#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-20
<snap-l> Good God, they're dismantling parts of the twit cottage
<snap-l> http://live.twit.tv
<snap-l> You should see some of the stuff that's in there
<rick_h_> nice
<snap-l> Interesting... under Natty I can now view stuff under my iPhone
<snap-l> That is pretty slick
<snap-l> Of course I fully blame Apple for making it so this is an event
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> Ye gods, that's a lot of cables.
<snap-l> And figures they're using Turntable.fm for music
<snap-l> instead of outloud.fm
<greg-g> ugh, turntable is FB only?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> http://www.axiaaudio.com/
<snap-l> IT's purdy.
<rick_h_> ouch, $6k
<jjesse> wow my home internet is running terribly slow tonight, almost like hotel internet :(
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> yep
<snap-l> Good morning
 * greg-g goes down IRC periscope
<jcastro> snap-l: how's the laptop?
<snap-l> Awesome, thank you
<snap-l> Only issue I've noticed is that the SD card slot doesn't appear to work
<snap-l> but I'm chalking that up to me not being able to figure out how to get the card in there right
<brousch> snap-l: damn sd slots never work in linux
<snap-l> I've had varying success with different laptops
<snap-l> HP laptops I've never had work well
<brousch> eeepc, dell, hp all have failed for me
<brousch> i declare that is equivalent to all
<jcastro> they've all always just worked for me
<snap-l> But this isn't working even as a boot devce. Doesn't seem to be recognized at all
<brousch> oh well, i carry a sd-usb dongle
<jcastro> snap-l: anything in /var/log/syslog when you plug it in?
<jcastro> snap-l: also check the bios!
<snap-l> I had one little dmesg success, I think
<snap-l> jcastro: Already checked. :)
<snap-l> It's a minor issue at best.
<snap-l> I have a SD card USB dongle
<jcastro> ah
<snap-l> so I'm good in a pinch
<rick_h_> never had an issue with those on my htinkpads
<rick_h_> it's how I get my photos off now
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the issue is mechanical
<jcastro> :-/ that sucks
<jcastro> I miss that keyboard already
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a nice keyboard
<rick_h_> huh? the 220 has a worse keyboard?
<snap-l> I think jcastro is just used to the mac-style keyboards. :)
<snap-l> But the key sculpt is nice
<snap-l> Gives your fingers an additional positional cue
<jcastro> snap-l: I tossed up some clapton on outloud
<snap-l> Sure-fire way to keep me off there. :)
<snap-l> That and Santana are my musical kryptonite
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Throw in Janis Joplin, and I think I'll lose bladder control
<brousch> tool
<snap-l> I like Tool
<rick_h_> !!!!!
<jcastro> want me to add some tool?
<snap-l> Have never had a problem with their music
<snap-l> Going to be on a conf. call in about 30, but sure
<snap-l> Now playing: Alice in Chains
<jcastro> yeah sec
<jcastro> I am reoring,
<snap-l> no complaints
<jcastro> this song is from that Arnold movie
<snap-l> And someone just disconnected.
<jcastro> that's me reorganizing
<snap-l> Ah, :)
<jcastro> I was playing from another machine
<jcastro> that is in the middle of syncing
<jcastro> so it didn't have the music yet
<snap-l> Angry Again is an awesome song
<snap-l> Do you have Hidden Treasures?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> dude I have it on CD somewhere
<jcastro> what song do you want?
<jcastro> (but I have them on mp3)
<snap-l> I have it on CD, so no worries
<snap-l> Just have to rip it again
<jcastro> hey I need that king crimson
<brousch> snap-l: your openmetalcast contest has me re-listening to my jamendo favorites
<snap-l> brousch: That's the idea
<brousch> ur devious
<snap-l> Well, you'd be the third to vote in this
<snap-l> If you'd select something other than Severed Fith and Cloudkicker, I'd be happy.
<snap-l> Those are guaranteed at this point
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<snap-l> Oh neat. The Chrome lens shows download progress
<rick_h_> anyone ever use the R language?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not explicitly
<_stink_> naw, but i know a couple of folks who use it quite a bit
<_stink_> wanna get into it
<rick_h_> excuse to get a book, postgres can do stored procs in R
<rick_h_> since we're a research doing a ton of stats calcs figured I'd check it out
<snap-l> Yeah, but the RPMs for it are a bitch to get working
<snap-l> or at least they were about a year aho
<snap-l> ago
<rick_h_> good to know
<snap-l> requires a special build of PostgreSQL
<krondor> lugwash.org was the Ann Arbor LUG I was interested in awhile back I guess
<jrwren> rick_h_: R is SWEET
<jrwren> rick_h_: but its stats programming. Like S or Splus or SPSS if you ever did that in stats class in college.  R is the same thing.
<jrwren> R:Splus::octave:Matlab and ::maxima:maple|mathematica
<jrwren> if you aren't doing stats on demand, I'd probably do a report extract adn feed that into R and not bother unifying to two.
<rick_h_> yea, that's kind of where this is coming out of
<rick_h_> I'm writing a weighted group median calculating aggregate function for postgresql
<rick_h_> and if R can do some of the stats stuff itself, these can be written in R on postgres
<rick_h_> so you can run a query feeding rows into their stats functions vs me implementing all these stats calcs on my own in python
<rick_h_> or plsql
<rick_h_> work uses SPSS heavily so it's the kind of work we do, I've not messed with it personally
<snap-l> You could use matplotlib as well
<snap-l> There's some stats in there, assuming you don't go with R
<rick_h_> well, that's what I need to figure out, I don't just need graphs, just the add
<snap-l> Yeah, matplotlib is like a nice little scientific calculator
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> Er, I mean numpy
<snap-l> sorry
<rick_h_> ok, that makes more sense
<snap-l> They co-exist, so I've lumped them together in my head
<snap-l> ie: matplotlib needs numpy
<brousch> rick_h_ has inspired me once again. i'm asking for a wheeled cooler for my birthday
<rick_h_> ??
<rick_h_> when did I inspire that?
<snap-l> At the jam
<snap-l> You had the wheeled cooler, iirc.
<rick_h_> ah right, carrying the beer cooler blocks
<rick_h_> gotcha, ok makes more sense now
<Wolfger> delayed inspiration :-)
<brousch> my brain works very slowly
<brousch> which is why i like eclipse - it works at my speed
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> truth. You don't need more than 1200 baud if your typing skills suck and your reading is slow. :-)
<snap-l> greg-g: Are you up periscope?
<snap-l> Getting into a debate online with someone about the Free Art License and Jamendo
<snap-l> will send e-mail
<brousch> ug, just sent a resignation notice to a group. i'm just too darn busy
<_stink_> been there done that
<brousch> at least this group has a good group of people to pick up the slack
<greg-g> back
<greg-g> snap-l: ?
<snap-l> greg-g: Just sent via e-mail to your CC account
<greg-g> k
 * greg-g checks
<greg-g> snap-l: replied :)
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> That clears things up. Thank you!
<snap-l> I think that conversation is deeper than just someone having a problem with Jamendo
<snap-l> (For those who want to play along: http://identi.ca/conversation/74289169#notice-76782605)
<snap-l> Good afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<Wolfger> live like a jackass, die like a jackass? http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/06/20/jackass.star.dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
<snap-l> Wolfger: Apparently
<brousch> hm, i think i can arrow around in vim almost as fast as i can scroll
<snap-l> How is it possible that that a band named "Cannabis Corpse" is not CC-licensed?
<snap-l> http://downloads.tankcrimes.com/album/beneath-grow-lights-thou-shalt-rise
<snap-l> This is a crime against humanity
<snap-l> http://deathband.bandcamp.com/album/the-sound-of-perseverance-reissue <- Holy fuck
<snap-l> First reaction: It's freaking DEATH on Bandcamp
<snap-l> Second reaction: I hope it's CC licensed
<snap-l> Third reaction: Jees, they want $24.99 for a much of demos? Blergh.
<snap-l> For those of you that haven't heard Death, it's worth the listen
<snap-l> Oh, nice, looks like Relapse hasa presence on Bandcamp
<snap-l> so I can get FLAC files. :)
<snap-l> http://obscura.bandcamp.com/album/omnivium
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-21
<snap-l> I can't believe there's a band that put out their music as 01.rar
<snap-l> and each of the tracks is 01.mp3, 02.mp3, etc.
<snap-l> Luckily they at least had the foresight to use id3 tags.
<rick_h_> heh nice
<rick_h_> how friendly of them
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> First chance I get, that's coming off my drive
<snap-l> Also noting that 640GB is likely not going to be enough for /media/music
<snap-l> I'm already at 13%, and haven't really started ripping discs.
<snap-l> /dev/sdb1            615319352  70835964 513226924  13% /mnt/music
<greg-g> yay /mnt/! ;)
<greg-g> sorry, had to
<snap-l> Yeah, delete me once, shame on me
<snap-l> delete me twice, I find you and play maracas with your nuts.
<greg-g> delete you twice, never delete you no more?
<snap-l> Delete me once. Delete me twice. I'll undelete at any price
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> I need this data like i needed it then
<snap-l> I'll alway say "backed up again... someday"
<greg-g> g'morning
<brousch> yessir
<Wolfger> says who?
<rick_h_> says me, party party
<Wolfger> bah
<Wolfger> they locked our thermostat and set the temp to "uncomfortably high". It's definitely not a good morning
<rick_h_> ugh, I get that a lot here to
<rick_h_> I have a themometer I show to my boss
<rick_h_> "see, it's 80...now 80 is beach weather. I should just head to the beach"
<Wolfger> Yeah, I threatened to turn the steel-toes in for sandals, and wear shorts
<Wolfger> but of course nobody that I can complain to has any control over it...
<Wolfger> the union guys are saying "work slower. It's too hot, and we don't want anybody getting a heart attack"
<rick_h_> lol, awesome
<Wolfger> The sad thing is, it's just the offices. The plant floor is still nice and cool.
<Wolfger> so I may go for a walk with my laptop and not come back
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> GOod morning, internet folks
<greg-g> Wolfger: it took me 3 weeks of 80+ degrees in this office and complaining to various facilities/management/etc people to get our temperature fixed. Apparently, there is one thermostat on the 2nd floor (I'm on the 4th) that controls this entire wing
<rick_h_> greg-g: gotta love that
<rick_h_> our therm is in a conference room down the hall
<rick_h_> well of course that small closed room is a totally different climate than the big cube farm we're in
<greg-g> no kidding. We now have 5 desktops and 8 22" monitors in here, it can get warm if you let it :)
<brousch> but don't you wear sandals, shorts, and no shirt to work?
<greg-g> I wish
<greg-g> for a while I was wearing sandals, but now my boss is back in town
<Wolfger> darned bosses
<greg-g> no kidding, right?
<brousch> In this Flask app that I'm writing I use a list to keep some data that changes regularly. I that list the same across threads if i deploy to mod_wsgi? https://sourceforge.net/p/waznexserver/code/ci/4028742f72bea7570941752ee42beaaec721fb47/tree/main.py
<snap-l> brousch: hey hey hey, no talking about real work when we're bitching about the weather.
<brousch> well technically it's a side project, so it's fun
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Also see that Dave got you using the new beta.
<brousch> yeah, i like it
<snap-l> Yeah, it's quite nice. Lots of good ideas in there.
<brousch> i wish SF had private repos so i could host non OSS stuff there
<snap-l> Not likely to happen any time soon
<brousch> that's what he said too
<brousch> i should go to a database backend instead of a list and eliminate any worry
<snap-l> That would be my first recommendation
<rick_h_> brousch: so when you deploy mod_wsgi, apache spins up several workers of your app
<brousch> i think so
<rick_h_> now, any requests that go the same worker that would be constant
<rick_h_> but not across the apache workers
<rick_h_> each of those is separate
<brousch> damn
<rick_h_> as apache spins up more instances to hanlde load, you'd end up with a bunch of different versions of that list
<rick_h_> you need a persistant store, sqlite, memcache, etc
<rick_h_> single points like that don't let you scale beyond a single process really
<rick_h_> unless you want to get into the joys of interprocess communication
<brousch> no. i want to keep it simple
<snap-l> I seem to recall that the scoreboard might be useful for something like that
<rick_h_> sqlite it is then
<snap-l> but I may be remembering wrong
<brousch> the scoreboard?
<rick_h_> well, except that it doens't like multiple users at once without locking issues :/
<snap-l> Bah, install PostgreSQL
<snap-l> be a man
<brousch> dreamhost frowns on that
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> couchdb then? :)
<brousch> obviously i need mongo for this
<snap-l> now you have two problems
<snap-l> now you have three problems
<snap-l> (mongo counts for two problems)
<rick_h_> hey, I like couch
<snap-l> I like couch too
 * Wolfger likes couches
<brousch> time to dive into sqlalchemy
<snap-l> Also loving the news that Dropbox unlocked everyone's accounts?
<rick_h_> now would be a good time for a tutoria, if only there was one coming up :)
 * rick_h_ goes back to work...too depressing to think about the world's security
<snap-l> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/21/045228/Dropbox-Password-Goof-Let-Any-Password-Work-For-4-Hours
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sorry, man
<snap-l> our podcasts might have been compromised
 * snap-l doesn't keep anything in there, really
<rick_h_> all my purchased books
<rick_h_> scanned day care receipts
<brousch> you mean my purchased books!
<rick_h_> meh, could be worse I guess
<snap-l> "Oh shit, they might access my coupons and my FUDGE books that I'm reading on the iPhone"
<snap-l> And our logo / podcasts.
<brousch> i'm afraid to ask what a FUDGE book is
<snap-l> http://fudgerpg.com/
<snap-l> Unfortunately their site is a hot mess, but it's a good system.
<snap-l> http://fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files.html
<snap-l> Developed on the Internet back when folks used Usenet
<Wolfger> Folks don't use Usenet anymore?
<brousch> i use the net every day
<snap-l> har har
<snap-l> Not like they used to use Usenet
<snap-l> it was the Internet's biggest forum
<snap-l> I really miss Usenet some days
<snap-l> then I look at other message boards and think "I'm glad I'm not paying for the privilege of having this piped directly into my house"
<Wolfger> You get free broadband? :-o
<Wolfger> or do you mean s/not paying/not paying extra/
<snap-l> God, Windows with Bluetooth is shit
<snap-l> Paying Extra, I mean
<brousch> ubuntuone needs to jump on the dropbox security woes
<snap-l> And get their own? :)
<Wolfger> ouch
<jrwren> greg-g: what building are you in that has such poor env controls?
<snap-l> jrwren: It's a library building. :)
<snap-l> Monitored by the finest in library sciences gestappo agents
<jrwren> you realize there are over 100 libraries at umich?
<snap-l> jrwren: You realize there's no such thing as library sciences gestappo agents
<Wolfger> that's at least 98 too many
<Wolfger> snap-l: how about a library sciences gazpacho?
<greg-g> jrwren: shapiro library
<snap-l> finding the Bitcoin story fascinating
<Wolfger> Possibly of interest: Free (CC-BY) icons. http://www.fatcow.com/free-icons
<snap-l> nice!
<Wolfger> Also a free font
<Wolfger> Thanks, snap-l. Now I have that song stuck in my head.
<brousch> greg-g: you work in the UGLi?
<greg-g> brousch: I work on the 4th floor of it, yep :)
<Wolfger> getting all specific now...
<snap-l> Are you facing the Atlantic or the Pacific
<snap-l> ?
<greg-g> pacific
<Wolfger> what are your GPS coordinates?
<_stink_> a/s/l?
<rick_h_> oooh shiny: https://github.com/Pita/etherpad-lite/tree/182477af93eaab667a5c7db03888788ea0f47434
<snap-l> Two months ago we migrated from MD5 hashing to freeBSD MD5 salted hashing.?The unsalted user accounts in the wild are ones that haven't been accessed in over 2 months and are considered idle. Once we are back up we will have implemented SHA-512 multi-iteration salted hashing and all users will be required to update to a new strong password.
<snap-l> seriously, a site that is based on cryptographic strong hashes for currency was using MD5 salted passwords?
<greg-g> who?
<greg-g> bitcoin stuff?
<snap-l> Yeah
<greg-g> ok, pythonistas, why would one do "newlist = mylist[:]" instead of just "newlist = mylist" ?
<snap-l> newlist = mylist would copy the pointer, so they'd be the same
<snap-l> newlist = mylist[:] would copy the data
<_stink_> shit, i didn't know that trick.
 * snap-l verifies this
<_stink_> i would just use deepcopy or something.
<snap-l> In [1]: mylist = [1,2,3]
<snap-l> In [2]: mylist
<snap-l> Out[2]: [1, 2, 3]
<snap-l> In [3]: newlist = mylist
<snap-l> In [5]: newlist.append(4)
<snap-l> In [6]: mylist
<snap-l> Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4]
<greg-g> wow, thanks!
<brousch> wouldn't [:] copy the pointers to any objects in the list?
<snap-l> In [10]: mylist = [1,2,3]
<snap-l> In [11]: newlist = mylist[:]
<snap-l> In [12]: newlist.append(4)
<snap-l> In [13]: mylist
<snap-l> Out[13]: [1, 2, 3]
<brousch> so the objects in the new list would be same as in the old?
<_stink_> i think [:] would just copy the first level.
<brousch> yeah, that's what i was asking
<_stink_> like if the list held dicts, the new list would hold the same dict pointers
<snap-l> _stink_: ++
<brousch> so deepcopy still has a purpose
<_stink_> right
<greg-g> (this was a question for someone who works at CC and saw it in some code but didn't know exactly what it was. He's the sysadmin)
<_stink_> hey, learned something today.  and it's only 10:30.
<snap-l> _stink_: time to go home, then
<_stink_> damn right
<rick_h_> I'm not sure you'd want to deepcopy by default
<rick_h_> but yea, [:] is a new list from a slide
<rick_h_> /slide/slice
<snap-l> http://scoopertino.com/exposed-the-imac-disaster-that-almost-was/
<snap-l> The letter from Sean Connery to Steve Jobs is priceless.
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83187358165499904 ouch
<snap-l> Wow
<snap-l> Man, FF5 already
<rick_h_> looks like this coming back to bite him: https://twitter.com/#!/GDgeek/status/72671736897875970
<snap-l> Apparently Firefox got Chrome version number envy
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/DavidAndGoliath/status/72736927589208065
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> and I look forward to FF2112
<rick_h_> yea, FF on the frazy
<snap-l> Should drop any day now
<rick_h_> I got an email from an automated check for the Bookie FF extension on FF6 already
<snap-l> That DavidAndGoliath post doesn't make any damn sense
<brousch> wtf. they were hosting 3 TB of data for $35/mo?
<rick_h_> yes
<rick_h_> a while back he was trying to find the absolute cheapest dedicated server hosting he could
<brousch> do people pay for pinboard?
<rick_h_> which I thought odd since he tries to keep a small number of boxes
<rick_h_> yes
<snap-l> Either they got the sweetest deal on the planet, or someone is hosting from their garage
<snap-l> I did
<brousch> i suggest a heapin pile of flaming poo bags on his porch
<rick_h_> well that's where that comment is from, people warning him that at that price, dont' expect a lot
<snap-l> I pay $24.95 for Linode, and I expect it to be there, damnit. :)
<rick_h_> and now he's been down for 9 hours and trying to setup a new db server elsewhere to get back up
<brousch> once people start actually paying you for your service you should really upgrade your hosting
<snap-l> Or have a way to spin up S3 hosting quickly
<rick_h_> he did an interview and prides himself on his 3 boxes repliating around them to each other
<rick_h_> /s3/ec2
<rick_h_> it
<snap-l> Sorry
<rick_h_> s the db server that's the thing
<rick_h_> you can't just spin up db servers with TB of disk
<krondor> anyone tried http://sparkleshare.org/ ?
<snap-l> Though I wonder how one gets 3TB of bookmarks
<snap-l> krondor: Not yet. Looks interesting
<brousch> maybe it indexes like bookie?
<rick_h_> he does have a 'storage' account you get for bookie like caching of content
<rick_h_> but I've not figured out if it's just screenshots, or what
<snap-l> Still, that's archive.org sizes
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/curbednetwork/status/83171089429168128 ?!
<snap-l> oh fuck
<snap-l> I hope he spent some of that internet cash for a PO box
<snap-l> because I'd hate for people to show up at his doorstep
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83050440689844224
<rick_h_> so looks like worst case is a new install brought up from s3 backup
<rick_h_> which might take a while based on size
<snap-l> Someone needs to tell him about gzip. :)
<rick_h_> http://thuktun.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/an-interview-with-maciej-ceglowski-of-pinboard/
<rick_h_> down there has a server setup description
<rick_h_> "Too much of the site now runs in screen;" lol
<snap-l> I say that boring hosting is a feature because in times of crisis you find yourself in a very comfortable and familiar setup. Itâs also easy to bring people in and explain what youâre doing. And you get the benefit of a lot of documented online experience with similar tools, by people smarter than you are who write about it well.
<Milyardo> rick_h_: A Liberal Arts major that knows how to use screen? My God
<snap-l> at least he used screen
<snap-l> instead of wondering where the job went when he logged off. ;)
<brousch> Milyardo: :P
<Milyardo> Indeed, I'm actually Impressed
<snap-l> What's funny is how many services we use that we think are bulletproof turn out to be scotch-taped together.
<rick_h_> _stink_: jcastro snap-l you guys know of any local college I could look at taking something on machine learning? stuff like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/azaraskin/5765482763/sizes/o/in/photostream/ ?
<rick_h_> not seeing anything in oaklands course work
<jcastro> man, no clue
<rick_h_> actually very afraid to see cobol and visual basic
<snap-l> rick_h_: Shit, that has math on it
<rick_h_> yea, it does :/
<snap-l> Oakland wouldn't have that. ;P
<rick_h_> I used to be good at it
<rick_h_> wondering if I could cobble enough together to grasp it
<brousch> rick_h_: University of Michigan
<jrwren> pinboard is $10??? WTF?
<_stink_> rick_h_: there are faculty in Computer Engineering that do this stuff, but i'll have to look more about courses
<_stink_> at WSU
<_stink_> i mean
<snap-l> Wayne might have something like that
<rick_h_> _stink_: ok, wondering if one school is known more for higher tech stuff
<snap-l> Hope College would have that
<_stink_> hmm, not sure WSU is 'known' for anything
<_stink_> bums?
<snap-l> WSU is known for being the university for people who don't mind parking tickets and random shit getting stolen from their car
<snap-l> Oakland is for people who don't mind not learning shit (at least in the Engineering department)
<snap-l> EE department, rather
<rick_h_> ok, well oakland is closest so started there
<rick_h_> but yea, turning up empty
<jcastro> I would guess U-M
<gamerchick02> jwren, that $10 is totally worth it.
<rick_h_> yea, that's a hike
<snap-l> I have my Theory of Computing book if you want to borrow it, rick_h_
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I'm debating. Learning on my own would take a lot of time I think because I'm rusty on the math side
<rick_h_> wondering if a class would help make it faster worth the $$
<brousch> snap-l: my future BIL is a cop for WSU :P
<_stink_> rick_h_: http://classschedule.wayne.edu/sections_new.cfm?subj=CSC&course=5800&campus=NOSELECTION&instr=NOSELECTION
<jrwren> rick_h_: look at OU's expert systems course.
<rick_h_> geeze, crazy to think my stats class was that long ago
<jrwren> or AI.
<jrwren> Machine Learning is just an AI specialization
 * _stink_ shrugs
<snap-l> brousch: At least he'll have his work cut out for him. :)
<_stink_> rick_h_: and other 5000-level courses on that site
<_stink_> fwiw
<rick_h_> _stink_: ooh, thanks
<_stink_> np
<rick_h_> that looks like a definite good start
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Computation-Languages-Automata-Complexity/dp/0805301437
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<snap-l> Mine is so old, it's a hardcover. ;)
<Milyardo> My Father had that book, started reading it once, never finished it.
<snap-l> Shit, i should re-read this book
<jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=513
<snap-l> Sits on my shelf like the Knuth books
<rick_h_> jrwren: cool, thanks
<jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=581
<rick_h_> I must have been in the undergrad class list
<jrwren> snap-l: is brookshear any better than others/
<snap-l> jrwren: It's what we used in my upper-level Comp-Sci classes
<jrwren> snap-l: why are you lking to comp theory for machine learning.
<jrwren> VERY diffrent fields.
<jrwren> snap-l: yeah, we used a different text, but it is not the cononical.
<jrwren> I think Chomsky's work is the more canonical text.
<jrwren> rick_h_: this one seems MOSt relevant: http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=616
<jrwren> the whole list is here:
<jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/catalog3.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&action=printable
<snap-l> jrwren: Was linking to Computational Theory as part of the building blocks for Machine Learning
<jrwren> oh, well, I don't know that it is really.
<jrwren> i mean, it is in as much as it is the foundation for all comptuer science
<jrwren> but beyond that, I dont' know that it does.
<jrwren> machine learning seems to be built on basic algorithms.
<jrwren> and stats
<jrwren> like Bayes and Markov
<snap-l> right.
<jrwren> rick_h_: don't forget about http://itunes.stanford.edu/
<snap-l> Heck, even MIT Courseware
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> http://see.stanford.edu/see/courseinfo.aspx?coll=348ca38a-3a6d-4052-937d-cb017338d7b1
<rick_h_> yea, I like the look of CSE 581 as a starter
<snap-l> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-867-machine-learning-fall-2006/
<rick_h_> only pre-req is db which I can handle no problem
<jrwren> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-867-machine-learning-fall-2006/
<rick_h_> but the neural net/etc is stuff I'd want to get to
<jrwren> oh, lol.
<snap-l> jrwren: Beat you. :)
<jrwren> snap-l: we must have googled the same stuff.
<rick_h_> nice
<jrwren> snap-l: JYNX! U OWE ME A COKE!
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> grumble. their class search for the schedule has no CSE section at all, just CIS
<jrwren> who? OU?
<rick_h_> yea, all the drop downs of decipline have CIS vs cse
<jrwren> are you in business school instaed of engineering school or something?
<rick_h_> no, I think the main site only looks at undergrad
<jrwren> could be
<rick_h_> yea, got it, can find the listings now
<rick_h_> just checking if there's an offering schedule/etc
<jrwren> if you think you need the focus of a classroom instead of online coursewear... we could organize something here and with CHC.
<rick_h_> cool thanks guys, lots of good links
<jrwren> ya know, take the online thing together and tehn meet at CHC to discuss and review that weeks course.
<jrwren> and be on teh same schedule
<snap-l> jrwren: I'd love that
<jrwren> i've done that with book reading group before and it was very successful IMO
<rick_h_> hah, forget a book club
<rick_h_> "machine learning club"
<snap-l> It's been a while since I've worked on any of the CompSci stuff
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> online coursewear club
<rick_h_> cool, will have to check it out
<rick_h_> I've just had a bug recently about some of the big data type learning/recommendation stuff
<snap-l> rick_h_: You are hitting the wall. :)
<rick_h_> and never got that high in school things, but it's a bit out of my casual reading/self learning branch
<jrwren> big data type?
<snap-l> and are looking for something to climb
<rick_h_> loved the pycon talk from the bit.ly tech
<rick_h_> big data
<rick_h_> all the social networks and their big data
<rick_h_> hopefully bookie and some larger datasets
<jrwren> oh, well, I think big data is yet another field :)
<jrwren> I got high in school things.
<Milyardo> big data?
<jrwren> see my masters degree?
<jrwren> large data
<rick_h_> I tried to get a master, I just can't stand school that much. I'm a practical person I think
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> you are too smart.
<rick_h_> the only reason this is coming up is that I want to try out doing practical stuff with it
<brousch> school is too slow for rick_h_
<jrwren> i'm dumb enough taht I didn't figure out how dumb school was until I got far into my masters.
<rick_h_> but a few classes from those that know more than me on a subject I'm interested in might work
<rick_h_> vs a whole set of courseware
<jrwren> mapreduce is really the #1 answer to large data.
<jrwren> if you can't solve it with map reduce, I think you are immediately back into research land that hasn't been practically proven.
<rick_h_> yea, but there's the math on relating items
<rick_h_> you need to know what to tell map reduce to do to get meaningful stuff out
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> that is the art part of the computer science
<jrwren> you are basically saying "how do I knwo what map and reduce function to use"
<jrwren> and sometimes that reduction part can be VERY challenging
<rick_h_> so my immediate practical thing is with bookmarks
<jrwren> for bookie?
<rick_h_> "you're viewing this bookmark, and here are 5 like it via tags/content
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> but also at work, we've got a lot of stats data that might be interesting
<rick_h_> "people that like car XXX also like car yyy"
<jrwren> the "like it" sounds more like clustering.
<rick_h_> I'm not 100% on it, but the idea's been in the back of my head
<jrwren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-means_clustering
<rick_h_> right, well 'like' can be scored based on popularity (views) actual content, age, etc
<rick_h_> yea, there's a ton of ways to put the things together
<jrwren> but then you need to define your distance function, and that can be challenging
<rick_h_> you have to walk through them and see what tends to help get your better scores/results
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> I think all that is the art part of what we do.
<rick_h_> yea, I mean these days, customer purchase info, etc all kinds of ways to need/get invovled in this
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> amazons "customers viewing this also viewed" is a good example.
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> and you can also s/view/purchase/
<jrwren> and get a different dataset
<jrwren> and when you are talking business application it is likely that both are important
<jrwren> or... i mean, multiple functions are important
<rick_h_> greg-g: is vermont in MI?
<greg-g> nope, neither are the smokies ;)
<rick_h_> ok, sorry read that too fast
<greg-g> should have put a "..." in there
<rick_h_> got thinking maybe I went 'too far'
<Milyardo> IMO application frameworks like MapRduce are often symptomatic of overuse of relation database models over object oriented or heirarchial databases
<rick_h_> disagree... :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: check out the NCT, they have some great maps
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> we've driven a few scenic routes that ran through it last year checking it out
<rick_h_> walked a bit down a trail head, it's on our todo when the boy gets older
<rick_h_> my grandmother's house in VA is like 5mi from a trail head
<rick_h_> oh crap, nvm, NCT was the one we did by manistee river
<rick_h_> that's the app trail
<greg-g> yeah, there is some good lookign NCT up by Duluth, though. But a 12 horu drive away :(
<rick_h_> yea, VA is as well
<rick_h_> how far is the smokeys?
<rick_h_> well 10-12hr
<greg-g> ish, yeah
<snap-l> Time to pounce on the mail-dude.
<rick_h_> uh oh, what toy is in the mail this time?
<snap-l> Just a few more ebay winnings.
<Milyardo> I'm thinking about upgrading from my G1, anyone have any recommendations? The G2 seems underpowered, so I was looking at the Nexus S or Desire HD at the moment
<snap-l> got some shrinkwrapped GURPS stuff for $1.99
<snap-l> My sis in law is thrilled with her G2
<rick_h_> Milyardo: on t-mo?
<snap-l> depends on what you want to do with it
<Milyardo> probably play alot of emulated games on it
<Milyardo> rick_h_: Yes, T-Mobile
<Milyardo> No contract though, swtching carriers could be an option
<rick_h_> the sensation hd is rated high
<rick_h_> some good things coming out about it
<Milyardo> but I've liked T-Mobile serviec in Flint though, hasn't been too bad
<rick_h_> basically I'd just check through android central reviews if you're not sure
<rick_h_> if you want to check out nfc, the nexus is about all there is
<Milyardo> Hardware stats sound sexy, price is pretty high though
<Milyardo> on the Sensation that is
<rick_h_> ok, well you didn't metion price :P
<Milyardo> Pirce isn't too much an issue, but it signicantly above the others
<rick_h_> I'd probably just to the nexus
<rick_h_> I'm a fan of the google devices though
<krondor> Milyardo:  G2X
<Milyardo> Hrmm...Pioneering AOSP development on the Sensation could be fun
<Milyardo> krondor: Is the G2X a rebranded Desire HD?
<Wolfger> snap-l: GURPS... when AD&D just isn't geeky enough. :-)
<Wolfger> but woot on the super deal
<krondor> Milyardo:  Desire HD is an HTC, G2X is an LG.  It's dual core (tegra 2) and a stock google experience (though not a 'google' phone so not clue on how updates will work).
<krondor> g2x versus htc sensation http://androinica.com/2011/04/t-mobile-g2x-vs-htc-sensation/
<krondor> also it has official Cyanogenmod support which is more important to me really... http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices/t-mobile-g2x
<jrwren> Milyardo: MayReduce is not an "application framework" so I don't know what you are talking about.
<jrwren> MapRduce also has nothing to do with RDB models or OO or Heirarchial db.
<Milyardo> Ignoring Tegra, The Sensation seems to have better hardware
<Milyardo> jrwren: If its not an software framework then what is it?
<rick_h_> basically a giant csv parser
<krondor> Milyardo: yeah sensations has a better screen, proc is better in some ways/worse in others, but it has sense ui and I think the locked bootloader stuff (before htc reversed on that) not sure on the last bit
<Milyardo> Tegra does interest me, might have to look into it
<brousch> krondor: i use cyanogenmod support as a necessary feature too
<binbrain> any "easy" way to maintain the formatted output of a command when dumping the output to a file?
<binbrain> nm
<brousch> i went down to The Geek Group's building at lunch and got to see this in action http://thegeekgroup.org/2011/06/18/captains-blog-tesla-coil-tuning/
<snap-l> Wolfger: Hey now. :)
<snap-l> Anyone have an opinion on the vornado fans? Are they just hype?
<gamerchick02> the what?
<gamerchick02> fans as in a fan to keep you cool? *confused*
<snap-l> yes
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> i thought you were talking about fans as in a fan of a team. i read that wrong
<_stink_> i was thinking that if this is about a thing that moves air, then i am impressed
<gamerchick02> and i haven't heard anything about vornado. sounds like a cross between a volcano and a tornado or something.
<_stink_> because i can never imagine caring about the quality of a fan.
<gamerchick02> well, you want something decent, IMHO
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://www.bifter.co.uk/ <- This is awesome.
<jrwren> Milyardo: an algorithm.  MapReduce: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.163.5292&rank=1
<jrwren> MapReduce is a programming model and an associated implementation for processing and generating large data sets.
<rick_h_> snap-l: I've got 3 vornados
<rick_h_> I love them personally, medium one is best
<rick_h_> really want to get a larger one but they're $$
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ready to spend $60 on a fan. :)
<snap-l> but figured you might have an opinion. :)
<rick_h_> they're definitely worth it over a normal rotating fan
<rick_h_> I got one from woot, amazon special, and just paid for the 3rd after loving the other two
<snap-l> Which one do you have, the 630?
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/JuXuk
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/3AmqY
<rick_h_> yea, 630 and 730
<snap-l> Yeah, the 730 looks nice
<rick_h_> yea, my fav
<rick_h_> if you want to try one let me know
<rick_h_> I'll bring it to CHC
<rick_h_> can bring one of each down
<rick_h_> borrow it while we're away
<snap-l> Yeah, that would be great
<rick_h_> remind me to grab them
<snap-l> Sure thing
<rick_h_> but yea, will do
<snap-l> Wish List Extension for Chrome
<snap-l> Keep track of what you want. Add anything from any website to your Amazon Wish List.
<snap-l> OK, that's just dangerous
<binbrain> OMG, who knew about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcb7VPw59s
<snap-l> I think I'm going to give up on twit vides
<snap-l> and just do the audio streams instead.
<rick_h_> I'm getting close to giving up on twit
<snap-l> nad just download the ones that are interesting
<snap-l> rick_h_: I don't want to go that far, but I'm understanding why you would say that
<rick_h_> it's been getting bad lately imo
<snap-l> I think the tech news is just bad
<rick_h_> down to really just TNT, TWiT, and google
<rick_h_> maybe
<snap-l> Just depressing to hear about all of the locked-down stuff, security breaches, and people behaving badly.
<rick_h_> well and they're starting to sound kind of uninformed more and more
<snap-l> meh, to a certain extent
<snap-l> I think you just need a break from tech
<snap-l> like, say a week
<rick_h_> heh, sounds good to me
<snap-l> starting Thursday
<rick_h_> yea, I can't even find a good tech book for the trip
<rick_h_> thinking I might just drop it all and go fun book or something
<brousch> go no book
<brousch> listen to the voices in your head
<snap-l> the voices in my head need an editor, badly
<TeamXlink> What amd atholn 64 would be equilvalent to a pentium 4 2.8 ghz hyperthreading?
<brousch> TeamXlink: http://paulisageek.com/compare/cpu/
<rick_h_> I guess no, intel ftw
<TeamXlink> Thank you for the link!
<snap-l> http://www.anandtech.com/show/1657
<snap-l> brousch's Google Foo is better than mine. :)
<snap-l> Though that's newer CPUs
<brousch> this one is probably more useful http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
<TeamXlink> Ah, thank you!
<TeamXlink> That gave me what I needed to know.
<brousch> i would guess amd athlon xp 2400+ or 2500+
<snap-l> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+9850B+Quad-Core
<snap-l> That's my desktop machine
<TeamXlink> Nice computer.
<snap-l> It's old now. :)
<TeamXlink> LOL
<snap-l> It was middling when I bought it
<snap-l> COnsidering the upper level machines are in the 8000+ mark now, I don't think this thing will be winning any races
<TeamXlink> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+4+2.00GHz
<TeamXlink> My motherboard can't support the 2.8 ghz Pentium 4 I got, my motherboard only supports 544MHz FSB, the Pentium 4 2.8 GHZ is 800MHz FSB. At the moment I hgave to use my 2.00GHZ Pentium 4..
<snap-l> I <3 that when I'm connected to the VPN at work, I can't test anything with SOAPUI
<snap-l> h, because of the stupid proxy
<snap-l> <- idgit
<TeamXlink> I'm looking for a Micro ATX motherboard that supports: Socket 478, 800MHz FSB, 8x AGP, four or less expansion slots (Including AGP because the case I have only has 4 slots), and has at least 2 sata ports.(At the moment I'm using a PCI Sata card, but I'd rather have it on the motherboard). Newegg stoped selling 478 motherboards, where is a good place to look?
<snap-l> eBay, more than likely
<TeamXlink> Thank you.
<snap-l> Not sure where else might carry them
<brousch> am i totally dense for having no clue what dh_python2 is?
<snap-l> dhh_python2 is python written by dhh. ;)
<brousch> that does not help me
<rick_h_> dh = debian helper
<rick_h_> dh_XXX are helpers for debian packaging
<rick_h_> db_python2 means a tool to help packaging python2
<rick_h_> well, python2 packages
<rick_h_> http://old.nabble.com/Transitioning-Python-2-helpers-to-dh_python2-td31812316.html
<rick_h_> dh_python2 is the new goodness and we
<rick_h_> want to transition all our Python 2 packages to use it.
<brousch> ok
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83256217174147072 man it just gets crazier
<brousch> probably looking for snap-l's old links
<rick_h_> hah, "you've been shown to have links to copyright material, we own your ass now!"
<brousch> rick_h_: you're next!
<rick_h_> doh!
<jrwren> haha.
<snap-l> What the fuck?
<snap-l> That's insane
<jrwren> well, that is a good example of why you don't run everything on 1 hosting company. at least not if its gonna cost you $$4
<jrwren> i wonder if that could happen to dropbox or evernote
<snap-l> That would suck though if they raided pinboard.in because ther ewas a link to something surreptitious.
<snap-l> you want to talk about pain in the ass
<rick_h_> snap-l: I doubt it, I was more being funny
<snap-l> Still... :)
<rick_h_> from a twitter search the whole thing is sounding shady as can be
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/srhea/status/83232931413372928
<snap-l> Steve jackson Games lost their computers back in the 1990s because they were writing a book called Cyberpunk
<snap-l> Was the catalyst for the EFF
<snap-l> Oh damn
<rick_h_> between that and the earlier: https://twitter.com/#!/curbednetwork/status/83171089429168128
<rick_h_> seems like someone is running with some cash
<brousch> or is in FBI interrogation
<brousch> they took ar phones!
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well I'd think they'd still be in customer records/phone
<rick_h_> now, available to answer is another matter
<brousch> probably voip and the fbi took the voip servers
<snap-l> I love the plea for hosting now
<snap-l> for pinboard
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> take 2
<snap-l> as if learning isn't an option
<brousch> it's fun to commit and push code
<brousch> i've never really done it before
<_stink_> did a pinboard competitor call in an anonymous tip to the FBI?
<_stink_> AHEM
<rick_h_> time for me to head home
<_stink_> we won't tell
<snap-l> he
<snap-l> hey, stop that man!
<brousch> by "head home" you really mean "flee to mexico"?
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> I just figured out why Firefox went with a 3 month release
<snap-l> The IE cake
<snap-l> Now they can get quarterly cake
<brousch> damn good plan
<brousch> if they release every 0.1 seconds they might be able to bankrupt MS via cake expenses
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> the cake is funny
<jrwren> i think css animations and keeping up with ie10 beta is more likely the reason.
<jrwren> IMO it will be *bad* if IE actually has more features than FF again.
<jrwren> now if only FF would ship with a "use native codecs" for its html video
<snap-l> if only IE++ would use web standard. ;)
<brousch> but nobody uses ie 8 or 9. if you're using ie it's because you're stuck on 6 or 7 for badly-written business apps. otherwise you've moved on
<binbrain> brousch: badly written business apps microsoft office online, which only supports IE for the full feature set
<binbrain> ...business apps <like> microsoft...
<snap-l> binbrain: Like is a strong word
<snap-l> Business Apps require a standard like a tape worm requires a stomach to inhabit
<snap-l> and IE is just such a tape-worm
<jrwren> snap-l: not sure what you mean.
<jrwren> Ie9 and IE10 are really damned good.
<jrwren> is there a way to tell vim to remove teh swp after you tell it to recover?
<snap-l> Yeah, you can tell it to delete
<snap-l> that will remove the swap
<snap-l> Trying to remain calm, but every time I see an image with a blog post that has nothing to do with the blog post, I want to smack someone.
<snap-l> "I want to talk about the Ubuntu Community Process for a moment... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bellaphon/4543714593/"
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: that has everything to do with the Ubuntu Community Process.
<devinheitmueller> It's a social commentary!
