takes. :(
<shakes808> it is about 1/3 uploaded
<brousch> wow, smoothest bug report ever! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloudprint/+bug/1003390
<brousch> found the package, added bug, off it went.
<shakes808> Went up on google docs faster :D https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwyEnz3QXUWfdHJYdmNVNG9Xd1U
<brousch> freakish
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> yeah, IE for ya ;)
<brousch> you poor, poor man
<shakes808> Doesn't happen in Chrome
<shakes808> IE needs to go away
<shakes808> or get better lol
<shakes808> The compatibility for IE v EVERY OTHER browser is horrid in about 80% of newer conventions of CSS and JS
<shakes808> That is one thing I don't like about web dev.
<shakes808> making things IE compatible v Chrome/FF/Safari... capatible lol
<brousch> rick_h_ says you're doing it wrong. go read more YUI docs
<shakes808> HA HA
<snap-l> shakes808: It's by design. I think all Facebook buttons shake
<snap-l> like the ol' punch the monkey banner ads
<brousch> only IE supports the <vibrate> tag
<shakes808> lol
<jcastro> rick_h_: snap-l what kind of microphones do you guys use for your podcast?
<rick_h_> jcastro: snap-l  uses a snowball and I use an audio technica AT2020
<rick_h_> jcastro: oh sorry, I upgraded to the at 2035
<jcastro> ah, I was thinking about a snowball
<rick_h_> I think he dreams up upgrading to the yeti
<rick_h_> so I'd start there if you were going fresh
<jcastro> ooh that looks nice
<rick_h_> yea, think it's an upgraded snowball
<jcastro> do you have like a fancy arm for yours
<rick_h_> yea
<jjesse> for all the webcasts and videos i do at work i use a snowball
<rick_h_> nice for swinging in for stand ups, out of the wya when done
<jjesse> as the mic
<jcastro> oh dude, it has a headphone output right on it
<jcastro> SOLD
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://plus.google.com/photos/fromphone/5730219334788248274 can you see that?
<jcastro> nope
<snap-l> I love the snowball mic, but I'd love to play with the Yeti sometime
<snap-l> just to see if it sounds better
<rick_h_> jcastro: shared the pic with you on G+
<jcastro> this is for G+ and Google On Air! things
<jcastro> so it really just needs to be better  than the built in mic on my camera
<rick_h_> yea, not hard
<jcastro> yeti is a nice price too
<snap-l> Snowball will get you that in spades
<jcastro> should I get a pop filter thing?
<rick_h_> jcastro: you just try a noise cancelling BT headset?
<rick_h_> I did that for a G+ hangout at the coffee shop the other day
<jcastro> snap-l: snowball looks like it needs a stand
<rick_h_> wonder if that would just sound nice
<snap-l> jcastro: it comes with a desk stand
<jcastro> rick_h_: no more BT for me, that tech can die in a fire
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> jcastro: BT is great, when it works
<jcastro> snap-l: is there a headphone plug on it too?
<snap-l> jcastro: No
<jcastro> damn
<snap-l> It just has a USB port on the back, as well as a directional switch
<snap-l> I've actually taken it apart. It's pretty solid inside
<jcastro> the yeti has a headphone jack, I'd need that, now that I take my layout into account
<jcastro> (my computer is under my desk)
<snap-l> jcastro: You won't hurt my feelings one iota if you get a Yeti
<rick_h_> jcastro: other thing is to just run a cable
<rick_h_> I'm going to run a headphone extender and mount it under the front of hte standing desk
<jcastro> snap-l: we're gearheads, I can't buy the same model as you, I have to go further!
<snap-l> just understand that what you're hearing in the headphone jack might not be 100% what is getting fed to the computer
<jcastro> well I was thinking so I didn't need to use external speakers during a call
<snap-l> I think the headphone jack is just for the mic
<snap-l> not for the computer
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I plug into my laptop itself, but want to run a a real line from the doc and mountit right under the lip of the desktop as an easy plug point
<jcastro> that's a good idea for when I move and have a more permanent desk
<snap-l> Oh, it is a two-way
<snap-l> n/m me then
<jcastro> where did you find that?
<snap-l> http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/08/11/blue_yeti_mic/
<snap-l> jcastro: Normal caveats of pulseaudio apply.
<jcastro> right, I haven't investigated that yet
<jcastro> the only bummer is I like to type when I talk
<jcastro> and there's really no way around that other than a headset
<snap-l> jcastro: If you had a quiet keyboard, you wouldn't have a problem with that. :)
<rick_h_> yea, why I like the mic on an arm
<jcastro> rick_h_: ah ok, so I can eventually get an arm
<jcastro> oh hey guys, I'm home this weekend
<rick_h_> can move it away from the keyboard, mic right in the mouth kind of thing
<jcastro> if you guys want to do shit on friday lmk
<snap-l> Yeah,, even the snowball can be put on an arm
<rick_h_> jcastro: dude!
<snap-l> jcastro: Totally
<jcastro> I was going to go hang out with aaron and the other guys
<jcastro> this is our short trip but we'll be back a few weeks after
<jcastro> rick_h_: you use headphones too right?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea
<snap-l> I don't when we're on the call, and I have no problems with feedback
<jcastro> hey if you're on an arm, and the speakers are behind the mic, can you get away w/o headphones?
<jcastro> for calls I mean, not like, podcasts.
<snap-l> at least none that I'm aware of.
<jcastro> ah good good
<rick_h_> jcastro: no idea, just haven't tried it
<snap-l> I usually have things down pretty lown, though, so YMMV
<snap-l> if your calls sound like you're standing in front of the MCP, it might have feedback issues.
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I need to find a better way to do audio in my office
<jcastro> I think I need to bite the bullet and get a receiver
<jcastro> too many inputs
<snap-l> jcastro: Come back to Michigan. We have less echo
<jcastro> we're coming back so she can interview
<jcastro> so yeah, probably
<snap-l> (hope hope hope)
<snap-l> lmk where we can send the bribery
<jcastro> she has two interviews this week
<jcastro> one for Ann Arbor
<jcastro> one for Birmingham
<snap-l> I can't afford birmingham
<jcastro> and if you could, would you?
<jcastro> I'd prefer to live outside of it
 * jcastro is partial to Rochester Hills
<snap-l> I mean t to send bribes
<jcastro> oh
<snap-l> Hardest part about Birmingham is navigating around black cadillacs driven by women who can barely see over the sterring wheel, and are determined to take that parking spot.
<jcastro> I just hate richers </southpark>
<snap-l> I <3 that the expense report (in Excel) and receipts (electronically delivered) for software and ebooks (electronically delivered) has to be printed and physically signed.
<snap-l> made sure to use the fountain pen to sign it. :)
<brousch> Another good deal on a 120GB SSD http://goo.gl/H63jX
<jcastro> rick_h_: I am disappoint on the new Thinkpads
<jcastro> was hoping the X1 would be smaller
<jcastro> I want an ultrabook now
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I didn't get that
<jcastro> but a proper thinkpad
<rick_h_> I'm going to get the x230 and give it a shot
<jcastro> the X230 looks awesome
<rick_h_> I've heard ok things about the keybaord change
<jcastro> but man, it's the same laptop I have now
<rick_h_> it's my upgrade come june
<jcastro> nice
<jcastro> My 220 is falling apart
<jcastro> so I'm close
<rick_h_> you currently have i7 gen 3 with 8gb of ram/
<jcastro> I like the thinkpad chiclet, it's the one thing I miss from the X120e I sold snap-l
<rick_h_> heh, my 201 is cooking string, thinking if seeing if hte wife wants it
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, the prices have come down dramatically. Was looking at Best Buy, and they had similar Intel models pretty cheap
<rick_h_> ok, well I'm nervous, but will hold out hope
<jcastro> I have an x220i, it's an i3 with 4gb of RAM
<jcastro> I don't need like, i7's and stuff, I use the cloud. :)
<snap-l> I love the keyboard on the X120e
<snap-l> rick_h_: If you want to try it at CHC tonight, LMK
<rick_h_> jcastro: you don't have to run launchpad tests :P
<jcastro> indeed
<rick_h_> but yea, I'm just hoping the kernel is precise is ready
<rick_h_> I don't want to have to do quantal too early because of drivers
<rick_h_> :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's usually why I hang back on new hardware
<snap-l> I hate arrows, and the view from behind is pretty nice.
<rick_h_> yea, but I'm eager for upgrade, it's a double edge sword. with the 2 dozen launchpad ppas I need to worry about ugh
<rick_h_> it's either that or I do go desktop, but then I know I'll regret going back to two full machines again
<snap-l> Get a beefy SSH box. ;)
<brousch> i buy 2 or 3 year old machines
<jcastro> you'll be fine on all the new thinkpads with precise
<jcastro> ivy bridge runs awesome ootb all across the board
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, hoping that's the case
<jcastro> no it's the case, it's all certified already
 * jcastro has been following with the hardware enablement guys
<rick_h_> nice, in that case "take my $$ lenovo!"
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> he couldn't really tell me at first
<jcastro> but it was like "wait until April wink wink"
<rick_h_> june is what's been reported, start of june
<rick_h_> review time just finished up at a good time :)
<snap-l> btw: We updated the MUG site last night
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/membership/
<snap-l> Yes, there is actually information on how to join. AMAZING!
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> going all professional...what have you done to my MUG?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Pretty soon you'll get electronic invoices for membership
<brousch> you need a new logo
<snap-l> No more spending $100 on postage
<snap-l> brousch: We have one, but we need to find the files
<snap-l> MUG has been around 25 years
<snap-l> Hoping to get a presentation on the history of MUG at some point
<rick_h_> hah, cool idea
<snap-l> WEll, we have this amazing history that only a few members know about
<jrwren> wtf is brewery vivant?
<shakes808> snap-l: LOL got the paypal stuff up on there now :D
 * jrwren is reading the log, can you tell?
<jrwren> zomg, GR brewery I didn't know about.
<snap-l> shakes808: I can neither confirm or deny that you helped aid that.
<shakes808> Soon :D
<shakes808> HA HA
<rick_h_> jrwren: you weren't there man...you wouldn't understand :P
<brousch> jrwren: a newish microbrewery in GR http://www.breweryvivant.com/
<brousch> it's maybe 2 years old?
<brousch> it's in an old church
<snap-l> All of the good breweries and restaurants are.
<shakes808> That looks nice
<shakes808> But here is where I go
<shakes808> http://www.dragonmead.com/
<brousch> wow, hook them up with a new website
<shakes808> I have thought about it
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> maybe when I get a little better with the python stuff, I can experiment on it :D ;)
<brousch> even Shmohz's site is better, and it's a hole in the wall http://schmohz.com/
<shakes808> I am going to mess around with my other live site when I get my python skillz honed better as well
<shakes808> brousch: that site is a wordpress site. Dragon Mead's site looks like it was made from scratch.
<rick_h_> you guys check out the google doodle?
<rick_h_> I imagine that's where snap-l disappeared to
<jrwren> jcastro: YAY FOR COMING BACK!
<jrwren> jcastro: pick ann arbor. There is much better beer here.
<shakes808> n00b question, if I build a computer, could I load iOS?L
<jrwren> shakes808: dragonmead is nice.
<shakes808> jrwren: Jolly Pumpkin's is delicious :D
<shakes808> haha
<brousch> shakes808: you can build what's called a hackintosh and load OSX on it, but that's not really legal. as far as i know you can't load iOS on anything except what apple has blessed
<shakes808> That is what I thought
<shakes808> Thank you
<shakes808> a buddy was asking and that is about what I said to him, wanted confirmation
<snap-l> rick_h_: har har
<snap-l> shakes808: I think you mean MacOSX
<rick_h_> oh come on, you're not recording some tunes?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I already have software synths. :)
<shakes808> yeah, all the same lol Apple
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> but yeah, this is an awesome doodle
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rot9uaVO8s&feature=player_embedded speaking of awesome
<shakes808> On America's Got Talent over the weekend there was something like this
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9eliSCvq0U&feature=related
<shakes808> That is really cool
<rick_h_> yea, love that punch sequence
<greg-g> rick_h_: thanks for that :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm on my 3rd viewing, so awesome
<rick_h_> after this I'll get back to work, promise!
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I have this grant proposal to right today, but that was a good way to start the day
<greg-g> right? write
<greg-g> wow, good thing I'm not the last pass :)
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> brousch: what is "illegal" about hackintosh.
<jrwren> A: nothing, but you break a EULA (which is no "illegal")
<brousch> fine
<brousch> sorry, should have been more pedantic in my response
<brousch> the google doodle killed my laptop's midi
<brousch> played 1 note, scratch, now nothing
<jrwren> rick_h_: do you import logging and then logger=logging.getLogger(__name__) and then logger.info(..) in many of your modules?
<greg-g> define illegal: if it is against the EULA, then it is illegal (see definition #2: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal )
<jrwren> specifically do you do so in django views so you can observe runtime behavior?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh, in django views...not sure on that yet
<rick_h_> we don't have logging setup right in our current thing atm
<rick_h_> jrwren: if it's dev/etc I tend to use ipdb
<rick_h_> logging is just for...well loggging
<jrwren> well, if you didn't do django, I'd be asking about your pylons controllers nad views.
<rick_h_> so yea, I do some logging if it's important, warning/info level
<rick_h_> or running a test, and I go back and check teh logs
<jrwren> I'm thinking more QA/Prod
<rick_h_> but generally not really, logging can be expensive, disk access, etc
<jrwren> I'd like to be able to answer questions when my users say "such and such happened..>"
<jrwren> off by default of course :)
<rick_h_> that stuff should generally should go more into an external app like sentry/etc
<jrwren> how does that work?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, so I think my answer is yes
<rick_h_> jrwren: basically ships the data off to a sync call to a web service
<rick_h_> and then you can monitor/aggregate across installs, do searching/etc
<jrwren> ah, interesing
<rick_h_> https://github.com/dcramer/sentry
<rick_h_> so say you run 3 app servers, they report to a single sentry you monitor
<rick_h_> jrwren: so beware logging, anything you do in that logging is run
<rick_h_> so if you format a string, etc, it's called even if hte logging is off
<jrwren> yup, was already there reading :)
<rick_h_> the .debug/info/etc is still a function call that runs
<jrwren> and the string formatting and expense case is the same as .NET :)
<rick_h_> ok, yea so you can hurt yourself if you do stuff like log.debug(someexpensivefunction())
<jrwren> right.
<rick_h_> right, but you might log more than a string
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> i had sent a patch to log4net that took llambdas
<jrwren> log.debug( lambda: someexpsnsivefunction())
<rick_h_> ah, nice
<jrwren> and the imple of debug checks if logging is on and if not doesn't execute
<jrwren> even less typing in C# cuz the lambda: becomes()=>
<jrwren> ha, less characters, more keystrocks cuz of all teh SHIFT
<jrwren> wow, my typing is terrible. appologies.
<jrwren> anyone know the story behind dhclient logging to syslog verbosely by defualt?
<jrwren> or has it always been that way and I just didn't know it?
<snap-l> verbosely as in logging every time it hiccups?
<snap-l> That's been like that for a few releases no
<snap-l> at least it's been that way on my 11.04 machine
<snap-l> Can't remember precisely when it changed.
<brousch> jcastro? http://wtfcontent.com/img/133350120446.jpg
<snap-l> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Representative-Table.aspx
<devinheitmuell-1> snap-l: I wonder what happens if somebody specifies month "NULL".
<devinheitmuell-1> :-)
<snap-l> Or if soemone enters muerte";drop table dates;
 * devinheitmuell-1 thinks of "Little Bobby Tables"
<snap-l> a-yep
<devinheitmuell-1> xkcd.com/327/
<brousch> there is 1 comment http://www.mlive.com/opinion/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/05/question_of_the_day_how_can_gr.html
<rick_h_> crap, forgot the headphones at the coffee shop again :/
<snap-l> Might have someone else coming to CHC tonight
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> who you wrangling up?
<devinheitmuell-1> I miss CHC.  :-(
<snap-l> The founder of Olark.com
<rick_h_> I still don't think we have the room, but maybe
<rick_h_> oh yea? awesome. I know some of those guys
<rick_h_> steiza/etc
<rick_h_> good guys, on my backup list when I joined canonical
<snap-l> Yeah, Ben Congleton
<rick_h_> nice
<greg-g> Ben? he's an SI grad
<greg-g> (the school I attended there)
<snap-l> Yeah, Mouly sent him my way.
<snap-l> Ann Arbor: The Silicon Valley of the mitten state
<greg-g> MOULY!
<greg-g> I still have one of Moul's books, heh
<greg-g> Mouly, that is
<snap-l> Yeah, he wondered if I remembered him
<snap-l> Nobody forgets Mouly
<snap-l> Also, is it just me, or has the inclusion of Lucia pretty much made KMFDM albums the same?
<snap-l> Seriously, I used to wait patiently for nw albums, now I couldn't care less.
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/shocking-revelations/metallica-cant-live-off-their-royalties-anymore?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+metalinjection+%28Metal+Injection+%3A%3A+Latest+Updates%29
<nixternal> Host 'CaboWabo', running Linux 3.2.0-24-generic - Cpu0: Intel 2327 MHz Cpu1: Intel 2327 MHz Cpu2: Intel 2327 MHz Cpu3: Intel 2327 MHz; Up: 11d+18:15; Users: 1; Load: 1.32; Free: [Mem: 133/1994 Mio] [Swap: 2036/2036 Mio] [/: 216089/235910 Mio] [/boot: 189/228 Mio]; Vpenis: 113.1 cm;
<nixternal> reboot time. damn kernel upgrades
<greg-g> 11days uptime with a 113cm penis?
<snap-l> Apparently those e-mails really do work
<greg-g> even cumulatively
<jjesse> nnWOW
<jjesse> wow
<snap-l> I love the judge in the Google / Oracle trial
<snap-l> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57439320-38/oracle-google-jury-stymied-by-more-technical-questions/
<devinheitmuell-1> snap-l: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/05/google-v-oracle-no-patent-infringement-found/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<devinheitmuell-1> Google v. Oracle: no patent infringement found
<greg-g> weee
<snap-l> That makes me very, very happy
<snap-l> Now if we can get the API issue out of the way
<snap-l> I'm so happy we got a programming judge
<snap-l> plus he laid into the lawyers for essentially muddying up the waters
<jrwren> snap-l: KMFDM has been pretty generic for 15 yrs.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I got bored during WWIII
<snap-l> Haven't really picked up much since then
<snap-l> Actually, my frined got me Hau Ruck for Christmas one year
<brousch> what did i do to deserve this? "@rails_apps is now following you on Twitter"
<jrwren> i still like nihil and the one before it.
<jrwren> wtf is the one with light and drug against war?
<brousch> sadness http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/05/23/djangobook-schluss.html
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> django needs a new book.
<jrwren> most are very old.
<jrwren> I've got a 1.1 and a 1.0
<jrwren> and i'm targetting 1.2 :(
<brousch> heh, and 1.4 is current
<snap-l> jrwren: Angst
<waldo323_> is there a location for deprecated repos? looking to upgrade a machine from jaunty up to present but the jaunty repos are gone
<greg-g> old-releases.ubuntu.com I believe
<greg-g> waldo323_: ^
<waldo323_> thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-24
<shakes808> I am getting this error when trying to upload to github:
<shakes808>  ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast-forward)
<shakes808> error: failed to push some refs to 'MY FILE PATH'
<shakes808> To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected
<shakes808> Merge the remote changes (e.g. 'git pull') before pushing again.  See the
<shakes808> 'Note about fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.
<shakes808> got it, had to pull because of the README file
<nixternal> damn, i just found old pictures from penguicon. definitely going next year. greg-g you have to go too dude
<shakes808> ... I uploaded 4 files and now they are gone from my box and not on github
<shakes808> where would they have gone?
<rick_h_> bah, so picasa and G+ merging is near complete it appears
<shakes808> good morning
<brousch> gm
<snap-l> Good morning
<shakes808> Awesome shirt
<shakes808> http://shirt.woot.com/
<snap-l> btw: I played way too long with civicrm last night
<rick_h_> snap-l: :)
<shakes808> snap-l: what?
<rick_h_> any success?
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/meetings/
<snap-l> That's auto-generated
<snap-l> Membership stuff is proving a little tricky
<snap-l> Apparently WP did some changes to how it munged URLs, and civicrm hasn't caught up
<snap-l> Bah, there's a new version
<snap-l> Wonder if it has the love I'm looking for
<snap-l> Hm, don't think so, but it looks promising
<snap-l> but, it does have membership management
<brousch> you can modify how wordpress generates urls
<snap-l> So I think we can get more current
<snap-l> brousch: right, but 3.3.2 apparently busted one of the methods
<snap-l> and I didn't find an alternate
<snap-l> and it was 1am
<brousch> i got the go-ahead to buy a tablet for our project manager at work so he can bring all of the drawings into the field, take dimensions and photos, access email
<brousch> this'll be fun
<nullspace> yawn
<snap-l> nullspace: are we keeping you awake?
<shakes808> nullspace: take a look at this, maybe make you laugh for a moment and amuse you to stay awake for the next 5 mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJxyuTMMog&feature=endscreen&NR=1
<nullspace> just needed some coffee
<nullspace> snap-l: how goes the web dev job...?
<brousch> i'm looking at a eee pad transformer tf101g tablet. it has "Mobile broadband: GSM Quad bands, HSPA+ (I,II,V,VIII)". anyone know if that means it will work on ATT?
<snap-l> http://9gag.com/gag/4258072
<snap-l> Guitar Hero is now on Linux
<jrwren> o_O
<jrwren> hahahahah
<snap-l> I'm an uncaring bastard
<snap-l> Reading mailing lists where someone say "I'm having such and such problem with Windows because ..."
<snap-l> and all I see is "... because I'm not running Linux"
<snap-l> shameful
<jrwren> its a fair thought.
<jrwren> i used to have it often when running windows.
<jrwren> "Linux would NEVER take this long to login, and even if it did, I'd be able to fix it."   I still have that every time I login to my windows machine (which is only monthly)
<snap-l> jrwren: It's mostly gcc errors, or other environmental errors
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> cygwin?
<snap-l> something of that ilk, yes
<brousch> ok, this is kind of cool http://www.jacobian.org/writing/auto-building-sphinx/
<jcastro> how's the weather up there guys?
<jcastro> shorts or jeans?
<rick_h_> shorts, hot stuff
<rick_h_> 85 today
<rick_h_> ugh, 90 by monday
<rick_h_> when does my flight to portland leave?
<jcastro> it's been raining here
<rick_h_> they say rain sat some, but we'll see
<jrwren> you are going to portland?!? *jealous*
<rick_h_> no, I want to move there
<rick_h_> but wife won't let me
<rick_h_> hot days like this makes my desire to move greater
<jrwren> rick_h_: The spirit of the 90s is still alive, in portland.
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> everyone wants to live in their high school years right?
<jrwren> rick_h_: portland is at the top of my list too.
<jrwren> oh damn, i quoted it wrong.
<jrwren> The dream of the 90s is still alive in portland
<rick_h_> doh, close enough for me
<rick_h_> still want to go
<rick_h_> currently 51 in portland
<jrwren> You know, the 1990s where piercings and working in coffee shops and forming bands were actual things that people did.
<rick_h_> high today of 58 woot!
<rick_h_> 73 tomorrow, oooh...so perfect
<brousch> i read that once global warming really kicks in West MI will have weather similar to Portland's now
<snap-l> What exactly was the dream of the nineties? TO be a bunch of hipster hippie wannabies?
<jrwren> brousch: i can't wait to move to South Haven.
<rick_h_> snap-l: to spend a small fortune on AC?
<jrwren> snap-l: grunge was WAY before hipster.
<snap-l> Best thing Kurt Cobain did for music was pulling a trigger
<rick_h_> grunge ftw :) /me goes looking for his collection of black jeans, black flannels, and black metallica shirts
<jrwren> snap-l: oh come on. Billy Ho is a fun song.
<snap-l> That's not grunge. That's Goth from Hot Topic
<rick_h_> this is when you learn that snap-l is a little bit ahead of us in terms of time
<rick_h_> psh, this was pre hot topic by about a decade or two
<jrwren> he'd have to be. have you seen his prog rock listen list?
<rick_h_> no, I appreciate snap-l's passion for music, but don't know we share much in actual tastes
<snap-l> Nirvana's "Nevermind" wasn't a cool title, it was sage advice for future generations
<brousch> nirvana unplugged in new york is still the best album ever made
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> EVAR
<jrwren> LOL.
<jrwren> bullshit.
<jrwren> and i honestly feel sorry for you if you believe that.
<snap-l> I had the album. I listened to it. I got bored
<brousch> i could listen to it 12 hours a day
<snap-l> Smashing Pumpkins Gish: Listened. Liked. Got Bored. Sold.
<jrwren> snap-l: same
<snap-l> Soundgarden Badmotorfinger: Listened. Meh. Got Bored. Sold.
<brousch> smashing pumpkins voice is annoying
<rick_h_> pumpkins!
<jrwren> snap-l: but i feel that way for most music of that style and esp that era.
 * rick_h_ goes back to his weezer/greenday playlist
<jrwren> although for some reason Catherine Wheel comes to mind and I want to listen to it.
<brousch> now we're talkin
<snap-l> I respect Billy, I think he's a great musician
 * jrwren is listening ot Laibach :)
<rick_h_> man, I found the voices annoying of AC/DC and Beastie Boys...
<snap-l> but it's not something I want to listen to more than once
<rick_h_> pumpkins, never a problem
<rick_h_> mayonaise ftw!
<snap-l> The 90s made Thrash Metal go away
<brousch> axle rose has the best voice
<jrwren> is that a song on an album? sounds familiar.
<snap-l> and now Thrash is back
<snap-l> I rue the grunge revival
<jrwren> i'm very picky with metal. just a few bands I like
<snap-l> Fortunately with Metal now having an internet network, I don't have to participate.
