#edubuntu 2005-09-05
<magnon> anyone around? :)
<ogra> yup...
<magnon> I'm working for a company that runs an ubuntu/ltsp network in some schools, but we havent gotten off of our asses to get into edubuntu
<magnon> so, I'll be testing it as good as I can up to release so that we might use it already in october, I just wondered if someone could quickly tell me what work has been done the past months
<ogra> we have developed a new fully encrypted version of ltsp that works with the ubuntu packages ...
<ogra> the CD will install a single ltsp server by default, you only have to give a handfull of answers in the installer...
<magnon> sweet, that eases some need to be careful with the data
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/ has some initial screenshots
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> its a simple ssh tunnel... 
<ogra> additionally it will be fully upgradeable over the releases, like ubuntu itself... 
<magnon> I see you got Knut trolling the mailing list already :
<magnon> :D
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yup
<magnon> had some arguments with him a few years ago on skolelinux vs. my idea, glad to see edubuntu coming, fits very well with that
<magnon> do you know where I can find a package listing of the additions in edubuntu vs. main?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<ogra> vs. http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/breezy/desktop
<magnon> awesome :)
<ogra> additionally: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<ogra> which has no comparison candidate on the ubuntu side...
<magnon> no huge diffs on the server side
<ogra> only the basics... 
<magnon> great
<magnon> the closer it is to an escalation agreement, the better :)
<ogra> i tried to get mediawiki in for wikipedia support out of the box, but the security team complained
<ogra> so i'll add moin to have a wiki ... thats going on the CD tomorrow...
<magnon> offline wikipedia? (read about that somewhere)
<Burgundavia> ouch
<ogra> yup, thats what i wanted..
<ogra> you could order a DVD with the data and just drop it into the server...
<magnon> I guess that's a good thing for anyone with english as their first language and also a bad net connection ;)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but you can also get other languages afaik
<magnon> yeah, none covers a million articles though :)
<magnon> especially norwegian (30k)
<ogra> oh...
<magnon> kids learn english fast enough anyway :)
<ogra> heh, true
<magnon> anyway, thanks for a quick update
<magnon> more importantly, what work is getting done for release?
<magnon> I'll be setting up a "test lab" (2-3 machines) tomorrow and start looking at it, test the basics etc., and hopefully get myself involved in the process itself asap :)
<magnon> if I manage to make a difference before release, it'd be awesome
<magnon> brb
<ogra> the CD is in a bad state currently, i'd suggest to wait till the weekend... 
<magnon> what if I download an older working one and dist-upgrade?
<ogra> the current X server autodetection doesnt work, thats a showstopper for ltsp currently...
<magnon> oo.
<ogra> it doesnt matter if you take a old or new CD here, since ltsp still gets built from the net...
<ogra> so it always has the newst X :/
<magnon> aha
<ogra> newest
<magnon> well I suppose I could wait a few days :)
<ogra> this will change to CD soon... 
<magnon> sounds good
<magnon> we're settling a deal with a net provider these days, so for me, stuff of the net doesnt hurt :P
<magnon> by the way, you're hired by canonical, right?
<ogra> yup
<magnon> do you know if you guys have any plans to expand the escalation support to packages that will be in edubuntu?
<ogra> all apps we ship on the CD have to be in the supported set, its a requirement :)
<magnon> oh, good
<magnon> we wanted to put all our machines under an escalation agreement with you guys (we're small and fragile :), and I wouldnt want edubuntu to hurt that
<ogra> the CD would have been done in a week ro two if this wasnt the case ;) 
<magnon> hehe
<magnon> what do you do about the rest? make an eduniverse or something?
<ogra> most of my work with edubuntu development was bureaucracy :)
<ogra> edubuntu is 100% ubuntu, so you can use universe as in ubuntu
<magnon> (what I mean is, it can of course be in the normal universe, but not all people know that the program they are looking for is just an apt-get install longandtediouspackagename away)
<magnon> what I am REALLY trying to say, is, have you thought of a metapackage with edu-friendly non-main extras :P
<magnon> 2am >_<
<ogra> edubuntu has the same settings in synptic unbuntu has... its two mouseclicks to enable universe ;)
<ogra> here too ;)
<Burgundavia> and g-a-i even tells you what you need to add and how to do it
<magnon> the package name is still long and tedious :P
<ogra> did you try gnome-app-install ? its the next generation package manager in ubuntu
<magnon> trust me, some of our customers wouldnt be able to find a program in synaptic even if I held their hand
<ogra> it reflects the menu... you just have to set/remove checkmarks next to the apps ...
<magnon> ah
<magnon> oh! right!
<magnon> one thing
<ogra> its very easy... but a bit restricted to gui apps indeec
<magnon> yeah, that doesnt matter
<magnon> what isnt a gui app is uninteresting to them
<ogra> heh
<magnon> anyway, is there any work done on separating user types etc.?
<magnon> students and teachers might need different permissions and programs, students of different age too - just wondered if someone thought up a sexy solution to that
<ogra> i played with sabayon, but it doesnt look ready for this release... we have different user groups though (admin, desktop, defaul)
<magnon> the user template stuff (which was originally intended for breezy I believe) looked promising, but I havent looked more into it
<ogra> it is in, but the menu entrys for the apps need to be tagged for it... i'm not sure if this will happen, its extremely time intensive
<magnon> as long as the possibility to tag them is there, I'm happy
<ogra> but if it gets in (not my area) non admin users wont see any non admin stuff by default
<ogra> bu i'm aiming for sabayon, really... 
<magnon> ok
<ogra> you can make user profiles in a xnest window via drag and drop
<ogra> its extremely easy to use :)
<magnon> yeah
<magnon> I tried it out when seth made his first post about it
<magnon> somewhat buggy but :)
<magnon> I dont think I will see teachers doing that stuff though
<ogra> sadly the xnest stuff doesnt work with our ltsp, i havent found the reason yet, but i think it starts it as :1 locally... that doesnt work through the tunnel
<magnon> if they could do it all, I'd be unemployed :)
<ogra> nope, but school admins
<magnon> currently, with our customers (theyre not very large schools though)
<magnon> we get there a day a week, or half a day, depending on how much they need us, and we have a local geek-teacher who we train a bit
<magnon> thus, they can work it out on a daily basis so I dont have to be on the phone with people not managing to open a .doc, the school doesnt have to pay anyone full time to be an it admin, just a few hours more (4-6 hours a week is good) to that teacher
<magnon> and, they have us on a weekly basis + a support agreement
<magnon> which is again, on the software side, soon to be backed up by you *points* ;)
<ogra> :)
<magnon> unfortunately we might have to up our prices to the end user a bit after new years, we've been a bit too nice on the schools
<magnon> but they mostly agree that if they pay a bit more and we can provide stronger equipment and support, they'll be better off when an  unexpected situation comes
<ogra> you will still be cheaper than a MS consultancy company :)
<magnon> true, hehe
<magnon> its very rewarding to see linux usage rise and be usable in schools, but I need scrambled eggs for breakfast to keep my head up
<magnon> and a bike
<magnon> do you have any edubuntu-esque things I can start looking at by the way?
<magnon> I'll be able to use some 10-15 hours a week (more, but not as "work" ;) on testing and developing edubuntu, so if there's any work needed to be done, yell
<magnon> if you don't know atm, I'll stay in the channel later so you can yell at any time :P
<ogra> great...
<ogra> i'm about to fall asleep over my keyboard... i'll come back to you, be sure ;)
<magnon> ha
<magnon> go meditate ;)
<magnon> 15 minutes of clearing the head feels like several hours of sleep to me
<cyphase> hey everyone
* mode/#edubuntu [-s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 2 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<ogra> JaneW, pong
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i spoked to 140 students!!!!
* jsgotangco will never underestimate the power of GAIM
<JaneW> does anyone know where I can get some standard (and official sounding) text for our artwork section for people to acknowledge that they are giving us their work to include in the edubuntu release?
<JaneW> cool well done jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> i didnt even break a sweat
<jsgotangco> hah
<JaneW> good for you
<JaneW> (is it cold today?) ;)
<jsgotangco> well
<jsgotangco> i think i did good
<jsgotangco> they gave me a bottle of wine
<jsgotangco> (dunno why)
<jsgotangco> but since it was a very newbie audience, i didnt really go into details of Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> i basically talked about free software and demo'ed the OpenCD
<jsgotangco> all-in-one IMs seem to be incredibly popular among teens
<JaneW> jsgotangco: well if you want us to give you a bottle of wine you have to PUNT ubuntu ;)
<jsgotangco> well the OpenCD is a canonical sponsored product ATM
<JaneW> ogra: does what Mithrandir is saying in #c makes sense to you?
<magnon> jsgotangco: girls <3 gaim
<magnon> that's just how it works
<magnon> every place I've worked on where I demoed anything, I always included gaim, and girls love it
<magnon> had to break down and say there was a windows version unfortunately
<ogra> JaneW, nope
<ogra> JaneW, but he hasnt undestood yet...
<JaneW> ogra: I thought not - but didn;t want to discount the possibility that maybe it was just me not understanding...
<ogra> he thinks about themes
<jsgotangco> #c?
<jsgotangco> ah canonical
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> JaneW: pong
<highvoltage> JaneW: ping
<highvoltage> sorry, screen giving me problems :)
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<JaneW> as creative director... I need help with licensing for our user contributed artwork
<JaneW> hiw much do you know about licensing?
<JaneW> I have found: http://artlibre.org/licence.php/lalgb.html , which looks like it may be something we can use ...?
<ogra> JaneW, lets use a widely known license like the GFDL or GPL rather
<JaneW> highvoltage: we need  to get some standard (and official sounding) text for us to use in our edubuntu artwork section, to allow people to acknowledge that they are giving us their work to include in the edubuntu release?
<highvoltage> JaneW: I think either Gnu free doc license, or creative commons sharealike by attribution
<JaneW> highvoltage: I want to oublish this on the wiki and ask them to cut and paste it into the mail they send their work to me in, as explicit agreement
<highvoltage> JaneW: i agree with ogra, gfdl is good (first choice in my opinion), and the cc-sa-by is close second.
<JaneW> highvoltage: I just don;t know enough about this...
<highvoltage> ogra: how do you feel about the cc license?
<highvoltage> ogra: it's basically the same
<highvoltage> JaneW: just a minute...
<ogra> its ok too, but the docteam had objections for some flavors 
<JaneW> ok       Copyright (c)  YEAR  YOUR NAME.
<JaneW>       Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
<JaneW>       under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
<JaneW>       or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
<JaneW>       with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
<JaneW> 	 Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU
<ogra> so i'd go with the gfdl... its safe 
<JaneW>       Free Documentation License".
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> cool, ok, and what about 'and I declare this is my own work' or some such?
<highvoltage> JaneW: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
<highvoltage> that's the cc license, it's in human readable and in legalese.
<JaneW> so which shall we use?
* ogra votes for gfdl
* highvoltage votes for gfdl too
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> mixing non-gfdl with gfdl is often difficult, which is why gfdl gets first choice.
<highvoltage> JaneW: read both licenses, it's generally a good idea :)
<JaneW> any more votes?
<JaneW> (please don;t let this be like the blue fish voting!!)
<ogra> JaneW, your boilerplate needs a hint where you can get the license
<ogra>  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU
<ogra>  Free Documentation License" isnt enough
* highvoltage sticks to gfdl
<JaneW> ok gdfl it is... I don't have time to study through them now (but I must sometime soon)
<JaneW> ogra: I'll make a link to it...
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> JaneW: when you get to know me better, you'll realise that i tend to go for the GNU stuff. When in doubt, choose GNU!
<JaneW> ok
<highvoltage> JaneW: it's perhaps better to put the license on the wiki
<highvoltage> JaneW: like on socks: http://socks.tsf.org.za
<highvoltage> JaneW: and then people who upload things, acknowledge that they do so according to the license, and that they're not uploading documents that have an incompatible license.
<ogra> i'm very astonished there is no license already... thats not common
<highvoltage> i wouldn't mind putting it on there tonight.
<highvoltage> my internet at home is working again.
<highvoltage> also gnu fdl, i assume?
<magnon> morning ogra
<magnon> *stretch*
<ogra> hi
<jsgotangco> oh my god this is ugly
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that guide is 156 pages oh my
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yup!
<JaneW> highvoltage/ogra: please see http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork
<jsgotangco> JaneW: kill me instead
* JaneW takes out whip...
<jsgotangco> JaneW: silbs is creeping over the docteam lately...so things have been hectic on my side not to mention my speaking engagements...
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am just concerned that GFDL seems to be specifically for TEXT
<jsgotangco> and the docteam at the moment is like 3 people...
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm not sure how nice that will work though.
<jsgotangco> its getting much worse than actually having a job...
<ogra> JaneW, lest make sure elmo is fine with the licensing paragraph...
<highvoltage> ogra: does it qualify as a legal agreement if it's not digitally signed?
<ogra> i hope so... :)
<JaneW> ogra: agreed, but I am not being funny when I say that elmo completely ignores me...
<ogra> else we'll never have any artwork... i doubt many users have gpg sigs
<highvoltage> JaneW: i got some response out of him last week :P
<JaneW> ogra: never responds to e-mails or irc pings or anything
<ogra> hmm
<jsgotangco> you can try fighting him
* jsgotangco hide
<highvoltage> JaneW: the time of day seems to be important. 11PM on a tuesday evening is good, it seems :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I fear his wrath
<jsgotangco> hmm
<highvoltage> hehe, from ubuntu-motu:
<highvoltage> 14:50 < ivoks> i hope elmo isn't ignoring me
<highvoltage> 14:50 < ivoks> i just never get any feedback from him :/
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i fear the cookbook will have to wait i have too much in my hands at the moment
<JaneW> lol
<jsgotangco> JaneW: Im about to start clean up on the documents later for preview release
* JaneW feels less tragetted now
<JaneW> tragetted even
<JaneW> TARGETTED
<JaneW> whatever :P
<jsgotangco> oh we asked elmo before on a domain name redirect and it probably took a month
<highvoltage> then i better ask him today for the edubuntu site / wiki redirect stuff.
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> highvoltage: and access to immutable pages on the wiki...
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> good luck
<jsgotangco> even henrick has no admin access on the ubuntu wiki
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you think about that gnome folder icon JaneW sent? i think it's an improvement.
<ogra> jup...
<JaneW> highvoltage: what's that bottom banner called on the socks page, with the license info in it?
<JaneW> and
<JaneW> ogra: wtf is a boilerplate?
<highvoltage> JaneW: the creative commons give that to you. the boilerplate is that page that explains the license in human readable form, i think.
<ogra> a template
<highvoltage> ogra: replacing that icon in the gartoon gnome icon package, can I do it?
<JaneW> ok, I am a liitle confussed, I don;t see that GFDL gives you any image licensing
<highvoltage> it covers the images too.
<JaneW> ogra: and would we need permission from that guy to use the icon?
<ogra> highvoltage, sure... look at uuencode... you  have to put it uuencoded in the debian dir and uudecode and copy it at build time
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<highvoltage>  ok. i'll do that. might have to ask you more about that tonight.
<JaneW> SIGH
<ogra> highvoltage, no problem
<highvoltage> ogra++
<highvoltage> JaneW: what now? :)
<JaneW> silbs hey all - if anyone feels like voting, Ubuntu has been nominated as Best OS at www.linuxawards.co.uk
<highvoltage> well, technically speaking, there's no such thing as a "Best OS".
<ogra> hmm, it doesnt offer the other nominations... i have no idea about uk ISPs
<highvoltage> there is a right tool for the job though, which is Ubuntu in most cases, imho. :)
<JaneW> ogra: I just put ubuntu for everything
<JaneW> except corporate - there I put Canonical
<JaneW> not that I am biased or anything ;)
* highvoltage would second that
* jsgotangco abstains
* highvoltage changes vote back to Quanta+, it is nicer than bluefish
<ogra> err, ubuntu as ISP ?
<jsgotangco> you can just put MSN heh
<highvoltage> i would just enter "private" there.
<ogra> i was thinking about german telecom *g*
<ogra> i think they offer ISP hosting in uk :)
<jsgotangco> Bt?
* jsgotangco dies after seeing the tuxlab howto
* JaneW slaps highvoltage with a wet (blue) fish
<JaneW> highvoltage: as penance can you sort out this licinsing issue we have? 
<JaneW> I will then solicit ppl for more artwork, which we can then use legally
<JaneW> we need to sort this out asap
<jsgotangco> hmm AndyFitz's usplash are nice
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: why do you die after seeing the howto?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i'm just too loaded on docteam work atm and haven't been updating our cookbook
<ogra> jsgotangco, i like the image we use currently much more...
<ogra> even if its a bit blurry and dithered...
<ogra> but the ubuntu in the dark with the mirroring looks quite cool i think
<jsgotangco> the usplash should mix well with gdm though
<jsgotangco> or else it wont look consistent
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> I think I found our license... http://creativecommons.org/license/cc-gpl?lang=en
<ogra> JaneW, looks good
<JaneW> :))))
<highvoltage> gpl++
<highvoltage> some people feel it's strange to license documentation under gpl, but i think it works well.
<highvoltage> although, some people feel that if you have gpl'd bitmaps, that you should also supply the vector (or source) versions.
<highvoltage> which can be tough.
<highvoltage> ok, bye.
<highvoltage> JaneW: SYN
<magnon> highvoltage: your name is disturbing
<magnon> most of my day has been on the phone with a school customer of ours who, without warning us, put an unshielded cat-5 hanging from a 440V power line between two buildings
<highvoltage> wow.
<highvoltage> magnon: well, i do tend to shock people, now and again :)
<magnon> :D
<magnon> My company is looking for people to administer our cluebat, want to apply? :P
<ogra> JaneW, *SIGH*
<ogra> this license stuff is tiring
<jsgotangco> hmmm?
<jsgotangco> artwork licensing?
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> do we have lots of it?
<ogra> i'm trying to get my edubuntu-artwork package in... elmo objects 
<ogra> nope, just the basic stuff...
<ogra> gdm, splash, wallpaper ... and a script in the postinst to set the default icon theme...
<jsgotangco> elmo objects because the contents of the package are not licensed accordingly?
<ogra> i first had the wallpapers from the wiki in... but since they are not explicitly licensed they cant go in...
<ogra> now i made the whole stuff myself and he says mark has to decide the license
<ogra> but mark doesnt care at all... as i do :/
<jsgotangco> elmo is just being sure of things
<jsgotangco> i remember once AndyFitz asking on the same stuff about the font he was doing
<ogra> yup
<ogra> the fun is, that it holds up everything :(
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> but then community submitted stuff is debatable for its very nature
<jsgotangco> most of the people who contribute dont even give a damn on the licensing
<jsgotangco> they just give it
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats why i ripped out the community artwork for now...
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<Petaris> highvoltage: ping
<Petaris> highvolt1ge: ping
<jsgotangco> JaneW: ack! i'm beginning to feel the wrath of silbs and mdz!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: now you know how I feel ;)
<JaneW> *efg*
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you have my sympathies though...
<jsgotangco> i'm not even employed! *grin*
<JaneW> oops gotta run - my kids are killing each other in the bath...
<highvolt1ge> Petaris: hi
<highvolt1ge> oops
<highvoltage> Petaris: are you justin?
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> highvoltage: Yes, I am
<highvoltage> cool.
<highvoltage> ogra, JaneW: how are you feeling about edubuntu these days?
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am still feeling nrevous and anxious - mainly because I haven't actually seen it yet
<JaneW> there have been too many hurdles and roadblocks for my liking
<highvoltage> my workload is decreasing heavily, from next week onward i'll be able to contribute more.
<ogra> next release will be better
<jsgotangco> JaneW: mdz's LTSP package work
<highvoltage> ogra: i hope that will go without saying for every edubuntu release ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: oh yay, good, and thanks
<ogra> highvoltage, next time we only have to add/remove stuff and care for new configuration...
<ogra> as soon as we have a working base it gets trivial... we only have to make the right changes to the defaults of ubuntu packages and add them
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> it will be very different to this time...
<jsgotangco> and the april release already has a stable base
<jsgotangco> wow more than 600 died in iraq in a stampede that is sad...
<jsgotangco> night
#edubuntu 2005-09-06
<JaneW> morning all
<JaneW> where the og?
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> don't worry, he hasn't abandoned you yet
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra> grmblfjx
<jsgotangco> any better?
<ogra> not really...
<ogra> the line is stable, but the change they made keeps my router crashing now...
<jsgotangco> that sucks
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'm sure it will sort eventually... but that will be the time i'm not in urgent need of  the line...
<jsgotangco> do you feel the pressure lately?
<ogra> sure...
<ogra> every milestone in the schedule generates pressure :)
<ogra> thats the usecase for milestones ;)
<jsgotangco> well yes i guess everyone who is actively involved is pressured now
<ogra> yup
<jane_> ogra: hello
<ogra_> hey jane_ 
* JaneW gets rid of beard ;)
<jsgotangco> ewwww
<JaneW> hey I think I just found Luis Guillermo Sobalvarro
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> who is he? artwork?
* JaneW e-mails
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> yep
* jsgotangco submits artwork to JaneW under a different name then hides
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: don;t make my life ahrder than it already is
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/edubuntu.png
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it won;t be used if we don;t know who you are... but if your pseudonym agrees to the licensing terms - that's fine ;)
<ogra> thats the current wallpaper we have in edubuntu-artwork... but i didnt hear back from elmo yet about the licensing stuff :(
<JaneW> ogra: I found him on a KDE discussion group ;)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> private eye JaneW :)
<JaneW> ogra: plain - but nice
<JaneW> ogra: is it your oen original work?
<ogra> i said i wouldnt invest more then 10min :)
<JaneW> own
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> can we use it?
<JaneW> under the CC GNU GPL license terms? ;)
<ogra> its a standard gimp filter... and a drop shadow for the logo... took a bit less then 10min
<JaneW> (I am still not certain that this license actually covers images)
<ogra> i herby grant permission to use it under the terms of any free license you can imagine
<ogra> and i confirm its my own work, not based on any other work except the logo :)
<ogra> ok, now we have it in the irclogs ;)
<JaneW> what size should wall papers be? 1024 * 768(?) ?
<ogra> 1600x1200 for normal screens and a version 1600x1000 for widescreens would be good
<ogra> scaling up from 1024x786 can get ugly... scaling down looks better 
<JaneW> ogra: speaking of which do we have to trademark the logo>
<JaneW> ?
<ogra> (it doesnt really matter for a wallpaper like i did... but if you have details they might look blurry)
<ogra> JaneW, i think thats a silbs job (and question)
<JaneW> ah 786
<JaneW> hence ping in #c ;)
<ogra> ah, didnt notice :)
<JaneW> done
<JaneW> ogra: dd you produce the wall appers at the bottom of http://www.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples?
<ogra> JaneW, nope... highvoltage's work :)
<jsgotangco> see you guys i dont feel that well
<ogra> ciao jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> hi there. i think i heard my name.
<highvoltage> oh yes, those i did. they were just to encourage other people to put something together.
<JaneW> ok Steve Torrefranca has given us full use of his wall papers, and the one done by his daughter :)
<JaneW> ogra: do you need to see the proof or can I file it?
<ogra> JaneW, mail it to elmo ? 
<JaneW> the rocking horse is from a photo he took himself :). the girl etc were hand drwn by him...
<ogra> yay
<JaneW> he is in taiwan atm, but said he'll make more for us once he is home
<JaneW> lunch time...
* JaneW just tried to use gimp... I feel so inadequate now...
<JaneW> I just managed to get the hang of photoshop... 
<magnon> what are you attempting?
<JaneW> just playing, trying to make a wall paper - I was also trying to put one of sebastein's badgers in it - then I was going to ask him if we could do something like that, or if he would fix/improve it...
<JaneW> I like the Breezy nerd pic...http://sloss.free.fr/breezy/BB_nerd.png
<magnon> He would probably do a wallpaper in either Illustrator or Inkscape
<magnon> Badger is SVG already
* JaneW tend to use photos as wallpapers....
<magnon> ah, well
<magnon> you'd just have to render Badger in different sizes :)
<magnon> (for different wallpaper sizes)
<ogra> i.e. through the export function in inkscape ;)
<magnon> or import function in GIMP :P
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> is it possible to turn a raster image into a vector image somehow (even if you loose some detail)?
<ogra> potrace :)
<ogra> there are other tools as well
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> JaneW: pong
<highvoltage> JaneW: nice wiki changes
<JaneW> highvoltage: thanks :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: still wiaitng for elom so I can get meaningful fortunecookies up...
<highvoltage> ah i see. it's an immutable page. i wonder why.
<JaneW> yup *shrug*
<JaneW> I tried making a FortunCookies2 page and pointing the macro at that, but it didn't work...
<JaneW> brb (kids-school)
<JessicaX^> Hurray!
<JessicaX^> Hello there ;0
<JessicaX^> I'm here to help :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: /ogra: do we have the latest gnome icons? Olafur Arason sent them to me and i don;t know what to do with them...
<JessicaX^> Sorry, is edubuntu using gnome?
<JaneW> yes
<JessicaX^> Ah
<JessicaX^> It's just, i've migrated schools before.. most of them wanted KDE because it's more windows-like
<JessicaX^> Plus, the applications are more friendly to children.. i think i had something somewhere about the effect phsychologically of children with monochrome colours as opposed to colour
<JessicaX^> It's all in the mind, asy they say :)
<JessicaX^> Anyways, i'll come back soon, going for a cappuchino with my muim
<JessicaX^> mum*
<JessicaX^> =)
<JaneW> ack too late...
<JaneW> highvoltage: /ogra: do we have the latest gnome icons? Olafur Arason sent them to me and i don;t know what to do with them...
<highvoltage> JaneW: afaik, we'll be using the gartoon gnome icon theme in edubuntu, although, it doesn't look like the current version uses it.
<magnon> ogra: how is the CD doing these days?
<magnon> im itching to start testing :)
<ogra> tomorrows could be good... i cant test currently, i'm online via very unstable isdn ...
<magnon> ok
<spacey> daily iso is not very nice
<magnon> not at the moment
<spacey> its a pain
<spacey> hehe
<ogra> yesterdays was quite ok... if you follow the notes
<spacey> hmmm notes
<ogra>  /topic ?
<spacey> i don't see any relevant notes, :o 
<ogra> ...to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting ...
<spacey> it started X automaticly btw unlike in the notes
<ogra> yup, that was fixed since
* P3L|C4N0 o/ Hi people
* P3L|C4N0 :)
<JessicaX^> Hey again
<JessicaX^> I have the artcile about Children and colors, etc
<JessicaX^> Heya
<magnon> children and colors?
<JessicaX^> Yes
<JessicaX^> Well, as you know, Gnome isn't as "colourful" as KDE
<magnon> sounds very schteiner to me :)
<magnon> link to the article?
<magnon> GNOME can indeed be colorful, and KDE looks horrid in general to me, but anyway :P
<JessicaX^> magnum
<magnon> although I do believe it's important to have the computer as a tool and rather have a healthy monitor etc. than having the right colors, they can paint the room instead :)
<JessicaX^> I'm serious, if you're looking into educational, the OS isn't the only thing
<magnon> Well, where's this article then?:)
<JessicaX^> Disability Requirements, etc have to be taken into consideration
<magnon> You have the high-contrast themes and things like that
<magnon> but I didnt think that far, gnome in general has good accessibility
<JessicaX^> Yeah, but
<JessicaX^> magnum, i worked with a friend migrating Windows Server's and school system to Linux
<magnon> mag_non_
<JessicaX^> Almost all the schools decided on KDE, because it seems to have the clearest graphics, and seems it would be easier for children to identify, because at young ages, they have a tendancy to be concerned with aesthetics, and not the inner workings of it
<magnon> :P
<JessicaX^> But, if you dont want to listen, i wont bother talking
<OChaos> I want to listen.... as I'll be giving a sales pitch to my superintendent later next week... =) 
<magnon> Yes, I am listening
<JessicaX^> Good, because you'll want to listen
<JessicaX^> I did it for money to live, and i know for a fact, it seemed too "monochrome" out of the box for most headmasters
<magnon> but you can tab-complete my nick properly, at least it gives me a highlight so I can see you address me
<JessicaX^> They liked KDE, mainly because out of the icons and semanticity
<JessicaX^> I understand the project is probably one of the first of it's kind, but still, start as you mean to go on
<JessicaX^> Saying to a school "Yeah, but this is open source, not windows" wont sell it at all
<JessicaX^> Neither will "Well, i like it"
<danjules> i don't see the point of this discussion since both have themes
<magnon> just FYI, skolelinux used KDE and it looked completely horrid in my opinion
<magnon> it's a matter of configuration
<magnon> yes, like danjules says
<JessicaX^> Both "themes" ?
<magnon> saying "We can make this look exactly how you wish" sells.
<JessicaX^> Yes, but it's what they want
<JessicaX^> If they dont like it, they wont have it
<magnon> saying "It's preconfigured for disabled students out of the box"  sells too
<JessicaX^> open source wont sell it to them
<magnon> cheaper price will
<magnon> open source = cheaper TCO in most circumstances 
<danjules> JessicaX^: it will and it is
<magnon> Actually I have some customers who specifically wanted open source
<JessicaX^> Yeah, i know
<JessicaX^> I'm sorry, but i've seen similar projects, i'm just making sure you know 
<JessicaX^> I thought i'd give some advice, seen as i've actually done it
<magnon> you talked about an article
<magnon> where is the article?
<magnon> it's more important to see what is wrong with GNOME and improve it, than look to KDE - themeing is possible
<JessicaX^> I'm just saying
<danjules> JessicaX^: you have a valid point: kde is more colourful and probley does look better to childere
<JessicaX^> If so, i'd like to make a KDE branch-off if you're not considering it
<danjules> n
<magnon> danjules: not my experience :/
<JessicaX^> I want to help, of course, i like projects that dive into such areas
<JessicaX^> just making sure you've got your goggles on :)
<danjules> but gnome, like kde, can be configured in anyway the user wishes
<magnon> JessicaX^: Should not be hard to merge edubuntu with kubuntu
<magnon> feel free :P
<JessicaX^> Yes, but as a rule of thumb, i've found KDE is usually easier to configure than gnome
<magnon> I won't do it, KDE is ech.
<danjules> JessicaX^: last time you used gnome?
<magnon> if colors are the only argument to switch, its invalid
<JessicaX^> danjules
<JessicaX^> 3 seconds ago
<JessicaX^> ;)
<magnon> again
<magnon> _you mentioned an article_
<JessicaX^> Yes, i'm looking for it!
<JessicaX^> Relax
<magnon> ok
<JessicaX^> I'm not trying to undermine anything, dont get so stressed
<magnon> let me know then
<magnon> instead of ignoring my question :P
<JessicaX^> "(18:52:20) magnon: I won't do it, KDE is ech."
<JessicaX^> Ech?
<JessicaX^> Ecchi? As in gay?
<magnon> no, ech = eww
<magnon> unlikable
<magnon> etc.
<magnon> fugly
<JessicaX^> Well, thats just your opinion
<magnon> of course
<JessicaX^> If you want choice, then it's strange to dwell on gnome
<JessicaX^> :)
<magnon> have I ever said I need choice?
<magnon> I made choices long ago, and they support me very well
<JessicaX^> Nono
<JessicaX^> I dont mean you
<JessicaX^> I mean, the target consumer for edubuntu
<magnon> I am a target consumer, if you wish
<JessicaX^> I like potatoes, but that doesnt mean everyone does
<magnon> my customers are edubuntu consumers
<JessicaX^> Eh?
<JessicaX^> Well, it just seems to me you think i'm speaking jibberish or something
<magnon> they are generally non-computer savvy people, and I find they get their way around gnome easier than kde.
<magnon> what, that I have customers that use Ubuntu?
<magnon> I'm not a Canonical representative :)
<JessicaX^> ... so?
<JessicaX^> What does that have to do with what i'm talking about?
<JessicaX^> Just because you have customers that use Ubuntu, doesnt mean EVERYONE wants to use it
<magnon> no, so?
<JessicaX^> It's just like me saying, i like anime, so everyone else MUST like anime
<danjules> no  it's not
<magnon> 19:56:45 < JessicaX^> If you want choice, then it's strange to dwell on gnome
<danjules> it is like says, all the people i work for like gnome, therefore i give them gnome
<JessicaX^> I'm not going to argue, because seems to be since step #1 you didnt want to listen to what i had to say
<magnon> ^I just simply rebuted that statement, and said that my customers who have gnome, have had the choice, and they chose gnome
<magnon> but I'm having dinner now
<JessicaX^> Yes, i know you said that
<JessicaX^> I'm just saying, the customers I had preferred KDE
<JessicaX^> Afformentioned customers being educational institutions
<danjules> i'm out
<JessicaX^> I'm just going to shut up
<JessicaX^> Just ignore what i said
<magnon> JessicaX^: Same as my afformentioned customers, they chose gnome, also being educational
<magnon> the point is thouhg, that Ubuntu and therefore Edubuntu is a Gnome-centered OS, therefore me supporting Edubuntu would naturally make me choose Gnome
<magnon> if I sell Edubuntu services, I wouldn't even give the customer the choice, because simply I cannot work on KDE, it's not my profession
<magnon> if you want to create a kedubuntu, go ahead, it's free software
<magnon> skolelinux.org is a distribution based on debian using KDE for edu too
<magnon> when it comes to the coloring, it's a non-problem, as gnome is fully themeable and so is KDE
<magnon> although the definition of "fully" might be arguable
<JessicaX^> Heh
<JessicaX^> I'm not going to bother, you seem to know everything, so
<JessicaX^> I'll just idle
<JessicaX^> :)
<jelkner> does anyone know where to send the hardware database file when it doesn't go automatically?
<JessicaX^> Hmm?
<jelkner> when you run the "Ubuntu Device Database" program it generates a hardware database file.
<jelkner> it is usually sent in automatically
<jelkner> but sometimes that fails, and you are advised to email it in as an attachment
<jelkner> but once you click "OK", the address to send it to is gone
<ogra> jelkner, it normally lands in my mailbox ;)
<ogra> send it to hwdb.ubuntu.com
<jelkner> oh, can i send it to you then?
<ogra> yup
<jelkner> which do you prefer?
<ogra> doesnt matter :) 
<jelkner> ok
<jelkner> ogra: do you have a few minutes now to talk about a few edubuntu topics?
<ogra> sure
<jelkner> i won't be able to make tomorrow's meeting
<jelkner> i'm back at school already
<ogra> no problem
<jelkner> i've started in on some documents
<ogra> ah, great 
<jelkner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeffreyElkner
<jelkner> one is specifically a list of the hardware we are using
<jelkner> mdz has been bugging us for it
<ogra> moodle with zope ? wow
<jelkner> i figured using the hardware database id's would be helpful to you... is that true
<jelkner> moodle and zope on the same server, that's all
<ogra> ah, i thought you made moodle run through zope
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> it's really about apache virtual domains
<jelkner> i got both apps to run through our fire wall on port 80
<ogra> currently the hwdb isnt too halpful, its just a very huge collection of files... i wanted to start to work on the database server as soon as edubuntu is in a good state...
<jelkner> but the data will be in there, yes?
<ogra> yup
<jelkner> when you get around to it, i mean
<jelkner> and it looks like we will soon be able to access our own database file through the app
<ogra> i have about 100 000 files curretnly... that isnt even searchable anymore... it urgently needs SQL
<jelkner> ah
<jelkner> will there be an easy way to move the data?
<jelkner> into an sql db i mean
<ogra> thats next on my list... since Kamion is back again i think we'll have sorted the CD this week completely...
<ogra> i'll write some scripts... 
<jelkner> cool
<ogra> thats not to hard... a good DB design is harder
<jelkner> good luck with that
<jelkner> it will be a big help
<ogra> and will certainly take more time
<ogra> yup...
<jelkner> i want to submit bugzilla reports
<JessicaX^> Did i hear SQL ?
<ogra> go ahead, file them :)
<jelkner> but it would be so much easier if a user could submit a report that was connected to data you already had about the machine
<jelkner> maybe it could even be a feature of the hardware database app?
<ogra> yup, i had a lot of plans for it for breezy already, but then edubuntu came :) so i'm lagging a bit with the hwdb
<jelkner> ok, let me let that one go then
<jelkner> next issue...
<ogra> update of the DB records was one :)
<jelkner> what is the current prefered way to install an edubuntu server?
<ogra> oh, btw, i was planning a local server too, you could use it in your school if you have a lot different HW ...
<jelkner> local server?
<OChaos> back
<ogra> my current preferred way is to use the daily CD and install edubuntu-server manually afterwards, this should change with tomorrows build
<jelkner> then i'll wait until tomorrow
<ogra> a local hwdb SQL server for the support team at your site
<jelkner> the previous way worked, the server we setup a few weeks back is working fine
<jelkner> but i want to test the newer install preceedure when it is ready
<ogra> i *hope* its all sorted ;) Kamion changed the missing bits
<ogra> yup...
<jelkner> the deadline for me is next monday on the next one
<ogra> it was planned from the beginning that you only need the CD if you got no network access
<jelkner> and before software freedom day on the one after that
<jelkner> that would be great!
<jelkner> so i'll check in with you again tomorrow to see if it is ready to be tested
<ogra> i'll do my best :)
<jelkner> i started an apcsc java page on the wiki
<ogra> cross your fingers my DSL works again tomorrow :/
<ogra> i see it :)
<jelkner> i'm going to use the blackdown packages
<ogra> 4. search for j2se (or j2re) in synaptic
<ogra> 5. install them ;)
<jelkner> yea, i did that
<jelkner> very easy
<jelkner> the only pain is the docs
<jelkner> that requires you to download a zip file from sun, change it's ownership to root.root, and put it in /tmp
<ogra> argh
<ogra> are they redistributable by license ?
<jelkner> nope
<ogra> bah
<jelkner> or at least i don't think so
<jelkner> hopefully, by next year we can use gcj
<jelkner> the only real problem for the class is going to be the marine biology case study
<jelkner> which requires the graphics libraries to work
<ogra> i think gcj is already usable... the prob is the missing plugin
<jelkner> i haven't tested it, but i heard much of swing is not there yet
<ogra> ah, yes... swing
<jelkner> the marine biology case study requires that
<jelkner> and that is a big component of the curriculum
<jelkner> and the test
<jelkner> so no way to avoid it
<jelkner> anyway, one last question and i need to get back to working on this stuff..
<jelkner> i want to make a little how-to on doing recovery using the ubuntu-live cd
<ogra> have you played with recovery mode yet ?
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> how?
<ogra> its undocumented, i think just recovery on the CD bootprompt
<jelkner> which, live or install?
<ogra> s/recovery/"recovery"
<ogra> install worked for me recently...
<jelkner> are you familiar with rescue mode on fedora?
<ogra> nope
<jelkner> it is really nice
<ogra> my last time i saw a fedora was when 7.1 was new
<jelkner> you take the install cd and type "linux rescue"
<ogra> or redhat...
<jelkner> oh, this goes back to redhat 8.0
<ogra> i think its the same with our installer currently... i forgot what i have done exactly
* JessicaX^ slaps jelkner with a FOSS bat
<jelkner> the nicest thing about it is that it searches for linux installs and mounts the device on which it finds one
<jelkner> then a simple chroot and you are ready to rock
<ogra> try ours its quite similar
<jelkner> so we need to document it then!
<JessicaX^> Hey again
<JessicaX^> :)
<ogra> yeah
<jelkner> JessicaX: hi!
<jelkner> i'll try it out
<jelkner> you just type "recovery" at the boot prompt, like "server"?
<ogra> yes, i think thats what i did or "linux recovery" i'm not sure anymore its a while ago
<jelkner> i'll try both, and let you know if it works
<jelkner> will edubuntu be discussed in montreal?
<ogra> it will complain at the wrong one :)
<ogra> i think so
<JessicaX^> Hello
<JessicaX^> :O
<jelkner> i was to ask about that tomorrow
<jelkner> JessicaX: why did you slap me with a FOSS bat?
<jelkner> i would like to go, but i'll need to begin making plans soon
<jelkner> i guess Jane is the one to ask about that, but she just timed out :)
<JessicaX^> I love FOSS bats
<JessicaX^> =/
<jelkner> JessicaX: and i like being hit with them!
<jelkner> ok, time to get back to installing, testing, and documenting
<ogra> jelkner, i'll ask her about it tomorrow... i dont know any official plans... but since the ltsp crew is there too we should meet up, even if the focus for breezy+1 isnt on ltsp anymore
<JessicaX^> Then we're set?
<jelkner> what do you mean, this is only the begining?
<jelkner> JessicaX: absolutely!
<ogra> target for this release was only one classroom
<ogra> target for the next is the whole school...
<jelkner> indeed
<jelkner> and the things we did not get finished this time
<jelkner> like:
<ogra> i think my development focus will lie on ldap etc and on server clustering solutions for load balancing
<jelkner> 1. light-weight desktop
<jelkner> 2. content filtering
<ogra> thats not an edubuntu feature, it gets developed in ubuntu anyway
<jelkner> but the content filtering *is* part of edubuntu
<JessicaX^> I want to help the project, by the way
<JessicaX^> What does this project plan to achieve
<ogra> content filtering also needs a ubuntu wide solution where edubuntu will only participate (even if it might be developed inside of edubuntu)
<jelkner> it's the two machine architecture we discussed in australia
<jelkner> a router, content filter, caching proxy server in front of the ltsp server
<jelkner> that is going to be important in most places we install this
<ogra> yes, i saw that, but content filtering is also a good thing to offer standalone so its not bound to edubuntu
<ogra> but i agree that we should have it in breezy+1
<jelkner> fair enough, but making setting up the whole thing in an integreated way is
<jelkner> and the goal is to have a teacher / low level building tech person be able to do it
<ogra> nah, its only finding good defaults that fit everywhere...
<ogra> then i can either use it standalone or in a edu context...
<ogra> it needs a easy gui and some very good defaults
<jelkner> which will acomplish the goal i just mentioned
<jelkner> if it is easy enough to do
<jelkner> most anyone will be able to do it
<jelkner> even teachers :)
<ogra> teachers in my country are able to configure DSL routers... if its better than that, its fine :)
<ogra> s/better/easier
<jelkner> that sounds right to me
<jelkner> but since my main role in life these days seems to be as a free software evangelist, i'll be setting up a bunch of these in various places and people will be calling me when they don't work
<jelkner> so i want to be easy for me!
<ogra> it will be.. ;)
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> ok, talk to you soon...
<ogra> this release will still have some rough edges, but the next one will rock :)
<jelkner> i know it will
<jelkner> ubuntu just keeps getting better and better!
<jelkner> cya
<ogra> yup
<mpt> ogra: Whatever you will have time to develop over the next six months, maybe you could set up a UBZ BoF for designing it?
<mpt> e.g. the ContentFiltering UI
<ogra> mpt, sure ... 
<mpt> otherwise I'll never get around to it ;-)
#edubuntu 2005-09-07
<magnon> grgrmmgrmbl.
<magnon> some customers... arh
<magnon> *stab*
<ogra> at 1:33 ?
<magnon> that's when I read mail :P
<ogra> ah :)
<magnon> "we're having problems with some email stuff, which you already told us that we cannot get a proper solution to before we change ISPs to your cooperative one. But please fix it fast anyway."
<magnon> not exactly quited :P
<magnon> quoted
<magnon> also they're having lots of trouble with the network
<magnon> if they propose that they want to go back to Windows, I'm all ears :P
<magnon> done so much free work for them, and now they breach the contract by doing stuff without notifying us, and complain because it doesn't work
<magnon> same customer who wondered why the unshielded cat-5 hanging from a powerline didnt work
<magnon> *sigh* guess I have to go out there tomorrow though :P
<ogra> hmm
<magnon> this was the first place we started working at so we were unexperienced, we didn't put enough demands towards their infrastructure etc.
<magnon> deeply regret that now
<magnon> as long as they pay up for server + network infrastructure, and make sure everything else is compatible, the rest can be crap :P
<magnon> mostly.
<jsgotangco> hmm JaneW  are you doing an all-nighter?
<highvoltage> ogra: i did a ltsp-build-client from the latest edubuntu cd, but it said some packages failed to download, run apt-get update, should it still work as expected?
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<JaneW> no I wasn't at my screen all night
<JaneW> just stayed on-line
<magnon> hehe
<magnon> 2 hours of sleep :D
<JaneW> magnon: you?
<JaneW> I intended to work again last night, but passed out while watching 'CSI-NY' after going to gym ;)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> nice going
<magnon> JaneW: yeah
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> this winter has not been kind to me...
<magnon> oh, you guys have winter
<magnon> hehe
<magnon> not that there's any difference anyway
<magnon> either rain or snow
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<ogra> JaneW, pong
<JaneW> ogra: you never mailed me a tech update on edubuntu yesterday
<ogra> ergh.. oh, sorry...
<JaneW> ogra: I put in what I could, which I hope was accurate
<JaneW> ogra: can you give me a few lines for the BreezyGoals pages please?
<ogra> the main work was caring for all apps to get to main
<JaneW> ogra: do you know if/when we gcan go 'green'?
<JaneW> ogra: yes I mentioned the status of the main inclusion reports
<ogra> i hpe the next CD build will be good enough to go with it... lets see, i'm actively working with Kamion on it currently
<JaneW> ogra: great, is kamion helping with the problems you had?
<ogra> if i have the first successfull install here, we can go to green
<JaneW> yay - how optimistic are you feeling?
<JaneW> ogra: are you available for the meeing later?
<ogra> in fact they were caused by his bootloader config, and by some missing entrys ... i just couldnt change it with him because he wasnt here and i didnt recognize it before...
<ogra> sure i am
<JaneW> ogra: that sounds promising
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> is the artwork ok now?
<ogra> i'm very courious... Kamion triggers a new build directly after the changes
* JaneW too
<ogra> do you run breezy ? 
<JaneW> ogra: no not yet... I am dying to see it
<JaneW> where can I see screen shots?
<JaneW> I keep hearing it looks nice..
<ogra> ah, ok, else i would have said just instal edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> the package is up, i'll add the other artwork in the next upload again... currently its only my stuff and a huge license... elmo wanted a special flavour of the cc
<JaneW> right
<JaneW> but is the artwork ok legally now?
<JaneW> will elmo accept it? do you think?
<ogra> i'll ask him for every piece i add :-P
<JaneW> oh, which one?
<JaneW> (license)
<JaneW> and must I put that up on the site too?
<JaneW> there's licensing all over our wiki now...
<JaneW> must I get official permission from highvoltage too? :p
<JaneW> **REMINDER** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 90 mins
<jsgotangco> no way
<jsgotangco> i should be drinking tonight
<JaneW> any doc updates?
<JaneW> will we still get any docs?
<jsgotangco> not the cookbook for sure
<jsgotangco> do we have a usable system?
<JaneW> BOooHOOoo
<JaneW> we are waiting
<JaneW> kamion is building it right now
<jsgotangco> we can't have docs with something we don't have atm
<JaneW> I out the how to pdf on the wiki in the mean time
<jsgotangco> or else i'll be better off writing a fiction novel
<JaneW> lol
* JaneW goes to get lunch
<jsgotangco> i hope you understand my reasons for that
<jsgotangco> it doesn't help as well that me an jbailey are a bit busy for preview release
<JaneW> yes I do, because you are difficult
<jsgotangco> i'm difficult?
<jsgotangco> ????
<jsgotangco> i hope that is a typo because i do not understand what you mean by that
<JaneW> *run*
<JaneW> *hide*
<JaneW> *rotfl*
<jsgotangco> i'm difficult?
<jsgotangco> im going out
<jsgotangco> "i'm not difficult"
<JaneW> **REMINDER** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting iNOW
<JaneW> **REMINDER** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting NOW
<JaneW> jsgotangco: are we still talking?
<JaneW> I am sorry if I upset you - my comment was in jest. I don't always think before I speak
<JaneW> and it seemed funny at the time
<jsgotangco> sure i was just working all day on the docs
<jsgotangco> i was just tired
<jsgotangco> we were under pressure to deliver by preview
<JaneW> sorry
<jsgotangco> i didn't really understand the joke
<JaneW> I really do appreciate all you have done so far
<jsgotangco> nahh its ok
<JaneW> I was teasing
<JaneW> I don;t think you are difficult, in fact you have been very accomodating so far, so the joke was that it's so far from the truth it's funny... but whatever
<JaneW> let's forget it?
<ogra> jsgotangco, why were you under pressure ? doc freeze is still more then a week to go, isnt it ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra: we don't have that great docs atm
<jsgotangco> we were thinking of asking mdz to drop the freeze
<ogra> i think thats a good plan, but i doubt mdz will agree
<ogra> i'd drop both, artwork and doc freeze
<jsgotangco> jbailey started uploading today
<jsgotangco> the whole day we were fixing the faqguide so its the most decent doc we'll have for 5.10
<jsgotangco> but some of the stuff i'm not really in favor
<ogra> jsgotangco, if the CD is in shape i'll have time left to help out on the cookbook...
<jsgotangco> don't worry about it, its just a hectic time for me atm
<ogra> and since i know the technical side best it would probably speed up things...
<jsgotangco> even if im not working, i've been invited to talk to schools and im preparing for linuxworld in 2 weeks
<jsgotangco> the structure is there, but what really lacks now is the technical side
<jsgotangco> docs can be easily pushed as an update anyway
<jsgotangco> that is my opinion
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> it doesn't help as well that we're only 4 people active in writing
<jsgotangco> well make that 3
<ogra> i hae no problem with writing docs as long as i have the time :)
<jsgotangco> same here
<jsgotangco> the fault we made was that half of the time people were talking about ingfrastructure
<ogra> yup
<ogra> same with edubuntu, to many discussions...packed with xorg and c++ transition...
<jsgotangco> well generally xorg really had a huge impact on our workflow
<ogra> yup
<ogra> c++ too... 
<ogra> its still not done for universe
<jsgotangco> gyahh
<jsgotangco> hmm so i guess some stuff in universe won't come out by release?
<ogra> yup, looks like... i'm pushing as much as i can... but we are simply not enough MOTUs
<jsgotangco> i was hoping for the intro developer doc being done in time, but i still don't see it
<jsgotangco> hopefully i grow further after breezy
<ogra> Unfrgiven was making a lot of noise after UDU about that docs... but since he's MOTU i havent even seen him online (2 months or so)
<jsgotangco> well yes we talked about it as well
<jsgotangco> but he is probably busy at school
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> the CD looks gooood !!!!
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20050902.3/report.html
<ogra> only ppc stuff left
* ogra rsyncs
<jsgotangco> hmmm getting better
<ogra> if i'd drop emacs now, ppc would be good too, and we'd have a preview release
<ogra> *g*
<jsgotangco> *sigh* i guess thats a necessary evil
<ogra> dont worry, i'D drop vim too... and we had to deal with nano :)
<ogra> no, seriously, i can still drop the langs other then en
<jsgotangco> are you still aiming for 1CD?
<ogra> i'm aiming for one CD without langpacks ad a DVD with langpacks, yes
<ogra> but for testing i want to leave some additional langs on the cD
<jsgotangco> oh it just stopped raining
<jsgotangco> maybe the pub across is still open...
<jsgotangco> later all, have a nice weekend
<jsgotangco> JaneW: we're fine now :)
<JaneW> good :)
<JaneW> I have such a nack of rubbing ppl up the wrong way...
<jsgotangco> huh?
<jsgotangco> errr
<jsgotangco> JaneW: what is this pdf that you said you posted?
<jsgotangco> nvm i'll just look for it myself
<jsgotangco> tuxlab cookbook
<jsgotangco> *sigh*
<JaneW> yes
<JaneW> sorry
<jsgotangco> for?
<jsgotangco> it can't be helped
<jsgotangco> i'll make you a compromise
<JaneW> ok...?
<jsgotangco> i'll rip the existing cookbook now and just change all the entries from tuxlab to edubuntu
<jsgotangco> and just edit up the remaining text
<jsgotangco> and you'll have your cookbook by hmmm thursday
<JaneW> that will be a good start :)
<JaneW> and I am sure we can get to fixing other intricacies after..
<jsgotangco> by pushing it as an update
<JaneW> :)
<jsgotangco> im not that much of a scripting guru but i'll sort out the image not being included in the pdf/html by next week
<JaneW> I'd better go my son just said 'I noticed that 1 minute is shorter than 5 minutes'
<JaneW> clearly I am misleading him...
<jsgotangco> ok i should try to sleep
<jsgotangco> i've been in front of a laptop all day
<highvoltage> JaneW_away: you got a response :)
<ali4728> Can anyone help with multiple web site hosting on a single IP ( Name Based Virt Host) ?
<ogra> gnah
<highvoltage> hang
<ogra> damned... only one small error on the current CD
<ogra> ltsp-build-client doesnt get run at the end of the install process.... otherwise the CD is fine now
<highvoltage> wow.
<ogra> and the artwork is still in universe, but that should change next week
<ogra> so we are ready to go with a preview release hand in hand with ubuntu...
<highvoltage> that's so cool. what's the status on teachertool? i've been a bit out of touch.
<ogra> me too :)
<ogra> i'll get back to it as soon as the CD stands
<highvoltage> nice
<ogra> i did a lot of work on the login manager, it will be no problem to have a xdmcp like feature, but only to edubuntu (ssh driven) servers
<ogra> which can be in principle every ssh server that has a windowmanager (no X needed) installed
<highvoltage> i hope i get to test the edubuntu ltsp properly this weekend. last i got to play with it was more than three weeks ago. have had lots of deadlines recently.
<ogra> it would be really nice if you could...
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20050902.4/
<ogra> thats the best one we have now... 
<highvoltage> i think i just need to focus myself more.
<ogra> and its really good already... 
<highvoltage> i get distracted easily, there's just so more i wish i knew, i'd like to learn python really well.
<ogra> lets wok together on some stuff for breezy+1
<ogra> work even
<highvoltage> yes, that would be great.
<highvoltage> how do i uuencode those icons in the gartoon theme?
<highvoltage> nevermind, i'll ask you tomorrow, it's been a long day :)
<highvoltage> how are you feeling? things are coming together good, hey?
<ogra> yup, and i'm a bit distracted, just finishing my test install
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'm feeling great, except we shuld have had this status a month ago :)
<highvoltage> is it just edubuntu that's a bit behind, or ubuntu too?
<ogra> but i'm confident we'll match the release deadline with a really cool distro
<ogra> ubuntu just dropped all stuff that couldnt make it very early...
<highvoltage> that's cool. i have lots of confidence in you and the ubuntu team.
<ogra> but universe is in a very bad state... the transitions are all not finished yet
<ogra> edubuntu will suffer from that as well
<ogra> sadly
<highvoltage> transitions? is that when the sid packages need to be ubuntu-ised?
<ogra> nope, thats if something very basic changes an everything depending on it has to be fixed
<ogra> i.e. gcc4 and xorg
<ogra> that were the most noticeable
<ogra> ones
<ogra> hey JaneW 
<highvoltage> geez.
#edubuntu 2005-09-08
* xf waves
<xf> is the current iso installable, and more or less works?
<xf> last time i downloaded it, some of the dependencies in the edubuntu metapackage were broken, and x seemed to not work
<jsgotangco> hey guys
#edubuntu 2005-09-09
<magnon> w3
<magnon> nvm :P
<jsgotangco> hey all
<ogra> gah !
<ogra> the doc team broke the CD builds
<magnon> :(
<ogra> the one of yesterday is quite good already, you only have to run sudo ltsp-build-client manually in the end....
<ogra> should have been solved on todays... but now the docs are totally broken, so you cant even install anything after the first reboot :(
<ogra> that was the last i'd have expected :(
<magnon> hm
<magnon> sucks
<ogra> yu
<ogra> p
<ogra> they changed the binary names of the doc packages....
<magnon> I'd like to test it in a pristine state... at least as pristine as it gets atm
<magnon> doh
<ogra> i'll rip out the docs, so tomorrows should be fine.... the odd thing is, that i cant test the ltsp-build-client fix now 
<magnon> the doc team fawked breezy as well, then?
<ogra> i'm not sure if it was the docteam or jbailey (the packager)
<magnon> I hope it's not Jeff, I've been bugging him a lot lately ;D
<ogra> i dont know who decided to change the package ... so i'm carfull with blyming anybody
#edubuntu 2005-09-10
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> ogra, ping?
<ogra> jsgotangco, pong
<ogra> jsgotangco, you broke my CD yesterday
<jsgotangco> ogra, will you be packaging the docs?
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> i was about to ask that
<ogra> obviously the doc-team decided that we dont have a package called ubuntu-quickguide anymore... so edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop are uninstallable...
<ogra> which breaks the install directly after reboot
<ogra> and, indeed, i'll be packaging the docs ;)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<ogra> there is already a bug open about it... its just odd to introduce such a harmful change during preview freeze :)
<ogra> anyway, i worked around it for now... dunno what ubuntu will do here
<jsgotangco> well jbailey was experimenting around with what is currently in svn
<jsgotangco> what he did was remove all existing docs and dumped them into ubuntu-doc
<ogra> yup, but the binary was called ubuntu-quickguide before... thats what the seeds say... germinate expects it to be there
<ogra> so either you depend on ubuntu-docs (which is about being moved to universe because of this change) or you change the seeds...
<jsgotangco> hmmm there's still ubuntu-quickguide
<ogra> i did the latter for edubuntu, but i think that might be not desired by ubuntu
<jsgotangco> wonder if jbailey is aware of it
<ogra> nope... there is an old package of ubuntu-quickguide.... there is a ubuntu-doc with a newer version, so this old one wont be installable
<ogra> as i said, there is already a bug open about it...
<ogra> and Kamion (who filed it) seems not to be after changig the seeds
<jsgotangco> what bug is this?
<jsgotangco> 14709?
<ogra> and 03 ... the need to be merged...
<ogra> they even
<jsgotangco> yes i'm CC myself
<jsgotangco> we can probably split some docs
<jsgotangco> quickguide to faqguide but same package
<ogra> you should just make sure the seeds show what you actually offer...
<ogra> the CD breaks only if this is out of sync.... so either remover ubuntu-quickguide from the seeds or re-introduce the package
<jsgotangco> will we be able to remove seeds at this time?
<ogra> i think so... but better ask colin/mdz
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 2 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our latest CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting many improvements have bee
<ogra> hrm
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 2 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | TEST OUR LATEST CD ! see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting many improvements have been made
<ogra> better :)
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> ogra: CD is sounding promising :)
<ogra> JaneW, two manual steps left, all packages on CD... one step will be gone tonight, the second is a bit trickier, i first have to learn quickly how to make installer packages :)
<ogra> but even if we are a day or two later then ubuntu with our preview through that, edubuntu will rock the ltsp world ... :-D
<ogra> todays CD is really convincing...
<JaneW> well done :))
<ogra> yup, i'm quite proud ;)
<JaneW> you should be :)
<JaneW> (how's you cat now btw?)
<JaneW> did you see this... JaneW Another South African born dot-commer (Zip 2and PayPal), involved in space travel http://www.carteblanche.co.za/Display/Display.asp?Id=2879
<ogra> the cat is slowly recreating from the surgery...
<ogra> s/recreating/recovering/
<JaneW> good
<ogra> yup
<ogra> JaneW, that guy should hire mark as pilot ;)
<JaneW> ogra: indeed
<JaneW> I loved his comment that he would pay $20M to NOT have to live in Russia for 6 months..
<ogra> heh
<Carpe_Libertatem> Welcome.
<JaneW> ogra: so what license are we using for edubuntu now
<JaneW> specifically images?
<ogra> creative commons sharealike
<ogra> say cc-sa-2.5
<ogra> i think elmo wants it for all artwork in the future, even for ubuntu
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> as far as i understood him on the weeken
<ogra> d
<JaneW> I think that's what I was tryuing to use first, and then I changed it cos your guys were talking about GPL
<JaneW> GDL
<ogra> yup... at least you had a CC variant...
<JaneW> If I have to stop a bittorrent d/l half way through will I need to start it again from sctratch later, or can it carry on where it left off?
<ogra> this one is a bit odd, since you cant just download it as txt file... it took me 20min to reformat it manuall from the html page
<ogra> it should just pick up again
<JaneW> ok thanks...
<JaneW> I started d/ling something lareg which won;t finish before hometime, I wasn;t usre if it would be wasted if I stop it before it ends...
<ogra> it should just continue where it stopped... but i'm not a massive           torrentuser
<Orby> hello :)
<Orby> saw the thing about the torrent, your torrent should resume from where you left it, depending on the client i should check to see how much of the file you allready have and then just get the rest for you
<Orby> i havnt seen a client that doesnt support resuming yet...
<Orby> oh and sorry if i kinda butted into your convo half way through :P
<ogra> Orby, dont worry, thats what the channel is for :)
<JaneW> orby np, and thanks
<Orby> its ok :), i've been idle in here for a bit, thought it was time i said something :)
<ogra> Orby, nice to meet you then :)
<Orby> nice to meet you also :D
<Orby> i'm in #ubuntu as well, but its giving me a headache trying to read what people are putting, its just scrolling toooo fast :)
<JaneW> yes it's pretty hard to keep up there...
<ogra> hehe... yes, i started there too
<JaneW> LOTS of users
<ogra> only 320... thats not much
<ogra> at high times there were always around 500
<Orby> wow now that is alot
<ogra> yup... it has gone down due to the spambot attacs the last days...
<Orby> oh ?
<ogra> the attacs are less now... but its still not over i think
<highvoltage> almost time to go home. aaaaaah.
<magnon> ogra: how is the CD now? :)
<ogra> see http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> the dhcp reload should be fixed today... the ltsp-build-client is a bit more tricky
<ogra> but with those two manual steps its fine...
<magnon> ok
<danjules> 2
<Orby> 3
<magnon> 4
<Orby> 5
<danjules> 6
<danjules> i tried to switch windows in irssi but i messed up :)
<Orby> :D
<ogra> well counted guys :)
<magnon> ill install the daily cd right now
<magnon> hope it works
<magnon> :D
<ogra> for me it did...
<ogra> 3 times ...
<magnon> cool
<magnon> I have a server and client ready :P
<magnon> anything specific you'd like to have tested?
<ogra> just run it ... click around a bit try to use some apps... if you find errors, report them...
<magnon> ok
<cyphase> hey everyone
<ogra> hi
<yvesC> hi all
<yvesC> someone has tested gcompris from universe ?
<yvesC> i think the deb is broken
<ogra> yvesC, in breezy ? 
<yvesC> in hoary.
<yvesC> it's fixed in breezy ?
<yvesC> gcompris does not find pthon-gtk and run with 50 boards only
<ogra> its fixedin breezy....
<yvesC> what version is in breezy?
<ogra> i havent worked on the hoary package, so i cant judge it, sorry... 
<yvesC> you have made the breezy package ?
<ogra> i had to add a lot of he 7.0 stuff to make it work with our current compiler... so its a 6.5.3 with some 7.0 love added
<yvesC> did you test the 7.0 in ubuntu ?
<ogra> nope, i just added the appropriate fixes to 6.5.3 to make it work right...
<ogra> but 7.0 should compile fine based on my experience with backporting fixes i just didnt compile the whole cvs version...
<ogra> i'm confident we'll see it in breezy+1
<yvesC> 7.0 needs pysqlite2. It's in breezy?
<ogra> i.e. in 6 weeks
<ogra> yup
<yvesC> good. So we could make a breezy deb for 7.0
<yvesC> thanks. I will test breezy tomorrow.
<ogra> great :)
<yvesC> in edubuntu there will be all breezy ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> and gcompris is preinstalled :)
<ogra> if you want to install edubuntu wihout ltsp server, just type "workstation" at the CD bootprompt and you get a normal ubuntu desktop with the edubuntu apps and (not yet) the edubuntu artwork
<yvesC> great
<yvesC> in lstp case, for classroom, system means a login account for each kid ?
<ogra> during install you set up the admin account, afterwards you can add accounts as you like... 
<ogra> i.e. one for every kid if you want to :)
<yvesC> ok. It's possible to update from hoary to edubuntu workstation directly?
<ogra> should be possible... just do a hoary->breezy upgrade and install edubuntu-desktop on top
#edubuntu 2005-09-11
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop depends on all edubuntu desktop apps as well as all ubuntu-desktop apps
<ogra> (plus edubuntu-artwork in the next few days)
<yvesC> thanks. i will test that as soon as wget finished download iso
<ogra> :)
<ogra> thanks for testing 
<yvesC> thanks for working ;)
<bdoin> ogra: thanks for your work on gcompris
<ogra> you're welcome ... 
<ogra> it will still need a lot of testing... i dont play every board to test ;)
* magnon is about to install
<ogra> yay
<magnon> hm
<ogra> ?
<magnon> is there any cool ways to do the iso install without burning? :P
<magnon> dunno if I have cds
<ogra> hm
<magnon> nvm, found :)
<ogra> CDRW is great for testing CD releases ;)
<magnon> with my current wallet I cant even afford a single cd :)
<ogra> ouch
<Burgundavia> what is this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanDo
<ogra> i'd ask EldarOmuraliev
<magnon> I'll get a confirmation tomorrow however on a major training thingy that'll net us some profit and me some saslary :P
<magnon> salary*
<ogra> i wonder what for he needs multiverse
<ogra> in advance ? 
<magnon> couple of weeks
<ogra> cool :)
<magnon> as I own 1/3 of it, I can pay out about whenever I want so :p
<ogra> heh
<magnon> we're just attempting to save up so we can afford up to half a year of paying running costs... but if we have guaranteed income, that pot can be diminished temporarily
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<magnon> nooooo
<magnon> I got the 64bit image
<magnon> :P
<ogra> so get the matching hardware ...
* magnon runs out and buys
<ogra> :)
<magnon> you know, I'll just download the i386 one :)
<ogra> he
<ogra> h
<yongaik> hello
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> doing good?
<JaneW> yep, and you?
<jsgotangco> not bad
<jsgotangco> just keeping myself from being bored heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: good
<jsgotangco> maybe i should do something crazy
<JaneW> jsgotangco: like?
<jsgotangco> break the build like yesterday
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<JaneW> jsgotangco: step AWAY from the build!
* JaneW gets out whip...
* JaneW threatens jsgotangco with grievous bodily harm if he intentionally breaks edubuntu ...
<jsgotangco> oh it did break yesterday but got fixed
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and don;t forget I will see you at UBZ (right?) so this is no idle threat ;)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, UBZ if sponsorship goes through...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: holding thumbs
<JaneW> are you on the list?
<jsgotangco> im burning the disc right now i can test later
<jsgotangco> JaneW, list? UBZ wiki page yes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: great.
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<JaneW> ogra: have you seen http://art.ubuntu.com/?
<jsgotangco> wow nice
<JaneW> jsgotangco: are you head of the docteam?
<jsgotangco> no, we have no head
<jsgotangco> i do their clean up
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> well how amenable are you to bribes?
<JaneW> ;)
<jsgotangco> oohhh
<jsgotangco> depends on who bribes
<JaneW> I'll put your name on the 'recommended for sponsorship' list
<JaneW> if you make sure edubunut's doc are sorted :P
<JaneW> s/doc/docs
<jsgotangco> JaneW, all docs are sorted
<jsgotangco> im almost done in About Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> Release Notes will be done by jbailey and I will edit it further
<jsgotangco> other than that, its all cookbook if my test goes well
<JaneW> ok
* JaneW adds jsgotangco 's name to list for valuable contributions ;)
<JaneW> what's your contry code?
<jsgotangco> PH
<JaneW> ta
<jsgotangco> what for?
<JaneW> the list
<JaneW> Coming from?
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i'm going to struggle with jet lag if i get there
<JaneW> nothing's guaranteed, but at least you are on the internal list now
<jsgotangco> wow so there's an internal list...
<jsgotangco> i'll be speaking in LinuxWorld next week you wanna see the slides?
<JaneW> sure
<JaneW> jsgotangco: well there's a list on the Canonical wiki, but the list on the ubuntu wiki will be fed into that
<jsgotangco> wow what does the canonical wiki for if we have an ubuntu one? internal issues?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, we can probably ship the basic docs (about, release notes) and push cookbook after release
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just process and procedure stuff, leave, contact details, expense forsm that kind of stuff
<JaneW> jsgotangco: everything else is public
<JaneW> highvoltage: PING
<ogra> JaneW, i saw art.ubuntu.com during development ;) 
<ogra> morning
<JaneW> hi
<JaneW> ogra: I am amending the license on our wiki and u/l our wall papers to the art site
<ogra> great :)
<jsgotangco> guys im almost done with About Edubuntu i will just fix the xslt script so we'll have an HTML by tommorow or unless ogra is willing to use xml docbook for yelp?
<JaneW> I'm stuck...
<jsgotangco> hmmm looks good
<jsgotangco> ogra, do you happen to have release notes just in case?
<jsgotangco> or is there still a need?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'll write some... but dont have anything yet
<jsgotangco> ok no rush if you want to, i can just merge them with About Ubuntu as a section
<ogra> hmm, we should incorporate art.ubuntu.com in the mozilla default page
<ogra> doesnt look like we'll have new icons in breezy :/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HumilityIcons
<JaneW> ok I u/led all wallpapers, they are awaiting approval/moderation
<JaneW> next time ppl must submit it themselves, so they can be listed as the designer. I had to put that in the notes this time.
<ogra> sigh http://www.linuxkongress.at/index.php?id=197
<JaneW> ogra: ?
<ogra> sharing one stage with jimbo wales and markus gamenius...
<ogra> (makes me feel small :) )
<jsgotangco> i felt so small during UDU
<ogra> heh
<ogra> but you're doing beig work here... no need to :)
<jsgotangco> come to think of it UDU felt like just a few weeks ago
<ogra> s/beig/big
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> ogra: ditto for you ^^^
<JaneW> ogra but you're doing beig work here... no need to :)
<ogra> yes, but these people are known... i'm fresh ...
<JaneW> cool
<ogra> they have a name ...
<JaneW> so you can surprise them
<ogra> hopefully :)
<JaneW> anyway you are Mark's replacement
<JaneW> so no pressure ;)
<jsgotangco> replacement
<JaneW> at LinuxKongress
<jsgotangco> hey you have doko with you
<ogra> ok, thats easy... i just have to swing back and forth while talking and and hit the palm of my one hand with the edge of the other.... and i need a cool dressup :)
<jsgotangco> Markus Gamenius -> skolelinux?
<JaneW> ogra: you need a shirt that says
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> 'I only date blondes'
<ogra> hehe
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> i'll ask mark if he borrows it to me :)
* JaneW lol at the pronunciation on the site
<jsgotangco> ogra, well i got to speak to 200 students last week...
<JaneW> vkipedia
<jsgotangco> and probably 300+ on linuxworld next week
<ogra> jsgotangco, i have no prob speaking to 1000 people.... if its not in german ...
<JaneW> does German have a W sound?
<jsgotangco> ekk
<ogra> sure... W
<jsgotangco> speaking in german you don't want?
<ogra> speaking german hard is 
<jsgotangco> even if you're already one?
<ogra> at least if you are completely used to use english for all technical stuff you do...
<jsgotangco> ah right
<jsgotangco> i can understand that if i speak in my native tongue
<ogra> i have to think about the right german meaning of the words all the time
<jsgotangco> at least in german you have some words translated already..it shows that your language is evolving as needed
<ogra> yes, but i tend to end up in cant mixing up german and english ... that doesnt leave a good impression to native german speakers :)
<jsgotangco> ahh
<ogra> i'll learn some german vocabulary during UBZ i think :)
<JaneW> ogra: speak in English then...?
<JaneW> ogra: Mark and I certainly would have
<JaneW> ogra: sorry I punted you as a Greman then ;)
<JaneW> I mean German
<JaneW> not Gremlin ;)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> lets see.. i'll look at my audience first...
<ogra> and decide then about the right lang
<JaneW> ogra: I had the same problem at varsity, I went to an Afrikaan speaking varsity (YUK)
<JaneW> but ended up knowing some technical terms only in afrikaans and had trouble knowing how to describe some things in english!
