#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-07
<hub> I just create the MOTUPhoto in wiki and its team in Launchpad
<magnon> oh! I'm in!
<magnon> dude
<magnon> hub
<magnon> you called it MOTOPhoto ;)
<ajmitch> hey magnon
<ajmitch> oh?
* ajmitch really doesn't like teams with names as generic as that - we run into namespace conflicts with launchpad
<ajmitch> as  it's meant to eventually be for multiple distros
<magnon> hub: I renamed it to MOTUPhoto
<Mez> hub - Photo Team ?
<mindwarp> anyone used x2x before?
<tseng> no, I use synergy
<tseng> it works with windows and has a clipboard
<mindwarp> yeah I got synergy to work no problem, just can't figure out x2x
<tseng> im not sure why you would want to
<mindwarp> oh purely out of challenge now
<mindwarp> I tried it before synergy
<mindwarp> and I dont want it to "defeat" me
<tseng> im happy to be defeated
<tseng> and laze away with my superior solution
<mindwarp> hehe
<mindwarp> wowz
<mindwarp> err didnt mean the z
<mindwarp> but that shared clipboard is amazing
<magnon> I have answered hub's creation and made https://launchpad.net/people/proaudio-team ;)
<hub> magnon: gah. thanks
<hub> for the renaming
<hub> I suck at  typing
<magnon> hehe
<hub> magnon: I have to fix the MOTUTeam page
<magnon> MOTUTeams :)
<YokoZar> I added 3 packages to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates that should be removed from Breezy universe.  Is this doable?
<LaserJock> YokoZar: I seriously doubt that they would be removed from Breezy, maybe for Dapper but I don't know if MorgueCandidates is really operational
<Lathiat> shawarma: yeh
<Lathiat> shawarma: give or take
<Lathiat> shawarma: if i put the brightness down
<Lathiat> shawarma: and the hard drive doesnt spin up too much
<Lathiat> shawarma: i got >5 once
<YokoZar> LaserJock: Well, winesetuptk in breezy universe actually conflicts with the wine package in breezy universe.  All it's doing is confusing people.
<YokoZar> The package serves literally no purpose.
<LaserJock> YokoZar: well, I'm not positive but I don't think there is anything that can be done for Breezy. Once it is released it is released unles is is something really critical
* ajmitch hopes his replacement creditcard comes soon
<farruinn> crimsun: my apologies for the debdiff I gave you on Saturady night. I didn't realize at the time that there would be no updates to breezy. Solfege won't compile in dapper yet because python2.4-gnome2-extras depends on libnautilus-burn3 which doesn't exist yet
<farruinn> (actually it's -burn3 that's needed, it currently depends on -burn2)
<Kyral> I see another typo has hit the buglist
<Kyral> I'll handle it, seems to be my speciality :P
<Kyral> hey Mez, for 3658 should I patch Dapper or Breezy?
<Mez> latest
<Kyral> so see if Sid has it...
<Kyral> Yah Dapper has it, same as Sid
<Kyral> Actually its fixed in the Dapper version
<Kyral> Should I comment and Reject?
<Kyral> and Launchpad died again...
<Kyral> I dunno, it doesn't like me today
<whiprush> Mez: around?
<mindwarp> whiprush - i think fridge should be wiki format until the "final edition" which would be posted on ubuntuforums
<mindwarp> any good reasons why it isnt?
<whiprush> not really
<whiprush> I think people putting articles on the wiki and then having the fridge just link to them would be cool though
<whiprush> since it'd look pretty similar.
<mindwarp> ah there is a good idea
<mindwarp> especially since it is already implemented
<whiprush> work is being done for more forums/wiki integration though
<whiprush> we have a spec on the wiki someplace with the crazy ideas
<mindwarp> gotcha
<whiprush> just plop some in there if you have any more
<crimsun> farruinn: ok, no prob
<LaserJock> dang, I can't last more than a couple minutes in #ubuntu
<crimsun> in terms of?
<LaserJock> crimsun:  I get a headache
<crimsun> heh
<farruinn> LaserJock: http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~horkana/junkmail/despair-linux/debian.jpg
<farruinn> LaserJock: /ignore * JOINS QUITS helps
<LaserJock> farruinn: does that work on a channel by channel basis?
<farruinn> funny, I was just wondering that myself :)
<farruinn> I guess you'd have to check your client docs
<LaserJock> hola \sh
<LaserJock> man, I think it takes a special kind of person to be able to handle all that noise
<\sh> LaserJock: evening :)
<\sh> LaserJock: and no...we're really not up for noise today
<\sh> all tired
<LaserJock> how goes UBZ?
<\sh> LaserJock: it's great..
<\sh> some new crack is being discussed here
<\sh> and all the people here, including siretart and I, are working like hell
<LaserJock> yeah, sounds like it
<magnon> crack? what crack :)
<magnon> I've just heard some ssh forwarded devices for sound, and removing all the menus :D
<\sh> magnon: NOT CRACK!!! new nifty crack ,)
<siretart> polly wanna cracker?
<LaserJock> I saw some pics today and read some summaries. I got kinda envious
<magnon> give it to jdub
<siretart> - CRACK *caugh* POLLY WANT CRACK!! *caugh*
<siretart> magnon: are you aware about this jack transition in debian?
<magnon> nope
<magnon> what's their crack?
<magnon> I never touched upon debian for these things, I just read debian-legal for fun sometimes :-P
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> magnon: well, as far as I understood it, they changed soname, so everything depending on it needs to be recompiled
<siretart> but there may be more issues
<magnon> aha
<magnon> well, does that bother me? :)
<siretart> magnon: perhaps you should ask pitti, see also his comment on this bug: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12212
<siretart> perhaps, I'm not sure. would need to take a closer look
<magnon> silly debian dependency :P
<magnon> I'll talk to him tomorrow
<magnon> and look at jack itself, most of all
<magnon> the good thing though, is that this bug is the only one filed against jack ;)
<crimsun> heh. Just wait til you see everything that build-deps on libjack0.80.0-dev
<crimsun> trust me, we'll need to have a JACK mini-transition
<magnon> sounds like fun
<crimsun> and we'll need to wait for a main uploader, probably Martin, to perform the merge>upload
<magnon> I'm also seeing that gst-jack is pending removal
<magnon> that shouldn't happen
<crimsun> it should be removed
<crimsun> upstream is completely reworking JACK support afaik
<magnon> hm, ok
<magnon> in that case, sure
<\sh> crimsun: siretart can prepare now the main upload ,-)
<crimsun> JACK support in 0.6 and 0.8 is cracked
<magnon> I know
<crimsun> \sh: oh, excellent!
* ajmitch wouldn't mind being able to upload :)
<crimsun> I joined -meeting too late to be able to see, but congrats, siretart :-)
<magnon> I remember just using alsasink/dmix and never caring
<\sh> ajmitch: u get your key stuff sorted out..please talk to magnon about the right utilities etc. to prepare a good keysigning party :)
<ajmitch> \sh: you assume I know anything about keysigning & how to run it
<\sh> ajmitch: well...actually i thought so :)
<\sh> ajmitch: because i'm the guy which is using gpg cli
<crimsun> heh, I'm organizing the one in two weeks when jdub visits
<ajmitch> \sh: I just saw that the script I was trying to use earlier needs fixed to set the right secret key
<magnon> hey hub
<hub> hi
<magnon> any nice pictures from my camera? :p
<hub> I have to process them
<hub> but I'm tempted to say that they are better than mine
<hub> I really need to get a 50mm f1.4
<LaserJock> ajmitch: have you seen signing-party ?
<hub> btw, what were the settings?
<hub> and I DHL tried to deliver my Nokia
<hub> :-(((((
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hmm?
<magnon> the settings? 1/90 and f/2.8 I think
<magnon> ISO1600
<LaserJock> ajmitch: for key signing parties
<hub> magnon: sounds the usual
<hub> magnon: most were at 1/60 f2
<hub> magnon: you were set a f2 and I switched to manual
<ajmitch> LaserJock: possibly...
<hub> magnon: definitely the viewfinder is nice
<magnon> it says in the metadata if you use exiftool
<magnon> hub: oh, ok, I thought it was 1/90 but I remembered 1/60, but it's crack to use 1/60 with a 50mm ;)
<magnon> the viewfinder is very nice, yes :)
<hub> yep I shoud try to use my own packages :-)
<hub> ExifTool still hasn't been uploaded :-/
<hub> holy fsck
<magnon> I should have to package some nef utilities
<hub> magnon: I have some in the pipe
<magnon> I think siretart has a bit much to do to upload packages :)
<siretart> thanks crimsun
<ajmitch> hub: this is why we are rewriting revu - so that we can manage this more easily :)
<hub> ajmitch: make sense :-)
<siretart> there is the cabot package that could be useful
<hub> ajmitch: or gimme the upload privileges now that a/ GPG key is signed b/ I signed the code of conduct :-)
<magnon> hub: you'd have to be approved as MOTU though
<magnon> which has to be done by... who again?
<ajmitch> hub: haha
<ajmitch> tech board :)
<magnon> tech board. right
<ajmitch> first you become a member at the CC meeting
* ajmitch can't recall if you are...
<hub> I'm not AFAIK
<ajmitch> hub: none of us here can give upload privilges
<Sepheebear> hey anybody up for answering a python packaging question?
* \sh tries to sleep now...good night dudes...cu tomorrow
<ajmitch> \sh: signed keys should be in your mailbox - you should decrypt & import each
<ajmitch> night \sh_away
<magnon> night \sh
<ajmitch> hub: I should be able to do yours as well now
<siretart> gn8
<Sepheebear> im working with a package "pympd": http://pympd.sourceforge.de
<ajmitch> siretart: and I found your fingerprint also
<siretart> ajmitch: great. I'll sign your key tomorrow, need some sleep now
<Sepheebear> the package installs icon.png and glade files inside /usr/lib instead of /usr/share
<Sepheebear> how can i work around that to make the package lintian clean?
<LaserJock> siretart: is there a plan for REVU2 for a version column perhaps?
* hub has just removed dozen of spam out of the abiword wiki
<hub> ajmitch: it is fine. I'll do what is needed to be accepted. these are the rules :-)
<ajmitch> hub: hopefully if you check your inbox you'll have encrypted messages from me.. decrypt & import to get your signed keys
<hub> ajmitch: seen it
<hub> done
<hub> about to send the key
<ajmitch> ok
<LaserJock> I am interested in having a MOTUScience team? Is there any interest?
<minghua> LaserJock: I'm interested, but I doubt I can contribute much
<LaserJock> Is it necessary to get a MOTU on board to form a team? Seems like it would
<hub> ajmitch: btw, what script do you use to send signed keys?
<minghua> I believe so
<magnon> LaserJock: No
<magnon> LaserJock: Both me and hub created teams today :P
<magnon> it's just that you won't have pakcages in automatically
<ajmitch> hub: one from pitti, he provided it at UDU iirc
<ajmitch> did it send the right key? :)
<LaserJock> magnon: how did you do it?
<magnon> LaserJock: launchpad, create team, made a wikipage
<hub> ajmitch: yeah it did.
<hub> ajmitch: I was not at UDU
<hub> ajmitch: perhaps one should package this script
<ajmitch> it used to be on the wiki, will hopefully put it up somewhere tomorrow
<hub> magnon: btw, what is that metering mode you use by default on the Nikon
<crimsun> Sepheebear: mv them in debian/rules before the deb is built
* Kyral wonders if he should hold a GPG workshop
<hub> Kyral: yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I saw your earlier comments about generic naming of teams? Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
<hub> Kyral: that would be interesting anyway
<Kyral> At my school :D
<Sepheebear> let me know if you do Kyral, I could use it
<hub> Kyral: still
<Kyral> Yah I know
<Kyral> I just need like time
<Kyral> We ARE doing a quasi-installfest thing this weekend though :D
<Sepheebear> crimsun: the app breaks if i move them
<LaserJock> I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey useful when I was trying to get my key signed
<crimsun> Sepheebear: the source needs to be patched
<Kyral> Yah I have my signed
* Sepheebear breaks out the dpatch man pages and brews some coffee
<hub> LaserJock: yeah. read that
* Kyral wonders what logos he should use for the install day
<Sepheebear> another thing, moving them before the deb is built means adding the mv lines to install: or binary: ?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
* hub think about switching to dapper
<Kyral> Dapper is fun :D
<hub> yep
<hub> and I'll get the debian resync
<hub> so I can try to have fun with ufraw
* Kyral blinks?
<schweeb> lol, nice how that gnusolaris thing spammed the ubuntu-devel list with their announcement
<LaserJock> minghua: still around?
<tritium> jbailey, I saw you're assigned a bug for the gnome clock applet.  Is it possible to configure it to show the first day of the week as Sunday?
* tritium wonders why this is marked fixed: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314473
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> if anybody is interested I just made a MOTUScience team on launchapd (https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/)
<tritium> right on, LaserJock :)
<zakame> w00t!
<zakame> hmmm, does an upstream version be numbers only, or can letters be included, like 1.4.0.b9?  I'm asking because libmemcache has that particular version...
<LaserJock> zakame: is that in Debian?
<crimsun> upstream is generally everything in front of the first hyphen
<zakame> LaserJock: nope, new package in progress
<zakame> yes, generally...
<zakame> ... I was doing a debuild of libmemcache, it fails to generate a .diff.gz, even if the .tar.gz's already in ../
<zakame> AH! WAIT
<zakame> it should be .orig.tar.gz...
<crimsun> precisely
<crimsun> package_upstreamVersion.orig.tar.gz
<zakame> yeah... I had to repackage the source, it originally was a .tar.bz2
<zakame> ah, heaven, a .diff.gz generated :) thanks guys :D
<zakame> can't I use a orig.tar.bz2 upon package build?
<pef> hello
<LaserJock> hi
* zyga says morning
* LaserJock says good evening ;-) (at least for another hour)
<LaserJock> welcome back minghua
<minghua> LaserJock: Hi I'm back
<minghua> :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: so are you in a science field?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, I'm a graduate student major in materials science
<LaserJock> master or phd?
<minghua> phd
<LaserJock> sweet, I am 4th year physical chemistry grad student
<minghua> cool.
<minghua> LaserJock: so you want to organize a MOTUscience, are you subscribed to debian-science mailing list now?
<LaserJock> yes
<minghua> what are you planning to do with this MOTU?
<minghua> the science-related packages are just too diverse, from what I see
<LaserJock> well, I think that we need so science advacacy within MOTU and perhaps get some new packages built for ubuntu.
<minghua> for example, I don't use KDE, so a lot of plotting tools they discussed are new to me, and I don't know R at all
<minghua> LaserJock: that's always a good thing, sure
<LaserJock> well, I don't know that we have to "use" every tool just keep an eye on things and do the best we can
<minghua> and I think altough I can't do much packaging work, porting is relatively easy
<minghua> and maybe a FAQ/Howto to tell people "you can get these science related packages in ubuntu"
<LaserJock> there is some discussion on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=29919 about people wanting to get newer packages out
<minghua> I think debian-science people would like to see such a thing as well
<LaserJock> I think it would be good to let people put their time where their mouth ;-)
<LaserJock> +is
<minghua> yeah, good point
<LaserJock> I think it is harder in Debian because I get the feeling they want Maintainers whereas Ubuntu wants Contributors
<LaserJock> that is my feeling anyway
<LaserJock> if REVU2 takes off then it will be fairly simple for people to contribute
<minghua> sometimes people talks too much.  <rant>this also happens for chinese localization</rant>
<minghua> yes, I feel ubuntu is more open to contributors as well
<minghua> and that's a major point that attracts me
<LaserJock> well, I do think it is hard when people aren't given much of a chance to help
<minghua> yes, but someone have to step up to do the organization work
<LaserJock> yeah ;-)
* minghua looks at LaserJock :-)
<LaserJock> well, I am trying to also work on some better MOTU wiki documentation so people might have a better chance at learning to package and contribute
<LaserJock> for me as long as I am given some documentation, I can do OK. I just need some organization.
<rob^> LaserJock, we (the docteam) are looking at including that in our svn repo
<rob^> its going to be spec'ed soon I beleave
<LaserJock> rob^: including developer how-tos and stuff?
<rob^> at least a guide to motu
<rob^> most likly derived from the wiki one
<LaserJock> cool, I have a wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/DocTodo going for cleaning and revamping the MOTU wiki
<rob^> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-packaging-guide
<rob^> I've been lead to beleave it will have a motu focus
<LaserJock> that would make sense. I have seen it tossed around but haven't seen much work being done. Maybe I just haven't seen it. I wasn't sure if anything was going to come of it.
<minghua> rob^: I agree, I think most new ubuntu contributors would start from MOTU first
<minghua> such a guide would be very helpful
<LaserJock> rob^: I will keep and eye on that
<LaserJock> I gotta go to bed right now
<minghua> good night LaserJock
<LaserJock> minghua: do you have a launchpad account?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, minghua@lauchpad as well
<LaserJock> you can go to https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience and join the team there
<minghua> LaserJock: will do
<LaserJock> good night
<crimsun> you should con laserjock into making a metapackage for it
<crimsun> may also wish to check with edubuntu to see if they're planning to support higher ed
<crimsun> I suspect they're not related, but it doesn't hurt to ask
<minghua> crimsun: I suppose edubuntu is for, like, under 12?
<crimsun> elementary and middle schools is my impression
<crimsun> various US universities have loosely collected portions of scientific software
<crimsun> "Science" might be better as an entry for more precise packages
<minghua> I agree it won't hurt to ask, but I am afraid the goal is too different
<_Tonio_> morning
<keyes> hello
<keyes> siretart:  are you here?
<crimsun> he may be waking up soon
<crimsun> I think he's at UBZ, though
<nailbiter> Hi there. :) I'm a Debian defector who would like to put some work into a couple of Ubuntu packages (and hopefully qualify for mentorship); is there some Wiki page where this is all coordinated?
<Lathiat> heh debian defector
<Lathiat> nailbiter: we dont have "mentorship" as such
<minghua> nailbiter: I believe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good start
<Lathiat> its more a whole community guided sorta thing
<Lathiat> and yeh what minghua said
<minghua> REVU is probably the closest to mentorship
<nailbiter> Ok, thanks. I'll read up. :)
<mitsuhiko> does anyone know if ubuntu.com is down?
<nailbiter> Seems to be up
<siretart> morning folks!
<slomo> hi siretart
<dholbach> hi slomo, siretart
<slomo> hi dholbach :)
<slomo> siretart: i'll send a mail about the ffmpeg stuff to -devel later today or tomorrow morning... you remember it?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | We did it - we released Breezy! :) | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<siretart> slomo: I very well remember it
<siretart> slomo: I assume you mainly ask for status update about the ffmpeg issue, right?
<slomo> siretart: crimsun wanted to help me with it, moving vlc to multiverse etc
<slomo> siretart: nope... i want to get some attention to that issue to get it done now ;) mailing elmo about it doesn't work...
<siretart> right now, no
<slomo> siretart: he probably wants to see comments by other people about it
<siretart> thats an very good idea
<siretart> okay, I'll wait for your email, and perhaps bug mdz in person about that
<slomo> ok, thanks :)
<slomo> bah... i need coffee :(
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<\sh> moins sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<sistpoty> what time is it in montreal?
<siretart> 06:44
<\sh> 6:45am
<siretart> ;)
<sistpoty> phew, you're up early ;)
<siretart> we just got up
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> time for breakfast...when siretart hurries up and have a shower :)
<siretart> sistpoty: because we need to be at 9am sharp in the meeting room
<sistpoty> wow
<siretart> jdub said that it was sharp as in 'bleeding edge' sharp ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
* sistpoty has just been looking at revu2spec progress
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<siretart> sistpoty: yes, I thing the spec is about to be approved, needs some more cleeanups
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> btw.: great work you've done so far ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: I discussed with daniel silverstone about revu3, that one will be dapper+1 and completly integrated into launchpad
<sistpoty> r0cks!
<siretart> for revu2, we 'just' use authentication stuff from lp
<sistpoty> sounds really good so far... and I won't have to worry about user management pages :)
<siretart> perhaps we'll get another name, but that anyway, we need to keep the code clean, so integration is possible
<sistpoty> keeping the code clean is always a good idea :)
<siretart> hehe
<sistpoty> btw.: you could include some diagrams from revu2 in the spec (or link to them)
<TMM> owww, revu2? we are going to get new and shiny stuff? :)
<sistpoty> TMM: yes :)
<sistpoty> TMM: but imo will still take some time until it's ready
<TMM> neat
<TMM> I like new and shiny
<sistpoty> TMM: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/revu2/trunk/ <- actually nothing is working yet, but just to get the idea of "shiny" ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: yes, together with some proposed scetches about the ui
<siretart> I think I'll have a bit time today for writing more about implementation details, I wanted the design approved first
<sistpoty> siretart: cool :)
<siretart> but I think its mostly okay
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> okay, shower now, cu later
<sistpoty> cya later... hf ;)
<TMM> sistpoty, if it will be easier to find your own uploads, and get mail notifications for new comments, I will be a happier man :)
<sistpoty> TMM: it will... siretart has been busy with the spec on the wiki - REVU2Spec
<\sh> TMM: revu2 is a step forward to revu3 which could be (and should be) included into launchpad
<TMM> \sh, cool
<TMM> sistpoty, I'll have a look, perhaps I have a couple of cents to donate there :)
<\sh> we had some nice chats with kinnison about this
<\sh> and today, the keynote will us explain Soyuz
<sistpoty> what is Soyuz?
<\sh> wait a moment...
<\sh> trying to find the spec or doc to it
<\sh> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzSpecification
<sistpoty> thx
<slomo> ok, i need to go ;) the next lecture starts... bye bye :)
<\sh> sistpoty: but the most interesting part of launchpad is malone
<\sh> sistpoty: and u want to read this : https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc
* sistpoty is off again
<sistpoty> cya
<\sh> jo...breakfast time now
<\sh> laters
<TMM> yeah
<TMM> my xen tool stuff is almost done :)
<TMM> http://braam.sytes.net/~hp/xen/xen-suse10.png http://braam.sytes.net/~hp/xen/xen-ubuntu.png
<TMM> :)
<schweeb> TMM: cool.  I'm about to make a Xen server myself... buying some nice new hardware within the week
<TMM> schweeb, http://braam.sytes.net/~hp/xen/Xen-Ubuntu-QND-HOWTO.txt
<TMM> :)
<schweeb> yea, looking at that now
<dholbach> hey schweeb
<schweeb> I've done it before (and I've done UML before) but a quick howto is always helpful, heh
<schweeb> what up dholbach
<TMM> schweeb, that should get you going
<dholbach> schweeb: preparing some BOF stuff :)
<schweeb> almost time for my morning meeting for ze germans :(
<TMM> once this is done, I'm going to upload a bunch of debian packages to revu, then get shot down probably, then retry, get shot down again, untill it is in ;)
<schweeb> TMM: the utils you won't have a problem with, it's the kernel
<TMM> well, it is ubuntu patches + xen patches, I was very careful
<schweeb> you're going to keep getting shot down until they come up with a better release cycle, or until Xen is in the main kernel
<schweeb> the problem is
<schweeb> you're going to have to deal w/ the fact that the security team isn't responsible for maintaining it
<TMM> it should be acceptable, all the hard work for merging ubuntu patches with xen patches is done
<TMM> I'm going to have to maintain it anyway
<schweeb> right... but they'll probably only allow it in source form
<TMM> that is fine
<schweeb> or maybe even only patch form
<TMM> that is fine too
<schweeb> well, at least you've got the time and dedication then
<schweeb> I'm not much of a devel, so I stay out of that crap... I just package
<schweeb> dholbach: which BOF?
<dholbach> power management configuration, bugs best practices, test plans, inclusion of docs, some a11y related ones, ...
<schweeb> speaking of power mgmt, breezy rocks.... never thought I'd have suspend on this IBM/Lenovo X41
<Kyral> Mornin'
<TMM> I'm getting paid to do this, so, I don't mind too much, I would like to see it in ubuntu, get other people to enjoy my work :)
<schweeb> TMM: ahhh, nice
<zakame> hi all
<schweeb> Xen is just kind of a hobby for me
<Kyral> Xen? Hmm?
<schweeb> as is UML
<schweeb> I'd like to get my hands on an LPAR at work one of these days
<TMM> xen totally blows uml away
<schweeb> oh, no kidding
<TMM> and, for linux guests it blows vmware away too :)
<Kyral> TMM: Some of the guys at my collge work a lot with Xen
<schweeb> but just patching a kernel with SKAS is a little less intrusive than Xen
<schweeb> and when you have no physical or console access  to your server, you kinda take that route
<TMM> I wouldn't know about intrusive :) xen patches god fuck all, and so do the ubuntu patches
<TMM> was very nice work to merge the two
<schweeb> speaking of that
<schweeb> I fucked up my server again, because I managed to forget a "&& sleep 90 && reboot"
<TMM> especially the irq routing patches for i386 where 'challenging'
<schweeb> it's just stuck there with a bridged network that doesn't work to the outside world
<TMM> that is cool speak for 'totally sucked'
<schweeb> TMM: how does your employer use Xen? just curious
<TMM> as a vmware alternative
<TMM> 'we' are a service provider, and we get more and more inquiries about linux, so, they hired me to do the rnd on products and alternatives for existing solutions
<TMM> one of which is vmware
<Kyral> Xen rules
<Kyral> I'm gonna "Xenify" my box ;P
<TMM> and, to be able to sell it more easily, I figured there needed to be a gui config thingy
<nailbiter> vserver might be a more efficient alternative for virtual hosting arrangements
<TMM> so, here it is, almost
<Kyral> main Ubuntu system on Domain 0, then run a webserver offa Domain 1
<TMM> nailbiter, with vserver solutions you can not migrate a service to another server that is less busy
<nailbiter> TMM: That's true
<schweeb> vserver isn't a complete virtualized solution though, afaik
<TMM> nailbiter, I'm also making a xen managemnt daemon that will keep an eye on the loads of the different xen machines, and migrate services automagically
<schweeb> and Xen has better performance
<TMM> schweeb, no, it isn't
<TMM> I think people are going to like my 'create domu' druids
<nailbiter> schweeb: Well, vserver imposes almost zero overhead
<TMM> nailbiter, xen has a worst case overhead of 8% :)
<TMM> and a typical overhead of 2%
<nailbiter> That's not bad, I guess. :)
<TMM> vmware is a lot worse anyway
<TMM> and uml is even more terrible
<nailbiter> I agree--even with the skas patches, UML performance is still pretty horrible
<schweeb> speaking of virtualization
<schweeb> I need to be a little less virtual, and a little more physically at work
<schweeb> later
<nailbiter> Bye. :)
<nailbiter> I have to say that Xen's ability to dump and restore state is really funky. :)
<schweeb> I haven't been physically at work for a week... <3 telecommunication
<TMM> schweeb, with xen you can give a domu access to physical pci devices
<schweeb> nailbiter: if by funky you mean totally awesome
<schweeb> TMM: so I hear
* schweeb leaves for real
<nailbiter> TMM: That might be an interesting way to reverse-engineer some drivers
<TMM> nailbiter, I don't think xen interferes at all, I doubt it is going to help
<nailbiter> TMM: It can't snoop on/intercept hardware accesses?
<TMM> nailbiter, afaik it just gives a domu access to the pci memory range of the pci card in question, I don't think there is a lot of opportunity to do any snooping
<nailbiter> If I can't get my GPG key signed for awhile, should I just submit debdiffs for review instead of uploading to REVU?
<dholbach> nailbiter: afaik you don't need it signed, just uploaded to a keyserver
<siretart> we don't require signed keys for revu
<TMM> the signed part is said to be mandatory, but in practice it'll work with an unsigned one
<siretart> but since contributors ry to become motus themself, it is a very good idea to get their key signed ;)
<nailbiter> Ah, I see. :) Thanks for that
<siretart> boah, this telus network is really oerloaded :/
<siretart> typeing is really really laggy over here
<zakame> hey ajmitch_
<siretart> morning ajmitch_
<\sh> moins ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> hi
<TMM> sarge doesn't like the ubuntu kernel very much :)
<jbailey> tritium: First day of week issues are locales issues.  Please file a bug in bugzilla if one doesn't exist already.
<K_Dallas> Hi guys! I was told to ask here if there is any plan to release tetex3 for ubuntu anytime soon? thanks
<slomo_> ajmitch_: ross accepted my monodoc patch and fixed the python-gdbm stuff... but it will get on dep-wait after syncing because of monodoc 1.1.9 :/
<ajmitch_> ok
<slomo_> ugly xsp... it's currently holding of everything... daniels was very happy that dbus 0.5 needs monodoc 1.1.9 too ;)
<tseng> im sure he was
<tseng> how can we get xsp done now
<slomo_> moving the source and the mono-xsp-base package to main, everything else to universe will be sufficient...
<slomo_> or we could upload a monodoc package with an included dh_installxsp until then
<slomo_> ajmitch_: maybe you want to ask mdz directly if he wants to take a look at it or something... i have to do university stuff atm
<chillywilly> lalala
<Kyral> yo
<Kyral> Um...I was looking at the build logs and....dash builds fine in my dapper pbuilder...
<Kyral> and the build log for i386 says its failing
<Kyral> hey farruinn, bye farruinn ;P
<farruinn> hehe, cya
<slomo_> hi Kyral, bye farruinn ;
<slomo_> ;)
<farruinn> did I miss something? am I going somewhere?
<slomo_> hehe... probably not ;) i thought Kyral knows more than me... for example that you will leave soon again ;)
<Kyral> Whee! 65 on Calc exam!
<LaserJock> Kyral: 65 out of what?
<Kyral> 100 ;P
<Kyral> Wahoo! Clarkson sync'd their mirror to Dapper :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: what was the average?
<Kyral> 56
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> My wife is a counselor and she always wondered why I got excited when I got 60's on exams
<Kyral> I really wanna know if I should somehow comment that for some reason dash builds in my Dapper PBuilder, though its failing in the buildlogs
<LaserJock> Kyral: for the same arch?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> i386
<LaserJock> is that from Dapper source?
<Kyral> yup
<LaserJock> Kyral: I need to make a Dapper pbuilder and then I will try it out
<Kyral> I should put a howto on how to make one from a Breezy PBuilder
<\sh> Kyral: update PbuilderHowto
<Kyral> I will when my homework is done :D
<Kyral> \sh, should I comment on Dash somehow? Or how do I make pbuilder generate a .build file?
<\sh> Kyral: hum? for what do u need a .build file?
<Kyral> I dunno, because on the daily build logs, dash is failing on i386, yet it builds fine in my Dapper PBuilder. I think I should need a .build file to "prove" that it builds ;P
<\sh> Kyral: no....check the buildlog of the buildd
<Kyral> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/d/dash/0.5.2-8/dash_0.5.2-8_20051102-0010-i386-failed.gz <--This right?
<\sh> Kyral: state out the architecture...and ping infinity or lamont (when they have time during their bofs, i think they'll have a look at it)
<Kyral> okay
<\sh> Kyral: well...the problem is dietlibc-dev, ask infinity or lamont about this issue
<Kyral> yah, thats what puzzles me. Its building perfectly fine in my pbuilder....
<\sh> Kyral: u build something with your breezy pbuilder? and updated it later on to dapper?
<\sh> Kyral: it can be that your package cache for dapper is not correct
<Kyral> I made a Dapper Builder from my Breezy one. Then I cleaned it before I did anything
<\sh> Kyral: u cleaned as well the installed packages?
<Kyral> infact when I updated it had to make a new cache because the cache got wiped out
<\sh> Kyral: hmm..try to use update and --override-config .. see what happens
<Kyral> the command is different because I still have my Breezy PBuilder so I have to specify which config and tgz to use
<Kyral> alias dpbUI='sudo pbuilder update --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/dapper-base.tgz --distribution dapper --configfile /etc/dapper-pbuilderrc --override-config'
<\sh> Kyral: hmmm...u should have a look on pbuilder-distribution.sh in /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/
<\sh> Kyral: make sure, u don't use the same package storage directory
<Kyral> I don't I have a separate apt-cache for each one
<Kyral> dapper-aptcache and breezy-aptcache
<farruinn> Kyral: that method you mentioned, making the dapper pbuilder from the breezy one, isn't that the correct way?
<farruinn> because that's what's on the howto
<farruinn> it could be clearer though
<Kyral> Yha I think so
<Kyral> I copied it from there then made changes so I could specify which one I wanted
<keyes> hello guy, I want to build a package for you (polymer, a GNOME theme for KDE apps) but the upstream tarball is a .tar.bz2 and dh_make give me this error:
<keyes> Source file is a bz2 but bzip2 or gzip not available at /usr/bin/dh_make line 409, <STDIN> line 2.
<keyes> Of course bzip2 is installed
<keyes> must I uncompress the tarball and compress it with GZIP (works fine)?
<farruinn> that's what I would suggest
<keyes> fine
<LaserJock> hi guys
<mindwarp-school> hey whats up
<LaserJock> well, I made a MOTUScience team on launchpad
<rbelem> LaserJock: is there a MOTUAudio on launchpad?
<LaserJock> yeah I think so
<slomo_> rbelem: MOTUMedia is...
<LaserJock> but I think it is called MOTU Pro Audio
<rbelem> cool ;-)
<rbelem> slomo_: MOTUMedia is about video too?
<slomo_> rbelem: yes, everything multimedia related
<rbelem> slomo_: that's pretty cool ;-)
<rbelem> slomo_: I uploaded some multimedia related packages to REVU
<slomo_> rbelem: send me the urls to slomo@ubuntu.com and i'll take a look tomorrow :)
<bmonty_laptop> hi everyone
<slomo_> hi bmonty_laptop :)
<bmonty_laptop> hi LaserJock
<rbelem> hi bmonty_laptop
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop, how's it going?
<rbelem> slomo_: i have another ones to upload, like cinelerra, jahshaka, gephex
<mindwarp-school> rawr
<bmonty_laptop> life is good, I playing with my 4 day old and messing around on the computer :)
<rbelem> slomo_: i'll send to you ;-)
<rbelem> slomo_: thanks ;-)
<LaserJock> 4 day?
<slomo_> rbelem: ok :)
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: yeah, he was born last Friday
<LaserJock> CONGRATS!
<bmonty_laptop> thanks :)
* Kyral tosses bmonty_laptop a cigar as he works on his homework
<bmonty_laptop> be back in a few...
<Kyral> Now i have to make a presentation
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you have more than one pbuilder?
<Kyral> Yes
<LaserJock> how do you seperate them?
<Kyral> I'll tell ya' later, I have a presentation to make
<Kyral> okay? I'm really sorry I'm just really busy
<LaserJock> OK, I can understand that, I had to do that yesterday
<K_Dallas> Hi guys! I was told to ask here if there is any plan to release tetex3 for ubuntu anytime soon? thanks
<slomo_> K_Dallas: it's already in dapper
<LaserJock> dang, that is sweet. I hadn't realized that
<K_Dallas> great, since i am sort of new (used ubuntu a few months ago for the first time) i have to see if i have dapper in my sources.list but thanks it is a good news
<slomo_> crimsun_: ping?
<crimsun_> slomo_: pong
<slomo_> crimsun_: do you currently have time to review my ffmpeg mail?
<crimsun_> slomo_: sure
<slomo_> crimsun_: ok, mail sent... there are probably many mistakes... i definitly need sleep ;)
<crimsun_> slomo_: to my fungus.sh.nu acct?
<crimsun_> (my ubuntu.com one isn't forwarding correctly)
<slomo_> yes
<crimsun_> ok, thanks
<crimsun_> slomo_: looks good to me
<slomo_> anything you want to be added?
<crimsun_> slomo_: you probably also want to mention vlc's case (a universe package) where you can't build-dep on libavcodec-dev (which is in universe) because libpostproc-dev is in multiverse
<crimsun_> slomo_: and demoting everything to multiverse would resolve that issue
<slomo_> ok, will do... thanks for looking at it :)
<crimsun_> np, and thank you for the e-mail :-)
<slomo_> ok, mail to -devel sent
<crimsun_> yep, thanks.
* crimsun_ heads back to work
<keyes> so where must I sumbit my package?
<Mez> keyes, what package?
<keyes> olymer
<keyes> polymer
<keyes> a QT theme (not KDE)
<keyes> used to integrate QT/KDE apps in GNOME
<mindwarp> .\
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo_> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi slomo_
<sistpoty> ping siretart
<slomo_> sistpoty: good to meet you... what do you think about creating a MOTU Weird Languages team or something similar? ;) you seem to be interested in such languages...
<sistpoty> slomo_: sounds cool :)
<slomo_> sistpoty: fine :) do you want to create wikipage and LP team? ;) i'm busy with other stuff currently... and is the name ok?
<sistpoty> slomo_: the name might mislead to actually spoken/written languages maybe s.th. like "uncommon programming languages?"
<sistpoty> slomo_: I'm a little bit busy right now as well, I don't think I'll be getting to wiki/LP before weekend
<sistpoty> slomo_: but i can do it ;)
<slomo_> sistpoty: ok, then you do it :) what are you busy with atm? :)
<sistpoty> slomo_: btw.: here is a nice one: http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/
<sistpoty> slomo_: programming M$Access :(
<dredg> Programming Access to seek out and destroy all other copies of Access in existence?
<dredg> (ohpleaseohpleaseohplease)
<slomo_> sistpoty: hehe... shakespearelang is almost as cool as chef =) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_%28Programmiersprache%29
<sistpoty> slomo_: cool... i need to write some programs... er recipes *g*
<sistpoty> dredg: I don't think I'm this advanced in access yet, but I heard of the new vista virus, which might do the trick *g*
<siretart> sistpoty: pong
<sistpoty> siretart: I just read revu2 spec and tried to figure out, why we introduced "Upload" in the first place
<siretart> sistpoty: I  just updated the spec, it is called now CandidateSeries instead of Upload
<sistpoty> siretart: yep. I read it. but i'm still wondering if upload is any good/if it will still be enough... should we discuss this in a query?
<siretart> please
<siretart> yes please
<Kyral> Okay stupid question
<Kyral> how do I take a screenshot in XFCE
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-08
<zyga> hello
<zyga> anyone around ever used gramps?
<sistpoty> gn8 all
<yodabunny> hi
<yodabunny> anyone know a good p2p program for Ubuntu?
<slomo_> gn8 everybody
<Trashcan> limewire
<Trashcan> need to get the rpm and alien -d it
<Trashcan> that's an #ubuntu-offtopic thing though
<yodabunny> hmmm, sounds complicated, I'm a linux noob
<yodabunny> sorry
<yodabunny> I'll switch channels
<hub> btorrent
<\sh> siretart: ping
<siretart> \sh: pong
<siretart> \sh: are you upstairs? Im going there now
<Kyral> hey all
<farruinn> good evening
<Kyral> sup farruinn
<farruinn> mudding :)
<Kyral> MUDs?
<farruinn> yup: discworld.atuin.net
* Kyral recoils
<Kyral> I can't go near them, I don't wanna lose another year of my life to one
* Kyral wonders if he should apply for Ubuntu Membership at the next CC meeting...
<Kyral> Hmmm
<Kyral> Beep Media Player is now called Audacious
<seth_k> really
<seth_k> sounds a lot like Audacity
<seth_k> and they are both sound programs of a sort
<seth_k> meh
<Kyral> Yah, it got forked into it after the original people who made BMP stopped developing it in favor of BMPx
<Kyral> look at the Beep site
<seth_k> link?
<seth_k> bah, this pbuilder create keeps dying at libreadline
<Kyral> http://www.sosdg.org/~larne/w/BMP_Homepage
<seth_k> thanks
<seth_k> and bmpX is... gtk2 bmp?
<Kyral> Its mroe like BMP without XMMS
<farruinn> hmm... so it's more like... not beep
<\sh> bla blabla bla blabla
<farruinn> that was very profound
<\sh> yeah it was..and it was quite honest
<\sh> but forget what I said....
<\sh> I'm just referering to siretart who is actually drunk *eg*
<siretart> aha? intresting theory
<\sh> not?
<siretart> mainly very tired..
<\sh> ah no...i'm the guy
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> again?
<nailbiter> Kyral: They're forking Beep? Aw, crap.
<nailbiter>  I hope they maintain the plugin interface. I just wrote an AAC plugin for Beep. :-P
<\sh> beep is already forked....
<\sh> the spoon is named "Burp"
<farruinn> \sh: I can hear the voice of Jeff Waugh ringing through my ears: "ubuntu developers *DO NOT* have a drinking problem!" ;)
<nailbiter> Sometimes, I just wish folks would consolidate all this prime developer manpower instead of splintering into zillions of instant messenger/window manager/linux distro/media player projects
<\sh> farruinn: that is correct....
<\sh> farruinn: we don't have a problem with alcohol...
<\sh> but somehow without
<farruinn> I can see :)
<\sh> just joking....
<\sh> i'm reading specs right now
<\sh> stupid people don't know LTSP
<\sh> but they know somehow HPC
<\sh> hewlett packard computing
<\sh> harhar
<zakame> hi all
<Lathiat> tseng: http://static.flickr.com/28/55632873_4c0eba44ec.jpg :)
<whiprush> man
<whiprush> are people getting drunk?
<whiprush> should have gone to montreal!
<\sh> whiprush: for sure
<whiprush> give dholbach a nice big hug for me
<\sh> dholbach slept at least 2 or 3 hours before us
<whiprush> hahah
<\sh> actually siretart tries to sleep...and me will do this as well...
<whiprush> nite
<\sh> good night guys
<Tonio_> good morning all
<slomo_> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hi slomo ;)
<zakame> hi all
<\sh> moins
<slomo_> hi \sh :)
<slomo_> does someone know when the next TB meeting will be?
<pef> slomo : in 2 weeks, like usual I guess
<tseng> Lathiat: seen and enjoyed that one
<zakame> lo all
<Lathiat> tseng: :)
<Kyral> Mornin' all
<zakame> hi Kyral , Lathiat :)
<Kyral> farruinn \sh: I can hear the voice of Jeff Waugh ringing through my ears: "ubuntu developers *DO NOT* have a drinking problem!" ;) <---I have half a mind to put that line as my Forums sig ;P
<zakame> haha
<Kyral> Did anyone get pics of Matt and umm, damnit forgot his name, doing the Badger Dance?
<Kyral> hey ogra
<zakame> wb ogra
<ogra> morning
<Kyral> cyaall later
<pef> anyone alive ?
<ajmitch> yep
<pef> ah :] 
* ajmitch sees at least a few MOTUs alive in this room :)
<pef> ajmitch: in a debian/menu file, pathnames (bin, icon) should be absolute ? (cannot find anything in debian-policy)
<ajmitch> hm, we tend not to use debian/menu, and they should be relative in .desktop files
<pef> ok, so I will leave it as it is :)
<pef> ajmitch: I get promoted MOTU recently, how can I find if I'm able to upload to archive ?
<ajmitch> you try& upload, depends if elmo has processed your key
<pef> ok, thanks :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: hi
<ivoks> ann: http://www.ubuntu-hr.org/ningi
<ajmitch> hello ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> ajmitch: you are at UBZ?
<zakame> ivoks: cool
<ivoks> zakame: thanks
<zakame> ivoks: I read it too at -devel, it's a great idea imho :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: yep
<ivoks> thanks guys
<ivoks> we have a real problem with high cost of broadband connections
<ivoks> and we feel we aren't alone
<ivoks> so we decided to do something about that...
<ivoks> i just hope we can use Ubuntu in projects name
<zakame> ivoks: hehe same here in my locality
<zakame> hmm, does anyone use arch-buildpackage in a pbuilder chroot? if so, how do I invoke it?
<Yagisan> ivoks. ningi looks interesting. would the popcon data help ? http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<bigcx2> hey all
<Yagisan> G'day bigcx2
<bigcx2> can anyone tell me why plone-site (or one of its dependencies) conflicts xpdf???
<shawarma> Hey.... What happened to user-mode-linux in Breezy?
<tseng> i wonder if we will sync mysql 4.1
<ivoks> sorry, i was out for a launch
<ivoks> Yagisan: sure!
<zakame> ah, libmemcache is now pdebuilt and lintian-clean :)
<zakame> now, where's dput?
<tseng> dput to revu
<tseng> unless you are already in the keyring
<zakame> I am, already pinged siretart :D
<tseng> i meant the main keyring
<tseng> but that too
<zakame> just apt-get -y install dput in dapper-chroot
<zakame> hmm, forgot to do a -S -sa -rfakeroot :(
<siretart> huh?
<zakame> siretart: I pm'd you about needing upload privs to revu yesterday :)
<siretart> zakame: your key?
<zakame> siretart: 0xFA53851D
<zakame> siretart: I thought it was added already? :)
<jsgotangco> hey tseng
<tseng> hi jsgotangco
<zakame> hey dholbach
<tseng> bmonty: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/276
<dholbach> re :)
<tseng> bmonty: i use krb and ldap seperately, what is the idea of using them "together"?
<tseng> yay dholbach
<dholbach> hi tseng
<jsgotangco> hey dholbach
<slomo> crimsun: please read my latest mail on -devel about ffmpeg... i think, judging from matthew's and sam's comments it's best to leave it like it is (and move all ffmpeg stuff back to universe)... but we have to do something about faad2 beeing bundled with vlc imho
<Lathiat> slomo: from what i read we can rip the plugin out and put it in multiverse?
<zakame> gtg, night all
<slomo> Lathiat: when it can be built separately... sure... would probably be the best then to built it against our faad2 as it contains many fixes
<slomo> Lathiat: but i don't really now anything about vlc except what it is and that it contains the faad2 sources ;)
<Lathiat> heh ok
* Lathiat bed
<slomo> gn8 Lathiat :)
<jsgotangco> night Lathiat
<mindwarp> .
<slomo> hi mindwarp :)
<mindwarp> hey hows it going
<mindwarp> still no luck with elmo, I assume he is busy @ ubz
<slomo> i'm ok... only i bit tired ;) and yes, he's really busy there... nm :)
<slomo> do you have something new to upload? ;)
<mindwarp> actually I may in a couple hours, going to eat some cerial, then I should have a new package
<slomo> perfect :) an update to an already available package or something really new?
<mindwarp> fixing a .desktop of another package on dapper
<mindwarp> I could package something from scratch, but it would take a bit longer
<mindwarp> Also my laptop is actually AMD64, I installed i386 on it because of my lack of understanding on chroots, so I may format it today and throw a 32bit chroot on there
<mindwarp> so I can work on some AMD64 packages
<slomo> what do you mean by amd64 packages?
<mindwarp> I mean like compile them natively and test them without much effort
<slomo> ah ok... hehe, then you could start to fix some of the packages that don't build on amd64 if there are any left ;)
<mindwarp> ya thats what I was thinking
<mindwarp> chex time
<mindwarp> hey slomo, why is it in a packages install section, take abuse for example, the line will read: debian/abuse.desktop debian/abuse/usr/share/applications
<mindwarp> like how is the debian/abuse part parsed
<slomo> install --mode=644 debian/abuse.desktop debian/abuse/usr/share/applications/abuse.desktop
<slomo> ^--- that line?
<mindwarp> yeah
<slomo> ok, what's exactly the question? ;) it's in the install rule for the package and called there... install copies the file from debian/abuse.desktop to debian/abuse/usr/share/applications/abuse.desktop with 644 permissions
<mindwarp> I guess I thought that the desktop file should be in /usr/share/applications, and wasn't aware that debian/abuse/usr/share/applications existed?
<slomo> debian/abuse is the directory from which the deb file is created... debian/abuse/usr will be /usr in the binary package
<slomo> install works on real paths unlike dh_install
<mindwarp> ok so is the format always debian/packagename?
<slomo> in general... yes... but for packages with more than one binary package debian/tmp is used in general to hold all stuff... and afterwards everything is put into the corresponding debian/packagename
<Amaranth> slomo: everything gets dumped into debian/tmp then moved into debian/packagename based on what debian/packagename.files contains?
<slomo> or debian/packagename.install
<slomo> but in general yes... but you're obviously free to use debian/foo instead of debian/tmp
<slomo> really depends on the package
<mindwarp> oh If I just use .install via dh_install I can just use the real path name without appending that?
<slomo> try it ;) you can't break anything and you'll learn better by actually trying stuff :P for listing the package content you could use less foo.deb for example
<mindwarp> gotcha
<slomo> btw, dh_install is also the thing that interprets the .install files
* tseng remembers when he converted gtk#2 package away from using .install and .files
<tseng> that was annoying
<slomo> huh? you mean from .files to .install?
<tseng> it was a mixture
<tseng> of both
<tseng> we moved it all to just .install
<slomo> yes that's definitly better ;) why was it a mixture anyway?
<tseng> laziness
<thesaltydog> siretart, ping?
<slomo> crimsun: does our vlc have a libvlc.so somewhere?
<thesaltydog> Who can remove a package from REVU?
<slomo> crimsun: and i requested a move of ffmpeg (everything) back to universe at elmo... so everything will be fine ;)
<Tonio_> re
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
<\sh> LaserJock: ajmitch is at lunch
<LaserJock> \sh: ok, well maybe you can help. Is there a plan for the next MOTU meeting?
<\sh> is there no date on w.u.c/Calendar ?
<\sh> oh no..
<\sh> dunno actually...will try to find out later on from dholbach
<LaserJock> \sh: I was also wondering if ajmitch was going to write of the minutes. I thought he was but if he is busy I could probably do it
<\sh> LaserJock: ask him...i think he has right now some problems with his stolen laptop...
<\sh> LaserJock: i think he'll appreciate your help
<Tonio_> dholbach: I finally took a few minutes to make my wikipage
<dholbach> cool
<Tonio_> dholbach: what else is required for cc meeting ?
<Tonio_> it still needs a little improvement, but well, it is done
<dholbach> did you use launchpad  and the wiki to set yourself on the agenda?
<Tonio_> nope
<Tonio_> yes the agenda, that was the issue last time :)
<dholbach> it's all explained on CommunityCouncilAgenda, isn't it?
<Tonio_> I'm gonna check that
<Tonio_> dholbach: I'm gonna search, don't mind ;)
<Tonio_> I was just needing the global steps
<LaserJock> dholbach: is there a date/time for the next MOTU meeting?
<dholbach> is that something on wiki/MOTUMeeting?
<Tonio_> dholbach: yep, I'd much appreciate the info ;) don't wanna miss three times :)
<dholbach> yeah
<LaserJock> dholbach: it is not on MOTUMeeting and I don't really remember it being discussed
<dholbach> ok
<LaserJock> looking at the irc log it looks like the next date/time was supposed to be posted on the channel topic
<cevizoglu> does anyone know when breezy will have a firefox 1.5 package?
<dereks_> anyone here have the 770?
<slomo> does someone know if an upgrade from sarge to breezy works?
<dholbach> slomo: not supported
<slomo> dholbach: == not recommended but works in most cases? or not recommended and doesn't work?
<dholbach> i upgraded from sid + experimental to pre-warty :)
<Mithrandir> slomo: it should work quite well
<crimsun> slomo: Hi. Do you propose that we should disable the faad plugin for vlc?
<crimsun> cevizoglu: it won't.
<slomo> ok, i'll test it this weekend on my vserver ;)
<slomo> crimsun: i propose nothing ;) you know vlc better than me... can the faad2 stuff be splitted of and built separate as a different sourcepackage in universe? maybe against our faad2 in multiverse?
<slomo> crimsun: at least something has to be done about it... seems to be strange when we have faad2 in multiverse and a package containing exactly the same stuff in universe
<crimsun> slomo: yes, the faad2-built demuxer dynamic libraries can be packaged into a multiverse package
<slomo> crimsun: and in the case of faad2 it must be multiverse... you have to buy licenses for the patents at least when using it commercially
<slomo> crimsun: ok, then do it :) can it be built against the faad2 we have in multiverse?
<slomo> crimsun: our's contains many bugfixes
<crimsun> slomo: I'll try this weekend
<slomo> thanks... and i'll try to "fix" transcode this weekend :)
<slomo> btw, you mean multiverse sourcepackage, right?
<crimsun> slomo: np. You'll probably just want to drop the dpatches I used for transcode
<slomo> the patches that enable building against an external libavcodec?
<crimsun> slomo: sorry, I'm thinking vlc. Don't mind that.
<slomo> err... what patches do you mean?
<slomo> hehe ok :)
<slomo> crimsun: and you mean a multiverse _source_ package for the faad2 plugin, right?
<crimsun> slomo: no, something like vlc-plugin-faad2
<crimsun> slomo: I realize it's still messy because the source would still be included in vlc
<slomo> crimsun: yes... and that way you can't use our faad2 in multiverse :/
<slomo> anyway... better than nothing ;)
<crimsun> slomo: we should just check with Sam about Debian including our faad2, then
<seth_k> siretart, when you're around, can you change my login on REVU from seth@sethkinast.com -> seth@ubuntu.com (PGP keys are the same) thanks!
<siretart> seth_k: no
<siretart> seth_k: upload a package using that email adress in changelog. then such an account is created
<siretart> I know, its a stupid limitation, but I'm working on it
<slomo> crimsun: that will most probably never happen... iirc you need to buy licenses for patents when using it commercially
<seth_k> siretart, I did upload a package using that e-mail, ok
<seth_k> will do a password recovery thing then :)
<seth_k> thanks
<slomo> crimsun: the package is made by me btw ;)
<seth_k> mm, siretart, I uploaded a package using that e-mail, but when I try to recover password, the gpg block is blank
<crimsun> slomo: wait, is our faad2 any less free than marillat's?
<slomo> crimsun: no, it's from the same sources (ok, our's is a cvs snapshot but anyway)
<crimsun> mm messy
<slomo> crimsun: the code itself is GPL but AAC is covered by patents... similar to xvid, lame, mad, etc...
<crimsun> if vlc stays in universe, we wouldn't be able to build easily against libfaad2-dev
<seth_k> let me know if you figure anything out siretart, thanks. I can't comment on any of my packages now tho :/
<slomo> crimsun: yes that's the problem... hm, as dholbach suggested earlier today we definitly need a lawyer-team for such stuff...
<leonel> hello
<leonel> does the universe packages get updated as fast as  the packages from security  when a bug is found ?
<leonel> can I use  universe packages on a Internet producction server ?
<ivoks> i do
<leonel> is it  safe ?
<ivoks> there is no such thing as safe sex or safe programs :)
<leonel> not funny
<ivoks> which package are we talking about?
<LaserJock> leonel: well, I guess it depends on your definition of "safe"
<leonel> safe == " security patches applied as fast as  security.ubuntu "
<ivoks> leonel: it's not fast as debian, but we will get to that stage
<azeem> LaserJock: no problem
<ivoks> leonel: as you can see, for security patches, manpower is needed
<ivoks> leonel: and we lack (wo)men
<dredg> and good security people are very very hard to find
<ivoks> leonel: if it makes you feel any better, i use universe packages in production
<leonel> so  on a critital production environment it's better not use  universe packages
<ivoks> leonel: it is better to use main as much as possible, yes
<ivoks> leonel: but, unfortunetly, some stuff isn't in main
<leonel> ivoks, thanks  , that's my problem   i want packages that are on universe but I need to be sure they will get updated when a bug is found
<leonel> thanks
<LaserJock> azeem: do you think it is worth trying the ghemical CVS to see if the problem is fixed?
<ivoks> leonel: we will create better security team for universe soon
<ivoks> leonel: that wasn't possible with 10 people working on thousands of packages
<azeem> LaserJock: CVS has shuffled around the mopac stuff quite a bit
<ivoks> leonel: while ubuntu is getting popular, more people are coming in to contribute
<ivoks> leonel: that will leave some space for better security team
<leonel> ivoks, I know  and I'd like to have time to work with  ubuntu motu or any other place where I can be useful
<LaserJock> azeem: yea, that's right. dang. it would be nice to have something functional. I almost think at this point 1.02 would be better/
<ivoks> everyone is welcome allways
<azeem> LaserJock: ok, I have reproduced it on Debian unstable
<LaserJock> azeem: well, at least it's consistent ;(
<azeem> LaserJock: looks like some skew between libghemical and ghemical, probably we have some conflicting CVS changes in either/both
<LaserJock> azeem: OK, anything I can do to help?
<azeem> I'm recompiling with debugging symbols and try to make something out of the backtrace
<azeem> I can paste it somewhere once I have it, maybe you spot what's wrong
<LaserJock> azeem: ha, not likely but if would be cool to see it
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<azeem> LaserJock: it tries to add a bond, and the second atom doesn't exist, obviously
<LaserJock> azeem: is that for a single atom
<azeem> LaserJock: yeah, it never calls Project:AddAtom, actually
<azeem> but then, hrm.  One Atom struct /is/ there, only the second is NULL
<azeem> too late, already sent the mail
<LaserJock> well, what about adding a third atom?
<LaserJock> is that the same issue?
<azeem> how do you add two at once? :)
<azeem> it crashes as soon as I add one
<azeem> LaserJock: ok, I see. If you draw a bond by click-dragging, it works, if you release the mouse at the same position (i.e. just click), it segfaults
<LaserJock> azeem: click and drag to create two atoms bonded together
<azeem> doesn't matter which atom
<azeem> heh
<LaserJock> azeem: oh, too late ;-)
<Kyral> Yanno I love having an Ubuntu mirror on campus
<crimsun> mirrors.clarkson?
<Kyral> bingo ;P
<Kyral> well, mirror.clarkson.edu/pub/distributions
<Kyral> Yanno building this Sid Pbuilder would be a lot faster if we had our Debian mirror up
<\sh> slomo: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-09
<\sh> slomo: I replied to the debian maintainer already...send your dpatch as attachment..
<seth_k> siretart, sorry to bother but did you figure out the REVU thing... without being able to login I can't comment
<Kyral> Ouch Segfault in OO.org2
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hello LaserJock
<Kyral> This stinks. I need to make a Powerpoint and OO is segfaulting on me
<LaserJock_away> Kyral: on dapper or breezy?
<Kyral> dapper
* Kyral grumbles
<Kyral> Three different versions of OO.org2
<Kyral> all Segfault for the same reason
<Kyral> I am left with only one option
* Kyral fires up Bluefish
<Kyral> I can't make a proper PowerPoint
<Kyral> but I can make a damn good webpage that behaves like one!
<cevizoglu> PowerPoint is useless
<Kyral> cevizoglu, but I am presenting to a busniess class where PowerPoint is the rule unfortunately
<Kyral> and once again I will pull up with a subpar thing
<Kyral> but damnit if it won't be proper HTML!
<cevizoglu> :)
<Kyral> I may not have fancy backgrounds, but damnit if my XHTML and CSS won't conform to the standard!
<cevizoglu> CSS does backgrounds well
<Kyral> I know, I mean like a graphic ;P
<Kyral> I just wish I knew JavaScript so I could put in a nice transition when I click on the Next link, or hell, even map the Spacebar to the link
<cevizoglu> google taught me how to do that  :)
<Kyral> I don't have enought time to Google ;P
<Kyral> Would appreciate if you could dig something up :P
<hub> hi
* Kyral waves
<Kyral> Another reason I should take out MS, so i will never be expected to make a damn PowerPoint ;P
<crimsun> don't worry, I've already tried that
<crimsun> you'll end up using OpenOffice Impress instead
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I can't
<Kyral> its friggin' segfaulting
<cevizoglu> Kyral, I'll see if I can whip something up
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> I just want to get the basic stuff like content in tonight and basic structure
<Kyral> I can tweek it before class ;P
<schweeb> anyone know when the next CC meeting it?
<schweeb> *is
<Kyral> Like next Tuesday I believe
<cevizoglu> Kyral, here is a "changing picture" example... it uses settimeout and dhtml to change the image
<cevizoglu> http://www.subuntu.com/test.htm
<cevizoglu> you can grab the copy locally with curl
<cevizoglu> or view source from the browser, etc.
<schweeb> any MOTUs care to vouch for me for membership?  I was approved months ago, mako never did anything with my CoC, so I got lost in the mix :-/ I no longer have my IRC logs of that meeting too :(
<schweeb> now that I'm going to start contributing again, I figure I should get that all cleared up
<crimsun> schweeb: documented on the wiki, correct?
<Kyral> Actually I have to clean up my Wiki......I still don't know if I should go for Membership this time around...
<schweeb> crimsun: yea, previous work is still documented on the wiki
<schweeb> couple of packages repaired, general (occasionally) helpful IRC presence, etc...
<schweeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisScheib
<crimsun> schweeb: I'll vouch for you, sure, but you need to document your involvement a little more explicitly
<crimsun> links to bug reports, package work, etc. are all recommended
<schweeb> speaking of contribution... what's the "proper" way to view universe bugs in malone?
<schweeb> I couldn't figure it out
<crimsun> you mean the proper way to link to them?
<schweeb> no, view them, when you're looking for packages to fix and such
<crimsun> you should be able to just browse to Ubuntu
<schweeb> there doesn't seem to be a good way to filter to view universe only bugs
<LaserJock> schweeb: sometimes I use launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs but I don't think that gets everything
<schweeb> ah
<schweeb> cause this link doesn't work: https://launchpad.net/malone/assigned?name=motu
<schweeb> which is the one that I've been trying.
<schweeb> that's the link "assigned to: BLAH" gets you too from a normal bug view
<LaserJock> yeah, I find launchpad to be quite confusing
<schweeb> still got a few quirks, that's for sure
<schweeb> RequestExpired
<schweeb> A server error occurred.
<schweeb> wtf
<schweeb> :(
<Kyral> It happens
<Kyral> I usually give Launchpad a while then try again :P
<zakame> hi all
<schweeb> wait a sec... aren't most of the Ubuntu channels logged to somewhere?
<schweeb> if so, anyone know where?
<zakame> yep
<crimsun> fabbione's logs
<tritium> people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<zakame> and locoteam logs at ubuntu-de.org/irclogs
<schweeb> hopefully they go back ~6 months :)
<schweeb> and they do
<schweeb> score
<zakame> hi slomo
* Kyral wonders if he could get someone to vouch for him
<LaserJock> Kyral:hmm maybe you need to try when more people are around ;-)
<crimsun> Kyral: wiki url?
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<Kyral> Most of my contrib comes via the Forums
<Kyral> hence why I linked my Forum profile
<zakame> Kyral: ooh
<LaserJock> I know Lathiat's wiki is supposed to be good https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrentLloyd
<crimsun> Kyral: need a bit more involvement imo
<Kyral> Yah, this may change over the weekend
<Kyral> Holding an installfest :D
<zakame> Kyral: yeah, keep up the good work :D
<Kyral> and might wind up creating a LocoTeam for Potsdam NY
<Kyral> I have a lot of fun ideas (Like deploying Edubuntu into the Potsdam School District ;D)
<Kyral> The install day should be fun :D
<zakame> Hmmm, after uploading to REVU, what do I do next?
<crimsun> you wait.
<crimsun> or keep fixing and uploading
<zakame> crimsun: ok :)
<cevizoglu> are there any packages which use NP-Hard algorithms?
<cevizoglu> I'm researching NP-Hard right now and I might like to jump in
<crimsun> you'll have better luck keeping things separate
<schweeb> woohoo
<schweeb> <3
<schweeb> IRC logs rule
<cevizoglu> crimsun, are you talking to zakame?
<schweeb> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/archived/2005-05/ubuntu-meeting-2005-05-10.html
<crimsun> cevizoglu: no, you.
<zakame> schweeb: glad you got yours :)
<cevizoglu> crimsun, keep what separate?
<crimsun> cevizoglu: your research separate from packaging for the time being :p
<crimsun> keep in mind that any package dealing with a compiler or interpreting touches NP-hard
<crimsun> s/interpreting/interpreter/
<cevizoglu> crimsun, I don't want to add anything of mine to packaging, I want to understand other approaches to NP-hard
<crimsun> (as I'm sure you know, having to deal with grammars)
<cevizoglu> crimsun, If I add something, it would be apart from my own research
<crimsun> cevizoglu: I don't  _think_ there's any package specifically geared to facilitate it
<cevizoglu> crimsun, but there's no code which has to deal with NP-hard problems?
<schweeb> zakame: now I just need someone on the CC to throw me in the group on launchpad ;)
<crimsun> cevizoglu: any language compiler or interpreter does
<cevizoglu> crimsun, ok
<crimsun> but no, I doubt anyone has written a knapsack package specifically for the purpose of helping others understand P=NP, etc.
<crimsun> or at least why we theorize that P=NP
<schweeb> next comes motu-ness, which I still have quite a bit of work at
<zakame> schweeb: ooh
<schweeb> s/have/have to put/
<schweeb> silly job, interfering with my ubuntu stuff
<zakame> wb Kyral
<Kyral> Thanks
<Kyral> it seems that I broke Beagle somehow
<Kyral> and then I had to reboot which meant I had to recompile the NVidia Module
<farruinn> reboot == recompile modules? I don't follow
<zakame> Kyral: couldn't you just /etc/init.d/gdm stop,  rmmod nvidia && modprobe nvidia, then /etc/init.d/gdm start ?
<bmonty_laptop> hey alll
<bmonty_laptop> how is UBZ going?
<Kyral> zakame, nope
<Kyral> Okay, something is causing my CPU to spike violently
<Kyral> and I have no clue WTF it is
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<zakame> Kyral: is this always, or just upon/after bootup/
<Kyral> just now
<Kyral> and the System Monitor aint telling me whats doing it
<bmonty_laptop> hey LaserJock
<zakame> even top
<Kyral> top says its okay
<Kyral> but performance suggests that the CPU is going NUTS
<Kyral> Gah why is Beagle doing this?
<Kyral> I saw its usage spike in the downward slope of the last spike
<LaserJock> I never have gotten Beagle to work right. I think I had a lot of CPU spikes and such. I just ended up removing it
<Kyral> well, it may be that I removed like 200 MB worth of files in a partions that it was indexing ;P
<bmonty_laptop> that could be it :)
<zakame> Kyral: yeah, maybe it's updatedb updating
<Kyral> Yah it has a lot of tasks (Checked the status)
* Kyral holds on to something as another task hits
<Kyral> Here we go again!
<zakame> hmmm, LP's login time is too quick
<farruinn> as in the timeout?
<LaserJock> dang, gobby has 11 bugs in 3 days old or less
<zakame> yep... I logged in a while ago to do some translations, then, when committing them, I get an auth error telling me I'm not logged in :(
* Kyral wonders what more he should do to be able for Ubuntu Membership
* Kyral stops holding on to a rail
<Kyral> task done ;P
<Kyral> I spoke too soon *gets smashed away by the flood of indexing*
<LaserJock> gez, what the heck are you doing? Sound like your surfing or something?
<Kyral> Beagle is taking a load of CPU Power ;P
<LaserJock> can't you change the niceness
<Kyral> no...
<Kyral> WTF Netsplit?!
<Kyral> Was that just a NetSplit?
<farruinn> what was your first clue? :P
<Kyral> Its the first Split I've seen on Freenode
<crimsun> this is the Nth of N**N
<LaserJock> hi azeem
<Kyral> oy oy oy
<Kyral> someone wnats to know if the MOTU bugfixing is as fast as the main boys
<LaserJock> faster ;-)
<LaserJock> I really don't know, how would you tell?
<Kyral> no clue
<LaserJock> i guess you could look at the fixes/total bugs ratio
<Kyral> Has anyone gotten Google Earth to work on Linux yet?
<Kyral> FireAlarm! Very nice
<schweeb> Kyral: ?
<farruinn> I assume the fire alarm when off in his dorm
<schweeb> ah, yea... that tends to happen once the drunks start rolling in
<LaserJock> that's gotta be chilly
<schweeb> chilly? how?
<farruinn> we go to school in the same town (different schools though) and I had one at 3 AM last year. During winter :(
<schweeb> it's actually fairly warm out in MI at least
<schweeb> where you at farruinn
<farruinn> Potsdam, NY
<schweeb> ah
<schweeb> I live a bit north of Detroit, MI
<schweeb> and yea, it's a bit early, but some drunks could be rolling in now
<schweeb> those big red handles look mighty funny while drunk, hehe
<LaserJock> well, I'm in Reno, NV and it's fairly chilly
<LaserJock> I did my undergrad in Montana and it was fun to see all the people huddled out in the snow early in the morning
<schweeb> heh. we're a bit used to snow, to say the least
<LaserJock> we had some Hawiians and they hardly ever had much of anything on so they usually just ran fast from building to building ;-)
<LaserJock> has anybody made a dapper pbuilder recently?
<Kyral> Another one! This time PFD (Potsdam Fire Depo) came
<Kyral> LaserJock, I od
<Kyral> but I need shower + bed
<LaserJock> can I ask a really quick question first?
<schweeb> LaserJock: I had ethiopians at my school in MI, had never seen snow before
<schweeb> er not ethiopians, kenyans
<LaserJock> schweeb: yeah, I think we had some Texans like that ;-)
<schweeb> stupid alcohol, makes my brain slow
<LaserJock>  libreadline5: Depends: readline-common but it is not installed
<schweeb> cept it's snowed in Texas
<Kyral> LaserJock, nope, unless you wanna see me naked
<LaserJock>  Kyral: ^^ that's the error I am getting when I try to create a dapper pbuilder
<schweeb> LaserJock: do a man pbuilder, and see if there's an option to add extra packages
<schweeb> LaserJock: or you could find the file that pbuilder uses to determine the packages to install, and modify that manually (and file a bug)
<schweeb> not sure if it uses debootstrap or what
<schweeb> (I'd help, but I don't have debootstrap or pbuilder installed)
<LaserJock> dang, didn't work
<Mirno> :)
<LaserJock> alright, I gotta go but if I don't get it too work I will file a bug report
<tritium> good night, LaserJock
<LaserJock> cya tritium. I hope to have some more MOTUScience stuff this weekend
<tritium> LaserJock, cool
<Kyral> LJ
<Kyral> gimme a sec to get dressed
<LaserJock> but tomorrow I have to run the lasers so I don't know how much I can do
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok
<Kyral> and what does MOTUScience do?
<schweeb> LaserJock: file a bug anyways
<schweeb> I'm sure you're not the only one who has the problem
<LaserJock> well, I hope to take better care of science packages
<Kyral> I did too
<LaserJock> schweeb: will do
<schweeb> remember, bugs aren't just for helping you, they're for helping everyone
<schweeb> :)
<Kyral> but I just renamed my Breezy-base.tgz to Dapper-base.tgz and upgraded it to Dapper
<schweeb> even confirming bugs is helpful
<schweeb> oh
<Kyral> LaserJock, I may be interested in joining your MOTU Team
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> Kyral: you can use debootstrap --download-only iirc
<Kyral> schweeb, I already had it there and it was easier ;P
<schweeb> yea, it's easier at this point in devel, sure
<schweeb> :)
<LaserJock> well, I am trying to make a dapper pbuilder from scratch just to do it
<LaserJock> Kyral: if you are interested in the MOTUScience team go to https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/ and join
* Kyral srhsug
<Kyral> LJ: Tomorrow, tongiht I'm beat
<Kyral> and somehow getting lag like NUTS
<LaserJock> Kyral: me too
<LaserJock> good night everybody!
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<zyga> morning motus :)
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi vuntz
<zakame> hi all
<schweeb> yay, my membership status should be all set up RSN
<pef> hello
<Kyral> mornin'
<slomo_> hi Kyral
<Kyral> Okay, next CC meeting is at 1400 UTC. Which means....0900 EST?
<slomo_> Kyral: date --utc
<Kyral> EST is 5 hours behind UTC...
<Kyral> yah that would be right
<Kyral> I guess that solves the question as if I will go for Ubuntu Membership this time around
<Kyral> I'll be effectively at class at that time ;P
<Kyral> Wait next Tuesday.....8 AM Chem Lab...I will be in class ;P
<\sh> moins
<Kyral> mions?
<\sh> Kyral: no....moins is a short form of "moin moin" and means "good morning"
<Kyral> ah
<slomo_> hi \sh
<Kyral> moins to you then :D
<\sh> but it's a wonderful day...friday, i have a cold, my throat is sored somehow
* Kyral tosses \sh some green tea
<\sh> but good to know, that my body was fighting the cold until yesterday
<Kyral> UBZ winding down?
<\sh> looks like
<\sh> i was wondering how long it took to get ill...coming from germany with 20 degrees C to montreal with under 10 deg C
<Kyral> hmm, its 2 degrees C here
* Kyral ponders heavy jacket or hoodie
<\sh> well..running around only with a shirt and all our smoking bofs here...
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> This is one of the many reasons why I don't smoke ;P
<\sh> anyways...when I'm coming home..I have one week more to get rid of the cold
<\sh> but my headache is driving me crazy
<Kyral> Tea will be good for both I believe
<\sh> Kyral: do u know if they have roiboosh tea here?
<Kyral> roiboosh tea? Never heard of it. What is it?
<\sh> redbush tea :)
<Kyral> though it sounds familar
<\sh> well...i have to ask our ZA guys around here
<Kyral> You should be able to find it somewhere in Montreal
<Kyral> I mean its a huge city
<Kyral> "Its like New York City! Only Better!" - One of the locals I ran into a couple weeks ago
<\sh> ok breakfast
<zakame> ehlo everyone.name
<zakame> wb ogra
<koke> hey, I need some help with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libflash/+bug/3829
<koke> I'm pretty sure it has to be a naming policy on debian-policy
<koke> but I can't find it
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> hey zakame
<zakame> koke: hmm, if d-p ought to be strictly followed, that would have been libflashX, where X matches the SONAME
<zakame> dholbach: I was able to upload my first (library) package for Ubuntu yesterday :)
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> cool
<koke> zakame: it's libflash0c2
<zakame> koke: yep, just saw the LP page now :)  iirc there was already a gplflash metapackage...
<koke> maybe it could work to just change the descriptions from GPL Flash to gplflash
<zakame> koke: hmm, that's just the same, with only minor diff... not really viable unless you're a legalist :)
<koke> the only problem seems to be that people searches for gplflash
<koke> and get no results
<zakame> koke: hmmm, you're right
<zakame> koke: then again, I'd search for `flash' not `gplflash' 'coz I'm more concerned with getting a working flash implementation, from a user perspective :)
<mgalvin> hi all
<mgalvin> i got cegui_mk2 0.4.0 and ogre3d 1.0.5 built and uploaded to revu, would anyone possibly have some time to take a peek at them?
<zakame> hmmm, how do I know if someone is looking at my package in REVU?
<ajmitch> zakame: you don't, currently :)
<zakame> ajmitch: ah, ok :)  so how long does a package stay in REVU until its rejected or accepted?
<Lathiat> zakame: undefined
<zakame> hmm..
<hub> lathiat: we start the zeroconf bof
<Lathiat> hub: i just updated the ZeroCOnfSpec page
<Lathiat> hub: take a look and pass around :)
<zakame> bye all
<siretart_> does lucas nussbaum happen to be around here?
<siretart_> anyone knows if he already has some public archive for his motu-tools package?
* hunger is trying to follow the debian maintainer guide... but can't find dh_make. Was that replaced?
<slomo> hunger: apt-get install dh-make
<hunger> slomo: Oh, stupid me. I assumed it to be part of debhelper.
<hunger> slomo: Thanks!
<slomo> np :)
<schweeb> wassup ogra
<ogra> BOFs and meetings all over the place
<schweeb> finally got the whole membership all cleared up, all official in launchpad and everything  :)
<schweeb> now I should get me one of them pretty hostmasks :p
<schweeb> trolled malone and couldn't find much universe related to do earlier :(
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ping
<\sh> siretart: didn't we have a link to some pdfs with the content of Unfrgivens introdeveldocs?
<crimsun> schweeb: eh? There are tons of things
<siretart> \sh: introdeveldocs is on revu, I don't know where it is actually located
<\sh> siretart: ok....doesn't matter
<MOSMarauder> Hi FOLKS
<MOSMarauder> anyone here who knows about a THAI ubuntu version?
<minghua> MOSMarauder: Thai is noted as th in locale, right?
<minghua> MOSMarauder: if so, I doubt it, since Thai don't even have debian-installer translations
<MOSMarauder> shit
<MOSMarauder> thats exactly what i need
<MOSMarauder> a Thai DVD install
<MOSMarauder> or better THAI INstall DVD ;)
<MOSMarauder> cuz most times in TH they have slow inet conns
<minghua> MOSMarauder: good time to start a translation team :-)
<MOSMarauder> what i need to translate ?
<MOSMarauder> *G*
<Kyral> Heya
<minghua> MOSMarauder: I don't know if ubuntu has special translation teams.  I work in debian-installer translation team on Debian side
<MOSMarauder> k
<crimsun> rosetta's a good place to start, MOSMarauder
<MOSMarauder> been ther .. translated there some things -> german ;)
<MOSMarauder> e
<minghua> crimsun: I just skimmed rosetta packages, it seems they don't cover d-i, do they?
<crimsun> minghua: not in a position to answer, sorry. Ping Kamion or pitti.
<crimsun> (my hunch is that they don't cover d-i)
<minghua> crimsun: okay, it's not an important question anyway, I'd better not bother them :-)
<minghua> especially that I'm not planning to work for rosetta
* Kyral pokes LaserJock
<LaserJock> Kyral: hola
<Kyral> Hey Boss, I think I found a good proggy for MOTU Science
<LaserJock> yeah, what is it?
<Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1123
<Kyral> Even better they are actually looking for people to make debpacks for them
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, I saw that
<LaserJock> looks promising
<Kyral> Shall we contact them and offer to take care of Ubuntu/Debian?
<LaserJock> Kyral: if you want to. I think it looks pretty good, especially if they are looking for .deb maintainers
<Kyral> Cool
<Kyral> And I happen to have Sid, Sarge, Breezy, and Dapper PBuilders ;P
<LaserJock> yeah, I got Breezy and Dapper squared away today
<Kyral> I'll look to see how easy of a build it is
<Mez> Kyral: hehe I need a sid pbuild right now but it's broken
<Kyral> Whee! Looks like AutoConf! dh_make should have no problem
<Kyral> Mez I just made a Sarge PBuilder, copied the base.tgz, and upgraded it using Sid apt lines
<Mez> Kyral: it's just that the sid wont build thats all
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> LaserJock, you wanna email them?
<Kyral> You are the team leader after all
<LaserJock> ok, I will. also, check out our wiki page
<Kyral> Yah I have to add myself
<LaserJock> Kyral: been there, done that ;-)
<Kyral> eh?
<\sh> MOTUs / MOTUs wanna be LISTEN UP
* Kyral looks up
<Kyral> Yessir?
<\sh> We will schedule a special UBZ MOTU meeting tomorrow (Canadian time). Right now, we don't know the time but stay alarmed....a lot things have to be discussed, ressources assigned etc.
<crimsun> that sounds pretty dire
<crimsun> "alarmed?"
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<Kyral> Uhoh
<Kyral> Umm, LJ, tell me the time, I gotta go meet people for dinner, okay?
<Kyral> Or even better, someone send an email out over the Devel list
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, and I will email the FlowDesigner people
<Kyral> kk ;P
<ajmitch> \sh: I'll try & be awake then :)
<\sh> if anyone can update the topic, please do with the "pre" announcement of the meeting...somehow I can't do it
<crimsun> I don't have chanserv access for this channel, but others do
<\sh> ok...will deal later
<LaserJock> ajmitch: were you going to write up the minutes from the last meeting?
<\sh> with it
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-10
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I was.. :)
* ajmitch was naughty & bad
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I was just wondering if you were too busy, I thought I might volunteer to help
<ajmitch> I was busy, getting to UBZ & all
<LaserJock> that is what I thought
<keyes> hello
<LaserJock> can I get somebody's opinion on a licences?
<\sh> LaserJock: yeah...elmos :)
<keyes> Is Opera included in Multiverse?
<LaserJock> \sh: lol, but could you look at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4084 real quick?
<hub_> LaserJock: looks like plain GPL
<\sh> LaserJock: oh ok....elmo is just around here...I'll ask him straight away....
<\sh> hub_: na its not
<hub_> LaserJock: I mean LGPL
<hub_> linking against a GPL library
<LaserJock> well, I have no licensing experience. Is that OK? I wasn't quite sure what they were saying
<\sh> LaserJock: ok...approved...it just repeats the gpl
<\sh> LaserJock: elmo had a look and I trust him
<LaserJock> ok, good
<hub_> LaserJock: the thing is that it warns about the fact that it links against GPL which prevent writing proprietary module
<\sh> hub_: we need to sign keys
<LaserJock> ok, so as long as we did everything GPL/LGPL we would be ok?
<hub_> \sh: ok. we are you?
<hub_> were
<\sh> hub_: in the bar room...next to the meeting room
<hub_> qh ok
<Mez> \sh: there's a bar?
<Mez> down here ?
<\sh> i need some electricity for this baby here....
<hub_> Mez: yep
<\sh> only one hour left
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> I may have to go there
<Mez> mmm beer
<Mez> lol
<Mez> I think I'd get mugged if I walked into this room with a beer
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft | UBZ MOTU Meeting Tomorrow - Time will be released this evening (Montreal Time)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<Kyral> So what did I miss?
<LaserJock> Kyral: I sent an email to the FlowDesigner mailing list telling them about our intentions and I got the licence OK'd
<Kyral> Oh I knew the LGPL was okay
<LaserJock> Kyral: I just wanted to be sure of the second paragraph of it since I don't have any licensing experience ;-)
<Kyral> the LGPL comes directly from GNU
<Kyral> its legit ;P
<LaserJock> well, I knew that LGPL was OK but I wasn't sure about the linking to FFTW
<Kyral> isn;t FFTW also GPL/LGPL?
<cevizoglu> FFTW?
<cevizoglu> fast-fourier transform?
<LaserJock> Kyral: yes GPL
<LaserJock> cevizoglu: yeah
<Kyral> Yah so its all good
<Kyral> GPL linking to GPL is always good
<Kyral> or any of the official GNU licenses
<Kyral> Any word from the devs yet?
<Kyral> It looks like an easy package job, if the AutoConf is standard
<LaserJock> Kyral: no word from the devs, it might be a little while
<Kyral> no prob
<Kyral> no hurry
<Kyral> oh \sh, can I make a request about the meeting tomorrow?
<Kyral> I have something going on tomorrow between noon and like 2 PM EST(Montreal Time), so if you could not hold the meeting during that time it would be great :D
* Kyral sees the Ubuntu logo in the sky above his dorm and knows he is being summoned
<Kyral> Off to serve as a New User Mentor :P
<LaserJock> good luck ;-)
* cevizoglu sees a giant broken netboot image in the sky and runs
<bmonty_laptop> hi everyone
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> is everyone out partying at UBZ?
<zakame> probably :)
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going bmonty_laptop ?
<bmonty_laptop> how did the research propsal presentation go
<LaserJock> everything is good, I think ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> nice
<LaserJock> I will find out in Dec. if I get the fellowship
<bmonty_laptop> I'm watching this report on NBC about guys picking up boys over instant messenger....pretty sick
<zakame> gaah
<LaserJock> ugggh
<LaserJock> bbl, I gotta get home
<bmonty_laptop> haha, they just told the guys that the are on TV
<zakame> bye LaserJock :D
<bmonty_laptop> cya LaserJock
<LaserJock> cya
<bmonty_laptop> anyone know what the launchpad-dependencies package is?
<mloskot> hi all
<mloskot> Could someone explain me debian -> ubuntu packages adoption procedure?
<mloskot> Package X has only maintainer for Debian, then whos is responsible for adopting/testing it under Ubuntu, etc.
<zakame> mloskot: some packages from Debian main get synced in Ubuntu universe
<mloskot> zakame: automatically?
<zakame> mloskot: not really... see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
* mloskot is checking
<mloskot> zakame: I understand it now.
<zakame> mloskot: there are also debian packages in ubuntu that are maintained by universe maintainers and MOTUs
<mloskot> sure
<zakame> brb
<mloskot> Funny, I'm interested in moving Degian-GIS to Ubuntu, because there is no MOTU Team working on it (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams)
<mloskot> but as I see, there has been started Ubuntu GIS sub-project https://wiki.ubuntu.com//UbuntuGIS
<mloskot> Why this team is not listed in MOTU Teams list?
<bmonty_laptop> mloskot: probably because they didn't add themselves to that list
<thierry_> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto still valid or we need to set it for dapper?
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: yes, but that's the reason I couldn't find them ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: it has instructions for dapper near the bottom
<thierry_> k
<bmonty_laptop> basically build a breezy pbuilder, and then convert it to dapper
<thierry_> k but will it break my system, I mean will it make the whole system use dev packages?
<bmonty_laptop> mloskot: if you know how to work with packages, you could ask for a REVU account and put your packages there to be added to universe
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: no, the pbuilder runs in a chroot, it won't touch the system
<thierry_> cool thanks
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: I've sent my MOTU requrest to Oliver Grawert.
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: because I just started to work on my own packages
<bmonty_laptop> you don't need to be an MOTU to upload to REVU (I'm not an MOTU)
<mloskot> and I'd like tp push them to Univ
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: hm, I just read the Wiki and tried to follow official way of participation
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: but that's not a problem, sure
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: Yes, I have my own first small package, so first steps are behind me, then I could move on.
<mloskot> bmonty_laptop: OK, I'll learn REVU and push there my package(s).
<bmonty_laptop> mloskot: that would probably be the best way to get your package reviewed
<mloskot> ok
<bmonty_laptop> and hang out in this channel and help out :)
<mloskot> yes, that's what I'd like to do after hours.
<mloskot> BTW, I asked on #ubuntu but no answer, is there any Request Feature tool somewhere where I could put my request?
<bmonty_laptop> cool
<bmonty_laptop> mloskot: i'm sorry...request for what?
<bmonty_laptop> to move your GIS package to universe?
<mloskot> where I could submit new feature request, not about GIS, but i.e. small feature for GNOME menu ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> you should file a bug in lauchpad against the package with the feature you want
<mloskot> I see, thanks
<mloskot> (I mean Feature Request as something like Feature Request tool on SourceForge.net Tracker for hosted projects)
<mloskot> ok, thanks, see you later
<bmonty_laptop> launchpad would be the best place
<bmonty_laptop> cya mloskot
<mloskot> thanks
<thierry_> I think there's an error in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto at dapper change... /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/ doesn't point to a directory, not a file
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: there are a couple of files to change
<thierry_> bmonty_laptop : even the .gpg files?
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: specifically the pbuilderrc and sources.list
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: I changed breezy to dapper in pbuilderrc and sources.list and the chroot has dapper packages in it
<thierry_> k
<thierry_> thanks
<thierry_> bmonty_laptop : when I do sudo pbuilder update --override-config I get a error that no distribution is specified
<thierry_> could be an error and that we need to add --distribution dapper ?
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: I don't think so, did you specify the distribution as dapper in pbuilderrc?
<thierry_> yes
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: all I can say is follow all the instructions on the wiki
<bmonty_laptop> I could also email you my config files if you want
<thierry_> k... but I really wonder, because once I specified --distribution dapper everything worked fine
<bmonty_laptop> i don't think I had to do that, but if it works, great! :)
<thierry_> k
<thierry_> mmm I a MOTU wanabe who wonder where to go after pbuilder configuration...
<bmonty_laptop> build some packages!
<thierry_> in the REVU?
<thierry_> I know this is a common question but : Where is the easiest place to start?
<bmonty_laptop> no REVU packages are already built
<bmonty_laptop> do you know how packages work?
<bmonty_laptop> i.e. can you build a package from scratch?
<thierry_> bmonty_laptop : well not yet :)
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: first thing is to learn how packages work
<bmonty_laptop> read the Debian new maintainers guide
<thierry_> then go in the universe candidates and start trying to make a package?
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: yes, or you could work on bugs in Malone
<bmonty_laptop> once UBZ is done you could help with implementing some of the specs they come up with
<thierry_> mmm what is UBZ and what is exactly a spec (alredy heard of it but never understood what was one)
<bmonty_laptop> UBZ is the ubuntu developer conference going on in Montreal
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Below Zero
<bmonty_laptop> I'm not sure if I want to take a stab at defining what a specification is, but basically it is a document that describes the features a piece of software is supposed to have
<thierry_> k...
<jsgotangco> well a spec is more of a guide for developers and community people on what to work on for a target release
<bmonty_laptop> jsgotangco: probably  a better definition than I could give :)
<jsgotangco> basically during a devel conference like ubz, participants make tons of specs and have people assign them or have the other specs get adopted by the community to develop
<bmonty_laptop> jsgotangco: I'm thinking more along the lines of how it is defined in a software engineering text
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> sure in some LP BOFs that happens
<bmonty_laptop> jsgotangco: still I think we are thinking the same thing
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> but UBZ also has community stuff so theres no software development involved
<bmonty_laptop> yeah right, I bet those guys can't stop themselves from writing some code :)
<thierry_> at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot do I need to change all breezy for dapper?
<LaserJock> if you want a dapper pbuilder
<LaserJock> or chroot rather
<thierry_> well I want to build new packages, so this should for dapper right?
<LaserJock> yep
<thierry_> k thanks
<thierry_> I get E: No such script: dapper
<thierry_>  when I do sudo debootstrap [--variant=buildd]  [--arch i386]  breezy /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<freeflying> sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 dapper /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<freeflying> thierry:you shall do like that
<thierry_> I get E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/dapper
<freeflying> have configure your pbuilderrc correctly
<thierry_> well yes
<thierry_> I changed DISTRIBUTION= to dapper
<Kyral> You need help for a Dapper PBuilder?
<freeflying> you needn't do this step ,just update
<freeflying> there is help on wiki
<LaserJock> thierry_: are you makeing a chroot or a pbuilder?
<LaserJock> thierry_: i think you need to find the debootstrap .deb for dapper at packages.ubuntu.com and install that first
<pietrus> thierry_: just create a pbuilder for breezy and then change pbulderc and pbuilder apt.source to point to dapper and run the updaet command that is in the bottom f the wiki page
<pietrus> i have just done this
<pietrus> gotta go to bed now
<thierry_> LaserJock : well pbuilder isn't suppose to be made inside the chroot after creating it
<bmonty_laptop> thierry_: pbuilder makes a chroot
<bmonty_laptop> that is what "pbuilder create" does
<thierry_> ho
<tseng> bmonty_laptop: what was your goal with using ldap and krb "together"
<tseng> i only use one or the other
<bmonty_laptop> tseng: single sign on with openafs
<tseng> oh.. afs
<bmonty_laptop> ldap has user information, krb has passwords and a logon gets you a ticket
<tseng> yes i use krb5 for auth on all my systems
<tseng> ldap for the corporate user system for one app
<tseng> never both for one auth
<bmonty_laptop> tseng: I got ldap and kerberos working...turns out there was a problem with reverse lookups on my DNS
<tseng> hm oh
<tseng> good :)
<bmonty_laptop> now I'm working on openafs....its confusing
<bmonty_laptop> my goal is to be able to have a single sign on with my home directory in afs so it is the same on all my machines
<bmonty_laptop> and when I travel with my laptop I don't need network access to get to my files
<tseng> that would be awesome
<bmonty_laptop> tseng: it is taking a little longer to implement than I woud like :)
<bmonty_laptop> anyone know how to get an X program in a pbuilder chroot to be able to access the X display?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: why do you want to do that?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: to test an X app from inside the dapper pbuilder :)
<LaserJock> why not a dapper chroot?
<bmonty_laptop> thats what the pbuilder is
<LaserJock> well, but isn't it kinda different. It is a chroot that is recreated everytime you call pbuilder?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: yeah it makes a new chroot everytime you start it
<LaserJock> but if you just have a regular chroot you can do a lot more testing, etc
<bmonty_laptop> where are the instructions to make a regular chroot?
<LaserJock> I guess I would just make the .debs and install them in a chroot
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<bmonty_laptop> i'll check that out thanks
<LaserJock> I made a dapper chroot that has my /home bind mounted (its in the wiki) so I can have access to my home directory within the chroot
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: do you have to do the same like pbuilder, make a breezy chroot and then change it to dapper?
<LaserJock> umm, I think if you install the dapper debootstrap you can go straight to dapper, otherwise you need to do breezy and dist-upgrade
<bmonty_laptop> ahh
<LaserJock> I created a dapper chroot and pbuilder today without having to update
<Riddell> revu added to dput.cf default.  I'm a genius
<bmonty_laptop> oops :)
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock_: did you have to do anything special to run an X app in the debootstrap?
<LaserJock_> no, I just logged in dchroot -d and ran whatever. today I ran the new emacs and it work seemlessly
<Lathiat> wouldnt the X sockets need to be passed in ?
<LaserJock_> heck if I know, I just fired up emacs and it came up
<bmonty_laptop> Lathiat: I think that is the problem, it needs the .Xauthority cookie, right?
<LaserJock> well, I have my home mounted in the chroot and I start it with chroot -d so I think that is all you need, right?
<LaserJock> that would give you .Xauthority, I think ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: yeah, I initially didn't want my home in the chroot....I don't think I have a choice :)
<LaserJock> could you just copy your .Xauthority over to your chroot?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: nah, I took the easy way and just mounted my home into the chroot
<bmonty_laptop> I wanted to test the fix I made...not mess with chroots :)
<LaserJock> yeah, but chroots are better than dual booting or something like that
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: definately
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: BTW, I don't know if I told you already, or if you care, but I made a MOTUScience team the other day
<bmonty_laptop> if there is a build depend on a perl lib, do you have to add that to the install depends or does $shlibs find it?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: cool, not sure if I would be much help there
<LaserJock> I just thought I should throw it out there, no pressure though ;-)
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ghemical/+bug/3543 <---should this be reassigned to the MOTUScience team?
<minghua> Does anyone in MOTUScience use ghemical?
<LaserJock> Kyral: I'm not sure if we want to reassign just yet. I am working with the ghemical developers on that bug though
<LaserJock> minghua: I do
<minghua> Maybe we should put up a "bugs the team may be interested in" wiki page instead of assigning?
<minghua> or better, have a team address to subscribe the bug
<LaserJock> azeem, who is sometimes here is the debian maintainer for ghemical. Apparently they are going to release a new version next week that might fix that bug
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I'm not sure how to do that yet
<LaserJock> launchpad is quite mysterious to me still
<Lathiat> i heard from bradb they are going to implement 'QA contacts'
<Lathiat> that you can assign to packages
<Lathiat> so we can use that to track things like OTU
<Lathiat> and then actually assign bugs to people
<Lathiat> instead of MOTU
<minghua> I am starting to get a feel that universe should be somehow labeled as one "QAed part" and one "Nobody really knows part" :-)
<minghua> Lathiat: is that going to be reflected in the package description, or is it just a launchpad thing?
<LaserJock> well, it looks like we might be able to use "subscribe someone else" and but motuscience in.
<LaserJock> s/but/put/
<Lathiat> unfortunately subscriptiond oesnt do much until somethign happens to the bug
<Lathiat> and theres no subscription list
<Lathiat> they need to send someone mail when you subscribe someone else to something
<LaserJock> Lathiat: that's true
<Lathiat> and really a +subscribedbugs woudlnt go astray either
<Kyral> LJ did you hear from the devs yet?
<LaserJock> for FlowDesigner?
<Kyral> ja
<LaserJock> no, I just emailed their mailing list. I might try the devs directly if I don't hear anything soon. I don't know if it matters much. I think if we get a package built we can tell them after the fact ;-)
<Kyral> Okay
<Kyral> Oh hwo the hell do I get "MOTUScience" to be a link in my Wiki
<LaserJock> do you have "[[FullSearch()] ] " in the code?
<Kyral> ..no
<LaserJock> That puts links to any wiki page with your name on it
<Kyral> Okaaay
<Kyral> so just put that in there?
<LaserJock> ----
<LaserJock> Related pages:
<LaserJock> [[FullSearch()] ] 
<LaserJock>  ^^ that is what I have
<Kyral> Yah but how do I get "MOTUScience" to be a link to the MotuScience page without that (So its under my Teams)
<LaserJock> ohhh, I see what you mean now. use ["MOTUScience"] 
<LaserJock> it doesn't recognize it as a wiki page
<Kyral> Hey LJ, remind me to talk to Corey about helping with the Installation Guide
<LaserJock> Kyral: why do I have to be your daytimer? ;-)
<minghua> Kyral: go install a calendar program :-)
<Kyral> lol sorry
<Kyral> I'm just very absent minded sometimes
<LaserJock> Kyral: I am too, that is why it isn't good to ask me to help you remeber something ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> night LaserJock
<bmonty_laptop> night MOTUs
<Kyral> Okay I have just hit lazy central
<Kyral> I made an alias to update all 4 of my PBuilders at once
<LaserJock> lol
<Kyral> And I can easily adapt it to clean all 4 at once
<Kyral> How do I get on the DocTeam now...
* rob^ looks in
<LaserJock> Kyral: talk to rob^
<LaserJock> Kyral: but what about FlowDesigner? :)
<Kyral> I was actually about to hit it with dh_make ;P
<Kyral> I was just saying I could help with the Install Guide ;P
<LaserJock> yeah, actually I might be working on a packaging guide for the doc team. You might be interested in some of that too
<Kyral> Yah I would :D
<Kyral> LJ I have a feeling that we will both wind up with our MOTU Licenses around the same time :D
<rob^> that would be great
* rob^ is intrested in the outcome of the packaging guide
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh, I don't know. I actually have never made a package from scratch before, just updated existing ones.
<rob^> what exists currently as a packaging guide?
<Kyral> The Debian New Maintainers Guide
<rob^> ah, yeah I've read that one
<LaserJock> well, we have PbuilderHowto, PackagingTips, MOTUWannabeTips and maybe one or two others
<LaserJock> but I will be working on getting those put in better shape
<Kyral> I have to append the PBuilderHOWTO on how to make multiple ones
<Kyral> Leave it to me ;D
<LaserJock> Kyral: Yeah, I was going to ask you to do that. I think it is important for MOTUs to be able to do
<Kyral> FlowDesigner hit with DH
<Kyral> Make
<Kyral> I'm lucky this time, it uses a proper AutoConf, so DH_Make did most of the work :D
<LaserJock> yeah, that is nice
<Kyral> I also want to somehow bring my "Terminal for Beginners" Guide from the Forums into the Wiki
<Kyral> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=73885
<rob^> Kyral, there is something like that being worked on in the wiki that you could maybe work on
<rob^> bring all the best bits over etc..
<Kyral> Who is working on it
<rob^> I forget the name though, something like "command line" something
<Kyral> *thinks he should start hanging out in the docteam channel*
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, I started that today too :)
<rob^> this is it I think:
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto
<rob^> heh
<Kyral> I'll send the maintainer a msg through the wiki
<rob^> np
<Kyral> Wait can I?
<rob^> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto?action=info for a list of people who are working on it
<rob^> they might have an email address, either that or just post it to the docteam mailing list
<Kyral> yah, but tomorrow
<Kyral> its gettin' late ;P
<rob^> heh
<Kyral> whats the DocTeam channel?
<rob^> #ubuntu-doc
<Kyral> With that I am sleeping
<Kyral> cya Ubunteros!
<rob^> bye
<LaserJock> cya Kyral
<Kyral> (Why the hell did Mark change it from Ubuntite to Ubuntero?)
<rob^> I dunno, they both sound odd
<crimsun> cool, Mark uses Kubuntu
<Kyral> LJ regardless if they(FlowDevelop) respond I'll have a debpack ready tomorrow
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, no rush, but it would be nice for us to put out something
<Kyral> Like I said its an easy package b/c it uses AutoConf
<zakame> afternoon all!
<LaserJock> evening
<zakame> what do you think of this: split lighttpd source as lighttpd{,ssl} for the server and lighttpd-common for config and modules, or build just a single lighttpd package plus liblighttpd-mod-* for individual modules?
<zakame> wb bhuvan
<bhuvan> ?
<crimsun> zakame: the former is preferable imo
<zakame> crimsun: I tend to agree, I think this will also allow a couple of lighttpd servers running at the same host, assuming there's no conflict
<pef> hello
<zakame> hi pef
<Mez> anyone here (MOTU)
<pef> yes
<zakame> what's up?
<Mez> anyone who's actually a MOT U?
<Mez> (if you are - sorry)
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> what's up?
<Mez> crimsun - private
<zakame> wb zyga
<zyga> zakame: morning :-)
<zakame> hmm I notice a some stuff in UniverseCandidates are already in Universe, among other cruft...
<LaserJock> really, a lot of stuff?
<LaserJock> or just a few
<zakame> sorry, a few actually :)
<zakame> on others there are debian pkgs already available
<LaserJock> np, I woudn''t be suprised if it was a lot
<zakame> hmm, is it just me, or is mysql.sf.net down?
<crimsun> the running joke is "when is foo.sf.net _not_ down?" ;-)
<zakame> buwahahaha
<pef> zakame: down for me too
<zakame> pef: hmm, I was browsing some of the UC sites, picking which one to (hopefully) work on :)
<minghua> the MOTU meeting time hasn't been decided yet?
* minghua hopes it won't be early morning
<minghua> it's good when you are only one timezone away from Montreal though :-)
<zakame> minghua: hehe
<Mez> minghua, I doubt it will \sh is going to have a hell of a hangover in the morning
<Mez> he either drank a lot or cant hold his drink
<zakame> haha
<minghua> Mez: then I can sleep well :-)
<schweeb> Mez: isn't he german? I'm guessing option 2
<Mez> y option 2 ?
<schweeb> germans are born to drink beer
<schweeb> it's their sole purpose in life
<Mez> so you reckon he cant hold his drink ?
<schweeb> err
<schweeb> option 1
<schweeb> I'm too tired.
<schweeb> running on like 4 hrs sleep in the last 48 hrs
<Mez> well by the looks of it
<Mez> he had a lot less than me
<Mez> (I had 3 beers - 7 vodka cokes and a shooter of creme de menth and bailets
<Mez> but then I dont know what he drinak all night
<schweeb> so you had a fairly normal night is what you're saying :p
<Mez> *shrugs*
<Mez> anyways night
<schweeb> night
<crimsun> night
<mloskot> Is there any #ubuntu-dev channel or something for developers (launchpad, bugs, etc.)?
<minghua> mloskot: #ubuntu-devel?
<mloskot> thanks, I'm just there ;-)
<minghua> just saw you :-)  sorry
<Tonio_> mornin'
<hunger> How good is cdbs yet? Should I use that for my debs or stick with dh_make multi-binary?
<siretart> hunger: try both and see what suits you better
<siretart> I think it really depends on the package
<\sh> ok going downstairs
<siretart> same to me
<hunger> siretart: So I guess I'll stick with multibinary. cdbs is rather arcane:-)
<ajmitch> morning
<tseng> hi
<Kyral> Morning
<Kyral> \sh when is this meeting that the topic speaks of?
<zakame> evening
<zakame> hi sladen
<zakame> and slomo too :D
<zakame> wb dholbach :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> hellas :)
<dholbach> hi zakame
<siretart> lets make the motu meeting at 15:40 montreal time
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, siretart
<siretart> we have 'universe motu' bof there
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<zakame> siretart: ooh!
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Kyral> Here on IRC?
<zakame> siretart: is the motu-meeting today?
<Kyral> and siretart "Montreal Time" is correctly referred to as EST or GMT -5
<sladen> hi zakame
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
<siretart> I was rather thinking about a motu bof, we will have a 'real' motu meeting on irc were we report what we talked about
<jsgotangco> were there enough motus in ubz?
<jsgotangco> i guess
<sladen> k
<siretart> since there are quite some motus here at ubz, but we didn't hat the chance yet to talk about motu stuff, I think
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<zakame> hmmm
<hub_> gah
<hub_> this network is awful
<siretart> yeah
<hub_> i'm here for example
* siretart is still on telus
* ajmitch is still on the telus essid
<\sh> ok...
* ajmitch waves to \sh
<\sh> we have a scheduled time for our meeting
<siretart> I count at least 8 motus here at ubz
<sladen> \sh: have you scheduled it on LP?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
<\sh> sladen: claire did
<siretart> sladen: look on todays schedule, it is called 'universe motus'
<ajmitch> sladen: it's on the day's schedule
<siretart> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/todays-schedule.html
<\sh> 15:40 EST is what in utc?
<siretart> I think -5h
<Kyral> Sh I just said that
<Kyral> EST == UTC/GMT -5 ;P
<\sh> Kyral: sry...yeah
<\sh> means...20:40
<Kyral> yup
<Kyral> I think timezones should be abolished ;P
<siretart> ack!
<ajmitch> sure, everything should be NZST
<siretart> hrhr
<Kyral> nah, GMT ;P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft | UBZ MOTU Meeting 2005-11-05 - Time: 20:40
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<Kyral> You should say GMT ;P
<ajmitch> s/GMT/UTC/
<siretart> why do we have to topic locked?
<Kyral> whats the difference between GMT and UTC anyway?
<siretart> daylight saving perhaps?
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> siretart: beg chanserv for op
<Kyral> DST is evil
<siretart> \sh: my question was rather if there has been abuse
<\sh> siretart: -ENOCLUE
<Kyral> Its even more confusing because there is a portion of the EST timezone that doesn't use it
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft | UBZ MOTU Meeting 2005-11-05 - Time: 20:40  UTC
<Kyral> so during that time you have 5 timezones in the contenental US
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<siretart> \sh: please /mode -t #ubuntu-motu
<siretart> too late
<Kyral> I assume the meeting is here? (In #ubuntu-motu)?
<tseng> siretart: it doesnt matter, there is no access
<siretart> ?
<siretart> well, anyway, I don't care that much..
<\sh> ajmitch: did u write the last motu meeting minutes ?
<Mez> just to let you know I wont be attending the MOTU meeting later
<\sh> why not?
<\sh> btw some infos here
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<\sh> and a short overview of the Dapper Release Process (which is discussed, but not approved right now..so only informational status)
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess
<Mez> \sh: mainly because I've had a shit night, and dont feel up to anything, and mainly because apparently the MOTU team see what I do as "complete bollocks"
<dholbach> Mez: "complete bollocks"?
<ogra_> what makes you think this ??
<zakame> Mez: eh?!?
<Mez> backports?
<ogra_> Mez, as long as it wasnt you who created this evil stuff : http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/dists/breezy-extras-staging/restricted/binary-i386/w32codecs_20050412+breezy0.0.1_all.deb
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ogra_> thats the suck, who creted that ?
<ogra_> *created
<dholbach> Mez: talking about the whole group as one and staying away from the meeting won't change anything... atm i don't even know what the problem is
<Mez> ogra_, no... but apparently it's concensus between the MOTUs that the old and new backports are "complete bollocks"
<zakame> dholbach: can non-MOTUs attend the meeting?
<dholbach> sure
* jsgotangco plays LedZep Communication Breakdown
<ogra_> Mez, thats absolutely not true
<sistpoty> meeting... did I miss s.th.?
<Mez> ogra: I believe that jdong made it from ... marillat
<siretart> Mez: thats not right. I really appreciate the existance of official backports
<\sh> Mez: who said that? I can't remember to say something like this last night
<zakame> jsgotangco: haha
<siretart> Mez: it's rather that I'm very concerned about users complaining about upgrade problems
<ogra_> Mez, its a script that rm -rf's directorys in the postrm ....
<Mez> \sh: well then maybe you had a bit too much to drink
<Mez> ogra_ lmao
<Mez> yeah, the package sucks
<siretart> Mez: actually, there is quite a need for backports. but thats is more challenging than regular package and thus must be made right!
<Mez> think it was generated from marrilat
<ogra_> and wgets a zipfile in the postinst.... if the url is unreachable, your packaging system is broken....
<\sh> Mez: no...I only asked u if somebody care about testing the stuff and really care about the responsibilty u have
<Mez> siretart: I know
<dholbach> Mez: i used the new backports already, so please come off it
<dholbach> Mez: if you're annoyed or disappointed about something, try to identify it accurately and talk about it please
<zakame> hmm, question: should REVU uploads build on dapper or still breezy?
<siretart> but what really pisses me off is leaving the procedures we (as in ubuntu in general) agreed on without even announcing it
<ogra_> Mez, i totally count on you and backports for edubuntu for example, to fill all the gaps i couldnt fill in breezy
<Mez> siretart ... ?
<siretart> zakame: dapper, but please see ant_1.6.2-2_all.deb
<siretart> zakame: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/revu
<dholbach> i have no idea, what the problem is
<siretart> sorry
<zakame> siretart: ant?
<siretart> zakame: forget ant, wrong pastebuffer
<zakame> siretart: ok :)
<Mez> but, I wont be attending anyways
<siretart> Mez: I'm not sure, but I really think to remember that we agreed that the mirrormax backports are being shut down. we was that w32codecs package for breezy created then?
<siretart> Mez: that can't be about 'staging'
<Mez> siretart: the backports mirror being shut down
<Mez> and mirrormax is nothing to do with me
<Mez> I still wont be attending anyways
<siretart> Mez: I didn't say anything about you in person
<Mez> I just had a really rough night, and need some time alone
<zakame> Mez: aww
<zakame> wb slomo
<siretart> Mez: I was only talking about that unofficial backports
<Mez> siretart: you didnt say anything
<ogra_> siretart, i think they wanted to keep extras there... as long as they dont put stuff in the wrong place (like w32codecs into restricted for example) thats fine
<slomo> hi zakame :)
<Mez> the other day, in the backports BoF, you came up with some good points siretart, which I've taken into consideration
<Mez> but, anyways, as I said
<siretart> ogra_: perhaps they should colaborate with plf
<Mez> I wont be attending
<siretart> your choice
<Mez> nothing against the MOTU... I'm just going through a rough patch at the moment, and need some time to get my head together
<jsgotangco> surely its not because of ubz
<dholbach> Mez: it might help, if the problem was more accurately described... i have no idea, what the discussion is about
<Mez> dholbach: it's not that much of a deal at the moment
<Mez> it was more of a "side thought"
<Mez> as I said - I'm going through a rough spot...
<Mez> and i just need to relax
<dholbach> then take your time
<dholbach> if you have something helpful to say about "complete bollocks", we could talk about it as a group
<zakame> wb bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi zakame
<Mez> dholbach: I'm sorry bout mentioning it - I was just a lil pissed off about something someone said last nigth
* Kyral does something stupid to try and lighten the mood
<zakame> Kyral: buwahaha :)
<zakame> what's all this fuss about `Leonor' that I keep hearing in other channels?
<Kyral> who?
<zakame> wb Tonio_
<Tonio_> zakame: hi
<zakame> btw, is there a written agenda for the motu-meeting?
<jsgotangco> yes go nuts and get drunk after wards
<sistpoty> ping slomo
<zakame> jsgotangco: buwahaha
<sistpoty> zakame: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting ... but unfortunately this is outdated :(
<zakame> sistpoty: very much indeed :(
<slomo> sistpoty: pong
<sistpoty> slomo: I'll be doing the wiki for weird languages now
<sistpoty> slomo: what name should we use?
<sistpoty> slomo: MOTUUncommonProgrammingLanguages?
<slomo> sistpoty: sounds fine :)
<mloskot> hi all!
<sistpoty> slomo: ok
<sistpoty> hi mloskot
<mloskot> highvoltage, i'm looking for Corey Burger here :-) ?
<mloskot> sorry, i don't know his nick ;-(
<\sh> mloskot: Burgundavia
<mloskot> thx
<mloskot> seems his not here now
<\sh> not in this channel...try devel or query him
<Kyral> Quick question
<Kyral> hes in #ubuntu-doc
<mloskot> hehe, he emailed me to get to #ubuntu-motu
<Kyral> anyway, what are we gonna do with XChat 2.6.0?
<mloskot> Kyral: np, I'm sending him a message.
<highvoltage> mloskot: doesn't seem like he's here, currently
<mloskot> highvoltage: yes, i see, I'm waiting for him :-)
<pef> how can I know names of packages automatically mass synced from Debian ?
<ajmitch> ubuntu-changes-auto list
<mloskot>  Hi Burgundavia!
<siretart> hey sistpoty!
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<slomo> sistpoty: will you give me the urls when you're done? ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: sure
<\sh> oh wow...it seems my life is somewhat doomed
<siretart> FYI, I introduced a wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions page
<bmonty_laptop> how so?
<\sh> apt-get remove old-life ; apt-get install new-life
<slomo> siretart: wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions was there before ;)
* siretart looks
<siretart> okay, since they all seem to be done, I'd suggest remove wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions completly
<siretart> any objections?
<Mez> \sh: shouldnt it be apt-get remove --purge old-life ?
<Mez> or you'll just have bits of it hanging around
<\sh> u should never think, when you're thousands of miles away from home, that your life won't reach u
<\sh> Mez: which is the truth..
<Burgundavia> salut mloskot
<mloskot> aloha
<Burgundavia> \sh, can do apt-get install new girlfriend as well?
<Kyral> \sh: Wow.....that was like......wise and stuff
<Mez> \sh: I know what you mean - hence why i had a rough night
<mloskot> Burgundavia: does it work that way on your box? :-)
<\sh> Burgundavia: well...if apt-get install more-money-for-new-girlfriend works
<Burgundavia> mloskot, nope
<Burgundavia> \sh, might be troublesome
<mloskot> Burgundavia: So, who is involved in the UbuntuGIS else?
<Burgundavia> mloskot, ogra_
<\sh> just received a mail and a phonecall (via my world-wide-life-vanity-number)
<mloskot> Burgundavia: but does he have any GIS background?
<\sh> this message is telling me, that I inherit money
<mloskot> zyga: nice to see you in here ;-)
<Burgundavia> mloskot, doesn
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<Burgundavia> mine is play only
<zyga> mloskot: hi :)
<mloskot> Burgundavia: ok, so he is MOTU guru in UbuntuGIS,
<mloskot> zyga: are you this zyga?
<Burgundavia> yes
<zyga> mloskot: the very same
<mloskot> Burgundavia: So, where would you start?
* zyga is going to grab some food :)
<mloskot> zyga: i'm glad
<zyga> I'll be back in 1/2h
<Burgundavia> mloskot, we need to sort that giant list for usefulness
<mloskot> Burgundavia: in what categories?
<Burgundavia> whatever
<mloskot> Burgundavia: useful/not useful or something more meaningful? OK, there may be many categorization rules.
<Burgundavia> basically, if we need to turn Ubuntu into a first class GIS platform, what do we need?
<\sh> looks like that I have to pay the debts of my grandma
<mloskot> Burgundavia: I think we have 2 or 3 objectives:
<mloskot> Burgundavia: 1) to include most famous and widely used GIS software: GRASS, MapServer, etc.
* tritium comforts \sh 
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: sorry for your loss
<Burgundavia> that work is largely done by DebianGIS
<mloskot> Burgundavia: 2) to provide _complete_ Web Mapping environment: MapServer, GeoTools, java stuff related to webmapping and webservices, etc.
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: no...
<pef> ajmitch: not for already synced packages, but them not yet synced ? for example this afternoon I've uploaded to revu a synced version of kdissert from Debian, and with recent mass autosync this sync has be done, so my work is useless
<mloskot> Burgundavia: 3) to provide as complete as possible (note, this subject it less developed as web mapping) environment for Desktop GIS: here GRASS is the main part, but not only, there is QGIS moving on and there are many many small tools which are worth to include to UbuntuGIS.
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: grandmother died a couple of months ago...this is not the problem...the problem is more, that you're able to inherit depts...if u can say no to it, u r lucky...but if you are 1000 miles away and u don't know anything about it...u r f'uped
<mloskot> Burgundavia: So, certainly, we are not able to do all those 3 subjects in the same time, then we should define priorities: i.s.
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: ah, that sucks.  must be a German thing.
<mloskot> Burgundavia: Oh, there could be also 4) - low level development packages for GIS
<mloskot> Burgundavia: Do you like it or...?
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> can you change the top of the UbuntuGIS page to reflect that?
<Burgundavia> then we can look at each package within those goals and figure out what needs to be done
<mloskot> Burgundavia: OK, as a first step I will sort the list according to those 3-4 criterions.
<Burgundavia> mloskot, Thanks!
<mloskot> Burgundavia: Yes, then we will be able to prioritize pacakges incside those groups.
<Burgundavia> fell free to add anything you find
<mloskot> Burgundavia: ok, I will try to consult with my friend - web mapping guru to.
<mloskot> Burgundavia: So, I thikn that's enough at the moment. I will try to fix this list tonight.
<mloskot> OK?
<Burgundavia> anytime is great
<Burgundavia> it has languished long enough
<Burgundavia> ogra_, we have another UbuntuGIS person!
<mloskot> Hi ogra
<Kyral> hey oliver
<ogra_> Burgundavia, saw it
<ogra_> :)
* tseng wonders why acpi says my cpu is 77C and bios says 48
<zyga> tseng: dont trust either, powerdown, remove the cooler and check
<tseng> yeah i am not in the mood to remove the cooler
<tseng> but the fins are completely cool
<zyga> tseng: what cpu are you using?
<tseng> p4 2.0
<zyga> tseng: I'd vote for 77
<zyga> p4 are hot
<Mithrandir> I'd vote for MAXINT+77
* Lathiat grins
<Mithrandir> it's probably overflowed.
<Lathiat> tseng: one of them may have the sensors confused
<tseng> maybe i can test the temparature of the bare cpu by cauterizing this cut on my finger
<zyga> tseng: you could touch the other side of the mobo
<zyga> tseng: if it's around 77 you'll know for sure
<mloskot> see you later
<sistpoty> slomo: first draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUUncommonProgrammingLanguages
<sistpoty> slomo: I've just finished haskell subpage and will be moving on to scheme now
<slomo> sistpoty: what about sml? :)
<sistpoty> slomo: never heard of it ;)
<sistpoty> s.th. like caml?
<sistpoty> slomo: this is just a draft yet... let's try to collect as much as possible ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: almost the same as caml afaik... sml = standard ml... and caml is what?
<sistpoty> slomo: don't know exatly what ca stands for *g*... but mld0nkey is written in it... (ocaml to be precise, which features oop)
<slomo> sistpoty: ca = university of california or something similar? ;)
<sistpoty> maybe even that ;)
<Mez> certificication authority ?
<sistpoty> Mez: i doubt it is, since this is the name of programming language... but ocaml is that weird that even this might be possible *g*
<siretart> sistpoty: great job for the UncommonLanguages wiki pages!
<sistpoty> siretart: thx... actually there is still much to do
<siretart> absolutly
<sistpoty> (i only know a few bits bout haskell)
<siretart> but it helps fresh blood to know whats going on and being able to start helping!
<sistpoty> it sure does... and apart from that i'd like to keep links to packaging related stuff on it
<sistpoty> which is really uneasy to find, if you don't know it exists (like the haskell guide, which i didn't know of for a very long time *g*)
<Mez> sistpoty, :P
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: nice wiki pages!
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: thx
<ivoks> hi
<bmonty_laptop> hey ivoks
<ivoks> i found out today that gdm is useless with ldap users
<ivoks> i have to use kdm :/
<bmonty_laptop> it doesn't use nsswitch?
<ivoks> it does
<ivoks> it contacts ldap
<ivoks> gets everything
<ivoks> and then freezes
<ivoks> it's a known bug :(
<bmonty_laptop> hmm, good to know since I am trying to do that
<ivoks> but guys at gnome are sure that it isn't gdm's fault
<bmonty_laptop> once I get ldap working correctly that is :)
<tseng> it works fine with pam_krb5 :)
<ivoks> :)
<bmonty_laptop> tseng: good
<ivoks> tseng: how hard it is to setup kerberos env?
<bmonty_laptop> I though that with pam the apps shouldn't care
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: me too, but you see all work except gdm :)
<tseng> ivoks: depends
<tseng> ivoks: the server is not that fun, and kind of weird
<tseng> the client is easy
<tseng> if you already have a windows domain controler
<ivoks> clients are allways easy :)
<ivoks> i don't
<tseng> you basically just throw a few lines in pam.d and krb5.conf
<tseng> and you are set
<tseng> setting up your own domain is weirder
<ivoks> but, i'll leave it on ldaps for now...
<tseng> there are ok howtos
<tseng> its not scary
<ivoks> i'll have to try it once...
<ivoks> i did install from scratch today on 20 machines
<tseng> its not any weirder than ldap :)
<ivoks> i did 40 yesterday
<ivoks> with linux, stuff like this are painless :)
<ivoks> install with netboot and kickstart
<ivoks> login, download script, run it and wait... :)
<tseng> i cant find any real guides on ubuntu kickstart anywhere
<ivoks> huh?
<ivoks> tseng: i can help you
<ivoks> it's too easy to write a howto for it :)
<tseng> whiprush gave me some scripts from redhat as an example
<ivoks> tseng: well, you have tool for that :)
* sistpoty is going to the movies right now
<sistpoty> cya
<ivoks> sistpoty: enjoy
<sistpoty> thx
<tseng> ivoks: ok, i will remember to ask you about it next week
<tseng> i have 7 more servers to do, i already did 5
<ivoks> tseng: install system-config-kickstart
<tseng> hm it is broken in dapper :)
<ivoks> ah, dapper :)
<tseng> breezy at work
<Gloubiboulga> hello universe
<bmonty_laptop> hi Gloubiboulga
<hub_> casimir ?!!!
<Gloubiboulga> not exactly
<hub_> ah
<Gloubiboulga> just his favorite food
<hub_> yeah I know
<Gloubiboulga> I'm working on some packages
<Gloubiboulga> what should I do to include them in universe repositories ?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU knows it all :)
<Gloubiboulga> yep dholbach, I've seen this pages...
<dholbach> ok
<Gloubiboulga> but I have to submit some packages before
<Gloubiboulga> i sent you an e-mail last week about this dholbach
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: about what specifically?
<Gloubiboulga> How to contribute
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: before what? which packages?
* dholbach is a bit confused
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Gloubiboulga> I explain :
<Gloubiboulga> I'd like to contribute to motu, but I won't get upload rights if nobody knows how I work
<dholbach> you upload something to REVU
<dholbach> and somebody will review it
<Gloubiboulga> so I guess admin can test the package I've made
<dholbach> you only need a gpg key, which you can create youtself
<dholbach> everybody can test it
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: what packages do you work on?
<schweeb> sup dholbach
<Gloubiboulga> mftrace, denemo
<dholbach> schweeb: how are you?
<Gloubiboulga> lilypond (but it's harder)
<schweeb> dholbach: busy trying to pay off school loans :( stupid websites are all broken
<dholbach> :/
<dholbach> i see
<hub_> Gloubiboulga: if the package is already in debian, just ask to have it synced.
<schweeb> but I got the whole membership thing all cleared up!  it actually says I'm a member in launchpad now :)
<Gloubiboulga> ok hub_
<\sh> oh wow...
<hub_> hey \sh
<schweeb> \sh: oh wow to what?
<\sh> just found out how much money I have to pay
<schweeb> ah, heh
<schweeb> I've spend no less than $1000 today :P
<schweeb> *spent
<schweeb> and I'm about to go look at some furniture
<\sh> the debts of my grandmother are around 10k eur....so a monthly payment of 200 eur will break my life
<\sh> hey hub
<schweeb> ick
<\sh> hub: thx again for your invitation yesterday :)
<schweeb> what's the exchange rate... is it about 1 eur ~= 1.6 USD?
<\sh> something like this
<hub> \sh: you're welcome
<hub> schweeb: no. that is the rate for CAN$
<\sh> or I have to try to do more nightshifts but this won't happen because the company will decrease all extra payments
<hub> EUR is 1.18USD
<schweeb> 1 CAD ~= .75 USD....  it's changed some, but that was the old rule of thumb...
<hub> EUR is 1.4 CAD
<hub> it was 1.6 earlier
<hub> 1 CAD = .84 USD today
<schweeb> maybe it's pounds I'm thinking of then
<hub> don't think
<hub> use a converter
<hub> :-)
<schweeb> trying to find one
<hub> http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=CAD&to=USD&submit=Convert
<\sh> well...
<hub> that is the one i use
<schweeb> hub: I would have been there in about 10 more seconds
<schweeb> ah, apparently the Euro is less than the USD right now
<schweeb> hub: no, I was about right, the 1 GBP = 1.74 USD
<hub> schweeb: no. the EUR is more that the USD
<hub> 1 EUR is 1.18 USD
<hub> it has been for quite some time
<LaserJock> man, this conversation would be a lot shorter if everything was in USD, but then I'm American so that would make sense to me ;-)
<schweeb> LaserJock: indeed
<schweeb> I just put that conversion in different
<schweeb> er the opposite direction
<schweeb> my brain is on vacation for the month
<schweeb> which is bad, because it's early in the month yet
<LaserJock> yeah, I hate unit conversion, and I'm a chemist so I should be good at it :(
<schweeb> heh, one of my buddies is a chemist too, works for Dow
<bmonty_laptop> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: looks like you've been doing some Malone work
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: yeah, only two packages though
<LaserJock> well, but you had 1/3 of the latest ubuntu-bugs digest I got ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> heh....malone likes to generate a lot of emails :)
<LaserJock> well, today I attempt to make my first package from scratch
<bmonty_laptop> that sounds fun
<bmonty_laptop> what are you packaging?
<LaserJock> I feel bad because I am the MOTUScience "leader" and apparently in charge of a Packaging Guide for the doc team and I have never made a package from scratch before :(
<LaserJock> It's called plotdrop
<LaserJock> http://icculus.org/~jcspray/plotdrop/
<bmonty_laptop> nice...icculus always seems to have nice useful apps
<LaserJock> well, it's small, which is nice, and I think it won't give me too much trouble
<tritium> LaserJock, there's already an ubuntu .deb on that page.  Should be trivial to modify for breezy
<bmonty_laptop> why not dapper?
<tritium> that's what I meant
<LaserJock> yeah, but it was made using checkinstall
<LaserJock> I am going to try it from scratch
<tritium> ah, that would be better
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft | UBZ MOTU Meeting 2005-11-05 - Time: 21:40  UTC
<LaserJock> my other excuse is that I haven't used REVU before and I would like to check it out
<\sh> who ever told me it's 20:40 ... it's 21:40 UTC
<\sh> 15:40 EST == 21:40 GMT-6
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<bmonty_laptop> REVU is fun :)
<\sh> ok..and now I need some cigarettes...means cash machine frst
<\sh> laters
<KyralRetsam> Jeez \sh....
<KyralRetsam> change the time  ;P
<KyralRetsam> oh, TWO OF ME!!! Coool....no one kill the ghost
<KyralRetsam> Oh LaserJock, want me to add myself to the people working on the packaging guide?
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: you can if you want, I guess. I need to get it from Unfrgiven before we can do anything
<KyralRetsam> okay
<KyralRetsam> btw Kyral == KyralRetsam
<KyralRetsam> I just logged in from the lab
<LaserJock> I saw that, itl-lab-3.sclab.clarkson.edu
<KyralRetsam> I should have a basic debpack for FlowDevelop today, if I can remember how to make a package binary indep
<LaserJock> cool
<KyralRetsam> I forgot what to change in debian/control
<bmonty_laptop> KyralRetsam: Architecture: any
<KyralRetsam> ty
<bmonty_laptop> sorry that should be Architecture: all
<bmonty_laptop> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
<KyralRetsam> Yah as soon as I get the build deps worked out I should be golden :D
<LaserJock> so is all preferable?
<KyralRetsam> yah for source uploads
<LaserJock> when would you use any? when it had arch dependent stuff?
<KyralRetsam> I dunno
<KyralRetsam> but dh helpers complain a bit
<KyralRetsam> ie, it won't upload the original sourceball
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: I've used it to exclude 64-bit archs
<KyralRetsam> Anyone with 64-bit arches here?
<KyralRetsam> LaserJock, I suggest we create a MOTUScience channel
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: IMO I don't think we are there yet, maybe when people get back from UBZ and we are creating too much noise here
<KyralRetsam> lol
<KyralRetsam> Putting the package in the "Science" section
<slomo> any creates packages for all archs, all creates one package for all archs
<slomo> and you use all when it only contains arch-indep stuff... otherwise any
<KyralRetsam> umkay
<KyralRetsam> okay
<KyralRetsam> so until it breaks on PPC or AMD64, use any :D
<slomo> hm?
<KyralRetsam> as arch ;P
<slomo> doesn't matter if it breaks or not... use all when stuff built on one arch is usable on all archs... i.e. for plain python/mono stuff, documentation, scripts, etc
<slomo> and any for stuff that creates native binaries
<KyralRetsam> ah
<LaserJock> slomo: makes sense to me. Thanks for clearing that up
<KyralRetsam> okay.....what packages provides the GTK devfiles...
<KyralRetsam> and the GNOME stuff
<slomo> libgtk2.0-dev / libgtk-dev
<slomo> and what gnome stuff?
<KyralRetsam> Says it needs "Standard GNOME-2 dependencies"
<slomo> hum
<slomo> very precise =)
<KyralRetsam> no kiddin' ;P
<slomo> does this package use autotools?
<KyralRetsam> yah, THANK GOD
<slomo> look at configure.ac / configure.in for the actual dependencies ;)
<slomo> you'll get the minimal version by that too
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: what do you have for Section in your control file?
<KyralRetsam> science
<hub> network manage in dapper is broken
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: I don't think that is right
<KyralRetsam> Okay, tell me what is right ;P
<slomo> what does this package do?
<LaserJock>  FlowDesigner is a free (GPL/LGPL) data-flow oriented development environment
<KyralRetsam> Is this a multiple binary package?
<KyralRetsam> I'm running finddeps and it looks like it...
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: well you at least need to have universe/science . I think that is what we want after all
<KyralRetsam> k
<KyralRetsam> GTK+ is....
<KyralRetsam> libgtk+?
<slomo> libgtk2.0-dev
<slomo> and put it under section dev
<KyralRetsam> universe/dev?
<slomo> no need to put universe/ there
<slomo> oh wait...
<bmonty_laptop> if the current version number is 0.9.50-2build1 and I upgrade is 0.9.80-0ubuntu1 correct?
<slomo> what exactly is meant with data-flow oriented dev environment?
<slomo> what kind of dev? ;;)
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: yes and be sure you don't touch the tarball
<KyralRetsam> Now which fftw-dev do I use?
<KyralRetsam> fftw-dev or fftw3-dev
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: I had to modify the upstream tarball to get rid of some CVS files
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: leave them
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: ok, well the files in REVU have the CVS files in them
<bmonty_laptop> I was removing them to fix that lintian warning
<LaserJock> slomo: I can't explain it very well. http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1123
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: hmm... hmmm... talk to the debian maintainer... it will make syncs unnecessary hard if we or he changes the tarball ;)
<KyralRetsam> I'm gonna take "Standard GNOME2 Deps" to mean libgnome2-dev
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: ok
<slomo> KyralRetsam: look at configure.{ac,in} and try to build it in pbuilder... when it builds fine there you have all deps ;)
<KyralRetsam> yah I will
<KyralRetsam> its what I intend to do
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: or you could take care of the package for the remaining 0.9.80-line and change the tarball as much as you want ;)
<slomo> KyralRetsam, LaserJock: section dev seems ok
<slomo> and for fftw... try which one is needed
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: try http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4115
<KyralRetsam> I tried that ;P
<LaserJock> slomo: yes, I just overlooked the Development section. That is where I wanted it. Thanks
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: the issue is if the debian maintainers upgrade and change the original source tarball will create diff problems, right?
<bmonty_laptop> does it make more sense to give the upgraded package to the debian maintainers and then sync it in?
* azeem doesn't think it makes sense to repackage an upstream tarball to remove CVS directories, if it has been already uploaded
<LaserJock> hi azeem!
<KyralRetsam> Now for the changelog entry
<KyralRetsam> what command do I want?
<KyralRetsam> dch -v?
<azeem> LaserJock: hi
<bmonty_laptop> azeem: only uploaded to REVU
<bmonty_laptop> package is gphpedit
<\sh> http;//wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting
<\sh> please read the agenda points and add more if you want
<KyralRetsam> \sh
<KyralRetsam> s/;/:
<\sh> KyralRetsam: ?
<KyralRetsam> the link
<KyralRetsam> you put a ; where a : should be ;P
<\sh> KyralRetsam: argl
<KyralRetsam> I'm in a coding mood so I pick up on syntax errors ;P
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner is building in my Dapper PBuilder as we speak
<KyralRetsam> I'll check it against Breezy, Sid, and Sarge
<\sh> KyralRetsam: good to hear...u will have a lot of coding to do for dapper...in a short timeframe :)
* KyralRetsam snaps to attention
<KyralRetsam> SIR YES SIR! *hehe*
<KyralRetsam> LaserJock, have you heard fomr the developers yet?
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: nope
<blueyed> I'd like to add the "recent" module to iptables. Is it available through apt/dpkg?
<KyralRetsam> I think you have to recompile the kernel
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: I am going to email the main author directly instead of the mailing list
<KyralRetsam> IPTables is integrated into the kernel right?
<KyralRetsam> LaserJock, if these build you can attach the debpacks directly ;P
<LaserJock> ? In the email?
<KyralRetsam> Yah
<LaserJock> yeah, ok. I will wait for you to do that
<KyralRetsam> Keep in mind if these work, I still have to clean up debian/
<KyralRetsam> I didn't run Lintian against it
<KyralRetsam> this run is to just make sure I got build-deps and whatnot right
<KyralRetsam> so \sh this meeting is at 4:40 PM EST?
<\sh> Kyral, 15:40 montreal time...which is 21:40 UTC
<\sh> it's 6 hours
<farruinn> oh right, now that we're on "daylight savings"
<\sh> yeah :)
<farruinn> \sh: are you still in montreal?
<\sh> farruinn, jepp....tomorrow evening we're leaving
<KyralRetsam> yah farruinn and I are actually like 4 feet from each other right now ;P
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft | UBZ MOTU Meeting 2005-11-05 - Time: 21:40  UTC - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<KyralRetsam> whee!!
<KyralRetsam> I actually have this screen on a projector so the entire PNYTeam can view the meeting ;P
* bmonty_laptop has some evil thoughts
<KyralRetsam> yes....?
<KyralRetsam> keep in mind that my other ghost is here as well ;P
<KyralRetsam> dang this thing is taking a while to compile
<slomo> KyralRetsam: how is the progress with your package? :)
* KyralRetsam falls down
<KyralRetsam> make[2] : *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop
<slomo> nice ;)
<KyralRetsam> Why do I think that has to do with my Arch setting?
<slomo> does it work when compiling by hand?
<slomo> hi ivoks :)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> i'm building xen :)
<slomo> KyralRetsam: no idea... can't be caused by that unless you've done something completly wrong ;)
<slomo> ivoks: :) will you work on good xen integration into dapper? :P
<ivoks> slomo: i doubt that...
<ivoks> slomo: but if help is needed...
<ivoks> The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) and Novell Linux Desktop line.
<ivoks> hehe
<slomo> the GNOME interface for what? or GNOME itself as default desktop enviromnent?
<ivoks> as desktop and for their tools
<ivoks> (novell's)
<slomo> great news :)
<bmonty_laptop> ivoks: can you use Xen to run breezy and dapper?
<hunger> slomo: I just hacked up some xen debs:-)
<KyralRetsam> Xen is sexy
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: i intend to use it for RHEL AS 4
<ivoks> did anyone tried flock?
<slomo> hunger: nice :) will you upload them somewhere?
<KyralRetsam> hmm is there anyway to tell if a package is going to produce multiple binaries?
<hunger> slomo: I do not have webspace. I'll upload them if I find some space to do so.
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: have you built from the tarball?
<ivoks> hunger: i have space
<KyralRetsam> LaserJock, I'm doing that now
<KyralRetsam> no pbuilder ;P
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will be built on a i686-pc-linux-gnu system to run
<KyralRetsam> on a i686-pc-linux-gnu system, with the following options:
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build audio_blocks toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build effects toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build NNet toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build HMM toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build VQ toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build FuzzyEngine toolkit
<KyralRetsam> FlowDesigner will build vflow toolkit
<KyralRetsam> I apologize for the paste
<hunger> ivoks: Cool:-) I just started on them today (and these are my first debs, so they will suck).
<slomo> KyralRetsam: multiple binary packages... hmm... look at my faad2 package for example =)
<ivoks> uh :)
<hunger> ivoks: I'll send them your way once lintian likes them;-)
<ivoks> uh :)
<KyralRetsam> well, that LOOKS like it will produce multiple debs
<slomo> hunger: did you base them on the "official" ones from the xen hp? (iirc there were some)
* ivoks comiles it's own kernel and tools
<hunger> slomo: I tried to reuse those from xenophobia.
<ivoks> we need xen in kernel
<hunger> slomo: But I wanted to try cdbs, so I rewrote almost everything.
<ivoks> that way i wouldn't have to kill my 20 days uptime on laptop :)
<hunger> ivoks: ... and the glibc patch for TLS if it is not already there.
<magnon> dholbach <3
<bmonty_laptop> ivoks: would you mind taking a look at the debdiff on #3082 and uploading if it is ok?
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: i'll hit bugs and uploads as soon as UBZ finishes
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: give me the url and i'll take a look
<ivoks> bmonty_laptop: when i get feedback on some desicions
<bmonty_laptop> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-helper-scripts/+bug/3082
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: I sent an email to the debian maintainers for gphpedit
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: looks fine... i'll upload it after a deeper look in a few minutes
<hunger> How do I find out what actually made it into the debs I created?
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: k, thanks....it was a simple fix
<slomo> yes
<bmonty_laptop> hunger: use debdiff
<bmonty_laptop> or dpkg-deb -c
<hunger> bmonty_laptop: Ah... that's it. I have been trying deb-dpkg :-)
<dholbach> magnon: :)
<LaserJock> in a copyright file, do I need a year?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: uploaded
<LaserJock> what year do I use? I mean where would I find that info? Do I just use 2005?
<slomo> LaserJock: it should be written somewhere in the sources... normally you'll find something like "Copyright (c) year, years name"
<LaserJock> slomo: well what if that info isn't there?
<hunger> Arrg! xen's build system SUCKS!
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> it rocks
* hunger was about to rewrite it a while back, but was told not to.
<slomo> LaserJock: run away an cry ;)
<hunger> ivoks: Each tool subdir uses a differnt rule-name to build stuff.
<slomo> LaserJock: or leave the year out
<KyralRetsam> 5 minutes to meeting!
<LaserJock> slomo: hmm, the COPYING file in the source is just a copy of the GPL
<slomo> LaserJock: look at the actual sourcefiles
<ivoks> see you... bye
<LaserJock> slomo: they say, look at the COPYING file
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: thanks
<slomo> LaserJock: who is they?
<LaserJock> slomo: the sourcefiles
<slomo> LaserJock: nice ;) then leave the year out...
<KyralRetsam> LaserJock, what are you working on?
<hub> dholbach: when is the MOTU BOF?
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: plotdrop. it is on gnomefiles too
<KyralRetsam> cool
<dholbach> hub: should be now or something
<KyralRetsam> another package for MOTUScience!
<KyralRetsam> We should run through GNOMEFiles on recon soon
<hub> dholbach: 'cause I'm waiting after magnon to come bac
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: that is why I put it on the MOTUScience wiki ;-)
<magnon> motu is now yeah
<hub> dholbach: where is it?
<KyralRetsam> here
<KyralRetsam> I thnk
<magnon> where the hell is here
<hub> here
* KyralRetsam points to the channel
<magnon> no, the BOF
<magnon> siretart: joining the motu bof?
<magnon> dholbach: where!=
<ajmitch> magnon: we're in the main room, not sure if we're moving
<\sh> ok
<\sh> we're joining #buntu-meeting ?
<KyralRetsam> so the IRC Meeting is gonna happen at the same time as the BOF or am I just very confused
<magnon> I can't see you
<\sh> yes
<KyralRetsam> so here?
<KyralRetsam> or #ubuntu-meeting?
<\sh> ubuntu meeting
<\sh> magnon: #ubuntu-meeting
<hunger> I think I am too stupid for cdbs. I'll better redo this in a more conventional way.
<KyralRetsam> does "any" in Arch entry have to be capitialized?
<Mithrandir> KyralRetsam: no, it should not be.
<KyralRetsam> okay...
<magnon> Ubuntu MOTU meeting => #ubuntu-meeting
<hunger> How do I do conffiles in multi binary environments?
<crimsun> tritium: ping, #ubuntu-meeting
<tritium> thanks, crimsun
<zakame> hello all
<\sh> #buntu-meeting if u want to attend the meeting
<koke> #ubuntu-meeting ;)
<KyralRetsam> should I make FlowDesigner Arch: any or Arch: all
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: from what I understand, you want any
<KyralRetsam> yah
<zakame> KyralRetsam: Arch: all is for those architecture-independent types of programs :)
<KyralRetsam> which mean.....
<zakame> if a package involves some gcc compiling, then it's most likely an arch: any package
<KyralRetsam> Yah....its GCC :P
<LaserJock> ones, like python that are arch independent. C/C++ progs on the other hand will make arch dependent binarys
<tritium> crimsun, normally, nothing takes me away from N.D. football, but I'll make an exception today ;)
<KyralRetsam> so arch any or arch all
<crimsun> it is impossible to tell who's saying what at the bof, which is unfortunate
<KyralRetsam> so if it uses GCC, then make it Arch: Any?
<LaserJock> KyralRetsam: that is what I think
<KyralRetsam> kk
<zakame> Kyral: yep
<KyralRetsam> it compiles clean outta the tarball
<hunger> Hmmm... how do I move files from one deb into another during build?
<crimsun> dh_movefiles
<KyralRetsam> Wow...this is as clear as mud
<zakame> haha
<LaserJock> no kidding
<crimsun> essentially the issue is that we have a ton of packages to handle via merge
<KyralRetsam> Umm, guys at UBZ, like
<KyralRetsam> make a meeting to summerize the MOTUBof
<KyralRetsam> because this is really really making no sense ;P
<crimsun> we want to reduce that number of merged packages by pushing changes upstream (at least to Debian if not upstream upstream)
<zakame> crimsun: yep, more than 15k I believe?
<crimsun> that way we convert those merges to simple syncs from Debian
<crimsun> (a merge being a Ubuntu-specific change, i.e., any package with -XubuntuY versioning)
<KyralRetsam> they are called debdiffs ;P
<crimsun> debdiffs are more general, since they can be used in any situation
<KyralRetsam> oh you want a solution for Ubuntu to Debian things
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: so the main idea is to get debain maintainers to accept our fixes and then sync them into ubuntu?
<KyralRetsam> s/ubuntu/debian?
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: partly, yes
<slomo> wasn't there this utnubu project which wanted to get ubuntu changes back into debian?
<slomo> did they silently die?
<zakame> hmmm, that would somewhat require us to get patches up to debian's bts
<magnon> you guys should talk in #ubuntu-meeting if you have comments to our agenda and discussion
<crimsun> I'm just clarifying the situation, since there was confusion.
<KyralRetsam> someone channel this into that
<KyralRetsam> hmm
<KyralRetsam> it compiles clean from tarball
<KyralRetsam> but not in pbuilder
<zakame> KyralRetsam: prolly missing dep?
<KyralRetsam> no
<KyralRetsam> its complaining about a makerule
<zakame> KyralRetsam: what's the rule?
<KyralRetsam> no rule to make target "all"
<zakame> in what directory did this happen?
<KyralRetsam> vflow
<tritium> What's this UVF I keep seeing?
<zakame> upstream version freeze
<tritium> ah
<KyralRetsam> It doesn't even look like ./configure is being run
<zakame> hmm, isn't that supposed to be in your debian/rules?
<KyralRetsam> yah...
<KyralRetsam> and it looks like it too
<KyralRetsam> yanno I'm gonna start over right now :P
* tritium grabs lunch during halftime
<magnon> ok
<magnon> MOTU dinner in montreal
<magnon> everyone's welcome
<magnon> :D
<crimsun> yeah, let me just strap on my jet shoes
<KyralRetsam> Will you drive me?
<zakame> eat for us ;)
<magnon> I'm in montreal already, sorry
<slomo> magnon: will you get a flight ticket for me? ;)
<KyralRetsam> damn you to hell!
<magnon> mm, I just have enough to pay the hotel, sorry
<KyralRetsam> naywy time to get outta dodge
<\sh> sladen: we have to sign keys
<zakame> hmm is revu down?
<bmonty_laptop> works for me
<zakame> oh, yes, its up, damn dialup lag :(
<zakame> seems that many reviewers are busy, my upload hasn't been reviewed yet :(
<hunger> Any idea why dpatch might fail? patch -p1 works.
<hunger> dpatch says the patch was rejected and creates a .rej for the file I want patched.
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> did you dpatchify the diff?
<zakame> is the file involved changed during prebuild, before dpatching?
<hunger> crimsun: Yes. the unchanged thing works.
<hunger> zakame: this is the one and only patch that gets applied.
<crimsun> must be changed during clean or something, as zakame alluded to
<crimsun> and you're in the top-level of the source, I presume?
<hunger> zakame: The file is in exactly the state I want it to be (unpatched). When calling dpatch apply-all it fails.
<zakame> hub: what does the .rej look like?
<hub> zakame: ?
<hub> zs
<hub> zakame: you mean hunger?
<zakame> hub: oops, I meant hunger, sorry :)
<zakame> hunger: : what does the .rej look like?
<hunger> zakame: i do not see anything strange in it.
<siretart> zakame: hardly, I'm via ssh on tiber
<zakame> siretart: ???
<zakame> hunger: can you apply the .rej manually, as in hunk by hunk?
<hunger> zakame: I think so...
<\sh> siretart: i don't have a mail from u
<siretart> \sh: 2005-11-05 22:59:49 1EYW4d-00066t-Ux => sh@linux-server.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=mail.linux-server.org [80.237.233.3]  X=TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32
<siretart> \sh: ?
<siretart> zakame: you said tiber was down
<\sh> siretart: argl...sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> now i have to setup my account for sh@linux-server.org
<zakame> siretart: yes, i did, but it was my connection acting up, sorry
<siretart> \sh: shall I resend the mail?
<\sh> siretart: would be nice :)
<zakame> hunger: hmmm, maybe your dpatch is not patching to the right file...
<hunger> zakame: I somehow messed up the patch.
<hunger> zakame: I recreated the dpatch. Now it works. I can not see any diff, but something did go wrong with the last conversion.
<zakame> hunger: wtg :D
<bmonty_laptop> can someone help with some questions on ongoing-merge?
<bmonty_laptop> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/liblockfile-simple-perl/
<bmonty_laptop> clear
<slomo> is MoM running again? and does it fill bugreports? ;)
<bmonty_laptop> not sure
<bmonty_laptop> i'm confused because the merge page seems to show that there is an ubuntu version of the latest from debian, but it doesn't appear to be in the archive
<siretart> \sh: now you should have it
<\sh> siretart: yeppp
<\sh> thx
<_thierry> where do we post the patchs for the packages https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
<_thierry> ?
<crimsun> _thierry: malone
<crimsun> I'm around doing fixing, so I'll look if you give me a bug #
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: archive only has 0.2.5-4ubuntu1
<_thierry> crimsun : ok but are the bugs already open, or do I need to open one for each package?
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: where's the discrepancy?
<crimsun> _thierry: no need to open new ones, just give me a debdiff
<_thierry> crimsun : by e-mail?
<crimsun> _thierry: posted on the Web is best so that I can wget
<crimsun> _thierry: otherwise, an e-mail attachment suffices
<_thierry> crimsun : well I don't have web site but if you can give me somewhere to post on... otherwise, what is your e-mail adress?
<crimsun> _thierry: crimsun at fungus dot sh dot nu
<_thierry> crimsun : k thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-11
<crimsun> _thierry: am I supposed to be awaiting one?
<_thierry> cirmsun : well no like RIGHT NOW, but in maybe 10 minutes, you'll get at least one...
<_thierry> crimsun
<crimsun> crimsun: ok
<crimsun> wow, -ENOBRAIN
<zakame> crimsun: hahaha
<slomo> crimsun: hehe, don't worry... that happenend to me too some weeks ago ;)
<_thierry> what is package for dch?
<crimsun> devscripts
<_thierry> thanks
<Kyral> hmm
* Kyral beats his crontab
<Kyral> How do I get it working...its not running
<_thierry> crimsun : crap, dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -S doesn't work on gksu package... is there something that changed?
<_thierry> ho wait a minute...
<_thierry> sorry, cdbs wasn't installed
<_thierry>  debian/rules clean
<_thierry> test -x debian/rules
<_thierry> test "`id -u`" = 0
<_thierry> make: *** [testroot]  Erreur 1
<_thierry> crimsun : now I really get an error I don't understand
<zakame> _thierry: do you have fakeroot?
<zakame> _thierry: I think you should do dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S
<_thierry> k... installing fakeroot and then going to try
<slomo> yes that will work
<_thierry> worked! thanks zakame!
<zakame> _thierry: no problem :)
<_thierry> crimsun : by debdiff you mean like file.debdiff or I debdiff to get file.patch?
<crimsun> _thierry: generate a debdiff between either the .changes, the .dscs, or the .debs
<_thierry> crimsun : I know but you want a .debdiff file a or .patch file?
<_thierry> well I don't know, YOU will apply the changes!
<crimsun> _thierry: whichever's easier for you to generate
<_thierry> k
<crimsun> I'm fairly flexible
<_thierry> crimsun : just sent one for gksu
<_thierry> crimsun : I'd like to know if that's ok before working on a second one
<crimsun> _thierry: ok, looking
<_thierry> mmm when I try the command grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate I get xargs : dlocate, no such file or directory... is it because I'm on kubuntu or is there some package missing?
<crimsun> you have to install dlocate
<crimsun> (it's not installed by default)
<crimsun> alternately, you can replace dlocate there with dpkg -S
<_thierry> crimsun : no package dlocate with apt-get
<_thierry> k
<crimsun> dlocate is in universe
<crimsun> btw, gtksu is in main
<crimsun> err, gksu
<_thierry> ho ok!
<crimsun> you'll have to ask a main uploader for breezy-updates
<crimsun> otherwise the debdiff looks fine to me
<crimsun> err, the diff
<_thierry> crimsun : and where can I get a main uploader for breezy-updates ?
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: the descrepancy is that the ubuntu patch is for a 0.2.5-7ubuntu1 which would be an ubuntu version of the latest from debian, but that isn't in the archive
<bmonty_laptop> does MoM create that package automatically?
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: 0.2.5 _is_ in the archive
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: there's no new upstream version at hand here, only the Debian & Ubuntu changes
<bmonty_laptop> debian is at 0.2.5-7 ubuntu is at 0.2.5-4
<bmonty_laptop> or am I missing something?
<crimsun> see -4ubuntu1 vs. -7ubuntu1
<crimsun> there's nothing amiss
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: I'm looking at #3193 which has to do with the section the package is in
<_thierry> crimsun : and where can I get a main uploader for breezy-updates ?
<bmonty_laptop> if I grab the latest source package the control file lists the section at libs
<crimsun> _thierry: sh, ajmitch, ogra, siretart, or ask in -devel.
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: reading 3193
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: I think we can just sync in the 0.2.5-7 from debian, since they incorporated the ubuntu patch
<bmonty_laptop> debain 0.2.5-6 solves 3193
<_thierry> ajmitch : I'd like you to upload a change for breezy-update (absolute icon path bug) can I send you my patch by e-mail?
<bmonty_laptop> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/libl/liblockfile-simple-perl/liblockfile-simple-perl_0.2.5-7/changelog
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: sorry, this is kinda trivial, but I want to make sure I understand what is in the merge info and it isn't making since to me right now
<bmonty_laptop> s/since/sense
* ajmitch has to get gpg key processed first
<slomo> _thierry: that's probably not critical enough for -updates
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, ping
<ajmitch> -updates is for critical fixes only
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: yes, just ask elmo to sync it and to override the Ubuntu changes
<ajmitch> mdz has to review *everythin* for -updates
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: ok, thats what I thought...thanks for the help
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: np
<crimsun> _thierry: it's suitable for dapper; just change the distro
<_thierry> crimsun : and how do I change the distro?
<crimsun> _thierry: use dch -Ddapper, or just edit it manually
<_thierry> crimsun : like changing every appearance of breezy in the patch by dapper?
<crimsun> _thierry: no, just your change
<crimsun> _thierry: gksu (1.3.0-1ubuntu12) dapper; urgency=low
<_thierry> crimsun : not dapper-updates?
<crimsun> _thierry: can't be dapper-updates, we haven't even released dapper
<bmonty_laptop> what is the best email for elmo?
<_thierry> crimsun : ok I see, they I ask again ajmitch or someone like that?
<crimsun> james.troup@canonical or james.troup@u.c
<_thierry> then *
<Burgundavia> bmonty_laptop, ohyah@ridethewildelmo.com
<Kyral> I swear I have to change the "Depends" section to something in control if I make it Arch-Indep
<crimsun> _thierry: yes
<bmonty_laptop> thanks
<_thierry> ajmitch : ok I have some change for gksu for dapper (absolute icon path bug) can I sen you my patch by e-mail ?
<bmonty_laptop> _thierry: you can attach the debdiff to the bug in malone, then anyone with upload rights can take a look at it
<LaserJock> do I need debhelper for a very simple, small package?
<_thierry> bmonty_laptop : wich bug? I made the change following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
<Burgundavia> _thierry, file a bug on gksudo and attach the patch
<crimsun> LaserJock: how are you going to generate the deb otherwise?
<_thierry> ok then
<bmonty_laptop> _thierry: sorry I assumed you were working on malone bugs...
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't know. This thing just runs make. no ./configure, no nothing. I don't want to overkill it. What is the bare minimum I need in debian/rules?
<\sh> LaserJock: which package? which software?
<LaserJock> \sh: http://icculus.org/~jcspray/plotdrop/
<_thierry> Burgundavia : are you sure filing a bug is a good idea? Because the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath is pretty long and if we file a bug for each package, it will be very long
<crimsun> LaserJock: are you using cdbs or anything?
<Burgundavia> _thierry, that way the bug doesn't get lost being sent to a single person
<_thierry> Burgundavia : k
<Burgundavia> _thierry, plus you get karma for filing bugs in malone
<_thierry> Burgundavia : and what is karma?
<LaserJock> crimsun: not yet, probably won't if it is a simple thing
<Burgundavia> _thierry, anytime you do work in lp, you get karma
<\sh> _thierry: yeah it's actually a good idea
<Kyral> I <3 Makefiles
<Kyral> I mean like normal Makefiles :D
<\sh> LaserJock: what about the hoary package?
<Burgundavia> _thierry, more bugs are not a bad idea, especially if tere is already a fix for it
<\sh> LaserJock: is it worth it to work on, or do you think it's better to do a debian/* rewrite?
<LaserJock> \sh: well, I have never made a package from scratch and I think this prog would be really nice so I wanted to do it all myself
<Kyral> is LibGnomeUi-2.0 not in Dapper yet?
<slomo> sure it is
<LaserJock> \sh: BTW what info could I get from the .deb without the source package?
<Kyral> tell that to my search pattern
<slomo> it's in libgnomeui-0
<bmonty_laptop> Burgundavia: that email for elmo that you gave me doesn't work
<Kyral> wouldn't libgnome2-dev install it?
<Kyral> guess not...
<slomo> Kyral: libgnomeui-dev will
<slomo> Kyral: libgnomeui depends on libgnome but not the other way around ;)
<Kyral> yah
<Burgundavia> bmonty_laptop, it is a joke
<Kyral> So is it overkill to have libgnomeui and libgnome in the same builddeps?
<slomo> Kyral: it doesn't hurt ;) i usually add everything that configure.ac mentions
<bmonty_laptop> Burgundavia: k :)
* bmonty_laptop listens to the joke whoosing past his head
<Kyral> Yanno what I can't read that thing, I don't understand it ;P
<Kyral> So i'm gonna keep running PBuilder until I get it right :P
<slomo> hehe
<_thierry> crimsun : when I do grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate I get the options list of dlocate...
<Kyral> God I love having a local Dapper mirror
<Kyral> 34 MB worth of packages, downloaded in less than 2 secs
<crimsun> _thierry: copy and paste error? It works fine here.
<crimsun> (Dapper)
<_thierry> thierry@modemcable163:~$ grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate
<_thierry> Usage: dlocate [option]  [string...] 
<_thierry> Options:
<_thierry>     (no option) string  list all records that match
<_thierry>     -S        string      list records where files match
<_thierry>     -L        package     list all files in package
<_thierry> crimsun : any idea?
<Kyral> Is it a good idea once this thing builds in my Dapper PBuilder to see if it builds in Breezy, Sarge, and Sid?
<slomo> Kyral: when you want to target these too... yes
<Kyral> Then is it bad that I named it with an Ubuntu string? :P
<crimsun> _thierry: doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm not completely functional atm (low blood sugar)
<slomo> Kyral: no... for ubuntu you'll need -0ubuntu1 ;)
<Kyral> thats what I did
<Kyral> I meant if I want to put it in Debian ;P
<slomo> when you want this in debian you'll need to make it -1... nothing to worry about now :P the first thing for debian would be to find a sponsor anyway... can be really hard ;)
* Kyral looks at ajmitch
<Kyral>  ;P
<slomo> yes, he for example ;) but he has maybe 5 packages by me in his queue now... and many other things ;)
<Kyral> I think I also have Simon Law(Izzat right?) who could help me
<Kyral> he signed my GPG Key at Ubuntu Love
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes?
<Kyral> read up ;P
<ajmitch> why the ':p' for everything?
<Kyral> because half the time I'm joking around :D
<magnon> ":p" is universal
<Kyral> and I actually don't know why I felt like it?
<ajmitch> magnon: universal, but not for every sentence.. :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: if you want me to sponsor stuff, I might add it to my queue
<Kyral> hihi
<Kyral> I think I'll get it into Ubuntu first :D
<slomo> ajmitch: you'll get another package for your queue soon ;) sda should finally build in experimental ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: yay
<Kyral> experimental == sid?
<ajmitch> no
<Kyral> or experimental == etch?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> debian has stable, testing, unstable
<crimsun> experimental is just experimental
<slomo> ajmitch: and i have to try for banshee and deps if they're ready for experimental
<LaserJock> experimental == experimental
<ajmitch> and experimental which isn't a distribution to install
<Kyral> Wasn't that supposed to be the deal with Sid?
<ajmitch> this is for stuff not yet for sid
<Kyral> ooooo
<Kyral> You don't know how much you have intrigued me
<crimsun> careful
<crimsun> down that path, the 'b' word lies
<Kyral> I assume I can build a PBuilder for it by copying my Sid tgz and other stuff and just upgrading it
<Kyral> Broken?
<crimsun> no, the other 'b'
<Kyral> bad?
<\sh> siretart: the wrap up talks started already?
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> I'll just make a PBuilder for it
<ajmitch> mark is talking now
<Kyral> oooh
<LaserJock> what if a package doesn't come with a man page? Do I need to make one?
* \sh has a phone call now....:(
<Kyral> I showed pictures I took at Ubuntu Love, and people thought Mark was a woman
<\sh> doesn't matter private life is more important right now
* Kyral thinks he will build a PBuilder for this "experimental"
<Kyral> I want my packages to be bulletproof after all :D
<magnon> \sh: group photo now!
<\sh> fck
<Kyral> Hey does the new version of dput have REVU in there automatically?
<bmonty_laptop> according to the changelog it does
<Kyral> niiiice
<Kyral> Hohoh! It builds in Dapper!
<LaserJock> Kyral: what does?
<Kyral> FlowDevelop
<Kyral> now to clean it up
<LaserJock> cool
<Kyral> W: flowdesigner source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<Kyral> wtf?
<LaserJock> Kyral: i think that is a debian thing
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: it is saying your name is in the changelog, but you aren't the maintainer
<LaserJock> Kyral: in debian if someone who is not the "maintainer" uploads something they are supposed to put NMU in the changelog
<bmonty_laptop> for debian that is a non-maintainer upload (NMU)
<Kyral> but my name is in the Maintainer field
<crimsun> disregard it
<crimsun> it's probably the old -0ubuntuX issue
<minghua> I think crimsun is correct
* Kyral smacks himself
<Kyral> I'm an idiot
<Kyral> I deleted the orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> Thank god its still in the Result cache
<_thierry> crimsun could you check the patch at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bluefish/+bug/3946 just be sure I'm doing alright?
<crimsun> _thierry: sure
<crimsun> _thierry: looks fine, thanks.
<Kyral> E: flowdesigner source: build-depends-indep-without-arch-indep
<Kyral> wazzat mean
<minghua> Kyral: run lintian with --info :-)
<minghua> or some option similar to that
<minghua> Kyral: I guess it's complaining that you have a Build-Depends-Indep line in debian/control, but don't build any arch:all package
<Kyral> should this package be an Arch: All package?
* Kyral is still confused on the difference between Any and All
<minghua> Kyral: no, arch:all is something architecture independent
<minghua> therefore the -Indep suffix
<Kyral> so stuff like interpreted langs?
<Kyral> ie, Perl, Python, etc?
<minghua> yes, like perl modules
<minghua> if the source is C/C++, it should be arch:any
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> how do I know if .ex files are being used?
<crimsun> _thierry: hmm, that bug has already been fixed in the previous upload
<crimsun> _thierry: I'm closing it, see the changelog for the current one (http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/b/bluefish/bluefish_1.0.1-0ubuntu3/changelog). I just verified by looking at the patch attached by bddebian.
<minghua> Kyral: there are not used at all, you need to either modify and rename them, or delete them
<Kyral> so if I didn't'
<Kyral> touch 'em delete'em
<crimsun> _thierry: actually, you should go ahead and close it.
<crimsun> _thierry: cite the changelog from 1.0.1-0ubuntu3.
<crimsun> (his wording is imprecise, but his patch is correct)
<_thierry> crimsun : ok but why was the bug still in the source package?
<crimsun> no idea, but debian/patches/ contains a patch for it.
<Kyral> okay trimmed the package down, and the only Lintain errors I am getting are those NMU ones
<Kyral> linda is clean
<crimsun> rockin'
<Kyral> now to see if it still builds ;D
<_thierry> crimsun : I don't like that, having a patch who's not applied is pretty strange
<crimsun> _thierry: it's probably suitable to work with a new upstream version
* Kyral has to make a cronjob that automatically updates his PBuilders every night while he sleeps
<crimsun> (1.0.4, that is)
<Kyral> Only thign I don't like about this package is how long it takes to compile
<_thierry> crimsun : ok following your advice, closing the bug
<_thierry> crimsun : I have also posted #3941 and #3947
<_thierry> if you want to take a quick look
<crimsun> _thierry: I'll cite your patch in the changelog for 1.0.4-1ubuntu1
<_thierry> I don't have the permission to close a malone bug... anyone could help me (give me permission or close a bug for me?)
<crimsun> I'll close it
<_thierry> k thanks
<Kyral> If this builds it will be ready for REVU
<minghua> so how the MOTUs are using dapper now?
<Kyral> I'm not a MOTU but I'm on Dapper
<minghua> I just tried upgrading my breezy chroot to dapper, but it seems ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable right now
<minghua> so I had to settle for x-window-system-core and gnome-core
<Kyral> why the hell is your PBuilder having Ubuntu-Desktop?
<crimsun> minghua: I'm on Dapper
<minghua> Kyral: no, I'm not talking about a pbuilder, I'm talking about a chroot I can work in
<Kyral> ah
<crimsun> at this point Dapper is fairly stable
<Kyral> Prolly I didn't have the problem with Ubuntu-Desktop because I don';t have it ;P
<minghua> I need to work on my scim pacakges (which is X input method, so needs X for testing, and preferrably many X apps)
<Kyral> crimsun, since the closest "standard" Ubuntu I have would be to Xubuntu, should I install Xubuntu-Desktop?
<minghua> crimsun: yes, I agree it's stable (my barebone gnome works fine now)
<crimsun> Kyral: whichever works for you
<Kyral> I love having a hodgepodge of stuff :D
<Kyral> I'm afraid to remove GNOME though...
<minghua> crimsun: but the problem is that evince, sound-juicer and some other apps are uninstallable right now, which makes ubuntu-desktop broken
<Kyral> dunno what it would do to my system
<crimsun> minghua: right
<minghua> crimsun: and I didn't upgrade from an installed breezy
<minghua> crimsun: I just upgraded from an X-less breezy chroot
<minghua> in hindsight, I should have installed ubuntu-desktop in breezy, then upgrade
<minghua> oh well
<crimsun> _thierry: uploaded.
<crimsun> out for dinner, back later.
<_thierry> crimsun : thanks! you have upload rights??
<_thierry> crimsun : I also opened #3951
<Kyral> Built
<LaserJock> Kyral: installs ok?
<Kyral> checking
<Kyral> Seems so
<Kyral> doesn't have a Desktop file though
<LaserJock> hmm, can you put one in ?
<Kyral> I dunno how to make one
<Kyral> nor where it would go
<LaserJock> check out wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<Kyral> what if there is no Icon
<LaserJock> not sure
<Kyral> This thing doesn't even show up in the Debian Menus
<LaserJock> Kyral:?
<Kyral> It isn't listed in the Debian menus
<LaserJock> If it doesn't have a .desktop file I don't think it will
<LaserJock> maybe I'm wrong about that though
<Kyral> No, there are apps in there w/o .desktop files
<Kyral> Its GUI, but it needs at least a Debian menufile
<LaserJock> Kyral: it needs a .desktop file. I don't think it should go in the Debian menu at all
<Kyral> LaserJock, I'm sayin' if I can't make a .desktop file I can at least make it so it appears in the Debian Menu
<Kyral> I can make a menufile in the debian dir
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, I think we should work on a .desktop file. We have a whol list of packages that appear only on the debian menu. I don't think we should be contribute
<minghua> That's a good question
<minghua> I don't know what is ubuntu's position on this issue
<minghua> I never use debian issue myself
<LaserJock> Kyral: take a look at a package that has a .desktop file
<Kyral> Can I make a .desktop file without modifying the source...
<Kyral> LaserJock, I did
<LaserJock> yes, but it in /debian
<Kyral> And I'm also going for full compatablity with Debian on this one
<Kyral> IIRC the .desktop files are only used in GNOME and KDE, right?
<LaserJock> no they are the freedesktop.org standard
<Kyral> the other WMs use the Debian Menu, right? (Correct me if I am wrong)
<LaserJock> they shouldn't but they probably do
* Kyral falls down
<LaserJock> I think that point is that we should all be moving towards the freedesktop.org standard
<Kyral> Yanno what I'll make both
<Kyral> I just want this package to be DONE
<LaserJock> Kyral: it is probably ok, but we should not make a package that has only Debian menus.
<Kyral> You're gonna make me compile this thing again....
<Kyral> This thing takes like an hour to compile
* Kyral sighs and revs the PBuilder again
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, as my dad used to say, "it builds character"
<Kyral> Yanno what
<Kyral> lets just email the devs with the next pack that this produces and ask them for an icon
<Kyral> THEN we can make a desktop file
<LaserJock> Kyral: that sounds reasonable
<Kyral> right now I really wish I had HyperThreading
<Kyral> Because I'm compiling and prelinking at the same time and I somehow think that isn't good for my CPU
<LaserJock> what kind of machine are you running?
<Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.14-ck1-UltimateInsaneFreedomDestinyDarknessAndLight, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2333Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4673 BMIPs | MEM 173/500MB RAM Used, 48/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS | STATS Uptime 1.93d, Users 1(2), Procs 138(678070), Load 1.80 | X11 1280x1024x24
<Kyral> you had to give me an excuse to use that ;P
<LaserJock> Kyral: how did you get all that info?
<Kyral> SystemInfo script
<LaserJock> cool. I am running on a AMD XP 2100+ (actually an oc 1800+) with 768 MB Ram
<Kyral> I used to have a 2100
<Kyral> then I got this 2700+
<LaserJock> I am saving up for an AMD64
<Kyral> if you have the right Mobo chipset you are supposed to be able to O/C to 2.9 GHz
<Kyral> but all I can get is 2.3
<Kyral> up from 2.1
<LaserJock> I'm at 1.7 :(
<Kyral> Heard the nForce boards allow you to unlock your chip with just the flip of a BIOS option
<Kyral> I'll upgrade to AMD64 like next summer
<Kyral> For me it isn't how fast the chip is, its how fast I can MAKE it go
<tseng> oh yeah
<tseng> thats a great idea..
<Kyral> so I'll always take the chip that O/C's better
<tseng> while you are at it, build on reiser4
<Kyral> Nah
<Kyral> tseng, I monitor my temps very carefully
<Kyral> and I don't feel like jumping my VCore just yet
<tseng> im not sure what an extra 200mhz buys you these days
<Kyral> though that should allow me to jump the multiplier more
<Kyral> Yah I actually want more/faster RAM
<Kyral> the only bad thing about the 2700+ is that is stock FSB is 333
<schweeb> meh, overclocking is for chumps.  just spec your hardware appropriately and deal with it
<tseng> schweeb: <3
<Kyral> and I have PC3200, so I need to push it to a 400 MHz FSB
<Kyral> which can't be done without upping the VCore
<schweeb> you have a machine that runs Gentoo, don't you :P
<Kyral> me?
<schweeb> y
<Kyral> no, did you not see my stats?
<Kyral> Ubuntu 6.04 The Dapper Drake
<tseng> oh man you ran a stats script in here?
<Kyral> I am insulted!
<LaserJock> schweeb: I used to run Gentoo on mine
<tseng> please kindly never do that again
<Kyral> LaserJock, asked me for my computer stats
<Kyral> I know I know :P
<tseng> i dont care who asked you
<tseng> we dont allow scripts
<Kyral> Believe me I know. Back on the Undernet it was a bannable offense
<LaserJock> tseng: sorry for my ignorance, what was the problem?
<schweeb> not to insult anyone, but my opinion of Gentoo is low for most cases
<Kyral> schweeb, mine is as well, which is why I was insulted that you suggest that I run Gentoo ;P
<LaserJock> schweeb: I can understand that. I had fun with it but now I am on Ubuntu only
<tseng> LaserJock: the problem is that allowing people to run scripts that spit out half a page of useless garbage invites more and more
<LaserJock> Gentoo is lots of fun. I really like it
<tseng> LaserJock: so.. zero tolerance
<Kyral> Yah I wont again
<tseng> lets all get back to the topic, please
<schweeb> Kyral: well, there's a certain profile that most Gentoo users fit in, and that includes O/C
<LaserJock> tseng: oh, OK. sorry about that
* schweeb reigns himself in
<Kyral> schweeb, its prolly since I built this thing while I was running XP
<tseng> schweeb: you too.
<Kyral> and thus it is quite overpowered for a Linux machine
<schweeb> tseng: yes yes, I ended it, I was already headed there.
* Kyral shuts up
<tseng> schweeb: *hugs*
<schweeb> tseng: where you living at again? MD?
<tseng> schweeb: West Chester PA
<Kyral> WHat would speed up compile times more? Faster CPU or Faster RAM?
<schweeb> ahh
<tseng> Kyral: cache, ram, bus, cpu..
<tseng> they are all important
<schweeb> all of the above
<Kyral> which is cheaper though ;P
<tseng> probably ram
<tseng> s/probably //
<LaserJock> can you put dpatch apply-all in build: ?
<schweeb> more RAM probably helps more than faster RAM to a certain extent
<tseng> LaserJock: better somewhere before configure
<Kyral> espcially since I cannot use the power of PC3200 at the moment
<LaserJock> tseng: there is no configure
<tseng> build is ok I guess
<tseng> there isnt a hard rule
<tseng> before stuff starts configure/building
<LaserJock> tseng: as long as it is before make though, right?
<tseng> yes
* Kyral makes a note to purchase some more RAM that can O/C well
<minghua> I think a "patch" target would be nice
<minghua> much more friendly to other people looking at your package
<minghua> there should be a target that gives the source tree you are going to use for building (and preferably documented)
<minghua> according to some discussion on planet.debian.org a few weeks ago
<tseng> somewhere in the "we hate dpatch" slapfest?
<minghua> it's Joey Hess's opinion by the way
<tseng> yes we respect joey
<minghua> tseng: yes, and I think they've got a point
<tseng> yes
<minghua> the point about having a target for getting only the patched source tree
<tseng> we didnt know
<tseng> dpatch seemed much easier for everyone to us
<tseng> lesson learned.
<tseng> hm i should make a snapshot of muine
* Kyral signs
<Kyral> Compiled CLEAN
<Kyral> and the .menu file I made works
<minghua> I use dpatch for all my packages too
<minghua> and I am going to add a debian/README.build for this
<tseng> its fine for your own packages
<Kyral> LaserJock, email the devs and tell them that I managed to make a debpack for Ubuntu Dapper that is available upon request
<tseng> will you put it on REVU?
<tseng> hi koke
<Kyral> I kinda want the dev approval first
<tseng> if he wanted to give you approval he wouldnt have written an open source software
<tseng> but your call :)
<LaserJock> can somebody take a look at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4130 for me
<Kyral> I'll upload it to REVU
<LaserJock> Kyral: the only thing is the .desktop file
<LaserJock> Kyral: you can alway update it later but we need to make sure that gets in
<Kyral> Yah I'm just tired after working on this thing all day
<Kyral> dput revu *.changes right?
<tseng> LaserJock: looks ok to me
<tseng> LaserJock: nice use of patch/unpatch
<tseng> but you need to include dpatch.mk
<tseng> for that to work
<LaserJock> tseng: right, thanks for reminding me
<tseng> np
<minghua> LaserJock: what is the build-stamp file for?
<minghua> LaserJock: as your install depends on build
<LaserJock> minghua: i need to take the build-stamp out
<LaserJock> I am just adjusting the dh_make rules file
<bmonty_laptop> anyone good with debconf? (check out #3922)
<Kyral> uploaded to REVU
<bmonty_laptop> I know what the problem is, but I'm unsure of how to fix it
<Kyral> bmonty_laptop, mind providing a full link?
<bmonty_laptop> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mediawiki/+bug/3922
<Kyral> Its in REVU
<Kyral> Now to test it against Breezy, Sarge, and Sid
<Kyral> Sid build in progress
<Kyral> We will know in an hour if it builds ;P
<Kyral> LaserJock, I made a note on the MOTUScience page that FlowDevelop is in REVU
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok , good work
<Kyral> Check this out
<Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=133
<LaserJock> not sure about this one
<Kyral> nani?
<minghua> the screenshot looks very OpenGL-ish to me
<Kyral> It is....
<Kyral> is there anything wrong with OGL?
<LaserJock> yeah, but I'm not sure if it is significantly different from stuff already in Debian/Ubuntu
<Kyral> It isn't in Debian/Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I would like us to make sure that we have the packages already in Ubuntu in good shape
<minghua> do we have GNOME chemistry utils packaged?
<LaserJock> Kyral: but there are other programs that do the same thing
* minghua agrees with LaserJock
<Kyral> ill check
<LaserJock> minghua: not sure. i think that somebody was looking at it
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> Can't win them all
<minghua> quality is more importatnt than quantity
* Kyral nods and suddenly collapses backward into his chair
<Kyral> okay...tired.
<bmonty_laptop> so if a package defaults to use apache2, should the debconf template default to install the config files in the apache2 conf.d?
<LaserJock> FlowDesigner is nice because it could be a LabView clone potentially which would be very exciting in the experimental science world
* Kyral curls up in his chair and catches a view ZzZs
<minghua> Kyral: I am not against OpenGL, it's just much harder to package
<bmonty_laptop> LabView is lots of money
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: oh yeah
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I have to make my own programs because my boss thinks LabView is a waste of time
<bmonty_laptop> I think the latest is about $2.5k per dev license....just bought it at work a couple of weeks ago
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: yeah, it can be cool for sure. I just don't like the price tag
<bmonty_laptop> I always thought that the best feature was the instrument libraries...not having to dig though the manuals for the GPIB commands was worth it to me :)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: man, i wish I could do that. I have to program all the GPIB stuff and National Instuments GPIB drivers still only work on 2.4 kernels
<bmonty_laptop> I haven't really used labview since probably 95 or 96...my experience with it is probably very dated
<LaserJock> what kind of header do you need to use dpatch?
<LaserJock> crap, dpatch is confusing me now
<Kyral> It builds in SID
<LaserJock> tseng: ping?
<tseng> yes?
<LaserJock> I am confused as to what I need to as an include in rules for dpatch
<tseng> dpatch.mk
<LaserJock> tseng: isn't that for cdbs?
<tseng> include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<tseng> no
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<LaserJock> thanks
<LaserJock> is it imperative that a package has a man page?
<Riddell> LaserJock: programs should all have man pages
<LaserJock> Riddell: if one doesn't exist is it ok to make one for it
<Riddell> LaserJock: actively encourged :)
<Riddell> makek it in docbook
<Riddell> make
<Kyral> Okay, whatever update to Evolution today happened, it broke Beagle
<Lathiat> im sure lots of thigns are broken ;)
<Kyral> Yah, but this is the first time something has actually broken on ;P
<tseng> beagle is working fine with evolution for me
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4132
<tseng> update evo-sharp
<Kyral> System is up to dote
<bmonty_laptop> can you send email to <bug #>@bugs.launchpad.net to add posts to a bug?
<Kyral> I reloaded XFCE and its better
<bmonty_laptop> time for bed...night all
<LaserJock> good night bmonty_laptop
<LaserJock> any MOTU around?
<Lathiat> yeh, sup?
<LaserJock> I am trying to package a small program. It want's to intsall a .glade file in /usr/share/ where should it go?
<Lathiat> traditionally /usr/share/<package>
<Lathiat> e.g. /usr/share/avahi/avahi-discover.glade
<LaserJock> ok, thanks that is what I was thinking
<Lathiat> some things use /usr/share/<package/interfaces/blah.glade
<Lathiat> probably more preference in that area than anything
<minghua|dapper> quite a few use /usr/share/<name>/glade/*.glade as well
<Lathiat> yeh
<LaserJock> ok
<minghua|dapper> just do a find /usr/share -name "*.glade" in dapper :-)
<LaserJock> minghua|dapper: that was very informative ;-)
<zakame> heya
<zakame> hi all, anyone up?
<schweeb> I am, kinda
<zakame> what's up?
<schweeb> not much, trying to get my server up and runnin again
<schweeb> nothing real exciting.
<zakame> hihi
<zakame> I was hoping a MOTU would revu my package :(
<schweeb> sorry, not MOTU yet :(
<Lathiat> zakame: wassit called?
<zakame> Lathiat: libmemcache :)
<zakame> it's at revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=863
<zakame> wb hunger
<unormal> @jaldhar: Don't we have an IRC meeting today or am I wrong?
<zakame> unormal: the motu meeting?
<unormal> zakame: No, a yast4debian meeting.
<zakame> unormal: ah
<Lathiat> that sounds ugly
<zakame> what?
<zakame> wb zyga
<schweeb> Lathiat: and painful
<Lathiat> and ugly
<zyga> zakame: hello :-)
<zyga> how are you this morning? :)
<zakame> zyga: making a ticket :)
<zakame> you?
<zyga> zakame: fixing everything i18n-wise :)
<zyga> it's shocking how much stuff just ignores i18n
<zakame> indeed
<zakame> wb magnon
<magnon> morning :P thanks
<magnon> I need to go to bed
<zakame> been up all night?
<magnon> been out all night
<magnon> you will get pictures on the wiki. :p
<zakame> cool!
<magnon> just had a few drinks with ogra, mark, jdub, etc. in the hotel reception
<magnon> and now it should be time for sleep soon
<zakame> ooh, so that's where the revu-wers have gone to!
<magnon> yes, that is why reinhardt isn't doing anything :P
<zyga> magnon: oh, tell ogra I need to talk to him
<magnon> but the spec for revu2 has been written
<magnon> zyga: gone to bed, it's kinda 5am
<zyga> magnon: right :)
<magnon> I could let him know if I remember
<magnon> but I don't think any of us will be much online tomorrow... only day off from UBZ and people are traveling too
<zyga> ubz is coming to an end? :)
<ivoks> middle :)
<magnon> yeah, middle
<magnon> only launchpad now though
<magnon> distro people are going home
<zakame> oh
<magnon> except poor pitti who has to work on launchpad :P
<zakame> awww
<shutdownrunner> I'm looking for sb, who could devote 2 minutes to me and help me make a deb package of screem. I mean I have problem with the last stage namely dpkg-buildpackage
<zakame> what's with dpkg-buildpackage?
<shutdownrunner> The program compiles fine with ./configure && make, but with dpkg-buildpackage I'm getting this http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4151
<zakame> hmmm, seems your ./configure forgot to link with some library
<ivoks> yup
<ivoks> you don't have one library
<zakame> do you have libgtk2.0-dev and libglade-dev as build-depends?
<shutdownrunner> yes I have them. With ./configure && make the program compiles without any problems
<shutdownrunner> but with dpkg-buildpackage it can't find some libs
<Nafallo> hmm, sounds like I should upload my screem or something :-P
<zakame> i screem! :p
<zakame> shutdownrunner: could you use debuild, then put the resulting .build in the pastebin?
* Nafallo puts screem 0.15.1-1ubuntu1 on http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/packages/
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you run ./configure, it finds out what libs you have
<shutdownrunner> Nafallo:the latest one is 0.16:)
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: and builds with them
<Nafallo> ah, time to update then...
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you run dpkg-buildpackage, then it runs it's own ./configure with options
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you are missing a lib, then it can't build
<Nafallo> I wonder if debian has it yet
* ivoks wants xen :)
<zakame> shutdownrunner: yes, iirc you have to explicitly set the build flags in debian/rules
<zakame> wb pef
<shutdownrunner> ivoks:I'm not missing any lib. It can't find these libs for some unknown reason when build with dpkg-buildpackage
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: i just told you why
<pef> hello
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: i bet you don't gave gnome print development package
<ivoks> shutdownrunner: libgnomeprint2.2-dev libgnomeprintui2.2-dev
<ivoks> or something...
<ivoks> anyway, i have to reboot
<zakame> tc ivoks
<shutdownrunner> Nafallo:could you send me your control file for screem? maybe I did make some mistake in it
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: just use debian exprimental and uupdate
<Nafallo> experimental even
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> built happily :-)
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: deb-src at the same URL last mentioned :-P
<Nafallo> and amd64 deb :-)
<zakame> bye all
<shutdownrunner> Nafallo:It's good to hear that it compiles for you. I know that I could compile it from deb-src, but what I want is to learn how to make a package from the beginning to the end:)
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: ah, oki. feel free to use the packages I made for reference :-).
<Nafallo> (ubuntu2 soon to be uploaded to local repo ;-))
<shutdownrunner> just a question. this problem with dpkg-buildpackage could be caused only by incorrect control configuration or maybe sth else rules or whatever?
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: looks like you have missed a Build-Dep, so yea :-)
<shutdownrunner> Nafallo:Tack sa mycket.
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: sls
<shutdownrunner> vad betyder det pa engelska
<Nafallo> shutdownrunner: no problem
<shutdownrunner> Nafallo:ok:)
<hunger> How do I install python stuff? Does that go into /usr/lib/pytho2.4/site-packages or directly into python2.4?
<alexamici> hunger: usually a distutils modules installs under site-packages (do you use 'python setup.py install'?)
<hunger> alexamici: Is that the proper place to install a deb into?
<hunger> alexamici: The Makefile uses: python setup.py install --home="$(DESTDIR)/usr
<alexamici> hunger: (for python2.4) yes
* alexamici looking for --home
<hunger> Wow, building debs is really easy! Doing it properly is rather hard though.
<hunger> dunkelgeist: Have you looked in the rosetta module of launchpad.ubuntu.com?
<alexamici> hunger: looks like --home tries to install under an unusual place. i have never encountered that
<hunger> alexamici: So should I leave that out?
<hunger> alexamici: The files end up in .../tmp/usr/lib/pytho-2.4/site-packages/*, so I think it can stay.
<alexamici> hunger: if the modules go there i think it's fine to leave it.
<hunger> Hey! The whole mess builds now! lintian does not like it too much, but I do get debs and they even seem to have some contents;-)
* hunger is happy: His first set of debs.
<Tonio_> siretart: kdelibs4-dev resolved, I'm uploading the dapper tellico package
<Mez> Tonio_, you mean the libopenssl thing?
<Tonio_> yep
<Tonio_> Mez: it is apparently resolved ;)
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> was done a couple of days ago
<Tonio_> Mez: 25 packages waiting for me....... hard day in perspective ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o zakame]  by ChanServ
<zakame> hello all
<zakame> hi all
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o siretart]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o siretart]  by siretart
<siretart> just a test
<siretart> morning everybody!
<jsgotangco> moin siretart
<zakame> hi siretart! :)
<SloMoSnail> hi everybody :)
<zakame> hi slomo
<siretart> hey *
<siretart> getting up is quite hard sometimes :/
<zakame> hehe especially after a party :))
<jsgotangco> party?
<zakame> wb Seveas
<Seveas> ty
* unormal is away: Til 9.00
* unormal is away: Until 9 o'clock
<tseng> unormal: please turn off public away for this channel. thanks.
<Seveas> unormal, please turn that off in here
<Seveas> lol :)
<zakame> hihi
<unormal> tseng and Seveas: I don't know how but will leave anyway. Sorry for the inconvenience.
<Kyral> Mornin'
<bmonty_laptop> good morning everyone
<Kyral> morning guys
<HiddenWolf> Guys, can I close 3956 as total crack?
<bmonty_laptop> HiddenWolf: sounds like he needs to install Xen
<HiddenWolf> My piont exactly
<HiddenWolf> wontfix/notforus
<bmonty_laptop> I think it is a valid feature request, but acpi is definately the wrong package
<HiddenWolf> it's not going to happen for dapper.
* Lathiat looks
<HiddenWolf> it /might/ work for dapper+1 if xen hits 1.0
<HiddenWolf> even then, OSX and other linux/windows/bsds would need to support this in order to be remotely useful.
<Lathiat> actually
<Lathiat> its not such a bad feature request
<bmonty_laptop> HiddenWolf: yeah
<Lathiat> you can make grub boot into a specific OS on next boot
<Lathiat> ditto lilo
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> i see it is a bit more than that tho
<Lathiat> its half-rack ;)
<Lathiat> crack
<bmonty_laptop> can launchpad forward bugs to Microsoft?
<tseng> uh
<highvoltage> bmonty_laptop: if only. then we could do some large scale DoS attacks using lp.
* highvoltage didn't just say that
<HiddenWolf> I've changed it to grub, but should probably piont seb128 to it too.
<bmonty_laptop> i sent an email to 3922@bugs.launchpad.net, but it doesn't show up in the bug....is that supposed to work?
<Kyral> yo
<slomo_> hi Kyral
<Kyral> sup
* Kyral goes to make a Debian Experimental PBuilder :P
<Kyral> hoy Mez!
<Mez> hi
<hub> hi
<bmonty_laptop> hi hub
<magnon> hub!
<hub> hey
<hub> it is sunday
<magnon> yes
<magnon> indeed
<magnon> hub: any group photos yet?
<hub> magnon: haven't downloaded the pictures yet
<hub> I started doing the dishes from Friday
<magnon> oh
<Kyral> hey all
<bmonty_laptop> hi Kyral
<Kyral> damnit the Forums are down
<slomo_> oh... what happens when i upload a lesser version than the one in the archvies? ;)
<Kyral> the older one rules?
* Kyral wonders how long until XChat 2.6.0 enters Sid or Dapper
<Kyral> I have half a mind to package it myself
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: what is new in XChat 2.6.0?
<Kyral> Uhh
* Kyral goes to grab the Changelog
<bmonty_laptop> nevermind, I'll check their website
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> I mean it must be a lot since they jumped version numbers
<Kyral> http://www.xchat.org/changelog.txt
<slomo_> ah... when uploading a older version it gets REJECTED... fine :)
<bmonty_laptop> hmm...their website seems to be down :(
<Kyral> You sure?
<Kyral> click on the link
<bmonty_laptop> yup, not loading
<Kyral> Hmm, loads fine for me
<Kyral> Should I go ahead and make a debpack?
<bmonty_laptop> sure
<bmonty_laptop> I'll help if you want
<Kyral> sure
<Kyral> Its written in....
<Kyral> Actually this looks easy
<Kyral> it uses AutoConf!!
<Kyral> I love it when people make my life easy :D
<bmonty_laptop> looks like lots of nice changes
<Kyral> yah
<bmonty_laptop> I'd start from the existing package
<Kyral> will it be Arch All or Arch Any though
<Kyral> uhh, I dunno how to patch ;P
<bmonty_laptop> get the original source tarball, extract it, and then copy the debian directory from the existing package
<Kyral> or the sourceball from the repos
<bmonty_laptop> my method is to make a new directory, apt-get source xchat, then put the new version source tarball there and extract it
<bmonty_laptop> actually, xchat is main, so it probably isn't worth messing with
<Kyral> meh....
<Kyral> Curse my lack upload privs
<Kyral> I don't care I'll make it anyway so I can put off homework!
<bmonty_laptop> I might put it in a local archive for now, and then let it upgrade when dapper gets the new version
<Kyral> do I have to alter control then...
<Kyral> I copyied the Debian dir from the 2.4.4 ball
<Kyral> and updated the Changelog
<bmonty_laptop> I'd try building that and see if it works
<Kyral> should be good to go then
<bmonty_laptop> there are a bunch of patches that will probably fail to apply
<Kyral> Isn't our job to fix things like this? ;P
<bmonty_laptop> for universe packages through
<bmonty_laptop> s/through/though
<Kyral> I don't think the main boys will mind us making life easier for them ;P
<Kyral> PBuild in progress in the Dapper PBuilder
<Kyral> Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n] 
<highvoltage> what does PBuild do?
<Kyral> Clean build environment
<bmonty_laptop> highvoltage: pbuilder builds packages in a clean chroot environment
<highvoltage> ah.
<Kyral> bmonty_laptop, it looks like its trying to apply a patch that is already fixed
<bmonty_laptop> basically a base system, plus the build depends for the package you are working on
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: yeah, probably need to remove most of the patches in the patch dir
<Kyral> Should I hit n?
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: why not?
<Kyral> and the build failed ;P
<Kyral> So nuke all the patches?
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: I don't know...some might still be required
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> like the default to freenode
<Kyral> I'll look at the buildlog and see the trouble
<lfittl> Kyral: Keep only the following patches and it should work: serverlist, terminal, browser, url-pattern, add_chillfactory, ubuntu, lpi, casecomp
<Kyral> fix_flashing was the trouble ;P
<Kyral> what about default to freenode, autoconf, translations?
<lfittl> you need to modify them to work
<lfittl> i am currently trying to package this too ;)
<Kyral> let us join forces
<lfittl> sure :)
<lfittl> any idea what the autoconf patch actually does?
<Kyral> Build in progress
<Kyral> nope, sounds like it applies a custom config
<Kyral> DHolbach was the last to touch the package so maybe he knows
<lfittl> maybe it adds liblaunchpad-integration somewhere to the linking process
<Kyral> maybe
<Kyral> freenode default is self-explainitory
<Kyral> and I have no clue why its failing, you'd think it would work
<lfittl> where exactly is it failing?
<Kyral> # Applying patch 36_default_to_freenode.patch
<Kyral> patching file src/common/servlist.c
<Kyral> Hunk #1 FAILED at 842.
<Kyral> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file src/common/servlist.c.rej
<lfittl> i think thats because the location of this patch seems to have moved
<Kyral> like where in the code structure?
<lfittl> dont know..
<highvoltage> how about making irc.ubuntu.com a cname for the freenode server, and make that the default server for ubuntu with #ubuntu-chatters as a default channel?
<highvoltage> sorry, i'm just butting in on the tail-end here. ignore me :)
<tseng> uh
<lfittl> Kyral: lets skip the freenode patch and add it later
<Kyral> All the patch does is remove the ChatJunkies network as the default and makes Freenode default
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> Odd that patch was originally applied to XChat 2.0.8....
<Kyral> Pbuilding again
<tsume> would it be possible to include http://www.cacert.org's CA with ca-certificates?
<lfittl> somewhere in the configure file the -llaunchpad-integration is missing, because my pbuild keeps failing with linking errors
<Kyral> You mean in like control?
<Kyral> hold on lemme build it to see
<tsume> I can install the cert via website, but it would be nice if this were included
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: file a bug in lanuchpad on ca-certificates
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: hmm. alright
<bmonty_laptop> s/lanuchpad/launchpad
<Kyral> I think thats what that translation patch does
* tsume is tired of patheic verisign. security should be free :)
<Kyral> handles Launchpad
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: agreed!
<lfittl> ok then lets try to integrate it again
<Kyral> gotcha
<Kyral> hey do you get this
<Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file po/xchat.pot
<Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file config.guess
<Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file config.sub
<tsume> I guess everyone could create their own CA :) instead of self signing and getting a message all the time, but then the CA list would get HUGE :)
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: I use my own CA for my servers...people who want to access my services can download my CA cert
<lfittl> Kyral: no i did not saw this, what does it mean?
<Kyral> when you do a dpkg-buildpackage
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: true, I've done that.. but it feels so nice if there is a central station for a CA :)
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: do you know if firefox/mozilla support multiple CNs?
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: its the only way to use vhost SSL
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: not sure, I think as long as it can verify the CA it is happy
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: without giving an error? ;)
<lfittl> Kyral: still searching these errors
<lfittl> s/error/warning
<bmonty_laptop> slomo_: can you please take a look at #3242, and upload if it looks ok (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lbreakout2/+bug/3242)
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: yeah, if it knows about the CA, and you trust the CA it doesn't give an error afaik
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: well I meed a invalid error
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: since I know moz/ff didn't support multiple CNs in the past in one certificate
<Kyral> I started with a clean source tree
<lfittl> me too, which patches have you removed?
<slomo_> bmonty_laptop: sure
<bmonty_laptop> tsume: why not use one cert for each vhost?
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: I mean for all vhosts on one IP address
<Mithrandir> tsume: sure it does, just use subjectAltName
<tsume> bmonty_laptop: there is a spec to actually let the client hint the host address, but no browser implements it yet :(
<tsume> before the cert is downloaded and sent
<lfittl> what are fuzzy translations? ("1200 translated messages, 2 fuzzy translations.")
<Kyral> Questionable ones?
<lfittl> k
<Kyral> Maybe we actually should let Main handle
<Kyral> this
<lfittl> good idea, seems to be a lot of work, especially if we dont know what each patch does
<lfittl> anything else we could package?
<slomo_> lfittl: sure... loads of stuff... look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<Kyral> Can I say that once and for all we will NOT package Azureus?
<slomo_> no
<tsume> Kyral: heh
<Kyral> Then why haven't we yet?
<slomo_> because it needs a complete jre :P
<tsume> Kyral: because jva sucks
<slomo_> it doesn't run with classpath
<tsume> Krbuild it yourself
<Kyral> It would allow me to stop dealing with "How do I install Azureus" questions on the Forums
<slomo_> when this gets fixed there will be a package
<tsume> Kyral: then find a way to run Azureus with gcj
<slomo_> Kyral: iirc there are azureus packages somewhere
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> in Debian
<slomo_> Kyral: azureus _is_ in debian?
<slomo_> tsume: it doesn't run with gcj/gij because of missing classes in classpath
<Kyral> According to the entry in Universe Canditades
<pietrus> slomo_: perhaps in contrib?
<tsume> Kyral: its proprietary to Sun java, its not Free
<Kyral> Calling up the Debian database
<lfittl> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/azureus
<slomo_> oh
<Kyral> tsume, I know this ;P
<slomo_> it's really in unstable
<slomo_> but it's a really old version
<slomo_> and many open bugs
<pietrus> and in contrib
<Kyral> The contrib part matters why?
<slomo_> oh, it is a new version...
<slomo_> then let's sync it if it works
<slomo_> i'll take care of it
<Kyral> THANK GOD!!
<tsume> slomo_: what VM will be using it to run? :P
<Kyral> I answer like 10 Azureus questions a DAY on the Forums
<slomo_> tsume: no idea... i'll take a look at it ;) i hope it will run with gij...
<Kyral> I;m gonna look at Dopi
<tsume> slomo_: I wonder if kaffee will be able to run it
<slomo_> Kyral: spayne wanted to do it... and be sure you get the new version with bundled entagged-sharp
<tsume> slomo_: kaffe can run eclipse..
<Kyral> Oh spayne is working on it?
<Kyral> Okay
<slomo_> tsume: kaffee is only a jvm iirc... the problem lies with the classlib they all use
<Kyral> nm then
<Kyral> He should mark it then
<slomo_> Kyral: but i don't know where spayne is... he wasn't here the last week afaik
<tsume> slomo_: oh, heh. Never really used kaffe much. The classlib it uses is not its own?
<Kyral> Ill take this one
<Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1101
<slomo_> tsume: it's classpath afaik
<tsume> slomo_: :/
<tsume> slomo_: I didn't realize the package was named classpath :)
<slomo_> tsume: but as i don't like java, don't know much about it, etc... better look at it yourself ;)
<slomo_> Kyral: perfect :)
<lfittl> Any good reasons why Planeshift isnt packaged?
<slomo_> Kyral: please consinder reading the CLI policy
<Kyral> CLI?
<slomo_> Kyral: and for a sample package... look at cowbell ;)
<slomo_> Kyral: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<Kyral> what does CLI mean (aside from Command Line Interface)
<slomo_> Kyral: Common Language Infrastructure
<tsume> bleh.. mono
<Kyral> and why do I need to read this :P
<slomo_> Kyral: because you won't get your package approved when you don't comply to that policy ;)
<slomo_> tsume: you don't like languages running in a virtual machine, do you? ;)
* tsume wonders which programming language the debian guy picked this week
<tsume> slomo_: squeak
<tsume> slomo_: ruby
<tsume> slomo_: those are the only two vmed based languages I'll accept :)
<tsume> C, C++ are just peachy with me
<Kyral> Okay that is making no sense
<tsume> Kyral: doesnt need to, its futuristic :)
<slomo_> tsume: what about python? ;)
<Kyral> just tell me what I have to do different than normal ;P
<tsume> slomo_: python is so last 5 years ago :)
<slomo_> Kyral: look at the policy... or take my cowbell package as a base and adjust it ;)
<slomo_> tsume: what don't you like about mono? ;)
<tsume> slomo_: Novell's overzealotized advertising about how great the project is. Which is fact there are several incomplete places in the C# implementation and libraries
<tsume> slomo_: besides the fact I'm seeing Novell "do it again" to another project really makes me in disgust
<bmonty_laptop> thanks slomo_
<slomo_> tsume: "do it again"? and it's a complete .net 1.1 implementation currently... only 2.0 isn't complete yet
<slomo_> bmonty_laptop: np :)
<slomo_> tsume: other than that... yes, novell is a bit verbose about it :P
<Kyral> slomo_, what shoiuld I look at in Cowbell?
<Kyral> make it a CDBS package?
<tsume> slomo_: grep the source for "NOT IMPLEMENTED". There are several parts incomplete. Mainly which part I was trying to use are any of the database classes. Db* are incomplete, SqlDb* are incomplete. XSP is _VERY_ noncompliant, and it doens't emulate the latest version either
<slomo_> Kyral: you can probably take the complete package and change some strings in some places to get a working package for gnome-rdp
<tsume> DbCommandBuilder is one of the MOST important database libraries. The fact it isn't complete is a kick in the face for anyone wanting to do serious work
<Kyral> You mean like Rules/Control/Watch?
<tsume> its like a kick in the face when you go.. "oh neat, I can write this in C# on linux" then later just say "oh fuck, novell is doing it again"
<tsume> slomo_: the DbCommand Builder is just a shell. Its been sitting like that for almost a whole year
<slomo_> Kyral: yes... control and rules
<tsume> slomo_: the the answer was RubyOnRails
<Kyral> We should really write a DevScript for Mono...
<tseng> a what?
<tseng> please explain your idea.
<slomo_> Kyral: devscript?
<tsume> slomo_: plus! XSP hung up, even mod_mono. Its so noncompliant. No script out of even the asp.net books would run correctly. Microsoft had a right to block mono out of the conference. Mono/C# is a pipe dream.
<Kyral> like to let dh_make handle mono :D
<tseng> tsume: would you kindly take the FUD elsewhere please
<Kyral> chill dude
<tsume> tseng: its not fud, you want proof? I'll point you to each and every file in the SCM
<Kyral> Humanity Towards Others
<Kyral> remember dude
<tsume> tseng: hell, I'll even reinstall mono and video record how mod_mono and XSP acts(since they are one of the same code base)
<tseng> XSP is one part of a very large project
<tseng> you are taking issues in XSP as justification for ROFLCOPTER MONO IS TEH SUCK
<tseng> so please stop.
<tsume> tseng: erg, wrong
<Kyral> Please, #ubuntu-offtopic
<slomo_> Kyral: azureus won't get in... it _needs_ sun jdk
<tsume> tseng: even when I asked for help, they were nice in #mono on gimpIRC. but only could comment how it may be more completed in the future
<tsume> except kangaroo, he seem sto always be in a bad mood :)
<tsume> tseng: maybe I will just video record, make logs. then have a article slashdotted. Maybe this will get their attention to finish what they started.
<tseng> maybe you can take a step back and look at how big the project is and realize that xsp might not be top priority over fixing bugs and making the core implementation solid
<tseng> and winforms, gtk#
<tseng> i see no reason to be so agressively peeved over a free software project
<Mithrandir> tsume: or you could just provide patches.
<tseng> if it doesnt work how you want, your only option is to fix it
<tsume> tseng: okay, now. If we take this to reality and the business world, we would see GUI apps are not so popular and web implementations are.
<Mithrandir> bitching doesn't help at all.  It's just destructive.
<tsume> tseng: therefore its not very intelligent to work on the GUI side first, it would be better to work on the web side of things
<Mithrandir> that's why MS is making most of their money off the Office suite, right?
<Mithrandir> since teh web is obviously the future.
<tseng> novells customers obviously want winforms
<tseng> which is why they are dumping cash there
* Kyral screams loudly
<tseng> its certainly their perogative to invest as theyd like
<Kyral> Please, Please please please take this to another channel
<tseng> as for mono as an open source project
<Kyral> I do not like fights
* tsume gags Kyral 
<tseng> Kyral: no offense but im pretty sure i own this channel.
<Kyral> oh
* Kyral looks embarassed
<tsume> tseng: novell customers wnat winforms? poppycock :P
<tsume> tseng: I don't bevelieve they want winforms. I believe people like website based applications
<tseng> tsume: can you think of another reason its been the biggest feature on the roadmap for sometime?
<Kyral> I just do not like fighting, at all.....I'm sorry
<tseng> but you can discuss business strategy with them
<tseng> as far as we are considered if you find a deficiency in software we ship you can fix it
<tseng> none of this "poppycock" about slashdotting a flamewar over missing features
<tsume> tseng: then all hope is lost, people want web scripting and ease
<tseng> i am finished.
<tsume> tseng: fine
<Kyral> sorry tseng
<tseng> Kyral: ok so, what is your idea about "devscripts" again?
<tseng> im not sure I followed you
<ivoks> hi
<Kyral> make it so its easier to make a CLI Policy complient package
<ivoks> anyone ever created cpio archive? :)
<tseng> you want dh_make to just have a profile?
<tseng> im not sure there is a precedent for that
<Kyral> umm, I guess so
<tseng> besides the "cdbs" package
<tseng> which is pretty crap
<slomo_> Kyral: it isn't that hard to make it compliant
<tseng> dh_make --cdbs or something
<Kyral> I dunno. Its more like so people who just want to package something don't have to get into the details ;P
<tseng> yes its only a build-dep and a few lines
<Kyral> Yah slomo_ scared me when he showed me the Policy Manual
<tseng> hm if people cant be arsed to understand the policy there will be bigger problems down the line
<tseng> our cli-policy?
<Kyral> Debian Policy for Beginners
<tseng> it is only a few very short pages
<Kyral> the Debian CLI Policy
<Kyral> I dunno, maybe I'm slow today then
<tseng> yes.. i co-authored that
<tseng> :)
<tseng> if you look at that and an existing package
<Kyral> I'm really makin' an idiot of myself today eh? ;P
<tseng> it shouldnt take that long
<tseng> no, not really
<tseng> i felt like an idiot after i thought i had this packaging business all figured out
<tseng> and met mdz
<tseng> i had no idea what he was on about
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> It was funny to see him do the Badger dance at Ubuntu Love :D
<Kyral> Okay, unpacked and debianized as a CDBS so I can shamelessly ripoff slomo_'s cowbell package
<tseng> yes, thats a good one
<slomo_> tseng: except 2 bugs in cdbs, yes ;)
<slomo_> Kyral: but be carefull... some mono packages have a native and a non-native part... maybe you have to change it to arch any
<Kyral> Its already that way
<tseng> what package is this?
<Kyral> GNOME-RDP
<slomo_> Kyral: "that way"?
<Kyral> I mean the control file generated already says Arch Any ;P
<Kyral> I need CLI-Common...
<slomo_> Kyral: you can make it arch all... it's plain c#
<Kyral> mono stuff, GTK#, GConf#, Glade#, vte#, knock, tightvnc, ssh, and redesktop
<Kyral> Yanno I'm just gonna leave it and find out when Pbuilder complains ;P
<slomo_> Kyral: look at configure.in
<slomo_> Kyral: and please get the minimal version right ;)
<slomo_> Kyral: everything you need to know about build-depends is there
<Kyral> If I knew how to read it ;P
<slomo_> read it and try to understand it
<slomo_> it isn't that hard
<slomo_> but you need to package something else before... superstring-sharp
<slomo_> whatever that is
<Kyral> PKG_CHECK_MODULES?
<slomo_> for example
<slomo_> but you need to package superstring-sharp before
<Kyral> which is....
<slomo_> and there is no release for this yet
<slomo_> http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/
<slomo_> only in svn
<Kyral> where do you see superstring sharp required?
<slomo_> omg
<Kyral> I mean, am I blind?
<slomo_> superstring-sharp... tseng, please look at it... i can't believe it...
<Kyral> ??????
<slomo_> UNSTABLE_INSTALL_ASSEMBLIES="superstring-sharp"
<slomo_> INSTALLED_ASSEMBLIES="`$PKG_CONFIG --variable=Libraries $UNSTABLE_INSTALL_ASSEMBLIES`"
<Kyral> oh
<slomo_> tseng: that's the whole library: http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/src/SuperString.cs?rev=47283&view=auto
<Kyral> I told you I don't know how to read this thing!
<slomo_> tseng: wtf is this?
<Kyral> *snicker*
<slomo_> Kyral: but you were good with finding PKG_CHECK_MODULES :)
<Kyral> Yah, because I saw something that looked like Debian control code ;P
<Kyral> slomo_, I don't thing SuperString# will be hard ;P
<tseng> is this a joke?
<slomo_> Kyral: i don't know if we want this mess
<slomo_> tseng: no idea...
<tseng> its one function
<slomo_> yes... and that function is... hmm
<slomo_> useless?!
<tseng> yeah
<slomo_> i'll ask abock
<tseng> yeah
<Kyral> so GNOME-RDP is on hold
<slomo_> Kyral: try to compile without it... this can't be real
<Kyral> lol
<tseng> it could just call IndexOf on its own
<tseng> the function isnt much cleaner looking
<slomo_> Kyral: try to compile it without superstring-sharp... maybe it's just a joke...
<tseng> maybe he means to add more to the class
<Kyral> slomo_, yah
<slomo_> superstring isn't somewhere else in the sources...
<slomo_> hmm
<tseng> http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/?rev=47283#dirlist
<tseng> uh
<tseng> thats the only code in this whole module?
<slomo_> yes
<tseng> amazing.
<tseng> he autotooled 1 line of code
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Should I have this depend on Mono?
<Kyral> or just mono-mcs?
<slomo_> depend? build-depend?
<tseng> the policy tells you this :)
<Kyral> build-dep
<slomo_> Kyral: policy... it contains some parts for lazy people ;)
<Kyral> I assume that cli:Depends will take care of the Depends ;P
<tseng> yes, mostly
<tseng> not always
<slomo_> in this case it will
<slomo_> no it won't
<tseng> clilibs and shlibs together do not always get code that is p/invoked by c#
<slomo_> sqlite
<tseng> so you have to verify yourself
<slomo_> there is no p/invoking in this package ;)
<Kyral> Yah its telling me it needs Mono 1.1.7
<tseng> slomo_: if you do all the checking he wont learn anything :)
<Kyral> so I should make Mono-mcs be >= 1.1.7
<tseng> yep
<slomo_> tseng: good point... i'll shut up now ;)
<Kyral> so libsqlite goes into Depends...
<slomo_> maybe
<slomo_> you need to check which version it uses
<Kyral> doesn't say
<Kyral> needed_dlls="Mono.Data.SqliteClient Mono.Posix" <---Thats all I see referring to SQLite
<slomo_> tseng?
<slomo_> Kyral: Mono.Data.SqliteClient can be used with sqlite2 and 3
<Kyral> gotcha
<Kyral> libsqlite3-0!
<slomo_> how did you get this?
<Kyral> the package?
<Kyral> I did an apt-cache search for sqlite :D
<slomo_> ok, that's no indication that it's the right one ;)
<Kyral> when it talks about LibGnome I assume it wants libgnome-cli?
<slomo_> tseng: abock says this monoskel thingie was just a demo of how to do autotools stuff...
<slomo_> tseng: seems like the gnome-rdp guy copied some parts of it ;)
<slomo_> Kyral: no
<slomo_> Kyral: almost right ;)
<Kyral> libgnome-dev
<Kyral> ahh
<slomo_> no
<Kyral> libgnome2.0-cli
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> err
<slomo_> only look at what is in the PKG_CHECK_MODULES clals
<slomo_> calls
<Kyral> ah okay
<Kyral> and the one calling for GTK-Sharp is commented out
<Kyral> there are two calls for gconf-sharp
<Kyral> one says GTKSHARP the other GCONFSHARP
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> braindead configure
<slomo_> please beat upstream... they don't know how to use autotools ;)
<Kyral> so the libgconf2.0-cil will satisfy both?
<slomo_> no
<slomo_> seems to be a type
<slomo_> the first one should be libgtk2.0-cil probably
<Kyral> so I need libgtk2.0-cil
<slomo_> and libgconf2.0-cil
<slomo_> yes
<Kyral> I should fix this then? The typo
<slomo_> no
<slomo_> it doesn't really hurt hopefully
<slomo_> and it would need a bit harder patching
<Kyral> if it breaks, then fix it ;P
<slomo_> but please tell upstream about all of this
<tseng> slomo_: i dont know how to use autotools.. please dont beat me
<Kyral> how busted it is ;P
<slomo_> Kyral: yes
<slomo_> tseng: i'm not beating you ;) i thought you maybe know how one can get the sqlite version that is used...
<slomo_> anyway... it's sqlite2 by default but you can set it to 3 if you want
<tseng> hm the connection string has it
<tseng> yeah
<Kyral> so where should I put sqlite?
<tseng> depends
<tseng> libsqlite0
<Kyral> oh, PKG_CHECK_MODULES is calling for Mono
<Kyral> should be alright...
<slomo_> then try it in pbuilder
<Kyral> Can I blantely ripoff your rules file for cowbell? :P
<tseng> yes
<tseng> but you should understand what it does
<Kyral> the shabang defines where make is
<Kyral> the second two lines include the CDBS tools for Debhelper and Autotools
<Kyral> next one just exports a directory to be CURDIR
<Kyral> ack I need to change one line
<tseng> that part you should understand
<tseng> the export
<Kyral> Yah I know the thing about CURDIR
<slomo_> and what is MONO_SHARED_DIR?
<Kyral> no clue
<tseng> :)
<slomo_> then read the policy ;)
<Kyral> and my rules has been generated with some extras
<Kyral> DEB_TAR-SRCDIR, DEB_AUTO_CLEANUP_RCS
<Kyral> and its including the tarball.mk and simple-patchsys,mk
<slomo_> hm?
<tseng> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.3
<tseng> please read
<Kyral> DEB_TAR_SRCDIR                  := gnome-rdp-0.1.3
<Kyral> DEB_AUTO_CLEANUP_RCS            := yes
<slomo_> why are you doing this?
<Kyral> I didn't
<Kyral> when I dh_make I selected CDBS it spat it out
<slomo_> hm
<slomo_> interesting
<Kyral> Ahh I get about MONO_SHARED_DIR now
<tseng> great
<tseng> you see now we wrote a policy doc for a reason :)
<Kyral> Now what are those two things at the header now?
<tseng> which
* Kyral points to his paste about DEB_TAR_SRCDIR
<tseng> oh those are probably not needed
<Kyral> so nuke the includes for them as well?
<slomo_> Kyral: it's for unpacking the tarball and clean up svn/cvs/etc leftover stuff...
<tseng> if you include gnome.mk
<Kyral> which I'm not, should I?
<tseng> most everything is as it should be
<slomo_> Kyral: it's only needed when you put the tarball in your sourcedirectory and want it to be unpacked lataer
<tseng> yes
<Kyral> just need the include for it right?
<Kyral> I'll leave the source things in there, I don't really understand what htey do
<Kyral> whats that binary-fixup line about?
<slomo_> binary-fixup?
<Kyral> yah in your cowbell rules
<tseng> i see no such thing
<Kyral> binary-fixup/cowbell::
<Kyral> 	dh_clideps
<tseng> common-binary-predeb-indep::
<tseng>     dh_clideps
<tseng> this is the latest cowbell
<Kyral> Ah, where is that...I'm looking at the one in REVU
<slomo_> Kyral: what version are you looking at?
<tseng> and is more correct
<tseng> that must be ancient
<tseng> we've beaten slomo into shape since then
<tseng> now he is smarter than me.