<jrwren> YAY!
<snap-l> Y'all can have your Alice in Chains, your Social Distortion, your Bush, your Hootie and the fuckin' Blowfish
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's a pumpkin tune I'm particular to
<rick_h_> oh man, AIC, Social D yes!
<rick_h_> hootie...ummm...that's chick stuff :P
<brousch> spin doctors
<snap-l> 12 hours clockwork orange style with Rick and my music collection. That's all I ask.
<jrwren> I do like AiC
<rick_h_> then again my first CD ever bought was Metallica Black
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh ffs
<brousch> alice in chains unplugged is also awesome
<rick_h_> yea, dirt is awesome
<jrwren> dirt and facelift
<rick_h_> snap-l: I had some cassettes before that, but not a ton, but I got into music in the black, perl jam, etc era
<snap-l> (though my first CD was Byran Adams, so I have no room to talk)
<rick_h_> hah, I had one of those
<jrwren> that reminds me, i downloaded some Prince that I want to listen to
<rick_h_> speaking of things I could never get into
<rick_h_> wtf do people find in Prince?
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> my first tape was dj jazzy jeff and the fresh prince
<jrwren> VERY hit and miss.
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> First Three Discs: Bryan Adams: INto the Fire, Bon Jovie: Slippery when wet, and Joe Jackson: Big World.
<snap-l> Guess which of the three I still have
<brousch> bon jovia? omg
 * brousch unsubscribes from OMC
<jrwren> what is the Joe Jackson like?
<rick_h_> hah, used to listen to jovi in elementry school during lunch break
<jrwren> I really know nothing about him.
<rick_h_> I'm with jrwren, "who?"
<snap-l> OK, start with Look Sharp
<snap-l> move through Night and Day
<snap-l> and then Blaze of Glory
<snap-l> then purchase the rest of his catalog
<jrwren> really????
<snap-l> Yep
<jrwren> you are that pro Joe?
<jrwren> i only know him from one song he did with Shatner.
<snap-l> I love his stuff
<snap-l> He's a musician's Musician
<snap-l> Put it another way: ANthrax covered Got The Time
<snap-l> I tried for months to try to get my high-school band Blackat Chiquita to cover it
<snap-l> suddenly Anthrax covers it, and I'm a visionary. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: You might not like the earlier stuff. Not sure if you like New Wave
<snap-l> But he moves out of that in Night and Day
<snap-l> And Blaze of Glory shows a more mature musician.
<brousch> oh, for you geeks with children, this book is pretty cool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756690153/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
<jrwren> ok, this is a weird question, but when and what song is that jock jams song ?
<jrwren> you know. THAT jock jams song.
<jrwren> Gary Glitter - Rock'n Roll 1972. WOW, I had no idea that was that old.
<jrwren> I ask becuase I'm LMAO at Doctorin' The Tardis by The Timelords.
<snap-l> jrwren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3NDP-Qiak
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK5c4O-pKec
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNvRTwNzTr8
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopneKcyNXU
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjn2Q5oIBY
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcd4f6dMHUk
<rick_h_> ummm... https://github.com/languages
<snap-l> Fuck, Ada doesn't even rank
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> coffeescript makes the list now :/
<rick_h_> brousch: material for your meet up ^^
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, everyone's rewriting their Javascript todolist applications in it.
<snap-l> I'll wager all of that Javascript yet another god-damn framework and jQuery plugins
<snap-l> "Forked project blah blah because that jackass wouldn't accept my color scheme"
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> django has good docs my @#$#@
<brousch> no, no. django has many docs
<rick_h_> so they're called "Api" docs
<rick_h_> but they don't show the api
<rick_h_> so I go "well...that's retarded it can't do XX"
<rick_h_> and then later find a blog post saying "Pass this kwarg that wasn't in the "api" docs"
<nullspace> some might even be empty or just include a header, description and some references
<rick_h_> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#ref-forms-api-bound-unbound seems like the place to find out about binding data to a form
<rick_h_> but nothing mentions the instance kwarg...
<rick_h_> I've got to go find this: http://www.ironzebra.com/news/3/how-to-quickly-create-a-django-edit-form-from-object-instance
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<brousch> forms are one of their painpoints
<brousch> there are a couple of newer modules that are supposedly better
<rick_h_> but it's all magical and unicorns!
<rick_h_> the docs are > *
<brousch> django-uni-form
<brousch> django-floppyforms
<brousch> i think floppy is the current hotness
<brousch> djangofloppyform
<brousch> s
<rick_h_> !@#@! I can't even just import the damn thing in bpython because I need a settings crap setup first?
<rick_h_> you've got to be kidding me
<greg-g> uh oh
 * greg-g steps away from rick_h_ and covers himself with a heat shield
<rick_h_> I mean seriously..who ever heard of not being able to import a module until you've done config/setup first?
<rick_h_> this is the great python hope... "I'm sorry...you've not declared your intentions. I can't let you import that module at all"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Apparently Django developers have.
<rick_h_> this is what you get when you let newspaper people run things :P
<rick_h_> and this silently fail template BS is for the birds
<rick_h_> ok, ready to do battle. Downloaded Django and have it open in an editor so I can view the api while I work
<rick_h_> this is truly what linux workspaces were meant for...fixing stupid docs
<rick_h_> have I mentioned lately that if you can't read source code go read some now? :)
<greg-g> heh
<jrwren> rick_h_: django settings?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, if you just do a fresh venv, and instlal django, and launch python
<rick_h_> you can't import certain modules because you lack django settings
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> from django.config import settings
<rick_h_> I just want to explore the freaking code in the shell, I'm not trying to run
<jrwren> all you need AFAIK
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/676/
<brousch> maybe you need to make a project
<brousch> and empty project
<rick_h_> I just want to browse the code, not setup a project.
<rick_h_> it wants me to setup an ENV like I'm running stuff, but I'm not
<brousch> ah, i see
<rick_h_> you know me...always "doing it wrong"
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> Maybe it's you. :)
<rick_h_> I'm sure it is
<snap-l> remind me not to taunt rick_h_. He knows where I live
<snap-l> and where i work
<brousch> quit exploring. just do what the docs tell you to do!
<rick_h_> though I do feel a little better that the requests library author favorited that tweet
<rick_h_> brousch: I would but the docs don't tell me :P
<snap-l> He'll go all Jeff Foxworthy on me. "Here's your spine"
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I might still have backdoor access to rm -rf your git repos :P
<snap-l> (and don't correct me if I'm wrong on the comic. I really don't care)
<brousch> isn't jeff foxworth "you might be a redneck"?
<snap-l> brousch: see above
<brousch> FIX IT
<snap-l> NO
<jrwren> rick_h_: oh yeah, you need a settings.py
<jrwren> django can't run without it.
<brousch> rick_h_: what module wouldn't install without config?
<jrwren> and I know you aren't "running" it, but it can't do much of anthing without settings. an empty settings module might be fine
<rick_h_> brousch: any python module in the world you can import and dir(something)
<brousch> right, but which one wouldn't?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I've just opened the django up in vim and doing pure source.
<jrwren> rick_h_: that is great too.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, except for my linting going nuts lol
<jrwren> rick_h_: i was able to trick it by touching __init__.py and settings.py and starting ipython with DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=settings
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, I just think that's retarded as hell as a python dev
<rick_h_> therefor I shall rant to the world!
<jrwren> i'm not enough of a python dev to know
<rick_h_> so I've been working on learning/hacking in python for coming up on 5yrs and I think this is the first time I recall ever hitting something like this
<jrwren> *nod*
<brousch> rick_h_: well now you're finally using enterprise-class python modules instead of those toy projects
 * brousch peers to the east in anticipation of the nuclear mushroom cloud
<rick_h_> jrwren: you ever run into guys that just hate the idea of mocking out methods/etc for tests?
<jrwren> rick_h_: what are tests? :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: i am a guy who hatest mocking out methods for tests.
<jrwren> i really cant stand mocks.
<jrwren> but i guess they are a necessarily evil.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so do you end up creating subclasses and things of the existing code and having hidden _fake params to classes so you can fake out parts of the code?
<jrwren> rick_h_: in python? no way.
<jrwren> rick_h_: inverse the dependencies and inject teh fakes
<rick_h_> I'm trying to understand this other guy in my squad. He's all about subclassing things, overwriting the method I would mock with Mock, and then using it for things
<jrwren> so obviously I'm a fan of fakes when it comes to mocking :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: that is a valid way to do it when you can refactor to inject.
<rick_h_> but he ends up with classes that take _something where _something is only provided in tests to inject a fake object
<jrwren> it is straight out of "Working Effectively With Legacy Code"
<rick_h_> and I'm just wonder why not use the tools available and patch the object with somehting fake
<jrwren> but if you are testing first, you would never come up with that.
<jrwren> rick_h_: maybe he did too much java in the past :)
<rick_h_> yea, but that's also limited to java in a lot of ways where you can't do as much direct monkey patching fakes in place
<jrwren> rick_h_: exactly
<jrwren> rick_h_: but you can always inverse dependencies.
<Blazeix> there is something to be said for the overall pattern of dependency injection, though
<jrwren> rick_h_: its why Java has the Factory Factory Factory problem.
<jrwren> because you can't have virtual constructors.
<Blazeix> having all your dependencies listed up front can be useful
<rick_h_> yea, I need to sit down and get educated because I just look at it and it seems like so much pointless litter among the code
<jrwren> Blazeix: yeah, its applicable in python for sure.
<rick_h_> but when I changed it once I got asked to change it back
<jrwren> hell, its straight up strategy pattern and its just that one of your strategies is for test.
<rick_h_> so the guy's been doing python a long while and worked on big things like bzr/etc
<Blazeix> rick_h_: is this the code you showed me? that wasn't dependency injection though,
<rick_h_> so I know he's a smart guy, but obviously opinionated in this stuff
<Blazeix> he was just subclassing/overriding, i thought
<rick_h_> Blazeix: that's an exmaple, today he flat has a def __init__(self, _curl=None):
<Blazeix> ah ok
<rick_h_> where _curl is just there to insert a fake curl object he creates
<Blazeix> right, that's a pretty popular pattern in the .NET/java world
<rick_h_> right, but I don't get that in the python world so much
<rick_h_> because he's doing: +        if _curl is None:
<rick_h_> 62	+            _curl = pycurl.Curl()
<rick_h_> but could just do with patched(pycurl, "Curl") as mock: ...
<Blazeix> sure, the monkey patching thing is pretty awesome too. i do think inverted dependencies are more readable, though
<snap-l> I'm sorry, but did anyone else see "bzr code" and immediately think "his whole argument is suspect"?
<snap-l> (the rick_h_ developer partner, not rick_h_ )
<rick_h_> heh, well I'm not fan of bzr, but the guys behind it can write some python
<Blazeix> oh, i didn't catch the code sample rick_h_ pasted
<Blazeix> so he's not actually gaining any loose coupling benefits
<rick_h_> Blazeix: not that I can tell
<rick_h_> but I've seen the pattern before in other code
<Blazeix> ok, that is a little bit weird
<jrwren> snap-l: yes, but I didn't say anything :)
<rick_h_> at some point I'll have to get him a few drinks and have him explain his thoughts behind the stuff
<rick_h_> he's a bit defensive/etc ootb so didn't push too hard :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: oh, that is the inversion thing to which I was refering. So i'd probably do it his way too.
<jrwren> but its only because its what I am familiar with.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm not trying to trash it, but I'm not seeing the immediate advantages so curious what I'm missing
<rick_h_> I mean some things are just matters of taste, but even that can often have some particular bug/issue that created that taste
<rick_h_> I think all of LP teams have done too much Java...I mean Python via Zope :P
<Blazeix> yeah, his specific pattern doesn't seem super useful, but next CHC i can show you where it gets useful if you take it one step further
<rick_h_> Blazeix: cool, we'll melt shakes8081's brain with an all out testing patterns discussion :)
<Blazeix> hah
<shakes8081> rick_h_: BRING IT ON!!!!!
<shakes8081> lol
<brousch> DAMNIT. WHY AM I SO FAR AWAY FROM THE AWESOME?
<shakes8081> rick_h_: Does the "testing pattern discussion" incorperate what I am learning? Or is it for a much later headache?
<rick_h_> shakes8081: later
<rick_h_> I remember going to MichiPug meetings and they'd be talking over my head on stuff
<rick_h_> but learn a lot and slowly catch up, it could be one of those if we let it
<shakes8081> Well Obe Won'Ricknobe, whatever you think is best ;)
<rick_h_> hmmm, I can't decide if I like this or not... https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/forms/modelforms/#the-save-method
<rick_h_> it seems strange for the form object to save the model
<snap-l> If it's any consolation, I'm still design-pattern deficient
<brousch> of course you don't like it. it's django
<rick_h_> brousch: naw, if it was that I'd be like "WTF?! What moron decided that this was a good thing?"
<rick_h_> I'm much milder...so it means I'm thinking about it still :)
<brousch> can you use any of the newer form modules?
<rick_h_> not currently
<rick_h_> I'm assuming they'd do that part the same
<brousch> i've been watching all of the old djangocon talks to pick up on stuff
<shakes8081> snap-l: we can learn together lol
<jrwren> imo memorizing patterns is not useful.
<brousch> jrwren: so you support the pattern memorization anti-pattern?
<snap-l> jrwren: I don't want to remember the patterns, just remember the stupid terminology
<snap-l> so when someone says they're using the frobozz pattern, I know what they're talking about
<jrwren> ah, lik ehow i just dropped dtrategy above?
<jrwren> zomg, this KB has go to go
<snap-l> precisely
<jrwren> if it lives up to the description, its exactly for what i've been looking. http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=000b7d6a9b-Python_Weekly_Issue_36_May_24_2012&utm_medium=email
<rick_h_> jrwren: so I peeked at that and the first stuff off the bat are selenium tests so I'm not sure it's the thing to go from
<rick_h_> but I've not gone through it all, so disclaimer away
<jrwren> ugh
<brousch> jrwren: that's the one i started going through
<brousch> my testing skills are non-existant, so i'm hoping it will help
<brousch> the biggest problem with venturing into djangoland is that so many things are not rick_h_-approved yet
<nullspace> I just wanted to share this you all: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/best_birthday_prank_ever.gif
<brousch> what's the vaseline for?
<greg-g> worst_title_ever.gif
<greg-g> fake_joke_about_butt_sex.gif
<snap-l> If there was any doubt about Linode being awesome, let me assure you there is no doubt.
<snap-l> save for using cold fusion for their support e-mail
<greg-g> oh right, I never heard a response from Ting
<snap-l> greg-g: Really? That's odd.
<greg-g> not that I was notified about... /me searches
<snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- Handy referral link, in case anyone is interested.
<greg-g> snap-l: intersting, I don't get the same message anymore, but I'm on Ubuntu now (before it was Debian)
<greg-g> before I re-ping them, I'm going to confirm at home
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/21421238-sprint-unlocking-phones-did-it-ever-happen
<snap-l> They're definitely saying all the right things
<jrwren> anyone have local colo recommendations?
<rick_h_> jrwren: waveform is cheap, but ok
<rick_h_> I had one/two downtimes a year that were a bit nuts, think longest was 36 hours in several years
<rick_h_> and their support setup leaves a lot to be desired, see my current disagrement with them on closing my account
<brousch> my gosh, testing is tedious
<rick_h_> brousch: :) it gets easier if that helps
<rick_h_> but yes, testing == coding
<rick_h_> it takes time and refactoring to get right
<brousch> seems like it will get more tedious
<rick_h_> naw, easier
<brousch> i think i need to change how i look at it or i will never do it
<brousch> change it from "something all of the good coders tell me i need to do" to a sort of challenge that's fun
<nullspace> if you don't test how do you know it will work
<brousch> nullspace: i totally understand the rationale
<brousch> believe me. i have a GB of Visual Basic in Access with no tests where i cross my fingers on every tweak
<nullspace> reason #1 why I like web coding, I can test several times and it's doubful I'll break my own machine
<brousch> what kind of coding would break your machine?
<rick_h_> apt-get install java :P
<nullspace> brousch: please never talk to me about that again, I'm going to to get the code sweats tonight because of that sentance
<nullspace> rick_h_: very funny
<rick_h_> I thought so :)
<brousch> nullspace: sweats from the GB of Access?
<nullspace> gah your talking about it
<brousch> i've been curating this monstrosity for a decade
<nullspace> kill it with fire already
<brousch> i'm working on it ;)
<brousch> i kind of like the selenium tests
<brousch> littke brwoser pops up and does stuff
<shakes8081> Have a good weekened all
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-25
<rick_h_> phew, 1:26 18.2mi ride...how am I going ot do 36mi on Sat?
<_stink_> in 2:52?
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Man, DNS takes forever to update.
<rick_h_> hmm, it's usually been pretty quick for me these days
<brousch> your poor wife
<snap-l> Yeah, I know most folks really like those long, slow DNS updates
<snap-l> This is reverse DNS, so I'm not sure how long it takes
<snap-l> I fear it'll be 24 hours
<snap-l> which is no big deal, but it sould be nice to test my SPF record sooner than later
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
<rick_h_> yea, we'll see. They back out on stuff like that all the time
<brousch> ah geez
<snap-l> Saw it on the python dev list, where their concern was CPython-related.
<brousch> one more reason to move everything to webapps
<snap-l> brousch: s/webapps/linux/
<snap-l> we don't care what you target gcc to
<brousch> webapps all run on linux, so yeah
<rick_h_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/u49iw/pep_405_is_accepted_virtual_environments_will_be/
<brousch> i can't wait to see autocad metro. that should be fun
<snap-l> HUZZAH!
<brousch> oh nice
<snap-l> brousch: They'll probably hang on to VS10 for as long as humanly possible
<snap-l> and 5 months after it's no longer possible.
<brousch> actually the article says you can build non-metro if you pay for the IDE. i'm sure autodesk pays
<snap-l> Autodesk moves like a glacier. A giant, boat-ripping glacier.
<rick_h_> brousch: right, the concern is for OSS/school kids that won't pay the fee
<brousch> i always thought so, but now they autocad on osx and a couple of very nice webapps
<brousch> rick_h_: there's always eclipse!
<snap-l> autocad is a verb?
<snap-l> brousch: Are you high?
<brousch> as a kite!
<snap-l> Doesn't eclise need VS to build?
<brousch> java
<snap-l> Right, but C compilers and such?
<brousch> who uses C?
 * snap-l knows jack about Eclipse on Windows for anything other than Java.
<snap-l> CPython, for starters.
<snap-l> It's even in the name. :)
<brousch> i think cpython just moved from VS2008 to 2010 with python3.3
<snap-l> Yeha, that's their concern.
<brousch> so they're on 2010 now, and will be good for 5? years
<snap-l> Not under Windows 8 they won't be
<brousch> this is much more troubling "In practice, you'll probably have to pay even for Metro development. Windows 8 won't, in general, support side-loading of Metro-style applications. Developers won't be able to stick a Metro-style application that they wrote themselves onto their website and let people download it.Â "
<brousch> that kills pretty much any reason i would have to use windows over osx
<rick_h_> yea, they're getting to their own app store soon
<brousch> app store is fine, but requiring all installs to go through it is the shit
 * rick_h_ is so happy he hasn't had to load windows in multiple years now
<rick_h_> heh, that's the point of the app store :)
<brousch> i feel my blood pressure rising
<snap-l> Welcome to the mainframe. Please leave your dignity at the login prompt.
<brousch> i can see we'll be sitting on win7 for a decade
<rick_h_> woot!
<brousch> better buy up gobs of licenses
<snap-l> And hope MS doesn't suddenly deactivate them all
<brousch> damn, you're right
 * brousch digs around for his win98se CD
<snap-l> The PC industry has worked hard to remove the cost-benefits that allowed it to be so successful in the early days.
<snap-l> That and the feeling of control over your own computing environment.
<brousch> that's one of the things that bugs me about unity. i feel like i lost some control over my desktop
<brousch> i'm sure that will get better as it matures
<rick_h_> then don't use unity if you need more control :P
<brousch> i'm not
<rick_h_> you have all the control in the wold you know
<snap-l> I have all the control I need
<brousch> i'm still really happy with kubuntu
<snap-l> Yeah, and that's awesome.
<brousch> i can see kubuntu 12.04 as my OS for 3 years, if need-be
<snap-l> I love how an idea hits you long after it's useful
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> been struggling with VMs and DHCP getting random IP addresses
<snap-l> and my solution is to essentially ping every machine on the network and look for mac address patterns via arp -n
<snap-l> The better answer would have been to create machines with two network adapters
<snap-l> one for local NAT, and one for remote access
<snap-l> so I could still have local access, and be able to associate an IP address with the machine that can be listed with some minor scripting
<snap-l> Of course, port forwarding is a bitch for ssh under this scenario
<jrwren> its a lie anyway. you can always use the command line tools to do "no cost desktop software development on windows"
<jrwren> brousch: what makes you think there will be autocad metro?
<brousch> jrwren: there won't be. i corrected myself
<jrwren> isee
<snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1695.html
<jrwren> not funny
 * ColonelPanic001 forgot his towel :(
<brousch> i'll put that on your tombstone
<jrwren> but do you know where it is?
<brousch> rick_h_: what would you use instead of selenium in that django tdd tutorial?
<rick_h_> just the client should work for basic things
<rick_h_> selenium is a very hight level integration test, I'd not startt there for testing, but final overall functionality tests
<brousch> what client?
<rick_h_> a failing selenium test is near useless, run infreqeuntly, and really just a smoke test in usual cases
<rick_h_> the django test Client
<rick_h_> that lets you call the views/get response/etc
<rick_h_> in pyramid I use webtest
<brousch> thanks
<brousch> ok, so i think the fun part of testing will be the challenge of figuring out how to test something
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's usually the case, just think small and work up
<brousch> copying and pasting tests from the tutorial is tedious, but i think building my own tests will be more interesting
<jrwren> writing the test is also the design
<brousch> what design?
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> solves that problem too
<jrwren> solves the overdesign problem. solves the lack of design problem.
<brousch> overdesign is definitely not my problem
<brousch> oooooooh http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57441380-93/hps-webos-enyo-team-reportedly-heading-to-google/
<greg-g> so, is it really true there is no usable FLOSS voip conference call app (eg: skype replacement)?
<rick_h_> I hear there's this big blue button thing lol
<greg-g> :( so, that doesn't work well, eh? I never really tried the MUG instance of it
<rick_h_> sorry, just been browbeat that it's awesome and the future and worth sucking all the bandwidth out of our group meetings
<snap-l> rick_h_: hear hear
<snap-l> greg-g: I'd give it a shot. Don't let our wearied expressions dissuade you.
<snap-l> It's just that we haven't gone two months without hearing something about it
<jrwren> I think if you put up asterisk you can do it.
<brousch> big blue button was on FLOSS weekly. it has to be good
<greg-g> rick_h_: bandwidth issue wouldn't be a problem in my use case (set it up as a server the world could use, not library-based group meeting :)
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, we (CC) used to have an Asterisk server for our weekly calls, the quality wasn't hte bst for some reason
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, the thing is open codecs just don't seem to work as well for that stuff.
<greg-g> speex or whatever it is is pretty good, from the stuff I've read
<greg-g> honestly, the xiph community does some good stuff
<greg-g> I want to just blame it on apathy, but I still don't know if I can
<snap-l> I think it's also partly because of the QoS that stuff like Skye does behind the scenes
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh yea don't get me wrong. It's hard to get fired up when there are free working alternatives
<rick_h_> especially because this kind of thing is effected by network effects
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> that was the phrase I couldn't come up with before, heh
<snap-l> God, I should just throw out all of the 32 bit machines in the house
<snap-l> was going to set up a server, but the software I downloaded was 64 bit only
<snap-l> That's a few minutes I'm not going to get back
<PainBank> what do you all think of JSLint?  I just checked it out for the first time and was wondering if you use it and what your thoughts on it are?
<rick_h_> live by it
<rick_h_> it's ,m in my vim setup
<rick_h_> I use node/npm version of running it
<rick_h_> sudo npm install -g jslint (after you get nodejs and npm first)
<Blazeix> yeah, definitely use jslint
<Blazeix> it will catch all sorts of things, the biggest for me is unintended global variable use
<snap-l> put another way: there's no good reason why you shouldn't use it
<rick_h_> it saves a lot of debugging headaches
<rick_h_> it's picky/strict, but that's the best kind of tool :)
<PainBank> right on
<PainBank> ya, I noticed the 'using strict' issue came up right away, which is annoying, but requires everything to be right.
<PainBank> so you correct event the small things like adding var to the start of a variable declaration and clean up the spacing warnings?
<brousch> or youcould use coffeescript which supposedly always creates jslint passing code
<rick_h_> especially adding the var
<PainBank> ya, no on coffeeeeeee
<PainBank> ok
<rick_h_> and yea, I'm a spacing nut...
<rick_h_> so consistant spacing ftw
<brousch> rick_h_: give a pep8 nazi talk at pyohio
<brousch> you could yell and froth at people
<PainBank> anyone created an NPAPI before?
<Blazeix> i haven't, what are you building?
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/05/kingdoms-of-amalur-developer-lays-off-entire-staff/ <- This is fucked up
<PainBank> embedded system using browser for the GUI... need to trigger the hardware functionlaity
<snap-l> (not the layoff bit, the how it was funded bit)
<PainBank> wow
<PainBank> 379 staff...
<PainBank> whoa
<PainBank> umm... both.
<snap-l> Yeah ,the first part is sad
<snap-l> the second part si "wtf were they thinknig"
<PainBank> pretty fucked up, that they knew they were in trouble, yet kept the whole 380 staff on... ya wonder how many knew there were issues before the big layoff....