<ogra> but vat least that sounds funny :) 
<ogra> (for germans)
<jsgotangco> afrikaans
<jsgotangco> i haven't heard of afrikaans even once
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I hate it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: derived from Dutch, French etc etc and made up basically
<jsgotangco> ahhh like esperanto except it grew by itself
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we were forced to learn it in school, the 'old South Africa' was very much afrikaans run
<jsgotangco> at least you can use afrikaans
<jsgotangco> i was taught latin in school and nobody uses it except catholic priests
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it is surprisingly helpful for understanding Dutch, German, even Norwegian etc, but when spoekn no one else really understands it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: in it;s early days it was called 'kitchen dutch'
<JaneW> so it's a kind of bastardised version
<JaneW> or 'kombuis taal'
<jsgotangco> hmm just like french in some african states except that its not really french?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it's now one of our 11 official languages
<jsgotangco> 11?
<jsgotangco> wow
<JaneW> it used to be one of 2
<JaneW> yep 11
<jsgotangco> jeezz that's hard
<JaneW> although English is still the lingua franca
<jsgotangco> i understand that it must be history related that's why it grew to 11
<JaneW> yes most monority groups are now recognised
<JaneW> and if you go to court etc you are allowed to converse in your native language
<jsgotangco> and schools?
<JaneW> they will have a primary language
<JaneW> and will teach at least one other
<JaneW> so you'll be taught in say English
<JaneW> and then may learn Afrikaans or zulu or xhose too
<jsgotangco> the remaining language doesn't seem useful outside though
<JaneW> (and then there's ALSO French, Itialian, German, Latin etc as options in high school)
<JaneW> no but with many illiterate ppl here, you have to respect their lanaguage
<JaneW> it's the only way some can communicate
<JaneW> for instance I think one of the lagunages is San (or what ever their language is called)
<JaneW> which is the Koi San 'bushman' language
<JaneW> it's all some of them can speak
<jsgotangco> to be honest, the only thing i knew about ZA back then was the movie called The Gods must be Crazy
* jsgotangco hides
<jsgotangco> but now we have Charlize Theron so its much better
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> yes, and Mark Shuttleworth :P
<JaneW> and Nelson Manadela
<jsgotangco> i'd rather see Charlize naked than the two
<JaneW> LOL
<JaneW> jsgotangco: no doubt you have (if you have seen any of her movies)
<JaneW> South Africa has 11 official languages: Afrikaans, English, Zulu, Xhosa, Swati, Ndebele, Southern Sotho, Northern Sotho, Tsonga, Tswana, and Venda. In this regard it is second only to India in number. 
<JaneW> The country also recognises eight non-official languages: Fanagalo, Lobedu, Northern Ndebele, Phuthi, South African Sign Language, Khoe, Nama and San. These non-official languages may be used in certain official uses in limited areas where it has been determined that these languages are prevalent. Nevertheless, their populations are not as such that they require nationwide recognition.
<JaneW> ok so San is not an official language (it's too small)
<jsgotangco> South African Sign Language?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yep *shrug*
<JaneW> jsgotangco: again in court you could request to be addressed in that manner...
<jsgotangco> heh what a nice legal loophole
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> Many white South Africans also speak other European languages, such as Portuguese, German, and Greek, while many Asians and Indians in South Africa speak languages such as Gujarati and Telugu.
<JaneW> that's why we are called the rainbow nation :)
<jsgotangco> what are most asians there? chinese?
<JaneW>     * African/Black79.0 percent
<JaneW>     * White9.6 percent
<JaneW>     * Coloured8.9 percent
<JaneW>     * Indian/Asian2.5 percent
<JaneW> no there are indian, malay, chinese
<JaneW> far more indian that chinese though
<jsgotangco> ahh
<JaneW> lots of hindu Indians in Durban
<JaneW> Cape Town has more Moslem/Malay ppl
<JaneW> and Chinese are probably more concentrated around JHB and the centre of the country
<JaneW> historically groups were brought in to buidl railways etc
<jsgotangco> most of the people from british colonies prefer to go to british influenced lands
<jsgotangco> i was reading some stuff from wikitravel about cape town and it still has some warnings not to go to townships as much as possible especially if you obviously look different
<JaneW> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_africa
<JaneW> pretty interesting
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it's about being sensible
<JaneW> I have been into towships several times
<JaneW> but it does depend how it's done
<jsgotangco> right you can get assaulted anywhere anyways
<jsgotangco> 3 capitals?
<JaneW>  they object to fancy airconditioned tour busses coming to stare and the dissappear again
<JaneW> we went on a really interesting township 'crawl'
<JaneW> local tour operator, who lives in the area
<JaneW> and donates a percentage back to that commnity
<JaneW> and everyone was very friendly and warm to us
<JaneW> we had a wonderful time
<JaneW> yes 3 capitals
<JaneW> there were 4 before I think
<jsgotangco> what the
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hmm
<JaneW> including Pietermaritzburg
<jsgotangco> there seems to be a country inside ZA
* jsgotangco looking at the map
<JaneW> each of the 4 provicnces had a capital and they could decide which was THE capital so they all got responsibilities
<jsgotangco> Lesotho?
<JaneW> yes there are several
<JaneW> Lesotho, Swaziland
<jsgotangco> gyahh just invade them :)
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> swaziland
<jsgotangco> it was in our foreign news
<jsgotangco> 50,000 bare breasted virgins parade before the king
<JaneW> oh right the others were 'homelands; and are now part of SA again
<JaneW> jsgotangco: that's the one
<JaneW> jsgotangco: highest per capita rate of HIV infections in the world... scary!
<jsgotangco> ohh
<jsgotangco> forget the invasion then
<JaneW> we are a peace loving nation
<JaneW> we don;t invade ppl
<JaneW> (pointed look over at the states)
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> I'll stop now befire I get myself into hot water ;)
<jsgotangco> over here we have a big problem on some small rocks
<jsgotangco> everyone in the region is claiming part or whole
<jsgotangco> its called the spratleys =)
<JaneW> we have that here too
<JaneW> land redistribution
<jsgotangco> not as big as the spratleys i bet
<JaneW> where land was taken away from native ppl
<JaneW> and now they are claining it back
<JaneW> claiming
<jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratley_Island
<JaneW> lunch time
<jsgotangco> i gotta go for dinner
<jsgotangco> later
<magnon> finally
<magnon> managed to download the i386 iso and burn it correctly :P
<highvoltage> JaneW: PONG
<JaneW> highvoltage: hello, I already did what I was going to ask you to do... :P
<JaneW> highvoltage: I u/led all the edubuntu wall papers to http://art.ubuntu.com/
<JaneW> what's up with coolio?
<highvoltage> i think coolio is cool.
<JaneW> highvoltage: no I mean he msges me, says he wants to speak, then makes me wait like 3 hours cos he;s in a meeting, then says right meeting's over, speak later and disconnects...?
<highvoltage> ok. i'll pvt message you :)
<JaneW> k
<JaneW> highvoltage: rem your nick must be registerd to PM
<highvoltage> aaah! i wasn't identified. so you didn't get any of the 15 lines of crap that i just typed :) thank God for history!
<JaneW> hehe
<JaneW> luckilly I warned you before you wrote a whole eassy ;)
<JaneW> LOL I finally saw the DebConf Suttleworth-Zimmerman band footage
<JaneW> all I can say is they should NOT give up their day jobs!
<JaneW> http://people.debian.org/~bubulle/tmp/?D=A
<JaneW> LMAO...
<JaneW> <silbs> Can I borrow your laptop a second?
<JaneW> <helen@TSF> You're not going to install any of that Open Source shit on it are you?
<mpt> haha
<highvoltage> JaneW: which channel was that?
<JaneW> on the quotes page
<JaneW> not sure when/where it was said
<highvoltage> hmmm... where's the quotes page again?
<JaneW> it's on the canonucal wiki
<magnon> canon-nuke-all!
* highvoltage will deal with helen later
<highvoltage> cheers all!
<ogra> JaneW, ping from flint in -meeting :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Sept 7 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | TEST OUR LATEST CD ! see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting many improvements have been made
#edubuntu 2006-09-04
<Amaranth> LaserJock: working on an alacarte release
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ah
<BoneHead> what would cause a ide_intr: huh? expected NULL when trying to boot to the livecd?
<bddebian> Hello
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian, LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Corey
<bddebian> Hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2006-September/000052.html
<bddebian> Burgundavia: Nice
<Burgundavia> another week done
* Burgundavia is tired
<Amaranth> whatever happened to safety boat?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<DrkLrd> RichEd, ping
<highvoltage> cbx33: wb
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> I'm off again now
<cbx33> bbs
<RichEd> hi hi
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<Burgundavia> cbx33: having fun with pessulus?
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia 
<cbx33> Burgundavia: yeh
<cbx33> evenmore fun now
<cbx33> I've noticed a problem
<cbx33> but I've made an ugly hack
<cbx33> when editing keys, for a different user, it saves them as root
<cbx33> with permission 700
<cbx33> grrrr
<Burgundavia> right, that is fun
<cbx33> so I added a subprocess to chown themall back to the user after its finished
<cbx33> that's the ugly hack
<cbx33> but at the moment I can't see a way round it
<Burgundavia> well, pessulus should be able to edit any users keys
<RichEd> hi cbx33 hello Burgundavia 
<RichEd> cbx33: what time did we agree today ?
<cbx33> RichEd: well
<cbx33> I'm free whenever you are
<cbx33> like from now
<cbx33> it's first day back at aschool
<cbx33> so pretty hectic
<cbx33> but they are all in a meeting now
<cbx33> so it's prety quiet
<RichEd> I need to dig though mail ... some from the boss man need attention ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> just gimme a shout dude !
<RichEd> I'm tryng to set up a meeting with Jonon Bacon ...
<cbx33> Burgundavia: well, it needs to for pessulus !
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> for SCP
<cbx33> RichEd: excellent
<RichEd> cbx33: jono & I will probably do 1:00 pm your time ...
<RichEd> so can we aim for 2:00 pm your time for you & me ?
<cbx33> um....
<cbx33> 2pm...
<cbx33> should be good
<cbx33> my time
<cbx33> 5 hours away?
<cbx33> Burgundavia: SCP has the ability to lockdown a specific user, and so I need the ability to edit their keys
<RichEd> yep
<RichEd> I'll try to mail charles masters as well before that.
<cbx33> I'm patching pessulus in association with vuntz
<Burgundavia> yep
<cbx33> RichEd: cool
<cbx33> but it's proving to give me the same problem as just running it as another user which is what I did ogirnally through sux !
<cbx33> but sux doesn't work on LTSP
<cbx33> I hope vuntz/ogra/pitti will approve the chowning plan
<cbx33> as it's the only way I can see to get it to work
<Burgundavia> cbx33: you need a better hackergotchi
<Burgundavia> hey ogra
<ogra> hi
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<cbx33> Burgundavia: you don;t like it ? :(
<Burgundavia> it is not in the 
<Burgundavia> "Planet style"
<Burgundavia> bloody keyboard, with the bloody shift too near the bloody enter
<cbx33> sorry Burgundavia 
<cbx33> I'll get it fixed
<cbx33> Ubuntu-Demon has a weird one too
<Burgundavia> cbx33: don't apologize
<Burgundavia> I would love for him to change it
<cbx33> i don;t like my whole face though :p
<cbx33> ogra: had an interesting development on the whole pessulus front
<cbx33> if you have a secI'd love to bring you up to speed
<cbx33> ping ogra, vuntz has given me the go ahead to repackage and apply the patch to pessulus
<cbx33> once I have it complete, seeing as he'll be really busy with gnome for the wednesday release
<ogra> cool, prepare a package and i'll upload it
<cbx33> ogra: I've had to do a bit of an ugly hack
<ogra> if vubtz is fien with it thats ok for me
<cbx33> pessulus is great but still ended up with the same problem as before, the gconf files it created were owned by root
<ogra> *vuntz
<cbx33> and chmodded to 700
<cbx33> so the normal user couldn't read them
<cbx33> to pessulus, upon completing the gconfwrite chowns it
<cbx33> as it's root it's able to
<cbx33> vuntz said it's not ideal but it's an acceptable solution
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> i know sabayon does some file copying
<cbx33> probably for the same reason
<cbx33> so SCP, should be ready to go tonight from my end
<cbx33> the only thing we're lacking is VNC at the mo
<ogra> i'll try to find some time by the end of the week for that ... but no promises
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll do my best to sort somthing out 
<Burgundavia> cbx33: sabayon creates a zip that is then pulled down by the user
<cbx33> but I'm pretty pushed for time at the mo
<ogra> same here ...
<cbx33> Burgundavia: yeh, thought it must do something
<cbx33> ogra: I know
<cbx33> I understand
<cbx33> has the spec actually been approved yet?
<ogra> mdz is still on vacation ... 
<cbx33> :S
* highvoltage didn't know robots go on vacadtion
<highvoltage> *vacation
<Burgundavia> well, mdz does sing better than most robots
<jsgotangco> RichEd: ping?
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco in a meeting with jono ... open dialogue and write your message ... i'll flip over when space permits
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> RichEd: just want to tell you I started today but nothing much exciting happened but will do so in the coming days
<RichEd> cbx33 : jello jello ? ping ping ?
<cbx33> pingpong
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> jello jello pong pong
<RichEd> no problem ... how are you looking ... busy busy or 30 mins to chat & think ?
<cbx33> yeh I'm cool to chat
<RichEd> okay ... give me 5 ... then look out for a window
<cbx33> I can see 2 windows already
<cbx33> more than I had in my old office
* RichEd advises cbx33 to stop with the drinking already ...
<cbx33> heheh
<RichEd> But good news ... had a great chat right now with Jono Bacon ...
<cbx33> excellent
<RichEd> He does not need to have his arm twisted to help with Education ...
<cbx33> heheh
<RichEd> The man has been thinking and plotting as part of his personal passion ... and is looking for an outlet for that energy.
<cbx33> w00t
<RichEd> And brings some good education contacts ... for the past 3 years, the client base that he's been consulting and advising to has included schools and education departments
<RichEd> so it is real world and not speculative.
* RichEd is very excited
<cbx33> that is excellent
<cbx33> culd tie into what we talked about before
<RichEd> correction, that is most excellent
<RichEd> everything is connected
<cbx33> how does fabulous grab you?
<RichEd> The Grand Unified Theory of Everything is certainly not based on proprietary software.
<RichEd> :)
<cbx33> hehehe
<RichEd> 1 phone call and then I am ready cbx33 
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> I'm just munching so I'm ready whenever
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx331
<rodarvus> !
<rodarvus> :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> rodarvus: I think I pretty much solved the SCP Pessulus problem
<cbx33> we're good to go
<rodarvus> nice!
<cbx33> just VNC to do and we're finished
<rodarvus> what did you had to do?
<RichEd> hi rodarvus : got time to read an email over a coffee ? mobile eductation ?
<rodarvus> sure, please send it to me
<cbx33> rodarvus: well I had to make a bit of an ugly hack
<cbx33> seeing as the gconf functions in glib only write files in engine mode, with root as the owner
<cbx33> so I've had to get pessulus to chown the files after it completes
<cbx33> vuntz and ogra are ok with it, so...I am too !
<rodarvus> heh :)
<cbx33> rodarvus: I'm not quite sure what is left to do on VNC, but I told ogra I'd have a look
<rodarvus> I don't think vnc is supposed to be something hard - probably just making sure it runs securely (ie, with some basic authentication, etc)
<rodarvus> might be somewhat of a challenge, though
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> it may been some modificatio to the x11vnc pacakge ogra said
<cbx33> brb 2 mins RichEd 
<ogra> it needs to get an initscript and needs to read a password dynamically ...
<ogra> additionally we need to determine the best compression options to transfer an 800x600@16 screen
<rodarvus> ogra, would you recommend that to be done on an extra -ltsp package, or on the x11vnc package itself?
<ogra> in the x11vnc package ...
<rodarvus> ogra, oh, I can help with that part
* rodarvus hacked vnc sources for a while in the past
<ogra> make the initscript silently die if /etc/ltsp_chroot doesnt exists
<ogra> so we make sure that mode runs only on ltsp clients
<rodarvus> chosing the appropriate vnc protocol features is a matter of latency and processor speed
* ogra smiles at his first selected xfce session started by the new session selector in ldm :)
<rodarvus> :)
<rodarvus> Hooray!
<cbx33> rodarvus: you gem
<ogra> rodarvus, yep, but we need defaults for the start ...
<rodarvus> ogra, indeed
<cbx33> think we can get VNC working for FF? 
<cbx33> i think ogra said it's 90% done on the SCP side didn't you?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> try it
<cbx33> just need to read the passwords
<cbx33> am I right?
<rodarvus> cbx33, that should be reasonably easy if you have 4-6 hours to spare (at most, I think)
<ogra> (it has its rough edges ... and surely needs to be ported to a proper subprocess implementation)
<cbx33> rodarvus: cool
<ogra> i likely used popen or something similar evil
<cbx33> hang on if I have 4-6 hours ? ;)
<cbx33> ogra: you naughty chap !
<cbx33>  brb
<ogra> well, its faster ;)
<ogra> hmm, the .dmrc part wont work for ldm ...
<ogra> at least not easy
<ogra> WOAH
* ogra is able to use composite in xfce 
<ogra> on a thin client!
<highvoltage> really?
<highvoltage> ogra: you shouldn't have said that out loud, now people will *pest* you for howtos and support :-P
<ogra> i'm not sure its not only using fake composition ... and the client has 128M and 533MHz
<ogra> well, i just checked the checkbox in the settings manager
<ogra> thats all for the howto ;)
<ogra> woah
<ogra> even opacity works
<ogra> well, sloppy focus gets a bit slow with it ...
* highvoltage thinks it's probably real
<jsgotangco> hey guys how are you all doing?
<ogra> busy as hell :)
<jsgotangco> oh me too :/
<rodarvus> ogra, Composition is only dependant on the video driver you are using
<jsgotangco> but should be bearing big fruits soon
<rodarvus> if it supports it, you should be all set :)
<cbx333> hi RichEd sorry
<cbx333> i'll  be back asap
<ogra> rodarvus, thats the funny stiff a) i dont have access to /dev/dri/* on the client and b) i'm using a non 3D card on the client
<ogra> *stuff
<RichEd> no problem .. sending an email to ogra ... ping when back
<ogra> i think its faked ... but impressingly fast for that 
<rodarvus> ogra: oh, this is unexpected, then :)
<rodarvus> how come you don't have access to /dev/dri on the client?
<ogra> because the session is running on the server :)
<ogra> so a compositing manager would only have access to /dev/dri on the server ...
<cbx33> ogra: WOW composite in a thin client
<rodarvus> right, but there is a kernel and a X server running on the client, isn' it?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> ogra: is this on XFCE?
<cbx33> sorry I just read above
<cbx33> WOW
<ogra> but doesnt the compositing manager need the direct access ?
<ogra> (i mean thats what DRI stands for, doesnt it ?)
<rodarvus> it needs the Composite extension, which runs on the client
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<ogra> rodarvus, ah, as an x module ... right
<rodarvus> ogra, are you sure this thin client doesn't have the Composite extention? it could have, if its stuff from 3-4 to now
<ogra> well, the chroot is a week old or so ... 7.1 should be installed ...
<ogra> but i have a slight keyboard prob here and cant switch to console to check logs :/
<rodarvus> yeah, I know that :) I was asking about the video board you have on this thin client
<jsgotangco> cbx33: thank you for the mention in your blog, the pleasure is mine ;)
<ogra> i think trident cyberblade or something like that
<ogra> nothing with nifty 3D features, there i'm sure
<cbx33> jsgotangco: you deserve it :p
<ogra> hmm the restart/shutdown buttons apprea slightly evil in xfce ...
<ogra> *appear
<rodarvus> ogra, actually, the Composite extension is not 3D. you just need acceleration support (via either XAA or EXA) implemented on the video driver, and a few extra hooks to support Composite, on this same driver
<ogra> ah
<ogra> XAA should be there 
<cbx33> ahh cool rodarvus
<rodarvus> its more about if your driver is well supported on X.Org ;)
<cbx33> ogra: is getting xfce running easy
<ogra> installing xfce4-session xfdesktop4 xfwm4 was al i did ...
<ogra> *all
<RichEd> hi ogra ... I've sent the Edulinux email ... Can we make a time for Wednesday to dig deeper ? ... You can suggest a time via email.
<ogra> before or after the edubuntu meeting i'D say
<ogra> its an EC meeting so if we have applicants it might be a longer one ... 
<RichEd> before then ... say at the top of the hour 11:00 UTC ?
<ogra> sounds fine
<cbx33> oh shute 
<cbx33> I have minutes to do for the last two weeks
<cbx33> I said I'd never let that happen again
<cbx33> damn pessulus and SCP
<rodarvus> cbx33, slacker :)
<cbx33> :(
* cbx33 cries
<ogra> hmm, right, composite and firefox scrolling dont really like each other :)
<ogra> gets pretty slow ...
<cbx33> :(
<capt_kirk> Hi all.  Newbie question on LTSP server.  I have it all up and running with a server and two thin clients in a test suite.  (Nice distro, by the way!)  
<capt_kirk> The problem is that the clients or the server "forget" how to do the graphical login after a while.
<capt_kirk> They always get an IP address from dhcpd and show the Ubuntu splash, but when it should get the gdm-like login, it goes to a tty screen
<capt_kirk> If I reboot the server, all is fine again for a while and I can login from the thin clients, but then after a while they forget again.
<capt_kirk> It seems like a timer is expiring, but I can't think what it would be.
<cbx33> capt_kirk: I have experienced that too
<ogra> no, its a bug
<capt_kirk> It's not dhcpd, because they're getting the kernel.  And I don't think it's sshd
<cbx33> ogra: ahhh
<capt_kirk> ahh.  is it documented?
<cbx33> is it fixable?
<ogra> check if you have the graphica login if you hit alt-f7 after booting
<capt_kirk> I'll be happy to document it if it's not, but I didn't want to enter a bug without checking here.
* cbx33 is going to make a "tired of paying for you software" poster for his office
<cbx33> LD
<jsgotangco> lol
<cbx33> Hopefully I can give out some more CD's
<capt_kirk> ogra, I didn't see one that looked like it in the bug list, but I may have missed it.
<ogra> might be that ther is no bug filed yet
<cbx33> I'm curious guys...on the side of my box when it arrived were the product codes for edubuntu/ubuntu/kubuntu CD's
<cbx33> and also one for stickers
<ogra> its a usplash problem with the login manager
<cbx33> but I also saw some other product codes....
<cbx33> anyone know what those items are ?
<capt_kirk> ogra, thanks will check for alt-f7.
<ogra> usplash needs to be down before the login manager starts up
<ogra> on slow client that somethimes fails ...
<cbx33> ogra: can we put a wait/check in there?
<ogra> no, doesnt work
<capt_kirk> ogra: ahh, yeah, they're fairly slow clients
<cbx33> is usplash a process?
<ogra> but you can enable sound as a workaround... that somehow makes it magically go away
<cbx33> or is it pre init?
<cbx33> hahah
<capt_kirk> although not too slow.  celeron 1.2 GHz
<jsgotangco> whoa
<capt_kirk> only 128 MB RAM
* jsgotangco just played with upstart
<cbx33> capt_kirk: mine are about the same benchmark
<cbx33> upstart?
<ogra> jsgotangco, and did it wipe your HD yet ? :P
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you haven't been reading Keybuk's blogs aren't you ;)
<cbx33> is it on planet?
<ogra> yep
* cbx33 checks :p
<capt_kirk> ogra: I have sound enabled in lts.conf, is that the right way to try it?
<jsgotangco> its very very crackful
<ogra> but read it on the fridge rather 
<ogra> capt_kirk, yes
<capt_kirk> thanks.
<ogra> but first check if its really that with the alt-f7 check
<cbx33> ogra: why so?
<jsgotangco> if it zones out on you, you won't know what hit you
<ogra> cbx33, its impressing that you missed it ... it was on all german online media at least :)
<capt_kirk> it doesn't do its magic on my system.  let me go over to the lab to see if alt-f7 work.  I'll log back in from there.
<cbx33> alright alright...
* cbx33 is dumb :p
<ogra> nah
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> just to busy ;)
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> impressive that we may have VNC working
<ogra> i would have missed it too if i wouldnt work closely with keybuk
<cbx33> we could get that entire spec completed
<jsgotangco> its something that you can say "earth-shaking"
* ogra doesnt ave much time to read online news
<ogra> (not even planet)
* cbx33 reads planet and that's about it
<jsgotangco> meh just use rss feeder
<jsgotangco> i just look at entries that fancies me
<jsgotangco> it just so happened keybuk has been writing some great stuff lately
<ogra> lately ? 
<ogra> he always writes great stuff :)
<ogra> (code i mean)
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> so upstart does????
<ogra> replace init and sysvinit
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> WOW
<ogra> its pretty scary
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> like i said, its earth-shaking
<cbx33> totally
<ogra> but seems to work
<cbx33> I guess I should take more time to see what's going on :(
<jsgotangco> it replaces a grand 3+ decades of work
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> *bah* - I need a new job
<ogra> but i fear ltsp will suffer hard from it in edgy
<jsgotangco> i bet
<cbx33> how so?
<ogra> since i wont have the time to fix every breakage caused by it
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> is it going into edgy then?
<ogra> we remove a ton of startup links for services
<ogra> (in ltsp)
<cbx33> :S
<ogra> i'm not yet sure upstart wil respect that
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> that could give us a 2 minute boot or longer ...
<jsgotangco> its already in edgy (in universe)
<jsgotangco> but there's a roadmap
<jsgotangco> we'll probably just see it sooner than we think
<jsgotangco> it'll make all ubuntu books obsolete bwahaha
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> very earth shattering
* cbx33 will one day write something eather shattering.... - (I hope)
<cbx33> s/eather/earth
<cbx33> it's just having the time
<rodarvus> I'm using upstart on my laptop, boots quite quickly already
<rodarvus> (and outputs no message during boot, creepy)
<rodarvus> ogra, otoh, upstart is meant to be a non-instrusive replacement for sysvinit for edgy
<rodarvus> and if it doesn't, its a bug.
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> bbl guys
<jsgotangco> anyhow im not using it yet, i dont have enough machines
<nai> i find this weird... when im using the live cd of edubuntu on my laptop the internet works without doing anything but when i finally installed it the net wont totally work. im really new to linux
<nai> anyone who can help? 
<neenaoffline> nai: what sort of net connection do you have ?
<nai> dsl.... it seems that the ethernet card is not detected....its a pcmcia
<cbx33> ogra, my excellent patch won't work
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> as they are written afterwards
<neenaoffline> nai: why don't you try #ubuntu
<neenaoffline> nai: we don't have DSL at our place much :(
<neenaoffline> nai: India
<nai> ic... well thanks for your effort
<nai> though is it possible that you know how will my ethernet card be detected as eth0 not lo
<capt_kirk> cbx33: The alt-f7 trick worked for me.  I was able to restore the graphical login on the thin client with it.  I'll watch for ogra and feed that back to him.
<cbx33> ok
<nai> neena: can you show me how do i determine what drivers are loaded for a specific device...? because when i use the live cd it can detect my lancard but when i boot using the installed one it cant detect it so i will try to figure it out with the live cd configurtion
<cbx33> i'll be here probably most of the evening, so I can feed it back if you go
<capt_kirk> thanks.
<capt_kirk> second newbie question, I'm trying to plan how I'll manage users across three or four labs (with a LTSP server in each lab due to number of computers and distance between labs).  Same users.  I'd like to only create them once and let them have one /home/user/ folder that is accessible from all of the labs.  I've done a quick look, but haven't found documentation on how to easily do that with...
<capt_kirk> ...Edubuntu.  Is there an easy solution documented that someone could point me to?  Thanks.
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: I suggest you use ldap.
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: or a common ltsp server
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: a common ltsp server is an easier to setup and maybe even cheaper
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: however ldap is better for common authentication tasks. which is not only limited to ltsp
<capt_kirk> lucasvo: thanks.  I've thought about common ltsp, but we'll end up with about 50 computers spread across 4 buildings.  I'm concerned about the load on one server for that
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: I haven't set up a big lab for now. however there are people who did this. I think the scalability isn't that bad
<capt_kirk> lucasvo: the buildings are 50-100 meters apart from each other. The lag on the ethernet is negligible, but how does LTSP perform under a 50-thin-client load?
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: infrastructure wise it's the same
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: if you have a common fileserver you also need a good wired connection
<capt_kirk> locasvo: good point
<capt_kirk> locasvo: and it would be easier to administer for the average school admin.
<lucasvo> yes
<capt_kirk> I'm working at a college in Tanzania for a year, and when I leave the network needs to be fairly easy to administer.  So, I may end up with the common LTSP option
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> you need about 13gb ram
<capt_kirk> locasvo: would you recommend gigabit between buildings, or should 100 MB be sufficient
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: gigabit for sure!
<capt_kirk> locasvo: thanks.
<capt_kirk> where did you get 13 Gb?  I've heard 128 MB as an upper requirement for each client, plus about 256 for the server, which equals about 7 GB.  Other places, I've seen that clients can really only need 50 MB.  Are you seeing a higher per-client requirement?  Thanks.
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: yeah, I have wrong numbers.
<lucasvo> capt_kirk: 6.4gb in the server
<capt_kirk> locasvo: whew, you scared me!  lol
<Amaranth> ack
<Amaranth> ogra hasn't started the final survey yet for SoC :/
<cbx33> Amaranth, is willow finished?
<cbx33> ogra is swamped
<Amaranth> it'll probably take a year to be "finished" :P
<cbx33> well u know what i mean
<Amaranth> well, hopefully today i'll have a new package that isn't broken :)
<cbx33> woohoo
<cbx33> that'll please LaserJock
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> he helped :)
<cbx33> excellent
<Amaranth> nice blog post, btw
<cbx33> he's a good lad
<cbx33> thanx
<cbx33> Amaranth, you should be on that list
* cbx33 edits
<Amaranth> eek
<Amaranth> *blushes*
<cbx33> done
<cbx33> it'll update when they poll next
<cbx33> hehe someone commented on my post
<cbx33> Wow lol. Perhaps I just read that wrong. Is their really a single point of authority and structured hierarchy? Sounds like a dictatorship, not a community.
<Amaranth> Is it in moderation or something? I wanted to reply to it. :)
<cbx33> I'll it is in moderation
<cbx33> I'll approve :D
<cbx33> done
<lucasvo> cbx33: would you be a potentual attendee to edubuntu summit 07 in zurich/switzerland ? :)
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> would depend on a) job at the time b) financial situation
<cbx33> but I'm definitely interested
<cbx33> why does X install withe the intl option set on the keyboard now?
<Amaranth> cbx33: post posted, can you fix my grammar errors before approving? :)
<cbx33> sure :p
<Amaranth> it's = its, i always do that
<Amaranth> hey ogra
<cbx33> Amaranth, no fixing needed :p
<cbx33> evening ogra 
<cbx33> pessulus patch idea No3 in operation
<cbx33> Amaranth, thanks for the comment
<lucasvo> cbx33: p1ps and I want to plan something. we're trying to get some ngo's, educational people and devs together in zurich.
<cbx33> lucasvo, i'd love to, but don't I'd be able to afford it at the moment
<Amaranth> cbx33: your blog looks like one of the blogger templates :P
<cbx33> ..... Amaranth slightly modified but yet
<cbx33> I did fading java buttons at the top
<cbx33> for the contact/about buttons
<Amaranth> oh, it is one of the blogger templates?
<cbx33> it's a template
<Amaranth> yeah, that's a nice touch
<cbx33> from the wodpress site
<Amaranth> i might have to steal that when i redo my blog some year
<cbx33> and the word cloud I modified
<cbx33> so you can get per blog clouds
<cbx33> oh and if you click on a word you see every post with that word in it
<cbx33> that's some thing new too
<rodarvus> ogra, I wonder what is the real reason for us to have the 'edubuntu' and 'edubuntu-testers' LaunchPad groups
<cbx33> AJAX my friend ! :D
<rodarvus> they seem like (weak) duplicates of edubuntu-members and ubuntu-qa
<capt_kirk> ogra: I tried the alt-f7 trick when the thin client gave me a tty screen, and it restored the graphical login.  The graphical login remained until I rebooted the thin client, when it needed another alt-f7 to kick-start it again.
<capt_kirk> ogra: Thanks for the tip.  Is there any way I can fix that with a script for now, or do I need to just put instructions by the thin clients for now?
<cbx33> pygi, hi
<pygi> hey ho cbx33 
<cbx33> I broke my patch on pessulus
<cbx33> but I found a way roudn it
<cbx33> damn gconf and it's delayed writing of keys
<pygi> :P
<cbx33> supprisingly gconftool-2 has no delay
<cbx33> but it's working well....
<cbx33> just gotta sort out mandatory keys
<cbx33> and I'll be finished with pessulus
<cbx33> Amaranth, http://www.progbox.co.uk/~cbx33co/
<cbx33> incase you're interested
<cbx33> not finished yet or live
<Amaranth> stop typing so i can click :P
<Amaranth> ack, epiphany froze
<cbx33> ooop on my site?
<cbx33> works fine in FF :S - wonder why that could be?
<Amaranth> i dunno
<cbx33> sorry Amaranth 
<Amaranth> it was totem
<cbx33> ah
<Amaranth> looks nice
<cbx33> ty
<EmxBA> hi everybody :)
<pygi> hey ho EmxBA 
<Burgundavia> pygi: have you seen that debian has forked cdrtools as well?
<EmxBA> pygi:o_O :D
<pygi> Burgundavia, ofcourse
<Burgundavia> pygi: have you had a chance to sit down with the debian guy, so as not to end up with two forks?
<pygi> Burgundavia, what exactly am I forking? I ain't forking cdrtools :P
<Burgundavia> libburn?
<pygi> Burgundavia, that's my upstream project, yes
<Burgundavia> anyway
<pygi> that has nothing to do with cdrtools/cdrkit 
<Amaranth> oh, you're the fork of libburn they were talking about
<pygi> Amaranth, who? what? why? no forks :P
<Amaranth> pygi: in the cdrtools thread on debian-devel they said there was an original libburn and a forked version, the forked version started with 'py', i think
<pygi> Amaranth, right :)
<pygi> http://libburn.pykix.org
<Burgundavia> I thought they filled the same niche
<Amaranth> yeah, that's the forked one
<Amaranth> is that yours?
<pygi> yes, but that isn't fork :P
<pygi> whatever :)
<Burgundavia> regardless, it doesn't make sense for many forks/rewrites out there
<pygi> Burgundavia, don't worry, I am in constant connection with debian folks anyway, doesn't matter that this isn't related :P
<pygi> Burgundavia, oki, so libburn is library, cdrkit cdrecord fork isn't
<pygi> cdrecord && mkisofs code is very bad, humans can't read it in any possible way :P
<Amaranth> *shudder*
<pygi> Amaranth, what? :)
<Amaranth> cdrecord code
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<pygi> sbalneav, !!!
<pygi> I need you, you have time?
<sbalneav> Hey pygi
<sbalneav> Yep, sure do
<pygi> sbalneav, so have you sorted that iscsi suggestions mess? :P
<sbalneav> Not yet, no.  I was working on more localdev stuff this weekend.
<pygi> sbalneav, oki, please sort out what we should use pls :)
<sbalneav> Alright, I'll try to do some thinking on it today.
<pygi> sbalneav, thanks
<pygi> sbalneav, once we should start writing spec
<sbalneav> Hm!
<sbalneav> I can't seem to <ctrl><alt><f1> to another vty with eft-2
<sbalneav> On a thin client.
<sbalneav> Makes it hard to debug :(
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<LaserJock> nice blog post
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> how are you?
<TeePOG> good evening
<LaserJock> cbx33: fine
<cbx33> good good
<TeePOG> can anyone please tell me which usergroup[s]  a user has to belong to, in order to login over the terminal server?
<LaserJock> TeePOG: I don't think it takes a usergroup
<LaserJock> oh wait, nvm, I don't really know
<LaserJock> I was thinking you were saying ssh rather than LTSP
<TeePOG> well, on my own username [created during installation]  i can login, but any other users i've created since, it does nothing
<TeePOG> oh ok LaserJock
#edubuntu 2006-09-05
<TeePOG> are there no forums for edubuntu?
<pygi> cbx33, poke?
<pygi> TeePOG, just use ubuntu forums
<cbx33> pygi, ouch
<pygi> cbx33, thank you also ^_^ (/me just read the planet)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> np
<TeePOG> pygi: all it says is "there will be an edubuntu forum when Dapper releases"... I've been using dapper since 2 days after release and still no forums
<pygi> TeePOG, heh, poke the people :)
<TeePOG> yah
<pygi> TeePOG, as cbx33 told: tell them: somebody will "shoot you down"
<pygi> cbx33, :))))
<TeePOG> all i need is to hear about the terminal server
<cbx33> pygi, hehehe
<TeePOG> and the ltsp.org people are no help, the ubuntu ltsp "isn't a standard implementation"
<pygi> TeePOG, muecow :)
<TeePOG> mmmkay thanks pygi, i seem to have missed that... is that what the ubuntu ltsp is called?
<pygi> TeePOG, that's just implementation, not "ubuntu ltsp"
<TeePOG> ah
<TeePOG> shorthand
<TeePOG> sorry
<cbx33> grrrr
<cbx33> gconf is still playing me around
<pygi> cbx33, you'll learn :)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I have to learn before thursday
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<pygi> sbalneav, poke you again? :)
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> where the hell is it picking these settings up from
<sbalneav> pygi: Hello
<pygi> sbalneav, so I left before...but once we get that iscsi stuff we could start writing the spec
<sbalneav> Well, most of the iSCSI stuff I've found so far talks about the kernel talking to an iSCSI device.
<sbalneav> I haven't as yet found a userspace lib that allows a program to behave like an iSCSI device.
<pygi> sbalneav, ahm, so that means we would need to develop it?
<sbalneav> :) Well, "other" cd recording packages had it.  I'm sure there's got to be some sort of something out there that can do it, or at least a spec to see if it can be implemented.
<sbalneav> It's a pretty esoteric thing to do.
<pygi> ahm :P
<pygi> if we'll go to implement this in edgy+1 then we'll use stable 2.x series
<pygi> in edgy+2 we'll use unstable 0.3.x series
<pygi> ergh, I meant 0.2.x series in first sentence :)
<pygi> 0.3.x will feature dvd support, -tao, and -multi I hope
<LaserJock> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> don't say my name! :/
<Amaranth> it made xchat-gnome freeze
<pygi> Amaranth, lol
<Amaranth> eek
<Amaranth> oh, i'm still here
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> :-)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> age of empires 2 distracted me from my willowng hacking
<Amaranth> i've got customizable error messages now :)
<LaserJock> do you have a working package then?
<Amaranth> haven't checked :P
<Amaranth> when is that distro being released?
<LaserJock> 10th
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> will look after i finish this stuff
<LaserJock> ok, not a huge deal, but a working package is obviously nice for me :-)
<pygi> night
<hlabs> how can i setup a ftp server on edu
<LaserJock> hlabs: I'd guess by installing an ftp server :-)
<hlabs> yeah but which one
<hlabs> it compatible with edu
<LaserJock> I don't think it would really matter
<hlabs> can you suggest a ftp server. I want something gui that i easy to setup
<LaserJock> I really don't know, let me check something real quick
<LaserJock> hlabs: maybe try vsftpd
<hlabs> ok i installed it
<hlabs> but it doesnt show up in the app menu
<hlabs> why is that
<hlabs> so
<LaserJock> well, it's a server
<LaserJock> servers don't show up in the menu
<hlabs> so how can i configure it
<hlabs> i see no GUI
<LaserJock> look at /etc/vstfpd.conf
<hlabs> is there a GUI for this
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I don't know of any GUI for ftp servers
<LaserJock> I think vsftpd should be pretty easy to configure though
<hlabs> i cant seem to configure this contraption
<hlabs> how can i solve this problem, Cant write the new proftpd.conf here:
<hlabs>  /etc/proftpd.conf 
<hlabs> Run GProFTPD as root
<LaserJock> you need to put sudo in front of what you are doing
<LaserJock> you want to do proftpd instead of vsftpd?
<hlabs> see Gproftpd is a gui software. Its showing up in my app menu. But it says run as root
<hlabs> how can i do that
<LaserJock> in a terminal run "sudo gproftpd"
<hlabs> whats the command
<LaserJock> for what?
<LaserJock> to get a terminal?
<hlabs>  no no i mean inside the terminal
<hlabs> i type up sudo Gproftpd and there is an error
<LaserJock> "sudo gproftpd"
<hlabs> this is the error that i get now. (gproftpd:17441): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
<LaserJock> hmm, try "gksudo gproftpd" instead
<LaserJock> sorry, I'm not on my edubuntu machine so I might make a couple mistakes :-)
<hlabs> same error again. (gksudo:17640): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
<LaserJock> are you doing that on the machine you are currently on?
<hlabs> yup
<hlabs> nvm laserjock. I got the thing started
<LaserJock> ok, good
<hlabs> ok tell me something. I got the edu shared folder up and running i even setup the thing to work with samba
<hlabs> now the thing is how can i get windows to connect to it
<jsgotangco> well its that's the easy part, you just have to make your windows machine part of the workgroup
<hlabs> i did
<hlabs> but the win pc does not detect my edu pc
<hlabs> or its share
<hlabs> well
<hlabs> ...
<arkan0x> hello to all
<arkan0x> what is user/passwd of the schooltool ? for default ? 
<arkan0x> sorry for my english :S :(
<arkan0x> hehehe
<arkan0x> the user is : manager , the passwd is : schooltool 
<arkan0x> :P
<nai> hi new to linux anyone can show me how to install a driver package in tar?
<LaserJock> nai: you will probably have better luck on #ubuntu
<LaserJock> nai: what driver are you installing?
<nai> for my lancard , the edubuntu os is in my laptop 
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't have any experience there
<LaserJock> #ubuntu has a lot more people so for generic questions like that you are probably better off asking there
<nai> i mean i jsut want make my internet work
<sbalneav> nai: What kind of lan card?
<sbalneav> Evening LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<nai> pcmcia
<nai> the brand is xircom 16bit ethernet + 56 modem
<sbalneav> What happens when you plug it in?  Do you get any kind of message at all?
<nai> none.... but i know for sure it works fine because i have windowsxp in that machine and it works
<sbalneav> Can you see if you have the pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils packages loaded?
<sbalneav> Perhaps the laptop isn't listening to the cardbus
<nai> where should i check if those packages are loaded? in synaptic
<sbalneav> Yes, in synaptic
<nai> yes it is loaded....i just find it weird...in administration>networking> the modem the dial up one is detectec butnot the ethernet. and it is named lo 
<sbalneav> Well, lo is the loopback, it's always there.
<sbalneav> Can you check the output of dmesg?
<sbalneav> sudo dmesg
<sbalneav> in a terminal
<sbalneav> that should tell us if the kernel's detecting the insert
<nai> i saw one.... pccard:PCMCIA card inserted into slot 0
<sbalneav> ok, so it sees the card
<sbalneav> try this: sudo ifconfig -a
<sbalneav> do you get an "eth0" entry?
<nai> no, lo and sit0
<nai> well when i go to device manager it can see my card but it says unknown manufacturer
<sbalneav> Hmm, have you activated it?
<nai> what do yoiu mean? 
<sbalneav> well, in the Networking manager, if the card is listed, have you Clicked on it to highlight it, then clicked on the "Activiate" button on the right hand side?
<sbalneav> Sorry, Activate
<nai> well in the networking manager, the only visible object there is thje modem ppp0 not the ether net card, i think it is for dialup beacause its asking for dial numbers
<nai> would installign a driver do the job?
<sbalneav> Oh, ok, sorry, I thought you meant it was in the device section of the network manager.
<nai> oh no, in device manager. jsut liek the one in win dows where it lists all the devices
<sbalneav> nai: Well, it's unlikely it came shipped with a linux driver.
<nai> i manage to download a driver from intels site
<nai> its in tar how do i install it
<sbalneav> I can't seem to find any information about this card, or what driver it's supposed to use.  I don't suppose you could tell me the model number.
<nai> i find it weird but i used kubuntu in that same machine and it worked without me even trying to do anything
<nai> its a xircom realport ethernet+modem56 REM56G-10
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> So, can you boot kubuntu?   That will tell us what driver it's loading. 
<sbalneav> Then we just need to sort out why the same driver doesn't get loaded in edubuntu.
<sbalneav> Err... you're not using an Edgy Eft version of edubuntu, are you?
<nai> no i had it uninstalled. because i opt for edubuntu for my little sister
<nai> edgy eft? how do i determine this?
<nai> ok i have a quesiton what if i uninstall edubuntu and replace it with kubuntu instead? can i still install gcompris in kubuntu?
<LaserJock> yeah, the programs all come from the same software repository
<LaserJock> so you can install Kubuntu and then install gcompris
<LaserJock> however, you will also have to install some libraries
<nai> well i gues that would be a lot better than no connectivity at all
<nai> i find it hard to trouble shoot since i do not have the technical know how
<nai> anyway will my partitions windows ones be mounted automatically by kubuntu?
<LaserJock> I'm not positive about that but it is pretty easy to set up (easier than what you are doing now)
<sbalneav> Hmm, sorry, was away for a bit.
<sbalneav> nai: Don't de-install just yet. I'll ask ogra tomorrow, he may know.
<ajayc> RichEd,ping
<ajayc> RichEd, ping
<RichEd> ajayc: pong
<ajayc> RichEd, edubuntu lost at Regional Expo
<ajayc> those bastards didnt understand
<ajayc> i said its free they said ' NO NO we KNow u will charge later'
<ajayc> they said its a publicity stunt
<RichEd> hi ajayc: please expand ... lost at Regional Expo ?
<RichEd> and who are the bastards ?
<RichEd> and can we mail them ?
<RichEd> Note that you have exposed them to something new ... not everyone learns or accepts things on the first contact ...
<ajayc> RichEd, those were the professors of Indian Institue Of Techonology
<ajayc> I was selected for regional science exhibition from my school
<ajayc> i went to showcase edubuntu there
<ajayc> we cant mail em
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<RichEd> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> just got your email
<RichEd> okay ?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> think there may be some more needed in the school one
<RichEd> that's why I asked an expert for input ... that's you :)
<cbx33> oooh, want me to reply via email?
<RichEd> Note also that different countries have different ICT structures. In .za, our LAB admin is usually a normal teacher, with the additional burden of an ICT responsibility.
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> well there is 
<cbx33> here at least
<RichEd> email is sticky ... #irc slows past like a stream ... so that's a yes
<RichEd> *flows
<cbx33> ICT Administrator, ICT Coordinator, Network Manager, 
<cbx33> but i do like that Student is on there as a target :D
<RichEd> Well count yourselves lucky : We have (real world example) a Biology Teacher who is also Lab Admin, who needs to run after school sports, fetch his own kids from a different school, and get back for evening school meals because he is a House Father in the hostel.
<RichEd> So, he does not have too much time for ICT as a hobby.
<cbx33> crikey
<cbx33> dedicated man
<RichEd> More like overworked man with compulsory job tasks ... not too much choice.
<cbx33> well, true
<RichEd> Note that the lumping of categories for Community groupings may differ from lumping of categories for Case Study / Advocay etc.
<jono> hey
<highvoltage> hey jono
<jono> hey highvoltage 
<jono> incidentally, edubuntu rocks :)
<highvoltage> yeah :)
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cbx33> RichEd: when did you want to meet today?
<RichEd> cbx33: can you send the email response today ... and then i'll refine it for advocacy ... and meet tomorrow before the meeting ?
<RichEd> we'll have something concrete to work on ?
<cbx33> yeh sure, now that my pessulus patch is complete :D
<cbx33> I should have a little more time 
<cbx33> I still have to finish up modifying SCP
<highvoltage> is it just me, or is this pushing the ubuntu trademark use out of CoC context:
<highvoltage> http://christianubuntu.blogspot.com/
<cbx33> highvoltage: hmmm....
<highvoltage> pygi: hey there
<pygi> RichEd, :)
<pygi> hey highvoltage, how are you?
<RichEd> hi pygi ...
<highvoltage> good thanks pygi. and you?
<pygi> highvoltage, I am fantastic, thanks for asking :)
<highvoltage> great! :)
<pygi> RichEd, were you working something on my presentation perhaps?
<pygi> at least a bit? :)
<pygi> highvoltage, I burned a dvd yesterday, several of them even :)
<cbx33> pygi: it's going well then?
<pygi> cbx33, always :)
<cbx33> and you're right
<cbx33> I did fix it, pessulus that is
<cbx33> so I'm good to go
<cbx33> just need to create the patch
<highvoltage> pygi: i read about debian's fork of cdrecord the other day, will they still include libburn?
<cbx33> highvoltage: yeh me too
<cbx33> I wondered how that would effect you pygi 
<pygi> highvoltage, well, they'll include libburn in repositories, yes
<pygi> the problem is that libburn umbrella project (libburn, libisofs, genisofs, cdrskin) will not be able to completely replace cdrecord in three months, and they need it for their release
<highvoltage> well, it's nice to see it's (libburn) is making such nice progress already
<pygi> true :)
* cbx33 is hoping that all the spec is completed on SCP
<cbx33> could even be by FF
<cbx33> :D
<pygi> highvoltage, I just want more competent devs, and community which has an application based on libburn & libisofs to test, report bugs
<cbx33> RichEd: did you managed to contact OpenForumEurope
<pygi> that's all :)
<RichEd> cbx33: busy with emails now .. will let you know
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hi jono, didnt see you there
<cbx33> ping ogra, pessulus is patched and all ready to go....:D
<cbx33> I'm just creating the package now :D
<ogra> cool
<cbx33> I hope to have an SCP version later
<ogra> we'll have to wait until the upload of the 2.16 package seb128 just did finished 
<cbx33> I have a lishgt problem....
<cbx33> 2.16 package of what?
<ogra> and please make sure to base on that one
<cbx33> pessulus?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> what has changed init?
<cbx33> in it
<ogra> no idea
<cbx33> hmmm....
<ogra> the changelog will tell i guess
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I'll have a word with him, 
<cbx33> I also need a change to /etc/gconf/2/path
<ogra> it was on -cahnges more than 1h ago so the source should already be available
<cbx33> so that mandatory keys for users works 
<cbx33> ok cool
<ogra> he usually puts the upstream changelog into the package ... so have a look there
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i hope this isn;'t goign to make it too difficult to patch
<cbx33> I have v2.16 here :D
<ogra> from the source package ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> it was just a sync
<RichEd> cbx33: I can find this stand on the BETT 2007 exhibitor search : MOODLE OPEN SOURCE SW60 but no OpenForum Europe ?
<cbx33> hmmm :(
<cbx33> maybe they can't afford it
<RichEd> http://www.bettshow.com/bett/exhibitorsearch.asp?ch=A&val=1 [open]  keyword brings up Moodle & SciTEK
<cbx33> sorry RichEd 
<cbx33> guess they can't afford it this year
<cbx33> ping rodarvus can I have a pm word?
<rodarvus> cbx33, sure
<jsgotangco> RichEd: thanks for the email, yeah that error is really embarrassing...its been there for weeks
<RichEd> :)
<jsgotangco> i could just dump drupal on that site and be done with it
<jsgotangco> RichEd: just for info, i've been given a free hand to think out of the box..like the next generation of education materials for the foundation with edubuntu as the foundation
<jsgotangco> errr edubuntu as the base rather
<RichEd> excellent ... that's what we want to hear
<jsgotangco> RichEd: so experiments are now welcome
<jsgotangco> i will send an email tomorrow
<RichEd> great ... I am also sending an email intro to sat-ed : John Hawker ... you can compare notes
<jsgotangco> we've bought Peso 3.2 Million worth of computers with no OS, i was told today
<jsgotangco> $1 USD = Philippine Peso 50
<DanielC> Hi all. Does anyone know who I should contact to ask what trademark licenses are acceptable to Ubuntu? Is there an "ubuntu-legal" team?
<RichEd> DanielC: You can mail Jane SIlber ... will give you her email in a pvt window
<DanielC> Thanks!
<Amaranth> ogra: apparently today is the deadline for final surveys for google
<ogra> Amaranth, whats the status of willowng ? is it done and ready for main inclusion by the end of the week ? 
<ogra> (friday is feature freeze)
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> it could be
<ogra> it would be nice if it could
<Amaranth> i've got the start of the code for custom blocked page handlers, just need to make that checkbox work
<cbx33> thurs is FF
<Amaranth> cbx33: eek
<jsgotangco> ogra: how do we go about in having our SoC pytest in universe?
<jsgotangco> REVU?
<ogra> i guess so
<ogra> did he deliver something useable ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> it actually worked on my test
<jsgotangco> let me give you the url
<cbx33> jsgotangco: nice
<cbx33> what does it do?
<jsgotangco> http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-education/
<Amaranth> Alright, I just told my ride for school I'm not going today, it's willowng day. :)
<jsgotangco> its a simple testing app
<ogra> Amaranth, great !
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> Amaranth: hahah great
<ogra> i'll do the survey then ... 
<Amaranth> the hardest thing we were doing in school today was timers in vb.net so it's no big loss (my school sucks)
<cbx33> Amaranth: i wish I was still a student
<cbx33> doing an SoC
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> Amaranth: had another comment on that blog post
<cbx33> about the community
<cbx33> I'm just about to reply
<cbx33> Hi sbalneav 
<Amaranth> cbx33: that guy looks disturbed :/
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'l writing my reply now
<jsgotangco> wow wonder what happened
<Amaranth> seriously, look at his blog
<Amaranth> i have a feeling he is not telling the whole story
<jsgotangco> "semi prominent hacker"
<jsgotangco> lol
<sbalneav> Who's blog is this?
<capt_kirk> ogra: would you like me to post a bug report for tracking the usplash problem on the thin clients, or do you already have it on your tracker?  I've written a short note next to the test computers for the users to know how to get around the problem, but it makes it hard to sell the the Dean as the best solution for our upcoming purchase.  Thanks.
<cbx33> Amaranth: I replied.....take a look
<cbx33> sbalneav http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
<ogra> capt_kirk, its solved in edgy ... but feel free to file a bug 
<cbx33> sbalneav: it's my blog :p
<capt_kirk> ok.  Thanks.  Still learning my way around the Ubuntu community.  What's the timeline for edgy's release?  6 months after dapper, so December?
<cbx33> didn't he hang out in our channel for a while? or was that another ryan?
<ogra> capt_kirk, oct
<capt_kirk> ogra: thanks
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hi again bddebian 
<sbalneav> Morning bddebian 
<bddebian> cbx33: :-)
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<cbx33> ogra: now I have finished the pessulus part
<cbx33> where do I upload it, what do I do with it
<cbx33> as it's going to main
<capt_kirk> ogra: Bug #59031: "Edubuntu LTSP Thin-Clients hang before graphical login"  Thanks
<ogra> thanks 1
<ogra> !
<cbx33> ogra: how do I put stuff to go into main?
<ogra> you need to write a main inclusion report, add it to the main inclusion queue on the wiki and notify pitti 
<cbx33> oh great!
<cbx33> it's just an update
<cbx33> do we still need to write the report for pessulus
<cbx33> we need to for SCP
<cbx33> do you have an exampol
<cbx33> =t~?;
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLtspfs
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue explainc the process at the top
<cbx33> thanks...am i right that we don;t need one for pessulus?
<ogra> its already in main
<hlabs> hey guys i need to add some files to the /opt folder. I need some help in doing so. Could you tell me how can i add files to the /opt folder . It says that i need to be root to do so
<ogra> hlabs, you mean into the client environment ?
<ogra> (for ltsp)
<sbalneav> ogra: get my /msg?
<ogra> i even answered :)
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<ogra> sbalneav, in knot 2 everything worked
<hlabs> no no 
<sbalneav> Hold on let me try again...
<ogra> (apart from small glitched like ltspfs not being installed )
<hlabs> i downloaded xammp i need to get it into the /opt folder
<ogra> *glitches
<ogra> hlabs, oh, you just want to install third party software ...
<hlabs> yeah 
<sbalneav> hmm, I'm not seeing you.  Fudge.
<ogra> right, then you need to use sudo to be able to write to /opt
<hlabs> yeah
<sbalneav> I'm using irssi.
<hlabs> how i get to do that
<ogra> sbalneav, i see you and answered again
<ogra> oh
<sbalneav> Are you registered>
<ogra> sbalneav, nm
<sbalneav> ?
<ogra> my registration failed somehow 
<sbalneav> :)
<hlabs> so how can i get the file into the /opt folder
<ogra> hlabs, sudo cp <file> /opt ?
<hlabs> thanks a million ogra
<Amaranth> stupid shift-backspace bug
<Amaranth> i still haven't figured out how to fix it
<sbalneav> rodarvus!!!
<rodarvus> sbalneav!
<sbalneav> You hunka-hunka burning love, you!  How's it going?
<rodarvus> :)
<rodarvus> I wish I could say all is fine, but my head is exploding due to a headache :)
<rodarvus> hope all is well with you, though!
<sbalneav> Aspirin == good.
<sbalneav> I'm sitting here at work in an application UAT 
<sbalneav> (User Acceptance Test)
<sbalneav> I have little to do at the moment, other than observe.
<sbalneav> So, I'm hacking on Edubuntu, as this is fun :)
<rodarvus> heh, nice :)
<pygi> sbalneav, iscsi? :)
<sbalneav> pygi: That's one of the things I'm looking at yes.
<sbalneav> still haven't found an independent client side library
<pygi> good, then someone'll write it :P
<pygi> gotta run now, ttyl later, sorry
<sbalneav> pygi: how clean-room do you want to be?  Could we pull the 
<sbalneav> iscsi stuff out of the older, gpl'd cdrecord?
<sbalneav> or are you wanting no Jorge in there? :)
<sbalneav> gone :)
<lucasvo> btw, when's edgy release? 6.10 or 6.12?
<crimsun> the former.
<crimsun> the 26th of Oct.
<lucasvo> that means only 4 months for edgy
<lucasvo> wow
<Burgwork> yes
<lucasvo> what other thinclients are there for ltsp than the one on disklessworstations.com?
<Burgwork> any old computer
<sbalneav> Burgwork: Most Pentium and onwards machines should work.
<Burgwork> sbalneav, ah
<Burgwork> lucasvo, you need about 128 mb of ram
<lucasvo> sbalneav: I need real thin clients
<lucasvo> without sata controller
<lucasvo> the don't have to be cheap
<Petaris> lucasvo: Thin clients or dumb clients?
<Petaris> there is a difference after all
<Petaris> for my dumb clients I go to SolarPC
<Petaris> nice boxes and very easy to work with
<lucasvo> Petaris: something like the clients on disklessworkstations.com
<sbalneav> lucasvo: If the ones on disklessworkstations.com are what you want, why not order from them? :) Proceeds go to support LTSP related activities!
<highvoltage> hi there sbalneav, Petaris, lucasvo and Burgwork 
<sbalneav> Afternoon, highvoltage 
<highvoltage> sbalneav: do you have a gdm setup in meucow at the moment?
<sbalneav> Yup, we're running on one right now in the training room
<sbalneav> Ubuntu's muekow, but using gdm.
<Petaris> Hi highvoltage 
<Burgwork> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> sbalneav: do you have local apps on meukow?
<Petaris> lucasvo: To my knowlage the diskless workstations clients are dumb clients (ie, no embeded os)
<sbalneav> Pretty easy: enable [xdmcp]  on the server, and just create an lts.conf that looks like the following:
<highvoltage> sbalneav: i got it working too, which is why I asked :)
<highvoltage> I also had to add /var/lib/gdm to the rw_dirs
<sbalneav> Ah, perfect.
<ogra> aha the conservatives 
<sbalneav> Oh, you're running gdm ON THE CLIENT?  No, I'm not doing that
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> I'm running SCREEN_07 = startx
<highvoltage> ah
<sbalneav> and it xdmcp broadcasts
<highvoltage> sbalneav: i remember you said something at the summit about giving a choice to the user of gdm or ssh
<highvoltage> oic
<ogra> highvoltage, there is one :)
<sbalneav> Yep, it's just not documented well.
<ogra> enable xdmcp in your gdm 
<sbalneav> We just really need to make a wiki page up to document the process.
<ogra> and add SCREEN_07 = startx to lts.conf ... as sbalneav wrote
<highvoltage> ogra: this is only applicable since edgy ltsp, right?
* highvoltage is just wondering for documentation purposes
<ogra> nope
<sbalneav> No, works in dapper
<ogra> that was always possible
<ogra> should as well in breezy
<sbalneav> Coolio
<highvoltage> great
* sbalneav will be redoing all my server shortly, and will be switching to Muekow everywhere.
<ogra> yay
<highvoltage> i downloaded knot 2 today, will play with it tomorrow and thursday
* ogra will have to work through the next 36h :/
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and local apps?
<ogra> edgy+1
<sbalneav> Like I say, I'm still a little hazy on bzr and packaging, but you and vagrant will fix that in 7 days :)
<highvoltage> ok
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> 7 ?
<ogra> 9 you mean ...
<sbalneav> Lots of people want localapps, and muekow makes that just an issue of plumbing.
<highvoltage> edubuntu edgy will be really great from a technical p.o.v.
<sbalneav> err, sorry
<sbalneav> off by 2 error.
<ogra> or am i wrong ? 
<ogra> *phew*
<sbalneav> I actually arrive on Wednesday
<sbalneav> you get there thursday.
<ogra> ijust thought my tickets were wrong ...
<sbalneav> no, I'm an earlybird :)
<highvoltage> edubuntu is just about ready for people like RichEd, imho
<ogra> you think he should go back to school ??
<ogra> lucasvo, the xubuntu cd has an ltsp mode  that installs everything ... but the guy in 58981 installed ltsp-utils from universe and ran ltspadmin 
<ogra> (after all was set up)
<ogra> which left him with a mixed dapper muecow ltsp-4.1 setup
<highvoltage> ogra: lol, I meant, the next phase is getting the education part right
<ogra> lol, right
<Amaranth> http://www.realistanew.com/random/willowng/question.png \o/
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ohh, nice
* ogra hands Amaranth a can with blue paint ... your windows are lacking some ...
<ogra> very nice !
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is that packaged? ;-)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: no
<Amaranth> ogra: blue paint?
<Amaranth> oh, the border
<Amaranth> yeah, i used super+button1 to take the screenshot, it takes away focus
<Burgwork> HIG compliance alert: your buttons should be "cancel" and "start filter"
<Amaranth> Burgwork: that's an extra 10 lines of code
<Amaranth> will do it later :P
<Burgwork> ok
<Petaris> later
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hiya pygi 
<cbx33> howz you?
<pygi> good & tired
<cbx33> still burning stuff
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> you should change your nick to pyro !:p
<pygi> lol, thanks, but no thanks :)
<Amaranth> Looking for guinea pigs.... :)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: ping?
<cbx33> Amaranth, heheh
<cbx33> Amaranth, I would test it out, but have a fair amount to do, I may get a chance later on
<Burgwork> Amaranth, testing your filter? can do once I get home
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah?
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> I have a small python listening app included in SCP that needs to be run whenever a user logs in in X
<cbx33> how would I achieve this...
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I need a guinea pig to pull from bzr and test things. :)
<cbx33> someone mentioned a .desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart
<Amaranth> cbx33: that would work
<Burgwork> cbx33, is this is a policy daemon?
<cbx33> but would that apply to a non-interactive terminal type app
<cbx33> policy daemon?
<cbx33> it's a dbus listener
<Burgwork> what does this app do?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I have not tried installing it, only running from current dir. So you'll be on the bleeding edge. :)
<cbx33> basically Burgwork it listens to the system bus for messages addressed to it
<cbx33> and acts on themin the users space
<cbx33> like starting apps
<cbx33> killing processes etc :p
<cbx33> the user has no interaction with ti what so ever
<Burgwork> right, the issue with running it int he users session is that kids will very quickly figure out they can screw teacher up by killing it
<cbx33> Burgwork, I know that
<cbx33> but for now this is the route we are goign down
<cbx33> :p
<Burgwork> any sort of policy enforcing apps need to be run at the system level
<cbx33> edgy+1 will be much more enhanced
<cbx33> Burgwork, I'm just filling the specs for SCP
<cbx33> nothing more at the moment
<Burgwork> ok, no worries
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I had already thought of that
<cbx33> and spoken with ogra about it
<Burgwork> scp will only work on a thin client setup, right?
<cbx33> um....yes and no :p
<cbx33> parts of it will work on a normal setup with a tweak
<cbx33> ie the killing/executing/lockdown aspects
<cbx33> I think the logout is the only one which requires the LTSP setup
<Burgwork> right
<cbx33> so what do you suggest?
<cbx33> for starting this app
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I'll test it when I have a chance, got a lot of things going on at the moment :-)
<Burgwork> .desktop autostart
<Burgwork> that is what gpm and nm-applet use
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> but they both have like icons in the taskbar don't they?
<cbx33> does that mak a difference?
<Burgwork> don't think so
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> will try that
<cbx33> ogra will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure
<cbx33> I have to write the main inclusion report too :S
<Amaranth> ook
<Amaranth> need to figure out how to make it install error_pages dir
<Burgwork> main inclusion isn't hard
<cbx33> Burgwork, heheh
<cbx33> I hope not
<cbx33> I need all this done for thurs
<Burgwork> I would write it today then
<Burgwork> post FF, we should sit down and respec for edgy+1, because I have a fair amount of ideas/information for my work here at userful
<LaserJock> yeah, I need to finish edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<cbx33> Burgwork, I have many ideas for SCP+1 :p
<cbx33> Burgwork, I'm going to write it today
<cbx33> would you have any time free to check it over for me once it's done?
<cbx33> in about an hours time?
<Burgwork> the main inclusion report? sure
<cbx33> thanks Burgwork 
<Amaranth> alright, package is broken
<Amaranth> the proxy is apparently not getting access to the bus
* Amaranth will reboot
<Burgwork> welcome to D-Bus, bringing you back to the age of Win 95
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> Burgwork, you don;t like dbus?
<Burgwork> no, if the session D-Bus dies, you need to logout and login
<Burgwork> if the system bus dies you need to reboot
<Burgwork> that is utter crack
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> I can't believe people are quoting my blog :D
<cbx33> this is unbelieveable !
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<ogra> does anybody have a nice suggestion for a portnumber for the ldm infod ?
<pygi> cbx33, lol :)
<cbx33> 1624
<ogra> i used 9571 during development 
<pygi> ogra, 3726 :)
<cbx33> 1981
<ogra> but that looks quite odd 
<Burgwork> why not 9571?
<cbx33> 5478
<ogra> Burgwork, dunno
<cbx33> 7200
<ogra> it looks so strange :)
<cbx33> ogra, just to check, the scp pacakage
<cbx33> I've basiaclly finished it
<cbx33> I'm goign to add a .desktop file to /etc/xdg/autostart
<ogra> is it uploaded anywhere ? 
<cbx33> to start the scp client script
<pygi> ogra, 9999 :)
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ogra, it will be in about an hour
<cbx33> just gonna take a shower
<ogra> pygi, thats as evil as 666 i guess :)
<cbx33> I'll finish the pacakge upload to my site
<ogra> cbx33, cool !
<pygi> ogra, lol :P
<cbx33> write the main inclusion report
<LaserJock> argg, I so need a need a new dev box :(
<cbx33> Burgwork, said he'd check it over for me
<cbx33> will you be around in an hour ogra ?
<pygi> ogra, ahm, port 8179? :)
<ogra> you cant do much wrong 
<cbx33> ogra, this is a big thing for me
<cbx33> code in main !!!!! code in main !!!!
<ogra> i wonder if 1337 is still free *g* ...
<LaserJock> hah
<cbx33> ogra, I think ti's used
<ogra> cbx33, youre doing awesome work, really !
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=132#comments - mixed opinions
<cbx33> thanks ogra all thnks to you my friend
<cbx33> well thank you to everyone...hence why I wrote that blog post
* ogra hugs cbx33 
* cbx33 hugs his mentor
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> 1337 isnt used according to my /etc/services
<cbx33> ogra, take it take it
<cbx33> ogra, will you be aroudn in an hour?
<cbx33> I'll have it done then
<cbx33> and you can take a look
<ogra> i guess i'll stay up till tomorrow evening, lets see
* cbx33 will be staying up LATE
<cbx33> and getting up early
<cbx33> I think 4 hours sleep tonight
<cbx33> shame we couldn't get VNC
<cbx33> sorry I'm not *that* good yet
<pygi> cbx33, we still have time :)
<ogra> cbx33, its fine ... you did more than anyone else could have done in that time ... 
<cbx33> ogra, I dunno about that......i lost a lot of time looking for non-existant docs
<cbx33> pygi, not enough time to patch x11vnc :p
<cbx33> I'm goign to grab a shower
<cbx33> and I'll be back
<ogra> rodarvus, any idea why xauth would never return from a generate command ? 
<ogra> the -v output is quite lame
<LaserJock> ogra: if I get my edgy box back up I'll give you an edubuntu-menus package
<ogra> yay!
#edubuntu 2006-09-06
<LaserJock> real life has been kicking my tail lately
<ogra> kick it back :)
<LaserJock> and for some reason my edgy box decided to not have a network anymore
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> so I'm installing Knot2 to see if I can get it going
<LaserJock> I also but in a different network card
<LaserJock> s/but/put/
<Amaranth> restart didn't fix, will debug later
<Amaranth> time for food
<LaserJock> my last knot2 try with the old netowork card died on OO.o deps or something
<cbx33> right time to kick some SCP ass
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> you already have a .desktop file in there?
<cbx33> ah nevermind
<cbx33> LaserJock, got a sec for a packaging question?
<LaserJock> cbx33: shoot
<cbx33> debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-arch
<cbx33> :S?
<FlyingSquirrel32> I've got edubuntu here at home, but when I upgraded to 6.10 my DHCP and ltsp isn't running. Any ideas?
<cbx33> ogra, had some problems with module names
<cbx33> hopefully building the final test deb now
<cbx33> it's bloody broken it all
<cbx33> ogra....it's gonna have to be tomorrow
<cbx33> sorry dude
<cbx33> it's bugger up the module names now
<ogra> well ...
<cbx33> ogra, done it
<cbx33> I've fixed it
<cbx33> I wasn't goign to goto bed till I did
<cbx33> I have pessulus and scp ready
<ogra> wow
<ogra> you rock !
<cbx33> do you want debs or the source debs
<cbx33> ogra, there was some buggery in python
<Amaranth> source debs are always better :)
<cbx33> you cannot have a module name with a - in it
<cbx33> which I wasn't aware of
* Amaranth goes to figure out why willowng won't setup it's dbus interface
<cbx33> so when I built the site-pacakges dir for the plugins
<cbx33> it was 
<cbx33> student-control-panel
<cbx33> which died
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> but it's all fixed now
<cbx33> I'll upload it sir
<ogra> ah :)
<cbx33> hope you like
<jsgotangco> wha? you guys are all doing an all-nighter?
<cbx33> in edgy+1 I recommend a complete re hash of scp
<cbx33> and restructure
<cbx33> well I am
<cbx33> and I still havn't done the MIR :S
<ogra> jsgotangco, i just finished the last lines of the login/session selection stuff in ldm ... and cbx33 rocks the worls with a finished SCP and pessulus
<ogra> *world
<jsgotangco> whoa
<pygi> jsgotangco, yes :P
<jsgotangco> im sorry i haven't been much help develoment-wise
* ogra looks at a danish xfce atm ...
<ogra> i havent found a sane way to translate all the locales yet ...
<cbx333> ogra, 
<cbx333> www.progbox.co.uk/main-additions
<pygi> night all
* pygi looks at clock...2:20 am, whee:-)
<cbx333> I havn't checked one aspect of it
<cbx333> but it's a minor thing :p
<cbx333> oh bugger
<cbx333> dang it
<cbx333> ok updated
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> ogra, seeing as my updated version of SCP isn't in universe
<cbx333> for availability chall I reference that link I just gave you?