<snap-l> "It really drives me insane http://www.flickr.com/photos/ninjatactics/397128807/"
<snap-l> http://victorpalau.net/2011/06/21/ubuntu-hardware-debugging-hard-problems/
<snap-l> That's the latest one that set me off
<devinheitmueller> The Ubuntu Community is like a fast food burger.  The bun is the core code that makes up the product, and the users are like the meaty center!
<snap-l> http://victorpalau.net/2011/06/02/ubuntu-certification-dell-poweredge-servers/ <- THis is much better
<snap-l> This tells me "Hey, there's eomthing in there about servers, and - oh look! - it's about Dell servers!
<snap-l> and not "Oh, look, there's two people looking over a piece of lighting equipment. Maybe this is about lighting. Hey, the one guy has a book. Maybe it's something about how to repair your lighting equipment with a manual?"
<Wolfger> devinheitmueller: So you're saying the core code is a lot of empty calories, and the users are fatty?
<snap-l> If the double-down fits. ;)
<devinheitmueller> Wolfger: Yes, and the ketchup is the blood of all the users who tried to install Ubuntu and failed miserably.
<devinheitmueller> I knew somebody who spent a few minutes could come up with a more absurd metaphor than I initially suggested.
<rick_h_> jrwren: call me when IE gets geolocation support, and that webgl stuff is a cop-out if I've ever heard one
<snap-l> Ah, ketchup can be abstracted further. The crushed tomato paste is the hopes and aspirations of those looking for working wireless drivers, mixed together with the vinegar of Broadcom drivers
<jrwren> snap-l: but... but... jeff atwood is a top blogger!  (re: image that has nothing to do with it)
<snap-l> Adding a pinch of salt to the would to taste.
<jrwren> rick_h_: i thought ie had geoloc
<rick_h_> did it make it to 10?
<rick_h_> I know 9 didn't
<jrwren> must be in 10.
<jrwren> i thought 9 had it.
<jrwren> http://diveintohtml5.org/geolocation.html says 9.0+
<rick_h_> http://blogs.captechconsulting.com/blog/andy-pemberton/ie9-w3c-geolocation-support
<rick_h_> ah ok
<rick_h_> cool then, nvm on that one
<rick_h_> I missed it making it in after ^^ stuff
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-22
<rick_h_> crap, no krondor around
<brousch> http://www.flickr.com/photos/brousch/sets/72157626892642245/
<brousch> we're hit!
<rick_h_> ouch!
<brousch> no leaks yet
<snap-l> Time to make some phonecalls
<snap-l> brousch: At least you and the family are safe?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> my photo was on woodtv8
<snap-l> http://twitpic.com/5exl8m
<snap-l> brousch: Yay? :)
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h_> android peeps, how do I install a new clockwork when it's not working from within rom manager?
<rick_h_> so manually?
<rick_h_> everyone says "install through rom manager"
<rick_h_> it says it did it, but when I reboot it's still 2.5.0.1
<rick_h_> dammit, verizon needs an official google phone
<greg-g> whoa, the regional radar looks messy!
<jjesse> brousch has trees on his house
<greg-g> eek!
<greg-g> brousch: so sorry man! good luck with that!
<rick_h_> please don't let me have bricked my phone
<rick_h_> kthx
<brousch> rick_h_: there is another technique i have to use have the time
<brousch> sprecovery i think it's called http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Motorola_Droid:_Full_Update_Guide
<brousch> put rom on root of sd and boot it funky
<rick_h_> yea trying that
<rick_h_> well, the radio tried that
<greg-g> quiet morning
<brousch> too quiet
<brousch> maybe they all got crushed by trees
<brousch> i was saved by my timely rerouting of auxiliary power to my house's structural integrity field
<greg-g> brousch: well done, ensign
<rick_h_> ok, it'll get loud now, at the dealership pre-travel
<rick_h_> I can complain about car dealerships and prices
<rick_h_> however the waiting area is nice, double desk, power strip, and wifi
<rick_h_> where's our BB fans when we need them http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2011/06/22/rim-cuts-internal-playbook-sales-estimates-by-more-than-half/?awesm=tnw.to_19Q7r&utm_content=spreadus&utm_medium=tnw.to-other&utm_source=direct-tnw.to
<rick_h_> bah, sorry bad linkage
<brousch> fans? plural?
<brousch> there's more than just tjagoda now?
<rick_h_> oh sorry, thought we had a pair of them
<brousch> you think they're like sith? there's always 2?
<rick_h_> very likely
<rick_h_> so how's the shield holding up?
<brousch> no leaks
<rick_h_> wow, pinboard story gets better
<rick_h_> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto
<brousch> i get to call insurance this morning to see if they'll rescue us
<rick_h_> FBI yanked 3 racks for lulzsec?
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, good luck man
<brousch> yeah, i saw that. slightly more sympathetic now
<brousch> though it seems like they would have redundant servers in another facility
<brousch> oooh, python on your phone, but you have to use meego http://wiki.meego.com/Harmattan_Python
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> lulzsec is just getting everyone, and some people they didn't even target!
<brousch> We have an ubuntu-us-mi meeting scheduled for July 3. I won't be able to attend due to fireworks. Could we move it?
<greg-g> sounds reasonable
<greg-g> I'll be IRC-less the Sunday before and the Sunday after :/
<brousch> maybe saturday
<snap-l> Yeah, I think we should move it to the next weekend
<snap-l> since having it on the holiday weekend is just asking for no participation
<brousch> we could do middle of the week
<brousch> tuesday
<Wolfger> crazy talk
<brousch> wednesday. rollit into ubuntu hour/chc
<snap-l> I was thinking of just moving it to the 10th
<snap-l> frankly, I think we'd get more participation during the week, but then you run into folks that can't get access to IRC via work
<Wolfger> if you roll it into UH/CHC, too much will be said IRL and not IRC
<greg-g> I could do tuesday the 5th or *possibly* sunday the 10th
<brousch> well really if 90% of the irc attendees are at uh/chc then it's a pretty good meeting
<brousch> snap-l: it's at 9pm, i don't see what work has to do with it
<snap-l> I was thinking we could just have it during the day. :)
<snap-l> frankly, there's enough folks online during the day that we might have better meetings
<snap-l> but then you get into excluding those that don't have good network access from work
<greg-g> personally, my vote would be 8pm on Tuesday the 5th
<snap-l> although Wolfger somehow manages to get out Hogans Heroes style.
<brousch> greg-g: that works for me
<snap-l> Same here
<brousch> make it so!
 * greg-g edits the LoCoDir
<greg-g> brousch: wait, you just went from an ensign to captain? nice!
<brousch> saying make it so doesn't make me the captain
<snap-l> Anyone want to submit a bug for the micro blogging spam?
<snap-l> Because I will
<Wolfger> snap-l: I see nothink!
<greg-g> snap-l: please do
<greg-g> I'll bitch... I mean, confirm it
<greg-g> this should be updated correctly http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/79/detail/
 * greg-g eamils the mailing list
<rick_h_> crap, still can't get my phone to boot
<rick_h_> this isn't good :/
<greg-g> :(
<brousch> rick_h_: did you try sprecovery?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, I peeked at the link you sent and it seemed like what I was doing now except for the droid
<brousch> ok
<brousch> i think you rename the rom to update.something, then run sprecovery and update through it
<brousch> sometimes it will even see update.rom on your sd card, grab it, and install it by itself
<rick_h_> right, and I've still got the clockwork recovery rom on my phone
<rick_h_> and can install from zip
<rick_h_> but it's off
<brousch> did you try renaming it?
<rick_h_> I can't update clockwork itself, or the radio which started all this
<rick_h_> and just tried manually installed cyanogen again which isn't loading
<brousch> put the cyanogenmod rom on it instead of clockwork
<rick_h_> clockwork is the recovery
<rick_h_> not the rom
<brousch> have you tried your non-CM mod?
<brousch> like vendor's rom or rooted vendor version of regular rom?
 * greg-g sent email
<rick_h_> ty greg-g
<rick_h_> brousch: not yet, I'm thinking the problem is the lower level so far and I know I've had cyanogen on here going before
<rick_h_> so working with what I know worked before
<brousch> yeah, i had some sweaty times getting roms on this phone
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/800676
<brousch> finally got clockwork actually working right
<brousch> snap-l: confirmed
<snap-l> tx
<greg-g> I hate it when other people make me look like a liar
<greg-g> welcome to the channel, gppl :)
<greg-g> ignore my liar comment, it was something work related that I just wanted to rant about :)
<gppl> Hello
<rick_h_> ranting can be good :)
<brousch> greg-g: name and address? we'll take care of the problem for you
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> brousch: see PM
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_> krondor: I *think* I am in this boat: http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/6433-solved-messed-up-partitions-on-internal-storage/
<rick_h_> and had some parted fun on there which seems to have gotten rid of the errors with the cache
<brousch> hm, i have had to reformat the card and clear all caches
<brousch> i forgot about that
<rick_h_> ooh, have a cyanogen boot screen now
<rick_h_> that's closer than I've been since last night
<rick_h_> 9:38, see how long it runs for
<krondor> rick_h_: wow that's some level of hosed up partitions :) seems like the thread has the answer though
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, I'm back in now cyanogen
<rick_h_> I still can't figureout why I can't load any radio/clockwork images though :/
<brousch> ouch, he actually repartitioned his internal memory?
<rick_h_> it finds the file in hboot
<rick_h_> and loads, checking PB31IMG.zip
<rick_h_> and then just drops to hboot menu
<rick_h_> crap need to activate the phone
<rick_h_> program it...hope this works
<krondor> which radio were you trying?  2.15.10.05.06?  did you md5 it?
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I hate that as well
<rick_h_> krondor: so I tried the latest two
<rick_h_> md5'd everything
<rick_h_> even roms and such
<rick_h_> also tried a new clockwork, I'm stuck on 2.5 something
<rick_h_> rom manager says I had updated to 3.0.8 but when I booted into recovery it was still 2.5
<rick_h_> and whenI tried to load the md5 checked new clockwork same fail
<rick_h_> I'm working on getting set back up now, working on the backup/restore part
<rick_h_> so looks like I've at least got phone calls back
<greg-g> yay! the phone can make calls now! :)
<krondor> ok, hmm, a couple of things the SD card is fat32 formatted right?  When you tried rom manager did you have it set to erase recovery before flashing recovery?
<greg-g> sorry, that is the one thing that I'm not looking forward to with a smart phone when I get it, all the effing around I'll be doing and potential breakedness I cause :)
<rick_h_> krondor: yes on both accounts
<krondor> I'm thinking maybe you could try flashing to another recovery (anon_ra) then flashing back to see what occurs.  It's not surprising that the recovery isn't coming down, when you tried the radio flash you used fastboot right?
<krondor> pb31img file would include a recovery, is why it isn't surprising I meant
<rick_h_> ok so fastboot I can't figureout
<rick_h_> seems to be a command, but I don't have that ocmmand
<rick_h_> it's an option from hboot screen
<rick_h_> but that just seems to boot the phone
<rick_h_> I tried to just put the file on the sd card, boot into hboot, and it checks, see the file, loads it, and then does a check on it...and that must fail because it dumps back to hboot menu
<krondor> yeah it should prompt you along the lines of update found press power to apply or some such.  It seems that hboot isn't able to interpret the file as an update for some reason
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> bah humbug, had hoped after all this I might get gps back on accident
<rick_h_> so much for that plan
<krondor> yeah I have a meeting to run to, I'd try pinging someone in #cyanogenmod and see if anyone's seen it
<rick_h_> thanks, no biggie. Was more freaked out last night when I couldn't get it to boot
<rick_h_> at least I'm back where I started
<rick_h_> thanks for the help
<jcastro> snap-l: I need your help
<jcastro> I want to use a Rush lyric for my Unity report title
<snap-l> jcastro: What can I do to help:?
<jcastro> but I need something punny
<snap-l> What's the gist of the report?
<jcastro> right now it's this cheesy sounding "Calm before the storm"
<jcastro> basically, boring crap is going on
<jcastro> but it will get awesome soon
<snap-l> Give me a sec.
<snap-l> Was thinking something from marathon, but that's not going to work
 * jcastro checks out red sector a 
<snap-l> Dude, no
<snap-l> Holocaust song != calm before the storm
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> oh wow
<jcastro> is that what that is
<jcastro> I thought it was about guys stuck in prison in the future
<snap-l> Um, no
<snap-l> It's kinda about Geddy's family.
<snap-l> http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?showtopic=95
<jcastro> wow, I had no idea
<snap-l> Maybe not directly, but yeah
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sector_A
<jcastro> oh man
<jcastro> around Beta release Kid Gloves is full of good ones
<snap-l> Most of them are good for beta release. :)
<jcastro> "Like a rare and precious metal beneath a ton of rock"
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> close, too presumptious
<snap-l> You can be the captain
<snap-l> I will draw the chart
<snap-l> Sailing into destiny
<snap-l> Closer to the heart
<jcastro> damn, that would have been good for the first one
<snap-l> Just between us
<snap-l> I think it's time for us to realize
<snap-l> The spaces in between
<snap-l> Leave room for you and I to grow
<snap-l> Entre Nous
<jcastro> got it
<jcastro> "Chip away the stone"
<jcastro> from carve away the stone
<snap-l> Um, it's about Sisyphus. :)
<snap-l> Who never gets the stone up the hill
<jcastro> well, this IS about linux
<jcastro> ok, this gets me off the hook
<jcastro> I will try to pay attention to the lyrics from now on
<snap-l> Roll away the stone
<snap-l> (Sisyhpus)
<snap-l> Roll away the stone
<snap-l> If you could just move yours
<snap-l> I could get working on my own
<jcastro> hahaha
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> that's so deep there
<snap-l> Neil is an awesome lyricist
<snap-l> They're like the fourth member of the band
<jcastro> yeah
<snap-l> I love how he was voted the worst lyricist by Blender Magazine
<snap-l> and that they still to this day ask the band about Ayn Rand
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> I think her influence waned in the band long after 2112.
<jcastro> ok call, bbl
<snap-l> laterness
<rick_h_> geeze, I'm in the wrong business
<rick_h_> should have gone into car repair
<rick_h_> they keep coming in here telling person after person "you've got xxx, that'll be $1500..."
<rick_h_> "oh, we found you've got yyy...$2500"
<Wolfger> kind of like computer repair.... except that doesn't really exist much anymore
<rick_h_> yea, these days people just buy new ones
<rick_h_> kind of crazy
<Wolfger> Well, the low end computer is cheaper than repair rates, and likely better overall than the computer you have. For desktops, at any rate
<Wolfger> Printers... don't get me started.
<Wolfger> "we ran out of toner. Buy a new printer, it's cheaper than the toner cartridge."
<rick_h_> best thing I ever did, nice HP laserject and forgot what colors look like
<brousch> i print 90% of my stuff at work in B&W, and 10% at home in color
<rick_h_> this is kind of crazy: widox Blazeix _stink_ check out the dotted line: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-monthly-201005-201105
<Wolfger> snap-l: You read Aaron Griffin's Buzz?
<snap-l> Wolfger: Not to my knowledge. :)
<Wolfger> http://classics.tumblr.com/post/6778298388
<snap-l> Wolfger: Heh. :)
<Wolfger> and I suppose that's for jcastro too....
<Wolfger> any of you metalheads
<_stink_> rick_h_: you think that recent increase is mobile or something?
<rick_h_> no, check out the chrome versions 9/10
<rick_h_> note chrome is current stable at 12, beta/alpha at 13 I believe
<_stink_> ahh ok
<rick_h_> 9 & 10 just cliff off the map
<rick_h_> amazing how auto updating keeps people on the latest version
<rick_h_> and it's so fast that the people doing these charts can't add version number checks fast enough
<rick_h_> just says "unknown browser"
<rick_h_> but directly matches the prev chrome cliffs
<rick_h_> really makes you think about auto updating apps, if you don't want to support legacy, make it invisible
<jrwren> get into oracle and EMC.  "oh, we found you've got yyy... $1,500,500"  "You've got xxx, that'll be $300,000"
<snap-l> Well, it starts me wondering about the bad ol' days of browser locking
<rick_h_> browser locking?
<snap-l> where you have to use FF 2 because someone didn't get around to updating the site or coding for standards.
<snap-l> "We've tested on Chrome 9, FF 3.6, and ..."
<rick_h_> well the thing is that these days it breaks for a large enough % of users you have to fix
<snap-l> rick_h_: You work for a company, right ? :)
<rick_h_> yep, but it's not like we're doing activex crap
<rick_h_> <div> still works just fine :P
<snap-l> "It's not the fault of my code, it's your browser."
<rick_h_> right, but you can't say that because it's not like the browsers are 5%
<snap-l> "Extensively tested against (geriatric browser)"
<snap-l> I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying that's the kind of bullshit that unfortunately gets thrown about
<snap-l> They finally upgraded IE to 8 on my work machine
<rick_h_> woo, now you have crappy dev tools!
<jrwren> i'm still on ie7 on a client machine
<snap-l> Yeah, and two months ago, it was still IE6
<rick_h_> I'm supporting IE6 for staples
<snap-l> Of course the caveats were that some internal sites will break
<rick_h_> so understand it all of course
 * Wolfger shudders
<Wolfger> die, IE6, die!
<snap-l> I'm hopeful that folks will code to standards so the version number and browser won't matter
<rick_h_> I wish...but really, these days the gap between IE6 and 8 aren't enough for my tastes
<snap-l> but unfortunately I can see knee-jerk reactions in browser lock-down
<rick_h_> snap-l: right, that's pat of what I think this rapid FF/Chrome release stuff gets
<rick_h_> you can't lock down, they move too fast
<rick_h_> but also think it provides some insight into your own developed apps
<snap-l> So companies move back to what is more stable
<rick_h_> the success of the chrome auto update is crazy
 * rick_h_ looks at our server team moving to centos5 and nods
<rick_h_> I guess fortunately a lot of our stuff is client facing
<rick_h_> we don't have that luxury
<jrwren> i only consider ie9, chrome 9+, and ff4+. everything else is dead to me.
<jrwren> oh wait... and... and... iphone safari
<rick_h_> except for your ie7 client :P
<jrwren> i don't do webdev for them.
<jrwren> hell... i don't do webdev for anyone but me.
<brousch> you mean there's dev other than web and mobile?!
<jrwren> yup
<brousch> is it cobol?
<rick_h_> ok, four hours in I'm regretting waiting for the car to get done
<snap-l> rick_h_: What was wrong with the car?
<snap-l> And are you at the dealership?
<greg-g> I know the answer to #2 is yes
<rick_h_> 30k milage overhaul
<rick_h_> and a slow leaking tire
<snap-l> And that's a four hor tour?
<rick_h_> at 29k about to head to VA, so figure it's time to get the big service done
<snap-l> hour tour, rather?
<rick_h_> yea, plugs, wires, the whole shebang
<rick_h_> 4-5 hours she says
<snap-l> You're fucking kidding me
<greg-g> "a three hour tour... a three hour tour"
<snap-l> If they charge you an hour for replacing the fuel filter, that's crap
<jrwren> wtf do you do at 30k?
<jrwren> at 30k a car is brand fucking new IMO. I do nothing to it.
<snap-l> my bro-in-law had one changed faster than a magician's trick
<jrwren> plugs and wires at 100k
<snap-l> jrwren: ++
<snap-l> unless they're melted.
<jrwren> right, but why would they be melted?
<snap-l> I'm just using as a for-instance.
<jrwren> right, and if for-instance they were melted, I'd be selling that thing, cuz something is wrong if they be melted cables :)
<snap-l> Nah, that's just a recall. ;)
<rick_h_> oh,also had her checking hte brakes
<snap-l> rick_h_: But yeah, I've been at the dealership before for over 3 hours
<rick_h_> http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_maintenance.html column 30
<snap-l> there's only so much day-time TV you can watch before going insane.
<rick_h_> well working
<snap-l> Half-working
<rick_h_> writen a node.js socket server, got my phone running, and starting to peer at this book R in a nutshell
<rick_h_> yea, half working, true
<jrwren> yeah, GM Goodwrench has the same b.s. recommendations.
<snap-l> because some idiot over there is shouting a conversation to someone on the phone as if they were on Mars
<snap-l> Subaru is GM (or was)
<jrwren> never.
<jrwren> GM had a 20% stake.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I drive it hard though, I know I'm due brakes, ready for a tune up, and might need tires
<jrwren> ah, well if you drive hard, then I do get it.
<rick_h_> yea, don't ever recall subaru/gm playing together
<jrwren> I drive like grandpa most of the time.
<rick_h_> yea, I beat on my cars and ask for no forgiveness
<rick_h_> it's like my laptops. Buy good stuff, hammer away, and try to take care of it
<snap-l> I just drive until something falls off
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I did that in my poor school days
<jrwren> i'm pretty much with snap-l
<snap-l> The car lets me know when it needs maintenance. :)
<rick_h_> a 4 rotor replacement once taught mea good lesson
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ouch
<jrwren> with minor preventative, like plugs and cables at 100k
<jrwren> i'm still in poor employed days
<snap-l> I drove Ford vehicles. Getting to 100K was a challenge before the Transmission lunched at 60k
<rick_h_> well, I'm better able to do a small brake job now vs asking them how far they can turn the rotors
<jrwren> snap-l: lol. maybe you could change alegiance.
<rick_h_> my last subie went 150k-ish
<jrwren> afterall, Ford is a MSFT lover.
<jrwren> I drive a chevy mid-size. rotors are cheap :)
<snap-l> jrwren: I did. Had an Alero before I bought my Dodge Caliber.
<jrwren> I love my wife's Alerao.
<jrwren> Alero
<jrwren> wow, finger really wants to type era at the end of that word.
<snap-l> GM Makes great beater cars.
<jrwren> indeed.
<jrwren> cheap parts FTW
<jrwren> but I mean I really like my wifes alero. its very comfortable. it rides nice, even at high speeds. get great milage.
<rick_h_> yay, don't need new tires
<rick_h_> and they say brakes are a 6/10 hmmm, wonder what number the change them at
<jrwren> 0
<rick_h_> lol
<Wolfger> depends on the greed of the mechanic...
<rick_h_> I guess I'm just sensitive
<Wolfger> 9/10: You need new brakes!
<rick_h_> when I start noticing the difference I want to fix it/change it out
<rick_h_> tires are good, but man they weren't as good as those triple treads I had on my last subaru so I want to change them out
<rick_h_> as my wife says, I'm "too easily displeased"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yes.
<snap-l> ;)
<Wolfger> No! :-o
<Wolfger> I can't believe that.
<rick_h_> hah! I know...can you believe she thinks that!
<waldo323_> is tonight's chc an early one?
<rick_h_> no, next week's
<rick_h_> but I won't be here for it
<waldo323_> ok
<rick_h_> so it's all on snap-l to host
<rick_h_> and bring cookies
<waldo323_> bah
<waldo323_> oh wait cookies!
<waldo323_> haha
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> rick_h_: whose tripple treads did you have?
<jrwren> I loved my goodyear assurance tripple tread, but they are LOUD. I think next time I'll get something more standard to try to reduce road noise.
<snap-l> Oh this is awesome
<snap-l> listening to FLOSS Weekly, and apparently something is making Bradley Kuhn sound like a chipmunk
<snap-l> http://twit.am/listen.m3u
<snap-l> Apparently it's only a certain combination
<snap-l> Still, amused me.
<binbrain> any python headz have experience profiling multithreaded apps?
<snap-l> binbrain: Not personally
<jrwren> i thought python threads were still fake because of the GIL
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/39371
<snap-l> This is messed up
<snap-l> If I ever do a post-apocalyptic movie, it'll have a scene with this album playing in the background on an old 78rpm grammophone.
<snap-l> I really don't like industrial music that I can fast-forward through and still keep a beat going as if nothing happened
<snap-l> http://viralconspiracyrecords.bandcamp.com/album/dj-freak-the-beauty-of-harmony-aka-dark-room-distorzion
<snap-l> Nor do I like music that sounds like your drum machine is having sex with a jackhammer.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I had a set of good year triple treads I loved on my old subie
<jrwren> rick_h_: "Assurance" ?
<rick_h_> don't recall tbh
<rick_h_> they might have been loud, put them on post 100k miles so the car had more road noise than new by that time
<jrwren> yeah, maybe that is just my issue. my car is old
<rick_h_> binbrain: no, haven't messed wiht much multi-threaded
<rick_h_> we tend to be more multi process when we scale out
<snap-l> http://codewalrusproject3.bandcamp.com/track/code-walrus-project-fumaciraptor <- I just like the cover of this album.
<binbrain> rick_h_: obviously multiprocess should be what we're using, but we're not
<rick_h_> binbrain: gotcha
<snap-l> Holy shit, I just hit awesome.
<snap-l> http://neurotech.bandcamp.com/
<jrwren> as in it sounds awesome?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> As in it's the kind of metal that I want for Club Metal.
<rick_h_> jrwren: are you a bookmark guy? I don't remember if I checked with you if you wanted a bookie account to help test on?
<jrwren> i would love to try bookie
<rick_h_> chrome user?
<jrwren> occasionaly, yes.
<jrwren> FF too
<brousch> a bookmark guy?
<jrwren> now I just need to migrate my delicious
<brousch> i have 1000 bookmarks, i just don't share them
<rick_h_> brousch: right, but do you search them?
<rick_h_> do you view them from multiple devices?
<brousch> chrome does that
<rick_h_> does what?
<rick_h_> search? not like bookie :)
<brousch> syncs them to my computers
<rick_h_> right, but not mobile, not machines you don't own
<brousch> i don't really search them
<rick_h_> but yea, understand
<rick_h_> if you're happy cool
<rick_h_> it's not for everyone by any means
<brousch> don't get me wrong, i want to start doing that
<brousch> i just haven't in the past
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/8iy6b
<rick_h_> oh my eyes!!! the burning!!!
<brousch> 8 hours? send me an email when it's done
<rick_h_> no kidding, why oh why is this running against the web server
<rick_h_> and "is there a standard pylons way of handling this?"
<rick_h_> no, http was not meant for 8hours of spinning in front of a user lol
<brousch> well fix it!
<brousch> obviously there is demand for that feature
<brousch> wtf http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Princess-the-Penis/RJ-Silver/e/2940011151934/?cds2Pid=29905
<rick_h_> someone's rich
<rick_h_> there must be a bunch of people curious enough to go wtf...I have to know...and buy it
<brousch> but it's free
<brousch> and the description sounds terrible
<brousch> i just totally ripped off rick_h_'s CHC reminder
<brousch> snap-l: i'm enjoying neurotech
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome. :)
<rick_h_> as always, RT <3 appreciated: https://twitter.com/#!/BookieBmarks/status/83637219847454720
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-23
<snap-l> Hello again
<rick_h_> party!
<snap-l> Hello, Ubuntu Hourers.
<snap-l> Hours D'ourves?
<rick_h_> mpiccinato: http://npmjs.org/
<brousch> learning sqlalchemy and flask-sqlalchemy
<rick_h_> awesome
<rick_h_> we had a SA discussion earlier
<rick_h_> crap, we might lose our Detroit in the UH:CHC name :(
<rick_h_> knew that would come back to bite me
<widox> rick_h_: why's that?
<rick_h_> group around wayne state wants to start up in july
<rick_h_> wonder if they can have dtw since they're actually dtw
<widox> ah
<widox> change us to detroit-metro
<rick_h_> yea, I hit them back with the idea of making the /detroit.html page a combo
<rick_h_> that linked to new north/south/west/east or something
<rick_h_> because I've been sharing that /detoit.html link for 2yrs
<rick_h_> we'll see how it goes
<snap-l> Bah
<rick_h_> copied you on my reply snap-l
<snap-l> just because they're in Detroit doesn't mean they should have the Detroit name.
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> well there's also down river
<rick_h_> naw, I knew when I did it I was cheating hard core
<rick_h_> trying to match up to AA
<rick_h_> and want to encourage new ones to sprout up, though honestly, we're the most active of them all
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Yeah, it happens
<_stink_> wait someoue around WSU wants to do something?
<_stink_> someone
<_stink_> hard to believe
<snap-l> Blame ColonelPanic001
<snap-l> He's the instigator
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, new CHC by you
<_stink_> oh THAT guy?
<_stink_> geez
<rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1041857
<snap-l> We won't rock the boat.  We'll go with Detroit Midtown. We're hoping to attract Wayne State students and activate the TechTown area.
<snap-l> Could even go "Detroit Downtown"
<rick_h_> yea, we'll see. anyway, sleepy time
<rick_h_> _stink_: still need to see if you can ColonelPanic001 want bmark.us accounts or not
<rick_h_> I'll ping you guys tomorrow probably
<rick_h_> then shut it down for travel time wheeee
<greg-g> g'morning
<greg-g> I'm going to start racing rick_h_ to get the first bookmark of the day on bmark.us :)
<greg-g> he won today, but, I will win one of these days!
<_stink_> morning
 * Wolfger swoops in and ninjas the first bmark tomorrow
<Wolfger> morning greg-g and _stink_
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah! I thought that this morning
<rick_h_> checked it, nothing on there for today
<jcastro> smoser:
<jcastro> hey when is this cloud thing again? Like the time frame?
<snap-l> Heh
<Wolfger> the cloud is eternal, innit? ;-)
<snap-l> The cloud is like the community pool
<snap-l> "The cloud will be open from 7am-6pm, M-F"
<snap-l> "Down for maintenance from 1pm-2pm"
<snap-l> "Adult Swim from 7pm-10pm"
<rick_h_> greg-g: actaully, that makes me think of the badges stuff
<rick_h_> 'early bird badge, first bookmark of the day
<rick_h_> 'wikipedia time vortex, 5 consecutive bookmarks from wikipedia'
<greg-g> dude! yes!
<rick_h_> 'techcunch ninny bookmarking a techcrunch bookmark for 5 straight days'
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Oh God.
<rick_h_> and we just lost snap-l as a user
<snap-l> If you want a collection of shit bookmarks, this is the way to get it. :)
<rick_h_> bah, everyone already has a collection of crap :P
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> this would just make it a badge of honor
<greg-g> also, you can design the badges to encourage the behavior you want
<rick_h_> 'video wannabe: 10 youtube bookmarks in a week'
<Wolfger> The "nothing to see here" badge, bookmarking Slashdot instead of the parent article.
<snap-l> Jukebox: 10 bookmarks from Jamendo / Bandcamp. :)
<rick_h_> anyway, not that there's time to do that any time soon, but greg made me think of it
<rick_h_> funny stuff
<brousch> that would add to the social aspects
<brousch> then you have to integrate facebook and twitter so people can post their badges
<rick_h_> ok, this is crap: http://uploads.mitechie.com/va_weather.png.png
<brousch> you weren't planning on being outside were you?
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> guess not now
<Wolfger> Bah.
<Wolfger> scattered and isolated
<Wolfger> man up and get out there
<snap-l> I don't know what this conference call is that I'm on, but it sounded like I leveled up when the chairperson arrived
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<snap-l> badoop
<jjesse> lol
<jjesse> i love conference calls :)
<snap-l> This one came out of the blue, and has about a million participants
<snap-l> I hope everyone has mute, otherwise this will be hell
<jjesse> whats that youtube video of the comedian doing the conference call, i'm always reminded of that when i join a call w/ a lot of attendees
<snap-l> I have no idea why I'm a part of this meeting
<snap-l> Has something to do with a department that I have no dealings with at all
<Wolfger> snap-l: You're back at Chrysler???
<snap-l> Wolfger: Feels like it
<Wolfger> I hate those meetings
<snap-l> There's several players that are apparently important
<snap-l> and there's feedback loop
<Wolfger> We have one guy at this plant who always repeats the last sentence somebody said....
<Wolfger> I can't decide if he's "active listening", or just a parrot
<snap-l> Both
<snap-l> A parrot has to listen very carefully to mimic what they're hearing
<snap-l> Yay, it sounds like a re-org.
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> And now the smoke-up-the-ass part of the announcement
<snap-l> And now the reassurance
<snap-l> I swear, every manager has the same playbook
<jjesse> they all go to the same class
<snap-l> They could compress these so much better.
<snap-l> John: #43. Nick: Oh, definitely #67
<jjesse> just do it over twitter so they have only 140 characters to announce things
<snap-l> Bahahaha. Someone just piped up that there's 178 people on the call, and not just leadership
<jjesse> d'oh
<snap-l> ie: don't freak out the workerbees with the direct face of insanity.
<snap-l> "Please keep delivering"
<snap-l> Sheesh
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQIPVqLMUg
<snap-l> I'm getting the feeling that I should be feeling like my cat died
<snap-l> but frankly I have NFC what this means.
<rick_h_> meh, it was a cat...who cares
<snap-l> Jesus, and someone just tried to get his own answer for his own team
<snap-l> That word, execution... I think it doesn't mean what you think it means.
<snap-l> Bah, now for 20 minutes of parroting from the direct reports.
<snap-l> And we're done
<Wolfger> 178 people on a conf call? That's insane
<Wolfger> Heh. http://diveintomark.org/archives/2011/06/17/come-on-gruber-youre-better-than-this
<jcastro> jrwren: the SE podcast this week is /excellent/.
<smoser> jcastro, that cloud thing is tomorrow 8am-noon
<smoser> i'd pick you up 7:15 return you by 2:00 i guess
<jcastro> sounds good probably.
<jcastro> let me clear it with my boss.
<rick_h_> FF5 feels a bit better than 4 did here it seems
<Voodoo_> Anyone have any experience with 'upstart' ? and how it works?
<_stink_> i just remember reading about it and being confused.
<rick_h_> not really, just created a script to start up uwsgi using it: http://docs.bmark.us/hosting.html#uwsgi-config
<Voodoo_> yea.. the documentation is a little much..
<rick_h_> but grabbed that from an example someone else had done
<Voodoo_> looks like a replacement for anacron, cron, init.. But not sure where it really 'resides'.  like is /sbin/init now 'upstart' ?
<Voodoo_> looks like the kernel calls /sbin/init, which reads /etc/event.d/* although I don't know how it knows which runlevel to go into..
<rick_h_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/amd64/upstart/filelist
<rick_h_> that might help a bit
<rick_h_> you can see it really it a lot of parts
<Voodoo_> oh yea.. good idea..  looks like it replaces almost everything for startup.  so .. it is init. :)
<brousch> oh nice. i can copy EPUB files to the nook color and they just work
<snap-l> brousch: Most devices work that way. :)
<snap-l> It's only Apple that obfuscates this
<brousch> i thought i'd have to go through some converter or something
<rick_h_> well and no epub on kindle :(
<brousch> it apparently reads MS Word and Excel too
<brousch> and pdf
<brousch> heh, and html
<brousch> oh, and it's in color ;)
<rick_h_> overrated :P
<Voodoo_> hows the battery life on the color nook?
<Voodoo_> color's nice for diagrams..
<brousch> i get 2 or 3 days with moderate usage
<brousch> color's nice for kids' books too
<Voodoo_> that's not too bad..
<brousch> and for web brwosing
<Voodoo_> can you adjust the display brightness to gain more life?
<brousch> yeah
<Voodoo_> cool.
<brousch> i had it turned almost all the way down reading in the dark last night
<brousch> i got a cover that includes a sort of stand. perfect for reading while eating
<jrwren> jcastro: "SE Podcast" ?
<jcastro> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/06/se-podcast-09/
<jcastro> jrwren: ^
<jrwren> ah, i haven't listened in a long time.
<jrwren> thank you jcastro
<snap-l> wb nixternal
<rick_h_> he's alive?!
<jcastro> jrwren: this one is quite good, best one yet IMO
<jrwren> I couldn't stand the first few, so I stopped listening. Joel and Jeff just come off as total jerks.
<jrwren> even though I highly respect them both, I still think they seemed like jerks.
<jcastro> heh
<nixternal> thx snap-l
<brousch> intresting. youtube lets you give your uploads a CC license now
<rick_h_> why does this scare me? http://blog.nodejs.org/2011/06/23/porting-node-to-windows-with-microsoft%E2%80%99s-help/
<rick_h_> weren't all the MS devs up in arms already about html on the desktop?
<rick_h_> what are they going to think with JS on the server?
<rick_h_> running google's v8 underneath? this seems like the twilight zone
<krondor> what's that about embrace, extend, something something?  Maybe it's just MS getting a clue, and MS Linux is around the corner.
<rick_h_> I mean, I understood the php assistance/support
<rick_h_> but this just seems so anti everything
<krondor> Windows 9 powered by OSS technology, I mean they need to do something though or they lose the upcoming devs I think
<jrwren> there are a lot of huge JS fans at MSFT
<jrwren> matt podwysocki being brilliant and all.
<jrwren> and bart de smet too
<jrwren> remember silverlight version 1 was JS only.
<rick_h_> heh fun: http://schmichael.com/files/schmongodb/Scaling%20with%20MongoDB%20(with%20notes).pdf
<rick_h_> snap-l: there's your diagram of needing 6 servers for mongo ^^
<snap-l> :(
<snap-l> So essentially this is how to scale MongoDB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDs-x0_rwk
<snap-l> Just keep throwing machines at it
<_stink_> wow
<rick_h_> we need to get one of those shredders
<rick_h_> next CHC is going to be a blast!
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: I love the last few slides
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> "fuck it, we moved to PostgreSQL"
<rick_h_> "we got sloppy, crap works now"
<rick_h_> I know everyone is all NoSQL! and I want to use couch and such for a few things
<rick_h_> but man, it's not a silver bullet
<snap-l> You know the old addage: Fast, Cheap, Good: Pick Two
<snap-l> MongoDB is the following: Fast, Scalable, Reliable: Pick Fast, because we do that really well.
<brousch> wow, where's the mongo hate coming from?
<snap-l> brousch: Experience
<brousch> mongo ate your child?
<snap-l> No, I've just seen a lot of pain from folks using MongoDB
<snap-l> I don't think NoSQL is bad, but I do think CouchDB is more sane about it than MongoDB
<brousch> but allura is mongo!
<_stink_> i still have no clue what NoSQL is.  not that i've tried to learn.
<snap-l> _stink_: Think of NoSQL as a way to store data without having to define the tables for it beforehand
<brousch> it is easy to learn. if you know sql, do the opposite!
<snap-l> like a business card
<snap-l> some business cards have fax numbers on them, some don't
<snap-l> some have 5 mobile numbers
<_stink_> ah, ok
<_stink_> that is kind of illuminating.
<_stink_> how is it different from like a memstore of a data structure?
<_stink_> i guess you can search on it better.
<brousch> structure? we don't need no stinking structure!
<_stink_> or search on it at all.
<rick_h_> _stink_: have to come to CHC some time
<_stink_> yes, true, whether or not to learn about NoSQL :)
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> nosql just means "its not sql"
<jrwren> so LDAP is NOSQL.
<jrwren> sorry, but its true.
<snap-l> jrwren: LDAP is NOFUN either
<brousch> zodb was nosql before nosql was cool
<binbrain> ZODB, also ACID compliant
<jrwren> i thought zodb was an ORM.
<jrwren> and actually backed by sql.
<binbrain> jrwren: no
<binbrain> its a persistent object hash
<binbrain> objects are stored in dicts, and have attributes adapted to them that allow them to contain dicts of other objects
<binbrain> you can control the dicts by adapting them to categories, which is essentially putting an interface around that your object collection must implement, its very OOP in some respects
<rick_h_> yea, zodb has a fan group for sure
<rick_h_> shoot, the old berkleydb stuff was nosql
<binbrain> scales transparently, who wouldn't be a fan
<binbrain> of course, shortcomings, must have the class representation of the original persisted obj to reload it
<binbrain> which can make life hell
<binbrain> migrations have to be thought out, because you need to load the objs, convert, and then repersist
<binbrain> unlike other nosql dbs, zodb is of course tightly coupled to Python, so shortcoming #2, but that's never been a problem for me :)
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> yup, berkleydb, ndb for sure.
<brousch> wow, 8" archos honeycomb tablet, optional 250GB hard drive $279 http://www.droid-life.com/2011/06/23/archos-introduces-two-new-inexpensive-honeycomb-tablets-with-omap4-processors-clocked-at-1-5ghz/
<krondor> a coworker of mine has an older archos tablet, it was cheap too but had some flaws these sound really nice
<jrwren> wow, that is awesome.
<snap-l> Well, having a great day
<snap-l> My boss is moving on
<snap-l> and everyone is blowing smoke that nothing will change for me.
<krondor> 3 out of 4 cluster nodes fail and the SAN guys are hanging out near the rack by chance claiming no problem... hmm curiosity abounds
<snap-l> *sigh*
<jrwren> hey, I just got told that I suck and that I'm doing a shitty job managing this project.
<jrwren> which is true.
<jrwren> but it still ain't fun to hear.
<snap-l> Why do they have a developer managing a project?
<jrwren> excellent question!
<snap-l> I really hate it when that happens
<jrwren> I think what they want is what most people would call a coding "Program Manager"
<jrwren> but I have shitty PM skills
<snap-l> Most good developers do
<jrwren> its also awesome that the person calling me out has only been involved for 13 days.  9 work days. so only 1 iteration of a scrum style dev process
<snap-l> Seriously? That's crap
<krondor> that always happens, I don't know how many PMs I've met that have said "I used to be a Unix Admin, Programmer, or similar" usually with a I should never have taken this job following...
<snap-l> Happened to me at Chrysler.
<snap-l> Usually is a "we don't know what to do with you. You know too much about the system, but we're technically not able to staff this project so you can work on it directly"
<krondor> so the logs have it, 3 of 4 nodes lost their disk with the sbd partition then start voting for a master, the epoc numbers don't match and poison pills are issued.  SAN team comes clean on maintenance to the fabric they're on
<krondor> missing an H in epoch is probably as good a reason as any to call it a short day and do some web browsing
<smoser> greg-g, why must you make work for me
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/etckeeper/+bug/800656
<smoser> can you clarify a bit for me?
<greg-g> smoser: sure, uh, I was prompted by update manager to update, I said update, it gave an error (I forget what the gui one was). I checked the terminal view in update manager and it showed etckeeper complaining about a lock on /etc/
<smoser> what could have caused a lock ?