<PainBank> as in sitting around, twiddling thumbs... waiting for said axe to fall.
<snap-l> I think they were waiting for a bailout from the govt.
<PainBank> the funding part is just nuts... hell.... it isn't a 3rd in a series of a halo or MW series or anything.
<PainBank> they already had it... and the execs had quite the fun time for a while...
<snap-l> Java: The Speed-bump of the internet
<snap-l> I swear, the requirements for Alfresco should be just one word: more
<snap-l> more CPU, more RAM, more everything, pease
<brousch> i thought of looking at elfresco, but never did
<brousch> seemed huge
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/94003046 https://identi.ca/notice/94003056
<Blazeix> snap-l: haha
<snap-l> Would someone that doesn't normally receive mail from me be willing to help me with an experiment?
<snap-l> ie: I shouldn't be in your contact list, or on Google plus
<snap-l> and you should have a gmail account
<Blazeix> does it have to be gmail? you could use 10minutemail
<snap-l> I've had my mail show up as spam in gmail
<snap-l> and I wanted to see if I'd finally nailed the SPF record so it doesn't do that anymore.
<snap-l> port25 and the openspf mailer says that I pass
<snap-l> Maybe I should just let it go. :)
<shakes808> snap-l: what do you need me to do?
<snap-l> just pm me your e-mail address
<snap-l> and wait for an e-mail from me
<snap-l> and then lmk if it showed up in spam
<brousch> snap-l: starting a spam ans scam company?
<snap-l> brousch: You betcha
<shakes808> came through in my normal inbox
<snap-l> shakes808: Thank you.
<shakes808> np
<shakes808> glad to be of assistance ;)
<shakes808> ... and now the flood of spam mail and chain letters commence :-/
<shakes808> loll
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-26
<greg-g> hey snap-l / n0p_ / jrwren / etc: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11968596#post11968596 dude in A2 at UM
 * greg-g still has an RSS subscription of the Michigan LoCo subforum
<greg-g> jcastro: alright, what's the best SSD brand now?
<jrwren> Vortex3 and maybe Vortex4
<greg-g> cool, will do that order this weekend :)
<greg-g> my old (first for me, actually) SSD died a while ago, and living with this crappy spinning disk sucks. I bought the cheapest hd the x200s had because I knew I was getting a good SDD from newegg
<greg-g> it's probably some 5400 rpm thing :(
<jrwren> maybe even less.
<jrwren> yeah, I love my SSD
<Blazeix> you mean vertex3/4 right?
<jrwren> lol, yes.
<jrwren> no idea where i got vortex
<greg-g> rick_h_: do you use the  M <edit-from>^Uidentity_<tab> setting to manage idenities in mutt?
<greg-g> this is in my macros file:
<greg-g> macro compose v "<edit-from>^Uidentity_<tab>" "Select from"
<greg-g> anyway, when I hit v sometimes, it takes a long time for the identity to come up, like seconds
<greg-g> just seeing if you were experiencing the same thing
<snap-l> OH, Civicrm is awesome
<snap-l> Just sent a note to our speaker via it.
<snap-l> Hopefully he'll respond.
<snap-l> Plus, this meeting page is generated from it: http://www.mug.org/meetings/
<greg-g> we use civi at CC
<greg-g> test
 * greg-g just solarized irssi
<snap-l> Received
<greg-g> https://github.com/huyz/irssi-colors-solarized
<snap-l> *sigh*
<greg-g> ?
<greg-g> did I do something wrong with solarization?
<snap-l> Solarize this, solarize that
<snap-l> sick of solarizing
<greg-g> not a fan of the colors?
<snap-l> Not a fan of all of the hype syrrounding a colorscheme
<greg-g> well, that is understandable, but I kind of like it so far, not because of the hype, but because of the colors :)
<snap-l> http://blog.magnatune.com/2012/05/workflow-change-ideas-for-magnatune.html < I think this is kind of stupid
<greg-g> interesting
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a little interesting
<snap-l> but I'm not sure I could listen like that
<snap-l> I listen to snippets, I download the album
<snap-l> I'm done
<greg-g> right
<snap-l> I guess I'm a dinosaur. :)
<greg-g> well, me too, really
<snap-l> Also, Conde Nast can suck a dick
<snap-l> Subscribed to Ars, included Wired for $10
<snap-l> If I don't want wired (which I don't), I have to physically mail them a request for refund.
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> I love Ars, but if any other site did that to me, I think I'd cancel my subscription right then and there.
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, I don't use that edit-from stuff
<brousch> Did anyone besides rick_h_ submit a PyPhio talk?
<brousch> I kind of want to do an intro to Django talk, but I don't feel quite qualified
<rick_h_> brousch: always do a talk that gives you a chance to learn soemthing as well
<rick_h_> just make sure you can do the homework so that you give a good tlak
<brousch> yeah, about to send an email to python friends asking which they think is most interesting
<brousch> i'll send it to ubuntu-mi mailing list to get opinions from folks in here
<brousch> i think 2 pyohio organizers are on the grpug list, so they might reply too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-27
<greg_g> alright, I'm at a total loss on how to show an older version of a file in bzr
<rick_h_> bzr revert -r somerev ?
<greg_g> but I don't want to undo other changes that have happened on other files bewtween that time
<rick_h_> well then you just jump back to the current
<greg_g> suppose so
<rick_h_> revert isn't permanent (if I recall)
<rick_h_> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-guide/browsing_history.html#viewing-an-old-version-of-a-file
<rick_h_> greg_g: ^
<greg_g> I just found bzr cat --revision XX $file
<greg_g> ah, yep, same
<greg_g> my issue was I was looking at this man page: http://linux.die.net/man/1/bzr and nothing useful was listed in that first section, but there are a ton more commands lower down
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, the whole 'bzr is so much more usable/human readable" drives me nuts
<rick_h_> greg_g: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/6yTczmgEFaM
<rick_h_> http://new.mapmyride.com/routes/view/96341611 is pretty cool view of the ride
<greg_g> rick_h_: nice!
<snap-l> rick_h_: wow!
<rick_h_> yea, 38 riders
<rick_h_> biggest group I've ever done, was pretty cool
<rick_h_> down on the water down in detroi
<rick_h_> but now i need a better saddle...mine is only good for 15mi
<rick_h_> ugh, sore today
<rick_h_> but the weather report is down 5deg for Zoo day yay!
<User1> I'm trying to host a dns that will be doing nothing but one domain name redirect -  www.example.com to www.example.info
<User1> Is there an easy way to do this?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-20
<rick_h_> evening
<jrwren> what beach, brousch?
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> nice http://marissamayr.tumblr.com/post/50902274591/im-delighted-to-announce-that-weve-reached-an
<rick_h_> "We promise not to screw it up." is the nice part
<rick_h_> right off the bat
<brousch> How can they promise that?
<brousch> That's like my kid promising he won't spill his drink
<jcastro> shrug, she's a pretty smart person
<jcastro> if anyone can unscrew yahoo it's her
<jcastro> and the world needs competition for google for web services
<brousch> Microsoft!
<rick_h_> heh, that works in non-IE :P
<rick_h_> I just find it amusing that a CEO is straight out "we hear you all, we won't screw it up" and ack's the voices out there.
<jcastro> I am surprised they didn't launch a newsreader
<jcastro> that's what I would have done
<jcastro> "hello technically inclined people, I would like you to give me a shot."
<jcastro> rick_h_: hah man this tweet
<jcastro> "Those crying about Tumblr's acquisition by Yahoo may now learn to care that Tumblr has no "export your data" thing."
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh, yea export ftw
<snap-l> good morning
<snap-l> Yahoo willlikely be very hands off on tumblr if the acquisition explicitly states as mjcb
<snap-l> see: flickr
<snap-l> otherwise, they are on a unique position to fuck it up
<jrwren> Marissa is awesome. I don't think Yahoo will screw it up.
<jrwren> wow it was a very quiet weekend in this channel.
<jrwren> everyone enjoyed the spring weather?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it was awesome
<jcastro> jrwren: we need to hang out more, seriously
<jcastro> I have like no friends here
<jrwren> jcastro: i don't have friends here either.
<jrwren> the kid keeps me pretty busy, but I'm always game to grab a beer in the evening
<jcastro> nod
<jrwren> wednesday is that fanzoo event to which i keep inviting you.
<jrwren> you game?
<jcastro> fanzoo?
<jrwren> a guy who runs a consulting company here in AA. really nice guy.
<jrwren> http://www.fanzootechnology.com/blog/
<jrwren> its basically just bring a project to work on and talk about
<jrwren> but mostly its nerd sitting around bullshitting and giving each other shit about tech choices.
<jrwren> like I laugh at all their Windows8 bullshit
<jrwren> they laugh at all my mac bullshit.
<jrwren> its generally a good time.
<jrwren> last week this guy I know brought a friend and his friend had experience with Lightning MDB and we worked on a bug together. it was sweet.
<jrwren> such a rare DB ot have experience with.
<jrwren> that was awesome.
<jrwren> err... last month, not last week.
<snap-l> jcastro: You have friends in Michigan, they just don't know where you live. :)
<snap-l> It's not like you're hours away from them by car.
<jcastro> I am like 2 hours away from rick and kather
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> I meant me. :)
<snap-l> It's not like I lived in Belleville like a fucking hermit. :)
<snap-l> We drove to Ann Arbor a bunch
<snap-l> and ypsi to the library.
<snap-l> Mageia sounds either like a disease, or the system next to Magrathea in HHG2G
<snap-l> Afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> snap-l: Right side http://media.penguicon.org/index.php/Penguicon-2013/Official-2013-photos/pcon2013-bb9q4745
<snap-l> Yes, yes, I know. Someone got me in a photo
<snap-l> And apparently someone photobombed it as well.
<brousch> I was looking for furries, but only found you
<greg-g> man, Netflix uses Java AND rpms? how backwards can you get?
<Blazeix> http://techblog.netflix.com/ is actually a pretty interesting feed
<greg-g> yeah, just looked
<Blazeix> they're part of that "cool ecosystem" of java things, like solr and jersey
 * greg-g nods
<jcastro> I don't care what it's written in, companies OSSing their infrastructure is ++
 * greg-g 's joke wasn't funny then
<jcastro> well, make fun of them for _that_
<jcastro> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-21
<snap-l> Picked up another Vornado fan
<snap-l> ANd nothing wrong with using RPMs. They're easy to build and deploy
<snap-l> and easy to verify
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Spending my last day of vacation at the Caribou in Royak Oak waiting for J to get out of class.
<rick_h_> morning party people
<brousch> in the place to be
<snap-l> Woo woo
<rick_h_> yea, something like that
<snap-l> I'm only 20 pages into this Understanding C Pointers book and I've learned more about pointers than in the 20 odd years of half-assed noodling
<snap-l> I blame most of that on me trying to avoid pointers like a plague
<brousch> I hate pointers
<snap-l> They're not my favorite either, but I'm finding they're more important than we give them credit
<snap-l> and years of avoinding them is tiring. :)
<brousch> It is easy to avoid them. Use a sane language.
<jrwren> yesterday ssh_import_id: [evarlast] to my ubuntu cloud instance worked perfectly. today it doesn't. typical ubuntu? :)
<jrwren> pointers: I don't see the big deal.
<jrwren> *doh* that #cloud-config line is NOT a comment :)
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> at least I hope that is the issue. *fingers crossed*
<jrwren> yes, that was it.
<rick_h_> woot
<greg-g> back from my first ACM conference (well, workshop)
<greg-g> met a guy who reminds me a lot of jrwren  :)
<brousch> What's acm?
<greg-g> Association of Computing Machines
 * greg-g didn't make the Ass. jokpe
<greg-g> -p
<brousch> Is that a real thing?
<brousch> I saw an invite to it and threw it away
<jrwren> brousch: ACM is the professional society for computer scientists.
<greg-g> uh, yeah. biggest/most "respected" academic CS society
<jrwren> it is the IEEE of computer science
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> brousch: if you have a computer science degree, then I'm disgusted that you don't know what ACM is.
<greg-g> not really useful if you're not academic, about 99% of the time
<greg-g> jrwren: he was anthro
<jrwren> if you don't havea  comp science degree, then it is totally understandable.
<brousch> I don't have a computer science degree. I blame pointers.
<jrwren> i was all happy to finally actually join ACM just a couple months ago.
<jrwren> greg-g: so what was the workshop?
<greg-g> Release Engineering, first one of its kind. about 80 people, with a 60/40% industry/academia (which means it was useful for me)
<rick_h_> very cool
<greg-g> jrwren: two keynotes, one from Mozilla's RelEng lead and VP of Eng from LinkedIn
<greg-g> LinkedIn, nevermind their business side, has some pretty awesome developer tools in-house
<greg-g> oh, the person who reminded me of you jrwren (maybe because I haven't seen you in a while) was a previous release manager for subversion
<greg-g> now at... Google?
<jrwren> sweet.
<jrwren> yes, linkedin does have to some sweet tech. its too bad that they are linkedin
<greg-g> yep :)
<jrwren> https://github.com/linkedin
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<greg-g> pongzor
<brousch> Who's going to PyOhio this year?
<jrwren> maybe?
<jrwren> i'm not sure
<rick_h_> I'm going
<rick_h_> though I'm worried about it this year
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-22
<snap-l> I'm planning on going, along with JoDee
<snap-l> what's the worry?
<snap-l> so it looks like the loco approvals are now going to be called "verified"
<snap-l> though I fear it'll just be the approval process now used for verification
<CrusaderAD> Anyone awake?
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/114546378907380458640/posts/MqRs4WrCzx7
<CrusaderAD> I've got an issue I was hoping someone wouldn't mind taking a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147385
<snap-l> You might want to post that on askubuntu.com rather than the forums
<snap-l> not sure how much traffic they get
<CrusaderAD> I did :/
<snap-l> Also, best to list what cards / routers you've tried
<snap-l> What's the URL of the askubuntu post?
 * snap-l will upvote it
<CrusaderAD> http://askubuntu.com/questions/298425/ethernet-card-doesnt-connect
<CrusaderAD> thanks!
<snap-l> Also, if you use a static IP, do the machines connect?
<CrusaderAD> I haven't tried that yet. I've tried 3 different ethernet cards, different brands, different cords, different gigabit switches (brands).... same result everywhere. I'm going to give a static IP a shot and see what happens.
<CrusaderAD> It just blows me away that nothing has worked out of the box.
<snap-l> I think what's happening is your DHCP server isn't serving properly
<snap-l> or you've set the switches so nothing can access it
<snap-l> somewhere it's not getting the info it needs. :)
<CrusaderAD> Even with different switches? I've had other machines connect just fine to the switches.
<snap-l> Again, it's not easy to diagnose it unless there's more information
<CrusaderAD> It's driving me insane to say the least. Thanks for the troubleshooting! It's probably something stupid simple.
<snap-l> model numbers, connection diagrams
<snap-l> packet traces
<CrusaderAD> ever heard of startech? that's the brand I last tried
<snap-l> But it looks like you have some folks jumping on to help
<CrusaderAD> I've tried trendnet and netgear gigabit switches
<snap-l> I've heard of Startech. I can't say I'd knowingly use their networking cards
<snap-l> What's acting as the DHCP server?
<CrusaderAD> just the switch... I'm not trying to use it in combo with anything else... some machine connect, this one doesn't.
<snap-l> The switch is just a dumb repeater
<CrusaderAD> even though 3 different pci network cards and the on board one fail
<snap-l> there's nothing in there to act as a router / DHCP server
<CrusaderAD> a switch doesn't assign an ip by itself?
<snap-l> nope
<CrusaderAD> no shit
<snap-l> So let's determine what you've actually got there
<snap-l> what's the model of the switch?
<CrusaderAD> justa sec
<CrusaderAD> netgear GS105
<CrusaderAD> ST1000BT32 Startech
<CrusaderAD> I have a wireless netgear router that can dhcp
<snap-l> Were the other machines perchance Windows machines?
<CrusaderAD> nope, all Ubuntu
<snap-l> I think you might have set one up as a DHCP server, or used the netgear router as DHCP
<snap-l> and may have either forgotten that you did that, or something else
<snap-l> but that Netgear is just going to intelligently repeat packets over the wire
<snap-l> that's about it
<snap-l> "Hey, machine X, here's this packet that some machine sent you"
<snap-l> That's all a switch will do
<snap-l> (I'm probably grossly oversimplifying it, but that's the gist)
<CrusaderAD> Am I on the right path to achieve gigabit speeds?
<snap-l> Well, you have a gigabit switch
<snap-l> and you have a gigabit card
<snap-l> but you don't have a router that you've explicitly connected to the network, correct?
<snap-l> And if you do, what port is it connected to on the switch?
<CrusaderAD> I have a router managing my wireless devices and has 4 10/100 ports on it.
<snap-l> Ah, now we're getting somewhere.
<snap-l> And have you connected the switch to the router in any way?
<CrusaderAD> when I first tried it, I connected port 1 on 10/100 to port 1 on 10/100/1000
<snap-l> There's usually a special port on routers /hubs that allow them to bridge betweeen them
<snap-l> You might want to try port 5 on the switch
<snap-l> and see if that makes a difference
<CrusaderAD> hm, ok... just knowing that I need dhcp from something other than the switch makes things much more clear... I may have had it working at one point and just didn't have it tapped into the router to pull an IP
<snap-l> Also, bad news: if yor communication goes to the router, it'll bump down to 100 mbit
<snap-l> so your chances of getting gigabit with that setup are not great.
<snap-l> Usually your best results are to have gigabit throughout the network connection
<snap-l> Ideally you'll want to update the router at some point
<CrusaderAD> yeah, I'll most likely end up doing that too
<CrusaderAD> Thanks for the help!
<snap-l> np. Hope it gets you further along. :)
<rick_h_> morning party people
<rick_h_> ouch http://blog.angularjs.org/2013/05/spring-cleaning-for-github.html
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> nog
<brousch> I just came across this band: Absinthe - Amish industrial hardcore folk
<greg-g> wait, is that first part for realz?
<greg-g> and, what does industrial folk sound like?
<snap-l> Keep in mind: Amorphis labels themselves as folk
<brousch> I have no idea
<brousch> They will be at the GR Festival of the Arts
<snap-l> That could be utterly awesome, or a trainwreck
 * rick_h_ runs
<brousch> http://www.reverbnation.com/absintheband
<rick_h_> everyone try out the google music radio stuff?
<greg-g> they don't look amish
<snap-l> Sounds like something that would be played on WRIF
<snap-l> Not bad
<snap-l> but I'm not hearing the industrial or Amish
<snap-l> Sounds more like Stone Sour with a good vocalist
<snap-l> Some label support and I could see that band being very radio friendly.
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, I haven't yet.
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol'ing at it since I have to use it in FF, just blows up in Chrome
<greg-g> hah, nice
<snap-l> Oh that's precious.
<brousch> rick_h_: Hm. $8/mo is a bit steep
<brousch> I think my wife pays $4/mo for Pandora
<jrwren> supporting the people who corrupt our senators and create perpetual (c) laws. *task* :p
<jrwren> jcastro: fun with fanzoo, tonight, 6pm. you want to meet there?
<brousch> jrwren: Are you saying Pandora is evil?
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but this is nicer for sure.
<rick_h_> I've paid for ad free pandora before and guess I will because it works on the squeezebox that we run
<rick_h_> but for nice work music playing this is cool
<rick_h_> http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/05/2013-national-geographic-traveler-photo-contest/100516/ crazy
<brousch> jrwren: I'll let my wife know and see if she gives a flip
<jrwren>  excellent
<greg-g> time to do the SFO->AMS thing
<greg-g> for http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Hackathon_2013
<brousch> Aren't they the same city?
<greg-g> just the "coffee shop" part
<greg-g> alright, laterz!
<jcastro> hackathon?
<jcastro> or smokeathon??
<brousch> Most mellow hackathon evar
<jrwren> jcastro: tonight, 6pm. you want to meet there or do you want to meet before hand?
<jcastro> yeah sorry I was on the phone
<jcastro> one sec
<jcastro> let me find jill's plans
<jcastro> jrwren: what is this fanzoo thing?
<jrwren> does python urlparse have something which will give /a/b?blah from http://host/a/b/?blah ?  parse splits on ? and I find I must path+'?'+query to reconstruct that part myself.
<jrwren> jcastro: its a code session. basically people sitting around working on whatever they want while talking shit. nothing formal
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah so my only issue is that jill's car is in the shop and she took mine until like 8:30, since I'm not far from you can homey get a pickup?
<jcastro> ok so fanzoo is like CHC then
<jrwren> yes, its CHC with beer.
<rick_h_> CHC ftw!
<jrwren> jeff is so awesome he usually provides beer & subs.
<rick_h_> crap, they've got beer? cheaters!
<jrwren> jcastro: pm me your address. I'll come get you at 5:30
<jcastro> yeah!
<brousch> rick_h_: google Music fails for you in chrome?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, throws and error when I try to play and keeps asking me to relaod
<rick_h_> brousch: that's with chrome dev channel
<brousch> Ah, it seems fine with Chrome stable
<brousch> It generated a good playlist based on pirates of the carribean
<jcastro> http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/i-knocked-a-cyclist-off-his-bike-i-have-right-of-way-he-doesnt-even-pay-road-tax/
<jcastro> THIS IS EPIC
<jrwren> wow
<rick_h_> that's crazy
<rick_h_> so reading the comments a twitter post might stop her career right as it's about to get going.
<rick_h_> <3 the modern world. Done downloading 24GB of google take out stuff before the EOD
<jrwren> google take out stuff?
<rick_h_> now uploading 24GB of photos frightens me
<jrwren> you can download food?
<rick_h_> did a google takeout of my photos
<brousch> that's a lot of photos
<rick_h_> https://www.google.com/takeout/
<brousch> Did you find a new host?
<rick_h_> brousch: well, I've been using flickr for things and was going to upload them there. For now I'm pulling them down and will make sure they're all on my NAS
<brousch> I use flickr, then smugmug, now picasaweb
<rick_h_> the whole ads on flickr thing is annoying and I'll probably pay the new higher price for no ads, but curious if that removes ads for people viewing my galleries
<rick_h_> I don't want to link my grandparents to a bunch of ads on my photos
<jrwren> oh right, google takeout!
<brousch> I got annoyed by the extra steps for google login on flickr
<rick_h_> I just want to be able to load photos and point family at urls for a gallery
<rick_h_> Google has fubar'd that up
<brousch> smugmug is good for that
<brousch> Can do your own domain, too
<rick_h_> for some reason I equate smugmug with the twitter pic hosts that seem spammy and such.
<brousch> No. You pay for it. no ads, no spam
<rick_h_> and I worry about longevity at this point.
<brousch> They cater to profession photographers, so they allow raw uploads, nice custom themes, unlimited storage
<rick_h_> cool, /me is looking at the site
<brousch> Opposite of imgur and such
<brousch> I think the biggest drawback when I left was no/poor mobile app and digikam integration
<brousch> That was like 18 months ago, so I'm not sure how that's improved
<brousch> looks like they have mobile apps now
<jrwren> run gallery, cuz PHP is awesome.
<jrwren> and man that UI looks good :p
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Good luck getting a pro account on Flickr
<snap-l> apparently they're doing "things" to make sure people get ads.
<rick_h_> snap-l: I had a pro account. Now I'd need to pay more for an 'ad-free' account
<brousch> OH, has anyone tried mediagoblin?
<rick_h_> looked at the code :P but not tried it out
<snap-l> Haven't tried it out either
<brousch> Well dangit
<snap-l> It's not PHP, so I can't put it on my web server. :)
<brousch> Get a real webserver :P
<brousch> It's not Django, so you can't complain about that
<brousch> Here you go. Revive this https://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyGall/0.12
<snap-l> How about no.
<brousch> Pyramid!
<rick_h_> there are several static generating things. I'd just do that, though a 24G git repo would be scary
<widox> dropbox? they have a gallery thing now
<rick_h_> widox: thought about it.
<jrwren> don't put them into git.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, was just being funny
<jrwren> oh. *whew*
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm not sticking GB of binary data into any VCS really
<brousch> github that sumbitch
<brousch> digikam seems to be fixed with smugmug
<brousch> Crazy stuff. The mediagoblin lead dev just showed up in an unrelated channel and we started chatting
<snap-l> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-change-to-google-code-download-service.html
<snap-l> So it looks like Sourceforge is one of the few places offering project downloads
<jrwren> jcastro: OMG
<jcastro> OMG yo
<jcastro> jrwren: what's up
<CrusaderAD> Hey snap-l just wanted to let you know I got the gigabit stuff worked out... you got me on the right path. Really helped me out, thanks!
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: Awesome! Glad it helped!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-23
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://tilloy.net/dev/pyexiv2/
<snap-l> danke
<brousch> I picked up a RaspberryPi last night
<rick_h_> heh, they're contagious
<brousch> I felt like the only one in GRMakers without one
<rick_h_> jcastro: time to jump in with some wet shave love http://etbe.coker.com.au/2013/05/23/noise-shaving/
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> Had one of the drives on my work machine fail
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> I think it was temperature related.
<snap-l> at least it was in a RAID, so am waiting for it to rebuild.
<snap-l> And forgot my coffee at home
<snap-l> but other than that, it's jeans day at work. :)
<snap-l> so I'm happy about that. :)
<brousch> I make Fridays Hawaiian Shirt days for my department in the summer
<jrwren> jcastro: are you alive? or did jill kill you?
<jcastro> jrwren: I am in the doghouse
<jcastro> but it was worth it!
<snap-l> ruh ron
<jrwren> hahaha.
<jrwren> i'm hurting.
<jrwren> we drank a lot.
<jcastro> yeah
<brousch> A lot of what?