<cbx333> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionStudentControlPanel ogra Burgwork 
<cbx333> does that look ok?
<ogra> cbx333, it needs to be the universe package you refer to in "Availablility" 
<cbx333> even though that's not up to date?
<ogra> Needed to assist in the maintenance of edubuntu LTSP servers and planned addition for edgy
<ogra> pitti wont read it tonight ;)
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> we ok to fix up tomorroe
<cbx333> will you give me a few mins to sort it all out
<ogra> what about the dependencies ? 
<ogra> you only list the build deps
<cbx333> oh shute yeh
<cbx333> pessulus
<cbx333> ok
<ogra> thats in main
<cbx333> dang that's not in control either
<ogra> just drop the brackets
* cbx333 cries
<cbx333> there is a bug in the package
<cbx333> the xdg autostart file isn't starting scp-client on user login
<ogra> oh, why ? 
<cbx333> I'm not sure
<cbx333> just restarting X
<cbx333> to find out why
<cbx333> the program is in the right place and runs fine :S
<cbx333> just waiting to test again
<cbx333> how soon can we get scp into universe...the updated pacakge I mean?
<jsgotangco> wtf i have to run ie on this machine
<cbx333> ogra, I still can't see why it's not loading scp-client at logon
<cbx333> but that's not critical right now
<cbx333> I can fix that tomorrow
<cbx333> nn eveyone
<cbx333> 4 hours sleep here I come :D
<Amaranth> i've almost gotten all the bugs i can find out of willowng 0.3
<ogra> enjoy
<Amaranth> one or two left
<Amaranth> did anyone ever check to see if firefox honors gconf proxy settings?
<rodarvus> ogra, do you still need help with xauth?
<ogra> rodarvus, i have no idea whats wrong with it ... but it seems i cant log in properly after i logged out (unrelated to the session handling stuff, i saw it before)
<ogra> its a bug, fine to fix it after ff
<rodarvus> good
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: where would I pull that code from?
<Burgundavia> should I remove the packaged willow-ng?
<Burgundavia> cbx333: have you also got some code for me to test?
<Amaranth> hold on, let me push
<Amaranth> bzr branch http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: error: can't copy 'build/willowng.desktop': doesn't exist or not a regular file
<Burgundavia> oh, wait, I don't have build essental
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
<Amaranth> damn custom error pages
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<Amaranth> they don't work :P
<Amaranth> as far as i can tell everything else works but you get some headers for output instead of an error page when you hit something that got blocked
<Amaranth> and firefox doesn't use gconf proxy settings :/
<Burgundavia> ogra: I would love it if you could write a five line summary of ltsp in edgy over dapper for the UWN
<ogra> Burgundavia, not before FF 
<jsgotangco> ogra: hmm working at home is enjoyable at first..i discovered
<ogra> i'm up since 22h ... and need some sleep and have to implement one spec tomorrow
<ogra> jsgotangco, absolutely ...
<ogra> you can mow the lawn while compiling a big package etc ...
<ogra> night all...
<ogra> Amaranth, final review submitted btw ...
<Amaranth> cool
<_acesuares> hi all
<_acesuares> anyone awake ??
<_acesuares> I am looking for a speaker on a small conference on education in Curacao (www.curacao.com) for
<_acesuares> 4 or 5 october. How would I locate such speaker ?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: how'd the willowng testing go?
<Amaranth> as far as i can see everything but error pages works
<Amaranth> but firefox does not honor gconf proxy settings
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm wondering what to do on the KDE side
<LaserJock> I don't use KDE very much so I'm not very familiar how it would work
<LaserJock> I was able to figure out where it stored the proxy settings for konqueror
<Burgundavia> for the menu stuff?
<Burgundavia> KDE uses the same menu
<LaserJock> willowng
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> that is another thing: like the lockdown keys, that needs to be freedesktop-ed
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> it really would be nice to have a common place for common things
<Amaranth> everything i can find says to use iptables to do transparent proxying
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah, that's what I was going to try to look at
<Amaranth> i was told not to do it
<_acesuares>  I am looking for a speaker on a small conference on education in Curacao (www.curacao.com) for
<_acesuares> [22:44]  <_acesuares> 4 or 5 october. How would I locate such speaker ?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: remember the guy at Ubucon who was grilling me on KDE support?
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps
<Burgundavia> he asked Chris during the final wrapup
<Burgundavia> after Chris said what Canonical was doing
<Amaranth> http://in-cider.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1F17474AB1F2CE52!338.entry <--w00t
<Amaranth> hacky but i'll take it
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah?
<Burgundavia> you want it to automatically change the proxy info for the browser, without having to manually change the browser?
<Amaranth> perhaps i can get whoever takes care of firefox to setup part of that for me
<Amaranth> so i only need to add/remove things from the prefcalls.js file
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: yeah
<Amaranth> basically it looks like the plan now is to set debconf and gconf proxy settings, do that firefox hack, then use iptables to block access to port 80 for everyone but willowng
<Burgundavia> that is a major hack
<Amaranth> yep
<Burgundavia> apps should honour the HTTP_PROXY ENV variable
<Amaranth> should
<Amaranth> i'll set that one too, thanks
<LaserJock> that iptables bit is also difficult
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> sleep time, have to wake up in 3 hours
<LaserJock> ugg
<highvoltage> morning LaserJock Amaranth and Burgundavia!
<Burgundavia> morning high
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, even
<highvoltage> :)
<Burgundavia> hmm, funny at work today. My workmate comes in and we start talking about Linux and he says "Ya, my buddy is now running that sinking ship Linux"
<Burgundavia> fun roll loops!
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> sinking ship Linux?
<LaserJock> yeah, we suck ;-)
<Burgundavia> no, Gentoo
<LaserJock> ah
<Burgundavia> http://funroll-loops.org/
<Burgundavia> for the record, that is whiprush's page
<Burgundavia> something I learned at LWE
<LaserJock> what? really?
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> ah Gentoo, I miss those days sometimes
<Burgundavia> never did that crack and thus I have never "missed" it
<highvoltage> heh
<LaserJock> it really is a nice distro
<LaserJock> but it is different
<highvoltage> I used to miss Gentoo, I installed it a few weeks ago (just to try the new GUI installer), and found that I wasn't really missing /that/ much.
<LaserJock> it's how I got started on Linux
<highvoltage> LaserJock: probably a sentimental thing then :)
<LaserJock> sorta
<highvoltage> i liked that i could leave my computer overnight to compile things
<highvoltage> it gave me a feeling that my computer was working while I was sleeping
<highvoltage> which made me feel more productive :)
<LaserJock> but debian/ubuntu is the only thing that has matched it in terms of having all the software I need
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgundavia> that is utter crack, you realize that
<highvoltage> that's what pulled me to debian as well. I didn't have to download and compile anything when I started using debian. and testing and unstable always had (or at least has) very new versions of all the software available.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: not for me anyway
<LaserJock> or were you talking to highvoltage
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: 
<highvoltage> before debian I used to use slackware and SuSE, it's been ages since I used them now.
<highvoltage> Burgundavia
<LaserJock> i wasn't into gentoo for the source so i eventually looked for a binary gentto
<LaserJock> *gentoo
<LaserJock> that's how I ended up with Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> we have stolen a lot of users from Gentoo, I think
<LaserJock> i can believe that
<LaserJock> the thing is, I  found gentoo to be very easy to install and use
<LaserJock> and I tried to get into Debian a couple times
<LaserJock> but failed miserably 
<Burgundavia> debian is a bitch to install
<Burgundavia> although d-i makes it a bit better
<Burgundavia> mostly I hate any distro that is more than one cd
<LaserJock> mhm
<RichEd> greetz :)
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hello LaserJock :)
<highvoltage> hi RichEd 
<TeePOG> good morning
<highvoltage> morning TeePOG 
<TeePOG> how you doing highvoltage?
<highvoltage> good thanks and you TeePOG?
<highvoltage> TeePOG: where are you from? your IP address looks familiar.
<TeePOG> highvoltage: Pretoria, SA
<TeePOG> yo?
<TeePOG> you*?
<highvoltage> TeePOG: Cape Town
<RichEd> TeePOG: I'm also in Cape Town ... what's your Edubuntu interest ?
<TeePOG> we've got an internet cafe
<TeePOG> and i'm running edubuntu as a terminal server
<RichEd> TeePOG: Great ... I'm the Education Manager, and I am currently building a view of our user categories to create community and support areas. Would you be willing to answer a few profile questions via email ?
<RichEd> if yes, you can mail me on richard.edubuntu@gmail.com saying this is TeePOG with a 2 line intro.
<RichEd> I'd appreciate it : As in "help us to help you better"
<TeePOG> RichEd: i would love to, but having 1 or 2 issues with the actual LTSP logins... need to sort out the technical side, then i'd have leisure to help you
<highvoltage> TeePOG: you can ask technical questions in this channell too :)
<RichEd> no rush TeePOG : It will be an exercise over the next month. Pop me a hi, and you can get the questions and respond any time you are free.
<RichEd> An by the way, jump at the offer of help from highvoltage. He's one of the top LTSP hands-on experience resources :)
<TeePOG> i will... ironically i have to help a customer sort out why her laptop won't get POP
* RichEd pimps for highvoltage as a side job ;)
<TeePOG> brb highvoltage ok?
<highvoltage> ok
<TeePOG> lol RichEd... nice job
<RichEd> highvoltage: Can I ask you a quick technical question ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: I prefer quick technical questions to questions about asking questions
<highvoltage> RichEd: of course :
<highvoltage> )
* RichEd opens a private window with highvoltage so as not to embarress himself with newbie issues
* RichEd hides from jono ... quick
<jono> heh
<RichEd> will speak to you now jono ... give me 5
<jono> sure
<TeePOG> sooo, highvoltage: still available?
<pygi> hey ho ogra 
<ogra> hey
* ogra is disappointed ..., just upgraded to upstart and expected some sppedup of the boot at least ...
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> there goes the only thing I had to look forward to this week
<ogra> well, i guess its the fact that we still use all the sysvinit scripts ..
<ogra> if things actually use the new system it will get faster
<pygi> right
<pips1> arg, I was hoping for a speedup too ;-)
<pips1> RichEd ping
<RichEd> pong pips1 : on my way to get a coffee ... open a window and go for it ... back in 5
<pips1> RichEd send me those profile questions too, I'm happy to participate :-)
<pips1> ... and rather curious about your profile questions ;-)
<RichEd> Sure pygi ... it is very high-level bare bones, but we'll refine. Main criteria right now is to identify our Categories of Users / Stakeholders.
<pygi> ahm? :)
<RichEd> We'll then drill down into profiling each category ... from hands-on user values to softer issues ... e.g. education department officials are not users, but stakeholders, and what are their buttons that we need to press
<juliux> morning
<pips1> RichEd: i'm slightly confused who you are currently talking to! :-) is it me? autocompletion gave you 'pygi' instead of 'pips1' ?
* RichEd clarifies ...
<RichEd> pips1: Sure .. it is very high-level bare bones, but we'll refine. Main criteria right now is to identify our Categories of Users / Stakeholders.
<RichEd> pips1: We'll then drill down into profiling each category ... from hands-on user values to softer issues ... e.g. education department officials are not users, but stakeholders, and what are their buttons that we need to press
<RichEd> pygi: hi :)
<pygi> RichEd, lol,hi :)
* RichEd apologises for switch around
<RichEd> (comes from eating peanut butter toast and typing at the same time)
<pips1> RichEd: bare-bones is fine and I'd be more than happy to provide my input to refine the profiling as we go along... 
<RichEd> pips1: I'll ping you when sent.
<pips1> ok
<cbx33> ping pygi ogra 
<cbx33> ping Amaranth 
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> cbx33, SCP uploaded to universe, so you can refer to the package in your MIR
<cbx33> ogra: wow cool
<cbx33> I need to talk to you a little
<ogra> not today please
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thank you
<cbx33> I will finish up the includsion
<ogra> i have a complete feature to implement and have two meetings today ...
<cbx33> and poke you for a universe upload later
<cbx33> ogra: that's fine
<ogra> its a very very tight day for me
<cbx33> there is still a problem with scp-client
<ogra> fine, poke me ... (and go for motu asap ;) )
<cbx33> but I'm goign to pool all my resources and work till 4:00am to fix if I have to
<cbx33> ogra: :D ok
<cbx33> thanks !
* pygi wants someone signs his key, so he can go for MOTU :P
<cbx33> pygi: please do you ahve a second
<cbx33> I really need some python assistance
<cbx33> who would I bug for an update to a package in main?
<cbx33> oh actually nm
<pygi> cbx33, lol
<ogra> cbx33, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-September/005093.html
<ogra> please be a bit more verbose in your next chagelog entries :)
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<ogra> i dont care, i know what you did ...
<ogra> but that one sentence somehow hides the awesome work ... you deserve the credit so take it ;) ... 
<cbx33> aww thanks ogra I'll have to repackage...maybe I'll sneak it in :D
<RichEd> ping cbx33 
<TeePOG> can anyone tell me the following: is "kaffe" an adequate substitute for the JRE?
<TeePOG> RichEd: do you know?
<RichEd> hi TeePOG : i'm still getting up to speed with the apps ... I'd suggest wait for a wider audience response.
<TeePOG> thanks RichEd
<cbx33> pong RichEd 
<TeePOG> it seems Automatix can find no installation candidate for the Sun JRE
<RichEd> TeePOG: I'll make you a deal ... send me an email for later chat and I'll do a quick hunt for you ... and also send you some useful resources by email response
<TeePOG> OK RichEd, sending mail now
<RichEd> shot. will do a quick search for you on kaffe ... explain the issues in more detail in 2/3 lins and i'll go hunt for you
<TeePOG> RichEd: what do you want in the intro?
<RichEd> hi, it's teepog from the pta icafe
<RichEd> that's enuff to get a placemarker
<TeePOG> ah ok
<TeePOG> thought you wanted a 2-sentence bio
<TeePOG> *sent*
<cbx33> RichEd: you wanna talk meetings?
<RichEd> cbx33: sending an email to charles masters ... please tell me: official position, school name, school location
<RichEd> yours ... innawindow
<cbx33> ok
<RichEd> :) thanks
<TeePOG> just out of interest: does anyone else use Internet Solutions as an ISP? they seem to have the whole Ubuntu main / stable / universe / multiverse mirror, but what do I put in my sources.list to make apt use IS as a repo?
<rodarvus> good morning
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33
<highvoltage> so, hands up who's doing something on Software Freedom Day this year?
<pygi> none here wants to organise it :(
<highvoltage> :(
<pygi> highvoltage, true :(
* pips1 waves at lucasvo who is involved in organising an event on software freedom day
<RichEd> ping ogra
<ogra> RichEd, pong
<RichEd> ogra: I know you are very busy - quick comments in pvt window
<Zplay> Hi
<pygi> ogra, libburn works great on remote burners over iscsi ;)
<ogra> cool !
<pygi> throught openiscsi
* pygi does a happy dance ^_^
<pygi> just blanked cd, and burning data iso
<pygi> ogra:
<pygi> the clients can hold their own settings in /etc and load kernel modules as they please, dont they? so just connecting to the initiator via TCP should do I suppose?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and we have an ssh tunnel to trigger it on the server in the users session
<pygi> oki, I thought we are thinking about rocket science, and it's simple really :P
<pygi> right, thanks for explanation :)
<pygi> there's also an init script coming with openiscsi
<pygi> we could add a line or two to login to the target
<pygi> ogra: the node name doesn't change as long as the device description/MAC address of the target doesn't change! so it's really easily scriptable to log on, no need to access the initiator over ssh to do it, right?
<ogra> well, safety probably
<pygi> ahm, I get it, so we want the ssh trigger
<ogra> if you trigger the session side at the moment where you detect an empty CD for example
<ogra> thast quite safe ...
<pygi> right, right
<jsgotangco> hello
<pygi> hey ho jsgotangco 
<TeePOG> i changed the hostname, and now some of my updates don't work... keep asking for "non-local host edubuntu"
<TeePOG> how do I fix it??
<pygi> ogra, we also have to enable scsi-ide-emulation
<ogra> that will get the kernel team in a rage
<pygi> ogra, perhaps, but we need it
<ogra> it will break cdrecord
<pygi> ogra, ehm :-/
<pygi> ogra, why exactly would we break cdrecord with that?
<ogra> cdrecord has a check for scsi emu
<pygi> ogra, and it fails if we have it enabled?
<ogra> and its abandoned upstream in the kernel since 2.6.0
<RichEd> ----- edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ---- now -----
<cbx33> ogra: just replacing your os.popen calls 
<ogra> i think it fails, yes
<ogra> cbx33, cool
<ogra> there are a lot of them i saw :(
<cbx33> ogra: if after that the MIR is good....can we submit to main queue?
<cbx33> there are 4
<cbx33> I have killed off one
<cbx33> just working on the other 3
<pygi> ogra, so it would mean there is no way we can enable it? :-/
<ogra> it will vanish from the kernel at some point
<pygi> o joy, oki, so we'll have to find a way :)
<pips1> ogra: will you join the meeting at all?
<pygi> but without the emulation we only have support for scsi drives :P
<pygi> that's why we need userspace lib probably :P
<cbx33> anyone know why I can't login to my ltsp
<cbx33> i just get booted back to login scree nagain
<nahoj> serious question: how difficult is it for a "windows-only"-sys admin to install and administrate ubuntu on a school-network? there is about 16 computers for students and 10 for teachers, on top of that we are going to have a separate network for students rooms, connected to internet only. any thoughts of how hard this would be? is edubuntu the best choice for this task?
<ogra> cbx33, run ltsp-update-sshkeys ? 
<ogra> is the sshd running ? 
<cbx33> ok will check
<cbx33> thanks
<ogra> look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user if both is true
<jsgotangco> nahoj: if you're going to make use of an LTSP Server/client setup, you're just maintaining one machine
<cbx33> sorry ogra sshd isnt running
<nahoj> jsgotangco, ok, I am not sure what LTSP Server/client setup is, but the "just maintaining on machine" part sounds interesting... =)
<cbx33> it isn;'t even installed
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> this is from the knot 2 cd
<jsgotangco> nahoj: basically you have one server, and all your client computers boot from the network to that LTSP server
<jsgotangco> nahoj: your client computers don't even need to have a hard drive, just make sure you take care of your server and have a fast ethernet network
<nahoj> jsgotangco, in other words, that requires a pretty strong server?
<jsgotangco> yep
<ogra> cbx33, as i said, there is a bug with edubuntu-server
<cbx33> ah
<nahoj> I don't think that's the case in our school, jsgotangco 
<ogra> best install it from the net, then you also get some fixes ;)
<jsgotangco> well you could always install edubuntu as a standalone machine
<cbx33> ok I'll install id
<nahoj> jsgotangco, as it is now we have separate windows-installations working on their own, just connected to a file server... (if I have understood the thing correctly)
<jsgotangco> yeah thats the usual setup
<nahoj> would edubuntu be a good choice to replace this? or does it require a server as in the example above?
<jsgotangco> it can run on its own
<jsgotangco> the model you mentioned is a basic file server setup
<jsgotangco> one server has all the files
<jsgotangco> the computers save their files on the server
<jsgotangco> what you can do even is have a linux server as your file server and have these windows machines talk to that server they wouldn't even know its a linux server
<nahoj> is the documentation written for "linux-admins" only? or could a windows-admin follow it easily?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> while we do have documentation for ubuntu, the other applications have their own and they can be pretty terse
<pygi> nahoj, we have the edubuntu cookbook :)
<nahoj> pygi, what? =p
<ogra> nahoj, try the installatin instructions, would a win admin be able to install with them ? https://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<jsgotangco> nahoj: i think any win admin able to install a windows server with its text only installation can easily do a linux installation nowadays
<nahoj> ogra, yes ty. I am just reading them, and for me who is somewhat comfortable in linux they seem pretty easy...
<jsgotangco> i consider them adept enough to dig between trenches
<nahoj> thx for your help, i probably get back... ;-)
<pygi> ogra, can this be of any help:
<pygi> http://nbd.sourceforge.net/
<ogra> pygi, unlikely ... but we already include it in ltsp for network swapping, feel free to play with it ;)
<pygi> ogra, oki :)
<acesuares> ogra!
<acesuares> and all others
<acesuares> I am looking for a speaker on the subject op 'education and free software (or open source)'
<acesuares> THis is 4 or 5 oktober in Curacao (www.curacao.com)
<acesuares> how do I find such speaker ? Is there officeal PR buro or something for edubuntu ?
<acesuares> Can we ask Mark himself? 
<pygi> acesuares, you just ask someone :P
<acesuares> pygi: I am asking
* pygi is too far from Curacao to help :P
<acesuares> However, I wantr to know a little bit what caliber this speaker is as a speaker
<acesuares> pygi: we will fly yo though.
<pygi> I'm having edubuntu tak in Hungary soon, whee :)
<acesuares> pygi: hr ? is not so far from nl and from their to an ;_0
<pygi> acesuares, Croatia, yes
<acesuares> We ar elooking for some one fluent or native in english or dutch, speakgin spanish on the side is not bad either.
<acesuares> Pula ?
<pygi> Osijek :)
<pygi> I neither know spanish or dutch :P
<acesuares> nah, never heard of... or it might be in the paper some 10 years ago..
<pygi> ahm? never heard of what? :)
<ogra> acesuares, i'd love to, but as usual you have unfortunate timing ...
<acesuares> We need someone with the broader picture, what is the status not only of edubuntu but the  whole filed...
<ogra> we reelase mid/end of oct ...
<acesuares> filed =field
<ogra> so there is no free dates in the two/three weeks before
<acesuares> ogra: the dates are fixed on 4 and 5, and I probably can fill the 5th witrh open source and education.
<acesuares> I am looking at LTSP and Linux on the Desktop, but much more 
<acesuares> like moodle  and all the educational efforts like edubuntu and gcompris etc.
<acesuares> release dates... yeah. I can understand.
* pygi would like to help, but too  far really, and I'm burning stuff :P
<acesuares> But altoough I would like to meet you very much :-) Is there no kind of PR man/woman that does these things?
<acesuares> A visionaire who not codes ?
<acesuares> You can partcipate in #ubuntu-meeting from here too... we have some form of internet :-)
<acesuares> Maybe not even from the edubuntu stables ?
<acesuares> Theres must be someone who is *the* expert on edusoftware...
<pygi> acesuares, lol :)
<pygi> brb soon, lunch
<acesuares> bye pygi, have fun in Hungary !!!!!
<ogra> acesuares, thats RichEd 
<ogra> he's our educational manager 
<RichEd> acesuares: I'm the first line contact for Education ... richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
<acesuares> aha... 
<acesuares> hi RIchEd, nice to mee you, shall we continue by mail ?
<acesuares> You have a webpage about you/edubuntu ?
<RichEd> I might not be able to answer all of your issues, but I can get answers for you :) 
<RichEd> yes, email is best.
<acesuares> ahh... riched, the google in person! That would be really good.
<RichEd> acesuares: web page is coming in a day or two ... a new structure is now emerging for Education Programme.
<ogra> RichEd, no need to anwer, just fly to curacao and hold a talk P
<ogra> :P
<acesuares> ogra, i like your practical approach :-)
<ogra> *g*
<RichEd> acesuares: curaco ... south america ?
<ogra> netherlands ....
<ogra> the far south of netherlands ... 
<bddebian> Howdy
<ogra> ;)
<acesuares> well technically it is part off the Kingdom of the Netherlands, but The Netherlands is a seprate country
<acesuares> We are 1 islad of 5 in the 'Netherlands Antilles' and just put your finger on Dakar (in Africa) and go west for couple of 1000 miles
<acesuares> average tempaatue 31 degfrees C...
<pygi> acesuares, I'm back, and thanks :P
<acesuares> quick lunch !
<acesuares> where you from Richard ?
<TeePOG> anyone here [besides highvoltage]  who knows the ltsp side of edubuntu?
<ogra> TeePOG, that'd be me but i'm very busy working towards a deadline (tomorrow) with the ltsp features for edgy
<acesuares> ogra: local devs ??
<ogra> done
<acesuares> you rock !!!!!!!!!!!
<ogra> since a week :)
<TeePOG> ah ok ogra, shout if you have a moment... i just need to know one thing
<acesuares> you rock longer then that !
<ogra> language and session selection wnet in yesterday
<acesuares> cool! session selection.... hmmm... might look at that for the win4lin sessions
<ogra> dhcpd.conf autogeneration from the installe is supposed to be done today
<acesuares> later of course. I am not top notch with the development :-(
<ogra> TeePOG, shoot, i'll see if i can answer quickly ...
<TeePOG> ok ogra... the terminal login works fine... but only for my username. all others, it accepts the login, goes black, and returns to the ltsp login screen
<TeePOG> how do i make other usernames work over ltsp?
<acesuares> no shell ?
<ogra> did you install sabayon ? 
<ogra> it requires a profile for every user, else it wont allow ltsp logins
<TeePOG> sabayon? nope...
<TeePOG> is that a manager for ltsp?
<ogra> a profile manager for gnome
<ogra> can the users log in locally on the server ? 
<TeePOG> well, we use kde... it's been requested
<acesuares> I made the mistake to make all users have shell /bin/false, for safety... that didn't work :_)
<TeePOG> will it not work if i have gtk and libgnome installed?
<acesuares> TeePOG: can the users log in locally on the server ?? I use kde too.
<ogra> right, /bin/false wouldnt work
<ogra> TeePOG, test if the users can log in on the server directly
<acesuares> ogra: but now they can ssh into the server... bad.... need to find something for that !?
<ogra> i suspect there is rather somethig wrong with te accounts not with ltsp
<acesuares> esepcially if teepog made the accounts with kuser
<acesuares> they won't get a lot of proper groups
<ogra> as long as they get a homedir it should be fine ...
<acesuares> like hey don't get any groups execpet themselves (no 'video', 'dip' etc etc
<ogra> i have no clue about KDE tools
<acesuares> good for you :-)
<TeePOG> damn, it's not a happy username... the session died... so it's the way the user was created?
<acesuares> do 'id username' and see what groups it is in
<acesuares> in a terminal of course.
<ogra> and check that a dir for hi in /home exists
<ogra> *him
<acesuares> or her
<TeePOG> uid=1001(cellshop) gid=500(cellshop) groups=500(cellshop),4(adm),24(cdrom),30(dip),60(games)
<TeePOG> yes, there is a dir in /home
<acesuares> looks reasonable
<ogra> 500 doesnt ? 
<ogra> ubuntu user groups usually start at 1000
<acesuares> in a terminal, try 'login' and user the username and password see if you can get a prompt.
<ogra> dunno if kubuntu handles that differently
<ogra> also look in the users .xsession-errors file in his homedir
<ogra> it should sho session errors
<TeePOG> for 'login', i get: No utmp entry.  You must exec "login" from the lowest level "sh"
<ogra> *show
<acesuares> second user gets 1001, groups should in kde alos start with 1000 or so
<ogra> yep
<ogra> 1000 is the admin user ... 
<ogra> new users should get higher ids
<ogra> but it wont break through the 500 i think ...
<acesuares> you can't login with that user
<ogra> its just a bit strange
<acesuares> yeah the 500 is strange but shouldn't break.
<acesuares> Did you try 'adduser' to create a user from a terminal ?
<acesuares> or kuser from the graphical interface ?
<TeePOG> i used kuser... let me try the console way and get back
<acesuares> okay.
<TeePOG> i see this is not a happy login
<acesuares> unhappy logins tend to fail in ubuntu :-)
<TeePOG> ok, now 'id cellshop' gives me: uid=1001(cellshop) gid=1001(cellshop) groups=1001(cellshop)
<ogra> can you log in ? 
<acesuares> that's better but the many other groups are missing, like audio etc etc
<TeePOG> on the way to try that
<acesuares> but try to login through the terminal first, then X, then LTSP
<TeePOG> doesn't work on the terminal... the login command sends an error: No utmp entry.  You must exec "login" from the lowest level "sh"
<TeePOG> in X, does the same
<TeePOG> in LTSP, the same
<acesuares> I am baffled.
<TeePOG> is there a specific usergroup the user needs to belong to?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the above is fine
<TeePOG> sheesh
<TeePOG> this needs to work by tomorrow morning
<astecp> by "can you log in" you're not referring to running /bin/login from a terminal, right?
<TeePOG> i am, why?
* astecp no ubuntu expert but this error from /bin/login is to be expected on any linux systems I've dealt with
<acesuares> astecp: right, you are right. my bad.
<astecp> TeePOG: I'm not sure that's what ogra is referring to. Ogra's the expert though
<astecp> more "can you log in to {a tty/xdm-whatever/ltsp}
<acesuares> I assumed he was running as root (with sudo -s)
<acesuares> the login command works.
<acesuares> However, TeePog also syas he can't log in locally in the server with the graphical user interface
<acesuares> true, TeePOG ?
<ogra> just log in on the server either at (K)GDM or that the console ...
<acesuares> TeePOG is gone... :-(
<acesuares> I am off before I make things worse...
<acesuares> thx ogra for the links with RichEd
<acesuares> bye
<RichEd> acesuares: got the mail ... will respond
<RichEd> bye ... from Cape Town
<acesuares> Cape Town is good... you will probably understand some of the issues here...
<RichEd> scanned your email briefly ... sounds familiar :)
<sbalneav> Morning edubuntuites
<astecp> hmm. Any particular arguments nfs vs smb for a file server?
<sbalneav> Depends.  Are you serving windows boxes or Unix/Linux boxes?
<astecp> linux only
<astecp> for now, at least
<astecp> otherwise there wouldn't be a question :)
<sbalneav> Then NFS
<TeePOG> ok, that's just weird
<astecp> sbalneav: particular reasons? Performance/reliability?
<sbalneav> Simplicity.
<astecp> that's a very good point :)
<TeePOG> i logged in with the new username using ctrl-alt-f2... it worked... then I went back to ctrl-alt-f1, and realised i had no idea how to get back into X
<astecp> ctrl-alt-f<your last console + 1>
<sbalneav> TeePOG: Usually, it's F7
<TeePOG> rebooted from command line, and when i got the the login screen, my username now did the same as the new one: just goes back to login screen
<TeePOG> it's weird
<astecp> check syslogs
<TeePOG> hmmmm
<TeePOG> arno@smith:~$ cat .xsession-errors
<TeePOG> Xsession: X session started for arno at Wed Sep  6 15:40:34 SAST 2006
<ogra> check the users .xsession-errors from the console
<astecp> or the user's .xsession-errors as I think was mentioned before
<TeePOG> did, see?
<ogra> thats all ? 
<TeePOG> yup
<TeePOG> that's the whole file
<ogra> looks like its not starting the session 
<astecp> can any users log in to X?
<TeePOG> not afaik, i tried all of the usernames, same error in .xsession-errors
<ogra> there should be at least some info about the starting apps of the session manager (startkde or whatever that is in KDE)
<TeePOG> well, this all worked [at least for my own username]  until i just rebooted
<TeePOG> now even mine is b0rked
<sbalneav> Morning ogra
<ogra> TeePOG, even from console ?
<ogra> hey sbalneav 
<TeePOG> ogra: i can login to console, nothing else
<ogra> ok
<ogra> try: sudo /etc/init.d/kdm stop
<TeePOG> ok...
<ogra> then run startx and check what happens
<TeePOG> it craps itself and exits
<TeePOG> erm, sorry, language
<ogra> no error messages ? 
<TeePOG> many... how do i copy & paste from that machine to here? i hijacked a Doze machine to get here
<TeePOG> is there an error file for X that I can SCP to this PC?
<ogra> well, .xsession-errors and the Xorg.*.log from /var/log
<TeePOG> ok
<ogra> but the latter wont have anything useful if Xsession already writes to .xsession-errors
<ogra> how did you install KDE ?
<ogra> using the kubuntu-desktop package ? 
<TeePOG> yes ogra, that package
<TeePOG> will give pastebin link just now
<ogra> hm, then it should work ...
<ogra> what does: update-alternatives --list x-session-manager
<ogra> return ?
<TeePOG> brb, checking
<TeePOG> ./usr/bin/gnome-session
<TeePOG> and
<TeePOG> ./usr/bin/startkde
<TeePOG> http://pastebin.ca/162384
<highvoltage> RichEd: my phone stopped ringing just as i got to it
<TeePOG> the salient points are at the end
<highvoltage> RichEd-1: my phone stopped ringing just as i got to it
<RichEd-1> lost my adsl ... just back now ...
<pips1> cu
<hald> How do I get synaptic to install the source code .deb's?
<ogra> wow, that pastebin is evil ... 
<ogra> crashes firefox
<highvoltage> i don't think that's something that hald is supposed to do
<highvoltage> ogra: firefox beta?
<ogra> highvoltage, ?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<cbx33> heheh
<hald> highvoltage: Eh?
<cbx33> I had a site do that earlier
<highvoltage> sorry, it was a joke :)
<ogra> :)
<astecp> | error opening security policy file /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy
<astecp> ^^ looks relevant
<hald> Ah.
<highvoltage> hal as in hardware abstraction layer isn't supposed to install source debs :)
<TeePOG> i have no clue; older and wiser minds than I will need to help
<hald> I've checked the "Source Code" checkbox in the dialog box.
<hald> But I don't see what the next step is.
<ogra> hmm, seems i cant opne that pastebin page
<RichEd> have to go out  ... back in 30 ... was there a EC decision ? someone msg me please
<TeePOG> what is the ubuntu pastebin? there is a .nl one iirc
<RichEd> thanks ... lost my adsl at the end of the meeting
<ogra> RichEd, no EC decision 
<ogra> (there was nothing to decide)
<ogra> TeePOG, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<cbx33> RichEd: 
<cbx33> you still here
<cbx33> we'll have to postpone meeting
<TeePOG> thanks ogra, found it already
<TeePOG> what? that pastebin says "No text given and no image uploaded" three times now
* TeePOG is starting to wonder if this is worth tinkering with, or to just reinstall the box
<ogra> i got it open now
<ogra> but as i said the Xorg log isnt really relevant 
<cbx33> ogra: blog prepared, and primed
<ogra> yay
<ogra> TeePOG, you can try if its a KDE prob with setting the default: 
<ogra> sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
<TeePOG> yes?
<ogra> then select gnome ( you can revert it later)
<ogra> and try again ...
<TeePOG> yes, will do
<TeePOG> brb
<ogra> there is an Xsession etry in your .xsession-errors, so i doubt its X itself that has probs
<ogra> sbalneav, how good is your awk-fu ? 
<ogra> or better do you know about awk replacements ? 
<sbalneav> My awk-fu is primo
* ogra needs to replace all awk calls in that script http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/netscript
<ogra> the installer doesnt have awk :(
<sbalneav> What do you want it replaced with?
<sbalneav> Sed?
<ogra> something the installer has :P
<ogra> sed should be there
<astecp> I'm good at eliminating awk from scripts, lemme have a look :)
<sbalneav> Ummm... And what does the installed have? :):):)
<astecp> textutils
<sbalneav> Is it dash, or bash?
<ogra> sbalneav, if i only knew :)
<ogra> dash
<ogra> or even ash
<ogra> its the tiniest shell we have ...
<TeePOG> it still does the same, the login screen goes black, then returns to login screen
<ogra> hmm. weird
<ogra> sbalneav, sed is there
<TeePOG> i think i should just reinstall and try again
<astecp> DEFAULT_IFACE=$(route -n|grep ^0|sed -e 's/.* //')
<astecp> ^ nice 'n' easy for the first one
<TeePOG> no sleep for the weakened ^.^
<ogra> astecp, looks fine :)
<ogra> thanks !
<ogra> TeePOG, well, a reinstall shuld take you less than 2h even with installing KDE afterwards 
<astecp> IFACE_LIST=$(cat /proc/net/dev|sed -e 's/^ *//' -e 's/:.*//'|grep -Ev '(\||lo|sit)')
<ogra> depends how much you want to tweak 
<ogra> astecp, sexy !
<ogra> tanks a lot !
<TeePOG> yes ogra, i think that's the path of least resistance
<astecp> ogra: awk is one of my pet hates. There's almost *always* a neater way :-)
<ogra> right ...
<ogra> awk is what i know without reading much docs :)
<cbx33> ogra: heheh
<ogra> so i'm quicker with it than trying out sed strings :)
<astecp> ogra: not a vim user then? ;-)
<jsgotangco> hey
<ogra> astecp, vim only user :)
<astecp> ogra: I guess you learned the cleverer tricks that don't require regex quicker than I did then :)
<jsgotangco> hmm is ff in edgy using cairo?
<lucasvo> !seen p1ps
<ubotu> I haven't seen p1ps recently
<jsgotangco> it looks like even gnome terminal does
<ogra> lucasvo, itym pips1
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> !seen pips1
<ubotu> I last saw pips1 (n=philipp@195.216.81.229) 43m 25s ago, quiting: "Ex-Chat"
<lucasvo> oh
<lucasvo> crap
<cbx33> ogra: did you say I should apply for MOTU?
<jsgotangco> you should
<cbx33> Good afternoon LaserJock 
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i will need your help soon
<LaserJock> I see
<cbx33> right guys I'm off
<cbx33> have a good one I'll be back later
<jsgotangco> later
<jsgotangco> i got to split too
* peterpan222 is back (gone 00:32:13)
<jsgotangco> gotta sleep ciao
<LaserJock> when is feature freeze?
<LaserJock> I guess 23:00 tommorow
<gnomefreak> today i thought
<RichEd> LaserJock: did you check your email ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> thanks RichEd
<RichEd> schweet ... 
<LaserJock> ogra: ping?
<ogra> LaserJock, half pong
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, so I'm working on my postinst script to create the menu groups
<LaserJock> ogra: should they be system groups or user groups?
<cbx33> boo
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> you scared me
<cbx33> hi LaserJock
<pygi> jono, :)
<jono> :)
* pygi announces first app using libburn :)
<pygi> ok, second :P
<ogra> wow, thats fast ... when do we get the third ? at :30 ?
<pygi> ogra, lol :)
<pygi> I forgot to count cdrskin as app
<Yagisan> G'day Solaris444 
<Solaris444> hello again!
<Solaris444> Hi all, is anyone here interested in a lab/workshop ticketing system for universities/technical colleges/high schools?
<Yagisan> Solaris444, you might want to chat to someone like highvoltage or ogra about your project
<Yagisan> bye for now
<Solaris444> alright I shall do that and see what they have to say.
* Yagisan -> bed
<Solaris444> thanks for the bump
<Solaris444> yep cya
<Solaris444> sourceforge.net/projects/equil
<Burgwork> Solaris444, gtk or qt?
<Solaris444> java actually.
<Burgwork> hmm, icky
<Burgwork> run on gcj?
<Solaris444> nono not at all
<Solaris444> requires sun 1.5.0+
<Solaris444> uses some of the features only found in that.
<Solaris444> relies on RMI
<Solaris444> It was required to be multiplatform so we went for a widget approach using java.
<pygi> sbalneav, I used libburn over iscsi today :)
<pygi> mhz, hey ho
<mhz> pygi: hi there
<mhz> just sent a reply to Susan's
<pygi> saw it
<mhz> read it?
<pygi> yes
<mhz> so, I got my laptop HD back and running BUT...now the 'desktop HD' is failing :(
<mhz> crapy days so far
<mhz> ohhh, BTW...
<mhz> I could only rescue my HD by using it as a USB HD plugged to the desktop
<pygi> ?
<mhz> so, when I re-installed Edubuntu server, the system considers the NICs from desktop, and when I use the HD in the laptop, it then uses eth2 and ath1, instead of real eth0 and ath0. Any ideas how I can fix that?
* mhz realized. only too late, that it would have been easier and faster to just proceed netinstalling instead of the 'external USB HD way'.
<LaserJock> has anybody installed edgy Edubuntu from a Knot or daily .iso?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: robert day sent me new patches
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah, he told me he was going to. Do they look ok?
<Amaranth> i'm probably going to ditch the generated code and use the .ui files just like i do with glade
<Amaranth> otherwise it looks alright, yeah
<LaserJock> ok
<swhalen> Hello, I'm new here and I have ssome questions. Any help?
<Burgwork> swhalen, what do you need?
<swhalen> well id like to use Diskless Thin Client Booting but I dont have a powerful enough computer to use as a server
<swhalen> is there any other way to distribute packages/updates
<ogra_> you dont need a powerful computer for booting ... the amount of power the server needs depends completely on the desktop environment you use
<LaserJock> ogra_: did you see my question hrs ago about wether to create system or user groups for the menus?
<ogra_> what do we gain by having them as system groups ?
<swhalen> "Install to hard disk", will install a terminal server. Use this option if you'd like to boot from diskless thin clients into this machine. Note that a terminal server requires at least 150MB RAM per client that will be logging into this server. The server will also need a powerful CPU, such as an Intel Xeon processor. To install a terminal server, simply press ENTER here.
<swhalen> its in the geting started docs
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> and its true for a default edubuntu
<ogra_> but you can tweak it ... i.e. use xfce instead of gnome
<ogra_> xfce as desktop will be fine with < 100MB
<LaserJock> ogra_: well, I didn't know if there was a policy that packages needed to do system groups
<LaserJock> ogra_: so that the user groups are just created by the user/admin
<ogra_> how would you create usergroups without users ` 
<ogra_> ?
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra_> just make them system groups 
<LaserJock> the only reason I thought about not doing system groups is I think they aren't viewable by default in the GUI user interface
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> there is an xml config but i have no idea how to add stuff dynamically
<swhalen> how much space does a workspace install use?
<LaserJock> ogra_: I'll just go for system for now
<ogra_> (i patched gnome-system-tools for the ltsp localdev group)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> swhalen, ~2.5Gb iirc
<swhalen> and where are sudo attempts logged?
<ogra> in auth.log
<swhalen> thats all i needed. thank you
<ogra> :)
<swhalen> you guys have the the most helpful *ubuntu channel
<ogra> heh, thanks :)
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, another odd question, I'm really not sure what to do for debian/copyright
<ogra> your package, your copyright i'd say
<ogra> i mean yu created all the content
<ogra> *you
<ogra> so why shouldnt you hole the copyright
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra> *hold
<LaserJock> well, it seems kinda silly to license it, but I suppose I could just GPL it
<ogra> right
<ogra> it needs a license to pass NEW
<LaserJock> right, that's why I asked
<LaserJock> hmm, I can't seem to change permissions in debian/rules
<LaserJock> do you have to do that postinst?
<ogra> eh ? 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> right
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i first read : I can't seem to change permissions of debian/rules
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> for this to work we need 640 I think
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<cbx33> I saw the upload
<ogra> :)
<pygi> cbx33, ;)
<cbx33> will send out my blog post
<cbx33> in a little hile
<cbx33> when is the official FF time
<cbx33> 12 midnight tomorrow?
* ogra is done with the last spec ... 
<ogra> 23:00 UTC
<cbx33> ogra, so we're all done?
<pygi> nice ogra :)
<LaserJock> :(
<cbx33> ogra, congrats man
<cbx33> I know you had a lot to do
<ogra> i need to merge the code into the ltsp package
<pygi> we could discuss iscsi userspace lib then :)
<cbx33> and I kept taking tonnes of your tim
<ogra> but then we're all done ...
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> LaserJock, what#s up?
<ogra> there are still a ton of patches from debian i'll review and merge tomorrow
<LaserJock> my spec isn't done :/
<LaserJock> stupid real  life
<LaserJock> I spent the morning at the dentist
<LaserJock> and my Edubuntu machine has been down for almost 3 days
<ogra> you have still 25h
<cbx33> LaserJock, that sux
<LaserJock> well, I had most of it done a while ago
<LaserJock> and then everything got in the way
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to remove the groups in prerm not postrm
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not entirely sure what to make this thing dep on
<LaserJock> I would assume menu-xdg
<ogra> no
<ogra> menu-xdg breaks the gnome menu
<LaserJock> oh
<ogra> dont depend on that package
<LaserJock> so would gnome-menus work?
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra> i think so
<LaserJock> Description: group-driven menus for Edubuntu
<LaserJock>  This package installs various menus that are mapped to user groups so that
<LaserJock>  when a user is added to one of these groups their menu correspondingly changes.
<LaserJock> yuck, that sounds terrible :(
<Burgwork> installs different menus for different use cases. These menus are mapped to specific user gruops
<ogra> LaserJock, Kamion speaks very good english, he's always my first choice for formulations :)
#edubuntu 2006-09-07
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> ogra: http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/edubuntu/
<LaserJock> the menu files aren't really very cool ATM
<LaserJock> but I just, in the last couple minutes, got an Edubuntu 6.06.1 install to finally work
<LaserJock> so I can look at the menu and get some better .menus
<swhalen> does anyone know of a good web filter?
<LaserJock> for what?
<LaserJock> like a content filter?
<swhalen> yes
<LaserJock> dansguardian is one
<LaserJock> Amaranth is working on a nice new one for Edgy
<LaserJock> but I don't think it's backported to dapper
<LaserJock> swhalen: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=207008 is a decent HowTo for setting up dansguardian
<swhalen> thanks
<swhalen> are there any docs on deploying this network wide?
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<Burgwork> ogra, you really are trying to get into UWN this week. All these new features
<ogra> Burgwork, mostly only very roughly tested ...
<ogra> i'd rather like a big announcement before knot3 :)
<Burgwork> well, I plan on writing a little section about LTSP this week, if you don't mind
<Burgwork> the Knot3 page will also include a section on it
<ogra> especially the installer stuff i just commited is a bit risky 
<ogra> cool
<Burgwork> given you were bitching about Edubuntu having nothing ;)
<Burgwork> can you tell me all the people involved in the work?
<ogra> ltsp ? 
<ogra> thats only me 
<Burgwork> I see other branches being merged
<ogra> and vagrant cascadian from freegeek 
<ogra> but he cares rather for making my stuff work in debian
<ogra> and sends the fixes back to me
<Burgwork> just wanted to make certain I got everybody
<Burgwork> accuracy and all that
<ogra> oh, sbalneav helped a lot as well 
<ogra> cbx33 deserves a HUGE praise for completing SCP
<ogra>  GF gets angry ... i need to stop for the day (worked >20h the last two days)
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm just adding the right menus, etc.
<LaserJock> I'll have an update source package in a little bit
<LaserJock> shall I email it to you so you can check it out when you get up?
<LaserJock> or should I even upload it to REVU?
<ogra> yeah, that'd be nice
<ogra> nah ... mail is fine
<LaserJock> ok, I want to test it a little bit more and then I'll send it to you
<LaserJock> I've got 8 groups right now
<ogra> nice
<ogra> but anyway, i fall asleep over my keyboard ...
<ogra> night all
<LaserJock> good  night
<pygi> night
<techlife> does anyone know if there is a specific automatix package for edubuntu or can I just use the one for dapper?
<Amaranth> oh dear
<mhz> I was about to answer
<mhz> :(
<LaserJock> :-)
* mhz_off goes back to home
<mhz_off> see ya tomorrow, sometime after 17 UTC
* LaserJock does a dance around the lab
<sbalneav> Evening all
<TeePOG> morning all
<highvoltage> morning TeePOG 
<TeePOG> morning highvoltage, how goes?
* TeePOG is making another attempt at getting the LTSP to work
<highvoltage> good thanks TeePOG 
<TeePOG> ^^^ = reinstalling
<highvoltage> TeePOG: did you try that command I sent you yesterday?
<TeePOG> yes highvoltage, did nada
<highvoltage> :/
<TeePOG> in the end, not even my own username would log me into X
<TeePOG> ergo, reinstall
<TeePOG> luckily i didn't have anything else going on that box
<RichEd> hi TeePOG :)
<RichEd> Yesterday got out of control ... I didn't get back to you ... sorry
<TeePOG> btw highvoltage, would you have any idea why the repos [even with all the universe/multiverse repos enabled]  cannot find an installation candidate for webmin?
<TeePOG> hi RichEd mate, no worries
<Burgundavia> TeePOG: that would be because it has been removed
<TeePOG> hmm, ok... it's been my friend and companion since forever :-(
<Burgundavia> it is old, buggy and mostly dead upstream
<Burgundavia> debian removed and thus we followed
<TeePOG> hmm... any alternatives?
<Burgundavia> not that I know of
<RichEd> hi Burgundavia ... JaneW and I were chatting about you on the weekend :)
<TeePOG> darn
<Burgundavia> really?
<Burgundavia> what sort of evil things were you saying about me?
<RichEd> She ran in a ladies race sponsored by a local Afrikaans newpaper ... and got a free sun visor with a big logo "Die Burger"
<RichEd> :)
<Burgundavia> I see
<Burgundavia> I have a "Happiness is a warm burger bun" hat
<RichEd> spankin' :)
<Burgundavia> TeePOG: this is why webmin got removed: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=webmin
<TeePOG> *reading*
<TeePOG> sheesh, ok
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<RichEd> Meester Cee Bee Exxx Thiryyyy Threeeee !
<RichEd> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> RichEd: did you want to meet today
<RichEd> cbx33: how's your jsut past midday looking ?
<cbx33> yeh should be cool
<cbx33> ogra: !!!
<cbx33> hey dude
<cbx33> so I'm guessing we'll know by the end of the day about SCP and main ?
<jsgotangco> did you make an inclusion report?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> and it's in the queue
<cbx33> it's just waiting now :S
<cbx33> I wish I'd have been able to get it in sooner
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> but time was not on my side 
<jsgotangco> well it seems to be a nice addition to give it an exeception for further review
<cbx33> do they do exceptions?
<cbx33> I thought FF was FF !
<jsgotangco> g-a-i used to have updates a week just before release of dapper
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> so there is hope
<jsgotangco> but that's because g-a-i is an integral part of the distribution
<cbx33> yeh.....
<cbx33> I suppose it would depend on how badly it was needed
<cbx33> or wanted
<cbx33> ping Seveas 
<Seveas> pong cbx33 
<tsurc> Anyone know how i can add a user on a NIS server to "fuse" and get a NIS client to reconise it.
<tsurc> I'm having problems with LDA and NIS authenication
<ogra> we dont support LDA yet (apart from edgy), are you running ubuntu ltsp or ltsp.org ltsp ?
<tsurc> ltsp.org..... (sorry, but needs must)
<ogra> i can only talk about ubutu muecow's LDA implementation which works quite differently (communicates through ssh etc) ... but i imagine just adding the user to the fuse group should suffice 
<ogra> is the fuse module loaded ? 
<RichEd> hi ogra ...
<ogra> hm ... 
<ogra> doesnt look like we'll get the fully-automatic-swapwerver from rodrigo :/
<ogra> *swapserver
<RichEd> ogra: is the freeze in place ? will it help to send +evolution (mail & calendar) to laserjock ?
<ogra> RichEd, FF is in place at 23:00 UTC
<ogra> still plenty of time 
<RichEd> Yesterday people were debating wed or thu 23:00 ... thanx
<cbx33> Sorry Seveas, I just got back to the office
<ogra> my bigger prob is the swapserver stuff ... rodrigo didnt want to show me his code so i cant finish anything ... but we wont be able to enable local devices by default without it (it will fail on very lowend clients)
<cbx33> ogra: :(
<cbx33> Seveas: is there any documentation on the new usplash image format...like pallete entries if there are still pallete entries etc :p
<ogra> i'm pondering a workaround but that will cost time and i need to review debian patches for ltsp as well :(
<tsurc> tried adding a fuse group on the NIS server (making sure to give it the same gid as the app servers) and adding users to it.
<cbx33> ogra: you're definitely gonna deserve tomorrow :p
<tsurc> but it looks as if NIS is only transmiting the main group of the user
<Seveas> cbx33, usplash-dev contains documentation
<cbx33> ogra: jsgotangco said in the past things have been allowed to be exceptions to FF.... g-a-i for example, think that could be the case for SCP?
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> Seveas: you're a legend thank you
<ogra> cbx33, yes, but thats for features that are not started on feature freeze day :)
<cbx33> hehe
<Seveas> cbx33, usplash has changed since last upload though
<tsurc> which means I will have to add the whole school to fuse on each of our app servers /etc/group file
<cbx33> Seveas: I'm just gonna grab it now
<ogra> what i would implement would totally differ from the spec
<Seveas> so you'll need to re-read it for 0.4-18
<cbx33> Seveas: that's fine....the current docs are good right?
<pygi> highvoltage, poke poke?
<Seveas> cbx33, almost -- there are some essentials missing
<Seveas> will pastbin the latest
<ogra> tsurc, well, thats surely easily scriptable ... but are you sure there is no way to make NIS supply other groups  ?
<cbx33> thanks Seveas we're working onthe edubuntu usplash tonight
<Seveas> cbx33, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22800
<Seveas> multi-resolution themes ftw
<tsurc> ogra: I know.. I really didn't want to have to do it like that if i can help it. If I create another user in 3 months It'll end up taking 10 mins instead of 2... ouch
<ogra> there must be a way to supply more groups through nis ...
<tsurc> ogra: plus NIS should be able to handle it! I just can't figure out why
<cbx33> Seveas: ftw ?
<ogra> for the world ? 
<Seveas> "for the win"
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok
<Seveas> "for teh win" actually
* cbx33 just used xubuntu for the first time
<ogra> using the new ldm  ? wiht session selection ? 
<astecp> flip the walrus!
<cbx33> ogra: what are our restrictions on the ldm login screen
<ogra> cbx33, theme wise ? 
<cbx33> well...yeh if you want to call it a theme
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> the wallpaper for the ldm login
<ogra> only plain colors (no gradients) no fullscreen wallpaper
<cbx33> is it an image?
<ogra> the logo is
<cbx33> i see
<ogra> you can use transparency in the logo ... i.e. have a glowing effect ... but thas about it ... apart from that you can tweak 5 colors
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> and the session/lang button images
<cbx33> how is it put togther...?
<cbx33> like gdm themes?
<cbx33> hi jono 
<ogra> no
<ogra> cbx33, have a look at /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> RichEd: one hour or two?
<ogra> the colors file in the theme dirs are responsible for color schemes
<ogra> you have:
<ogra> frame_color = "#000000"
<ogra> foreground = "#523921"
<ogra> background = "#ffffde"
<ogra> clockforeground = "#ffffff"
<ogra> loginwin_color = "#f7ebd6"
<RichEd> cbx33: 2 please ?
<cbx33> RichEd: np
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> where clockforeground is ignored since we dont show the clock
<cbx33> that's all I needed
<ogra> if you exchange graphics, just make sure they have the same name 
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> are you going to handle packaging of artwork
<ogra> background.png, icon-language.png, icon-session.png and shutdown.png
<cbx33> of would you like me to have a stab
<ogra> as you like
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> doesnt look like artwork will happen before FF anyway :)
<cbx33> ogra: no it won't
<cbx33> but we should have a good idea of what it will look like by the end of today....end of friday at latest
<Seveas> cbx33, artwork packages need to depend on usplash-dev and they should not ship generated .c files
<Seveas> (just a quick hint, that's not in the docs yet)
<ogra> "generated .c files" ?
<cbx33> you mean, you want the png
<cbx33> morning Amaranth 
<Amaranth> ugh :P
<Amaranth> too early :P
<cbx33> howz willow
<Seveas> ogra, theme sources ship .png and .bdg files. Theme binaries ship c-code generated from them. Sources don't ship the generated C code, but depend on usplash-dev
<ogra> ah, i didnt know it generates .c files
<cbx33> Seveas: that's cool - I'll make sure :D
<cbx33> ogra: is our artwork pacakge up to date wrt the ubuntu one?
<Seveas> cbx33, if you need help crating a theme, just poke me -- I'd also be happy to review the theme for "usplash correctness"
<ogra> why should it ? 
<ogra> we dont care about ubuntu artwork at all, do we ? 
<cbx33> heh ok
<cbx33> Seveas: you're a start
<cbx33> thanks
<tsurc> fyi I think I may have cracked it.. in the /etc/group file on the app server there is fuse just above + so anything looking to autenticate if a user is a member of the fuse group is matching with the local fuse group and not the NIS shared fuse group. Does that sound ok to anyone. Or is it a load of tosh
<tsurc> well that didn't work then
<tsurc> surely someone somewhere has got LDA  working with NIS
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<RichEd> baddapong cbx33 
<cbx33> 10 mins?
<RichEd> 20 ... busy right now with charles email ... to you & jono ... will check back here in 10 ...
<cbx33> ok 20 is fine
<jono> :)
<RichEd> cbx33 & jono ... proof reading now ... my 1 paragraph intro has grown into an essay :)
<jono> :P
<cbx33> oh dear !
<RichEd> cbx33 & jono : you have mail
<cbx33> okk
<pygi> jono, lol, interesting blog post :)
* RichEd heads off to get a mince & chilli pizza slice from the fridge
<RichEd> cbx33: will be ready for you in 10 mins 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> jono: ROGET REDHAT
* RichEd will read jono's blog post over some pizza 
<cbx33> BILLY BLUE HAT !
* ogra has a fully-automatic-swapserver script written in 24 lines and ponders if he should add it ...
<cbx33> ogra: do it 
<cbx33> do it
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i'm not sure 
<cbx33> what are your reservations
<cbx33> ?
<ogra> its way safer than usual swap (100% userspace) 
<ogra> but it will only swapon from ldm ...
<ogra> so we wouldnt gain anything to boot small clients ...
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> my target for the swapserver was to be able to boot 24Mb clients
<ogra> instead of 48Mb
<cbx33> it's still worth it
<cbx33> it's an improvement....can still be tooted can't it!
<cbx33> after all we're trying to prove how good we are :p
<cbx33> Edubuntu Rocks and all that :p
<jono> cbx33, :P
<jono> RichEd, :)
<cbx33> jono: I'm guessing you read those books too?
<jono> cbx33, yep :)
<cbx33> just outta interest how old are you?
<jono> cbx33, 26 :)
<jono> 27 in 10 days :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> jono: yours and mine are pretty close
* cbx33 is 25 on sept 24th :p
<jono> cool :)
<cbx33> ogra: did you see my pm?
<jono> cbx33, are you part of ubuntu-uk ?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> no :p
<cbx33> i don;t think so
<cbx33> i guess I should be
<jono> cbx33, I am keen for ubuntu-uk to be a strong LoCo team, and would be good to have you on board :)
<cbx33> sure
<jono> I am gonna get some lunch and a shower and catch up on the LoCo mails :)
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> highvoltage, you alive? :)
<cbx33> ping RichEd 
<RichEd> pong cbx33 
<paolob> Hi guys! I'using dapper, and I have a problem with the students that work on the clients: sometimes, mistakenly, they exit the gnome session hibernating the server. Is it possible to remove this possibility? thank you
<ogra> uninstall gnome-power-manager
<ogra> i just fixed the bug in edgy 3h ago :)
<paolob> ogra, thank you. what else does that imply?
<ogra> for dapper uninstalling it is the easiest workaround for now
<ogra> i will check how intrusive it is to backport it to dapper, but no promises
<paolob> ogra, no, I meant what else does uninstalling gnome-power-manager imply?
<ogra> unless you run a laptop as server it will do nothing 
<ogra> (well, it will disable hibernate/suspend on the server itself as well)
<paolob> ogra, with gnome-power-manager it uninstall gnome-session too
<ogra> you can also unset the can_hibernate/can_suspend gconf keys of gnome-power-manager for every user, but thats a lot of work
<ogra> ugh, i didnt know seb128 made it a dependency
<ogra> damned
<paolob> ogra, I can't do that, I have about 500 users!
<ogra> hrm
<paolob> ogra, and if I dpkg -r gnome-power-manager? does it honour dependencies?
<ogra> are you able to compile a package ? i have no dapper system around, but i think the patch i added to the edgy package today might apply to dapper
<paolob> ogra, sorry, no :-(
<cbx33> ogra: anything I can do?
<paolob> ogra, dpkg -r --force-depends gnome-power-manager ?
<ogra> no that will break
<ogra> cbx33, do you have a dapper chroot/pbuilder ? 
<pygi> who wanna test libburn? :)
<cbx33> ah actually no, but I can make one pretty quick
<cbx33> I have a dapper machine ? that I'm on at the moment
<ogra> cbx33, paolob has the old suspend/hibernate buttons are shown in thin client logout dialogs 
<ogra> problem
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> if the power supply wasn't bust in it....I have a....oh hang on
<cbx33> lemme try somthing
<ogra> i added a patch to the edgy package today that fixes it ... but have no dapper chroot around and dont have the time to play with that atm
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll see if I can dig one out
<ogra> if that patch applies to the dapper package that would help him ...
<cbx33> hang on lemme try something
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/70-suppress-pm-actions-on-ltsp.patch
<cbx33> oh hell, why not
<cbx33> gimme 2 secs guys
<ogra> just drop that into the debian/patches dir of the dapper g-p-m source package and try a rebuild
<cbx33> did you want me to test it too?
<ogra> if you have that bug ... else i'd suggest paolob tests it ...
<cbx33> so you wnt me to give paolob a .deb
<ogra> if you dont raise the version number or anything, the next apt-get upgrade will remove it and replace it with the one from the archive so its easy to clean up if it doesnt work
<cbx33> ah ok
<ogra> cbx33, right 
<paolob> cbx33, It would be wonderful
<cbx33> I have a dapper system on my laptop
<cbx33> I'll just patch and build
<ogra> exactly
<paolob> cbx33, how long will it take?
<ogra> its a quite trivial patch ...
<ogra> but if the file its written for changed between the releases it wont apply
<cbx33> paolob: hopefully just a few minutes
<paolob> cbx33, ok, I'm waiting it. Thank yo!
<paolob> s/yo/you/
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/163340
<cbx33> ogra that's the source package build
<ogra> hmm, the patch applies fine
<paolob> ogra, cbx33 I must go, I'll ask you later, thank you!
* paolob goes to everyday school work
<paolob> bye
<ogra> cbx33, thanks ...
<cbx33> np
<RichEd> cbx33: mail sent  ... let me know when you have the spreadsheet open
<cbx33> I'm just getting a dapper chroot
<ogra> you would have to dpkg-buildpackage it with your key ...
<cbx33> I'll pbuild it
<cbx33> ogra: that package is odd.....has some strange permissions on it
<cbx33> never seen that in a package before
<ogra> you need to rebiuld the source package anyway
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> else it will fail on the missing gpg key
<cbx33> I didn't build with my key....did you actually want me to build the package? !
<ogra> that test was fine already 
<ogra> since it seems not so urgent (paolob is gone) it can wait until i have time fiddling with dapper chroots
<ogra> *time for
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<cbx33> heh !
<RichEd> ping cbx33 : can you give me 10 mins of your time ?
<RichEd> cbx33: then I'll update & refine and we can chat more later
<RichEd> ping anyone ... am I alive in here ?
<cbx33> RichEd: I'm here
<RichEd> cool ... is the ss open ?
<cbx33> just doing it
<RichEd> okay ... off to window ...
<highvoltage> my word
<RichEd> no highvoltage "my Open Office Word Processor" ... get with the programme
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> I missed pygi by only 8 minutes this time
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey cbx33 
<ogra> sbalneav, hey
<pygi> hello ogra, sbalneav 
<sbalneav> ogra: hello!
<ogra> sbalneav, what do you think: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-swapon
<sbalneav> Hey, last night, I got the ltsp-build-client to go....
<sbalneav> but I had to comment out the linking of /proc/self/fd in 010-proc-mount in the plugins dir.
<sbalneav> Hey pygi!  Sorry, been really busy here at work lately, but did you say yesterday you got libburn going over iscsi?
<pygi> sbalneav, I erased and burner iso file on remote burner :)
<pygi> burned*
<sbalneav> Cool.
<sbalneav> How'd you do it?
<pygi> but that solution won't work for us, it requires some kernel stuff and thingy
<pygi> we still need that userspace lib :)
<sbalneav> Ah, that was my worry.
<sbalneav> I had asked the other day, but I think you'd left already.
<pygi> eh :-/
<pygi> we must find someone to implement library like that :)
<sbalneav> in cdrecord, there's an rscsi.c that implements some of that sort of stuff.  How "clean room" are you trying to be?  If we take some of that from the gpl'd version of cdrecord would that be ok? Or are you trying to be completely cdrecord-clean?
<pygi> 1)completely clean from schily code
<pygi> 2)We won't be implementing this directly into libburn anyway most probably
<sbalneav> Sure, but as a basis for a separate library.
<pygi> right, I'd be glad if we could go without schily :)
<sbalneav> OK, well, we'll need to find a specification for the iSCSI protocol then, and see if we can implement it from there.
<pygi> indeed, libuiscsi :)
<pygi> I have yet to see userspace implementation of iscsi
<pygi> and if it is doable, we might just be the first one to have it
<pygi> I am sure a lot of people would like to see that
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<pygi> sbalneav, you alive? :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Ah, so you're enabling the swap after people log in?  Smart.
<ogra> well, not really
<sbalneav> pygi: yeah, sorry, 15 conversations going on.
<pygi> sbalneav, ok, later then
<ogra> sbalneav, but the best solution for the current situation
<sbalneav> So, this is using a stock nbd-swap setup, and not mods to the swap server?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> its a bit odd, since it doesnt help to boot < 48M machines
<ogra> but apart from that its way more beautiful than any other solution
<sbalneav> It's certainly workable.  So the mods to the swap server will be for edgy+1?
<ogra> right, thats the idea
<ogra> so we do have *something* at least
<cbx33> ogra: good decision bud !
<ogra> localdev on an 48M macine will break i guess ...
<ogra> (without any swap)
<ogra> now the big question ... 
<ogra> do i enable it i our default lts.conf ? 
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ogra: I'm gonna have to skoot in a while, are you going to poke pitti and seb128 later?
<ogra> 10 clients will eat 320M on the servers disk
<ogra> cbx33, yes
<ogra> will do
<cbx33> thanks ogra :D
<sbalneav> ok, this would be the perfect place for a session_start and session_end script in ldm.  We'll want to spec that in for the next version as well.
<cbx33> you're the best
<ogra> sbalneav, nope
<ogra> sbalneav, we dont want to swapoff ...
<cbx33> ogra: just need to add that packaging bit to make it restart/reload dbus
<ogra> sbalneav, imagine if something is in the swap and you just kill the nbd-server 
<sbalneav> hmmm.
<sbalneav> Good point.
<ogra> it will hardlock ...
<ogra> hmm
<bddebian> Howdy
<_acesuares_> !seen riched
<ubotu> RichEd is on IRC right now!
<RichEd> _acesuares_: hello :)
<_acesuares_> RichEd ? u there ?
<_acesuares_> ah hi!
<RichEd> yep ... let me read your email again ... give me a minute ...
<_acesuares_> Had a chance to think about the seminar 4+5 oktober 2006  in Curacao ?
<_acesuares_> !livecd
<ubotu> Ubuntu Dapper 'Desktop' CD contains a Live CD (Ubuntu that runs straight off the CD and RAM) with an install option. Breezy's Live CD contained no install.
<_acesuares_> !livecd edubuntu
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about livecd edubuntu - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> _acesuares_:  ping into pvt window
<RichEd> hi LaserJock : final basic menu list sent today via email
<LaserJock> mhm
<acesuares> RichEd waht is that ping into pvt window
<LaserJock> RichEd: it's longer than I had anticipated
<LaserJock> ogra: pingo?
<RichEd> feel free to trim it down with your laser
<RichEd> acesuares:  in dialogue box ... question : hello ... okay to get my head straight ... you said netherland yesterday ... I said S America ... is Curacao a dutch colony in South America ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: I put a package up for ogra and everybody to test at: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/edubuntu/
<acesuares> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curaao
<cbx33> hey everyone
<acesuares> RichEd: there are mapos in the wikipedia.
* cbx33 gets to work
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<acesuares> It's NOT south america (altough it's 70 km off the coast of Venzuela)
<cbx33> Hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> I have something to show you
<cbx33> give me a minute
<cbx33> see if you laugh
<acesuares> it's NOT a colony but a part of a seperate counter in the Kongdom of the Netherlands.
<RichEd> Okay acesuares : I'll respond to the email with comments 
<acesuares> But apart from that, yes, it's a Colony of the netherlands in South America
<acesuares> counter- country
<acesuares> okay RichEd I'll wait.
<RichEd> Thanks for the explanation ... I'm not being insensitive, just looking for broad brushstrokes now ... to get my bearings. Can drill into specifics later.
<RichEd> As a quick response, the best bet will be one of our loco members ... A Local Community person who lives close by. We have no formal offices near you.
<RichEd> I'll do some digging and mail you back with suggestions.
<acesuares> RichEd, we will fly anyone in, if the budget permits.
<acesuares> We would be happy with loco members but they need to be fluent in english or dutch
<RichEd> Well that makes it easier. Thanks. Let me explore a bit.
<acesuares> we do also speak spanish most of us so a spanish/english speaker can be okay
<acesuares> Basically, I am the closest to the Local Community person you cna get - see http://www.luna.suares.an
<acesuares> I also haver the priviliege to work together with a larger organisation who pays and organises the seminar.
<acesuares> I am just trying to fill up the bit about Open Source end Free Software.
<RichEd> I'll mail you a profile set of questions ... to get an idea of the audience and level. We'll look for the best fit in terms of getting results 1) comunicating a good understanding and 2) actions which can be carried forwards.
<RichEd> In terms of "close relationships" or "similar commercial / education profile" what country or countrys are a good match ?
<acesuares> This is a very difficult question.
<RichEd> (I would like to understand hurdles for Open Source).
<RichEd> I'll save it for the mail then.
<acesuares> On one hand, we tend to get most educational material from the dutch
* RichEd listens
<acesuares> however, we are far behind in hard3ware and IT acceptance.
<acesuares> FOr instance, 27 Pentium I, 90 MHz on a school for 12-15 year people.
<RichEd> That is not a bad thing :) A mature market usually has embedded forces that are difficult to change. A fresh market usually sees open source as a good proposition.
<acesuares> On another level, we look at America - bachelor and masters degreess at the university/higher education
<TeePOG> evening all
<acesuares> The mentality is largely south american, the word 'manjana' has it's own connotation here
<acesuares> Then there is also a large group of black poeple (the majority) who tends to be in the poorer demographics
<RichEd> Okay ... I will bring another person into the conversation. Mauricio mhz from Chile. He speaks Spanish & English. He knows LAms School & University Education issues wel.
<acesuares> so, the whole imagery and language for most dutch educational software does not represent local images
<acesuares> Okay.
<RichEd> He knows of many government programs ... if we can prepare conversation links for future relationships, we will have more success.
<RichEd> Wait for the mail :) will be later tonight or tomorrow morning. (my time) 
<acesuares> Okay, anyway, we have no bearings with LAms Schools and University Education.
<acesuares> Generally, I would not invite South American people to lecture, but I am not excluding anyone till I hear there story.
<acesuares> It's just that for instance, if I tell the director of the school of a succesfullprject in Namibia (schoolnet)
<acesuares> then the reaction is - ah that's namibia, where the people are poor
<acesuares> tell me about a succesfull project in Europe or America, then I;ll listen
<RichEd> comment: And I would not propose a person until we have an agreed fit.
<acesuares> very racist people here, on that level. Not the common people, but the higher up the more tendency towards whiteness there is.
<acesuares> Fortunately, the OS movement is not that racist and Edubuntu is Linux for 'people' >:-)
<RichEd> Okay that is some good background for me to ask the right questions. Based on the fact that you could cover the cost of a visitor (reaonable low-budget) we can be flexbile.
<pygi> !!!
<acesuares> hi pygi !!!
<pygi> hey ho
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<acesuares> RichEd, I'll wait for your mail. Please don't forget or I'll come harassing you at IRC :-)
<RichEd> I have some background in Racism :) past = aparthied South Africa and present = New South Africa with new eilte class and confused views about the future.
<RichEd> So, I will be able to understand, and guide.
<acesuares> RichEd: hey - that's good. Wasn't Sout Africa populated by Dutch Speaking individuals that supported apartheid, whiuch itself is a dutch word ? 
<acesuares> look at www.herensiadisklabitut.com for an exposition on slave trade and the consequences on our island...