<greg-g> smoser: you know, I'm not really sure, I can only speculate that I ran an update from the cli and it didn't finish
<greg-g> lemme find my apt logs
<greg-g> I can't find anything that looks like the cause :/
<snap-l> openmetalcast Club Metal Episode #4 catapults you closer to the singularity: http://ur1.ca/4idfc
<snap-l> http://blog.instapaper.com/post/6830514157 <- Holy shit
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-24
<greg-g> rick_h_: http://opensourcebridge.org/2011/wiki/Inviting_Contributors_to_Open_Source_Webdev_through_Virtualization
<jrwren> damn... trying to make heads or tails of bookie, but I'm a clueless n00b
<rick_h_45> what part jrwren?
<rick_h_45> greg-g will check it out thanks
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_droid> party
<rick_h_droid> phew fun drive
<rick_h_droid> snap-l. if you see jrwren can you check on his bookie issue from last night please?
<rick_h_droid> I didn't catch him between stops
<brousch> rick_h_ did you see the manning deal of the day?
<rick_h_droid> no, not hit rss today
<rick_h_droid> oh,  only via email!?
<brousch> maybe
<brousch> machine learning in action
<rick_h_droid> What is it?
<rick_h_droid> lol
<brousch> and mahout in action
<brousch> i think they spy on your conversations to decide the next deal of the day
<rick_h_droid> they must
<brousch> oh, it's both of them for $35. blah
<brousch> you on the road?
<rick_h_droid> yea,  just rolled in
<rick_h_droid> will be in/out for a few
<brousch> ah, Apache's Mahout is scalable machine learning libraries
<brousch> actually it sounds like what you were talking about yesterday
<brousch> recommendation mining, clustering, classification, frequent item mining
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Will do
<snap-l> Damn you, Ben!
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/Daeniken/statuses/84241786968608768
<snap-l> brousch: ^^
<brousch> ahahahahahahah
<brousch> alive and tweeting!
<snap-l> Looks like it's some retweeting bot, though
<snap-l> Just put his name in there, and it'll retweet it
<brousch> now you're on alien-invented his radar
<brousch> whoa, word scramble
<brousch> mine didn't get retweeted
<brousch> oh, but i replied, didn't i
<snap-l> That whole series is cathartic. I don't yell at the TV as much as I yell at it during those shows
<snap-l> Just put his name in there, and it'll repost it verbatim
<snap-l> Which is actually dumb, but gives me an idea... ;)
<brousch> do not abuse the von danniken auto-retweet bot!
<jrwren> rick_h_: bookie... i was looking for a feature similar to delicous's smart bookmarks, but didn't see that exactly, so i figured it could write it... but didn't see a way to add a bookmark from website, so its plugin only, so I looked through plugin source and my JS sucks so I got lost. I'll try again soon.
<brousch> rick_h_ someone is poking at starting a vim group in GR
<snap-l> brousch: that's pretty cool
<Scott_firebeta> brousch: that's something I would go to
<brousch> are there really enough topics for a whole group around it?
<brousch> sounds like an excuse to drink beer and dis emacs
<_stink_> sold
<binbrain> brousch: I've been using vim for 10 years now, and I'm still tweaking it ;)
<_stink_> wait wait
<_stink_> FF5?
<_stink_> wtf is the story with this?
<_stink_> it just showed up in the lucid FF ppa.
<brousch> _stink_: d00d that's so 2 days ago
<brousch> try to keep up
<_stink_> note that i don't follow any feeds or anything.
<_stink_> i just rely on you guys
<brousch> FF5 is out
<_stink_> like release release?
<brousch> yep
<_stink_> wtf
<_stink_> i'm uncomfortable with this pace of progress
<brousch> then move to debian!
<Scott_firebeta> didn't they already drop support for FF4?
<_stink_> as long as my extensions work, no big deal
<_stink_> but if my extensions don't work, DIE
<_stink_> also
<_stink_> the bookie extension is now behind even more :(
<_stink_> wait, maybe it's ok
<_stink_> yep
<_stink_> phew
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> FF is doing the chrome pace.
<jrwren> i welcome it. it does feel a little snappier, but aht might because I reduced me tab count
<Wolfger> brousch: drink beer and dis emacs? I'm in! :-D
<brousch> make it so
<rick_h_droid> Blazeix ping
<rick_h_droid> jrwren tea, and no way to add via web yet
<rick_h_droid> we needed the auto bits
<rick_h_droid> to add we need new controller methods in views/bmarks. py
<rick_h_droid> current the extension uses the bookie. api. js to call views/api. py
<rick_h_droid> there are tests demonstrating that in test_api/__init__. py
<rick_h_droid> jrwren what is "smart bookmarks"?
<jrwren> http://www.delicious.com/help/savebuttons  <-- little "bookmarks" that are javascript:blah(); that redir to the site to let you add the page you are on.
<jrwren> nice thing is, works in every browser.
<rick_h_droid> ah, and bookmarklet
<rick_h_droid> tea, coffee on the top now that we have auth
<rick_h_droid> I want it bad for my android browser
<rick_h_droid> lol, and bad keyboard
<rick_h_droid> it's in the coming soon list
<rick_h_droid> https://bmark.us/admin/tags/bookmarklet
<rick_h_> yay, wifi
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome with the vim group
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool on the slides from lmorchard
<rick_h_> definitely something I've thought about and want to get to
<rick_h_> I've read some chef/puppet but not there yet
<rick_h_> but think getting close
<rick_h_> all comes down to time :/
<snap-l> I <3 it when someone asks me questions about systems that are essentially black boxes to me
<snap-l> ie: what account I'm using between two machines
<snap-l> when I have nothing to do with either of those machines
<snap-l> yay, found an extension to reload a page every x number of seconds
<snap-l> That'll come in handy for a certain forum that keeps logging me off after no re-loads.
<snap-l> Also, Wrox books are now available on O'Reilly
<snap-l> unfortunately, the appear to be around list-price for the paperback.
<snap-l> Oh, sorry, they're a little bit cheaper.
<snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/24/mongohq-raises-417k-from-y-combinator-lehrer-and-sv-angel/
<snap-l> I am in the wrong fucking business
<snap-l> I need to come up with some new way to lose data so I can get my start-up funding
<Blazeix> rick_h_: hey
<brousch> devnull storage systems
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you ever get tethering to android wifi mode working on arch?
<rick_h_> tried ad-hoc mode and such with no luck getting an address
<Blazeix> rick_h_: no I haven't. But my only attempts have been half-hearted attempts at CHC.
<rick_h_> ok, just checking
<rick_h_> found some wifi, but seemed odd when I couldn't get it up
<snap-l> Lead Recruiter - Pre IPO Start Up at Barracuda Networks
<snap-l> Wow, this just sounds like a reall douchey title to me
<snap-l> as indicated you are a person they've done business with at Barracuda Networks
<snap-l> I am the lead recruiter at Barracuda Networks. I came across your profile and noticed that you have a strong technical background as a developer. We are currently looking for someone with similar skills. Please feel free to get in touch with me if you are interested
<devinheitmueller> "strong technical background as a developer" constitutes "similar skills"?
<devinheitmueller> Yes, I always try to hire developers with strong technical backgrounds, but that doesn't mean every developer who has one is appropriate for the positions I am hiring?
<devinheitmueller> I hear you are a detail oriented employee.  My company needs those!
<snap-l> Yeah, I love those
<snap-l> So generic
<snap-l> That was part of the reason I deleted my Dice account
<snap-l> if I start getting the same kind of cold-call stuff, I'll likely ditch my linkedin account as well
<snap-l> feeling quite anti-social today.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-25
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> (Yes, there's still 8 minutes left)
<Scott_L> good afternoon
<snap-l> Anyone want a Sony Clie?
<brousch> ew
<brousch> i just weaned my boss off of his 6 months ago
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-26
<gamerchick02> a what?
<brousch> it is probably older than you, gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> i'm almost 30. try me.
<gamerchick02> ;)
<brousch> a sony pda running palmos
<gamerchick02> ok. what year was it from? mid-90s?
<snap-l> Hey, it was the top of the line Palm OS device at the time
<gamerchick02> sounds painful.
<gamerchick02> i'm sure it was!
<gamerchick02> now we have android. :-P
<snap-l> Well, what's funny is I finally found the charger for it
<snap-l> it was with the Nintendo DS stuff
<gamerchick02> hehe! cool.
<snap-l> I'd driven myself nuts trying to find it
<snap-l> Which is unfortunately telling on several fronts
<gamerchick02> :) does it even sync with a computer?
<snap-l> The Clie? Heck yeah
<gamerchick02> ah. cool.
<snap-l> Palm had some amazing PDAs
<gamerchick02> i wasn't sure if it needed something special to sync.
<gamerchick02> i know!
<snap-l> Well, it needed a cradle which had a serial port of some form
<gamerchick02> ah
<brousch> i don't think palm desktop works with win7
<brousch> i used to sync with kontact
<gamerchick02> kontact is nice. i've used it.
<brousch> then gmail came along
<brousch> now i have 2 old palms in a box
<gamerchick02> gmail is all kinds of awesome.
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> i'm off for TV. see you all later!
<rick_h_> howdy party peeps
<jjesse> howdy
<snap-l> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'm liking your lococast discussion idea more and more
<rick_h_> kind of funny to think about how some of these services hold your passwords
<rick_h_> crap, mind blank...
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, it's totally developer-centered, and something that we discussed at CHC
<snap-l> and I think it has some merit for general discussion.
<jrwren> anyone run forked-daapd? I can't even get it ot build :(
<jrwren> i think its not calling antlr properly in its build step, but i'm not sure.
<snap-l> Any reason you're not using mt-daapd?
<snap-l> brb
<jrwren> because its obsolete and abandonded
<jrwren> and doesn't support any modern apple DAAP
<jrwren> anyone use datauri for images in webdev?
<brousch> i got a hybrid ssd/spinning HD
<brousch> it's kind of strange to hear the drive writing but not see the HD light flashing
<snap-l> brousch: I've gotten used to that. :)
<snap-l> esp when none of the motherboards support my case HDD light. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-18
<snap-l> eveninig
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> snap-l: widox Blazeix just a heads up. I'll be late to CHC this week. If they bug you on the room just let them know I'll pay when I get there
<rick_h> stupid family stuff, at least it's down that way so I can drive seperate :)
<snap-l> np
<rick_h> howdy, morning
<brousch> morn
<shakes808> Good morning
<rick_h> nooooo, heroku suffers downtime is causing me to not use my app to read my news this morning
<rick_h> booooo!
<brousch> Heh, I was just going to mention how I can't update the GRPUG website
<brousch> DIAF Heroku!
<rick_h> app loaded, woot
<brousch> up
<brousch> ug
<brousch> Not up
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> I'm not sure why the Squeezebox is on a MC900ft Jesus kick lately, but I'm not complaining.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: you doing a classical podcast?
<rick_h> hey, it's ColonelPanic001 howdy
<ColonelPanic001> it's rick_h! howdy
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: we thought maybe you'd been firewalled off
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Possibly. I've been kicking the idea around for a bi
<snap-l> bit, even
<brousch> I thought it was wolfger that was firewalled into oblivion
<snap-l> Trying to come up with a good name for it
<snap-l> And yeah, it was Wolfger that was having trouble scaling the great firewall of Chrysler.
<rick_h> oh doh
<rick_h> sorry, case of the monday's I swear
<brousch> Wow, WTF it is dark as night outside right now
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l++;
<rick_h> not here
<rick_h> dark that is
<snap-l> Yesterday we were leaving Chipotle on Woodward, and it was pouring
<snap-l> headed down 14 mile, and it was pouring
<snap-l> stopped in the parking lot at Caribou, and it was pouring
<snap-l> got home, and it was absolutely bone dry
<rick_h> yea, we got a little rain, not a ton
<rick_h> but nice to sit on the porch and hack kind of rain
<snap-l> I swear, ever since JoDee got that rain gauge, we've missed more storms than anything
<rick_h> put a little cool into things
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> "Oh sit, she's recording this. Better head north"
<rick_h> man, this oatmeal thing just gets better and better http://goo.gl/TKSSA
<brousch> Yeah, crazy
<snap-l> He's also allgedy suing indiegogo, and the charities that The Oatmeal was supporting with the campaign
<rick_h> yea, someone's having a rough week
<rick_h> it's called "look before you leap" guys. Before you file that stupid paper, look to see what ammo the other guy has in the gun rack
<rick_h> and sometimes...it just ain't worth it
<snap-l> Thing is, you can sue for anything
<snap-l> getting a judge to hear it? Sometimes they do
<snap-l> I'd be very surprised if this case isn't bounced higher than a superball out of the courtroom
<snap-l> Reminds me of those bullshit video game lawsuits.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)
<rick_h> ugh, javascript is going to be getting more ugly isn't it...http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:existential_operator
<rick_h> this and the => function bit.../me goes to look at dart again
<snap-l> Going?
<snap-l> Dude, it was miles down the road to ugly
<snap-l> It was just at the rest stop
<rick_h> well it's not that bad from something like PHP where you're used to the C syntax/etc
<snap-l> Yeah, but if you come from Ruby, it'll be a brain-warp
<rick_h> well these seem like ruby-isms
<rick_h> python would do a default using a method
<rick_h> something.get('key', 'default')
<rick_h> this is some sort of .? magic crap
 * snap-l awaits the Javascript: The Good Parts update that says "Don't use this"
<jrwren> rick_h: using the font for your icons instead of images?  cool.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, really like the way that works out for color/size/etc flexibility vs sprites
<snap-l> plus it makes retina displays work flawlessly. ;)
<rick_h> hah
<jrwren> wow, great point.
<rick_h> love gigabit, sure let me rsync that 30GB for you wheee
<_stink_> rick_h: just posted a question in #yui, thought i'd ping you separately in case you have a suggestion
<rick_h> _stink_: looking
<_stink_> thanks.
<brousch> Suggestion: use jquery instead
<rick_h> jrwren: ty sir https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/commit/bdfa93380197454f89d0f390fbd77c293f30f80f
<rick_h> _stink_: do you have code? How are you creating the button?what existing html/etc?
<_stink_> rick_h: ofc.  i'll pastebin in #yui
<rick_h_> _stink_: sorry there.
<rick_h_> _stink_: can you link me again?
<snap-l> Special Weather Statement. Looks like we're going to ger some storms.
<rick_h_> yay!
<snap-l> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=clarkston%2C+mi
<_stink_> rick_h_: http://pastebin.com/u96f4Z1A
<_stink_> np
<rick_h_> on swim  day
<snap-l> http://www.wunderground.com/US/MI/069.html#SPE
<brousch> You're welcome
<snap-l> brousch: Apparently that's the stuff that blew by you. ;)
<rick_h_> dammit, forgot my headphones at the coffee shop...ugh
<rick_h_> man monday is biting hard today
<brousch> Some has a case of the mondays?
<rick_h_> just one of those mondays where everything seems to just not work out right
<snap-l> ugh
<rick_h_> and system lockup makes me unhappy
<snap-l> Ugh.
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, pypi mirror on the laptop complete and working. except setup.py doesn't listen to it because it's not pip :(
<brousch> can you change your hosts file to make localhost pypi?
<rick_h_> ah, good point I guess
<brousch> Toss it in a VM you can move around
<brousch> How big is it?
<rick_h_> right now it's a project with a make file. Sets up nginx, etc
<rick_h_> 30GB
<brousch> Portable PyPi would be a cool project
<brousch> Update it once a day
<brousch> Convert pypi into a ginormous git repo and everyone can clone their own, push and pull
<brousch> make it so
<rick_h_> yea, have it set to update 5:30am so should be up to date each morning
<brousch> mypypi!
<rick_h_> mypi is what I have it aliased as :)
<brousch> Could it be made into an easy VM?
<rick_h_> probably
<rick_h_> sec, pushing up the bootstrap stuff to github
<brousch> Is it worth it?
<rick_h_> meh, we'll find out. I tried having it on hte network, but had a hard time keeping that system running. We'll see if having it local works out
<snap-l> brousch: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/download.jpg
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/mypi
<brousch> woohoo!
<rick_h_> oh cool, got it working for setup.py develop as well
<greg-g> rick_h_: working with rye in #ubuntuone on recovering some lost files
<greg-g> s/some/the/
<rick_h_> greg-g: good luck!
<greg-g> thanks
<greg-g> this was in a PM, but it doesn't seem secret, if it is, my bad, but, this is what is happening:
<greg-g> 12:24 <      rye> i will recover last 10000 deleted files (no datetime interval), you will start seeing new files  in "Recovered" folder in Ubuntu One volume
<rick_h_> oh, very cool
<jrwren> i just went with eggproxy. I don't want to mirror all of pypi
<rick_h_> yea, I figured wtf go for it all. Last thing I need is to get blocked by a new packages I want to add but pypi down/network offline
<rick_h_> putting another 120gb drive in here today so that'll be pypi/virtualbox space
<greg-g> rick_h_: so yeah, you're doing what? the x230 can have two harddrives?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, 220 can as well
<greg-g> oh reeeaaaalllly?
<greg-g> hmmmmm
<rick_h_> they have a msata port under the keyboard
<rick_h_> msata ssd's exist
<rick_h_> so have a 240gb intel in the main disk bay, but 120gb msata drive showing up today
<rick_h_> so some assembly required
<rick_h_> as long as you're not using that port for wwam module (cellular access)
<rick_h_> wwan that is
<jrwren> i've never even heard of msata.
<jrwren> isn't wwam port micropci?
<greg-g> it's like sata, but smaller (says the first hit on ddg)
<jrwren> err, minipci or minipci express?
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#mSATA
<greg-g> that *is* tiny
<rick_h_> and htinking of getting one of these for backup http://www.amazon.com/Micro-SATA-Cables-MSATA-ADPT-Adapter/dp/B004YKJ5TE/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1340037601&sr=8-14&keywords=msata+ssd
<jrwren> yeah, its the same pinout as minipcie
<rick_h_> greg-g: so there's your raid mirror for you
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#mSATA
<brousch> greg-g: Very cool that they're recovering for you
<rick_h_> yea, seems common for guys to do msata for main drive nad keep the slower 7200rpm in the laptop for mass storage
<greg-g> hmmmm
<brousch> That's cool. Looks kind of like the SSD in the EEEPc 901
<rick_h_> well all these ultrabooks are using these things I guess vs real drives
<rick_h_> so heading this route, ram-like ssd
<brousch> yeah, well the legacy shapes are due to physical constraints and connections of spinning HDs
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> I look forward to the hair-thin connectors on devices
<rick_h_> *snap*
<snap-l> Seriously, they keep making these damn things smaller. Pretty soon the adapters will be larger than the devices.
<brousch> that's why you let apple install them and solder them to the board!
<snap-l> brousch: Exactly
<snap-l> upgrading is for qualified technicians only
<brousch> MicroSD is about as tiny as I can handle
<rick_h_> yea, my usb adaptor for that is 4x the size of the card itself
<snap-l> Technicians who have spent years shaping micro-sized bonsai trees
<brousch> snap-l: AKA children
<brousch> I had my son with his tiny 4 year old hands help with something last weekend
<TeamXlink> Does anyone have any recommendations for an ISP? I currently am using an AT&T bundle, but I'm now required to purchase my own service. All I need is internet though.
<brousch> Comcast
<TeamXlink> Really?
<rick_h_> TeamXlink: I use uverse just internet and am happy with it
<TeamXlink> I want to get at least a one mb upload speed consistantly.
<brousch> $50/mo for 6 up 18 down. Yes please
<TeamXlink> Wow!
<MaskedDriver> +1 for Uverse
<rick_h_> brousch: you get 6up?
 * rick_h_ is jealous...finally bit the bullet to pay max price to get 3mb up
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: 3 up with Uverse?
<MaskedDriver> it's 2.5 last I checked
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: yea, their top tier
<MaskedDriver> oh
<rick_h_> only .5 below that
<rick_h_> 1.5 that is
<MaskedDriver> that's a big difference ;)
<brousch> Helz yeah
<jrwren> i use comcast and I am very happy with it.
<MaskedDriver> I don't like how Comcast does business
<jrwren> they are leading ipv6 to customers. i support them on this.
<TeamXlink> brousch, what package do you get?
<jrwren> what do you not like about how comcast does business?
<MaskedDriver> they sue everyone lol
<jrwren> they do?
<jrwren> links please? I've not heard about comcast lawsuit
<brousch> TeamXlink: One of the middle tiers
<jrwren> and in fact, comcast is preventing mpaa from sueing their customers, another thing I like about comcast
<MaskedDriver> http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/22/comcast-sues-sprint/
<MaskedDriver> http://www.adweek.com/news/television/comcast-sues-directv-over-nfl-sunday-ticket-ads-133912
<brousch> I've been really happy with Comcast at home and work for the last 2 years
<MaskedDriver> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-21/british-telecommunications-sued-by-comcast-over-network-patents.html
<MaskedDriver> http://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/comcast-sues-city-wants-tax-refund/Content?oid=1550684
<MaskedDriver> they also do stuff like this: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/11/comcast-sued-ov/
<jrwren> you realize that first link is a counter sue because sprint filed suit against comcast. so comcast is on the defense there.
<MaskedDriver> I didn't read it lol
<MaskedDriver> I hadn't heard about the Sprint one
<jrwren> so you aren't really sure about what you don't like about comcast?
<jrwren> or you just want to dislike them?
<brousch> I used to hate them
<MaskedDriver> I heard about the city one and the british telecom and blocking bittorrent ones
<MaskedDriver> blocking bittorrents for the sake of blocking bittorrents is bad
<jrwren> your business week link, the BT one comcast is trying to get BT patents invalidated. this is excellent IMO
<brousch> I haven't had any trouble with torrents, but then I only torrent Ubuntu CDs on release days
<jrwren> yes, I wasn't happy about blocking bittorrent, but they backed off from that.
<MaskedDriver> brousch: cause they got sued lol
<jrwren> i used to hate them too.
<jrwren> they have really turned around their image, IMO
<MaskedDriver> they were one of the first with data caps
<MaskedDriver> but everyone has one now, so I can't hate them for that anymore
<jrwren> your second link they are looking for truth in advertising, again I can support this.
<brousch> I have uploaded obscene amounts of stuff and never been warned
<brousch> So I have no idea what people are doing to hit caps
<MaskedDriver> I think Comcast is 350gb
<MaskedDriver> welp
<MaskedDriver> not anymore... at least for now
<brousch> Maybe they'll get me this month. I just uploaded 381GB of backup files over 3 days
<MaskedDriver> looks like they suspended it a couple months ago
<jrwren> its 250GB
<MaskedDriver> looks like this guy is switchign to Comcast lol
<MaskedDriver> used to be 250GB
<jrwren> adn they are still watching you can view your usage on their customer portal
<MaskedDriver> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/comcast-raises-data-cap/
<jrwren> I've gone over the 250 quite a few times with zero consequences.
<jrwren> yes, the cap is gone, but the 250 monitor watch is still there on their customer portal
<MaskedDriver> ah
<MaskedDriver> so Xfinity is a gigantic improvement over their last system it looks like
<jrwren> xfinity is just a brand, what do you mean "their last system" ?
<MaskedDriver> I might have to look in to it
<MaskedDriver> my girlfriend has Xfinity, I had her run a speedtest.net
<MaskedDriver> she got ping of 11, 24.42 down and 4.27 up
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/real-rock-drummer-for-non-pussy-band-in-la
<jrwren> https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks/news/search_results.asp?docKey=100-166p4188-1&DMSourceID=COMTEX&Source=PR%20Newswire&docDate=2012-06-14%2020:27:00&headline=Comcast%20Provides%20%24200%2C000%20In%20College%20Scholarships%20To%20180%20California%20High%20School%20Seniors&refSymbols=undefined
<jrwren> oh yeah, the speed is great.
<jrwren> I get 30/8 from comcast with speedboost to 50/10
<jrwren> that speedboost is really nice
<jrwren> its not just a gimmick
<MaskedDriver> 24.42 does that mean she has the 30 (that was slower than advertised) or 20 (that ended up speeding it up)?
<MaskedDriver> she has no idea which package they have lol
<brousch> MaskedDriver: They regularly go over the advertised speed
<MaskedDriver> so she probably ahs the 20mbps
<snap-l> Well, if she is paying for the 20mpbs, then cool
<snap-l> if she's paying for the 30mbps, then complain
<MaskedDriver> lol yeah
<MaskedDriver> she's playing SWTOR right now, so it may have slowed it down too
<snap-l> and if she's paying for 25mbps, well, nobody's perfect.
<snap-l> And if she's paying for 8mbps... ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> looks like xfinity only goes down to 20
<MaskedDriver> so if she's paying for 8mbps, she's doing something very wrong
<MaskedDriver> most important question about Comcast: it has HBOGo support right?
<MaskedDriver> oh nvm they go down to 3mbps
<jrwren> if you pay extra for HBO, yes.
<MaskedDriver> well yeah
<MaskedDriver> my current plan is: basic channels (local and local hd) and HBO lol
<MaskedDriver> only stations I ever watch
<MaskedDriver> not seeing the price differential though except for slightly faster upload speeds. Uverse's 24mbps down and 3 up is $63 and Comcast's 20 is 62.95
<rick_h_> oooh, snap-l sourceforge going out to pasture? https://twitter.com/sourceforge/status/214762408621768704
<snap-l> rick_h_: Interesting
<snap-l> I wouldn't say it's going out to pasture, but it'll be interesting to see what the Apache Foundation does with it
<rick_h_> anyone know, does 3.1gb sound right for a windows7 64bit iso?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I mean usually (99% of the time) it's a 'handoff' move
<rick_h_> now if ASF runs with it cool, but I've not really seen companies stay in there, maybe I'm missing some examples
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, I think you're right.
<brousch> rick_h_: Win7 cpmes on DVD, so it sounds about right
<MaskedDriver> Win Server 2008 is 3.5gb
<MaskedDriver> R2*
<rick_h_> brousch: cool thanks, haven't worked with cds in a while so not sure how to make sure I ripped the iso right
<brousch> md5
<MaskedDriver> don't have a desktop one available to check the size of
<brousch> I have Win7 Pro SP1 x64 EN I can check against
<rick_h_> naw, this is home, all good though. I'm pretty sure I've got someting to try out later
<rick_h_> time to get a vbox windows machine again
<snap-l> Good luck
<brousch> Win7 isn't so bad. You stick it one of your Linux workspaces and have 9 others for useful programs
<jrwren> disclosure: given teh above conversation, I now have an open order for CMCSA shares.
<greg-g> cmcsa?
<greg-g> comcast, got it
<jrwren> rick_h_: my buddy Matt responded to your firefox font SO question.
<MaskedDriver> how many shares?
<snap-l> I swear sometimes people don't think
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: or read
<MaskedDriver> what happened?
<snap-l> Just got an approval from a customer for a change that they expect to run today
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> which, if things went correctly, would have already been winging their way to their destination
<snap-l> so, in effect, they were expecting me to make a change without their approval
<snap-l> which, had things gone wrong, would have wound up like an albatross against my neck
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, looking into it. Thanks
<rick_h_> jrwren: ooh, think I got it, thanks
<rick_h_> greg-g: hopefully the site looks better to you as well
<rick_h_> jcastro: so my question was my own fault, I want to close it, but give the guy that tried to help me some credit. Some way to do that in SO?
<jcastro> link?
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11072655/firefox-font-face-fail-with-fontawesome/11085126
<greg-g> rick_h_: YAY I have icons again!
<brousch> The icons were gone?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, much prettier now eh? :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I broke things in FF it turns out
<jcastro> rick_h_: looks like your comment is the answer
<greg-g> well, icons being characters from a font
<brousch> Ah, FF. Those people deserve what they get!
<jcastro> rick_h_: post that as an answer, link to his answer for credit, upvote him, then accept your answer.
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I was going to answer my own question, but really the whole thing is a bad question and should go away since it was my fault
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h_> link to his answer for credit?
<jcastro> after X hours you can close it
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> or click flag and post a message to have it removed.
<rick_h_> so when you said "link" to his answer how do you do that? Just put a link in my answer to his answer permalink?
<rick_h_> ok, cool think it's close enough. I'll come back and select the answer tomorrow
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> so sometimes if someone's answer helped me a bit
<jcastro> but you need to finish it off
<jcastro> I do:
<jcastro> "John's _answer_ helped me figure it out, I had to finish it off with foo, bar, baz"
<jcastro> then upvote him
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool, ty SE pro :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: so did I hear it's official? You're AA bound?
<jcastro> pending inspection and mortgage, yeah
<jcastro> heh
<rick_h_> congrats man! awesome
<jcastro> ta
<jcastro> I am looking forward to bribing you to build me wooden shit
<jcastro> "I need a pegboard, hmmm, what is rick doing today."
<rick_h_> lol
<derekv2> so, oh yea, last week i figured out installing oracle java on ubuntu in an automated way is "interesting" and reaffirmed my dislike of oracle and java
<snap-l> jcastro: Very cool. SO you're going to be in AA-proper then?
<jcastro> ypsilanti township
<snap-l> Love their library down there
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I'm about 5 minutes from it
<snap-l> Ah, cool. I have a fighting chance of finding you, then
<greg-g> ypsi is a surprisingly hard town to drive around in
<snap-l> yes
<snap-l> If I'm not lost once I pass EMU, I don't feel like I've been there.
<greg-g> rick_h_: carrie's sister lives about 5 minutes South of the library
<rick_h_> upvotes appreciated: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/v8b7u/pyohio_the_annual_python_conference_in_columbus/
<greg-g> erm that was supposed to be for jcastro
<greg-g> jcastro: carrie's sister lives about 5 minutes South of the library
<jrwren> jcastro: what neighborhood?
<jcastro> greg-g: wow you will have a place to stay!
<jcastro> jrwren: some subdivision
<greg-g> dude, what address, you might be near her!
<jrwren> lol, K. near what intersection?
<jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upWYBz_NEo4
<jcastro> it's like 94 and 23
<rick_h_> oh wow, that's kind of cool
<jrwren> damn jorge, that looks nice
<rick_h_> no kidding
 * rick_h_ steals your walk in for my wife
<greg-g> jcastro: carrie's sis is about here: http://goo.gl/maps/jMNA
<jrwren> oh, that is way the hell out east :)
<jrwren> you don't have to commute to woirk.
<jcastro> greg-g: we're in the sub one over to the right
<jrwren> where is jill planning on seeking work?
<jcastro> jrwren: jill does, but it's like 20min
<greg-g> jcastro: gotcha
<jrwren> only 10 miles from where I live now. i shall invite you to Original Gravity for beer, often.
<jcastro> we will be best buddies
<jcastro> jrwren: she'll be working in downtown
<jcastro> kerrytown I think they call it
<jrwren> ah, kerrytown rocks. where is she working?
<greg-g> kerrytown is north of downtown
<greg-g> ;)
<jrwren> oh greg-g :)
<jrwren> by two blocks!
<jcastro> jrwren: http://www.hygeiacenter.org/
<jrwren> can I force another make rule to execute even if its deps don't req the rule to run?
<rick_h_> .PHONY it
<rick_h_> or touch the dep
<derekv2> what I don't remember, is can you do dependancies that are not file+timestamp ...
<derekv2> like you'd like to see that a line exists in a file, if not add it
<rick_h_> not that I know of. You'd have to biuld that smarts intot he command and make it a phony target
<derekv2> i guess if you put both test and command in a .PHONY it'd be the same
<derekv2> re
<greg-g> jcastro: whoa! that's a pretty interesting place jill will be working!
<jcastro> yeah, it's like, an old house
<jrwren> yes, I did .PHONY
<jrwren> but basically I want make test to be teh same as anotehr rule I alreayd have defined
<jrwren> but that rule(err target) does have real deps and so it won't execute.
<jrwren> I'm trying to DRY my target commands
<jrwren> ah, got it.
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> greg-g: Are you getting your files back?
<greg-g> snap-l: no garauntees yet, but they may have at least a partial collection of files
<greg-g> they first created a Recovered dir in U1 where they then put the last 10000 deleted files
<greg-g> on their end it worked (ie, some files showed up in Grad_Shool) but I can't see them locally or via one.ubuntu.com
<greg-g> so, fingers still crossd
<greg-g> +e
<jrwren> hrm, no i don't have my make file quite right.
<snap-l> greg-g: That's a hard lesson
<snap-l> one I learned with my music collection :)
<greg-g> yeah, don't trust SSDs ;)
<rick_h_> well any hard drive
<greg-g> they'll disappear some files without telling you, then U1 will faithfully sync that disappearance everywhere else :)
<rick_h_> but yea, that's why they always say a mirror never counts as a backup
<rick_h_> ugh
<greg-g> right
<rick_h_> backup is hard, let's go shopping
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> but at least when a disk fails it USUALLY goes slowly and you can do some recoverty.
<jrwren> SSD just dies. dead. forever gone.
<jrwren> death
<jrwren> no life
<snap-l> I thought SSD would just go read-only
<rick_h_> ok, so usb3 is nice...go go go
<snap-l> Yeah, USB3 is a nice little compromise
<rick_h_> syncing off my system to the original drive that came with this thing, in a usb 3 carrier and it's definitely getting some speed
<greg-g> snap-l: nope, it goes "I was never here, there was never any file here"
<snap-l> I do wonder if I'd get some more performance by moving my backup drive to the router.
<greg-g> also:
<greg-g> 16:34 <      rye> ok, I see why it is and at the moment I don't understand why, there is no hash for the recovered  file entries i.e. no attached content data, digging deeper, but this does not look promising at  all
<greg-g> :*
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> greg-g: Fuck
<snap-l> greg-g: Does it show as an 8MB device?
<snap-l> and was it an Intel drive?
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> http://communities.intel.com/message/133499
<greg-g> it was Intel
<greg-g> huh, no, it is just done, dead
<jrwren> how fast is usb3? 4Gbit?  hrm... usb3 to usb3 network anyone? :)
<rick_h_> I wish sent 62687062554 bytes  received 5040598 bytes  82327121.67 bytes/sec
<rick_h_> total size is 62659125696  speedup is 1.00
<rick_h_> that's the end of the rsync, minus the I wish thing
<rick_h_> that was intended for something else...ugh
<jrwren> that is slower than gigabit
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> 17:07 <      rye> I am very sorry to say this but according to the data I have the files were never uploaded to  Ubuntu One for some reason. Even when the clients were released which were fixing the issues  found the metadata kept the flag the files were synchronized and no action was taken by the  client. I am afraid that's the only thing I can tell and I am extremely sorry for this issue.
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> ugh, sorry greg-g
<snap-l> greg-g: Was holidng out hope
<greg-g> I'm going to go buy some whiskey for tonight
<greg-g> (joking)
<greg-g> I had mostly come to terms with it since Friday
<snap-l> Is the BIOS not recognizing the drive?
<snap-l> greg-g: Wondered if Spinrite might help out, but apparently it's useless for SSDs
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, but when it is mounted there are thousands of errors according to e2fsck
<greg-g> maybe millions, basically, the whole drive is in an error state :)
<snap-l> could you mount the drive read-only and try reading it that way?
<greg-g> its dead, jim.
<snap-l> firmware update!
<greg-g> jim, its dead.
<snap-l> defibrilator!
<greg-g> JIM!
<greg-g> snap out of it man!
<snap-l> ship it here so I can smack it around a bit
<snap-l> http://risha.bandcamp.com/album/leto-summer
<greg-g> snap-l: risha is very very interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-19
<rick_h_> woot! it worked! 120GB of more space just by popping off the keyboard
<rick_h_> hah, iotop showing 80-90M/s write wheee
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome.
<rick_h_> man, a long time since I edited an fstab
<brousch> kicking the MBP to the curb. I couldn't get it working with the projector tonight
<Blazeix> under mac os or linux?
<brousch> linux
<Blazeix> using xrandr? i'm thinking about buying the new macbook pro.
<Blazeix> so i want to hear everybody's complaints :)
<rick_h_> if it's an older nvidia it doesn't support xrandr I thought.
<brousch> I tried built in monitor settings and nvidia, but neither would see the projector
<brousch> I can't trust it, so it is no good to me
<brousch> Blazeix: I would not count on Linux running 100% on Apple hardware
<brousch> Had to use extra drivers and a PPA
<brousch> And this one is 3 years old. I imagine it's worse for newer models
<snap-l> Blazeix: I'd try it, and know that Macs have great resale
<Blazeix> yeah, i know i'm in for some pain
<Blazeix> i think i'm going to let one of my friends guinea pig it first
<brousch> Also, are you a nipple man?
<Blazeix> you know it
<Blazeix> that's going to be a tough adjustment
<brousch> Takes a lot of getting used to
<Blazeix> though i do have a nice wireless mouse that i carry around
<Blazeix> so i might use that as a crutch
<brousch> I put the SSD back into the Dell, and it all still works, again
<brousch> Freakish
<brousch> I missed my nipple, delete key, and function keys without having to hold down funct
<snap-l> "brousch: I missed my nipple," <- Yes, I'm 12, and I snickered.
<snap-l> Getting the itch to move things in the den again
<snap-l> Thinking I can make some more "space" by moving the file cabinet where the printer rests.
<snap-l> Of course, this revalation made itself apparent _after_ I bought a 15ft cable for it
<rick_h_> moving time!
<snap-l> jcastro: Got the Fan Pack for Rush's Clockwork Angels yesterday
<rick_h_> ubuntu porta-john? http://goo.gl/GcPI2
<shakes808> Good moring
<shakes808> morning
<nullspace> rick_h_: be human to others and light a match
<nullspace> oh wait it's a cluster
<rick_h_> yea
<shakes808> I will be MIA tomorrow for CHC, I have my son this week and have to pick him up from the babysitter's
<rick_h_> party on sir!
<shakes808> and btw, happy fasha's day to all the fasha's in the room!
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Wow, those pandaboards aren't that expensive, but when you add up 96 of them, that's 16704.00 (if you bought them from digikey)
<snap-l> And you'd have to find another retailer, because they only have 20 in stock
<snap-l> Ah, my bad, they only have 48 boards
<snap-l> so it's only 8352
<rick_h_> yea, somewhere somone filed a grant and paid for them all
<rick_h_> _stink_: you get anywhere with your issue yesterday? Never heard back
<snap-l> My problem would be finding interesting problems for it
<rick_h_> flac conversions can only go on so long :)
<snap-l> run benchmarks is not exactly earth-shattering
<rick_h_> but but but...it's solar!
<snap-l> That part is intriguing
<rick_h_> turn it into a single webserver for openmetalcast
<snap-l> especially in Michigan. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Hah. :)
<rick_h_> lol https://twitter.com/tylercoan/status/215058385136140289/photo/1
<snap-l> "Honey, I need to run a hadoop cluster so I can find out how many people aren't listening to my podcast"
<brousch> snap-l: Your wife is an astronomer, correct? I'm sure she has a lot of interesting problems it could crunch on.
<shakes808> snap-l: what panda boards are you talking about?
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, definitely. But she's not quite there yet.
<snap-l> shakes808: http://goo.gl/GcPI2
<snap-l> rick_h_: That picture is stupid
<snap-l> Everyone knows tablets sucked before Apple did them. ;)
<snap-l> http://codeinthehole.com/writing/a-data-migration-for-every-django-project/ <- Finally, a Django data migration that doesn't begin with "DROP DATABASE foo"
<rick_h_> started using alembic for bookie, likey!
<rick_h_> fixes a big issue with sqlalchemy-migration, you can use it with git
<nixternal> snap-l: no, everyone knows tablets sucked before samsung, motorola, and asus did them (thank you android!)
<snap-l> pthhhpt
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i will agree though, apple did make the tablet hip again
<nixternal> though, a totally different tablet. not the tablets from years ago with windows xp on them. those things were awful
<snap-l> nixternal: point/ match
<nixternal> that might be the only thing i understand from tennis, so don't do that again :p
<snap-l> nixternal: You're one up on me. ;)
<nixternal> see, i thought that meant something different, so i didn't even understand that. only thing close to tennis that i play is beer pong :D
<brousch> No, he's 15-love on you
<nixternal> oh shit, here we go
<brousch> barbarians
<nixternal> haha
<brousch> I would make a deuce pun, but you would turn it into a poop joke
<nixternal> to late
<_stink_> rick_h_: i ended up throwing in a span that on('click') does button.fire('click').  this will have to do for now because i am up against some deadlines for functionality.  but i will come back to it in a few weeks and bug you/others again :)
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, make it out to CHC sometime and we can refactor it up
<_stink_> thank you sir
<rick_h_> sounds like some <3 if you've got model stuff doing UI stuff
<_stink_> yeah.  it's get it done time.  i have until end June for a project that really should be about 3 months
<rick_h_> yea, gotcha, been there
<_stink_> and our ability to campaign to prospects depends on it.
<rick_h_> cool
<jrwren> that solar cluster looks awesome. I'd like to see how they did the power. DC-DC or did they go DC-AC-DC?
<rick_h_> krondor: hey, thanks for the suggestion on the yubikey lastpass stuff
<rick_h_> ended up having to get a new key, but cool stuff now
<brousch> Is lastpass free?
<rick_h_> yea, but you have to pay for the 2-factor. Think it was something liek $12 for the year
<brousch> Unconscionable! Everything should be free!
<krondor> rick_h_:  no problem, does it work with NFC on your phone?
<rick_h_> krondor: oh, no not sure how that'd work. I'd need a NFC on the laptop then right
<krondor> no you'd need the lastpass droid app to be smart enough to do nfc
<krondor> or nfc on the laptop too I spose
<krondor> it's supposed to work I think, which would be neat; http://blog.lastpass.com/2012/03/introducing-lastpass-mobile-support-for.html
<rick_h_> oh, I don't have one of those yubikeys, but a nano
<rick_h_> http://www.yubico.com/yubikey-nano
<krondor> ah ok thought you had the NFC yubi, still nice to have two factor :)
<rick_h_> yea, when I launch chrome it pops up my 2-factor inptu box, touch the button, and done passwords automatic from there on out
<rick_h_> ooh, this is kind of sweet for locking down on the phone.
<krondor> brousch:  you don't have to pay for google authenticator two factor, but you do have to pay for yubikey and the mobile app
<rick_h_> yea, I just use the heck out of the chrome extension, so it adds another layer of security on top of that for me
<rick_h_> since I use the yubikey for work already, it's not like it's a new/additional device/etc to deal with
<snap-l> http://sourceforge.net/blog/hosted-apps-retirement/
<snap-l> Oh well
<brousch> My inside source has mentioned that they are a PITA
<snap-l> brousch: They were a PITA when I was an inside source.