<slomo_> Kyral: that was _ages_ ago =)
<slomo_> tseng: you don't upload broken tarballs ;) so... no i'm not :P
<Kyral> Is there a way I can view the latest cowbell online?
<tseng> packages.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> I'm at the sourcepackage ;P
<tseng> perfect
<Kyral> can I view the rules file?
<tseng> yes, its in the diff.gz
<tseng> you have to read it as a patch
<Kyral> so I also need DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES
<Kyral> but I don't need autotools...
<slomo_> when you need it... yes
<Kyral> do I need autotools for C#?
<tseng> you can use it
<slomo_> in which context?
<Kyral> the cdbs mk
<tseng> oh you mean the cdbs class
<tseng> gnome includes it
<Kyral> yea
<tseng> so no
<Kyral> and I don't need that install/cowbell rule b/c I don't have a manpage as of yet (Just want this thing to build, then I can futz around :D)
<tseng> sure
<slomo_> Kyral: but look at the policy for permissions... that's missing in ccowbell currently :o
<tseng> mm that nasty find
<Kyral> eh?
<tseng> should *that* be a helper scripts?
<tseng> -s
<tseng> dh_fixcliperms
<slomo_> tseng: yes... let's ask meebey... good idea :)
<tseng> ok.
<Kyral> Okay I need to go skating, soo
<Kyral> I'll finish this later
<Kyral> thanks for your help guys :D
<lfittl> Is it ok if I remove all packages from "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates" that are already in breezy?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> or in dapper
<lfittl> k
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-12
<lfittl> why were the ggz gaming zone packages removed in dapper?
<bmonty> if a package is registering a mime type in its desktop file, do we have to run update-desktop-database in the postinst, or is this handled automatically??
<bmonty> anyone know if there is a reason to have to versions of gnat in main and universe?
<LaserJock> bmonty: 2 versions?
<bmonty> yeah, main has gnat-4.0 and universe has gnat-3.15p1
<LaserJock> bmonty: no idea, but that seems weird
<bmonty> it makes for some weird dependecy issues (#3326)
<crimsun> bmonty: ask elmo to remove gnat-3.15p1 from universe
<bmonty> crimsun: I thought about that, but I'm concerned that there might be a reason to have the old version around.
<LaserJock> are we going to have a better system for pacakge removal? Or is the current one (ask elmo) OK?
<crimsun> it's better to get a better-formed opinion in -devel before asking elmo
<crimsun> as long as we don't equate "remove from archive" with "morgue" (cf. kamion's response)
<LaserJock> that is what I am confused about
<crimsun> there's no reason to be confused
<crimsun> don't refer to the morgue at all
<crimsun> just ask for a package to be removed from the archive
<crimsun> semantically that's what you want anyway
<bmonty> why the sensitivity for the word morgue?
<LaserJock> OK, that makes sense
<crimsun> bmonty: the "morgue" was at one time a place where removed packages were stored in case they were mistakenly removed
<crimsun> so we don't want to move packages to the morgue; we want to remove them from the archive
<crimsun> just pretend as if you've never heard of morgue
<bmonty> crimsun: yeah, I've always refered to getting rid of a package as morguing it
<bmonty> ah..got it
<hub> my GPG KeyID issue is starting to make some noise in the appropriate places
<hub> I reported the bug to GPG and they forwarded it to SKS-devel
<bmonty> check out this changelog: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/u/uim/uim_0.4.7-2/changelog
<bmonty> version 1:0.4.7-2 and 1:0.4.6beta2-1
<bmonty> do you think they are the same security bug? this also applies to Malone #3328
<crimsun> bmonty: will look in a bit. Testing transcode fix atm.
<bmonty> crimsun: thanks
<zakame> morning all
<bmonty> hi zakame
<zakame> hi bmonty rbelem
<crimsun> bmonty: same bug
<bmonty> crimsun: so do you think the fix is already in uim?
<crimsun> bmonty: it's already in Debian Sid's uim, yes
<bmonty> the only thing that made me look twice was the fact that the bug report the lastest changelog references was issued after the earlier version of uim
<crimsun> bmonty: 3328's fixable. Do you want to generate a debdiff and send it to universe-security, or shall I?
<bmonty> crimsun: I was working on the debdiff for breezy and dapper
<bmonty> I just wanted to make sure that I was reading the changelogs correctly
<crimsun> bmonty: ok
<crimsun> yep, you read them correctly
<minghua> we have security support for universe? cool
<crimsun> minghua: not officially
<bmonty> I think the patch still goes to security-review, right?
<crimsun> bmonty: yes
<minghua> bmonty: what part of the changelog is not clear?  I am interested in this security issue as well
<minghua> bmonty: my understanding is that only mlterm-im-uim is affected in ubuntu
<bmonty> minghua: look at the current debian version and then scroll down in the changelog to 1:0.4.6beta2-1
<bmonty> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/u/uim/uim_0.4.7-2/changelog
<crimsun> bmonty: hmm, I thought you meant between 0.4.7-2 and what Ubuntu has. Harumph. No, those are two different issues with two different CANs.
<crimsun> bmonty: however, both issues are resolved in 0.4.7-2
<bmonty> crimsun: yes, they look the same in the changelog and the text for the debian bug report is kinda confusing
<crimsun> CAN-2005-05-03 is fixed in Ubuntu's Breezy
<bmonty> I decided that they were different, but I wanted a second set of eyes :)
<minghua> bmonty: I believe they are different, although I didn't look at the code
<minghua> I remember reading both security issue announcements from upstream, they should know what they are talking about
<minghua> crimsun, bmonty: the original announcement for the bug fixed by 0.4.6beta2-1 in http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/uim/2005-February/001000.html
<minghua> a diff was attached
<bmonty> minghua: thanks, that is definately a different issue
<crimsun> yep, that's where I Xreferenced
<minghua> oops, that's not a diff for the source, but for RPM spec :-S
<minghua> but I believe they are separate issues (although may be related)
<bmonty> looks like I'll make two fixes, one for breezy, and the new version with the ubuntu changes for dapper
<minghua> we really should push the change in 1:0.4.7-1ubuntu1 back to debian
<minghua> either it's a bug in Debian's uim package, or we are missing some feature compared with debian's version
<bmonty> minghua: there is no FTBFS bug against the debian package and they still have the build-dep ivoks removed
<minghua> bmonty: there won't be any FTBFS for debian - debian has the pm-dev package
<minghua> bmonty: it's probably an optional feature
<bmonty> minghua: i know
<minghua> and if no pm-dev is present, the configure will just silently drop the featuer
<minghua> in that case it's still a bug in debian's package
<minghua> it should enable that feature explicitly
<minghua> I'm just saying we should ask the debian maintanier
<bmonty> well if they will take the change it makes our fix a simple sync
<minghua> I'll do it next week if no one beats me
<bmonty> i'll ask ivoks when i see him
<chillywilly> hmmm, you guys have an ancient version of lilypond :(
<LaserJock> chillywilly: I assume that will get fixed in the Debian sid sync
<bmonty> minghua: pm-dev = proxy manager protocol?
<minghua> bmonty: yes, according to the debian package description
<minghua> bmonty: it looks useless to me
<minghua> but I didn't dig further
<bmonty> i've been looking through the source from the debian package, and I can't find a reference to it
<chillywilly> LaserJock: I suppose I can just build the package from sid for now :)
<minghua> chillywilly: maybe not.  See http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/lilypond/2.6.3-9/
<minghua> chillywilly: and see if you can find the problem and help
<chillywilly> minghua: that's all greek to me
<chillywilly> looks like bad depends
<LaserJock> chillywilly: I think this is the prob:
<LaserJock> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
<LaserJock> mftrace(inst 1.1.12-1ubuntu2 ! >= wanted 1.1.17-1)
<LaserJock> Source-dependencies not satisfied; skipping lilypond
<bmonty> minghua: I emailed the debian uim maintainer about removing that build dep...you want to know what he says?
<minghua> someone need to merge mftrace then, it seems :-)
<minghua> bmonty: sure, cc me please, thanks
<bmonty> minghua: email?
<minghua> oops... minghua@rice.edu, sorry :-P
<bmonty> :)
<LaserJock> ok, I am confused about merging. Is everything being merge manually right now or is automatic merging taking place?
<chillywilly> all I wanted to do was work up some lead sheets for some tunes but I guess that won't happen tonight :(
<chillywilly> unless I just want to do plain old boring ASCII ;)
<LaserJock> chillywilly: aren't there other music typesetting progs out there
<bmonty> according to this month's LinuxJournal, lilypond is the best there is
<chillywilly> lilypond is the shiznit
<LaserJock> well, "available" might be better than "best" at this point ;-)
* chillywilly checks out the LJ article
<bmonty> LaserJock: heh
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<bmonty> night everyone
<Kyral> Okay....yah
<Kyral> threw out my back
<LaserJock> Kyral: I'm going to wait to email the FlowDesigner devs until your package has been reviewed. We don't want to get them excited until we really have something. I have already sent our intentions to their -devel mailing list
<LaserJock> I think that should be good for now
<Kyral> kk
<Kyral> g'night
<LaserJock> cya
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> afternoon
<schweeb> zakame: heh, there's probably only going ot be a few people ever up at this hour
<schweeb> it's late for the US, ad it's early for europe
<bhuvan> and noon in india -:)
<zakame> schweeb: hihi, I reckon most are going back home, if not just arriving home already, from ubz :)
<schweeb> bhuvan: not sure how big of an Indian following we have, but I'm sure there's not enough who want to be MOTU to keep this channel busy :P
<bhuvan> schweeb, true
<zakame> it will probably be very busy in a couple of days or so... :/
<crimsun> we don't have very long to finish these merges
<zakame> indeed
<schweeb> argh
<schweeb> anyone ever dealt with IBM or Lenovo US support?
<schweeb> need to replace my keyboard, and I can't find my warranty info... and the frigging support hotline keeps disconnecting me
<zakame> wb pef
<siretart> greetings from magnon and me from airport frankurt!
<zakame> siretart: glad you're there! :)
<Tonio_> morning
<magnon> howdy
<siretart> hi from nbg
<linux_Coder> I want to participate in Ubuntu development
<linux_Coder> I am information security engineer and a coder
<linux_Coder> I only want to contribute in Ubuntu coding
<lucas> which parts ?
<linux_Coder> what do u mean ?
<lucas> most software in ubuntu just comes from upstream
<linux_Coder> ok
<lucas> "ubuntu coding" often means "upstream software coding"
<lucas> for example, the desktop is gnome. see http://www.gnome.org/
<linux_Coder> what's the work to do, if i want to contribute for ubuntu coding ?
<lucas> it depends on what you mean by "ubuntu coding"
<lucas> which part of ubuntu are you interested in coding ?
<linux_Coder> actually, I am new to ubuntu
<linux_Coder> infact, I have ordered for Ubuntu thru shipit
<linux_Coder> but I am into linux for 3 years
<linux_Coder> and coding in C & C++ for more than 5 years
<linux_Coder> intrested in System side programming ..
<lucas> get familiar with the ubuntu wiki, the bugzilla, etc
<linux_Coder> and love Open Source stuffs.. would like to join Ubuntu community.
<lucas> the easiest way to do that is just to find an interesting bug, fix it, and provide a patch
<linux_Coder> hmm..ok
<linux_Coder> lucas: thank you
<lucas> np
<linux_Coder> lucas: you are really helpful
<linux_Coder> lucas: I have one more query :)
<linux_Coder> I want to search only for bugs related to codes.. not others ..
<lucas> you should search for bugs in software you are interested in hacking
<lucas> it's easier
<linux_Coder> ok
<linux_Coder> lucas: thank u
<linux_Coder> bye all
<cyberix> Can I vote somewhere for GNUnet 0.7 getting dappered? :-)
<slomo> maybe... is it already in debian? ;)
<cyberix> Yes
<slomo> then it's no problem... i'll take care of it
<cyberix> slomo: Great.
<cyberix> slomo: I must warn you, that it is very different from 0.6-series
<slomo> np... debian already has a 0.7 package so the 0.6->0.7 conversion is not my problem anymore
<cyberix> Ok
<cyberix> slomo: Are you going to get it to launchpad too, or will I have to ask somewhere else for that?
<cyberix> slomo: I'd like to work on Finnish translation once it is in launchpad.
<slomo> no... just create the package/product yourself there
<slomo> and gnunet-gtk will be updated too
<zakame> hello all
<cyberix> slomo: Ok.
<slomo> cyberix: hum, isn't that easy... needs some other new depends... but don't worry, it'll be done
<slomo> lamont: ping?
<lamont> si?
<slomo> lamont: can you remove banshee (for amd64) and galago-sharp (for all) from dep-wait? banshee was removed too early last time it seems... new version wasn't in the archives yet :/
* lamont looks for his lart-bat
<lamont> and goes to remove dep-waits in the meanwhile
<slomo> lamont: thanks... and sorry for the inconveniences
<hub> so the new libgdiplus fix my bug
<slomo> hub: which bug?
<hub> slomo: autopano-sift that crashed in libgdiplus
<hub> slomo: I don't know why, but the 1.1.9 version in dapper works
<hub> slomo: I'll depend on it
<hub> slomo: it crash with 1.1.7, and used to work
<hub> slomo: one more package for multiverse
<hub> because it is "patent encumbered"
<slomo> hub: what does it do?
<slomo> hub: and libgdiplus 1.1.9 changed many many many bugs actually ;)
<slomo> anyway... need to leave now ;) see you later
<zakame> hmmm, i might be asking a stupid question, but if a source file does not have any explicit license statement, can upstream assume it to be in the public domain?
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> if it doesn't state a license then normal copyright laws apply
<zakame> I see...
<hub> Amaranth: public domain does not exist in some countries where copyright is implicit
<zakame> libmemcache's src/crc32_table.h included this statement:
<zakame>  * Garrett <srg@quick.com> and was cleaned from the PostgreSQL source
<zakame>  * tree via the files contrib/ltree/crc32.[ch] .  No license was
<zakame>  * included, therefore it is assumed that this code is public
<zakame>  * domain.  Attribution still noted. */
<zakame> what's everyone's take on this?
<Amaranth> hub: Not quite sure what you mean. Are you agreeing with me?
<hub> Amaranth: in France copyright is implicit for example
<hub> Amaranth: that means the lack of statement is really restricitive
<Amaranth> hub: I thought some UN agreement made it implicit basically everywhere
<hub> yep, but in they US
<hub> s/they/the/
<Amaranth> ?
<hub> remember the US extend copyright duration on a regular basis, due to lobbying by Disney
<Amaranth> note to self: never use any code not written by Amaranth without a lawyer
<hub> because of the Mickey franchise that brings Million every year
<hub> Amaranth: a license file like GPL is explicit copyright statement
<Amaranth> hub: sonny bono copyright extension act of 1998
<hub> read "Free Culture" about that
<Amaranth> ok, back to the original point...
<hub> yep
<zakame> yeah...
<Amaranth> In most countries worldwide copyright is implicit so if nothing else is stated regular copyright laws apply, correct?
<Amaranth> iow, you can't assume public domain
<zakame> ok... if this is so, then it's not safe to package libmemcache?
<zakame> wb ogra
<zakame> wb magnon
<magnon> thanks
<hub> hey magnon, ogra
<magnon> finally home
<mitsuhiko> ogra: ping
<ogra> mitsuhiko, pong
<bradb> dudes
<bradb> Searching on source package name should be working now. Try it out and tell me what you think.
<ogra> bradb, wassup ?
<ogra> cool
<ogra> !
<seb128> hi
<seb128> who is doing this wiki pages about absolute icon paths for desktop files?
<ogra> hey seb128
<ogra> seb128, Burgundavia did that once, i'm not sure if soemone actively maintains it... i know bddebian worked on the .desktop files
<seb128> k, because that's not the way to go
<ogra> wipe it ?
<seb128> and somebody is flooding malone with bugs/patches
<seb128> "flooding"
<ogra> odd
<seb128> why?
<ogra> are the patches right ?
<ogra> you sounded like they were wrong
<seb128> yeah
<ogra> ah, ok, -odd then :)
<seb128> but that's like all the desktop files have 3-4 issues according to the validator
<seb128> and the patches fix one
<ogra> where is dholbach ?
<seb128> in his room
<ogra> erm.... he should have checked out before 12 ...
<seb128> 12 is the hour to check out here?
<ogra> seems like
<seb128> I don't really care, pitti stays so we keep the room
<seb128> I'll check you later
<ogra> at least thats what i've been told
<seb128> s/you/out/
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but mvo and dholbach dont
<seb128> (12:36:39) dholbach: we need to check out
<seb128> (12:36:44) dholbach: we're checkiong out atm
<ogra> ah
<magnon> ogra: upload pictures!
<ogra> magnon, from home....
<magnon> ok:p
<hunger> only now that I am trying to build my own little set of debs I can fully appreciate what you guys have been doing for me for the last couple of years! THANKS!
<hunger> Does it get easier with time and practice?
<magnon> definately
<siretart> hey magnon!
<siretart> magnon: how was your flight to norway?
<magnon> awful
<magnon> they wanted money for water, food and coffee
<siretart> wtf?!
<siretart> these bastards!
<magnon> yes
<magnon> SAS sucks
<magnon> 3 for a coffee
<magnon> same for half liter of water
<hunger> I keep running into "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}". Any idea how to fix those?
<at1as> Does anyone know anything about the Transcode and xvid packages for breezy?
<at1as> Does anyone know anything about the Transcode and xvid packages for breezy?
<at1as> I keep getting errors when trying to import xvid-encoded video.
<pef> bye !
<slomo> Kyral: how's your package? ;)
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<LaserJock> slomo: which package are you talking about?
<slomo> LaserJock: gnome-rdp or how it was called ;)
<LaserJock> slomo: oh, don't know about that one. He has got one in REVU that I am pretty excited about
<slomo> which one?
<LaserJock> FlowDesigner
<LaserJock> It is a part of the MOUTUScience team I put together. The authors were pretty excited at the possibility of get .debs made for it
<slomo> ah that one :) i'll take a look at it tomorrow in my free period
<LaserJock> slomo: that would be great. the one thing that I think needs to be included is a .desktop file
<slomo> make one ;)
<LaserJock> I think he will. I guess he wanted feedback on the main part of the package first
<LaserJock> Is there a difference between using DESTDIR and PREFIX in a Makefile?
<magnon> siretart: ping
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<herve> hello
<crimsun> hi
<siretart> magnon: pong
* Kyral stabs GNOME-RDP
<slomo> Kyral: hehe
<Kyral> I can't understand this
<Kyral> its looking for some DLL
<Kyral> but I did a lookup for it, and its already being pulled in by a depend
<slomo> which?
<slomo> and how?
<slomo> paste the buildlog somewhere ;)
<slomo> (not here!)
<Kyral> I was about to do that ;P
<Kyral> lemme make a new one
<Kyral> I was futzing with it ALOT
<magnon> siretart: never mind, just gajim stuff. but it spammed me with 136 windows when I added the msn transport :p
<siretart> magnon: yeah ;)
<slomo> magnon: hehe, i had the same problem when adding the icq transport ;)
<siretart> same here
<magnon> I went back to gaim though :P
<Kyral> slomo, lemme sort through my mail and I'll upload that buildlog someplace
<slomo> ok
<zul> hey
<Kyral> slomo, http://people.clarkson.edu/~petermcv/gnome-rdp_0.1.3-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<herve> yo daniel!
<dholbach> need to run... get back to germany ;)
* dholbach hugs herve and the rest of the motu guys
<dholbach> see you :)
<Kyral> this is farkin' stupid
<Kyral> WTF is up with the lag on my school net
<zul_> how do you get ubuntu netmask hiding
<Kyral> slomo, you have any idea what is wrong?
<zul_> er from freenode
<Kyral> zul_, I think you need to be an Ubuntu Member first
<zul_> Kyral: i am
<slomo> Kyral: i'll take a look later
<Kyral> oops
<Kyral> sorry :P
<Kyral> Then I think you need to talk to Seveas
<herve> has the procedure for forcing sync of a debian package over the old ubuntu one changed?
<LaserJock> anybody know what  "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source" means when doing debuild ?
<herve> LaserJock, you or some script changed or generated a binary file
<herve> and debian is trying to diff it
<LaserJock> herve: thanks
<slomo> Kyral: give me the url to the tarball again please ;)
<Kyral> their tarball?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1101
<Kyral> at the bottom
<Kyral> I wish I could just convert that Gentoo EBuild into a debpack....
<slomo> i hate anti-leech scripts
<slomo> if test ! -e `pkg-config --variable=prefix mono`/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll; then echo false; else echo true; fi
<slomo> what does this do for you?
<slomo> Kyral
<Kyral> I can't test it
<slomo> why?
<Kyral> don't have the packages installed ;P
<Kyral> I build the packages in my PBuilders ;P
<slomo> apt-get install mono
<slomo> please
<slomo> you need it anyway to run it later
<Kyral> wait...I'm running Beagle
<slomo> then you have it
<Kyral> maybe I don't have pkg-config installed
<Kyral> wtf mate?
<Kyral> I didn't have mono installed
<Kyral> wait...mono is a metapack
<slomo> yes
<slomo> you need mono-classlib-1.0
<slomo> for my test abov
<slomo> and beagle needs that too
<Kyral> still giving me false
<Kyral> Blasted configure script is looking in the wrong place
<slomo> it isn't
<slomo> if test ! -e `pkg-config --variable=prefix mono`/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll; then echo false; else echo true; fi
<slomo> does this tell you true?
<ubuntu> Hi all
<Kyral> no
<ubuntu> there is a good bridging tool some ware in the repos
<Kyral> Wait, do I need to run that with root?
<ubuntu> i  have forgoten the name
<slomo> Kyral: no
<ubuntu> you add like br0 to /etc/network/interfaces once you install it
<ubuntu> any one know the name of it?
<slomo> Kyral: dpkg -L mono-classlib-1.0 | grep SqliteClient
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4190
* ubuntu asks: anyone bridging to nic's in ubuntu?
<slomo> Kyral: your system seems to be broken ;)
<Kyral> why?
<slomo> Kyral: echo `pkg-config --variable=prefix mono`/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll
<slomo> Kyral: what does it tell you?
<Kyral> look in the Debian and Ubuntu repos for that
<Kyral> its where they are supposed to go
<Kyral> /lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll
<slomo> ah
<slomo> rofl
<slomo> add build-depend on libmono-dev
<Kyral> ??
<slomo> that's the package containing the pc file
<Kyral> you mean build depend indep ;P
<slomo> anyway
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I'm gonna have it depend on openssh-client, rdesktop, and tightvnc
<Kyral> since it supports those things
<Kyral> it depends on GNOME-Terminal...
* Kyral scratches his head
<Kyral> but what package to make it depend on "tightvnc"
<LaserJock> Kyral: BTW, I got a reply from the FlowDesigner authors. They both run Ubuntu and are pretty eager to get .debs
<Kyral> they got built in REVU
<LaserJock> Kyral: They wanted to know if they could change anything to help with the packaging
<Kyral> I dunno what the Lintain output means though
<Kyral> LaserJock, lemme finish Gnome-RDP first, then can we talk :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: np
<Kyral> what provides GConf-sharp?
<slomo> libgconf2.0-cil
<slomo> or libgconf-cil
<slomo> depends on what version you want
<Kyral> 2.0
<Kyral> configure: error: Package requirements (gconf-sharp-2.0 >= 1.9) were not met.
<Kyral> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<Kyral> I am really beginning to hate this package
<slomo> *sigh*
<slomo> is libgconf2.0-cil in build-depends? and libgtk2.0-cil?
<Kyral> and yes I do have libgconf2.0-cil in my depends
<tseng> hi Kyral
<Kyral> yes
<Kyral> hi
<slomo> Kyral: both? bah...
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> its pissing me off :P
<herve> night all!
<Valandil> ja, aber war das nicht nur alle 14 Tage
<Valandil> hupps, sorry
<lfittl> Should I remove the win32 dirs from the source when i am creating a cross-platform lib package?
<hub> lfittl: why?
<lfittl> just asking, maybe to keep the source package small?
<hub> lfittl: space of source package not an issue
<hub> usually you only rename the tarball to match packaging system
<lfittl> k, thx
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-13
<\sh> moins
<slomo> hi \sh :) how was your flight?
<\sh> good...but missed my connection flight from ffm to cgn and they lost my luggage then
<LaserJock> yikes!
<Lathiat> heh nice
<Lathiat> win 13
<slomo> \sh: completly lost or did it already show up again?
<\sh> it was found couple of hours later
<slomo> oh, at least some luck
<slomo> hmm, brb
<hub> how to I mark launchpad bugs in package changelogs?
<LaserJock> how do you get a man page installed using dh_installman?
<hub> LaserJock: you use cdbs, don't you?
<LaserJock> hub: I'm not using cdbs
<LaserJock> do you have to specify where the man page is?
<dredg> SYNOPSIS
<dredg>        dh_installman [debhelper options]  [manpage ...] 
<dredg> i hate to say 'rtfm' but...
<LaserJock> dredg: been there, done that, still confused
<dredg> really? looks pretty self-evident to me
<dredg> You tell it what man pages go in your packages, and it figures out where to install them based on the section field in their .TH line.
<dredg> and the above synopsis pretty much says 'use: dh_installman manpage'
<LaserJock> dredg: no, you specify if you don't want to have a man page installed
<dredg> if you don't want to have a man page installed then surely you don't run dh_installman?
<LaserJock> crap, I was looking at dh_installmanpages not dh_installman
<dredg> see the Notes bit at the end of the dh_installman manpage
<LaserJock> dang, still not working
<dredg> no?
<LaserJock> ok, I have my man page in /debian , is that ok?
<dredg> don't think so
<LaserJock> maybe the man page has to be in the source directory
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> ugghh, why won't it install a man page?
<crimsun> is the .TH section correctly formatted?
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure it is
<LaserJock> I compared mine with the one for less and it seemed right
<crimsun> make a package.manpages, then
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that worked. sweet
<hub> can someone review this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=876
<hub> it does fix a malone bug
<LaserJock> crimsun: does that mean I did something wrong or dh_installman couldn't figure out that my man page was a man page?
<crimsun> LaserJock: if the man page isn't installed explicitly, you'd have to use dh_installman path/to/foo.1 -p package
<crimsun> or something similar
<LaserJock> crimsun: but is it ok to have package.manpages in /debian ?
<crimsun> LaserJock: are they upstream's or debian's?
<crimsun> hub: that -data version dependency looks sketchy
<LaserJock> crimsun: I made the man page myself
<zakame> morning all :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: then having debian/package.section is fine, yes
<crimsun> doesn't have to be package.section, of course, but whatever your binary's name is
<hub> crimsun: the -data does have the glade files and 2.0.x does not have the same set
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, well I made a patch to put it in the source directory because I thought it might have to go there
<LaserJock> crimsun: and then have package.manpages
<hub> crimsun: that's why. I'm just fixing the package from Debian
<crimsun> LaserJock: nope, leave it in debian/ if it's yours
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok
<crimsun> hub: but why does glabels have this: Depends: glabels-data (<= ${Source-Version}) ?
<crimsun> hub: i.e., a dependency on a -data _lower_ that what you're trying to install?
<crimsun> s/that/than/
<hub> crimsun: it had
<zakame> hmmm glabels :)
<hub> crimsun: don't know. it is how it came from Debian
<zakame> crimsun: it's lower than or equal, actually, probably because -data doesn't change very much
<crimsun> which means if you have Breezy's -data installed, it won't be upgraded. Is that the intent?
<zakame> seems so
<zakame> however, if changes are made to -data, iirc upstream should be notified about it
<hub> crimsun: if it is not upgraded it does not work
<hub> crimsun: bug 3993 in malone
<hub> crimsun: because the .glade are in the -data
<hub> maybe the .glabe shoudln't be in there. I just fixed quickly
<crimsun> hub: then the <= is wrong
<zakame> should then be (= ${Source-Version})
<crimsun> the <= makes it so that having glabels-data 2.0.2-3 installed allows a upgrade of glabels from 2.0.2-3 to 2.1.1-2
<crimsun> without an accompanying upgrade of glabels-data
<crimsun> 2.1.1-1, sorry
<hub> crimsun: gah.... the control on REVU is not the one I have in my Emacs buffer
<hub> crimsun: weird
<zakame> hub: hihi
<LaserJock> how do you get dput to include the .orig.tar.gz?
<zakame> LaserJock: it should, unless its already uploaded, if that's the case, then its a dput -f ...
<LaserJock> zakame: didn't work for me
<hub> crimsun: I'll upload it again
<crimsun> LaserJock: -sa need to be passed to dpkg-buildpackage
<crimsun> needs^
<hub> I know why
<crimsun> sorry, my wifi connection is extremely lagged
<hub> stupid control.in
<hub> crimsun: the package I had uploaded didn't have the change
<hub> :-/
<crimsun> ok
<zakame> wb bmonty
<bmonty> hi everyone
<bmonty> hi zakame
<zul> evening
<crimsun> lo zul
<zakame> hey zul
<bmonty> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zakame> wb bddebian
<bddebian> How's it going bmonty ?
<bddebian> Hello zakame
<bmonty> bddebian: good, I got a new family member since I talked to you last :)
<bddebian> Oh yeah?
<bddebian> Boy or girl?
<bmonty> bddebian: boy
<bddebian> Cool, congrats
<bmonty> thankfully!
<bmonty> thanks
<bddebian> Thankfully?  Heh, I got 3 girls :-)
<zakame> bmonty: wow, congrats :)
<bmonty> bddebian: yeah, I'm not sure I want a girl based on what the guys I work with tell me about their daughters
<bmonty> zakame: thanks :)
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye ;-)
<bmonty> brb
<crimsun> boys and girls are handfuls in their own ways, heh
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian, how're things?
<bddebian> Busy :-(
<crimsun> yeah, I hear that
<bddebian> This "work" stuff is for the birds :-)
<crimsun> :-)
<dredg> come work here :) we get fed. and beered. and stuff.
* dredg wanders off for steak
<crimsun> (might I add that it's darned difficult to work for that company...)
<bddebian> dredg: Well hire me then :-)
<dredg> bddebian: send me your resume/cv
<bddebian> Bah, I have no sk1llz ;-)
<crimsun> better hide your karma then :p
<ajmitch> evening
<crimsun> lo ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> crimsun: I haven't gotten any karma in like 3 weeks :'-(
<bddebian> So how was UBZ?
<ajmitch> oh, it was ok
<ajmitch> bddebian: got any more laptops? ;)
<zakame> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: I still have the one I was gonna send ya.  Why? :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: And why just OK?
<ajmitch> bddebian: because mine was stolen
<zakame> ajmitch: stolen?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> that is what I said
<bddebian> ajmitch: :'-(
<zakame> ajmitch: awww
<zul> crappy hotel security
* ajmitch is at a friend's place at the moment
<bmonty> damn, I thought the ajmitch sticker on the bottom of the laptop I just bought off ebay was a coincidence
<Kyral> mwahaha
<ajmitch> heh
<zakame> wb hunger
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<zakame> wb LaserJock
<LaserJock> aren't you supposed to get an email after you upload to REVU?
<bmonty> I don't think so, it just shows up on the page
<zakame> I've done an upload twice now, and I haven't received any email yet
<zakame> bbl
<ajmitch> bddebian: btw I'm at a friend's place in the US
<ajmitch> not too far from you, anyway ;)
<bddebian> Oh no, not the EVIL US ;-P
<bddebian> Whereabouts?
<ajmitch> NY
<LaserJock> bddebian: Hi! haven't seen you around for a while ;-)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock .  I know been stuck in RL job :-(
<bddebian> ajmitch: Cool, so when you coming by? :-)
<LaserJock> does each upload to REVU have to have a new version number?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I dunno :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: well since my wallet was stolen too, I'm a little short on $$ :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Here or in Canuckistan?
<Kyral> yo
<zul> ajmitch: dude you are full of bad luck
<ajmitch> the restaurant at the end of the^W^W^Whotel
<ajmitch> zul: it was in the laptop bag, with my camera also
<Arrogance> we don't have theft in Canada.  It must've been a US tourist
<ajmitch> I was just 1 of 3 to have theirs stolen :)
<Kyral> ....why is everyone looking at me
<Kyral> ;P
<bddebian> Man, that sucks
<bddebian> Hello Kyral
<ajmitch> because you took off awfully quickly
<Kyral> I had an EXAM the next day!
<ajmitch> no excuse
<Kyral> Damn good excuse when you consider its the class I'm doing worse in
<Kyral> Hey bddebian, long time no see
<Kyral> LaserJock, can you have the FlowDevelop devs email me?
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you want something from them?
<Kyral> Nah just want to open the channel :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok
<Kyral> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931514941/qid=1131419259/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-5872496-2897745?v=glance&s=books <---YEA!
<Kyral> hmm, 10 bucks a book, and 14 volumes...
<Kyral> hmm :D
<Kyral> Its the ultimate sign of respect for me to actually buy something I already downloaded :D
<bmonty> is that cartoon pr0n or something?
<Kyral> Nah
<Kyral> very Ecchi, but not Hentai
<Kyral> Its Manga
<Kyral> Love Hina ranks around one of my favs :D
<Kyral> Along with Rurouni Kenshin, and the 30 year old Gundam metaseries
<LaserJock> what kind of things can you do when you log in to REVU?
<bmonty> LaserJock: make comments on your own uploads
<Kyral> Yah I need help with that POS Gnome-RDP program
<LaserJock> well, I made my first upload to REVU today.
<bmonty> nice, which package?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nice
<LaserJock> but I haven't gotten an email so I can't make comments. Hopefully that will happen sometime soon
<bddebian> ajmitch: How long you going to be in NY?
<LaserJock> plotdrop
<Kyral> Really Mitch is gonna be in my state?
<bmonty> LaserJock: just type your email with no password in the logon and the use the password recovery link
<Kyral> ooooo
<LaserJock> bmonty: ahhh
<Kyral> Swing by Potsdam NY on your way south :D
<LaserJock> bmonty: thanks, that worked like a charm ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: np
<bmonty> that stumped me for awhile until someone told me how :)
<LaserJock> now I just need some reviewers to look at it *hint*
<Kyral> yah and at FlowDevelop
<Kyral> then the MOTUScience team can have its first Releases :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: slomo said he was going to look at it
<Kyral> Yah but I'm impatient ;P
<ajmitch> bddebian: going to be around the state until the 14th or so
<LaserJock> well, I know that the MOTU are really busy coming from UBZ and probably have better things to do. But it sure would be nice
<Kyral> yah ;P
* Kyral thinks ajmitch wouldn't like to drop in on Clarkson
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hmm, I should try to get the lappy to you while you are here, it would be easier.
<Kyral> I so love developement cycles
<Kyral> multiple updates a day, you never know what may break next. Keeps life fun :D
<bmonty> good night everyone
<Kyral> cya
* Kyral pokes LaserJock
<LaserJock> yeah?
<Kyral> Check out the Lintain data for your package
<LaserJock> yeah?
<Kyral> You can fix it by setting standards version in control to 3.6.2
<LaserJock> what about the second one?
<LaserJock> build-depends-without-arch-dep
<Kyral> and changing arch to "any"
<Kyral> or all
<Kyral> whichever it isn't now ;P
<Kyral> any
<LaserJock> yeah, ok cool
<LaserJock> I gotta go now. I will c you all later
<LaserJock> thanks for the heads up Kyral. i will email the FlowDesigner devs for you
<Kyral> I get the pain in the arse NMU errors
<crimsun> Kyral: those NMUs are safely ignored
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<Kyral> What bothers me more is the lintain errors being generated at the build stage
<minghua> lintian errors at build stage?
* minghua didn't know that could happen
<Kyral> or like after it was built
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=872
<Kyral> checkout the Lintian entry at the bottom
<Kyral> I think its generating a lib that I wasn't expecting
<minghua> Kyral: wow, that's a _lot_ of lintian warnings
<minghua> Kyral: W: flowdesigner: unknown-section dev
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> but look what was generating most of them
<minghua> Kyral: this one is easy to fix, it should be either devel or libdevel
<Kyral> its making a library
<Kyral> that I wasn't expecting
<Kyral> E: flowdesigner: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libflow-0.9.so
<Kyral> Anyway I have to go to bed
<Kyral> 8 AM class
<Kyral> if anyone has any tips on how to fix it, leave it in the Review area for the package
<pef> hello
<minghua> hi pef
<zakame> hello
<poningru> hey
<zakame> what's up?
* freeflying is away: Away at the moment
<zyga> hello
<zakame> make hell.o all
<zakame> wb hunger
<lucas> zyga: you subscribed to the debian-ruby ml ?
<zyga> lucas: no I was busy lately and I do little FOSS stuff
<zyga> lucas: can you fwd me the mailing addr so that I can subscribe?
<lucas> debian-ruby@lists.debian.org
<lucas> go to http://lists.debian.org
<lucas> zyga: what's your email ?
<lucas> I'll Cc you on sthing rubygems-related
<Lathiat> lathi<t@bur.st tooplease
<zyga> thanks
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> lathiat@bur.st
<lucas> mail sent
* freeflying is away: Away at the moment
<zyga> lucas: got it, thanks
<janimo> hello all
* freeflying is back.
<hunger> seb128: And already back on IRC. That is true commitment!
<\sh> siretart: ping
<pef> can someone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=868 ?
<freeflying> pef:what's the matter
<pef> freeflying: just having a look for errors I haven't see
<freeflying> pefdoublecheck that the most recent entry in the changelog
<pef> freeflying: seems ok for me
<freeflying> pef:dose mixxx included in debian
<pef> freeflying: yep, but not yet in Ubuntu
<freeflying> pef:would you mind me to reaad your changelog file
<zakame> hi all :D
<zakame> can somebody revu my package? :)
<pef> zakame: url maybe ? :D
<zakame> pef: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=863
<\sh> MERGING TIME
<pef> zakame: the diff file contains autotools-dev stuff :/ (Makefile.in, aclocal.m4, etc), and it shouldn't
<zakame> pef: of course, I updated it :)
<zakame> pef: its a NEW package, so I have the luxury of building ./debian and updating from scratch :)
<slomo_> \sh: are bugreports already filed by MoM?
<slomo_> \sh: or will we got none this time?
<\sh> slomo_: check the bugzille...search for require merging
<slomo_> \sh: oh, yes finally... :)
<\sh> i'm starting tomorrow with it...after I reaaranged my desk here...
<slomo_> I'll do some everytime i have some free time ;)
<\sh> well we don't have much time
<slomo_> well, i have ~10 "freistunden" per week and a weekend ;)
<Nafallo> washes and prepare for father's day first :-P
<siretart> \sh: pong (but I'm at work right now)
<siretart> merging bugs at bugzilla?
<\sh> siretart: did u have a good flight back home?
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<siretart> \sh: yeah, it was okay. I slept the way home ;)
<siretart> w0t
<siretart> w00t
<siretart> lets check the link on the wiki
<siretart> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=merging&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=merging&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=merging&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=merging
<Nafallo> ouch. tinyurl -> topic? :-P
<siretart> yepp
<\sh> siretart: i missed my connection flight to cologne
<siretart> \sh: fuck!
<siretart> \sh: so what happened next?
<\sh> siretart: and then I had to take the train (they changed the booking)
<siretart> \sh: even better :)
<\sh> siretart: and when I wanted to claim my luggage at cologne central station, it wasn't there...they didn't board it on the train
<siretart> \sh: so did you get your luggage in the end?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o siretart]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | TOP PRIO: Merging: http://tinyurl.com/auu5d | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-t]  by siretart
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o siretart]  by siretart
<siretart> Nafallo: done ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<zakame> siretart: w00t
<siretart> \sh: is it possible that this is only for main, not for universe?
<Nafallo> ehm, is it just me or is gnome-media version 2.12.O-0ubuntu2 atm? :-P
<\sh> siretart: does it matter for u? :)
<siretart> \sh: I'm not in the keyring yet :/
<\sh> siretart: only a matter of time...
<siretart> yeah, I know
<magnon> *yaaawn*
<magnon> I just got up
<zakame> hi magnon
<magnon> funny thing is, it's now 8 in montreal
<magnon> :(
<siretart> morning magnon!
<\sh> morning magnon
<magnon> morning folks
<\sh> lunch time btw
<at1as> g'mornin' all
<zakame> may I pose a motu n00b question: how does merging work? :p
<magnon> does anybody have about 10m$ I could borrow for my competitive ubuntu applestore which I'm having great ideas for this morning? :P
<magnon> zakame: you take 1 and 2, put them together, hope that it works
<magnon> in this case 1 would be a debian package and 2 would be ubuntu changes
<siretart> zakame: by comparing the ubuntu patched to what has changed in debian in that time
<siretart> zakame: after that, you merge all patches together and prepare an upload. done
<zakame> siretart, magnon : i see.  So changes in debian that aren't in ubuntu get merged in, and assuming all's well, the pkg is injected back into the archive.  Am I correct?
<siretart> zakame: in principle, yes
<magnon> you could always read the mom source code too :)
<siretart> magnon: if you could
<siretart> magnon: mom is part of hct, which has not been released yet
<zakame> how about ubuntu changes that can be useful in debian?  are they forwarded to utnubu?
<Nafallo> debian bugs
<magnon> siretart: oh, dang. forgot
<\sh> zakame: no..actually u have to file a bug at the debian bts..or wait until the utnubu guys grabbing the patches
<dtf> Hey all, was wonder what the MOTU thoughts are on packaging firefox extensions and themes
<zakame> \sh: ah
<\sh> dtf: for this...talk to dieziet (ian jackson)
<siretart> zakame: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge is quite helpful for this
<zakame> siretart: checking it out, thanks :)
<magnon> time for lunch, see you
<dtf> sh: been talking to him I'm looking to present him with a list of pro and cons for a decision on how to handle installs/update
<\sh> dtf: I would like to see this as well...from a developer perspective...
<zakame> magnon, siretart, \sh : thanks :)
<dtf> \sh: ok I'll put together a wiki page with my thoughts and open it for comments
<\sh> dtf: right a small spec :)
<\sh> dtf: s/right/write/
<\sh> dtf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
<\sh> add this spec url to your LP account
<dtf> \sh woohoo my first ubuntu braindump
<\sh> dtf: good that I don't have to review it :)
<Nafallo> siretart: how to make that list show only universe? :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: I think there are now universe packages in that list yet
<Nafallo> even more so then :-P
<siretart> s/now/none at all/
<zakame> wb all
<\sh> ok...universe should be processed by MoM too
<siretart> they are, but I didn't see universe bugs yet
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> theres no way to file the bugs for universe
<siretart> we did for breezy
<siretart> against the UNKNOWN component
<\sh> btw....anyone who is interessted how MoM is looking....http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/ubz/20051031/P1000097.JPG.html
<\sh> siretart: but this time...there is malone
<\sh> grep http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107.log for universe...
<\sh> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107b.log
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<hunger> Anybody got some time to look over some newbies first set of debs later tonight?
<hunger> They are not coplete yet, but it would be nice to know whether I am on the proper track.
<zakame> wb hunger
<hunger> zakame: Sorry... this ISP really sucks!
<hunger> Can't keep a connection for more than about 2h at a time:-(
<zakame> hunger: awww
* hunger had to go for the cheapest bidder:-(
<zakame> wb thesaltydog
<zakame> wb pef
<pef> :)
<zakame> wb Tonio_
<Tonio_> zakame: hello
<\sh> motus, please read all ubuntu-devel-announce
<\sh> if you are not subscribed do it NOW
<\sh> regarding the CC meeting from today, we have to prospose at least 3 people for motu leadership to the next CC meeting
<\sh> please read the ubuntu-devel-announce ml
<\sh> thx
<Yagisan> \sh: is it in the digest ?
<zakame> ok
<bhuvan> \sh: lighting fast
<\sh> Yagisan: will be ...sabdfl writes a wrap up for the list
<\sh> so actually we should hold another motu meeting soon
<Yagisan> \sh: OK, I'll get that soon then. /me heads off to add another list to my bulging mailbox
<Nafallo> hm
<Nafallo> \sh: they don't like ogra and dholbach anymore? :-P
<\sh> Nafallo: ogra and dholbach are not the formal leads of motu
<Nafallo> ehm oki...
<\sh> Nafallo: they were setup by sabdfl..now we need formal nominations for the official team lead
<Nafallo> aha
<\sh> Nafallo: everything else you should read of the post on the list
<\sh> it has to do with membership nominations etc.
<Nafallo> haven't got it yet :-P
<\sh> Nafallo: it's not over yet...
<\sh> Nafallo: it will come :)
<zakame> wb dholbach
<hub> hey dholbach
<Nafallo> morning dholbach :-)
<dholbach> hi zakame, hi everybody else
<dholbach> Nafallo: morning... or whatever
<dholbach> *confused*
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> dholbach: welcome back home
<\sh> dholbach: u just missed a very important decision of the CC
<dholbach> \sh: which one?
<Nafallo> dholbach: they want to replace you ;-)
<dholbach> oh nice
<\sh> membership nominations have to be done by the TEAMs like the MOTUs...we can propose them to the CC or TB
<\sh> but for this to happen we need a formal team lead of at least 3 ppl
<\sh> which has to be approved by the MOTUs
<\sh> until the next cc
<dholbach> it's what we always did in the nominations
<dholbach> we always suggested them as a team
<\sh> no.
<dholbach> everybody had his say
<\sh> Member Nominations
<dholbach> both
<\sh> not MOTU upload rights
<\sh> yes
<dholbach> ?
<\sh> but now, the nominations has to come from 3 ppl out of the team
<siretart> need to go now
* Nafallo gets confused aswell :-P
<dholbach> it makes sense to formalize it
<dholbach> but it's what we always did
<dholbach> so it's alright for me :)
<bhuvan> \sh: better suggest to go through the logs :)
<\sh> bhuvan: no...I want to read it as well from sabdfl
<siretart> dholbach: there isn't that much difference in practical. it formalizes steps in a way to faciliate the nomination by the CC
<bhuvan> exactly
<dholbach> yeah siretart, that's how i see it
<Nafallo> let's see. we need 3 team leaders that can nominate people to become members at the cc?
<\sh> a team lead of 3 lets say it like this
<dholbach> i'd be fine with 3 people from the team
<siretart> dholbach: but we need to fix the 3 (maybe 4) ppl who actually do the checking for the nominations
<dholbach> (and nobody saying 'no' to the nomination)
<siretart> "fix" in the sense of "make it fix"
<\sh> dholbach, siretart and ajmitch ( my proposal)
<bhuvan> interesting :)
<dholbach> do we need "leaders" who decide on this?
<dholbach> i shouldn't think so
<siretart> dholbach: I thought you and ogra are the lead
<\sh> dholbach: formalized leaders..who proposes the nomination towards the CC/TB
<siretart> bhuvan: please deop yourself, we don't need ops here
<Nafallo> hmm, I'll better wait for that letter :-P
<dholbach> if we have 3 active people saying that they worked nicely with whoever the new motu is, and nobody stands up and says "no, he didnt do enough", that should suffice
<bhuvan> ok :)
<dholbach> siretart: his client makes the problem apparently
<\sh> dholbach: membership..not motu upload rights
<siretart> dholbach: so he should fix his client
<Nafallo> \sh: as in ubuntu members, right?
<\sh> Nafallo: yepp
<dholbach> i don't like the idea... i trust any active motu enough to say that somebody else did enough good work
<hunger> Is there some kind of sponsorship in ubuntu (like in debian)?
<\sh> dholbach: too late
<\sh> dholbach: it's already approved by CC
<siretart> dholbach: define 'active motu'
<zakame> hunger: no, but there is revu
<dholbach> but everybody should feel free to say "no, not yet", if that's their opinion
<siretart> dholbach: the proposal is about getting it more formal, you know
<dholbach> siretart: i guess you have a gut feeling about everybody, if he's active or not
<siretart> dholbach: yes, but a 'gut feeling' is not formal in any way
<dholbach> i don't like policies defining a number of uploads that has to be counted
<siretart> dholbach: neither do I
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> "visibilitiy and activity" were always words who were good enough
<dholbach> i absolutely don't inted to change that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | TOP PRIO: Merging: http://tinyurl.com/auu5d | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.Grep for Universe for Universe Merges log
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
<siretart> dholbach: the point is that the CC wants to improve the current MemberNomination Process
<dholbach> *nod* sure
<dholbach> but numbers or rigid definitions don't help there
<siretart> dholbach: they do help, if they are sane
<siretart> dholbach: nobody but you mentioned 'counting uploads'
<siretart> dholbach: the proposal was that we define a group of motus who have to decide about a nomination. thats all
<dholbach> then please help me by giving me a "definition", i could refer to
<siretart> dholbach: in practice, there is not much difference to the current process
<dholbach> hm
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
<siretart> the process is to be defined, not the amount of work an applicant has to do
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | TOP PRIO: Merging: http://tinyurl.com/auu5d | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
* siretart wants topic diffs
<siretart> ;)
<dholbach> fuck... still no motu report
<\sh> yes
<\sh> me too
<siretart> anyway, need to go now. CU tomorrow!
<zakame> motu report?
<dholbach> see you siretart
<zakame> bye siretart
<dholbach> zakame: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReport
<zakame> dholbach: ooh
<hub> dholbach: I have updated a couple of packages on REVU, including one to fix a bug in the Debian package
<dholbach> hub: nice
<hunger> How can I request an "informal" revu? The debs are by far not finished, but I'd love to get some feedback on whether I am on the proper track.
<selinium> Hi all, Do i need to be able to code python/C++ to be useful in the MOTU?
<zakame> selinium: desirable, but not really imho :)
<sladen> selinium: no
* hunger hopes python is not required! :-)
<sladen> selinium: FWIW, I hate C++ :)
* zakame doesn't know much of many languages, just a bit of everything
<hub> sladen: C++ is nice :-)
<selinium> I am a 31 year old PHP programmer, I am about to start learning some python and some C++.
* hub has to learn Python still
<selinium> Is it better to come back to the Motu when I am better equipped?
<hunger> selinium: IMHO the only way to learn something is by doing it.
<dholbach> selinium: i think you can learn quite a lot "on the fly" :)
<zakame> wb bhuvan
<hunger> selinium: I am no motu myself, but I'll help if I can:-)
<hub> selinium: I barely use my programming skill for packaging
<zakame> selinium: consider it as on-the-job training :)
<selinium> ok, how do I get onboard. I have signed the CoC and have a GPG....
<hunger> selinium: You will learn more about shell scripting and autotools than you ever wanted to when packaging;-)
<selinium> I have installed pbuilder
<hub> selinium: is you key signed? :-)
<selinium> hunuger, cool! I really want to get my shell scripting up to speed
<selinium> hub yep
<selinium> hub, i think so...
<hub> keyid?
<hunger> hub: What does he need a signed key for?
<selinium> hub, sorry, the CoC is signed.
<zakame> selinium: shell and makefiles come in handy :)
<hub> hunger: authenticate the key for the CoC signature, etc
<hunger> hub: Isen't it more important to get some debs started? After all you need something to ign:-)
<hub> hunger: at one point it will be needed. it is not a requirement for REVU
<selinium> hub:  6779883A   i think.  https://launchpad.net/people/selinium
<hunger> hub My key is signed... dunno whether it is signed by anybody known to the ubuntu crowed.
<hunger> How does revu work?
* Nafallo key is signed by Tollef :-)
<zakame> selinium: cool gotchi :D
* hunger started rolling xen debs. Should probably started with something easier;-)
<selinium> zakame, :)
<selinium> zakame, pixelated a bit on resizing, which is a shame :)
<zakame> selinium: hmm, didn't notice, it's all fine by me via 1280x960 :D
<selinium> zakame, Cool :)
<hub> hunger: I'm pretty sur your key should be fine with the # of signatures
<dholbach> hrm... that crazy nomination thing? was that "decided" today?
<dholbach> i couldnt find it on the agenda
<hunger> hub: That key was in the top50 of the most trustworthy keys for a while;-)
<selinium> hub: is my key signed?
<selinium> hub: how do I tell ?
<hub> selinium: you should know if it is or not
<hub> selinium: but I can tell it is not
<hub> selinium: you need to meet people IRL to have it signed
<selinium> hub: ok :)
<hub> selinium: because they need to check you ID
<selinium> Okay, Seveas, nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos all 'know' me from #ubuntu.
<selinium> So what is the next step....
<hunger> Is it possible to upload something "not meant for use" into revu?
<dholbach> what for?
<zakame> hunger: hmmm, you could put a comment with something to that effect, but why upload at all?
<hunger> zakame: Because I need some feedback whether I started on the proper track.
<zakame> hunger: do you have your own webspace? 'coz if so you could just put your debs there and prolly kindly ask the people here to take a look at it
<hunger> zakame: I never packaged something before and Xen is a huge beast.
<hub> selinium: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey <- explain shortly about signing
<hunger> zakame: There is a problem;-)
<selinium> hub Cheers :)
<hunger> zakame: ivoks volunteered to host the stuff once it becomes useable. Dunno whether the current state already counts.
<hunger> I got the apps, hipervisor and libs packaged. I'll start on a kernel patch deb tonight.
<zakame> hunger: wtg ! :D
<selinium> OK anyone near London? :)
<hunger> Anyone got a debian kernel patch creation howto?
<zakame> dh-kpatches
<hunger> zakame: Thanks!
<zakame> hunger: np ;D
<zakame> hunger: if you use cdbs you can also take a look at quilt :)
<hunger> zakame: I failed to grasp cdbs, so I settled for a multi.
<hunger> zakame: Xen's build system is somewhat... inconsistent.
<zakame> hunger: how come?
<schweeb> cdbs is the only way to fly
* hunger wonders whether he has to but dh-kpatches at linsprire;-)
<\sh> schweeb: bah
<hunger> zakame: It is a code dumped together by different groups.
<zakame> hunger: gaah
<hunger> zakame: Some use "make all" to build, some "make build" and others go for just use "make install" stupid.
<zakame> hunger: gaah, no wonder
<zakame> schweeb: is cdbs the only way?
<schweeb> cdbs rocks.  it's not exactly required, but it makes life not suck so much
<Yagisan> dholbach: me either. How can they decide on something that wasn't even mentioned it was going to be discussed ?
<zakame> i see... I've been using Manoj's debian-dir, which according to him is inspired by cdbs
<zakame> hmmm which MOTUTeam should I join? :)
<zakame> wb LaserJock
* hunger wonders why the first hit he got on google for dh-kpatches is in linspire's webshop.
<hunger> Why would anyone BUY that?!
<zakame> hunger: buwahaha
<LaserJock> hi all
<LaserJock> when the mom log says "created bug ..." where is that bug?
<slomo> LaserJock: in bugzilla
<slomo> LaserJock: see topic
<LaserJock> slomo: not malone?
<slomo> no
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<\sh> LaserJock: i posted the mom logs thx to keybuk
<\sh> LaserJock: grep for universe and we'll get a list....i'll start tomorrow working on the list
<hub> mom, the robot oil supplier?
<\sh> MoM Merge O Matic
<hub> \sh: I know. was a joke
<hub> \sh: for those who know Futurama
<\sh> hub: i know futurama..but I don't like it...even so, i'm a big simpsons fan :)
<LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I saw the logs, I just didn't know where the bug reports were being sent.
<hub> \sh: my hostname is "bender"
<hub> \sh: you know it in English or dubbed?
<\sh> Bender is the robit
<hub> yep
<\sh> -it+ot
<hub> "bite my shiny metal ass ! meatbag !"
<hub> (that was a quote)
<\sh> i know it only in german...the simpson I watched some seasons in english
<hub> \sh: maybe it lose a lot dubbed :-/
<hub> the Quebecquois version is horrible
<slomo> Riddell: ping?
<Riddell> slomo: hi
<slomo> Riddell: taglib needs "merging"... or better, it can be synced with dropping ubuntu changes as debian only has cosmetic changes ;) can you take a short look at it and ask elmo for a sync? (i ask you as taglib is somewhat kde related)
<Riddell> slomo: will do (tomorrow probably)
<slomo> Riddell: thanks... no need to hurry... it's only for getting automated syncs again :) and i just wanted to remove some work from you
<\sh> elmo is still at ubz
<hub> can someone archive "http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=841"
<hub> it is deprecated as Debian synced a more recent version
<slomo> hub: sure
<slomo> archived
<hub> slomo: thx
<hub> I may resurrect it later, I'll see
<hub> no biggie
<LaserJock> I don't suppose there is a MOTU with nothing to do lurking about?
<dholbach> LaserJock: what are you exactly trying to find out?
<LaserJock> well, I was looking for somebody to review an upload to REVU but I don't want to be obnoxious
<dholbach> which one is it? (i can do it in some minutes)
<LaserJock> plotdrop
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> do it in some minutes
<LaserJock> thanks, I know you guys are busy
<herve> hello
<dholbach> hi herve
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> is berlios down?
<slomo> yes
<\sh> shit
<\sh> how is the url for projects on berlios.de? (e.g. the equivalent of sf.net/projects/<projectname>
<\sh> s/how/what/
<Amaranth> i think it's just developer.berlios.de/projectname
<Amaranth> i can't get to berlios.de at all right now though
<hub> can someone archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=878, it has been accepted to the archive
<herve> hub, yes
<herve> ... or I can't...
<hub> herve: you can't
<hub> herve: was more for slomo, \sh, dholbach
<herve> seems like being reviewer is not enough
<slomo> hub: just tell me the package name in the future ;)
<hub> slomo: sorry. glabels
<herve> strange, it has no advocate
<herve> *ad* advocate mine ;-)
<slomo> hub: done ;)
<slomo> dholbach: i'll do some reviewing for revu on thursday... are there any priority items?
<\sh> herve: what you can't do...u r motu ,)
<herve> \sh, upload in main!
<\sh> herve: ah no :) u can't
<dholbach> slomo: no, no idea (maybe some that have 1 vote already?)
<slomo> dholbach: ok, i'll do 1-voters and updates first ;)
<dholbach> rock
<slomo> hub: why is autopano-swift for multiverse?
<herve> ha, I can see on dapper-changes that UBZ is over :-)
<slomo> dholbach: and some merges after i'm bored of reviewing ;)
<dholbach> doing merges while doing bugs atm
<dholbach> that should be a policy: "if you touch a package, see if you can merge it first" :)
<slomo> dholbach: yes, definitly... maybe something to discuss at the next motu meeting ;)
<dholbach> althought it should be  a very natural thing to do
<dholbach> not a policy
<dholbach> i like people taught to do the right thing better than a big rulebook
<herve> yes, I did it just yesterday
<slomo> dholbach: well, i'm doing it mostly now... (but forgot to do so some times already) ;) but a rule for that wouldn't hurt... we need some kind of reference anyway... not everybody knows everything ;)
<dholbach> hmmmmmmm
<dholbach> we'll end up with a big rulebook in the end ;)(
<dholbach> but yeah, writing it up, doesnt hurt
<Kyral> hey all
<slomo> dholbach: but as a first rule please add a link to the debian policy ;) that would save some work :P
<dholbach> Mortas: UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath was your idea, right?
<slomo> Kyral: hi :)
<dholbach> slomo: diziet worked on the developer docs spec
* Kyral groans at the time for the next CC meeting
<Kyral> I start vacation that day...
<slomo> Kyral: hehe, you proposed yourself as member? :)
<Kyral> No, I was gonna see when the meeting was before I did :P
<dholbach> herve: it's not over yet
<Kyral> I was groaning because I won't be able to this time around again
<dholbach> herve: only for most of the distro team
<Kyral> I mean I MIGHT get home in time, but I'd need to QUICKLY setup my laptop
<slomo> dholbach: and sadly not for elmo... he has probably 10-15 sync request by me in his mailbox ;) he won't be happy when he looks at his mailbox after ubz
<dholbach> slomo: i suppose he had worse tasks
<herve> plus one from me :-)
<dholbach> what syncs are those? some which override our changes?
<herve> yes, bugfixes merged by Debian for instance
<slomo> dholbach: most of them, yes... the only exception are two (or three?) NEW packages
<dholbach> slomo: we'd get them in automatically, no?
<dholbach> slomo: the new ones
<slomo> dholbach: NEW ones? no... at least we didn't get them yet
<dholbach> we should get them automatically
<herve> not with "ubuntu" in the revision?
<dholbach> i don't understand
<slomo> dholbach: hmm... afaik the auto syncing only works on packages which are already in ubuntu
<dholbach> no, don't think so
<slomo> hmm, let's ask elmo ;)
<\sh> phew
<\sh> this was a long mail
<\sh> to write
<slomo> \sh: berlios is up again :)
<\sh> slomo: well...now I don't need it anymore :)
<slomo> lol
<slomo> ok :)
<slomo> but i still need it ;)
<schweeb> I'm siding with dholbach on this one
<schweeb> I'm under the impression that everything gets synched (except for packages that are intentionally excluded)
<slomo> well... pitti doesn't know it too ;)
<sladen> funny, lemo is discussing that exact same sisue at the moment on this table
<sladen> elmo
<\sh> sladen: move to this table and write life
<\sh> vgrn#
<\sh> live
<sladen> hehe
<\sh> sladen: it was impressing what u tried at the motu meeting...:)
<slomo> sladen: hehe, it's sufficient when you write down the conclusions ;)
<sladen> <elmo> screw you hippie
<\sh> hahaha
<Kyral> Can someone help me decipher some Lintain errors?
<slomo> Kyral: sure
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/flowdesigner-0511052140/flowdesigner_0.9.0-0ubuntu1_i386.lintian
<Kyral> the errors about shlibs
<slomo> omg
<Kyral> Its building its own lib that I didn't expect
<slomo> whiprush: flowdesigner: script-not-executable ./usr/share/flowdesigner/examples/dtmf.n
<slomo> whiprush: flowdesigner: unusual-interpreter ./usr/share/flowdesigner/examples/dtmf.n #!batchflow
<slomo> add overrides for these
<herve> ha, there's some -fPIC missing
<Kyral> how?
<Kyral> call the dh_makeshlibs helper?
<slomo> uh, i never saw that many lintian errors/warnings at once :)
<herve> "description-starts-with-package-name" <- this one is easy to fix
<sistpoty> hi folks
<herve> and written in the debian policy
<slomo> Kyral: do you call it already? dh_makeshlibs i mean
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<herve> hi sistpoty
<Kyral> Yah I know that, I wanna nail the damn lib error :P
<Kyral> slomo, no
<slomo> Kyral: ok... first...
<Kyral> But I can uncomment it in rules :D
<slomo> split the package
<Kyral> how?
<herve> siretart, ping
<slomo> Kyral: oh wait...
<slomo> what is this lib good for? only internal use?
<Kyral> I think so
<herve> well, someone else could answer
<herve> and empty lintian or linda file on revu really means there's no error or warning?
<slomo> and tell these guys to use SONAME the right way...
<slomo> herve: yes
<Kyral> whats SONAME?
<herve> then... woohoo!
<slomo> Kyral: when it's internal only they should put it somewhere else or make a good soname ;)
<slomo> Kyral: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
<slomo> Kyral: this will solve your problems with the libs ;)
<Kyral> isn't being put under /usr/lib/packagename now?
<slomo> E: flowdesigner: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libflow-0.9.so
<slomo> E: flowdesigner: postinst-must-call-ldconfig usr/lib/libflow-0.9.so
<slomo> whiprush: flowdesigner: postrm-should-call-ldconfig usr/lib/libflow-0.9.so
<slomo> no
<slomo> hmm... why does it complete to whiprush?!
<slomo> whiprush: *test*
<slomo> wtf
<slomo> xchat autocompletes "W :"
<Kyral> ????
<\sh> hahaha
<herve> slomo, xchat automatic completion
<\sh> xchat is crap with this nick completion
<slomo> Kyral: what are the ? for? ;)
<Kyral> So should I just patch it?
<hub> slomo: autpano-sift is restricted by patents in the US...
<Kyral> I didn't know what you were talking about ;P
<hub> slomo: but if it is fine in universe, it is perfectly fine with me
<Kyral> slomo, would calling dh_makeshlibs fix this?
<slomo> Kyral: no... package it correctly and tell these guys to use proper soname for their lib in /usr/lib... or put it somewhere else
<slomo> Kyral: partially
<whiprush> heh
<slomo> hub: patents on what exactly? ;)
<hub> slomo: the SIFT algorithm
<slomo> Kyral: read http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html please... there you will find all answers for the libs
<hub> slomo: the university of British Columbia applied for it in the U.S.
<Kyral> I'm gonna comment out dh_installman
<hub> slomo: it is mentionned in the copyright file
<slomo> Kyral: why?
<Kyral> it doesn't HAVE a manpage
<slomo> Kyral: it won't hurt
<slomo> Kyral: better concentrate on the real problems ;)
<Kyral> It will stop those warnings at the beginnings :P
<slomo> no
<slomo> these warnings are correct
<Kyral> oh, what is the proper section?
<slomo> every binary should have a manpage
<\sh> Kyral: write the manpage
<slomo> Kyral: it isn't _needed_ but better to have one
<Kyral> umm....1) I have no clue how it works
<slomo> Kyral: section would be devel
<Kyral> 2) I have no clue how to write a manpage ;P
<\sh> Kyral: ever heard of docbook?
<Kyral> yah
<herve> Kyral, do as I do, copy one and change the text ;-)
<slomo> Kyral: you can convert docbook to manpage via xslt ;)
<slomo> Kyral: but concentrate on the lib issue first please... the other stuff is easy to do :P
<\sh> Kyral: so...if you do a clean dh_make call in a stupid dir....then u get a docbook manpage template
<\sh> Kyral: which u can change...and translate with docbook2man towards a real manpage...
<Kyral> ahh
<\sh> its easy and nice
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<\sh> wuahhahah....the earth is falling down
<slomo> Kyral: or look for example at my cowbell package... manpage in docbook-xml is there... and xslt call
<\sh> noone there to hold the earth
<slomo> \sh: ?
<slomo> \sh: ah... lol =)
<\sh> slomo: atlas said he's back
<\sh> so he's not holding the earth anymore
<\sh> slomo: bah...history :)
<slomo> \sh: history? mythology :P
<\sh> slomo: actually it was "Hercules" ,)
<dholbach> LaserJock: done
<slomo> dholbach: you can assign avahi (including service-discovery-applet) bugs to the avahi team :)
<dholbach> slomo: sorry... do you reassign?
<slomo> dholbach: already done ;)
<dholbach> rock on
<slomo> dholbach: the 3 sda bugs will be solved with the next release... probably only waiting for avahi 0.6
<dholbach> cool
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> so, UBZ is over and it's time to work again
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> guys that were at UBZ: are there any special news others should know? (i was quite busy these days and didn't read -devel carefully)
<ivoks> hm... looks like i'll be your black sheep this release :)
<herve> hello ivoks
<ivoks> o, hi herve
<ivoks> i hear a lot of news from france... you guys are making tourists reconsider their trip to french alps :)
<\sh> ivoks: what do u want to hear? that we decided that ivoks is doing all merges?
<\sh> that ivoks will get main upload and is doing all distro work?
<ivoks> \sh: huh... that would the end of ubuntu :)
<\sh> ivoks: well...no
<\sh> ivoks: actually we have 6-8 weeks from now for new things and merges
<herve> ivoks, we have the best internet access anyway ;-)
<\sh> ivoks: then we have UVF and bugfixing
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> so, this is shorter for dapper
<ivoks> understandable...
<ivoks> herve: :)
<herve> \sh, you mean I have 6 weeks to get my package in dapper?
<ivoks> \sh: thanks for the info,
<\sh> ivoks:the open development yes...the bugfixing is at least 1 week longer so dapper will be released one week later then normal, and dapper+1 release schedule will be decreased by 1 week
<\sh> herve: yes
<herve> ouch
<\sh> herve: but if they're not bringing in new main lib deps which are not there after 6 weeks...then we can do some special treatment
<ivoks> interesting
<\sh> the plan is, to stay with the main release schedule
<\sh> at least for this release
<\sh> but ubz was more...I love now having wifi
<ivoks> \sh: more?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Mirno]  by ChanServ
<\sh> Mirno: u don't need op status
<ivoks> huh
<herve> \sh, more wired?
<slomo> sistpoty: will we also take languages like nemerle? ;)
<Mirno> woops
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Mirno]  by Mirno
<\sh> herve: well...it was interesting to meet the other guys like ajmitch and sladen and siretart
<\sh> and koke
<Mirno> \sh: I needed it on another channels. an how did I get op here ?
<\sh> and and and
<\sh> Mirno: don't ask me..ask lilo
<ivoks> Mirno: we don't get op here
<ivoks> Mirno: we trust each other
<dholbach> yay! :)
<dholbach> it's the hug day again ;)
<ivoks> :)
<Mirno> ivoks: I uses /chansevr op all to op me on my channels (I needed to change some mods) and it oped me here .. I suppose you have a very low access level here
<Mirno> sorry anyway
<herve> no problem
<sistpoty> slomo: sure, why not
<slomo> sistpoty: fine... i love this language =)
<slomo> sistpoty: and i created a ml page
<sistpoty> slomo: as long as no other team wants to take care for a language, why not list it there ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: cool :)
<dholbach> slomo: want to have zeroconf bugs there too?
<slomo> sistpoty: i'm the maintainer of one ml and the nemerle package ;) so no one else will care probably
<slomo> dholbach: when it's avahi related yes... otherwise no
<dholbach> hrm
<slomo> dholbach: but better ask Lathiat
<at1as> Where do I post bugs for Universe (like transcode)/
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<at1as> ?
<dholbach> i'll assign it to motu, nevermind
<at1as> or xvid?
<dholbach> at1as: http://launchpad.net/malone
<slomo> at1as: malone... and assign to motumedia
<slomo> sistpoty: did you already had a look at nemerle?
<sistpoty> slomo: not yet
<slomo> sistpoty: write it on your todo list ;)
<crimsun> at1as: what's wrong with transcode?
<sistpoty> slomo: sure... will do :)
<slomo> sistpoty: nemerle page created :)
* sistpoty looks
<sistpoty> slomo: good work :)
<slomo> sistpoty: thanks :)
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> recompiling
<Kyral> it said something about compiling with -fPIC
<elektranox> hello, I want to make a package suggestion for Dapper Drake and the UbuntuUsers.de Team send me to you...
<slomo> Kyral: what?
<slomo> elektranox: tell us more :)
<Kyral> when I hit the deb with lintain -vi
<Kyral> said something about "Compiling shared libs with -fPIC
<slomo> Kyral: ah yes... libraries have to be compiled with -fPIC... look at that page i've given you one hour ago and read it :P
<Kyral> can I make a suggestion that Lintain on REVU be run with -vi?
<crimsun> Kyral: yeah, you should - in fact it's a must for most non-i386
<elektranox> @slomo: I found a package for communicate with an calculator from Texas Instruments in Ubuntu, but no for an calculator from Casio :(
<Kyral> crimsun, I'm not the maker ;P
<slomo> elektranox: is there already an app which does this?
<elektranox> @slomo: yes, it's aviable at sourceforge:
<elektranox> http://cafix.sourceforge.net/
<slomo> Kyral: tell them to fix -fPIC and soname ;)
<Kyral> Hows about I also attach the output from Lintain?
<slomo> Kyral: that doesn't hlep them probably...
<slomo> but do it ;)
<Kyral> It can explain somethings better than I can
<slomo> maybe... and give them the url to the libraries page in the debian policy ;)
<Kyral> Throwing the book at them?
<LaserJock> dholbach: thanks for reviewing my package
<slomo> Kyral: only that one page :P
<Kyral> LaserJock, I'll handle the ChemPaint package
<herve> Kyral, no, gently passing the book several meters trought the air :-)
<lfittl> elektranox: That one is already listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<Kyral> and ask the FlowDesigner devs to email me
<slomo> Kyral: and consider packaging http://cafix.sourceforge.net/ =) should be an easy one
<Kyral> petermcv@clarkson.edu
<Kyral> slomo, only if you take GNOME-RDP off my hands
<at1as> crimsun: I'm having a bad time importing xvid, using any of ffmpeg, xvid or divx.
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, just check to make sure Debian doesn't have it first and nobody is working on it for Ubuntu. Seems like there might have been
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<Kyral> I think I checked Debian
<Kyral> wtf is Cafix do?
<slomo> Kyral: casio calculator interface ;)
<Kyral> ah
<slomo> Kyral: i won't touch gnome-rdp... upstream has to fix that mess and we can talk about it again... did you already mail them?
<Kyral> I'll work on it once FlowDesigner gets done
<elektranox> the text says ubuntu - nobody Oo
<Kyral> slomo, nope
<Kyral> I don't think English is upstream's first language either
<Kyral> Tried to go to the website to see if I could find anything, its all in a language I don't know
<slomo> but they speak english ;)
<slomo> oh
<crimsun> at1as: "a bad time" isn't exactly precise
<crimsun> at1as: what precisely is the issue?
* Kyral thinks he should put a "Packages I'm working on" section in his Wikipage
<Kyral> LJ, have you been in direct email contact with the FlowDesigner devs?
<lfittl> slomo: I could try to package libcafix & gcafix, I have enough time to do it
<Kyral> lfittl, I can do it
<Kyral> I need the experiance under my belt ;P
<slomo> lfittl: fine :)
<slomo> there are enough packages to do for all of us :P
<lfittl> Kyral: me too ;)
<slomo> just look at universecandidates
<LaserJock> Kyral: I just emailed the two authors and cc'd it to you
<Kyral> lfittl, its all yours ;P
* Kyral looks at the calendar
<Kyral> I believe becoming an Ubuntu Member would be a nice xmas gift ;P
<elektranox> lfittl: if you want i can test the packages for you ^^
<Kyral> Just gotta keep at it :D
<herve> reviewing packages is good too ;-)
<Kyral> You need to be an Ubuntu Member (and MOTU?) to do that
<lfittl> elektranox: thanks that will help, just give me some time to do the packaging work ;)
<slomo> Kyral: he means "real" testing, not reviewing ;)
<Kyral> During December Break, you know I'll be hyperactive in packaging
<Kyral> along with learning Python
<elektranox> lfittl: no
<elektranox> lfittl: i only want to test if the package run
<elektranox> lfittl: but my english is so bad, that i can't say it so well :P
<slomo> elektranox: you're german?
<elektranox> slomo: yes
<slomo> elektranox: hehe, you can almost speak german here :P but only almost ;)
<sistpoty> das ist nur ein geruecht (that's only a rumour) ;)
<elektranox> mh gut zu wissen ^^
<sistpoty> but be kind and use english ;)
<herve> Kyral, I can help for Python :-)
<slomo> herve: you will learn python for him? ;)
<Kyral> Well, I cleaned up Flowdesigner as much as I could
<Kyral> namely my typos in control ;P
<\sh> what was that? deutsch hier? german here?
<herve> slomo, I'm confident he could ask me a question I can't answer!
<LaserJock> what do I do about a menu icon that is not in xpm format?
<Kyral> he..wait....
<slomo> \sh: klar doch ;)
<slomo> LaserJock: convert to xpm or ignore the warning as nobody still uses xpm ;)
<herve> there's even a certain browser that will soon display 24-bit png with alpha channel :-)
<LaserJock> slomo: well, dholback made a comment about it when reviewing my package. I would rather not mess with the authors files. hmmm
<slomo> LaserJock: put a converted xpm file in debian/ and install it from there by hand
<LaserJock> slomo: ok, and not install .png at all?
<slomo> LaserJock: install both
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<slomo> and use the xpm for the menu file (not the .desktop file, the other one ;) )
<LaserJock> ok, makes sense
<LaserJock> is it possible to reupload an updated version of a source package while keeping the version number the same. I hate having bump up the ubuntuX number everytime I fix a typo
<LaserJock> or is that motivation to not make any mistakes ;-)
* Kyral scratches his head
<slomo> LaserJock: for revu?
<LaserJock> slomo: yes
<herve> night all
<Kyral> is there anyway I can apply the Ubuntu Kernel patches to the 2.6.14 kernel?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: sure, that's no problem... as long as the latest ubuntu version is lower
<slomo> LaserJock: you can upload the same version multiple times to revu (but only to revu!)
<slomo> LaserJock: dput -f bla.changes if it tells you it's already uploaded ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, I have been having problems doing that. It also complains about needing the .orig.tar.gz when I have already uploaded it. maybe I am doing something wrong here
<LaserJock> do you need to reupload the .orig.tar.gz for every ubuntuX version?
<slomo> yes
<Kyral> So no one knows where I can get the Ubuntu patches to the kernel?
<LaserJock> slomo: oh, ok I thought since the source hadn't changed it wouldn't need to.
<crimsun> Kyral: eh?
<crimsun> Kyral: linux-patch-ubuntu-2.6.12
<Kyral> for the 2.6.14 ;P
<crimsun> the git tree is public
<Kyral> ...and how do I use that? :P
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide
<Kyral> Score debpacks for GIT ;P
<Kyral> so this is the 2.614 kernel + patches?
<crimsun> it's a live snapshot of the tree
<Kyral> the vanilla kernel tree?
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I'd love it if I found a way to compile the NVidia drivers and the Madwifi driver for my Wireless card into the kernel
<slomo> gn8 everybody
<elektranox> slomo gn9
<Kyral> cxya
<dholbach> good night, everybody
<highvoltage> goodnight, dholbach
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<Kyral> cya
<elektranox> Kyral: the madwifi driver is already in ubuntu Oo
* highvoltage is off to bed too
<dholbach> night guys
<sistpoty> gn8 highvoltage
<Kyral> elektranox, not in the vanilla 2.6.14 kernel
<Kyral> which is why I wanted to know if I could apply the Ubuntu kernel patches from 2.6.12-9 to 2.6.14
<elektranox> mh I tried one time to install the madwifi driver by hand...
<Kyral> Module-Assistant helps
<Kyral> but I'm trying to have a completely integrated kernel
* felipe_ waves, "Hello!"
<\sh> good night motus.
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh_away
<felipe_> How much time of your week does it takes to be a MOTU of a single pakage?
<schweeb> you don't get assigned specific packages, generally
<schweeb> except for the teams
<schweeb> you put in how much time you feel like putting in
<felipe_> schweeb, So....where can I try to see if I can do it before enrroling in a team?
<schweeb> you don't even have to join a team
<Pygi> Hello people :)
<schweeb> but, check malone for bugs in universe packages, then submit to REVU
<felipe_> Well the wiki web page says I should enroll at launchpad with the motu team...
<schweeb> er, after fixing it of course
<Pygi> I need one info from you if possible
<elektranox> hello, is here a python freak?
<Pygi> what do you need from python?
<Pygi> How can I become a motu? I need to become one because I have recently started one project with matt galvin
<Pygi> thanks for answe
<felipe_> schweeb, how do I search for bugs specific to universe packages?
<schweeb> good question
<schweeb> haven't found a good way myself yet
<felipe_> hahahaha
<Pygi> schweeb: :/
<elektranox> Pygi, I have a package wich is not compatible to breezy
<Pygi> gah, python package?
<elektranox> it consists of different python scripts and a glade prject file
<Pygi> gah :/
<elektranox> my problem is the depending...
<Pygi> I would look at it, but don't have the breezy installed right now :/
<Pygi> maybe you could send it to my mail so I'll have a look at it?
<elektranox> wait I give you a download link ^^
<Pygi> gah, please send it to my mail
<Pygi>  I don't have time to download right now ^^
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 folks
<elektranox> then please help me only with this line:
<elektranox> Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ${python:Depends}, python-gnome2, python-glade2, visualboyadvance
<elektranox> how can I say to use python2.3
<elektranox> and not python
<elektranox> *the line is in debian/config ;)
<Pygi> gah...
<Pygi> is that game boy emulator or something like that?
<elektranox> its called gnomeboyadvance
<Pygi> gah :P
<elektranox> my problem is that the script want to use python, wich links to the wrong python...
<Pygi> hm, do you have file with .py extension?
<elektranox> yes some full dirs :s
<Pygi> gah :/
<Pygi> ok, here what you'll do :)
<elektranox> the most are the config files for the emulator
<Pygi> open each script with text editor, and on the first line you'll see path to python interpreter
<elektranox> yes
<Pygi> yes, and edit the path to the python interpreter that works
<Pygi> you did it?
<elektranox> yes
<Pygi> and?
<Pygi> does it work?
<elektranox> I have to repack it
<elektranox> (it's my first time so wait a bit ^^)
<Pygi> kk :)
<Pygi> you alive? :)
<elektranox> yes i install pbuilder
<Pygi> oh
<Pygi> let me know if it worked
<elektranox> i will do ;)
<Pygi> send me a mail
<Pygi> cause I think I'll be off
<Pygi> mario.danic@gmail.com
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-06
<TheMuso> Looks like not.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: no, brandon and I are going to work on it a bit later
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Is the food alright at this summit?
<TheMuso> Right.
<pygi> luisbg, which one,what, etc?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yes, we had indian for lunch
<TheMuso> oooo nice.
<luisbg> pygi, it's a statistics program a friend of mine is doing for collegue last year project
<LaserJock> also got google tshirts
<TheMuso> Cool.
<luisbg> google shirts!?
<luisbg> I want ONE ! LOL
* luisbg envies LaserJock everyday more
<pygi> LaserJock, while you are there tell them they sent me only one shirt, instead of three :P
* theCore also envies LaserJock 
<TheMuso> How is the VOIP stuff working out?
<LaserJock> not sure
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> they have conf. call phones in each room
<TheMuso> Right.
<luisbg> bbl
<LaserJock> much better setup then Paris
<TheMuso> Well Henrik was telling me that the stuff he has heard on VOIP hasn't sounded that good.
<Le_Vert> hello
<Le_Vert> is there any ubuntuist here ?
<luisbg> Le_Vert, what is an ubuntuis?
<luisbg> s/ubuntuis/ubuntuist
<Le_Vert> someone that use ubuntu :p
<luisbg> then yes, I am
<Le_Vert> I just wanna know if upload to universe are allowed again ?
<Le_Vert> I went here a few days (weeks?) ago
<thom> Le_Vert: for feisty, yes
<Le_Vert> because I'd sync my debian package to ubuntu
<Le_Vert> but edgy was in deep freeze
<ajmitch> is it unmodified in ubuntu?
<ajmitch> eg, does it have ubuntu in the version string?
<Le_Vert> of course not
<Le_Vert> most are only in the debian archive
<Le_Vert> or really outdated in ubuntu
<ajmitch> then it will be synced automatically in the next few days in feisty
<Le_Vert> mh
<Le_Vert> okay
<Le_Vert> what's about ntfs-3g
<Le_Vert> someone packaged it in ubuntu while I was doing it for debian
<ajmitch> I think that syncs have just been turned on, or will be very soon
<Le_Vert> my package has an epoch
<ajmitch> then it wouldn't get synced automatically, since we don't just overwrite ubuntu changes
<Le_Vert> well
<ajmitch> it gets put on a list of packages to check & merge
<Le_Vert> is there anything I could do for this ?
<ajmitch> how different are the packages?
<Le_Vert> mine is up-to-date and install with suid root (group fuse) to allow fuse group member to upload ntfs volume
<luisbg> ajmitch, I would like to learn to know how ubuntu works from inside out, everything... what book or url do you recommend me?
<ajmitch> luisbg: I doubt there's any single place that you learn *everything*
<Burgundavia> luisbg: community or technical?
<ajmitch> the wiki documents a lot
<Le_Vert> and the ubuntu package versionning really sux
<Le_Vert> 20060920-0ubuntu2
<luisbg> Burgundavia, both... right now I need more info in community, but also would like technical (to understand how all fits together)
<Le_Vert> great
<ajmitch> yes, I haven't looked at the ubuntu package, that version does look very bad
<luisbg> ajmitch, I didn't meant the one place to go... but a good one to start with
<Le_Vert> an epoch will be needed when the first stable version will come out
<Le_Vert> it's stupid :)
<Burgundavia> luisbg: what sort of questions about the communtiy do you have?
<luisbg> Burgundavia, how tasks are handled
<ajmitch> Le_Vert: I agree, but there's not much we can do about that now :)
<Burgundavia> what sort of tasks? which part of the distro?
<Le_Vert> okay... :)
<ajmitch> Le_Vert: ideally we'd just use the debian packages
<Le_Vert> okay
<Le_Vert> I'll wait for the sync then
<luisbg> Burgundavia, I think I understand the packaging process, but the more core stuff?
<Le_Vert> does someone can be my sponsors if some of my package are not synced automatically ?
<Burgundavia> luisbg: which core stuff? you need to give me more details
<Le_Vert> s/does someone can/can someone/
<ajmitch> Le_Vert: yes, if you create debdiffs against existing packages, attach them to a bug in malone, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<luisbg> Burgundavia, installer for example
<ajmitch> that's the full way of doing it :)
<Burgundavia> luisbg: right, the installer is done by Colin Watson and Ridell
<Burgundavia> luisbg: if you want to change any part of Ubuntu, the easiest way to is to create a spec, assuming your change is more than one line or so
<luisbg> spec?
<Burgundavia> luisbg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecLifeCycle
<luisbg> Burgundavia, cool
<luisbg> =)
<Burgundavia> luisbg: the better way would be to say "I want to do X"
<Burgundavia> then go asking community members how to do that
<luisbg> I see
<luisbg> should go to bed now
<luisbg> goodnight all
<ianm_> what's the best channel for talking about creating a launchpad spec?
<Burgundavia> ianm_: what is the spec?
<SlimG> anyone know of a great guide on howto pack a .deb package the right way? no checkinstall
<ianm_> Burgundavia: standardizing the notification area click responses
<Burgundavia> desktop
<Burgundavia> SlimG: packaging guide
<Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<ianm_> thanks Burgundavia
<SlimG> Burgundavia: Thanx alot!
<Burgundavia> no worries
<crimsun> motu-sru is rockin the house
<Jozo-> Should bugs like bug 70495 assigned to motu-team? And are those bugs good candidates to SRU?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70495 in rpy "python-rpy doesn't follow debian python policy" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70495
<crimsun> ja
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> Jozo-: it's a suitable SRU candidate, yees
<crimsun> geez, my typing is horrible tonight
<crimsun> I would prefer other people shared the load with motu-sru so that we don't end up having to generate all the SRU debdiffs ourselves
<geser> crimsun: should a seperate sru request bug be filed for bug 65266?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65266 in php4 "[UVF Exception]  Sync php4 4.4.4 from Debian unstable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65266
<bmonty> crimsun: SRU follows the same process as syncs or UVF exceptions?
<geser> bmonty: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<ajmitch> crimsun: sharing the load how?
<crimsun> bmonty: largely the same procedure as main's SRU with the difference that we require 5 tested (confirmed) ACKS once in -proposed or 7 days, whichever takes longer, before uploading to -updates
<crimsun> ajmitch: it would be awesome if people requesting the updates would generate the SRU debdiffs, too
<ajmitch> crimsun: that should be mandatory in the policy
<crimsun> geser: it looks like infinity and dholbach are in agreement, with infinity proceeding, on it
<crimsun> geser: (so unless I missed something, you don't need to file a separate SRU bug)
<geser> I will ask inifity about the bug as now apache is fixed
<SlimG> when editing copyright file made by dh_make, what is an "Upstream Author: " ?
<SlimG> and what to do with the "Copyright: " field when the app is gpl licensed?
<Hobbsee> whoever made the program
<Hobbsee> !packagagingguide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packagagingguide - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Hobbsee> see the spiel in that first link
<Hobbsee> how'd the first day for UDS go?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I believe it went well.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, you at UDS?
<Hobbsee> lastnode: nope
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: cool.  looks like we have a really bad timezone for it
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Its not too bad.
<TheMuso> From 9AM our time, we can still catch the arvo session.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ahhh...true
* Hobbsee looks for the schedule
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Join #udsmtv to find the links for the schedule etc in the topic.
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<Hobbsee> hey doko
<zakame> hi Hobbsee and doko! :D
<doko> Hobbsee: good evening (should be morning for you?)
<Hobbsee> doko: about 1pm.  midafternoon
<Hobbsee> doko: where do you normally reside?
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<fernando> hi all
<rmjb> hello fernando
<bmonty> anyone seen mvo?
<Hobbsee> bmonty: isnt he at UDS?
<bmonty> Hobbsee: I assume so
<bmonty> I'm not there so I'm not sure
<crimsun> (yes, he is.)
<rmjb> is feisty available to build on?
<Hobbsee> bmonty: there are various people at #udsmtv - if you wanted to contact him thru some of them
<Hobbsee> rmjb: it's not open yet
<rmjb> ok
<bmonty> I think I'll just send him an email
<bddebian> What package exports MONO?  MONO
<crimsun> sorry?
<bluefoxicy> stratagus 2.2 alpha is out
<bluefoxicy> Final release should be done by Edgy+1; but I'm not sure what version of guichan it needs.
<bddebian> crimsun:
<bluefoxicy> apparently there's a guichan0 (0.4.0); guichan versions are NOT compatible, so 0.4.0 != 0.5.0 != 0.6.0 (cvs)
<bddebian> checking for MONO... configure: error: Package requirements (mono >= 1.0) were not met:
<bddebian> No package 'mono' found
<bddebian> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<bddebian> installed software in a non-standard prefix.
<crimsun> as in 'mono-devel'?
<bluefoxicy> short version:  The naming for the guichan0 package bugs me.
<bddebian> crimsun: Dunno, I have mono and mono-gmcs installed
<crimsun> bddebian: libmono-dev, too.
<crimsun> ->phone.
<bddebian> Ah, libmono-dev, thanks crimsun
<bddebian> glade-sharp? Hmm
<rmjb> is it okay to have the source package with one name and the binary package with another?
<rmjb> see here for what I mean: http://pmplib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pmplib/branches/branch_0.12/debian/control?view=markup
<Burgundavia> rmjb: yes, there are lots of packages like that
<Amaranth> rmjb: happens all the time
<rmjb> okay cool, thanks
<Amaranth> pyxdg source package outputs python-xdg binary package, for example
<Burgundavia> epiphany is another one
<rmjb> so if someone does apt-get source epiphany they'll get an error or it will pull down the correct source package?
<Burgundavia> hmm epiphany is not correct
<Burgundavia> that is renaming from upstream
<Burgundavia> as for the xdg one, try it
<rmjb> yep, it finds it correctly
<rmjb> nice
<rmjb> is REVU taking submissions?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> i believe so, anyway
<Hobbsee> no one can do anything about it for a while though
<bhale> Hobbsee: !!!
<Hobbsee> hey bhale!!!!!
<rmjb> so I should wait, cause it might not get any attention and hence get lost?
<Hobbsee> it wont get lost
<Hobbsee> but poke someone in here about it
<rmjb> okay let me get the package up
<Hobbsee> rmjb: also, the feisty toolchain isnt finished - so it may not build yet
<zakame> right, when's it going up?
<rmjb> well I'm doing something for edgy
<Hobbsee> rmjb: why?
<rmjb> edgy-updates ?
<Hobbsee> not for new packages
<rmjb> people might want it?
<Hobbsee> doesnt matter
<Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about timebasedreleases - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !release
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<Hobbsee> second link
<Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases is <alias> release
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<rmjb> I read somewhere that revu packages usually make it in since they're usually of "high quality"
<Hobbsee> uh....i wonder where you read that
<Hobbsee> that's mostly wrong
<rmjb> in the sru policy I think
<rmjb> I'll see if I can find it
<Hobbsee> rmjb: basically,k'tis somewhere to upload, and for people to review it
<Hobbsee> that doesnt mean that its' of good quality
<rmjb> I was thinking that the amount of reviewing it would get, by the end it'll be of high quality ?
<Hobbsee> it only needs two advocates, but yeah
<Hobbsee> it's whether it gets them, or how long it takes
<Hobbsee> MOTU's dont really like checking new stuff, oddly enough :P
<rmjb> us hopefuls need someone to mark our work as we learn :P
<Hobbsee> hehe, yeah
<Hobbsee> linda and lintian are good for that
<Hobbsee> (package checkers)
<Burgundavia> rmjb: you can upload to feisty and then get it backported
<bhale> hello Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey bhale
<Hobbsee> hey Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> bhale: you in MTV?
<joejaxx_> hello Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> hey joejaxx_
<rmjb> linitian should be updated for ubuntu's policies.. it complained about me doing an NMU, but motus said it's not that much of an issue in ubuntu, that's mainly for debian
<Hobbsee> rmjb: indeed.  linda doesnt complain about that
<joejaxx_> Hobbsee, are you at mtv?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx_: nope
<joejaxx_> :(
<rmjb> I'll try this linda thing
<Hobbsee> runs the same way as lintian
<zakame> you guys at MTV?
<Hobbsee> doesnt seem like it
<rmjb> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UpstreamVersionFreeze?highlight=%28revu%29
<rmjb> that's the one, it's for UVF, not SRU
<rmjb> these acronyms are easy to mix up
<Hobbsee> ...
<Hobbsee> interesting
<Hobbsee> i didnt know we could put NEW stuff in
<Hobbsee> then again, i guess nothing else depends on it
<bhale> Burgundavia: no sir
<bhale> Burgundavia: I have renamed UDS to Ubuntu Developer Lockin
<_Enchained> hi
<Burgundavia> bhale: why so?
<_Enchained> can I have help in packaging for ubuntu ?
<bhale> Burgundavia: because thats what it is
<Burgundavia> bhale: in what sense?
<bhale> is the schedule still 9am to 9pm?
<Burgundavia> it was 9 to 6 today
<bhale> first day has been historically Community
<bhale> and short
<bhale> if you are still alive with N hours of jetlag and 12 hours of spec writing
<bhale> you are a better man than me
<Burgundavia> not there, but yes
<rmjb> udf started already?
<bhale> udf?
<rmjb> uds I mean
<rmjb> sorry
<Hobbsee> yeah, it started today
<rmjb> till saturday/
<rmjb> ?
<rmjb> !uds
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uds - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<_Enchained> while packaging a software, how can I modify the place where are installed the files ?
<minghua> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<minghua> _Enchained: please read that guide
<minghua> _Enchained: and be more specific what you mean by "the place where are installed the files"
<rmjb> you motus get notified of new uploads to revu or a hopeful has to find you all and tell you all?
<minghua> only some of the MOTUs, revu-reviewers or something similar, I think
<rmjb> oh, okay
<rmjb> thanks for all you guys help tonite... my 2nd package has made it to revu
<rmjb> good night all
<_Enchained> minghua: in fact, the "locales" files are installed in /usr/share/local, but they should be installed in /usr no ?
<minghua> _Enchained: yes, they should be in /usr/share/locale/
<_Enchained> so, how can I change this ? (I musn't edit the original files)
<minghua> well, depends on how you built your package
<minghua> it may be a simple ./configure switch
<minghua> maybe you need to modify the makefiles
<Hobbsee> !info grip edgy
<ubotu> grip: GNOME-based CD-player/ripper/encoder. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.3.1-6build2 (edgy), package size 451 kB, installed size 1292 kB
<LaserJock> hola motu land
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I see it is incredibly active in here tonight
<crimsun> it's a weeknight.
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> ah, well it seems the important people are up ;-)
<crimsun> well yeah, fabbione's client seems to have just joined
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hi dude
<LaserJock> it feels so weird not being on IRC much at all today
<LaserJock> and yet my day was all about Ubuntu
<ajmitch> evening
<Fujitsu> Eek, SoundConverter bugs are piling up in both Ubuntu, and a bit in Debian.
<Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch.
<LaserJock> ajmitch!
<LaserJock> long time, no see
<ajmitch> yeah..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm assuming you have wifi at your hotel?
<joejaxx_> LaserJock, *-artwork is done
<joejaxx_> :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: \o/
<joejaxx_> i am working on default-settings now
<joejaxx_> :D
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> darn, I don't see the MOTU spec on the schedule tomorrow
<LaserJock> but there are 2 low priority specs on the list :/
<minghua> how many MOTUs are at Mountain View now?
<LaserJock> zul, ajmitch , dholbach
<zul> at least 4
<LaserJock> myself
<LaserJock> I can't think of anybody else off-hand
<ajmitch> imbrandon
<LaserJock> of course, I'm the only *true* MOTU as I'm the only one that isn't a core-dev ;p
<zul> yeah that will change you will be assimilated
<ajmitch> hello zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how is it going?
<LaserJock> resistance is futile
<ajmitch> alright..
<LaserJock> well, I got mdz to change the MOTU spec to Medium priority
<ajmitch> good
<minghua> LaserJock: does that mean it will be in the schedule?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> I just want it to be on the schedule before I leave
<LaserJock> it's a bit selfish, but it's really one I wanted to be on :-)
<minghua> and I want LaserJock to be there too, to represent us "real" MOTUs :-P
<zakame> lol
<ajmitch> since the rest of us just don't matter :)
<zakame> when I edit something in gobby I will save later right? to update the remote session?
<crimsun> ajmitch: just mere mortals, I guess
<ajmitch> not raging MOTU-holics like some
<LaserJock> yeah, slackers ;-)
<zakame> MOTU-holics?
<LaserJock> that's correctly, "raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU" but I'll let it slide
<ajmitch> sorry
<LaserJock> haha
<zakame> hehe
<LaserJock> I didn't even realize I had said that *I* was the one that said
<LaserJock> that
<LaserJock> I was like, "Why are people calling me that?"
<LaserJock> then I did a head-desk
<zakame> wp:head-desk
<zakame> err ECLI
<zakame> should have been ud: too :D
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> having 5 MOTUs is a pretty good showing
<LaserJock> and Jono said he was very interested in MOTU
<ajmitch> he'd better be..
<zul> or
<LaserJock> well, he was more interested then I would have thought
* LaserJock attempts to read a little on LDAP
<joejaxx_> yippee
<joejaxx_> time to test the fluxbuntu packages on a ubuntu system
<joejaxx_> fluxbuntu-desktop is about to be 0.3
<joejaxx_> LaserJock, finished default settings
<LaserJock> woot
<joejaxx_> not i am going to try it on a ubuntu system
<joejaxx_> s/it/them
<joejaxx_> this should be interesting
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ping?
<siretart> whoho. feisty looks like being open for buisness :)
<joejaxx_> lol
* joejaxx_ oh noes
<joejaxx_> :P
<sivang> morning motus
<slomo> hi sivang
<sivang> are we synced yet(tm) ? ;)
<sivang> slomo: !!
* sivang hugs slomo 
* slomo hugs sivang
<slomo> :)
<sivang> slomo: you were off for a while I was afraid uni work ate you!
<slomo> oh i was only off over the weekend as usual :) what's the state of feisty now btw, i finally want to upload some stuff ;)
<sivang> slomo: I know that some sync are already filed, some of the toolchain is there but still it's not open.
<sivang> slomo: what stuff do you want to upload already ?
<slomo> dbus*, avahi, mono*, gstreamer* and seahorse ;)
<sivang> slomo: ahhh, I see quite a list
<Burgundavia> slomo: you going to give us a new ffmpeg with shiny wmv9 goodness?
<slomo> Burgundavia: nope, still waiting for a gst-ffmpeg release :/
<Burgundavia> hmm, would be nice if the ffmpeg could figure out that stables releases were a good thing and changing api/abi at will is total crack
<slomo> they say it would be nice but that they don't have the people or time for it
<Burgundavia> interesting assertion
<Burgundavia> but, yes, release managment is hard. Observe debian
<sivang> Burgundavia: how's the summit going?
<Burgundavia> sivang: not there
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> apt-get remove nvidia-glx - shouldn't want to remove all xorg pacakges and ubuntu-desktop should it
<cbx33> ?
<crimsun> I ... wouldn't think so
<cbx33> well it does here :(
<cbx33> anything I can check
<cbx33> and should I raise a bug
<cbx33> and is it possible to fix ;)
<crimsun> strange, doesn't do that here.
<cbx33> hmm...
<cbx33> I just upgraded to the latest one
<cbx33> ohh...
<cbx33> hang on 2 ticks
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> still doing it
<cbx33> funny thing is it talks about them being needed to be auto-removed
<cbx33> and not being required anymore
<cbx33> then says it's going to remove them
<giskard> you are using external repos?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> it's very odd
<minghua> you are supposed to have ubuntu-desktop installed
<minghua> (and this question is better suited in #ubuntu instead of here)
<cbx33> anyone here at uds?
<crimsun> most are asleep, I presume.
<cbx33> yes me too
<cbx33> I was just wondering...the schedule that has been posted
<crimsun> and I thought I was the only one who could type while asleep.
<cbx33> is that for todays meetings
<crimsun> on 2006-11-06 ? I presume so
<cbx33> well it's filed on the wiki under sunday's schedule
<cbx33> and the page title is different to the H1 title
<cbx33> so it is a little confusing
<cbx33> I'm presuming on means which day it was generated
<Lestat> The new Xvid 1.1.2 will be in edgy ??
<crimsun> in Edgy? No.
<Lestat> in feisty so ?
<crimsun> probably
<Lestat> ok thx
<crimsun> it just appeared a few days in debian-multimedia, so...
<TheMuso> cbx33: Hey dude.
<TheMuso> cbx33: You at uds?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> got invited
<cbx33> but work commitments ment i couldn't go
<crimsun> same here.
<crimsun> perhaps you can attend May 2007's
<TheMuso> Ah well.
<cbx33> hopefully
<cbx33> hopefully i'll be in a new job by then
<TheMuso> cbx33: Any responses about discussion on the next round of sounds?
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> I was going to do a BOF at UDS
<TheMuso> waaaaaa?
<cbx33> but seeing as I can't go... :(
<TheMuso> cbx33: Did you end up emailing those who didn't like what you did this time around?
<cbx33> TheMuso: we'll sort it out at some point
<cbx33> TheMuso: no...I didn't get time
<cbx33> not yet anyway
<TheMuso> Ok no worries.
<TheMuso> I should just record my ideas and put them up somewhere. :)
<cbx33> how are you though ;)
* StevenK is wondering if he can do the next UDS.
<cbx33> yeh send em through to me
* StevenK fires up the dateline for uni.
<TheMuso> cbx33: I'm very well thanks
<TheMuso> I'll do that when I get the recorded.
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> TheMuso: you may be interested in a new project I'm working on ;)
<StevenK> Hum. I may well miss things if I'm at the UDS.
<StevenK> Depends what I enroll in.
<cbx33> it's only small...a gnome applet for converting files
<cbx33> just drag drop and convert ;)
<TheMuso> I prefer doing them on the command line myself.
<cbx33> I'm working on the audio files side of things at the mo -
<cbx33> heh
<TheMuso> Sounds good, but not something I'd find useful personally.
<cbx33> it's been fun working out gstreamer ;)
<TheMuso> I'll bet.
<cbx33> works pretty well now
<Fujitsu> Aw, poor soundconverter. No deprecating my package :P
<cbx33> I can read in ogg mp3 wav and convert to wav ;)
* StevenK has been hacking on an pygtk app. Fun.
<cbx33> sorry Fujitsu
<cbx33> ;)
<TheMuso> Meh command-line utils FTW.
<StevenK> Only because they're simple to make accessible.
<cbx33> you see.....I'm hoping cambio will have extendable codec support
<StevenK> Because they already mostly are. :-P
<cbx33> so it will hopefully be in main
<TheMuso> StevenK: Very true, and they are scriptable.
<cbx33> but if you install the other gstreamer plugin sets it grows in what it can do ;)
<cbx33> initially you'll only get wav/ogg support
<cbx33> universe will give you mp3 read
<cbx33> multiverse to get mp3 write
<cbx33> unfortunately that's due to the licensing :(
<Fujitsu> Er, isn't gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly required for MP3 reading?
<crimsun> that's one.
<crimsun> gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 is an alternative
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's true.
<cbx33> Fujitsu, yes it's required
<TheMuso> I'm not such a fan of gstreamer.
<Fujitsu> GStreamer isn't bad.
<TheMuso> I don't believe it can give one the best latency atm however.
<TheMuso> Adn the jack plugin is no longer maintained.
<cbx33> well, it allows me to put cambio in main
<cbx33> aww that sux
<cbx33> Jack rules
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Its another reason why I won't be using Jokosher any time soon.
<cbx33> I'm sure jono will get jack support built into it at some point
<cbx33> you just can't dismiss jack
<cbx33> it is da-bomb
<TheMuso> I hope so.
<cbx33> infact probably the only reaason why he hasn't is the jack plugin not being supported
<cbx33> maintained
<TheMuso> Any serious audio app that I might want to use has to have jack support, or else it doesn't get a look in.
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> I totally agree with you
<TheMuso> Yeah. But IMO it would be better not to use gstreamer for jack.
<cbx33> but then we've had this discussion before
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<cbx33> it is a nice easy framwork to use
<cbx33> from my small musings with it
<TheMuso> But latency wise? How good is it in that department?
<cbx33> I can write python audio apps really easy
<cbx33> I'm afraid I havn't tested it for that
<TheMuso> RIght.
<cbx33> I'm only using it to decode a stream
<cbx33> and then encode it again
<TheMuso> RIght.
<TheMuso> Anyways, thats how I feel about it all.
<giskard> do you know if universe is already open?
<fernando> morning all
<Fujitsu> giskard: It's not.
<giskard> Fujitsu: ok!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
<bddebian> heya Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<luisbg> hey ajmitch
<giskard> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hey giskard
* hub looks for R Daneel Olivaw ;-)
<giskard> hub: ehehe :)
<imbrandon> moins
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<giskard> hello ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<_Enchained> hi
<_Enchained> ajmitch: can you sync the gpg keys between launchpad and revu please ?
<bluefoxicy> is oprofile totally broke for anyone else
<Adri2000> bluefoxicy: why is it "broken"?
<Adri2000> !info oprofile
<ubotu> oprofile: system-wide profiler for Linux systems. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.2-1 (edgy), package size 179 kB, installed size 460 kB (Only available for i386 ia64 alpha hppa powerpc sparc amd64 arm mips)
<bluefoxicy> Adri2000: Using default event: CPU_CLK_UNHALTED:100000:0:1:1
<bluefoxicy> /usr/bin/opcontrol: 1: arith: syntax error: "NR_CHOSEN - 1"
<bluefoxicy> No events given.
<bluefoxicy> Adri2000:  it seems to randomly give things like "2:  file not found" or "cannot find CLK_WTF" etc etc when trying to start it or, specifically, pass -p library
<Adri2000> Adri2000: will be fixed soon, see bug 69455
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69455 in oprofile "bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69455
<Adri2000> bluefoxicy*
<bluefoxicy> ah, thanks
<Adri2000> (lol, talking to myself...)
<bluefoxicy> I just happen to have the misfortune of trying this a half hour before the fix gets here huh :P
<minghua> hmm, Ubugtu seems to get 69455 wrong
<minghua> it's not fixed in ubuntu
<chantra> hi, is there anything started for feisty?
<chantra> like #ubuntu+1 :)
<bhale> syncs dont start for 2 weeks
<chantra> okie dokie
<chantra> have you guys seen that gaim beta4 has been released
<chantra> I guess it will be usefull to create a gaim-text, gaim-ui package
<chantra> and a gaim metapackage so you can install gaim-text on a text only mchine without all the X related dependencies
<bhale> thats pretty funny
<bhale> as sean egan once said of todd berman: "i cant take anyone with a blog seriously, anyway"
<chantra> ?
<bhale> beta4 will likely be updated in the next few weeks
<chantra> yep, but still, being able to run gaim on a non X machine, that will be great :)
<ubuntu_newb> Hello all.
<_Enchained> ajmitch: here ?
<ajmitch> _Enchained: yes?
<_Enchained> ajmitch: can you sync the gpg keys between lauchpad (tema contriutors) and revu please ?
<_Enchained> Adri2000 said me to ask you...
<ajmitch> _Enchained: yes, I did that earlier
<_Enchained> ok ajmitch thanks
<_Enchained> so I can upload on revu ?...
<ajmitch> yes, you should be able to
<_Enchained> thks ajmitch
<crippledcanary> I just uploaded my first package but forgot to build with -sa and want to upload again.
<crippledcanary> Can anyone help out
<bhale> rm *.upload
<bhale> try again
<crippledcanary> thanks... it worked
<qmx> hi to everyone
<qmx> where can i find docs about how to make packages from svn sources?
<qmx> or cvs...
<kiko> hey there
<kiko> how's it going?
<_Enchained> I try to upload my first... ^^
<kiko> ajmitch, are you around?
<ajmitch> kiko: yep
<kiko> ajmitch, so I have two bugs that might be worth looking at from somebody motu-related
<ajmitch> such as?
* ajmitch is about to walk into a room full of MOTUs
<kiko> 70627 and 67416
<kiko> I was just wondering about the process
<fernando> hi MOTUs on MOTU room heheh =)
<_Enchained> Rejected:
<_Enchained> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution. :(
<kiko> ajmitch, should I assign to motu, or do something else
<_Enchained> what meens ?
<ajmitch> _Enchained: you uploaded to revu, not ubuntu?
<_Enchained> ajmitch: I must upload to ubuntu ?
<_Enchained> not revu?
<ajmitch> kiko: just looking at them now - general process is that they get put into a very large queue of bugs to look at in universe
<kiko> heh
<ajmitch> _Enchained: no, you must upload to revu
<_Enchained> ok, I must edit the conf file no ?
<Adri2000> _Enchained: in /etc/dput.cf set default_host_main to revu
<_Enchained> ok thx Adri2000 (it was written on the revu page ^^)
<ajmitch> kiko: and 67416 is main, , no?
<kiko> is scrollkeeper main?
<kiko> gross!
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> wonderful, isn't it?
<_Enchained> Adri2000: is there a deamon to restart after changing the conf file ?
<ajmitch> someone already volunteered to fix tz-brasil, I see
<Adri2000> _Enchained: no, then just use dput *.changes
<_Enchained> ok
<_Enchained> ahh Good signature on packaging/dvd95/dvd95_1.1p2-0ubuntu1.dsc. :)
<_Enchained> it's a good sign
<_Enchained> ok my package is on revu :)
<_Enchained> (dvd95 if someone wants to take a look at)
<Mez> whos talking about me :D
<Mez> lol
<nixternal> haha Mez ;)
<Mez> darn you people
<Mez> lol - they did sound a bit stunned when I butted into the convo
<Mez> lol
<Mez> nixternal, you at the conference ?
<nixternal> im there as 1's and 0's
<nixternal> just like you
<nixternal> on a bit-by-bit basis
<Mez> nixternal lol
<Mez> I wasnt actually paying attention to the convo, then I just heard my name ;)
<Mez> scary to be referred to as anything other than "Mez" though
<nixternal> ya, imbrandon said your name about going afk during your move
<nixternal> haha ya
<Mez> but why was going afk bought up ?
<nixternal> don't know if it was about package maintenance or what
<nixternal> i couldn't catch that, because it was rather faint at that point
<Mez> I'll ask him tomorrow ;)
<Mez> i'mn surprised voip actually works quite well
<Mez> I might set up myself an asterisk server
<nixternal> it works very well actually..im going to get in on the mic later...my mic yesterday, got stepped on...so i have to go pick up one here in like...right now actually
<Mez> lol
* Mez has to use a crappy mic
<Mez> cause i cant find my uber headset
<nixternal> ya, mine will be crappy as well
<nixternal> im using my sony streetstyles from like 2000..i love them..but the mic is part of a goofy headset
<Mez> nixternal, lol
<giskard> do you know why bind9 is not in universe?
<geser> because it's in main :)
<giskard> ehrr
<giskard> why i cannot find it?
<geser> !info bind9
<ubotu> bind9: Internet Domain Name Server. In component main, is optional. Version 1:9.3.2-2ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 292 kB, installed size 724 kB
<giskard> what i found is bind8 and  pool/universe/b/bind/bind_8.4.6-1_i386.deb
<giskard> ehrr
<giskard> geser: on my fresh edgy install i cannot install it
<geser> try pool/main/b/bind9
<geser> what error do you get?
<giskard> geser: it's not listed/showed in apt-cache search/show bind9
<giskard> i'm using us.archive.ubuntu.com as mirror
<giskard> uhm i can see it: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/b/bind9/
<geser> have you checked your sources.list?
<giskard> yes :( bah, stupid me, i wrote edgy universe instead of edgy main universe
<chantra> hi back
<Adri2000> what should we do when the upstream tarball provides a debian/ directory?
<dholbach> Adri2000: it's up to you
<dholbach> Adri2000: either re-pack the .orig.tar.gz or live with a badly readable .diff.gz
<dholbach> Adri2000: I personally preferred to keep the .orig.tar.gz as it is and try to persuade upstream to drop it
<Adri2000> ok, and if I remove it from the tarball, I just have to specify it in the changelog?
<_Enchained> Adri2000: c'est pt quel appli ?
<_Enchained> pour*
<Adri2000> _Enchained: english! ;) (c'est une question gnrale)
<_Enchained> ok (sorry)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-07
<chantra> hi, browsing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing/Tips?action=show&redirect=ReviewingTips
<chantra> I landed on that page: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Revu1Building
<chantra> it seems it needs some upgrade :)
<chantra> so if there is any admin around...
<chantra> trac-admin /srv/revu-trac upgrade
<stinkydave> Hello all
<stinkydave> I was wondering if anyone could give some advice on a sound card, I am building a machine for a friend who is a musician. He wants to be able to record and produce music on the computer. I know what programs to use, I just need advice on what kind of sound card to get for the project. He is on a budget so a decent priced one would be prefferable
<crimsun> get an M-Audio Delta 1010LT
<crimsun> why are you asking in here, btw?
<crimsun> this is better suited in #alsa or #ubuntustudio
<stinkydave> I just did a quick search on the internet, should of read into it more
<stinkydave> thanks anyway
<crimsun> err, tabs gone from apps? I hope they're joking...
<Burgwork> it is Keybuk and seb128, of course they are
<crimsun> I figured, but a lot of context is lost in text
<Burgwork> yes, yes it is
<jdong> Can a MOTU take a look at bug 42269 and the fixed source packages I've linked to on the report?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "Does not create a tray icon" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42269
<Fujitsu> Evenign jdong.
<jdong> :D
* Fujitsu looks.
<jdong> oh look, right on cue :D
* Fujitsu screams.
<Fujitsu> Evil Java, and no debdiff.
<Fujitsu> (ie. attach a debdiff, please)
<jdong> Fujitsu: how the heck do I attach a debdiff for a fix to an orig.tar.gz, and debdiff .png files?
<Fujitsu> M..
<Fujitsu> Good point.
<jdong> Fujitsu: all I did was refreshed *.png in orig.tar.gz with ones from Azureus's source package
<Fujitsu> A debdiff will still work, just... not for the images, I guess.
* Fujitsu does it himself after lunch.
<jdong> Fujitsu: the bug was that the orig.tar.gz has corrupted *.png files....
<Fujitsu> Fun.
<Fujitsu> So it's just the .pngs that have been changed?
<jdong> right
<jdong> so a debdiff would be blank
<jdong> except for my bumped changelog entry :D
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach@
<dholbach> Fujitsu: thanks for the confidence
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> but somebody else could have just taken it to the wiki themselves already
<dholbach> so that's not blocked on me
<Fujitsu> Of course, but doko said you were doing it :P
<dholbach> yeah, I read it
<Fujitsu> You read it before you joined?
<dholbach> yes, on his screen
<dholbach> we're at UDS and busy with stuff
<Fujitsu> Ah, of course.
<Fujitsu> How's UDS going?
<dholbach> busy :)
<dholbach> but good, very good
<Fujitsu> Has beryl-by-default been scheduled yet? I must get a SIP account before then...
* lophyte wishes he was there
<dholbach> I'm not sure
<dholbach> people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv should have it in a bit
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh
<dholbach> ok, they kick me out the room - i'll write it up and put it on the 'official' SRU page
<dholbach> see you tomorrow
<dholbach> or something *wave*
<Fujitsu> jdong: (back from lunch) That package isn't workable. The orig.tar.gz has to have a new version, like 2.5.0.0.ubuntu1 or something.
<jdong> Fujitsu: sorry, I'm no packaging expert by any measure....
<jdong> can you fix it pretty please?
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<jdong> thank you :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sorry?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you dont change the .orig.tar.gz version, i'm hoping.  and certainly not to 2.5.0.0.ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What?
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You do if there are changes in the orig.tar.gz.
<Hobbsee> and you're changing that because?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: There are corrupt binaries in the .orig.tar.gz, and you can't fix those in the .diff.gz.
<Fujitsu> (and jdong is changing that, not me :P)
<Hobbsee> oh right.  i thought you could.  remove them in the clean rule, and add the new ones in via a patch.  but if they're binaries..
<Hobbsee> good point
<Fujitsu> And can you recommend a better versioning than tacking ubuntu1 on the end?
<jdong> Fujitsu, Hobbsee.... so there's no way to correct when a maintainer goofs an orig.tar.gz other than to bump the version?
<minghua> you can, it's just going to be really REALLY ugly
<Fujitsu> minghua: Not tooo ugly.
<Hobbsee> minghua: true.  depends what the binary is, i guess
<Hobbsee> oh this is the azureus one?
<Fujitsu> Just, uuencode them, maybe... But that's messy.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Correct.
<minghua> Fujitsu: yeah that's what I was thinking
<Fujitsu> I've seen that done in something, but it's messy.
* Hobbsee suspects dpkg-buildpackage will whinge irrecovably if you do anything else
<minghua> I would go for a new .orig.tar.gz
<Fujitsu> minghua: As would I.
<jdong> 2.5.0.0.1? :d
<Hobbsee> bleh, fine then :)
<jdong> lol
<minghua> but we probably want to talk with upstream/debian first
<Fujitsu> It'd be 2.5.0.0ubuntu1, I think... But what minghua said: we should talk to Debian first.
<jdong> minghua: why would we talk to debian? They have a valid orig.tar.gz :D
<Fujitsu> jdong: Only ours is affected?
<jdong> Fujitsu: correct
<minghua> so that we don't accidentally step on their foot for next release
<jdong> Fujitsu: our azureus packages are different than Debian's
<Fujitsu> How the fsck did that happen, jdong?
<jdong> Fujitsu: ask doko?
<jdong> it ain't my package
<jdong> I'm just trying to fix it
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see a -0ubuntu2, oops.
<Hobbsee> oh yes, i remember looking to merge azureus
<Fujitsu> minghua: How could we step on their feet? If we take ubuntu1 on the end, it can't interfere with a version they make in the future...
<minghua> jdong: I see.  then no need to talk to debian, I suppose.  pardon me for jumping in the discussion in the middle :-)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That was silly of you.
<jdong> minghua: no problem
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  actually, it wasnt too bad.  but it didnt build.  and involved lots of guess work
<jdong> I remember trying to spend a few hours on packaging azureus too
<jdong> I didn't even git it to build
* Fujitsu renames the upstream tarball to azureus_2.5.0.0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz, changes the version in the changelog appropriately, and tests.
<minghua> Fujitsu: what if upstream has a 2.5.0.0.1?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Then that is > 2.5.0.0ubuntu1.
<jdong> so now we have a 2.5.0.0ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 package?
<LaserJock> hi guys
<LaserJock> and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya LaserJock.  :)
<LaserJock> sounds like there will be some exciting things in MOTU land
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You may recall we have a linsmith startup-crasher in Edgy, which upstream released a fix for yesterday. I've backported the fix, it all works fine... Shall I go ahead with SRU stuff?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: eg?
<Fujitsu> jdong: It seems that new tarball actually fixes things, which is good.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: how so?
<LaserJock> having a MOTU leadership team (Council Greyskull?)
<Hobbsee> ah, nice :)
<minghua> Fujitsu: you are right about the version, go ahead then
<jdong> Fujitsu: I wouldn't have spent time uploading it somewhere if it didn't do anything :D
<jdong> heh, I don't really use Azureus anymore anyway
<jdong> but some people are really crazy about it
<minghua> (although I still worry they may release 2.5.0.0take2 or something, but I am just paranoid :-)
<jdong> GCJ makes it quirky
<jdong> minghua: they have never done that yet
<LaserJock> perhaps having core-devs reviewing stuff more
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: right, yep
<jdong> minghua: and you can't do that with a bittorrent client.... you can't represent that version with the protocol :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: `stuff'?
<Fujitsu> What a nice version number:
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, Mark wants to sort of get communication between core-dev and MOTu  better
<Fujitsu> azureus 2.5.0.0ubuntu1-0ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What stuff will they be reviewing, though?
<LaserJock> so the idea would be that core-devs would include reviewing MOTU patches for Main packages
<LaserJock> in their day-to-day activity
<plugwash> Fujitsu can't you just make it 2.5.0.0ubuntu1-1 ?
<LaserJock> that way the core-devs see what's going on
<Fujitsu> plugwash: No, it has to be -0ubuntu1 because it's not in Debian.
<minghua> core-devs had better take good care of main packages first, like tetex :-(
<LaserJock> and we get a chance to learn from some really knowledgeable people
<LaserJock> well, also on that front
<Fujitsu> Poor tetex :(
<LaserJock> it looks like Edubuntu will be expanding
<plugwash> Fujitsu since you've messed arround with the version number of the upstream tarball i don't see how the debian conflict avoidence versioning is any help anymore
<LaserJock> we'll be including some science software in Main
<Fujitsu> plugwash: That's beside the point. Policy says we HAVE to use -0ubuntu1.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: OK, so we need you to be -core-dev. Simple.
<LaserJock> yep
* Hobbsee goes off to uni, but takes the logs
<Hobbsee> well, off to the lab
<LaserJock> but that means that science packages might get a little more attention
<Fujitsu> That will be good, although I can imagine you'd be spending more of your time on some other stuff (like Edubuntu)
<LaserJock> there has been a lot of community and governance talk
<Fujitsu> Any news on the new CC/TB?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, one of my tasks as a core-dev in Edubuntu would be munitioning Main science packages
<LaserJock> bah, stupid spell check
<Fujitsu> Hahah
<LaserJock> *maintaining
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, Mark is looking for nominations
<bddebian> +1 from me :-)
<LaserJock> he'll pick some and then in the case of TB all devs will vote
<LaserJock> and in the case of CC members will vote (somehow)
<Fujitsu> Member poll on LP, maybe.
<LaserJock> well, there was discussion of perhaps using different voting schemes
<LaserJock> anyway, that'll get worked out
<Fujitsu> Presumably.
<LaserJock> but basically all of the membership approval will be shifted away from CC/TB
<LaserJock> so MOTU will be able to approve Ubuntu members
<LaserJock> and new MOTUs
<Fujitsu> Well, that will be interesting.
* Fujitsu prods geser with a membership stick.
<LaserJock> hopefully as the week gets further along well get more concrete stuff
<Fujitsu> Goodo...
<Fujitsu> Sounds like there are some biiig changes happening.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> although nothing that I'd say is radical
<LaserJock> mostly just formalizing things that have existed to some degree already
<LaserJock> but not documented or maybe widely understood
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Which specs have you been to?
<LaserJock> too many to remember
<lophyte> hey guys
<LaserJock> several Edubuntu ones naturally
<LaserJock> Edubuntu-on-2-cds
<Fujitsu> Hi lophyte.
<LaserJock> TB
<LaserJock> new developers
<LaserJock> the new-developers one was the last one I went to
<Fujitsu> What was decided in the new-developers one? Just that they should be approved by their respective groups, not the TB?
<lophyte> I still wish I was down there.. boo-urns
<LaserJock> mdz did a rather wonderful job of outlining exactly what we expect a MOTU and core dev to be
<Fujitsu> Is there a recording/transcript around?
<LaserJock> just a sec
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: gah, my internet is weird, I think it is wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers or something like that
<Fujitsu> Thanks..
<Fujitsu> They actually update the specs?
<TheMuso> There is no spec on the wiki for New Developers yet.
<LaserJock> well the wiki page ^^ is  basically the spec page
<LaserJock> more or less defining what we want to see in prospective devs
<Fujitsu> We can upload to -proposed without prior approval, right?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I think that's the way I read the policy
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Looks like it.
<zakame> hello all
<Hobbsee> heya
<Fujitsu> Hi zakame.
<Hobbsee> interesting @ the membership management
<Fujitsu> What, MOTUs being able to approve them?
<Hobbsee> yeah
* Hobbsee wonders if all MOTU's actually want to do that.  what would the quorum be?
<Hobbsee> being part of the kcc myself, i cant see people actually wanting to do it terribly much.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What spec is that?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MembershipManagement
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<StevenK> I can't see that being a good thing, personally.
<StevenK> I would rather justify my skills and needs to a seperate third party and have them sign off on it.
<Fujitsu> It's understandable that they want to alleviate load on the CC.
<TheMuso> Where is motu approval mentioned?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, well.   we've seen that lately
<StevenK> Each team sorting itself out is a bit messy.
<StevenK> To be honest, I'm quite interested to see what happens with the tech-board and new-developers.
<Hobbsee> yes, what isnt mentioned there is that people who are good at coding arent necessarily good at the whole management/community side of things.  well, not as good - adn we dont want to find that what's happened to the CC happens to the MOTU's
<TheMuso> StevenK: Me too.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Same... I'd really like recordings of those sessions :(
<StevenK> I'm interested in the outcome, not the discussion.
<Hobbsee> i think there are some recordings - just not public yet
<TheMuso> Well Ng in #udsmtv said that the voip stuff is being recorded.
<Fujitsu> Well, the discussion will hint about the outcome before it actually happens :P
<Hobbsee> true
<TheMuso> But someone will have to pull them a part and make them available.
* StevenK ponders getting up for the motu spec.
<Fujitsu> When is it?
<StevenK> 10am PST
<Hobbsee> whihc is when, local?
<Fujitsu> That's -5?
<StevenK> 5am
<crimsun> -8
<Hobbsee> ouch
<Hobbsee> i'll pass
* Hobbsee doesnt do 5am, unless it's something like a plane trip
<StevenK> Heh
* Fujitsu doesn't do 5am unless it's something that it's important to be at, like a TB meeting that I'm up for grilling at, and it's not school that day.
<Hobbsee> yeah, well
<TheMuso> Is tomorrow's schedule out already?
<StevenK> Yup.
<TheMuso> Wow.
<TheMuso> THey're actually planning ahead this time.
* Hobbsee has school, or uni, or both, most, if not all days of the week :P  hence the lack of early starts
<Hobbsee> wow, nice
<TheMuso> Ok, I'm getting up at 4AM.
<TheMuso> There is a spec I wanna join in on.
<StevenK> Which?
<TheMuso> Orca laptop support/.
<Hobbsee> devfarm?
<Hobbsee> ah
* Fujitsu is disappointed to not see an open-launchpad spec slipped in at the last minute.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: haha
<joejaxx> i whould do it :P
<Mez> anyone here who was in the MOTU BoF today ?
* Mez -> bed
<Hobbsee> bug #64841
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64841 in wlassistant "wireless assisant does not connect in edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64841
<fernando> morning all
<LaserJock> hi fernando
<Hobbsee> !info wlassistant edgy
<ubotu> wlassistant: User friendly KDE frontend for wireless network connection. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.5-0ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 115 kB, installed size 572 kB
<jlow> anyone been having any problems with Pac Digital Qmaster Sata cards
<bddebian> Heya gang
<minghua> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello minghua
<minghua> bddebian: I actually have a question for you
<bddebian> Uh oh
<minghua> bddebian: I am working on sending our .desktop files to debian
<minghua> (if you've seen my mail to ubuntu-science)
<bddebian> Don't ask me, I get in trouble for that :-)
<minghua> bddebian: I noticed most of uploads are from you
<minghua> bddebian: heh.  what kind of trouble exactly?  you might want me to avoid those troubles
<bddebian> minghua: All kidding aside, seb128 suggests sending them upstream instead of to Debian where possible
<minghua> bddebian: but my real question is: have you send any of them to debian/upstream already?
<minghua> bddebian: I hardly know any of the upstream...
<bddebian> Yes, just about any I have added I have tried to send either upstream or to Debian
<minghua> I see
<bddebian> At least for Edgy
<minghua> bddebian: is there a track record somewhere?
<bddebian> I wasn't as good about it with Dapper :-(
<minghua> I probably should leave desktop files alone when sending patches to Debian, then
<bddebian> minghua: My personal belief is better to have an unstranslated .desktop than none but I was voted down on that :-(
<minghua> Hmm, yes, another point to consider
* Q-FUNK is amazed at how much LESS resources icewm-session takes compaed to gnome-session, even wth g-s-d and nautilus running.
* Q-FUNK is thus running Ubuntu98 on his desktop
<jonh_wendell> Hi. Who cares about octplot? there is a serious bug in package shipped with edgy. Bug 65398
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65398 in octplot "[UNMETDEPS]  octplot has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65398
<geser> jonh_wendell: someone needs to check if a rebuild fixes it and then go through the motu-sru process to the fix included into edgy
<jonh_wendell> geser: i guess just a little change in its dependency solves the problem...
<geser> if the package get rebuild it will pick up the current dependencies
<jonh_wendell> geser: any idea when someone will get this job? :)
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> feisty open ?
<geser> jonh_wendell: I've just put octplot into my pbuilder
<jonh_wendell> geser: pardon me, but what does your pbuilder mean?
<geser> pbuilder is chroot environment used for (re-)building packages
<jonh_wendell> geser: do you think that corrected package will be in edgy-updates?
<geser> as the current package is uninstallable the chances are quite good to get it into edgy-updates
<bettsp> I'm gonna be a total n00b, but I'd like to start getting involved in maintaining packages in Ubuntu; I've been reading the stuff online on the wiki, but where do I initially begin?
<jonh_wendell> geser: great!
<bettsp> I've done a lot of development work, but not much in maintaining
<geser> jonh_wendell: a rebuild seems to fix it
<jonh_wendell> geser: did you see the bug i've opened? bug 70750
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70750 in octplot "New version from debian. Please sync." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70750
<geser> yes, but a new version won't make it into edgy-updates
<jonh_wendell> geser: ok, no problem! thanks
<geser> bettsp: currently is everyone waiting till feisty gets open
<geser> then the merging fun starts
<jonh_wendell> geser: just more q question: When will it released in edgy-updates? tomorrow? :)
<geser> definitely not
<geser> first I need to file a bug for a sru approval
<geser> if it gets accepted then a package can be uploaded to edgy-proposed where it will be tested
<geser> and then it depends how long it takes to get 5 ACKs for the fixed package (but at least 7 ways)
<geser> in total I would estimate 2-3 weeks till it hits edgy-updates (if everything works as it should)
<jonh_wendell> uau
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<jonh_wendell> geser: thanks a lot. i'm going to tell that to people here
<Mez> is feisty actually open now ?
<luckyone> can we get folding@home added to our repos please?
<ChaosFan> wg 39
<Mez> FYI: those in the MOTU BoF, please speak up the line quality is awful
<CarlFK> what is the Self Appointed Benevolent Dictator like acronym?
<psusi> sabdafl?
<bddebian> SABDAFL
<CarlFK> A for life...  what is the a?
* psusi has no idea what it is short for
<bddebian> CarlFK: I was just wondering that myself
<bddebian> Appointed?
<CarlFK> could be ...
<bddebian> Nah, seems redundant
<Plug> it is
<Plug> sabdfl
<Plug> (not sabdafl).
<bddebian> Ah yes
<giskard> bddebian: and AFL?
<giskard> ehrr only fl
<geser> what is the next version after 0.3.5-2ubuntu1 suitable for edgy-proposed?
<crimsun> 0.3.5-2ubuntu1.1
<geser> I'm preparing a debdiff for a sru (to be filed). which bug reports should be mentioned in the debdiff? only the one which is fixed or also the one for the sru?
<crimsun> both bug reports.
<geser> thanks
<hub> bhale: are you on crack?
<bhale> hub: hah?
<hub> bhale: didn't you just write this: http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2006/11/07/474-webkit-and-gnome#c2382
<bhale> I did
<hub> bhale: then you are a complete troll
<bhale> I am genuinely curious as to howit makes sense
<hub> reusing *free software* for *free software*
<hub> ie KHTML in Gnome by way of WebKit?
<hub> you are just a troll
<bhale> I didnt say "free software" once
<hub> bhale: you say "proponent of MacOS X"
<bhale> really my comment related more to your comments about mono than anything to do with webkit
<hub> bhale: then why do you post here? to look like a fool?
<Q-FUNK> arf
<crimsun> can you guys please take the vitrolics to msg or something?
<lotusleaf> I like burritos
<hub> crimsun: I'll just shut up
<hub> crimsun: but FYI I just posted a link above to explain
<LaserJock> \o/
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<TheMuso> I guess its lunch time for everyone over there atm
<StevenK> TheMuso: Sounds about right.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Heya!
<StevenK> TheMuso: Hey.
<LaserJock> uggg, what a day
<StevenK> TheMuso: Did you end up getting up at 4am?
<LaserJock> I thought my boss was going to kill me this morning
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yep, for two specs that I was glad I attended.
<StevenK> Nice.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: which ones?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Both the Orca specs.
<StevenK> TheMuso: How was it?
<TheMuso> Orca Laptop support, and Orca PulseAudio.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Good. The laptop support one was a great session.
<StevenK> TheMuso: You could hear everything? What I mean was, what was the setup?
<TheMuso> VOIP with a few people in the room, and three of us on VOIP.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you here?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yep.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: check this out from a spec "The MOTUScience team will compile list of educational apps suitable for universities. These apps will move to main and on the add-on CD."
<Fujitsu> Eek.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I might need your brain for some of that :-)
<Fujitsu> Has an approximate number been specified? Or a size?
* Q-FUNK feels like putting together an IceBuntu distro together for Feisty
<Q-FUNK> hm.  redundancy r us.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: no, we just need to be aware that they will be going into Main
<LaserJock> so we'll want a tight set
<Fujitsu> OK... So you'd better hurry up with your -core-dev application :P
<LaserJock> just the most best
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hehe, well I had to create a reason for them to make me one ;-)
<Fujitsu> True.
<LaserJock> this is a preliminary spec for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but I think it'll get approved
* Fujitsu thinks what sort of stuff could be suitable for universities.
<LaserJock> high school and universities if we can
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> in essence all grade levels
<LaserJock> but the hard ones will be high school and uni
<LaserJock> as there is a lot more out there and a lot more to cover
<Fujitsu> maxima, perhaps?
<Fujitsu> There's tooo many packages to choose from :S
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well, maxima did seem like a good choice
<LaserJock> ghemical is great for chemistry
<Fujitsu> I haven't done much with the chemistry stuff.
<LaserJock> well, I can handle that one I think ;-)
<LaserJock> stellarium would be very cool for astronomy
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that's very nice.
<LaserJock> but since space was a problem it would never go on a single-cd version
<LaserJock> it's a rather large package because of the data
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<LaserJock> man, I have such a headache today
<LaserJock> I left the UDS at 6:00pm
<Fujitsu> :(
<LaserJock> left Mt. View at 9:00pm
<LaserJock> drove ~450 km and got home at around 1:00am
<Fujitsu> Erm...
<Fujitsu> You drove home!?
<LaserJock> worked on presentation for today until 5:00am
<LaserJock> went to bed
<bhale> LaserJock: wasnt fun?
<bhale> LaserJock: had to get out?
<LaserJock> got up at 8:30am
<LaserJock> worked on presentation (will my boss was upset at me) until 12:00
<LaserJock> and and just got back from that
<LaserJock> bhale: it was loads of fun
<LaserJock> I just had a departmental presentation to do today
<bhale> a laser?
<LaserJock> and I actually wrote it the hour before I gave it
<LaserJock> while my boss was all irritated with me
<bhale> i wrote a talk the morning of a conference
<LaserJock> I suppose I should have told him I was going to UDS ;-)
<bhale> it worked out ok
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I'm totally out of it and have a headache
<LaserJock> and I have to talk with my boss again in 1.5 hr
<LaserJock> what a day
<LaserJock> oh, then I've got to go vote
<LaserJock> I keep forgetting
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That bug about LyX's menus using ISO-8859-1 rather than UTF-8 has quite a number of duplicates these days :(
<LaserJock> bah
<Fujitsu> Ooh, I like bug #55008!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55008 in xcircuit "POT files not available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55008
* lupine_85 wonders if the ubuntu devs could be persuaded to put the amd64 edgy kernel into the 32bit repos, with a special name
* plugwash guesses that its too late for a change like that in edgy
<lupine_85> yeah, i guess. i'm using a 64bit arch kernel atm
<LaserJock> every added kernel package causes lot of maintaince
<lupine_85> they just got rid of a load :p
<zul> very very late
<lupine_85> I bet not very many people are doing it, though
<lupine_85> everyone I spoke to about it was of the opinion it would b0rken my install
<LaserJock> hi zul
<Fujitsu> This VoIP setup isn't working very well :(
<zul> hey LaserJock why arent you here?
<LaserJock> I left
<zul> ah
<LaserJock> I had a presentation today
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<zul> coming back?
<LaserJock> ajmitch!
<LaserJock> zul: sadly no
<Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hello Fujitsu
<LaserJock> how did MOTU specing go?
<zul> LaserJock: that sucks...good i think
<ajmitch> it's gone fairly well, talked more about the leadership team of some sort
<LaserJock> good, good
<ajmitch> & processes for accepting new MOTUs
<LaserJock> anything written down yet?
<LaserJock> I'd like to be a tiny bit involved if I can
<ajmitch> not much written down yt, I think
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> heh, I see mdz edited wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-08
<fbond> crimsun, BTW usbdevfs was not enabled by default in edgy
<fbond> so users of midisport-firmware must mount it to use their devices
<fbond> not sure if I should file a bug ... ?
<lastnode> crimsun, ping
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<crimsun> fbond: no, not a bug
<crimsun> gah.
<LaserJock> hmm, does anybody know if network manager has issues with reporting signal strength?
<Burgundavia> which chipset?
* TheMuso is reminded to set up WPA on his notebook.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: Atheros R5212
<LaserJock> my internet seems a bit slow
<Burgundavia> madwifi has known issues, LaserJock
<Burgundavia> it reports bogus numbers
<LaserJock> but the router is not very far away at all
<crimsun> have you explicitly set it to 11M?
<Burgundavia> it is the driver
<LaserJock> when I was just using the gnome thingy it reported large number
<crimsun> "the gnome thingy" being...?
<LaserJock> the applet
<Burgundavia> the default one?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out if it's n-m
<LaserJock> or if my wireless needs to be reset or something
<crimsun> if it's edgy, and it's madwifi*, then it's edgy.
<crimsun> for many people, madwifi* is broken in 2.6.17
<LaserJock> the gnome applet "Network Monitor" reports 79% for the signal strength
<LaserJock> n-m show 35%
<Burgundavia> gnome applet may be special casing the madwifi driver
<Fujitsu> Iiiinteresting.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What does iwconfig say?
<Burgundavia> I know danw has refused patches to special case the madwifi driver in nm
<minghua> maybe n-m just uses 5-base or something
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh geeze, what am I looking for?
<Fujitsu> Link Quality=72/100
<LaserJock> oh yeah, 35/94
<Fujitsu> Erm, out of 94!?
<LaserJock> so that's what n-m is reporting
<Fujitsu> madwifi does seem rather stuffed.
<Burgundavia> the driver lies
<Fujitsu> And GNOME's thingy is special casing.
<LaserJock> ok, well I was just wondering if I was going nuts or something ;-)
<LaserJock> Mt. View was the first time I've really done anything with wireless
<LaserJock> at home I just now the SSID and don't have to mess with anything
<LaserJock> s/now/know//
<LaserJock> I felt rather dumb sitting next to mako
<LaserJock> and I was struggling with n-m
<Fujitsu> That is a side-effect of being around almighty Ubuntu people.
<LaserJock> heh, well he was always dropping his laptop
<LaserJock> so at least I didn't pick that habit up
<crimsun> you won't be able to tell until your fifth macbook anyhow.
<crimsun> by that point we'll all be mocking you anyhow.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I don't know if I'll be getting a macbook anytime soon
<LaserJock> I did get a anti-drm sticker from mako at that BOF though
<Fujitsu> Was anybody there running {Windows,OS X,[insert other Linux distributions here] } on their laops?
<LaserJock> so it was worth it ;-)
<Fujitsu> *laptops
<Burgundavia> some OS X I imagine
<Burgundavia> mpt ran it last year
<LaserJock> well, there were certainly dual boots
<LaserJock> the K12LTSP guys were running K12LTSP (no way!)
<Burgundavia> stunning
<LaserJock> the Sun guys had a nice Ubuntu machine
<LaserJock> I wasn't around long enough to see what the ATI and Nvidia people brought ;-)
<LaserJock> I was really amazed by the Sun Looking Glass demo
<LaserJock> I had seen a demo early on
<LaserJock> but never really bothered since it was Java
* Fujitsu waits for the gigantic gcl to upload to dapper-proposed.
<LaserJock> but there were some interesting things they are doing that I think are usable
<LaserJock> the "map a window onto a flag" one was purely crack ;-)
<LaserJock> but things like flipping a window and on the back side you have notes
<Fujitsu> Mm, nice.
<LaserJock> and panoramic views of the desktops seemed more practical
<LaserJock> heh, at the end somebody asked "Does it work on a free Java?" :-)
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<LaserJock> but I don't think I'm quite there yet
<LaserJock> the blingy stuff seems like it has some potential, but I don't really see using it for everyday use yet
<minghua> hmm, so when I close the window do I lose my notes?
<LaserJock> good question
<LaserJock> I imagine they take care of that somehow
<LaserJock> to me it looked more usable then the whole AIGLX/beryl thing I tried
<LaserJock> but in the end I mostly just use terminals and firefox
<LaserJock> I got to see one of the OLPC laptops, Ivan had one
<LaserJock> pretty sweet
<Fujitsu> How was it?
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<LaserJock> green :-)
* Fujitsu notes that 15MB .diff.gzs and 256kbps upstreams don't mix very nicely.
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> Or it might actually be 128kbps at the moment...
<LaserJock> I generally have 128kbps I think
<LaserJock> it really stinks
<Fujitsu> 10Mbps down, 256kbps up... Not nice when you have to upload stuff frequently, but better than most connections here.
<LaserJock> did you guys see the Council Greyskull planet post of mako's
<LaserJock> 10Mbps is cool
<LaserJock> I've only got 1.5
<Fujitsu> 10Mbps isn't so great when you live in Oz.
<Fujitsu> Because the international connection is... pathetic?
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I still don't get the AU/NZ internet situation
<Fujitsu> Basically, any international connectivity sucks.
<Fujitsu> Generally fairly high latency, and slow.
<LaserJock> local stuff is really good though?
<Fujitsu> I always hit my theoretical bandwidth maximum when downloading from Australian mirrors like UWA, so yes.
<minghua> I saw mako's blog post, but had no idea what greyskull is, even after reading the wikipedia article :-(
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well MOTU comes from the He-Man cartoon show
<Fujitsu> Does it?
<LaserJock> Castle Greyskull was a part of that cartoon
<minghua> oh okay, then I have been missing that reference too
<LaserJock> yeah, I suppose it's a cultural reference
<crimsun> Fujitsu: as a codename, yes.
<Fujitsu> Interesting.
<crimsun> we weren't always known as MOTU
<bddebian> "Bye the power of Greyskull..."
<bddebian> "I HAVE THE POWER!!"
<Fujitsu> I've never seen anything else (other the just `Ubuntu developers' or something like that)
* LaserJock puts on some Queen
* Fujitsu puts on some `find somebody to let gcl into dapper-proposed'.
<Fujitsu> Any ideas on who I attack for that?
<LaserJock> what do you need?
<crimsun> probably no one at this point, since everyone's tied up at UDS
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you need an archive admin?
<crimsun> I don't expect any movement on that front until next week
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: the gcl upload is currently `awaiting approval by a distro manager'
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> yes, that might take a bit
<LaserJock> as the distro manager is having to put up with a bunch of people bugging him :-)
<Fujitsu> I suppose so.
<minghua> LaserJock, Fujitsu: heard of Scibuntu?  http://urban.it.hik.se/scibuntu/
<Fujitsu> Eek.
<LaserJock> darn it
<Fujitsu> Sounds bad.
<Burgundavia> very very bad
<Burgundavia> I love bash scripts in the morning
<Fujitsu> What is included
<Fujitsu>  Tools for reading and writing scientific text: [snip] 
<Fujitsu> Acroread.
<Fujitsu> Acroread included... Yuck.
<crimsun> ooh, sweet!
<crimsun> I'll just make them the bug contact for acroread...
* Fujitsu stomps on crimsun and Scibuntu.
<crimsun> please convince them to include flashplugin-nonfree, too, and my life will be complete
<LaserJock> what the... they don't get acroread from the repos
<LaserJock> but by wget'ing from adobe
<minghua> I don't think they have any repo
<LaserJock> well, I *have* to have acroread
* Fujitsu looks at the script, and finds a way that the creator is breaking some international law, thus getting them arrested and destroyed.
<LaserJock> minghua: no, but acroread is in Ubuntu so you don't need to get it from adobe like that
<Fujitsu> Last updated 5 days ago...
<minghua> oh I see what you mean
<LaserJock> now now guys
<crimsun> someone should gently remind them that they are breaking Adobe's EULA.
<LaserJock> we don't need to go off on a rampage... yet ;-)
<Fujitsu> `scibuntu - scientific extensions for Ubuntu 6.04 LTS'
<Fujitsu> Erm, they're trying to install treewiewx... I presume they mean treeviewx, and that's only in Edgy...
<Fujitsu> What crack.
<LaserJock> that reminds me
<LaserJock> I need to talk with the guys wanting to do Biobuntu
<Fujitsu> Are these guys sane?
<minghua> they have -q in apt-get, so maybe there are no error messages for wrong package name
<LaserJock> Scibuntu or Biobuntu?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Biobuntu, we've already ascertained the Scibuntu guy is insane.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: he's not insane
<Fujitsu> Launchpad generates some really nice HTML: <tr class="">
<LaserJock> he's simply a user wanting to help others out
<minghua> apt-get should be patched to not accept -y in non-interactive mode :-)
<LaserJock> we just need to focus such efforts in the right direction
<LaserJock> rather then calling them insane
<Fujitsu> But but but... It's yet another crackful bash script.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I'm more interested in the intent
<LaserJock> rather then the implementation
<LaserJock> we can easily fix (relatively)  the implementation
<LaserJock> the hard part is focusing people's efforts in the right direction
<LaserJock> "rather then work on a hackish script, maybe you can help us set up sane scientific tasks that all Ubuntu users can use"
<Fujitsu> That might be an idea...
<LaserJock> these are the things we'll be trying to do for Edubuntu anyway
<LaserJock> I just wish people would contact us before they launch into these projects
<LaserJock> and put some *buntu all over the web for Google and the forums to pick up on
<Fujitsu> That'd be nice, rather than us finding about them later...
<Fujitsu> If we had nice forum communication, we might be able to find out about these things earlier. :/
<Fujitsu> And get in contact with the authors early on to do things right...
<Burgundavia> *cough* ubuntustudio *cough*
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<LaserJock> I don't think either Scibuntu or Biobuntu were thought of on the forums though
<Fujitsu> Re: [ubuntu-uk]  Project Proposal - ?Biobuntu?
<LaserJock> mhm
<Mez> why is there never the person you want around when you want them
<Mez> lol
<Mez> oh, btw, if anyone wants to review ;)
<LaserJock> Mez: because that would be too easy
<Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3379
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I was talking with joejaxx and _MMA_ at Mt. View
<Burgundavia> excellent
<Burgundavia> and
<Burgundavia> ?
<Fujitsu> Eek... That Biobuntu idea is bad.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: and we were kinda thinking about the idea of having some sort of derivative guidelines
<Burgundavia> that would be good
<LaserJock> maybe a spec or something
<Burgundavia> and a contact for that
<LaserJock> just outlining, this is the way to do it right, these are the roadblocks, etc.
<Burgundavia> somebody to go to and say "I want to deriv ubuntu"
<LaserJock> exactly
<Fujitsu> It would be reeeally nice to have a list of derivatives... And a list of hackish scripts to install crack.. But that's never going to happen.
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
<LaserJock> just a listing of them?
<joejaxx> LaserJock:
<LaserJock> joejaxx: hello
* joejaxx is sync'ing the ubuntu repos to his laptop haha
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello
<LaserJock> heh, have fun with that :-)
<joejaxx> :D
<Fujitsu> Well, I mean... Having a listing of what they are, what they're for, who's running them, etc... So we can keep track of them and advise people if they should be doing it differently.
<joejaxx> i just started so it is on abiword right now
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't think that'd be entirely insane to do :-)
<LaserJock> there are 3 derivative that are working towards being in the Ubuntu repos
<Fujitsu> Which are these?
<LaserJock> I can think of a few scripted ones
<LaserJock> Ichthux, UbuntuStudio, and Fluxbuntu
<minghua> I don't fancy tracking crackful scripts...
<LaserJock> minghua: sure, but it might be better to track then to find out later
<Fujitsu> minghua: It would be a good idea to track them.
<minghua> having a list of derivative distros would be good though
<LaserJock> but then there are derivatives like Guadalinex that is done entirely outside of Ubuntu
<Mez> joejaxx, Seventeen Days later .... "openoffice... still? gah!"
<LaserJock> but aren't hacky
<Fujitsu> Unhacky ones aren't too bad...
<LaserJock> just difficult to keep track of
<lotusleaf> why does gurlchecker depend on libclamav1? So when I compile ClamAV 0.88.6 myself (because 0.88.4 is in the repos) and uninstall 0.88.4 from the repos, gurlchecker must be removed, and when I try to install it again, it wants to install libclamav1 but I don't want that because I've already built 0.88.6 for myself.
<lotusleaf> why does gurlchecker need libclamav1?
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf: I'm sure it has a good reason to.
<LaserJock> I don't know, but it's a dependency
<jdong> configure:  --with-clamav=DIR        use CLAMAV library virii scan (located in directory DIR, if supplied).   default=yes, if present
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thanks, I know it's a dep, but I'm curious as to why it's not just an option
<jdong> ^^ because it's the upstream default in ./configure
<lotusleaf> jdong: so I should build gurlchecker from source?
<LaserJock> lotusleaf: but you should be able to install a 0.88.6 and gurlchecker will be fine
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: very well, thanks =)
<Fujitsu> Wouldn't it be a better idea to use a packaged 0.88.6?
<lotusleaf> jdong: thx for joining & detailing
<jdong> lotusleaf: if you build 0.88.6 using ubuntu/debian packages, it'll still work with the new clamav
<Fujitsu> Or update the 0.88.4 package?
<jdong> in theory :D
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's what I'm saying
<lotusleaf> jdong: no, I haven't tried, I build it from the clamav sources @ sf
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf: Try grabbing the Debian package and building that, it'll likely work properly.
<jdong> lotusleaf: build http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/clamav/clamav_0.88.5-2.dsc
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: roger that, and thanks for your (and other people who) response(ed).
<Fujitsu> jdong: 0.88.6 has been in unstable since the 6th.
<jdong> that contains the security fixes backported from 0.88.6 too
<jdong> Fujitsu: oh, I wasn't aware
<Fujitsu> packages.qa.debian.org is your friend :)
<jdong> oh btw, out of curiousity...
<jdong> is there an "apt-get source" like script that can allow me to specify more channels than apt?
<jdong> i.e. I'd like to be able to choose to fetch a source package from sid OR feisty....
<Fujitsu> jdong: You can use dget and specify the URL to a .dsc, that'll grab and extra things.
<jdong> I guess, yeah
<Fujitsu> *that and
<jdong> then use packages.qa.d.o
<jdong> which is more up to date
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<jdong> thanks
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<lotusleaf> && again, thanks! =)
<LaserJock> jdong: I know what you mean though
<LaserJock> I'd like that too
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Same, it'd be rather useful...
* Fujitsu looks how MDT does its multi-distro apt-get stuff.
<jdong> yeah, I'd rather just say "dget clamav/sid" and not go combing through packages.qa
<jdong> but I'm just being too lazy
<Mez> jdong: plans for prevu ?
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have a CLI that you just give the package name and it gives you Debian and Ubuntu versions
<jdong> Mez: I pushed a rewrite (0.4.1) into dev...
<jdong> Mez: testing it right now, looks good....
<jdong> Mez: I'd like it eventually in universe :D
<Fujitsu> Something like apt-cache madison, but for more than is in sources.list
<LaserJock> exactly
<jdong> Fujitsu: madison-lite?
<Fujitsu> Wouldn't be difficult to write.
<Mez> jdong: I know - :D whichis why I have it in revu
<LaserJock> and then dget in a similar fashion
<Fujitsu> jdong: Seems to require a local mirror.
<Mez> jdong: btw: you should make the branch in ubuntu-backporters so we can all work on it - not just yours
<jdong> Fujitsu: adapt http://pastebin.com/819521
<jdong> :)
<jdong> it just doesn't dget
<jdong> that's the last damn piece of the puzzle
<jdong> Mez: yeah yeah details details :D
<Fujitsu> Nice...
<jdong> Mez: is there any obvious way of moving branches to a new owner that I'm missing, or should I just re-push?
<jdong> Fujitsu: backporters have been using it since Warty :D
<Mez> jdong: launchpad/url/to/branch/+reassign
<jdong> Mez: ah
<jdong> Mez: reassigned
<jdong> Mez: also reassigned debian-dir
<Mez> jdong ... didnt know you;d done that yourself
<jdong> Mez: did what?
<Mez> nvm
<Mez> jdong: btw I have a suggestion
<Mez> in your shell's RC add
<Mez> export DEBFULLNAME="John Dong";
<Mez> export DEBEMAIL="jdong@ubuntu.com"
<Mez> ;0
<jdong> Mez: oh, lovely :)
<Mez> I did notice a lot of jdong@jdong-laptop ;)
<jdong> Mez: yeah :D
<Mez> jdong: surely you dont need to keep bumping the version numbers?
<Mez> well not like that
<jdong> Mez: you know that feeling when you see a bug and want to release a fix for it?
<Mez> then push it to the branch ;)
<crimsun> resist that feeling.
<jdong> lol
<crimsun> killing bugs is good, but it often leads to hasty measures
<Mez> jdong, RE,RO ?
<Mez> jdong, are you actually making these releases proper ?
<LaserJock> crimsun: wise words, teacher
<jdong> Mez: what do you mean?
<Mez> or just saying "ooh, this is a bug fix, lets bump the version number"?
<Mez> jdong, RE,RO = release early, release often
<jdong> Mez: well, how else would you release a bugfix?
<jdong> if you mean is there a deb for each one of those, yes
<jdong> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=125877&package_id=206140
* Mez rolls eyes
<jdong> I've been pushing them to SF for now
<Mez> jdong, just release patches ...
<jdong> Mez: hush you :)
<jdong> yeah but that doesn't install as easily as dpkg -i :)
<Mez> patch -p0 < patch
<Mez> remember you're just using text files
<jdong> yeah, that works, release as a patch against /....
<Mez> and put it this way, If I'm going to be maintaining this in ubuntu, I dont want to have to review and upload a new set of code changes every day ;)
<jdong> well, either way, I'm running out of things to do to prevu :)
<jdong> Mez: I don't think there's much more to come honestly
<jdong> the tool does its job the way it is :)
<jdong> I had one last itch to rewrite it OOP and I just scratched that
<Mez> let me know when you're done and I'll trawl through the debian dir then
<Mez> what else needs doing now
<jdong> I have a version that disregards version constraints on build deps, but if that went into the main program I'd be the next automatix guy :D
<Mez> jdong... what the heck..
<Mez> Wed,  8 Nov 2006 00:28:47 -0500 = * New upstream release
<Mez> Wed,  8 Nov 2006 00:02:50 -0500 = * New upstream release
<jdong> Mez: one last bug slipped out?
<Mez> if you'r releasing a new verison every 25 mins you can get it away from me ? :P
<jdong> Mez: would you rather me leave the bug there for 2 days, have 10 users ask "what does this error mean", then fix it? :D
<Mez> jdong: then send those users a patch
<Mez> or give them instructions on how to get the branch
<jdong> Mez: well, at this point I don't see anything that needs to be done anymore
<jdong> I promise :)
<jdong> I just tested it with 10 packages using all 4 source methods
* Mez cleans stuff up
<crimsun> jdong: are you mad?
<crimsun> (RE: FF 2)
<Fujitsu> Erm...
* Fujitsu chokes.
<joejaxx> fluxbuntu is not a crackful script :\
<crimsun> what's the context for that?
* Mez laughs @ the FF2 thing
<jdong> crimsun: they freakin won't take my no as an answer!
<jdong> :)
<joejaxx> crimsun: someone called it crackful script
<minghua> joejaxx: in this channel?
<joejaxx> i think so
* minghua doesn't remember seeing that
<joejaxx> woohoo i hit the b's
<joejaxx> i had to start it over
* Fujitsu notes a flood of traffic on feisty-changes.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: likely one of mdz, tfheen or kamion who can't sleep and thus flushed the held queue
<Fujitsu> No, it's unfrozen.
<Burgundavia> afaik, the only people that can unfreeze it are in mTV
<Burgundavia> my explanation stands about insomnia
<Fujitsu> Maybe, but it's now unfrozen.
<Fujitsu> Probably :P
<Fujitsu> `I can't sleep. I'm going to unfreeze Feisty.'
<Burgundavia> however, the new epiphany means I am updating tomorrow
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: to feisty already?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Fujitsu> I was planning to do so after midnight tonight.
<Fujitsu> (due to offpeak download allowance being twice as high as on-peak)
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: you funny aussies and your "allowances"
<Burgundavia> three months ago I pulled down 30 gig
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's been unfrozen for a day or two
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: yup.  i dont have that problem - i just have a capped limit
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch: universe is unfrozen too?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: So people just uploaded a gazillion things?
<Fujitsu> Gloubiboulga: The components aren't seperate, they're either all or none.
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: of course, I've uploaded stuff through NEW already as well
<Gloubiboulga> great
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I see libvirt, which means that the virtmanager is soonish?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, people have had piles of stuff waiting to be uploaded, I've got a few
* Fujitsu gets on with some merges, then.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: maybe
* Burgundavia whips ajmitch (faster) :)
* Hobbsee hasnt looked at merges
<Hobbsee> much
* ajmitch tweaks /ignore
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: heh
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: worst way to get me to do something is to nag me about it :)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: are you coming down at all in these last few days?
<Burgundavia> no, sadly not
* Burgundavia is sad
<animimotus> hi
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: worst part is, work is not even busy
<Fujitsu> Hi animimotus.
<animimotus> a stupid question perhaps... why is it there no gnome-latest deposit like kde-latest like on kubuntu.org ?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that's pretty ridiculous
<Hobbsee> animimotus: because each release, ubuntu releases with the latest gnome anyway
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: network-auth spec is up for discussion tomorrow, I talked with mdz to get it scheduled
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: and it is a 5 hour flight. I could leave early tomorrow morning and be there by 11am
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: excellent
<Hobbsee> animimotus: the ubuntu release cycles are centred around gnome release schedules
<ajmitch> anyway, I need to get to bed so I can get up early
<animimotus> Hobbsee, ok so we are sure to have always the latest gnome's development in our system ?
<Burgundavia> animimotus: yes
<Hobbsee> animimotus: yes
<animimotus> life is so good :)
<Burgundavia> yes, we treat you right
<Burgundavia> you develop on GNOME?
<animimotus> Burgundavia, not al all, I'm a simple user
<Burgundavia> ah
<animimotus> I have just notice some bugs on Evolution, I thought it was already declared on Launchpad but the bug is still here til several month now
<Burgundavia> animimotus: evo has the 2nd highest bug count of any part of GNOME, afaik
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: what's the first?
<Burgundavia> gtk or nautilus, I think
<Hobbsee> ah
<Burgundavia> bringing up the stats now
<Burgundavia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.cgi
<Burgundavia> sorry, evo is now #1
<animimotus> it's horrible :o :p the mail pages don't renderer pretty good like in Thunderbird, text sort from boxes and so on
<Burgundavia> mails not rendering is another issue entirely
<Burgundavia> due to the html rendering engine they use
<animimotus> frightened ^^
<Burgundavia> basically, gtkhtml doesn't understand css
<animimotus> Burgundavia, I thought it was the priority because it makes not really serious : the mailbox is the first we can see when we test Gnome for the first time... Newbie should jump out their chair :D
<Burgundavia> evo is bieng worked on
<animimotus> Burgundavia, like Internet Explorer ? :p
<Burgundavia> novell has several people working on it from their Indian office
<Burgundavia> no, there is real working being done
<Burgundavia> but look at those bugs/opened closed numbers
<animimotus> so it a good novel :)
<Burgundavia> the huge numbers are mostly related to GNOME shipping a new crash tool that reports the bug to the gnome bugzilla
<animimotus> sorry, I'm back :)
<Burgundavia> animimotus: did you see my last line, about the huge numbers of bugs?
<animimotus> ctrl + W... lol
<animimotus> erf
<Burgundavia> animimotus: did you see my last line, about the huge bug numbers?
<animimotus> yes I have seen the line, this bugreported can be integrated in Edgy .
<animimotus> bugreporter
<animimotus> ?
<animimotus> mr_pouit, hi dear :p
<mr_pouit> hi animimotus ;)
<animimotus> Burgundavia, it a friend I have, mr_pouit :p
<animimotus> * it's
<Burgundavia> hello
<Burgundavia> sadly I need to sleep
<animimotus> Burgundavia, nice night, thanks for your respons
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, Burgundavia.
<animimotus> well I hope that Novell can always feel free working on Evolution... now they work with (for ?) Microsoft...
<animimotus> I ask myselft if Evolution could be the Outlook killer :\
<fernando> moin all
<crimsun> Gloubiboulga: hi, if you or jani are going to take care of the gxine merge, I've already pushed it to bzr. I'm away for two days.
<Gloubiboulga> crimsun: great, thanks :)
<crimsun> [https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/gxine/ubuntu , that is] 
<crimsun> ->airport
<gnomefreak> are we able to start merging for feisty yet?
<crimsun> yes
<gnomefreak> ok ty i guess nows a good time to try my hand at it again
<tarzeau> where can i find a person who maintains the ubuntu package that i get bug reports about?
<tarzeau> i maintain it in debian, and it works perfect for me, but ubuntu removes files and makes the software not work anymore
<tarzeau> this is really annoying to me, because i have no chance to fix bugs in ubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> tarzeau: which package is it?
<tarzeau> Gloubiboulga: gtamsanalyzer.app
<tarzeau> the bug reporter says there's no binaries in the package
<tarzeau> but there is for me in mine
<tarzeau> guess i'll just tell him to use debian and this url: http://people.debian.org/~daniel//documents/ubuntu.html
<tarzeau> i have no shell account on any ubuntu systems, nor do i know a person i can redirect him to
<Gloubiboulga> strange, because we use your package
<Gloubiboulga> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gtamsanalyzer.app/gtamsanalyzer.app_0.42-3/changelog
<tarzeau> dpkg -L gtamsanalyzer.app | wc -l
<tarzeau> can you tell me what that gives to you?
<Gloubiboulga> sure, let me install it
<tarzeau> then it must be this users problem
<tarzeau> he says he has 0.42-3
<Gloubiboulga> gauvain@joe:~/dev/paquets/pyxfce$ dpkg -L gtamsanalyzer.app | wc -l
<Gloubiboulga> 26
<tarzeau> but wait
<tarzeau> looking at dpkg -L gtamsanalyzer.app , it has no Application folder anymore
<Gloubiboulga> I'm really not familiar with all these .app apps
<tarzeau> Gloubiboulga: that's fine, there really is a problem, i'm checking it
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<tarzeau> yeah -2 had the files, -3 doesn't anymore
<tarzeau> haha i know what's wrong
<tarzeau> my sponsor would tells me how to do things, then i do it, but of course he doesn't check if the changes HE wanted so much would break anything (oh well, i'll fix this)
<tarzeau> sorry to bother
<Gloubiboulga> no problem
<sivang> re motus
<Hobbsee> hey sivang!
* sivang hugs Hobbsee 
<sivang> Hobbsee: how's it going ?
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee hugs sivang back
<Hobbsee> sivang: good, assignments and the like
<sivang> Hobbsee: assignemnets?
<Hobbsee> siu
<Hobbsee> sivang: uni
<Hobbsee> sivang: exams next week
<sivang> Hobbsee: ah :)
<sivang> Hobbsee: good
* sivang wonders who was mario_ that pinged earlier today
<sivang> (on -devel)
<Hobbsee> i've finished the last assignmetn, and am wondering what to do nwo :P
<sivang> heh
<sivang> Hobbsee: wanna help a rocking desktop backup solution ? ;)
<Hobbsee> maybe
<Hobbsee> sivang: i can tell you what files you need to remove for a restore for kde to work :)
<sivang> and get your hands dirty with some cool yet highly readable and understandable python code? :)
<Hobbsee> my python skills arent good
<sivang> Hobbsee: feel free to add this on the wiki page, or else it'll get los t:)
<Hobbsee> however, i'd like a look
<sivang> Hobbsee: please, do, if you have ANY questions, you know I'm more then happy to answer you
<Gloubiboulga> hello sivang
<sivang> hi Gloubiboulga !
<sivang> Gloubiboulga: how you benen doing mate?
<sivang> Gloubiboulga: are you in uds-mtv ?
<Gloubiboulga> sivang: unfortunately no
<Gloubiboulga> sivang: someone on a -fr chan seems interested in hubackup and would know if it will we able to backup /etc at some point
<Gloubiboulga> sivang: are you in uds-mtv by the way ?
<sivang> Gloubiboulga: it would, yes, the fesity+1 goal for is to be able to do systeam area backups
<Hobbsee> sivang: where is this wiki?
<sivang> Hobbsee: wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup?
<sivang> ;-)
<Hobbsee> ah
<Gloubiboulga> sivang: ok, great :)
<sivang> Hobbsee: if you plan to get dirty with PyQT, then you already know that my dear dear friend Jonathan would be exciting to see QT frontend
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> sivang: i know almost *none* of python, so...
<Hobbsee> then again, i do have uni break soon...
<sivang> Hobbsee: python is nothiing to be known :)
<Hobbsee> well, yeah, but still
<sivang> Hobbsee: you just start talking to it and it will flow, trust me ;)
<jsgotangco> hey guys
<sivang> Hobbsee: really, this is not joke
<sivang> Hobbsee: it's like the nicest going language I've put my hands on to
<sivang> hey jsgotangco :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: yes, so i've seen, from the little i've played with it
* Hobbsee is still reading the wiki page
<jsgotangco> python?
<Hobbsee> sivang: found the first bug
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yes
<sivang> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> sivang: "otherwise you could loose " in one of the screenshots - should be "lose"
<Hobbsee> and s/an/a/
<Hobbsee> in that same screenshot
<sivang> Hobbsee: well, sudo apt-get hubackup, see if the error is there as well, if you can't find the error there, then just open a typo bug.
<Hobbsee> sivang: you've not got english as a first language, right?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> i've only got edgy on here, will that do?
<sivang> Hobbsee: no, I have not :)
<Hobbsee> didnt think so
<sivang> Hobbsee: sure! edgy has the latest development in it
<sivang> Hobbsee: but the screenshots were not made by me
<sivang> Hobbsee: so you can't blame me for this :p
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> haha
<sivang> Hobbsee: also, I think I'm far from considering typo bugs to be real bugs yet ! :-p
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yeah, that's true
<Hobbsee> i just noticed them - it's a pet peeve of mine
<Hobbsee> work's terrible with them
<sivang> Hobbsee: it's a good thing you notice them, file respective bugs :) I almost didn't touch any of the widgets since glatzor provided them to me, so most probably the bug is apparent in the software itself.
<Hobbsee> sivang: right
<kiko> hey there
<kiko> ajmitch, can you rescue me from bug 30701 again?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30701 in zodb "python2.4-zodb should depend on python2.4-zopeinterface?" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30701
<Hobbsee> kiko: he's asleep
<xopher> Hi! Could someone tell me how I can sign packages when building with pbuilder? Is there an option I can add to pbuilderrc?
<Adri2000> xopher: you have to sign during the debuild -S (source package)
<xopher> so extending DEBBUILDOPTS="-sa" to DEBBUILDOPTS="-sa --debsign-k user@mail.com" ?
<gnomefreak> xopher: i think i had to do that once. i cant remember if i set it in ~/.pbuilderrc or ~/.gnupg though
<jonh_wendell> geser, what does SRU mean?
<xopher> hmm, ok, what about the DEBSIGN= option?
<geser> (S)table (R)elease (U)pdate
<geser> jonh_wendell: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms for some other used acronyms
<jonh_wendell> geser: if you want, you can put the new .deb for octplot in somewhere so that a friend of mine can test it
<geser> the one for AMD64?
<jonh_wendell> geser: hummm i guess he uses 386...
<geser> I will see I can rebuild it for i386 also
<jonh_wendell> geser: no chance of new version (from debian) enter in edgy-updates, right?
<geser> hard to say, it depends how the MOTU-SRU team decides
<bersace> Hi all !!!!
<geser> as octplot is currently uninstallable in edgy and if the new version works (and the rebuild one not) it might get in
<jonh_wendell> geser: that's great
<bersace> i've just uploaded enblend, with enable image blending in hugin
<bersace> please review
<bersace> oh
<bersace> f***
<bersace> dput automatically upload to ubuntu
<bersace> not revu
<bersace> :|
<bersace> ok
<bersace> i uploaded enblend 2.5 to revu
<bersace> seems its not shown at revu.tauware.de
<bersace> siretart: ping
<siretart> bersace: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<bersace> siretart: ?
<Adri2000> bersace: your package is currently in incoming
<bersace> Adri2000: any url ?
<Adri2000> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/ but it is not anymore
<bersace> got it
<Adri2000> :)
<bersace> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3388
<bersace> oh
<bersace> seems that enblend had already package candidate :\
<bersace> but very old
<ajmitch> morning all
<xerxas> Hi ajmitch
<jsgotangco> hey
<xerxas> fesity is accepting new packages already ?
<jsgotangco> got dist-upgrade itch? heh
<ajmitch> yes, new packages are being accepted
<superm1> ajmitch, did the MOTU/SRU process get defined the last few days?  I remember seeing chatter that it was supposed to be finished over the weekend, but I haven't looked into it yet
<ajmitch> superm1: I believe so, I'm not entirely sure since I'm not in the sru team
<superm1> do you know who was put on it?
<ajmitch> yes, look at https://launchpad.net/people/motu-sru
<xerxas> ajmitch,  so I can start packaging some new stuff
<xerxas> didn't knew about it !
<xerxas> :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi lfittl
<animimotus> test
<siretart> bersace: yes?
<bersace> siretart: i've uploaded another debianisation of enblend
<bersace> i didn't saw it where already uploaded
<bersace> would be nice to have it included universe
<siretart> bersace: yes
<jonh_wendell> geser: should i test the 0.3.5 or 0.3.9 ?
<geser> jonh_wendell: if possible both
<geser> if you can verify that 0.3.5 is broken and 0.3.9 works, the motu-sru team has more reasons to accept it into edgy-updates
<jonh_wendell> geser: ok, i've invited my friend to test both; i'll inform you the results
<jonh_wendell> geser: thanks
<geser> please add the results also to the bug report
<jonh_wendell> geser: ok
<martijn> Hello, I'd like to get my hands dirty building some packages :) I'm trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics, But I have troubles setting up pbuilder.
<martijn> I get "E: debootstrap does not exist, install or change DEBOOTSTRAP option"
<Mez> martijn, sudo apt-get install pbuilder
<martijn> I did that already
<martijn> Oh wait, I didn't install debootstrap :)
<Mez> ;)
<Mez> it should be a dependency I though
<kiko> ei ajmitch
<martijn> Maybe a bug?
<Mez> Depends: debootstrap | cdebootstrap, wget, gcc, debianutils (>= 1.13.1), coreutils (>= 4.5.8-1)
<martijn> Does setting up a pbuilder environment require a lot of downloading? I'm not on a great internet connection
<Mez> martijn, not much - but a bit, as does using it
<Mez> martijn, how did you install pbuildeR?
<martijn> sudo apt-get install pbuilder. I just repeated that command when you mentioned it before, and it reported "pbuilder is already the newest version"
<geser> martijn: the base.tgz has about 80 MB
<martijn> then I did "sudo apt-get install debuilder", just for good measure, and it started installing that.
<martijn> I mean debootstrap
* fdoving suggest cowbuilder (wrapper for pbuilder, it's in the cowdancer package)
<martijn> fdoving: thanks, but I think I'll start by following the Packagingbasics tutorial step by step
<ajmitch> hey kiko
<luisbg> hey ajmitch
<martijn> Mez, I just checked: I had cdebootstrap installed, so that is why it didn't install debootstrap
<kiko> ajmitch!
<kiko> was wondering if I could interest you in bug 30701
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30701 in zodb "python2.4-zodb should depend on python2.4-zopeinterface?" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30701
<martijn> question: after pbuilder finished, the result is in base.tgz, right? Can I copy this file around between systems so I don't have to download everything again?
<amarillion> If I want to get a package into REVU, does it matter for which ubuntu version I build it? Only feisty, or also edgy/dapper?
<Gloubiboulga> it needs to be built for feisty
<Zdra> is universe open for upload in feisty ?
<Adri2000> Zdra: yes
<LaserJock> I don't think so yet
<LaserJock> it is?
<LaserJock> hmm, could be, I hadn't noticed
<Adri2000> I think yes, Gloubiboulga have just uploaded a package in universe for me
<LaserJock> it's kinda pointless at the moment, IMO
* Zdra wants telepathy updates :)
<LaserJock> Zdra: what do you mean?
<Zdra> now that universe is open we can upload new telepathy-* updates :)
<LaserJock> sure, but I don't think it's of much use right now
<LaserJock> I don't know if the tool chain is stable yet
<Zdra> LaserJock: main has many uploads now so I guess the toolchain is ok ...
<LaserJock> well
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/brasero/0.5.0-0ubuntu1 < that's universe :)
<LaserJock> Adri2000: ah, I did see that one roll by today
<LaserJock> I'm just waiting until after the UDS is over
<LaserJock> the archive admins are so very busy right now I don't want to put any load on them
<amarillion> question: after pbuilder finished, the result is in base.tgz, right? Can I copy this file around between systems so I don't have to download everything again?
<geser> yes
<LaserJock> well, the base.tgz is the pbuilder
<amarillion> ok great.
<amarillion> For me, it takes quite a while to set up.
<LaserJock> yep
<amarillion> It's running for over an hour now
<LaserJock> it's making a minimal Ubuntu install so it can take a while
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<LaserJock> hi joejaxx
<amarillion> I'm going to try to package a few allegro plugins. I think they will make useful packages.
<joejaxx> i hope you all are doing well
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello
<LaserJock> joejaxx: how's the BOFs today?
<joejaxx> they are well
<amarillion> Allegro is a game programming library
<joejaxx> i just came from the ubuntustudio bof
<LaserJock> joejaxx: there was one scheduled?
<LaserJock> cool
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> 10am
<joejaxx> well the mirror stopped at kdenetworkconf
<joejaxx> failed:Unkown command.
<kiko> hey joejaxx, got my mail?
* joejaxx checks email
<joejaxx> kiko: i might have i have to go through the 63 new emails i just received
<joejaxx> kiko: yes i have
<LaserJock> argg, there's a MOTU BOF right now?
<joejaxx> kiko: thank you :)
<kiko> joejaxx, good!
<joejaxx> kiko: :D
<giskard> Zdra: i'm doing it right now
<LaserJock> crappy
<LaserJock> Scibuntu hit the forums
<kiko> the forums are merciless
<zul> ubuntu science?
<LaserJock> zul: it's a nifty little script that just does a bit apt-get install ...
<LaserJock> plus install acroread straight from Adobe
<LaserJock> and 1 other app that I have no idea what it is
<fernando> hi joejaxx
<zul> cool...lunch time
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Our forums?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ubuntuforums.org
<LaserJock> Education and Science subforum
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I just found the thread :(
<LaserJock> I'm writing a reply right now
<Fujitsu> Oh god.
<Fujitsu> Somebody suggested adding it to the wiki.
<Fujitsu> We're doomed now.
<Fujitsu> How nice of it to break Beryl.
<Fujitsu> It's crack vs. crack!
<bhale> what is the "reaction to the burn effect"
<bhale> that whiprush just blogged
<gnomefreak> what broke beryl?
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: That Scibuntu script.
<LaserJock> scibuntu
<Fujitsu> Grrreat. Somebody complaining that texmacs won't install, because they've compiled emacs from CVS.
<gnomefreak> i didnt know there was one
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Neither did we until yesterday.
<LaserJock> well, it looks like it got started on the 4th
<LaserJock> so not a lot of time for people to hear about it ;-)
<Fujitsu> Have you replied to that thread?
<Fujitsu> And should we run off an email to Mr. Scibuntu himself?
<LaserJock> working on it
<LaserJock> trying to figure out how to politely say "This is insane"
* gnomefreak thinks mr science should have wrote the script to where it didnt break things?
<gnomefreak> other than the child education science stuff i didnt know there was science apps. are they all written by 3rd parties?
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Check https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience.
<Fujitsu> That's a list of all science stuff.
<gnomefreak> ty
<Fujitsu> Oops, add a /+packagebugs to the end of that.
<Fujitsu> Also:
<Fujitsu> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/feisty/all.html
<Fujitsu> That's probably a better list.
<LaserJock> ok, replied
<gnomefreak> i hope so theres nothing on the first page after hitting packages :)
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: MOTU Science looks after > 450 science related packages
<gnomefreak> omg
<LaserJock> we could include more
<LaserJock> but we have quite enough as it is
<Fujitsu> We do.
* Fujitsu checks bug stats.
<Fujitsu> 165 open bugs... :(
* Fujitsu mauls TeX, Gnumeric and LyX.
* LaserJock is updating the lists
<giskard> who is working on beryl?
<LaserJock> several people I think
<LaserJock> quinn storm is the main one I think
<Fujitsu> How odd... The BeautifulSoup on my server in the US seems to have decided it wants to return Null for everything.
<giskard> LaserJock: also for Ubuntu? i was wondering if a motu wanted upload it.
<LaserJock> giskard: I believe quinn has been working with several people here
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: excellent :(
<Fujitsu> So I can't run my bug page parser there, to get the statuses etc. of science bugs :(
<giskard> LaserJock: i know that reggaemanu and Amaranth are working on it, but they are not motu afaik :( i'd be happy to sponsor it.
<LaserJock> any motu can sponsor it
<giskard> LaserJock: yes :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: edgy, feisty, and bug list updated
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why not put it on a cron job or three?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: at the moment I'm still transferring it from my box
<LaserJock> and I haven't gotten passwordless ssh
<LaserJock> yet
<LaserJock> I can at least do a cron to create the lists here
<LaserJock> I've just never cronned anything so I just never thing to do it ;-)
<Fujitsu> Why don't you create the lists on tiber, rather than transferring them to there?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: because tiber doesn't have the mdt we need
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> I run a private version in my home directory, in fact.
<LaserJock> hmm, that's a thought
<Fujitsu> You just need to reconfigure it to point to the correct module directory.
<LaserJock> right
<jdong> what are the ramifications of using --use-pdebuild-internal in pdebuild?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-09
<tomveens> hello
<tomveens> I want to make a package of cinelerra, is there someone who can instruct me?
<kiko> doesn't one exist?
<tomveens> not for ubuntu amd64
<LaserJock> tomveens: have you read the ubuntu packaging guide?
<tomveens> yes, and took a lesson a few months ago, but I am really a noob
<tomveens> sorry
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> then it's probably better to start working on it and then if you have a problem then ask here
<LaserJock> it's much easier to deal with specific issues
<tomveens> yes, I know what you mean
<tomveens> first step is making an ubuntu packaging environment isn't it?
<LaserJock> is  there a cinelerra package in Ubuntu at all?
<LaserJock> or Debian
<tomveens> there are 32 bit packages
<tomveens> http://www.kiberpipa.org/~gandalf/ubuntu/README
<tomveens> and this is old
<LaserJock> well, I was meaning in the offical repos
<LaserJock> I don't think there are
<tomveens> not in mine (me is amd64)
<Adri2000> MOTU/Packages/Candidates says that someone is working on it
<LaserJock> yikes, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331072
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 331072 in wnpp "ITP: cinelerra-cvs -- non-linear video editor and compositor for Linux." [Wishlist,Open] 
<tomveens> if that is someone from I believe brazil then he is working on it for a long long time
<LaserJock> is there licensing issues?
<tomveens> not that I know of
<tomveens> I tryed to contact him months ago to figure out what the problems where, but did not get answer
<LaserJock> tomveens: Riccardo Setti?
<tomveens> have to look trought my mail for that, sec!
<LaserJock> oh, Rodrigo Belem is the person on the Candidates page
<kiko> rbelem
<LaserJock> that was some time ago (maybe close to a year)
<tomveens> Rodrigo Belem
<tomveens> was the name
<tomveens> have the mail in front of me
<LaserJock> Riccardo Setti is the person who files the Debian ITP
<tomveens> aha
<LaserJock> and he was just here, giskard is the nick
<tomveens> Riccardo Setti or Rodrigo Belem?
<LaserJock> Riccardo
<LaserJock> I haven't seen rbelem here in quite some time
<tomveens> he did the cinelerra debian packages?
<LaserJock> he filed an "intent to package" (ITP)
<tomveens> okay
<LaserJock> but it looks like  there were issues (the bug link I gave above)
<LaserJock> the ITP is a year old
<tomveens> Rodrigo Belem give a response I see here, and that is that he was out of a job for some time and that is why het packaged
<tomveens> maybe he has a job now?
<tomveens> but there are licence issues to get cinellera packaged in ubuntu?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> I just wondered
<Fujitsu> It has to go in multiverse, I know that.
<LaserJock> that's often the case
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> maybe that was the licensing issue
<LaserJock> anyway, I'd ask Jure Cuhalev (gandalf or whatever) if he has a source package available
<LaserJock> I don't see one on http://www.kiberpipa.org/~gandalf/ubuntu/
<tomveens> http://www.mail-archive.com/cinelerra@skolelinux.no/msg03119.html
<tomveens> here Herman Robak says he wants to do it
<LaserJock> why the heck haven't they approached us?
<tomveens> ???
<LaserJock> they have a big thread on finding a maintainer for Ubuntu packages
<Fujitsu> But they didn't ask us!?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<TheMuso> Is this to do with the forums again? :)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> cinelerra
<tomveens> can I ask you :)
<TheMuso> Ah.
<LaserJock> ask me what? :-)
<tomveens> making an ubuntu amd64 cinelerra package, please? :)
<LaserJock> no :-)
<tomveens> bugger :(
<LaserJock> but having people around to help should be bad
<fernando> i can to try to packaging the cinerella?
<tomveens> that would be great!
<LaserJock> I'd as the cinelerra if you could get their source package and then make sure it's ok and put it on REVU
<LaserJock> s/as/ask/
<tomveens> use cinelerra cv and not the heroinewarrior version
<joejaxx> LaserJock:
<tomveens> from http://cvs.cinelerra.org/
<joejaxx> how can i execute a chroot command from the outside?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: sudo chroot blah echo "blah" > randomfile
<joejaxx> comes up with access denied
<fbond> joejaxx, you can't use the shell redirection
<LaserJock> pbuilder or dchroot or chroot?
<joejaxx> man that stinks :\
<fbond> your shell only has non-root access rights
<joejaxx> LaserJock: chroot
<fbond> do this:
<fbond> sudo chroot sh -c 'echo "blah" > randomfile'
<fbond> (I think)
<joejaxx> ahh yes
<joejaxx> i forgot about the -c flag
<joejaxx> fbond: so that command will be executed as if i was logged into the chroot right?
<fbond> um .. should
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> sudo chroot $LIVEFS sh -c 'echo "deb-src $REPOSURL $RLBASE $REPOSECTION" >> /etc/apt/sources.list'
<joejaxx> right now i have that
* joejaxx goes to try
<fbond> except your variables won't get substituted
<fbond> inside single quotes
<joejaxx> :(
<fbond> do this:
<fbond> sudo chroot $LIVEFS sh -c 'echo "deb-src '"$REPOSURL"' '"$RLBASE"' '"$REPOSECTION"'" >> /etc/apt/sources.list'
<fbond> but that is starting to feel silly :)
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> fbond: what do you mean?
<fbond> all those quotes ! :)
<joejaxx> oh lol
<fbond> it may be better to just inver the quotes:
<joejaxx> \"
<joejaxx> ?
<fbond> sudo chroot $LIVEFS sh -c "echo 'deb-src $REPOSURL $RLBASE $REPOSECTION' >> /etc/apt/sources.list"
<fbond> I _think_ that might work
<joejaxx> oh ok
<fbond> I may be taking this too far, sorry ...
<joejaxx> i will try
<joejaxx> fbond: both of them worked
<joejaxx> both methods
<joejaxx> fbond: thanks i will use the inverse quote method
<fbond> great, you're welcome
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: welcome back
<LaserJock> thanks ;-)
<joejaxx> :)
<jdong> !seen mez
<ubotu> I last saw Mez (n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez) 5h 23m 11s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
<jdong> thank you, ubotu
<jdong> ubotu: I'm lonely. You want to hear a knock-knock joke?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about I'm lonely. You want to hear a knock-knock joke? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jdong> ubotu: knock knock.
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about knock knock. - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jdong> you're no fun
<Fujitsu> Speaking of Mez... Why did I see a changelog entry from him mentioning a backport using prevu?
<Fujitsu> In feisty-changes?
<jdong> Fujitsu: he ran prevu on his source dir and didn't know that prevu used to dch -i?
<jdong> Fujitsu: bug 70930
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70930 in prevu "Prevu'ing a package should revert changelog after" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70930
<pianoboy3333> How do you get checkinstall to use a setup.py?
<LaserJock> pianoboy3333: you don't use checkinstall
<pianoboy3333> LaserJock: ok... I'll build a real deb... :(
<pianoboy3333> How do you get checkinstall to use a setup.py?
<pianoboy3333> wait... I just asked that... nm, sorry
<zul_> checkinstall is fun
<Hobbsee> zul_: checkinstall segfaulting, is, yes
<LaserJock> maybe we should write a wrapper for it :-)
<pianoboy3333> Anyone want a deb of spe 0.8.3.c?
<jdong> pianoboy3333: I'll take a dsc.... :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: perhaps a diff.gz would be more useful
<jdong> Hobbsee: excuuse me for being lazy
* jdong goes and fixes a prevu bug
<Hobbsee> :)
<jdong> kind of helps if prevu doesn't clean out the built debs as "temporary data" :D
* jdong hangs head in shame
<pianoboy3333> jdong: you want one?
<jdong> pianoboy3333: meh, no hurry
<jdong> I'm just a light spe user
<jdong> kind of ironic to use light and spe in the same line though :)
<pianoboy3333> jdong: http://piano.juicemedia.tv/debs
<jdong> ugh, and this is SO pdebuild's fault
<jdong> with --use-internal-pdebuild, it no longer listens to --buildresult
<jdong> and nothing in the documentation said that'd happen :D
<jdong> pianoboy3333: would you happen to know why fonts in the editor aren't antialiased?
<jdong> and if there's a setting for that, someone should be shot
<gnomefreak> if im not a dev for a package does that mean i cant add files to it (debian/rules) if thats all thats standing in way of package and universe/multiverse?
<LaserJock> hmm?
<LaserJock> I mean, we can do whatever we need to
<gnomefreak> im just worried the tar doesnt have the files i need to build it and i really think it should be in repos (frostwire) since i get asked about it a few times a day
<sid_> hi, I have a package which I wish to be added in the ubuntu repos
<sid_> http://mrbayes.csit.fsu.edu/ its here
<sid_> it will be used by many biologists
<LaserJock> cool
<sid_> its GPLed
<tritium> Three cheers for Bayesian inference!
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<LaserJock> sid_: well, I'm sure the MOTU Science team would be interested in that
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> tritium: you should package it ;-)
<tritium> LaserJock: maybe I can.
<sid_> thanks :) I don't know much about packaging
* Mez -> bed
<fernando> what's a unstripped-binary-or-object ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I suppose a binary that hasn't been stripped of debugging symbols
<fernando> LaserJock: how to fix this?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> haven't run across that one before
<fernando> well, the package work =(
<fernando> uploaded mrbayes-3.1.2 to revu
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you know why: E: Couldn't find package linux-dri-modules-2.6.15-27-386
<joejaxx> why there is not a dri module package for 15-27?
<LaserJock> I don't
<joejaxx> anyone else know?
<fernando> to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU ?
<joejaxx> i am probably going to have to downgrade to 15-26
<siretart> fernando: done
<imbrandon> ...
<imbrandon> lastlog imbrandon
<imbrandon> gah
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: need a slash there
<imbrandon> yup lol
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: hows it going
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> wish I was in MTV
<imbrandon> yea , that would be nice if you were
* imbrandon just cant sleep yet, only a few are still awake
<Burgundavia> you are not the only person who has claimed to "miss me". I am in doubt still :)
<imbrandon> nah, it really would be cool
<imbrandon> without you and jdub its not the same hehe
<Burgundavia> now with jdub I agree with you
<imbrandon> :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: go to sleep man
<lifeless> sheesh :)
<lifeless> gnight
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> gnight
<imbrandon> good idea
* imbrandon beds
<imbrandon> lifeless: i had to finiah the draft i did today before the fureur got me tomarrow :)
<imbrandon> finish*
<herzi> can someone please take a look at bug 71054
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71054 in mozilla-thunderbird "Epiphany doesn't open https://" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71054
<herzi> ?
<Fujitsu> herzi: That's a dupe of some bug in Epiphany, but this isn't really the right channel.
<Adri2000> seems that the global sync from debian has started
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: How do you know this?
<Fujitsu> I'm not noticing a flood of mail on feisty-changes...
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/+builds buildds are busy, they are building packages with no ubuntu changes
<Adri2000> and I have a package waiting for building for some hours now :p
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: are you sure these packages directly synced from debian should appear on feisty-changes? (I don't know, just a question)
<Fujitsu> Actually, that's a good point...
<Fujitsu> Normal syncs do, but I'm not sure about the autosync.
* TheMuso notes his two merges.
<TheMuso> I think I have actually done one already.
<Adri2000> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html < all the "outstanding merges" need a human to do the merge?
<sistpoty_uni> hi folks
<fernando> moin all
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Correct. I'm going through all of mine now, and most others should in the near future.
<TheMuso> Adri2000: It is a good idea that you ask someone before you take a merge.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Am I correct in guessing that merge policy is still the same as the end of the merge cycle from edgy?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: and what do the colors mean?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: There's been no change, so I presume so.
<TheMuso> Righto.
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: They are the priorities of the new versions in Debian, red being high priority.
<sistpoty_uni> did merges start already?
<Fujitsu> sistpoty_uni: Most people haven't started, but some have.
<Adri2000> TheMuso: ok, ask the last uploader
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ok
<Fujitsu> And the autosync was turned on about 24 hours ago.
<sistpoty_uni> Fujitsu: ah... so the archives are open now
<Fujitsu> sistpoty_uni: For a few days now
<sistpoty_uni> great :)
<TheMuso> Adri2000: Thats right.
* TheMuso forgets that he needs to create a new pbuilder on this machine.
<StevenK> Heh
<TheMuso> StevenK: Hey there.
<geser> Fujitsu: have you time to upload a merge for me? bug 70422
<Fujitsu> Hi StevenK.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70422 in cddb.bundle "[Feisty] [Merge]  cddb.bundle 0.2-2.2ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70422
<Fujitsu> geser: Of course, if it's sane :P
* StevenK waves.
<fernando> i have uploaded a package to revu. Do I only have to wait now? =)
* StevenK ponders filing an SRU bug.
<Fujitsu> Hey \sh.
* Fujitsu locates requestsync.
<\sh> moins
<\sh> long time no see
<sistpoty_uni> hey \sh
<\sh> hey sistpoty_uni
* StevenK wants to file a sync request. :-/
<StevenK> But packages.d.o hasn't damn well updated.
<Adri2000> fernando: yes, just wait for a reviewer to look at your package
<fernando> Adri2000: thanks
<Adri2000> grab-merge.sh nice
<geser> could someone please ACK the following Sync Requests? bug 70438, bug 70436, bug 70431, bug 70427
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70438 in pantomime1.2 "[Sync Request]  Sync pantomime1.2 (1.2.0~pre2.dfsg-2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70438
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70436 in lusernet.app "[Sync Request]  Sync lusernet.app (0.4.2-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70436
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70431 in gnustep-netclasses "[Sync Request]  Sync gnustep-netclasses  (0.0.20040112.dfsg-0.2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70431
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70427 in gnustep-dl2 "[Sync Request]  Sync gnustep-dl2 (0.10.1-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70427
<Adri2000> geser: all the packages from debian are currently being synced
<geser> those packages have ubuntu changes which can be dropped
<StevenK> If the packages in Ubuntu are unchanged from Debian they will just be pulled in.
* StevenK ponders ignoring wlassistant for the night.
<Adri2000> geser: then it will appear in the merge-o-matic no?
<Adri2000> if it has ubuntu changes
<geser> yes
<geser> these are some of my packages from the merge list
<Adri2000> so I think the bug reports are useless
<geser> why?
<Fujitsu> geser: Uploading cddb.utils.
<Adri2000> the one who will do the merge will see that the ubuntu changes can be dropped
<geser> Fujitsu: thanks
<Adri2000> I'm not sure...
<geser> I was doing the merge
<Adri2000> ok, I understand... it's better to do a sync than doing a merge if there are not anymore ubuntu changes
<geser> but as I'm not a MOTU I need a MOTU to ACK those syncs before they get to the archive admins
* StevenK pokes ftp.d.o with a stick
<Adri2000> geser: ok
<StevenK> Sigh. It's Optarse.
<TheMuso> StevenK: What a surprise.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Indeed. :-)
<StevenK> No wonder I can only download at 6KB/s
* StevenK would honestly prefer a 15 in front of the 6, which is what his DSL can usually do.
* StevenK ponders using the pipe at the office......
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> SOunds like someone along the chain needs to provision more bandwidth or something.
<TheMuso> Or cut the leachers. :p
<StevenK> No, it's packet loss on the routers.
<StevenK> Muahaha, tunneling through to work gives me 120KB/s
<TheMuso> hahaha
<StevenK> Take that, Optus.
<Fujitsu> What's Optus got to do with anything?
<StevenK> They're upstream for Exetel.
<TheMuso> THats interesting, I *THINK* that Optus are also upstream for Westnet, but am not sure.
<StevenK> mtr/traceroute might shed some light.
<TheMuso> StevenK: YOu are trying to get to f.d.o right?
<StevenK> I switched to http.us.d.o, but yeah
<TheMuso> Right.
* Fujitsu prods Soyuz.
<Fujitsu> I uploaded cddb.utils some time ago, still no acception email...
<TheMuso> StevenK: Looks like it does, but you're probably better than me at deciphering these. Want a look?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Sure.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Singtel == Optus, if that helps.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Just a sec. I'll get it on some webspace.
<TheMuso> StevenK: http://www.themuso.id.au/trace.log should do it.
<StevenK> Looks suspiously like my trace.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> How long does it take you to display the f.d.o root dir contents?
<StevenK> TheMuso: 4 seconds
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Same as me.
<TheMuso> pretty much
<StevenK> I think debian/pool/x might be a better test. :-)
<TheMuso> Ok... I am able to pull down a 9MB netboot ISo at full speed.
<TheMuso> Hovering around 161-163
<StevenK> From where?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: nice!
* StevenK idly notes his torrent is getting 60, so the problem may have buggered off.
<TheMuso> StevenK: f.d.o/dists/testing/main/installer-i386/images/netboot/
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Heya!
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Get merging! Universe depends on you!
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: why?
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> I need to manually request syncs of new packages from Debian, right?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> not from sid
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did Soyuz eventually respond?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It did, after 15-20 minutes.
* StevenK ponders filing a sync request manually.
* StevenK kicks packages.d.o until some chewing gum and a huge chunk falls off.
<TheMuso> hahaha
<Hobbsee> haha
<Adri2000> I looked at the frozen-bubble merge and the only ubuntu change (fix in the .desktop) has been integrated in debian
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: In which case you should file a sync request.
<Fujitsu> (after confirming that the Debian package builds properly in a Feisty pbuilder)
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: a sync request you will confirm? :p
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And installs. *slap*
<Fujitsu> StevenK: True.
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Maybe :P
<Adri2000> :)
<StevenK> I also like to confirm that the thing, you know, actually executes before I file a sync request.
<Adri2000> I'll try to build and install it
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Of course.
<geser> Adri2000: frozen-bubble 2 needs libsdl-pango1 which isn't in ubuntu yet
<Adri2000> :-/
<Adri2000> just have to wait the end of the auto syncs
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'd be interested in seeing how fast you can download from merges.u.c
<StevenK> Since I'm getting bugger all KB/s
<TheMuso> StevenK: Give me a file and I'll grab it for testing.
<StevenK> (And yes, bugger all is a number now)
<TheMuso> Well let me know before I start a debootstrap so I can give accurate figures. :)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I'm on Optus Cable, and I get an absolutely dismal speed.
* Fujitsu attempts to get a proper measurement.
<StevenK> http://merges.ubuntu.com/h/hat/hat_2.04.orig.tar.gz
<Fujitsu> Sounds good...
<Fujitsu> Hovering ~10.5KB/s
<TheMuso> Easily pulled at a speed of over 100KB/Sec here.
<TheMuso> All the way through that.
* TheMuso debootstraps
<StevenK> Using the highly scientific means of ls ; sleep 5 ; ls, I'm getting 3KB over 5 seconds.
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> StevenK: Do you want a trace to m.u.c for comparison to yours?
<TheMuso> Latencies may be different, but at least it would show you the path.
<StevenK> I think my torrent is monopolizing my link, which doesn't help.
<TheMuso> Right.
<sivang> has any of you guys saw that dbus/hal are broken in latest feisty upgrade?
<TheMuso> No.
<TheMuso> I'm going to stick with chroots for now.
<StevenK> Neither of my feisty chroots have/need dbus or hal. :-P
* StevenK is probably going to stick with chroots until about March.
<Hobbsee> do we have a release schedule yet?
<Hobbsee> when does the auto merging finish?
<sivang> TheMuso: probably a good  idea :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes, and soonish
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, `Herd 1'
<Hobbsee> bah, that's still ages
<StevenK> Hrm, not soonish
<sivang> what's herd 1 ?
<sivang> ah, the milestone cd name?
<sivang> ;)
* Hobbsee can ignore merges for a while then
<sivang> mornign slomo !
<StevenK> Heh
<sivang> slomo: something b0rkked with debus/hal
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: If you've got exams etc, I can understand that.
<sivang> slomo: dbus_bindings.DBusException: Could not get owner of name 'org.freedesktop.Hal': no such name
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true.  but still
<sivang> slomo: hal and dbus are running, for some reason hal is not publishing itself
<slomo> sivang: one moment
<sivang> (as it appears from the error message)
* sivang hugs slomo 
<slomo> sivang: works for me... a reboot or something doesn't fix it for you? does avahi for example work for you?
* sivang tries to use run avahi
<sivang> slomo: what's the name of the GUI client? :)
<sivang> slomo: the deamon seems to be running
<slomo> sivang: avahi-discover? or what do you mean?
<sivang> slomo: that one exactly :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: darn you.  doing one of the merges
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: hahahaha
<Hobbsee> malone #59992
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59992 in cogito "Should depend on curl" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59992
<sivang> slomo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30737/
<sivang> slomo: dbus_bindings.DBusException: The name org.freedesktop.Avahi was not provided by any .service files
<sivang> slomo: ^^ avahi-discover raises this
<sivang> slomo: but that might be due to a bad .service file
<sivang> any usb device also are not automatically mounted anymore.
<slomo_> sivang: does it work?
<sivang> slomo_: what does ?
<slomo_> sivang: avahi-discover... or something else that uses the system bus
<zakame> evening all :D
<sivang> slomo_: lshal doesn't work even
<sivang> slomo_: and h-d-m doesn't as well
<slomo_> sivang: avahi-discover neither? "ps aux | grep dbus" in a pastebin please :)
<sivang> slomo_: system bus seems to be running, I'd guess the problem is with hal - http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30738/
<slomo_> sivang: ok... talk to pitti then :)
<sivang> slomo_: right, thanks :)
<slomo_> sivang: output of "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus /org/freedesktop/DBus org.freedesktop.DBus.ListNames" ?
<sivang> slomo_: hal isn't there :p http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30741/
<slomo_> sivang: ok :) so pitti is really the person to talk to, i know almost nothing about hal
<sivang> slomo_: Sure thing, thanks for making sure it's hal, I'm investigating what happend.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you're *evil* :P
<StevenK> What's he done?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: gotten me to start on merging
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I blame wlassistant. It's so crap, and I'm so cranky at it that I'm looking at merges tonight just so I don't go mad.
<Hobbsee> oh how frustrating
<Hobbsee> someone took my merge, and didnt tell me about it
<StevenK> Neat. :-/
<StevenK> Oh, take a breath, ghc6!
<StevenK> 5 minutes of CPU time and counting...
<StevenK> And 800Mb of RAM...
<StevenK> Hrrrrrrrrrrm. I think I saw this mentioned in the changelog.
<StevenK>     - Call gcc with -O0 when Hat/PreludeBasic.hs gets compiled otherwise
<StevenK>       cc1 will consume an awfull lot of memory. This should fix the FTBFS
<StevenK>       on m86k, mipsel, powerpc and s390.
<StevenK> That'd be it.
<Hobbsee> awww...looks like someone needs to merge madison
* StevenK notes cc1 is up to 330Mb. Is that an awful lot?
<StevenK> Blink? Madison is a script, part of dak.
<StevenK> Oh geeeez. I'm 600Mb into swap.
<Hobbsee> sorry, madison-lite, or whatever it is
<Hobbsee> whatever's used in request sync
<StevenK> apt-cache madison is
<Hobbsee> that's teh one
<Hobbsee> that being said, it doesnt appear that the edgy version looks any different than the feisty one would, at the moment
<StevenK> Exactly. So I'm confused.
<StevenK> Hah.
* StevenK watches the memory graph go from full to three quarters empty
<StevenK>     - Call gcc with -O0 when Hat/PreludeBasic.hs gets compiled otherwise
<StevenK>       cc1 will consume an awfull lot of memory. This should fix the FTBFS
<StevenK>       on m86k, mipsel, powerpc and s390.
<StevenK> Oh bugger.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<jdong> are newer versions of cmake compatible with older onew?
<Mirv> hi. for some reason I've having hard time to find actual information about how to proceed to have a debian package (from etch&sid) imported into universe, if it's not existing in ubuntu at all?
<Mirv> DeveloperResources speaks about syncing, but seems to talk about newer package versions. MOTU speaks about packaging new software, ie in the case it's not packages (either in Debian) previously
<Mirv> a nice answer would be eg. that "go with the syncing guide", ie. I can do a sync request for a package that does not exist in Ubuntu yet, but is in Debian
<Burgwork> Mirv: it will be autosynced, or should be
<Gloubiboulga> Mirv: you can request a sync for a NEW package in ubuntu
<Burgwork> if it isn't, request a sync
<sivang> Burgwork: not sure this is supposed to happen for NEW packages ?
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> new packages in Debian should be autosynced as well
<sivang> ah, so manual requests is only after UVF probably
<sivang> Burgwork: you in mountain view btw?
<Mirv> Gloubiboulga: NEW in Ubuntu or NEW in Debian? the four packages I'm talking about are now in etch without RC bugs, should they automatically be imported to Ubuntu without any intervention?
<Burgwork> sivang: no *grumble*
<Mirv> so there is no process needed to "inform" Ubuntu about newly packaged packages in Debian, basically?
<Burgwork> Mirv: it should happen automatically
<Gloubiboulga> _should_
<Mirv> ok, so it's a matter of waiting then... hopefully
<Burgwork> watch the auto changes mailing list
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Mirv> is there any list about "to-be-imported" packages, would be nice to check if they're coming or not..
<Burgwork> if it doesn't happen with a week or so after MTV, file a bug
<Burgwork> ie: late Nov.
<Mirv> ok, have to put a note for myself somwhere
<sivang> Burgwork: auto chances list?
<sivang> Burgwork: I didn't know there was anyting but a -changes list ;)
<Mirv> ubuntu-changes-auto seems quiet since January
* sivang subscribd
<Burgwork> that is only active while auto syncs from Debian are going on
<Mirv> I'm going to put the packages in MainInclusionReview after that (those should be official part of a language support), aiming for feisty, but I can't proceed before the packages are in universe. luckily there's a lot of time till feisty.
<Burgwork> what are you trying to put in Main?
<sivang> Mirv: since, finally we've returned to the 6 months cycle ;)
<Mirv> Burgwork: suomi-malaga, libvoikko, tmispell-voikko, openoffice.org-voikko - basically bringing the first really working open source Finnish spellchecking and hyphenation into ispell/libenchant/OOo applications, replacing poorly working aspell/myspell/ispell-fi:s
<Burgwork> ah
<Q-FUNK> Mirv: they are already in Debian.  they just need to be synced
<Q-FUNK> working quite well indeed, I might add
<Mirv> Q-FUNK: yes, I was just wondering if the sync is automatic, when it's happening etc. but apparently it should be happening in 1-3 weeks.
<pirast_> i try to create a package.. but it only contains the documentation - it is being compiled but it is not beingt integrated into the deb. whats wrogn
<Gloubiboulga> pirast_: the installation part fails I guess
<LaserJock> ugggg
<pirast_> Gloubiboulga, thans
<LaserJock> the forums are killing me
<jsgotangco> forums are killing hyou?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<fernando> forums killer
<pirast_> why?
<jsgotangco> go bug roald
<jsgotangco> hehe
<LaserJock> people are just doing crazy things
<LaserJock> misinformation all over the place
<pirast_> yeah i know
<zul> heh...and thats different how?
<LaserJock> today I see somebody telling people to dist-upgrade from Dapper to Feisty
<LaserJock> straight
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<pirast_> lol
<jsgotangco> wooohooo
<zul> hmm..
<pirast_> argh
<LaserJock> they don't understand that it is remotely usable right now because we haven't really broken it yet
<bddebian> heh
<jsgotangco> ahh just ignore it, it always happen after every release
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> it's just tough to see that kind of stuff going to users that might not know any better
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<jsgotangco> i can dare say that ubuntu cares for the forums because of the sheer number of people there
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: pretty much
<jsgotangco> cares/interests whatever
<jsgotangco> canonical/ubuntu whatever
<sivang> jsgotangco++
<sivang> jsgotangco: there is even a spec "Forums Embassadors" to make sure communicatoin is not ill between ubuntu and the forums, IIRC
<jsgotangco> nice title
<jsgotangco> :)
* jsgotangco wants a local ubuntu consulate
<sivang> jsgotangco: hehe
<sivang> me too
<sivang> or to become one :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> if that happens, every UDS would only have motherhood statements
<Burgwork> our forums are the single largest forums of any Ubuntu distro, by any measure
<jsgotangco> except that for some reason "our" forums doesn't seem to be "ours" sometimes
<jsgotangco> :)
<Burgwork> right
<LaserJock> depends on who "us" and "them" are ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we're not bitter, at all :)
<LaserJock> I'm not bitter
<LaserJock> I'm just sad
<ajmitch> heh
<jdong> would there be any problems with a cmake backport to dapper?
<jdong> it seems like most things that build with cmake are now using 2.4 features
<LaserJock> yeah, so between the "Fesity is fine to upgrade to straight from Dapper" and "Why don't the developers provide a 1-click derivative (aka scripted apt-get lines) building tool" I think I might be done for the day ;-)
<zul> LaserJock: everytime you read the forums i die a little
<LaserJock> sorry dude
<zul> and now you are making me read the forums
<LaserJock> oh, don't do that
<LaserJock> really
<zul> too late
<LaserJock> I don't want our Xen lord to die
<Burgwork> I don't either
<Burgwork> he makes the Canadian team look good
<LaserJock> hehe
<zul> heh
<zul> Burgwork: we have another canadian on the kernel team soon
<Burgwork> really?
<Burgwork> rock!
<zul> yep
<zul> er gl usplash?
<zul> okie dokie
<LaserJock> hmmm, is this a vast Canadian conspiracy?
<LaserJock> the Canuks are talking over our kernel :/
<LaserJock> s/talking/taking/
<zul> yeah it is got a problem with it? :)
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm sure you don't want to read one of the "automatix should be in main" threads? :D
<Burgwork> jdong: who. Link me up harder
<LaserJock> don't...kill....me
<jdong> Burgwork: I'm joking
<jdong> Burgwork: I HOPE
<LaserJock> well, we get autopackage by default, why not automatix?
<jdong> Burgwork: the question was asked in some of the support IRC channels though
* LaserJock runs
<jdong> LaserJock: because checkinstall is the only way to install packages :D
<jdong> oh yeah, alien works too
<jdong> :D
<LaserJock> aliened checkinstall package are the only way to go
<LaserJock> is there checkinstall for  rpms?
<LaserJock> that would be an interesting crack comparison
<jdong> LaserJock: oh yeah, you betcha
<jdong> LaserJock: checkinstall was initially an RPM thing
<jdong> (I think)
<LaserJock> hehe, I might have imagined
<jdong> who would want to miss out on checkinstall?
<LaserJock> I thought you were going to say that RPM = checkinstall ;-p
<tomveens> LaserJock: You know more about cinelerra progress?
<LaserJock> progress?
<tomveens> if there is progress
<jdong> LaserJock: I believed I also walked in on someone saying "dh_make && debuild -b" is all you need to do for safe packaging
<jdong> LaserJock: it was in ubuntu-devel, if I am not mistaken
<LaserJock> tomveens: I'd guess it'd take ~ 1 month to get cinelerra in the repos
<LaserJock> jdong: ouch
<LaserJock> tomveens: if people stick with it though we'll get there ;-)
<tomveens> okay, you need any help or something?
<LaserJock> me?
<LaserJock> we all need help ;-)
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> Burgwork: you using conduit?
<jdong> speaking of azureus, what did happen to fixing up the azureus package?
<tomveens> that I will believe ;)
<Burgwork> Burgwork: nope, not yet
<LaserJock> LaserJock: I installed their Edgy package last night and tried to sync my tomboy notes, but it didn't seem to do anything
<LaserJock> heh
<tomveens> LaserJock: What are the first steps, contacting the cinelerra cv guys?
<jdong> LaserJock: talking to yourself?
<LaserJock> jdong: apparently, Burgwork started it though
<LaserJock> tomveens: yes, see if they will give you their source packages
<jdong> lol
<tomveens> okay
<LaserJock> tomveens: it looks like there packages also requires 1 other dependency that we dont' have
<LaserJock> tomveens: so we'll need to do that one too
<tomveens> you know the name of that dependancy?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: whiprush is your contact on conduit
<jdong> LaserJock: checkinstall? :D
<LaserJock> tomveens: not exactly sure
<LaserJock> tomveens: they just mention something here: http://www.kiberpipa.org/~gandalf/ubuntu/README
<LaserJock> Burgwork: hmm, I should have talked to him about that at Mt. View
<Burgwork> right
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I was his "driver" for 2 days ;-)
<LaserJock> oh well
<LaserJock> the conduit interface is a little confusing
<tomveens> LaserJock: Didn't we talked about Riccardo Setti, thought he had something to do in the conversation about cinelerra
<LaserJock> I'll probably just use some rsync scripts
<LaserJock> tomveens: he filed an ITP bug in Debian a year ago
<LaserJock> giskard: ping
<giskard> pong
<tomveens> that was it yes
<giskard> LaserJock: you are lucky ;)
<LaserJock> that's good to know :-)
<tomveens> giskard: you wanted cinelerra a year ago I hear
<giskard> tomveens: huston we have a  problem! video patents
<LaserJock> giskard: what kind of problems
<tomveens> aj
<LaserJock> giskard: stuff that isn't in Multiverse?
<giskard> LaserJock: video codec patents
<tomveens> wich ones?
<tomveens> for cinelerra you mean?
<LaserJock> giskard: what I'm trying to get at is, can we put it in Multiverse
<LaserJock> giskard: or is it completely undistributable
<giskard> tomveens: all the patented libs are in the marillat repository
<giskard> LaserJock: dunno, i have to check.
<LaserJock> giskard: we have mjpegtools in Multiverse
<giskard> tomveens: yes, for compile cinelerra.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what else is needed
<giskard> wait
<tomveens> okay
<giskard> tomveens: did you already read http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331072
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 331072 in wnpp "ITP: cinelerra-cvs -- non-linear video editor and compositor for Linux." [Wishlist,Open] 
<tomveens> yes, but am bit of a noob
<giskard> tomveens: libdvd4 libavcodeccvs51-dev
<giskard> are not in ubuntu and cinelerra needs it
<giskard> (At last not in universe)(i don't use multiverse)
<tomveens> but it could be in multiverse, and could cinelerra work without it?
<mr_pouit> libavcodec-dev - development files for libavcodec
<mr_pouit> (in universe)
<mr_pouit> (it could work with it ?)
<giskard> mr_pouit: dunno :(
<mr_pouit> :/
<tomveens> is it worth a try?
<giskard> tomveens: i don't have time for cinelerra, sorry. feel free to do what you want  with my ITP
<giskard> tomveens: i'm interested in it ( i  used it :) ) but i have too much thing to do right now..