<jjesse> brousch, water
<rick_h_> oh hey, look what I ran across in my rss http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ewp7d/request_for_proposals_mediawiki_release_management/ :P greg-g
<jcastro> jrwren: I think most of my issue was not knowing she was calling
<jcastro> And blaming Ubuntu for that was so not an excuse
<jcastro> "What do you mean your phone doesn't vibrate when someone calls, all phones do that."
<rick_h_> lol, that's awesome
<rick_h_> coolest lego build evar? http://gizmodo.com/this-incredible-full-scale-lego-x-wing-is-the-largest-m-509484787
<brousch> that's crazy
<snap-l> That's insane
<snap-l> I can't believe that's all lego in there
<snap-l> There's apparently a steel structure in there
<snap-l> but still... damn that's impressibe
<rick_h_> jrwren: regex question for you if you're around
<jrwren> i'm here
<rick_h_> http://refiddle.com/gqh jrwren
<rick_h_> jrwren: so trying to change this from just saying "any char not a :" to "not the characters /: in a row"
<jrwren> it says I'm not auth for that link
<jrwren> [^:] => (?!/:)
<rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, did that work for you in the fiddle? Not matching here.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so /:flags:\/((?!\/:))*/g ?
<rick_h_> err /:flags:\/((?!/:))*/g
<jrwren> fiddle doesn't work for me at all
<rick_h_> jrwren: k
<rick_h_> trying it just in the source
<jrwren> the problem is that it is negative lookahead
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> hrm.
<jrwren> maybe [^/][^:] ?
<jrwren> yes, that works
<rick_h_> yea, that works
<rick_h_> cool, thanks
<jrwren> err, no it doesn't.
<jrwren> does it?
<jrwren> problem is that regex engines eval char by char (mostly)
<rick_h_> well working in the fiddle. Puttnig it into the test code now
<jrwren> ok, gl
<jrwren> hate to write a grammar for this :p
<rick_h_> thanks, I was trying to get the lookahead working
<rick_h_> well, honestly, I just want to get rid of a trailing / and in the code review somenoe hates my manual rstrip code and wants me to fix teh regex to do it for me :/
<jrwren> that is stupid.
<jrwren> just use rstrip :p
<rick_h_> it's in JS so there's no rstrip
<jrwren> write an rstrip and call it :p
<jcastro> jrwren: did I leave my laptop bag in your car?
<jrwren> jcastro: i don't think so, but maybe.
<jrwren> jcastro: did you find it? I could have sworn i made sure that you grabbed it.
<jrwren> if you don't see it let me know, I'll go check my car.
<brousch> Maybe you drunk craigslisted it
<snap-l> brousch: Is this a problem for you? :)
<brousch> Just offering helpful suggestions
<jcastro> jrwren: I appear to have misplaced my own laptop in my own house
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, nobody has ever done that. ;)
<jrwren> so you found the empty bag but no laptop?
<jrwren> this is why I like small houses. :p
<jcastro> I can't find the bag, lol
<brousch> Small houses mean more creative storage places
<snap-l> small houses == everything is in the garaga
<snap-l> garage
<jcastro> n0p: ping!
<jrwren> jcastro: its in my car.
<jrwren> bring me pizza and you can have it :p
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I could have sworn we brought it in
<jrwren> me too, but I was pretty tired.
<jcastro> how long are you @ work today? I am over there picking up my car after work
<jrwren> 5ish
<jcastro> perfecto
<jrwren> cool
<jcastro> I'll give you a ring and swing by
<jrwren> i'll give you a tour of the office
<jrwren> quick tour
<snap-l> Ask jrwren to show you the bodies at least.
<brousch> Should I be using python unittest or is there something better?
<brousch> nose?
<jrwren> nose
<jrwren> i'd not go so far as to say it is a must, but it is a very nice thing.
<jrwren> use the nice things, if you can.
<snap-l> Yeah, nose is nice.
<jrwren> how long will it take to run 15000+ iptables commands?
<jrwren> jcastro: you coming up here?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> jill isn't home yet
<jcastro> she should be pulling up any second now
<jrwren> oh, ok
<jcastro> do you end @ 5?
<jcastro> jrwren: ok she's stuck in traffic, mind if I stop by tommorrow?
<jrwren> you can live without your computer for 2 days?!?! that is CRAZY
<jrwren> yes, I'll be in office all day tomorrow, stop by anytime.
<jcastro> I have 7 more, heh
<snap-l> jcastro has a laptop for every day of the week
<snap-l> some that coordinate as well
<jrwren> 45minutes. it takes about 45minutes.
<jrwren> but iptables-restore runs in under .2s
<jrwren> yay
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-24
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/fios-customer-discovers-the-limits-of-unlimited-data-77-tb-in-month/
<snap-l> What the fuck
<rick_h_> yea, <3
<rick_h_> some good stuff on ars today
<rick_h_> I was lol'ing at the new MS mice
<snap-l> Dude was running a fucking datacenter out of his house
<rick_h_> just a rack, a DC has many :)
<snap-l> Um, seriously? :)
<snap-l> I think JoDee would either marry me all over again or kill me if I had that setup
<snap-l> not sure which
<greg-g> g'morning in AMS (6:52am)
<greg-g> been up since like 4:30ish
<rick_h_> greg-g: morning
<greg-g> it's lunch time!
<rick_h_> well, first time using more then 8G of ram today woot
<brousch> whoa
<rick_h_> 3lxc running, 4G ram windows VM, chrome tabs/windows galore, wheee
<rick_h_> and don't even notice it woot
<brousch> SSD FTW
<rick_h_> the lxc/virtualbox vms are on a normal HD
<rick_h_> thinking it's more the 6cores (12 with hyperthread) and 32GB of ram :)
<brousch> geez
<brousch> That is 2x the ram in my entire "data center"
<rick_h_> the virtualbox ram slider jumps around in big chunks :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> how goes the raid rebuild?
<snap-l> Finished up overnight, but am running into partition misalignment issues with the new drive.
<snap-l> It's a Seagate drive
<snap-l> Seems to be performant, so not sure if I should be worried or not
<snap-l> currently in the "not worrying" category
<snap-l> Also, it's 68F in the den, and I'm happy
<rick_h_> well if it's rebuild, get a second drive of the new type to try tomatch them up. Always best to have matched drives for raid
<brousch> I thought it was best to have mismatched drives so they don't fail at the same time
<greg-g> that's the theory
<greg-g> it's what I did for my btrfs raid setup
<rick_h_> so if they're not matched they'll have diff performance characteristics, different layouts, diff firmware, etc.
<rick_h_> it'll not let the raid work at its best as it's fighting the diff drives trying to write the data
<rick_h_> is my understanding.
<rick_h_> just because we both buy two trucks on the same day doesn't mean they'll fail on the same day. It's mechanical and just don't see that
<brousch> So you're giving up some performance for reliability
<brousch> One word: Deskstar
<rick_h_> I'd argue that reliability is a false assumption there
<snap-l> Well, it's also a work machine
<rick_h_> hah, well don't buy crap cheap drives :P
<brousch> they were not cheap at the time
<snap-l> I think the real reason the drive failed was the drives were jammed together under each other, so one drive was busily cooking the other
<rick_h_> snap-l: what's the warranty on them? I mean it's been a few years now?
<rick_h_> drives do have life expectancies
<snap-l> Not sure
<rick_h_> how do people deal with windows...I mean really?! /me wants apt-get install ie10
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think they just don't know any better
<snap-l> "Linux is so complicated, just give me a drive letter that I can memorize"
<rick_h_> "pick your version" just install the right one dammit. I don't "apt-get install python-and64"
<snap-l> Even though all of the drive letters can quickly change
<jrwren> where is AMS?
<brousch> rick_h_: I have a script to bootstrap distutils/pip/virtualenv for python3.2 if you need it
<greg-g> rick_h_: re fighting the raid controller: btrfs deals with this just fine :)
<greg-g> I mean, it explicitly doesn't care and "just does the right thing"
<rick_h_> jrwren: amsterdam
<greg-g> its the airport code
<jrwren> oh!
<jrwren> i wish I was there with greg-g getting coffee
<brousch> Yeah. "Coffee"
 * greg-g takes a big long dr^C^C sip of his coffee
<rick_h_> al...most...to...10GB of ram used. Need more things to run!
<brousch> Want to process some unflattened semi-corrupt 36"x48" vector PDFs for me?
<rick_h_> onlyif the tool to do it is multi-core enabled
<rick_h_> I want to light up some of these things
<brousch> You could run multiple instances
<brousch> I never did get around to making it a multiprocess queue
<nullspace> concurrency is powerful but tricky to write for
<jrwren> i disagree.
<nullspace> which part, powerfull or tricky?
<brousch> Yeah, and the project has died because we bought a new plotter that doesn't choke on as many iffy PDFs
<jrwren> tricky
<nullspace> tricky meaning you really need to think about what your trying to accomplish and ensure threads don't collied or corrupt data
<jrwren> you've made so many assumptions given taht statement that we are no longer talking about only concurrency.
<jrwren> i agree, threads and data sharing is tricky.
<nullspace> then what was the part you we're disagreeing with?
<jrwren> that concurrency is tricky to write for.
<jrwren> its not.
<nullspace> writing isn't but programming is more than just writing code
<jrwren> indeed.
<nullspace> I recently wrote my first big concurrent feature in java, was dealing with get and sending  data to a flakey SOAP setup
<jrwren> ugh. flakey soap is pretty bad.
<nullspace> that service is the biggest pain in my ass, hopefully by september we be rid of it
<nullspace> it's like completely ignored any standards and hand wrote the methods to implement it
<jrwren> is it by a vendor?
<nullspace> I'm not entirely sure what it is, our sister company's IT department brought it into existance
<nullspace> from what I heard it was a learning experience for most staff members on databases as well as SOAP, XML and web services in general
<brousch> Your WTF of the day: "I'm trying to package an (Kivy) app for android that will be using pymssql to communicate with sql server"
<nullspace> this sounds like a horrible idea
<brousch> I put on my jrwren mask and told him he's doing it wrong
<nullspace> unless it's a database management tool
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> "Our system though is running directly within our local network and just happens to be the android platform. They're really running just the same way a normally networed computer terminal would. Just think of it as an integrated touchscreen device."
<nullspace> not sure why someone would want to manage a database on a mobile device
<jrwren> brousch: doesn't matter.
<jrwren> that database should never be an integation point.
<nullspace> you'd think a web app would be easier and less stupid
<jrwren> its the wrong design for a desktop app too.
<brousch> jrwren: I agree, but I've done my due-diligence education
<jrwren> http://haacked.com/archive/2007/04/23/avoid-using-a-database-as-an-api-integration-point.aspx
<rick_h_> apis ftw
<brousch> I can't imagine how fragile this app is going to be with all the weirdness he's putting together
<brousch> And now it's directly accessing your database
<jrwren> not my database. it isn't allowed :)
<nullspace> brousch: is it actually an intgration point? are they pulling/psuhing data to the DB via this app or are they using it to build a database, both are horrible ideas I'm just wondering what kinda stupid they are
<jrwren> it sounds like a 2tier 80s/90s app client server arch where server is dbserver.
<jrwren> its hard for me to think of a good reason to build apps like that these days
<nullspace> http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/70000/6000/300/176362/176362.strip.sunday.gif
<brousch> nullspace: I don't know
<nullspace> it might be for the best
<brousch> Right
<nullspace> otherwise you might have the uncontrolable urge to remove them from the gene pool
<jrwren> starting new little projects is fun.
<snap-l> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/12d9/
<snap-l> What the fuch
<snap-l> rick_h_: Good day?
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh...let's just say I've got firm opinions on the mocha JS testing tool
<rick_h_> and dealing with other people's CI and such
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I can see that. :)
<jjesse> some dude at the starbucks i'm working out of today just fired up his "Windows Vista Premium" laptop
<jjesse> sad face
<jjesse> that dude looks grumpy, i bet its because of his laptop
<snap-l> http://www.musicmanumit.com/2013/05/jazzcast-summer-series-episode-1-with.html
<jcastro> hey jrwren
<jcastro> when are you off today, 5ish?
<jrwren> jcastro: i went home already.
<jrwren> jcastro: you want to come over?
<jcastro> mebbe
<jcastro> maybe we should eat in AA tonite
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> for sure.
<jcastro> greg-g: hippie ping
<jcastro> what's the tldr on this monsanto thing
<jcastro> the march website sucks at explaining the why
<jcastro> other than "global xbox sized food grower"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-25
<jrwren> the tl;dr depends on your values. there are a couple things bad about monstanto.
<jrwren> for IP freedom, they patented a gene and got away with it. their gene patent case went to SCOTUS and basically SCOTUS ruled that yes, genes are patentable
<jrwren> so if you like freedom of property, monstanto sucks.
<jrwren> #2 as a result of this, they are allowed to sue farmers for patent infringement EVEN IF the farmer was never a monstanto customer. the soybeans germinate and the patented gene ends up in a soy field which previously was soy which did not have the patented gene.
<jrwren> #3 round up is poison very bad for the environment (maybe?)
<jrwren> #4 no one know the long term effects of all this GMO
<jrwren> that written, I'd love to read greg-g's thought on the matter.
<snap-l> GMO has veen going on long before monsanto; they just ccalled it breeding back then
<snap-l> that said, I find monsanto disgusting on almost all other counts
<jrwren> selective breeding v. gene splicing are very different
<snap-l> jrwren: REsults are quite similar, even if the methods aren't shared.
<jrwren> i disagree
<snap-l> Interesting re: Google Buzz being automatically saved into Google Drive
<snap-l> Well, I have successfully fucked my computer
<snap-l> and it's all my fault.
<snap-l> Replaced the power supply with a Thermaltake modular supply
<snap-l> thought "I'll just leave the old connectors in there, as they should work"
<snap-l> Rule #1: Double check, lest you release the sacred smoke
<snap-l> and poof, the sacred smoke was released.
<jrwren> how in the heck did you do that?
<rick_h_> ruh roh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-26
<snap-l> Well, that was fun
<snap-l> Got a new machine in place, so we're good.
<snap-l> 8 core AMD FX
<snap-l> Got the ASUS Sabertooth 990FX to go with it.
<snap-l> SO lister got a brain transplant.
<rick_h_> snap-l: so only fired the mobo then? That's good that some parts survived. sucky over all
<brousch> I hate hardware
<snap-l> yeah, i was worried the drives wrnt south too
<snap-l> got really lucky
<snap-l> not sure if the ram is fried, so if someone needs some ddr2 mem, lmk
<snap-l> i have no way to test it, so if it works it's yourz
<snap-l> l335
<greg-g> my god jetlag
<snap-l> our jetlag, who are't in heaven
<greg-g> bed bound by they aim
<greg-g> s/by/be/
<greg-g> s/they/thy/
<greg-g> #ugh
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, coming back always stinks
<greg-g> well, I still haven't adjusted to Amsterdam time, not sleeping between 12 and 6 am :/
<snap-l> greg-g: So where are you exactly?
<greg-g> Right now? The venue for the hackathon is a hostel (a nice one) called Stay Ok in Amsterdam
<greg-g> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Hackathon_2013
<snap-l> greg-g: Ah, so you're in Amsterdam
<greg-g> indeed, UTC+2
<greg-g> so, +9 from SF
<snap-l> But only +6 from Michigan. :)
<snap-l> so if you do a layover in Michigan, that would help you adjust
<greg-g> yeah, SF is really screwing itself by being on the west coast
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> think of it like surfacing slowly
<snap-l> to prevent the bends
<greg-g> :) don't want the bends
<snap-l> See? It just makes sense.
<snap-l> btw: OMC is on http://metalinjectionfm
<snap-l> rather: http://metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> Man, I got lister's previous incarnation on 12/27/08
<snap-l> And I paid more for 2 sticks of 2GB memory than 1 stick of 8GB memory
<jrwren> jcastro: i was smart and removed your backpack from my car before i parked on the street in hamtrammic last night :)
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> my laptop being stolen is the best thing that could happen to me
<jcastro> I heard on the radio that that city is going under
<jcastro> the state my have to step in to fix their budget, etc.
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> we were talking down teh "sidewalk" and noticed it was bumpier than most nature trails.
<jrwren> completely unmaintained
<jrwren> but the city was alive. it wasnt dead. must be mismanaged.
<jrwren> maybe too many mosques with tax exempt status
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-19
<havenstance> over all that upgrade was probably the most painless i've ever done
<havenstance> to note the issue i had at install this machine being an older machine required me to turn off usb 2.0 in order for it to read the usb key to install from. Other then that everything worked really well
<cmaloney> mornong
<mrgoodcat> so apparently bookiebot's url shortening service decided to go ahead and stop being a service...
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: revolt among the bots!
<mrgoodcat> i'm switching it to google
<mrgoodcat> google shouldn't disappear overnight
<mrgoodcat> although.... http://www.xkcd.com/1361/
<mrgoodcat> I'd like to propose a new internet postulate. If it is on the internet, there is a relevant xkcd
<mrgoodcat> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6504810/how-to-install-lxml-on-ubuntu
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VPRLM9 - python - How to install lxml on Ubuntu - Stack Overflow
<mrgoodcat> thank you bookiebot :)
<rick_h_> hah
<mrgoodcat> not sure why bookiebot failed to join #bookie the first time...
<mrgoodcat> sent a JOIN to the server... never got a response...
<mrgoodcat> oh well. not worth dwelling over
<brousch> Go Detroit! http://www.uscollegesearch.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/crime-rates-in-us.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/hmzWPs - image/jpeg
<cmaloney> fml
 * brousch feels cmaloney's leg
<brousch> Firmer than I thought it would be
<cmaloney> sittig in a coffeeshop in frankenmuth trying to fix an autoprocess that appears to be fuckong up because of network issues
<cmaloney> brousch: double bass :)
<brousch> Frankenmuth is open when it's not winter?!
<cmaloney> yes
<jcastro> n0p, around?
<brousch> rick_h_: I envy your freedom with running your own GSoC. We have extra requirements imposed by the PSF due to their umbrella, and decisions even within our org feel like going through a committee
<rick_h_> brousch: ouch, what's the pita parts?
<brousch> PSF deadlines for things are different from general GSoC, usually 1 day before
<brousch> So for instance our students were supposed to have an initial blog post yesterday, when gsoc deadline is today
<brousch> But we get emails from both places so it's confusing
<brousch> And to make a decision like frequency of reports that we will require we need concensus from 6 people in 4 different times zones
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> GSoC students are required to blog their work?
<mrgoodcat> where are the blogs
<mrgoodcat> ?
<brousch> mrgoodcat: That might be just a PSF requirement http://terri.toybox.ca/python-soc/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rAdWYR - Python's Summer of Code Updates
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Here's the email for the PSF blog deadlines http://pastebin.com/iUwCvwg4
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/g3Ixbs - Florian Fuchs flo.fuchs@gmail.com via python.org Apr 29 to soc2014-general - Pastebin.com
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<gamerchick02> party party rick_h_
<gamerchick02> i got my grocery list done. :-P
<gamerchick02> bein' responsible sucks
<cmaloney> Yep
<rick_h_> heh, pretty much
<rick_h_> http://www.beautiful-places.com/villas/alexander_valley_ranch man I need more $$
<rick_h_> http://www.beautiful-places.com/villas/moonrise wow
<cmaloney> Oh, that's purdy
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> everyone needs more money
<gamerchick02> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-20
<snap-l> morning
<cmaloney> And Good morning again. :)
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> I miss snap-l
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> snap-l is an asshole
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> harsh
<mrgoodcat> morning
<brousch> Weird. chrome tagged the example code from Apache Solr Beginner's Guide as malware http://examples.oreilly.com/9781782162520/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/vp1NRq - Index of /9781782162520
<mrgoodcat> i didn't get any flags
<mrgoodcat> on chrome beta
<brousch> You downloaded the whole thing?
<brousch> Mine doesn't complain until the end
<mrgoodcat> oh
<mrgoodcat> glad to see goo.gl link shortening is working
<mrgoodcat> no complaints
<mrgoodcat> even opened the zip from chrome
<mrgoodcat> don't know what to tell you man
<cmaloney> upload the file to virustotal to see what happens.
<brousch> I'm sure it's a false positive
 * cmaloney is checking it now.
<cmaloney> https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/b01506485b94c684fea05f63636aae61c65d4b3fd80f07f41386b91adad386fe/analysis/1400591669/
<brousch> MS Security Essentials found nothing
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8gkVrx - Scan report for http://examples.oreilly.com/9781782162520/9781782162520_Code.zip at 2014-05-20 13:14:29 UTC - VirusTotal
<cmaloney> Malwware Patrol is calling it malicious
<cmaloney> but it's the only one
<mrgoodcat> wonder how it determines malware
<mrgoodcat> might be some syscall that is suspicious or something
<brousch> Looks like maybe a link to a malicious site?
<brousch> The response exceeds the maximum file size allowed by the application
<brousch> So it marked it as malicious because the file was too large for it to scan?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch> That's some quality reporting
<mrgoodcat> sounds like you need new scanning software
<brousch> mrgoodcat: That's from the virustotal scan
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> i was sort of wondering why you even had an antivirus
<mrgoodcat> virustotal makes sense
<cmaloney> http://quttera.com/detailed_report/examples.oreilly.com
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Q6pBb9 - FREE Online Website Malware Scanner | Website Security Monitoring & Malware Removal | Quttera
<brousch> [['articleasidefooterheadernavsectiontime'.replace]]
<brousch> That does look evil
<mrgoodcat> it links to w3.org
<mrgoodcat> that's called out as potentially harmful
<cmaloney> A known hive of scum and villainary.
<brousch> geez
<cmaloney> This is why wget was invented.
<cmaloney> or curl
<cmaloney> curl don't care.
<brousch> I can override the Chrome block
<cmaloney> curl you know it's truuuuue.
<cmaloney> be my curl
<cmaloney> curl just wanna have fun.
<jrwren> I love curl. such a great tool.
<jrwren> and libcurl too. <3
<cmaloney> My only complaint about curl is it's not wget. :)
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> my complaint about wget is often, its not curl.
<jrwren> I use wget if I want to recurse.
<cmaloney> my fingers type wget faster than curl http://blah > filename
<jrwren> if I don't want to recurse, I use curl
<jrwren> > filename?
<jrwren> I curl -O or curl -o
<jrwren> and I leave off the http:// :)
<jrwren> curl -O cmaloney.com/music/newalbum.7z
<jrwren> :p
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not attuned to using it
<cmaloney> but yeah, curl is better than wget
<jrwren> i don't know that I'd say better for all. its better for some.
<jrwren> wget is definitely better at recursing
<cmaloney> wget is great for mirroring sites that you don't have rsync access. ;)
<jrwren> yeah!
<jrwren> and it cna fix the links after you mirror
<mrgoodcat> have to make sure you -L with curl if you are getting shortlinks
<cmaloney> nobody uses shortlinks. :)
<jrwren> wtf is a shortlink.
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> bitly
<jrwren> yeah, follows redirects is helpful.
<jrwren> .np
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Millenium Petals (Thorn) by INDEX on Sky Laced Silver
<jrwren> :p
<mrgoodcat> hmmm never heard of that
 * mrgoodcat goes to listen
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Sorciere by La Floa Maldita on Orkus: The Best of 90's, Volume 3 (disc 2)
<mrgoodcat> not on spotify D:
<mrgoodcat> neither of them on spotify....
<mrgoodcat> oh well, guess i'll just listen to testament
<mrgoodcat> doesn't someone here work for wikimedia foundation?\
<mrgoodcat> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2014/05/how-a-raccoon-became-an-aardvark.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HJNUzo - How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark : The New Yorker
<mrgoodcat> not very talky today
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/high-high-elf-stabs-portland-woman-car-sword-article-1.1797157
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Ry6riF - High âhigh elfâ stabs Portland womanâs car with sword - NY Daily News
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> dat title
<mrgoodcat> not even sure i need to read the article
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I call that entertainment from the coffee shop
<mrgoodcat> wouldn't role playing be way better on acid tho
<mrgoodcat> instead of pretending to fight a dragon, you can actually think you're fighting a freaking dragon
<greg-g> "coffee" shop
<rick_h_> :)
<mrgoodcat> no way jono bacon stepped down from canonical
<cmaloney> Wow, just now reading about Jono moving to XPrize.
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> XPrize?
<greg-g> weird
<cmaloney> Yeah, apparently they need someone to build a community there or something. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/05/19/goodbye-canonical-hello-xprize/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jPsN0s - Goodbye Canonical, Hello XPRIZE | jonobacon@home
<mrgoodcat> apparently this was yesterday and i just missed it
<mrgoodcat> somehow
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'm behind in my RSS feeds.
<cmaloney> Actually I know the true secret
<greg-g> (money)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: not sure how involved you are in juju community but you may want to be aware of the creation of this  subreddit http://www.reddit.com/r/juju
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xHRzDS - Too Many Requests
<mrgoodcat> aw damn
<mrgoodcat> can't use goo.gl obviously
<cmaloney> XPrize is looking to hold a contest with a noted Barbecue sauce purveyor to creat the ultimate sauce.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: already going around
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: and I've subscribed
<cmaloney> and to smoke the living shit out of every piece of meat on planet Earth. :)
<mrgoodcat> hmmm... apparently "Too Many Requests" doesn't mean what i think it does.... because he hasn't even nearly hit google's rate limit
<mrgoodcat> and i can still make shortlinks with pm
<greg-g> reddit
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: maybe that was from the upstream?
<cmaloney> reddit doesn't like you. :)
<mrgoodcat> i'm looking at the lxml tree right now
<greg-g> reddit does that every now and then
<greg-g> scale, you know, it's hard
<cmaloney> I've noticed any reddit link you make gets a "Too many requests"
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> i think digitalocean IP addresses are permanently ratelimited
<cmaloney> as they should be. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-21
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Void by Ringtailed Snorter on There Is No Time (disc 3)
<jrwren> PARTY!