<brousch> I think wordpress got hacked and spammed people
<greg-g> wow, sourceforge is just jettisening a ton, eh?
<brousch> Keeping all of those crufty PHP apps up to date is a hassle
<brousch> Especially if they're bleeding developers
<jrwren> i don't understand their revenue model? ads ?
<snap-l> Not if, because
<brousch> jrwren: Yes
<brousch> On the download pages
<snap-l> I'm about ready to pull my piddly-fart projects off of sf.net and put them up on github
<snap-l> Or put up a gitorious instance for them.
<jrwren> github please.
 * rick_h_ feels obligated to say launchpad...but stops
<brousch> snap-l: I put my most recent project on GitHub :(
<jrwren> why :( ?
<jrwren> github is excellent.
<rick_h_> why sadface?
<brousch> Because a friend works at SF
<rick_h_> ah, right. When's Dave getting out?
<jrwren> maybe dave should go work for github :)
<brousch> I don't know. Haven't seen him in a while
<brousch> I think he's been bumped up to Ramm's former job
<rick_h_> oh, good stuff...?
<brousch> No. It is less coding, more managing
<rick_h_> ugh, never mind
<brousch> right
<_stink_> heh, i just went through the exercise of backing up my one project on SF... the backup tool gave me 500 errors.
<rick_h_> woo!
<rick_h_> backup == git clone ...
<brousch> That's a lot of errors
<rick_h_> then, git remove remote origin && git add remote origin git@github... && git push -u origin master
<rick_h_> jrwren: what was your ssh-agent reset thing?
<rick_h_> my .xsessionrc seems to get skipped or have a race condition so that every few boots I don't get it
<_stink_> yeah, i just wanted to see if it works.
<_stink_> it doesn't.
<rick_h_> ah, well good to know I suppose
<jrwren> appended to my PROMPT_COMMAND: export SSH_AUTH_SOCK=`find /tmp/ssh*  -type s -printf "%T+ %p\n" 2>/dev/null | head -1 | cut -f 2 -d " "`
<snap-l> Funny to see all of the former SFers on github as well
<jrwren> oh?
<snap-l> Nate Oostendorp is developing SimpleCV on github
<snap-l> Several other names I've seen are on there.
<brousch> Heh
<snap-l> Work-related, perhaps.
<brousch> Well if you want people to contribute, I think you have to be on github
<snap-l> Yeah, and if you want download mirroring, SF.net is probably the way to go
<snap-l> I think too the sponsored bullshit sites like SlashBI and their HTML5 site (along with the just discovered goparallel site) are big turn-offs
<brousch> heh, goparallel
<brousch> slurping projects from other places
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/zfg0PrWKDDOO2NaEmaVv/ <- Read the link at the bottom, and see what it might spell backward. ;)
<rick_h_> +        self.assertEqual([dict(foo='bar')], calls)
<rick_h_> oops
<_stink_> snap-l: haha
<rick_h_> man, IE9 has this awful UI aroud the url bar/tabs
<brousch> It's called "Windows"
<greg-g> brousch: are you a professional zinger?
<greg-g> or should that be "zing!er"
<brousch> Is that a profession?
<greg-g> well, you seem to do it all day, so I firgured...
<rick_h_> practice practice practice!
<rick_h_> kind of cool http://arc.clients.sightmachine.com/
<brousch> simplecv?
<rick_h_> yea, looks like the webui they're building around their product
<rick_h_> example of a fish tank there with some feeding going on
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/kscottz/status/215144106433855491
<rick_h_> zoom ftw
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h_> got the url by zooming into the photo she posted
<brousch> ah
<snap-l> Argh. Packt is having a game programming sale, but it doesn't cover the one book that I was interested in: Irrlicht
<snap-l> http://www.packtpub.com/news/learn-games-programming-offer
<brousch> snap-l: complain to them
<derekv2> I have a server I need to start, it has no automatic startup script
<derekv2> so i want to make an upstart config for it I think
<derekv2> the manual startup process is it ( beleive it or not ) run one script, wait until startup succeeds, which you verify by running a second script and look to see all the processes say 'Okay' in the output of this script, then run a third script
<jrwren> sounds terrible.
<jrwren> fix that part first :)
<brousch> Professional grade software there
<derekv2> java developers...
<greg-g> hilarious
<greg-g> sound like something I would do
<brousch> But you wouldn't give/sell it to someone else in that state
<derekv2> these guys like to write pages of user documentation about workarounds for shit they could have spent that time fixing
<greg-g> sounds like you have some good doc writers on staff but no developers
<derekv2> their temporary license expired today which i fixed by setting the system clock back
<derekv2> sudo date --set="yesterday"
<greg-g> oh lord
<brousch> So you're paying for this monstrosity?
<derekv2> well... working with it
<derekv2> the shutdown process is even more fun
<derekv2> it has you run ps and look for processes and kill them
<derekv2> after you run the shutdown script
<brousch> killall -9 java
<derekv2> because if you don't and there's some still running it'll fail to restart
<greg-g> "here, please kill our shit for us, we don't know how to stop what we started. thanks for  the money, sucker!"
<brousch> "we don't know how to stop what we started" made me lol
<derekv2> once you let that java process out of the bottle
<jrwren> java runs the enterprise.
<jrwren> i blame this for the colapse of the internet bubble.
<derekv2> enterprise is always going to do stuff in the most ridiculous, self hating way in order to justify its own bloat
<snap-l> I wrote something for our solr instances at sf.net
<snap-l> Java is pretty awful when it comes to behaving like a real program
<derekv2> enterprise is about the game of making things cost more money while making it look like your saving money
<snap-l> especially if you put in something like Tomcat, because the Tomcat server forks itself and returns control to the shell
<snap-l> so you have NFC if it started, crashed, or decided to join the circus
<derekv2> exactly the issue
<derekv2> i hate tomcat
<derekv2> also this thing takes literally like 5 minutes to start up
<derekv2> how do you develop against something like that?
<derekv2> leave the punch cards with the operator and collect a stack of paper in the morning
 * rick_h_ holds back smart-alec answer
<snap-l> derekv2: I feel your pain
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-20
<jrwren> derekv: what exactly is the java software? from where did it come?
<derekv> ok well since my employer has a working relationship with this company probably been a little unprofessional complaining that way
<rick_h_> ooh, https://twitter.com/#!/pyohio
<rick_h_> added a 4th track and still had to turn away talks. 2yrs ago they only turned down one talk
<rick_h_> <3 growing communities
<n0p> snap-l: greg-g: rick_h_: thanks for the words of encouragement wrt the half marathon, was an awesome feeling to complete it
<rick_h_> n0p: dude! awesome stuff
<jrwren> when did you start running?
<jrwren> and congrats. it is a great achievement
<snap-l> https://github.com/ofmlabs/flac.js
<snap-l> God, Cracked.com videos and Chrome induce seizures
<snap-l> Stupid video wanted to resize the window, but Chrome resized it right back
<snap-l> and the video resized, and Chrome resized
<rick_h_> http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/sometimes_im_just_curious_what_its_like_on_the_other_side.png
<rick_h_> I think my wife is hiding her laptop from me, last time I got ahold of it she got 12.04 and unity
<brousch> rick_h_: Hey Mr. Tea Man, do you have any experieence with Teavana? http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/06/teavana_will_open_second_store.html
<rick_h_> brousch: no, I've been happy with adagio teas and haven't bought anything from them yet
<rick_h_> but heard some ok things from people that have bought there
<brousch> I might wander over there at lunch
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> I just started drinking fancy teas when the coffee shop I was getting them at went out of business
<rick_h_> doh
<snap-l> JoDee and I have been to Teavana
<snap-l> nice thing is they have lots of samples
<snap-l> bad thing is most of them aren't really teas
<snap-l> just a bunch of flowers and other shit getting steeped. :)
<snap-l> Go with a skeptical mind
<brousch> I don't have a strict defnition of tea
<brousch> Any sort of plant steeped in water
<snap-l> neither do they
<brousch> So we may get along well
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> Hm, I didn't hear from PyOhio. Maybe I got rejected
<rick_h_> so I didn't hear either, but when I logged in it said accepted
<brousch> Ah, so maybe the automated announcements broke
<brousch> You cannot get rejected. You gave the best talk last year
<rick_h_> well, they say they've got a thing for doing new speaker/etc
<rick_h_> so I've talked a few years in a row
<rick_h_> plus you guys are biased and trying to give me a big head :P
<rick_h_> ok, so I just accidentally did a dd if= of=/dev/sdb where sdb is my second hard drive I'm not used to having
 * rick_h_ hopes I didn't just lose all my data
<snap-l> rick_h_: ruh roh
<rick_h_> so far so good...I think i killed it while it was reading up the .iso maybe
<brousch> yikes!
<brousch> rick_h_: Are you looking at http://pyohio.org/speaker/ while logged in?
<brousch> Mine says "submitted"
<rick_h_> yea, my status says Accepted
<rick_h_> yours is at submitted?
<brousch> right
<rick_h_> which talk did you end up submitting?
<brousch> Python on Android
<rick_h_> well, like I said no email. Maybe they didn't finish last night
<rick_h_> and only got some out/etc
<rick_h_> nullspace: hey, you hitting up CHC tonight?
<nullspace> yep
<brousch> Yeah, I wouldn't be crushed if I was rejected. Makes for a lot less pressure at the conference
<rick_h_> nullspace: ok, awesome. I'll be a little late (dinner with inlaws) but will be there
<rick_h_> so packing up the gear
<nullspace> cool
<rick_h_> die IE die...
<brousch> I find it amusing that even though you work for a Linux vendor, you still have to deal with IE
<brousch> It's like there's no escape, no matter how far away from Windows you go
<rick_h_> hah, well ideally these windows users come over right? :)
<brousch> Any windows user savvy enough to look at Linux will alreayd be using Chrome or FF
<jrwren> teavana is stupid mall store crap.
<jrwren> IMO :)
<rick_h_> solves that
<brousch> :P
<nullspace> jrwren: their teas are good but very expensive
<nullspace> rick_h_: they recently sent out a secrity patch for IE6
<nullspace> mixed messages, I thought that it was no longer supported ...
<rick_h_> nullspace: heh, thankfully we've put that behind us now. Using IE9 and switching modes to IE8/IE7 in there.
<rick_h_> still sucks, dev tools still suck, but better than IE6 thank goodness
<rick_h_> lol, hard drive wipe, 5 passes "ETA 1h 1h"
<rick_h_> oh...
<nullspace> I thought 1 pass was considered enough
<brousch> Disassemble, keep magnets, beat up platters with sledge hammer
<nullspace> I suspect he is talking about his SSD drive
<jrwren> after the passses, becuase NSA could bend them back and get data off
<rick_h_> meh, it gave me the option of 1-9 passes, so I hit up 5 as a reasonable middle ground
<jrwren> and my pictures of my kids are MINE!
<rick_h_> saved me from needing to google the issue :P
<brousch> KILL IT WITH FIRE
<nullspace> jrwren: I thought they disproved the theroy that with an electron microscope you could pull data off
<jrwren> who is "they"
<brousch> If you have to ask, I'm not going to tell you
<rick_h_> <3 vim history articles: http://goo.gl/aaI8w
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, so in order to get you to use VIM effectively, I need to get you an ADM3A terminal. Got it.
 * snap-l has an ADM terminal in the basement
<rick_h_> lol, but of course you do :)
<snap-l> Sadly it's not the ADM3A
<rick_h_> oh wtf...disk check in my windows VM one day in
<brousch> Did you shut it down improperly?
<rick_h_> I hit start->shut down
<MaskedDriver> that's not how you shut down windows! ;)
<jrwren> rick_h_: awesome link
<rick_h_> jrwren: love stuff like that, show just how much stuff has changed over the years you don't even think about
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> hmmm, "deleting orphan file record segment XXXXX" at a rate of about 10/s
 * rick_h_ wonders if I'll be reinstalling my vm shortly
<brousch> ut oh
<rick_h_> oh, you know what...I bet I found out what my bad dd this morning did to me
<brousch> heh, there ya go
<snap-l> Oh lovely
<rick_h_> ok, so going to just give up and reinstall
<jrwren> oops.
<jrwren> restore from backup?
<rick_h_> naw, it's just a VM and only set it up yesterday
<rick_h_> and I'm not backing up that drive
<rick_h_> it consists of my Downloads folder, pypi mirror, and local copy of backups I ahve on the backup server, but local in case I need something while away
<greg-g> g'morning
<greg-g> my mouse is acting weird. I plug it in, it works for a while, until I stop moving it, then the red lazer goes out and it won't come back alive until I replug it back in
<MaskedDriver> greg-g: what kind of mouse?
<greg-g> usb, optical, Kensington
<brousch> try a different usb port
<greg-g> done that
<MaskedDriver> greg-g: get a new mouse
<greg-g> well, sure, if I had one
<MaskedDriver> you don't have 40 mice lying around? for shame :(
<greg-g> I have a couple laptops and keyboards, but not multiple mice :/
<brousch> Mice are deprecated. Use a nipple or touchpad
<MaskedDriver> I have more mice than keyboards
<MaskedDriver> lol... yeah, I think you'll find millions who disagree with you on that brousch. I'd rather get stabbed than use a nipple or touchpad
<brousch> They are all old people who will retire soon
<MaskedDriver> I'm 26
<MaskedDriver> ...
<MaskedDriver> if that were the case, Razer wouldn't keep making a new Naga every year
<brousch> Apple says touch is the future. Jobs has spoken.
<MaskedDriver> Jobs died. That proves that he is neither omnipotent nor immortal. There is fallacy in everything he prophesied.
<MaskedDriver> he was meerly man who claimed that Android wouldn't hurt Apple in any way
<MaskedDriver> merely*
<MaskedDriver> wb snap-l
<snap-l> thanks.
<rick_h_> heh, more keyboards than mice here for the record
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I mean, really, I can get by without the use of a mouse for mosto f my work :)
<MaskedDriver> I upgrade my mice like a stupid person cause I can never find one I love, so I have a bunch of oldies lying around. My keyboards usually last me 4-5 years and by the time I'm done with them and upgrade, they're completely broken
<MaskedDriver> I'm using my DasKeyboard until the end of time, I think. I'm in love with that thing in an unnatural way
<jrwren> yet apple sells magic mouse.
<jrwren> mouse is nice
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: I used one of those at my old job. It was pretty slick
<snap-l> I don't like the magic mouse.
<MaskedDriver> I bought an app that improved it's multi-touch functionality
<jrwren> i didn't think i would like the magic mouse. i thought it would hate it... turns out I love it.
<jrwren> i just use magicprefs, its free.
<MaskedDriver> yeah, that wasn't available when I got mine
<snap-l> jrwren: Have you tried it on a Linux machine? :)
<MaskedDriver> I got mine within the first week of it launching
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, sorry man. Sounds like someone is dropping power, either the mouse or the usb port
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: or windows for that matter ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: new mouse == answer. I tend to keep a travel mouse around as a spare thing to hop around machines for these days
<snap-l> i use and love the logitech mice.
<snap-l> They do the trick, and get out of my way
<rick_h_> trackball!
<snap-l> rick_h_: freak
<rick_h_> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs/wireless-trackball-m570 ftw
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: I used logitech for a long time, then I switched to the Cyborg RAT7 and it ended up doing what greg-g's is (which is why I asked what kind it is), and now I'm using a Razer Naga
<brousch> I want a USB nipple
<MaskedDriver> brousch: I think adam and eve have something like that ;)
<snap-l> Razer is fine if you like cords
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: I'm a gamer, using wireless technology is bad news bears
<MaskedDriver> these "wireless gaming mice" make me chuckle
<snap-l> I want my mouse to be wireless at least.
<jrwren> why would i use a mouse on a linux machine?
<brousch> MaskedDriver: "Â Adam & Eve HomeÂ Text Search: usb nipple (0 Items)
<brousch> We're sorry. The term "usb nipple" has returned 0 results."
<jrwren> linux machines don't have a gui, unless it is android or chromeos :)
<snap-l> I'll settle. I've nver been terribly good at fragging people online anyway.
<rick_h_> jrwren: because you can't highlight and copy text in all apps?
<MaskedDriver> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/gaming/mice-keyboard-combos/g13-advanced-gameboard
<snap-l> jrwren: NIce troll
<MaskedDriver> this is better than a mouse and keyboard
<MaskedDriver> I use that and a DasKeyboard and a Naga
<rick_h_> you're kidding me...
<MaskedDriver> keyboard is just for typing in chat, the naga and G13 take care of everything else
<jrwren> gamers!
<rick_h_> I thought they all died off, still around?
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: And you have hit a limit I will never achieve with gaming peripherals for the PC
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: :) I'll take that as a compliment
<snap-l> Take it for what it is. ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: until MMOs die off completely, there will always be millions of PC gamers around
<MaskedDriver> and playing a FPS on a console is a joke
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Depends on the FPS, but I agree for the most part
<rick_h_> I thought all the gamers grew up and the new kids only play games on their iphones :P
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: only reason I got that is because my hands are tiny and I have a hard time reaching all of the numbers, so I ended up with the bad habit of clicking on skills
<snap-l> Although they have keyboards for consoles.
<MaskedDriver> this broke me of that habit and I'm far more efficient
<snap-l> The only thing the consoles don't let you do is cheat like a mofo.
<snap-l> ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> and make 15 key macros
<MaskedDriver> yeah, bots ruin games pretty quickly
<MaskedDriver> macros are not cheating
<snap-l> yes they are
<MaskedDriver> macros are smart gaming
<snap-l> Not in a FPS
<MaskedDriver> eh yeah
 * MaskedDriver is an MMO guy, mostly
<snap-l> if you're dancing around me like you don't have gravity, you're cheating
<rick_h_> this is the guy with the giant arm stabalizer saying "it's smart bowling" :P
<snap-l> I haven't played a MMO for more than a day.
<MaskedDriver> a day, eh?
<MaskedDriver> I've played an MMO 2 days straight before
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Yeah, I'm not into Warcraft
<MaskedDriver> me neither
<MaskedDriver> never played it
<snap-l> I have better things to do with my time than kill bunnies for XP
<greg-g> MaskedDriver: rick_h_ etc, yeah, I think I'm going to order another full sized mouse and a travel one
<MaskedDriver> greg-g: might I suggest the Razer Naga? ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: for what it's work, I picked up on eof those MS arc mice and actually don't mind it
<rick_h_> folds up small enough to be travel, but folds out big eoungh to not feel like you're mousing with a marshmallow
<greg-g> cool, thanks for the tips
 * greg-g goes to amazon in a second
<greg-g> dangit, amazon is definitely a site that requires a mouse to use!
<rick_h_> lol, very true!
<MaskedDriver> I'm a NewEgg guy
<rick_h_> undock the laptop man, use the point!
<greg-g> but but but, my kinesis!
<rick_h_> I know...I know...but if it's blocking amazon ordering you must do whatever it takes!
<snap-l> greg-g: fwiw, the smaller logitech mice work
<MaskedDriver> ok, time for lunch
<snap-l> I have big hands, but they work OK for me
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: +1 I have a few of those as well, they get the job done and are easy to transport
<rick_h_> my boy is learning, yesterday the UPS guy showed up and the boy goes "It's the ohps man! He's got a big truck! Did yuo get a new lawn mower daddy?"
<rick_h_> I'm going to be in trouble soon as he gets to the point of ratting me out
<snap-l> greg-g: http://ur1.ca/9jcg2
<brousch> rick_h_: Hah, good luck with that
<rick_h_> see marshmallow comment ^ snap-l
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's only a question of when ;)
<rick_h_> gave that one to the wife, she love it though
<rick_h_> snap-l brousch yea, damn kids make you change your life around in more ways than expected
<snap-l> rick_h_: The M305 isn't a marshmallow. :)
<snap-l> But I do like the larger mice.
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/Ij0hG
<rick_h_> crap, it doesn't come in blue swirl!
<jrwren> RTS is same... PC is the best RTS platform.
<jrwren> i made fun of gamers, but I love me some Starcraft2
<rick_h_> or 'pink balance'
<snap-l> jrwren: Depends on the RTS, but there's definitely more breadth on the PC
<jrwren> there is non PC rts?
<snap-l> Civ on the Nintendo DS is more of a toy than on the PC
<rick_h_> ok, is it just me or is the pinboard guy starting to sound snooty/snotty on twitter?
<snap-l> jrwren: Usually more turn-based. Can't think of anything offhand.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, he's a bit of a prick on twitter.
<rick_h_> yea, kind of going from a little bit of a personal hero to the trash dump
<snap-l> unsubbed
<jrwren> who this?
<rick_h_> the pinboard guy
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard
<widox> hm, there must be a new version of that arc mouse, rick_h_, greg-g http://is.gd/FMPCCN
<snap-l> Just sent him a "please close my account" note
<rick_h_> widox: yea, but it's all touchy feely, I've not tried it...but not sure I want to
<brousch> I don't see the prickishness
<snap-l> keep reading
<brousch> i'm tired of reading. i went like 20h
<rick_h_> widox: ok, watched the video and now I'm curious. It does a haptic feedback on the scrolling, so maybe it would be intersting to try
<snap-l> on the plus side, the account closing was pleasent enough
<widox> rick_h_: I'd try it out
<rick_h_> widox: yea, just ordered
<rick_h_> curse you widox !!! :P
<widox> rick_h_: hahaha
<widox> I'll be looking forward to CHC next week then :D
<jrwren> you got a touchmouse?
<rick_h_> that arch touch
<rick_h_> arc that is
<jrwren> i'm surprised you didn't go "pro"
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/dp/dp/B004HYGU18
<jrwren> you like that one because it goes flat?
<rick_h_> yea, it's nice/portable/space effecient
<rick_h_> ouch, 3 stars
<rick_h_> not a bit hit there
<greg-g> ok, the mouse I stole from a roommate is having the same issue
<greg-g> :/
<rick_h_> ruh roh...
<greg-g> time for a windows fix it attempt?
<rick_h_> so the laser goes out?
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> I mean, that's power and pure hardware I'd think
<rick_h_> on any usb port?
<rick_h_> have another usb device to try? camera, etc?
<greg-g> on port 1 (via a 4 port hub) on port 2, now trying port 3
<rick_h_> oh, skip the hub and see
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> yeah, port 2 and 3 were direct to laptop tries
<rick_h_> ok, was thinking the laptop was going bad, a hub is whatever
<greg-g> but, my keyboard is working fine via that hub
<rick_h_> on that same port the keyboard is using?
 * greg-g is confused
<rick_h_> swap keyboard/mouse and see which fails
 * greg-g is typuing typing typing
<greg-g> and no mouse
<rick_h_> oh, and happens with two diff mice?
<rick_h_> that's a wtf
<greg-g> I might have to do a windows tech support attempt
<greg-g> yep, two diff mice
<rick_h_> ok, I'm confused...carry on
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> power draw?
<jrwren> hard to believe the mouse would draw too much for a USB hub.
<greg-g> oh no way
<greg-g> the problem is gone after i plug in my laptop's power cord
<rick_h_> greg-g: oooooh
<jrwren> power!
<greg-g> wtf!
<rick_h_> that explains a lot then, yea many laptops don't output power on all ports when on battery
<rick_h_> keyboard < mouse
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> and the powered port was probably the one that was going to the hub, so it wasn't able to get enough
<greg-g> well then, at least I can get work done today at a reasonable speed :)
<jrwren> macbooks don't do this :)
<greg-g> (and without having to restart my laptop ;) )
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<rick_h_> anyone remember how to get the titlebar/edit controls back in virtualbox instance?
<rick_h_> I seemed to have clicked stretch vs adjust and now I can't get the control back to change it
<greg-g> right control?
<rick_h_> yea, that escapes the mouse pointer, but I need to reset teh UI itself
<rick_h_> ah, host-c fixes the scale mode
<rick_h_> strech that is, yay askubuntu
<greg-g> my Google activity report for my work account for the previous week: 358 mails sent (-2%) To 113 contacts
<rick_h_> yay for negative?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> still too much
<rick_h_> "it's a process" :P
<greg-g> but probably won't go down over the next few months, I'm taking up some tech team leadership responsibilities, so interfacing with the other managers of CC
 * krondor reads scrollback
<krondor> logitech can die, nothing for left handers :(  razer ftw and mice rule (lachesis for me, but taipan looks nice)
<krondor> my copperhead died this year
<rick_h_> hah, was watching dilbert on netflix and the whole lefty-righty thing made me laugh
<krondor> it's hard to go back to a non-gaming mouse after using one.  They're so fluid truly.
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> i like G500
<snap-l> krondor: Um, some of their mice can work well left-handed
<snap-l> usually it's the cheaper mice, though
<krondor> snap-l: yeah none of the G series for sure, and if you're going to make me pick a cheaper kind of friendly one versus a competitor...
<krondor> I tried the magic mouse briefly once, but I couldn't break the habit of lifting my right finger for left clicks.. I think that was a changeable setting maybe.  Meh
<snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/cube <- Finally, the mouse that doesn't care what hand you use.
<snap-l> I want to find the person who mapped CTRL-W to both Vim window commands and "delete previous word" and beat them
<rick_h_> yea, alias those away
<rick_h_> never hit ctrl-w in vim
<rick_h_> lol, that cube is funny
<greg-g> thought you all might like this, especially jrwren http://evanfarrer.blogspot.ca/2012/06/unit-testing-isnt-enough-you-need.html
<Milyardo> I don't get it, what does typing have to do with Unit Tests
<greg-g> did you read it?
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> "For me research I wanted to test the frequently cited claim by proponents of dynamically typed programming languages that static typing was not needed for detecting bugs in programs. The core of this claim is as follows:"
<Milyardo> Yeah I've read it, ignoring the fact thats a claim I've never heard before, the two subjects just are related
<Milyardo> *aren't
<greg-g> well, I thought it was simple: see if unit tests were able to catch all the bugs that static typing did. The answer is no.
<Milyardo> An analogous claim would be like saying in Physics, you don't have to check your answers because you performed dimensional analysis on the problem
<greg-g> its a master's thesis, doesn't need real world applicability right away ;)
<Milyardo> Thats because thats not what typing is for
<greg-g> fair
<greg-g> maybe he just wanted to produce another data point why Haskell > * :)
<rick_h_> yea, see the thing here is that it only takes into account a very select use/issue with programming and languages
<rick_h_> everything's a trade off and this doesn't take into account level of experience of dev, dev time, accessability for other devs to contribute to OSS, code readability, etc
<rick_h_> but yea, nothing surprising in here
<rick_h_> meh, write code, be happy, that's what I say
 * greg-g nods
 * brousch peers at rick_h_
<rick_h_> sorry, just don't need my code to pass a formal proof for correctness, but if you do, go for it
<rick_h_> I wish I knew/wrote haskell well, but I don't. Tried to get started twice and failed so must be I am missing brain cells for it
<snap-l> rick_h_: How are you with writing proofs?
 * rick_h_ looks over at his shelf to see if any of his old books are still around
<rick_h_> always hated proofs :P
<rick_h_> but did pass the classes
<snap-l> rick_h_: bingo
<rick_h_> no, I think it's that I can't incrementally get my head around it
<snap-l> Haskell always felt to me like you were writing proofs, not programming.
<rick_h_> anything I can think to code up is IO and as soon as you say "IO" in haskell you have to jump to the back of the book and dive in deep
<greg-g> interesting, I haven't really taken a gander at it
<rick_h_> and honestly, I gave it one honest shot and bought a second book I'm supposed to give it another shot one day
<rick_h_> but Go seems more useful to me so that's where I need to head
<greg-g> also interesting, given that is what Joey Hess chose to develop git-annex with
<rick_h_> yea, dave (Gnome Do fame) is a HUGE haskell junkie and did it a ton in school
<greg-g> (git-annex being IO intensive)
<greg-g> yeah, sounds like him too
<rick_h_> yea, I don't want to say you can't do IO, it's there
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> but it's not like getting to the chapter in Python on reading/writing files
<rick_h_> with open('myfile.txt') as fh: for l in fh: print l
<snap-l> Python follows a very Unix-style of i/o
<rick_h_> I tried to do some log file parsing/processing scripts and just couldn't get past step 2 in my first haskell attempt
<snap-l> so it's very straightforward for that mindset
<rick_h_> python is for idiots, I'm an idiot, carry on :)
<snap-l> Python makes me feel like an idiot savant
<rick_h_> meh, it's a mess. It's kind of slapped together to get crap done...but people smarter than the php folks that slapped stuff together to get $#@$@# done
<snap-l> rick_h_: programming perfectionis overrated
<snap-l> if we wanted OO perfection, we'd be talking about lisp and smalltalk
<snap-l> cue jrwren in 3...2..1..
<rick_h_> and with this I think I'm done for the day https://twitter.com/lrz/status/212236420499255296
<rick_h_> just threw up in my mouth a little
<greg-g> rick_h_: does vim really have much to do with that issue, though? isn't that handled by whatever terminal emulator you're using?
<greg-g> (font resolution/etc)
<rick_h_> greg-g: assuming they want gvim
<greg-g> oh, well then why didn't they say so?!
<brousch> macvim
<rick_h_> the retina stuff is funny, you need native app support/etc for it to use full resolution
<rick_h_> you can't just say "make my screen full 2880 res"
<greg-g> jerks who assume that their special little version of something is the canonical version annoy me
<greg-g> like, people who say "Adium me"
<greg-g> "FUCK YOU! I will not! I will IM you."
<rick_h_> want some scotch tape?
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> Ubuntu is Linux!
<jrwren> <3 lisp and smalltalk
<jrwren> i am a proud owner of CMCSA stock.
<jrwren> from this point forward you can call me out anytime I praise comcast.
<greg-g> SHILL!
<snap-l> probably want macvim
<snap-l> Mac terminal vim is kind of ugly in all respects.
<jrwren> why do you say that? its vim like another another.
<jrwren> but no py support. brew install vim if you aren't going to do macvim.
<snap-l> jrwren: It just didn't feel right to me.
<snap-l> Felt clunky, and just off from Linux vim
<snap-l> but indeed, I was using the built-in version
<snap-l> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Date-Selector-of-the-Damned.aspx
<jrwren> snap-l: i kinda know waht you mean, and I'm not sure.
<jrwren> but I prefer gvim to vim when possible
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a taste thing.
<snap-l> I find myself in plain terminal vim more than anything
<snap-l> even though I know gvim is slightly faster in rendering
<nullspace> rick_h_: you seriously dd-ed your /dev/sdb ?
<jrwren> where did I get the idea that None evals to false
<jrwren> he really did
<greg-g> this is a great use of browser location data: http://www.parks.ca.gov/ParkIndex/
<rick_h_> nullspace: yes, yes I did
<rick_h_> it does, if var where var == None will follow false case
<jrwren> if None: print "hi"
<jrwren> does not print :)
<jrwren> x=None;if x: print "hi" #also does not print
<rick_h_> None is false
<rick_h_> right, if (None) == False
<rick_h_> if not None: print "hi"
<rick_h_> will print
<jrwren> oh right.
<jrwren> i think I meant opposite.
<jrwren> what I actually had
<jrwren> x = someThingMightReturnNone()
<jrwren> if x:
<jrwren> and when x was not none, it didn't follow true path
<rick_h_> should, unless it came back something else false-ish
<jrwren> maybe the type that it did return overrides __whatever_it_is_for_truth__
<rick_h_> ""
<rick_h_> []
<brousch> Many things evaluate to False
<rick_h_> 0
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> i changed to if not x is none:
<jrwren> and i get the behavior I want
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, 'is' is good for None type thing
<jrwren> right.
<brousch> if x is not None
<rick_h_> he wants to do the opposite though
<rick_h_> oh right, brousch ftw
<rick_h_> you want to execute as long as the return value is not none
<jrwren> pylint doesn't warn me about it, so it isn't important :)
<rick_h_> so is not None ftw
<rick_h_> yes, readability ftw!
<rick_h_> change it!!!!!! we peer pressure you
<jrwren> write a pylint rule for it and I'll change it :)
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> anyone know offhand if elementree Element does override that __truthy_thing__ ?
<brousch> PEP8 page under Programming Recommendations uses "is not None"
<brousch> "Comparisons to singletons like None should always be done withÂ isÂ orÂ is not, never the equality operators. Also, beware of writingÂ if xÂ when you really meanÂ if x is not NoneÂ -- e.g. when testing whether a variable or argument that defaults to None was set to some other value. The other value might have a type (such as a container) that could be false in a boolean context!"
<jrwren> damn.
<rick_h_> jrwren: check for __bool__ and you can dir(el) to kind of see
<jrwren> hehe, I dont' know elementree well enough to do that quickly but its a good exersize for me.
<rick_h_> bpython
<rick_h_> from elementtree import fragment_fromstring
<jrwren> lol, yes yes.
<rick_h_> tree = fragment_fromstring('<div/')
<rick_h_> dir(tree)
<jrwren> oh, fragment_fromstring I don't know.
<jrwren> thanks.
<rick_h_> I use etree a lot in breadability for the html parsing/cleaning https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/blob/master/src/breadability/readable.py
<jrwren> that is different from ElementTree isn't it?
<jrwren> I don't see __bool__
<jrwren> yet it is not true
<jrwren> hrm... it does imple __dict__ and in both cases that __dict__ is empty. I'll bet that is it.
<jrwren> such b.s.
<jrwren> Caution: Elements with no subelements will test as False. This behavior will change in future versions. Use specific len(elem) or elem is None test instead.
<jrwren> its in teh docs.
<jrwren> I CAN READ!
<jrwren> i'm just glad that mystery is solved.
<jrwren> i would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you... element object coders.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> https://teespring.com/git-blame :)
<rick_h_> though can't muster the courage to buy a black t-shirt when it's 93 outside and I'm roasting from mowing the lawn
<nullspace> rick_h_: can't make it wife is telling me I can't go, can we do this next week
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-21
<rick_h_> nullspace: doh, dude!
<nullspace> rick_h_: sorry about this
<nullspace> she is having some stomach issues and doesn't want to be left alone
<nullspace> we can wait a week or work something out tomorrow as I've got a half day tomorrow
<rick_h_> yea, can't tomorrow. I can bring next week
<snap-l> http://miek.nl/files/go/
<snap-l> Blazeix: ^^
<Blazeix> thanks
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/a-vehicle-for-the-drummer-on-the-go
<rick_h_> the last paragraph ftw http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-June/120512.html
<snap-l> Um...
<snap-l> as a former system admin who liked the consistency of his system-level packages, I take issue with that. ;)
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Virtualenv and the package management make it very easy to get a level of consistency, but if one machine barfs on the "foour or five" commands, and leaves it in an inconsistent state, I want to a system that can get it back up to speed quickly
<rick_h_> I don't see how it does anything to the system. a simple rm -rf gets things cleaned up
<snap-l> I can do a quick rpm command to check the integrity of the package
<snap-l> and do a multi-ssh to see what versions of packages are on the system
<snap-l> with RPM or deb
<rick_h_> for p in packagedir; cat `bin/pip freeze`
<snap-l> I can also put additional scripts into the rpm or deb packages to do post-install cleanup
<snap-l> rick_h_: That assumes that pip didn't bomb halfway through
<snap-l> or that one of the files didn't get corrupted on dis
<snap-l> k
<snap-l> Developers have a hard time realizing that what their sysadmins do is more like a MASH unit
<snap-l> triage quickly, determine what can be salvaged, and work from there
<snap-l> And God help him if one of his 4 or 5 commands is "curl gihub.com/..."
<rick_h_> no no no, it's pip -e git@github....
<snap-l> fuck me
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Get Chris back on the show. There's a paddling waiting for him
<rick_h_> bookie used to do that to carry around a version of the parser stuff from git
<snap-l> but yes, virtualenv makes it very seductive to just go rm -rf virtualenvdir and reinstall
<snap-l> and if I was dealing with a package-level corruption, I'd probably do that first
<snap-l> possibly a mv to see what happened
<rick_h_> triage :)
<rick_h_> make clean && make
<rick_h_> there's your triage
<rick_h_> fail again...punt to the dev "it's broken!"
<snap-l> rick_h_: There is no punting to the dev at 3am. ;)
<rick_h_> make downtime
<rick_h_> that's `make downtime`
<snap-l> God, the fucking squirrels are randy.
<rick_h_> swaps out for a single served file that says "Sorry, we're currently unavailable...our dev broke crap"
<shakes808> Good morning
<rick_h_> dammit, going to go ape on this stupid library
<rick_h_> oh, and morning shakes808
<shakes808> rick_h_; looks like the morning is going well for you ;) .... I am going to guess that "stupid library" is referencing Django?
<rick_h_> no, pep381client
<rick_h_> it's doing stupid crap that I want to clean up but when I open the library it's even more stupid than I thought
<rick_h_> and...I'm going to have to install java. son of a ... (separate work item for the day)
<shakes808> lol. But Java is good. It contains caffine. You can get it all sorts of ways. I prefer mine in a Frap! :D  ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: Java? You finally moving the Eclipse like real coders?
<rick_h_> no, but the yui3 gallery build system uses ant
<rick_h_> so if I want to get my code into the yui3 gallery...an ant'ing we will go
<rick_h_> I'm having a good OSS day. Adding code to yui3 gallery for all to share/love.
<rick_h_> pep8/ing adding code to the pep381client
<brousch> You're a good man
<brousch> I got an email this morning. My PyOhio talk was accepted
<rick_h_> heh, we'll see how happy he is to get "PEP8 all the things!" as a MP comment
<brousch> rick_h_: I assume you also got an email
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, got the email
<rick_h_> you get in?
<brousch> I did
<rick_h_> awesome
<shakes808> brousch: congrats ;)
<brousch> Yeah, well yesterday I thoguht I was out and free. now the weight is back!
<rick_h_> https://github.com/alevchuk/vim-clutch so so awesome
<shakes808> which one did you end up deciding on? You should record it :D
<rick_h_> widox: Blazeix jrwren ^
<brousch> shakes808: PyOhio records and posts all videos
<rick_h_> shakes808: all the talks will be recorded and put on the site, pretty quick to
<rick_h_> they tend to get them up in 24-48hrs
<brousch> I don't know what to think about that pedal. It is so crazy, but so awesome
<rick_h_> yea, funny
<brousch> What other things can we take from sewing machines?
<brousch> So my problem is I have RLS and my legs bounce all day long. The pedal would not work for me
<brousch> Hah, awesome. I got a free parking pass for PyOhio from WingWare
<rick_h_> awesome!
<brousch> Everything's coming up brousch today!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh FFS (was re: Vim Clutch)
<snap-l> Even better: using the CC share alike as your license for software.
<snap-l> Ah Oracle, and your fucking extension packs for Virtualbox
<snap-l> it's like a EULA hug every month
<brousch> Those are annoying
<brousch> snap-l: After listening to my friend's podcast, I would like to change my vote from "Maybe" to "Yes" on if I would listen to a classical music podcast. http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OpenLicensedMusic/~3/Nj5PbU9cAGo/episode-3-cartoon-music.html
<snap-l> brousch: Why the sudden change of heart? :)
<brousch> That is a classical music episode, and I enjoyed it
<snap-l> Ah, OK. :)
<brousch> D00d, where's tjagoda? http://pc-gaming.dcemu.co.uk/rim-discounting-its-16gb-playbook-down-to-169-from-499-468442.html
<snap-l> If you ever want to get a Python list flowing again, just start talking about distutils.
<snap-l> sheesh
<jrwren> lol @ vim-clutch
<snap-l> Bwahahaha... one of the samples on this song by Intermix: "SIt your $5 ass down before I make change"
<jrwren> what intermix song? I thought I had all their albums.
<snap-l> I think it's Funky Hell on Phase Two
<snap-l> er, sorry, Phaze Two
<snap-l> I only have that one
<snap-l> Sheesh, keeping up with Bill Leeb is almost a full-time job. ;)
<brousch> I think I'm going to print out rick_h_'s bookie Makefile and tape it to my monitor for reference
<rick_h_> brousch: clean it up while you're at it please
<snap-l> rick_h_: It'd be like correcting the spelling mistakes of the bible.
<snap-l> or correcting the perspective of the Mona Lisa
<snap-l> unthinkable.
<rick_h_> I'm letting my boy down http://goo.gl/EppiF
<brousch> snap-l: More like correcting Shakespeare's grammar
<jrwren> now i have intermix in my head
<brousch> rick_h_: Letting him down because you gave him a GUI right away?
<rick_h_> because I've not taught him bash and put him behind a computer at all and he's coming up on 3
<greg-g> rick_h_: is that the john goerzen post?
<rick_h_> shoot, he just started getting to watch a movie about 2mo ago
<rick_h_> greg-g: not sure, some guy with this 3yr old loading up startx/xmonad/tuxpaint
<greg-g> ah, yeah, that post is great
<greg-g> that's the guy who wrote offlineimap
<rick_h_> ah, nice
<greg-g> yeah, good guy
<brousch> rick_h_: OMG, you have already stunted his development!
<brousch> Mine was using Gnome as soon as he could sit up. Now he uses ChromeOS
 * rick_h_ hangs head in shame
<jrwren> good luck.
<brousch> But you need to have computers that you don't mind being destroyed, because it will happen
<jrwren> my 5yo barely has mouse skills.
<jrwren> i'm hoping she gets better when she can read so I can show her some BASIC
<brousch> George is 4 and is quite good on the touchpad
<greg-g> yeah, I'm keeping my old ps/2 keyboard just for Rowan
<brousch> He learns to spell the words most important to him so he can type them in youtube "thomas" "muppets" "star wars"
<rick_h_> "son, this is a unicomp...it's built like a tank. Yes, that's a challenge..."
<greg-g> this x200s will probaby be his first comp :)
<brousch> also his password, which is a mixture of letters and numbers
<greg-g> is it l33t sp3@k?
<brousch> Once he was able to do things on his own computer (Youtube, Nick jr, PBS Kids) he stopped climbing on my wife and I when we were on our computers
<greg-g> "Finally! ME TIME! Only took 4 years"
<brousch> Nah, 2.5
<brousch> That's why you start them early ;)
<greg-g> whew
<greg-g> only 2 more years to go
<brousch> Assuming you don't have another one in the meantime
<greg-g> my alone time now is post 8:30 and that doesn't last long since I'm definitely waking up before 6am
<greg-g> right
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, kid bedtime ftw!