<tomveens> np, I am not good in these things but I like it so that's why I am trying
<giskard> tomveens: i have svn rw access on the main repo, if you want provide patches for debian/ or anything else not code related ask me, you are welcome!
<tomveens> giskard: Thanks! :)
<tomveens> wow, connection problems?
<tomveens> are libdvd4 libavcodeccvs51-dev license problems?
<tomveens> giskard: you know this?
<LaserJock> patent issues i guess
<tomveens> aha
<giskard> tomveens: in fact you have to pay for use them.
<giskard> encode e decode afaik
<giskard> you have to check debian-legal@lists.debian.org archives, i wrote a mail asking for comments.
<giskard> ah! and you  may want to use the latest libtheora-mmx (not packaged yet, i guess)
<LaserJock> and cinelerra has to be built with libdvd4 and libavcodeccvs51-dev?
<giskard> LaserJock: yes, afaik.
<tomveens> giskard: I can not find your post, is it on your real name?
<giskard> dunno, try giskard @ autistici org
<tomveens> can not find anything in debian lists search
<giskard> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2005/09/msg00247.html
<tomveens> read http://rafb.net/paste/results/9ycczl14.html for some more info about it
<giskard> tomveens: yes. i know. and as holgar said, we have to wait until heroine will write license.
<tomveens> I don't know if that is good news or bad news, you say waiting, and I hope heroine is quick
<giskard> heroine is not very fast... :(
<tomveens> you have experience, maybe they could hand a lot of that work over to the community?
<zul> hah i thought i read heroin
<zul> i been in california too long
<tomveens> california is all about weed isn't it?
<tomveens> I saw "blow" with johnny depp
<tomveens> not saw it together with him ;)
* gnomefreak doesnt like the fonts too much :(
<giskard> dholbach: new libtelepathy and farsight uploaded ;)
<dholbach> giskard: yeah, already saw it - good work on that!
<giskard> :)
<kiko> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> hi kiko
<kiko> ajmitch, too busy this week eh?
<ajmitch> at UDS
<kiko> I know
<ajmitch> what was the bug?
<kiko> 3070something
<kiko> it had to do with the zodb being uninstallable with zope-interfaces
<kiko> ajmitch, is that something that could interest you? reads like a pretty simple tweak
<kiko> if it is I can find the bug
<ajmitch> right
<kiko> okay
<ajmitch> bug 30701
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30701 in zodb "python2.4-zodb should depend on python2.4-zopeinterface?" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30701
<ajmitch> ok, it's a different problem with python-zodb
<ajmitch> I'll see if I have time for it tonight
<LaserJock> hmm, is there a feisty debootstrap yet?
<lupine_85> hehe
<lupine_85> eager :)
<giskard> LaserJock: yes.
<lupine_85> but yes, debootstrap feisty works
<LaserJock> I just need a feisty pbuilder
<LaserJock> I'm not *that* eager
<geser> debootstrap was one of the first packages uploaded to feisty
<TheMuso> LaserJock: FInd out at wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<TheMuso> Theres a link to the feisty debootstrap.
<LaserJock> bah
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-10
<fernando> hi all
<knix> Are there any plans to build mpd packages with aac support?
<crimsun> not currently
<crimsun>      faad2 | 2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu3 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/multiverse Sources
<crimsun>        mpd | 0.12.1-1ubuntu1 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<crimsun> a source package in universe cannot build-depend on binary packages in multiverse.
<knix> so is it a licensing issue?
<crimsun> potential patent issue is one reason. The real reason is technical, as I just explained.
<Fujitsu> gtkpod-aac works around that issue by having the source package duplicated and producing a binary in multiverse, but it's a nasty workaround, and it makes maintaining gtkpod inconvenient.
<crimsun> yes, it's lovely. With a sharp pointy object.
<Fujitsu> Very.
* Fujitsu vanquishes gtkpod-aac.
<LaserJock> crimsun: if you got more advance notice of when/where the next UDS was could you make it?
<crimsun> I can't make it in May 2007; I'm already committed
<crimsun> quite frustrating, since I had hoped to make it to that one
<LaserJock> crimsun: darn, yeah
<LaserJock> in one of the BOFs they talked about setting the location/date much sooner
<LaserJock> I was hoping that'd give you enough time
<crimsun> nice bit o' history in -devel, eh?
<bhale> yes.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Heheh, yeah.
<bhale> good times, if you were here
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> i remember how everyone got online on the day of release
<jsgotangco> before things got automated
<bluefoxicy> is anyone opposed to Stratagus 2.2 and Invasion:  Battle of Survival 2.0 going in universe in Edgy+1?
<bluefoxicy> they're in beta, they'll be out by release most likely
<crimsun> not at all, and now's the time to make it get into Feisty.
<crimsun> (eh, I guess I'm speaking for me and not "anyone"->"everyone")
<jsgotangco> they maybe good additions for sure
* fernando felt itself an old man reading about she-ra
<bluefoxicy> well we have BOS and Stratagus, just the current versions
<bluefoxicy> note currently Invasion: Battle of Survival has like 3 unique maps, 3 types of attackers, and 2 types of vehicles; and 2.0 has like 6 types of vehicles and more assult guys, it's pretty major
<bluefoxicy> I'm just checking to see if it's ok to throw beta stuff into the dev branch
* bluefoxicy will look into that later then, when he's on Feisty.
<minghua> bluefoxicy: you are talking about games, right?
<bluefoxicy> yes
<minghua> I think having development branch games in universe is quite all right
<minghua> the wesnoth we have in edgy is the development branch
<Fujitsu> minghua: Exactly what I was going to say. We often have wesnoth development branches, as far as I know.
<bluefoxicy> alright.  I'll have to test it out to make sure it works (dot dot dot smiley face) but I'll see about getting it uploaded once I'm sitting on Feisty.
<bluefoxicy> well, unless the current maintainer beats me to it anyway ;P
<minghua> Fujitsu: yeah, I mention that because we deliberately reverted wesnoth to stable branch for dapper at the last minute
<Fujitsu> Probably a good idea.
<Fujitsu> That branch is going stable shortly, I believe.
* bluefoxicy has played dev branch of wesnoth on windows, which also currently seems to be a large step up
<bluefoxicy> yes Wesnoth dev is currently OFFICIALLY rc1
<minghua> yeah, wesnoth 1.2 does look like a good step forward
<minghua> (I only looked at screenshots though)
<bluefoxicy> Wesnoth is probably the best turn based strategy we have right now; BOS is probably the best real time strategy (I don't think anyone's uploaded Glest yet, which looks comparable)
<bluefoxicy> minghua:  I installed the windows version
<Fujitsu> So, we need to get people to backport it to Hoary, Breezy, Dapper, and Edgy, while breaking as much stuff as possible.
<bluefoxicy> minghua:  it had a lot more campaigns, I played one on easy and got my ass kicked hard.
<minghua> what? no warty backports?  :-P
<bluefoxicy> heh is it really appropriate to backport games
<minghua> bluefoxicy: wesnoth?  yeah, that's a hard game (to me).  I haven't finished a story yet
<bluefoxicy> ouch
<crimsun> minghua: I'm still quite fond of Warty, actually
<bluefoxicy> current stratagus package is brute force debian packaging, no CDBS or anything.
<bhale> hah "brute force"
<bhale> its a make file
<bhale> and debhelper
<bhale> which is pretty much the standard
<bluefoxicy> have you read one?  CDBS 4 lines -> 100 lines debhelper :P
<bluefoxicy> (I'm only being slighly absurd)
<bhale> i have been packaging for ubuntu since what we just found out was a bit before September 2004
<bhale> I have seen a rules file before
<bluefoxicy> "what we just found out"
<bluefoxicy> retroactive temporal injects?
<bhale> no, we are chatting about history
<bluefoxicy> "Nothing happened on October 15, 2003... oh wait, yes, some abstract event just came across the void and added that day to history"
<minghua> crimsun: I first installed warty, too.  so I suppose it's special to me as well
<minghua> crimsun: but do you still have a warty install?
<bhale> minghua: it was groundbreaking, as ive already said
<crimsun> minghua: "of course not!"
<bhale> Linux 2.6, GNOME and Utopia came together the way they were menat to be came together in a distro
<bhale> and it ruled
<crimsun> which is of course not-so-crypt for "yes, and I get to keep the pieces"
<bluefoxicy> I just wish it was more light-weight.
<bhale> it?
* Fujitsu points bluefoxicy to the spare X hanging on the channel wall.
<bluefoxicy> <bhale> Linux 2.6, GNOME and Utopia came together the way they were menat to be came together in a distro
<bluefoxicy> bhale:  it :P
<bluefoxicy> bhale:  unless the distro is male now... or female?  ( http://www.aros.org/ )
<bhale> sigh
<bluefoxicy> what
<bhale> i can always count on you to reference sexual deviance
<bluefoxicy> dude
<crimsun> I honestly don't mind Ubuntu being "heavier" than $someother, since I have pretty high confidence that I can hand a Dapper CD to $randomschmoe and have it work instead of walking $randomschmoe through asoundconf(1) and fstab(5)
<bluefoxicy> that's an operating system, it just happens to have a (naked) (furry) female mascot
<bluefoxicy> also I thought the joke about computer software gender was very tasteful
<bhale> it wasnt bad, but it triggered bad memories
<bhale> you know, the times I banned you daily
<bluefoxicy> XD
<jdong> sheesh, subversion takes like 2 minutes to compile and an hour to run its test suite
<jdong> the only thing missing from it is solving sudoku puzzles in multiple dimensions via string theory
<minghua> I take that as a good sign
<jdong> minghua: aren't you just mr. positive? :D
<minghua> (the long test run, not the missing sudoku puzzles)
<minghua> jdong: well, if you don't want to run the test cases, you can always turn them off
<jdong> is that what building the package executes, or is there an even LONGER one? :D
<minghua> jdong: (i do know as a backporter your position is sort of different)
<jdong> minghua: well, I'm evaluating the package for backporting, I don't have that luxury :D
<jdong> and you read my mind :)
<minghua> so I said _I_ take it as a good sign, does not necessarily mean you should take it as a good sign too :-P
<jdong> speaking of that, is subversion appropriate for backporting?
<jdong> My initial reaction was to carefully touch it with a 10 foot pole
<jdong> according to subversion's site, minor versions should not change the API except to add new functions
<minghua> my general feeling is that subversion is actually rather safe
<jdong> and unfortunately the package appears to build cleanly in backports
<minghua> not a lot of packages depend on libsvnX
<jdong> it doesn't seem like it
<jdong> which surprised me
<minghua> and if we are talking about a 1.3.x to 1.3.y upgrade, I think it may be okay
<jdong> minghua: what they want is a dapper->edgy upgrade
<jdong> 1.2.x to 1.3.x
<jdong> I'm researching the changelog between the two now
<minghua> the real culprit is usually the berkeley DB upgrade
<jdong> minghua: did the on-disk layout change between 1.2 and 1.3?
<jdong> I know it did between 1.3 and 1.4
<minghua> exactly what I was thinking
<minghua> no, definitely earlier than 1.4
<jdong> hmm
<minghua> fsfs became default either in 1.2 or 1.3
<jdong> oh
<thom> but that's not a change in on disk layout of preexisting repos
<thom> it's just a change of default
<minghua> or you are talking about the work dir layout?
<thom> for new repos
<minghua> that's 1.4 I believe
<minghua> and thom is right, new subversion can reads old berkely DB repo just fine
<Fujitsu> minghua: Sure? I'm pretty sure I had to dump and reimport on an upgrade a few months ago...
<minghua> Fujitsu: that's more likely a DB upgrade
<jdong> I'd personally like for it to be backwards and forwards compatible
<jdong> Keeping Dapper as a consistent platform is nice
<minghua> I believe the repo side is backward compatible since 1.0
<minghua> subversion people are quite serious about compatibility
<jdong> it appears so
<jdong> I'm more worried about the server side
<jdong> on the client side, svn checkouts are quite cheap
* jdong watches subversion STILL testing
<jdong> sheesh
<Mez> <minghua> subversion people are quite serious about compatibility
<Mez> tell that to cscvs ;)
<jdong> finally! it built
<minghua> Mez: cscvs? as in "cscvs is a tool which implements an abstraction layer over CVS constraining it to operations which have atomic changeset semantics"?
<Mez> minghua, cscvs is the program which imports SVN/CVS stuff into the supermirror
<minghua> Mez: and they have problem with svn repo layouts?
<Mez> they have probelm with SVN repos ;)
<minghua> I honestly know nothing about svn.  I suspect cscvs is not using the public svn API though
<minghua> you are not supposed to read other people's raw data file after all
<fbond> hmm.  My package midisport-firmware never actually got uploaded, although It was approved for edgy ...
<fbond> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3063
<fbond> I suppose it will be held off until feisty now?
<crimsun> fbond: of course
<crimsun> fbond: and no, don't subscribe Scott yet. Pinging him on irc and asking him to look is sufficient. (I'm actually not sure why I was subscribed to that bug...)
<rmjb> when feisty is out to build on will there be a notice sent out to the ubuntu-motu list?
<LaserJock> it can be built on now
<rmjb> really? I can generate a pbuilder for it now?
<crimsun> yes
<fbond> crimsun, sorry if I subscribed you inappropriately; I'd been considering you somewhat authoritative on the subject
<crimsun> np
<fbond> I will ping Scott -- he is keybuck, yes?
<crimsun> yes, but I wouldn't ping him until next week
<fbond> ok
<crimsun> UDS isn't a good time to hope for action
<fbond> oh, right ... slipped my mind
<rmjb> cool, how long does it usually take for the first ... umm... installable version to come out?
<rmjb> like how edgy had knot1 and so on
<crimsun> rmjb: meaning a tagged milestone? Depends on the schedule.
<rmjb> hmm... guess what I'm asking is, I can build for feisty, but if I want to test I should have feisty somewhere... is there a way to install it?
<rmjb> using deboot, chroot, apt-get install ubuntu-minimal ubuntu-standard?
<crimsun> rmjb: create an edgy chroot and dist-upgrade it to feisty
<rmjb> ah, thanks
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Or create a feisty chroot.
<rmjb> okay I'll have to do that
<crimsun> or that. I normally don't create new devel chroots until at least the first tagged milestone
<Fujitsu> It works fine at the moment.
<rmjb> where's the common place for chroots? /opt?
<crimsun> wherever you'd like
<crimsun> I normally don't have root access on my build machines, so I use ~/pbuilder/
* jdong considers adding a NO_MANGLE=1 option to prevu
* jdong just noticed that kernels don't like ~6.10prevu1 in their version :D
<crimsun> interesting. I would have chosen -0ubuntu0.6.10 .
<LaserJock> ah, the joys of versioning
<jdong> crimsun: hmm, what if a 1ubuntu2 already existed?
<jdong> then 1ubuntu2.0.6.1.0?
<jdong> s/1.0/10/
<crimsun> for what package?
<jdong> crimsun: just as a general example
<crimsun> general examples are hard </barbie>
<jdong> crimsun: and the linux-source packages won't like it with that many subversions either
<crimsun> that's why you use --append-to-version
<Mez> jdong: I got beryl working
<Mez> almost
<jdong> Mez: yay! have a cookie!
<jdong> crimsun: you think the ktorrent changes we talked about earlier can go into feisty?
<Mez> jdong: cept for that emerald doesnt work
<jdong> feisty's open for uploads, right?
<crimsun> anything goes this early in feisty
<crimsun> yes
<jdong> crimsun: would you be willing to do that?
<jdong> or should I find someone else?
<crimsun> I'd fine w/ uploading it, but I'd rather it be discussed in #kubuntu-devel first with at least sarah and brandon
<jdong> crimsun: gotcha, I'll run it past them next time I see em
<crimsun> they're more familiar w/ its possible regressions than I am (since I'm not a consistent KDE user)
<jdong> alright
<jdong> upstream's ok with those changes being backported to the 2.0 series
<Toadstool> good evening everybody!
<Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> I've not seen you around these parts for a while.
<Toadstool> I've been very busy at work
<Toadstool> and visited southern California during weekends ;)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Toadstool> you're all preparing feisty at UDS-MV? :)
<Fujitsu> Oh yes, every one of us is there.
<jdong> my sarcasm detector is going off
<crimsun> we had to sneak Fujitsu in through a carry-on
<Toadstool> heh
<jdong> crimsun: hehe, we actually tried that on our robotics team
<jdong> we got detained by the TSA for 6 hours
<Toadstool> there's no UniverseFreeze date fixed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule, it has not been decided yet?
* Toadstool is going through the list of UDS-MV specs
<crimsun> probably not
<crimsun> I'm guessing it'll be mid-March for universe UVF and early April for universe FF
<LaserJock> perhaps UVF and FF will ably to Universe and Main at the same time
<LaserJock> s/ably/aply
<Fujitsu> And it'd better NOT be at the same time as beta.
<Toadstool> yup
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: s/a{b,p}ly/apply/
<Fujitsu> *a[bp] ly
<Fujitsu> Better.
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<LaserJock> trying to eat here
<crimsun> it would be _great_ if universe froze in early March
<crimsun> then we could actually do some ... testing?
<Toadstool> do what? :)
* Toadstool runs
<Fujitsu> I was just thinking `March? Isn't that a bit early?', then I realised we're releasing in April, not June.
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> UVF was like Jan 28th or something for Dapper
<Fujitsu> Aw, don't you guys want another publicity disaster like Edgy?
<LaserJock> I wouldn't call it a "disaster"
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: I wouldn't call it a disaster
<Fujitsu> Not quite, but it was getting there.
<Fujitsu> `Ubuntu 6.10 upgrades a nightmare' on the top of Slashdot for many an hour... Blogs everywhere...
<Burgundavia> that is pretty minor
<Fujitsu> Not really.
<Fujitsu> I've not seen such things about other distros' upgrades exploding recently.
<Toadstool> oh, wow... universe/multiverse repositories enabled by default? :)
<minghua> ...because people don't expect other distros to be upgraded from old version?
<minghua> :-P
<minghua> seriously though, I honestly don't hear much about upgradability of fedora or suse
<Fujitsu> Red Hat always upgraded perfectly, not sure about Fedora, I presume it's similar.
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> hmm, I think Ubuntu is the first distro I've actually tried upgrading from an existing install
<minghua> I admit I did read people saying edgy is "the biggest failure of operating system upgrade since Windows ME to 2000" though, and I do know that's a pretty low standard :-(
<crimsun> well that's interesting. With Edgy's galeon, loading the yahoo mail beta in a tab results in that tab being refreshed erratically (roughly every 1-2 seconds with that tab's window contents jumping all over the screen). The problem disappears when yahoo mail beta opens in a new window.
<Fujitsu> Impressive.
<Mez> Mwuahahaha
<Mez> bling is good :D
<Mez> cept for dodgy fonts ;)
<adedov> hi
<adedov> where can I get reference what I need to do in order to incorporate my package into distro?
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<adedov> thanks
<Chandu> hi
<Chandu>  I want to know ho Ubuntu has done boot message very simple ..rather than Debian echoing lot of boot messages
<Lathiat> Chandu: passing 'quiet' to the kernel is a good start
<Lathiat> Chandu: shuts up alot of the kernel messages
<Chandu> Lathiat, ok
<Chandu> Lathiat, But In Ubuntu it is giving like "Starting NFS server        OK" same as Fedora r redhat .. How u have done that
<Lathiat> oh, thats just some custom init stuff
<Lathiat> see the lsb includes
<Chandu> Lathiat, Where should i see that ..lsb includes .
<Chandu> Lathiat, custom init stuff .. How do I cutomize my init stuff ...(I hope its init scripts)
<Chandu> Lathiat, r u there
<Lathiat> Chandu: check one of the init scripts that use it
<TheMuso> Wow that PulseAudio spec is quite ambicious.
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: lennart did write avahi
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Oh ok. Didn't know that.
<Burgundavia> along with Lathiat
<TheMuso> Yeah
<phanatic> morning
<Jozo-> Hobbsee: ping. Gnunet merge updated (bug 66507)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
<Hobbsee> Jozo-:
<Hobbsee> Jozo-: yay
<Hobbsee> Jozo-: http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gnunet/REPORT
<Hobbsee> and only hte .1 debdiff is listed there - not the .2
<Hobbsee> ohh, there's the new one, right
<Hobbsee> Jozo-: i'd prefer to get someone from the gnome end to sanity-check that...
<crimsun> that is one heck of a confusing bug report
<crimsun> so which of these debdiffs should I be ignoring?
<Jozo-> crimsun: Use latest for feisty and ignore rest of them.
<crimsun> mm, 90% of it is .po
<crimsun> Jozo-: pbuilt in feisty and confirmed working in a feisty install?
<crimsun> the debdiff looks sane
<Jozo-> crimsun: Builds fine. Not tested to install
<crimsun> please test-upgrade, execute, test-remove, and test-install in a feisty chroot
<Jozo-> Current version in Edgy doesn't even install cleanly. (due but 66467)
<Jozo-> s/but/bug/
<crimsun> do you attempt to handle a failed install?
<Jozo-> Do whatever you want with those patches. I'm getting out this mess...
<crimsun> if not, you should.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: there's a hook for that, you knwo :)  B91
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> np.
<TheMuso> You're up late.
<crimsun> I have a presentation in 2.5 hours.
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> I dunno how you do it.
<crimsun> powernaps
<TheMuso> right
<sistpoty> hi folks
<crimsun> 'lo sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi crimsun
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm at uni right now... in case you go for lunch, please ping me ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: sorry, I'm not at uni today. be there on monday again
<sistpoty> siretart: ah, k... on monday, I won't be there, but on Tuesday
<siretart> sistpoty: okay, tuesday then. kathrin is at uni on tuesday as well, I think
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> :)
<chantra> arf, feisty fonts are ugly today :)
<gnomefreak> chantra: they were ugly yesterday too
<chantra> just bootup on feisty today
<chantra> upgrade libfontenc1 , xfonts-encodings
<gnomefreak> chantra: im sure these are not final.
<chantra> gnomefreak: yes sure :D
<chantra> but the are f***ing annoying to read though
<chantra> gonna pack a package and reboot on edgy :)
<gnomefreak> i agree but these things happen when you test things.
<chantra> gnomefreak: yep i know
<chantra> actually, i'm having a better font quality using text based application such as irssi
<chantra> i migh surf the net with linx today ;)
<chantra> s/linx/links/g
<Fujitsu> chantra: Remove ttf-arphic-uming, that will fix the font problem.
<Fujitsu> The new upstream version of that has a nasty mistake which causes it to be preferred over all others.
<gnomefreak> is there a known issue with unrar-free in edgy. not installing?
<chantra> Fujitsu: you rock :)
<chantra> what is the default ubuntu font though?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: no, i installed it yesterday
<gnomefreak> hmm thats weird. brb
* chantra feisty got such nice fonts today :)
<jsgotangco> wow you're using crack huh
<Fujitsu> jsgotangco: It's not crack. It's absolutely fine.
<Fujitsu> (for the moment)
<jsgotangco> sure its because it wasn't broken on purpose yet
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> yes, just to make sure that people werent "testing" expecting it all to work
* Hobbsee wonders if X gets merged this time?
<gnomefreak> .me thought you needed universe enabled to grab from multiverse :(
<StevenK> gnomefreak: Each section is seperate.
<jsgotangco> nahhh but your multiverse stuff might need something from universe chances are high
<gnomefreak> yeah im seeing that :(
<gnomefreak> he was able to grab java but not unrar-free
* gnomefreak hugs Fujitsu for the font workaround :)
<jonh_wendell> guys, i've downloaded a package with apt-get source. How can i rebuild it, i haven't changed anything, i just want to rebuild it
<jonh_wendell> just debuild command?
<fernando> jonh_wendell: yes, or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<jonh_wendell> Hi fernando, good to see you here!
<jonh_wendell> i just rebuilt the package. I'll install it. How can i back to ubuntu version after i make my tests?
<geser> apt-get --reinstall install package
<chantra> jonh_wendell: apt-get remove package_name
<chantra> and install back
<chantra> jonh_wendell: geser's way is better :)
<jonh_wendell> :)
<guibis> hi all !
<guibis> i can't upload my package, i received a mail who announced that it's rejected Rejected:
<guibis> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<guibis> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a release in the 'SUPPORTED' state.
<guibis> 
<StevenK> You're trying to upload to edgy or dapper?
<guibis> steven
<guibis> StevenK:  i think it's the problem. i i don't where indicate the distribution ...
<guibis> i'm trying to upload to dapper.
<StevenK> Why?
<guibis> i don't know where upload to dapper ...
<gnomefreak> guibis: you cant just upload things. you need to have someone else upload it after its accepted.
<StevenK> Even so, uploading to dapper is wrong.
<gnomefreak> good point
<guibis> ok but why uploading to dapper is wrong ?
<StevenK> Because Dapper was released in June.
<gnomefreak> its stable would be one reason
<guibis> oki
<gnomefreak> edgy == some what uploadable (still under strict rules) iirc
<guibis> oki
<gnomefreak> StevenK: is ubuntu getting a welcome center for feisty (like the one being worked on for xubuntu)?
<StevenK> I have no idea.
<StevenK> Why would I know? :-)
<gnomefreak> dont know i tried though ;)
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: no it isnt.  it's still released.
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it's gotta go thru SRU, just like any stable release
<gnomefreak> ah
<guibis> so i will concert with someone of ubuntu-fr ...
<guibis> thanks
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> is it possible to request an .deb here ?
<Q-FUNK> ?
<asabil> gtkglext python binding :)
<asabil> I didn't succeed in building one myself
<fernando> asabil: To request the packaging, add it to the MOTU/Packages/Candidates page
<asabil> okey thanks
<asabil> there is no express delivery service :D ?
<fernando> asabil: put it in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<asabil> that's what I am doing fernando
<fernando> asabil: i can to package it
<asabil> :p
<fernando> asabil: A Debian/Ubuntu package for the Python bindings is available at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6348&package_id=179437
<fernando> ?
<luisbg> hello all
<asabil> not working
<asabil> iirc
<fernando> hi lucas
<fernando> ops
<fernando> hi luisbg
<luisbg> hi fernando
<asabil> fernando, added to the wiki page
<asabil> and thanks a lot :)
<fernando> asabil: you're welcom
<fernando> welcome
<fernando> asabil: apt-cache show libgtkglext1
<asabil> yes fernando ?
<asabil> (sorry I was afk)
<fernando> asabil: fernando@fernando:~$ apt-cache show libgtkglext1 | grep -i description
<fernando> Description: OpenGL Extension to GTK (shared libraries)
<asabil> yes ?
<asabil> did I do something wrong in the wiki ?
<fernando> asabil: it already in ubuntu
<asabil> yep, but not the python binding
<asabil> the ruby and c++ bindings are there
<asabil> but not the python one
<asabil> nop ?
<fernando> asabil: then you need the pygtkglext-1.1.0.tar.gz ?
<asabil> yep that's what I have put in the wiki
<fernando> asabil: ok
<asabil> sorry for the confusion
<fernando> asabil: no problem
<fernando> asabil: is my mistake =)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<fernando> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello fernando
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> yo bddebian
<zakame> hmm any reason why suspend2 isn't default in ubuntu?
<ajmitch> morning all
<zakame> yo ajmitch
<jsgotangco> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi bddebian
<andreas__> hi, i need to know which version of the rt2500 third party drivers ubuntu 5.10 shipped with. any idea where i could find such an information?(besides downloading the iso, of course)
<LaserJock> andreas__: I'd guess packages.ubuntu.com
<psusi> or launchpad...
<LaserJock> well, LP takes a bit longer unless you know the URLs
<andreas__> yep, found it
<lifeless> imbrandon: jo, abbout that channel limit :)
<psusi> anyone remember what the $ var is for the pid of the last forked pipeline?
<geser> psusi: are you looking for $! ?
<psusi> yea, I found it in the info page finally ;)
<psusi> man I love bash
<psusi> I just set up a command line to fork a dd copying bytes from /dev/random to /dev/null and another fork to send it a SIGUSR1 every 5 seconds to print how many bytes it has copied so far, leaving me at the command line to issue additional commands to poke /dev/urandom
<psusi> strangely, writing bytes to /dev/urandom doesn't appear to increase the entropy pool....
<minghua> why is that strange?
<minghua> writing pre-determined characters doesn't introduce entropy after all :-P
<psusi> I would think adding bytes to the entropy pool would increase the entrpopy count
<psusi> looking at the kernel sources though, it looks like you have to call an ioctl to add bytes and have it count... strange....
<imbrandon> lifeless: ?
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: have you tried to make the changes to frostwire and have it run? i changes the runFrost.sh to #!/bin/bash and it doesnt work. also there is no changelog/control/or rules files to change anything in the tar. the .deb package has everything but a rules file and if i change them im not sure how to roll the changes back into a .deb
<imbrandon> thats not the opnly place it needed changed, there are 2 shell scripts, but yea
<imbrandon> i have it working
<imbrandon> i will upload it to feisty later and let you see the patch
<gnomefreak> ok ty
* gnomefreak could only find one shell script
<lifeless> imbrandon: you offered to increase my freenode chan limit
<lifeless> later..
<Adri2000> I can't find in the debian policy an explanation about the -data/-common binary packages
<LaserJock> I don't know that there is a specific policy for them
<Adri2000> :-/
<LaserJock> use them as you need
<Adri2000> for a program with only a directory images/ of 1,8M, do you think it's useful?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> I guess it depends on how much arch dependent stuff you have
<LaserJock> and if another package could use of the data without the other parts
<Adri2000> I think images/ is the only arch indep thing
<Adri2000> LaserJock: and do you know the difference between -data and -common?
<LaserJock> data's just data :-)
<LaserJock> -common would be if there was stuff that multiple packages use
<LaserJock> like a common core
<Adri2000> ok, sounds logic :)
<superm1> imbrandon, are you around?
<Adri2000> should I put the locales in the -data package?
<geser> is it a program or a library?
<Adri2000> geser: program
<geser> it depends on the ratio between arch-specific parts (executables) and arch-all data (locales)
<geser> seperated it makes the arch-specific debs smaller
<geser> but every addtional package increases the size of the Packages file
<geser> and as an user will expect a translated program you should depend on the -data package to get the translations
<Adri2000> ok
<geser> hello lophyte
<lophyte> hey geser
<geser> you can start doing the merges for you packages (if you want)
<lophyte> I'll have to read up on how to do that.. never done merges
<geser> most of the work ist already done by merge-o-matic
<geser> you have to check if the patches are still needed (or included in Debian or simple obsolete) and merged correctly (and fix the merge conflicts)
<Lutin> Hello
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> please, if i modify a makefile.am because i get soft from CVS and it needs some modif to pass the make distcheck
<Sp4rKy> is it accepted for ubuntu ?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-11
<Fujitsu> Sp4rKy: If the changes are sane, it's probably acceptable.
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> thx Fujitsu :)
<Lutin> Fujitsu: even if wa can't provide patches ?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: wa?
<Lutin> Fujitsu: we
<Fujitsu> Why can't we provide patches? And what's that got to with the packaging?
<Lutin> Fujitsu, if I'm pacakging something from cvs, to have clean source tarball, I need to run make distchekc, right ?
<Fujitsu> Yes..
* minghua is not sure all upstream releases we shipped has run make distcheck ;-)
<minghua> and hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: and if we need to make changes on the makefile.am to have it passing make distcheck
<Lutin> we can't provide patches for that, as it's not part of the deb build process
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure exactly what the policy with CVS exports is, maybe somebody else can shed some light on it.
<Adri2000> can I remove the "Depends" line in debian/control for a -data binary package?
<crimsun> that would be silly.
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Why?
<Fujitsu> (that was a no)
<crimsun> what use is a foo-data package without its corresponding foo?
<Adri2000> because it's like that in the xmoto package
<crimsun> then xmoto should be fixed
<Adri2000> crimsun: foo-data should depends on foo?
<Adri2000> -s
<crimsun> unless it's truly an independent foo-data, yes. Need to look at the specific context.
<Adri2000> my -data package contains all the images needed by the program
<mr_pouit> imo, Recommends would be enough :/
<crimsun> so if someone installed your foo-data, what would they gain without foo?
<crimsun> is foo-data usable without foo?
<Adri2000> beautiful images :)
<crimsun> and what is foo?
<Adri2000> homebank
<Adri2000> http://homebank.free.fr
<crimsun> I'm not convinced foo-data would be value-add without foo
<crimsun> but sure, you could demote it to a Recommends
<minghua> crimsun: there is an argument about avoiding circular dependencies
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> I was just going to cite that
<minghua> (I assume foo depends on foo-data)
<crimsun> cf. vlc and vlc-alsa
<crimsun> you'd have foo Depend on foo-data but foo-data Recommend foo
<mr_pouit> yes
<minghua> and Enhance foo
<minghua> we really should use Enhance more
<Fujitsu> Enhance is a valid relation?
<crimsun> yes
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<Fujitsu> I've not once seen that used.
<crimsun> on the other hand, you also have to consider whether it really makes sense to break out the images into a separate package
<Fujitsu> Isn't that somewhat like Suggests?
<minghua> no, enhance is the other way
<Adri2000> it seems really confused for the existing packages, some recommends, other depends
<minghua> a suggests b usually means b should enhance a
<Fujitsu> minghua: Oh, of course.
<Fujitsu> Silly me.
* Fujitsu attacks packages.debian.org.
<Fujitsu> It hasn't updated in at least 4 days.
<Adri2000> crimsun: the images/ directory is 1,8M
<minghua> Adri2000: and how large is everything else?
<Fujitsu> Isn't the limit 2.5M or so?
<crimsun> pssht, limit. :-)
<Adri2000> 3,3M    homebank-3.2/
<Adri2000> 1,8M    homebank-3.2/images/
<minghua> I won't split if I am the maintainer
<Fujitsu> The limit for /usr/share in an architecture-specific package is 2.5MB, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> So you should be fine with just one package.
<crimsun> I wouldn't split images simply because it doesn't make any sense
<minghua> Fujitsu: I don't think there is a hard limit, just guidelines, I believe
<Adri2000> just to have arch-indep separated from arch-dep
<mr_pouit> I am not sure, but lintian complains upon a certain limit (if usr/share it too big in the package)
<Adri2000> what about the ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} dependencies of -data?
<minghua> by definition you shouldn't have ${shlibs:Depends} for arch independent packages
<Adri2000> ok
<Lutin> if I use tarball.mk to package something, do I have to make it build-depend on libbz2 ?
<plugwash> i thought it was bzip2 you needed to depend on
<Lutin> that's it
<Lutin> thanks
<plugwash> but only if you are using a bzipped tarball
<Adri2000> reviewers needed: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3399 :)
<ajmitch> Adri2000: homebank-data description is very unhelpful
<tag> how can I get a list of which packages are currently installed ?
<bddebian> dpkg -l
<Adri2000> ajmitch: yeah, just noticed that, I'm re-uploading
<ajmitch> apart from that, I haven't noticed anything wrong on a 30-second drive-by review
<tag> sweet
<Adri2000> ajmitch: "Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de" it doesn't want to re-upload :/
<ajmitch> -f
<Adri2000> ah yes, I forgot that
<Adri2000> ajmitch: it's ok now
<Adri2000> I think the description can be improved, any suggestion is welcome :p
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: The description (both short and long) of homebank-data
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> It should mention it's the data package.
<Fujitsu> Rather than being the same as homebank.
<fbond> crimsun, ping?
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see it's in the long description...
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: yep, I looked at a few -data packages, seems there is no standard for that...
<Fujitsu> Add ` - data files' to the end, or something like that.
<Adri2000> ok
<Fujitsu> Looks good, except for that, and two files missing copyright headers.
<Fujitsu> (src/colormap.h and src/enums.h)
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: I will re-upload tomorrow for the -data description and I will ask upstream about this two files
<Adri2000> these*
<Fujitsu> OK, it looks rather good so far.
<Adri2000> :)
<crimsun> fbond: pong
<fbond> crimsun, interesting factoids I thought you might have an opinion on:
<fbond> usbfs is getting mounted correctly on my edgy system with no changes to /etc/fstab
<fbond> it is being mounted under /proc/bus/usb (I had been told it should be mounted under /dev/bus/usb ... ?)
<fbond> it is mounted when the udev rules trigger the midisport firmware to be loaded
<crimsun> good
<crimsun> that's the correct thing
<crimsun> I don't know if it will go away or stay
<fbond> neat; I will still mention it to Scott
<fbond> the other thing, and I'm not sure exactly what to make of this:
<fbond> the firmware doesn't get loaded properly the first time udev is started, at boot time
<fbond> I have to explicitly restart udev for it to do the right hting
<fbond> s/hting/thing/
<fbond> obviously some delay before the hardware is ready ... ?
<crimsun> nope, that's the precise issue I'm talking about
<crimsun> you don't need to restart udev
<crimsun> you just need to unplug and replug the device
<fbond> well, either will work...
<crimsun> [after /dev/bus/usb is mounted] 
<fbond>  /proc/bus/usb?
<crimsun> the issue is that the fw loader isn't getting a correct reference because /dev/bus/usb isn't mounted
<crimsun> /proc/bus/usb is deprecated
<crimsun> you need to use /dev/bus/usb instead if you're going to use fstab(5)
<crimsun> all supported ubuntu kernels (2.6.1[2579] ) do this properly with the fstab(5) syntax
<crimsun> (err, well I suppose 2.6.19 isn't supported yet)
<fbond> ok.  then /proc/bus/usb shouldn't be getting auto-mounted ... ?
<crimsun> no, it's fine if it is
<crimsun> it's likely legacy support, but you'll want to check w/ Scott
<fbond> ok, but /dev/bus/usb needs to be mounted prior to udev being started?
<fbond> is there some document that explains any of this stuff?
<crimsun> no, either /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb (latter preferred) prior to the _firmware loader_ being executed
<fbond> the firmware loader gets executed when udev starts if the device is plugged in at boot time
<fbond> ( right ?)
<crimsun> it's executed when the rule executes it
<crimsun> SYSFS{idVendor}=="0763", SYSFS{idProduct}=="2806", \
<crimsun>         RUN+="/usr/local/share/usb/maudio/madfuload -l -3 -f /usr/local/share/usb/maudio/ma006100.bin"
<crimsun> that's my /etc/udev/rules.d/91_maudio_dfu.rules
<crimsun> (well, not all of it)
<fbond> but ... doesn't udev actually trigger that ?
<fbond> kernel -> udev -> rule ?
<crimsun> udev processes the kernel event; it doesn't trigger it
<crimsun> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30920/  is the rule file
<fbond> kernel events that happen prior to udev starting get processed by udev when udev starts ... right?
<fbond> so, usbfs needs to be mounted prior to udev starting ?  what am I missing here?
<crimsun> usbfs does not need to be mounted prior to udev starting
<fbond> oh ... the event will trigger when usbfs is mounted?
<fbond> if usbfs is not mounted when udev is started, when does the event trigger?
<crimsun> no, when the plug event occurs
<fbond> and if the device is plugged in prior to power up?
<crimsun> so sometime after the driver for the usb controller is loaded
<fbond> oh
<fbond> I don't think the midisport devices work like that...
<crimsun> they do
<fbond> the driver doesn't recognize them until _after_ the firmware is loaded, I think....
<crimsun> which "driver" are you referring to?
<fbond> snd_usb_audio
<crimsun> right
<crimsun> before the firmware is uploaded, they're seen as holding devices
<fbond> ok, we're stepping outside my realm of understanding...
<crimsun> once the firmware is uploaded, the firmware loader will issue a bus reset
<fbond> i see
<fbond> so it's a simple usb-serial device that triggers the whole process ... ?
<crimsun> there used to be a bug prior to 2.6.8.1
<crimsun> yep
<fbond> interesting
<fbond> this I can understand
<crimsun> a bug reset would freeze the machine
<crimsun> s/bug/bus/
<fbond> ew .... not good
<fbond> I didn't start using my midisport with Ubuntu until after 2.6.12
<crimsun> no. we used to have to boot into Windows, get the firmware loaded, then warm reboot into Linux
<fbond> ug
<crimsun> yes, fun for the entire family and then some
<fbond> heheh
<fbond> ok, so as long as /dev/bus/usb is mounted in /etc/fstab, everything will work out just dandy?  (I thought I tried that, but now I'm not so sure)...
<crimsun> either /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb, yes
<crimsun> the latter is preferred
<fbond> terrific, I have an updated README.Debian that should work fine for now ...
<fbond> although I hope for OOB support for /dev/bus/usb in feisty; will speak with Scott about this.
<fbond> crimsun, one more thing:
<fbond> as far as Scott is concerned, is the solution changing the default /etc/fstab ?
<crimsun> fbond: unlikely, though I certainly can't (and won't) speak for him
<fbond> ok, I will just see what he thinks...
<fbond> thanks for your input
<crimsun> np
* Mez anyone want to play some UT2004? ping me
<crimsun> uhh
<Hawkwind> crimsun: It's a message he sends to every channel he's in, slightly annoying IMO
<crimsun> right, I got many, many of them
<Mez> Hawkwind, actually - I dont know where the /ame came from - it was meant to go to a channel on another server
<crimsun> it's ok, we're used to spam on this network ;-)
<asabil> hi all
<sladen> ello asabil
<giskard> hello asabil
<asabil> how are you ?
<Simon80> if I package bleeding edge sources for something, where would be the most appropriate place to share that?
<Simon80> that something being stepmania
<superm1> Simon80, revu
<Simon80> even though it's straight from latest cvs?
<superm1> well from CVS no...
<superm1> we should get a regular package in first
<superm1> and then if there is a justifiable reason
<superm1> for CVS
<superm1> and its proven stable and such
<Simon80> well, when I have time I can backport it, 3.9's not bad, the question would be copyright issues, what with it being a DDR clone
<Simon80> I dunno
<Simon80> not sure how that gets treated
<superm1> well the app is GPL
<Simon80> MIT, actually
<superm1> oh it is
<Simon80> yep, cept for libmad
<superm1> i havent looked that cloesly
<superm1> i was toying with packaging it myself for a bit
<superm1> and got caught up with other things
<Simon80> yeah, took me four evenings, haha
<superm1> well scratch that off my todo list then :)
<Simon80> cause it's my first, cause it takes a year to build, no free time, and um, need to make it homedir friendly
<Simon80> mostly cause I was learning how to package though
<Simon80> I can do rpm and ebuilds, but that was my first deb
<superm1> well an acceptable solution for now can just be to make it writable by a user with in the "games" group
<superm1> or something
<Simon80> yeah
<superm1> and then all people in the games group can write to /usr/lib/games/stepmania
<superm1> or somethign
<superm1> like that
<lophyte> wait...
<lophyte> stepmania is available for linux?
<Simon80> hahaha
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> yup :)
<lophyte> sweet!
<superm1> long time no see lophyte
<Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/
<lophyte> now all I need is a PS2->USB converter that works with Linux and I'm set
<lophyte> indeed :)
<lophyte> how's it going
<Simon80> yeah, I got mine from lik-sang, you shouldn't have driver issues
<superm1> been busy with myth stuff when i have free time
<superm1> we have a team going now, but its taking off slowly
<Simon80> anywho, if anyone wants to, it should be pretty easy to backport my changes
<Simon80> only 2 code patches
<superm1> what do you mean by changes?
<superm1> what kind of stuff did you change
<Simon80> err.. hard code dlopen path, a bunch of lines to look in home dir and /usr/share/games/stepmania for data
<superm1> oh okay
<Simon80> and then there's my rules file
<Simon80> nothing huge
<superm1> nothing major then
<Simon80> no
<superm1> this should be fairly compatible to 3.9 then
<Simon80> the thing I did different from other distros is they add a line to "Mount" a folder in your home dir to "/" of stepmania's wierd filesystem abstraction, but I changed that to mounting subdirs , and mounting the /usr/share/games/stepmania dir to "/"
<superm1> i can tell you though already, be sure to include a bit more about the MIT license in there and what distribution it allows
<Simon80> eh?
<superm1> the copyright file is fairly important
<Simon80> well, I install it with the package, afaik
<superm1> ah yes
<superm1> Docs/Licenses.txt
<superm1> well when this is submitted to revu, a motu may still not be satisfied with this
<superm1> because the copyright file is supposed to be downloadable seperate from the package
<Simon80> oh
<superm1> to read exact details about the license its under
<Simon80> hehe, see, I have things to learn
<superm1> well i'm still learning too
<Simon80> oh, I see, you mean like, docs/COPYRIGHT
<superm1> just a virtuous teaching cycle
<superm1> the other thing too - that i was holding off on packaging because is that the data and source are different archives for 3.9
<superm1> so you will have to have two seperate archives
<superm1> with seperate debian/rules
<superm1> and seperate source packages
<Simon80> well, I avoided that by checking out cvs sources and making one package
<Simon80> you can do that with 3.9
<Simon80> I dunno how to make multiple binary packages yet either, I can learn but I don't have enough time
<superm1> that *should* be acceptable "rolls eyes"
<superm1> if there are any MOTUs in the room that can speak up for this right now it'd be good
<superm1> oh and something else too
<superm1> the version number your using wouldnt be acceptable
<Simon80> yeah, for cvs
<superm1> well more so for the suffixes missing
<Simon80> oh, ubuntu1?
<superm1> it needs to be UPSTREAM-0ubuntu1
<Simon80> how do you handle cvs versions?
<superm1> the 0 constitutes that its not in debian and the ubuntu1 for the first ubuntu version
<superm1> there was chatter about that a week or two ago, but i dont remember what the exact consensus was on it
<Simon80> hehe
<superm1> let me see if i still hvae that chat log
<Simon80> well, I know about that, but this package wasn't just gonna get uploaded, I initially just wanted to share it so people can give me tips like this, and also to allow ubuntu users the chance to get stepmania running
<Simon80> the reason I didn't do 3.9 is cause I selfishly wanted to try the cvs code out
<superm1> well its important to get the version numbers right even on personal builds
<superm1> so that if people use it and then it gets added to ubuntu later
<superm1> they can "upgrade" still
<Simon80> yeah, it's true.. but that's more about the upstream version
<superm1> so say if you have a patch for a package that is at 3.0-1ubuntu3, you should name it 3.0-1ubuntu3unofficial1
<superm1> yea
<superm1> well the logs aren't on this machine, and i dont have access to my other machine where i'm at
<superm1> can you think of a package that uses a CVS snapshot?
<Simon80> ffmpeg
<Simon80> but that's at 0.cvs..
<Simon80> with an epoch of 3
<superm1> i still dont personally understand the epoch thing....
<superm1> or better yet how that works in the versioning scheme
<Simon80> it's an override if you need to force upgrade even though the actual version "seems" lower to dpkg
<Simon80> so if upstream changes ver scheme, you can still have it look like an upgrade
<Simon80> any other use of it is frowned upon
<superm1> so its kinda like a hack then to move up the scheme when you mess up the version to start :)
<Simon80> well, not you, the upstream
<superm1> well ttf-freefont
<superm1> 20060601cvs-6
<superm1> so the checkoutdate
<superm1> cvs
<superm1> and then regular revisioning
<superm1> and there are plenty of packages that dont even add that cvs to it
<Simon80> I'm thinking there's no standard, as long as users will get the upgrade when you switch to a release ver
<superm1> yea thats what i'm gathering scrolling through synaptic too
<superm1> i think there was just a personal MOTU preference that someone brought up then when this came up
<superm1> do you know if this builds on amd64?
<Simon80> uhhhhhhh... not off the top of my head
<Simon80> I'll look at the ebuild for 3.9
<superm1> mkay, just wondering since you used architecture any
<superm1> and i've got an amd64 sitting at an appt
<Simon80> oh, um... yeah, oops I guess?
<Simon80> yeah, gentoo says ~x86 ~zmd64 ~ppc ;D
<Simon80> amd*
<superm1> okay cool then
<superm1> thats great to hear
<superm1> how stable is this checkout that you got?
<superm1> stable enough for usage?
<Simon80> stable enough to have fun :)
<Simon80> but there is some prefs weirdness
<superm1> hehe, but no crashes or what not right?
<superm1> oh
<Simon80> ummmm
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> well, graphics crash which is I believe not stepmania's fault, I'm on r300
<Simon80> ...err.. r200 too
<Simon80> didn't bother to see if q3 crashes too.. on restart of context or whatever
<Simon80> and the sound options seems to crash it
<Simon80> but 3.9 was fine
<Simon80> I did useit, just not debbed
<superm1> well at this point, i'd really like to see this submitted as a package on revu.  if you do the checkout at 3.9
<superm1> i can help you modify it to break into several packages
<superm1> so that there would be a stepmania and stepmania-data
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> heh
<Simon80> there's not really much data, but yeah, that makes sense, cause the binary is arch dependent
<superm1> if you've got the time, i can walk you thru, if not, i'll grab your sources and go thru it myself in the next coming days
<Simon80> well, I'll do it sometime, but if you're in a rush, better do it yourself, otherwise give me a week if that's ok
<Simon80> not that I need a whole week, it's prolly a quick job
<superm1> well i've got a few other things that i wanted to clean up packaging wise first
<Simon80> if I can keep my home dir stuff... otherwise I'll do the home dir in the one line mount that gentoo uses
<superm1> that i've got on my plate
<Simon80> ok
<superm1> are you on #ubuntu-motu often?
<Simon80> first time
<superm1> ah
<Simon80> I'll keep coming on though
<Simon80> already in dri-devel
<Simon80> often
<superm1> well seems you picked up pretty quickly on this for a first package
<Simon80> yeah, I'm anti dirty-hack
<superm1> me too
<superm1> i despise people who make install source packages
<Simon80> thanks though, good to hear confirmation that my perfectionism pays off
<superm1> and dont at least have the decency to checkinstall
<Simon80> haha
<superm1> its just asking for trouble to spew binaries across a system in my opinion
<Simon80> well, I dunno, checkinstall is a bit stiff, if it was MY system they aren't checkinstalling on, ok, not nice, but like, with modules, checkinstall fails
<superm1> well with modules, you have module assistant
<superm1> for some things
<Simon80> ...oh
<Simon80> yeah
<superm1> like ivtv and lirc and such
<Simon80> so it doesn't do everything
<Simon80> cause.. qc-usb-messenger
<superm1> yea doesnt do everything
<superm1> needs a debian style module package installed in /usr/src to work correctly
<superm1> but with the module packages in place, its a beaut
<Simon80> mmhmm
<Simon80> just haven't bothered to figure it out yet
<Simon80> it's always a matter of time with me
<superm1> okay, well catch back up with me in a few days (sometime mid week next week) and I can either help you through getting this broken up into a few packages or take over and finish it up /submit it to revu and such
<Simon80> I only first tried out any linux at all aug 2005, lol
<Simon80> that's me bragging about that, btw, though I wish I'd tried earlier
<Simon80> :D
<Simon80> alright
<superm1> if not me, there are plenty of very smart MOTUs that frequent the channel at all hours (except the last 5 days with UDS)
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> ooh
<Simon80> summit?
<superm1> yea
<superm1> thats why things have been dead so much this last week
<superm1> around here
<Simon80> ah, I wasn't in though
<superm1> well even tonite
<Simon80> but yeah, seemed dead just now
<Simon80> yeah
<superm1> okay well, off to bed with me.  catch ya on soon
<Simon80> ok
<Fujitsu> superm1: You said the dirty word up there... :P
<superm1> hehe hey Fujitsu , you give Simon80 some advice with my departing?
<Fujitsu> Sure, ask away, Simon80.
<superm1> okay night then.
<Fujitsu> (I even have some experience with StepMania, but not for a couple of years)
<Simon80> eh, I don't really have anything to ask though, hehe, just need to work on it, unless you can say how best to version a cvs package
<Simon80> the DMG is a bit lacking in that department, unless I just need to read more carefully
<Fujitsu> I'd say [current-stables-version] +cvs.[date] -0ubuntu1 is the best bet.
<Fujitsu> *stable
<Simon80> hmm
<Simon80> yeah, so that's > current but < next
<Simon80> right?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> And for a release candidate, it'd be [version-this-is-an-RC-for] ~rcX-0ubuntu1, for example.
* minghua likes cvs[date]  without dot better, but that's just personal preference
<Simon80> .....is that cause ~ is less and + is more? this is all just a result of ascii comparison, right?
<Simon80> yeah, I like it without dot too
<Simon80> slightly
<Fujitsu> Not quite ASCII comparison.
<Fujitsu> Some of it is.
<Fujitsu> But ~ is less than an empty string.
<Fujitsu> So X~Y is less than plain X.
* Simon80 cracks open the policy manual
<minghua> Simon80: read dpkg(1) man page and search for --compare-version
<minghua> you don't really want to read the version number part of the policy... :-P
<Simon80> yea, it doesn't even mention ~
<Fujitsu> ~ is fairly new.
<Simon80> oh... months new? weeks?
<minghua> months new, in a sense
<Fujitsu> Months.
<Fujitsu> Although Debian's archive has supported it for just a few weeks, AFAIK.
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> how do I use this command, ie. how to quickly fetch the return value?
<Simon80> in bash
<Simon80> might as well ask, you must know.. otherwise I'd be poring over man bash
<minghua> Fujitsu: Debian's archive should have supported ~ for months
<Fujitsu> I saw an email fairly recently saying it was now supported...
* Fujitsu looks it up.
<minghua> Simon80: you need "echo $?"
<minghua> probably only 2-3 months
<Simon80> haha, thanks
<minghua> but I believe more than one month
<Fujitsu> Oh, you're right.
<Fujitsu> Mid-to-late August.
<Simon80> well then, ~ is nice, I can say 4.0~cvs20061106
<Fujitsu> Yep, that's what it's for.
<Fujitsu> I wasn't sure if the next version was going to be 4.0, though, so I went along the safe path with 3.9+
<Simon80> well, that's exactly what I would have wanted to use, but the DPM didn't mention it
<Simon80> and yeah, it's definitely not just 3.9+
<Simon80> has netplay, totally different theme, etc.
<Simon80> and some bugs :)
<Simon80> but it's 2 years later
<Simon80> 3.9 is 2 years old now
<Simon80> ..........I think?
<Simon80> I'm prolly wrong there actually, I'm going by cvs file age
<minghua> you want 3.9+cvs instead of 4.0~cvs
<minghua> version number is just a meaningless number
<Simon80> are you sure? it even goes so far as to call itself 4.0 CVS
<Simon80> in game
<Simon80> and yeah, the changelog for 3.9 is 13 mos old, sounds more correct than 2 years
<minghua> well, if you are sure there will not be a 4.0 beta, then I don't mind either way
<Simon80> oh, lol, cause of the cvs thing?
<Simon80> hmm
<Simon80> one could always go cvs314159+beta
<Simon80> see, now gentoo handles this stuff
<Simon80> they standardize on a few suffixes, I think pre, beta, rc
<Simon80> and r for after release
<Simon80> so how do I transfer to different upstream sources, is the best practice to just get the alt sources and copy debian/ into them?
<Fujitsu> Change into the current Debian package directory, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/tarball'
<Simon80> really? I thought that might have even been a stupid question
<Fujitsu> Yep, it's that easy.
<minghua> Fujitsu: is there a guide about playing with this multi-distribution-tool thing?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Not really, just work it out yourself, basically.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Hmm.  what is the bzr repo then?
* minghua starts to feel not quite confident
<Fujitsu> There's a basic example on the MultiDistroTools page on the wiki, but it doesn't do much.
<Fujitsu> (and the bzr repo is there too)
<minghua> okay, thanks Fujitsu
<minghua> BTW feisty is open for upload, right?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock has a branch with my patch at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/
<Fujitsu> It's been open for many a day.
<Fujitsu> I've done most of my merges.
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> merges are open now? :)
<Fujitsu> zakame: Yep.
<zakame> w00tness
<Fujitsu> I finally get to excercise my upload rights without a freeze in effect!
<zakame> rocking
<Fujitsu> *exercise
<minghua> Fujitsu: yes I've seen a bunch of mails from you on feisty-changes
<zakame> merges list in the usual place?
<Fujitsu> zakame: Yep.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Yes, and more coming soon, hopefully.
<minghua> BTW anybody care/able to change the channel topic, then?
<zakame> Fujitsu: cool, let me help out:)
<Fujitsu> minghua: Anybody can change it.
<zakame> erm, copy also copied the return :/
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Fujitsu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Feisty open for uploads
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<minghua> the UVF link can go too IMO
* Fujitsu chops UVF link out.
<Fujitsu> Yes, exactyl.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Fujitsu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | Feisty open for uploads
<Simon80> so is there a policy reason why <dist>-updates seems to never have meaty upstream updates in it?
<Fujitsu> Simon80: Stable releases don't get new upstream versions.
<zakame> well there's a next release, right? :)
<Fujitsu> (unless absolutely necessary)
<Simon80> ..yeah, thought so
<Simon80> just wasn't sure if that applied to uni
<Fujitsu> Universe updates were even less common than main ones until a week or so back.
<Simon80> but I think you tend to be overly conservative.. I mean, network manager in dapper was sort of broken
<Fujitsu> Because we had no policy.
<Simon80> but now I'm kind of digressing
<Simon80> that's not even MOTU
<Simon80> and possibly not even to do with not taking upstream updates
<Fujitsu> #ubuntu-motu is all about digression. There's rarely much on-topic chatter :P
<minghua> for less conservative place there is always -backports
<Simon80> that's true
<Simon80> but again, seems to be low traffic
<Fujitsu> -cue jarring chord-
<minghua> but I appreciate tending to err on the side of caution
<Simon80> oh, some good advice I can ask for, I've never figured out whether there's an easier way to gather build-deps than to try to compile on a naked install, or pore through the configure.ca
<minghua> (is that correct English by the way?)
<Simon80> ac*
<Fujitsu> Dapper /is/ supported for 5 years, remember.
<Simon80> lol
<Fujitsu> minghua: That English is fine.
<Simon80> on the server, only
<Fujitsu> And 3 for desktop.
<Simon80> not sure how they can say a certain package is server or not
<Fujitsu> Simon80: They've got 2.5 years to decide, I guess.
<Simon80> ah, pbuilder seems to do what I'm thinking
<Simon80> naked chroot
<Simon80> wasn't sure
<minghua> LOL at the "2.5 years to decide"
<Simon80> I love packaging.. I mean, compared to windows, it sucks that upstream doesn't always provide even source packages, but at the same time, linux package management kicks the crap out of running some dude's unsigned setup.exe just to get yourself some free screensavers... *shudder*
<Simon80> free as in spyware
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Simon80> not that I don't totally despise windows, lol, growing up with it was enough to do that
<Fujitsu> Evening, Burgundavia.
<Simon80> once I tried ubuntu, I realized it was possible for me to at least transition some of my stuff away from windows... within a few months I was barely booting windows, but I still had some unsratched itches
<Simon80> other than WPA, that's pretty much dealt with by now
<Simon80> oh.. and dri
<Simon80> sucking
<Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
<Simon80> I'l stop talking OT now :)
<Fujitsu> Simon80: What graphics chipset?
<Simon80> r300
<Simon80> M10
<Simon80> I want it to be better
<Simon80> I'm tired of fglrx like I'm tired of windows
<Fujitsu> fglrx really does suck, I know.
<Simon80> I tried the latest ver just to grab a reg value, and it locks up consistently on X exit
* Fujitsu hugs his integrated Intel card. Not great for 3D stuff, but it doesn't need proprietary stuff.
<Simon80> never had a release of that that didn't have some logout bug
<zakame> still great for d games though :D
<Simon80>  d games?
<Simon80> I have an i810 that I briefly test drove with quake3, so I realize yeah, intel is a better choice for that
<Simon80> if that was any indication as to support for their newer sets
<zakame> right
* minghua made sure he chose the intel graphic card for his new laptop
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> well, when I got my lappy, I didn't know or care about these issues
<Burgundavia> what about those rumours of ATI releasing specs?
<Simon80> I'm hardcore now though, one could consult me on hardware purchasing, I think
<Simon80> I'm waiting for that
<minghua> yeah, maybe "made sure not to chose extra ATI graphic card" is more close to the truth :-P
<Simon80> I mean, compatibility wise
<Simon80> ...I'm not all that knowledgeable about it actually, wireless wise, I can say whether a chipset has a driver, but I don't know which ones will work with NM and WPA
<Simon80> that'd be nice to know
<Simon80> ....I do have WPA working on my 770 though :D
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Which rumours?
<Simon80> amd buyout...
* minghua wants to start merging work too
<minghua> now only if I can manage to install edgy on my desktop
<Simon80> As for open driver support, Cherry says that things have gotten better in the last year, particularly with improved support for wireless devices and better support for video cards. He also says that "we have confirmation" that ATI is moving towards opening up its capabilities for video drivers since the company's acquisition by AMD.
* minghua sighs
<Simon80> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/10/11/1355201
<Simon80> I'd say that's more than a rumour
<Simon80> just a matter of waiting for their big post merge press release
<Fujitsu> That'll be nice...
<Simon80> but either way, specs aren't enough, and also, the other thing I heard was a "functional subset"
<Simon80> so.. yeah, till my M10 is as fast or faster on linux than on windows, I'm not happy
<Fujitsu> Specs are enough, though they're not ideal.
<Burgundavia> specs might lead to official support
<Burgundavia> did you see Keiths notes?
<zakame> hmm anyone else here encountered resume failures after hibernate?
<Fujitsu> If they open their specs/drivers, they can expect pretty much every Linuxer to move to them.
<Burgundavia> zakame: rock solid
<Fujitsu> zakame: I can't hibernate, due to my encrypted everything.
<Burgundavia> except that Nvidia is being agressive at tracking X changes now
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> yeah, nvidia is pretty good with the closed source I gather
<zakame> Burgundavia: I take that as OK right? :)
<Simon80> but not enough to be as good as windows in the last, admittedly not recent, benches I've seen
<Burgundavia> zakame: I have seen resume failures
<Simon80> I think that's a year ago now though, kind of irrelevant
<Burgundavia> zakame: no resume failures, rather
<zakame> waah :(
<Simon80> btw, for wireless, I recommend motorola's wr850G, great product so far
<Simon80> router/ap
<Fujitsu> I recommend an appropriately configured Dapper box with a lot of NICs.
<Simon80> not doing much with it though, it's being used as a wired/wireless AP
<zakame> well my kubuntu here doesn't resume properly, kernel (or is it initrd) can just seem to see the image on swap upon resume
<Simon80> and lol @ Fujitsu, I'm sure that'd cost more than 32CAD
<Fujitsu> I had a spare box sitting around, I needed to move services off the family computer.
<Simon80> and I dunno which NICs have drivers that can do master mode well
<Simon80> come to think of it, I'd make a pretty bad consultant on wireless hardware..
<Simon80> and linux
<Fujitsu> It's got Dapper installed, runs 4 NICs (wireless LAN, internet, wired LAN, and an extra LAN one 'cause the switch is too small), does Apache, DHCP, DNS, MySQL, mail, internal file sharing, and more!
<Fujitsu> All for the grand price of nothing.
<Simon80> how nothing? I don't see my local staples selling these wonderboxen for free
<Burgundavia> Simon80: I don't see you in #ubuntu-ca
<Simon80> hmm.. should I be?
<Burgundavia> yes. Otherwise my goon squad will come after you
<Simon80> lol
* Burgundavia continues to grow his loco team via threats and intimidation
<Simon80> lol
<zakame> bring it on
<Simon80> oh god, shaw cable... I guess it can't be that bad, but we had a bad roger's connection for a while, used to be shaw before that switchup
<Simon80> ..just commenting on your ISP
<Burgundavia> shaw is better than telus
<Simon80> I wouldn't really know
<Simon80> but I switched to Bell, way faster, lower latency too
<Burgundavia> nothing but Telus and Shaw out here
<Simon80> yeah, rogers/bell here
<Simon80> you must be out west?
<Simon80> or east, I dunno
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> not gonna go look it up
<Simon80> the areas that shaw does, I mean
<Burgundavia> victoria, bc
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> see? west.. lol
<Fujitsu> Simon80: The box and WAP were obsolete at school, so I grabbed 'em.
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> lol, there's this one box at work today, would turn right back on if the OS powered it off
<Simon80> hard shutoff worked though
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Simon80> yeah, it's like, desktop -> server, lol
<Simon80> it's high-availability... even if you don't want it to be
<minghua> bedtime for me
<minghua> bye everyone
<Simon80> bye
<Simon80> I should sleep
<Simon80> I'll put up a properly versioned stepmania package tomorrow.. stepmania-3.9 sometime to follow
<Fujitsu> Bye, Simon80.
<Simon80> bye
* Burgundavia stirs shit
* nixternal puts salt on it to make it taste better
* Simon80 makes a turd sandwich out of the rat materials graciously presented by members of the ubuntu packaging community
<nixternal> hehe
<Simon80> you can find it on REVU
<Simon80> lol
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i see what you are stirring
<Burgundavia> lets see what that stirs up
<nixternal> it is true though
<Burgundavia> nixternal: do you have my direct rss or something?
<nixternal> no, i had an idea of where you might be stirring
<nixternal> but i have you bookmarked
<Burgundavia> hint: binary
<nixternal> hehe
<Simon80> ?
<nixternal> look towards the planet
<Burgundavia> that bright shining light is me
* Burgundavia is full of himself this evening
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> ah well, bed time for me
<nixternal> g'nite
<Simon80> omg, they're shipping binary shit in feisty?
<Simon80> err.. stirring*
<poningru> nixternal: nn
<Simon80> night
* Fujitsu stirs up some LP controversy.
* Fujitsu applauds Burgundavia on that blog post.
<poningru> I dont see it
<poningru> nm
<Fujitsu> It's not on Planet yet.
<robitaille> http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/
<Simon80> yeah, seriously, I agree completely, and would rather not compromise those ideals for the sake of that stuff working by default
<Fujitsu> But Burgundavia's blog posts are always rather good, so I subscribe to that feed :)
<robitaille> and  planet finally picked it up just now
* poningru hugs Burgundavia 
* Burgundavia hugs poningru
<Simon80> well, damn right, I like the example too
* Fujitsu goes off to eat something.
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Agree 100%
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: sad reality is that compiz/beryl do offer some cool accessibility things
<TheMuso> Why is that a sad reality?
<Burgundavia> because for it to truly work, we do need good 3d drivers
<TheMuso> Right.
<Simon80> ok, so, rephrased, the sad reality is that the open source drivers are woefully inadequate
<Burgundavia> and those ATI/AMD specs are not going to make Feisty, I bet
<Simon80> you never know, they have till feb
<Simon80> but like, they'd need more than specs by then
<Burgundavia> and in that time they need to release the specs and then write the drivers
<TheMuso> Intel really should make their video chipsets dedicated cards.
<Simon80> cause like, at least one dev has some for of nda info
<Simon80> hasn't miraculously made things better
<TheMuso> I don't care if intel doesn't perform as well as ATI/NVIDIA, as I don't need the card to be powerful enough for games etc.
<TheMuso> I'd gladly install Intel cards in any new machine I build.
<Burgundavia> I am glad I have an intel card in this laptop
<Burgundavia> my desktop machine, with its ATI, is almost never on these days
<Simon80> hehe
<Simon80> well, mine is, but with r300 only
<Burgundavia> my 9600 could probably do r300, but I haven't bothered, since I am on it about once every two or three weeks
<Simon80> yeah
<TheMuso> So if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?
<Simon80> I have an M10
<Simon80> .......aka mobility 9600
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: A good question...
<TheMuso> I'm glad that the only machine I have that needs binary blobs is my notebook.
<Hobbsee_> hey TheMuso, Fujitsu
* Hobbsee_ wonders what the question was
<Fujitsu> Morning Hobbsee_.
<TheMuso> But as it is, just about all new notebooks running Linux today need a binary blob of some sort to be fully usable.
<Fujitsu> <TheMuso> So if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?
<Simon80> err.. this is OT and somewhat nosy, but are there two sarah hobbs'?
<Hobbsee> gah, it did connect.  wonder what was said
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Burgundavia> morning Hobbsee
<Simon80> Sarah Hobbs*
<Hobbsee> Simon80: nope, only one.  my client didnt connect in properly.  why?
<Fujitsu> Sarah Hobbses, you mean? :P
<Simon80> sure
<Hobbsee> Simon80: i think there's only one sarah to do with ubuntu, actually
<Fujitsu> Or Sarahs Hobbs?
<Hobbsee> :P
<Simon80> yeah, I mean in meatspace
<Simon80> ......err, actually, the opposite, I mean on google ;)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the 3945 is getting free firmware?  that's why mine was recognised out of the box?  way cool!
<Hobbsee> Simon80: most of the hobbsee's on google are me, and i'm none of the sarah hobbs' on there
<Hobbsee> unless they're specifically to do with ubuntu or something
<Simon80> lol, the artist
<TheMuso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverEducation
* Hobbsee cannot draw, and is not of the art type
<TheMuso> has it mentioned down the page a bit.
<Simon80> oh man, it's not drawing, oh no
<Hobbsee> sorry, photography
<zakame> yo Hobbsee
<Simon80> no need to apologise, I'm just amused by a shelf full of similar plants being exhibited
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: in the case of that, i'm of the opinion that if my wifi card works OOTB, i'm happy.  i dont really care if its' free or not free.  if it uses ndiswrapper, then that's good, but that's still a pain - and that's what i view as more troublesome.
<Hobbsee> Simon80: :)
* Hobbsee didnt think anyone would google for her under sarah hobbs
<Fujitsu> My Launchpad page is on the 3rd page for "william grant"
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: If I have no choice, I will use hardware with binary blob drivers, however I prefer to use completely free and open driver code.
<Simon80> sorry, lol, I google people a lot, it's a bit nosy, I'd say
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true
<Hobbsee> Simon80: it's fine.  i'm very careful what i put online anyway
<Burgundavia> clearly all you need two things 1) less common names 2) more google juice
<TheMuso> Other software, such as software synthesizers however, are a different story./
<Burgundavia> I am nearly every hit for Corey Burger
<Fujitsu> Gah, stupid evil search results like `The boundary of Sir William Alexander's grant was therefore to be...'
<Simon80> err.. found your age
<Simon80> Hobbsee: ^
<Simon80> I suppose that's no biggie
<Hobbsee> Simon80: what is it?
<TheMuso> Put Luke Yelavich in, and I can pretty much assure you that at least the first couple of pages are hits to do with archives etc that I have been involved with over the last three and a bit years.
<Simon80> Hobbsee: 18?
<Hobbsee> Simon80: wow, so that is there
* Hobbsee wonders where that was
<Simon80> oh, you didn't intentionally publish? lol
<Hobbsee> well, i say various bits in these channels
<Simon80> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=35199
<Hobbsee> ohhhh...right
<Simon80> geez, I wish I was using linux when I was 18
<Hobbsee> speaking of which, i want to see 915resolution be integrated into main and the installer
<Hobbsee> (not having looked at the code)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Do you have a new laptop now?
<joejaxx> Hello All
<Hobbsee> because it's the only thing that gets my laptop working at correct resolution - and it works every time
<TheMuso> Sounds like it
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Cool!
<crimsun> (I think you want the modesetting branch of i810 merged instead)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: only 3 things dont working out of the box
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Cool.
<Burgundavia> I was going to point that out as well
<Hobbsee> crimsun: quite possibly.  whatever lets me use 1280x800 natively
<Hobbsee> crimsun: nothing in edgy, apart from the 915resolution does
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you want the modesetting branch
<crimsun> xserver-xorg-video-intel in universe does.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: right
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i didnt find that helped?  not sure
* Fujitsu just merged 915resolution, the automatic stuff got accepted by the Debian maintainer! Yay.
<crimsun> it worked for me, but it has significant bugs on VT switch that can either lock the machine or spur a restart of the X server
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I don't think that got the right resolution for me either...
<Fujitsu> 915resolution works for now :)
<crimsun> xserver-xorg-video-intel in edgy/universe is 1.6.0; Debian Sid's xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting is a git snapshot from Oct 14th that fixes many of those issue
<Simon80> holy crap: https://launchpad.net/people/hobbsee/+packages
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> that is all
<Hobbsee> Simon80: hahaha
<Hobbsee> most of them were when i was *not* a MOTU
<Simon80> what do you mean?
<Hobbsee> Simon80: ie, when i still had to get other people to upload them
<Simon80> as in this list is largely incomplete?
<crimsun> fbond: as of feisty's 2.6.19-5.7, because there's no matching udev yet, the event handling seems a bit odd. I have to restart udev as you mentioned.
<Hobbsee> Simon80: no, the list is incomplete
<Hobbsee> Simon80: i was more saying "most of those i had to get other people to upload for me"
<Hobbsee> Simon80: oh, and that list doesnt include all the syncs that i've requested, either
<Simon80> hobbsee: "the list is incomplete" - you mean complete?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: In most cases it does include syncs.
<Hobbsee> Simon80: sorry, yeah
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: really?  i didnt think so
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought taht just got attributed to the syncer
<Fujitsu> It gets attributed to you, except when the archive admin puts in in the wrong name.
<Fujitsu> (which generally only happens for sponsorships)
<Simon80> what do you mean by sync?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: For example:
<Fujitsu> libqalculate   Ubuntu Edgy   0.9.4-5
<Fujitsu> Simon80: Import a package from Debian Sid without changes.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh, okay
<Simon80> ah
<Fujitsu> Only 209 Edgy uploads, Hobbsee. Not good enough.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Simon80> lol
<Hobbsee> yeah, and fewer feisty ones
<Hobbsee> (holy strike - that many?)
<Fujitsu> 50 Dapper ones...
<Fujitsu> 4 Feisty...
<Simon80> I'm very age competitive, this sort of thing bugs me a tiny bit
<Simon80> I see it and go dammit! outdone again!
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> ...cause I'm 20, see
<Fujitsu> Ah, but I'm 15 :P
<Simon80> hahaha
<Burgundavia> you young whippersnappers
<Simon80> oh, oh no, you're serious?
<Burgundavia> us old farts are nearly in our wheelchairs
* Fujitsu whippersnaps Burgundavia.
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: do you use any non-source packages?
<Fujitsu> Simon80: Yep.
* crimsun hobbles around with his walker
<Simon80> dammit!
<joejaxx> Simon80: ! :D
<Fujitsu> I've got 1 Breezy, 2 Dapper, 130 Edgy, 10 Feisty.
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: madwifi
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  that's because i've looked at the merges and gone "i dont wan tto think about that yet"
<Simon80> how long have you two been at this sort of thing?
<Fujitsu> I've been at it since early July.
<Simon80> and you're already packaging?
* Hobbsee didnt do anyhting for breezy, except test a cd
<Simon80> both of you?
* Fujitsu looks up the logs of that occasion when he came in and asked how he could help.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: My Breezy upload was a security update a couple of months back.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: there is a fundamental difference between madwifi and the ati/nvidia drivers. First of all, madwifi already has Atheros involvement. 2nd, it is truly needed
<Simon80> I really should have gotten into this earlier, I did ebuilds first, and it seems impossible to get a new ebuild into their tree
<TheMuso> I've been doing stuff on and off for about 4-6 months packaging wise anyway
<Fujitsu> Simon80: I was approved as a MOTU a couple of months ago, so yes.
<TheMuso> I have been helping with other stuff in general for a lot longr.
<TheMuso> longer
<Simon80> ohh, you only got into packaging in early july? not linux related stuff in general?
<Simon80> cause I was more wondering how long you've been using *nix
<Hobbsee> since about july 05
<Simon80> aug 05 here
<TheMuso> Been using Linux since January 01 here.
<crimsun> august 06 :-)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> nice
<Hobbsee> crimsun: rubbish
<crimsun> shh.
<Simon80> well, I only made my first deb package this week :(
<Hobbsee> :P
<Simon80> it's for 1106 cvs source of stepmania
<Fujitsu> I'm February '01, or thereabouts.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thats rubbish and you know it.
<crimsun> shh.
<Simon80> any ddr geeks may want to check it out
<Fujitsu> @lart crimsun
<ubuntu-es> Fujitsu: Error: "lart" is not a valid command.
<TheMuso> hahahahaha
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i just do not see the difference between those two non-source packages
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: my blog post is primarily about companies joining the open source movement, rather than just non-source packages
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: oh ok
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: Atheros is already actively working on their Linux driver. Not shipping it really doesn't tell them anything
<Burgundavia> not shipping the ati/nvidia drivers has been a fairly clear message to ati and nvidia
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: I like the fact that the madwifi binary blob will be gone in the future
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: the free ath stuff?
<Burgundavia> I am skeptical about it
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: yeah
<TheMuso> One thing that worries me, is that companies who see others release GPL drivers, but binary firmware, will be encouraged to do the same thing, with the argument that they are making drivers available etc.
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: wireless drivers are a completely different kettle of fish, due to the fact that companies such as Intel, who has clearly shown they are a friend of open source, still have binary firmware
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: But they aren't really a friend of open source if they make binary firmware.
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah i guess
<TheMuso> Thats the way I see it anyway.
<TheMuso> Especially if they are taming up with the likes of MS to put in TPM modules in future gens of CPUs and mobo chipsets etc.
<Burgundavia> tpm is dead
<Burgundavia> it has failed in teh marketplace, which is where it needs to fail
<TheMuso> Any official data/web site to show that?
<Burgundavia> nobody is using it, even the new Vista and OS X
<TheMuso> Right.
<Burgundavia> if there was a place I expected to see it, it was Vista
<TheMuso> Yet will it still be a part of future computer hardware?
<Burgundavia> apple has already talked about removing it from their future computers
<TheMuso> If so, MS could easily turn around a release updates that forces vista to use it.
<TheMuso> Wow.
<Burgundavia> they could
<Burgundavia> but if nobody is using it, then it becomes something that can be removed to save money
<TheMuso> True.
<TheMuso> Well its good that it has failed then.
<Burgundavia> and when your margins as small as a hardware manufacturers are, even cents matter
<TheMuso> BUt how is it already known as a failure?
<Burgundavia> because it has been in existance for almost 5 years with absolutely no interest
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<Burgundavia> ie: the entire development time of Vista
<Fujitsu> TPM is used in Vista.
<TheMuso> I think some new notebooks come with it already.
<Fujitsu> BitLocker requires it.
<TheMuso> I vaguely remember seeing something about a security chip in my notebook's BIOS.
<Simon80> boo
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: not on mine, that i kjnow of :)
<Simon80> not on my 2 yo m6811 either
<Burgundavia> right, but bitlocker is how a tpm chip is supposed to be used
<Simon80> unless cpu serial counts
<Burgundavia> for end user encryption
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: True.
<Simon80> err... that's bad
<Simon80> get it useful for that
<Simon80> and then... once people NEED the tpms
<Simon80> you can fill in the rest
<Burgundavia> there are similar tools for OS X
<Burgundavia> OS X has clearly rejected the TPM. Linux will never have it
<Burgundavia> I am not worried
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: and bitlocker doesn't require tpm
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Last time I saw a screenshot (about a week ago), it did.
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLocker_Drive_Encryption
<Burgundavia> depends what you do with it
<Fujitsu> You know what would be nice to have in the near future? A nice GUI for setting up encrypted partitions in Ubuntu. Having usplash with a nice password/USB-drive prompt would be nice and shiny
<Burgundavia> better to do it in GDM, but ya
<Fujitsu> Encrypted root shouldn't be excluded as a use-case.
<Burgundavia> Fedora did some inital work to push GDM further down the chain, to replace their usplash equiv
<crimsun> fwiw, feisty's current uswsusp prompts the user on dist-upgrade whether (s)he wants to enable an enciphered partition
<TheMuso> I personally think any drive encryption is dangerous. The tech may be proven, but then there is the problem of data integrity, passwords/passphrases etc.
<Burgundavia> with upstart, that becomes more feasible
<crimsun> if yes is chosen, the user enters a passphrase
<Simon80> Fujitsu: I agree totally, but it's a question of how much work is involved thinking through the UI and implementing
<Simon80> got any DDR geeks in the crowd today?
<Simon80> .....for the reason I mentioned above
<Fujitsu> Simon80: I haven't played it in a couple of years, but I used to be able to do 9 or 10 feet in StepMania.
<Fujitsu> I have a friend who plays it constantly, though :P
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> yeah, 9-10 feet is pretty crazy
<Simon80> I'm at 5-7
<Fujitsu> Crazy? It's EASY!
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> :P
<Fujitsu> Have you uploaded those packages anywhere?
<Simon80> yeah, nobody asked
<Simon80> I even linked prolly
* Fujitsu reads back.
* Hobbsee dinners
<Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/
<Simon80> there goes my real name
<Simon80> boom
<Fujitsu> :O
<Simon80> in exchange for people seeing my meagre web page
<Simon80> which I use to waste time reading news, hehe
<Fujitsu> `Stepmania Debian package' gives a 404.
<Simon80> ah, I nuked my .htaccess, sorry
<Simon80> :)
<Simon80> one min
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did you follow any howto for encrypting everything?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: No.
<Fujitsu> cryptsetup isn't hard to work out.
<TheMuso> So did you have to set the partitions up with a live CD before you installed?
<Simon80> fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Simon80> .htaccess uploaded
<Simon80> if you added deb http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ ./ it would have worked anyhow.. but that's definitely no excuse
<Fujitsu> Heheh, thanks.
<Simon80> lets see if I can change versions through my little repo-ish thing
<Simon80> hrm, apparently 20061106 is newer than 4.0~cvs20061106?
* Simon80 pulls out dpkg
<Simon80> makes sense I guess, 4 < 20061106
<Simon80> new and improved over the other 20061105 versions of stepmania
<Simon80> ok, I'm actually going to bed now, this is insane
<Simon80> my fault, but like, during the week, I get up ~2.5 hours from now
<Simon80> my fault for staying up I mean
<Fujitsu> 'night.
<crimsun> some of these bugs are ridiculous (e.g., 71330)
<Fujitsu> bug #71330
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71330 in Ubuntu "Just installed latest NVIDIA driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9629-pkg1.run" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71330
<Fujitsu> Hahaha
* Fujitsu ponders setting up a bot which gets bug mail and looks for newly-rejected bugs with a `crack' tag, looks up the the submitter's Freenode nick (if any), and ridicules them in all Ubuntu-related channels they're in :P
<TheMuso> haha
<zakame> smoking-crack tag
<zakame> for borken translations its smoking-pot
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Sp4rKy> hi mr_pouit
<mr_pouit> hi Sp4rKy
<Hobbsee> hmmm...everyone left
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They do that.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :(
<Fujitsu> D:
<Fujitsu> Stupid timezones.
<TheMuso> Can't do much about timezones.
<Fujitsu> Sure we can.
<Fujitsu> Obliterate them.
<Fujitsu> UTC for all.
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<Hobbsee> who cares if it's bright sunshine at 3am?
<Hobbsee> and pitch black at 2pm?
<Fujitsu> Who cares!
<Fujitsu> It'd make things interesting!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> of course, there would then be no such thing as jetlag
<Fujitsu> Which would be convenient.
<Fujitsu> Imagine IRC, though... You'd have a set time where EVERYBODY was asleep.
<geser> is it ok to depend on xlibmesa-gl-dev or should this be changed to libgl1-mesa-dev?
<Hobbsee> geser: should be changed
<Hobbsee> geser: but if that's the only thing stopping a sync, i'd probably just sync it
<geser> thanks, that would explain the last comment on bug 71267
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71267 in guichan "[Merge]  guichan 0.4.0-4.1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71267
<Hobbsee> geser: yes, i'd say so
<zakame> finally found a solution to my hibernate bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/69208
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69208 in Ubuntu "Bug #42299 survives on upgrade from Dapper Drake to Edgy" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<chantra> hi there , is there any motu around
<Hobbsee> chantra: what for?
<zakame> for what?
<chantra> Hobbsee: cause i uploaded a package to revu
<chantra> but actually, the package is too much in an alpha state
<Hobbsee> chantra: what's the package name?  i can remove it if you want
<chantra> and has no point in being uploaded
<chantra> mysql-workbench
<chantra> Hobbsee:
<chantra> cheers
<Hobbsee> chantra: gone
<chantra> :)
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: here?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: in the changelog of transcalc (0.14-0ubuntu1): "Change dependencies to libgtk2.0-dev and libglib2.0-dev" but:
<Adri2000> apt-cache depends libgtk2.0-dev | grep libglib2.0-dev
<Adri2000>   Depends: libglib2.0-dev
<sladen> zakame: could you add your comments to that bug please
<zakame> sladen: #69208?
<zakame> just did a while ago
<zakame> although in my case, there already was an /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume file, containing just `RESUME='
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: I'm back now... They were like that in the old version, I just changed the versions... It's not caused any harm.
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ok, just noticing it :)
<Fujitsu> That new version has been out for 3 years, and the maintainer still hasn't updated the Debian package :(
<Adri2000> whoaw 3 years!
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> And another bug in that package has been open for 20 or so days short of 5 years...
<zakame> in need of serious RFA i think
<Fujitsu> Or an NMU. It's so obscure, I don't think anybody would adopt it.
<zakame> right, nmu
<zakame> or a removal, if popcon's low
<zakame> brb
<Fujitsu> We have at least one user in Ubuntu; a bug was filed which prompted me to update it.
<Fujitsu> 10598 in Debian popcon
* Fujitsu decides 1am is a good time to go to bed.
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, everybody!
<Adri2000> good night Fujitsu, tomorrow see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3401 ;)
<Fujitsu> I shall, Adri2000.
<rpedro> hi, does someone know how to get good debug info from HAL, or at least how to restart it without a reboot
<rpedro> it's this bug I reported a while ago : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/68574
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68574 in hal "Issue with (mostly) fat32 devices, and HAL fails to even initialize after new login" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Yagisan> palski, bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rats/+bug/63561 updated. happy hunting.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63561 in rats "Segmentation fault when auditing code" [Undecided,Needs info] 
<kiko-zzz> what's rats, Yagisan?
<Yagisan> kiko-zzz, its supposted to audit software for obvious secrity bugs
<kiko-zzz> ah, I see
<Yagisan> it just dies on some code I run it on
<Lutin> Hello
<ajmitch> morning
<Lutin> afternoon :)
<ajmitch> kiko-zzz: I won't have time to look & fix your bug before I get back, sorry :)
<kiko-zzz> ajmitch, bah! ok. :)
<Lutin> what's the policy about packaging programs coming from cvs ?
* Yagisan blinks. ajmitch here at 4am his time ?
<ajmitch> hey Yagisan
* ajmitch just got up
<Yagisan> hey mate. I'm sick as a dog, so I'm deleting^W reading my email
<ajmitch> ouch
<zakame> awww
<Lutin> no clue ?
<zakame> Lutin: on a per-package basis, iirc; we have REVU
<zakame> although its more desireable iirc to backport patches from cvs
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<Lutin> zakame: I mean, is there a policy on packaging _new_ programs coming from cvs
<zakame> I don't think there's a formal policy atm; new packages do need to be REVu-ed though
<Lutin> such as 'you can remove the 'CVS' dirs as you want', or 'you need to run make distcheck to have a clean source tarball'
<zakame> well you definitely want to remove the CVS dirs as that would break debian-policy (lintain will warn you)
<zakame> that is, you'd want a cvs export, not a cvs chekcout
<zakame> *checkout
<Lutin> zakame, ok
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<zakame> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello zakame
<minghua> Huh, triage is not an English word but a French one
<jdong> why does wxwidgets2.6 use gtk1 instead of gtk2?
<jdong> wait
<jdong> it doesn't
* jdong goes on to confuse himself more
<luisbg> jdong, Bug 70658
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70658 in audacity "depends on wxgtk2.4" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70658
<jdong> quick versioning question...
<jdong> if I were to, say, make a gaim beta5 package for impatient waiters, how should I version it so that debian sid packages would override it when made?
<jdong>       gaim | 1:2.0.0+beta4-4 |      unstable | source, i386
<minghua> 1:2.0.0+beta5~-1?
<minghua> (assuming debian maintainer keeps his version scheme)
<jdong> minghua: ok. Is there a set convention for these kinds of things?
<minghua> jdong: not in debian
<minghua> as only maintainer is supposed to know all the uploads except NMU
<minghua> s/only//
<jdong> ok
<imbrandon> whast the dissid current version
<minghua> for NMU version numbers there is a policy, of course
<jdong> imbrandon: 1:2.0.0+beta4-4
<plugwash> jdong for a custom package i would use 1:2.0.0+beta5-0yourname1
<minghua> actually, since I am talking about NMU now
<jdong> would ~0yourname1 work too?
<minghua> I believe the correct version number for a new upstream NMU is 1:2.0.0+beta5-0.1
<plugwash> jdong probablly but there is no real need to use ~ here since official debian packages generally start at -1
<jdong> ok
<plugwash> and its highly unlikely that gaim will get a new upstream version uploaded by anyone other than its co-maintainer
<plugwash> (its maintainer seems to have dissapeared)
<jdong> ok
* jdong drops some beta4 packages and attempts a test build
<jdong> s/packages/patches
<jdong> btw, anyone know why pbuilder in edgy is so much slower than dapper?
<jdong> in satisfy-depends?
<giskard> plugwash, who is the real maintainer?
<jdong> it quite literally is 10x slower
<plugwash> giskard well according to p.q.d.o the maintainer is robert mcqueen and co-mainter is ari pollak
<plugwash> but ari seems to be doing virtually all the maintaining (roberts last changelog entry is from last april)
<giskard> plugwash, i guess robot101 is busy with other things, and ari is doing a great work on gaim.
<giskard> plugwash, indeed.
* plugwash strongly suspects ari will upload beta5 soon after etch release
<jdong> plugwash: heh, well, forumers are starting to whip out their checkinstall already, so I thought I'd offer them the lesser of two evils
<jdong> and plus, I'd like shiny new gaim too, and prevu needs a few more test runs on .dsc files usecase
<jdong> rm: cannot remove `debian/gaim-data/usr/share/sounds/gaim/Makefile.mingw': No such file or directory
<jdong> baw, I'm gonna murder someone
<plugwash> jdong why?
<jdong> plugwash: wasted 10 minutes building? :D
<plugwash> yeah, that can be a bitch with stuff like gaim
<jdong> well, at least it isn't openoffice, right? :D
* jdong fires off a 2nd build
<jdong> why do I feel like sneaking in a -j3 to speed things up a bit?
<plugwash> what is -j3 ?
<jdong> make -j3
* jdong running a dual-core
<plugwash> does -j3 have any downsides?
<plugwash> and if not why isn't it the default
<jdong> plugwash: well, it tries to launch 3 jobs at the same time, dependencies allowing
<mr_pouit> jdong: is it made automagically, or has it to be forced in pbuilderrc ?
<jdong> so it's less efficient and more resource-intensive for no good reason on single-cores
<jdong> mr_pouit: I haven't figured that part out, yet... I force it
<mr_pouit> ok
<jdong> plugwash: also, with poorly written makefiles, it can cause build failures
<mr_pouit> jdong: last question ^^: how do you force it inside pbuilder ?
<palski> Yagisan: thanks, it was reproducible on my edgy too
<MrKeuner> hi, I installed edgy on 26th of October, since then I got only 2 security updates. No other updates. is that normal?
<nixternal> right now MrKeuner it is
<nixternal> anywho, just realised this is #ubuntu-motu, tech support is in #ubuntu :)
<MrKeuner> nixternal: why is it normal for now?
<Simon80> lol
<nixternal> this conversation is considered OT in this chan, I will chat with ya in #ubuntu
<plugwash> does ubuntu have any plans to use/reasons for not using diff based apt?
<Simon80> anybody on msn?
<Simon80> maybe I'll send this to #ubuntu or something
<Simon80> ...well, I've already started talking.. so I'll finish:  try to send http://azureus.sourceforge.net/download.php in an IM to someone
<plugwash> lemme guess you get a failed send?
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> I've figured out that it's the download.php that is being blocked
<plugwash> interesting, i noticed messages getting blocked when i tried to post links to stuff on screwfix recently
<Simon80> yeah
* plugwash takes a look at a screwfix url
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<Adri2000> "An SDL game" < is that correct english? I think "An" should be "A"
<minghua> why?  if SDL is pronounced "es-dee-el", then "an" is correct
<plugwash> conventions seem to vary a little on that one, i always thought you wen't with how it was written when writing and how it was pronounced when speaking
<Adri2000> I thought the a/an was about spelling and not pronunciation
<minghua> I would be surprised if the a/an use is about spelling instead of pronunciation
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> me too
<Adri2000> ok ok :p
<minghua> at least wikipedia confirms my belief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%2C_an
<minghua> :-)
<giskard> plugwash, ari packages/unstable * r7890 gaim/debian/changelog: Release gaim 1:2.0.0+beta5-1
<giskard> plugwash, i guess gaimbeta5 will hit unstable tomorrow
<bhale> does anyone want to help the guy in #u-d
<bhale> because i dont
<bhale> jump in any time
<plugwash> giskard that is a surprising turn of events, given that the release team said that the time for transitions before etch release is history
<plugwash> giskard btw where did you get that info from?
<giskard> plugwash, form gnome-debian
<plugwash> giskard url?
<giskard> #gnome-debian on gimpnet
<plugwash> giskard hmm do bots post notifications in there or something?
<bhale> hi giskard
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-12
<Adri2000> morning Fujitsu :)
<Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000. I'll look at the package in a minute, currently looking through the night's science bugs.
<Adri2000> ok
<plugwash> anyone got any idea when stuff will start moving from sid into feisty?
<Fujitsu> plugwash: It's been happening since the 9th or so.
<Fujitsu> The buildds have caught up, except for sparc and ia64.
<minghua> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
* Fujitsu notes the list of science SRU-possibilities is getting infuriatingly large.
<minghua> Fujitsu: If I want something in the science debian-vs-ubuntu list changes, should I ask you or LaserJock?
<Fujitsu> Either, I guess... What do you want done?
<minghua> Oh.  Just to add Debian's non-free there.  Or remove ubuntu's multiverse.  Now some of the "in Ubuntu but not in Debian" entries are just bogus, the eagle package, for example.
<Fujitsu> I've added non-free, we'll see what that does to the package lists...
<minghua> Fujitsu: I just realized that LaserJock's list has eagle there, while yours doesn't
<minghua> not sure if LaserJock already had non-free or something
<Fujitsu> Mine had eagle in that not-in-Sid list until 30 seconds ago.
<minghua> yes, and LaserJock's has eagle in outdated-in-ubuntu
<Fujitsu> As does mine now :)
<Fujitsu> So it was my problem :(
<minghua> all good :-)
<minghua> so one change drops the length of not-in-ubuntu list from 24 to 9, not bad, huh? :-P
<Fujitsu> 79 packages with local changes... Although I've requested a sync for one or two.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<minghua> not-in-sid* BTW
<Fujitsu> chemicalmime should be removed, it's been replaced in Debian.
<minghua> is auto-sync supposed to be turned on in the near future?
<Fujitsu> It's already on.
<Fujitsu> Has been for 3 days.
<Fujitsu> Hence the small list of outdated packaegs.
<minghua> oh I see
<minghua> when you said sync you meant "discard ubuntu change and sync"
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
<Fujitsu> minghua: There are three packages on that list which seem to have vanished from Debian without a trace... They're not mentioned in the removal logs, their p.q.d.o pages don't exist...
<minghua> Fujitsu: what are those?
<minghua> there are traces, just hard to find :-)
<Fujitsu> chemicalmime, koctave, mascyma
<minghua> Hmm, AFAICS none of the three has been removed from Debian
<minghua> (according to http://ftp-master.debian.or/kg/removals.txt)
<Fujitsu> But none of them exist either.
<minghua> so renaming is the more likely cause
<Fujitsu> (that's the list I looked at for removals)
<Fujitsu> How do we track that?
<minghua> compared with disappearing without a trace, I mean
<minghua> not that I know of, unfortunately
<Fujitsu> Grrreat.
<Fujitsu> Presumably they will be in the same section, however.
<Fujitsu> So I'll create lists of packages in Sid in the appropriate sections.
<Fujitsu> And hopefully locate new/renamed packages.
<minghua> heh
<minghua> Fujitsu: those three are source package names, right?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Righht.
<Fujitsu> *Right
<minghua> Fujitsu: Hmm.  My previous analysis is wrong.  Renamed source packages shows up in the removal log
<Fujitsu> OK, so they /have/ completely vanished.
<minghua> I am not going to admit that unless you present evidence that they existed before ;-)
<Fujitsu> They have Debian revision numbers...
<minghua> do they have distribution=unstable in debian/changelog, too?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<minghua> (but if the uploader screwed up version number, he is likely to screw up the distribution as well)
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly...
<minghua> so, uhm, I am not taking that as a hard evidence
<Fujitsu> snapshot.debian.net says that none of them have ever existed... So somebody screwed up the version number and distribution.
<Fujitsu> But, a lot of times for each of them.
<minghua> go hunt the uploader(s) :-P
<Fujitsu> I can't easily tell who signed the uploads, though, so I'm not sure who to shoot...
<Fujitsu> Ah! whatever-changes will tell em.
<Fujitsu> *me
<minghua> another possibility is we imported from some third-party repo with inappropriate versioning scheme
<Fujitsu> That's probable.
<minghua> or, the package kept old unofficial changelog entries
<Fujitsu> For chemicalmime:
<Fujitsu> Creator: Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync
<Fujitsu> Doesn't that imply it was autosynced from Debian?
<minghua> it's hard for me to believe we have uploaders who screwed up version number and distribution multiple times
<minghua> I don't think so
<minghua> what does the -changes mail say about the packages we sync from debian-multimedia?
<Fujitsu> That's a good question... I'll check.
<Fujitsu> For myththemes (from debian-multimedia):
<Fujitsu> Creator: William Grant
<Hobbsee> hah - blame Fujitsu!
<Hobbsee> :P
<minghua> maybe the pre-soyuz era generate different -changes mails?
<Fujitsu> The only way they will be attributed to Ubuntu Archive AutoSync is if it actually requests it automatically, or if the archive admin attributes it to it... I don't find either possibility likely in these cases...
<Fujitsu> Argh.
<Fujitsu> You know why it's listed as being autosynced?
<Fujitsu> It was autosynced from pre-Soyuz.
* Fujitsu bashes head on desk.
<bhale> is MoM running?
<Fujitsu> bhale: It never stopped.
<bhale> Fujitsu: is The Sync running?
<Fujitsu> minghua: All the initial versions of packages in LP are attributed to the autosyncer. How deranged.
<Fujitsu> bhale: Yep, since the 9th.
<bhale> Fujitsu: rock
<bhale> -changes-auto has nothing
<Fujitsu> ia64 and sparc are yet to catch up, however.
<Fujitsu> Chances are they're in the moderation queue.
<Fujitsu> (like stuff to -changes was for several days)
<minghua> Fujitsu: never trust the attribution of LP, I thought you already knew that :-P
* Fujitsu searches out the original upload email.
<Fujitsu> bhale: ubuntu-changes-auto has had no posts since May... I don't think it's actually used any more.
<minghua> or is it just not archived?
<Fujitsu> That's a possibility.
<crimsun> I've noticed that feisty-changes doesn't seem to pick up any of my uploads, but that's extremely minor.
<minghua> Looking at Fujitsu's struggle makes me appreciate archaeologist's work more :-P
<Fujitsu> crimsun: They seem to have really stuffed up the moderation stuff this time around.
<Fujitsu> None of those three packages are mentioned in warty-, hoary-, or breezy-changes.
<Fujitsu> That's impossible, of course.
* minghua wonders how crimsun made a mail with only CC: header but no To: header (the one to ubuntu-motu replying mine)
<minghua> Fujitsu: must be from pre-warty era! :-P
<crimsun> minghua: I deleted the To: header in -thunderbird
<crimsun> I don't know whose fault that is, tbh. I probably should have fiddled with the drop-down
<minghua> and your mail client is okay with that?
<crimsun> ctrl+backspace + backspace, send
<minghua> I think mutt won't let me do that
<crimsun> apparently -thunderbird was happy to do so
<crimsun> right, I never was able to do that with mutt
<Fujitsu> This is CRAZY.
<minghua> Fujitsu: have you checked the signature of the .dsc file?
<Fujitsu> minghua: It's signed by somebody whe isn't a member of ubuntu{,-core}-dev. It's the signature on the .changes which is important, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> I've never heard of this person before...
<minghua> Fujitsu: okay.
<minghua> I don't really know how dak/soyuz works
<Fujitsu> And the only package mentioned in any -changes is chemicalmime, and that's in ubuntu-changes-auto...
<Fujitsu> The other packages have appeared from somewhere without any emails being generated.
<minghua> but at least in debian all .dsc files should have the sponsor's signature
<minghua> because they are supposed to build binary packages themselves
<Fujitsu> Well, apparently not in Ubuntu.
<minghua> and to be honest, I consider keeping source packages without an uploader's signature in archive a problem that should be fixed
<Fujitsu> What I really don't get is that none of the original uploads appear to have generated emails...
<minghua> what about asking on ubuntu-motu/ubuntu-devel?
<minghua> or maybe asking in #ubuntu-devel first
<minghua> you really need someone who knows how things used to work in the old days
<Fujitsu> Yeah...
<Fujitsu> I suppose it's possible that syncs from an external repository didn't generate emails in the pre-Soyuz days.
<Burgundavia> any portugese speakers about?
<nictuku> Burgundavia, yes
<nictuku> Burgundavia, how can I help?
<Burgundavia> nictuku: go something I think is spam
<Burgundavia> "Prezado Colega, graas a um membro do grupo que me emprestou seu PC de reserva,"
<nictuku> hmm if it's a spam, it's not obvious
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: don't forget homebank :)
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: I haven't forgotten it. There is still that license. issue to be sorted out.
<Fujitsu> s/license\./license/
<nictuku> Dear Colleage, thanks to a member of the group who lended me his backup PC, "
<Burgundavia> interesting
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ok, but I already mailed upstream 10 days ago to say that I was going to package homebank for ubuntu, and no response yet :/
<Fujitsu> Well, you'll just have to wait.
<Adri2000> yep, waiting
<minghua> motu group on LP is such a strange place...  Fujitsu is one of the only three non-administrator member in this 40-people team
<Burgundavia> Adri2000: interesting, given his plea for packagers on the main site
<Fujitsu> minghua: People stopped being added a while back, but I got added, but not adminned... It's a strange group.
<minghua> Fujitsu: yes I heard that's a kind-of-non-functional group, but still a bit hilarious to see a 37-3 admin/non-admin ratio
<minghua> reminds me some jokes about Chinese bureaucracy
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
* imbrandon pokes the room
<imbrandon> wakeup peeps
<joejaxx> hello
<LaserJock> imbrandon!
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> joejaxx!
<joejaxx> hello :D
<imbrandon> just got home ( well kinda , waiting at the airport for my ride )
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx
<imbrandon> joejaxx: if you dont mind i would like to see that script when/if you get it working oin the next days
<StevenK> imbrandon: How was UDS?
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> StevenK: it rocked, we got a ton done, and still had a ton to do too
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ok
<imbrandon> plus i got pictures of jono dancing with a beer bottle for randsom :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: ^^
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<StevenK> Hah
* imbrandon wonders where his ride is, should be here about now
<StevenK> imbrandon: Find them on IRC and yell? :-P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i called them 30 minutes ago and they said "on their way"
<imbrandon> soooo shouldent be much longer, i'll just be glad to be HOME and not on my laptop all week, even though google rocked, i realy need to blog tonight about it
<imbrandon> i'll do that once i get home from the airport
<imbrandon> prepare for UberUbuCon too ( shhh i dident say anything /yet/ )
<imbrandon> StevenK: ^^
<StevenK> Heh
<LaserJock> UberUbuCon?
<LaserJock> I thought Ubucon was uber enough :/
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: did they have ubuntu t-shirts at the end of UDS?
<imbrandon> what /was/ UbuCon but bigger, canonical reprentation , diffrent location , lots of new stuff, it will be solidified soonish
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no
<imbrandon> LaserJock: just dinner where everyone got thrashed
<LaserJock> mdz and Jane Silber hand delivered my ubuntu t-shirt at Ubucon so :p
<imbrandon> i got some kubuntu t-shirts
<imbrandon> but not ubuntu ones
<imbrandon> and some edgy pressed cd's
<LaserJock> who want's kubuntu t-shirts ;-)
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> I had hoped for some CDs
<LaserJock> but didn't get around to asking Claire
<imbrandon> i /think/ melissa grabbed what was left of the ubuntu edgy ones and i dunno about the kubuntu ones
<imbrandon> you might ask her to send you a few, i only grabbed one of each flavor
<LaserJock> yeah, I grabbed one of each in Paris
<LaserJock> and then left then at my wife's cousins place
<StevenK> Ahh, excellent. I can hit up Melissa for i386 and amd64 Edgy CDs.
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> the good news is he's now running Ubuntu on his laptop
<LaserJock> so I guess it was worth it
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea from what i seen she had the remaning edubuntu and ubuntu ones
* minghua burned both ubuntu and kubuntu desktop CDs, and very disappointed to find out ubiquity doesn't deal with LVM at all
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> that burned me too
* Amaranth yawns
<LaserJock> with dapper
<Amaranth> damn timezones :P
<LaserJock> oh whatever
<imbrandon> minghua: yea thats only for the alternate ( and i beleave it says so on the download page )
* minghua go reads the download page
<LaserJock> it does
<minghua> (but it really should be in release notes)
<imbrandon> minghua: why , you download something without reading what version best suits you ? heh
<LaserJock> well, with all the buzz around having a graphical installer
<imbrandon> LaserJock: we should be getting arm buildd's too soonish , that was talked about after you left
<LaserJock> it's sort of natural to think it'd work
<imbrandon> for the ipod/nokia770 and other things
<LaserJock> I see
<imbrandon> and i think most of the ppa-restricted and system76 stuff all got worked out too
<LaserJock> I think somebody should send me a nokia770 to test on :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: did you talk to the System76 guys?
* joejaxx is living on the edgy running feisty
<imbrandon> there was like 50 at the confrence ( and the nokia developers too , they are the ones buying the arm buildd's )
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea , for like 2 days in a row
<joejaxx> edge*
<LaserJock> imbrandon: excellent, what was the result of that?
<minghua> hmm, anybody can point it to me where the LVM issue is written?  doesn't seem to be on http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download
<minghua> (sorry for asking a support question :-P)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: they are gonna sponsor a few systems too, they worked out with elmo about getting them to the DC
<LaserJock> minghua: it's on the actual download pages
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what type?
<imbrandon> minghua: its not an "issue" its simply that its not supported on the desktop cd, and its on the download cd
<imbrandon> err download page, not that
<minghua> LaserJock: the url I posted have link to isos
<imbrandon> page you pointed too
<LaserJock> oh freaky, that's changed
<lifeless> heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya lifeless
<imbrandon> lifeless: let me get home ( about 45 minutes ) and i'll up you
<lifeless> imbrandon: no rush dude.
<lifeless> (thanks though!)
<minghua> imbrandon: I just can't see it
<imbrandon> lifeless: hehe yea, just wanted to let you know i hadent forgot :)
<LaserJock> the dapper pages have them
<minghua> LaserJock: now we are talking...
<LaserJock> the edgy links need to say it
<LaserJock>  it just says: "alternative installation methods for OEM computers and computers with less than 192MB RAM"
<LaserJock> for the edgy links
<imbrandon> look at the download page for edgy http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ , plainly listed in the alternate cd section
<LaserJock> but www.ubuntu.com is wrong, or at least incomplete
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: file a bug
<imbrandon> maybe imcomplete
<Burgundavia> mdke or myself will fix it, eventually
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah, was just thinking about that
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<imbrandon> ok guys, see ya in a bit, my ride is here
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> catch yall in a few
<Burgundavia> http://thismight.be/offensive/2006/11/02/index.php?id=50
<Burgundavia> $RANDOM_LINK
<lifeless> worksafe ?
<minghua> lifeless: yes
<Burgundavia> lifeless: yes, but some of the other ones may not be
<minghua> (if everybody gets the same link)
<Burgundavia> yes they do
<Burgundavia> tmbo does have NSFW pictures, so be warned
<minghua> and I never really understood that comic
<minghua> it's quoted everywhere, but nobody bothered to explain it :-(
<joejaxx> wow the synaptic pad in feisty just failed
<joejaxx> keyboard shortcuts ftw
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> looks like it is edgy reinstall time
<joejaxx> bbl
<LaserJock> minghua: bug filed
<minghua> LaserJock: subscribe me please? :-)
<LaserJock> bug #71444
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71444 in ubuntu-website "download page needs more info for Edgy alternate cds" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71444
<minghua> thanks
* minghua go subscribe himself
<Burgundavia> minghua: are there any other reasons?
<minghua> Burgundavia: according to http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ there are also "creating pre-configured OEM systems" and "setting up automated deployments", but I am not sure you want to put them there
<Burgundavia> I think I do
<minghua> but IMO two sets of download instructions are just very confusing
<Burgundavia> yes
<minghua> and http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download really overwhelmed me with it's mile-long list of mirrors
<Burgundavia> I can edit the website, but cjwatson needs to edit the releases.u.c stuff
<Burgundavia> and we need an auto mirror chooser
<Burgundavia> we need a single "download" palce
<Burgundavia> basically our downloads pages are confusing messes
<Burgundavia> http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version <-- not much better
<Burgundavia> ftp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ <-- ouch
<Burgundavia> ok, MEPIS' sucks to
<Burgundavia> too, rather
<minghua> Fedora has a rather nice page for first-time visitors IMO: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary
<Burgundavia> ubuntu.com/desktop
<Burgundavia> that FC6 page isn't great
<Burgundavia> download ISOs
<Burgundavia> none of the top 10 DW distros have great downoad pages
<Burgundavia> ours is probably the clearest
<Laser_away> well, but on the other hand most don't have Desktop/Alternate distinctions do they?
<Burgundavia> usually they get lost in techno babble land, with terms like ISO and torrent
<minghua> does capitalized "away" mean "really away" these days? :-)
<LaserAway> yeah
<LaserAway> doh
<Burgundavia> ok, thoughts
<Burgundavia> the front page of Ubuntu.com has those desktop and server sections
<Burgundavia> they currently have links that say "Information' and "Download"
<Burgundavia> what about changing the information to "Discover"
<minghua> Burgundavia: about the "ISO" and "torrent" usage -- I am not sure fedora people are targeting completely new linux users, so that may be fine
<minghua> I personally think that's fine
<Burgundavia> true
<Burgundavia> but we are
<minghua> on the other hand, I find "This type of CD is what most people will want to use" (desktop) very misleading to me
<minghua> I am quite surprised to see using LVM are excluded from "most people" now
<minghua> especially coming from Debian background
<Burgundavia> LVM is not a normal setup
<minghua> (which has been supporting LVM for years)
<minghua> true, I am only saying "to me", doesn't mean it's not correct for the target audience
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> but in the context of that notice, LVM is fringe
<LaserJock> I think the bigger issue is upgrades
<LaserJock> you can only use the Alternate disc for upgrades
<lifeless> the automatic removal of lvm is disconcerting :)
<minghua> I don't know others, but I am advocating LVM to every linux users I know in real life
<lifeless> minghua: evms
<lifeless> minghua: easier to use than lvm, though it needs love too. And we're heading for some slick evms support in fisty
<minghua> lifeless: does that mean the default feisty kernel will support evms?
<lifeless> minghua: the default edgy kernel supports evms
<lifeless> minghua: as does dapper
<minghua> anyway I think I'll stick to lvm though :-)
<minghua> lifeless: oh sorry.  I am on debian now
<lifeless> minghua: well, thats your problem :)
<lifeless> you can upgrade easily though.
<lifeless> evms in debian should work fine though
<minghua> lifeless: oh really?  what does the description of your evms package on edgy say?  ;-)
<minghua> I think that's your problem now, isn't it? :-P
<lifeless> minghua: whatever drugs you are on, I want some
<lifeless> apt-get install evms-ncurses; evmsn
<minghua> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evms/2.5.5-18
<minghua> "In order to make full use of it, you must use a kernel which includes the EVMS patch, available in the linux-patch-evms package."
<minghua> lifeless: when people hear about a software they never heard of, they apt-get show it first, not apt-get install it
<minghua> and I would have been turned down by that description completely
<minghua> whether the kernel really support it or not is probably irrelevant
<minghua> Or am I missing anything here?
<joejaxx> i wonder why me downloading all of main never works :(
<lifeless> minghua: the kernel has the patch in it
<lifeless> well, I'm having network issues
<lifeless> so will disappear soon.
<lifeless> anyhow, the *ubuntu* kernel has evmsn in it, and I'm pretty sure the debian one does too.
<lifeless> and has had for ages. File a bug on evms about the description if you like
<minghua> lifeless: I said whether the kernel really support it is irrelevant
<joejaxx> anyone know any other repository sync tools other than debmirror?
<minghua> lifeless: and for now I can't care less about evms, so I won't bother filing a bug
<lifeless> minghua: not really, I think you should assume that if something is packaged, everything it needs is already present and ready to go
<lifeless> I think the reason tha tthe text is there in the package details is so that folk running their own kernel dont get into trouble
<minghua> lifeless: I tend to believe in package description a lot
<lifeless> joejaxx: rsync ?
<joejaxx> lifeless: i only want main and restricted
<joejaxx> i am going to have them on my laptop
<StevenK> joejaxx: debmirror?
<lifeless> joejaxx: oh, hmm, I dont know
<joejaxx> StevenK: i use debmirror now
<joejaxx> but it fails
<minghua> lifeless: to be fair linux-patch-evm package says most recent kernel shouldn't need the patch, but I still think it's wrong for evms to mention that if the default shipped kernel doesn't need a patch
<joejaxx> and i have to keep running it over and over
<StevenK> joejaxx: The mirror you're pulling from is not up to snuff?
<joejaxx> i am pulling from archive.ubuntu.com
<StevenK> Odd.
<lifeless> minghua: I disagree, its useful to make sure folk can run their own custom kernel safely
<LaserJock> yeah, except I would have done the same thing "Ugg, I need a custom kernel, no thanks"
<minghua> lifeless: no problem.  I am not an evms user, so my opinion is not important
<lifeless> minghua: well, its not about evms per se, its about what information the package description should include.
<lifeless> I think the evms package should note that the patch is required *if* a custom kerenel is being used.
<minghua> lifeless: what I meant is we can agree to disagree.  If I maintain a package that needs kernel support, I won't mention it in the package description if the default kernel has the support
<minghua> lifeless: I'll put the warning about custom kernel in README.Debian instead
<lifeless> minghua: do you maintain any such packages today ?
<minghua> lifeless: or maybe even do something special in the maintainer script to detect custom kernel / necessary kernel support
<minghua> lifeless: no.  I've said my opinion is not important
<lifeless> minghua: I'm not treating it as important or not. I'm trying to ensure that if/when you introduce such a package you supply what our users probably need.
<minghua> lifeless: by "our users" you mean "ubuntu users"?
<lifeless> no
<minghua> then I disagree.  I expect debian users to read /usr/share/doc/<package>/README.Debian
<lifeless> you have said you use debian, and I get the impression you are not a motu, rather you do debian development. So I'm meaning 'any user of the debian family of distributions'
<minghua> and I also said, the best way is probably auto-detect the necessary kernel feature
<minghua> lifeless: I am a MOTU.  I am also maintaining packages in Debian.
<lifeless> putting it in th emaintainer script is not a good idea because the kernel can be upgraded/switched with no notification to your package.
<lifeless> you could try to get some sort of run-parts .d directory for installation of kernel patches to allow you to check when  a kernel is installed but that will still fail to find locally built and not packaged kernels
<minghua> lifeless: good point.  maybe a wrapper script for the binary then
<minghua> I mean do run-time checking (if that is possible at all)
<lifeless> i dont expect users of my packages to read README.Debian, even though I strive to make it useful.
<minghua> lifeless: I do, for Debian users.  that's why I said we can agree to disagree
<lifeless> minghua: that is only useful and sane if your package will not cause a boot failure when the kernel patch is missing
<lifeless> minghua: you expect it, but, I'll take any social bet you like that < 10% of debian users *who are not contributors* even know that that file exists.
<Simon80> indeed, I think if a message is that helpful, better to make it salient than to let users learn the hard way that they needed something
<minghua> lifeless: and my opinion is that they deserve the boot failure.  it's not a very good attitude, I know.  but I am just annoyed by too many clueless users
<Simon80> ok, see, if you're sociopathic like that, you shouldn't be making these decisions
<Simon80> cause you're packaging for users, not for yourself
<lifeless> minghua: its a pretty poor attitude ... "Our priorities are our users and free software
<lifeless> "
<minghua> the package I maintain has a 4.3K gzipped README.Debian by the way
<lifeless> now thats my opinion :)
<Simon80> thing is, there's no disadvantage to including a quick warning about something in the description
<Simon80> even if it includes a recommendation to read README.debian
<lifeless> minghua: I'm glad you write documentation; I think thats very important.
<minghua> I still think if the default kernel supports the package well, it's not necessary to put the warning in the package description
<minghua> but of course I see the point of the other side
<Simon80> the other thing to do would be to ensure that there's a central place to read about maintaining a custom kernel in Ubuntu, and that it mentions these things to watch out for
<minghua> and to be honest and blunt, if someone jump out and say: "your attitude is wrong, I'll maintain this package and be nicer to users", I think I'll be happy to give up the maintainership as long as he/she is technically competent
<Simon80> well, you'll note that I didn't say I'd maintain it for you... I was talking about the decision
<minghua> so lifeless, it's really not much point trying to persuade me, and I doubt you can :-)
<Simon80> as in, some sort of have my cake and eat it too scenario where I give you my 2 cents but don't do any work ;)
<minghua> Simon80: I am not maintaining any kernel-related package now, and not likely in near future, so for that part you can stop worrying :-)
<Simon80> haha
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evms/+bug/71454
<Simon80> I think the bottom line is that if users are going to benefit from the message being there, without it harming anyone else, it should be there
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71454 in evms "package description is intimidating" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<lifeless> gnight
<minghua> for the packages I do maintain, I will treat such opinion more seriously if it comes with a patch to my package description
<Simon80> night
<minghua> lifeless: night
<Simon80> I agree.. but at the same time it takes you less effort to produce a patch than them, they have to apt-get source the package... I suppose that's not huge, but I know I file less bugs because of the effort involved in filing
<Simon80> and that's not to say I'm lazy, I've gone the other way and bistected a kernel issue
<Simon80> turns out someone had figured out which commit it was already :(
<Simon80> but I was afraid, it was in vanilla 2.6.18 and I didn't want the next release of ubuntu to make my computer unusable
<Simon80> or release after next..
<Simon80> to be clear, it was in both 18 and 17
<Simon80> hence my saying the next release
<minghua> Simon80: no, a new description is perfectly qualified as a patch
<Simon80> fair enough
<Simon80> I could do that
<minghua> Simon80: it's basically "if I do the work I gets to make the decision" attitude, not a very nice one, but IMO a fair one
<Simon80> err, you're condraticting yourself
<Simon80> contradicting* lol
<minghua> Simon80: how?
<Simon80> I mean, what I take that to mean is, it's not a very nice attitude, but I can get away with it by claiming it's fair
<minghua> Simon80: by fair I mean "if the other people have the same attitude, I am okay with that"
<Simon80> you can go ahead and assert that you should make the decision if you maintain the package, but only if you think that's a "nice" attitude
<Simon80> ah
<minghua> Simon80: I still don't understand your last sentence
<minghua> English is not my native language, so bear with me :-)
<Simon80> oh, yeah, that is kind of unclear... I mean that if you don't think it's a nice attitude, don't adopt it
<minghua> okay, s/nice/kind/, is that better?
<Simon80> maybe
<minghua> I really wanted to mean "not the best attitude one can have"
<minghua> and I did use "very" :-)
<Simon80> yeah, that's what I thought: if you don't think it's the best attitude, shouldn't you try to adopt a better one?
<minghua> hmm, this is a bit off-topic, but since nobody else is talking here -- :-P
<LaserJock> hehe
<minghua> the problem is, I have this attitude so that I feel more comfortable
<minghua> if I try to have the best attitude to every user, I put much more work and stress onto myself
<minghua> and since I do package maintaining work in my free time, I want to do it in a way I feel comfortable
<minghua> I am not a "sweet person" in real life either (hope that's the correct expression)
* LaserJock hugs minghua 
<Simon80> I understand what you mean
<minghua> now I'll shut up as Hobbsee is here :-P
<Simon80> lol @ LaserJock
<Simon80> haha
<Simon80> yeah, seriously, perfect timing to miss the topic of conversation
<Hobbsee> minghua: hah!   what was said?
<Hobbsee> do tell :)
* minghua hugs LaserJock back
<Simon80> pastebin it, lol
* Hobbsee wishes she had hobbsee|remote in here
<LaserJock> minghua: I know where you are coming from a little bit
<Hobbsee> mind you, fabbione's bot will update soon - so you may as well pastebin it
<minghua> Hobbsee: nothing, I was just kidding when mentioning you.  it's about my attitude to users of my package
<LaserJock> you kinda gotta get a little jaded
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> he was just saying that if he maintains a package he reserves the right to make a decision about it even if users disagree... correct me if I'm wrong
<minghua> get jaded?  sorry I don't understand that
<Hobbsee> awww :(
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<minghua> Simon80: if _some_ users disagree, but yeah basically that's correct
<crimsun> heh, one of the things I struggle with is not becoming jaded. This distro is user-driven, so I make a much more concerted effort to make sure the users come first.
<Simon80> minghua: jaded would be pretty much what you said, equivalent to getting fed up
<Simon80> with dealing with user concerns and what not
<Simon80> I mean, I'm not saying that you don't care about users, lol
<Simon80> I have foot in mouth disease
<minghua> that must be a slang?  as dictionary.cambridge.org doesn't list jade as a verb
<Simon80> no, it's not a verb
<Simon80> it's an adjective - jaded
<Simon80> like fed up
<Simon80> nobody feeds you up or anything, lol
<minghua> hmm so jaded has nothing to do with jade...
<Hobbsee> correct
* minghua learns a new word :-)
<crimsun> it's a bit more long-term and hypercritical than simply being exasperated
<Hobbsee> minghua: apart from the fact that you turn the colour of jade, when you're jaded :P
<Hobbsee> minghua: where are you from?
<minghua> Hobbsee: China
<Hobbsee> minghua: oh yeah, right :)
<Hobbsee> minghua: guess you would learn new words quite often thru here then - weird ones
<Hobbsee> and some cursings :P
* Hobbsee notes that she taught a whole lot of the dev team what "FFS" means
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I had to stop and think about that for a sec though
<Hobbsee> they had no idea what it meant.  at which point i went.  uh...okay...damn
<Simon80> fast fourier screwup
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> yes. exactly.
<Simon80> ......though chances are, that's the problem, there's so many TLAs that people try to guess something technical
<minghua> Hobbsee: oh by the way, what does turning the color of green mean?  angry?
<Hobbsee> minghua: um, usually jealous
<Hobbsee> minghua: red is angry
<minghua> as you see, Chinese use different colors of face when describe emotions
<Hobbsee> like how fire looks angry, and that's red :P
<Hobbsee> yeah, i vaguely remembered that they did
<minghua> Hobbsee: and turning color of jade would be same as green, no?
<Hobbsee> i was joking
<Hobbsee> but presumably
<minghua> good to know :-)
<Hobbsee> jade is a blue-green colour
<minghua> yeah, that part I know, we have plenty of jade stones in China :-)
<Hobbsee> ahh :)
<minghua> in Chinese angry is turning white I think
<minghua> while jealousy is eyes turning green, not face
<Hobbsee> minghua: here, turning white would be fearful/scared, i expect.
<minghua> and face turning green means emaciated
<Simon80> sick
<minghua> yeah, scared is turning white too
<minghua> let me do a little bit googling
<Simon80> emaciated is "To make or become extremely thin, especially as a result of starvation."
<Simon80> from the american heritage dictionary
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Simon80> via thefreedictionary
<minghua> I am really not sure about my Chinese any more after staying in US for five years...
<Simon80> ah, you're not actually IN china right now
<minghua> Simon80: true, I know what emaciated mean.  I should have said "face being green means emaciated"
<Simon80> would you even be able to connect to this channel in there? I mean, that's too much free speech I would reckon
<minghua> oh, we have plenty of free speech on IRC ;-)
<Simon80> they don't mind that?
<minghua> you just don't have free speech on national newspapers
<Simon80> and I mean mind in both senses of the word, hehe
<Simon80> ah
<minghua> Simon80: and yes, we can connect abroad IRC servers just fine, there is even a #debian-zh channel here (although not everyone there are from China, it's really Debian _Chinese_, the language)
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> like, dealing with the chinese version of debian, not the chinese users
<minghua> heh
<Hobbsee> minghua: does that mean that you're free to use ubuntu/debian/whatever, no matter what the papers say?  or is it more censored than taht?
<minghua> Hobbsee: what does the papers say?  you do realize that western news agencies have their propaganda too, don't you?
<Simon80> yeah, for sure
<Simon80> specially in the US
<minghua> as for the computer operating system, yes, Chinese users are absolutely free to use whatever OS he/she likes
<Hobbsee> minghua: no idea.  and quite likely
<Hobbsee> minghua: no idea how bad it is in australia
<Simon80> not that I'm saying it doesn't happen outside it, I just mean that if you're living there, chances are your perspective is formed mostly on the crazy politics that occur in the states
<minghua> (sometimes even more free than western users, as China is infamous for its pirating versions of Windows :-P)
<Hobbsee> haha ;D
<Simon80> yeah, that's bad though, you still suffer from vendor lockin if you pirate it
<Simon80> so really, those people are shooting themselves in the foot
<Simon80> one of the saddest things to observe is government officials of some african countries vehemently shilling for microsoft
<Simon80> like, very strongly taking their side
<minghua> from what I see and hear, the only freedom Chinese citizens really need but don't have are two:
<minghua> 1. to express the opinions, especially the one against what the government says, on public media
<Burgundavia> can we take this very political topic elsewhere?
<Burgundavia> like -offtopic?
<minghua> 2. the right to sue/object the established law and government
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: then again, i'ts hardly creating flames - if it's in -offtopic, it will
<minghua> sure
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i'd be of the opinion that this is more of a "tell us what it's like, having been there yourself"
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: it is also about the poor people having to parse teh logs
<minghua> I am in -offtopic now if anyone wants to continue discussion
<Hobbsee> true
<Simon80> I'm not
<Simon80> :)
<Lutin> Hay
<Burgundavia> ok, the forums scare me
<crimsun> I was just musing that visiting www.videolan.org displays a prominent "Download Now for Ubuntu Linux" that references our universe repo, but then I realised the code probably checks the user agent
<Burgundavia> try hacking your user agent string and see what happens
<crimsun> I confirmed by using lynx :-)
<Burgundavia> yep
<crimsun> that's still pretty cool
<Burgundavia> can we do arch detection with that?
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> ...
<Simon80> I may have spoke too soon
<Simon80> no
<Simon80> maybe
<Simon80> I mean
<Burgundavia> shucks
<Simon80> bottom line is nevermind, I'm clueless, haha
<Burgundavia> we need to figure out a better way to downloading Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> a windows program that bundled an ISO burned would rock
<Burgundavia> burner, rather
<crimsun> it'd be awesome if Nvidia graphics cards included some such in their retail boxes
<Simon80> you'd be able to maybe use mac os to say use ppc
<Simon80> why nvidia cards?
<crimsun> just a random musing from a few of the blogs on planet.uc
<Simon80> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20060601 Firefox/2.0 (Ubuntu-edgy)
<Simon80> arch is there
<crimsun> apparently there was an Nvidia demo or whatnot at the same time as UDS
<Simon80> so yeah, we can do i386 and amd64
<Simon80> and prolly ppc
<Simon80> depending on the level of detail in those strings
<Burgundavia> safari says PPC
<Burgundavia> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/419.3
<Burgundavia> windows just says windows, but that is not an issue
<Burgundavia> cool, that code is entirely js
<Burgundavia> "Haha Mac OS 9 is dead! (if you\\\'re not using Mac OS 9 ... please write us a mail so we can fix this OS detection script)"
<Burgundavia> anybody with a PPC or amd64 machine handy?
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, I have an amd64 box - why ?
<Burgundavia> can you go to ubuntu.ca/test.html
<Burgundavia> what do you see?
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, that I need to enable javascript first ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, Download Now for x86
<Burgundavia> is there a way I can catch that?
<Yagisan> Download for Other Platforms
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> oh, wait
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, you won't be  able to tell if javascript is disabled, so IIRC you make a static page, and have javascript rewite it
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, that way you cater for the noscript users
<Burgundavia> right
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, I'd tell you how, but its been 4 years since I did www work, so I've forgotten how
<Burgundavia> try now
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, Download Now for amd64
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, I'll test in Konq now
<Burgundavia> perfect
<Yagisan> works there too
<Burgundavia> think I am ready for wider testing
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, I see nothing in lynx
<Burgundavia> lynx is not really a target audience
<Burgundavia> likely doesn't do javascript
<Yagisan> consider lynx your javascript disabled user, or blind users
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I wanted to test that bit of the code first
<Burgundavia> now I am writing a production version
<Yagisan> ah, the joys of google
<Burgundavia> oh?'
<Yagisan> looking for books on 'C' and get results for C#
<Yagisan> google code search is certainly useful
<palski> riivinrauta
<palski> damn :)
<Q-FUNK> vr paikka
<palski> Q-FUNK: jep :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<shawarma> I'm about to package a python module, but I'm a bit put off by the new policy, pycentral and python-support...  Is there a good beginner's guide to python packaging?
<lastnode> shawarma, debian python policy?
<shawarma> lastnode: yes
<lastnode> shawarma, read that?
<giskard> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<suger> hello
<giskard> you can find example on this page
<shawarma> lastnode: Yes. Not very helpful, if you ask me. It's kind of like pointing people at Debian Policy to get them started on packaging.
<shawarma> giskard: Now *that* looks useful.
<shawarma> giskard: thank you.
<lastnode> shawarma, what i meant was giskard's link, sorry if it wasn't clear enough
<lastnode> :-)
<shawarma> lastnode: Ah, ok. http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/   <--- that's the actual policy
<lastnode> shawarma, yes, realized that's what shows up when you google for debian python policy. :-) sorry
<Adri2000> phanatic: ping
<phanatic> Adri2000: pong
<Adri2000> phanatic: you saw that there is a new version of sysinfo?
<phanatic> Adri2000: yeah, i was notified by upstream, but didn't have the time for it last week (university), but i'll have look at it today or tomorrow...
<Adri2000> ok :)
<Adri2000> anyone of the SRU team present?
<siretart> Adri2000: depends...
<siretart> ;)
<Adri2000> siretart: I'm trying to fix the bug #56320, if it works what do you think about uploading it to edgy?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56320 in webdeveloper "does not work with Firefox 2.0 beta" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56320
<bhale> i dont think we should be packaging extensions in general
<Adri2000> but now it exists :p and it comes from debian
<siretart> hm. it doesn't have any reverse build deps, nor any reverse deps
<siretart> so it looks safe to me
<siretart> Adri2000: do you think you find 5 tester who can confirm your package works?
<Adri2000> yeah, I will try, but first it must work on my computer :p
<phanatic> Adri2000: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3409
<Adri2000> :)
<phanatic> Adri2000: i had a couple of free minutes ;)
<rvalles> hi hi
<Adri2000> does someone know if the location of the firefox extensions have changed since firefox 2 ?
<_plameni_> cuo sam da vam se mame satiru
<_plameni_> od kurca
<rvalles> Wesnoth needs updated packages (ubuntu has 1.1.8 -> beta, wesnoth is at 1.1.12 -> 1.2 rc2)
<rvalles> more than anything else because they changed network stuff inbetween, network games <1.1.11 is broken against >=1.1.11
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Toadstool> 'morning everybody
<Sp4rKy> hi Toadstool
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
<Toadstool> hey Sp4rKy
<Toadstool> i'm alright, you?
<Sp4rKy> fine
<Q-FUNK> Bug #71521
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71521 in upgrade-system "Could not install libc6_2.4-1ubuntu12_i386.deb" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71521
<Q-FUNK> exactly how do users get that package hint?
<Q-FUNK> I keep on getting bug reports against upgrade-system that are really mean for update-manager.
<minghua> I believe users fill in the binary package hint themselves
<Q-FUNK> in this particular case, the log that the user pasted explicitely stated to file a bug against update-manager.
<minghua> something like "LP ask for the package name, user gives a binary package name, LP find out what source package generates that binary package, file the bug against the source package, and leave the user input as the package hint"
<minghua> Q-FUNK: just reassign :-)
<Q-FUNK> I get a few of these every week.
<Q-FUNK> It's getting tiresome.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I have a possible theory...
<minghua> Q-FUNK: go to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package, choose ubuntu as distribution, click on the "Choose..." link on the package name line
<minghua> Q-FUNK: type upgrade-manager in the pop-up window, nothing
<minghua> Q-FUNK: user gets confused and try again with upgrade, this time there are three choices
<Q-FUNK> update
<Q-FUNK> it's update-manager
<minghua> oh
<Q-FUNK> mine is upgrade-system
<minghua> d'oh
<minghua> many user must think the same way as I do then :-P
<Q-FUNK> all it requires is pasting the name of the package reported by the error log.
<Q-FUNK> The upgrade aborts now. Please report this bug against the 'update-manager' package and include the files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/ in the bugreport.
* Q-FUNK looks for his stainless steel cluebat
* minghua hides under a rock
<minghua> but it's really easy to misread that as upgrad-manager...
<minghua> :-P
<Q-FUNK> I guess
<Q-FUNK> hee, I let copy/paste do these things for me
<Simon80> ah
<pianoboy3333> What's in an orig.tar.gz?
<Simon80> the original sources from upstream
<pianoboy3333> with a debian folder...?
<pianoboy3333> or just the source source
<pygi> pianoboy3333, the original source from upstream means without debian :P
<pianoboy3333> oh
<pianoboy3333> right... I knew that
<Simon80> unless upstream debianised it I guess?
<Simon80> I mean, what if you're upstream and you wanna debianise it, should that go in your cvs and in orig?
<giskard> we should not use upstream debian/
<giskard> most of the time is really buggy
<Simon80> hehe, yeah, but I mean, if _I'm_ in upstream, and I do it right, lol
<pygi> giskard, unless someone really knows how to package it ;)
<giskard> pygi, "most of the time" :)
<pianoboy3333> well
<pianoboy3333> I mean'
<pygi> giskard, :P
<pianoboy3333> if you uupdate a source from apt-get source, what should your orig be... the gunzip you uupdated with?
* Simon80 resists the urge to make lame package jokes
<giskard> pianoboy3333,  dunno, i'd  not put in
<pianoboy3333> not put what in?
<Simon80> ..yeah
<Simon80> I'd say yes?
<pianoboy3333> ok
<Simon80> but I've never used uupdate yet
<Simon80> :)
<pianoboy3333> really?
<Simon80> yeah, I'm new here, haha
<pianoboy3333> wow, you're 1337
<Simon80> no, just fresh
<Simon80> haven't done an upstream update yet
<Simon80> only done one deb package
<pianoboy3333> oh, lol
<Simon80> I've done ebuilds
<Simon80> and rpm, I made an upstream makefile target to generate rpm packages
<pianoboy3333> I've never packaged anything for the universe... I come here for deb help
<Simon80> yeah
<pianoboy3333> I just package things for personal use
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> need links to howtos?
<pianoboy3333> no, no, I'm good with that stuff
<Simon80> I mean, ubuntu howtos
<pianoboy3333> ? for submitting stuff?
<pianoboy3333> no thanks
<Simon80> like, getting a gpg key into the strong set, REVU, yeah
<pianoboy3333> the strong set?
<Simon80> hehe, if you want to upload your own packages, you need a trusted gpg key
<pianoboy3333> oh, right
<pianoboy3333> I have a gpg...
<pianoboy3333> I understand
<Simon80> which means having someone with a trusted key signing your key after meeting you in person
<pianoboy3333> if I everwanted to one day, there's stuff in yelp
<Simon80> trusted = strong set of keys
<pianoboy3333> right
<pianoboy3333> I need bash help right now.... a config script failed... holy crap
<Simon80> ....just look in config.log
<Simon80> that's not bash, anyhow
<Simon80> it's sh
<Simon80> no point making a portability script in a nonportable shell right?
<pianoboy3333> true...?
<pianoboy3333> lol
<pianoboy3333> Simon80: ./configure: line 9230: syntax error near unexpected token `;;'
<pianoboy3333> ./configure: line 9230: `       ;;'
<Simon80> oh, that's no good
<pianoboy3333> yea....
<Simon80> whose script is it?
<pianoboy3333> clamav....
<pianoboy3333> vers 0.88.6
<superm1> hey, any MOTU's hanging around right now that feeling like a revu'ing mood :)?
<pygi> superm1, I can help with advising, but I'm no MOTU
<superm1> well I submitted ivtv-firmware to revu.  Its based off of the flash plugin installer in main, but set up to grab the ivtv firmware from ivtvdriver.org
<minghua> ... flash plugin installer in main?
<minghua> I thought it's in multiverse?
<superm1> i thought it was in main.... there is a flash plugin installer
<pygi> superm1, nah, multiverse
* minghua checks
<pygi> minghua, it is
<superm1> oh well my bad then there
<minghua> pygi: good, thanks
<pygi> minghua, that would be a serious glitch :P
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> well nonetheless, its basically modified to fit grabbing the ivtv firmware and doing the same thing
<pygi> superm1, then it's suitable only for multiverse
<plugwash> btw what are the criteria for getting into ubuntus "restricted" section?
<Burgundavia> plugwash: restricted is basically supported multiverse
<Burgundavia> restricted means it is non-free yet also critical to the running of Ubuntu
<Simon80> so, you're not getting in there
<crimsun> usually that means hardware->kernel.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> drivers of all sorts live in restricted
<superm1> well i was hoping to get ivtv into restricted eventually too
<superm1> but it can live in multiverse for now
<superm1> the license that ivtvdriver.org has doesnt allow the firmware itself to sit on our repos though
<superm1> only on ivtvdriver.org and letting the user wget it
<crimsun> then it can't enter restricted.
<superm1> well not the firmware itself
<superm1> but the ivtv driver can
<superm1> right?
<crimsun> does the driver function without the firmware?
<superm1> it will load without the firmware
<superm1> but it just wont capture video until you install it
<crimsun> remember that restricted is distributed on CDs and thus must be redistributable from a Canonical-hosted server.
<superm1> ivtv itself is GPL and shouldnt have any troubles with that
<crimsun> if the driver is non-functional without the firmware, that kills its inclusion
<superm1> there is an option though for the firmware to be redistributed still though if we wanted to host it.  the windows drivers are allowed to be redistributed, and the firmware can be extracted from them during the package build
<Burgundavia> not really. Looki at bcm43xx
<crimsun> does the native bcm43xx require firmware?
<crimsun> err, not-included firmware, that is
<Burgundavia> yes
<superm1> well i thought it supplied a utility to take the firmware from windows drivers too
<Burgundavia> that is what fwcutter is for
<Burgundavia> apparently negotations with broadcom have gone nowhere
<crimsun> hmm, isn't there a thread on this ivtv issue?
<superm1> well i've been talking to axel thimm about it
<crimsun> someone raised in on kernel-team@ a while ago iirc
<crimsun> raised it^
<superm1> he has been negotiating with hauppauge
<superm1> about getting the firmware as redistributable
<Simon80> thing with broadcom is that if linksys et al haven't released drivers for those chips, they're violating the gpl
<superm1> but its going nowhere until conexant settles.  so for now he has a license to host it on his site for end user redistribution only
<superm1> so then having a firmware installer sitting in multiverse like i have on revu - is this doable for now?
<crimsun> a wget/curl thing? yes.
<crimsun> cf. flashplugin-nonfree
<crimsun> & msttcorefonts
<superm1> yea just like that
<superm1> i based it off flashplugin-nonfree
<superm1> this is it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3396
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-05
<joejaxx> if there is a case where the depends are different between the debian and ubuntu version we keep the ubuntu versions right?
<bddebian> I would say only if necessary and if there are other changes
<joejaxx> ok let me see
<LaserJock> well, there doesn't need to be other changes
<LaserJock> but only if necessary yes
<bddebian> I mean if there are other changes it would be OK.  Otherwise, only if necessary.  Does that make more sense?
<LaserJock> more yes
<LaserJock> but I wouldn't think we'd keep non-necessary changes in any case
<joejaxx> +       chmod 755 debian/rsh-server/usr/sbin/checkrhosts
<crimsun> essentially: "prefer the Debian packaging unless there's a compelling reason to use the Ubuntu delta, e.g., versioned dependency or specific package instead of virtual package, etc."
<joejaxx> that is the only change
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok
<bddebian> crimsun: Are you a DD?
<crimsun> bddebian: nope
<joejaxx> really i have no idea how to test this without installing the package
<joejaxx> since it is a depends issue and not a build depend issue
<somerville32> Do a simulation?
<joejaxx> somerville32: simulation?
<somerville32> Yeah. IT goes through the installation without actually installing anything thing.
<joejaxx> yeah but what about running it :P
<crimsun> joejaxx: thankfully there's /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/execute_installtest.sh
<crimsun> (not to mention B92test-pkg in that same dir)
<joejaxx> bug 76143
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76143 in netkit-rsh "missing dependency on update-inetd make it uninstallable on feisty" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76143
<joejaxx> bug #45991
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45991 in netkit-rsh "/usr/sbin/checkrhosts misses execute permision" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45991
<joejaxx> hmm
<crimsun> that would be a suitable Ubuntu delta if it's not already fixed in the Debian packaging
<joejaxx> crimsun: yeah nether are fixed in debian
<bddebian> Gawd I hate trying to get any help/advice in Debian :'-(
<crimsun> ?
<LaserJock> my gosh, Yahoo actually expects people to be able to use their new webmail?
<crimsun> LaserJock: it's extremely heavy on JavaScript but seems to work tolerably
<bddebian> Anyone familiar with conquest?
<crimsun> most of the time I end up reverting to classic mail, though
<LaserJock> it's completely unusable here :(
<LaserJock> I don't know maybe webmail isn't the way to go until I get a new laptop
<crimsun> I could see that
<joejaxx> bddebian: nope :\
 * Fujitsu wonders what is wrong with hosting your own mail and using a proper mail client, with webmail for when you're working remotely.
<jdong> Fujitsu: amen.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: The thing thats wrong with hosting your own mail is when Telstra kills your line for a painful length of time.
<jdong> whee, another azureus bug found....
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Ah, true.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Joy.
<joejaxx> jdong: :P
<jdong> is it a crime to put urgency=just-fscking-build-it-now? :)
<joejaxx> lololol
<jdong> the last round took like a week in queue :)
<Fujitsu> We're almost down to 1000 pending builds on i386! Not long to go now!
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> how many of those are Openoffice? :)
<Fujitsu> It's sped up now too, since Soyuz likes this number of builds more.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Haha.
<jdong> I'll work on a patch, then go back to starcraft then :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hosting my own mail where exactly?
<LaserJock> :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Wherever. Home?
<LaserJock> google and yahoo have the best uptime
<LaserJock> so they're the best way to make sure I can get to my email
<LaserJock> I've gone back and forth several times on what to do with email
<LaserJock> and have never really figured out a good solution
 * joejaxx is on a roll with the merges
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> i just did the uml-utilities one
<jdong> does setting urgency=medium actually do anything?
<LaserJock> not in Ubuntu I don't think
<Fujitsu> jdong: Not in Soyuz.
<joejaxx> now what do i have to put in these bug reports for merges?
<crimsun> joejaxx: well, a debdiff is good : )
<joejaxx> crimsun: :P i mean the bug content etc :P
<joejaxx> maybe my ivman merge is still on lp
 * joejaxx goes to look
 * Fujitsu points to requestsponsor
<jdong> ivman is still around?
<joejaxx> jdong: yes
<joejaxx> i use it :D
<jdong> haha
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: that is a script?
<jdong> joejaxx: anyone else? ;-)
 * joejaxx looks
<joejaxx> jdong: all the fluxbuntu users :D
<crimsun> pfft, 80386s are still around.  Of course ivman would be.  : )
<jdong> joejaxx: ah, ok
<Fujitsu> What's wrong with ivman?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not have a request sponsor script
<jdong> Fujitsu: just reminds me of the old days when hal automounting was just around :)
<joejaxx> is it in ubuntu-dev-tools?
 * LaserJock has never heard of ivman
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it is automounting for us without gnome :D
<Fujitsu> Hm, I'm sure we had a requestsponsor, but I can't see it anywhere. Maybe I was thinking of the argument to requestsync.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I think so
<imbrandon> ivman is what kubuntu uses also iirc
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's in universe, so I doubt it.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: but there is no application flag for merge for `requestsync`
<joejaxx> :\
<crimsun> at one point, Xubuntu used ivman
<jdong> crimsun: they switched like 2 releases back
<crimsun> right, something along that timeline
<_16aR__> hello, I've got a problem on a compilation. Some object doesn't find members of its own class ...
<jdong> imbrandon: doesn't KDE have its own thing that interfaces with hal for device insertion then uses pmount?
<_16aR__> here is the compile command :
<_16aR__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1683/
<imbrandon> jdong, yes _now_
<_16aR__> and here is an nm of an object
<_16aR__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1681/
<_16aR__> and here is one of the output : http://paste.ubuntu.com/1684/
<joejaxx> anyone have an example merge bug report?
<jdong> would a kind soul care to sponsor http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu3.debdiff?
 * jdong really hopes that's the last one....
<Fujitsu> jdong: I'll look at it.
<jdong> thanks
<jdong> it's a trivial patch to the .desktop file
<Fujitsu> jdong: So I saw. What is %U?
<jdong> Fujitsu: URL to file
<jdong> which Azureus doesn't like...
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<joejaxx> woohoo
<joejaxx> flwm is my first package for hardy :D
<crimsun> 'grats!
<joejaxx> crimsun: thanks :D
<Fujitsu> jdong: Do you have a bug number for that?
<LaserJock> hmm, so NetworkManager has taken to pegging my CPU after reboot occasionally
<joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/~joejaxx/+packages this is slowly getting bigger :D
<jdong> Fujitsu: it's the last comment on bug 57875
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in gutsy-backports "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
<jdong> vommenter didn't open new bug report
<Fujitsu> Ah, so not a bug on its own.
<jdong> right
<jdong> commenter*
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll upload shortly.
<LaserJock> it would be so lovely if hibernate ever consistently worked ;-)
<jdong> thanks muchly :)
<jdong> LaserJock: I've heard a lot of good things about tuxonice
<Fujitsu> (I don't think I'll bother test-building, as I last built it a few days ago, and this doesn't look like it can do much to the build)
<crimsun> LaserJock: it will freeze my gnome session occasionally, and I normally have to force-reload dbus
<joejaxx> how many packages do i need on that before i should go for motu :P
<jdong> Fujitsu: testbuild already succeeded here ;-)
 * jdong posts testing deb on bug report
<LaserJock> crimsun: mine seems to have a new "bug" every few weeks
<LaserJock> it's just so weird
<crimsun> joejaxx: it's not normally tied to number of source packages, per se, but rather continued involvement in the project over a sustained period
<Fujitsu> jdong: Uploaded.
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh ok
<joejaxx> :D
<crimsun> joejaxx: e.g., your work on Ubuntu Studio certainly is notable
<jdong> Fujitsu: thanks muchly :)
<Fujitsu> No problem... now, I have an exam in 3 hours, so I'd best actually study for it. That's not going to happen, of course.
<crimsun> 'luck, Fujitsu
<joejaxx> crimsun: yeah but that is not reflect in packages in universe :\
<Fujitsu> Thanks crimsun.
<joejaxx> reflected*
<joejaxx> that is only ubuntustudio-meta
<crimsun> joejaxx: have you worked closely with Colin (cjwatson)?
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> but not for packages :\
<LaserJock> you've also been around at UDSs
<jdong> Fujitsu: good luck man!
<crimsun> (my recommendation is to work actively through the hardy cycle and then apply)
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok
<Fujitsu> jdong: Thanks.
<LaserJock> I agree with crimsun
 * jdong puts MOTU work on his Hardy agenda too :)
<crimsun> a /major/ boon would be to work on 6.06 LTS -> 8.04 LTS upgrade testing
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you're a smart guy, just spend some consistent time working on MOTU stuff and it shouldn't be any problem
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok :D
<joejaxx> crimsun: i can do that
<joejaxx> lol after doing that flwm merge i just realized i can do this bug :D bug 48340
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48340 in flwm "Does not create an option to log into an flwm session in GDM" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48340
<joejaxx> there is no sessions file
<crimsun> sure, go for it
 * cyberix feels slightly depressed because his deb-packet is starting to be perfect, while at the same time it is becomming clearer that no repository is willing to take it.
<ScottK> joejaxx: In my experience, when it's time to apply, a MOTU will harass you to apply.
<LaserJock> cyberix: what is it?
<cyberix> Packaging great packages for myself doesn't really make sense.
<ScottK> cyberix: Because of licensing issues?
<joejaxx> ScottK: :P i will keep that indicator in mind :D
<cyberix> No source available.
<LaserJock> ?
<cyberix> Permissive license, but no source code available.
<crimsun> cyberix: eek, well, yeah, that's a major showstopper.  What work has been invested for Ubuntu multiverse?
<Fujitsu> And it's PE.
<ScottK> PE?
<Fujitsu> Windows executable.
<cyberix> It is unclear, if Ubuntu is willing to expand Multiverse with nonessential non-free packages.
<joejaxx> oh wow :\
<cyberix> Progress Quest
<crimsun> cyberix: e.g., we have no source for Adobe Flash, but we use a script to download it
<LaserJock> cyberix: we'd take it, if it's doable
<crimsun> (it -> tarball containing binary plugin)
<cyberix> http://progressquest.com/
<ScottK> Right, but Adobe flash isn't distributable
<cyberix> I posted it to REVU earlier
<cyberix> But the entry was closed.
<crimsun> ScottK: right
<joejaxx> that is a windows binary :\
<cyberix> joejaxx: Yep, but it works fine.
<crimsun> via wine?
<cyberix> yep
<LaserJock> hmm, do we have any sort of policy for that kind of thing?
<LaserJock> it's an interesting thought
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm not aware of any
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We do not.
<cyberix> I've made some Ubuntu-integration for it.
<cyberix> If you wan't to beta test, you can try http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/pq_6.2-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<cyberix> It _should_ work.
<crimsun> (it would be worthwhile to also post the urls for the source packaging)
<cyberix> I'll upload the new version to REVU
<cyberix> Please close it again, if it isn't ok
<Fujitsu> I don't really think we want multiverse to become a dumping ground for a lot of non-free Windows software.
<crimsun> cyberix: regarding the apparent wait time for inclusion, don't be discouraged.  I believe a major factor is that Ubuntu simply doesn't have procedure in place for such inclusion.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah :(
<joejaxx> should this a subject at the next MOTU meeting?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: why not?
<crimsun> joejaxx: I think it would be a TB decision
<Fujitsu> I agree with crimsun.
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know why TB would be interested, but doesn't hurt
<joejaxx> how do we go about that?
<crimsun> it would set precedent, I think
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> only in that it's a Windows binary, I guess that might open up security issues
<Fujitsu> Have we (that is Ubuntu, not Debian) accepted binary-only unimportant stuff before?
<LaserJock> sure
<crimsun> well, more importantly (I think), redistributability
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: have a luck at Multiverse :-)
<cyberix> dput done
<Fujitsu> And also, I don't like the idea of Wine having rdepends.
<Fujitsu> It's not the most stable of beasts, and generally has a blanket UVFe.
<cyberix> Will the entry unclose automagically, or should someone do something?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: The former.
<LaserJock> might this be a MC question as well?
 * ajmitch would prefer that multiverse be as small as possible
<crimsun> LaserJock: I don't think it really falls into MC's jurisdiction
 * cyberix does understand the minimal multiverse argument
<LaserJock> crimsun: I would think it would, at least in a hierarchical sense
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Right, that's what persia and I said last night.
<cyberix> I was talking earlier about a new "Beerbuntu repository".
<LaserJock> I personally would like to see any CC/TB issue go through the MC
<cyberix> But I think Progress Quest is a special case.
<Fujitsu> cyberix: Why?
<cyberix> Because it is more free than freeware
<LaserJock> but I understand how that may not reflect the current understanding
<crimsun> LaserJock: no offense, but I think that would be unnecessary overhead
<cyberix> It allows you to do almost anything
<joejaxx> cyberix: there is source though
<cyberix> It just doesn't ship with source code
<Fujitsu> cyberix: I fail to see the source.
<Fujitsu> So how can you do much?
<cyberix> Fujitsu: e.g. packaging
<cyberix> I'm not sure, if having a freeware repository makes sense
<cyberix> as most freeware may not allow packaging
<LaserJock> crimsun: I suppose, but as TB/CC are supposed to be over MC then escalation would mean going to MC first, even if it were not in a "we need to make a judgement on this" thing
<Fujitsu> In my opinion, it doesn't belong in Ubuntu.
<joejaxx> s/there\ is/there\ is\ not\ any/g
<cyberix> My proargument is Ubuntu integration.
<Fujitsu> But the TB has the final decision on that - they decide the purposes of the components.
<crimsun> not to stir ashes or anything, but it's similar to the KDE 4 snaps in universe bit IMO
<cyberix> And a proper bug channel for specific piece of software running inside Wine.
<LaserJock> crimsun: which should have been a MC issue
<cyberix> Instead of pouring all bug reports into Wine-package
<joejaxx> cyberix: why cannot people get wine and run it themselves? :)
<joejaxx> i have to do that with Oregon Trail with dosbox
<LaserJock> joejaxx: something similar could be said of virtually every package in Ubuntu ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Except that MC has no jurisdiction over the main people, and are probably going to bend to Canonical requests.
<joejaxx> and i would not want oregon trail in multiverse*
<cyberix> joejaxx: Ubuntu integration gives you easy installation and easy updates.
<cyberix> joejaxx: You'll neve have to know it is Windows software
<joejaxx> cyberix: not for windows binaries :\
<joejaxx> cyberix: yeah that is bad
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: the question was over Universe packages, which is the MC jurisdiction
<cyberix> :-D
<cyberix> joejaxx: Well it is not bad from the user experience perspective.
<joejaxx> this is almost like shipping roms for an emulator we have (well not exactly)
<crimsun> joejaxx: fairly similar, yes
<cyberix> sudo apt-get install efp
<Fujitsu> cyberix: What is the integration you speak of, other than apt-getting?
<cyberix> is an example
<LaserJock> if it's legal then there's no inherent reason not to
<crimsun> we can ship the emulator, but shipping the ROMs falls on a slippery slope
<joejaxx> crimsun: yeap
<cyberix> Fujitsu: desktop-file, mime-type integration, icon, man page
<Fujitsu> Shipping freeware Windows binaries is a very slipper slope. There are a lot of them.
<Fujitsu> *slippery
 * minghua agrees with Fujitsu.
<LaserJock> Multiverse is a slippery slope
<LaserJock> people maybe should've thought of that in the beginning ;-)
<minghua> And never underestimate some develop's dislike of non-free software.
 * joejaxx does not want Ubuntu to end up like Linspire lol
<minghua> You risk losing developers if you decide opening multiverse to all kinds of closed "freeware".
<joejaxx> now i forgot what i was going to do
<joejaxx> ok right the flwm bug
<Fujitsu> IMO, multiverse is for stuff which is almost free (ie. we have source, but it isn't free enough for multiverse), stuff that is restricted in some jurisdictions, and important very non-free stuff like Adobe Flash.
<cyberix> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<Fujitsu> And multiverse use should be minimised.
<crimsun> personally, cyberix, it would be worth investigating whether it can be offered via CNR
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, but that is stated nowhere
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: things that would be a serious inconvenience to users if we didn't have them
<LaserJock> 'The "multiverse" component contains software that is "not free"'
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, we need a decision on that, which can only come from the TB.
<cyberix> crimsun: I have no interrest in that as I've never used CNR and probably never will.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Right, that's a better way of putting it.
<minghua> And in the case of things like flash, I prefer a installer (i.e., pulling the non-free bits at install time) over a full package any day.
<cyberix> crimsun: But that might be just a sarcastic comment.
<cyberix> Btw
<cyberix> Please tell me, if I can improve pq package in someway.
<cyberix> Except for reverse-engineering it and producing the source code.
<joejaxx> lol
<minghua> On a different topic: what is the proper way to push a main package merge?  Should I just wait patiently in the -main-sponsors queue, or should I hunt sponsors actively?
<Fujitsu> minghua: I waited a couple of days, then attacked Hobbsee about it.
<joejaxx> minghua: it took a while for my packages to get through
<LaserJock> so we have 434 source packages in Multiverse (gutsy), that seems like more than "serious inconvenience"
<minghua> Fujitsu: Sounds fair, I'll wait for a while.
<joejaxx> and there are still some that have not been uploaded since last release
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: A lot of that is from Debian.
<crimsun> minghua: which?
<minghua> crimsun: scim-hangul, bug 155046.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155046 in scim-hangul "New upstream version 0.3.1 is available" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155046
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, I'm just saying we've never been picky before
<LaserJock> but clearly we need to be clear on the purpose of Multiverse
<somerville32> Why would developers be upset if there was a repository with non-free stuff (ie. freeware)?
<crimsun> minghua: uploaded to hardy.
<LaserJock> somerville32: ummm, because we're into FLOSS :-)
<minghua> crimsun: Thanks!
<pwnguin> somerville32: because they swore an oath to uphold the morality of Free Software...
<LaserJock> pwnguin: hehe
<somerville32> soren, it is kind of like not providing support to people using Windows just because they use a non-free system?
<somerville32> Gah
<somerville32> Sorry soren, stupid auto-nick complete.
<LaserJock> somerville32: we don't support Windows
<pwnguin> we dont "support" things in universe/multiverse anyways :P
<somerville32> Right.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: yes we do
<joejaxx> LaserJock: Dental FLOSS for All! :D
<pwnguin> LaserJock: the homepage disagrees
 * LaserJock bangs his head against a wall
<LaserJock> pwnguin: it is community supported
<crimsun> <cue sources.list comments>
<joejaxx> lol
<crimsun> (which are quite misleading)
<minghua> LaserJock: ... which sometimes (or for some packages) is non-existent (IMHO).
<LaserJock> minghua: that's fine
<somerville32> I think the issue is pretty complex.
<LaserJock> but it's just plain wrong to say that Universe is *not* supported
<pwnguin> so its more of a heisenburg uncertainty support
<somerville32> FLOSS on one side, providing easy to install software to provide a better experience on the other.
<pwnguin> where you dont know if the developers care or not until you look
<minghua> I actually have been thinking for quite a while that we need a "galaxy" component, larger than main but smaller than universe.
<crimsun> what would it encompass?
<persia> minghua: What problem does that solve?
<LaserJock> minghua: I know, but it's just too many components flying around
<LaserJock> i.e. a MOTU core set of packages
<Fujitsu> Stuff that we think is sane, and maintain fairly well?
<pwnguin> presumably the set of universe packages that people will "maintain"
<minghua> persia: So that users know which packages are better supported, and which ones are "completely on your own"?
<LaserJock> as set of packages that MOTU commits to supporting
<ajmitch> that'd have about 10 packages in it?
<pwnguin> whatever support means
 * TheMuso can't wait to get back into Universe work... Just as soon as he fully recovers from the flight.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yay! :D
<crimsun> 10 might be optimistic ;)
<ajmitch> why don't we all just go to debian when that happens? :)
<pwnguin> is anyone in MOTU on the security team?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol :D
<persia> minghua: I suppose, but I suspect that it would just encourage people to not care more about the remainder of universe
<joejaxx> pwnguin: which one
<joejaxx> swat?
<joejaxx> or core
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: The security team is made up of Canonical employees, and does main only.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: we have a MOTU Swat team
<Fujitsu> (well +restricted)
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: really?  al Canonical?
<tonyyarusso> *all
<pwnguin> im aware that security is all done in main
<minghua> persia: Well, can't be too much worse than current situation, if you pardon my pessimism.
<pwnguin> i was wondering _if_ security was to be provided to some portion of MOTU
<crimsun> persia: concur, and I'm not sure an additional component of that sort would not place undue burden on the active MOTU.  MOTU is mostly fluid IMO.
<pwnguin> whether there was any actual experience in MOTU for it
<persia> minghua: I disagree, but don't see value in arguing about who might be motivated to do waht.
<persia> crimsun: That matches my thoughts well.
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Yes, they have embargoes to keep and the like.
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: what's that?
<LaserJock> pwnguin: I don't agree that all security is done in main, what do you mean by that?
<joejaxx> pwnguin: sure
<joejaxx> motu swat
<ajmitch> not that a volunteer couldn't maintain an embargo
<minghua> persia: Now that I've raised it here, at least I know you and crimsun are against it, which is good to know.  I was never sure about the idea myself.
<persia> ajmitch: Many do, for specialised cases.
<crimsun> pwnguin: universe/multiverse security, like SRU, is best-[community]effort
<ajmitch> however there are restrictions for the security community on who's allowed on vendor notification lists
<ajmitch> so any volunteer would need to be trusted & vouched for
 * persia notes that "community" in terms of universe support often includes employees of various sponsoring firms
<ajmitch> of course, that's the way things are meant to be
<persia> ajmitch: True.  I was thinking of people who had a non-Ubuntu relation to those lists.
<crimsun> minghua: it's not so much that I disagree as much that I'm just not sure it would be a real change from status quo
<ajmitch> since canonical is not meant to be the only player in town
<somerville32> Do most users even really understand where the software is coming from?
<LaserJock> somerville32: hopefully not too much
<LaserJock> as long as it's Ubuntu
 * pwnguin hopes that users are aware of the upstream concept
<ajmitch> another reason why it's tricky to stick random windows binaries in multiverse
<LaserJock> pwnguin: lol
<crimsun> minghua: I think a real step toward an additional component with such guarantees would have to involve monetary compensation [and all of a sudden, Canonical would start to move toward what Red Hat did some years ago - and failed at IMO]
<minghua> crimsun: You raise valid concerns.  And it's definitely true that changes without significant perceivable gain should not happen.
<LaserJock> rather than a component I'd rather see a priority list
<LaserJock> or a priority set of packages
<ajmitch> "we choose to ignore X,Y & Z before ignoring A, B & C:
<LaserJock> we shouldn't waste too many resources messing around with packages that are often unused, obsolete, or just useless
<cyberix> Could someone clear the situation a bit by posting a new comment to REVU http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<minghua> crimsun: Hmm.  I never thought that way.  My main thoughts is that I can give my non-geeky friends a pointer and say "only install stuff from these repos, and you should be fine, for now and for future upgrades."
<cyberix> Of course it will not be a solution
<ajmitch> LaserJock: as frequently happens with unmet deps, FTBFS lists, etc
<persia> LaserJock: I don't really think that's ideal.  Each person (or team) might set a priority list, but I doubt my priorities match others, and I enjoy trolling the rcbugs list, which is not generally priority packages.
<cyberix> But rather the process that will follow
<ajmitch> persia: you're one of the few people who claims to use that list :)
<minghua> crimsun: Right now I can only point main to them, and that is usually not enough.
<LaserJock> persia: right, but I really don't care what you do ;-)
<LaserJock> you can do whatever you like
<crimsun> minghua: playing devil's advocate, such a component would nearly be all of Ubuntu universe synced from Debian ;)
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  You shouldn't care what I do, which is why I don't like the idea of generalised prioritisation.
<LaserJock> why not?
<minghua> Which goes back to the words LaserJock was against -- but I do tell my friends "universe is unsupported, you are on your own if you install stuff there."
 * pwnguin wonders what percentage of MOTU-ers can write source patches for upstream.
<persia> ajmitch: Dktrkranz does quite a bit as well.
<pwnguin> ive seen several people declare programming was not a nessecary trait for MOTU-ship
<crimsun> can or do?
<pwnguin> can
<LaserJock> pwnguin: would depend on the programming language I'd guess
<ajmitch> pwnguin: I can & have done so
<crimsun> I don't think we have any MOTU who haven't done upstream patching at some point.
<LaserJock> I don't think I can and never have
<LaserJock> for code anyway
<persia> pwnguin: That's true, as long as one can read code well, knows the basic packaging utilities, and is very concientious
<joejaxx> :)
<crimsun> ok, well, there's LaserJock.
<ajmitch> I haven't done any java patching, of course
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<ajmitch> but have done soe for C#, C, php & python
<ajmitch> I think any MOTU should be at least familiar enough with a language
<minghua> crimsun: Nah.  I don't encourage those friends to use unstable. :-)
 * Fujitsu has attacked Python, C, C++, Erlang.
<Fujitsu> (the last took a long time, and I didn't know the language prior, but...)
<LaserJock> minghua: see, this is the issue
<LaserJock> if Universe is less supportable than Debian (which is also community supported) then we have issues
<ajmitch> we do have issues
<Fujitsu> It is implicitly less supportable.
<minghua> No if, it's a fact that Ubuntu release's universe is less supportable than Debian stable.
<Fujitsu> It is much less maintained, we don't have people experienced in the maintenance of each package...
<minghua> I would even say it's less supportable than testing.
<persia> LaserJock: Part of that is about process.  We're not good at taking advantage of the work in Debian to maintain universe.  We need more / better tools, and more people actually maintaining the release, rather than working on the next one.
<minghua> Maybe on GNOME/KDE/XFCE/Multimedia main front it's quite supportable, but it pretty much fails everywhere else.
<LaserJock> minghua: is vs should be is my point
<pwnguin> whats the difference between maintaining a release and working on the next one?
<persia> pwnguin: SRUs
<LaserJock> Universe should inherently be as supported as Debian
<crimsun> accountability, I think, is tied to compensation, which becomes a ... charged point.
<LaserJock> I just can't see the difference
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: How?
<pwnguin> from what i can tell, SRUs are practically discouraged
<Fujitsu> We have nobody.
<minghua> LaserJock: I understand what you mean.  In ajmitch's words: we do have issues.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: people claiming responsibility for packages
<crimsun> pwnguin: I wouldn't say that
<LaserJock> right, so should we not fix the issues rather than giving up?
<persia> pwnguin: That's not quite true, we're just not as motivated as we should be.  SRUs are much more encouraged than Debian stable updates.
<ajmitch> and RMs who *will* remove a package from an upcoming release if it's not up to scratch
<minghua> LaserJock: How so?  ~30 MOTUs vs. ~500 DD and maintainers?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I would certainly like that removal policy.
<crimsun> LaserJock: fixing the issues requires resources, and we've seen that the handful of MOTU are stretched tremendously
<LaserJock> minghua: exactly!
 * pwnguin doesnt like that policy
<persia> Fujitsu: We need a pocket for it, and we don't have one...
<pwnguin> much of the software i use is not finished
<LaserJock> it is a resource issue, not a policy issue or inherent issue
<pwnguin> but usable
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it only works due to the stable/testing/unstable split
<pwnguin> example: desmume
<minghua> LaserJock: No, some policies have a effect on small (active) MOTU number, IMO.
<Fujitsu> We released Gutsy with a heap of libapache-* unmetdeps, because they might have become useful again in the future.
<Fujitsu> We need a way to blacklist packages from release, but I can't see how that would work.
<LaserJock> minghua: but we have no policy that states that Universe is any less supported than Debian
<persia> Fujitsu: Right, so we should be following up with SRUs to get that cleaned up.
<nxvl> !roadmap
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about roadmap - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> persia: SRU removals? I don't believe that to be possible.
<nxvl> _(
<nxvl> :(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we have no policy stating the level of support at all
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sure we do
<persia> Fujitsu: No, SRUs to make the broken packages either work or be dummy packages
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
<pwnguin> apparently "community" is a level of support?
<persia> (same source, but don't install as much)
<Fujitsu> persia: They're not going to be made to work, and making them dummy packages is probably silly.
<minghua> I have my theory about why MOTU, having a much more friendly atmosphere, fails to attract my contributors than Debian.  But it's probably not the right time/place to talk about it.
<ajmitch> minghua: because we don't scale at getting new people in
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe.  I don't like having anything that looks like it should work and just plain can't be installed.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that states what support won't be given :)
<LaserJock> minghua: because we're technically incompetent?
<Fujitsu> persia: Is that any worse than having a package that doesn't do anything, where it did in other releases?
<joejaxx> minghua: your contributors?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, that's a typo ;-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  With a dummy, there's a note in the changelog on upgrade.  With unmetdeps, the user has to figure the problem out on their own.
<Fujitsu> persia: It would be better to remove them, wouldn't it? There's nothing to transition to, so no purpose for a dummy.
<minghua> LaserJock: No.  I tends to think it's a social issue than a technical issue.
<minghua> joejaxx: Please rephrase, I don't understand.
<joejaxx> minghua: 20:36 < minghua> I have my theory about why MOTU, having a much more friendly  atmosphere, fails to attract my contributors than Debian.
 * Fujitsu notes that Ubuntu would generally attract less technically-competent people, so...
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought you said we were keeping them because we expected them to work again in the future.  I don't like to remove anything not being removed permanenty, because we don't have the infrastructure to handle that properly.
<minghua> joejaxx: Oh. s/my/more/.
<joejaxx> minghua: what did you mean by that?
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> ok
<Fujitsu> persia: I can't see them becoming useful again, but we won't generally remove things unless they're removed from Debian or will not become useful again.
<LaserJock> minghua: social as in being too friendly?
<pwnguin> well obviously MOTU is in trouble because Canonical hires the qualified ones to work on core dev type stuff ;)
<LaserJock> pwnguin: not often enough
<Fujitsu> The bugs about libapache-* have been sitting in Debian for about 6 months, and nothing has happened on most of them.
<ajmitch> and the rest of us just drift away :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<minghua> LaserJock: Not really, but related.  However as I've said, it's not the right time/place for me to discuss it.
<ajmitch> joejaxx: well I'm obviously not qualified :P
<persia> Fujitsu: If you think they should just be removed, I'm good for that: we don't have to wait for Debian.  It's just in the case where there is a temporary uselessness that I'd like to keep a dummy around until we get it fixed.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: bah :P
<Fujitsu> persia: The archive admins generally question that.
<joejaxx> well back to merges :D
<persia> Fujitsu: They do, but tend to agree if the case is well presented.  Do your research, present the documentation, and they will be gone.  Just don't expect the archive-admins to be happy if they have to come back in the future.
 * persia pokes joejaxx with mhwaveedit again
<joejaxx> persia: i will take a look
<joejaxx> :D
 * ajmitch has no universe merges to do
<persia> ajmitch: You could upload new Debian revisions, and merge those :)
<joejaxx> lol :D
<pwnguin> so under what circumstances should one pursue an SRU?
<joejaxx> would it not be better if grab-merge.sh created a directory with the name of the package and pulled everything to there?
<crimsun> pwnguin: easily understood, minimally invasive fix
<crimsun> pwnguin: i.e., someone in ubuntu-dev can eyeball and understand it and confirm that it fixes the issue
<joejaxx> persia: there are not present conflicts for that package :\
<persia> pwnguin: SRUs should be done if 1) the package is completely broken (doesn't install, FTBFS, cannot execute, etc), 2) there is a problem with a supported upgrade path, 3) There is an annoying and obvious bug that blocks user workflow or can cause data loss, for which a clear and small patch is the correct solution, and 4) you really, really, really want to.
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Not really. Thats kinda how I work already, i.e create a dir of the sourfce package name, and dump contents in there.
<persia> joejaxx: Yep.  It's a very easy merge.  Don't forget to file the Debian bug about the .desktop.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yeap that is how i do it too
 * Fujitsu notes that everybody is resigning from the IRC team these days.
<persia> Fujitsu: IRC is hard
<pwnguin> i cant imagine how that set intersects with the available talent into significantly more SRUs
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: from which team?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: IRC ops.
<ajmitch> ah, I should probably unsubscribe from there as well
<persia> pwnguin: Most cannot-install bugs and FTBFS bugs aren't that hard to fix: often just playing with dependencies.  Most cannot start bugs are due to Debian/Ubuntu infrastructure differences, and not too hard to solve.  Lots of them have solutions in Debian, or in the BTS.
<pwnguin> hopefully liw's testing tools will make it easier to identify these?
<pwnguin> im suprised it took so long, really
<ajmitch> we were waiting for people to come along & tell us how we should have been doing it sooner
<persia> pwnguin: Maybe: other tools may also help.  What it really needs is people who do the released work: some people shy from SRUs because they run development (which is usually broken in some way), and aren't prepared to test.
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Running such tests takes a non-trivial amount of computing resources.
<pwnguin> installing packages?
<persia> pwnguin: Yes, when installing 25,000 packages
<ajmitch> pwnguin: you have a full mirror of universe & time to install/uninstall/purge every one?
 * joejaxx is going to run lintian on all the package
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> packages*
<persia> (and possible combinations to detect correct use of "conflicts")
<ajmitch> cool, we've found ourselves some volunteers!
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: /me already does that.
<persia> joejaxx: Fujitsu does that twice a week.  I forget the URL offhand, but I'll dig it up.
<pwnguin> no, but in the scheme of building from source an install test seems like a drop in the bucket...
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: :D
<ajmitch> pwnguin: you think any of us build all of universe from source?
<pwnguin> no
<pwnguin> but LP does
<ajmitch> no, it doesn't
<ajmitch> we'd like it to
<persia> pwnguin: We only touch ~2000 packages out of ~14000.  It's the other ~12,000 that need help
<pwnguin> which parts of universe doesn't LP build?
<ajmitch> it's more which parts doesn't it *re*build
<persia> pwnguin: Anything not uploaded during the current release cycle
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: You would need to do it fairly regularly.
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: None at all.
<jdong> hmm, another logistical SRU question
<ajmitch> since there are binary packages in there which date back to warty or hoary
<persia> jdong: Go!
<pwnguin> heh
<ajmitch> which don't install or build anymore
<jdong> is it OK for a Gutsy SRU to roll back a package to Feisty version? :( (gtkpod-aac)
<jdong> what happened is that someone blindly uploaded the new upstream release of gtkpod-aac without realizing our libmp4v2 is too old for this new release
<persia> jdong: Umm..  There was an API change involved there: I'm really not sure that's the best solution.
<jdong> and gtkpod-aac in fact does not use AAC
<jdong> persia: I'd expect feisty sources to compile on Gutsy with minimal changes, right?
<jdong> persia: the only iffy part would be libgpod....
<minghua> Ugh.  Not again.  The person who upload that should be reprimanded IMHO.
<persia> jdong: I don't remember exactly.  Ask LucidFox or StevenK (who did the transition).  You can try.
<jdong> minghua: oh this has been discussed?
<ajmitch> afaik it wasn't me that broke stuff this time
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Mostly from apt-get.org or other random repos.
<minghua> jdong: No, just that I've seen the same thing happen on one of my Debian packages.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, there's also stuff from sid that hasn't been rebuilt for any supported release
<Fujitsu> minghua: Isn't that normally tepsipakki?
<ajmitch> persia: anything that was imported as source, was built (or at least an attempt was made)
<jdong> minghua: ah, ok
<minghua> Fujitsu: I don't remember who it was in my case.  But that was long ago.  I was just hoping such things are not happening these days.
<jdong> persia: well I'll just give a simple braindead prevu build a shot, and see what extent of changes are necessary to roll back.
<persia> ajmitch: Right, but we've sources from sid that haven't been rebuilt since warty/hoary
<minghua> Apparently (and disappointingly) not so.
<nxvl> hi :D
<nxvl> ready for REVU day?
<joejaxx> nxvl: lol
<persia> jdong: If you can find a (small) patch rather than a complete rollback, you'll probably have an easier time getting it introduced (but a rollback may be easier than a huge patch)
<persia> nxvl: It's been underway for 15 hours already!
<nxvl> persia: here comes in 3 hours :P
<gnomefreak> gos i hope this libx fixes X
<gnomefreak> god even
<joejaxx> persia: does this look good to you? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/mhwaveedit_1.4.13-1ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff.txt
<joejaxx> i feel like getting anothe Sprite lol
<ajmitch> get me one
<somerville32> What is the wiki page for details on how to get a sponsor for main?
<jdong> joejaxx: your pancreas would hate you :)
<jdong> persia: well the rollback idea failed miserably; now let's see if I can force gtkpod at gunpoint to use our libmp4v2 :)
<persia> joejaxx: Close.  You'll want the Debian .po files to make the diff smaller (or to mention something in the changelog)
<minghua> somerville32: I don't think there is a specific one for main, but the general page is quite detailed, and mentions both main and universe merges.
<persia> jdong: Good luck.  I seem to remember the API being completely different, so you'll get to have some fun :)
<ajmitch> somerville32: same as for universe, except subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
 * joejaxx sends ajmitch a Sprite over the internet :D
<joejaxx> persia: we want the debian translations?
<jdong> persia: yay, lovely.... :)
<persia> joejaxx: We either want the debian translations or we want to mention the difference in the changelog.  My swedish isn't up to taking a decision which.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i guess we can keep the ubuntu ones
<joejaxx> i will mention it in the changelog
<persia> joejaxx: Also, check the Russian: it looks like a codepage error.
<joejaxx> is there way to force dch to write a dist you want?
<crimsun> -D
<jdong> persia: pfft the new API is only used to do volume normalization headers on AAC
<joejaxx> i thought there was a flag for that
<jdong> persia: lemme see what I can do about that ;-)
<joejaxx> crimsun: ah! yes thanks
<persia> jdong: Great.  Thanks.
<joejaxx> persia: hmm
<minghua> jdong: is gutsy-backports open?
<jdong> minghua: yep
<minghua> jdong: Any authoritative procedure page?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess looks outdated.
<crimsun> minghua: what do you need uploaded?
<persia> minghua: What's outdated about that page?
<jdong> minghua: it's still correct, use the $distro-backports project on LP
<minghua> crimsun: The scim-hangul you just uploaded. :-)  There is a user requesting gutsy backport.
<crimsun> oh, right.
<joejaxx> persia: what does the formatting for the translation files mean?
<crimsun> well, if you can't wait for it to be available in hardy, I could toss it into gutsy-backports manually.
<minghua> persia: The "How to request a package to be backported" section doesn't mention gutsy at all.
 * joejaxx has not dealt with po files before
<persia> joejaxx: I need a little context.
<joejaxx> well for example
<joejaxx> in my patch in the ru file
<zul> evening
<joejaxx> it drops lines saying #~
<ajmitch> hello zul
<joejaxx> hello zul
<gnomefreak> anyone know the status of X fix in hardy by chance?
<zul> hey ajmitch and joejaxx
<persia> joejaxx: I believe those to be comments
<joejaxx> i hope they backport any fixes :( the open ati driver is messed up :(
<persia> gnomefreak: Waiting on compiles to see if that works.  If not, there may be a poke later in the week.
<minghua> crimsun: "well, if you can't wait for it to be available in hardy, I could toss it into gutsy-backports manually."  Is that to me?
<gnomefreak> persia: to see if what works?
<joejaxx> persia: what were you referencing when you said there was a issue with the russian po file?
<crimsun> minghua: yes
<persia> gnomefreak: X
<minghua> crimsun: If yes -- I can wait, but I am completely new to this backport business.
<gnomefreak> persia: missing depends is all it is afaik
<crimsun> minghua: ok, then I recommend using the -backports project procedure
<persia> joejaxx: I'm not in the target environment, but I see strings like "[S] Ã°ÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃ ÃÃÃÃÃÃÃ".  If you see Cyrillic, everything is good.
<persia> gnomefreak: Right, but there's a huge build queue...
<minghua> crimsun: I'm just trying to figure out if I should do it myself or ask the user who requested it to go through the procedure.
<gnomefreak> oh its been uploaded?
<crimsun> minghua: I'm pretty sure you would need to ack the non-dev backport request
<minghua> crimsun: Sure, I'll follow the -backports project procedure.
<persia> gnomefreak: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
 * gnomefreak gonna have to assume its been tested prior to uploading ;)
<joejaxx> persia: you are right
<joejaxx> persia: i see ???????
<joejaxx> but in the debdiff they are not ?????? characters
<minghua> I'll ack (I tested the backport), it's just the procedure is a bit unclear to me...
<persia> joejaxx: I don't imagine our Russian users will be most pleased by that.  Most seem to be using Audacity for recording, but they might want to play with mhwaveedit too :)
<persia> joejaxx: What do you see in the debdiff?  Ideally, it's all UTF-8, and properly marked as such.
<joejaxx> +msgid "[B] Volume adjust/fade"
<joejaxx> +msgstr "[B] Ã°ÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃ ÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃ"
<joejaxx> gah
<jdong> is autogen.sh what turns configure.in -> configure?
<joejaxx> it did not paste correctly
<persia> joejaxx: Yeah.  That doesn't look ideal.
<joejaxx> i see letters with accent marks on them
<gnomefreak> jdong: i think so
 * ajmitch does not see utf-8 encoded characters there :)
<ajmitch> and I've seen more than enough russian to say that's not it :)
 * gnomefreak hasnt see an autogen.sh in a while
<crimsun> jdong: autoconf, auctually.
<crimsun> actually*
<gnomefreak> autogen.sh build package?
<persia> joejaxx: So, something is funny.  You might want the Debian translations for now, and look at it later.  Alternately, you could try to fix it now.  Depends on if you are willing to set up a Russian locale, and try the program.
<joejaxx> yeah i have not tried playing around with locales before
<persia> joejaxx: Essentially, I don't think we should be introducing broken translations, although I fully admit that not everything is well translated.
<joejaxx> so drop all of them?
<ajmitch> persia: you read it well enough to see that it's broken?
<persia> joejaxx: If you've an Ubuntu patch, and it's introducing a bug, it's better to take the Debian solution :)
<joejaxx> ok
<minghua> PO's encoding/charset is clearly noted in the PO file itself.  It's not necessarily UTF-8.
<persia> ajmitch: I'm not on Ubuntu right now, so I can't test.  I'm just guessing from the debdiff.
<crimsun> somerville32: what did you need?
<persia> joejaxx: If you're having trouble testing, and get stuck on the PO, stick your in-progress debdiff in a bug and subscribe me: I'll test it in ~ 9 hours.
<joejaxx> persia: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/mhwaveedit_1.4.13-1ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff.txt i dropped all of them
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<jdong> persia: I think I got it :)
<jdong> persia: lemme build test before embarassing myself ;-)
<persia> joejaxx: I'm good for that: I don't see any changelog entries to explain the Ubuntu .po files anyway.
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<joejaxx> persia: yes that is why i thought it was weird
<persia> bddebian: You about?  Do you happen to have any memory remaining about the mhwaveedit 1.4.7-2ubuntu1 merge?
<bddebian> I did it?
<persia> bddebian: Well, you uploaded my desktop file at least :)
<bddebian> Ah :-)
<persia> bddebian: Do you remember anything about fussing with .po ffiles?
<bddebian> Not that I recall but let me look locally
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.
<persia> joejaxx: We'll wait to hear back from bddebian, but I suspect your latest debdiff is the correct one (assuming your local testing is successful)
<joejaxx> ok
<bddebian> Nuttin' here but your desktop file
<persia> bddebian: Great.  That was my memory as well.
<persia> joejaxx: That's it then: the .po variation is just an undocumented artifact of history, likely related to changes upstream.
<imbrandon> crimsun, ping
<crimsun> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> heya i'm cleaning up some space / ports , do you still actively use that sid vm ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: nope
<bddebian> persia: Do you happen to know conquest?
<imbrandon> cool, ok
<persia> bddebian: Only from the brief look a couple days ago: are you doing the fulll CDBS & quilt migration?
<bddebian> CDBS hell no, but I have debhelperized it
<persia> bddebian: coward :)
<bddebian> And I moved the libs so I need to test it
<joejaxx> persia: ok then it looks good to go i guess :D
<persia> joejaxx: Excellent.  Subscribe the sponsors queue, and someone will upload it.  Thanks for taking care of that.
<persia> joejaxx: Also, if you'd file a Debian bug, it'd be great :)
<joejaxx> persia: you are most welcome
<joejaxx> persia: yeah i have to look up the docs on submitting a debian bug :D
<jdong> WHOO! looks like it's accepting it.....
<persia> joejaxx: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<joejaxx> persia: ok thanks
<jdong> persia: care to sponsor the debdiff on bug 135168 into Hardy?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135168 in gnome-panel "apta" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135168
<jdong> err
<jdong> persia: care to sponsor the debdiff on bug 135178 into Hardy?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135178 in gtkpod-aac "[gutsy] gtkpod-aac does not live up to its name" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135178
<jdong> *that* looks more relevant :D
<jdong> I've build-tested and iPod-tested the change
<persia> jdong: I don't have access to the tools for such sponsorship currently.  How about subscribing the sponsors queue?
<jdong> persia: ok, will do :)
<persia> jdong: Just to check: does hardy need any adjustment to match that?  I like to avoid SRUs when the bug still exists in the development release.  If there is something needed, I'd suggest adding the debdiff to the same bug, and nominating against both Gutsy and Hardy.
<joejaxx> for some reason
<joejaxx> these merges are becoming fun for me
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> persia: the debdiff is to hardy, I'm preparing the Gutsy SRU for it right now
<jdong> persia: doing both at the same time will avoid that kind of gutsy-ahead-of-hardy situation :)
<persia> jdong: Ah.  I was just confused by the bug title :)
<jdong> persia: the bug's old :)
<jdong> ok, for SRU, I set version number to ubuntu1.1 or ubuntu1.1~prop1?
<jdong> do we still do the ~proposed thing?
<persia> jdong: Absolutely.
<jdong> ok, is there a preference between ~proposed1 and ~prop1?
<persia> Err.  Set the version number to the version that will be in -updates.  It gets uploaded to -proposed, and then sync'd.
<jdong> persia: ah, ok, that's different than the last time I did it ages ago :)
<persia> e.g. -32ubuntu17.12
<bddebian> Hmm, dh_installman doesn't compress the manpages?
<persia> bddebian: You want dh_compress
<bddebian> Well I have that but I am getting a warning that one of the manpages is not compressed, while the others are :-(
<persia> bddebian: That usually happens when 1) the manpage is (badly) compressed by something else, 2) the installation sequence is funny, or 3) one of the manpages is in the wrong directory.
<minghua> bddebian: In which order are you calling dh_installman and dh_compress?
<bddebian>         dh_installman -a
<bddebian>         dh_link -a
<bddebian>         dh_strip -a
<bddebian>         dh_compress -a
<persia> OK.  That eliminates 2).  What about 1) and 3) ?
<bddebian> Well I don't know about 1, I think 3 is out
<persia> (alternately, do you have a binary independent package being built for which you aren't calling these?)
<bddebian> Yes but no man pages in the -data package
<joejaxx> woohoo :D
<joejaxx> https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/rebuildd_0.2.2ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff.txt
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> another one
<joejaxx> lol
<minghua> persia: the -a option should rule out that possibility.
<persia> bddebian: Does upstream stick a manpage in /usr/share that ends up getting caught in the -data package by dh_install?  It never hurts to stick a dh_compress -i in binary-indep
<joejaxx> i think i should start filing bugs for them now lol
<minghua> (unless there is arch:all packages involved)
<bddebian> persia: Shouldn't but I'll check
<persia> minghua: Right, except for arch:all conquest-data :)
<persia> joejaxx: In addition to filing bugs to claim the merges, please check for open bugs on the packages when merging: frequently one can add a couple little things during the merge to make the package even better.
<jdong> persia: thanks for your help; nominated, attached the 2 debdiffs, and a testing package for the subscribers. And now we wait :D
<joejaxx> persia: does that not make it confusing though?
<persia> jdong: Excellent.  It's Sunday for a lot of people, so the queue might be slow, but it should be in fairly soon.
<joejaxx> doing bug fixes to a merging from debian unstable changeset?
<joejaxx> hello Amaranth
<persia> joejaxx: Not if you write the changelog properly: just clearly indicate what is a new change and what is a merge.  Doing it at the same time saves space on the archives and reduces buildd churn.
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<Amaranth> hey
<persia> joejaxx: As an example, look at the mhwaveedit changelog again: for a couple of the merges there was a general cleanup.
<persia> (not that that package gets many bugs)
<joejaxx> yeah :P
<RAOF> joejaxx: You should check the LP bugs for rebuildd :)
<RAOF> joejaxx: In particular, the *only* LP bug for rebuildd.
<imbrandon> ahh the wonders of computing , the eeepc is on sale finaly
<imbrandon> who wants to buy me one ? hehehe
<joejaxx> RAOF: yeap already there :D
<bddebian> What the hell processes <package>.conffiles?
<persia> RAOF: Are you planning a miro merge/sync?  I was tempted by the xine-lib transition, but wanted to ping you first.
<RAOF> persia: Yes, I am.
<persia> bddebian: $ dh_<TAB> ...
<RAOF> persia: It's mostly done, just blocking on me actually testing on a Hardy system.
<RAOF> Although I'd like to see _just_ how small a delta I can get against Debian.
<persia> RAOF: OK.  I'll leave it alone :)  Please don't forget to update the xine-lib bug (as it won't show in the changelog)
<RAOF> persia: Right, thanks.
<persia> RAOF: sync isn't possible?  I thought you were close a couple weeks ago.
<RAOF> persia: xulrunner!
<minghua> bddebian: dpkg.  But I'm not sure that's the answer you are looking for.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  Right.  Pity that.
<RAOF> persia: We'd need to build against xulrunner-1.9 instead of xulrunner, at least.
<bddebian> Well conquest has a .conffiles file
<RAOF> And there are a few more debian/rules niggles I need to push on debian.
<Amaranth> and it doesn't sound like debian will get xulrunner-1.9 anytime soon
<bddebian> And I'm installing /etc/foo in .install
<persia> Do we have xulrunner (not 1.9)?
<RAOF> And by the end of Hardy I hope to have no libxine dependency!
<RAOF> persia: Yes, but it doesn't work.
<Amaranth> persia: and mozcorp really doesn't like it
 * persia wonders why we don't just have xulrunner-1.9-0ubuntu1
<persia> Errr..  xulrunner_1.9-0ubuntu1
<RAOF> persia: Good question.  Ask asac :)
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> 1.9~a8-0ubuntu2
<persia> Amaranth: Right.
<Amaranth> it's the xulrunner from firefox 3 alpha 8
<joejaxx> RAOF: that bug was fixed if you look at the changelogs :D
<persia> bddebian: If dpkg is processing .conffiles (as minghua said), then .conffiles should just end up in DEBIAN/ in the binary, so installing /etc in .install should be fine.  The actual processing would take place at install time.
<RAOF> joejaxx: No, it wasn't.  I fixed the FTBFS, but in a way that's now a *dash*-ism.
<joejaxx> although it is ubuntu specific
<joejaxx> RAOF: yes
<joejaxx> that is why i said it was ubuntu specific :D
<RAOF> joejaxx: I thought the Debian maintainer had fixed it (using the actually portable printf), though?  He hasn't yet?
<persia> joejaxx: Not even.  Lots of Ubuntu people expect `debuild` to work in bash for a local build.
<minghua> persia: I am not sure it's right to have a debian/conffiles (or debian/<package>.conffiles) in source package, or if it requires special treatment in debian/rules.
<minghua> bddebian: ^^^ for you, too.
<Amaranth> persia: Those people are _wrong_ and deserved to be punished ;)
<Amaranth> and I didn't think you could even _have_ a dashism
<RAOF> persia: That's still going to work, though, unless someone has gone to the effort of re-symlinking /bin/sh to bash?
<persia> Amaranth: Why?  We often suggest that to users when asking for a local rebuild, etc. to test things.
<persia> RAOF: Does it?  Hrm.  I thought $SHELL might be exported from bash into make, and come out the other side, but I suppose you're more likely correct.
<RAOF> Amaranth: You can, by taking the behaviour specified in "man sh" as POSIX, rather than the more correct 'implementation defined'.
<Amaranth> persia: Notice the ';)
<Amaranth> RAOF: err
<Amaranth> shouldn't they all follow 'man sh'?
<RAOF>  Nope.
<persia> Amaranth: You're using "should" again :)
<RAOF> 'man sh' is not authorititive.
<RAOF> Much to my chagrin.
<minghua> sh(1) man page is diverted to dash(1) if you use dash as /bin/sh.
<minghua> otherwise it's linked to bash(1).
<minghua> There is simply no man page for POSIX-sh AFAIK.
<Amaranth> So RAOF was looking at dash explaining what _it_ does. :P
<RAOF> :(
<RAOF> joejaxx: Anyway, if you're going to do the rebuildd merge, can you fix the bug properly (with printf rather than echo)?
<RAOF> And then send that patch upstream to Debian?
<bddebian> I don't suppose any of you would have a chance to look at: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/conquest/ ?
<imbrandon> bddebian, wow Debian/hurd has no installer ? hehe
<bddebian> pfft :-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: does Debian/Hurd have a kernel?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, apparently gnumach.gz :)
<LaserJock> http://rubyforge.org/ is pretty cool
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have one of those for python
<minghua> http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi doesn't count?
<LaserJock> I didn't think so, but maybe
<LaserJock> I was thinking cheeseshop was more listing where rubyforge is more sourceforge-like
<joejaxx> RAOF: sure
<joejaxx> gah
<joejaxx> lol
 * joejaxx does not like being pulled into the submit a debian bug pool
<minghua> I don't think cheeseshop has a sourceforge-like platform either.  But I don't think it's very important.
<minghua> Does CPAN have a sourceforge-like platform?
<LaserJock> well, I think it's important if you're building projects rather than libraries
<LaserJock> libraries don't tend to need screenshots and things like that, the bling ;-)
<LaserJock> does that make sense?
<imbrandon> man i'm so utterly bored with the day to day the last few weeks
<bddebian> amen brother
<LaserJock> few weeks?
<imbrandon> yea its slowly getting worse, what do yall do to over come boredom at the computer ?
<bddebian> Buy The Witcher ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: step away from the computer
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i did that, no help really
<ajmitch> find another hobby
<LaserJock> hobby? what's that?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> hrm maybe a new webapp or work on an existing one, i always like to do that
 * imbrandon ponders
 * LaserJock too
 * joejaxx likes the word ponder
<imbrandon> i do wonder something though, why do the people on ubuntuweblogs.org not just add them selfs to planet.u.c ? i mean i dont see any that arent ubuntu members yet
 * joejaxx ponders submitting debian bugs
<joejaxx> imbrandon: maybe they are not ubuntu members? :D
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> maybe they do not know
 * ajmitch ponders blogging & decides not to
<LaserJock> I've given up on trying to figure out why people do what they do
<jdong> what? Nobody's going to tell me about the next newest Nokia device?
<LaserJock> I can't even figure out why I do what *I* do
<joejaxx> jdong: the new one is nice
<joejaxx> jdong: it has gps
<jdong> or tell me how to roll back my Gutsy kernel to a tribe 2 kernel to let my macbook suspend?
<joejaxx> that is crazy
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't know either
 * jdong glares at joejaxx :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahah me either
<jdong> joejaxx: yes, and I'll read Planet Maemo for my Nokia drooling :)
 * imbrandon is wishing for an eeepc
<imbrandon> 400$ on newegg
<jdong> imbrandon: it looks cool
<RAOF> joejaxx: I'll forward it to Debian if you really want.
<jdong> imbrandon: I wish they would increase the formfactor a bit in order to get insane battery life though...
<joejaxx> RAOF: no i need the experience
<joejaxx> :D
<bddebian> imbrandon: Join me on the games team, it's "fun" ;-)
<persia> joejaxx: The big value in submitting the Debian bugs is that you get the satisfaction of syncing next time, and don't need to do a merge.
<imbrandon> you know its a catch22 , i'd love to install and test and put diffrent devices through the ringer, specialy pda/mobile/sub-notebook computers but to get new ones from the mfg you have to already do that
<jdong> persia: you mean the big value is that the next time you want to moan about Launchpad, you'll think twice?
<bddebian> hehe
<persia> jdong: Well, that helps, but the BTS isn't that bad.
<jdong> persia: it's defintiely better than LP if manipulating the BTS is something that you have to do extremely often; but for occasional bugfiling the by-mail UI is a bit unintuitive/troublesome
<persia> jdong: Perhaps.  I have a template that I copy in, and just fill out a couple fields and attach a (tested against Debian) patch.
<jdong> persia: well once you have a template then yeah it's simple
<imbrandon> yea the only thing worse than a email only BTS is a usenet only BTS
<jdong> imbrandon: haha
<jdong> BTS-over-azureus? :D
<persia> imbrandon: No.  There are web forms that submit email to mail-to-news gateways...
<joejaxx> crimsun: who normally does lts upgrade testing?
<imbrandon> services imho should be avaible in as many forms as possible, especialy FL/OSS ones
<jdong> imbrandon: is there any reason Debian doesn't provide a web-based UI?
<imbrandon> jdong, no idea
<minghua> I'll take Debian's BTS over sourceforge BTS any day.
<imbrandon> no one has coded it ?
<minghua> (even I haven't gotten familiar with Debian BTS)
<joejaxx> bddebian: LOL
<imbrandon> well thats where we differ in opnion i think, i refer to it as a BTS because thats what they claim it is, to me its just a database full of emails, nothing more
<persia> jdong: imbrandon: part of it has to do with quality-of-bug concerns.  There's a group working on a front-end and a process to filter appropriately.
<joejaxx> does anyone know who does lts {,upgrade} testing?
<minghua> Debian BTS has a SOAP interface, in case anyone doesn't know that (and know what SOAP means).
<persia> joejaxx: This will be our second LTS, so there's no precedent.  You're welcome to jump in and help.
<joejaxx> minghua: NICE
<StevenK> And how is it hard to get familiar with Debian's BTS? It's just e-mail.
<LaserJock> minghua: really!?
<imbrandon> persia, bah thats just debian .... ummm whats the word for it ........ , not sure atm but point is there are TONS of BTS's with webui's infact debians is the only one i know of that dosent have one
<joejaxx> persia: crimsun mentioned me taking it on
<minghua> LaserJock: sure.
<minghua> ...seems quite some people here don't know that...
<LaserJock> minghua: I did a *very* little of SOAP and thought it was pretty cool
<imbrandon> StevenK, its not the point of getting used to it, its the point i CANT do it another way if i choose
<persia> joejaxx: Excellent.  I'm glad to hear it.  Thanks.
<LaserJock> I know there is a web interface for BTS in the works
<minghua> http://wiki.debian.org/DebbugsSoapInterface
<ajmitch> you can even search the BTS via LDAP
<joejaxx> persia: i think i will create a lp group for it as well so we can get some centralized stuff going
<LaserJock> ajmitch: if you want to spend eternity doing it ;-)
<joejaxx> persia: or should i say organization
<joejaxx> gah
<persia> joejaxx: That'd be great.  You might also want to ping Dktrkranz who was looking at getting either piuparts or some pbuilder scripts to automate some of the testing.
<joejaxx> persia: ok great
<StevenK> imbrandon: Okay, fine. Whagt do you want to do with a Debian bug that you can't?
<imbrandon> file one via a webui, or update the status of one
<StevenK> imbrandon: Well, you can't, so cope.
<LaserJock> should we perhaps get machine/hosting stuff figured out before we scatter stuff about? or not perhaps?
<imbrandon> i touch email as little as possible
<persia> imbrandon: I've not filed a Debian bug not using a browser in years.  It just requires the right front-end.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Changing the status is a very simple e-mail to control@bugs.d.o
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm with you, I've got an allergy to BTS ;-)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Fine, it which case use the 'bts' command line tool and reportbug.
<imbrandon> StevenK, i know how to , i mean via bugs.d.o when i'm looking over my bugs i cant change them easily
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that eternity is why I decided not to use the LDAP interface for the rc bugs list
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, I remember
<LaserJock> that's really sweet though that they have it
<persia> imbrandon: Look in one of the little packages of debian developer scripts (I forget which one).  There is a tool to modify/update the BTS from the command line.
<imbrandon> that might be ok , as long as it hasent been modified for ubuntu like reportbug
<StevenK> Yes. It's in devscripts and it's called 'bts'
<StevenK> I mentioned it like two minutes ago.
 * persia thanks StevenK for propping up my failing memory
<imbrandon> that still requires me to go from looking the bugs over on the web then switching to console and doing what i need/want
<imbrandon> not a very good workflow
<Zelut> is there any documentation on the REPORT file?  I'm trying my best here but this is a lot of new information :)
 * ajmitch notes that emacs integrates well with the BTS :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Okay, in which you just whinging and I'll stop helping you.
<persia> imbrandon: You can also view the bugs from the command line :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, no i mean really , i'm being serouious, if i'm over looking something cool, by all means, but i'm not whigning for the sake of it
<minghua> imbrandon: bts has a "cache" command, too.
<persia> Zelut: Not really.  The goal is to apply any relevant outstanding Ubuntu patches to the Debian package.  If REPORT isn't helping, you might do well to look at the package differences directly.
<minghua> Just learn the available tool.
<imbrandon> you know it would be really nice since LP imports ( or did at one time ) debian bugs, it would interact back with them via that soap interfact
<imbrandon> interface*
<Zelut> persia: as I understand there have been changes from the base in debian and ubuntu and it needs to be decided which will be used in this package?
<Zelut> persia: is it just a matter of removing lines >>>>> / <<<<< one way or the other?
<persia> Zelut: Mostly.  The Ubuntu package is based off a previous Debian package.  There have been updates in Debian, and the Ubuntu variations need to be reviewed to see if they are still relevant.  At the conclusion, you seek a new Ubuntu package based off the new Debian package.
<persia> Zelut: blindly selecting one or the other from the <<<<<< / >>>>>>> lines may do the right thing, but it is nearly as likely to result in a package that neither matches the new Debian package nor includes all relevant Ubuntu variation.
<LaserJock> and might even result in a sound thrashing ;-)
<Zelut> persia: I feel like what I'm missing here is some more experience with diff/patch
<Zelut> LaserJock: hey, I've got to start someplace.. I'm trying here :)
<persia> Zelut: Of course, if you understand your target goal, just removing the conflict lines may be the easiest way to generate the merge candidate: you want to first understand, and then plan a solution (for which MoM may be helpful)
<persia> Zelut: Ah.  In that case, I'd recommend you look for some bugs, rather than merges, and follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing to build some experience.
<Zelut> I thought I'd try to start with something simple from merges.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> a good starting place is to look at all the the Ubuntu changelog entries
<imbrandon> StevenK, ohhh `bts` looks nice
<imbrandon> serouisly
<Zelut> I'm trying htop
<nxvl> Zelut: diff tools are great :D
<nxvl> persia: hi!
<nxvl> imbrandon: hi
<persia> Zelut: I think it's best to start with a couple bugs: merges require a fair understanding of both the diff tools and also the process by which the previous variation was created.
<imbrandon> hello
<persia> hi nxvl
<StevenK> imbrandon: I have been using bts for about 12 months. It completly rocks.
<joejaxx> grr
<joejaxx> hth do you actually set yourself for mentoring?
<persia> joejaxx: To be mentored, or to mentor?
<ajmitch> beg, bribe
<joejaxx> +mentoring does not have any link to set yourself as a mentor
<joejaxx> persia: on lp
<joejaxx> sorry if i did not say that
<ajmitch> right, we thought you meant MOTU mentoring
<ajmitch> which is entirely separate
<persia> joejaxx: Everyone who belongs to a team is automatically a mentor.  If you want to mentor bugs, report this on the bug page, and select the team most appropriate.
 * joejaxx already has a MOTU mentor :D
<ajmitch> just be glad I'm not your mentor
<nxvl> for the FTBFS bugs i need to use pbuilder to check if it builds, didn't i?
<persia> s/mentor/potential mentor/1
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol why?
<joejaxx> nxvl: yes
<persia> nxvl: Or sbuild or a private buildd, or something, but basically, yes.
<joejaxx> nxvl: that is the only way to know if it builds :D
<ajmitch> joejaxx: because I'd have to find all sorts of weird & wonderful bugs for you to fix
<joejaxx> ajmitch: LOL!
<ajmitch> my attitude would be push until breaking point
<nxvl> mm i need to build my pbuilder system
<ajmitch> hence why I'm not a mentor
 * nxvl search the scripts
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<joejaxx> my mentor is LaserJock :D
 * LaserJock hides
 * bddebian looks for a mentor
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'll be your mentor :-)
<persia> bddebian: You can't have a mentor.
<persia> (well, maybe excepting Laserjock)
<LaserJock> bddebian: stop pouting and get to work!!! *Whip*
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> LaserJock: Cool thanks.  Now, help me fix this conquest ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: heah man, mentoring == fixing all your crap games ;-)
<LaserJock> !=
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: mentor me, pls
<LaserJock> phew, that could have  been disasterous
<bddebian> Sure it does.. :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Pfft, I couldn't even begin to touch your l33t sk1llZ
<LaserJock> has anybody actually used the "mentor" feature on LP?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm no deity
<persia> LaserJock: I have a few times, and generally found it attracts someone to fix it within a reasonably short period of time.  It just requires me being willing to provide pointers to all the necessary guides, hints at the solution, and review of the results.
<LaserJock> persia: but it did seem to work?
<persia> LaserJock: In what sense?
<LaserJock> as in, people wanted to be mentored
<LaserJock> I wondered if it would actually attract anyone who could fix the bug
<persia> LaserJock: Yes.  I haven't offered any new bugs for mentoring in a while, but in the spring a number of the people who are now active contributors were starting out, and hit my +mentoring bugs
<LaserJock> cool
<persia> LaserJock: Only offer mentoring for bugs you could fix, but are too lazy / busy to fix right now.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> that'll give me oh ... 0
<persia> (or it's just not important, like grammar errors in the manpage or the .desktop not validating, etc.)
<persia> LaserJock: You could fix a spelling error, no?
<LaserJock> thanks to my trusty spellchecker ;-)
<persia> (the mentoring part would be about getting the person in touch with upstream, and getting the patch applied there)
<LaserJock> packaging bugs I'm usually ok with
<persia> LaserJock: Just mentor all the bugs tagged "packaging" then :)
<LaserJock> probably not
<LaserJock> my response time is really bad nowadays
<nxvl> which was the apt command to download all build dependencies for a package? i can't find it on packaging guide
<bddebian> apt-get build-dep foo
<LaserJock> I keep saying I'll do something and somebody ends up getting to it before me :/
<imbrandon> apt-get build-dep blah
<nxvl> thnx
<nxvl> :D
<imbrandon> doh i forgot the password to my router
<persia> LaserJock: That's excellent: you're providing guidance and direction.
 * imbrandon grumbles
<persia> imbrandon: telnet port 1?
<imbrandon> telnet and ssh are disabled
<imbrandon> hrm
<jdong> magical reset port?
<imbrandon> jdong, then it will reset all my settings too , i'm trying to avoid that if possibly, but probably the only choice
<persia> jdong: For certain brands and models in the past.  I don't think anything modern actually exposes that anymore.
<jdong> persia: ah,  I meant the physical one
<LaserJock> imbrandon: think really really hard >:|
<jdong> persia: most routers should still have that 5-second static-ip TFTP window :)
<imbrandon> persia, its just a old fon thats reflashed
<jdong> imbrandon: do I envision you downloading some HTTP basic auth brute forcers? :)
<imbrandon> with dd-wrt
<persia> imbrandon: You and I obviously have different definitions of "old"
<imbrandon> jdong, nah, it only is a bridge to one client computer on wireless, i could just reset it if need be
<imbrandon> persia, well  in this case the first wireless ap i had :) so old to me
<jdong> see, this is why strong passwords are a denial-of-service and data loss vulnerability ;-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: next time just write it on a sticky note and stick it on it
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> jdong: Right.  Everyone should use cryptographic tokens.
<jdong> LaserJock: put it on the underside. nobody would look there.
<joejaxx> persia: yes
<joejaxx> persia: and smart card
<joejaxx> biometrics
<joejaxx> and hardware level encryption
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, that's what I do :-)
<LaserJock> sticky note underneath the laptop
 * persia avoids biometrics: there are enough motives for people to poke out my eye without inviting more
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> LaserJock: I just use the Windows XP license key printed on the barcode :)
<joejaxx> persia: lol
<LaserJock> jdong: oh, thats good
 * LaserJock out
<LaserJock> night everybody
<bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
<joejaxx> LaserJock: Goodnight :D
<nxvl> i'm getting a strange error
<nxvl> pbuilder says: E: Couldn't find package j2sdk1.4 but if i try to install it on my systems
<nxvl> it download
<nxvl> downloads*
<persia> nxvl: Does pbuilder have multiverse enabled?
<nxvl> persia: checking
<nxvl> nop
<nxvl> how do i enable it?
<persia> nxvl: No idea.  I've never used pbuilder :)
<StevenK> ///////
<nxvl> jajja
<nxvl> ok
 * nxvl searchs
<nxvl> added multiverse and universe :D
<imbrandon> ok other than a bash script is there a little tool to scan a subnet for used ip's ?
<nxvl> imbrandon: using nmapÂ¡
<nxvl> ?
<persia> imbrandon: nmap can be handy...
<imbrandon> nmap will only scan a single ip right ?
<nxvl> imbrandon: nop
<persia> imbrandon: Well, depends on what you pass it.  I think it traps 0.0.0.0/0, but that's about it.
<nxvl> imbrandon: you can do "nmap 192.168.5.16 192.168.5.18" and he will scan the 2 ip's or the ones you past
<nxvl> or you can do 192.168.5.0/24 or whatever you want
<nxvl> nmap is magica
<nxvl> magical
<imbrandon> can i do like nmap 192.168.1.0/24 ?
<imbrandon> kk
<minghua> I think that would be 3 ips.
<nxvl> imbrandon: yep
<minghua> Oh not.  Never mind.
<nxvl> imbrandon: nmap is magic
<nxvl> why the whois are so slowly
<imbrandon> hell of a lot better than ...
<persia> minghua: I suspect you're thinking of 192.168.5.16-18 (if I remember the range syntax properly)
<imbrandon> #!/bin/bash
<imbrandon> for ((i=1;i<=254;i+=1)); do
<imbrandon> echo $i
<imbrandon> ping -c 1 192.168.1.$i|grep ttl
<persia> heh
<imbrandon> done
<nxvl> imbrandon: what are you exactly doing
<nxvl> imbrandon: for that you can ping the broadcast
<imbrandon> just looking for all the ip's responding to ping on my subnet
<nxvl> imbrandon: ping the broadcast
<minghua> persia: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  (No idea about the correct grammar, though)
<nxvl> imbrandon: ping 192.168.1.255 -b
<imbrandon> 192.168.1.0/24 worked thanks
<nxvl> ok
<persia> nxvl: Not every stack implementation replies to broadcast pings.
<nxvl> persia: mmm that's true
<nxvl> sometimes i wonder what the hell am i doing on the office on sunday  at 00:25 o'clock
<nxvl> i need to be less workaholic
<nxvl> bye all
<imbrandon> woot, back into the router :)
<imbrandon> ~ # uname -a
<imbrandon> Linux fonbox 2.6.22.1 #43 Sat Jul 28 17:53:50 CEST 2007 mips unknown
<imbrandon> ~ #
<persia> imbrandon: That's lenny?
<imbrandon> nah, dd-wrt
<imbrandon> on a fon
<imbrandon> not sure i could put lenny on it without some major hacking, it only has 8mb flash
<persia> Ah.  That's tight.
<imbrandon> might be kinda funny to setup a mips pbuilder though
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: In 8mb?, or does it have a USB port?
<white> imbrandon: good luck building OOo on it ;)
<imbrandon> persia, well i would do some nfs mounting for more storage
<persia> white: Why?  Would it not just take an extra long time (assuming the ability to add disk, and use that disk for swap)
<imbrandon> white, lol
<white> persia: doesn't it take several days to build OOo on mips?
<imbrandon> well considering the fon is only 200mhz it would be quite slow.
<persia> imbrandon: Hmm...  Swap to NFS too, or is there a surprising amount of RAM?
<persia> white: I think it's longer for MIPS...
<imbrandon> nah 8mb ram 8 mb flash
<imbrandon> iirc , i'll have to check
<imbrandon> free
<imbrandon>   Mem:        13524        12264         1260            0         1348
<imbrandon>  Swap:            0            0            0
 * joejaxx plots doing a mips port of ubuntu
<joejaxx> i could do it
<joejaxx> i have the hardware
<persia> joejaxx: Could I convince you to do ARM first?
<imbrandon> arm
<imbrandon> ftw
<joejaxx> persia: i have arm machines but they are all mobile
<imbrandon> i've been looking for some good arm hardware for a long time
<joejaxx> ie it would take forever to build main
<imbrandon> desktop/server arm
<superm1> Fujitsu, you here?
<joejaxx> actually
<persia> white: last build: 20071022-1016 through 20071022-1040, which makes me think that there's something odd about OO.o for mips
<joejaxx> i could use my nokia 770 it would just take a while to compile
<persia> joejaxx: Isn't that a 624MHz machine?  Shouldn't be too bad...
<persia> (three or four weeks)
<joejaxx> persia: 252 MHz :P
<joejaxx> persia: that would take a long time
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> i could buy three or four more and cluster them
<persia> joejaxx: Really?  Hmmm...  I have a spare 400 laying around, but don't really know how to start the bootstrap.
<joejaxx> 400?