<acesuares> sse ya later, RichEd, gotta go now, I'll wait for the mail
<RichEd> acesuares: That's about 20% of the story ... it is not an easy IRC topic ... but what is probably best to take away is that: We had probably the most embedded and entrenched set of racist laws in the world, which we have overcome peacefully.
* acesuares sets status to 'even more away'
<RichEd> Lots of problems, but more success than failures.
<highvoltage> 4
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<pygi> highvoltage, poke, you have time?
<highvoltage> pygi: yes :)
<pygi> you on dapper?
<highvoltage> pygi: I missed you by 8 minutes this afternoon!
<pygi> ah :-/
<pygi> highvoltage, are you on dapper or edgy?
<highvoltage> edgy from about 2 weeks ago
<pygi> ok, so now listen and execute :)
<highvoltage> but i have an edubuntu knot 2 cd on my disk
<highvoltage> that sounds dangerous :)
<pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org
<pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org libburn
<pygi> (second one :P)
<pygi> cd libburn/trunk
<pygi> boostrap
<pygi> ./configure --disable-static
<pygi> make
<pygi> sudo make install
<pygi> once you are done with that, we'll continue :)
<cbx33> Right I'm off to my windows machine to make some artwork
<cbx33> bllleeeuuggghhh
<highvoltage> pygi: ok. i'll ping you :)
<pygi> highvoltage, oki :)
<cbx33> *bah* damn windows update
<cbx33> why did wine break so I can't use photoshop anymore
<pygi> highvoltage, you done? :)
<Amaranth> ogra: So, I have a package for willowng that works well except for the error pages, is it worth uploading?
<ogra> Amaranth, sure
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<ogra> gah ... LaserJock is gone ..
<pygi> highvoltage, poke, poke :P
<ogra> Amaranth, what does "except for the error pages" mean ? 
<ogra> we dont have them at all ? the custom ones dont work ...
<ogra> the html is broken ...
<Amaranth> ogra: Instead of an error page for blocked stuff you get some weird header output
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra> thats fine ...
<ogra> its a bug ... :)
<ogra> enough time to fix it if thats the only issue
<ogra> what about bayesian ? 
<Amaranth> well, that and making that checkbox work
<Amaranth> it gives you the broken error page too
<ogra> well, thats only an iptables rule ...
<Amaranth> oh, you want to do transparent proxying now?
<ogra> no
<ogra> i want to block port 80 and make it only useable by the willowng user ...
<Amaranth> alright, then it's a hack for firefox that likely won't be accepted, debconf keys, gconf keys, and blocking port 80
<Jon335> Hi guys, I just set Edubuntu up on a computer to help me teach my siblings about computers. Thanks alot!
<ogra> Amaranth, no
<ogra> Amaranth, i *only* want to do the iptables rule
<Amaranth> ogra: Oh.
<ogra> no tweaking of app settings
<Amaranth> ogra: So you want to leave users to figure out how to make it work?
<ogra> thats up to the admin
<Amaranth> user==admin for a family computer
<ogra> its written on the checkbox, isnt it ?
<cbx33> ogra, LaserJock is looking for you
<ogra> cbx33, yes, i saw that
<cbx33> he has written the edubuntu pacakge
<cbx33> for menus
<ogra> i wonder why he doesnt upload it
<cbx33> to universe?
<ogra> we'll need it anyway at some point
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> I told him to do that
<cbx33> any news from pitti/seb128 ?
<ogra> nope
<Amaranth> ogra: I don't see how setting it up automatically can hurt though.
* TeePOG will brb, rebooting
<ogra> Amaranth, youre touching user settings ...
<ogra> thats not nice ...
<Amaranth> no i'm not, i'm touching system settings
<Amaranth> i can do firefox without touching the user profile
<Amaranth> thus "hack"
<ogra> could you ask iwj what he thinks about it ? he's the firefox guy
<Amaranth> alright
<cbx33> ogra: what were you saying about touching a file to restart dbus?
<ogra> there is something you can touch like /var/run/reboot_required
<ogra> look at other ackages that use dbus ...
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<ogra> LaserJock, pong
<ogra> why dont you just upload it =
<ogra> ?
<LaserJock> ogra: hi
<LaserJock> ogra: I wanted another MOTU to check it out first
<LaserJock> it's not a big complicated package I suppose
<ogra> it will go through NEW anyway ... you will have an archive admin checking it ;)
<LaserJock> ok, uploading then :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<pygi> highvoltage, I'll eat you if you don't respond soon :)
<highvoltage> pygi: pong pong!!!
<LaserJock> ogra: do you want it in Main for Edgy?
<pygi> highvoltage, so are you done with the above steps? :)
<highvoltage> pygi: my connection is seriously dodgy, seems like it is at it's worst this time of day
<ogra> LaserJock, lets see 
<highvoltage> pygi: not yet, struggling a bit with my e-mail first
<pygi> ahm,oki then :)
<ogra> LaserJock, i dont think pitti has time for MIRs
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, that's what I kinda figured
<ogra> so only if we get approval to move it after FF
<pygi> highvoltage, just poke me if you are done in the next 80 years or so :P
<ogra> but having it in the archive wont hurt at all
<Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.3/deb-src
<LaserJock> ok, I'm fine either way, it isn't a "killer" app quite yet, but I think it would work better installed by default
<LaserJock> :-)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: what is it?
<LaserJock> edubuntu-menus
<LaserJock> if we can put some menu-editing front-end to it it will be much better
<Amaranth> ah :)
<cbx33> LaserJock don;t forget me :p
<Amaranth> did you ever figure out how to work out of the problem i explained or did you decide it was Somebody Else's Problem? :)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: which problem?
<Amaranth> the fun merging
<sbalneav> Ahh, SEP.
<ogra> Amaranth, uploaded 
<cbx33> I prefer, NMP
<cbx33> Not My Problem
<Amaranth> merging the student and teacher menus, for example
<cbx33> ogra this wallpaper is progressing nicely
<LaserJock> Amaranth: well, it turns out that xdg works pretty well
<cbx33> :)
<Amaranth> (along with merging user changes)
<ogra> Amaranth, btw, now that you got some money from SoC to be able to travel, how about getting you key signed :P
<Amaranth> ogra: hehe, i'm broke :P
<ogra> haha
<Amaranth> two weeks or so i should get more
<cbx33> you just got SoC...:p
<ogra> there is still money to come ...
<Amaranth> yeah
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> Amaranth: for menu groups I set $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to /usr/share/edubuntu/menus/
<Amaranth> cbx33: I was pretty far behind on bills and junk, $2500 goes fast
<LaserJock> Amaranth: which is just an applications.menu that has a <MergeDIR>
<cbx33> tell me about it
<cbx33> my wage just covers living
<cbx33> for my wife and I
<Amaranth> oh, and i went clothes shopping
<LaserJock> Amaranth: that is my dentist bill :(
<cbx33> heheheh
<Amaranth> and i _enjoyed_ it, something is wrong
<cbx33> Amaranth that is wrong
* ogra cries 
<cbx33> what's up ogra?
<ogra> sbalneav, any idea how to get a proper ps output from the ssh socket ? 
<ogra> seems if i run the script i dont see all processes
<Amaranth> i need to stop growing, it sucks having all your pants be too short for you after a year
<sbalneav> reaaaaaly?
<sbalneav> Wow, I haven't seen that.
<sbalneav> Let me try.
<ogra> i just wanted to add a check if an nbd-server is running for the specific port/ip 
<cbx33> Amaranth - I can imagine that :p
<ogra> running it from commandline on the client is fine
<sbalneav> gimme 2 shakes
<ogra> but as soon as i do "ps ax|grep nbd-server" from a script i dont get the other users processes
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you remind me of a good charlotte song
<sbalneav> oohhh, don't use ax
<sbalneav> use -ef
<ogra> doesnt work either
<sbalneav> wierd
<sbalneav> What about netstat -anp?
<ogra> i'm through all px options ...
<Amaranth> does feature freeze apply to universe too?
<sbalneav> gimme a sec, gotta set it up...
<ogra> sbalneav, lsof doesnt even work for foreign files
<sbalneav> wow
<ogra> netstat complains in the header already
<ogra> remember i run as user
<sbalneav> ?!?!?!  Works for me.
<sbalneav> Now, I'm not doing this from a terminal
<sbalneav> Just between 2 machines.
<ogra> right
<TeePOG> hi agin
<ogra> that works fine here as well
<TeePOG> hi again*
<TeePOG> ogra, you'll be pleased to know that I have a much happier system than yesterday
<TeePOG> just one last thing: how do you make the LTSP desktop use a specific resolution? 800x600 to be exact
<sbalneav> ogra: So, I wonder what's different between a TERMINAL doing the ssh, and a regular user doing it.
<sbalneav> Something in /etc/ssh/ssh_config on the terminal, maybe?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> seems netstat works, even it complains loud
<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-swapon got it ...
<ogra> this way it works and doesnt spawn new servers over and over :)
<cbx33> ogra :D
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> did you get my pm
<cbx33> about benzene>
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> yeah, I think you are talking about naphthalene
<cbx33> cool
<LaserJock> or maybe anthracene
<cbx33> what about aspartame ?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I'm j/k
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> top search strings for my site
<cbx33> 1 4 6.45% how to use gisomount 
<LaserJock> cbx33: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/edubuntu/caffeine.gif
<LaserJock> cbx33: or do you want bigger?
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> are those bonds just floating?
<cbx33> off the N atoms?
<LaserJock> well, it's actually a CH3 at the end of them
<cbx33> could.....could you possibly add that?
<LaserJock> we don't usually include the C and H atoms explicitly
<cbx33> I know....but for effects sake...it'd look cool make the molecule a little more complex
<cbx33> and if you could make the image a little larger that'd be great
<LaserJock> cbx33: reload
<cbx33> oooh 
<cbx33> much better
<cbx33> do you ever expand the CH3 into a diagram at the end?
<LaserJock> I could do a wonderful opengl rendering of it in 3D too, but ...
<cbx33> hehehe
<LaserJock> cbx33: you can do like http://www.sdsc.edu/discovery/chem-act/caffeine.html
<LaserJock> but that gets kinda messy
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> could we do that.....pretty please
<cbx33> would fill the gap I have a little better
<cbx33> whats the diff between CH3 and H3C
<LaserJock> well, you do that so it's clear that the bond is to the C
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> cbx33: here's one from my own research http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/edubuntu/bromoBIPS.gif
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> can I have that one?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> cbx33: reload the caffeine one
<LaserJock> cbx33: that's how we would draw it fully
<LaserJock> cbx33: and those are just .gifs to show you, I can do better quality I think too if you want
<sbalneav> ogra: Sexy!
<ogra> 30 lines of beauty :)
<ogra> this socket was the best we ever added ... i owe you a barrel of beer fo pushing for it :)
<cbx33> oooh LaserJock I like that
<cbx33> I'll bookmark that
<cbx33> we have to pop out but we'll be back
<cbx33> 5.5 hours till FF ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: let me know what you need
<cbx33> am I right?
<LaserJock> hmm, Kamion said 4 hrs, 30 min ago in -devel
<TeePOG> erm... FF?
<cbx33> LaserJockthose are fine
<LaserJock> TeePOG: Feature Freeze
<LaserJock> TeePOG: the point at which we stop taking in new features and start focusing on bug fixing and stability
<TeePOG> ohhhh ok, I thought a new version of Firefox had passed me by... </n00b idiocy>
<LaserJock> heh, np
<TeePOG> anyway, just thought I'd mention: I have Edubuntu LTSP booting successfully in a VMWare Player window on my Windows desktop. The system is a contented tent dweller :-D
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> nice TeePOG
<cbx33> now switch it
<cbx33> put windows in the VM :D
<TeePOG> lol, did that already... Windows, PC-BSD, and [when the torrent is done]  OS X 10.4.6
<sbalneav> What, has apple torrented OS X?
<TeePOG> erm... oops, was that out loud?
<TeePOG> ;-] 
<TeePOG> more precisely, OSx86
<cbx33> :0
<TeePOG> we're getting a whole network of Intel iMacs! I'll need to admin them
<TeePOG> and not getting ANOTHER server just for that
<TeePOG> i am buying a legal copy as well
<TeePOG> so there :-P
<LaserJock> just put Ubuntu on the iMacs ;-)
<TeePOG> i wish, the designers want OS X for all the nice proggies :-(
<TeePOG> anyway, is there a kernel out for the Core Duo yet?
<cbx33> bbl guys
<TeePOG> ciao cbx33
<LaserJock> TeePOG: kernel?
<TeePOG> or does it use the i386 / 686-smp kernel?
<TeePOG> i have not really had a Core Duo to play wiff
<TeePOG> i profess my ignorance
<TeePOG> hmm
<TeePOG> i profess my leaving as well, it's late
<TeePOG> ciao guys
<TeePOG> thanks for all the help
<_acesuares> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 6m 39s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<Petaris> later all
<cbx33> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-September/005146.html :D
<cbx33> brb
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah, somebody already commented on it I think
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> good or bad ?
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> ogra_ any news?
<LaserJock> cbx33: "ivoks: i could listen new edgy sounds whole day"
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> wow cool
<LaserJock> not sure if he meant the new login sounds, but I would assume so
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> are there other new sounds?
<cbx33> :p
<Amaranth> cbx33: they are awesome
<Amaranth> but perhaps a bit long
<LaserJock> Amaranth: hehe, you just need a slower machine
<Amaranth> yeah... :P
<Amaranth> XGL/compiz memory leak, brb
<cbx33> they may be a little long for edgy
<cbx33> not tried
<cbx33> perfect for dapper on an AMD64 machine
<Amaranth> cbx33: I get back to gdm in about 1 second, how long is the logout sound? :P
<cbx33> aww shucks
<cbx33> sorry Amaranth
<cbx33> about 6-7 secs i think :p
<cbx33> I'm hoping to get a shiny new sound card to rerecord them
<cbx33> LaserJock you still around bud?
<LaserJock> yeah
<hareem> ok how can i start gproftpd from the shell. what is the command
<LaserJock> gksudo gproftpd
<hareem> doesnt work laser
<LaserJock> hareem: are you getting an error message?
<hareem> no
<hareem> i installed the prepacked file for gproftpd
<LaserJock> does gproftpd start up?
<hareem> no
<hareem> so what should i do
<LaserJock> hmm, it's odd that gproftpd doesn't start up
<LaserJock> but I would have just installed vsftpd
<hareem> i know. But i need a gui based ftp server
<LaserJock> well, but the GUI isn't working
<LaserJock> vsftpd is pretty to set up from what I've read
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP1.jpg
<LaserJock> cbx33: I like it, it kinda seems bottom heavy
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> to leave room for icons
<cbx33> but i know what you mean
<LaserJock> people put icons on the top?
<cbx33> yup
<LaserJock> hmm, I do the side or bottom mostly
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> people are weird creatures for sure :-)
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, the background would kill my eyes but I think it looks great
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra_ you around old buddy old pal?
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP2.jpg
<LaserJock> oh, that's nice
<LaserJock> but my molecule left :(
<LaserJock> oh well
* cbx33 hacks up another version :p
<Burgwork> cbx33, too much english text, but otherwise I like it
<LaserJock> Burgwork: interesting point
<cbx33> LaserJock refresh it
<cbx33> heh...
<cbx33> Burgworkwe can change that
<cbx33> it's a concept
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know, the first one does look cleaner
<cbx33> as opposed to a fully fledged idea
<LaserJock> is that SCP code?
<cbx33> yeh...
<cbx33> the plugin handler
<LaserJock> did you ask the permission of the author? ;-)
<cbx33> ummm....oh shute no I forgot..
<cbx33> lemme just ask
<LaserJock> heh
<cbx33> he said no
<cbx33> damn !
<LaserJock> lol
<_acesuares_> !SEEN OGRA
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 1h 39m 45s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<cbx33> brb
<LaserJock> cbx33: heh, you want to know the full name of that molecule?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> sure !
<LaserJock> cbx33: 6,8-dibromo-1,3-dihydro-1,3,3-trimethyspiro[2H -1-benzopyran-2,2-(2H )-indole] 
<cbx33> I do like telling people what PTFE stands for
<cbx33> LaserJock, ok...you got a common name for that
<cbx33> like polytetrafluraethelyene ?
<cbx33> is that spelt right :p
<LaserJock> I call it 6,8-dibromoBIPS
<LaserJock> s/flura/fluro/ I believe
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> close
<cbx33> hey jono
<cbx33> I sure hope edgy wine runs photoshop
<jono> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> else I'll be miffed :p
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> cbx33: no gimp for you?
<cbx33> gimp is ok
<cbx33> but without adjustment layers it's of little use to me
<LaserJock> I can't use either really
<cbx33> LaserJock, you have PS?
<LaserJock> PS?
<cbx33> PhotoShop !
<LaserJock> oh, I used too, I have a great uncle that works for a publishing company just down the street from Adobe
<LaserJock> he used to send me beta cds that Adobe would send to them
<cbx33> jono, Johnny and Jennifer Yellow-hat
<cbx33> cool
<jono> cbx33, haha
<jono> :P
<Burgwork> jono!
<jono> hey Burgwork :)
#edubuntu 2006-09-08
<cbx33> ping ogra_ 
<LaserJock> heh
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> th1a__: ping
<cbx33> hey mhz 
<mhz> cbx33: hey there
<mhz> cbx33: any good knowledge on sysadmin?
<cbx33> sysadmin in general?
<mhz> yup
<cbx33> what' the question?
<mhz> I had to rescue  this tiny laptop's HD using it in a external USB case.
<cbx33> u huh
<mhz> So, the computer from which it was installed had 3 NICs, and when I placed the HD back to the laptop, 
<mhz> the laptop hardware only has 1 eth0 and 1 ath0
<mhz> BUTY
<mhz> BUT
<cbx33> eeek
<mhz> systems insists it is eth2 and ath1
<cbx33> I have no idea
<cbx33> hhhmmm
<mhz> my guess is there must be some file I could manually edit
<cbx33> ehere is a file
<cbx33> but I can;t recall what it is ow
<cbx33> ask in #ubuntu
<cbx33> I'm off to bed
<cbx33> shattered
<mhz> cbx33: okis thx
<LaserJock> ogra_: do I need to do something with the spec?
<ogra_> probably make it match the reality ? 
<LaserJock> edubuntu-dynamic-menus is listed as "slow progress" and "discussion"
<LaserJock> sure
<ogra_> if it matches already, change the status to deployment or so
<ogra_> and mark it good progress ;)
<LaserJock> ok, I'll work on the wiki page then do that
<LaserJock> ogra_: do you think you'll want a MIR for edgy+1?
<ogra_> well, make a MIR it wont do any harm ...
<LaserJock> hopefully it won't take up much space ;-)
<LaserJock> if we keep implementing our specs we will run out of room quicker
<ogra_> well, my specs didnt take a megabyte on the CD yet
<LaserJock> nice
<LaserJock> how about SCP
<ogra_> not in main yet
<LaserJock> did Pete's code add very much?
<ogra_> but pitti wants to look over it tomorrow
<LaserJock> sure, but if it gets there ;-)
<ogra_> no, he cleaned it up ;)
<LaserJock> I'm going to be optomistic
<LaserJock> Pete did a lot of cool stuff
<ogra_> its only some kilobyte
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i'll surely cheer very loud for his motuship 
<LaserJock> sabayon isn't in Main is it?
<ogra_> it is
<ogra_> its even on the CD now
<ogra_> (edubuntu)
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra_> not installed though 
<LaserJock> in talking with RichEd I think it would be cool to create sabayon profiles as well
<LaserJock> although they wouldn't really be very dynamic
<LaserJock> but things like having a profile per grade
<LaserJock> seem pretty cool
<ogra_> there recently came a package from debian with default profiles
<LaserJock> cool
<ogra_> but i'm not sure it has sabayon
* mhz will have to install many apps edu oriented and have them categorized by 'subjects' :(
<LaserJock> I was thinking of adding .directories to edubuntu-menus so that we can rename submenus
<mhz> yeah!
<LaserJock> the only thing is getting them translated
<mhz> ?
<ogra_> right
<LaserJock> I've stayed away from editing .directory and .desktop files because they are translated
<ogra_> and the .desktop files
<ogra_> not onyl that
<ogra_> .desktop files have the categories in them ...
<LaserJock> mhm
<ogra_> you will need to update them if you invent categories
<LaserJock> well, the fd.o Categories are really good
<LaserJock> gnome just doesn't use them
<LaserJock> to keep things simple
<LaserJock> so if we provided a Science .directory we could have a Science submenu
<LaserJock> which we can't do right now
<ogra_> right, but you need to update all .desktop files of apps you want in there
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> well, they should have science in Categories already
<LaserJock> it's just a matter of getting the submenu
<LaserJock> kalzium, for instance has :Categories=Qt;KDE;Education;Science;
<LaserJock> so if I created a science.directory then it could go in a science submenu without me touching the .desktop
<LaserJock> anyway, that's pretty much edgy+1 material
<ogra_> how do you make sure it doesnt show in education as well ?
<LaserJock> I could exclude Science from the Education menuu
<LaserJock> since it's going to Science
<LaserJock> so I would get Eduction and then exclude the categories that I already have submenus for
<LaserJock> either that or I would only put people in the education group when I wanted general stuff
<LaserJock> anyway, there are some possibilities there
<ogra_> ah, nice
<stormchas3r> wow there is alot of people in #ubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra_: the other edgy+1 issue is editing
<stormchas3r> is edubuntu meant for grades 9-12?
<LaserJock> ogra_: if we don't allow for .desktop editing then I think a simple GUI would be fairly easily done
<LaserJock> stormchas3r: well, pretty much any educational setting I'd say
<mhz> stormchas3r: yup, indeed
<LaserJock> there is stuff for preschool kids
<ogra_> LaserJock, right ... an alacarte extension or something would suffice i think
<LaserJock> ogra_: perhaps, I'll have to talk with Amaranth about that
<mhz> stormchas3r: and if all apps are not enough, there is a bunch of edu apps we could provide from repositories ;)
<stormchas3r> what about joining to a windows domain?
<mhz> stormchas3r: no problem
<stormchas3r> really
<mhz> the issues are usually from M$ to Other systems :)
* stormchas3r used to be a avid suse user until he tried Ubuntu and never looked back
<stormchas3r> The book "The official ubuntu book" is amazing.  Its teaches you everything about ubuntu.  I highly recommend it
<mhz> me too :)
<mhz> and hopefully we'll have The Edubuntu Handbook sometime soon
<stormchas3r> nice
<mhz> stormchas3r: are you planning to use Edubuntu at any school? or home kids?
<stormchas3r> I am a network admin in 2 technical high schools and would like to implement ubuntu or edubuntu.  
<stormchas3r> not sure who to talk to about this
<stormchas3r> and i dont want to scare them away
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> i'd talk to one teacher, show him/her some edubuntu stuff related to his/her subjects
<stormchas3r> what about getting free cd's to hand out, other that the free 10 ones
<stormchas3r> I noticed edubuntu looks geared toward the younger crowd,  what can you show me for high school students/
<LaserJock> well, high school is much harder, IMO, because you start getting into subject areas
<LaserJock> and it becomes a little more fuzzy as to what is an "educational" app
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu has access to the full Ubuntu repositories
<LaserJock> so there's lots of software there
<stormchas3r> do they come enabled by default, or do you have to add the repos
<ogra_> stormchas3r, use gnome-app-install ...
<ogra_> (add/remove from the main menu)
<stormchas3r> ha
<ogra_> it will ust enable them if it needs them... (after asking you indeed)
<stormchas3r> gotcha
<stormchas3r> ty
<stormchas3r> can i add the edubuntu repos on ubuntu, instead of installing edubuntu?
<mhz> stormchas3r: well, edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-servers are just packages
<stormchas3r> roger that
<mhz> you install them on top of any ubuntu flavor
<stormchas3r> ty again
<ogra_> while installing edubuntu-server doesn tmake much sense on ubuntu ... you are better off with ltsp-server-standalone if you really want the ltsp stuff
<mhz> stormchas3r: no thanks.... U$4321 :D
<mhz> ogra_: well, true
<ogra_> (edubuntu-server is basically to keep the server bits on the CD together)
<ogra_> but it currently depends only on schooltool and ltsp
<stormchas3r> mhz, no thanks?
<mhz> stormchas3r: well, it was meant to be a joke...to your 'ty again' 
<stormchas3r> lol
<stormchas3r> :)
<mhz> :)
<mhz> well, time for me to shut down...this tiny laptop is not enough for Edubuntu running XFCE desktop
<mhz> between the net lag of this cibercafe and the RAM lack...it is kind of painful
* mhz will get back to fluxbox
<jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> how you doing lately?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<jsgotangco> good to hear
<Burgundavia> hmm, what happened to my work machine?
<Burgundavia> given I am not there.
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hmm jjesse reviewed his own book in amazon? hehe
<LaserJock> haha
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<Burgundavia> that is what authors are supposed to do
<jsgotangco> really?
<Amaranth> ?
<jsgotangco> "The best part of this book is the chapter on Kubuntu"
<LaserJock> how do you roll your eyes in IRC?
<Burgundavia> right
<Amaranth> are you talking about that linux tech show
<Burgundavia> apparently
<jsgotangco> Amaranth: amazon review of the ubuntu book
<Burgundavia> by one of the authors
<jsgotangco> 0_0
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> jono? :)
<Burgundavia> no, jjesse
<Amaranth> About that book: yay screenshots of alacarte, boo full-size screenshots in the example content version :)
<jsgotangco> we dont have the book available locally so I dont have it
* gnomefreak likes the book :)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<jsgotangco> hi!
<sbalneav> Hey jsgotangco
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> How's it going?
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I can't for the life of me get NX going
<LaserJock> but I did upload edubuntu-menus today to Universe
<sbalneav> Oooh
<sbalneav> Cool
<sbalneav> Congrats on the completed spec!
<LaserJock> yeah, until somebody breaks it
* HedgeMage peeks in
<RichEd> hi HedgeMage :)
<HedgeMage> What's up ?
<RichEd> The feature freeze was last night ... probably lost of tired people this morning.
<RichEd> *lots
<HedgeMage> I bet.
<HedgeMage> I feel bad for not being around, but between the unexpected trip to my folks' place and hubby's surgery and such, I've hardly been online in weeks.
<RichEd> I'm busy with User / Stakeholder Categorisation to identify and profile our target audiences : First step in bringing more "end user" focus to our web and info presence.
<RichEd> Hope hubby is okay ?
<HedgeMage> He will be
<RichEd> good :)
<HedgeMage> Thanks.
<HedgeMage> If you have a minute, what do you think of I'm no artist, but an article I read recently gave me the idea to try to toss something together. I thought we might change the color for each release.
<HedgeMage> oops
<HedgeMage> screwed up paste... sorry
<HedgeMage> I meant, if you have a minute, what do you think of http://www.binaryredneck.net/node/72 ?  It's my backup plan in case Handbook is so behind we can't get the art team to help us with a cover.
<RichEd> hi ... looks good
<RichEd> pete savages wife has been doing some artwork for us
<RichEd> For future thinking, I'll mail you the user / stakeholder first pass doc so you can see the wide range of people we need to address.
<RichEd> This will all get fleshed out onto a wiki and then a portal area. Yo'ull see that the audience is a lot wider than your title at present :)
<HedgeMage> Cool :)
<HedgeMage> I tried to at least keep it from looking like it was just for young kids (which is the impression I think too many people get)
<RichEd> HedgeMage: ping window right ->
<HedgeMage> just saw it :)
<RichEd> you'll see from the doc that we have iCafe's using Edubntu because of the LTSP
<cbx33> mornin dudes and dudeettes
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<RichEd> highvoltage is rolling out 1000 this upcoming year
<highvoltage> well, not me, the company I work for :)
<RichEd> so we will not do a one version fits all handbook, nor a one version per sub-category, but maybe a few broad target versions ... it should unfold as we explore
<RichEd> I'm adding the handbook to the resource list now for mapping
<RichEd> good morning cbx33 : how are you this fine friday ?
<HedgeMage> cool
<HedgeMage> Just keep in mind we're having enough trouble getting ONE handbook out, :/
<cbx33> RichEd: I'm doing great
* HedgeMage pounces cbx33 
<cbx33> people seem to love the new UbuntuSounds, which has made me extra cool this morning
<RichEd> How did the freeze go last night ? I did not get a chance to pop my head in.
* HedgeMage grins at cbx33 
<cbx33> Hiya HedgeMage 
<cbx33> RichEd: freeze was good, most things got in
<HedgeMage> wow, talk about timing... Hi, pygi 
<pygi> Morning all
<RichEd> pygi: hi were the presentations useful ?
<cbx33> I'm just waiting to talk to ogra about SCP and Pessulus
<cbx33> I fear that the pessulus patch I did, did not get in, which means I'll have to drop some features from SCP
<pygi> RichEd, didn't had time to look yet :-/
<cbx33> unless an exception can be raised
<pygi> cbx33, well it can, just depends on particular case
<cbx33> which I have no idea about....so I'm waiting to speak to ogra ;) - But I think he's going to be largely resting today
<RichEd> okay ... i'll send you a mail today ... need to mail acesuares as well ... similar topic
<pygi> RichEd, ok :) Seems on that page there is just one edubuntu general presentation
<RichEd> yep ... we're on a drive to improve marketing / brochures / web portal audience specific pages ... will add PRESENTATIONS to my user & stakeholder category doc.
<RichEd> So, when you & I produce a new version from the existing one, we'll bring it into the arsenal :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: any clue when we can attempt to get handbook folks together
<pygi> RichEd, hehe, ok :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, Handbook folks = me, you, mhz :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, and I definitly hope soon, because of the following reasons:
<pygi> 1)I'm very busy anyway
<pygi> 2)I'll be even busier later
<pygi> RichEd, I hope I can get some exclusive edu informations for presentation :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: and RobinSheapard and Joyce 
<HedgeMage> pygi: mhz has limited 'net access right now, IIRC
<pygi> HedgeMage, ahm, ok, but I haven't heard from none of them
<RichEd> pygi ... we'll define your audience, and refine a good pitch.
<pygi> HedgeMage, I have limited sleep access :)
<cbx33> how are you HedgeMage 
<pygi> RichEd, it would be good if we could define it, but oh well :)
<HedgeMage> robin has made svn commits, joyce gave me a phone call not long ago, I can get ahold of her any time as I'm good friends with her fella 
* RichEd needs to get ready & presentable for a face-2-face meeting ... will pop my head back in before I leave
<HedgeMage> okay see you soon :)
<pygi> laters RichEd 
<pygi> HedgeMage, so you decide, I'm  up for any day you want mostly
<HedgeMage> Monday then?
<HedgeMage> pygi: any particular time?
<pygi> HedgeMage, 20 UTC
* HedgeMage does math
<HedgeMage> Sounds good :)
<pygi> Is that good for mhz?
<HedgeMage> let me check the last email he sent to the list
<HedgeMage> Yep, that's within the range he gave.
<pygi> oki
<pygi> then contact other two people
<HedgeMage> I'll drop an email to the fridge folks now, then joyce and robin and the pertinant email lists.
<pygi> oki :)
<HedgeMage> Pertinent emails are sent... I'm off to bed now
* HedgeMage waves
* RichEd is out to a meeting at 12 Plein Street
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think there's only like, 2 people in #edubuntu who would know what that means :)
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> and one of those isn'tme
<cbx33> just like the joke I made yesterday
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/benzene.jpg
* RichEd is out to a meeting at Canonical Offices in Cape Town, South Africa. Anyone in the vicinity is welcome to join for a cup of coffee.
<cbx33> oooooh Nice!
<pygi> highvoltage, !!!
<RichEd> highvoltage: okay so you bust me cutting and pasting from the #canonical message :P
* RichEd was trying to save time and keystrokes but to no avail ;)
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> pygi: I haven't followed your instructions yet
<pygi> highvoltage, I know :)
<highvoltage> pygi: I'll have to do it either very late tonight, or very early tomorrow morning
<highvoltage> but it's friday night tonight so it shouldn't be a problem :)
<cbx33> mornin jono 
<pygi> highvoltage, heh, ok, I'll give you further instructions once you are done with this
<jono> hey
<highvoltage> jey jono
<highvoltage> people call me jono too IRL so it's strange to see your nick :)
<jono> highvoltage, jonos unite! :)
<cbx33> Just be thankful they don;t call you Joner
<highvoltage> jono: yeah!
<jono> heh
<highvoltage> jono: http://wiki.clug.org.za/wiki/JOCUAMAOE
<highvoltage> jono: ^^^ that's from my local LUG :)
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)))
<pygi> seems like libburn will soon work on freebsd as well ^_^
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> nice pygi 
* pygi looks at diff
<pygi> 1246 lines
<tsurc> Think I have fixed the NIS with LDA problem
<cbx33> tsurc: :D
<tsurc> yep, turns out that NIS doesn't use any goup under ID 1000 and the clients will use the setting of a local group by default.
<tsurc> so get rid of the local fuse group, change ID of the fuse group on the NIS server to something like 1133 and change permissions on the /dev/fuse, /usr/bin/fusermount and enything that should be owned by fuse group to match and presto.
<pygi> tsurc, you are welcome to write wiki page, you know;)
<tsurc> I know.. take a look at LinkAggrigation page ;) not my best work but its there for future reference
<tsurc> LRL06 inspired me to finaly get of my skinny backside and write something(thank you mr bacon.. sterling work)
<ogra> cbx33, pitti promised to look at it today
<cbx33> ogra: :D
<cbx33> ogra: I talked to vuntz and seb128
<cbx33> they want me to make a change 
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> but they are happy with the concept
<cbx33> they want me to break my additions out in to a seperate class
<ogra> seb just asked me if we really need that change ... is it a big difference ? 
<cbx33> to pessulus?
<ogra> ah
<cbx33> it won't work without it
<cbx33> pessulus integration won't work without that patch
<cbx33> it allows modification of anyones gconf key, assuming you have permission of course
<cbx33> pessulus by default edits your own keys only
<ogra> yes, i know
<cbx33> sorry ogra I've been flowing that sentence out a lot lately
<cbx33> I'm not 100% sure how they want it broken out
<cbx33> just trying to get that out of vuntz
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> because the only real way I can see would mean duping a whole section of code
<cbx33> which seems unnecessary
<cbx33> my changes are only small
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pessulus/+bug/59490
<cbx33> ogra: did you see the new artwork I poseted last night
<cbx33> some concepts
<ogra> nope, i didnt
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP1.jpg
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP2.jpg
<cbx33> comments appreciated
<cbx33> more for hugher edu theme
<cbx33> ogra: can you confrim from seb128, if they are integrating now on the proviso I make the change, or waiting till I make the change
<ogra> the artwork looks sweet :)
<cbx33> Burgwork: said there look like too much english text
<highvoltage> cbx33: are those that lisa made?
<cbx33> I made those
<highvoltage> cool :)
<cbx33> under lisas direction
<pygi> highvoltage, you again :)
<highvoltage> pygi: heh
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<pygi> jsgotangco, hey ho
<jsgotangco> how it going all
<jsgotangco> its too yellowish hmmm
<jsgotangco> but not bad
<cbx33> hehe jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hi!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: how's the new job? (or did I mis-quick-read recent #edubuntu activity?)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: pretty good, 4-day workweek
<jsgotangco> actually i get a 3 day weekend
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> wow
<jsgotangco> so im pretty much enjoying today
* highvoltage bows
<cbx33> alright for some eh?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: well regular working hours at office is 9am to 7pm
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> ok I can see why
<jsgotangco> but since the traffic here is so bad going out of office at 7pm isnt bad
<jsgotangco> for city people here, leaving at work at 7pm is pretty normal
<jsgotangco> but then i get to work at home too
<jsgotangco> *sniff* JaneW said my car is cheap boohoooo
<highvoltage> my car is cheap too, but I love it.
<ogra> cbx33, see -devel :))
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> bah, the merge yesterday broke everyhing in ltsp :(
<cbx33> whhaaa??
<cbx33> is that why its kept back on my machine?
<ogra> no
<ogra> it only breaks the ltsp-build-client script
<pygi> cbx33, poke?
<pygi> com'on, awake yourself  cbx33 :)
<cbx33> I'm here
<cbx33> sorry pygi 
<cbx33> sorry pygi 
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> on a friday at lunch, me and some of the pupils go and play music down in the music room
<cbx33> we just recorded a song which was amix between the phrase "I want an Ice Cream, give me one now", Smells Like Teen Spirit and The Self Preservation Society
<pygi> cbx33, oki, you have time now :)
<pygi> read pm :)
<cbx33> ok
<Petaris> Anyone had luck installing linneighborhood on amd64 edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> eh? what this email about?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: are you on edgy?
<bddebian> Hello
<pygi> ho hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<pygi> how are you?
<bddebian> Tired man thanks.  You?
<pygi> tired also, otherwise fantastic :)
<pygi> I never thought libburn can advance at such high rate
<bddebian> That's awesome :-)
<pygi> indeed :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah
<sbalneav> Morning all.
<pygi> morning sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Morning pygi 
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<pygi> cbx33, bddebian sorry , got dced
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> np
<bddebian> NP
<Jon335|Linux> I noticed that KTouch is v1.5 on Edubuntu, and the latest version is 1.6, what is the easiest way to upgrade?
<tsurc> what would the command be to uninstall gnome-power-manager without breaking any dependancy in dapper.
<sbalneav> tsurc: Trying to eliminate the hibernate feature?
<sbalneav> on thin clients?
<ogra> tsurc, its not possible ...
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> just remove and re-install 
<ogra> i wrote a fix for gnome-power-manager yesterday
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> it will enter dapper next week (i hope)
<sbalneav> tsurc: I can step you though what you need to do in gconf-editor to fixit.
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/70-suppress-pm-actions-on-ltsp.patch
<ogra> its already in the edgy pacage ...
<sbalneav> ogra: nice.
* ogra is really impressed by bzr ...
<ogra> i merged 125 revisions from vagrant yesterday night ... and only have three small breakages
<cbx33> ogra: you da man
<cbx33> anywork on SCP
<cbx33> pessulus is in ;)
<ogra> yup, i saw it 
<sbalneav> ogra: I figured out my problem with 010-mount-proc
<ogra> pitti said we should probably poke more 
<ogra> but he wanted to look today
<cbx33> poke him
<cbx33> I don;t want fire breathed on me
<ogra> sbalneav, that was a quick fix of mine for usplash ...
<sbalneav> My ltsp-build-client failed, so I've been re-running ltsp-build-client, but there's nothing that UNMOUNTS /proc in the build-client
<ogra> sbalneav, was already gone from my tree when your mail arrived, since uspash cares for fd itself now
<tsurc> tried the app->gnome-power-manager->can_hibernate uncheck trick
<tsurc> didn't work
<tsurc> :(
<ogra> sbalneav, it is :)
<sbalneav> tsurc: Did you mark it as "manditory"?
<tsurc> ?
<sbalneav> What you want to do (or how I do it) is:
<tsurc> take that as a no
<ogra> sbalneav, have a look at the on_exit function in ltsp-build-client
<sbalneav> gksu gconf-editor
<sbalneav> gnome-power-manager
<sbalneav> uncheck can_hibernate
<sbalneav> Then right click on it, and...
<sbalneav> mark it "manditory"
<sbalneav> that way, it's for all users, and not overridable.
<ogra> and do the same for can_suspend
<tsurc> ah ha thats the same as mandatory right?
<ogra> but as i said, the fix should be in next week anyway
<tsurc> have done the susspend too
<tsurc> ;)
<tsurc> cool
<sbalneav> err, yeah, mandatory :)
<tsurc> \o/ for ogra...and Mr Balneav ;)
* sbalneav looks
<tsurc> and jim
<sbalneav> *MR* Balneaves? what, is my dad here? :)
<sbalneav> I'm just plain old Scott :)
<sbalneav> No Mr required :)
<ogra> mr.scott ? 
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> I canna hol 'er cap'n!
<sbalneav> Th' dilithium crystals  canna take it.
<ogra> if oyu look in mount-proc, you will see it uses chroot_mount
<pygi> RichEd, !!!
<tsurc> respect where respect is due, "all" you guys do some great work.
<ogra> chroot_mount adds all mounted dirs in the chroot to a list (CHROOT_MOUNTED)
<ogra> on_exit unmounts all dirs of that list on exit
<cbx33> ogra: nice ;)
<RichEd> hi pygi
<pygi> hey RichEd 
<jsgotangco> wow its only today i noticed the new sounds
* jsgotangco bows at the greatness of pete savage
<tsurc> that did the job, thanks.. erm.... scott (and of course ogra :))
<ogra> great :)
<tsurc> think i'm off home it's 4pm I've been working since 8am Havn't had any lunch, bacause at 5 to 12 the one pivital switch that keeps the network going whent pop.
<Jon335> So how should I go about upgrading KTouch to 1.6 in Ehubuntu?
<pygi> bddebian, poke?
<bddebian> Yo
<pygi> bddebian, any news? :)
<bddebian> pygi: No not yet, I'm at work :-(
<pygi> ahm, oki bddebian :)
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> edubuntu-server, how would i use this?
<cbx33> hi ogra any news from pitti?
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> Were can I find doc for edubuntu-server
<cbx33> kaos|STORMCHAS3R, what do you need?
<cbx33> Hi LaserJock 
<sbalneav> kaos|STORMCHAS3R: Have you searched on the wiki?
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> yes i have searched the wiki, what is the server for?
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you see pessulus go by in edgy-changes :-)
<cbx33> yup ;)
<cbx33> I had to fight a little for that one;)
<cbx33> I still have changes to do to make vuntz and seb128 happy
<LaserJock> kaos|STORMCHAS3R: it is a meta-package for installing an LTSP server from the install CD
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> gotcha, ill search the wiki more, srry
<LaserJock> kaos|STORMCHAS3R: well, what are you trying to do?
<LaserJock> edubuntu-server isn't the best way to install an LTSP server
<LaserJock> from Ubuntu
* kaos|STORMCHAS3R is just trying to learn what edubuntu is all about
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<LaserJock> the website (www.edubuntu.org) has a fair amount of info
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> looking now
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> How would I join a edubuntu workstation to a windows domain?
<LaserJock> kaos|STORMCHAS3R: not sure, I'm a bad person to ask unfortunately
<LaserJock> as I've never done an LTSP install
<LaserJock> but I believe it can be done
<cbx33> kaos|STORMCHAS3R, what do you want to achieve
<kaos|STORMCHAS3R> cbx33, i want to be able to join to the domain
<Amaranth> cbx33: after a little more usage the login sound is probably the perfect length
<Amaranth> for me on cold boot the sound goes away right before my desktop is completely ready to use
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you have any problems adding "bad" items the the content filter in the GUI?
<Amaranth> no?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: hmm, ok
<Amaranth> what happens for you?
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<LaserJock> well, robert day said that when he tried my backported (yeah, yeah) 0.3 package he got an error or something when adding to the "bad" list in the content filter
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is there a way to reset the content filter db?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: sudo rm /etc/willowng/training.db
<Jon335> So how should I go about upgrading KTouch to 1.6 in Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> ok
<cbx33> thanks Amaranth 
<LaserJock> wahooo, my browser crashed when I tried to go to microsoft.com
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> but I put it in for "bad content" but it let me go there anyway :/
<cylix> I'm running LTSP and when I use the who or w command it does not show all users that are logged in.  Can anyone tell me why? Is it a bug?
<Petaris> cylix: I have noticed that as well
<Burgwork> could it be that they are logged into the chroot?
<cylix> Petaris, Yeah I can still find out who is logged in with ps but that not very good.
<cylix> Burgwork, no chroot
<cylix> about 3 users show of the 15 logged in.
<cylix> guess I need to go into the source and see how who gets its info.
<Petaris> or write a script to pull it from ps
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> RichEd: are you there?
<pygi> mhz, can you attend?
<mhz> pygi: ?
<mhz> hi there
<pygi> mhz, handbook, monday
<mhz> pygi: time?
<pygi> mhz, 20 UTC
<mhz> yeah, if web lag is not present, sure
<mhz> any email about it?
<LaserJock> haha, I was just reading a computing magazine while heating up lunch
<pygi> mhz, yes
<LaserJock> there was a little blurb about a Vista beta tester that had problems with IE7
<mhz> lol
<LaserJock> and reportedly the MS support people told him to us Firefox or Opera
<LaserJock> *use
<bddebian> heh
<mhz> their biz-developing model can't be perfect else, they would not make any money ot of it
<mhz> ot = out
<LaserJock> I would have had a laughing fit if they had said "Use Ubuntu, that's what we do" ;-)
<mhz> hehehehehe, they can only say it off the record
<mhz> re
* pygi thinks -tao is very close
<mhz> pygi: I got no email about EHB meeting proposal
<pygi> mhz, Susan sent it 
<pygi> mhz, it's monday 20:00 UTC, that's all you must know :)
<mhz> hehe, true
<mhz> neurogeek: hey
<mhz> got a min?
<neurogeek> mhz, Hello!!
<neurogeek> finally
<mhz> yup
<mhz> pm?
<mhz> neurogeek: BTW, jsgotanco has experience on mobile devices, as well.
<mhz> neurogeek: but his usually awake while we are sleeping :)
<neurogeek> mhz, good to know that!
<mhz> neurogeek: and in Philipines, sure they have 'experience'
<mhz_off> bye all
<Jon335> How would I go about updating a package or getting it updated?
<LaserJock> Jon335: what package?
<Jon335> KTouch
<pygi> HedgeMage, !!!
<HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
<LaserJock> Jon335: and in which release? sorry, I've been away
<Jon335> Dapper
<LaserJock> ahhh
<LaserJock> Jon335: do you know if edgy has the version you want?
<Jon335> dunno, they are marked by KDE version not the actual KTouch version
<Jon335> I'll look
<Jon335> looks like the latest vorsion is in edgy, yes
<Jon335> *version
<LaserJock> Jon335: would it require new KDE libs?
<LaserJock> if it does it might not be able to be backported
<LaserJock> if it's just KTouch then you could open a backport bug (ask #ubuntu-motu with help with that)
<pygi> HedgeMage, how have you been?
<LaserJock> I gotta reboot, I'll brb
<Burgwork> anybody here used sf.net's svn?
<LaserJock> nope just alioth's
<Burgwork> hmm, cause I am failing to connect
<pygi> Burgwork, yes, it's bad
<pygi> try several times
<Jon335> LaserJock: From #ubuntu-MOTU: "why...kde 3.5.4 packages are available from kubuntu.org...just get it from kubuntu.org"
<LaserJock> arrgg, who said that?
<ogra> LaserJock, guess :)
<Jon335> LaserJock: Riddell
<LaserJock> I'm not sure I understand that
<LaserJock> they all come from the same repo
<LaserJock> and then point is that you want KTouch updated in Dapper, right?
<Burgwork> hmm, where are the bzr packages for FC4?
<Jon335> LaserJock: Exactly
<Jon335> LaserJock: I was thinking the same thing
#edubuntu 2006-09-09
<Burgwork> Committed revision 1.
<Burgwork> [corey@localhost openuserful] $
<Burgwork> woot!
<Burgwork> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/openuserful/
<pygi> what is that Burgwork ?
<Burgwork> a computer reservation and timing server
<Burgwork> written in Tcl
<bddebian> Hello
<stormchas3r> where can i find the documentation to help me pass the Ubuntu Certified Professionals exam?
<vanchuck> :-)
<vanchuck> can anyone tell me what the language support is like for, say, Chinese in edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> vanchuck: quite good
<Burgundavia> which language are you specifici looking for?
<stormchas3r> anyone here know anything about the "Ubuntu Certified Professional" exam?
<Burgundavia> stormchas3r: not really, but it is mostly the level 1 LPI, from what I udnerstand
<stormchas3r> Burgundavia, nice, so i could study the lpi books and i should be ok, thats dude
<Burgundavia> there maybe Ubujntu specific information, so I would contact LPI directly
<stormchas3r> Im really liking the edubuntu theme
<stormchas3r> kk
<stormchas3r> how can i become a member of ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> sustained and visible contribution to Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu,etc.
<ksteffensen> Ogra: My prototype LTSP lab is going well.  I almost have it all worked out for a limited user test, but I cannot get the floppy disks to work on the thin clients.  Any pointers?  I've found general LTSP howtos, but nothing specific to the Ubuntu LTSP implementation.  Thanks.
<ksteffensen> Anyone - My prototype LTSP lab is going well. I almost have it all worked out for a limited user test, but I cannot get the floppy disks to work on the thin clients. Any pointers? I've found general LTSP howtos, but nothing specific to the Ubuntu LTSP implementation. Thanks.
<Burgundavia> local devices was only turned on for the edgy ltsp stuff
<ogra> and still has bugs, especially for floppes 
<ogra> *floppies
<ogra> (i cant test the code due to missing a floppy here :) )
<ksteffensen> huge bummer.  USB flash disks, too, i guess?
<ogra> usbdisks, CDs, cameras and ipds are tested and working fine in edgy
<Burgundavia> ogra: we have all kinds of fun at work with floppies, because we have todo hacks due to our multiseat stuff
<ogra> *ipods
<ogra> i have only a usb floppy and that is not working righ with the kernel ...
<ogra> so its hard to test... but it will be fixed for release, promised :)
<ksteffensen> cool.  is edgy solid enough to upgrade to the development tree, or hazardous to my health?  (or even possible for a mortal user to upgrade to the devel tree?)
<ogra> if you only use ltsp for fun at home i'd say its fine ... if your ltsp server is in production in a school i'd strictly say no
<ksteffensen> thanks.  it's for production, that's why I'm hoping to get the floppies working.  trying to get off of windows 98...  working for a year at college in Tanzania and all of the computers are ancient.  fair for thin clients but awful for any modern OS.
<ksteffensen> oh, thanks for the graphical login fix.  changing usplash to start instead of stop has worked flawlessly for a few days.
<ogra> yeah, but i need to fix the package ... thats such an odd bug ...
<ogra> who would guess to call "start" to stop something 
<ksteffensen> yeah.  you would think start would start it and stop would stop it, but I can see in the usplash script where it's backwards (now that I know to look there...)  A nod to you for even thinking to look.
<ogra> :)
<ogra> to be honest i looked at gdm :)
<ksteffensen> lol
* ogra goes to find some breakfast 
<ksteffensen> Burgundavia: any easy way to turn on local devs under Dapper, or not worth the pain?
<raymondtracm> hi
<raymondtracm> anybody home?
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav_> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 1h 20m 43s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<cbx33> ping Seveas
<capt_kirk> cbx33: I'm curious on your opinion about upgrading to Edgy at this point.  I'm working in Tanzania at a college that has old P-II's running Windows 98.  They've been limping along on them, but I've talked them into moving to an LTSP/thin-client architecture.  Right now, local devices don't work at all in Dapper.  Ogra said that they're kind of working in Edgy, although floppies are still...
<capt_kirk> ...buggy.  We're at the point that even a buggy modern OS will be better than Win98.  My real question is if you're using Edgy now, and if so, how is the stability.  Thanks.
<capt_kirk> (or anyone else's opinion for that matter.  thanks.)
<pygi> cbx33, see? you're famous :)
<pygi> hehe :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> whoops ...
<cbx33> I wan't here
<cbx33> I'll chat to him another time ;)
<Seveas> cbx33, ?
<SynrG> Amaranth: did you speak to raphink recently about the status of willowng wrt the upcoming Ichthux release?
<Amaranth> No?
<Amaranth> I've been talking to Laser_away about a release of something.
<SynrG> Amaranth: it seems that the dapper backporting issues will prevent it from going into our 6.09 release, but we hope to put it in 6.10
<SynrG> because we currently have it break on unfiltered sites :/
<SynrG> and that's very bad
<Amaranth> "break"?
<SynrG> prevent pages from being displayed on sites that aren't even filtered
<SynrG> i forget the exact error returned
<Amaranth> oh
<SynrG> but it's in my irclog somewhere
<SynrG> ah:
<SynrG> ichthux-2006-09-07-19:00 < LaserJock> "rkd: and for some reason lots of sites return 'connection to host is broken'"
<SynrG> these are sites that aren't even being filtered
<hoteric> hi
<hoteric> hei
<bddebian> Hello
<cbx33> bddebian HI!!!!
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> howz it going
<bddebian> OK, thx. You?
<pygi> bddebian, hello :)
<cbx33> hey pygi
<pygi> hey ho cbx33 
<pygi> how are all you?
* bddebian hides from pygi :-)
<pygi> bddebian, you know what I will ask ^_^
<bddebian> Yep :-)
<bddebian> No, I haven't done it yet :-(
<pygi> oki, understood
<pygi> just say you wont do it if you dont have time
<pygi> highvoltage, cbx33 , bddebian , can I ask for a little favor?
<bddebian> pygi: Nah, I should be able to at least attempt it some time today
<cbx33> pygi sure
<pygi> cbx33, I need people to run "./libburner --drive -"
<pygi> cbx33, svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org
<pygi> bootstrap
<pygi> ./configure
<pygi> make
<pygi> cd test
<pygi> ./libburner --drive -
<pygi> And I need output
<cbx33> pygi odyou need it now
<cbx33> or will tomorrow do?
<cbx33> actually
<cbx33> f-it I'll do it now
<cbx33> pygi where do i get bootstrap
<cbx33> ?
<bddebian>  trunk/
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> I'm stupid
<cbx33> aclocal not found
<bddebian> Why?
<cbx33> automake not found :(
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> installed
<cbx33> make: No Targets specified
<pygi> cbx33, what are you doing? you did bootstrap and ./configure before make?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> the configure has broken
<cbx33> cannot run /bin/bash ./config.sub
<cbx33> there is no config.sub
<cbx33> does that mean the bootstrap failed?
<pygi> lol, whats wrong with your system :-/
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> bootstrap
<cbx33> Makefile.am:207 invalid variable
<cbx33> nodlist_pkgconfig_DATA
<pygi> cbx33, ah, oki, dont bother then
<cbx33> does this mean I'm bad :(
<pygi> lol, no, dont worry
#edubuntu 2006-09-10
<LaserJock> hi Amaranth 
<edgarin__> Hi to all
<edgarin__> some people with LTSP?
<Burgundavia> edgarin__: it what way?
<cbx33> ping Seveas
<Seveas> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> Seveas I've been trying to get a working usplash,kwwii told me that it's broken at the mo
<Seveas> what is broken? usplash itself or your theme?
<cbx33> I havnt made a theme
<cbx33> I was trying to view the new edgy theme
<cbx33> but i just get the test screen
<ogra> cbx33, i have a working one here but the graphics are pretty ugly (didnt put any time into it, just dropped the logo on a black background and indexed that)
<ogra> my prob is that the usplash theme creation in all packages we have uses a hardcoded Makefile instead of an automake generated one ...
<ogra> edubuntu artwork uses automake ...
<ogra> dunno who decided such a sillyness ...
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ok...
<cbx33> where is teh position of the progress bar set etc?
<ogra> i need to put some time into rewriting the Makefile.am
<cbx33> and is there a screen shot of the new edgy one?
<ogra> in the .c file 
<cbx33> ah right
<cbx33> I just want to make sure ours fits the theme
<ogra> i just grabbed the kde one and replaced the pngs
<cbx33> if you know what I mean ;)
<cbx33> right ok
<ogra> it needs color adjustments, but works fine that way
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> is that
<cbx33> kde-artwork-usplash ?
<ogra> you can then just run make in the dir and it creates the theme file
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ogra, dude, you gonna be available today?
<ogra> btw, i'm using your wallpaper since friday
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> nice?
<ogra> we should drop the stripes ...
<cbx33> you think?
<ogra> and make the logo wy less prominent 
<ogra> *way
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll change now and show you
<ogra> make it smaller, move it to the right and add a bit transparency or something, so it doesnt stick so much in your face
<ogra> also the color makes it hard to read icon captions ...
<ogra> they somehow disappera in the background ...
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll pastelise it a little
<ogra> but i like the text and molecules ... we should add a bit more organic stuff 
<cbx33> yeh i thought that
<cbx33> got anything in mind
<ogra> do you know these drawing in botanic books ? 
<ogra> like a pencil drawing of a butterfly slightly faded or something like that
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> yes I know what you mean
<cbx33> off you go then....ogra you can draw the butterfly ;)
<ogra> i thought about just grabbing a photo and potrace that 
<ogra> might also be a flower ...
<ogra> something living ...
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/edu-art/
<cbx33> number 3 ?
<ogra> a lot better 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll get a pic of a flower and trace it
<ogra> remember that we need some space at the bottom for the panel
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I'll putt it up a little later 
<cbx33> s/putt/pull
<ogra> so the logo should move up some px
<ogra> right
<cbx33> um
<cbx33> can I ask you about the manga one
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> what did you want changed ;)
<ogra> well, no idea
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> might be fine as is
<cbx33> are we ok to use for now?
<cbx33> we can tweak later for sure
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> does our usplash have to follow the same format as the others?
<cbx33> sorry
<ogra> and its still the alternate one, so we have more freedom here
<cbx33> not usplash
<cbx33> gdm splash
<ogra> dunno, i havent seen the others :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> the other thing was....ubuntu, not sure about klubuntu has had its log redrawn
<cbx33> logo
<cbx33> http://silentkeystroke.deviantart.com/gallery/
<ogra> lest stick with the logo as is ...
<cbx33> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/5751652/?qo=61&q=by%3Asilentkeystroke+sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps
<ogra> we could probably revive the http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper_art/gnome-splash.png splash
<cbx33> may trace some of that one ;)
<ogra> it would fit with your color selection
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> the flower looks nice ... but seems very complex to trace ...
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> I was gonna cheat a little
<cbx33> get photoshop to trace it
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> oooh looks good
<cbx33> hang on I'll incorporate
<ogra> i could get you a ton of this kind: http://www.tragwerk.org/kunstsyn/GALERIEN/7_FOTO/BIG/13.jpg
<ogra> looks good sounds good :)
<cbx33> I'll show you in a tick
<cbx33> how long are you around for today dude ;)
<ogra> only from time to time 
<ogra> i have to do some stuff on the house ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so
<cbx33> can I just clarify a few things
<cbx33> before you go
<cbx33> young wallpaper, sorted for now
<cbx33> higher ed wallpaper, I'm just making a lst change to
<cbx33> ogra check out number 4 on that page
<cbx33> did you like the splash images lisa did...on the wiki?
<cbx33> we shall work on the gdm login screen
<cbx33> and usplash
<ogra> yep, i liked them
<cbx33> so are we good to work around them?
<cbx33> any comments suggestions ?
<ogra> yup, i think so ...
<ogra> loo up the meeting log where we did the voting ...
<ogra> *look
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> the flower looks beautiful
<cbx33> ;) thanks
<ogra> but i dont like the position ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> the pic gets too much weight to the bottom left
<cbx33> suggest ;)
<ogra> dunno ... top and right art quite empty ...
<ogra> probably just move all the stuff a bit up and right suffices
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> if the photo idea for gdm login doesn't work
<cbx33> we'll try something else...
<cbx33> did you have any speficic ideas for that and usplash?
<cbx33> ogra the kbuntu one you referenced earlier
<cbx33> is it just the blue kubuntu and blue throbber?
<cbx33> not much else on the page? - all black?
<ogra> right
<cbx33> did you want us to follow that
<cbx33> or be a little more inventive?
<cbx33> like not a black screen ;)
<cbx33> what do you tink?
<ogra> well, all we have is golden/yellow ... if you have a nice idea that fits 256 cols and looks slick ....
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu-splash.so thats the quick and dirty one i made 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra did you like the gdm login screens we did already?
<ogra> yes, but its not about me :)
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> but if you're happy it means we can run with it as a prelim
<cbx33> right ;)
<ogra> as a prelim i'D just pick a random one blindly from the wiki :P
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> oi :0
<ogra> if you plan to use the wallpaper drawings in gdm, could you send me a cropped version without wallpaper background ? i can try to make that work in ldm with a solid background color 
<cbx33> ok sure
<cbx33> we can use a png in ldm can't we?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> with transparency
<ogra> but it has to be as small as possible
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> i gathered that
<ogra> ldm is slow enoug on its own ... big pics will slow it down more
<cbx33> that's what I was goign to say ;)
<cbx33> well, I hope to have all the prelim artowkr done by late this afternoon
<cbx33> I'll probably create a deb so I can test it out
<ogra> cool
<ogra> yup
<cbx33> I was going to take the one already there, hack it up and replace images then build
<cbx33> do i need to build a source pacakge and then the proper package for artwork ;)
<cbx33> excuse my ignorance here ;)
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> ogra what new icons did we need to create
<cbx33> willow
<cbx33> SCP ?
<ogra> SCP has one 
<ogra> we should drop the header image in edgy+1 and think about a sane menu or toolbar ...
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> willow needs one, but thats easy
<cbx33> that sounds like einen gut idea
<cbx33> lisa is gonna do one
<ogra> take a globe and put a lock on the bottom right corner
<cbx33> any others?
<ogra> (or something like that)
<ogra> not from the top of my head
<cbx33> ogra to build the usplash what did you say to do...
<ogra> but if there are icons missing, thats a bug, we still have until release to fix bugs ;)
<ogra> run make in the dir where the pngs lie
<cbx33> ograsure
<cbx33> so I get the edubuntu-artwork-usplash ?
<ogra> and replace all occurences of kubuntu with edubuntu in the MAkefile
<cbx33> ah
<ogra> (and the .c files)
<cbx33> doesn't the edubuntu-uplash build yet?
<ogra> ??
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> I have all the images now
<cbx33> did you say get the kubuntu package and build the .so
<ogra> thats what i did
<ogra> and i replaced the pngs ... nothing else 
<cbx33> where do i place that file to test it?
<ogra> that gives you a blue progress bar though
<cbx33> i have new throbber pngs ;)
<ogra> look at /etc/alternatives/uspash-artwork.so
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> thanks
<ogra> that wont help, you need the right hex codes for the colors in the .c file
<cbx33> oh, i thought Dennis said we use images now
<cbx33> theres the fore and background
<ogra> i have red progressbars as well, but the make turns them blue ... :)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> how odd
<ogra> no, the colors are defined in hex codes in the .c file
<cbx33> so what are the pngs for?
<ogra> they need to be adjusted to match ours
<ogra> the shape i think
<TeePOG> good morning
<cbx33> where does pngtousplash come from?
<cbx33> hi TeePOG
<ogra> cbx33, usplash-dev
<TeePOG> hi cbx33
<cbx33> heheh yup
<cbx33> just figured that out
<cbx33> wow...google had nothing on that binary ;)
<cbx33> ogra I don;t have an /etc/alternatives/   usplash anything
<TeePOG> tell me, does sound work remotely over ltsp?
<cbx33> i don't have edubutu-usplash installed
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> would that be it?
<ogra> likely
<ogra> i have no idea where its installed originally ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm sorting it now ;)
<cbx33> got it
<ogra> TeePOG, you need to add SOUND=True to your lts.conf file
<TeePOG> ok ogra, and then it detects your soundcard?
<cbx33> ogra why is that not enabled by default?
<ogra> thats a kernel thing that happens anyway
<cbx33> just outta interest ?
<ogra> SOUND=True just starts the infrastructure on top of the soundcard :)
<ogra> cbx33, not yet ... we'll ship an lts.conf in edgy
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> so that's why ;)
<ogra> including enables locald devices, network swap 16bit colors and sound
<TeePOG> is that the one in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts.conf ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> you need to create one ...
<TeePOG> ahhh ok
<ogra> sudo gedit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<ogra> add the following two lines:
<ogra> [default] 
<ogra> SOUND=True
<cbx33> whhaaa !
<ogra> thats  it ... on next boot your client will have sound
<cbx33> that's not right
<TeePOG> hmm, ok
<cbx33> I just changed the symlink in the /etc/alternatives but it didn;t work
<ogra> eeek
<ogra> dont ever touch /etc/alternatives by hand
<cbx33> but but but
<cbx33> :(
<ogra> replace the image it links to ;)
<cbx33> ok#
<ogra> (make a backup to restore later)
<ogra> or use the proper update-alternatives comamndline to add your image)
<cbx33> ogra
<cbx33> I can't understand this
<cbx33> by default I have a circular resolution in the usplash
<ogra> circular resolution ?
<cbx33> did you install the kubuntu-usplash package?
<ogra> no
<ogra> i just replaced /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so with my generated image file
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> in that folder I have a file that points back to the /etc/alternatives again
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> do you?
<cbx33> usplash-artwork.so
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> and where does that point?
<ogra> for me to /usr/lib/usplash/edubuntu-splash.so
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> for me not
<cbx33> I shall sort it out
<ogra> no idea whats the default here
<ogra> i dont have any plain ubuntu system around atm
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> but i guess you wont have an alternative at all in a default ubuntu
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> it's ok I think I got it
<cbx33> I screwed it up
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> gonna reinstall edubuntu ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hey jono
<jono> hey
<jsgotangco> sorry to hear about the puppy :/ love dogs myself
<TeePOG> ciao all
<TeePOG> bbl
* ogra hugs jono ...
<ogra> oh man
<jono> thanks all :)
<cbx33> i just did something mega stupid
<cbx33> in my haste to fix artwork...I reformatted my laptop
<cbx33> erasing entire disk
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> heheeh
<cbx33> the data isn't critical but would be nice to get it back....once edubutnu has finished installing
<cbx33> anyone know of any data recovery tools ;)
<ogra> if oyu already formatted the chances are very bad to get stuff back
<edgarin> Hi to all
<jsgotangco> hello
<bddebian> Hello
<Yagisan> cbx33, it is hard (and expensive ) to recover that data
<jsgotangco> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Yagisan and jsgotangco
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian, jsgotangco 
<Yagisan> cbx33, best thing to do next time, is to dd an image of the disk
<Yagisan> and we can try to recover the data from the image
<annma> hi
<STORMCHAS3R_> morning
<annma> are you the STORMCHAS3R_ I know?
<STORMCHAS3R_> annma, I doubt it
<STORMCHAS3R_> :)
<annma> OK
<annma> ;)
<annma> I am the KDE-Edu maintainer
<STORMCHAS3R_> w0w, nice to meet you
<annma> that's why I poped here
<STORMCHAS3R_> sweet
<STORMCHAS3R_> edubuntu rox
<annma> yes, it would be good if we collaborate more closely
<STORMCHAS3R_> right, i just wish there was a version geared more to high school/college
<annma> we'd like to know for example if you have feedback from teachers
<annma> you mean more edu apps for high school?
<annma> yes, it would be nice to have several "flavours" of edubuntu depending on the age
<STORMCHAS3R_> annma, that and wallpapers and such
<annma> yes
<annma> are you an edubuntu collaborator?
<STORMCHAS3R_> would like to be
<STORMCHAS3R_> I am trying to push linux in education
<annma> :)
<pygi> annma, what kind of colaboration would you have in mind? :)
<annma> is there someone here whom I can contact regarding a colaboration?
* pygi points annma to sentence above :)
<STORMCHAS3R_> pygi, lol
<STORMCHAS3R_> does anyone know the "Industry trends and Future Implications" with OSS?
* STORMCHAS3R_ is writing a paper for college
<annma> pygi: well, improving our KDE-Edu programs 
<annma> you will have feedback probably from schools
<annma> or teachers
* pygi nods
<cbx33> ogra buddy u sure you didn;t do anything else?
<pygi> annma, I think ogra is the guy you mostly wanna speak with, but I think everyone here might give you opinions
<cbx33> i just did a fresh edubuntu install
<annma> you also may have nice ideas
<cbx33> but it's not working
<annma> pygi: OK, thanks
<pygi> annma, I would suggest you mail the edubuntu-devel list
<pygi> that's the best you could do
<annma> OK
<annma> excelelnt
<annma> found the link, great
<cbx33> ping Seveas
<STORMCHAS3R_> how do you set up a workstation to use LTSP, and could it be used as a diskless client?
<stormbuntu> !ltsp
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ltsp - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stormbuntu> morn
<bddebian> pygi: Still here?
<pygi> bddebian, kinda yes
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<cbx33> hi pygi
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<pygi> hi cbx33 
<pygi> what you broke this time? :)
<pygi> how may I help you bddebian ?
<bddebian> pygi: Need to add $(THREAD_LIBS) to libburn_libburn_foo_LDADD in Makefile.am! :-)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> usplash
<bddebian> pygi: Also, wtf are the package config files?
<pygi> bddebian, ahm, what do you mean?
<pygi> why would I add anything to Makefile.am?
<bddebian> Because it's broken? :-)
<pygi> bddebian, what exactly is broken?
<pygi> it all builds fine for me?
<bddebian> libburn_libburn_la_LDFLAGS = $(THREAD_LIBS) \
<bddebian> When I build it in pbuilder, it doesn't -lpthread for some reason
<pygi> bleh, patch so I can see what are you talking about and explanation why you wanna change it? 
<bddebian> Anyway, the biggest thing holding me up are the package config files
<pygi> bleh, weird :-/
<pygi> bddebian, pbuilder complaining or anything? what? why dont you poke motu people?
<bddebian> Becuase you asked me to package it? :-)
<pygi> lol, right, but -motu people are experts, I'm not :-)
<pygi> I told you not to worry, if it's a problem don't do it :)
<bddebian> No it's not a problem, I just thought maybe you'd know :-)
<pygi> I know nothing :)
<bddebian> Bah
<pygi> bddebian, what?
<bddebian> OK, I'll play with it this afternoon.  I have to head out for a while
<bddebian> I meant "Bah" that you know nothing :-)
<pygi> enjoy and don't worry, just stop doing it ^_^
<pygi> I'll package it one day ^-^
<bddebian> It's a pride thing at this point :-)
<bddebian> OK, gotta run, laterz
<cbx33> ograit ist broken
<cbx33> ogra i managed to break usplash
<cbx33> my machine doesnt even boot now
<ogra> cbx33, so boot without the splash parameter, then it isnt started
<cbx33> ogra didn;t know you could do that
<sbalneav> ogra!
<sbalneav> Hey dude!
<ogra> hey
<sbalneav> You know there's a problem with xkeyboard-config?  It now depends on xkb-data, but that isn't in a metapackage somewhere
<ogra> its already fixed ...
<sbalneav> so an ltsp-build-client fails.
<sbalneav> ah, cool.
<ogra> waiting on the new package to be done
<sbalneav> You are teh star
<sbalneav> ctl-alt-f switching's fixed now, btw
<ogra> there is a bunch of other breakage i wanted to fix today, but due to the breakage i culdnt
<ogra> (like having an empty /etc/nbd-clietn to make vagrants nbdswapd work)
<sbalneav> Due to breakages, you couldn't fix breakages?  Recursion, dude!
<ogra> hehe
<sbalneav> Time to calculate some fibonnacci sequences!
* ogra just got a huge bowl of icecream ...
<sbalneav> What flavour?
<ogra> <- afk for a while :)
<ogra> spaghetti :)
<sbalneav> Spaghetti??!?!
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> on the bottom there is about 1/3 freozen cream then they press vanilla ice through something like a big sieve ... 
<ogra> so it looks like spaghetti
<ogra> and on top there is strawberry marmelade with white chocolate on top
<sbalneav> Yum
<Rondom> spaghetti-ice doesn't seem to be that popular...
<ogra> not outside of germany )
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> ogra: I noticed blender wasn't in edubuntu anymore.  Any reason for the demotion to Universe?
<ogra> a hard ffmpeg dependency
<sbalneav> ah, patents.
<ogra> it cant keep it in main without breaking half of its functionallity
<ogra> (its possible to build it without ffmpeg, but that cripples it a lot)
<cbx33> ogra can you test
<cbx33> these images for me
<cbx33> in usplash
<ogra> sbalneav, ltsp-build-client works fine again 
<ogra> cbx33, a bit later ... my GF wants me for some sunday evening stuff ...
<sbalneav> ogra: Stooper-doope.
<sbalneav> s/.$/r./
<cbx33> ogra soudns ominous ;P
<cbx33> ogra ping me when you're able
<cbx33> I don;t know why this isn;t working
<pygi> sbalneav, hey
<cbx33> but it's ticking me opff
<sbalneav> hello pygi!