<brousch> I got some tea and a tea steeping thingy at Teavana. Some of this tea tastes like coolaid
<brousch> Currently drinking iced http://www.teavana.com/the-teas/rooibos-teas/p/opus-rouge-rooibos-tea
<snap-l> brousch: We warned you.
<brousch> It's good!
<greg-g> Kool-aid tea? not for me
<brousch> More like a fruit drink
<brousch> With a little sour
<brousch> Ah, geez, look at this monstrosity http://www.giving.umich.edu/news/ezine/LBP_Spring2012/
<brousch> Are the Twitters broke?
<rick_h_> yea, been breaking today
<rick_h_> working here for me atm though
<jrwren> oh, i thought it was my network going wonkie
<rick_h_> no, it's on HN and such
<brousch> I get all my news through Twitter
<brousch> Ah geez. Django changed the project layout in 1.4. Now stuff has shifted around
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> much nicer now
<jrwren> because brousch loves responsive design: http://aids.gov
<brousch> You are giving me AIDS because I like responsive design?
<jrwren> nope
<jrwren> its a great example
 * greg-g hangs head
<brousch> pretty nice
<_stink_> greg-g++
<jrwren> you guys have aids?
<jrwren> I didn't know.
<brousch> Is it normal to end up with leaves and such in my tea after I pour it?
<jrwren> hrm... lets see.  tea in cup, water of tea, poor water over tea, yup, there will be tea leaves since you put 'em tehre.
<brousch> seems excessive
<brousch> maybe i'll pull the basket out first
<jrwren> basket?
<jrwren> oh you are using an infuser?
<brousch> I guess. It's a little metal mesh basket that keeps the leaves out of the tea, but when I pour some of the leaves go out too
<brousch> So if I remove the infuser first it should keep the leaves out
<jrwren> i don't use those, so I don't know :)
<brousch> Ah, much better. Only 1 leaf
<brousch> And the container has a little holder for the basket when it's out of the water, so I guess this is the right way
<jrwren> damn, you are making me want tea
<brousch> This flavor seems to have no actual tea in it
<brousch> http://www.teavana.com/the-teas/herbal-teas/p/pineapple-kona-pop-herbal-tea
<brousch> They had some freakish teas that come in a little ball, then in the the water they open into what looks like a whole plant and flower http://www.teavana.com/tea-products/tea-cups-mugs/travel-tea-cups/p/teavana-tea-rhapsody-glass-tea-tumbler?cm_sp=Recos-_-ProductPage-_-1&cm_vc=pdpz1
<snap-l> MB Temperature:    +61.0Â°C  (high = +45.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<snap-l> Wondering if I should just shut it down
<rick_h_> ok, how rude am I?
<greg-g> quite
<rick_h_> ok, then I'm going to do this
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> https://github.com/buriy/python-readability/issues/23#issuecomment-6489123
<rick_h_> as long as I'm keeping in character
<rick_h_> and booya! for my port working where the original fails! :)
<brousch> I cannot upvote your comment. Lame.
<rick_h_> and sweet to have the webui to just check how I do rendering that page :)
<rick_h_> lmao https://plus.google.com/photos/104234302931579992973/albums/5756568210679822001/5756568210416502146
<greg-g> rick_h_++
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-22
<snap-l> http://clientsfromhell.net/post/25594840666/i-was-meeting-with-a-potential-client-who-had-a
<shakes808> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<nullspace> morning all
<rick_h_> TGIF everyone
<nullspace> rough week?
<rick_h_> yea, busy as all can be.
<rick_h_> that and 90s ugh!
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> friday party
<rick_h_> already disagreeing with people woot!
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> rick_h_: I thought that was every day? :)
<rick_h_> well, I usually wait until closer to lunch
<snap-l> Hah
<brousch> I have a feeling I'll  be buying my next computer from whichever vendor offers computers without secureboot
<snap-l> brousch: Good luck with that
<brousch> Maybe by that point I will just have a VPS and a tablet
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> secure boot at its best
<brousch> We'll all have a virtual desktop on Amazon and an iPad
<snap-l> What I love is we've come full circle
<snap-l> we grew up in the PC age, when the PC was democratizing the usage of computers
<snap-l> and everyone was figuring out how to get off of the expensive mainframes and time-sharing systems
<snap-l> and now we're moving things into the cloud, and locking down our PC machines so a single vendor can tell us what to do
<snap-l> Hate to say it, but RMS is dead right on this
<brousch> indeed
<jrwren> rick_h_: i don't quite grok that yui node library. is it just nicer functions for dom manipulation?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's kind of the jquery part of YUI
<rick_h_> but the idea is that I was in my code checking if you give my method a string, then I'd Y.one(string)
<rick_h_> and get a node instance so I could do stuff to it
<rick_h_> but if you gave me an already loaded node, I skipped it
<rick_h_> so lots of if checks/etc
<rick_h_> but Y.one() already checks if you gave it anode
<rick_h_> so I got to delete a bunch of conditional code this morning
<jrwren> ah, cool.
<jrwren> function  behavior overloaded on input parameter type.
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> I am using that a tiny bit in python, and I think I don't like it.
<jrwren> I think in python I should prefer named params
<rick_h_> yea, it's not generally done in python world
<jrwren> named and default I mean
<rick_h_> yea, **kwargs and all that
<jrwren> its not pythonic IMO
<jrwren> i was going to ask you about it yesterday...
<jrwren> today is good, I'll fix that ugly
<rick_h_> cool sure thing
<rick_h_> yea, JS doesn't have some of that ability that python does so it has to do more manual cruft
<jrwren> makes sense.
<jrwren> in js I"d be doing this code VERY differently :)
<rick_h_> I'm sure
<rick_h_> I've been having a tough time getting python devs to do good JS lately so I know that battle
<brousch> JS is annoying. semicolons, too many braces, no default arguments
<jrwren> i love all those things about js
<jrwren> functional
<jrwren> awesome
<jrwren> functional
<rick_h_> the lack of default args is messy because you end up just with a single argument cfg
<jrwren> prototypical inheritence, yay
<rick_h_> and doing a lot of var val = cfg.val || 'default'
<jrwren> that isn't so bad.
<jrwren> i do the same damn thing in python
<rick_h_> prefixed by a var config = cfg || {}
<rick_h_> yea, but for each value, ugh
<jrwren> def foo(arg=None):if arg is None: arg = blah
<brousch> barbaric
<rick_h_> yea, but it should be more
<snap-l> I'd rather have to type self. for the rest of my life than var = function{
<jrwren> not me.
<rick_h_> def foo(**kwargs): arg = kwargs.get('arg', 'default')
<rick_h_> at least
<rick_h_> and that's only if you have a bunch of possible kwargs
<jrwren> but then you HAVE to use kwargs
<rick_h_> I've come to actually like self
<snap-l> It's self mutilation. ;)
<snap-l> or self love
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, because 95% of the time you don't need kwargs because you're not passing more than 3-4 args to a method
<snap-l> take your pick
<jrwren> right, but if you hare 3-4 args, each with defaults, that is a lot of checking the defaults
<rick_h_> no, you don't have to check defaults, that's the point of defaults
 * rick_h_ is confused...pastebin!
<jrwren> you do if you are assigning mutable defaults
<rick_h_> well stop that :P
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> you use None and then assign a new mutable instance
<rick_h_> then the default is None and yes, you have to check for None
<jrwren> but objects are mutable by default
<rick_h_> right, but default objects? that seems strange I guess
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> i don't discriminate between primitives and other types
<rick_h_> I'm thinking, it just strikes me as odd, but yea I don't have a good reason atm
<rick_h_> guess I just haven't run into a ton of that and when I have it's not seemed odd
<rick_h_> you're right, lack of discrimination ftw
<jrwren> its very common when you inject dependencies but then optionally allow non-injected instantiation
<rick_h_> yea, and I guess my stuff I've worked on just tends to enforce you inject the right thing
<brousch> I'll have to look up depeendency injection one of these days. I have no idea what it is, but I see people saying it often
<jrwren> its DEAD trivial.
<jrwren> i recommend asking rick_h_ rather than look it up
<jrwren> becuase looking it up tends to confuse people and there is WAY too much poor writing out there on it.
<jrwren> or ask me, but you see me rarely :p
<rick_h_> ugh, welcome to zope
<jrwren> bad docs zope?
<rick_h_> bad DI...waaay to much
<brousch> jrwren: I see you every day, right here
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> Ahahahahahahahah: Dependency injection From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Not to be confused withÂ Code injection. This articleÂ may be tooÂ technicalÂ for most readers to understand. Please helpÂ improveÂ this article toÂ make it understandable to non-experts, without removing the technical details. TheÂ talk pageÂ may contain suggestions.Â (January 2010)
<jrwren> i have to wonder if zope wasn't largely written by people who did a lot of java and then started writing java in python
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I can't help but put that label on our devs
<jrwren> brousch: i'll try a description when I get to the office, in a bit :)
<brousch> Doesn't Zope pre-date java?
<rick_h_> and when they get to writing JS it's so horrid
<jrwren> no, zope is old, but not THAT old.
<rick_h_> I'd say DI at a simple level is that rather than pass a User object into a method, you have a DI container that holds a "Person"
<rick_h_> somewhere in your code you pass in a LoggedInUser into that Person container
<jrwren> that is one sweet thing about my new job... they use review board, if someone doesn't do things the right way, people talk about it on the patch and things get done the right way
<rick_h_> and when the code wants to access it, it asks the DI container for whatever is currently in the container for "Person"
<jrwren> no!
<jrwren> containers are not part of DI at all.
<jrwren> see... confusing topic!
<brousch> Zope Corp formed in 1995, Java released in 1995
<rick_h_> yea, it is hard to break down into a "3 line" thing
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> a container typically does the injection for you, but you can do DI entirely manually and its definition can stand alone without containers.
<rick_h_> zope is very like this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_injection#Automatically_injected_dependency
<rick_h_> yea, true.
<rick_h_> where DI is nice is in testing
<rick_h_> but outside of that I find it just compliated
<rick_h_> and with the flexibility of langs like Python/JS I prefer mock/patch over DI ime
<jrwren> brousch: DI is simple: say type A needs a type B. Instead of instantiating B itself by calling constructor, it asks for a B to be sent to it, usually via constructor param.
<jrwren> so you've injected the dependency B into type A
<jrwren> its also called inversion of control
<rick_h_> thus jrwren's issues with needing to allow for a mutable object as a default value in an arg
<jrwren> because now instead of A controlling instantiation of that B instance, the control is inverted to the instantiator of A
<rick_h_> where it really belongs
<jrwren> right.
<rick_h_> since A cannot possibly know all cases of how B shold come to be
<jrwren> exactly.
<brousch> I do that all the time
<rick_h_> and if you try to make it do that, A and B are so tighly coupled they might as well be one class
<jrwren> its really OO 101, but sadly a lot of OO folks don't learn it and keep on newing up spagetti dependency
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> reduce tight coupling
<brousch> Damn complicated pattern names
<rick_h_> and testing is nice because you can create a stub/mock B and pass it to A and check that it does what it should
<jrwren> in java and C# it enabled interface development, in python it enabled duck typing, because now B can be anything that quacks the way A needs B to quack
<rick_h_> where if A was creating B, you don't have control of B and have a harder time testing A
<jrwren> ok, i drive to office now :)
<rick_h_> enjoy
<brousch> Thanks
<brousch> I think I get it, and have been doing it for a while
<rick_h_> yea, it can get very complicated though
<rick_h_> but yea, the idea is pass in what something needs vs creating it inside
<rick_h_> but then you can end up with long lists of args, default values issues, etc
<brousch> I see
<rick_h_> what's the bash variable to reuse the result of the last command?
<rick_h_> locate something
<rick_h_> [get result]
<rick_h_> vim $? or something to open that result
<brousch> $? i think
<rick_h_> ended up cheating, vim `!!`
<jrwren> but the longs lists can be good things.
<jrwren> its a warning sign that maybe there is too much responsibility in that type
<jrwren> $? is the error code.
<jrwren> not sure what other result there is in a bash command.
<krondor> I think it's $(!!)
<jrwren> bash captures stdout and lets you reuse it?
<rick_h_> no, !! is just rerunning the last command
<rick_h_> I think I was just recaling the !! tricks
<krondor> ls /etc/hosts && cat $(!!) seems to work for me (simple test)
<rick_h_> right, and `!!` does a similar thing
<krondor> ah ok, nevermind I see
<jrwren> no fooling with ls!
<jrwren> if you had picked any command other than ls it owuld have been obious
<krondor> yeah
<jrwren> echo /etc/hosts && cat $(!!)
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> $() is just subshell
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> so combining it with !! won't get you much.
<jrwren> i fancy myself a bash master, but I've never mastered ! commands
<jrwren> seems like every other area of bash I have a handle on
<krondor> kind of ugly but what about capturing the output to a variable?
<jrwren> only way I know is that.
<jrwren> but I think he long since moved on.
<krondor> anytime I've needed last output instead of redirection I've been doing something in Perl anway.  Hadn't really thought of that in bash.
<jrwren> perl, nom nom
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, I just felt like there had to be a better way to fire vim off a locate command result
<rick_h_> without copy/paste/etc
<jrwren> well subshell, jus tlike you said.
<jrwren> but once you ran the locate once, it is too late.
<jrwren> you'll have to run again
<rick_h_> yea, but it's off a cached state so no worries
<rick_h_> <3 locate
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> yeah <3 locate
<rick_h_> <3 locate more on ssd
<jrwren> its one of the first things I turn on.
<jrwren> yup, on ssd it is amazing.
<jrwren> which is rather telling
<jrwren> AFAIK locate just finds all teh files on your system then greps a text file
<jrwren> it could REALLY be made faster if it hashed storage
<jrwren> or indexed
<jrwren> but I guess that is challenging because how do you index on *blah* ?
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> i'd like to read some research on that if anyoen knows
<jrwren> i guess ngram indexes *sigh*
<rick_h_> all the rage
<jrwren> is it?
<jrwren> i've never heard of it, hehe
<rick_h_> well, there was a couple diff fulltext talks at pycon
<rick_h_> and everyone doing fulltext is going to ngrams since you get better non-english and partial match support
<rick_h_> Search: foobar
<rick_h_> match indexes on foo oob oba bar
<rick_h_> I see you wanted 'food' yay
<jrwren>  excellent.
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> i never knew that full text search was doing ngrams
<rick_h_> not all, but it's a big option these days
<rick_h_> helps with non-english since you're more likely to hit matches with a few characters, takes less natural language processing to do
<jrwren> thanks rick_h_ you rock as always
<rick_h_> I find that stuff interesting. One day I'll get off my butt and tinker with it
<jrwren> me too.
<rick_h_> got into it a litle bit when trying to setup fulltext search for bookie
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> and lucene is great, except for the jvm part
<jrwren> i'd love something else.
<jrwren> a rethinking of hte problem.
<jrwren> i think it is about time
<rick_h_> http://packages.python.org/Whoosh/api/analysis.html?highlight=ngram#whoosh.analysis.NgramAnalyzer
<rick_h_> so you can see there are several different analyzers available to use
<jrwren> interesting.
<jrwren> i've only done ngram analysis in the context of nucleotides and amino acids
<jrwren> but tokenizing is easy
<rick_h_> compare the ngram to the stemming and you kind of see a little bit the common bits
<jrwren> building results is not
<rick_h_> yea, exactly. This is all about tokenizing the content and the query terms
<rick_h_> and you get vastly different sized data sets to go through based on these
<MaskedDriver> anybody here speak fluent german?
<rick_h_> my wife, but she's at work
<MaskedDriver> ok
<greg-g> rick_h_: whoa, didn't know that[5~
<rick_h_> greg-g: she was a german major at UM, spent a year abroad for school. Med students get to have fun undergrad degrees
<rick_h_> her family and my grandmother come from germany so thanksgiving is usually a bunch of sentences started in english and ending in german so I just smile and nod my head
<greg-g> oh nice :)
<MaskedDriver> nvm, my buddy from Deutschland came through
<rick_h_> cool
<derekv> I always want it to be #ubunutu-mi-us for like ubuntu.mi.us
<derekv> I'm sortof sad you never see .mi.us anymore
<derekv> i used to have an email in high school that was like derek@mhs.bloomfield.k12.mi.us or somesuch
<MaskedDriver> I had freytag@archbold.k12.oh.us
<MaskedDriver> ohhh memories
<MaskedDriver> they have such a terrible site
<snap-l> Most educational sites are only one step removed from a geocities site
<greg-g> everything you hated about geocities, without the geocities
<jrwren> ohio!
<rick_h_> abentley: huh?
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: yeah, born and raised. just moved here a year ago
<brousch> MaskedDriver: You some kind of Buckeye fan?
<MaskedDriver> graduated from OSU and then worked there for 2 years
<MaskedDriver> so you could say that
<jrwren> *gasp*
<jrwren> so you secretly hate us all.
<MaskedDriver> depends
<MaskedDriver> are you an UM fan or MSU?
<jrwren> both
<MaskedDriver> then I only hate half of you ;)
<jrwren> would you shake my hand?
<MaskedDriver> does the left side of your brain like UM or MSU?
<jrwren> or would you spit in my face and turn around and walk away like an OSU nut?
<MaskedDriver> I'd shake your hand
<MaskedDriver> I'm not one of the nut jobs
<jrwren> oh, ok.
<MaskedDriver> we lose a game, I shrug and go back to my video games
<jrwren> welcome to michigan
<MaskedDriver> pure michigan
<brousch> I am scared in Columbus. I park my van with my U-M license plate against the wall so hooligans don't vandalize me
<MaskedDriver> eh, yeah probably wise
<Milyardo> Where I come the the closest rivalry we have that anywhere near the fanaticism that UM vs MSU fans have is Navy vs Army.
<Milyardo> even then it's no where near as bad, I don't understand it
<MaskedDriver> what I love is that UM and MSU hate each other more than UM hates OSU, but we hate UM with every fiber of our being
<MaskedDriver> it doesn't make sense
<MaskedDriver> we should hate Florida more than UM. They beat us in the national championship TWICE in one year!
<MaskedDriver> football and then basketball
<brousch> MaskedDriver: Everybody wants us to be their rival: MSU, OSU, Notre Dame, Penn State
<brousch> That is because we are the most awesome
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> we've got Meyer now... he's going ot make the Tressle era look like the Cooper era
<brousch> I have no idea what that means
<MaskedDriver> Urban Meyer.. our new coach
<brousch> I really don't give a crap about sports. I'm just stirring the pot
<Milyardo> ^
<MaskedDriver> ah
<MaskedDriver> Urban Meyer has a 104-23 overall record and a 7-1 bowl game record
<MaskedDriver> he's kinda a big deal
<MaskedDriver> I don't really care abotu sports either, but all my friends are, so I know a thing or two
<Milyardo> High end World of Warcraft Guild Progression: Now that's a competative sport!
<Milyardo> One that matters too
<brousch> That matters even less than real sports
<MaskedDriver> Milyardo: or SWTOR end-game PVP stats
<Milyardo> As if SWTOR has a end game
<MaskedDriver> it does
<MaskedDriver> just whiney kids complain that it's too repetitive.......
<MaskedDriver> gear up and quit your bitchin'
<MaskedDriver> you mean I have to PVP over and over again to get PVP gear?! NO WAY!
<MaskedDriver> why can't I just buy it for credits?!
<MaskedDriver> Bioware: le'sigh.. fine, here's some starter PVP gear you can buy with credits
<MaskedDriver> whiners: BUT I'M NOT GOOD! We should be able to buy Battlemaster gear with credits!
<MaskedDriver> Bioware: le'sigh.. fine, you can buy schematics to craft PVP gear for credits
<MaskedDriver> whiners: But it doesn't come with any enhancements and I have to be Rank level 50!!!
<MaskedDriver> Bioware: diaf
<Milyardo> I know nothing about SWTOR PVP, but people whine in everygame
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> "casuals" ruining stuff for everybody
<jrwren> i'm hating on pthon again.
<jrwren> i'm setting ElementTree.Element instance's text attr and then writing and its not working!
<jrwren> i want ot punch python in the face.
<jrwren> such a waste
<brousch> Blame XML
<jrwren> how can I when teh same dom manip calls work in every other language/lib I"ve used
<jrwren> Starcraft2 > SWTOR for esports.
<snap-l> Python and XML are not the best of buddies
<jrwren> yay, works in bpython. WTF
<snap-l> jrwren: Are you sure you're using the right version of Python?
<snap-l> You might have escaped your venv
<jrwren> nah, i'm just an idiot.
<jrwren> write bad code, get bad results. simple h?
<jrwren> i take it all back.
<jrwren> of course it si PEBCAK
<snap-l> well, that saves me from apologizing for Python. ;)
<jrwren> i'm sorry python.
<jrwren> i'm sorry for calling you waste and wanting ot punch you in teh face
<snap-l> Python forgives you
<snap-l> as opposed to PHP, which thinks you're a dirty whore.
<jrwren> php knows its own kind
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> I don't know what it is about Daft Punk's Tron Legacy Soundtrack, but I feel like a programming badass when it's on.
<jrwren> you should try mind in a box's R.E.T.R.O.
<snap-l> jrwren: Will do
<derekv> XML is not the best of buddies with clear thinking, or getting things done
<derekv> XML gets in the way of creating software
<greg-g> I get in the way of creating software
<jrwren> snap-l: the album (and all their albums) are suposed to tell a story
<jrwren> i don't really grod it a lot, but 8 bits and i love 64 are awesome.
<jrwren> i love 64 is espeically fun, its about an 8 bit wanting to upgrade to 64 "something I couldn't even comprehend" :)
<nullspace> I'm currently liking nervous testpilot
<jrwren> what is that?
<derekv> if someone has a better name than "android bookie" or "bookie for android" lemme know
<rick_h_> AndBookie
<rick_h_> BookieDriod
<rick_h_> If it works out I'd say you could just go for Bookie
<derekv> I needs to get it to log in
<derekv> then upload bookmarks
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> don't actually need login, just a form to store your username/api key
<rick_h_> and then you build the urls with those params in mind
<derekv> yea
<rick_h_> so on first use you'd have to store those to values, bonus points for the api url so that it can be used with your own install
<rick_h_> damn, spent a couple of hours tracing a test failure only to find out it's because I wasn't clearing the fulltext index.
<brousch> Bmark app is free. Use your own server version is $9.99
<rick_h_> whoosh won't return results for words that are too common, so as we built up a bunch of the same bookmark, phrases got too common and just stopped returning
<rick_h_> that took a bit to figure out
<brousch> rick_h_: Ahahahah, that is funny
<derekv> currently it does work, it just pulls the most recent bookmarks from the main feed and displays them in a list
<derekv> oh
<derekv> yea
<derekv> I spent over an hour to find a capatalization error in an xml config file
<derekv> absolutely no error or warning about it anywhere just failing to read the configuration
<rick_h_> what's funny is that I'd runthe failing test and it'd pass
<rick_h_> so I started working backwards enabling tests one at a time
<rick_h_> and suddenly it'd fail, just as it crossed that threshhold
<rick_h_> and I couldn't find any connection between the most recently added test and the failing one
<rick_h_> still, glad the code is fine, just need better test cleanup
<brousch> rick_h_: That deserves a blog post
<rick_h_> that requires effort :P
<rick_h_> but yea
<derekv> meanwhile ... one preferences activity coming up
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> derekv: you get something working and make sure you update that amazon wishlist :)
<derekv> =p
<brousch> derekv: You using plain old Android or something like PhoneGap?
<rick_h_> Java baby
<derekv> brousch, native
<derekv> native java
 * rick_h_ is excited
<derekv> I don't want to bother learning phonegap etc
<derekv> for one thing
<derekv> Just not the route I want to go.
<brousch> Well if you already know Java that makes sense
<derekv> I wouldn't tell someone else not to learn phonegap (I don't know I've never used it)
<derekv> Or to just put the effort into their mobile site
<derekv> But i'm more of a low level guy
<brousch> Good people to have around
<derekv> I like going into kernel source sometimes
<rick_h_> getting close, 86/90 passing tests
<devinheitmueller> derekv: join the dark side.  We have cookies.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> devinheitmueller: What's the dark side?
<devinheitmueller> brousch: kernel development.
<brousch> Ah!
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: used to come to CHC where he'd bring cool usb-tv devices to hack on
<rick_h_> then he went back to NY...traitor!
<derekv> devinheitmueller, I thought you meant the opposite.  like Join the Web Development side, we have cookies
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> The Morlocks of programmers
<devinheitmueller> It's true, the web development side does have cookies, in a different pun-like manner.
<rick_h_> less yummy
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: Thanks.  In fairness, the New York people thought I was being a traitor by going to Michigan.
<rick_h_> oh hell yea! All tests pass with the new alembic based migrations and such
<derekv> rick_h_, should I set default server to bmark.us or let people enter it
<rick_h_> derekv: so it needs to be the api endpoint which I default to https://bmark.us/api/v1
<derekv> I figured on appending /api/v1 to what they entered
<rick_h_> well, honestly at this point they can't change anything
<rick_h_> but one of the bugs we've got is following proper domain subdirs and such
<rick_h_> so I just keep the whole endpoint as people might have their points be strange
<rick_h_> derekv: you're probably good either way
<derekv> hmm, so it might not be /api/v1 ?
<derekv> there will be time to fiddle with that
<jrwren> i just figured out why my test was passing when I thought it should fail.
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, I guss that would be consistant until we change the version one day
<jrwren> confused x with self.x in a test. i'm so sick of my python nubness
<rick_h_> if they were at mysite.com/bookie/ you'd still be cool with $url/api/v1
<rick_h_> don't use single letter variable names? :)
<derekv> what I do is use single variable names but different numbers of underscores based on the scope context
<derekv> like ___y is a global
 * derekv ducks
<derekv> five is for a goto label
<derekv> goto _____z
<greg-g> haha
<derekv> by limiting myself to 26 variables per scope I end up with cleaner code
<rick_h_> ah, a damn good branch: Showing 48 changed files with 572 additions and 1,154 deletions.
<brousch> wow
<greg-g> merge those branches more often!
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_> well, rolling up all the db migrations in bookie into two fresh ones using alembic vs sqlalchemy-migations
<rick_h_> so it's cheating, but does mean a lot fewer lines of code/simpler/etc
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> woot! https://crate.io/packages/breadability/ vs https://crate.io/packages/readability-lxml/ I'm coming after you
<rick_h_> ok, so 1 day of a package vs my 5 isn't fair :P
<derekv> hmm maybe a swipe left/swipe right to go between different feeds
<derekv> like how some twitter apps work
<derekv> I got a prefs screen up now
<derekv> Not wired to anything yet
<rick_h_> derekv: cool
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, I'd imagine maybe defaulting to mine, swipe to all, swipe to search or something?
<rick_h_> and then the ability to select an item and load the readable view
<rick_h_> bah, fixed the docs, missed that they weren't building correctly
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-23
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> g
<greg-g> g'morning
<snap-l> http://caesar120.deviantart.com/gallery/
<jrwren> morning
<jrwren> what ya'll up to?
<greg-g> typing horribly since going from my kinesis to laptop
<rick_h_> heh, yea it's always an adjustment
<rick_h_> it's the one drawback, but then you try to figure out is the time being more ergo worth it over the next 40 rs
<rick_h_> yrs
<snap-l> Whew.
<snap-l> Moved my office around some
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Moved the filing cabinet over so it's within swivel distance
<snap-l> so I'll be more apt to file something and not just let it sit
<snap-l> Only problem is now I have a UPS pile over on the other side, which was conveniently covered up
<snap-l> Never fails
<snap-l> Ah wel, it'll take some adjustment
<snap-l> Always a PITA to get everything the way you want.
<brousch> snap-l: I'm using the squeezeboxserver to serve videos and music to my new blueray player
<brousch> but it's going crazy on the IO right now. indexing?
<snap-l> Videos?
<snap-l> Wasn't aware that Squeezebox supported video playback
<snap-l> brousch: It'll tekll you when it's indexing. IT should have a line near the bottom witn a status.
<snap-l> God bles B&N for selling headphones
<snap-l> otherwise I think I might strangle a few people in the cafe.
<brousch> snap-l: It served a few videos
<snap-l> THat's interesting
<snap-l> What model Blueray player?
<brousch> panasonic, has dlna built-in
<snap-l> Is the Squeezebox sending stuff via dlna?
<brousch> served it to droid via bubbleupnp too
<brousch> yes
<brousch> squeezeboxserver
<snap-l> Oh that's sweet
 * snap-l is trying to finish up this article
<brousch> i can also serve from droid to tv
<brousch> nifty
<snap-l> YEah, DLNA is starting to pick up some steam
<snap-l> still love my Squeezebox. :)
<brousch> panasonic is not happy with a few of the videos
<brousch> which is weird because it plays the same file off of SD fine
<brousch> squeezeboxserver is a little glitchy, but i think it might be indexing
<snap-l> Also check your network bandwidth
<brousch> 100mbps
<snap-l> Also check your network bandwidth
<snap-l> make sure you're actually getting that bandwidth
<brousch> :P
<brousch> i had some stutters on 1080p h264 video
<snap-l> Think about that for a sec. ;)
<brousch> it did not stutter over wifi to the droid
<brousch> well, no stutters until it siezed up completely
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-24
<brousch> ok, minidlna is way better. smaller and faster
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I wouldn't use the Squeezebox server for DLNA
<snap-l> interesting that it worked
<snap-l> but definitely check out the audio clients
<jrwren> i run squeeze all day at work
<jrwren> i just wish the web interface was a little nicer and a little quicker
<snap-l> Yeah, it is a little long in the tooth
<snap-l> but it works, and on my system it is low-footprint
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> it works great and is awesome.
<snap-l> brousch: Which version of the Squeezebox server were you running?
<brousch> dunno. whatever was on the web site
<snap-l> http://meridionalerecordings.bandcamp.com/album/antropofagus-blues
<snap-l> "Vanir is drug abuse, pure decadence. Sounds like putting a cat into a pool of blood. Metal is for children, satan is for dummies."
<snap-l> And this sounds like what happens when you put a bus station in a feedback loop
<snap-l> http://viralconspiracyrecords.bandcamp.com/album/the-desastamasta-th3-s3cond-fiv3 <- Iswear, I need to put in a google exception for this label
<snap-l> I hav nothing against them putting out their music, but man, it puts me right off
<derekv> i don't like, i keep programming in a style like the java conventional style
<derekv> since thats what most people use
<derekv> but the brakets on the end of the line look really stupid
<derekv> even after seeing it for like a year
<snap-l> Try the Pascal style, where the bracket is on a separate line. :)
<derekv> what makes me want to pull my hair is that people put the bracket on the end of the line, but then leave a blank line anyways
<derekv> yea braken goes on new line
<derekv> frankly the easiest to look at is gnu style http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style#GNU_style
<derekv> the indentation
<derekv> ohhh wait
<derekv> that space
<derekv> gnu style has that space, I never realized that... how come I never noticed that
<derekv> its horrible
<derekv> yea frankly if your going to do the braket at the end of the line instead of the newline the go full lisp/python style http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style#Lisp_style
<derekv> but without that space
<derekv> man
<derekv> if I ever run a company
<derekv> i'm going to have my own style guidelines
<derekv> and there is going to be no discussion about it
<derekv> I'm going to that lambda lounge thing weds
<derekv> I might start using the underscore for private class variables
<derekv> I saw it in some java code recently and at first was like, thats unnessisary
<derekv> but now I've been thinking about it as I write code and I think it makes sense
<derekv> I'm so glad I did that app for soundcloud
<derekv> and I'm doing this bookie app
<derekv> my head is getting so much clearer about how to put one together
<derekv> and I'm catching up also
<derekv> One style issue that I am embarrased to report I have no opinion on is spaces vs tabs
<derekv> I feel like I should have one
<derekv> but I just want everyone do do the same thing and then i'll configure my editor
<derekv> I don't ever want to manually indent code
<derekv> so I'm never hitting space or tab and I don't really care which is used
<brousch> derekv: 4 spaces, always
<brousch> make your tabs 4 become 4 spaces
<brousch> derekv: Here is your style guide http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<rick_h_> did someone say coding style/guidelines? :P
<jrwren> if you are stuck on style you are doing it wrong.
<jrwren> learn to read any style.
<jrwren> set your mind free.
<brousch> damn dirty hippie
<snap-l> Honestly, that's the best policy (do as the Romans do)
<snap-l> if there's an accepted convention for how X code is supposed to look, it's probably best not to buck that convention
<snap-l> ie: writing camelcase in Python for all variable names.
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> yet python has unittest
<jrwren> *RAGE*
<snap-l> enlighten why that's a rage moment?
<jrwren> unittest.TestBaes has a member called setUp
<jrwren> and its assertEquals
<jrwren> assertGreaterThan
<jrwren> its java
<jrwren> its not pythonic
<snap-l> but it came from Python
<snap-l> er, Java
<snap-l> If it's trying to port functionality from another language's package, I have less problem with keeping the variable names similar to the original language
<snap-l> Yes, it isn't native
<snap-l> but if it makes someone's life easier porting between the two, then OK
<rick_h_> jrwren: but try to keep to a style. I always say that I don't care what style you use, as long as it's documentted/kept to
<snap-l> That's the big thing
<jrwren> yeah, styles nice.
<jrwren> i say fuck it and write all my code on one line
<jrwren> snap-l: it didn't come from python.
<jrwren> snap-l: it didn't come from java.
<jrwren> wow, look at that, i did it too.
<snap-l> jrwren: where did it come from?
<jrwren> kent beck
<jrwren> first impl was smalltalk
<derekv> brousch, not for python
<brousch> It works in other languages too
<snap-l> nixternal: That Java video is great, save for it's not real
<snap-l> nobody loves the JVM. ;)
<jrwren> oh no, lots of people LOVE the jvm.
<jrwren> i think they are nuts
<jrwren> but they do.
<jrwren> hell, google loves teh jvm.
<snap-l> Damn hippies.
<brousch> you forgot the dirty
<snap-l> http://supermoney.bandcamp.com/album/snatched-the-throne-ep
<snap-l> http://kobilacroix.bandcamp.com/track/jeremy-the-ninja <- lol
<gamerchick02> my new desktop is built! finally! :-D
<rick_h_> snap-l: do you see what I'm doing wrong here? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/707/
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: congrats!
<gamerchick02> thank you!
<gamerchick02> i've got my desktop and the Air.
<gamerchick02> just gotta install mint or something else my mom can use easily to the laptop and give it to her
<gamerchick02> she's a total newbie to linux and i don't have an extra windows license for her. does anyone recommend something windows-like to put on the laptop?
<gamerchick02> i need to be able to admin it easily.
<rick_h_> snap-l: nevermind I see what's wrong. Maybe I'll just skip the hash_id fk reference.
<snap-l> rick_h_: What was the trouble?
<rick_h_> snap-l: hash_id isn't anything special on the bmark table, it's part of a unique index, but only with username
<rick_h_> so using that as a FK reference doesn't work from the db side
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> Wonder if it was bitchy because hash_id wasn't guaranteed unique?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> and lovely psql won't read in an sql file generated by pg_dump because of escaped crap..ugh, this is going to suck updating the live site
<snap-l> What version of pg_dump?
<rick_h_> should be 9 I think. checking
<rick_h_> yea, 9.0.5
<snap-l> Rush is the subject of a 3-page feature in the latest issue of Terrorizer magazine titled Times of Grace. <- OK, I think Road Runner is promoting the fuck out of Rush way too much
<snap-l> Terrorizer is mostly black metal / death metal
<snap-l> That's strange that it would have escaping problems.
<gamerchick02> so we've got a music and programming discussion going on at the same time? :-D
<gamerchick02> and i'm elated that my desktop is built.
<gamerchick02> it's good news all around.
<rick_h_> bah, yea choking on "viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=4">viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=4</a><br/>you'll want to use that instead."
<rick_h_> trying to load live data
<snap-l> Oh that sucks
<rick_h_> ah, it is COPY format, that's why I think
<rick_h_> tried to just do flat sql format so I can tinker with it more because I need to basically recreate/reload the db with the new migrations/etc
<rick_h_> and there are going to be constraint violations in the current data I just know it
<brousch> gamerchick02: Kubuntu 12.04 for your Mom
<gamerchick02> really? ok. it's stable and all that? *goes off to download*
<brousch> yep
<gamerchick02> cool. last time i tried Kubuntu i couldn't grok it.
<gamerchick02> for some strange reason. *shrug*
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-17
<greg-g> I find it funny that someone who calls themself a 'general contractor' is unable to find/use a truck to pickup a bed headboard within two weeks.
<rick_h> greg-g: :/ rend the home depot truck for 2hrs/
<rick_h> ?
<greg-g> he's a cheap ass. also owes me $100 in utilities
<rick_h> oh
<greg-g> cuz, you know, all that money he spends at the bar is totally worth it
 * greg-g is soooo glad he kicked him out
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Man, late start today.
<brousch> Yeah, none of us could wake up this morning either
<rick_h> heh, early start here.
<jcastro> snap-l: new Sabbath ain't bad
<jcastro> more of the same, heh
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, from what I've heard it isn't as awful as some reviews.
<snap-l> BTW: Loving the new Amorphis album: Circle
<rick_h> give the people what they like
<snap-l> also The Ocean's Pelagial is amazing as hell
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZMTDcqKnQ
<snap-l> ^ apparently it's the full album
<snap-l> (unfortunately with spaces between the tracks)
<snap-l> Not a whole lot of distracting growling
<brousch> Then I'm out
<brousch> Growling is the best singing
<snap-l> brousch: Seriously, try it ouot
<snap-l> I think this is the album to beat this year
<snap-l> brousch: And there's growling in there. :)
<snap-l> Fluxion has nothing but growling
<brousch> What is Fluxion?
<snap-l> Their debut album (The Ocean)
<snap-l> OK, gotta stop listening to it on Youtube, or I'll get myself into trouble. :)
<snap-l> God bless Excel
<snap-l> Firstname: testuser
<snap-l> Lastname: 6/12/2013
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> $5 says it was supposed to be First: testuser, Last: June
<jcastro> https://github.com/blog/1529-repository-next
<jcastro> "Weâve made browsing files within a repository so fast that we no longer need the animations: in most cases, files are rendered nearly instantaneously."
<jcastro> No longer _needs_ animation
<jcastro> that should be like a goal of all webapps
<greg-g> word
<rick_h> jcastro: +1
<rick_h> ooh, and I've got the button now
 * rick_h clicks to get new fancy pants bits
<jrwren_> speed is a feature and teh feature i'm interested in is speed.
<rick_h> hmmmm...already have issues :(
<rick_h> oh man, not going to like this...right side nav FML
<snap-l> ++
<rick_h> love the speed, 300ms page times ftw, but hate the layout
<snap-l> Love this domain name fromt he pyohio list: dontusethiscode
<brousch> TIL You can create a zip file containing a __main__.py file and run it with python
<brousch> I wonder, if you crafted that file well enough, if you could boostrap a real application with dependencies and system packages and such
<snap-l> Only if you call it a .jar file, and run it under Tomcat.
<brousch> that would be awesome
<snap-l> I do not understand people who are now buying cassettes.
<snap-l> and producing cassettes
<snap-l> It was a shit format to start with. It doesn't need new material; it needs to die out.
<brousch> You're too old to understand.
<snap-l> Yeah, I grew up with the format. My bad
<snap-l> I'd take a CD any day of the week, thank you.
<brousch> I bet you had vinyl
<snap-l> I own a turntable
<snap-l> I still prefer digital
<brousch> Tapes are portable, don't skip on rough roads, and lack DRM
<snap-l> no noise, no pops, no degredation
<snap-l> And have WOW and flutter, hiss, distortion, and shit bandwidth
<brousch> That's part of the sound, man!
<greg-g> but those qualities make it cool
<greg-g> what brousch said
<brousch> Really I'm just making shit up. I have not heard of this tape resurgence
<greg-g> like, I remember Bill Crosby, on The Crosby Show, say, listening to his jazz in the basement (not smoking a joint, oddly): "It just isn't the same without all the pops and crackles"
<snap-l> Yeah, having a high-end that was completely equalized by Dolby B is awesome.
<snap-l> greg-g: Cosby. :) The Bill Crosby show would have had a water bong. ;)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crosby
<snap-l> I worked an entire summer to get a Discman
<greg-g> oh right, where's my coffee
<snap-l> rick_h: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1giyxd/best_foss_bookmark_manager/
<snap-l> Mentions Bookie in the article
<rick_h> hah, that's really cool. Been some new users coming by and submitting bugs and things.
<rick_h> thanks for the heads up snap-l
<snap-l> np
<greg-g> cool re new users/bugs
<rick_h> yea, actually hacking on it again for the first time in a while. Other users push me to fix stuff :)
<rick_h> guy using debian pushed a few changes, and now guy trying to run his own is pushing some somplificiation work this past week
<greg-g> awesome!
<rick_h> guy asking today about using it on openshift
<greg-g> sweet
<brousch> hehe. I'm making a little Python demo that would give rick_h hives
<rick_h> ruh roh
<brousch> I have a Python module called "make" to bootstrap an environment from a zip file
<brousch> Well, make does packaging and such
<brousch> python make/package.py
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "I don't need no stinkin Make...just a python file called make...close enough"
<brousch> well, a module
<brousch> So I could pass easily pass arguments for each command and import from other commands and such
<brousch> I get tired of going to systems where there is no make
<rick_h> brousch: at PyOhio I'm doing a Makefile open space and we'll turn all that into a simple makefile for you :P
<rick_h> what?!
<rick_h> no make?
<brousch> Windows
<brousch> Android
<rick_h> oh...well that's a sucky problem
<brousch> indeed
<brousch> Fabric could substitute, but the ssl dependency is annoying on those systems
<rick_h> yea, I bet
<brousch> I should call it something else though, or people will expect Makefile compatability
<greg-g> interesting, there is spam (that spamassasin caught) where the Real Name portion of the from is my cousin's name, but the email address is some spammy looking thing. Never seen that combo before
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-18
<snap-l> Whew, fixed up my bookcase
<snap-l> the back cardboard is tearing away, so eventually it would just crumble
<snap-l> hammered some more nails in it. Hoping to get a few more years out of it before I have to replace it
<wolfger> snap-l: Yeah... because nail hole improve cardboard structural integrity....