<imbrandon> 400mhz arm?
<imbrandon> wow
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> 400Mhz
<joejaxx> nice
<persia> joejaxx: PXA255 400MHz
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> so xscale
<imbrandon> arent there some chineese desktop arm boxen ?
<joejaxx> wth i forgot i had a ipaq
<joejaxx> let me look up the specs
<persia> imbrandon: They go up to around 800MHz these days, and nVidia has a couple 1Ghz chips in the lab...
<minghua> Chinese arm boxes?  I only heard MIPS ones.
<imbrandon> joejaxx, just send me all your old stuff you "forgot" about :)
 * persia thinks China likes MIPS
<imbrandon> ahh maybe it was mips
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<persia> imbrandon: For ARM, you need to look at Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Finland, Sweden, and the UK really.
<joejaxx> grr wth is my ipaq
<persia> NIght bddebian.  Good luck with conquest.
<joejaxx> lol my ipaq is only 206MHz
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> ok fun stuff
<joejaxx> i love my ipaq
<joejaxx> :D
<persia> joejaxx: If you can get a basic bootstrap going on your ipaQ to be a buildd, I'll volunteer to dig up my Z760 as a buildd for the -mobile seed.
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i need to get a 100Mbps ethernet card for it
<joejaxx> then i can get it a static
<persia> joejaxx: Can the bus handle that?  My Z760 doesn't get any benefit for more than 10
<tuxmaniac> can someone ack 135492
<tuxmaniac> ?
<joejaxx> bug 135492
<joejaxx> ubotu poke
<joejaxx> hmm
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135492 in libitpp "Update to latest version in Ubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135492
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about poke - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> tuxmaniac: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libitpp/ makes me think that bug doesn't have much value.
<tuxmaniac> persia, value as in?
<tuxmaniac> persia, its used by several students in some premier institutions in India
<persia> tuxmaniac: As in, we have 3.99.3.1-2 in hardy, so the bug doesn't do anything useful.  Further, We don't need sync bugs for packages without Ubuntu variation prior to Hardy, and lastly, please use the sponsorship queues to request approval.
<tuxmaniac> persia, aah ok. Sorry for the trouble
<persia> tuxmaniac: No problem.  It's a valid user request , and the bug needed attention.  The best way to handle it would have been to check the URL I provided, notice that Hardy already had it, and close the bug with a nice comment saying that it will be included in hardy.
<tuxmaniac> persia, ok
<tuxmaniac> thanks
<joejaxx> persia: i do not know that is why i need to get one
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<persia> tuxmaniac: No, thank you for noticing the bug, and trying to get it fixed :)
<tuxmaniac> :)
<joejaxx> i need to wipe it
<joejaxx> i am reflashing it now
<persia> joejaxx: Just to make sure, this is a spare machine, and you're using the 770 for normal stuff, right?
<joejaxx> yeap
<tuxmaniac> persia, close as in "Fix Rleased" right?
<persia> tuxmaniac: Yep (I've already done it for this bug)
<joejaxx> the ipaq will work great in this case as they have CF slots
<tuxmaniac> aah thanks
<joejaxx> i have not come across sd card ethernet cards lol
<persia> joejaxx: They have the silly drop-down to expose the wires and touch them to the cable-head trick.  Very fragile.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> the cf ones are more robust
 * persia wishes more handhelds still came with CF slots
 * joejaxx does too
 * joejaxx has an ipaq with and expansion sleeve with an extra battery + wlan card :D
<Fujitsu> superm1: I'm here now (sorry, was in an exam)
<superm1> Fujitsu, ah hi
<superm1> Fujitsu, i wanted to talk to you about mplayer 1.0~rc2, I started to get it packaged into bzr and clean up a bunch of stuff and then realized you were marked on a bug for it in progress
<Fujitsu> superm1: Ah, yes, I should probably get around to finishing that.
<superm1> Fujitsu, so hopefully your not too far invested in?
<Fujitsu> I've not done much.
<superm1> Fujitsu, i'm fairly close with it and am pushing to a new hardy bzr branch right now
<superm1> Fujitsu, okay, you mind if i nab it then?
<Fujitsu> superm1: Shouldn't it go into trunk?
<superm1> Fujitsu, well the way i looked there
<superm1> i put the new 1.0~rc2 into upstream-ubuntu
<superm1> branch
<Fujitsu> Yep, that's right.
<superm1> and then i did a 2 way merge from the gutsy and upstream-ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Is there a separate gutsy branch?
<superm1> well the "ubuntu" one was the gutsy one, and since there was a feisty one already, i figured might as well start a third for hardy
<joejaxx> well i am going to retire for the evening
<Fujitsu> The feisty branch only exists for security updates.
 * joejaxx will file those merge bug reports tomorrow
<Fujitsu> Hardy should be just using ubuntu.
<joejaxx> or i guess later today it is
<joejaxx> Goodnight All
<superm1> Fujitsu, well wouldn't it be the same situation for the gutsy one, that it would be for security updates too then?
<persia> joejaxx: Good night.
<Fujitsu> superm1: We haven't had any security updates yet, but yes.
<superm1> ( so it makes sense to have a third hardy one )
<Fujitsu> Renaming ubuntu-hardy to ubuntu is probably best.
<persia> superm1: Wouldn't you want to name the gutsy-stable branch "gutsy", and maintain trunk in "ubuntu"?
<superm1> yeah i'll do that after it finishes pushing
<superm1> its a rather large push
<Fujitsu> persia: That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, takes a number of hours.
<superm1> well i'm on a uni connection right now and using bzr+ssh, so hopefully it will be decently fast
<Fujitsu> We can branch ubuntu-hardy when hardy releases, rather than branching trunk off a release branch each time.
<superm1> well assuming there are no new versions like this time around
<superm1> i branched from ubuntu-gutsy, and then merged upstream-ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Ah, we normally branch ubuntu-<release> from trunk upon <release>'s release, the merge upstream-ubuntu into ubutnu.
<Fujitsu> Your way should work, i think.
<Fujitsu> Might just need to be careful about people who have existing local copies.
<Fujitsu> (that's another reason not renaming trunk is good)
<superm1> oh good point.
<superm1> i see what you mean
<superm1> well from this point forward i'll make sure to keep it that way
<Fujitsu> With the way bzr works, it should be safe to rename the new branch back to ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> (also, please assign the branch back to ~ubuntu-dev when you're done)
<superm1> of course
<nand_> hi!
<nand_> I'd like a review on the following package please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=539
 * nand_ wonders if a day include all the timezones...
<persia> nand_: Yes.  REVU day includes all the timezones, and is intended to be 49 hours long.  Some of our more active REVUers are currently still recovering from travel from UDS, so we're a little understaffed this time: next week we hope to be in better shape.
<nand_> persia: hehe ok!
<Fujitsu> superm1: Are you finished with mplayer? I might modify a couple of configure options if you're yet to upload.
 * nand_ doesn't want what a 49-hour day of work might be!
<nand_> s/want/want to know/
<minghua> Don't think that way.  Think about 73-hour weekends. :-)
<superm1> Fujitsu, i will be as long as this test build i'm doing right now
<persia> nand_: Nobody does the entire day at once: there are shifts taken.
<superm1> Fujitsu, i've had to adjust a lot of configure options already
<nand_> minghua: and a 24-hour night :)
<superm1> Fujitsu, because the autodetection works whereas hardcoding --enable-XYZ doesn't work
<Fujitsu> persia: I know, yeah.
<Fujitsu> ps.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<superm1> (as of this version)
<Fujitsu> superm1: ^^
<Fujitsu> Yeah, i saw that in the Debian package.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I thought you were responding to my untyped thought that you had likely sat for an exam and felt like reviewing things :)
<Fujitsu> Well, yes, I probably will review something tonight, as I don't have another exam for a couple of days.
<persia> nand_: I can't comment now, but is there anything in TODO.TXT you think is interesting for end-users?
<nand_> persia: TODO is a very precise roadmap of the features upstream plan
<nand_> persia: might be interesting
<Fujitsu> superm1: I'm thinking we should probably disable joystick support, particularly with the prevalence of motion sensors in laptops, and the general uselessness of joystick control.
<persia> nand_: I completely agree, and believe it to be very interesting for developers, I'm just not sure it's worth distributing to end-users.  If you think it is, that's fine
<persia> Fujitsu: What does joystick support break?  I have a mini-keyboard with extra function keys that uses the joystick driver, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was other, similar, hardware.
<superm1> persia, i've got a hdaps sensor in my thinkpad
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<superm1> that it gets very very annoying
<superm1> Fujitsu, i agree, there
<Fujitsu> We've had a couple of bugs about mplayer doing strange things on MacBooks.
<Fujitsu> The problem is that they appear as joysticks, and..... yes.
<persia> Is there any way to disable by default in a config file, and still compile in support for those that may want it?
<Fujitsu> persia: We can, yes.
<superm1> persia, hm perhaps that is the better solution
<Fujitsu> But I'm not sure how well our config-file mangling works at the moment.
<Fujitsu> I haven't looked into that much.
<superm1> well it worked for the screensaver fix that i put in during gutsy
<Fujitsu> OK, that sounds good.
<superm1> do you know the config option off hand?
<superm1> to disable joysticks
 * pwnguin scrambles to read backlog
<Fujitsu> superm1: It's in the bug on MacBooks, I'll get a number in a sec.
<pwnguin> disable joystick in what?
<nand_> persia: Well, that's a good question. What is generally done concerning upstream plans?
<persia> pwnguin: mplayer, and only in the config file, so you can turn it on if you want.
<Fujitsu> Bug #119630
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119630 in mplayer "spurious keyboard input on intel macbook to blobwars and mplayer (dup-of: 75925)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119630
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75925 in mplayer "[edgy] Disable joystick by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75925
<persia> nand_: Usually just left in the source package.  Anyone looking at the source will see it, but most users don't need it.
<pwnguin> go nuts
<superm1> Fujitsu, okay thanks i'll add that in
<nand_> persia: ok.
<pwnguin> in a perfect world totem would actually inhibit dpms
<persia> Fujitsu: I'd argue that 119630 for blobwars was user error, but the the mplayer side is more annoying.
<pwnguin> (and render softsubs accurately)
<Fujitsu> persia: The bug is against mplayer, so..
<persia> Fujitsu: Good.  I wasn't planning on turning off joystick support for a platform game :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Haha.
<nand_> persia: just remembered: I have this comment on REVU : 6) the ike-qtgui package doesnât ship the upstream changelog . Since i was shipping TODO.txt and README.txt, i guess it was referring to the todo.
<persia> nand_: That's sort of the inverse of a changelog.  Users like to have upstream changelogs because changelog.Debian doesn't contain much information beyond "new upstream version", and some people want to see if their pet issues were adjusted, etc.
 * Fujitsu gets mildly unhappy when packages don't have changelogs.
<persia> Fujitsu: How about when upstream doesn't produce one, and the VCS log doesn't have comments :)
<nand_> persia: in fact, TODO.txt is both a changelog and a todo list. So i should let it be.
 * persia looks again
<Fujitsu> persia: Then the upstream probably shouldn't be trusted anyway.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm inclined to agree, but I could find some examples...
<minghua> persia: In that case, I would say packager should persuade upstream release manager to include "vcs log" output as changelog in releases.
<wallyweek> 'morning all! :)
<pwnguin> hey, is ~ a shell expansion for homedir?
<persia> pwnguin: For some definitions of "shell", including dash and bash
<pwnguin> so definately not something fopen("~/.foo/bar") would handle correctly
<persia> pwnguin: Right.
<nand_> nanap
<nand_> uh sry
<pwnguin> surely someone's envisoned a "correct" way to do that
<persia> pwnguin: query the user information from the system
<superm1> pwnguin, typically an env variable like HOME
<persia> superm1: As long as it's unix, there's a better way...  I'll dig it up.
<wallyweek> this has been in revu since march and got some review before revu went down in august
<wallyweek> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sdlmame
<wallyweek> could anyone help me to get it finally in the repositories? thanx! :)
<pwnguin> persia: well, it may or may not be unix. one could probably check passwd
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: getent, please.
<pwnguin> Fujitsu: naturally.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thank you.
 * nand_ goes take a short 4-hours nap before starting his 48-hours day
<Fujitsu> Yay, less than 1000 builds to go on i386.
 * persia stops looking at ike, after determining that TODO should be installed with dh_changelogs instead of dh_installdocs, and looks at something else.
<nand_> persia: Ah!
 * nand_ puts it on his todo list.
<nand_> persia: thanks for looking into it.
<persia> nand_: No problem.  If you finish your long day (or get a break) before the end of REVU day, be sure to ask for another look: I think you're getting real close.
<nand_> persia: sure.
<persia> nand_: Also, you might want to look into make variables: there's a much easier way to do all the manual cleaning.
<nand_> persia: true enough, it's a bit messy here.
<persia> wallyweek: I can't comment on REVU, but I've  few notes: firstly that you probably want to pass whatsnew.txtx and whatsnew_0120u1.txt to dh_installchangelogs
<Fujitsu> persia: Why can't you comment? Don't have your key and can't remember the password?
<persia> Fujitsu: got it in one :)
<Fujitsu> The password can be changed easily.
<persia> Fujitsu: From the web interface, without the key, and without the old one?  That sounds like manual tweaking, which isn't worth it when I can't run lintian, linda, desktop-file-validate, or suspicious-source anyway.
<Fujitsu> persia: With one line on  a shell on sparky.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  manual tweaking.  No worries: since I can't do a proper review, I'd rather not leave a comment implying I can (as long as the uploader is around)
<Fujitsu> OK.
<wallyweek> persia: ok
<Hobbsee> persia: here, i'll give your p/w back to you, if you like
<Fujitsu> That's true, we can actually retrieve passwords too.
<persia> No, I'm fine, and I'd rather be an example for others who don't have REVU comment rights, and want to comment on packages.  REVU day is about everyone: not my ability to log in.
<Hobbsee> persia: what's the email that you use to log onto revu with?
<Hobbsee> persia: true, but i'm here now, so :)
<persia> Hobbsee: i.wont@tell.you :P
<Hobbsee> dont make me search the DB :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Really, I'm fine with my password, and don't need to be able to log in.
<Hobbsee> oh well, OK
 * Hobbsee logs out
<Hobbsee> gah, was going to clear stuff out first
 * persia thanks Fujitsu and Hobbsee for their willingness to fix things
 * Fujitsu thanks the relaxed permissions on sparky.
<persia> wallyweek: This looks like a repack, but there's not a get-orig-source in debian/rules, so it's hard to verify your repack work.  Also, please add a watch file so we can see if there is a new upstream version for the next release.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: is libqalculate on the revu interface?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Looking.
<Hobbsee> er, web interface?
<Fujitsu> Yes, right near the bottom.
<persia> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libqalculate
<Hobbsee> ah, good
 * Hobbsee wtf's?
<Fujitsu> What an old email address.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Why?
<Hobbsee> just looking at other stuf here
<Hobbsee> Changed-By: Matt T. Proud <mtp@google.com>
<Hobbsee> we have a googler
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Fujitsu> Which package?
<persia> I thought we had about a dozen of those
<Hobbsee> it really is him, too
<persia> wallyweek: I don't believe you need to include the man directiories in every dirs file: dh_installman should generate those (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
<nand_> persia: what did you have in mind with the make variables?
<persia> nand_: At a quick glance it appears you were manually iterating over a set: make can automate this though interative execution of dynamic rules.
<Hobbsee> appears not to be on irc, either.
<Hobbsee> the guy has 2 keys, and didnt use either of them to sign his package
<persia> nand_: So, if you define a variable to contain strings of all the filename classes you want to clean up, and then you can define a virtual rule that can take the name of any of those classes, and perform the appropriate deletions based on the rule name.  Then you make your clean rule depend on the expanded variable, and it all works.
<nand_> persia: hmm... I think i see.
<persia> wallyweek: The only other thing I see from a quick glance is that you're linking to the mame man page, but you don't conflict with other mame packages: I suspect you either want to conflict, or use the alternatives system.
<persia> nand_: Look for an example for compiling.  Usually some list is defined, and then $(LIST).o: $(LIST).c is given as a rule (check the manual for syntax), which rule defines how to compile one file.  Then, all: $(LIST) is defined, so make all will call the rule for each item in list...
<persia> The same thing also works in debian/rules, although it's less frequently required.
<nand_> persia: Ah ok I see!
<persia> err.  all: $(LIST).o
<persia> nand_: Just really check the manual.  My syntax is very likely wrong.
<wallyweek> persia: from first to last: is get-orig-source a rules target? isn't enough to state repackagin in changelog/copyright?
<Fujitsu> wallyweek: Please implement get-orig-source.
<persia> wallyweek: Only stating it is policy compliant, but providing a debian/rules target means we don't have to trust you to see it is correct. (and users don't need to trust us that we checked it)
<wallyweek> persia: manpages go in different binary packages. Should I list them all as dh_installman arguments?
<wallyweek> persia: mame is a symlink for frotends compatibiliy... I can remove it as well
<persia> wallyweek: packagename.manpages does the right thing.  I just don't think you need to define the manpage directories in package.dirs
<persia> wallyweek: I'm not sure you want to remove it, so much as investigate the other mame packages, and follow their practices (either conflict against other providers of the symlink and provide a meta-package, or use the alternatives system)
<wallyweek> persia: right, I'm going to edit files and be back in a while :)
<persia> wallyweek: Great.  Thanks.
<wallyweek> persia, Fujitsu: checking the sdlmame site, there's no older source archive online :(
<wallyweek> please post some suggestion... thanks! :)
<persia> wallyweek: Is the current archive available?
<wallyweek> persia: they've released 120u2, and deleted 120u1
<wallyweek> and dev cycle is a new release each week :(
<wallyweek> they're driving me mad :p
<persia> wallyweek: so we should expect 120u3 next week?
<wallyweek> yes... it usually is up on tuesday
<persia> Fujitsu: What do you think?  I'm not sure how it would work unless the wayback machine is being agressivev.
<minghua> Headache inducing upstream.
<wallyweek> :)
<Fujitsu> Hm... attack upstream until they do something sane.
<Fujitsu> Deleting old sources is silly and makes things difficult.
<superm1> Fujitsu, okay uploaded mplayer.  whew that was a much uglier merge than i expected :)
<persia> wallyweek: Do you think you might be able to convince them to pick a version that you could distribute in Ubuntu and leave the archive up for a while?
<wallyweek> nope
<wallyweek> :(
<Fujitsu> superm1: Yep, that's why I didn't finish it quickly.
<Fujitsu> superm1: Thanks.
<minghua> wallyweek: Do upstream sign their releases?
<wallyweek> their chiefly interest is to make sdlmame available for source building only :(
<minghua> (if yes, a mirror with all releases probably will do)
<persia> wallyweek: I'm really not sure then.  We generally try to avoid repacks without get-orig-source, as it makes it annoying to update it for a newer release.
<superm1> Fujitsu, i started it on the last day of UDS when there weren't any interesting sessions left, did some on the plane ride back, and then the rest tonight.  It was overall fun to do :)
<superm1> no prob
<persia> wallyweek: Do they not consider sdlmame to be stable enough yet?
<wallyweek> minghua: no, AFAIK
<superm1> okay well i'm going to get to bed now.  g'night
<minghua> Upstream can go to hell, IMHO.  :-P
<persia> wallyweek: Do they have a public VCS repository?
<persia> good night superm1
<wallyweek> persia: it's not a public one
<wallyweek> persia: and I've got no auth even to see it
<persia> wallyweek: Well, we can help you to get the package perfect, but it's going to be an uphill struggle to get it into the archives with upstream being that uncooperative.
<Fujitsu> Not.... public.... ew.
<Fujitsu> Why isn't it public?
<Fujitsu> Are they trying to be as non-free as possible while being free?
<wallyweek> fujitsu: I don't know :(
<persia> Fujitsu: s3kr1+ g4mrz d4+4
<wallyweek> fujitsu: possibly yes ;)
<Fujitsu> persia: Aha.
<minghua> secret gamrs data?  Is that what persia saying?
<Fujitsu> I presume so.
<Fujitsu> I daren't attempt to look at that abomination much.
<persia> minghua: Well, sort of.  I'm putting it in funny characters to make a sarcastic point.
<minghua> What does gamrs mean then...
<persia> minghua: Secret gamers data (sort of)
 * persia can read 1337, but has trouble typing it
<minghua> "gamers data" is still parser error to me.
<minghua> or "gamers' data".
<persia> minghua: Secret data only available to the gamers who are hacking the code
<minghua> Ah.  By gamers you mean developers.
<persia> minghua: Specifically not.  developers who write open source software do so in open repositories
<wallyweek> fujitsu, persia: the code *is* accessible, the VCS repository is not...
<minghua> Anyway, I maintain my idea that upstream can go to hell.
<xstasi> lol
<wallyweek> I think they've been flooded with patches so they decided to make it not accessible by everyone
<persia> wallyweek: There's only a weekly snapshot.  That means that 1) we have to download every week if we want to know what they did, an 2) people with patches can't check what upstream is doing to make sure the patch is compatible with the current efforts.
<wallyweek> persia: right, I understand that
<persia> wallyweek: 2) isn't terrible, and there's good software that uses that model, and 1) isn't destructive, but the combination is useless.
<wallyweek> persia: ok, I'll see what I can do to convince upstreamers to keep older sources at least
<wallyweek> could this be enough?
<wallyweek> I mean: some kind of "freeze"
<persia> wallyweek: If they keep a mirror of all the snapshots (maybe space intensive, but shouldn't use much bandwidth), and you can make a get-orig-source that works, that problem goes away, and we're likely down to lintian and licensing.
<Fujitsu> Or do what every other upstream on the planet does, and keep sources around.
<Fujitsu> Indefinitely.
<persia> wallyweek: Not a freeze, just when they add a new one, don't delete the old one.
<wallyweek> persia, fujitsu: devel cycle consists of unstable and stable releases
<persia> wallyweek: Do they leave the "stable" releases around forever?
<wallyweek> should I ask for a full archive or would the stable releases be enough?
<wallyweek> no
<wallyweek> they keep until next stable release (each month, normally)
<persia> wallyweek: stable is enough, as long as you're packaging a stable.  That's a better candidate for inclusion anyway.
<wallyweek> ok
<persia> (and they should keep them around forever)
 * persia wonders if REVU is as much a club with which to beat upstreams as a mechanism for including software in Ubuntu
<wallyweek> ok, I'll see what I can do... I have to hold for this meanwhile :(
<wallyweek> btw, I also have another couple of packages in revu... may we carry on with them?
<wallyweek> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=btpd
<wallyweek> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=shorten
<wallyweek> thanks :p
<persia> wallyweek: I have to get back to other things for a couple hours, but someone else might be able to review...
<StevenHarperUK> Hi : I do believe its package Review day! Can someone (an MOTU) review may package on REVU - it currently has 0 reviews - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=541
<wallyweek> persia: ok, thanks for you help, anyway! :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I'm not reviewing right now, but just wanted to check on point 3, as I haven't reviewed the backscroll.  Are you disregarding get-orig-source because you've switched to a real release instead of an SVN checkout?
<StevenHarperUK> persia : I am on a real release now yes
<StevenHarperUK> persia: it that enough?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: *is
<persia> StevenHarperUK: OK.  Great.  I still like get-orig-source, but there's no requirement to have it for a real release.  I'll take another look if it's still at 0 reviews when I again am reviewing.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks, I plan to get as many reviews / revisions as it takes today :p
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Great.  There's about 25:30 left in REVU day, so you've a good chance.
 * Hobbsee thinks persia is bad at maths.
 * persia hunts a calendar
 * persia points at http://www.worldtimezone.com/time/wtzresult.php?CiID=42124 to justify the 25:30 figure
<persia> Hobbsee: Kiribati to Niue :)
<huats> morning everyone
<Hobbsee> persia: i thought you were advocating a 49 hour revu day before
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes, I was.  It appears that the introduction / removal of daylight savings time has shortened that to 48 hours for the next few months :(
<Hobbsee> awww
<Fujitsu> Damn :(
<persia> Hobbsee: It's hard to justify it's Monday when there isn't anywhere on the globe where it is monday.  I'd appreciate it if you could buy an island, declare sovreignity, and claim some more time zones.
<Hobbsee> true :)
<Hobbsee> that would be fun :)
<pwnguin> declare metric time!
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Yes!
 * ajmitch shudders to think of Hobbsee as dictator
 * Hobbsee dictates that ajmitch GET REVIEWING!
<ajmitch> can't
 * persia points out there are three reviews without responses pending
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes you can.
<ajmitch> that would require me to have some confidence in my abilities to review properly
<persia> ajmitch: You could at least run linda and lintian for people, and comment about the style of files in debian/
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're a DD.  get to it.
<ajmitch> for now
<Hobbsee> you're quitting that too?
<StevenHarperUK> Anyone having a look at easycrypt - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=541
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Even though we encourage regular advertisment during REVU day, please keep it to only once every few hours unless you've made a new upload.
<pwnguin> less than a thousand builds left in the sync?
<pwnguin> might be time to look into my pet packages
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: That's i386-only :(
<persia> pwnguin: Still 3928 for hppa (and only 3 for lpia)
<persia> Actually, shouldn't there be none for lpia?  Why isn't anything building?  Hrm.
<Fujitsu> persia: Because the queue-builder sucks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.  I keep forgetting.
<pwnguin> is i386-only different than i386?
<persia> pwnguin: No.  i386 runs with -A
<persia> Grr.  It is a 49 hour day.  It started an hour before I changed the topic because there are lots of timezones in Kitibati.  "Kiritimati to Alofi"
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me how can I fix a bug using my PPA. I mean I know the fix, I have created a patch and I will upload the package to my PPA. But should I put the ~ppa1 in version in the latest changelog entry?
<wallyweek> Can anyone have a look at my packages?
<wallyweek> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=btpd
<wallyweek> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=shorten
<wallyweek> thanks :)
<tepsipakki> jdong: thanks for caring about gtkpod-aac :)
<pwnguin> success
<pwnguin> soulfu is now packaged
<ajmitch> yay
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me how can I fix a bug using my PPA. I mean I know the fix, I have created a patch and I will upload the package to my PPA. But should I put the ~ppa1 in version in the latest changelog entry?
<pwnguin> bedtime now. i guess i'll upload to revu in the mornin
<nand_> I request a review of my package ike please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ike  . Thanks!
<pwnguin> im sure theres tons of errors i've made
<nand_> wallyweek: I'm transmitting a comment I got on my package : In the control file, homepage should now be put on its field (cf http://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews)
<wallyweek> nand_: I missed that. Thanks! :)
<broonie> slytherin: yes, it's better to have a PPA-specific version so that the PPA version doesn't interfere with versions from the main archive.
<slytherin> broonie: Ok. I have just uploaded a package to my PPA that fixes a problem (generic menu icon) in 'tagtool'. Now what is next step?
<StevenHarperUK>  Hi : I do believe its package Review day! Can someone (an MOTU) review may package on REVU - it currently has 0 reviews - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=541
<nand_> StevenHarperUK: Just a note : According to http://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews, I believe the homepage field should be put on the source area, and not the package area.
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Please fix what nand_ said. I'm looking over it now.
<StevenHarperUK> Ok ill do that now
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Couple of other issues that I'll add a comment about in a sec.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Great
<wallyweek> fujitsu: definitely yes: "put it in the new "Homepage" field in the source stanza"
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Shall I wait for  your other before I rebuild
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Yes please.
<Fujitsu> I won't be more than another couple of minutes.
<warp10> Hi all!
<StevenHarperUK> warp10: hi
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Commented.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: ta
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: the TrueCrypt packaging : there fussy about re-distribution
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Hopefully in the future, I will get clearence to package and then make it a dependancy
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: OK, I see there are easily-installed binary packages there. It's probably OK.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: ok ta
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: I am on to them so I can get it into a proper package then I can make it a dependancy...
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Does their fussiness include a requirement to use a browser?  Can you grab something with wget or curl, and stuff it in the right place?
<Fujitsu> persia: It's a .deb... that sounds evil.
<StevenHarperUK> Like Fijitsu says its a deb
<persia> Fujitsu: Hrm.  True.
<StevenHarperUK> I wouldn't want to automate it
<StevenHarperUK> When I get the OK to package it will be better
<StevenHarperUK> but it is very simple
<StevenHarperUK> I have users using it from my PPA without complaint
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Also, there is a space before the python build-dependency.
<Fujitsu> Trivial, but it'd be nice to fix it.
<Adri2000> TheMuso: is it you who added the comment about audacious-plugins on DaD?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: done
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Thanks.
<tepsipakki> is the buildd backlog visible somewhere? Someone mentioned that it's ~1000 packages for i386
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds has everything, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/+builds has just i386.
<Fujitsu> You can use the filter there.
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: It was 3000 a couple of weeks ago, so it shouldn't be too long.
<tepsipakki> Fujitsu: oh, indeed :)
<persia> tepsipakki: You can also play with the i386 to check any arch...
<tepsipakki> people have complained about X dep-breakage on hardy, but until all drivers are (re-)built there's no point uploading xorg-metapackage
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: They've all built, as far as I know.
<tepsipakki> since the ABI's have changed
<Fujitsu> They still seem to be providing -1.0.
<tepsipakki> Fujitsu: well, I still see a bunch of video-drivers on MoM
<tepsipakki> they are supposed to be synced, so I'd like to be sure before complaining about it :)
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: I suspect they might have rebuilt before the new xserver-xorg did.
<persia> cyberix: I've added a comment to pq with my thoughts.  As discussed ~12 hours ago, the decision will likely be taken external to MOTU, but I shan't archive it again: the packaging looks rather clean now.
<tepsipakki> Fujitsu: aww
 * Fujitsu checks the logs.
<Fujitsu> Because they definitely still provide -1.0.
<Fujitsu> Which is wrong.
<tepsipakki> hmm, actually they shouldn't build
<tepsipakki> but only some video-drivers were synced
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Which?
<tepsipakki> I need to check
<tepsipakki> -mga for instance
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's -2.
<tepsipakki> so not built yet
<tepsipakki> ogh
<tepsipakki> *oh
<Fujitsu> -mga built, -intel, -ati haven't... /me checks others.
<tepsipakki> you meant the provides, not package revision (which is -3 :)
<Fujitsu> Oh, sorry.
<tepsipakki> intel and ati needs merging
<tepsipakki> but I uploaded intel since that's a candidate for gutsy SRU
 * Fujitsu is waiting on -intel
<Fujitsu> And I happened to be dealing with -ati earlier tonight, so that was the second one I checked.
<tepsipakki> I had 46 packages on the sync-list ;)
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: all Changes done & tested : uploading now.. I'll msg you again when its up
<tepsipakki> and maybe some of those weren't synced
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Thanks, I'll look shortly.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: You'd do better to advertise for general review for each new upload, rather than poking specific people (even though they may be willing)
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, I'm chasing a FTBFS on netcdf, which is under MOTU-Science attention. Can I proceed?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Its there with comment - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=543
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Yep, looking now.
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Of course. We (well, I) don't bite.
<Fujitsu> We try to take care of them, but that doesn't mean we have an exclusive lock.
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, of course not, but I don't want to steal something you may be interested in :)
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Bit busy with exams and stuff to chase much now.
<DktrKranz> ok. I'll publish a debdiff soon and subscribe u-u-s for sponsorship. thanks
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Looking good.
<persia> nand_: ike commented
<nand_> persia: thanks!
<persia> nand_: Looks like a bit of a copyright mess with upstream (unless I misunderstand)
<nand_> persia: I remember having discussed about it with upstream... /me will look at it
<persia> nand_: If you've been discussing it, and think you have a solution, it may be worth discussing.  I haven't looked at the copyright policy in a while, but my memory is that every file should have a note.
<nand_> persia: btw, here with my version of desktop-file-validate, it is validated. Can you tell me what your version tells?
<persia> nand_: "Encoding" is deprecated is the one I remember.  Which version of desktop-file-validate are you using?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: The package is now technically clean in my eyes, but some of the description is a bit iffy.
<nand_> persia: ok i give up :p What is the package providing desktop-file-validate
<persia> nand_: desktop-file-utils
 * nand_ notes that the man page of desktop-file is wrong
<persia> nand_: Please submit a patch: upstream is very responsive
<nand_> persia: version 0.13
<nand_> persia: on my todo list too.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: the description has to be user friendly - the guide http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-desc-basics  seems to match what I have done, do you have any suggestions to make it less iffy?
<persia> nand_: WIth desktop-file-utils 0.13-0ubuntu3, desktop-file-validate debian/ike.desktop gives me "ike.desktop: warning: key "Encoding" in group "Desktop Entry" is deprecated".  Are you not seeing the same?  This might be a larger bug.
<nand_> persia: this is my exact version.
 * nand_ checks again
<nand_> persia: No i'm definitely using the same version, and I don't have any output. Any command line parameters?
<persia> nand_: none.  Which architecure are you using?
<nand_> i386
 * persia seeks a volunteer with a gutsy/i386 system to run desktop-file-validate against http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ike-0711051330/ike-2.0.2/debian/ike.desktop
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: if its technically clean can you comment on it please
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: See PM.
<nand_> persia: you suspect a architecture bug?
<Fujitsu> persia: I'll do so (on hardy, but the package hasn't changed AFAIK)
<nand_> persia: may I send you in pm the comment of upstream concerning copyright
<persia> nand_: I'm amd64.  Sometimes behaviour is different, so it's a handy thing to check.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks, and no, it's the same version.
<Fujitsu> I get the Encoding warning, as I have for months.
<persia> nand_: Sure.
<nand_> but then why did I not get this warning?
<persia> nand_: It's just you then.  You may want to reinstall desktop-file-utils to see if that helps.
<nand_> persia: I'll give it a try.
<persia> wallyweek: shorten commented
 * Fujitsu ponders attacking REVU to comment via POST.
<nand_> persia: oops. I think I have forgotten to register.
<persia> nand_: register?
<nand_> persia: log in with nickserv.
<nand_> persia: anonymous pm are forbidden
<persia> nand_: Ah.  That makes it hard to message me.  How about a pastebin?
<persia> !pastebin | nand_
<ubotu> nand_: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<nand_> persia: ok :)
<persia> nand_: If upstream is reviewing the code to add the copyright headers, that's a good thing.  We won't be able to upload to the archive until it's done, but the rest of the package is almost there.  If upstream is actually quick about it, I suspect ike will get in next time (especially if you keep fixing all the packaging stuffin the meantime)
<nand_> persia: Ok i'll forward that. In fact I think upstream has forgotten about that...
<persia> nand_: Just keep bugging them.  Because this will be an LTS, you've a decent size stick (it'll be two or three years before your app can get on Ubuntu servers if you don't do it soon)
<nand_> persia: right :)
<nand_> persia: Btw when is the next revu freeze?
<nand_> (upstream may want to get a later revision in)
<persia> nand_: Not entirely decided, but likely February, although it'd be ideal to get it in by December 14th for best testing.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Around? Can you fix sparky's time up?
 * persia is amused by "The program 'les' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install atm-tools"
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: time up?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It is saying it's 31 past the hour.
<Fujitsu> Which I doubt.
<Hobbsee> ...interesting
 * white waves
<Fujitsu> Hi white.
<white> do you know that feeling, when you should study for an exam (which is in two days), but you just can't?
<white> but after wednesday holidays start :)
<Fujitsu> white: Oh, I do. I have one in two days, and am not studying :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: there we are :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Might be nice to install ntp on there, but that is probably best discussed with siretart.
<siretart> Fujitsu: sorry?
<Fujitsu> siretart: sparky's time drifts.
<siretart> damn
<Fujitsu> It was 25 minutes out just now.
<siretart> Fujitsu: I won't get to it today, please check with sistpoty or Hobbsee, they both have root
<Fujitsu> I was wondering why uploads weren't appearing at */10.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Install ntp kthxbye.
<siretart> Mon Nov  5 14:00:41 CET 2007
<siretart> hmmm. time seems okay right now
<Fujitsu> siretart: I just got Hobbsee to fix the time manually.
<siretart> ok. thanks!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ntp installed, kthxbye.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> siretart: it appears to think that ntp.ubuntu.com is not a valid server, or something.
<siretart> Hobbsee: please use 'faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de' as ntp server
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: all i did was use the ntpserver of the uni that it's in
<siretart> if that doesn't work, try faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's ntpdate, not ntp.
<Hobbsee> siretart: hm, i used something close to that
<Hobbsee> oh, piont, i thought one was from teh other
<siretart> it might be very well possible that some ports are firewalled
<Fujitsu> ntpdate runs once, doesn't keep things synced.
<persia> wallyweek: btpd commented
<Fujitsu> Educational institutions seem to have a habit of blocking NTP outbound.
<persia> Would anyone with a powerpc be willing to run a test build of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sdlmame ?  It's requested in the comments, but I'm not sure how widely that is seen.
<white> Fujitsu: lecturers are never on time, so they do not want the students to look at the time of the clients and then appear for the lectures on time
<Fujitsu> white: Good theory.
<white> i could make a statistic of my favourite lecturer, she always is at least ten minutes late :)
 * Fujitsu wonders if mangling the times of a couple of REVU uploads to make them actually appear in chronological order is plausible.
 * persia wonders why chronology is important for REVU
<Fujitsu> persia: Observe http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=545
<Fujitsu> That is the latest upload.
<Fujitsu> Yet two appear after it, as sparky was behind.
<nand_> any hint on an automatic way to retrive a upload from revu and automaticaly set it up (dget only download) ? (just lazy)
<azeem> nand_: dget -x
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Then, I'd say it's worth it for anything uploaded in the last two hours.
<nand_> azeem: thanks!
<azeem> ... if that is what you mean by "set it up"
<nand_> persia: desktop-file package reinstalled, still nothing. BUT if I download if with wget, then I got your warning.
<nand_> weird...
<persia> nand_: Download which with wget?
<nand_> persia: sorry. "If I download my uploaded source package with dget"
<nand_> it looks like it's on REVU side.
 * nand_ checks the md5
<persia> nand_: Ah, so it's clean locally, but the REVU version is ugly?  That's frustrating.  You'll want to make sure it's really clean for your next upload (I'd wait a couple hours due to the REVU time change).
<nand_> persia: oh wait.
<StevenHarperUK> Looking for an Advocation for Easy Crypt : I already have 1 advocation : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=545 - please note its the 14:00 upload, the time chnage on REVU has put them out of order
<nand_> persia: Sorry for the waste of time. That's the problem when working simultaneously on two machines... :/ I'm on feisty for the build, I have checked on the gutsy one :/
<persia> nand_: That explains it.  Encoding didn't become deprecated until gutsy
<persia> StevenHarperUK: There's still no upstream changelog: is uncorrectible?
<persia> ^this
<norsetto> happy revu day everybody
<proppy> hi norsetto
<zul> morning
<norsetto> proppy: salut, how is it with juce?
<norsetto> hi zul
<zul> hi norsetto
<wallyweek> persia: thanks! :)
<nand_> what would one recommand instead of mv to rename a file on the rule file considering that dh_install doesn't rename?
<nand_> *what would one recommand to use to rename a file in the rule file (more clear)
<persia> nand_: install -m 644 (or whatever) works, but it's not the prettiest solution
<nand_> persia: ok thanks.
<proppy> norsetto: studying debhelper while @home
<norsetto> proppy: dh_gconf ?
<proppy> norsetto: it's not really my mother tongue, but It's interesting to learn :)
<proppy> norsetto: I'm sure I will enjoy reading debian/rules of package after that
<norsetto> proppy: don't tell me that japanese its easier ....
<Hobbsee> hiya jono
<proppy> norsetto: Actually yes, since I don't have a dhelper native gf :)
<white> norsetto: got my mail about dh_icons?
<white> norsetto: please keep discussing it with Peter on the cdbs bug to get a solution there :)
<norsetto> white: which bug number?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: ffs. keep the server online will ya ;-)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Getting there, getting there.
<Nafallo> :-)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: The ChangeLog is in there
<white> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=432851
<ubotu> Debian bug 432851 in cdbs "cdbs: Please add support for dh_icons" [Wishlist,Open]
<persia> StevenHarperUK: why can't linda find it: i7ll dig some more
<jono> heya Hobbsee
<StevenHarperUK> persia: it gets installed to : usr/share/easycrypt/ChangeLog
<StevenHarperUK> persia: if you check it in the included files when you double click the DEB
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Eek, I missed that, sorry. It should be in /usr/share/doc
<Fujitsu> /usr/share/doc/easycrypt, that is.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: sorry what do  you mean - its correct or not?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: I missed that you'd done it wrong.
<Fujitsu> The changelog needs to be in /usr/share/doc/easycrypt.
<norsetto> white: actually I sympatise with Peter, dh_icons should not be called by default by cdbs
<StevenHarperUK> Do I manually stick it there using easycrypt.install?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: ^^^
<Fujitsu> dh_installchangelogs should do it, I think.
<Fujitsu> Or whatever it is.
<Fujitsu> I haven't made a new package in quite a while.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: That is right , does it go in this section (binary-install/easycrypt::)
<white> norsetto: well then i have to tag my bug wontfix
<norsetto> white: as you wish, we have dh_icons in any case in Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: CDBS stuff isn't one of my strong points.
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Isn't that done by gnome.mk?
<white> well calling dh_icons (and later on whatever is used for other desktops) would have the same effect, than calling it from cdbs
<white> Fujitsu: qt packages do not use gnome.mk
<norsetto> Fujitsu: indeed, also by kde.mk and xfce.mk
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Right.
<white> Fujitsu: my point would be to use it in debhelper.mk
<white> although i agree with peter that dh_icons needs to be adjusted
 * persia would like to see dh_desktop called whenever there is a .desktop in /usr/share/applications now that the MIME issue is fixedf
<white> persia: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439717
<ubotu> Debian bug 439717 in cdbs "cdbs: run dh_desktop if there's a debian/package.desktop file" [Normal,Open]
<persia> white: Thanks :)
<norsetto> white: the point is that calling it by default would mean calling it also when its not needed
<norsetto> white: not many packages have a need to register their icons, so I think its fair to leave it to the packager
<white> well if there is no icon installed, then imho dh_icons should detect that and not add anything
 * persia ponders submitting patches to debhelper to actually have a chance of closing that bug
<StevenHarperUK> Can anyone help: I have placed 	dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog     in my rules, but its not placing the ChangeLog file into /usr/share/doc/easycrypt/
<white> persia: fixing it in debhelper and cdbs would imho be the right approach and bring the most benefit to all the packages
<white> and less effort for future releases
<persia> white: I think debhelper has to go first.  dh_icons needs to use a find test, and dh_desktop should actually install them
<white> yes
<white> and dh_desktop could document what the call actually does :)
<persia> white: Well, it calls update-desktop-database iff there is a MIME type defined in the desktop file in the postinst.  Most of the time it's a nop currently.
 * persia puts dh_desktop firmly in the TODO list, albeit not very close to the top
<StevenHarperUK> This is in the Build output
<StevenHarperUK> dh_installchangelogs -peasycrypt  ./ChangeLog
<StevenHarperUK> no errors after it
<StevenHarperUK> This in the Included files : usr/share/doc/easycrypt/changelog.Debian.gz
<StevenHarperUK> is that right?
<StevenHarperUK> in the deb
<Fujitsu> changelog.Debian.gz is debian/changelog, so no.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: You want /usr/share/doc/easycrypt/changelog.gz
<StevenHarperUK> thats there too
<StevenHarperUK> Both are there
<persia> StevenHarperUK: If that's there then your dh_changelogs call is working.  Is linda happy on your binary now?
<StevenHarperUK> ill check now
<StevenHarperUK> Yes it passes ill re-upload now
<persia> StevenHarperUK: That's a neat idea: sticking releases into the svn trunk :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Thanks
<StevenHarperUK> persia: its my own Idea we use SVN @ work
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I've stuck a comment on the 14:00 upload, but I don't know enough about python packaging to be sure it's correct.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have had python packager look at it before, they were happy
<Fujitsu> persia: It looks fine to me, and I've dealt with a fair bit of Python stuff.
<persia> Fujitsu: Most things seem to use site-packages, and the wrapper changing directories seems odd to me, but I just don't know enough to know if these are problems or not.
<Fujitsu> persia: The modules are private, so it should be OK.
 * Fujitsu checks the policy.
<Fujitsu> They're private, so /usr/share/easycrypt is OK.
<persia> wallyweek: I've added a comment to sdlmame also: skipping most of what was discussed earlier, but just for a record of review, and incuding some of the automated test output.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Its re-uplaoded now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=546
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: can you re-check it pls : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=546
<persia> StevenHarperUK: advocated
<persia> StevenHarperUK: too bad you didn't wait another 10 minutes :)
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Looking.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Thanks
<persia> Are there any uploaders currently waiting for a review?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK, persia: easycrypt advocated.
<StevenHarperUK> Woohooo : big thanks to all you very helpful MOTU's
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Be warned, NEW is fairly slow for the next few weeks, you may not hear back from an archive admin for a while.
<Fujitsu> persia: Do you want to upload it, or shall I?
<persia> (being as much as a month)
 * Hobbsee can promise a quick turn around :P
<persia> Fujitsu: either's good.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Haha.
 * Fujitsu uploads, then sleeps.
<StevenHarperUK> No problem, I can wait: users are using my PPA atm
<persia> Hobbsee: You're going to review the license?
<Hobbsee> persia: nope.  but i can be damn quick with the "reject" button.
<persia> heh
<wallyweek> persia: thanks once again! :)
<persia> wallyweek: Do you have any more, or did they all get commented?
<Hobbsee> persia: just go thru them all on REVU :)
<persia> Hobbsee: I've hit quite a few, but I give preference for people who actually show up to REVU day (and really ought to be working on my linda patch anyway)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Uploaded and archived.
 * Fujitsu now heads to bed.
<persia> good night Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Night persia.
<Hobbsee> persia: you know, i'm thinking that we really should be like debian in making people putting in new packages commit to maintainingthem.
<Hobbsee> as in, others permitted to hijack, but they needed ot make sure it's up to date
<zul> persia: so they can rot in universe?
<persia> Hobbsee: I really don't think we should be like that.  I do think that we should require every new package to have a watch file, and have something check the watch files, and add that to the merge list for each release.
<persia> zul: ENOCONTEXT
<Hobbsee> persia: that's another way.  the advantage of debian is that they actually care about the package that they're uploading, at least somewhat, so are somewhat motivated to update it.
<knights> Sir sir! I'm stuck! :)
<Hobbsee> oh noes!
 * Hobbsee pulls knights out of his hole
<persia> Hobbsee: The main blocker to getting rid of wxwindows2.4 is three Debian maintainers who don't fit that criterion
<Hobbsee> persia: was meaning generally, not that in particular
<Hobbsee> but yes
<persia> (well, actually there are a couple more, but we've been able to work around them)
<knights> The app I'm trying to package has a few .sh scripts and lintian doesn't like this. How do I get rid of the extensions? I tried messing with the Makefile but obviously didn't mess with the right thing. I suspect these .in files have something to do with it?
<zul> persia: if new packages have no maintainer then they will rot
<persia> Hobbsee: The thing is that there is a promise to maintain, but that doesn't translate into maintenance.  I firmly believe in teams: as long as we have the systems to make sure they are up to date, getting new people to pull new upstreams for random leaves seems safer to be than getting new people to process merges.
<knights> Hobbsee, : Thanks! but it wasn't 'hole' stuck. It was school kid, homework type stuck :)
<persia> zul: I think that assumes a level of apathy I don't think that all MOTUs exhibit.
<Hobbsee> persia: true, but the team doesnt tend to care, and cant track it anyway :)
<Hobbsee> but yes, being able to train it might persuade some people
<persia> knights: Ask a question, and you'll get an answer.  Make a comment, and someone will comment.
<huats_> Hello all
<huats_> Hello norsetto  persia Hobbsee  and everyone else
<huats_> :-)
<knights> persia: not complaining, just one of the limitations of text comms init?
<persia> Hobbsee: We should have the latter solved in hardy, and the former just requires encouragement, support, and for all the bitter people to stop whining :)
<persia> hey huats
<knights> easy to get the wrong idea
<persia> knights: yep :)
<knights> persia: any idea how i'd go about changing these 3 .sh files to extensionless files
<knights> What files will I need to modify?
<persia> knights: Umm.  In what context?
<knights> I think they're generated from .in files, does that sound right?
<persia> knights: It's certainly possible: I need more context.
<knights> persia: No, I was wrong, the 3 .sh files are included in the original source tar
<knights> persia: Any chance I could pastebin the Makefile for you to look at?
<knights> I think thats what you'd need to see?
<persia> knights: OK.  So you're packaging this software, and upstream includes some random shell snippets and you want to strip the extensions and stuff them in /usr/bin?
<knights> yes
<persia> knights: install -m 755 source target usually does a nice job.  Not so pretty, but it works.  You could also rename them in the source directory, and then install them with dh_install.
<knights> I'm wondering if I'll need to edit moe than just the makefile
<persia> knights: You can just edit debian/rules.
<knights> 'install -m 755 source target' where?
<persia> knights: in the install rule
<knights> install rule is a file where? (sorry, this is my first package)
<persia> knights: Ah.  It being your first package is important context: it sets the verbose flag :)
<persia> knights: Essentially, dh_install cannot change file names when installing files.  As most packages use either CDBS or debhelper, and therefore relay on dh_install to do the work, this makes it tricky when files need to be renamed.
<knights> Oh right the 'install' section with devian/rules is what you mean!
<knights> within debian/rules
<persia> There are three options available to address this, as follows: 1) If you are already patching the upstream Makefile (and you should only do this if you really must), you can change the name in the upstream Makefile install rule.
<persia> 2) Otherwise, you want to use the "install" command to manually install the files in the install rule in debian/rules
<knights> option 2 please persia! :)
<persia> 3) Some people get extra fancy and write make tricks to rename the files in the debian/rules build rule, and then use dh_install to install them.  This should only be attempted if you have a strong understanding of make
<persia> knights: Does that provide enough info, or do you need more
<knights> Ohh no! No fancy tricks for me yet!
<knights> persia: I''m justabout to see if I can do option 2 now
<knights> This package I'm doing was already mostly packaged for DEbian, it just needed to be cleaned up and a few things added/ changed
<knights> In the rules install section it already has this line
<knights> install: DH_OPTIONS=
<knights> This is the line I'm editing then?
<persia> knights: pastebin your rules, and I'll tell you: I'm not sure from that
<knights> In fact its got 2 install sections, which seems odd
<knights> ok
<knights> http://pastebin.ca/762252
<persia> knights: Yeah.  lines 42 and 43 look very suspicious to me.  I'd suggest you review the make manual to make sure that's legal (I think it's not).  I'd add the install calls after line 51
<knights> Thanks persia!
<knights> let me try..
<Hobbsee> morning mdomsch
<h4x0r7h11> Hobbsee:  wanna play hearts?  :>
<Hobbsee> h4x0r7h11: why?
<h4x0r7h11> heh
 * h4x0r7h11 shrugs.  Was browsing the PPA earlier.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> h4x0r7h11: it should actually work now, too
<h4x0r7h11> Hobbsee:  cool
<bddebian> Heya gang
<h4x0r7h11> See, ya don't have to be stalking someone to find out things about them.  ;D
 * Hobbsee is not someone
 * Hobbsee is a green alien.
<h4x0r7h11> Some girl I know thought it was really cool that I knew like ... half her entire life a week after meeting her, without talking to her much o_o
<knights> persia: OK, so if I have a file script.sh in the base of my apps source dir (ie one level up from the debian dir) that want to go to /usr/bin/script I'd add a command like this to that section of rules:
<knights> dh_install -Xscript.sh /usr/bin/script
<knights> ?
<persia> knights: No.  dh_install can't rename things.  You need to use the "install" command.  It's a little confusing to put the install command in the install rule to install things, but `man install` will help.
<bddebian> You can rename in the .install file with dh_install can't you?
<persia> bddebian: If you can, it's new
 * persia looks
<bddebian> Hmm
<mdomsch> greetings Hobbsee
<persia> bddebian: I don't feel up to digging through the perl right now, but the man page says you can't
<knights> Doesn't look like I'd need any fancy option so would
<Hobbsee> h4x0r7h11: that's creepy
<knights> install script.sh /usr/bin/script
<knights> do the trick dya tink?
<knights> suppose I'll just have to try it eh
<zul> hey mdomsch
<persia> knights: I prefer `install -m 755 script $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/script`, but basically
<jdong> tepsipakki: no problem :) Just want to see it working again after several people were whining about it :)
<knights> Ah yes! Thanks persia!
<persia> jdong: I hijacked your hardy gtkpod-aac for no dpatch comment.  Please fix it for gutsy while waiting for the buildds
<jdong> persia: ah, good point, didn't realize dpatches had comments :)
<bddebian> persia: I believe you for some reason I was just thinking you could
<persia> bddebian: Yep.  I've spent hours on that issue more than once :)
<persia> jdong: Did you read your dpatch?
<cyberix> persia: When is the meeting going to be? I'm referring my points and I'll add that as a comment too.
<jdong> persia: <sheepishly>only the payload...</sheepishly>
<persia> cyberix: No idea, I don't even know if one is scheduled.  I was just reviewing all the REVU requests from the backlog, and didn't want to archive yours again as you'd put it back up, but did want to say I didn't think it belonged in Ubuntu.
<cyberix> persia: Yep. I think it is good to be visible as it has raised lots of discussion
<cyberix> persia: I still don't think you're completely wrong.
<persia> jdong: The payload is the important part :)
<cyberix> I just think the policies are lacking a process for such packages.
<persia> cyberix: One thing I don't really understand is why wine-doors is the wrong place.  They seem to have a lot of the same wrapper stuff you created.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<tepsipakki> jdong: I haven't used it myself for quite some time since I reripped my albums and transcoded as mp3's. Banshee is good enough for me now (and what I hear, will be even better soon) :)
<bddebian> Heya geser
<persia> tepsipakki: My apologies: I didn't notice until uploading that you were the maintainer.  I hope you don't mind the patch.
<tepsipakki> persia: of course not
<tepsipakki> is it possible to "orphan" a package?-)
 * persia is still ashamed for not checking on a claimed package
<persia> tepsipakki: Yep.  Just upload with Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<jdong> tepsipakki: ah, ok, my primary usecase for gtkpod-aac is transferring videos onto my iPod, for which I don't have a choice of which container to use :)
<tepsipakki> persia: ok, I can do that later :)
<jdong> persia: gutsy debdiff revised and reattached :)
<persia> jdong: OK.  Despite the positive gutsy report, since I don't have equipment to verify, I'd like to wait for a hardy success report before pushing gutsy-proposed.  Perhaps you can draft someone?
<knights> persia: I had no luck with adding the install command:
<knights> install: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd': Permission denied
<persia> knights: No?  What happened?
<persia> knights: is $(DESTDIR) defined?
<jdong> persia: once it builds I'll give it a shot -- gtkpod is quite simple to test even from a pbuilder chroot :)
<wallyweek> persia 15:39: sorry, I had to go out and collect my daughter from school :)
<knights> install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd
<persia> knights: You're not allowed to install to the build system.  You need to install to the temporary directory for the package.
<wallyweek> persia: I have one more: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sdlmame-cheat
<wallyweek> I updated btpd
<wallyweek> now I'm working on shorten
<persia> wallyweek: Unfortunately it's now late enough here that I don't trust myself to do a good job on either of those :(
<persia> wallyweek: Perhaps you could find another reviewer (doesn't need to be MOTU, just needs to know packaging, and share comments)?
<wallyweek> no problem. You've been of *great* help... thank you very much for your efforts! :)
<knights> persia: So do you think removing DESTDIR will solve this?
<knights> I'm probably don't have that defined
<wallyweek> persia: sure! hope to hear you again next time! :)
<persia> knights: "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd" is trying to install to "/usr/bin/".  If you got that when using $(DESTDIR) than $(DESTDIR) isn't defined in your makefile.
<persia> wallyweek: You can get a lot of my comments from running linda and lintian on your binary packages :)
<knights> OK, I'll try it again with no DESTDIR
<persia> knights: How will that help?
<jdong> knights: does your makefile respect DESTDIR?
 * knights confused
<jdong> keescook: try make DESTDIR=/tmp install
<jdong> err wrong person
<jdong> (I think that's the order, maybe DESTDIR= goes at the end)
<jdong> if install isn't trying to put things in /tmp, then you have a makefile that ignores DESTDIR :)
<persia> jdong: How will that help?
<jdong> persia: oh is he already trying a prefix and it's ignoring it?
<persia> jdong: We're trying to rename some files while installing them during a package build.
<jdong> persia: ah, ok
<persia> knights: OK.  Do you understand about make variables.
<knights> persia: My makeflile has lots of DESTDIRs in it
<knights> I know what an env var is
<persia> knights: Which makefile, ./Makefile or ./debian/rules ?
<knights> ./Makefile
<persia> knights: make variables aren't quite environment variables
<persia> knights: I thought we decided not to modify ./Makefile, and were adjusting debian/rules.
<knights> Sorry- misunderstood your question
<persia> which question?
<knights> I've not made any mods to upstream Makefile
<knights> I thought you were asking if thatr Makefile comntained DESTDIRs
<knights> sorry about typos
<persia> Right.  So, you've a line like "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd" in debian rules?
<knights> I added the install commands to rules
<knights> yes, 3 lines like that for the 3 .sh files
<persia> OK.  And you get "install: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd': Permission denied" as an error message?
<persia> And the build log shows "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd"?
<knights> yes
<knights> build log?
<persia> The output of your build process
<knights> /usr/bin/install -c -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin
<wallyweek> persia: just one short question, please... :p  comment about hyphens in manpages means I should escape them with a slash, right?
<knights> is the build log output
<persia> wallyweek: Well, it depends on whether you mean hyphen or minus.  \- is minus and \(hy is hyphen.
<persia> knights: From where did you get that line?
<wallyweek> persia: unfortunately they are the same on my keyboard :(
<knights> I presume the 'build log' is whats dumped to the terminal as output from debuild, no?
<wallyweek> options are preceded by minus sign IIRC
<persia> wallyweek: That's true for everyone's keyboard, which is why we write '\-' and '\(hy' in manpages instead of '-'
<persia> knights: Yes, the debuild output may be considered a build log (it also dumps it all in a file in the parent directory for later reference).
<wallyweek> persia: ok, I'll sort it out with a good translation tool... thanks :)
<wallyweek> I mean a dictionary, of course...
<knights> Well, build log says its trying to put it in /home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin and we just wanted /usr/bin
<persia> knights: If your buildlog is reporting "/usr/bin/install -c -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin" then I don't understand why you see "install: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd': Permission denied".  It should be installing to "/home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin/"
<persia> wallyweek: If you run lintian on your binary package, it should tell you which manpages to read
<knights> If I remove these install commands it builds fine as a non-root user
<knights> but lintian complains about the .sh files of course
<somerville32> knights, Maybe you should try pbuilder?
<persia> knights: No, we don't want /usr/bin: we want /home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin, so that the package can be made from home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp and install it on the target system /usr/bin
<persia> somerville32: That won't help in this case, although it's a good general suggestion.
<knights> ok persia
<persia> knights: So, if you have the install commands, and stick it in $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/bin, does install complain about a permission error?
<knights> CUDIR? typo?
<knights> CURDIR, even :)
<knights> DESTDIR?
 * persia wonders if bytes are being dropped somewhere
<persia> $(CURDIR)
<persia> Err,  Rather $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/bin, which is $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin
<knights> Sorry persia, I don't understand 'if you have the install commands, and stick it in'
<knights> You want me to copy /usr/bin/install to there?
<persia> knights: Sorry: I'm tired.  If you add the install commands to debian/rules, and install the script.sh files to /home/..../tmp/usr/bin/script, do you get an error?
<persia> Could someone who knows python better than I please tell me what kind of data structure http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43416/ is building, and whether I can add a third level?
<knights> persia: http://pastebin.ca/762317
<knights> Thats the tail of my build log
<persia> knights: Right.  it reports "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd".  We want it to report "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd".  Now, let's look at your rules file.
<knights> ok
<knights> http://pastebin.ca/762320
<persia> knights: Right.  Now we had hoped that $(DESTDIR) would expand to "/home/knights/src/xdtv_2.4.1cvs3/debian/tmp", but it doesn't seem to be doing that.
<persia> knights: Does that make sense as to why you would encounter that error?
<knights> What is it expanding to?
<knights> The wrong thing obviously
<persia> knights: Let's look at the input and output again.  In debian/rules we have "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd", and in the build output we have "install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh /usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd".  What is $(DESTDIR)
<persia> ?
<knights> DESTDIR isn't defined
<persia> knights: Exactly.
<knights> :()
<knights> OK- thanks. I'll get rid and see how it goes
<persia> knights: How does removing it help?
<knights> So I need to define destdir in rules?
<persia> knights: Or maybe there is another variable you can use
<knights> Do I replace my install DESTDIR with CURDIR?
<knights> DESTDIRs
<persia> knights: What is $(CURDIR)?
<knights> You got me!
<persia> knights: OK.  http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch04s02.html isn't an ideal document, but it can help to answer that question.
<jeromeg> ScottK: hello
<knights> So CURDIR is kinda equivalent to .
<somerville32> What is the command to restart package installation when it has been interrupted?
<knights> its the build dirs .
<persia> knights: Right.
<knights> cool :)
<persia> So, we need to put the right things in the install calls.  There are two choices, either to define DESTDIR or to use CURDIR in the calls directly
 * persia grumbles about formalisation of data structures in python making recursion annoying
<knights> persia: but what gets me is that my rules file already said
<knights> $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<knights> is that line incorrect?
<persia> knights: That's a use/mention distinction.  In "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp", you are calling the program whose name is stored in the MAKE variable with two arguments, "install" and "DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp", after expanding $(CURDIR) to the value of CURDIR.
<persia> This second argument sets DESTDIR for the target makefile (./Makefile), in which $(DESTDIR) may then be used freely.
<persia> This has nothing to do with the value of DESTDIR in debian/rules
<persia> Compare with a shell script: if your shell script includes the line "aptitude install apt=0.31" this doesn't set the value of $apt to "0.31"
<knights> ok I kinda get that
<persia> knights: I'll suggest that http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html is worth reading, but I suspect you're very close to a solution for your current problem.
<knights> I'd like to think so!
 * persia loses to the inconvenience of python data structures and files a bug without a patch
<knights> I can see that if I'm to get into packaging or programming reading that would be a must
<persia> Grr...  There's already been a bug for 3 months.
<joejaxx> persia: bug number?
<persia> joejaxx: debian bug #434989
<ubotu> Debian bug 434989 in linda "linda: please adopt new menu policy" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/434989
 * joejaxx looks
<persia> joejaxx: The data is stored as tuples in a dictionary, which is fine when there are two levels.  The new model allows one, two, or three levels, depending on context, and I'm having difficulty handling mixed tuples and dictionaries, which is probably due to my poor understanding of python data structures.
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> its written in python lol
<persia> joejaxx: Any suggestions?
<knights> Hey Joe!
 * joejaxx does not take a look
<joejaxx> persia: i do not know python
<joejaxx> knights: hi
<knights> Seems to be a fair bit of buzz over fluxbuntu
<persia> joejaxx: Ah.  Too bad.  Thanks anyway.
<joejaxx> persia: you are most welcome
<knights> Even though its not out yet :)
<joejaxx> knights: maybe :)
<joejaxx> yeah i do not know what that is about :P
<knights> joejaxx: The RC booted fine for you then?
<joejaxx> knights: of course lol
<joejaxx> we had practically the entire channel test it before release
<joejaxx> i need to look at isolinux
<knights> good
<knights> dunno why my machines didn't like it then - I checked the MD5 and burned it twice so...
<knights> persia: Only thing I can think of now is doing a
<knights> install -m 755 xdtv_makedvd.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/bin/xdtv_makedvd
<knights> in the install but that'd only be good for building if anything right?
<knights> Is it that I'm missing a -c option?
<persia> knights: Isn't it that you want to build the package?  So something that works for building would be ideal, no?
<knights> I suppose you're right :)
<persia> knights: Also, `man install`: -c is ignored :)
 * persia sleeps
<knights> Well, really I want to shut up lintian - the package build np
<joejaxx> Good Night persia :)
<bddebian> Gnight persia
<knights> Night persia!
<somerville32> Night persia
<knights> Thanks for the help persia!
<Adri2000> is anyone working on updating wxwidgets2.8 to 2.8.6?
<joejaxx> for merge bug reports, for the changelog that is shown, should that be the debian changelog or the one with the ubuntu modification on it as well
<joejaxx> ?
<somerville32> I'm pretty sure both, joejaxx
<joejaxx> wth lol
<joejaxx> i just got a timeout error on lp
<joejaxx> wth? :\
<joejaxx> it keeps happening
<somerville32> You don't use lp too often than :P
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: can you give me the link for the page you get timeout?
<joejaxx> its the file a bug package for ubuntu :P
<gnomefreak> ok
<somerville32> joejaxx, Let the people in launchpad know the OOPs number
<nxvl> doko: ping
<joejaxx> nxvl: you probably want to leave a message with that ping :)
<doko> nxvl: just ask
<gnomefreak> my homepage works
<nxvl> doko: i'm having a problem building freemind (LP Bug #126537)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126537 in freemind "FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126537
<nxvl> and as far as i have seen it seems to be that the ncurses dialog from j2re1.4 it's now showed
<nxvl> is there anyway to make it accept the license or show the dialog for building it?
<doko> no, not on the buildds. did you try to build it with icedtea?
<nxvl> joejaxx: first is a good practice to see if he's there :D
<nxvl> nop, trying...
<gnomefreak> doko: i meant to ask you, why does icetea not lable itself in firefox as 1.7 well it might but also lables parts of java 1.4, i dont have GUI atm so i cant look but i did set up icedtea in alternatives
<doko> gnomefreak: EPARSEERROR
<gnomefreak> icedtea is version 1.7 right?
<doko> pre 1.7
<knights> I have a prob with a package that has a few .sh files- I need to drop the .sh extension and so persia recommended I use the install command in my rules file to copy them- I can do that but this doesn't prevent the Makefile copying the .sh files over too. Persia recommended I try to avoid modifying the Makefile though and that I coukd do this through rules with install
<jdong> are you allowed to unionfs a mountpoint on top of itself?
<jdong> or do you have to specify a different path?
<gnomefreak> doko: the long list in firefox for java maybe 20 items, most say version 1.4 even after setting icedtea in update-alternatives
<gnomefreak> doko: once hardy is fixed if its still like that i will file a bug on it
<knights> surely I've just got to adjust the makefile? Or can I delete files using rules and rm or something?
<knights> icedtea- arrgh! People should know better than to name packages after food, drink etc. I really want some Iced tea now! :)
<jdong> 77[A[B[A[A[B[D[A
<joejaxx> jdong: lol ?
<joejaxx> bug #44806
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 44806 in gwave "No .desktop file" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44806
<joejaxx> ok nice
<jdong> joejaxx: silly control characters :)
<joejaxx> if you have a desktop file in debian/ dh_desktop should automatically pull that right? no need for install ?
<doko> gnomefreak: it says it's handles 1.4 as well. what's wrong with it?
<gnomefreak> nothing i expected to see only 1.7 or atleast most of it since sun-java6-plugin adds 1.6 to most of the list if not all
<gnomefreak> good afternoon bryce_
<bryce_> hi gnomefreak
<cyberix> persia: REVU-system said segfault ;-)
<cyberix> persia: Too much stuff exception
<cyberix> persia: http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/blog/#packagingprogressquestforubuntu
<cyberix> There is my writing about case pq.
<somerville32> Is persia core-dev?
<nxvl> keescook: i have found the same as you, it must be a pida bug
<keescook> nxvl: cool; glad we tracked that down.
<pwnguin> bad things to do before a diff: dos2unix *.c
<ajmitch> I'm sure diff can ignore that
<somerville32> unix2dos *.c ? <g>
<zul> pwnguin: why not something like diff -Naur --exclude="*.C"
<pwnguin> what would that do?
<pwnguin> the whole point is to patch C files
<pwnguin> fortunately theres unix2dos
<pwnguin> 4MB diff down to 24kb
<joejaxx> persia: what was the other merge that you want me to do?
<joejaxx> persia: nevermind it was ecasound
<wallyweek> good evening all!
<wallyweek> I need agent Moulder...  why pointing firefox to http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/sdlmame0120u1.zip it downloads the package,
<wallyweek> while wget http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/sdlmame0120u1.zip doesn't work?! :(
<imbrandon> because that is not actualy a zip file, its a html file with a javascript function to download the real zip, but more to the point this is not a suport channel
<wallyweek> imbrandon: thanks :)   I asked here because comment on my package asked to implement the get-orig-source
<wallyweek> I never saw something like that!
<imbrandon> actualy it looks like some strange 302 redirect to google.com
<imbrandon> weird hosting
<imbrandon> http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frbelmont.mameworld.info%2Fsdlmame0120u1.zip&submit=Submit&http=1.1&gzip=yes&type=GET&ua=Mozilla%2F5.0+%28X11%3B+U%3B+Linux+i686%3B+en%3B+rv%3A1.8.1.8%29+Gecko%2F20071022+Epiphany%2F2.20+Firefox%2F2.0.0.8+Web-Sniffer%2F1.0.24
<wallyweek> imbrandon: I must admit I'm not so skilled with the web... :(
<knights> I'm getting this error `W: xdtv: setuid-binary usr/bin/xdtv_v4l-conf 4755 root/root` from my new deb off lintian as my prog contains a v4l config tool which needs root. How do I flag for this?
<imbrandon> np , honestly i would ask whom ever is the host for that file to put it elsewhere
<knights> or shall I just wap a chmod in my rules install?
<wallyweek> imbrandon: they have no interest in the site itself, it's barely a snapshot distribution page
<wallyweek> I asked for an archive of older source to download from, and I've been told that files remain in the same place
<wallyweek> but with no direct link to them
<wallyweek> I understand their view: the devel cycle is really fast (a snapshot a week) and site is not their main target
<mok0> Any cdbs wizards around?
<TheMuso> mok0: I wouldn't call myself a wizard, but whats your problem?
<TheMuso> I'll see if I can help.
<mok0> I need to install a program suid to root, but the cdbs rules change it to 755
<mok0> I've tried to make a rule binary/foo:: but it doesnt solve the problem
<TheMuso> mok0: I think what is happening, is that dh_fixperms gets called and fixes that up. I kinow dh_fixperms can be given a list of exludes, but I don't know how that translates to cdbs variables, without having a look myself.
 * joejaxx wishes he did not have to know about cdbs to become a motu :\
<mok0> TheMuso: I figured it was dh_fixperms doing it, but I have not seen that you can tell it to do things
 * mok0 thinks cdbs is an aquirede taste...
<TheMuso> mok0: Yeah in the manpage for dh_fixperms it explains what you can do, but as I said, I don't know how that translates to cdbs.
<mok0> hmm, I now find a target binary-predeb (called just before creating .deb)
<mok0> it might work...
<slangasek> mok0: try the variable DEB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE
<TheMuso> slangasek: Thanks, I thought there would be something like that, but currently couldn't be bothered looking. :p
<mok0> slangasek: Ah! I'll check the docs
<slangasek> (found by reading the text of /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk; the ultimate anti-endorsement for cdbs)
<TheMuso> lol
<mok0> :-D
<bddebian> hehe
<joejaxx> down with cdbs!
 * joejaxx runs
<blueyed> james_w: is it possible to use "bzr import-dsc --snapshot" for Ubuntu (like snapshots.) for debian?
<mok0> DEB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE works great! Megathanx!
<james_w> blueyed: does ubuntu have a snapshots?
<blueyed> james_w: not that I know.. I thought you would know. But it's ok. I'm finding my way with dget currently.
<blueyed> Unfortunately the .dsc on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/4.4.20-8.1ubuntu3 is not dget-able AFAICS. (different paths in URL)
<imbrandon> ummm just wget them all 3 and dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<james_w> blueyed: is there an index listing the versions available anywhere?
<knights> could anyone here please explain how I do a lintian override for a file that needs to be installed setuid in my deb?
<blueyed> imbrandon: I actually drag them into the konsole and let kfmclient copy them. Still not ideal.
<blueyed> james_w: not that I know of. The above "per release" pages seem to be the best available (for old versions).
<james_w> blueyed: yeah, launchpad.net doesn't make it easy to do this.
<james_w> I would suggest wgetting all files, and then run "bzr import-dsc *.dsc".
<cyberix> Who is going to take to TB the discussion that my pq package raised?
<cyberix> Should I do it myself?
<cyberix> I was hoping the request could containt a link to my blog.
<joejaxx> cyberix: why?
<cyberix> Because I took sometime to write about the case in detail
<cyberix> http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/blog/#packagingprogressquestforubuntu
<cyberix> and I was told yesterday that only TB can decide what to do with the case and similar cases in future (in case you asked about taking it to TB)
<cyberix> joejaxx: .
<mok0> I bumped into the program YADA today. Is anyone using it? Sounds pretty useful
<TheMuso> mok0: Stay away!!!
<azeem> mok0: it's discouraged
<TheMuso> mok0: if you want to know how bad it is, talk to StevenK.
<mok0> I'm curious...
<mok0> :)
<TheMuso> Or more to the poit, watch StevenK and others rant and rave about how shocking it is.
<mok0> Hehe. OK
<joejaxx> is it worse than checkinstall? :P
 * norsetto still has nightmares after he stumbled with yada
<joejaxx> gahhhhhh
<mok0> I like the idea of having just one file to edit though...
<TheMuso> mok0: Um, if you do, take a look at rpm spec files.
<joejaxx> why does &fail(launchpad); on the day i am trying to do merges :(
<mok0> TheMuso: I have.
<norsetto> little quiz: I'm using the feisty xserver-xorg video driver, the feisty wireless driver, don't have compiz, removed strigi after 20 sec, can I be considered to be on gutsy?
<joejaxx> norsetto: ?
<mok0> I just finished a package with 9 subpackages, and it's a nightmare keeping track of all those little files...
<joejaxx> norsetto: what does lsb release say?
<TheMuso> mok0: IMO its much easier managing several files, than one big file.
<norsetto> joejaxx: ok, call me guisty then
<mok0> TheMuso: It's not bad, but I hail emacs when writing .install files... ;-)
<pwnguin> lintian question
<pwnguin> E: soulfu source: not-binnmuable-any-depends-any soulfu -> soulfu-data
<pwnguin> translation into english?
<somerville32> pwnguin, Use the information flag
<mok0> norsetto: What's your version of libc6?
<somerville32> lintian -i
<norsetto> mok0: let me check, I just saw an upgrade
<persia> pwnguin: You're using binary:version when you likely wanted source:version
<norsetto> mok0: 2.6.1-1ubuntu1
<pwnguin> no im not
<mok0> norsetto: That makes it gutsy
<pwnguin> in fact, -info suggests the opposite is trie
<pwnguin> true
<mok0> norsetto: feisty has glibc vers. 2.5
<norsetto> mok0: Ah, I see; thanks for the help
<persia> pwnguin: opposite, as in binary:version is preferred?
<pwnguin> apparently
<persia> pwnguin: Aha!  arch:any -> arch:any should be ${source:Version}, and arch:any -> arch:all should be ${source:Version}.  My apologies for the confusion.
<persia> Err... arch:any -> arch:any should be${binary:Version}, and arch:any -> arch:all should be ${source:Version}.
<pwnguin> man
<pwnguin> you wanna talk about scaring people about packaging, just paste that line
 * pwnguin goes back and reads the difference between any and all
<LaserJock> ahhh, I remember those days
<imbrandon> any gets compiled on all arches seperately, all just compiles once for all arches, like bash scripts
<LaserJock> "what the heck?!?! any and all is the same thing"
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<ajmitch> all lies
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> mmmm red koolaid
<pwnguin> what's wrong with my lintian
<pwnguin> E: soulfu_1.5.2-1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<ajmitch>  11:42:33 up 475 days, 19:35, 37 users,  load average: 0.21, 0.21, 0.22
<ajmitch> almost rollover time
<geser> time to update the kernel?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, what box is that?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, old lintian ?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i dont think so...
<ajmitch> imbrandon: a debian box
<joejaxx>  17:44:24 up 300 days,  7:34, 12 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.06
<joejaxx> :D
<pwnguin> ajmitch: theres an entire site dedicated to uptime records. sort of like a highscore list =/
<pwnguin> when i saw that i pointed out that it wouldnt be hard to modify the answer via /proc/kmem
<jdong> pwnguin: haha write a kernel module that supports writeable /proc/uptime? :D
<pwnguin> jdong: well, not that advanced
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<pwnguin> jdong: write a kernel module that kprints the address of the variable
<jdong> if I submit a patch like that on lkml, what do you think will happen? :D
<pwnguin> then use /proc/ to write to the memory address
<ajmitch> people will sigh & say 'not again'
<jdong> supporting setting an epoch to bootup time :D
<imbrandon> or just modify the copy/paste
<jdong> imbrandon: *gasp*!
<jdong> uptime: 1 million days!
<joumetal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libqalculate ...any comments?
<pwnguin> apparently the guy who thought it was easy / funny enough to try wound up with negative uptimes
<joejaxx> jdong: lol you are crazy lol
<jdong> joejaxx: haha that's my reputation around here, isn't it? :)
<imbrandon> speaking of reboots, i'll brb
<pwnguin> he still hasnt released the source because he doesn't want to be the guy who broke uptime.org for good
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<LaserJock> hmm, the uptime on my home machine is 22 days
<LaserJock> so much for being a server
<jdong> speaking of source release... I've got a quick GPL-ish question.
<persia> joumetal: which is the bug# for the transition for the rdepends (or is no transition required?)
<jdong> Let's say I'm writing a media encoder frontend that is going to use a GPL'd backend, like say ffmpeg (for the moment assume it's totally GPL)
<jdong> the way I understand it, if I choose to link against it as a library and call its API to do the encoding, I am obligated to release both my app and my ffmpeg sources under the GPL.
<jdong> however, if my app launches the ffmpeg executable externally, then I am not obligated to open-source my application.
<imbrandon> unless the ffmpeg is unmodified
<jdong> (1) Is this accurate
<Burgundavia> jdong: yes, generally
<jdong> (2) Is this right?
<Burgundavia> jdong: why not use gstreamer?
<jdong> Burgundavia: it's a totally hypothetical question
<Burgundavia> ahh, ok
<jdong> Burgundavia: I have no plans to write a closed source media encoder ;-)
<somerville32> jdong: FSF would say no and no but in reality it is Yes and maybe
<imbrandon> jdong, yes thats correct
<Burgundavia> in that case, yes, you are correct
<jdong> In this case, other than a technicality, I see nothing different between the two approaches when it comes to the big picture that I am using an open source backend.
<jdong> it confuses me why they would be treated differently?
<persia> pwnguin: Just as a last note before I stop refreshing my knowledge of dependencies, always use >= ${source:Version} (never '=') for arch:all depends on arch:any
<Burgundavia> some applications don't expose certain things publicy
<Burgundavia> also, some things are libraries, not applications
<LaserJock> jdong: I guess it sort of depends on what you think of as a "work"
<joumetal> persia do you mean bug 133336 or bug 102328? (rdepends?)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133336 in libqalculate "New upstream version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133336
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102328 in qalculate-gtk "New upstream release available" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102328
<pwnguin> persia: this is a any depends on all
<jdong> Burgundavia: then, can't I write an open-source bridging wrapper between my closed-source app and a GPL library, to expose a callable binary and proceed to profit?
<persia> jdong: source compatibility: as long as you call externally, you don't care about the source, just the behaviour.  If you call internally, you also care about the implementation.
<pwnguin> the game depends on its music, levels etc.
<Burgundavia> jdong: a good way to think about it is standing on someones shoulders vs standing next to them
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  Just wanted to mention for completeness :)
<somerville32> jdong, The answer really does depend on who you  ask.
<Burgundavia> jdong: no, because the shim library would become gpl
<imbrandon> jdong, yes you can, look at all the windows mencoder front ends
<Burgundavia> gstreamer is a great example of this
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, shim executable
<pwnguin> persia: well, then for completeness' sake, when i change "any" to "i386", does that change anything?
<jdong> Burgundavia: yes, but the shim library could just be that, a skeletal bridge that still allows my app to be closed source
<jdong> Burgundavia: IMO it sounds like circumventing the GPL by technicality again....
<pwnguin> but you couldn't like the shim library with closed object
<pwnguin> link
<Burgundavia> jdong: all law can be worked around
<jdong> pwnguin: no, but if the shim library was a shim binary..... I can popen() to it.
<imbrandon> liba is gpl, write a gpl app to make a cli interface to it, then a closed front end
<persia> pwnguin: No.  An arbitrary list of specific architecutures is considered to be equivalent to arch: any, but be a workaround for hardware issues
<somerville32> Where is mom?
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah, arguably you can build a setup like that for most GPL'd apps that would circumvent the GPL
<pwnguin> well, this is more a workaround for crappy source
<persia> somerville32: merges.ubuntu.com
<jdong> imbrandon: is it considered legal?
<pwnguin> littered with sizeof(int) == sizeof(int*) assumptions
<persia> pwnguin: Just patch it then.
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> jdong, well iirc the gpl hasnet ever been tested in court, but yes it is "legal"
<norsetto> g'night all
<persia> pwnguin: No, really: lots of people use 64bits these days
<jdong> imbrandon: are there any plans to address cheap circumventions like that?
<Burgundavia> not really
<pwnguin> persia: then any of them are welcome to write the patch
<Burgundavia> breaking that would break a lot of other stuff
<imbrandon> not really
<pwnguin> persia: i expect a couple thousand lines of patches there
<Burgundavia> the reality is that the most interesting bits people want to use in closed source stuff are libraries you cannot make into applications
<persia> pwnguin: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=04_wx-strings.diff;att=1;bug=427853
<jdong> Burgundavia: ok, interesting. thanks for the insight.
<pwnguin> persia: is there a point to that?
<persia> pwnguin: Patch size.  Go for it!
<joejaxx> persia: i am done with merging for today :D
<persia> joejaxx: Thanks for your help.
 * somerville32 does some merges.
<pwnguin> persia: it also adds a build-dep
<joejaxx> persia: there are 9 i did today
<persia> joejaxx: You'll get in your own list :)
<persia> pwnguin: Fixing 64-bit adds a build-dep?
<joejaxx> persia: ? lol
<pwnguin> persia: that patch did
<pwnguin> persia: <wx/string.h>
<persia> pwnguin: Same headers package as other includes, but that's not important.  I was talking about patch size.
<joejaxx> persia: my own list?
<persia> joejaxx: http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/
<joejaxx> oh hahaha
<pwnguin> persia: well, when you add in context lines, it's probably around five to thousand in length...
<joejaxx> i have no where near over 100 uploads
<joejaxx> oh wait
<joejaxx> nevermind it is the beginning of the cycle
<joejaxx> :D
<persia> joejaxx: 9 is a big number right now :)
<imbrandon> yea 13 makes te list :)
 * joejaxx searches for some more merges
<pwnguin> persia: personally, the effort vs reward isn't there for me to write it. its possible someone else does, and they're welcome to submit patches. i recall someone on the upstream forum stating they took a look at it
<pwnguin> joejaxx: merge thinkfinger
<persia> pwnguin: If someone else is looking at it, then that's fine.  Just remember that amd64 is one of the supported architectures, so we need a good reason not to support it.
<joejaxx> pwnguin: i do not see that on the list
<pwnguin> im not sure what happened
<pwnguin> oh
<pwnguin> sorry
<pwnguin> it'd be a sync
<pwnguin> terminology ftl
<pwnguin> persia: well, if upstream can't be bothered to care, im not sure I want to start caring...
<imbrandon> ponders upgrading to hardy
<joejaxx> i am definitely going to screenshot the top ten uploaders if i make it :D
<somerville32> imbrandon, I just added hardy as a deb-src
<pwnguin> persia: it was painful enough just to get it to BUILD on i386 linux
<somerville32> I figured downloading it's binaries would be a scary ride at this point
<ScottK2> persia: Do you follow the MOTU Council list?
<rexbron> Hey everyone, Genpo has been updated and is up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo Thanks :)
<superm1_> joejaxx, how often does your top 10 uploaders thing update?
<joejaxx> superm1_: i update it everyday
<joejaxx> or almost everyday
<superm1_> joejaxx, ook
<imbrandon> cron ? hehe
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i put it on a cron before and it broken
<joejaxx> broke*
<joejaxx> i never put it back
<mok0> joejaxx: Where can we see that 10 uploaders thingie?
<joejaxx> mok0: ubuntu.joejaxx.org
<persia> ScottK2: Yes.
<knights> Why am I getting:
<knights> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<knights> at the end of debuild?
<knights> gpg --list-secret-keys prints my key OK
<persia> knights: The last entry in the changelog doesn't match any of the identities for any of the secret keys on your keyring
<knights> Thanks persia!
<knights> persia: Thats not the case. I take it you mean the top/most recent entry in debian/changelog? That perfectly matches my gpg key name ans e-mail
<knights> http://pastebin.ca/762867
<knights> That's my changelog
<persia> knights: In that case, you probably have a comment as part of the identity in your key, and forgot to put the comment in the changelog.
<mok0> knights: Is "allcoms@gmail.com" defined in your gpg key?
<gnomefreak> good idea never post email addresses in email formoat
<knights> Oh! You're right! I put a comment in too!
<gnomefreak> ;)
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: lol
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: why not?
<gnomefreak> spam
<gnomefreak> lots of spam
<LaserJock> umm, it's going to be indexed by google anyway
<mok0> gnomefreak: Don't you have a spamfilter?
<gnomefreak> these are public channels
<nixternal> !offtopic
<ubotu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
<gnomefreak> mok0: a few but isnt it nicer when you dont have to worry
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: as soon as it's uploaded it's more "available" than these channels
<nixternal> this is a developer channel, please take all off-topic stuff to the correct channel
<nixternal> kthxbye :p
<joejaxx> nixternal: lol
<joejaxx> nixternal: that was random :P
<LaserJock> nixternal: I think your !offtopic is the only offtopic ;-)
<knights> So basically I've now got to scrap my gpg key, get a new one and re-register with launchpad have I??
<nixternal> imbrandon: where the heck are you at? you are the !offtopic officer
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i didnt know once uploaded they were googlible(may not be a word)
<joejaxx> nixternal: lol
<Fujitsu> knights: Or just add a comment to the changelog...
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Google for your email address.
<Fujitsu> Note several results for each upload you have ever made.
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: sure
<ScottK2> mok0: Did you get your merging questions answered?
<gnomefreak> knights: just add an email to your key
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: will in a sec
<mok0> ScottK2: mmmm... yeah, sorta
<gnomefreak> knights: you can have more than 1 address per gpg key
<gnomefreak> crap cant google
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: googling my email address give 1,430 results
<ScottK2> mok0: Let me know what you need help with and I'll get glad to assist in getting you going.
<mok0> I figure I have to file a bug report and attach a debdiff...'
<gnomefreak> well i could be too much trouble in links2/lynx
<knights> Does my comment go inbetween my name and e-mail address in the last changelog entry?
<gnomefreak> comment?
<Fujitsu> knights: name (comment) <email>
<mok0> ScottK2: Thx. Did you see my email about kaksi?
 * gnomefreak lost
<joejaxx> lol
<knights> Fujitsu: So the comment goes in brackets right?
<knights> I mean parentheses
<knights> or whatever you want to call ()
<ScottK2> mok0: I did.  As long as there's a verbatim copy of the license in the tarball and the intent of upstream is clear, the archive should accept a package that's missing GPL headers in a few files.
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i only get maybe 50
<Fujitsu> knights: Yes.
<knights> cool- thanks!
<ScottK2> mok0: So it's really up to you if you want to continue with it or not.
 * mok0 checks to look
<knights> erm, my comment happens to be a .org e-mail. Is that ok?
<gnomefreak> omg it does show uploaded packages
<knights> sorry, web address
<gnomefreak> ty LaserJock
<mok0> ScottK2: There is a COPYING file, but the comments I got from various reviewers was about the missing GPL clauses in some of the source files
<knights> my comment is a web address- is that OK still?
<mok0> ScottK2: Anyways, if upstream is not active, it is perhaps not reasonable to include the program in Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Of course.
<Fujitsu> Changelogs, -changes mails...
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: yeah that
<Fujitsu> Bugs with changelog-closes-bugs comments...
<Fujitsu> (that last one will be fixed soon)
<gnomefreak> sorry im trying to get blood taken and talking to someone in my lug
<ScottK2> mok0: They'll take it, but I suspect you're right if it's not maintained.  You might ask LaserJock for an opinion.  He does a lot of science stuff.
<Fujitsu> I take it that somebody synced a lot of new stuff from Debian.
<mok0> ScottK2: Is there a "go" for new software upload for reviewing?
<ScottK2> mok0: Yes.  Today is the first REVU day of the Hardy cycle.
<mok0> ScottK2: Cool!
<superm1_> Fujitsu, i tried to close as many bugs as i could find for mplayer that were supposed to be resolved by 1.0~rc2, but i'm sure i missed a few.  since your more familiar with the bug list, when you get a chance can you double check if there are any others that stood out
<Fujitsu> superm1_: So I noticed.
<Fujitsu> I'll have a look now.
<mok0> ScottK2: I've been working to package Torque (formerly OpenPBS) -- a very cool job submission system but it's licensed under a weird license. I am wondering if it could go into Multiverse
<joejaxx> mok0: what are the terms of the license?
<mok0> Well it's open source with some restrictions
<Fujitsu> mok0: Can you link to the license, please?
<mok0> Fujitsu: Hang on, I'll pastebin it
<Fujitsu> mok0: Thanks.
<mok0> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43478/
<Fujitsu> Registration? Ew.
<mok0> Fujitsu: Yup
<Fujitsu> That's multiverse, if that.
<mok0> Fujitsu: What are the conditions for multiverse?
<Fujitsu> Hm, does the second point imply that you may only redistribute it to those who will use it for non-commercial purposes, or that you will only redistribute it non-commercially?
<Fujitsu> mok0: Basically if we have the source but it's not quite free enough. Non-commercial, or whatever.
<pwnguin> mok0: this is not meant to be a complete list of conditions: must be redistributable
<ScottK2> Except it says points one and two don't apply anymore.
<mok0> This software was developed for NCSA under a contract.
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: Ah, true.
<mok0> It is not even called OpenPBS anymore... :-)
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: What do you think about paragraph 6?
<ScottK2> That's essentially clause 4 of the old 4 clause BSD
<Fujitsu> That looks non-free like 4-clause BSD.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<ScottK2> It's not non-free, just non-GPL
<Fujitsu> Otherwise (as long as 1&2 don't actually apply) it looks OK.
<pwnguin> must be redistributable, must not impose conditions on other software, must not discriminate against endevors, that sort of stuff. some people also feel it should be limited to things that are very nearly open source
<mok0> Like I said: the license is weird :-)
<ScottK2> I think it's free and fine for Universe.  It just can't be combined with GPL code.
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: Even with the advertising clause?
<pwnguin> the advertising clause is free, just annoying
<ScottK2> Debian accepts stuff with that
<Fujitsu> OK, universe it is, then.
<Fujitsu> I really wish people would use standard licenses.
<mok0> Fujitsu: Really? You think?
<knights> debsign failed again because I don't have pinentry installed
<ScottK2> mok0: Yes.  They key thing is points 1 and 2 are non-operative, so it's essentially just 4 clause bsd
<knights> what package contains this?
<mok0> This is a complicated package, I can submit it to revu.. ?
<Fujitsu> !find debsign
<ScottK2> knights: What are you running
<Fujitsu> mok0: Go ahead.
<knights> gutsy
<Fujitsu> Oh, pinentry, not debsign, oops.
<ubotu> File debsign found in devscripts, zsh, zsh-beta
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, my personal favorite is the WTFPL
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Heh, yes.
<mok0> Fujitsu: ok will do
<ScottK2> knights: Feisty/Gutsy and Ubuntu/Kubuntu?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu,  and its dfsg free too :) http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/
<ScottK2> knights: It shouldn't be needed.  It'll be pinentry-qt or pinentry-gtk2.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lololololo
<knights> Actually, this box is ubuntu studio. I installed pinentry-gtk and its on now
<pwnguin> heh, there's an old demoscene invite that comes with a very similar license
<imbrandon> joejaxx, sounds funny but its an honest to goodness lic approved to be dfsg and written by a former dpl iirc
<pwnguin> vip2
<pwnguin> http://www.sesse.net/vip2-linux/
<mok0> Successfully uploaded packages. To revu. Enjoy ;-)
<knights> mok0, : what?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Can you please point sparky's ntpd at a local uni server?
<Fujitsu> It has drifted by 20 seconds in the past 12 hours.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, how about pool.de.ntp.org ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: NTP outbound is blocked.
<Fujitsu> faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
<imbrandon> i dont know if there is one localy
<Fujitsu> That should work.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> give me a sec
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-06
<LaserJock> man, java wouldn't be so annoying if there weren't so many stinkin' acronyms
<imbrandon> err looks to be done now, only ntp.conf change and restart the service right ?
<LaserJock> JRE, JVM, JDK, JSE
<imbrandon> strange how it wont let me manualy set it though
<pwnguin> yea, they should use goofy names instead
<joumetal> anyone intrested reviewing libqalculate. it's in revu
<pwnguin> stdlib, stdio, boost, hibernate
<LaserJock> well, I don't minde the names
<pwnguin> actually, i think hibernate is a java thing
<pwnguin> Spring
<LaserJock> it's just that you never know what you're actually supposed to get
<pwnguin> pop quiz: what does turbogears do?
<somerville32> Makes your gears go faster! :)
<Kmos> lol
<imbrandon> pwnguin, the python stuff?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: right
<imbrandon> its a framework for python we apps then in that case
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: ntpdate won't run when ntpd is.
<joumetal> It provides command line qalculator and is dependency of scientific calculator qalculate.
<imbrandon> web*
<mok0> knights: Oh, I just uploaded the torque package to revu. The one with the weird license
<pwnguin> its a web scripting framework.
<ajmitch> pwnguin: why?
<knights> OK guys, I'm ready! Its took me all weekend, and thanks to the patience of persia and friends I can now upload my Ubuntu xdtv package which IMO is THE missing multimedia package from Debian and Ubuntu as of this moment because its the only fully-featured, stable app for analogue video capture capable of DVD+ quality capture under Linux. Could someone kindly to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
 * ScottK2 looks over at imbrandon ^^^
 * imbrandon looks up
<knights> Itza belter!
<imbrandon> knights, sure give me a sec
 * Fujitsu wonders who uses analogue video these days.
<imbrandon> knights, syncing now, i'lll announce when it completes
<knights> He, it does DVB capture very well too AND streaming and timed capture so its a DVR app too
<LaserJock> what would consitute analogue video?
<LaserJock> *consititue
<LaserJock> bah, whatever
<knights> v4l(2) capture devices, s-video or composite or aerial signals
 * mok0 looks at xdtv & thinks it looks cool
<LaserJock> right, I think that would be me
<knights> brooktree cards are good and popular for this use
<LaserJock> although I don't capture it
<LaserJock> except occasionally on a VCR
 * Fujitsu admits that he does need to digitise some old video camera tapes, and hasn't found an app to do much about that before.
<knights> thats what I've got anyway a bt878
<knights> Well here you go Fujitsu- you use xdtv to capture it, then DeVeDe to convery it to DVD or SVCD- dead easy now eh? :D
 * LaserJock just uses coax cable
<LaserJock> I haven't upgraded to component cable just yet
<LaserJock> I'm afraid they're going to shut down my TV here pretty soon
<knights> If you have a DV camera with s-video or comp input you can go through firewire to do this too- but do you have both a firewire card and a decent camera etc?
<Fujitsu> knights: Right, and I need to convince my saa7134 that it wants to capture audio.
<knights> Yes, I think that should be great for it
<LaserJock> anybody know when the US is supposed to go all digital for TV?
<knights> It is supported by v4l2 isn't it?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, by the end of 08 iirc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yikes :(
<LaserJock> I better save my pennies
<LaserJock> my new TV is from 1991
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> it's started in NZ
<pwnguin> LaserJock: i dont think cable companies are regulated by that
<pwnguin> just tv station over the air broadcasts
<LaserJock> pwnguin: that's all I've got
<imbrandon> yea no more 700mhz broadcasts for TV
<LaserJock> so it's buy a new TV or switch to cable
<LaserJock> ?
<knights> imbrandon: How long does sync normally take?
<LaserJock> or just don't bother ...
<imbrandon> knights, 15 to 30 minutes, its about 3/4 done
 * knights dead excited!
<knights> Thanks imbrandon!
<Fujitsu> knights: It is V4L two, yes.
<knights> or 1
<Fujitsu> 2, bah.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: or wait for congress to balk because you havent bought a new tv
<knights> 2 is pref
<Fujitsu> knights: It is v4l2, as I see v4l1_compat stuff.
<knights> Yes- despite me packaging this app I'd totally advocate everybody binning their TVs
<LaserJock> pwnguin: or have them buy me one! :-)
<crimsun> joejaxx: we do (i.e., best effort)
<knights> If there's one thing that would survive the apocalypse it'll be the BBC
<imbrandon> LaserJock, just get a tv capture card and watch cable via the small window while python hacking
<somerville32> imbrandon, Thats hawt.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: cable? that's a bit ... pricey
<pwnguin> 50 dollars a month!
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> My internet costs me $50 a month
<somerville32> Although I can get internet, cable, and phone for $99 a month
<imbrandon> i only have cable for 2 reasons, stargate atlantis on scifi and Heroes
<pwnguin> my internet costs me 25
<LaserJock> yeah there's no way I could do $40/month
<somerville32> pwnguin, What speed?
<LaserJock> *$50
<pwnguin> somerville32: crappy
<pwnguin> like 1.5mbit
<somerville32> pwnguin, Mine is 7mb/s
<pwnguin> good for you
<somerville32> I don't eat because of it
<somerville32> :(
<imbrandon> mine is ~140 a month, cable tv + hbo sho and max , phone, and internets
<LaserJock> yikes
<pwnguin> imbrandon is gainfully employed
<pwnguin> not a phd candidate in chemistry
<imbrandon> 33 each + taxes
<LaserJock> I pay $100 for DSl, landline, and 2 cell phones
<imbrandon> i dont think i could have a computer hobby if my wife dident have the tube
<imbrandon> so it works out
<knights> Fujitsu: As I thought, your card should be perfect for xdtv: http://linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/Saa713x_devices
<LaserJock> if I could  get rid of the landline it'd be nice
<nixternal> I pay $0 for Comcast, I pay $0 for cell phone, but I pay a shitton for gasoline :)
<imbrandon> knights, sync finished
<LaserJock> nixternal: how much for gas?
<knights> \o/
<nixternal> 25gal tank, you do the math :)
<Fujitsu> knights: Aha, thanks. I'll look into that.
<LaserJock> nixternal: what's the price, is what I'm asking
<nixternal> $3.10/gal today
<pwnguin> so i have a licensing question: the sourcecode is clearly labelled GPLv3, but it uses game data that may or may not be DFSG
<pwnguin> multiverse appropriate?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: SoulFu?
<pwnguin> Fujitsu: yea
<Fujitsu> We need to know the license.
<LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, that is steep, I think we're averaging around $3.20 here
<Fujitsu> Even for multiverse.
<nixternal> on average, to fill up is anywhere from $70 to $80 depending on gas
<nixternal> we will get up there...I just helped the gas station run out of gas today I think
<LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, I've got a big minivan. it takes around that
<somerville32> It is ~$0.98 here.
<imbrandon> wha?
<rexbron> hmm, I am getting an RTLD_NOW not declared in this scope when trying to compile....
<rexbron> error that is
<somerville32> Sometimes it goes over the dollar.
<somerville32> A few years ago it was 0.70 - 0.80
<LaserJock> somerville32: /liter?
<somerville32> Yeah
<Fujitsu> ~1.40AUD per litre here.
<crimsun> rexbron: so, a missing include.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: What brings you to these parts so frequently of late?
<somerville32> Yea for different denominations and measuring systems that mean nothing to me! :)
<crimsun> Fujitsu: "the calm before the storm"
<LaserJock> somerville32: it's ~ $0.85/liter here
<rexbron> crimsun: emm, is dlopen and its lot declared in libstdc++?
<somerville32> LaserJock, Yeah, it is pretty expensive here.
<mok0> Here price of gas is ~1.37 euro/L (us$1.85/L)
<LaserJock> I think you have to also take into account average fuel efficency :-)
<crimsun> rexbron: <dlfcn.h>
<LaserJock> I've been to Paris and Sevilla and I'd have to say the average car size is quite a bit smaller there ;-)
<mok0> It's mostly a difference in tax on gas
<rexbron> crimsun:  cool
<imbrandon> like my durango getting 11mi gal ? heh
<LaserJock> yeah, I have one car that 15mpg and one that 17mpg
<joejaxx> oh wow :\
<LaserJock> yeah ... my wife likes big vehicles
<LaserJock> she doesn't feel safe in anything that's not 4 wheel drive and hefty
<joejaxx> ah ok
<somerville32> Poor planet Earth.
<LaserJock> personally I'd be fine with a little car
<LaserJock> but she doesn't like them at all
<LaserJock> somerville32: it'll get over it ;-)
 * ajmitch doesn't understand these people that feel they need to drive around in a tank
<LaserJock> umm
<somerville32> Can I ask a touchy question?
<ajmitch> no
<LaserJock> I see enough accidents on a daily basis
<LaserJock> I'm not gonna drive a mini-coffin around ;-)
<ajmitch> you know why those accidents are bad? because the other guy is driving the tank :)
<knights> well, dput said it successfully uploaded but then it said `Not running dinstall.` - is that right?
<ajmitch> it's like an arms race
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: ironically, SUVs are among the least safe vehicles around, due to high centre of balance
<crimsun> knights: yes.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: it's not me I'm worried about ;-)
<knights> Yay!
<somerville32> The last accident I saw, someone drove into a traffic light and knocked it over :/
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, it is
<somerville32> Poor traffic light
<knights> xdtv arrives!
<somerville32> :(
<knights> damn! as if my announcement co-incided with irc talk of a traffic accident :(
<LaserJock> somerville32: yeah, I've seen a few of those too
<knights> :)
<LaserJock> heh
<somerville32> Bye
 * ajmitch thinks that people should use bikes more
<knights> wo!
<knights> must've said something
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I wish that worked more around here
<LaserJock> my labmate bikes a lot
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I can walk to work each day
<knights> or some major server has collapsed
<LaserJock> there's no parking around here
<ajmitch> there's little parking around uni
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I live 10 miles from school, it'd take a while
<knights> Fujitsu: xdtv should be in revu now
<LaserJock> then I go to my grandparents which is 120 miles away
<LaserJock> and my parents which is 900 miles away
<Fujitsu> knights: I haven't got time today - another important exam tomorrow.
<somerville32> Anyhow, time to ask that touchy question. The person who uploaded the package that caused  the x-server mess, did they lose upload privs?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Walk there!
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't take toooooooooo long.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: What xserver mess?
<LaserJock> rodrigo?
 * Fujitsu hasn't seen one... since that Dapper SRU.
<LaserJock> that dapper update?
<somerville32> Yeah
<LaserJock> no, he didn't
<Fujitsu> Nobody has ever lost upload privileges.
<Fujitsu> (other than normal expiry when they've been inactive forever)
<imbrandon> unless they intentionaly deactivated themselfs
<imbrandon> yes
<Fujitsu> SRU processes are now improved.
<ajmitch> somerville32: in that case, he did test, just not on a wide enough range of hardware
<LaserJock> the "/sh" syndrome
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Which has happened once.
<Fujitsu> It was a silly change to make in an SRU.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: silly change?
<ajmitch> it was something meant to fix another bug
<ajmitch> I can't remember details, it was to do with some PCI magic
 * Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> It sounded risky.
<Fujitsu> (and obviously was)
<LaserJock> I don't know why they made him do X anyway
<ajmitch> and wasn't tested enough, as we know now
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Can you post the ml post for the upload?
<knights> Fujitsu: What exam is this?
<ajmitch>    * Added 005_pci_domain.dpatch (Closes Malone #54880)
<knights> How long will it take before my package shows up on http://revu.tauware.de/ ?
<imbrandon> ok i'm off line for a bit, back in a few hours
<Fujitsu> knights: At the next 10 minutely processing job.
<crimsun> ah, so it's joejaxx who's filling my inbox
<crimsun> joejaxx: keep up the good work!
<imbrandon> knights, 10 min or so
<knights> cool- I can hack that :)
<joejaxx> crimsun: :D
<ubotu_> Launchpad bug 54880 in xorg-server "Does not support Linux PCI domains" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54880
<ajmitch> what is joejaxx breaking?
<ajmitch> thanks ubotu_
<crimsun> merges
<ajmitch> slow bot
<Fujitsu> Ubotu is speedy as always.
<somerville32> As about speedy as my computer, I'd say.
<azeem> if somebody wants to try building opensync-0.34 packages: deb-src http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/debian-opensync/ ./
<LaserJock> does anybody here know anything about how translations/lang packs work?
<azeem> slangasek: ^^
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I know a little. What do you want to know?
<azeem> (I didn't get around setting up a hardy chroot yet)
<somerville32> azeem, Is it like a puzzle?
<somerville32> azeem, Why not use PPA?
<azeem> somerville32: ?
<ajmitch> somerville32: why use a PPA?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I'm sort of tring to debug why gcompris has bad translations
<azeem> somerville32: because it's 1:50 AM and I fought cmake
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What's broken about them?
<azeem> I'm not going to figure out hardy or ppa now
<ajmitch> azeem: good work on getting it done then :)
<ajmitch> are PPAs still restricted to beta users only?
<somerville32> yes
<somerville32> But who isn't a beta user?
<ajmitch> many, many people
<Fujitsu> It's well over 500 now, isn't it?
<Fujitsu> 770, ouch.
<ajmitch> even so, having to get PPA approval before being able to upload & get things built is just another obstacle
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Is that a problem?
<Fujitsu> I think we want more obstacles, not fewer.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: actually it looks like LP says that it's all translated, but the UI doesn't show it
<ajmitch> that's bureaucracy, not anything actually useful
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I was thinking maybe it was a packaging thing, but maybe it's an LP thing
<ajmitch> if you want more obstacles, you may as well ask people to fill out forms in triplicate & bury them in a peat bog for a few months
<LaserJock> ajmitch: capital idea good fellow!
 * LaserJock looks around for a peat bog
<somerville32> superm1, \o/
<joejaxx> somerville32: \o/
<somerville32> :D
<joejaxx> :D
<superm1_> hi
<superm1_> what's up?
<somerville32> superm1_, I noticed you joined xubuntu-team
<superm1_> somerville32, :)
<somerville32> superm1_, You should join us in #xubuntu-devel for tea.
<superm1_> yeah i uploaded two or three plugins too
<somerville32> I'm merging xfce4-session at the moment
<somerville32> Just building to see if it works :)
<somerville32> and it does.
<LaserJock> somerville32: heah .... you could help me with a bug test
<somerville32> LaserJock, Oh?
<LaserJock> there's a bug about gcompris not working correctly with Xfce
<LaserJock> bug #41172
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 41172 in gcompris "XUBUNTU panels in Gcompris" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41172
<LaserJock> think you could give it a test real quick?
<somerville32> LaserJock, Sure.
 * Fujitsu wonders why lots of people ALLCAPS Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> BECAUSE ITS FUN
<somerville32> YEAH!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I honestly have no idea
<LaserJock> maybe they are an OS X users mostly
<joejaxx> lol
<superm1_> why would osx users do that?
<superm1_> :)
<joejaxx> TESTING :D
<joejaxx> lol
 * Fujitsu attacks joejaxx with pointed sticks.
<somerville32> LaserJock, I love the bug report description
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: hey! i do not think Hobbsee licensed those out
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> broken, plz fix?
<joejaxx> :P
<somerville32> close.
<LaserJock> somerville32: yes, it's a bit difficult for me to understand exactly
<somerville32> "When i start de gcompris in XUBUNTU open the gcompris, but the panels 1 and 2 stay with the program open.
<somerville32> In other desktop no had panel with gcompris."
<ajmitch> joejaxx: don't summon the hobbsee
<crimsun> somerville32: xfwm4<->gcompris, probably
<LaserJock> crimsun: when gcompris is opened fullscreen the xfce panels apparently stay on top
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<LaserJock> crimsun: I believe that's what the bug is
<ajmitch> file a removal request for gcompris, problem solved
<LaserJock> doh
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<LaserJock> gcompris is arguable *the* top educational app in Linux
<joejaxx> i think MoM
<joejaxx> is messing up
<joejaxx>     + Build-Depend on libx11-dev | xlibs-dev, libxpm-dev | xlibs-dev.
<joejaxx> that is from the debian changelogs
<Fujitsu> MoM does have some issues, but nothing critical.
<Fujitsu> Saying there are conflicts where there aren't, etc.
<joejaxx> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.0), cdbs, libx11-dev, libxpm-dev
<joejaxx> that is the debian modification
<joejaxx> wth did those bild depends go?
<joejaxx> build*
<joejaxx> they are listed under the ubuntu modifications
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Look at the patches that MoM generated.
<LaserJock> joejaxx: don't look at MoM ...
<ajmitch> merge without MoM
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Were there any conflicts?
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yes
<ajmitch> there's your answer
<LaserJock> MoM was boozing it up and got a little tipsy
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah but that line is listed under the ubuntu modication
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you were a bad influence
<LaserJock> "hmmm, I can't remember what dep was supposed to go here, ah well"
<ajmitch> joejaxx: that's probably quite true - the same line would have been changed in different ways
<ajmitch> you do not need the xlibs-dev build dependency
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so look at the debdiff
<joejaxx> LOL
<LaserJock> sorry joejaxx
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't tell me to, tell joejaxx to :)
<crimsun> ah, I remember the X.Org b-d transition
<joejaxx> i just stumbled across the canonical ldap directory
<joejaxx> loool
<ajmitch> crimsun: back in the day....
<TheMuso> joejaxx: as I said, look at the patches, particularly the patch that MoM gave you from the previous merge. That patch shows what was changed.
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Er?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it wasn't that long ago was it? was it before the GL transition?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it was long enough ago
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I think I remember it
 * ajmitch feels old & washed up
<LaserJock> I kinda came in at the middle of the GL transition
<somerville32> crimsun, share some love?
<somerville32> Bug #160314
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160314 in xfce4-session "xfce4-session: merge new Debian version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160314
<crimsun> somerville32: after "MODPOST 1939 modules" completes.
<ajmitch> sigh, I bought a new novel at lunchtime, I know what I'll be doing until sometime in the morning
<LaserJock> geeze
<LaserJock> I wish I had time to read
<LaserJock> instead I'm stuck wasting my day on IRC ;-)
<ajmitch> oh I do things like reading instead of wasting my time on ubuntu :)
<LaserJock> shesh
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
<somerville32> lol
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm sticking jdong on you :p
<ajmitch> LaserJock: run now
<jdong> LaserJock: hey, you provide chem homework help for Ubuntu members, right? :D
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> what kind of chem homework?
<jdong> LaserJock: really basic
<joejaxx> wow
<jdong> no pun intended.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: here's your chance to put him off chemistry forever
<joejaxx> so i found out
<joejaxx> it was a debian regression
 * jdong hits himself for that pun actually
<LaserJock> I used to tutor for $30/hr
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> someone please ban jdong
<jdong> LaserJock: what's the dissociation equation for K3PO4 in water? I'm assuming it's a base
<LaserJock> geeze, I don't give away answers ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm guessing K3PO4 + H2O <--> K+ + K2HPO4 + OH-?
<LaserJock> what do you take me for, an MIT student?!?! ;-)
<Fujitsu> jdong: You know how we have the FTBFS issues because of Sun Java wanting EULA acceptance on the buildds? Can we modify them to dep on icedtea instead?
 * joejaxx misses Chemistry
<jdong> Fujitsu: assuming that they aren't broken by the changes in Java 7, yes. It's worth a try definitely
<joejaxx> i should have majored in that instead of compsci/math/mis
<joejaxx> jdong: lol java7
<jdong> LaserJock: haha well I put in a good attempt, help the poor kid :)
<jdong> joejaxx: hmm?
<LaserJock> jdong: that doesn't look right
<Fujitsu> jdong: If it builds, is it OK?
<jdong> LaserJock: or does it take  --> HK3PO4+ + OH-? That looks even more awkward.
<LaserJock> jdong: oh, it's the K+ OH- that looked odd
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I suppose you've forgotten all that early chemistry stuff? :)
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: :D
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm really tempted to think it would go down the K(n-1)H(n+1)PO4 path as far as the salt on the other side goes, right?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: quite, it was about 9 years ago now
<jdong> Fujitsu: I'd assume so :) it's better than not building at all, right?
<Fujitsu> jdong: True, true.
<gnomefreak> sorry having ~/.irssi/config issues
<LaserJock> jdong: that seems logical to me
<LaserJock> jdong: you *could* lose the O and get a PO3 but I'm thinking not
<jdong> LaserJock: hmm it's the first problem set on acid-bases so I doubt they'd pull something that unexpected on us
<LaserJock> unless you had something that wanted Os
<jdong> LaserJock: I get the feeling like it's supposed to be a really basic question
<azeem> jdong: keep hydrogen tunelling in mind!!
<azeem> tunnelling*
<jdong> LaserJock: it's simply classifying this huge list of compounds into acids or bases or neither
<jdong> and then of course dissociation equation
<LaserJock> jdong: I guess I would have done KOH + H2HPO4 but other than that
<jdong> LaserJock: agreed, but wouldn't KOH in turn readily dissociate into K+ and OH-?
<LaserJock> well, K2HPO4 would too
<azeem> the question is whether H2KPO4 will stay around, or whether everything will be ionized
<LaserJock> you'd get down to 3K+ + PO43- ,etc.
<jdong> all, all forms of K*H*PO4 are used as buffers
<jdong> so yeah I guess ultimately it'd ionize down even more
<LaserJock> that might depend on the ionic strength or some such
<jdong> ok, well that answer is good enough for me then.
<LaserJock> jdong: I would guess your answer was probably OK
<jdong> LaserJock: would you be willing to tackle one of them amine ones? :)
<LaserJock> jdong: but if you get it wrong don't blame me
<LaserJock> my chemistry answers are "use at your own risk" ;-)
<somerville32> What is the compound again?
<LaserJock> jdong: what is it?
<jdong> somerville32: K3PO4, tribasic potassium phosphate
<jdong> methylamine hydrocholride.....
<jdong> which I'm guessing is CH3NH2*HCL?
<jdong> it's tempting to say the HCL part screams acid, but I don't have good reason to suspect that
<somerville32> H means acid :P
<jdong> somerville32: haha :)
<jdong> somerville32: I wish for those times again ;-)
<somerville32> States of matter matter!
<somerville32> Where are your states of matter!!
<joejaxx> lolol
<somerville32> Isn't it ionic how we forget such things?
 * Fujitsu sets Hobbsee on somerville32.
<LaserJock> jdong: hehe, found something on it on a webpage about ecstacy
<jdong> LaserJock: ROFL
<Fujitsu> Hahahah.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: you better be careful she might make you pay royalties for using the pointed sticks on me without permission :P
 * ajmitch is shocked
 * Fujitsu sneaks up behind ajmitch with some alligator clips.
<LaserJock> jdong: well, it looks to me like it's CH2NH*HCl
<LaserJock> jdong: in which case I might expect it to go to CH3NH+ + Cl-
<jdong> LaserJock: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methylamine_hydrochloride.html
<somerville32> Where did the Cl come from with K3(PO4)?
<jdong> LaserJock: either way, whatever the extension, I think you're right with the NHx+ + Cl-
 * jdong checks if these have to be written a la bronsted-lowry...
<jdong> somerville32: different question now :)
<somerville32> What was the answer to that one and what are we on now?
<jdong> somerville32: I'm gonna go with K3PO4 + H2O <--> K+ + K2HPO4 + OH-
<LaserJock> jdong: it actually might depend on if its CH3NH2*HCl or CH3NH*HCl
<jdong> somerville32: we are now working on CH3NH3C
<jdong> err stupid network
<LaserJock> I guess the former would be a hydrogen bond via the lonepair on the N
<jdong> CH3NH3Cl ,l[B[B[A[A[A[A[A[A[A~.
<jdong>  that should be
<jdong> ok, that looks good then
<LaserJock> in which case it'd end up as perhaps H3CNH2 + H+ + Cl-
<jdong> ok, cool, that's what I have down currently
<jdong> LaserJock: any guesses on C5H5NHCl?
<jdong> it looks extremely similar :D
<LaserJock> jdong: heh, that's funny, I actually got some Gen Chem lectures from MIT off of iTunes U
<jdong> sweet
 * jdong just wants to fulfill the institute requirement on chem and run away from that subject :D
<LaserJock> I wanted to see how the "big guns" teach
<minghua> jdong: Do I need to do anything else for bug 160361, or can you already approve it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160361 in gutsy-backports "Please backport scim-hangul 0.3.1-1ubuntu1 from hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160361
<zul> evening
<LaserJock> jdong: is that really C5?
<jdong> minghua: that one sounds good for backporting
<joejaxx> hello zul
<jdong> LaserJock: yes, according to the worksheet it is
<zul> hi joejaxx
<ajmitch> welcome to chemistry class, zul
<jdong> LaserJock: pyridinium chloride, one of those ring structure thingies
<zul> ajmitch: lovely i never had chemistry
<jdong> with an N+-H tail
<jdong> these molecular biology-ish topics scare me.
<LaserJock> jdong: k, I was just wondering if it was a typo and was really a benzene
<minghua> jdong: I'll leave it in your hands then, thanks.
<elkbuntu> ... -motu has become -chemistry-homework?
<zul> i like doughnuts
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: apparantly so
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: hello! :D
<joejaxx> zul: lool
<jdong> minghua: sounds good, I'll approve it shortly
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, hi! :D
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: :D
<jdong> minghua: on the condition that LaserJock finishes my chem homework ;-)
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, no texan bus driver incidents from last week?
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: LOL! nope
 * ajmitch wonders what story elkbuntu is referring to now
<cyberix> Does anybody know the correct package for this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/160362
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160362 in ubuntu ""Ubuntu has some information for you."" [Undecided,New]
<minghua> ... that's a strange bug title.
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, maah wayuf wahz ah may-uhn
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: orly?
<knights> mayan?
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: LMAO
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, surely you remember the texan bus driver from mt view?
<jdong> cyberix: I think that's a functionality of update-manager
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: hmm, no, I wasn't on the bus much
<jdong> cyberix: and if I recall, the description in the balloon popup does say what you said it should say
<joejaxx> hello persia ! :D
<persia> hey joejaxx
<jdong> cyberix: i.e. the title is information available, but the bubble says "Something might require your attention, etc"
<cyberix> oh
<cyberix> Well the user didn't seem tonotice that.
<zul> maybe the notification should be something like "you have reached an invalid number, if you think this is a bug please try again later this has been a recording"
<jdong> cyberix: well would blinking red text and text-to-speech in a sexy female announcer voice help? ;-)
<somerville32> K2PO4 + H20.. would you not just do double replacement?
<somerville32> Otherwise it is just K2 +  PO4 - since K2PO4 has  high solubility
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, he started on with racist stuff with joejaxx on board. i wasnt on the bus either, but mneptok's reenactment was quite humorous
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: I don't recall that
<LaserJock> somerville32: it's K3PO4
<somerville32> w/e
<jdong> somerville32: K3, and considering that the topic is acid-base reactions I'm expecting them to readily follow the stereotypical bronstead-lowry forms
<ajmitch> maybe I was asleep :)
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: LOL
<zul> elkbuntu: he was hilarious
<jdong> somerville32: at least I need to dissociate it enough to demonstrate that it's indeed a base; past that I honestly don't care ;-)
<somerville32> jdong: Does the reaction occur after the dissociation?
<zul> elkbuntu: minus the racist stuff
<LaserJock> jdong: can you check C5H5NHCl again? that just seems wrong
<elkbuntu> zul, the other bus driver was just as humorous. he couldnt figure the way between the hotel and the googleplex
<joejaxx> i had a question for you all :P
<somerville32> joejaxx, Good for you :P
<elkbuntu> !ask | joejaxx
<ubotu> joejaxx: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: that's y'all
<joejaxx> has anyone ever thought about using package deltas for the updates repository?
 * elkbuntu ducks
<persia> joejaxx: Yes, and it's an annoying problem to which there is no clear solution.
<jdong> LaserJock: verified, it's C5H5N (pyridine) protonated to C5H5NH+ (pyridinium ion), and the chloride salt of that
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sure
<joejaxx> instead of an entire new package
<joejaxx> persia: oh?
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: lol :P
<jdong> LaserJock: so I'm guessing a C5N5N + H3O+ + CL- type form on the right.
 * somerville32 points jdong and LaserJock to #ubuntu-science
<LaserJock> jdong: oh freaking heck, right. I was thinking a 5-memebered ring ... it's been a while
<zul> whoosh...
<zul> straight over my head
<jdong> LaserJock: hehe, no worries, it's stuff that you wish to shove out of your memory as soon as possible ;-)
<persia> joejaxx: 1) You have to be able to generate a package diff against whatever version the user happens to have installed (which may not be the latest previous), 2) you have to do this without downloading the entire thing to the user workation, 3) you have to do this without bloating the archives, and 4) you have to do this without requiring more processing power from the mirror hosts.
<LaserJock> jdong: well, supposedly next fall I could be teaching gen chem so I'm gonna have to "refresh"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you won't have graduated by then?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, and hopefully with a job
<joejaxx> persia: oh ok
<joejaxx> yeah
<jdong> LaserJock: sounds awesome :)
<zul> LaserJock: you could work for canonical ;)
<jdong> LaserJock: you gonna accept MOTU merges as a form of extra credit? ;-)
<LaserJock> zul: yes, but I'd like to think I'd do something with my PhD ;-)
<LaserJock> jdong: hehe, yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if I could get away with that
<zul> LaserJock: you could also drive a taxi
<ajmitch> or work at mcdonalds
<LaserJock> merge all chemistry software for 50 extra points
<LaserJock> zul, ajmitch : no, I think I'd be working for Canonical before that
<zul> ajmitch: that would be beneath him
 * persia thinks driving taxis is fun
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what, canonical is barely above mcdonalds?
<LaserJock> zul: I don't know, people at McDonalds in San Fransisco make about as much as me
<LaserJock> ajmitch: pretty much ;-)
<zul> heh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am about to do a science one does that count? :P
<LaserJock> yep
<joejaxx> :D
 * LaserJock gives joejaxx a gold star for the day
<joejaxx> :D
<LaserJock> oh stink!!!
<LaserJock> the Golden Ponies!
<LaserJock> I totally forgot
<gene6482> could somebody help me try to patch a kernel?
<joejaxx> i am working on gcx at the moment
<gene6482> i asked in the main channel but was told to come here
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how could you forget?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't know. I remember around RC but forgot
<ajmitch> truly sad
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<LaserJock> *remembered
<superm1_> gene6482, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelPatches
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<gene6482> superm1: thanks
 * somerville32 screams!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> k, I'm off for home
<superm1_> gene6482, and then after you go through that, you may end up here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<LaserJock> bbiab and I'll work on the Golden Ponies
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D :P
<bddebian> Later LaserJock
<joejaxx> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<Hobbsee> hiya!
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :D
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<ScottK2> Heya Hobbsee
<bddebian> Heya ScottK2
<gene6482> superm1: i've compiled the kernel, and it works, but it's related to an open bug report and i wasn't sure how to go about getting it implemented (so everyone with my problem won't have to manually compile the kernel themselves
<gene6482> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/136469
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136469 in linux-source-2.6.22 "toshiba p100 series dsdt acpi error no sound, works with acpi turned off." [Medium,Triaged]
<jdong> LaserJock: thanks for all your help man :) you're the best
<bddebian> Bah, LaserJock can't leave, I need python help :-)
<ScottK2> Heya bddebian
<persia> gene6482: Is the patch put in the bug an hour ago correct?
<StevenK> bddebian: More people than LaserJock know Python
<ScottK2> bddebian: What is it?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm sure you'll figure it out :)
 * StevenK chuckles
<superm1_> gene6482, /j #ubuntu-kernel
<bddebian> This is from scratch though :-(
<superm1_> gene6482, they are the ones that will be making the final call about what's included in StableReleaseUpdates for kernels
<bddebian> ScottK2: I'm trying to package up all the Thousand Parsec crap
<persia> StevenK: Speaking of Python: what is your opinion of a dictionary in which some definitions are tuples and other definitions are embedded dictionaries?
<ajmitch> bddebian: if it's crap, why are you trying to package it?
<ScottK2> OK.  Dunow what that is.
<bddebian> I already did libtpproto but I did the C++ lib and I need the python lib :-(
<ScottK2> Dunno even
<gene6482> persia: it's a little bit up from there, it's a change in a specific file that unbreaks our sound
<bddebian> ajmitch: It's for the Debian games team.  I was asked for assistance :)
<ScottK2> bddebian: You might ask on #debian-python on OFTC.  They're reasonably nice there.
<persia> gene6482: The kernel team is subscribed.  If you can post your specific experience, the patch used to address the bug, and your testing to ensure there isn't a regression somewhere else, the kernel team will see it.  If you want to discuss it, #ubuntu-kernel is indeed the best place for discussion.
<ScottK2> bddebian: You might even get POX_ to upload it for you.
<gene6482> thanks persia
<bddebian> ScottK2: I guess I'll try that, thanks
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yay, the two things work fine when built with icedtea, and run with icedtea. However, they die horribly (abort) when run with Java 6... should I remove the Sun Java option from the dependencies?
<Fujitsu> Or am I doing something wrong when building?
<gene6482> on a side note, i'd like to help contribute more, but i don't really know all that much, is there any sort of motu mentoring program?
<somerville32> gene6482, Sure is! :)
<persia> gene6482: There is, but the queue is a bit long.  I'd suggest just jumping in, and asking questions here or via email to ubuntu-motu-mentors@l.u.c if you get stuck.
<joejaxx> bddebian: do you remember what the Makefile in the docs directory is for? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/gcx_0.9.11-1ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff.txt
<jdong> Fujitsu: eep that sounds nasty... is it using a java compatibility level?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Noo idea.
<somerville32> crimsun, How is the love coming?
<jdong> Fujitsu: (and I'm not comfortable with just saying icedtea only this time... it's demonstrating faulty bytecode if ti doesn't run with the java 6 runtime)
<bddebian> joejaxx: I don't think I touched that
<joejaxx> bddebian: ok
<joejaxx> because it is in the ubuntu modified patch for .8
<somerville32> LaserJock, Can you do bug 160314 for me?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160314 in xfce4-session "xfce4-session: merge new Debian version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160314
<somerville32> gpocentek, You around? :)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: the sponsors are subscribed, no?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, yup.
<Fujitsu> jdong: java: xcb_xlib.c:50: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed.
<Fujitsu> Seen anything like that before?
<superm1_> somerville32, there is a canonical all hands meeting going on this week so i suspect finding archive admins will be a challenge
<jdong> Fujitsu: oh god not the whole xlib locking thing again.
<persia> gene6482: If you're having difficultly knowing where to start, just ask here: generally we've some extra work we're happy to point at, or can guide you in finding bugs if you know what you want to do.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, seen it widespread ot just on Java
<jdong> Fujitsu: has something to do with how agressively X enforices some lock, I guess ask an X guru what it really means :)
<Fujitsu> Works fine on icedtea 7, and I'm trying Java 5 now.
<somerville32> superm1_, It just needs a sponsor, no?
 * superm1_ looks closer at the bug.  
<superm1_> for some reason i thought you were asking someone to release it from NEW.  my bad
<persia> somerville32: If it just needs a sponsor, sticking it queue should be sufficient.  It might take a little while, but will get uploaded.  Asking for specific sponsorship just elevates the channel traffic.
<somerville32> persia, And disturb the chemistry tutoring and discussion of car accidents? :P
<persia> somerville32: Right.  The channel is for discussion of things currently in the mind of those interested in the universe component.  The queue is for upload requests.
<Fujitsu> jdong: So it's probably not an icedtea bug?
<jdong> Fujitsu: hmm I wouldn't think it's an icedtea bug....
<minghua> Fujitsu: That's a well know bug -- Java doesn't work well with XCB-based xlib.
<jdong> Fujitsu: it might technically be a bug (sloppy locking of some sort) in binary java?
<minghua> s/know/known/
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> I don't think the bytecode could cause that.
<Fujitsu> And with Java 5 I get a class version error, but I presume that's intended behaviour.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, the java stack is likely too old
<jdong> Fujitsu: which means you should probably be alt-depping on icedtea or java6 (but since java6 doesn't woork.....)
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> I'll leave java6 in for now.
<jdong> hmm well since java6 doesn't work, how about we dep on icedtea and have the launcher explicitly ask for java7 with environment override option?
<jdong> like what I did to Azureus's launcher
<Fujitsu> Ah.
 * Fujitsu looks at it.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<jdong> alt-depping on a nonfuntional java stack is a bit silly
<jdong> and confusing to the user
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<jdong> I wish we had a HIG guideline of how to communicate to the user alternatives-related problems like this
<jdong> Ideally, it'd be nice if the "additional information" type balloon messages were permanently stored and accesible via some event viewer like UI
<jdong> so users can refer back to the message if required later
<jdong> for example, like iwth xserver-xgl, it tells the user "you can disable it by touching ~/.config/blahblah" -- who's gonna remember that? does the user have to get out a sticky note and write that down? :)
<Fujitsu> At the moment, it checks various Java-related environment variables, then uses the one in $PATH otherwise. Should I remove the $PATH check entirely, or just check for java7 beforehand?
<Fujitsu> jdong: The update-notifier bubbles?
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, like the lightbulb one that tells you to restart firefox, or log out, etc.
<jdong> it would be nice for communicating gotchas/post-install config for packages
<bddebian> StevenK: So were you offering to play pyhton packaging mentor? :-)
<StevenK> I was not. I was merely commenting that other people besides LaserJock known Python
<Fujitsu> jdong: Do I leave the attempt at using $PATH in?
<somerville32> bddebian, I'm pretty okay with python packaging.
<jdong> Fujitsu: I'd have it check for (1) PKGNAME_JAVA environment variable (2) hardcoded icedtea7 path (3) $PATH
<jdong> in that order
<gene6482> could somebody help me get started with packaging, i'd love to help get more software in to the distro
<bddebian> Nah, we have too much already ;-)
<gene6482> i'm reading the wiki right now
<Fujitsu> jdong: It already checks for JAVACMD, JAVA_HOME, etc.
<jdong> Fujitsu: ah, ok, then amke sure those checks get first priority, then continue #2/#3 :)
<Fujitsu> Oh, PKGNAME as in not literal, oops.
<jdong> right
<bddebian> somerville32: Great, you're it :-)
<Fujitsu> I was thinking that was another thing like JAVACMD or whatever.
<jdong> well, yeah, similar, but per-package override
<somerville32> :D
<jdong> so if a power user thinks he has a better Java stack for the job, he can have a way to override, apart from editing the launcher
<joejaxx>  https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/joystick_20051019-1ubuntu4.MERGE.debdiff.txt
<joejaxx> can anyone tell me if i did that right?
<jdong> aah my battery is gonna die any second, time for me to disapear :)
<Fujitsu> Bye jdong.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<somerville32> jdong, much love! ttyl
<joejaxx> there was a nmu in debian so now the versioning has the .1
<joejaxx> so i made my upload 1ubuntu4
<jdong> no problem, you guys rock :)
<s1024kb> persia: Good morning
<ajmitch> joejaxx: no
<ajmitch> -1.1ubuntu1
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that is supposed to be like that?
<ajmitch> yes, -1.1 is still greater than -1ubuntu4
<somerville32> -1.1ubuntu is higher than -1ubuntu4
<joejaxx> ajmitch: when are we supposed to do things like this? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/160299
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160299 in ubuntu "Please merge carpaltunnel 0.0.9-0.1 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New]
<joejaxx> ref: to the changelog on that bug
<ajmitch> that's just a special case, due to the mix of evil native & debian versioning
<joejaxx> oh ok
<bddebian> Damnit, I don't know what to name all these stupid packages
 * ajmitch isn't seeing what the merge is there, either
<TheMuso> ajmitch: are you processing stuff in uus currently?
<joejaxx> sajfor which?
<joejaxx> gah
<joejaxx> ajmitch: for which*
<somerville32> Is there any motu teams that I could help out?
<TheMuso> somerville32: The MOTU team? :p
<somerville32> lol
<ajmitch> TheMuso: no
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ok. I'm assuming joejaxx asked for some help with something...
<ajmitch> joejaxx: what new version of carpaltunnel was there to merge, given that everything was based on the same version anyway?
<somerville32> TheMuso, :P
<bddebian> somerville32: Debian Games Team :)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I was just answering some version questions
<somerville32> bddebian, Thats a ubuntu team?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: it is on merges.ubuntu.com/
<bddebian> somerville32: Indirectly ;-)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: you trust everything there?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: ah ok
<somerville32> bddebian, How do I get started?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that is what they said to use :)
<joejaxx> as a list of need to be merged packages
<ajmitch> joejaxx: carpaltunnel hasn't been touched for 18 months in debian
<joejaxx> needed*
<ajmitch> there's nothing to merge there
 * TheMuso will process uus in a bit.
<joejaxx> ok
<ajmitch> all you did was add a changelog entry :)
<somerville32> Gah. I have a million lp tabs open and they all start with the letter B :(
<somerville32> So many bugs, so little time
<bddebian> somerville32: Check out http://wiki.debian.org/Games
<persia> somerville32: bddebian If you look on the wiki, you'll find that the Debian Games Team officially supercedes the Ubuntu Games Team, and so is a true merged team.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol so i did that work for nothing?
<bddebian> persia: Aye
<joejaxx> fun
<ajmitch> joejaxx: what work?
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> ajmitch: working on the package :)
<ajmitch> again, what work?
<joejaxx> i hope the others i did are not like that
<joejaxx> that is what i mean
<joejaxx> :(
<ajmitch> it's ok, TheMuso will take care of them
 * ajmitch isn't touching u-u-s
<joejaxx> i just marked the bug invalid
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Before, I could have just said, sure I will when I get to it and left it at that. Now that I am an uus admin, I need to actually care about the uus queue, and process it.
<TheMuso> :)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: exactly
<ajmitch> at one point I was a uus admin for some reason
<ajmitch> but never did anything, so removed myself
<persia> ajmitch: You were active in sponsoring back then :)
<ajmitch> persia: back when I knew what I was doing
<somerville32> Drinking from a straw is fun.
 * persia suspects ajmitch has been drinking the water again
<ajmitch> persia: actually I am drinking water right now
<LaserJock> I used to do uus :/
<somerville32> I would if I was a motu
<Burgundavia> u-u-s?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<persia> Burgundavia: It's the list of fixed bugs that we need to upload.  Try some :)
<Burgundavia> ahh, that
<Burgundavia> persia: I am not  MOTU
<ajmitch> not yet, he means
<ajmitch> even jono wants to go for MOTU
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> *everybody* wants to go for MOTU
<LaserJock> only the insane ones get ther ;-)
<LaserJock> *there
<ajmitch> s/get/stay/ ;)
<slangasek> gibber gibber
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hehe, so true
<bddebian> heh
<persia> Burgundavia: No?  I thought you were from ages and ages and ages ago.  My apologies.
<ajmitch> persia: he's been a long-time doc team person, and into marketing
<ajmitch> so you've heard plenty from Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> persia: I have exactly one upload to the archive: a sync of Inkscape from the hoary days
 * LaserJock jumps into a stack trace
<Burgundavia> i have been around since the beginning of Ubuntu (not no-name-yet.com, though)
<ajmitch> back in the days of mataro
<persia> Burgundavia: Right.  it's that you seemed to be an upload person back in Hoary days, and I just assumed that you'd kept at it :)
<Burgundavia> indeed, with bags of death and red red love
<Burgundavia> I love watching kiko cringe at the thoughts of red red love
<ajmitch> sevilla was a good improvement then?
<bddebian> red red love?
<Burgundavia> barcelona was actually a nicer city and the conferences were different
<ScottK2> Would someone who is in UUS, please unsubscribe UUS from Bug 159330
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159330 in courier "Merge courier 0.57.0 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159330
<persia> ScottK: Got it.  Thanks for pointing it out.
<LaserJock> ScottK2: you're not in UUS?
<Burgundavia> bddebian: a yogurt drink. Red Red Love was one of the flavours (and the only I remembered)
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> ScottK2:  is awfully active for someone who wasn't going to be so active.. ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, well I'm on Ubuntu break so ...
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> gone, but never absent
 * joejaxx wonders how many of his merges did not actually have to be merged
<ScottK2> bddebian: Not currently, no.
<ScottK2> err LaserJock, not currently, no (part of the not so active)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you were leaving IRC as well, weren't you?
<LaserJock> ScottK2: ah, right, I think I did that too
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ummm, yeah ... sure ... um
<bddebian> somerville32: Do you know offhand of a python package that uses debhelper but uses setup.py?
<crimsun> well, b43 in 2.6.24-rc1-git14 certainly beats the pants off bcm43xx, but it oopses if I attempt to reassociate :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: that shouldn't be too bad
<crimsun> err, -ECHANNEL
<LaserJock> crimsun: no kidding, that's like real development sounding
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ScottK2> bddebian: pysol might do it.
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye but I need an example :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: why?
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Because this sincerest form of flattery is plaigerism
<bddebian> cause I'm doing one from scratch and I've never done it with a python package before :)
<LaserJock> you should just get rid of make and do python setup.py stuff
<ScottK2> You're an academic, you should know that ;)
<LaserJock> ScottK2: so true
<LaserJock> except it doesn't work so well for PhDs
<LaserJock> they get kind grumpy about that
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they call it research
<bddebian> ScottK2: Oh, yeah, pysol is nice and clean ;-P
<ajmitch> you know, stealing from a few is plagiarism, stealing from many is research
<persia> ajmitch: The difference is that the synthesis is usually considered creative.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not exactly
<joejaxx> ajmitch: does this look correct now? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~joejaxx/ubuntu/merges/joystick_20051019-1.1ubuntu1.MERGE.debdiff.txt
<ajmitch> joejaxx: depends if the patch has been pushed to debian
<joejaxx> ajmitch: would it not be in the new version if it was?
<somerville32> bddebian, snowballz
<persia> joejaxx: That looks correct, although as ajmitch says, it's good to get the patch back.  Also, there's an annoying issue with Saitek controllers (the two-hand type) not being recognized correctly, if you want to get deeper.
<ajmitch> joejaxx: sure, depends on what got into -1.1
<persia> ajmitch: The segfault patch can go back, but debian doesn't split out inputattach, so the rest has to stay around for a while...
<somerville32> bddebian, "Take command of your army of penguins as you blaze your path to victory! March through snow laden forests to conqueror new frontears and grow your small army."
<ajmitch> persia: that's what I assumed
<ajmitch> but I'm not in u-u-s, so it's not my position to comment ;)
<somerville32> bddebian, It's a snowy world you don't want to miss!
<persia> ajmitch: You're still in -dev, so it is your position to comment: you're just not promising to upload stuff.
<LaserJock> hmm, I've forgoten how much it sucks having to have a sponsor
<ajmitch> persia: I'll have to correct that
<TheMuso> LaserJock: yeah, you are lucky enough to have access to the whole archive.
<persia> LaserJock: It's not so bad when the queues are working well.  I remember one bit where the average time from my bug attach to upload was <3 minutes (with the winner at 100 seconds)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
 * TheMuso thinks he knows what ajmitch means when he is going to correct that.
<crimsun> ah, yes.  The magical poll(u-u-s) period.
<LaserJock> persia: I was actually looking at Debian
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you do?
<LaserJock> I was pondering actually working on some bugs/packages in Debian
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I think I do, yes.
<LaserJock> but then all the effort ... is it worth it?
<persia> LaserJock: That's not a queue with a good answer.  Send bugs to the BTS, and join colaborative teams if they are open, but sponsored NMUs are destined for a special purgatory.
<bddebian> somerville32: :-)
<LaserJock> persia: bug attach to upload was < 3 min. ?!?!
<LaserJock> how they heck did you manage that?
<LaserJock> *the
<gene6482> ok, so i decided to grab a program that's been requested to be packaged but i need some help with the rules file, can anyone help?
 * somerville32 wants to make the top ten uploader list as a non-motu member.
<ajmitch> somerville32: well you've passed me already
<persia> LaserJock: Average.  During feisty one of the sponsors wrote a LP poll for new attachments from a shortlist of contributors, and was quick on the uploads for two or three days before finding something better to do.
<LaserJock> but how do you even do that
<bddebian> somerville32: rules doesn't do setup.py in snowballz
<persia> somerville32: Not hard.  If you really want to boost, take a look at the 639 packages not in Debian, update to latest upstream, get them lintian/linda clean, and add watch files.  Hard to compete with statistics like that.
<LaserJock> download source package, apply diff, build new source package, pbuilder, test install, upload
<LaserJock> all in < 3min?
<persia> LaserJock: Well, no.  Some things broke, and we had to fix them.  That's one of the reasons the poll script was stopped: it was too efficient.
<somerville32> bddebian, most don't
<joejaxx> persia: where is that list at?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: he didn't say they were *tested* uploads
<ScottK2> bddebian: I don't recall if pysol is fully compliant with current Python policy.  I've just bugfixed it, not tried to upgrade it.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I *assumed* they were :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're in MOTU here
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure I've never uploaded anything I haven't built
<persia> joejaxx: http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html, in the "Not in Sid" section.
<LaserJock> and fairly sure I've test installed them all as well
<persia> Fujitsu: Help!  I don't see what I expect.
<joejaxx> persia: it says zero packages LOl
<persia> LaserJock: I also do it that way.  I'm very grateful to the speed uploader, but I'm not sure it was best practice then, and I'm sure it isn't now.
<persia> joejaxx: Yeah, well, it's currently having a fit.  That's the URL that would normally show it.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: The Debian Python Modules and Python Application Packaging Teams are very open to Ubuntu contributors.
<somerville32> crimsun, Are you still working on that other package?
<gene6482> i'm working with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/95692
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95692 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Freenet" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<crimsun> somerville32: err, which?
<joejaxx> gene6482: freenet :D
<crimsun> somerville32: I've been fighting b43 for a bit, but I haven't been packaging tonight
<persia> gene6482: You'll want to assign yourself then, so nobody else tries to do it.
<gene6482> persia: ok
<somerville32> crimsun, ah. Do you have time to sponsor my upload yet? :]
<crimsun> somerville32: the xfce4-session one?
<somerville32> crimsun, Aye.
<persia> somerville32: There is also ubuntu-main-sponsors :)
<somerville32> persia, crimsun is a u-m-s
<crimsun> I'll take a look now, just have to update
<somerville32> crimsun, k, thank you.
<persia> somerville32: Right.  Just not the only one.  Best to use the team.
<somerville32> persia, I'm looking to get my packages uploaded quickly as possible so that I'm not trying to get a million uploaded at once.
<joejaxx> somerville32: that is why there is a queue :D
<persia> somerville32: I understand.  Still, it distracts people who might be doing something else.  Better to use the teams, and people will upload 5-10 packages when they do a sweep.  That way everyone can organise their time well.
<ajmitch> a queue is generally better than asking every core-dev every 2 minutes
<joejaxx> are there any other packaging i can do other than merges?
<joejaxx> :)
<crimsun> unmetdeps, bitesize, etc.
<crimsun> err, sorry, those being LP tags
<joejaxx> all the bitesize ones have debdiffs already
<persia> joejaxx: 'packaging' is also often good.
<joejaxx> well the ones on /TODO
<persia> joejaxx: You might also try 'patch' which often doesn't mean debdiff
<persia> joejaxx: /TODO isn't a complete list.  Explore https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unmetdeps (change the last word for different tags)
<joejaxx> ok
<gene6482> persia: from what i've read, it's just a java program so is there really a makefile (again, sorry, i'm a noob)
<crimsun> somerville32: the translation (*.po) hunks seem unnecessary
<somerville32> crimsun, ack
<somerville32> crimsun, Do you want me to cut them out or will you?
<crimsun> somerville32: I recommend using filterdiff(1)
<crimsun> (part of the patchutils package if you don't have it installed)
<joejaxx> gene6482: you are packaging it?
<gene6482> joejaxx: i'm trying to, but i'm pretty new to this (this is my first packaging), so I downloaded the source, i'm following the instructions in the wiki, but it says there really isn't an install so to speak, just untar into a folder and then run the script to run the program (java required)
<pwnguin> gene6482: then the program should probably be modified to run ala lsb if it doesnt already work
<jdong> for your first package you chose something Java? :D
<gene6482> i didn't know what to pick, if there's something that would be easier to start with, i could take a look at that, i just want to learn, and be able to contribute
<jdong> hehe, that was a joke. Java tends to have this notoriety around here of being a big tangled mess of voodoo magic.
<ajmitch> that's because it is
<Fujitsu> persia: Looking now.
<Fujitsu> Ah, it's because ftp-master is down.
<Fujitsu> Can't find the removals.
<LaserJock> jdong: voodoo magic? I was thinking spawn of the devil but I guess that works
<gene6482> well it doesn't really need to be built, just untarred, so would the rules file just tell it to untar and then change the permissions, or am i way off
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
<jdong> so it's a binary?
<jdong> by "binary" I mean compiled bytecode.
 * jdong can't wait for someone to say Java bytecode != binary so I can punch him :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Should be back to normal in a couple of minutes, except for removals not being checked.
<LaserJock> jdong: but Java bytecode != binary, what were you thinking? :p
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<jdong> haha
<ajmitch> jdong: he's right, you know
<jdong> ajmitch: lol yes he is, which is why I'm irritated ;-)
<jdong> but for the point of the question I was raising, you guys know what I meant ;-)
<LaserJock> woah, only one merge with my name on it
<jdong> only I get to point out superfluous technicalities!
<gene6482> i downloaded the wrong thing (i'm an idiot) i'll try something else i guess
<crimsun> for computer geeks, there are no superfluous technicalities!
<imbrandon> wow the house is trying to impeach the vp ...
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ? lol
<joejaxx> imbrandon: link?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: this is news? or something from about 3 years ago that's been dragged up on digg yet again?
<imbrandon> http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/11/05/house-to-vote-on-cheney-impeachment/
<LaserJock> he hasn't even shot anybody lately ;-)
<ajmitch> so the news from 3 years ago is going to a vote, fun
<jdong> crimsun: amen to that :)
<imbrandon> tomarrows the vote, i doubt it will fly , as much as i would like to see the current administration out , 7 years into a term isnt the time to start
 * LaserJock yells "4 more years!" and does a merge
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ouch debian archive problems too looks like, fun fun fun day
<tonyyarusso> Is there anything real being voted on this time around?
<tonyyarusso> Only thing I've seen is school board....
 * ajmitch doesn't particularly care about it :)
<nand`> hi!
<joejaxx> hi
<nand`> third straight REVU day!
<nand`> (from my timezone point of view)
<nand`> I request a review of my package ike please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ike
<nand`> (apart the copyright notices issue)
<bddebian> Ah ha, the POS builds.  I have no idea if it is actually "right" though :-)
<somerville32> bddebian, Is that what you were trying to get setup.py and rules working together?
<bddebian> somerville32: Aye
<bddebian> With python-support
<somerville32> bddebian, I'll have to take a look
 * LaserJock notes he has not a single cookie in the house
<LaserJock> unless of course you count the virtual kind
<LaserJock> which aren't any good to eat
<crimsun> bug 160381
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160381 in gnump3d "uh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160381
<joejaxx> crimsun: lol
<crimsun> /brilliant/ summary.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I agree.
<gene6482> i'm going to try something else
<imbrandon> anyone here got a quick and dirty for importing a svn co into a bzr branch ? isnt there a bzr svn-import svn://......
<persia> gene6482: Rather than starting with a new package, I'd suggest starting with a bugfix.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize might have some that are pretty good to start.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I thought bzr-svn did that
<LaserJock> maybe not
<imbrandon> it might, i havent tried it /me looks
<LaserJock> anybody know if seb128 is ok with people merging Gnome stuff?
<persia> LaserJock: Ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Will it start tracking removals again once Debian is sorted again?
<gene6482> well i'll have to try again later, i have to go now, but thanks or the help, it certainly helps build even more respect for you guys, i kind of took all the packaging for granted.  I think i'll have to learn more to get started, but it seems that with people like you around i should be able to contribute
<persia> joejaxx, somerville32: In case you didn't guess from context, http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html is back: the "Not in Sid" list is likely a good set of candidates for a quick upstream update (although some should be dropped), if you want to boost your upload count.  Just make sure you get them lintian/linda clean and add watch files if they are missing.
<somerville32> persia, Thanks
<joejaxx> persia: thanks
<persia> Just remember to check the PTS entry: some of those were once in Debian, or are in experimental, and so need special care: the best targets are the ones that were never in Debian.
<somerville32> Can someone please review my package (it is an easy one to review and only needs one advocate): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pyneighborhood
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> wait
<persia> somerville32: Didn't that get in for gutsy?  Why does it need a REVU?
<joejaxx> that application is not in gutsy?
<joejaxx> somerville32: i thought that was in already
<minghua> Hmm.  http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html is empty for me.
<somerville32> persia, ubuntu2
<joejaxx> minghua: refresh
<joejaxx> :)
<somerville32> Hence why it only needs one advocate
<persia> somerville32: That just looks like a patch to me: why not stick a debdiff in a bug, and add it to the sponsors queue?
<somerville32> persia, I suppose I could that but I figured someone could do it real quick :P
<TheMuso> somerville32: I would debdiff and add to queue. The queue will be processed soon. I intend to get around to it.
<persia> somerville32: REVU isn't the right place for it, and it's harder to review and update from REVU, as one has to spend more time to identify the differences.  A bug is better.
 * persia archives pyneighborhood as not-for-REVU
<somerville32> persia, thanks
<persia> Err..  Rather, I can't archive right now, so I don't.  I'll hide it later if nobody else hides it first.
<TheMuso> persia: I'll do it.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<somerville32> I hate using apt* - it brinngs my computer to a halt :(
<somerville32> bddebian, wb :)
<TheMuso> persia: done
<bddebian2> @#%#%
<persia> bddebian: What keyboard layout is that?  I could understand @#$%^ or "#$%&, but @#%#% just seems odd.
<bddebian> persia: That was random qwerty swearing :-)
<Fujitsu> persia: Only once I poke it, but I'll do so once I see the email.
 * persia suspects US style pc-104
<bddebian> OK, is section python-libs valid or should it be just python?
<bddebian> persia: Oh, aye
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  Thanks.
<persia> bddebian: Ask lintian, but I'd suggest python
<LaserJock> ajmitch: -desktop reminds me that I was working on a MOTU logo
<LaserJock> should have some sort of castle greyskull logo for MC
<persia> LaserJock: Can we actually do anything with CG?  I thought that was extra-non-free., or would this be considered satire?
<LaserJock> well, "similar"
<LaserJock> for the MOTU I've got a sword thingy
<LaserJock> trying to stick with the theme
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: MOTU SWAT has a sword.
 * persia likes logos, and wants more LP badges
<persia> Fujitsu: What does MOTU SWAT do?  (e.g. what would I be committing to if I wanted the badge)
<joejaxx> persia: universe security
<persia> Hmmm....  Now I need to do cost/benefit, as it's not clear...
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<joejaxx> persia: lol
<superm1> persia, you could always steal their badge and make your own team with the same badge :)
<ajmitch> you have to do stuff to be in a team?
<persia> superm1: I've seen a couple people do that, but I don't approve of the practice.
<persia> ajmitch: Only if your nick isn't "ajmitch"
<superm1> woah really people actually do that?
<superm1> i was just kidding, seems rather unethical
<ajmitch> persia: it's really why I should leave some more teams
<persia> superm1: Go trolling for people with > 20 badges - some of the teams are rather poorly defined...
 * ajmitch cut down on a few
 * persia suspects ajmitch will end up in all the teams anyway due to teams belonging to teams
<ajmitch> it won't happen
<imbrandon> heh
 * Hobbsee has lots of teams.
 * Hobbsee likes teams.
<Hobbsee> oooh, shiny
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lololol
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Fujitsu need to pay you royalties
<joejaxx> lol
 * ajmitch finds a shiny pocket watch & dangles it in front of Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: So I do, so I do.
<Hobbsee> oh exelent
 * Hobbsee puts her hand out
 * Fujitsu wonders why all the new ~motu members are eternal.
<Hobbsee> hand 'em over, Fujitsu :)
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: new ~motu members?
<persia> Fujitsu: To prevent people from leaving, obviously...
 * ajmitch is an indirect motu member
<superm1> Fujitsu, assumingly so that we are allowed to take breaks?
<superm1> and come back without losing status
 * ajmitch thinks that everyone should just get an expiry date
<persia> superm1: It's not about status, it's about activity.  If you take a break, and your memship expires, and you don't get around to touching launchpad to restore it, a quick mail to MOTU Council should have it back in a day or so.
 * persia agrees
<superm1> well i am an eternal member, so i dont have to worry :)
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't we be operating on the principle of least privilege?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: depends
<persia> Fujitsu: Absolutely.  I'd even suggest the timeframe should be short: I would expect to need an ACK when I return from my times away (and they don't tend to be that long, comparatively)
<persia> Hobbsee: Depends on?  Most privileges for you, and least for everyone else (except ajmitch, who should be stapled to privileges)? :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> dpeneds on how hard it is to get them back
<Fujitsu> We have members of ~motu that I've never even heard of.;
<Hobbsee> see teh whole \sh fiasco.
<joejaxx> is \sh around?
<joejaxx> he has some merges i wanted to ask him about
<Hobbsee> dont think so
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, I know, it's a repeating cycle.  If someone wants to help, and previously had access, MC will likely not oppose without a good reason.
<ajmitch> persia: why should I?
<Hobbsee> persia: except if someone else has nicked the key, gotten the passphrase, and is now pretending to be \sh
<persia> Hobbsee: HRm.  That's true, but I'd think unlikely.
<Hobbsee> tech board thought that was quite a risk
<LaserJock> so my first stab at a logo is at http://laserjock.us/files/ubuntu/motu_logo.png
<Fujitsu> Did they?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh yes
<persia> ajmitch: Because you've done lots of good work, and despite your persistent claims that you do nothiing, you tend to provide assistance to those who need it.  Further, you are a repository of living MOTU history, and an example to us all.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: When did it come up?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ages ago.  dont remember exactly
<ajmitch> persia: a repository of history is a nice way of saying a fossil ;)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> ajmitch: a prized fossil :D
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't see how it's more of a risk with quick expiry than with no expiry.  With no expiry, we're inviting the same issue without even the quick MC check.
<Hobbsee> persia: true, that.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's what I thought.
<superm1> joejaxx, as per discussion at UDS, are they quick/shorter merges?
<joejaxx> superm1: i am sorry?
<superm1> \sh's merges
<superm1> that you wanted to ask about
<persia> ajmitch: Right.  An extremely valuable item for which people will queue for hours for the benefit of proximity.
<Fujitsu> Having no expiry is just asking for trouble. The team will grow indefinitely and who knows how many compromised people we might have.
<joejaxx> oh i do not know
<joejaxx> they just looked interesting
<joejaxx> normally i do the merge then ask to upload to lp
<ajmitch> persia: your attempts at flattery disturb me
<superm1> joejaxx, well from the motu talk we had i thought the consensus was that if its a shorter merge, that debian/changelog doesn't appear to have someone tied down to, have at it
<ajmitch> they have the whiff of sarcasm
<persia> It's not just compromised members, but also people who are completely not in touch, who may no longer have an interest, yet remain in our developer count.
<joejaxx> superm1: oh ok
<persia> ajmitch: Sorry.  I'm not very good at it.
 * ajmitch checks the team settings
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that too.
<Fujitsu> I didn't see anybody making a decision that members should no longer expire. It just... happened.
 * persia wants accurate counts of developers and contributors to establish baseline metrics towards actually maintaining everything.
<LaserJock> that's weird
<ajmitch> it is strange
<persia> Fujitsu: Didn't it happen around the time the new MOTU Council procedure was started?  Who is the first indefinite member?
<Fujitsu> persia: It was at that time, yes.
<Fujitsu> It's hard to say who it was, because LP sucks and the joining dates are wrong.
 * persia suspects the TB, and the switch back & forth between -dev and -motu
<persia> Err. ~ubuntu-dev and ~motu
<Fujitsu> It was late March that the eternal members started being added.
<Fujitsu> I guess it could just be that no default expiry date was set, and they didn't bother to check.
<Fujitsu> (they == TB)
<TheMuso> So what was done when Jonathan Patric Davis was allowed back?
<persia> Hmm...  I was away then, so don't remember the discussion, but was one of the team shifts associated with the same time period?
<persia> TheMuso: "allowed"?
<TheMuso> persia: i.e he was welcomed back into MOTU, with upload rights, etc.
<Fujitsu> persia: It was around that time - I suspect that nobody ever set a default expiry on ~motu.
<ajmitch> back in a bit
<Fujitsu> Whereas ~ubuntu-dev always had it set to 2 years.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  Good.  I like "welcomed".  "allowed" made me think there was an issue in the past.  I thought that was a good example of how things should be done.
<TheMuso> persia: But I ask because I didn't know how he was welcomed back, in that was he asked anything, etc.
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't suppose you'd like to poke the MC to poke the TB?  I may lose indefinite status, but I think it would be better for all.
<persia> TheMuso: There was an email requesting access be restored, presumably validated with private communication with MC members, and access was granted.
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<Fujitsu> persia: MC seems to have admin rights now, anyway
<persia> TheMuso: As I understand it, the procedure is the same as for anyone wanting to join MOTU, just easier if you've already been MOTU.
<Fujitsu> Nobody around to poke at the moment, it would seem.
<persia> Fujitsu: That makes it easier (poking via email might work)
<Fujitsu> persia: It probably would, yes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Also raises the issue publically, etc.  Also makes the whole grumble about inactive developers reduce due to upcoming expiration.
<joejaxx> grr
<TheMuso> Netsplits galore.
<joejaxx> i never get this
<joejaxx> hth does freenode have so many netsplits?
<somerville32> love.
<persia> joejaxx: Lots of servers.
<joejaxx> sure :)
<joejaxx> but every 5-10 minutes at random times? lol
<joejaxx> maybe it is a networking issue
<pwnguin> who runs freenode?
<Hobbsee> not usually this bad
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ignoring joins/parts seems to work
<imbrandon> pwnguin, pdpc
<imbrandon> yea joins/parts on ignore works great
<imbrandon> pwnguin, http://freenode.net/pdpc.shtml
 * persia notes that ignoring joins/parts means that you may not know who is in your broadcast spce
<Fujitsu> I never ignore them unless in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-release-party, really.
<imbrandon> persia, as long as you adhear to the CoC then i dont mind whom hears what i have to type :)
<imbrandon> and if i need someone specificly i use their name
<LaserJock> I have to ignore them ATM cause I keep checking on channels if I don't ;-)
<persia> imbrandon: When the net is splitting, I tend to wait until I have >70% before saying anything worthwhile.  Perhaps this is the opposite to your concern.
<somerville32> As long as persia adheres to the COC, imbrandon doesn't mind who hears what he has to type. hmm..
<imbrandon> the only time i dont have them turned off is when i wear +T
 * tonyyarusso looks that up
<persia> LaserJock: Can you not set your channel status to ignore joins/parts whilst still displaying them?
<pwnguin> but, without join/parts, #ubuntu-laptop would be dead
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Hahah.
<somerville32> lol
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, it makes me showup on /stats p , e.g. Freenode Staffer
<LaserJock> persia: I suppose so yes, I never thought of that actually
<Fujitsu> Sounds like #ubuntu-science or #ubuntuwire or #ubuntu-directory.
<Fujitsu> Or #ubuntu-hardened
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: ... ANOTHER Ubuntu person that's FN staff?  nice.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe ubuntuwire is used, only if rarely :)
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, i have been a year or so now, dunno whom else you are speaking of
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: nalioth, jenda, ompaul, erm I think there's another
<imbrandon> ro*b
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<tonyyarusso> We kinda took over :P
<pwnguin> well, debian ran for oftc
<imbrandon> and i predate them cept nali*oth and ro*b
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> I hate how firefox steals focus
<Hobbsee> in kde, you can tell it to stop
<Hobbsee> you may bea ble to with compiz, too
<Fujitsu> I hate how Firefox.
<joejaxx> lol
<pwnguin> pdpc operates freenode, but who hosts it?
<LaserJock> hmm, odd, I just saw a prostate medicine commercial that said women shouldn't take it ...
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: /motd
<imbrandon> hosts what? each server is hosted by diffrent groups all root controled by freenode
<imbrandon> each one is in the motd
<pwnguin> true
<minghua> LaserJock: seems a sound advice to me. :-)
<pwnguin> guess i cant blame it on lance then
<StevenK> LaserJock: That isn't odd.
<pwnguin> though he was willing to take credit
<tritium> LaserJock: crap, I just gave my wife some...
<imbrandon> lol
<pwnguin> actually, i think his group runs zelazny and niven
<LaserJock> tritium!!
<imbrandon> well they are all "run" by freenode staff, if you donate a server you give them root, you only provide hardware and connection
<imbrandon> pwnguin, ^^
<tritium> Hi LaserJock :)
 * TheMuso wonders what is now responsible for detecting an eject button press from within gnome.
 * ajmitch returns
<somerville32> Grr... this is making me angry
<somerville32> pbuilder is looking for libgpg-error-dev_1.4-2ubuntu2_i386.deb when only libgpg-error-dev_1.4-2ubuntu1_i386.deb exists.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: pbuilder update?
<Fujitsu> pbuilder --kill-your-mirror-for-being-out-of-date?
<somerville32> I use a.u.c
<persia> somerville32: That's often not ideal, as it gets refreshed far too often, and so is prone to skew.  If you don't need the updates from the last 10 minutes, using a normal daily or twice-daily mirror tends to be more reliable.
<persia> (for some value of 10 minutes which is actually close to 103 for complicated reasons, but related to an hourly queue)
<somerville32> :]
<TheMuso> somerville32: Any reason why you mentioned the bug more than once in the changelog, and why did you create another bug just for that? You should have added the debdiff to the existing bug, and subscribed uus.
<TheMuso> somerville32: So for now, I suggest you re-upload the diff, with both bugs included in the changelog, so they both get closed.
<TheMuso> Will document in the bug.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Could you specify what you're talking about? :]
<TheMuso> bug 160388
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160388 in pyneighborhood "RFS: pyneighborhood (universe)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160388
 * persia agrees that it belongs in bug #107463: even just if users want to test an update locally before the buildds are done
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107463 in pyneighborhood "Decription appearing in Add/Remove applications is ridiculous" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107463
<somerville32> TheMuso, I always create a new bug. I don't want people subscribed to the bug to get mail in their inbox about it.
<persia> somerville32: That's the reason they subscribed to the bug.  They want to see the fix (often including patches)
<minghua> somerville32: Why don't you want that?
<somerville32> Because people have complained to me before
<persia> somerville32: About adding a patch to a bug?  Which bug?
 * persia prepares to complain back, only more so
<somerville32> persia, I can't remember specifically - but I know it has happened atleast twice.
<somerville32> Once by an end-user and the other time by the software maintainer
 * minghua complains too, if we are counting the numbers to make decisions.
<persia> somerville32: Well, if it happens again, please let me know.  That's part of the purpose of bugs, and as long as your patch is good, they should be relaxed.  If they are complaining about the patch, that's just normal feedback.
<persia> minghua: Which are you complaining about?
 * Hobbsee complains in general
<somerville32> persia, They were complaining about the e-mails not the patch
 * persia grumbles at hobbsee
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: how could you?
<minghua> persia: Heh.  Complaining about opening new bugs for patches.  I hope we are not really counting numbers.
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  That's just a misunderstanding on their part then.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: easily.
<ajmitch> aw
<persia> minghua: Well, more people tends to indicate general consensus, even in the presence of vocal dissenters.
<somerville32> What is the correct syntax for closing bugs via changelog?
 * minghua has never been sure about the concept of "general consensus".
<persia> somerville32: (LP: #nnnnnn) works, but I forget the official rules.
<Hobbsee> lp: #nnnn is the required part
<TheMuso_> gah brownout.
<Hobbsee> greetings, TheMuso_
<somerville32> TheMuso_, I'll remember to close them and noting the bug number twice is rather trivial.
<persia> somerville32: disagreeing with sponsors isn't the best way to get more sponsored...
<somerville32> persia, I think they should be mature enough to be able to discuss their opinion.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<persia> Good night bddebian
<somerville32> night bdmurray
<somerville32> erm
 * persia is slow
<somerville32> persia, What does this mean?:
<somerville32> W: cheese: copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate
<somerville32> nvm
<somerville32> :)
<minghua> lintian -i is always your friend.
 * somerville32 nods.
<persia> somerville32: It means that you didn't change "Author(s)" to either "Author" or "Authors" depending on the actual facts.  Calling with arguments -iIv will explain in detail.
<imbrandon> StevenK, ping
 * persia thinks it's nighttime there
<Hobbsee> likely asleep
<imbrandon> yea i forgot he was in boston
<TheMuso> Just after midnight.
<TheMuso> in Boston.
<imbrandon> err should be just after 1am there iirc
<TheMuso> Yep.
<imbrandon> midnight here
<persia> imbrandon: Just out of curiosity (and feel free not to answer), do you not sleep, or sleep days?
<somerville32> How do I install man page with cdbs?
<persia> somerville32: Use debian/package.manpages
<persia> dh_installman gets called, so man that for details
<imbrandon> persia, i normaly sleep 7am to midday localtime
<imbrandon> or close to it
<persia> imbrandon: That makes sense.  You just seem to be much closer to our timezone than most people in your geographical region :)
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> Shortly after 2am here
 * TheMuso thinks Joe's merges will be gotten through rather quickly, due to him likely forgetting to do the same thing in all merges.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Whats that?
<imbrandon> ok color me stupid but what is the diff between ARM ARMel ARM9 ARM12 XScale etc ? i've been googling for a few and dont seem to have google-foo tonight
<TheMuso> somerville32: I am processing the sponsors queue, and a merge changelog entry does not have the maintainer field change mentioned in the entry.
<persia> imbrandon: ARMN (e.g. ARM7, ARM9, etc.) indicates the ARM revision (kinda like Pentium 2 vs. Pentium 3, only not)
<imbrandon> i'm guesssing the ARM{,el} is like MIPS{,el} and something to do with endian's ?
<persia> XScale was Intel's branding of their series of ARM cores (now sold to Marvell?), which actually implemented several different ARM designs, depending on the XScale model number, and the more recent XScales are actually Intel designs that happen to execute the same instruction set, rather than actually being ARM.
<persia> ARMel is a little funny: most ARM cores can handle either big-endian or little-endian, depending on the application code, and some can switch while processing an instruction stream.  ARMel is an artificial architecture to indicate little-endian ARM code, but doesn't really correspond to specific hardware in most cases (although it often corresponds to external software)
<persia> Of course, all that could be wrong, as I'm not actually an expert on processor nomenclature.
<imbrandon> persia, how compatable are these though, e.g. if i setup a buildd on a ARM12 , could the resulting binary run on a ARM9 or XScale ?
<imbrandon> or will there have to be hella diffrent buildd env's
<imbrandon> i mean like in x86 you can always go lowest common denom, eg 386
<imbrandon> or some such
<persia> imbrandon: Depends on your compiler flags, and optimisations.  That's like asking me if you compile something on a Core 2 Duo, could the resulting binary run on a Pentium III or Athlon XP
<imbrandon> true, i ment more so like compiling for a generic 386 on core2 would still run on a p2
<imbrandon> e.g that there is some generic to it
<persia> imbrandon: I wouldn't compile for less than ARM7, as there's not much product left.  A few ARM5 cores are around, but increasingly less.
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  With the right set of flags, you can create a portable binary.  You just need to get the flags right (and I can't really help with that)
<imbrandon> np, i can get past the learning curve as long as i know i'm not chasing a pipe dream
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Some people don't mention the change, which I think is probably OK.
<persia> imbrandon: I've a couple XScale machines around (PXA255 and PXA265), so would be happy to test for that side of things :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Like, we don't mention `updated changelog' in the changelog, as it's an implied change.
<imbrandon> persia, cool
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Hmm yeah I guess, but its done more often than not.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, probably for filler :)
 * somerville32 nods
<persia> Fujitsu: If we're not to keep it, we should have a general statement to that effect, and drop them all.  Having it be inconsistent doesn't really appeal to me.
 * TheMuso agrees with persia 
<somerville32> We're ubuntu, not debian :P
<Fujitsu> persia: Agreed.
<imbrandon> debian is inconsistant? never
<somerville32> lol
 * Hobbsee blogs.
 * imbrandon faints
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Woah, what do you think you are doing?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> http://community.livejournal.com/coworkers_suck/309678.html
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: attempting to get rid of frustration before i go in there, and deal with said coworker.
<somerville32> hehe
 * Hobbsee will probably *also* mentoin said coworker to boss.
<Hobbsee> (again)
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Is it a he or she?
<somerville32> You use two different pronouns
<Hobbsee> she
<somerville32> (or two different genders)
<Hobbsee> first is a she, boss is a he
<somerville32> So you're your bosses supervisor? lol
 * Hobbsee doesnt see where she makes a male reference.
<somerville32> Point 5 under "If I'm your supervisor"
<Hobbsee> sorry, s/boss/store manager/
<somerville32> "Start chatting to your friend from another store, on his break, for half an hour"
<Hobbsee> 5.  Start chatting to your friend from another store, on his break, for half an hour
<Hobbsee> the friend is mail
 * Hobbsee edits
<Hobbsee> er,male
<somerville32> Ah.
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Use your pointy stick of doom.
<imbrandon> wow looking at ARM Evaulation boards i found a place that makes/sells ISA ( Yes ISA ) USB Cards
<LaserJock> cool
<persia> imbrandon: EISA just takes too much power :)
<somerville32> I'm holding a USB thinger that has little ports that apparently plug into the motherboard
<LaserJock> my boss finally gave up like a year ago on insisting that we got computers with ISA slots
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> http://www.simtec.co.uk/products/EB1161ISA/
<persia> LaserJock: What were you using them for?  low-bandwidth data collection?  Vintage analog synthesizers?
<LaserJock> when you have easily $10k invested in ISA boards it's no fun to switch
<LaserJock> persia: *all* of our data collection boards were ISA
<LaserJock> then I told him we weren't going to be able to get machines to run them
<LaserJock> so we got one PCI
 * persia likes ISA for data collection: very easy protocol (lousy for things like disk controllers, video controllers, etc.)
<LaserJock> now everything is PCI-E
<LaserJock> so I got a USB one last time
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i wish.
<LaserJock> but the USB is a bit slow for data collection it seems
<LaserJock> took me $500 to figure that out though ;-)
<somerville32> no!! My stupid build that took me 30 minutes dies in the last phase :/
<imbrandon> LaserJock, firewire ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I've never used it
<LaserJock> I've got a lab full of macs and we've never used firewire :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> somerville32: ouch, for huge builds like that I liked to first test in a pbuilder login and use dpkg-buildpackage -nc generously ;-)
<ajmitch> somerville32: only 30 minutes?
<imbrandon> LaserJock,  i used it for the first time reciently to get data ( recorded TV ) off my DVR from comcast :)
<jdong> and do a final build once I'm confident it'll work in a real pbuilder
<somerville32> dh_installman -pcheese
<somerville32> cheese.1: No such file or directory at /usr/bin/dh_installman line 120.
<somerville32> I don't understand why it failed.
<somerville32> oh wait
<somerville32> I do
<somerville32> I only put cheese.1 in the manpages file. I should have put debian/cheese.1
<persia> imbrandon: firewire isn't good for data collection unless you have a dedicated data collection box that then negotiates packet transfer.  It's fast, but lots of overhead.
<imbrandon> somerville32, 30 minutes isnt a terrible build :)
<somerville32> imbrandon, I have a 333mhz and building slows my computer now pretty bad
<somerville32> *down
<imbrandon> somerville32, i'm on a p200 :)
<somerville32> imbrandon, Right now?
<imbrandon> my "fast" box is a powerpc 333 with 96mb ram
<imbrandon> yes right now
<LaserJock> persia: well, we use GPIB for all data collection
<somerville32> What OS are you using?
<imbrandon> gutsy
<somerville32> gnome?
<imbrandon> fluxbox
<imbrandon> + kde apps
<LaserJock> hehe, gnome ... hehe
 * somerville32 was hoping imbrandon has the magic codes to make gnome run fast.
<somerville32> *had
<imbrandon> with an email address like imbrandon@kubuntu.org i dont use gnome terribly much
<somerville32> I wish we had @xubuntu.org
<somerville32> I filed a ticket months ago
<somerville32> no reply
<TheMuso> somerville32: I'll modify the changelog accordingly for your upload now, but please take note of what I said earlier.
<imbrandon> send a request to rt@
<somerville32> imbrandon, I did.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Ok. Thank you.
<TheMuso> np
<LaserJock> somerville32: yeah, sometimes things get lost in RT
<somerville32> I'll poke someone sooner or later.
<persia> LaserJock: And USB can't handle that?
<LaserJock> persia: well, it seems to be slower than our PCI card
<LaserJock> I don't know if it's too slow yet
<somerville32> PCI has more bandwidth than USB, eh?
<LaserJock> we're having to rewrite all the darn LabView crap
<LaserJock> to see if it's software or hardware limited
<LaserJock> but we have to do everything at 10Hz
<LaserJock> and right now I think we're at about 5Hz
<persia> LaserJock: I suspect you've got a funny implementation.  Most newer USB chips shouldn't have a problem with 8MB/sec (64Mbit/sec), unless your're multiplexing your collection lines.
<LaserJock> not sure
<persia> somerville32: Doesn't matter too much: IEEE_488.1 isn't that fast.
 * somerville32 nods.
<LaserJock> persia: GPIB is da bomb ;-)
<LaserJock> or so my boss says ;-)
<LaserJock> personally I think it's a big pain in the butt
<imbrandon> persia, the fastest ATX ARM board i seem to find is 233Mhz, any ideas on gettign something faster ? http://www.simtec.co.uk/products/EB110ATX/
<LaserJock> our new oscilloscope has an ethernet card in it, I'm somewhat tempted to see if I could run it that way
<persia> LaserJock: It certainly looks nice.  I've only every played with limited pulls from DB25 and a special add-in card for an Apple IIgs forever ago, but I like IEEE_488.1.  Simple no the probe end, and fairly fast.
<persia> imbrandon: why do you want ATX?
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, the big pain for me is that National Instruments changed their driver so I can only use a 2.4 kernel
<imbrandon> persia, i want a full desktop board, could be smaller, but i want to be able to run it fully standalone with attached drives and video out etc
<LaserJock> well, that or somehow rewrite the data collection program
<persia> imbrandon: OK, so microATX and the like works for you as well, as long as it has USB, video out, and a sane drive controller?
<imbrandon> yup
 * persia wishes that all the robotics stores in Akihabara hadn't switched to AMD
<Fujitsu> Robotics stores!?
<Fujitsu> You have *robotics* stores?
<persia> Fujitsu: You know, stores that sell consumer robots, parts, kits, controllers, etc.
<LaserJock> you have stores!? like real stores? ;-)
<imbrandon> cool, no i;ve never seen one either
<persia> LaserJock: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> persia: No, I don't know of them.
<Fujitsu> Well, I do now, but..
<imbrandon> most that kinda stuff here is mail order
<persia> Well, actually the one that I used to visit that was all-robotics closed, but major sections, like 1/2 a floor or a full floor in a big store
<imbrandon> or internet order
 * persia disdains the internet for delivery of material goods
<LaserJock> imbrandon: pfft, who uses mail
<imbrandon> LaserJock, lol
<LaserJock> persia: that's the only way some of us get anything
<Fujitsu> persia: Note that you live in a nation which doesn't generally seem to be in the technological dark ages.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's not that, it's that Japan is running out of people, so we need to make more, or there won't be anybody to do the work in 20 years.
<Fujitsu> persia: Ahahah.
<persia> Other countries (like Australia) have good robot tech, but less of an economic incentive to push it into the market: people want jobs, not robots to do the work.
 * Fujitsu decides to attempt to resolve the universe security situation post-exams. ~motu-swat has quite a few open bugs subscribed, and that's not nearly as many as there actually are.
<imbrandon> persia, where are you ? jp ?
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.
<imbrandon> ahh /me never knew
 * persia suggests traceroute
<somerville32> We can't see your ip
<persia> somerville32: imbrandon can
<somerville32> okay.
<imbrandon> persia, heh yea but i tend not too unless needed
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> pluss as soon as i use operserv tons of PM's come in asking for cloaks etc :)
<persia> imbrandon: The trick is to do it in a private channel, no?
<imbrandon> that and ssh + screen + irssi , is quite common
<imbrandon> persia, well yea but i would still have to wear a +T which makes me show up on /stats p , e.g. "available" for Staff requests
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  No help for that then.
<imbrandon> even if its only for moments
<imbrandon> hrm persia ever messed with these "full systems" that seem to fit in a PCI slot ?
<imbrandon> could 1 or 2 of those be added to an x86 and it just use the HDD etc from the "host" ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: cn u pls giv me ops? :)
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: Only lightly.  I once worked on a code management system for a system that consisted of 8 PCI boards, each of which ran a 486SX
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<ajmitch> yay!
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> imbrandon: How important is the video driver again?  Does this need to connect to a monitor, or will serial console do?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cn u pls giv me ops?
<imbrandon> serial would do
<LaserJock> lol, you nut
 * Fujitsu watches the virus spread.
 * imbrandon notes the access list in -motu ;)
<LaserJock> my IRC foo is not so good
 * ajmitch looks at Fujitsu 
 * Fujitsu is looked at.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, e.g. anyone can op in here , kinda like giving the whole town guns to prevent crimes ;)
<imbrandon> one of the only *ubuntu* channels like that iirc
 * ajmitch thinks of the ramifications of kicking Hobbsee...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Only staffers seem to have a wildcard here.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, try to opup
<somerville32> Not anyone can op in here
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<minghua> ajmitch: Entertaining for a bystander, I'm sure.
<Hobbsee> muhahahahaha
<persia> imbrandon: How about http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=178?  It's pretty cheap, and well supported.  You'll want to get http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=190&osCsid=8301de13ae9dcd5750cc01e98473ec5e for NFS mounting, and the like, and http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=185 for console.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, the staffer wild card is to "invite" staffers to op when needed , they CAN in any channel but dont out of principal except where the wildcard is
<Hobbsee> who's next?
<highvoltage> stop the violence!!!
<highvoltage> :)
<Fujitsu> Baaah.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, the staffer wild card is to "invite" staffers to op when needed , they CAN in any channel but dont out of principal except where the wildcard is
<TheMuso> Stop all this distructive behavior. Do you want your uus queue processed? :p
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I knew that, but couldn't see any others.
 * Fujitsu checks levels.
<Fujitsu> (I note I couldn't unban myself :()
 * Hobbsee got the list changed
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, you're not on the list :P
 * Hobbsee --> work
<Fujitsu> Isn't it a bit silly to let anybody op?
<Fujitsu> Maybe *!*@ubuntu/member/*, but...
<minghua> As long as it's not abused, I think it's okay.
<ajmitch> and hobbsee ran away...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, its been that way almost 3 years now :)
<Fujitsu> She did.
<LaserJock> we've never had a problem I don' think
<minghua> Next time I won't need to ask for ops if a troll came in.
<LaserJock> bah
<persia> Fujitsu: It's not a problem until it's a problem.  I like to have it be open: we're generally well behaved (recent events excluded)
<minghua> (although Hobbsee said that she has changed the list...)
<Fujitsu> persia: True, true.
<Fujitsu> minghua: She hasn't.
<minghua> Oh okay.
<imbrandon> she dident
<minghua> persia: I wouldn't really categorize the recent event as "badly behaved"...
<LaserJock> wahoo
<persia> minghua: Would you categorise it as "well behaved"?
<LaserJock> I was able to deop myself, phew
<imbrandon> persia, i seem to get SQL errors on all those pages
 * persia grumbles.
<imbrandon> persia, ahh fixed it
<imbrandon> i had one too many ? in the url
<persia> imbrandon: gumstix.com.  You want console-vx, netCF-vs, and a Vestax.  Should be ~250US for a 600MHz machine with console, ethernet, and a CF card for up to 4GB of local disk space (use the USB port for the actual build runs, etc.)
<minghua> persia: Not really...  But I was tempted to fool around a bit, too. :-P
<persia> minghua: Then we agree :)
<imbrandon> persia, ahhh very nice, thanks for the links
<LaserJock> "imbrandon's collection of ancient and unusable procs"
<imbrandon> hehe un-useable i wouldent say
<persia> imbrandon: In ATX, I can also only find ~200MHz.  I found some 400MHz in miniITX, but this is 600MHz, much cheaper, and very linux friendly (look at the wiki)
<LaserJock> if I could only get my sparc machine running
<LaserJock> I've still not even booted it up
<imbrandon> LaserJock, just hook a serial console to it and boot :)
 * persia hands LaserJock a spool of solder
<Fujitsu> Are we creating an ARM port or something?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  I want ubuntu-mobile :)
<Fujitsu> Aha, nice.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't think I have a serial console
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i'm sure there will be a need for ubuntu mobile
<Fujitsu> Just that seed for now?
<persia> LaserJock: You can use a null-modem cable to your PC
<minghua> What arch is the ARM port going to be?  armeb?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we're going to be doing some stuff with UME I think for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> for the classmate
<persia> minghua: I was thinking big-endian.  Do you have a preference?
<imbrandon> sweet
<LaserJock> persia: where do I get a null-modem cable?
<imbrandon> preferably stuff that would run on the nokia's
<pwnguin> LaserJock: radioshack?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you can make one super easy
<pwnguin> LaserJock: or just switch like three wires around
<persia> LaserJock: swap pins 2&3, and short 8&20, but they cost less than a bottle of water at most electronics stores.
<LaserJock> hmm, but that's rs232
<LaserJock> what am I gonna stick that into
<imbrandon> the back of the sparc and your laptop
<Fujitsu> Laptops with RS232? hahaha.
<imbrandon> then open a terminal on the lappy , and boot the sparc
<persia> Your SPARC has a serial connection (one of DB25, DB9, or RJ-48).  On the other side, you might need an older computer.
<LaserJock> yeah, I'll have to check around
<LaserJock> we mostly have iMacs these days
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, his 1800+ probably has a serial port
<imbrandon> LaserJock, if your really fancy get a db9 serial to usb converter, they work too
<imbrandon> then spark serial to cable to converter to laptop usb
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'll have to look into that
<LaserJock> it's just gotta be cheap
<LaserJock> I've already wasted $0 on this thing ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: If you want to look extra cool, get a USB -> RJ48 serial converter : then you can use the nifty colored network cables to connect.
<imbrandon> LaserJock,  less than $20 total
<imbrandon> even with a converter
<Fujitsu> persia: You mean RJ45, or is there some other standard I was previously unaware of?
<Fujitsu> Anybody here run WordPress on Dapper or Edgy?
<persia> Fujitsu: It's RJ45 + a key groove to prevent people sticking in network cables.
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, that one, right.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i DID at one time, i've since upgraded to gutsy
<persia> (which is easy to fix with nearly any sharp implement and a couple minutes)
<imbrandon> ( for imbrandon.com )
 * Fujitsu will attempt to get both (from 2.0.[23]) up to 2.0.11 in the next couple of weeks, as that security branch is being kept alive for another few years.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's a better answer.  I was looking at backports about five months ago, and the patches are just ugly :(
<LaserJock> darn it, where'd nixternal go
<imbrandon> dunno i've always run from source on it, 2.3.1 atm
<imbrandon> webapp packages always seemed pointless to me,
<Fujitsu> persia: I'll review the patches between versions to make sure, but it all looks like it should be OK to do direct version backports to -security.
<Fujitsu> And once we're up to date, we just have to track etch.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I kinda go both ways on it
<LaserJock> if we keep on top of the updates it's not too bad
<Fujitsu> It's a lot easier when we have a Debian release fairly well synchronised.
<imbrandon> well personaly i hack on my webapps too much for an automated update ever to work
<imbrandon> thats why i dont
<imbrandon> my wordpress install can hardly be called 2.3.1 really
 * Fujitsu recruits more people for ~motu-swat.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: if I was more reliable I'd love to help
<LaserJock> but umm, right now I don't know if LaserJock and QA/Security should go together
<persia> Fujitsu: That seems sane to me, but last time I suggested that a couple people weren't entirely happy about the idea.
<persia> LaserJock: Perhaps you and I together could be almost as reliable as one person?
<LaserJock> hehe
<Fujitsu> persia: It's the only way we're going to be able to support it for any significant length of time.
<persia> Fujitsu: I agree: since upstream has a "stable series", it doesn't make sense to cherrypick.
<Fujitsu> I'd really like to get some proper security tracking (integrated with Debian's) for Hardy.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<Fujitsu> There are some other bugfixes thrown into some of the the earlier updates, I think.
<minghua> persia: (about ARM port) No, I don't have any preference, it's just that there are three different arches in Debian that makes me curious.
<Fujitsu> But they're minimal, so should be manageable.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think that 6 months ago people were considering Dapper to not be a good SRU candidate, but with hardy coming, it's suddenly more important to make sure we meet our obligations.
<white> Fujitsu: why not adjusting the security tracker?
<Fujitsu> white: Well, I was hoping your people wouldn't be too "aaaaargh it's ubuntu kill kill kill kill"
<white> Fujitsu: where did you get that feeling?
<Fujitsu> white: Some DDs are, so...
<persia> minghua: little-ending, big-endian, and arbitrary-endian (yes, ARM supports this)
<Fujitsu> .... arbitrary-endian. Riiight.
<Fujitsu> arm split in Debian recently, didn't it?
<persia> Fujitsu: Really: there's a instruction that swaps the endian-sense for some ARM chips.
<white> Fujitsu: well i was offering cooperation between the tesiting-security team and ubuntu for quite some time ;)
<Fujitsu> That sounds really wrong.
<white> Fujitsu: i am not convinced that the current people maintaining the tracker would mind that much, if ubuntu is displayed as well
<Fujitsu> white: I'll be able to devote a lot of time after next Friday, so will have a look and try to get something going soon.
<persia> white: Please forgive our lack of organisation: we'll try to be able to respond to you soon.
<LaserJock> what is the proposal?
<white> persia: no worries
<white> LaserJock: track the unembargoed issues (and the embargoed as far as it is possible) with the security tracker
<persia> LaserJock: -security collaboration between Debian and Ubuntu (especially for universe)
<LaserJock> ok
<white> LaserJock: and it should be able to adjust it, in order to show the ubuntu releases as well
<LaserJock> oh, that would be awesome
<LaserJock> I love the Debian security tracker stuff
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure what the security team will think of this, but we can do it for universe at least.
<Fujitsu> The security tracker rocks, yeah.
 * persia thinks Ubuntu just needs a semi-stable point of contact to organise things
<white> i did not discuss that with the rest of the testing-security team or the stable sec team, but i personally do not see any problem with that
<Fujitsu> And it would be nice to keep Hardy in good shape for a couple of years.
<white> LaserJock: keep in mind that it still leaves the embargoed issues though
<persia> Fujitsu: If we propose for universe, I don't imagine they will complain, although I'm not sure their workflow will change as much.
<Fujitsu> Malone would actually be very good for tracking such things, but I can't see that happening.
<persia> white: That's OK.  We currently sometimes take > 6 months for the unembargoed issues: so any bettter tracking would be a vast improvement.
<persia> Fujitsu: There's some stuff in there (at least for CVEs), but the interface is not ideal.
 * Fujitsu has got to a couple of issues within a day or two, but that's a vast minority.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<white> well, i can answer questions if needed (last exam tomorrow :) )
<Fujitsu> Erm, s/vast/tiny/, I guess.
<\sh> moins
<pwnguin> whee
<pwnguin>            *(vertex_data_start+14+(i<<6)) = (127 - ((*(vertex_data_start+14+(i<<6))) & 127)) | ((*(vertex_data_start+14+(i<<6))) & 128);  // !!!ANCHOR!!!
<Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
<TheMuso> Can we sync from 3rd-party repos like debian multimedia for example?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: We can, but it's not often done.
<persia> Â¥Sh  Hi
<\sh> at last...my holiday is over
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right...
<persia> TheMuso: Yes, but it requires extra manual work by the admins, so we usually don't
<TheMuso> persia: makes sense.
<persia> TheMuso: long, long ago the sync scripts were adjusted to handle more other repos, but we didn't end up wanting everything from any of them, and playing with blacklists got it all turned off, just as a frame of reference for the current situation.
<TheMuso> Right.
 * TheMuso has knocked down the uus queue a bit.
<pkern> \sh: YAY!
 * pkern cheers \sh
<pkern> Nightrose: ^
 * persia cheers, and promises pound on it when REVU day closes
<persia> to^
<Nightrose> morning \sh and pkern
<Nightrose> ;)
<TheMuso> I'd review, but I feel uus is just as important ATM.
<pkern> Nightrose: Heh... I'm already in a "lecture" ;)
<Nightrose> how are you?
<Nightrose> hehe /me is getting ready for her lectures
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: uus is more important. Always.
<\sh> Nightrose, fine :) relaxed :)(
<Nightrose> good :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I actually agree with that.
<pkern> \sh: Complete resistance/reluctance to use the PC or any modern mean of communication? :-P
<persia> TheMuso: I think UUS is always more important, it's just that the end of REVU day and my access to my key coincidentally happen around the same time
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I don't see why anybody would think otherwise..
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I'm sure some people do.
<Fujitsu> Bugfixes are going to be more beneficial than a random new package.
<persia> Random new packages tend to contribute negatively to the bug closing efforts
 * pkern waits for his laptop to be repaired at IBM and return to Ubuntu afterwards.  They (tried to) call(ed) me yesterday because I forgot to remove the BIOS password.  Yuck.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's the one.
<pkern> persia: Synced or "new in Ubuntu"?
<persia> pkern: Yes
<Fujitsu> pkern: Those fetched from the pool of evil that lurks in REVU.
<persia> (Many new-in-Debian packages seem to take about 6 months to get in good shape)
<pkern> So both is evil I conclude.
<imbrandon> shouldent all packages be imported by now ?
<pkern> persia: Depends on the sponsor ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Not quite.
<imbrandon> all non-merge packages
<imbrandon> err ok
<Fujitsu> I only saw up to m* in NEW yesterday.
<persia> Fujitsu: You're not familiar with the random stuff that ends up in Debian?  At least everything in REVU goes in lintian/linda clean, installs, and doesn't FTBFS
<Fujitsu> persia: Really? Ew.
<persia> pkern: Let's just say "self-sponsored" isn't as ideal as I'd like.
<pkern> persia: You're insulting Debian here.
<Fujitsu> I wonder how they manage that.
<pkern> persia: And it passes NEW?
<pkern> persia: FTBFS on obscure architectures that Ubuntu doesn't have?
<persia> pkern: There are cases of self-sponsored software in Ubuntu that are just as bad, if not worse, but I claim that the policy of requiring REVU even for developers is superior than just allowing uploads.
<pkern> I'd disagree, though.
<persia> pkern: True, lots of it is caught in NEW, but not all.
<TheMuso> ...like when NEW is so long that they take shortcuts just to get through it all? :p
<pkern> persia: Do you have hard data to back that up?
<persia> pkern: I don't have my search tools handy, but did I, I would compare all software new-in-gutsy and all software new-in-Debian during the gutsy cycle.  I'd expect to see similar levels of cruft, with Ubuntu more likely to not run properly, and Debian more likely to have unimportant lintian/linda wanrings and informational notes.
 * TheMuso -> dinner
<pkern> persia: Thanks.  That relieves me.
<\sh> pkern, right :)
<persia> pkern: Good.  I really don't mean to insult Debian, I just think that peer review promotes quality.  On the other hand, Debian is very much more likely to follow up on getting the package in shape once it's accepted, whereas much of new-in-Ubuntu rots.
<Fujitsu> For certain, very large, values of much.
 * persia agrees with that definition of much
<minghua> IMHO, there are plenty of bad packages that are rotting in Debian as well, they just only rot in unstable and never get released, because of the wonderful policy of RC bugs.
<pkern> But Ubuntu syncs from unstable so it rots there, too.
<pkern> That's a large QA issue IMHO.
<persia> minghua: Well, someone has to file the RC bug: packages without users can end up in stable and still be cruft.
<Fujitsu> We really do need to trawl through the Ubuntu-new packages and tag stuff that could probably be obliterated.
<persia> pkern: The idea is that we're supposed to fix it up, but not insult the person who has been ignoring it for the past couple years by NMUing.  It's not ideal, and needs QA attention, but it's not a bad idea.
<minghua> persia: If Ubuntu has a RC bug policy, I can probably label about 10 bugs in MOTU-science world as RC right now.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think we should push for as many Ubuntu-only merges as we can get, and then investigate the rest.
<persia> minghua: Sure.  Doesn't help fix them, and doesn't get the code to people who can (I'm here because my joystick didn't work in vegastrike: nothing more)
<pkern> "not insult [...] by NMUing"? wtf? NMUs aren't an insult anymore for quite some people. But that's IMHO, though.
<minghua> persia: While what you said is true, it's only true to a certain extent -- our users do report bugs, it's just that we don't triage them properly enough.
<persia> pkern: For any sane maintainer, an NMU is helpful.  For some of the unstable cruft, that's not the case.
<pkern> minghua: So it's all our fault. :-P
<persia> minghua: Do you mean triage into a decision to remove the package?
 * pkern is all for removing packages after import freeze.
<minghua> pkern: In a sense, yes.  For overseeing the whole universe, we MOTU as a team pretty much fails.
<persia> pkern: The problem is that we don't want to remove anything we'll want back.  We don't have a pocket into which we can stuff things, so it ends up just gone.
<persia> minghua: I wouldn't say we fail, but rather that we succeed in narrowly defined ways.
<minghua> persia: If necessary, yes.  My position has always been that no package is (much) better than bad package.
<pkern> persia: You can't imagine how often I already heared that.  I'd guess LP has tobe improved apart from the fact that the package still lives on somewhere in librarian.
<minghua> persia: Sure.  I am always the glass-half-empty guy.
<pkern> persia: There is no morgue, that's right.
<persia> minghua: Hrm.  I'll agree for some values of "bad", but suspect that is the core of the difference anyway.
<pkern> persia: Could we please open a bug about that then?
<persia> pkern: I don't even know if a not-to-be-released pocket is on the roadmap.
<persia> pkern: There may be one.  If not, feel free to file.
<pkern> What are "pockets" in Ubuntu newspeak?
<Fujitsu> pkern: release, security, updates, backports.
<persia> + -proposed
<Fujitsu> True.
<pkern> Fujitsu: ENOTADEFINITION
<persia> So we'd be talking about -excised or something?
<Fujitsu> persia: I presume so.
<pkern> I don't want it to be apt-get'able.
<Fujitsu> But I'm not sure that's an ideal modelling.
<persia> pkern: Why not?  How to grab the source and do something if one can't apt-get?  Most of it will probably FTBFS, so binaries are less of a worry.
<Fujitsu> We ideally want to run initialise-from-parent pre-release, and then remove stuff from the old one. But we can't do that.
<pkern> persia: Then a source-only apt-get source.
<pkern> persia: I don't need apt-get to retrieve packages via dget, but well.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's a much better model.  We could even maintain a continuous import into some trunk, and branch each release.  As long as trunk was basically inaccessible, we'd be golden.
<Fujitsu> persia: But that unfortunately means changing how Soyuz and the rest of the distro works. Which hasn't got a chance of happening.
<persia> ...within the next several years
<pkern> Fujitsu: That's that @ initialise-from-parent?
<pkern> Ah, I understand.
<Fujitsu> pkern: initialise-from-parent is the script that is run to copy an old release into a new one.
<pkern> Yes, some kind of continous trunk would be nice.
<pkern> But it's possible that we aren't focused enough on the release then.
<pkern> Like it's the case in Debian.
<pkern> (Granted, all DDs want releases. :-P )
<persia> pkern: That's why I wanted an inaccessible trunk
<Fujitsu> We need an extra component or something that is never published on release, and we can easily push stuff to/from... but I really don't see how that can happen.
<persia> Fujitsu: Could we create another distribution containing only cruft?
<Fujitsu> I guess with the new multiple archive work (used for partner, and soon security), it wouldn't be too difficult to have an extra pocket published to some hard-to-get-at location, and use Soyuz's new copying feature to get stuff to/from it.
<Fujitsu> That's probably the best solution, actually.
<persia> That would be -excised
<Fujitsu> Yeah, and it's possible now.
<Fujitsu> Erm, sorry, that would be another *component*, not pocket.
<Fujitsu> Like partner.
<persia> Right.  Galaxy?  That takes us back to the discussion I was unhappy with before.
<persia> Err..  No, the container model is wrong: not "Galaxy"
<Fujitsu> I was thinking that: galaxy would be smaller than universe.
<imbrandon> metaverse ?
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.
<Fujitsu> keepawayfromheremortalsiverse.
<persia> imbrandon: That works
<imbrandon> anyhow i personaly dont think we should seperate main/universe only multiverse
<mok0> blackhole
<imbrandon> but thats just me
<persia> So, at what point does a package go to metaverse?  How slippery is the slope?
<persia> imbrandon: That's a demarcation for paid support - arbitrary, but sanely present.
<minghua> What is the difference between metaverse and multiverse...
<Fujitsu> metaverse doesn't have anything to do with licensing
<Fujitsu> minghua: ^^
<persia> minghua: metaverse is random stuff that shouldn't be released.  multiverse is random stuff that might be illegal
<Fujitsu> It's just for broken stuff that should be in a release.
<imbrandon> or we just continuealy sync to grumpy from sid and snapshot from grump not sid
<persia> ^not
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Grumpy won't be like Sid, though.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I understand the Ubuntu context, I was asking the astronomy context. :-P
<Fujitsu> minghua: Ah.
<persia> imbrandon: snapshotting grumpy doesn't help, unless we maintain filters for cruft.
<imbrandon> persia, that would be the point i would think, and to continualy keep the merges going , not just 3 or 4 months of 6
<persia> minghua: metaverse doesn't actually mean anything in astronomy
<minghua> I think I like blackhole better, maybe the-other-side-of-event-horizon? :-P
<persia> imbrandon: Ah, so nobody is allowed to work on grumpy, and we pull from there every six months to start the next release, removing all the broken stuff?
<imbrandon> well work on it, but only in the contect of uploading merges between sid <--> grumpy
<imbrandon> context
<Fujitsu> Isn't Grumpy meant to be integrated with bzr and all, and build VCS snapshots, rather than pull from sid?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea i know thats not it was originaly planned
<Fujitsu> (if it ever materialises, which is looking unlikely at the moment)
<imbrandon> i'm talking something feaseable
<imbrandon> basicly it would be sid with all of ubuntus changes all the time, and we could snapshot from it and filter there
<persia> imbrandon: I don't like that: we're not staffed to handle continuous integration without failing in the release efforts.  Debian has two rough phases: random new junk and prepare for release.  We mostly just do the latter, except for small six-week windows when we snapshot.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<Fujitsu> We don't have the resources to maintain a rolling-release branch and a pre-release one.
<persia> imbrandon: Hire 20 developers to work on it full time, and I'm behind you all the way.
<Fujitsu> We don't have the resources to do just one.
<imbrandon> persia, i'm thinking if you had one continus life cycle like that it would attract new developers
<imbrandon> changing "modes" all the times puts off new people
<imbrandon> and old alike
<persia> Fujitsu: Right, although a staffed rollling release might help the dev release, if the rolling release wasn't really available for testing.
<imbrandon> exactly
<persia> imbrandon: It would attract developers, but it would attract the same developers that Ubuntu attracts from Debian, which doesn't help Ubuntu release.  If you want lots more reasoning about the value of phases, read the archives of debian-release@l.d.o
<pkern> Hm, I could install Gutsy/ppc.
<Fujitsu> Anyway, it's probably not useful to discuss things like this, as Canonical will be the ones making any changes, and they're unlikely to respect the ideas of 4 MOTU :P
<pkern> Iff that works.
<persia> imbrandon: paid developers can be paid to shut up and do it, so semi-private is easier to do.
<pkern> Fujitsu: We can lobby.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you would be suprised, PPA's was 3 MOTU's lobbying at first :)
<imbrandon> even though it wasent what was originaly envisioned it is 80% of it
<persia> No, Fujitsu is right.  If we have a good model, and want to propose something, we can get it done.  Random griping doesn't necessarily help.
<Fujitsu> Oh, die bhavi die.
<persia> heh
<Fujitsu> Don't need Ubuntu tasks on Launchpad bugs, go away go away go away.
<imbrandon> right but there is a distincy diffrence between hashing out ideas and griping :)
<imbrandon> i dont think in *this* session any one was "bitching" more of a what if? nah but what if this? etc
<imbrandon> anyhow yea, back to work ....
<persia> imbrandon: Sure.  I'm not certain that it was not worthwhile.
<imbrandon> persia, do you have a debian env on those ARM's or just *nix ?
 * persia points at bug #160409 for anyone who wants a quick upload
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160409 in vzctl "Please apply upstream OpenVZ patch for Upstart issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160409
<Fujitsu> We're not going to get any changes for Hardy, so we might as well practice aggressive removal tactics.
<persia> imbrandon: One's idle.  The other runs a custom linux ROM from Sharp.  I can put Debian on the idle one.
<Fujitsu> persia: Do you know how to bootstrap a new arch?
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, for some definition of agressive.  (on which I refuse to agree with anyone prior to UVF)
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  That's why I'm looking forward to imbrandon's buildd :)
<Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchitectureBootstrapping might help.
<imbrandon> i do sorta, atleaste have a idea
<imbrandon> an*
<imbrandon> i have sb2 env for armel and powerpc setup
<imbrandon> thus why i asked if you had a deb env
<imbrandon> well almost setup, looking for a rootstrap other than maemo for armel now
<persia> That's not so bad: just loop and cycle.  Would a qemu ARM be sufficient?
<Fujitsu> It would be slow, but certainly workable.
<imbrandon> persia, qemu ARM is what maemo uses for dev :)
<Fujitsu> I wonder how slow qemu's ARM emulation is, actually...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not tooooo bad
<persia> Fujitsu: It's not that bad.  I get about 1/2 to 1/3 host speed.
<imbrandon> you all ever used sb2 ?
<persia> never heard of it
<Fujitsu> persia: That's not bad at all.
<imbrandon> its the bomb for cross compiling debian packages, seemelesss qemu or rshb cpu intercragtion, the package never knows its being cross compiled
<imbrandon> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=sbox2.git;a=blob;hb=HEAD;f=README
<imbrandon> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2
<imbrandon> ( its in sid )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah, nice.
<imbrandon> basicly i setup a power cross env then ...
<imbrandon> sb2 apt-get source fontconfig
<imbrandon> cd fontconfig
<imbrandon> sb2 debuild
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I can't see it in sid.
<persia> nifty.  I'll have to try that.
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<Fujitsu> But that looks really nice.
<persia> (of course, I'll have to go back to i386 first)
<imbrandon> it works on other arches
<imbrandon> its not i386 specific
<persia> imbrandon: In the pages you listed, it said there were issues with using it for ARM on amd64
<Fujitsu> Let's rebuild i386 on m68k using that.
<Fujitsu> That'd be fast.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://packages.debian.org/sid/scratchbox2
<persia> !info hardy scratchbox2
<ubotu> Package hardy does not exist in gutsy
<persia> !info scratchbox2
<ubotu> Package scratchbox2 does not exist in gutsy
<persia> Hrm.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah, I tried various combinations of sb(ox)?2?, didn't think to try sratchbox.
<imbrandon> yea only because they were using a xcompiler made by codesoursey, if you make your own toolchain(s) thats not a problem
<persia> Ah.  It went in in July.
<Fujitsu> Just too late :(
<persia> imbrandon: If I make my own toolchain, am I safe to later run on actual hardware?
<imbrandon> persia, e.g. from http://psas.pdx.edu/DebianCrossCompilerHowto/
<imbrandon> persia, yea, maemo uses this exclusevly to make the nokia770 stuff
<imbrandon> thats how i found out about it
 * persia plans to get ubuntu-mobile for christmas
<imbrandon> they actualy started on sbox1 , but thats a pita and has some limitations
<imbrandon> infact i lost the link but someone was building regualr packages for i386 to powerpc and arm and mips xcompilers
<imbrandon> one of the debian gcc maintainers iirc
<Fujitsu> persia: I can probably throw some mostly idle Core 2 Duos at it if you need more buildds.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i could use a shell on one hehe beats my p200 :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Can't do anything now, unfortunately :(
<persia> Fujitsu: If you have cycles to spare, it'd be great.  I'd be building on-and-off on my heat challenged AMD64, and moving to the PXA255 once I has something useful for continuous integration (as I can run that 24 hours a day)
<Fujitsu> persia: An extra 4 2.8GHz cores should help, then.
<persia> Fujitsu: Very much so :)
<mok0> A quick amd64 question: Is it necessary to include the -m64 flag when compiling on that platform, or is it enabled by default?
<persia> mok0: I've just taken a quick look at the gcc docs, and have no idea what that flag would do.  If you are asking if amd64 uses 8-byte words for addresses, etc. by default, the answer is yes, although the most significant 4-bytes are 0 by preference (as opposed to ia64)
<pkern> mok0: Ever needed it.
<pkern> *Never
 * persia echoes pkern, and has ported i386-only stuff to amd64 in C
<pkern> mok0: If you use a native amd64 env you get -m64 by default and could use -m32.
<pkern> (For multilib stuff.)
<mok0> ok, so you'd use -m32 if compiling for i386 on amd64
<mok0> Great, thx guys
 * TheMuso returns.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<persia> pkern: Thanks for subscribing me, although as Fujitsu said, a "component" may be more appropriate.
<pkern> persia: I'm not sure.
<pkern> I really don't want users to download stuff from that component.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Components can be published to other places as of a couple of months ago.
<persia> pkern: Neither I.  We'll wait for dev response, which should make things more clear.
<pkern> persia: ACK.
<Fujitsu> A component is probably ideal, because it also means that the autosync can be left on and things don't need to be blacklisted.
<pkern> Fujitsu: And pockets can not?
<pkern> Fujitsu: Well you could explain me why?
<Fujitsu> pkern: I don't believe they can.
 * persia encourages Fuijtsu, who is knowledgeable about these things, to alter the description of bug#160412
 * Fujitsu might in a minute.
<pkern> Yeah I wanted to say that.  Feel free to modify the description.
<pkern> But well, I don't see how a component is better.  And which component is already published "to another place"?
<Fujitsu> pkern: partner.
<Fujitsu> A lot of work was put in to allow multiple archives.
<Fujitsu> Firstly PPA.
<Fujitsu> But now the old commercial pocket has been turned into a component.
<pkern> Fujitsu: archive.canonical.com, hm, k.
<Fujitsu> Published on archive.canonical.com
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> That's now managed by Soyuz.
<persia> Is that why "commercial" became "partner", to manage the transition?
<pkern> Well partner already looks like a suitable candidate for a component.
<Fujitsu> I don't think so.
<Fujitsu> pkern: partner *is* a component now.
<pkern> But gutsy-morgue with universe, multiverse wouldn't be that wrong, too.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Yeah I understood that.  Sorry for not being a native speaker. ;)
<Fujitsu> persia: I suspect that partner is just a nicer term.
<spacey> sounds less evil ;)
<Fujitsu> spacey: That's right.
<spacey> and is more accurate :) non open source is something different then being commercial or non-commercial
<persia> spacey: True.  "non-open-source" is a better way to describe it, and matches well with the model of multiverse as "open-but-non-free-source"
 * Fujitsu tries in vain to get a sid installer to boot on qemu arm.
<persia> Fujitsu: How badly is it failing?
<Fujitsu> persia: It's just hanging and eating my CPU without displaying anything.
<spacey> persia: you also have commercial open source software ;)
<Fujitsu> (I'm trying to boot a sid netinst)
<minghua> Fujitsu: Probably the arm d-i doesn't support booting in qemu.
<Fujitsu> minghua: I get the same results if I specify an i386 kernel instead of an arm one, so I doubt it.
<persia> Fujitsu: don't do that.  Try lenny.
<Fujitsu> persia: Erm, sorry, it was lenny.
<persia> spacey: Sure.  But that doesn't belong in an open repo, no?
<persia> Fujitsu: lenny shouldn't be that broken.  Hrm.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I apparently need a different kernel.
<persia> Fujitsu: different kernel?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Ah.  I don't know much about either d-i or emulation.  That was just a wild guess.
<Fujitsu> persia: I Googled around and the Debian kernel apparently doesn't work in qemu.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I wonder if ours does.
<Fujitsu> persia: We don't have an arm kernel...
<persia> ...yet
<Fujitsu> And now qemu aborts. A bit of an improvement, I guess.
<Fujitsu> Ah, got it.
<persia> Fujitsu: You're using the arm-versatile kernel?
<Fujitsu> persia: I am.
<pkern> Why isn't there a tar.gz on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/ *cough*
<persia> pkern: Why do you want a tar.gz?
<pkern> persia: To untar it in tftpboot?
<pkern> Debian does that.
<persia> pkern: Ah.  Good use case.  File a bug :)
<pkern> Ok, off to install Gutsy/ppc.
<huats> morning all
<huats> TheMuso: hello
<huats> sorry about bug 160337
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160337 in dbmail "Merge dbmail (2.2.6) from debian unstable" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160337
<TheMuso> huats: Thats ok. That sort of thing does happen from time to time.
<huats> (I mean about 'fix committed') it was way too late, and I've made this mistake
<huats> ...
<huats> I gett the new debian one...
<TheMuso> huats: Oh that, ok no problem.
<TheMuso> I've looked at so many sponsor requests today, that I couldn't remember which one that was for. :)
<huats> :-)
<huats> no pb
<huats> I kind of imagine...
<pkern> Now netboot used to work out-of-the-box with debian-installer.
 * persia remembers those halcyon days...
<pkern> I could UPGRADE to gutsy.
<pkern> From the dapper installed.
<pkern> Now that's news.
<pkern> I'd guess I'll have to go through each and every intermediate release or wait for hardy.
<persia> pkern: Yep.  Dapper -> Gutsy isn't supported.  On the other hand, that only means you might have a bit of manual transitioning: nothing a few hours with aptitude shouldn't sort.
<imbrandon> correct, i wouldent try to upgrade a machine directly unless you plan on breaking it and fixing some upgrade bugs
<pkern> persia: Gimme a gun :-P
 * persia gives pkern a very small empty water pistol
<imbrandon> even dapper to edgy then to gutsy would be easier ( because of the upstart and python transitions )
<persia> imbrandon: Were the transition hooks dropped in feisty?
<imbrandon> persia, no idea, but i know it was a pita and ended up not working at all ( busybox promt )
 * pkern is curious if Linux still breaks his HDD.
<imbrandon> took me 3 days 4+ hours each day
<imbrandon> with aptitude
<persia> Ah.  That's right: you were trying that on your imac, weren't you :)
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> i ended up installing sid
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: So, how was sid -> gutsy? (or didn't you)
<imbrandon> nope havent touched it since then
<imbrandon> still sitting on sid
<minghua> Hmm, I wasn't aware there were a automatix session in UDS.
 * persia doesn't really understand why a 200MHz Pentium is preferable to a 233MHz PPC
<imbrandon> 333 , and because i have my 160GB sata and 22in LCD on my p200
<imbrandon> the imac can use neither
<imbrandon> so i would be on a 10GB hdd with 15in crt
<imbrandon> plus nice things like flashplugin-nonfree still kinda work :)
<persia> minghua: Yep: automatix solved a real user need, so there are strong efforts underway to address that need without the issues that are automatic
<minghua> persia: Yeah, hopefully something good can be gotten out of it.
<minghua> I do wish automatix can succeed, but definitely not in the current form.
<persia> minghua: Actually, we've gotten a few good things.  There are some better menu entries, a few altered defaults to make things more likely to work out of the box, and some other things.  I don't think a big script running as root is the right answer, but the automatix team has been working to integrate and that is of great benefit.
<TheMuso> oooo/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<minghua> persia: Good to know.  Are those changes new in hardy or are they already in gutsy?
<persia> minghua: I remember a few going into gutsy at the end, but there were some things that couldn't be done at that point in the cycle.  I haven't seen much activity from hardy, but UDS sessions don't usually generate much for two or three weeks while people rest, digest, and build prototypes
<minghua> persia: I understand that.  I was just curious and wanted to know if I can see anything that came from automatix team's effort on my gutsy.
<imbrandon> wifes up and wants me to come to bed, gnight all
<mok0> imbrandon: what? at 11am??
<imbrandon> 4am here
<mok0> ;-)
<mok0> gnight
<s1024kb> minghua: nice to meet you again.