<ogra> cbx33, just leave the usplash then ... it will take time anyway to make the buildsystem work ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> just watned to test em :(
<cbx33> see if they worked from an asthetics point of view ;)
<ogra> they will surely be better than mine ...
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> wanna see quikylcy?
<cbx33> I 'll upload to webserver
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/www/edu-art/
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/edu-art/
<stormchas3r> cbx33, nice work there
<ogra> cbx33, later ... btw EduWIP4.jpg looks perfect ... and if the colors work in usplash thats an awesome one :)
<cbx33> my wifes work really
<cbx33> well it's 256
<cbx33> so it should
<cbx33> oh you mean 4
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> check it later ;)
<cbx33> you'll see ;)
<stormchas3r> quick ? for you guys,  when edubuntu boots, and the "edubuntu" logo comes up when the devices load,  how can you change that logo?
<cbx33> stormchas3r: usplash
<ogra> cbx33, i didnt mean 4 for usplash 
<ogra> i meant the usplash pics ...
<stormchas3r> so how would i change this to what Id prefer?
<cbx33> ah ok cool
<cbx33> heheh sorry ogra
<cbx33> go have some fun and relax
<cbx33> I'll build you an artwork pacakge
<stormchas3r> cbx33, you talking to ogra  or I?
<cbx33> ogra
<stormchas3r> dang
<stormchas3r> kk
<cbx33> stormchas3r hehe are you talking about for edgy or dapper?
<stormchas3r> dapper
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<stormchas3r> where can i get edgy?
<cbx33> edgy is still in development
<cbx33> so it's still got bugs
<stormchas3r> gotcha
<maccam94> knock knock, anybody home?
<Burgundavia> maccam94: yep
<maccam94> i'm thinking of switching a high school over to Edubuntu from XP, and I'm thinking compatibility right now. what sorts of school-type apps are there, for things like grading, financing, math formula writing, etc?
#edubuntu 2007-09-03
<LaserJock> good afternoon Edubunters!
<boyam> Hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi boyam
<lns> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi lns
<eddiestone> Hello, does anybody knows a software that helps teachers on their activities?
<Kamping_Kaiser> what actiivities
<eddiestone> evaluations
<eddiestone> I mean, registering tests results
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure. moodle perhaps?
<eddiestone> surely
<eddiestone> but I'd like a desktop software
<eddiestone> I'll keeping looking for it :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You around?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pong
<sbalneav> hey there.
<sbalneav> Aything you'd like to see education-app related in the docs?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I've been thinking a little about that
<LaserJock> traditionally the Doc team has not documented actual apps
<LaserJock> as the apps should have their own help
<LaserJock> but I think we should at least have a decent overview of apps
<sbalneav> Yeah, I'd also like to have at least a small chapter on downloading the extra app cd, and what to do with it.
<sbalneav> it seems to cause a lot of people confusion.
<LaserJock> yes, I *do* want to document the Addon CD much better
<sbalneav> Also, this squeek vm thing seems to generate a lot of interest.
<LaserJock> argg
<sbalneav> Who's maintaining squeek, or squeak
<LaserJock> I wish I had gotten to that
<LaserJock> I touched it most last
<LaserJock> but we need to use completely different packaging
<LaserJock> the stuff we have now is based on some packages for some spanish distro
<sbalneav> hm
<LaserJock> that'll be on the todo list for Hardy
<sbalneav> Hmm, smalltalk
<LaserJock> since it's a Multiverse package I haven't done a ton with it frankly
<LaserJock> we're basically never going to be able to ship it
<sbalneav> bad license?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> some Apple license I think
<LaserJock> and they can't really change it or something
<LaserJock> but I'd love to see us doing more with Universe/Multiverse
<sbalneav> Can we ship uni/multi packages on the addon cd?
<LaserJock> there's a lot of educational apps out there that we just aren't going to be able to ship or officially support
<LaserJock> not presently no
<LaserJock> I have to do a MIR and get them into Main
<LaserJock> we can make something like edubuntu-universe metapacakges though
<sbalneav> Want me to document the addon cd?
<LaserJock> I can do it
<sbalneav> Sure?
<sbalneav> You got time?
<LaserJock> unless you feel the need
<LaserJock> well, I kinda consider it a part of implementing my spec ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm redoing About Edubuntu
<sbalneav> I could use all the doc help I can get :)
<LaserJock> I'm not going to touch LTSP and stuff
<LaserJock> but I can do a bit here and there
<LaserJock> did you see the commit I did yesterday?
<sbalneav> Response to my missive has been, underwhelming, to say the least.
<sbalneav> yeah, I included it in my update.
<LaserJock> moquist proofread the intro
<sbalneav> heh, got one other response. Non technical guy, didn't want to install anything, but if I'd MAIL him a printout of the docs, he'd be happy to check spelling :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I can spell check in vim/emacs/gedit already
<LaserJock> grammar check is nice though
<sbalneav> Wasn't particularily wanting to produce hardcopy, and receive back a red-penciled printout, though :)
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> Well, considering all my work to ltspfs stable enough to merge into my "upstream" branch.
<LaserJock> moquist: up?
<LaserJock> moquist: postgresql instal of moodle didn't work for me. something about not being able to create the user
<LaserJock> moquist: I'll try to get you more info tomorrow
<moquist> shoot; just missed him.
<moquist> ogra: hey
<ogra> yo
<moquist> ogra: If I drop a new postinst into /var/lib/dpkg/info how can I test it? I think laserjock said 'dpkg -i moodle', but dpkg doesn't know about 'moodle'.
<moquist> I ran 'apt-get install moodle' and it failed, so it's already been unpacked and everything. I'm assuming/hoping I can just change postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info and test immediately...
<ogra> you can drop all the files in a dir and execute the postinst manually
<ogra> needs .template and .config iirc
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> dpkg-reconfigure moodle should do it
<ogra> or just dpkg -i it manually
<moquist> /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: moodle is broken or not fully installed
<ogra> ah
<ogra> well, then dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archive/moodle*
<moquist> ok...and it will use the modified postinst that's already in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ ?
<ogra> no
<moquist> :)
<ogra> but you need to get it installed before you can play with the postinst via reconfigure
<moquist> Do I need to rebuild the source package to test a new postinst? That's what I've been doing and it's slow.
<moquist> OK; that makes sense.
<ogra> well, as i said, i usually put postinst and .template in one dir and execute the postinst manually ... but then my postinst scripts arent very complax usually
<ogra> *complex
<ogra> if you are missing biuts, you probably need to comment stuff in the script to make it run
<moquist> No, that should work here.
<moquist> (a couple things just 'clicked' for me...I think)
<moquist> biuts?
<RichEd> hi ogra & moquist ...
<moquist> RichEd: hey-a
<RichEd> nice mail this morning from the US
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd> > A little more about the project...I have an eight year old daughter in a
<RichEd> > private school near Seattle Washington. Parents are expected to contribute
<RichEd> > time as well as money to the school. I opened my mouth about the virtues of
<RichEd> > Ubantu and proposed a small thin client network for school.
<ogra> bits :)
<RichEd> >
<RichEd> > Apparently someone decided it was a good idea for the entire chain of
<RichEd> > seventy three schools across America. (Me and my big mouth.) The deployment
<RichEd> > is about five thousand thin clients.
<RichEd> <endquote>
<ogra> \o/
<RichEd> indeed ... a seed school in many areas would be even better than a district
<RichEd> and seeing as it is a private school chain, there is no "unilateral blocking decision" from above
<moquist> nice!
<highvoltage> RichEd: excellent!
<RichEd> highvoltage: most excellent
<highvoltage> I stand corrected
<highvoltage> RichEd: most excellent!
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<moquist> ogra: bah. it is broken. I must sleep. I will work on it later today.
<ogra> relax :)
<rimakemp> Hi, I am new to open source. I am working at an independent school in canberra Australia, I want to find out about setting up edubuntu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, hi mate :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, what do you need to find out?
<rimakemp> Hi how are you?
<Kamping_Kaiser> good. distracting myself with IRC
<rimakemp> is it worth while? how compatible is it with mainstream software? does it run in tandem etc. well?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, very, i think so
<Kamping_Kaiser> in that order ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> if you can be slightly more specific about your question, i might be able to give slightly better answers
<Kamping_Kaiser> btw mate, theres an #ubuntu-au if you want to hang out with some more people in your timezone ;)
<rimakemp> Our school has received funding for a new computer lab and we are constantly being donated old computers with no operating system. the funds for software are not freely available for OS purchase. We are currently running windows xp. Is it feasible to intergrate edubuntu with our existing network and will it mix smoothly? (a little tired of being at the whim of Microsoft)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes its feasable, how easy it is to integrate i cant really comment on, but it will be easy or hard depending on your existing network complexity
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent tried integrating it myself
<rimakemp> how hard is it to learn the edubuntu OS?
<Kamping_Kaiser> *shrug* depends how fast you learn (and how open minded you are about a new style of operating). after a few months you should know the basics pretty well
<Kamping_Kaiser> and after that it gets easier as you go
<Kamping_Kaiser> also i dont know what the new releases look like, they may be easier/harder then 6.06 (which was my last edubuntu system)
<rimakemp> Great! where are you situated?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Adelaide hills :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rimakemp, i seriously suggest you jump into #ubuntu-au and say hi
<rimakemp> Thanks for your advice. I will research it further and I will check out #ubuntu-au now
<Kamping_Kaiser> np
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<RichEd> jillc has updated her artwork taking note of our comments:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<RichEd> ogra ... take a look at the potential default [eduWorld.png]  and let me know if it's better
* ogra is using #1 as background now 
<ogra> the logo needs to move up a bit (its covered by the panel)
<ogra> and half the space between the logo and the right side would make it look better
<ogra> (move it to the right 50%)
<ogra> beyond that i'd take it as is :)
<RichEd> ogra: with the new gentler logo ?
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> okay ... i'll ask for the logo move
<ogra> te panel covers the bottom spot of the logo here
<ogra> s/bottom spot/half of the bottom spot/
<RichEd> ogra: spiral also looks great now in earthtones
<ogra> yup
<ogra> oh, did you see the other one ?
<RichEd> ogra: ? which other one ?
<ogra> i see you added that ...
<ogra> wiredubuntu.png
* ogra checked the wiki history
<ogra> its nice
<RichEd> that's from another dude who sent it via lisa alienvegas
<RichEd> so we have 2 contributors
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> he seems to like dark backgrounds, could make a good usplash for us probably
* RichEd heads off for kids duty
<moquist> ogra: when I execute the postinst standalone, it runs fine.
<moquist> LaserJock: hey!
<LaserJock> hi moquist
<LaserJock> moquist: you are right, I didn't install postgresql first
<moquist> LaserJock: I was just telling ogra that when I execute the postinst standalone, it works fine. But now I think I was wrong.
<LaserJock> but I saw that a bunch of postgresql related packages being installed so I thought it would work
<moquist> LaserJock: In the course of ditching 'sudo' in favor of 'su', I found a temporary-for-testing 'if false' in my postinst, and I've run into some other problem. 8-(
* moquist nods
<moquist> That's why we concluded that there should be a moodle-standalone metapackage.
<LaserJock> it seemed weird to me because it looked to me like I had to install both mysql *and* postgresql to install moodle
<LaserJock> moquist: are you working on the -standalone metapackage now?
<moquist> LaserJock: not yet; i'm just working on the above problems for the regular package
<LaserJock> moquist: do you know what deps specifically are needed?
<moquist> well, probably exactly the same + either "postgres" or "mysql-server"
<moquist> ...whichever one we want to support.
<moquist> I know mysql doesn't have ACID, etc., but it's what the vast majority of moodle sites use, and it's easier (IMO) to use than postgres.
<moquist> And these default moodle's we're putting in are only set up to be accessible as http://localhost/moodle, so we're obviously not targetting huge installations.
<LaserJock> ogra: have you got an opinion on what DB should be default for a moodle-standalone package?
* moquist is having quoting annoyances with su...which is why he used sudo the first time around. ;)
<moquist> Oh, the package is "postgresql". But you knew that.
<moquist> bah - createdb is working sudo and not working with su.
<moquist> I wonder if it's related to the ROLE password for the database owner/user.
<moquist> LaserJock: I'd like to create a [different]  package with an /etc/init.d/script and an /etc/default/config file. I looked at another package that has those (mpd) and it was non-obvious to me how they are handled. Can you give me any tips?
<LaserJock> moquist: not much. you might check another similar package and talk to #ubuntu-motu
<moquist> k; thx
<moquist> LaserJock: are you guys looking for something to kill off leftover processes that hang around after sessions are terminated?
<moquist> dtrask tells me so.
<moquist> I was hoping to get my xterminator in at some point, but dtrask tells me ogra is looking for something now.
<moquist> I'll plop it up on REVU, anyway. It's one of the packages for which I want an /etc/default/config file.
<LaserJock> I don't know what's up for gutsy at least
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> David was emailing about it to -devel
<moquist> yeah
<moquist> it may be dtrask pushing to get it more than ogra ;)
<LaserJock> obviously this isn't the tim to be feature planning though ;-)
<moquist> I tried to get it into my PPA but I don't have that figured out yet. My source was rejected.
<moquist> yeah, nk
<LaserJock> moquist: are you a Launchpad Beta Tester?
<moquist> that's why.
* moquist smacks forehead
<moquist> why did it even let me activate my PPA, then?
<moquist> PPA says to me "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution"
<LaserJock> I don't know, LP thing I guess
<LaserJock> it's supposed to go live for everybody in a few weeks or so I think
* moquist tries to figure out how to become a beta tester
<LaserJock> moquist: join #launchpad real quick
<moquist> LaserJock: I just uploaded 'xterminator' to my PPA so hopefully that'll show up now.
<moquist> LaserJock: I've just uploaded a fixed moodle package to REVU, but it's not showing up yet.
<moquist> I've also uploaded xterminator to my PPA, but I don't see that, yet, either.
<LaserJock> it'll take some time for stuff in PPA to build
<moquist> yep
<LaserJock> it has to be put in the buildd queue
<moquist> but does REVU have to build the package before http://revu.tauware.de/index.py shows the latest upload date?
<LaserJock> no, REVU doesn't build a package at all
<moquist> Didn't think so.
<LaserJock> it just has a ~ 5min cron job
<moquist> You mean I have to wait 5 WHOLE MINUTES?!? OK.
* boyam rubs moquist's head..."no, just up to 5 minutes"...here here's your pacifier...LOL!
<boyam> hehe
<boyam> i couldnt resist
* moquist coos happily
<boyam> :-)
<moquist> LaserJock: OK, REVU's cron job has now run. :)
<LaserJock> good, the universe is saved
<moquist> I thought the universe was frozen.
<LaserJock> not MOTU Universe
<LaserJock> I meant, *the* universe
* moquist knew
* moquist was being a dork
<LaserJock> my boss says that all the time
<LaserJock> we'll be working out some crazy math
<LaserJock> and in the end we get it to work out and he says "phew, the universe is preserved"
* moquist grins
<moquist> That's great.
<moquist> Because math, you know, actually has something to do with the universe. Somehow...it's not really clear how, though. Hmm.
<LaserJock> well, because our math is the fundamentals of why the universe is the way it is
<LaserJock> if it was just math for math's sake sure ;-)
<moquist> Sure is good we made up math, then! :-D
<LaserJock> those imaginary numbers sure come in handy
<moquist> Aren't they all imaginary?
* moquist is being a much more sophisticated dork this time
<moquist> I'm not looking to have a real discussion about Phil. of Math right now. I'm just playing. I'll stop b/c it's off-topic.
<LaserJock> sorry, was afk
<LaserJock> physically we see a difference between real and imaginary numbers
<LaserJock> so the mental abstraction may be all imaginary, but the concrete physicality remains, IMO
<moquist> sure
<moquist> woohoo - my PPA built.
<LaserJock> but it's always curious to me that the wavefunction, that describes any particle in the universe completely, is an imaginary function
<LaserJock> but you square it to get a real function and that becomes the probability
<moquist> Yeah. The more deeply you try to dive into anything like that (or into the philosophy behind the science), the more you realize that we have a lot of trouble trying to explain much of anything at such a level.
<moquist> I'm going to test my PPA and then send a note out to the list(s) inviting people to test xterminator.
<LaserJock> k
#edubuntu 2007-09-04
<LaserJock> moquist: how's moodle coming?
<moquist> LaserJock: the one in REVU should be good.
<moquist> LaserJock: I haven't done anything with metapackaging yet.
<LaserJock> k
<moquist> LaserJock: just 'apt-get install mysql-server' or 'apt-get install postgresql' first. ;)
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi!
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> moquist: ok now with the new package and no DB installed I get something about can't find pg_lsclusters you must create PostgreSQL database manual
<LaserJock> I'm guessing that's what it's supposed to do
<moquist> You installed the moodle package w/o installing mysql-server or postgresql first, then you selected postgresql, and asked it to create the default database. Yeah, that sounds right.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> moquist: alright, postgresql seems to have worked fine
<moquist> yay!
<LaserJock> moquist: hmm, it seems to hang on removal though
* moquist is embarrassed to admit why that might be
<LaserJock> can you admit it in pm so I can fix it? ;-)
<moquist> The reason is that I never, even once, tested removal. Or upgrade.
<moquist> Look! It hangs!
<moquist> My *other* packages never needed special testing. They've always Just Worked(TM). :-E
<moquist> That's not an excuse, or anything. I'm just saying.
<moquist> LaserJock: http://n01se.net/paste/Ke4?pretty=yes
<LaserJock> you're going to be such a packaging guru by the time you're done with this package
<moquist> LaserJock: that makes me think that postrm completed, but I haven't actually started looking into it yet.
<moquist> Of course, I didn't change anything [that I remember]  in relation to removal, so it's not unreasonable that I should expect it to work. I wonder if the upstream package removes properly...
<moquist> LaserJock: I'm curious about the case in postrm. Since it looks like postrm gets called with 'remove' as the first argument (judging and guessing based on the comments at the top), wouldn't that case complain about an unknown argument in every situation when you don't --purge?
<moquist> And why would this be what we want?
<moquist> Oh - and the 'ps' output I pasted above also shows moodle.postrm being called with 'remove' (I think)
<moquist> I'm not at all familiar with /usr/share/debconf/frontend at this point.
<moquist> ah-ha! there's a tabbing problem on that case statement.
<moquist> Yeah, it looks like postrm finished. The webserver has been restarted, and that should be the last thing that postrm does, unless it's being called with 'purge', which it isn't.
<moquist> LaserJock: the original package removes just fine.
<LaserJock> did you change the postrm?
<moquist> LaserJock: I changed postrm to use invoke-rc.d ${webserver} restart instead of . /usr/share/wwwconfig-common/restart.sh
<LaserJock> that's it?
<moquist> I think so; I'm diffing and pasting.
<LaserJock> it seems weird that that would cause it to hang
<moquist> original: http://n01se.net/paste/GsF?pretty=yes
<moquist> new: http://n01se.net/paste/aWw?pretty=yes
<moquist> diff: http://n01se.net/paste/KoP?pretty=yes
<moquist> I'm not quoting as carefully as I should, but other than that it looks like I think it should.
<crimsun> (`diff -uN` is generally preferable)
<LaserJock> I don't see why it'd hang
<moquist> diff-uN: http://n01se.net/paste/9Hw?pretty=yes
<moquist> OK; I added an echo immediately before the last exit 0 and it printed.
<moquist> postrm is completing.
<moquist> and exiting with 0.
<moquist> here's the process stack, which shows moodle.postrm <defunct> and the parent process in interruptible sleep: http://n01se.net/paste/MWy?pretty=yes
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<moquist> sbalneav: hiya
<moquist> LaserJock: given that postrm is actually completing and exiting with 0, I don't know what to do next.
<sbalneav> Hi LaserJock, say, was going to add a brief chapter on Sabayon and Pesselus tonight.  You're doing an addon cd chapter, you said?
<sbalneav> hey moquist
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I think so
<LaserJock> I think sabayon and pesselus would  be great
<LaserJock> moquist: may be time to ask -motu
<moquist> LaserJock: I emailed -motu
<LaserJock> well, I was meaning #ubuntu-motu, but ok
<sanjay> Does Edubuntu come with any capacity for acting as a filter?
<lns> sanjay, url filter? no, but you can get software that will
<lns> i would actually recommend using something like IPCop (ipcop.org) on a firewall, and get the advproxy and urlfilter mods...they work very well
<sanjay> Righto, cheers lns.
<sanjay> Next question: Is it at all practical to have a VM session under LTSP?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<sanjay> Let clients access windows through a VM
<LaserJock> hmm, I would think if the server was good enough to run the VM well it shouldn't be much of a problem
<LaserJock> although I can't say that I've ever tried it
<LaserJock> what kinda of VM app are you thinking of using?
<sanjay> I've not got much of an idea just yet.
<sanjay> My project for the upcoming semester is to port one of my school's labs to Linux.
<sanjay> I've played with LTSP at home before, and it seems like the natural choice.
<sanjay> Only, there are a few Windows-only apps that may be required.
<sanjay> The school's TCO for Windows is in the hundreds of thousands...:-/
<lns> sanjay, I'm in the exact same position you are - I have 7 schools (in a single district) to convert from WinXP/2000 to Ubuntu and LTSP
<lns> I'm starting to see their requirements for some Windows-only apps, like a reading and math program
<LaserJock> I think David Trask was talking about using a VM for windows
<LaserJock> I think it's definately doable
<LaserJock> heck, I kinda do it myself anyway
<sanjay> I'm just worried about the server dying.
<LaserJock> run VMWare Server on my server and ssh -X to it from the laptop and run the client
<lns> sanjay, what's the hardware on the server
<LaserJock> and that's over my wifi
<sanjay> I find out later today.
<sanjay> Is a VM prone to crashing at all?
<lns> not more than the OS is already prone to crash ;)
<sanjay> As in, stable enough to stake the whole lab on?
<lns> I wouldn't see why not at all, again as long as the server hardware can handle it
<LaserJock> like everybody at once?
<lns> sanjay, you're talking about having a single VM going on the edubuntu server, correct? not a bunch of them
<sanjay> lns, that or having people use a VM from the thin clients (which I personally feel is a terrible idea)
<LaserJock> I think he's saying a VM per thin client, or maybe I'm misundertanding
<lns> sanjay, no don't use a VM at each thin client
<sanjay> LaserJock, I'm thinking both, really. It's just, if the server crashes, then all the clients go down.
<lns> in all reality, if your server goes down, production is very much limited anyway
<lns> I've never had a problem with LTSP/edubuntu's stability
<lns> and a VM (like vmware) is just as stable as the actual server. it uses generic hardware so windows can access it "natively" - its pretty much universal
<LaserJock> yeah
<sanjay> Ah, I see.
<LaserJock> I've seen where a Uni made a whole company in VMware
<lns> just things like running games and video related stuff would be kinda weird
<LaserJock> to simulate sysadmining
<lns> yeah
<sanjay> Right, thanks then. One more thing to cross off my list!
<LaserJock> if the hardare is enough to run it, it'll run
<lns> I'm probably going to end up doing this at my schools, too
<LaserJock> *hardware
<sanjay> Is it practical to connect multiple server machines?
<lns> how do you mean
<sanjay> Having one in each room, with them all reporting to a central machine
<sanjay> I'd guess that it'd be a bit of a silly bottleneck to have, and require copious amounts of hardware.
<lns> all edubuntu servers?
<sanjay> yeah
<lns> how many clients do you have total in the building
<lns> and what is your server hardware
<sanjay> As I said, I'm not sure of the server hardware yet. I suppose it'd be your standard high school server machine...about 100-150 clients
<lns> well i can't account for more than 35, but we use an HP Proliant ML370 G5
<lns> and i think it's way more than we need
<lns> dual quad core xeons (3.0GHz) and 8GB RAM
<sanjay> That's fairly reassuring.
<lns> something like that would probably be able to handle at least 100 clients, as far as I've read anyway
<sanjay> The cookbook suggested 128MB of RAM per client
<lns> haven't field tested it
<lns> that's plenty, i have some with 64mb and they're fine
<lns> isn't the new LTSP supposed to be able to server ones with 32mb just fine?
<lns> i think a major factor in client ram is the stress on video that will be used
<sanjay> Well, given it's a standard school, I think the Lab would be restricted to OOo and Firefox
<lns> sanjay, saying 'standard school' doesn't really say much (to me, anyway)
<lns> what is their budget for the system? do you know how much they value their labs?
<lns> some schools are really skimpy on IT costs
<sanjay> Let me explain my situation a bit further...
<sanjay> after a brush with the district school board IT lads last year, the local sysadmin and I had a chat and she offered to give me one lab, after school, to try and implement a Linux-based solution for the school. If it was successful, she'd work with me to gradually expand it.
<sanjay> Because their TCO on Windows is in the hundreds of thousands
<sanjay> Judging from their prior expenses, they spend around $50,000 a year on updating their systems
<lns> wow
<lns> it really is true...fat clients in general are so much more to maintain
<sanjay> lns, they're not skimpy on IT; they're just stupid.
<sanjay> Yeah.
<lns> if you have a basic need for computers (like in education) thin clients really make sense
<sanjay> Yeah.
<lns> its just getting all the stuff they're used to either compatible or replaced that's the tricky part
<sanjay> Yep.
<lns> that's what I've got to do with my schools - our situation sounds incredibly similar
<sanjay> That's why they're suggesting a gradual transition.
<sanjay> :-P
<sanjay> Hey, do you know Citrix?
<lns> only the IT admin had me side by side with windows thin clients implementing at another school
<lns> not really
<lns> i know how it works though
<sanjay> They tried it across four high schools.
<lns> ok
<sanjay> The project lasted two years, failed miserably
<sanjay> Cost them $800,000
<lns> question 1: were the administrators capable?
<sanjay> Nope.
<lns> ;)
<sanjay> They had to hire two more Citrix pros.
<sanjay> Before Citrix, it was a two-man team
<lns> citrix is supposed to be very good if implemented correctly
<sanjay> Yeah, I've heard.
<lns> but, of course, you're still dealing with microsoft in the end
<sanjay> Ah, Microsoft...
<sanjay> So, how did moving students to Linux go?
<lns> where are your schools if you don't mind me asking?
<sanjay> Ontario, Canada.
<lns> i'm at school 2/7 right now starting to build the server
<lns> cool
<lns> i'm in california
<sanjay> Nice.
<lns> the students like it
<lns> the biggest issues are that the admins know 0 about linux
<lns> let alone how thin clients work
<LaserJock> lns: where in California?
<lns> i know i'm going to be spending a lot of time teaching them Gnome and things like that (administration, lockdown, etc)
<lns> LaserJock, Sonoma County
<lns> northern, about an hour north of San Francisco
<sanjay> I'm peeking around the school board budget...
<LaserJock> lns: ah, cool. I'm in Reno, NV
<lns> the trouble for me is also going to be finding people around here that know linux that i can contract/hire
<LaserJock> lns: so about 4 or so hrs drive away
<lns> LaserJock, nice
<sanjay> $15,000 on a "Ride-on Scrubber"
<lns> yeah, and some good gambling ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<lns> maybe i'll have to take a 'business trip' out there haha
<lns> sanjay, ?
<sanjay> They spent $15,000 on a pavement cleaner that you can sit on.
<lns> hahaha
<lns> yeah get a good server ;)
<sanjay> lns: Have you worked with contracting people in the past?
<lns> sanjay, yes, a bit
<lns> i'm a one man show right now, with lots of windows clients
<sanjay> Is it a basket of hell?
<lns> but i really want to put my bread and butter into LTSP in education
<lns> sanjay, its actually not bad
<lns> i have some good processes in place
<lns> but LTSP is a learning experience for me as well
<lns> there's a lot I'd love to contribute but I don't know how
<lns> because i'd love to see thin-client-manager and tools like that really start to be developed more
<lns> all of the teachers are really excited about that
<sanjay> I'm looking at it now...looks like a brilliant tool.
<lns> i'd really love to have some central place to go to pay some people to develop that type of software for LTSP
<lns> that would add so much value to my own contracts with the district
<sanjay> Mmm. I remember a site where you'd pay people to fix particular bugs.
<lns> and the money flows where its supposed to go
<sanjay> "Bounties"
<lns> hmm
<lns> i know hireacontractor.com or something like that
<lns> never had much luck with it though
<sanjay> Could TCM manage other clients from a client, provided it had the right privileges?
<lns> i think ogra should find some good people and start a support business for LTSP ;)
<sanjay> Or is it serverside?
<sanjay> Looks like I'd use it :P
<lns> pretty sure you can
<sanjay> "Screen Viewing"...now that'll be a Godsend
<RichEd> hi LaserJock lns sanjay
<lns> what's up RichEd
<lns> sanjay, that's exactly what the teachers are excited about too
<lns> and being able to share it, say on a projector
<sanjay> Heya, RichEd
<RichEd> lns: spotted your comment above about wanting to contribute :)
<lns> RichEd, are you a developer?
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> lns: not a developer ... nope ... I manage the Education Programme for Canonical
<lns> ahh!
<lns> lots of 'big wigs' seem to like to hang out here ;)
<RichEd> lns: well it's my office :)
<lns> nice.
<lns> That alone is enough for someone like me to want to switch all to linux support
<lns> i love the close contact with the head people here
<LaserJock> heh, hadn't thought of it that way before
<LaserJock> being able to talk to Mark via IRC is one of those things that shocks people sometimes ;-)
<lns> i'm just one of the thousands of IT consultants around, but having a line of communication like this with any given software project is invaluable t ome
<RichEd> lns: just sharing your experiences with Edubuntu with your colleagues is a good start to contributing, but what would also be a big help is that if you put together any docs for your school & teachers, be sure to share them with us
<lns> it's like talking to celebrities. ;)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> quick, get his autograph ;-)
<lns> =p
<lns> RichEd, i definitely will, and you gave me a great idea to help them by writing documentation
<lns> i'm still in the implementation phase, the wave is just starting to hit around the district
* LaserJock bows before the mighty RichEd
<lns> but i know i'm going to need backup
<lns> and i'm just not totally sure where to go for someone that will be able to work with me fixing issues at the schools once i have 7 to look after
<lns> not to mention my other contract clients i have to keep handling
<RichEd> lns: out guys who hang out here are generally pretty tech oriented ... whereas, as you know, teachers are real people ... so we need more docs at the follow the yellow footprints level
<RichEd> *our guys ... not out guys
<lns> very true RichEd
<LaserJock> RichEd: we aren't real people? :(
<LaserJock> ;-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: real_people_+
<lns> one thing that i really wish would be implemented is having vino start at gdm on the server so the admins can log in themselves..i have a howto, but the more manual stuff i have to implement, the more can break later after updates, etc.
<RichEd> not vanilla real people
* LaserJock thinks about the fact that he's been online/computer for 12+hrs today and it's past midnight
<LaserJock> ok, maybe you've got a point
<RichEd> LaserJock will be buried with a notebook one day
<LaserJock> a CMPC maybe
<lns> =p
<LaserJock> that'll be lighter
<RichEd> he'll still attend the occasional meeting
<LaserJock> as LaserJock_ghost
<RichEd> :)
<lns> so does Canonical have some sort of program for supporting LTSP setups, say, for remote troubleshooting?
<RichEd> lns: I came to my desk at this point above: "the trouble for me is also going to be finding people around here that know linux that i can contract/hire"
<RichEd> and add this: "and i'm just not totally sure where to go for someone that will be able to work with me fixing issues at the schools once i have 7 to look after"
<RichEd> a good place to start is by looking up your loco team ... is there one in your state ?
<lns> loco team? like a lug?
<lns> good idea!
<LaserJock> there is a California LoCo team I believe
<RichEd> yep ... let me get the page for you ... they are good to network with
<lns> awesome
<LaserJock> I think there are quite a few people in the San Jose area, naturally
<RichEd> and also sending a mail to the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users mail list is fine if you are looking for edubuntu resources / skills ... we won't see job offers as spam
<lns> i'm actually right next to o'rielly, they have a lug there that i've been to in the past
<lns> o'reilly*
<RichEd> lns: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<lns> cool, thanks!
<sanjay> Is this a reasonable work plan?: System requirements, current solution, problems with current solution (Stupidly high TCO), proposed solution, benefits of proposition (FOSS and whatnot), implementation and costs, backdatedability
<RichEd> lns: here specifically : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam
<lns> beat you to it ;)
* RichEd had another thread going :)\
<RichEd> and I presume you know where to find our mail lists ?
<lns> already a part of them
<RichEd> jus' checkin' :)
<lns> ;)
<RichEd> lns: and finally, do you have a listing in our Ubuntu Marketplace ?
<lns> i don't think so
<RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/commercial/marketplace
<RichEd> Canonical Marketplace
<RichEd> There is a growing network of companies that provide local support for desktops and servers running Ubuntu. Find a company close to you, or get your own company listed in the marketplace.
<RichEd> ^ so basically, if you offer any services around Ubuntu, you can get listed for free on the web sitge
<RichEd> *site
<lns> sounds good, will do that! =)
<RichEd> (first step towards becoming a partner)
<RichEd> what might be useful for you is to look up other companies in the listings, and to say hi to them ... at this stage of linux commercial business, it's a matter of all helping to make the pie bigger, not really about competing for clients / business
* RichEd stops now with the "sales schmooze" to let the techies get back to "real discussions" :)
<lns> =p
<lns> no this is all very relevant information
<lns> for me anyway ;)
<lns> ok, i just submitted my form for marketplace
<lns> although my website doesn't have any linux-specific information on it yet
<RichEd> lns: re ^ linux info ... whip up a quick blog post on the merits of LTSP, Edubuntu and the cool people in this channel, and then you've got enough linux stuff for the listing, seeing as you have OLPC and open-source voting machines as front page teasers for existing posts
<lns> will do! =)
<lns> I'm definitely going to write an actual page as well
<jsgotangco> hello
<lns> hi jsgotangco
<lns> and goodbye everyone, i'm off to the depths of unconsciousness
<sanjay> Bye, lns!
<sanjay> Holy fricking Christ it's 03:46
<sanjay> I have to go back to school in 4 hours :-O
<ari_stress> hello
<ari_stress> guys, i'm installing ltsp5 on 64bit for 32bit clients. the client environment is done. but i changed the ip address of the ltsp server. now, when i try to ltsp-update-sshkeys it said that WARNING: /opt/ltsp/./amd64/etc/ssh not found. skipping...
<ari_stress> and the effect is that clients cannot logon
<ari_stress> when i try to logon fron console, the error is: login incorrect
<RichEd> ari_stress: if no-one answers in a few minutes ... ping ogra ... or try the same question in #ltsp
<ogra> ari_stress, you cant log in on console on thin clients ...
<ari_stress> hi ogra
<ari_stress> i found this error:
<ogra> does /opt/ltsp/i386 exist ?
<ari_stress> sh: /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter: not found
<ari_stress> yes it exists
<ogra> hmm, thats not a default edubuntu, is it ?
<ari_stress> is there any steps installing ltsp5 that i miss?
<ari_stress> ogra, it's feisty 64bit
<ogra> i guess you only used the ltsp-server package ...
<ari_stress> i thougt so too
<ogra> -standalone has some extra dependencies ...
<ogra> you need ltspfs installed for ltspfsmounter
<ogra> but anyway, ine thing at a time ....
<ari_stress> ok, i'll install ltspfs
<ari_stress> it's funny though
<ari_stress> i think i remember read it somewhere about the need of installing ltspfs
<ari_stress> i guess i forgot :D
<ogra> is /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts existing ? and /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<ogra> and does the content differ ?
<ari_stress>  /opt/ltsp/amd64 is empty because i don't build any for 64bit clients
<ari_stress> i'm installing ltspfs now
<ari_stress> ok rebooting
<burnerx> i installed new applications from synaptic on the server, how do i give user access to it ?
<ari_stress> burnerx: on the server or on the clients environment?
<burnerx> i think on the clients envirnoment... i want the users be able to use the application
<ari_stress> it's not visible to the client?
<LaserJock> ogra: morning
<ogra> LaserJock, hey
<burnerx> should it be visible right away without any changes ?
<ogra> yes
<burnerx> well, i just installed AbiWord, and that should show up without me editing anything?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> should be in your office menu
<burnerx> i tried the Screen Viewer under the Thin Client Manager, and it told me to install X11vnc on my client
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<ari_stress> ogra: i still cannot logon from the clients. if i remember correctly, ltspfs is only needed for mounting usbdisk?
<ari_stress> there's no more ltspfsmount error again though
<ogra> good
<ogra> is that gutsy or feisty ?
<ogra> ah, you said feisty
<ari_stress> feisty
<ari_stress> yes
<ogra> do you have a /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts file ?
<ari_stress> yes there is
<ogra> does it contain anything ?
<ari_stress> it contains lots of keys of the server ip
<ari_stress> and the server name
<ogra> lots == ?
<ogra> more than four ?
<ari_stress> let me count
<ari_stress> just 4
<ogra> that should be fine then
<ogra> the server ip is right in that file ?
<ari_stress> since /opt/ltsp/amd64 is empty, i create a symlink from i386, is it ok?
<ari_stress> yes the server ip is correct
<ogra> should work, yes ...
<ogra> just not the other way around :)
<ogra> since you wouldnt see it from the client
<ari_stress> the symptoms is tend to the wrong ssh-keys, don't you think?
<ogra> so if you run ltsp-update-sshkeys with the symlink in place, does the file change ?
<ari_stress> should i empty the file first? to make sure
<ari_stress> i create the symlink because lstp-update-sshkeys will error if there's no /opt/ltsp/amd64
<ogra> can you run the following:
<ogra>  BASE=/opt/ltsp; find ${BASE} -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type d 2>/dev/null
<ogra> and paste the output here
<ari_stress> ok
<ogra> (thats how ltsp-update-sshkeys determines the chroots)
<burnerx> it said "Couldn't Find package x11vnc"
<ogra> burnerx, hmm, you likely need universe enabled in the chroot ... do the following:
<ari_stress> ogra: the result is: /opt/ltsp/i386
<ogra> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update
<ogra> then repeat what is on the wikipage
<burnerx> ok
<ari_stress> btw, should i install the ltspfs in the server or the client env?
<ari_stress> wait a mic
<ari_stress> min
<ogra> ari_stress, hmm, then its unlikely thats your problem, can you check ~/.xsession-errors of the user you try to log in with ?
<ogra> ltspfs needs to go on the server
<ari_stress> ogra
<ogra> oh, wait, where did you see that error about ltspfsmounter ? in a log on the server ?
<ari_stress> i found it
<ari_stress> i forgot
<ari_stress> it's not about the ltspfs
<ari_stress> it's my ldap
<ogra> ahhh
<ari_stress> my server needs to connect to ldap
<ari_stress> i forgot to update the libnss-ldap and pam-ldap in the client env
<ari_stress> in the first server i forgot to document this step
<ari_stress> let me try to update it
<ogra> make sure the user is in the fuse group then and the fuse group needs to have the same GID in your ldap as it has on the server
<ogra> else local devices wont work
<ari_stress> ok
<ari_stress> thank you so much ogra, you're the best
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> ari_stress: ogra is where "the ltsp tyre meets the road"
<ari_stress> RichEd: 100% agree :D
<burnerx> this is cool
<ari_stress> this makes me wonder though, in case I don't use LDAP and use passwd instead, so i need to create the user INSIDE the client env? not the server?
<RichEd> ogra: when you have a spare moment, please tell me which of jillc's desktops work best re logo placement ... tx
<RichEd> (don't want to load all variations on the wiki page ... only the best)
<ogra> Edubuntu_global-sept307b.png
<ogra> the other one is to close to the edgy with the logo imho
<ogra> and indeed i'm happy if its mentioned on groklaw :)
<RichEd> i've composed a mail ... just not sent ... saying 95% certainty barring the usual release glitches
<ogra> right
<RichEd> "usual release glitches" ... ahem let me rephrase that:  barring the usual glitches or uncertainities with any release process"
<RichEd> not to imply that *buntu releases usually have glitches :)
<ogra> heh
<ari_stress> hmm still not go. i cannot logon to X
<ari_stress> very strange
<ari_stress> i check with the old server, and i can logon
<ari_stress> in the old server, i cannot logon from console, but i can from ZX
<ari_stress> X
<ari_stress> interesting findings
<ari_stress> when i try to logon locally to the server
<ari_stress> i cannot logon with error:
<ari_stress> Could not get password database information for UID of current process: User ??? unknown or no memory to allocate pasword entry
<ogra> looks like a prob with your ldap setup
<ari_stress> i'm copied the confs from the previous server
<ari_stress> the getent passwd and group works
<ari_stress> it's related specifically to X login i guess because sshd-ing into the server works
<ari_stress> intentionally put a wrong password correctly checked as 'authentication failed'
<ari_stress> login using failsafe gnome reveals that actually X can know the uid, but not the name
<ari_stress> could it be a bug?
<ari_stress> wow now i cannot login as a local user either
<ari_stress> superb
<Nubaae> hi there
<Nubaae> So, I'm trying to connect a terminal to my ltsp setup, which has an all fglrx setup right now, so this new computer has a different network card (nv) When I adapt the lts.conf file to reflect this, via [mac address here]  followed by XSERVER=nv, it doesnt work
<ogra> nv is used by default anyway
<Nubaae> I've tried restarting the server, though this shouldn't be necessary...
<ogra> no
<ogra> it isnt
<Nubaae> for some reason, it just reads the fglrx setup all the time
<Nubaae> no matter what I change in lts.conf
<ogra> paste your lts.conf to the pastebin
<Nubaae> I've tried making a seperate xf86config= file too... and then I thought... maybe thats whats conflicting it?
<ogra> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Nubaae> well, its not that long, just 6 or 7 lines
<Nubaae> ill paste it to u in private?
<Nubaae> but if you prefer, I'll use pastebin
<Nubaae> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36306/
<Nubaae> ah, the card in question is a nvidia gforce 440SE, if that helps at all
<ogra> and you are sure its using fglrx ? how did you verify that ?
<Nubaae> first of all, it allowed me to do a alt+f6
<Nubaae> taking me to a shell
<Nubaae> then I checked the output of xorg
<Nubaae> I have screen 6 as shell
<ogra> hmm, you hav especified both, XSERVER and XF86CONFIG_FILE in the mac defined section
<Nubaae> yeah, thats me trying stuff
<Nubaae> I did that after though... with just xserver didnt work
<ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/myxorg2.conf has definately nv in it ?
<Nubaae> yes
<ogra> if the MAC address is right that should be used then ...
<ogra> are you sure its right ?
<Nubaae> yeah maca ddress verified and reverified
<Nubaae> u know whats weird... it worked once
<ogra> which release is that ?
<Nubaae> well, almost
<Nubaae> feisty
<ogra> can you comment *all* XSERVER and XF86CONFIG_FILE entries in the lts.conf ? and check what happens then
<Nubaae> oh... its using a 3com card with pxe 2.2
<ogra> (it should default to either vesa or nv)
<Nubaae> all default and mac address?
<ogra> yep
<Nubaae> ok
<ogra> let the autodetection do its work and see what you get for it
<ari_stress> ogra :)
<ari_stress> i found the culprit
<ari_stress> oh mannn!
<ogra> what was it ?
<ari_stress> because of copy paste of the confs from the previous server into the new server using a USBDISK
<ari_stress> the permission of /etc/nsswitch is 700
<ari_stress> whereas it should be 644
<ari_stress> goddamnit
<ogra> oh
<ari_stress> lol
<ogra> well, nobody is perfect :)
<ari_stress> very nice, i've spent 4 hours :D
<ari_stress> but i'm glad at the end
<ari_stress> :D
<ogra> :)
<Nubaae> yeah that works fine
<Nubaae> however, that doesnt resolve my problem, unless I keep the nv computer on all the time
<Nubaae> :-)
<ari_stress> yes222... the clients can logon now :D
<ari_stress> wow.. that was close
<ari_stress> i almost reinstall the server
<ari_stress> well, i gtg now. wife has been waiting :D
<ari_stress> see you around all :)
<ari_stress> great day
<ogra> Nubaae, i suspect the config file you define in the default sectuion prevents the config script from even running on the nvidia system
<ogra> try to use the XF86CONFIG_FILE parameters for both and done set XSERVER ... try if that helps
<ogra> *dont
<Nubaae> ok, I'll try that
<moquist> ogra: didja see my email to -motu about the moodle package?
* Kamping_Kaiser grumbles about people who rub expensive hardware in others faces
<ogra> moquist, is moodle/webserver properly set ?
<moquist> yes; apache is restarting.
<ogra> (and why doi you still have servers="apache apache-ssl apache-perl apache2" ?)
<ogra> that can go
* moquist nods
<ogra> invoke-rc.d ${webserver} restart || true
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> poor mans "i don't care"
<moquist> I wonder if that was already moot code, given that restart was set to $webserver. I'm not sure wwwconfig was looking @ $servers.
<moquist> Yeah, that would be better.
<ogra> and you should probably be more graceful and either use only reload or ask the user if you are allowed to restart the httpd
<ogra> just tearing it down is a bit mean
<moquist> are we sure that apache, apache-ssl, apache-perl, and apache2 all support 'reload'?
* moquist isn't
* ogra once maintained a ISP webserver server with 2000 domains on it (a dual PII233)
<moquist> but yeah, you're right
<ogra> guess how long a server restart took there :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure i could run 2k domains on my dual 233 :|
<moquist> 30 min?
<ogra> i would have killed you back then (and even more my boss would have ;))
<ogra> yeah, about that
<ogra> it also ran the DNS and mailserver for them
<moquist> Well, you shouldn't ever have used this package on such a server, or at least without testing carefully first. :)
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> if its in main i assume it doesnt do evil things
<moquist> Well, yeah. It should be a responsible package.
<moquist> Of course.
* ogra trusts his distributor aboput that
<ogra> use reload for now
<ogra> questions and the like can come later
<moquist> I'm checking them all for reload.
<moquist> I've made the same change in postinst.
<moquist> Also, FWIW, apache2 was restarting successfully, so || true shouldn't change anything.
<moquist> (in the scenario we've been running into)
<ogra> well, || true will make it ignore any return value
<moquist> It's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that it doesn't solve our immediate problem.
<ogra> so errors wont be blobking
<ogra> *blobking
<ogra> GRRR
<moquist> Yep. No disagreement here.
<ogra> *blocking
* moquist likes "blobking"
<ogra> heh
<moquist> Yeah, I distinctly remember thinking "happily" while I typed that -motu email last night, and when I read it 5 min. ago I noticed that it says "happing". Stupid fingers.
<Nubaae> so, I've tried using just the XF86CONFIG= in the lts.conf file
<Nubaae> and same thing happens...
<Nubaae> tries to load the fglrx setup
<Nubaae> I guess a solution for now will be to put an ati card in that system... but should I try and take out the XF86CONFIG altogether to see if that works?
<Nubaae> no luck
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra> are you sure its the file you have defined that is used ?
<netzer0> hi... anyone here?
<Nubaae> yes... checked it over and over
<Nubaae> checked it on another ltsp server, where there is no lts.conf file and there it works fine
<Nubaae> seems to me, that this is all happening because the fglrx driver has been compiled into chroot kernel, could that be?
<ogra> lol
<ogra> yes
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> that cant work, you should mention such stuff in the beginning
<ogra> use the default kernel package and the fglrx module from ubuntu
<Nubaae> ok, can u run me through that...
<ogra> you managed to compile your own kernel and replace the shipped one, but dont know how to revert what you did ?
<Nubaae> hehe, well I followed the steps you gave me...
<Nubaae> I can probably figure it out, but just to be sure, I thought I'd ask u
<ogra> i gave you ?
* ogra surely never gave someone instructions to compile a kernel
<Nubaae> it may be that its not compiled into the kernel.... I just thought it might be... you gave me 2 steps to follow
<Nubaae> to install the fglrx driver
<Nubaae> I thought one of them was to install a fglrx kernel
<ogra> ah, k
<Nubaae> but I might be wrong
<Nubaae> I've tried putting a ati 3D rage card in the computer giving problems, but seems that doesnt wanna run the fglrx driver
<ogra> likely unsupported
<ogra> would work with the ati driver i guess
<Nubaae> yeah thats what I'm seeing... for fglrx needs to be a newer ati card I guess
<bddebian> Heya
<Nubaae> if I do a lsmod, I dont see the fglrx driver
<ogra> in the running client ?
<Nubaae> in alt+f6 (screen 6 = shell)
<t94xr> does http://t94xr.ath.cx/ work ?
<Nubaae> however I can modprobe it, does this mean its taking the driver from the kernel?
<t94xr> arthg sorry wrong channel
<ogra> yes
<ogra> if you used the fglrx package all is fine
<Nubaae> well, I think i did apt-get install xserver-xorg-fglrx and fglrx-driver
<Nubaae> or something like that, I cant remember exactly, but I dont think it was getting a new kernel
<ogra> sbalneav, removing -desktop wont remove any other package
<ogra> his prob is that half of gnome is compiled against gecko
<ogra> which makes the packages depend on firefox
<sbalneav> ah,
<sbalneav> I thought it was because firefox is a requirement for ubuntu-desktop
<sbalneav> so, removing firefox removes -desktop, which hoses other stuff.
<sbalneav> well, either way, he shouldn't :)
<ogra> well, either way we should rather use xulrunner for these apps :)
<ogra> but the mozilla trademake policy clashes with xulrunner
<sbalneav> I've heard of xulrunner, but I have no idear what it is?
<ogra> else i'd ship epiphany instead of FF since n releases already
<ogra> its the gecko parts separated from firefox
<ogra> (they could just call it libgecko :P )
<sbalneav> Epiphany would be better in some ways, as it integrates with pessulus
<ogra> and has no extra tanslations
<ogra> *trans
<ogra> which is the most tempting fact for me :)
<sbalneav> So, why don't we switch to it? Policy?
<ogra> (ephi has them in the gnome packagew anyway)
<ogra> trademark
<sbalneav> Epiphany has trademark issues?
<ogra> we would need to use iceweazle
<ogra> no
<ogra> mozilla has
<ogra> being able to use firefox in ubuntru brings some restrictions with it
<sbalneav> Sorry, I'm not understanding.  I though if we used epiphany INSTEAD of firefox/iceweasel, there woudln't be a problem.
<ogra> 6then we would need xulrunner
<ogra> which breaks the FF policy
<ogra> its about xulrunner, not ephi
<ogra> ephi is only a gnome frontend to gecko ... it needs gecko (currently through being linlked against FF)
<ogra> to make it work standalone it would need to link against xulrunner
<ogra> but we cant use xulrunner because thjat breaks the FF trademark
<RichEd> anectodal comment: why open office ?
<RichEd> classroom.ppt 1 slide 1.2MB
<RichEd> silly file format
* ogra doesnt use OO.o ... only if i get stuff sent in that format
* RichEd is off to a function at the wife's work ... see y'all tomorrow
<Nubaae> I am trying to mount /home/$user over nfs for some non ltsp clients... is the correct procedure, to put in /home/$user in exports and then mount through fstab from the client side?
<didge> hi.  i'm attempting to install edubuntu.  the installation package is freezing after it has installed the package brltty-x11.  what can i do ?
<didge> this is the third time.
<didge> i have verified cd integrity
<LaserJock> what version of Edubuntu?
<didge> 7.04
<didge> can i rescue the installation ? can i skip this particular package ?
<didge> i can access a console
<LaserJock> do you have a network connection while installing?
<didge> no
<didge> do i need a network connection while installing ?
<LaserJock> didge: well, you shouldn't but sometimes it seems to have issues
<LaserJock> didge: I know quite a few people though that installed 7.04 ok without a net connection
<didge> ok
<didge> i read that brltty-x11 looks on the web for some files during the installation procedure.
<didge> during this installation, i aborted dhcp configuration during the install and chose "do not configure my network at this time" then continued.  i will report the results.
<moquist> LaserJock: I just now ran 'strace apt-get remove moodle' and the 'apt-get remove' process on line 1 of http://n01se.net/paste/Ke4?pretty=yes is looping, waiting on the dpkg process on line 2.
<LaserJock> oh, wait a sec
<LaserJock> moquist: can you paste the postrm for me?
<LaserJock> moquist: nvm, got it
<LaserJock> moquist: so the dpkg process is not returning/exiting?
<moquist> LaserJock: correct
<LaserJock> ok...
<LaserJock> so now why the heck would that be
* moquist doesn't know
<LaserJock> ok, so we know that it restars the webserver
<moquist> LaserJock: and if I put 'echo foobar' just before 'exit 0' at the end of postrm, it prints
<moquist> (after the webserver restart)
<LaserJock> on which part?
<didge> hi
<didge> it works now
<didge> you have to specifically disable the network configuration
<moquist> LaserJock: which part of what?
<moquist> LaserJock: I'll post an example
<LaserJock> moquist: which case?
<LaserJock> moquist: see #ubuntu-motu
<sbalneav> Well, I've re-implemented jetpipe in C.  It's a 5k executable.
<LaserJock> coolio
<sbalneav> It's too late to get in for this time, but what I'd like to see (ogra and I have talked about it before) is get some udev rules in place for usb printers.
<sbalneav> If you plug in a usb printer, you've got a printserver.
<sbalneav> We'll get it in the books for Hairy.
<sbalneav> moquist: You around?
<moquist> sbalneav: yo ho
<sbalneav> Can you /msg me, I'm just testing switching to gaim from xchat
<didge> hi.
<didge> i'm having trouble booting my diskless client.
<didge> i already have a diskless network on 192.168.1.X
<didge> i am attempting to use edubuntu as a second diskless network on 192.168.2.x
<didge> on the client, i get the "edubuntu splash screen", then it starts talking to my primary server (which is centos)
<lns> didge, are the two networks physically tied together, or do you have 2 NICs in your edubuntu server?
<lns> I have a feeling your edubuntu network is talking to the same DHCP server that your CentOS network is tied to
<lns> so the DHCP options might be conflicting with the 2 networks
#edubuntu 2007-09-05
<sbalneav> Evening all
<carlosweb> hola hay alguien hay ?.....
<sbalneav> moquist: You about?
<moquist> above along after amid among around
<sbalneav> hey, /msg me
<moquist> Yep. Just got excited about prepositions there for a sec.
<sbalneav> I'm testing my irc proxy
<sbalneav> let me know when you do it. :)
<moquist> msged
<TexasTwister> sbalneav, you assisted me last Friday with a problem nic that was not recognized on a new Dell system.  Found a resolution...
<TexasTwister> Needed to install a package: linux-backports-modules_2.6.20-16
<TexasTwister> Thanks for the help -- just wanted to follow up.
<TexasTwister> Anyone here with experience configuring an LTSP server in Edubuntu?
<sbalneav> I've had a bit of experience :)
<sbalneav> TexasTwister: What do you need help with?
<TexasTwister> I'm trying to configure this at home, before taking it to the school.  I have the two NICs, one ... hang on... might have found my own problem...
<TexasTwister> Yep... think I've got it now.... Of all the dumb stuff to overlook!  At the school I was going to leave the LTSP network on the 192.168.0 network and use 192.168.1 for my external-facing network.  But I had forgotten that my home router is handing out 192.168.0 addresses -- so it was addressing conflicts.
<TexasTwister> When I am running an LTSP session as student1 (a non-privileged user) and trying to use the Thin Client manager on the server to monitor student1, I get the message "Unavailable: Install X11vnc on the client".  So...
<sbalneav> Check on the wiki for x11vnc
<sbalneav> it needs some poking to get it to work.
<TexasTwister> As student1, I used "su - scott" (scott is an admin user) and then "sudo apt-get install X11vnc" and got it installed.  Then I started it.  But refreshing the screen still shows unavailable.  Okay... will do...
<sbalneav> You'll have to install it in the chroot.
<TexasTwister> I tried to follow these instructions: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients?highlight=%28x11vnc%29#Quick ... but not only did the vnc not work, something about it allows the server's hd partitions to show up on the desktop of the LTSP session -- NOT good! :-)
* TexasTwister continues to poke around in the wiki...
<boyam> TexasTwister, check out the forums...folks have gotten it to work in this thread...http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=406220&highlight=edubuntu
<boyam> mof i got mine working with this thread...adding the -shared to rc.local seems to have gotten me over my hump...
<TexasTwister> thanks all... no joy yet, I'll come back to it later...
<marine_> encompass
<encompass> marine_: hi there
<marine_> encompass
<marine_> I forgot the name of your channel
<marine_> shriphani
<shriphani> ogra: ?
<ogra> shriphani, ?
<shriphani> i asked the local loco team about going around trying to promote edubuntu in schools.. I haven't had any response as such.
<shriphani> could you suggest what i do next ?
<shriphani> the team seems to be extremely inactive...
<ogra> make more noise ?
<shriphani> hmm.
<ogra> without a community or any feedback its hard to build something
<ogra> so that should be your first focus
<shriphani> hmm.
<shriphani> i'll try to.
<shriphani> ogra: or would it be ok if i do a presentation on edubuntu at a major school here ?
<ogra> sure
<shriphani> hmm I would need at least one brochure for that..
<shriphani> ogra: where do i get these ?
<ogra> shriphani, not sure we have something yet, RichEd ?
<shriphani> hmm.
<shriphani> and schools do need to see some apparent benefit out of this.
<RichEd> hi shriphani & ogra
<ogra> i know there was some initiative going on, but RichEd is the better to answer here
<shriphani> hello RichEd
<RichEd> we have the schools advocacy pages ... and the brochure that pete used for bettsa ... let me have a quick look for the links and the pdf
<shriphani> i am ashamed at the lack of activity in the loco team.
<RichEd> shriphani: things go in waves ... no need to feel like that ... rather just add some of your own energy
<shriphani> i am a member of a lug. I dunno if they will even bother working towards this.
<RichEd> shriphani: give me your email address in the msg window
<RichEd> thanks ... i'll send a brochure we can start with
<RichEd> looking for the advocacy link as well
<shriphani> ok.
<RichEd> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/welcome.html
<RichEd> take a look at that link and the brochure i will send
<RichEd> ogra: shriphani is in india, as a student, and is keen to help with *buntu in education ... he is a Kubuntu user
<RichEd> i have suggested to him that it would be useful if he could find out what is used for teaching Computer Science in schools, and get a desktop set up with all of the equivalent tools on ubuntu
<RichEd> (just a f.y.i.)
<ogra> forward that to nixternal or Riddell for the edubuntu-kde package :)
<shriphani> RichEd: open-office tells me that the file's corrupted.
<RichEd> shriphani: let me resave and resend
<shriphani> ok.
* shriphani needs a quicker word-processor.
<shriphani> abiword or lyx ?
<shriphani> let me try kword
<shriphani> RichEd: it looks nice. Mind if I make some additions to it and also a few slides based on it ?
<RichEd> not at all ...
<RichEd> i will also send you one of my presentations
<shriphani> ok.
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting === in #ubuntu-meeting === now
<RichEd> hi pips1
<ogra> eeks
* ogra totally forgot ... having his hands up to the ellbows in debian-installer code
<pips1> hi
<RichEd> ogra ... we'll keep it short ... I know you are busy and I have another appointment in an hour
<Kamping_Kaiser> that was a short meeting
<ogra> yeah :)
<juliux> too short for me
<RichEd> juliux: was there stuff you needed to chat about ?
<juliux> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer the first grafik looks great
<juliux> RichEd, not realy
<juliux> RichEd, i am at work so i have only time if the phone doesn't ring;)
<RichEd> how is the work going ?
<juliux> good
<juliux> it is an interesting job
<RichEd> glad to hear that\
<juliux> but i haven't much time for edubuntu and ubunut
<jsgotangco> hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<juliux> RichEd, 21. october, it is a sunday, we will have education day at the german ubucon, so if you know some people in german, belgium or the netherlands you can invite them
<RichEd> great ... i was wondering when it was happening
* shriphani looks at the post in the loco team forums...
<juliux> RichEd, we will have the whole day education talks in one romm
<juliux> room
<shriphani> 22hours.... the same reply from a hungarian who has no idea where he is posting what.
<juliux> RichEd, there will be talks about edubuntu, linux4afrika, cheap school network, seminarix, ubuntu userful,
<RichEd> nice :)
<shriphani> juliux: where ?
<shriphani> same room ?
<juliux> shriphani, in krefeld/germany
<juliux> shriphani, not at the same time;)
<shriphani> oh...
<juliux> every topic is one hour
<shriphani> its a one-man army here.
<bddebian> Heya
<shriphani> mind if i make an edubuntu website...... an edubuntu schools axis or something like that.
<obiyoda> I have a lab set up and the students can't log on the thin clients. They can log on the server but not the thin clients.
<obiyoda> what could cause this?
<Kamping_Kaiser> do you have sabayon installed?
<Kamping_Kaiser> can anyone log in?
<obiyoda> sabayon?
<obiyoda> I don't think so since it doesn't sound familure
<Kamping_Kaiser> its an admin tool
<obiyoda> Its not installed
<ogra> obiyoda, tried to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server ?
<obiyoda> okay I did that. Now my problem is that I am not at the school right now. Is there a way to check through ssh if that worked?
<RichEd> ogra you here ?
<RichEd> you just timed out from canonical
<Nuba1> hi... Some of the terminals in my computer network are giving out sessions to the ltsp clients. I imagine this is because the server cd was installed to the harddisk of these computers... what can I do to disable these computers from giving out sessions to my ltsp terminals... I've disabled and uninstalled dhcp3, but something else is giving out the sessions after the dhcp server gives them their details
<Nuba1> that is to say, this is apart from the regular ltsp server which should be the only one giving out sessions
<ogra> well, that should also be your only dhcp server
<Nuba1> it is
<ogra> the dhcp server tells the clients where to boot from
<Nuba1> well, why is it booting from the dhcp server and then giving a session on a different computer altogether
<ogra> and if you only have one running it will only point to your ltsp server
<ogra> so i assume you have another dhcp server running somewhere
<ogra> ldm is hardcoded to user the bootserver as connection server ...
<Nuba1> well, I've check and disabled all other dhcp servers... it looks like it is starting up from the central dhcp server... I mean, I cant have 2 dhcps servers with the same address can I?
<ogra> so i see no way that it could connect to something different than the dhcp server it recieved the data from
<ogra> not if they are not configured identically
<ogra> and even then you might get half the answer on the srequest from one and the rest from another dhcpd
<ogra> just dont run more than one ...
<Nuba1> ok, there is one dhcp server on a different network altogether...
<Nuba1> but thats just a router
<ogra> beyond that i'd disable netbooting in the BIOS of the machines you dont want to be thin clients
<Nuba1> well, I'll have another look around
<Nuba1> yeah, in the mba I have an option for local or network booting
<Nuba1> I've set all the cards to local
<Nuba1> thats correct right?
<ogra> yes
<Nuba1> right, I'll have another look around... so it must be a dhcp server
<ogra> if you have set them to local, there is no physical way for them to netboot ...
<Nuba1> well, its doing it... I know this because the computer in question will not load on my regular ltsp network due to the fglrx problem
<ogra> well, it cant :)
<ogra> physically
<ogra> ...
<ogra> unless you have two NICs in there and disabled the wrong one
<Nuba1> nope
<ogra> are you sure you saved the BIOS changes ?
<Nuba1> maybe the card is not working then, I dont know... but it is definetly loading a different computer than the regular dhcp server
<ogra> well, it cant netboot if you disabled netbooting in the BIOS
<Nuba1> wait, this is the network card bios
<Nuba1> not the regular bios
<ogra> there is no technical way to work around that
<Nuba1> in the 3com cards there is an option to hit alt+cntrl+b
<ogra> for a boot menu
<ogra> well, look in the regula BIOS
<Nuba1> u select there whether u want local net boot, or network net boot
<ogra> *regular
<ogra> there should be something about the boot order etc
<Nuba1> yeah, thats all fine... this computer is a ltsp thin terminal... it should boot from the regular dhcp server
<ogra> well, i'm talkin g about the ones that shouldnt
<ogra> indeed
<Nuba1> what is happening is its getting details from another computer, but starting up with the regular dhcp server (at least according to the network settings)
<Nuba1> my question is, in the pxe boot menu
<Nuba1> what should it be set to, local or network
<ogra> local
<Nuba1> sorry, remote
<ogra> unless you want them netbooting
<Nuba1> this is the pxe menu, not bios...
<Nuba1> gives me option for remote booting or local, but all via pxe
<ogra> right
<ogra> look in the BIOS
<ogra> there should be an option as well
<Nuba1> so ignore the pxe then?
<ogra> no
<Nuba1> yeah, the bios is set to MBA (being the pxe boot menu)
<ogra> disable it in both
<ogra> right
<ogra> switch away from that
<Nuba1> but I want this computer to be a ltsp computer
<ogra> *sigh*
<ogra> switch away from that *on the computers that netboot while they shouldnt*
* Nuba1 thinks we are going in circles....
<ogra> i'm not talking about *that computer* i'm talking about the computers you complained about
<Nuba1> ahhhh... k
<Nuba1> gotcha... sorry...
<ogra> and make sure to really run only one single dhcpd
<ogra> (on one phsical network)
<Nuba1> well, at least it really works out of the box, cause i didnt touch the other computers settings :-)
<ogra> heh
<Nuba1> anyway.. and a recomendation... should I use Fedora Active Directory or open ldap?
<Nuba1> to manage sso?
<Nuba1> singe sign on
<Nuba1> single
<ogra> ldap i guess
<Nuba1> k, I read that will be built into edubuntu in the future, which sounds great
<ogra> yeah, but not before gutsy+1
<ogra> we're waiting for the implementation from the ubuntu server team
<Nuba1> for their AD implementation?
<Nuba1> well, anyway, thanks... I'll let u get back to work :-)
<ogra> for their network auth implementation
<ogra> i dont think it will have to do anything with AD
<Nuba1> ok replacing nis then
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> its in their hands, i'll integrate what i get
<sbalneav> ogra: Anywhere where we can follow what they're up to? :)
<ogra> sbalneav, no idea, dendrobates is the server team lead, he might know
<pygi> hellooooooooo! :)
<ogra> (he's very intrested in edubuntu as reference platform for some of his stuff)
<pygi> Hey ogra :)
<ogra> hi pygi
<pygi> how are you doing?
<ogra> fine ... busy
<ogra> working on tribe6 bugs
<pygi> oh, oki
* pygi is also busy
<pygi> ogra, am working on some education-related project lately =)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> me to :)
<pygi> ogra, you work on edubuntu :P
<pygi> I know that =)
<ogra> *g*
* pygi posted to m-l about it
<moquist> ogra: moodle status: I have a couple things in mind to try to figure out why dpkg isn't terminating when 'apt-get remove moodle' is run. I plan to work on it tonight.
<ogra> monteslu, thanks :)
<pygi> moquist, why use moodle when you can use acoodem? :D
* pygi hides
<ogra> pygi, how many users does acoodem have ? in how many langs is it translated and in how many langs are the docs translated ?
<pygi> ogra, 1, none, no docs =)
<ogra> heh
<pygi> it was a joke anyway :p
<pygi> it isn't even functional =)
<lns> does anyone forsee any problems using alien to convert redhat-config-users to ubuntu/gnome?
<lns> i really like that gui compared to the default ubuntu/gnome one
<ogra> well
<ogra> i wouldnt use alienated packaged in a production system ...
<lns> i was going to test it first
<ogra> especially not if it can trash your user credentials
<lns> true.. i was just figuring that something as low-level and universal such as 'useradd' and /etc/passwd, it would seem like a fairly trivial task
<ogra> (imagine after 3 months a strange bug shows up because alien was missing anything and wipes out /etc/password)
<lns> bah...always looking at the possibilities, ogra ;)
<ogra> but if you want to take that risk, go ahead :)
<lns> i'd love to see it ported to tell you the truth...i just wish i had the programming skills to do it
<lns> i'd love to pay someone to do it
<ogra> LP once had a function for bounties :)
<ogra> not sure if thats still there
<ogra> but you could bounty it :)
<lns> hmm!
<lns> i'll look for that right now
<lns> :( "We're going to remove the bounty system because it's not officially in use."
<lns> priced at 1000000.0 USD
<lns> lol
<ogra> ouch :)
<lns> i'd put something up at hireafreelancer.com or whatever that is, but i really doubt anyone would respond
<lns> i wonder why the bounty system went away
<ogra> well, there were not really any valid bounties ...
<ogra> like "i'll pay you $20 for blah" ...
<lns> i just need my own henchman
<lns> ;)
<monteslu> ogra, no problem ?
<ogra> monteslu, ?
<ogra> you mean that bounty ?
<monteslu> <ogra>monteslu, thanks :)
<ogra> ah, right
<monteslu> you probably meant moquist
<ogra> yeah
* ogra hugs his great tab completion AI system in xchat :)
<ogra> igniting new conversations all the time, isnt that great ?
<monteslu> yeah, its just like bash without the burden of being right
<ogra> hehe
* moquist starts tracing back over the conversation
<ogra> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi ogra
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~/seeds/edubuntu.gutsy$ bzr commit -m'add edubuntu-addon-meta to ship-addon'
<ogra> modified ship-addon
<ogra> Committed revision 636.
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I'm going to try to add some .desktops so that you can install the metapackages from the g-a-i window
<Nuba1> I am on a non internet qualified ip/domain and keep getting invalid DN for LDAP, kerberos, squid, etc
<Nuba1> I've set hostname and looked at /etc/hosts
<Nuba1> resolv.conf too... everything seems fine... if I do a hostname -f it comes back correctly
<Nuba1> but I still get that damn message
* ogra calls it a day
<LaserJock> darn, already?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to get started
<ogra> well, i had my 10h today
<Nuba1> sun is setting here...
<ogra> and solved the debconf stuff
<ogra> 20:15 here
<ogra> i'll package it tomorrow ...
<ogra> night all
<LaserJock> cya ogra
<shriphani> is there something like a ubuntu jacket ?
<shriphani> rather than a t-shirt ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I've not see one
<LaserJock> that might be cool
<shriphani> cuz on my school converting trip, I would like a jacket more than a t-shirt (late arrival of the monsoon here)
<lns> RichEd, whenever you have the chance, I whipped up a blog touting Linux, LTSP, and open source. It has a link at the bottom for Ubuntu. Hopefully this will fill the prereq for becoming a Canonical marketplace partner.
<lns> RichEd, http://blogs.logicalnetworking.net
#edubuntu 2007-09-06
<jkb973> just finished install of Edubuntu 7.04 -- no education apps!
<jkb973> they were there OK when running live CD, but didn't install
<jkb973> any suggestions?
<sbalneav> jkb973: You need the server addon cd
<jkb973> wow. even tho it's on the live CD? I'm not running LTS or anything...
<sbalneav> There wasn't enough room for all the langpacks.  The live cd only has a few langpacks.  The install has them all.
<sbalneav> So, the education apps got moved off to the addon cd.
<jkb973> sorry for being thick about this, but when I booted the live CD I was able to run the Edu apps. But they weren't there after I did a real install to HD. That's expected?
<sbalneav> yes
<jkb973> ok, thanks. I thought I was losing it. I'll DL the addon CD. Is it self-explanatory to install from the addon CD?
<sbalneav> Really, we'd like to go with a dvd install, so we can get the live pkgs and install on there as well, but a lot of the countries that use edubuntu don't have widespread penetration of dvd drives.
<sbalneav> Yep, just insert it into the drive, and it auto-starts the installer.
<sbalneav> easy-peasy.
<jkb973> sweet. thanks!
<jkb973> anybody have recommendations for good educational software above and beyond what's included in the Edubuntu distro for grades K-8?
<boyam> hmmm funny you should ask that.  edubuntu already includes most of the best open source sfwr for ed purposes
<boyam> not saying that theres not more out there....but that edubuntu already offers so much...
<dean_za_> hi , i have posted to the mailing list , but i was hoping someone might have some ideas ,
<dean_za_> I have no idea what could have changed , I have had a running server for
<dean_za_> 3 weeks , ubuntu fiesty with ltsp 5 . I experimented with xterminator
<dean_za_> yesterday but had problems with vmware server crashing so I uninstalled
<dean_za_> it. I cannot login to my thin clients anymore. I have rebuilt my
<dean_za_> ltsp-client chroot and still nothing. I know my user profiles are ok as
<dean_za_> I can login via nxclient and get my desktop.