<rick_h> morning party people
<snap-l> wolfger: Well, it'll at least keep it from moving
<snap-l> It's a cheap piece of crap bookcase anyway. This was just to make sure it didn't accidentally fall over and kill someone.
<snap-l> I wish this code had adopted the manager pattern sooner.
<snap-l> Having to deal with SQL statments directly makes me nervous that I'll miss something along the way.
<rick_h> lol, I always wish code adopted cleaner stuff sooner :)
<snap-l> Well, I'm already trying to shim in one thing, and it would have been nicer to have a single shim point. :)
<snap-l> Almost missed the email portion of it which would not have been great).
<jrwren_> sql statements?
<jrwren_> have you considered repository pattern?
<snap-l> jrwren_: Have you considered this code is over 3 years old with multiple authors and I'm on a deadline. ;)
<jrwren_> yes
<rick_h> lol, always leave the code better than you found it. Works on code and on bathrooms
<jrwren_> the reason i ask, is that I don't see manager pattern mentioned in GoF or PoEAA
<jrwren_> ha! I should teach my daughter that.
<rick_h> jrwren_: so he's talking about something like the django manager orm bits
<rick_h> jrwren_: in sqlalchemy I use stuff like https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L118 to contain any non-instance related methods/helpers/etc
<rick_h> jrwren_: so not really a GoF, but a organization method vs pattern
<jrwren_> in the .net world we consider that an antipattern, at least somewhat.
<brousch> I usually use the Fuckit Pattern
<jrwren_> brousch: fuckit usually leads to pizza or spaghetti
<jrwren_> maybe some chinese takeout
<brousch> Yum
<rick_h> jrwren_: why an anti-pattern?
<jrwren_> is it an alchemy-ism because you don't define your data class like you do in django?
<jrwren_> I'm not familiar enough to alchemy to say if it is the same antipattern from .net. I think it is not.
<rick_h> jrwren_: honestly it's something I do myself just because I hate having Model.method_one doing stuff that's really nothing to do with Model the instance/etc.
<jrwren_> rick_h: honestly, after studying that TagMgr class for a few minutes, it is a case of Repository pattern :)
<rick_h> jrwren_: and helps clean up what methods a model allows on an instance vs thinsg that you can do but have nothing to do with it.
<jrwren_> yes, exactly, understood.
<jrwren_> fowler calls that Repository pattern
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L353 and https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L594 for a better example
<snap-l> jrwren_: Chalk it up to me using the word pattern loosely.
 * rick_h goes to look it up
<jrwren_> use english :)
<snap-l> fuck dat sheeet.
<jrwren_> http://www.martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/repository.html
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, this looks right
<jrwren_> its veyr close.
<rick_h> jrwren_: and since SqlAlchemy uses full data mapper it probably fits nicer than some things
<jrwren_> I think maybe its not repostiory because by inheriting from Base the objects can still save/udpate themselves.
<jrwren_> the Repository is usually responsible for that.
<snap-l> All I know is it's another reason rick_h is right
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, but you still need to use the Session to save/update in sqlalchemy
<rick_h> jrwren_: so maybe the session is a bit of repository really
 * rick_h hasn't done his required pattern reading in a long while. 
<jrwren_> nor have I
<jrwren_> I really only recall a few
<snap-l> John keeps threatening us with going through the gang of four book
<jrwren_> I recall SqlAlchemy being a DataMapper
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, so model.query is an instanced of an associated Session object
<jrwren_> tehre is certainly no reason there cannot be many of these patterns.
<snap-l> honestly, the patterns stuff just feels like taxonomy, and I couldn't care less what the correct word for something is.
<rick_h> jrwren_: so the ModelMgr is doing the querying through that Session (repository) and returning result sets and then the model instances are smaller/simpler/lighter and only deal with instance info
<snap-l> or what one programming culture calls something
<rick_h> snap-l: but it's handy for talking. It'd have been simpler if you'd said "man I'm glad this code went to the repository pattern" and jrwren_ would have followed from the start and said "hells to the yea"
<jrwren_> thanks for clarifying. I get it.
<jrwren_> and I take it all back.
<jrwren_> I think it is just a behavior type.
<snap-l> rick_h: Agreed
<jrwren_> you've isolated common behavior for that model type.
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, cool. I kind of tought this layout at my Sqlalchemy tutorial at PyOhio a while back and would hate to be teaching an anti-pattern
<jrwren_> definitely not an antipattern.
<rick_h> so was curious in being corrected :)
<snap-l> rick_h: The code I'm looking at is definitely an anti-pattern. :)
<jrwren_> its good stuff, I was just trying to understand.
<rick_h> snap-l: lol yea I don't even have to look at it to know that :)
<snap-l> I believe it's called the "sql blender" anti-pattern. (and don't correct me if it isn't ccalled that because reasons).
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I fought hard to try to get a rule that no controller should ever ever do Session.query.
<rick_h> but I'm going to guess there's still a lot of that around
<snap-l> Well, there's lots of old code getting C/P into new code
<snap-l> thus creating the maxim: Old code never dies, it just gets copied.
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/carrier-advisory-group :( no us unless you count DT I guess
<rick_h>  /us/U.S./
<snap-l> http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130618/CARNEWS/130619824
<rick_h> ok, first camping trip in the new camper set for this weekend. What's the over/under for the number of disasters encountered?
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, saw that the other day. Makes a lot of sense. I like how my touareg has a mix of hard button and touch screen
<rick_h> especially with the slow touch screen tech used in these things
<brousch> rick_h: Where are you going?
<snap-l> Yeah, honestly when I was looking at cars I wanted to like the Ford Sync
<snap-l> bit it felt a little clunky
<snap-l> (nevermind that it rebooted while I was taking the test drive)
<rick_h> brousch: http://www.destinationoakland.com/parksandtrails/campgrounds/addisonoaks/Pages/default.aspx 30min away for a nice close safe initial voyage
<rick_h> snap-l: lol, that would suck
<snap-l> rick_h: First trip isn't the one that all of the problems happen
<rick_h> brousch: but will be up by alpena for the 4th, cadillac for aug, and in VA for sept.
<snap-l> it's the second trip that the universe conspires against. :)
<brousch> 87 and humid. Does the camper have AC?
<rick_h> snap-l: then I'm screwed :P but at least we'll be up north with family
<rick_h> brousch: why yes...yes it does :)
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> Knowing rick_h, it'll auto level and set up satellite internet with a make command
<brousch> make campsite
<rick_h> snap-l: hah, no. I did buy my own electrical setup (high capacity 6v golf cart batteries in a custom box) I delivered to them yesterday to install
<rick_h> and they've got a checklist of a bunch of things I want installed/setup before I take delivery on thurs
<rick_h> but no auto leveling or satellite
<snap-l> did you mention no brown M&Ms?
 * rick_h writes that down for the next time
<snap-l> So, does Clarkston allow you to park your camper on your property, or are they anal like I've heard Troy is.
<rick_h> snap-l: so I'll have it in my driveway for short times pre/post travel. But I'm going to sign up for an indoor storage place tomorrow
<snap-l> yeah, that's what I thought
<snap-l> jrwren_: liking the mix on digital gunfire at the moment
<ColonelPanic001> damn. I haven't listened to DG in ages
<ColonelPanic001> I have to do that today
<rick_h> snap-l: so according to the twp ordinances here I can park it in my driveway as long as I don't hit the street with it
<rick_h> snap-l: and it can't have permanent hookups to sewer/electrical/etc
<brousch> Don't be that guy!
<rick_h> heh, I don't want it sitting in the sun when I'm not using it so it won't be there much for sure.
<rick_h> brousch: http://www.generalrv.com/inventory/286100/New-2014-Jayco-Jay-Feather-Ultra-Lite-X23B.aspx is what we're getting
<rick_h> now to setup a camping bookie sprint lol
<brousch> looks like my brother's. They really like it
<rick_h> yea, I'm excited. I think it'll make for some good times with the boy at the current age and such
<trevlar> I loved camping with my family when I was little
<trevlar> definitely get one of these. my favorite camping accessory :) http://r1.coleman.com/ProductImages/Full/822-707T_500.jpg
<brousch> I don't like camping
<snap-l> JoDee doesn't like to camp. I don't mind it, having grown up with it.
<rick_h> I've got visions of bookie hacking under an awning in some woods :)
<jrwren_> my back yard is close enough to camping for me :p
<jrwren_> i'm just getting use to house living instead of apt. living.
<snap-l> jrwren_: Getting used to having to mow?
<snap-l> Or do they hve an ordinance against grass growing there? :)
<jrwren_> hired it out
<jrwren_> i choose to skip that part of life
<rick_h> lol of the day https://twitter.com/benbangert/status/347014183692410880
<snap-l> rick_h: ++
<snap-l> BTW: The BrickPip project funded with $127k
<snap-l> s/BrickPip/BrickPi/
<jrwren_> snap-l: did you see the A23 kickstarter?
<snap-l> No, what is it?
<snap-l> Assemblage 23?
<jrwren_> yes
<snap-l> Really wish this was CC licensed. ;)
<snap-l> but only because I'd love to play assemblage 23 on the podcast.
<snap-l>   I'm just happy I have Stromkern on the Mind / Body Vol. 3. ;)
<jrwren_> stromkern put out new stuff?
<snap-l> This is an old r.m.Industrial compilation
<snap-l> rec.music.industrial
<jrwren_> rmi is sitll around?
<jrwren_> i read rmi a few times back in the 90s
<snap-l> http://www.discogs.com/Various-Mind-Body-Compilation-Volume-3/release/812293
<snap-l> I also have Stromkern's Light it Up album in digital form
<snap-l> added more to my wishlist.
<jrwren_> good album
<snap-l> Yeah, it's great mowing music. :)
<snap-l> http://www.discogs.com/Stromkern-Light-It-Up/master/41534
<greg-g> jrwren_: whoa, your retweet just blew my mind
<greg-g> the madonna one
<jrwren_> :)
<greg-g> and now I'm reading the rape story and disgusted
<jrwren_> brave writing.
<jrwren_> i need to start saving these and have my daughter read them when she is older
<greg-g> ditto re my son
<snap-l> I don't understand how someone could do that (was re: the rape story)
<jrwren_> sociopaths are around :(
<jrwren_> the scary part to me is that the same person was functional enough to have a professional job.
<greg-g> right, if you're in an org of any size, really, you're working with someone who would do/has done this (chances are)
<jrwren_> scary
<snap-l> There's something to be said for consensual. :)
<jrwren_> ha!
<jrwren_> i REALLY need to get to know make better.
<jrwren_> https://github.com/mbostock/world-atlas/blob/master/Makefile
<snap-l> And I'm pretty sure "am I going to rot in prison for killing this asshole" is not the kind of sexy-time pillowtalk that most folks crave.
<jrwren_> rule54?
<jrwren_> but certainly not "most folks"
<snap-l> I think you mean Rule 34
<snap-l> which probably means there's porn of someone out there using the Make command.
<jrwren_> oh, yes, that.
<jrwren_> its probably make me a sandwich porn
 * brousch looks at rick_h's video collection
 * rick_h unplugs the NAS from the internet real quick...
<snap-l> "You Autocomplete Me, vol 2"
<snap-l> "ZSH hotties from hell"
<jrwren_> root cause analysis
<snap-l> Here we go: Gals of Sudo: Make me
<snap-l> I can't wait to leave this airconditioning so I can be cool outside.
<snap-l> Ugh
<brousch> You're cool everywhere you go, snap-l
<snap-l> I wish. :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Re: relicensing MySQL man pages: Fuck that shit.
<snap-l> https://blog.mariadb.org/mysql-man-pages-silently-relicensed-away-from-gpl/
<snap-l> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/preface.html#legalnotice
<jrwren_> oracle!
<greg-g> so glad WMF switched to MariaDB recently :)
<greg-g> ef oracle
<greg-g> snap-l: I just listened to the Allergic Reactionary episode, and uh, what an ending
<snap-l> greg-g: You like? :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-19
<jrwren_> amateur tip: sudo apt-get remove python-dns && sudo apt-get install python-dnspython
<greg-g> heh "Huboard is the animated gifs of kanban style Github issue management. "
<greg-g> annoying?
<snap-l>  Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> xkcd wow today http://xkcd.com/1227/
<rick_h> <3 the hover text so much
<snap-l> Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, poorly. ;)
<rick_h> so thought about applying and then found their online style guide and decided no way in hell http://www.artlogic.com/styleguide/rosettapython.html
<snap-l> three spaces? Are you shitting me?
<rick_h> lol, glad I wasn't the only one with that reaction
<snap-l> God, pep8 would shit on that code
<brousch> 3 spaces?
<brousch> Let's burn the place
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/Ns2f2xzj8HRKlXYvt8Es/
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> now run flake8 on it lol
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/8NYon9hCC0rKv2RjVhKl/
<snap-l> That's Ubuntu flake8, so I'm sure there's more sins in there with a newer version
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/970/ for the latest
<snap-l> Similar output
<snap-l> I've never seen "         val -= 1
<snap-l> I know it's valid, but it just looks weird
<rick_h> yea, it's frowned upon
<rick_h> too easy to miss in a quick glance, not as explicit
<jrwren_> rick_h: lol, what is with all the # comments?
<jrwren_> really? x -= 1 is frowned?  fuck that, its hte closest thing to -- I have :)
<jrwren_> x--; ftw!
<jrwren_> oh, THERE is their problem, they are in Pasadena, CA
<snap-l> What round is square, up is down, and three spaces conserves energy?
<snap-l> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Oracle-bug-accidentally-removes-GPL-licence-from-MySQL-man-pages-1892600.html
<greg-g> accidentally?
<jrwren_> automated builds can do crazy things.
<rick_h> yea, not sure I'd have my build system auto apply license things. Especially when the codebase has multiple license parts as this must have by now
<rick_h> a linter to say "wtf...this isn't licensed" sure...but an auto licensing? ugh
<jrwren_> i kind of like the idea.
<rick_h> jrwren_: and yea, ++ and -- are no go.
<jrwren_> autolicense is better than manually maintaining license header in every file. I hate that policy
<rick_h> meh, file templates to start with ftw
 * rick_h has a copyright snippet for our files in vim
<snap-l> knowing Oracle, there's probably some auto-boilerplate thing that goes around and attaches a logo / copyright on any file on the system.
<jrwren_> then you have to update them.
<jrwren_> as part of build you don't have to see them.
<snap-l> I imagine there's a procedure for when the auto-boilerplater accidentally gets root and mucks with vmlinuz
<rick_h> greg-g: jrwren_ http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/velodroom/velodrooms-smart-bicycle-light?ref=category
<snap-l> rick_h: That's pretty cool
<snap-l> OK, their risks and challenges is pretty interesting:
<snap-l> 2. On 23rd of March 2011 seven cyclists from Estonia were kidnapped near Syrian border in Lebanon while being on the cycling trip. They were released after 114 days of captivity. One of the cyclists was at the time working on a project together with a Velodroom team member. That seriously affected the project. We are doing our best to avoid this happening to any of Velodroom team members and will not
<snap-l> travel to potentially unsafe regions on bicycle before the lights are shipped.
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Score one for brutally honest.
<rick_h> yea, second kickstarter found
<rick_h> <3 that idea
<snap-l> Second? :)
<rick_h> heh, well I did pebble watch
<snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/2092384097
<rick_h> whoa
<rick_h> oh, so yea this is my third
<rick_h> http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/253591545
<snap-l> Problem is there's a ton of RPG / Game folks using Kickstarter as a sort of pre-order system
<snap-l> I've gotten to the point where if someone says "and we're going to kickstart it" I'll wait it out until the final product shows up
<snap-l> The Belfort one was because I could get the first game cheaper than buying it while at the same time funding the expansion
<snap-l> and I'm now realizing I have a problem
<rick_h> early suckers...I mean adopters
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> I'm kinda worried about the Cryogen album not getting funded
<brousch> snap-l: Thanks for the reminder
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome. Go forth and shower them with money. :)
<brousch> I'm about half way through your interview with them
<snap-l> Ah, cool
<snap-l> I hate it when something that I think is a solution turns out to not only be a red herring, but turns out to be much more complicated.
<rick_h> h8 programming :P
<snap-l> yeah, that's pretty much it
<greg-g> jrwren_: you meant "take the power back.. uhhh!" - RATM
<jrwren_> yup
 * greg-g doesn't know how to ascii'ize grunts and such
<greg-g> or was it "come on!"?
<greg-g> anywho, might need to listen to some RATM now
 * snap-l is getting rather pissed at this code, and is now in a Meshuggah mode.
<jrwren_> i need to infest in a fake beard, trucker hats and sunglasses, to avoid the face recog camera
<greg-g> I think the moustache/beard doesn't work
<greg-g> but, interesting applied paint/tattoos do
<greg-g> there was a story I read recently... but I don't have the url
<greg-g> also, wearing a necklace that emits IR pretty much cancels the good that the IR camera have and without annoying other humans.
<snap-l> I'm just looking forward to my face giving false positives for The Joker. ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: yeah, I can see IR earrings becoming popular
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Also, I have married well. Have Meshuggah playing on the computer speakers with JoDee in the same room
<brousch> snap-l: ON that topic, my wife says she hates you. When listeing to podcasts in the car the OMC scream scares her every time
<snap-l> hahahahahahahahahaha
<snap-l> Sorry about that. :)
<brousch> She expects some NPR podcast to come on and instead it's the scream
<snap-l> Blame Utopia Banished for one of the most awesome screams of metal
<snap-l> JoDee also used that for her students to look at sound waveforms
<snap-l> she tells some of them to turn it up good and loud for their headphones. :)
<brousch> evil
<snap-l> Also, there are few feelings better than overcoming a problem that you previously thought was going to be tricky
<snap-l> and having the solution be somewhat elegant
<snap-l> or at least not eye-rippingly awful at first glance. ;)
<brousch> Obviously Python is involved
<snap-l> Obviously
<brousch> I am now have to arguing for Pyramid and SQLAlchemy talks at PyOhio
<brousch> You geekers should have reviewed, then it would have enough votes :P
<snap-l> Bah
<brousch> I got SQLAlchemy in, but there's too many Djangoids
<brousch> I kid, but really there are hard choices this year
<snap-l> evening
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> cat box ftw
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> living the life of a rock start
<snap-l> star, even
<rick_h> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1giyxd/best_foss_bookmark_manager/ widox
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-20
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSBybJGZoCU
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/220
<rick_h> reply tactfully please :)
<snap-l> Blazeix: http://www.analogindustries.com/b1755/
<snap-l> http://www.analogindustries.com/b1756/Roland+The+Synthesizer+Pt+2/
<snap-l> http://www.analogindustries.com/b1758/Roland+The+Synthesizer+Pt+3/
<snap-l> http://www.analogindustries.com/b1764/Roland+The+Synthesizer+Pt+4/
<rick_h> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/opensource/tutorial-put-your-bookmarks-online-with-semanticscuttle/3261
<rick_h> woot
<brousch> Bookie getting some press eh?
<rick_h> brousch: little bit, nothing major
<brousch> Free press is better than none
<rick_h> definitely
<brousch> Gonna Bookie sprint at PyOhio again?
<brousch> Sorry, bbl
<rick_h> brousch: not sure on sprint. Would be cool but honestly haven't really had much luck with it.
<brousch> Need a vagrant box on a USB drive
<rick_h> yea, I tried a virtualbox image last time I think.
<rick_h> or maybe it was just the pypi mirror. so long ago now lol
<brousch> But we still had to use pypi
<rick_h> ah, that part is gone now. I've got a download-cache in the build process now
<brousch> You tried pypi mirror, then we put together a virtualbox for the next night
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/bookie-download-cache ftw
<brousch> Now everyone has vagrant, so I think it would work
<rick_h> hmm, I'll have to look into it maybe
<brousch> My talk was officially accepted
<brousch> Tutorial
<brousch> Floer tried to rope me into chairing next year. Ha!
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> go go go
<rick_h> brousch: what's your tutorial then?
<brousch> I told him there was no way. I already have to scrub myself 3 times a day for week after attending
<brousch> My tutorial is Kivy. First part is installation on Win/Lin/OSX, then creating a simple Kivy application, then turning it into an Android app
<rick_h> very cool
<brousch> Now that I fixed libpd support I should be able to make a more interesting demo app
<brousch> I have used this app in previous talks https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.clusterbleep.saythis
<snap-l> brousch: Neat!
<brousch> We had to cull about 1/3 of the talks I think. A few good ones had to be cut
<brousch> Kind of depressing
<snap-l> brousch: That's depressing, but a good problem to have.
<snap-l> Better than accepting 1/3 of bad talks
<brousch> yes
<brousch> Also I'm trying standing desk after a bout of hemorrhoids
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a122759/of-water-and-ice <- Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's cool to see nonetheless
<rick_h> bah, so hard to concentrate...
<rick_h> keep thinking of things to 'make sure you don't forget' for the camping trip.
<brousch> make a list!
<snap-l> Make a mind map, and implement a GTD system. ;)
<rick_h> that all sounds complicated
<rick_h> I just get up, get the thing, and add it to the 'take with us' pile on the floor
<snap-l> Right, but what if it's something you're currently using? Hmm?
<snap-l> Where is your system now?!?
<rick_h> lol, power to the desktop!
<rick_h> laptop can sit in the pile
<snap-l> Apparently rick_h isn't using any toiletries between now and camping trip. ;)
<rick_h> lol, nice thing with camper...extra set of those can live in it.
<brousch> phone!
<brousch> So far with stand up desk I find I'm much more likely to walk to someone's office than send them an email or call
<rick_h> brousch: definitely.
<brousch> It makes me want hand recognizing gesture-based mouse
<snap-l> brousch: That could be a good thing / bad thing for productivity
<snap-l> Email is more "whenever you can fit it in your productivity scheme"
<brousch> Dang. I think the Blackwell is full-up
<snap-l> brousch: I take it you didn't get a room reserved?
<brousch> Nope
<brousch> Looks like we'll be red roofing it again
<snap-l> bummer
<derekv> hey we are getting root access to a suse machine for use as a dev utility server and I want to see whether it is worth setting up as a vm host
<derekv> any thoughts?
<snap-l> Haven't touched SuSE in years, so no opinion here.
<derekv> I think the issues will be that it will be maintained by us (eg, not just me) and that I'm not sure if we have physical access to the machine
<derekv> if i find out we do I'll vote for installing ubunutu ;P
<snap-l> Well, it depends on the server. You mgith be better off with Puppy Linux. ;)
<snap-l> Or Raspbian. ;)
<derekv> well, i have no idea what you are saying =P
<derekv> looks like github enterprise is distributed as a virtual machine anyways
<snap-l> derekv: I'm saying if the server is a 486 machine, there might be some considerations to take re: the OS on it. ;)
<derekv> quad core with 16gb i think
<snap-l> Ah, that's likely not going to be a puppy canididate. ;)
<jrwren_> puppylinux?
<snap-l> jrwren_: was (is?) a distro for underpowered machines
<jrwren_> ah
<snap-l> greg-g: re: the kickstarter "date-rape manual" thing: 1) I have yet to see an example of what this book has in it, and 2) I'm really not liking this whole "I don't agree with it / it's offensive, so therefore it shouldn't be" mantra that folks are taking
<snap-l> if it is what it says it is on the tin, I think it's deplorable
<snap-l> but I also think it has a right to exist, much like I think the Anarchist's Cookbook should exist
<greg-g> snap-l: there are examples of his writing other places. It's like saying "I have no idea what snap-l would say in this IRC chat room called #ubuntu-us-mi in the future, even though I have all his history."
<greg-g> There's a difference between right to exist and a "right" to use a platform to make it
<snap-l> So by extension if someone were to kickstart a 3D printer that is capable of printing handguns, then that shouldn't exist on Kickstarter?
<greg-g> ugh, that's not even nearly the same thing
<greg-g> and you knowit
<snap-l> The fact that it funded is surprising to me
<snap-l> They're both offensive
<jrwren_> everything is offensive.
<greg-g> oh well
<jrwren_> you do not have the right to not be offended.
 * greg-g goes to get some work done
<jrwren_> your stupid offends me.
<snap-l> Also, Quora needs to die. :)
<jrwren_> WHAT?!?!
<jrwren_> Quora is wonderful.
<snap-l> The whole maintain an account just to browse is a PITA
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> yahoo answers 2.0
<snap-l> jcastro: So Quora lives, or Quora dies?
<snap-l> Decide you must!
<jcastro> I'm in the don't care camp
<jcastro> I think paywalling content is lame
<snap-l> Same here
<jrwren_> there is a paywall?
<jcastro> I think accountwall is probably more accurate
<jcastro> lamewall?
<snap-l> crowdsourced-content-account-required-wall
<snap-l> bswal
<jrwren_> awesome wall
<jrwren_> if you put up an awesome wall, you might get a murder threat. See The Newsroom.
<brousch> jrwren_ the marketer
<jrwren_> if you don't want to login, stick to 4chan, kiddies.
<snap-l> jrwren_: It's not that I mind having an account, it's that I hate having to log in. ;)
<snap-l> ie: look up password, etc.
<snap-l> And the app permissions want to manage / view my contacts if I log in with my Google Account
<snap-l> which is a huge no-no
<jcastro> to me it's like, if I'm not going to log in
<jcastro> chances are there's enough people who can't be bothered who also bailed
<jcastro> and the content in there has a higher chance of no one caring about
<brousch> OK, I'm in the Blackwell. Had to call to make a reservation
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome.
<brousch> They have 4 rooms left. Hopefully the rest of the GR posse can get in
<snap-l> Ting changed their billing
<snap-l> instead of paying in advance, you pay for what you used.
<snap-l> Simpler. :)
<brousch> nice
<brousch> I'm so switching in August
<Blazeix> snap-l: cool, is there an update on their site?
<snap-l> Blazeix: I got an email, so not sure if it's on the site yet.
<snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/ting-has-eliminated-plans/
<Blazeix> thanks
<rick_h> https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/GWc8ndt7qAX phew!
<brousch> rick_h: Well done
<derekv> wow lots of korean on bmark.us
<derekv> not korean,
<brousch> Chinese?
<brousch> Bookie turning Commie on us?!
<derekv> chinese and japanese
<derekv> looks fine on android =D
<greg-g> "So, nothing then. Today, announcing nothing! Come and get it."
<derekv> speaking of bookie android
<derekv> someone should really do something with all that
<derekv> fix the tag ux, add a search, ifinate scroll
<derekv> ;)
<derekv> i'm pretty much decided on saving some money and either doing indie dev full time or going back to school, in 1 to 2 years
<jrwren_> i just removed Mochikit from this app. YAY!
<jrwren_> back to school for phd?
<derekv> probably
<derekv> i don't have masters either.
<derekv> thought about attacking bioinformatics
<derekv> not that eager to do a bunch of frog disections and crap but
<derekv> or learning how to write good
<derekv> =p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-21
<rick_h> jcastro: pics up for ya http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157634236817199/
<jrwren_> that is a HUGE camper
<jrwren_> and fancy.
<rick_h> it's a baby, 23ft :)
<rick_h> not like those 30ft monsters lol
<snap-l> I think I've fallen in love with ctrl-p
<snap-l> Or, more accurately, rick_h is right
<rick_h> boom!
<snap-l> I wish I would just accept this. It'd save so much time
<rick_h> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/UdfEe9wEbwswYnNEeu6Y/ was yesterday :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Hahahaha
<rick_h> snap-l: so you're not alone. Sometimes there's a method to my madness, other times just mad
<snap-l> It'd be nice if you would label them. :)
<rick_h> hey, I'm part mad...how can I tell?
<snap-l> Coder Advisory: rick_h is mad.
<rick_h> but yea, <3 me some ctrl-p
<snap-l> Especially for Pylons / Pyramid
<rick_h> just remember the F5 refresh the list of files
<snap-l> Still like Nerdtree, but if I'm really lazy, ctrl-p is there for me.
<rick_h> and has to be open to use it
<rick_h> yea, more pixels == good. I still pop open nerdtree sometimes but usually I know where I'm heading
<rick_h> <p>models/auth<enter>
<snap-l> yep
<jrwren_> any of ya'll interested in SEMjs?
<brousch> eh?
<jrwren_> http://www.meetup.com/SEM-JS/events/115369672/
<snap-l> I wish I were doing more with Javascript to want to go to that
<rick_h> jrwren_: yes and ugh drive to AA, and ugh never will be able to make a meeting on mondays
<snap-l> âUbuntuâ is the convergent
<snap-l> platform being used across phones, tablets, desktops, and TVs. âUbuntu
<snap-l> Oneâ is a collection of services (e.g. file sync, music, photos etc)
<snap-l> that plug into Ubuntu. We are simply unifying these different services
<snap-l> with the same account name.
<snap-l> Wow, marketing must've spent an afternoon for that description. :)
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/we-were-wrong
<snap-l> I'm glad they are clarifying their policies
<greg-g> wikimedia server porn: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_servers_in_2013
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, just read the title/tweet. Seems legit
<snap-l> greg-g: yeah, and one of the folks who I've backed several times on Kickstarter mentioned the decision and how Kickstarter could have blown it
<snap-l> (during approval)
<snap-l> I didn't realize how much editorial control they have over the projects they pick, so I too was wrong.
<snap-l> regardless, still friends? :)
<greg-g> snap-l: yeppers!
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Yay!
<snap-l> Also in other yay news, Cryogen's album funded.
<snap-l> This gives me a happy. :)
<greg-g> coolio
<jrwren_> need advise for python websocket server
<rick_h> twisted?
<jrwren_> good advise.
<rick_h> I think Juju's websocket server when it was pyjuju was done in twisted. Trying to check
<rick_h> only experience I've got though. I know that when we mocked one up for testing our code on the front end we used tornado as it was simpler to get going for pure-test purposes
<jrwren_> no worries, I'm just spiking something. if I can pip install twisted on this old server, all will be good.
<rick_h> jrwren_: I'd just use tornado then. There's a ton of simple demos out there for it and should be good enough for a quick spike
<rick_h> http://mbed.org/cookbook/Websockets-Server for example
<jrwren_> i guess I could just ajax lp every second.
<brousch> jrwren_: There will be a talk at PyOhio about diesel. Some of the reviewers were really into it http://diesel.io/
<Blazeix> man, i've run into two people this week that didn't see anything wrong with "base64 encrypting" data.
<jrwren_> did you say "that isn't encryption" ?
<Blazeix> if i run into a third i might just call it quits and go live on top of mountain
<jrwren_> becuase that is the first right response.
<Blazeix> yeah, the first one was a consultant, and i explained it nicely to him.
<Blazeix> the second one was a coworker, i was slightly more terse.
<jrwren_> :(
<snap-l> Just because you can't read it quickly doesn't mean the computer can't
<snap-l> I fear if you introduced them to "uuencoding" they'd think it was some sort of caesar cipher worthy of usage.
<jrwren_> lol
<greg-g> ugh, headache part of the day
<greg-g> so, who all wants to just encrypt everything so that the NSA makes a backup copy of it for you?
<greg-g> 1) encrypt all data on harddrive
<greg-g> 2) send it via some ATT router to some other server you own
<greg-g> 3) now you have 2 backups!
<snap-l> GOd, I don't understand how people can say they hate CDs
<greg-g> this is interesting, thoughts? http://coffitivity.com/
<snap-l> Especially if you work for a RADIO STATION
<greg-g> summary: background noise you play under your own music as it is supposed to help you concentrate if you're in a quiet place (home)
<greg-g> ie: pretend you're at a coffee shop
<greg-g> snap-l: dunno 'bout that, seems weird
<greg-g> it's like, apparently wave form science isn't real
<snap-l> Well, it's some college radio station that overruns my show on mi.fm
<snap-l> I guess if you treat your CDs like shit, yeah, they won't work well
<greg-g> CD -> FLAC -> encrypt -> see above -> 2 backups!
<snap-l> Rightyo
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> sorry, sometimes I get a joke and I don't let go of it
<snap-l> Yeah, I've never ever done that
<greg-g> like, I've been over using this one in WMF related channels:
<greg-g> <audio src="sad_trombone.ogg">
<greg-g> I almost want to make an irssi alias for it
<greg-g> I type it out each time :)
<snap-l> http://tomarayascream.com/ :)
<Blazeix> self closing tags or bust
<greg-g> should I be putting a />?
<Blazeix> you don't have to, it's perfectly fine without it
<snap-l> greg-g: They're the skinny jeans of tags
<Blazeix> but i still put them out of some misguided xhtml habits
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> I love it when I c/p code that is supposed to be working, and find a bug that apparently was never triggered
<widox> greg-g: yeah, I like to use that when I'm at home
<widox> to quite bothers me
<jrwren_> maybe I don't grok the GIL
<jrwren_> python threads dont block each ohter unless they are executing python code, right?
<jrwren_> if i'm blocking on io wait, other threads will run?
<jrwren_> oh nope, it works, perf is just so bad it is a joke.
<snap-l> Yeah, I/O is going to kill you.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-22
<rick_h> woot, 4g camping :)
<rick_h> jrwren_: yea, basically the GIL is "I don't care what you think...there's a global share bit of data you can't get rid of""
<greg-g> rick_h: Hey! quit that!
 * greg-g can't talk
 * greg-g is in a cabin by himself on his laptop
<rick_h> jrwren_: there's some really good talks from old pycons about it analyzing the types of work, how many thread it takes, etc.
<rick_h> greg-g: llol
<rick_h> greg-g: did you see my pic?
<greg-g> yeah, nice work
<rick_h> on twitter
<greg-g> the table cloth and everything
<greg-g> many people around you?
<rick_h> yea, rough week getting things prepped but nice out with the lights on and such
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> a few, the campground is round so you only see a few
<greg-g> oh yeah, it's dark there now
<rick_h> but we've got some families stacked up. They got two spots in a row and took over. Setup some 3+ tents between them and such
<greg-g> fun (maybe)
<rick_h> but it's nice. Full moon, kids are calming down some, cooling off (ugh 88 today)
<rick_h> and sitting out on the picnic table with a tablet and keyboard after we got the boy all wore out and to bed in his bunk.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> he's bouncing off walls lol
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> love it
<greg-g> my plan is to chill for a bit, maybe read, and go to sleep early and sleep in as much as possible
<rick_h> yea, no kidding.
<rick_h> we stayed local and the wife has a hair appt in the morning so can't sleep in too much :(
<greg-g> hah!
<rick_h> yea, well it was short notice and we wanted to shake down the trailer before out bigger trip on the 4th of july.
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> rick_h: Giant storm is coming today :(
<rick_h> brousch: yea, 50/50 chance here it looks like
<rick_h> brousch: worst case we'll pull the beds in and ride it out if it gets here.
<brousch> We're supposed to do the zoo this morning and bbq later
<rick_h> nice thing about this setup is plenty of space to ride out some poorweather
<rick_h> :(
<brousch> big frickin storm
<brousch> moving very slow
<rick_h> yea, looking at the radar map right now
<rick_h> still a bit out from us, we'll see how the day goes
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> almost afternoon
<rick_h> <3 this, setting up bookie on my desktop remote from a tablet at a campground sitting under a shaded awning
<rick_h> now if there was just a hair more breeze this would be perfect :P
<greg-g> rick_h: and whoever else might know: do you konw the organizers of pyohio this year?
<greg-g> I have a friend in Sf who has a talk accepted, lodging squared away, but the flight is too much for her right now (in between gigs)
<rick_h> greg-g: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyohio-organizers
<snap-l> rick_h: thanks, i'm on phone and couldn't type that
<brousch> greg-g: I believe eric floer is chair this year
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-23
<smlr-hangout> SMLR is Live!  Video http://www.youtube.com/embed/CyETGa4gGqY - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming (6-23-2013 @ 8:30a EST)
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> phew, back and alive yay
<jrwren_> congrats.
<rick_h> https://www.dropbox.com/s/io6fhiw4j04oq7t/2013-06-21%2021.47.45.jpg id kind of cool
<rick_h> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn7x9buvyr088cx/2013-06-21%2020.16.11.jpg night and day
<jrwren_> that isn't camping. that is pulling your home wiht you :p
<rick_h> pretty much!
<rick_h> but we did hiking, kayaking, hay ride, and swimming in a lake. Of those, the only one we do at home is swim in the lake
<rick_h> so packged day and a half, or I guess two days if you count friday night and our small time this moring
<jrwren_> sounds nice.
<rick_h> yea, though glad to be home and in my cool cool basement lol
<jrwren_> and, its not home, so there is the change of mindset too. That is what I like most.
<rick_h> yea, that's my thought. Was nice that after the boy was just toast and cranky we could put a movie from the tablet on the tv while we cooked dinner
<rick_h> let him cool down while we prepped without him going bonkers
<rick_h> he's so tired today. moody little bugger
<rick_h> http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/17/4436332/macbook-air-review-13-inch-2013 I wonder if that's the first time a model went down in performance in an effort to support another feature
<snap-l> rick_h: I don't think they're directly comparable, but yeah, that's not unheard of in the laptop sphere.
<rick_h> why not comparable? Old air model to new air model. Performance went down, battery life went up.
<snap-l> Different chipset
<rick_h> it's like removing HP from a car and getting better milage. Most products aren't willing to have one bullet point go down
<snap-l> So yeah, MHz went down but performance was negligible.
<snap-l> performance hit, rather.
<rick_h> bah, chipset whatever. I think it's comparable enough to say if you bought a laptop last year it's faster than the model this year.
<rick_h> I don't recall really seeing that in the same product line through computer history
<snap-l> I think it's more prefvalent in laptops than in desktops
<snap-l> also in servers for power efficiency.
<snap-l> Not that I've got the numbers to back it up. :)
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> But yeah, it's a little strange.
<snap-l> But for some reason I'm not thinking it's that big of a deal
<snap-l> Maybe I still have some Apple brainwashing. ;)
<rick_h> not complaining, shoot, I find that crazy and want one. I'm just noting that I don't recall ever seeing last year's model of product X being slower than this years brand new model.
<rick_h> "the new kindle, now with slower apges turns but longer battery life"
<rick_h> 802.11F slower speeds, but we quit sucking your battery for you
<snap-l> I think if the Kindle Fire had that tag line you'd probably want it. ;)
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> Kindle Fire: Won't blow through a battery while reading a short story
<rick_h> snap-l: hey, I don't care what people do at CHC.
<snap-l> rick_h: OK, that's what I figured. :)
<snap-l> I'll reply back then. Thanks!
<rick_h> ok funny https://twitter.com/fabsh/status/348927971370881024/photo/1 (and I don't usually like to get into the hater games)
<greg-g> fabsh?
<snap-l> rick_h: It's also one of the reasons our trash bin had a "Powered by Windows 7" on it
<rick_h> I got it via a RT
<snap-l> and why my stapler has a Java logo on it
<greg-g> rick_h: thank god, i'd qustion your sanity
<rick_h> David Siegel actually
<snap-l> Yeah, me too
<greg-g> huh.....
<rick_h> (old gnome do original author)
<snap-l> There are people who still listen to fabsh
<greg-g> yeah, I no longer follow him, but, surprised he follows fabsh (or someone who does)
<greg-g> snap-l: why?
<snap-l> greg-g: I'm a programmer, not a fucking mind reader. :)
<rick_h> ok, trailer unpackged, lawn mower oil changed along with a new blade, and lawn mowed. I've earned a trip up to the ice cream store /me thinks
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm waiting for 8pm to mow the lawn
<greg-g> nice
<rick_h> camping pics for those interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157634236817199/ (scroll down past the early pics of the camper itself)
<greg-g> ugh, this coffee shop wifi is dropping like its hot
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I wanted until 6pm, but didn't want to risk keeping the boy awake with lawn mower noises.
<rick_h> I'm 4 days sans latte now and need a coffee shop...but it's too hot for a latte :/
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm pretty sure the neighbor's kids are up long after my bedtime
<snap-l> And we don't have that much to mow, so I'll likely be done in a half-hour with the gas mower
<rick_h> love this one, poor guy was beat wating for the hay ride http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/9116839681/in/set-72157634236817199
<rick_h> snap-l: I thought you had a scissor mower?
<snap-l> I have both now
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I've got a little bit more. Though I do <3 being able to mulch with the new blade installed. Went a lot faster.
<snap-l> That picture is adorable
<snap-l> Yeah, if I can't mulch, I'll turn the damn thing into asphalt
<rick_h> we wore him out...and now. To go give daddy good-nights and ride my bike up for some ice cream!
<rick_h> ugh, 90% of the time we bag. 4-8 bags depending :(
<greg-g> that photo of him on your head is indeed awesome
<snap-l> I have a bag on the back of the mower. It's merely a suggestion as far as I can tell
<greg-g> highly approve
<snap-l> since it all clumps near the front, and is not worth the trouble
<snap-l> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/changelog/migration_09.html#columns-can-reliably-get-their-type-from-a-column-referred-to-via-foreignkey
<snap-l> Yay
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-16
<cmaloney> http://programmerryangosling.tumblr.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WDI6X - Programmer Ryan Gosling
<cmaloney> Also: http://youtu.be/Ky4wTMZ0AZM
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/uHGgmI - Skiltron - Bagpipes of War (with Lyrics) - YouTube
<jrwren> i prefer to read that as program merry ango sling
<jrwren> crazy.  http://hellsangeled.blogspot.com/2010/04/william-billy-wadd-smith-former-boss-of.html   My bro-in-laws parents sold that pbar to this guy
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/B4ExCd - Hells Angel Road Master: William "Billy Wadd" Smith, a former boss of the Devils Diciples bike club
<rick_h_> cmaloney: was a cool movie
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Wasn't it? :)
<greg-g> !np Phlegethon
<greg-g> does bookiebot hate me?
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's current track - Suspicious Minds by Elvis Presley on Elvis: 30 #1 Hits
<greg-g> oh right
<greg-g> curious how this'll show up:
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's current track - Local God by Everclear on Ten Years Gone: The Best of Everclear
<greg-g> last.fm's album support is wack
<greg-g> actual album: "William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet - Music From The Motion Picture"
<greg-g> hells yeah, one of the best sound tracks to come out of the mid-90s
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/games/games-ive-written/shutbox/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/nhQDU3 - Shut The Box | Craig Maloney
<cmaloney> Put up the Java version on github.