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Your Truth by Imperative Reaction on Redemption
<jrwren> this is so weird.
<jrwren> i want dch on macosx
<jrwren> cuz its "just" python, but often I want to dch -i
<jrwren> so that our build server will automatically cut a new package
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Watching Over You (Implant remix) by Solitary Experiments on Cause and Effect CDM [21 May 2014, 18:47]
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Watching Over You (Implant remix) by Solitary Experiments on Cause and Effect CDM [21 May 2014, 18:47]
<cmaloney> dammit
<mrgoodcat> not scrobbling properly?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Watching Over You (Implant remix) by Solitary Experiments on Cause and Effect CDM [21 May 2014, 18:47]
<cmaloney> yeah, though that's last.fm
<cmaloney> Ah well
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HMh15h8DWg&feature=kp
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/M2P32b - Stromkern-Slow cascade - YouTube
<cmaloney> That was what I was trying to share.
<cmaloney> And when it rains...
<cmaloney> dad-in-law is going to the hospital. Not sure if he's having an alergic reaction to cough medicine.
<brousch> ah geez
<cmaloney> yep
<cmaloney> Hanging out at Beaumont. :)
<jrwren> ooooo stromkern.
<jrwren> nice guy
<cmaloney> Yeah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-22
<rick_h_> I think my life has taken a downward turn https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/459
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/khM88b - fails to display on my ebook reader (Sony PRS-T2) Â· Issue #459 Â· bookieio/Bookie Â· GitHub
<cmaloney> rick_h_: How's that?
<cmaloney> Seriously, if someone is trying to use Bookie on an eReader that's a big win. :)
<rick_h_> hah, trying to figure out why that fails?
<rick_h_> there's some debugging for me wheee
<rick_h_> cmaloney: how goes the father?
<brousch> wontfix
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> rick_h_: He's OK. Keeping him overnight
<cmaloney> blah blah blah
<cmaloney> ssdd
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :(
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, fun times.
<cmaloney> And with the upcoming move stuff it's been a bit depressing over here.
<cmaloney> Got a lot of shit to take care of in the next few weeks
<rick_h_> cmaloney: well you know the rule. Let us know if there's anything you guys need a hand with.
<cmaloney> Thanks. :)
<cmaloney> same here on your end. :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, off to the land of dreams and makebelieve.
<cmaloney> laterness
<jrwren> good morning!
<rick_h_> party
<mrgoodcat> dance
<cmaloney> party party
<rick_h_> who says I'm not dancing?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: missed you at CHC last night, lots of chromebook conversations we missed you at
<havenstance>   n/M / m
<rick_h_> ummm, no?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: what sort of conversation? the condescending kind i'd rather miss or real constructive conversation?
<mrgoodcat> i've taken a lot of shit over the past 5 days or so for using a chromebook for whatever reason
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oh quite constructive
<rick_h_> one guy bought one for his wife and is liking it
<mrgoodcat> ah
<rick_h_> and was asking about people editing choices, ssh or web ides
<mrgoodcat> what one?
<rick_h_> running ubuntu/dual booting, etc
<rick_h_> not sure
<mrgoodcat> wish i was there
<mrgoodcat> i have family in from texas and florida this week
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<mrgoodcat> if the screen was better i'd have no complaints about the chromebook
<brousch> pixel!
<mrgoodcat> I used to hate on the keyboard but i've gotten used to it
<mrgoodcat> brousch: i want a pixel. want to donate to my pixel fund?
<brousch> Chromebooks are perfect for a large segment of the population. You cannot argue against that
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I was hoping you had one laying around I could have
<mrgoodcat> i just spent 500$ on my mountainbike though so i'm a bit short on disposable cash
<jrwren> do you use a chromebook and run chromeos?
<mrgoodcat> yes and yes/no
<mrgoodcat> i dual boot ubuntu
<mrgoodcat> which i use for work and anything requiring a "real" OS
<mrgoodcat> but i use chromeos a lot at home for pleasure and such
<mrgoodcat> i used to use the web IDEs available for chrome but eventually i wanted my CLI back
<mrgoodcat> i tried to ssh to a dev server for a while but SSH is cumbersome sometimes. local dev is the preferred option
<mrgoodcat> so then i tried crouton, which worked great for a while
<mrgoodcat> but then i needed to use lxc
<mrgoodcat> and crouton isn't advanced enough to support the more advanced kernel options
<mrgoodcat> so i had to go to chrubuntu
<rick_h_> can you map the search (caps lock) to control, that's the important question
<mrgoodcat> when i upgraded to 14.04 the chrubuntu script broke, so i went with a flat install which works great
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: yes you can
<rick_h_> if you can do that maybe my next machine should be a pixel or pixel2
<mrgoodcat> my "search" is control and control is <super>
<brousch> rick_h_: pixel only has 4GB of RAM
<rick_h_> oh, no meta key? my window manager cringes in fear
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: what meta key do you speak of? <alt>?
<rick_h_> brousch: meh, I don't recall the last time my laptop went over 4
<mrgoodcat> i have an <alt> key
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: windows key, meta-4 I think, it's the basis for all my window manager controls
<rick_h_> tiling layouts, splits, etc
<mrgoodcat> the "search" key is the meta key
<mrgoodcat> by default
 * rick_h_ looks at the picture
<rick_h_> I see, giant ctrl and alt keys
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> huge
<rick_h_> I'm trying to make myself use the air and trying to force myself to like it so I can justify getting the 13" version and moving on
<jrwren> i don't think I could do chromeos, but maybe I'll try someday.  I'll claim its mrgoodcat fault
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i'll sell you my c720p if i get a pixel
<jrwren> cheap?
<mrgoodcat> it was 200$ new so yea super cheap
<mrgoodcat> lol
<jrwren> cool
<mrgoodcat> IF i get a pixel
<jrwren> IFF
<mrgoodcat> i just don't have the cash right now
<jrwren> remember maths.  IFF means if and only if
<mrgoodcat> no just IF. because i might get some other new version or an air or something
<mrgoodcat> in which case i'd still not need this
<jrwren> YAY
<jrwren> just if!
<cmaloney> The keyboard layout on the Chrome is what keeps me away.
<cmaloney> I used Mac keyboards enough with Ubuntu to know that I like having my keyboard mapping match what the computer is expecting. :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: the keyboard really doesn't bother me on mine
<mrgoodcat> just miss f keys
<mrgoodcat> i only have 1-10
<jrwren> wtf?!?
<mrgoodcat> there are only 10 f keys on the c720
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a dealbreaker. :)
<cmaloney> I use my Fn keys.
<mrgoodcat> really? not for me
<jrwren> oh, i almost never use F keys
<mrgoodcat> i'm only missing 11 and 12
<jrwren> 'cept volume controls on a mac
<jrwren> e.g. this conversation had me notice the play/pause button on my KB
<jrwren> now I'll use that too.
<mrgoodcat> you can map the chrome f keys to do what the pictures say
<jrwren> I had been changing windows and pressing pause until now
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: get a gaming mouse with 12 buttons. map them to f keys
<mathomastech> cmaloney: A suggestions for you. I've remapped my caps lock key (seach on most chromebooks) to cmd+alt+ctl+shift. Then map caps+1 = F1, caps+2 = F2, etc etc. That caps combo is unique so it never runs into issues with application specific shortcuts.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: How about no. :)
<mrgoodcat> :)
<cmaloney> mathomastech: How does one get to the ttys under that convoluted scheme? :)
 * cmaloney uses those at least once a week.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i can get to my ttys
<mrgoodcat> i still have 10 fkeys
<mrgoodcat> and ctrl and alt
<mrgoodcat> not sure why mathomastech did that weird remap. since the media keys are just f keys
<mathomastech> cmaloney. No idea. I don't actually use that combo for F keys (I actually have functions keys). I use the combo for other custom shortcuts
<cmaloney> Yeah, I use F11 for making things fullscreen.
<cmaloney> Though I could just use the menu for that.
 * cmaloney also uses Blender from time to time. :)
 * cmaloney is also about finished with that "Debt, the first 5,000 years book.
<mathomastech> mrgoodcat: Because at heart, I love being weird :)  I hate the caps lock key, so I decided to make it useful by having my own custom shortcut modifier.
<mrgoodcat> fair i guess
<cmaloney> That book is the closest I have seen to taking the red pill regarding the financial crisis we're currently facing.
<mathomastech> Just like i've remapped F1 to be something useful (dropdown terminal) rather than the always invasive help menu.
<mrgoodcat> guake++
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> have never liked guake
<mrgoodcat> i don't use it anymore
<mrgoodcat> tiling window manager takes care of all my terminal needs now
<jrwren> ok... i want to use this method to add members to built in types http://blog.hakril.net/articles/1-understanding-python-by-breaking-it---lvl-2.html?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=4abbdd6e2e-Python_Weekly_Issue_140_May_22_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9e26887fc5-4abbdd6e2e-306809429
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v831rz - Understanding Python by breaking it - Lvl 2 - Hakril's blog
<greg-g> people still listen to Slipknot?
<greg-g> also, retired rich Sonoma county couples in full road biking getup (spandex etc) are hilarious
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: saw petaluma on the map and jealous of where you're at. Right around all my fav wine stuff
<rick_h_> been spending a ton of time going through google maps checking locations and activities and such
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: What's wrong with Slipknot?
<greg-g> too bad we only have one bottle of wine in the house, an old white that I'll never drink (I only really drink red)
<cmaloney> Other than I don't have any of their albums nor do I have any plans to pick them up in the near future
<greg-g> cmaloney: too juvenile
<rick_h_> yea, we're a red house as well
<cmaloney> greg-g: Bah. :)
<cmaloney> metal has always been retrograde in some fashion.
<greg-g> cmaloney: I listened to/had a slipknot album in hiigh school during my angsty years too, but... just thought they might have retired by now :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: No, but they did let Joey Jordinson go.
 * greg-g doesn't know the names
<cmaloney> Which I equate in the same vein as letting Mike Portnoy go from Dream Theater.
<cmaloney> Joey was teh drummer
<cmaloney> FOunding member, voice of the band. Etc.
<cmaloney> nd yeah, outside of Cory Taylor (only because of the insufferable Stone Sour) and Joey I couldn't pick any of them out of a lineup.
<greg-g> oh yeah, that's fair
<cmaloney> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U7TMqLh70z8/U34m2tzbjGI/AAAAAAAADTI/Zbr5vxxsapQ/s756-no/2014+-+1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/AGqfvq - image/jpeg
<cmaloney> sometimes adult me wishes he could be kid me again.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> don't we all
 * cmaloney says over and over "I will not pick up X-Wing Miniatures because it is just a money sink."
<greg-g> fucking assholes who go to coffee shops ansd watch fucking streaming movies on their ipads
<greg-g> making me lag all to fuck
<cmaloney> Open Wifi?
<cmaloney> That's when to fire up Firesheep. :)
<greg-g> WPA
<cmaloney> Dammit
<greg-g> "Firesheep is free, open source, and is available now for Mac OS X and Windows. Linux support is on the way."
<greg-g> alright changing venues
<greg-g> fuck this
<cmaloney> greg-g: That's horseshit.
<jrwren> two years of using this laptop and I never used the pause/play kb button until today.
<jrwren> thanks guys!
<jrwren> I've used it like dozen+ times already
<greg-g> I hate to say it, but I'm at a starbucks now
<rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the club, sometimes when there's no other options
<rick_h_> greg-g: you take what you can get
<rick_h_> and I do like their soy lattes :/
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: starbux has good wifi
<greg-g> I just got an iced coffee
<jrwren> openwifi - ssh home and tunnel all
<greg-g> but effing Oprah co-branding?
<rick_h_> yea, the one by us has the google branded wifi (business class uverse) which was fast
<jrwren> SBUX shares MUST GO UP!
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> oh right, I need to go setup my vpn again
<jrwren> SBUX competition is McDonalds.
<mrgoodcat> for wifi?
<jrwren> no, for dollars
<mrgoodcat> any way to figure out which starbux has google wifi?
<jrwren> you really think it will be faster than ATT?
<greg-g> and done (vpn'ing now)
<jrwren> its just business class uverse.
<jrwren> not like it is google's ISP
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: they say up to 10x speedup. but that's probably mostly marketing crap
<rick_h_> jrwren: so before my starbucks had a crappy 3mb line through att
<rick_h_> google moved it up to a 50 down  15 up connection
<rick_h_> I think they're just subsidizing a bigger att pipe
<rick_h_> it still shows as an att connection
<jrwren> nice!
<jrwren> yeah, I'd prefer that SBUX
<greg-g> jrwren: as a stock holder, can you complain that they gave me a weak ass plastic plate intead of a real one? it just feels so cheap.
<cmaloney> hah
<jrwren> greg-g: i'm not. but my sister and wife are.
<greg-g> please be my proxy proxy
<jrwren> why not buy a share yourself and bring it up at the annual shareholders meeting?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> good call!
<jrwren> plus, when you visit seatle for the ASM, its technically a business trip and you can expense it.
<rick_h_> jcastro: what's the state of the steam box and controller stuff? Can I buy one soon?
<jcastro> controller isn't out until the fall
<jcastro> until then you need an xbox controller + dongle
<rick_h_> my wife is lamenting that we never got a wii and I'd rather steam box it than get a ps4 or xbox1
<jcastro> which can be found cheap used everywhere
<jcastro> oh, for casual games?
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> consider a fireTV (dead serious)
<cmaloney> what sort of casual games?
<jcastro> it has casual support and gamepad support
<jcastro> it's pretty non-crappy
<rick_h_> ugh, but I hate amazon not putting their movies on android and don't want to support them and I hear the controller is crappy
<jrwren> a wii, like old wii?
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> just get one off craigslist.  they are CHEAP
<jcastro> the fire can use xbox controllers
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea she always wanted a wii, but I'd like something that's supported and I might play a game/two on a steambox
<jcastro> their movies are on android, just their android, heh
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, that doesn't count
<rick_h_> not my N10 :(
<jcastro> well, most of the DRM video stuff is crap, you're always going to be doomed in one way or another
<rick_h_> the steambox stuff seems perfect after cmaloney's demo and talk t MUG
<jcastro> you won't have movies or netflix on it though
<rick_h_> yea, I've got roku's for that stuf
<jcastro> ah ok
<rick_h_> I've got a roku 3 and a chromecast on every tv in the house
<rick_h_> (and my second monitor in my office)
<jrwren> hehe @ every tv in the house.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: May want to set up a steam account on your Linux machine and browse the available games
<jrwren> we have 1 tv at our house.
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, well 2
<brousch> jrwren: Us too
<rick_h_> we've got one in the guest room we actually use, and one in a downstairs living room we never use
<cmaloney> there's a few "casual" games there but most of them are decidedly not "casual"
<brousch> 1 TV total, 1 tablet and 1 laptop per family member
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, I've got steam on ubuntu and other than 4k issues I've got a couple of games I'd play
<cmaloney> ie: Wii bowling isn't showing up on Steam. :)
<jrwren> brousch: and 5 phones each :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lol
<rick_h_> there was an ouya article recently that got me interested in causual games for the house
<brousch> So get an ouya!
<mrgoodcat> ouya!
<jcastro> rick_h_, out of curiosity, why chromecast when you have dedicated rokus with remotes?
<rick_h_> jcastro: because roku can't do google content which is on my N10
<rick_h_> jcastro: and my N10 can't do content I bought on AMZ on my rokus
<jcastro> rick_h_, agree with cmaloney, the casual games on steam are for like, nerds, not normal people
<rick_h_> jcastro: so I'm stuck in two worlds pissed at everyone
<jcastro> wait
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/44647f7418126f
<jcastro> you buy content instead of rent?
<rick_h_> yes, I have a 4yr old
<rick_h_> by week two...it's paid for itself
<jcastro> oh, that sucks
<rick_h_> even with tv days only be fri/sat/sun
<rick_h_> but when we go 'camping' I hook the N10 up to the tv and play offline movies
<jcastro> I mean, I dont have my own so when they come over it's like, netflix kids, play, and walk away
<rick_h_> yea, but they don't have a lot of content, a TON of disney, etc
<rick_h_> and that's streaming which we're not always able to do
<rick_h_> offline ftw sometimes
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm afan of buying content when I can.
<rick_h_> and for $35, the chromecast is an impulse buy
<cmaloney> streaming is for suckers. :)
<rick_h_> hmm, ouya, wii on ebay, or something
<rick_h_> ok, well good to know. Shame that steam box controller stuff is so far out
<cmaloney> I'm a little lukewarm on the Ouya.
<rick_h_> didn't they annouce it some 6+ months ago?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Here's a thought...
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, that article hit the sweet spot I think though
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i read that same article
<jcastro> the ouya is DOA
<jcastro> it's done
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: didn't it make you want to go get one?
 * rick_h_ checks if it's from someone that works for them :P
<jcastro> the firetv can do about everything the ouya can and has AAA content, they're doomed
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: yea it did
<jcastro> rick_h_, in general steam is for gamers, casual games are far and few between unfortunately
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Atari-Flashback-2-Plug-Play/dp/B00093DHIK
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cQ2k - Amazon.com: Atari Flashback 2+ Plug-in-Play: Video Games
<jcastro> like, tetris, there's no tetris in steam
<jcastro> but it's like $2 on the firetv
<rick_h_> jcastro: so it's basically android games available in their store?
<jcastro> yeah, but since they have their own lame app store
<jcastro> the games need to be submitted by the devs specifically to amazon
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh, I like to causual blow up zombies in left4dead :)
<jcastro> which means that it's not as many, but on the flip side it's not a bunch of garbage like the play store either
<mrgoodcat> i liked how that article made the ouya sound
<mrgoodcat> but idk if it was 100$ worth of like
<jcastro> I have one if you want to mess with it, though the gas money to get down here is probably more than the firetv, heh
<rick_h_> lol yea
<cmaloney> pthhhpt.
<mrgoodcat> lol where is "down here"?
<brousch> Does fireTV have custom controllers like ouya?
<jcastro> rick_h_, used wii is the way to go, there's tons of them out there
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'd go with a used Wii in most circumstances.
<jcastro> brousch, it has an xbox-like controller that you can buy with it, or it can use xbox controllers with a dongle
<rick_h_> yea, aren't some of the games losing their back end servers and such though?
<rick_h_> I worry that it was so 'internet connected' that it'll be a brick
<cmaloney> save for "I only have HDMI ports on the back of my TV"
<brousch> You have to code for the controllers with ouya. You can't just take any old Android game and slap it on there
<jcastro> when I say wii I mean whatever the newest wii is
<jcastro> not the first wii
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Assume there's no Online play for the Wii
<cmaloney> The WiiU is a joke.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, that kind of sucks
<cmaloney> and this is coming from a Wii owner.
<rick_h_> amz should be sending me a firetv as a prime member that spends too much $$ on their crap, including their movies/etc on my roku boxes
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> what is wrong with WiiU? it looks nice.
<mrgoodcat> i know at least one person very happy with his wiiu
<rick_h_> ok, guess I'll have to think more on it. I'm darn curious to try out a steambox though. Without the work of installing/etc. Just plug-n-play
<rick_h_> well, plug-login-play
<jrwren> i stills say ebay or CL an old Wii, buy used games for it - they are cheap and will make your wife happy
<brousch> Yes, plenty of games for the child too. All of the LEGO games
<jcastro> rick_h_, a nuc would be a nice steambox
<cmaloney> The problem I have with the WiiU is that NIntendo is once again releasing the same shit they released for the GC and Wii
<jcastro> it'd be portable too
<brousch> Although they look much better on PS3
<rick_h_> jcastro: +1
<cmaloney> just with another controller in the mix.
<jrwren> how much does a NUC cost?
<rick_h_> jrwren: well fleshed out around $500
<jcastro> rick_h_, witcher2 is out for linux, but it needs a more powerful card than an intel
<jcastro> jrwren, depends, they come in kits too
<jcastro> as low as 300, as high as 700
<jrwren> I know you can buy an ipad mini + apple TV for WELL under that, and place nice games on your TV
<rick_h_> jcastro: saw that, I need to fire up steam again sometime on my desktop
<jcastro> everyone should buy it, it's four dollars
<jcastro> and a AAA game
<jcastro> show them we exist, etc.
<rick_h_> jcastro: when I get around to stop working in time to play a game before bed
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's lots of cool games for Linux
<jrwren> $229 ipadmini + $99 appletv => $328 - still cheaper than a NUC + cables :p
<cmaloney> There's a few more casual games on there though.
<jrwren> LOTS more casual games on ios
<cmaloney> rick_h_: We'll need to have a gaming party or something
<rick_h_> I think the whole amz vs google play thing sucks, I'm never going back to iAnything
<rick_h_> cmaloney: definitely
<cmaloney> and anyone else in here that's hopped on the gaming discussion. :)
<jcastro> jrwren, your solution to rick's lockin problem is even worse lockin?
<cmaloney> jcastro: it's iLocks.
<jrwren> lockin problem?
<jrwren> EVERYTHING in the game industry is lockin. If you don't want lockin, don't play video games.
<jcastro> he was talking about videos
<greg-g> weird, I connect with my vpn and the starbucks wifi kicks me off in 5 minutes, reconnect plain style and I'm fine
<brousch> There are games on F-Droid
<jcastro> rick_h_, I'll show you how to truly avoid lockin with plex dude
<jrwren> greg-g: what kind of VPN?
<greg-g> uhhh, cisco compat with my work?
<greg-g> s/with/via/
<jrwren> dunno :(
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, all that seems cool but I just don't have the time to maintain/build stuff any more. I'm a dumb user
<jcastro> yeah I hear ya
<rick_h_> I want to be a cool kid and all, but too grown up
<greg-g> 'tis why I went with a synology nas :/
<jrwren> excuses!
<jrwren> if it were important to you, you would do it!
<greg-g> Rowan trumps *
<rick_h_> greg-g: +1
<jrwren> build it with rowan :p
<jcastro> as stupid as the online services are, I love that it's still 50x better than how the TV and cable companies want you to do things
<jrwren> ^^ yup
<rick_h_> at some point you've got more $$ than free time, hello lawn mower service, hello camper dealer doing my maintenance
<jcastro> rick_h_, yeah sucks about the split brain on your video though
<jcastro> I also have a lawn service, etc.
<greg-g> jrwren: he doesn't do much of that 'building' quite yet, mostly the 'destroying part ;)
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I really wish amz would have their app for all android and then I'd just use them
<rick_h_> jcastro: but because they don't I've started to go with pure google, at least a chromecast is $35 vs $99 for the roku with amz
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah +1
<greg-g> also, take back the 'no vpn works fine' here, this AP is just dropping every now ad then, too
<jcastro> yeah at least you get HDMI CEC with  the chromecast so you're not fuddling with input garbage all day
<jrwren> greg-g: yeah, Lilly is finally reading at a good level, so she can help with a lot more things.
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: you on the attwifi or google? just to satisfy my curiosity
<mrgoodcat> .stock noc
<bookiebot> Northrop Grumman - $118.604 +0.344 (+0.29%) H:$118.89 L:$118.01 O:$118.27 Volume:493208 [2:18pm]
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: att
<jrwren> fun bot.
<jrwren> .stock sbux
<bookiebot> Starbucks Corpora - $71.65 +1.25 (+1.78%) H:$71.77 L:$70.30 O:$70.36 Volume:2469506 [2:20pm]
<jrwren> .stock mcd
<bookiebot> McDonald's Corpor - $102.51 -0.05 (-0.05%) H:$102.98 L:$102.23 O:$102.65 Volume:1435242 [2:20pm]
<greg-g> .stock wmf
<mrgoodcat> you have to know the symbol though. It doesn't do any closest match or anything
<greg-g> oh right, we're a nonprofit that cares about the world, not money
<greg-g> :P
<mrgoodcat> oh lol i was about to check the debug console to figure out what went wrong
<greg-g> I'm just a troll :)
<mrgoodcat> HLO is high low open for the current day
<mrgoodcat> time is the time of the last trade
<brousch> greg-g: How can we measure your org's worth if it does not have a stock price?!
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<brousch> Obviously it is worthless
<greg-g> there have been attempts, we're in the tens of billions
<mrgoodcat> must be
<brousch> Maybe we could measure it by the losses incurred by your commercial competitors. How is the encyclopedia business these days?
<greg-g> none-existent
<greg-g> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-much-is-wikipedia-worth-704865/?no-ist
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fzGZTR - How Much is Wikipedia Worth? | Smart News | Smithsonian
<mrgoodcat> brousch: that's probably not even too bad of an estimate
<mrgoodcat> low i'd guess though
<greg-g> economists did what you're asking, see above
<mrgoodcat> yea just read that
<cmaloney> .stock alu
<bookiebot> Alcatel-Lucent Co - $3.82 -0.07 (-1.80%) H:$3.89 L:$3.81 O:$3.88 Volume:9572030 [2:47pm]
<cmaloney> That surprises me.
<jrwren> why? they have been in toilet for years.
<jrwren> i paid $50/share for that dud.
<jrwren> .stock MMLP
<bookiebot> Martin Midstream - $40.02 -0.02 (-0.05%) H:$40.29 L:$39.96 O:$40.00 Volume:45410 [2:51pm]
<cmaloney> Im surprised they're not still floating around $1
<jrwren> whoa! good deal.
<cmaloney> Which is where it was when I left.
<cmaloney> waf: You still on track to head overseas?
<cmaloney> seems the shit is hitting the fan over there politically.
<cmaloney> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27529563
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ldbOfv - BBC News - Questions remain about Thai army's sudden takeover
<cmaloney> rick_h_: https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs
<rick_h_> the clear?
<cmaloney> Any of them.
<cmaloney> Looks interesting.
<cmaloney> https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,compact&pid=fc660ceg <- This also looks way expensive. :)
<cmaloney> But... switchable CTRL / Caps Lock
<rick_h_> it's the topre switches
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've never used those.