<s1024kb> norsetto: hello my teacher, nice to meet you again.
<norsetto> s1024kb: hi there!
<huats> norsetto: hello pasta maker
<norsetto> huats: hello garlic abuser
<huats> :-)
<huats> norsetto: the thing is that you are damn right
<persia> minghua: The only one I can remember off the top of my head is the improvement for the checkgmail icon.  I think there were more, but I wasn't very involved with the automatix efforts.
<huats> I like garlic
 * norsetto has a rapid thought about what huats gf has to put up with .....
<huats> norsetto: :-)
<huats> norsetto: my gf used to have a german roomate who once said to another of their roomate : 'I don't know how she can do with huats, he puts garlic on every plates he cooks'
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: she is definetively too good for you ;-)
<huats> ;)
<s1024kb> norsetto: excuse me, how to install the latest Debootstrap for my gusty? I use "sudo apt-get install Debootstrap" but couldn't find the package
<norsetto> s1024kb: mind the capitalisation
<norsetto> s1024kb: it should be debootstrap, for linux D and d are two different letters
<minghua> s1024kb: Hello there.
<s1024kb> norsetto: thanks, got it done.
<s1024kb> norsetto: so when to use Debootstrap? when i want to install a package for testing?
<norsetto> s1024kb: debootstrap installs a minimum debian system
<norsetto> s1024kb: for instance, you would need it when making a chroot
<pkern> I don't want to install Debian, but Ubuntu!
<s1024kb> norsetto: thanks, i guessed so. :-)
<pkern> Call it ubuntubootstrap!
<norsetto> pkern: ubootstrap ....
<pkern> Or that ;)
<s1024kb> pkern: i could not agree more. :-)
<pkern> Sarcasm in here is well received. :D
<minghua> Awww.  Bug 160424 is cute.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160424 in gperiodic "gPeriodic missreports Lithium melting point" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160424
<norsetto> pkern: or u-bootstrap (for our german colleagues ;-))
<pkern> Uh?
<pkern> I don't get the connection between dash and German.
<\sh> u-boot submarine
<s1024kb> pkern: u-boogstrap for our chinese colleagues too. :-)
<norsetto> pkern: u-boot .....
<pkern> omg
<Nafallo> hm
<tepsipak1i> Seveas: hey, do you have an ETA for falcon-2.0beta3 ?-)
<norsetto> minghua: tell him gperiodic will be obsolete soon, we have gelemental in hardy which is much better .....
<norsetto> minghua: oh well, he knows it already ....
<minghua> norsetto: Yeah, the reporter seems quite familiar with the business.
<tepsipak1i> Seveas: oh there is beta3.. I need to test that
<tepsipak1i> err, debs only for beta2
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
 * persia apologies for the tardy end to REVU Day.  Thank you everyone.
<norsetto> thank *YOU* persia
 * persia grumbles that it's too hard to find a link to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/python-qt4
<Fujitsu> persia: Soyuz navigation sucks - the only feasible way to do anything is constructing URLs manually.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yeah.  I know.  It's just sometimes frustrating when I can't remember the magic sequence to collect any piece of information.
<persia> How long should it take between a successful build and the packages being listed under "Binary Packages" for a given package in a given release?
<DaveMorris> Hi guys.  I'm building a package and it's giving me a W: opensg-dev: old-fsf-address-in-copyright-file E: opensg-dev: copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl however the licence of the source code is the Library General Public Licence.  (quite old) Should I be updating the address on it still?  And what about the lintian error?
<TheMuso> DaveMorris: yes the FSF address should be updated.
<persia> DaveMorris: You should update the address in debian/copyright, but not in ./LICENSE.
<DaveMorris> and the error?
<persia> (or ./COPYING, or whatever)
<DaveMorris> as I can't see the Library licence in /usr/share/common-licenses only the lesser one
<joejaxx> TheMuso: the maintainer field needs to be mentioned more than once? if it is a merge? (i guess so since it is a change)
<Fujitsu> persia: No time at all, as far as I know.
<Fujitsu> It shouldn't even need to be published, particularly with the new workflow.
<persia> For the error, you want to link against something in /usr/share/common-licenses/ : if there is no license there that matches the package, then you should add an override.
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  Here's a strange one.  python-qt4 built on i386 10 hours ago, but python-qt4-common doesn't show in the "Binary Packages", although the build log shows it to be created.  qtiplot just FTBFS on powerpc (within the last hour) because python-qt4 couldn't be installed, due to a lack of python-qt4-common.  My local hardy apt-cache also doesn't have python-qt4-common binary after update.
<persia> To whom should I complain?
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Yes, as it is a change that we introduce.
<Fujitsu> persia: Binary NEW?
<DaveMorris> I'm also getting E: opensg-dev: shlib-with-non-pic-code usr/lib/libOSGSystem.so.1.0.0 on i386 builds but not amd64 Although they are been liked with the -shared flag
<persia> Ah.  Right.  * persia looks
<Fujitsu>  hardy i386   Successfully built  (NEW)
<Fujitsu> (the binary publishing status appears next to successful builds as of 1.1.9)
<persia> No, it's not in binary NEW.  Hrm.
<Fujitsu> It is.
 * Fujitsu searches the queue.
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  I was confused by the translations.
<Fujitsu> Soyuz says it is, common sense says it is, but does the other bit of Soyuz...
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Nice, it even notes which is NEW when one expands the file list.
<persia> It makes sense to group binary NEW by source package, but it can be confusing if one is silly enough to search by binary package.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I would have initially tried by binary.
<Fujitsu> It wouild be nice if it searched the child files.
<persia> Yeah, well,
<persia> Anyway, thank you for pointing me in the right direction: I now have something I can watch to ask for a give-back :)
<Fujitsu> MANUALDEPWAIT is a misnomer - it will be automatically retried.
 * Hobbsee waves
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
 * pkern cheers Hobbsee
<persia> Fujitsu: From FTBFS?
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, it failed? That sounds really wrong.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, depwait is a subset of ftbfs
 * Hobbsee wonders why she's so sleepy
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not in Soyuz.
<persia> Fujitsu: qtiplot failed because the dependencies couldn't be installed for powerpc because python-qt4-common is in binary NEW
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: should be, anyway
 * persia waits for failures on the other architectures
<Fujitsu> persia: That should throw it to MANUALDEPWAIT, not FAILED.
<Fujitsu> Yet fail it did.
 * Fujitsu files a bug.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I guess it only goes into MANUALDEPWAIT if direct dependencies cannot be satisfied.
 * Fujitsu files a bug.
<persia> Fujitsu: It should, but the checker only checks arch:any.  It gets a little funny for arch-all build-deps, especially when they are deps of build-deps, rather than direct build-deps
<persia> Hobbsee: No, depwait shouldn't be a subset of FTBFS: depwait means an automatic give-back has a chance of success.  FTBFS usually doesn't.  There's no point bothering uploaders and admins for depwait.
<Fujitsu> Oh, come on edge.
<Hobbsee> well, it still failed to build,due to a missing dep :
<Hobbsee> but, true
<persia> Fujitsu: You know, there's always the tradional launchpad
<persia> Hobbsee: Oh, sure, it's just nobody cares until the release gets close, whereas with your standard FTBFS, someone should fix it.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> persia: which you have to tell to redirect you every 2 hours.
<Hobbsee> but the timeouts on edge are really getting ridiculous.
<pkern> I don't get this netboot running.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yep.
<Fujitsu> I think they need some more appservers.
<pkern> Any hints for OF netboot?
<persia> Fujitsu: For edge?  Even standard LP times out for me a couple times a day.
<pkern> Blah.
<pkern> "Server host name not given" "Boot file name: pxelinux.0" Thank you wireshark.
<Fujitsu> Bug #160439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160439 in soyuz "Some builds fail when they should depwait" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160439
<Fujitsu> (I finally got it to not time out!)
<persia> \o/
<Hobbsee> oh yay, ubuntu's mentioned in the sydney paper here
<persia> URL?
<Hobbsee> http://www.smh.com.au/news/laptops/cheap-as-chips/2007/11/04/1194117870384.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
<Hobbsee> not much.  but a bit :)
<pkern> Ubucon was featured on TV here in Germany.  With evangelists featured telling the people how free Ubuntu is.
<broonie> Ubuntu televangelists?
<Hobbsee> nice
<persia> Windows is only 125AUD?  That's inexpensive
<Hobbsee> that doesnt look right - but may be XP
<Fujitsu> persia: Hahaha, bug #33700. The CLI queue manager has the inverse problem.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 33700 in soyuz "could queue filters match source as well as binaries?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33700
<Hobbsee> or a very low version of vista
<persia> Fujitsu: Three cheers for modular programming and reusable components :)
<pkern> I really don't get this bloody iBook to boot.
 * pkern cries.
<Fujitsu> persia: See +queue non-mailing debacle.
<persia> Fujitsu: 152400?
<Fujitsu> Sounds about the right time.
<Fujitsu> Bug #152400
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152400 in soyuz "accept from +queue UI does not send mail to announcement list" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152400
<Fujitsu> That's the one..
<pkern> Is there an Ubuntu ppc support channel?
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  I was hoping for a long diatribe in the buglog :)  Same problem: short timeframes for immediate results without aggressive refactoring
<Fujitsu> persia: Looks that way. Obviously they conform to DRY fairly well - they don't repeat the code even though they need to!
<persia> Fujitsu: While I see the humor there, I'm not sure that's what DRY is intended to mean...
<pkern> Don't repeat yourself
<pkern> I see that applied here.
<pkern> Now of course refactoring is "In progress".
<persia> pkern: An an acronym expansion, sure, as an architectural philosophy, it's a bit more complicated.
<pkern> persia: Yeah I misread your line first and performed the expansion.
<pkern> And then tried to get 'round the miscomprehension.
<pkern> And I failed!
<persia> pkern: No worries.  You pass the Turing test.
<Fujitsu> persia: I know that's not what it's meant to mean, but..
<persia> Fujitsu: Yeah.  My apologies if emotion didn't come across well: it was both very funny and very sad
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> When I saw that bug, I really wondered how they managed to do it. The Soyuz code must be really ungood...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: news at 11.
<persia> Fujitsu: As I understand it, they started with a web-front-end for DAK
<Fujitsu> persia: I doubt it - there's no web frontend now...
<Fujitsu> (other than basic, dodgy viewing)
<Fujitsu> And very dodgy queue accepting, I guess.
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't disagree, but nonetheless, I stand by my understanding of how it started.
<Fujitsu> I hadn't heard that, but you've likely been around it longer than I.
<persia> Fujitsu: I've been around longer, but I don't pay nearly as much attention.
 * Fujitsu curses Hobbsee for stuffing up his window numbering.
<blueyed> When I've updated a package (new upstream version), should I put it on REVU or attach it to the upgrade bug?
<persia> blueyed: That's a matter of some debate, and neither solution is very good.  When reviewing, I like to see an interdiff of the entire package, and a unified diff of the debian directories, so I like to get them as bugs.  Others like to review the package as a whole, and they like to get them on REVU.
<persia> For a while we did both, but that was very broken: we've agreed not to do both, but the correct solution isn't currently clear.
 * Hobbsee curses Fujitsu
<persia> Hobbsee: Just on general principles?
<Hobbsee> persia: yup
<blueyed> persia: I'll attach the package then to the bug. I could add an interdiff and debian-diff there for convenience, too. The package is ~300kb.
<persia> blueyed: Please don't attach the package to the bug: it just makes for a big attachment.
<persia> blueyed: The diff.gz might be useful, but I'm supposed to compare the md5sum with upstream anyway, so I may as well download the orig.tar.gz only once.
<blueyed> persia: Ok, what about attaching dsc and diff.gz then? I've added a watch file, so you can download the orig.tar.gz using uscan..
<persia> (and I should be able to construct the diff.gz from the interdiff anyway
<persia> )
 * persia realises that only the interdiff is interesting, and proposes an item for the next agenda
<deadwill> yo!
<deadwill> mornin' ubunteros
<blueyed> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing even mentions using interdiff, but then uploading to REVU.
<persia> blueyed: Yeah, well, I just had my realisation now: I was less enlightened when I wrote that.
<blueyed> persia: Great. So attaching an interdiff to the upgrade bug is enough (currently)?
<persia> blueyed: Well, the procedure needs to be approved and confirmed, but it's enough for me, and I'm one of the sponsors, so for at least this bug it should do.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: darn.  and i was going to speak to you, too.  ah well.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I'm still around for a bit...
<TheMuso> Waiting for an upload to finish..
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i fixed them :)
<TheMuso> .c
<TheMuso> argh
<TheMuso> joejaxx: If someone else doesn't do them before the morning, I'll do them tomorrow.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: What is /c actually meant to do?
<joejaxx> TheMuso: ok
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: clear the current window of channel content.
<Fujitsu> Ah, so it reads more sanely next time?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: yeah.
<TheMuso> And if the screen gets too full, orca has a fit and reads everything in the channel window.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Hobbsee> darn.  rexbron is not here.
<jussi01> Hobbsee: he should be back soon, I was just peaking to him
<Hobbsee> ah, good
<jussi01> s/peaking/speaking
<zul> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi zul.
<Hobbsee> guten tag
<zul> jambo
<blueyed> Does the following desktop file look sane: http://pastebin.com/m3f73ac1d ?
<Yagisan> O_o um - evince is doing bad things on gutsy
<persia> blueyed: Are you sure those are all valid Categories?
<Yagisan>  7568 yagisan   15   0 7882m 1.7g 4472 S    7 84.5   6:35.45 evince
 * Yagisan is watching it eat almost 8gb of swap and 2gb of ram
<Fujitsu> blueyed: I have no idea what KleanSweep is. A better name is probably `KleanSweep File Cleaner'
<persia> Also, I'm not sure about the polish encoding: do you get the a correct display locally?
<Fujitsu> But what is a file cleaner?
<pkern> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaboot/+bug/26426 -- /me goes beating up someone.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 26426 in yaboot "yaboot cannot handle kernels and/or initrds >6MB uncompressed for netbooting" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Fujitsu> Are my files dirty?
<pkern> I guess I should turn to Debian instead.
<norsetto> blueyed: also I would say "comment: find your unused files"
<persia> Fujitsu: probably
<persia> norsetto: unused?
<norsetto> blueyed: but that will screwup translations ....
<blueyed> persia: is there a list with valid categories? I haven't touched those.
<pkern> Ubuntu, you don't facilitate my living.  Not on the ThinkPad, not on the iBook.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: it finds duplicate, obsolete, ... files, so you can remove them.
<persia> blueyed: desktop-file-validate has the official list in the source: just run it against your .desktop
<Fujitsu> blueyed: Right, so cleaning my filesystem, not my files.
<blueyed> persia: it validates fine.
<persia> Getcher fresh clean files, fresh from the magneto!  Completely clean: guaranteed free of incriminating data!
<norsetto> onna stick ...
<persia> blueyed: Then they are correct.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: You have a point there.. does somebody else agrees here to rename the comment?
<persia> Bah.  Mediterraneans, always wanting things on sticks: you'd think they'd get sick of impalement
<norsetto> inna bun ....
<persia> blueyed: Hrm.  I'd like to agree with changing it, but I prefer to have the translations in sync.  On the other hand, none of the languages I can read seem to say the same thing, so that may be a lost cause.
<blueyed> persia: I've just added "de" myself. What says the french one?
<norsetto> blueyed: file cleaner
<persia> Cleaner of files
<blueyed> What would "Filesystem cleaner" be?
<blueyed> I think the german one ("AufrÃ¤umen von Dateien") fits.
<Fujitsu> That's cleaner of files too.
<norsetto> blueyed: you better ask a french, here is one fresh from lunch
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> proppy: how do you say filesystem cleaner in french?
<persia> blueyed: I claim that Dateien doesn't help me understand that I'm trying to remove cruft from the system, rather than adjusting files.
<proppy> norsetto: nettoyeur  de systeme de ficher ?
<persia> Err.  It doesn't clean the filesystem either: that's fsck
<proppy> norsetto: but i's kinda wierd
<pkern> proppy: encore des accents?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, also in italian I wouldn't know how to say that
<persia> proppy: What about nettoyeur de fichiers ?
<proppy> persia: supa strange
<pkern> blueyed: Deletion isn't really "aufrÃ¤umen" IMHO.
<persia> blueyed: OK.  At least english, french, and polish are broken :)
<proppy> persia: that suggest that clean the file one by one
<persia> Right.  All the languages are bad then.  There need be no fear of adjusting the comment or generic name
<norsetto> just remove the bloody thing from the archive :-)
<norsetto> ops, it cleaned itself ....
<proppy> ahah
<persia> proppy: Yes, which is closer to what it actually does, but simply doesn't parse easily
<proppy> filesystemcleanercleaner
<proppy> persia: what is the purpose of the tool ?
 * persia looks to blueyed for an answer
<norsetto> proppy: dh_cleanfile
<proppy> proppy@nekun:~$ man dh_cleanfile
<proppy> No manual entry for dh_cleanfile
<blueyed> It helps with deletion. It finds empty files/dirs, broken symlinks/execs, orphaned files (based on package system), dead menu entries, obsolete thumbnails and duplicated files.
<proppy> which package ?
<proppy> blueyed: you should call it filesystem girlfriend :)
<blueyed> proppy: kleansweep
<norsetto> thats a good one :-)
 * persia decries it as likely to be considered sexist
<pkern> hot-babe
<persia> pkern: We don't have that either (I think)
<proppy> persia: filesystem control freak ?
<proppy> less sexist
<proppy> it can also be a man
<persia> proppy: less sexist, but implies an AI function
<norsetto> I would call it "backup your hd before running"
<proppy> filesystem sweeper
<blueyed> proppy: I like that.
<proppy> "balayeur du systeme de fichier"
<persia> blueyed: Regarding "duplicated files", is it going to make a lot of noise about duplication in /usr/share/doc ?
<proppy> ramasse miette (garbage collector)
<proppy> filesystem garbage collector sounds good
<blueyed> persia: I don't know. It's running in ~ here currently. Have not tested it on the whole system.
 * persia likes "balayeur du systeme de fichier" better
<norsetto> proppy: you really use that for garbage collector? Its cute
<proppy> norsetto: yep too cute
<proppy> norsetto: http://www.cuisinstore.com/produit/photo/ustensiles_de_cuisine_1060.jpg
<DaveMorris> is there any reason why I'd get a  shlib-with-non-pic-code with i386 debs but not amd64 ?
<proppy> norsetto: or more I-Tech version http://www.brison-sa.be/images/S48DMR6.gif
<norsetto> proppy: ours is cuter, its red with a rolling brush, real high-tech
<persia> DaveMorris: architecture-specific compilation flags?
<DaveMorris> not that I'm aware off, but I'll check
<proppy> norsetto: like this http://www.clama-shop.fr/img-menager/brosse-miettes.jpg ?
<norsetto> proppy: thats the one!
<proppy> norsetto: actually it seems it's called a brosse-miettes (never heard that before))
<blueyed> proppy: can you please translate the comment "Utility which finds unneeded files", too?
<norsetto> blueyed: you should rephrase it with an imperative verb (according to the HIG)
<proppy> HIG ?
<blueyed> norsetto: "Utility to find unneeded files"?
<norsetto> Human Interface Guideline
<Fujitsu> Something like "Find and remove unneeded files"
<persia> "Sweep the filesystem"?  That doesn't sound as good.  Perhaps "Inspect the filesystem for cruft"?
<norsetto> blueyed: yes, the comment field
<proppy> Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutiles
 * persia likes Fujitsu's suggestion
<persia> OK, we just need polish: anyone can help?
<norsetto> for those interested: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/
<persia> Alternately, if any other languages want translation, now's the time :)
<proppy> Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutilis'es, ('e means accent)
<Nafallo> persia: ?
<blueyed> proppy: Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutilsÃ©s?
<Nafallo> persia: Fujitsus line?
<persia> Nafallo: Yep.
<proppy> proppy: Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutilisÃ©s
<proppy> blueyed:
<Nafallo> persia: Hitta och ta bort onÃ¶diga filer
<proppy> but I'll be more confident if I get an ACK from another french guy on this
<proppy> norsetto: can you ask your wife ?
<Nafallo> persia: sv
<norsetto> proppy: she is at work
<blueyed> for now: http://pastebin.com/d68da7e85
<persia> blueyed: Please include sv
<blueyed> Nafallo: can you translate the other fields, too?
 * nand` is french.
<persia> blueyed: Shouldn't it be "Balayeur" ?
<proppy> nand`: go go go
<persia> Also, I still think the Polish is broken
<nand`> proppy: I'm reading the logs...
<blueyed> persia: yes. pl is only broken in the webapp.
<persia> nand`: everthing you need is on http://pastebin.com/d68da7e85
<Fujitsu> blueyed: The name should be more useful. See `Rhythmbox Music Player'.
<proppy> blueyed: fixed http://pastebin.com/mee92cd8
<persia> blueyed: OK.  We still need GenericName[pl]
 * persia looks for Hitta och ta bort onÃ¶diga filer
<Nafallo> blueyed: doing
<Fujitsu> Are we getting a sane translation mechanism for .desktops in the foreseeable future?
<persia> Fujitsu: There's a spec...
 * norsetto thinks that there is nothing like a .desktop file to stir some good reactions
<Fujitsu> persia: How old?
<blueyed> Fujitsu: the spec uses just "Mozilla" for Name, too (browser).
<Nafallo> http://pastebin.com/m66f6b6c5
<nand`> persia: ok
<persia> Fujitsu: Umm.. I think it was feisty when I was first told to wait for the spec to be implemented before adding more...
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, great...
<Nafallo> hehe. should have started a gobby :-{
<Nafallo> :-P
<Fujitsu> blueyed: Which spec? fd.o?
<blueyed> yes.
 * Fujitsu prefers to obey the GNOME HIG.
<persia> Does anyone write in languages other than German, French, English, or Swedish?  Would you be willing to help?
<Fujitsu> persia: Surely you do?
<persia> Fujitsu: Erm.  I don't trust my grammar, but I can try a couple.
<pkern> Debian supports the esoteric ppc netboot. <3 <3 <3
<persia> norsetto: You've surely a translation to contribute, no?
<norsetto> persia: yes, I'm stuck on the GenericName
<nand`> I'll say "Trouve et efface les fichiers inutilisÃ©s"
 * Fujitsu heads to bed, leaving an ARM stage-two debootstrap running.
<joumetal> persia Finnish "Etsii ja poistaa tarpeettomia tiedostoja"
<persia> Fujitsu: Thank you :)
<Fujitsu> persia: I finally found a kernel that works, and it seems to be going OK.
<persia> joumetal: Two phrases: "Hitta och ta bort onÃ¶diga filer" and "Filsystemsrensare"
<nand`> et "Nettoyeur du systeme de fichier"
<norsetto> rospo_zoppo: have a look at this: http://pastebin.com/m1bd33fe1
 * persia jumps for joy and imagines running teg on the train
<Fujitsu> teg?
<nand`> proppy: "Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutilsÃ©s" && "Nettoyeur du systeme de fichier" ou "nettoyeur du disque dur". What do you think?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: you mean last line?
<proppy> nand`:  "Trouve et efface les fichiers inutilisÃ©s" ACK
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: yes, does it make sense to you?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: actually I don't know the meaning of "ramazza" :)
<nand`> proppy: le second est plus ambigu
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: its too bad the verb scopare has such a double meaning in italian ;-)
<joumetal> persia other is "tiedostojÃ¤rjestelmÃ¤n siivoaja" it's quite long
<nand`> oups
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: lol
<persia> joumetal: long is fine: it's finnish :)
<proppy> nand`: nettoyeur vs balayeur ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: should we do something about that ?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: well, can't find anything better than that
<proppy> blueyed: s/Trouver et effacer les fichiers inutilisÃ©s/Trouve et efface les fichiers inutilisÃ©s/
<proppy> blueyed: If you want something Imperative
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: what a funny .desktop file :)
<proppy> blueyed: just like nand`suggested
<nand`> proppy: nettoyeur sounds nicer to me
 * persia gives up on grammar
<blueyed> http://pastebin.com/d78034dc
<proppy> nand`: what about ramasse miette ?:)
<nand`> proppy: :D To me, it refers to a garbage collector!
<proppy> nand`: It's kinda like a garbage collector :)
<proppy> nand`: it goes throught your filesystem and collect garbage :)
<blueyed> joumetal: I'll add finnish from you..
<persia> nand`: Does nettoyeur not make you think of fsck?
<nand`> proppy: Hmm... It's really a strange word to describe a computer program!
<norsetto> nand`: you should see some of his programs .....
<nand`> proppy: Not at all.
<nand`> persia: no.
<proppy> (02:34:14 PM) blueyed: It helps with deletion. It finds empty files/dirs, broken symlinks/execs, orphaned files (based on package system), dead menu entries, obsolete thumbnails and duplicated files.
<proppy> (
 * blueyed notices that finnish is in as "sv", correct?
<Nafallo> blueyed: what?
<Nafallo> blueyed: fi != sv
<nand`> proppy: Ok... I'd definitely use the word "nettoyeur" then
<blueyed> ok. But then we have no "fi" yet.. Thought so.
<proppy> nand`: ok :)
<nand`> proppy: "balayeur" sounds like it involves the use of a balai :)
<proppy> nand`: and ramasse miette refers to another computer function ?
<Nafallo> 13:56 < joumetal> persia Finnish "Etsii ja poistaa tarpeettomia tiedostoja"
<Nafallo> blueyed: ^
<nand`> proppy: so "Nettoyeur de systÃ¨me de fichier" ?
<persia> Nafallo: (23:03:57) blueyed: joumetal: I'll add finnish from you..
<nand`> proppy: The only time I read of a "ramasse miette" was on one of the java doc translations :)
 * Nafallo still thinks we need desktop.ubuntu.com gobby server ;-)
<proppy> nand`: de systeme de fichier vs du systeme de fichier ?
<Nafallo> persia: he just said we have no fi yet :-)
<joumetal> blueyed ok You can add if it isn't already there.
<Nafallo> anyway. you guys have me confused now, so I'll go back to hiding ;-)
<blueyed> http://pastebin.com/d78e59226
<blueyed> (sorted and with finnish)
 * persia still wants GenericName[pl], but acknowledges that the necessary data is missing
<nand`> proppy: "du" will mean "cleaner of *the* filesystem", "de" will mean "filesystem cleaner" in a general sense. IMO Both are acceptable
<blueyed> persia: maybe Comment[pl] is also slighty fuzzy now. But better than nothing IMHO
<proppy> blueyed: s/Balayeur du/Nettoyeur de/
<persia> blueyed: I'll agree to that, but unless you want to troll #ubuntu-pl, I think we'll have to live with it.
 * nand` finds translating french to english not as easy as he thought.
<proppy> blueyed: http://pastebin.com/m1f3eabfa
 * persia wonders if someone wants a new upstream to package
<blueyed> proppy: thanks.
 * nand` wonders if there is not a more effective way to translate a .desktop file :)
<persia> nand`: The thought patterns differ considerably :)
 * blueyed checks #ubuntu-pl
<persia> nand`: Not yet.  There's a spec...
<nand`> persia: A web based one, I hope.
<persia> nand`: An extension to Rosetta
<persia> (can be web-based, or not, depending on translator workflow)
<nand`> I'll show you all what is a french garbage collector! http://www.carre-lutz.com/acatalog/cl15000011.JPG
<persia> nand`: That's a nice one
<gene6482> persia: what was that link you sent me last night, about bitesize bugs?
<nand`> hehe
<persia> Hrm.  Does this work...
<persia> !bitesize | gene6482
<ubotu> gene6482: A list of bugs that are considered easy to fix and good for beginners to attempt can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<proppy> nand`: I-TECH one  http://www.brison-sa.be/images/S48DMR6.gif
<gene6482> persia: thanks again
<persia> gene6482: No problem.  Thanks for helping.
<DaveMorris> I've just noticed that in the software I'm packageing, i386 builds by default with -O2 where as amd64 uses -O3 -fexpensive-optimizations  Whats the standard for pacakges in ubuntu?
<persia> DaveMorris: We usually build most things with -O2, although there are hundreds of exceptions due to compilation behaviour or package-specific needs.
<persia> (possibly even thousands)
<nand`> proppy: wohoo. They still sell these things!
<DaveMorris> ok, should I change it with a patch then or should I leave it?
<persia> DaveMorris: It depends on why it's there.  If there's a good reason, and you can work around the -fPIC issue, you probably want to keep it.  If it's just for fun, I don't see the point.
<blueyed> Thanks for all your desktop-file help.. :) I'll wait a bit, if I get a reply in #ubuntu-pl and then get it attached to the bug.
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<proppy> norsetto: show me your code !
<norsetto> proppy: in public!?
<persia> blueyed: Thanks for asking: most .desktop files are in only one or two languages.
<proppy> norsetto: I don't give up so easily on (03:04:40 PM) norsetto: nand`: you should see some of his programs .....
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: do you know any prolog?
<persia> norsetto: don't poison his mind...
<proppy> norsetto: No but I want to learn !
<norsetto> proppy: it was a funny language actually, back when people still believed that AI was not an oxymoron
<proppy> norsetto: I want to learn what oxymoron means too !
<joejaxx> custom AI languages ftw!
<joejaxx> :D
 * joejaxx goes back to idle
<proppy> joejaxx: you mean lisp ?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> :P
<proppy> joejaxx: custom lisp for everyone !
<joejaxx> lolol
<pkern> ('fun ('is ('fun)))
<pkern> *cough*
<proppy> ((('fun) 'is) 'funnier)
<persia> norsetto: I'd suggest that determination of oxymoronicity depends on the definition of "Artificial"
<norsetto> persia: turing defined it pretty well,since his test was based on human perception
<persia> norsetto: Do you mean the "Turing test", as "tell me if I am male or female when I am in fact a computer"?
<norsetto> persia: the very one
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  It's been run once, you know.  I was more suggesting the possibility of machine intelligence, but likely not through algorithmic intent.
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<norsetto> persia: Aren't we machines? still we demote ourselves intelligent (well, not all admittedly....)
<persia> joejaxx: http://people.simons-rock.edu/cameo/gender/
<rexbron> Hobbsee: I was told you were looking for me?
<persia> norsetto: That was my point.  It depends on what one considers "Artificial", rather than what one considers "Intelligence".
<norsetto> persia: thats why I said the reference is human
<Hobbsee> rexbron: yeah, but i think i found my answer.  good work on the international clock :)
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  Right.
<rexbron> Thanks :0
<rexbron> :)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: the question was about which version to use
<Hobbsee> rexbron: is it going to get into 2.22, btw?
<persia> rexbron: You have an international clock tool?  I have an interest in knowing exactly when it's Monday.
<rexbron> Hobbsee: No idea, I am not really a dev
<rexbron> persia: look for intlclock on lp
<Hobbsee> persia: did you want a i386 deb?
<persia> rexbron: Ah.  Not ready yet.  Will it be able to answer the question "is it Monday", or does it just report the current time for a specified place.
<persia> Hobbsee: Can't use it.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, amd64.  right.
<Hobbsee> persia: use http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ for the former
<Hobbsee> persia: and the answer is the latter
<rexbron> persia: the advantage to intlclock is that you can associate people with timezones and locations and know exactly what their local time is
 * persia grumbles about the lack of tools to determine Monday and the lack of internal motivation to write one
<joejaxx> persia: :P
<persia> rexbron: Ah.  That's actually somewhat interesting.
<joejaxx> hello slomo :)
<rexbron> persia: re: genpo, I may have accidentally uploaded an old rev (not sure how...)
<persia> rexbron: That's what it looked like :(  It will likely get in next week, as long as you can sort that out.
<rexbron> sure
<proppy> persia: is there an apt-get installable command line interactive version of the turing test ?
<persia> proppy: The URL I posted above is the only actual research of the original turing test of which I've ever heard.
<persia> proppy: I think there is some code there, if not the researchers may be willing to share.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> bddebian: Did you ever get conquest sorted?
<bddebian> persia: I have a package but I need someone to look at it and of course getting no response :(
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  Well then, I'm guilty.  What's the URL again?
<proppy> I think I'm in love
<proppy>  Human: are you a he or a she ?
<proppy>  ALICE: I am a  female robot.  Are you a man or a woman?
<persia> proppy: If you like ALICE, you might also want to check out what Mel McGee was doing with her plastic skeleton
<proppy>  Human: how old are you ?
<proppy>  ALICE: I am  11 in human years.
<proppy> too bad :(
<proppy> persia: thanks but let's stop procrastination :)
<bddebian> persia: Well no one else responded either. :-(  http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/conquest/
<persia> bddebian: If I used that excuse, I wouldn't have to do much :)
<bddebian> heh
<persia> proppy: procrastination?  I want you to get interested so that I can stick an audio-interface computer in my pocket and have it whisper useful things in my ear in a context-sensitive manner.
<bddebian> heh
<proppy> bddebian: "a real-time, multi-player space warfare game" sounds good
 * persia flushes conquest through the standard REVU tests
<joejaxx> lol
<proppy> bddebian: "(curses client)" wtf ? :)
<bddebian> Hey I'm just fixing up an existing package
<bddebian> You might be more interested in the Thousand Parsec packages I'm working on then :)
<joejaxx> bddebian: what is that about?
<proppy> persia: need Mel McGee screenshots
<bddebian> Well it's really more of a client/server thing but there are games built around it:  http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/
<proppy> proppy: I mean real shot
<proppy> bddebian: Is it also curse based ?
<persia> proppy: ?  photos?  I thought you wanted the code.
<bddebian> persia: No, they have clients in C, Python, and Python gtk
<proppy> persia: you told be about a wearable computer :)
<bddebian> Err proppy
<persia> proppy: Yep.
<persia> bddebian: No, I want conquest because it's not getting attention.  At least someone has talked to you about Thousand Parsecs
<bddebian> They have?
<proppy> bddebian: "Thousand Parsec is a framework for turn based space empire building games. " nice catch thanks for sharing
<pkern> bddebian: You think you're getting old when you look at astronut?
<bddebian> pkern: I can honestly say I'm twic the man he is. ;-)
<bddebian> +e
<proppy> persia: interesting, they write their textbot using a search engine :)
<persia> proppy: Isn't it?  It changes the paradigm for the whole context tracking thing...
<persia> bddebian: I distinctly remember someone asking you to look at it: perhaps I am mistaken.
<bddebian> persia: Yeah Baby asked me to do it but that doesn't mean anyone is helping me or looking at anything I do :-)
<proppy> persia: oups they only referred this as a source of improvment for the actual bot
<pkern> bddebian: I couldn't buy alcohol in the US neither.
<pkern> bddebian: Or rather I wouldn't be allowed to.
 * pkern opens a beer. ;)
<persia> bddebian: Well, you're a general force for good.  Were it otherwise, you'd be tossed in a basket.
<bddebian> pkern: You suck too ;-P
<joejaxx> pbuilder ftw!
<pkern> bddebian: <3
<joejaxx> keeping my system clean from random build depends
<persia> bddebian: That's just still a mess, and doesn't actually use debhelper as much as it might. (although it's not nearly as disturbing as it was previously).  I can't do it justice tonight, but I'll keep it around for when I have time.
<bddebian> persia: Why a mess?
<persia> bddebian: quick list that made me want to spend more time: 1) lots of manual code in the maintainer scripts, 2) we have sgml, but we aren't generating the manpages, 3) lots of changes outside debian/.
<persia> OK.  Maybe not "lots", but any at all seems non-preferable.
<persia> bddebian: Just to make it clear, it is now comprehensible, whereas it was previously completely opaque.
<persia> (e.g., previously I wouldn't have known how to start without a complete repackaging)
<persia> s/e.g./i.e./
<joejaxx> why does dual screen on ubunt gutsy fail :(
<joejaxx> ubuntu*
<joejaxx> :P
<SWAT> joejaxx, works perfectly here
<bddebian> persia: Oh aye there
<persia> joejaxx: It doesn't for everyone.  Works for me (although I had to play with three or four different control panels)
<SWAT> meta-package question: is it 'nice' to use dh_make and set the dependencies and then add files/changes to the package? (using rules)
 * persia stares wonderingly at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-November/000498.html
<joejaxx> persia: are you using the open source drivers?
<persia> joejaxx: No.
<joejaxx> persia: :(
<persia> SWAT: Could you rephrase that, or give an example?
<SWAT> persia, meta-package for installing my desktop + certain applications + default wallpaper etc.
<joejaxx> persia: he did not say that it was a windows binary
<persia> joejaxx: it's in the blog entry
<Hobbsee> persia: what about it?
 * joejaxx REALLY does not want multiverse to become the next download.com
<SWAT> indeed, he conveniently forgot to mention that on the mailinglist
<persia> SWAT: I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "nice", and don't understand how you will be adding the files
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: especially seeing as we're supposed to be inadvertantly supproting it
<joejaxx> persia: i know but it still would have been nice to put that in the direct view of read eyes
<joejaxx> instead of on a secondary link
<joejaxx> > While Progress Quest has a very permissive license, its source
<joejaxx> > code hasn't been made publicly available.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm just surprised that windows executatbles would even be considered, but I suppose the lack of explicit mention in the email may explain that.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: OTOH, that'll stop people downloading from an outsider link, etc.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah well.
<joejaxx> that makes it sound like it is a linux binary
<joejaxx> as you could not run it on ubuntu even if the source was open
<joejaxx> unless someone ported it
 * persia has already published an opinion on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<SWAT> persia, I was thinking about treating it as if I were packaging a normal package and then do all the important stuff in the rules (like copying files etc.). I'm very open to suggestions
<persia> SWAT: So you're looking to build a -settings package?
<rexbron> persia: I did upload an old version of genpo, sorry about that :)
<SWAT> persia, I guess so
<Hobbsee> to be fair though, the way wine integrates is very nice.  why not go further?
<persia> rexbron: No worries.  Just reupload a newer one, and the next review will surely be more positive.
<rexbron> :)
<joejaxx> SWAT: dh_make should be fine :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Isn't that why wine-doors exists?
<joejaxx> SWAT: you can use dh_install to copy files as long as it does not modify/replace another package's files
<persia> SWAT: You can certainly do that.  I'd suggest using a Makefile at the root for your basic installation, just to make debian/rules clean, unless you're basing it off an upstream tarball.
<SWAT> joejaxx, thanks, I was thinking about doing that (as long as it's a good/nice way to do it)
<Hobbsee> persia: true, but it's the question of which works better
<joejaxx> SWAT: a meta just a regular package with no source
<joejaxx> SWAT: think of it that way :D
<Hobbsee> this looks a lot like flashplugin-nonfree
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, until someone fixes bug #130032, ubuntu-specific packaging is better.  Once that is closed, I'd think we'd see better maintenance by collaborating between distros, rather than packaging for specific distros, especially as we're looking to preserve binary compatibility, rather than just source compatibility for that class of programs.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130032 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Wine-doors" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130032
<SWAT> wine-doors is, well, I'm not impressed. I haven't tested it too well it, but afaik it doesn't have the support of the wine team (sadly)
<persia> Hobbsee: But flashplugin-nonfree is a wrapper to download an md5sum certified binary from a vendor site.  This is just a blob that got uploaded.
<Hobbsee> persia: i think it'd be worthwhile doing pq, if the uploader is committed to be the maintainer - forever.
<Hobbsee> and him be listed as the maintainer, and teh MOTU field not being there.
<persia> Hobbsee: How can we know what it is?  How can we know whether to trust it?  Would you sign it?
<Hobbsee> persia: the blob?
<persia> Hobbsee: Or the package containing the blob?
<Hobbsee> persia: i would have thought the fact that we werent maintainer of it meant that we werent responsible
<Hobbsee> that depends.  do i have a probelm signing libdvdread3 for the same reason?
<Hobbsee> no
<persia> Hobbsee: MOTU is responsible for all of universe and multiverse.  We often delegate, but we cannot abdicate.
<Hobbsee> and that's main.
<persia> Hobbsee: from where does libdvdread come?
<Hobbsee> er, debian originally
<Hobbsee> the question is where libdvdcss2 comes from :)
<persia> Hobbsee: libdvdcss2 is open-source.  I don't see how it's related.
<Hobbsee> and how it's obtained.
<Hobbsee> persia: are you sure?  the dvd content descrambler?
<Hobbsee> i thought that was illegal in most countries - unless that's changed recently.
<persia> Hobbsee: I compiled it locally.
<Hobbsee> how did you get the source?
<Hobbsee> install-css.sh?
<persia> Hobbsee: illegal to use without a content license (you need to work for a movie company or equipment manufacturer, where equipment may include software)
<Hobbsee> ah right
<persia> Hobbsee: No.  I worked for a major motion picture studio, and just didn't wipe my hard drive when I left.
<Hobbsee> ahhh....sneaky?
<Hobbsee> s/?//
<persia> Not really different than install-css.sh.  Still, the point is the code is available.  Thats open-source, non-free.  PQ is closed-source free.
<Hobbsee> oh, true, i guess you can actually get the source for that.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> i was thinking of wgetting the binary - and not knowing fi they've chucked something else there instead.
<Hobbsee> and not knowing if that would be the same, forever
<persia> For a major vendor, (e.g. microsoft, apple, oracle, adobe) the user can decide whether they trust the vendor, and we provide cryptographic tools to demonstrate the code hasn't been modified.  For PQ, it's just an anonymous blob.  The upstream forums don't lend an attitude of trust either (and aren't family safe)
<Hobbsee> true
<persia> Hobbsee: if someone wgets a binary without checking the signature, that's their risk, but I don't see the point of institutionalising it.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> . o O { we really should fix that, too }
<joejaxx> sha512sum :D
<joejaxx> :P
<persia> We just need a policy.  Someone should poke someone who can make a decision.
<rexbron> persia: Also on genpo, Is the lack of an icon going to be an issue? If so I can look into either making one myself or getting a community member to do so.
<superm1> persia, i'm still not particularly sure why libdvdcss2 isn't in multiverse though.  Items with questionable licensing such as lame can sit there.
<persia> rexbron: It makes the menus look ugly.  If you can get an icon, it would be better.  If you can't, someone will make one before hardy gets released.
<rexbron> persia: is there a bug list for packages that need icons?
<persia> superm1: Because it's actually illegal for most people to use in an active way, rather than the code not respecting a patent, etc.
<superm1> persia, ah i see.
<rexbron> courtsy of the MPAA's legal dept.
<rexbron> oh and the DMCA
<persia> rexbron: No, but if you install the menu-xdg package, the "Other" menu gets cluttered with lots of programs that don't have icons.
<superm1> that isn't made clear by a lot of the internet.  everyone just puts it off as they aren't sure about it.
<persia> rexbron: No, it's not only that, it's also that they keys are considered private information: it's not all that different from my stealing your passwords and keyrings.
<rexbron> persia: yes and no. I disagree with the idea that someone can copywrite a number. To me, it seems like trying to claim a copyright on the alphabet.
<persia> superm1The difficulty is that nobody has come up with a reasonable way to do key escrow in a legal manner.  If there was a libdvdcss2 compatible library that used a user-provided set of keys, which the user could collect from somewhere (or just invent), and several parties could release media differently encrypted, it would be legal.
<warp10> Hi all!
<joejaxx> hi
<persia> rexbron: It's not about the copyright of a number.  It's about key exchange.  You can't have my private key.  If you steal it, that's theft.  It's not about my copyright on my key, it's about it being my key.
<joejaxx> warp10: Welcome to #ubuntu-motu
<rexbron> persia: if I figure it out myself, is that still theft?
 * persia notes that this issue is extra confusing because the use of the keys is considered copyright violation
<warp10> joejaxx: thank you! :)
<joejaxx> warp10: you are most welcome
<persia> rexbron: No, but hacking me is a hostile act.
<rexbron> persia: but lets say that you sold the lock that the key goes into and I figure out how it works and tell people, suddenly that becomes theft? Theft of what, intelectual property?
<joejaxx> lol
<persia> Just to be clear: I'm not attempting to defend the secrecy of the keys, nor the current copyright regime, just to separate the copyright violation (viewing a DVD without a device created by a license holder) from the knowledge of the keys (holding someone else's password)
<persia> rexbron: Yes, lock-picking is typically not considered a wholesome activity, except under certain constraints.
<rexbron> sure, but you were playing devil's advoate
<rexbron> :)
<joejaxx> a balanced view is always the best :)
<persia> rexbron: No.  I'm specifically not an MPAA advocate (or I'd still work for a major motion picture studio), but wanted to clarify that there are two distinct issues involved: one the inappropriate ownership of the key, and the other the viewing of the content.
<rexbron> What is your position on fair use? ie, being able to have your legaly owned dvd's work with your linux based operating system?
<persia> This separation is important to explain why libdvdcss2 is not appropriate for multiverse.  It doesn't matter that it is only useful to view encrypted DVDs, it's important that the keys are considered private, and distribution of the keys is no different than the locksmith making two copies of your housekey (his blank: the shape is just information), labelling them with your address, and providing them to anyone who requests it.
 * rexbron also gets anoyed when the DMCA gets abused
<persia> rexbron: Personally, I think everyone should have the ability to make a backup, and watch things on linux, but that has nothing to do with the suitability of a specific piece of software for multiverse.
<rexbron> In so far as when we go from advocates to activists
 * persia apologises generally for the ranting about software licensing, and goes to sleep.
<proppy> japan time, see you tomorrow
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: ping
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: looks like you're the last uploader for exaile - any plans to update it?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, wanted to do it yourself?
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: i could.  but not when it's almost 4am :)
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, new debian revision ready to be merged?
<bluekuja> or new upstream release?
<Hobbsee> no - just a new upstream
<bluekuja> already in debian?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> dont see a wishlist bug there either, actually
 * Hobbsee was just looking at it, and ntoiced it was out of date
 * Hobbsee wants to see if it actually works with her laptop keys
<bluekuja> oh ok, well I can do it tomorrow or the day after
<Hobbsee> cool
<bluekuja> so we can have it updated for the weekend
<bluekuja> I guess
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<bluekuja> gonna update you as soon as the package is ready
<bluekuja> thanks for updating me about its status ;)
<Hobbsee> no problem.  thansk for that :)
<bluekuja> :)
<superm1_> would another motu be able to do a revu/ack of any of the mythtv-theme-** packages i have up on revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-blootube  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-blootube-osd  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-blootubelite-wide http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-neon-wide http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-projectgrayhem-
<superm1_> osd http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-projectgrayhem http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-blootube-wide
<geser> superm1_: I just looked at the fist package. Shouldn't the license text be included in the orig.tar.gz instead of the diff.gz?
<superm1_> geser, they don't ship it
<superm1_> so i didn't want to put it in even though i was repackaging it
<superm1_> they only mention it in the README.txt
<superm1_> and link to it at the CC website
<geser> superm1_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#CommonMistakes says that the upstream tarball should include a verbatim copy of the license text
<geser> is by-nc-sa considered free / ok for universe?
<ion_> Probably not.
<geser> superm1_: could you add the name of the licence to debian/copyright so it's easier to see which licence it is?
<pkern> geser: Of course it's not ok.
<pkern> geser: As "nc" implys.
<geser> ok, thanks
<jeromeg> hello
<jeromeg> does someone know if it's possible to ask a backport for feisty from a hardy package ?
<Amaranth> If a package is in feisty but got removed from gutsy how can I get it into hardy?
<Amaranth> It shouldn't have been removed, it got caught up in the 'remove beryl' fun
<StevenK> But why does Beryl need to be in Ubuntu ... ?
<geser> Amaranth: like any other new package
<Amaranth> geser: I don't want to do a new upload :P
<Amaranth> Nothing has changed...
<Amaranth> StevenK: it doesn't, emerald-themes does though
<StevenK> Can emerald-themes be dragged against Compiz?
<StevenK> You will need to re-upload it, too
<drsatyri> hello all
<drsatyri> i have a question about a merge im trying to commit
<drsatyri> er, do
<drsatyri> nevermind :)
<norsetto> drsatyri: if you don't ask your question its a bit difficult to give you an answer
<mok0> When compiling a 32 bit app under amd64, where do I get /lib32/libm.so from? Can't find the package
<Lutin> mok0: apt-file search lib32/libm.so says that libc6-dev-i386 contains usr/lib32/libm.so
<Lutin> and libc6-i386 , /lib32/libm.so.6
<mok0> Lutin: Thanks
<mok0> I was using apt-cache, it didn't report anything (?)
<Lutin> apt-cache searches for packages, not files
<mok0> Lutin: You learn something every day :-)
<Lutin> :)
<mok0> Lutin: That means I need to make a Build-Depends: libc6-dev-i386, but only when on amd64. How should that be handled?
<Lutin> mok0: Build-Depends: package [amd64]
<Lutin> mok0: it doesn't compile on amd64 ?
<CyberMatt> could somone check over this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inspircd for me
<mok0> Lutin: no
<mok0> There is both fortran and C code
<Lutin> mok0: ok
<Lutin> CyberMatt: the base package ames from unstable ?
<somerville32> Okay.
<somerville32> I downloaded xfce4-session from MoM and the patch it uses has changes that I'm not sure where they come from.
<somerville32> Maybe I should ask keybuk
<somerville32> But he isn't around at the moment.
<CyberMatt> no i saw it in the mentors interface it hadn't been updated in like 4 months so i updated
<Lutin> CyberMatt: you should try to get in touch with the initial packager :)
<CyberMatt> i did
<CyberMatt> been a month
<Lutin> somerville32: xfce4-session doesn't seem to be listed on MoM
<somerville32> Lutin, thats because I already merged it and uploaded
<somerville32> But apparently it removed a patch that is not obsolete and I can not find where that change was made except in the patch the MoM applied to the package.
<Lutin> weird
<somerville32> The diff for the package is different than the "patch" MoM has.
<somerville32> I'm not sure how it is generated.
<somerville32> And now it makes me scared that MoM has made other changes that aren't so healthy
<LaserJock> somerville32: you shouldn't just blindly use MoM output
<Lutin> well the patches MoM applies sure don't come from nowhere ...
<somerville32> This is confusing. The diff between the old package diff and the <old package>.patch is rather weird. Big delta.
<LaserJock> somerville32: did you check the versions the diffs are against?
<somerville32> diff -Nur xfce4-session_4.4.1-1.diff xfce4-session_4.4.1-1ubuntu4.patch > moo
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> That might be why
<somerville32> one sec :P
<somerville32> no delta
<mr_pouit> this patch has been forgotten on all previous merges
<somerville32> Looks like there is other stuff deleted too
<somerville32> Ok, this is starting to make some sense.
<somerville32> I officially want to stab mom in the face :/
 * LaserJock again wonders why somerville32 is looking at MoM :-)
<somerville32> LaserJock, Why wouldn't I?
<LaserJock> why would you? ;-)
<somerville32> Mom has always done me well in the past.
<LaserJock> MoM output is fine to look at
<LaserJock> but when you want to actually do a merge you should first look at the packages
<LaserJock> then you won't be confused (or less so) by MoM
<somerville32> Ok, the diff for the new debian package shows that it added debian/watch
<somerville32> And the patch generated by MoM removes it.
<somerville32> None of the other diffs even talk about debian/watch
<LaserJock> if you've already seen the diffs then you'll have a better understanding of what MoMs trying to do
<drsatyri> how do i sign .dsc and .changes files after ive checked all of the similar files for diffs in a merge?
<StevenK> drsatyri: Use debsign <.dsc>
<drsatyri> maintainer should be "Ubuntu MOTU Developers" in the control, right?
<geser> usually yes
<rexbron> Hey everyone! Genpo has been updated (with the proper revision this time) and is up for review. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
 * somerville32 cheers.
 * somerville32 has overcome the MoM disaster of today.
<huats> norsetto: hey
<huats> I having a weird stuff
<huats> I am looking to do a merge...
<huats> and there is something I understand...
<nxvl> huats: i was looking for you
<huats> nxvl: really ?
<huats> :)
<geser> huats: how is understand something a problem?
<nxvl> huats: the D Maintainer send me an e-mail. he want your patch
<huats> nxvl: first time someone is looking for me
<nxvl> huats: whats your e-mail to forward his?
<nxvl> jajjaja
<huats> nxvl: christophe.sauthier@gmail.com
<drsatyri> when would you include the orig.tar.gz?
<huats> geser: here is the pb http://paste.ubuntu.com/1751/
<huats> I dont see the diff :)
<huats> so I don't know why the merge is a pb....
<huats> if you have an idea :)
<nxvl> sent
<huats> nxvl: great
<huats> I will have a look
<huats> thanks
<nxvl> huats: he tell me to do it, but it's your work, so it's better you to take the credit :D
<huats> nxvl: it is no big deal...
<huats> you could have done it
<huats> but thanks anyway
<huats> I 'll have a look at your mail
<nxvl> huats: i know, but it's a good practice to do that way, i prefer it :D
<huats> nxvl: ok
<huats> geser: have you spot my pb ?
<nxvl> huats: just an advice, use uuencode for the image
<huats> I think I did
<huats> no ?
<geser> huats: have you checked the amount of white space? or are some tabs with white space replaced?
<huats> geser: I will..
<huats> geser: that was my guess
<huats> but I was wondering if there was something I haven't seen
<geser> I see no difference
<huats> apparently the second line used  a tab before while now it is many spaces...
<huats> geser: ok, so that part of the merge will be easy :)
<drsatyri> i have a problem with a merge and signing the changes: "clearsign failed: secret key not available"
<StevenK> drsatyri: Compare the Changed-By line in the changes file, and what name, comment and e-mail is on your key
<drsatyri> my key?
<StevenK> You don't have a GPG key?
<drsatyri> i will shortly! :)
<drsatyri> (ive never successfully merged before)
<geser> drsatyri: signing is only important if you want to upload the package somewhere
<geser> for a debdiff signing isn't needed
<drsatyri> oh. so i should just package this up and make a launchpad bug?
<geser> drsatyri: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging section "Build, check and report"
<huats> nxvl: I still haven't received your email
<somerville32> Who wanted me to test gcompris last night?
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> huats: in junk?
<huats> nxvl: :)
<huats> nxvl: indeeed...
<nxvl> :D
<huats> nxvl: what do you want to send him exactly ?
<huats> I have to admit it is a bit far away from me :)
<nxvl> huats: he want your patch, the one you write for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/efax-gtk/+bug/108746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<huats> ok
<huats> I will send him
<huats> geser: what do I do if I spot something stupid in the new version I have to merge ?
<huats> I mean two identical lines in a row...
<joejaxx> huats: link to merge?
<joejaxx> MoM might have gotten a bit confused ;)
<norsetto> huats: what lines?
<huats> joejaxx: http://dad.dunnewind.net/dbmail/
<huats> joejaxx: it was dad
<huats> norsetto: hey
<huats> norsetto: in the postinst file
<joejaxx> huats: i see what you mean
<huats>         rm ${CONFIG_EX} ${DEBIAN_CONFIG_EX}
<huats>                 
<huats> +       rm ${CONFIG_EX} ${DEBIAN_CONFIG_EX}
<huats> so it means that now there are 2 identical lines in a row...
<somerville32> huats, so get rid of it :P
<huats> somerville32: that was my idea...
<huats> by I wanted to be sure...
<somerville32> :)
<joejaxx> huats: look at the debian patch
<somerville32> automatic merges aren't perfect.
<norsetto> huats: that was one of the previous ubuntu changes most probably
<joejaxx> debian has it
<joejaxx> http://dad.dunnewind.net/dbmail/dbmail_2.2.7-1.patch
<huats> joejaxx: yep
<joejaxx> that line anyway
<norsetto> huats: which has been done upstream or by debian, so, no need to add it (and pls. delete it from changelog)
<joejaxx> huats: ^ :D
 * joejaxx is getting better at the merges :D
<norsetto> huats: yes, that was an old ubuntu change
<huats> norsetto: it was indeed...
<somerville32> Don't delete it from the changelog
<somerville32> Just note that you removed the delta
<huats> somerville32: I will note in the changelog that I have removed it...
<somerville32> huats, Awesome :)
<drsatyri> ok now the manual says make two debdiffs...what should those both be named?
<norsetto> drsatyri: doesn't really matter as long as its clear what is what
<drsatyri> so one could have the XubuntuX and one not
<huats> norsetto: always the right word
<TheMuso> .c
<TheMuso> uh
<TheMuso> hey folks
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<huats> hey TheMuso
<somerville32> drsatyri, What are you packaging?
<drsatyri> hardware-manager
<drsatyri> im posting it on launchpad no
<norsetto> drsatyri: the name doesn't matter, use something which makes it clear to which version is referring; for instance ubuntu_vs_ubuntu.debdiff and ubuntu_vs.debian.debdiff
<drsatyri> *now
<drsatyri> cool ok
<drsatyri> this all makes a lot more sense once you do one :P
<norsetto> drsatyri: please check the size before uploading .... check what is in the guide
<drsatyri> yeah i saw that, ill make sure i do
 * norsetto still remembers the bug report with 5 10 MB patches ....
<RainCT> Hey
<drsatyri> hooray
<somerville32> :)
<drsatyri> i dids it.
<drsatyri> my first merge
<drsatyri> i feel so proud im gonna go do another
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> You go girl!
<drsatyri> .
<drsatyri> now im not proud
<joejaxx> LOL
<drsatyri> < proud
<joejaxx> somerville32: you need to whois before you sad that lmao
<joejaxx> say*
<RainCT> hehe
<RainCT> drsatyri: gratz :)
<somerville32> joejaxx, Didn't you get the memo? Everyone on the internetz is a girl now.
<ajmitch> news to me
<rexbron> zomg, teh girlz, on teh intarweb?
 * rexbron cowers in the silence
<RainCT> lol
<geser> is it already X-mas?
 * rexbron wants to make a law that there can be no christmas ads/music untill december
<Zelut> +1 rexbron
 * somerville32 is refusing to watch TV
<rexbron> One of the dept stores near my flat had a xman display up on Oct 30th. WTH
<somerville32> rexbron, It is a rule.
<somerville32> They were a little early though
<somerville32> Should have been November 1st
<rexbron> :P
<Zelut> rexbron: the christmas "spirit" has been found to make people want to spend money so businesses love it
<geser> rexbron: add christmas sweets to that list
<somerville32> Stop!! :P
 * somerville32 gets craving for Christmas sweets.
<somerville32> Damn you.
<rexbron> oh, i know all about what it does to people
<ajmitch> rexbron: such music should only start on the 25th of december
<geser> somerville32: I've seen here the first christmas sweets already in october
<somerville32> What is the Chinese country code?
<StevenK> somerville32: .cn
<somerville32> thanks
<bmk789> anyone here know PHP?
 * pkern shrugs.
<somerville32> bmk789, As much as I know French
<bmk789> how much is that?
<ajmitch> you may have better luck in a php channel, if you have a question
<somerville32> I can read bits of it but I can't write much
<bmk789> ok ill check #php
<pkern> It's off-topic in here, too, if it isn't about packaging PHP stuff. ;)
<huats> It is a shame it is not french... I could have helped
<huats> :)
<somerville32> pkern, We're generally offtopic in here:P
<huats> bmk789: if it not offtopic maybe I can help also in php...
<bmk789> well its not packaging, its just a couple lines of code arent doing what i need
<norsetto> amazing what cheesy packages we have in revu
<somerville32> norsetto, lol
<somerville32> norsetto, Are you talking about my package? :P
<norsetto> somerville32: :-)
<somerville32> Oh  crap
<somerville32> Someone has uploaded it before me
<somerville32> From August
<somerville32> so all good
<pkern> ajmitch: Christmas is evening of 24th here.
<norsetto> somerville32: can you nuke it?
<somerville32> norsetto, No need.
<norsetto> somerville32: ah, you don't like fondue ....
<somerville32> fondue?
<norsetto> somerville32: litterally translated "fused cheese which you can eat with bread on a stick"
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> I'm going to need help with that package.
<somerville32> I can't see where the desktop file is generated and lintain complains about it
<huats> norsetto: I am dure you enjoy fondues and raclettes
<huats> somerville32: you are lucky, norsetto is the desktop file guy... He loves them
<somerville32> :]
<norsetto> huats: doh?
<RainCT> bmk789: still searching someone who knows PHP?
<huats> norsetto: I can remember clearly that one day you told me you had enough with fixing desktop files ....
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: so I was a bit ironic :D
<norsetto> huats: no, I had enough of sponsoring them ....
<somerville32> norsetto, I can't find it is gernated.
<somerville32> norsetto, Can you help? :)
<huats> norsetto: oh that was a direct punch in work so :D
<huats> somerville32:  which bug ?
<somerville32> no bug
<somerville32> On revu
<huats> somerville32: ok
<somerville32> I just uploaded a new version
<somerville32> Should be available in a minute or two
<bmk789> RainCT: yes
<RainCT> bmk789: I might be able to help
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cheese
<somerville32> Can someone help me with my package? I can't seem to find where the .desktop file is generated and lintian complains about it.
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cheese
<geser> somerville32: what error do you get?
<somerville32> Creating new top level or something
<geser> somerville32: does it really generate one and doesn't use that one http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/cheese-0711062240/cheese-0.2.4/data/cheese.desktop ?
<somerville32> ...
 * somerville32 is a morong
<somerville32> I need to improve my grepping skills
 * bddebian too
<TheMuso> somerville32: In this instance, the find command would have found what you were looking for.
 * somerville32 nods.
<geser> cheese has an interesting requirement listed in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/cheese-0711062240/cheese-0.2.4/README
<somerville32> lol
<norsetto> geser: don't look at me, I haven't got any
<pkern> geser: At least it's not embeded into the license.
<pkern> Otherwise it would be non-free as it's a discrimination against fields of endeveour(+spelling).
<kdub432> aside from bug hunting, how can I help out with ubuntu? i'm finding that i can't really reproduce many of the bugs that are listed on launchpad...
<somerville32> Where is that list of universe packages compared against sid?
<pkern> utnubu.alioth.debian.org
<pkern> somerville32: Actually it's all of Ubuntu.
<pkern> somerville32: i.e. all of Hardy since today
<somerville32> Thats not the link I was given last night
<geser> somerville32: that one http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html ?
<somerville32> yea
<pkern> Not in Sid : 898 packages
<pkern> Way to do for backmerging.
<pkern> Debian is strucked by death of ftp-master currently anyway.
<somerville32> ftp-master really died?
<pkern> somerville32: 2 disks in a raid5 array, yuck.
<somerville32> oh.
<somerville32> I thought you meant a person
<somerville32> :/
<pkern> Haha.  I already had that case, I should have thought of that.
<pkern> I would have said "an ftp-master" then.
<pkern> And added a sad smiley. \:
<geser> pkern: that 898 packages also include packages that got removed from Debian but not from Ubuntu yet
<pkern> geser: Point noted.
<superm1__> geser, it was intended to be headed into multiverse
<superm1__> not universe
<superm1__> geser, because of the 'nc'
<norsetto> kdub432: have you checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment ?
<geser> superm1__: ok
<superm1__> geser, other than having to repack COPYING in the upstream tarballs, things ok?
<norsetto> enough is enough, g'night folks
<geser> superm1__: seems so, I should check it again (and a small wishlist bug: add the name of the licence to debian/copyright)
<superm1__> well i'm in good contact with the upstream, so i'll see if i can get him to include the COPYING upstream and mention it there and i'll just copy the whole thing verbatim (including that bit)
<superm1__> its the same upstream for all those themes
<bddebian> Later folks
 * somerville32 cries.
<somerville32> The Xubuntu artwork guy is starting artwork discussion on -devel :(
<somerville32> And he wants all kinds of yucky changes, haha
<geser> superm1__: I haven't checked, has your debian/rules a get-orig-source target?
<superm1__> geser, he ships .tar.bz2's
<superm1__> so it has to be repacked either way
<geser> therefore the question about get-orig-source which does the repackaging for you?
<superm1__> well assuming i still need to put the COPYING in, its a moot point
<superm1__> until upstream will do it.
<superm1__> but once he does, then i'll be glad to add said target
<somerville32> Can someone review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cheese
<somerville32> Only needs one advocate.
<RainCT> one question I've ever had.. what is the "attachment is a patch" checkbox in LP for?
<RainCT> for debdiff's, or patches without debdiff?
<RainCT> or both? :P
<superm1__> RainCT, sometimes some people attach logs
<superm1__> so its for differentiating between the two
<somerville32> RainCT, debdiffs, patches, etc.
<somerville32> RainCT, It changes the mime type
<RainCT> ah ok, thx
<somerville32> superm1__, Do you have time to review cheese on revu?
<superm1__> somerville32, if its a short revu sure, but i dont have my GPG, SSH , or REVU keys
<superm1__> only needs one ack right?
<somerville32> superm1__, yup
 * TheMuso is around if an uploaded is needed...
<superm1__> somerville32, there are no acks on it right now?
<somerville32> superm1__, No. It is an update so it only needs one ack.
<RainCT> good night
<somerville32> RainCT, night :)
<TheMuso> somerville32: Why don't you file a bug and attacha diff and add to the sponsors queue?
<somerville32> TheMuso, It is a new release.
<TheMuso> Seriously, its easier.
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<somerville32> TheMuso, I'll be sure to put just updates to the package on lp from now on.
<TheMuso> O.
<TheMuso> ok
<rexbron> I love this, the svn commit that fixed my build issues for openlibs was 1337 :D
<TheMuso> rexbron: lol
<superm1__> somerville32, yeah this would be a lot easier if i can see a debdiff
<superm1__> against the current version
<somerville32> There is one on revu :P
<somerville32> or wait, thats just against the orig
<somerville32> superm1__, You don't want a debdiff.
<somerville32> It would be just full of software changes.
<superm1__> somerville32, well i mean a diff of the two debian/ directories
<somerville32> Uno moment
<somerville32> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<somerville32> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43606/
 * Fujitsu_ fails that debdiff.
<Fujitsu_> You should be using the homepage field.
 * somerville32 Fujitsu into a closet.
<somerville32> Hmm..
<rexbron> Does the Homepage and Vcs fields need X??- before them anymore?
<Fujitsu> rexbron: No.
<TheMuso> I don't think so.
<TheMuso> I've seen several packages that use that field now.
<TheMuso> When I've been lookig over merges etc.
<rexbron> TheMuso: It was mentioned on the debian wiki
<TheMuso> And, as we do package updates, we should to.
<TheMuso> too
<rexbron> but lintian/linda has not been updated to reflect that afaik
<Fujitsu> rexbron: Not in Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> There is a backport pending.
<rexbron> cool
 * rexbron is running hardy though. :)
<Fujitsu> I uploaded the new lintian almost a week ago, and I believe it built.
<somerville32> superm1__, Feel free to poke it in if you'd like
<superm1__> somerville32, i dont have linda/lintian right here, but that homepage thing is the only thing that stands out from looking at it
<superm1__> somerville32, i'll poke closer later tonight when i have access to gpg/ssh/revu
<somerville32> superm1__, Well, it is linda/lintian clean.
<superm1__> somerville32, if someone else doesn't
<Fujitsu> somerville32: No it is *not*.
<Fujitsu> Maybe on Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> But not on Hardy.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, I have lintian hardy installed
<Fujitsu> It will complain about the homepage being in the description, and probably a couple of others.
 * TheMuso uses a hardy chroot to run lintian/linda.
<Fujitsu> Ohh, you didn't actually use the old homepage syntax, so it won't pick it up (it would be looking for 'Homepage:' in the description).
<TheMuso> Why use gutsy when theres a chroot available.
<somerville32> TheMuso: I don't use gutsy?
<somerville32> I'll make the homepage change and rebuild to make sure it is clean.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Will you upload after that?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Thankyou.
<Fujitsu> Make sure you run with -Iiv.
<TheMuso> somerville32: Ok. Whats the package name on revu?
<somerville32> cheese
<TheMuso> ok
 * Nafallo sees Fujitsu forgot something again
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Blah.
<Nafallo> haha
<blueyed> When is a SRU approved? the ubuntu-sru team is rather small.. so either pitti or cjwatson have to comment with an ACK?
<blueyed> Or is it approved once the "Gutsy task" has been accepted?
<somerville32> Where does the homepage field go?
<joejaxx> somerville32: in the control file
<joejaxx> :D
 * somerville32 smacks joejaxx 
<somerville32> Which section?
 * joejaxx dodges
<joejaxx> somerville32: the source package part
<somerville32> And should I get rid of the homepage in the description?
<joejaxx> i believe so
<Fujitsu> blueyed: ubuntu-sru only does main/restricted.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: ahhhhh.. That wasn't clear to me. I'm subscribing them to all SRUs.
<somerville32> joejaxx, so Homepage: %s
<joejaxx> yeap the field then the website
<joejaxx> just like the other fields
 * somerville32 pokes joejaxx in the eye.
<somerville32> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> blueyed: You are going to get lightly killed, probably.
<Fujitsu> "This Policy applies for packages shipped in Main. For packages in universe read StableReleaseUpdates#Universe."
<blueyed> Fujitsu: half of them might be for main. Yes, I've just taken a closer look at wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU again.
<joejaxx> somerville32: you are most welcome :)
<Fujitsu> blueyed: Wait, you don't know which component they're in? You should have a sponsor queued up...
<blueyed> Fujitsu: mostly I check which component they are in, to subscribe either ubuntu-main-sponsors or u-u-s. But IIRC I've always subscribed ubuntu-sru for SRUs - because I've thought they could only accept the "Nominate for release".
<Fujitsu> ~ubuntu-dev can accept them for universe.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: is it OK to subscribe ubuntu-sru to bug 131526?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs with some Gtk themes (e.g. Crux)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
<Fujitsu> blueyed: If they aren't already.
<Fujitsu> I'm surprised nobody else is working on that.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: I've provided a patch for this now nearly two weeks ago, have been flamed about it for uploading it to my PPA (omg ooo builds) and now nothing happens... really sad - given the number of crashes and bad experiences (and the easy fix). Hopefully calc puts his planned upload together in the next days and includes this. Then again some weeks and the fix may be available to users finally.
<TheMuso> somerville32: Was the package acked, or does it still require an ack/
<somerville32> TheMuso, I'm making those changes you requested an am currently rebuilding to ensure lintian and linda cleanliness
<TheMuso> ok
 * Fujitsu is not encouraged by the new official stance on community developers for Launchpad.
<Fujitsu> They used to say they'd consider them... but I guess it's good they're actually making it clear now.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Whats this about exactly?
<s1024kb> Fujistu: excuse me, may i ask you a question about Debootstrap?
<TheMuso> !ask | s1024kb
<ubotu> s1024kb: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<somerville32> TheMuso, SteveA said that they do not currently have a process for non canonical-staff to help develop launchpad
<TheMuso> Oh that.
<TheMuso> Right.
<s1024kb> When i try to set up my chroot, the error message was: E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gusty
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-07
<joejaxx> s1024kb: are you on feisty?
<s1024kb> i typed  sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 gusty /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<s1024kb> gusty
<joejaxx> wth?
<joejaxx> that is interesting
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: You can't spell gutsy.
<joejaxx> ahh
<joejaxx> right
<joejaxx> gu*tsy*
<rexbron> hmm
<rexbron> is it allowed to have a python-<foo>-dev package?
<s1024kb> sorry, thank you all.  i mistyped the word...now, okay
<rexbron> for python extentions
<joejaxx> s1024kb: :)
<rexbron> s/is/are/
<s1024kb> excuse me, last night i wanted to build my first package "hello" according to the packing guide basic scratch, i made the changlog, control, copyright and rules in the debian folder, and type dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot, but it did not work...
<somerville32> do: dpkg -S -sa
<LaserJock> ok people, I need to identify a cable
<s1024kb> excuse me, where to find the postinst and prerm files?
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: In debian/?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What do you mean identify? What kind it is?
<s1024kb> Fujistu: no? because the debian folder was made by myself...
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: Then you need to write them..
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, so it's got one end that 9pin with |O|O| on it
<LaserJock> and the other end looks like cat5
<LaserJock> but maybe wider
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Probably a rollover cable.
<rexbron> D-SUB to ethernet?
<Fujitsu> For connecting to router console ports and the like.
<s1024kb> Fujitsu: could you please tell me where i can find them?
<s1024kb> Fujitsu: i mean the template
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: What do you mean? If you're writing a package, you need to write them.
<Fujitsu> I don't know of one.
<Fujitsu> But there may be one.
<LaserJock> dh-make I think creates some templates
<azeem> debhelper might create them just as well if needed
<azeem> not sure
<Fujitsu> azeem: If they don't exist, it will.
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: For what do you need them?
<azeem> ok
<LaserJock> ok, I've got another adapter that looks like parallel port -> 9pin
<s1024kb> Fujitsu: just according to the guide... i don't know...
<LaserJock> does that sound right?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's just DB25 serial to DB9 serial.
<LaserJock> hmm
<somerville32> TheMuso, uploaded
<TheMuso> somerville32: To revu? Ok just a sec.
<somerville32> TheMuso, WIll be a few secs before it appears
<LaserJock> woot, I found a serial mouse
<LaserJock> but I can't find a keyboard cable :(
<zul> hah there is a hockey game on tonight so i wont be around much
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: A keyboard cable? Aren't they normally built into the keyboard?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, yes and no
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I found a Sun keyboard, but without the cable
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> at least it's got a VGA out
<LaserJock> so I don't have to find an adapter for that
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<LaserJock> I was looking in the lab next door for a keyboard and found a sparc ultra 5
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: YOu just have old sparcs lying around?
<LaserJock> well, kinda yeah
<LaserJock> and an alpha somewhere
<LaserJock> but I think maybe it got thrown out
<LaserJock> I don't suppose you can just unplug a sun keyboard and plug it back in and have it work?
<Fujitsu> No idea.
<LaserJock> I just found another sparc across the hall
<Fujitsu> I haven't been near a sparc in a decade.
<LaserJock> with keyboard+mouse
<LaserJock> but it's currently running
<somerville32> TheMuso, How goes it?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Sorry on something else atm, will get to it as my next task.
<LaserJock> hmm, firefox 1.04, this thing is a tad old
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> greetings!
<tonyyarusso> ah, better place
<tonyyarusso> Are there any licenses approved by the FSF and not by the OSI?
<ajmitch> you'd probably have to compare lists to see
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: did you have to kill anyone at work?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, surprsingly.  the girl called in sick.
<ajmitch> that's a surprise
<LaserJock> oh man, I hope this is an email typo: https://launchpad.net/disrtos/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+filebug
<Hobbsee> not really :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why, where do you see that link?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: in an email to launchpad-users about somebody having a problem upgrading Kubuntu
 * ajmitch imagines that it is just a simple typo
<LaserJock> well, they got an oops
<ajmitch> given how many bugs were filed against that package anyway
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 404s OOPS.
<LaserJock> right
<rexbron> Question: A python package includes <foo>.so, .la. .so.0 and .so.0.0.5 . Do you split it into a -dev package like a normal lib?
<LaserJock> so if it's a 404 then that's really bad
<rexbron> s/package/extention/g
<ajmitch> LaserJock: given how many other typos were in his email, I'd say it was typed in, and he misspelt it
<LaserJock> but then why would he get an OOPS
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Because 404s are OOPSes too.
<LaserJock> or does he have to manually type that address in to report the bug
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know!
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
<ajmitch> he probably manually typed it in to file the bug
<ajmitch> everyone else managed to flood launchpad with upgrade failures
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is if he's OOPSed because of an incorrect URL given by update-manger then that's bad
<ajmitch> we know what you mean
 * Fujitsu gets it now.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no everybody ;-)
<ajmitch> well, not *everybody*, but there were more than enough bugs filed successfully
<ajmitch> from ubuntu & kubuntu alike
 * rexbron is sad that noone has an idea
<LaserJock> rexbron: so it must not be a pure python package
<ajmitch> rexbron: if it's building shared libs like that, and sticking them into /usr/lib, it's not a normal python extension
<rexbron> err, debian python policy defines a "module" as pure python, where an extention is written in C or C++
<ajmitch> yes
<rexbron> I just need to know if I need to seperate it into its own -dev package or whether it should ship all the files
<Fujitsu> A normal python extension just has a single .so lurking in a python directory in /usr/lib, doesn't it?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: correct, and usually prefixed with a _
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<joejaxx> hmm
<ajmitch> eg python-mysqldb has /usr/lib/python-support/python-mysqldb/python2.5/_mysql.so
<rexbron> Fujitsu: currently I am linking the so into python-support
<Fujitsu> Though that's not a requirement, is it?
<joejaxx> anyone here have a 4965AGN?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: unknown
<joejaxx> ipw4965AGN that is
<rexbron> ajmitch: that is what I am doing as of now
<ajmitch> but I've seen no python extension that builds with a SONAME like that
<Fujitsu> They shouldn't even have SONAMEs...
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<rexbron> meh, smack upstream
<joejaxx> http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/sb/CS-025330.htm << nice
<ajmitch> joejaxx: sorry, I'm not rich enough
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ? :\
 * ajmitch would need to get a new laptop to use that
<ajmitch> and I don't have money to burn on a new laptop
<rexbron> If some one would be kind enough to review Genpo, I'd appreciate it. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<jdong> LaserJock: hey, you in the mood for another braindead (easier than last time by far) chem question?
<LaserJock> jdong: what's up?
<jdong> LaserJock: ok, for a weak base strong acid titration....
<jdong> LaserJock: I am past the equivalence point, and adding another mL of acid
<jdong> LaserJock: is it safe at that point to ignore the effects of the conjugate acid?
<jdong> or must I do one of them silly ICE thingies?
<LaserJock> sorry, one sec, cleaning some optics
<LaserJock> man, that mirror did not want to go back in
<somerville32> TheMuso, moogle? :]
<LaserJock> jdong: well, so will the conjugate acid of the weak base be strong or weak?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Just doing an install/remove test of cheese, but it looks good.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Awesome.
<jdong> LaserJock: NH3 titrated with HCL, I wouldn't expect NH4+ to be that big of a deal compared to HCL, right? :)
<LaserJock> jdong: I wouldn't think so
<jdong> LaserJock: ok I'll just make that assumption for now.
<somerville32> There should be some documentation on the QA that should take place before uploading.
<LaserJock> what QA? ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<rexbron> If someone has some spare time and is looking for a review, take a peek at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries . Just don't do a debdiff with the previous versions, its a new svn checkout
<somerville32> rexbron, Maybe give us a diff of the debian/ directory on pastebin?
<rexbron> sure
<somerville32> I'm thinking of trying a new web browser
<somerville32> I want something light, fast, but powerful
<somerville32> Suggestions?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Successfully uploaded packages.
<rexbron> somerville32: pick two, :)
<somerville32> TheMuso, Thanks a bunch.
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> fast and powerful
<rexbron> Where'd ma memoriz go?
<TheMuso> somerville32: You're welcome.
<jdong> LaserJock: mmmkay I calculated both ways just for fun, [H+] thanks to NH4+ is like smaller by 10^9 thanks to HCl shoving its equilibrium over to NH4+ state :)
<jdong> silly for me to have even worried in the first place.
<Fujitsu> Yay, Gutsy CDs arrived.
<somerville32> What?!
<somerville32> I didn't get mine yet.
<jdong> that fast?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> A friend nearby got his yesterday.
<jdong> awesome
<rexbron> Anyone who is interested in reviewing OpenLibraries, have a look at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43619/ for a diff of the debian directories.
<rexbron> somerville32: ^
<somerville32> rexbron, Erm. Is this a diff against the debian directory of the last package release?
<rexbron> somerville32: new package
<somerville32> So where is the diff?
<somerville32> (*from)
<rexbron> the previous package on revu
<somerville32> Ahmuck, okay.
 * rexbron is beat, the packages are uploaded to revu. Sleep time
<TheMuso> somerville32: What were you referring to re moogle earlier?
<somerville32> TheMuso, It is a meaningless word. I forget the technical term for meaningless words - does anyone know?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Ah ok.
<somerville32> I suppose it could be an example of onomatopoeia
 * RAOF thought 'moogle' was a critter from Final Fantasy :)
<pwnguin> moot
<somerville32> Where isth the ubuntu-science thinger?
<somerville32> with the packages comparison between ubuntu and debian
 * persia thinks somerville32 should bookmark http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/universe.html
 * somerville32 will be this time.
 * Hobbsee thinks it should all be shoved onto one place.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: 'it'?
<Hobbsee> all the scripts
<Hobbsee> and an ajmitch.  he can go in teh cupboard
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah, well, that's on my list for the upcoming weekend.  I'm hoping we'll have one or two other things in good shaps as well (updated rcbugs, updated ftbfs tracker)
<ajmitch> :(
 * ajmitch is cupboarded
<somerville32> persia is a smart cookie.
<ajmitch> persia: I take it we don't need an updated mdt thingy then
<persia> ajmitch: If you can produce something different and more useful by this weekend, you'll get pride of place in my updates to the wiki :)
<persia> (I'd like comments, better removal detection, watch file check, and more, but I'm probably dreaming)
<ajmitch> so if I don't do it soon, I may as well not bother?
<ajmitch> ok
<Fujitsu> Removal detection should be OK, except for ftp-master being toast.
<somerville32> Now that I'm down with cheese, it is time to do banana
<persia> ajmitch: Well, if you don't do it soon, I won't help you with marketing until mid-December.
<persia> Fujitsu: It gets a little odd when e.g. things are only in stable, or only in oldstable & experimental, etc.
<ajmitch> 'marketing' shoudl not be needed
<Fujitsu> persia: It should only track removals from unstable now, which is what we should be tracking.
<persia> ajmitch: Well then, there's no need for you to not bother if you don't do it soon :)
<ajmitch> persia: it's more if other people are doing something anyway
<ajmitch> since we have enough duplication here
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, most of the time.  I've had to draft two transition plans this week where we wanted a removal, but need to do a transition because we release more often than Debian: It would be nice to know where Debian has the package for removals, to differentiate packages that never released (for which we need a local transition) from packages that did release (for which we can usually use a Debian transition)
<Fujitsu> Ah..
 * ajmitch is having lots of fun playing with dojo today
<persia> ajmitch: I don't know of anyone reimplementing mdt, and I'm actually more looking forward to an updated rcbugs come DIF than a new mdt.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> persia: reimplementing?
<persia> LaserJock: ajmitch has a 90% complete tool that is very similar to mdt, but not released.
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> I thought it was more different
<LaserJock> mdt has some nice stuff
<persia> LaserJock: It may be more different: I only mean it compares package versions and exports the results.  I believe rcbugs relies on part of it for backend processing.
<somerville32> Heya bddebian :)
<LaserJock> persia: ah, mdt has quite a few other scripts that are nice
<LaserJock> for making lists and such
<bddebian> Hi somerville32
<persia> LaserJock: Perhaps: I'm more looking at it from the perspective of generating task lists for all the people who don't want to do bitesize anymore, but haven't been caught by a specific interest.
<bddebian> persia: Fix conquest yet? ;-P
<persia> (oh, and people like me)
<somerville32> bddebian, conquest the game?
<bddebian> yeah
<somerville32> I love that game!
<somerville32> I'm on the ml for it
<bddebian> somerville32: Good, test it for me will ya? :-)
<persia> bddebian: No, but I've not looked at it since I told you I wanted to spend time :P
<bddebian> Bah, you're fired ;-P
 * bddebian is getting like 0 Ubuntu work done since I joined this freakin' team
 * persia . pink slip firmly in hand, considers deleting the conquest directory
<bddebian> Doh
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Which? Debian Games?
<bddebian> Aye
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well, what I had predated mdt
<persia> bddebian: I disagee.  You're doing excellent Ubuntu work: we just have to rely on the autosync to upload.
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Well that was my intent but tbh, I didn't expect to get this deep into it so fast :-)
<ajmitch> so it's not as much reinventing the wheel as it is reviving something ancient
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh
<persia> bddebian: You did say "I wish I had time to work on games", it just required giving up on everything else :)
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> Yay, mass bug-filing for missing debian/watches in Debian!
<bddebian> Yeah, wtf is that
<persia> Â¥o/
<Fujitsu> It has actually been done now.
<bddebian> I got one for my colorgcc package and upstream is dead
<LaserJock> what do they do for svn checkouts and stuff like that?
<LaserJock> and what bddebian said
<persia> LaserJock: get-orig-source
<LaserJock> you use a watch file for that?
<somerville32> What is the current standards version?
 * Fujitsu thinks 3.7.2.2
<LaserJock> 3.7.2
<bddebian> Yeah 3.7.2.something
<persia> LaserJock: No, but it is the acceptable variance from watch files.  On the other hand, submitting a patch to uscan to check CVS, SVN, BZR, and GIT to see if there is a new revision since the last snapshot would likely be welcome...
 * persia thinks that checking one's apt-cache for the debian-standards package is the best way to answer the question
<LaserJock> geeze, I can never make these MOTU meetings :/
<Fujitsu> When's the next one? I forget..
<Fujitsu> Oh, there's a reminder.
 * LaserJock thinks he might have to learn Java
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ew, why?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: please, don't do it
<LaserJock> well, it's cross-platform
<RAOF> So is C.
<LaserJock> and it works
<persia> LaserJock: What time (UTC) on Friday is good for you?  We'll schedule the 23rd to match your schedule.
<RAOF> And Python
<Fujitsu> So is Python, and everything.
<LaserJock> no
<Fujitsu> Java is foul.
<LaserJock> not in that sense
<bddebian> Java is just Evil(tm)
<RAOF> And C++, and C#, and ....
<bddebian> JavaScript
<Fujitsu> And CLR is general.
<bddebian> perl
<Fujitsu> And Ruby, and POSIX shell.
<LaserJock> my friend was just showing me how we wrote a presentation using a Java app and HTML
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> That sounds so evil.
<LaserJock> the point is he can fairly safely run it on anything
<LaserJock> and it works
<Fujitsu> JavaScript!
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> javascript runs a java app
<Fujitsu> .... what?
<ajmitch> mmm
<LaserJock> well, maybe you guys aren't familiar with the pain of chemistry presentations
 * Fujitsu admits he probably isn't.
<Fujitsu> Java is never the solution, however.
<ajmitch> I presume this is using applets or java webstart stuff?
<bddebian> I'm not but I can't imagine there's not a better tool than Java though
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't think so but I honestly don't know for sure
<LaserJock> we have a molecular visualization program called Jmol
<LaserJock> and so what he's actually done is this (don't choke):
<Fujitsu> I love the way the VCAA (educational assessment authority in Victoria) writes their webapps.
<LaserJock> 1) us Illustrator to make slides
<LaserJock> *use
<LaserJock> 2) export those as pngs
<Fujitsu> The one to register uni preferences starts off with HTML forms, but then quickly degrades into this Java thing with warnings all over warning you from using browser history functionality.
<LaserJock> 3) create a simple HTML file that inserts the .pngs with some fancy CSS
<LaserJock> 4) use Javascript to run Jmol with the molecule files
<LaserJock> and that's his presentation
<LaserJock> now he just carries a USB stick with portable opera and his files
<LaserJock> and it "Just Works"
<LaserJock> now I would say a huge percentage of chemistry software is written in Java
<Fujitsu> If you're using an existing application, why must you learn Java yourself?
<LaserJock> because I'm considering building new programs
<LaserJock> or working on existing ones
<ajmitch> how does it run jmol? does it have to be on the system he's doing the presentation on?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> so as long as there is a JVM he's fine, as I understand it
 * ajmitch wonders how it's getting around the various security restrictions
<ajmitch> it must be doing something like java web start if all you need is a JVM
<LaserJock> I don't know
<ajmitch> but I don't know java well enough
<LaserJock> it could be Jmol has a browser plugin that handles it, I'm not sure
<ajmitch> possibly
<LaserJock> but he showed me briefly the javascript and it was loading a .jar
 * ajmitch gets back to fighting javascript
 * Hobbsee fights ajmitch
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: What's said JavaScript meant to do?
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: just some layout stuff for work
<LaserJock> well, the other thing he's thinking of doing is using Flash
<LaserJock> so Illustrator, Java, and Flash :-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what did I ever do to you?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: try to throw me in the pool.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: he didn't!?!
<ajmitch> I would never
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: he did too.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: did he make it?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sadly not
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no.  he got speared with a death stare.
<Hobbsee> as did his partner in crime.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: why not? you've got *cough* a mass advantage *cough* ;-)
 * tonyyarusso would be amused by such things - needs UDS tickets
<ajmitch> LaserJock: Hobbsee must hold a grudge for years
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: and there were TWO of them
 * ajmitch decides to skip LCA
<somerville32> :]
<tonyyarusso> LCA?
<ajmitch> linux.conf.au
<ajmitch> Hobbsee will most likely kill me if I turn up
<Hobbsee> nah...
<Hobbsee> not kill you...
<ajmitch> worse?
 * Fujitsu should probably go.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes, you shoudl.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: To watch Hobbsee kill (maim or other) ajmitch?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Probably.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> Plus it's in Melbourne.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee will most likely not turn up.
<LaserJock> I'd pay for that
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> it depends.  we'll see
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: are you coming?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not at this point, I can't garentee I'll have the funds to get there.
<TheMuso> So very likely not.
<TheMuso> unfortunately, as LCA07 was a blast.
 * ajmitch feels picked on
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: :(
 * Fujitsu throws some stones at ajmitch.
 * ajmitch gives up & goes back to doing work
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: And then theres a fact that I may have a job that I can't take time off from.
<Hobbsee> this is true
<Hobbsee> someone should offer me a job.  that would be nice.
<Hobbsee> </wishful thinking>
 * persia offers Hobbsee the job of global fisheries omsbudman
<Hobbsee> the what now?
<TheMuso> lol
<persia> Hobbsee: There's a current market gap in listening to the problems of people who fish in international waters.  There are grants available, someone just has to promise to listen to everyone and propose possibilities for dispute resolution.
<Hobbsee> ah.
 * ajmitch can't imagine Hobbsee doing dispute resolution
<bddebian> I can
<somerville32> Me too
<bddebian> I'd like to have her and her pointystick at my office ;-)
<ScottK> bddebian: I saw you paid a visit to #debian-python.  How'd that work out for you?
<somerville32> XD
<bddebian> ScottK: Actually very well thanks
 * somerville32 goes for an apple juice break.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: really now?
<ScottK> bddebian: Cool.  They're usually pretty reasonable.
<bigon> does someone have any objection if I upload a new git snapshot for xcompmgr?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: not in any way that doesn't involve beating people up
<persia> bigon: Are there actual releases?  Alternately, can something useful be cherrypicked instead?  If the answer to both is no, I don't
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd be surprised.
<RAOF> bigon: What?  Work has been done on xcompmgr?
<bigon> persia: I dont find any stable release (the only release I found on fd.o are 3years old)
<bigon> RAOF: http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/app/xcompmgr.git;a=summary
<bigon> there was a commit yesterday :o
<RAOF> But nothing interesting for 7 months.
<RAOF> bigon: Incidentally, please remind me to push my branch of libgnome-keyring-cil with a get-orig-source target when I get home :)
<bddebian> Damn OFTC is quiet
<bigon> RAOF: it's 4 am here so it will be for tomorrow
<RAOF> :)
<bigon> persia: I will upload my version, it fix bug with gnome-terminal (the true transparency doesn't work with gnome-terminal)
<RAOF> So, there are a couple of actual bugfixes since our last git snapshot.  I'd be happy with a new snapshot.
<somerville32> Is it my duty to clean up debian/rules when I update a package to a new release?
<bddebian> somerville32: Ideally, yes
<bddebian> At least that's my philosophy
<somerville32> Some of them I'm scarred to touch they're such a mess :P
<bddebian> You should see conquest ;-)
<somerville32> And I have no idea how some of these packages even got into the archives :/
<bddebian> I hear ya.  That's why I get so frustrated with Debian some times.
<bddebian> They are hard-asses on my changes when the package is already shit ;-)
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> debhelper sucks in the way that people just leave them all in and hope they work
<ScottK> When I submit my Debian New Maintainer Application, should First Name be the first name on my gpg key or the name I go by (which is actually my middle name)?  The middle name is in the GPG key too?
<chillywilly> happy late release day...boy where did Oct. go?
<chillywilly> months are just flying by for me...
 * chillywilly dist-upgrade's
<somerville32> Is a debian/patches/00list thing needed?
<bddebian> If you use dpatch, yes
<somerville32> In a debian package, I just saw series
<bddebian> That's for quilt
<somerville32> okay :)
<chillywilly> wow, ~9Mbit down from the ubuntu mirror
<chillywilly> weeeeeeeeeee
<chillywilly> what does it mean if you have 400MB of irc logs?
<bigon> gn
<somerville32> I wonder if my 333 could manage building two packages at once
<TheMuso> Depends on how big the packages are.
<ScottK> somerville32: Sure.  Just a question of how long it takes and if the OOM killer gets you.
<persia> somerville32: It can, but it will be slow.  If you can convince it to build off two different physical discs simultaneously, it will do better (package construction is often I/O bound on slower machines)
<somerville32> I love how this package just compiles a windows application and than runs it with mono.
<somerville32> Pretty nifty.
<persia> somerville32: mingw?
<somerville32> youtranslate
<somerville32> err.. I don't think it uses mingw
<persia> Ah.  Windows-targeted mono app?  Sounds like Java
<somerville32> The debian/rules was a mess
<somerville32> ogmz.
<somerville32> I did it again.
 * somerville32 slams his head into... a pike.
 * persia gently suggests that impalement is never a solution to a lintian warning
<somerville32> No, my build failed
<somerville32> I put dh_installman notecase.1
<somerville32> When it should have been dh_installman debian/notecase.1
 * persia likes debian/notecase.manpages
 * LaserJock makes a pizza sacrifice and dances around a boxed set of the Sopranos to summon nixternal 
<somerville32> persia, I'm going to start doing that because this is the second time
<somerville32> And building takes for ever on this box
<somerville32> It would be super nice if imbrandon let me have shell access to one of his servers :P
<persia> somerville32: Warning: you're starting down the road towards the dangerous dark magic that is CDBS...
<bddebian> LaserJock: hehe
<somerville32> lol
<superm1_> somerville32, i just returned
<superm1_> somerville32, do you still need some help?
<somerville32> superm1_, I'm not sure what I asked for. However, I'm about to upload a package to revu :)
<superm1_> somerville32, okay
<somerville32> superm1_, Actually, it'll most likely be 15-20 minutes depending if it is lintian clean
 * somerville32 has a slow box.
<somerville32> What is the upgrade path for Hoary?
<StevenK> Via Breezy
<StevenK> Which is also EOL'd
<persia> somerville32: You missed it: reinstall
<LaserJock> I'm honestly a bit unsure of what "upgrade path" means
<TheMuso> lol
<LaserJock> I always hear about making sure there's an upgrade path, etc.
<somerville32> persia, The person is remote
<somerville32> StevenK, The repository is still available though, right?
<persia> LaserJock: Theoretically it means that we've taken the time to set the maintainer scripts to support a direct upgrade from X to Y, and that every package that suffered a transition has the correct depends, conflicts, and replaces to upgrade smoothly and maintain system functionality.
<StevenK> Right
<LaserJock> persia: basically that an upgrade will work
<somerville32> imbrandon, Hey.
<somerville32> imbrandon, Do you think you could let me have access to a bug to build on?
<imbrandon> ello
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<imbrandon> somerville32, huh?
<somerville32> lmao
 * somerville32 dies.
<somerville32> box
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  An example might be lckdo, which was merged into moreutils:we want a transition package for lockdo that depends on moreutils, and for moreutils to have versioend conflicts / replaces on lockdo for any release which is an upgrade target for gutsy
<imbrandon> somerville32, not atm, we're still working on some auth stuff and such, i dont have the resources to just yet
<imbrandon> somerville32, sorry
<somerville32> imbrandon, :( My resources are limited to 333mhz
<LaserJock> how many "community machines" do we have?
<persia> ScottK: I think my second agenda item and your agenda item are addressing the same issue.
<persia> LaserJock: we're a little scattered, there are at least three clusters of hosts with restricted access of various sorts.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, as in ubuntuwire? 2 atm
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sparky and?
<imbrandon> an un-named one
<LaserJock> we should get things sort of documented or something
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but what's the arch
<imbrandon> LaserJock, we had planned on it, siretart and myself are working out the nss-db login stuff and scaleability and then it will be very well =documented
<imbrandon> LaserJock, sparc and ppc atm'
<imbrandon> arm and x86 and x86_64 will all come also but this time arround lots of planning etc is going into the management of them
<Megaqwerty> Could anyone point me to a manual or tutorial on .install files as they pertain to the "debian" directory?
<imbrandon> thus taking a bit longer
<persia> Megaqwerty: man dh_install
<TheMuso> have you thought of having more than one box per arch?
<RAOF> somerville32: If you really like, I can give you access to an x86-64 box.
<Megaqwerty> persia: thanks!
<somerville32> RAOF, Is it fast? :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso, definately, we just want to work on the mgmt first and get it 100% dead to rights THEN we'll add multi machines per arch
<imbrandon> in multi locations etc
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Right. In that case, I may offer some CPU time when my file server is built.
<imbrandon> cool
<RAOF> somerville32: Yes.
<TheMuso> Dual PIII 1Ghz. at least 2GB RAM, and heaps of disk space.
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> RAOF, is it ready for building?
<RAOF> somerville32: Yes.  All I need is an ssh key.  Your launchpad page is...
<persia> I think Luca also as a couple build servers up, it might be worth asking him as well if you're looking for cycles.
<RAOF> If it's easy enough, my x86-64 server is also not doing anything interesting.
<RAOF> (Stupid aerial stupid digital tv :()
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't know but I might be able to contribute a sparc
<RAOF> somerville32: Ok, maybe that's a lie.  Maybe I need to restart this box before schroot will work again :)
<imbrandon> killer , yea , we'll make a general announcement when we have the system in place
<imbrandon> to accept new machines
<persia> LaserJock: That reminds me, depending on the contents of NVRAM, pulling the keyboard can stop the OS...
<somerville32> RAOF, launchpad.net/~cody-somerville
<somerville32> RAOF, I have three. Not sure which one this box is.
<LaserJock> anybody know if Debian has any good references on their vast army of machines/services?
<StevenK> db.debian.org/machines.cgi
<LaserJock> StevenK: was thinking more on management but that's good too
<imbrandon> whats all , developer , restricted ?
<StevenK> It's access patterns
<StevenK> all == DD + man & dog, developer = DD only and restricted is DSA and team only
<imbrandon> man & dog ? lol
<somerville32>  failed in buffer_read(fd): files list for package `libxosd2': Input/output error ?
<imbrandon> StevenK, so whom falls into the "man + dog" category ?
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> imbrandon: Anyone who can justify an account to the DSA, like for porting work
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<LaserJock> I haven't really understood the recent DSA "thing" going on
<imbrandon> i wonder if i could get a ubuntu chroot going on this 200mhz mipsel fon
<imbrandon> it has dd-wrt .... /me ssh's in and pokes arround
<persia> imbrandon: The main obstacles there are probably 1) storage space, and 2) RAM
<somerville32> Where are the file lists for packages kept?
<imbrandon> yea ram will be an issue, but the storage has access to 100+GB on NFS
<LaserJock> geeze, ries.debian.org is a nice server
<imbrandon> thats the ftp-master iirc isnt it
<persia> somerville32: Contents.gz, but I don't know they have been generated for hardy
<StevenK> LaserJock: Compare to merkel
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, 1.3TB of disk space and 16GB of RAM
<somerville32> persia, I'm looking for local on hoary
<somerville32> And can I safely delete it? lol
<LaserJock> StevenK: 48GB of RAM!?!
<LaserJock> wow
<persia> somerville32: Look in /var/lib/dpkg and /var/lib/apt, and if you delete things, you may find the package managers don't expect as you'd think
<StevenK> Heh heh. Everybody says that.
<persia> s/expect/act/
<persia> LaserJock: It's easy to use, just compile eclipse in tmpfs for several different targets
<imbrandon> or load oo.o
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> hehe, bruckner the ppc port machine is a bit wimpy in comparision 128MB RAM and 18GB storage
 * ajmitch wonders what the power bill is like for merkel
<LaserJock> hmm, does Canonical/Ubuntu sponsor any Debian machines?
<ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
<Burgundavia> I know they sponsor at least one GNOME one
<LaserJock> we should
<LaserJock> looking at the machines and who sponsors them
<LaserJock> Sun, Xandros, etc.
<somerville32>  Maybe we should get some non-canonical sponsors for Ubuntu?
<persia> somerville32: We have a few who donate 20-80 hours/week of development time.  It jus needs a business case where it's 1) easier to use Ubuntu than something else, 2) there's clear value to making changes to Ubuntu rather that maintaining a diff, and 3) There aren't any policy conflicts.
<Megaqwerty> If I wanted to make a package that would place a few files on the system (i.e. a few nautilus scripts) does anyone know where I could learn to do that?
<persia> Megaqwery.  I'd suggest you first prepare a tar.gz of the scripts and what not in an editable layout, and a Makefile to install them in the right place.  You could then use this as a base of for a package.
<persia> On the other hand, you might want to look at one of the existing nautilus script type packages to see how someone else did it.
<Megaqwerty> persia: thanks. Could you point me to a good makefile guide? (I'll check out existing packages as well)
<persia> Megaqwerty: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
<persia> !packaging | Megaqwerty
<Megaqwerty> thanks persia
<ubotu> Megaqwerty: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<persia> Grrr...  Not there.  Visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide  It's a work-in-progress, but it's not nearly as out of date.
<Hobbsee>  /me pokes persia
 * Hobbsee pokes persia
 * persia steals all of Hobbsee's spaces
<Hobbsee> heh :)
<somerville32> joejaxx, update the stats :P
 * TheMuso ponders filing a request to get his ISP to mirror lpia, but doesn't think its worth the bother since he rarely touches it anyway.
<persia> TheMuso: I thought you were looking at a local mirror anyway
<TheMuso> persia: My local mirror would be using my ISP's mirror as a base.
<TheMuso> I don't have that much quota to spare.
<persia> Ah.  I didn't realise the quota was based on access beyond the ISP, rather than access over the local link.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah. My ISP has a quota free mirror, that only mirrors i386, sparc, amd64, and powerpc.
<persia> TheMuso: Source as well, I'd hope.  Still, if you plan to run lpia, you'll want to bug them about it.
<TheMuso> persia: Yes source as well.
<TheMuso> persia: Well I was thinking only to help fix lpia universe ftbfs bugs, but I guess at this point its not that important.
<persia> TheMuso: Hmmm....  It's a worthwhile thing to do, although I think we've still lots of FTBFS on your mirrored architectures.
<somerville32> Developing ubuntu is going to kill my old hard drive :/
<persia> somerville32: Just get more RAM.  Once you go above 4GB, pbuilder/sbuild IO goes down to almost nothing.
<somerville32> I doubt the bio can handle more than 256mb or 512mb
<persia> somerville32: Check your motherboard against one of the free bios implementations: if it's that old, it might be supported.
<somerville32> persia, My build-dep depends on a package in universe
<somerville32> persia, But my pbuilder doesn't seem to be bringing it in
<persia> does your pbuilder have universe in sources.list?
<somerville32> If i edit my sources.list while logged in, will that fix it?
<somerville32> persia, I thought I had it that way.
<persia> somerville32: No idea: I don't use pbuilder
 * somerville32 finds a solution.
<somerville32> Can someone please sponsor my package on revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=notecase
<persia> somerville32: You're asking for REVU sponsorship.  What is the history of the package?
<somerville32> persia, In what way?
<somerville32> I don't think I can describe anymore more than whats in the changelog
<persia> somerville32: Well, if it's a new package, and it has already been advocated, then it makes sense.  If it's an updated package, why REVU?
<somerville32> persia, New release
<persia> somerville32: OK.  In that case, you probably want to put an interdiff somewhere for review of the work.
<somerville32> okay.
<persia> somerville32: The procedure is currently documented several different ways, but my personal preference is to only have the interdiff in an upgrade bug subscribed to the sponsors queue.
<somerville32> :/
<TheMuso> persia: How exactly is interdiff useful for that?
 * TheMuso is reading the manpage.
<TheMuso> And can't work out how interdiff comes into play...
<persia> TheMuso: It shows differences in the packaging (contents of diff.gz).  debdiff is bad for new upstreams,, because if conflates the changes made in packaging and upstream changes.
<TheMuso> persia: Ah of course. Yep I knew about the debdiff for new upstreams, but I see where you're coming from now, compare the two diff.gz files.
<persia> Since the md5sum has to be verified against the upstream download anyway, it's easier to only download orig.tar.gz once, to construct, sign, and upload the package: saves attachment space on LP.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<persia> somerville32: As I said, it's documented lots of different ways.  Come to the next MOTU meeting, when at least two proposals for the right way to do it will be proposed and discussed.
 * persia wonders what happened to kibi's repo, and why notecase never went into Debian
<persia> somerville32: A few other minor things:
<persia> 1) would you mind adding a description to the dpatch files, explaining what they do?
<somerville32> persia, sure
<persia> 2) could you add a watch file so we can automatically detect a need to upgrade in the future?
<somerville32> sure
<persia> 3) I don't really understand the confusion between upstream and kibi regarding debianisation.  It seems odd to carry the dispute in the diff.gz unless we understand it.
<persia> 4) Why are we moving from debhelper v5 to debhelperv4?  Isn't v5 easier to use?
<persia> somerville32: I'm sure not all of those are yours, and haven't looked at the interdiff, but they all seem like annoying outstanding issues for an Ubuntu-native package :)
<somerville32> persia: I copied over debian from the last release
<somerville32> However, I didn't know .orig ships with debian/
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  Looks like upstream is shipping one.  Perhaps worth deeper investigation: you may end up finding the new debhelper --ignore option helpful :)
<somerville32> persia, I'm moving to cdbs too :P
 * somerville32 shivers.
<persia> somerville32: If upstream is shipping debian/ and we are smiliar to their packaging style, it works.  Attempting to migrate to CDBS will definitely cause an issue, as you can't use debhelper --ignore in CDBS easily.
<somerville32> They used CDBS upstream
<persia> Ah.  Well then. you can use either debhelper of CDBS, as you prefer.  It's just not a good idea to move in the other direction, as the more magic one uses, the less deterministic the solution appears
<somerville32> persia, Good learning experience  form e.
<somerville32> *e
<somerville32> gah
<persia> somerville32: You might also want to ping kibi to see what's been happening on that side.
<somerville32> persia, I'm not using the packaging from upstream
<somerville32> so that takes care of the copyright issue
<persia> somerville32: Hrm?  I didn't only mean about copyright: if there's a package in perfect shape sitting on mentors or something, you'll have a more productive day if you check that for upload suitability instead of chasing the current one.
<persia> (assuming quick response: for slow response, just proceed)
<somerville32> You want me to check debian mentors to see if someone is attempting to package it there?
<persia> somerville32: No, I want 1) there to be a perfect package, 2) you to have a satifying, enjoyable, and educational experience, and 3) you to spend as little time to achieve that so you can get more work done.
 * somerville32 blinks.
<persia> I just thought that since there was someone looking at maintaining it for debian before, you might try sending them a note or catching them on oftc to see if they had alreaady done a bunch of it to save time.
<somerville32> persia, I was unaware someone was attempting to do that.
<somerville32> persia, And I don't see where you started that.
<persia> somerville32: Well, from the changelog I saw, it doesn't look like we've sync'd in at least two years, but I don't know if work has been done in another branch.
<somerville32> persia, This package doesn't exist in debian.
<persia> somerville32: No, it doesn't.  From the changelog it looked to me like kibi tried to get it in a couple years ago: that's all the data I have.
 * TheMuso kills some more uus bugs.
<somerville32> Who is "kibi"?
 * persia cheers and especially asks for external focus on merge bugs due to an internal phobia of forgetting -v before uploading
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> somerville32: Cyril Brulebois
<somerville32> persia, How did you expect me to know that?
<persia> somerville32: Sorry.  That's my fault.  Apologies.
<somerville32> Upstream's debian directory is useless. We're not using it so the copyright belongs to kibi.
<TheMuso> persia: Forgetting before uploading?
<TheMuso> persia: I've added an agenda item for the meeting. I am going to propose that we have uus queue days, like we do for REVU etc.
<persia> TheMuso: I very frequently generate an incorrect .changes file for merges, and have to repeat.  As a result, I'm much happier with bugfixes, new upstreams, and syncs.
<TheMuso> As that queue can often be more than a single person's workload for a day.
<TheMuso> persia: How do you manage to do that?
<persia> OK.  Sounds like a sane proposal, although I've seen steady decline in size over the past week, and expect we'll catch up (~5-15 bugs in queue) in another week or so.  I think I'd prefer a big call for cleanup now, and then get an idea of the delta before it becomes a regular thing.
<persia> Regarding changes, I forget to add the -v(last version actually in Ubuntu) when building the package, so I truncate the changelog variance that shows in the various tools.
<TheMuso> Well, we'll see. Its partly to try and get other MOTUs motivated to actually help out with it, rather than focus on their own work. It means that those of us who take care of it, don't get a chance to do any of our own work.
<persia> This is annoying because then the Debian changelog updates don't show in e.g. apt-listchanges
<TheMuso> persia: right.
<persia> TheMuso: Well, I guess that makes sense.  I just think it's better to try to get a core group of people to sponsor a bug or two every day rather than making it a once-weekly event.
<persia> (e.g. I tend to sponsor a couple first thing in the morning, and last thing in the evening, with more only when I'm not doing anything else)
<TheMuso> persia: Yes I agree. I'm just trying to think of ways that we can clear a backlog, if ever there gets to be one.
<somerville32> persia, What do you mean about the move from v5 to v4
<somerville32> persia, They all use v4
<TheMuso> persia: Well since I have a lot of time on my hands at this moment, I'm doing more uus than anything else, which I'd rather not do, but since I'm an admin, I feel responsible for it.
<persia> somerville32: Are you sure?  I see '5' in debian/compat in orig.tar.gz, and '4' in debian/compat in your candidate revision.
<somerville32> oh
<somerville32> okay.
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> All points addressed
<somerville32> rebuilding
<persia> TheMuso: For backlog (like now), we just need a big stick.  This is merge season combined with ~3 weeks of rare to light sponsorship.  For most of gutsy I saw (beginning and end), it was usually around 10-30 bugs after we did the initial big triage push.
<persia> somerville32: Thanks for the quick response to all my points.
<somerville32> persia, I'm getting a weird warning.
<somerville32> W: notecase source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/postinst
<persia> somerville32: Which one?
<somerville32> But there is no debian/postinst
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I know, but as I said earlier, it would be nice to have more MOTUs who help out with it.
<persia> heh.  Welcome to the magic of upstream debian directories.  I suspect you've a 0-byte file floating about in the autobuild environment.  Check if I'm correct by looking in the upstream directory: if I'm right, you'll need --ignore.  If not, I suggest looking at the lintian check that generates that error to determine the cause.
<somerville32> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/postinst
<somerville32> postinst is included in the upstream debian
<somerville32> so I suppose I should include it
<persia> TheMuso: I think we're looking at two different sides of the same thing.  We both want more people (I don't think we really have 47), and you think Sponsor Day might help, whereas I think bug-a-day might help.  Let's try both and see what happens.
<persia> somerville32: You don't need to include it.  Try the debhelper --ignore function, new in hardy, just to solve that problem.
<somerville32> persia, Why don't I need it?
<TheMuso> persia: Well it can be discussed at the meeting.
<persia> somerville32: If you have no postinst, you'll end up with a pure debhelper postinst.  If you want manual features from upstream postinst, you'll want to include that.  I'm not looking at the files, so am not in a good position to make a determination.
 * TheMuso ponders revising his agenda item.
<somerville32> It just reloads stuff
<persia> TheMuso: Sure.  I'm happy as long as we don't end up with something like ("You can't sponsor on alternate Tuesdays")
<somerville32> persia, I think you're right.
<persia> somerville32: Most of that is likely already done by debhelper :)
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah.
<somerville32> persia, So, how do I do the ignore?
<persia> somerville32: I haven't had a chance yet.  look at the debhelper changelog for a quick blurb, which should point you to some docs.
<somerville32> Would it tell me how to do it with CDBS?
<persia> Erm.  Maybe.  I'm guessing it's a flag you need to pass to individual debhelper calls, and that CDBS doesn't support it yet, but if you read the docs you'll know more than I :)
<TheMuso> One more down.
 * persia glances to see if there are any more that can be easily knocked down from here
<somerville32> persia, Why not just ignore it? It is only a warning.
<persia> somerville32: Because 1) we'd like to get everything linda & lintian clean, and 2) an empty postinst in source forces an empty postinst in binary which prevents any of the debhelper calls, so that your menu items won't get stuck in the menus when you install: they'll wait for something else to get installed.  This may be confusing or annoying to users.
<somerville32> persia, is this feature something thats new in debhelper 5?
<persia> somerville32: It's even new in 5.0.54 or something: very, very, very recent
<persia> (only in hardy)
<somerville32> I'll try something else first.
<somerville32> hmm
<TheMuso> Another one down, which was incorrectly subscribed, as the package is in main.
 * TheMuso -> dinner.
<somerville32> Ok
 * somerville32 takes a deep breath.
<pkern> persia: I didn't follow everything but inserting #!/bin/sh\n#DEBHELPER# would fix that, too, I'd assume?
<persia> pkern: Yes it would.
<somerville32> pkern, Thats what I did.
<pkern> Aye.
<BugMaN> hi all
<white> dumdidum
<white> i reckon that you guys do not get a few free days, when ftp-master is down :)
<persia> white: Nope.  Are you bored?
<white> well i have one or two more bugs to fill, but then there is nothing to do as uploads are not really possible atm
<white> and the damn buildds are also affected by ftp-master being down :/
<white> so security uploads are also sort of pointless :(
<persia> How long are you stuck?
<white> until DSA fixes ftp-master or new TODOs are coming in for testing-security :)
<white> watching movies is probably the time killer :)
<persia> Ah.  Too bad.  I was hoping to sell you on updating new versions :)
 * Fujitsu wonders how it can take so long to restore it.
<white> persia: well uploads are not possible, so no updates :)
<white> Fujitsu: good question
<persia> white: You're assuming I was thinking about uploads to ftp-master :P
<white> Fujitsu: i would suspect that there is a backup and an alternative host, so everything should be switched in a few hours
<pwnguin> hmm. i can find a converter from xpm to .ico
<pwnguin> but not a .ico to anything else
<Fujitsu> white: Hasn't it been almost 48 hours now?
<white> yes
<persia> Fujitsu: It's often a matter of physical access for someone: not necessarily DSA, but someone who has access to the host.
<white> and after we realised that the buildds for testing-security are affected, we stipped working on DTSAs
<Fujitsu> Surely it would have taken a couple at maximum to diagnose it, then fix or restore from backups.
<Fujitsu> persia: True.
<persia> pwnguin: imagemagick does .ico -> .xpm and .ico -> .png
<white> Fujitsu: well for the main machine for debian, i would expect to have an alternative host in place and just change the address and use another host than ries
<Fujitsu> white: One would presume so, as it's fairly important..
<persia> white: I think there are synchronisation concerns (not that DSA has lots of extra time to discuss concerns or anything)
<white> persia: what do you mean?
<white> i am sure that ries had a backup
 * Fujitsu grumbles at PHP for being stupid.
<white> and having another host ready as ftp-master2 is sort of the way to go, if the project relies on it, isn't it?
<Fujitsu> Half of the 2.0.2 to 2.0.11 WordPress diff is casting things to ints.
<white> Fujitsu: drop wordpress
<lucas> white: have you ever dealt with redundancy of complex systems?
<persia> white: I don't think the backup is a mirror, so there's roll-forward to do on restore, etc.  On the other hand, I've not paid much attention to ftp-master in the past couple years.
<white> lucas: to some extent, yes
<minghua> I am not so sure that ftp-master has a full up-to-date backup...
<lucas> usually, it's very hard, and it's easier to say: "be ready, so that when it breaks, we can fix it in a timely manner"
<persia> Fujitsu: ints?  Erm.  Not casting pointers to ints surely...
<Fujitsu> persia: Pointers in PHP?
<persia> minghua: At least last-day (or it did before)
<somerville32> persia, okay. It should be all good for review now.
<pwnguin> wordpress was written in a language that has pointers?
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Good.  I get worried when people cast to ints, but perhaps I have to narrow the set of things that raise alarms.
<lucas> minghua: most of the important stuff is mirrored on merkel anyway
<white> lucas: please enlightne me
<white> lucas: having dak on another host and the whole database, plus the archive
<lucas> but some things are never backuped up (like home dirs)
<persia> somerville32: Excellent.  I don't have time for a review now, but will definitely look at it later.
<somerville32> Ok.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Are you a motu?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I am.
<lucas> white: then you have to deal with synchronization between ries and ries2, and between ries2 and ries when ries comes back
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Want to do a review? :)
<persia> somerville32: Stop bugging individual MOTUs for sponsorship.  We have a sponsors queue for that.
<lucas> often, it's easier to just say: "ok, it's down for 2 days, it's not a huge problem anyway"
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Not particularly, as I have very restricted network access where I am now.
<white> lucas: if you have a full backup and you decide to change ries2 to ries, what would be the problem?
<somerville32> Fujitsu, I'll give you a cookie :)
<white> lucas: then you have enough time to investigate ries (now ries2)
<white> s/you have/you would have/
<lucas> that usually, ries2 is simply a backup solution, and that you want to go back to ries at some point
<white> lucas: i do not want a fully automatic solution, but something which can be switched manually in a couple of hours
<lucas> let's say you sync every 2 hours.
<white> yes
<lucas> is it better to say "let's go back to the last backup"
<lucas> on ries2
<lucas> or to say "wait on ries to come back"
<lucas> in one case, you lose maybe 1h30 of changes
<lucas> in the other case, you just cant upload for some time, but no work is loss / has to be redone
<minghua> lucas: Ah, good to know.  But do you know any more news?  Is the "harddisk problem" confirmed?
<lucas> minghua: according to rt.d.o, yes
<white> lucas: so you prefer not having any migration to testing (holding a lot of sec updates from testing), having problems with builds for DTSAs and not being able to do any uploads to the main archive for two days (and probably more), than just lossing let's say 10 new package versions in incoming?
<white> and that could be announced in an email to reupload them
<lucas> white: depends :-)
<white> lucas: well, I tend to disagree ;)
<lucas> I think I just got 3 security updates
<lucas> Get:1 http://localhost testing/updates/main libpcre3-dev 6.7+7.4-2+lenny1 [246kB]
<white> lucas: that was the last lucky one, which came through
<lucas> ah ok
<white> atm, there are two more DTSAs in the queue, which fail on a few buildds due to incoming.d.o. unreachable :/
<white> and there would probably one or two more, if it would make sense to upload them at all :)
<minghua> I also remember today's perl security update says there are arches with no packages available, which I assume is partly due to this problem.
<white> lucas: don't get me wrong, i am sure that DSA does a hell of a job, i was just wondering, because the impact is quite huge (with no personal criticism intended)
<lucas> system administration in volunteer projects is often a problem
<lucas> debian's is not perfect
<lucas> but other projects have similar issues (see freedesktop.org for example)
<white> as said, i was just wondering about the backup plans (and alternative plans) for one of the major debian machines :)
<white> lucas: and the "lack of manpower" is not an argument ;)
<lucas> no, but you can't just add 10 people to such teams
<lucas> it won't help
<white> lucas: i am not suggesting that
 * persia suggests that anyone with a good plan for building a distributed redundant model that doesn't need a signficant manual kick document it and send it to the appropriate mailing list for consideration.  Such plan should include arrangements for staffing.
<lucas> + some members of DSA have other employers ;)
<white> lucas: but saying that there are no trustworthy people in debian capable of doing this job is a lie
<lucas> yes, of course
<lucas> where's a lot of work being done behind the scene to improve the DSA staffing issue
<white> lucas: and having other employers is not a problem. People do not need to get kicked out of teams, just because their commitment rate only contains half of the time :)
<lucas> (being a french DD, I have access to direct information channels, believe me ;)
<white> lucas: i am not saying anything against the current improvements or sam's plans
<white> lucas: or the french cabal intervention ;)
 * persia encourages further discussion of ftp-master administration be conducted in another forum
<white> lucas: see my statements just as some personal thoughts, which i like to discuss with fellow DDs or other people ;)
<lucas> well, for example, some people are annoyed by the fact that 20+ future developers are simply waiting for a canonical employee to create their accounts :)
<white> persia: spoilsport ;)
<pwnguin> persia: so it appears that xpm is favorable over png for diff reasons...
<white> lucas: in my opinion, that is bullshit
<persia> pwnguin: Well, yes.  You can uuencode pngs
<persia> !ohmy | white
<ubotu> white: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<somerville32> :p
<white> persia: ?
<persia> pwnguin: ... If you want, but .xpm is certainly smaller.  It is also supported by the debian menu system, which many users (like fluxbuntu) appreciate.
<Fujitsu> Is elmo the only DAM?
<lucas> no, but he is the only one able to create accounts
<white> lucas: i might do windows administration here at university next year. Are people concerned that a windows admin uploads DTSAs to the debian pool?
<lucas> the other DAM only reviews apps
<Fujitsu> That seems silly.
<pwnguin> persia: good to know. i originally picked .png because it looked the same and was a bit smaller
<persia> Ummm...  I really don't think this is the forum.  Further, I suggest that those looking at DAM issues read archives from the years prior to he existence of Ubuntu.
<white> lucas: (personal note. not because i like the job, but because it is an opportunity to pay for my tuition)
<persia> pwnguin: I usually try to include both: a 32x32 xpm and a 48x48 or 64x64 png.
 * Fujitsu finds the discussion rather interesting, but agrees that this probably not the right place.
<lucas> white: not at all. but if you were the only one able to upload DTSA, and wouldn't have enough bandwidth, people would be annoyed
<white> lucas: maybe. Not sure how to handle the NM stuff, I am just a small AM :)
<somerville32> Could someone review my page on revu? New upstream release (1 advocate needed). http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=notecase
 * Fujitsu wonders why we don't just use interdiffs attached to bugs like normal.
<somerville32> Could someone review my page on revu? New upstream release (1 advocate needed). http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=youtranslate
<somerville32> Fujitsu, I can provide interdiffs for you if you'd like.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I'm just wondering why that isn't the documented process.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Yeah for the next MOTU meeting!
 * Fujitsu checks the agenda.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Do you want an interdiff or just a diff of debian/ ?
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: interdiff of the .diff.gz.
<pkern> somerville32: When?
<Fujitsu> pkern: The meeting?
<pkern> Aye.
<Fujitsu> 2000UTC this Friday.
<pkern> Aye.
<somerville32> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43645/ <-- youtranslate
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I suspect you want -p1 or so.
<minghua> That's a broken interdiff.
<Fujitsu> minghua: No, it's fine, just the directories are named differently.
<somerville32> oh
<Fujitsu> somerville32: You might want to check diffs for saneness before advertising them.
<Fujitsu> Anyway, I need to go home now, I will return in about 20 minutes.
<somerville32> With p1, it fails
<minghua> Fujitsu: Yeah, I should have said "useless".
<somerville32> What do I do if interdiff dies?
<minghua> somerville32: The changes to Makefile.youtranslate and youtranslate.exe.config are no longer needed?
<minghua> somerville32: "binary now placed in /usr/share/youtranslate".  Why?
<somerville32> minghua, Because the package is any
<DaveMorris> Hi, I'm reading the REVU guide on the wiki and it says I need to ask you kinda amins to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring now that I've joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team.
<somerville32> (the arch that is)
<minghua> somerville32: But all other mono packages put their .exe files in /usr/lib.
<s1024kb> Hello everyone, how to use "sudo sed -i s/dapper/breezy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list" when i am using gutsy?
<somerville32> minghua, linda complained so I changed it.
<minghua> s1024kb: What exactly do you want to achieve?
<s1024kb> minghua: i am setting up my chroot following the guide...
<s1024kb> minghua: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebootstrapChroot
<minghua> somerville32: Did you test building and using the new package?  I think your debian/install file is wrong.
<minghua> s1024kb: So you want to set up a hardy chroot?
<somerville32> minghua, I've detected some more problems with it.
<s1024kb> minghua: thanks for your help. actually i am still carrying on the "hello" in packing guide. Last night i had build the 4 files such as changelog myself with vim in the /debian folder, but don't know what next...
<somerville32> minghua, I'll make the changes.
<s1024kb> minghua: i am setting up my Debootstrap according to the guide now because only now i can be online. Later i will continue the "hello" practice at home.
<minghua> somerville32: I suggest you always use "dh_install --fail-missing" when using debhelper.
<somerville32> minghua, When I try installing the binary deb, I get all kinds of dependency errors.
<somerville32> minghua, I assume it is because I built for hardy?
<somerville32> And they've already updated the mono stuff?
<minghua> s1024kb: I don't understand why you need a chroot for building the "hello" package, does the guide tell you to create a debootstraped chroot first?
<s1024kb> minghua: no... other Ubuntu friends told me that...
<s1024kb> minghua: they sent me the link of the document and i am following it...
<somerville32> minghua, nvm. I'm stupid.
<minghua> somerville32: No idea, but if you can't test on hardy, test it on gutsy.  Don't ask for reviews before building and testing the package.
<somerville32> minghua, How do I get it to download the depends?
<minghua> s1024kb: Well, I guess you'll have to ask the other friends.  I don't quite know what you are trying to do here, and you don't seem to know either.
<minghua> somerville32: Doesn't gdebi (or whatever the .deb package installer is named) pull in dependency automatically?
<somerville32> minghua, okay.
<s1024kb> minghua: anyway, i want to try to set up my chroot, maybe for future use. shall i type sudo sed -i s/gutsy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list ?
<minghua> s1024kb: No.  My *guess* is that you can safely skip that step.
<s1024kb> minghua: i feel that it's not easy to follow the packing guide "basic scratch". now i had built the 4 files (for example changlog) in the /debian folder. what shall i do next? compile the package from the source code folder? Just want to finish the first test...
<minghua> ! packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<DaveMorris> DaveMorris: Hi, I'm reading the REVU guide on the wiki and it says I need to ask you kind admins to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring now that I've joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team.
<somerville32> DaveMorris, None are around at the moment :)
<DaveMorris> somerville32: do you know who they are?
<somerville32> DaveMorris, ajmitch is one
<DaveMorris> or what timezone they predominately are in?
<minghua> s1024kb: Four files?  Do you have debian/postinst and debian/postrm now?
 * Fujitsu returns.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I don't think he is, any more.
<s1024kb> minghua: no, just don't have them.
<minghua> DaveMorris: As far as I know the keyring is automatically synced, so waiting works too.
<s1024kb> minghua: where i can get them - even the template?
<minghua> s1024kb: Then you didn't follow the whole guide, I assume.  There is a "postinst and prerm" section.
<DaveMorris> minghua: every night it says via cron if you don't get a reply (not sure the timezone for it though)
<minghua> Fujitsu: Can you confirm that REVU keyring is still auto-synced?
<s1024kb> minghua: thanks, i will check it later.
<s1024kb> minghua: if i can place the postinst and prerm files, i can get my package done?
<Fujitsu> minghua: I don't believe it is.
<DaveMorris> Fujitsu: do you know who I need to ask to get it synced up then, since i've just joined the Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe team on LP
<minghua> s1024kb: Then you should follow the next section, "Building the Source Package", and then sections after that.
<Fujitsu> DaveMorris: Sure, sec.
 * minghua sighs.  Common MOTU problems -- the doc and reality doesn't match. :-(
<Fujitsu> minghua: Since tiber died, yeah.
<Fujitsu> DaveMorris: Hobbsee, siretart, pkern, sistpoty.
<DaveMorris> thanks
<minghua> Fujitsu: I vaguely remember that the keyring needed to be manually synced -- I didn't know it's still not fixed.
<minghua> Anyway, my rant is not going to help either.
<DaveMorris> thnaks for the info, I'll contact them in a moment
<s1024kb> minghua: so you mean that the next chapters explain the things in "basic scratch"?
<siretart> minghua: the keyring is synced via cronjob again
<siretart> every 24h
<minghua> s1024kb: No, next "sections", in the same "Packaging from Scratch" chapter.
<DaveMorris> siretart: could you do a manual sync for me?
<Fujitsu> siretart: Ah, thanks for clarifying.
<minghua> siretart: Aha, good to know.  Blame Fujitsu for the misinformation then. :-P
<siretart> DaveMorris: update running now, give it 30min to complete
<DaveMorris> do I get a mail to say my key has been added, or how cna I check?
<s1024kb> minghua: could you please explain to me does the command "sudo sed -i s/dapper/breezy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list" seems right? shall i replace somewhere when i am using gutsy?
<minghua> s1024kb: That page assumes you are using dapper.  So the chroot you created will have dapper in the sources.list.  That command change dapper to breezy.
<s1024kb> minghua: but i want to use the sources.list in the fakeroot. justnow i was there, but seems that the sources.list i was using was wrong. i need to modified it but don't know how to do.
<minghua> s1024kb: You can not use a sources.list in fakeroot.
<s1024kb> minghua: but how can i use "apt-get" there in fakeroot?
<s1024kb> minghua: is it fakeroot like a small Ubuntu system running in a virtual machine?
<minghua> s1024kb: You can't use "apt-get" with fakeroot, and you shouldn't.
<s1024kb> minghua: why?
<persia> (unless you are calling apt-get source, and you really really wanted to do that)
<minghua> s1024kb: No.  Read fakeroot(1) man page to see what fakeroot is.
<minghua> I suspect s1024kb is confusing fakeroot with pbuilder or chroot, but oh well.
<s1024kb> minghua: but in the DebootstrapChroot.htm, in the "Setting up your chroot with debootstrap", they said we can enter fakeroot and type "apt-get install wget debconf devscripts gnupg nano"... i was confused...
<minghua> s1024kb: It doesn't say that.  fakeroot is not mentioned on that page at all.
<s1024kb> minghua: oh, so it's chroot. i guess i am confused with chroot and fakeroot.
<s1024kb> minghua: so, just now i was in "chroot"?
<minghua> s1024kb: I have no idea where you are.  But as I've said, you don't need a chroot to following the packaging guide.
<s1024kb> minghua: okay... so i read the packaging guide again first this evening... but could you explain to me in a few words what is fakeroot and what is chroot, when to use them? Sorry, a tough question...
<minghua> s1024kb: fakeroot is a command to "pretend" that you are root.  chroot is a different ubuntu system running in your current system (like virtual machine, but not quite).
<s1024kb> minghua: haha, so just now i was in that virtual machine. but the source.list was not correct in that machine, shall i copy a right one there for "apt-get"? :-)
<minghua> s1024kb: I don't think your sources.list would be "not correct" in chroot.
<s1024kb> minghua: but i had view that file, couldn't find any sources of gutsy (almost an empty file), no wonder i type "apt-get" there in chroot and could not get anything back... :-)
<minghua> s1024kb: In that case you have a bigger problem...  Is your /etc/apt/sources.list is almost empty too?
<s1024kb> minghua: fortunately not... i view it just now. so i copy it there to the virtual machine?
<s1024kb> minghua: i guess that i had typed a wrong command and caused the problem...
<minghua> s1024kb: I don't know what you've been doing.  Just above the line with sed, it says "sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /var/chroot/etc/apt/", so the two files should be identical.
<s1024kb> minghua: thank you very much.
 * persia invokes Dktrkranz
<s1024kb> minghua: thank you, my virtual machine works. i go home now, bye.
<minghua> It's not a virtual machine...
<persia> minghua: terminology doesn't always translate well: it's especially tricky for those new to the terminology, and practicing the language...
<minghua> persia: Right.  I'm only saying (half to myself) after she left.
<minghua> I am generally bitter about wild inaccuracy of computer-related terminology in Chinese language.
 * Fujitsu grumbles that sbuild's build-depend resolution algorithm is inefficient and takes an insane amount of time in qemu.
<persia> minghua: I'm glad to hear it: most of the people I've worked with (either mainland or Formosa) seem to feel it doesn't matter.
<persia> Fujitsu: Could you suggest a better one?
<Fujitsu> persia: dpkg's doesn't seem to terribly slow.
<Fujitsu> s/to/to be/
 * persia decides to compare the code after finishing the sponsors queue
<persia> "to be"?  I read it as "too" :)
<Fujitsu> Could be either, I guess.
 * persia is amused by grammatical ambiguity
<Fujitsu> Silly English.
 * persia seeks advice and guidance from fbond re: bug #27833
<minghua> persia: I would like to ask you please not to use the "Formosa" name, at least not in conversations with me.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 27833 in midisport-firmware "Add support for MidiSport USB midi interfaces" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27833
<persia> minghua: OK.  I shan't again.
<minghua> persia: As for terminology, I am also a grammar/spelling nazi, so my opinion is probably not a popular one.
<persia> minghua: A spelling nazi for Hanzi?  I didn't know that was possible :)
<Tm_T> minghua: you use word nazi quite lightly
<somerville32> <.< >.>
<minghua> Tm_T: Sorry if that offense you, but I thought "spelling nazi" is a sort-of general expression.
<Tm_T> it is
<Tm_T> but I dont find it appropriate
<minghua> persia: Oh yes it's possible, and I'm (in)famous for that among my friends.
<Tm_T> just like "stfu" is general expression
<minghua> Tm_T: Can you recommend an alternative for me?
<Tm_T> minghua: police? as in "grammar-police" ?
<Tm_T> or whatever is your meaning
<Tm_T> hoora: hello
<Tm_T> anyone seen hoora saying something ever?
<somerville32> lol
 * Fujitsu greps.
<Tm_T> somerville32: no, I'm not kidding on this
<minghua> Tm_T: I'll use police from no on, thanks.
<Fujitsu> Tm_T: My logs seem to support your suggestion.
<Tm_T> Fujitsu: and behind tor, two things making me suspicios when together
<Fujitsu> A lot of people never say anything, however.
<Tm_T> minghua: I thank you
<somerville32> Tm_T, Maybe it is a US spy?
<Tm_T> anyway, thats offtopic
<elkbuntu> minghua, 'perfectionist' is probably a nicer term :)
<Tm_T> that too
<Tm_T> though perfectionist watches himself, police others ;)
<Tm_T> but maybe I'm missing the point so I'm silent
<broonie> elkbuntu: Half the point of the '-nazi' term is that it's not particularly nice.
<minghua> elkbuntu: I always feel that "perfectionist" is used for the attitude to one's own work, not to others. :-P
<minghua> But English is my second language, so...
<elkbuntu> broonie, it's also an overly misused word.
<persia> Tm_T: Depends on usage.  One can be externally perfectionist (usually whilst a hypocrite), or police oneself, but ...
<broonie> elkbuntu: Not particularly defending the usage, it's just one reason why choosing a "nice" term to replace it might not fit.
<Tm_T> also, "grammar-whiner" might show the not-so-nice tone ?
 * persia hunts huats
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki: Can you please do something about bug #160629? It doesn't seem to have had ubuntu-archive subscribed or anything.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160629 in xfonts-ay "please sync from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160629
<knights> Marnin!
<knights> Hmmm- no Fujitsu?
 * Fujitsu doesn't exist.
<knights> Who was that then?
<knights> I mean whats Fs normal nick?
<knights> or e-mail?
<knights> Ho Hobbsee!
<Fujitsu> Evening Hobbsee.
<knights> Sorry Fujitsu- I must've just not seen your nick in the list :)
<knights> Have you got to trying xdtv out yet?
<Hobbsee> hiya knights, Fujitsu
<knights> Hi Hobbsa!
<Fujitsu> knights: No, sorry, been busy with exams.
<knights> My other q of the day is- does the 7.10 desktop installer support resizing ntfs partitions?
<Hobbsee> of course.
<knights> gut gut
<Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
<Hobbsee> heck, the last few releases heave
<Hobbsee> -e
<Fujitsu> AFAIK we have since the start.
<knights> You'd think so now that it imports the desktop settings too!
<persia> Fujitsu: resizing?  I thought we didn't get that until Breezy or Dapper.
<knights> Well, I'll give the 7.10 desktop installer a go on another machine but it totally froze, twice over, on me on my last attempt when it was just about to star copying files over- I think it was when it was detecting partitions. I installed 7.10 alt on that same machine fine and both discs were checked.
<knights> so I'm just a bit wary about that desktop installer y'see
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm pretty sure we had it in Breezy.
<Fujitsu> And I thought Hoary, but maybe not.
<persia> Fujitsu: Whenever we integrated Colin's new installer.  In the beginning there was another installer.
<fernando> moin all
<knights> Have freezes using the 7.10 desktop installer been commonly reported. This PC in question was put together for Linux- all the hardware works 100% with most distros
<Hobbsee> knights: was it 7.10 final?
<knights> yes
<Hobbsee> not the RC?
<Fujitsu> persia: Didn't d-i do resizing?
<Hobbsee> i dont know of the *final* having issues - but the RC certainly did.
<knights> Not irc and I checked both the MD5 and the disc using the install tool
<persia> Fujitsu: For FAT
<knights> Not rc sorry
<Hobbsee> hm.  check for bugs on it.  if it's reproducible, report it with running gksudo ubiquity --debug
<persia> (I believe d-i resizes NTFS now as well)
<knights> alt installed without a hitch on that PC tho
<Hobbsee> persia: that long has.
<persia> Hobbsee: define long.  I remember when it didn't exist :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks, bug #160303
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160303 in dosemu-freedos "Dependency problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160303
 * Fujitsu opens up a gutsy chroot.
<Hobbsee> persia: right, but i rmemeber resizing in breezy at least - hoary did support it, except i didnt realise what i was doing
<knights> Fujitsu: Any other MOTUs you know who might be interested in a video capture, streaming and DVR app like xdtv?
<Fujitsu> knights: No idea.
<knights> who packages mplayer, xine, devede?
 * Fujitsu does a bit of mplayer.
<knights> Its as important as those apps to linux video- cinelerra and KDEnlive too of course
<Hobbsee> xine is done by siretart
 * knights can't believe its new to boontoo!
<knights> Aha!
<knights> is his e-mail on the wiki / launchpad?
<persia> knights: If you want new apps, you'll do a lot better just to jump in and work on things than to email people.
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: did you do exaile yet, btw?
<Hobbsee> er, no, bluekuja
<knights> persia: Well I've uploaded xdtv to REVU and mu understanding was that I now need 2 MOTUs to review and approve my package so I'm just fishing for MOTUs who'd be up for it
<knights> Fujitsu might try it soon so thats 1
<persia> knights: The next REVU day is very likely scheduled for the 12th (although this will be confirmed on the 9th).  In the meantime, if you think your package is ready, you may advertise the REVU url not more than once each 24 hours in this channel, and if someone has time, they will review it.
<persia> On REVU day, you may advertise more often, and are much more likely to get a review.
<knights> Oh right! I had no idea about any of this!
<persia> knights: That's why you've come here: ask anything (on topic), and we'll try to get you an answer.
<knights> indeed, thanks p
 * Hobbsee sends a "please upgrade me" bug to debian.
<persia> Hobbsee: which package?
<Hobbsee> persia: exaile
<Hobbsee> it's actually a decent amarok replacement - woot!
<persia> Why is amarok bad?
<Hobbsee> on gnome?
<Hobbsee> multimedia keys dont work without a script, and the script tends to unload itself at random
<Hobbsee> and the visualisations dont work well with compiz, if you keep it open
<persia> Ah.  It's the "on GNOME" part I missed.  Yes, amarok isn't ideal.
<Hobbsee> amarok's awesome on kde, and mostly awesome on gnome.
 * persia further notes that hardy amarok needs a xine-lib transition
<Hobbsee> mmm, it does.
 * persia wonders about the relationship between libqalculate and qalculate-kde
<wraund> can anyone mentor me on making a debian package, fixing a bug, or doing a patch/upgrade?
<Hobbsee> persia: both of them can be NMU'd in debian.
 * Hobbsee got an email back from the maintainer, saying he had no time, but hoped to in the future, so to go ahead with packaigng
<ScottK> persia: Agreed (at least in part).
<persia> Hobbsee: ftp-master wasn't working last I heard.  What should I do about the bug in queue?
<Hobbsee> persia: huh?
<persia> re: bug #102328 & http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libqalculate
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102328 in qalculate-gtk "New upstream release available" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102328
<Hobbsee> and this relates to ftp-master how?
<Hobbsee> oh, as in, debian's not recieving uploads?
<persia> Hobbsee: Blocks the NMU tonight and sync later solution.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> if it's fine, feel ree to stick it in ubuntu, and then shove it back to debian later
<persia> ScottK: Are you getting back to me about backscroll, or commenting on the current item?
<persia> Hobbsee: Ummm...  I'll forget, but I suspect it'll flag on the KDE team's lists: would I be wrong?
<Hobbsee> persia: now, there's a good point.
<persia> Hobbsee: In that case, shall I assign the bug to you to remember later as part of your coordination with the Debian maintainer?
<Hobbsee> persia: mmm kay.
<Hobbsee> but that means i actually have to *do* something about it :P
 * persia thanks Hobbsee and owes her a bug
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> hm, guess i should deactivate myself, too
<knights> persia send I can pimp my package url once today so I'm not turning him down
<knights> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=xdtv
<knights> xdtv - by far the best v4l2 capture tool for Linux!
<knights> :D
<persia> knights: When advertising, I recommend mentioning the number of advocates you have, and if you've responded to the last comment (if there was one).
<knights> No comments yet but my own
<knights> multimedia on Linux is still highly occult it seems
<knights> I've just mailed siretart tho, maybe he'll pull through?
<persia> knights: Maybe.  Many developers don't prefer to receive unsolicited mail for things better handled through bugs or REVU entries, although most try to respond.
<knights> fair enough. Multimedia production, I should've said. Most Linux wants want movie playback. Capture...?
<persia> knights: Also, you can save yourself the most painful parts of a review by running lintian and linda with the flags listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing against your .dsc and (binary) .changes file.
<persia> DrKranz: I was looking for you: there's a bunch of SRUs pending, and I wanted some comments to understand what went where, when, and why.
<DrKranz> persia, sure. IIRC, there are three or four
<pkern> Fujitsu: pong ;)
<persia> DrKranz: I'll be about for another hour or so: let me know when is best for you for anything targeted for gutsy
<DrKranz> persia, I quicly checked SRU request which I subscribed. It seems there's no gutsy related stuff to provide, just Feisty and Edgy, but I will look at them more carefully, especially to dapper -> hardy upgrades
<persia> DrKranz: Thanks.  I hadn't looked at them carefully after seeing your name, figuring that you were probably watching the process fairly closely anyway.  Now we just need someone with more chroots available to upload :)
<DrKranz> hehe, or wait for you to free some space :)
<persia> DrKranz: Well, maybe, although me upgrading to hardy will likely happen first (and then I only need one hardy chroot instead of two, and can install feisty)
<DrKranz> Do you need an account to run pbuilder chroots? It's not a problem to set up it
<persia> DrKranz: I believe you already gave me one :)  The problem is more that I can't as easily test the behaviour on a chroot on your server (or would have to think more about it).
<DrKranz> Ok, if you'll ever need some, just ask
<DrKranz> now, let's improve my FTBFS script
<persia> DrKranz: Another question: is Debian bug #448439 the same as Bug #88595 ?
<ubotu> Debian bug 448439 in util-vserver "Config file not consistent" [Minor,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/448439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88595 in util-vserver "[apport] vserver-info crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88595
<joumetal> persia: qalculate-kde and qalculate-gtk both depends libqalculate.
<persia> (or did you put something else in there that you want)
<persia> joumetal: Yes.  As I understand things, there is an ongoing plan to take the work from REVU & the bug, tweak it for Debian, and send it up, syncing the results.
<DrKranz> persia, I need to verify since I checked that for 0.30.214-4, but it doesn't seem the same issue for me
<persia> DrKranz: Thanks.  I'll unsassign me and assign you then.  No rush: it looks to be fixed in hardy, but I don't know enough about the tools to be sure that we can link the bugs and have done with it.
<persia> DrKranz: Wait: I misread.  "doesn't seem the same issue"?
<DrKranz> Yes. I think they are two separate fixes
<persia> DrKranz: Ah.  I see.  Both uploads have two fixes, and one is common, but the other isn't.  I'll just do a merge then.  Thanks.
<DrKranz> persia, wait just a bit
 * persia is always happy to wait
<DrKranz> I would like to check it before and try to solve it another way (by fixing dietlibc)
<DrKranz> since several packages suffers from segfaults during build time or at runtime, I think it's because of dietlibc being compiled with stack protector
<DrKranz> or without it
<persia> DrKranz: Ah.  That'd be even better, but I suspect it won't happen quick.  I'll just wait for it to come back in queue then.
<DrKranz> this issue does not touch Debian since I think they do not do use of stack protector (correct me if I'm wrong)
<persia> DrKranz: I don't believe they use a stack protector, but I'm not sure I understand the issue well enough to know that is the cause of the segfaults.
<zul> morning
<rexbron> persia: hey, I got the get-orig-source rule to work for genpo :)
<DrKranz> It's three asm opcodes, IIRC. since dietlibc currently FTBFS if compiled with stack protector enabled, every package built against them should be instructed to disable it as well or by using gcc-3.4, even it's a workaround, not a fix
<rexbron> little mistakes like forgetting to set variables outside the make target....
<persia> rexbron: Excellent work!  I think that was the last issue, wasn't it?
<rexbron> persia: other than the icon
<rexbron> i think so
<persia> DrKranz: Ah.  That makes sense.  I agree that dietlibc is the place to solve it.
<persia> somerville32: Where's the "notecase" bug I was expecting?
<DrKranz> I will look at it carefully, I just need time to discover *how* and eventually managing rebuilds/givebacks
<persia> DrKranz: No rush.  I'm just trying to get the UUS queue back into shape so that people don't have to wait a few days to get uploaded.
<proppy> hi
<DrKranz> for now, you can safely remove it from the queue, since I'm focusing on the real source of the matter :)
<rexbron> persia: also, I have switched to a versioned -dev package with a Provides: openlibraries-dev as per the debian library packaging guide and completely revamped the package structure to comply with policy
<persia> rexbron: Excellent.  Monday will be a good day :)
<RainCT> hi
<rexbron> Is that when the next review day is?
<DrKranz> see you later
<rexbron> persia: I have also contacted upstream regarding setting -rpath on the libs, and they said they will look into it
 * Hobbsee wonders if there's a way to see how far tracker is thru indexing.
<persia> rexbron: Not officially, but likely.  Monday seems to be the least likely to conflict with anything else, but we confirm every MOTU Meeting.
<rexbron> !schedual
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about schedual - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<rexbron> ...
<rexbron> spelling
<persia> Hobbsee: You can see current status, but don't be surprised if it gets confused.
<Hobbsee> persia: right, so i tcan be indexing forever, with no way of knowing if it's actually done or not
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Last week someone mentioned it had indexed the same static, unchanging file 472 times :)
<Hobbsee> persia: keybuk likes cursing it.  wouldnt surprise me
<persia> Hobbsee: That would be the source...
<Hobbsee> hrm.  i wonder why it wont let me tell it to do thunderbird email indexing
 * persia is impressed that submissions to the U-U-S queue are keeping even pace with removals: thank you for the contributions!
<frafu> Hello, I am planning to submit an application to revu that is called mousetweaks and that adds accessibility functions to the pointer. It comes with a gui for the settings and a manual for yelp. It is also possible to enable the different features by cli and "mousetweaks --help" is available. But it does not have any man page. My Question: Are man pages required for the submission to revu?
<rexbron> frafu: They are strongly recommended and having one will assist in getting the app into the archives
<persia> frafu: They aren't required for submission, but they are almost always required for approval.  You may as well do it before you submit.
<frafu> ok; thanks. Consequently, I have to look up how to create them...
<persia> norsetto: Please stop blocking merge requests just because someone forget to set the status to "Confirmed"
<persia> ls
<norsetto> persia: its not stopping, is asking people to respect the procedures
<norsetto> persia: it could be a good idea for you to remember them actually
<persia> norsetto: Erm.  OK.  I'll go for that.
<persia> norsetto: which ones?
<norsetto> persia: an email to ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors for instance
<persia> email about?
<mok0> I
<norsetto> persia: about setting the status and assignee correctly
 * persia looks
<mok0> I've had to make changes in aclocal.m4, so in debian/rules I need to patch, then run aclocal et al., then configure etc. Can this be accomplished using cdbs?
<persia> norsetto: Any guidance on dates?  I'm not finding anything matching "assignee" and "ubuntu-motu" in my spool.
<RainCT> norsetto: hi. why did you set bug 157992 to incomplete?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157992 in bip "Please merge bip 0.6.1-1 from Debian unstable main" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157992
<norsetto> RainCT: because I ask you a question
<norsetto> persia: I'm talking about SENDING an email to remember people, not about one that was sent already
<geser> are we now that pedantic about the status in the u-u-s queue?
<persia> norsetto: Sending an email to remind people about procedures?  Ah: I'm waiting until after the meeting, as the current agenda is filled with sponsoring procedure items, and I want to wait until we have a new consensus.
<norsetto> geser: I would expect better from a member of the council; procedures are there for good reasons, for instance to make it easier for sponsors to work on the real bugs instead of sifting through them
<persia> geser: At least I'm not currently, but norsetto raises a good point that people should be encouraged to follow the procedure.  I'm not taking a stance either way right now,
<persia> norsetto: The easy way to achieve that is to have all triaged bugs uploaded or unsubscribed as documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<norsetto> persia: thats right, but I wanted to be polite and ask the people, not just unsubscribe u-u-s
<persia> norsetto: Right, but when it's not unsubscribed, someone else needs to look at it.
<norsetto> persia: indeed
<RainCT> norsetto: ah. well, a comment Â«merges awaiting sponsorship should be set to confirmedÂ» would have been more useful ;P
<geser> norsetto: I'm also for following procedures but I'm not to punish contributors because of a wrongly set status (unless that contributor got reminded about it)
<norsetto> geser: nobody is punished. People is aksed why their bug is set fix-committed or new, is that a punishment? I consider this an help....
<geser> especially when we have to difference between New and Confirmed (it's ok for using In Progress wrongly)
<norsetto> gser: and yes, some contributors have been remineded not once, neither twice but several times already
<persia> norsetto: Those contributors deserve a special purgatory.  I tend to unsubscribe and delay sponsoring until they have met my satisfaction in email or IRC.
<norsetto> rainct: I don't know what you want to do with it, so asking is more approproiate than presuming I know
<norsetto> persia: well, I'm not much for punishing (contrary to what some people presume)
<RainCT> norsetto: ah, good point.
<persia> norsetto: I guess it depends on the number of transgressions, and the nature thereof.
<geser> norsetto: perhaps "punish" was to strong but setting a bug to incomplete is "there is something wrong/missing" on sponsoring request for me and I usually don't look at those bugs and ignore them
 * persia also tends to ignore "Incomplete" except when the queue gets messy
<norsetto> geser: yes, thats what I wanted to avoid "don't look at those bugs and ignore them", so, I aksed the people to correct and sponsor it afterwards (I know, I guess I'm pretty naif in believing that this will make them learn)
<norsetto> huats: is the last patch agreed with pkern?
<persia> norsetto: Not necessarily naive, perhaps optimistic.
<norsetto> persia: as we say in my country: "hope is the last one to die" (you are good at hoping when you are at the bottom ;-))
<geser> norsetto: it very optimistic in case of bug #157160
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157160 in ddclient "Please merge ddclient 3.7.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157160
<persia> geser: That's a somewhat special case though (and showing (slight and slow) improvement)
<persia> geser: Just as a counterexample (not that I think UUS needs the extra subscribed bug traffic), bug #137513 is doing well.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<persia> Grr,  LLP should support approve / decline for release on a per-task basis!
<RainCT> what do I need to do to create a pbuilder hardy environment (it says: Â« No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hardyÂ»)? install package debootstrap from hardy?
<persia> RainCT: Just dist-upgrade from gutsy
<geser> RainCT: yes, install debootstrap from hardy and it should work
<persia> RainCT: As a general note, this is easiest to do the day the archive opens, as not much has changed.  Alternately, one can wait until there is a new working debootstrap, but this usually waits until the versions of the core software are somewhat stable.
<persia> geser: it's already fixed?  It seems soon.
<geser> the debootstrap package from hardy has a hardy script already
<geser> there is no backport of it but it can be installed without problems on gutsy
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<geser> that's what I did to build a hardy pbuilder on gutsy
<norsetto> yes,the debootstrap in hardy is ok, I used it several weeks ago already
<pkern> norsetto: Hm?
<norsetto> pkern: I was wondering if the last patch from huats for bug 137513 was discussed with you
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<\sh> moins
<\sh> can someone review bug #160733 and push it to the archive admins, pls? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160733 in apertium "[MoM Sync] please sync apertium 3.0.4-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160733
<pkern> norsetto: ACK'ed.
<norsetto> pkern: thanks
<persia> \sh: Thanks for catching that.
<\sh> persia, I'm starting to work on my merges...so please be alarmed ,-)
<persia> \sh: If you're starting your merges, I hope you're considering team applications again, or we'll be overwhelmed :)
<\sh> persia, I'm rushing over the list of MoM with my name on it first...it looks like that's a lot again ,-)
<persia> \sh: It can get that way if you're not careful...
 * persia wonders why sbuild has suddenly decided not to work, only for apertium
<huats> norsetto: no...
<\sh> persia, well,grabmerge and checking the changelog first, building the debian package first, when the bugs are already fixed debian upstream...so I think most of them will result in syncs
<huats> it was just myself who is an idiot...
<norsetto> huats: well, you did now ;-)
<norsetto> huats: oh come on!
<persia> \sh: Excellent.  That makes chasing RC bugs later *much* easier.
<huats> I did the same mistake twice "putting it the status to fix committed" once I have put a patch....
<\sh> persia, the latest uploads with my name on it were CVE bug fixes or FTBFS source fixes...most reported to debian already
<persia> \sh: That makes it extra easy.  I should really start doing the hard stuff, instead of the little things that don't matter and sit in the BTS for six to eight months...
<huats> norsetto: but it has been discussed with pkern and (I don't remember his name) (a guy who is "charge" with firefox in ubuntu...)
<norsetto> huats: asac ....
<huats> norsetto: exactly
<persia> norsetto: Thanks for the catch.  I was reviewing the bug, and failed to adequately review the patch.
<huats> (it was some weeks ago)
<geser> how long does it currently take to get an universe package build?
<persia> geser: About a week.
<\sh> persia, would it be better to tag those sync reports with hardy-mom-sync or something like that?
<norsetto> persia: no need to thank, we are all in the same boat :-)
<persia> \sh: Doesn't really make a difference.  I use the sync tag, but neither UUS nor UA sorts by tag
<persia> Errr  "sync" tag
<\sh> persia, ok...so I just subscribe uus
<persia> \sh: Depends on your preferred workflow.  Some people use requestsync, some create a bug.  If you're doing the bug by hand, I find it easier to use the "complicated bug filing form", in which case the tag field is easy to enter.
<\sh> persia, I have a script for that ,-)
<persia> \sh: Bug generally, yes, just subscribe the team.  We hit single digits today, so I expect processing for hardy-targeted patches to happen within 24 hours for the next few weeks.
<persia> That explains your interestingly formatted bug :)
<norsetto> huats: still around?
<huats> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> huats: you patch is for gutsy ....
<huats> norsetto: it was done during gutsy...
<huats> and never reviewed since...
<norsetto> huats: because somebody used the wrong status most probably ....
<huats> (probably because I did a mistake in the status)
<huats> exactly
<huats> I am faulty
<huats> ...
<norsetto> huats: anyhow, is this needed for hardy?
<huats> it is
<huats> I think
<huats> let me chack
<huats> check
<huats> norsetto: since it is the same package in gutsy and hardy...
<huats> it is still needed for hardy...
<norsetto> huats: right, do you think an sru is justified?
<pkern> It delivers a completely new, untested package.
<huats> well, right now without that, the package is unsuable
<huats> so without it there is a unmetdependency pb with it...
<norsetto> pkern, huats: what is the lesser evil, removing it from gutsy or fixing it?
<norsetto> pkern, huats: or, we fix it in hardy (which we do anyhow) and ask for a backport
<huats> from my point of view, the modifications are very little... depenences on firefox/thunderbird were added.... and thus creation of new single package that has every link possible (once for FF, one for TB, one for icedove and one for iceweasel) instead of having 2 identicals packages (1 for icedove/1for 1iceweasel)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<\sh> moins barry
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser, \sh
<norsetto> huats: what is the short description?
<huats> norsetto: short description?
<norsetto> huats: yes, the one in /control
<huats> oh
<huats> let me check again...
<\sh> ok..time to go home :)
<\sh> cu tomorrow :)
<huats> norsetto: I have reflect in the description that right now the package deals with FF/TB/icedove/iceweasel
<huats> \sh: good night
<\sh> huats, a good night is far away for me :)
<norsetto> huats: right now it seems that the short description is spilling over to the long one?
<\sh> if someone wants to do something, I filed some sync reqs...some are already acked by persia the others are in the sponsors queue
<\sh> thx
<Nafallo> meeh
<huats> norsetto: rrrrggggg
<huats> norsetto: it was with myself...
<norsetto> huats: np, I'm working on it in real time
<huats> ok
<huats> norsetto: I am booting my personal computer where I still have all the fileS...
<norsetto> huats: if we add all the programs its too long, so either we omit them all, or we simply say "browser"
<huats> norsetto: browser is not really an option
<huats> since there is Thunderbird/Icedove
<norsetto> huats: what about "1 click Tor extension" and we add all of those in the long one?
<norsetto> huats: the alternative is to use the name Mozilla somewhere
<norsetto> huats: right now the long description only talk of iceweasel
<norsetto> huats: ok, what about "Description: iceweasel/firefox/icedove/thunderbird 1-click Tor extension" for the short (sic) one
<huats> norsetto: great
<norsetto> huats: ok, I'm adding the whole plethora to the long one too
<huats> ok
<norsetto> first line: Torbutton is a 1-click way for iceweasel/firefox/icedove/thunderbird users to
<norsetto> second line: enable or disable the browser's use of Tor (an anynomous communication system).
<norsetto> huats: hmmm, browser should go too
<huats> norsetto: I think so
<huats> but since it was the original text (from the Debian Package) I haven't modified it a lot...
<norsetto> huats: what is the criteria for the versions in Depends?
<huats> none
<huats> I just took the one in the current ones
<huats> at the moment...
<huats> (that is regarding FF and TB)
<huats> for Ice* I took the versions in the Debian Package
<norsetto> huats: you tested it only with FF or with all?
<huats> norsetto: with FF/TB
<huats> since I don't have a debian it is not possible for testing  with Ice*
<norsetto> huats: thats not a problem, you can most probably install the debian package
 * norsetto wonders why we keep the icedove then
<huats> norsetto: like for the iceweasel
<norsetto> huats: I mean, asac and pkern told you to add icedove and iceweasel even if we don't have them in ubuntu?
<huats> since we hope to send it to debian I think... (that was the idea of asac I think)
<norsetto> huats: you want to be surprised? Do an apt-cache search iceweasel
<huats> yeah I know
<huats> it is the one in the name
<huats> that is why asac told me to rename it...
<norsetto> huats: ok, let me build and test it, if ok I may upload it to hardy
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: but for gutsy its either an sru or backport
<norsetto> huats: or a removal ....
<huats> I know....
<huats> I think the removal will be a bit silly
<huats> since the work is done
<huats> but I understand that the backport may not be simple.... and I am not even talking about the SRU
<norsetto> huats: I can't sponsor the sru anyhow, since I can't test it (I have neither ff nor tb and don't want to install them for this....)
<huats> norsetto: I was not asking that
<norsetto> huats: I know, but I would have gladly done it if ff or tb were not involved
<huats> norsetto: I know
<norsetto> huats: is this tor thingie really working?
<huats> norsetto: honnestly I don't know
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: I imagined ;-)
<norsetto> huats: I need to test this, so let me log out and install the bloated FF in another partition
<huats> ok
<huats> or send me your .deb...
<norsetto> huats: looks good with FF. I trust that you tested it with TB succesfully?
<huats> I did
<huats> but I'll understood if you want to test it by yourself...
<norsetto> huats: uploaded it, I also unsubscribed u-u-s, please subscribe again once decided what to do for gutsy
<huats> norsetto: because i am the one who should decide ?
<huats> norsetto: what is your opinion ?
<norsetto> huats: you are the one working on it, its up to you and/or the bug reporter
<huats> ok
<huats> so I have to see that with pkern
<norsetto> huats: my personal opinion is to try a backport now that it is in hardy
<huats> ok
<pkern> What.
<pkern> You highlight me all the time.
<huats> :-)
<huats> you are the bug reporter....
<pkern> Oh, right.
<huats> so your opinion is highly valuable
<huats> :D
<pkern> *cough*
<huats> it is still regarding  bug 137513
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS] torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<pkern> I don't see much harm in a backport.
<pkern> But I'm against a SRU.
<mok0> How can I get pbuilder to include multiverse, other than creating a new one?
<huats> great
<pkern> It should have been removed from gutsy, though.
<pkern> From gutsy proper.
<huats> I understand
<huats> is it possible to remove it right now, and do a backport ?
<pkern> For the former the archive admins are responsible, for the latter the backports team
<huats> but I mean, doing both actions... will it makes  sense ?
<huats> I think it will...
<huats> but I am not confortable with that procedures...
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: can I ask you a thinh ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> *thing
<ScottK> Removals after release are almost never done.  Usually it has to be something like it's illegal not to remove it.
<huats> ScottK: it is an unmet dep...
<ScottK> huats: They won't remove it for that.
<huats> ScottK: ok
<huats> thanks
<pkern> ScottK: I really dislike this attitude.
<ScottK> pkern: I'm not an archive admin, so I can't affect it.
<Hobbsee> gutsy is frozen, they wont remove anything.
<Hobbsee> (unless illegal or something)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Maybe you could weigh in on the best way to solve the unmet deps problem that huats is working on?
<huats> ScottK and Hobbsee  : we (I mean with norsetto) have uploaded to hardy
<Hobbsee> huats: good
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: shoot :-)
<huats> and we were thinking of a backport for gutsy...
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, not yet, just went home. I'll look at it now in few minutes
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: i filed a wishlist bug in debian abotu it, FYI
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ehm, too late :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hm.  fix in hardy, anything before that is a bonus.
<ScottK> RIght.
<Hobbsee> (ther'es much bigger stuff to fix, and other stuff to do)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, want me to update it anyway?
<ScottK> So the question is can we put a new package in Updates
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, or we wait debian?
<bluekuja> (hoping to have ries again working)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: no idea how responsive debian are.
<Hobbsee> ries?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if you do a SRU, yes.
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: oh well ... next time don't ask to ask, ask :-)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, ries.debian.org aka ftp-master
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ok :)
<bluekuja> currently down
<bluekuja> for some hard-drive problems
<bluekuja> I think
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: oh, right.  i find it hard enough to remember the codenames of the canonical machines, let alone the debian machine names, in most cases
<Hobbsee> yeah, multiple hard drive failure.
<ScottK> norsetto and huats: I'd take what Hobbsee said and think SRU rather than backports.  A backport wouldn't be a proper solution anyway
<bluekuja> yep :/
<Hobbsee> if you'd said ftp-master... :)
<Hobbsee> i would have got it
<bluekuja> yeah, sorry
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> no problem
<bluekuja> it's faster to say ries
<bluekuja> you know
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> indeed
<bluekuja> so less words
<bluekuja> :P
<Hobbsee> type faster :P
<bluekuja> hehe :D
<Hobbsee> problem solved.
<bluekuja> true :)
<norsetto> scottK: whatever you guys decide, I call me out for an sru
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, anyway if you want me to do it, it's fine
<bluekuja> if not we wait debian
<bluekuja> same for me
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: go ahead :)
<bluekuja> oki :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, you may open a wishlist for ubuntu as well
<ScottK> norsetto: I don't decide anything.
<bluekuja> and assign to me
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: that would require effort, and i doubt anyone else will touch it anyway
<norsetto> scottk: whatever you guys who partecipate in the decison making process concord
<Hobbsee> (seeing as it's not shown on mom, etc)
<ScottK> norsetto: For SRU it's up to the MOTU uploading.  I'm just suggesting the archive would take and SRU, but not a removal.  It's advice, not a decison.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yeah, fine then
<norsetto> scottk: on the sru bit, I actually had a chat with martin yesterday
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> What did he say?
<norsetto> scottk: he is apparently not very happy about the decision to disactivate motu-sru
<ScottK> OK.  Well that was done quite some time ago.
<norsetto> scottk: right, but he is of the opinion that this policy should be changed (or something to that effect, don't remember the exact words)
<ScottK> OK.  Well for now it is what it is.  He can argue at a MOTU meeting if he thinks it should be different (I'm inclined to agree with him though).
<norsetto> scottK: in principle I also think he is right, in practice adding another layer to a procedure which is already very long (months right now) will not make things easier
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, for versioning should I continue the +debian tag?
<bluekuja> or I use default versioning
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure why the +debian is there at all, tbh.  it seems to have been there from the original release - so i'm not sure if they've repackaged it, or what
<bluekuja> yeah, I don't understand why they use that tag as well
<bluekuja> plus there is a debian dir inside as well
<bluekuja> (inside orig)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, plus debian package is 1.8 MB
<bluekuja> upstream now is 6.8
<bluekuja> bzr folder inside....removed...and now we have 2.8
<norsetto> huats: what do you make of this: "Programme pour crÃ©er des cartes mentales"
<norsetto> huats: Seems like something out of a mental asylum to me. In English is "Program to create mind maps"
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I'll use default versioning then
<bluekuja> until we wait debian
<Hobbsee> ok
<pkern> Hobbsee: Of course it's frozen.  It should have been removed pre-release, of course.
<Hobbsee> of course, yes.
<DaveMorris> Hi, I've packaged up OpenSG and put it on REVU, can someone take a look at it for me please : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=opensg-dev
<bear> hello folks
<pkern> Hobbsee: But people are against removing early.  Maybe a morgue will be implemented.
<bear> looking to start the process to get some python packages into universe, basically to become a MOTU
<bear> started with the package builder guide - working thru it - is there a FAQ for what I need to setup on launchpad - kinda a "best practices" guide?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: sebastien suggested me not to traslate the .desktop file at all and to get it translated upstream
<ScottK> norsetto: It doesn't have to be months.  I've gotten them out in a week.  It's mostly a question of testing.  If we had a dedicated motu-sru team that was actually responsive, it wouldn't have to add a lot of time.
<norsetto> scottk: agreed
<pkern> ScottK: Those need manpower?  I thought stuff is done by MOTUs all by themselves?
<norsetto> scottk: my personal experience right now is unfortunately in the order of months, so much so that I'm personally thinking to not bother anymore
<ScottK> pkern: Sure, but we do have stuff like motu-uvf where they have some extra role.
<pkern> ScottK: i.e. upload, verification-motu-needed and -done, and intervention of the archive admins?  Or is the task of motu-sru to ACK uploads?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: well, I agree in principle with sebastien, in this case its a desktop in debian though
 * pkern needs an Ubuntu env again, but Ubuntu makes it hard.
<norsetto> rospo_zoppo: so, what you are doing is correct, passing over the .desktop to debian and asking them
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yep I didn't consider that :)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: so let's do as you said
<ScottK> pkern: I think (and we need to discuss) that motu-sru would pass on should something be an SRU (is it SRU worthy and is the approach reasonable for an SRU).
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: if debian is not responsive (which doesn't seem to be the case in this case) we might need to do differently of course
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: do you know someone here who knows french or german ? :)
<norsetto> bear: have you checked the packaging guide?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: geser is german and huats french, sebastien too ;-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> ok
<bear> norsetto, yep - saw it was under-going change so just wanted to double check I was in the right spot
<Rospo_Zoppo> geser: can you tell me how would you translate "create mind maps" in german ?
<huats> norsetto: can you replace the context ?
<norsetto> bear: it is indeed being worked on, so you may find soime duplications here and there and some "work in progress" stuff
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: I am french indeed
<norsetto> bear: if thats a problem, you can use the old one, let me fetch a link for you
<bear> norsetto, cool - I'll get to the point where I have one of the python packages with a deb setup
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: ok, can you tell me how would it be in french ?
<bear> norsetto, not a problem at all - just making sure I hit the ground running and don't wander down a wrong path
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: I mean "Create mind maps"
<norsetto> bear: here: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html but you won't find much about packaging for python there
<azeem> .
<azeem> eh, oops
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: can you explain me the context a bit ?
<azeem> EWIN
<bear> norsetto, yea, saw that - was going to find a recent package and see how they did it
<Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: "Mindmap erstellen" vor the German one :)
<Nightrose> *for
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: it is a comment for a .desktop file
<norsetto> bear: you can check joekosher, its one of our reference packages for python
<norsetto> bear: jokosher even
<bear> norsetto, oh sweet - that is perfect
<Rospo_Zoppo> Nightrose: thanks, but is the verb the first word ? if not, is it possible to have that ?
 * bear goes to write that down
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: what package is it ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: it's vym
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: let me check this package
<huats> and I come with the sentence
<RainCT> Rospo_Zoppo: (I can Catalan and Spanish, if you want them :))
<huats> :-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: thank you
<Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: the verb is "erstellen" - can't think of one where the verb is at the beginning
<norsetto> bear: I cal also suggest you look at this: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ and this: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, at least to have things in a context
<norsetto> nightrose: imperative?
<Rospo_Zoppo> RainCT: there is no spanish entry at all at the moment, but we can add it :)
<Nightrose> norsetto: possible but sounds strange: "erstelle eine Mindmap"
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: try and tell rainCT that catalan is not a language and watch for his reaction :-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: lol
<huats> :D
<Rospo_Zoppo> Nightrose: does it sound ugly ?
<RainCT> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't mind about the Spanish one, having the Catalan translation would be nice (if it isn't already there) :). what package is it, btw? :P
<Nightrose> Rospo_Zoppo: I think so
<Rospo_Zoppo> RainCT: vym
 * RainCT slaps norsetto
<Rospo_Zoppo> lol
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: see? I told you .....
<Rospo_Zoppo> Nightrose: so let's take the first one you gave ;)
<Nightrose> ;-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: you're a seer
<RainCT> norsetto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language  Get some culture
<RainCT> :P
<norsetto> rainct: I had a cataln colleague whose name was Joan, and of course I was pronouncing it the castillan way (juan). I was lucky he was half my size .....
<RainCT> ah you said it to Rospo, didn't read your first msg well lol
<RainCT> haha
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: the previous string was Programme pour crÃ©er des cartes mentales
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: oui j'ai vu
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: oups
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: yeah I saw
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: :D
<huats> :-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: do you think that even the name string should be translated ?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: can you remember it for me?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: the name of the package ?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: no, what the name string was? And how you changed it?
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: so we need a sentence that starts with an imperativ verb right ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: yep
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: VYM - View Your Mind
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I don't know if we have to translate this because there is VYM
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: and we should find three words with VYM in each language
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: yes, leave it like this, catalans are intelligent enough to understand it anyhow
<RainCT> lol
<Rospo_Zoppo> lol
 * norsetto is surprised he has not been splapped again!? SO he slaps himself 
<Rospo_Zoppo> lol
<RainCT> XD
<RainCT> norsetto: I'll take it as a compliment :P
<norsetto> rainct : it was :-)
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: "CrÃ©ez vos propres reprÃ©sentations mentales" would be ok I think
<Rospo_Zoppo> huats: thank you very much
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: now the .desktop file is complete
<huats> Rospo_Zoppo: no pb
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: cool, send it to the debian bug report then
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yes
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: if you want to check, here is the debdiff http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1791/
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't remember, was this the one where you added the .xpm icon?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: no, that was njam :)
 * norsetto is becoming older each day that passes
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: bug number 159313
<Rospo_Zoppo> lol
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: looks ok, I think that sending the .desktop is enough isn't?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: just sent it
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: is it necessary for me to attach that debdiff in lp ?
<norsetto> bug 159313
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159313 in vym "Please merge vym 1.10.0 from Debian unstable " [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159313
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: have you read what I wrote in the debian bug report
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: Vym .desktop file is ok
<Rospo_Zoppo> :D
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: yes pls, but don't subscribe yet u-u-s, lets wait to see what debian is doing and then we decide. If debian is not doing anything in a reasonable amount of timealso re-subscribe u-u-s, ok?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: you may also leave a remark in DaD about the bug number so that other people is warned about the merge
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ok, I attach the debdiff but no sponsorship at the moment
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: already done in DaD ;)
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: good boy :-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> :)
 * RainCT wonders if he is the only one using m.u.c
<RainCT> (m.u.c = MoM)
<joejaxx> norsetto: i was wondering why you marked those bugs incomplete? were the merges not of sufficient quality?
 * RainCT wonders if anyone is reading what he says
<RainCT> joejaxx: what was their status?
<joejaxx> RainCT: i put them as in progress because they were incomplete before
<norsetto> joejaxx: you should set it to confirmed not in progress if you need sponsorhip
<joejaxx> norsetto: so you are not going to go through them? since you touched it? :)
 * RainCT thinks that norsetto is evil
<norsetto> joejaxx: so, if you need sponsorship change it to confirmed and I'll be more than happy to have a look at them
<joejaxx> or is there something else wrong with the merge
<RainCT> :-D
<norsetto> joejaxx: I didn look at the merge at all, if its in progress I understand you are still working on them
<RainCT> joejaxx: it's probably just that norsetto is evil and is setting anything that isn't "confirmed" to "incomplete" :P
 * RainCT hides
<joejaxx> i changed them
<norsetto> joejaxx: thanks, please remember it for the future, otheriwse you risk having them sitting there for ages
<joejaxx> norsetto: ok
<norsetto> joejaxx: for bug 160528, was the ubuntu change not implemented in ubuntu?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160528 in esmtp "[7.10] installing logwatch requires exim4 even though another mta is available with esmtp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160528
<norsetto> joejaxx: even 160258
<norsetto> joejaxx: bug 160258
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160258 in uml-utilities "Please merge uml-utilities 20070815-1 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160258
<joejaxx> norsetto: i am sorry?
<norsetto> joejaxx: the ubuntu change that you are merging, did you check that it was not implemented by debian as well?
<joejaxx> norsetto: whoops
 * joejaxx goes to change :(
<joejaxx> well actually that means a sync if there are no other changes
<ScottK> joejaxx: That's good news.  Syncs are better than merges.
<joejaxx> ScottK: ok
<PriceChild> Trying to get a package building in pbuilder, uses cmake and I'm using cdbs. I pulled cmake.mk from sid's cmake as its not in ubuntu anymore... but anyway things are being annoying with this error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43679/ and of course adding them to debian/rules doesn't fix things. You can even see what should be the correct variables being assigned at the top.
<PriceChild> s/anymore/yet/
<PriceChild> And it sees gcc and g++ before failing later
<PriceChild> gah and I meant sid's cdbs
<RainCT> soren: ping
<norsetto> joejaxx: I also suspect that bug 160257 is a sync, but to be sure I would ask stevenk
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160257 in apt-rpm "Please merge apt-rpm 0.5.15lorg3.2-3 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160257
 * RainCT pings anyone who is involved with ubuntu-dev-toosl
<RainCT> well, on u-d-t, soren Â«* Added missing python-debian dependency (needed by submittodebian)Â». shouldn't this rather be a recommend, like bzr and pbuilder?
<geser> PriceChild: try setting CMAKE_C_COMPILER to the complete path instead of only gcc
<PriceChild> geser, tried...
<geser> and still the same error?
<PriceChild> geser, jdong âsuggested whatever I try in debian/rules wouldn't help as pbuilder would ignore it later
<jdong> maybe rules isn't the right place to put it ;-)
<PriceChild> jdong, :P
<geser> why would pbuilder ignore what you put to debian/rules?
<PriceChild> but its being set earlier itself and all found and everything's fine earlier on in that log.. why's it fail later? :/
<geser> I can only guess but my guess would be that the different checks interpret CMAKE_C_COMPILER differently
<geser> is the whole package visible somewhere?
<PriceChild> geser, http://localhost/new/
<PriceChild> gah
<PriceChild> http://york.pricechild.co.uk/new/
<PriceChild> Assume nothing.... I've probably done something ridiculously wrong :)
<knights> I'm getting 2 new lintian errors on my package now:
<azeem> PriceChild: add "CC=/usr/bin/cc" above the includes in debian/rules
<azeem> same for CXX I guess
<knights> W: xdtv source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<knights> and
<knights> W: xdtv source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 2.4.1cvs3
<knights> outta nowhere :)
<azeem> knights: you're neither mentioned as Maintainer: nor in Uploaders:?
<azeem> and/or use a different name/address in changelog than in control?
<knights> Maintainer and Uploaders is in which file sorry?
<azeem> control
 * norsetto -> prepare and have dinner
<PriceChild> azeem, wahey! :D "CC=/usr/bin/cc" gets rid of C errors... now to just fix CXX
<PriceChild> thanks azeem, jdong, geser
<azeem> I'm not sure whether that's a bug in cdbs or cmake
 * azeem saw this as well
<knights> azeem: I didn't have my comment in control file - e-mail and name was there but all three were present in changelog- could that have been the error?
<knights> I've added my comment to the control file now
<PriceChild> yay and that's CXX ones gone too... what's gonna break next :P
<azeem> knights: what is "your comment"?
<azeem> something like "Foo Bar (knights) <foo@bar>"
<azeem> then yes, that's probably why lintian thinks you want to NMU
<knights> Yes, thats the comment I meant. thanks azeem!
<RainCT> TheMuso: I'll have something to (bzr) merge for you soon :)
<soren> RainCT: I don't quite understand the reasoning behind some of them being recommends and others depends.
<soren> RainCT: I'm not particular about it. If you feel it's more correct to make them recommends, go ahead.
<RainCT> soren: afaik the stuff that isn't required by all scripts should be a recommend (which anyway get installed by default), and only that that is required because else any script would work a depdendency.
<RainCT> soren: I'll try if I find dholbach on IRC and ask him to be sure
<soren> RainCT: But e.g. submittodebian doesn't depend on sudo, python-launchpad-bugs, or binutils..
<RainCT> true, that why I will ask him first
<soren> RainCT: Ok. He should be around soonish.
 * Rospo_Zoppo is going
<RainCT> TheMuso: btw, the guarddog merge builds now
 * RainCT is away for a while
<Zelut> what package is the CD/DVD creator in?
<Nafallo> nautils-cd-burner
<Zelut> thank you
<Nafallo> nautilus-cd-burner even
<somerville32> joejaxx, update the repo stats :P
<joejaxx> lol
<somerville32> I want to see how far I fell behind
<joejaxx> i am going to expand the stats since people have been requesting full stats
<somerville32> bam :]
<somerville32> One of my uploads FTBF on lpia
<bluekuja> joejaxx, would be nice to have sponsorships stats as well
<bluekuja> :)
<somerville32> How would you measure the number of sponsorships?
<bluekuja> checking key signature on the package
<bluekuja> on changes
<joejaxx> bluekuja: you mean when someone sponsors an upload?
<bluekuja> looking at Changed-by: field
<bluekuja> joejaxx, yep
<joejaxx> interesting
<bluekuja> and if the key it's not from a developer
<bluekuja> should be assigned to $developer as sponsored
<bluekuja> like MoM does
<joejaxx> that would stink :\ us non motus would not be up there
<joejaxx> non-motus*
<joejaxx> unless you are talking about a completely different sections on the stats
<joejaxx> section*
<bluekuja> yes, that's what I mean
<joejaxx> an additional section
<joejaxx> oh ok
<bluekuja> additional section
<bluekuja> that would be really cool
<bluekuja> but also pretty hard to implement
<bluekuja> but think about it ;)
<joejaxx> lol key lookups
<joejaxx> i will think about it :D
<bluekuja> :)
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: hiho :D
<hellboy195> bluekuja: hiho :D
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: sry ^^
<bluekuja> heya hellboy195
<bluekuja> is your desktop fine?
<bluekuja> :P
<somerville32> bluekuja, I thought you meant to see how many sponsorships a dev had done
<bluekuja> or still broken?
<bluekuja> somerville32, something like that
<bluekuja> somerville32, when a dev sponsor a package
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: unfortunately not. But I think the only way is to buy a new one. So I think we can continue in the next days/few weeks
<bluekuja> it get added to sponsorship stats page
<bluekuja> as we saod
<bluekuja> *said
<somerville32> bluekuja, I think it would be cool to see how many sponsorships a dev has done but I don't know how you'd measure that.
<bluekuja> hellboy195, don't keep pinging bluefoxicy
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> somerville32, I mean not the *whole* sponsorships
<bluekuja> but just the ones after the script gets installed
<bluekuja> and so on
<hellboy195> bluekuja: shit <tab> key. but you know that I mean you ;)
<bluekuja> yep :)
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: sry again. not for you ;)
<bluekuja> lol
<hellboy195> ^^
<hellboy195> bluekuja: and how are you doing so far?
<bluekuja> hellboy195, was doing exaile update
<bluekuja> had to hack a bit on it due makefile changes
<bluekuja> with the new release
<hellboy195> bluekuja: yeah I read it ;)
<hellboy195> bluefoxicy: and how are you doing with health/school ,.. ^^
<norsetto> bluekuja: did you have health problems!?
<bluekuja> norsetto, yes due to motorbike crash
<hellboy195> I don't hope so :P
<norsetto> bluekuja: ahya
<hellboy195> bluekuja: with you new bike? from the picture?
<bluekuja> hellboy195, nono
<bluekuja> hellboy195, that's the new oe
<bluekuja> *one
<norsetto> bluekuja: nothing serious I hope?
<bluekuja> norsetto, I went to hospital for some days
<bluekuja> but it happened a month ago
<bluekuja> and I still have some problems on the leg :/
<norsetto> bluekuja: sorry to hear that
<bluekuja> well, god helped me ;)
<bluekuja> I was going pretty slow
<bluekuja> so I hadnt great problems
<bluekuja> but anyway I've restarted trainings et all
<norsetto> bluekuja: thats good, sport will help you a lot
<hellboy195> bluekuja: slow down and remain on earth ;)
<bluekuja> bad experience really ;)
<bluekuja> norsetto, yep! that's really important
<bluekuja> norsetto, but anyway I'm feeling pretty good on these latest weeks
<bluekuja> less stressed et all
<bluekuja> stress did its part after the crash
<bluekuja> hellboy195, lol yeah :)
<norsetto> bluekuja: you know, I have had my share of these accidents too ... the difficult part was trying to hide it from my parents .. they were not as bad as yours though
<bluekuja> norsetto, really? motorbike as well?
<norsetto> bluekuja: indeed
<bluekuja> norsetto, unfortunately I couldnt hide it to my parents :/
<norsetto> bluekuja: yes, I can imagine
<bluekuja> it hasnt been nice for them
<norsetto> bluekuja: now you have the good excuse to ask for a car ;-)
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> true, but I'll keep going with motorbikes as well
<bluekuja> a passion is something someone cannot stop
<bluekuja> you know :)
<wraund> GAH
<wraund> /etc/sources.lst is gone
<wraund> what is the new file?
<hellboy195> bluekuja: maye I'll have that one soon http://geizhals.at/eu/a281652.html
<bluekuja> cool
<bluekuja> :)
<norsetto> wraund: /etc/apt/sources.list
<wraund> :D
<wraund> norsetto: cheers
<norsetto> wraund: cheers
<ajmitch> hi
<Kmos> norsetto: hi :)
<norsetto> kmos: hiya
<norsetto> morning ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<TheMuso> norsetto: Is the setting of sponsor requests to confirmed documented? I must admit I haven't checked, but if they are either set to new or conformed, I don't see the point, unless they are set to something else...
<geser> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue, "Notes for Contributors", point 5
<TheMuso> ah ok
<geser> but I see no point to differentiate between New and Confirmed
<Kmos> I think Confirmed must be a MOTU to define it.. New is to show that isn't confirmed by a MOTU yet.
<Kmos> it's more logical
<norsetto> geser: actually new makes more sense to me than what is specified (incomplete)
<norsetto> geser: for syncs that is
<norsetto> theMuso: for merges its also here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<norsetto> TheMuso: and syncs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<RainCT> Kmos: that's for syncs only
<Kmos> RainCT: i think merges, should be only confirmed by a MOTU..
<Kmos> the syncs are new by default :) by requestsync script.. it's an automatic process
<RainCT> Kmos: why? the MOTU is who uploads them, and sets it fix commited
<geser> even if logical, but why should a MOTU set it to Confirmed instead of uploading it?
<Kmos> today norsetto told me that i need to confirm my merge..
<RainCT> Kmos:  with sync's that's different since the motu confirms that it's a good request, and then a archive admin (or whatever they are claled) uploads it
<Kmos> geser: confirm it, to show that the debdiff is fine
<Kmos> fix commited and fix released it's another story
 * Kmos this irc server irc lagging to much :(
<Kmos> *is
<norsetto> What is important for me is that, whatever policy is decided, we should all try to adhere to it, point being to avoid contributors work sitting there for months
<norsetto> if any contributor wants to exercise on an easy patch, bug 155314 its an ideal candidate
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155314 in twinkle "[SRU] Unable to authenticate with SIP server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155314
<bddebian> heya persia
<persia> hi bddebian
<RainCT> how can I get the installed version of a certain package? (a command that outputs just the version)
<somerville32> RainCT, apt-get cache show <package>
<somerville32> If you have the latest package installed, it'll be that version lists there
<RainCT> somerville32: yeh, but I need just to version to be able to process it from a script
<RainCT> it seems dpkg-query can do it with the -f option, but I don't find the exact syntax
<somerville32> dpkg-query --status ?
<Kmos> RainCT: try dak or rmadison
<RainCT> ah ok, got it
<RainCT> dpkg-query -W -f='${Version}' package_name
<RainCT> thanks anyways
<somerville32> :)
<jdong> RainCT: how about apt-cache policy, apt-cache madison
<jdong> RainCT: or dpkg-query for the currently installed one
<jdong> all can be fairly easily matched by regex for program parsing
<somerville32> How do I suppress a lintian error?
<somerville32> err...
<somerville32> warning
<somerville32> Or can I ignore the warning (and it is actually linda)
<pkern> siretart: When reading your mail about SRUs/README.debian-dev I actually thought "wow, you're able to do REJECTs"... ;)
<jdong> somerville32: pbuilder &> /dev/null
<jdong> somerville32: you know what they say....
<jdong> somerville32: outta sight, outta mind ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<jdong> haha
<persia> somerville32: Which linda warning?
<RainCT> somerville32: there's a way to let lintian ignore certain errors by creating a file in debian/, but I'm not sure how
 * RainCT is away
<somerville32> It is okay.
<somerville32> I know I'm smarter than linda
 * somerville32 uploads.
<persia> somerville32: Yes, but which warning: it may be easy to work around
<somerville32> persia, Just that the package is all and I'm install to lib instead of share
<persia> somerville32: That's wrong, and will block sponsoring.  Please install to /usr/share/
<somerville32> persia, I was already told to change it
<somerville32> persia, It is a mono app
<somerville32> ie. I was told to put it in /usr/lib/
<somerville32> persia, If you want me to put it back, I'd be happy to if you promise to review/sponsor <g> ;]
<Jazzva> If I want to request a package sync, do I need to contact the last uploader and check if he's ok with that? (as I would in the case of merging)
<persia> somerville32: by whom, where?  arch:all in /usr/lib just sounds wrong, but it may be special for mono (although this is a waste of archive space, and breaks some installations)
<somerville32> persia, I forget. It was MOTU.
<somerville32> persia, Are you saying my package is a waste of space? ^:/
<persia> Jazzva: A sync is only a special case of a merge where there are no remaining changes.  Everything else is the same.  In the case of a sync, the last uploader is more likely to be happy, so if you don't get them from a quick ping on IRC, it's less to worry about.
<jdong> persia: it seems like all of our mono packages install their assemblies into /usr/lib
<Jazzva> persia: So, it's ok to just post a request?
<persia> somerville32: No, I'm saying that having 8 copies of your binaries in the archive for an arch:all package is a waste of space.
<jdong> persia: I guess it's an exception then
<Jazzva> (I'm didn't really get the last part of the sentence ("so if you don't..."))
<persia> Jazzva: Something like "I'm looking at the frotz merge, and think it's a sync.  Jazzava: any thoughts before I submit the request?"
<Jazzva> I'm=I
<somerville32> persia, I'm compiling a windows binary. Doesn't it need to be compiled on each arch?
<Jazzva> persia: Ok, I get it... thanks :)
<persia> jdong: Really?  That's just odd.
 * persia looks for mono packaging policy and someone to listen to whining
<jdong> persia: yeah, it is kinda weird
<jdong> persia: well it doesn't feel right to put .dll's in /usr/share, does it?
<persia> somerville32: Never mind.  Please ignore linda, but don't suppress her for this: it sounds like a larger issue.
<jdong> persia: I guess Java puts jars in /usr/share....
<norsetto> persia: I used this when I packaged mono: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/index.html
<persia> jdong: Right.  This means I can have a common /usr/share network mounted for a large multiplatform installation (which saves disk space)
<jdong> persia: plus, it's not like Python doesn't put arch-indep stuff into /usr/lib either...
<persia> norsetto: Thanks.
<persia> jdong: Doesn't it?  I thought python put .py files in /usr/share, and .pyc in /usr/lib, and further thought that .pyc files were host-specific.
<ajmitch> jdong: of course, a number of .dlls are arch-specific
<jdong> persia: never mind, I haven't looked closely since pycentral
<jdong> ajmitch: true
<ajmitch> they used to be in /usr/share/dotnet
 * persia doesn't understand how a package can be "arch:all", and yet have architecture-specific objects in /usr/lib
<jdong> persia: not all mono stuff is arch:all though
<persia> somerville32: Where did you put the package?
<somerville32> persia, revu
<Kmos>    -> Trying gtkglarea5-dev
<Kmos>        -> Cannot install gtkglarea5-dev; apt errors follow:
<Kmos> The following packages have unmet dependencies: gtkglarea5-dev: Depends: libgtk1.2-dev but it is not going to be installed
<Kmos> in hardy pbuilder..
<persia> somerville32: My apologies: you seem to have fallen into an odd exception where your package is really arch:all, but you can't treat it as arch:all, because it relies on systems that might not be, whilst still pretending to be architecture independent
<somerville32> persia, Should I put it as any?
<RainCT> persia, somerville32: iirc the mono executables should go to /usr/lib
<somerville32> Anyhows, the package is on revu ready for review/upload :)
 * ajmitch wonders what 'the package' is
<RainCT> u can have a look at gbrainy (debian unstable) for example (that's mine :D)
<RainCT> that's the policy http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<RainCT> Â«3.1.2 File Locations   The package's applications, libraries and meta-data must be installed into /usr/lib/packagename. Â»
<persia> ajmitch: youtranslate
<persia> somerville32: No, it belongs in /usr/lib apparently.  I'm not entirely happy with that, but there are good, if annoying, reasons for it to be true.
<somerville32> persia, Alrighty. Would you be willing to sponsor? :]
<persia> somerville32: If you give me a bug with an interdiff :)  But not now, as I am running short on time.  I missed notecase ~10 hours ago though: I thought you were going to request upload for that.
<somerville32> persia, I did. It is on revu.
<ajmitch> so it's just an update to an existing package?
<somerville32> ajmitch, New upstream
<ajmitch> somerville32: why the gtk-sharp build-dep?
<somerville32> ajmitch, Because it requires it?
<ajmitch> no, why does it require it?
<somerville32> ajmitch, I dunno. Ask the package. It complained when it didn't have it
<ajmitch> considering that you've *also* got libglade2.0-cil, libgtk2.0-cil
<ajmitch> 2 quite different build dependencies
<somerville32> Why is that?
<somerville32> I mean, I used the old debian directory
<ajmitch> because gtk-sharp is the old, obsolete implementation
<somerville32> It complained when I built it
<somerville32> so I added it
<somerville32> And it takes me like ~30 mins or more to build that packages (I have a 333mhz) so I can't really play around with the build-deps too much
<geser> Kmos: gtk+1.2 waits for getting build with libglib1.2ldbl in hardy so it installable again
<Kmos> geser: ok.. thx
<Kmos> i was checking xt package, but it don't need to be merged..
<g2g591> would anyone online care to take a look at my package of the new upstream version of tight vnc (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468)
<ajmitch> somerville32: looks like upstream is just using stupid broken makefiles
 * somerville32 phews
<ajmitch> checking for the wrong thing with pkg-config
<somerville32> so I'm safe?
<ajmitch> it should be gtk-sharp-2.0 & glade-sharp-2.0 in there, and gtk-sharp should be dropped from build deps
<somerville32> so it is safe to change?
<ajmitch> try it & see ;)
<somerville32> Do I get rid of the other gtk stuff?
<ajmitch> what other gtk stuff do you mean?
 * ajmitch is also curious about debian/etc/youtranslate
<RainCT> TheMuso: can you merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk please?
<RainCT> TheMuso: changes are: * Change the character encoding on all Python scripts to UTF-8     * submittodebian: better changelog location detection     * submittodebian: user-friendly error if python-debian isn't installed      * hugdaylist: improve error handling (less backtraces, more nice messages)     * pbuilder-dist: look for global variable $PBUILDFOLDER (LP: #160769)     * pbuilder-dist: check pbuilder version and only use --components if suppor
<somerville32> ajmitch, It is a wrapper
<ajmitch> yes, I know it's a wrapper
<somerville32> So what are you curious about? :P
<ajmitch> why you renamed it to debian/etc/youtranslate?
<somerville32> ajmitch, Because it was called wrapper before
<ajmitch> and...?
<g2g591> would anyone online care to take a look at my package of the new upstream version of tight vnc (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468) its a jump from 1.2.9 (in archives and debian) to 1.3.9
<somerville32> I wanted to call it youtranslate
<somerville32> but it was removed when building the source
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> it's just a strange change to make when doing an upstream update
<somerville32> ajmitch, Just making things neat?
 * ajmitch gives up & goes back to useful work
<somerville32> ajmitch, Don't give up. I'm trying to learn :P
 * somerville32 smacks ajmitch with a fish.
<ajmitch> this is why I don't review
<LaserJock> somerville32: minimize delta
<somerville32> Okay.
<LaserJock> somerville32: if you want to make changes try to do the least in Ubuntu and as much as possible upstream
<ajmitch> this looks to only be in ubuntu anyway
<LaserJock> ah, well that's the first problem ;-)
<TheMuso> RainCT: Ok will do.
<RainCT> TheMuso: thanks :)
<Kmos> norsetto: after pending, ddclient bug report can be set to fix released ?
<Kmos> it's already published
<g2g591> how come it seems everytime I ask for help or my package looked at, I get ignored and someone else gets helped
<norsetto> kmos: wait until it builds, then set it fix-released
<victor__> g2g591: because life is unfair? :)
<g2g591> I know, but I've tried to get my package checked out for a couple weeks and no one responds
<Kmos> norsetto: ok =) thx
<ScottK> g2g591: Package review for Hardy is just really getting started this week, so you're odds should improve.
<g2g591> well, personally I hope it makes it to Gutsy backports, tightvnc 1.3.9 is a large jump from the version in the archives (1.2.8) it even supports a whole new version of the protocal and has been out a long time
<TheMuso> Hmm. I think its time we uploaded a new ubuntu-dev-tools. Doing that now.
<g2g591> when someone has a chance, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468
<LaserJock> g2g591: generally you shouldn't mess with debian/copyright
<g2g591> Laserjock:well should I change it back to saying it was debianized by the other person who did the previous version?
<LaserJock> g2g591: and it might be a good idea to work with the Debian maintainer on getting that going
<LaserJock> g2g591: yes
<imbrandon> g2g591, yes, debianization is the original packing , not revisions
<LaserJock> there is a debian bug about updating: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=434240
<ubotu> Debian bug 434240 in tightvncserver "tightvncserver: new version is available" [Wishlist,Open]
<LaserJock> and the maintainer said he's working on it (in July) but it would take some time because so much has changed
<LaserJock> I tend to think that for something like that we need to stick closely to Debian
<g2g591> imbrandon: ok, I didn't know that and it isn't exactly documented very much
<g2g591> laserjock:well, it seemed to work with just copy and pasting the debian/ of the previous version and the test debs of the viewer work fine for me
<RainCT> TheMuso: I think it would be good to backport it to gutsy too
 * norsetto -> bed
<TheMuso> RainCT: Well let me get it into hardy first.
<RainCT> TheMuso: of course. will you backport then or does it require a bug report?
<RainCT> norsetto: good night
<LaserJock> g2g591: ok so maybe the best course of action is to email the maintainer, Ola Lundqvist, and see where he is at with packaging it and maybe send him a debdiff
<norsetto> RainCT: I was going to say llet for bed ... luckily I didn't ....
<norsetto> RainCT: how do you say bed?
<somerville32> ajmitch, I'm fixing 'er up for toi.
<RainCT> norsetto: in Catalan?
<RainCT> or what do you mean?
<norsetto> rainct: he, what else?
<RainCT> norsetto: dunno :P.   llit
<norsetto> rainCT: ah, a little vowel and everything changes ....
 * norsetto -> llit
<RainCT> hehe. llet is milk
 * RainCT is going to bed too
<LaserJock> well, milk does make you sleepy
<LaserJock> :-)
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> Good night all :)
<huats_> TheMuso: Hey
<TheMuso> Hey huats_.
<huats_> I have resubmitted the merge that I mess since 2 nights....
<huats_> so consider it once you have time.... because you know that I might have done something wrong...
<huats_> I really hope I haven't.... but who knows... well you'll find :)
<huats_> (it is the dbmail one)
 * LaserJock grumbles about silly proprietary Multiverse packages  not being worth the money
<huats_> TheMuso: if you find anything on it, you can directly told me about it here...
<TheMuso> huats_: I will get to it in a bit, and who knows? YOu may have it right this time.
<huats_> TheMuso: don't be too optimistic....
<huats_> :)
<TheMuso> huats_: Ok, looking now.
<huats_> TheMuso: I am closely listening :)
<TheMuso> huats_: Ok, test building...
<huats_> ohoh
<huats_> that is a step further than before right ?
<Lutin> fernando: ping ?
 * somerville32 cries.
<TheMuso> huats_: It built, now I am test installing the packages
<huats_> ok
<somerville32> Who was the person who said I could build on their machine?
<huats_> TheMuso: it is at least a tep further than before right ?
<TheMuso> huats_: Yes, and its actually gone so far as being uploaded at this minute.
<TheMuso> huats_: Now I would suggest trying to get those changes into Debian.
<huats_> TheMuso: great !
<huats_> TheMuso: that was my idea... I'll send it tomorrow (it is past midnight here in France)
<TheMuso> huats_: Ok no problem
<huats_> TheMuso: once again thanks for your patience...
<TheMuso> huats_: You're welcome, and it was no problem.
<TheMuso> huats_: I was in the same position as you are now at one point.
<huats_> TheMuso: I mean, it is important to hear some grief, but also the counter part exists...
<TheMuso> huats_: I udnerstand.
<g2g591> laserjock:Care to take a look at the new version? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=597
<huats_> Ok I have to go to bed
<huats_> good night/day all
<huats_> see you tomorrow morning
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-08
<crimsun> does anyone actively use LLVM? (http://llvm.org)
<crimsun> I need it for work, so I'm going to be updating to 2.1 and pushing to Debian
<RAOF> What do you mean by actuvily?
<crimsun> RAOF: meaning "I need this software updated, or my life at work will be miserable" :)
<RAOF> Hah, no.
<RAOF> Although I'm interested in it for two reasons: pypy & gallium.
<crimsun> understandably so
<crimsun> I'll be going with the gcc4.0 portion instead of gcc4.2, but I'm happy to coordinate packaging both if people seem to want both (?)
<RAOF> I think I may want to start adding the nouveau 3d stuff to my ppa soonish, so a version that works with the gallium stuff would be good :).
<pwnguin> RAOF: is the exa stuff making progress upstream?
<RAOF> pwnguin: For nouveau?
<pwnguin> yes
<RAOF> From what I gather, it pretty much works on everything != nv30 atm.
<RAOF> And by "works" I mean, "is fast on Xservers >= 1.4"
<pwnguin> and for nv30?
<RAOF> I'm not sure.  It was broken at some point because they didn't do the T&L init properly (and EXA is using the 3d engine).
<pwnguin> last i knew, they wanted to hold off on xrandr improvements until exa was better
<RAOF> I don't know if that's fixed yet.
<ajmitch> exa is definitely getting better
<RAOF> Ah.  EXA may well be in a state that's amenable to accelerating xrandr now.
<ajmitch> that's mostly what they've been working on lately, it seems
<ajmitch> of course there's been some experiments with gallium & ttm stuff
<RAOF> For values of "they" in {Xorg, nouveau}, it seems.
<RAOF> It looks like nouveau may be approaching the point where people start to really work on gallium stuff
<ajmitch> & hopefully some ttm stuff soon in a branch, for texturing support :)
<davebags> hey guys
<_16aR_> Hello
<_16aR_> Anyone has tried apturl on PPAs ?
<bmk789> is ubuntu planning a port to PS3?
<Fujitsu> bmk789: There are Gutsy ISOs.
<bmk789> really?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Nafallo> I think there where feisty isos as well, no?
<Fujitsu> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/7.10/release/
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Quite possibly.
<bmk789> Fujitsu: thanks
<joejaxx> not the netsplits again :(
 * somerville32 dances.
 * somerville32 sings "It is raining servers!"
<Fujitsu> bigon: That is broken versioning in -proposed.
<Fujitsu> How annoying.
<bigon> Fujitsu: yea I realised that :/
 * Fujitsu people would conform to the SRU procedures and versioning.
<Fujitsu> +wishes
<persia> Fujitsu: For the latter, it may help to provide explicit guidance on versioning in the procedural documentation.  For the latter, it is perhaps more difficult.
<Fujitsu> -0ubuntu1 is clearly wrong.
<Fujitsu> It fails part 2.3, and common sense.
<persia> Fujitsu: I agree it fails common sense, but I could construct a case for a hypothetical package in which it would meet 2.3.
<persia> (although I would doubt a new upstream was ever a good SRU candidate anyway)
<joejaxx> grr blasted lpia FTBS
<Fujitsu> persia: We clearly want 2.20.1 in Hardy at some point, and the proper Hardy versioning would be -0ubuntu1.
<Fujitsu> persia: GNOME 2.20.1 has a blanket exception.
<Fujitsu> The first point release usually does.
<bigon> packages are not checked by archive admin before being published in -proposed?
<Fujitsu> bigon: I thought they were, but apparently not.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Yes.  That's completely broken right now, although I suspect we are really targeted 2.22 for hardy, which means it won't matter later.
<persia> bigon: Checked, but people are busy.
<Fujitsu> That does, however, seem to be the standard for GNOME.
<Fujitsu> But that is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong.
<bigon> it was why I asked about migration,  this package should be directly migrated to hardy
<persia> bigon: If it were before, yes.  Migrating now is trickier, as it requires manual adjustments on the servers, and the status is tracked badly.
<Fujitsu> You might be able to convince an archive admin to do it (heck, seb128 is an archive admin and he uploaded some of the stuff with bogus versioning).
<blueyed> Fujitsu: what would the correct version have been? 2.20.1-0ubuntu0.1?
<persia> blueyed: That would have been preferable.
<Fujitsu> blueyed: Yes.
<Fujitsu> Also, I'm sure that SRUs are meant to be in the development release first, unless it isn't open yet.
<Fujitsu> And those didn't look like particularly critical updates.
<Fujitsu> But if archive admins don't follow procedure, I guess we can't expect others to.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, it just means we need to complain to the archive admins, much as we'd complain to anyone else.
<bigon> about SRU version what's better? 0.4.3-1ubuntu2.1 or 0.4.3-1ubuntu3~gutsy1 ?
<persia> bigon: I like 0.4.3-1ubuntu2.1
<persia> (both are policy-compliant)
<Fujitsu> ~gutsy1 is for backports, not SRUs.
<bigon> oh ok
<Fujitsu> The normal SRU versioning is .1, or .7.10 (or appropriate release)
 * persia agrees with Fujitsu, and notes that the documentation on this matter is notoriously poor
<Fujitsu> I thought it was resolved a year ago that said documentation was to be improved, but apparently not.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, it was resolved a year ago that said documentation was to be improved, but there was neither assignment nor volunteers.
<ScottK> persia: I was responding to your earlier ping about overlap between our MOTU meeting topics.
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Yes.  I'm very tempted to agree with you about new packages.  Would you be willing to rebut me on new versions in a first discussion, and then we'll hiit new packages in a second?
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Fujitsu> ScottK: What do you think about new packages?
<Fujitsu> Morning Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu
<persia> Fujitsu: MOTU Meeting agenda may help create context in case ScottK still has 12-hour lag.
<Fujitsu> persia: Thanks.
 * ajmitch looks at agenda
<ScottK> persia: I've got sending details on my proposal to the MOTU ML tonight or tomorrow.  I'll try and incorporate what you're propsing.
<ScottK> As I understand it anyway.
<ajmitch> ScottK: what's a 1-line summary of what you're proposing?
<persia> ScottK: OK.  Just to clarify, I'd like to separate "new version" from "new package", and use REVU for "new package" and LP for "new revision".  I have other thoughts on how these should be reviewed, but they may be separate to that central dichotomy.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Quit trying to status new package reviews in two places.  LP for needs packaging/assignement/fix released with a link to revu and revu comments in between
<ScottK> persia: I'm going to have to disagree with you on that as I find REVU useful for new version too, but definitely agree that the diff of the Debian dir is quite needed.
 * persia agrees with ScottK that the current state is broken and likely to create duplicate work or conflicting information to contributors
<ajmitch> alright, I wasn't aware that people were using LP much for tracking the status
<ScottK> ajmitch: Some are and some aren't and that's part of the problem.
<ajmitch> I thought that the general practice was following what you are proposing
 * Fujitsu thinks that an interdiff of the .diff.gz should be all that is needed for new upstream versions, soon.
<persia> ScottK: Not just the debian dir: I want a full diff of everything in diff.gz.  Anyway, I'm happy to debate LP vs. REVU at the appropriate time, I just want to separate the concerns, as I think that new package issues are sufficiently different from new version issues to warrant separate discussions.
<ScottK> ajmitch: It is what has been agreed at a MOTU meeting.  Some people (dholbach in particular) have pushed the current practice well beyond what the community has ever agreed to.
<ScottK> persia: Fair enough.
<persia> Fujitsu: Actually, I'd really like something better than interdiff, which gets annoying when the diff.gz files are in different orders, but basically, yes.
<ajmitch> probably because he didn't want processes to stagnate, and was trying to find new ways of managing it
 * ScottK find process churn to be a problem and would like to avoid semi-random process changes.
<persia> ajmitch: I'd agree with that, and believe that the current state comes from the best of intentions, but it's likely time to review, and either choose a more modern method, or go back to the old way, rather than maintaining both processes.
<ScottK> I think moving from the wiki to LP for needs-packaging was a good move.  It was the unagreed churn after that I find problematic.
 * persia notes that the parallel processes have been maintained since late feisty
<ScottK> And been problematic since then too.
<persia> ScottK: did we have conflicts in feisty?  I thought that the parallel model worked fairly well when first testing the new process, it was only after it became normal without the old becoming deprecated that we hit a wall.
<ScottK> persia: I've never liked the double book keeping approach and it was never agreed to.  It just happened.
<ScottK> When I pinned dholbach down on this point at UDS he described it as a logical consuequence of the move to needs-packaging bugs and so no agreement to change the process was needed.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  I see your point there.  I still think there needs to be opportunity for experimentation with process alterations, to provide a basis of discussion, but I agree that regularisation of double-entry is not ideal: if the new process is better, we should use it.  If not, we should drop it.  If not there yet, we should adjust it.
<ScottK> Right, but there continue to be process 'experiments' that get documented in the wiki in ways that make it not at all clear it's an experiment.
<ScottK> New package reviews in bzr was one of those late Gutsy until I pushed back on that.
<persia> ScottK: That's true, and a different problem.
<ScottK> I agree with process experimentation if and only if it's clear what's experiment and what's not.
<ScottK> So I don't think it's at all different.
<ajmitch> agreed, I like having new processes if they'll make life easier
<ajmitch> but confusing people with multiple ways to do things doesn't make it easier
<ScottK> Yes.  Experimentation is fine, but a short experiment followed by mail to MOTU ML, and then a few days later, "No one objected so here's how we do it now..." is not fine.
<ScottK> Confusing old people coming back is not good either.
<ScottK> As siretart pointed out at UDS, we really need a process changelog people coming back can review.
<persia> ScottK: I see several different issues: 1) The process shouldn't change without discussion, 2) experimental and test processes should be clearly marked as such, 3) experimental processes should be adopted wholly or stopped after the testing period: we should not support dual processes, 4) current processes should be documented somewhere for clear reference to all parties.
<ScottK> I don't think anyone disagrees with these points as stated, the just aren't followed by some.
<persia> I don't see how these are related, except that they are about processes.  Because all of these issues exist, things get awkward.  I think we've an hours worth for the 9th, but perhaps we could have a meta-process agenda item for the 23rd?
<ajmitch> ScottK: ubuntu-devel-announce should be used for that, I think
<ajmitch> it's not used often enough
 * persia agrees with ajmitch about process changelog
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
<ScottK> persia: I'd like to nail down the specifics we have for the next meeting and not defer them, but sure.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Yes.  it's precisely because I believe the new package / new upstream issue is more important than meta-process that I suggest meta-process be handled on the 23rd.  We need to fix the other now, as it's already annoying Contributors and slowing reviews.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> persia: If we could add debian dir diff and .diff.gz diff to REVU would you consider that an appropriate place for new upstream versions?
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I think debian dir diff is dangerous because someone might not check for other files in diff.gz.  I also think that once we've accepted a package, we need more agressive cryptographical checks to make sure we're shipping the right thing.  I'm still preparing the list for the 9th, so I'm not really prepared to debate that now.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: New upstream versions are closer to normal sponsoring jobs - the process should be similar to them, not NEW packages.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's the other point.
<persia> Anyway: this is on the agenda for the meeting: let's wait until everyone is together to discuss specifics.
<ScottK> Except you need to download the entire pacakge.
<Fujitsu> When the vast majority of packages have sane watch files in the near future, it should be easier.
<ScottK> OK.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Why?
<persia> ScottK: If you don't do that anyway, you aren't checking the cryptography properly.
<Fujitsu> Exactly.
<ScottK> Yes, you need to download it, so LP doesn't give you a good place to do that from.
<Fujitsu> If I sponsor an upstream version, I check the upstream site anyway, to see that it's the really the right tarball.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Downloading from LP would be even *more* broken.  You need to download from upstream.
<ScottK> So the packager provides a diff.gz and a .dsc and you get the tarball yourself?
<persia> ScottK: No, I just want the interdiff.  I can apply that to the current diff.gz to make a candidate diff.gz, download upstream with the watch file or get-orig-source, and make my own .dsc.
<ScottK> I see.
<Fujitsu> That means you are guaranteed to get a real upstream tarball, can more easily review the changes, and not upload a lot of big attachments to LP.
<persia> Plus, it enforces that all Ubuntu-local new upstreams have get-orig-source or watch files so we can more easily maintain them in the future.
<ajmitch> ScottK: of course the suggested way is often to rm the supplied tarball & grab upstream's
<Fujitsu> persia: That too.
<Fujitsu> And with the Debian mass-filing yesterday...
<persia> Fujitsu: Now we just need to get "should" changed to "must" for get-orig-source, and everything is golden :)
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<bddebian> pfft ;-P
<ScottK> persia: You mean must for repacked tarballs?
<persia> ScottK: It's already "should" for all packages in Debian: I don't see why it shouldn't become "must".  Writing get-orig-source to call uscan is trivial.
<ScottK> persia: Where is get-orig-source a should for non-repacked tarballs in Debian policy?
<persia> ScottK: Of course, I don't expect that to happen for a couple years, and don't see the point of imposing it in Ubuntu early: at this point I'd like "must" for repacks, and "should" for thers.
 * ScottK doesn't see the point if you have a watch file.
<persia> interface standardisation, but I agree it's not very important.
<Fujitsu> Are we all agreed that a debian/watch is a "must" for REVU?
<persia> Fujitsu: That's also for discussion on the 9th, but I'm a fan
 * ScottK agrees it's a good idea and someone should propose it at a MOTU meeting so we can agree to the process change.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It's there.
<ScottK> Perfect
 * ajmitch wonders if it should be made a lintian error on REVU
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That's a good idea.
<persia> ScottK: You're correct.  I must have been looking at a draft or proposal.  Currently, 4.9 only says "This target is optional, but providing it if possible is a good idea."
<ScottK> ajmitch: Sounds like a good idea.
<bddebian> Watch files are NOT possible for every application.  I have like 50% of the packages on the games team that are virtually impossible to create watch files for
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Why would such a high number be impossible?
<persia> bddebian: Really?  Is this because upstream doesn't act sane, or is there something else happening?
<ScottK> bddebian: OK.  Required unless proven not feasible.
<bddebian> Either upstream is gone (can't find the tarballs at all) or the upstream naming is such that it cannot be done
<ajmitch> persia: I doubt that many games have sane upstreams
 * persia is worried about maintainability of Ubuntu-local packages without automated mechanisms to track new upstreams
<ajmitch> bddebian: of course your packages would sneak in the back door via a debian sync :)
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  Yes, I should have said "dead or insane".  Games are extra hard.  Happy Penguin should organise a general upstream repository.