<dean_za_> I had previously been using the modified ldm , but now I am back to the
<dean_za_> standard one.
<dean_za_> Yesterday about three times my session just crashed thats why i went
<dean_za_> back and uninstalled xterminator
<dean_za_> i have also rebooted using the original kernel-2.6.20-15 , i have run
<dean_za_> ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-update-sshkeys since rebuilding the
<dean_za_> ltsp-client.
<dean_za_> Does anyone have any ideas , my office has come to a standstill.
<dean_za_> I get the login screen , then i enter username /password and I get the
<dean_za_> spinning circle then back to the login screen
<RichEd> hi dean_za_
<RichEd> try your question in #ltsp ?
<RichEd> or else ogra should be up and around soon
<dean_za_> Thanks RichEd
<gordon> anybody knows how to set a max size for home folder for client on edu?
<juliux> gordon, you can use quota
<gordon> ok, now just have to find out how to do that lol
<juliux> there is a package called quota
<gordon> o, ok, thx
<shriphani> is there an edubuntu bible ?
<RichEd> shriphani: it's called the edubuntu handbook / cookbook
<RichEd> let me get the link for you
<RichEd> ( hi by the way :)
<shriphani> hello.
<shriphani> brb...
<RichEd> shriphani: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook
<ogra> dean_za_, that could be bug 105709
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105709
<ogra> oh, he's gone
<RichEd> pity ... he sounded a bit stressed ... but edubuntugirl can keep an eye out for him
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: tell dean_za that could be bug 105709
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105709
<edubuntugirl> Righto, RichEd!
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: tell dean_za_ that could be bug 105709
<edubuntugirl> Righto, RichEd!
<RichEd> hi ollie :)
<ogra> hey
<ogra> *sigh*
* ogra waits for evo to finish filtering 1784 mail
<ogra> s
<stgraber> filtering server-side rocks for that :)
<ogra> stgraber, i do both
<JenZbe> hi all, anyone awake?
<ogra> zzzzZZZZZZ
<ogra> :)
<JenZbe> lolz
<JenZbe> can i ask you a question or 2 ?
<ogra> just ask :) dont ask to ask
<JenZbe> if u talk dutch i can copy paste from #ubuntu-nl where i made the question allready :)
<ogra> sorry, german, english and a bit of french
<JenZbe> ah ok, english it will be
<JenZbe> ich spreche nicht gut deutch
<ogra> even though i sometimes understand some of the dutch i hear :)
<JenZbe> i work in a school
<JenZbe> got 2 domains (win2003)
<JenZbe> one for administration
<JenZbe> one for teachers and students
<JenZbe> now the teachers and students dont really require a personal profile
<JenZbe> they need to surf and type
<JenZbe> thats all
<JenZbe> so i wanna convert to (edu)ubuntu clients
<JenZbe> 3 accounts
<JenZbe> administrator (me), 'teacher' and 'student'
<JenZbe> that means 1 account for all pupils
<ogra> that wont work
<JenZbe> why not?
<ogra> at least not if you want them logged in simultaneously with the same account
<JenZbe> i dont need central management
<JenZbe> they dont need to log on to a server
<ogra> thge apps write settings in the same file all the time ...
<JenZbe> i want to get rid of (win2k3)server
<ogra> you could try a kiosk setup or so ... but that would give you only one account (which looses all settings on logout)
<JenZbe> the only thing the student needs is a 'personal' folder on a 'students'-folder which will be pwd-protected
<JenZbe> but that is my idea
<JenZbe> real 'local' machines
<JenZbe> exact copies of eachother (no server stuff based)
<JenZbe> they only need openoffice and firefox
<JenZbe> and a pwd-protected file on the server where they can put files
<JenZbe> i wanna get rid of the big win-profiles
<ogra> yeah i understand
<ogra> but that will need a decent manual setup ...
<JenZbe> but that wont be a problem i guess
<JenZbe> i make 1 copy of a decent system and then ... ghost it? :)
<ogra> no
<ogra> you take an ltsp setup and turn it into a real desktop ... and make your clients netboot
<ogra> add your three accounts there :)
<JenZbe> hmm
<JenZbe> so you propose a server-client system
<ogra> something like that, yes
<ogra> that way you have the accounts temporary per machine ... if you would have three real aacounts centralized you will always have the clashing
<ogra> firefox and openoffice are no friends of concurring access to tehir cache and settings
<JenZbe> ppl i'm off to dinner -> thnx for the info (copy paste and i'll read it later again) TNX all
<shriphani> hp's online sale system is so crap.
<shriphani> at the end of the selection and other crap I am asked to register..
<DigeratiX> does edubuntu come with any porn filtering software?
<DigeratiX> or should I just installed dans gaurdian
<ogra> use dans guardian (or willow-ng)
<ogra> we cant ship dansguarian, it has a nonferee license
<DigeratiX> ohh
<ogra> there is smoothwall on the server addon CD, but thats better to run on a separate machine (its a full standalone firewall with filtering etc)
<ogra> dansguardian is fine if you want to use it, we're just not allowed to have it on the CD
<shriphani> ogra: not allowed to have a pr0n filter on an educational distro ?
<DigeratiX> gotta have a free licenese
<ogra> shriphani, ask the dansguardian author about his licensing :)
<ogra> its free but not distributable
<shriphani> btw what is svg? is it a different image format ?
<ogra> its his choice ... he's free to license it as he likes
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, not destributable?
<ogra> svg is a vector drawing format
<DigeratiX> special vector graphic
<DigeratiX> something like that
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> DigeratiX, scalable
<DigeratiX> yes!
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, hadnt noticed that.... thats a .... pain
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, its free, but you caqnt put it on CDs with the license restrictions it has
<Kamping_Kaiser> crazy
<ogra> i was hoping willow-ng would become a good replacement at some point, especially because itds pretty much maintenance free
<ogra> but nobody picked up maintenance for it yet
<sbalneav> Morning ogra!
<Amaranth> *cough*
<edubuntugirl> Amaranth: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'BOO!' 26 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 11 seconds ago (on Fri Aug 10 23:08:19 2007)
<ogra> scottie !
<Amaranth> whoa
<sbalneav> What's willow-ng?
<ogra> content webfilter
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, lol, gday mate
<ogra> using bayesian filtering
<Kamping_Kaiser> is it packaged?
<ogra> (so somewhet self learning)
<ogra> yes
<Amaranth> with a crappy tokenizer
<Amaranth> :P
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to look it up
<Kamping_Kaiser> dans sets a pretty high standard, have to say
<ogra> well, its different from dansguardian
<ogra> its rather to be run on a standalone ltsp server :)
<Amaranth> other than endless tweaking of the classifier all it really needs is a better tokenizer and some overall polish
<Kamping_Kaiser> suppose i'll have to look at it when herron starts being worked on
<Amaranth> and it's getting closer and closer to the top of my todo list :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ls
<ogra> Amaranth, come on,  you are busy ... lets just find an adopter :=
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> So, ogra, Tomorrow is FIF \o/.  I'll be setting the alarm for 5:30 tomorrow, and should be online at 0600.  My plan is to stay online till 0000.  18 hours of bugfix :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<ogra> dont get yourself exhausted :)
<ogra> dunno if you noticed, i uploaded a new ltsp tofday
<ogra> merged all your changed
<ogra> *changes
<Amaranth> ogra: just need to get me in the mood to write a good tokenizer and fix the error pages :)
<sbalneav> Yes!  Just saw
<sbalneav> what about ltspfs package?
<ogra> Amaranth, yeah, but its a good starting point for newcomers as well
<Amaranth> Kamping_Kaiser: willowng is really small, mostly thanks to the built-in http server i abuse to do the proxying
<ogra> sbalneav, after i finished g-p-m
<sbalneav> merging your stuff in now.
<Amaranth> err, the built-in http server in python
<ogra> first i need to make seb happy, he wants gnome to be complete today
<Amaranth> gnome is important :)
<shriphani> yes i need the logo... edubuntu's.
<ogra> pfft, its only power management ... who needs that anyway
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, found the project on LP, just having issues with LP1 and finding what i want to know about it ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, does it have a wiki page or something?
<Amaranth> nope
<sbalneav> ogra: man, all that sweat and toil for just a few lines, eh?  Remember when I had the bug with the whacky keyboard?  I spend like 20 hours on that, turned out I just wasn't closing stdin when I forked xorg.  It always amazes me how much effort it sometimes takes for such a small number of lines of code :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> well i'm not interested enough to do a source checkout *grin*
<Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, at least when theres a big problem, its in your face :|
<sbalneav> heh
<ogra> sbalneav, eeek, i just saw i forgot the most essential dit :P
<ogra> *bit
* ogra grumbles about needing to bump the version for that and fixes
<sbalneav> ogra: have we merged in the changes yet about specifying the nfs server ip on the root path line from vagrant's tree yet?
<ogra> since months ... that was fixed in initramfs-tools in the beginning of gutsy
<sbalneav> ok, so now we can do rootpath="1.2.3.4:/foo"
<ogra> initramfs-tools (0.85eubuntu13) gutsy; urgency=low
<ogra>   * fix nfsroot handling if rootserver is specified with IP and colon in
<ogra>     root-path (debian bug #387808)
<ogra>  -- Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:19:49 +0200
<ubotu> Debian bug 387808 in initramfs-tools "initramfs-tools: scripts/nfs doesn't properly handle when server-ip is included in root-path" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/387808
<sbalneav> so jammcq saying on the mailing list that it isn't fixed in ubuntu yet's wrong.
<sbalneav> ok, I'll correct him.
<ogra> not in feisty :)
<sbalneav> right.
<ogra> and its not ne3eded in gutsy ;)
<ogra> nbd != nfs :)
<sbalneav> right, but if someone WANTS to switch to nfs, and have this option, they have it.
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> how do we specify a separate nbd server, just in case the NBD server was going to be different from the ltsp server?  Via a pxe config option?
<ogra> nbdroot or nbdserver in PXE config
<sbalneav> I think I saw that, just a kernel command line.  NBDSERVER or something?
<ogra> not capitalized
<ogra> see client/initramfs/scripts/ltsp-nbd
<ogra> sbalneav, merge my tree again ... thats the actual fix for all the udeb troubles :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, last commit a year ago? on willow-ng.. is that correct?
<Amaranth> :/
<Amaranth> yeah, uh, um
* Amaranth hides
<juliux> ogra, do you knwo where in /proc i can find the ip address of my network devices?
<ogra> juliux, somewhere in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ i'd guess
<juliux> hm ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth, lol... i could almost keep up with that development cycle
<Amaranth> juliux: it's not in /proc/system/net/ipv4/conf/
<Amaranth> so don't waste time in there :)
<juliux> Amaranth, thxs, i used grep -r ;)
<Amaranth> i get stuck somewhere doing that
<Amaranth> where is it then?
<juliux> i am still searching
<Amaranth> it seems to get stuck somewhere
<Amaranth> i don't think your IP address is exposed in /proc
<ogra> IP=$(ip -o -f inet addr show | sed -e 's,.* \(.*\)/.*,\1,' | grep -v '^127')
<ogra> try that one
<ogra> it will return all external IPs though
<shriphani> are there pics of edubuntu deployed at schools ?
<bddebian> Howdy
<shriphani> not screenshots. pics of geeky teachers smiling and etc.
<ogra> sbalneav, nay idea about bug 134865 ? we shoiuld add that to the list for tomorrow ...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134865 in ltsp "x11-common segfaults in ltsp chroot in xen dom0" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134865
<sbalneav> ogra: No, I've got zippo.  I've *never* played with xen <hangs head in shame>
<ogra> xen isnt relevant
<sbalneav> it isnt?
<ogra> we need him to put set -x into the x11-common postinst and make him run dpkg-configure -a or apt-get -f install on the broken chroot
<ogra> so we see whats broken
<sbalneav> This leads to an interesting question, though.  We get a lot of people who want to run edubuntu under xen/vmware/etc.  Are we going to start "officially" supporting that?
<ogra> well, i think we support xen
<sbalneav> Then I guess I'll have to learn it. :) You ever played with it?
<ogra> even thooug ...
<ogra> seems its all in uni/multiverse
<ogra> so we dont really have to care (but we should have it running roughly, many people will use it this way i guess)
<sbalneav> That's what I'm thinking.
<ogra> i'm usually testing VirtualBox clients
<sbalneav> Core duo boxes supoort the widgetry in hardware that makes xen work, right?
<ogra> (at least once before release)
<ogra> no idea, i'm clueless if it comes to xen
<boyam> i can't imagine why someone would setup a production edubuntu/ltsp server in a vm unless it's for testing purposes....seems to me to be a waste of resources...but that's me talking
<ogra> zul maintains it, he would know
<ogra> boyam, if you have an ultra beefy server machine, you might just want to set up several virtual ltsp servers on it for different departments etc ... but oinly have to care for one machine
<ogra> its really rather for the extra huge setups :)
<ogra> but we want to serve these too :)
<boyam> ogra...yea..i see your point...they defintely would have to be beefy boxes though...
<ogra> right, thats rather soemthing for big enterprises
<boyam> sbalneav..grab the live cd for xen...i've tried it pretty easy to setup a vm
<ogra> sbalneav, i simply dont think that bug is xen related, but its missing info to resally say
<shriphani> ogra: can you provide me with a link to all screenshots ?
<ogra> shriphani, osdir usually has them somewhere in their screenshot collection of distros
<shriphani> and yes can i contribute to any k-12 oriented project (part of edubuntu of course)
<shriphani> err ogra you have any idea ?
<ogra> about what ?
<shriphani> [20:41]  <shriphani> and yes can i contribute to any k-12 oriented project (part of edubuntu of course)
<shriphani> that ^
<shriphani> ogra: ?
<sbalneav> shriphani: If you want to contribute to something, by all means, start in :)
<sbalneav> Lots of things need work.
<sbalneav> Squeek needs a new upstream release, docs need to be written, testing needs to be done.
<sbalneav> etc.
<shriphani> umm I think I should make a edubuntu schools website.
<sbalneav> Rather than make a whole new website, why not help to maintain the edubuntu wiki then?
<sbalneav> Otherwise, we've jut got info all over the place.
<shriphani> sure.
<shriphani> but i would also like some development work... apps for k-12, like coordinate geo etc. would be nice.
<sbalneav> So, start in :)
<shriphani> hmm.... with the coordinate geo apps ?
<sbalneav> Sure.
<shriphani> sbalneav: apart from this I would like to point this out. schools here do not care about what com. knowledge they impart. all they care about is whether or not they get some gain out of these activities. what does switching to edubuntu offer in this case ?
<sbalneav> As opposed to what? A Windows solution?
<shriphani> no.. like monetary gains or fame or something like that
<sbalneav> No, but you say "switching to", what are they switching FROM?
<sbalneav> windows?
<shriphani> yes.
<shriphani> do we have a bounty like thing for schools only ?
<shriphani> first 3 schools in a region win so and so.
<sbalneav> No.
<shriphani> hmm.
<sbalneav> Of course not :)
<shriphani> exactly that would be bribing.
<sbalneav> We're giving it away for free, for heavens sake :)
<shriphani> hmm and support's free too...
<sbalneav> As for incentive, cost savings in time, equipment, and maintenance cost.
<shriphani> yeah..
<sbalneav> No restrictive software licenses, etc.
<shriphani> that would be a nice addition to my pros slide, older hardware can run edubuntu smoothly.
<shriphani> sbalneav: where does most k-12 development take place ?
<DigeratiX> i installed edubuntu from the live run cd and do not see any *edu* apps
<DigeratiX> what gives
<ogra> DigeratiX, the feisty CD only installs the workstation version and neeeds the addon CD for edu apps ...
<ogra> that changed in gutsy
<DigeratiX> where is the addon cd
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/feisty/
<ogra> just pop it into your running system ... it will offer you an installer
<DigeratiX> ok
<ogra> in gutsy you actually get the desktop you saw in the live session
<ogra> we switched to the two CD setup for the server in feisty ... that had this bad sideeffect on the liveCD
<sbalneav> shriphani: Well, we mainly package upstream stuff, so most of the apps are written by others.  We use a lot of kdeedu stuff
<shriphani> i see.
<shriphani> so i have to go look at other places to do dev. work ?
<ogra> no
<shriphani> no ?
<ogra> you can also maintain packages and do dev work there :)
<shriphani> i see...
<sbalneav> Certainly there's nothing stopping you from writing something from scratch specifically for Edubuntu.
<ogra> indeed thats mostly working with others work but still enough dev work to do
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> Or, packaging something we don't currently have but could make use of.
<shriphani> i see.
<shriphani> well this looks like a superb journey wee.
<shriphani> btw I am still looking for individuals to assist me in my work. Would you mind putting up a recruit team or something at a place people do bother visiting ?
<sbalneav> Why not start a "consulting" or similar page on the wiki?
<sbalneav> Then you could post a link to it on the -users or -devel mailing list
<shriphani> ok.
<DaSkreech> Do you guys have a release page for the tribe CDs?
<shriphani> sbalneav: where is the wiki ?
<shriphani> sbalneav: ?
<sbalneav> shriphani: www.edubuntu.org
<sbalneav> click on edubuntu wiki
<shriphani_> would it be right if I said edubuntu is ubuntu's sister project and that it is funded by canonical ?
<sbalneav> It's supported by canonical.
<sbalneav> I work on edubuntu, but I'm not paid by canonical, I'm a volunteer.
<IceGuest_5> hi all
<IceGuest_5> I I have a amd64 bit server install
<IceGuest_5> of edubuntu
<IceGuest_5> the thin clients are not doenloading the nbi image file
<IceGuest_5> has anyone installed edubuntu on a 64bit server
<stpaul> hi all
<stpaul> where is the image file locations for ltsp
#edubuntu 2007-09-07
<shriphani> umm ogra?
<moquist> ogra: is it Bad(TM) to run /etc/init.d/something instead of invoke-rc.d?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<_P_P__> hi
<sbalneav> Hello
<drada> I need help configuring my WMP54GS on a fresh install of Edubuntu, please...
<DaSkreech> drada: you can ask in #ubuntu as well the answer will be the same on all versions of *buntu
<drada> thanks
<joebaker> ogra:  sbalneav:  I just did a Jigdo build of edubuntu i386 server install gutsy and it came up to a 715MB image.
<joebaker> That's more that the 700MB limit.  FYI...
<joebaker> I should be able to boot it from QEMU though.
<joebaker> fyi
<sbalneav> heh, well, we'll have some compressing to do, then.
<joebaker> Smile...
<shriphani> sbalneav: ping
<shriphani> ogra: ?
<shriphani> ok... I want my request for assistance to be put up on the wiki as: "Assistance needed for Edubuntu Promotion Programme in India"
<highvolt1ge> this looks kind of cool: http://blog.daniel-baumann.ch/2007/09/07#20070907_debian-live-web-boot
<ogra> lol
<moquist> ogra: would it be bad to run '/etc/init.d/moodle restart' in postrm?
<ogra> a bit, yes
<ogra> whats wrong with update-rc.d ?
<moquist> ogra: I haven't checked yet (I was falling asleep at the kb last night) so I don't know how wwwconfig does it, but using invoke-rc.d instead of wwwconfig is causing our hang-on-removal problem.
<ogra> (update-rc.d maintains a db so the system always knows what the status *should* be, if you circumvent that by running the initscript directly you produce an inconsistency here)
<moquist> It's a weird problem, because postrm itself is completing and exiting, but the parent dpkg process isn't.
<ogra> did you look into wwwconfig ? how it does it ?
<moquist> does update-rc.d actually start/restart services, or does it just manipulate the startup/shutdown lists?
<moquist> ogra: Read above. :)
<moquist> Gotta run to work now; I'll start a source build with /etc/init.d/apache2 restart just for testing purposes.
<ogra> it restarts as well
<moquist> Ah - I didn't know that. Good to know.
<ogra> moquist, just add the  true
<ogra> err
<ogra> || true
<ogra> thats what we do elsewhere
<moquist> Already have it.
<moquist> That's not the problem.
<moquist> postrm is completing successfully and exiting with 0.
<ogra> but apaches init isnt ?
<moquist> seems to be
<ogra> err
<ogra> wait
<moquist> And even if it isn't, we've got || true :)
<ogra> you are running *update-rc.d* ?
<ogra> (literally)
<moquist> Here's what I had: invoke-rc.d ${webserver} reload || true
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> you should wrap that in " if [ -e /etc/init.d/${webserver} ] ; then ...; fi" btw
<moquist> k
<ogra> anyway, go to work, i dont want to hold you up ...
<moquist> :)
<ogra> (i'll be here the whole day)
* moquist nods
<moquist> later
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | * Today is FIX IT FRIDAY !! * come join us fixing bugs !
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<ogra> hey hey
<sbalneav> 6AM, i'm ready to roll!
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra> sbalneav, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/ :(
<ogra> i thought edubuntu-bugs is subscribed to all our packges, seems i was wrong
<sbalneav> Yeah, it's the bugsquad one that's got all the goodies:
<sbalneav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<sbalneav> However, for the first URL, I have fixes for 2 of those bugs!!!!
<sbalneav> Lets squash 'em!!!!
<ogra> which ones ?
<ogra> i just talked about the dhcpd one with mjg59
<ogra> thats slightly tricky
<ogra> but i'll look into it
<sbalneav> bug #48212
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48212 in ltsp "ltsp's dhcpd fails after server is hibernated" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48212
<ogra> yeah, that one
<sbalneav> Really?  That one seems simple
<sbalneav> can't we just add the dhcp3-server onto the end of the restart services tring?
<ogra> no
<sbalneav> I chatted with jo baker, it works a treat
<ogra> /etc/default/acpi-support is a conffile
<sbalneav> no?
<ogra> it will need proper resume.d and suspend.d scripts
<ogra> just changing that file will break upgrades
<ogra> (you get a conffile prompt)
<sbalneav> ok, so if we add a suspend.d (dhcp3 stop) and resume (dhcp3 start) will that fix it?
<ogra> right
<ogra> and it needs to go into the dhcpd package then ...
<sbalneav> ok, lemme have a look where those fuiles should be put
<sbalneav> ok, fair enough, that's simple
<ogra> whicjh in turn will need to deped on the package creating suspend.d and resume.d dirs
<sbalneav> isnt that one part of the main ubuntu metapackage, and always installed?
<ogra> sure, but you cant assume the ubuntu-meta package is there ;)
<sbalneav> k
<ogra> i.e. you could install a commandline system and just add dhcpd to it
<ogra> that would fail if the dirs are missing to put the files in
* ogra writes a CD to see the new udeb in action (or watch it breaking :P )
<sbalneav> probably what, 66-dhcpd-stop.sh?
<sbalneav> in /etc/acpi/suspend.d
<ogra> hmm, not sure
<ogra> (about 66)
<sbalneav> that'd be right after the stop-services one
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> make it 65 as well
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> its a service too :)
<ogra> (i was actually worried that stop-services could kill something dhcpd needs, but thats up to the user anyway)
<sbalneav> I assume I should put these two scripts in the debian dir?
<sbalneav> and install them from there?
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> btw, some minor refactoring in ltsp-update-images, to fix it so that it doesn't crap out violently if you've run it on a dir that's NOT wanting an nbd image.
<sbalneav> in my tree.
<ogra> there is a lot that needs to be fixed in ltsp-update-image
<ogra> i'll go through that over the weekend
<ogra> all the inetd and port handling isnt right as is atm
<ogra> boah
<ogra> bug 70471 is bad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 70471 in denemo "Printing doesn't work if xpdf binary isn't installed - denemo should use evince or depend on xpdf" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70471
<sbalneav> ogra: got a second to help me here?
<ogra> sure
<sbalneav> I'm looking at the dhcp3-server package
<ogra> whats your prob
<sbalneav> I'm wondering what the BEST way to add these files is, the've got some stuff in the rules file that they're just using a cp /debian/blah into the dest, but somehow I suspect that isn't right.
<ogra> right
<sbalneav> really, I want to list them in dhcp3-server.files
<sbalneav> but where to put them so that that phase of dh_whatever finds them?
<ogra> .files
<sbalneav> right, that i've got.
<sbalneav> but WHERE in the directory do I put them?
<sbalneav> the startup and shutdown script
<sbalneav> hmm
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> actually i wouldnt object a cp here
<ogra> given that the package is already doing pretty crazy stuff
<sbalneav> so, stick 'em in debian, and just munge the rules file to do a copy?
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> ok, that I can handle.
<ogra> id put them into debian/acpi-scripts or so
<sbalneav> ok, makes sense.
<ogra> and then just a cp in the install-tsmp target
<sbalneav> i suspect I'll learn more about packaging today :)
<ogra> *stamp
<ogra> gah, denemo is a big bad mess
<shriphani> hello.
<sbalneav> hello
<sbalneav> ogra: Back from snacktime?
<ogra> long ago
<ogra> discusssing bug 123808 with asac :/
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123808 in network-manager "NetworkManager Applet does not recognize ethernet bonding.  " [Undecided,Won't fix]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123808
<shriphani> hello ogra, sbalneav
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<sbalneav> ogra: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36686/
<sbalneav> hello shriphani
<ogra> Closes Bug: 48212
<ogra> must be Closes LP: #48212
<ogra> that will trigger the auto closing ;)
<shriphani> right I made a few slides. Who wants to have a look ?
<sbalneav> ok, want me to change it, or you will?
<ogra> do it :)
<sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36687/
<shriphani> dang.
<sbalneav> shriphani: post a link.
<shriphani> did anyone recieve my last message ?
<shriphani> ok..
<shriphani> or do I put the odp up for download ?
<sbalneav> Well, whatever you prefer.
<shriphani> ok.
<sbalneav> ogra: it builds and installs correctly
<shriphani> where does the dev work take place. i.e. the mailing lists and so on ?
<sbalneav> ubuntu-dev mailing list, and this channel and #ubuntu-dev
<sbalneav> #ubuntu-devel, sory
<sbalneav> the edubuntu-dev mailing list, I should say
<sbalneav> geez, makin' mistakes all over.
<shriphani> sbalneav: http://shriphani.nipl.net
<stpaul> Hi all
<stpaul> I am having issues with thin clients not having a gui login
<stpaul> it will only show the cursor with an x
<ogra> did you fiddle with any settings or is that a default setup ?
<stpaul> default setting
<stpaul> I am using a amd64 ltspserver setup
<stpaul> the onjly thing I change
<stpaul> building the client for a i386
<stpaul> The thin clients used to have a login gui before
<sbalneav> ogra: Thoughts on Bug #38410?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 38410 in sabayon "sabayon blocks ssh based ltsp logins if not user profiles are created" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38410
<sbalneav> Is adding || true on to the end legitimate?
<ogra> well
<ogra> you might miss a lot of error messages, who knows
<ogra> but it would get the thing going finally
<ogra> prob with sabayon is that its largely unmaintained ...
<sbalneav> I'm suspecting I'll have to take it over :)
<ogra> from redhat ?
<sbalneav> So can we patch it that way for now?
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> I'll just barge into their offices, grab it, and walk out.
<sbalneav> They'll all go: "Who was that masked coder"
<stpaul> jajajajaa
<ogra> lol
<sbalneav> ok, I'll produce a debdiff.  We can
<ogra> lets just patch it for now and ignore the fact that we might have broken it ...
<ogra> we'll hopefully get bugreports if we did
<sbalneav> 't keep telling people to use it if it's so badly borken :)
<ogra> even though
<sbalneav> ok, I'll fix
<ogra> what if /usr/sbin/sabayon-apply got fixed instead ?
<sbalneav> OK, I'll have a look
<sbalneav> see if that's more valid.
<ogra> to return 0
<sbalneav> it's python, so I should be able to use my python-fu
<ogra> that wont break the other returning functions ;)
<stpaul> about the thin client gui problem
<stpaul> its not an issue anymore
<stpaul> it just took to long to lad
<ogra> what was it6 ?
<stpaul> load
<ogra> thats feisty ?
<stpaul> yes
<ogra> what kind of clients ?
<stpaul> dell gx1 optiplex
<ogra> heh
<ogra> CPU and RAM specs ?
<stpaul> 64 ram
<stpaul> 333 mhz
<ogra> that should be plenty
<ogra> are they all the same ?
<stpaul> yes
<shriphani> sbalneav: ?
<sbalneav> See, here's the problem:
<stpaul> i have 7 machines
<ogra> to speed them up significantly you can use a static xorg.conf
<stpaul> with the same specs
<sbalneav>             profile_name = userdb.get_database().get_profile (user_name)
<sbalneav>             if not profile_name:
<sbalneav>                 sys.stderr.write (_("No profile for user '%s' found\n") % user_name)
<sbalneav>                 sys.exit (util.EXIT_CODE_FATAL)
<ogra> the X autodetection is one of the heviest slowdowns there (we changed such stuff in gutsy)
<stpaul> oh ok
<ogra> sbalneav, easy
<ogra> s/util.EXIT_CODE_FATAL/0/
<sbalneav> So, I guess the question is, really, what we want is a command line option like --permissive, or --firm, or something, that says, if there ISNT a user profile, return 0 if permissive, 1 if firm
<sbalneav> well, someone may WANT sabayon to not allow logins if there's not a profile :)
<ogra> feel free to make it optional :)
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> lemme hack it a bit.  Default will be permissive, like we want.
<sbalneav> shriphani: I'll get to it when I can.
<sbalneav> it's bugfixing day today, so I'm pretty busy
<stpaul> I see there is a ltsp manager in development
<stpaul> any new that it will be available for gutsy
<ogra> i fear it wont make it
<ogra> unless i find some extra time
<stpaul> oh
<stpaul> how about extra help from other coders?
<ogra> well, its only a gui for lts.conf :)
<ogra> sure
<ogra> feel free to adopt it
<stpaul> thanks
<stpaul> will take a look at tht
<bddebian> Heya
<bambi_bofh> hi
<stpaul> I have updated the ssh keys and the thin clients still cant login
<sbalneav> shriphani: I take it you're a student? Talking to admins?
<shriphani> admins at school ?
<shriphani> i will be.
<shriphani> prolly next week.
<shriphani> trouble is that i am the only one in the entire city doing this.
<shriphani> the Loco team is a <censored> inactive pos.
<sbalneav> You're presentation comes off as a bit confrontational to me.  As well, you've got a factual error.  Edubuntu will be offered as an OPTION on the classmate, it won't be the default.
<shriphani> ooh..
<shriphani> well i'll change that.
<ogra> stpaul, anything in ~/.xsession-errors of the user ?
<shriphani> what bugs are you fixing btw ?
<stpaul> where is thatlog error
<sbalneav> Right now?  Bug #38410
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 38410 in sabayon "sabayon blocks ssh based ltsp logins if not user profiles are created" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38410
<stpaul> i have a copy of that .xsession-errors
<stpaul> where should i paste it
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ogra> sbalneav, Bug #137461 ... last comment :))
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137461 in ltsp "xdmcp does not work due to syntax error in shell script" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137461
<sbalneav> So, his X isn't configuring, looks like
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, i suspect he apt-get just upgraded the chroot
<ogra> err
<ogra> well, i suspect he just apt-get upgraded the chroot
* ogra pokes his jumpy cursor
<sbalneav> Sorry, looks lke the dep was a bad idear.
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> :)
<shriphani> ok where are the bugs.... i might take a shot at them (not too optimistic tho)
<sbalneav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<sbalneav> err shriphani
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<ogra> ah, snap
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<sbalneav> there's a -o ogra mode?
<ogra> well, something with the channel changed ... you can set topics only as op
<ogra> i dont like that
<sbalneav> Man, you ARE powerful
<shriphani> hmm so those are the bugs..... "couldn't install etc...
<sbalneav> ogra: you removing the dep on dhcpd?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> just dont getting your patch to apply the rules file properly
<sbalneav> what the h*ll am I doing wrong?
<sbalneav> It seems no one can ever apply my debdifs cleanly.
<sbalneav> I fix the bug
<sbalneav> debuild -etc
<sbalneav> pbuilder build
<sbalneav> check install
<sbalneav> and then just debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<ogra> well, i take your diff , save it and run patch -p1 --dry-run <../schotts.patchfile in the source dir
<ogra> it rejected the complete rules part
<ogra> for no apparent reason
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/FIF/dhcp3-3.0.5$ patch -p1 --dry-run < ../debdiff.dhcp3
<sbalneav> patching file debian/control
<sbalneav> patching file debian/rules
<sbalneav> patching file debian/changelog
<sbalneav> patching file debian/dhcp3-server.files
<sbalneav> patching file debian/acpi-scripts/65-dhcpd-stop.sh
<sbalneav> patching file debian/acpi-scripts/69-dhcpd-start.sh
<sbalneav> Maybe something the pastebin's doing to it?
<sbalneav> I'm dcc'ing you the file
<ogra> i'm already uploading :)
<ogra> but for a ccheck ...
<sbalneav> you seeing the file request?
<ogra> yes, i accepted it
<sbalneav> hmm
<ogra> i guess its a prob with the pasted text
<sbalneav> it's not transferring
<ogra> try again
<ogra> it prbably timed out, i was on the other client
<sbalneav> Didn't there used to be some module on the firewall box you needed to get this going?
<ogra> copy and paste ?
<ogra> oh, you mean xchat
<ogra> no, that usuallyworks
<sbalneav> k, trying now, one sec
<ogra> got a: Connection refused
<sbalneav> Anything?
<ogra> from your side it seems
<sbalneav> crumb
<sbalneav> something with my firewall
<ogra> Q-Funk sent me loads of docsa for the linuxbiuos stuff recently, so i know it works (or used to)
<sbalneav> crud, I'll just mail 'em to you from now on
<ogra> well, pastebin should work as well, i wonder why it doesnt
<sbalneav> oh, since we got mkelfImage promoted to main, we need to get that added to the chroot, so his client works.
<ogra> wqont it clash with mknbi ?
<ogra> (or are you sure mkelfImage is a proper 1:1 replacement ?)
<sbalneav> Seems to be, from my testing
<ogra> oh, ok
<ogra> so lets drop mknbi :)
<sbalneav> I've tested a couple of nbi clients.  Lets hold off, until I test a few more
<ogra> we have it in main now
<sbalneav> I haven't tested the latest boot floppies from etherboot yet
<ogra> so no need to hurry, its a opne line change in the deps :)
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> still lots of time.
<sbalneav> arrgh, gotta update my pbuilder
<sbalneav> close to sending you a debdiff on the sabayon bug
<ogra> cool
<backpro> hello can i install edubuntu in normal ubuntu ??
<backpro> using apt-get install edubuntu-desktop ??
<sbalneav> That won't create the ltsp stuff, you'll have to do it manuallly, but yes, that will work
<backpro> what is ltsp stuff ??
<backpro> can you explain to me plzz ??
<sbalneav> Thin client, running several diskless machines off one server
<raynerd> hello, any edubuntu developers in here?
<ogra> some, yes
<raynerd> I`m a teacher in the UK, and this summer I joined the world of open source.
<effie_jayx> raynerd,  cheers
<effie_jayx> :D
<raynerd> Only 24 myself, had microsoft forced down my throat for 14 years, and wanted to give the kids an opportunity to use linux
<raynerd> I have installed a dual boot with edubuntu on my work pc, but the IT staff will not allow me to install linux on the kids computers
<effie_jayx> raynerd,  It takes a little getting used to for them
<effie_jayx> be patient
<effie_jayx> install on a computer for them to try and get them familiar with it
<raynerd> I am happy that the students could boot up an edubuntu live CD, I want to mainly use science programs and openoffice.
<raynerd> BUT, there is an INSTALL option that I MUST remove from the live CD before I use it with them. Is there a way to do this?
<effie_jayx> raynerd,  get the it people involved ... so that they become more permissive in the end
<effie_jayx> raynerd,  also try out some of the apps on windows for them to feel confortable and the have them switch back a forth
<raynerd> haha, i`m not even going that way! I`m a young teacher, they dont really know me and are very busy reforming the school management system. I have no chance with that line of attack!
<ogra> raynerd, you can customize the CD (just remove the ubiquity package) there is a howto on the wiki
<raynerd> i`m new to linux myself, can u send a link] 
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<raynerd> hummm, looks hard!
<raynerd> do edubuntu not do a live only CD version?
<ogra> no, thats the desktop installer
<raynerd> :(
<raynerd> buggr
<raynerd> er
<shriphani> raynerd fire up an ancient box which also is capable of serving you as a door-stopper.
<shriphani> then let's see the management's reply.
<shriphani> management or the it staff whoever is the nutter.
<ogra> raynerd, if the machines are network-boot capable and you have a spare beefy machine, you could set up an ltsp server, if a kid netboots the machine it will iuse linux over the net then
<ogra> if it boots locally it will use whatever is installed in disk
<sbalneav> Bug #36884
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 36884 in kdeedu "Can't type accented vowels" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36884
<ogra> yeah, just got a mail from that
<sbalneav> so did i
<ogra> obviously not fior us
<sbalneav> yep
<sbalneav> ogra: Bug #127294 looks kind of icky.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127294 in gpaint "Gpaint crashes when draggin toolbox" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127294
<ogra> well, we coud drop gpaint ...
<sbalneav> ogra: btw, can you sync and push new ltspfs?
<ogra> will do
<sbalneav> sync from upstream
<sbalneav> drop gpaint? nah.  Kids'll use it
<ogra> no
<ogra> thats tuxpaint
<ogra> gpaint is really the gnu version of paint
<sbalneav> They'll use both.  Kids in junior or senior high aren't going to want to use tuxpaint :)
<ogra> had you bumped the version ?
<ogra> (ltspfs)
<ogra> we'll need to switch to UUID at some point btw ...
<sbalneav> for which?
<ogra> ltspfs/d
<sbalneav> Umm, I did in the -packaging branch
<sbalneav> but not in the source.
<ogra> upstream version ?
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> or only ubuntu
<ogra> meh, k
<sbalneav> ltspfs-upstream
<sbalneav> no only ubuntu.
<ogra> yes, thats where i'm in
<sbalneav> I didn't bump upstream
<sbalneav> just ignore my packaging
<ogra> oh my, that last commit is a beast
<sbalneav> well, I basically merged all the work that was going on in -nodm back into upstream.
<ogra> right
<ogra> i should have merged earlier ...
<stgraber> As one of you already installed an Edubuntu server on AMD Athlon 64 X2 (4000+ in my case), can it easily handle 8 running openoffice (ram will be 2GB)
<ogra> it should, yes
<stgraber> previous serv was Celeron 1.8Ghz and was almost impossible to use as soon as you had 4-5 running openoffice
<stgraber> ogra: I'll try an italc install on this network tomorrow
<ogra> ah, cool
<stgraber> ogra: as they are using italc instead of vision6 on Windows as well
<stgraber> ogra: that way they have the same tool for Windows and Linux
<ogra> feedback would be appreciated
<ogra> i'm pondering italc as TCM replacement for gutsy+1
<ogra> even though its qt and adds extra stuff to the CD
<stgraber> yes that's what I'd like to see if italc can't work properly with thin clients I'll spend some time working on my reworked version of TCM
<stgraber> but I wouldn't like to work on something that already exists and is working
<stgraber> and same management tool on Windows+Linux will make the switch easier
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> italc is pretty widespread
<ogra> i find its UI horrible though, makes me want to kill kittens :P
<ogra> and the client is easy to manupilate
<stgraber> indeed, a simple killall and it's gone
<stgraber> we'll also have some problem with functions like shutdown/restart
<stgraber> power on is OK as it's using the WOL and we can manually specify the mac address, shutdown and restart are the problem as we'd need to send them to the client and not the server
<stgraber> but if the other functionalies work that'd already be wonderful
<stgraber> (I had some problem testing with gutsy packages yesterday, I built a new one for Feisty from current upstream source and it seems to work even between Linux and Windows)
<stgraber> ogra: oh, and I've been invited to UDS-Boston so I should be there to discuss those things :)
<ogra> i know :)
<ogra> looking forward to that
<sbalneav> ogra: Ah, looks like that gpaint bug was fixed in Gutsy by a new upstream release
<sbalneav> I'll commient
<ogra> yay :)
<ogra> lets see if ltspfs builds for me now in the new package :)
<shriphani> btw what do i introduce myself as to the school folks ?
<shriphani> edubuntu ambassador ?
* ogra always says "hi, i'm oli" :)
<sbalneav> What, you've been here a couple of days, and already you're our ambassador? :)
<ogra> shriphani, sure, if you feel like
<shriphani> heh.
<stgraber> If that server works fine for a whole classroom, I'm pretty sure they'll want some others, it only cost me 250 for Motherboard+CPU+2GB kingston the other pieces have been taken on old computers
<shriphani> I like big names and tags. I then get attention. I am shriphani would get me lesser attention than an ant in a 60 floors building.
<sbalneav> ogra: ok, gpaint's solved by upstream.  What else is bugging you?
<sbalneav> shriphani: bit of advice: don't come on too strong.  "I am shriphani" is a true statement, and one you can back up.  Slow and steady wins the race.
<ogra> sbalneav, not sure. looking
<shriphani> sbalneav: ok.
<ogra> sbalneav, im not really seeing anything urgent it seems by clicking through the packages
<sbalneav> Any bugs we should address in TCM?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> whats happening with my ltspfs build here
<ogra> oh
<ogra> heh
* ogra wonders why he never saw that binary-indep is called during package build here
<ogra> what a nonsense
* ogra comments out the make call in that ...
<sbalneav> Did I put something bad?
<ogra> sbalneav, i dont see TCM in our packagelist ...
<ogra> no no, that was my fault :)
<sbalneav> It isn't
<ogra> it just looks ugly in the build logs :) nothing that does any harm
<stgraber> ogra: If I write an oversized ISO on a DVD there will be no problem right ?
<ogra> yep
<stgraber> ogra: I'd like to try the latest edubuntu server i386 on that new server
<ogra> i'm just running such an install upstairs :)
<stgraber> ok, so let's find a USB hdd :)
<ogra> no guarantee that works though
<ogra> the new udeb didnt see and "in installer" testing yet
<ogra> it might heavily fail (very likely)
<stgraber> yeah, 1% CPU use running OpenOffice on a feisty livecd, looks good
<ogra> 	ltspfs_0.4.3-0ubuntu8_source.changes rejected
<ogra> :((
<ogra> meh
<sbalneav> No love?
<ogra> not really, no
<ogra> i'll tr ya differnt way
<ogra> *try a
<ogra> (the ugly one)
<ogra> *shudder* thats a 6000 lines patch
<ogra> oh sigh
<ogra> cat we release without localdev support :P
<charlie_21> hi all
<sbalneav> ogra: err, no :)
<sbalneav> What's the issue?  Anything I can do?
<ogra> sbalneav, my fear of buerocracy ... no issues beyond ... but i think we'll need an UVF exception for that i just dont feel like making the diff from -ubuntu7 to -ubuntu8 6600 lines big
<ogra> (if i keep the upstream version (... orig.tar.gz) all changes have to go into the diff.gz)
<sbalneav> Oh, crap, was it all the reformatting I did?
<sbalneav> That something I can plead for?
<sbalneav> Who should I ping?
<ogra> no, it was me being late with even looking at it
<ogra> nobody
<ogra> my job
<ogra> i just need to do a sane package now
<ogra> tell me a version number my. upstream :)
<ogra> *mr.
<ogra> 0.5 ?
<ogra> since it changes a lot and adds security
<sbalneav> right, lets go to .5
<moquist> Hmm. Two of my working edubuntu servers are no longer working. /scripts/nfs-premount runs ("Done."), and then (after a while, of course), "connect: Connection timed out"
<moquist> I'm just getting started on this one, but if anybody knows the answer I won't be annoyed if they type it in here. :)
<sbalneav> ogra, I'm going to go upstairs for a bit of lunch.  7.5 hours deserves a break, eh?
<sbalneav> You'll be here for a bit?
<ogra> not long anymore, as soon as i filed the UVFe i'll fade out i think
<ogra> 9pm here
<ogra> well 8:30
<sbalneav> Who's a good guy who I can bug if I need any more bugs fixed?
<sbalneav> how long till the ltspfs package gets pushed, btw?
<sbalneav> tomorrow?
<ogra> no idea, we'll need the UVFe granted
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<ogra> i'll prepare all paperwork now
<highvoltage> hello ogra
<highvoltage> sbalneav: LTSP has bugs!?
<ogra> sbalneav, well i'D have said laser, but he's not here :/ i'll just keep my lappie here
<sbalneav> highvoltage: :)
<sbalneav> We've squashed 4 bugs so far, none of them ltsp related.
<sbalneav> haven't even got started with ltsp bugs :)
<moquist> Stupid changed IP address of the server stupid... :)
<moquist> It's more complicated than that, but all I had to do was fix the custom PXE configuration.
<stgraber> argh, CD filed verfication ...
<ogra> http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98
<LaserJock> hi all
<ogra> LaserJock, !!!
<LaserJock> I thought I'd drop in an say happy Fix-it-Friday
<LaserJock> my day got completely messed up, I've got almost 5 hrs of meetings today :(
<ogra> do you smell the bug poison sbalneav sprayed around the room everywhere ?
<LaserJock> hehe, a little
<LaserJock> ogra: see my email on .iso sizes?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> not much i can do atm
<LaserJock> sure, I know
<LaserJock> just wondered if you had any ideas
<ogra> i have to do test installs anyway, the udeb is untested yet
<ogra> (just running one test upstairs (on a USB 1.1 disk since 4h) )
<sbalneav> I been squashin' bugs since 6AM
<ogra> crazy guy :)
* ogra hugs sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey, I don't mint the hugs, but stop pinching my *ss :)
<sbalneav> mind
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> lol
* sbalneav gets punchy
<stgraber> ogra: chroot building failed inside the installer (mkfifo not found)
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> thats the last thing i expected to be missing
* ogra looks forward to a funn weekend with d-i
* ogra goes upstairs if he can already confirm that
<ogra> hmm, no, looks like it will take until tomorrow
<ogra> only 50% of the desktop packages installed yet
<moquist> sbalneav: how hard would it be to give everyone rwx perms on local devices, so we don't need to add people to the fuse group?
<ogra> stgraber, can you send me the syslog ?
<sbalneav> eww
<sbalneav> umm
<ogra> moquist, wont work
<ogra> you cant mount without being in the fuse group
<sbalneav> I think distro team would have kittens
<ogra> heh, yeah
<moquist> Oh, I don't mean for the whole project.
<ogra> that as well
<sbalneav> You can do it YOURSELF if you want
<moquist> I meant for us, here. Because we don't care. :)
<sbalneav> oh, that's easy
<ogra> is it ?
<LaserJock> how is moodle coming, btw ? :-)
<ogra> sbalneav, i dont even think thats possible
<sbalneav> insert/change the udev rule for /dev/fuse, to set perms 666, and chmod 755 fusermount
<sbalneav> ogra: sure it is, I've done it.
<moquist> LaserJock: OK; ditching invoke-rc.d let it finish. (I know, that's weird.)
<moquist> sbalneav: Thx. The udev rules is what I was hoping your answer would be. :-)
<ogra> sbalneav, still
<sbalneav> unless something's changed, fuse's security was just through the groups perm
<LaserJock> moquist: what did you replace it with?
<moquist> sbalneav, ogra: is there any possibility this *could* be built in as a config option? (With lots of appropriate warnings, etc.)
<moquist> LaserJock: Er, wwwconfig. Just for testing. ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra> moquist, over my dead body :)
<moquist> LaserJock: I know I need to replace it with update-rc.d; ogra clued me on that this morning.
<sbalneav> It would have to be a libfuse + udev change.
<sbalneav> ickypoo
<ogra> sbalneav, the mount will be owned by the user in any case
<moquist> ogra: OK, sounds like something I won't keep pursuing, then. :-)
<LaserJock> moquist: ah, sweet
<ogra> moquist, a) i dont belive its doable with the structure we have ... b) you break the whole system security through what sbalneav suggested above
<stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/edu-syslog
<sbalneav> yeah, it's a bad bad thing.
<ogra> stgraber, hmm, thanks
<LaserJock> well, I have to be off. More meetings to attend
<LaserJock> but keep it up and crush those bugs!!!
<stgraber> looking at it I could have cut it to the last 10 lines :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yeas
<ogra> hmm, i have no idea how to get mkfifo in the d-i environment
<stgraber> ogra: I have something weird now, it doesn't find fdisk either, but I'm pretty sure it did at the beginning of the install
<stgraber> (it can't install grub because it can't find fdisk)
<ogra> ok
<moquist> sbalneav, ogra: how is the "whole system security" broken through sbalneav's suggestion?
<ogra> using mkfifo is bad in the installer
* ogra tatoos on forehead: "i want to use mknod if i work in d-i"
<stgraber> ogra: I'll restart an install and check if mkfifo is present at partitioning time (as I know fdisk was at this stage and wasn't at the end of the install)
<ogra> moquist, you can loop mount stuff rw through fuse for example
<ogra> stgraber, mkfifo is to high level, i need to change to mknod
<moquist> ogra: can you loop mount the NFS root rw?
<ogra> there wont be a udeb containing the mkfifobinary
<moquist> no...it's not exported rw.
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'm talking about local dirs :)
<moquist> ogra: We don't have a single TC in our district that has local devices that pose any security risk.
<ogra> right, feel free to do it for your setup
<ogra> but you'll never see me dropping all permissions on /dev/fuse
<ogra> not even with an option thats called --feel-free-to-shoot-yourself-in-both-foots-with-bazooka
<ogra> *feet .. bah
<stgraber> any reason of why we don't have fdisk ?? :)
<ogra> because we use partman ?
<stgraber> well, grub use it
<stgraber> so we can't install grub :)
<ogra> oh
<ogra> well, you cant have everything :)
<stgraber> uhm, a boot loader would be great though :)
<ogra> might be caused by the oversizedness ...
<ogra> is there an fdisk udeb ?
<stgraber> indeed, I'm looking for the udeb
<stgraber> fdisk is in util-linux
<ogra> (look in the menu ... "load additional installer components" or so
<ogra> )
<moquist> ogra: Understood. But it's quite a pain to maintain the fuse groups, to be honest. It would be good if there were an easy way to say "give everyone access to local devices"...though I guess that's *exactly* what you're not wanting.
<moquist> Maybe we could say "give everyone access to any local device with a name that matches one of these patterns"
<nixternal> ogra: anything need to be done for edubuntu-desktop-kde?
<ogra> moquist, well, it would be cool to have a feature to add a selection of users to a group for sure, thats independent from fuse i guess
<ogra> nixternal, not atm i guess ... i never installed it :)
<nixternal> i am going to get a test system up and running this weekend
<stgraber> lb
<ogra> nixternal, feel free to add more stuff to it if you like
<stgraber> oops
<stgraber> ogra: load additional didn't work, I just downloaded the udeb and installed by hand
<ogra> that did work ?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> I now have fdisk
<moquist> sbalneav, ogra: thx
<nixternal> OK..any changes I make I will provide you with a debdiff..I am only a little MOTU right now :)
<ogra> moquist, imho that should be a feature in gnome-useradmin
<ogra> so you can select a set of users (or all of them) and right click ... add to group
<ogra> breaking the security concept for a usability issue isnt the right way :)
<sbalneav> is the UVF exception posted anywhere?
<ogra> its a bug
<ogra> you should have the mail for it
<sbalneav> Hmm, no I don't!
<ogra> youre no bug contact for your own package ?
<ogra> Bug 138048
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138048 in ltspfs "UpstreamVersionFreeze Exception request for version 0.5" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138048
<sbalneav> Too bad pitti's on Honeymoon, otherwise we could bug him :)
<sbalneav> Hmm, who else loves me in #ubuntu-devel :)
<ogra> for what ?
<ogra> the UVFe ?
<sbalneav> yeah :)
<ogra> ubuntu-release
<ogra> everyone in the team can approve
<sbalneav> Who all's in there?
<sbalneav> or is that a channel?
<ogra> its a team
<ogra> its subscribed to the bug
<ogra> click on the team name in the left menu
<moquist> ogra: Yeah, you're right.
<stgraber> ogra: I've manually installed mkfifo so I can see if something else doesn't work with the new udeb
<ogra> stgraber, cool, thanks
<ogra> that saves me one step :)
* moquist boots a TC over an SSH tunnel
<moquist> It's kinda slow, going encrypted over the Internet. ;)
<stgraber> ogra: a little remaining issue : unable to rename /var/log/ltsp-build-client.log no such file or directory
<ogra> oh
<ogra> did you have a proper progressbar ?
<ogra> moquist, http://blog.daniel-baumann.ch/2007/09/07#20070907_debian-live-web-boot
<stgraber> nope, 0% during the whole chroot install
<ogra> then it didnt work at all
<stgraber> now it's doing the mksquashfs and still no progress bar
<ogra> i was suspecting that
<ogra> in-target eats the output and forwards it to syslog
<stgraber> hmm, looks like the mksquashfs part finish by an infinite loop ...
<ogra> is there progress on console4 ?
<ogra> yes, its inifinite ...
<ogra> since it waits for the output of mksquashfs
<moquist> ogra: cool
<stgraber> ogra: ok, I killed the post-install script and copied the syslog to /target so you can have a look if you want
<ogra> that would be nice
<ogra> there should actually be no output at all in it from the client building
<stgraber> ogra: oh, it seems that I have my usual problem, connecting the server to my LAN (only one NIC), then configuring my DHCP to next-server to the right IP
<stgraber> ogra: but I get a initramfs prompt
<stgraber> ogra: looks like nbd-client doesn't receive the right IP or something like that
<ogra> so its happening before the mount attempt  ?
<ogra> whats the exact error you see ?
<stgraber> target doesn't have /bin/init
<ogra> do you have an image in /opt/ltsp/images ?
<stgraber> yep
<ogra> an entry in /etc/inetd,conf for nbdrootd ?
<ogra> s/\,/\.
<stgraber> yep, I can manually connect using nbd-client and mount
<ogra> hmm
<stgraber> nbd-client 172.16.4.254 2000 /dev/nbd0 && mount -t squashfs /dev/nbd0 /rofs
<ogra> ls /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.22-10-386/ubuntu/fs/ ?
<stgraber> oh, found the problem :)
<stgraber> root@edubuntu:/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386# cat pxelinux.cfg/default
<stgraber> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=${PORT}
<ogra> heh
<ogra> bug in ltsp-update-image
<ogra> remove nbdport=${PORT}
<ogra> that should only be set if it differs from 2000
<ogra> (and indeed it should have a portnumber, not ${PORT} ;) )
<stgraber> I have put 2000 and rebooted, it works
<ogra> should also work without it
<ogra> but thats good then
<ogra> sbalneav, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DebuggingLTSP
<ogra> if you have more ideas, feel free to add :)
* ogra calls it a day
<LaserJock> afternoon Edubunters!!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: do we have a dead bug count? :-)
#edubuntu 2007-09-08
<moquist> ogra: the update-rc.d man-page doesn't mention that it actually stops/starts/restarts services.
<moquist> ogra: Also, the invoke-rc.d man-page says "All access to the init scripts by Debian packages' maintainer scripts should be done through invoke-rc.d."
<moquist> ogra: Also, invoke-rc.d checks for the existence of the specified init script. I'm not sure it's necessary to wrap the invoke-rc.d invocation with if [ -e /etc/init.d/blah ] ; then...
<LaserJock> moquist: but it doesn't work right in the case of moodle
<moquist> LaserJock: Yeah. But it /ought/ to work.
<LaserJock> evening
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what time is it there?
<sbalneav> hey
<sbalneav> 21:09
<sbalneav> gettin tired
<sbalneav> what are you?  1 hour or 2 behind me?
<LaserJock> gotta be at least 2
<LaserJock> I'm in Pacific time
<sbalneav> Just starting to dig into thin client manager
<LaserJock> I just got notes from my boss
<LaserJock> for the class I'm teaching Monday
<LaserJock> my first go at doing a university lecture :-)
<sbalneav> Dude!
<LaserJock> it's a senior level Physical Chemistry class to boot
<sbalneav> First year students?
<LaserJock> no, 37 seniors
<sbalneav> wow
<LaserJock> I'm a tad nervous
<LaserJock> my boss has to be gone and none of the other faculty could fill in
<sbalneav> hey, you've heard of the old joke of how you can tell the organic from the inorganic chemists, right?
<LaserJock> so he asked me
<LaserJock> no
<sbalneav> No?
<sbalneav> The inorganic chemists wash their hands BEFORE they go to the restroom :)
<sbalneav> That was told to my on my first day of university chem
<sbalneav> which was my first class in uni.
<sbalneav> So, it stuck
<sbalneav> By the prof, incedentally :)
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> So, I'm looking at something lighter weight than vnc for tcm
<sbalneav> basically, coming up with a screenshot app
<pengen_jago> hallo
<pengen_jago> would somebody help me?
<pengen_jago> i want to sharing my printer to win xp clients
<pengen_jago> ahhh... capeeekkkkk deeehhhh....
<pengen_jago> chating ma mesin... huhuhuhuhu....
<shriphani> that was the first time I saw such crap on freenode.
<stgraber> ogra: I managed to have italc working with the thin clients (and managed from a Windows computer)
<sbalneav> morning all
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<stgraber> sbalneav: I managed to have italc running on thin clients :) but some functions still don't work (shutdown/log out/demo mode)
<stgraber> sbalneav: demo should be easy to solve, logout I don't really see why it doesn't work, shutdown will be a problem but isn't necessary where I'm installing the network
<sbalneav> I don't know what italc is?  Something like TCP/SCP?
<sbalneav> If so, it may need modification to the way we handle the thin client logins.
<stgraber> sbalneav: http://italc.sourceforge.net/
<stgraber> it's being used to control some Windows classrooms here and can also be used on Linux (their modified VNC really works fine)
<sbalneav> Wheeeheee, ollie's and my UVFe was accepted.
<sbalneav> ltspfs 0.5 finally upstream
<MartinW> Hello
<MartinW> I've got a very old PC with 128mb RAM (It was top of the line ;-) ) which I plan to set up with Linux and donate to a school. This is the only computer the school is going to get so I won't need networking. Would edubuntu work (Preferably LTS) or should I go for xubuntu? Perhaps another flavor of linux? What would you reccomend?
<MartinW> Thanks for reading this, but I managed to solve it by asking on #ubuntu.
<cje> hi, I am a volunteer supporting a public middle school in an attempt to move to FOSS on edubuntu, and we are having a networking issue.  Is there anyone here who has experience with networking with legacy Windows desktops?
<boyam> cje, go ahead and ask your question...don't know if i can hlp..someone that can will chime in....
<cje> boyam: k, thx, I'm typing now
<cje> boyam, we are trying to talk to a bunch of windows boxes
<cje> every time that we reboot the server, we get a new IP address.  But the Windows boxes are still trying to find the edubuntu box under the old DNS.
<boyam> hmmm...have you trie increasing your dhcp lease time to something higher, like 7 days?
<cje> boyam, we are not sure how to do that, and wouldn't that just push our problem out 7 days?
<boyam> well when you reboot the server, it should honor those lease times givin your clients the same ip
<boyam> so dns doesn't have an issue by having stale dns entries for the clients
<boyam> is  your dhcp server rdubuntu?
<boyam> *edubuntu
<cje> boyam, we believe that the dhcp server is an ATT router.  Does that make sense?
<boyam> sure..i've got routers actin as dhcp server...the router..is it managed by ATT?
<cje> I don't think it is managed by anyone :)
<boyam> hmmm...ok...
<boyam> what i don't understand is why when you reboot the server, you get a new address...when the router is handing out the address....
<cje> boyam, we are getting closer.  More details in a secy.
<cje> thx
<boyam> np
<cje> boyam, okay, now the weird problem is that the MAC address on our ASUS V2 edubuntu server keeps changing every time we reboot the machine!
<boyam> mac adresss changes?????
<boyam> that shouldn't happen...how many nics in the server?
<cje> boyam, one.
<cje> boyam, I know, it is weird.  We are confused, too.
<boyam> is ther some setting in th bios that makes the mac dynamic or something?...the mac is normally burned into the nic so to speak...
<cje> boyam, thx, that is what we are checking now.
<cje> boyam, just to ask a really stupid question, isn't the MAC address the number that appears on the first line of the output of ifconfig?
<cje> for example, eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:30:1B:43:76:33
<boyam> yep
<boyam> if your mac is changing..you don't have a dns issue, you have an arp cache issue...
<cje> k, thanks, interesting.  we haven't heard of arp cache issues.  Any recommendations as to how to diagnose it and solve it?  Thanks a bunch.
<boyam> firstly...solve your mac changing issue, by either taking out/disabling that nic and replacing it...this will stabilize the mac and your arp cache will stabilize
<boyam> when working in a tcp/ip environment..folks tend to forget about layer 1 and 2...which includes the mac address..if the mac isn't right....IP in turn will not work...
<cje> boyam, k, thx, we are going to get another NIC and try that.
<boyam> is the existing nic onboard?
<boyam> or pci card
<cje> boyam, yes, it is on-board, and we are in the process of installing a new NIC.
<boyam> ok...
<rdvon> hi
<rdvon> hi
<rdvon> hi
<cje> rdvon, hi
<cje> rdvon, how are you?
<rdvon> I'm fine.
<rdvon> I just wanted to see how many people actually used this os..
<rdvon> not many :)
<boyam> lol...
<rdvon> is this os meant for schools... or for kids.. or what? I'm really not sure :\
<boyam> rdvon..both
<rdvon> oh.
<rdvon> but wouldn't it be easier to just download all the packages on ubuntu or something? does it use gnome?
<boyam> sigh
<boyam> everyone has their own way of doing things i guess
<cje> boyam, swapping in a new nic and setting a static ip cleared up almost all the problems
<moquist> ogra, LaserJock: good news - I got around the moodle removal bug... || true seems to have fixed it.
* moquist blushes deeply
<moquist> ogra, LaserJock: my latest package is on its way to REVU right now
<LaserJock> oh, right
<LaserJock> great
<moquist> LaserJock: but invoke-rc.d was *completing*...
<boyam> cje:great
<moquist> I don't get it, but at least it's working now.
<moquist> LaserJock: Sorry; I meant that the script was getting to 'exit 0' at the end and doing so; that's the important part. (invoke-rc.d could *complete*, but with a non-zero RC and break things.)
<LaserJock> that makes some sense, I don't know that I would have thought of that right away though, obviously ;-)
<moquist> LaserJock: will you be able to test the package and get back to me? should I be doing anything more right now?
<LaserJock> as soon as they are up I'll test them
<LaserJock> moquist: did you do the -standalone metapackage yet?
<moquist> No. So I should work on that, then. :)
<LaserJock> yeah, you could work on that while I'm testing
<LaserJock> it should be just a matter of creating a new binary stanza in debian/control
<moquist> the upload to REVU is complete
#edubuntu 2007-09-09
<moquist> ogra pointed me to one of the ltsp.*standalone packages to use as an example.
<moquist> I can't work on this right this very minute, BTW.
<moquist> LaserJock: OK, and then somehow I probably have to tell dpkg-buildpackage which package source I'm building. Or something.
<moquist> Or I have to tell pbuilder which binary package to build from the source package...this seems more likely.
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> it'll build all the .debs from one pbuilder run
<moquist> Oh - if I add another stanza in debian/control, I'll probably get another .dsc out of dpkg-buildpackage -S.
<LaserJock> nope
<moquist> Oh.
<LaserJock> the source package is the same
* moquist should just try it and find out. :)
<LaserJock> it's just that when you build the source package, via pbuilder or whatever, you'll get 2 .debs instead of 1
* moquist nods
<moquist> this sounds easy, then.
<moquist> Last night my projector bulb burned out, so I don't have the possibility of watching a movie to distract me from stuff like this, tonight. :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> the only thing will be to make sure that the file go to the right package
<LaserJock> so you might have to do some small tweaking
<moquist> I don't follow that.
<moquist> "the file" ?
<moquist> which file?
<LaserJock> sorry, that should be files
<LaserJock> you might have to tell it that all the moodle stuff goes to the moodle package
<LaserJock> and not to the moodle-standalone
<moquist> Also, I've rolled some other packages that I'm testing (as you know), and one user found that 'apt-get remove' left some of the package files around. Do I have to do anything special to remove files, the opposite of adding dh_install to the install: target in debian/rules?
<LaserJock> moquist: where were the files?
<moquist> My xterminator package installs this file: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator. But apt-get remove left that file in place.
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<LaserJock> files in /etc/ are different
<LaserJock> because they are configuration files
<moquist> ...and then all X logins failed, because the /usr/bin/xterminator line in that file couldn't execute properly. (I've since changed it to /usr/bin/xterminator || true ;)
<LaserJock> doing a --purge should remove that file
<moquist> Right. Sounds good; sounds like addint || true was the right thing to do.
<LaserJock> but you can also tell dpkg that that file is not to be considered a conf file, I believe
<moquist> I should look at other packages that drop files in Xsession.d to see what's right.
<moquist> LaserJock: gotta run, thanks for your help
<LaserJock> k
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey, you know a thing or two about CHEMISTRY, right?
<LaserJock> well, supposedly
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav> Bug #95032
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95032 in rasmol "Rasmol displays incorrect distances" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95032
<sbalneav> Interatomic distances shown by the Rasmol 'monitor' command are incorrect!
<sbalneav> So...
<LaserJock> oh right, I've seen that bug
<sbalneav> Wanna help me sqwash a buuug
<LaserJock> ok, I've got his .pdb loaded
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, I can't reproduce it on Feisty, I get the correct number
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> in gutsy, it crashes rasmol
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> we really should probably ditch rasmol
<sbalneav> wait, I don't have the c16
<sbalneav> I can't tell
<sbalneav> I've got a whacky thing on the screen
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> a long caterpillar looking thing?
<sbalneav> looks like it say 11252A
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> hydrocarbon chain?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> hexadecane I guess
<sbalneav> So if gasoline's like, 8 carbons long, this stuff's gotta be either axle grease, or plastic
<LaserJock> hehe, something like that
<sbalneav> how can we tell if the numbers are right?
<LaserJock> it should be about 1.54 angstroms
<sbalneav> ok, I thing this is saying 1.52
<LaserJock> my reading was 1.52 angstroms, which makes sense since it's not exactly ethane
<LaserJock> it's got the other C-C bond on the other side
<LaserJock> which should make it a tad smaller I should think
<sbalneav> Right, right, yeah.  I picked up on that right away.  Absolutely.
<sbalneav> I agree with your analysis :)
<LaserJock> it's certainly not the 2.04 the guy reported
<sbalneav> So, what's the verdict?
<sbalneav> Bug = Close?
<LaserJock> I'll do it
<sbalneav> Whoohoo
<sbalneav> bug #124376
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124376 in atomix "package atomix-data 2.14.0-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124376
<sbalneav> I'm figuring that one was just a fluke
<sbalneav> How much you want to be he was running something like easyubuntu, and it killed the package manager, or something?
<sbalneav> ^be^bet
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I decided to run a semi-empirical MOPAC7/PM3 geometry optimization calculation, just to check that C-C distance ;-)
<LaserJock> gotta love linux
<sbalneav> Hey, can you still see me?
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> Cool, I'm signed on upstairs now, on the laptop
<sbalneav> Still on downstairs too.
<sbalneav> this bip irc proxy is cool.
<sbalneav> Kids kicked me off.  I managed to get the old game "fallout" going under wine
<sbalneav> so they wanted to play that.
<sbalneav> Wine's really something else.
<sbalneav> It's really quite amazing just how many programs do work under it.
<LaserJock> yeah, unfortunately the couple apps for my wife I've tried didn't work
<LaserJock> but a guy at work asked me about games in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> as I've got him converted
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hehe, my calculations gave 1.51 angstroms for the bond length
<LaserJock> Free computational chemistry programs FTW!!
<sbalneav> Well, with my detailed quantum-spectral analysis I did by putting A C16 molecule, Einsteins flashlight, and schrodingers cat in a box, and passing them through a slow Fourier analysis program I wrote (really, who needs the Fast Fourier, when clockspeeds are so high these days?) I cam out with 1.515 angstoms, so I'd say you came pretty close.  Good job!
<johnny_> is there a nice way to get all the users in a group?
<johnny_> closest thing i've found is getent
<johnny_> or maybe somebody here already has a script for this kinda thing
<johnny_> basically i'm trying to write a script to prep all the terminals every night
<johnny_> like clearing their home directory, adding stuff, that kinda thing
<sbalneav> Getent's the right way/
<johnny_> except you can't pick and chose the fields :)
<johnny_> cut to the rescue i guess
<johnny_> sbalneav, so, dnsmasq works great here now :)
<johnny_> if anybody else is interested in using dnsmasq with ltsp, let me know
<jkb973> Hello all,,,
<jkb973> Question about installing Edubuntu 7.04. Basically, works on some machines, not others. Is there anyplace I can get a list of compatibility issues?
<sbalneav> ogra: You around there, dude?
<kgoetz> sbalneav: hi mate
<sbalneav> Hello
<kgoetz> :)
<shriphani> right. I am fixing an appointment for a meeting with a computer teacher here.
<shriphani> BTW is there anyone from kerala here ?
<dan_> test
<dan_> hello
<dan_> radio check
<shriphani> radio check ?
#edubuntu 2008-09-01
<Richtopia> Can some one help me with my PS3
<Richtopia>  i need help with my screen Resolution on my PS3 i have a 73" DLP HD tv HDMI  the screen is zoomed in i cant see the buttons like close or next and back and i have a black border a round the window so its not fitting the screen can anyone help?
<ogra_> juliux, ping
<ogra_> juliux, whats going on with #edubuntu-de ? i dont like to be in #ubuntu-de
<juliux> ogra_: i forwared #edubuntu-de to #ubuntu-de because there is no traffic in #edubuntu-de and no usere since the last two month, only your joins;)
<ogra_> well, not different to #ubuntu-education
<juliux> yeps
<juliux> if now somebody joins #edubuntu-de he will forwarded to #ubutnu-de and will get support there
<juliux> and it is less work for the german irc team
<highvoltage> where's riched?
<ogra> not been around since ages
<ogra> no idea
<highvoltage> ah ok
<skybinary> hiya
<jodan20xx> hello?
<jodan20xx> Is there anyone familiar with wireless networking in Edubuntu?
<jodan20xx> is there anyone in here at all?
#edubuntu 2008-09-02
<moquist> ogra: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3622
#edubuntu 2008-09-03
<Shitakeguy> hello
<Pavlz> > i saw my own peronal e-mail: it's arrived a message that communicate to me: Free Software Foundation.Inc and GNU Software "25 years happy birthday" http://gnu.org
<tsurc> Hi, I'm having a major problem with authentication on ubuntu 8.04 ltsp
<tsurc> In the handbook I see than when using multiple servers you have to run 'sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys --export ssh_known_hosts.myhostname'
<tsurc> and copy it into /opt/ltsp/ then run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<tsurc> think is this isn't working, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts doesnt show any changes at all?
<coolio> anybody home here
<coolio> our dhcp fail to start
<coolio> any tips
<tsurc> This is going to sound crazy, but I need to change the gid of messagebus group on a dapper box, any idea how I'd do it without braking everything
<moquist> ogra: ping
#edubuntu 2008-09-04
<neil_d> hi, installed a LTSP system on the weekend :)
<cbx333> boo
<juliux> hi cbx333
<cbx333> hey juliux long tim
<juliux> oh yes
<juliux> how are you? everything fine?
<cbx333> yeh good ogod
<Petaris> Hello all
<Petaris> I am trying to reconfigure my ldap settings but when I run dpkg-reconfigure libpam-ldap or libnss-ldap it doesn't do anything
<Petaris> If I try to force it with the -f option I get an error about not finding the Libpam.pm frontend
<Petaris> Does anyone have a thought about what might be causing this?
<Petaris> I should also note that I did an upgrade to Hardy Haron yesterday via the update manager
<Petaris> ok, I purged those packages and re-installed and now its working
<Petaris> sorry to bother
<Petaris> :)
<Petaris> hrm
<OlderGuy> just practising my typing - tooooooo slow
<LaserJock> ogra: thanks for taking care of denemo :(
<Shitakeguy> Hey howdy.