<cmaloney> Also: Good morning
<mrgoodcat> good morning to you
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<mrgoodcat> not bad
<mrgoodcat> wish i could afford things...
<mrgoodcat> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sqdr/hexo-your-autonomous-aerial-camera
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/j6NVwA - HEXO+: Your Autonomous Aerial Camera by Squadrone System â Kickstarter
<cmaloney> And you need this why? :)
<cmaloney> OK, that is pretty awesome. :)
<mrgoodcat> i want it for mountainbiking and such
<mrgoodcat> also because it's just pretty cool
<cmaloney> 3421 albums with 35979 songs by 3405 artists.
<greg-g> how many gigs?
<cmaloney> 858G	/mnt/music/Music
<cmaloney> Most of it is FLAC files.
<greg-g> niiice
<greg-g> I'm paltry in comparison
<greg-g> greg@x200s:/mnt/seagate3/Music$ git-annex info .
<greg-g> directory: .
<greg-g> local annex keys: 14642
<greg-g> local annex size: 286.71 gigabytes
<cmaloney> 172G	/mnt/music/Music/open_metalcast
<cmaloney> That's all directly related to the show
<cmaloney> 105G	/mnt/music/Music/magnatune
<greg-g> according to LMS:
<greg-g> Total Tracks: 10,662
<greg-g> Total Albums: 896
<greg-g> Total Artists: 187
<greg-g> Total Genres: 76
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cmaloney> Total Playing Time: 2788:47:14
<greg-g> 1469:28:26 for me
<cmaloney> yea, I think I could DJ for 116 straight days without a repeat
<cmaloney> though there's a lot of classical and some repeats in there
<greg-g> define repeat? covers or actual repeats?
<greg-g> remastered vs originals?
<greg-g> odd, gmusicbrowser says 10660 tracks, LMS says 10662
<greg-g> no way to diff the two :/
<cmaloney> Some rip-repeats, some remastered albums
<cmaloney> A few BBC Music albums got re-ripped
<cmaloney> because the metadata on those things is a real PITA.
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Also: I've come to LOOOOVE Musicbrainz
<cmaloney> even though they infuriate me at times. :)
<cmaloney> Mostly because of what's not there. :)
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> add it!
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> I DO!
<greg-g> I just completed a re-rip session, still have a bunch of lower importance CDs in the queue, but all of my stuff should be re-ripped to flac now.
<cmaloney> Well, if you have any Suicide Silence you are in luck
<cmaloney> because apparently someone added metadata for their discography
<cmaloney> https://musicbrainz.org/user/whygottalogin
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Wwyin4 - Editor âwhygottaloginâ - MusicBrainz
<greg-g> is that you?
<cmaloney> Yep
<greg-g> ahh, yes
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-17
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<jrwren> evening
<cmaloney> I wish this band were Cc-licensed: http://hothmusic.bandcamp.com/album/oathbreaker
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cTJH0H - Oathbreaker | Hoth
<cmaloney> It's essentially a concept album about Anakin Skywalker. :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I think I've convinced myself that I don't need Mac address filtering
<cmaloney> baby-steps. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> big move cmaloney
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a huge step
<cmaloney> mostly because I'm not too thrilled if I need to get another Wifi router of hand-copying those addresses.
<cmaloney> And partially because it's a "shed lock". It doesn't keep anyone out other than honest folk.
<cmaloney> Pretty soon I'll be running an open network and frolicking like greg-g. :)
<cmaloney> as you do
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well just get comcast and they'll public wifi it for you :P
<cmaloney> Man that grinds me
<jrwren> would you prefer they do it at their pole?
<krondor> cmaloney: dd-wrt (or other nice firmware), guest network and private network is what I do
<jrwren> the electric company does the same thing technically with their wireless meter reading system. Difference being only the meter person can connect to that wireless access point :)
<krondor> cmaloney:  I've also seen some throw a QR code on their fridge that lets devices that can scan it connect to their wifi
<krondor> jrwren:  I think that would be preferable in my mind to using my residence or whatever
<cmaloney> krondor: Yeah, I might do the tiered networking at some point
<cmaloney> krondor: Finally going to be in a house where I have to think about logstics. :)
<jrwren> new house?
<krondor> if your home ownership is anythign like mine wifi will soon be the least of your logistical worries
<cmaloney> Yeah,we're moving this weekend
<jrwren> congrats.
<cmaloney> krondor: Bah, a boy can dream. :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you.
<cmaloney> krondor: I'm able to serve most of the current house from the back of the house.
<cmaloney> So I was thinking of using WDS or something similar.
<cmaloney> Though finding that WDS is a 50% hit is not making me happy. :)
<krondor> yeah WDS can be a mixed bag and it meshes over wifi so you lose capacity, and it's very dependent on like for like APs.
<brousch__> I bought some ubiquity WAPs. They should arrive soon
<cmaloney> yeah. The previous owners had a lot of coax throughout the house, so there's already holes in the floor.
<krondor> if you run the ethernet you could just do more APs with the same SSIDs. Versus WDS you can have some issues with sticky connections though
<krondor> that is a device holding on to a weaker AP signal instead of hopping to the stronger one closer to it
<cmaloney> Ah, so similar to "work". ;)
<krondor> like such; http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Access_Point
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JUDZ - Wireless access point - DD-WRT Wiki
<krondor> like minds :)
<cmaloney> bookiebot is a bot. :)
<cmaloney> .echo Hi krondor
<bookiebot> Hi krondor
<krondor> ugh it's early where's my coffee
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Ok, off to work and such.
<cmaloney> brb.
<cmaloney> Good morning again. ;)
<mrgoodcat> and to you
<mrgoodcat> i missed a lot of conversation this morning it looks like
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a momentous occasion
<greg-g> cmaloney: buying a house?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Long story, but moving into a bigger house.
<greg-g> coolio
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> We won't have our Japanese Knotweed collection.
<brousch__> A bigger house? with room for children?
<cmaloney> And room under the floorboards
<cmaloney> hint hint
<cmaloney> Actually we'll have room for children. With a padlock.
<brousch__> Why would you give a child a padlock?
<cmaloney> So they can lock themselves in the room.
<greg-g> cmaloney: so, on this esoteric topic again: what is a simple, easy to use, but also useful local Logitech Media player? One I can install on my laptop, point it at an IP, and play my music?
<greg-g> I guess I've never been happy with 'em ;)
<brousch__> logitech?
<cmaloney> squeezelite?
<greg-g> yeah
<cmaloney> That's what I use.
<greg-g> kk
<cmaloney> There's Squeezeslave, but it is locked to 44.1khz
<cmaloney> Squeezelite has no interface so you'll need to control it via other means.
<greg-g> hmm, squeezelite is headless? Have to control it via the LMS itself?
<cmaloney> let me share you my script.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Which is a "good thing"
<greg-g> that's fine, i just setup a home vpn
<greg-g> oh?
<greg-g> why?
<cmaloney> squeezeslave has a curses client
<greg-g> I want, basically, the Squeeebox Touch on my laptop
<cmaloney> reason I think squeezelite headless with LMS web page is better is because the LMS web page can do everything
 * greg-g ponders setting up a craiglist search for another one, just in case
<greg-g> gotcha
<cmaloney> Yeah, tell me about it
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7660010/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HURVEi - Ubuntu Pastebin
<cmaloney> That's the script that I use for my work Squeezelite.
<cmaloney> I run a SSH tunnel so port :9000 and :3483 are pointing at localhost
<cmaloney> -z is "daemonize"
<greg-g> I don't hear anything
<cmaloney> You might want to try running it without -z for now to see if there's any output
<greg-g> none
<cmaloney> -d all
<cmaloney> Bah, later version of Squeezelite needs -s for the server.
<greg-g> this is connecting
<greg-g> LMS thinks it's controlling it
<greg-g> http://paste.debian.net/105524/
<cmaloney> Did you select it as a player? :)
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> I just switched to a flac file from mp3 and see:
<greg-g> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
<greg-g> Server: Logitech Media Server (7.7.3 - 1375965195)
<greg-g> Connection: close
<greg-g> Content-Type: audio/x-flac
<greg-g> in the debug
<greg-g> i just don't hear anythig
<cmaloney> Vol / mute?
<greg-g> gah!
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> my sound output was set to headphones, for some weird reason
<cmaloney> I know that sound. :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, Squeezelite has active development
<cmaloney> and frankly not having to keep another terminal window open == a
<cmaloney> a+
<cmaloney> Chances are you'll have a browser open anyway.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> true
<cmaloney> That's pretty much how I ran Squeezeslave.
<cmaloney> unfortunately things like TWIT and WRCJ would sound like drunken chipmunks.
<greg-g> twit *isn't* a bunch of drunken chipmunks?
 * greg-g just walked by their office this morning, in fact
<cmaloney> There's some Java interfaces that mimic the classic Squeezebox interface but they're kind of a pain to use, and don't sound as good
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> http://sourceforge.net/projects/softsqueeze/files/softsqueeze/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N8lene - Softsqueeze - Browse /softsqueeze at SourceForge.net
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> that's as old as the dark them I used last night that totally broke
<cmaloney> Yeah. It was one of the first things that I tried
<cmaloney> then I found squeezeslave, and finally squeezelite.
<greg-g> and squeezelite is in debian, so, yay
<cmaloney> Yeah. If I could figure out how to have it do something sane on @reboot I'd never have to manually run "ru_squeezelite" again
<cmaloney> but that's another topic.
<greg-g> also, yay gapless playback
 * greg-g goes to test a good test of that
<greg-g> yeah, perfect gapless there
<greg-g> parabol -> parabola on Tool's Lateralus
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's my go-to- player for my music library
<cmaloney> greg-g: Do you have last.fm set up?
<greg-g> that's a tough one if the gapless sucks, it's a crescendo
<greg-g> uh...
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Strip the Soul (edit) by Porcupine Tree on Futile [17 Jun 2014, 04:30]
<greg-g> nope
<cmaloney> Yeah, head to settings / player
<greg-g> i have to do that per player?
<greg-g> kk
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> And give it a nice name
<greg-g> done
<cmaloney> Nice thing is you can also set max bitrate
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's last track - Strip the Soul (edit) by Porcupine Tree on Futile [17 Jun 2014, 04:30]
<cmaloney> so if you are at work and using ssh tunnel, you can cap it at 160kbps
<cmaloney> or whatever
<greg-g> hmm, might take til the next track
<greg-g> gotcha
<cmaloney> so I've used it at B&N in their cafe to listen to music
<cmaloney> or OCC
<greg-g> "(Note: You do not appear to have LAME installed. Logitech Media Server will need the LAME MP3 encoder installed on your system to do conversion to MP3. You can find out more about LAME here.)  "
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> ahh
<greg-g> so, that only works for mp3s? not flac then I assume
<greg-g> which uh... is the main bandwidth culprit ;)
<greg-g> maybe lame works on flac as well? 'tis been forever since I effed with lame
<cmaloney> it works for flac
<brousch__> greg-g: It's official. You're not lame
<cmaloney> it'll down-sample
<cmaloney> so if the bitrate is more than 160kpbs it'll resample and ship that file.
<greg-g> oh, but I need that on the LMS, which is my synology nas, which.... yeah
<cmaloney> Yeah, that might be a little fun
<greg-g> no pre-built package.... another day
<greg-g> i wish it was easy to flash a real OS on that nice little box
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> but yeah, if I could keep an SSH tunnel on my phone without destroying the battery I'd be connected to the squeezebox all the time
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> fuck this clopud shit. :)
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's current track - Third Eye (live) by Tool on Salival
<greg-g> there we go
<cmaloney> NIce net-split.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Despair by Hoth on Oathbreaker
<cmaloney> Great. Apparently there's a band from Flint called King 810
<cmaloney> apparently they're making a name for themselves by being assholes.
<cmaloney> yay
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> ugh, /me hates hot weather
<rick_h_> portland!!!!! portland!!!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-18
<waf> isn't portland super rainy?
<rick_h_> yes why yes it is and I like the rain :)
<rick_h_> first thing every says like it's a bad thing. I've got to turn the lawn sprinklers on tomorrow because the sun is nuking my crappy grass
<waf> hahaha, ok. well then it sounds perfect
<waf> screw grass, we should all make like san diego-ians (?) and replace grass with green rocks.
<waf> don't have to water rocks.
<cmaloney> I want to replace my grass with solar panels
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> grass needs water already?
<rick_h_> yea, I live in retiree area where they have their manucured lawns and it's golf course green
<cmaloney> jrwren: Certain grasses do
<jrwren> I'm cursing all the rain we've been getting because I have to mow too often.
<cmaloney> jrwren: ++
<jrwren> i can't wait for august :)
<jrwren> less mowing
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, we've got sandy soil here. So all that water runs away down to the wetlands behind the house
<jrwren> ah, sandy soil.
<rick_h_> so for 3' from the edge of my property it's green and tall
<jrwren> you could build up that soil over a few years
<rick_h_> the rest is quickly browning fail
<rick_h_> yea, I talked to the retired guy across the street once
<rick_h_> they had 18" excavated and filled with topsoil and then had the lawn laid out
<jrwren> 18"!!!
<jrwren> that seems excessive
<rick_h_> no idea, I heard that and went "yea...that's nice"
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a bit much
<krondor> so last night you guys were saying about rain? looks like it's rain the rest of the week
<brousch__> lovely
<brousch__> Good light show last night
<rick_h_> no sprinklers this week then woot!
 * krondor curses rain god rick_h_ for killing yet another week of biking fun
<brousch__> You can bike in the rain. Don't be a wuss.
<rick_h_> krondor: time for fenders :)
<krondor> it's mountain biking and scary biker guys will kick your ass if you mess up the trails in the mud
<brousch__> How would they know it's you?
<mrgoodcat> krondor: mud riding is some of the best
<mrgoodcat> do you have a set of fattys?
<krondor> absolutely it's ufn.  No fattys, but I'm on 2.2" width so they don't sink too bad
<krondor> these guys (cramba) in our area maintain a lot of the park trails; http://www.cramba.org/2012/11/29/ride-dirt-trails-not-mud-trails/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MsmWGj - Ride Dirt Trails, Not Mud Trails. | CRAMBA-IMBA
<mrgoodcat> I ride my dad's moonlander in the mud sometimes
<mrgoodcat> since i volunteer to help maintain the trail i don't feel too bad
<krondor> mrgoodcat:  nice, I'm a mooch but always think of helping.
<krondor> I also think the mud damage probably highly depends on the type of trail and the riding style
<krondor> I'm probably too slow to cause any real harm lol
<mrgoodcat> on a moonlander it is pretty difficult to really mess up the trail
<mrgoodcat> the tire is 4.5" or something in that range
<mrgoodcat> 4.8
<krondor> yeah that's a lot of surface area to spread weight out.  Is it hard to peddle that thing?
<mrgoodcat> nah not too bad
<mrgoodcat> i don't ride it very often though
<mrgoodcat> usually i'm just on my diamondback
<mrgoodcat> really any time you would be riding the moondlander it is actually *easier* because you're in soft terrain that would be a total bitch on a normal tire
<krondor> yeah that makes sense
<brousch__> Why is it so dark outside?
<cmaloney> Apparently the storms last night scared our alarm clock
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: mine too
<cmaloney> Yeah, I woke up only a few minutes ago
<jrwren> wow.
<_stink_> gah
<_stink_> what is the current 'right' way to build .debs?  suddenly i have a reason to do it again and those tools and the advice for using them seem to change like every 8 days.
<_stink_> google is useless.
<_stink_> the current version in 14.04 is broken and the bug is in launchpad and is fixed upstream.  i presume i apt-get source the package, apply the fix, but then what?
<cmaloney> _stink_:Your best bet would be to find a debian developer to do it for you
<cmaloney> I hear they like whiskey.
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> oh how many angry feelings about packaging this dredges up.
<jrwren> _stink_: there is not "right" way except what works for you.
<jrwren> _stink_: are you doing it for internal use, or for PPA or for inclusion in universe?
<_stink_> jrwren: first for personal use, but if i can make a ppa at least until the official one gets updated i want to.
<jrwren> _stink_: "then what?"  A: run debuild
<_stink_> i know i have to do the keys and stuff for a ppa
<_stink_> ok cool.
<_stink_> what is dpkg-buildpackage, then?
<_stink_> they appear to do the same thing
<_stink_> but some say to use one, others the other
<jrwren> not just that, but you have to rev the pkg version in debian/changelog and either update the original tar.gz which apt-get source fetched, or apply the patch in the debian/ dir
<jrwren> debuild does a bunch of checks and eventually runs dpkg-buildpackage for you
<_stink_> *thank you*.
<_stink_> that is what i needed
<jrwren> if you don't care about hte checks, you can use dpkg-buildpackage and skip debuild
<_stink_> i like checks
<jrwren> the checks are stuff you need to get it into a PPA
<jrwren> heck, I think PPA runs debuild, so that has to at least succeed locally
<_stink_> jrwren: thank you for making me less angry
<jrwren> you are welcome.
<jrwren> anytime you have dpkg questions, I'll try to help. I've gotten beyond nub status and into dangrous on this topic
<_stink_> hah, perfect.
<cmaloney> _stink_: See, all it takes is a little whiskey. ;)
<mrgoodcat> mmm whisky
<mrgoodcat> scotch++
<cmaloney> http://musicandriotsmagazine.com/?p=10657
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/vQH22I - Exclusive Stream: Colosso's Foregone Semblances 7" | musicandriotsmagazine.com
<jrwren> http://blog.ziade.org/2014/05/23/data-decentralization-amp-mozilla/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/NuW9h6 - Data decentralization & Mozilla
<jrwren> cool
<greg-g> jrwren: I may have missed something, but is there anything new/actionable in that post?
<brousch__> It's coming for you guys next https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101667/2014-06-18%2013.02.24.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/l33N3t - image/jpeg
<jrwren> greg-g: nah, that post was from a month ago.  I just now saw it, or was reminded of it.
<cmaloney> brousch__: Yeah, saw that on G+
<cmaloney> yay more storms
<brousch__> video is processing
<greg-g> what is this "weather" thing you all keep talking about?
<brousch__> It's like intense fog
<greg-g> oh, we have that
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> the video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x370asm044dcyde/2014-06-18%2017.04.28.mp4
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/HyM4ZB - Dropbox - 2014-06-18 17.04.28.mp4
<greg-g> I clicked ow.ly links so you don't have to
<brousch__> Gee, thanks :P
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> i wish I could figure out why my fucking machine keeps pausing every few seconds
<cmaloney> it is driving me insane
<cmaloney> ls -al
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> brousch__: OMG THAT BUILDING WAS DEMOLISHED BY THE STORM?!?!!?!?!!
<brousch__> You mean the car shredding machine next door?
<greg-g> wow, codespaces.com
<greg-g> brousch__: yeah
<greg-g> brousch__: also, awesome, you have a car shredding machine next door?!
<greg-g> though, that must suck for concentration
<brousch__> It does. It vibrates our entire building all day long and explodes every month when they forget to empty a gas tank
<greg-g> lol
<brousch__> It's always funny the first time that happens after a new employee starts
<cmaloney> nice
<brousch__> They think a bomb went off while the rest of us ignore it as routine
<greg-g> ....until the real bomb goes off
<greg-g> shit, hi NSA
<greg-g> I may have a beard, but I'm not the enemy
<cmaloney> I'm about 3 seconds from smashing my computer
<cmaloney> fucking pauses are really pissing me off
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> and of course because hulk smash, hulk managed to break the stupid little tabs that raise the keyboard
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> Happens whenever I reboot my computer and I have no clue why it does it
<cmaloney> eventually it just ges away.
<cmaloney> Little things are really setting me off today.
<greg-g> I feel ya
<brousch__> pauses?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it'll just stop, like an SSH connection
<brousch__> I had behavior like that on my old computer. I finally figured out it was Akondi indexing all the things on my hard drive
<cmaloney> That might be helpful if I'd ever touched something KDE-related. :)
<brousch__> Is there not a Gnome equivalent?
<cmaloney> Not that I'm aware of
<cmaloney> more frustrating: whatever is happening isn't logging anything
<greg-g> tracker-something
<greg-g> cmaloney: there is
<cmaloney> I'm not running it
<greg-g> check (or uncheck) the boxes in the Search tab in your settings
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> greg-g: the only thing that terrifies me more than your beard is the US government :p
<cmaloney> And only a little bit
<jrwren> cmaloney: iotop show IO per process?
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<jrwren> greg-g: Burgers in bacon grease?!?!?! wtf?!?!?!
<greg-g> jrwren: well, we just got done making 4 slices of bacon, what'd you want us to do with it? :)
<jrwren> you know, your hippie status would like double, if you were vegetarian.
<greg-g> I used to be! then Carrie went paleo
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> i'm anti paleo
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not a fan of paleo
<cmaloney> I think it's a ridiculous variant of Atkins
<mrgoodcat> https://shutthebackdoor.net/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/A1coVb - Shut the NSA's Surveillance Backdoor
<mrgoodcat> vote today or tomorrow
<brousch__> I want to eat like my ancestors did when they lived to be 35!
<jrwren> my fad diet is beer and salad greens.
<jrwren> because once I have had enough beer, i odn't care what I eat, I just want more beer.
<brousch__> Really? I drink 1, 2 beers at most. Then don't want any more
<jrwren> i love beer.
<jrwren> but no, not really.
<cmaloney> btw: Does anyone have a leopold keyboard that they're not using the flip-out feet on? :)
<cmaloney> Asking for a friend.
<jrwren> anyone familiar enought with both cmake and autotools to give me a pros/cons of each?
<cmaloney> I get angry whenever I have to run cmake.
<cmaloney> That's about the only pro / con I have.
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-19
<rick_h_> evening
<mrgoodcat> hey
<mrgoodcat> you're up later than usual
<rick_h_> yea, just getting back to the hotel
<mrgoodcat> long day?
<rick_h_> just a bit :)
<mrgoodcat> missed you at CHC. craig said you were out of town
<rick_h_> yea, OH today/tomorrow
<mrgoodcat> how were the storms down there?
<mrgoodcat> traceroute -m 254 -q1 obiwan.scrye.net
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> -m 254?
<jrwren> that is a lot of hops, and I don't mean beer flavor
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: yea but it's worth it
<mrgoodcat> run the traceroute
<jrwren> oh, the star wars thing.
<jrwren> classic
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> was playing around with all the linux joke things yesterdayu
<mrgoodcat> apt-get moo is pretty good
<mrgoodcat> aptitude moo
<jrwren> many nerds went nuts over that not just because of the dns names, but because of all the play IPs required to do it.
<jrwren> N: Unable to locate package moo
<mrgoodcat> yea that is a lot
<mrgoodcat> not install
<mrgoodcat> apt-get moo
<jrwren> oh, lol
<jrwren> cowsay thanks
<jrwren> cowsay -f elephant I\'ll never forget
<mrgoodcat> fortune | b1ff | cowsay
<mrgoodcat> requires fortune cowsay and filters
<mrgoodcat>  _________________________________
<mrgoodcat> Q: WHAT IZ GREEN + LIVEZ IN THE \
<mrgoodcat> \ OCEAN??1??! A: MOBY PICKLE.     /
<mrgoodcat>  ---------------------------------
<mrgoodcat>         \   ^__^
<mrgoodcat>          \  (oo)\_______
<mrgoodcat>             (__)\       )\/\
<mrgoodcat>                 ||----w |
<mrgoodcat>                 ||     ||
<jrwren> b1ff is a new one to me.
<jrwren> well played
<jrwren> https://sandstorm.io/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ozolBk - Sandstorm
<brousch__> Hm, am I seeing this right? Ubuntu 14.04 server is only available in powerpc and 64bit? http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/DVDs/ubuntu/14.04/release/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WgN5lO - Index of /pub/ubuntu-iso/DVDs/ubuntu/14.04/release
<brousch__> Ah, 32bit is available via torrent
<mrgoodcat> brousch__: what do you need the 32 bit server for?
<greg-g> 4 gigs of RAM is enough for anyone
<mrgoodcat> {{number}} {{unit}} of {Disk/RAM} is enough for anyone.
<mrgoodcat> {{tech mogul from relevant era}}
<mrgoodcat> mogul might be the wrong word
<mrgoodcat> "All technology predictions suck." -Me
<brousch__> mrgoodcat: To install on a 8 year old computer
<mrgoodcat> wow
<mrgoodcat> home/work/project?
<brousch__> home firewall
<mrgoodcat> !rotw ah
<mrgoodcat> oh shoot
<mrgoodcat> just meant to say ah
<mrgoodcat> accidentally tapped "up"
<mrgoodcat> brousch__: linux or bsd?
<mrgoodcat> oh wait
<mrgoodcat> nevermind
<mrgoodcat> don't answer that
<mrgoodcat> 12:04:56 < brousch__> Hm, am I seeing this right? Ubuntu 14.04 serv....
<greg-g> what's the right make/model (size independent) SSD to buy these days?
<greg-g> rick_h_: jcastro ^^
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: right in what regard? speed/durability/size/price?
<greg-g> durability,mostly
<greg-g> consumer grade though
<mrgoodcat> relevant article incoming
<greg-g> not willing/wanting a commercial grade
<mrgoodcat> http://techreport.com/review/26523/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-casualties-on-the-way-to-a-petabyte
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ukNQcz - The SSD Endurance Experiment: Casualties on the way to a petabyte - The Tech Report - Page 1
<mrgoodcat> page 3 has the drives that made it to a petabyte
<jcastro> greg-g, I prefer intel but samsungs are also good
<jcastro> also crucial MX series
<jrwren> greg-g: samsung
<greg-g> looks like that
<greg-g> the samsung evo 840 (pro optional)
<mrgoodcat> in that extremely unscientific article i linked the intel was among the first to die
<mrgoodcat> the samsung uses TLC which dies a bit faster
<greg-g> see also: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-ssds/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jGQ67j - 403 Forbidden
<jrwren> plus, the 840 non-pro is near .5$/GB
<greg-g> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184253-ssd-shadiness-kingston-and-pny-caught-bait-and-switching-cheaper-components-after-good-reviews
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/5KSuls - SSD shadiness: Kingston and PNY caught bait-and-switching cheaper components after good reviews | ExtremeTech
<jrwren> which is a good price point IMO
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah
<jrwren> 840evo 500GB is $250 on amazon... still kinda $$$ for me, but the 250 for $135 is not bad.
<greg-g> yeah, 250gig is fine with me
<greg-g> I don't need it all on laptop
<greg-g> I have too much music and too many pictures for anything less than a TB to make sense to do "all"
<jrwren> if you run VMs on laptop, 250 can get tight
<greg-g> so I'm already going to do a subset
<greg-g> nope, luckily
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: i'd do this one http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE250BW/dp/B00E3W1726/?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qD4P78 - Amazon.com: Samsung Electronics 840 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Single Unit Version Internal Solid State Drive MZ-7TE250BW: Computers & Accessories
<greg-g> yep
<mrgoodcat> just a good deal
<mrgoodcat> tomshardware++
<greg-g> that's what I'm going to go get from best buy up the road
<greg-g> same price, in fact
<brousch__> I'm very happy with the 840 pros. I have 6 of them currently in use with no problems
<brousch__> I have had 100% of my OCZ and Kingston SSDs fail. That's 2/2
<jrwren> i'm soooo tempted to click buy it now on that..
<jrwren> why are you linking me to such awesome?
<greg-g> fuck this day, that is all
<cmaloney> greg-g: Saw someone mention en.wikipedia was down
<cmaloney> and all I could think was that greg-g was having a bad say
<cmaloney> day
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> first: ssd on laptop died
<greg-g> while I'm at best buy, the parser cache falls over
<brousch__> greg-g: What make/model SSD died?
<greg-g> can't remember
<greg-g> haven't had time to disassemble yet
<greg-g> see above
<brousch__> I assumed you were all set since you are chatting on here ;)
<greg-g> irssi lives on a colo'd server
<greg-g> and irc is part of work, sooo
<greg-g> how could one debug things like "alt+num" not being passed through to irssi through gnome-terminal -> mosh -> server with irssi running
<greg-g> works on my (now dead x200s install of debian jessie but not this x230 with an install of debian jessie
<greg-g> s/dead/dead)/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-20
<greg-g> cmaloney: it's your fault
<greg-g> it's all your fault
<greg-g> squeezelite was running as root on startup, taking all available cpu, if I waited too long I couldn't even log in via tty1
<greg-g> the good news is it wasn't a dead disk
<greg-g> semi-bad news: now I have an extra SSD
<greg-g> I wonder where it would be getting started on boot from
<greg-g> for now: sudo apt-get remove squeezelite
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm still intel or bust
<rick_h_> espcecially after the articles showing that some ssd makers used quality parts when first release to get good reviews, and then switched out later
<rick_h_> and for the record, fuck cancer beyond any hope of ever being unfucked...thus ends my tirade of the day
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> greg-g: Seriously? Squeezelite was part of the issue?
<cmaloney> I guess I've never run it as root so didn't know.
<greg-g> I never have either!
<greg-g> something was starting it as root on boot
<greg-g> :/
<cmaloney> greg-g: Did you install using the binary or a package?
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> sleepy
<cmaloney> Long drive back?
<rick_h_> it wasn't too bad
<rick_h_> a little over 4hr drive
<cmaloney> Fun fun
<cmaloney> What time did you get back?
<rick_h_> around 9ish
<cmaloney> Not bad, but that's still a long day. :)
<jrwren> greg-g: great deal and probably as god as samsung:http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX100-adapter-Internal-CT256MX100SSD1/dp/B00KFAGCWK%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00KFAGCWK
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Rx4t5T - Amazon.com: Crucial MX100 256GB SATA 2.5" 7mm (with 9.5mm adapter) Internal Solid State Drive CT256MX100SSD1: Computers & Accessories
<brousch__> I'm going to get this as my untangle firewall http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Celeron-Mini-ITX-Gigabyte-GA-C1007UN-D/dp/B00ESN1YXW/ref=sr_1_11?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1403270782&sr=1-11#productDetails
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/EnTQ7D - Amazon.com : Intel Celeron 1007U Dual LAN Mini-ITX PC, 4GB, Morex T3410, Gigabyte GA-C1007UN-D : Desktop Computers : Computers & Accessories
<jrwren> untangle?
<jrwren> brousch__: that looks really cool. nice price. to bad its only dual core
<brousch__> A firewall distro
<jrwren> its like a cheap nuc :)
<mrgoodcat> happy friday
<brousch__> I have untangle running on 2 computers right now. So I looked up the CPU benchmarks on them to figure out what minimum I needed for decent performance
<brousch__> I could probably get away with an Atom D2550, but the celeron was cheaper
<brousch__> And 2.5x more performance
<brousch__> I have a 128GB Samsung Pro SSD sitting around for it, too
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> SSDs sitting around!  you must be rich!
<brousch__> only 128GB
<jrwren> ONLY
<mrgoodcat> greg-g has an SSD sitting around now too
<mrgoodcat> 256G
<mrgoodcat> brousch__: you run untangle at home?
<brousch__> Now I do
<brousch__> As of last night. I installed on that 8 year old computer, but it's running slowly and the nics are reporting a lot of errors
<brousch__> I'm going to rip that out and run it on that mini-itx computer
<mrgoodcat> doesn't seem a bit much for home?
<brousch__> untangle is a bit much? The free tier is quite nice. Firewall, virus scan, adblock, spyware block, web filter by category, phishing block, intrusion prevention, attack block, openvpn
<brousch__> It's really all stuff you want in a home firewall, and easy to use
<cmaloney> Seems a bit much overall
<brousch__> who-house adblock makes it worth it by itself
<cmaloney> All I want from a firewall is port blocking
<brousch__> whole-house
<cmaloney> and a place to plonk facebook
<cmaloney> and DHCP with static addresses
<brousch__> it has all of that
<brousch__> and dns
<cmaloney> and a few other things but definitely not all the scanning and nanny-blocking
<brousch__> and will email reports to you daily
<brousch__> Each of those features is a separate "app" that you can install or remove
<brousch__> Also configure or disable
<brousch__> The email reports come as csv or pdf with nice charts
<greg-g> sounds like my router
<greg-g> minus the things I don't want ;)
<brousch__> with a nice web gui :P
<greg-g> my router has a web gui
<greg-g> and my NAS provides the openvpn (and more). i guess I don't see the appeal of yet another machine to manage :/
<brousch__> It's not. You use it to replace your router
<brousch__> So the same amount of maintenance
<greg-g> but then I need to buy some machine with 3+ gigE ports plus a decent/powerful wifi antannea?
<brousch__> Doesn't do wifi
<greg-g> ... then you moved me from 1 to 2 machines
<brousch__> I installed ubiquity wifi too. I'm not sure they count as machines
<brousch__> Basically a bunch of WAPs you configure through any computer on the network
<rick_h_> jcastro_: xps ordered. Looks like a month out
<greg-g> xps?!?!
<rick_h_> jcastro_: so we'll see I guess.
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, got the new xps13 DE, can't bring myself to get the lenovo, tired of the air sucking, and no other thing looks reasonable
<rick_h_> I'm hoping yours was a lemon or something. Others speak highly of it.
<rick_h_> but can't carry two laptops any more. So tired of it
<greg-g> the keyboard is even worse than the new lenovos
<rick_h_> but not in any decent form factor
<greg-g> you like your macbook air?
<greg-g> then you'll like the xps ;)
<rick_h_> no, I don't like the air except I love the overall size/etc
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> but the keyboard, non-working camera, etc sucks
<greg-g> so now you just need to lug the xps and your kinesis around :P
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> pretty much
<greg-g> I lug my kinesis on work trips
<greg-g> and still just pack in one carry-on for 5 days
<rick_h_> I picked up the freestyle and tempted to bring it on the next work trip
<rick_h_> it's big
<rick_h_> ouch, not sure how I'll do that though. Especially as now I've got camera gear to bring with me
<greg-g> oh yeah, that stuff is heavy too
<rick_h_> thinking my london trip might be a checked bag :(
<rick_h_> naw, I got small camera stuff
<rick_h_> nice and light and small, but still, a carry on is just a carry on
<greg-g> well, one glass lens is heavier than the kinesis
<greg-g> big glass lens*
<greg-g> but you got that new small camera, so maybe not
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043VE28S/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is my heaviest/biggets lense and I might leave it behind
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/73l2OA - Amazon.com : Panasonic H-FS100300 Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F/4.0-5.6 MEGA O.I.S. Lens : Camera Lenses : Camera & Photo
<rick_h_> just over 1lb
<greg-g> what! amazon says the kinesis is 3.4 pounds
 * greg-g picks his up
<greg-g> that's 3.4 pounds?
<greg-g> huh
<jcastro_> rick_h_, end of an era huh
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, first non-thinkpad in something like 10yrs
<rick_h_> jcastro_: ouch, looked at linked in to see when I graduated college (got into thinkpads in school) and realized it was 2000 when I got my first thinkpad
<rick_h_> so first one in 14yrs :/
<jcastro_> I too fear I have bought my last thinkpad. :(
<jcastro_> I mean, the new X1 is literally a joke
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> yea, not even close or in consideration
<jcastro_> like, if it's going to go that way, then might as well just spend $200 on a chromebook
 * greg-g hugs his x200s tightly
<jcastro_> and save the grand for something useful
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea that was one of the last good ones
<jcastro_> rick_h_, it's like I woke up one day and developer laptops just died.
<jcastro_> "chromebook, and ssh to a cloud"
<jcastro_> is the new thing it seems
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yep, the last bastion gave in.
<greg-g> jcastro_: blame the ruby kids and their macbook airs
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro_> greg-g, I think it's sad that no one else is even trying to compete with the air
<greg-g> yeah, true
<rick_h_> yea, the air has a winning size for things since you don't need the horsepower these days
<rick_h_> I love carrying it around the house
<rick_h_> but then USING it sucks so bad
<jcastro_> well, a dual core i5 isn't exactly slow
<greg-g> I mean, the pros are still standard issue in most engineering firms now, but at places like Eventbrite, you need to make a really strong case why you want something non-apple
<jcastro_> lol
<greg-g> remember Asheesh/paulproteous?
<jcastro_> That sounds like a nightmare
<greg-g> he works at Eventbrite now, and had to make a huge deal to get a thinkpad
<jcastro_> "prove to use that we shouldn't waste money." It's like ... what?
<greg-g> or github, garauntee they have a similar thing
<greg-g> they wrote their own puppet-based macbook provisioning thingy
<greg-g> it's what happens with the startup mentality
<greg-g> "startup" in scare quotes
<jcastro_> shrug
<jcastro_> hey man, THINK DIFFERENT
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro_> It's hard to argue against a $200 chromebook
<jcastro_> If they just made a bit of a higher end one with like, backlit keyboards, etc.
<mrgoodcat> <3 my 200$ chromebook
<mrgoodcat> well 300$ but it would have been 200$ if i didn't get the touchscreen
<rick_h_> I was tempted to check out a pixel
<rick_h_> but no go
<jcastro_> too much
<jcastro_> it's like 1200 still?
<rick_h_> yep
<mrgoodcat> you can get them used significantly cheaper
<mrgoodcat> wish my c720 had a nicer screen
<mrgoodcat> thats my only complaint though
<jcastro_> yeah I have a 720
<jcastro_> I found that I need a backlit keyboard or something too
<mrgoodcat> use it in bed a lot?
<mrgoodcat> i do
<mrgoodcat> but i haven't had any problems seeing the keyboard. It's a comfortable enough size that I hardly ever even look at it
<brousch__> Bah, you can get a used/refurb pixel for $850
<mrgoodcat> see thats not bad
<brousch__> Also, how does this not compete with a macbook air? http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/thinkpad/thinkpad-helix/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/CrCJM - Tablet Laptop Hybrid: ThinkPad Helix Ultrabook Laptop - Free Shipping | Lenovo (US)
<mrgoodcat> although not good enough to convince me to get that instead of this :)
<mrgoodcat> by being like twice as heavy
<mrgoodcat> and more expensive
<mrgoodcat> and less shiny
<mrgoodcat> the shinyness is the really important part though
<brousch__> Or the yoga 2 pro. same price as 13" air, about the same weight, qhd+ display http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/yoga-laptop-series/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/R1tjSX - Lenovo Yoga Laptop Series | Convertible Entertainment Laptops | Lenovo (US)
<greg-g> "entertainment" laptops?
<greg-g> wtf world
<rick_h_> ok, cracking up http://r.bmark.us/u/1c572f5b5720c8
<rick_h_> brousch__: the touchpad pad is reviewed to be horrible, the display is too high for a small screen, battery life fail, and more
<rick_h_> brousch__: I did look into that one
<brousch__> which one?
<rick_h_> brousch__: the yoga
<brousch__> too high?!
<rick_h_> yea, I've got 4k in a 24" screen
<brousch__> You can finally have that 2pt font you've always dreamed of
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> you need graphics cycles and battery power to push that display...
<rick_h_> it's why I'm anti the super res phones
<mrgoodcat> my dad has a yoga 2
<mrgoodcat> works fine
<mrgoodcat> screen looks good
<mrgoodcat> he hates it tho
<brousch__> I love the idea of the helix. Detachable touch screen
<brousch__> Only 1920x1080 on 11"
<jcastro_> rick_h_, http://stackoverflow.com/a/16539475/464941
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TFMByV - word wrap - vim command to restructure/force text to 80 columns - Stack Overflow
<jcastro_> will this enable me to force vim to always just reflow/hard wrap at 80?
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, you want set textwidth=78 and set whichwrap=b,s,h,l,<,>,[,]
<greg-g> it does it as you type with those commands
<greg-g> which means if you go back up and make a line shorter in a long paragraph, you'll need to reflow it
<jcastro_> whoa whoa, explain whichwrap to me
<greg-g> oh, that ones new to me, too
<rick_h_> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Automatically_wrap_left_and_right
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VjRAbB - Automatically wrap left and right - Vim Tips Wiki
<rick_h_> sorry, had wrap in the name and grabbed it, but more about cursor movement
<jcastro_> ahhh
<jcastro_> still useful though
<rick_h_> so this makes vim act like it's a real paragraph
<rick_h_> even though it's wrapped as new lines
<jcastro_> why 78 btw?
<rick_h_> because you don't want to bump right at 80 because of things like punctuation , : etc
<rick_h_> hmm, actually though I think we limited to 79, and so I was set one char less than that
<rick_h_> so maybe you want 79 instead of 78
<greg-g> I set mine to 72 in my .vimrc-email which is invoked by mutt so people can quote me a couple times
<rick_h_> yea, I do the same
<rick_h_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7675950/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/NyKp8u - Ubuntu Pastebin
<greg-g> huh
<rick_h_> ?
<greg-g> never seen augroup before
 * greg-g is still a young padawan in the ways of vim
<greg-g> alright, time for an early lunch/late breakfast
<rick_h_> foruntately that gq command stuff will auto reflow replies with the starting > nicely so I reflow people's emails all the time when I reply
<havenstance> Greetings
<sydney> And salutations :p
<havenstance> how's everyone been? It's been a while
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, are you ok? i saw your g+ update and have worried all afternoon.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-21
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> BTW: I'm OK. We're getting things pretty squared away for moving them
<cmaloney> sis-in-law needs a little job help
<cmaloney> Didn't mean to worry folks. :)
<cmaloney> I forgot I have the power of awesome friends and caring folks.
<cmaloney> And now I think the main machine gets turned off
<cmaloney> Hello from $newplace.
<greg-g> cmaloney: hello there, how's it?
<cmaloney> OK. Stuff was moved in with some help in record time
<cmaloney> One of our quickest moves ever.
<greg-g> as long as you don't have any strained backs or over exerted arms, I'd say it's good :)
<greg-g> I've done that too many times in the past decade
<cmaloney> greg-g: I can imagine
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-22
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: welcome to the new digs
<rick_h_> sorry I didn't make it out, sounds like you got the move through quick
<rick_h_> trying to wake up here today and get moving. With the Ohio trip mid-week and the grad party yesterday just not having a lot of motivation
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, no worries.