<persia> ajmitch: Doesn't help with the recent mass-bug filed.
<chillywilly> hmmm, terminal fonts are all fubar after the dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> persia: of course not
<chillywilly> that's not cool :-/
<Fujitsu> I believe said bug-filing will be a regular occurence, too :)
<bddebian> persia: I think we should just lynch all the damn upstream devs.  It's crazy :)
<persia> bddebian: Nah: lynching makes them not produce more games.  They just need someone to be "official, sane upstream" to whom they can send their files when they want them distributed.
<bddebian> Honestly most of them are just stupid anyway :)
<ajmitch> then enlighten them
<bddebian> I mean the games themselves are weak :-(
<ajmitch> why do you package them then?
<bddebian> Honestly I'm not even sure why we have packaged some of them
<ajmitch> fame & glory?
<bddebian> I don't ;-)
<ajmitch> the respect of debian people? :)
<bddebian> I am just trying to help fix the crap already there :-)
<bddebian> Oh yeah, that's it ;)
<bddebian> There are a few exceptions
 * Fujitsu wonders why Debian likes PHP so much.
<bddebian> Bos Wars is well done
<bddebian> ASC 2.0.1.0 looks nice (I'm working on that now)
<white> Fujitsu: good question
 * bddebian talks shit as he fires up The Witcher again..
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<ajmitch> fun, isn't it?
<joejaxx> these netsplits are getting ridiculous
<Fujitsu> slangasek: I wondered who was going to attack me about it.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Lessee...
<Fujitsu> DEHS is written in it.
<Fujitsu> debcheck's frontend is too...
<slangasek> "debcheck's frontend"?
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Yes, the debcheck web frontend.
<somerville32> Hi
<Hobbsee> there we are...
<Fujitsu> But for how long...
<persia> Fujitsu: More explicity, I don't entirely understand what you are seeking.  PATCHES seems to have a list of variation, against which one could compare things.  On the other hand, if you want to differentiate "updated" from "pending" merges, you'll either need access to the internals, or to maintain your own gutsy/hardy Sources.gz as a reference.
<StevenK> And if nickserv will answer
<Fujitsu> persia: What I really want is a list of packages that are deemed to be `local', as represented in the MoM stats.
<Hobbsee> it will - slowly
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I can imagine it might be a bit flooded.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I believe that is just the list of packages that are present in local Sources.gz and not in sid Sources.gz, but I suspect there is a blacklist involved as well.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, it has about 70 fewer packages than mine. I'll see what happens if I also exclude the blacklist..
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I see now.  Where's the MoM blacklist?
<slangasek> Fujitsu: so anyway, I have to disagree with your conclusion that "Debian" likes PHP.  There are some people peripherally involved in Debian who seem to like prototyping in PHP, and sadly qa.debian.org seems to be pretty heavy on PHP, but I believe that Debian developers as a whole (taking myself as a representative sample) have a healthy dislike for PHP. :)
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Well, QA people like PHP. There we go.
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<persia> Err..  Rather Debian QA websites appear to be typically implemented in PHP.  They may hate it, but that doesn't force things.
<Fujitsu> persia: If they hate it, why would they right their tools in it?
<Fujitsu> *write, gah.
<persia> Fujitsu: That may be the best of the environments available on servers that the authors don't control, where the administrators haven't deployed something else yet (although I'd expect most to be running etch by now: they  may not have been when the tools were developed)
<persia> I could even believe that some of the tools were first deployed onto Woody servers, which makes PHP a less surprising choice
<Fujitsu> I guess so.
<ScottK> persia: I've been considering your new upstream sponsorship proposal.  I've a counter proposal.  First we need to agree and document a Best Current Practice for MOTUs reviewing and sponsoring new upstream versions.  From that I think how to submit them and what to submit will be obvious.
<persia> ScottK: That sounds good.  Do you think we can do that in a meeting, or do you want to first collaborate on a proposal?
<ScottK> I think the conversation on IRC was a good start.  I think document that and you're 90% there.
<ScottK> If you can put that together, maybe we can agree in the meeting.
<persia> ScottK: In that case, I'll outline things a bit more (as it's quiet), let you object, and propose it at the meeting.
<persia> New Upstreams:
<persia> Reviewer should be reviewing the work done by the packager: if good, the package should be prepared for upload to meet cryptographic requirements.
<persia> This means that the reviewer needs to look at the difference in packaging (interdiff of diff.gz) to make sure the right things are being done, and then use the provided watch file or get-orig-source to prepare a candidate package.
<persia> The candidate package should be reviewed to see if there are other bugs that can be usefully closed, or other adjustments deemed wise, these applied, and uploaded.
<persia> New Packages:
<persia> Reviewer should be reviewing both the work done by the packager and the applicability of the proposed package for Ubuntu.  The packaging should meet all automatic tests, follow documented policy, and provide a get-orig-source rule or watch file to ease future team maintenance of updated packages.
<persia> The package should integrate well with an Ubuntu system, and not directly conflict with anything in main unless there is an associated spec for a future transition.
<persia> Each candidate should be approved by two members of ubuntu-dev for correctness and suitability, after which it may be uploaded.
<persia> ---
<minghua> What does "directly conflict" mean there?
<persia> Aside from that, it's just implementation details
<ajmitch> persia: would you require approval by 2 ubuntu-dev members for all packages, or just those by non-MOTUs?
<Fujitsu> I think that `should meet all automatic tests' should probably be clarified - I presume it means lintian/linda?
<persia> minghua: Something like the Y Window system, unless there is a strong compellling reason.
<Fujitsu> Yay!
 * ajmitch kicks freenode
<persia> ajmitch: I say 2, but if the packager is one, that only requires one more.  I'm not perfect, and I don't expect you to be.
<minghua> persia: But what if X Window and Y Window can be installed in parallel?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, it all needs a little more clarification, but that's the base of what I was thinking: perhaps also piuparts.
<persia> minghua: They can't (or couldn't last I looked), but it they could, it wouldn't be a conflict.
<minghua> persia: Basically I am asking if it's "conflict of interest" or "Conflict in dpkg-sense"
<persia> minghua: Conflict in dpkg-sense
<Fujitsu> I think those guidelines look pretty good.
<minghua> Right.  (BTW I didn't know Y Window System is a real-world example...)
<persia> minghua: It's a local-frame-buffer windowing system for posix compliant systems, but it's not call-compatible to X.
<persia> (and I think upstream is losing interest, or has already done so, due to newer, faster, X)
 * ajmitch isn't entirely happy with requiring 2 ACKs for everything yet again - it will get ignored quite often
<persia> ajmitch: We require 2 ACKs now: that won't be a change.
<minghua> persia: Thanks.  Don't let me sidetrack you though. :-)
<ajmitch> persia: we did change it so that MOTUs weren't *required* to get the additional review, I believe
<ajmitch> though it was still encouraged
<persia> ajmitch: Given that I've never advocated another MOTUs package on first review, I don't find that encouraging.
<ajmitch> at which point does it become ignorable? when you're hired by canonical? :)
<minghua> persia: An extra ACK for MOTU's new package upload is probably better left as a soft requirement.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I think we changed it from MOTU needs to acks to MOTU counts as one of the acks.
<persia> minghua: I'll defer to current policy regarding the number of ACKs, but I think it's 2,
<ajmitch> ScottK: it was always a MOTU counting as an ACK before that
<ScottK> This is for new packages.  For new upstreams, it's only one.
<persia> ScottK: That's my memory: it used to be three people, and now it's down to two.
<persia> ScottK: For new upstreams, MOTU needs an ACK?  I've just uploaded the one I did.  Was that wrong?
<minghua> Basically I don't think it's enforceable, and it's always bad to have unenforceable policies.
<ScottK> persia: No that's right.
<ScottK> persia: For new upstream MOTU can be the one.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Originating MOTU as ACK.
<ajmitch> minghua: it's certainly not enforceable, most of core-dev would ignore it, I'd say
<minghua> ajmitch: Yeah, I'm with you on this.  (Not that my opinion matters much, though.)
 * Fujitsu admits to having ignored the rule once, though it was just a rename.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I've seen Riddell upload new packages for review.
<ajmitch> (my opinion isn't worth anything either)
<persia> ajmitch: Maybe: we can encourage them to look at each other's packages, and to let us look at their packages: for a good package (even one that needs a little work), the total cycle is usually less than an hour.
<ajmitch> ScottK: he'd be one of the few then
<ScottK> The ironic thing is I found a licensing/copyright problem in it.
<persia> That's actually the reason I favor reviews.  The people who do lots & lots of reviews get pretty good at looking for things.  Most developers couldn't care less about many of the issues.
<ScottK> StevenK: Any idea how long one has to generally wait for an AM to be assigned these days?
<ajmitch> probably several weeks
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Mine was 3 months, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, about that.
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * ScottK got advocated today, so waiting for AM now.
 * persia continues to find NM sufficiently painful to be avoided
<ajmitch> given the length of the list of unassigned applicants, it could take awhile
<ajmitch> jcastro! dude!
<Fujitsu> Oh joy, of the 149 Ubuntu-specific packages that actually have watch files, 59 of them don't work at all.
<ajmitch> only 59?
<ajmitch> that's pretty good
 * persia grumbles at reviewers who don't test watch files
<Fujitsu> persia: These could well be old stuff synced from the middle of nowhere.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  True.
<ajmitch> sorry persia, we're not all wonderful at reviewing like some
<persia> ajmitch: Huh?  I'm not a very good reviewer: I just run uscan, linda, lintian, and have 4 or 5 manual checks.
<ajmitch> if I review, I'll get grumbled at, I'm sure
<persia> ajmitch: Actually, while I grumble at people in general, I'm always happy when people review: there's never enough people to just take a look at the packages, and give the packagers a little feedback.
 * somerville32 has learnt a lot from persia 
 * ajmitch heads out
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-03
<Elbrus> Laney: the page say: (last edited 06.08.2008 11:00:40 by localhost)
<Elbrus> is that when you mark the minor changes box?
<pangloss> Laney, the same guide is located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Laney> Elbrus: No, the page is a bunch of includes and I edited one of those, that's probably why
<pangloss> down in the Updating a package  recipe
<Elbrus> ah.
<pangloss> Laney, so idk, if you have to change both of them
<Laney> pangloss: Not that one, but there are other calls too
<pangloss> o ok
<crimsun> jdong: RE your pa_tls_set() error, which version were you using?
<gouki> How do I tell pbuilder to use the ubuntu name scheme for building packages? If it's even that way.
<Hobbsee> er...ubuntu naming scheme for building packages?
<ajmitch> gouki: what do you mean?
<gouki> Hobbsee, yes.
<gouki> I mean ..
<Hobbsee> which is?
<nhandler> gouki: The package will get built with the correct name if the version in debian/changelog is correct
<gouki> When I launch pbuilder create *.dsc, it creates the package with the following name: hydra_5.4-1_i386.deb
<ajmitch> as nhandler says, the version number is controlled by debian/changelog
<ajmitch> as is the distribution that the upload is targetting
<nhandler> gouki: What version do you have in debian/changelog?
<ajmitch> you will need to rebuild the source package to regenerate the .dsc file that pbuilder looks at
<gouki> 5.4-1, nhandler
<gouki> ajmitch, but I was under the impression that the name contained 'ubuntu'.
<nhandler> gouki: The version should be 5.4-1ubuntu1
<gouki> nhandler, and that is changed on the changelog?
<ajmitch> pbuilder doesn't change versions at all
<gouki> ajmitch, I see. I didn't thought about changing it on changelog :S
<nhandler> gouki: If you use 'dch -i' it will take care of creating a new changelog entry for you with the correct version
<gouki> nhandler, ok! I'll try that.
<gouki> Thank you all!
<nhandler> You are welcome gouki
<gouki> Ohh, got it.
<Hobbsee> nhandler: well, it's almost always correct.  Sometimes it isn't.
<nhandler> Very true Hobbsee
<gouki> The changelog was created when I ran dh_make. Should I delete the entry it created and just leave the one made by dch?
<nhandler> gouki: Is this a new package that isn't in the repositories yet?
<gouki> nhandler, yes, it is.
<nhandler> gouki: What is the upstream version of the package?
<ajmitch> right, changelogs made by dh_make target debian unstable, so you'll want 5.4-0ubuntu1
<gouki> 5.4, nhandler
<nhandler> gouki: Ok, so the version in your changelog should be '5.4-0ubuntu1'
<gouki> ajmitch, OK! Got it. Thank you.
<nhandler> gouki: You should also target 'jaunty' instead of unstable
<gouki> nhandler, but that is done manually, correct?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> you need to write that in your changelog.
<gouki> Hobbsee, OK.
<gouki> Think I got it! :)
<gouki> But as for the debian-related entry on debian/changelog, I should delete it?
<Hobbsee> yes
<gouki> OK. Thank you all very much!
<porthose> hey folks :)
<nhandler> Hi porthose
<gouki> Is there a way to test the package and force it to install the 'Recommends:' packages?
<nhandler> gouki: Recommended packages are installed by default in intrepid
<gouki> I'm running Hardy. I can create a pbuild environment for Jaunty and test it there, nhandler?
<nhandler> Not yet gouki. The Jaunty repositories haven't opened yet
<james_w> jaunty is there, so you can create a pbuilder of it
<nhandler> james_w: I thought the repositories weren't complete yet
<james_w> it's just the floodgates haven't opened yet
<james_w> nhandler: intrepid has been copied
<nhandler> james_w: I thought they were still in the process of copying it over
<james_w> nhandler: all done I believe
<james_w> the current task is getting the Jaunty toolchain in place
<nhandler> james_w: Great. Any idea when it will be unfrozen?
<james_w> when ^ is complete
<Laney> JauntyReleaseSchedule says the 6th
<ScottK> It'll open when it's ready.
<ScottK> No reason you can't upload now though.  Stuff will just sit in queue.
<nhandler> I know lintian was throwing warnings about jaunty in debian/changelog. Has this been updated?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Patches welcome no doubt.
<nhandler> ScottK: Would that be lintian that would need to be patched?
<ScottK> nhandler: Yes.
<ScottK> nhandler: A patch for debchange in devscripts to default to jaunty wouldn't be bad either.
<ScottK> nhandler: debchroot will need updating too.
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK
<NCommander> nhandler, want help making those patches :-)?
<ScottK> The lintian one is easy enough even I could do it.
<StevenK> lintian has already been patched
<ScottK> Ah.
 * NCommander needs to install dapper on a PowerPC box
<ajmitch> most of them could be done within 5 minutes
<StevenK> It's in lintian's git tree
<ScottK> OK.
<nhandler> NCommander: Thanks, but I think I can handle it
<NCommander> yay for uploads to jaunty
<NCommander> Speaking of uploads
 * ajmitch wonders if universe merges have been completed yet
<TheMuso> ajmitch: You're a funny one today.
 * NCommander reads MOTU council's archives
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I'm sure that there can't be that many to work on
<ajmitch> or at least most of the changes will have been pushed to debian, right?
<wgrant> Nah, only 400.
<ajmitch> 400 isn't too bad
<NCommander> ScottK, I just discovered there was a backports mailing list
 * TheMuso prepares jaunty chroots./
 * ajmitch preps his merge list & pbuilder
<TheMuso> One can still bootstrap, since only toolchain packages have been updated so far.
<NCommander> TheMuso, no, the entire archive have been imported for jaunty
<ajmitch> NCommander: entire debian archive, or do you just mean that intrepid has been copied?
<NCommander> Intrepid has been copied, you can debootstrap jaunty AFAIK
<ajmitch> isn't that exactly what TheMuso just said?
<TheMuso> NCommander: thats what I was saying.
 * NCommander drinks more caffiene
<ajmitch> wgrant: ok, I count 353 for jaunty at the moment, no doubt I'm missing some
<ajmitch> (universe)
<wgrant> mdt sees 405 for universe, but that will include build1
<ajmitch> right
<TheMuso> Can MoM be made to merge with experimental, since debian is frozen?
<ajmitch> that's not necessarily safe
<NCommander> TheMuso, there are a lot of things in experimental we don't want
<TheMuso> More to the point, is MoM set up that way?
<TheMuso> ah right.
 * NCommander notes that we're going to be hurting if Debian doesn't release soon
 * ajmitch is only doing a comparison of debian unstable & jaunty universe to get those 353
<ajmitch> NCommander: no, I don't think we'll hurt
<ScottK> NCommander: There is?
<wgrant> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe.html is what I'm going by.
<ajmitch> so what are the merge rules this time round?
<NCommander> ScottK, plenty of people upload SVN snapshots to experimental, I dunno if I want those over a stable release
<ScottK> NCommander: Agreed.
<NCommander> ajmitch, the main issue is that very few pakacagers are updating packages to sid to perserve the sid->lenny upgrade path
<ScottK> One always ought to know  why something is in Experimental.
 * NCommander thinks debian-changes has slowed to a trickle ATM
<ajmitch> wgrant: you're right, it's the buildX revisions that's throwing off my count
<ajmitch> since I'm only looking at versions which contain 'ubuntu'
<ScottK> It'd be nice if Lintian knew to treat those as Ubuntu builds too
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> ScottK: So it doesn't turn them into build1ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> mor that lintian doesn't complain about an unknown NMU or bad version
<ScottK> wgrant: That'd be dch, but as ajmitch says
<wgrant> Oh, damn, yes.
 * NCommander *really* wished LP just supported normal binNMUing
<NCommander> Or binary rebuilds in Ubuntu terminology
 * ajmitch wouldn't mind starting merging, apart from the whole contacting people part
<ScottK> ajmitch: You're welcome to all mine
<StevenK> NCommander: If you only accept source uploads, you can't have it both ways
<NCommander> StevenK, have a binary rebuild button on Launchpad, which causes sbuild to be called with the --binNMU switch
<StevenK> You assume Launchpad can actually call sbuild
<ScottK> It can retry failed builds.  Retrying unfailed ones shouldn't be so much harder.
<NCommander> ScottK, that works by marking the record NEEDS BUILD from FAILED
<NCommander> Which means whatever magic process checks for builds sees it and retries it, hence why the build logs get clobbered
<ScottK> NCommander: OK. so mark it NEEDS BUILDS from DONE or whatever.
<StevenK> You can't
<StevenK> The version needs to change
<NCommander> Right
<ScottK> Picky, picky, picky.
<StevenK> Be it the source version or the binary version.
<NCommander> dpkg will recongize a version with a +b1 binary as being the same base version
<StevenK> Personally, I like buildX
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'll have to get in before sebner, I guess
<NCommander> StevenK, when a binNMU is done, there is a specific catch in dak and dpkg to allow an out of sync binary and source
 * NCommander notes that a binNMU is done internally by recreating the source package, and building that
<StevenK> So I have no wish to see this changed
<ScottK> I guess I don't have very many merges waiting.
<ScottK> I think I mostly sponsored stuff this last cycle.
<ScottK> Do we have anything that will give a list of packages not in Debian with new upstream versions?
<ajmitch> I've spotted 3, 2 of which are mail
<wgrant> ScottK: Yes, gimme a sec.
<wgrant> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ shows them and Debian QA-maintained packages.
<ajmitch> ScottK: of the 1 other package that's to be merged by you, it's a transitional package
<ScottK> wgrant: THanks.
<ScottK> ajmitch: As I said, not much.
<ajmitch> I guess I won't have much to do then
<CarlFK> what is the env var that will cause dpkg-buildpackage to tell gcc build with debug symbols?
<CarlFK> probably something like FOO=-g
 * NCommander looks forward to jaunty general archive open
<gouki> Using the debian/menu file I can create a shortcut, correct?
<nhandler> gouki: I believe the debian/menu file is mainly for debian. You want to install a .desktop file.
<gouki> nhandler, do you know about documentation for that?
<nhandler> gouki: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<gouki> nhandler, thank you.
<nhandler> gouki: You should also read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#.desktop%20Files
<gouki> nhandler, that last one is very interesting. Thank you.
<nhandler> You're welcome ;)
<CarlFK> ï»¿script does "apt-get source $PACKAGE" which creates a dir based on package+version- how can I figure out what the dir is so the script can cd into it?
<pangloss> anyone have a second to answer a question?
<jdong> etiquette here is to ask the question and see if anyone answers it :)
<pangloss> hah
<pangloss> are there any tutorials on how to use dput to upload source packages to your ppa?
<ajmitch> !ppa
<ubottu> With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<pangloss> thanks ajmitch
<ScottK> pangloss: In general, PPA questions are best asked in #launchpad.
<pangloss> ScottK: Sorry, I figured this would be a good place to ask since its a motu related thing
<ScottK> pangloss: If it's a PPA, it's not.
<gouki> Matthew Garrett is not the developer of Ultamatix, is he? http://nancib.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/pengs-links-for-sunday-2-november
<ajmitch> no, he certainly isn't
<ajmitch> he wouldn't have such scathing opinions of it if that were the case
<StevenK> If he were, it might actually do sane stuff, too
<ajmitch> one would expect some sanity from him
<ajmitch> his rants are always rather amusing
<StevenK> Hm
<StevenK> Matthew didn't write Automatix either
<ajmitch> He would have been soundly beaten if he did
<Flannel> Ultamatix is the same crap from automatix.
<Flannel> The advertised "rewrite to make it safer" didn't happen
<StevenK> It's just so full of fail
<pangloss> motu
<gouki> I was ALMOST sure he didn't do it, but I could be missing something because of my English.
<pangloss> youre recipes are broken >.<
<nxvl_> gouki: you uploaded the package?
 * ajmitch is getting nervous with the water dripping from the ceiling
<gouki> nxvl_, no I did not. Did think you'd be back.
<gouki> Let me work on that.
<pangloss> This guide is broken https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Recipe:%20Updating%20An%20Ubuntu%20Package
<pangloss> bad motu..
<pangloss> go sit in the corner!
<nhandler> What is broked pangloss ?
<pangloss> nhandler, first of all, step 4 skips a step
<pangloss> it does not show you how to install the old source package
<pangloss> secondly
<nhandler> pangloss: You don't install the old source package
<pangloss> extract is a better term?
<nhandler> Yeah
<nhandler> And I thought someone said they updated this recipe earlier today
<pangloss> because you need the brasero-0.5.2 directory
<pangloss> well it does not look very updated
<pangloss> and additionally
<pangloss> the package does not build when you;re finished
<pangloss> so
<nhandler> What messages are produced when you go to build?
<pangloss> 1 sec
<pangloss> here is what I can see, but I will send you the whole file too
<pangloss> nhandler: http://paste.ubuntu.com/66592/
<nhandler> pangloss: They modified the dget command to be dget -xu. That should create the required folder
<nhandler> And how were you building that package pangloss ?
<pangloss> well I tried it two ways
<pangloss> first with pbuilder on my computer via 'sudo pbuilder build <package.dsc>
<pangloss> '
<nhandler> What version of Ubuntu is your pbuilder chroot?
<pangloss> and the second via launchpads servers incase my pbuilder was broken
<pangloss> its intrepid
<pangloss> I ran this
<pangloss> 'sudo pbuilder create --distribution intrepid \        --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid main restricted universe multiverse"'
<pangloss> nhandler here is the whole FAILEDTOBUILD log http://paste.ubuntu.com/66593/
<pangloss> I followed the recipe to a tee
<nhandler> pangloss: Give me a second to try and follow the recipe
<nhandler> pangloss: Are you running your own repo mirror?
<pangloss> nhandler: I have my own PPA
<pangloss> https://launchpad.net/~james-burkle/+archive
<nhandler> Is this the build log from the ppa?
<pangloss> yes
<nhandler> Ok
<pangloss> 3 e-mails, 3 fails
<pangloss> thanks for your time nhandler
<nhandler> pangloss: I actually have to head of to bed now. I'll finish going through the recipe tomorrow. Sorry.
<pangloss> ok, thanks
 * Elbrus is also heading to bed
<gouki> I uploaded my first package to REVU. I was wondering if someone could point out the stupid things I've done? :)
<coppro> who took out the pbuilder completions?
<porthose> gouki: give use a link
<gouki> porthose, I've been looking at it, but still hasn't showed up.
<porthose> NCommander: you can only upload to REVU now if you are a UUC or higher correct?
<ScottK> porthose: That's a proposal.  It's not implemented yet.
<gouki> So my dput.cf with anonymous works but it just has a delay?
<NCommander> gouki, 5-20 minutes
 * NCommander can't remember what the crontab is currently set to
<gouki> OK, NCommander. Thank you.
<NCommander> ScottK, can you upload a merge for me?
<ScottK> NCommander: I could, but it won't go anywhere.
<ScottK> Can it wait (it's a bit late)
<NCommander> Yeah
 * NCommander is just attacking his list of merges
<ScottK> NCommander: Who plus 1'ed your MOTU app so far?
<NCommander> dholbach and
<NCommander> uhhhh
 * NCommander blanks on the second name
<ScottK> nixternal?
<NCommander> THere we go
<NCommander> (yes)
<NCommander> wooo, midori merged
<NCommander> one down, four to go
<ScottK> Well hopefully soren, geser, or persia will give you an upcheck soon and you can upload yourself.
<ScottK> My first Jaunty upload is sitting in unapproved.
<NCommander> ScottK, did you do any checking in adept w.r.t. to version pinning?
<ScottK> NCommander: Not any successful checking.
 * NCommander guesses adept might not have pinning support
 * ScottK doens't normally use it, so doesn't know if it's unsupported or he didn't figure it out.
<ScottK> I'm guessing not as Adept 3 (for KDE4) was a total rewrite.
<NCommander> ScottK, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/intrepid-backports/+spec/backport-pinning-support
<coppro> and it sucks
<coppro> just wanted it out there
<gouki> Hmmm ... Don't think the package went through :S
<NCommander> gouki, have you actually added any GPG keys to your Launchpad account (and then signed into REVU?)
<jdong> NCommander: personally I prefer the debian backports.org system for this
<Yasumoto> hey guys, I've got a debdiff on here that seems to be helping a decent amount of people, I'm wondering what the next steps I should take are
<jdong> but the chances of getting LP folks to implement that is zilch
<Yasumoto> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomecanvas/+bug/272316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272316 in libgnomecanvas "[regression, intrepid] redraw problems, patches from fedora" [Low,Confirmed]
<gouki> My GPG is on LP, but I uploaded as anonymous. Do I need to sign in?
<NCommander> jdong, that's what we're trying to implement
<Yasumoto> I know that Intrepid's just released, and I have no problems waiting on it for a while, but just want to to know if there's anything I can do to help push it along
<NCommander> jdong, it needs both work on the GUI to be more user friendly (synaptic has pinning support, but I actually had to use the manual to find it), and it needs modification to Soyuz to pin the repo below 100
<ScottK> jdong: We can ask.
<NCommander> ScottK, alternatively, we can drop a hack into APT (or ship a conffile) that pins the repo lower
<NCommander> Not a pretty solution, but better than no pinning
<ScottK> NCommander: Get the gui figured out first ...
<jdong> NCommander: I'd rather have separate sections like the Debian implementation
<NCommander> ScottK, as I said, synaptic has support, I just need to figure out how to make it more "clean"
<NCommander> separate sections?
<NCommander> jdong, - ^
 * NCommander is just familar w/ pinning on the backports.org repo
<jdong> NCommander: yeah, like Debian backports.org puts each application in its own section
<NCommander> WHen did that happen
<jdong> NCommander: i.e. deb http://backports.org/... all
<jdong> specifies every backport
<jdong> or you can specify ... gimp firefox bzr
<NCommander> Uhhh O_O;
<jdong> unless they removed that abilitiy within the past 2 years
<NCommander> oh, you mean having to manually install each package, right?
<NCommander> (apt-get -t etch-backports intsall *package*
<wgrant> That sounds more like a hack.
<ScottK> wgrant: It's better than having to enable all of backports to get one package.
<jdong> wgrant: do you think pinning is solid enough for selective backport picking?
<NCommander> wgrant, no, he's referring to the pinning used by default on the backports repositry
<NCommander> Well, the apt-get has the -t branch, which sets the pin on a repo to 990
<jdong> NCommander: which doesn't work with source, but still that's another point
<NCommander> By default apt will ignore anything with a low enough pin prioity (under 200)
<wgrant> I'm not sure if pinning will work well here, but there must be a better solution
<stefanlsd> Yasumoto: If you believe the patch addresses the when of a SRU - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates   - you can follow that process
<NCommander> My solution is we pin the backport repo to 100 so backports will not automatically clobber main packages
<jdong> I'd like something like add/remove programs for browsing backports
<NCommander> And then in synaptic, have a Backport Available section
<jdong> NCommander: but then a user can have a weird mix of backports and non-backports that we don't support
<jdong> NCommander: I'm SURE our dependencies aren't specified well enough for this to be robuts
<jdong> robust*
<NCommander> We already don't support backports, and suggest pinning in our directions
<jdong> well we suggest it as a hack.
<NCommander> jdong, when you have a -t option set, the dependencies are pulled from the backport repo
<jdong> NCommander: and how confident are you that all dependencies are represented properly? :)
<NCommander> That's a bug and deserves an upload to fix ;-)
<ScottK> Ohhh.
 * ScottK stops typing since NCommander took the words out of his mouth.
<nxvl> NCommander: hi! can you look in the revu queue why is hydra not being showed?
<jdong> NCommander: lol I recall my days of mixing testing and sid this way and NASTY things happened.
<NCommander> jdong, most people only enable backports for a single package or two
<jdong> NCommander: [citation needed]
<ScottK> jdong: Key difference is that we're building against the target release and so it should be OK.
<NCommander> By having them only install that package and any necessary dependencies should pulled only
<jdong> ScottK: alright, if you feel it's okay I have no bojections to it
<NCommander> jdong, thats how backports.org works
<Yasumoto> stefanlsd: alright, sweet. thanks :)
<jdong> ok, so if a-backport depends on b-backport, and user selects a-backport, but later b-backport has an update available, what happens?
<nxvl> gouki: you need to subscribe you to revu-uploaders
<nxvl> gouki: https://edge.launchpad.net/~revu-uploaders
<jdong> does this middle dependency get pulled in?
<NCommander> nxvl, er, thats a little out of date :-)
<NCommander> nxvl, we haven't allowed that in ages
<NCommander> jdong, err, huh?
<NCommander> jdong, if at the time of installation a backport requires an updated dependency (that is package a depends on package b which is > than whats in hardy, then that package will get pulled in)
<jdong> NCommander: ok, user installs dvdrip backport which pulls in new x264 backport. Two weeks later a critical security bug appears in x264 and we update it.
<nxvl> NCommander: what? revu-uploaders?
<jdong> NCommander: does this automatically get pulled in with the pinning config?
<NCommander> nxvl, yeah, that's been unused for months now
<coppro> I don't think so
<NCommander> jdong, no
<coppro> I don't think you can pin a specific repo
<jdong> NCommander: well, that's broken IMO.
<coppro> I just don't pin
<NCommander> jdong, our current methodology is also broken. ONe bad backport and we can break a load of users not using an existing package
<NCommander> coppro, you can, you can pin specific packages and repos
<nxvl> gouki: then you don't
<ScottK> NCommander: Not implemented in Adept, but upstream is open to implementing for Jaunty if we can get a design done.
<nxvl> :P
<jdong> NCommander: agreed. but I'm not happy with pinning as a proposed solution.
<gouki> nxvl, haven't.
<coppro> oh so you can pin a package from updating from a specific repo?
<nxvl> NCommander: so, can you check why is that package not being listed please
<NCommander> gouki, are your GPG keys on Launchpad properly set?
<NCommander> (what was the package?)
 * coppro eagerly awaits the oo.o3 backport
<jdong> NCommander: and please rewrite blueprints in a non-implementation-specific manner.
<StevenK> Argh
<gouki> NCommander, yes, they are.
<NCommander> gouki, have you actually logged into REVU since last updating your keys?
<jdong> pinning is not necessarily the *ONLY* way to accomplish what we want, and in fact rigth now I disagree with implementation by pinning.
<jdong> I DO want the behavior of selective backports
<ScottK> jdong: OK.  Then let's agree on that.
<jdong> let's keep the spec at that until we figure out a sane implementation
 * NCommander edits the spec
<gouki> NCommander, yes.
<coppro> you could give each backport its own repo [/badidea[
<ScottK> jdong: I do think pinning would be an improvement over the current situation, but certainly if we can do better ...
<jdong> coppro: not any worseofanidea than pinning
<jdong> coppro: the problem is shared dependencies
<jdong> actually... what *if* each backport was in a separate repo?
<NCommander> Well, maybe we can get a security-backports repo then
<coppro> can't you do it like PPAs do and allow dependency on specific other ones only?
<wgrant> jdong: Then  we would murder you!
<NCommander> Or just make sure security annoucements are released
<jdong> wgrant: lol is it that unreasonable an idea other than launchpad dev overhead to implement?
<jdong> coppro: exactly
<jdong> that's what I'm thinking. What if it was like each backport was in an independent "PPA"
<jdong> and the GUI for selecting backports simply enables each one of these.
<coppro> then it would be awesome
 * NCommander gets an idea
<coppro> uh oh
<StevenK> Then you need to add six or seven PPAs if you backport something large
<jdong> there would need to be some magic on the implementation side to get this workflow easier for archive admins
<NCommander> We can use APT pins
<coppro> and the difference is?
<NCommander> But we need to expand the scope
<coppro> we could also modify apt
<NCommander> Every time you install a package, we need to pin that package to 200, so it will get installed and ugpraded automatically
<jdong> StevenK: well why is that a horrible thing if a UI represents the dependency properly?
<StevenK> jdong: Because it means Software Sources turns into a cesspoll
<NCommander> When a security fault is found, we modify the package to explicately depend on the new version in backports. As long as the installed package is pinned, apt-get dist-upgrade will pull the updated dependency
<NCommander> ^- jdong
<StevenK> cesspool
<NCommander> That means APT need a way to programmability change pins
<jdong> NCommander: can't we still run into situations where one bad backport breaks more backports?
<coppro> here's a worse idea than making every backport a PPA
<NCommander> jdong, no
<NCommander> jdong, ok, if we have a depends on a (>= 0.2)
<coppro> modify apt to allow an archive not to be selected for default updates, and then make it so that it will update if it is a package from that repo or depended on by one in it
<NCommander> And APT sees 0.2, and 0.22, but the repo 0.22 is pinned below 200
<NCommander> It will install 0.2 over 0.22
<NCommander> If we ever find a security fault in a backported version, we simply change the dependencies in the rdepends that we've backported to pull in the newer dependencies explicately
<jdong> well I still don't personally like the idea of one big monolithic backports pool
<jdong> I think using pinning is a HACK to make something MONOLITHIC appear MODULAR.
<NCommander> I can't see the soyuz developers changing that anytime soon though
 * coppro likes his idea, even though it's mostly ridiculous
<jdong> I think ideally backports would be modular enough that you can enable one channel at a time
<NCommander> and there are people who still want the entire backports repo open totally
<NCommander> so any apps that get backported with new features they can still take advantage of
<jdong> but I think we're bordering on the limits of APT.
<coppro> NCommander: my suggestion allows that, but it means modifying the apt and any other package system sources
<jdong> note that we could use sources.list.d to manage this stuff :)
<NCommander> Well, I think backports would have to leave Launchpad if we did it
<NCommander> And we'd have to run repopro or something equivelent
<jdong> nobody's leaving launchpad anytime soon.
<ScottK> We don't want to go that direction.
<jdong> NCommander: I still have issues with backports-building-on-backports. you *WILL*. that's read *WILL* end up with a clusterfsck situation that pulls everything in.
<NCommander> I don't think we can fessibly make a new pocket with each new backport
<jdong> NCommander: think about a subversion 1.5.0 backport, a git backport, and then a bzr backport.
<jdong> you isntall bzr. what happens?
<NCommander> point taken
<ScottK> jdong: Backports already build on backports, so that's not making things worse.
<jdong> ScottK: right, I'm saying it doesn't solve the problem with not being able to granularly select backports
<NCommander> I still think pinning support is best rewards for the lowest cost
<jdong> perhaps that's true.
<jdong> I'll agree with that
<ScottK> jdong: You've got to bring the depends in.  There's no way around that.
<NCommander> We can't elimate risk of regressions
<jdong> ScottK: right, but what if I want a git backport but I'm not interested in subversion 1.5?
<ScottK> The problem with the svn backport was not enough rdpends testing.
<NCommander> jdong, well, if you want bzr-svn, you still need subversion 1.5 due to the dependency of bzr-svn
<ScottK> jdong: As long as you don't install git-svn your'e fine.
<jdong> I'm just using subversion and git as an example of a common library backport plus a bunch of rdepends backports.
<jdong> just the first example that came to mind
<NCommander> As a general rule of thumb, we attempt to avoid library backports for this very reason
<ScottK> Well historically we don't do so many of those.
<ScottK> svn had to happen though.
<jdong> what if.... crack idea... backports were a per-user service?
<jdong> i.e. right click, backport this
<jdong> and some prevu/pbuilder backend on the local system built the backport?
<ScottK> jdong: Getdeb.
<NCommander> Isn't that what prevu designed to do an extent?
<jdong> ScottK: oh god that's not what I meant.
<jdong> NCommander: yes but it needs to be integrated within our package management tools
<jdong> and made even MORE zero-setup friendly
<NCommander> actually
<NCommander> I just got an insane idea
<NCommander> Launchpad is implementing two features
<NCommander> Multiple PPAs per user
<NCommander> and native syncing
<ScottK> OK.  It was how it sounded.
<NCommander> What we could do is when a user requests a backport
<NCommander> We backport as normal
<jdong> ScottK: lol I could argue that it's completely different :D
<NCommander> BUT we can also copy that backport into a users PPA
<NCommander> The user enables their own PPA
<NCommander> ANd gets said backport
<jdong> NCommander: well that depends on users being launchpad zombies
<NCommander> Add a mechanism where someone can pick and choose their own backports and ...
<jdong> and with our resident launchpad critic nearby I have to say, we need a local alternative.
<NCommander> They already are to request them in the first place :-)
 * NCommander watches ScottK just approve the idea :-) *shot*
<jdong> NCommander: using LP to communicate with devs is not the same as requiring LP to use -backports :)
<NCommander> Well, I think its saner.
<jdong> NCommander: haha you're asking Ubuntu's biggest LP critic to support your idea that 100% depends on Launchpad for correct operation? :)
<NCommander> We're not going to get away from a massive pool of backports
<jdong> ok, why NOT, have prevu on local systems build each user's backports?
<jdong> that way users can customize which backports they want.
<NCommander> How do you handle backports that need porting
<ScottK> Until PPAs are signed, they can't be a replacement for backports.
<jdong> NCommander: patch repo?
<NCommander> Oooh
<NCommander> Now THERE is an idea
<jdong> NCommander: like a debdiff repo :)
<NCommander> We could just offer a source based repo
<NCommander> (deb-src *backports*
<ScottK> Oh dear lord you all need to look for simplicity, not complexity.
<NCommander> I just don't like the ideas of users compiling an entire chain of backports
<jdong> NCommander: right. then prevu would check this repo for a source package and prefer it to launchpadding an intrepid package.
<NCommander> jdong, we could just have that source repo in APT, no need to get too fancy
<NCommander> For most users, thats not going to blow the world up :-P
<ScottK> Step back and look at your design goals.  Don't dive straight into implementation.
<jdong> NCommander: nah we don't need to use a APT source repo in sources.list
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> ScottK is right
<NCommander> THe objection is to allow selective installation of backports
<jdong> yeah, let's first get a correct spec written.
<jdong> objective, use cases.
<NCommander> Who wants to start writing
 * NCommander looks at jdong
<jdong> well I need to start sleeping :)
<jdong> classes tomorrow :)
<tbielawa> can some one tell me what started this convesation?
<tbielawa> and how I can jump in?
<jdong> tbielawa: lol I don't know but I somehow got sucked into it
<tbielawa> :)
 * NCommander wrote a blueprint
<NCommander> I don't think either of you are going to be at UDS, are you ?
 * NCommander knows ScottK won't ...
<tbielawa> NCommander, I'm trying hard to get there
<ScottK> Nope.
<NCommander> jdong, how about you?
<jdong> NCommander: I'm not going to be
<jdong> I wish I had the time to be :)
 * NCommander shall be alone then at UDS
<StevenK> NCommander: Pack tissues.
<tbielawa> sonicmtails?
<NCommander> tbielawa, ?
<NCommander> yeah?
<tbielawa> NCommander, trying to find your blueprint
<NCommander> thats me
 * ScottK decides to let the two youngsters fight it out and heads to bed.
<stefanlsd> heh. off 2 work. bbl :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<iulian> Hey dholbach, ajmitch.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<tbielawa> any revu admins on?
<tbielawa> oh ajmitch
<tbielawa> perhaps I'm being silly, or something happened I don't know about. But I'm getting Permission denied (publickey) on revu uploads
<wgrant> tbielawa: uh, why are you trying to upload over SSH?
<tbielawa> it appears to be the default mechanism for upload.
<tbielawa> I see a small notice now on the wiki about ftp, but it's not my default upload method. and the wiki doesn't have it defined as ftp. Should it be?
<tbielawa> it's uploaded now. thanks for pointing that out.
<StevenK> I don't think REVU or Ubuntu has every allowed uploading via ssh
<StevenK> s/\(ever\)y/\1/
<tbielawa> I see what my problem was now
<tbielawa> can anyone take a look at my lucidlife upload on revu please?
<wgrant> Are the licensing and duplication issues resolved?
<tbielawa> was unable to replicatate the ftbfs
<tbielawa> licensing is taken care of
<wgrant> Mine was also rejected partly on the grounds that it was similar to gtklife or whatever it is that it derives from.
<tbielawa> ah
<tbielawa> xlife was the first I think
<porthose> tbielawa: are you still working on symmetrica?
<tbielawa> no work to be done. I should archive it. it was a straight sync from debian.
<porthose> tbielawa: k
<tbielawa> revu fails at archiving :(
<tbielawa> If anyone is around to debug revu, here's the fail message when archiving an upload http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/66630/
<laga> can someone fom motu-sru look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/292319 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292319 in mythbuntu-diskless "SRU: nbd-client is killed during diskless client shutdown" [Undecided,New]
<huats> morning
<porthose> huats: mornin (well it's soon to be bed time for me) :)
<huats> hey porthose :)
<Laney> all quiet on the universe front
<orly_owl> Everyone jumped ship.
<flithm> Hey everyone... I'm the author of an app (gizmod) that's available in universe, and users are reporting an error with boost.python1.34.1 missing a symbol on amd64 only.  This is a bug in boost, and I'm wondering if it's possible to have gizmod recompiled with the new boost (1.35) that's available in the repos?  Am willing to help with this process!  Could even push out a new source release requiring 1.35 if desired
<flithm> PriceChild: you around?
<james_w> hi flithm, is this bug in Intrepid?
<flithm> james_w: yes
<james_w> flithm: is it reported on launchpad?
<flithm> james_w: the boost bug is, but not the gizmod one I don't think, should I open a ticket?
<james_w> yeah, we'll need something for the SRU process
<flithm> james_w: okay no problem
<james_w> if you could add a "TEST CASE:" as explained in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates that would be fantastic
<james_w> flithm: and please add a pointer to the boost bug
<flithm> will do
<flithm> james_w: bug opened: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gizmod/+bug/293082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293082 in gizmod "gizmod in Ibex fails to run on amd64 systems due to bug in boost-1.34.1" [Undecided,New]
 * ScottK leaves Bug #271453 for jdong.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271453 in hardy-backports "Please backport Pidgin 2.5.1-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271453
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<Laney> sup
<bddebian> Hi ScottK, Laney
<ScottK> bddebian: So did you switch to using Debian?
<bddebian> Well I had 1 Debian laptop and 1 Ubuntu still but my Ubuntu laptop died last week :-(
<bddebian> Though I don't think I did a single upload for Intrepid :'-(
<ScottK> Yeah.  I ended up grabbing some of your Debian RC bug fixes.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<Laney> Can someone review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm for me? It already got one advocate from RainCT
<bddebian> Shit, getting a new ISP is a PITA.  Do I re-subscribe to the Ubuntu MLs with ubuntu.com, debian.org, or verizon.net address? :)
<azeem> bddebian: use bddebian.com
<bddebian> Well that's untested with verizon.  Comcast had issues with my mailhop forwarding :(
<ScottK> bddebian: Got FIOS?
<bddebian> ScottK: Yeah though now I'm regretting it
<bddebian> They freakin block port 80
<ScottK> bddebian: Really?  Ah.  I've got the business package so that's not a problem.
<ScottK> I'm finding it quite nice.
<bddebian> Yeah the speed is nice but now I'm hosed for the Hurd wiki I was hosting
<ScottK> IME reliability is MUCH better than Comcast.
<bddebian> A lot of people have said that.  I actually rarely had any downtime with Comcast
<henrik-kabelkaos> i'm curious. are there any periods in particular you're doing REVU stuff?
<coppro> right now I think
<Laney> there are REVU days
<RainCT> henrik-kabelkaos: there'll be a REVU Day next Friday (and the following Fridays too)
<coppro> hmm... my update isn't going through to revu
<coppro> dput worked but it's not showing up
<RainCT> let me check
<coppro> RainCT: package is metakit
<RainCT> coppro: I can't see it
<coppro> hmm... I'll dput again
<coppro> just says "already uploaded"
<henrik-kabelkaos> coppro: you need to bump ubuntu version.
<coppro> henrik-kabelkaos: oh, ok
<coppro> last time I did that I was told not to, I think
<coppro> anyway, gotta leave for school
<coppro> bye
<RainCT> coppro: you don't have to, just use dput -f
<RainCT> coppro: and.. you did "dput revu" (and not just "dput"), right?
<loeppel> anyone here who can help me with a dapper ppa?!
<loeppel> got some strange build errors
<loeppel> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18533338/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.php5_5.2.4-2ubuntu5.3ppa1.6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<RainCT> loeppel: seems like debian/control is wrong
<RainCT> loeppel: can you paste it somewhere?
<loeppel> RainCT, yes
<loeppel> this control seems to work on feisty
<loeppel> maybe the variables changed
<loeppel> http://de.pastebin.ca/1244097
<loeppel> but i don't understand why this build on feisty also on dapper
<RainCT> loeppel: because of ${source:Version}, that's new
<RainCT> I think it had another name before
<loeppel> ${Source-Version}
<loeppel> ?!
<loeppel> i just copied the control over from the feisty package
<loeppel> what's the easiest method to fix this?
<loeppel> (sorry for my bad english - i'll try my best ;)
<slytherin> loeppel: is the version string split over multiple lines?
<loeppel> what is the version string split?!
<loeppel> php5 - 5.2.4-2ubuntu5.3ppa1.6
<loeppel> this is the version
<loeppel> of the package
<slytherin> loeppel: I am talking about Depends of libapache2-mod-php5.
<RainCT> slytherin: he's using ${source:Version}, which iirc had another name back on Dapper
<RainCT> but I don't remember which
<slytherin> RainCT: or the problem may be here
<slytherin> php5-common (=
<slytherin> ${binary:Version}),
<RainCT> slytherin: i
<loeppel> this is one line
<loeppel> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, mime-support (>= 2.03-1), ${apache2:Depends}, php5-common (= ${binary:Version}), libmagic1, ucf
<RainCT> slytherin: *I'm pretty sure that's the problem because the log seems to complain about empty parentheses in the Depends
<loeppel> maybe the pase service malformed it
<slytherin> loeppel: I checked it directly from your PPA, not from pastebin
<loeppel> oh ok
<loeppel> you are clever ;)
<loeppel> so what can i do?
<loeppel> it's so anyoing that there is no port of php 5.2 for dapper
<loeppel> just for this reason i learned many things about packaging in debain and ubuntu
<slytherin> loeppel: when ever you want to have values over multiple lines, start the 2nd, 3rd line with a blank space so that it is parsed in continuation of previous line
<loeppel> ok, but there are only single lines in my control
<loeppel> for Depends and Suggests etc
<RainCT> slytherin: Ah right, I missed the space. So did ${source:Version} already work on Dapper?
<loeppel> on feisty it works - and both use debhelper 5.x - but maybe they changed it too...
<loeppel> which space you are talking about?
<RainCT> loeppel: you've to add an empty space on the line after "Depends:", so that the tools know that the depends still continue there
<loeppel> same as with Description
<RainCT> yep
<loeppel> but a line ends normaly with \n or \r\n right?
<loeppel> and there is no \n and/or \r\n before i finish with my Depends:
<loeppel> also i just copied this from another ppa, and there its working, so i can't understand your suggestion ;-)
<RainCT> btw, anyone up for giving http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm a second advocation?
<loeppel> RainCT, so where you think my control is wrong? Either i'm stupid or there is jut no line break within any Depends ?!
<slytherin> loeppel: My suggestion is based on the control file found in your PPA.
<loeppel> yes, and i can't see there any line breaks within "Depends: ..." - can you?
<slytherin> loeppel: I am seeing them in gedit, let me check in VI
<loeppel> ok
<loeppel> or look at the diff, there you see a + for each line, so its very easy: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18532555/php5_5.2.4-2ubuntu5.3ppa1.6.diff.gz
<karooga> Hi, anyone got a few minutes to revu a package of mine?
<slytherin> loeppel: I am not seeing line break in vi. SO that reason is rules out. Next check if binary:Version is the right variable.
<RainCT> karooga: including a link and a description increases your changes of getting a review
<loeppel> ok, but thats the problem, i don't know where the variables came from?!
<loeppel> so which variables exist?
<loeppel> i've searched in the debian manual, but couldn't find anything
<slytherin> loeppel: Can't help much. I have no idea about that variable.
<loeppel> hmm, thats bad
<loeppel> maybe a should replace it by another?!
<loeppel> i've compard the control file with the one found in dotdeb.org packages of php5.2.x
<loeppel> this guy builds up to date php versions for debian etch
<RainCT> slytherin: do you remember where the file explaining all changes to Debian Policy is?
<loeppel> dapper and etch, have similar release dates...
<RainCT> ah found it
<RainCT> loeppel: replace that with   ${Source-Version}
<loeppel> this guy just using ${Source-Version} instead of ${source:Version} and ${binary:Version}
<loeppel> yes
<loeppel> ok
<loeppel> i'll try taht
<loeppel> that
<loeppel> but i think it very strange that this variable works in feisty and up (including intrepid)
<slytherin> loeppel: you will need to do that replacement in lot of places.
<loeppel> i know
<loeppel> i'll using search and replace function in medit ;)
<slytherin> nothing strange in that
<karooga> RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pyephem  (A python package that  provides scientific-grade astronomical computations).
<loeppel> why isn't that strange? Is the Change of Varibales in control files normal?!
<RainCT> karooga: (was just a typ, I'm busy right now :))
<RainCT> *tip
<karooga> RainCT: I know, was just a hint on my part.  :-)  This package seems very straight forward - I think. Still waiting for upstream on that other one btw you revued.
<slytherin> can anyone help with the watch file error here - http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/maintainer.php?name=electric
<loeppel> slytherin, maybe look at uscan.pl and search for the error, and see witch code is causing it, so you see whats missing, but i've no expierence with uscan or watch ;)
<slytherin> loeppel: not in mood for that much analysis. :-)
<RainCT> slomo: there are two spaces
<RainCT> err, sorry, that was for slytherin
<james_w> I'm looking at goocanvasmm
<Laney> :>
 * RainCT ^5 james_w :)
<james_w> Laney: nice work, it's pretty much perfect
<james_w> Laney: care to teach me something?
<Laney> It had some comments from reviewers
<Laney> sure
<james_w> DEB_SHLIBDEPS_INCLUDE <- what's that do?
<sebner> james_w: I'll finally attach a debdiff for twiki tomorrow (which fixes the 2 important bugs). /me is just curious if that's a normal SRU or a security thing
<james_w> sebner: I'm not sure, I can't remember the bug it was fixing now
<sebner> james_w: it was somehow secrity related but not a CVE
<james_w> k, probably a normal SRU, but you may want to ask #ubuntu-hardened
<sebner> james_w: sure, thx
<Laney> james_w: It just specifies the dir to search for shlibs stuff
<james_w> Laney: and why is that different to the default?
<Laney> I don't know what the default is...
<Laney> hang on
<sebner> james_w: and *after* I finally got this twiki thing finished I'll write my application. I suppose you tell me that you haven't sponsored enought right? (anyways, you surely can add positive or negative comments)
<james_w> someone else was asking me that as well, I'm having trouble remembering what I have sponsored from people :-)
<james_w> I can certainly comment though
<bobbo> james_w: did you get the email I sent you the other day?
<james_w> bobbo: yeah, you were who I was referring to :-)
<james_w> I was just going to reply
<james_w> if you can give me pointers to the things I sponsored for you that would help
<Laney> james_w: I don't know where I got the template from
<slomo> RainCT: two spaces?
<bobbo> james_w: sure 2 minutes
<james_w> bobbo: I have only found one upload, but I remember some sync requests as well
<james_w> bobbo: /msg is fine
<james_w> Laney: hmm, it's not going to break anything, but checking if it is needed would be good
<james_w> Laney: really picky comments:
<sebner> james_w: kk, fine then
<james_w> Laney: ${misc:Depends} for the -dev package wouldn't hurt
<james_w> Laney: calling the docs junk might not win you any friends if upstream looks at your rules file
<james_w> Laney: and the package takes too long to build :-)
<Laney> hah
<james_w> Laney: I'm really having to scrape the barrel though
<Laney> What does the misc:Depends do?
<apachelogger> soren, geser: please take a look at ncommander's MOTU application if you get a chance, so far only dholbach and nixternal voted :)
<james_w> Laney: it allows debhelper to add certain depends to a package automatically, e.g. whatever package contains the gtk icon cache thing if you use dh_icons
<james_w> Laney: it rarely makes a difference though, don't bother changing it now or anything
<Laney> right
<RainCT> slomo: sorry, bad tab completion, that was for slytherin
<james_w> Laney: where does glom use the canvas?
<Laney> james_w: Sorry, I was doing some work. Try the relationship overview under Developer
<james_w> Laney: I've managed to move a table such that I can't see it or grab it anymore
<james_w> Laney: would that be a bug in the canvas?
<Laney> murrayc is upstream ;)
<james_w> it seems to only be drawing a small part of the canvas, rather than the full area given for it in the window
<Laney> I see that too.
<Laney> It's probably a glom bu
<Laney> g
<james_w> yeah, that's what I think
<james_w> anyway, tag, you can report it :-)
<Laney> shall do
<james_w> Laney: anyway, are you happy for me to upload?
<Laney> james_w: I am. It seems like the include line in rules is redundant, at least from my smoke testing, but I'd leave it in if you're going to upload now and fix it on the next upload. You can fix the comment in rules if you'd like.
<james_w> nah, I'll upload as is, next upload you can change things as you like
<Laney> righto
<james_w> though I may have to fix a bug first
<james_w> gnome has stopped mounting my luks usb key
<james_w> Laney: Uploaded. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goocanvasmm is available for you to subscribe to the bug mail. Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu :-)
<james_w> and I hope next time you can upload it yourself
<bobbo> What should I do with this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/feedparser/+bug/274750 The sync was ACKed but no archive admins team subscribed. Is it just a case of waiting until Jaunty is open and subscribing them?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274750 in feedparser "Please sync feedparser 4.1-12 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Laney> james_w: Woohoo!
<Laney> thanks for your review, and RainCT too
<james_w> er, sorry bobbo
<Laney> I just need to prod huats to get bakery2.6 up
<Laney> then we can upload glom 1.8
<bobbo> james_w: heh, its all good :D
<james_w> bobbo: fixed
<bobbo> james_w: took my mentor long enough to work out what had happened :D
<james_w> can someone put http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm in to the correct bucket please, or do I have the power for that?
<porthose> james_w: done
<loeppel> can anybody here explain where the variables in control files defined?
<azeem> which variables?
<loeppel> things linke ${apache:Depends}
<loeppel> like
<azeem> do you mean when/where they are substituted?
<azeem> or are you looking for a list of all those variable names and their purpose?
<loeppel> both ;)
<azeem> I don't think the latter exists
<porthose> If someone has some time would you please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=quickplay
<loeppel> my problem is at backporting a package, things went wrong
<loeppel> the depends are false
<loeppel> my package depends on apache2.2-common but in dapper is only apache2-common
<loeppel> and in control there is only a ${apache2:Depends}
<loeppel> so i thorght this will replaced with the right version in my pbuilder environment
<loeppel> but this seems to be wrong
<loeppel> so it must be defined anywhere
<loeppel> maybe in the "./debian" directory?!
<loeppel> you understand my problem?
<azeem> did you check your build log that you don't drag an apache2.2 dapper backport into it?
<azeem> otherwise, the variables are getting written to debian/substvars and put into debian/control by dpkg-shlibdeps or dpkg-gencontrol I believe, both are called from a similar sounding dh_ script
<loeppel> azeem, i use ppa build system
<loeppel> so i don't think there is a apache2.2-common in the dapper section, is it?
<azeem> dunno
<azeem> I'd check nevertheelss
<azeem> nevertheless*
<loeppel> ok
<azeem> otherwise, if you grep -R apache2.2 debian/ and there's no result, it's indeed weird
<loeppel> oh, in rules there is something
<loeppel> thank you!!
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I have to update a package with that version: 0.0.20080102-2.1build1
<fabrice_sp> dch is proposing 0.0.20080102-2.1build2. Is it right? It's for a SRU
 * NCommander notes there is no hardline "correct" versioning for an SRU
<fabrice_sp> I would say that the right version would be 0.0.20080102-2.1ubuntu0.1 for that
<fabrice_sp> as it's not only a rebuild
<nxvl> james_w: what is the magical line for building a native package from bzr
<nxvl> ?
<nxvl> james_w: neverminf found it
<nxvl> :D
<fabrice_sp> geser: are you there? You're the one that updated openmovieeditor version to 0.0.20080102-2.1build1
<mathiaz> fabrice_sp: 0.0.20080102-2.1ubuntu0.1 seems a good option. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures for more information on choosing a version number ( Preparing an update section, point 4).
<fabrice_sp> mathiaz: great! Thanks for the link :-) (and the answer ;-) )
<fabrice_sp> by the way, it seems that bug #283762 is solved by a rebuild (at least in my pbuilder, the dependencies updates). Do I just upload a debdiff with a version update to force rebuild?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283762 in openmovieeditor "Does not recognize unstripped video packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283762
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, yes please.
<fabrice_sp> ok, DktrKranz. I have to fill a SRU, I suppose
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, yes, but seems trivial enough
<fabrice_sp> ok. I'm on it. Thanks
<DktrKranz> as version, you could use 0.0.20080102-2.1build1.1 (and build2 in jaunty, I guess it's affected too)
<fabrice_sp> It would have been my next question ;-) Thanks
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, when ready, feel free to ping me for sponsoring
<fabrice_sp> great! thanks ;-)
<geser> fabrice_sp: yes, I'm here
<sebner> geser: I just want to warn you that you will be mentioned as one of my major sponsors for my MOTU Application (which I'll send *this* week) :P
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> hoy NCommander!
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I need your two cents on a bug
<DktrKranz> fire t
<DktrKranz> *it
<NCommander> #286175
<NCommander> ...
<fabrice_sp> geser: too late :-) I was just looking for the reason why you named the last version of openmovieeditor 0.0.20080102-2.1build1, but since then, I understood it. Thanks for showing
<NCommander> Bug #286175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286175 in fontconfig "evince crashed with SIGSEGV in FcConfigSubstituteWithPat()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286175
<NCommander> There we go
<NCommander> DktrKranz, can you reproduce, and add your two cents
<DktrKranz> NCommander, need SRU ACK?
<NCommander> Not yet
<DktrKranz> fontconfig is in main, so I can not help for that, thouth
<NCommander> We can try and patch the affected applications (so far OOo, evince, and firefox (maybe), although evince and FF are probably bombing out due to pango)
<DktrKranz> ah... the EVIL bug :)
<ScottK> RainCT: Konsole in KDE4 does that automatically (re your last blog post).
<RainCT> ScottK: can windows be split?
<ScottK> RainCT: Yes.
<ScottK> RIght/Left or Top/Bottom.  Your choice.
<RainCT> ScottK: cool, I may try KDE4 out once I get a laptop
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, while preparing the SRU, please provide a good test case to reproduce the issue.
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz: I've just uploaded the package to my ppa, to be sure to reproduce exactly the issue before, and check the correction after
<DktrKranz> NCommander, tried to reproduce it, but it worked here. I "upgraded" to jaunty, though.
<gouki> Guys ... Something I'm trying to package is license under GPL2, but the author added a new file with LICENSE.HYDRA and wrote quite a few things there. How does this reflect to the package?
<afflux> Is there any special steps to be taken for an intrepid SRU at the moment?
<afflux> s/is/are/g
<gouki> When submitting a bug about a new package (needs packaging), one should file it against Ubuntu and Debian or submit it too on debian bts?
<ScottK> Only submit a Debian ITP bug if you intend to get it into Debian too (this is a good idea and highly recommended).
<directhex> much much preferred. improving debian is a much better cause than improving ubuntu. with at least as much benefit
<gouki> ScottK, thanks. ITP is done via their BTS, right?
<ScottK> gouki: Yes.
<gouki> OK
<james_w> gouki: the wnpp package to be exact
<gouki> james_w, thank you.
<gouki> After submitting an ITP, and when creating the bug on LP, one should point to the bug number on Debian BTS. Correct?
<ScottK> If you use reportbug (the Ubuntu one needs to be told to send to Debian, see man reportbug) it'll help you with all the specifics of an ITP.
<ScottK> Yes.
<gouki> ScottK, yes, I'm thinking about using reportbug. Thank you, I'll look into the manual.
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz: sru part filed for bug #283762
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283762 in openmovieeditor "Does not recognize unstripped video packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283762
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, thanks. I'll have a look at it later or tomorrow evening at last. If nothing happens, ping me again: I tend to forget things ;)
<fabrice_sp> ok. thanks!
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, get ready to upload a rebuild for jaunty too when archive opens (unless autosync happens)
<pochu> jibel: hi :) JFYI, we support upgrades of dbg packages
<pochu> jibel: (as they are in the archive, and we support everything in the archive)
<james_w> pochu: hey, is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=500468 fixed?
<ubottu> Debian bug 500468 in anjuta "anjuta is unusable in unstable," [Grave,Open]
<james_w> pochu: it appears you didn't main -done, so it wasn't closed, but your Version: pseudo-header suggests you meant it to be
<jibel> pochu: Hi, I've seen your comment. I'm sorry about this mistake.
<pochu> jibel: np :) thanks for triaging bugs ;)
<pochu> james_w: hey, looking at it
<pochu> james_w: yeah, it should. let me check it anyway
<james_w> thanks pochu
<jibel> pochu: you're welcome.Thank you for maintaining packages ;)
<pochu> james_w: yes, it's fixed. I'm properly closing the bug now, thanks for letting me know :)
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, done.
 * DktrKranz points to http://hattory.no-ip.info/sru/, it shows intrepid tasks too, waiting for ubuntuwire's to be updates
<wgrant> Erm, UbuntuWire's *does* show Intrepid tasks.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-04
<ScottK> jdong: I just tested installing into an Etch chroot from etch-backports and it pulled dependencies from backports like you would want.
<ScottK> So I think replicating the backports.org approach has potential.
<coppro> what is that approach?
<ScottK> coppro: Pin the backports repo to a lower priority than the main one http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions
<coppro> but then you manually have to do that
<coppro> for every dependency
<ScottK> coppro: That's the thing is you don't.
<ScottK> If it can only satisfy the dependency from the lower priority repo, it'll pull it from there.
<coppro> oh, I see
<coppro> do you need mutt for that?
<ScottK> No.  That's just an example.
<coppro> oh
<coppro> so pinning the backports repo definitely seems good then
<ScottK> Seems to me.
<jdong> ScottK: yeah I gave it some thought over the night and think that pinning is probably our best bet
<ScottK> We mostly need good U/I for it.
<jdong> forgive the 2AM grouchy jdong who wanted a more hairy solution that got everything right :)
<jdong> maybe at 2AM I should start writing dbus and hal
<jdong> oops did I say that aloud?
<coppro> yikes, scary netsplit
<ScottK> Speaking of which, can you fix it so the print screen key fires up Ksnapshot again?  That's be really cool.
<ScottK> jdong: ^^
<jdong> ScottK: I'll look into that when I have some time and dig out a keyboard with a printscreen key :)
<jdong> wouldn't be surprised if it got mangled by the big xmodmap file of DOOOOOM
<ScottK> Dunno.  It worked in KDE3, but not KDE4
<superm1> ScottK, jdong, dont use xmodmap to fix the problem... the equivalent to gnome-settings-daemon should just make sure it's listening for the (correct) standard keycode
 * wgrant would like to know what that equivalent is.
<jdong> superm1: that's my point :)
<jdong> superm1: the point is there's no equivalent AFAICT
<jdong> QT4 looks *HORRIBLY* broken
<jdong> first off, listening to all key events doesn't even capture the brightness keys XFMonBrightness{Up,Down}
<jdong> so kubuntu xmodmaps them into XF86Launch4 and XF86Launch5
<jdong> which are, oddly enough, QT::Key_Launch6 and QT::KEy_Launch7
<jdong> (??)
<wgrant> Ha ha ha.
<wgrant> KDE loses.
<jdong> and you can guess where this road of hackjobs leads :)
<wgrant> I'm glad I don't have to care about KDE. g-s-d is bad enough.
<jdong> I'm gonna dig into qt4-x11 later this week{end}
<jdong> gonna see why on earth this is the case
<jdong> fun trivia fact: Converting the hex keysym for XFBrightnessUp using QT4 to a string calls it "Meta+(unicode mystery block)"
<jdong> :)
<wgrant> Oh good.
<jdong> and registering that KeyEvent is as good as registering text message alerts for the Dow Jones going up these days :)
<jdong> but it's gotten me intrigued enough that I've gotta fix it :)
<pangloss> nhandler: any luck?
<nhandler> pangloss: I'll try now. I've been pretty busy today
<pangloss> nhandler: no rush if you are busy, I have alot of work to do as well so I wont be doing any ubuntu stuff tonight
<jdong> Tip #5999 of bug reporting: Try to collect your thoughts for at least 5 minutes before adding a comment. This isn't twitter.
<jdong> watch, now I jinxed it and there'll be stream-of-consciousness bug reporting in edge.launchpad when I wake up tomorrow. Maybe with bzr somehow integrated.
<nhandler> Don't you mean identi.ca jdong ;)
<jdong> LP needs a "You already opened your mouth within the past hour. Wait before posting again"
<ScottK> nhandler: No.  We're talking LP, not Free software.
<ScottK> Actually never mind, identi.ca isn't FOSS either.
<nhandler> ScottK: I thought identi.ca was meant to be FOSS
 * nhandler goes to re-read the info on their site
<ScottK> nhandler: Depends on if you think AGPL is a Free license.  I really don't think it is.
<jdong> I think the term is Less Unfree (aka AGPL)
<jdong> ack ScottK beat me to the punch.
<nhandler> jdong: Less Unfree is a good way of putting it.
<jdong> or "Free or I'll sue you" :)
<ScottK> Personally I'm less likely to base work I'm doing on AGPL than a license that allows modification, but doesn't require redistribution.
<wgrant> I hope LP doesn't go AGPL, but sabdfl suggests it will be...
<lifeless> I think AGPL makes a lot of sense for service code
<wgrant> lifeless: Yes, but many feel it is less than Free.
<jdong> it sure sounds like LP is going full-swing in the opposite direction in terms of closedness
<lifeless> GPL isn't free
<wgrant> It does make sense.
<lifeless> GPL is specifically unfree to ensure access to the code transitively across all users
<coppro> gpl is free
<lifeless> coppro: puhlease. You can't make proprietary forks of GPL code. So there are things you are not free to do.
<lifeless> coppro: BSD is more 'free' from this angle, and public domain is maximally free
<lifeless> but BSD and public domain don't enforce a ecosystem
<lifeless> so they are less useful IMO
<wgrant> AGPL might be less bad if it were less ambiguous.
<coppro> they are free by the FSF's definition of free
<coppro> feel free to take it up with them
<wgrant> It doesn't define what degree of interaction with the user is required.
<lifeless> coppro: the prelude of the GPL states that they deny certain rights in the greater good
<lifeless> coppro: so please don't invoke greater authority that backs up my point!
<wgrant> lifeless: Do I need to distribute AGPL source to those users to whom I serve 403s?
<coppro> wgrant: I think so
<coppro> try #gnu though
<lifeless> wgrant: thats a really interesting point
<lifeless> wgrant: spirit-wise I would say no, resoundingly.
<wgrant> lifeless: But to the letter, I think I'd have to drop all packets from users to whom I didn't want to give source.
<lifeless> because permission-denied is for someone thats not a use
<lifeless> *user*
<wgrant> Even if they couldn't use more than the access-control bit of the webapp.
<lifeless> I'm just checking
<coppro> but only if the 403 is generated by the webapp I think
<coppro> if the 403 isn't served by the app, then you don't
<wgrant> Of course.
<jdong> your webapp can't generate 403 messages without giving away source? :)
<lifeless> "all users interacting with it remotely "
<lifeless> if you deny a hacker access, I think they are clearly not a user
<lifeless> AGPL v3 section 13
<jdong> well now there's a vague/grey definition of "user"
<wgrant> I interacted with your authorisation machinery.
<wgrant> Give me your code.
<coppro> they are interacting with it
<lifeless> depends on the definition of user
<coppro> wgrant: can you not write authorization code that passes the user on to the GPL code?
<jdong> I got past your ACL once. give me your code.
<jdong> coppro: isn't that linking a GPL app with an AGPL app?
<coppro> jdong: you don't need to link
<jdong> coppro: oh come on now you are playing on the definition of link to a strict technical definition
<lifeless> anyhow, I think its fine to deny someone access via an ACL and not offer them source; they haven't become a user at that point
<lifeless> user isn't defined in the GPL though
<jdong> coppro: this is the SAME problem with, saying, popen()'ing to ffmpeg from a proprietary application and saying "I'm not linking to libavcodec"
<wgrant> While I agree that something like AGPL makes a lot of sense for LP, I don't think the license is good.
<jdong> wgrant: +1
<jdong> I like the idea but the implementation looks troublesome
<jdong> I support the spirit, but I don't know if I want to adopt the license for a substantial work or not
<wgrant> lifeless: What if I release my authorisation machinery under the AGPL?
<wgrant> I guess that's not exactly directly interacting with somebody over the network.
<coppro> jdong: I would say it's different; the code doesn't even need to interact with each other
<coppro> do an HTTP redirect or something
<jdong> coppro: your authorization mechanism doens't need to interact at all with the site it's authorizing?
<lifeless> wgrant: the phrasing is 'user interacting' not 'machine interacting' or 'human interacting'
<jdong> what's your username?
<wgrant> coppro: I can only do that once my hypothetical authorisation machinery is executed and tells the user to go away.
<wgrant> lifeless: Is 'user' defined anywhere?
<coppro> jdong: well, what I'm saying is, is the authorization machinery related to the site
<lifeless> wgrant: no
<wgrant> Sigh.
<lifeless> wgrant: I quoted the entire relevant text
<jdong> coppro: what authorization machinery ISN'T related to the site?
<coppro> e.g. does the application need to provide auth services, or can they be managed separately
<jdong> coppro: the application needs to at least get the user's id or profile from the authorization service.
<wgrant> Say I grab a copy of LP, and restrict access to some team, and disable registration.
<jdong> coppro: and that would be interacting with it
<coppro> you could used a shared database
<coppro> which isn't linking
<jdong> coppro: that makes no sense.
<lifeless> wgrant: arguing that a http request which is 403'd with no other content (than the error page) shown is a 'user interaction' would strongly depend on the rest of the site
<coppro> why not?
<jdong> coppro: user "foo" authenticates now goes into the site
<jdong> coppro: how do I know who he is?
<coppro> have the auth code check the DB from the site
<coppro> cookie
<lifeless> wgrant: if there is any anonymous access, then the 403 discussion is irrelevant, they can get the code from the 'please log in' page
<jdong> coppro: how can you set a cookie?
<jdong> coppro: now you're abusing cookies like a communications pipe
<coppro> of course
<jdong> that's really nothing more than circumventing a license.
<coppro> yeah, I guess
<jdong> and I thought v3 of the GPL was supposed to be designed to be resistant against these silly technicality tricks?
<lifeless> wgrant: otherwise, if all interactions until logged in get a 403 challenge, I would argue they are not interacting with it
<coppro> wait, wgrant, are you deciding to put a project under AGPL, or trying to use an existing one
<lifeless> wgrant: they are trying to *start* interacting
<wgrant> lifeless: They are using my authorisation machinery in order to get their 403.
<lifeless> btw, I thought we wanted folk to have a valid real name in ubuntu channels
<wgrant> lifeless: Only launchpad-beta-testers ever required that, and even that was dropped months ago.
<lifeless> wgrant: but they aren't a user at that point;
<wgrant> lifeless: How do you know? The license doesn't say.
<lifeless> wgrant: I'm arguing a point of view
<coppro> wgrant: are we discussing applying AGPL to LP?
<coppro> or what?
<wgrant> coppro: That's where this started, but I suspect that this is the failings of the AGPL in general.
<coppro> wgrant: well, you can always write an exception in
<jdong> a point of view is good, the spirit and ideology is good, but I'm not convinced any of these would be helpful if I had to , say, deal with a legal battle regarding the AGPL and my code.
<jdong> coppro: then it's no longer AGPL compatible.
<ethana2> Greetings all.  I filed a bug on window-picker-applet by Canonical, and the bug was fixed
<ethana2> The i386 Canonical build failed however
<wgrant> Canonical?
<wgrant> What does this have to do with Canonical?
<ethana2> I was wondering what I'd have to do to contribute an i386 build of this applet
<ethana2> they made it
<lifeless> I would seek clarification vis-a-vis authenticated services from the fsf; as far as LP goes, the site has anonymous access, so the entire 403 discussion is irrelevant
<jdong> ethana2: no, Ubuntu developers made it
<ethana2> it started as part of ubuntu-netbook
<jdong> ethana2: and we do not take contributed binary builds
<jdong> ethana2: can you link to the failed build, bug, etc?
<ethana2> interesting
<ethana2> ah, i'll try
<wgrant> lifeless: Canonical's Launchpad instance does. My hypothetical one does not.
<ethana2> https://edge.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/+archive  shows it near the bottom
<ethana2> the red 'x' with 'i386' next to it in blue
<coppro> jdong: my general rule when writing a modification would be to allow the exception to be removed, leaving it compatible. But you're right that it doesn't solve the overall problem
<ethana2> ok, https://edge.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/+archive/+build/750906
<ethana2> https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Enetbook-remix-team/+archive/+build/750906/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.window-picker-applet_0.4.5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jdong> checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files!
<ScottK> me is back.
<jdong> err, either timestamps are funky on the file you uploaded, or time is funky on the server.
<wgrant> Hi ScottK.
<jdong> I would have to guess the former
<ethana2> I didn't upload anything
<jdong> whoever uploaded it, then
<ethana2> Hmm, ok
<ScottK> Since AGPL is not DFSG Free, it's non-free.
<jdong> considering it built on all other arches....
<jdong> ethana2: have you tried asking for them to do a rebuild?
<coppro> ScottK: DFSG Free?
<jdong> ethana2: whoever has admin acceess to that PPA
<ethana2> How do I go about..
<ethana2> ok
<Hobbsee> or me
<ScottK> coppro: Debian Free Software Guidelines.
<ethana2> so I file a bug asking for a rebuild of 4.5 for i386 fixing timestamps in some file
<coppro> ah
<ethana2> ..right?
<Hobbsee> ethana2: no, i just cued ti for a rebuild.
<wgrant> ethana2: No, that's not right at all. You find a team member, or ask Hobbsee.
<jdong> ethana2: well yeah, contact anyone on the netbook-remix-team
<jdong> ethana2: they have a button that magically attempts a rebuild
<ethana2> ..but unless the time stamps are fixed, it'll just fail again, right?
<ethana2> Hobbsee: do packages often fail to build once, but then just work the second time?
<wgrant> The Xen instance might have had a bogus timestamp.
<wgrant> Er, bogus clock.
<jdong> Hobbsee: just curious, so buildd-admins apply to PPAs too?
<Hobbsee> jdong: oh yes.
<wgrant> Given that the others succeeded.
<jdong> ethana2: not *often* but sometimes
<jdong> wgrant: could be timing
<Hobbsee> ethana2: depends what the build failure is
<lifeless> ScottK: how is it not DFSG free?
<ethana2> interesting
<jdong> wgrant: i.e. clock off by 10 minutes on uploader; build queue time
<ScottK> lifeless: It requires redistribution.  Fails the desert island test.
<wgrant> jdong: Hmm, indeed.
<lifeless> ScottK: no it doesn't
<wgrant> ScottK: Nobody is accessing it if I'm on a desert island.
<jdong> wgrant: (of course considering how these new tickless kernel things keep time like a clock with a dead battery....)
<lifeless> ScottK: it requires distribution to folk that use it only
<Hobbsee> holy, <expletive lists>
<wgrant> Hobbsee: What?
<ethana2> fascinating, thanks, Hobbsee
<ethana2> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/samarium   I've never seen how this was done before
<Hobbsee> oh, there we go, w-p-a has been taken.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Lots of i386 builds?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: somehow the buildds have managed to get up to a queue of 858 on i386!
<wgrant> langpacks.
<wgrant> Lots of langpacks.
<Hobbsee> ah, so it is langpacks.  I thought there weren't that many
<wgrant> Could be a couple of releases worth, I suppose.
<Hobbsee> that's true
<wgrant> Wait, but langpack exports aren't meant to be running until 2.1.11, are they?
<Hobbsee> i'm used to seeing them at 0, or a very small number
<ethana2> oh hey, cody-somerville_ :)
<ethana2> .....or not....
<lifeless> ScottK: (which is to say it has exactly the same requirements as regular GPL, modified to the more general 'use' made of web services)
<gouki> On the License part of debian/copyright, is it OK to point to the license instead of pasting it?
<ScottK> lifeless: Not at all.  It forces redistridution.
<lifeless> ScottK: ok, lets get details here. Do you mean section 13?
 * ScottK has to go look it up.
<lifeless> do so
<lifeless> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html
<lifeless> remember that the desert island test is (paraphrased) 'can I use this software legally on a desert island with no network to the world'
<lifeless> AGPL passes that test
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I disagree.
<lifeless> how does it fail - give me a use case
<ScottK> You can't if you've modified it.
<lifeless> I'm on an island with my laptop
<lifeless> I have a webapp - 'helloweb' which is GPL
<lifeless> on my laptop
<lifeless> I change the text it shows, run the app, point ff at 127.0.0.1:8080
<lifeless> how am I breaking the AGPL at this point
<wgrant> I have to agree with lifeless here.
<wgrant> Nobody else is accessing it, so nobody else has the right to get to the code
<ScottK> I guess.
<lifeless> there is a 'get code' link on that page, if I click that it gives me the live webapp code
<lifeless> because thats what the thing is meant to do
<lifeless> even if there are other people on the island
<lifeless> if they are able to demand access to the code, they must be in network range of me
<lifeless> its not *at all* like the brain dead licences that say 'must send changes to authors'
<ScottK> You argue it better than mako did when I had this discussion with him.
 * ScottK ponders.
<lifeless> also note that AGPL makes no difference between edited and unedited code- the get source link has to work for the original author as well as downstream sites
<ScottK> True.
<coppro> the original author of GPL or AGPL code with no modifications isn't bound by them always
<ScottK> coppro: Actually he is bound by AGPL, just not only by AGPL.
<lifeless> coppro: once he distributes it kicks in
<wgrant> In any version distributed under the AGPL, the AGPL must be followed.
<wgrant> He can do whatever he wants with it without the link, but can't distribute it as AGPL.
<ScottK> lifeless: OK.  I think it's DFSG in roughly the same way that Firefox's Trademark license is DFSG free.
<lifeless> ScottK: hah!. I think its much better than that actually, but unhappy agreement >> disagreement ;)
<lifeless> for now though, -> code to write
<ScottK> Forcing distribution as it does is allowed, but one really ought not to do it.
<lifeless> ScottK: its the moral equivalent of forcing distribution for binaries like 'cat'
<ethana2> Anyone have an idea how long it takes new builds to propagate to launchpad librarian and PPAs?
<wgrant> ethana2: They're in librarian seconds after they finish, and published in the PPA after no more than 20 minutse.
<ethana2> oh, ok, sweet
<ethana2> so half an hour and then check-update
 * ethana2 hugs .bashrc
<ScottK> lifeless: It restricts my ability to make use of my own work.  There's stuff I write and use that I'm unwilling to distribute because it's a special purpose hack.
<lifeless> ScottK: so don't permit network access for other people
<lifeless> ScottK: and voila, you don't have to distribute
<ScottK> Which kind of defeats the point.
<lifeless> ScottK: its entirely contingent on other people using the software
<lifeless> ScottK: which is *precisely* the point of free software
<ScottK> Interact with/Use
<coppro> hmm... reading the DFSG, I don't see any obvious conflicts with the AGPL, but I'm not an expert at this
<ScottK> which is a fundamental difference.
<ScottK> coppro: Upon reflection I think it's OK.
<ScottK> Personally I find it very distasteful and would be very unlikely to make any use of AGPL'ed works in a project of mine.
<ScottK> I can see where it'd be attractive for LP.
<CarlFK> I have been running apt-cacher for years, a week or so ago (few days before ibex release) I started getting invalid signature messages.  I figured maybe my cache had gotten messed up, and installed apt-proxy on a 2nd box.  that wokred fine until today, when I got "Invalid signature" -
<CarlFK> did something in repo land change that may be causing this?  todays apt-get error: http://dpaste.com/88601/
<CarlFK> and where is the right place to post about this?
<coppro> cp333?
<wgrant> CarlFK: I've seen at least two other people with the problem recently.
<coppro> perhaps the mirror is dying
<CarlFK> cp333 is my local box
<coppro> oh
<coppro> hmm
<coppro> I don't get that issue
 * StevenK calls his local mirror 'silver'
<CarlFK> wgrant: using a cache, or hitting a real mirror?
<lifeless> hi ho ?
<StevenK> Because mirrors used to be made with it
<wgrant> CarlFK: Using apt-cacher.
<wgrant> StevenK: Nice, nice.
<CarlFK> wgrant: thanks. I'll stop trying to debug my box :)
<wgrant> CarlFK: No, keep going, I don't think anybody has worked out why it happens yet.
<coppro> ScottK: well, an example of where I'd expect the AGPL to be useful is something like phpBB.
<CarlFK> wgrant: well... um... my plan was to nuke the cache and start over :)
<coppro> you want modifiers to have to release source if they let people use it
<CarlFK> wgrant: any sugestions on what to do to debug ?
<wgrant> CarlFK: No idea.
<CarlFK> welp... just re-ran the command, worked fine.
<StevenK> CarlFK: Nuke the release files
<StevenK> apt-cacher is ... thpecial
<wgrant> None of apt-{proxy,cache{,-ng}} seem to work reliably.
<wgrant> s/cache/cacher/
<StevenK> And mirroring solutions like debmirror and apt-mirror have their own problems
<CarlFK> why did apt-get update say: Hit http://cp600 sid Release.gpg
<StevenK> debmirror is dumb as a post, and will happily delete 30GB at a pinch
<CarlFK> wait... I may have a sid in my sources.list...
<StevenK> CarlFK: Because sid appears in your sources.list?
<wgrant> StevenK: I was mildly displeased when Hardy's debmirror ate my entire mirror due to a bug.
<CarlFK> yep: www.debian-multimedia.org sid main
<StevenK> wgrant: \o/
<wgrant> I had 4 releases. That would have taken like 4 months of off-peak to fix.
<wgrant> So now I use apt-cacher, and hit it when it breaks.
<StevenK> wgrant: I managed to avoid that issue. I dumped debmirror, and moved to apt-mirror, since I was sick of the 100-odd line wrapper I had around debmirror
<wgrant> StevenK: apt-mirror takes something not unlike a sources.list, doesn't it?
<StevenK> wgrant: I can paste my list if you wish
<ScottK> coppro: I'd find AGPL useful if I'd written some web service thingy and wanted to make sure no one added stuff to it that I couldn't get access to.
<StevenK> wgrant: But it's roughly like it
<wgrant> ScottK: Which is precisely what LP needs.
<wgrant> But such a license has large issues in practise.
<ScottK> wgrant: needs/wants, but sure.
<wgrant> ScottK: Oops, true.
<ScottK> As a practical matter I think it just discourages other people from caring about extending your software.
<ScottK> Which might well be considered a feature in this case.
<wgrant> It wouldn't surprise me.
<gouki> After Intrepid, all 'Recommends' get installed, correct?
<Hobbsee> yes
<gouki> Thank you.
<ethana2> oh, blast, that build had another bug of the same magnitude that makes it unusable also
 * ethana2 files
<wgrant> ethana2: Do not file bugs against PPA packages.
<ethana2> oh
<ethana2> ok
<StevenK> Netbook Remix has a bug tracker
<StevenK> There's a netbook-remix project in LP
<ethana2> i'm on netbook remix's thing
<ethana2> code.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/wind..
<ethana2> ...so I can file a bug there, right?
<Hobbsee> no, that's a team.
<Hobbsee> that'snot the project.
<Hobbsee> you can't file bugs against people or teams
<StevenK> Pity
<Hobbsee> i know!
<gouki> hehe
<StevenK> ethana2: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/netbook-remix
<ScottK> Grump here wonders if that's OT for MOTU anyway.
<ScottK> Grump/Grumpy
<StevenK> It is
<ScottK> Grumpy and can't type.
<StevenK> Is the latter the reason for the former?
<ScottK> Nope.
<ethana2> bookmarked bug submission page, refreshing X session to verify that this is indeed a bug
<jdong> bug 293431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293431 in transmission "transmission needs to decimal information for large torrents" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293431
<jdong> you've got to be joking me.
<jdong> THE WORLD WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE IF YOU STOPPED STARING AT THE PROGRESS BAR
<StevenK> It needs to what now?
<jdong> StevenK: the progress bar for torrents needs to have more sig figs
<jdong> "When a user (i.e. me) is downloading large torrents (between 4 GIB - 8
<jdong> GIB) the percentage increase between each percentage takes a long time.
<jdong> (say from 1 to 2%) . Somewhere down the line I hope it can be made more
<jdong> verbose so it shows instead of 1% to something like 1.05 % and so on &
<jdong> so forth, so the user knows how much the torrent is moving along."
<StevenK> Um. It des
<jdong> ack crappy paste
<StevenK> jdong: BAD JDONG
<StevenK> jdong: It does
<jdong> that's a firefox bug
<StevenK> jdong: It shows 3 significant figures
<jdong> StevenK: that's what I thought.
<StevenK> jdong: I'll kick off a large torrent, and screenshot, and nail the bug shut
<Hobbsee> oh, that was shirish.
<StevenK> Well, it did the last time I ran Transmission, which was Hardy
<Hobbsee> that explains all.  I thought it looked a bit strange.
<jdong> StevenK: it does here too
<jdong> what the hell?
<jdong> he submitted a bug 1 hour ago
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Won't display info)
<jdong> and makred it incorrect?
<jdong> oh shut up stupid ubottu
<StevenK> Now now, jdong
<Hobbsee> !jdong
<ubottu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<StevenK> jdong: Screenshot attached
<superm1> would querying DEBIAN_FRONTEND env variable from within a postinst be a reliable way to determine if being ran from a noninteractive frontend?
<StevenK> Is there a sensible default instead?
<superm1> well in this particular case i'm trying to avoid copying in an update-notifer note if it's ran from noninteractive
<StevenK> Why?
<superm1> well long story short, this note is created when a mysql server isn't contactable during postinst.  well during a squashfs build for live disks, you dont exactly have a mysql server
<StevenK> Ignore it, and get livecd-rootfs to empty the update-notifer directory before it makes the squashfs?
<superm1> well isn't it possible that there are valid notes though that you'd want livecd-rootfs to keep?
<StevenK> Actually, I think it gets masked by a tmpfs ...
<superm1> well mind you - i'm just porting all of the mythbuntu live cd creator code, and this was an old hack that we used to remove it, so i'm trying to remove as many old hacks as possible before making the switch over to livecd-rootfs
<superm1> according to livecd.sh in trunk of livecd-rootfs:
<superm1>     # Removing update-notifier notes is now considered harmful:
<superm1>     #rm -f ${ROOT}var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/*
<StevenK> Then ignore it
<superm1> well my original proposed solution would appear to work if i read the debconf data from debconf/frontend
<superm1> i'm just rather wary doing that still
<dholbach> good morning
<gouki> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi gouki, hi warp10
<warp10> morning dholbach!
<lukehasnoname> Does Ubuntu grab all its universe packages from debian-unstable every release, then Ubuntu-ize them as necessary?
<soren> lukehasnoname: Something like that, yes.
<lukehasnoname> alright. There was some discussion on whether we still import from Debian on another chat.
<Yasumoto> lukehasnoname: if that's the question, then yes, we definitely still do syncs (do a straight pull from debian) and merges (debian + ubuntu changes to a package) from the debian repos
<iulian> G'morning.
<emgent> morning
<stefanlsd> whats the syntax for closing multiple bugs in the changelog?
<persia> stefanlsd, The same as for one bug, only multiple times :)
<stefanlsd> (LP: #12345) (LP: #12346) (LP: #12346)     kinda thing?
<persia> Generally you don't want to do it like that.  I'll prep a paste.
<stefanlsd> persia: thanks!
<persia> Bother.  My browser crashed whilst I was composing the example.  Here's a real one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/67185/
<persia> Note that there is a separate note for each bug fixed.
<persia> So, that closes three bugs, but when someone reads it, they can understand what is closed, and why.  It's much more useful than just listing bug numbers.
<stefanlsd> persia: yeah, i normally do that, in this case though, im doing an SRU and one fix is closing 2 bugs, and i wanted to add the SRU bug as well. so essentially same fix closes 3.
<persia> stefanlsd, Are the bugs not duplicates then, if they are being closed by the same fix?
<persia> And shouldn't you use the original bug for SRU processing, so that the reporter and subscribers can see it's being fixed?
<stefanlsd> persia: I suppose they would be duplicates if its the same fix. Very different description's though as its an apparmor profile issue that would affect many different packages.
<stefanlsd> persia: wrt to the bug number - from the SRU wiki page:   "Also be sure to reference the SRU bug number in the changelog using the 'LP: #NNNNNN' convention."
<persia> stefanlsd, Sure.  Just because the reporters described it differently doesn't mean it's not the same bug, as long as it has the same (small) fix.
<stefanlsd> persia: kk. thanks. marked it as a dup. Will LP mark all dupes of a bug as fixed released when published?
<persia> As an example, consider "crashes on launch" and "pulseaudio connection issues".  Depending on the reporters, these could be the same bug.
<wgrant> Hmm. I wonder if SiS does the bug closing magic.
<persia> I think LP just ignores the dupes, but the users will be notified.
<wgrant> Probably not.
<sbeattie> wgrant: I think that's a known bug, that it does not.
<wgrant> It also seems to break update-manager's changelog handling.
<persia> stefanlsd, Right.  Reference the SRU bug.  In this case, the SRU bug is the master bug you're fixing (or at least the appropriate release task for that bug)
<sbeattie> If I recall my conversation with kees correctly.
<sbeattie> stefanlsd: an apparmor SRU will probably want to fix bug 271252 as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271252 in apparmor "aa-logprof generates faulty output messages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271252
<stefanlsd> persia: ok. thanks. maybe that was a little unclear. Can i amend that line to read something like - "Also be sure to reference the original bug number in the changelog that this SRU is addressing using the 'LP: #NNNNNN' convention."
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: thanks. will take a look at that
<persia> stefanlsd, I'm not someone who can authorise that.  If you feel you can authorise yourself to do it, go ahead.  If you're not feeling sufficiently self-confident, speak with a member of MOTU SRU.
<stefanlsd> persia: kk. thanks. will get some input to ensure its correct.
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: has an upstream bug been logged about the apparmor syslog parsing issue?
<sbeattie> stefanlsd: I'm not aware of one.
<huats> morning everyone !
<lukehasnoname> hi
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: looks like it could be this - https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=304491
<ubottu> bugzilla.novell.com bug 304491 in AppArmor "profile tools don't work with syslog messages" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<slytherin> Does anyone know when is MoM likely to catch up with packages in jaunty?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: sometime after the archive is open for general uploads?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: what do you mean by general uploads?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: things that are not part of the toolchain.
<Hobbsee> there will be a mail to u-d-a about it
<slytherin> ok
<sbeattie> stefanlsd: no, https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=304491 is not the same; at the time that bug was filed, it didn't work against syslog at all.
<ubottu> bugzilla.novell.com bug 304491 in AppArmor "profile tools don't work with syslog messages" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<Hobbsee> besides, MoM looks updated.
<Hobbsee> at least main is
<sbeattie> stefanlsd:  bug 271252 is different; it's due to the way the kernel passes audit messages to syslog changing its format slightly sometime between 2.6.24 and 2.6.27
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271252 in apparmor "aa-logprof generates faulty output messages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271252
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: aah ok. thanks. would you be able to open an upstream bug re this bug?
<sbeattie> stefanlsd: yeah, much as I can't stand novell's bugzilla.
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: hehe. kk. thanks. also, we can include the patch by Jesse Michael to get it 'vetted' by upstream
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I was looking at packages in universe and they don't seem to be updated. I will take another look.
<persia> slytherin, Also note that Debian is fairly frozen : there haven't been many updates.  50 or so bugs to go.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> (note that fixing Debian RC bugs means fresh updates from Debian earlier in the Jaunty cycle, which makes for less scramble later)
<Hobbsee> slytherin: i didn't really check universe.  It may be that they want to do main first.
<persia> I'm not sure even main is working properly : see recent traffic in -devel
<ido_> hello.
<persia> welcome ido_
<ido_> i would like to help fixing bugs, and would like someone to guide me on how to start]
<ido_> other then pointing me to the long long wiki,
<persia> The shorter wiki starting page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing :)
<tbielawa> :)
<tbielawa> It's a great read to get you on your way
<persia> Basically, find a bug (there are lots in LP).  Fix it.  Submit a patch (preferably as a debdiff).  Ask here if you have questions.
<ido_> I've already found a bug I want to fix. seems a simple one.
<persia> Which bug?
<ido_> I don't know how to get the sources though
<ido_> well, I'm not sure its listed on launchpad, searching now
<ido_> in the gnome-netstatus-applet about page, it shows a close button which doesn't close. only Esc closes the applet
<persia> Well, first step is to get it in Launchpad, and assign yourself.
<sbeattie> stefanlsd: filed and attached
<stefanlsd> sbeattie: great thanks! just need to link up the report.
<persia> Next step is to download the sources (apt-get source gnome-netstatus-applet), and prepare a patch.  The section in the wiki on patch systems is worth a read.
<ido_> the but was already filed by someone
<ido_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-netstatus/+bug/289649
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289649 in gnome-netstatus "Gnome-netstatus-applet about box not closing properly" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<ido_> how do I tell if its assigned to anyone ?
<persia> If it's assigned to someone, their name appears under "Assigned to".  This one appears to be assigned to the "Ubuntu Desktop Bugs" team.  Usually we discourage bug assignment to teams, but some teams prefer to work that way.
<ido_> apt-get source doesnt work
<persia> I'd recommend asking in #ubuntu-desktop about that one.
<persia> Why doesn't apt-get source work?
<ido_> oh. it did.
<persia> heh
<ido_> lemme paste it, and you tell me if its ok
<persia> In a pastebin please :)
<ido_> http://www.pastebin.ca/1244698
<ido_> ofcourse..
<jfcgauss_> what is linux-backports-modules package? how does it differ from linux-restricted-modules and linux-ubuntu-modules packages? is it recommended to install that as well?
<persia> jfcgauss_, For the last question, I'll suggest #ubuntu.  For the first question, it's backported modules from the upstream mainline : they may break things, and they may be better : no guarantees.  It's roughly like linux-ubuntu-modules.
<ido_> persia, did you check it ? and also, where are the sources downloaded to
<persia> Sources download to the current directory.
<persia> You probably want to install devscripts
<ido_> oh. ok. will get that.
<ido_> is there a log for what I manually install via apt-get ?
<persia> /var/log/dpkg.log
<ido_> I'm new to ubuntu
<persia> ido_, By the way, there's a patch for that bug in the GNOME bugtracker, posted by a member of the Desktop Bug team in March 2005.  You definitely want to chat with pedro about it.
<persia> (as there's probably some reason the patch hasn't been applied)
<ido_> well, even if I don't submit it, it'll be good practice for a first time thingy
<ido_> ok, after downloading the sources
<ido_> i need to first build it to see it works, right ?
<ido_> ./configure && make ?
<ido_> or do ubuntu packages need anything else ?
<persia> Packages use debian/rules to determine how to build.  The recommended practice is to build it in a sanitised environment.
<persia> !sbuild
<ubottu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ido_> ugh. Sbuild or PBuilder then ?
<persia> `sudo apt-get build-dep gnome-netstatus-applet && debuild -b`might also work, but it will install all the dev libraries on your system, and then compile against your system, which may not be what you want.
<ido_> no, i prefer not to do that
<ido_> lots of packages to install which I will not need later on
<ido_> Sbuilder is not an  option since i dont have a space 5gb for LVM
<jfcgauss_> hi. i've noticed a proprietary driver named "wl" with little description under Xubuntu>System>Hardware Drivers. does anyone know what that is?
<soren> wifi driver.
<jfcgauss_> i also have a broadcom driver for wireless, but what is wl really for?
<soren> Certain broadcom wifi adapters.
<ido_> hrm. after doingi a pbuilder build *.dsc, what now ?
<ido_> persia ?
 * persia doesn't use pbuilder, and hopes someone else can help ido
<ido_> oh. any other pbuilder users out there ?
<james_w> look in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<stefanlsd> ido_: pbuilder will put the resulting .deb in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<stefanlsd> heh
<stefanlsd> :)
<ido_> hrm. result of the build from the sources it downloaded
<ido_> and if i want to change the sources now and rebuild them ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: pbuilder will build the .deb file, which is now the binaries.  you still have the sources you downloaded. so you need to modify those, run debuild again, and then pbuilder.
<ido_> where do the sources exist though ?
<ido_> i only see the .gz
<stefanlsd> ido_: you downloaded them with apt-get source   ?
<ido_> yes, into my home dir
<ido_> and the did a pbuilder build
<stefanlsd> ido_: pbuilder will build a .deb from a .dsc - which uses the .orig.tar.gz and the .diff.gz file.
<ido_> right..
<stefanlsd> ido_: debuild will build the .dsc for you.
<stefanlsd> ido_: the resultant .deb file from the pbuilder will be in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<ido_> so now if i want to make changes, i need to make them and run debuild, which builds the ,diff file and .dsc ?
<ido_> and then run pbuilder build .dsc again ?
<ido_> am I correct ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: correct
<ido_> hrm. how do i run debuild ? (and where ? the source package dir ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: from the source directory, i run debuild -S -sa
<ido_> uhm.
<stefanlsd> the -sa may not be necessary
<ido_> complains about not finding a debian/changelog file
<stefanlsd> ido_: are you in the package source directory?  does debian/changelog exist?
<ido_> oh. source tree of package, i syooise
<ido_> s/suppose
<ido_> how do i extract the package then ?
<ido_> can't I do it directly from the sources ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: apt-get source should of extracted package for you...  have a look here - this may explain it better: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<stefanlsd> ido_: also, consider attending the session on Packaging 101 with dholbach later today - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<ido_> ok
<stefanlsd> ido_: There are also some cool you tube videos on it - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Videos
<james_w> I'm still marked as "Contributor" on REVU, how do I change that?
<james_w> aha, can a REVU administrator change that please?
<james_w> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=python-fstab
<james_w> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=screen-resolution-extra
<james_w> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=netbook-remix-launcher
<james_w> ^ those three can be archived as well
<ido_> hrm. any time i work with pbuilder i need to run pbuilder to build it, which extracts base.tgz which takes a really long time..
<soren> That's how pbuilder works. :)
<ido_> can't it leave them extracted ?
<soren> No.
<ido_> ugh that sucks.
<soren> pbuilder doesn't remove all the packages it installs to build your package.
<ido_> so my other option is Sbuilder and work with LVM ?
<soren> ...so if it didn't use a base.tar.gz, it would be no different than a regular chroot.
<soren> That's another option, yes.
<ido_> i think I'm missing something..
<ido_> the whole point of using pbuilder is to have the env chrooted..
<ido_> right ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: a fresh base chroot
<ido_> so can't i manually extract the base.tar.gz somewhere
<ido_> and chroot it
<ido_> and work from there ?
<stefanlsd> ido_: you could do something like that manually, but for each package you install, you want a fresh chroot. hence the extract.
<ido_> well, I'm going to be working only on one package for starters..
<ido_> so i dont mind working with it, i think,.
<stefanlsd> ido_: we want a fresh base chroot, as then we can be sure that the packages we are building are pulling in the correct build and runnign depends
<ido_> true.
<ido_> but if i only want to change a line in the source, doesnt that require me to build everything from scratch ?
<ido_> i mean, the chroot env..
<slytherin> soren: pbuilder removes the packages after build
<ido_> seems impossible to work with..
<slytherin> ido_: what help do you need with pbuilder?
<soren> slytherin: Are you sure? That seems like an awful waste of time.
<slytherin> soren: yes, I am pretty sure. pbuilder is the only build tool I use.
<ido_> well, I not pbuilder in specific, but I'd like to know how I can take a package, work on it in a chroot env, rebuild it after changing it, and at last repacakge it..
<ido_> getting the package source is done with apt-get source
<ido_> pbuider build *.dsc makes the chroot'd env with the correct dependencies for that package
<soren> slytherin: You wouldn't happen to a have a build log from pbuilder handy, would you?
<slytherin> soren: not now. I am in office. :-)
<soren> ido_: Use "pbuilder login" instead, and work from there.
<ido_> but now when i want to change the source, i have to go all over the build *.dsc again, which takes tons of time because it builds all its deps again
<slytherin> ido_: If you want to install all the build dependencies of this package in the chroot you can try this - sudo pbuilder --login --save-after-login
<ido_> oh. and that gives me a shell inside the chrooted env ?
<slytherin> that will let you login inside chroot and then you can install build dependencies. Then quit and you have a modified chroot available.
<ido_> that i can work in
<stefanlsd> ido_: technically speaking, using pbuilder isnt required. that is actually something which happens when you supply the debdiff.  we use pbuilder to ensure that the source package we are building, does actually build and remove properly. it also generates the .deb's for us to actually test if whatever we were fixing was fixed. so its really something we want to be doing
<ido_> I'd like to  use pbuilder so that my working ubuntu env doesnt get garabaged with unneeded -dev packages
<slytherin> ido_: Then outside the chroot, modify the package source, add changelog entry and create new source package. And then pbuilder build *.dsc. Now all teh dependencies are already installed in chroot so it will take less time.
<ido_> hrm. can pbuilder get itiself the required dependencies without deleting them ? (like it does with pbuilder build)
<soren> slytherin: I've looked at a few pbuilder logs now, and I see nothing to suggest that it removes the packages it installed.
<soren> slytherin: Case in point: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11921692/mnemosyne_1.0-0ubuntu1.build
<slytherin> soren: remove as in uninstall from chroot, right?
<soren> slytherin: yes.
<ido_> there's a --preserve-buildplace for pbuilder
<slytherin> soren: perhaps those packages were toolchain packages.
<slytherin> or may be the PPA have some different configuration
<soren> slytherin: The PPA's don't use pbuilder.
<slytherin> soren: I though the file you were referring to was a PPA build log
<soren> slytherin: No.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: if you have an apt-cache, it won't make that much difference anyway - you remove the download time, but it still takes time to install.
<soren> slytherin: It's a pbuilder log attached to a bug.
<Hobbsee> (if that's a help)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I know that already and I share pbuilder cache with the usual apt-cache even to cut down download time.
<Hobbsee> right
<slytherin> Hobbsee: soren is arguing that pbuilder does not uninstall packages after build is finished. I do not have any log handy to prove otherwise.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: why would it uninstall the package after the build has finished?  It removes the entire build directory, last i checked.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: but that doesn't mean that the dependancies get installed in the base tarball
<Hobbsee> (which is what the build directory is based off each time)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Right. That is what I was talking about. The base tarball is not modified. I may be wrong about the details.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: but, why are you recommending making your base pbuilder tarball unclean, and not the standard?  That's a great way of setting yourself up for build failures on the buildds.
<Hobbsee> (with your pbuilder login --save-after-login)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I am not recommending it. I just told him the way he could save time by modifying the base tar.
<slytherin> In fact I am against it.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: well, that certainly *won't* save time when he has to create the base tarball over again to get it back to a clean status.
<ido_> since I'm working on the UMPC, which is rather slow
<slytherin> ido_: Just FYI ... I do not recommend modifying the base tar ball. I am against it. :-)
<ido_> it takes I think around 10 minutes just to build a small package..
<Hobbsee> ah, right, that wasn't very clear above.
<james_w> persia: there are also a couple of old packages from you on REVU, are they still wanted?
<persia> james_w, which packages?
<james_w> pidgin-maemo and moblin-media-browser-plugin
<persia> Those can be archived.  Did someone else archive the rest of them already?  Also, can you not archive?  I thought that was a MOTU grant, rather than requiring an admin.
<StevenK> So did I.
<james_w> as I said above, I'm not a MOTU on REVU yet, so could an admin do that.
<james_w> If I get archive privileges from that then I'll take care of them
<persia> Oh.  I missed what you wanted fixed :)  Let me see if I can figure out how to do it with the latest code.
<james_w> thanks
<Hobbsee> zul: you around?
<persia> james_w, james-w on LP, right?
<james_w> persia: yup
<persia> james_w, Sorry, but I'm getting a SyntaxError from the script :(
<james_w> persia: what's the error?
<persia> Could a REVU Hacker confirm I'm supposed to be running `sudo -u revu1 /srv/revu-production/scripts/alter_user.py -njames-w -l1`
<persia> james_w, "SyntaxError: invalid syntax" on line 35 of alter_user.py (the SQL statement)
<james_w> ah, ouch
<siretart> try -lreviewer
<persia> siretart, same error.
<persia> I remember hearing about some ACL changes, and wonder if this script just didn't get updated.
<siretart> ok. then its broken
<ido_> anyone working with a bluetooth keyboard ?
<zul> Hobbsee: kind of
<porthose> james_w, persia: ï»¿pidgin-maemo and moblin-media-browser-plugin archived :)
<james_w> thanks porthose
<james_w> porthose: care to do some more?
<porthose> sure
<james_w> netbook-remix-launcher screen-resolution-extra python-fstab ubuntu-desktop-testing please
<persia> ido_, I have one.
<persia> porthose, Thanks!  I completely forgot the point of trying to grant james_w access :)
<persia> porthose, On an unrelated note, are you stuck for a solution for the Debian RC ampache bug, or just stuck for time (or am I mismapping?)
<porthose> persia: RC bug fixed and uploaded to debian
 * persia is clearly not watching closely enough :)
<porthose> persia: waiting on RFE
<persia> Heh.  That's the frustrating time :)
<porthose> persia: yea
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cody-somerville> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi cody-somerville
<sportman1280> hello.  If i have a package (Synkron).... how do i go about submitting it for jaunty?  I've been testing it in launchpad's ppa...  But would like to contribute it to the ubuntu compunity
<slytherin> !tell sportman1280 about revu
<ubottu> sportman1280, please see my private message
<RainCT> sportman1280: note that you can tell REVU to get it from your PPA using http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/import.py (that's still experimental so if you use it you'll be helping to test it, but poke me as imports don't run automatically right now :))
<slytherin> RainCT: Just replied to your mail about tags. Going home now. May not login later as I am down with severe cold. But if I login we can sure have detailed discussion here.
<RainCT> slytherin: alright, I hope you get fine soon :)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebner> hi geser bddebian =)
<geser> Hi sebner
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<danbhfive> hello all.  How long does it take for a package that is declared, in a bug report, to be in -proposed, to actually get in -proposed?
<danbhfive> Does it take a few days or something?
<RainCT> danbhfive: if an archive admin say that it has been accepted into -proposed, then until it's build. usually some hours, but if the buildds are busy it may take more, up to a few days
<danbhfive> RainCT: mk, makes sense.  Thanks
<gouki> How can one make bugreport work with Debian (the one one Ubuntus repositories, I mean)?
<gouki> *on
<nxvl> bugreport?
<nxvl> reportbug you mean
<gouki> Dohh! yes, nxvl.
<nxvl> it works with ubuntu?
<nxvl> i always used it for debian
<nxvl> i thought it never worked with launchpad
<gouki> I was told yesterday that something had to be changed in order to work with Debian BTS...
<james_w> gouki: "man reportbug" tells you how to tell it to use a different distribution
<james_w> "reportbug -D debian" or something
<gouki> james_w, ok. Thanks
<ScottK> The default doesn't 'work' with Ubuntu, it just sends mail to some Ubuntu ML.
<gouki> I know I asked this yesterday, but I'm about to do it and want to confirm with you guys/gals ...
<gouki> I'm about to package 2 or 3 packages that are new to both Ubuntu and Debian. In Ubuntu, a bug should be created with title: [needs-packaging] package and in Debian I need to file an ITP.
<gouki> So far so good?
<nxvl> yup
<gouki> After having the package on REVU, the Ubuntu bug get's changed to Fix Committed, and after someone sponsors that package, it gets changed to Fix Released. I should also assign this bug to myself, correct?
 * sebner winks persia =)
<james_w> gouki: assign it to yourself, but set it "In Progress"
<james_w> Fix Committed would be used when it is uploaded to NEW I think
<gouki> OK
<gouki> Well, I'm more worried with the Debian part.
<gouki> Using reportbug (the file to change BTS is in /etc/reportbug.conf, BTW) I file an ITP.
<gouki> After that, what changes do I make to the bug report?
<james_w> http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<gouki> Bookmarked! Thank you.
<gouki> When the package already exists, being on Ubuntu or Debian, theres no need for a bug report, or is it?
<sebner> gouki: yes
<sebner> gouki: so I mean, you are right
<gouki> sebner, thank you.
<gouki> One more thing ... When updating a package (I'm thinking about updating OpenArena) one only downloads the tarball from upstream and copies the debian/ from the already existing package in Ubuntu?
<sebner> gouki: well, that's the best-case. More often you have to check if everything is fine with the b-p, patches , maybe you can update the standards version ....  Also important: Don't forget to add a changelog entry
<Laney> gouki: There might be changes outside of debian/
<Laney> I usually use uupdate
<gouki> sebner and Laney, thank you. I'll go read about uupdate.
<gouki> One thing I forgot to ask .. When updating an existing package, it's recommended to also get this into Debian, correct?
<Laney> yes
<gouki> OK
<gouki> Well, I'm off. I have enough on my plate for today :)
<gouki> Thank you all for the help.
<Laney> We currently sync openarena from debian
<sebner> gouki: maybe first updating in debian so you can sync it to ubuntu easily
<Laney> so you should update it there
<gouki> Sure thing.
<porthose> If a kind MOTU has a minute would you please look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=quickplay.  I have it up on m.d.n and I just wanted a *quick* REVU from a second set of eyes for any major show stopper errors.  Thx :)
<RainCT> porthose: there are two menu files
<RainCT> porthose: debian/menu and debian/quickplay.menu (using the old section name), which can be removed
<porthose> RainCT:  Thank you very much
<RainCT> porthose: the comments from the top of the manpage can be removed. debian/control: "and utilized" -> "and uses" (though that complete line isn't probably really interesting to users); "light weight" -> "lightweight"
<RainCT> porthose: that's all I see on a quick glance
<porthose> RainCT: Thank you very much that is what I needed to know :)
<RainCT> porthose: you're welcome :)
<hyperair> hello. can someone sponsor bug #267922 for sru please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267922 in banshee "Banshee hangs up/crashes when pluggin in MTP-USB-Player" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267922
<DktrKranz> hyperair: I looked at it briefly, be sure to set target to intrepid-proposed and adjust version to be 1.2.1-3ubuntu1.1; if you're around later, I can have a deeper look. Just ping me ;)
<hyperair> DktrKranz: why 1.1?
<DktrKranz> hyperair: just to make sure it won't clash with future versions in jaunty
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> DktrKranz: gimme a moment, i'm done with the debdiff.
<hyperair> uploading
<DktrKranz> (you're encouraged to fix it for jaunty too, if you have occasion once archives will open)
<bsnider> is martin pitt here?
<DktrKranz> bsnider: no. he usually is on #ubuntu-devel, ircname "pitti"
<bsnider> thank you
<chrisccoulson> he's in #ubuntu-desktop at the moment though
<hyperair> DktrKranz: debian has 1.3.3-3. bug's fixed in there. it would probably be better to grab 1.3.3 from debian for jaunty
<hyperair> blarhg
<apachelogger> persia: if you get a chance, please vote on NCommander's MOTU application :)
<NCommander> BTW
<NCommander> this is a stupid question but
<NCommander> Do I need to be a core dev to upload to proposed on a main package?
<NCommander> (I'm going to guess yes, but maybe I'm wrong)
<geser> I don't know either but I guess yes too
<jdong> NCommander: yes.
<NCommander> Ok
 * apachelogger asks geser to vote as well
<NCommander> That makes sense
<geser> apachelogger: I know, I try to do it this week
<apachelogger> NCommander: the pocket is basically in a freeze state, like the regular pockets would be around release date
<NCommander> apachelogger, then why can't backports upload anything to the backport pocket if its a universe package?
<NCommander> (the ACL is set so only core devs can upload to the backports pocket)
<apachelogger> geser: ok, would be great to have him break stuff right away once jaunty opens ;-)
<NCommander> Yay for breaking stuff
<apachelogger> NCommander: jdong will know, but IIRC backport uploads don't require archive admin approval
<NCommander> apachelogger, yes they do
<NCommander> They get stuck in unapproved
<NCommander> jdong, hrm, maybe if the ACL for pockets match release, a backporter uploading to hardy-backports on universe might work
 * apachelogger always shudders when a package gets stuck
<apachelogger> => getting some tea
 * NCommander works on evil bug
<jdong> NCommander: I've been told it "should" "work" "for" "all" "MOTUs"
<gouki> How can I include files in a package, say an example configuration file?
<NCommander> jdong, should? Does it?
<jdong> NCommander: havent' tried yet
<NCommander> If it does, then I can stop nagging for non-main backports <g>
<jdong> NCommander: it... applies to all backports
<jdong> AFAIK.
<NCommander> oh, very cool <g>
<Yasumoto> gouki: are you thinking something like installing it in /usr/share?
<gouki> Yasumoto, could be.
<Yasumoto> and I guess it'd be in the debian directory in the package
<Laney> gouki: You mean a file that you created yourself? i.e. isn't in the upstream tarball
<gouki> Laney, no, a file that's present on upstream tarball.
<james_w> gouki: to a first approximation put the example in "debian/" and then put "debian/example.conf" in "debian/docs"
<gouki> It's a sample configuration file, that if I don't make it present on the package, will make it hard for users to know how to use the software.
<gouki> I'll try what james_w said.
<Laney> If it's already present then don't bother copying it to debian/
<Laney> just give the path in debian/docs
<gouki> Laney, OK.
<gouki> This software also includes a data/ folder (where images required to create HTML pages are stored). Would it work the same way?
<Laney> gouki: Use a debian/install for that
<Laney> docs for docs, install for other stuff
<Laney> man dh_installdocs and man dh_install
<gouki> Laney, thank you.
 * Laney eyes the channel
<Laney> motu-sru member, please look at bug #280129
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280129 in ghc6 "Please SRU ghc6 in Hardy to fix correctness bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280129
<NCommander> Laney, backporting the fix is safer then plucking the newer version in MIA
<RainCT> gouki: if it's a sample, you'll want to use debian/<package>.examples rather
<NCommander> *IMHO
<Laney> It sure is
 * NCommander grabs the source package
<NCommander> I can do the backporting
<gouki> RainCT, thank you.
<Laney> I have it already
<Laney> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> Laney, can you attach the debdiff to the bug?
<Laney> Sure.
<Laney> I'm seeking an motu-sru opinion on which way to go though.
<RainCT> btw, anyone knows if debian/examples (without <package>.) works? because the manpage doesn't mentione it
<NCommander> RainCT, it should
<NCommander> due to the way debconf works
<RainCT> NCommander: debconf?
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> debhelper
 * NCommander properly lights up the "I would test it to be sure" board
<RainCT> NCommander: yeah, I think I'll have a look at the source
<james_w> RainCT/NCommander: could one of you fix the problem that was preventing people from making me a reviewer on REVU please?
<NCommander> james_w, someone has to mark you a reviewer manually in the system
<NCommander> so if you didn't request it ...
<james_w> "SyntaxError: invalid syntax" on line 35 of alter_user.py (the SQL statement) apparently
<RainCT> ah, there's a typo there that script will probably disappear anyway once we switch to LP groups for permissions
<RainCT> james_w: what's your nickname on LP?
<james_w> james-w
<RainCT> NCommander: re dh_installmanpages, I see debhelper actually provides a perl module and the code to find the debian/* file comes from there, so it should work :)
<NCommander> RainCT, yup
<hyperair> DktrKranz: about just now... debian has 1.3.3-3. bug's fixed in there. it would probably be better to grab 1.3.3 from debian for jaunty
<DktrKranz> hyperair, definitely
<Yasumoto> If anyone has some spare time, could you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomecanvas/+bug/272316 to see if there's anything else I should add to it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272316 in libgnomecanvas "[regression, intrepid] redraw problems, patches from fedora" [Low,Confirmed]
<hyperair> DktrKranz: anyway i've made the changes. what comes next?
<DktrKranz> hyperair, provide a test case (if you didn't do already) and subscribe motu-sru
<james_w> RainCT: did you make me a reviewer?
<RainCT> james_w: yep, if I got the number right :P
<james_w> heh :-)
<RainCT> james_w: check the text in the comment box, it should say "Reviewer"
<james_w> ah, just changed, thanks :-)
<james_w> I should have more patience
<RainCT> patience? what's this? ;)
<james_w> how do I move a package to "Needs work"?
<RainCT> james_w: comment without advocating
<james_w> aha!
<hyperair> DktrKranz: ok done.
<RainCT> (once I find time for it I'll add neutral comments and then there'll be a box to select veto/neutral/advocate)
<hyperair> DktrKranz: anything else, or do i just wait?
<RainCT> siretart: ahh, I remember why the cronjob runs as root now: because the config file has chmod 600
<DktrKranz> hyperair, wait for a motu-sru ACK, then ask a sponsor to upload it for you. I could have some time to review SRUs later, but I probably have a TV marathon to see U.S. election day :)
<RainCT> siretart: ah no, but the owner is revu1 (and it's 640 actually), nevermind :P
<hyperair> DktrKranz: hahah. okay, but if it still isn't reviewed when you're done with the tv marathon, could you do it? =p
<sebner> hyperair: that makes 150â¬ for him ;)
<DktrKranz> hyperair, I guess it will be around 2 AM local time, so I will probably some sleep at the time ;)
<hyperair> DktrKranz: heh nevermind then =p
<hyperair> sebner: D=
<DktrKranz> sebner, that's all yours, I never asked money, YOU are my exception
<hyperair> lol
 * sebner hides
<hyperair> hmm what went on before?
<uniscript> I have a .deb binary package in _all that I want to transition from hardy to intrepid. Is there a way to create a .changes file without having to unpack the package and rebuild it?
<DktrKranz> uniscript, AFAIK, you have to unpack it and launch dpkg-genchanges -S
<psusi> when I run debuild it appears to be trying to sign the package with my private key identified by my user name instead of my full name, so it fails to find it
<psusi> how does debuild decide what your name is?
<hyperair> psusi: from the debian/changelog entry
<hyperair> psusi: can be overridden by DEBEMAIL environment variable
<psusi> ohh, ooops... forgot to fix that up this time...
<hyperair> no wait
<hyperair> debuild will look in debian/changelog
<hyperair> so you should get it right in debian/changelog
<hyperair> dch looks in DEBEMAIL
<psusi> yea, that fixed it... I forgot to put my full name in the changelog
<hyperair> full name? i thought it only depended on the email?
<DktrKranz> psusi, you can also pass -kyouraddress@yourprovider.ext to debuild
<psusi> got it working now... just had to fix the changelog to use my full name instead of my user name
<psusi> hrm.... looks like dput uploaded to main instead of my ppa... hrm...
<NCommander> geser, ping
<ajmitch> morning
<NCommander> hey ajmitch
<geser> NCommander: pong
<Laney> cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Jaunty open, go wild
<Laney> \o/
<NCommander> Wait
<NCommander> Jaunty is open?
<NCommander> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 * Laney dist-upgrades
<psusi> woot! PPA is building my package... neat..
 * NCommander do-rekease-upgrade -p -d's
<Laney> d-r-u knows about jaunty already?
<NCommander> nope
 * NCommander does it by hand
<NCommander> PPAs still don't know about jaunty :-/
 * ajmitch isn't surprised
<ajmitch> I should probably upgrade to jaunty around beta time
<Laney> There wasn't any massive breakage in intrepid :(
<Laney> I remember one late in the Hardy cycle
<laga> Laney: unless you had an intel NIC :)
<Laney> sadly not :<
<ajmitch> Laney: it's depressing reading some of the upgrade reports on the NZ loco list, to be honest
 * RainCT does s/NZ/cat/ and agrees with ajmitch
<Laney> ajmitch: I saw some bad ones on SA, yes
<Laney> it's mostly the same old problems
<NCommander> What are the issues?
<Laney> pulse, flash, xorg
<ajmitch> that sounds familist
<ajmitch> s/familist/familiar/
<Laney> oh and wireless
<RainCT> here we have more unusual complains (don't remember any right now, though) :P
<wgrant> Pulse seems to work fine as long as you didn't try to "fix" it in Hardy.
 * ajmitch does wonder why upgrades from the alternate CD are still supported or expected to work
 * ajmitch sees quite a few uploads to intrepid-proposed already
<laga> if motu-sru looked at stuff, it'd probably be more.
<jdong> laga: I've been trying to keep up; is the queue that bad? :(
<NCommander> I thought you uploaded to proposed, then had SRU ack it
<laga> NCommander: no, first get an ACK then upload to proposed
<laga> although the docs are not clear.
<pochu> or upload to proposed, it's unapproved, then get an ACK, then it's approved, then you test
<laga> jdong: i dunno about the queue, i just need to get mythbuntu-diskless into shape: bug #292319
<NCommander> what pochu said
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292319 in mythbuntu-diskless "SRU: nbd-client is killed during diskless client shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292319
<laga> jdong: could lead to data loss etc.
<jdong> laga: gimme one sec, let me just finish this bit of firefox mangling
<laga> jdong: sure, no need to rush. i didn't mean to tell anyone to change their workflow ;)
<jdong> ScottK: you did say that me uploading backports should work, at one point, right?
<jdong> ScottK: I'm going to try that and see if anything explodes :)
 * ajmitch waits for jdong to break the world
<jdong> alright, now I wait for big FAIL e-mails from the installer :)
<jdong> laga: is that versioning scheme going to be consistent? :)
<jdong> laga: I'd usually just do 0.9-0ubuntu1.1
<jdong> laga: unless you expect Jaunty to remain at 0.9-0ubuntu1 at release time
<jdong> ScottK, NCommander: Confirmed, firefox3 is in gutsy-backports approval queue!
<NCommander> Oh good, gutsy can now explode in a shower of bits
<jdong> (oh god I ph33r the big rush of requests from NCommander in the next few days)
<NCommander> Speaking of that, does that mean uploading for MOTU works?
<jdong> NCommander: that is correct
<NCommander> jdong, bahahahahha
<laga> jdong: i guess we can release 0.10 for jaunty.
<jdong> laga: or even -0ubuntu2 would be fine.
<jdong> laga: usually I only recommend the weirdly spliced 0.0.whatever versions if you got a package you don't expect would change for several releases or if you're the Mozilla team
<jdong> </lighthearted jab>
<laga> jdong: i usually prefer -0ubuntu2, but that security team wiki got me worried :) i'
<laga> i'll change it
<gouki> Can I use debian/rules to copy a folder to /var/www or that isn't recommended?
<jdong> laga: ACKed
<laga> jdong: thanks!! much appreciated :)
<NCommander> Here's a question
<ajmitch> the answer is no
<NCommander> How do I version an upload so that LP will accept it, and then sync when Debian has a newer version
<NCommander> Xubuntu is going to be uploading 4.4.3 to jaunty soonish, based off Debian unreleased packages (unreleased because of lenny)
<Laney> -0ubuntu1?
<NCommander> What I want to happen is that when those packages hit, expect for those with a normal 0ubuntu1 string will get auto clobbered
<ajmitch> -0build1?
<ajmitch> just for extra evil
<NCommander> I've been told 0~ubuntu1
<NCommander> or even 1~ubuntu1
<Laney> oh, autosync
<NCommander> Bingo
<ajmitch> autosync *will* clobber it if it has -0build1, but it's a nasty way to do it
<ajmitch> and assuming that the orig.tar.gz is the same, etc
<NCommander> Yeah, I'll get yelled at for uploading packages once I become an MOTU
<NCommander> ajmitch, it should be
<ajmitch> of course you can't trust my opinion on such things :)
<NCommander> I could just do a normal 0ubuntu1 upload
<Laney> Have I seen ~releaseX before? I think so
<Laney> ~jaunty1
<NCommander> I've seen ~ubuntu1 on some core packages
<NCommander> Laney, we do that for backports
<NCommander> (and some people use it for SRUs)
<Laney> right, in the main archive
<ajmitch> I don't know what the autosync behaviour is for packages with ~ubuntu1
<NCommander> ajmitch, as far as I know, autosync checks explicately for XubuntuX
<NCommander> X~ubuntu1 won't work
<ajmitch> that's the problem, as far as you know...
<RAOF> Oh, arse.  evolution-sharp is broken in Intrepid.
<NCommander> RAOF, what, again?
<NCommander> DIdn't we already fix that -_-;
<RAOF> NCommander: You fixed the strange and evil mono segfault while building evolution-sharp.
<NCommander> <g>
<NCommander> That wasn't its fault
<NCommander> That was mono
<RAOF> This is more a common-or-garden "libedataserver1.2 bumped soname to -11, but evolution-sharp still points at -9" problem.
<NCommander> oh, yay, SRU
<RAOF> Slightly compounded by the fact that evolution-sharp _should_ have refused to build against libedataserver1.2-11.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF - bug 287332
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287332 in evolution-sharp "beagle-backend-evolution cant find libedataserver-1.2.so.9" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287332
<RAOF> Aha.
<RAOF> We can almost certainly get away with an SRU that's not "make the libevolution3.0-cil -> libevolution5.0-cil transition", though.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it seems that the SRU will make it libevolution5.0-cil though, but evolution-sharp doesn't have many rdepends
<RAOF> Yeah, only 4 by my count.
<TheMuso> /c/c
<Philip5> hi guys... i have a question about a setting for the cdbs rules when building a deb package. i'm not sure what setting to use in the rules file to force a check for orphant files that doesn't get installed in a package during build but are left in i.e debian/tmp/usr/lib
<Philip5> i was guessing it's DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET := check but am not sure and think the cdbs docs could explain abit more
<Philip5> anyone here who can help me on that one?
<RAOF> DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET is for running the upstream tests; you're (probably) after the 'list-missing' target.
<RAOF> I can't offhand think of a package that uses that target, although I know there are several.
<Philip5> RAOF: aha... yes it's list-missing i guess... but how would i use that properly?
<RAOF> Make it a dependency of one of the targets.  I think common-post-binary-install is the one you're after.
<Philip5> but that would only check if it's needed? it wouldn't work on i.e icons or such files?
<Philip5> what i understand --list-missing is a parameter to dh_install but would that be a way to go when using cdbs?
<Philip5> i'm not sure that i think cdbs helps or make the life easier than old style rules :)
<logari81> hi, after reading the PythonPackaging documentation I achieved to deb-ize a pygtk application I wrote, I would like to upload my work in my ppa, but I am not that sure about the versioning part of my package, is here the right place to ask about that?
<lifeless> logari81: sure, you can ask here
<lifeless> logari81: there are docs on it though, in the more general packaging area
<logari81> my problem is that it is the first package of the application and I am not sure if I should include any of the suffixes I ve read in the documentation
<logari81> As I ve understood the schema is like <upstream version> <ubuntu version> <ppa version>
<logari81> but I see in ppa of others, packages missing the 2nd and/or 3d suffix, I suppose also they are not obligatory
<logari81> I would say in my case I dont need the too last suffices either
<logari81> is that correct?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-05
<marcin_ant> hello
<nhandler> Hello marcin_ant
<marcin_ant> is there any packaging guru that could answer me few questions?
<jdong> I'd suggest going ahead and asking instead of asking if you can ask :)
<marcin_ant> ok I'll shoot
<marcin_ant> I think that debian policy and ubuntu packaging guide are pretty weird and I really don't understand it's policy according to non-native packages
<marcin_ant> I got an example
<marcin_ant> I want to package application that is available as upstream tar.gx
<marcin_ant> gz
<marcin_ant> but inside this tar there is a bunch of directories let's say dira dirb dirc
<marcin_ant> I want to create few packages from this upstream let's call it test-dira, test-dirb, test-dirc
<marcin_ant> so I created directory named test-dira-1.0 then directory named debian
<marcin_ant> in it
<marcin_ant> and in debian dir I created all required files and watch file with required path
<marcin_ant> I also added get-orig-source target with uscan script
<Adri2000> marcin_ant: if you have one orig.tar.gz, you have one source package and one debian/ directory. then from that source package you can create multiple binary packages
<marcin_ant> then I returned to test-dira-1.0 and: debian/rules get-orig-source
<marcin_ant> Adri2000: please read carefully what I write
<marcin_ant> Adri2000: I understand that I got one source package and I understand that I can create multiple packages from it
<marcin_ant> Adri2000: but this "story" is not about it
<jdong> marcin_ant: well you're not doing it correctly
<jdong> and that's what Adri2000 is trying to tell you.
<jdong> it's unclear from your abstract example exactly what you are trying to do
<jdong> what are dira, dirb, and dirc in relation to the orig.tar.gz?
<marcin_ant> just few words
<marcin_ant> jdong: problems are: 1. orig.tar.gz doesn;t have single directory inside it has 3 directories called dira, dirb, dirc
<jdong> you've said that.
<marcin_ant> anyway I'll just finish
<jdong> I asked what specifically are a b and c?
<jdong> and what would you like to turn them into?
<marcin_ant> so I run debian/rules get-orig-source
<marcin_ant> then get-orig-source downloads upstream package to parent of debian
<marcin_ant> this is the place where should upstream orig.tar.gz go
<marcin_ant> so I got:
<marcin_ant> ~/dira.orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> ~/test-dira-1.0/
<jdong> why do you have dira.orig.tar.gz?
<jdong> I thought you said orig.tar.gz contained dira, dirb, and dirc?
<marcin_ant> jdong: because it is upstream name
<jdong> ok, then what are dirb, and dirc for?
<jdong> are they supporting libraries / dependenices?
<jdong> related binaries?
<marcin_ant> jdong: read again - they are inside of dira.orig.tar.gz
<jdong> *YOU SAID THAT*
<jdong> I am saying your abstract example is too vague for me to say anything useful.
<jdong> I'm trying to understand why upstream has three directories inside a source tarball for a project where one name is dominant
<marcin_ant> jdong: get this upstream: http://plone.org/products/archetypes/releases/1.4.6/archetypes-1-4-6-final-bundle-tar.gz
<jdong> lol ok that's annoying enough upstream made a bundle that's a tarbomb
<marcin_ant> jdong: or maybe better 1.4.5 release because 1.4.6 has bug in it's name...
<marcin_ant> http://plone.org/products/archetypes/releases/1.4.5
<marcin_ant> anyway take a look what is inside
<jdong> yeah I am looking at it right now
<jdong> upstream's site is timing out right now (45s and counting), is the software available in an unbundled tarball?
<jdong> it seems like the sub-directories are distinct python modules (packages)
<marcin_ant> apt-get source zope-archetypes
<marcin_ant> you will get orig.tar.gz 1.4.2 version (afair)
<jdong> ok, cool, so it has already been packaged
<marcin_ant> jdong: packaged 1.4.2 current from 1.4 branch is 1.4.6
<jdong> ok, so you just need to update it to the latest upstream version
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok but now we can talk about something less abstract ;)
<jdong> so, it uses the one "source package generates multiple binary packages" paradigm
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok but let's say that I want to make few changes in /debian directory
<jdong> the alternate case is repacking the source tarball into several distinct source packages
<jdong> alright?
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok propably - but it's not a problem for me to produce multiple binaries from this source tar
<marcin_ant> jdong: problem is different
<jdong> continue :)
<marcin_ant> jdong: I really don't understand what to do with it's internal directory structure
<ajmitch> NB: zope-archetypes was removed from debian, replaced by zope-plone3
<jdong> marcin_ant: what ajmitch is probably relevant now
<jdong> marcin_ant: but at any rate, to answer your original question
<jdong> marcin_ant: so the orig.tar.gz file is simply the same thing as the tar.gz you get from upstream
<marcin_ant> jdong: right
<jdong> marcin_ant: the diff.gz file from Debian is a patch to the extracted .tar.gz directory
<jdong> marcin_ant: it primarily is supposed to add the debian/ directory
<jdong> marcin_ant: roughly what's done when you apt-get source is "tar xzvf orig.tar.gz; cd orig-folder; zpatch -p1 < ../diff.gz"
<marcin_ant> jdong: and if I will run tar zxvf on it I will get a bunch of directories instead of single dir
<jdong> marcin_ant: in this case, there's a notable exception that the upstream tarball is a tarbomb
<jdong> i.e. it blows up into multiiple directories in the current directory :)
<jdong> marcin_ant: dpkg-source (the extractor) is smart enough to detect this situation
<marcin_ant> jdong: right
<jdong> marcin_ant: it automagically creates a sourcepackage-1.2.3 directory first and then unpacks inside of there
<pangloss> hey guys, I am trying to do the debian/watch part of the packaging guide, and usan is not finding anything at the url I am putting in
<jdong> marcin_ant: if you want to make a change and build a source package again, you simply run debuild -S
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok but let's use this as an example
<jdong> marcin_ant: the system will be smart enough to detect what you changed, use the orig.tar.gz and update the diff.gz
<jdong> marcin_ant: if you want to update to a new version, you need to use the uupdate tool
<jdong> marcin_ant: it takes a tarball for the new upstream version as an argument, and correctly rebases the existing diff.gz on top of the new orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> jdong: let's say that I want to do this from scratch let's forget about 1.4.2.deb etc
<jdong> marcin_ant: ok, if you want to do it from scratch, in this case
<jdong> marcin_ant: you'd first make a archetypes-1.4.2 directory
<jdong> marcin_ant: then you'd unpack the orig.tar.gz into there
<marcin_ant> jdong: zope-archetypes-1.4.2
<jdong> marcin_ant: yeah, you get my point
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok and that is a problem(!)
<jdong> marcin_ant: then you can run dh_make inside there, letting it know where your orig.tar.gz is
<marcin_ant> jdong: orig.tar.gz will not unpack into this directory
<jdong> marcin_ant: why not?
<marcin_ant> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete says that:
<marcin_ant> mkdir ~/hello && cd ~/hello && wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.1.1.tar.gz
<jdong> marcin_ant: the packaging guide is written under the assumption upstream isn't retarded and packages their product as a tarbomb.
<marcin_ant> jdong: so in our case I should: mkdir ~/zope-archetypes-1.4.2
<jdong> marcin_ant: so yes, in our case we have an exceptional case where upstream is retarded
<marcin_ant> jdong: cd zope-archetypes-1.4.2
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok I get it
<marcin_ant> jdong: but another thing
<marcin_ant> jdong: this upstream is really nightmare
<jdong> marcin_ant: note that the orig.tar.gz doesn't get wgetted into ~/zope-archetypes-1.4.2 :)
<jdong> marcin_ant: so it'd be more like mkdir ~/zope; cd ~/zope; mkdir z-a-1.4.2; wget tar.gz, cd z-a-1.4.2; tar xzvf ../*.tar.gz, and so on
<jdong> but you get my point
<marcin_ant> jdong: yes I noticed and this is a part of my next question
<marcin_ant> jdong: there is a lot of packages that have single directory inside tarball
<jdong> yep, that's the way it's supposed to be, in fact
<marcin_ant> jdong: but these direcories have different name
<marcin_ant> jdong: let's say that we want to create package zope-archetypes and got zope-archetypes.orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> jdong: with single dir inside called Archetypes
<jdong> marcin_ant: the dpkg-source helpers that handle the orig.tar.gz for you are generally smart enough to figure this out
<jdong> marcin_ant: they work around most of the quirks with packaging conventions
<marcin_ant> jdong: then I just can untar and create debian dir inside this Archetypes directory - right?
<jdong> marcin_ant: correct
<jdong> marcin_ant: note for dh_make to work you must rename that dir to archetypes-1.4.2
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok so last thing
<jdong> marcin_ant: dh_make requires the current directory to be in format (name)-(upstream version)
<marcin_ant> jdong: let's say that I don't have upstream tarball yet
 * pangloss pokes nhandler
<marcin_ant> jdong: or I want to create new upstream version
<marcin_ant> jdong: I got: ~/zope-archetypes/zope-archetypes-1.4.2/debian
<marcin_ant> jdong: I create all required files in debian dir and I also watch file with url to upstream and get-orig-source
<marcin_ant> jdong: then I cd to ~/zope-archetypes/zope-archetypes-1.4.2 and run debian/rules get-orig-source
<marcin_ant> jdong: it will download tar.gz for me and this will be renamed to orig.tar.gz and will go to: ~/zope-archetypes (parent of zope-archetypes-1.4.2)
<marcin_ant> jdong: so far so good but it's not good because zope-archetypes-1.4.2.orig.tar.gz will not untar sources to zope-archetypes-1.4.2 (where debian directory is)
<jdong> marcin_ant: that's okay
<marcin_ant> jdong: it will untar sources to Archetypes.... and what should I do with this?
<jdong> marcin_ant: dpkg-source doesn't just blindly run an untar
<jdong> marcin_ant: the actual dpkg-source command that unpacks a Debian source figures this out
<jdong> marcin_ant: I'll give you an example from your archetypes package:
<jdong> marcin_ant: go back to "apt-get source zope-archetypes" like we did before
<jdong> marcin_ant: if you notice, it fetches three files: .dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok I need to test it
<jdong> marcin_ant: if you look at the .orig.tar.gz, it's the same 5-different-directory source archive
<marcin_ant> jdong: right
<jdong> marcin_ant: but when apt-get source runs "dpkg-source -x foo.dsc", it gets unpacked into zope-archetypes-1.4.2/
<jdong> marcin_ant: that's what I'm saying -- dpkg-source -x takes care of this discrepancy for you
<jdong> it's something that you don't have to worry about
<marcin_ant> jdong: what if it;s initial release?
<marcin_ant> I need to untar this manually to zope-archetypes-1.4.2?
<jdong> marcin_ant: ok so let's say we're dh_making manually because this is the first release
<jdong> marcin_ant: remember how we just got over how to manually unpack the tar.gz to the right directory, then run dh_make?
<jdong> marcin_ant: well, after you do that *once* , run dh_make, and tweak debian/* to be the way you like it
<jdong> then you run debuild -S
<jdong> that builds the orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, and .dsc file in ../
<marcin_ant> jdong: ok I (propably) get it ;)
<jdong> marcin_ant: alright, cool. hopefully that was a bit helpful :)
<jdong> marcin_ant: it takes some time to sink in, and a lot of practice ;-)
<marcin_ant> jdong: it's weird and it's NOT described at all in CompleteGuide(!)
<jdong> I also might suggest starting off trying your first package with something that goes by the rules a bit better
<jdong> marcin_ant: Over my entire course of packaging software for Fedora, Ubuntu, and Gentoo this is about the 3rd time I've seen a tarbomb from upstream
<jdong> marcin_ant: it is by far the minority of cases :)
<marcin_ant> it's not my first package it's first that has so ugly upstream
<jdong> marcin_ant: but I think the key point to take from this is that dpkg-source's extractor and builder has a bunch of magical rules built in that try to intelligently work around these inconsistencies
<marcin_ant> jdong: I got bad luck as always ;)
<jdong> in general that stuff will work if you trust your tools :)
<jdong> otherwise a bit of digging through manpages and script sources might get you a more concrete understanding
<jdong> I admit that I'm not in the latter group :)
<jdong> I just blindly use my tools and scream loudly here when they don't work!
<marcin_ant> jdong: to be honest I really would like just download tar and put it untarred in package and then use tarball.mk from cdbs and it would work without any problem :)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> holy crap who exploded in my launchpad account?
<jdong> I've got 50 new bugmail
<marcin_ant> jdong: thank you very much
<effie_jayx> Heh
<jdong> marcin_ant: you're absolutely welcome :)
<StevenHarperUk> Hi, I am submitting a new version of my Package (Easycrypt) I need to update both Hardy and Ibex - do I submit 2 bugs?
<Thayle> How can I get involved?
<jdong> Thayle: see link in topic
<Thayle> Oh, hehe, didn't notice that...
<jdong> no probs, let us know if you have any specific questions that doesn't address :)
<Thayle> Alright, thanks jdong.
<jdong> asac: stupid question: How do you start firefox with a different profile but NOT have it remember that profile the next time you invoke a firefox?
<jdong> asac: i.e. I have a "default" and "appliance" profile. How do I make Firefox use profile "default" unless I explicitly start it with the "appliance" profile?
<jdong> playing around it seems like FF is pretty good at remember the last profile you told it to use
<StevenHarperUk> hi Any MOTUS abot o check https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<asac> jdong: err not sure ;) -P ?
<asac> yeah just -P and then select the profile without "remember" ;)
<asac> maybe not the best solution cant really remember that it remembers the last used if you specify it at command line
<asac> if it does that then -P is most likely the only workaround
<lifeless> asac: hope I have given enough info on  bug 83229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 83229 in firefox "could not close window with ctrl-W until I clicked on the	background" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83229
<jdong> asac: lol ha like there's a "remember" option ;-)
<nhandler> Hi Jazzva
<Jazzva> Hello nhandler
<nhandler> Is MoM being updated? It only goes up to 'm' right now
<lifeless> there was an issue
<Keybuk> yes
<lifeless> lol
 * jdong gives himself stupidity cookie.
<jdong>  /usr/bin/skype: "cd /usr/lib/skype && skype"
<jdong> 5 minutes and 10 gigs of swap later. D'OH
<coppro> huh?
<jdong> coppro: think about it.
 * coppro is not that familiar with skype...
<jdong> coppro: /usr/bin/skype runs "cd /usr/lib/skype && skype"
<coppro> oh
<coppro> that would be a problem
<jdong> :)
<coppro> ./ much?
<TheMuso> ouch.
<jdong> coppro: yeah yeah :P
<jdong> coppro: that's revision ~crack2 :P
<NCommander> Anyone having any issues uploading to REVU?
<coppro> NCommander: I don't think so
 * NCommander had one of his uploads rejected
<coppro> nope, I'm good
<coppro> the update for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metakit worked fine
<coppro> NCommander: is it set to jaunty? I've had some issues related to that (not with REVU, but other package tools)
<NCommander> Yeah
<ajmitch> NCommander: you don't deserve to upload yet?
<NCommander> ....
 * NCommander whacks ajmitch with a stick of DOOM
<NCommander> where do the crontab logs end up on spooky?
<coppro> spooky?
<nhandler> coppro: The server hosting REVU
<coppro> oh
<NCommander> TheMuso, I have two merges that needs uploading, cegui-mk2, and midori
<TheMuso> NCommander: Do you have bugs for them, or do you just have some files I can grab from somewhere?
<NCommander> I can kick the changesets onto mentors since REVU is kinda broken ATM
<TheMuso> NCommander: Whereever is easiest for you.
<NCommander> TheMuso, http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/m/midori/midori_0.1.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
<TheMuso> grabbing.
<ajmitch> NCommander: revu ought to work... sort of
<NCommander> ajmitch, its been fixed?
<NCommander> (or hit with a big enough hammer?)
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> NCommander: I said that before
<ajmitch> mkdir /root/.gnupg to work around it for now
<ajmitch> untested with running it from cron, but it should have accepted your upload
<ajmitch> the directory just has to exist, it doesn't even need to put anything in there
<NCommander> oh good, I can stop using mentors
<ajmitch> s/using/abusing/
<TheMuso> lol
<NCommander> nothing in mentors ToS says it has to be used for Debian review work
<NCommander> Or more specifically, nothing outlaws Ubuntu reviewers from using it
<ajmitch> I doubt that the admins want the bandwidth & diskspace used for such a purpose
 * NCommander notes he uses REVU for Debian package reviewing
<NCommander> and mentors for Ubuntu ...
<NCommander> Go figure
<TheMuso> NCommander: re midori, since it is a merge, you have dropped all prior changelog entries. I.e the only changelog entry you have is the merge entry, and no other entries from previous ubuntu changes.
<NCommander> I swore I didn't do that ...
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> TheMuso, hold on
<TheMuso> np
<NCommander> TheMuso, there
<NCommander> Fixed and reuploading
<TheMuso> NCommander: Ok.
<TheMuso> NCommander: on mentors?
<NCommander> no, REVU, since that's working now
<TheMuso> oh ok.
<TheMuso> not on front page yet.
 * ajmitch refreshes & hopes that it shows up
<ajmitch> hm..
<ajmitch> the directory exists
<NCommander> ajmitch, its working
<ajmitch> I just didn't see it on the revu frontpage
<NCommander> ajmitch, its in updated packages
<NCommander> (since its not new)
<ajmitch> good
<TheMuso> NCommander: test building midori.
<TheMuso> NCommander: uploaded.
<NCommander> yay for my first jaunty upload
<TheMuso> NCommander: And your second merge? Is that ready for review/upload?
<NCommander> yup
 * ajmitch needs to find something to merge
<TheMuso> ok
<NCommander> ajmitch, MoM
<ajmitch> NCommander: MoM doesn't have its main/universe lists generated at the moment, either
<NCommander> ajmitch, yes it does
<ajmitch> so it's digging through package directories
<ajmitch> http://merges.ubuntu.com/ <-- do you see universe.html there?
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> Where'd it go
<NCommander> It was there less than an hour ago
<ajmitch> ran off with DaD
<TheMuso> I see it not on revu...
<TheMuso> NCommander: cegui-mk2 doesn't seem to be on revu.
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> Odd
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> its on its way
<TheMuso> ok.
<NCommander> Upload complete
<TheMuso> ok.
<NCommander> ajmitch, run move_uploads.sh for me
 * jdong starts debdiffing marillat
<TheMuso> Grabbing.
<ScottK> StevenK: Would you be around and able to do a sync for me to fix a security bug?
<StevenK> ScottK: Possibly
<ScottK> StevenK: Would you be up for syncing libspf2 out of incoming.  The Debian Maintainer nicely left the LP reference in debian/changelog and everything.
<TheMuso> 8/c
<StevenK> ScottK: Version in Intrepid/Jaunty is -0ubuntu1. Do you have a sync bug? :-)
<ScottK> I'm writing it as we speak.
<ScottK> StevenK: Bug #293956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293956 in libspf2 "Please sync libspf2 1.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293956
<StevenK> Is it unstable, or incoming?
<ScottK> Incoming
<ScottK> It's aimed at Unstable.
<ScottK> StevenK: ^^
<fabrice_sp> Hi all.Can we already request syncs for Jaunty? I've just updated Bug #275534.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275534 in enblend "[sync request]Please sync enblend 3.2 from Debian experimental" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275534
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: You can, but you shouldn't mark it confirmed unless you are MOTU and have confirmed it is ready.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: ok. So I'll let him as NEW. Thanks.
<StevenK> ScottK: Synced
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
 * StevenK adds one to the beer tally
<ScottK> Interestingly enough he nicely said "merge changes from Ubuntu" and left the Ubuntu changelog entries in.
<ScottK> That's more generous than I usually see.
<NCommander> ScottK, most debian developers like to forget we exist
 * ScottK is still not going to UDS, so keep the list in a safe palce.
<ScottK> wgrant: I thought you might enjoy Bug 293950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293950 in launchpad "Software related to ... page lists wrong "Uploaded to" for packages in Testing/Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293950
<wgrant> ScottK: Its presence in Lenny or Sid is unrelated to Ubuntu.
<wgrant> But yes, it's still wrong.
<ScottK> wgrant: True.  Feel free to pile on.
<wgrant> It might just be because gina was run over Lenny first,.
<wgrant> So it should be fine for future packages.
<ScottK> wgrant: The why isn't my problem.
<ScottK> I'll be able to tell once auto-sync runs.
<wgrant> I'm not sure if the autosync is going to be using NSS yet, so that might well be irrelevant.
<StevenK> NSS?
<StevenK> Which would the autosyncer using Name Service Switch?
<wgrant> Native source syncing
<StevenK> Oh
<TheMuso> NCommander: cegui-mk2 uploaded.
<NCommander> \p/
<NCommander> uh
<NCommander> \o/
 * StevenK is trying to understand native source syncing
<lifeless> why would it be differnet
<lifeless> just don't copy a base tarball
<lifeless> or rather, only copy
<NCommander> StevenK, new LP interface/CLI?
<StevenK> NCommander: Huh?
<NCommander> StevenK, I take it some sorta new launchpad interface for doing native source syncing?
<StevenK> NCommander: I have no idea
<NCommander> Is it active yet?
<StevenK> NCommander: I don't know anything about it myself
<NCommander> Ah
<persia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/native-source-syncing
<ScottK> persia: As is usual for a LP spec the useful information isn't available "You are not allowed to view this page."
<persia> ScottK, Certainly, although it helps make it clear that "native" is about native-to-Soyuz, rather than being about native packages.
<ScottK> persia: Perhaps for you.  From the small crumbs the customers are allowed to see it's not clear how that relates to syncing at all to me.
<persia> Huh?  I don't see anything different than you.
<NCommander> https://dev.launchpad.net/ - it will be here soon enough
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but it sounds like you (or someone) is making a connection that I'm not understanding.
<ScottK> NCommander: It's already past the promised date for it.
<ajmitch> NCommander: sorry, I was out, hopefully revu did the right thing for you
<persia> ScottK, Oh.  That's me.  As I read it, it's about having some shiny button that lets one sync sources directly, rather than having someone run the syncpackage script.
<NCommander> ScottK, ?
<persia> Should address the Hobbsee-can't-sync issue.
<ScottK> OK.  I don't see that in the snipper, but we'll see someday I guess.
<persia> Well, I could be mistaken, but as I understand it, the archive-admins just run a script to work around it missing in Soyuz now, and "natively" means to me "inside Soyuz".
<persia> (at least in the context of a Soyuz spec)
<ScottK> Right and I read it as mashing stuff from one Ubuntu pocket to another.  No idea if that's at all right.
<persia> Ah.  The difference being that I've also looked at the summaries for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/sync-workflows and have seen glimpses of an apparent Debian archive import on staging in the past.
<Hobbsee> hmm?
<persia> Hobbsee, native-source-syncing possibly meaning you get a button to perform syncs (as I believe that's one of the archive-admin tasks that doesn't work for you).
<Hobbsee> oh, that would be nice!
<Hobbsee> any ETA, or?
<Hobbsee> just that they're planning it?
<superm1> i hope the button is shiny.  shiny buttons are always more exciting
<persia> No.  The spec just came up in conversation, and the spec is private, so I was guessing as to the effect.
<Hobbsee> hmm.  That looks old to me.
<persia> Rather old.  Yes.  Still desired by many.
<Hobbsee> that's irrelevant, surely :P
<Hobbsee> a whole lot of them are sitting with 1.2.x milestones, which, afaik, has long passed, so it certainly doesn't look anywhere near current.
<Hobbsee> Threrefore, no point at all getting excited.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: NSS is being implemented. That's why we have Debian imported into LP now.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yes, that one is.  That affects a lot more people.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: doesn't necessarily mean that anything's happening on related bits.
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<persia> Hrm?  Doesn't NSS mean a shiny button for archive-admins?  A shiny button for the rest of us would be nice, but I thought that was sync-workflows
<Hobbsee> persia: via command line, yes.
<wgrant> It makes the shiny button possible to implement.
<ScottK> wgrant: What is NSS.
<wgrant> ScottK: Native Source Syncing.
<ScottK> wgrant: I know what the acronym is.  I don't know what that translates to in the system.
<wgrant> ScottK: copy-package.py, but for Debian packages too, basically.
<wgrant> So copying the package within Soyuz.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: means you can do stuff like copy packages from -proposed to -updates and such, too.
<wgrant> Rather than downloading it from Debian and falsifying a changes file.
<Hobbsee> or from ppa directly to ubuntu, etc.
<wgrant> Right, pocket copies are part of it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I got that, I'm just having trouble with how it affects syncing.
<NCommander> can you copy from backports->updates?
<ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
<NCommander> oh good
<wgrant> ScottK: Since they now run gina over sid and lenny, they can use copy-package.py on it just like they can PPAs or other pockets.
<ScottK> That's been possible for some time.
<NCommander> That will make it easy to do an SRU of Xfce 4.4.3 <g>
<ScottK> NCommander: Look at KDE 3.5.10
<NCommander> That was released to SUR?
<NCommander> *SRU?
<ScottK> Yep.  It's in -updates now.
<krishna> ï»¿I was trying to build gnome-games from source.. I have built most of the dependencies.. but still i get this error.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/67751/  can someone have a look at it?
<persia> krishna, Are you working from upstream sources or Ubuntu sources?
<krishna> persia: upstrean
<krishna> *upstream
<krishna> persia: but how does it really matter?
<persia> OK.  Take a look at what gets done before running ./configure in the gnome-games debian/rules from the Ubuntu sources.  It looks to me like you're missing some preparation steps.
<iulian> nhandler: ping (Wanted to know if you're working on checkinstall merge. I already merged it and all I have to do now is to file a bug).
<StevenK> Argh. No fair merging checkinstall
<iulian> Hmm
 * iulian wonders why
<Hobbsee> unless 'merge' == 'remove'
<NCommander> checkinstall is packaged?
<NCommander> ew
 * NCommander agrees w/ Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> yes,it is
<StevenK> checkinstall was one of the first packages I fixed.
<StevenK> Hobbsee thanked me by thwaping me
<Hobbsee> he deserved it.
 * StevenK ponders a removal/blacklist
<Hobbsee> that'd be nice
<Hobbsee> oh, there must be a release goal for killing yada from the archive, too.
<persia> You know, as much as I dislike checkinstall, and somewhat regret being in the changelog, it's probably better to fix it's egregious issues than to ban it, and have people use random buggy versions.
<Hobbsee> well, ifthey use random buggy versions, then we don't have to support it.  same deal as automatix, etc.
<StevenK> Still 23 things Build-Depend on it
 * wgrant stabs Hobbsee dead.
<persia> Hobbsee, We don't support checkinstall-created packages now, but we do support checkinstall.
 * Hobbsee dies bloodily all over wgrant, and carefully rebuilds him with yada before duying.
<persia> There is no careful rebuilding with yada!
<Hobbsee> persia: yes, and i'm objecting to the supporting of checkinstall :P
<wgrant> I had to SRU a package that used yada once... that hurt.
<persia> Hobbsee, I guess.  You know, it could be improved...
<persia> It's horrid mostly because it's incomplete, rather than being purely a bad idea.
<Hobbsee> i was thinking more based on how people used it,but yes
<siretart> uh, archive already open? that was quicker than I expected...
<StevenK> siretart: It's a lie
<persia> siretart, Indeed.  Opened a few hours ago.
<Hobbsee> it's still a lie.  just like the cake.
<Hobbsee> and the ponies.
 * persia misses the ponies
<siretart> ah. so I have a few more days finishing the ffmpeg package :-)
 * NCommander reads from the book of the dead and revives Hobbsee 
<wgrant> siretart: It would have been earlier if it weren't for some surprise bootstrappings.
<Hobbsee> oh, thanks
<NCommander> siretart, someone decided to care about ports!
<siretart> wow. who did that?
<siretart> err. who does care?
<Hobbsee> siretart: the insane one.
<siretart> elmo?
<siretart> ;)
<framstag> hi there, the guys from #ubuntu-server told me this is the correct channel for my question:
<framstag> I want to add a new server application to ubuntu - where should I start?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<framstag> I am using ubuntu for several years, but only as consument, not as a developper or maintainer
<framstag> great, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is exacrly what I was looking for!
<framstag> a meta-question: how difficult is it as non-motu-member to file in a new package?
<framstag> in respect to social acceptance of a "newbie" :-)
<framstag> I want to avoid of hearing: "we don't know you. go away and earn some recognitions"
<NCommander> framstag, generally it is
<NCommander> framstag, normally because getting something packaged is a rather large piece of work
<NCommander> Once you do a few uploads with people to fix bugs and such, people are usually more receptive to packaging things
<framstag> ok, then is this approach better (more successfull): I ask a motu-member to package my software?
<framstag> I then only have to convince one thar my software is import enough :-)
<framstag> or is there already a huge queue of packinging requests?
<verwilst> emgent: ping
<StevenHarperUK> hi, are any motus about to check https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> porthose: it's all yours
<porthose> RainCT:  thx
<RainCT> vorian: if you're planning to do the ncpfs merge: the package is maintained by the Debian QA Group now, so try to get any remaining changes directly into Debian
<RainCT> vorian: and I forgot the actual question, are you planning to do the merge? :)
<nxvl> \o/ jaunty is open!
<lfaraone> How exactly does one use MoM?
<emgent> go.
<lfaraone> emgent: ?
<nxvl> emgent: exactly!
<stefanlsd> We filing bugs like normal for merges?
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> title: Please merge $PACKAGE $VERSION from debian unstable
<stefanlsd> nxvl: thanks :)
<nxvl> Report: Debian has a new version of $PACKAGE that needs to be merged
<nxvl> and attach the debdiff
<nxvl> that's pretty much it
<ScottK> jdong: I can't set importance on intrepid-backports bugs (just like Hardy started out).
<sebner> stefanlsd: and subscribe u-u-s ;) (if it's in universe)
<nxvl> james_w: around?
<nxvl> sebner: right
<nxvl> sebner: are you merging ssmtp or should i?
<nxvl> i think i a sync is needed
<sebner> nxvl: didn't even know that there is something new :) If you like it you can do it. otherwise I'll do it in the evening
<nxvl> sebner: ok, i will take care of it
<sebner> nxvl: thank you
<nxvl> sebner: indeed it is, you took your patch from debian
<nxvl> :P
<sebner> nxvl: /me doesn't have a jaunty pbuilder yet ... :P
<soren> sebner: Dude, it's been almost 24 hours! :)
<lfaraone> Anybody care to explain how a non-motu requests a merge?
<sebner> soren: I know, sry :P I didn't have time, I also have to upgrade to jaunty. don't forget that :P
<nxvl> lfaraone: file a bug, attach you debdiff and subscribe u-u-s
<sebner> nxvl: but in the evening I also need some security power (if you are interested)
<nxvl> heh
<james_w> nxvl: hey hey!
<jdong> ScottK: should be fixed now
<soren> sebner: :)
<sebner> bbl :)
<james_w> lfaraone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<sebner> soren: btw, tell colin, upgrading is *cool*. also that lenny is frozen not that much can break :P
<ScottK> jdong: Yep.  Thanks.
<soren> sebner: Tell him yourself :)
 * sebner hides
<nxvl> james_w: now that jaunty is open, are there already any plans on how to do the bzr transition?
<nxvl> (as in move everything to bzr)
 * geser searches after sebner :)
<james_w> nxvl: lots of plans :-)
<nxvl> james_w: :D as in starting now?
<james_w> nxvl: I have most of the branches ready, we will hopefully be opening them up for testers soon
<nxvl> james_w: or we will wait a bit?
<nxvl> james_w: ok, count on me
<lfaraone> james_w, nxvl , thanks!
<james_w> nxvl: launchpad isn't quite ready to host them yet, so they won't be as useful, but we're getting there
<james_w> nxvl: and you can't merge from Debian natively in bzr yet, which means it doesn't help this period that much
<lfaraone> james_w: this is going to be a very interesting cycle. (with the bzr features yet)
<james_w> nxvl: but I look forward to your feedback
<james_w> lfaraone: I agree
<nxvl> james_w: ok, then when i can put my hands on it please let me know
<nxvl> james_w: we can discuss it widely next week with some beers and pisco!
<nxvl> :P
<james_w> nxvl: I look forward to it :-)
<stefanlsd> does anyone have an idea why debian is doing this - http://paste.ubuntu.com/67910/
<stefanlsd> its in the .pot file
<broonie> stefanlsd: if there's no textual difference I'd expect the .pot file has been edited with a tool that did the reformatting.
<StevenHarperUK> hi, are any motus about to check https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<stefanlsd> broonie: yeah. would appear so.  Should i just delete them from the debdiff, or should we actually just fall in line with what they did so we dont need to keep doing it manually?
 * broonie shrugs
<nxvl> \o/ i think i'm done with all my packages
<nxvl> this is fun
<lfaraone> Won't debian devel be slow since they'd be working on perfecting lenny?
<verwilst> if i have a deb in my ppa
<verwilst> well, ready to be sent to my ppa
<verwilst> but i want to build it for hardy and intrepid
<verwilst> what do i need to do?
<verwilst> make 2 seperate changelogs?
<verwilst> one with a hardy entry and one with an intrepid one?
<directhex> verwilst, yes
<verwilst> strange but ok ;)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Unless that's a typo on the bug title, you'll want a 1 on the end of the revision number.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Delete them from the debdiff.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: yeah thanks. ended up doing that.
<ScottK> verwilst: #launchpad is a more appropriate place for PPA questions.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: your right - its just a typo - fixing it now
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: another Q I have put ibex in my debian changelog - is that wrong?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: jaunty
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: its for Hardy -> jaunty
<azeem> can maybe somebody quickly install "avogadro" on intrepid and see whether it crashes on startup? (it's a QT4 app)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: If it's for an upload now, it should say jaunty for the target release.
<verwilst> ScottK: ok!
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: i want users og hardy to get it
<StevenHarperUK> *of
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: First get it into jaunty and then get it backported.
<ScottK> !backports | StevenHarperUK
<ubottu> StevenHarperUK: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: is that a simple job?
<ScottK> Generally.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: I am targetting 2 major bugs in hardy and intrepid, is the correct route the backport one?
<directhex> what's the best way to track changes in build-dep names, for backportability?
<directhex> use libfoo-dev | libfooold-dev ?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: If you're fixing major bugs then perhaps not.
<james_w> directhex: that would work
<directhex> james_w, any better ideas?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: ok so I set to hardy - if I do will it get to intrepid also?
<james_w> directhex: though a change in -dev name usually indicates a change in API, is that not the case there?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: No.  You need to provide a debdiff with appropriate naming and numbering for each release.
<directhex> james_w, no. or if it is, not enough to prevent building.
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: sounds like a lot of effort
<directhex> cups (1.3.7-6) unstable; urgency=low
<directhex>   * Rename the package to cups.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: It can be, but we need to be careful with changes to released versions.
<james_w> directhex: what would be the problem with the alternatives approach?
<directhex> james_w, just want to make sure to do the right thing. libcupsys2-dev -> libcups2-dev is a build-dep change to worry about between releases
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: can I confirm - hardy (easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1) intrepid (easycrypt_0.2.3.1-0ubuntu1) jaunty (easycrypt_0.2.3.2-0ubuntu1)
<james_w> directhex: yeah, I just wondered why you asked if there were any better ideas. I don't see a problem with using "|"
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: For Hardy/Intrepid we don't ship a new upstream release.  We patch the existing one.
 * ScottK goes AFK for a while.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: so I make the Jaunty one (easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1) and it gets patch for me?
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: easycrypt is at 0.2.2.10-0ubuntu1 in hardy/intrepid/jaunty
<james_w> for jaunty upload your 0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1
<StevenHarperUK> ok I will and il diff it against the 0.2.10
<james_w> for hardy create a patch to fix the bug and apply it to the existing hardy package, changing the version number to 0.2.2.10-0ubuntu1.08.04.1 or similar
<james_w> similar for Intrepid, with 0.2.2.10-0ubuntu1.08.10.1
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures has a guide to choosing a version number for a particular release
<james_w> the last line of that table is your case
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: I have never done a patch before as I am upstream I do a full release
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: ok that's probably ok as long as the release just fixes major bugs, you may want to check with someone from motu-sru
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: do I make 3 seperate bugs in launchpad too?
<james_w> nope
<james_w> just nominate the bug for the affected releases
<jcastro> persia: ~6 minutes!
<slytherin> NCommander: there?
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: hi you still here?
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: yep
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: I have done the jaunty one : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: what should I do for the others?
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: just some deb-diffs?
<james_w> for the jaunty one please provide the .diff.gz from the source package you created, along with a pointer to the tarball that you released
<StevenHarperUK> james_w pointer is there
<james_w> the .diff.gz isn't
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: is that ok now
<james_w> looks better, I haven't reviewed it
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: now the other releases - do I need to make anything?
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: there the same, its just the changelog that needs to be right
<james_w> yes, something needs to be different
<james_w> at least the changelog
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: do I have to make more and compare them to the 2.2.10 ?
<james_w> compare them?
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: create the diffs + interdiffs?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> interdiffs aren't needed I don't think
<james_w> but you need to build source packages for each release and provide the .diff.gz for them
<soren> geser: Bored? There's an iptables merge with your name on it :)
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: ok back in a few mins :)
<sebner> persia: nice session :) btw, /me hasn't seen norsetto for a while now, you?
<persia> sebner, Thanks, and not recently.
<sebner> kk
 * DktrKranz kidnapped norsetto.. but please don't spread word
<sebner> lol
<geser> soren: on the contrary, too much work is waiting for me. But I will try to get the merge done, so the changes don't get lost again.
<soren> geser: No worries. I might do it myself if I can work up the motivation.
<karooga> hi, I'm trying to do a new package of someone else's tar.gz.  In the past they have been responsive but now, not so responsive.  What options do I have if I am to make fixes (and rebundle that package) - do I use LP to host the code?
<Laney> soren: I can take a look. Is there anything special about it?
<geser> soren: perlipq FTBFS on AMD64 without a libipq.a build with -fPIC
<nxvl> NCommander: around?
<soren> Laney: It's not straightforward, but certainly not rocket science either.
<sebner> nxvl: you already updated ssmtp. cool! /me has to update his pbuilder, become a MOTU ASAP you will steal all my syncs and merges :P
<persia> karooga, I'd recommend just patching in the packaging initially.  If upstream remains unresponsive for a protracted period, or there is another reason to fork, you might do it, in which case it doesn't matter whether you use LP, sourceforge, google code, savannah, etc. : that's up to you.
<soren> Laney: The only thing I didn't manage to do in a snap was geser's PIC libraries.
<nxvl> sebner: i asked you and you said that was ok
<nxvl> :P
<sebner> nxvl: but you are speed :P
<sebner> + on
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> merges are easy
<nxvl> MoM does almost all for you
<nxvl> just a little QA is needed
<karooga> persia:  thanks.  Define protracted period?  (1 week?) :-)
<persia> At least a few months.  Maybe a year?
<sebner> nxvl: pssssssstt. MoM is evil. watch out or persia slaps you :P
<Laney> soren: Will look tomorrow
<persia> karooga, Essentially, if you fork it, you're the new upstream, and unless the entire community surrounding the project joins you, it's just going to be unpleasant.
<soren> Laney: Coolness.
<geser> soren: without a libipq_pic.a this happens when one tries to build perlipq: http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=perlipq;ver=1.25-1.1;arch=amd64;stamp=1215631228
<nxvl> sebner: MoM is cool
<bobbo> james_w: ping
<persia> sebner, MoM isn't evil, it's just not human-equivalent automation.  Blindly using MoM tends to get people in trouble, but some people find some parts of it useful.
<sebner> nxvl: if it get's the commenting function like DaD has ... :P
<james_w> hey bobbo
<sebner> persia: hehe, I know. it was just a joke :)
<nxvl> sebner: yeah, it actually has a hack already, but Keybuk still haven't look at it and include it
<Laney> Why hasn't Debian adopted the PIC change?
<bobbo> james_w: you requested some sponsoring request spam, so Bug #294200 ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294200 in mpd "Please merge mpd 0.13.2-3ubuntu1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294200
<sebner> nxvl: kk =)
<karooga> persia: yeah, I don't think forking is necessary, it's really just minor fixes.  I'm just being over eager and impatient... Thanks.
<sebner> persia: though, again bad boys used it. See http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_jaunty.php  rank 21 :\
<james_w> bobbo: has the diff been forwarded?
<bobbo> james_w: writing the email as we speak :)
<james_w> bobbo: cool
<james_w> bobbo: if the Debian bug numbers are in the changelog then you don't make me ask :-)
<persia> sebner, Indeed.  You'd be doing a service to figure out who, and reply to the -changes email to -motu discussing why it's important to check.
<bobbo> james_w: ah, I didnt know we were supposed to put Debian bug number in changelogs, never seen that before :S
<james_w> bobbo: some do, some don't. I advocate it.
<james_w> bobbo: mentioning the fact in the bug report would be ok too
<geser> Laney: I guess it wasn't forwarded to Debian yet (there is a won't fix bug for PIC version of libiptc only)
<Laney> geser: Right, I'll do that too then
<sebner> persia: If I have time I'll try
<james_w> bobbo: sorry, to disappoint you, but you Intrepid has been released :-)
<james_w> bobbo: and no need to mention the maintainer change.
<james_w> bobbo: if you could fish out bug numbers for the Ubuntu changes from earlier in the changelog and add them back that would be good as well.
<james_w> bobbo: I think it's helpful to have rationale/bugs in the recent entry, rather than having to search for the original place the change was made.
<bobbo> james_w: ok thanks! Now I have a debian bug number should I put that into the changelog?
<james_w> bobbo: up to you
<james_w> I'd like to see it, but where you put it is your choice
<bobbo> james_w: ok :)
<james_w> sistpoty sent a mail to the mailing list today suggesting that they go in the changelog
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: the source tar is teh same for the revisions its just the diff tahts needed
<james_w> indeed
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: ta
<bobbo> james_w: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/67974/plain/ . Fixed maintainer field, distribution, added Debian bug number. Couldnt add rationales/bug numbers for previous changes because none were given anywhere in the changelog.
<james_w> ouch
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> I'll finish reviewing and upload in a little while
<bobbo> james_w: thanks :)
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: is that ok now (easycrypt one)
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: you should have .1 at the end of the version numbers for Hardy and Intrepid
<gouki> What happens when a software is not using any license, and the author doesn't reply when you ask for it's work to be licensed?
<lucas> gouki: you lose
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: where at the end? or the end of teh version can you give example pls
<StevenHarperUK> 08.04.1?
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: I gave you a wiki page with examples
<gouki> lucas, really? Just like that? Ohh well, was worth a try :)
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: right ill fix em
<nxvl> gouki: yup
<nxvl> gouki: it's merging time
<nxvl> the jackalope season is open
<nxvl> gouki: go to merge.ubuntu.com
<nxvl> and find some package of your interest
<nxvl> gouki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<gouki> nxvl, OK
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: ok do they look correct now please (thanks again for persisting)
<Yasumoto> nxvl: I was about to ask that question, thanks :)
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: yeah, I'd have to review diffs to be able to say more though
<nxvl> Yasumoto: :D
<StevenHarperUK> james_w: thanks
<james_w> does anybody want to organise a Debian RC bugs day?
<nxvl> james_w: o/
<james_w> nxvl: wicked
<james_w> I don't have a day off for a couple of weeks, and they might have all gone by then
<nxvl> james_w: sunday!
<nxvl> james_w: i will head the hotel at noon or early afernoon
<james_w> nxvl: that's an idea
<bobbo> james_w: fancy some more sponsoring request spam? Bug #294232 :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294232 in seq24 "Please merge seq24 0.8.7-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294232
<james_w> bobbo: I'll take that one, but I don't have much time this week.
<bobbo> james_w: ok, all sponsoring is appreciated greatly :D
<james_w> also it's better if you come to me with things that are more complicated than what looks to be a straightforward merge, that will show of your skills more
<RainCT> argh, why doesn't any of the @lists.ubuntu.com lists set a proper Reply-to header? :/
<ScottK> nxvl: Are you using -v when you build your merge packages so the debian/changelog entries of the debian updates you're merging end up in .changes?
<ScottK> RainCT: Get a proper MUA with "Reply to list" and you'll be fine.
<nxvl> ScottK: huh?
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> ScottK: my fault
<ScottK> nxvl: I noticed it on courier and ssmtp ...
<ScottK> nxvl: Not a big deal.  We've all done it.
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK> Just wanted to make sure it didn't become a habit.
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i haven't do merges in a while
<ScottK> Yep.  No one has.
<sebner> RainCT created such a nice "MOTU beginner's page". I hope it's also mentioned there :P
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me if having word 'exec' before a command in the shell script is one of the bashisms?
<geser> check "man dash" and also the check-bashism script
<slytherin> geser: thanks, exec is valid in dash. Also checkbashisms does not complain about the script.
<RainCT> sebner: :)
<NCommander> Cool, I got my final MOTU +1
<sebner> NCommander: CONGRATULATIONS! :D
 * pochu congrats NCommander 
<sebner> pochu: hihihi, first one. :P
<RainCT> NCommander: gratz!
<NCommander> Now only if I was a member of ~motu
<laga> neat
 * NCommander is shot repeatively
<laga> congrats :)
<pochu> sebner: I cut my hair last week ;)
<sebner> pochu: dito =)
<pochu> sebner: did you take pictures before and after? :)
<sebner> pochu: nope :P but I'm keen to see yours :P
<sebner> NCommander: yeah! know you are the official MOTU FTBFS guy! aweasome =)
<NCommander> I'm not an MOTU yet
<NCommander> Still need to wait for someone to add me to the gorup
<james_w> does uehs exclusively show packages that are in Ubuntu but not Debian?
<sebner> NCommander: well, but you are a MOTU now. doesn't matter if you are in the group or just in 10 minutes
<NCommander> \o/
<RainCT> james_w: afaik, it shows packages which are unmaintained (either not in Debian or owned by the Debian QA Group)
<james_w> RainCT: ah, thanks
<NCommander> jdong, ping
 * NCommander looks at the build backlog
<NCommander> Wow
<ScottK> NCommander: That's pretty usual on the first autosync run.
 * NCommander nods
<NCommander> ScottK, I just didn't realize how many packages get uploaded to Debian in six months
<ScottK> This one's actually kind of light due to the freeze.
<ScottK> I does give you an idea of how much we leverage Debian.
<ScottK> I've never seen "Building private build"
<ScottK> I guess that's because they're doing security is Soyuz now.
<NCommander> ScottK, I've seen it on occansion
<kees> ScottK: yeah, that's the SiS stuff.
 * ScottK hopes he knows what one of those is.
<ScottK> NCommander: This is the time when you can really tell what's Main and what's Universe as Main stuff gets scored to build ahead of Universe.
<NCommander> yup
<sebner> ScottK: when debian is released before DIF I suppose many packages get from experimental -> unstable -> ubuntu. Isn't there a risk that it breaks our stuff?
<ScottK> sebner: There is always risk of getting stuff out of sync via autosync.  I don't think that appreciably changes it.
<ScottK> That's part of why it gets turned off as early as it does so we can find and fix such things.
<sebner> and sebner sync bot can continue syncing :)
<ScottK> sebner: Don't go overboard.  Have a good reason to do it.
<sebner> ScottK: why did I know that you react like that ... :P
<ScottK> Because it's the right answer.
<sebner> yes and because I knew that you'll answer it ^^
<sebner> ScottK is always killing my jokes :\
 * ScottK is grumpy today even compared to his usual self.
<sebner> np
<sebner> the fun has just begun so let's be happy =)
<RainCT> uhm.. gpg says that my secret key cannot be used, any idea?
<geser> RainCT: what's the exact error message?
<RainCT> gpg: skipped "rainct@ubuntu.com": la clau secreta Ã©s inusable
<RainCT> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: la clau secreta Ã©s inusable
<RainCT> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<RainCT> with LANG=C,     unusable secret key
<geser> does using gpg still work for you?
<RainCT> not sure, I only use it for package signing :P
<RainCT> let me try unencripting something
<NCommander> RainCT, it sounds like your key went and corrupted itself :-/
<NCommander> geser, hey
<geser> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> geser, how goes it?
<geser> NCommander: fine, just very busy the last days and I don't see an improvement in the near future
<RainCT> bah, I have to find my backup then.. :(
<NCommander> geser, that sucks, but it could be worse
<geser> RainCT: compare todays date and the expiry date of your key :)
<RainCT> crap!
<RainCT> I guess it can't be unexpired? :P
<RainCT> and why doesn't that damn gpg thing warn you some days before? :P
<geser> I guess you should be able to update the expiry date
<RainCT> uop, what is the expiry date for then? to scare you? :D
<geser> hmm, perhaps you can't. I didn't find an option on a quick look to update it
<RainCT> geser: I can, just did it with seahorse :)
<geser> yes, google helped me too: "expire" in the gpg --edit-key menu
<RainCT> geser: thanks :)
<geser> RainCT: don't forget to tell the Ubuntu keyserver that you changed the expiry date
<RainCT> geser: because I have no signature from any DD yet and the window is closed, else I'd have jumped out *g*
<geser> I don't know if soyuz will accept your signature otherwise
<RainCT> yep, I'm searching how to do this (seahorse can't because there's a bug in the code for it :P)
<geser> gpg --send-key rainct@ubuntu.com
<geser> or use your keyid instead of the email address
<ajmitch> hi
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<RainCT> ajmitch: hey
<iulian> RainCT: You might want to use the keyserver option too.
<iulian> geser: I thought that you must specify the keyserver first.
<iulian> keyserver.ubuntu.com
<geser> iulian: unless you have one set in your .gnupg/gpg.conf
<tbielawa> hellooo everybody
<iulian> geser: Ah, right.
<RainCT> iulian, geser: done, thanks
<geser> RainCT: don't forget to put a sticky note on your monitor to remind you when your key expires again :)
<RainCT> geser: I won't forget :)
<ajmitch> you say that now
<iulian> Or set it to never expire?
 * iulian agrees with ajmitch.
 * RainCT goes to do homework where pbuilder slowly downloads bdeps
<iulian> RainCT: I said exactly the same thing when I generated my second key. After a couple of weeks when I tried to sign a document using that key, I couldn't remember my password.
<iulian> Fortunately, after ~50 combinations I entered the correct one and recovered my key ;)
 * NCommander uses a password but doesn't expire his keys
<RainCT> lol
 * ajmitch wonders why that RC bug day has to be on sunday
<iulian> RainCT: Well, I wrote a small program which gives me the passwords in a nice way. And yes, that file is in a safe place, encrypted.
<tbielawa> lol
<RainCT> iulian: and if you forget the password to decrypt it? :D
<iulian> Yeah, it sucks when you don't remember something which you need it in a few moments.
<iulian> RainCT: Impossible. ;)
 * iulian goes back to hunt some merges.
<ScottK> iulian: I'd rather you hunted patches to send to Debian out of those merges.
<tbielawa> Does anyone have time to do a REVU for me? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lucidlife it would be much appreciated.
<iulian> ScottK: Sure, I'm looking at some of them right now. So, we send the patches to Debian, wait until the patches are included and then sync?
<ScottK> iulian: That's my preferred workflow.  If it gets close to DIF and they haven't updated, merge then.
<iulian> Cool, thanks.
<ScottK> iulian: If there's a case where you know we have changes that won't go in Debian, then you should still send them the stuff that's relevant, but there's no real need to wait to do the merge.
<iulian> ScottK: OK, that's what I thought.
<pochu> devfil: do you want to take the wx2.6 merge for me? :)
<devfil> pochu: there is a wx2.6 merge? ...
<devfil> ok :)
<devfil> thanks
<pochu> devfil: thanks to you! :) I've assigned it to you in a comment in http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<pochu> devfil: this needs to be merged: http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wxwidgets2.6/news/20080909T143211Z.html
<Yasumoto> This is a ridiculous question, but where's the fedora bugzilla?
<Yasumoto> my google skills are terrible right now, I guess.. :/
<Yasumoto> Does redhat use https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ for both RHEL and fedora?
<pochu> I think so
<iulian> Yes, IIRC.
<Yasumoto> thanks guys. I found the fedora wiki, and it looks like bugzilla.redhat.com is it: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzilla
<pochu> Laney: you've got to do the fet merge ;)
<pochu> nhandler: and the mmorph merge is yours!
<pochu> Laney, nhandler: feel free to ping me if you want sponsorship for those
<directhex> hm, looking at planet, it seems gnome-do is popular
<stefanlsd> can debian still fix stuff in unstable?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Yes.  It just doesn't get into Lenny without approvals (which are very hard to get).
<stefanlsd> ScottK: kk. cause we have time still. Some of the merge stuff i'm rather forwarding and getting them to fix so we can just sync.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: That's the preferred approach.
<directhex> bug fixes will get into lenny. UVF is pretty strict
<james_w> any REVU admins around?
<james_w> jelmer uploaded a new version of ptabtools yesterday, but it hasn't shown up on REVU, could someone see if there is something wrong?
<stefanlsd> anyone having issues with the requestsync script?
<pochu> stefanlsd: we can sync from experimental anyway
<pochu> in case your changes are uploaded there
<ScottK> directhex: Only for RC bugs.
<james_w> ah, don't worry, he worked it out, he uploaded binaries, not a source package
<ajmitch> james_w: there was an issue with REVU yesterday as well, which meant that packages weren't being accepted for awhile
<pochu> ScottK: non-rc are also approved for lenny sometimes
<james_w> ah, might have hit that as well, thanks ajmitch
<ScottK> pochu: True, but it's definitely the exception.
<ScottK> tbielawa: You assert that part of your package is public domain.  How do you know that?
<tbielawa> ScottK, you are referring to "pattern archive in patterns/..."?
<ScottK> Yes
<tbielawa> one moment please.
<ScottK> tbielawa: I have to run out, but consider that copyright law in many contries doesn't have the concept of public domain.
<tbielawa> ScottK, then I should also provide a reference URL which declares their public domain status, or perhaps including the text of the american public domain definition would be better suitable?
<tbielawa> (also, README from upstream tarball is where they are declared as public domain)
<ScottK> tbielawa: "Public domain" works can be problematic is some respects.  If they created it then it'd be simplest if they also licensed it under some really broad license like the wtfpl.
<tbielawa> ScottK, would you recommend I attempt to contact the public domain author?
<laga> the wtfpl sounds neat
<tbielawa> I like that license
<pochu> i can has jaunty ppa pliz? :)
<Yasumoto> So on http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php, anything that has a /!\ needs to be looked at by a human, right?
<Lutin> Yasumoto: everything needs to. the ones marked /!\ are broken, and consequently the output of DaD should not be taken into account when merging
<logari81> hi, I try to upload for first time something on my ppa and I get the following error
<logari81> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<logari81> but I see packages in ppa's of other members, built against "unstable", am I missing something?
<Yasumoto> Lutin: ah, cool. thanks
<ScottK> Yasumoto: They ALL need to be looked at by a human.
<Yasumoto> ScottK: yeah, I'm looking at the outstanding merges for universe (300!). reading the UbuntuDevelopment/Merging wiki page now
<ScottK> OK.
<ajmitch> down to 300 already?
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, Debian has been in a freeze
<Yasumoto> yeah, according to http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: yes I know
<directhex> jaunty will suffer unless lenny releases pronto. close an RC bug today!
<ajmitch> few of the remaining RC bugs in debian will be just quick fixes
 * ScottK wraps his head around using pbuilder to build the new pbuilder ...
<pochu> logari81: try in #launchpad
<logari81> pochu: thnx I ll try, but I think I ll build my packages explicitly against intrepid and/or jaunty
<ScottK> logari81: PPA is run by Launchpad.  You need to ask there.
<NCommander> ScottK, your pbuildering pbuilder?
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> And then I'm doing it again to test the result of the first one.
<NCommander> ScottK, I ... uh ...
 * NCommander feels confused
<ScottK> I need to know if the new pbuilder works for the backport, so I need to install it and build something for a test ...
<ajmitch> NCommander: I'm surprised
<ScottK> BTW, with debchroot from Jaunty backported to Intrepid it's no trouble to make a new pbuilder chroot for Jaunty.
<ScottK> Not that I'd have expected anything else.
<sebner> ScottK: debchroot = debootstrap?
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.  My typo.  Sorry.
<sebner> ScottK: np, thx for the hint =)
<ajmitch> or you just put in another symlink for jaunty
<ScottK> That too.
<sebner> ScottK: does autosync already runs?
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.
<superm1> ScottK, i seem to remember you were tracking some bug where hotkeys are broke in kde 4, like vol+/vol- and play/pause etc?  Do you have that handy?
<tuxmaniac> where can I find some information on rising sru for intrepid?
<sebner> ScottK: cool thx. so /me has to upgrade to jaunty =)
<ScottK> sebner: Look how many are in queue https://launchpad.net/+builds
<ScottK> superm1: jdong was working on that.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> superm1: Bug #267245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267245 in kdemultimedia "Keyboard volume keys only change PCM volume" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267245
<superm1> great thanks
<ScottK> IIRC he was still trying to sort out brightness keys.
<wasabi> Hey... trying to get a cdbs package to work and something is eluding me.  Using makebuilddir/source-package-name:: to do some stuff before configure. but it's never being run.
<tuxmaniac> ok got it thans
<wasabi> Also tried to use a binary package name.
<superm1> I just saw some hal-info bug filed which I was pretty confident was actually a KDE bug, there's an upstream tracker for it too, so i'll add that
<jdong> ScottK: talked to Riddell regarding the brightness keys; fixing them will require work on qt4-x11 to bring out those hotkeys.
<sebner> ScottK: yep, quite busy our mighty machines =)
<jdong> superm1 / ScottK: Base problem is qt4 doesn't support the XF86MonBrightness{Up,Down} KeySyms
<ScottK> jdong: Sounds like something worth doing in Jaunty then.
<jdong> ScottK: agreed.
<jdong> superm1: the current Kubuntu workaround is basically xmodmapping brightness keycodes to various "unused"/esoteric keys, in particular XF86Launch4/XF86Launch5 which QT does understand
<jdong> superm1: that, though, breaks the brightness keys in GNOME :)
<superm1> jdong, gosh how silly
<jdong> so yeah, I think this is something to work on in Jaunty, not Intrepid.
<jdong> it's quite a hairy mess and I don't want to cause regressions for Kubuntu users who already have working brightness keys
<ScottK> Yes.  Please.
<superm1> i think crack for jaunty is more fun anyway, get adding :)
<sebner> ScottK: btw, another question. if some of my major sponsors are in the MC I don't need to CC them right?
<ScottK> sebner: Dunno.
<sebner> ^^
<ScottK> Personally, I'd cc everyone.  I don't think there's a rule though.
<NCommander> sebner, you applying for MOTU?
 * sebner hides
<sebner> ScottK: I just thought recieving 2 times the same email isn't that fun
<nhandler> sebner: If a person is CC'd on a mailing list message, the list will not send them another copy iirc
<TheMuso> nhandler: I think it depends on list and user settings.
<ScottK> nhandler: That's not the default for mailman.
<nhandler> ScottK: I thought it was. I know I don't get duplicate messages if I am CC'd
<ScottK> It's a config option.  Dunno how the MC list is set.
<RainCT> james_w: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/JauntyCleanu
<RainCT> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/JauntyCleanupMessage
<RainCT> any improvements welcome ^
<ScottK> RainCT: I have a REVU feature request.
<ajmitch> ScottK: a 'nuke all' button?
<ScottK> RainCT: It'd be nice to have something to click on that would run grep -ir copyright * on the source and output the result.
 * sebner is happy that he started a discussion about mail settings  ^^ 
<ScottK> ajmitch: That too.
<logari81> I got my questions about ppa answered, but now I need some feedback about my first packaging attempt. Could anyone take a look here https://launchpad.net/~logari81/+archive/ and give me feedback?
<ScottK> ajmitch: My equivalent is generally "Don't look at REVU".
<james_w> RainCT: nice job, I think that strikes a good balance.
<james_w> RainCT: thank you
<sebner> NCommander: to be honest I wanted to wait some time after I saw your application ;)
<ScottK> RainCT: The reason I ask is that I often end up doing reviews just for licensing stuff and that's save me bothering with some downloading.
<RainCT> ScottK: That's an interesting proposal. Perhaps it could be written to a file, like with lintian. What exact command would you suggest?  "grep -ir copyright * | tee ...; licensecheck * | tee -a ..." ?
<ScottK> RainCT: I don't generally use licensecheck so I'm not able to say about that.
<james_w> licensecheck has a copyright flag
<ScottK> Maybe that's all we need then.
<RainCT> james_w: (re the message) Thanks :). Anything which could be improved?
<james_w> "licensecheck -r --copyright . " I think
<james_w> is the best way to call it
<RainCT> thinking about it again, perhaps dinamically generated is indeed better.. else siretart may kill me for filling up the disk :D
<RainCT> alright, let me try if I can get it ready right now
<james_w> RainCT: I can't think of anything, I think that is a good message for this point.
<nhandler> RainCT: I have another suggestion. Could you please grep the changelog file for (LP: #NNNNNN), and either display a link to the needs-packaging bug or display a warning stating that the package does not close a needs-packaging bug on LP?
<RainCT> nhandler: yep, that's on my TODO, too
<nhandler> Awesome RainCT
<ScottK> nhandler: Why do we care if it closes the bug?  The bug won't close because of that.
<nhandler> bobbo: You should really contact the last uploader of a package before doing a merge (especially this early in the cycle). I was already working on the seq24 merge
<Yasumoto> wow, I like how I submitted a bug report upstream for clisp, and I just realized the upstream guy already pretty much shot down the bug. whoops..
<nhandler> ScottK: It makes it easier to check that it does in fact close a needs-packaging bug (which is a requirement), and it also makes it easier to see what discussion (if any) has occured regarding the package
<ScottK> nhandler: I guess I don't see the point in the requirement.
<nhandler> ScottK: Well, I'm not the one who made that requirement ;)
<bobbo> nhandler: sorry, wont do it again!
<nhandler> No problem bobbo. I probably should have opened a bug report when I started working on it
<RoAkSoAx> is merging for jaunty open?
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: yep
<RoAkSoAx> right on!
<RAOF> In case anyone's interested, you're welcome to do the miro merge.  Don't think I've got a maintainer-lock on it! :P
<Yasumoto> Speaking of which, what's the best way to see if a maintainer's working on a package? ping them on irc?
<RAOF> Check the bug page first, and DnD's comment section.
<Yasumoto> RAOF: good idea, thanks
<RainCT> ScottK: I think this will be discussed Friday 14th (there's "wnpp package for Ubuntu" on the schedule)
<RAOF> Then a ping on IRC; if you can't get them on IRC then what you should do next depends on the stage of development, the history of uploads (I'm likely to be much more interested in a merge if, say, I'm the Debian maintainer too, or I've consistently uploaded the package).
<Yasumoto> RAOF: yeah, it's probably something you're quite familiar with, and it's at the top of your list
<RAOF> Yasumoto: What? Miro?  I'm familiar with it, but you're absolutely welcome to take it if you wish.
<Yasumoto> haha :)
<RAOF> The merge should be reasonably simple.
<Yasumoto> Alright, sounds great to me, I'll grab it now
<RAOF> My test-build ability will be somewhat limited for a while by the fact that my something in my buildbox decided to catch fire this morning.
<james_w> RainCT: have you considered the timing of that mail with the REVU day?
<Yasumoto> RAOF: sounds brutal.. :(
<RAOF> It'll be the power supply or something.
<RainCT> james_w: Not sure what you mean. "that mail" -> the mail I'll send to announce it?
<james_w> RainCT: sorry, I meant moving the packages to "Needs Work"
<james_w> RainCT: if you do it today then there will be people who will miss a REVU day
<james_w> if you do it after then it doesn't help the reviewers on Friday
<james_w> do you know how often the REVU days will be?
<RainCT> james_w: weekly, every Friday
<james_w> ah, cool
<james_w> no problem then
<wasabi> Any cdbs people here? I am having trouble getting makebuilddir/ to work.
<NCommander> RainCT, stupid question. I got three +1s on my MOTU application, but I'm not in ~motu yet. Can I still +1 on REVU apps?
<wasabi> As in, it's simply not being called, and I can't figure out why.
<RainCT> NCommander: I can't answer to that :)
<NCommander> RainCT, your the REVU coordinate ;-)
<NCommander> *cooridinator
<james_w> does anybody want to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ptabtools ?
<james_w> I haven't advocated yet, but I plan to once I get a build environment sorted out
<NCommander> I will
<NCommander> james_w, the copyright file is incomplete
<james_w> why?
<NCommander> It doesn't list who holds the copyright
<james_w> ah, downloaded from?
<james_w> Copyright (C) 2005-2008 Jelmer Vernooij <jelmer@samba.org>
<NCommander> No, the entire line is blank
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> go one down
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> The upstream is the packager?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I don't see a problem with lumping it all in together
<james_w> but I'm not an archive admin
<NCommander> james_w, ok, fair enough
<NCommander> Why does it use *.links?
<james_w> because the Makefile is incomplete I believe
 * NCommander would normally file a bug w/ the upstream on that ;-)
<NCommander> The dirs files can be removed, they are only needed if make install will not create them
<james_w> again, the Makefile :-)
<NCommander> make install doesn't work?
<NCommander> ARGH
 * NCommander thunks his head
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I don't mind +1ing the package if the resulting binaries are lintian clean and it builds in a jaunty pbuilder chroot
<james_w> no, that does work
<james_w> I'll mention it to him
<NCommander> It FTBFS in pbuilder
<james_w> NCommander: ok, thanks. Please drop the error in a comment and I'll work with him to get a working package.
<coppro> NCommander: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metakit? I haven't tried it on a jaunty pbuilder yet, I'm making the chroot now
<NCommander> Want me to build it?
<coppro> review it, if you would be so kind :)
<NCommander> I can already see a critical issue
<NCommander> "0ubuntu2"
<coppro> yeah, I know
<coppro> I'm not sure about REVU's versioning scheme; and it won't let me update without increasing the version
<NCommander> Care to explain?
<NCommander> coppro, revu will accept anything and it will clobber
<NCommander> Is this package from Debian?
<coppro> it just straight clobbers, wihtout anything so much as "new upload?"
<NCommander> (why are there README.Debian files)
<coppro> no, it's not Debian
<coppro> oh, what should I be using then?
<NCommander> coppro, every upload is perserved
<coppro> NCommander: well, last time I tried, it didn't work
<NCommander> README.Ubuntu, unless you intend to submit this to Debian
<coppro> and someone said to bump the version
<coppro> NCommander: ok, I'll change that
<NCommander> WHoever said that probably thought you meant PPAs
<coppro> oh
<coppro> well it didn't work
<coppro> my upload never showed up
<RainCT> NCommander: README.Ubuntu? o.O
<NCommander> REVU last night was having issues
<coppro> was a couple of days ago
<NCommander> RainCT, as an aside, next time you edit a script, try it afterwards. GPG validation was broken because a permission got screwed up
<NCommander> :-)
<RainCT> oh ok, I was wondering why there's that much rejected stuff lying around :P
<RainCT> NCommander: which file was wrong?
<NCommander> You managed to get GPG trying to write scratch files in /root/.gnupg
<NCommander> Which didn't exist
<NCommander> RainCT, anyway, I thought on Ubuntu specific packaging, the README files should be README.Ubuntu
<NCommander> (so if the package ever exists in Debian and then are merged, both are available)
<RainCT> there should only be one if they are merged :P
<NCommander> Having a README.Debian file seems wrong on a 0ubuntuX package
<coppro> well, I've made the change
<james_w> I don't see a need to break convention
<coppro> *shrug*
<james_w> yes, it makes a sense, but why break the association of "information specific to a .deb" => "README.Debian"?
 * RainCT agrees with james_w 
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=3818 :)
<james_w> RainCT: wow, nice work :-)
<RainCT> james_w: was actually quite easy to add :)
<james_w> don't say that!
 * NCommander gives up on the README.Ubuntu
<csilk> If an app came in a zip file can I just unzip, create tar.gz of source, create .orig.tar.gz then get rid of the zip?
<RainCT> NCommander: do you have a double personality which fighted against yourself on this? *g*
<csilk> making a note in the changelog of course
<RainCT> csilk: if that's the only option, yes. but do that automatically using a get-orig-source rule
<csilk> RainCT, k thanks
<RainCT> (sponsors are supposed to generate the tarball themselves using get-orig-source before updating, to ensure that the tarball wasn't modificated)
<RainCT> (not sure if anyone does this, but well, get-orig-source rules are nice nevertheless :))
<csilk> using the get-orig-source rule wasn't mentioned in holbachs video tutorials
<RainCT> csilk: it's just an additional target in debian/rules, which does whatever you want
<csilk> I'll read up on how that works
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-06
<RainCT> csilk: here you have an example of how such a rule looks (this one is to package a bzr snapshot instead of repackaging, though): http://paste.ubuntu.com/68134/
<csilk> Yeah that looks simple
<csilk> much cleaner than making manual changes
<RainCT> well, I'm off
<RainCT> see you tomorrow
<Yasumoto> RAOF: so I'm using the grab-merge.sh script to pull miro
<Yasumoto> and the .patch files seem empty
<Yasumoto> should I gunzip the diffs and compare those?
<RAOF> Yasumoto: Looking on merges.ubuntu.com there are conflicts in the merge; thus you'll need to actually look at the various diffs and unpacked tarballs, yes.
<Yasumoto> cool
<Yasumoto> and for the bug I'm filing, something like "Please merge miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" would work?
<RAOF> Yeah.  You could possibly title it as "I'm merging miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" and retitle it once you're done, but that title looks fine.
<Yasumoto> will do
<Yasumoto> RAOF: thanks :)
<csilk> If source comes from CVS should I remove CVS specific dirs and files before packaging?
<csilk> if so, do I just do this by rm'ing the said failes/dirs
<ajmitch> cvs export is cleaner than running through with rm
<csilk> ajmitch, by export do you mean a specific flag that doesn't include cvs specific files?
<ajmitch> iirc the command is just cvs export
<ajmitch> it's been a long time since I've used it
<zul> people still use cvs?
<csilk> I did a simple export, as axpected, it included all the cvs files
<csilk> zul, yeah sourceforge do
<ajmitch> zul: apparantly
<csilk> *expected
<csilk> come to think of it the version control system used makes no difference as they all leave their own dirs and files in the source
<csilk> Anyone awake?
<ajmitch> sort of
<csilk> "Non-native packages must have verifiable cryptographic path to upstream source "
<csilk> Could you possibly elaborate on that?
<csilk> it's form the new package review guidelines
<csilk> *from
<lifeless> lol
<lifeless> like upstream have a monopoly on safety?
<james_w> verifiable? how?
<StevenK> That strikes me as overly paranoid
<wgrant> Verifiable by checking the md5sum of the tarball, perhaps.
<james_w> do I have to drive and check the upstream author's passport?
<ajmitch> james_w: it may help
<csilk> wgrant, if an md5sum isn't provided by upstream then what?
<StevenK> wgrant: But then you need check the signature on the md5sum, and have a trust path to his key
 * ajmitch is surprised that it's written as 'must have'
<wgrant> csilk: Then your upstream needs to be hit with something very spiky.
<NCommander> hey wgrant
<wgrant> Hi NCommander.
<csilk> wgrant, I'm sure alot of apps have this issue in the repositories, that's alot of upstream beating ;)
<wgrant> Doesn't mean we need to add more.
<csilk> That takes away alot of potential software then
<lifeless> everything packaged from svn becomes inadmissible
<lifeless> and cvs
<csilk> even then, StevenK had a good point about untrusted sigs
<lifeless> and rcs
<lifeless> etc etc
<ScottK> Well given the current state of DNS technology believing you got what you asked for when DNS is involved is optimistic.
<lifeless> true
<lifeless> so
<ScottK> If you pull via ssh and know the distant end's key, you still have a good trust path.
<lifeless> we can only package content with either a gpg web of trust signed md5 of the content or dnssec end to end to identify the web host + https w/ good certificate
<lifeless> ScottK: only if the far end key was given to you securely
<ScottK> True.
<lifeless> do these guidelines get reviewed?
<csilk> lifeless, so package A, a requested package, maintainer manages to get upstream to include signed md5sum, this signiture is not part of a web of trust, would this app have a chance?
<ScottK> Where are the guidelines?
<wgrant> I think that they should remain as prohibitively difficult as possible.
<james_w> csilk: we don't normally go nearly as far as that to check
<lifeless> csilk: sounds like it wouldn't because you can't be sure that upstream made the signature
<lifeless> csilk: only someone that claimed to be upstream
<lifeless> its also more than slightly insane that this rule only apply to non-native packages
<lifeless> native is *not* special
<ScottK> So it sounds like we need to write a better rule.
<wgrant> lifeless: There is no other upstream for native packages...
<csilk> It sounds like this rule is probably ignored for n anount of current packages
<ScottK> It'd also be handy if all the source in our own archive were signed.
<csilk> i dont believe all current packages have verifiable links to upstream
<lifeless> wgrant: you misunderstand what native really means I think. It really means 'a tarball is uploaded on every change'
<lifeless> wgrant: it has *no* deeper implications than that
<lifeless> wgrant: for all that some people may wish it idid
<ScottK> csilk: I think it's more important recently because it's easier to fake stuff than it used to be.
<wgrant> lifeless: I'm aware, but if there is another upstream then being native is *wrong*.
<wgrant> And should be punishable.
<ajmitch> which is where we get things like the wxwidgets packaging from
<ScottK> wgrant: It happens though.
<lifeless> wgrant: which has nothing to do with the security/relevance here
<csilk> ScottK, so this pretty much invalidates a large portion of package-requests
<lifeless> wgrant: also, under that approach, nothing in ubuntu that is native in debian should be native in ubuntu
<lifeless> wgrant: because, there is another upstream - debian.
<ScottK> csilk: I think we need a reasonable definition of what needs to be done.
<wgrant> lifeless: True.
<lifeless> the brutal reality is that native is just a bad way to upload any package, but its enshrined due to history
<wgrant> ScottK: Yes, "Go to Debian"
<csilk> ScottK, are we going to get that any time soon?
<ScottK> Dunno.
<lifeless> csilk: this discussion is probably the start of one
 * ScottK only volunteers here.
<ajmitch> ScottK: so does just about everyone else
<csilk> I have two packages I would like to submit for REVU very soon, they suffer from this issue, shall I just not bother submitting them then?
<lifeless> I do, thats for sure
<lifeless> csilk: submit them
<ScottK> ajmitch: Sure, but don't turn to me to be the authority on what'll happen when.
<lifeless> csilk: in general, ignore insanity in the process
<csilk> haha
<csilk> ok
<ScottK> Odds are most other people are too.
<csilk> While people have their eyes on irc.... When packaging something pulled from cvs/svn etc I assume all version control based files and dirs are to be removed from the source?
<lifeless> csilk: its inefficient to include a lot of metadata
<lifeless> so yes
<lifeless> see the $vcs-buildpackage scripts, which know how to do that for you
<csilk> Any prefered method or can I just rm?
<csilk> ok
<csilk> thanks
<RAOF> Also, a generally better plan is to package a release rather than a random VCS snapshot.
<ajmitch> RAOF: depending on sanity of upstream
<csilk> yeah I agree with that RAOF but sometimes that's not possible/desirable
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> We'd be waiting a _long_ time to package ffmpeg, for example :P
<ajmitch> when did it last release?
<RAOF> Never?
<ajmitch> heh, fun
<lifeless> releases are more important the more destabilising changes outside a release may be
<ajmitch> when did it ever have a stable API?
<lifeless> for instance libraries are a problem
<wgrant> A[PB]I stability in ffmpeg? Hahahaha.
<RAOF> "If you are looking for a formal release, stop now, there are none. Maybe we will have some in the future, but don't hold your breath."
<ajmitch> I think this is why there have been so many copies of ffmpeg source bundled
<RAOF> Abolutely.
<wgrant> I really wish that there was an alternative to ffmpeg.
<RAOF> That's the way the ffmpeg devs recommend, since providing API/ABI stability would inhibit their ability to perform micro-optimisations.
<wgrant> That way we could tell upstream go to fsck themselves and get out of our distro.
<RAOF> wgrant: You can have a pretty reasonable gstreamer-based system without a trace of ffmpeg.
<wgrant> RAOF: Right, but lots of apps need ffmpeg.
<lifeless> its a complete strawman though
<lifeless> change api - bump soname
<lifeless> change abi - bump soname
<lifeless> ITS NOT THAT HARD
<wgrant> lifeless: These are ffmpeg developers...
<RAOF> lifeless: Also, if they made a release they'd feel obliged to support it in some way.  They don't want to do that.
 * RAOF spent an instructive year or so on the ffmpeg-devel list.
<lifeless> well, thats in their heads
<lifeless> :P
<RAOF> There's something wrong with multimedia that rots people's brains.
<RAOF> There's a lot of overlap between mplayer & ffmpeg developers, and mplayer famously changed 1/3 of their codebase (or something like 300KLOC) between rc1 and rc2 of mplayer 1.0 :)
 * StevenK whispers "Quicktime"
<lifeless> yah
 * wgrant murders StevenK.
<lifeless> there is a multimedia fragments http wg
<wgrant> RAOF: It was more then 300KLOC... I did that merge.
<lifeless> more than slight oddity sometimes in their thinking
<wgrant> That was insane.
<ajmitch> RAOF: because 300KLOC was obviously all release-critical fixes
 * StevenK burns an Anhk and self-resurrects
<lifeless> StevenK: :P
<wgrant> They rewrote so much stuff it wasn't funny.
<ajmitch> heh
<wgrant> Shifted things around, embedded more upstream projects.
<wgrant> It was a wonderful release candidate.
 * ajmitch wonders if ubuntu could learn from such releases
<wgrant> It's like Gentoo, but without masking.
<StevenK> Only if the lesson is "How NOT to do things"
<ajmitch> have the jaunty RC be a nice, normal release
<ajmitch> & then a week later put out an untested desktop with E17 & the hurd
<RAOF> I think a year's gap between RC1 and RC2 would allow for a significant increase in bugfixing, yes :P
 * RAOF watches as gnome-do slowly but surely inches its way to the top of mem usage.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<wgrant> It has been almost a year since rc2.
<wgrant> I wonder what the diff is now.
<RAOF> So it's about time for rc3 to drop? :)
<wgrant> Yep.
 * RAOF will leave that little bundle of joy right where it lies.
<ajmitch> 1.0 will be upon us RSN?
<wgrant> I presume they did it just to stop people from complaining they never get close to a release...
<ajmitch> obviously they're going to commit to a 1.0 release at some point, right?
<RAOF> They should just have the courage of their convictions and tell everyone to run from SVN.
<ScottK> wgrant: Any suggestions on where I find the binaries for this upload: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libspf2/1.2.9-0ubuntu0.1
<wgrant> ScottK: Ahahahaha. 3 links that look like they might go somewhere, but all link to that page. Let's see if it's possible to get there without going via /ubuntu
<wgrant> ScottK: Aha. You can click on "Intrepid" in the SPP section, then look down the bottom.
<wgrant> But that's only because it's currently published in Intrepid.
<wgrant> If you wanted an old one, you'd need to click on Intrepid, click on a release in the portlet, click on a build, click on a resulting binary.
<wgrant> You know, I would report bugs on this, but I could just wait 8 months and fix them in an hour myself when LP is Freed. That will get them fixed faster.
<ScottK> ;-}
<ScottK> wgrant: In 8 months you can make patches.  It doesn't mean they'll actually get used.
<wgrant> ScottK: True.
<ajmitch> wgrant: you're optimistic if you think that it'd only take 1 hour to fix :)
<wgrant> ajmitch: It's just shuffling around a few links in the TAL.
<ajmitch> it's still zope
<wgrant> Heh.
<ajmitch> I shouldn't be such a pessimist, but it comes from having worked with plone again this week
<wgrant> Fortunately LP is not Plone. Nor Zope 2.
<ajmitch> I know
<wgrant> james_w: That UEHS change shouldn't take too much code, but I won't be able to get to it for a couple of weeks
<ajmitch> what is the change needed?
<wgrant> ajmitch: See http://jameswestby.net/weblog/ubuntu/04-revu.html
<james_w> wgrant: yeah, didn't think it would, and I would be happy to do it, but I would want to talk to you first.
<wgrant> It could even easily be done just by running two instances, only changing a couple of lines.
<ajmitch> running two instances seems like a bit of a waste
<wgrant> ajmitch: Why?
<ajmitch> just more duplication
<wgrant> Slightly.
 * ajmitch is still reading through to see just what changes james_w wants made to UEHS
<ajmitch> bother, hard to do test builds of syncs & merges on this laptop
<ajmitch> the infamous "No space left on device" problem
<wgrant> Aha.
<lifeless> ajmitch: bind mount to /dev/null
 * ajmitch just deleted some old WoW patches instead
<cyphermox> hi. I'm trying to package concordance, which is a library and utility to manage Logitech Harmony remotes, and I'd like to add a udev rules file (not provided from upstream), so that using sudo to run the utility wouldn't be necessary.. is that the right way to do things? also I'm wondering just how to add the file...
 * StevenK still has 2.5GB free on his WoW partition
<StevenK> I suspect the WotLK installer will want a fair bit more
<ajmitch> I don't run it on the laptop
<lifeless> StevenK: the 3.0.2 patch should be the bulk of it
<StevenK> lifeless: BC was still 4 CDs
<lifeless> StevenK: yes, but it could upgrade direct from 1.x
<StevenK> Ah
<lifeless> if you didn't buy BC you got the net upgrader to 2.0, which was a couple gb
<kc8tad> I'm not sure if this is an MOTU question but here goes. A buddy of mine installed his printer, a Toshiba eStudio2500c, and the driver that Ibex downloads has some dependencies. One of them being lsb-core which has postfix as a dependency. Is it *right* that postfix is installed and listening after installing a simple printer driver?!
<Yasumoto> So would something like meld be useful for visualizing changes to merge?
<pangloss> man, #ubuntu is wild
<SUNWjoejaxx> hello persia :)
<persia> Hi SUNWjoejaxx
<SUNWjoejaxx> persia: do you have a minute for a pm?
<SUNWjoejaxx> well actually an email would probably be better
<persia> If an email would be better, just send an email :)
<SUNWjoejaxx> persia: which email address would be best? your default one on lp?
 * persia checks LP
<persia> SUNWjoejaxx, The first listed would be fine.
<SUNWjoejaxx> alright
<SUNWjoejaxx> persia: i will send you an email off tomorrow :D i am going to retire for the evening
<SUNWjoejaxx> persia: goodnight
<persia> james_w, Just FYI, UEHS contains not only Ubuntu-local packages, but also packages orphaned in Debian.
<wgrant> persia: His blog post says "The
<wgrant> UEHS page also lists packages maintained by the Debian QA team "
<wgrant> Without that bad linebreak/
<persia> But my brain failed to process that bit :)
<huats> morning
<verwilst> hi
<verwilst> i'm looking for a sponsor
<verwilst> :)
<persia> verwilst, In what sense are you seeking a sponsor?
<NCommander> morning persia
<persia> evening NCommander
<NCommander> persia, how goes it?
 * NCommander is looking for a toolchain guru
<huats> morning persia and NCommander
<verwilst> persia: well, i'm maintaining a zabbix package in my ppa
<verwilst> and the "official" zabbix package kinda sucks.. bigtime..
<verwilst> so i would like to get my package into ubuntu
<persia> verwilst, OK.  How different is your package now?
<verwilst> well, it seems that the debian guys just did a "cp 1.4 1.6"
<verwilst> while a few new subpackages were introduced
<verwilst> i also updated the config files, and reworked the rules a bit to take the new subpackages into account
<persia> So you have the same upstream version, with just some packaging changes?
<verwilst> yeah
<verwilst> it's not from scratch :)
<persia> In that case, prepare a version for upload to jaunty (mostly just changelog adjustments: you want to clean up the PPA versions, etc.).  Collect a debdiff between that and the current version in Jaunty, and attach it to a bug against zabbix describing the improvements.
<verwilst> persia: excellent
<verwilst> persia: thanks, i will do tht
<verwilst> that
<persia> Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug, and someone will review it.  The queue is often reviewed in FIFO order, so it may be a while.
<verwilst> persia: 1.6 isnt in ubuntu yet though
<verwilst> only 1.4
<verwilst> persia: do i need to debdiff the debian 1.6 then?