<holycow> hi guys
<holycow> i am trying to ship an ubuntu desktop with as much 'educational' software as possible
<holycow> without running the whole edubuntu themed interface stuff
<holycow> how do i get a list of what might be considered educational software?
<holycow> i don't see education category listed in synaptic any more
<cilkay> holycow: Just pop the add on Edubuntu CD into an Ubuntu and click on the "Start addon installer" button in the dialog that pops up. You'll see all the packages there.
<holycow> oh!
<cilkay> I think there might be some more packages in Kubuntu too.
<holycow> aha awesome, essentially i want a diff between ubuntu and edubuntu minus the desktop themes so this cd thing is perfect
<cilkay> I don't like how they're labeled "Edutainment" in KDE.
<holycow> yeah we installed kedu stuff as much as possible
<holycow> this is cool
<holycow> me too
<LaserJock> holycow: how accurate of a diff do you want?
<holycow> okay this gets as close to that formula as possible, i appreciate the suggestion
<holycow> :)
<LaserJock> you could take the dependencies of the edubuntu-desktop packages and subtract of edubuntu-artwork
<holycow> oh hey
<holycow> that could work, lets try it
<cilkay> Speaking of themes, GDM themes are scary. I've never experienced hard lock ups after changing a KDM theme before but I've had it happen a couple of times with GDM today.
<cilkay> It's a fresh Ubuntu install onto which I'd installed the UbuntuStudio add on and when I tried to install the Edubuntu add on, apt complained that it couldn't due to a conflict, though it wasn't specific about the conflict. A kind fellow on #ubuntustudio found that "edubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-desktop which depends on ubuntu-sounds which conflicts with ubuntustudio-sounds".
<cilkay> I removed the UbuntuStudio theme and Edubuntu installed just fine.
<LaserJock> right yeah
<LaserJock> we've heard of that issue before
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what can be done about that right now
<LaserJock> perhaps better use of the edubuntu-addon metapackages would help
#edubuntu 2008-09-05
<james_> I am having an issue where after several students log in the server slows down and the other network card shuts down so no ssh access during this condition.  the only way I have been able to fix this is to power off / reset the server and everything is fine for a while..  opteron / 2gb ram edubuntu 8.04 / pxeboot
<james_> has anyone seen anything like this before?  btw. it's edubuntu amd64
<cilkay> james_: I don't understand the "pxe boot" and server part. Please explain.
<cilkay> I've had strange things happening with LTSP, such as the first netboot is very fast, faster than a local hard disk boot actually, and each subsequent one gets slower to the point where by the third or fourth, it may never boot.
<cilkay> The server certainly isn't underpowered with a P4 2.8GHz and 2GB of RAM.
<cilkay> Today, when I changed a GDM theme and logged out to see the new theme, all I saw was a black screen. The keyboard wasn't responsive. I couldn't ssh into the machine to see what was going on. "No route to host." When I power cycled the machine, it was fine. There is something funny going on.
<james_> That behavior is very similar to what I am seeing.  pxe boot is the same as netboot and the server is the main computer.
<cilkay> james_: I thought you were pxe/netbooting the server, which didn't make sense.
<Pavlz> http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilsoftware.it%2Farticoli.asp%3FID%3D4624&sl=it&tl=en&hl=it&ie=UTF-8
<wima> Since the last upgrade, i have the problem that local devices from one user show up for all users.
<wima> so i'm having about 20 floppys on my desktop
<wima> does anyone know what's causing this?
<carwash> In skolelinux/debian-edu there is an install option for workstations automatically authenticating against the debian-edu server and mounting home directories. Is there a similar option in edubuntu? If not, how would one achieve a similar goal in ubuntu?
<wima> does anyone know how i can avoid the floppy icons to show up on the desktop?
<LaserJock> ogra: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxtype/+bug/261991 doesn't need a FFe does it?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 261991 in tuxtype "Merge tuxtype 1.5.17.dfsg1-3 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<McLinux> Hi - Can anyone tell me why I ended up with edubuntu when I installed ubuntu?  I haven't noticed any difference but the name, but I'm a bit curious is all!
<HedgeMage> McLinux:  Perhaps you used and Edubuntu CD by accident, or perhaps you installed the package "Edubuntu-desktop"
<HedgeMage> McLinux:  the only differences between edubuntu and ubuntu are the art and packages included by default -- you can actually turn one into the other and back again with ease
<McLinux> could it have been from one of the updates I downloaded?
<HedgeMage> no, updates just bring your existing stuff up to current versions.
<McLinux> hmm, how do you change desktop packages (I've had ubuntu a few months but I'm just starting  to play with it!)?
<HedgeMage> McLinux:  just install ubuntu-desktop and remove any edubuntu stuff you don't want
<McLinux> Thanks
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
#edubuntu 2008-09-06
<catalao> i need help
<catalao> i cant understand why terminals get so slow on boot-up
#edubuntu 2008-09-07
<LaserJock> hello Edubunteros!
<LaserJock> ogra, sbalneav: I messed around a lot with the ~edubuntu-bugs list of subscribed packages. I took out squeak and rasmol and added a bunch of packages that we ship and no other team in Main seems responsible for
<LaserJock> good news is it's a better reflection of what we're shipping, bad news is we got around 70 new bugs on our list
<Fritz87> hello
<Fritz87> Is there anyone in particular here that I could speak with about edubuntu? I'm writing a proposal for my work (I work for a school district that spends a lot of money on software and software licenses and could save a lot of money switching to open source)
<Fritz87> I need to go to a meeting now, but I'll idle in the channel and if anyone is interested in giving me some advice I'll be back soon
<Fritz87> As far as what I do for the school I'm a college student that helps the tech department part-time during the summer, just doing it because I want to help its not my job or anything
<cilkay> Fritz87: I'm also trying to get a small school using Linux. I think the barriers are more political and human-related rather than technical.
<cilkay> People, particularly some teachers, are afraid of change.
<cilkay> I hear all sorts of nonsensical reasons why they don't want Linux, never mind that none of them have ever used Linux.
<Fritz87> ah I see
<cilkay> Fritz87: Technical solutions to political problems will never succeed. Unfortunately, you'll have to play the political game too.
<cilkay> Identify a teacher or teachers who have a need you can meet.
<cilkay> Get them on-side early and create a success story upon which you can build with the rest of the organization.
<Fritz87> oh wow! thanks! you just gave me this great idea.  One of the teachers in the school gets grants to try new technology, she can do whatever she wants basically
<Fritz87> shes actually invovled in this "classroom of the future" program or something like that
<cilkay> As long as that teacher has political clout, that will help. Otherwise, she'll be sidelined easily as "just another geek".
<cilkay> Geeks are easy to sideline because they usually don't play the political game well.
<Fritz87> shes just a regular teacher with a very rich father
<Fritz87> I mean, if I can't convince some people in the school to try it, i might be able to influence that program through her
<cilkay> I think it's ridiculous that we should have to work so hard to get this accepted but that is the sad state of affairs in education.
<cilkay> If you can find someone who is influential who understands the greater purpose of free software, you'll have a powerful ally.
<cilkay> If you're pushing free/open source software on the basis of lowered costs, you'll lose.
<cilkay> As far as schools are concerned, Microsoft's software is free or close to it.
<cilkay> free as in, "no cost"
<Fritz87> well, one thing is that they use 1/2 macs 1/2 pcs, and they buy lots of extra software.  The other thing is, the school discount on macs is 5%
<Fritz87> its just so horrible to me...  and they are missing out on a ton of money because theya re just barely under the computers per capita to get state funding for technology
<cilkay> That's why I mentioned Microsoft specifically. I know that Apple dosen't use the drug dealer strategy as well as Microsoft does.
<cilkay> MS educational pricing is very low.
<cilkay> If you're fighting on the basis of costs alone, you're doomed because the proponents of the status quo, and they are many, will argue that it will cost more to switch to free software due to retraining costs.
<Fritz87> ah I see.  So I should focus on the merit of open source and linux itself
<cilkay> They'll argue "no one uses free software", or "it's not as functional - we'll miss features", or appallingly, as I've heard, "our kids will not be employable because they won't "know" MS Office".
<Fritz87> one other thing is they have laptop carts for classrooms, but are considering switching to netbooks, and the one they like so far is the HP 2133, which is the lowest power out of all the netbooks
<Fritz87> has 512mb ram and a 1.0 ghz processor (not the atom)
<cilkay> Asus and Acer make some pretty sweet netbooks too but that's just an implementation detail.
<Fritz87> what I mean is running linux on those is a better plan than vista for sure
<Fritz87> ah I see.... so what apporach would you take, it sounds next to impossible
<cilkay> There's no way you're going to run Vista on 512M.
<cilkay> I have a very good relationship with the principal of the small school in question.
<cilkay> I've been listening to him for years talking about "holistic education" so I know that it is something he values highly.
<cilkay> Part of holistic education is participation in the broader community.
<cilkay> ... from the local to the global one.
<cilkay> This is a secular school with children of all kinds of backgrounds and religious faiths.
<Fritz87> ah I see
<cilkay> The common theme though is that education is more than just learning the 3Rs. We have, for instance, character education and civics to promote the personal and civic growth of children.
<cilkay> Part of that is what I call "caring and sharing".
<Fritz87> So basically, that school is a perfect candidate, but there are still things in your way
<cilkay> If you haven't read Stallman's argument why schools in particular should use free software, you should.
<cilkay> That argument resonates with the principal.
<Fritz87> I don't feel very optmistic now, but I think I can approach the problem better and at the very least I can publish something online that I'd be proud to sign my name on
<Fritz87> and maybe someone else could try their luck somewhere else with maybe even one of the ideas I present, then It'd be worth it I think
<Fritz87> alright I'll google that right now.  Thanks so much by the way
<cilkay> But, the principal is smart enough to know that broad support amongst his teachers would be preferable to him to him mandating we use free software.
<cilkay> So, he's telling me *how* I need to sell this. You need to find someone like that in your organization.
<cilkay> From my sales experience, I know that anytime I can have a prospective client tell me how he likes being sold, I have a client.
<cilkay> Fritz87: I didn't mean to tell you this to discourage you. You shouldn't be discouraged at all. You're dealing with humans and their wide range of abilities, outlooks, strengths, and frailties.
<Fritz87> well I thought it would be easier, but I'm definately not going to get up, if anything you've just pointed me in the right direction
<Fritz87> *give up
<cilkay> You're approaching this as most techies would, from the perspective of, "Isn't this great technology?"
<cilkay> People claim they buy with their heads but they really buy with their hearts.
<cilkay> Most anyway.
<Fritz87> I feel bad ruling out cost though, I heard that they spend something like 22k on software licenses per year
<cilkay> That's why really well-done ads are often content-free and full of motherhood type stuff.
<cilkay> No, don't rule it out.
<cilkay> Just don't make it the only thing on which to hang your hat.
<Fritz87> I might even run into trouble getting copies of that sort of information, I might have to go through one of my friends who works there and lives in the district
<cilkay> I don't see why anyone would get into trouble about revealing how public funds are spent.
<cilkay> s/should/would
<Fritz87> well, I mean it might be difficult to obtain, I don't think I'd get into trouble either
<cilkay> Fritz87: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html
<Fritz87> Thanks.
<Fritz87> Do you have your own site?
<cilkay> I do but it has nothing to do with this.
<cilkay> http://dinamis.com
<cilkay> And my blogging activities have been quite spotty.
<cilkay> I need to blog this whole experience at the school though.
<cilkay> I've been immersed in it for the last six weeks, though I've been a parent volunteer for longer.
<Fritz87> If I were to do some more research, could we correspond later via email?  Maybe in about 2 weeks after I've done a lot
<cilkay> sure
<cilkay> clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com
<Fritz87> thanks!
<cilkay> you're welcome
<cilkay> And your name and email so I know to expect it?
<Fritz87> fritz87 at gmail.com and my name is John Frederick
<cilkay> Nice to "meet" you.
<cilkay> Where are you? I'm in Toronto.
<Fritz87> New Jersey here, going to Rutgers in New Brunswick
<Fritz87> the school district in question is scotch-plains fanwood
<Fritz87> Nice to meet you too
<cilkay> Fritz87: There is a conference coming up in a couple of weeks in Cincinnati about open source in education. You might want to mention that too. I know it's the fallacy of appeal to popularity but it's one that many people seem to fall for.
<cilkay> http://www.k12openminds.org/
<cilkay> http://www.ghca.com/computers/
<Fritz87> okay thanks
<Fritz87> hi cilkay are you still there?
<cilkay> otp
<Fritz87> Edubuntu is now an add on for the standard ubuntu distro, correct? Does that mean it would work on ubuntu variants like fluxbuntu? Some older computers might function better on a more lightweight OS
<cilkay> Fritz87: Back. Some of the apps might require Gnome libraries but they don't require the Gnome desktop manager so it should work. Should be easy to test.
#edubuntu 2009-08-31
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning alkisg
<ace_suares> morning all
<alkisg> Good morning ace_suares
<highvoltage> morning ace_suares
<alkisg> Hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey alkisg!
<highvoltage> I missed the meeting on Friday, sorry about that
<alkisg> Fun, we answered 24 minutes after ace_suares said good morning, but on the exact second :)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<ace_suares> and on the exact same day and year! Aaaaaaaamzing!
<ace_suares> Aaaaaaamazing!
<highvoltage> yes what's the chances of that.
<alkisg> No big deal about the meeting... ace said he'd restructure the whole wiki and we said ok :)
<ace_suares> one in something!
<ace_suares> he basically yes, and flint announced sugar ppa and sbalneav said sabayon and the docs are coming along.
<nubae> highvoltage: I missed it too :-/
<nubae> funny how we tried to organise it and we miss it, heh
<highvoltage> nubae: sheesh, yes! I guess it happens sometimes
 * mhall119|work is reading stgraber's interview in full circle magazine
<LaserJock> anybody about?
<andv> hello LaserJock
<andv> :)
 * LaserJock is trying some funky web irc client
<andv> xD
<andv> LaserJock, how edubuntu developing is going?
<mhall119|work> LaserJock is back!
<LaserJock> well, sorta
<LaserJock> I don't have internet at home yet
<LaserJock> so I'm using a Windows computer at work at the moment
<highvoltage> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> just got in last night after a 1 week/ 3,500 mile drive
<highvoltage> how are you/
<LaserJock> tired!
<LaserJock> but my wife, pets, and "stuff" is in Massachusetts now
<highvoltage> did the lights all go down in massachusetts?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: don't think so
<highvoltage> (sorry stupid bee-gees joke)
<Lns> wb LaserJock !
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I have a commit to the edubuntu,karmic seed bzr branch
<LaserJock> highvoltage: but no way to upload it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber can do that right?
<highvoltage> stgraber: are you around/
<alkisg> Hey LaserJock! You'
<alkisg> ve been missed :)
<LaserJock> btw, my PhD got officially posted so \o/
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: you need irssi and a remote server for chatting during work hours
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I don't think I'll get to do that
<LaserJock> the Air Force is a bit picky about the computers
<mhall119|work> yet you're using a web-based IRC client
 * nubae congratulates LaserJock
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: on an "unsecure" network. I think they block a lot of ports, including ssh I think
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: alright then, get an Android phone
<mhall119|work> or do they make you work in a faraday cage?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> no
<nubae> yeah my work blocks everything except port 80, people come up with enthusiastic creative ways to get around it though
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> the idea really is that at work I should be working :-)
<mhall119|work> what?
<LaserJock> my hours aren't bad so I hope to work and work and play at home
<LaserJock> it's weird having a real job after 11 years of uni
<nubae> LaserJock: what are u doing as work exactly?
<LaserJock> nubae: if I told you ... I'd have to kill you
<LaserJock> :-)
<mhall119|work> well okay, but it had better be good
<LaserJock> the basic thing is that I'm looking at plasmas
<nubae> plasmas?
<LaserJock> I create plasmas in a vacumn chamber with a strong laser
<mhall119|work> weapon or propulsion?
 * nubae doesnt even know what that is :-)
<mhall119|work> nubae: lose electrons
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: detection of both basically
 * nubae visualises something Star Trekkie
<LaserJock> heh
<mhall119|work> nubae: it's far less interesting than that
<nubae> eject the plasma, she's gonna blow
<mhall119|work> visualize fire
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> basically you focus the laser beam down until it blows everything apart
<mhall119|work> hey, that's always fun
<LaserJock> and then I look to see how the atoms reform
<LaserJock> into interesting molecules
<nubae> well that does sound interesting the way u describe actually...
<LaserJock> anyway, it's Defense space stuff
<nubae> oh... against aliens... or illegal aliens?
<nubae> (grin)
<mhall119|work> mexicans is freakin lasers?
<LaserJock> I think the "threat" is more across the ocean to the east
<LaserJock> I mean, west
<mhall119|work> Texas?
<mhall119|work> oh, west
 * LaserJock is tired
<mhall119|work> oh, right, Texas?
<mhall119|work> I mean, I know they're secessionist and love their guns, but I don't really think we need lasers to deal with them
 * mhall119|work is in Florida
<ogra> so yu moved east to help defending your country against a thread from the west ?
<mhall119|work> ogra: maybe he knows something we don't?
<LaserJock> ogra: something like that ;-)
<ogra> hi btw
<nubae> iy might turn out to be effective though... could have some mind altering contingent
<mhall119|work> nubae: powerful lasers will definitely alter someone's mind
<LaserJock> ogra: hi
<ogra> good to see you back
<mhall119|work> it'll alter it right into a steaming pool of mush
<LaserJock> ogra: sorta, my brain is fried
<ogra> yeah, understandable
<LaserJock> I drove for ~ 15hr/day for 4 days
<mhall119|work> case in point
<nubae> heh... careful with those lasers ;-)
<ogra> i heard that
<ogra> so where are you based now ? boston ?
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: are you saying the Air Force couldn't figure out a faster way of traveling?
<LaserJock> well, outside of boston
<ogra> cool
<LaserJock> ogra: actually, I work about 1 mile from Lexington
<ogra> we can meet up if i'm in the lexington office
<nubae> Boston is nice... I lived there for 3 years
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: well, I don't officially work for the Air Force. I'm sure the cool people get better ways :-)
<LaserJock> so I moved from Reno, NV to Boston but work for a company in Utah :-)
<nubae> heh
<LaserJock> the paperwork has been overwhelming
<ogra> LaserJock, you are not by chance at that small lex. airforce base where mark uses to land ?
<LaserJock> ogra: probably
<nubae> u'll start using the term 'wicked' soon enough ;-)
<ogra> funny :)
<LaserJock> nubae: hehe, I've heard it a few times already
<nubae> and u'll have to paaak the caaah in the yaaahd
<Lns> LOL nubae
<LaserJock> I really hope I don't sound like that when I'm done
<ogra> nubae, in boaastn ?
 * Lns greets all btw
<nubae> The Aquarium there is pretty nice... though its probably nothing compared to places in California or Florida
 * ogra has seen the sydney Aquarium ... havent seen a better one yet
<LaserJock> I'm still just trying to find the grocery store, etc.
<LaserJock> but I bought a GPS unit for the car, which really helps
 * nubae loves Aquariums... must be about the most soothing experience known, right up there along side meditation
 * Lns didn't know nubae was into meditation too :)
 * mhall119|work is into seditation
<Lns> kind of related, though maybe a bit more dangerous in the long term ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, LaserJock, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-August/011286.html some packaging training ;)
#edubuntu 2009-09-01
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks for the link
#edubuntu 2009-09-02
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> holy cow, real internet!
<sbalneav> LaserJock!!!!
<sbalneav> WB
<LaserJock> I finally got internet
<LaserJock> after ~ 3 weeks of no internet on my linux machine
<sbalneav> Coolio.
<sbalneav> Want an update?
<sbalneav> How did the move go
<LaserJock> still sort of in progress
<LaserJock> wife, pets, and a car load of stuff is here
<LaserJock> but thursday the rest of our stuff arrives
<LaserJock> geeze
<LaserJock> I'm getting 24Mb/s down and 4Mb/s up
<sbalneav> You've got everything you love there, the rest is just stuff
<sbalneav> that's not bad.
<LaserJock> that's like 10x better than what my old internet was
<sbalneav> Cool!
<sbalneav> So, We'll expect 10 times the work out of you, right? BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
<sbalneav> Nah, you're working hard enough.
<sbalneav> So, we have a working sabayon
<LaserJock> yeah, stuff is crazy here
<LaserJock> yeah, I read something about that
<LaserJock> as in, really really working?
<sbalneav> http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/
<sbalneav> yep.
<sbalneav> Boots, edits profiles, applies them.
<sbalneav> I
<sbalneav> I've branched the edubuntu handbook, and started work on that.
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> brb, gotta set up wireless router
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvolt1ge> good morning alkisg!
<mhall119|work> morning
<nubae> hi mhall119|work
<nubae> mhall119|work: can I entice u to give up some of your free time on helping create some moodle courses here: linux-for-education.org... I've created 2 ubuntu specific ones already, and am on a third one... but it needs even more loving...
<mhall119|work> nubae: if I had free time to give I would
<nubae> I know the feeling... I have to try and get involvement somehow
<mhall119|work> what kind of courses are you looking for?
<nubae> each course takes about 5-10 minutes to create
<mhall119|work> nubae: my problem is that I'm too involved in too many things
<nubae> but anything from, how to install chrome on Ubuntu
<nubae> or how to get LTSP working on ubuntu
<nubae> how to set up LDAP with nfs on ubuntu
<nubae> there are tons and tons of courses that would be helpful
<nubae> I've created 2 really general ones to give u an example
<nubae> take a look
<mhall119|work> does it have to be Ubuntu related?
<nubae> the beautify one is actuallly really cool to follow
<nubae> not at all
<nubae> its everything Linux and edu
<mhall119|work> cause I know a lot of English teachers
<nubae> in fact... the project is hosted by Novel
<nubae> excellent
<nubae> that would be even better content
<nubae> take a look at the categories
<nubae> We are trying to make it the place to go to if u want a course of any kind in various languages even
<mhall119|work> I'll pass the link along to all my educator friends
<nubae> ok, if they need admin access... have the email me
<mhall119|work> I'll also pass it around my LoCo
<nubae> dvanassche @ gmail dot com or its on my web: nubae.com
<nubae> the cool thing is, we have this free space by Novell, a good looking moodle site, and tons of possibilities
<mhall119|work> do they need admin access to create courses?
<nubae> its a shame to let it just sit there
<nubae> to create a course yes
<nubae> to follow it no
<mhall119|work> ok
<nubae> otherwise it would be abused pretty badly by spammers
<mhall119|work> ubuntu-fl.org has a couple tutorials on it already, I'll see if I can get the author of them to make a moodle course from it
<mhall119|work> you should see about converting the Ubuntu Developer Week classes into moddle courses
<mhall119|work> have you talked to dholbach?
<mhall119|work> The Next link on one of the courses is pointing to http://nubae.selfip.com/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?id=1125
<mhall119|work> is that right?
<nubae> oh shit, yeah
<nubae> need to fix that
<nubae> no... thats cause I was working at home
<nubae> first and then uploaded
<nubae> what page is that on?
<mhall119|work> http://www.linux-for-education.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=1123
<nubae> shit... wonder how that happened
<mhall119|work> the Previous link points off-site too
<nubae> a lot of those courses are copied directly from open university
<nubae> whch has creative commons moodle courses
<mhall119|work> looks like most of the links go off-site actually
<nubae> yeah, the internal ones that have that structure... I guess I can just do a sed 's/nubae.selfip.com/linux-for-education/g' *
 * Ahmuck-Sr waves
<nubae> mhall119|work: thanks for finding that...
<mhall119|work> np
<mhall119|work> also, dholbach thinks it would be great turn the UDW classes into moddle courses, if someone has the time and initiative to do it
<nubae> where are they located?
<nubae> I might do it to get more people motivated to help
<nubae> it seems more content motivates people more :-/
<mhall119|work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek has the logs
<dgroos> Hi All,
<dgroos> I'm trying to re-install CmapTools into the chroot so as to run that program as a localapp.
<dgroos> I'm following the instructions I wrote at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GuiInstallLocalApp but... I can't do 1 thing that it says in the directions: "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ su $SUDO_USER"
<dgroos> It gives an authentication error, both when I sudo it and when I've sudo su -ed it.  Any idea?  Thanks.
<dgroos> I should say, the instruction I was trying to follow was the last line in step 3 of that page.
<sbalneav> Why not break it up a little more?
<sbalneav> sudo -i
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> su $SUDO_USER
<alkisg> dgroos: maybe you need to export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS as well?
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks, I try that then repeat that last line.
<dgroos> um... what do I type before the code you gave me, "sudo export"?
<alkisg> dgroos: first try it manually
<alkisg> I.e. echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS as the user,
<dgroos> OK "Command not found".
<alkisg> and then, while you're logged on as root, export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=<the user value here>
<alkisg> echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
<alkisg> that ^^ as *the user* gives you command not found?
<dgroos> when I typed, DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS it said, command not found.  When I typed, "echo DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS it said, DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS"
<alkisg> Don't forget the dollar there
<alkisg> (12:14:18 ÏÎ¼) alkisg: echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
<dgroos> right!
<alkisg> E.g. here's what I did to get an xterm from the chroot:
<alkisg> ok never mind go on ...
<dgroos> OK it typed nothing...
<sbalneav> Did you get "authentication error", or "unknown user"?
<dgroos> blank line.
<dgroos> no
<sbalneav> So if you do a:
<sbalneav> sudo -i
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> su $SUDO_USER
<sbalneav> you get an auth error?
 * alkisg wonders why he needs to run it as a user, and can't run it as root
 * sbalneav too
<dgroos> hmmm... I can't sudo
<sbalneav> So, the sudo's failing, right?
<dgroos>  I tried sudo -i and it wouldn't take my password.
<dgroos> right
<sbalneav> that's a different kettle of fish
<alkisg> dgroos: so if I download cmaptools, and get it to open a gui installer, you're ok?
<sbalneav> sudo cp /etc/passwd /etc/group /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<dgroos> ya know, I did all the stuff on this page in step 3 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GuiInstallLocalApp
<sbalneav> That's blantantly wrong, I think.
<dgroos> :(
<sbalneav> Have a look at your /etc/group
<sbalneav> is it a copy of your /etc/passwd?
<dgroos> alkisg: I'm trying to use a gui installer on the chroot as the root user, that's the trick.
<alkisg> dgroos: where can I download cmaptools?
<dgroos> sbalneav: I'll check...
<alkisg> Oooh... big one
<dgroos> alkisg: it's right here http://cmap.ihmc.us/download/ but you gotta sign up though it's free.  I've used this program for years on my own and with my students: it's awesome.
<alkisg> Yeah I know people also use it here - but I've never used it though
<alkisg> I think you don't need all this passwd stuff, you could run the installer as root.
<sbalneav> dgroos: is your /etc/group buggered up?
 * sbalneav shrugs
<dgroos> hm... since I did those things in step 3 on that page mentioned, I can't use gedit, it appears: "Gtk-WARNING **: cannont open display: :0
<dgroos> sbalneav: I'm working on keeping up--kinda slow...
<sbalneav> more /etc/group
<sbalneav> should look like:
<sbalneav> root:x:0:
<sbalneav> daemon:x:1:
<sbalneav> bin:x:2:
<sbalneav> etc.
<dgroos> OK  what deviation from pattern should I look for?
<sbalneav> What do you have at the top?  What's the first line?
<dgroos> just like you put for top 3 lines.
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> So sudo -i give you auth error.  What happens if you control-alt-f1 and try to log in as yourself on a text terminal?
<dgroos> if I control-alt-f2 I'll get a local terminal on the thin client--I'm working on the thin client--should I do that?
<sbalneav> No, you should do it on the server.
<sbalneav> Time for me to head home.
<dgroos> w/ f1 it says login incorrect--
<sbalneav> On the server?
<dgroos> sbalneav: thanks for your help!  take it easy...
<sbalneav> I wouldn't log out if I were you
<dgroos> (I'll nx into the server--don't have physical access...
<dgroos> ok
<sbalneav> if you've managed to muck up your auth somehow, if you log out you might not get in.
<dgroos> how do I get off the control-alt-f1 screen?
<sbalneav> control alt f7
<alkisg1> dgroos: I just downloaded and tried it
<sbalneav> ok, heading home.
<alkisg1> No need for any of the things you do with passwd, users etc
<dgroos> OK.
<sbalneav> back on tonight
<dgroos> adios
<alkisg1> Bye sbalneav
<dgroos> alkisg1: ??? no way!
<alkisg> dgroos: want a screenshot? :)
<dgroos> OK... I believe you... :)
<alkisg> 1) xhost +
<alkisg> 2) sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<alkisg> 3) export DISPLAY=:0
<alkisg> (I don't know if that's really needed, but anyway...)
<alkisg> 4) sh LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin
<alkisg> That's all, then I got the installer running graphically.
<dgroos> and so will it work as local app afterwards?
<alkisg> Well, it runs the installation in the chroot, so ...
<alkisg> Unless it has other problems (unsatisfied dependences or whatever) I don't see why not.
<dgroos> Man--if you can make it work on localapp so easily...
<dgroos> OK  If I can fix the hole I've dug myself into I will test it :)
<alkisg> Yeah export DISPLAY wasn't needed. So only 2 steps are needed, (1) xhost + (2) sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 sh LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin
<dgroos> Wow--I'll check it out.
<dgroos> alkisg: would you look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GuiInstallLocalApp step 3 and see where I might have messed up my computer?
<dgroos> The only way I deviated from that was I was still root (via sudo su) so the "sudo mount -t proc proc /opt/ltsp/i386/proc" probably was weird...
<dgroos> what happens when you are root and you use sudo?
<alkisg> I don't see anything too harmful. If you run step 3 twice without running step 5 inbetween, you'd put the "normal" passwd & groups into the chroot
<alkisg> But otherwise, it should be ok... don't do it again, though :)
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks.
<alkisg> dgroos: Also, do: sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386/root/.Xauthority
<dgroos> I can't sudo :(
<alkisg> Ah. Maybe you got things still mounted... Why don't you try rebooting?
<dgroos> OK -- I'm a little concerned with what sbalneav said, I might not be able to get back in... what do you think?
<alkisg> Well, if you aren't - don't you have a live cd handy?
<alkisg> There's nothing that you could fix now that you couldn't also fix with a live cd
<dgroos> I've got no physical access to room at this point... but could get it tomorrow.
<dgroos> I'll do a reboot--it would feel good :)
<alkisg> Hmmm... ok, then run: cat /proc/mounts
<alkisg> and upload it to pastebin
<dgroos> sure--what's the address of pastebin, again?
<alkisg> pastebot.ltsp.org
<dgroos> thanks.
<alkisg> Ah
<alkisg> No, thats for ltsp
<alkisg> I think it's http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ for ubuntu
<dgroos> of course the address popped up in firefox when I started to type the address... :)
<dgroos> first, here's a copy from my terminal--what I typed and how it responded when I messed things up--pretty short. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/264057
<ogra> alkisg, -bin
<alkisg> ogra, elaborate, please?
<alkisg> (1 o clock and 3 beers here... :-/)
<ogra> paste.ubuntu.com :)
<alkisg> Ah
<ogra> though the other one should redirect
<alkisg> Yeah both seem to work
<dgroos> and, here's the cat /proc/mounts: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/264059
<alkisg> (no redirection - ok I'll remember the short one)
<alkisg> dgroos: yeah you got /proc and /dev mounted twice
<alkisg> I don't know how would this screw things up. Reboot?
<dgroos> reboot it will be!
<dgroos> but, I can't sudo reboot :)
<alkisg> Can you open another tab in the terminal and try there?
<dgroos> I can use iLO I think but that will be a pretty harsh reboot... right
<alkisg> Or try from the gnome menu?
<dgroos> right, many ways... I'll try some.
<dgroos> hey! opening up a new tab worked--sudo works there but the prompt says: dgroos@gcos2:/opt/ltsp/i386$  interesting...
<alkisg> I'd say: sudo umount /proc   - but maybe a reboot would be safer... :)
<dgroos> can I unmount from there? w/out rebooting or is reboot best?  (took the words right out of my mouth :)
<dgroos> reboot it is...
<alkisg> That's too deep for me, I've only been windows-free for 14 months...
<dgroos> :)  You know, I've never really used windows in my last 19 years of being a computer user.  Sure, I've used one here and there for a session but nothing more--I've only used macs and now Ubuntu.
<dgroos> alkisg: Thanks!  rebooted, am at thin client and it rebooted and I was able to log.  Opened terminal and sudo -i works :)
<alkisg> Nice... now try the easy-installation-thing... "So only 2 steps are needed, (1) xhost + (2) sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 sh LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin"
<dgroos> I'll let you know :D
<alkisg> Where  LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin should be at /opt/ltsp/i386/LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin of course
<alkisg> ...and delete those commands from the wiki page! :-O
<dgroos> yeah...
<dgroos> :( I tried and get the Stack Trace errors...
<alkisg> You didn't see a GUI at all?
<dgroos> No
<alkisg> Paste the terminal output?
<dgroos> sure...
<alkisg> (all of it..)
<alkisg> Maybe you did "sudo xhost +" instead of just "xhost +" ?
<dgroos> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/264064
<alkisg> Ah, did you delete the root .Xauthority file that we said before?
<alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 sh LinuxCmapTools_v5.03_04-07-09.bin
<alkisg> oops
<alkisg> (12:49:35 ÏÎ¼) alkisg: dgroos: Also, do: sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386/root/.Xauthority
<dgroos> no
<alkisg> Delete that and retry
<dgroos> none of that...
<dgroos> ok and will retry...
<alkisg> (you created that with your previous script and didn't delete it afterwards)
<dgroos> right--I wonder any other stuff from that last session?  I retried and didn't work, error message at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/264069
<alkisg> Urm... can't think of anything right now. Anyway too late here, /me goes to bed...
<dgroos> :) Thanks for your help, again.
<alkisg> Bye!
#edubuntu 2009-09-03
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<alkisg> Good morning
<nubae|work> hey folks, Ive been tasked at work with finding a good local side http filter... u guys know of anything?
<asanchez> nubae|work, https://launchpad.net/gchildcare could be a good point
<asanchez> but I think its not functional nowadays
<mhall119|work> dansguardian does local http filtering
<mhall119|work> you'll need to install a proxy
<mhall119|work> looks like some work is being done here too: https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, how would that work... I mean in this case that kids are all getting laptops, and when they are outside school their content needs to be filtered too
<nubae|work> so could one install a local dansguardian for this purpose?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nubae|work> hi sbalneav
<nubae|work> do u know of a good way to filter local content (ie, no server side proxy based filtering a la dansguardian?
<sbalneav> Well, apart from the fact that I'm morally opposed to the idea of filtering, I'd say install dansguardian locally, and then set up transparent proxying.
<sbalneav> Or are by local you referring to file:// urls?
<mhall119|work> nubae|work: dansguardian and a proxy server would both be running on their laptops
<mhall119|work> point system and FF proxy settings to the local proxy server port, hook the proxy in with dansguardian (tutorials on this available online), and you're good to go
<sbalneav> Usually, if you don't want someone to get around the proxy, you have to use transparent proxying with iptables redirects.
<mhall119|work> iptables is the best way to go
<mhall119|work> you can have iptables send traffic through the local proxy and dansguardian
<mhall119|work> transparently
<sbalneav> Of course, if the kid's smart enough, they can set a forwarder on a non-standard port to an external proxy... :)
<mhall119|work> nubae|work: http://linux.com/archive/feature/113733
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: iptables can route all traffic through the transparent proxy
<nubae|work> sbalneav, I've done this before but usually for a server side environment
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: What, forward EVERY port not in use otherwise through the proxy?
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, thanks, I'll give it a go
<nubae|work> sbalneav, actually its just forward all traffic to port 80
<nubae|work> and/or port 443
<sbalneav> yeah
<nubae|work> works quite well
<nubae|work> used that setup at the school I worked at
<sbalneav> so what happens if the kid starts up an ssh forwarder from the local box to an external proxy on port 8080, say?
<nubae|work> but here at guadalinex... government is giving laptops to all the kids, and they dont wanna be caught by the press giving access to dangerous material when the kids go home
<nubae|work> traffic goes to port 80
<nubae|work> iptables reroutes everything
<sbalneav> No, traffic does NOT always go to port 80
<nubae|work> on the server
<nubae|work> u force it to with iptables
<nubae|work> but this might not work locally
<nubae|work> agreed
<mhall119|work> ssh port forwarding still goes through the kernel, yes?  so those packets still get trapped by iptables, yes?
<sbalneav> no
<mhall119|work> no?
<mhall119|work> no on which?
<sbalneav> You're only forwarding port 80
<sbalneav> What happens if the kid sets up a forwarder to, say, port 6566
<nubae|work> sorry.. totally explainedn it wrong... here is the rule: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -i $INTIF -s 192.168.0.0/24 --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-port 8080
<nubae|work> so everything from 80 goes to 8080 which is dansguardian
<sbalneav> Sure.
<nubae|work> it wont work
<nubae|work> if dansguardian is not running, no net access
<nubae|work> so it must go through
<sbalneav> ssh -D 9999 my.home.box
<sbalneav> set ff proxy to go to port 999
<sbalneav> http:redtube.com
<sbalneav> done
<nubae|work> nope
<mhall119|work> iptables won't let the traffic through
<nubae|work> right
<sbalneav> How so?  Traffic's not going over 80
<mhall119|work> only dansguardian packets are allowed out
<sbalneav> it's going over 9999
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: you block all outbound traffic from the filtered user
<sbalneav> ah, well if you're going to do that, then fine.
<mhall119|work> the user can _only_ access the local dansguardian
<mhall119|work> and _only_ dansguardian can access the rest of the internet
<sbalneav> But that's going to break other things you might want to do.
<mhall119|work> such as?
<sbalneav> Videoconferencing, f'rinstance
<nubae|work> right thats what dansguardian does... well... usually linked to squid
<nubae|work> well u make a special rule for that
<sbalneav> sure.
<nubae|work> like for port 443
<nubae|work> and such
<sbalneav> and if you're not running videoconferencing, then that's an open port
<sbalneav> ssh -D $VIDEOCONFERENCEPORT myexternalhost
<nubae|work> right... but still since its not coming from port 80
<nubae|work> dansguardian ignores it
<nubae|work> as  webpage
<sbalneav> dansguardian doesn't enter into it if they're running their own proxy via ssh
<mhall119|work> but iptables does enter into it
<sbalneav> but we just said: it's an open port
<nubae|work> here is a diagram: http://dansguardian.org/?page=dgflow
<mhall119|work> you can probably open it only for specific destinations
<mhall119|work> so, you can videoconference with skype, but not my.home.box
<sbalneav> Sure.  And when skype changes their IP addresses on you, then you've got 20,000 laptops borked.
<nubae|work> yeah its only vallid for the network u set in iptables I guess
<nubae|work> ah, no one said it was perfect :-)
<mhall119|work> or require that videoconferencing go through the proxy just like web traffic
<nubae|work> yeah thats whats done with 443 content
<nubae|work> send it through the filter
<sbalneav> But whatever.  Personally, I favour education, and a sound policy with clear consequences.  But carry on.  :)
<mhall119|work> I agree
<nubae|work> sbalneav, I agree wholeheartedly
<mhall119|work> to a point
<nubae|work> but this is work...
<nubae|work> I'm forced to do this
<sbalneav> Sure.
<mhall119|work> my 5 and 4 year old's computer has filtering, not because I don't trust them, but because I don't trust the internet
<sbalneav> Best web filter I ever installed was the one I put in my kids mind. :)
<mhall119|work> they won't be browsing for porn, but that doesn't mean they won't run across it
<nubae|work> sbalneav, mhall119|work 's view applies there though still
<nubae|work> anyway, mhall119|work where did u see that doc...? on dansguardian's pages there is a link
<nubae|work> but its broken
<nubae|work> oh wait, u pasted above
<nubae|work> never mind
<mhall119|work> http://dansguardian.org/?page=documentation there's several other HOWTOs here too
<mhall119|work> I'm going to work on improviding the dansguardian package for Qimo 2, so if have any ideas for making it easier/better let me know
<mhall119|work> might make a dansguardian-local-filter metapackage that depends on a proxy and does the configuration during install
<sbalneav> nubae|work: Does work, BTW, have a good "introduction to the internet" course for the kids, that talks about the things they might encounter, along with a clear enunciation of the school's policy and outlining of the consequences, together with a brocure/manual for the parents that needs signing off?
<sbalneav> My school didn't :(
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, u could add a section to linux-for-education.org for Qimo
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: I'd love to see a school capabale of doing that accurately and honestly
<mhall119|work> nubae|work: s/could/should/
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, well, I have to document everything here at work, though it will be in Spanish :-)
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, u're right.... you SHOULD add a section for qimo
<mhall119|work> google translates
<nubae|work> even if it includes just one course
<nubae|work> might entice others to add to it
<mhall119|work> nubae|work: I've passed on your request to #ubuntu-us-fl, and my wife is going to pass it along to her English teacher friends
<sbalneav> Well, and that's currently a problem.  I appreciate that the filtering's needed.  The problem comes in that no matter WHAT you do, they'll be a way around it.  You'll forget an iptables rule.  dansguardian will have a bug.  Something.  Then it blows up into a huge mess in the media, like it did in my division, because they didn't have the POLICY and EDUCATION bit in there, and were relying solely on the technology to do it right.  
<nubae|work> sbalneav, thats a very good point... can u point me to that policy doc?
 * nubae|work tries to keep his ass covered
<sbalneav> No, that was the problem: they didn't HAVE one.
<mhall119|work> nobody I know of HAS one
<nubae|work> right, but u said u have one now that u showed to your kid, no?
<sbalneav> However, there *are* some good docs out there.  We've got one at work.
<mhall119|work> at least, not a good one
<sbalneav> nubae|work: No, I laid out my *OWN* policy to my kids :)
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, u should see the links are now fixed btw
<nubae|work> no more pointing to nubae.selfip :p
<mhall119|work> my college's internet use policy states that _all_ downloads of music and video from the internet is illegal
<mhall119|work> nubae|work: cool
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Even CC music?
<sbalneav> i.e. jamendo, etc?
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: those writing the policy were evidently unaware
<mhall119|work> that's the problem
<mhall119|work> the information is either not enough, or too generalized
<nubae|work> well, they probably figured... open source music doesnt exist
<nubae|work> therefore its all illegal since its all copyrighted
<mhall119|work> I'm not sure they'd even recognize an Ubuntu torrent as legal
<sbalneav> Might be interesting if edubuntu actually wrote *UP* some boilerplate policy's for schools to consider/modify for their own use.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: fabulous idea
<mhall119|work> now you just have to find someone with enough time to do it
<nubae|work> thats like a teacher I overheard in a school once telling her students... now children.... what does this symbol mean (c) ?
<sbalneav> And, interestingly enough, I work with lawyers who owe me favours.
<nubae|work> it means dont touch... illlegal she said sternly
<mhall119|work> what?!?
<nubae|work> to which I couldn't resist interjecting
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Dude, I *never* suggest something should get done that I'm not willing to take on myself.
<sbalneav> I'll have a look at it.
<nubae|work> and she said defensively... I know... but they won't understand if I explain it another way
<nubae|work> I was like...
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: put up a wiki page and we can start with a list of topics to cover, and an outline
<sbalneav> mhall119|work++
<mhall119|work> probably the best thing to start with is defining an audience, and what we want to convey to them
<mhall119|work> ie, do we want/need to discuss the licensing issues that make some content legal and others not
<mhall119|work> or, do we just want to say they they are responsible for obtaining permission to download any content so that it is legal
<sbalneav> For a boilerplate, that would be best.
<mhall119|work> okay, so wiki sections for Audience, Intent of Message, and then list topics to cover
<sbalneav> A school may decide even if something's LEGAL to download (i.e. CC licenced music) they don't WANT the kid to do it, as it may fill up the hard disk, etc.
<mhall119|work> from there we can pick which topics we want and start an outline
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: I think any technical issues like that are best left to individual institutions
<sbalneav> Right.
<sbalneav> And we should note that in the boilerplate.
<mhall119|work> the network/computer admins are usually smart enough to define those at leastt
<sbalneav> i.e. (in red) "Insert your schools' techinal policy on media here"
<mhall119|work> Ideally, I'd like this to be something I can included with the computers I give away, which aren't necessarily associated with a school
<mhall119|work> many charities might like that
<sbalneav> Even if we simply DEFINE the things they should THINK about in a policy, that'd be a help.  I.e. content filtering, consequences of bypassing controls, licensed media, installing non-school supplied programs, etc.
<sbalneav> Sure.
<nubae|work> so what would u call that kind of document?
<sbalneav> Well, a policy template, or a policy checklist, one supposes.
<mhall119|work> End User Licensing Agreement
<nubae|work> hehehe (lol)
<nubae|work> but would it be a Usage policy Agreement?
<mhall119|work> that's a sure fire way to make sure nobody ever reads it, or follows it
<nubae|work> hehe... I can see it already... we're gonna get all parents to sign the UPA
<nubae|work> well, we can force parents to read the thing if they want their kids to use the computer on the net at home
<mhall119|work> not a bad idea, really, make the parents agree that they are ultimately responsible for their kid's activities
<nubae|work> so... computer detects its on a nonschool network, up comes the policy
<nubae|work> and it stays there for a reasonable amount of time, + scroll down they must to hit accept
<nubae|work> even force it to scroll down real slow
<mhall119|work> we already have a liability waiver we make parents sign when we give out computers
<nubae|work> so like it scrolls slow enough that its more boring not to read it, than to wait
<nubae|work> sorry, than to pay attention to it
<mhall119|work> nah, just make it a precondition to giving them the computer in the first place
<mhall119|work> that's how I do it
<sbalneav> This sort of thing's important, IMHO, since a well written policy can/should cover off instances where the technology fails for one reason or another.
<sbalneav> Hm
<mhall119|work> You don't want to take responsibility for what your kid does on this computer?  Fine, they don't get it
<sbalneav> I'm working on revamping the handbook, wonder if it should be a section in that.
<nubae|work> mhall119|work, try that with 750,000 netbooks ;-)
 * nubae|work works on Guadalinex-edu used by 3500+ schools
<nubae|work> and we are currently giving, courtesy of our friendly government a laptop to every child in Andalucia (our autonomous region)
<nubae|work> hence the filter stuff
<nubae|work> but I like the idea of a policy... it should indeed be there, at least so our asses are covered, should the parents/kids bypass whatever system is put in place for content filtering at home
<nubae|work> in other words, the parents should be able to easily read it should they want to
<Ahmuck> nubae|work: ur doing filtering ?
<Ahmuck> i'm looking for a good filtering solution
<nubae|work> Ahmuck, right now I'm doing filtering yes
<nubae|work> if I dont find a good filter, I'll pick up willowng (a discarded python project) and work on that
<nubae|work> in other words, if the local dansguardian/squid method doesnt work
<Ahmuck> dansguardian is a pay product iirc ?
<mhall119|work> nope
<mhall119|work> they may offer a pay proxy service, but the software itself it free
<Ahmuck> hi Svenstaro
<Svenstaro> Heyo
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: so without the proxy service, how does that work ?
<nubae|work> Ahmuck, squid = proxy
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: you run the proxy locally
<nubae|work> squid = free
<Ahmuck> hrm, ok
<nubae|work> or what mhall119|work said
<nubae|work> (grin)
<Ahmuck> yes, but doesn't dansguardian offer a "black list" ?
<nubae|work> sure, u can use tht
<nubae|work> that
<nubae|work> that part is free
<Svenstaro> I'm not sure what you guys are talking about but if you want to black list sites per topic automatically, I can recommend using opendns
<ogra> its free as well, dansguardian itself has a weird license that makes it undistributable though
<ogra> but you can use it
<Ahmuck> Svenstaro: i'm using opendns and it'll never work for an edu system
<ogra> ugh, opendns
<Svenstaro> Uh, whats wrong?
<Ahmuck> well, bing for one is not allowed
<Svenstaro> That is a good thing
<ogra> it breaks the dns protocol
<Ahmuck> but there are plenty of ways to work around it
<Svenstaro> So what else doesnt work?
<nubae|work> also... what happens to www.wellknowndomain.com/subfolder/offensivematerial?
<nubae|work> u block all of wellknowndomain?
<Svenstaro> I don't about the OpenDNS policy there
<Svenstaro> It's just a DNS service after all
<nubae|work> well, its a reason why its not a good solution... u cant block subfolders, or if u do, u end up blocking whole domains (imagine blocking all of yahoo, becuase there are offensive pages on it somewhere
<Ahmuck> deviantart is one of the blocked domains
<Ahmuck> deviantart has some good art, and some "off color" art as well
<Ahmuck> photos, etc.
<nubae|work> yeah they have to make a tradeoff... a bad one
<nubae|work> if it contains just a little bad stuff... block it
<nubae|work> anyway... think the way to go is what mhall119|work posted Ahmuck:-
<Ahmuck> google images is another one
<Ahmuck> which is why i think bing is blocked
<Ahmuck> and if you've used bing, it's a resonable search enging
<nubae|work> https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
<nubae|work> until either gchildcare or willowng is ready
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: endian firewall, ipcop, and smoothwall do transparent proxies and have blocking capabilites
<Svenstaro> Which option blocks deviantart?
<Svenstaro> I don't mind Yahoo being blocked though
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: I'll add them to my list
<Ahmuck> opendns blocks deviantart
<Svenstaro> No, which option? Adult?
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: do they do content-based filtering?
<Ahmuck> yes, based on blacklists
<nubae|work> but blacklists of whole domains
<Ahmuck> they have squid built in
<Ahmuck> so i put them between me and the inet
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: dansguardian does content-inspection
<mhall119|work> so www.wellknowndomain.com/subfolder/offensivematerial will be blocked
<nubae|work> squid built in? how does that work.. u need a local cache, not a remote one
<mhall119|work> even if all of www.wellknowndomain.com isn't
<Ahmuck> http://www.copfilter.org/
<Ahmuck> squid is a part of ipcop upon installation
<nubae|work> ah ok
<nubae|work> I misunderstood, thought u meant it was part of opendns
<Ahmuck> iirc
<Svenstaro> Can you recommend copfilteR?
<Svenstaro> I'm using IPcop anyway
<Svenstaro> Thought copfilter did virus stuff only
<Ahmuck> if you have the processor and the memory
<Ahmuck> copfilter takes a lot of memory
<Ahmuck> cause it's looking at everyting
<Svenstaro> I know
<Ahmuck> u might consider endian.  these are already built in
<Svenstaro> A 2ghz something with 2GB should be ok
<Ahmuck> however, i was never able to get endian working
<Svenstaro> What's endian?
<Svenstaro> I really want to keep using IPCOP :)
<Ahmuck> a word of warning, i put it on an older machine and decided to purge it, ended up having to re-build my ipcop machine.  so you'll want to save a configuration to disk before you change to copfilter
<Ahmuck> endian is a branch from ipcop
<Ahmuck> smoothwall --> ipcop --> endian
<Ahmuck> http://www.endian.com/en/community/
<Ahmuck> ipcop is a branch off of smoothwall
<Svenstaro> Ohh
<Svenstaro> Is IPCop sucky now and I didn't notice or why did they branch it?
<Svenstaro> Ugh, endian has "commercial" written all over it. I don't mind commercial or proprietary stuff, but when it jumps into your face and tries to rip your eyeballs out, that's usually a bad sign.
<nubae|work> shorewall rocks...
<nubae|work> or rocked...
<nubae|work> now just use ufw
<Svenstaro> ufw?
<mhall119|work> uncomplicated firewall
<Svenstaro> Isn't that a desktop firewall?
<sbalneav> So, if anyone's interested in some "do-it-yourself" work, as my "new" role as sabayon-upstream developer, I've been working on adding one of our most desired features: profile application by group.
<sbalneav> SHould you be interested in following the action/hilarity/blundering, my git repo's at:
<sbalneav> http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/tree/master
<Ahmuck> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo=393885992&colorNo=-1&pr=B&showbleed=false&tab=1&Zoom=1
<Ahmuck> sysadmin day - one day is not enough !
<Ahmuck> endian has all the "stuff" added in.  they started out as community and then branched the community to commercial/community
<nubae|work> Svenstaro, what is a desktop firewall?
<Ahmuck> smoothwall is the same, commercial/community
<Svenstaro> Somethign that is not a server firewall, with GUI and stuff like that
<nubae|work> surely if it runs as a daemon there is no distinction
<nubae|work> then no
<Ahmuck> ipcop grew out of smoothwall's decision to take it commercial
<nubae|work> but it does have a gui for it if u want to use it
<nubae|work> there is no such thing as a desktop firewall though
<nubae|work> that would imply it only ran with a gui, and couldnt run in the background
 * nubae|work notes himself becoming nitpicky... :-)
 * ogra whacks nubae|work for being so german today :P
<ogra> ufw is just a frontend to the kernels firewalling thats supposed to improve usability ...
<ogra> i.e.: ufw enable masquerading from eth0 to eth1
<nubae|work> isss veeery niiice
<nubae|work> :-)
<ogra> would at some point enable everything thats necessary to have masquerading between the two interfaces ... no hoops to jump thought no complicated syntax
<ogra> its not there yet, it does a lot already but not everything
<ogra> (especially not masqeurading :P )
<ogra> what Svenstaro was pointing to was gufw ... which is the gui for ufw ...
<Svenstaro> I see
<Ahmuck> masqeurading as in a different mac address ?
<ogra> but that calls the ufw commands in the backend
<Svenstaro> I usually do masquerading and interface forwarding by hand so that might come in handy
<ogra> right, gufw will have something like the "internet connection sharing" checkbox in windows at some point ...
<ogra> and the cmdline variant should be as easy
<Svenstaro> "at some point"? It's extremely trivial to do
<ogra> its trivial to do it somehow ... the devs want to do it perfect ;)
<Svenstaro> Set source and end interface and enable IP forward and that's it
 * nubae|work thought it already had that
<Ahmuck> it does
<Svenstaro> Anyhow, I wanted to ask, how is Edubuntu currently? I went away for a bit because I was both busy and I wanted to wait until you had sorted out the issues that somehow we couldn't agree on.
<ogra> not in the way its supposed to be in the end, but yes, you can already enable masquerading easier than hacking in iptables rules
<ogra> edubuntu is just coming to life again lately after being unmaintained for quite some time ... LaserJock, stgrabe and highvoltage made some effort to get up the intrest again
<ogra> though apparently nobody tested the images for todays alpha5 release
<highvoltage> ogra: that's because our seeds aren't right yet
<ogra> ah
<highvoltage> ogra: LaserJock tried to get them right in time but it didn't work out
<ogra> sad ... but there is always A6
<nubae|work> lol
<highvoltage> ogra: it's going to be very tight
<nubae|work> hmm.. shouldnt be loling....
<ogra> highvoltage, well, its your first release after the reorganization ...
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought that the full install disc should have waited for karmic+1, but the overwhelming response was that edubuntu is useless as an add-on disc and that we should go for broke
<ogra> well, up to you guys :)
<ogra> i think getting enough testers will be hard with DVD size ... but you'll see
<nubae|work> oh wow, I didnt know it was going to be a distro again
<highvoltage> ogra: I think it would be really cool if we can pull it off. I trust LaserJock and he got the seeds close to being sorted out, I think we can make it for the 6th alpha.
 * nubae|work gets enthusiastic
<ogra> highvoltage, well, you have to
<Ahmuck> ogra, there's been a lot of people involved
<highvoltage> ogra: it was hard getting testers with a 300MB iso even
<ogra> yes
<ogra> Ahmuck, will they help testing regulary if they have to do a 6h download ?
<nubae|work> ogra?
<ogra> DVDs are quite different
<highvoltage> well even with my slow bandwidth rsync is fast
<nubae|work> rsync?
<ogra> even the ubuntu DVDs are usually released later because they are so big
<Ahmuck> i don't mind testing
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: we'll take you up on that
<nubae|work> or zsync
<ogra> heh :)
<nubae|work> hey, me too...
<ogra> nubae|work, yeah, we switched everything to zsync in karmic
<nubae|work> btw... right now guadalinex is based on ubuntu...
<highvoltage> nice, I like zsync
<ogra> it always was
<Ahmuck> but even so, i think you devalue the community by stating a select group of users are the reason edubuntu is coming alive again.
<nubae|work> but it could be based on edubuntu
<ogra> indeed
<nubae|work> ogra, u talking to me?
<ogra> yes
<nubae|work> well it wasnt always no
<ogra> sure
<nubae|work> it was based on debian first
<highvoltage> nubae|work: at the last uds they said they would use straight edubuntu if we can solve their menu problems, which is kind of done
<ogra> huh ?
<nubae|work> server version still is actually
 * ogra wonders what he did in sevilla the last years then 
<nubae|work> yup... then it was based Guadalinex... which is not the same as guadalinex-edu
<nubae|work> this was in 2003
<nubae|work> first year only
<ogra> oh, 2003
<ogra> indeed there was no ubuntu back then :)
<nubae|work> :p
<nubae|work> proof!!
<nubae|work> lol
<ogra> since i was involved in edu in ubuntu i was always working with these guys ...
<ogra> i dont know about the time before my time
<ogra> gosh am i ignorant :P
<nubae|work> anyway, guadalinex itself is pretty shitty
<nubae|work> and guadalinex-edu is supposed to be based on it
<nubae|work> but its not
<nubae|work> its based on ubuntu direct
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i know the problem
<ogra> but they improved
<nubae|work> yeah, politicians like to take pictures every once in a while with guadalinex
<ogra> it used to be the case that they took the released version and trew stuff and hacks on top
<nubae|work> but I think other than the discs they use in the pictures
<nubae|work> its unused
<ogra> *threw
<nubae|work> yeah
<ogra> they synced up their releases
<nubae|work> problem of any distro based on a distro
<nubae|work> yep, smartest move ever
<ogra> so they can do their work in ubuntu instead of on top
<nubae|work> also, somehow it makes them upstream a little more
<nubae|work> though very little
<ogra> well, that was part of my work to convince them ...
<nubae|work> well then u did a good job ;-)
<ogra> now that you are there, move forward and get them to be upstream edubuntu ;)
<ogra> and everyone wins :)
<nubae|work> now we are contemplating switching server to ubuntu server
<ogra> cool
<nubae|work> debian server that is
<ogra> the cloud stuff must be very intresting for a project like guadalinex
<nubae|work> or just plain debian even
<nubae|work> gosh...
<nubae|work> well, deployment is a nightmare...
<nubae|work> gadi's sbs might be a solution
<nubae|work> we'll see
<ogra> sbs ?
<nubae|work> the wireless usb stick that is kinda LTSP
<nubae|work> :-)
<ogra> ah, that, yeah
<ogra> he showed me one two years ago
<ogra> though it was still in development
<nubae|work> it actually fits the profile here quite well, now that notebooks and wireless networks are the new trend
<ogra> yup
<nubae|work> so yeah edubuntu becoming a distro again sounds interesting... if guadalinex-edu become an offspring... that would give it some real traction
<dgroos> Minor miracle here: I successfully got CmapTools to initiate a graphical install in the chroot.
<dgroos> actually, I'm in process and it is asking where to install it.
<dgroos> Where is a good place to install the folder containing all the files for the application when you are going to use it as a localapp?
<dgroos> In otherwords, in which directory in the chroot do you install applications when they will be localapps?
<dgroos> "For the record..." it appears that the Firefox 3.5.2 folder is installed in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib (or from the chroot perspective: /usr/lib).  I'll try there.
#edubuntu 2009-09-04
<sbalneav> Evening LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<LaserJock> today, I believe, we built our first real Edubuntu DVD
 * sbalneav capers about wildly
<sbalneav> And I'm applying group profiles
<sbalneav> A red letter day.
<sbalneav> Where can I download it?
<mhall1191> LaserJock: where can I get the ISO?
<LaserJock> sorry, had to take the dog for a walk
<LaserJock> mhall1191, sbalneav : http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/ is the URL
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how working it is right now
<LaserJock> but it *should* be building from our seed
<mhall1191> I was gonna ask for a torrent file, but I guess it won't do a whole lot of good
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> once you download it the first time you can rsync it though
 * mhall1191 needs more disk space in order to download it
<mhall1191> I also need to go buy some DVD-Rs
<mhall1191> and hijack my wife's computer, as mine doesn't have a burner
 * sbalneav hugs LaserJock
 * mhall1191 makes a list
<mhall1191> what is the uninstallable packages report?
<LaserJock> mhall1191: I'm not sure I would bother burning it if you don't have to
<mhall1191> LaserJock: then how would I test it?
<LaserJock> mhall1191: testing via virtualbox/kvm/vmware is probably best
<mhall1191> again with the lack of disk space
<LaserJock> this first builds are going to be pretty throw-away
<mhall1191> it is a Live DVD, or just installer?
<LaserJock> should be Live
<mhall1191> cool
<LaserJock> just like Ubuntu's DVD
 * mhall1191 didn't know what Ubuntu's DVDs were
<LaserJock> ah
<mhall1191> I've only ever played with CDs
<LaserJock> well, they basically like combining the Desktop and Alternate CDs
<LaserJock> so you can do either live or old-school installer
<mhall1191> cool
<LaserJock> for Ubuntu the Live part is pretty much exactly the same as the Ubuntu Desktop CD
<LaserJock> for us, since we don't already have a Live CD, I can basically make the Live part as be anything we want
<LaserJock> gotta run and take a shower, bbiab
<sbalneav> I DID IT!!!
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: what?
<sbalneav> I can't *BELEIVE* it
<sbalneav> I added group apply to Sabayon!
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> Amazing
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<sbalneav> Hey HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi
<alkisg> Good morning
<wima> does anyone how to disable the 'restart required' dialog after a kernel update?
<wima> It seems that every user at login gets a dialog to restart the system if a package update requires so.
<wima> On an LTSP system, this is of course not very useful
<ogra> wima, it should go away if you actually did a restart
<wima> i know
<ogra> simple reciepe, dont do maintenance during worktime ;)
<wima> but i cannot restart the system now. it is in use
<wima> it is alwys worktime here :)
<ogra> there is likely some file under /var/lib/update-notifier/
<ogra> or in user.d in that dir
<wima> i enabled automatic security updates. That was probably not a good isea
<wima> thanks. I'll have a look
<ogra> i think there is a way to adjust when they actually run
<ogra> so you could let them run at night
<wima> is it safe to just remove update-notifier? Is displaying this dialog the only thing it does?
<ogra> no, leave it alone
<ogra> it does all kinds of stuff
<wima> ok
<wima> editing /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required should do the trick...
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck-Sr> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> So, Laser's pulled a Magic Rabbit out of an orifice, and we've got dvd images now.
<sbalneav> Wooot
<Lns> Hi all
<HedgeMage> hi
<sbalneav> Hello
<Lns> meeting in ~1hr?
<Lns> is that correct?
<Lns> Hi HedgeMage, scottie!
<HedgeMage> Don't ask me, I don't keep track of meetings any more.
<Lns> lol
 * Lns notices the #edubuntu meetings are rarely on the ubuntu fridge calendar
<sbalneav> I'm not sure.
<sbalneav> I'll be here, anyay
<Lns> coolio
<Lns> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you around?
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<alkisg> Woah, even nubae|work is here... this meeting will have the most participants ever :)
<Lns> alkisg, what time is the meeting?
<alkisg> Lns: I have no idea, I think you're the only one knowing about it :)
<Lns> that's pretty sad!
<Lns> t-14min
<Lns> "next meeting a week from now: Fri Sept 4, 17:00 UTC"
<LaserJock> there's a meeting?
<alkisg> Lns, see? ^^^ :D
<alkisg> Ummm we need to start writing an agenta... !
<Lns> LOL...maybe i should just give you all access to my calendar through webdav and keep you all in line =p
<LaserJock> an email the day of the meeting would probably suffice
<LaserJock> or ... regular meetings times also are a big help
<Lns> yeah that would probably be good :)
<Lns> us humanoids are easy to train with repetition and structure
<alkisg> There's a very silent "translations meeting" in #ubuntu-meeting now...
<Lns> who scheduled the meeting?
<ace_suares1> YO
<ace_suares1> was at the beach, missed the meeting, also didn't put the meeting on the wiki or in the fridge, the fridge won't take my meeting updates anyway, next meeting a week from now, Fri 11 sep 17:00 UTC !
<ace_suares1> :-)
<nubae> what meeting?
<nubae> I've been in here the whole time, and haven't seen or heard anything
<alkisg> nubae: we pinged you :)
<alkisg> (07:37:06 Î¼Î¼) alkisg: Woah, even nubae|work is here... this meeting will have the most participants ever :)
<nubae> hmmm... ok :-/
<nubae> shit I must have been doing something else
<nubae> I have got to get my act together and get to these meetings...
<nubae> alkisg: btw,,, if u wanna see a presentation of how the local linux distro came into being and the impact it had on schools (maybe interesting to you dunno): http://speeches.ofset.org/jrfernandez/2009/ginebra_glx/
<nubae> u need to hit space var ro make it go to next pages
<nubae> clicking wouldnt work for me
<ace_suares1> nubae the meeting would be in ubuntu-meeting anyway.
<Lns> nubae, i mentioned pyclic but since you weren't there.... ;)
<alkisg> nubae: sure I wanted to ask you about something like this, I wanna try and convince the ministry here to create/distibute a greek edu ubuntu remix...
<nubae> yeah mia culpa
<nubae> alkisg: well there is some amo... maybe
<nubae> so the next meeting is next Friday... what time exactly?
<Lns> same bat time, same bat chan?
<ace_suares1> well SOMEONE needs to put in in Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting and also in the fridge. I propose we do regular weekly meetings so it's not that you need to wait 2 motnhs for the next one
<ace_suares1> I know I lost a LOT of momentum waiting for a meeting that turned out to be well  hmm not a meeting since only sbalneav from the team was there. booh (but hurray for sbalneav)
<alkisg> ace_suares1: laserjock was there
<alkisg> He talked about the new dvd edubuntu release
<ace_suares1> not last meeting ( I mean last week, not 4 hrs ago)
<alkisg> Ah ok
<ace_suares1> alkisg: I'd like that there would be a 'political' working group somewhere to help us convincing ministeries. Our Education Minister is totally not interested...
<nubae> well, I didn't know there was a meeting to be honest... it wasnt sent to mailing list this time was it?
<alkisg> Yeah that would be nice... here there are just a few people interested, and I hope we can climb though them to the upper levels ;)
<ace_suares1> wow I only have to wait 5 hrs for the dvd to download! Hope it doesn't become a new build halfway through :-(
<ace_suares1> but i guess the rsync will help me.
<nubae> ace_suares1: I recommend u use rsync
<nubae> or zsync... think thats active now in karmic downloads
<ace_suares1> yeah nubae there are files qith zsync at the end, what do I do with thart?
<ace_suares1> qith = with, thart=that
<ace_suares1> should i NOT download the full iso first, but start with the zsync file ?
<nubae> look for a zsync howto
<ace_suares1> nubae thanks! I will definately do that some time!
<ace_suares1> meanwhile...
<nubae> and then write a course for it at linux-for-education.org :-)
<ace_suares1> so I am aske dto test a dvd, and in order to do that, I do haver to first find a manual for zasync, and then write a moodle course for some site that is not edubuntu.org? Hmm
<ace_suares1> dont know if I am motivated!
<nubae> linux-for-education.org is related to ALL edu linux
<nubae> and already contains 2 specific ed/ubuntu courses
<ace_suares1> that doesnt really answer my question if I first should d/l the iso or not! Would be bad if I later discovered that that was a waste of time!
<nubae> as far as I know its the only place u can find on how to set up your desktop to have a whole set of nice working apps for your edubuntu setup
<nubae> why would it be a waste of time?
<nubae> u learn zsync, and u download latest edubuntu image...
<nubae> its hardly wasting time
<ace_suares1> I started downloading the iso. Should I abort that and use zsync or can i use zsync later on that donwloaded iso ?
<nubae> u can later use zsync on that download I would imagine
<nubae> (don't quote/blame me if that is not the case)
<ace_suares1> imagine... a world without war!
<ace_suares1> so you don't know, okay, nice, you recommend zsync but you don't know this... a pity! Maybe you should leand zsync and write a tutrorial?
<nubae> I know rsync, and I know what zsync does
<nubae> but I dont know every intircate detail of it it, I use google for that
<ace_suares1> nubae cool! I use google to. Couldn't find the answer to my question. Hmm maybe I won't test today, maybe tomorrow :-)
<nubae> I write enough tutorials, probably far more than anyone else
<nubae> so I do resent that comment
<nubae> jeez.... makes me wonder why I even bother
<ace_suares1> nubae: the point is: I am a nobody and I want to test. I started downloading a DVD that is more then 5 (more likely ten) hours of download. You hint that there is a better way. But that hint is incomplete. So as a newbie nobody tester, I stand in awe of those who know more, but what to do? I really don't know. That was my point, I was not trying to make you fele bad.
<ace_suares1> Edubuntu needs better 'etiquette' towards people who want to help, Is my opnion.
<ace_suares1> -------------------- 0.6% 131.0 kBps 482:59 ETA
<ace_suares1> with that donwload eating all my bandwidth, I'll put off editing the Meeting page till later...
<Zhombee> I have a question about the edubuntu CD that I created from the dowloadable iso file. How is it possible that it cannot "find the package on the server" if the files are on the CD? Or am I assuming too much? I'm trying to install the educational desktop for ubuntu, and it keeps giving me that error.
<Zhombee> Ah. I see.
<ace_suares1> ##------------------ 10.1% 139.7 kBps 411:16 ETA\
#edubuntu 2009-09-05
<ace_suares1> ########------------ 42.8% 97.9 kBps 370:25 ETA
<ace_suares1> ###########--------- 59.6% 80.6 kBps 314:02 ETA
<Himtuna> hi
<Himtuna> I am looking for a solution were all lab computers are connected to one server.
<Himtuna> the data is stored on server but all processing is done on client machine
<Himtuna> ( as college will not spend money on new server)
<Himtuna> anybody here?
<mhall1191> nubae|work: you around today?
<ace_suares1> LaserJock: where do i report bugs to the installer/dvd ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> hi baby
<Baby> hi :)
<ace_suares1> hi all
<Ahmuck-Sr> hiya ace_suares1
<ace_suares1> Ahmuck-Sr: did you test the dvd ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> nope
<Ahmuck-Sr> i kinda like stable systems :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> what's on the dvd ? karamic?
<ace_suares1> yeah the edubuntu version of karmic but i run it in a virtualbox just for testing and helping them
<ace_suares1> gotta go now sorry!
<Ahmuck-Sr> will do then
 * Ahmuck-Sr listening to good ol bluegrass :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> link to dvd ?
<mhall1191> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<Ahmuck-Sr> no torrent ?
<mhall1191> not that many people would be seeding anyway
<Ahmuck-Sr> agreed
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: well, depends on the bug. what happened?
<LaserJock> we will *really* need testers between now and the 22nd (Karmic Beta release)
<LaserJock> we've missed out on Alphas 1-5
<Ahmuck-Sr> 22nd of Sept ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> Release is as Keramic Beta
<Ahmuck-Sr> anywho
<Ahmuck-Sr> it as
<ace_suares1> LaserJock: still there ?
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: yep
<ace_suares1> pkay so let me ask you something, I tested the live cd and installed it too in a virtualbox. But there is NO clu as that this is edubuntu.
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Sr: 22nd is when the Ubuntu Beta will be released
<ace_suares1> It has the ubuntu logo and there is no spceial edubuntu content
<ace_suares1> was this intentional?
<LaserJock> well, sorta
<LaserJock> I haven't done much yet, other than create our own seed
<ace_suares1> okay i understand
<ace_suares1> so a lot has to be done then ;-)
 * LaserJock notes that he has been saying that for months :-)
<ace_suares1> can you send a mail to edubuntu-users when you re build the dvd ?