<rick_h_> yea, I can't get over the price tag
<rick_h_> it's the one keyboard switch I've not tried due to price
<rick_h_> I did pick up one of the thinkpad keyboards and used that this last week+ with the trackpoint on it
<rick_h_> but I do start to get wrist pain these days when on the desktop. I end up back on my kenesis like greg-g
<cmaloney> Ugh
<rick_h_> yea, kind of bummed
<rick_h_> but bound to happen I guess
<rick_h_> that thinkpad keyboard makes an awesome small 'server' keyboard though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-23
<jrwren> why do you need switchable ctrl / caps lock? just make whatever OS you are using do that.
<jrwren> i can't even use computers with kb that don't capslock as ctrl anymore :(
<rick_h_> jrwren: I was wondering about chromeos
<rick_h_> I don't know if it has a method to change that mapping for ctrl-t and w and such for opening/closing tabs
<waf> cmaloney: yeah, we're monitoring it. might hang around australia for a bit waiting for things to calm down
<jrwren> *gasp*
<jrwren> could be a show stopper for me on chromeos
<cmaloney> waf: Hope you all stay safe
<waf> thanks
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/177875?hl=en
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: right, I was just explaining to jrwren why I cared
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> i really ought to make bookiebot handle netsplits better
<mrgoodcat> currently just times out and quits
<mrgoodcat> they're slowly adding functionality to chromeos that "full" operating systems have
<mrgoodcat> the little things like screenshots and remapping
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: just went to my keyboard settings and remapped my keys. not only can you remap the meta keys, but there is an option to use the media keys as f keys like they are in ubuntu (a major pain point for me in chrome os)
<mrgoodcat> http://imgur.com/Rk23mmo
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/uJGjOf - imgur: the simple image sharer
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: coolio
<mrgoodcat> bourbon chocolate sauce
<mrgoodcat> mmmmmm
<jrwren> party party
<rick_h_> thief!
<brousch_> partly party
<jrwren> immitation is flatery.
<brousch_> Portly Patty pooted prettily past Patrick's potty party.
<jrwren> i do'n't know that I've ever heard that one
<brousch_> I just made it up
<mrgoodcat> potty party?
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: Interested?
<jrwren> whoa, more reason to ddg http://www.metafilter.com/139305/The-Mother-of-All-Self-Links
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/PcQiEu - The Mother of All Self Links? | MetaFilter
<cmaloney> What exactly does Metafilter do?
<cmaloney> I've never quite understood that site.
<mrgoodcat> should just go home now instead of at lunch
<mrgoodcat> "google is breaking the internet" seems like a bit of a dramatic title...
<cmaloney> Well, it's breaking Metafilter.
<mrgoodcat> sorry your business model revolved around the support of a company that has exactly zero financial interest in you
<cmaloney> so they have a vested self-interest
<brousch_> metafilter is like fark/dig or a poor-man's reddit
<brousch_> digg?
<cmaloney> So basically a community of folks that post links to stuff on the internet.
<brousch_> yes
<brousch_> But with a website theme right from 1998
<jrwren> i never understood metafilter either.
<mrgoodcat> it's pretty much exactly the kind of thing that the google updates are trying to stop
<mrgoodcat> also ebay. glad something is being done about ebayspam
<brousch_> ebayspam?
<mrgoodcat> seems like every time i search for anything, multiple google results will be ebayers trying to sell me that thing
<mrgoodcat> here's the link to the article if you haven't seen it http://www.wordstream.com/blog/ws/2014/05/21/panda-4
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/RSVg9N - Panda 4.0: Why eBay Just Lost 80% of its Organic Rankings | WordStream
<mrgoodcat> also, the google results you get that point to ebay are usually crap
<mrgoodcat> it's not even useful if i'm trying to find something on ebay
<cmaloney> eBay has gone into the shitter anyway
<mrgoodcat> yea. the organic links to ebay ALL suck. the prices aren't great anymore. buyers hate it. sellers hate it.
<cmaloney> I used to sell on eBay. I just closed my account yesterday
<cmaloney> I know other folks who routinely post stuff on eBay and have constantly bitched about how they screw sellers.
<cmaloney> frankly I find the whole thing a race to the bottom.
<mrgoodcat> i find when i sell used stuff i have the best luck just selling to friends
<mrgoodcat> i probably sell for less money but i get to feel like i gave someone i know a deal and i know i'm not going to get shanked like craigslist deals
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've never used, nor do I plan on using Craigslist
<brousch_> I have used it twice and it went well both times :P
<brousch_> But then I don't live in The D
<cmaloney> brousch_: Right, but we're not trolling the "missed connections" portions. :)
<cmaloney> you: running away screaming "help, please get this creep away from me".
<cmaloney> me: madly in love.
<cmaloney> Call me.
<brousch_> I got my son's drum set for $60 on Craigslist :P
<cmaloney> So we've accounted for both times. :)
<mrgoodcat> craigslist isn't inherently bad. just sometimes can be kinda shady
<mrgoodcat> craigslist deals gone wrong are pretty commonplace in the news
<mrgoodcat> also brousch_ :< Detroit is fine you be nice
<brousch_> i imagine every Craigslist deal in Detroit involves guns and a posse
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Liquid Fire by Gojira on L'Enfant Sauvage
 * cmaloney fucking loves this album
<mrgoodcat> anybody use the new beta.congress.gov?
<greg-g> holy https://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/what-does-gchq-know-about-our-devices-that-we-dont
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/2aKBz2 - What does GCHQ know about our devices that we don't? | Privacy International
<mrgoodcat> yea i saw that yesterday. it kind of scared me
<mrgoodcat> like why the hell would they care about keyboard controllers?
<mrgoodcat> could it be something innocuous like a buffer that doesn't get flushed immediately?
<jrwren> its related to aliens.
<jrwren> you see, aliens can read the historical contents of larger transistors like ones used in KB controllers.
<cmaloney> Or the "take no chances" mentality
<jrwren> foreign governments have been working with the aliens to obtain data from large transistor keybaord controllers
<cmaloney> though in this day and age I'm sure it's because there's some buffering going on
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure it's buffering related to regular use
<mrgoodcat> that could potentially be used to store the data even if the hard drives are changed out
<mrgoodcat> "technically possible"
<mrgoodcat> for all the privacy nuts out there https://www.eff.org/privacybadger
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/AJEihN - Privacy Badger | Electronic Frontier Foundation
<greg-g> I'm going with jrwren's analysis.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Man HP must be a huge company if they can axe 16,000 folks: http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/05/hp-axes-up-to-16000-more-jobs/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DQG9r7 - HP axes up to 16,000 more jobs | Ars Technica
<greg-g> linkedin just says "10,000+"
<greg-g> oh wait, no, LinkedIn itself knows of "258,279 Employees on LinkedIn"
<greg-g> the first was just the category it was placed in
<cmaloney> Probably added 16,000 today.
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/05/hp-axes-up-to-16000-more-jobs/?comments=1&post=26900123
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/nHtdqo - HP axes up to 16,000 more jobs | Ars Technica
<greg-g> does bookiebot automatically add urls from this channel to a bmark.us bookiebot account?
<greg-g> that'd be neat
<greg-g> one of the tags would be the username of the person who pasted it
<rick_h_> ruh roh, new feature on the way
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> jcastro: did you ever publish those ES and LS charms?
<jcastro> yeah but they're not in the official store
<jcastro> there's one  bug left for ES
<jcastro> with a relation, but I have a dude working on it
<jcastro> logstash is fine though, so is kibana
<jrwren> for LS, do you run ES and LS on same node?
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> you can if you want though
<greg-g> heh, we were just talking about finally upgrading our Logstash ES cluster to 1.1.0 today :)
<jrwren> huh, i'm trying 1.3.3 here
<greg-g> (and today they releasesed 1.2.0)
<jrwren> oh, that is LS
<jrwren> ES is 1.0.3
<jrwren> lame
<jrwren> I need newer
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> at least you're over 1.0
<jrwren> i'm not running it AT ALL
<jrwren> cuz it doesn't work.
<jrwren> cuz... its really shitty software
<rick_h_> oh, well in that case
<jrwren> but, I want to believe.
<jrwren> well, not really I don't want to.
<jrwren> cuz, jabba
<greg-g> which is? ES or LS or all of it?
<jrwren> all of it.
<rick_h_> all good search is jabba really
<jcastro> there is no escape
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> spews b.s. zen.ping.unicast nonsense to logs
<greg-g> we moved all of our search to ES. All of it.
<jrwren> honestly, I'd rather port kibana to postgresql :p
<jcastro> jrwren, the current charm in the store works
<jcastro> it's just not the fancy ansible-based one
<jcastro> which is sexu
<jrwren> imma try ES 1.2.x and LS 1.4.x
<jrwren> i haven't looked at this since March
<jcastro> I'll have the hadoop-es plugin in a few weeks too
<jrwren> jcastro lubs jabba :p
<rick_h_> heh, companies lubba lubba jabba
<jrwren> truth
<jrwren> companies lubba lubba existing software. The sad part is that there so so much jabba software existing :)
<jrwren> jcastro: any reason those charms pull jars themselves instead of using packages.elasticsearch.org ?
<rick_h_> yep
<jrwren> yeah?
<jcastro> I don't think packages existed at the time
<jrwren> old school
<jcastro> the new one does
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> imma find this new one... someday
<cmaloney> ?>
<jcastro> jrwren, sorry, here it is http://manage.jujucharms.com/~michael.nelson/precise/elasticsearch
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/H4QZYI - Juju Charms
<jrwren> lp:~michael.nelson/charms/precise/elasticsearch/trunk  YAY!
<jcastro> that's the one with a relationship/peering bug though
<jcastro> but it will replace the charm in the store soonish
<jrwren> the charm installs ansible?
<jrwren> man, you have to be guru to know juju :p
<jcastro> ansible's doing a bunch of heavy lifting already
<jcastro> so might as well reuse it
<jrwren> makes sense
<mrgoodcat> .reload
<bookiebot> reloaded 26 plugins in 0.010538 seconds
<jcastro> same thing if it was chef or puppet
<mrgoodcat> new feature incoming
<jrwren> still, how much do you use ansible? should it be in juju or in ansible? is juju just built on ansible? it has a strange feeling to it.
<jcastro> juju executes whatever you want
<jrwren> indeed.
<jcastro> so however you cobble it together is fine with us
<jrwren> that is true of anything that exposes an exec call :p
<jcastro> for a bunch of people, if they have config management systems already
<jcastro> then they can just add juju for orchestration
<jcastro> without throwing away years of cookbooks or whatever they have
<jcastro> ansible is lightweight and powerful, our webops guys like it
<jcastro> do that for machine stuff, juju for orchestration, it's a nice combo
<cmaloney> OK, this is in the "Vim gives you superpowers" category.
<cmaloney> <C>-V and select a boxed area. Hit [c] and type what you want changed.
<cmaloney> Each record in that boxed area will be changed.
<cmaloney> Even the basics of vim can feel like magic.
<cmaloney> What's even better is I was using Alembic which already gives you superpowers
<cmaloney> so it's like superpower superpowers with a side of super
<mrgoodcat> if i had a macbook... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00686OWEU/?tag=047-20
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/yhNPT - Amazon.com: Sub Zero Macbook Decal Mac Apple skin sticker: Everything Else
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: Have your seen the skins for c720?
<mrgoodcat> no are there good ones?
<brousch_> http://www.decalgirl.com/skins/Acer-Chromebook-C720-Skins
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qHfCcQ - Acer Chromebook C720 Skins | DecalGirl
<mrgoodcat> some of those look pretty cool
<mrgoodcat> might have to try
<mrgoodcat> except i have stickers already
<cmaloney> Hah, I like that sub zero one
<cmaloney> though I'd rather have Ken from Street Fighter.
<brousch_> I bookmarked this one as a present for my son http://www.decalgirl.com/artwork/5234/Acer-Chromebook-C720-Skin-Animal-Face
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/mm2GmC - Animal Face by The Muppets | DecalGirl
<cmaloney> brousch_: That's awesome.
<cmaloney> Though wish they integrated more with the chrome ball
<mrgoodcat> i have some stickers already though
<mrgoodcat> not sure i want them covered
<cmaloney> Also wonder how many of these are "licensed" or are they just wallpaper rips.
<cmaloney> I'm seeing a lot of Disney stuff on here.
<cmaloney> They're usually pretty protective of their IP
<mrgoodcat> i like the black ones
<cmaloney> http://www.decalgirl.com/brands/Tron-Legacy
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ShjdmC - Tron | DecalGirl
<cmaloney> my smell-test just went off.
<jcastro> I would so get these
<cmaloney> I need a new laptop to junk up though. :)
<jcastro> my chromebook is becoming my favorite
<jcastro> need to get another one to put ubuntu on
<brousch_> jcastro: What Chromebook?
<jcastro> acer C720
<brousch_> 4GB?
<mrgoodcat> i wish mine was 4
<brousch_> wuss
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: it has the disney copyright symbol on it. makes me think its probably licensed
<mrgoodcat> wuss?
<mrgoodcat> mine is 2 and seems to do alright. just wish it was upgradeable
<mrgoodcat> i haven't run into any ram issues yet
<brousch_> Then you're not pushing it hard enough!
<mathomastech> So quite here today. Someone, make some noise!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-24
 * brousch_ farts
<greg-g> busy day. interviewing for a new QA Tester, responding to high prio bugs, and now doing a grant proposal review for Hewlett (iow: Hewlett sent me a proposal they got, want my opinion on it)
<brousch_> I'm testing more kivy contest apps
<greg-g> annnnd.... done with that review
<rick_h_> actually got out of the house and put work down for a bit
<greg-g> rick_h_: good deal
<greg-g> we went downtown and danced next to Petaluma Pete, aka: the guy who plays ragtime-type piano outside
<greg-g> "piano guy" as rowan calls him
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> party party
<greg-g> morning
<cmaloney> waiting for dad-in-law to be doischarged
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> and today is mostly shot
<cmaloney> blergh
<brousch_> cmaloney: gonna end it with a shot of tequila?
<cmaloney> brousch_: I'm not insane
 * cmaloney hates tequilla
<cmaloney> maybe hard cider, beer, or wine.
<greg-g> tequilla is disgusting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-25
<cmaloney> Set my twitter account to private and unfollowed everyone.
<cmaloney> identi.ca and G+ for me. :)
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2014/05/24/finally-off-of-twitter/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0oYmfj - Finally off of Twitter. | Craig Maloney
<jrwren> not sure why G+ is better than twitter.
<jrwren> what blow-up and what tragedy at UCSB?
<jrwren> hehe, I missed it.
<jrwren> but I had my computer off for 24hrs :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, you can't miss it
<cmaloney> And G+ because I personally like the threading better
<cmaloney> and reshares are a little more sane than retweets
<cmaloney> twitter was a reshare-fest.
<waf> i like twitter because you can disable retweets. i haven't found a way to disable reshares on google.
<cmaloney> I should have done that on Twitter.
<waf> i've asked a couple of knowledgeable google+ users, and it seems like it's just not possible
<cmaloney> It became an echo-chamber.
<cmaloney> waf: I think G+ makes it a little less obnoxious.
<waf> nope. not in my experience.
<cmaloney> Hm.
<waf> i get a lot of random stuff i don't care about in G+
<cmaloney> Sorry. :)
<waf> :) you share geeky stuff, so that's ok
<cmaloney> Yeah, and I curate my circles
<cmaloney> So I've plonked a few political folks in circles that post less.
<jrwren> did you curate your tweeps?
<waf> you don't really have many options for curation on twitter.
<waf> i guess it'd be pretty easy for twitter to add the concept of "g+ circles" though. they already have lists.
<jrwren> you can unfollow.
<waf> yeah, and i unfollow aggressively. but cmaloney was talking about having some circles show up more frequently than others
<jrwren> hell, I /ignore certain people in certain IRC channels I participate in.
<jrwren> i'm a G+ noob.
<waf> G+ is like facebook, but with a little more control
<waf> (ok, now i'm just trolling)
<jrwren> oh facebook! now that is something I want to be rid of :p
<rick_h_> there are days when work is so busy I miss wtf happened on twitter/etc and I wonder if it's actually adding anything
<rick_h_> I do find out about cool stuff once in a while, but not sure if it was worth it in the end
<waf> eh, it's all who you follow. i only saw one retweet about gun control. and that was it for today's news.
<waf> i also tend to unfollow people who tweet about software drama
<rick_h_> waf: yea, definitely. I do go in waves and believe a lot of what you see is your own doing
<cmaloney> Agreed. I followed a bunch of Pycon folks and that included some folks that would otherwise have infuriated me.
<cmaloney> But it got more intense with other circles that I follow on Twitter
<cmaloney> and decided to just nuke the whole thing from orbit.
<jrwren> rick_h_: i've had a lot of those days lately. I figure its worth it as entertainment.
<jrwren> gun control tweet eh? so someone shot someone, again. I don't want to know.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm sure if you type news.google.com you'll see it as the top story.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isAjqgqBS4w
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/E10c2v - Wolfenstein: The New Order | Herr Faust - Fredrik Thordendal - YouTube
<cmaloney> Favorite comment: I like both notes.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLTh4uVJduI
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3qdkbJ - Power Shift - HP Series 700 Workstation Promo - YouTube
<rick_h_> hah https://bmark.us/bookiebot/recent
<rick_h_> never know cmaloney and brousch_ would be tags
<rick_h_> so there you go greg-g, might be a cool rss feed to sub to
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/bookiebot/rss
<brousch_> geekers
<cmaloney> Hah. I'm a tag now. :)
 * cmaloney tries subscribing to it
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> zzzzz, zoo trips make for sleepy dady
<rick_h_> daddy
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> How was the trip?
<rick_h_> good, it's busy and such there
<rick_h_> but good trip, first one of the year
<cmaloney> JoDee mentioned something about 4/3 something something?
<cmaloney> Couldn't figure out what that was.
<rick_h_> yea, makes me wish I had a better camera with interchangeable lenses
<rick_h_> the zoo animals are just outside of snapshot camera range so often
<cmaloney> Ah, so it was a reference to a camera lens.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Four_Thirds_system
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/vTsD - Micro Four Thirds system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<rick_h_> well a form factor of camera
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've come to realize that none of my cameras are good for zoo pictures
<rick_h_> but I've been pondering something nicer for traveling and such
<cmaloney> I'd need some zoom lenses and $$
<rick_h_> this just got the juices flowing again
<cmaloney> Heh
<rick_h_> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx7/3
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/I0FYPD - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Review: Digital Photography Review
<cmaloney> Ooooh
<cmaloney> I wish I carried a camera more often than my cellphone
<cmaloney> have two cameras that are essentially gathering dust.
<rick_h_> yea, which is why I don't wnt to go back to DSLR
<rick_h_> too big, never take it with me
<cmaloney> They'll lilely be the last things we pack because I'll forget where they are.
<rick_h_> but I pocket my rx100 often enough when doing things with the family
<rick_h_> or in the outer pocket of my backpack
<cmaloney> Yeah
<brousch_> Good day at the Lake MI beach dog park
<greg-g> brousch_: awesome temp/sun, but way too windy at the beach here today. I mean, it was fine until Rowan got sand in his eyes a few times
<brousch_> It was 79F with a very light breeze
<brousch_> Scattered one of our dog's ashes at his favorite spot
<greg-g> oh man
<greg-g> sorry ma
<greg-g> n
<brousch_> And fresh water, none of that salt water crap
<greg-g> :) how was the water temp?
<brousch_> cold
<brousch_> I thought too cold to swim, so I just wore shorts, but it wasn't that bad
<greg-g> yeah, here it's a mix of people in wet suits and crazy teenages in the water. The rest of us just hang out in the sand :)
<cmaloney> Too warm for me inside.
<brousch_> I am afraid of sharks in the ocean
<brousch_> And I hate the way salt water feels when it dries
<greg-g> take a shower you dirty hippy
<brousch_> Still feels like I'm covered in grit and whale spooge
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-18
<cmaloney> ugh
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: JoDee says your pictures are lovely, but she said "bite me" re: the hashtags ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<dzho> jrwren: water, uh, finds a way
<cmaloney> Just got back from Frankenmuth for the anniversary weekend.
<jrwren> happy anniversary.
<cmaloney> Thank you.
<cmaloney> 12 years of JoDee putting up with me in wedlock.
<mthx> Congrats! I'm at -1 month for that same statment.
<brousch> cmaloney: It's a miracle you're both still alive. Congrats
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: no doubt.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-19
<pair0doc> anyone around and up for some small talk and possibly my poor humor?
<cmaloney> I think we are all lirking
<pair0doc> does that mean you are done lurking and ready for my poor humor cmaloney ?
<cmaloney> that means that we are all likely jist idlimng and will read your scribblimgs later
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Apparently we were spared poor humor
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_>  hah
<_stink_> yeah that's a good way to get ignored
<brousch> Dale Dougherty mentioned my name on Facebook. I'm star-struck.
<cmaloney> I mention your name on IRC all the time
<cmaloney> "  I never proselytise about free software unless you want for me to fix your
<cmaloney>   computer  "
<brousch> :P
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> I like that quote AND I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing.
<cmaloney> Me either
<cmaloney> I have a three strikes rule
<cmaloney> first time I  fix for free
<cmaloney> second time I fix for some small token (beer, etc)
<cmaloney> third time: you're getting Linux.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-20
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> _stink_: Whassup?
<_stink_> super fun spot testing a release into a big sailsfurs instance for work
<_stink_> since you know, an instance that is so big one cannot run the real tests you wrote
<_stink_> is a great idea!
<_stink_> i'm sure you are doing somethin gbetter
<cmaloney> Not particularly. That sounds like fun. ;)
<cmaloney> Actually, I'm gawking at how much Sinclair ZX-80 machines go for online: http://ur1.ca/mja3d
<_stink_> daang
<jrwren> wow.
<_stink_> i have a sinclair 1000
<cmaloney> Same here
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure I first used one because my pops got it for $20 at a garage sale
<_stink_> this one is rarer i think?
<jrwren> in '89 or so
<cmaloney> The ZX80 preveeded it
<_stink_> right
<cmaloney> And the Timex Sinclair 1000 is pretty common over here.
<cmaloney> I'm getting a ZX81 kit in the mail from a Craigslist ad I found in San Francisco
<cmaloney> Managed to get lucky to find someone who wasn't opposed to shipping
<cmaloney> sadly the guy who owned it passed away and the Window enlisted a close friend to sell it online
<cmaloney> http://ur1.ca/mjacv
<cmaloney> Apparnetly someone sold the entire Jupiter Ace brand
<cmaloney> Or rather they tried
<_stink_> yeah i don't see a winner on there
<cmaloney> http://www.sinclairzxworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1355
<cmaloney> Thread I'm looking at
<cmaloney> I actually had a ZX80 in my hands but couldn't convince the person to part with it.
<cmaloney> I don't think it was his unfortunately.
<_stink_> and you judged that he runs faster than you?
<cmaloney> he's a friend so I wasn't about to try it
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> having friends.
<cmaloney> Bad business decisions, having friends and all
<_stink_> one day you'll learn
<cmaloney> Yeah, no doubt.
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heads up, don't think I'm going to make CHC
<cmaloney> rick_h_: considering I thought this week was early edition I thought you were already on the rlad. ;)
 * cmaloney os all sorts of goofed
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> everything OK?
<rick_h_> yea, just late work meeting
<rick_h_> we'll see if it's all ok after that heh
<cmaloney> ah, here's hoping it doesn't spiral
<cmaloney> <3 my users. "Here's the error I'm getting" (attached is "Print screen.docx")
<_stink_> yes i love those
<_stink_> what's really fun is if someone makes one of those in word on windows, and then you open the doc in libreoffice, often you can see the entire screen in the screenshot
<_stink_> because the data is there but word enforces a boundary
<_stink_> that libreoffice does not
<cmaloney> Haven't seen those yet.
<_stink_> so they think they are sending just a window screenshot... but all their other depraved stuff is visible
<cmaloney> The one that I love is when they send over their email inbox numbers. I just want to send them "Inbox Zero"
<cmaloney> Nothing makes me cry more than knowing people wade through shit in order to get stuff done.
<jrwren> too cool! http://wrengineering.com
<cmaloney> Relations?
<jrwren> yes
<cmaloney> Ah, very cool
<cscheib> jrwren: god I hate sites that are designed like that, where the layout changes as you scroll
<jrwren> cscheib: so many folks have such a strong opinion about this. I don't get it.
<cscheib> feels clunky and slow, even on fast systems, IMO.  And it just feels wrong
<jrwren> cscheib: i've never had the clunkly slow experience with this.
<jrwren> cscheib: you using ie6 or something?
<cscheib> chrome, safari
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-21
<jrwren> cmaloney: you might like my library: https://twitter.com/aadl_tools/status/601122773667217409
<derekv2> cmaloney: http://tiffzhang.com/startup/index.html?s=13395030051
<cmaloney> jrwren: So jealous. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: i'll bet if I try to check it out, I'll get it sometime in 2017 :p
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's likely
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> hi
<cmaloney> TIL: There's a stack called "MEAN"
<cmaloney> http://mean.io
 * cmaloney thinks about creating a stack using Cassandra, React.js, UWSGI, Ember, and Lua
<cmaloney> Then we can have CRUEL Web development
<jrwren> uwsgi has a lua plugin? well of course it does :)
<jrwren> lua having a cassandra driver is the more surprising thing, I guess.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-22
<cmaloney> I wasm making a joke but it woldn't surprise me.
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far for everyone?
<brousch> Well gratipay got annoying
<brousch> https://medium.com/gratipay-blog/gratipay-2-0-2453d3c53077
<cmaloney> What's gratipay? Is that the gittip rplacement?