<persia> verwilst, It would be better to debdiff against the Debian one then.  In that case, process it also as a merge.
<persia> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<verwilst> persia: hm, the jaunty package is rejected
<verwilst> Rejected: Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any
<verwilst> i don't see it on my ppa
<verwilst> and it's identical to my intrepid and hardy packages, only the changelog is changed
<wgrant> None of Jaunty's archs are enabled for PPAs yet.
<verwilst> that explains it :)
<wgrant> Needs an ~admin to flip a checkbox on a couple of DAS.
<persia> verwilst, Don't worry about not being able to upload to the PPA, just attach the debdiff.
<verwilst> persia: it's 2.5M
<verwilst> persia: is that big or normal? :)
<verwilst> (uncompressed )
<persia> verwilst, That's a *lot* of changes.  Is all of that intentional?
<verwilst> well it's a new version..
<verwilst> 1.6 > 1.6.1
<verwilst> maybe that has something to do with it?
<verwilst> and new sql files
<verwilst> and so on
<persia> Yeah.  That would do it.  If you're packaging 1.6.1, just attach your diff.gz to the bug.  Make sure the watch file works, so your sponsor can download the tarball from upstream.
<verwilst> hm, i don't have a diff.gz actually
<verwilst> zabbix_1.6.1~hardy2.dsc and zabbix_1.6.1~hardy2.tar.gz
<verwilst> same for intrepid
<verwilst> built it with debuild -S -sa
<verwilst> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zabbix/+bug/294604 looks fine to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294604 in zabbix "Request to import zabbix 1.6.1 from my PPA to universe" [Undecided,New]
<persia> verwilst, Well, we don't import directly from PPAs, except in very unusual circumstances.
<verwilst> oh
<persia> You'll want to attach your diff.gz, and I'd recommend titling the bug "Please upgrade zabbix to 1.6.1"
<verwilst> persia: any idea why i don't have a diff.gz?
<persia> verwilst, Did you create the orig.tar.gz file in the parent directory before you built the source package?
<verwilst> yeah
<verwilst> maybe it's the -sa?
<persia> Also, looking at your debdiff, you'll want to use 1.6.1-0ubuntu1 as the version, and consolidate all the PPA changelog entries into one changelog entry for inclusion.
<persia> Cold be the version number : you don't have a hyphen in your versions.
<verwilst> i don't have a hyphen(~)?
<persia> Right.
<verwilst> 1:1.6.1~intrepid2 ?
<persia> Typically, package versions in Ubuntu consist of $(upstream_version)-$(Debian revision)ubuntu$(Ubuntu revision)
<verwilst> yeah
<persia> When there's no hyphen, I think dpkg-source thinks you're building a native package.
<verwilst> but not for ppa's i guess
<verwilst> hm, so i should create another package ( outside of my ppa ) with -0ubuntu1
<verwilst> and attach that debdiff to the bugreport
<persia> Well, for PPAs, it's usually $(upstream-version)-$(Debian revision)ubuntu$(ubuntu-revision)~ppa$(PPA revision) or something.
<verwilst> oh
<persia> Right.  Don't upload this version to your PPA : it's for the primary repository.  Clean up the changelog, and when you get the diff.gz, attach that.
<directhex> gah @ ~ppa
<directhex> don't use ~ppa, people!
<verwilst> directhex: i switched from ppa to ~intrepid/... :)
 * directhex hands verwilst cake
<verwilst> directhex: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<verwilst> directhex: i guess this is the culprit then
<verwilst> it says "To do this, increase the Ubuntu version number and add a suffix of ~ppan (where n is your package's revision number). "
<persia> That's just bad advice.
<verwilst> "For example: you're creating an experimental version of the myapp_1.0.1 package. Your PPA package would be named myapp_1.0.2~ppa1. "
<directhex> it's filled with WRONG!
<persia> Well, the text is good, but the example is poor.
<persia> Just changing "myapp_1.0.1" to "myapp_1.0-1" would probably address 90% of the confusion.
<verwilst> which is the versioning i kept :)
<verwilst> yeah apparently
<directhex> ~ppa1 will be an acceptable suffix only when Quaint Quail is released
<directhex> after that, ~ppa1 is fine
<verwilst> doc FAIL?
<verwilst> :)
<persia> directhex, Um, are you confusing '-' and '~' ?
<directhex> persia, what version is given to ubuntu-backports versions?
<directhex> foover~${CODENAME}1
<persia> directhex, anyone who enables PPAs presumably prefers a PPA to a backport.
<directhex> persia, for the same foover?
<directhex> persia, if someone's using a PPA to try out a backport, before that backport goes "official", i'd take an official backport of the same version for preference. obviously the ppa would take precedence if it had genuinely newer packages
<directhex> ppa new ver > ubuntu backport > ppa backport > ubuntu update > ubuntu release
<persia> directhex, I guess.  Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone using a PPA.
<persia> I find it useful for complex build-dependency chains to detect packages that won't build if a library is updated, but end-user installation is fraught with peril.
<persia> verwilst, Documentation marginally improved.  Thanks for pointing that out.
<directhex> persia, strictly speaking, isn't an experimental version of myapp_1.0-1 a job for myapp_1.0-1+ppa1, snice your package is NOT based on myapp_1.0-2?
<persia> directhex, That's a fairly convincing argument.
<directhex> bureaucrat directhex, you are technically correct. the best kind of correct!
<persia> directhex, Actually, thinking about it, no, I don't think it's a job for +ppa1.  I might have thought so had you suggested that last year, but with so much time of people using  ~ppa1, it's probably hard to change now.
<persia> Consider that it's a ppa candidate for 1.0-2.
<directhex> persia, if it's a genuine candidate, then i agree
<persia> While this is exceedingly rarely actually true, but let's pretend.
<directhex> persia, if you're not in Uploaders:, then i agree rather less
<directhex> given we're talking about a debian versioned package here, Uploaders is relevant ^_^
<directhex> god, i'm such an asshole :)
<sebner> !ohmy | directhex
<ubottu> directhex: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sebner> :P
<directhex> sebner objects to donkeys?
<directhex> the rare burrowing donkey of kuala lumpur, which lives in holes?
<sebner> lol
<NCommander> o_o;
<NCommander> directhex, +1 on how explaining asshole is not indeed fowl language
 * NCommander runs from the horrible pun
<directhex> NCommander, added bonus: the avatar i use on forums is a feral chicken
<NCommander> Well, thats just foul
<NCommander> :-)
<persia> directhex, Yeah, well, let's ignore Debian/Ubuntu for PPAs for now :)
<sebner> NCommander: I think you won't be added as long as the official announcement is missing
<NCommander> -ENOCONTEXT
<persia> sebner, Well, it's more waiting on two more of us to send comments.  One of those should be there in the next few hours.  I don't know about the other.
<sebner> persia: dunno, NCommander said that the got this final +1 :P
<NCommander> persia, three, unless the MOTU council has five members
<sebner> NCommander: but don't worry I never thought something else than everybody gives you a +1
<NCommander> sebner, you are much more optimistic than I am ;-)
<sebner> NCommander: not optimistic but realistic ;)
<persia> MOTU Council does have 5 members.
 * NCommander thought it was six
<NCommander> SInce TB - 5 = 1
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> TB + 5 = 8
<NCommander> But there are 9 active members in the group
<persia> No, it's 5.
<NCommander> 3 + 5 = 8, but the team has 9
<NCommander> Am I missing something?
<wgrant> NCommander: The team itself counts.
<wgrant> A subteam counts as a member in that count,
<persia> So $(MC members) + TB + $(TB members) = 9.
<stefanlsd> A package has deviated from Debian wrt an init script, which may be ok for Ubuntu. Should we just sync for now to align with Debian and fix problems after, or should I test deb package and try merge?
<persia> It's always best to preserve any change in Ubuntu unless you are 100% certain that it has no end-user effect.
<persia> I'd recommend merging.  If the change is an improvement that would also be useful in Debian, it's worth checking the BTS to make sure there's already a bug filed with a patch for that improvement.
<persia> Note that some sponsors will expect you to work with the Debian maintainer to get it into Debian before accepting the merge if the fix is useful in Debian.  I'm not sure how strongly that attitude will prevail while Debian is mostly frozen though.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. in this case the package upstream went from 1.1.2 to 1.2.3 - i have a feeling that things changed with the program internally and the debian script is not that far off. but ok, i think i'll just test the .deb as is against the old bug and see if they address the same things
<persia> (note for those with an interest in new packages : fixing RC bugs in Debian is the fastest way to get new upstreams right now).
<persia> stefanlsd, Ah, if you've two separate changes to the same code, then yes, check against the bug, and if it's fixed, prefer the Debian solution to the Ubuntu solution.
<stefanlsd> persia: all of my merge packages, if its useful to debian i've been in contact with maintainers to fix and upload into unstable so we can sync.  Would way rather do that then do the same silly merges every cycle :)
<stefanlsd> especially so early in the cycle
<persia> stefanlsd, Then you've learned the secrets to having a small set of changes to merge :)
<stefanlsd> hehe.  does anyone have those need to merge maintained in bzr packages i could look at. I would like to start playing with those...
<persia> james_w claimed to have most packages in bzr a couple days ago.  Dunno if it's somewhere accessible.  If you just want to play, you might look at some of the packages that are bzr-maintained.
<james_w> they are not accessible yet, and unfortunately you won't be able to merge in bzr this cycle
<persia> james_w, The former I understand.  The latter confuses me.  As much as bzr doesn't match my personal workflows very closely, is there some reason that one can't merge a bzr-maintained package where there is a vcs.imports branch in LP?
<james_w> because there is no shared revision history yet
<james_w> next cycle the aim is to be able to merge from Debian, but you won't be able to merge from upstream
<james_w> that is a cycle 3 or 4 target
<persia> james_w, Hrm?  If I look at a package like grub-installer, it's maintained in bzr.  There's a vcs.imports branch that comes from alioth SVN.  The ubuntu branch is based off the alioth branch.  Why can't this merge?
<james_w> well you can do that now
<james_w> I'm talking about the general case
<persia> Ah, so it's about having it for every package, as opposed to the current 30-40 packages already set up?
<james_w> yeah
<stefanlsd> james_w: ok, so with packages already in bzr, we can branch - manually merge, push, debuild and then debdiff like normal?
<persia> OK.  Now I understand why I was confused :)
<james_w> those 30-40 packages took a reasonable amount of effort each to set up
<james_w> scaling that to 15000 packages hasn't worked, so we're working the other way round
<persia> Yeah.  Took me a few hours to organise one of them a couple months ago.  Not something I'd like to repeat.
<rrittenhouse> I'm not sure if this is the correct place but I noticed when I installed a Toshiba driver in ubuntu Ibex 64bit. I noticed that I later had postfix installed on my box and listening.
<ScottK> rrittenhouse: That's because lsbbase requires it and that's one of the requirements of your driver.
<rrittenhouse> =x thats horrible
<persia> Well, it's at least a bug worth filing.  Probably not that hard to fix : it just requires determining what LSB features the driver actually needs.
<RainCT> hey
 * RainCT is happy as he may get a proper Internet connection soon \o/
<rrittenhouse> ScottK, persia: i'm not over-reacting but isn't it dangerous for the unsuspecting user to have postfix installed just because they need to print? =/
<persia> RainCT, Really?  Congratulations!
<persia> rrittenhouse, that's why it's worth filing a bug :)
<rrittenhouse> haha, ok :)
<rrittenhouse> I just wanted to make sure I wasnt over-reacting or something.
<RainCT> persia: yep, there's now WiMAX available in our town :)
<rrittenhouse> RainCT: Nice. We all deserve a proper Internet connection :P
<persia> RainCT, Ah.  That makes more sense.  I didn't think you were likely to get a cable.
<persia> rrittenhouse, Well, I'm not sure about the severity.  I think the default postfix configuration is pretty safe, and it seems to have good security coverage, but it's definitely a bug.
<rrittenhouse> persia: Ok. I will write up a bug report. Thanks :)
<RainCT> persia: I don't really mind how it works, as long as it works better than 3G :)
<rrittenhouse> Actally, should it be assigned to the lsbcore package or ?
<persia> To the driver package.
<rrittenhouse> oh ok.
<jfcgauss_1> valkyrie (new version), a gui tool for valgrind 3.3.x, http://www.open-works.net/projects/valkyrie.html, is not present in ubuntu repositories. how/where do i make a request for inclusion? :)
<persia> http;//wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Skiessi> lmms package needs updating
<joaopinto> Skiessi, there are no updates for the current release except for SRUs
<joaopinto> Skiessi, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Skiessi> I meant jaunty
<persia> Skiessi, The plan is to try to get stuff into Debian first, which means getting Debian to release first.
<persia> If that doesn't cause lmms to be updated through autosync by the end of December, we'll probably pull a new version.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<NCommander> morning DktrKranz
<sebner> DktrKranz: ~Ãµ~
<DktrKranz> g'noon NCommander, sebner
<NCommander> DktrKranz, how goes it?
<NCommander> Does anyone here use dupload over dput? (and is there any advantage?)
<persia> dput is easier to type.
<sebner> xD
 * NCommander falls over
<NCommander> dput runs lintian. and I'm seeing what check version does
<sebner> persia: but you are right. you only use dput *.sources_changes so no need for options etc .. right?
<persia> Well, no, I run dput $(target) ...
<NCommander> my dput target is to my PPA
<NCommander> I figure I can't do any hard that way
<sebner> NCommander: GOOD point
<persia> I disabled the default target after pushing something by accident.
 * NCommander has uploaded Ubuntu packages to mentors, and Debian packages to REVU
<NCommander> -_-;
<RainCT> lol
<dfiloni> NCommander: congrats
<huats> NCommander: congrats !
 * DktrKranz has a dput alias: where_upload_matters
<NCommander> THat didn't take long
 * NCommander hugs geser 
<DktrKranz> NCommander: a BAD day, definitely!
<NCommander> DktrKranz, what, I can upload to universe. It will be FTBFS free in a week ;-)
<geser> NCommander: congrats
<NCommander> \o/
<NCommander> yay
<DktrKranz> NCommander: whoa! just noticed! congrats
 * NCommander watches his first upload get rejected to LP lameness
<porthose> NCommander: congrats
<NCommander> I will bet!
<nxvl> NCommander: congrats
<DktrKranz> NCommander: push crack! or automatix, your choice
<sebner> NCommander: now go and break stuff :P
<NCommander> woooooooooo
<NCommander> I'm in MOTU
<sebner> xD
<NCommander> I need to sponsor something or otherwise now use my GPG keys
<NCommander> for good that is
<sebner> NCommander: you can sponsor me :) or is DktrKranz still interested in audacious?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: progress in your NM?
<DktrKranz> sebner: go and kill someone else, thanks ;)
<sebner> hrhr
<NCommander> If my NM application moves today
<NCommander> I think I'll die of shock
<NCommander> oooh
<NCommander> its pretty
 * NCommander notes his list of teams gets longer ... and longer ...
<sebner> NCommander: well, If I would have your skills mentioned in your application I wouldn't be that worried/crazy xD
<DktrKranz> NCommander: "two is meigl che one" (italian reclame saying two is better than one)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, a person is smart, people are stupid
<NCommander> ;-)
<NCommander> So
<NCommander> Something to upload
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> something to upload
<DktrKranz> steal something from sebner
<NCommander> -ENOUPLOAD
<NCommander> sebner, need a sponsor?
<sebner> NCommander: bug #294072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294072 in audacious "Merge audacious 1.5.1-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294072
<sebner> thx =)
<sebner> ahoi mighty jono =)
<DktrKranz> and remember "-v" ;)
<NCommander> -v?
<NCommander> on dput?
<sebner> NCommander: debuild
<DktrKranz> debuild
 * NCommander acts dense
<NCommander> what does that do to debuild
 * NCommander never used it
<DktrKranz> it adds debian changelog entries
<RainCT> NCommander: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New :)
<sebner> RainCT: \o/
<sebner> NCommander: you never used debuild!?!? O_o
<DktrKranz> e.g. ubuntu has 0.1-1ubuuntu1 and you want to upload 0.1-2ubuntu1, you have to do debuild -S -v0.1-1ubuntu1 to include changes from 0.1-2
<RainCT> sebner: he never used -v, I guess
<sebner> ah
 * NCommander actually uses dpkg-buildpackage
<NCommander> DktrKranz, that sounds like a way to make my lifer easier
<NCommander> sebner, how did you test this patch?
<azeem> dpkg-buildpackage accepts that option as well
<sebner> NCommander: I already made a SRU with it :P
<NCommander> and is there a handy option to pull debian revisions ;-)?
 * NCommander feels like he's going to have to manage his sources.list
 * NCommander finds his key ID so I can actually sign the changes
<NCommander> sebner, if it builds, and is installable, I'll upload it
<NCommander> (and it runs and I don't see any major regressions)
<NCommander> The changelog checks out, every change in your debdiff matches what you says is left
<sebner> NCommander: MOTU don't trust anybody so don't trust me =)
<NCommander> I didn't say I trusted you ;-)
<sebner> heh
<DktrKranz> good boy, don't trust him at all
<sebner> xD
<DktrKranz> or make him pay you
<DktrKranz> trust is priceless, unless you give it a higher one
<NCommander> urgency=critical?
<DktrKranz> does LP care about urgency?
<geser> NCommander: if you are out of merges you can have mine, I'm currently too busy to look after them myself
<sebner> NCommander: remember. All of my stuff is critical :P
 * NCommander has the XUbuntu set, but he's waiting on cody-somerville on those
<NCommander> geser, I may take a look, no promises however
<geser> DktrKranz: no (not really)
<sebner> NCommander: how did you get this 80 lines thing with your application? That's terrible xD
<DktrKranz> sebner: really? mh... wasn't there "deserves-U.N.-attention" ?
<NCommander> sebner, what 80 lines thing?
<sebner> DktrKranz: U.N?
<DktrKranz> sebner: united nations
<sebner> DktrKranz: he?
<DktrKranz> sebner: your merges are so critical UN must approve a resolution to fix them ASAP :)
<sebner> NCommander: Did you let break your Mailapp your sentences? Because your application only shows 80 chars per line
<sebner> lol
 * NCommander uses gmail ...
<NCommander> so I'd say no
<sebner> DktrKranz: but hey, I made this merge ASAP
<NCommander> I just am very punctuational
<sebner> NCommander: kay
<DktrKranz> sebner: if you had superpowers...
<sebner> DktrKranz: It would have been uploaded already, right
<NCommander> sebner, it built
<NCommander> testing
<sebner> NCommander: of course I did both too, just for the record
<NCommander> I never upload without test building
<DktrKranz> mh... could someone please close my xml-utils sync request? pitti synced it right now, and I lack a browser...
<NCommander> (exception: uploads to a PPA)
<NCommander> sebner, why does audicious depend on audicous plugins
<NCommander> (is it a true dependency?)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: does that package even exist? :P
<sebner> NCommander: because *-plugins are important. both together are great but audacious without them ...
<NCommander> sebner, it doesn't work, no MP3s play
<NCommander> MADPlug-Message: failed to open audio output: XMMS reverse compatibility output plugin
<sebner> O_o
<sebner> NCommander: plugins installed?
<persia> DktrKranz, bug number?
<NCommander> sebner, installed
<NCommander> Setting up audacious-plugins (1.5.1-2ubuntu2) ...
<sebner> NCommander: O_o, working here. crazy. let me check later
<NCommander> sebner, ok, when I changed the setup in preferences to ALSA, it worked
<NCommander> I think PulseAudio is just broken on my machine
<sebner> NCommander: well audacious has a patch to set output to pulseaudio default
<NCommander> Right
<NCommander> Since Ubuntu uses PA by default
<NCommander> sebner, is there an actual depends on pulseaudio?
<NCommander> (or at least a recommends?)
<sebner> NCommander: AFAIK pulseaudio stuff was moved to *-plugins
<NCommander> sebner, strange
<NCommander> I think its a quirk on my system
<NCommander> It worked fine once I changed it to ALSA
<sebner> ^^
<NCommander> I'm hestiant to upload it if there is a chance its broken on PA
<persia> sebner, Erm, you might need to fiddle with the defaults.  I remember nenolod messing with things quite a bit to cleanly handle both Ubuntu and Debian.
<NCommander> sebner, sorry, I can't sponsor an upload that doesn't work out of the box
<NCommander> (pulseaudio is working, I just tried another app)
<sebner> persia: ah O_o, at least it's working here
<sebner> NCommander: ok, I'll recheck
<NCommander> sebner, here != everyone else
<NCommander> sebner, I'll dump the package onto my PPA, if someone else wants to test it
<sebner> NCommander: but better than nowhere :P
<NCommander> actually
<NCommander> can't do that since its a jaunty changelog
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> I'll put it aside
<NCommander> if you can retest and redetermine
<NCommander> I'll reconsider uploading ;-)
<NCommander> directhex, morning
<sebner> NCommander: sure, I'll check that later and let you know what's going on
<persia> sebner, Dunno.  That's a package I've been avoiding looking at in detail, so I'm just going by memory of backscroll.
<NCommander> who else had a NEEDSUPLOAD?
<sebner> persia: kk, thx anyway
<sebner> NCommander: look at u-u-s subscriptions :P
<james_w> NCommander: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<NCommander> I'm looking
<directhex> i'm back!
 * sebner would ACK a sync when he gets a MOTU
 * NCommander sees an FTBFS fix
<persia> james_w, Is that reliably up-to-date now?  Used to generally be 6-12 hours out.
<dfiloni> persia: what do you think about moving packages that depend on wx2.6 to wx2.8 for jaunty?
<james_w> persia: works fine for me
<persia> dfiloni, I think it's a beautiful idea.  You'd get super-extra-bonus-points if you managed to move ctsim to 2.8 as your first candidate.
<bddebian> heh
<persia> bddebian, "heh"?  You know you want to wave your pom-poms and sing when dfiloni does his magic.
<bddebian> Hells yeah, I just played with ctsim for a while myself. :)
<bddebian> Of course, I'm not too bright so...
<persia> I haven't looked at it since mid-September.  Have you heard anything more from upstream?
<bddebian> No, last I talked with them, they were still struggling (Of course at the time 2.8 was in Debian).
<dfiloni> wxwidgets2.4?! WTF?!
<persia> It's a pity.  There's probably 50 excited users of the software, and they *really* need it, but it's just not a large enough base that many can help.
<persia> dfiloni, See, that's why I mention it :)
<persia> It's the last one, or at least the last one anyone cares about.
<bddebian> Hmm, it was removed from testing
<NCommander> Wooo
<persia> But it shipped in intrepid.  I'm not tempted to drop it, although we'll follow Debian if nobody can fix it.  Porting to 2.6 or 2.8 would get it back into Lenny probably.
<NCommander> my first upload, and first sponsoring have been uploaded
<bddebian> dfiloni: If you could get it going you would be my hero.  Of course it's a very specialized app so testing might be a struggle.
<sebner> NCommander: I purged audacious completly away and installed it. Everything is working. Maybe someone else should test it!? (Be uses a freshly installed intrepid btw)
<sebner> btw, did the languagepacks break the build machines (intrepid) ^^
<persia> No, they're just clogging them.
<nenolod> audacious and ubuntu is not so great
<sebner> persia: kay
<sebner> nenolod: I use it without problems but right in the past there were some trouble
<nenolod> well, ubuntu used to apply a bunch of insane patches to it
<NCommander> sebner, it might be breaking on Jaunty
<NCommander> <- *is running jaunty*
<nenolod> sebner: i'm running audacious2 anyway.
<sebner> nenolod: heh
<sebner> NCommander: /me should upgrade
<nenolod> the packaging is different in audacious2
<nenolod> audacious2-plugin-pulseaudio, and so on.
<sebner> nenolod: well audacious2 is pretty svn right ;)
<nenolod> sebner: svn?
<nenolod> audacious presently have no website either
<nenolod> hostile coworker wiped out my server and then promptly got fired
<sebner> nenolod: yep but version 2 isn't released yet
<nenolod> sebner: we use hg, not svn
<sebner> nenolod: ah right, sry, but yeah, under heavy development
<NCommander> hey directhex
<directhex> NCommander, hm?
<NCommander> directhex, I just did my first upload ;-)
<directhex> yay!
<directhex> NCommander, debian, ubuntu main, or ubuntu universe?
<sebner> directhex: first uploads usually don't go to main  ^^
<NCommander> ubuntu universe
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> I should have uploaded to multiverse
<directhex> NCommander, i'll keep you in mind as a pet universe sponsor then. how about some silverlight goodness? ^_^
<NCommander> I thought silverlight was in main
 * Laney wibbles
<nenolod> sebner: audacious2 has a long ways to go, but both the audacious1-like interface plugin and minimal interface (built in) are fairly mature.
<Laney> congrats NCommander
<sebner> NCommander: I'll update now to jaunty (though I think that it doesn't differ that much already from intrepid)
<sebner> nenolod: nice =)
<directhex> NCommander, nah. nothing other than the rather unhelpful 2.1 classlib is in mono yet anyway - i.e. the plugin isn't
<directhex> NCommander, at any rate, nice work
<nenolod> sebner: the minimal interface presently looks like http://nenolod.net/~nenolod/audacious2-minimal-20081025.png
<NCommander> directhex, normal sponsoring rules apply
<directhex> NCommander, beer or spirits?
 * NCommander doesn't drink
<NCommander> Try again
<NCommander> bbl
<sebner> nenolod: cool =) final time of all tracks is missig :P
<sebner> *missing
<nenolod> sebner: it's provided by a tuplez script
<nenolod> sebner: but i don't have the status bar enabled where you would attach such a script
<sebner> nenolod: kay
<bddebian> \o/ Congrats NCommander
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<DktrKranz> RainCT: persia, already done. thanks anyway
<sebner1> bad jaunty. broke my system xD
<DktrKranz> sebner1: n00n
<sebner1> DktrKranz: can't make query (live cd). read it? what do you think (speaking secretly)
<NCommander> wow, lpia just hosed itself
<persia> sebner, Remember, the rule when upgrading to development releases is that you get to assemble the pieces any way you like.
<stefanlsd> NCommander: Congrats!!!!!!!
<NCommander> stefanlsd, thank you
 * geser updated only his development chroot to jaunty
<sebner1> persia: grrr -.- pulseaudio is broken and the fix upload is since two days on "dependency wait"
 * NCommander discovered how todo rebuilds
<sebner1> NCommander: pulse in jaunty is b0rken. upload audacious :P
<DktrKranz> sebner1: and most of all, do not install packages you touched
<NCommander> sebner, it is?
<persia> sebner, Surely you can build packages locally, no?  The order the buildds choose might not be the one that's best for you.
<sebner1> persia: well, wlan-internet is still only working with gui (maybe a intrepid reinstall is faster?)
<sebner1> NCommander: totally. broke my system
<NCommander> sebner1, are you sure we won't have to binary rebuild audacious after its uploaded?
 * persia points out the lack of binary rebuilds in Ubuntu and stares pointedly at the recently anointed
<sebner1> NCommander: well, I'd upload it but we can also wait until pulseaudio situation is fixed
<NCommander> persia, I know that, when I say binary upload, I mean no-changes changelog upload
<NCommander> (or the do-bin-rebuild script I may write for ubuntu-dev-tools)
<sebner1> NCommander: well, pulseaudio is not a rebuild thing for audacious
<NCommander> sebner, no, I mean will audacious have to be rebuilt later?
<sebner1> NCommander: because of pulseaudio? I don't think so
<NCommander> (aka, is the change to pulseaudio a transition)
<NCommander> Think, or know ;-)? *is teaching you to think like an MOTU*
<sebner1> hrhr
<persia> NCommander, Please don't create such a script.  There are several floating about already, but they are all unsafe in one way or another, and making it safe isn't worth it considering that there's about 15 of us who do anything about NBS intentionally.
<sebner1> NCommander: I ask the guys who broke my system
<NCommander> sebner, well, here are the handy hints for the future
<NCommander> if pulseaudio's upload had an ABI bump, or created an NBS, or soname change, that means if I upload now, and its build before the current pulseaudio, it could be bad (its unlikely, but when you do an upload, you need to think on how changes will affect the archive)
<sebner1> NCommander: Ah, you are right, haven't dealed with that stuff yet. I'll keep that in mind for future (and if I have a working system again)
<NCommander> Well, reviewing the changelog of pulseaudio, it doesn't say anything transitions so its safe
<NCommander> (and I don't see anything in the debdiff to suggest it will break)
<RainCT> NCommander: btw, how can I tell pg_dump to use the revu user?
<NCommander> pg_dump -u revu1
<NCommander> sebner1, so given the information I've given you. Upload [y|n]?
<sebner1> NCommander: y with a hug
<RainCT> NCommander: ah, I had tried that but misspelled "revu" :P. thx
 * NCommander mulls it over to make sure he's not overlooking something
<ScottK> NCommander: Congratulations.
<NCommander> Hey ScottK
<ScottK> NCommander: Heya.  So the answer is no.  I won't sponsor your upload.
<NCommander> ScottK, but I have a main one :-)
 * sebner1 also asks himself why lilo got installed xD
<NCommander> sebner1, ok
 * NCommander breaks out the GPG key
 * sebner1 hugs NCommander and reinstalls intrepid
<NCommander> sebner1, uploading
<sebner1> nice to have a seperated /home ^ ^
<jdong> sebner1: you don't need a separate /home to reinstall preserving /home :)
<sebner1> jdong: I heard about that but I'm and old man :P
<jdong> :)
<NCommander> sebner, accepted
 * sebner1 ^5 NCommander =)
<NCommander> ^5
<sebner1> BAD BOY
<sebner1> NCommander: it seems you forgot the -v option!?
<NCommander> What did I do?
<persia> Failed to include the debian changelog in the .changes file?
<sebner1> NCommander: debuild -v :P
<NCommander> Uh oh
<sebner1> persia: exactly
 * NCommander assumes the position
<persia> NCommander, That's twice.  Please take extra care, as that means that people are getting unannounced changes on their systems.
<sebner1> jdong: but tell me. how to preserve home without /home :)
<NCommander> persia, I did the -v on the mtd-utils upload O_O;
<NCommander> debuild -S -v
 * persia should actually read -changes rather than trusting backscroll
<jdong> sebner1: in the live installer, use the filesystem as / but don't check format
<jdong> sebner1: the installer will tell you it wants to rm -rf everything but /home
<sebner1> jdong: what a nice feature =) but me feels more save with /home nevertheless
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> I see the change in .changes now w/ -v
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> (-v is not in debuild's manpage)
<sebner1> but on RainCT's wikipage \o/
<Laney> NCommander: It's part of dpkg-buildpackage
 * NCommander never saw that on the wiki :-/
<sebner1> I should have asked sabdfl if we plan to make ubuntu install faster (I heard foresight installs in 8 minutes)
 * NCommander finds something else to merge and upload so I can redeem myself
<sebner1> lol
<ScottK> NCommander: Go do spambayes.  I'm sick of it.
<NCommander> is it a merge, or?
<ScottK> NCommander: Merge
 * NCommander grumbles
<RainCT> NCommander: Do you know how I can get that entry with the highest upid when I do "SELECT DISTINCT sid"?
<NCommander> SELECT DISTINCT max(sid)
<NCommander> or something like that
<RainCT> NCommander: tried with that and now it says   ERROR:  column "upload.upid" must appear in the GROUP BY clause or be used in an aggregate function
<RainCT> not sure how to fix that :S
<NCommander> I dunno remember enough SQL to fix that offhand
<dfiloni> persia: I'm unable to fix ctsim :(
<persia> dfiloni, Do you understand how it's broken?  I couldn't get it to produce output I could use to even dig in much.
<dfiloni> persia: I haven't tried it, I've tried to make it using wx2.6/2.8
<persia> Yeah.  I got it to compile against 2.6 with a bit of fussing, but it segfaulted in ways I didn't understand.
<dfiloni> persia: debian bug 462189 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 462189 in ctsim "wxwindows2.4 is scheduled to be removed" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/462189
<persia> Well, I've been periodically trying to port ctsim since Feisty, but it's the same sort of issue.
<persia> The only reason I'm interested in WX at all is because I wanted to drop wxwindows2.4
<persia> The newer versions aren't as exciting to me, mostly because they mostly work.  2.4 is broken in UTF-8 locales, holds up the gtk1.2 purge, is unsupported upstream, is packaged in a spectacularly unique fashion, and is generally buggy.
<dfiloni> persia: I'm interested in wx because it was my first package, but I don't use it
<persia> Yes, but you actually have a working relationship with upstream, and a decent sense of how it should be organised :)
<dfiloni> however ctsim is evil...
<persia> Well, it's special.  It uses WX in a different way.
<ScottK> Looks like the Debian solution was to kick it out of Lenny.
<dfiloni> persia: http://lists.b9.com/pipermail/ctsim-users/2007-August/000075.html
<persia> dfiloni, I didn't get that last time I tried it.  Are you getting it now?
<dfiloni> I actually get views.cpp:396: error: âclass wxWindowâ has no member named âGetTitleâ etc...
<persia> ScottK, Yes, but removal of a working package just because it uses a buggy library hasn't generally been supported in Ubuntu, as long as the package remains in Debian.  ctsim works, and doesn't seem to trigger most of the standard WX bugs, it just fails when ported, which is the frustrating bit.
<sebner> back guys ^^ on solid intrepid
<NCommander> wb sebner
<sebner> NCommander: ty
<NCommander> is there a way I can make debuild -v the default?
<ScottK> NCommander: How would it know what number to put after the v?
<ScottK> NCommander: grabmerge.sh includes a script that'll do that for you.
<NCommander> so I want to do -v*last upload?*
<persia> -v$(current version in jaunty)
<NCommander> hey emgent
<emgent> NCommander: welcome and congrats
<NCommander> emgent, thanks :-)
 * sebner winks ember 
 * sebner winks emgent 
<emgent> lol
<emgent> :)
<emgent> hi setanta
<emgent> s/setanta/sebner/
<setanta> ops
<setanta> :)
<sebner> ember: lol :P
 * dfiloni thinks that this is the ping war
<sebner> dfiloni: thanks for your comment on audacious ;D
<dfiloni> there is a my comment?
<dfiloni> :P
<sebner> sure :P
 * sebner currently installs 737MB, maybe I should install nexuiz later (~350MB) ^^
<homy> hi, I have a question about making debian packages: Whenevery I try to change a binary file, like an image, I get an error when running debuild that tells me it can't represents the binary change.
<homy> Of course, this makes sense, but how *can* you change/add a binary file?
<dfiloni> homy: you can encode and during build decode it, you can use uuencode and uudecode
<dfiloni> in order to do this
<RainCT_> homy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/BinaryFilesInDiff
<homy> RainCT_: thanks, thats exactly what I wanted to do!
<homy> Thanks dfiloni, you also answered my question :)
 * RainCT_ prepares to break REVU *evil grin*
<gouki> If I want to copy a folder (irssistats) on debian/ to /var/www/ - cp $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats/var/www/
<gouki> Would this do it?
<RainCT> gouki: no, you can't move a directory into itself :P
<gouki> True! :)
<RainCT> gouki: if they had different names then yet, but it's better to use dh_install for this :)
<RainCT> argh, s/move/copy/.. why do I keep saying "move"? XDD
<gouki> RainCT so could it be this?  cp $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats /var/www/
<RainCT> gouki: no, you can't have a directory named irssistats in debian/ if the binary package is called the same
<nxvl> gouki: can't you just untar that into the folder
<nxvl> instead of cping?
<gouki> RainCT, ohh, OK.
<nxvl> gouki: where is the source of that package
<nxvl> also, have you already some debsource i can take a look at
<nxvl> to have the whole picture
<RainCT> gouki: if you had debian/stuff/irssistats then yes, you could do   cp $(CURDIR)/debian/stuff/irssistats $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats/var/www/
<gouki> nxvl, untar? That would result in allot of unneeded stuff.
<nxvl> oh, ok
<RainCT> gouki: but I'd be better to use    dh_install debian/stuff/irssistats var/www/
<gouki> nxvl, I have it almost ready, but this cp thing is preventing me from putting it on REVU
<nxvl> upload it
<gouki> RainCT, OK. I'll read the man for dh_install
<nxvl> just to give a look and have the whole picture of what are you trying to achieve
<gouki> nxvl, like it is now, without the cp fule or dh_install?
<nxvl> and what's what you have
<gouki> OK
<gouki> RainCT, didn't know dh_install was that simple to use :)
<nxvl> actually revu is a package-draft repo, not a package repo
<nxvl> so it won't hurt
<gouki> nxvl, OK
<nxvl> debhelper ROCKS!
<gouki> Turning VM on now.
<nxvl> lunch time
<nxvl> brb
<gouki> Just one more thing ... Another package I would like to upload but can't is hydra, mostly because of this:
<gouki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=258057
<ubottu> Debian bug 258057 in hydra "Hydra is not really free" [Unknown,Closed]
<gouki> That first post about LICENCE.HYDRA.
<gouki> What do you guys recommend?
<RainCT> that should be OK for multiverse
<RainCT> ah, wait
<RainCT> you can't
<gouki> I've read it can't be distributed even in non-free, in Debians case, but why, RainCT
<gouki> ?
<RainCT> gouki: because the GPL and OpenSSL licenses are incompatible
<gouki> Ohh, that.
<RainCT> gouki: so if I understood that correctly you may have a chance to get it into multiverse if you ask upstream to add an exception to make it compatible with the OpenSSL
<azeem> if upstream adds an exception, it can go into universe I'd say
<persia> Well, either that, or compile it without OpenSSL support, although that might annoy users.
<gouki> persia, yes, I thought about that, but the application loses quite a few useful features.
<gouki> I didn't packaged it with SAP support, but that's a minor thing.
<RainCT> azeem: it doesn't allow commercial use, so no
<RainCT> Er, I'm stupid today xD. It doesn't allow to sell it except of low fees the transmission medium. Not sure if that's considered free
<azeem> oh, I only read "GPL", sorry
<RainCT> azeem: it adds custom clauses
<ScottK> RainCT: No commercial use can go in Multiverse.
<RainCT> ScottK: that's what I said :)
 * ScottK reads the rest of the scrollback ...
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> srry
<gouki> So, long story short ... No way to include it.
<gouki> Ohh well, was worth the try. Learned a few things :)
<RainCT> gouki: if upstream doesn't add a clause for it to be compatible with OpenSSL, no
<gouki> Ok, before submitting it to REVU ...
<gouki> A configuration file. Can it be cp'ed or is there a another way?
<RainCT> gouki: dh_install :P
 * gouki is starting to like dh_install allot
<gouki> Thanks RainCT :)
<gouki> BTW ... Used it for /var/www ... Didn't gave me any output and I don't see anything changed ... Normal?
<RainCT> gouki: dpkg-deb --contents *deb
<RainCT> gouki: does that list the files in /var/www?
<gouki> RainCT, I still haven't build the package, but I'll check.
<RainCT> gouki: where are you looking then? dh_install is only executed when you build it
<gouki> I'm manually doing dh_install source targe
<gouki> Inside the folder which is going to be built.
<joaopinto> talking about REVU, is anyone looking at it ?
<RainCT> persia: Do you happen to know in how many hours tomorrow's REVU Day starts? :P
<joaopinto> I have a package sitting around since August, it did not go into Intrepid, and at the current review rate, it will not get into Jaunty either
<RainCT> joaopinto: yeah, intrepid was a pretty bad cycle, wrt new packages
<RainCT> joaopinto: if you stay around on IRC and ask for your package to be reviewed from time to time (especially on Fridays) you should have relativelly good chances of getting it into Jaunty :)
<persia> RainCT, which day is "tomorrow" for you?
<joaopinto> RainCT, I did that, several days, it was not sufficient, and that is not pratical either
<persia> Friday started about 9 hours ago.
<persia> Maybe 10.
<RainCT> persia: 7th
<RainCT> oh
<persia> Yeah.  It started 9-10 hours ago.
 * persia checks the real time
<RainCT> joaopinto: but it will be different this cycle (or at least that's what I hope :))
<geser> RainCT: you should know that REVU days are around 48 hours long (or so)
<persia> Yeah, it's 9:35am in Kiritimati
<persia> 49:30 :)
<RainCT> geser: I know they are long, but not how long :)
<RainCT> persia: thanks
 * persia discovers that it's 10:36 in Enderbury, which is even better.
<joaopinto> RainCT, sure, judging from the discussion on the ML, I will not be able to upload, which is probably less frustrating than waiting :)
<persia> UTC+14 is such a handy timezone, and one I previously didn't know existed.
<RainCT> joaopinto: lol. for now, that's just a discussion :P
<persia> joaopinto, Are you not an Ubuntu Member yet?  You've been fiddling with Ubuntu packaging for a while now.
<persia> Mind you, it's not all been here, but we're glad to have you more involved :)
<joaopinto> I have applied for mentorship a few months ago, I was told since I have packaging experience I just need to get more involved, my attempt was REVU since my main work is with new packages
<persia> I thought you also did a lot of stuff with new upstreams for existing packages.
<persia> And I'm sure the backporters team would welcome some help.
<jpds> Evening.
<NCommander> and I'm back
<NCommander> and my lunch is suffering from a FTLBS, or a dep-wait
 * NCommander can't figure out which
<joaopinto> I am not aligned with the backporting scope/process, I will keep trying on new packages :P
<persia> jpds, Good evening.  Some time ago, I promised to twit you about the irssi firmware workaround, but it's since been discussed enough that there's no point in adding to it.
<persia> joaopinto, Fair enough.
<RainCT> hey jpds
<NCommander> I'm curious who from here will be attending the Cruft classroom
<jpds> persia: Yes, I saw - I couldn't add to the discussion at the time as I just got back by net connection.
<persia> jpds, Wow!  That's a while without a net connection.
<iulian> G'evening, jpds.
<jpds> persia: About a month... yeah.
<jpds> Hey iulian.
 * NCommander needs to find something he can use as a transition example
<jcastro> NCommander: 10 minute warning!
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> Damn it
<NCommander> My workshop is going to be semi-suck because I didn't get a chance to find a good cruft example in the archive
<NCommander> and I haven't had time to make one
<persia> NCommander, wxwindows2.4 is the ultimate example of cruft.
<laga> NCommander: so what? we had a ubuntu install party today and nobody showed up :)
<NCommander> persia, do you know anything in universe that can simply go 2.4 -> 2.6
<NCommander> ctsim
<NCommander> Why is that broken?
<persia> We already did all the ones that work.  ctsim is broken.
<NCommander> What's wrong w/ ctsim?
<persia> That's a question nobody has yet been able to answer.
<NCommander> Does it even compile?
<persia> It compiles against 2.6, and segfaults when you run it.
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Well
<persia> It doesn't segfault if you compile against 2.4.
 * NCommander is going to be debugging and teaching at the same time
<nxvl> NCommander: are you a DD already?
<NCommander> nxvl, no, but I can get something in the Debian archive in a pitch if needbe
<NCommander> nxvl, what do you need
<nxvl> NCommander: so you can sponsor a package?
<nxvl> NCommander: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=augeas
<nxvl> NCommander: it's a package update
<NCommander> Oh, its an update?
<NCommander> nxvl, does it fix an RC bug?
<nxvl> nop, but it's going to sid
<NCommander> asac, ping
<NCommander> nxvl, I'll ping my debian sponsors and see who's feeling in a favorable upload mood
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> thank you
 * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
<persia> nxvl, The best way to get it in is to fix an RC bug and then ask for a sponsor :)
<NCommander> who here is going to be attending my cruft lesson?
 * RainCT after dinner
<nxvl> persia: that's why we are organizing a RC bug squashing party on sunday
<persia> Why wait?
<nxvl> cause i'm quite busy right now
<nxvl> :D
<persia> Ah.
<nxvl> i update that package while i'm waiting for another package to upload
<fabrice_sp> NCommander: It is in #ubuntu-meeting, right?
<nxvl> fabrice_sp: ubuntu-classroom
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: #ubuntu-classroom
<NCommander> #ubuntu-classroom
<NCommander> sebner, you should attend
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
<NCommander> persia, ctsim doesn't even build with 2.6 here
<sebner> NCommander: hmm? what? Sry, I didn't read here
<NCommander> sebner, I'm teaching a cruft lesson
<NCommander> You may want to attend
<sebner> NCommander: I love cruft
<sebner> =)
<sebner> NCommander: Thx for the hint, I'll participate (besides writing/sending MOTU application) xD
<NCommander> sebner, 1 minute
<persia> NCommander, Oh, yeah, but the patch to make it build with 2.6 is floating about.  I think there's a copy in the BTS, if you don't see it in LP.
<RainCT> sebner: have you packaged something already? *g*
<persia> Packaging something from scratch isn't a requirement for MOTU.  I certainly hadn't when I became MOTU.  On the other hand, doing a few difficult things is, and sometimes packaging something new can be a good example.
 * sebner hugs persia 
<sebner> persia: you got a mail btw :P
 * ScottK knows at least one person who got core-dev without doing a new package.
<sebner> ScottK: you also have a mail
<sebner> :P
<ajmitch> good morning
<sebner> ajmitch: hi =) Though here it's evening =)
<persia> sebner, I'll carefully put it with the 10,000 others in the queue, but I promise yours will get more priority than most.
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<sebner> persia: because it's MOTU or because of me :P
<ajmitch> persia: #4,999 in the queue?
<RainCT> persia, ScottK: yeh I know. I just like it to annoy sebner :D
<sebner> therefore RainCT also got a mai
<sebner> +l
<sebner> ^^
 * geser finished today two applications just to see two new applications appear :/
<sebner> Many got a mail
<sebner> geser: you also got a mail
<sebner> xD
 * sebner is just crazy now
<sebner> sry
 * ajmitch is glad to not receive email
<sebner> hrhr
<RainCT> sebner: wow, nice CC list
<sebner> RainCT: I need +1's :P
<sebner> persia: I also sent one to norsetto, maybe he replies so we see that he is alive :)
<sebner> RainCT: *fanboys*
<ScottK> ajmitch: But you like bitter, so maybe we should arrange some then.
<ajmitch> ScottK: why do you think I like bitter?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Dunno.  Maybe that was me.
<RainCT> sebner: the second point in the future goals list is a direct -1 :D
<ScottK> Spamassassin is an interesting pacakge.  It looks like it takes longer to build the documentation than the actual package.
<sebner> RainCT: what's that again? ^^
<RainCT> sebner: C# ^^
<sebner> RainCT: I won't steal gbrainy =)
<sebner> geser: I hope it's ok that I CC'ed you though you are member of MC
<woody86> jdong- Hey, thanks for the name change :)
<RainCT> sebner: I only maintain gbrainy because I hope for its author to be enlighed some day and redo it in a proper language *g*     (</jk)
<sebner> RainCT: ahahahahahahaha! xD xD xD
<RainCT> now that's a scary laughter!  /me hides
<ScottK> OK.  6 uploads and two backports requests later, I think I'm done with Spamassassin.
<ajmitch> yes, sebner is a scary individual
 * sebner hides
<RainCT> sebner: btw, how many things do you have tp sponsor? :P
<ajmitch> time to try & get this jaunty pbuilder working
<sebner> RainCT: a lot = +1 , nothing = -1? ^^
<RainCT> sebner: you got it
<DktrKranz> sebner, I'd say the opposite
<ajmitch> how many have you tested & for how many merges have you pushed the patches upstream?
<sebner> ajmitch: are you talking to me?
<ajmitch> yes
<geser> sebner: no problem
<sebner> ajmitch: patches -> debian. That reminds me that I have to forwad 1,2 to debian. Thx
<RainCT> sebner: what's YRB?
<sebner> RainCT: I can't say that without getting a ohmy  ^^
 * quadrispro is away: Away
 * sebner also for a while
<DktrKranz> ScottK, NCommander: could you please have a look at bug 294180 and give an opinion about it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294180 in usb-creator "Backport usb-creator" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294180
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I'm in -classroom ATM
<DktrKranz> whoops :(
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, did you read my email?
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, which one
<DktrKranz> I think I've lost it ;)
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, about afbackup
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, no, probably I've got it in office, could you re-send it?
<quadrispro> yes, of course
<ajmitch> ScottK: is there much functional difference in using pbuilder from hardy compared to the one you've backported?
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, another thing: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, ah, finally :)
<quadrispro> yes :)
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, I've just re-send the mail
<RainCT> quadrispro: I've just had a fast look at it. Looks pretty good, but perhaps the description could be improved a bit (I don't understand what it's supposed to do only by reading it)
<ScottK> ajmitch: I've just used it the same way I always do.  Looking at debian/changelog I think it's mostly bug fixing/minor improvements.
<quadrispro> RainCT, you're right, I'm trying to write a more accurate description
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Needs testing before I can do anything with it.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I'll ask reporter to provide common use cases, just to make sure it works
<DRebellion> Hey! Unfortunately, I'm getting an error whilst trying to create my jaunty pbuilder chroot: "E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty". I have intrepid-backports enabled, but it seems I'm not getting a recent enough version of debootstrap?
<chrisccoulson> i don't think a newer version has been backported yet has it?
<chrisccoulson> oh, it has
<DRebellion> chrisccoulson, =/
<chrisccoulson> DRebellion - bug 294153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294153 in intrepid-backports "Please backport debootstrap 1.0.10ubuntu1 from Jaunty to Intrepid and Hardy" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294153
<DRebellion> chrisccoulson, packages.ubuntu.com says its not in intrepid-backports
<NCommander> DktrKranz, care to look at this? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtd-utils/+bug/294428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294428 in mtd-utils "mtd-utils build fail" [Undecided,Fix released]
<chrisccoulson> DRebellion - it's still queued for building
<DRebellion> chrisccoulson, ah, thank you.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, applying such patch won't harm, but avoid implementing a patch system if there isn't one already
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I was just going to take the jaunty package and tweak it for proposed
<DktrKranz> better applying it inline
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> k
<DktrKranz> no harm, but changes introduced are much lower
<persia> Note that this applies for packages also in Debian.  For Ubuntu-local packages, if they aren't maintained in a VCS somewhere, adding a patch system is considered a good thing.
<DktrKranz> not for SRUs, we usually avoid touching how packages are built
<persia> Oh, yeah.  Adding a patch system is never right for an SRU :)
<DktrKranz> there are exceptions, of course, but usually it's better not impementing a patch system while doing SRUs
<NCommander> ah
 * NCommander nods
<persia> What would be an exception?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I assume I still however do update-maintainer on an SRU
<DktrKranz> e.g. .orig.tar.gz which contains a .tar.bz2 archive which get uncompressed at build-time
<NCommander> -1 -> -1ubuntu0.1 w/ the new maintainer, right?
<persia> Ah, right.  I suppose it's unavoidable in that circumstance.
<NCommander> Or do I not even touch the maintainer for SRUs?
<DktrKranz> plr for feisty (IIRC) was a good example of it
<DktrKranz> NCommander, you have to mangle it
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> Just making sure (I figured as much since it is policy, but I wasn't sure if SRUs were different)
<NCommander> which brings up the second question
<NCommander> How do you specifically use debuild -v?
<NCommander> What do I give as the changelog?
<DktrKranz> you can always use it
<NCommander> I'm sorta confused on what I give it as an arguement
<DktrKranz> latest ubuntu version
<NCommander> So 1ubuntu0.1?
<persia> Do we do maintainer-mangling for SRUs to Dapper?  I'd think not, as the maintainer change didn't happen until feisty.
<NCommander> (in this case?)
<DktrKranz> persia, maintainer mangling is for >= gutsy
 * persia remembers mangling maintainers for feisty, but as it's EOL now, I suppose it doesn't matter
<DktrKranz> yes
 * NCommander thinks he managed the one SRU he did to dapper and whistles innocently
<DktrKranz> it was included in feisty, but feisty is old now
<persia> NCommander, Your public wants you.
<NCommander> persia, I saw
<ajmitch> let the world burn in flames...
<Laney> soren, geser: Do you know if the patch 0900-compile-against-linux-libc-dev.patch in iptables is needed?
<persia> Laney, Does it compile without it?  Does the result work?  With a name like that, I'd suspect you'd get a build failure if you skipped it.
<Laney> It doesn't even apply
<Laney> and I can't find where it was introduced
<Laney> it might have been 012-2.6.22-headers-fix.patch
<Laney> nope..
<persia> ((ntohl(a->in6_u.u6_addr32[(l) / 32]) >> (31 - ((l) & 31))) & 1) -> ((ntohl(a->__in6_u.__u6_addr32[(l) / 32]) >> (31 - ((l) & 31))) & 1) looks like it could be a significant change though : I'd expect a compilation failure without it if it7s still needed.  If it compiles, you probably don't need it.
<Laney> Right, I haven't got that far yet
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, new upload -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<quadrispro> RainCT, what do you think about this? -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/installation-report-generator-0811062218/installation-report-generator_0.1.6-0ubuntu1.diff
<RainCT> quadrispro: have you changed anything beside the license headers?
<iulian> emgent: Hi, are you working on gkrellm merge?
<quadrispro> RainCT, I'm looking to those errors, but no, I didn't change anything
<ajmitch> can someone kindly stab gcc for me, please?
 * iulian kindly stabs gcc.
<ajmitch> thank you
<lifeless> stabbing you softly forever
<iulian> Don't mention it.
<emgent> iulian: feel free to take it
<quadrispro> RainCT, ah! does every file have to contain license header?
<lifeless> its up the to the upstream authors
<quadrispro> *every .py*
<iulian> emgent: Cool, thanks.
<lifeless> recommended practice by the FSF for the use of the GPL is to put it in every file
<emgent> iulian: np, thanks to you
<lifeless> but it probably depends on the definition of 'work' in copyright law whether that is pragmatic or required in a particular region
<quadrispro> ah
<iulian> emgent: By the way, I made a diff between the old ubuntu .dsc file and the new one and it has ~47,000 of lines (it's a new upstream release). I guess there is no problem attaching it to LP, right?
<ScottK> iulian: Not much point is there?
<lifeless> iulian: yeah, it's fine.Might want to zip it if its getting big
 * ScottK doesn't imagine anyone is actually going to manually review a 47K lines diff.
<iulian> Yea, that's what I thought...
<lifeless> a interdiff might be more useful
<lifeless> what was the patchset carried, and whats the new patchset carried
<persia> For  new upstream, we generally recommend attaching a diff.gz.  It's easy enough to reconstruct the package from the diff.gz, and the sponsor can produce their favorite comparison format.
<iulian> OK, thanks persia.
 * iulian files a bug and attaches the diff.gz.
<pochu> DktrKranz, nxvl: hi, would you mind having a look at bug 292870 for an Intrepid SRU? There's a debdiff attached, and the fix is 2 lines :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292870 in pyxine "package python-pyxine-dbg : update-python-modules: error: Trying to overwrite pyxine-0.1alpha2.egg-info which is already provided by /usr/share/python-support/python-pyxine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292870
<DktrKranz> pochu, do you plan to fix it for hardy too?
<pochu> DktrKranz: there's no -dbg package in hardy, so no conflict there
<DktrKranz> ah, cool ;)
<pochu> :)
<DktrKranz> go ahead
<pochu> DktrKranz: thanks
<pochu> uploaded
<soren> Laney: I don't think it is needed, no.
<Laney> awesome
<soren> persia: It's not actually a patch to fix an ftbfs. It was a patch to make sure iptables was compiled against linux-libc-dev rather than a random set of kernel headers.
<RainCT> quadrispro: btw, could you add a watch file?
<persia> soren, Given the content of the patch, and that description, I'm confused, but as I've never looked at that code, I'll trust you :)
<soren> persia: I agree it's rather spethial :)
<quadrispro> RainCT, yes
<DktrKranz> fta, regarding bug 272959, is it OK to upload revisions to fix it if firefox-3 compatibility is confirmed, or it's better wait for firefox-2 removal?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272959 in webdeveloper "Packages that depend on firefox-2 or firefox should just depend on firefox" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272959
<fta> DktrKranz, firefox-2 has been removed already
<DktrKranz> oh, I didn't notice it
<DktrKranz> so I guess it's fine
<fta> !info firefox-2
<ubottu> Package firefox-2 does not exist in intrepid
<pochu> DktrKranz: bug 292644 has a patch for an SRU too, it's a one liner :) if you have one minute
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292644 in gst-plugins-ugly0.10 "package gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-dbg failed to install/upgrade: intentando sobreescribir `/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstcdio.so', que est? tambi?n en el paquete gstreamer0.10-plugins-good-dbg" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292644
<pochu> DktrKranz: I've just uploaded the fix to Jaunty, and Debian has the fix in svn (not in the archive yet, otherwise I'd have synced)
<DktrKranz> pochu, done
 * pochu hugs DktrKranz :)
 * DktrKranz hugs pochu back and blames himself for not noticing that in time for the release
<pochu> DktrKranz: don't blame yourself, the bug was reported after the release and noone noticed it before
<pochu> luckily it's in a dbg package, so few people is affected
<DktrKranz> I like upgrade path failures
<DktrKranz> but I have no chance to get them sorted
<pochu> if it was in the real plugin package, we would have had tons of duplicates ;)
<DktrKranz> definitely
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, are you MOTU-SRU? I remember well? ;)
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, you know it perfectly ;)
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, bug 292696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292696 in ytnef "ytnef missing package dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292696
<Laney> YES
<Laney> EAT THAT, IPTABLES
<Laney> soren: Bug #294220 for you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294220 in iptables "Please merge iptables 1.4.1.1-4 with Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294220
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-07
<Laney> soren: I will forward it to debian after your review, ok?
<TheMuso> NCommander: Re darkroom, was there no newer version in Debian to merge with?
<NCommander> TheMuso, not even packaged in Debian
<TheMuso> ncOh ok.
<TheMuso> NCommander: oh ok
<persia> Three cheers for UEHS!
<wgrant> What has it done now?
<persia> Well, it no longer has darkroom for one.
<NCommander> THat was FAST
 * NCommander only uploaded less than 15 minutes ago
<wgrant> Hmm, the watch wizard doesn't seem to be working at all.
<persia> popcon count seems missing too.
<wgrant> Right, Ubuntu popcon is old.
<wgrant> Debian popcon gives a more machine-friendly database format.
<persia> Is that something easy to work around, or is it better to complain to the popcon people?
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> They've published the script to create the DB from the raw results now.
<persia> Does anyone know if there's a schroot command to delete a schroot entirely, or do I need to manually remove it from the conf, and lvremove the volume?
<wgrant> persia: I think you need to do it manually.
<persia> pity.  Thanks.
<NCommander> I need a chemist, anyone around?
<coppro> no chemistry skill here, why?
<NCommander> gamgi got uploaded.
<NCommander> I ran the tutorial which was a good enough for me to upload it (since my results looked right)
<wgrant> persia: We should now have popcon on UEHS, although some packages seem to lack data...
<nxvl> NCommander: would you like to give me a hand with this -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19444715/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.ssmtp_2.62-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<NCommander> Sure, I'd be glad to
 * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
<NCommander> nxvl, the compiler isn't doing something kosher
<cody-somerville> "ssmtp.c:489: error: 'else' without a previous 'if'"
<NCommander> nxvl, this is universe, right?
<NCommander> cody-somerville, or the source
<NCommander> probably a combination of the two
<nxvl> right
<nxvl> the funny thing is that it seems that the problem is only 386
<NCommander> nxvl, did it go boom on all architectures, or just i386
<NCommander> oh
<nxvl> let me confirm
<nxvl> no, it hasn't build yet on any other arch
<NCommander> testing on amd64
<NCommander> And it went perl shaped
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> pear
<Yasumoto> NCommander: nice
<nxvl> that replies the why i've just get the i386 message
<nxvl> NCommander: i think i get the error
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> Its kinda obvious why it exploded
 * NCommander bets there is a bad patch causing this
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> almost
<NCommander> Yup
<NCommander> ahaha
<NCommander> Take a look at the series file
<nxvl> found it?
<NCommander> There's your bug
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> you've got it
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> want me to upload?
<nxvl> NCommander: no, i already build it
<nxvl> but thank you
<NCommander> aw
<NCommander> -ENOUPLOAD
 * NCommander is shot
<NCommander> nxvl, you don't know anyone who runs KDE3, do you?
<nxvl> nop
<nxvl> i don't
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> When doing UEHS, do we want to update even if Debian is carrying the package? (debian hasn't uploaded anything due to lenny I bet)
<NCommander> actually, its a QA upload
<NCommander> so
<wgrant> We deliberately list QA packages as well.
 * NCommander looks for someone to do a qa uploads in debian
<coppro> time to install wincrawl on my VM!
<NCommander> lol
 * coppro has no KVM sadly: (
<coppro> what perms does /dev/kqemu need again?
<coppro> ah, hmm
<coppro> is there any way to give me group access without having to log out?
<ethana2> Alright, so say there's an app out there with GPL source code, and I want to turn it into a 32 bit Ubuntu .deb
<ethana2> ...is there documentation out there that goes through that process in a fairly simple and straightforward manner?
<ethana2> ok, this looks like it   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<ethana2> Ok, I've made a working directory, I've got the guide up here, fetching latest stable stellarium source code..
<ajmitch> if it's the stellarium that's already in universe, you may want to look at the section about updating packages
<ethana2> Well I'd like to skip the politics
<ethana2> ..build it myself and put it on getdeb.net
<ethana2> ..and maybe use that knowledge to contribute to ubuntu in the future
<ethana2> ...is there any reason I as an end user should bother with pbuilder?
<ajmitch> because it builds packages in a clean environment, so you don't miss dependencies, etc
<wgrant> GetDeb is not the solution.
<wgrant> If you just want it on GetDeb, you probably won't get any help here.
<ethana2> Hmmmmmm
<ethana2> Very well
<ethana2> I want to get it into 8.10 backports
<wgrant> Then get it into 9.04, not GetDeb.
<ethana2> ah, so it has to get into 9.04 before it can get into 8.10 backports?
<wgrant> Yes.
<ethana2> interesting
<ethana2> ....do I need to worry about debian?
<ethana2> or is 9.04 as far up as I need go?
<wgrant> You would ideally approach Debian about it first.
<wgrant> The Debian maintainer may well have plans to update it already.
<wgrant> And duplication of work is bad.
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> ...how would I go about doing that?
<ajmitch> there's a bug filed about it on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504329
<ubottu> Debian bug 504329 in stellarium "new version of stellarium 0.10.0 released" [Unknown,Open]
<ethana2> ah, well that's encouraging
<ajmitch> so he should at least know about the new release now, though that bug is less than a week old
<ethana2> ...are they usually pretty good about handling those upgrades quickly?
<ajmitch> depends on the developer :)
<ethana2> Does debian have an automated system with all their upstream software for .tar.gz and release note transfers?
<ajmitch> there's a semi-automated system for updating a package, called uupdate. I suspect the packaging guide will mention that
<ajmitch> the developer has to run it themselves, it's just a tool to help them when they come to do the work
<ethana2> How would I go about telling whether OpenOffice 3 is in Jaunty?
<ajmitch> packages.ubuntu.com may be up to date
<ajmitch> I doubt it's been uploaded yet
<ethana2> Hmm..  so if I wanted to just take a .tar.gz and turn it into a .deb for my own use and perhaps a few close friends..
<ethana2> is that a pretty straightforward process?  I think last time I tried I ran into a problem with checkinstall
<ajmitch> because checkinstall is very much the wrong way to go about it
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> What's the Right Way?
<ajmitch> packaging guide that you linked above
<ajmitch> yes, it's more involved
<ethana2> It seems to involve creating patch files...
<ajmitch> only if you need to patch it
<ethana2> oh, ok
 * ethana2 is install dh_make
<ethana2> If it's one app, does that mean it's 'single binary'?
<TheMuso> ethana2: Depends on the package.
<TheMuso> ethana2: If there is a library in the app, it should be in its own package.
<ethana2> It seems the tarball isn't named right or something
<ethana2> Could not find stellarium_0.10.0.orig.tar.gz
<TheMuso> ethana2: The tarball is not correctly named.
<TheMuso> Thats why it can't find it.
<ethana2> ..so I'll just change it to what it said it wanted
<TheMuso> ethana2: Unless its .tar.bz2, in which case you will have to bzip2 -d, and gzip the resulting tar file, then rename it.
<ethana2> that's odd, I don't use trash, like, ever...  but now I need to restore a file from it
<ethana2> ..aaand I'm not seeing an option in the context menu when i right click on the file I need to restore
 * NCommander is watching the world dumbest on TV
<ethana2> ah there we go, cut and paste
<ethana2> so it doesn't create it because it's already there, but it doesn't like me when it's not
<ethana2> Skipping creating ../stellarium_0.10.0.orig.tar.gz because it already exists.  Currently there is no top level Makefile. This may require additional tuning.  You already have a debian/ subdirectory in the source tree.
<ethana2> dh_make will not try to overwrite anything.
<wgrant> Why are you repackaging it from scratch?
<ethana2> oh.   Only run dh_make once. If you run it again after you do it the first time, it will not work properly.
<ethana2> wgrant: should I be doing it a different way?
<wgrant> ethana2: Yes... there is existing packaging, so use that.
<ethana2> I really don't know what I'm doing, just trying to follow this guide I found
<ethana2> the latest version?
<ethana2> ohh
<ethana2> I think I /may/ get what you're saying
<ethana2> existing /debian information for the .deb
<ethana2> Am I understanding you correctly?
<wgrant> The debian/ in the old source package, yes.
<ethana2> so apt-get source stellarium
<ethana2> ..and yank the /debian and slap it into the new version?
<wgrant> man uupdate
<ethana2> ..modify a text file or two, make sure the directory is named right
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> No manual entry for uupdate
<wgrant> Do you have it installed?
<ethana2> The man pages for that?  Evidently not..
<ethana2> E: Couldn't find package uupdate
<wgrant> command-not-found should tell you where it is. I guess uscan.
<TheMuso> its in devscripts
<ethana2> $ install devscripts
<ethana2> it's working..
<ethana2> ok, got 'em, attempting to get man page
<ethana2> Ok, so instead of packaging from scratch, I'm taking the source for ubuntu's version and using uupdate to take the current source..
<ethana2> and create a .deb using information from the ubuntu source?
<ethana2> ..ok, I started over by removing the directory from the .tar.gz, and renamed the .tar.gz as it seemed it wanted me to
<ethana2> when I untared it, it made a directory with the old name it didn't like, do I just rename that too?
<ethana2> ok, it appears not
<ethana2> Packaging from scratch is the only thing I see in this documentation
<ethana2> Oh, I think I see what's going on, but I'm not sure...  I'll just see how this goes
<ScottK> ethana2: If you're just starting, it can be good to work on bugs and updates before starting from scratch packaging.
<ScottK> Making a new package is one of the harder jobs there is.
<ethana2> But I'm not making a new one, I'm taking an old one and switching the old source code out, right?
<ScottK> I see.  I hadn't read all the scrollback.
<ethana2> ohhhhhh, the patch /is/ the .deb information
<ethana2> Hmm, can one list recursively only to one directory nesting?
<ethana2> Like, I want to see a directory and all the directories in it, but I don't want to see what's in /those/
<henrik-kabelkaos> how do i go about getting stuff into intrepid backports? it's for a wifi driver module.
<ethana2> it has to get into jaunty first
<ethana2> ..and it's advised that it gets into debian before that
<ethana2> ..if it's a wifi driver, that's kernel stuff with serious potential for breakage
<ethana2> http://pastebin.com/d5c73a2ef   ...I'm not quite sure what I do now..
<henrik-kabelkaos> can it be in a standalone package for jaunty or does it need to go into one of the *modules* packages?
<wgrant> henrik-kabelkaos: Sounds like you want linux-backports-modules, and to ask #ubuntu-kernel.
<NCommander> StevenK, ping
<henrik-kabelkaos> wgrant: thanks
<ethana2> so dh-make automatically applies the .diff.gz from the ubuntu source?
<Yasumoto> How do I unpack a .deb file? (To make sure I've packaged everything correctly)
<emgent> moin
<ethana2> Yasumoto: 'extract here'?
<ethana2> Yasumoto: do you mean from the CLI or just in general?
<fabrice_sp> Yasumoto: you can also run lintian, that will check some 'big' errors
<fabrice_sp> (but not only that)
<ethana2> http://pastebin.com/d3858edb4
<ethana2> Am I doing it right?
<Yasumoto> ethana2: from CLI
<ethana2> actually, that may not be enough info.
<Yasumoto> ethana2: yeah, to extract it into my current directory
<ethana2> Yasumoto: oh.
<Yasumoto> fabrice_sp: ah, cool, I'll do that too
<ScottK> Yasumoto: A .deb is an AR compressed archive.  Just use your favorite archiving tool (I like ark) to rip it open and have a look.
<Yasumoto> ScottK: oh, cool. thanks, will do
<ethana2> http://pastebin.com/d320f6f4e   there, that should be enough to determine..
<ethana2> What should I do now?
<ethana2> the guide doesn't say where to run dh_make from
<ethana2> It seems they're only dealing with one version of 'hello
<fabrice_sp> you have to run dh_make from inside the stellarium-0.9.1 directory
<fabrice_sp> if you want to package from scratch
<fabrice_sp> because if a debian directory already exists, dh_amke will gives you an error
<fabrice_sp> s/dh_amke/dh_make
<ethana2> So I run dh_make from the old source directory?
<ethana2> not the new source directory?
 * ethana2 scratches head
<fabrice_sp> in the pastebin, I don't see a new directory?!
<superm1> Yasumoto, additionally if you have dpkg-dev installed, file-roller (the default archive manager in ubuntu) learns how to open it nicely
<ethana2> it's the 0.10 one
<ethana2> stellarium-0.10.0
<ethana2> Do I have these directories arranged incorrectly?
<fabrice_sp> my fault: you're right
<ethana2> oh, ok
<fabrice_sp> in general, the new and old version are at the same level :-)
<ethana2> so I run dh_make from inside the stellarium-0.10.0 directory, right?
<ethana2> oh, ok
 * ethana2 adjusts
<ethana2> ethan@home:~/source/stellarium$ list
<ethana2> stellarium-0.10.0  stellarium_0.10.0.orig.tar.gz  stellarium-0.9.1  stellarium_0.9.1-2.diff.gz  stellarium_0.9.1-2.dsc  stellarium_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz
<ethana2> Is that better?
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<ethana2> ok sweet
<fabrice_sp> so, do you have a debian directory inside 0.10.0 directory?
<nellery> should new packages in debian be submitted as syncs?
<ethana2> I don't think so
<emgent> \sh: danke for nUbuntu :)
<ethana2> dh_make is supposed to make the /debian directory, right?
<ethana2> "Now we need to create the customary debian directory where all the packaging information is stored, allowing us to separate the packaging files from the application source files. We will let dh_make do the work for us: "
<nhandler> nellery: Since we are still pre-Debian Import Freeze, new packages in Debian should automatically be synced into Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> ethana2: yes, but as there is an existing package, you can copy the one from old version
<nellery> nhandler: thanks
<ethana2> fabrice_sp: do I need to change anything in it at all?
<fabrice_sp> ethana2: and review the content (for example, existing patches)
<ethana2> existing patches?
<fabrice_sp> add the new version in the changelog, at least :-)
<ethana2> So first I copy the /debian directory over..  /me copies
<fabrice_sp> ethana2: in this case, do you see the patches directory inside debian one?
<ethana2> yeah
<fabrice_sp> this are the patches
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<ethana2> Ok, so what do I do with them?
<ethana2> remove them?
<fabrice_sp> by the way, @all: do you think we should continue ethana2 and myself in a private channel?
<ethana2> if you would be so kind, i think that'd be good
<fabrice_sp> ethana2: nop: you should have a look at each one, to see if they still apply
<ethana2> ...sounds like that involves knowing what I'm doing
<ethana2> but I think all fixes have been applied by upstream
<ethana2> ..so I'm inclined to think that they don't
<fabrice_sp> (following in a private channel)
<superm1> congrats NCommander
<NCommander> thank you
<superm1> what's your first crack going to be?
<jdong> superm1: he's already on backporters. brace for impact
<TheMuso> superm1: Don't you mean, what was it?
<superm1> TheMuso, ah well i've not watched jaunty-changes, perhaps there already is some crack from him :)
<superm1> jdong, ah, between the two of you intrepid will stay interesting enough then
<emgent> heya superm1 TheMuso NCommander
<NCommander> jdong, oh, I forgot about those momentary
 * NCommander rolls up his selves
 * NCommander gains the EVIL glint in his eye
<jdong> NCommander: for source backports let's keep a cross-ACK policy
<jdong> i.e. a backporter other than he who creates debdiff should ACK :)
<NCommander> Agreed
<jdong> ScottK: ^^
 * NCommander blows the dust off his chroots
<NCommander> jdong, just to clarify, I shouldn't upload to backports without the second ack? (since it will get stuck in unapproved)
<ScottK> jdong: Ahhh, I've just been doing it, should I stop?
<jdong> ScottK: you're okay :)
<jdong> ScottK: I think it's not a bad idea from a QA standpoint to ahve a second eye on it
<ScottK> Generally if it's not a package I know well it'll be someone else's debdiff I'm reviewing before upload.
<jdong> yeah in the case of a backporter reviewing someone else's debdiff I think one suffices
<jdong> but I think for self-made debdiffs there might be cases of "creator's blindness" where a fresh pair of skeptical eyes would be helpful
<superm1> now what y'all really need is the ability to ack them out of unapproved rather than having to bug archive-admins to do it
<jdong> superm1: eep I'd rather not :D
<superm1> too much responsibility for your actions? :P
<jdong> superm1: there's a cozy warm feeling of having an archive deity touch it last :)
<NCommander> jdong, so I ACK, then mark In Progress, and subscribe the archive team?
<ScottK> jdong: If it's at all difficult, I can see that, but (fore example) I've backported clamav to Dapper a bunch of times and I've got a standard packaging patch I use.
<jdong> NCommander: yep for normal backports
<ScottK> I don't think it's critical that I get that kind of thing reviewed.
<jdong> ScottK: yeah, I think on second thoughts I'll write it down as an "In general, it is recommended to..." popint
<jdong> not a requirement
<superm1> Well that's weird, i've got a package that will build fine in sbuild but pbuilder complains this: "  pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libconfuse-dev which is a virtual package.
<superm1> "
<ScottK> I'm fine with that.
<ScottK> superm1: Either you didn't enable universe or switch to the classic pbuilder-satisfydepends
<jdong> superm1: yeah pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy is fast but not an accurate simulation of sbuild's satisfydepends
<superm1> oh that's it - i didn't enable universe, you're right.  this was a fresh pbuilder and I completely forgot you need to go through the extra args to do so
<jdong> universe not being enabled is a more common reason though :)
<superm1> thanks ScottK
<jdong> I think I've seen a single case in my time where sbuild and pbuilder-satisfydeps behaved significantly differently
<ScottK> Cool.  The new lintian 2.0 has a 'certainty' field in it's results so it'll tell you how certain it is of the issue.
<superm1> i much prefer to use sbuild, but i dont always have access to my machine that has lvm setup
<jdong> sweet
 * NCommander gets by w/ pbuilder
<NCommander> ScottK & jdong: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240136 - please review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240136 in hardy-backports "Please backport libmicrohttpd4 (0.3.1)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<NCommander> ScottK, & jdong https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/241560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241560 in hardy-backports "Please backport bugzilla 3.0 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<jdong> NCommander: do you have any hunches why compat was set at 7?
<NCommander> jdong, not a clue, nothing in rules used seven
<jdong> NCommander: okay
<jdong> NCommander: commented on both
<NCommander> thank you
<jdong> sure thing :)
 * NCommander is doing all the easy backports
<NCommander> the mail already starting to pile up
<lifeless> win 40
<lifeless> bah
<NCommander> jdong, here too
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/267391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267391 in hardy-backports "Please Backport aMSN" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<jdong> NCommander: comment added
<NCommander> Thank you
<NCommander> jdong, also, your two cents here (if its worth backporting samba)
<jdong> NCommander: no
<jdong> NCommander: too much responsibility
<jdong> unmaintainable
<NCommander> fair enough
 * NCommander kills that backport
<ScottK> NCommander: You might consider samba4 backport to Hardy along with openchange.  They're both alpha's so it's not like peole should actually expect them to work.
<jdong> oh do they install side-by-side?
<ScottK> AFAIK, yes.
<NCommander> jdong, the samba backport was for three
<NCommander> Four is fessible
<ScottK> You'd want to check.
<jdong> NCommander: 4 is mmm-okay-ish iff it installs side by side
<jdong> NCommander: though knowing the firefox gutsy fun, be ready to revisit in a year :)
<ScottK> NCommander: Does fessible mean you'd admit to doing it if questioned?
<NCommander> I'll do the actual backport, it probably will require a source backport to fly
<NCommander> Ah the sound of backports being done
 * NCommander will be happy when the queue is under 50 again
<StevenK> Argh
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> Oh yeah
<StevenK> What are you guys doing?
 * ScottK filed the first 4 intrepid backports.
<NCommander> Now the archive team is also going to get spammed bombed
<NCommander> Sweet
<NCommander> StevenK, they made me a backporter
<NCommander> Run.
<jdong> NCommander: making friends on day 1 of the job :)
<NCommander> Run fast.
<jdong> lol
<ScottK> NCommander: "They" didn't make you a backporter.  jdong did.  Let's get this clear.
<NCommander> StevenK, it could be worse. I could be on SRU
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> You don't randoming just say 'do it' on the SRU team at the consistent volume that the crackports team does
<jdong> ScottK: uh oh something about that is going to come back to haunt me :)
<ScottK> Just want to make sure we're clear where the credit/blame goes, whichever it turns out to be.
<NCommander> jdong, I need to respin the amsn patch
<NCommander> jdong, same changes, it just happens intrepid has an upgrade since I made that one
<jdong> NCommander: okay
<StevenK> Hm
<StevenK> Apparently, NCommander is an MOTU
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.  He doesn't waste time.  Just happened today.
 * NCommander nods
<Hobbsee> !crackports | jdong
<ubottu> jdong: <StevenK> You don't randoming just say 'do it' on the SRU team at the consistent volume that the crackports team does.  Also, it's all jdong's fault
<NCommander> O_O;
<jdong> Hobbsee: lol :)
<Hobbsee> !jdong
<ubottu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<Hobbsee> Q.E.D.
<jdong> Hobbsee: you didn't even need a tracker bug in launchpad to add that factoid?!?!
<jdong> *ducks*
<Hobbsee> no :P
<NCommander> brb
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For a second there I thought you kicked yourself for being abusive.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, i hit ctrl+q, instead of shift+q.
<Hobbsee> which closed the channel.
<Hobbsee> which means the list is now out of order :(
<ScottK> Sure, but my way was funnier.
 * Hobbsee glares at the shift key for trying to hide
<Hobbsee> :P
<ScottK> Don't glare too hard or it will melt and smell bad.
<NCommander> jdong, http://paste.ubuntu.com/68717/ - amsn debdiff
<didrocks> morning o/
<NCommander> jdong, if there is nothing wrong, I'm ready to upload it (I confirmed installation, and that I can sign on to MSN)
<jdong> NCommander: looks good to me
<NCommander> and away it goes
<wgrant> NCommander: You're not a core-dev, so can't upload it...
<jdong> wgrant: and that's no longer true as I found.
<wgrant> jdong: Oh, how odd.
<wgrant> Wouldn't Launchpad changelogs be nice
<jdong> wgrant: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/firefox-3.0/3.0.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1~gutsy1
<wgrant> jdong: That doesn't tell me who signed it.
<NCommander> wgrant, I would probably guess backports is now following proposed w.r..t to permissions
<soren> Laney: They already have a bug about it with a patch.. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=358637
<ubottu> Debian bug 358637 in iptables-dev "libip* should be compiled with -fPIC; attempt to link the current" [Normal,Closed]
<superm1> jdong, isn't that because in gutsy the firefox-3 source package didn't exist?
<NCommander> wgrant, well, I'll know in a moment if this rejects
<lifeless> Hobbsee: getting soft in your old age?
<wgrant> superm1: Previously only core-devs could upload any sourceful backports.
<superm1> if say you try to upload it to hardy, I think it should fail
 * Hobbsee whacks lifeless' ankles with her cane.
 * NCommander hears Hobbsee's creak
<ScottK> superm1: It did previously exist though.
<StevenK> NCommander: s/'s//
<superm1> oh so it did, but it was in universe in gutsy looking at  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0
<jdong> superm1: yeah, idn if I can upload across the universe barrier
<NCommander> ScottK, can I ACK a clamav backport? (that package is your domain)
<soren> wgrant: There's clearly a bit of terminology, I'm unfamiliar with... What does "sourceful" mean in this contexxt?
<wgrant> Erm, isn't ClamAV backported in -security anyway?
<NCommander> wgrant, I lost track at this point
<jdong> NCommander: I'd rather have ScottK deal with all things clamav :)
<ScottK> NCommander: No.  We need to deal with rdepends crap on that.
<wgrant> soren: Backports are normally performed by archive admins, without any real upload. The correct term was probably "upload with source changes", but mrh. I must have seen sourceful used to mean that somewhere.. hm.
<ScottK> wgrant: We got 0.92.1 into -security via backports.  About to start over with 0.94.1.
<wgrant> ScottK: How many rdepends need a rebuild each time?
<NCommander> wgrant, I just my accepted into UNAPPROVED email
<wgrant> NCommander: You just a verb.
<ScottK> wgrant: It's worse.  They generally need patching.  It's only a handful, but you've got to deal with it.
<NCommander> ^got
<wgrant> ScottK: Oh, sounds lovely!
<soren> wgrant: That's how I've seen it used as well. I just didn't understand how launchpad would tell the difference between an upload with source changes and one without. I thought the ones without at least had a new changelog entry.
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/286337 I assume we're not crazy enough to actually try this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286337 in hardy-backports "Please backport OpenSSH 5.1 to Hardy" [Wishlist,New]
<wgrant> soren: The ones without changes aren't uploaded through any normal means. They get injected straight into Soyuz.
<jdong> NCommander: didn't I say no to one of those already?
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm guessing not.
<jdong> NCommander: but the answer is absolutely not.
<NCommander> jdong, nope
<wgrant> NCommander: Ewww.
<wgrant> KILL
 * NCommander kills it
<didrocks> ScottK: I am maybe not very awake at this early hour, but I do not see any update for pbuilder, devscript nor debootstrap from intrepid-backports. (I am on the archive.ubuntu.com mirror). Am I dreaming?
<Hobbsee> didrocks: they're probably not built yet?
<soren> wgrant: I see. I've never actually used backports :/ They *do* have a new changelog entry, don't they?
<wgrant> soren: They do.
<didrocks> Hobbsee: I guess the contrary from ScottK mail
<wgrant> But "with source changes" in this case means more than the changelog.
<soren> wgrant: I understand.
<ScottK> didrocks: They've been backported, but are still waiting to build.  They're behind the queue for the big autosync run going on right now.
<soren> wgrant: I just wasn't sure how launchpad would tell the difference. I get it now.
<ScottK> Hobbsee is correct.
<didrocks> ScottK: ok, that's was what I assumed. Thanks ;)
<ScottK> I missed my goal.  I was trying to make a new package in an hour.
<ScottK> It took 1 hour, 11 minutes.
<ScottK> I hadn't banked on having to write two man pages.
<didrocks> ScottK: yes, but we disturbed you, so, you have an excuse :)
 * ScottK is always disturbed.
<didrocks> I can imagine, same here with the French loco-team tasksâ¦
<ScottK> jdong: I think 'backports' is a pocket, not a repository (re; your wiki change)
 * wgrant agrees with ScottK.
<jdong> ScottK: gah silly technicalities.
<jdong> please correct *runs off to bed*
 * NCommander cuts the backport queues down the size
<NCommander> Litterially
<Yasumoto> so when merging, the only things I add in to the changelog
<Yasumoto> should be what I'm keeping in from ubuntu, right?
<Yasumoto> if I'm replacing ubuntu changes with debian changes, I don't mention it?
<StevenK> Yasumoto: Yes. You mention it in a "Ubuntu changes dropped:" section
<ScottK> jdong: More changes than I have patience for.  I did drop Feisty and Add Intrepid.
<Yasumoto> StevenK: thanks
<NCommander> ScottK, how do you want to handle the bazaar backport?
<ScottK> NCommander: The way I want to handle it is let jdong do it.
<ScottK> He said he would.
<ScottK> NCommander: So I'd ask him.
<NCommander> ScottK, you mind checking and testing the fluxbox backport for me? I can't run it on this machine ATM
<jdong> ScottK: NCommander: I do have that in mind, I was waiting to check on the bzr-svn situation and possibly stick a new version of that into jaunty and handle 1.8 and its stack at the same time
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm heading to bed, so not today.
<NCommander> ScottK, aw :-/
<ethana2> Ok, I've got stellarium 0.10.0 to compile on Ubuntu 8.10 with a HUGE amount of help from fabrice_sp
<ethana2> ...but I don't have a gpg key and it can't sign the .deb
<ethana2> so it won't make it
<ethana2> How do I solve this problem?
<ethana2> gpg: skipped "Ethan Anderson <ethan@home>": secret key not available
<ethana2> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<ethana2> I don't know how to get a key, I'm thinking that may be a complicated process?
<stefanlsd> ethana2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<stefanlsd> its not really that complex
<ethana2> thanks
<csilk> Can't you get a gpg key?
<csilk> nope
<csilk> quite simple
<csilk> ahh, just about to find you that link
<ethana2> Ok, do I need someone else to 'trust' me or something?
<stefanlsd> ethana2: naa. as long as u trust yourself :)
 * ethana2 assumes not
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> well like
<ethana2> I'd like to redistribute this .deb to close friends
<ethana2> is that going to cause problems on the software level?
 * ethana2 assumes not
 * ethana2 compiles again
<dholbach> good morning
<NCommander> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi NCommander
<stefanlsd> hihi!
<NCommander> dholbach, how goes it?
<dholbach> hi stefanlsd
<dholbach> NCommander: good good - I'm slowly waking up
<NCommander> dholbach, I can't sleep :-/
<stefanlsd> thats what upload privs does!
<NCommander> Well, its something else
 * NCommander is right now putting a second dent in the backports build log
<NCommander> WIth the added bonus now that the archive team is getting spam bombed from the ACK emails <g>
<StevenK> Argh
<StevenK> NCommander: I will get youi
<StevenK> s/i$//
<NCommander> StevenK, and I can't stop fixing your FTBFSes ;-)
<NCommander> s/can't/can/g
<dholbach> congratulations NCommander!
<NCommander> dholbach, yup :-)
 * NCommander is already using his powers for "good"
<NCommander> Although StevenK may disagree
<jdong> they need to make bigger unicode quotes for that ;-)
 * NCommander wonders how load the other archive admins will bitch
<ethana2> my poor machine has had to compile this so many times..
<ethana2> I wish it would throw those gpg errors /before/ running make
<NCommander> ethana2, use debsign or debuild -nc
<ethana2> debuild -nc?
<ethana2> does that mean it doesn't sign it?
<NCommander> no
<soren> ethana2: Just use debsign?
<NCommander> just don't clean/rebuild
<ethana2> I'm running debuild -b
<jdong> ethana2: -nc means don't clean
<ethana2> debuild uses debsign
<ethana2> signing is worthless to me
<ethana2> completely
<jdong> ethana2: use only if you're confident that you haven't touched the source too much
<ethana2> i haven't touched it at all
<jdong> ethana2: probably -uc -us is what you want for don't sign :)
<ethana2> i'm not competent enough to touch source
 * ethana2 reads man page
<ethana2> debuild -i -us -uc -b  ?
<ethana2> This man page doesn't seem to explain all those....  which is odd
<ethana2> What are the -uc and -us parameters?
<ethana2> Well, I seem to have two .deb files
<soren> -uc means "don't sign the changes file".
<ethana2> app_version_i386.deb and app-data_version_all.deb
<soren> -us means "don't sign the .dsc file"
<ethana2> Are binary files signed?
<soren> no.
<ethana2> ohhhhh
<ethana2> ok
<soren> The corresponding .changes file is, though.
<ethana2> oh, I see, stellarium-data isn't code
<ethana2> ..thus it's for all architectures
<soren> ...but if you're not uploading it to build service, it's not something you need to worry about at all.
<ethana2> right
<ethana2> it runs, but slowly
<ethana2> it has dependencies that it doesn't use at all
<ethana2> ..and I think gcc gave me a quick compile instead of a quick binary
<iulian> Morning.
<Yasumoto> So I'll bug RAOF when he gets on, but if anyone wants to initially glance over my merge for miro, I'd be stoked :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miro/+bug/294459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294459 in miro "I'm merging miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slytherin> Yasumoto: Isn't that a weird description of bug? The "I am merging" part
<Yasumoto> meh, yeah
<Yasumoto> That's what RAOF suggested
<Yasumoto> it's more typical to be third-person though?
<Yasumoto> I think it was mainly because it already had someone 'assigned' to it
<NCommander> geser, ok, ready to upload ilohamail. I think all the "easy" merges/syncs you have are done
<Yasumoto> slytherin: is this better? "Please merge miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable"
<LucidFox> Do I have to use my legal name for Ubuntu contribution?
<NCommander> LucidFox, you mean as a donation?
<LucidFox> No, package work
<LucidFox> and development
 * NCommander knows the offical Debian policy is that you must at least be confirmed by your name, but your db entry doesn't require it
<NCommander> LucidFox, I take it you don't like your legal name?
<LucidFox> I've recently come to identify myself as non-gendered, and I'd like to use a female identity for Launchpad to counterbalance my real-life male identity. However, it's probably a silly request.
<slytherin> Yasumoto: The description you specified is good. And then simply assign the bug to yourself if you are still working on it.
<stefanlsd> LucidFox: heh. i think if thats the name u want to contribute under, and you stick to it, its ok
<Yasumoto> slytherin: nope, attached both debdiffs, so just waiting for some more eyes to check it. thanks a bunch :)
<elmargol> Any ideas? http://elmargol.soup.io/post/6713919/Bild
<james_w> NCommander: hey, have you seen http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=466373 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 466373 in dact "dact: switch to liblzo2" [Normal,Open]
<james_w> NCommander: it's RC, so it would be great to fix
<NCommander> Nope, totally missed that
<NCommander> That was actually on my "do tommorow" list
<NCommander> james_w, your not a DD, are you?
<james_w> nope
<james_w> there's a patch on there, but it sounds like you founded more needs to be done
<Laney> soren: AFAICS that bug is about a different library, libiptc - and it was closed anyway
<directhex> LucidFox, i think as long as you have a GPG key that people trust is "you", minor issues of identity are pretty irrelevant
<LucidFox> All right - I was going to add the female name to the key anyway, even if I wasn't going to use it for Ubuntu
<soren> Laney: Well, feel free to forward the patch if you want. I'm not going to stop you :)
<soren> Laney: I'll look at it later today, probably. Thanks for looking into it!
<Laney> \o/
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net, http://merges.ubuntu.com | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, November 14th 12:00 UTC
<Laney> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi Laney
 * sebner hugs sistpoty|work =)
 * sistpoty|work hugs sebner
<slytherin> Can anyone having access to updated Debian unstable please check rdepends or reverse-build-depends for libjaxp1.2-java?
<kgoetz> hi all. I'm wondering if theres a tool to check that a package is buildable on an architecture before trying to compile it? I'm thinking along the lines of 'check if package builds on amd64. no, its i386 only. skip it'
<azeem> kgoetz: apt-cache showsrc <package> | grep Arch
<kgoetz> azeem: thanks.
<persia> Anyone from MOTU SRU about?  I want to fix bug #294914 in intrepid, but I'mo currently blocked on fixing it in jaunty by debootstrap, and would rather not wait.  Would t be acceptable to push intrepid in advance of jaunty in this case?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294914 in ubuntustudio-meta "Intrepid has no GUI method to configure network interfaces" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294914
<karooga> hi, anyone got some time to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pyephem   It's a package providing scientific-grade astronomical computations for the Python.
<persia> karooga, You've had someone test the binary now?
<persia> karooga, Since you're not doing anything special, if your watch file works, you don't need get-orig-source.  Test with uscan --force-download
<karooga> Not yet.  I'm still running hardy and this is packaged for jaunty.
<persia> You don't need the licenses in python-pyephem.docs, or PKG-INFO.  INSTALL isn't useful because you've changed that to be `apt-get install python-pyephem`.
<persia> I suspect your copyright file is wrong, as there's usually a reason to ship both GPL and LGPL in a tarball.  Check the source files carefully.  Also, I'd recommend reorganising it to match http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html or http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat (your choice)
<directhex> hm. do packages in sid but not jaunty need explicit sync requests? aren't they usually auto-synced at some stage?
<persia> The new packages sync usually happens after the buildds have calmed down a bit.  No need to be explicit except for stuff in contrib or non-free.
<karooga> ï»¿persia: sorry, my connection went down.
<karooga> ï»¿persia: did i miss anything else? you were talking about copyright problems.
<persia> Some packages will fail to sync for various reasons, and need to be handled manually, but in these cases, the archive-admins don't have any special ability to make it happen, so it's more just an upload request.
<persia> karooga, I haven't said anything about your package since pointing at the recommended debian/copyright formats.
<karooga> persia: cool :-)
<persia> I'm not much of a python person, so I tend to avoid trying to review python packages, as I'm not confident I'll get it right.
<persia> Some stuff isn't python-specific, so for that, I'm happy to provide recommendations.
<directhex> persia, anyone comes to you with a mono app, slap 'em and tell them to talk to pkg-mono-apps@alioth
<karooga> persia:  thanks, i'm just trying to get it right
<persia> directhex, Nobody comes to me with anything.  People put stuff on REVU.  If you want more mono apps, I'd recommend looking over the selection there, and commenting on anything you find interesting.
<persia> As much as I believe packages will do better in Debian, I'm not going to block uploads to Ubuntu just because there is a willing team in Debian : I think it's better to get the package published *somewhere*, and use existing coordination methods to handle packages that aren't in both Debian and Ubuntu.
 * persia misses an active DCT
<directhex> i count one package on revu i know is CLI, and it's got a rather lower version number than i have here in pkg-cli-apps svn
<directhex> norsetto was giving feedback on it. i wonder if our debian guy made any similar mistakes
<directhex> hm, i think the Vcs lines are wrong
<persia> directhex, In that case, you probably want to leave a comment saying that there's a newer version on alioth, and suggest collaboration.
<slayton> are there any plans to backport synergy1.31-4ubuntu2 to hardy?
<ScottK> slayton: Look for a bug about it in the hardy-backports project on Launchpad.
<ScottK> If not, you can request it.
<ScottK> !backports | slayton
<ubottu> slayton: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<slayton> ScottK, sorry I should have checked ther first
<slayton> still trying to wake up
<ScottK> persia: We're all the DCT now.
<persia> ScottK, Well, I guess.  Doesn't seem to be reducing the Ubuntu-local package count much.
<ScottK> persia: In the areas I work in in Debian I see many more Ubuntu people more active than they were a year ago.  So if it's not reducing, maybe just staying even is progress.
<persia> ScottK, I see about the same thing : I think we're currently keeping up, but there's the legacy of the first couple years that needs help.
<ScottK> Fundamentally, absent someone who cares it won't get into Debian because no one will sign up to maintain it.
<ScottK> So we have to ask ourselves if we want packages no one will care for in Ubuntu?
<persia> Right.  That's why I miss DCT.  Could be a collaborative team maintaining these in Debian, and perhaps filing the RoM requests when necessary, rather than waiting for things to bitrot into cruft.
<ScottK> Well bitrot in both distros or one, I don't see a huge difference.
 * ScottK summons the cruft clearing spirit of NCommander to expunge the bit-rottenness from our archive ...
<sistpoty|work> what was that url to the list of ubuntu-only packages again?
<persia> Well, more that there'd be a group of people explicitly looking at them.
<persia> sistpoty|work, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/all.html has a list.
<sistpoty|work> thanks persia
<RainCT> NCommander: FTBFS master, FYI, koverartist doesn't build :P
<persia> sistpoty|work, unless you're explicitly looking for the list, UEHS is probably a better target right now.
<sistpoty|work> persia: actually, I'm just looking if there's anything I might want to take over maintenance :)
<persia> Then mdt is probably the best list :)
<DktrKranz> I'm going to have a look at ubuntu local packages and see which ones are untouched since gutsy, just to have a look at older packages which have a greater chance to be obsolete
 * persia doesn't think age correlates with obsolesence well
<DktrKranz> there are several packages uploaded and left outside alone
<DktrKranz> those need love
<james_w> I could perhaps come up with a list of likely targets
 * ScottK suggests http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/all.html#sameversionbutlocalinB for people who would write bug reports for Debian.
<ScottK> jdong: Closing bugs in changelogs against backports tasks works now.
<jdong> ScottK: cool good to know
<ScottK> jdong: Here's a particularly 'extensive' example: Bug #278075
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278075 in spamassassin "DSBL is gone and needs to be removed from SpamAssassin" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278075
<amikrop> Hello. Where can I find the Ubuntu Packaging Guide, but in one page?
<chrisccoulson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<RainCT> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<webtech_m33> Hello, i am looking for help on getting clamav updated on my Hardy 8.04LTS box, right now it's 92.1 but the newest one out is .94.1, i see it's in the intrepid rep, but i don't know how to get it into my hardy box.. any suggestions?
<jdong> webtech_m33: ScottK is usually the one who handles backports of clamav
<persia> webtech_m33, You can watch backports for it, or wait for more tasting.  ClamAV is fairly closely watched in Ubuntu, and mostly kept up-to-date, so you should have some sort of update (either the newer version or patches to provide current protection) before too long.
<ScottK> webtech_m33: What are you using clamav with?
<persia> jdong, You're an SRU person.  What do you think about pushing the intrepid fix for bug #295914 before it gets fixed in jaunty?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 295914 could not be found
<persia> Err. 294914
<webtech_m33> ScottK: spam filter
<jdong> bug 294914
<ScottK> webtech_m33: Which package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294914 in ubuntustudio-meta "Intrepid has no GUI method to configure network interfaces" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294914
<webtech_m33> ScottK: clamav (0.92.1~dfsg2-1.1ubuntu0.2)
<jdong> persia: looking. btw, stupid question, when does auto-sync from Debian start?
<persia> jdong, two days ago
<webtech_m33> Scott: this is what freshclam says: WARNING: Your ClamAV installation is OUTDATED!
<webtech_m33> WARNING: Local version: 0.92.1 Recommended version: 0.94.1
<ScottK> webtech_m33: We don't quite have 0.94.1 in Jaunty yet.  We have the RC.  That should get resolved over the weekend and then I'll start working on backporting.
<ScottK> webtech_m33: Our 0.92.1 is patched with the major security fixes from later releases, so it's not a significant risk to be patient.
<webtech_m33> ScottK: you want some help testing the backport verison?
<ScottK> webtech_m33: Yes.  Come around early next week.
<webtech_m33> Scottk: sounds like a plan to me
<jcastro> RainCT: 15 minutes until your session!
<amikrop> chrisccoulson: thanks :-)
<RainCT> jcastro: yep, thanks for the reminder :)
<jdong> ScottK: do we really need to keep the big urgent warning from freshclam?
<ScottK> jdong: It's upstream's warning.
<jdong> ScottK: I'm assuming there's cases where new signatures won't work with old(er) engines?
<ScottK> Yes.
<jdong> ScottK: and/or upstream will be really mad at us if we suppressed the warning too :)
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy.
 * jdong refreshes prevu for jaunty-awareness
<ScottK> jdong: Upstream on clamav just asked the Debian Maintainer to review their proposed API changes for the next release.  That's, AFAIK, never happened before.  I don't want to upset the applecart just now.
<csilk> I'm just setting up pbuilder for intrepid on another one of my machines and I get
<csilk> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/9924/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<csilk> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<csilk> ?
<slytherin> persia: about the bug, wasn't gnome-network-admin removal intentional?
<persia> slytherin, For Ubuntu Desktop, yes.  For Ubuntu Studio, no.  In fact, the seed history reports it was added, but the string got dropped along the way.  Ubuntu Studio doesn't have Network Manager.
<slytherin> oh, then it is problematic
<persia> Yeah, and I can't update the ubuntustudio-meta source for jaunty yet, although I'll probably take a look at debootstrap to be able to do so if someone else doesn't in the next couple days.
<slytherin> persia: I have jaunty pbuilder set up. If you want I can try that today. But AFAIK, -meta packages are supposed to be updated via seeds right?
<persia> slytherin, Oh, the seeds are updated.  Don't worry about it.
<slytherin> Ok.
<slytherin> Got to go now. See you all later.
<jdong> sigh torrent clients are like delusional ex'es.
<jdong> almost a week after I've stopped seeding iptables is still recording a few hits per day to my former torrent port
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> RainCT: ok, with me there were 3 people :P
<sebner> hi bddebian
<RainCT> sebner: yeah lol
<gregor> is it possible, that you put metacafe-dl,youtube-dl,nicovideo-dl and all others "video downloaders" into one package?
<RainCT> sebner: it was an intensive session, though ;P
<sebner> heh
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<gregor> http://dad.dunnewind.net/main.php
<gregor> Warning: filesize(): stat failed for /srv/web/dad.dunnewind.net//crash/crash_4.0-6.3-1ubuntu2.patch in /srv/web/dad.dunnewind.net/code/index.template on line 104 Warning: filesize(): stat failed for /srv/web/dad.dunnewind.net//pyenchant/pyenchant_1.4.2-2ubuntu1.patch in /srv/web/dad.dunnewind.net/code/index.template on line 104
<persia> gregor, Thanks for the report.  In the meantime, you might try MoM.
<persia> If the error persists, it's worth filing a bug on LP.
<gregor> what ist MoM?
<persia> Merge-o-Matic : merges.ubuntu.com
<persia> DaD fulfills the same rough function as MoM.  MoM has a richer dataset to collect the updates, and DaD has a better interface, and both have slightly different sets of bugs in the merging code, although most of the egregious ones have been ironed out in each case.
<persia> Which you use is mostly a matter of taste.  There's been some effort to create something with the DaD frontend and the MoM backend, and improved merging logic that includes the best bits from each, but it only exists at bzr branches right now, and remains unfinished.
<gregor> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html needs some html-cleanup btw. ;)
<persia> That's part of why the DaD front-end is considered better than the MoM frontend :)
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, November 14th 12:00 UTC | It's REVU day
<jdong> whee, new prevu :)
<jdong> now with 75% more crack
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Did you integrate checkinstall yet?
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: lol no :)
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: apart from the usual adding jaunty support, I did add a new prevu-nomangle command that skips bumping down the version number, i.e. it's now usable as a pdebuild-like incantation.
<ScottK-laptop> I see.  I have see references to using it outside the backports context, so I'd expect that's going to be used.
<jdong> yeah, I've seen enough requests for this that I felt it should be implemented. It's also good for things like local kernel backports, where the buildscripts don't cope well with weirdness like ~ and words in the version
<Laney> pochu: Someone took a look at fet before I got the change (without asking me, tsk tsk) - bug #294381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294381 in fet "Please sync fet 5.7.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294381
<Laney> s/change/chance/
<persia> Laney, Do you disagree with their recommendation?
<Laney> persia: No, it looks correct
<persia> Then they're just saving you work.  Plenty of other stuff to do :)
<Laney> but of course - I just thought that the procedure was to ping the last uploader
<persia> Not reliably.
<Laney> If I was actually bothered I'd make the effort to contact them
<Laney> but I tend to disagree with that procedure anyway
<persia> If you expect to spend significant time on it, and want to declare you're working on it, open a bug in LP and assign yourself.
<persia> Anyone who ignores that deserves complaint, as they clearly didn't bother to check the open bugs against the package when doing the merge.
<persia> Most packages don't need so much time, so it's more of a who-gets-to-it-first.
<persia> The last uploader generally has more ideas about a package than some random person, so they are a good person to ask questions.
<Laney> I read "starting to work on the merge, you should check with the previous maintainer and/or the previous uploader, if they intend to work on the merge themselves." as being stronger than it actually is, then
<persia> Also, if nobody else does it, the last uploader is expected to perform the merge, so when the archive first opens, we generally just do our own, unless we need something as a dependency or otherwise *really* want to do it.
<Laney> before starting, that is
<persia> At this point in the cycle, it's considered polite to do that, and not doing it is mildly rude.  Come December, it's more of a free-for-all.
<Laney> Right, that's how I worked for Intrepid
<persia> That said, if you're merging something that you've not previously uploaded, unless you're *really* sure, take extra care.
<persia> Right, although for Intrepid, it was s/December/June/
<Laney> of course
<Laney> Well, the good news for fet is that it can be a sync again since Debian took the patch I forwarded to them :)
<persia> Anyway, those who want to do uploads and don't have merges pending would do better to look at UEHS or harvest, rather than chasing others merges.
<Laney> One of my first contributions comes full circle
<Yasumoto> persia: what's UEHS?
<Laney> must dash anyway, I'll be back later
<persia> Yasumoto, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs
<persia> Check out the list of packages not in sync with upstream : they would all benefit from a look, and probably a pull of the new upstream.
<persia> Some have other outstanding bugs, which might have patches worth applying.
<Yasumoto> persia: oh, cool
<Yasumoto> thanks :)
<persia> Yasumoto, Thanks for looking.  Personally, I think those merges are at least as important as the Debian merges, but few people actually check that.
<Yasumoto> persia: it seems like we'd want most of these updated in debian first though, right?
<gouki> Hi everyone. I FINALLY built something that works, and I uploaded to REVU. However, after finding a typo, I tried uploading again, but can't because the package was already uploaded.
<persia> Yasumoto, Well, maybe.  Most of them aren't in Debian.  Those that are in Debian are orphaned.  Updates for the orphaned ones might be appreciated by the QA team (and adoptions would certainly be appreciated), but they aren't likely to be updated with the current freeze.
<gouki> How can I force the upload or delete my previous package?
<quadrispro> RainCT, hi!
<persia> gouki, remove the .upload file.
<gouki> OK persia.
<DktrKranz> gouki, or use dput -f
<gouki> DktrKranz, ok! Thank you.
<DktrKranz> you're welcome
<RainCT> quadrispro: hi
<quadrispro> RainCT, I've just uploaded to REVU a fixed version of installation-report-generator
<quadrispro> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<Yasumoto> persia: ah, I see
<RainCT> quadrispro: great, I'll have a look at it
<quadrispro> RainCT, thank you
<Yasumoto> persia: thanks
<Schwitzd> hi all!
<Schwitzd> ScottK: hallo :D
<Schwitzd> ScottK: can you please look this backport? https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/294180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294180 in usb-creator "Backport usb-creator" [Undecided,Invalid]
<RainCT> \o/ we are being invaded by italians    :)
<quadrispro> lol
<quadrispro> RainCT, he isn't italian
<gouki> Can a package be deleted from REVU?
<DktrKranz> RainCT, too late... we own you already
<quadrispro> isn't true Schwitzd ? :D
<persia> gouki, Yes, but usually they are just archived, unless there's an overriding reason to delete them.
<jdong> whatever happened to "don't judge a nick by its TLD"?
<jdong> or however that old saying went
<Schwitzd> quadrispro: :D
<RainCT> jdong: I judge them by the channel list in /whois :D
<DktrKranz> jdong, its TLD and its surname are indicative ;)
<DktrKranz> *his
<gouki> persia, I was asking because I uploaded a package that I learned yesterday can't be included anywhere because of its license.
<gouki> I already commented saying not to bother looking at that package.
<RainCT> gouki: URL?
<persia> Ah, so it really can't even be included on REVU :)  Which package?  I'll kill it.
 * RainCT leaves it for persia :)
 * persia leaves it to RainCT, who can probably kill it faster
 * persia types too slowly :)
<gouki> RainCT, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3836
<persia> RainCT, Where's my nuke button?
<RainCT> persia: it's in the list of archived packages, only
<joaopinto> regarding REVU,   	 festor90@gmail.com has vanished from internet for a couple of months
<gouki> And, BTW, I just uploaded my first package, so if any kind soul wants to take a look: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3863
<ScottK> Schwitzd: Looking
<Yasumoto> gouki: ouch, man :( licensing for the loss..
<persia> RainCT, Be nice to have on the package page, if the package was already archived.
<gouki> Yasumoto, yeah :S
<RainCT> persia: yep, I'll add it to the fast links at the top-right
<joaopinto> gouki, you don't need usr/sbin on debian/dirs :P
<gouki> joaopinto, thank you :) Will fix it right now.
<RainCT> gouki: nuked and deleted :)
<gouki> RainCT, thank you :)
<joaopinto> not sure that debian/copyright is acceptable, you just trimmed down the usual GPL description to a 2 lines reference
<pochu> Laney: thanks, acked
<ScottK> Schwitzd: Approved.  It still needs to be manually backported by an archive-admin.  Would you please edit the bug to include the exact version you tested.
<gouki> joaopinto, I wasn't sure of what part of the license I should paste.
<gouki> joaopinto, what's the normal procedure on that part?
<RainCT> gouki: the two first stanzas of the header (and the third one, if you want) + the "you can find this in.. on Debian systems"
<joaopinto> gouki, and there is something wrong with your debian/docs :P
<gouki> RainCT, OK. I'll change this right now.
<gouki> joaopinto, not a suprise :P What's wrong?
<persia> gouki, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html or http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat (your choice)
<Schwitzd> ScottK: tks, i to immidiatly
<joaopinto> personal comment, what an useless package :P
<gouki> lolol
<gouki> Indeed!
<gouki> Heheh
<joaopinto> gouki, I would replace that lengthy debhelper debian/rules with a 5 lines CDBS rules, but that's just me
<Schwitzd> ScottK: done :D
<persia> Um, there's already a package in the archive that does that.  Also does crashes for ProDOS, Amiga, etc.
<gouki> joaopinto, you got me lost there :S Any pointers?
<persia> Considering the wide number of use cases for such a thing, do we need two?
<ScottK> Schwitzd: OK.  Now it's a matter of waiting for an archive admin.
<RainCT> How many bsod programs are there?
 * RainCT has written one too.. https://launchpad.net/bsod XD
<Schwitzd> ScottK: tnk a lot ;)
<persia> Hundreds, but I only know of one in the archive (although I've not played with it in months, and have forgotten the name)
<persia> It was good because it supported *lots* of different operating systems, so you could pick your crash, or get a random one.
<persia> Given that this one can only do windows, it just seems less good.
<joaopinto> gouki, in my opinion a shorter debian/rules is easier to review, you can achieve that with CDBS, https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<gouki> Well, I only packaged it to have some feedback (and I did get some). So feel free to ignore it :)
<RainCT> yep. mine is customizable through text files and command line options :P
<gouki> Well, can I still upload it with changes made so you guys take a look at it?
<gouki> Just not the CDBS ones, as I still have to read on that.
<persia> gouki, The other alternative if you want a short debian/rules (which is often easier to maintain) is to use the features of debhelper 7.  Most of the guides are for debhelper 5.
<gouki> persia, OK, I'll look into it.
<DRebellion> What is the current Standards-Version?
<RainCT> DRebellion: 3.8.0
<DRebellion> RainCT, thanks ;)
<iulian> Well, the current one is 3.8.0.1, some people use it and some don't. As far as I know it's better to use 3.8.0 instead of 3.8.0.1 for now.
<RainCT> persia: there's now a "nuke" link on the details page of archived packages (and details.py shows proper error messages -ie, with page header and footer- for wrong links) :)
<persia> RainCT, Wow!  That was fast.  Thank you.
<gregor> youtube-dl, nicovideo-dl, metacafe-dl and all the others "video downloaders"... please package them to one package/programm, easyer install and only one command, to get videos from different sites.
<persia> gregor, The issue is that they all have different upstreams, with different release cycles, etc.
<persia> Perhaps creating a package that depends on all of them, and integrates well with one or more of the front-ends would be a useful way to meet your goal?
<sebner> persia: /me is curious. how could this be done? repack all sources into 1 tarball and then package it with black magic?
<persia> sebner, Um, no.  That's not how it's done.
<persia> That's a recipe for disaster.
<sebner> persia: meta package, I see
<persia> Create a new package.  Depend on the individual packages.  Add some glue code to make it do the right thing.
<ScottK> persia: Just because it's a recipe for disaster really has little bearing on if someone's done it that way or not.  ;-)
<persia> I don't think there's enough of a reason for a meta-package, because the command-lines are all different.  Better to include a wrapper script, and maybe some viewer integration so you pass it a URL, or a search string, or something, and it does it's magic (using the individual downloaders).
<sebner> persia: I see. thank you :)
<persia> ScottK, Whether someone has done it has no relation to how it is done.  While I admit to there being many correct ways to do things, that's not one of them.
<sebner> ScottK: like *matix? ^^
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.
<ScottK> sebner: No.  That's worse.  That's just idiocy.
<persia> Some people choose to use checkinstall, for example.
<persia> That's also not how it's done.
<sebner> heh
<superm1> so given flash is in the partner component now, i wonder if it's more worthwhile to nuke the flashplugin-installer package from multiverse for jaunty and push to have partner get enabled by that FF thing
<superm1> asac, what do you think about that?
<sebner> superm1: our flash installer package will fetch the official one from the partner archive
<sebner> he has holidays btw ^^
<superm1> sebner, it does?
<persia> superm1, That's unfortunate for derivatives (as opposed to flavours).
<sebner> superm1: it will
<superm1> sebner, i didn't think a deb's postinst could install another deb
<superm1> persia, why so?
<persia> a deb postinst can do anything root can do.  It shouldn't install another deb.
<sebner> superm1: I don't know how it will work but that's the plan
<persia> superm1, because it's not clear that e.g. Mint can use partner.
<sebner> wb Daviey
<sebner> wb DktrKranz
<sebner> arg
<DktrKranz> sebner, just pressed wrong button
<DktrKranz> but thanks ;)
<superm1> persia, are you sure there are licensing guidelines that go with using partner though?  I've never been aware of any EULA that has to be accepted to use the repository itself
<superm1> sebner, is there a spec about this?
<sebner> DktrKranz: I used to do the same at my beginning xchat time ^ ^
<sebner> superm1: I don't really know, I'm also not involved. I'm just telling you the same what asac told me
<persia> superm1, I may be wrong, but my understanding was that it was a resource provided for Ubuntu users, rather than anyone.  That said, I've been avoiding partner since before it was "commercial", so I may not be the best person to ask.
<superm1> sebner, ah i was thinking you were.  Well if asac has a plan for it, i'm sure this will get a more thorough discussion at UDS including the technical difficulties to overcome if it really does need to grab the deb in the postinst.  I'd think probably what the implementation would really look like was apturl temporarily fetching from the partner repo instead of using the flashplugin-installer, but we'll see what really happens
<sebner> superm1: yep
<superm1> persia, well regarding avoiding partner, there's not much there anyhow, and i expect most of what is there would require a license key or EULA that is part of the application or packaging to use.
<persia> superm1, Well, maybe.  I wouldn't be that surprised if it contained various free binary stuff that some vendor didn't want to package, and for which nobody volunteered to write a free installer wrapper.
<persia> (where "free" is "gratis" rather than "libre")
<superm1> i personally prefer a deb that is maintained by canonical employees on partner over a "wrapper/installer" deb that we maintain in multiverse.  at least debs that are being kept on partner will track all files as part of the package rather than doing activities in the postinst to put them in various places on your system
<superm1> oh this is interesting, i didn't realize panda software had an AV client for linux being kept there.  ScottK were you aware that Clam AV had closed source competition? :)
<sebner> ScottK is our AV hero =)
<ScottK> superm1: Yes.  There's quite a bit of it.
<superm1> ScottK, other than panda, what else?
<geser> does fprot still have a linux version?
<ScottK> I think avg has something, maybe trendmicro.  I don't recall for sure. fprot too.  If you look in the amavisd-new default config files/docs they tell you how to wire a pile of them into amavid-new
<persia> superm1, Hrm.  I guess I see your point, and I'd agree Ubuntu users would be better served by dropping flashplugin-installer.  I'm just not sure how this affects MEPIS or Mint, but I suppose that's their problem, and they could maintain it from the last published source, or pull from upstream directly.
<geser> and avast has a linux version of their virus scanner too
<coppro> why should we drop flashplugin-installer?
<superm1> coppro, i'm saying in favor of the flash plugin deb that's kept on the canonical partner repository.
<coppro> oh
<coppro> as long as I can install flash, I'm happy
<superm1> coppro, eg http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/
<bobbo> sebner: ping
<sebner> bobbo: ahoi! how can I help you =)
<bobbo> sebner: hey :)
<bobbo> sebner: could i steal the cfingerd from you?
<sebner> bobbo: but stealing is a crime O_o
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> bobbo: of course you can! :)
<bobbo> sebner: cool, thanks alot :)
<DRebellion> Has anybody got any suggestions on formats/tools to help write manpages?
<sebner> bobbo: to be honest I can't even remember what it's about. I merged/synced so many things .. I barely remember the name "cfingerd"
<DRebellion> eg. docbook, pod, etc?
<RainCT> DRebellion: You've info on POD at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpages, but I recommend just using plain groff (or whatever it's called)
<bobbo> sebner: hehe, i just got shouted at for not asking people before merging, so I am being extra careful :D
<DRebellion> RainCT, ok, thanks
<DRebellion> I will go with the plain groff then
<sebner> bobbo: and that's really how it should be. Thx for asking :)
<coppro> I thought it was nroff?
<RainCT> DRebellion: here you've a random example upon which you can base yours http://paste.ubuntu.com/68987/plain/
<DRebellion> RainCT, btw, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpages doesn't exist ;)
<RainCT> arr, copied the wrong link. it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpage
<RainCT> coppro: maybe :)
<sebner> RainCT: /myself uses plain gedit xD
<ScottK> If it's Perl that's really how one shoule do it (POD2man)
 * ScottK generally uses vim.
<coppro> kate ftw
<RainCT> geany :P
<sebner> ScottK: ah. btw, I hope it was ok that I quoted you. (If you read my application already) :\
<NCommander> hey ScottK
<RainCT> coppro: yep, you're right
<sebner> bobbo: and of course you can steal stuff from me because you are my Application mate ;P
<ScottK> sebner: Sure.
<ScottK> heya NCommander.
<bobbo> sebner: rofl! Not heard that one before :D
<NCommander> ScottK, so I dented the queue <g>
<sebner> ScottK: ok thx. But in generel I tend to ask people before I do such stuff. Sry for that
<ScottK> NCommander: Great.
<sebner> bobbo: :P
<NCommander> ScottK, how go things for you?
<ScottK> sebner: If I say something in public, I think it's fair game.
<ScottK> NCommander: I bit hectic.
<sebner> k
<NCommander> ScottK, ouch
<ScottK> I/A
<NCommander> sebner, I saw you MOTU application, yay :-)
<sebner> NCommander: I already told you that I saw yours and I still want to hide ;)
 * directhex hands NCommander cake
<csilk> Any reason why why pbuilder would fail to create a build environment claiming > debootstrap failed?
 * NCommander wonders if the cake is a lie
<NCommander> csilk, are you trying to build a jaunty chroot?
<ScottK> Daughter #1 and #3 have ballet in 1 hour.  Daughter #2 wants to go to the high school football game in 3 hours (same time as pickup for #1 and #3) and daughter #1 has a church ice skating trip in 4 hours.  Somewhere in there I have some monthly reports and invoices that are overdue.
<csilk> NCommander, intrepid
<NCommander> csilk, and you are running?
<csilk> intrepid
<NCommander> Odd
<NCommander> What is the error?
<sebner> ScottK: O_o
<csilk> This works fine an my other machine which is the strange thing NCommander  > http://paste.ubuntu.com/68999/
<csilk> *on
<NCommander> *blink*
<NCommander> Is there any more backscrool?
<csilk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69001/
<sebner> ScottK: it's funny for me because for me your family represents the typical american family for use european. (well, though ballet is still strange) ^^
<sebner> *use = us
<ScottK> Well just recall that the perspective you get from over there of America is very much exaggerated.
<ScottK> We had German exchange students living with us for four years and they were all very suprised when they got here.
<sebner> heh
<csilk> NCommander, any idea?
<csilk> This machine is pretty much the same as my laptop where the intrepid pbuild environment has worked fine from day one
<NCommander> YOu are running pbuilder with sudo, right?
<csilk> of course
<NCommander> No, not off hand I do
<sebner> ScottK: to me it seems in america it's pretty common to take foreign exchange students, right? not like here ...
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> Whoever packaged this for Debian was an idiot. I can't figure out how to do a fakesync without making a native tarball
<NCommander> (which is what the previous upload did)
<ScottK> sebner: It depends.  I wouldn't say 'pretty common' but there are generally a few in most any large school.  They're staying with someone.
 * sebner will exchange to american and live with ScottK and as reward he'll train ballet with this daughters :D :P
<persia> NCommander, which package?
<ScottK> sebner will go no where near ScottK's daughters.
<sebner> xD
<NCommander> persia, libdebug
 * sebner can also wash his car instead =)
<NCommander> persia, it looks like it was a native in Debian, then got diffed here, then NMUed into a proper orig.tar.gz, and now I'm trying to see if I can craft a version string thats greater than the old one, yet will still allow syncing
<persia> NCommander, You can't.
<NCommander> so just upload it as a native package?
<persia> Personally, I think we ought always ubuntuize native packages as X.Y-0.0ubuntuZ, but everyone claims that NMUs of native packages aren't frequent enough to bother.
 * NCommander already fakesynced two 
<NCommander> So I'm going to say I agree w/ you
<persia> Um.  it ought still be native.
<persia> Yeah, 0.4.2-0.1 is a native package in sid.  No orig.tar.gz.
<persia> NMUs for naive packages get -0.x versioning.
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> I don't think I've ever read that before
<persia> So you want 0.4.2ubuntu2 unfortunately.
<NCommander> That's what I did
<persia> `apt-cache showsrc libdebug` in a sid environment would have saved you some headache :)
<NCommander> persia, out of curosity, do you know if/how syncs and backports are attributed to people?
<NCommander> mr_pouit was attributed to the codeblocks backport, but he had nothing to do either the packaging or the backport itself O_o;
<RainCT> NCommander: not sure, but I think archive admins tell the script they use for syncing who it should be attributed to
<NCommander> RainCT, I've never had any of my syncs show up on my list of packages
<persia> NCommander, It's Changed-By.  Some archive admins adjust it to be reporter or ACKer or something.  Others just leave the name in the last changelog entry.
<NCommander> o_O;
<NCommander> That package was acked by cody-somerville and LucidFox, and I did all the packaging on it
<persia> NCommander, If you haven't then you've not had one of the regular archive admins.
<NCommander> I don't think he even did an upload of the 0ubuntu2 version
<persia> Well, it's about the .changes file.  If you think it's sufficiently wrong that you want to harass the archive-admins, go ahead.  Remember, they're all busy people, and less likely to prioritise your stuff if annoyed :)
<mr_pouit> that's not a big issue, juste some weird magic
<NCommander> lol
<NCommander> persia, I already spam bombed the archive admins
<NCommander> persia, I don't think they are so happy w/ me at the moment ;-)
<ScottK> NCommander: Look at all the syncs and backports this guy has done, look at his LP ID and then tell me what you think happened: https://launchpad.net/~scottk/+related-software
<Laney> He should apply for MOTU clearly
<persia> Well, that's part of why the process isn't just about upload count as described by launchpad.
<persia> Some people get in with ~10 uploads.  Others seem to require ~400 before being ready.  SpecialK would probably have to demonstrate a far number of non-backport non-syncs to be considered.
 * NCommander wonders if persia missed the joke
 * RainCT wonders if he has ever seen persia laughing :P
<Laney> tickle him and see
<NCommander> Is there a way to specify the default key to sign w/?
<NCommander> I don't like having to look up my keys fingerprint everytime I sponsor something
<RainCT> NCommander: you can use your email
<RainCT> debuild .. -k<email address>   or whatever
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Handy
<sebner> RainCT: +1
 * NCommander might just write a script around debuild/debsign sponsor-sign that uses DEBEMAIL
<RainCT> \o/ I've got a +1.          For what is it? :D
 * NCommander just learned the hardware to test build on both i386 and amd64
<geser> NCommander: $ grep KEYID ~/.devscripts
<geser> DEBSIGN_KEYID=0x968BD587
<sebner> RainCT: for the joke about persia which isn't a joke ^^
<NCommander> O_O!
 * NCommander hugs geser 
<RainCT> sebner: ah, that's plain truth :)
<RainCT> actually, I'm pretty sure that persia is a bot :P
<sebner> No O_o
<sebner> hihi
<geser> NCommander: I've also DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-us -uc" in .devscripts and use debsign when I've something worth uploading (that way I it's much harder to upload unfinished stuff)
<NCommander> Oh, I love you now geser
<sebner> geser: of course this also works with pdebuild?
<NCommander> I dunno even what pdebuild does
<geser> I guess, but I don't use pdebuild
 * NCommander just builds a source package and builds that
 * sebner also loves geser :P
<sebner> NCommander: It runs debuild and pbuilder with just 1 commands
<sebner> *command
<NCommander> Handy
<persia> Well, maybe.
<james_w> the one issue with DEBSIGN_KEYID is that it will no longer catch typos in Changed-By:, but as that is generally just DEBFULLNAME or whatever, then it's not a big problem
<sebner> the crap is that it installed a lot java stuff and eclipse
<persia> I like to verify my source changes before starting to wait for a build to run.
<geser> james_w: for sponsoring setting DEBSIGN_KEYID is a great help
<persia> It's 8 characters representing 32 bits of data.  Should be easier to remember than your password.
<persia> (At least I hope nobody here uses a password of 8 characters or less that contains no more than 32 bits of entropy)
<persia> at least not for an account that has access to a secret key
<james_w> geser: oh, I agree, it's fantastic, the failure case just occured to me. The benefit far outweighs the risk anyway.
 * RainCT is doing his first upload to jaunty \o/
<gouki> Can someone help me understand what went wrong here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69050
<persia> Could you paste the entire build log?
<persia> Also, really, don't bother packaging that.  It's not worth it.  It's redundant, less functional than current alternatives, and you're surely going to get interested in something else and not maintain it.
<gouki> persia, I just keep going with it because I had some good feedback from it (good as in I learned a few things).
<persia> gouki, I can understand that, but it's useless.  If you want to learn, perhaps you'd like to work on a useful package?
<pangloss> persia: care to suggest some?
<persia> There's a few I'd like that I don't have time to chase, and I'd be happy to give you a pointer.
<gouki> persia, sure. What do you suggest?
<persia> pangloss, Sure you want one too?
<pangloss> persia: yes
<gouki> I also packaged a game, but it's giving me the same error as this bsod one. Which is already in REVU, BTW: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
<persia> OK.  First off, there's an official list of user-requested packages that's a good place to check, with 1424 current requests: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<gouki> And yes, the name is correct :)
<gouki> persia, I already went looking there, but I didn't found anything interesting (something I use). I read somewhere that one shouldn't maintain something that he doesn't use, so I didn't go for it.
<persia> Ah, well, there's a difference between packaging something and maintaining something.
<persia> It's good to use anything you package at least while you are packaging it.
<persia> You don't necessarily have to maintain it, if you can find someone else to do it.
<gouki> Sure. I didn't mean that in a rude way!
<persia> On the other hand, the only reason to package something is either because you're going to want to use it, or you know someone else is going to want to use it, and you want to do work to make them happy.
<gouki> persia, what are the ones you were thinking about packaging? It can be anything too complex, as I'm still trying to successfully build something :S
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-08
<pangloss> gouki: did you follow the recipes?
<Laney> Packaging something from scratch is generally considered to be "advanced". Have you considered working on some bugfixes at first?
<gouki> pangloss, yeah, pretty much. When I was able to do actually do something that worked, I bumped into a license problem, and ended up going back to 0 :)
<persia> Anyway, here's the list of my personal open needs-packaging bugs : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=persia&field.tag=needs-packaging
<persia> Feel free to take one of those if you want an example to learn packaging, and if you don't want to maintain it, that's fine.
<pangloss> persia: thank you =)
<persia> pangloss, No, thank you.  Those are toys I'd like to play with, but haven't actually gotten around to packaging.  ingen is probably the most interesting, as there are a couple dupes to the bug report, and it means we get to drop the obsolete om.
<persia> If you package them, I get new toys and an opportunity to drop cruft :)
<gouki> :)
<gouki> persia, the entire output is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053
<gouki> This would help me fix the typing game error I'm also having.
<gouki> Since the error is the same, on both packages (and the game is actually fun :))
<wgrant> Hmm, I didn't realise that we had amassed 120000 bugs in less than 11 months.
<wgrant> Well, LP, not us.
<persia> If you're packaging a game, I'll suggest you come join #debian-games on OFTC.  We're a mix of Debian and Ubuntu folk, and just push everything to Debian to reduce the number of revisions.
<gouki> persia, sure thing. Let me just tell you that this is text-based game, to practice fast typing :) Not something complex like a FPS :)
<persia> wgrant, A lot of those were Ubuntu, but a decreasing percentage.  I'd say we're getting close to a throughput of about 2500 bugs a week.
<persia> gouki, That's OK.  Some people claim kanatest isn't even a game.
<pangloss> persia: 2500.. wow thats great
<pangloss> is there a way to compare that to non opensource projects bug throughput?
<wgrant> 2500 is the opposite of great.
<wgrant> Non-free projects don't often have public bugtrackers.
<wgrant> And there is no non-free Ubuntu.
<pangloss> wgrant 2500 is bad for free?
<pangloss> o.O
<wgrant> We can't manage 2500 new bugs a week very well.
<persia> wgrant, No, 2500 is great.  That's bugsquad throughput.  That bugsquad needs to attain such numbers is the opposite of great.
<wgrant> Oh.
<persia> Well, last week wasn't stellar.  Only 2109 bugs closed, but it does get over 2500 some weeks.
<persia> Scaling to more incoming reports just needs more eyes, but that's not the real issue.  The real issue is the 19321 bugs that are waiting for developer input.
<persia> That number is growing by 150-200 bugs a week, which is where we're really failing to scale.
<persia> (146 for week ending 1st November)
<wgrant> 19321 are Confirmed? Or New?
<persia> confirmed or triaged and unassigned.
<wgrant> Ah.
<persia> Mind you, the practice of the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team of assigning themselves to lots of stuff masks the numbers some, so consider that a lower bound.
<wgrant> Yes...
<wgrant> And kernel team to.
<wgrant> +o
<persia> Yeah, well, I don't mind so much with the kernel team, as it's going to be the kernel team that fixes all of those.
<persia> Whereas with the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team, I often encounter people who want to fix it, and are working on a patch, but aren't sure how to proceed because the bug is claimed.
<wgrant> True.
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> I've never seen a rationale for that policy.
<pangloss> persia: cant you just reassign the bug to yourself?
<persia> That said, I've seen bugs where members of the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team pushed patches upstream *three* years ago, and they still aren't available in Ubuntu, which bothers me a bit.
<persia> pangloss, Dunno.  Ask the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team.
<pangloss> hm
<persia> I consider it impolite to reassign a bug without discussing with the current assignee.
<wgrant> I think that can be considered a special case where that usually sane rule can be disregarded.
<persia> Well, except that the Desktop team seems to get annoyed if someone pushes a patch to fix some bugs, and would rather that the patches get pushed upstream and accepted upstream, even if that takes several years because upstream is inactive.
<persia> Anyway, it's only about 50-60 packages that are covered by that team, so it's at most a minor irritant.  If the bug is frustrating enough, talking to them may permit a patch to be applied.  Just assigning oneself may well cause strife.
<nhandler> Quick question, in debian/control, you only need one Section tag under the Source section of the file, correct? You don't need one in the Source *and* in each Package section
<persia> nhandler, Depends on the package.  If all the binary packages belong in the same section, putting it in source is fine.  If a couple of the binary packages go in special sections, only add section to those stanzas.  If every binary package belongs in a different section, there's not much point to having one in the Source stanza.
<nhandler> persia: Thanks a lot. I just wanted to verify this before telling someone to change it on REVU
<persia> So, say you're packaging something that produces a library, a development library, a daemon, a couple front-ends, and a plugins package.  You'd put the right section in source, and add special sections for the libfoo and libfoo-dev binary packages.
<persia> Wheras something like libjs could probably just have binary sections because each of the binary packages belongs in a different section.
<Yasumoto> RAOF: got my first attempt at merging miro up at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miro/+bug/294459 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294459 in miro "Please merge miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<persia> s/libjs/libjsw/
<Yasumoto> RAOF: if you wouldn't mind checking it out if you've got some time (no rush), I'd appreciate it
<RAOF> Yasumoto: Thanks.  I noticed it, and it's on my list.  This weekend's going to be a bit busy, though ;)
<Yasumoto> RAOF: yeah, no worries, I've got to work on stuff for SCaLE and some homework projects, just wanted to check in and let you know
<geser> Yasumoto: it's better if you list the remaining changes instead of the dropped changes in your merge changelog entry
<Yasumoto> geser: As I was going through, I didn't find any changes that were remaining, all the conflicts were just version updates
<Yasumoto> er.. That's what I should be making note of, right? Things the MoM found issues with?
<geser> Yasumoto: if you look at the Debian->Ubuntu debdiff: everything there is a remaining change
<persia> gouki, Sorry for the delay.  I think I found it.  You're pushing stuff to $(CURDIR)/bsod-0.1/ and you want to push to $(CURDIR)/bsod
<Yasumoto> geser: *doh*
<Yasumoto> that would make sense
<Yasumoto> geser: I wouldn't relist changelog entries, right?
<persia> Yasumoto, Depending on the changelog entry, that might be the easiest way.  If the previous entries are particularly verbose, feel free to tighten up the wording, as long as it remains clear.
<nhandler> Anyone know how long DaD will be down?
<Yasumoto> geser + persia: thanks guys
<persia> I don't think it's a planned outage.  Use MoM while you wait.
<nhandler> persia: Yes it is. It is being upgraded for jaunty
<gouki> persia, ohh, thank you for getting back to me!
<gouki> persia, I'll change that on rules and see if it works.
<persia> nhandler, Ah, in that case, probably be fixed over the weekend.  May as well tackle UEHS, unless you'd rather look at MoM.
<gouki> BTW ... Is it recommended to delete commented lines from rules?
<wgrant> UEHS should now have a working watch wizard and popcon results.
<persia> gouki, The more you can make debian/rules easier to read, the better.
<azeem> gouki: depends on whether the comment is useful or not
<gouki> persia, hmmm, OK.
<persia> wgrant, Is this new now, or as of ~ 12 hours ago?  (It seemed to be working for me then)
<wgrant> persia: The watch wizard wasn't fully working until a few hours ago.
<persia> Ah.  I grabbed a couple watch files, but that would explain the number of errors I saw.
<wgrant> There are still lots of errors, of course.
<persia> Poor quality debian/copyrights, I presume.
<gouki> persia, as for the error, it's weird, since I don't have anything to change in rules that is pointing to $(CURDIR)/bsod-0.1/
<persia> Does watch wizard understand the machine-readable debian/copyright format yet?
<wgrant> I don't quite know.
<wgrant> Was one ever decided on?
<persia> gouki, Compare your debian/rules to the build output.  Look for what is being replaced.  There's probably a hint somewhere to determine how it generated that, and fix it.
<persia> Decided upon, kinda.  Approved, no.
<gouki> OK, persia.
<persia> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat would be the current candidate, which seems to be seeing use in an increasing number of packages.
<directhex> i used that one!
<persia> Mind you, few of these would show on UEHS, as we're (mostly) enforcing sanity in REVU, and packages that were updated are unlikely to be orphaned.
<gouki> persia, sorry, but .. I've been looking at the rules files and comparing the output from pbuilder, and I can't find anything worth changing :S
<persia> OK.  paste debian/rules and debian/control
<gouki> persia, they're on REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/banihstypos-0811072139/banihstypos-0.2/debian/
<persia> Ah, then I want a build log for that :p
<gouki> persia, sure thing :)
<persia> uncomment DH_VERBOSE=1 for extra information.
<gouki> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69071
<persia> gouki, My apologies.  I keep getting distracted.  Could you paste a binary build log?  The error isn't shown at 69071
<gouki> persia, no problem whatsoever!
<gouki> persia, a binary build log, like the one generated on pbuilder?
<persia> Right.
<persia> The log that shows the build failre.
<persia> Could be pbuilder, sbuild, debuild -b, cowbuilder, PPA, etc.
<persia> On that note, does anyone know if qemubuilder is working properly?
<gouki> I paste a pbuilder output a couple of hours ago: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/
<gouki> Would that be good?
<persia> These are two separate packages.  Hard to compare.
<effie_jayx> how do i check what kind of patching I must use for a specific package. I am thinking about changing some paths in the source code
<effie_jayx> ?
<gouki> persia, my bad! But bsod is also on REVU, let me get you the link
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/ vs. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/banihstypos-0811072139/banihstypos-0.2/debian/rules
<gouki> persia, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bsod
<persia> Oh, See I actually wanted to look at banihstypos.  I'll look at bsod, if you've pushed the same version that generated that log.
<gouki> persia, yeah. So: This is the package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bsod     and this is the output from the build: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/
<persia> effie_jayx, what-patch might help, from ubuntu-dev-tools
<effie_jayx> persia, thanks
<effie_jayx> persia, it says "patchless?"
<effie_jayx> and I wouldn't be suprised if it is so
<persia> gouki, Ah, I think you want DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/ run debuild -b and check.
<gouki> persia, sure thing.
<gouki> ls
<gouki> oops! :S
<persia> effie_jayx, Run lsdiff against the diff.gz.  Sometimes what-patch doesn't catch those.
<effie_jayx> persia, lsdiff kipina_0.2.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz  gives no output at all
<persia> lsdiff -z
<gouki> persia, thank you. I was able to see from the output of debuild -b that dependencies are not being satisfied. I have ncurses-dev on my control, and I'm sure it doesn't require anything else. Do you want me to paste it for you?
<persia> gouki, Remember that the dependencies are typically automatically pulled by pbuilder/sbuild/cowbuilder/etc.
<persia> You need to install them on your local system if you want debuild -b to work.
<gouki> persia, ohhh, so let me try that again with the package installed.
 * persia usually does debuild -b in a chroot to avoid cluttering the local system
<gouki> persia, I'm running on a VM with a clean snapshot taken. :)
<effie_jayx> persia, I can see the files modified by the patch, how can I tell what patch system to use
<persia> effie_jayx, Look at the output of lsdiff.  If there's stuff in debian/patches, what-patch is supposed to tell you, and if it doesn't, check debian/README.source, and if that doesn't help, check debian/rules.
<persia> If there's not stuff in debian/patches, and there's stuff outside of debian, it uses patch-in-diff.gz, so just change the stuff you want to change in an editor, and generate a new diff.gz against the orig.tar.gz.
<persia> If there's not stuff in debian/patches and there's nothing outside debian/ you get to choose.  In this case, for packages from Debian, I recommend looking at other packages with the same maintainer, and using that patch system.  Where that fails, if the package uses CDBS, use simple-patchsys.  The rest of the time, use whatever you personally prefer.
<effie_jayx> persia,  ok. there is no debian patches and there is stuff changed outsude debian
<gouki> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/69080 is the output of debuild -b
<persia> effie_jayx, Then it's patches-in-diff.gz, so just edit in place, and generate a new diff.gz.
<persia> gouki, That's expected.  However, right now you have the broken build-tree to play with.  Check for debian/tmp and debian/bsod.  See what exists and what doesn't.
<persia> This can help you troubleshoot your rules.
<gouki> persia, my debian/bsod is empty. Normal?
<persia> There was a debian/bsod?
<persia> Was there a debian/tmp?
<gouki> No, but apparently one was created when I ran debuild -b
<gouki> No, there weren't any of those.
<persia> Right, that's why you ran debuild -b : to find out what was being created.
<persia> If it's empty, the upstream build system isn't creating the directory structure properly.
<persia> Add the directories you need to debian/bsod.dirs without the initial /
<persia> Also, you want to make it use /usr/bin, rather than /usr/local/bin
<gouki> My mentor told me to delete dirs, since it was only creating know folders.
<gouki> *known
<persia> Your mentor obviously didn't actually review just how broken the upstream build system apparently is :)
<persia> Most upstream build systems create the folders they need for installation.
<persia> In these cases, debian/dirs is mostly useless.
<gouki> So, having the initial debian/dirs file is OK, with usr/bin in it.
<persia> In the rare case where upstream doesn't do that, you need it (which is why it exists).
<persia> If you need it, yes.
<persia> Always try without debian/dirs first, and only add it if the build breaks because the directory is missing.
<gouki> Very well. I'll create the file again and give it another test drive :)
<gouki> Oh, OK! Thank you very much persia, really!
<persia> gouki, No problem.  Thanks for helping.  Now purge bsod and concentrate on a useful package :)
<gouki> LOL! OK! :P
 * gouki goes back to his spelling game
<gouki> Well, even with usr/bin on debian/dirs, it still fails with the same error :S
<effie_jayx> persia, this seems like looking for a nail in a hay stack
<persia> gouki, /tmp/buildd/bsod-0.1/debian/bsod/usr/local/bin': No such file or directory
<persia> gouki, Notice the lack of "/usr/bin" in that.
<persia> If you put /usr/local/bin in debian/dirs, that would make the error go away, but that would be wrong.
<persia> So put /usr/bin there, and find a way to tell the build system to use that instead of /usr/local/bin
<persia> effie_jayx, What?  How do you mean?
<effie_jayx> persia,  I am trying to find in line in the source code where the app loads a xml file from /usr/etc instead of /etc/
<persia> effie_jayx, strace is the tool you seek.
<effie_jayx> ok
 * effie_jayx man's strace
<persia> It shows every system call made by the program, so when you get to the access to /usr/etc you can see waht comes before it, and that can help you understand where in the code it is happening.
<effie_jayx> mmkey, very cool tool
<persia> If it's early enough in the output, you can probably step through the code while reading the strace and see every step it takes to get there.
<effie_jayx> uff lots of output
<persia> Well, it's *every* syscall :)
<effie_jayx> let me send it to a field
<effie_jayx> right
<persia> I usually pipe it into a file, and then view the file and search for the bits I want.
<effie_jayx> persia, cool
<gouki> persia, hehe! Thanks! Found it, and it worked! :)
<gouki> ls
<gouki> persia, if you have a minute, I believe this is working OK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
<persia> gouki, Unfortuntely, I need to head out soon.  Maybe someone else could take a look?
<nhandler> gouki: I'll take a look at it
<gouki> nhandler, thank you very much! :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  very helpfull your tips as usuall... I found my issue. I need to move a file to /home/$user/.kipina and that would be it
<effie_jayx> and install file would be good
<Adri2000> nhandler: DaD: universe/multiverse is done, and universe.php is generated. I just launched main; main.php will be generated as soon as it is finished
<Adri2000> also, everyone, note that unfortunately there are still a *lot* of broken merges (the /!\ ones) which seems to be mainly due to snapshot.d.n lacking some packages. in that case we cannot do anything except advising to use MoM.
<effie_jayx> anyone could point out a url that might help me get started on writing an install file?
<nhandler> Thanks a lot Adri2000 for the heads up
<gouki> nhandler, just saw your comment. Will work on it right away.
<nhandler> gouki: I subscribed to the package, so I should get an email when you prepare a new upload.
<gouki> nhandler, thank you very much.
<gouki> nhandler, about the License ... Do I have to mention the /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL file even when the license used is gplv2?
<gouki> Because I have the path to the license: "On Debian systems, the complete text of ..." under the license.
<nhandler> gouki: I must have skipped over that.
<nhandler> gouki: You can ignore that comment then
<gouki> nhandler, ok. thank you.
<gouki> Should I ask on REVU or is here OK?
<nhandler> About what?
<gouki> Now would be about the games warning.
<nhandler> You can ask here
<gouki> Even with this text-only (typing game) it should be installed to usr/games?
<nhandler> gouki: If you specify a Section of games in debian/control, I believe you are required to install to /usr/games
<gouki> nhandler, OK.
<gouki> One last thing ..
<gouki> The error about the distribution ...
<nhandler> The first one gouki?
<gouki> nhandler, yes, the first one.
<nhandler> jdong: You can ignore the "bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty". That will go away once lintian is updated in Ubuntu
<nhandler> Your distribution in debian/changelog is correct
<gouki> You meant gouki, right? :)
<nhandler> Yes I did gouki ;)
<gouki> Heheh! Sure nhandler, thank you very much.
<gouki> Ohhh .. As for the manpage ...
<nhandler> What about it?
<gouki> If the software doesn't come with a manpage ... ?
<nhandler> gouki: Most applications don't come with manpages. You need to create it.
<gouki> nhandler, any pointers on how do I do that?
<nhandler> gouki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages
<gouki> Every time I delete the commented lines in rules, it fails to build the package sources.
<nhandler> Are you sure you are only removing the commented lines?
<nhandler> The commented lines are the lines beginning with a #
<gouki> nhandler, yes. It happened several times before, and I can't understand why :S
<gouki> yes.
<nhandler> That is really strange gouki. Comments should not affect how the package builds
<gouki> nhandler, lintian -i to see a more detailed report, right?
<nhandler> Yes
<gouki> Well, got it down to one error :) the jaunty one
<nhandler> You can ignore that one, so you are good :)
<gouki> Hmm, not really :S
<gouki> Fails to build
<gouki> I changed what I had (/usr/bin) to usr/games on the makefile. doesn't seem to work very good
<gouki> Maybe I need the dirs file.
<nhandler> gouki: I'm too tired to think straight any longer. I'm heading off to bed. I'll be glad to help you some more tomorrow if you still need help
<gouki> nhandler, ok. Thank you very much for the help.
<nhandler> You're welcome gouki
<gouki> ls
<jdong> hmm interesting, ondemand -> performance has significantly cut down on audio blipping on this iMac.
<jdong> I thought these modern chips were supposed to transition frequencies fast enough for this not to be an issue.
<jdong> perhaps timer/clock skew?
<wgrant> jdong: Doesn't mjg59 recommend against frequency scaling?
<jdong> wgrant: does he really?
<jdong> wgrant: I was unaware of that
<jdong> wgrant: I've only read him recommending against locking your CPU in the lowest frequency (i.e. 'powersave') as it actually keeps the CPU awake longer, wasting more power
<lidb> is revu day going on?
<wgrant> Right, http://mjg59.livejournal.com/88608.html is my reference. It seems he recommends running in ondemand, actually.
<wgrant> I haven't read that in a while, so might be a bit forgetful.
<wgrant> So it seems I was somewhat wrong.
<lidb> hello, any one can review my package: iptux, fqterm and llk-linux, thanks
<jdong> wgrant: interestingly in battery life tests I've done, ondemand vs performance had little impact. But I can feel right now the latency of those state switches. compiz desk switching is jerky. Sometimes scrolling in FF is jerky. Flash videos have skippy audio on CPU activity. For now, I'll go with performance...
<wgrant> jdong: What do I poke at to change the governor these days?
<jdong> wgrant: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
<jdong> wgrant: if you use GNOME, the frequency scaling applet can do it too
<jdong> it's now PolicyKit enabled too
<jdong> wgrant: from my testing, removing powernowd using update-rc.d should lock you into performance at startup
<wgrant> Oh, I didn't know the applet could do anything but view it.
<wgrant> Aha, I see.
<wgrant> Convenient.
<wgrant> Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<wgrant> PowerTop likes my batter:
<wgrant> +y
<wgrant> Power usage (5 minute ACPI estimate) :   0.1 W (453.8 hours left)
<jdong> wgrant: do you have the world's first nuclear powered laptop? :)
<wgrant> jdong: Of course.
<jdong> awesome :)
<ScottK> HPPA doesn't do nearly as good a job of keeping up when 80% of the packages on FTBFS on that arch.
<wgrant> ScottK: Hmm, is it really that high now?
<ScottK> No.  It's doing quite well now.
<ScottK> For most of the latter part of Intrepid it was pretty bad.
<wgrant> Yes...
<ScottK> No, now that stuff's building it's way behind.
<wgrant> Poor ia64 isn't going too quickly this time.
<ScottK> No.  PowerPC is doing well.
 * NCommander wakes up
<NCommander> Did someone say PowerPC?
<NCommander> wgrant, we're waiting for at least alpha one before smashing the FTBFS in ports
<NCommander> Since a good number of failures are just misidentified dep-waits
<NCommander> How did lpia finish building everything os fast ....
<wgrant> It has newish hardware, and a fair bit of stuff likely doesn't build there.
<NCommander> wgrant, you care about ia64?
 * NCommander notes that lpia has LOADS of build failures :-/
<iulian> geser: Heya, may I steal the hnb merge from you?
 * NCommander searches for intelligent conversation
<iulian> geser: Anyway, I see bug 245706 which tells us we should sync instead of merge. As far as I can see the package was not tested in Ubuntu (using the Debian patch). I'm not really sure what to do. In the mean time I will test the debian version to see if it works using the Debin patch, if yes then we can sync, if not I will merge it keeping our patch.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245706 in hnb "Please sync hnb 1.9.18-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245706
<iulian> geser: Any advice would be appreciated.
<iulian> Or anyone else.
<NCommander> directhex, ping
<laga> w
<laga> oops.
<iulian> geser: OK, I tested the Debian version and confirmed bug 49618. On the other hand, the modified package (the one with the Ubuntu patch) FTBFS with the following message: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69135/plain/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 49618 in hnb "editing node: cursor stays at end of line" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49618
<geser> iulian: Hi and yes, you can have hnb for merging
<iulian> geser: Thanks. Any ideas why it FTBFS? I resolved the conflicts by just removing the debian changes from the src/ui_draw.c and src/ui.edit.c files and kept the ubuntu changes.
<iulian> geser: I can make a debdiff between the debian .dsc and the modified one to convince yourself.
<geser> iulian: but the Debian package builds?
<geser> the current Debian package uses quilt for patch management while the current Ubuntu delta is applied directly, so a first step would be to convert it into a quilt patch (perhaps it also solves your FTBFS problem this way)
<iulian> geser: Yes, I tested the Debian package and it builds fine.
<iulian> s/builds/built
<iulian> OK, I'll see what I can do, thanks.
<iulian> geser: I've no idea how to fix it. It seems that there are two different bugs regarding the position of the cursor. I will just leave the merge to someone more experienced than me.
<persia> gouki, Nuked.  Thanks for asking.
<geser> iulian: no problem
<NCommander> wow
 * NCommander just learned that Debian's spiral isn't the complete official logo
 * jpds throws his http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1593270690/ in NCommander's direction.
 * NCommander recongizes names on the review page
<NCommander> jpds, as an aside, that ain't the official logo either
<jpds> NCommander: The book has a section on the logo.
<NCommander> it does?
<jpds> Yeah, among a bunch of other things.
<NCommander> ok, care to sum up why the official logo isn't used any mor?
<jpds> NCommander: http://www.debian.org/logos/ ?
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> I've never seen the genie bottlle on before
<persia> Used to be available as a default background, although it's been a while since I ran a default install on a desktop.
<NCommander> not on edge or lenny
<NCommander> I don't think it was for sarge either
<persia> (which perhaps demonstrates about how long I've been running an Ubuntu desktop)
<NCommander> what release was before sarge
<NCommander> woody?
<persia> Yep.
<NCommander> woody was the first Debian system I used
<NCommander> I don't think it was there
<persia> Not the primary one, but in the standard desktop-backgrounds set.
<persia> I think there was a gdm theme with the bottle as well.
<persia> Might still be there, although I've long forgotten the relevant package name.
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> I dunno then
 * NCommander just learned backports.org backports kernels ...
<persia> Given a six-month release cycle, and the number of issues we have every cycle due to API changes, don't let that be an inspiration.
<NCommander> I didn't say anything !
 * NCommander is crazy, but not THAT crazy
<DktrKranz> pochu, if you have time, mind have a look at bug 260765?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260765 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "DVD playback does not work anymore" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260765
 * NCommander glances at the intrepid/hardy bug lists
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> morning NCommander
<DktrKranz> but I guess is quite late there
<NCommander> DktrKranz, yup
<NCommander> DktrKranz, are you running intrepid?
<DktrKranz> no
<DktrKranz> jaunty, but I have a VM available
<NCommander> care to test something?
<DRebellion> In `sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd', how does the 'buildd' option affect the chroot/building process?
<DktrKranz> vmware is doing some cleanups, in a half an hour I guess, but sure
<NCommander> DRebellion, it installs build-essential
<NCommander> fakeroot, and devscripts I think
<NCommander> DktrKranz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/mtd-utils/+bug/294428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294428 in mtd-utils "mtd-utils build fail" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<DRebellion> NCommander, that's it? And the normal pbuilder doesn't?
<NCommander> it doesn't matter
<DRebellion> ok
<DRebellion> NCommander, thanks.
<NCommander> pbuilder will install fakeroot/build-essential if needed
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'll take it soon
<NCommander> thanks :-)
<NCommander> the package built w.o failure
<NCommander> SO it should just be an ACK
<DktrKranz> a verification one
<DRebellion> How can I get pbuilder to build, then clean, then build again from the cleaned sources? Does revu-build do this?
<Hobbsee> DRebellion: it does that by default?
<DRebellion> Hobbsee, pbuilder or revu-build?
<Hobbsee> DRebellion: pbuilder.  no idea what revu-build as such does
<DRebellion> oh...
 * DRebellion checks his build logs
<DRebellion> Hobbsee, it doesn't seem to have done that here.
<DRebellion> `sudo pbuilder build --logfile xxx.log xxx.dsc'
<Hobbsee> DRebellion: it creates a new chroot, clean and without the build-deps in it, each time.
<DRebellion> Hobbsee, oh, I think you have misunderstood. I want to create the chroot, install the deps, etc. Then build in the chroot, then clean those sources, then build again in the same chroot with the cleaned sources.
<Hobbsee> oh, right
 * Hobbsee doesn't think it has a builtin for that.
<Laney> Didn't someone add pbuilder --build-twice or something not too long ago?
<DRebellion> Laney, Hobbsee, `man pbuilder': " --twice is for --build option It builds the package twice in a row to check for possible clean issues. It will generate the .deb of the second build."
<DRebellion> that's it
<DRebellion> : )
<Hobbsee> oh, there you are, then.
<Laney> excellent
<Laney> DRebellion: hugs to nxvl for that feature ;)
<slytherin> NCommander: I see you updated jedit in jaunty. Do you have any plan to port the package to Debian?
<NCommander> slytherin, once I'm a DD, and Debian is out of freeze, I plan to move all 0ubuntuX packages I can if possible ;-)
<sebner> NCommander: DD, big plans. :P
<NCommander> sebner, I'm through AM with a +1 from my sponsor
<sebner> NCommander: AM? I only know DM
<NCommander> It means my application manager has +1ed me
<NCommander> I'm waiting on the buracat parts of the system
<directhex> debianization is a loing scary process
<directhex> i'm fine with just firing things though a sponsor ;)
<sebner> NCommander: O_o I'm impressed even more about you
<sebner> directhex: hi btw =)
<DktrKranz> sebner, get MOTUship first
<directhex> mornin'
<sebner> DktrKranz: /me isn't even NM :P
 * NCommander was wondering if I would be a DD before MOTU
<NCommander> Context: my DD application is eight months old
<DktrKranz> NCommander, anu progress so far in your NM?
<DktrKranz> you're almost there ;)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, Final FD approval, DAM approval
<DktrKranz> cool
<NCommander> so about another four months ;-)
<DktrKranz> so, I guess who I should bother for Debian stuff :D
<NCommander> I'll find another transition in Hardy that needs doing!
<DktrKranz> please!
 * NCommander starts looking
 * DktrKranz is thinking to upload crap just to ignite NCommander 
<wgrant> He's too insane; he won't burn well.
<NCommander> No, I'm a firefighter
<NCommander> I self-extinish
<DktrKranz> autocombustion
<DktrKranz> cool
 * NCommander notes that every firefighter has a pyro inside wanting to get out
 * NCommander thus dons a flamethrower
 * NCommander reduces DktrKranz into Italian sausage that is flame broiled
 * DktrKranz likes it
 * NCommander feeds DktrKranz to the dog
 * DktrKranz doesn't like it
<DktrKranz> not for me, it's your dog who will need medical care
<NCommander> I doubt you'd even give my dog gas, let alone indigestion
<Hobbsee> depends if he implodes the dog.
<NCommander> I have phoenix downs handy
<NCommander> and an ample supply of duct tape, and superglue
<sebner> another DD to annoy. that will be fun =)
 * NCommander aims his flamethrower at sebner 
<slytherin> NCommander: the freeze does not stop you from putting it in unstable.
<sebner> NCommander: upload all the stuff from Debian mentors which is made by ubuntu folks! :P
<NCommander> Most people, myself included don't upload to sid during freezes
<NCommander> Since then we have to use tpu to fix lenny if necessary
<slytherin> NCommander: anyway, the reason I asked the question is do you have any plan at all to get the package in Debian. If not I will try to put it in pkg-java svn
<NCommander> Not at this time
<NCommander> I am not a DD, and likely another month before that happens
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I think it doesn't apply for NEW packages, since it won't part of Lenny anyway
<sebner> NCommander: what's the way until beeing a DD. in other words, how many years of hard work?
<NCommander> I got sponsored within a month of working on the m68k team
<NCommander> Sponsorship via a team is the fastest way
<NCommander> (or portering team in this case)
<NCommander> The rest is waiting
<NCommander> Lots and lots and lots of waiting
<sebner> O_o
 * NCommander was active in Debian for a year and a half before applying
<sebner> DktrKranz: become part of a team!
<NCommander> THe hard part is meeting the GPG key signing requirement
<sebner> NCommander: kay, thx
<DktrKranz> sebner, that's the problem, I haven't a specific interest
<sebner> DktrKranz: so you'll join everywhere?
<DktrKranz> or nowher
<DktrKranz> *nowere
 * DktrKranz can't type today
<sebner> hrhr
<DktrKranz> NCommander, did you find troubles in that? My area is widely populated by DDs, so no big issue :)
 * Yagisan hasn't found GPG key signing to be hard
<NCommander> DktrKranz, for someone who lives in NYC, yes I did
<Yagisan> granted - you may need to lay a trap and hold the dd in a net to get it signed - but still ...
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> That's what I did
<DRebellion> Does anybody know how to do a newline (\n) in a manpage?
<DktrKranz> NYC lacks DDs
<DktrKranz> curious
<DRebellion> The .PP macro does a new paragraph, but I want to only make a list, with no blank lines in between.
<Yagisan> odd - I've met DD's from NYC
 * NCommander has too
<NCommander> Yagisan, where are you from?
<Yagisan> Sydney
<Yagisan> <- Not a DD. Just lurks here on occasion
<StevenK> Yeah, I don't think NYC lacks DDs
<StevenK> I think there's five or six
<Yagisan> Hi StevenK
 * StevenK waves
<Yagisan> long time no see
<StevenK> Yagisan: Indeed. How are you?
<Yagisan> I can't say in a G rated channel :/
<Yagisan> but lets just say yesterdays final uni exam results where not expected
<StevenK> Wonderful :-/
<Yagisan> well - it cost me an employment opportunity
<Yagisan> I've been told to re-sit them in feb
<StevenK> That's even worse
<Yagisan> oh well - I've another one I interviewed for - lets see if I get an offer for that
<StevenK> Yagisan: I moved employers, too
<Yagisan> where to now StevenK ?
<slytherin> Yagisan: and when university exams were ever as expected?
<StevenK> Yagisan: Canonical :-)
<slytherin> I mean results
<Yagisan> StevenK, nice :D
<Yagisan> slytherin, I expect a pass or fail
<Yagisan> slytherin, I got two credits and a big fat - dude - you need to resit this exam O-o
<slytherin> Yagisan: ahh, reappearing is nightmare.
<Yagisan> no - explaining it to Mrs Yagisan is the real nightmare
<slytherin> :-P
<Yagisan> well - it's been 6 years since I promised to take her home
<Yagisan> and no degree == no work for me in her country == unhappy wife
<DktrKranz> what the heck! ... does anybody know why vmware decided to switch keyboard layout to something unknown? Or better... how to fix it
<slytherin> in my country marriage usually happens 6 years of after having a degree. :-)
<Yagisan> StevenK, one nice thing about the other job I interviewed for - is most of the workstations are kubuntu boxes
<NCommander> slytherin, you from germany?
<slytherin> NCommander: nah, India
 * NCommander knows in Germany it takes a long time to get a degree
<sebner> NCommander: where are you from btw?
<Yagisan> slytherin, I apparently am doing this backwards ;) marriage -> high school -> kids-> tertiary education
<slytherin> NCommander: I didn't say it takes long time to get degree. I said it takes long time to get married. :-)
<NCommander> sebner, Rochester, NY
<NCommander> slytherin, elope
<sebner> DktrKranz: keyboard isn't working in vmware. true =)
<NCommander> *is gunned down*
<sebner> NCommander: ah, k
<DktrKranz> sebner, I noticed...
 * Yagisan hugs kvm ...
<sebner> DktrKranz: maybe it's fixed with version 2?
<DktrKranz> I have workstation 6.5
<sebner> ah
 * sebner server 1.0.7
<DktrKranz> funny part I can't find no option to configure it
<sebner> DktrKranz: /me thinks itS' b0rken
<Yagisan> DktrKranz, last time I used it - vmare seemed to need an "export LANG=C" before starting it before it would be happy.
 * Yagisan wishes his xubuntu torrent would hurry up
<DktrKranz> Yagisan, 6.0.x worked, I'll try your method
<NCommander> YAY, xubuntu user!
 * Yagisan uses all of them - depending on system
 * Yagisan has almost finished getting all license issues sorted out with his deng package. Almost ready to send it to revu (it's taken 3 years!!! so far to fix licensing on it)
<Yagisan> yay - torrent done
<DktrKranz> mh, export LANG didn't help
<Yagisan> DktrKranz, is it not recognising keypresses at all ?
<DktrKranz> well, some keys are correct
<Yagisan> maybe it wants a US keymap
<DktrKranz> but if I press arrows, they've been mapped as CTRL-(something) keys
<DktrKranz> right arrow is now CTRL+C, it broke my download
<Yagisan> DktrKranz, checked the vmware forums ?
<DktrKranz> I was planning to do it
<DktrKranz> since I can't find any rationale behind this
<Yagisan> google suggests vmware is to blame. pm'd you a link DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> thanks
 * Yagisan -> off to install xubuntu
<nhandler> I'm working on a merge, and I am a little unclear about one of the old Ubuntu changes. The change removed dpkg-distaddfile from debian/rules so that "the package gets uploaded properly". From the man page, I saw that dpkg-distaddfiles adds the specified files to debian/files. However, I am not 100% clear about what this file is used for. Could someone either help clear this up or link me to some documentation about this?
<pochu> DktrKranz: sure, I'll look at it (gstreamer dvd playback)
<slytherin> pochu: which bug about gstreamer dvd playback are you talking about?
<pochu> where did he go? :)
 * iulian looks for dfiloni
<sebner> iulian: found :P
<iulian> I know I'm a psychic, sebner ;)
<iulian> dfiloni: Hey, do you work on mapnik merge?
<sebner> heh
<dfiloni> iulian: take it
<iulian> Thanks
<karooga> hi, if a package written by [1] is based a library written by [2] - does [2] become an 'Upstream Author' in copyright?
<karooga> the library src is distributed with the package btw.
<karooga> anyone around to answer some qs on copyright files?
<pochu> karooga: yes
<pochu> karooga: if those you asked before: no, using a Library doesn't make the library authors authors of your application
<pochu> karooga: and no need to list them in debian/copyright
<karooga> pochu: really?  coz in the COPYING file of orig source, the lib author is mentioned...
<pochu> karooga: furthermore, you are encouraged to get (if it's not already) the library in the archive, and use the library from the archive with your package, instead of the copy shipped with your tarball
<pochu> (if possible)
<pochu> karooga: perhaps I didn't understand it well... Is it an application which uses a library, and ships the library in its tarball?
<karooga> pochu: mmm... it would seem that the library has been granted special perms to be used for this application.  Lib author sells a $$ version.
<pochu> ah
<karooga> pochu:  python package which makes calls to the library.
<pochu> it would be interesting what terms are those... possibly they make the library non-free
<karooga> pochu: do you think I am barking up the wrong tree? :-)
<geser> karooga: can you pastebin the COPYING file from the lib?
<karooga> geser: sure http://paste.ubuntu.com/69227/
<karooga> geser: I've emailed the author of the library for confirmation of LGPL-3...
<geser> karooga: if you package both you should list both upstreams in the copyright file
<karooga> geser: you mean package both in the same package?
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi my new package is in pending : however it only appears to be in jaunty, I supplied diffs for the Hardy and Intrepid releases, will the get processed also?
<StevenHarperUK_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/
<iulian> Would anyone like to upload this patch - http://paste.ubuntu.com/69228/plain/ ?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Did you subscribe motu-sru to the bug?
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: no, I didnt know I had to
<ScottK> DktrKranz: If you're around, SRU processing assistance needed ^^^
<StevenHarperUK_> AcottK; Should I subscribe the bug now anyway? or is it too late?
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: * ^^
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Not to late.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: SRU has to happen after it's fixed in the development release anyway.
<StevenHarperUK_> Scottk: ok ill do that and posta  comment so they get it: will that be enough?
<cody-somerville> If I was to add support to dput to have a special URI for PPAs, would folks prefer lp:<ppa-id> or ppa:<ppa-id>?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: See wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for details on the process.
<pochu> cody-somerville: imho ppa:
<slytherin> cody-somerville: ppa:
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: thanks
<geser> karooga: at first yes, unless the lib is bigger and can be used by itself
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: I like the pending sru page very handy
<StevenHarperUK_> Scottk: I understand nearly all of that process - just this bit I dont fully get "pload the fixed package to release-proposed"
<superm1> cody-somerville, are you running into a situation that is pulling all of gnome into xfce jaunty disks?
<superm1> at least live disks
<karooga> geser: ok cool.  Re: the header of the licence in debian/copyright, do i understand that only upstream src should have the licence files and in the package i just include a link to /usr/share/common-licences?
<cody-somerville> superm1, I haven't had a chance to look at them yet. I'm in Lexington atm.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: You need a MOTU to do that for you.
<\sh> moins
<superm1> cody-somerville, well i suspect you will be affected by the same problem that i'm seeing when porting mythbuntu live disks to use livecd-rootfs
<superm1> cody-somerville, gdm depends upon: "gnome-session | xterm | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator,"
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: ok I seem to have done all of teh rest of teh process
<StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: Thanks for teh help
<superm1> which since the metapackages list xfce4-terminal "after" gdm cause a problem.
<superm1> it might be okay with tasks, but i dont know for sure
<slytherin> geser: Do you have some time to ack bug 295524?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295524 in imagej "Please sync imagej 1.41n-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295524
 * sebner winks \sh 
<\sh> hey sebner...:)
<\sh> sebner: up for some action? ,-)
<sebner> \sh: in what regard? :P
<\sh> sebner: new package ,-)
<sebner> \sh: so?
<\sh> sebner: this one: http://dojotoolkit.org/ ,-)
<\sh> sebner: we need it for zend-framework ,-)
<sebner> \sh: wth? XD
<sebner> \sh: btw, noticed my mail? you don't need to answer if you don't want of course =)
<\sh> sebner: I think I have a mail backlog since monday...which means more then 4k mails in my inbox...I'll deal with it next monday
<\sh> it's hard to concentrate when you have a forking woman at home
<sebner> \sh: don't worry. circumstances
<sebner> argh
<nixternal> forks are evil!
<sebner> xD
<nixternal> never fork a woman, they start to get buggy!
<\sh> nixternal: yeah...belly is really showing some strance behaviour
<\sh> strange even
<nixternal> oh, I must have read that wrong :P
<\sh> lol
<nixternal> to early to get jokes I guess
 * \sh needs to earn more money ... for sure
<\sh> nixternal: no..over the 3 M timeline
<geser> karooga: if the used license is included in /u/s/c-l/ than a reference in debian/copyright is enough (else you need to copy the whole license text into it)
<\sh> nixternal: please share with me: "what did you expect when I write about fork" ,-)
 * \sh needs more alc...
<geser> slytherin: ACKed, do I see it correct that imagej can be moved to universe after the sync?
<slytherin> geser: yes, I will file a separate bug for that.
<slytherin> geser: One merge coming your way if you are available for another hour.
<pochu> slytherin: we were talking about bug 260765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260765 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "DVD playback does not work anymore" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260765
<slytherin> pochu: I remember seeing another bug similar to what I faced few days ago. There are some assertion failure produced by libdvdnav which causes segfault. I don't remember the bug number.
<superm1> cody-somerville, okay well i'm going to do an upload of gdm without that explicit depend on gnome-session.  i think gdm should be fine without it since gnome-session is pulled in by metapackages for ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-desktop
 * cody-somerville nods.
<superm1> now i've just got to wait 4 more days for this build to actually happen so i can make sure the livefs looks right :)
<karooga> is license associated with packaging == license of program?
<superm1> karooga, not always, but it's generally easier to write debian/copyright when you use the same license
<karooga> thanks superm1
<slytherin> geser: bug #295539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295539 in libjogl-java "Please merge libjogl-java 1.1.1+dak1-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295539
<slytherin> does ubuntu wiki have any shortcut for launchpad bug urls?
<ScottK> Hobbsee, jdong, and wgrant: I was wrong.  It's not that a backports upload will close tasks against backports, it's that it'll close a task against Ubuntu.  See Bug #295621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295621 in launchpad "Uploads to -backports pockets should not auto close bugs except against the -backports project" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295621
<slytherin> why has this bug cropped up again?
<ScottK> You don't really want me to answer that.
<sebner> ScottK: is it possible to remove a package from every archive (jaunty -> dapper)?
<ScottK> sebner: No.
<sebner> ScottK: only jaunty, rigt?
<sebner> *right
<ScottK> Yes.
<sebner> ah true. You once told me. thx
<ScottK> I think in an extreme case (Like Canonical loses a lawsuit) it's possible, but not generally.
<slytherin> does anyone know if it is possible to share a dvd drive over firewire network?
<sebner> ScottK: would you mind take a look at bug #295623
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295623 in qmail "Please remove qmail from the archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295623
 * sebner is out for dinner
<ScottK> sebner: Why?
<hagabaka> why does the shoes package depend on rubygems? the library itself doesn't
<sebner> ScottK: because I was hungry? ^^
<ScottK> sebner: No, why dump qmail?  See my comment in the bug.
<sebner> ScottK: Ah. I'm really wondering since it's buildable in debian .. and do really so many people download our qmail source?
<ScottK> sebner: Qmail is a very unique package.  I don't know of any other open source program that has a strong following a decade after upstream abandoned it.
<ScottK> sebner: If it's buildable in Debian, make it buildable on Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Until recently you couldn't ship patched binaries, so source was all we could ship.
<sebner> ScottK: It was never in ubuntu so I think this task is too high for me (for now) ..., and besides .. that's the reason why I asked you to look at the bug ;)
<ScottK> OK.  Well I gave you an opinion.
<DktrKranz> wasn't qmail "you can modify it only if I gave you permission to do so" software?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: It was.  It's not any more.
<DktrKranz> great
<ScottK> Actually it was more like "You have to distribute it exactly the way I made it - ship patches separately."
<slytherin> how come such a package even entered in Debian?
<ScottK> slytherin: I think it was in non-free.
<slytherin> ahh
<DktrKranz>      qmail |    1.03-47 | unstable/non-free | source
<slytherin> is tomorrow the Debian RC day?
<ScottK> IIRC yes, but feel free to start early.
<sebner> ScottK: ok, so thx for you help
<ScottK> sebner: No problem.  If you were MOTU already would you have sent that bug to an archive-admin or would you still have asked?
<sebner> ScottK: I was pretty sure that the best is to remove it *but* as this was the very first removal bug I ever filed I would have ask also as a MOTU
<ScottK> sebner: OK.  Just so you know, if a MOTU sends a removal bug to the archive-admins they generally don't think about it very hard.  They assume the MOTU knows what they are talking about.
<sebner> ScottK: also, one thing that was interesting to me was that wikipedia says that qmail is still very popular in unix and linux so I was wondering and wouldn't have removed it
<ScottK> OK.
<sebner> ScottK: at least they would wonder if a MOTU sends a please remove Firefox3 or gnome stuff ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner, a removed package can be restored, but better double-check it before ;)
<sebner> ScottK: but again. thx. I'll be more carefully with that stuff in future (and I'm not saying that because you will comment on my MOTU application ;))
<sebner> DktrKranz: sure =). more money to pay you :P
 * DktrKranz never imagined to sponsor a fix from his "neighbour"
<ScottK> sebner: True.  Those are in Main and would need a core-dev.  I did howerver recently get firefox removed.
<sebner> ScottK: -2 is obsolete :)
<ScottK> Yep.
<DktrKranz> sebner, he asked to remove firefox-3, use midori instead ;)
<sebner> hihi
<sebner> DktrKranz: I'd rather say konquerer as he is a kde guy :P
<DktrKranz> lynx, so everyone's happy
<sebner> :D
<ScottK> I do mostly use Konqueror.  I mostly just use FF for sites that don't work with Konqueror.  Much as I used to do with IE.
<ScottK> Firefox - The new Internet Explorer.
<sebner> heh
<Laney> Can someone merge my LP branch into ubuntu-dev-tools? It's just adding jaunty to known releases in various scripts. bzr merge lp:~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev
<DktrKranz> Firefox - The browser formerly known as Internet Explorer
<DktrKranz> (as much as Prince)
<ScottK> Well I know how many security uploads FF has had and how many Konqueror has had.
<slytherin> is bug 262649 worth a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262649 in robocode "robocode depends directly on openjdk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262649
<iulian> DktrKranz: Hiya. Can I steal the node merge from you?
<DktrKranz> iulian, definitely ;)
<iulian> Cool, thanks.
<iulian> Errk!
<iulian> Too many OOPSES from launchpad today.
<cody-somerville> iulian, what number?
<iulian> I got a few numbers but lost them because I refreshed the page.
<iulian> I'll paste you the current one.
<iulian> cody-somerville: (Error ID: OOPS-1043ED80)
<iulian> cody-somerville: Just refreshed again: (Error ID: OOPS-1043EC65).
<iulian> If it helps, I can paste here more.
<iulian> By the way, this is when I try to file a bug.
<cody-somerville> iulian, against?
<iulian> cody-somerville: I only wrote the summary of the bug. I wanted to report against the node package.
<iulian> cody-somerville: After I clicked "Continue", it gave me those oopses.
<iulian> cody-somerville: It works now.
 * jdong muses over issuing "prevu prevu"
 * sebner never got prevu working :P
<jdong> sebner: what was wrong?
<sebner> jdong: it was preparing a jaunty chroot instead of intrepid
<jdong> sebner: DIST=intrepid sudo -E prevu-init?
<iulian> DktrKranz: Would you like to have a look at the node merge? It should be easy to review.
<sebner> jdong: ah no. I wanted a hardy environment ^^. well I changed my sources.list to hardy and run prevu-init like the wiki says (you really should update the wiki page)
<DktrKranz> iulian, I'm after a FTBFS, once I figured it out, I could give it a try
<iulian> DktrKranz: Sure, thanks a lot.
<jdong> sebner: yeah I need to update that a bit. Use the DIST env variable to affect what the target distro is, and remember -E to sudo so that it doesn't strip out the environment
 * sebner hugs jdong =)
<ScottK> sebner: It's a wiki.  Go for it.
<sebner> ScottK: heh, right. I'm just afraid that my english is more like opensource than freeware =)
<emgent> heya
<iulian> Hi emgent.
<slytherin> sebner: if it is opensource, someone will improve it. :-)
<sebner> slytherin: heh. I'm afraid that you are the only one who got that joke :P
 * slytherin proposes proper English communication as prerequisite for those who are applying for MOTU membership. :-P
<sebner> heh
<emgent> heya iulian
<geser> sebner: your English isn't that bad that it would be better you when you were writing in deutsch so people have a better chance to understand you :)
<sebner> geser: at least for non-germans :P
<sebner> though also there sometimes strange words appear ^^
<ScottK> Well maybe not even all Germans.
<sebner> ScottK: so?
<ScottK> When we had German students living here there were times when my wife (who speaks German) would have to translate among Germans from different parts of the country.
<slytherin> geser: can you please take a look at bug 262649 and see if it is worth a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262649 in robocode "robocode depends directly on openjdk" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262649
<sebner> ScottK: your are definately right with that ;)
<sebner> ScottK: your wife speaks german. COOL =)
<geser> I've seen a report on tv recently which had german subtitles for the spoken dialect
<sebner> geser: But I think only "KÃ¶lsch" is not understandable, right?
<geser> sebner: "SchwÃ¤bisch" or "Bayrisch" is also hard to understand
<geser> SÃ¤chsisch is also nice to hear :)
<sebner> geser: Bayrisch not for us Autrians :P
 * RainCT does not understand schwÃ¤bisch but was born there XD
<`Chris> Hello, currently I have started packaging this project. When it is finished, where do I go to upload it?
<geser> a friend of mine comes from Franken. When she uses frÃ¤nkisch I had to ask her several times what some words mean :)
<slytherin> `Chris: which project is it?
<sebner> tell Chris about revu
<sebner> !tell Chris about revu
<`Chris> qbittorrent
<sebner> !REVU | CarlFK
<RainCT> !revu | `Chris
<ubottu> CarlFK: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ubottu> `Chris: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<sebner> argh
<sebner> xD
<slytherin> whatever happened to limiting revu to UUCs only?
<ScottK> slytherin: It's been discsussed a bit.  That's it.
<geser> slytherin: how common is it that people don't have openjdk installed and only an other java-vm?
<RainCT> (btw, has anyone here used tbeta/mtmini/something like that?)
<`Chris> Should I get it from Debian or use the tar?
<`Chris> from the official site
<slytherin> geser: many people still prefer to use Sun JRE.
<CarlFK> huh? :)
<sebner> CarlFK: sry =)
<CarlFK> no prob - that's what I get for sleeping around in all these channels :)
<slytherin> `Chris: if debian has it, why are you packaging it?
<sebner> Chris: If it's in Debian it will be synced automatically to ubuntu. no need to package from scratch
<geser> slytherin: do those people also deinstall openjdk?
 * sebner is off for a while
<neurobuntu> what does: debian/rules:44: *** commands commence before first target.  Stop., mean?
 * iulian is looking for someone to upload this trivial patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69228/plain/
<jdong> sebner: per your request I just refreshed the prevu documentation :)
<geser> slytherin: if I understand the problem correctly, it's not about the use of an alternative java-vm but just the dependencies
 * sebner hugs jdong 
<`Chris> slytherin: I was following the MOTU videos, it is not yet in Ubuntu and I found it over in Debian. I thought it'd be nice to get it into Ubuntu too
<slytherin> geser: not likely. I use Sun JRE in office because I know everything java works with it. I don't have openjdk installed. At home I play around only with openjdk.
<slytherin> `Chris: it will automatically enter Ubuntu in this development cycle.
<slytherin> geser: yes, just the dependency.
<geser> slytherin: then I guess it's not worthy an SRU (IMHO), but you're free to talk to MOTU SRU about it
<`Chris> Oh, Debian developers stealing my fun
<geser> iulian: why are you bumping the compat level? any specific reason?
<CarlFK> `Chris: you have an odd idea of fun:)
<slytherin> geser: I should have noticed it when I was working on MoveToUniverse. I will talk with motu-sru.
<slytherin> `Chris: you want to have some fun. try fixing FTBFS with jboss packages. :-D
<geser> oh, this is really big fun :)
<`Chris> From jboss.org?
<slytherin> geser: by the way, did you see my debdiff for libjogl-java?
<geser> yes, I've it opened in my browser but didn't had time yet to look at it
<slytherin> `Chris: no, the packages are in Ubuntu. Just that they fail to build. Of course, if build failures can be fixed by updating them that will be great.
<slytherin> ok
<`Chris> I'll see if I can spend this hour on it then, I guess it's gonna be hard since you lot have put it off :p
<iulian> geser: Not really, no. Every package I maintain uses dh 7.
 * slytherin - it feels nice to know, that most programs quit with Ctrl + Q shortcut.
<geser> iulian: if there is no specific reason for those changes, then please don't do them as they increase the delta to Debian for no good reason and make backporting a little bit harder.
<iulian> geser: The package is not in Debian.
<geser> that's different then (I didn't check very closely)
<slytherin> geser: should we plan to kill Sun Java 5 in jaunty?
<slytherin> if the upstream tar ball contains documentation in PDF format (along with source in .sxw format) should the PDF documentation be removed while creating .orig.tar.gz?
<DktrKranz> iulian, I should have managed my FTBFS (finally!), which is bug #?
<DktrKranz> (node merge, I mean)
<iulian> DktrKranz: It's bug #295646
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295646 in node "Please merge node 0.3.2-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295646
<ScottK> slytherin: Why would you do that?
<slytherin> ScottK: I am just asking.
<geser> slytherin: don't change the .orig.tar.gz if it's not necessary (e.g. for DSFG freeness)
<ScottK> Ideally you should build the PDF from the provided source I guess.
<ScottK> But as geser says, no need to repack the tarball.
<slytherin> ScottK: that will anyway happen I guess when I run the doc target in ant build file.
<geser> slytherin: you can rm the pdf in the clean target if you want (but wouldn't that imply that you need to build-depend on openoffice to recreate it?)
<slytherin> geser: I will first check if the target creates PDF and how.
<DktrKranz> iulian, I'm not a supporter of bumping Standards-Version in Ubuntu, others could think about it differently. Also, libax25-dev change is useful just to have lintian happy.
<Elbrus> slytherin: I would be interested in how to do it, I could not get it to work
<iulian> DktrKranz: OK, I will attach a new debdiff in a moment.
<DktrKranz> anyway openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver change was controversial (I can't remember bug #'s, but some DDs were against this change)
<iulian> DktrKranz: Will remove that too.
<swegner> What's the proper format for a version string for packages uploaded to a PPA which don't have a native debian or ubuntu equivalent package?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Actually Ubuntu Policy explicitly says don't bump standards version.
<ScottK> iulian: ^^
<DktrKranz> iulian, well... that change can stay, I was curious to see that discussion, just to make sure it's a wanted change
<DktrKranz> not sure why it was introduced in Ubuntu some cycles ago
<iulian> ScottK: Oh, didn't know that, thanks.
<DktrKranz> but we carry it from there, and this will probably happen forever
<DktrKranz> ScottK, was it made policy? I wasn't aware of that
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.  We now have an ubuntu-policy (I think that's what it is called) package and it's in there.
<DktrKranz> here it is: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/debian-policy/ubuntu/revision/319
<iulian> DktrKranz: What about the debhelper version. Is it ok to bump it from 2 to 6? IMHO version 2 is too ancient.
<DktrKranz> I'd ask Debian to do so for us
<iulian> OK.
<DktrKranz> unless there are valid reasons to do so (e.g. FTBFS, uncompatibility, whatever)
<iulian> Right.
<DktrKranz> mh... ntp is broken again... why it tells me it's 18:33 UTC?
<DktrKranz> I lost half an hour!
<iulian> DktrKranz: This is it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69313/plain/
<jfcgauss_> how do i add packages to my launchpad PPA? how do i set my PPA (for instance i want to target hardy but i see apt sources.list entries:
<jfcgauss_> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jfcgauss/ubuntu jaunty main     under my PPA.
<iulian> DktrKranz: If needed I'll attach it to LP as well.
<iulian> DktrKranz: Attached it to launchpad.
<DktrKranz> iulian, done
<iulian> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot.
<emgent> someone know in what package is lzm2dir ?
<geser> jfcgauss_: have you read https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<bobbo> emgent: dpkg -S /path/to/lzm2dir should work
<geser> emgent: packages.u.c doesn't know that file
<emgent> geser: know..
<geser> emgent: are you sure it's packaged?
<emgent> geser: i think so
<emgent> bobbo: i dont have it installed.
<geser> hmm, packages.d.o doesn't know it either
<emgent> okkay i will investigate about it.
<geser> emgent: a quick google search found http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/how-do-i-decompress-lzm-files-586399/?s=b60963bc1eec224ba4954d26ad5c6aa9
<geser> emgent: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/alfredo/sagelivecd/sage_livecd/SAGE/tools/lzm2dir is that script
<emgent> yep saw that
<sebner> ember: thx for this comment! Did you just CC me or have did you forget to send it to the MC mailing list?
<emgent> but i thought that this file was packaged.
<emgent> also my email seems broken.. sebner you saw my email ?
<swegner> I have a small project that I've been maintaining in a PPA but I think I'd like to get it packaged for Ubuntu.  Am I better off going through the packaging process for Ubuntu, or try to package it for Debian?
<sebner> emgent: yep. and you once wrote stefar instead of stefan :P
<emgent> argh
<sebner> emgent: nvm, np
<Elbrus> swegner: the nicest is to try to get it into Debian
<Elbrus> but Ubuntu is usually slightly easier
<swegner> Elbrus: yeah, that's what I've generally gleaned from the wiki so far.  I think I'll probably try to go with Ubuntu,
<swegner> To follow up: I've been maintaining the debian/ directory inside the same source control as the project, simply because it's been convenient for me.  When it's packaged for Ubuntu, does the debian directory need to be specifically separate from the source?
<ScottK> It's easier for us if it's not included in the upstream tarball.
<swegner> Ok, so I'll split that off and start getting it ready for review
<swegner> Last question: I was getting pretty confused about the version numbering with upstream releases, etc.  If I'm getting a new package ready for Ubuntu and not Debian, should the changelog string
<swegner> {package-name} ({packageversion}-ubuntu1~ppa1) intrepid; urgency=low
<Elbrus> swegner: looks right to me
<Elbrus> but when uploading to REVU you want to remove the ~ppa1 part
<Adri2000> should be upstreamversion-0ubuntu1
<nhandler> swegner: You should also target 'jaunty' instead of 'intrepid'
 * Elbrus is keeping his mouth shut and hides under a stone
<swegner> alright great-- thanks everyone for their help!
<directhex> whatever happened to the monthly naked wallpaper of ye olde releases?
 * RainCT notes that it isn't actually that hard to get a package into Debian
 * directhex agrees with RainCT 
<nhandler> RainCT: Aren't they frozen for Lenny right now?
<RainCT> nhandler: yes, that will probably make it harder to get stuff sponsores right now
<ScottK> swegner: -0ubuntu1
<RainCT> nhandler: but I think stuff can still enter sid (but won't transition to lenny then), or else there's experimental anyway
<directhex> RainCT, the reverse - getting things in now is fairly easy, as they'll just be frozen in sid. they aren't gonna bother the release managers
<emgent> nice ubuntu alias seems broken
<emgent> someone can confirm it ?
<karooga> anyone using the "legal" section on revu?  Looks new and looks like I have a *lot* of errors...
<ScottK> karooga: It is new.  It's not meant to give you a definitive good/error result, but to tell you what to look at.
<karooga> ScottK: mmm... seems to insist that every src file has a copyright at the top...
<ScottK> karooga: That is how it is supposed to be.
<ScottK> Copyright and license (at least the header part).
<ScottK> karooga: Lack of it won't get the package rejected (you MUST have a full copy of the license in the upstream tarball), but it should be that way and it's worth asking upstream to fix.
<RainCT> karooga: that's just the output of  licensecheck -r --copyright
<karooga> ScottK: whew...  ok, I can check that off the list then.
<ScottK> karooga: Do ask upstream to fix it though.
<ScottK> RainCT: Cool.  It's getting used.
<karooga> thanks RainCT.
<RainCT> ScottK: :)
<karooga> ScottK: "Getting used"..???  I'm getting grey hairs.  As fast as I try to wrap this mickey mouse package up, revu keeps telling me there are more and more problems. :-P *sigh*
<RainCT> heh
<ScottK> karooga: You used the link to legal and asked about it about a day after RainCT put it up there, so that's good.
<karooga> Anyone familiar with python modules?
<ScottK> karooga: We're trying to reduce the number of problems with debian/copyright in submitted packages.
<ScottK> karooga: Yes.
<karooga> ScottK: got 5 minutes to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3880  ? PyEphem provides scientific-grade astronomical computations.
<sebner> RainCT:  Next REVU Day: TODAY (Friday, November 7th 2008)   <-- Is really somewhere still friday on earth?
<karooga> ScottK: only one day?  seriously?  Just my luck. :)
<ScottK> karooga: I'm looking.  REVU day is just a day we try to focus there.  It's not the only day we look at stuff.
<karooga> ScottK:  yeah, was referring to the legal link and my luck for picking today... hehe
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> Well the stuff it point out we'd have looked for anyway.  Just makes it more obvious to you.
<RainCT> sebner: Nop, thanks for noticing this :P. REVU should show the correct date within the next minutes.. :)
<sebner> kay :)
<RainCT> (it takes the date from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextREVUDay, btw)
<ScottK> karooga: Looking at your .diff.gz it looks good.  Does the package build correctly?
<karooga> ScottK: there were two warnings re: orig-maintainer + Python-version using pbuilder.  I'm still running hardy... dunno if that makes a difference?
<sebner> RainCT: if Friday remains you could leave "Friday" but fetch the time from a time server and then make if(time > timeatanyplaceonearth) ...
<ScottK> karooga: Those are normal.  Is your pbuilder set up for Jaunty?
<nhandler> RainCT: You could also set up a cron script to run editmoin
<karooga> ScottK:  I have ln -s to intrepid, which is ln -s to hardy?
<RainCT> sebner: I'd still have to update the wiki then (and would probably forget it :P)
<RainCT> but nhandler's suggestion could work..
<karooga> ScottK: all ready to backport you see.
<sebner> heh
<ScottK> karooga: Yes. and you can do the same for Jaunty or just update from hardy-backports.
<karooga> ScottK: do you mean backports will fix the pbuilder scripts for jaunty? or that I need hardy-backports to dev backports?
<ScottK> The updated debootstrap that has jaunty defined in it as well as an updated devscripts where dch defaults to jaunty (and the current lintian) can all be installed from hardy-backports.
<karooga> ScottK: great.
<ScottK> There is also an updated pbuilder package there, but that's not essential.
<karooga> are there any tricks to handling multiple versions of the same program? e.g. [x] package for hardy, [x] package for jaunty etc?
<ScottK> karooga: Bad news.
<karooga> ScottK: hit me
<ScottK> karooga: Look at the license statement in precess.c in libastro.
<ScottK> karooga: "can't be sold" means the package will have to go into multiverse, not universe.  Not the end of the world, but you need to cover that license in debian/copyright.
<ScottK> karooga: Also earthsat.c is copyright somebody else with no license statement.  As is, it's not distributable (that is a showstopper).
<karooga> ScottK: you used legal didnt' you?
<ScottK> karooga: No.  I used 'grep -ir copyright *'.
<karooga> ScottK: ok, I missed that.  So would the next step be to try get upstream to include it?
<ScottK> karooga: The legal stuff is often the hardest (and most important) to get right.
<karooga> ScottK: line 10 copyright, is the showstopper?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> karooga: I see there is a google Code project for libastro.
<ScottK> I'd suggest looking there and see if it's the same libastro.
<ScottK> If it is, then perhaps it has license terms that are usable and we can remove the embedded copy.
<ScottK> Unfortunately their svn is empty.
<karooga> ScottK: I see that.
<ScottK> karooga: So now it's a bit of a detecitve game then.
<ScottK> The pyephem people no doubt grabbed libastro from somewhere and embedded a copy
<karooga> ScottK: so all I'm trying to determine is, what licence applies specifically for that file?
<ScottK> More generally with libastro.
<ScottK> That's one spot that's very clearly problematic, but it's equally clear that the pyephem people didn't write libastro.
<ScottK> So my advice is go hunt for the true source for libastro and see about how that's licensed.
<karooga> ScottK: actually no they were 'given' permission to use it.  I confirmed this with libastro upstream that it was LGPL-3 earlier today.
<ScottK> If it's distributable, then package that and dump the pyephem embedded copy.
<ScottK> karooga: OK.  Can you package libastro from upstream then?
<ScottK> karooga: Technically I think the package is fine with the exception of breaking libastro out into a separate binary package so others can use it (regardless of which place you get the source from) would be goo.
<karooga> ScottK: am not sure.  As I understand the library comes from another program xephem... let me check xephems src
<ScottK> OK.
<karooga> ScottK: do you have library packaging experience (and patience)? :-)
<ScottK> karooga: Some.  I need to leave shortly.  We do have some good docs on it.
<karooga> ScottK: thanks you've been most helpful.  I need to go too.  Will check out in the morning.
<ScottK> karooga: stefanlsd is decent with library packaging and sistpoty is our real expert.  Neither are here at the moment.
<karooga> ScottK: great.  Thanks, I see what other details I can get regarding the source and take it from there.
<gouki> I'm creating a man pages, following this (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages) template but I have a few questions.
<gouki> What is =over 8? Or what does it do?
<RainCT> gouki: uhm not sure, try if it works without that
<gouki> RainCT, OK. How can I test the manual?
<RainCT> pod2man --section=1 --release=$(VERSION) --center "" debian/myapp.pod > myapp.1
<Elbrus> gouki: I assume (not tested) that it is indenting?
<RainCT> gouki: where debian/myapp.pod is the name of the file
<gouki> Elbrus, hmm, not sure. I'll test it.
<gouki> RainCT, doesn't that require me to install the package to test it?
<RainCT> gouki: you only need perl for that
 * RainCT is who has written the documentation for POD but is not sure what the "=over 8" is doing there :P
<gouki> :)
<gouki> RainCT, converting to HTML gave me a really good preview of how things are coming out :)
<gouki> Now, after having the man page created, what do I need to add to debian/rules to include it on the package (or for it o be installed when  the package is installed).
<RainCT> gouki: I think the wiki explains this too
<RainCT> but basically just tell dh_installmanpages to take care of it
<gouki> RainCT, the example on the wiki is for DCBS, I believe.
<gouki> Ok, cool. Thanks RainCT .
<murdok> hello. I'm trying to create a patch. It simply adds a file to /etc/sysctl.d. The problem is that this file should be removed once you remove the package, and instead, it's kept until I do remove --purge package
<murdok> How do I do this file to be automatically removed?
<RainCT> murdok: you could do it with a postrm, but I'm not sure if you actually want to do this :P
<murdok> Yes i have thought about postrm
<murdok> but I think it's a ugly solution
<murdok> I have tried to find the code that says all the other files to be removed but i have not found it
<RainCT> murdok: stuff in /etc is only supposed to be removed when a package is purged
<murdok> really?? uhm
<murdok> wait i'll try something
<bdrung_> can someone from ubuntu-universe-sponsors have a look at bug #244613? i have created a patch for jaunty and one for intrepid-proposed last week, but i got no response.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244613 in apt-mirror "[intrepid alpha1] apt-mirror gives error "closedir() attempted on invalid dirhandle DIR at /usr/bin/apt-mirror line 537."" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244613
<murdok> RainCT: may be related to *.spec.in files? what are they for?
<RainCT> murdok: I've never heard about them before :P
<jmarsden> Is there a lintian that doesn't complain about jaunty yet?  If so, how can I install it under Intrepid (x86) ?
<murdok> I have not found them in the wiki neither hehe :?
<jmarsden> murdok: Files with a .in suffix are usually input files for autotools, I think?
<murdok> jmarsden: I also think so but I don't know what are they exactly
<jmarsden> RainCT: Your idea of #include <cstdlib> worked for koverartist, BTW -- now I just need a development env. for janty so I can rebuild stuff "properly"...
<RainCT> jmarsden: great :)
<RainCT> jmarsden: there shouldn't be any problem if you test it in intrepid, btw
<jmarsden> RainCT: OK.  It builds fine under Intrepid locally and in an Intrepid pbuilder, so that's looking good.
<RainCT> jmarsden: alright, create a debdiff and I'll look at it tomorrow or Monday
<jmarsden> Cool, will do.
 * RainCT grumbles about the fact that it's easier to create a multi-touch pad than to get a webcam working :P
<gouki> RainCT, about pod2man, is this the correct command? pod2man --section=1 --release=$(VERSION) --center "" debian/myapp.pod > myapp.1
<gouki> It's failing because of $(VERSION)
<RainCT> gouki: yes, but replace myapp with the name of the executable
<gouki> yeah
<RainCT> gouki: and if it is a game/library/something you'll have to change the section
<gouki> Yeah, it happens to be a game.
<RainCT> gouki: OK, the section should be 6 then
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-09
<gouki> It gave me VERSION: command not found
<gouki> I should just ignore that, since the file is being created?
<RainCT> gouki: ah, replace that with the version of the package
<RainCT> gouki: or declare a VERSION variable
<gouki> OK, thank you, RainCT.
<gouki> dh_installman debian/file.1 doesn't give any output. Any way I can confirm things worked out?
<gouki> ls
<RainCT> gouki: is the manpage called file.1?
<gouki> RainCT, actually, banihstypos.1 is the name of the file generated by pod2man.
<RainCT> gouki: then write that name (and it should be .6)
<gouki> RainCT, ohh, got it. I changed on --section=6 when convertin to man but had the output file still with .1. Changed now.
<murdok> I have created a postrm file so that the file that I want is removed after removing the package, however that file is still shown when I do 'dpkg -L package'. Any idea of why is it?
<RainCT> murdok: why do you want to remove the file?
<murdok> it's a conf file under /etc/sysctl.d
<murdok> that is only needed by that package (dosemu and wine for example)
<RainCT> murdok: ah, right. if there's some other package that does the same you could check how they do it there
<murdok> wine doesn't remove it unless you purge the package
<murdok> neither
<murdok> arf!
<azeem> isn't that how it should be?
<murdok> i want it to be removed without need of --purge
<azeem> why?
<murdok> some people consider it a security risk
<murdok> it's bug 216398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216398 in dosemu "default mmap_min_addr breaks dosemu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216398
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, November 14th 12:00 UTC
<persia> RainCT, If you're running REVU days on Fridays, please add it to the topic when Friday starts UTC+14 and remove it when Friday ends UTC-13:30 (unless you find more timezones)
<RainCT> persia: okay, will do
<nhandler> RainCT: Could you also consider sending out a reminder email (similar to what they do for the hug days)? That way, all of the MOTUs will be reminded about the hug day
<RainCT> nhandler: Yep. I didn't do it last time because I had already mentioned in the discussion about cleaning up REVU /and I didn't remember until REVU Day  had already started :P), but will do for the next ones
<nhandler> Thanks a lot RainCT. I forgot about the REVU day until early evening (local time). As a result, I couldn't review as many packages as I would have liked
<RainCT> nhandler: well, you can also REVU packages when it isn't REVU Day :)
<RainCT> good night
<murdok> night RainCT
<gouki> nhandler, I'm working on the package now. I added Perl because of the reference to manual pages on the PackagingGuide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages
<gouki> As for the comments, I'll post the output when I remove the header.
<gouki> nhandler, http://paste.ubuntu.com/69413
<gouki> That's what happens when I remove the comments (header) from debian/rules. If I don't, the package source files are built correctly. :S
<persia> gouki, Please paste the result of having removed them.  I suspect you've removed some required blank lines.
<gouki> persia, that's what I wanted to ask. blank lines matter in debian/rules?
<persia> gouki, Yep.  debian/rules is a makefile.  See http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/
<gouki> Can I output the content of vimdiff between the two files?
<persia> You probably just want to use diff for that.
<persia> Anyway, the diff probably isn't useful to people other than you.  Anyone looking for a parse error probably wants to see the result file.
<gouki> diff, http://paste.ubuntu.com/69415
<gouki> Ohh, OK.
<gouki> So what can I paste so you guys can help me troubleshoot this?
<gouki> Found it!! :S
<gouki> persia, I believe it's OK now (lintian clean and builds on pbuilder): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
<gouki> If anyone could take a look at it, I'd really appreciate it.
<jmarsden> What does it really mean when a PPA upload fails and the email says "Rejected: Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any" ?
 * gouki would like to know too
<jmarsden> gouki: Looks like PPAs do not support Jaunty yet.
<gouki> Ohh, could be that indeed. Thanks for the heads up, jmarsden.
<jmarsden> Sure, but I can't take the credit -- Hobsee just helped me out on #launchpad :-)
<gouki> Thanks Hobbsee :P
<nhandler> Could someone help me get loadlin to build? Here is the error portion of the pbuilder build log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69444/. And here is pgadjust.c: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69445/.
<jmarsden> nhandler: loadlin builds for me here under Intrepid... I can do:   d=`date +%s` && mkdir /tmp/$d && cd /tmp/$d && apt-get source loadlin && cd loadlin-1.6c.really1.6c && debuild -us -uc && ls -ltr ..
<jmarsden> nhandler: Looks like it builds fine to me... are you compiling a changed/newer version than this?
<ethana2> Ok, the guy who was helping me a few days back doesn't seem to have been online...
<ethana2> ..I'm going to upload my pgp key to launchpad..
<ethana2> then get this stellarium package ready..
<ethana2> ..and then pbuild it
<ethana2> I may need some help, I may need an upload sponsorship
<jmarsden> ethana2: Go for it :-)  I'm not a MOTU, but I'm here, I'll help you out if I can...
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> It may take a bit, I deleted all the files I made earlier know that I kind of know what I'm doing..
<ethana2> to clean things up and whatnot
<ethana2> I'll mainly need to be reminded of various commands
<jmarsden> ethana2: Usually better to mv your working directory out of the way, instead of deleting your work... but OK
<ethana2> Well I had made a complicated mess out of things with my incompetence
<jmarsden> ethana2: BTW you can use the history command to see what commands you already used... might help.  Combind with grep that can be a good way to remind yourself of comamnds...
<gouki> ethana2, yeah, if I can help I'd also be happy to.
<ethana2> oh hey, gouki
<gouki> ;)
<ethana2> heh, Soyuz software.  I am amused
<ethana2> Ok, I'm getting very confused by the pgp key upload process
<gouki> ethana2, have you generated them (key pair) on your local machine?
<ethana2> yes
<gouki> Have you uploaded it to a key server? MIT and/or Ubuntu PKS?
<ethana2> that's what I'm trying to figure out how to do
<gouki> You can do that by using this web-interface: http://pgp.mit.edu/
<ethana2> So...  MIT is like..
<ethana2> some kind of centralized key repository?
<gouki> To make it easier, you can use Applications - Accessories - Password and Encryption Keys and export your public key. Then copy-paste it into MIT PKS.
<ethana2> the all want ascii-armored something or other, i don't know what they're talking about
<ethana2> ah
<gouki> Yes, MIT has a 'database' for keys.
<gouki> It's a very known PKS (Public Key Server).
<ethana2> ..and Canonical can make use of them?
<ethana2> k
<wgrant> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key yourkeyidhere
<gouki> Ubuntu itself has one.
<ethana2> ah, wgrant, that was the approach i was trying to figure out
<ethana2> I'll just do that
<gouki> Yes ... After putting it on MIT the keys will replicate to other PKSs
<ethana2> ok, sent
<ethana2> how do i know whether it's a success?
<gouki> Search for your name on it.
<ethana2> k
<gouki> ethana2, http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371
<ethana2> So I guess it's good now..
<ethana2> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=Ethan&op=vindex
<gouki> Well, it's there: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC5C149B0A666B913
<gouki> That's your public key block
<gouki> That's what people use when they want to encrypt something and send it your way
<gouki> Do the instructions on LP make more sense now?
<ethana2> ...they're still confusing
<ethana2> I think people use this stuff for a lot more than I'm out to do
<gouki> Can/Should be used for email, for example (besides the digital signatures used on packages).
<ethana2> I wish Ubuntu was more heavily integrated with launchpad..
<ethana2> I'd like to be able to enter my launchpad account info during the install process and have it pull my gconf and apt list from canonical servers..
<ethana2> install my usual packages and settings, maybe a few files
<ethana2> ok, well, now that that's evidently done
<ethana2> time to prepare this package
<ethana2> stellarium (0.10.0) jaunty; urgency=low
<ethana2>   * New upstream version http://stellarium.org/features_in_0.10.0.php
<ethana2>  -- Ethan Anderson <ethana2@gmail.com>  Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:27:19 -0600
<ethana2> Is that valid?
 * ethana2 changes 'version' to 'release'
<jmarsden> Looks sane to me.  Not sure it really needs the URL in the changelog.  Does your updated package build cleanly and lintian finds no issues?
<gouki> ethana2, file a bug on Launchpad. Similar to an ITP from Debian.
<ethana2> I haven't built the package this time yet
<ethana2> gouki: I will, Debian already has a bug filed for this
<gouki> ethana2, you may find this useful too: http://goukihq.org/misc/bookmarks/insipid.cgi?tag=motu
<ethana2> ...I'll also have a package ready
<gouki> Example of bugs: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<ethana2> Actually, here's some things I wonder about
<ethana2> Stellarium links against like three libs it doesn't use
<ethana2> Should I unlink them, or not worry about it?
<ethana2> Also, can I assume that the default makefile shipped with the source tarball has all the right flags?
<gouki> What do you mean with links against?
<jmarsden> ethana2: What does the previous package do?
<ethana2> Like, will it make for binaries that are performant enough?
<ethana2> jmsarden: what do you mean?
<jmarsden> ethana2: You are upgrading a previous Ubuntu package for stellarium, right??
<ethana2> gouki: the compiler says (this thing is linked with libraries whose symbols it doesn't use at all)
<gouki> ethana2, don't assume. Try and install on a VM (for example) and see if it works. This way you'll also be able to find about needed dependencies (from make configure and make output).
<ethana2> yep
<ethana2> jmarsden: that is correct
<ethana2> gouki: i know it works, i've installed it
<ethana2> gouki: what i don't know is if it gives gcc the parameters for highly optimized binaries
<jmarsden> ethana2: So did the packager of that earlier version do special things wrt those libraries, or not?  Same regarding performance...
<ethana2> Hmm..  not sue
<ethana2> sure**
<jmarsden> ethana2: I'd suggest getting it working first, then checking performance/removing unnneeded libs etc..
<ethana2> Well yeah, I've gotten it working
<ethana2> ...so once I build it next time I'll hunt down the unneeded linked libs and take 'em out..
<jmarsden> ethana2: OK, so package it and upload a working package to your PPA, so others can see and test that package...
<ethana2> yep
<ethana2> will do
<ethana2> I don't have a PPA yet, but I'll figure that out also
<gouki> ethana2, or to REVU.
<jmarsden> gouki: No, REVU is for new packages not updates to existing ones... AFAIK anyway.
<gouki> jmarsden, ohh, OK!
<ScottK> jmarsden: That's correct.
<gouki> ethana2, PPA still doesn't build packages for Jaunty, so you'd have to wait, I BELIEVE-
<ethana2> so, REVU then
<ethana2> but the intrepid version should work fine on jaunty
<jmarsden> gouki: True, except that you can just create one with jaunty replaced by intrepid in the changelog and it works fine...
<gouki> jmarsden, indeed!! :)
<ethana2> oh, did i..
<ethana2> ohhhh, whoops..  i'll change that now
<ethana2> stellarium (0.10.0) intrepid; urgency=low
<gouki> You need to change that version number.
<jmarsden> ethana2: I'd suggest you test locally with it set for jaunty, and use a jaunty pbuilder.  Then when you know all is well, change that word and make the version 0.10.0~ethana2 and then upload that one to your PPA
<gouki> If it was a new package in ubuntu, it would be 0.10.0-0ubuntu1. Since this is an update to an existing package, I don't know how.
<ethana2> It didn't have 'ubuntu's in the versions, I don't know why not
<gouki> ethana2, I've been taking some notes, that you may find useful: http://goukihq.org/misc/motu/notes/
<ethana2> ah, thank you
<ethana2> stellarium (0.10.0~ethana2) jaunty; urgency=low
<jmarsden> ethana2: Because stellarium was packaged for Debian.  In fact, you might want to just ask CÃ©dric Delfosse if he plans to package 0.10.0 for Debian soon, rather than diverge things bewteen Debian and Ubuntu packages of stellarium?
<ethana2> perhaps, but I was also wanting to get a bit of packaging experience
<ScottK> Even better offer him help.
<ethana2> ah, that sounds good
<ScottK> ethana2: If you want to get some experience there are currently 82 open bugs in Ubuntu tagged 'bitesize'.  Have a look at some of those and try to tackle one.
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> Well what I'm always running into
<ScottK> I'm not sure I agree all of them actually are bitesize, but it's a good place to look.
<ethana2> is apps where I can only get source code
<ethana2> and I'm sick of not knowing how on earth to install them cleanly
<ethana2> evidently checkinstall is the Wrong Way to do it
<ScottK> Generally yes.
<ethana2> That's kind of what I'm going after at this point
<ScottK> OK.  Well learning about packaging and the right way to do it via working on fixing bugs is one way to get there.
<ScottK> The problem with packaging new stuff is you really need to know about all aspects of packaging to do it well.
<gouki> If anyone could give this another review I would appreciate it. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
 * ethana2 has contacted cedric
<ethana2> Ok, I've got the source in what I think is buildable shape..
<ethana2> debuild...
 * ethana2 looks at gouki's notes
<ethana2> ....not seeing it
<ethana2>   205  debuild -sa -S
<ethana2> that's handy
<ethana2> .....one more privacy concern
<gouki> nxvl, waiting for your comments about http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
<nxvl> gouki: nice quote!
<nxvl> :P
<gouki> LOL!
<gouki> That quote is everywhere now! LOL
<nxvl> gouki: yeah, i'm at the airport right now i will check it in the plane
<nxvl> :D
<ethana2> ohhh, it /does/ need commas
<emgent> nxvl!
<nxvl> emgent: hi!
<ScottK> emgent: You know your post to planet is going to be controversial, right?
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> ScottK: i was thinking on the same
<ethana2> E: stellarium_0.10.0_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty
<ethana2> eh?
<nxvl> it will start a lot of problems
<ScottK> ethana2: You can ignore that
<ethana2> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> ethana2: Lintian hasn't been updated to know about jaunty yet.
<ethana2> what planet post are we talking about?
<ethana2> ScottK: ah
<nxvl> ethana2: that's normal, you are using the intrepid version of lintian, which doesn't know about jaunty still
<ethana2> yep
<ScottK> http://en.emanuele-gentili.com/index.php/2008/11/09/the-quote-of-the-day/
<nellery> yea that's probably not something that should be on planet...
<ScottK> nxvl: Actually the Jaunty version doesn't either.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yay for dev-tools
<ScottK> Well last I heard the change in the Lintian VCS repo, just not uploaded yet.
<ScottK> I did backport lintian 2.0 to hardy/intrepid though for people that want it.
 * jdong removes planet.u.c from his RSS feeds
<nxvl> yeah
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK for that
<emgent> ScottK: ?
<emgent> it`s a stupid-funny joke :)
<ScottK> Also debootstrap, devscripts (for dch), and pbuilder
<nxvl> emgent: some poeple will complain about your post saying "anal sex"
<emgent> ...
 * jdong thinks the nature of the content is inappropriate for the planet
<nxvl> emgent: that's how community works
<ScottK> emgent: It is, but there are also places in the world where people could get in real trouble just for reading such a thing.
<nxvl> emgent: see, there is the first complain ^^
<nxvl> or underage people reading planet
<emgent> okkay for skip it, i will obscure it.
<nxvl> like the (SOME_US) LoCo having problem with the police because a mom got scared
<jdong> for me this is the last straw in a series of bad-taste, off-topic, illegal, and/or unsafe content posted to the planet. and I am personally through with it
<ethana2> I also think it's inappropriate
<ScottK> emgent: I appreciate you doing that.
<ethana2> I don't personally object too much, but I think it falls in that category
<ScottK> jdong: He's agreed to deal with it when asked.  I think that's reasonable.
<nxvl> i ROLF reading it
<ethana2> k
<nxvl> :D
<jdong> ScottK: yeah, for this instance it is reasonable.
<ethana2> If he needs a replacement I can say something about lawyers and antiviruses
<jdong> I don't think it'll stop the "here you can torrent the latest iSight firmware blob stolen from OS X" links though.
<ethana2> jdong: that sounds helpful
 * ScottK didn't see that one.
<ethana2> you paid for it if you have one
<ethana2> Is it the only way to use mac webcams that you've bought?
<jdong> ethana2: no, you can... grab it from your OS X DVD or OS X partition
<nxvl> well, ilegal software copies are the worst enemy of free software
<ScottK> Here's one that's funny, but totally inappropriate for planet: http://xkcd.com/463/
<ethana2> same thing though...
<emgent> done, anyway i dont have nothing against anal sex with people with the same gender.. it was only funny quote :)
<jdong> ethana2: how is that the same thing at all?
<ethana2> same data
<nxvl> because people doesn't care about how much they need to pay for their software so they just don't look for alternatives
<nxvl> xkcd is awesome
 * nxvl buyed a hoody
<jdong> emgent: thanks for doing so -- I know there's a lot of readers of Planet who are pretty young and probably shouldn't be seeing content like that
<jdong> I really appreciate it
<ethana2> jdong: I don't want to be penalized for wiping my OSX install and snapping the DVD in half
<NCommander> wow, wait
<NCommander> anal sex?
<ethana2> If I own the hardware, I have a right to do what it takes to use it under what OS I will
<NCommander> what happened to family safe?