<cmaloney> We had the truck packed at 10:30
<cmaloney> and unpacked around noon
<rick_h_> how's the new digs? Feeling roomy?
<cmaloney> And WOW was there early as well
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a little strange
<rick_h_> nice
<cmaloney> we're feeling like someone is going to say "OK, vacation is up! You have to leave now.
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, but otherwise it's interesting seeing where we're going to be putting things.
<rick_h_> that's fun
<havenstance> morn
<gamerchick02> howdy havenstance
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<sydney> Hello :D
<rick_h_> anyone want a linksys e3200 or 400N router?
<jrwren> i'd have said yes a couple months ago before I finally moved to N
<sydney> !eol
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, just moved to AC in the main router and ditched the other two now
<sydney> oops
<rick_h_> finally back to one wifi network
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-15
<cmaloney> God morning
<cmaloney> So let it be written, so let it be done.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> and craig said, let there be work, and there was.
<wolfger> heh
<cmaloney> And it was good.
<rick_h_> morning
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<cmaloney> Whassup?
<greg-g> grumpy
<rick_h_> greg-g: sorry, /me sends some party greg-g's way
<greg-g> I'll take my req# back, please
<greg-g> I went from 0 new hires for the next fiscal to now -1
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<greg-g> I have a backfill position (a person I let go) that somehow disappeared
<greg-g> I'm pissed
<rick_h_> greg-g: understand
<rick_h_> that's definitely "grumpy"-able
<cmaloney> greg-g: Ugh
<greg-g> now I get to go be grumpy asking people wtf happened and how they're going to make the situation better and not fuck over a coworker
<greg-g> ie: who's going to give me back a req#
<greg-g> whoa, new Fx settings menu
<greg-g> more Chrome-like
<greg-g> I like it
<jrwren> greg-g: you must not run developer edition?
<jrwren> greg-g: about:preferences has been chrome-like for a while now in Fx Dev Edition
<greg-g> jrwren: nope, iceweasel ;)
<jrwren> hardcore GNU
<greg-g> lazy debian user
<jrwren> greg-g: you might have these features too: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Performance
<jrwren> http://www.meetup.com/Ansible-Detroit/events/222394073/  cscheib ?
<cscheib> wut?
<jrwren> cscheib: fyi nsible meetup
<cscheib> aha
<cscheib> I may attempt to go.   you going?
<jrwren> no, i just thought you may like to know about it given your other meetup
<cmaloney> I'm debating on going
<cmaloney> http://xkcd.com/1537/ <- wolfger
<rick_h_> https://blog.lastpass.com/2015/06/lastpass-security-notice.html/
<wolfger> thanks for the heads up rick_h_
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-16
<wolfger> morning
<cscheib> I hate morning
<rick_h_> it's definitely something that I have a love/hate with
<wolfger> hate/hate
<wolfger> but I have had to do it for work for so long, I can't not be up early anymore.
<cscheib> usually I can sleep in considerably longer, but my allergies are acting up
<rick_h_> wolfger: yea, the worst is on vacation when you're laying there with eyes open at 6:30am going ... dammit I am not going to get up and make coffee until 7am at least!
<wolfger> lol
<wolfger> been there, done that
<cmaloney> Good morning
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney
<greg-g> soooo
<greg-g> last night, we had a search cluster outage
<greg-g> had another one the night before
<greg-g> guess what the cause was....
<greg-g> a candidate for a position I'm hiring for (the aforementioned one where the req# disappeared) after hearing we wanted some code samples took it upon himself to test our search feature with strings known to bring down google back a decade or so
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> "You're hired and you're pretty up to speed on your first project already"
<greg-g> or "dont' fucking test on things that will page people"
<jrwren> that is awesome.
<jrwren> If only I could have brought down rick_h's entire CI environment BEFORE my first day on the job, instead of 2hrs into it.
<wolfger> LOL
<rick_h_> yea, greg-g now has upped my story with jrwren
<rick_h_> it stood up for a good year :)
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> I got online, saw the search cluster outage, people were responding, I called/woke up the main guy, checked my email and a message from candidate with "so, I was testing, and here's the errors I found" ... I couldn't believe it at first and had the team confirm
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> that is amazing.
<jrwren> you got free QA
<jrwren> you are lucky he emailed you rather than some stranger poking at your server and wonder why it failed.
<cmaloney> greg-g: That is ... somewhere between awesome and a pain in the ass.
<wolfger> that is deserving of a Fry meme
<wolfger> Not sure if I should hire him  ...  Or report him to the FBI
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, definitely
<greg-g> wolfger: :)
<cmaloney> That's not FBI-worthy
<greg-g> depends if it's a violation of our ToU ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: good luck enforcing that.
<wolfger> just used keyword:terrorist
<wolfger> s/used/use/
<jrwren> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/07/court-violating-terms-service-not-crime-bypassing
<greg-g> jrwren: I know I know, it's a joke :P
<jrwren> greg-g: oh right, there is a winky smiley right there.  sorry.
<wolfger> "alleged terrorist used known exploit to shut down our servers". It's a stretch, but I bet you could find an FBI agent humorless enough to pursue it
<wolfger> at least to the point of making the guy sweat
<wolfger> possibly not actionable unless you can prove damages (e.g. outage cost you money)
<wolfger> but yeah, I'm inclined to say "you're hired, please don't do that again"
<jrwren> wife just came home with 2 qt of fresh picked strawberries
<greg-g> win
<greg-g> tummy ache time!
<jrwren> oh PainBank, what are we going to do with you?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-17
<greg-g> what's the name of that "irc replacement" service that all the startups use?
<greg-g> Slack
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> slack.
<jrwren> it makes me angry just thinking about it
<cmaloney> What's wrong with slack?
<cmaloney> We looked at Hipchat for a bit. That looked interesting
<cmaloney> but it was more of an IM replacement
<rick_h_> dammit, everyone says to be careful rivets are all in and sure enough I screw up my first one by not having it pushed all the way in
 * rick_h_ puts on dunce cap
<_stink_> we use hipchat at work
<_stink_> it's fine.  but i seriously don't get why any of them are better than any others
<_stink_> or better than irc for that matter
<cmaloney> Hipchat has 1 on 1 video chat
<cmaloney> And hipchat has a decent web interface
<cmaloney> and mobile. :)
<_stink_> hey i can ssh from my phone
<_stink_> that's mobile
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRTqK_8q_dk
<cmaloney> Alan Almond passed away.
<jrwren> who?
<jrwren> oh THAT guy
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> http://getspringseed.com/
<cmaloney> I forgot I installed this until this morning when I realized my apt-get update was failing
<jrwren> cmaloney: what was it?
<cmaloney> It was a note-taking application
<cmaloney> I've since moved on to Tagspaces.
<cmaloney> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/06/springseed-2-0-linux-app-released
<jrwren> screenshot looks pretty
<jrwren> and I see: Springseed 2.0 is written in CoffeeScript, and uses Spine.JS and the Atom Shell framework.
<jrwren> wow.
 * greg-g breathes
<jrwren> good morning greg-g
<jrwren> greg-g: how is your search system?
<jrwren> greg-g: do you hate eleasticsearch yet?
<greg-g> nah, that's fine
<greg-g> other insanity
<greg-g> this week just doesn't stop :)
<jrwren> greg-g: will you publish your post hoc analysis
<greg-g> jrwren: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation/20150615-Elasticsearch
<greg-g> there are only a couple tasks that are private: one with the specific queries that brought it down and... that might be it
<jrwren> greg-g: you are the best1
<jrwren> hey, I want the specific queries! I want to try it against my ES
<greg-g> not yet, not until we at least protect ourselves from them ;)
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> jrwren: if you really want to test things against your ES that might do similar things: try to find known queries that used to bring down all of google search back in the day
<greg-g> that's all I should say :)
<cmaloney> +new +kids +on +the +block +tickets
<cmaloney> *poof*
<greg-g> lol
<jrwren> did someone say NKOTB
<greg-g> I had to search that acronym to get it
 * greg-g is both sad and happy about that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-18
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yo yo
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2015/06/17/30-day-javascript-learning-challenge:-day-17/
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> Woo, now it's a party. :-)
<rick_h_> wheeeee
<cmaloney> party party
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/the-web-is-getting-its-bytecode-webassembly/
<cmaloney> This cannot come soon enough
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/newsycombinator/status/611534051548209153  !!!
<jrwren> oh, i forgot we don't have a url title bot: Google Is Now Listing SourceForge as a Malicious Site i.imgur.com/FAv6VdV.png
<greg-g> is that true?
<jrwren> not really
<jrwren> only for projects with malware in them.
<greg-g> gotcha, but still
<greg-g> malware that SF put in them?
<jrwren> right
<greg-g> wow
<cmaloney> Good
<cmaloney> It's a terrible practice and I hope they reconsider their position.
<PainBank> cmaloney: I know you are hating on Javascript, but if you counter every bad point with one good, it might make your blog a bit nicer.
<cmaloney> PainBank: I'm trying. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<PainBank> cmaloney: I'm impressed you have made it this far. :)
<cmaloney> PainBank: Thank you. I keep wanting to give up. :)
<rick_h_> can you add 'ninja' to your business cards yet?
<PainBank> it was funny, your posts made me google 'client side web programming' to try to understand the other options... was just curious why it was the preferred
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I have to hit Rock Star before I can add Ninja
<rick_h_> doh!
<PainBank> he can only add 'padawan'
<cmaloney> PainBank: I'm looking forward to WebAssembly. I think that's the right path
<cmaloney> Though it'll mean more rogue code that'll need sanitizing.
<PainBank> I'm surprised no one has created a NSAPIA plugin to enable python in the browser yet.
<cmaloney> Probably because it has its own issues.
<rick_h_> you know how much C is required for python to run fast enough?
<PainBank> looks like there are a few attempts
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ++
<PainBank> probably about on par as the V8 javascript engine
<PainBank> lol
<cmaloney> Python is about 30-40% hooks into C libraries
<cmaloney> Funny enough the Pebble SDK uses Cython
<rick_h_> woot, my kayak is officially electrified
<cmaloney> not sure if that's for the build chain or what, but it was nice to have Python as part of the template / build process.
<rick_h_> just need the mount for the display and can glue stuff down
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I thought that was a bad thing
<rick_h_> cmaloney: evidently it's not too bad if you manage not to kill yourself
<cmaloney> so electrified meaning it has an electrical charge to keep bad things away?
<rick_h_> heh, I've got a battery box, wire running through with a fuse to that battery, ending in a depth finder that's running
<cmaloney> Or is this a kayak with an electric motor
<cmaloney> Ah
<rick_h_> no, self paddle, just depth finder/gps running off battery
<cmaloney> Is it sad that I thought you already did that? :)
<cmaloney> Figured you'd have a full web-stack in there already.
<rick_h_> not going into http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MViHRUEYpV0/hqdefault.jpg
<rick_h_> hah, had to do the wiring 3 times to get it where I htink it's clean/water resistent enough
<cmaloney> "Kayak outside, PostgreSQL inside"
<rick_h_> hah, well the gps thing is cool because you can save your path through the water which I think is slick
<PainBank> Interesting ... Brython... javascript parser of python.
<PainBank> seems there are quite a few out there like this in some fashion...
<PainBank> stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
<PainBank> ah, reading up on webassembly, unfortunately, this appears to leave out Safari
<jrwren> PainBank: for the record, someond did: http://www.skulpt.org/
<PainBank> jrwren: thanks, but that looks to be a javascript lib that parses python.
<cmaloney> PainBank: It'll need to get more traction before it becomes a standard
<jrwren> PainBank:  what is the difference?
<cmaloney> That's what the python interpreter is. :)
<cmaloney> (save for the Javascript bit)
<jrwren> skipped the NSAPI part, because it isn't necessary
<cmaloney> Isn't NSAPI deprecated anyway?
<cmaloney> iirc Chrome yanked it
<jrwren> cmaloney: chrome is getting rid of it, yes.
<PainBank> yes, NSAPI is being deprecated
<cmaloney> i thought it was a done deal
<jrwren> I wonder if you could use emscripten on cpython :)
<cmaloney> like "upgrade to this version and see it go poof"
<PainBank> so which do you think is more effiecient?   Python->Skulpt->V8 parsing or Python->Python parser ?
<jrwren> indeed there is: https://github.com/replit/empythoned
<jrwren> PainBank: I've no idea what you are talking about.
<PainBank> cmaloney: it might be, I haven't paid that much attention.
<PainBank> jrwren it's all good.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-19
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morn
<jrwren> I was going to say "which part of it is good?" but then I remember, friday, friday.
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> truck is packed, just needs the kayak on top
<rick_h_> and the fedex man to get here before we leave
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I don't know why you do these last-minute deliveries. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: because the first one I ordered wasn't the right one?
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> hey, I had one week to take kayak from 'non-giant lake friendly' to 'more giant lake friendly' and almost there
<cmaloney> Should've ordered the right one the first time. ;)
<rick_h_> not even that, 5 days
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: it's a universal one! It should have worked!
<cmaloney> not in this universe
<rick_h_> cmaloney: but yea, I didn't find they made one just for my version until after the first one got here
<cmaloney> I hate when that happens
<cmaloney> like finding out there's a mini HDMI that nobody uses and what you need is micro HDMI
<rick_h_> yep
<cmaloney> and you just bought "too many" of the mini HDMI
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> That's OK. I've pretty much cornered the market on mini HDMI.
<cmaloney> muhahahahaha
<jrwren> I have 1 mini hdmi device. mk802. its junk.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Want adapters?
<jrwren> I'd have been happy not knowing there is mini hdmi and micro hdmi :)
<cmaloney> I'll ship them to you. ;)
<jrwren> no thanks.
<jrwren> want an mk802 ?
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> Actually, if it means I can finally find a use for those mini HDMI adapters I might take you up on that.
<jrwren> cmaloney: cool. I'll have to pop over to CHC or MUG sometime for delivery.
<cmaloney> Cool. Thank you!
<brousch> I have an mk802+, but haven't used it in probably a year
<brousch> Also my only mini-hdmi device
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: https://traumadeath.bandcamp.com/album/imperfect-like-a-god
<ColonelPanic001> noted, will listen to this afternoon
<ColonelPanic001> thanks :D
<cmaloney> np
<greg-g> time for some Helmet
<mrgoodcat> Dark Helmet?
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_%28band%29
<mrgoodcat> i figured
<mrgoodcat> was making a spaceballs joke
<mrgoodcat> a bad one apparently
<greg-g> I got it, just fewer people know of the band than space balls :)
<jrwren> I only know Helmet with House of Pain
<jrwren> mc frontalot on sunday in AA if anyone is interested :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-21
<cmaloney> happy fathers day
<wolfger> happy fathers day
<gamerchick02> happy father's day to you both
<cmaloney> wolfger: I think she wished a Happy Father's Day to the few folks who haven't had kids yet. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-20
<cmaloney> Happy father's days to those who are fathers and those who celebrate having fathers.
<cmaloney> https://annextexas.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good weekend?
<rick_h_> not bad, little toasty
<rick_h_> but a weekend in the woods can't be too bad
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-21
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/06/20/open-metalcast-episode-132-thank-you-for-being-a-fan/
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<mrgoodcat> warm
<mrgoodcat> no A/C
<mrgoodcat> its not too bad right now but i'm not excited for the afternoon
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Ugh
<cmaloney> Is this at work?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> the guy is supposed to come look at it this morning
<cmaloney> Not cool
<cmaloney> (literally)
<mrgoodcat> hopefully he can get it working before it gets too warm
<mrgoodcat> its 78 in my office right now
<cmaloney> http://rbsekurity.com/the-journal-of-physical-security.html
<_stink_> huh, interesting
<cmaloney> Yeah, I heard about it on Security Now. Definitely brain-fodder.
<cmaloney> Afternoon / Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> how goes
<cmaloney> ?
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<gamerchick02> i'm back from vacation! work tomorrow. :(
<greg-g> gamerchick02: where'd you go/what'd you do?
<gamerchick02> i went to Indianapolis IN for a conference
<gamerchick02> a fun conference. for my Daughters of the Nile group. i'm glad to be home but work tomorrow is gonna be ugh
 * greg-g had to look that up
 * greg-g isn't in the know about secret groups :P
<greg-g> I was catholic growing up, so I know of the Knights of Columbus, but that's about it :)
<greg-g> 'supreme queen' heh (sorry, not really making fun of it, I know these things have their history and fun/weird names)
<greg-g> http://www.daughtersofthenile.com/
<greg-g> (surprisingly, Wikipedia doesn't have a dedicated article about DotN, only Shriners, the parent/father/sibling/whatever org)
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Sorry to hear re: the vacation ending
<gamerchick02> greg-g that's ok
<gamerchick02> eh, vacations always end and we have to come back to reality.
<gamerchick02> we support the Shriner's Hospitals for Children.
<greg-g> which is awesome, I should say :)
<gamerchick02> if you watch some of the stations like MeTV and whatnot there are commercials for SHC and their giving program
<greg-g> gamerchick02: obvious question everyone probably asks you: do you get to ride in the little cars during parades ever? :P
<gamerchick02> no, and i'm super-mega disappointed in that!!
<greg-g> sorry, I'm in a punchy mood :)
<gamerchick02> considering i'm the QUEEN and should get to ride in a small car if i want to!!
<gamerchick02> (no really, i'm the leader again and the leader is called the Queen)
<greg-g> but not the supreme queen, someday!
<gamerchick02> i... no.
<gamerchick02> i have no aspirations in that direction. i'd love to work with Supreme Temple on something related to the foundation or whatever but not being Supreme Queen
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> i LEFT my PEN in my bag and it's at home!!!
<gamerchick02> (yes it's a thing. i love this pen, it's the one i use with my bullet journal and i use it literally multiple times a day)
<gamerchick02> my coleto hi-tec C, purple
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-22
<cmaloney> Morning all
<Zimdale> Morning cmaloney
<cmaloney> Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<cmaloney> landscapers
<cmaloney> landscrapers
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/drop-what-youre-doing-watch-this-70-minute-gojira-concert-footage-with-new-songs
<mrgoodcat> anybody seen this before?
<mrgoodcat> http://imgur.com/Dz2qxN2
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: is that gnu ls or bsd ls?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: oh wait, yes, I can repro.
<mrgoodcat> you can reproduce that?
<mrgoodcat> how?
<jrwren> have an empty dir ;]
<mrgoodcat> ls $PWD still prints stuff?
<mrgoodcat> ls `pwd` also
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: the set dir was recreated since you entered it.
<mrgoodcat> oh
<jrwren> so your bash cwd is different inode than the new set dir.
<mrgoodcat> that might be it
<jrwren> pushd $PWD and see if you get the same results.
<jrwren> the popd and see if you get same results?
<mrgoodcat> not my machine. will report when the user tries that
<cmaloney> jrwren is right
<jrwren> its a rare thing. Must be a full moon on a leap year.
<cmaloney> strawberry moon
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: thanks
<mrgoodcat> ls -id confirms inode changing
<jrwren> ;]
<mrgoodcat> now he just has to figure out what is changing it
<mrgoodcat> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-23
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Are you at CHC?
<rick_h_> no, flew home from austin today
<rick_h_> zzzzzz
<cmaloney> Ah, that's what I figured
<cmaloney> I skipped today.
<cmaloney> shhhhh
<cmaloney> (drinking bourbon)
<rick_h_> 6:30am boarding makes for sleepy
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> good stuff
<cmaloney> I'll bet
<cmaloney> Morning pt 2
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> How goes?
<cmaloney> Rested?
<rick_h_> ok, still tired
<cmaloney> I'll bet
<rick_h_> but sprint next week so lots of prep/etc so wheeee
<cmaloney> woo woo
<jrwren> rick_h_: London?
<rick_h_> jrwren: hopefully
<rick_h_> either london or madrid, still working it out
<cmaloney> That's kind of a large distance for short notice? :)
<greg-g> last minute transatlantic flights? our travel dept wouldn't allow that :)
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> well trying to keep on plan to go to london, but there's talk of needing folks for an event in spain and I'm trying to stay out of it
<rick_h_> but there's times that last minute is what it is
<rick_h_> and you choke on the ticket sticker shock
<greg-g> yup
<greg-g> especially when travel comes out of your own budget
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> ouch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-24
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<wolfger> slow
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/surface-3-stocks-dwindling-as-microsoft-plans-systems-demise/
<cmaloney> Maybe MS is realizing they make great Linux machines. ;)
<jrwren> isn't that an old machine?
<jrwren> surface 4 is current, right?
<cmaloney> I don't keep up with the line
<cmaloney> according to Google, the Surface Pro 4 is causing a run on the Surface Pro 3 because the Pro 4 is more expensive
<cmaloney> 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD Surface Pro 4 is ~$1200
<jrwren> oh weird.
<jrwren> but pro4 is faster intel CPU IIRC
<cmaloney> http://www.pcworld.com/article/3088098/tablet-pc/microsofts-pricey-surface-book-is-getting-stomped-by-the-ancient-surface-book-3.html
<cmaloney> I'm misreading
<cmaloney> Surface Book is causing run on all older models.
<jrwren> ok, that is a STUPID story.
<cmaloney> PC World or Ars?
<jrwren> its based on spyware ad data.
<jrwren> pcworld.
<cmaloney> PC World is terrible
<cmaloney> I never liked that magazine back when people took magazines seriosuly
<jrwren> yup
<gamerchick02> PCWorld seemed to be a huge advertisement for computer stuff
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-25
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-26
<_stink_> yo
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live! http://youtu.be/6kgyAidgPmE
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-19
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> happy belated father's day to all as well
<shakes808> hope your weekends were enjoyable
<cmaloney> Morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-20
<cmaloney> http://meet.jit.si/OpenMetalCast
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/06/19/open-metalcast-episode-156-screaming-into-the-void/
<jrwren_> i just had a crazy idea for a tool... an program which works like an s3 client or ftp client (without the repl), just list, get, put, but for imap.
<cmaloney> Sort of like a filesystem? :)
<jrwren_> very much so.
<jrwren_> or like object storage.
<jrwren_> or like mail object storage :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Planning on storing your email in the cloud? :)
<notlikethesoup> morning
<jrwren_> well, i run my own imap, but apple devices Notes app support storing the notes in imap. When evernote went to crap i started using notes.
<jrwren_> this would let me edit notes from cmdline
<cmaloney> ah
<jrwren_> i wonder if the right fetchmail or get4mail commands would do this already, but I'm not sure.
<cmaloney> Possibly?
<cmaloney> https://github.com/repk/mfs
<jrwren_> ha! omg!
<jrwren_> no fuse version?
<cmaloney> https://sourceforge.net/projects/imapfs/
<jrwren_> oh, thank you
<cmaloney> Not sure if they'll do anything useful, just used Google, yadda yadda.
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> I _thought_ PyFS might have something that wuold work for this
<cmaloney> (Python Filesystem support)
<cmaloney> but that would be an option as well
<jrwren_> Python Filesystem support?
<jrwren_> PEP519?
<cmaloney> http://docs.pyfilesystem.org/en/latest/ <- not sure if this is exactly what we used
<cmaloney> there was a module that we used to open up zip files and muck with them.
<jrwren_> http://docs.pyfilesystem.org/en/latest/reference/zipfs.html I see
<cmaloney> http://www.web2py.com/books/default/chapter/29/06/the-database-abstraction-layer
<jrwren_> no imap though
<cmaloney> sqlite3, pymysql, pg8000, and imaplib ship with web2py. Support of MongoDB is experimental. The IMAP option allows to use DAL to access IMAP.
<jrwren_> oooh!
<cmaloney> so you _might_ be able to layer this so you can use Python to access imap via PyFS
<cmaloney> it's just abstractions all the way down
<cmaloney> God, MSSQL
<cmaloney> no love lost.
<cmaloney> If I never see another Sybase-based database (or MS-sold database for that matter) it will be too soon.
<shakes808> http://imgur.com/gallery/KoBFY
<cmaloney> shakes808: wow
<shakes808> cmaloney: right?! I always wanted a delorean!  and that is just awesome!!!
<shakes808> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9-ltPsbw9g
<greg-g> Some people are geniouses: dude on a bike in 90ish degree heat (it'll be 110 on Thursday) with a water bottle and intead of a cap, one of those used 20 water ballon filler things
<greg-g> great for spraying over your head
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> zero cost spritzer :)
<mrgoodcat> ha i wish i thought of that
<gamerchick02> crisis averted! background check was WRONG for my co-op years. my mom kept the W2s. screw this background check company that gets things wrong
<gamerchick02> also: https://www.yahoo.com/tech/nasa-wants-probe-uranus-search-gas-232157525.html
<greg-g> depends on how much milk I've had lately
<gamerchick02> hee!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-21
<brousch> greg-g: 100? I'm currently in Tempe, AZ for a work conference. 117 today!
<cmaloney> brousch: WTF?
<cmaloney> Also: morning
<brousch> Very hot here.
<rick_h> yea, hot and pita
<rick_h> 94 here in london, I thought it was supposed to be cool and rainy
<jrwren_> brousch: I saw the news that planes can't take off in phoenix because its 120+ the air gets too thin
<brousch> Apparently some models of jet cannot operate above 118
<cmaloney> rick_h: We have the windows open and it's quite nice here. :)
<rick_h> ugh, I had hoped it'd be cooler here since it was in the upper 80s when I left
<jrwren_> its 62 in my house right now.
<rick_h> yea, the plane thing is kind of insane. Everyone will have to evacuate the "too hot to live here" area at night
<mrgoodcat> andrej karpathy is a lot younger than i'd assumed
<mrgoodcat> also he's just gotten a job at tesla apparently
<jrwren_> isn't it often 120 in the middle east? How do those airports function?
<rick_h> Bigger planes (which can usually operate up to 126-127F/ 53C) have not been affected by the heat in Arizona, but such issues arising from the scorching conditions can help to explain why many countries in the Middle East, or some high-altitude airports in South America, tend to schedule long haul flights for the evening or night, when it is cooler.
 * rick_h quotes: 
<cmaloney> not many people fly in and out of the middle east?
<cmaloney> or they use different planes
<rick_h> cmaloney: nope, many do because almost everyone coming from china/australia/etc go through that way and connect there
<jrwren_> i assume more people flight in and out of middle east because of all the wealth. Dubai has 2 major airports, which is a lot for such a tiny nation.
<jrwren_> and everyone is saudi arabia are gazillionairs and they all fly all over the world globtrotting.
<jrwren_> :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, that
<rick_h> I know almost all our folks from out east come via dubai
<rick_h> to EU and eastern US
<jrwren_> lol @ dubai has 2 major... I mean UAE.
<jrwren_> Dubai and Abudbi
<jrwren_> Abu Dhabi
<jrwren_> sheesh :)
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> Tempe is lovely this time of year, if your idea of lovely is living in an oven
<shakes808> http://php.net/manual/en/images/0baa1b9fae6aec55bbb73037f3016001-xkcd-goto.png
<mrgoodcat> ha I love that they put that in the php manual
<mrgoodcat> I just looked up the goto page to see what context they had it in
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-22
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney> Today's SPAM winner: Does new leaked video show Hitler's deathbed confession?
<cmaloney> rick_h: How's the sprinting?
<rick_h> cmaloney: at the airport heading home
<cmaloney> rick_h: so soon? :)
<rick_h> Yea, have to get to cedar point by tomorrow night
<cmaloney> Holy shit
<cmaloney> You're going to be toast
<rick_h> Pretty much
<rick_h> But fatherly duty calls
<cmaloney> ayep
<cmaloney> Figured that was the main reason
<rick_h> Yea will be fun to see if I can successfully get the boy on a roller coaster or not.
<cmaloney> I wouldn't push it too hard. It took me a long while to get onto roller coasters
<cmaloney> Anyone want to present in August? :)
<jrwren_> it is my birthday. I want presents then.
<cmaloney> jrwren_: I want presents too
<cmaloney> presents of presentations
<cmaloney> and stuf
<cmaloney> f
<mrgoodcat> what sort of presentations?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Anything that would be of interest for a group of OSS-loving folks
<cmaloney> UNIX / Linux / Development
<cmaloney> the first presentation is on Unicode
<mrgoodcat> for LoCo? or MUG?
<mrgoodcat> or something else?
<cmaloney> MUG
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-23
<shakes808> http://www.lambdanative.org/
<cmaloney> shakes808: whut?
<shakes808> haha, a guy from work just linked that.
<shakes808> interesting.  scheme gaining steam?
<shakes808> haha
<cmaloney> i think it's partly a backlash to JavaScript
<cmaloney> "I'm I'm going to use a shitty "functional" language I might as well use a good one.
<shakes808> HAHA
<cmaloney> s/I'm/If/
<notlikethesoup> hello
<shakes808> http://www.emagine-entertainment.com/luxury-bowling/penny-bowling/
<shakes808> could be a cool cheap thing to do with your kids, as long as they don't score 300s haha
<cmaloney> Shit, if my kid is throwing 300s I'm paying the $3
<shakes808> HAHA!  If they are, they would be throwing pro HAHA
<cmaloney> Yeah, $3 is a down-payment on a new lifestyle for papa
<shakes808> HAHA!   Need to get my kid bowling more! :)
<shakes808> https://gfycat.com/PotableClearcutHeterodontosaurus
<cmaloney> https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/gorgeousaltruisticass
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaSoTE9wfmo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-24
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-25
<greg-g> g'morning (for you east coasters)
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Good morning (when you wake up. :))
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-18
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: beep
<brousch> I have mycroft running in virtualbox on my laptop, and in the picroft. They are talking to each other. It is maddening
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Hey Mycroft...
<cmaloney> burDEEP
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I understand
<cmaloney> Could you rephrase that?
<cmaloney> I don't understand, but I'm learning every day
<cmaloney> There is no Dana, Only Zuul
<cmaloney> It sounds like the AI version of who's on first
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> https://www.pythonjobs.com/jobs/5165499-civil-engineer-environmental-engineer-pipe-inspection-at-dlz-corporation
<cmaloney> This is interesting as the computer aspects are under the "preferred" category.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-19
<rick_h_> yay https://messages.android.com/ except...not available on my app yet. /me waits for rollout
<cmaloney> Oh that's nice
<cmaloney> Yeah, my device doesn't support it yet
<cmaloney> This is awesome
<cmaloney> https://video.blender.org/
<cmaloney> so, Youtube took down Blender Foundation's videos because the Blender Foundation didn't monetize them with ads
<cmaloney> Youtube wanted Blender to monetize their videos
<cmaloney> Blender Foundation responded by setting up a Peertube instance
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> nice
<rick_h_> that seems kind of odd...that youtube would pressure to monitize. I wonder what the threshholds are for that
<cmaloney> Not sure, but wondering if hosting the videos cost enough for an algorithm to notice
<rick_h_> I guess
<rick_h_> sooooo much nicer out today
<rick_h_> thank goodness
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I need to do the lawn
<cmaloney> Also: am sitting at the dealership yet again
<rick_h_> we had to setup the sprinklers. The heat will killing off the lawn
<rick_h_> :(
<cmaloney> car decided to stall while I was driving it
<rick_h_> on the dealership stuff
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> oops, bad idea car
<cmaloney> Well, I wouldn't have minded had it not made it rather difficult to drive it while it slowed down
<cmaloney> and had it given me a warning
<rick_h_> that does seem to be less than ideal :P
<cmaloney> It's the little things
<cmaloney> Whee
<cmaloney> Back from the dealership
<DrDaemonEye> woo!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hopefully not too bad
<cmaloney> Crank Sensor, $450 out the door with two hours of labor
<cmaloney> not great, but ...
<greg-g> geez
 * rick_h_ has visions of cmaloney out front of the care turning a giant crank arm
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-20
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> always crazy rush trying to get the puppy outside for her morning
<rick_h_> feed her and it turns her up to 11
<rick_h_> but, working from the back deck on a day like today works for me
<rick_h_> and they get out here in a bit to start tiling the bathroom so woot woot
<cmaloney> nice!
<cmaloney> Isn't it rainy over there?
<cmaloney> or is that the point? :)
<cmaloney> Down here it's a bit rainy
<rick_h_> no rain atm
<widox> morning
<DrDaemonEye> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: The GRPUG talk went well. Thanks for sending the AIY kit
<cmaloney> brousch: Awesome! I was going to ask you about that
<cmaloney> Thank waldo323 as well because he picked up the kit
<brousch> Hey waldo323 , thanks for picking up the AIY kit for me. I had it working for my talk
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> brousch: Did someone record the talk?
<cmaloney> I know you were on the Mycroft forums asking about skills for the presentation
<brousch> No, we don't do that fancy stuff
<cmaloney> Bah
<cmaloney> So we'll have to drag your butt over here to give that talk
<cmaloney> I see how this works.
<cmaloney> The lure of free pizza compels you
<brousch> I did a simple mycroft dialog for some parts, and we watched the CEO video and talked about the skill used there
<waldo323> brousch, Excellent!
<waldo323> glad it worked out
<waldo323> ...i still have to put mine together
<cmaloney> JoDee makes fun of my Mycroft
<brousch> I did it with my son. It took maybe 30 minutes
<cmaloney> since it can be a little daft in what it can do
<brousch> Polish up those skills ;)
<cmaloney> She doesn't see the utility of it
<cmaloney> I want to get one for the Squeezebox
<waldo323> I have a friend that bought a pi-hole kit and was having a few issues so I think I want to get one of my pis or a beaglebone setup with pihole
<cmaloney> and the X10 lights
<waldo323> https://www.adafruit.com/product/268
<waldo323> arg discontinued
<waldo323> oh the replacement is better for a lower price... https://www.adafruit.com/product/2935
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm going to put it in the living room and see how it gets used
<brousch> I love that you can ssh in and hack up a new skill
<cmaloney> same
<waldo323> are there servers/services you can serve from home for it to communicate with rather than the server it goes out on the net to work with?
<cmaloney> not yet
<waldo323> ah i'll be happy when i can use if off the internet to do iot and home automation
<jrwren> +1 minimal internet connected home devices for me.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-21
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<Scary_Guy> mornin'
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> mama
<DrDaemonEye> morning everyone
<cmaloney> Howdy
<DrDaemonEye> how's everyone doing?
<cmaloney> So far so good
<cmaloney> yourself?
<DrDaemonEye> not too bad.
<DrDaemonEye> Just dealing with VMs
<cmaloney> Do you suffer from VMs?
<DrDaemonEye> yes I do.
<DrDaemonEye> Mostly with libvirt
<rick_h_> snowing in june https://photos.app.goo.gl/j34CKDxw2a5wzw7s6
<greg-g> :)
<DrDaemonEye> greg-g: needs more snow!
<DrDaemonEye> rick_h_: ^
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> hah
<rick_h_> I can't help but wonder how much of this is from neighbors who don't use weed control on their lawns...
 * rick_h_ tries to think positively
<cmaloney> It's all from my lawn
 * cmaloney doesnt believe in pesticides for weeds
<cmaloney> but I do try to keep the lawn mowed so they don't get that high
<cmaloney> Those look like cottonwood though
<cmaloney> which is an asshole tree
<greg-g> I love our neighbors lawn of dandilions
<greg-g> 's
<rick_h_> they can be cool https://photos.app.goo.gl/EFibV1hSrcBfMpYa6
<rick_h_> hmmm, hadn't thought of cottenwood tree
<rick_h_> it's been like this for days, getting stuck all over the place
<greg-g> some days, I really wish I had a local proxy for my browser that cached all page hits (maybe have a file size limit to not cache big videos) that I could easily search against "find the word "lawn" in pages I read in the last month" so I can get that article I'm thinking about right now. I have no clue where it was or what network shared it.
<brousch> rick_h_: Interesting, our cottonwood blizzards were 1-3 weeks ago
<Scary_Guy> wild hogweed needs to die though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-22
<shakes808> Evening all!
<shakes808> cmaloney: i know you have been working a lot with Python lately and had a question.   I want to create unit tests using unittest but can't find or figure out how to call my class for the functions.  Any resources that you can shoot my way?
<waldo323> good morning?
<Scary_Guy> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<DrDaemonEye> morning
<rick_h_> it said it was going to rain all day last night but it's awesome out atm
<rick_h_> working outside ftw
<rick_h_> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qf3phBEFfhoGAGreA
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke.
<cmaloney> Thinking of working outside as well
<cmaloney> Are you back on an apple fulltime now?
<cmaloney> or is that just for work?
<cmaloney> I see you're communicating temperature with the rest of the world. ;)
<rick_h_> hah yea, we were discussing temps outside around the world
<rick_h_> the guy in dubia won with 48C
<rick_h_> dubai
<rick_h_> I'm on the fruit full time atm
<rick_h_> gave my thinkpad to my wife when her laptop bit the bucket and haven't replaced it yet
<rick_h_> This gets the job done atm and all the moneys going into the house currently
<rick_h_> another couple of week and we'll have the new bathroom: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VJyEJuG7B3zJdpnf7
<cmaloney> Yeah, you couldn't pay me to live in Dubai
<cmaloney> not even for a fly-over
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh, nice!
<rick_h_> hah, yea it's a bit nuts
<greg-g> Dubai: not even once :)
<cmaloney> Totes
<cmaloney> Bad politics backed with weather with bad attitude? No thanks
<cmaloney> I don't need to be in a place where they could literally forge steel on the sidewalks
<cmaloney> https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2018/06/if-you-could-edit-tweets/
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/invite/4bZPoAKa
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-24
<doubledev> cmaloney: Thank you for the information the other day
<cmaloney> yw
<doubledev> cmaloney: maybe you can assist me with my file structure and the way I am calling things?   Just like when using unittest, this doesn't like my import of the class
<doubledev> https://pastebin.com/YFNzYyUV
<havenstance> everyone afk tonight?
<cmaloney> doubledev: https://docs.pytest.org/en/latest/customize.html
<cmaloney> You need to create one of these files to figure out where the root path is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-15
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZN5n6C9gM4 pretty good list of criticisms if you ask me.  Long though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-16
<greg-g> anyone here know nicholas skaggs? former Canonical person now at WMF
<jrwren> I'm sure rick_h knows him. I barely remember him from when I worked there.
<greg-g> he's our new Eng Manager for the Cloud Services team
<rick_h> greg-g:  yes, Nicholas is great and I wish he would come back
<rick_h> tell him I said hello!
<greg-g> hah!
<jrwren> what was he doing at canonical 4-6yrs ago?
<rick_h> he came over to my side running the juju qa team
<rick_h> and then when they folded that into engineering because a manager of that for a bit
<rick_h> before that he was on desktop-y stuff?
<rick_h> it was another "side" I didn't run across much
<cmaloney> I recognize the name
<rick_h> yea, I think he was on the community team that jorge was on at one point
<rick_h> he wasn't buried in the org for sure
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> Speaking of Jorge, I'm listening to Robert Trujillo in INfectious Grooves.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRdRqlZiTD8
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob3buKk6ALc
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: sorry if this isn't the right plact to ask things like this but i'm on a w3c working group who's charter is in danger of not being repassed. any chance i could get you to reach out to the wmf advisory committe rep to look over the distributed tracing wg charter and possibly vote?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: passed it along :)
<mrgoodcat> cool thank you :)
<mrgoodcat> should probably have included in the original message but here's a direct link if it makes it easier https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/dt-2020/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-17
<jrwren> haha... SRE - simple restart everything
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: just got word WMF voted thanks for your help :)
<jrwren> https://ubuntu.com/blog/the-ubuntu-appliance-portfolio
<jrwren> "self updating" i wonder if I have any control over that.
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: no worries, I literally didn't push just said "hey, I got pinged, please take a look"
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: meaning: it wasn't a forced vote, you earned it :)
<mrgoodcat> cool :)
<mrgoodcat> most AC members I deal with either don't know they're on the committee or forgot their password or something similar so this is like the best experience i've had haha
<greg-g> Evan Prodromou is good people (our AC rep)
<greg-g> you may know him from a bunch of things: wikitravel, identi.ca/status.net, some weird AI startup, and now Wikimedia :)
<mrgoodcat> podromou is a name i recognize but i'm not sure from what
<cmaloney> Oh snap
<mrgoodcat> its fairly recognizable though
<cmaloney> Evan is really good people
<cmaloney> Evan is on my list of "favorite beverage on me"
<greg-g> he's a PM for us on our Core Platform team
<cmaloney> Oh, nice
<rick_h> jrwren:  pay for a snap proxy store and sure
<rick_h> (control over auto updating)
<jrwren> ha! yeah.
<cmaloney> Sorry, your fridge has a borked bind and cannot make ice
<rick_h> well an the other side is "your fridge has a giant security whole folks can use to turn it off on you remotely and it's updated now"
<rick_h> works both ways
<rick_h> folks want routers maintained and security automatically but are afraid of those auto updates as well :/
<cmaloney> rick_h: I just want the good things, not the bad things
<cmaloney> make it work, dammit. ;)
 * rick_h waves a magic wand
<jrwren> lol, no, not at all.
<jrwren> its very simple, never smart antyhing. my fridge, toaster, oven, microwave will never be networked.
<greg-g> SAME
<greg-g> unless I'm running joey hess' haskel driven solar powered freezer
<greg-g> https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/my_haskell_controlled_offgrid_fridge/
<mrgoodcat> not sure i understand the reason for an internet connected fridge
<jrwren> it can place your amazon fresh order for you when you are out of sour cream.
<jrwren> why is there an alexa microwave.
<jrwren> http://quotegeek.com/quotes-from-movies/jurassic-park/397/
<jrwren> oh sorry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY-pUxKQMUE
<jrwren> links, lynx, or elinks?
<cmaloney> w3m
<cmaloney> though it depends on the use-case
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-19
<jrwren> whoa... i had missed this. https://speed.cloudflare.com
<greg-g> neat
<jrwren> huh... samba moving to GNUTLS is interesting: https://download.samba.org/pub/samba/rc/samba-4.12.0rc3.WHATSNEW.txt
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> Though I'm curious how well that will work.
<jrwren> whoa... and "New Spotlight backend for Elasticsearch"
<jrwren> samba 4.12 is gonna be crazy.
<jrwren> crazy awesome.
<jrwren> oh sheesh. it is out: https://www.samba.org/samba/history/samba-4.12.0.html
<jrwren> hopefully it is in groovy and I'll play with it come Sept.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-21
<cmaloney> morning
 * greg-g yawns