<brousch> gittip became graitpay, now gratipay is changing
<brousch> rick will have to make a bookie team so I can reroute my $0.25/mo to it
<brousch> what, wait, he's not online?!
<cmaloney> Yeah, he's not here at the moment
<cmaloney> Wow, throw money in something and it all goes pear-shaped
<cmaloney> I have no idea what's going on with Gratipay
<cmaloney> Could be I'm distracted with other things but that summary really doesn't clear much up for me.
<brousch> It sounds like there were issues with their payment processor dying, and separate (legal?) issues with payments to individuals
<brousch> So now it's going all Teams
<cmaloney> yeah, and they're removing bitcoin as well
<brousch> I wonder if terrorists were being funded through it
<cmaloney> Well, it's likely the money-folks in govt getting persnickity about money flowing to individuals
<cmaloney> gain, things get weird when you involve money
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-23
<jrwren> whoa, rick_h wasn't lying. he is not here.
<cmaloney> yeah, he's awol
<cmaloney> Latest O'Reilly Programming newsletter subject: "Java at 20, Kill the Cruft, Blog Post Driven Development + more"
<cmaloney> Thought for sure it read: "Java at 20 - Kill the Cruft..."
<greg-g> none of that newsletter subject is good
<cmaloney> Now now, I'm sure Blog-Post Driven Development is just fine
<cmaloney> (too bad rick_h isn't here, because I was going to make a reference to one of my co-workers.)
<jrwren> blog post driven development is how I survived 2005-2009
<greg-g> now its stackexchange
<jrwren> not so much.
<cmaloney> http://blog.estimote.com/post/119525082855/user-stories-on-steroids-how-estimote-uses-blog?
<greg-g> I'm weirded out by non-remote teams now
<greg-g> (seeing things like using physical kanban boards with post its)
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> It seems so old-fashioned.
<jrwren> i LOVE physical kanban boards.
<jrwren> sooo much more efficient than digital.
<cmaloney> Really?
<jrwren> yes.
<greg-g> yeah, if you're all there physically, I agree
<jrwren> yes, it simply does not work if any team member is remote.
<emodzhi> kanbancam
<cmaloney> woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-24
<cmaloney> OMC is on http://metalinjectionfm
<cmaloney> correction: OMC is on http://metalinjection.fm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-23
<_stink_> yep.
<cmaloney> morning
<Zimdale> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h_> party, time to dig out from the sprint weeks
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> smarter me already woke up and got into work
<cmaloney> unfortunately I'm stuck with dumber me
<jrwren> meh meh meh morning
<cmaloney> Good mehning.
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> I'm not sure why but it gives me perverse pleasure making an ubuntu user on a Centos container.
<greg-g> rick_h_: exciting times ahead. I was going to recommend you apply for the WMF CTO position, but that sounds like the wrong direction for now?
<greg-g> in some ways, maybe it's easier than a directorship, though?
<greg-g> (you'd only have about 6 direct reports, including me!) ;)
<cmaloney> telecommute?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Also, how is Terran doing?
<cmaloney> (unrelated: LXC Centos Containers are a godsend)
<greg-g> cmaloney: yep, remote friendly, our current VP of Product lives in NH
<cmaloney> neat
<greg-g> he's good, carrie, however, ef'd up her back holding him for 3 days straight at the hospital since "cosleeping is dangerous" (nevermind I just got out of a bed with the 4 of us in it...)
<cmaloney> Ouch
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I'm aiming for more a 50hr work week with a smaller team than a big overview thing and bigger
<rick_h_> greg-g: ty though, appreciate it
<mrgoodcat> anybody else having trouble logging into developer.amazon.com right now?
<gamerchick02> i'm not trying but smile is working...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-24
<cmaloney> https://blog.bandcamp.com/2016/05/19/bandcamp-downloads-streaming-and-the-inescapably-bright-future/
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/05/23/open-metalcast-episode-130-continuing-voyages/
<cmaloney> If you can't find something in this episode to like then you're probably incapable of love.
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> MORNING!
<rick_h_> someone's chipper
<cmaloney> Someone's in AOL mode
<cmaloney> Must be the AOL stock is finally turning around on news of Verizon buying them.
<jrwren> O_O VZ is buying AOL!?!?   wtfff?!!?
<jrwren> first bayer monstanto, now this!?!?
 * jrwren head exploes
<cmaloney> to be fair, Verizon came first.
<cmaloney> But apparetnly Bayer is working to consolidate the evil
<jrwren> i'm wondering how being DE owned might change MON
<cmaloney> If it makes their hearts grow ten times larger that would be a good thing
<cmaloney> assuming their hearts aren't already 0.
<rick_h_> 10*0 = ?
<cmaloney> 10 * 0 = 0
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> hah!
<cmaloney> Doesn't Bayer do patent shakedowns as well?
<cmaloney> it's hard to keep track of the evil in the world
 * cmaloney checks to see if there's an asshole watch site out there.
<mrgoodcat> yea there is: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/election-2016.html
<cmaloney> Apparently someone registered "assholewatch.com" which points to the Apple Watch.
<cmaloney> That is a missed opportunity
<Scary_Guy> why, what do you think it should point to?
<Scary_Guy> apple is pretty evil
<Scary_Guy> them fighting for encryption is the best thing they've done in a loooong time
<jrwren> how is apple evil?
<jrwren> of the big 5 tech companies, apple seems to be the less evil of the 5.
<jrwren> least evil of the 5, i mean.
<rick_h_> hmm, ratings in terms of number of devil's horns you earn
<rick_h_> 2 evil horns, 4 evil horns...
<Scary_Guy> jrwren, you sound like a voter "well this candidate isn't as evil as the others"
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> no no.
<jrwren> i'd just like to learn about specifics.
<jrwren> i hear people say "apple are evil" all the time, but I rarely hear specifics.
<Scary_Guy> well, I prefer android since I can take google's bloat off it
<jrwren> 'cept maybe when they were under heat for foxconn workers pressures.
<Scary_Guy> apple locks you into it and actively tries to disable your attempts to jailbreak it
<jrwren> that is evil?
<jrwren> we apparently have different definitions of evil.
<Scary_Guy> I buy the device, I should be able to do what I want with the device
<jrwren> lock in may not be a feature you want, but I don't consider it evil.
<jrwren> its fine if its not the product you want.
<Scary_Guy> closed source is evil too, no peer review
<jrwren> lol!
<jrwren> ya know what!  I like your values more than my own.
<jrwren> Its been so long since i've heard the "closed source is evil" that i forgot it was a thing.
<Scary_Guy> maybe it's better now that Tim is running things but when Steve was you were literally trusting a sociopath
<jrwren> so.. you run android without google play store?
<jrwren> what do you use for cloud services? anything? owncloud? other?
<Scary_Guy> no play anything, no maps, none of it
<Scary_Guy> f-droid.org
<Scary_Guy> all FOSS apps
<jrwren> awesome.
<Scary_Guy> the only people who don't want me rooting my phone and throwing custom ROMs on it are the carriers, google's android literally doesn't care and encourages it
<Scary_Guy> I wish we had more support and activity from things like #replicant though
<jrwren> there are so many old apple devices out there, its a shame there isn't an alt OS to put on an old iphone4 or an old ipad1
<Scary_Guy> have you heard of pineapple?
<Scary_Guy> I think that's the name
<Scary_Guy> http://lifehacker.com/5693309/how-to-install-android-on-an-iphone-in-six-easy-steps
<Scary_Guy> I've done that and it ran like dogshit but it ran!
<Scary_Guy> got super hot too
<Scary_Guy> but yeah, that's the other thing, if you have a dead phone it's basically only good for a music player
<jrwren> its not maintained is it?
<jrwren> what do you mean dead phone & music player?
<Scary_Guy> not anymore
<jrwren> if it has wifi it can run any app, right?
<Scary_Guy> I guess, seems kind of restrictive though
<Scary_Guy> also that's the other thing, android only restricts what apps you can install until you uncheck a box
<jrwren> very true.
<Scary_Guy> want to install custom apps in iOS?  you need to jailbreak it
<jrwren> oh, that isn't true anymore.
<Scary_Guy> which voids the warrenty
<jrwren> you can sideload apps now.
<Scary_Guy> wait they changed it?
<Scary_Guy> okay that's cool
<jrwren> they added it in ios9
<cmaloney> jrwren: I was thinking it would be better served as a clearinghouse of information related to bad company behavior
<cmaloney> re: Apple being evil: Their stance on suing everyone and everything over patents is kind of terrible
<Scary_Guy> that too
<cmaloney> they're the whole reason for the look-and-feel lawsuit
<cmaloney> They're definite innovators though, so I can understand their position
<cmaloney> but I have a hard time with using the courts to set bad precedents
<jrwren> sure, but not more evil than the other 4 in that regard.
<jrwren> 'cept maybe FB. has FB ever sued over patents?
<cmaloney> not sure
<Scary_Guy> give it time
<Scary_Guy> they own Oculus
<jrwren> yup.
<cmaloney> FB is evil for privacy and blatant emotional manipulation
<jrwren> exactly!
<jrwren> pretty much like google... at least on privacy.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Not sure if you can speak to this, but I'm wondering how accurate this is:
<cmaloney> https://medium.com/@ailon/how-one-announcement-destroyed-the-net-ecosystem-on-windows-19fb2ad1aa39#.1gpmnd4iw
<jrwren> i only barely follow .net these days.
<cmaloney> That's what I figured
<jrwren> zomg cmaloney YES!
<jrwren> that is exactly why I gave up on .NET and MSFT.
<jrwren> but not for the reasons listed here.
<jrwren> although these are all great points, and probably better than my reasons.
<cmaloney> OK, I wasn't sure. It sseems like the transision to W8 / W10 from a developer perspective is muddy at best
<cmaloney> from W7
<jrwren> the winrt thing was/IS fucking terrible.
<jrwren> when I saw them abandon the win32 api and say, "use this winrt shit" it made zero sense.
<jrwren> it still makes zero sense.
<jrwren> its a shit api
<jrwren> the people who approved it should be fired.
<Scary_Guy> speaking of evil companies
<cmaloney> It felt like they were trying to make a JVM-ish doo-dad into the main interface
<cmaloney> which sort of made sense
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: Sad thing is MSFT is busily neutering themselves
<jrwren> yup, speaking of evil companies.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM reminds me of this too
<jrwren> great ignite talk!
<Scary_Guy> ikr?
<cmaloney> Woo! New Pebble Kickstarter
<jrwren> i just had full vi rage.
<jrwren> I didn't know how to use vi, because I am accustomed to vim.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: new toy?
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, like getting stuck in bash
<rick_h_> "wtf!!! this doesn't work right!"
<jrwren> that happened to me last week. my brain couldn't switch to bash mode, i kept typing vim nav commands and it was easier to just set -o vi
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Think I'm going to pass on this one
<cmaloney> Built-in HR is not a feature I need ATM
<rick_h_> cmaloney: HR?
<cmaloney> Hert Rate monitor
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://twitter.com/MattMEgan5/status/735153349650190337
<cmaloney> "Breaking: Monsanto rejects Bayerâs $62 billion takeover bid, calling it âincomplete & financially inadequate.' But $MON open to deal talks"
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> Something tells me they're looking for Facebook numbers.
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/jniccolai
<cmaloney> We're fucked
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/jniccolai/status/735169829183705088
<cmaloney> start from here
<cmaloney> Apparently the jury for the Google / Oracle trial is trying to look at the source for Java
<cmaloney> and having a hell of a time because of the number of folders in there.
<_stink_> gahahaha
<_stink_> this is awesome
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/sarahjeong as well
<cmaloney> she's been awesome live-tweeting this whole trial
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-25
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> power just flicked off and on
<_stink_> all those AC units getting their first run, i guess
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> Coffeeeee
<cmaloney> I love how my morning script for work is called "morning"
<cmaloney> and the one for closing up shop: "goodnight"
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i have a Makefile in my homedir that does various things
<mrgoodcat> one of them is "make coffee"
<mrgoodcat> which is connected to a wemo switch on my kettle
<jrwren> for real?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> why not?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> its kinda bastardizing the point of makefiles but w/e
<mrgoodcat> i wanted to tell my terminal to make coffee
<jrwren> maybe not. is there a dependency? ;]
<jrwren> if you run make coffee twice, does it turn it on then off? If yes, I agree with you. bastardized point of make files?
<mrgoodcat> no it just turns it on
<cmaloney> jrwren: wrenfam isn't resolving.
<cmaloney> or at least it wasn't when my rss reader went to it
<cmaloney> appears to be working now
<jrwren> cmaloney: thanks for the notice.
<cmaloney> np
<jrwren> nerds: CDPATH, do you use it or not?
<mrgoodcat> not me
<mrgoodcat> zsh does fuzzy matching so /e/apa/siava[tab] takes me to /etc/apache/sites-available
<mrgoodcat> apache2
<mrgoodcat> but you get the point
<_stink_> jrwren: i don't
<cmaloney> I'm not sure what it is
<cmaloney> https://www.oreilly.com/learning/why-node-js-for-shell-scripting
<rick_h_> woot! it's here
<rick_h_> https://goo.gl/photos/rrgi4FXgGY5R9oZb8
<jrwren> awesome!
<cmaloney> That is a big trailer.
<rick_h_> load it up and to the woods!
<widox> rick_h_: spiffy. upgraded the old one this season?
<rick_h_> widox: yea
<rick_h_> bunk beds for the boy and insulation for kate season camping
<rick_h_> and more cross country worthy, big tires/etc
<mrgoodcat> your house looks so much like my parents old house its crazy
<mrgoodcat> yard, driveway, curb, house, electrical box all almost exact
<mrgoodcat> it can't be though since that house was knocked down
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> ok, guess that's a good thing
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> good lookin trailer though
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-26
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> morning!
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> not too bad
 * rick_h_ is in the woods
<rick_h_> albiet in the woods backed up to a road
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That didn't take long. :)
<rick_h_> no, got in last night
<rick_h_> got one of the last 2 spots in the campgroudnm
<rick_h_> holiday weekend rush to get a spot
<cmaloney> Didn't even give it a proper pre-flight check. ;)
<rick_h_> only way to test it is to use it!
<rick_h_> though do need to head back to the house for a few things that I missed while loading yesterday
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Though if you're only "up the street" then it's not too big of a deal
<rick_h_> yea, it's a 15min drive down dixie hwy
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's "towing distance"
<rick_h_> towing distance is anywhere! :P
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> kind of bummed we're not going as many miles this year as last year
 * rick_h_ needs to find some more states to visit
<cmaloney> Ask Congress about Puerto Rico
<cmaloney> and the Virgin Islands.
<cmaloney> I think we're overdue for some new states
<cmaloney> Also: do they do camping in Europe? :)
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4l24hn/ <- MySQL is a better NoSQL
<jrwren> rick_h_: you working from that woods?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i just threw up in my mouth a little.
<jrwren> oh.... but compared to mongodb, I'll agree!
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> lol "MongoDB: so bad that it makes MySQL look good in comparison."
<cmaloney> Basically they take away a lot of the things that MySQL does poorly (transactions, joins) and suddenly it's performant
<jrwren> that is well known for ANY RDBMS.
<jrwren> amazon told us that 15yrs ago.
<cmaloney> Right but it's humorous to see MongoDB get the whipping it deserves
<cmaloney> MongoDB is terrible. Period.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yep
 * rick_h_ wants to stand up for the product his teams use...and can't
<wolfger> Mongo vs Access: go!
<jrwren> I prefer Access.
<rick_h_> mongodb brought something to the table when it had a form of HA before others did
<rick_h_> but ... now not so applicaable
<jrwren> rick_h_: that is a fair point.
<jrwren> rick_h_: and honestly, I don't think I'd hate mongo nearly as much if we weren't using gridfs.
<rick_h_> it's why Juju used it, they'd get HA for "free"
<jrwren> hahaha, NEVER believe you get something "free" ;]
<rick_h_> jrwren: true enough
<rick_h_> (on the gridfs front)
<jrwren> i definitely succomb to teh temptation often enough.
<jrwren> re: mysql scaling: slashdot showed us this in 1998 when they had insanely high page views for DB page rendering at the time.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yep. Slashdot was a testament to the 1990's LAMP stack
<cmaloney> P being Perl
<greg-g> and wikipedia is the other P LAMP stack testament :)
<wolfger> P LAMP?
<jrwren> choose your P.  we have perl and php covered. Someone give python and pike examples :]
<cmaloney> There's alleged pr0n sites running Turbogears. ;)
<cmaloney> Though not sure what their database is.
<jrwren> reddit is django, but I don't know if they use mysql or other.
<cmaloney> Well, iirc Reddit started off in LISP so it's anyone's guess what they use for a backend
<jrwren> postgresql
<jrwren> http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/8/26/reddit-lessons-learned-from-mistakes-made-scaling-to-1-billi.html
<jrwren> started off in lisp because paul graham has strong opinions :p
<cmaloney> Honestly PostgreSQL is the answer to a lot of life's questions
<jrwren> truth.
<cmaloney> That's HN
<jrwren> i'll be quoting you on that.
<cmaloney> Reddit was not a Paul Grahm joint iirc
<jrwren> cmaloney: read the url I just pasted and learn otherwise :p
<cmaloney> No! You can't make me learn.
<cmaloney> AAIIIUUUGGGHHH!
<cmaloney> I'M ENLIGHTENED AND IT HURTS!
<wolfger> heh
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Ohanian
<wolfger> Enlightenment was always one of my favorite desktops
<jrwren> Enlightenment turned into a still interesting C gui toolkit.
<cmaloney> Yeah, Enlightenment was when folks were still interested in doing neat things with X
<cmaloney> I still think X is a great system, but I understand it's getting way long in the tooth
<cmaloney> I'm just glad it's lasted as long as it has
<jrwren> X has the big problem: no security.
<cmaloney> worse, terrible security
<cmaloney> There's a minimal effort to lock it down and it's laugably naive.
<jrwren> mir and wayland will get us there.
<cmaloney> I hope so
<cmaloney> my fear is they'll muddy the waters
<jrwren> they'll do that too.
<cmaloney> Apparently the jury came to a verdict on Oracle vs. Google.
<cmaloney> I think there's only one correct verdict in this case:
<cmaloney> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> They found for Google
<cmaloney> Fucking Hallelujah
<brousch> So we're not all out of jobs?
<cmaloney> Thankfully
<cmaloney> And I'm only slightly ashamed that I find the jury wise with this decision. Had they found for Oracle I would consider them dense.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-27
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> hmm, me thinks this meeting me came in on a day off for isn't happening
<cmaloney> That sentence needs work. :)
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> the idea underlying that sentence needs work :p
<cmaloney> moar work
<jrwren> moar work on the sentence. less work on work ;]
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b39dRyo0U5k
<jrwren> cmaloney: WOW
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKmyQGZlkg
<jrwren> zomg that speech synth!
<jrwren> remember Space Taxi?
<cmaloney> I didn't have a C64
<jrwren> nor I. I saw it at my cousins house.
<cmaloney> yeah, the C64 had more speech synthesis-type things
<wolfger> rick_h_: going in on your day off for a meeting.... *that* is your problem. Not the lack of the meeting.
<brousch> Wow. Want a job in Grand Rapids? Learn Rails.
<cmaloney> Just one more reason not to learn Rails. ;)
<shakes808> cmaloney: +1
<wolfger> ^
<brousch> :P
<jrwren> WAT? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/death-free-software-how-google-killed-gpl-annette-hurst
<greg-g> not clicking
<jrwren> yeah, don't do it.
<jrwren> i am sorry I pasted it.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> apology accepted
<jrwren> please accept my apology #ubuntu-us-mi
<jrwren> thanks greg-g
<gamerchick02> i clicked.
<cmaloney> jrwren: yeah, I saw that earlier
<cmaloney> I'm sure she believes it
<cmaloney> but that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what her case was about
<jrwren> her case? is she the oracle lawyer?
<cmaloney> Believe so
<jrwren> oh! wow.
<cmaloney> Because implementation is the same as stealing code
<gamerchick02> geez
<greg-g> I have lots of thoughts on this, but I'm working half-time and need to focus on real work :) :)
<gamerchick02> #thebugcast is broadcasting if anyone wants some music right now
<gamerchick02> greg-g maybe a blog post is in order?
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: we are more important than work. focus on us.
<cmaloney> That's the spirit! More work! :)
<greg-g> heh, that's a yak shaving thing, my blog has been down for over a year :)
<greg-g> down due to colo server failure and me not caring enough to setup anything new
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, apparently do post to Facebook now
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Damn non-hippie.
<greg-g> I got tech-lazy :(
<cmaloney> heh
 * greg-g still IRC's from irssi on a DigitalOcean vm
<cmaloney> yeah, well, say 12 "Whole Foods is of the Devil" to repent.
<greg-g> heh
<jrwren> nothing wrong with taht.
<gamerchick02> i'm a huge nerd. i'm casting the bugcast to my chromecast and chatting on the laptop
<gamerchick02> LOL
<jrwren> nothing wrong with that.
<cmaloney> ++
<gamerchick02> yak shaving?
<gamerchick02> i mean, if you have a lot of feelings about something, a blog post is a good idea
<greg-g> gamerchick02: I don't have a blog, so I need to yak shave that first :)
<gamerchick02> oh.
<gamerchick02> get a wordpress or a medium or a tumblr
<gamerchick02> easy peasy
<greg-g> no, hell no, fuck nah
<greg-g> ;)
 * greg-g is picky
<gamerchick02> well then. DON'T do it the easy way.
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> ghost?
<cmaloney> pelican
<gamerchick02> pelican?
<gamerchick02> what's that? blogging software?
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> based on Python
<cmaloney> http://blog.getpelican.com/
<jrwren> do it the easy way. jeckel and github.io :p
<cmaloney> Mine is static. ;)
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/
<jrwren> static rules.
<jrwren> tehn again... free writing at medium.com ;]
<jrwren> or... bluehost.com, $2.95/mo and instal wordpress
<cmaloney> I have a fundamental problem with Medium
<jrwren> me too, but still, its there.
<jrwren> make a tumblr. make a blogspot. make a wordpress.com. write it on google+. ;]
<gamerchick02> so you want more than just a blog you want a project
<gamerchick02> tumblr is nice. it's more than just a blog though. it's a community... connect to cool people and you'll have a good experience. you need new-xkit to make the site tolerable though
<jrwren> make a pinterest. make a stumbleupon ;]
<jrwren> how many of these stupid services are tehre?
<cmaloney> make a fucking mess
<jrwren> write to your livejournal ;]
<gamerchick02> hah i had a livejournal. still do but i don't use it
<jrwren> i just noticed our topic has dead urls in it.
<jrwren> ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu no longer exists.
<jrwren> i just moved my inet from 100mbit to gbit, shall see if it is fsater.
<gamerchick02> oh no
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-28
<jrwren> oh yes!
<gamerchick02> i mean oh no to the dead links
<cmaloney> oh yeeessssss
<gamerchick02> sorry for my reconnects. i'm trying to set up irc on the chromebook
<GC02-Chromebook> there we go i'm registered on the chromebook! yay!!!
<GC02-Chromebook> itsa me, gamerchick02
<cmaloney> woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-29
<cmaloney> BTW: Meeting tonight if anyone is interested. :)
<Scary_Guy> I'm a bit busy already but, meeting?
<cmaloney> There's a monthly meeting coming up
<cmaloney> Apparently I am under the mistaken impression that today is the first Sunday of the month. :)
<cmaloney> mea culpa
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-mi/ical
<gamerchick02> today is the last sunday of the month...
<gamerchick02> but anyway, how's the long weekend treating everyone?
<Scary_Guy> Noir Leather fashion show at Northern Lights tonight, and I'm DJ'ing tomorrow at the same venue for a different event.
<Scary_Guy> I'm enjoying it
<cmaloney> nice
<gamerchick02> you're busy! we went to the Highland Festival and got sunburnt and watched dudes throw things.
<Scary_Guy> also is a good time
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-22
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> how was everyone's weekend?
<rick_h> wet yesterday, but good day mountain biking and then the family wedding fun
<shakes808> where do you go?
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Did yard work
<rick_h> shakes808: we camped out at addison oaks campground
<cmaloney> and grocery shopping
<rick_h> shakes808: there's a nice trail there, was fun. hadn't done it since last year and found it much easier and more fun this year
<notlikethesoup> morning
<shakes808> rick_h: heard addison was nice.  a co-worker just went here to camp https://www.recreation.gov/camping/ocracoke-campground/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=NRSO&parkId=70986
<rick_h> shakes808: in NC? nice
<notlikethesoup> shakes808: went to a wedding, got drunk, had a good ol' time
<notlikethesoup> :D
<shakes808> yeah, need to get there from a ferry or palne
<shakes808> plane
<shakes808> cmaloney: sounds like my weekend
<shakes808> notlikethesoup: you and rick_h go to the same wedding?! haha
<notlikethesoup> haha no
<notlikethesoup> not that i am aware of
<notlikethesoup> are you guys primarily over on the east side?
<rick_h> yea, well east-ish
<rick_h> though we've got some west-siders
<rick_h> brousch__: and company
<notlikethesoup> and now me as well
<rick_h> well there you go :)
<brousch__> notlikethesoup: I'm in Grand Rapids
<notlikethesoup> kalamazoo, here
<cmaloney> This weekend I saw someone with an Oracle volunteers shirt on
<cmaloney> I had my linode shirt on
<cmaloney> no point, just observation
<rick_h> ok, I've tried to stay out of this and not care...but now I can't help it. wtf is this? https://twitter.com/CypherSignal/status/866683506402963456
<notlikethesoup> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/05/22/donald-trump-and-the-mysterious-glowing-orb/
<notlikethesoup> that explains it a bit
<notlikethesoup> amidst some playful jokes about it
<notlikethesoup> which i find hilarious
<rick_h> crazy
<greg-g> anyone here use gcal via Firefox? Myself along with other WMF employees (we use gapps) havne't been able to edit/create events in gcal with Fx :(
<cmaloney> Fx or Thunderbird?