<ace_suares1> i am using zsync now and want to try and keep up to dat. But a full downlaid takes 12 hrs with my speed.
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: the DVD is rebuilt daily automatically
<ace_suares1> yeah well, if nothing edubuntu specific changed, then why test it?
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: the size of download is one reason why we didn't want to go to DVD, it makes it much harder to do trivial testing
<LaserJock> well, I intend to make edubuntu-specific changes
<ace_suares1> yeah well if you do, can you send a mail? I think you want the logo on the splash screen at least, and also the menu filled with all the edu apps?
<LaserJock> well, the logo will probably take the longest
<LaserJock> but we need to decide what apps should go in there, etc.
<LaserJock> right now I believe the edubuntu apps are in, just not in the Live part
<ace_suares1> hm i wouldnt wait for anyone to decide ;-(
<LaserJock> well, I know
<ace_suares1> well i downloaded yesterday and the menu didn't even have an education entry
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> the .debs are on there though
<LaserJock> just not installed into the live session, I need to figure out how that works
<ace_suares1> yeah well I assume you want people that download a edbunut dvd not to have to manually install them ????
<ace_suares1> oh and they ar enot installe dinto the install version too 9i installed FROm the live cd, not from the bootup menu!)
<LaserJock> well, no, that's why I said I need to figure out how to get them into the Live session
<LaserJock> there's a fair amount of work yet to do, and not a lot of time as this was *supposed* to all be done by August 27th
<ace_suares1> LaserJock: i don't understand. Okay, they are not IN the live CD; but if you click the INSTALL button on the desktop, then that is the same as installing from the boot menu, or not?
<LaserJock> no, no
<LaserJock> well
<ace_suares1> hmm so When I install from the boot menu, then they will be in the menu? Or also not ?
<LaserJock> I don't think so right now
<LaserJock> the way the DVD works is it has the typical Live CD part + tons of .debs
<LaserJock> that can be installed later, for people without a lot of bandwidth
<ace_suares1> ok got you, that's the whole Idea of the dvd isn't it.
<LaserJock> so for the Ubuntu DVD it's basically Ubuntu Desktop CD + most .debs in Main
<LaserJock> well, we're a bit different
<LaserJock> in that we don't have a Live CD
<LaserJock> and our contents is quite a bit larger than Ubuntu's
<ace_suares1> ah really didn't know that
<LaserJock> so the split between what goes on the Live part of the DVD and what will just be .debs is something that needs to be figured out
<ace_suares1> okay well i propose to at least fill the education menu. Can't you with tasksel automatically install the edubuntu meta packages?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> if I was using tasksel yeah :-)
<ace_suares1> so how can i help
<LaserJock> mainly in testing I think right now
<LaserJock> tweaking the seeds takes just a couple minutes for me to do
<ace_suares1> what's there to test? What can I test? Procedure?
<LaserJock> but I often don't have much time to test the result
<LaserJock> well, you already did a test for me
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> you said it was no different
<LaserJock> so now I'm going back to the seeds to see if I can get the Education menu populated a bit more :-)
<ace_suares1> yeah so thank me 1000x :-)
<ace_suares1> okay that would be great! so please send a mail on the list when you done it so i know on which days i have to do the zsync dance whihc is time consuming!
<LaserJock> ok, that sounds reasonable
<ace_suares1> i am extremely reasonable :-)
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: btw, how long have you been working on the wiki?
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: woah, why are you renaming the meeting logs?
<ace_suares1> hi LaserJock
<ace_suares1> stil there i gotta go for an hour
<ace_suares1> can talk to you later about the wiki
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: yeah, we can talk later
<Ahmuck-Sr> oooh, look that computer has regular internet
<Ahmuck-Sr> which one
<Ahmuck-Sr> that one, with the big blue e
<Ahmuck-Sr> oh
<Ahmuck-Sr> um, why can't i hear sound on this one
<Ahmuck-Sr> well, how bout this one, it's the server
<Ahmuck-Sr> ok
<Ahmuck-Sr> ...
<Ahmuck-Sr> my text is to small
<Ahmuck-Sr> where
<Ahmuck-Sr> over here on the server
<Ahmuck-Sr> oh, let's change the resolution
<Ahmuck-Sr> [Your video card does not support this driver, would you like to use the proprietary one instead?]
<Ahmuck-Sr> ...
<Ahmuck-Sr> hrm, it was ok before the update
<Ahmuck-Sr> ...
<Ahmuck-Sr> how did you get to that website ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> um, on this link
<Ahmuck-Sr> [ouch]
<Ahmuck-Sr> goes back to trying to figure out how
<Ahmuck-Sr> ...
<Ahmuck-Sr> looks like myspace and facebook is going to be a problem
<Ahmuck-Sr> gaia online, facebook for kids ?
<ace_suares1> hehe nice 'converstaion' Ahmuck-Sr
<ace_suares1> sbalneav: ping
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: geeze, you renamed 50+ meeting pages?!
<ace_suares1> hey that's called WORK :-)
<LaserJock> but why did you rename them?
<ace_suares1> becasue they now are under our own WikiSite.
<LaserJock> I don't see why they should go under WikiSite, that just makes the URL longer
<LaserJock> it also breaks any external URLs
<ace_suares1> okay well maybe you should bring it up next meeting
<LaserJock> I thought you were using WikiSite for stuff specifically about the wiki, like cleanup and such
<ace_suares1> I don't mind to make redirects for all pages if it really breaks outside links but I think that those page don't have outside links!
<ace_suares1> No, wikisite is the new wiki
<LaserJock> ?!!
<ace_suares1> everything is going to be moved or redirected to that new structure
<LaserJock> that seems a bit odd
<ace_suares1> okay well there a lot of odd things
<ace_suares1> in last meeting i got the go ahead to do what I think is needed
<LaserJock> can't we just take WikiSite out of the URL and get the same effect?
<LaserJock> it just make everything have a longer URL
<ace_suares1> this doesn't mean you can't comment on what I do but I'd rather have structural discussions then well you know, vetting over every small thing
<ace_suares1> I put up a lot of tasks to be vettted nobody paid attention
<LaserJock> I never saw ( I could have missed it) anything about moving the entire wiki under WikiSite
<LaserJock> I saw cleanup, etc.
<LaserJock> which is awesome
<ace_suares1> awesome panda?
<ace_suares1> say, how ode smeeting records and meeting logs relate?
<ace_suares1> how ode smeeting = how does meeting
<LaserJock> well, we used to just copy-n-paste the IRC log into the meeting logs
<LaserJock> now we tend to summarize
<LaserJock> but ideally that log namespace should hold the "results" of all our meetings
<ace_suares1> IF the log namespace should hold the RESULTS what does the RECORDS mean ?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<LaserJock> results seems to me to be more-or-less the same thing as records
<LaserJock> I think there is an Ubuntu-wide logging service for #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> so the raw logs aren't as needed as they used to be
<LaserJock> so we tend to keep summaries, results, tasks/agenda item lists
<LaserJock> but the namespace can be generally the same
<ace_suares1> I read about the ScribesTeam and I will contact them to see if they still summarize meetings. That would eb a good thing.
<ace_suares1> In /Logs you do find logs, but also fully transcribed meetings.
<ace_suares1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Logs/2009-08-28 I made this for our 28 aug meeting
<ace_suares1> LaserJock: are u there?
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: yep
<LaserJock> sorry, I'm floating between unpacking boxes
<ace_suares1> So It seems that the meeting RECORDS is just one big file, with a lot of individual meeting LOGS.
<ace_suares1> I wanted to ask you somethng but I figured it out already.
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: I just thing the Meeting namespace was pretty OK where it was
<LaserJock> *think
<ace_suares1> fine, thank you for youe opinion!
<LaserJock> the URLs are quite long as it is
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: for a move that large you might want to email the mailing list first for discussion
<ace_suares1> yeah sure I'll do that!
#edubuntu 2009-09-06
<ScottK> ace_suares1: Do you know it's not generally a good idea to move wiki pages around?
<ScottK> It creates havoc for links and page indexes like Google.
<ace_suares1> Hi ScottK
<ace_suares1> http://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+meeting+logs&spell=1
<ace_suares1> don't you think it's funny that google already indexed the pages I made an hour ago?
<ScottK> ace_suares1: It's really a poor practice.  There are plenty of archived links to the old ones.
<ScottK> I think if you don't understand this you really don't know enough to doing a wiki reorg.
<ace_suares1> Okay, I see your point! Can you just show me those, so I can make some redirect pages (then the old links will still work and point to the new pages) ?
<ScottK> ace_suares1: How many people's bookmarks are to the old pages for some reference?  There is no way to know all the links.
<ScottK> ace_suares1: What benifit to you think this work you are doing will have?
<ace_suares1> Yeah you are right. i think I need to send a mail to the list apologize for all the people who still have bookmarks to meetings from 2007!
<ScottK> ace_suares1: If you want to start with sarcasm, we can go that way.
<ace_suares1> ScottK: In generla, i think if you want to make a usefull wiki out of the mess it is, it's best to do a 'clean sweep'. I stated that at the meeting and it was (kind of )_ approved).
<ace_suares1> Will you be at the next meeting?
<ScottK> ace_suares1: Kind of I suspect means not.
<ace_suares1> ScottK: I think it was not my intention to meet with sarcasm.
<ScottK> What you are doing is a very poor practice that is discouraged in Ubuntu.
<ace_suares1> Maybe we should introduce each other. I haven't seen you around lately. I ma pretty new to really contributing to Edubuntu.
<ScottK> I don't have a particular interest in Edubuntu, but you are pretty well dominating the Ubuntu wiki change notices at the moment.
<ace_suares1> ScottK: Oh. Well should I click 'trivial change' all the time then?
<ScottK> ace_suares1: No.  You should not do it.
<ace_suares1> Okay I won't.
<ScottK> ace_suares1: I think you should also revert the changes you've made so far.
<ace_suares1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Logs is the page that contains *all* Edubuntu meeting logs, whether in raw IRC form as in Summarized text. The last meeting (2009-8-28) approves my editing of the wiki. There where no special guidelines. I am happy to revert any changes if needed!
<ScottK> ace_suares1: The link to your cleanup plan is non-existant
<ace_suares1> That's true, since it wasnt' very usefull after the meeting. It also was outside the structure.
<ace_suares1> there's a very old plan though https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/Cleanup that I would like to delete soonish
<ScottK> Well since the meeting log says that's what you were approved to do, it seems relevant.
<ScottK> I would be suprised to find anyone thought random page moving was a good idea.  It's certainly frowned on in the broader Ubuntu community
<ace_suares1> Sigh okay I will revert that deletion so you can see it from the agenda
<ScottK> Part of the point of having a history is to have a history.
<ace_suares1> Good to know. it's been very hard to get a good description of what and what not.
<ScottK> Deleting stuff really isn't a good plan.
<ScottK> A decent wiki reorg needs to be carefully thought out.  I've seen two wiki reorgs of Ubuntu development pages over the last several years and IMO neither one did more than confuse the picture.
<ace_suares1> Okay I hear you. Don't delete anything that was ever written even if it is totally out of whack, and don't rename stuff becasue there might exsit links
<ace_suares1> Okay well i think I have thougt it out quite well and I got the approval of the meeting. I am willing to listen to you and others, but where is the guidelines?
<ScottK> Or if you do, (because you have a good plan and a new structure that is obviously and clearly better) then put redirects on the old pages so peole can follow them.
<ace_suares1> About the redirects
<ace_suares1> yes, i think redirect shoud be placed wherever appropriate.
<ace_suares1> Important and crucial pages should be redirected if there is a new location
<ace_suares1> but some pages just don't make sense
<ScottK> That's anywhere a page used to exist.  Making links vanish from the web is a poor general design practice.
<ace_suares1> for instance, the meeting logs
<ace_suares1> ScottK: says who? No really, give me a good argument.
<ScottK> So you are the final arbiter of what's important?
<ace_suares1> At the moment, for the edubuntu, it seems yes.
<ace_suares1> I tried sevaral times
<ScottK> Starting with if a prior member of the Edubuntu Council, a core-dev and pretty much the tech lead for Edubuntu suggests it's a bad idea, that might be a clue.
<ace_suares1> to involve the team and I aited for a month for a meeting that wasn't scheduled for a while and then finally got scheduled
<ace_suares1> Hmm LaserJock ? He was not at the meeting and didnot comment on the mails about the meeting so I thought he was cool with it.
 * LaserJock looks up and reads backlog
<ScottK> Did the proposal come out while he was in the middle of moving across the country?
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: I don't have a problem with you cleaning things up in general, surely
<ace_suares1> maybe, I sent a summary to the list, and there was ameeting last friday, and I heard no objections, why?
<LaserJock> but you're now on to a 60+page move, that's a rather significant chunk of our wiki
<ace_suares1> yeah it is significant that's the whole point of the project
<LaserJock> the only issue I have is with the Meeting pages, I don't see a benefit from moving them and it's a rather dramatic change
<ScottK> This may now be the biggest wikipage move in the history of Ubuntu.  Certainly the biggest i know about.
<ace_suares1> to weed out unruly pages and present a clear structure to the users and developers
<ace_suares1> :-)
<ScottK> No.  :(
<ace_suares1> I still cna make redirects for all those pages, as I siad before I don't have a problem with the hour or so work involved
<ace_suares1> It's just that I think that the meeting log of 2006-05-23 is now bette rpresented.
<ace_suares1> and that noboday EVER will miss that page where it was.
<ScottK> BTW, this wikisite namespace that you seem to be trying to care out for Edubuntu isn't used by any other *buntu project.
<ace_suares1> It's not like instructions to connect thin clients, it's old old meetings!
<ace_suares1> I didn't really like the wikisite namespace, but it helps move everything from old to new. It's just one token in the url and it is clear what is done and what needs to be done.
<LaserJock> ace_suares1: the question is, how is the WikiSite namespace better than where it was?
<LaserJock> if you're going to move something you want to have a clear and compelling reason
<ace_suares1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Tasks btw this page lists tasks that needed to be decided on by the edubuntu team, but never anyone acknowledged or commented on it
<LaserJock> and for the meeting pages I just don't see any reason
<ScottK> ace_suares1: That doesn't mean it's OK to do it.
<ace_suares1> The clear and compelling reason for me is that everytihin not under wikisite is old and needs to be moved.
<ace_suares1> ScottK: but the meeting said it was
<LaserJock> but it seems backwards
<ScottK> The meeting said it was OK to move every single Edubuntu wiki page?
<ace_suares1> LaserJock: maybe it is backwards, but what is the main problem? The goal is to make the wiki again a usefull resource for developers and users alike
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and adding length to the URL doesn't seem to achieve that
<LaserJock> I gotta run
<LaserJock> but I think some further discussion would be useful on the list
<ace_suares1> These discussons really distract from the goal, and since there is no clear policy (not known to me anyway) why not go for it?
<LaserJock> at least for bigger changes like this
<ScottK> ace_suares1: My recommendation is you stop, go back, and rethink this.
<ScottK> It's really a bad idea.
<ace_suares1> Thanks for the advice.
<ace_suares1> Can I ask you a question?
<ace_suares1> Oh wow LaserJock leaves and ScottK leaves too.
<ace_suares1> Hmm
<nubae> ace_suares1, u seem to have a nack for sending people off channel ;-)
<nubae> i guess u dont really mean it, but clearly I'm not the only one who is getting mixed signals with the way you say things
<ace_suares1> how am I saying things? I am typing, and a non-native english speaker.
<ace_suares1> nubae ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> another uninvolved eduction individual wanting to exert control over the community?
<Ahmuck-Sr> s/eduction/edubuntu
<Ahmuck-Sr> what's happening, is two different things.
<Ahmuck-Sr> edubuntu gets "resource help" from it's parent company
<Ahmuck-Sr> it's parent company has a structure, approved edubuntu council members
<Ahmuck-Sr> edubuntu states it's community driven and free to do as it chooses
<Ahmuck-Sr> community driven projects are driven by community members, aka grass roots involvment
<Ahmuck-Sr> community projects are driven from the bottom up rather than top down
<Ahmuck-Sr> not seeing any complaints from community members about wiki re-structure, it appears to be all good
<Ahmuck-Sr> so you have two masters, two factions, each wanting control
<Ahmuck-Sr> top down vs bottom up
<Ahmuck-Sr> bottom up is held hostage by the resource control of top down
<Ahmuck-Sr> top down is held hostage by lack of bottom up volunteers
<Ahmuck-Sr> until there is a resolution, your always going to have the conflict
<nubae> well not really, this has to do with simple netiquette... redirects exist for a reason...
<Ahmuck-Sr> agreed, but you don't see the struggle here
<nubae> and to answer your question above ace_suares1 sarcasm for one, doesn't come across very well through irc and is generally offensive
<Ahmuck-Sr> nubae even you left because of all the red tape
<nubae> agreed there is red tape, though I didnt leave, just chose to concentrate my development efforts elsewhere
<Ahmuck-Sr> Rome was offensive, but they conquered the world for a moment
<Ahmuck-Sr> really don't want to drag log books out ...
<nubae> I still do very little in edubuntu itself... though I still edit and have done for last couple releases edubuntu.org on release day
<nubae> I haven't updated the apps pages for jaunty though... that much is true
<ace_suares1> well I don't know
<ace_suares1> It seems to go like this: We need people to help us!
<ace_suares1> Someone: I want to help, what can I do?
<ace_suares1> Some else: how do we know you can do what you can do ? Prove yourself!
<ace_suares1> Someone: okay, give me somthing to do
<ace_suares1> And so on
<ace_suares1> And then someone: well you do what you think is best
<ace_suares1> And then someone else: what you just did is  bad
<ace_suares1> and nobody explains really why
<ace_suares1> I mean, 'URL's become longer'.
<ace_suares1> 'Other projects have a different structure'
<ace_suares1> 'It's generally a bad idea'
<nubae> that was diplomatic for, u screwed up the links
<ace_suares1> nubae what links ?
<nubae> links that may have existed to the pages u deleted
<nubae> so make the redirects
<ace_suares1> you say sarcasm is bad, but what about accusation? Is that not bad?
<nubae> and everyone will be happy
<nubae> that would be the correct way to do things
<nubae> hey I'm just repeating what u said, and telling u waht someone else meant
<ace_suares1> the correct way? is that the correct way to clean up a wiki? What is the correct way to clean up a wiki?
<nubae> Im not acussing u of anything
<ace_suares1> nubae but the question remains: you screwed up the links. Thats is an accusation, from whoever it comes, right?
<nubae> well, I'll repeat what scottk said above, if u dont know that, u probably shouldnt be doing it
<nubae> well, thats a fact, not an accusation
<ace_suares1> okay so you arfe saying that I probably don't know that I am screwing up the links and therefor should not screw up links?
<nubae> anyway... I'm off... u should see now, that since I am the 3rd person saying the same thing, perhaps there might be something to what we are saying
<ace_suares1> nubaeit's only a fact if there are links that are srewed up, right?
<ace_suares1> well i have 100 people saying that windows is the best oS, should i believe them too? Maybe so!
<nubae> there u go with the sarcasm again...
<nubae> u are not gonna win people over here with that attitude believe u me
<ace_suares1> no saracasm at all, you are accusing me of sarcasm though! It's just a question!
 * nubae sighs
<ace_suares1> My goal is not to win people over though, it's cleaing up the wiki
<ace_suares1> why are you sighing? is that a demaening of my statements ?
<ace_suares1> are you saying with 'sighs' : this guy is hopeless., why am I wasting my time?
<planxa> hola
#edubuntu 2010-09-06
<alkisg> !info bash karmic
<ubottu> bash (source: bash): The GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 4.0-5ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 642 kB, installed size 3072 kB
<alkisg> !info bash jaunty
<ubottu> bash (source: bash): The GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 3.2-5ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 565 kB, installed size 1236 kB
<vmlintu> quiet day, it seems like..
<sebsebseb> Hi stgraber  just read your comment here and such http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/preview-proposed-edubuntu-installation-slideshow/
<sebsebseb> Nice installer slideshow they link to from Johnathon,  sadly it updates itself to quickly, so can't easilly read the text on the screens.
<stgraber> sebsebseb: yeah, the one that's used in the installer has a 25s delay instead of the 5s that we have on people.ubuntu.com
<sebsebseb> stgraber: ah right
<stgraber> the 5s delay was used so we could look at it without spending 5 minutes every time we did a change ;)
<sebsebseb> stgraber: oh so the images on the site will get  updated, when there is a change for the installer?
<sebsebseb> stgraber: well it looks nicer than the Ubuntu slide show :) and maybe a bit more useful  even
<stgraber> highvoltage usually updates it on people.ubuntu.com so we can show it to people without having them run the actual installer, it's usually quite up to date
<highvoltage> vmlintu: yeah it's a public holiday in US/CAnada
<sebsebseb> stgraber: as for new themes, when I installed edubuntu-desktop into 10.04,  I wasn't keen on it, but I had seen 9.10 and such in the past, and liked that more
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: http://jonathancarter.org/how-to-spell-jonathan/
<sebsebseb> stgraber: and yeah I haven't tried Edubuntu 10.10 in a vm just yet
<highvoltage> the one in the installer has a 75s delay, so it should be quite readable :)
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: yeah I had a typo or spelling mistake earlier when mentioning him
<stgraber> highvoltage == Jonathan Carter
<sebsebseb> stgraber: oh
<vmlintu> highvoltage: that explains.. only the hard working one online..
<sebsebseb> now I see when I hover over the highvoltage name in my client
<highvoltage> heh :)
<sebsebseb> I looked through the name list earlier,  when I was going to type something, but  I didn't know what name you used on here
<sebsebseb> so  I was looking for a j name, but nope,   no j name for you :D
 * highvoltage increases the timeout for people who might want to read more on people.ubuntu.com...
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: sounds good to me
<sebsebseb> I wanted to read the screens, but  way to quick
<alkisg> Heh, good one highvoltage :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU70qAfQAo8
<highvoltage> alkisg: Janatawala!
<alkisg> jsonathalinoulaki :D
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: heh in a way, your webpage about spelling your name
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: plus the way you typed it :D
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: I had to make that page for a manager I once had who spelt my name wrong in a different way at least a few times a day, and then it just grew from there :)
<sebsebseb> oh :D
<sebsebseb> So what you guys think of OMGUbuntu?  highvoltage stgraber  and anyone else that might want to answer this that is here
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: I've doubled the time on the slides, I don't want to make it too long because what I uploaded was meant to show the slide designs more than the content itself, but it should be more readbale now :)
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: stgraber and I talked about that just this morning
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: omgubuntu has some nice posts, I follow it in my rss reader
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: Still got to read it reasoanbly quick, but thats much better :)
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: hrm you mention gbrainy in the installer,  I have had that open a few times, but not so sure how to use it
<sebsebseb> as for omgubuntu there is a lot of fanboyism and ignorance on the site from commenters,  but yeah there are some pretty good blog enteries on there, its a good site to follow, to have an idea whats going on with Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> as well as for finding out about loads of add on apps, that can be used with Ubuntu, which I am not really that intersted in, but will still read about that
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: thats nice though that Edubuntu is being mentioned on there, for a change
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: I quite enjoy the stuff about add-on apps, it's nice to know what's out there :)
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: well yeah exactly its nice to know what is out there
<sebsebseb> even if not going to use it personally
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: well it's nice to have you here. welcome to #edubuntu :)
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: *nod*
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: However they mention a lot of Mono stuff, which gets at certian people.  What do you think about Mono?  Is it a threat of possible patent sueing from Microsoft for example,  for Edubuntu and other distros that have it?  Personally I like Banshee and F-Spot, but would prefer that they were programmed with something more Desktop Linux friendly.
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: oh I have been here a few times before in the past
<highvoltage> and I agree with you about the commenters
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: ah, probably just quiet :)
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: nah last time I was here,  was uhmm
<sebsebseb> not sure exactly
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: a kid can barely do homework these days without infringing on a patent. almost everything is patented, Microsoft even tried to patent the double-click in 2008. I'm over worrying about patents, I'm certainly not going to waste any brain cycles worrying about patents in mono
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: is mainly a US thing luckily, but even so, it will effect the rest of the world as well
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: I guess if they try to patent sue when it comes to Mono, distros can remove the programs,  and when loads of the users find out,  they will dislike/hate Microsoft even more
<sebsebseb> however distros such as Fedora are playing safe, by not including it
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: Open Week coming up again soon :)  will there be another session for Edubuntu?
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: I guess so, well look forward to that :)
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: I'm not sure, it depends on whether there'll be interest
<sebsebseb> oh?
<sebsebseb> interest from whom?
<highvoltage> people who'd want to attend :)
<highvoltage> last time there was some more interest than with the previous sessions, and that was nice, but having a classroom session when only 3 or so people are listening in isn't all that fun
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: right, but quite a lot of people take part in Open Week, or at least idle in the channel
<highvoltage> sebsebseb: and that's why I probably wouldn't do another one if people just want to read. they could just read the old logs then if it's just going to be me blabbering for an hour.
<highvoltage> I won't stop anyone else from doing it though, it's just that I think I can spend my time better on ubuntu or edubuntu otherwise
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: ah right I see
<sebsebseb> highvoltage: and  well yeah the old logs are still up  and quite relivent
#edubuntu 2010-09-07
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning
<mhall119> morning
<mhall119> well, afternoon now
<highvoltage> mhall119: good afternoon :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: you're going to uds, right?
<mhall119> yup
<mhall119> come hell or high water
<highvoltage> great :)
<mhall119> being Florida, both are entirely possible
<highvoltage> we could spend some time on desktop-sessions there then
<highvoltage> heh, and tornados!
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> tornados aren't that much of a problem, especially in Orlando
<mhall119> I plan to make as many of the edu sessions as I can
<mhall119> I've also got some django sessions to attend
<mhall119> since I didn't do anything on Qimo for 10.10. I plan on releasing a new version based on 11.04
<highvoltage> join #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> (oops)
#edubuntu 2010-09-08
<alkisg> Good morning
<vmlintu> morning
<highvoltage> morning vmlintu
<Nokio> Hi all for some reasyon on a fresh install of edubuntu 10.04 xorg is taking all the cpu. Can anyone help me ?
<alkisg> Nokio: I've seen that when both vino-server (the remote desktop server) and italc are installed at the same time, is that the case for you?
<Nokio> dpkg -l returns me that vino/italc-client/libitalc is installed
<Nokio> would that be a probleme ?
<alkisg> It might be. Try killing all ica* processes and see if your problem is temporarily solved.
<Nokio> ok brb
<alkisg> Or, disable vino-server in the remote desktop preferences for that user
<alkisg> system > preferences > remote desktop > disable...
<vmlintu> highvoltage: was there a new version of ltsp-cluster under development?
<Nokio> alkisg, interesting now that i turned remote desktop down xorg is back to normal but niso-server takes 100% of cpu now lol
<alkisg> niso-server? what's that?
<Nokio> oups vino-server lol sorry typo probleme :p
<alkisg> remote desktop IS vino-server
<alkisg> So if it's taking 100% cpu, it's still running
<Nokio> i run an ltsp server. i disabled it for my user ill try a reboot and see how it goes
<alkisg> Try `killall -9 vino-server`
<alkisg> OK, or a reboot.
<Nokio> i did kill the process and the load average went back to normal so thats why i try a reboot
<Nokio> wont be long brb
<highvoltage> vmlintu: yep, it still is, but it's not close to release yet
<vmlintu> highvoltage: Is it available publicly somewhere now?
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I think it's in a bzr branch... one moment and I'll check...
<vmlintu> I think I once found some bzr branch, but I couldn't find anything now that I checked..
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I'll ask vvinet about it a bit later, he has been working on it
<vmlintu> I've been thinking of new ways to implement an ltsp load balancer and I was wondering if you've come up with some new ideas..
<vmlintu> highvoltage: Right now I'm thinking of a dynamic masterless load balancer that wouldn't need a master server to do the load balancing..
<Nokio> alkisg you were right it now work like a charm !
<Nokio> thanks a lot for your time and help !
<alkisg> You're welcome
<Nokio> have a nice day to you !
<highvoltage> vmlintu: poke stgraber with that :)
<vmlintu> highvoltage: I'll write down some thoughts about it.. I was thinking of using status broadcasting so that the servers would know about each other and their status. That way any server would know what other server are available and how they are doing.
<alkisg> Meeting in 50' ?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> (or about 9 from now, at least)
<highvoltage> oh, it's time!
<highvoltage> (time flies while bug fixing :) )
<vmlintu> dinda: hi.. did you notice this? http://www.opinsys.fi/en/ubuntu-in-education-in-finland
<highvoltage> vmlintu: http://dindafoss.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/ubuntu-in-education/
<vmlintu> oh, it picked up the link to it.. good..
<vmlintu> or trackback it is called, I think..
<vmlintu> I was just wondering if there's something else that would be useful that I could write down..
#edubuntu 2010-09-09
<easter_egg> I'm searching for a software like vnc to class. Someone know something like this?
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> hey alkisg
 * alkisg really hates converting windows -edu apps to wine-based .deb packages... :-/
<alkisg> ...been doing that all day today
<highvoltage> how does that work? do you put that in some kind of global bottle or do you have some scripts or something that copies it to the user's home directories or do you just have the executables somewhere that runs from a launcher?
<alkisg> Usually, I put the data in /usr/share/package, make a wrapper launcher in /usr/bin/package-executable, and make the appropriate sharedmimeinfo for the files to be able to open from within nautilus
<alkisg> ...but in some cases there are dependencies like java etc, I'm looking into them now (i.e. package a windows version of java in /usr/share/wine-java, then set the appropriate env vars before launching the edu app, and finally make the edu package depend on the wine-java package)...
<alkisg> Here's a screenshot of the "education" menu for half of the packages we have so far: http://ts.sch.gr/repo/images/education-menu.png
<alkisg> (all of them windows-based, unfortunately)
<highvoltage> well, that's all greek to me
<highvoltage> :p
<alkisg> :D
<mhall119> alkisg: are those FLOSS games?
<alkisg> mhall119: no, greek windows edu apps packaged for ubuntu
<jc__> How many thin clients should I be able to run If I have 10.4 dual 3ghz multilcore proc's and 4 gig memory server is set up with gui interface
<alkisg> There's a server-sizing formula at the ltsp docs: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
<alkisg> ...something like (256 + 192 * clients) MB RAM
<highvoltage> jc__: depends on your network speed too and what you'll be doing and whether you'll be running some local apps. but at t thumbsuck based on those specs, about 20.
<alkisg> Of course if they just run light apps, or if not of them are logged on simultaneously, you could boot more. And if they need multimedia apps, the network would be a bottleneck ==> even less.
<alkisg> highvoltage: heh, (4096-256)/192 is *exactly* 20 :D
<highvoltage> :)
<jc__> I have a school lab setup 12 pxeboot and seem to have issues with running out of memory when students use firefox with flash  servers are connected to 10/100/1000 switch
<alkisg> What runs out of memory? the client or the server?
<jc__> the server
<highvoltage> jc__: what's the specifications of the clients? it might be a good idea to run firefox (or even chromium, my preference) as a local app
<highvoltage> (I'm actually running firefox 4b as local app on my work thin client and it works quite nicely)
<alkisg> jc__: a `ps aux` at the time of the problem would be good troubleshooting information...
<jc__> I have been trying to figure out how to run local on client the thin clients have at least 256 meg of memory
<alkisg> How are you seeing the out of memory problems? /var/log? Apps crashing?
<jc__> I did notice on the ltsp.org site that I can modify the ssh communication to only use tcp/ip
<jc__> gui tools in ubuntu showing systems resources and some of the apps are freezing and have to be restarted
<jc__> Im new at all of this does anyone know of some that I might contact in Huntsville Al
<jc__> to discuss
<alkisg> (05:07:21 PM) jc__: I did notice on the ltsp.org site that I can modify the ssh communication to only use tcp/ip ==> are you talking about LDM_DIRECTX=True? That's good for speed (vs security), but it won't affect RAM usage...
<jc__> yes I set the LDM=true
<jc__> alkisg I think i know enough to be dangerous
<alkisg> :)
<annkas> is there a possibility to have a ubunt server and the pupils log on with usernames and passwords on different computers, getting their own desktop, shortcuts and so on? Like in Skolelinux?
<annkas> i think it is calle roaming profiles in MS Windows
<annkas> is there an edubuntu server profile?
#edubuntu 2010-09-10
<needhelp1> anyone up
<markit> hi, any program that is equivalent than "hot potatoes" for windows that you are aware of?
<markit> http://hotpot.uvic.ca/
#edubuntu 2010-09-11
<Dehs>  anyone here know how to setup a static ip on edubuntu server 10.4.1? please dont ask me any random or pointless questions, not trying to be rude, ive just encountered several idiots here and want a quick answer, not wasted time
<alkisg> Urm. Not the best intro, but ok, let's go through this
<alkisg> There are two ways, 1) with network manager and 2) with /etc/network/interfaces
<alkisg> Do you have any preference over those 2?
<Dehs> well ive been trying to use the /etc/network/interfaces file for a minute now but its asking for several variables im not familiar with
<alkisg> Dehs: can you use pastebin?
<Dehs> yeah gimme a sec
<alkisg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<alkisg> Put there the following info:
<alkisg> cat /etc/network/interfaces
<alkisg> ifconfig -a
<alkisg> cat /etc/resolv.conf
<Dehs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/492250/
<Dehs> put it in terminal? or pastebin? and sorry im kinda nubish lol
<alkisg> In the pastebin
<alkisg> You put the interfaces file, but paste the output of the other 2 commands too
<alkisg> (the interfaces file is wrong)
<Dehs> well yeah im missing info
<Dehs> but sec
<Dehs> here is the output of ifconfig -a
<Dehs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/492251/
<Dehs> output of cat /etcv/resolv.conf
<Dehs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/492253/
<Dehs> and im using dhcp as of right now so once you get me setup on the static and i restart i'll lose you for a moment :P
<alkisg> Dehs: you have 2 network cards, do you want a static ip on both of them or just on eth0?
<alkisg> Is that for ltsp?
<Dehs> static on just one
<Dehs> eth1
<alkisg> OK, what IP do you want there?
<Dehs> 99.119.57.178
<alkisg> Nope
<alkisg> That doesn't sound right
<alkisg> You currently have: eth0=99.119.57.178  and eth1=192.168.69.250
<Dehs> its an isp assigned ip, one of 5
<alkisg> So, do you want eth1 to take the ip of eth0?
<Dehs> is there a command to see which nic is in use? because im not sure exactly
<Dehs> it looks like eth0 is the active one apparently, but in the network manager, and my etc/network/interfaces file it lists eth1 o.O
<alkisg> eth1 is connected to the local network, eth0 to the internet
<alkisg> Can you describe your network setup?
<alkisg> I.e. where is eth0 connected and where is eth1 connected?
<alkisg> (switches, dhcp servers, routers etc)
<Dehs> dsl to netopia to switch to server
<alkisg> and the other nic?
<Dehs> same thing
<alkisg> They're both connected to the internet?
<alkisg> OK. Is netopia some kind of a router?
<Dehs> yes
<alkisg> Then, that router gets the external IP
<alkisg> (=99.119.57.178)
<alkisg> eth0 currently has the same IP, but it's useless
<alkisg> It doesn't have access to anything
<Dehs> actually netopia generates the ips
<alkisg> And, eth1 gets a local address from your router, and you access the internet from it
<alkisg> So, if I'm reading you correctly, you *don't* want a static ip, because netopia has it.
<Dehs> btw im just a tech here, im just relaying info from my boss in a wheelchair :P
<Dehs> no he wants the static ip, just on the one nic o.O sorry you both kinda have me lost
<alkisg> OK. I think it would break your internet connection, but sure, we can do that.
<alkisg> On which eth do you want it?
<alkisg> eth0 or eth1?
<Dehs> well how are we gonna do it without breaking the net first lol
<Dehs> oh i think i get you lol
<alkisg> If you're behind a router, you can't use a public IP
<Dehs> continue on
<alkisg> It doesn't make sense
<alkisg> But if you want to put a static IP, you can
<alkisg> You just won't have access to anywhere
<alkisg> E.g. do you know your public subnet mask?
<Dehs> 255.255.255.248
<alkisg> OK. On which eth do you want that info?
<alkisg> On eth0 or on eth1?
<Dehs> eth1
<alkisg> And, what's your gateway?
<alkisg> 99.119.57.something
<Dehs> 99.119.57.182
<alkisg> Here's your interfaces, as you described it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/492263/
<alkisg> Make backups etc because I doubt that that's valid info... :)
<alkisg> (for your current wiring)
<alkisg> I think that what you want to do is to setup your router to have a dmz server
<alkisg> i.e. for the router to have 2 IPs, and send whatever data it gets to the server
<alkisg> But the server won't have a public IP - the router will.
<Dehs> gimme a sec lemme try this :P
<alkisg> For anyone interested, I've packaged a chemistry app (http://www.chemcollective.org/applets/vlab.php) as a binary package here: http://ts.sch.gr/repo/pool/main/l/lyk-virtual-chemistry-lab/lyk-virtual-chemistry-lab_1.6.4-1_all.deb
#edubuntu 2011-09-05
<jbicha> meway: did you visit edubuntu.org? Edubuntu is Ubuntu with a lot of educational software pre-installed
<meway> yes I did
<meway> oh I see :)
#edubuntu 2011-09-06
<benonsoftware> Hi all
#edubuntu 2011-09-07
<meway> Hello I need a good program for simple math that also covers algebra and fractions
<meway> any ideas?
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/kbruch
<dgroos> Hi.
<dgroos> alkisg: I just was telling someone on the list server about your setup.
<dgroos> they wondered if you were using a 100 or gig switch?
<dgroos> Also, I told them about you using regular PC's as the fat client servers in your classes and am about to tell them that you use xubuntu to 'slim them down'.  True?
<alkisg> False :)
<alkisg> We use switches either with 1 or 2 gigabit ports, or full gigabit switches
<dgroos> which part--about the xfce?
<alkisg> And we use normal ubuntu installations
<alkisg> We haven't tried xfce, but it shouldn't make a difference on the setup
<alkisg> lubuntu would also work, for thinner fat clients
<dgroos> I thought you said once that you used that to minimalize your image.
<dgroos> OK, I
<dgroos> I'll let him know.  Thanks.
<alkisg> Nope, I never seen xfce or lxde in a thin/fat client environment, but especially for fats, they should work out of the box
<dgroos> OK, what are the specs on your classroom PC servers--you do have them, right ;)
<alkisg> We have about 250 classroom labs with ltsp, which one of them do you want? :)
<dgroos> Show off ;) This guy is looking at his options to replace their ailing serversâ¦ how about a range of low- adequate to high- adequate?
<alkisg> For fat clients, any 5 year old pc with a bit of ram + disk will do
<alkisg> The network speed is the greatest asset there
<alkisg> For thin clients, you need cpu, ram, network, etc etc
<dgroos> Great, thanks!
<alkisg> So, if he has some money to spare, tell him to go for 3 gb ram + 2 pci-e gigabit nics
<alkisg> (for fat server)
<dgroos> Do you bind those gig ports together?  I assume you have another port, perhaps a 100 meg port, to the WAN/Internet?
<alkisg> We have cheap routers for wan/internet
<alkisg> 2 mbps usually
<alkisg> And yes, if one has 2 gigabit nics, he'd better bind them together
#edubuntu 2011-09-08
<neil_> can you have a client (with a hdd) work like a thin client without needing to netboot?
<fr0sted> #xubuntu
<fr0sted> sry
#edubuntu 2011-09-09
<solaris> Hi I'm interested in contributing to edubuntu, I've been using linux as a system admin for over 10 years. What are some things I can do to help?
#edubuntu 2011-09-10
<jbicha> solaris: try asking on the mailing list
#edubuntu 2011-09-11
<alkisg> Good morning
#edubuntu 2012-09-03
<sternfan2012> thanks
<lickalott> np
<sternfan2012> I am setting up a test server and was wondering if anyone can answer some Qs
<sternfan2012> I am trying to replace a lab with 12 xp machines in a school-type setting
<sternfan2012> right now they all go through a squid box - to log websites visited
<sternfan2012> I would like to move the 12 xp boxes to edubuntu
<sternfan2012> Q - when the students browse - will squid see each PCs IP and log accordingly?
<sternfan2012> Or since everything is on the edubuntu server - will it all come from that IP?
<LuizGarcia> hello guys!
<LuizGarcia> brb
#edubuntu 2012-09-04
<alkisg> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/09/03/0318246/ubuntu-gnome-remix-1210-arrives-for-testing
<stgraber> alkisg: yep, that's jbicha's work
<alkisg> Yup, I like the direction it's going in :)
<alkisg> stgraber: any ideas about edubuntu/ltsp/thin client future, now that we won't have unity-2d and gnome-fallback? llvmpipe over the network really sucks, maybe switch to xfce/lxde?
<alkisg> Or try to run the WM locally?
<stgraber> alkisg: I sent an e-mail regarding that to the desktop team, we'll see what happens
<stgraber> alkisg: short answer is, ltsp is in main and supported by Canonical, so I have to release with Unity support
<alkisg> Cool, /me searches for the archives...
<stgraber> now it's up to the unity team to fix it so that it works
<jbicha> stgraber: edubuntu 12.10 won't have gnome fallback?
<stgraber> jbicha: Edubuntu 12.10 will still let our users use gnome fallback. I'm talking about LTSP here
<alkisg> Hmmm... warren mentioned that up to some point, maybe 2008/2009, 3d, compiz etc over the network worked quite well... unfortunately I've never been able to reproduce this
<stgraber> alkisg: it does work fine if the software you're running supports indirect rendering
<stgraber> which is the case for compiz, but not for compiz+unity...
<alkisg> stgraber: with intel server + client, I'm still getting software rendering with llvmpipe
<alkisg> (which is unusuably slow)
<stgraber> also, compiz blows up in 16bit mode (well, so does llvmpipe, which is why I had to revert to 24bit in quantal for now...)
<stgraber> alkisg: that's weird. And LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 is set in the environment?
<alkisg> Yeah.. I'll test again to make sure today
<stgraber> I certainly was playing openarena full screen on 12.04 with my atom netbook just a few weeks ago ;)
<alkisg> As a thin client??!
<stgraber> yep
<alkisg> Ty, I'll look into it
<stgraber> it was using 30-40Mbps of bandwidth, so not something you'd want all your network to do, but it was still working
<alkisg> We'll have problems with all the older hardware that doesn't support 3d, but at least modern hardware will work in this case
<alkisg> (although usually ancient hardware => thins, modern => fats...)
<stgraber> yeah, I expect people deploying on older hardware to go with gnome-session-fallback or switch to lxde/xfce
<alkisg> We need to select one of them and debug it a bit to ensure a smoother experience
<alkisg> I think vagrantc is using lxde, so it should work ok with ltsp
<stgraber> yeah, will happily let that work to someone who actually cares ;) for now I'm just trying to get something that works fine on 2-3 years old Intel, that's already hard enough as it's...
<alkisg> Edubuntu will stay with unity, right?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> though as jbicha mentioned, we offer gnome-session-fallback as an option in the installer
<stgraber> choosing that option will change the default session of both the server and thin clients
<alkisg> I don't think that'll still be alive for the next LTS though... they're killing it upstream
<stgraber> (both unity and gnome-session-fallback are installed in all cases)
<stgraber> yeah, that part kind of sucks as I really don't want to bring a whole different desktop environment in Edubuntu just to support older hardware...
<stgraber> the fallback session was really good for these cases...
<stgraber> (and for the nostalgics ;))
<jbicha> alkisg: I don't think gnome-session-fallback is dead yet
<alkisg> And I heard some apps like totem won't work with fallback, I don't know when that started though
<alkisg> jbicha: I'm reading this: https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode
<jbicha> alkisg: no, totem won't work now without 3D, it still works in GNOME Classic
<alkisg> ...and the relevant bug reports suggest they're removing support upstream currently
<stgraber> alkisg: I believe the totem issues are linked to clutter which doesn't like 2D environments, so yeah, these will likely stop working on thin clients, whatever the desktop environment you're using
<jbicha> "won't work with fallback" is a bit misleading
<stgraber> unless they work with indirect rendering, then they should at least work on intel
<alkisg> "several apps now require clutter and can't work in fallback mode (totem, audio/video UI in empathy, cheese, etc.) " ==> the way they say it, they should have problems with unity-3d too
<jbicha> it depends on what the meaning of "fallback" is
<jbicha> in the pure, ideal GNOME world, you'd only be using fallback if you don't have working 3D so in that case, the clutter apps won't work
<stgraber> alkisg: anyway, it's indeed a pretty bad time for LTSP at the moment when gnome-shell, unity and kde all kind of suck on thin clients (where suck ranges from segfault to being so slow it's unusable). I'm expecting to recommend people to stick to 12.04 for now while we see how things evolve...
<alkisg> Their solution there is software emulation, llvmpipe
<alkisg> stgraber: +1
<stgraber> alkisg: my guess is that soon enough we might have to start doing fat clients by default and let the thin client stuff to people who know what will work with it and what desktop environment they want...
<stgraber> I'm really not looking forward to that day though... it kind of defeats the original purpose of LTSP...
<alkisg> It depends... the most valuable thing in LTSP for me is it's "whole lab in a server" feature, not just the "reuse ancient hardware" feature...
<stgraber> sure, but we used to have both ;)
<alkisg> Yeah :(
<alkisg> We might be able to run the WM locally though...
<stgraber> indeed, we'd likely have to fix dbus to work properly first though then check that dconf and similar stuff don't blow up
<stgraber> and that wouldn't save us from totem and other stuff using clutter, though I suppose we could run these locally too (probably a good idea in any case)
<stgraber> I think the idea would really to reverse the concept between local and remote apps and make sure we can seamlessly integrate "remote" apps on a fat client system
<stgraber> then build a list of stuff that should be running on the server (libreoffice, ...)
 * alkisg expects 14.04 to be a bit chaotic for LTSP, and the next LTS after that to use wayland and be even more chaotic :D
<stgraber> I'm kinda hoping someone will eventually notice that our new shiny desktops don't have any working remote desktop protocol and will fix that somehow... as remote X11, VNC, RDP, NX, ... all suck with the new shiny desktop environments...
<stgraber> gets me wondering why we even ship vino...
<jbicha> alkisg: wayland was considered for 12.10, I expect they'll try again for 13.04
<alkisg> I think that part will be very good for ltsp... either fats, or the wayland remote desktop solution
<alkisg> jbicha: so we might have it as the default for 14.04 without the need for x-wayland? Dunno, it sounds to me the apps aren't ready yet...
<jbicha> oh, it's still x on wayland
<alkisg> That will still give us the same problems with ltsp though :-/
<stgraber> so far my upstream plans are to do the switch to lightdm during this year's hackfest (next month), nag Scotty to get libnss-ssh and libpam-ssh in shape, get that released, then fix/update stuff as things get better/worse
<stgraber> they landed lightdm with rdp support last week (or the week before?) in quantal, so my plan is to just re-use that API to implement an X11/LTSP backend
<stgraber> that should be trivial and should let us get rid of ldm
<alkisg> Cool, that's a very good plan
<stgraber> then again, it's an LTSP hackfest, so we'll see how much of that will actually happen ;)
<alkisg> Eat some lobster for me too :D
<stgraber> highvoltage: speaking of the hackfest, Marc and you are going, right? (otherwise I'll need to figure out how to get down there and pretty quick...)
<vmlintu> stgraber: is lightdm going to be the only supported dm? I remember there being talk about supporting kdm/gdm/xdm/lightdm with libnss-ssh/libpam-sshauth.
<alkisg> Ideally we would support any pam-capable DM
<alkisg> But I don't know if we'll be able to support everything, like e.g. the rdp plugin
<alkisg> We can create different sessions in /usr/share/xsessions to be selected from any DM upon login
<alkisg> E.g. "Local session (fat client)", "Gnome, on server (thin client)" etc
<alkisg> And authentication is fine with pam as well
<vmlintu> does the rdp stuff require something special?
<alkisg> But "login as guest", "rdp session"... I don't know if we'll be able to support all the options that are available in ldm
<alkisg> The rdp session actually isn't a session at all, since the user doesn't exist locally
<alkisg> *not in any ssh-capable server
<alkisg> Anyways, most of these questions will be answered in BTS... although the implementation will need months
<vmlintu> now that schools have started, I'll have time to work on the lightdm stuff again
<alkisg> Cool... it would be nice if you could attend the BTS as well, to give feedback to Scotty, even remotely...
<vmlintu> until now we've been doing to work with any dm, but the lightdm specific backend stuff would change this
<alkisg> I think the plan is to support any DM, and just polish lightdm a bit more
<alkisg> Since it has supports for plugins etc
<vmlintu> I won't be able to attend bts physically
<vmlintu> when is it going to be?
 * alkisg neither... in a couple of months, not sure exactly
<alkisg> The certain part is that we'll need to change LTSP a bit as well
<alkisg> E.g. if we only have 1 DM menu for selecting the thin client session, how will clustering or load balancing be done?
<alkisg> So maybe "Gnome on server with less CPU load (thin)", "LXDE on server1 (thin)" etc, multiple menus
<alkisg> And we'll need the DM to notify pamssh about the selected session, _before_ the authentication...
<vmlintu> so far we have disabled all ldm menus anyway
<alkisg> That's ok for testing, but it can't be committed upstream like this, people that use load balancing will complain
 * alkisg only uses a single linux server so doesn't care much about all that
<vmlintu> automatic load balancing should be no problem as the login script checks the servers before logging in
<alkisg> Also pulse will need to be started as part of the session... ldm/rc.d will need to find a new location
<vmlintu> load balancing cannot be left to the user anyway
<alkisg> There are cases where the user needs a certain server because it has a specific app
<alkisg> Or cases where someone wants to try a local login (fat), or an rdp login, or an ssh login (console)... too many cases to support
<vmlintu> hmm.. I've never actually tried if ldm has support for selecting the server
<alkisg> Now we only have /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files to go with
<alkisg> (if we want to support all DMs)
<alkisg> And we won't be able to display different languages per server
<alkisg> We'll just have to sum up all of them and display them all at once
<vmlintu> different languages?
<alkisg> Login language
<alkisg> E.g. a server might support en, fr, and another en, el
<alkisg> Ideally when server1 was selected, the language combo box of the DM would only show en + fr
<vmlintu> Does LDM have currently something like that?
<alkisg> No, it only supports a single server :)
<alkisg> (I think)
<vmlintu> ok.. I started thinking that I have missed something big
<vmlintu> one option would of course be to have a separate dialog appearing after *dm login
<vmlintu> That could ask everything that is needed - specific server, language, what ever..
<alkisg> One for selecting the server before, and one for selecting specific options afterwards
<alkisg> But displaying dialogs is intrusive, they'd need to be optionally selected from DM menus
<vmlintu> I want the *DM to be without a single selection anyway
<vmlintu> Do you know what kind of apps people are using that are installed only on specific servers?
<alkisg> I've heard some people at #ltsp mentioning specific use cases, but I don't remember any of them
<vmlintu> I think I'll do some testing with the xsession .desktop files to see how lightdm behaves..
<vmlintu> Are there other load balancing solutions besides ltsp-cluster around?
<vmlintu> That kind of load balancing doesn't require UI
<alkisg> LDM_SERVER="server1 server2 server3"
<alkisg> I think we support automatic load balancing when the user defines multiple servers
<alkisg> (if not, I once wrote a script for that...)
<vmlintu> that queries ldminfod?
<alkisg> I think ldminfod is queried for all LDM_SERVERs
<alkisg> ...but since we're only using 1 server always, I haven't really dug into all that
<vmlintu> yep.. we've been using lately a load balancer that asks sinfod for server loads
<vmlintu> it mimics partly ltsp-cluster so it works with normal chroots
<vmlintu> I've been wondering if something like that should be built-in in ldminfod. Every server would broadcast its status and all other servers would always know the status for all servers.
<vmlintu> ldm/lightdm/*dm would need to query only one server to know where to connect
<alkisg> At some point in the future I want to propose a new configuration system for ltsp, a settings daemon on the server that provides info for the server itself and for each client/boot phase
<alkisg> If that's well implemented, it might replace ldminfod...
<vmlintu> would ldminfod replacement need to be compatible with it?
<highvoltage> stgraber: it's highly unlikely that Marc will be going at this point
<highvoltage> stgraber: I want to go, so we'll see
<alkisg> vmlintu: it depends... it might have a compatibility layer there, it's not hard to do that, although I'm not sure if it's worth it
<vmlintu> highvoltage: going to uds?
<vmlintu> alkisg: what about the lts.conf stuff? Is there need for tftp based method?
<alkisg> vmlintu: I don't see a need there, except for compatibility
<alkisg> The initramfs can access the web (wget) or any other port (nc), no need for the additional tftp client we're installing in the initramfs...
<alkisg> And since we already have an ldminfod, it's not like we need another settings server. 1 is enough
<highvoltage> vmlintu: I'm not sure, at this point it doesn't seem so
<vmlintu> highvoltage: ok
<highvoltage> vmlintu: but I admittedly don't have much of a reason to go, I have enough work for the next 6 months edubuntu-wise already
<vmlintu> highvoltage: what kind of things are you working on now?
<vmlintu> alkisg: if there was a way to load the kernel with http, I'd be happy..
<alkisg> vmlintu: other than ipxe / ipxelinux.0 ?
<vmlintu> alkisg: I always keep forgetting that.. it should be the default
<vmlintu> and now I remember again that ipxe doesn't work with all the hw I have in hand..
<alkisg> ipxelinux.0 is supposed to reuse the pxe stack
<alkisg> So it should work for all cards
<vmlintu> maybe I have tried it with some other method
<vmlintu> hmm.. I think it was the chainloader that I tried earlier
<highvoltage> vmlintu: not much, that's the problem
<highvoltage> vmlintu: we don't have that much technical commitments atm, but we have a *lot* of project stuff to sort out, growing the community, contuing the work we set out to do on the website, interviews and news on the site, sponsorship process and more
<highvoltage> vmlintu: not necessarilly big or scary things (actually quite the opposite), but I'm interested in too many things that could each be full-time things on their own. at least I've been making progress with time-managing all of these recently.
<vmlintu> alkisg: is ipxelinux.0 available somewhere?
<alkisg> vmlintu: I haven't used that, I'm not even sure it's named like that
<alkisg> It might be called undi something
<vmlintu> undionly.kpxe?
<alkisg> Yup, that one, but still not sure about it
<alkisg> And not sure from what version on it supports http either
<alkisg> Try the syslinux wiki or irc
<vmlintu> that has been giving be problems earlier
<alkisg> http support should be quite new, so you might have hit bugs that were fixed in the meantime
<vmlintu> I'll do some testing
<vmlintu> thanks
<alkisg> People at #syslinux are friendly, do ask them about any problems
<vmlintu> highvoltage: that does sound like a lot
<bencer> stgraber: did u see my reply on #1043654?
<highvoltage> stgraber: these would be fine for weblive, right? http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4
<highvoltage> hey there bencer
<bencer> hey highvoltage
<bencer> im blocked waiting for the -release team to approve the ffe
<bencer> migration is going to be difficult from precise
<bencer> as explained in the ticket
<bencer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zentyal-samba/+bug/1043654
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043654 in zentyal-samba (Ubuntu) "[FFe] New version of zentyal-samba" [Undecided,New]
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I sent PLC an email request cc'ing ben and serge and also sent ben an update on the sponsoring process that we're working on
<highvoltage> stgraber: now to get the TB while I'm at it :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok :)
<bencer> stgraber: highvoltage any opinion on the zentyal-samba?
<highvoltage> bencer: imho it looks reasonable
<bencer> highvoltage: if you can comment something on the ticket, would be great
<highvoltage> bencer: ok, but I have pretty much 0 say in it :)
<bencer> highvoltage: maybe helps to get the ok from the -release guys
<highvoltage> bencer: ok, posted
<bencer> highvoltage: cool, thanks!
<bencer> highvoltage: ups and ltsp modules ffe are still there, no updates :-/
<highvoltage> bencer: yeah you might want to ask in #ubuntu-release about that
<highvoltage> bencer: not sure if you follow #ubuntu-release...
<highvoltage> 15:36 < iulian> highvoltage: zentyal: I'd appreciate it if you could provide something more useful  than that, preferably some logs that show that it is indeed a low-risk update.
<bencer> highvoltage: https://launchpad.net/~bencer/+archive/zentyal-2.3-p/+packages
<highvoltage> bencer: ok, see #ubuntu-release and paste that link to iulian too please
#edubuntu 2012-09-05
<wtfcon> hey guys
<wtfcon> trying to upgrade from ubuntu 12.04 to 12.04.1 but its just not showing up
<wtfcon> any suggestions?
<stgraber> you won't see any prompt for 12.04 to 12.04.1. If you've kept doing your usual updates, you're already on 12.04.1
<wtfcon> oh I see
<wtfcon> thanks a lot mate!
<stgraber> np
<wtfcon> $  cat /etc/*issue*
<wtfcon> Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS \n \l
<wtfcon> nice ;)
<wtfcon> night fellas
<highvoltage> bencer, stgraber: FYI:
<highvoltage> 10:03 < th1a> yvl is just finishing reviewing how our LDAP module works with Zentyal.
<highvoltage> 10:09 < th1a> yvl: Can you give highvoltage a quick summary of what you did with the LDAP review?
<highvoltage> 10:10 < yvl> sure
<highvoltage> 10:10 < yvl> basically we're auto-parsing /etc/ldap.conf
<highvoltage> 10:10 < yvl> to figure out where people are stored
<highvoltage> 10:10 < yvl> and query for inetOrgPerson classes there
<highvoltage> 10:10 < yvl> we also assume that ldap server is local and on port 389
<highvoltage> 10:11 < yvl> so just installing schooltool.ldap on an edubuntu machine with zentyal running
<highvoltage> 10:11 < yvl> should let you log in as zentyal users configured in groups/users module
<highvoltage> (from #schooltool)
<highvoltage> yvl will send an email with more detailed status, there's a package in the schooltool ppa atm. so definitely not 12.10 ready but could be used in the future.
<stgraber> ok
<highvoltage> ogra_: still didn't get a call from customs?
<ogra_> highvoltage, nope, no trace yet
<highvoltage> :(
<faragello> can I install edubuntu from dvd on ubuntu without losing my existing files?
<highvoltage> it has an upgrade option that actually does a new installation but preserves your current home directory
<faragello> so I  need to choose update instead of new installation thank you
<faragello> I have ubuntu 12 and want to upgrade it to edubuntu but the installation option was to have them both as separate systems and choose which one to boot is there a way to add edubuntu files from the dvd to ubuntu without having two systems
<stgraber> faragello: just install the edubuntu-desktop package
<faragello> I thought of it but it is quite BIG and I do have it on the dvd can I install it from the dvd?
<stgraber> no
<stgraber> the DVD contains an image of an installed system, it doesn't contain the individual packages
<faragello> so I HAVE TO download it again?
<faragello> is there a way to use the image as a  repo?
<stgraber> no. As I said, the DVD only contains an image of an installed system, it doesn't contain the individual packages. So you can't use it as a repository
<stgraber> you can either use it to do a new install or replace an existing install. If you want to turn an existing install into an Edubuntu system, you need to install edubuntu-desktop and wait for these packages to download.
<faragello> thank you
#edubuntu 2012-09-06
<k4m3h4t3> can help me
<k4m3h4t3> somebody can help me
<alkisg> !Î±ÏÎº
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<k4m3h4t3> i was install edubuntu 12.04 but i not find ltsp
<k4m3h4t3> where is ltsp? if i using live cd i can finde ltsp
<alkisg> I think there's a check box in the installer that you need to select in order to install ltsp
<alkisg> Are you searching for the alternate CD "F4" method?
<k4m3h4t3> when i instal, i thick chexbox ltsp
<k4m3h4t3> but was finish i cant find
<alkisg> LTSP doesn't have a menu entry, if you're looking for that
<alkisg> Open a terminal,  and run this command to check if ltsp is installed: dpkg -l ltsp-server
<k4m3h4t3> mean i must install independen ltsp?
<alkisg> No, I mean you already installed it
<k4m3h4t3> not installad
<k4m3h4t3> so what should i do
<bencer> highvoltage: stgraber i've completed the ffe
<bencer> hopefully is approved soon and zentyal-samba hits the archive
<sternfan2012> Hi all - anyone available for some questions?
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
#edubuntu 2012-09-07
<OAGSVR> how do u solve problem with audio on client-side of ltsp system??
<OAGSVR> on a HP t5700 thin client?
<alkisg> highvoltage: uds => negative for you too?
<highvoltage> alkisg: nope
<alkisg> Ah, so you're going?
<alkisg> Cool
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
#edubuntu 2012-09-08
<TheProf> Good day! We have a student in our school who needs to use a webcam to interact with other students at another location.  We are running Edubuntu 12.04 very successfully.  I have purchased a webcam that is fully compatible with Ubuntu.  My question is: can I use the webcam with the thin client as is or must be be converted to a thick-client or some other client?
<stgraber> you can either use the machine as a fat client or run the software needing webcam access as a localapp (assuming you're talking about LTSP)
<TheProf> stgraber: Hello. Yes sorry I wasn't clear.  I am running LTSP.  I've run LTSP from back in the k12ltsp days always as thin clients only.  I was weary of using it as a fat client or another configuration because it required me to modify the server to act as an Internet proxy.
<TheProf> This caused teachers and others to just bypass everything by unplugging the thin clients and plugging their laptops right into the jack and getting online etc.
<stgraber> yeah, that's indeed a problem and not something you can easily workaround if you need access to the webcam
<TheProf> The student will be using Skype to communicate so perhaps the solution of running Skype as a local app would work?
<stgraber> yeah, skype as a localapp worked last I tried
<stgraber> though you'll indeed need your server to forward the network trafic, at least for that client (you can probably filter on the source IP to avoid other people using the ltsp network to get to the internet with their own machines)
<TheProf> stgraber: Thank you. It's either that option or I set up a standalone machine with edubuntu (without LTSP) and then have the webcam on it and it's own login.
#edubuntu 2012-09-09
<highvoltage> suggestions on questions we could ask in Edubuntu interviews?
<highvoltage> so far I have...
<highvoltage> 1. Please tell us about yourself and your organisation
<highvoltage> 2. How did you get involved in free software and Edubuntu? How do you use it in your organisation?
<highvoltage> (and going through old ubuntu interviews to get some more)
<highvoltage> I guess this is right in pleia2's ballpark
<highvoltage> pleia2: any suggestions perhaps?
<highvoltage> 3. What has your experience been deploying using free software in education? Do you have any advice for others out there who wish to do the same?
<highvoltage> I also added:
<highvoltage> 4. If you could choose any one thing that should improve in the Edubuntu
<highvoltage> project, what would that be? Would you be willing to get involved to
<highvoltage> make it happen?
<highvoltage> 5. What other things are you interested in? Is there something else that
<highvoltage> your organisation does that might be interesting to the Edubuntu community?
<highvoltage> sent those to 3 of the people we had on our interview list so far. I guess we could post the results every 2 weeks and start another round after the first one is published
<Android102> Hello everyone!
<Android102> There's a bug with the Weblive applet.
<highvoltage> that's stgraber's department
<highvoltage> Android102: feel free to mention the issue, he'll see it when he looks at his IRC session again :)
<Android102> All the applet says is Some images can't be downloaded. Please check the Java Console for details.
#edubuntu 2013-09-02
<highvoltage> stgraber: seems like adding ubiquity do depends made no difference
<highvoltage> haven't had time yet to look into that behaviour yet.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, I've got the Edubuntu amd64 daily synced here, just waiting for Beta 1 testing starts:)
<xnox> highvoltage: stgraber: i like how the boot menu has edubuntu logo. I think some flavours are missing that customization. And i don't think ubuntu logos are unified across: netboot, server & desktop images
<highvoltage> xnox: boot logo as in the plymouth theme or syslinux image?
<xnox> highvoltage: syslinux image, i believe.
<xnox> highvoltage: also ubiquity launcher icon is gone, it has been renamed from ubiquity-gtkui.desktop => ubiquity.desktop, maybe edubuntu settings package needs to be adjusted.
<highvoltage> ah yes. I know the netboot and minimal isos had old logos for a long long time
<highvoltage> stgraber: xnox uploaded a new ubiquity that skips the sso-plugin on edubuntu and I reverted the changes in edubuntu-live. I think this is the best way to do it. Can you make britney make that go through?
<xnox> ubiquity_2.15.16.dsc (soon to be uploaded)
<highvoltage> and edubuntu-live_13.08.3.dsc
<jbicha> I'm thinking GNOME Flashback should identify itself as "Unity" instead of as "GNOME"
<highvoltage> heh.
<highvoltage> well with compiz it's like Unity Flashback
<jbicha> because it uses indicators by default and other features that make it more similar to Unity than to GNOME Shell
<highvoltage> aaah, right.
<highvoltage> but it's been like that on ubuntu for a long time.
<jbicha> there's quite a few patches in desktop patches that adjust behavior only when "Unity" is running
<highvoltage> ah.
<jbicha> currently you get the gnome user help instead of the ubuntu-customized user help
#edubuntu 2013-09-03
<gassho> how do i upgrade to 13.04
<skaet> stgraber, highvoltage - I took a first pass at creating a beta 1 release note page for Edubuntu, by cloning Kubuntu's.   Its at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Edubuntu,  if you prefer a different format or location,  feel free to change.   Please update the link to notes on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1 if you want to point to a different location.   :-)
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, you want me to test the amd64 image? I've got it handy here
<highvoltage> skaet: thanks
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: won't hurt!
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, executing the Edubuntu amd64 test
<smartboyhw> But for LTSP Live, you will have to do it yourself:P
<gassho> how do i activate an internet connection that didn't fail during installing but fails now?
<gassho> ;s;
<ah-so> got internet up now after reinstalling
<gassho-> currently torrent-downloading 13.04
#edubuntu 2013-09-04
<highvoltage> hmm, xorg seems to crash on ltsp-live.
<highvoltage> (maybe related to upstart session stuff?)
<stgraber> highvoltage: are you getting ldm to show up at all?
<highvoltage> stgraber: nope, screen goes black -> plymouth -> black -> plymouth in a loop
<highvoltage> on the installed system it works fine.
<highvoltage> I haven't had a chance to look into it at all yet
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, then it's unlikely to be related to upstart
<stgraber> highvoltage: upstart user sessions only apply to sessions started through Xsession and that are on a whitelist, ldm is started directly through xinit and isn't whitelisted
<highvoltage> ah
<stgraber> highvoltage: what ISO did you test that stuff with?
<stgraber> I'll grab it here and see if I can reproduce the issue. In theory we don't touch the rootfs during installation so it's a bit surprising that it works post-install but not with ltsp-live...
<highvoltage> the last 13.10 one that got generated around 2 days ago iirc
<stgraber> architecture?
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I was surprised too. it happened on i386 and amd64
#edubuntu 2013-09-05
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, we have nothing much in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Edubuntu ? -.-
<alkisg> stgraber, highvoltage: hi guys, do you wanna talk about edubuntu 14.04 plans, samba 4 etc etc, in order to possibly combine efforts with our team?
<stgraber> alkisg: sure
<alkisg> OK, so... fist, what will edubuntu 14.04 use for authentication? ldap? sssd? samba 4? passwd?
<Phantomas> hello
<alkisg> *first
<stgraber> we'll use sssd on the clients using the AD provider to authenticate against a samba4 server
<stgraber> (or an AD if joining an existing domain)
<alkisg> So, the edubuntu server installation will have samba4 configured with some ubiquity plugin?
<stgraber> right, the Edubuntu DVD will let you install a standalone workstation or a domain workstation or a standalone LTSP server or a domain LTSP server or an Edubuntu Server (which will include a dozen optional roles)
<stgraber> for the server, only the base config will be done in Ubiquity, everything else will be done post-install through the web UI (deploying new services, creating new users, machines, configuring replication, ...)
<alkisg> LTSP clients will authenticate with regular ssh to the server though, right?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> and the server will itself be using sssd
<alkisg> Is it possible to select to install an ltsp server that is also an edubuntu server?
<alkisg> In that case, it will have both samba4 and sssd?
<stgraber> it won't be supported in the installer as we'd like to have people keep things separate, but nothing would prevent you from installing edubuntu-server post-install on an Edubuntu server
<stgraber> the way our stuff works, every service runs in a LXC container so you won't even see samba4 from your LTSP server in that case
<alkisg> Having 2 separate servers is sometimes difficult, e.g. here there are 3000+ labs that only have 10 computers and can't spare 2 of them as servers... one of them usually is the server + teacher seat...
<alkisg> Any links for code for all those^ ? Will there be available in some 14.04 alpha release soon?
<alkisg> s/labs/labs here in Greece/...
<stgraber> I uploaded edubuntu-server to the archive a few days back but it's still in NEW. The code is available at lp:~edubuntu-dev/edubuntu/edubuntu-server
<stgraber> though the current code won't work with 13.10, I need a bunch of fixes for sssd and samba4 that I'm slowly working on in my spare time
<alkisg> Thanks Stephane, we'll have a look and see where we can cooperate there... e.g. for a minimum, have ltsp-pnp work with the new edubuntu roles
<stgraber> our plan is to have everything be stored in the samba4 directory, so if your tools know how to deal with LDAP, you should be fine
<alkisg> In the 500+ schools here, we don't use ltsp-build-client but generate our chroot from the server's / with ltsp-pnp,
<alkisg> ...so we'll have to make sure that ltsp clients don't run samba4, don't run any lxc-based services etc,
<alkisg> and yup of course take care of the ldap integration
<skaet> stgraber, highvoltage - is http://www.edubuntu.org/news/13.10-beta1 where the announce should be pointing to?   I'm not getting that link showing anything useful, and don't want to send out announce email until its working.
#edubuntu 2014-09-02
<Gassho> How do I compile my kernels?
<Gassho> oh woah
<Gassho> is it time for 14.10 :O
#edubuntu 2014-09-07
<boospy> hello, hello
<boospy> anybody know the problem with the nvidiadriver and pxeboot?
<boospy> when i boot an client with pxe, nvidia works fine, but then i can't open Gnome Systemsettings on desktop.
<boospy> it crashes with an gl lilbraryerror
#edubuntu 2015-09-01
<peter92> i am running ltsp 14.04 and i am trying to run fat clients i have followed the Ubuntu wiki yet clients are still booting from thin clients instead of fat clients and i am not sure how to debug the problem
<PC-LTSP> i have been running Edubuntu ltsp trusty taher. i tried switching from thin client to fat client by following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients but it didn't run the fat client and i'm not sure what else to edit
#edubuntu 2015-09-03
<yarom> Hello, I am interested in edubuntu for the school where my children go to.  I have a dozen pc's with windows xp that are no longer being used (new system requirement).  I am very likely going to reuse them at the school environment and already played with Edubuntu on my own pc with my kids.  What or where can I find a how to document to setup the pc's in a school environment, centrally managed?
#edubuntu 2016-09-05
<confused> I am attempting to try the live version of Edubuntu on dvd-rom. It is asking for a login username and password. Any suggestions?
#edubuntu 2016-09-06
<highvoltage> confused_: chances are that something went wrong with downloading or burning the disk image
<highvoltage> confused_: when you boot from the edubuntu dvd, you can select 'check disc for errors' to confirm, but you should probably do a checksum of the iso you have downloaded and perhaps try to burn it at a lower speed
<highvoltage> (you can also write it to usb which is often faster)
#edubuntu 2016-09-07
<Claudio> I'm trying to connect a client to a server edubuntu but I can't log in.
<Claudio> the server syslog report that can't find /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
<Claudio> any idea ?
#edubuntu 2016-09-09
<Claudio_> Help me... my client wont'login to a edubuntu server. Every time ask user and password and after the password reload the login page.
<Claudio_> Hallo
<Claudio_> #ltsp
#edubuntu 2019-09-06
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-utils (disco-proposed/main) [0.31-0ubuntu1.1 => 0.31-0ubuntu1.2] (core, edubuntu)