 * cmaloney doesn't use Fx, so hearing that it doesn't work is disconcerting
<cmaloney> also: check your plugins
<cmaloney> My old boss got himself to the point where GOogle acted weird because of the privacy stripping stuff he was using
<cmaloney> and another door closes because of the lack of JavaScript experience
<cmaloney> *sigh*
<greg-g> cmaloney: Fx
<greg-g> and yeah, that's next. the other people who have confirmed it are also privacy aware (like most at WMF ;) )
<cmaloney> a-yep
<cmaloney> Google really hates it when you munge the browser string
<cmaloney> That was one issue he ran into
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-23
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> cmaloney: are you still looking for a job?
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> shakes808: Still looking
<cmaloney> Actually, hoping to get a grant from a wealthy donor but that's another story.
<shakes808> ... interesting
<cmaloney> Eh, shit happens
<shakes808> there is a potential web site design gig.   interested?  wouldn't be full time, just website and done i believe
<cmaloney> I don't have the front-end chops for a design gig
<shakes808> alright :( tried
<shakes808> haha
<cmaloney> no worries.
<shakes808> it is to much for me to take on right now.
<shakes808> know anyone that would be interested?
<cmaloney> Not offhand I'm afraid
<_stink_> shakes808: just design?
<shakes808> full stack
<shakes808> Front / Back / DB
<shakes808> they want to revamp what they have and add functionality to it
<shakes808> _stink_: ^^
<_stink_> what's the current stack?
<shakes808> godaddy and their cms
<_stink_> ok.  just trying to determine if i know anyone who might be interested.  seems unlikely :)
<shakes808> _stink_: thank you
<cmaloney> shakes808: How did you get involved with this?
<shakes808> my friend's girlfriend started working for them.
<shakes808> and asked if they knew anyone.
<shakes808> so she asked me and I went by to talk to them to see what they wanted
<shakes808> I was going to try to set them up with wix or something easy for them to manage but they need logins and tracking for their stuffs.  more than that and I can do right now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-24
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> Morning
<brousch__> yes
<cmaloney> Good
<notlikethesoup> morning
<rick_h> cmaloney: lol erica just texted me "OMG morpace called me, about participating in research for my pacifica hybrid"
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> Tell them to piss off. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: heh, she wants to do it
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> cmaloney: but so funny
<cmaloney> Yeah, totally
<cmaloney> interesting that they announced that it was Morpace.
<rick_h> yea
<shakes808> cmaloney: with you on that.
<cmaloney> Honestly I think surveys are a pretty silly way of getting feedback
<cmaloney> everyone games them
<cmaloney> and you can say "they're scientific" all you want; you're not getting true opinions if the expectations are set at "we want you so satisfied you put down 5s"
<cmaloney> That and 25 questions about my experience (10 of which are tangentially related) is numbing
<cmaloney> or in the case of car surveys, 200 questions
<cmaloney> there are better ways to get feedback from folks
<cmaloney> one idea I had was to hire a bunch of extroverted, talkative grandparents
<cmaloney> and have people talk to them
<cmaloney> you can learn more from conversation than from a questionaire
<cmaloney> the other was the two-question survey
<cmaloney> "Were you satisfied" [Y/N] "Why not?"
<cmaloney> text field with machine learning
<_stink_> 1. N; 2. <blank> submit
<cmaloney> That's fine too
<cmaloney> _stink_: If not and it's blank then there's nothing to discuss
<cmaloney> most of the time if it's N then people will write you a goddamn novel
<cmaloney> but the underlying issues I noticed could have all bee solved on the front enf
<cmaloney> end
<cmaloney> The reason people were pissed off was because they felt like they weren't treated fairly
<cmaloney> or they were brushed off
<cmaloney> they weren't handled as important
<cmaloney> true: some folks are assholes
<cmaloney> but I'm sure one of the ways that $customer could have handled things better was by having a loaner program
<cmaloney> but that costs money, and doing damage control at the back-end makes more money
<cmaloney> and that's why $customer is shrinking and doing the CompUSA "throw anything into the store and see what sticks"
<cmaloney> but hey, what do I know? I'm not a business consultant; I'm just s dirty FLOSS hippie. ;)
<cmaloney> You don't need machine learning and big data to solve these problems. You just need to listen to people and empower employees to act in the moment
<cmaloney> but there's no money to be made in solving the problem and plenty to be made in reporting on it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-25
<dzho> rick_h: a pacifica hybrid?!
<dzho> that's a rare beast from what I can gather
<rick_h> dzho: yea, wife had to wait a few months for it
<rick_h> was delayed a bit
<dzho> so, not to sound like I'm starting a survey, but how is that working out?
<rick_h> was supposed to be in at the start of march, ended up end of april
 * dzho has a TDI we're in the process of getting rid of
<rick_h> dzho: really nice. she loves it. Big vehicle that drives like a small one.
<dzho> I got a Honda Fit to tide me over.
<rick_h> dzho: and the plugin bit works well. charge it each night, 2 hrs by the book
<dzho> but I'd once said that if they made a hybrid minivan I'd get one (more or less)
<rick_h> dzho: and getting 30ish miles a day on that end
<rick_h> dzho: yea, talk about the most practical of practical vehicles
<dzho> our commutes are <20 miles round trip
<rick_h> dzho: and with us having the little one we're not likely to miss folding down the middle seats any time
<dzho> heh
<dzho> ours is a teenager soon
<rick_h> dzho: yea, and it's peppy-enough and such
<dzho> :( :)
<rick_h> hah
<dzho> I feel like we're a half-generation out of step
<rick_h> basically think it's averaging out around 40mpg, filled the tank up for the second time (first one taking it home) after 3.5ish weeks
<dzho> we needed full day kindergarten
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> yea, we did that
<dzho> the two best school districts in our area have just started talking about full day K
<rick_h> ah, yea that would have been nuts to only have 1/2 days
<rick_h> when he's got 1/2 days of school (this friday) it's batty
<dzho> we had to switch daycare because buses would only deliver to daycare in district
<dzho> and we were going to a more diverse place over the district line
<dzho> otherwise it would have been a double commute, yeah.
<dzho> wow 40mpg in a *minivan* that's nuts
<dzho> the Fit is moderately thrifty but it has a dinky fuel tank too
<rick_h> yea, the only "bummer" is that they crapped out the nice things on there
<dzho> after the diesel I'm feeling like "hey what do you mean I'm already at half a tank"?
<rick_h> so the top of the line hybrid doesn't get some of the things on the top of the line non-hybrid, can't even pay for them
<dzho> huh
 * dzho is more bare bones anyway
<rick_h> like power side mirrors, sunroof
<dzho> power mirrors are nice
<dzho> sunroof meh, we've had them and not
<rick_h> well, we park in the garage so I get cranky every time I have to get out to push in the passenger side mirror
<dzho> d'oh
<rick_h> per user memory seating is the other thing I wanted
<dzho> man, I tell you, the things they make "options" on some cars drive me nuts.
<rick_h> my truck has it and nice so that it's one button to switch drivers
<rick_h> makes it a LOT easier to share a vehicle
<dzho> I'd just rather get mechanical seats, not electric adjust.
<rick_h> and part of the van is I drive my truck around less (well rules of getting the van)
<dzho> we have electric adjust on our other vehicle but no memory.
<dzho> it is so freaking slow.
<rick_h> right, but with 8 way electric adjust if you are different you have to flip 500 things to get right
<rick_h> so I just promise to only move it forward/backward and leave the rest and oh well
<dzho> it's not a moon shot
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> it's enough to get me into cranky old man mode
<dzho> haha
<rick_h> "take my money dammit!"
<rick_h> but the after the delays got over with my wife's forgiven them and loves it
<dzho> what annoys me is when they made the "you left your key in" or the "you left your lights on" warning beeps optional
<dzho> I'm like, really? You want someone to pay extra for *that*?
<rick_h> hah
<dzho> real innovative, there.
<dzho> well, I'm glad it's working out for you, I hope others follow suit.
<dzho> short haul high torque things like that just seem like such a natural.
<rick_h> yea, my wife laughs she gets to be hybrid snooty now, makes up for her diesel snooty earlier :)
<rick_h> yea, just have to see if the tech keeps up over time at all
<dzho> hypermiling the minivan
<rick_h> how the batteries will hold up in the winter, but looks like it's something like $2-3 of electicity to fill up for 30 miles
<rick_h> I will say, if you go that route dte has a special pricing plan for plugin vehicles
<rick_h> but the charger has to be on it's own with its own meter
<rick_h> which I didn't know before I had my stuff installed
 * dzho is in NY
<dzho> but thanks anyway :-)
<rick_h> so now it's a question of how much more it'd cost me to redo the charger vs the electical savings
<rick_h> hah, ok, well lessons stands about chatting with the electrical authorities up front
 * rick_h got bit by the JFDI principle
<dzho> library/townhall at the end of our street has a charging station, which is kind of cool
<dzho> the other huge thing is that state legislature finally approved car "sharing" services for upstate (eg, for non NYC, where there was already a deal)
<dzho> so I think our transport situation is going to start getting more interesting
<rick_h> interesting
<rick_h> I checked out the plugshare app which is cool
<dzho> car free and single-vehicle households might end up to be more of a thing
<rick_h> but honestly not that often we go somewhere to charge vs just each night at home
<rick_h> yea, nice idea. would be cool
<dzho> my long distance benchmark is the 90 mile one way to sisters-in-law
<dzho> if real-world range on electrics gets to that I might be in, at least on the 2nd car (no car seats any more so our minivan days might be done)
<rick_h> yea, honestly the mini-van was because my wife hates driving large vehicles
<dzho> OTOH hybrid minivan plus electric car would make it very snooty
<rick_h> but we do skiing, camping, soccer, fishing, etc
<dzho> oh right
<rick_h> so it drives like her taurus, but has enough room inside for all the stuff
<rick_h> plus the dogs
<rick_h> I asked her to look into them after she kept getting smaller and smaller SUVs
<dzho> my brother and SIL have an aversion to minivans which I don't understand so they have some big SUV that really doesn't have that much room
<rick_h> well, not getting but test driving
 * dzho likes a minivan
<rick_h> yea, it's a ton more comfy than an escape, or the like
<rick_h> and the pacifica doesn't look like crap imo
<dzho> yeah
<dzho> but for some people it's just the idea
<rick_h> but then again I get in my 2500 and start up the diesel so I have balance in life :)
<dzho> and I'm like, you have 2 dogs and 2 kids, get over it already.
<rick_h> lol
<dzho> haha
<dzho> no emissions cheating on that, yet, eh?
<rick_h> no emissions requirement :) https://goo.gl/photos/RgxDwhtcBSvezYYV8
<dzho> just don't show me anything that has you rolling coal, ok?
<dzho> just sayin'
<rick_h> hah no, I'm stock
<rick_h> no desire to blow black smoke. I like to take that setup into the woods too much
<rick_h> hauling of the toys https://goo.gl/photos/LZLNX6hr9Qf8QDZdA
<rick_h> and hiding in the VA mountains https://goo.gl/photos/9jNFHGADLmNGx7ff8
<rick_h> hah and south dakota https://goo.gl/photos/uuwkVE6SN9cu8Gk48 good trip that one
<rick_h> anyone, time to move laundry check ya later dzho
<dzho> see ya!
<notlikethesoup> morning
<rick_h> Ugh does it have to be?
<notlikethesoup> if you sleep for another 5 hours, no
<rick_h> I'm liking this plan of yours
<rick_h> But meetings in an hour...boooo
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-26
<cmaloney> Good morning
<widox> morning
<widox> happy friday!
<cmaloney> Whee
<shakes808> have a good holiday weekend all
<cmaloney> u2
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-27
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> 'sup?
<_stink_> ehh enough
<_stink_> :P
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> Not much. Just posting stuff about me on a social network.
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/2497022
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-28
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-21
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> so so much soreness
<rick_h_> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Wc8KtW93CihITBJ2 so much fun lol
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> rick_h_: that looks fun. Where is that?
<rick_h_> jrwren: brevard NC, pisgah national forest
<waldo323> good morning
<greg-g> this cookie policy overlay with all the cookies and their function is pretty cool (haven't read article yet, still geeking out on this part ;)) https://theoutline.com/post/4543/journalists-ptsd-online-harassment-digital-ptsd-alt-right-white-nationalists?zd=1&zi=uxh2h2iv
<waldo323> ha I didn't see the overlay and read part of the article
<waldo323> what browser are you using which shows the cookie policy overlay for that site?
<brousch> I also saw no overlay
<brousch> I think it is greg-g click-baiting us
<greg-g> oh, I bet it's because I'm in the EU right now
<greg-g> (still in Barcelona)
<greg-g> spoof your IP :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: :P
<cmaloney> Whee
<cmaloney> Just got back from Frankenmuth for our anniverary
<cmaloney> anniversary
<rick_h_> nice
<rick_h_> congrats cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<Scary_Guy> Yeah that PTSD thing sounds like crap.  Maybe you get it if you're dumb and don't realize that you're safe behind a screen.  I can see PTSD from online bullies but that's about it.
<Scary_Guy> I can see getting angry at watching horrific tragic events unfold on TV/internet, like 9/11 etc...  PTSD is a bit of a stretch though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-22
<waldo323> I thought the article was about reporters who were at some of the protests that had ptsd maybe i didn't get to another part of the article?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-23
<jrwren> https://getstream.io/blog/winds-2-0-its-time-to-revive-rss/
<cmaloney> yes, please
<jrwren> where does the MAIL envvar get set?
<cmaloney> Not sure. I don't have mine set that I'm aware of
<jrwren> bash automatically sets it.
<jrwren> and its not smart about it :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-24
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<flipsidecreation> good afternoon
<cmaloney> good night
<cmaloney> zzzzz
<waldo323> g'day
<daemoneye> hey waldo323
<waldo323> hey daemoneye
<daemoneye> how goes?
<waldo323> pretty well
<waldo323> and you?
<daemoneye> good to hear
<cmaloney> \m/
<daemoneye> I've been better mentally.
<daemoneye> But, okay otherwise
<waldo323> :-\ anything we can do to help?
<daemoneye> Not really... feeling a bit talked down on at a work meeting
<cmaloney> That's always fun. :(
<daemoneye> yeah.
<waldo323> yeah :-\
<cmaloney> Was it something that you feel was your fault?
<daemoneye> Kind of... There was some code to figure out that is in C++. I don't know C++ very well. The project got passed to a student who has experience with C++. They are now saying how much better the student is at it than myself.
<cmaloney> Ah, that always sucks
<cmaloney> but it's also a data-point
<cmaloney> You know where your weaknesses are in programming
<daemoneye> yep. So, I got stuck with writing documentation.
<waldo323> c++
<cmaloney> do you have access to the code that the student is working on?
<daemoneye> I don't until he pushes the final product
<cmaloney> If you have the opportunity to look at it then you can see where the delta is between you and the student
<cmaloney> and see what you can improve
 * daemoneye nods
<cmaloney> At least you have the opportunity to get better
<daemoneye> yep
<cmaloney> even though you're stuck with the discomfort now of knowing that there's a gap
<daemoneye> I am okay with C and apparently that means I am good with C++
<cmaloney> They're two completely separate languages
<daemoneye> I am also really underpaid.
<daemoneye> That they are
<cmaloney> but nobody knows that until they know that. ;)
<daemoneye> yep
<cmaloney> When is the project supposed to be done?
<daemoneye> There was no specific date; I was working on it for about a month before the student took over and did the same work in a week and is now adding the other features.
<cmaloney> because if this is a student working on this and it's supposed to be done in August then they've fucked themselves
<cmaloney> Ah
<daemoneye> Yep. The student will probably be able to work into the next year
<cmaloney> Unitl they burn out
<daemoneye> yep
<cmaloney> Because one can only do the wonderkid routine for so long
<daemoneye> Yeah
<cmaloney> But yeah, that sucks
 * daemoneye nods
<cmaloney> Hoping you at least get the opportunity to learn before this is all over
<cmaloney> I really hate it when places don't allow for learning
<cmaloney> even if the only thing you learn is never to work there.
<brousch> The intern here is getting a project done that has been taking me forever. The big difference is that he is only doing that project, while I'm doing 10 projects (including managing the intern). The point being, just because he is getting something done faster, doesn't mean you can really compare it.
<cmaloney> ++
<cmaloney> And sometimes all that's needed is a fresh pair of eyes on a project
<daemoneye> cmaloney: I often feel I can't always truly learn here
<cmaloney> but again, having recent experience with C++
<cmaloney> that helps
<cmaloney> Where do you see the gaps?
<daemoneye> yep. I see it as being "hurry up and do this without having to understand it"
<brousch> daemoneye: That is dangerous
<daemoneye> I agree
<daemoneye> Anyway, thanks for letting me vent
<brousch> Congrats! Did you just get your PHD?
<DrDaemonEye> brousch: In jokes and sarcasm, yes
<cmaloney> heh
<goat-g> stupid nickserv
<cmaloney> I'm sure it'll be fixed soon
<cmaloney> goat-g: Unrelated: I really hate the whole "you haven't logged into this service with this device before, please do all the things to authenticate again"
<cmaloney> Steam in particular.
<cmaloney> I think my Steam account is more secured than some financial institutions
<goat-g> stupidly, what if I was doing things "right" and I traveled somewhere with my laptop turned off, logged out of services, unique random long ass passwords for everything including email, get some where and it says "new location, who dis? check your email"...  I'd be SOL
<cmaloney> yep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-25
<Scary_Guy> should have gone with goat-se
<waldo323> i was going to say good morning but then i saw the last message
<Scary_Guy> :D
<cmaloney> howdy
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/rhythmbox/issues/936
<cmaloney> Apparently GNOME is moving to gitlab and they migrated my issue over and marked it as obsolete
<cmaloney> now I have closure. :)
<Scary_Guy> lol
<waldo323> is that really a good thing?
<waldo323> or is it truely obsolete due to newer versions?
<cmaloney> I don't think Rhythmbox still talks to Magnatune
<cmaloney> since Magnatune changed their whole business model in the interim
<waldo323> ah
<brousch> At least it's just the bug that's obsolete, not you
<cmaloney> It's implied. ;)
<greg-g> cmaloney: I got one from a Launchpad bug I was subscribed to for rhythmbox as well: "cannot burn playlists as data only as audio CD" -> expired :)
<greg-g> "who uses CDs anymore?" ;)
<greg-g> says the guy with a tape deck in his car
<cmaloney> I fixed my Yamaha CD player
<cmaloney> but it was mostly because it was a quick fix and I adore this CD player
<cmaloney> CDC-735
<cmaloney> But it's also next to the Squeezebox Classic
<cmaloney> in the basement
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-26
<Scary_Guy> Meh, I use audacious these days anyway.  I get to use the winamp classic skins so that nostalgia feel is real.  I even made one of them from "scratch" taking screenshots of Traktor 2 and making a Traktor amp in 2002
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-18
<llua> jrwren: i build my own
<llua> systemd-nspawn(1) has examples on how to create chroot installs for various distros.
<cmaloney> https://www.humblebundle.com/books/learn-you-some-python-no-starch-press-books?mc_cid=b822cd8611
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-19
<jrwren> this was on hacker news and it wasn't until page14 that there was something new to me, but WOW... very cool. https://www.usenix.org/sites/default/files/conference/protected-files/lisa19_maheshwari.pdf
<cmaloney> I just got rejected from this team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors
<cmaloney> TIL: I applied to be on this team.
<jrwren> lol.
<_stink_> surprise!
<jrwren> windows got a pkg mgr -= https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-package-manager-preview/?WT.mc_id=ITOPSTALK-reddit-abartolo
<jrwren> WTF is going on?!?! https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/19/21263377/microsoft-windows-10-linux-gui-apps-gpu-acceleration-wsl-features
<cmaloney> They're trying to out-Linux Linux. :)
<rick_h> embrace/extend?
<rick_h> sorry, I didn't have any $ in that answer, I lose
<cmaloney> extingui$h
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm impressed with their trajectory
<jrwren> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directx-heart-linux/  it is crazy really
<cmaloney> not that I'm planning on adopting Linux any time soon
<cmaloney> oh noes
<cmaloney> they've got to me
 * cmaloney withers
<cmaloney> not that I'm planning on adopting _Windows_ any time soon
<jrwren> in the last case, i think it is because they want apps running on azure, and that is how they'll let them GPU accel on azure in linux
<jrwren> but still.... ð¤¯
<cmaloney> Ah, that makes totes sense
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-20
<jrwren> its been a month since 20.04 came out... time to upgrade from 19.10
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> hopefully it is stable without the new kernel, because I don't want to reboot
<jrwren> til: bzr -> breezy
<jrwren> does anyone know how ubuntu installer decides to install hardware related packages on install time? e.g. i have a wifi chip and the broadcom package didn't get installed at install time. I'd love to suggest a patch, but I've no idea where this data is
<cmaloney> That's a good question. I have no idea
<cmaloney> perhaps a look-up table?
<jrwren> sure, but where?
<cmaloney> not sure offhand.
<jrwren> i should ask in #ubuntu I guess. I wonder if there is an #ubuntu-installer
<cmaloney> which package did you have to install?
<jrwren> i don't remember its name. I'd have to go look.
<cmaloney> if it's Broadcom it's likely because the repo for non-free software wasn't part of the install
<cmaloney> that would be my guess
<cmaloney> like the NVidia drivers
<cmaloney> That's why I asked about the package.
<jrwren> oh, that could be it.
<jrwren>  bcmwl-kernel-source in restricted... so yup, I guess so.
<jrwren> thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> jrwren: np. Glad it got sorted.
<cmaloney> unrelated: I wish Broadcom would just open the damn source already
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i wish vendors would stop using broadcom chips
<jrwren> ;)
<jrwren> man, that system76 laptop is more tempting every day.
<cmaloney> ++
<jrwren> if it wasn't $2000 I'd have it already ;)
<mrgoodcat> today I finally decided to give multipass a try and boy am i glad i did
<rick_h> just use lxd! (unless you're on windows/mac then enjoy multipass)
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-21
<jrwren> oh man... the apt autoremove after upgrading freed like a GB
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: i am indeed on windows
<mrgoodcat> er macos
<mrgoodcat> idk why i said windows
<mrgoodcat> basically, for uninteresting reasons our test suite cannot run on macos. My solution is to use multipass to set up a headless ubuntu vm, and use visual studio code's excellent ssh remote plugin
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea that's good stuff
<mrgoodcat> my old solution was a virtualbox vm
<mrgoodcat> this is superior in every way that matters to me
<mrgoodcat> i need to be talked out of buying a ripmo
<rick_h> hah I want one of the ne one
<rick_h> ones
<rick_h> the main stopper is I just spent $$$ on i9 27.5 rims lol
<mrgoodcat> I have a stache right now. I'm really struggling with what to do
<rick_h> I keep looking at my current bike and all the parts I could repurpose
<mrgoodcat> honestly, I probably dont even need a new bike. but i _want_ a new bike
<rick_h> always have that in there
<rick_h> yea, the big thing is that I really prefer the hardtail for the MI trails
<rick_h> ripmo is soo much bike
<rick_h> but here in NC it'd be good to have a little bit more
<rick_h> or like when I go to blue mouain (if I get to go this year)
<rick_h> a coil ripmo would be pretty good
<mrgoodcat> my choices are basically, 1) upgrade and keep current bike 2) get a short travel bike and probably sell current HT 3) get a longer travel bike and keep both
<mrgoodcat> blue mountain is closed for 2020
<rick_h> oh did they decide to just kill it?
 * rick_h hoped to get out there later in the year but guess it was wishful thinking
<mrgoodcat> that was what i saw. maybe it was temporary, but I seem to remember it being the full year
<mrgoodcat> oh no looks like they're open
<mrgoodcat> to season pass holders only
<rick_h> gotcha
<rick_h> anyway, keep the hard tail for MI stuff, get a bigger bike to travel with :)
<mrgoodcat> if i go for a short travel (tallboy current front runner), i'll sell my hardtail. no reason for me to own a short travel and a 29+ HT
<mrgoodcat> if i go long travel, i want to keep the HT for michigan riding
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> so short travel the new ripley is pretty sweet
<rick_h> or maybe a transition scout
<rick_h> thoes are pretty well thought of
<mrgoodcat> i haven't ridden it, but the reviews describe the ripley as "twitchy"
<mrgoodcat> maybe its just the short travel feel. seems like all the reviewers are enduro guys
<mrgoodcat> also theres no ibis dealer around here. i'm happy doing my own work, but if i need a warranty claim or something driving to grand rapids is a bummer
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: just curious. if you feel like your mojo is too much for MI but not enough for NC, where do you feel like it fits just right?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  bentonville lol
<rick_h> I mean it does NC and it does Oregon and such
<rick_h> but there's a few times on the black/harder trails I wish for more
<rick_h> but on anything blue, easy blacks it's great
<rick_h> I guess it's just that as I pushmy riding up I wish for a bit more on the harder stuff
<jrwren> yay for 20.04... python 3.8 and no python2.
<rick_h> woot woot
<rick_h> what's a python 2?
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> this is huge. https://ubuntu.com/blog/fips-certification-ubuntu-18-04-lts
<jrwren> congrats.
<rick_h> wheeeee
<rick_h> now to finish getting the UA client to use enable it easily
<cmaloney> <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-22
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: whelp as it turns out no bike manufacturers can even deliver a bike until august or september so maybe i'm waiting until winter sales anyway o.O
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea, heard that everyone was buying bike with the shutdown
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  maybe a good time on the used market?
<rick_h> ripmo v1 is still pretty kicking
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-24
<jrwren> oh this feels weird: sudo apt install python-is-python3