<ethana2> NCommander, don't worry it's being resolved
<jdong> ethana2: so that suddenly makes it okay to illegally distribute and obtain the firmware?
<ethana2> ubuntu should handle it for the user
<ethana2> like broadcom
<jdong> ethana2: agreed, that would be ideal
<ethana2> ....but I don't think Apple can be expected to be reasonable
<ethana2> so you do what you must
<jdong> ethana2: but an acceptable workaround in the meantime is *NOT* for posting mediafire links to the firmware
<jdong> that is illegal and it's unfortunate to see the community's blogosphere condoning such activity
<nxvl> gouki: i just got one lintian warning: binary without manpage which IIRC you are already solving, right?
<ethana2> jdong: illegal and wrong seem like they cannot be the same thing here
<gouki> nxvl, it is solved, I believe.
<ethana2> unless you ripped an iSight /out/ of a mac and slapped it into something else
<gouki> I created the man page for it, just not sure it's being correctly installed.
<jdong> ethana2: it doesn't matter whether or not you *OWN* an iSight, it is not legal to distribute its firmware. period.
<nxvl> also i'm finding something quite odd, there is nothing inside *bin/*
<ethana2> jdong: if you live in sweden?
<ethana2> oh wait, copyright, not patent
<nxvl> ScottK: is that ok for a binary to go to /usr/games instead of any bin/ ?
<jdong> ethana2: software licensing doesn't apply in Sweden?
<ethana2> jdong: I corrected my 'thinko'
<gouki> nxvl, I was told, by a lintian warning, that it should go to bin/ :S
<nxvl> oh yes, /usr/games is in the path
<ScottK> If it's a game, it has to go there.
<nxvl> is ok
<nxvl> nevermind
<gouki> OK
<gouki> nxvl, about the man page, well, the page is there, and I added what I believe is the correct way of installing it to debian/rules.
<ethana2> I didn't know Apple could prevent other OS'es from running on their hardware, it's like a game console or something
<ethana2> that's unfortunate
<ethana2> ...although most people using ubuntu on a mac will probably be dual booting
<nxvl> gouki: also i will change "Initial release" for "Initial Packaging"
 * ethana2 gets back to his .dsc stuff
<nxvl> or something like that
<nxvl> or packaged for ubuntu
<gouki> You will change it?
<ethana2> W: stellarium source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<ethana2> W: stellarium source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.10.0
<nxvl> i use to use "Initial packaging for $(Debian/Ubuntu)"
<jdong> ethana2: FWIW this problem will soon be moot -- the new iSights in latest-gen Apple hardware persistently remember their last-loaded firmware
<nxvl> gouki: no i won't touch it
<nxvl> :D
<jdong> ethana2: i.e. you just have to boot into OS X once and the firmware sticks
<ethana2> jdong: ah
<gouki> nxvl, oh OK. I'll change it then.
<nxvl> gouki: also you can get rid of the firsts lines on rules
<gouki> nxvl, I'm more worried about the manual page ... :S Can you check rules to see if that is the correct way of installing?
<ethana2> http://pastebin.com/d5fde89fa
<ethana2> Those are the errors and warnings lintian gives me at this point
<nxvl> gouki: the comment saying "This file is originaly, blah blah blah"
<nxvl> i think i have and old version
<nxvl> :D
<gouki> nxvl, that's not in there anymore:
<nxvl> yes i have
<gouki> hehe. yeah, yo do :)
<nxvl> \o/
<emgent> uhm my @ubuntu.com mail alias seems broken..
<emgent> someone can confirm it too ?
<gouki> I receive an email a couple of minutes ago ...
<nxvl> mine is working
<emgent> argh!
<nxvl> but i'm a Canonical guy so it doesn't applies
<gouki> Is it possible to delete a file from an upload? I accidentally included a non-needed file. In REVU, I mean.
<emgent> ScottK: your alias work ?
<nxvl> gouki: just upload it again
<ScottK> emgent: You mean Ubuntu mail address?
<gouki> nxvl, is there a way to download everything from an upload? I don't have the files on my HDD.
<ScottK> emgent: No idea.  I don't use it.
<nxvl> wow
<nxvl> i need to catch my flight in a bit
<nxvl> :S
<nxvl> i hate airports
<ScottK> gouki: Copy the link to the .dsc file and then dget -x path-to-file.dsc
<gouki> ScottK, thank you.
<nxvl> last cigar before my flight
<gouki> nxvl, you can smoke on that airport?
<gouki> Where are you?
<nxvl> at the smokers bar
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> in the peruvian airport
<gouki> ScottK, that didn't download the folder. Any work around?
<gouki> nxvl, sweet. Here in Portugal you can't smoke inside any building.
<nxvl> i always pay the expesive cokes for having a cigar before my flights
<nxvl> yeah, here too
<nxvl> actually in any part of the world
<nxvl> but there are always smoke bars or stuff with the right infrastructure
<nxvl> the funniest i've ever seen was in the Barahas airport in madrid
<ScottK> gouki: If you got the .dsc, .diff.gz, and orig.tar.gz then dpkg-source -x filename.dsc
<nxvl> those are funny
<nxvl> gouki: you can use dget -x for it to unpack everything automagically
<nxvl> i've it on my rc file
<gouki> Indeed! :S I forgot about that (read it on PackagingGuide).
<gouki> Thank you.
<nxvl> DGET_VERIFY=no
<nxvl> that's the magical line
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> inside ~/.devscripts
<gouki> So you recommend removing *Initial release (LP: #) and replace it with *Initial Ubuntu package (LP: #) ?
<nxvl> Initial packaging for ubuntu
<nxvl> but yes
<nxvl> that's the idea
<gouki> Changed.
<nxvl> k i will check that in Boston
<nxvl> my flight is already boarding
<nxvl> :S
<gouki> nxvl, lucky you!! :)
<gouki> Have a good flight!
<nxvl> read you later!
<ethana2> ...anyone care to help me knock out these lintian errors?   http://pastebin.com/d5fde89fa
<gouki> ethana2, use paste.ubuntu.com - It's easier on the eyes :)
<ethana2> ok
<gouki> The first one can be ignored, as a more recent version of lintian is jaunty-aware.
<gouki> Do you have the package somewhere?
<ethana2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69506/
<ethana2> What do you mean?
<ethana2> source tarball?
<gouki> Can we browse the files somewhere?
<ethana2> I don't quite get you....
<ethana2> the files are very easy to locate on stellarium.org
<ethana2> ..and I did an apt-get source for the current ubuntu version
<ethana2> and copied the /debian/ stuff over
<ethana2> ..and then started modifying it
<gouki> That's what I believe is required. The debian/ files.
<gouki> It would be good if it could go to REVU. Didn't know only new packages could go there.
<gouki> Maybe ScottK or persia have a workaround.
<ethana2> Well it's not up to par yet
<ethana2> until nothing throws any errors
<ethana2> from lintian to pbuilder
<ScottK> gouki: Generally it's for new packages, but if someone wants to review it and you've got no where else to put it, REVU is fine.  Just leave a comment saying people doing new package reviews should ignore it.
<gouki> ethana2, there! :) Thank you ScottK.
<gouki> Is there any other places to upload packages, besides PPA and REVU?
<gouki> Could be useful to have a unofficial place for this kind of thing.
<ScottK> I generally just put them on my web site.  Copy .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz to a folder on the web server and give people a link to the .dsc.
<ethana2> I'd rather not bother uploading until lintian is good with it, if possible
<ethana2> more changes to coordinate
<gouki> Would something like I mentioned have any interest to users? I would be happy to try and come up with something.
<ethana2> gouki: sure
<ethana2> collaborative packaging
<gouki> What do you think ScottK?
<gouki> ethana2, stellarium is pretty fun :)
<ScottK> I think occasional use of REVU is fine for such things.  I've never felt the need myself as I just copy/paste to my web site.
<ethana2> Did the errors I pasted require someone else to have direct access to the files?
<gouki> ethana2, no. For me, at least, I would have a better idea of what the errors mean, by looking at the actual files.
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> I can point you to them
<gouki> For experienced people, I don't believe it's crucial :)
<ethana2> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/stellarium/stellarium-0.10.0.tgz
<ethana2> and   apt-get source stellarium
<ethana2> I can make a .tgz of my modified /debian and give it to you via irc file transfer
<gouki> Use REVU, so others can have a look at it. I want to see in order to learn, as I'm not the best person to be fixing errors :)
<gouki> I'm the one complaining about them :P
 * ethana2 doesn't know how to use REVU yet
<gouki> ethana2, easy. Install dput. Add your GPG keys to Launchpad.
<gouki> Then configure dput, by using this note, for example: http://goukihq.org/misc/motu/notes/dput.txt
<gouki> Then just dput revu file_ending_with_changes.changes
<ScottK> Actually revu should be in the dput.cf already.
<gouki> ScottK, ohh, didn't know that. Cool.
<gouki> Then, just dput revu file.changes ethana2
 * ethana2 reads
 * ScottK heads to bed.
<ScottK> Good night everyone.
<ethana2> good night, don't explode
<ethana2> gouki: That .changes file doesn't look very helpful..
<ScottK> OK.  One more http://xkcd.com/293/
<ethana2> aaand I'm confused again
<ethana2> haha
<ethana2> dput revu stellarium_0.10.dsc
<ethana2> Should I do that?
<RAOF> Nope.
<ethana2> oh
 * ethana2 scratches head
<RAOF> At least, I'm pretty sure that'll give you an error. dput works on .changes files.  Do you have one?
<ethana2> yeah
<ethana2> does it use the changes file to grab other files?
<RAOF> Yes
<ethana2> ah.
<RAOF> The changes file has (a) links to all the files and (b) nice hashes of all the files.
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> neighbors secure wifi in 3...  2....
 * ethana2 shakes fist at 34 MB file
<RAOF> So, my buildbox went up in smoke on Thursday, and that was my screen+irssi+general webspace+whatever box.  Anyone have any recommendations as to virtual server host thingies?
<gouki> RAOF, thingies being providers of VPS?
<jmarsden> RAOF: I've used http://johncompanies.com/ for a few years, and like them...
<wgrant> RAOF: Lots of Ubuntu people use Linode.
<gouki> I'm quite happy with Slicehost.
 * RAOF looks up all of those.
<StevenK> Linode rocks
<StevenK> RAOF: ^
<RAOF> StevenK: I have heard good things about it, yes.
 * wgrant would have a Linode too if it weren't for the whole 17 and no credit card thing.
<ethana2> 17?
 * ethana2 should stop assuming everyone else is older than him
<wgrant> We've got people younger than me.
<NCommander> wgrant, your only 17?
<wgrant> NCommander: Yes...
 * jmarsden will continue to assume that most people on IRC are *younger* than him... :-)
<NCommander> jmarsden, how old are you?
<jmarsden> NCommander: late 40s
<NCommander> heh
<jmarsden> I have a kid older than wgrant :-)
<wgrant> I'm sure somebody here can beat that.
<ethana2> I have a mom older than you
<ethana2> ..does that...   count?
<jmarsden> ethana2: I dount it :-)  I'll not start on the "I used punched cards on a mainframe in college" stuff...
<ethana2> my grandma used to do that also
<ethana2> keypunch op
<ethana2> I've driven between Omaha, NE and Anchorage, AK 3 times
<ethana2> ...and when I find all those pics I took, I should put them on flickr under the CC-BY-SA
<ethana2> Well, fact of the matter is that Shuttleworth has us all beat
 * elkbuntu raises an eyebrow.
 * wgrant removes elkbuntu's eyebrows.
<elkbuntu> oi!
 * elkbuntu steals wgrant's tickets to UDS.
<elkbuntu> eyebrows kthxbai.
<wgrant> elkbuntu: Damn. OK, you can have them back.
 * elkbuntu returns wgrant's tickets to UDS.
<wgrant> Thanks.
<elkbuntu> A pleasure doing business, as always!
<wgrant> Of course, of course.
 * NCommander looks forward to see who he will be roommating with
 * StevenK already knows who he is roomie-ing with
<ethana2> oh hey, it uploaded to revu
<ethana2> ...how do i find it?
<ethana2> RAOF: dput revu stellarium_0.10.0_source.changes    was successful.  How do I find where it put the files?
<RAOF> It should now appear on revu
<ethana2> ...what page should it appear on?
<ethana2> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ doesn't show it, but I'm probably looking in the wrong spot
<ethana2> RAOF
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> You've got a GPG key associated with on launchpad.net associated with the email address that you uploaded with?
<ethana2> yes
<ethana2> well, I didn't upload with an email address
<ethana2> I just.. uploaded it
<ethana2> When my machine tries to put addresses for me in things, it says ethan@home
<ethana2> ..which is my user on this machine
<RAOF> But you've got an email address in the changelog, and it'll have signed the packages with that key.
<ethana2> and useless
<ethana2> oh, yes
<ethana2> i believe i got that right
<ethana2> yes, it is correct
<RAOF> I'm not sure, then.  REVU has been undergoing some changes, and it's been /some time/ since I last uploaded there :)
<ethana2> gyarr, is there any 8.10 install on earth where the gnome core apps gnome-sound-recorder and cheese are functioning at all?
<ethana2> I haven't seen one
 * ethana2 grabs lcpci from his mom's 1525n
<RAOF> ethana2: Mine, for example.
<ethana2> lucky
<ethana2> Dell can't ship 8.10 until it's functional on their Ubuntu line of machines..
<ethana2> I'm going to try to analyze the lspci I just grabbed......
<ethana2> gahh, i needed lsusb, not lspci
<ethana2> webcam is usb
<ethana2> meh, both bugs confirmed on both the 1525n and the 1420n
<karooga> Morning. Anyone have links to packaging libraries?
<NCommander> karooga, what library are you trying to package
<karooga> NCommander: it's called libastro. It's embedded in another app I'm trying to package.  ScottK suggested that I package them separately.
<NCommander> Packaging libraries is a PITA, not something I recommend doing  if you don't have prior packaging experience
<karooga> NCommander: PITA?
<karooga> ah... :-)
<NCommander> pain in the a**
<karooga> NCommander: I'm here to learn and don't give up easily.
<jmarsden> karooga: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/LibraryPackaging
<karooga> NCommander: are you saying that I shouldn't bother de-embedding the lib?
<NCommander> no, I'm not saying that
<NCommander> I'm just saying be prepared for pain ;-)
<karooga> jmarsden: thanks.
<jmarsden> karooga: No problem.  I found it in the collection of bookmarks I made a few months ago when I was new here... (so I'm *still* new here, I suppose).  Generally, if a Google search doesn't turn up whan you need, for Ubuntu development info, searching wiki.ubuntu.com often works.
<karooga> jmarsden: thanks.  Yeah, google wasn't particularly useful.  Will bear in mine the wiki.
<karooga> jmarsden: what are you packaging?
<jmarsden> I just fixed a minor bug in koverartist, now looking around at other "easy" bugs on LP I can tackle...
<jmarsden> Maybe about to try LP #28906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 28906 in firehol "The rcS.d script for firehol starts before NFS and NIS" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28906
<jmarsden> Advice needed: In a postinst script, is there a valid reason for doing:    update-rc.d firehol start 41 S . start 36 0 6 . > /dev/null   or am I looking at a typo/bug where the second "start" should really be "stop" ?
<Hobbsee> gouki: you're welcome :P
<Hobbsee> RAOF: belated agreement. Linode really rocks.
<RAOF> Yasumoto: I'm looking at your Miro merge; are you here?
<RainCT> Is stuff from task "minimal" always installed or can it be removed?   (ie, should it be in Depends?)
<geser> RainCT: it's possible to remove ubuntu-minimal and packages it depends on
<RainCT> geser: OK, so the only packages which don't need to be depended upon are Essential ones?
<wgrant> Essential and Build-Essential.
<RainCT> thanks
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> RainCT,
<NCommander> RainCT, can I release an update to ubuntu-dev-tools?
<NCommander> RainCT, I updated the buildd script to work on resocre again
<RainCT> NCommander: sure
<StevenK> NCommander: Can you pastebin the diff?
<NCommander> StevenK, for what, buildd?
<StevenK> NCommander: Yes
<StevenK> Hobbsee: ^
<NCommander> StevenK, she already has it
<StevenK> Ah ha :-)
<NCommander> how do you think I fixed it :-)?
<NCommander> StevenK, can't wait an hour for me to upload a package?
<NCommander> RainCT, any objection if I make the tools jaunty aware?
<RainCT> NCommander: why would I? :)
<Hobbsee> it works nicely for me :)
<NCommander> RainCT, committed
 * NCommander wishes he could rescore :-(
<RainCT> heh
 * RainCT whiches that NCommander won't be able to rescore *g*
<NCommander> RainCT, why not ;.;?
<RainCT> NCommander: because you'd give your own uploads the highest priority :P
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> I won't
<NCommander> My uploads already have that
<NCommander> linux-ports takes priority when uploaded ;-)
<RainCT> heh
<NCommander> RainCT, uploaded to the archive
<RainCT> uhm.. what face is ";.;" supposed to be? :P
<NCommander> crying anime style
<NCommander> StevenK, its uploaded. If you want it for Intrepid, I'll do a backport (although it would need a single source level modification)
<StevenK> It was only curious as to the changes
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> let me get the diff
<NCommander> The name of the variables in the forum changed
<NCommander> it really was a oneline change
<NCommander> StevenK, http://pastebin.ca/1249460
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
<DktrKranz> happy debian day sebner
<sebner> DktrKranz: you too
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> morning NCommander
<NCommander> DktrKranz, know any good intrepid/hardy bugs that need work?
<DktrKranz> there are many, but I've none handy
<NCommander> DktrKranz, oh, can you verify a bug for me?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/mtd-utils/+bug/294428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294428 in mtd-utils "mtd-utils build fail" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<DktrKranz> ah, right. I fought with VMware yesterday, and I lost... but I can test it
 * NCommander confirmed in a chroot which I think it good enough but since your SRU ...
<DktrKranz> does it require X to be tested?
<NCommander> ni
<NCommander> *no
 * NCommander can get X to work ina  chroot just fine ...
 * DktrKranz has a virtualization instrument provided by University of Bologna, simply great
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I verified the proposed package :-)
<DktrKranz> mark it in the bug report
<NCommander> did
<NCommander> now what?
<DktrKranz> I'll do it too
<DktrKranz> so we can tag it accordingly
<DktrKranz> NCommander, any ideas on http://hattory.no-ip.info/jaunty/result/collectd_4.4.2-2ubuntu1/collectd_4.4.2-2ubuntu1.buildlog ?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, add libupsclient1-dev as a build-dep
<DktrKranz> already there
<NCommander> O_o;
<NCommander> what does ls -lah /usr/lib/libupsclient.so say on the subject?
 * DktrKranz tries
<DktrKranz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Nov  9 12:36 /usr/lib/libupsclient.so -> libupsclient.so.1.0.0
<DktrKranz> ls: cannot access /usr/lib/libupsclient.so.1.0.0: No such file or directory
<DktrKranz> what the heck...
<NCommander> Broken package
<NCommander> File a bug against libupsclient
<DktrKranz> really
<NCommander> Well, make sure the package is fully installed
<NCommander> Are you sure libupsclient1 is installed?
<DktrKranz> yes
<DktrKranz> but...
<DktrKranz> root@utumno:/# dpkg -L libupsclient1
<DktrKranz> /lib/libupsclient.so.1.0.0
<DktrKranz> why is library there?
<NCommander> That's a legit packaging bug
 * DktrKranz checks if Debian is affected too
<NCommander> We have an Ubuntu diff
<DktrKranz> http://patches.ubuntu.com/n/nut/nut_2.2.2-8ubuntu1.patch
<DktrKranz> debian is affected too
 * NCommander sighs
 * NCommander files an RC bug
<lidb> hello, I have set "Email notifications", but I still do not get a email when someone comments my uploads
<lidb> what should I do?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, stop. look at debian 491591
<ubottu> Debian bug 491591 in libupsclient1 "libupsclient1: move libupsclient.so.1 from /usr/lib to /lib" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/491591
<lidb> and the merge account always failed with MOD_PYTHON ERROR
<NCommander> DktrKranz, bug sent to Debian
<NCommander> Oops
<NCommander> too late
<NCommander> crap
<NCommander> nut (2.2.2-8ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
<NCommander> Whoever did the merge then did it wrong
 * NCommander checks Debian
<lidb> hello, my "Preferred email address" is empty, what should I do?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, checking the Debian packaging, still a bug
<devfil> NCommander, DktrKranz: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=491591
<ubottu> Debian bug 491591 in libupsclient1 "libupsclient1: move libupsclient.so.1 from /usr/lib to /lib" [Normal,Closed]
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> d'oh
 * NCommander amends and retitles his bug
<RainCT> lidb: on REVU?
<RainCT> ok I see
<NCommander> devfil, I think /lib though might be a policy violation
<devfil> I think the same thing
<NCommander> well
<lidb> RainCT, yes
<azeem> well, nut is in /bin
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> FHS says its library should go into /lib
<NCommander> (in that case)
 * NCommander actually went and looked it up :-)
<lidb> RainCT, my account is "lidaobing" on revu
<RainCT> lidb: "merge accounts" should work now
<RainCT> ah wait
 * NCommander tests his fix
<RainCT> lidb: now merge whould really work :P
<RainCT> lidb: and it should assign you the e-mail address which you merge (I need to change this some day so that it fetches the e-mail from LP)
<lidb> RainCT, sounds works, thanks
<RainCT> np
<iulian> DktrKranz: Hey, do you work on piuparts merge? Can I take it?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, there are two roads: move symlink to /lib too and adjust rdependencies (collectd) or leave it for compatibility purposes
<DktrKranz> iulian, I see it has been uploaded again, so check in PTS if versions match, but please go ahead
<slytherin> geser: are you planning to merge/sync freeguide (You are the last uploader)? Or should I start working on it?
<iulian> DktrKranz: Yes, 0.33 was uploaded yesterday to Sid. We have 0.31 in Jaunty.
<DktrKranz> iulian, good. it's all yours ;)
<iulian> DktrKranz: It's done. u-u-s is already subscribed to the bug report.
<iulian> Thanks :)
<DktrKranz> good
<DktrKranz> I processed a bit yesterday, but I'd like to focus on RC bugs today
<slytherin> Is there a definitive list of RC bugs? I would like to work on java apps/libs.
<DktrKranz> slytherin, I look at http://bts.turmzimmer.net/details.php?bydist=both&sortby=bugnr&new=7&refresh=1800, but anybody please correct me if it's the wrong one
<azeem> you can ask in #debian-release I guess
<geser> slytherin: feel free to do the merge as I'm currently to busy doing merges myself (you can also work on other merges from me)
<slytherin> geser: ok
<ScottK> NCommander: Would you please do a backport for ubuntu-dev-tools to hardy/intrepid now that it's been updated to know about Jaunty.
<james_w> morning all
<RainCT> hi james_w
<james_w> hey RainCT
 * sebner winks james_w 
<iulian> Hello james_w
<james_w> who's up for tackling some Debian RC bugs today?
<RainCT> impressive response :P
<james_w> heh :-)
<james_w> Laney: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504528 isn't fixed :-)
<ubottu> Debian bug 504528 in libghc6-configfile-dev "libghc6-configfile-dev: Fails to configure: MissingH-1.0.1 doesn't" [Serious,Open]
<DktrKranz> RainCT, that's why we fixed them all ;)
<iulian> devfil: Hey, about the mapnik merge. libagg-dev was added twice in the Build-Depends field, that's the reason why I removed it.
<devfil> iulian: then explain it in the changelog
<iulian> devfil: I don't understand the second sentence. In the end, the homepage field is also an Ubuntu change.
<iulian> devfil: But I can remove it, since it increases the delta between Debian and Ubuntu.
<devfil> iulian: it was already in the Ubuntu package?
<iulian> devfil: No, I added it, but isn't it an Ubuntu change as well?
<devfil> iulian: yes, but you need to add it as new change
<devfil> * Merge from debian, remaining ubuntu change:
<devfil>    - old ubuntu change
<devfil> * New ubuntu change
<devfil> this is usually what we do during a merge
<iulian> Ah-ha, didn't know that, thanks. Will attach a new debdiff in a moment.
<iulian> devfil: Done, see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19513117/mapnik_debdiff
 * Laney eyes NCommander 
<Laney> take it you didn't see my u-d-t branch
<iulian> I'm looking for someone to upload this patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/69228/plain/ for me.
 * RainCT grumbles about the Wikipedia survey asking what you nacionality is but not including Catalan in the list.. If I wasn't German also I couldn't participate :P
<sebner> RainCT: Catalan = Spain :P :P :P
 * RainCT hits sebner with a big, stinking fish
 * sebner hides
 * jdong thinks prevu needs a test suite....
<jdong> now to go about doing that...
<nellery> siretart: I updated my keepassx bzr branch for a new upstream release
<nellery> https://code.launchpad.net/~nick.ellery/keepassx/ubuntu
<slytherin> The file that is supposed to contain information about patching system is README.source right?
<dmoerner> yes
<slytherin> and what should be the file called if it talks about repackaged source by deleting jar files etc.
<ScottK> slytherin: If you're repackaging the source, that's supposed to be described in debian/copyright.
<slytherin> ScottK: There is a package where I messed up with file names and Debian developer messed up even more. Instead of having a README.source I added README.Debian. There was already a README.Debian-source which talked about removal of jar files and the Debian developer renamed it to README.source.
<slytherin> I am hoping that this gets noticed and package gets rejected with right reason.
<slytherin> Rejected form Debian queue I mean.
<ScottK> README.source is about patch systems.
<ScottK> Unlikely.
<slytherin> ScottK: Right. But the Debian package has now a README.source that talks about removal and a README.Debian that talks about patch system. So it is wrong order.
<ScottK> Agreed.  I doubt it'll get rejected out of New for that though.  It could.
<ScottK> Just file a bug after it gets out.
<ScottK> README.source is in debian-policy 3.8, so it's not optional.
<slytherin> I had already files a bug about absence of README.source but the Debian developer didn't read my comments fully. I will add another comment on the bug.
<dmoerner> it's in 4.14
<dmoerner> oh you mean version not section number
<JDahl> I am trying to debug a python extension module, and I keep getting this error "ImportError: foo.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4", and from searching on google this looks to be a known problem with python-dbg in Ubuntu.  Has any of you encountered a similar problem?
<JDahl> I know this is not the Ubuntu support channel,  but I thought you guys probably know more about than the ordinary support channel
<ScottK> JDahl: What version of Ubuntu are you running?
<JDahl> 8.10
<ScottK> JDahl: Would you please pastebin the full traceback?
<slytherin> Are any archive admins around for a manual sync?
<POX> JDahl: you tried to import a module for which you don't have -dbg package isntalled, you're welcome, next time ask on #debian-python ;P
<ScottK> POX: ;-)
<POX> ;)
<sebner> ScottK: so many questions ;D
<ScottK> slytherin: Unlikely on a weekend.  Just file a sync request.
<slytherin> ScottK: I have. It is acked. I was checking if anybody is available.
<ScottK> sebner: Next question is remind me what I sponsored of yours so I can check.
<JDahl> POX, you're right...
<ScottK> slytherin: OK.  Patience then I guess.
<sebner> ScottK: and if I can't remember (I have a bad brain :\) Besides I have to answer your 2nd question first =)
<slytherin> yes, I need lots of it. Got to go to bed. :-)
<sebner> ScottK: but from quick thinking I can't really remember even 1 sponsorship
<ScottK> And yet you cc'ed me on your application as a sponsor?
<sebner> ScottK: no, I CC'ed you because you once told be that you want to comment ;) Besides, you are the only person that asks this questions I think so this is maybe good as well
<siretart> nellery: uh, you just upgraded the branch. that's not the way I usually work. Rather upgrade the upstream branch first, then merge it in
<ScottK> sebner: OK.
<nellery> siretart: which is the upstream one?
<nellery> the trunk?
<siretart> nellery: use bzr vis or log to identify the latest commit of the upstream branch
<siretart> nellery: for that particular branch, it is the revid siretart@tauware.de-20081002072609-4dhynib9wtj8wxom
<nellery> siretart: I'm a bit lost.. sorry, I don't have very much experience working with bzr
<siretart> nellery: in your branch, do the following: 'bzr push -rrevid:siretart@tauware.de-20081002072609-4dhynib9wtj8wxom ../upstream'
<siretart> nellery: then go to ../upstream, and import the new upstream tarball
<siretart> nellery: then go to the trunk branch, and merge the new updated upstream branch
<siretart> there is also a plugin called 'bzr-builddeb' that automates these steps with the command 'merge-upstream'
<nellery> siretart: how do I import the new upstream tarball?
<siretart> nellery: I have this function in my zshrc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69734/ (should also work with bash)
<siretart> (to be run in '..', the upstream branch must be named 'upstream'
<siretart> )
<nellery> siretart: could this just be done by uploading the .diff.gz, or should the branch be used?
<ajmitch> good morning
<siretart> nellery: sorry?
<nellery> siretart: rather than using a branch to upload the new upstream release, could we just do it normally with the .diff.gz
<siretart> nellery: in theory, we could just avoid using bzr, right. I however really like bzr's 'merge' feature.
<nellery> siretart: that's a good point, but I'm terrible with bzr, so perhaps I should just leave this to you?
<siretart> OK
<bmm> Hi, I get a PPA rejection with: Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any. What am I doing wrong??
<gouki> bmm, you have 'jaunty' on the changelog?
<bmm> gouki: metalink (0.3.4-0ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
<gouki> Launchpad still doesn't support jaunty, bmm.
<bmm> gouki: Aaah... thanks :D
<bmm> gouki: but revu needs it, right? :)
<gouki> No problem. I had the same question yesterday.
<gouki> bmm, that I do not know.
<siretart> nellery: new upstream version uploaded to debian. we can sync it tomorrow from experimental
<POX> any Pylons fan around? (there are some packages to sync from unstable/experimental if someone has some free time)
<POX> any Django/TurboGears fan around? (ready to be converted to Pylons ;)
<ScottK> POX: Sync from Unstable is automatic right now if there are no Ubuntu changes.
<POX> yeah, but I uploaded some packages to experimental
<ScottK> In that case just file sync requests and I can ack them.
<ScottK> Just be sure to specify from Experimental and the version/revision.
<POX> that's why I asked, I'm too lazy (aka busy) to test it in ubuntu chroot :)
<POX> (and some people complained about old SQLAlchemy in Ubuntu on #sqlalchemy)
 * ajmitch wishes that it'd be feasible to autosync from experimental
 * sebner waves to geser 
<ajmitch> except that small thing about it being a mix of real experimental stuff, and stuff meant for unstable
<ScottK> ajmitch: Requestsync now at least has a -d flag you can set to experimental.
<ScottK> So asking isn't so hard.
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, it does mean we need to be watchign experimental for new upstream versions
<ScottK> Yes.
<ajmitch> instead of dealing with the inevitable post-release complaints
<sebner> ScottK: my answer is already on the way (but needs aproval since I'm not subscribed). How many questions do you plan to ask me? but be warned I won't tell you what you want to hear, I tell what I really think ;)
<ScottK> sebner: That's good that you say what you think.
<ScottK> sebner: Why don't you subscribe while your app is pending.
<sebner> ScottK: Well I first didn't realize that I'm not subscribed (because I was once) and I though when I'm MOTU I don't need subscription. I usually read that stuff on the web
<sebner> *thought
<bmm> Hi. If anybody is out there and willing to comment, my upload can be found at: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink Thanks! Any and all comments are welcome ;)
<RainCT> bmm: I've done a quick review :)
<bmm> RainCT: just what I need :D I'm trying to get back into the game. Thanks!
<gouki> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos if anyone has time :) Want to see if everything is alright before moving to other stuff.
<gouki> Anyone has any idea why tss (terminal screensaver) was dropped for hardy and intrepid?
<ajmitch> because it was removed from debian
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=476313
<ubottu> Debian bug 476313 in ftp.debian.org "RM: tss" [Unknown,Closed]
<gouki> Wow! Too bad :S
<jmarsden> Is there a "bzr for MOTUs" quickstart page somewhere?  The Wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrContributorHowto assumes you already know bzr itself... looks like it might be time for me to get to grips with bzr.  I already know cvs and svn well.
<jmarsden> Answering my own question: Looks like http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/ may be enough to get me started :-)
<goobsoft> Can someone help me understand the following build error?
<goobsoft> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<goobsoft> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19520854/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.google-launcher_1-0ubuntu0%2B8.04%2Bppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<azeem> make: Nothing to be done for `binary-arch'.
<StevenK> goobsoft: You don't do anything on amd64, since the binary-arch rule is empty
<azeem> goobsoft: it's a Arch: al package
<azeem> or something
<goobsoft> Yes, the package is written in python.  I have "Architecture: any" in the control file.
<coppro> it's Arch: all
<coppro> goobsoft: Architecture: any is for a package that will work on any architecture, but needs to be rebuilt for each. Architecture: all has a platform-independent .deb
<goobsoft> Ah, thanks
<swegner> I'm trying to build a package using pbuilder, and I'm getting unmet dependencies for packages that should clearly be available.  It's probably a problem with my configuration, although I can't track down exactly what.  Is there a pbuilder guru around that could help?
<swegner> Nevermind, think I found it-- I update the COMPONENTS in my .pbuilderrc, and forgot to specify --override-config when running "pbuilder --update"
<Hobbsee> swegner: that'd do it.
<radix> what's the best way to find out what "dh --with" addons are available? I can't seem to find any index of them
<radix> oh okay, I found the implementation files in the perl library.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-02
<geser> let's see where this discussion will lead to once all devs are back from weekend
<amikrop> Hello, where can I find the PPA version of gnome-screensaver?
<amikrop> Because I have the problem with screensaver coming on when watching fullscreen in VLC.
<amikrop> And as I read in LP, the PPA version is the only solution yet.
<MsMaco> whose ppa do you want it from?
<MsMaco> i'm sure more than one prson has packaged gnome-screensaver somewhere. whatever but report you're reading should specify
<MsMaco> *bug
<amikrop> ok
 * ajmitch would guess from the gnome-screensaver page on LP that it's the version in the motumedia PPA
<amikrop> I found it on LP
<MsMaco> https://launchpad.net/+search?field.text=gnome-screensaver+ppa says the 3rd result has versions of gnome-screensaver for gutsy, hardy, and intrepid...
<amikrop> ajmitch: yeah, where can I find that?
<MsMaco> probably launchpad.net/~motumedia?
<amikrop> I need the motumedia one
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/ppa
<amikrop> ajmitch: so, I should add the PPA to the software sources of mine? can't I just download the specific package?
<amikrop> ok, found it
<amikrop> hope it helps
<amikrop> also, hope the patched package gets into the main repos
<amikrop> thanks
<lifeless> *blink*
 * ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> it should be aa fairly trustable PPA anyway :)
<jgoppert> hey guys, so i want to get libjsw up and running by disabling jscalibrator directory from being called in the debian/rules and eliminating the binary from debian/control, what is the best way to do this, extract the orig tarball, apply the patch, edit, and the diff with the orignal to get an updated patch?
<jgoppert> hey guys trying to package libjsw with jscalibrator disabled on karmic, got debuild to run finally, so now when uploading to my ppa do i need to upload the original tarball since it isn't in karmic yet, or do i need to use debuild -S or what?
<ajmitch> looks like it's not in karmic due to probable removal
<ajmitch> -S is always required, -sa will include the orig tarball
<jgoppert> its not in karmic yet because it ties into gtk 1.2 but they are working on repackaging it with gtk 2.0, -sa will include the tarball in the changes file?
<ajmitch> yes it will
<jgoppert> thanks
<ajmitch> I expect you'll probably have to edit more than debian/rules to disable the gtk+ app in there
<ajmitch> like removing it from debian/control, various .install files, etc
<ScottK> jgoppert: A better bet then is to get it into Debian and sync it into Ubuntu from there.
<ajmitch> ScottK: it's still in sid, not quite removed yet
<ScottK> ajmitch: Ah, even better.
<ScottK> jgoppert: Work on getting it fixed in Debian and then have it sync'ed it Ubuntu.
<ajmitch> if you're really keen, offer to adopt the package in debian if you want to maintain it :)
<ScottK> Personally, with still 5% of the existing Ubuntu archive unable to be built from source, I'm not particularly excited about the prospect of adding more stuff we need to maintain to an LTS release.
<jgoppert> well i'm really just a beginner, i just disabled jscalibrator which was the only really gtk dependency
<jgoppert> only 5%, wow i didn't know that
<ajmitch> looks like persia was offering to help maintain it in the debian games SVN repository
<ajmitch> 5% is still too high
<jgoppert> oh i read that backward, lol
<ajmitch> everything in a release should be buildable on that release, IMO
<ajmitch> but that's a lot of work for stuff carried forward over a few years :)
<jgoppert> i was relying on checkinstall for the longest time, finally took the plunge into real packaging
<ScottK> ajmitch: My proposal is another rebuild test and remove the binaries for anything that FTBFS.  That way we know everything was at least buildable at some point during the cycle.
<ajmitch> ScottK: debian has it slightly easier in that stuff can be ejected from testing without being removed altogether
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> We could at least not deliver binaries we don't have a hope of building.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I got one package removed in Karmic that hadn't been touched since Warty.
<ajmitch> that's probably worthwhile
<ajmitch> was this one of the ones imported from apt-get.org that we were discussing?
<ScottK> I think so
<ScottK> It was never in Debian.
<ajmitch> LTS is a good time for a cleanup
<wgrant> You can check the old -changes archives to see where something came from.
<jgoppert> when is the next lts release?
<wgrant> jgoppert: 10.04
<ajmitch> in april 2010, the development of it is just starting
<jgoppert> nice, hopefully i'll be able to contribute by then to the packaging effort
<jgoppert> so basically debuild -S just doesn't produce the .deb files
<ajmitch> yes, -S means source-only, which is what's required for uploading to launchpad
<jgoppert> ok and it looks like it appends source instead of the dist, so i'm assuming thats how apt-get source works?
<ajmitch> apt-get source just grabs the .orig.tar.gz, .dsc & .diff.gz files listed in the repository's Sources index
<ajmitch> basically just what you upload
<jgoppert> ok, so this is a typical name to upload libjsw_1.5.6-0ubuntu3~hsl1_source.changes
<ajmitch> with dput, yes
<jgoppert> cool, how do i get files off there, because i uploaded a whole set with amd64 instead of source in the name
<ajmitch> if you uploaded them to a PPA, they would have been rejected
<jgoppert> ok, the command line didn't say anything, i guess i have to wait for launchpad to process it?
<ajmitch> yes
<jgoppert> ok, so if i started to maintain libjsw, what do i need to do, do i just upload to a different ppa?
<ajmitch> maintenance would preferably be done in debian, because the maintainer has offered the package for adoption there
<ajmitch> either way, you'd need to start off by getting the package upload sponsored
<ajmitch> that is, someone with upload rights would need to upload it to debian or ubuntu
<jgoppert> yeah, i tried to upload to my personal ppa and i got this? Rejected:
<jgoppert> The signer of this package has no upload rights to this distribution's primary archive. Â Did you mean to upload to a PPA?
<jgoppert> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<jgoppert> libjsw (1:1.5.6-0ubuntu3~hsl1) karmic; urgency=low
<jgoppert>  Â * Disabled jscalibrator due to gtk 1.2 dependency.
<ajmitch> how did you try & upload to a PPA?
 * ajmitch can't remember the relevant dput option to automatically pick your ppa
<jgoppert> oh wow i didn't specify my ppa, guess thats how i upload to the real ubntu?
<wgrant> That is the real Ubuntu, yes.
<wgrant> dput ppa:user/ppa blah.changes
<ajmitch> thanks wgrant
<jgoppert> cool, yeah i think i got it now
<ajmitch> saves me digging around for it
<jgoppert> thanks for your help guys, has really helped me figure this out
 * wgrant stabs Soyuz sample data in the face a few times.
<ajmitch> wgrant: make some better sample data
<ajmitch> how goes the great overhaul for new-style source packages?
<wgrant> Nearly there. Nearly there.
<lifeless> ajmitch: sample data *is the problem*
<wgrant> sample data is useful.
<ajmitch> lifeless: I'd believe it, I hate trying to test some of the stuff I do at work due to having to create sample data for the weird corner cases
<jgoppert> success, 2 pending builds
<jgoppert> :-)
<jgoppert> what is lpia, is that like the atom processor?
<ScottK> jgoppert: It is, but technically it's just like i386 now
<ScottK> Up through Jaunty there was some attempt at optimization for Atom, but it was dropped in Karmic.
<jgoppert> oh ok, thanks, yeah i've got a little dell mini 9
<wgrant> Is it kept in karmic for the lpia-specific functionality patches, or just for the upgrade path?
<jgoppert> how long do personal ppa builds take?
<lifeless> depends
<wgrant> jgoppert: If you click on the architecture label in the appropriate row of your PPA table, it will give you an estimate of the start time.
<wgrant> Although in two days that will be wildly inaccurate :(
<jgoppert> why is that?
<wgrant> Internal build queueing changes.
<wgrant> Without corresponding queue length calculation changes.
<jgoppert> 5 hours.. ouch
<ajmitch> inaccurate as in a few hours/days?
<lifeless> wgrant: :(
<wgrant> ajmitch: Depends on the length of the queue.
<wgrant> Basically, build will become a lot more serial from Thursday.
<wgrant> *builds
<wgrant> So the estimate will be lower than it should be.
<ajmitch> do any of the PPA buildds get repurposed for the flood of autosyncs for lucid?
<wgrant> No.
 * ScottK thinks the flood won't be so great if they sync from testing.
<jdong> that kinda was a surprise :)
<ajmitch> there'll be enough updates
<ajmitch> jdong: yes, for many people
<ajmitch> I noticed it a few days before release when looking at the lucid schedule
<jdong> heh I personally think it's slightly ironic to try something this drastically new for a LTS
<ScottK> It was discussed at the last UDS, but for continuing to sync from testing after Debian freezes, not for the whole cycle.
<wgrant> ScottK: There are still approximately far too many.
<wgrant> ScottK: The page is still loading...
<lifeless> ScottK: didn't you hear, its more stable.
<wgrant> 2432 syncs fro
<wgrant> ... from Squeeze
<ajmitch> lifeless: sure, and how many people run testing compared to unstable?
<wgrant> 1117 merges.
<jdong> it'll be even more stable if we swap out the init daemon after feature freeze again!
<jdong> oh wait *cough*
<jdong> *goes back to his corner*
<ScottK> Well it makes "get it into Debian so we don't maintain it" a lot harder to sell.
<lifeless> ajmitch: turn up the gain on your sarcasm detector
<ScottK> jdong: If it was insanity, it was at least planned insanity.
<lifeless> ajmitch: going to pyconnz?
<wgrant> ScottK: It's not much of a problem; I don't imagine that Squeeze will freeze before Lucid.
<ajmitch> lifeless: don't worry, I knew it was sarcasm :)
<ajmitch> and yes, I'm heading up on friday
<ScottK> wgrant: It's scheduled for March.
<wgrant> ScottK: Ha ha ha.
<ajmitch> wgrant: you sound like you don't believe that
<ScottK> wgrant: No, freeze schedules are reasonably reliable.  It's release schedules that are unbelievable.
<jgoppert> hey guys i tested my packaged in pbuilder and had this error? The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<jgoppert>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libgtk1.2-dev which is a virtual package.
<jgoppert> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
<jgoppert> Remove the following packages:
<jgoppert> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<jgoppert> I grepped for libgtk and got nothing left after i wiped it out.
<jdong> gtk1 is poof, is it not?
<wgrant> Does anybody recall if all the buildds are running Hardy yet?
<ajmitch> jdong: it is
<jgoppert> yeah it is, i'm repackaging libjsw from jaunty
<ajmitch> jgoppert: make sure you're building your revision of the package
<jgoppert> oh, good call, let me check
<ajmitch> since I can see on LP that you removed the libgtk1.2-dev from build-depends
<jgoppert> the dangers of wildcard, lol *.dsc.. oops
<jdong> indeed
<jdong> it's certainly caused directhex to accidentally shove 2 or 20 packages into the Ubuntu queue
<jgoppert> good thing i did that forgot a -f on a rm command
<jdong> *ducks* :)
<jgoppert> lol wow
<jdong> lazy typing FTW :)
<ajmitch> jdong: I'm sure he'd never ever do such a mistake
<jdong> lol he fixed his overzealous dput by now :)
<ajmitch> besides, he's probably not awake at the moment to hassle about it
<jdong> lol I'm sure I'll be slapped by the time I wake up tomorrow morning
<ajmitch> we can only hope
<serialorder> jgoppert: you are still applying patches in debian/patches that  modify files in jscalibrator/ which seems a little bit silly since you arent building that package. It wont prevent it from building correctly though
<jgoppert> serialorder, to my knowledge i didn't modify anything in jscalibrator, i just removed the statements dealing with it and eliminated the gtk dependency?
<jgoppert> ok so i jacked up and submitted a package on my ppa without checking it with pbuilder, how best to delete the old one and submit the new one?
<kklimonda> jgoppert, upload a new one with a newer version
<kklimonda> jgoppert, you cn try deleting it from ppa but I've had mixed results with that :)
<jgoppert> ok thanks
<ScottK> Even if you've deleted it, you still need to increment the revision
<serialorder> jgoppert: if i were packaging this I would split those patches into two sets of files. Those that patch files in jscalibrator and those that don't. Then you can enable to non-jscalibrator patches in 00list and leave the others out. It just seems wrong to patch files you aren't going to use.
<wgrant> You can never upload the same version again.
<wgrant> You can sometimes upload an older version if you really know what you're doing.
<wgrant> But it should not be relied upon.
<jgoppert> oh i see, yeah those were from the old package, i didn't modify those, i figure i might get around to fixing the gtk stuff in jscalibrator eventually and don't want to mess up what was done there
<jgoppert> warning: the current version (1:1.5.6-0ubuntu3~hsl1) is smaller than the previous one (1:1.5.6-0ubuntu3)
<wgrant> That's true.
<jgoppert> what should i do about this, take ubuntu back down to 3?
<jgoppert> i mean zero?
<wgrant> What's the current version?
<wgrant> In Ubuntu, that is.
<jgoppert> well in jaunty 0ubuntu3
<jgoppert> nothing in karmic
<wgrant> Perhaps make it 3+hsl1
<wgrant> Since your package is not less than the old version.
<jgoppert> what if i went to 0ubuntu4~hsl1 so if some other packager releases a new one it will overtake mine?
<syn-ack> hrm
<jgoppert> is that what they would do typically going from jaunty 0ubuntu3 to karmic?
<wgrant> jgoppert: -0ubuntu3+blah has that same property. -0ubuntu4 is greater than it.
<wgrant> The next official version will be at least -0ubuntu4.
<jgoppert> ok, thanks
<syn-ack> there was a link in the topic... I think in here wrt open week? anyone happen to know what it is?
<jgoppert> i'll go with the + then
<syn-ack> neeeever mind... Sorry to bug yall it was in yet another ubuntu related channel.
<eboyjr> Can I get my patch sponsored? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/470008
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 470008 in gnome-control-center "The Custom option in "Visual Effects" tab of Appearance Preferences should be shown even if simple-ccsm is not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Amaranth> eboyjr: that's in main and the desktop team handles it so you'll want to talk to the folks in #ubuntu-desktop
<Amaranth> eboyjr: but they won't be around for at least 3 more hours
<Amaranth> and it's too early to upload anything to lucid
<Amaranth> eboyjr: and it can't go into karmic because it's not a critical issue and it's sort of a UI change
<eboyjr> Okay and why won't they be around?
<eboyjr> Ah
<Amaranth> eboyjr: they're all in europe :)
<Amaranth> oh, and you need to attach a diff of the diff
<JanC> reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess might be useful too
<Amaranth> or a debdiff would be even better
<eboyjr> Those are the pages I read and okay I'll try to make a debdiff somehow whatever that it
<eboyjr> s/it/is
<JanC> they'll probably want a patch against the lucid version too, by the time it's ready
<JanC> ;)
<jgoppert> hey if i have a package on my ppa thats not yet in ubuntu would the version be opencv-2.0.0-0hsl1 or 0ubuntu0+hsl1
<eboyjr> LOL I'll just leave my patch out there in cyberspace then...
 * Amaranth really wants to redo that whole tab anyway
<Amaranth> or at least the code behind it, the UI is fine
<eboyjr> Ah I like my feature though so please let me implement it (or have it implemented for me). But can I have a bug to fix then? I'm in a code-y mood
<jgoppert> hey any way to get autotools to dump library dependencies to control file
<Amaranth> eboyjr: there are something like 80,000 bugs open
<Amaranth> finding one to fix should not be a problem :)
<eboyjr> Haha I'm looking for a juicy bug thanks =)
<lifeless> eboyjr: do a sort byb importance, pick one
<lifeless> jgoppert: not currently
<jgoppert> lifeless: thanks, that too bad
<Amaranth> lifeless: all the critical bugs are hard
<Amaranth> although some of the High ones can be pretty easy
<jgoppert> so is my only option to add one library at a time using pbuilder to find the missing ones until it is all done?
<eboyjr> By importance, I get bug from Edgy and stuff :P
<lifeless> jgoppert: yes, or read the configure script
<jgoppert> thanks
<lifeless> (.in or .ac I mean)
<jgoppert> if you have a really long list of dependencies in a control file is there a line continuation or do you just keep typing?
<lifeless> theres a continuation
<jgoppert> \ ?
<lifeless> see policy for file format information
<lifeless> [I could just tell you, but then you'd not know how to find the answer to the next question :)]
<jgoppert> true .. lol
<jgoppert> well where is the policy file ?
<lifeless> apt-get install debian-policy
<jgoppert> thanks
<lifeless> dpkg -L debian-policy
<jgoppert> got it :-)
<jgoppert> how often do you guys update your pbuilder, roughly speaking
<lifeless> jgoppert: every build, precisely speaking
<jgoppert> yeah i guess you are right, no reason to risk it
<jmarsden> Why might I be seeing idle builders at http://launchpad.net/builders, but LP tells me my PPA builds will start in 4 hours... ?
<hellothere1> time constraints.....
<micahg> Archive builders are empty, PPA builders are busy
<jmarsden> Ah, OK... and we can't use empty archive builders for PPA work... because a PPA build might take a long time and a new urgent archive build *might* come along in the meantime?  Or are they really configured very differently?
<micahg> different build farm
<jmarsden> It would be more efficient to have a single queue, at least in theory... oh well.  I can attempt to be patient :)
<ScottK> For something that's urgent you can ping a buildd admin to get a build rescored.
<jmarsden> My stiff is not urgent, it just seems sad to have build hardware waiting idle and a multi hour backlog of builds...
<jmarsden> *stuff
 * eboyjr didn't know Launchpad had a build farm that is crazy cool
<jmarsden> eboyjr: Yes.  When you upload a package to your PPA it gets built on multiple architechures automatically... that what the (PPA) build farm does.  See https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<ScottK> jmarsden: I'd tend to go the other way.  The Ubuntu toolchain maintainers are working on getting the toolchain for Lucid ready right now.  I think the notion that a PPA upload might be allowed to block progress on getting Lucid open for development quite odd.
<eboyjr> O I C it uses Xen
<jmarsden> ScottK: Well, sure, if they need the hardware they should be able to grab it.  Even kill a PPA build in progress and requeue it, if necessary.  But that's surely doable with mimimal delay and would thus allow idle hardware to be used when toolchain maintainers *don't* have need of it.
<micahg> Maybe make a feature request in soyuz
<ScottK> jmarsden: It takes a buildd admin to kill a build, so it's not always doable with minimal delay
<ScottK> There is work in progress to pool the buildd's, but I don't know the details.
<jmarsden> ScottK: OK.  I had assumed they already *were* a single pool, basically.
<ScottK> No.  One of the big differences is that PPA buildds are virtualized and the distro buildd's aren't.
<jmarsden> OK.  Just for curiosity... is that for "historical" reasons, or do distro buildd's actually *need* to be real physical machines?
<eboyjr> I would assume that PPAs are only virtualized for security reasons
<JanC> I guess one reason is that virtualization helps a bit with security (everybody can try to abuse a PPA builder)
<JanC> heh  :P
<eboyjr> lol..
<eboyjr> And that distro builds need to be able to be built on physical machines for e.g. testing
<eboyjr> testing as in other people can fixs bugs and compile on their own system
<JanC> well, it also helps that you can use a pre-made image to boot a builder, so that would be useful for the distro builders too
<jgoppert> can anyone help me, i've got zlib as a dependency in my control file but when i use pbuilder its getting undefined references to symbols in the zlib library, what could be going on?
<micahg> jgoppert: do you have the -dev version as the build-dep?
<jgoppert> for opencv-dev i have zlib1g-dev, for opencv2 i have zlib1g
<jgoppert> micahg: for opencv-dev i have zlib1g-dev, for opencv2 i have zlib1g
<micahg1> can you pastebin your contorl file?
<micahg1> *control
<lifeless> jgoppert: you shouldn't manually list the binary library
<lifeless> jgoppert: shlib-deps will get that for you\
<jgoppert> thats what i thought but i was getting that error so i thought it missed it, what could be wrong then
<jgoppert> Source: opencv
<jgoppert> Priority: extra
<jgoppert> Maintainer: James Goppert <jgoppert@users.sourceforge.net>
<jgoppert> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7), autotools-dev
<jgoppert> Standards-Version: 3.8.1
<jmarsden> jgoppert: use pastebin please :)
<jgoppert> what's pastebin?
<jgoppert> is it an irc command?
<jmarsden> !pastebin
<StevenK> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<StevenK> jmarsden: Sorry :-)
<jgoppert> !pastebinit
<ubottu> pastebinit is the command-line equivelent of !pastebin . Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output. Simple usage: command-name | pastebinit
<jgoppert> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<jgoppert> http://paste.ubuntu.com/307295/
<micahg1> jgoppert: you probably need to add zlib1g-dev to the source build-depends on line 4
<jgoppert> so build depends is everything needed to build the package then, and the others are just for package management?
<micahg> yes, anything that needs to be installed alongside the package in question
<jgoppert> so i'm assuming all of my -dev's need to go up there?
<micahg> most likely, if they're needed for building
<jgoppert> i see
<jgoppert> thanks
<micahg> np
<jgoppert> so should i remove the -dev's from the opencv-dev ?
<jgoppert> and i definetly should remove the libs opencv2 right?
<micahg> yes, shlibs should take care of that as lifeless said
<jgoppert> ok , what about on opencv-dev leave the -dev packages?
<micahg> jgoppert: I don't know
<micahg> maybe someone else can answer :)
<jgoppert> hope so :-), i'll go ahead and launch my pbuilder and cross my fingers
<hyperair> hmm packaging libraries here?
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<eboyjr> MoinMoin
<DexterLB> hello
<DexterLB> in which channel can I ask about packaging and debuild errors etc?
<jmarsden> DexterLB: This one.
<DexterLB> ah ok
<DexterLB> I've made my first cmake app and it works! now I want to make a debian package
<DexterLB> I use cdbs and when I do 'debuild -S -sa -k<my key>' it creates and signs the source-only package as expected but if I do 'debuild -sa -k<my key>' to create a binary package it does build it and puts the binaries in the right place in the debian folders, but I get an error. http://pastebin.com/m1253c568
<DexterLB> what list file is dpkg-buildpackage referring to?
<DexterLB> actually dpkg-genchanges
<jmarsden> I think one it uses itself.  Does a straight     debuild    (with no options) work?
<DexterLB> I'll try now
<DexterLB> same error
<DexterLB> :(
<DexterLB> should I pastebin my rules, changelog and control files?
<jmarsden> Hmmm.  Sounds to me like a cmake-specific thing.  I'm no expert at all on cmake and it is 1:38am here... I'd suggest you see if someone else has better ideas than mine :)
<DexterLB> it's 11:38am here
<DexterLB> I'll ask google (again) :D
<slytherin> DexterLB: Do you have a install file in debian/ directory?
<DexterLB> no
<DexterLB> cd debian && ls: http://pastebin.com/m578e5eb7
<jmarsden> DexterLB: One thought before I sleep: you are using a -1ubuntu1 version number, is there really a -1 package of this software already in Debian?  If not, use -0ubuntu1 .. I wonder if that is confusing anything related to the error you are seeing??
<DexterLB> oops
<DexterLB> wait, I'll try
<DexterLB> good night btw
<jmarsden> Goodnight.
<DexterLB> I removed all .ex files from debian and fixed 1ubuntu1 to 0ubuntu1
<DexterLB> now building...
<DexterLB> and same error
<DexterLB> slytherin: here are the contents of debian/ :  changelog compat control copyright dirs docs README.Debian rules
<slytherin> DexterLB: that is your problem. You need to have install file specifying what all files should go into the resulting .deb package.
<DexterLB> BUT
<DexterLB> cdbs executes make install
<DexterLB> and after the debuild, despite the error, there is a folder debian/timelapse/usr/bin which contains the executable
<jmarsden> DexterLB: Yes, but I think what slytherin is saying is that debuild doesn't know it should package those files, until you tell it to do so.
<jmarsden> By listing usr/bin/whatever in a file named debian/install
<DexterLB> aaah
<DexterLB> so I create a file debian/install containing "debian/timelapse ."
<DexterLB> or "debian/timelapse/usr/bin/timelapse usr/bin/timelapse" for file-specific
<jmarsden> DexterLB: No, containing   the one line   /usr/bin/timelapse        if that is the file you are packaging.
<DexterLB> I'll try
<jmarsden> Sorry, make that usr/bin/timelapse, no leading / if I remember rightly.
<DexterLB> yeah
<DexterLB> ok
<gaspa> dholbach: around? have you a moment?
<DexterLB> did it, built, same error :(
<dholbach> gaspa: yep
<gaspa> warp10 and I have a question for you ;)
<dholbach> sure
<gaspa> dholbach: we're in #6had, just to not bother this channel... k?
<DexterLB> rules: http://pastebin.com/m772a1040
<DexterLB> control: http://pastebin.com/mbebecd0
<DexterLB> changelog: http://pastebin.com/m42a68215
<Rocha> good morning
<Rocha> i want to file a bug report for rhythmbox and i can't because i'm behind a proxy server
<Rocha> how should i file the bug?
<Rocha> the "report a problem" from the help menu doesn't support proxy
<micahg> Rocha: ubuntu-bug?
<Rocha> i suppose ubuntu-bug uses apport
<Rocha> and apport doesn't support proxy
<Rocha> but i'll try anyway
<Rocha> micahg: yes, i'm correct, it doens't work
<Rocha> i filed the bug to rhythmbox's bugzilla
<micahg> Rocha: instructions for manually filing are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<Rocha> i just wanted to report that rhythmbox can't get track names if you're behind a proxy
<Rocha> micahg: i've already read that
<micahg> obviously not
<micahg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20bugs%20at%20Launchpad.net
<Rocha> sorry, i really missed that
<micahg> :)
<slytherin> Rocha: may be the problem is with your proxy
<Rocha> i'll get the source for rhythmbox to see if i can fix the bug
<Rocha> slytherin: i suppose the protocol is the same for all proxies
<Rocha> if other applications work, rhythmbox should work too
<Rocha> i'm using a web based chat client throught proxy using firefox
<Rocha> i've just found a bug in gnome-panel also
<Rocha> i hope this bug is easy to fix
<Rocha> unfortunately rhythmbox is coded in C
<Rocha> i don't know why people insist on using C for desktop applications
<Rocha> slytherin: i just installed banshee and it gets the track names, so it's really lack of proxy support in rhythmbox
<serialorder> I am looking at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html and I am wondering why there are FTBFS for superseded packages, anyone care to explain?
<wgrant> serialorder: Those are packages that failed to build in the rebuild archive, but were subsequently superseded by packages in the primary archive.
<wgrant> serialorder: Most likely making the results unuseful.
<serialorder> i guess i am trying to figure out why we would care that they FTBFS if they have been superseded by a newer version? Unless I misunderstand supersede?
<Laney> That was the archive as at 09/09/09
<Laney> things may have changed since then
<serialorder> oh so its not the package that has been superseded its the build?
<serialorder> its not that a new upstream version has come out but that there has been a new build process
<jdong> ugh
<jdong> I'm a bit upset with bug 216398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216398 in dosemu "default mmap_min_addr breaks dosemu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216398
<jdong> did we really SRU dosemu to set mmap_min_addr back to 0 for the *entire system*?
<jdong> maybe I should SRU a firegpg package to rm /etc/init/apparmor.conf because it prevents accessing my GnuPG keys.
<jdstrand> jdong: /etc/init/apparmor.conf... I don't have that file?
<jdong> whatever file stops apparmor from loading at boot.
<jdstrand> jdong: you are referring to mmap_min_addr still? that is a sysctl value and nothing to do with apparmor
<jdong> it would've at least been nice to have a postinst warning dialog that installing dosemu will defeat a security feature
<jdong> jdstrand: apparmor was just an example for another security feature on by default
<jdstrand> jdong: firegpg is for firefox?
<jdstrand> jdong: the firefox apparmor profile is not enabled by default
<jdong> ok forget that example
<jdong> I also do not see a motu-sru ACK on the bug
<falktx> i've something to ask to you, motu guys
 * jdstrand finally gets jdong's point
<falktx> i've written a software some time ago
<falktx> what do I need to do to make it go to Lucid universe?
<jdong> it would seem like wine does the same
<jdstrand> jdong: so, I think kees had some ideas for mmap_min_addr on a per application basis (dosemu and wine are the two I know of)
<jdong> jdstrand: yeah, that's what I would've expected to be the solution in the first place...
<jdstrand> jdong: I don't recall off-hand what he had in mind, but it requires changes to the system iirc
<jdstrand> jdong: it isn't possible atm
<jdong> understood
<jdstrand> but there might be a way to do it
<jdong> I think particularly for something like dosemu, should a user be told "Installing this will defeat a security feature put in place to prevent a recent class of root exploits from reoccuring"....
<jdstrand> jdong: for some reason, I want to say it actually *does* have something to do with apparmor...
<jdong> the user might not want the package anymore
<jdstrand> it is starting to come back now
<jdstrand> I think jj and kees thought we might be able to add a feature to AA that would allow you to specify the mmap_min_addr in the profile somehow
<jdstrand> and override the system default
<jdong> ah cool
<jdong> SELinux currently has this capability, right?
<jdstrand> so dosemu and wine could conceivably have a very lenient profile that changes the mmap_min_addr
<jasonix> hi all - just getting started here - excited about ubuntu - checked out the contributing wiki - so, first, do I simply start with BugSquad???
<jdstrand> jdong: it has something like this, but it caused them some grief not too long ago
<falktx> no one cares about me?
<kklimonda> btw, why was apparmor chosen over selinux? I can't seem find a good rationale anywhere
<jdstrand> jdong: it would obviously have to be done right so that it didn't introduce any holes and couldn't be circumvented
<Pici> !newpackage | falktx
<ubottu> falktx: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<jdstrand> kklimonda: wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmor
<jdong> ah, right
<jdong> they had SELinux and mmap_min_addr patches fighting over the LSM hook
<jdong> lol that's actually a bit morbidly funny :)
<Pici> falktx: That should get you started. (I'm not a developer, so if you have any more specific questions, I'm afraid I probably can't help)
<jdong> falktx: NewPackages has a good procedure for this. As a developer, I'll say that packaging it yourself is probably the fastest way to get it done
<Rocha> i think ubuntu should come with banshee as the default music player
<jdong> sitting around and/or filing "please package my cool app" bugs might have a very slow turnaround
<micahg> jaytheblogger: depends what you want to do
<jaytheblogger> well, I'm interested in getting more games packaged into Ubuntu - possibly becoming a MOTU developer as well
<micahg> Rocha: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice
<kklimonda> Rocha, there are still bugs in banshee that have to be fixed before it can be used as a default player
<jaytheblogger> I read about the Debian games team, is that where most of that development work is done ?
<falktx> I'm filling a bug report needs-packaging now
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/471081
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 471081 in ubuntu "QtSixA not in the ubuntu repos" [Undecided,New]
<Rocha> kklimonda: rhythmbox doesn't work in my environment so i have to use banshee
<jaytheblogger> micahg: the games team seems to be more of a marketing and promotion team than development
<micahg> jaytheblogger: in Ubuntu, yes
<jaytheblogger> micahg: so who decides what games get included with ubuntu ? is it that team ?
<micahg> jaytheblogger: idk, I would think whatever is in Debian + whatever people package here
<jaytheblogger> micahg: so as a newbie, can I package a game for Ubuntu that hasn't been packaged before ?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> but there's a process
<falktx> changed description - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/471081
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 471081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] QtSixA - The Sixaxis Joystick Manager" [Undecided,New]
<jaytheblogger> micahg, right, I'm sure - there's a certain way to do it, a review process, etc.
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<falktx> i already have a valid debian source package (used in my PPA)
<falktx> what should be my next move?
<falktx> wait for approval?
<jaytheblogger> micahg: OK, I will take a look at that - and packaging new stuff counts towards me eventually becoming a MOTU developer ?
<falktx> or is there something I can do to speed-up?
<falktx> i'm seeing REVU
<falktx> I think I'm close...
<jaytheblogger> micahg: OK, I will take a look at that - and packaging new stuff counts towards me eventually becoming a MOTU developer ?
<directhex> yes
<micahg> jaytheblogger: idk, I'm not a MOTU, I just try to answer what questions I can
<jaytheblogger> OK, sorry - thanks for your help
<falktx> I already uploaded to REVU
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek kicking off in 1 minute in #ubuntu-classroom
<kklimonda> thanks for reminding :)
<bddebian> Heya folks
<falktx> REVU page - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qtsixa
<falktx> can someone review it?
<falktx> I'm not with high hopes for this, but I though I should try
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<falktx> is there a motu that can help me, please....'
<falktx> ?
<falktx> patience is a virtude
<mok0> falktx: you can start by fixing the warning/notices given on revu's page
<falktx> "This package has no debian/watch file or get-orig-source rule"
<falktx> what does that mean?
<mok0> falktx: you need a debian/watch file
<mok0> falktx: "man uscan"
<falktx> still don't get it
<falktx> what does the watch file does?
<joaopinto> falktx, http://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch
<gaspa> quadrispro: double personality?
<quadrispro> lol
<mok0> falktx: the watch file enables an automatic check to see if a new version of the tarball has appeared
<mok0> falktx: ... it is used by uscan, that can also initiate a download of the new version
<mok0> falktx: To test, do: uscan --report-status
<falktx> the debian wiki page was very useful, thanks
<falktx> fixed now
<falktx> everything fixed now
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qtsixa
<mok0> falktx: thx, now it's ready for review :-)
<falktx> what do I need to do next?
<falktx> just wait?
<mok0> Yes
<mok0> falktx: I will review it now
<falktx> thanks
<mok0> falktx: I'm having problems with my sbuilder that I need to work out first :-(
<falktx> no prob
<falktx> how much time do you think you'll take?
<falktx> 1 hour is enough?
<mok0> falktx: yeah, I'll post the review later tonight
<falktx> i'll check tomorrow
<falktx> thanks for helping me
<mok0> falktx: that'll be fine!
<mok0> falktx: np
<falktx> see ya
<kklimonda> james_w, have a moment for another question? Why aren't svn tags imported to launchpad repository? for example when I check out transmission bzr repository I only get trunk and bzr tags returns nothing.
<james_w> lp:transmission?
<kklimonda> yes
<james_w> I'm not sure why
<kklimonda> should I ask on #launchpad ?
<jpds> kklimonda: I don't think bzr supports svn tags.
<jpds> kklimonda: Try #bzr.
<mok0> Arggh, I need some help... I had problems with dbus not being configured in my karmic schroot environment, so I logged in and removed it (didn't think dbus was relevant in the schroot) but now it has bricked my _workstation_?!!? The LVM logical volume has gone
<mok0> When I boot I end up in the initramfs
<highvoltage> good evening
<ari-tczew> hello highvoltage
<highvoltage> heya ari-tczew
<MsMaco> jdong: ping last comment on bug 415766
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/415766)
 * MsMaco smacks ubottu 
<jdong> MsMaco: haha look in #ubuntu-devel? :)
<stevecrozz> I'm trying to build a php package and I'm getting an error I don't understand libtool: 6624: cannot create sapi/apache2handler/mod_php5.loT: Directory nonexistent
<stevecrozz> I get this after apt-get source php5, then dpkg-buildpackage
<soren> ScottK: When I upload python-mhash, I think you mentioned someone to talk to if I wanted it sponsored into Debian.. Who might that have been?
<ScottK> soren: POX on #debian-python on OFTC
<soren> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> No problem.
<MsMaco> win 23
<fabrice_sp> Hi. For SRU, even if the package is in Universe, according to the wiki page, we subscribe ubuntu-sru. Is that new?
<fabrice_sp> wasn't is motu-sru before?
<jdong> fabrice_sp: it's eventually a part of the archive reorg that the two SRU teams harmonize into one big happy family...
<jdong> was unaware it was happening so soon
<fabrice_sp> oh: the archive reorg. You're right
<DktrKranz> no more motu-sru?
<fabrice_sp> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates, no
<DktrKranz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?action=diff&rev2=137&rev1=136
<ari-tczew> 65  active members
<ari-tczew> All members shows 4 users
<ari-tczew> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+members
<jdong> ari-tczew: from registry administrators
<jdong> either that or colin and martin count as 30 people each
<jdong> I'd believe that as well!
<ari-tczew> if this change will improve better SRU's management, it's ok
<ari-tczew> SRU process so far has been a long and complicated
<jdong> ari-tczew: the change only makes sense when the archive reorg happens
<jdong> ari-tczew: well, in what way is it long and complicated?
<jdong> unfortunately given the previous lessons we've had to learn the hard and bad way... the current procedure is the minimum required complexity for thoroughness
<ari-tczew> previous SRU's procedure looked such as: file a bug (request for SRU), complete information (OK), subscribe one team, add tag, subscribe second team, remove tag, etc...
<ari-tczew> and in result I need spamming motu-sru's members on their private mails to any move for my request
<jdong> ari-tczew: we don't really mind the "spam" -- in fact I'd rather at any point in time know exactly what's going on with regards to SRU's and potential SRU's.
<soren> How long does it usually take before a bug submitted to the Debian BTS turns up in the web interface or I get a confirmation e-mail?
<av`> ~1 hour or more
<DktrKranz> soren: it took longer these days because of some spam backlog, it should be quicker now
<soren> Oh, ok. Lovely. It's only been 20 minutes so far, so everything is probably fine. Thanks!
<DktrKranz> it took ~ 20 min to me
<ajmitch> soren: did you attach with the mail the required food for the hamsters to process it?
<soren> ajmitch: Is that what normal people call a GPG signature? :)
<ajmitch> no, the hamsters that run the mail servers
<ajmitch> poor little things get tired out so eaily :)
<ajmitch> s/eaily/easily/
<DktrKranz> soren: if you need a sponsor for your python-mhash ITP, feel free to ping.
 * POX considers turning fast mode on (in order to collect another sponsoree ;)
 * DktrKranz sits down and let POX to rule :)
<POX> DktrKranz: well, even fast mode will not help as I have to change one of mine packages in order to upload one of packages
<DktrKranz> heh
 * ajmitch needs to catch up with whatever the current rules are on python packaging 
<POX> (sponsoree already tested my patch, so using fast mode will be hard)
<soren> POX: Oh, you're in here as well :) That's convenient.
<ajmitch> 'fast mode'?
<POX> 'fast mode' == find one serious bug and reply to the RFS mail
<ajmitch> aha :)
<Darxus> So, some people on the motu list are upset that Canonical made an arbitrary decision reguarding Ubuntu?
<soren> POX: Which e-mail should I send the RFS e-mail to?
<soren> Darxus: Which decision?
<POX> soren: piotr@debian.org
<Darxus> Subject: Re: SÃ¸ren Hansen and Michael Bienia
<soren> POX: Cool. On its way.
<ajmitch> soren: I'm guessing the discussion over the MC extension
<ajmitch> which turned into more of a discussion about communication
<soren> Darxus: That was not CAnonical. It was the CC and DMB.
<Darxus> Oh, what are CC and DMB?
<soren> Darxus: Community Council and Developer Membership Board.
<Darxus> Ah.
<soren> POX: Sent. Thanks in advance.
<Darxus> Really sounds like people mistook Ubuntu for a democracy.
<joaopinto> Darxus, you should re-read that thread, producing incorrect statements on the channel does not improve communication
<joaopinto> Darxus, oh sorry, that was question, no, that is not correct, if you seek further clarification read the thread
<randomaction> It's a pity, looks like sistpoty was really disappointed :(
<JontheEchidna> oh, so that's why I was getting so many ubuntu-motu digests
<KurtKraut> I've made a rather complex shell script that I want to distribute to Ubuntu users. Making a .deb package is quite a rocket science, a thing more complex then my script itself. Autopackage.org seems to be abadoned. Any suggestion on ways to distribute software to Linux?
<RAOF> KurtKraut: How many files is the shell script?
<KurtKraut> RAOF, currently 2.
<Darxus> That's not "a shell script" :P
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, list it somewhere and provide instructions how to get it with wget ?
<jdong> eh a simple deb file doesn't have to be rocket science here
<jdong> as long as you don't care for packaging policy it should be a 5 minute job
 * jdong watches the MOTU police swarm his dorm
<RAOF> Agreed.  You're in the wrong channel for a simple deb file to be rocket science :)
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, it is not a stand alone script. It has many dependencies. Distributing with a simple wget would force me to implement in the script all dependency check and upgrade system.
<Darxus> KurtKraut: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<RAOF> jdong: Surely you've got a better work flow than that!  It wouldn't take me more than 5 minutes to make a policy-conformant package of a simple shell script! :P
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, just add: sudo apt-get install blah blah, to your instructions ;)
<KurtKraut> Darxus, I've read this guide and tried to use the examples provided, even copy & pasting it and it never works. I always get stuck to something.
<jdong> KurtKraut: well asking a specific question will likely help you get un-stuck
<jdong> I do think a simple deb is the proper way to do this
<jdong> RAOF: well you're all magical :)
<RAOF> Possibly because all the examples are going to include lots of steps that your shell script won't need at all.
<Darxus> You could make a 1 line install script and run it through checkconfig :)
<jdong> RAOF: I was thinking more of someone in KurtKraut's situation
<KurtKraut> RAOF, that's one problem indeed but I skip all steps that aimed to compiling.
<KurtKraut> I'll try making a .deb again and I'll ask a specific question when I get stuck.
<jdong> sounds like a good way to go :)
<Darxus> Yeah.
<KurtKraut> A first problem: dh_make -e your.maintainer@address (as shown in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete)
<KurtKraut> It is asking me:
<KurtKraut> Type of package: single binary, indep binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module, kernel patch or cdbs?
<KurtKraut>  [s/i/m/l/k/n/b]
<KurtKraut> -
<KurtKraut> The last attempt I did I picked up 'indep binary'. Is that right for a shell script?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, just: dh_make -c gpl -b  , it will be more simple for what you need
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, ok. Proceeding.
<KurtKraut> dh_make generated me a ../debian/control. Should I edit the 'Depends:' value manually?
<azeem> KurtKraut: maybe
<KurtKraut> azeem, it is already filled with 'Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}'
<azeem> what else do you need?
<KurtKraut> azeem, should I keep it and add the dependecies I know at the end?
<azeem> which are?
<KurtKraut> azeem, libnotify-bin, fping, dash, curl
<azeem> yes
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, change the binary package archicture from Any to All, since it's a shell script
<joaopinto> it's arch independent
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, okay
<KurtKraut> One of my dependencies are libnotify-bin. It's current version is 0.4.5-1ubuntu1. How should I place it in 'Depends:' on contro file? libnotify-bin (>=0.4.5-1ubuntu1) ?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, versions are not mandatory, if you are not sure it works with previous version, yes, set whatever it was tested with
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, that's the approach I want to do: put the minimum tested versions
<KurtKraut> Ok, control file done. Now the rules file... what should I put on it since it is a shell script?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, you just need
<joaopinto> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<joaopinto> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, there is a 'include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk' also, added by dh_make. Should I remove this line?
<joaopinto> the debhelper.mk rules will call dh_install,dh_installdirs which is all you need
<joaopinto> yes, that one is to use with "Makefile"
<joaopinto> which you don't have :)
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, ok. My package will contain two files: pomamonitor.sh and pomamonitor.conf - I'd like pomamonitor.conf to be kept in ~/.pomamonitor. What place should pomamonitor.sh be installed? /usr/bin?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, you don't install files into user's home dir from a .deb package
<joaopinto> creating config files is a role for the app/script, not for the install process
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, hm, ok.
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, So where do I place pomamonitor.sh?
<joaopinto> as for pomamonitor.sh, yes, usr/bin is fine
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, and how I ser /usr/bin as its place?
<KurtKraut> *how do I set
<joaopinto> first edit your debian/dirs
<joaopinto> those are the dirs that the package should create, keep only or add the one you need
<joaopinto> then create a debian/install
<joaopinto> there you list the files that will be intalled by the dh_install command
<joaopinto> the format is: source destination
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete told me to delete the dirs file and: 'At this point, you should have only changelog, compat, control, copyright, and rules files in the debian directory.'
<joaopinto> example:  src/pomamonitor.sh usr/bin
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, well, we are not following the guide are we :) ?
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, I was trying to but you're right.
<joaopinto> anyway for usr/bin you can rm debian/dirs, it's created on the existing system for sure :P
<joaopinto> it could be helpful for usr/share/myscripts :P
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, so now I have a dirs file that contains only one line: src/pomamonitor.sh usr/bin
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, is that right?
<joaopinto> no, that was for debian/install
<joaopinto> on debian/dirs you have a single dir per line
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, and in my case, I don't need to have content in debian/dirs because I'll place pomamonitor.sh in /usr/bin, wich certainly already exists, right?
<joaopinto> right
<KurtKraut> okay
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, about  ~/.pomamonitor, you could install an /etc/default/pomamonitor.conf
<joaopinto> however, it would be up to your script, to copy it to the user's home dir on the first run
<joaopinto> and you should use ~/.config/ to be XDG compliant
<RAOF> joaopinto, KurtKraut: Actually, you should use $XDG_CONFIG_DIR to be XDG compliant.
<joaopinto> RAOF, right, I was just describing the default :P
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, I'm thinking of not distributing a .conf file inside the .deb and then use dialog/zenity to ask for user's data on first run and then generate a conf on ~/.pomamonitor on the fly
<joaopinto> ok, that would be another option
<KurtKraut> joaopinto,  so my debian/install file has a single line: src/pomamonitor.sh usr/bin
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, is that right?
<joaopinto> yes
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, ok. So what is the next step?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, debian/copyright
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, rm debian/{*.ex,*.EX,README.*}  (not sure you did it already)
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, yes, I did it already
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, and I finished editing debian/copyright
<joaopinto> ok, now, assuming tour DEB* environment varialbles are properly set
<joaopinto> just: debuild
<Darxus> Somebody should document this :P
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, ... I guess I didn't set any sort of variables. What variables are you talking about?
<joaopinto> DEBEMAIL, DEBFULLNAME
<joaopinto> I believe they are mentioned on the wiki example
<joaopinto> erm wait
<joaopinto> the most importante one was missed
<joaopinto> debian/changelog
<joaopinto> use dci -i/-a to edit it
<joaopinto> ops, dch
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, ok, done
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, and how do I set DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME?
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, export DEBEMAIL=your_email
<joaopinto> those ones should be on your shell profile
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-03
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, done
<joaopinto> now just: debuild, to build the package
<KurtKraut> error :D Puting on a pastebin.
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, http://pastie.org/680844
<joaopinto> I hope is not about a missing GPG key :)
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, dpkg-checkbuilddeps: DependÃªncias de construÃ§Ã£o nÃ£o satisfeitas: cdbs <- pretty clear
<joaopinto> you need to have cdbs installed
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, I'm impressed I didn't had it installed. Sorry for that
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, is it done ? can I go to sleep ?
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, I've forgot I'm using my login ktk2 right now, wich hadn't a PGP key. debuild complained the lack of it and I'm creating one right now.
<joaopinto> it should have created the .deb anyway
<joaopinto> GPG is for the dsc/changes signing, it is not required to build
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, gpg: /tmp/debsign.lBPdAxiz/pomamonitor_0.1-1.dsc: clearsign failed: chave secreta nÃ£o disponÃ­vel
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, indeed, I didn't touch that file
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, do I have to create a .dsc file by hand:
<KurtKraut> ?
<joaopinto> no
<joaopinto> it was created, just not signed
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, er... how can I get this signed? :P
<joaopinto> KurtKraut, why do you want it signed ?
<joaopinto> to have it signed you need the gpg key, the DEBEMAIL, or debuild -kemail
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, oh, I just realised that the .deb was created.
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, I was thinking this was a 'show stopper' error
<joaopinto> but you really don't need it signed unless you plan to upload to a PPA or similar
<joaopinto> ah no :)
<KurtKraut> joaopinto, now you can have the best sleep on Earth because... you did it! You guided such a naive and noob person like me through the process. I appreciate a lot your help.
<KurtKraut> I'd also like to thank Darxus , RAOF, azeem for the attention
<jgoppert1> hey does anyone want to sponsor my libjsw package, it gets the joystick library working by just not dealing with gtk in the jscalibrator program
<jgoppert1> hey i have an automake project i'm trying to package, i'm new to packaging and am not sure if i need to modify the default lib.install file in the debian folder, the deb that results doesn't have the shared libraries in it
<fabrice_sp> jgoppert1, you should modify most of the files generated by dh_make
<LucidFox> "November 5th: Toolchain Conservatively Uploaded"
<LucidFox> As opposed to being uploaded anarchistically? :p
<dholbach> good morning
<ice_cream> hi, why was my beloved slim removed from karmic?
<wgrant> ice_cream: It was unmaintained, so the maintainer requested that it be removed from Debian. We then followed Debian's removal.
<ice_cream> that is sad news =/
<DexterLB> hello
<DexterLB> is there anyone here with some free time who is willing to help?
<DexterLB> please try to dpkg-buildpackage or debuild this: http://scratch-rockets.hobby-site.org/wiki/images/7/75/Timelapse-0.0.1-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<DexterLB> I think it's something only in my system, and I don't want to upload it to the PPA just to see the error...
<joaopinto> DexterLB, better pastebin the error
<DexterLB> ok
<DexterLB> http://pastebin.com/m1885515b
<DexterLB> everything builds fine, the binaries are in place after the "install" (in debian/timelapse/usr/bin/)
<DexterLB> only dpkg-genchanges fails
<DexterLB> I googled this error a lot, I saw it in many logs and many people asking about it on forums but no solutions
<joaopinto> I already got that issue on the past, but I don't remember what was the cause :\
<joaopinto> I think I have just recreated the source dir, and moved debian/* over the new dir
<DexterLB> what do you mean recreate the source dir
<DexterLB> just make a new source dir and move the files to it?
<joaopinto> yes
<DexterLB> how about the -orig folder?
<DexterLB> wait, not folder
<DexterLB> i mean .orig.tar.gz
<DexterLB> I moved everything but the error still exists :(
<DexterLB> I'm sending it to PPA to see if they'll email me the same error :P
<DexterLB> well, not they, it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<proppy> ScottK: Hi, I updated poker-network 1.7.5-2
<proppy> I'll update mentors.debian.net
<proppy> ScottK: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/p/poker-network/ updated
<proppy> will upload it to revu too
<proppy> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/poker-network
<Laney> wgrant: Is there any chance of an MDT instance vs sid? Maybe by a tab/link at the top which defaults to Squeeze?
<mok01> I have a weird problem with a revu package, it pulls in dbus which fails to install in the chroot environment apparently because it interferes with the workstation
<DexterLB> hi
<DexterLB> I've uploaded a package to my ppa
<DexterLB> it's waiting for build, which is schaduled after 17 hours.
<DexterLB> I've found an error in it and I know it won't build.
<DexterLB> If I submit the new version will it cancel the old one's build
<DexterLB> or should I cancel it before that (and how)
<jdong> ppa questions are better in #launchpad
<DexterLB> ah
<DexterLB> ok
<jgoppert> can anyone help me with a debian/ lib.install file
<mok01> jgoppert: what's the problem?
<jgoppert> i'm trying to package opencv and the default file has a bunch of wild cards for the so's and .a, but none of them actually install in the package
<jgoppert> save with my opencv-dev
<mok01> jgoppert: what default file?
<jgoppert> no headers ?
<jgoppert> pastebin!
<jgoppert> oops, damn empathy
<mok01> jgoppert: the install files name is <package>.install
<jgoppert> usr/lib/lib*.so.*
<jgoppert> yeah, and it matches what i put in the control file
<mok01> jgoppert: looks ok
<jgoppert> opencv1
<jgoppert> opencv1.install
<jgoppert> do i have to uncomment dh_install  in the rules?
<mok01> jgoppert: no
<mok01> jgoppert: excuse me, YES
<jgoppert> oh ok, cool
<mok01> jgoppert: dh_install is what reads the file and does what it does
<jgoppert> i thought it said it was just for specific things not covered by the other rules
<jgoppert> oh ok cool
<jgoppert> thanks for the help
<mok01> jgoppert: there are specialized dh_install_* for things like manpages etc
<mok01> jgoppert: dh_install is the "generic" one it can be used for everything, but some of the specialized ones have more intelligence
<jgoppert> yeah i see those, they worked the man etc was in my packages, lol just no libraries
<mok01> jgoppert: should work now
<jgoppert> i'm getting like 6 hours build times on my ppa, does that ever speed up, is it just because karmic was just released?
<mok01> jgoppert: probably
<jgoppert> cool
<mok01> jgoppert: see https://launchpad.net/builders
<mok01> jgoppert: the ppa builders are steaming from work
<jgoppert> yeah it looks like it
<jgoppert> anyways to check whats included in the deb if you just use debuild -S -sa
<mok01> jgoppert: errr debuild? I use less
<jgoppert> well right, but i mean i don't have a .deb
<jgoppert> i just have the changes, dsc, orig tarball, etc
<mok01> jgoppert: ah, well to create the deb, you use debuild -S -sa
<jgoppert> you mean debuild -sa?
<mok01> jgoppert: once it's created, you can view what's inside it using "less"
<jgoppert> i can create it using debuild -sa, i thought the -S told it to just build the source
<ScottK> proppy: Thanks.  I'll try and have a look a little later today.
<jgoppert> i'm also checking it with pbuilder, but is there a way to find what pbuilder built?
<mok01> jgoppert: ah, yes
<proppy> ScottK: np
<jgoppert> does pbuilder get wiped out after its finished?
<mok01> jgoppert: yes
<mok01> jgoppert: that's the whole point :-)
<jgoppert> yeah, i figured, lol, just seems like a pain to have to do debuild -sa check that it has the right stuff, then do pbuilder, then do debuild -sa -S lol, wish there were a more streamlined process
<jgoppert> building opencv takes like 20 minutes :-/
<ScottK> jgoppert: If you want to mess around with stuff you can use pbuilder --login and have an open chroot to try stuff in.
<jgoppert> yeah that might hlep
<jgoppert> can you only have one pbuilder up at a time?
<jgoppert> dh_install: opencv-dev missing files (usr/lib/lib*.a), aborting, oh that sucks, so i guess if it fails to find a wildcard your done for?
<mok01> jgoppert: you can have as many as you want
<jgoppert> moko1: thanks
<mok01> jgoppert: people often have pbuilders for different distros
<jgoppert> moko1: yeah that would be helpful
 * mok01 wanders why he can't do copy-paste in the terminal by double-click / middle mouse
<mok01> after installing karmic
<jgoppert> can someone explain why the lib-dev.install file has /usr/lib/lib*.so,   while the lib1.install has /usr/lib/lib*.so.*  ??
<vanryu> hi, can anyone help me? I wanna package a linux libre version of the ubuntu kernel. Should I use the ubuntu source package of the current kernel as the upstream source?
<geser> jgoppert: lib*.so is the symlink needed during linking while lib*.so.* is the real lib
<jgoppert> oh i see, so on an end user system the symlink isn't needed?
<jgoppert> makes sense i guess
<jgoppert> thanks
<joaopinto> vanryu, isn't the linux kernel package libre ? non libre modules are on their own packages
<vanryu> I mean the privative blobs that are included with the linux kernel. I mean to remove them by using the deblob script of the FSF linux libre project.
<jgoppert> i've got a package who put the .pc in libdir, shouldn't it be datadir
<mok01> jgoppert: the -dev file contains the *.so file only, which is in fact a symbolic link
<jgoppert> moko1: thanks
<geser> pkg-config files should be placed in /usr/lib/pkgconfig/ (like the others)
<mok01> jgoppert: the lib package contains the shared library proper, along with a symbolic link to it, called something like *.so.1
<jgoppert> ok, odd then my default debian install file opencv-dev.install is looking in /usr/share/pkgconfig/*
<mok01> jgoppert: huh?
<mok01> jgoppert: the -dev package should INSTALL a *pc file in the pkgconfig dir
<jgoppert> moko1: i get the so stuff now, i'm jus wondering why my debian install file is trying to install a pkconfig file in /usr/share/pkconfig when it should be /usr/lib/pkgconfig
<mok01> ah
<mok01>   /usr/lib/pkgconfig is what you want
<jgoppert> ok, so i just delete the other then
<jgoppert> opencv-dev install had both /usr/share/pkgconfig/* and /usr/lib/pkconfig/* from dh_make
<mok01> jgoppert: It's redundant
<jgoppert> moko1: thanks
<jgoppert> if you have a package that takes 20 minutes to build are there any tricks of the trade to get the kinks worked out or do you just have to build 20 times before you get the package right
<jdong> hmm
<mok01> jgoppert: if you build the package locally on your machine (i.e. install the build depends) you can call debian/rules directly like this: fakeroot debian/rules build
<jdong> anyone use znc from the repos?
<jdong> I think I just noticed znc-extra doesn't match znc's version; borks loading any of those modules
<jdong> needs a no-src-change-rebuild...
<jdong> (asking for a sanity check from potential ZNC users before I make a fool out of myself XD)
<mok01> jgoppert: then, when you have things compiled, you can re-build the .deb files quickly by doing "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
<jgoppert> moko1: thanks, that helps
<joaopinto> or debuild -nc
<jgoppert> i found out that pbuilder also stores the created debs under /var/cachepbuilder/result, that helped me scan that the right files were there with less
<falktx> back again
<falktx> and still having problems with revu
<falktx> revu upload
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qtsixa
<Legendario> i was loocking for the tor package and could see at packages.ubuntu.com that it left ubuntu on jaunty. Why such a thing happens?
<hyperair> because the author wanted it removed
<hyperair> ubuntu's release schedule was too slow for tor, it seems
<Legendario> hyperair??? too slow??? wht do u mean?
<hyperair> use a little google. i've got a deadline to meet and can't spare the time to dig it up for you, sorry.
<sbalneav> Legendario: http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/Apr-2009/msg00072.html
<hyperair> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tor/+publishinghistory <-- this might be of help as well
<Legendario> sbaneav, it left because it lacked mainteners?
<Legendario> sbalneav, it left because it lacked mainteners?
<Legendario> thanks a lot guys
<Laney> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> that fresh lucid smell
 * Laney does some merges
<sebner> Laney: smells like old, dirty testing to me :P
<Laney> hah
<Laney> you were always the sync the latest crack king
<sebner> Laney: the best you can do ;)
 * JontheEchidna wonders how many uploads we'll get before auto-sync kicks in
 * geser should get the ubuntu-dev-tools SRU done before sebner starts filing sync requests :)
<JontheEchidna> hehe
<Laney> clearly everyone should run u-d-t out of bzr ;)
<ajmitch> geser: so is there a documented way to tell it to sync from unstable for those packages that need it?
<Laney> ajmitch: -d unstable
 * Laney just did this
<ajmitch> ta
<ajmitch> I guessed there would be something obvious, I just haven't caffeinated yet today :)
<Laney> I should hope it's in the manpage
<geser> -d     Specifies which Debian distribution a package should be synced from.  Default is testing. (man requestsync)
<Laney> \o
 * Laney knocks some more merges off
<ajmitch> geser: I had just looked in the manpage & missed it
<ajmitch> even though it's right there in plain sight
<geser> ajmitch: the changed default is currently only in bzr. requestsync from karmic needs currently "-d testing" to do the right thing for lucid
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> & I see the announcement about MoM being only against unstable at this stage
<micahg> ajmitch: I saw something about that being a possible SRU in karmic (requestsync)
<ajmitch> micahg: yes, that's what geser is doing now
<micahg> ah :)
<ajmitch> before the hordes descend & start requesting syncs
 * micahg needs to made sure to scroll up :)
<fabrice_sp> already 6 sync requests waiting for sponsorship...
<fabrice_sp> so the hordes are already here! :-)
 * ajmitch wonders whether sponsored syncs should have some justification for syncing from unstable
<Laney> yes please
<ajmitch> I see most of the syncs filed so far are from squeeze
<ajmitch> & the one other I can spot (bug #472936) is requesting a version that's in squeeze anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 472936 in dar "Please sync dar 2.3.9-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472936
<Laney> heh
<Laney> that's an old version of requestsync
<Laney> we haven't had "Please" for a while
<sebner> Laney: would you mind doing MD?
<ajmitch> Laney: but it's so polite
<Laney> sebner: I already synced it
<sebner> Laney: ah great, didn't notice
<Laney> you should get the other place on your perform...
<Laney> ajmitch: mok0 complained that we were being too nice ;)
<Laney> (I think it was him)
<ajmitch> maybe there should be some big DO IT NOW! in the mail then
<Laney> well more that it took up space in the title, the body is still nice
<geser> ajmitch: and name the option --lamont?
<ajmitch> geser: I don't think he has direct archive access anymore, does he?
<ajmitch> though it wouldn't surprise me if he still does :)
<geser> don't know
 * ajmitch might need to actually fix the rc bugs tracker stuff this cycle
<jgoppert> if i want to create a package that modifies another packages files  (/etc/vim/vimrc) how do I do that
<mok0> Laney: it was me :-)
<mok0> jgoppert: that's not allowed
<jgoppert> ok, for my lab i want to setup vim to autocomplete, how should i do that
<mok0> jgoppert: on many machines?
<jgoppert> mok0: yes
<mok0> jgoppert: perhaps you should consider using something like cfengine
<JontheEchidna> Do fakesyncs from karmic get autosynced this time around?
<Laney> depends what version number they had
<JontheEchidna> It's showing up as "outdated with local changed" in the multidistro tools on qa.ubuntuwire
<ajmitch> JontheEchidna: if there's a newer version from squeeze
<JontheEchidna> 0.10.2-3build1
<ajmitch> JontheEchidna: got an example?
<Laney> fakesyncs are just normal uploads really
<JontheEchidna> smb4k
<Laney> then yes with that one
<JontheEchidna> cool, so then I won't have to bother with a sync request
<Laney> presumably it was a fakesync because the orig md5sum was different though
<jgoppert> mak0: checking it out, thanks
<ajmitch> ok, squeeze & sid have the same version for that
<Laney> so I'd imagine it will break if its not a new upstream
<JontheEchidna> yeah, new upstream release
<Laney> keep an eye on it, but I bet it will be ok
<ajmitch> testing save 0.10.4-1
<ajmitch> silly paste
<ajmitch> 'save' should notbe there, but it's a new upstream version
<Laney> testing why?!
<ajmitch> I remember smb4k being somewhat problematic in the past
<JontheEchidna> ha, one could merge squeeze from squeeze
<ajmitch> Laney: hm?
<Laney> ajmitch: It's an autosync, we don't usually explicitly test those
<ajmitch> Laney: yes, I was pasting from packages.qa.d.o
<Laney> oh
<ajmitch> showing the version in squeeze, nothing more
<Laney> I thought you said that you were testing it ;)
<ajmitch> I'm not that silly
<mok0> My sbuilder stopped working after karmic upgrade. Anyone else experienced something like that?
<fabrice_sp> my sbuild is still working (building with a lucid schroot right now)
<ajmitch> so I guess it's time to update the VM to lucid
<Laney> cowbuilder-lucid doesn't work for me
<Laney> but pbuilder does
<mok0> fabrice_sp:  Hm
<fabrice_sp> mok0, do you get some errors or something?
<mok0> fabrice_sp: the problem has to do with dbus
<mok0> Hang on, I'll pastebin it
<fabrice_sp> strange: sbuild really worked after upgrade. ok
<mok0> http://paste.ubuntu.com/308792/
<mok0> I get this error every time I try to build something
<randomaction> mok0: I had this problem today with dbus in karmic chroot
<fabrice_sp> mok0, did you edit your source chroot before? It seems like something got wrong there. You could perhaps edit it, to delete the 'messagebus' user
<fabrice_sp> a dbus revolution?!
<mok0> fabrice_sp: perhaps. I never touched it
<randomaction> I uninstalled dbus (which killed my X session), reinstalled and it's ok
<fabrice_sp> mok0: dbus does not get installed in any of the build I've done since 2 days (something like 10 to 12)
<fabrice_sp> but I regularly do an apt-get update / apt-get upgrade directly in the karmic-source schroot, so perhpas it fixed something
<mok0> fabrice_sp: deleting the messagebus user doesn't change anything
<mok0> randomaction: I also uninstalled dbus from the schroots
<mok0> randomaction: but it seems to be installed as part of the build
<fabrice_sp> if you are inside the -source chroot. can you try to run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade?
<mok0> fabrice_sp: will do
<mok0> fabrice_sp: apt-get upgrade fails with that same message
<mok0> dbus is "unconfigured" and it tries to configure it
<fabrice_sp> and --reinstall it?
<fabrice_sp> I'll check if I have it in my chroots
<fabrice_sp> is it a karmic schroot or a lucid one?
<mok0> karmic
<mok0> fabrice_sp: I don't have a lucid builder yet
<fabrice_sp> my karmic chroot don't have any dbus installed
<fabrice_sp> I may have deinstalled it, now that I think a bit about it
<mok0> fabrice_sp: I don't know where it comes from. I removed the package now, and the sbuilder works!
<mok0> Strange
<fabrice_sp> may have been pulled as a dependency of another package earlier
<mok0> fabrice_sp: perhaps, but that sound strange, even
<fabrice_sp> yeah :-/
<fabrice_sp> did you noticed that in the source page in Launchpad, Lucid comes at the bottom, below Dapper ? :-) Like here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mixxx
<mok0> fabrice_sp: where did you get the lucid debootstrap?
<ajmitch> mok0: probably just another symlink :)
<fabrice_sp> mok0, I used only mk-sbuild-lv with lucid, and it worked
<mok0> fabrice_sp: under karmic?
<mok0> ajmitch: :-)
<ajmitch> mok0: have a look in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts, most new release scripts are just a symlink
<mok0> ajmitch: ah, yes, I now remember fooling around with that earlier
<fabrice_sp> mok0, yes
<mok0> Ah, so it's part of the karmic package now. Nice
 * mok0 wants a lucid builder too... 
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<soren> fabrice_sp: That list is sort alphabetically according to the version string. ("10.04" < "6.06"). There's a bug open about it :)
<fabrice_sp> oh, right :-)
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> soren: does that mean the 6.06 release and forward are renamed to the correct zero-prepended 06.06 ? ;-)
<mok0> upto and including 9.10 -> 09.10
<soren> mok0: I suspect the problem will be solved in a sensible way.
<soren> mok0: So answer your question: Probably not :)
<mok0> heh
<mok0> Well when that is fixed we'll be in good shape untill year 2100
<fabrice_sp> is there an automatic way to get a debdiff between latest Debian version and previous one?
<soren> fabrice_sp: Launchpad provides this.
<fabrice_sp> with Debian version? ofr example, between -1 and -1.1?
<soren> fabrice_sp: Oh, sorry.
<soren> fabrice_sp: No.
<soren> fabrice_sp: For that, you need: http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/debian/
 * soren wanders off
<fabrice_sp> cool: that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks soren!
<soren> fabrice_sp: Sur e thing.
<Laney> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35052003/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gtk2hs_0.10.1-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laney> what's up with that?
<Laney> worked on amd64/lpia/ppc
<RAOF> Laney: Oooh!
<Laney> hey RAOF!
<RAOF> Laney: Because binary-indep will only be called on i386, and that's the target that's failing?
<Laney> How was the wedding?
<Laney> yeah I don't see an error though
<RAOF> The wedding was awesome!
<Laney> \o
<Laney> congrats
<RAOF> Laney: http://paste2.org/p/497568
<Laney> aha
<Laney> nice and buried
<RAOF> Yup.  And not immediately fatal.
<RAOF> Any particular reason it feels the need to call dh_clean twice?
<geser> don't the buildds build in parallel now?
<Laney> I built the arch:all package locally too and it worked
<Laney> bah
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: pull-debian-version in u-d-t
<randomaction> that should be pull-debian-debdiff
<wgrant> Laney: Definitely. I'm busy with exam stuff until Monday, so after then it should appear.
<Laney> awesome, thanks
<vizeke> Hi everybody, I'm new in here. I just want to help making Ubuntu better. I'm graduated in Computer Science with a good work experience. What should be my first steps? I'm reading the MOTU/Contributing and Patching Guide... thank you
<Nafai> Where is the appropriate place to ask questions about creating a PPA?
<micahg> Nafai: #launchpad
<Nafai> Thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-04
<vizeke> anyone can help me?
<micahg> vizeke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
<vizeke> lol... thank you again
<micahg> vizeke: sorry, I'm not a MOTU, I just answer what I can
<micahg> they're probably busy getting ready for the next round of packaging for Lucid
<vizeke> yeah...
<MTecknology> !search bzr-bookmark
<ubottu> Found:
<wrapster> i get this error while apt-get update...
<wrapster>  http://pastie.org/682862
<wrapster> can anyone pls look into it..
<wgrant> wrapster: That seems like a Nexenta support question -- certainly not an Ubuntu development question.
<wrapster> wgrant: yeah i know.. but i though it has got something to do with apt-get and thats why i asked..
<wrapster> sorry about that
<wgrant> It's nothing to do with apt-get.
<hypercube> I think I've got an Ubuntu development question...
<hypercube> Um, well, I guess I'll just ask.  So I'm trying to get started with patching bugs.  Looking at the example at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<hypercube> I'm on Karmic, and when I do apt-cache show xicc, I notice that the Maintainer field is already set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers
<hypercube> But, when I apt-get source xicc...
<wgrant> That's some magic performed by Launchpad when the package is built.
<wgrant> The maintainer address is overridden, to avoid inappropriately attributing packages to their Debian maintainers.
<hypercube> OK, so on that page they say when we make a patch we should update the Maintainer field
<hypercube> but is that still necessary if launchpad does it for us?
<wgrant> Launchpad will override the Maintainer field of the *binaries*.
<wgrant> We need to manually override it for the sources that we modify.
<hypercube> OK... I think I understand.  If there had been an ubuntu specific patch already, then the source i get through apt-get source would have the maintainer field already modified, and I wouldn't have to modify it, right?
<wgrant> that's how it should be, yes.
<wgrant> Occasionally somebody forgets to change it, however.
<hypercube> ok, i guess it's good to check every time
<hypercube> thanks!
<wgrant> hypercube: There is an update-maintainer (I think that's it?) script to do it for you as required.
<porthose> hypercube, check out ubuntu-dev-tools :)
<hypercube> thanks, the wiki also mentioned update-maintainer.  just wanted to make sure i understood what's going on.
<dholbach> good morning
<porthose> dholbach, good morning :) Do you know if there will be a GPG key signing party at UDS?
<dholbach> porthose: last time slangasek organised one
<slangasek> aw man
<slangasek> somebody else should do it this time :)
<LucidFox> How do I make dch add new entries as lucid rather than karmic?
<StevenK> LucidFox: -D lucid, from dch(1)
<LucidFox> I mean automatically.
<LucidFox> By default.
<geser> LucidFox: edit dch and update the default for Ubuntu
<dholbach> change it in devscripts? :)
<LucidFox> Okay.
<Unggnu> hi all
<Unggnu> There is a package firefox-3.6 in the repository in Karmic. Is it planned to ship the 3.6 final after its release or is it just bogus?
<micahg> Unggnu: there is no firefox-3.6 package in karmic
<Unggnu> micahg, It has no package but if I enter "sudo apt-get install firefox" and press tab two times it is shown
<micahg> Unggnu: do you have the ubuntu mozilla daily repo?
<Unggnu> micahg, no
<micahg> well, it won't install
<Unggnu> micahg, I know, it has no packages associated but it is shown, even in an untouched VM of Karmic
<Unggnu> that's why I am asking if there will be one :)
<Unggnu> like in Jaunty with 3.5
<micahg> well, it depends on what's decided about how firefox will be supported in stable releases
<micahg> Unggnu: it most likely will not be through a firefox-3.6 package
<Unggnu> micahg, ok, thx
<LucidFox> Laney, the changelog for f-spot says "fakesync from Debian", but I don't see 0.6.1.4 in Debian. Is it from svn.debian.org?
<directhex> ooh, a LucidFox
<Laney> LucidFox: yeh
<Laney> yeah, from git
<Laney> unexpected transition stuff delayed it
<LucidFox> directhex> Now I'll have to clarify to everyone that I had this username long before the naming of Ubuntu 10.04. :)
<directhex> LucidFox, i wondered whether you were back with us to work on your namesake ;)
<LucidFox> Back? I never left, it's just that my activity and interest fluctuate.
<LucidFox> Right now I look at REVU and see packages untouched since the beginning of the year, and weep.
<mok0> Karmic is getting a bad rap in El Reg: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
<LucidFox> I'm tempted to just send all REVU packages for jaunty to the "needs work" bin.
<LucidFox> Ah, the old kernel. A friend of mine had that problem.
<mok0> More bad press: http://www.thelatestnews.in/another-failure-of-linuxâs-karmic-koala/21261.html
<LucidFox> "Linux's Karmic Koala"
<mok0> Heh
<mok0> Dunb
<mok0> Well imho we need a revision of the semi-annual release dogma
<LucidFox> I'm actually tempted to do a clean reinstall to hopefully get rid of small issues that have been bugging me in Karmic gradually updated from the unstable version since beta.
<LucidFox> Like sound sometimes being off at start.
<mok0> LucidFox: I've thought about doing the same thing
<directhex> i've found karmic to be a pretty solid release. the bad press confuses
<mok0> directhex: bad press is bad press
<soren> Curiously, a friend of mine who's usually quite the problem magnet upgraded to Karmic and for the first time, everything works on his system. The upgrade was painfree and everything Just Works[tm].
<directhex> i'm happy with karmic
<mok0> Well, what can I say? Karmic is getting bad press. Perhaps it's unfair, but it's a fact
<soren> I don't know.. It's getting kind of old. :)
<directhex> I: Distribution is lucid.
<directhex> I: Building the build environment
<mok0> Linux used to be treated as "a hobbyist OS" by the press. Now they take us seriously, and we're being held to the same standards as MS and Apple, which is good
<mok0> IMO the semi-annual releases worked well for a while when it came to defining Ubuntu, but that dogma needs to be revised now
<micahg> the problem isn't the schedule, the problem is we can't get to all the bugs...we need more help
<mok0> micahg:  we have the help we have
<mok0> micahg: where are you going to get it from? Unless you start paying people?
<micahg> no, people are out there that are willing to help, they just don't necessarily know they can
<mok0> micahg: we need more time to get to the bugs :-)
<micahg> mok0: more time = more bugs
<mok0> huh?
<micahg> there will be new/more bugs found with more time
<mok0> micahg: ok, well better to find them and fix them before consumers do
<micahg> unless you freeze the packages in which case, you end up shipping old versions of everything like debian
<micahg> It's a problem with open source in general, not enough peoplepower
<mok0> micahg: the bugs that are being complained about is not bugs in new versions of applications, it's how the OS interacts with hardware
<micahg> but, if people realized that Ubuntu != M$ and people can actually help fix their own issues, we'd be very much ahead
<mok0> micahg: if, if, if :-)
<mok0> micahg: increasingly, Ubuntu is being held to the same standards as MS, with its 10's of thousands of highly paid developers... that's actually impressive
<micahg> indeed
<slytherin> Does anyone know if our buildd are ready for source format version 3?
<micahg> Ubuntu kernel team has 30 members and 9k bugs of which 5k are new
<mok0> They used to dismiss Linux as a toy OS
<micahg> it's not surprising we can't keep up with the HW
<mok0> slytherin: there was a message about that somewhere... in Debian
<mok0> micahg: well, vendors are getting aware that they can avoid the MS tax
<slytherin> mok0: I am talking about Ubuntu buildd.
<mok0> slytherin: I know
<mok0> slytherin: but someone wrote that it worked in Sid
<mok0> slytherin: so it shouldn't be far off
<slytherin> hmm
<mok0> micahg: Re: getting more hands, perhaps making sure the ones we have stay on would be one important first step
<mok0> micahg: as I see it, we are bleeding devs because ppl become frustrated and worn-out
<mok0> The lack of communication from top to bottom is one important reason
<mok0> There's all this rumor about archive re-organization and dissolving the MOTU team but nobody knows anything about it, and it's not discussed
<micahg> mok0: yeah, that would be important
<micahg> mok0: we already have the best community support and the best build infrastructure in the FOSS world AFAIK, it should only be a matter of time before more people start helping
<hyperqbe> Hi all, I'm a wannabe developer, going through the docs right now.  I'm currently on karmic.  If I want to do bug fixes, I'm going to have to move to lucid, is that right?
<mok0> micahg: Hmm
<\sh> micahg, the best build infra has opensuse ;)
<mok0> hyperqbe: no, you can work with any supported release
<directhex> slytherin, no worky. i asked yesterday
 * mok0 is looking forward to format 3
<directhex> opensuse has some things we don't in its infrastructure. crucially, there's susestudio, and there's the opensuse build service's multi-distro support (ppa's are ubuntu-only)
<hyperqbe> mok0: ok, so if i make a patch in karmic, but they're not gonna release it until lucid, they'll be able to apply my patch?
<slytherin> directhex: So that means the packages in new format won't build right?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> bug 293106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293106 in soyuz "does not support debian v3 source formats" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293106
<slytherin> Wow, it is 'In progress'. :-)
<directhex> Laney knew a bug number?
<directhex> this is why he's an international man of mystery
<mok0> hyperqbe: if the bug is important enough to pass the sru team (stable release updates) the fixed package moves to first *-proposed, then *-updates
<mok0> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<hyperqbe> mok0: yeah, i'm just guessing that my first bug is not going to be that important. :)
<mok0> hyperqbe: the main thing when doing an SRU is to patch the bug in the version already present in that release
<mok0> hyperqbe: they are not so keen on package upgrades
<mok0> hyperqbe: so often it's a matter of back-porting a fix
<mok0> hyperqbe: those kinds of bugfixes get accepted without problems
<mok0> hyperqbe: even if they're small :-)
<slytherin> hyperqbe: Any bug with a working and tested patch is important. :-)
<\sh> wasn't there a possibility to copy source packages from ubuntu archive to ppa
<maxb> Kind of
<mok0> \sh: what would be the point of that?
<maxb> the relevant URL was blocked/hidden because it tended to OOPS because there are too many packages in the ubuntu archive
<maxb> mok0: Easier than doing a sourceful backport if you know dependencies aren't an issue
<mok0> ah, yes
<maxb> Or for preserving the last version of something that was removed from karmic
<maxb> which is why I copied sun-java5 into my PPA
<\sh> maxb, how did you do it? somehow I don't see it on edge
<maxb> The url is blocked
<maxb> well, no, it's not, it's just not linked from anywhere
<maxb> However the last time I told someone about it, a Launchpad developer told me off and asked me not to pass it around
<maxb> You could do it via launchpadlib, I believe
<hyperqbe> anyone want to help me review my first debdiff? It's a simple one to add a dependency.
<dholbach> hyperqbe: post the link to it and somebody will have a look :)
<\sh> maxb, anyways....launchpad has still some issues, not displaying lucid
<maxb> I would be entirely unsurprised if Lucid wasn't turned on for PPAs yet
<hyperqbe> ok, here's my debdiff... comments? http://eggiweg.org/scratch/mydebdiff
<rowinggolfer> maxb, lucid is visible in my ppa.
<rowinggolfer> I copied a package there
<\sh> maxb, no it's not shown even for ubuntu on the overview pages of ubuntu packages
<maxb> link pls
<\sh> maxb, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zend-framework
<\sh> i see the latest release on the left, which is now the lucid version i just uploaded...but I don't see lucid itself on the overview
<maxb> \sh: It's there... it's just in a ridiculous order.... look down!
<\sh> micahg, you know that I'M trying to have zend-framework always latest for other releases the latest devel on lp:~zend-framework ;)
<\sh> maxb, oh crap...I don't look for new releases at the bottom ;)
<micahg> \sh: yes, that was when the builders weren't taking forever :)
<slytherin> hyperqbe: What is the reason for adding this dependency? You should mentione that in changelog. The Ubuntu formato for auto closing the bugs is (LP: #xxxxxx).
<micahg> \sh: can I ask you a Q about ZF?
<\sh> micahg, sure :)
<maxb> \sh: I'd regard it as a bug - how about you file it as such?
<micahg> \sh: why don't we ship dojo in zf?
<\sh> micahg, dojo is pita regarding packaging
<micahg> at least until it's packaged
<micahg> pita?
<hyperqbe> slytherin: i mentioned the bug in the changelog using the convention i saw in the rest of the changelog.  I'll change it to say LP: # instead of closed: #
<\sh> micahg, I have packages at hand...but the debian/copyright file is very large...and I don't have the time to get all the used license
<\sh> s
<maxb> hyperqbe: Closes: is Debian's convention, LP: is Ubuntus
<micahg> ah
<slytherin> hyperqbe: The convention you used is Debian's not Ubuntu's
<micahg> \sh: can I help?
<hyperqbe> got it, thanks!  anything else?
<slytherin> hyperqbe: which ubuntu release are you targeting this for? karmic-updates or lucid?
<\sh> micahg, well, sure...always :) dojo consists of more then some .js files...there is a .js compiler which needs to be packages as standalone...
<hyperqbe> slytherin: hehe, well, i have no idea.  I just wanted to fix my first bug... don't really care if it goes into karmic or lucid.
<micahg> ok, well, I'll ping you then when I'm ready to help package it, I filed an LP bug and linked to the debian bug for packaging dojo
<micahg> \sh: ^^
<\sh> micahg, I can send you my initial try version for the package...I think it's already in a good state...just update the dojo version
<slytherin> hyperqbe: If you don't care then probably lucid. So you need to modify the changelog that way.
<micahg> \sh: ok, sure
<hyperqbe> slytherin: so i'm currently running karmic, which is why it showed up as for karmic.  is it recommended to upgrade to lucid to do this right, or can i just change the changelog to say lucid?
<\sh> micahg, give me a sec and I push it into my lp:~shermann ppa ;)
<micahg> do you have a bzr branch?
<slytherin> hyperqbe: Just change the changelog. No one expects you to be running lucid at this point. :-)
<micahg> \sh: no rush, I won't be able to do much with it till next month
<\sh> micahg, if you want I can make you a team member of ~zend-framework :)
<micahg> \sh: if you'd like...I'm happy to push the new versions for you
 * micahg uses it at work
<hyperqbe> slytherin: ok, i reuploaded the diff with those two changes... anything else, or should i just post it to the bug?
<\sh> micahg, nice :) I would just like to copy the latest lucid package to the ppa...if this works out somehow...I'll have to ask on #launchpad
 * micahg also discovered the get-orig-source in there
<\sh> micahg, hehe..was annoyed of removing the externals manually
<micahg> \sh: after you copy that, do you want me to push hardy-jaunty tomorrow?
<micahg> or tomorrow night more specifically?
<\sh> micahg, I hope it's possible to just copy from devel to the other release pockets...if not, we need to do that manually
<\sh> micahg, you should now have ~zend-framework team rights :)
<micahg> \sh: it seems that you can binary copy to another version
<micahg> with the same version number though
<micahg> \sh: I'm going to sleep, I'll check tomorrow night and upload the backported versions if they aren't there for 1.9.5
<\sh> micahg, cool thx :) and good night :)
<slytherin> Why is MoM down? Not all packages in Debian have switched to new source format. So those using old format should still be listed on MoM.
<mok0> slytherin: probably MoM doesn't know about those packages
<mok0> slytherin: there's likely to be a mix of source package formats from now on
<slytherin> mok0: right, but I am assuming it should be easy to simply ignore the packages with new format and show packages that use old format.
<mok0> slytherin: yeah
<mok0> Whoa, over 900 comments in this /. thread http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/11/03/2211231/Some-Early-Adopters-Stung-By-Ubuntus-Karmic-Koala
<mok0> Many are hostile
<directhex> ubuntu's not cool. slashdot's too-cool-for-school crowd run cool distros like arch
<directhex> or is arch unfashionable now?
<mok0> directhex: dunno
<mok0> directhex: I guess you're only really cool if you build your own distro from scratch.
<mok0> Very sober comment here: "Rants replacing Bug reports?" http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1429898&cid=29971656
<LucidFox> And now, time to wait for Debian sponsors to notice my RFS.
<rowinggolfer> Newbie question. I push sources to launchpad, targeted at the intrepid release. They build without fail.
<slytherin> LucidFox: for which package?
<rowinggolfer> openmolar, in my ppa
<rowinggolfer> if I build the packages locally,
<directhex> man, what is it with free software and dentists?
<rowinggolfer> on jaunty or intrepid, they fail to install due to "python-central"
<rowinggolfer> directhex, lol.
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: please do not split your questions on 3-4 lines unnecessarily.
<rowinggolfer> slytherin, sorry.
<directhex> rowinggolfer, python packaging practices tend to change around every now & again
<LucidFox> slytherin> smplayer
<rowinggolfer> directhex, to summarise my question - why do the same sources build working packages when the launchpad bots build them, but not when I do? Do I need to build them on an intrepid machine?
<LucidFox> I uploaded 0.6.8-1 to m.d.n
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: you need to build them in chroot
<slytherin> either pbuilder or sbuild.
<rowinggolfer> not dpkg-buildpackage ?
<directhex> rowinggolfer, if the packasges are for intrepid, they'll likely only build in intrepid (e.g. in an intrepid chroot or VM)
<rowinggolfer> directhex, ok. thanks.
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: dpkg-buildpackage will build for your current system. It will not have correct dependencies for target system (intrepid).
<LucidFox> Trying gnome-shell, it feels... heavy.
<LucidFox> That is, there is noticeable lag in response time.
<rowinggolfer> slythering, directhex - thanks. sorry for the long-winded question.
<rowinggolfer> slytherin, directhex the package build fine in intrepid, and is installed and working. thanks.
<slytherin> LucidFox: yes it is heavy. I reverted to good old two panel setyp. :-)
<LucidFox> Some of the drag and drop is counterintuitive, too.
<directhex> i'm on 1-panel-with-Do
<directhex> not sure i trust things that rely on javascript
<slytherin> and I don't like things that rely on hardware acceleration. That is why I don't have compiz enabled :-)
<mok0> Yay I now have a lucid sbuilder :-D
<ghostcube> hmm who is responsible for the ppc releases
<ghostcube> :)
<ghostcube> i have a bug
<mok0> ghostcube: the ppc release is "unsupported"... which means "community supported"
<mok0> ghostcube: report the bug on LP
<ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-r128/+bug/400864
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 400864 in xserver-xorg-video-r128 "9.04 PPC: r128 does not detect ATI Rage 128 on G3 iMac" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ghostcube> its alreaqdy from another one
<ghostcube> but no decisiions so far
<ghostcube> i wanted to know if its maybe fixed
<ghostcube> in 9.10
<mok0> ghostcube: I see. One is enough :-)
<ghostcube> :)
<mok0> ghostcube: did it *ever* work?
<ghostcube> i tried this first with 9.04 but the one there mentioned it did work flawlessly for him in 8.10
<ghostcube> so i think yes
<mok0> Oh, a regression :-(
<ghostcube> i have this prob since 3 days i get an mac from an friend and wanted to install xubuntu and all works fine exept this r128 modul
<ghostcube> i tried the fixes out in the wild but nothing helped
<mok0> ghostcube: I can understand you're frustrated
<ghostcube> nah not really frustrated i just promised him xubuntu is better than macosx9
<ghostcube> and now iam not able to show him rofl
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> so just interested in if it will be fixable
<ghostcube> :)
<ScottK> ghostcube: Generally TheMuso or NCommander are the two people best to discuss PPC issues with.
<mok0> ghostcube: Hehe. Be careful what you promise. (I 'm also a Mac user)
<ghostcube> hehe
<ghostcube> ScottK: ok thx
<mok0> ScottK: but this looks to be an X issue
<ScottK> mok0: RIght, but if it's PPC specific, I'd start with them.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah I guess
<ghostcube> ok thx for the help guys i will talk to them then :)
<mok0> ghostcube: good luck to you
<ghostcube> thx :) i just started asking in ubuntu-powerpc
<ghostcube> :)
<slytherin> ghostcube: all the ati cards have same module these days.
<slytherin> the driver name is ati.
<ghostcube> slytherin: on pc yes
<ghostcube> on ppc it loads r128
<ghostcube> not ati
<ghostcube> i tried no chance
<slytherin> hmm surprising. But I can not confirm the bug as I have Radeon 9200
<ghostcube> ok this is ati
<ghostcube> for the rage ones there is an own modul
<ghostcube> and this one is making truble somehow and if i disable fb it makes an xorg error for int10 modul
<ghostcube> if i disable it it dosnt take care of disable int10 in xorg.conf
<ghostcube> starts again
<slytherin> ghostcube: have you tried using ati module instead of r128?
<ghostcube> yep
<ghostcube> ati loads then r128 loads
<ghostcube> and ati gets kicked
<ghostcube> i seen in xorg.0.log
<ghostcube> i think some default settings may be wrong inside the modul
<ghostcube> and it cant be changed somehow
<ghostcube> i can update to 9.10 next days i think so
<ghostcube> and look into 9.10
<ghostcube> but this wont fix the jaunty problems for many ones
<slytherin> ghostcube: check the file /etx/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe
<ghostcube> must do if iam back at tis machine
<ghostcube> at work now
<ghostcube> but failsafe doesnt work too
<ghostcube> i cant boot low grafics
<slytherin> ghostcube: what I meant is check if failsafe configuration is forcing r128 module.
<ghostcube> ahhh
<ghostcube> ok i will do :)
<ghostcube> thursday i will be back at the machine
<ghostcube> i tell you then
<ghostcube> so tomorrow
<ghostcube> damn today is wednesday omg
<slytherin> ghostcube: Whatever comments you have add them to the bug.
<ghostcube> slytherin: i will do thx for the suggestions :)
<ingenius1> Hi!
<ingenius> I'm trying to port a debien package to 9.04, when I do "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" ... I have this error -> dh: --with quilt not supported or failed to load module Debian::Debhelper::Sequence::quilt
<mok0> ingenius: it's probably in the new source package format
<ingenius> aha ... and any way to change to old format ?? :)
<mok0> ingenius: if you can unpack the source package, you can always rebuild it in the old format
<mok0> ingenius: you may need to go back to basic unix tools, such as ar etc
<mok0> ingenius: what's the package name?
<ScottK> mok0: It's not the new source format it's needing a newer debhelper
<mok0> ScottK: I see. I haven't played with the new format yet, but I'm curious
<ScottK> The --with-quilt option was introduced after Jaunty.
<mok0> ScottK: on dh ?
<ScottK> mok0: Yes.
<ScottK> I don't recall the version number.
<mok0> ScottK: strange. That ought to require a bump in the compat number
<ScottK> mok0: No, the package bug is to not have a versioned build-depend on a high enough debhelper version.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah ok, that only cements my impression that debian/compat should be abolished
<mok0> ScottK: it's useless if versioned depends are used instead
<sebner> ScottK: quilt 0.46-7, dh 7.0.50
 * mok0 goes looking for a package in format (3.0 quilt)
<wgrant> mok0: quilt itself in sid.
<mok0> wgrant: ah :-) thx
<ingenius> mok0: this one -> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/libsockets/
<mok0> Heh it applies all patches when you dget it
<ingenius> mok0: sorry but this is my first package ...
<mok0> ingenius: np
<mok0> ingenius: but that's not a new style source packagE??
<mok0> ingenius: the .dsc file says: Format 1.0
<ingenius> mok0: yes but in rules file say -> dh ${@} --with quilt
<mok0> ingenius: ah yes... /me is being stupid
<ingenius> sorry but my experience is making packages for gentoo  not for debian ...
<mok0> ingenius: can't you just get rid of the --with-quilt stuff?
<mok0> ingenius: perhaps I'm not too ingenious right now :-)
<ingenius> hahahha
<ingenius> Yes i can erase this --with-quild .. but i have another error ... in 9.10 idont have any problem but  i need it in 9.04 ...
<mok0> ingenius: it has a lot of build dependencies
<ingenius> mok0: yes ...
<mok0> ingenius: try relaxing those
<mok0> ingenius: it might just work
<mok0> wgrant, is 3.0 (bzr) working?
<JontheEchidna> What's the current policy on boost build-depends? Do we still want to specificly build-depend on the 1.38-dev packages?
<Laney> ScottK: ^^^
<wgrant> mok0: No. It's not supported by dpkg or dak, FAIK.
<wgrant> mok0: But it's easy to support once dpkg does.
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: For Karmic, yes
<ScottK> For Lucid, TBD.
<JontheEchidna> ok, I'll maintain the status quo then
<mok0> JontheEchidna: The current boost is 1.40 so unless there are specific reasons to do so, I think we want to not use 1.38
<JontheEchidna> ok, so I should bump it to 1.40 then
<mok0> wgrant: I see
<mok0> JontheEchidna: I think so, for lucid
<ScottK> It'll be at least 1.40, so that's safe
<JontheEchidna> ok, cool
<Laney> what's wrong with using the unversioned one?
<mok0> Laney: it's o.l.d.
<Laney> easily fixed to not be isn't it?
<mok0> Laney: boost is now versioned so they can live side-by-side
<Laney> dunno how they are for backwards compatibility
<ScottK> Laney: My view is that you don't want to change boost versions by accident.
<mok0> Laney: That's exactly the reason. Boost evolves much faster than client apps
<ScottK> Packages need to be rebuilt with the new version anyway, so best to explicitly say which.
<ScottK> In Debian, with binary NMUs, they can point to the new version, rebuild everything, and then see what fails.
<ScottK> In Ubuntu, we have to do sourceful uploads to rebuild anyway, so you may as well pick your boost version.
<mok0> Biggest change in 1.40 is the build system I believe
<Laney> thumbs up, makes sense to me now
<mok0> The scrapped the awful jam build system:)
<mok0> cmake is ... better
<mok0> although it sucks too
<mok0> :)
<JontheEchidna> anything but autohell
<JontheEchidna> and the progress indicators are quite nice too
<mok0> JontheEchidna: I'm a HUGE fan of autotools actually :-)
<JontheEchidna> heh
<mok0> Of course KDE switched to cmake, the basterds
<mok0> scons sucks even worse
<mok0> There. I've said it. Let the flaming begin.
<ScottK> \sh: Any reason you need to keep the Zend stuff in a PPA and we can't do official backports instead?
 * kees agrees with mok0 :)  autotools > cmake > scon. even if autotools hurts
<mok0> It can hurt sure. But it's made up of standard UNIX tools
 * kees nods
<kees> autotools hurts, cmake maims, scon kills. :P
<\sh> ScottK, you can...I don't know the timeframe and what to do to request backports...if it's an automated task, go ahead pls :)
<mok0> :-D
<ScottK> New KDE releases with KDE3 and autofoo was hell.  With KDE4/cmake it's very easy in comparison.
<mok0> ... so, can we upload Format: 3.0 (quilt) source packages now?
<ScottK> mok0: No
<ScottK> Well you can, but they'll get rejected.
<mok0> Heh, just checked, it works fine in my jaunty sbuilder
<ScottK> \sh: If it didn't take any packaging changes to backport it's just a matter of a bug filed against the relevant backports project, someone testing that it builds, installs, and runs, and a backporter (like me) giving it an ack.  Then an archive administrator has a magic script.
<mok0> ScottK: that's because KDE insisted on having their own specialized versions of autotools, AFAIR
<ScottK> Could be.
<ScottK> I mostly notice the absence of pain.
<mok0> :-)
<\sh> ScottK, hehe..."runs" means backporter needs to have clue about zend-framework coding ;)
<ScottK> \sh: If you tell me it runs, I'll believe you.
<\sh> ScottK, k...for the next time :)
<Laney> yay, gtk2hs built
<bddebian> Heya gang
<mok0> bddebian: it's been a while since gang was here :-P
<bddebian> :)
<iulian> Hey bddebian, mok0!
<mok0> iulian: hi!
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<sebner> huhu bddebian iulian mok0
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<mok0> hiya sebner
<geser> Hi bddebian, sebner, mok0, iulian
<bddebian> Gah you guys are killing me this morning.. :)  Hi geser
<Laney> hi bddebian!
<mok0> Hi Laney, geser!
<Laney> and the rest
<Laney> ah mok0, a pleasure
<bddebian> Heya Laney
<mrayzenoss> So I've got a large application that needs some assistance in packaging: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/251404
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 251404 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Zenoss Core - Enterprise IT, monitor your entire IT structure - networks, servers, virtualizations, applications" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<mrayzenoss> we're looking for the best steps to make our build friendlier for packaging
<mrayzenoss> We're getting to the latest Zope 2.12 and Python 2.6, but our build is currently a monolithic shell script that wraps Make
<mrayzenoss> should we use autotools or a buildout?
<Laney> using a normal build system will make life easier for packaging
<Laney> autotools/distutils/...
<mrayzenoss> that was our inclination, but a lot of Python stuff is done with buildout (especially Zope stuff)
<Laney> if you know of any similar software then you can look at how that is packaged
<mrayzenoss> yeah, we were looking for large Zope applications and came up a little short (LaunchPad?)
<mrayzenoss> that is, LaunchPad runs on Zope
<Laney> it's not packaged though
<mrayzenoss> right
<dcushman> Is there a "definitive" guide to creating Ubuntu focused apps? I'm starting a new project for a client who has happily targeted Ubuntu Karmic as the platform. App is python business focused. Haven't really chosen any implementation details. Looking for best practices to share with community. My google-fu is dredging up Hoary age documents.
<dcushman> Gnome based desktop application.
<XiXaQ> regarding ubuntu-restricted-extras. In Karmic, it doesn't recommend or require java. Still, the appcenter does say it will pull it in. Is this a package bug or is it meant to not pull in java?
<jpds> XiXaQ: bug #359934
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359934 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "Java is not included in ubuntu-restricted-extras" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359934
<XiXaQ> thanks, jpds.
<sebner> hihi geser, Sry I missed you :\
<ScottK> mrayzenoss: From a Python perspective, distutils tends to work best with Debian style packaging.  Someone familiar with buildout and Debian packaging should be able to translate between the two relatvely easily, but AFAIK there's nothing automated.
<ScottK> dcushman: You might look at the new Quickly project in Karmic.  In general for Python stuff if you use distutils for Python packaging, getting to a good Debian package is easy.
<sebner> hihi geser, Sry I missed you :\
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> what would be the best course of action to have libsdl upgraded on Lucid ?
<ScottK> joaopinto: The best course is to get it upgraded in Debian and then sync/merge
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> now I need to check how to achive it in Debian :P
<joaopinto> we really need libsdl fixed
<ScottK> joaopinto: Filing a bug in BTW with the needed diff for the debian dir for the new release is a good start.
<joaopinto> ScottK, , I can't file a bug on Debian because I don't use it, alsot it might be related to PA, I have no idea how Debian stands with that
<joaopinto> right now libsdl sound is unusable for random people
<ScottK> Well if you can test build an update to their package in a chroot, that's problably good enough for a wishlist bug for a package upgrade.
<joaopinto> I have checked the libsdl release notes and they did fixes related to ALSA and PA
<joaopinto> ok, I will try it, this is really something important to fix for Lucid
<serialorder> how often do you guys use a chroot environment? I have been wrestling with setting one up for a few days now but I am unclear how often it would be used?
<av`> serialorder, a chroot build environment is used everytime you need to test whether a package builds fine or not
<sebner> serialorder: depending on how often you contribute to ubuntu. If you are planning doing a lot syncs and merges you will need it a lot
<serialorder> i know but that can be done with pbuilder
<av`> serialorder, and it's pretty easy to setup :)
<av`> serialorder, yes
<av`> pbuilder creates for you a chroot environment if needed
<av`> e.g if you use the --login flag
<serialorder> but do you set up another chroot with schroot to login and use that for testing packages or do you just login and use the pbuilder environment ?
<serialorder> I realise i could choose to do either but I am trying to get a sense for what other people like
<av`> serialorder, I usually use a VM for direct tests and I build stuff with pbuilder or another build system hosted on my server
<av`> never had to use schroot
<av`> since tests that do not require X can be done into pbuilder with --login flag
<av`> plus you can use X into a pbuilder too, but it's more complicated to set up
<serialorder> av`, so for working with merges and syncs for lucid would you just use pbuilder?
<serialorder> that is all i have done in the past but I wondered if there was a "better" way to do it
<av`> serialorder, yes, and specific tests can be done using a VM or directly youy system if you've upgraded to lucid already
<av`> * into your
<serialorder> how do you set up a VM for lucid?
<av`> install karmic and update distro in sources.list
<av`> like alwais
<joaopinto> serialorder, I prefer a schroot
<av`> anyway I use another system to build stuff, which is like a simple buildd
<joaopinto> serialorder, I have a script which does everythinf for you
<av`> serialorder, it's name is debomatic
<fabrice_sp_> I personally uses a schroot for dev purpose (merge, sync,, upgrades, bugfixing, testing, ..) and keep my main system cleam
<fabrice_sp_> and sbuild for building
<av`> fabrice_sp_, schroot allows you to use X?
<joaopinto> it does
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<av`> cool, never tried
<fabrice_sp_> only dbus failed with karmic
<joaopinto> serialorder, check http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~debfactory-devs/debfactory/devel/annotate/head%3A/bin/schroot_build.py
<fabrice_sp_> more lightweight than a full VM :-)
<serialorder> joaopinto, this is the script you use?
<joaopinto> yes
<av`> serialorder, the buildd I use can be found at debomatic.debian.net
<fabrice_sp_> arghh: http://patches.ubuntu.com/ is dead :-( This was the page I used to check sync request when modifications were done in Ubuntu :-(
<av`> serialorder, http://debomatic.debian.net so you can click directly on it
<av`> serialorder, apt-get source debomatic to know what's running behind it :)
<fabrice_sp_> is there another way to check if a ubuntu modified package has been updated in Debian? (like the main page of MoM)
<av`> fabrice_sp_, what about manually?
<av`> fabrice_sp_, e.g PTS checks
<av`> or I dunno if u-d-t has something for it
<fabrice_sp_> yeah: I keep all the packages I uploaded, but it was easier to look after my name in MoM main page :-)
<fabrice_sp_> (and quciker)
<av`> yep, dunno how long till it gets open again
<serialorder> thanks for the suggestions and advice guys
<av`> serialorder, np, hope to see you around asking for some debdiff's review
<serialorder> av`, i think i will be able to this time around, I was too busy for karmic but I merged like 12 packages for jaunty. I know that is not very many among this group but I was surprised by how many i managed to do =)
<av`> :)
<micahg> ping \sh re zend framework
<cherva> anyone maintaining the nautilus package for 9.10 ?
<ScottK> cherva: You probably want #ubuntu-desktop
<cherva> ScottK: thanks
<serialorder> joaopinto, if you are still there the script worked like a charm, once I added lucid the list of options. There was one issue, since I have my /home/user drive encrypted it would not show my files but i fixed that by explicitly binding it in /etc/schroot/mount-defaults
<joaopinto> sebner, great :)
<joaopinto> ops, serialorder :P
<joaopinto> I didn't tested it with lucid yet, so that's good knews
<joaopinto> erm, news
<serialorder> is there something extra I need to do to run x apps? because I am getting this error: "Error: Can't open display: :0.0"
<joaopinto> serialorder, xhost + on your host
<joaopinto> to gran X access to the schroot apps
<serialorder> joaopinto, thanks!
<joaopinto> that was not required on Jaunty, something was changed on the X config
<gaspa> geser: I may be wrong, but seems build_status.py doesn't work with py-launchpadlib shipped with karmic.
<wgrant> That's right.
<wgrant> There's an import change.
 * wgrant finds it.
<wgrant> gaspa: I've changed it to this:
<wgrant> try:
<wgrant>     from launchpadlib.resource import Entry
<wgrant> except ImportError:
<wgrant>     from lazr.restfulclient.resource import Entry
<gaspa> wgrant: ah, thank you!
<gaspa> wgrant: that-> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/source/ is still with the old import
<wgrant> gaspa: Right, that's running on Hardy. The one for the rebuild (which I've developed on karmic recently) has the new import.
<gaspa> oh
<gaspa> ok, never mind.
<DktrKranz> wgrant, gaspa: with recent lazr.restfulclient there could be issues with unicode encodings
<DktrKranz> I noticed that when packaging them in Debian
 * gaspa reinstalls Hardy
<gaspa> :P
 * DktrKranz backports the whole stuff in Hardy
<ajmitch> gaspa: be brave, go for lucid
<gaspa> ajmitch: in these days I guess lucid have the same issues as karmic, at least :P
<DktrKranz> naah, it's gonna be a LTS, I'd say lucid + 1 :)
 * ajmitch doesn't want to think about how many problems there could be in supporting direct hardy->lucid upgrades
<geser> ajmitch: just thing about the python upgrade
<ajmitch> geser: hopefully that won't go too badly if squeeze is on python 2.6 by then as well
 * ajmitch has lucid running inside vbox to keep updated & play with, plus a basic karmic install to clone & upgrade from
<ajmitch> but most of the small problems in various universe packages will be hard to catch
<Laney> hm
<Laney> requestsync isn't finding a package from squeeze
<Laney> try this: requestsync --lp gnome-do-docklets
<Laney> did those messages get through?
<directhex> Laney, works here, but assumes sid
<Laney> directhex: works if I force unstable
<jpds> Someone has to change ubuntutools/requestsync/lp.py
<Laney> I assume it's due to this: https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/gnome-do-docklets/+publishinghistory
<Laney> other package work well
<directhex> Laney, weird... why's the data wrong?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> to #launchpad!
<directhex> but i am le tired!
<jpds> directhex: Well, have a nap.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-05
<blackmoon> hi, ubuntu use "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" or "X-Original-Maintainer" in the control file?
<micahg> blackmoon: there's an update-maintainer script that takes care of that
<blackmoon> micahg: where can i find it?
<micahg>  ubuntu-dev-tools
<blackmoon> micahg: thanks you
<micahg> blackmoon: you're welcome
<ScottK> ajmitch: They are supported for Kubuntu.  We also supported Hardy -> Intrepid without a lot of trouble.
<ajmitch> ScottK: it's more the various small things that may have been dropped over the last 18 months, I just think there'll be a lot of upgrade testing to try & do
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> jdong: How about Bug #471775
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 471775 in qdevelop "[SRU] Build buttons are never enabled" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/471775
<jdong> ScottK: looking...
<jdong> ScottK: ACKED; looks good to me
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<ScottK> Accepted.
<ScottK> jdong: Got any more Universe SRU's needed accept?
<jdong> to be honest I haven't been following them once they leave the ack stage
<ScottK> OK.
<jdong> I noticed in my past two days buried under homework, my LP bugmail is up to 300 unread again :)
<ScottK> jdong: How about Bug 460280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460280 in uim "package uim-qt3 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/uim.mo', which is also in package libuim-data 1:1.5.6-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460280
<jdong> ScottK: is there a patch/upload associated with it?
<ScottK> jdong: There's an upload in the queue
<ScottK> I'm reviewing the queue, not bugs.
<jdong> *grumble* mmmph the one place I don't watch
<jdong> got a link handy?
<jdong> is the SRU page saying to upload without debdiff'ing and let the SRU team dig out the diff?
<ScottK> jdong: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue?queue_state=1
<ScottK> Yes, since the Main reviewers have command line access to the queue, it's trivial for them to look at the diff in the queue.
<ScottK> This has always been appropriate for Main
<jdong> *nods*
<ScottK> Now that there is no Universe process ....
<jdong> heh indeed. *grabs the two dscs and debdiffs*
<jdong> ScottK: ACKed it; debdiff looks good
<ScottK> OK.  Let me know if you want any of the others.
<jdong> d4x is badly versioned; reject.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Done
<fabrice_sp> jdong, about SRU for Universe: should I then also subscribe motu-sru?
<jdong> fabrice_sp: yes please
<jdong> that gets you on my bugmail radar
<jdong> which means you might be one of 305 lucky winners to be read on any given day!
<jdong> :)
<fabrice_sp> That's what I understood reading your email :-) Thanks ;-)
<jdong> sure thing :)
<wgrant> jdong, ScottK: You know you should be able to use queuediff from ubuntu-archive-tools to get a diff easily?
<jdong> what's ubuntu-archive-tools? :)
<ScottK> I didn't.  Trying now.
<jdong> google :)
<wgrant> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/annotate/head%3A/queuediff
<wgrant> A few things in there depend on cocoplum access, but others don't.
<jdong> *nods* that certainly is nice
<jdong> never knew about that before
<jgoppert> if you have a package in your ppa can another package you create depend on that package?
<jgoppert> will the ubuntu server know to include your ppa when it users pbuilder?
<noodles775> jgoppert: see the 'Edit PPA dependencies' on your PPA page - you can add other PPAs there.
<jgoppert> ok, and how do i fix my pbuilder, is there a  way to tell it to use my ppa, i can install my package through apt-get so that part is setup correctly
<noodles775> jgoppert: afaik you'll have to add a pbuilder hook to update your sources.list before building - but someone else is probably in a better position to comment on that.
<jgoppert> i tried telling my ppa that is depends on itself but launchpad doesn't like that so how will it find my package?
<jgoppert> i guess i could create another ppa ?, do you usually create one per package?
<noodles775> It's certainly a good idea to keep them focused - not necessarily one per package, but more in terms of, if a user added this ppa, what would they expect to be updated on their system.
<jgoppert> oh i see
<jgoppert> noodles775: found it 'OTHERMIRROR="<sources.list deb line>"'
<noodles775> jgoppert: also, found this: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#Dependencies
<noodles775> so it should automatically be using versions from your PPA.
<jgoppert> oh nice, thanks, so i'm free from having to create a new ppa
<LucidFox> Gah. Another orig.tar.gz mismatch.
<LucidFox> And this version has been in Ubuntu long before Debian - you'd think the Debian maintainer would have taken the orig.tar.gz from us.
<dholbach> good morning
 * LucidFox waves
<dholbach> hi LucidFox
<LucidFox> Is there a diff tool for tar.gz archives, or do I need to unpack them first?
<dholbach> debdiff does it for .dsc + .tar.gz, other than that I don't know
<LucidFox> Gah, these orig.tar.gzs have identical content, but are different. No sync for us.
<LucidFox> Judging by the changelog, the debian uploader for kplayer took the package directly from debian-multimedia without considerations for Ubuntu.
<LucidFox> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=473205
<ubottu> Debian bug 473205 in wnpp "O: valknut -- graphical client for Direct Connect" [Normal,Open]
<LucidFox> Last post has been a year ago.
<LucidFox> I wonder if it's okay to just reassign this to myself, or if I should contact the current owner first
<hyperair> if it's O: i think it's fine if you just reassign this to yourself
<hyperair> and mark it A:
<hyperair> i think
<hyperair> lemme go check how i adopted nautilus-share..
<hyperair> ITA
<hyperair> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501938
<ubottu> Debian bug 501938 in wnpp "O: nautilus-share -- Nautilus extension to share folder using Samba" [Normal,Closed]
<hyperair> i think if the previous maintainer wanted to know, he/she'd CC him/herself to the bug.
<hyperair> or subscribe, or whatever you choose to call i
<hyperair> t
<Elbrus> hyperair: so you actually forgot to retitle that bug to ITA ;)
<hyperair> Elbrus: eh what?
<Elbrus> the last one you mentioned
<hyperair> Changed Bug title to `ITA: nautilus-share -- Nautilus extension to share folder using Samba' from `O: nautilus-share -- Nautilus extension to share folder using Samba'. Request was from Chow Loong Jin <hyperair@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:54:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.
<hyperair> i did!
<Elbrus> strange
<hyperair> what's strange?
<Elbrus> ubottu displays as O: ...
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Elbrus> sorry ubottu :)
<hyperair> Elbrus: oh yeah, it does
<Elbrus> hyperair: any idea, should I report this as bug somewhere?
<hyperair> Elbrus: dunno. who maintains ubottu?
<Elbrus> I don't know, I'll try and find out (unless somebody here knows the answer)
<Elbrus> hyperair: FYI bug 475194 is reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475194 in ubuntu-bots "ubottu does not take the current title from Debian bugs (but presumably the original one)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475194
<mok0> More bad karmic press: http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html
<gaspa> mok0: bah. i'm quite annoyed, frankly. (from bad press, not 'bad linuxes')
<mok0> gaspa: yeah it's dumb but it reached Google News
<gaspa> urgh
<highvoltage> a MOTU class on http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0 would be quite nice
<siretart`> highvoltage: it's actually dead easy and convinient to use.
<siretart`> the main advantage I see is that debdiffs finally show a proper diff, no longer diff-of-diffs.
<wgrant> It's pretty nice.
<wgrant> Although we're still some way from supporting it.
<highvoltage> siretart`: what's the difference between 'quilt' and 'native'? Is quilt just some rules for backwards compatibility? they don't seem to explain it on that page
<LucidFox> wgrant> But Debian does support it now?
<wgrant> highvoltage: 3.0 (quilt) is the replacement for the non-native 1.0 format.
<wgrant> highvoltage: 3.0 (native) is for native packages.
<siretart`> highvoltage: think of 'v3 (native)' of pretty much the same as we currently have, with the exception that a) orig.tar.bz2 are allowed, and multiple orig.tarballs are possible
<wgrant> LucidFox: Correct.
<wgrant> siretart`: Um, does 3.0 (native) really allow multiple orig tarballs?
 * wgrant checks.
<wgrant> if so, I have a bug.
 * siretart` rereads the manpage
<wgrant> No, just one tarball.
<siretart`> no, you're right. my bad
<wgrant> The only different between native 1.0 and 3.0 (native) is support for bz2 and lzma tar.gz.
<wgrant> However, neither dak nor LP will support lzma.
<highvoltage> siretart`, wgrant: thanks!
<siretart`> highvoltage: in essence: if you have a package that uses quilt, use 3.0 (quilt). dpkg has basic quilt functionality built in
<LucidFox> wgrant> Any reason?
<wgrant> LucidFox: For what? The lack of lzma support?
 * LucidFox nods
<wgrant> Not sure about Debian's rationale, but our rationale was a lack of rationale for diverging from Debian.
<siretart`> highvoltage: oh, and v3 no longer build an .diff.gz, but rather an .debian.tar.gz. that means you can finally have binary files in debian/*
<highvoltage> siretart`: yes I saw \o/
<directhex> wgrant, so how much of 3.0 is supported in ubuntu? none at all? bz2 orig?
<wgrant> directhex: None at all.
<wgrant> directhex: Didn't make it in time for this LP release, sadly.
<wgrant> Although the code is done.
<directhex> well, i hope it's in before lucid freezes
<wgrant> Oh yes.
<wgrant> LP 3.1.11 at the latest.
<wgrant> (which, despite the name, is actually due on 2009-12-05)
<directhex> and automatic syncs are still switched off until your branch is merged?
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> The current LP rollout will cause the autosyncer to just skip v3 packages.
<wgrant> So autosyncing can continue even after testing gets its first v3 package (a day or two away), but those packages will be omitted.
<LucidFox> So we do autosync from testing now?
<Laney> yes
 * LucidFox scratches her head
<highvoltage> LucidFox: LTS releases will be synced from testing from now on
<highvoltage> LucidFox: there's a big thread about it on the ubuntu-devel list
<LucidFox> Yah, I read about it.
<LucidFox> Still sounds odd to me to use untested practices for LTS.
<wgrant> If it starts going wrong, it's easy to fix. Going the other way is not.
 * siretart` is unsure how hard we should follow this "only merge from testing" requirement.
<siretart`> e.g. I've already merged emacs-goodies-el which was uploaded only
<siretart`> yesterday. I"m using the package myself and notice a lot of bugfixes in debian.
<Laney> probably harder for main than universe
<siretart`> so shall I uploaded it or wait until it migrates to testing? and how
<siretart`> shall I communicate to other motus that I have that merge ready so that
<siretart`> no one else waste time merging the squeeze package
<Laney> file a workflow bug
<ice_cream> hi, the other day i inquired about the slim dm not being in karmic -->   according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/slim/+bug/391805  a person was assigned to maintain it at the end of sept... what does this mean for the package?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 391805 in slim "update slim package to 1.3.1 version" [Undecided,Fix released]
<siretart`> Laney: what is the helper of the day for workflow bugs?
<Laney> siretart`: There isn't one that I know of
<Laney> just: title Merge xxx from Debian yyy, body: changelog, status: In Progress, assignee: you
<Laney> siretart`: But really I would say that you shouldn't block on this, if you feel there's a reason to merge from sid then do it
 * siretart` feels that tool support for workflow bugs might be useful anyway
<siretart`> Laney: oh, fun. emacs-goodies-el is in main anyway :-)
<\sh> siretart, do we have a list of all merges , while MoM is down?
<slytherin> \sh: may be multidistrotools will help you
<gaspa> slytherin: no one (mdt output) available on the net?
<gaspa> ubuntuwire refers to squeeze
<slytherin> gaspa: it is section wise.
<slytherin> gaspa: and why referring to squeeze is problem?
<gaspa> slytherin: I'd like a replacing of MoM, while it's down.... and squeeze is not testing.
<gaspa> :P
<slytherin> gaspa: even I would like that too but for now mdt is sufficient for me.
<\sh> slytherin, where is the source of mdt? the bzr branch from w.u.c. (http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/multidistrotools/) is not available
<gaspa> \sh: isn't there a package?
<\sh> apt-cache search multi|grep distro -> nothing
<gaspa> I recall of a ... but... perhaps I recall wrong :P
<\sh> wgrant, mdt is where? ;)
<\sh> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/multidistrotools
<\sh> I hope that's it
<wgrant> gaspa: "squeeze is not testing"?
<gaspa> svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-multidistrotools
<gaspa> \sh: I've that.
<wgrant> So, there are two main versions of mdt.
<wgrant> Debian's, and mine.
<\sh> wgrant, which is better? ;)
<wgrant> I think the branch on LP is pretty much up to date, but let me check..
<gaspa> ... wgrant, ah. ops... I said a bigdumbthing, right
<wgrant> \sh: The copy on LP is the latest version of mine. I don't remember what changes Debian's has, but it was nothing important.
<\sh> wgrant, ok...so i think that I have to build the package first and then install and then use?
<wgrant> \sh: You don't have to build a package.
<wgrant> \sh: But you can.
<\sh> wgrant, well some paths are wrong
<\sh> shermann@wz-pc-010:~/mdt/ubuntuwire$ ./mdt dist-create sid http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
<\sh> ./mdt:57:in `exec': No such file or directory - /usr/share/multidistrotools/dist-create.bash (Errno::ENOENT)
<soren> Do any of you guys know how much space a Debian source/i386/amd64,testing/unstable,main/contrib mirror takes?
<\sh> use the source \sh export MDT_SCRIPTSDIR
<wgrant> \sh: Hrm.
<wgrant> \sh: My memory is probably foggy.
<wgrant> \sh: My cron scripts set MDT_SCRIPTSDIR. I wonder if that is related.
<\sh> wgrant, as said, use the source and set MDT_SCRIPTSDIR ;)
<ripps> soren: http://www.debian.org/mirror/size
<siretart`> \sh: no, I've started merging some of my pet packages anyway. I felt
<siretart`> like exploring how to merge packages with bzr and the lp package imports
<siretart`> it works out pretty cool, btw
<\sh> siretart, time to elaborate a bit of your experiences?
<siretart`> \sh: I'm still refining my workflow, but the general idea is this:
<soren> ripps: Ah, neat, thanks.
<siretart`> bzr get lp:debian/$package/sid lucid ; cd lucid; bzr merge lp:ubuntu/$package/karmic
<wgrant> soren: debmirror says slightly under 75GB
<soren> wgrant: It can estimate?
<siretart`> then go throuh all conflicts, 'bzr revert' the spurious conflicts
<wgrant> soren: It tells me how much it is going to download.
<siretart`> at the end, 'bzr diff' shows you the remaining changes, these are then
<siretart`> noted in debian/changelog.
<siretart`> done
<soren> wgrant: Oh. I never noticed. thanks.
<\sh> siretart, oh you mean we do have sid somehow on our bzr server?
<wgrant> soren: Right before it starts downloading it'll tell you.
<siretart`> \sh: yes, we do have (at least) some debian package in our bzr imports
<joaopinto> where can we find some docs about the new package source format ?
<soren> wgrant: It usually either runs from cron or in a screen session for me :/
<siretart`> however the importer fails with a number of packages. you'd need to
<siretart`> ask james_w for statistics
<\sh> siretart, thx :)
<siretart`> anyway, if a branch is missing on lp, importing them with 'bzr
<siretart`> import-dsc' is pretty straight forward as well
<james_w> siretart`: you want to use "bzr merge-package"
 * siretart` looks
<james_w> siretart`: in case there is a new upstream version included in Debian
<siretart`> No help could be found for 'merge-package'
<siretart`> where is that command from?
<siretart`> ah, dammit, wrong machine. now I've found it
<siretart`> james_w: so, how is this command supposed to be used? before or
<siretart`> instead the 'bzr merge lp:ubuntu/$package/karmic'?
<james_w> instead of
<james_w> in the exact same way
<siretart`> Oh, I see
<siretart`> this would have saved me some 'bzr reverts'
<slytherin> james_w: Do you have some time to look up the reason why excalibur-logkit was put into main?
<james_w> slytherin: that information is not available
<slytherin> hmm
<james_w> slytherin: if it has rdepends in main then that will be why
<james_w> if it doesn't then check the seeds
<james_w> there's also http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/
<slytherin> james_w: It doesn't have rdepends in main. And it has a build-dep in universe.
<james_w> which says eucalyptus-java-common
<james_w> so that's why
<slytherin> wait, did I miss this?
<slytherin> james_w: right, so probably ttx requested the promotion to main.
<ttx> slytherin: yes, it's a eucalyptus dependency.
<slytherin> ttx: problem is that I removed geronimo build-dep from excalibur-logkit because the package does not exist in Debian where is libjboss-j2ee-java was available. So now excalibur-logkit FTBFS in lucid since libjboss-j2ee-java is in universe.
<ttx> slytherin: that should be fixed in a merge
<ttx> the geronimo build-deps were introduced to get a lighter dependency (JBoss can't make it into main right now)
<slytherin> ttx: it is not a merge. The package is in sync with Debian. So we need to add geronimo build-dep again.
<ttx> slytherin: then,yes
<slytherin> ttx: or you could put geronimo packages in Debian. :-)
<ttx> slytherin: well, I proposed them
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=554573
<Laney> heh heh
<ubottu> Debian bug 554573 in debian-keyring "debian-keyring breaks GPL" [Unknown,Open]
<slytherin> that's a nice one. :-)
<\sh> what was the right tag for bugreports with patches?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek Day 4 starting in 11m on #ubuntu-classroom
<ttx> anything specific to do to make a pbuilder pull from karmic-updates / proposed ?
<Ryan52> what's karmic+1 called?
<Pici> !lucid
<ubottu> Lucid Lynx is the codename for Ubuntu 10.04, due April 2010 - See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l02bhwofEqw for announcement video.
<Ryan52> thanks
<Ryan52> hm, and when will syncs start happening again?
<Ryan52> or do I have to request syncs?
<Ryan52> libnokogiri-ruby |    1.3.3-2 |       testing | source, all
<Ryan52> libnokogiri-ruby |    1.3.1-1 | lucid/universe | source, all
<Ryan52> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libn/libnokogiri-ruby/news/20090926T163926Z.html
<Ryan52> 1.3.3-2 has been in testing for over a month, and yet it's still not in lucid.
<Ryan52> Kmos: so I don't think it's syncing correctly then..
<ScottK> Ryan52: The autosync should start next week.  We weren't quite ready for the v3 package formats
<ScottK> Kmos is probably about the last person to go to for advice on Ubuntu development.
<Ryan52> yes, obviously I know that now since he said the complete opposite of whats true.
<Ryan52> anyways, thanks ScottK.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<al-maisan> Hello there! How do I tell 'debuild -S' *not* to include the orig.tar.gz file in the files to be uploaded
<al-maisan> ?
<ScottK> al-maisan: debuild -S doesn't.  It's debuild -S -sa that does
<al-maisan> ScottK: thank you!
<al-maisan> ScottK: it appears '-sd' is the flag I was looking for..
<jdong> whee; now IRC pings are pushed to my iPhone.
<jdong> (DO NOT USE THIS FACT FOR EVIL XD)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> now you can approve an SRU from ANYWHERE!
 * jdong can pretend to get bad cell reception!
<fcuk112_> i created a gpg key on my machine and uploaded it to launchpad, however i've started working in a new VM - do i need to repeat the process of generating a new gpg key and uploading that?  is it ok to have multiple gpg keys?
<Laney> no
<fcuk112_> so how do i transfer the updated key to the new VM?  i've tried to copy the .gnugpg folder but when i try to debuild -S it complains about secret key not being available.
<av`> fcuk112_, gpg --list-keys will tell you if it worked as expected
<fcuk112_> gpg: skipped "root <root@lucidlynx>": secret key not available
<fcuk112_> gpg: /tmp/debsign.HLkJlIo5/fet_5.9.1-1ubuntu1.dsc: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<fcuk112_> that's what i get when i try debuild -S.  the output from gpg --list-keys looks OK, same as the output from my terminal.
<av`> fcuk112_, use -kYOURKEYIDHERE
<av`> fcuk112_, e.g debuild -S -kXXXX
<stevecrozz> I'm working on packaging php-fpm, but the ./configure relies on specifying the path to php source... how should I do this?
<stevecrozz> I already downloaded the source with apt-get source, and I can point to it... but is that the right way to do it?
<stevecrozz> any known examples of a package that depends on source from another package?
<wasabi> Q: I am writing a package that installs a CA certificate. How should I integrate it into ca-certificates? I figure I should just dump it in the dir, and then reconfigure ca-certificates...  how do I do that last part? Reconfigure ca-certificates.
<wasabi> From anotehr package.
<fcuk112_> av`: thanks, that worked.
<fcuk112_> when i upload a debdiff file and added the ubuntu sponsors, do i set the status to in-progress or fix committed?
<ari-tczew> New / unassigned?
<fabrice_sp> only use fix commited when the new pacakge has been uplaoded
<iulian> fcuk112_: 'Comfirmed' is recommended.
<fcuk112_> ok, thanks.
<iulian> s/comfirmed/confirmed/
<wasabi> Anybody know where firefox reads certificates from?
<ari-tczew> Confirmed? why? is it not only for review by sponsor?
<fabrice_sp> Confirmed?
 * fabrice_sp is checking the wiki page
<iulian> That's what I remember.
<fabrice_sp> the siki page don't say anything
<ari-tczew> I guess that if you not a MOTU's member you not should change status to confirmed, because it's not usefully for sponsors
<av`> I guess Confirmed is the right status to set
<av`> in progress is when someone works on it
<av`> confirmed when a sponsor needs to check it yet
<av`> and fix committed when the upload is done
<ari-tczew> hmmm
<av`> and fix released is automatically set so not a problem
<ari-tczew> but not in FFe right?
<av`> yes, FFe wants New
<ari-tczew> ok thanks, now I understand
<av`> and confirmed when motu-release review it
<ari-tczew> ye
<av`> e.g confirmed should be set the motu-release after two acks
<av`> * when
<ari-tczew> ubuntu archive sync is open, right?
<av`> yep
<av`> * by motu-release
<av`> damn my writing so fast
<ari-tczew> is it synces from unstable or testing?
<av`> testing since it is an LTS
<av`> but if you need to sync a GNOME package, you need sid
<av`> for other packages testing is the right one
<ari-tczew> can I open requestsync on launchpad for any package @universe from unstable?
<av`> well requestsync is still set to request sid
<av`> but you need testing so you should fix it manually somewhere into the bug
<ari-tczew> around, fille a bug manually?
<av`> or you specify into the bug which version it's available in squeeze
<Laney> requestsync -d testing xxx
<dothebart> hy.
<ari-tczew> I'd like to prefer opening bugs manually
<av`> ari-tczew, I don't use u-d-t so I can't help with them :)
<av`> I alwais did it manually
<dothebart> the 9.10 release was again done with pretty out of date citadel packages.
<av`> e.g it leaves me more liberty
<ari-tczew> as like as me
<dothebart> who's to blame for that?
<dothebart> ;-)
<av`> dothebart, well, I would check https://launchpa.net/ubuntu/source/citadel
<ari-tczew> hmmm, I guess that we can sync it into lucid, then backport for karmic from lucid
<ari-tczew> correct me if I'm wrong
<av`> dothebart, * https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/citadel
<av`> dothebart, if Debian is up-to-date ask for a sync
<Laney> what do you mean "more liberty"? requestsync lets you edit bugs before you file them
<Laney> don't request a sync, it will be done automatically
<Laney> (already has been done)
<av`> Laney, depends if it hasnt an XubuntuY version attached
<av`> didnt check
<stevecrozz> av`: I'm working on a package that depends on source code from another package... can I specify that in debian/control?
<Laney> well I did check
<av`> Laney, I alwais did that manually so never tried out u-d-t
<av`> Laney, I don't want everything made automatic
<av`> stevecrozz, you mean the build depends on another source package?
<stevecrozz> av`: yes
<av`> stevecrozz, add it into Build-Depends into debian/control or debian/control.in if it has one
<av`> stevecrozz, check right package name
<av`> stevecrozz, if not it will fail to build, e.g use apt-cache search whatyouthinkthepackagenameis
<stevecrozz> so I'd add Build-Depends: "source php5"?
<dothebart> av`: debian is pretty much up to date
<fabrice_sp> stevecrozz, and the 'source' is not in a -dev package? Sounds weird...
<av`> dothebart, ask for a backport into karmic now :)
<av`> dothebart, and you're done
<dothebart> sid is usualy around 2 weeks behind upstream release date
<av`> stevecrozz, no
<av`> stevecrozz, if you need specific development files, you need a -dev package
<dothebart> the current release contains some weird bugs fixed in more recent versions released more than three months ago
<av`> stevecrozz, and the syntax is not source foo
<av`> stevecrozz, but simply foo-dev or whatever-dev
<stevecrozz> av`: ok there is a -dev package
<av`> dothebart, lucid has the latest package from what Laney said, so asking for a backport should be fine
<av`> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<stevecrozz> av`: I need to specify the source in debian/rules also
<av`> stevecrozz, no
<stevecrozz> ./configure --with-php-src="path"
<av`> stevecrozz, only if it differs from default value
<stevecrozz> it does because there is no default value
<dothebart> av`: link is down
<av`> dothebart, ah yes, wait a bit, it's under maintenance from what it seems
<av`> stevecrozz, I never had to manually specify such thing in debian/rules
<av`> but  I never worked with a php B-D
<av`> but anyway looks strange to me that you need to manually specify it
<stevecrozz> av`: where do -dev packages install source?
<av`> e.g build it before :)
<stevecrozz> this is the package: http://github.com/dreamcat4/php-fpm/blob/master/readme.markdown
<av`> stevecrozz, give me a package's url, e.g into Ubuntu's PTS
<dothebart> av`: just wanted to trigger it ;)
<av`> package name is php-fpm?
<stevecrozz> av`: yes
<pace_t_zulu> hey guys... i've got an easy one for a motu
<av`> stevecrozz, no package found with that name :)
<pace_t_zulu>  anyone interested?
<pace_t_zulu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/475735
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475735 in open-vm-tools "Please sync open-vm-tools 2009.10.15-201664-1 from Debian unstable (main) " [Undecided,New]
<stevecrozz> av`: I know... that's why I'm building it :)
<pace_t_zulu> any takers?
<av`> stevecrozz, you can't make a package depend on something that doesnt exist :D
<stevecrozz> av`: I'm building php-fpm, it depends on source from php5
<av`> stevecrozz, which files are needed?
<ari-tczew> there is no component specified and bug desciption doesn't have a changelog from Debian
<pace_t_zulu> vorian ping
<stevecrozz> av`: I'm not sure which specifically, but the readme says to specify the path to the entire php source
<stevecrozz> --with-php-src="../../php-$PHP_VER" \
<ari-tczew> pace_t_zulu: and it would be nice to see buildlog
<av`> stevecrozz, add a B-D on php5-dev
<randomaction> pace_t_zulu: it looks like it'll be auto-synced anyway
<av`> stevecrozz, to view its files
<av`> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/php5-dev/filelist
<pace_t_zulu> ari-tczew: just a package sync ...
<stevecrozz> av`: I added a build dependency on php5-dev, and I'm getting this right now: checking for php configuration... configure: error: Please specify full path to php source dir: --with-php=DIR
<stevecrozz> I'll try adding that in debian rules to /usr/include/php5
<av`> yeah, try that
<pace_t_zulu> randomaction: open-vm-tools was FTBFS for months in karmic
 * av` does not know where php stuff is stored
<pace_t_zulu> randomaction: i am trying to see to it that it receives more love in lucid
<pace_t_zulu> ari-tczew: added changelog from upstream
<av`> pace_t_zulu, he didnt say anything bad to you, he just told you to update the bug informations with latest changelog's entry plus rationale for the delta's drop and why we wanna sync that
<pace_t_zulu> av`: np ... just trying to contribute where i can
<pace_t_zulu> av`: how can i be sure if a package will be automatically synced?
<av`> yeah, if it has no XubuntuY version attached it will be auto synced
<stevecrozz> av`: Now I get "checking for php configuration... configure: error: No Makefile found in php build dir. Did you run configure ?"
<av`> stevecrozz, dunno, looks strange to me it asks you some sources built already into configure run
<av`> or maybe we just missed the right package
<av`> as I said I never worked on php stuff
<av`> so don't know where to look
<stevecrozz> it looks impossible to me without some modifications
<av`> check README
<stevecrozz> README for what
<stevecrozz> php5-dev?
<av`> nope, to check some path's examples for php
<av`> stevecrozz, did you give the right flag?
<av`> pace_t_zulu, it has no XubuntuY version attached so will be auto-synced somewhen
<pace_t_zulu> av`: thank you
<av`> pace_t_zulu, np
<stevecrozz> av`: the right flag?
<pace_t_zulu> av`: i'd like to point out that when the package was ftbfs in karmic  it ceased to autosync
<av`> pace_t_zulu, sure, we were into DIF already
<av`> stevecrozz, did you give --with-php-src="something/foo/php5"
<pace_t_zulu> av`: DIF?
<av`> pace_t_zulu, Debian Import Freeze
<pace_t_zulu> av`: k
<pace_t_zulu> av`: thanks
<stevecrozz> av`: well that's the thing. I can do that in debian/rules and I'm sure it would work... but it won't build anywhere else because I had to apt-get source php5
<av`> pace_t_zulu, e.g syncs needed to be requested manually
<pace_t_zulu> av`: good to know
<av`> stevecrozz, then B-D on php5 :)
<stevecrozz> av`: php-fpm requires the source code from php5 in order to compile
<av`> stevecrozz, and not php5-dev, then should start working
<av`> stevecrozz, yes, then B-D on php5
<stevecrozz> av`: then where should --with-php-src refer ?
<av`> stevecrozz, well it's not right, cause php5 package itself contains just a doc file
<stevecrozz> I think that's a virtual package
<av`> transitional package
<av`> stevecrozz, php5-common
<av`> try that
<stevecrozz> ok
<av`> stevecrozz, description says 'Common files for packages built from the php5 source'
<av`> so should be this one
<stevecrozz> av`: but I still don't know where to tell php-fpm to look for the source code
<stevecrozz> php-fpm has to know where to look for the php5 source
<av`> problem is I really don't know which file it wants :)
<av`> never looked through a php package so don't know what it needs to build
<stevecrozz> well the first thing it looks for is a Makefile
<av`> well, you won't find a Makefile into a binary package :)
<stevecrozz> ha, I know, that's what I'm talking about
<av`> if it really wants a Makefile you can't do anything
<stevecrozz> so back to my original question... there's no way to 'depend' on source code in debian/control?
<av`> nope, if you need source files like autotools stuff
<av`> you won't find them in any binary package
<stevecrozz> hmm... ok, that's what I was afraid of
<stevecrozz> looks like its either unpossible or will require some heavy patching
<jbernard> is it possible to push a bzr branch as a subdirectory of a project, like lp:~me/+junk/project/feature ?
<av`> jbernard, well, yes, but they will be into one branch not two
<av`> jbernard, e.g project/feature1 project/feature2 where feature1/2 are two folders
<av`> but the branch is the same
<ari-tczew> devs, how many packages I need to upload to join MOTU?
<jbernard> av`: so you'd just push to a new folder, like bzr push lp:~me/project/feature1
<jbernard> av`: and that directory structure would be created on the fly?
<av`> jbernard, yeah, and maybe keep the official project itself dir somewhere else
<av`> jbernard, well bzr add feature1 and you're done
<av`> ari-tczew, really depends :)
<jbernard> av`: ahh, i think im seeing the light now, thanks
<av`> jbernard, np, just keep modules on their own dirs
<av`> and you're done
<av`> just reminder that your working tree should be project --> module1 project --> module2 project --> module3 etc, all in one branch, it's easier to maintain it as well
<av`> since pushing to 3-4 different branches can confuse you a bit
<av`> while you work on the same project
<jbernard> and then others can pull whichever module they're interested in
<av`> well no, they gonna pull the whole branch so all modules
<av`> if you want to maintain them separately you need different branches
<av`> if not it won't work
<jbernard> av`: so, stepping back, if ive got two seperate bug fixes for a package, say ubuntu-dev-tools, how would you handle the bzr branch? as separate branches on lp, or one branch with separate modules?
<av`> jbernard, if you have two bug fixes for the same package you add the fix, you commit it, then you add the other fix and you commit it then you push, so they will appear as different commits and it will be easier to catch which commit fixed bug 1 and which one fixed bug 2
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, MOTU achievemente is based on merit, not on number of packages uploaded
<ari-tczew> yhym so you are looking on work's quality, no quantity
<av`> ari-tczew, you can't do one good package and then apply
<av`> quantity (normal) plus quality, that's it
<ari-tczew> I'm not working on one package. I work there where help is needed for packaging.
<ari-tczew> e.g. now I'm working on some security patches
<ajmitch> then apply when you (& sponsors) think you're ready
<fabrice_sp> jdong, ping (about SRU :-D )
<jdong> fabrice_sp: Continue please :). I'll tend to it in about 15min
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> I sohuld wait for a motu-sru ack before uploading to -proposed?
<fabrice_sp> I don't know if what james-w told you this morning (my morning) changes the sequence of what should be done (it's for bug #473834)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 473834 in jlgui "jlgui depends on non-existant package (Karmic)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/473834
<jdong> fabrice_sp: ACKed; continue with upload! :)
<jdong> and what did james say this morning?
<fabrice_sp> jdong, he didn't mentioned a tool to get a diff from the queue? I may have misunderstood
<jdong> that was w<noping>grant
<jdong> gotcha :)
<jdong> but yeah a debdiff is IMO still more convenient for now...
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> thanks! :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-06
<c_korn> hm, I cannot install libgoogle-perftools-dev. it says it depends on version 0.98 but version 0.85 is going to be installed
<mmmiiikkkeee> Hi, I am writing my first OS app; I want to learn how to package it for Ubuntu.  I was reading the Ubuntu policy manual and it says: "Every package must have a Debian maintainer"  I am not a Debian developer; does that mean I can't package my app for Ubuntu?
<directhex> mmmiiikkkeee, no. it's probably an error in the copypasta from debian policy
<ScottK> Actually it's not.
<ScottK> Every package must have a maintainer, just in Ubuntu it's almost always a team.
<directhex> it's preferred if the team is dynamic & sexy, though
<prower> Is there any reason why libstdc++-5 is no longer included in the repositories for karmic? The lack of the libraries has broken a lot of the closed-source software that I used to use without issue in Jaunty
<TheMuso> prower: Because the version of gcc that libstdc++5 was part of, was removed from karmic.
<prower> TheMuso, I see...so there's no way to run any of these commercial packages in karmic any more, then
<mmmiiikkkeee> ScottK: so for my package I would just put myself as the maintainer? since I wrote the app?
<prower> A little advice for MOTU, it'd be nice if you provided some warning -before- breaking a ton of software on your own users... :P
<ScottK> mmmiiikkkeee: No, you make Ubuntu Developers the maintainer
<TheMuso> prower: Its generally because Debian also removes software, so we follow their lead.
<prower> TheMuso: Even if it's to the detriment of your end users?
<ScottK> prower: It's a pretty ancient GCC version.  Indefinitely maintaining ancient stuff is really not feasible.
<prower> ScottK: Well obviously, yes :> It's not really feasible to run a lot of the stuff that I've bought now either
<prower> Hence the problem
<ScottK> prower: It's very within the power of these closed source vendors to user more recent GCC.  You're pointing your anger in the wrong direction.
<ScottK> prower: It's also equally possible to stay with an older Ubuntu version too.  Hardy is supported on the desktop for another 18 months.
<prower> ScottK: You're right...I should approach the manufacturer of every individual piece of software that I own and ask them to recompile their binaries, that's much more convenient? Thanks for the "help" :P
<ScottK> If he comes back, someone might mention this is one reason not to use closed source stuff.
<directhex> shall i summon the whaaambulance?
<ajmitch> directhex: it's obviously mono's fault
<directhex> ajmitch, bloody patents :(
<TheMuso> ScottK: Whats also interesting, is that c++ stuff seems to be affected more so than c, since it needs extra libs. I could be wrong however.
<ScottK> Yes, it does.  Not sure why.
<ajmitch> symbol mangling changes
<mmmiiikkkeee> ScottK: Ok, thanks; I just put "Ubuntu Developers" in the field or I need to specify a specific person? sorry for the confusion(I am new to all of this...)
<directhex> yeah. c++ has always been fragile with its symbols
<directhex> consider how many times there have been "c102" or "c2" appends onto package names, to cope with broken APIs from C++ tomfoolery
<directhex> t'is simply fragile
<ajmitch> at least we don't generally have to worry about libc5 :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: heh
<TheMuso> directhex: If I was a proprietary software vendor looking to write for Linux, unless my project really needed to use c++, then using c would be much more appealing.
<TheMuso> Due to c++ fragility.
<ajmitch> it would be nice to be able to have libstdc++5 still lying around without needing the full gcc-3.3 source in the repository
<directhex> TheMuso, i think it happens a fair bit with games
<ajmitch> windows is so much better at binary compatibility than linux :)
<TheMuso> directhex: I'll bet.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: One thing that probably needs to be improved in Linux. Sure its better to use open source, but the fact is that there are some things that will remain proprietary and be made available for Linux.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I don't know how easy it'd be to have libstdc++5 kept around & still buildable from source, without carrying all of gcc-3.3 indefinitely
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I am not referring to libstdc++5 specifically.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I do agree though.
<ajmitch> no, it's just one of the common cases
<ajmitch> we don't want to go out of our way to make it hard for people who still need to use proprietary software
<TheMuso> yep
<fcuk112> what is the difference between "closes" and "LP" when updating the changelog?
<ajmitch> "Closes: #123456" is what debian will pick up
<ajmitch> LP: #123435 is the equivalent for closing a bug in launchpad
<fcuk112> i see, can you do (LP: #12345, #12344) to close 2 bugs simultaneously?
<jdong> you need LP: #12345, LP: 12344
<fcuk112> ok cool thanks.
<jdong> what's our opinion on APSL?
<jdong> the same as the DFSG's?
<jdong> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2001/09/msg00103.html
<ajmitch> that is from 8 years ago, too
<jdong> ajmitch: yeah; I was wondering what's the feasiability of Apple's diskdev-cmds in Universe
<jdong> (giving us an effective fsck_hfs for iPod and such owners)
<ajmitch> what version of the APSL?
<ajmitch> since even the FSF considers 2.0 a free software licence
<jdong> version 2.0
<ajmitch> 2.0 seems to have different wording around the problematic section there
<jdong> *nods*
<ajmitch> ask the ubuntu ftpmasters :)
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=302462 seems to indicate that debian consider the APSL 2.0 to not be considered a free licence under the DFSG
<ubottu> Debian bug 302462 in ftp.debian.org "RM: howl -- RoM; license issues (APSL 2.0)" [Serious,Open]
<ScottK> jdong: Link to the license?
<jdong> http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/diskdev_cmds/diskdev_cmds-491/APPLE_LICENSE
<ScottK> jdong: I think it's OK for multiverse for sure.
<ScottK> It may be OK for Universe/Main, but I'd have to think about it.
<ScottK> The notion that a requirement to provide source makes a license non-free is at the very least odd.
<nhandler> It appears that merges.ubuntu.com is now up
<nhandler> Maybe I spoke too soon. It looks like only the /main.html listing is currently up.
<wgrant> nhandler: See Keybuk's recent statements in #-devel
<wgrant> nhandler: universe is some days away.
<nhandler> Thanks wgrant. I think I'll just sift through my old emails to try and get some of my merges taken care of
<ScottK> See u-d-a for merging via bzr
<wrapster> even though i've changed the version of a pkg and uploaded it a repo when i run upgrade i see that there is 0 pkg installed and 0 removed..
<wrapster> why and how is that possible?
<wgrant> wrapster: "a repo" being a PPA?
<wrapster> wgrant: when i do an upgrade libnspr4 is said that its kept back.. But i want to update that particular pkg itself... any idea why it may say so?
<wrapster> wgrant: and to your earlier question was... That i had goofed up a few things.. my mistake resolved taht one.
<wrapster> that*
<_ruben> wrapster: most common reason for packages to be kept back during upgrade is that the package in question depends on a new (not yet installed) package
<Edwin_ach> Hi everybody out, it is a nice work what are you doing for Ubuntu distro...
<Edwin_ach> I was reading short interviews to MOTU members and their words make me feel confidence to want to get involved helping out with this project, for the moment I will have to read the wiki and then dive into! :D
<ScottK> Edwin_ach: Welcome.
<Edwin_ach> thanks ScottK! :)
<jmarsden> Edwin_ach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted is a good starting page for wiki reading about what MOTUs do and how you can do it too.
<Edwin_ach> ScottK, I am feel happy to know anyone can help and become an active contributor to enhance Ubuntu distro!
<Edwin_ach> thank you ScottK, I will read the GettingStarted guide
<\sh> moins
<ScottK> Good morning \sh.
<micahg> hi \sh
<demongt> how do i get youtube video's to work?
<micahg> \sh: I copied zend fw in the ppa from hardy to karmic
<micahg> demongt: check in #ubuntu for support
<\sh> micahg, hey...I just pushed a new dojo upstream to my PPA...if you want to have a look at it :)
<micahg> or #ubuntu-mozillateam
<micahg> \sh: did you have to push the stuff in the ppa or were you able to copy it
<\sh> micahg, I uploaded the versions for zf into the zf ppa...
<micahg> ok
<\sh> micahg, ScottK will approve official backports for the next releases...
<micahg> oh, that's great
<micahg> although, I don't know if we should
<micahg> well, to karmic would be fine
<\sh> micahg, zf is harmless...a good package for backporting
<micahg> \sh: not for people using it in production :)
<\sh> micahg, tbh..people using ubuntu in production don't use backports (at least me ;))
<\sh> but zf needs to be always the latest..regarding our zf devs
<micahg> I guess it's ok, as backports by default has a priority of 1
<\sh> micahg, btw..if you have time and pleasure, debian is still waiting for our packages of zf on mentors...if you want, please jump on that wagon and push it into debian :)
<micahg> \sh: time is something I'm short on this month
<micahg> \sh: btw, there's a proposal in debian for dojo to be called libjs-dojo
<micahg> maybe your idea is better though
<\sh> micahg, yes...we need to change the package names...as said, my dojo package was just the first shot to try it out..it needs more love to make it rocking
<micahg> ok
<micahg> well, if you want to make a blueprint of what's required, I can probably get to it at some point before Lucid
<\sh> micahg, the package split in dojo-core, dojo-dijit and dojo-dojox makes sense, because it's just like jquery and jquery-ui ... three different functionalities
<\sh> micahg, whats really missing is the java js foo which needs separate packaging, because there is also a separate source...it needs to be removed from the dojo-src tarball when preparing the orig.tar.gz
<\sh> (which I don't do right now)
<Edwin_ach> ScottK, I was reading in the GettingStarted guide that MOTU are the people dealing with packaging... (it's sound great) but actually I have not enough experience in programming.... :S
<\sh> but the real crazyness of dojo are the licenses...we need to be careful about that
<ScottK> Edwin_ach: very little actual programming experience is needed.
<Edwin_ach> ScottK, I learned programming in C++some years ago, but by the slack of practice I am not feel confident to help in that area...
<ScottK> Edwin_ach: If you can do some basic shell scripting then you know enough.
<ScottK> If you know more, there's more you can do, but I'm not much of a programmer either
<micahg> \sh: is that it, just gather the licenses and clean the orig.tar.gz?
<Edwin_ach> ScottK, maybe very basic shell scripting, I'm still in the learning process :p
<ScottK> That's fine.
<ScottK> That's about where I was when I started
<Edwin_ach> if you are not programming ScottK, what do you do? (sorry for that question :$)
<ScottK> Packaging is mostly about integrating upstream software into the Debian style package system that we use.
<\sh> micahg, it's one of the things still to do ... as said, there is this "shrinksafe" tool, which needs to be packaged as standalone
<ScottK> Most of that is shell and make and most of the make stuff is reasonably stylized and reusable.
<ScottK> So programming doesn't really enter into it.
<ScottK> Those here that are good programmers also get into fixing bugs found in the packages too, but there is plenty of pure packaging work it's not essential
<Edwin_ach> ScottK, it sounds good... then, it is a nice chance to focus my efforts on learning shell scripting instead of specific language programming!!!
<Edwin_ach> although I remember programming is too fun! :D
<jmarsden> Edwin_ach: There are descriptions and examples of the packaging process in the Packaging Guide which will help you get a feel for the kind of work that is involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Edwin_ach> thank you jmarsden, I will read that guide too (I have plenty of material to read to begin getting involved! :) )
<jmarsden> Yes, there's no shortage of reading material :)
<Edwin_ach> yes, there are a lot of links in the GettingStarted and PackagingGuide/Complete that will be useful :)
<Edwin_ach> thank you jmarsden & ScottK for the links
<Edwin_ach> I will have beginning to read (and sleep a little too, since in Central America is 1:35am XD )
<Edwin_ach> thanks in advance guys for your useful help!!!
<slytherin> If DVD is not auto mounting, which package is at fault in karmic?
<stochastic> is there any way to tell why a package is in multiverse?
<stochastic> * rather than universe
<Elbrus> stochastic: usually the license
<Elbrus> or that of it rdepends
 * Elbrus thinks
<stochastic> hmm, must be its rdepends
<slytherin> stochastic: not rdepends, but build or runtime depends
<slytherin> stochastic: which package is it by the way?
<stochastic> Elbrus, http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/xjadeo
<stochastic> sorry, slytherin, http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/xjadeo
<stochastic> is it because of the "or" in the control file?
<siretart`> morning
<slytherin> stochastic: in this case probably because it recommends mencoder and transcode. Both of them are in multiverse.
<stochastic> slytherin, so a recommends can be enough to put something into multiverse?  interesting.
<slytherin> stochastic: AFAIK, yes
<slytherin> stochastic: since recommends are installed by default
<stochastic> oh yeah, I forgot about that
<jmarsden> It might be worth turning them into Suggests: and moving it to universe, if that is the only reason for it being in multiverse?
<stochastic> jmarsden, good idea.
<stochastic> Is there a method to determine why a package is installed on a system?
<Elbrus> you mean, as in if it was manually installed or due to a dependency?
<Elbrus> the answer to that is yes, but I don't now how exactly
<Elbrus> look for dkpg I think
<jmarsden> stochastic: aptitude why
<stochastic> jmarsden I'd like to find out which program installed ttf-mscorefonts-installer
<jmarsden> stochastic: What does aptitude why ttf-mscorefonts-installer   say ?
<jmarsden> My guess would be gnumeric
<stochastic> jmarsden, ubuntu-restricted-extras
<stochastic> thanks, that's the info I needed.
<jmarsden> No problem.
<siretart`> slytherin: IMO we should promote mencoder and transcode to universe,
<siretart`> though. at least in mplayer, there is no 'non-free' piece in it.
<siretart`> haven't checked transcode, but I don't expect anything evil there as well
<slytherin> siretart`: I think it is more about the patented codecs that mencoder or trancode allows you to use. But I am no expert in that regard.
<\sh> so..done with my merges
<siretart`> slytherin: you might note that we already promoted x264 and
<siretart`> vlc. patents are no longer reason for multiverse. only licensing matters
<\sh> transcode uses patented codecs? I thought it's using whats ffmpeg and mencode delivers
<siretart`> IIRC transcode implements many encoders itself
<siretart`> err, s/encoders/muxers/
<\sh> which is a different story ;)
<siretart`> not really
<siretart`> avi is patented as well AFAIUI
<\sh> siretart, you mean avi container
<twisted_> someone say something entertaining
<dholbach> good morning
<twisted_> morning
<slytherin> twisted_: Your name looks twisted. :-P
<twisted_> got the nickname in the army,   melted the barrel of my rifle on accident, it  was twisted and bent
<echol> good afternoon
<echol> How to join MOTU?
<tsimpson> echol: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
 * Laney stretches
<Laney> morning folks
<echol> I am here PM
<echol> China
 * slytherin is glad MoM is back.
<echol> 2009å¹´ 11æ 06æ¥ ææäº 16:50:43 CST
<\sh> hmm...something broke the planet...noupdates (even jono has written two new articles)
<av`> ScottK, nicotine was uploaded to lucid already, you should be able to process the SRU now :)
<av`> slytherin, use the brand new bzr merge thing instead of mom now!
<slytherin> av`: I am not comfortable with DVCS. I still love svn.
<av`> oh ok then :) thought you didnt know about that
<slytherin> av`: I didn't and the reason is that I don't use bzr. :-)
<av`> fine, then :)
<siretart`> \sh: yes.
<hyperqbe> Newbie Q: Is there a reason why the output of debdiff would not include my changes to debian/changelog?
<Laney> you didn't do them
<Laney> you didn't build the source package
<Laney> you are debdiffing against the wrong thing
<hyperqbe> good answers... i double checked the first two
<hyperqbe> let me triple check.
<slytherin> dtchen: is there any known issue about cracking sound with pulseaudio on powerpc ?
<hyperqbe> Laney, thanks... I was indeed debdiffing the wrong thing.  When I added the changelog entry, it had a new name for the .dsc file
<slytherin> NCommander: ping
<NCommander> slytherin, png
 * Laney is going to upload ubuntu-dev-tools
<slytherin> NCommander: Do you by any chance remember the kernel panic issue (discussed long time back) with b43/rfkill combination on powerpc?
<NCommander> slytherin, no
<slytherin> NCommander: Ok. The issue is more severe now. :-( bug 476154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476154 in linux "Stack trace on console, can not do clean shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476154
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> slytherin, I still can't reproduce. ENOB43
<Laney> geser: any reason not to upload udt?
<slytherin> NCommander: I am glad that you can't reproduce it. Believe me, it is very irritating.
<NCommander> slytherin, no, if I could< I would do something about it >.<;
<slytherin> I am wondering how much of this is caused by rfkill rewrite in .31 kernel
<slytherin> I will also try changing firmware to http://www.ing.unibs.it/openfwwf/
<slytherin> looks like I will need to version of firmware. http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#firmware
<hyperqbe> I was investigating a bug and found that there was a Debian bug for the same thing.  Should I do anything other than put a comment pointing to the debian bug?
<Laney> geser: uploaded now ;)
<gomersion> 5
<wrapster> if i say apt-cache show <pkg A> then it will look at the source.lst and pull in the info from there right?
<wrapster> its a very intriguing scenario here.. thats y asking you people...
<joaopinto> wrapster, no, apt-cache will look at yout current apt cache, which is not related to the curent source.lst state
<joaopinto> source.list is used during the cache update process, using apt-get update
<wrapster> oh...
<wrapster> joaopinto: where would the current apt-cache be located..
<wrapster> var/cache/apt/archives ?
<slytherin> wrapster: /var/lib/apt/lists/
<wrapster> slytherin: if you dont mind.. could you pls explain to me, who/ how its written... coz i see differnt entries of it on 2 separate machine that im working on.. and its causing major issues...
<joaopinto> wrapster, what problem are you experiencing ?
<joaopinto> if you want to learn about apt tou could check the source :)
<wrapster> joaopinto: http://pastie.org/686341
<wrapster> before the .... is from one machine and after the .... is from another machine..
<wrapster> there is huge diff... and how is it?
<joaopinto> wrapster, apt-cache policy package
<joaopinto> the different is that you have different versions available for the same package on one of the machines
<joaopinto> difference
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah i know that.. I had to make a few mods so bumped the version no...
<wrapster> but now eventhough the pkg is installed ... i cant see its effect..
<wrapster> one moment pls ill do a pastie ...
<joaopinto> wrapster, so what is your doubt about the differences ?
<joaopinto> on the first machine, you have nexenta1 installed, and nexenta2 available
<joaopinto> on the other machine, you have only nexenta3 available
<wrapster> joaopinto: http://pastie.org/686374
<joaopinto> wrapster, why was the package expected to be listed if is not installed ?
<wrapster> and apart from bumping the version there were no changes made to that pkg as a whole at all..
<wrapster> it is installed.. you do see libnspr4-dev right...
<wrapster> in the latest pastie
<joaopinto> wrapster, dpkg -L libnspr4 | grep  nspr.h
<joaopinto> ops,.. -dev
<wrapster> ok.
<wrapster> ah.. I can see it present in one pkg while not in the other...
<wrapster> how is that possible?
<wrapster> playing around with the source?
<wrapster> but surprisingly.. I was the one who built /installed these pkgs.. on both machines.... it really worked
<joaopinto> wrapster, you are doing some trivial mistake with your package management, nothing we can help you with, just get out of the computer, get some fresh air, it will look fine when you come back :)
<wrapster> hee hee...
<wrapster> ok thanks for the advice.. at least happy to know its a trival issue... :)
<wrapster> hope trivial wont torment me :p
<slytherin> wrapster: dpkg -S needs full path of the file
<jpds> Of you could just use apt-file.
<joaopinto> slytherin, dpkg -S does work with a filename
<geser> Laney: thanks for doing the upload
<Laney> np
<Laney> how do we do the SRU?
<Laney> just the whole thing?
<geser> I just wanted to pick the changes to change the default (less testing for possible regressions)
<Elbrus> hyperair: you were fast with bug 476333 thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476333 in codelite "codelite: should recommend xterm | x-terminal-emulator instead of just xterm" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476333
<Laney> makes sense
<ttx> I'm trying to run "bzr mark-uploaded" after uploading a merge and before doing the "bzr push", but I get "bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: lucid"
<ttx> anyone else tried to do merges following DistributedDevelopment ?
<hyperair> Elbrus: np
<hyperair> Elbrus: actually i should change it back to inprogress. i found more xterm references.
<ScottK> av`: pitti took care of it.  In future, please make sure to close the bug on the changelog so the status is clear.
<av`> ScottK, yes, forget to add that on the lucid task :)
<falktx> aynone can tell me what is the fastest way to create man pages?
<falktx> are there tools for that?
<falktx> or just need to write the full thing manually?
<randomaction> falktx: help2man
<falktx> will try that
<randomaction> but writing by hand is not too hard imo
<falktx> i hope it doesn't
<falktx> the only thing i've left to do in my package is the manpages
<falktx> I don't really need to create a man page for *all* binaries in my package, do I?
<falktx> (for revu)
<joaopinto> afaik manpages are not required but recommended
<mdomsch> does anyone here know what software ubuntu uses for their ipv6 torrent tracker?
<mdomsch> perhaps opentracker built for ipv6?
<slytherin> falktx: manpages are recommended not a requirement
<falktx> ok
<falktx> i'll write the most important ones
<falktx> can i use something like man --page=/path
<falktx> ?
<pochu> you can do man ./foo.1
<falktx> lol
<falktx> that simple...
<randomaction> What do different colours mean in MoM?
<JonyBlaze> i have a program that I would like to package but it doesnt install itself to /usr/bin what would be the best way to fix that?
<echol> night
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: Where does it install?
<JonyBlaze> it just leaves it in the source dir
<echol> shell?
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: what program is it?
<JonyBlaze> where it gets built
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: and what build system does it use?
<JonyBlaze> QT
<JonyBlaze> http://code.google.com/p/pep8-1/
<gomersion> Hi all. I have recently posted a bug report here on launchpad. I have subsequently seen that the packe I referred to "is not linked to an upstream package". Does anyone know how, or what the criteria are for a package to be linked to upstream? The bug ref is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smbldap-tools/+bug/476361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476361 in smbldap-tools "New upstream version available" [Undecided,New]
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: QT is a toolkit. I am asking about build system like make, cmake, ant etc.
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: well it uses qmake
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: to make a makefile, then you use make to build it
<wrapster> even though i have libc.so.1 present in /usr/lib...
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: then doesn't it have a install target, something like qmake install
<wrapster> Why is it that i get an error like this "dh_shlibdeps -l/usr/lib:/lib;;;;;;;;dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: couldn't find library libc.so.1 needed by debian/libnspr4-0d/usr/lib/libplds4.so.0d (its RPATH is '/usr/lib').
<wrapster> "
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: it doesnt, i cant change that but would the created package know how to uninstall it?
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: then in that case you can simply what files to put where in debian/install file.
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: ok, I also want to have it make a menu entry and an icon so that is where I would put those as well I take it
<slytherin> JonyBlaze: right, provided you have them already.
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: right
<JonyBlaze> slytherin: thank you for the help
<slytherin> welcome
<JonyBlaze> what debian/install file :)
<JonyBlaze> ive been had
<JonyBlaze> lol
<pmcenery> lbrinkma: I see you updated 476361
<fabrice_sp> bug #476361
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476361 in smbldap-tools "New upstream version available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476361
<pmcenery> Have you somehow linked it to upstream now?
<pmcenery> Sorry... do you have to put a # in front of the bug number to get it to automatically come up
<fabrice_sp> you have to put bug :-)
<pmcenery> thanks. will do so in future
<falktx> ayone available for a final revu?
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qtsixa
<RainCT> wow, nano now has syntax highlight for source.list \o/
<lbrinkma> pmcenery, i had found the upstream bug tracker, but i don't linked it, because the package is alredy building
<bdrung> bigon: did you upload gajim to karmic-proposed?
<pmcenery> lbrinkma: How if you dont mind... do you (a) get some package to build like you did there, and (b) how do you "link" a package to upstream so its automatically pulled in?
<lbrinkma> pmcenery: i don't know what you?
<pmcenery> lbrinkma: I am just interested in the process of how that package build was not "activated" if you like, seeing as it has not been building up to now.
<pmcenery> lbrinkma: but now it has been set to build. Was that something you had to initiate?
<lbrinkma> pmcenery: now i understand
<lbrinkma> pmcenery: does this answer your question: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
<pmcenery> lbrinkma: Partly. Did you upload a new package, presumably from the latest debian source package?
<bigon> bdrung_: not yet (for gajum upload)
<bdrung_> bigon: when will you do it? or should i do it?
<JonyBlaze> anyone know of a very simple qt program in the repos that i can look at as an example to try a figure out how to package an app?
<RoAk> heya guys anyoine has a link that shows how to use pbuilder-dist?
<c_korn> can I add an argument to cmake using dh7 without needing to override dh_auto_configure ?
<RoAk> RainCT, what did I do wrong: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/311792/
<RainCT> RoAk: try with just "pbuilder-dist karmic create"
<RoAk> RainCT, and how would I be able to add the repos for universe/multiverse?
<RainCT> RoAk: should be in there by default
<RoAk> RainCT, ok awesome. Thansk a lot :)
<sebner> Roak: else just edit pbuilder.rc and add COMPOMENTS="main restricted multiverse universe"
<RoAk> sebner, ok will do if it's not default :) thanks for the tip
<Laney> .pbuilderrc isn't it?
<c_korn> does aclocal generate wrong code ? http://pastebin.com/d1f02d21c
<RainCT> right
 * Laney nibbles
<sebner> and COMPONENTS rather than COMPOMENTS *gg*
<sebner> c_korn: did you patch configure or the makefiles?
<c_korn> sebner: I just created them using the autogen.sh http://pastebin.com/d662a3e3a
<sebner> c_korn: post the configure line which fails (and some lines above and below)
<c_korn> line 8: http://pastebin.com/d2b3ff4c6
<sebner> c_korn: failure found: fiif should rather be fi and if. don't you think so?
<c_korn> of course. but why does aclocal do that ? a bug ? this is the configure.ac http://pastebin.com/d556b3aaa
<directhex> poor MTecknology
<sebner> c_korn: wondering too, I'm not really an autofoo expert myself :\
<c_korn> I found this Debian bug where the error also occured but I don't see how it has been fixed. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=543082
<ubottu> Debian bug 543082 in crystalspace "crystalspace: FTBFS: syntax error near unexpected token `then'" [Serious,Fixed]
<sebner> c_korn: if there is no patch or anything visible in rules it might have been fixed upstream (svn)
<Hrun> hi, i downloaded a source package, but the owner is root... how can i build it as myself?
<fabrice_sp__> Hrun, did you used apt-get source to retrieve the source?
<jdong> Hrun: more importantly, did you use sudo apt-get source instead of using apt-get source?
<ScottK> Hrun: Don't download it as root (apt-get source, not sudo apt-get source)
<jdong> *grins* 3 variants of the same answer
<fabrice_sp__> lol
<Hrun> i did a sudo apt indeed, i think i copy/paste it from the wiki. i'll get it as myself instead. how do i remove the source? just rm, because i could not find a apt-get remove source command.
<jdong> just rm -rf the directory that it unpacked
<ScottK> Hrun: What wiki
<jdong> and the associated files.
<ScottK> (with sudo)
<jdong> and yeah, the wiki should be corrected if it says to sudo apt-get source
<ScottK> Be very careful with sudo rm -rf
<Hrun> :)
 * jdong gets ready to migrate his build-ish server to btrfs
<jdong> XFS you served me well for the past 4 years, but your rm -rf performance sucks.
<lfaraone> Can I put in a sync request for a stable release? (ie sync a patch applied in debian to karmic, when no other changes have been made to the package)
<ScottK> lfaraone: No.
<ScottK> You need to get it into Lucid first (sync that) and then do an SRU
<lfaraone> ScottK: ah, okay.
<lfaraone> Hm. Maybe the requestsync tool should warn somebody about that before they submit a report...
 * lfaraone goes off to implement a feature.
<RoAk> has anyone created a lucid pbuilder without any problem yet?
<mok0> RoAk:  I've made an sbuilder without problems
<RoAk> mok0, any ideas of how I would troubleshoot and error in the creation that tells me to run 'apt-get -f install' ?
<maxb> What determines whether a package has package branches yet?
<maxb> e.g. python-defaults doesn't
<serialorder_> do people have a quick way to grab a package source from the debian repositories ?
<sebner> serialorder_: pull-debian-source foobar
<serialorder_> apt-get source is nice and easy for ubuntu package source, is there something similar that works for debian?
<serialorder_> awesome! thanks
<MTecknology> directhex: hm?
<directhex> MTecknology, i sense frustration in your "please stop replying :(" responses to the eleventeen million duplicates of the nspluginwrapper/GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS bug
<MTecknology> directhex: no frustration when I sent it; just tacked a message on the duplicated - they should have had a message added when they were filed anyway
<jdong> I think setting GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS=1 fixes it. I'll open up a new bug!
<jdong> (hahaha *DUCKS*)
<Amaranth> jdong: I kill you
<MTecknology> jdong: it's not me you need to fear ;) ^^
<Amaranth> Everyone keeps blaming compiz :(
<jdong> obviously not!
<Amaranth> Maybe I should explain passive X grabs to them
<jdong> Amaranth: oh I've been meaning to ask you.. Compiz is making pbuilder slow.
<Amaranth> s/X/X input/
<jdong> hahaha now you' re goona kill me for real
<Amaranth> jdong: Wha?
 * Amaranth gets the bat
<JonyBlaze> if I send a package to my ppa and it fails to build then i delete it and fix the problem why does it say its already accepted and I have to change the version
<JonyBlaze> before i can upload it
<Amaranth> JonyBlaze: It keeps a record of everything uploaded, deleted or not
<Amaranth> I wonder if that's per-PPA or global...
<jdong> per-ppa
<JonyBlaze> Amaranth: but it failed to build
<Amaranth> JonyBlaze: But you uploaded it
<jdong> sources exist even if the binaries don't build
<Amaranth> JonyBlaze: Once you upload something you can't use that version again no matter what
<jdong> and not just can't... really you shouldn't even if you can.
<JonyBlaze> Amaranth: ok thanks, it failed because I capitalized the o in Optional >.<
<Amaranth> ouch, I hate it when I make silly mistakes like that
<Amaranth> Then everyone knows because you've got a ~ppa6 version on the end
<JonyBlaze> (in the control file)
<JonyBlaze> lol
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I've gotten higher before ;-)
<Amaranth> (I used to actually end up with that many mistakes when doing manual compiz backports)
<jdong> but fortunately, in private repos
<Amaranth> But I made the same mistakes every single update which was the most frustrating
<MTecknology> Amaranth: compiz iz make aptitude sloe
 * Amaranth uses the bat
<MTecknology> lol
 * Amaranth pokes at launchpad
<jdong> compiz is making my videos blue!
<Amaranth> Come on, update the bug title, you know you want to
<jdong> (haha I think that's actually a real bug)
<Amaranth> jdong: That has happened :/
<jdong> (though it's not compizs fault)
<Amaranth> Nope, silly bug in the Xv support in the driver
<jdong> indeed
<Amaranth> overlay Xv still does weird things to compiz
<jdong> but haha boy does that sound like a plausible bug!
<jdong> it's almost like telling keybuk that your bootup is hanging :)
<MTecknology> Can we make a tutorial process that people need to follow before contributing to any part of Launchpad? Example: create account; go through a tutorial before handling bugs; test; they can deal with bugs..... same thing w/ translations and everything else. Nothing hard, just a 10min process or something
 * jdong has some trouble following but 223825
<ScottK> MTecknology: #launchpad-dev
<MTecknology> ScottK: I was only joking
 * jdong goes through the hundred odd motu-sru bug tickets
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-07
<JonyBlaze> anyone want to critique my first package ever (minus the walk-throughs)?
<JonyBlaze> i would like to get it into ubuntu in the future
<JonyBlaze> https://launchpad.net/~ezrareeves/+archive/pep8
<tsimpson> how about uploading it to revu
<JonyBlaze> i would have to build it for lucid for that wouldnt i?
<tsimpson> JonyBlaze: well, if you want it in ubuntu
<tsimpson> besides, it's just a source upload. so just update the changelog
<JonyBlaze> right
<tsimpson> revu lets motu post comments and you can re-upload without bumping the version
<JonyBlaze> ok i will do that then
<Laney> jdong: poor motu-sru!
<jdong> Laney: it's mostly okay; I think karmic response time hasn't been too awful for SRUs
<jdong> I'm making best effort at 24h turnaround
<Laney> did you get put back into the process yet? ;)
<jdong> Laney: nope!
<jdong> and nobody said anything on the list either!
<Laney> pitti made the change iirc - maybe you could ask him directly
<Amaranth> MTecknology: gah, I changed the description for the flash bug too
<MTecknology> Amaranth: same time?
<Amaranth> Apparently
<Amaranth> Or right before you
<MTecknology> lol
<Amaranth> Mine dropped workaround two and added a new workaround three from comment 163
<Amaranth> Seemed like the easiest one of the nspluginwrapper hacks
<Amaranth> and mentioned Chrome users were out of luck entirely
<MTecknology> Amaranth: right after me; yours is the one that took
<MTecknology> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/410407/+activity
<Amaranth> oh, goody
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree "[READ DESCRIPTION] Flash is not recognizing mouse clicks in multiple situations" [High,Confirmed]
<MTecknology> Amaranth: dangit... compiz is breaking my website -_-
 * Amaranth uses the bat again
<MTecknology> Amaranth: my site is kinda broken though..... I'm doing this thing where I try to knock out hundereds of lines of css to make things less bloated and easier to work with (and hopefully not fight nail and teeth to make show up decent in IE6)
<fcuk112> in python there is a section that checks os.environ.has_key("XXX_PATH").  how does XXX_PATH get set here?
<mzz> fcuk112: I don't understand the question
<fcuk112> i mean, how do i find out where this environment variable got set?
<mzz> fcuk112: os.environ is the environment, so on a unixy system you'd do something like "XXX_PATH=foo python ..."
<mzz> fcuk112: or it may already be set in the environment you run python from (try running "echo $XXX_PATH"), or some other bit of python may be adding it to os.environ, or some extension module may be setting it from c
 * dtchen prepares more pulseaudio crack for the lucid crackheads
<mzz> there's not really a callback on setting an env var, you'd have to resort to basic grpping
<mzz> oh wait, this isn't #python
<fcuk112> yea i tried, couldn't see it.
<fcuk112> hehe
<mzz> sorry, bit of a mischan, but I guess what I said still applies
<mzz> fcuk112: is this really literally "XXX_PATH", and what's the context to this?
<jdong> dtchen: you can upload into main, right?
<fcuk112> fixing a tomboy notes screenlets bug, it was pointing to the wrong path.  before that it was trying to source from the env.  but it's all good, i was testing the wrong version of the py script.
<dtchen> jdong: no, I don't have upload privileges.
<dtchen> I think there are a couple people who do lurking about
<serialorder_> why would a debian directory have both a changelog and a changelog.in ?
<serialorder_> if you have package_ver-0ubuntu2 and a recently updated package_ver-1 and no new changes need to be made because of debian's update what should be done?
<dtchen> assuming the orig.tar.foo matches, request a sync from Debian $release
<ajmitch> jdong: I have upload rights but no bandwidth here
<jdong> dtchen: can I get your opinion/blessing on the debdiff proposed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/330766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330766 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio hangs, prevents login, home as ntfs" [Unknown,Fix released]
<serialorder_> dtchen, its not a sync because ubuntu makes some changes it just happens that ubuntu packaged the new version before debian so the ubuntu specific deltas need to be preserved its just that debian didnt introduce anything new
<serialorder_> i dont know if that is clear enough
<ajmitch> serialorder_: then make package_ver-1ubuntu with the debian revision as a base, with the ubuntu changes you need to keep
 * ScottK hands ajmitch another '1'.
<ajmitch> just say "Merge from Debian Squeeze, remaining changes:" or something similar
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, typing via ssh from a conference :)
<ScottK> I figured you knew, but just in case someone else thought that was correct.
<ajmitch> yes sorry, i was typing too fast to check :)
<serialorder_> ajmitch, when I list the remaining changes in the changelog should I retype them from before or just put a refernece  the original versions that introduced the changes?
<ajmitch> list all changes that still affect the version you're working on
<ajmitch> and list changes that you've dropped since the last version, too
<ScottK> serialorder_: The next person that comes along to look at the package should be able to understand both the what and the why of the difference from Debian with just that changelog entry.
<serialorder_> ok so then it is not sufficient to just list the entries lower in the changelog that specify why, that is good to know
<ScottK> Since we do team maintenance here, it should be easy for anyone picking up the package to understand what's up with it.
<serialorder_> should i list which versions the deltas are preserved from as well?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Current state is what's important.
<ScottK> When I do a merge, I have a habit of just dropping any undocumented changes I find unless it's obvious why they are needed (and then I document them).
<ScottK> 3 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/rules.rej
<ScottK> 5 out of 5 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej
<ScottK> \o/
<ScottK> So much for the easy way.
<JontheEchidna> Was there ever a source format 2.0?
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Google wig and pen.  Never deployed.  Heavily bike shedded over the years.
<JontheEchidna> Interesting.
<ScottK> So now which goes faster?  The laptop battery (11% and declining) or the tarball upload?
<ajmitch> my laptop is working remarkably well in karmic now... except for important things like the cooling fans
<ajmitch> even suspend/hibernate is working, so it's strange that the fan part of the ACPI info is just missing
<ScottK> Easily worked around with a bag of ice.
<ajmitch> except that I have it on my lap at pycon
<ajmitch> I think I'll upgrade the BIOS before filing a bug about it
<fcuk112> is launchpad.net running ok for you guys?  i am getting timeout errors.
<ScottK> That's not rare.
<p3rror> please can you explain the memory process when you do a SQL select on a table
<lifeless> not really, thats more #mysql or #drizzle or #postgresql or ....
 * ScottK gives up on trying to figure out if there is a way to get the laptop on the other side of the room to unsuspend so he can ssh into it and avoid getting up off the couch.
<pmcenery> Does anybody have any recommendations on a pbuilder environment. What I mean by this is... for me, I dont really want my primary workstation to be bloated with packages. Instead, I'm thinking of either schroot for a couple of different pbuilder environments, or possibly lxc. Is there anyone who uses this sort of config for their build environment who has some valuable advice on the subject?
<dtchen> pmcenery: well, I tend to have multiple pbuilders, sbuilds, schroots all hooked to an apt-cacher-ng instance on the host. That way it doesn't really matter about "bloating".
<dtchen> jdong: looks sane, of course
<dtchen> christoph's comment is nicely irrelevant, and the workaround is pretty kludgy
<jdong> dtchen: *nods* thanks for the input
<jdong> ScottK: ^^ based on that, and ebroder uploaded a new debdiff with correct versioning, could you do the honor of uploading to main?
<ScottK> jdong: What bug again?  I'll probably put it off until tomorrow since I'm very tired and making silly mistakes at the moment.
<jdong> ScottK: bug 330766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330766 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio hangs, prevents login, home as ntfs" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330766
<jdong> thanks, Scott :)
<pmcenery> dtchen: thanks for the info.
<dtchen> yw
<ScottK> OK.  Got it.  Off to crash now.
<jdong> good night!
<astechgeek> Is the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list for Mentors or people looking for mentors?
<jmarsden> astechgeek: The latter, I think, but some mentors are subscribed to it too.
<astechgeek> okay just wanted to make sure I didn't want to subscribe being that Im looking to get involved and have no clue where to start
<jmarsden> astechgeek: You can read the archives at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu-mentors/ before you subscribe...
<astechgeek> I was reading through the articles on the ubuntu wiki about getting involved...
<jmarsden> Good :)
<astechgeek> as a noob where would be the best place to go to get started in contributing?
<jmarsden> Well, it depends how fast you learn... if you want to contribute in MOTU-like work, you can use the six steps in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted as a guide, and ask questions here in #ubuntu-motu
<jmarsden> If after reading some of the material you decide packaging is too technical for you, consider joining the bugsquad and doing bug triage, etc to start with, maybe?
<astechgeek> i have programming exp but don't feel confident enough to try the development side
<jmarsden> MOTU stuff is more about basic scripting and use of tools than deep programming knowledge.
<astechgeek> okay what about the bugsquad?
<jmarsden> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
<astechgeek> do they have a channel?
<dtchen> #ubuntu-bugs
<jmarsden> It's often more about asking bug reporters for more more info and duplicating bugs reports than deep debugging..., and yes, #ubuntu-bugs
<astechgeek> simple enough :-D
<astechgeek> thanks for the help, the descriptions will help ensure that I get involved with something that I'm comfortable with.
<jmarsden> No problem, and welcome :)
<MTecknology> Amaranth: compiz is breaking java too..... I don't use compiz but... ya know... it's not working :P
<MTecknology> g'night all
<ripps> I'm want to apply to become a MOTU, I want to know if anybody can look over my wiki and tell me what else I can do. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ripps818
<slytherin> ripps: have you done any contribution in terms of packaging in Ubuntu?
<ripps> slytherin: I maintain 100+ packages in the gmpc-trunk team ppa's. I've also created several new packages that have gotten into Debian and then synced into Ubuntu
<slytherin> ripps: PPAs are not official repository. And Debian is not Ubuntu. :-)
<ripps> slytherin: well, I've tried time and time again to get packages through REVU, but it never pans out and I'm always ignored.
<slytherin> ripps: thing is that if you want to apply for MOTU membership you need to demonstrate that you have helped packaging in Ubuntu directly and you blend in the community.
<hyperair> slytherin: but packaging stuff for debian which get synced into ubuntu is recognized
<slytherin> ripps: new packages is not the only way to help. You can fix existing packages.
<ripps> I've made a few patched packages that I've offered up in my Testing PPA, like a focus glitch in compiz-plugins-main. It was fixed in Karmic, but I still have the Jaunty package in there.
<slytherin> hyperair: not necessarily always. You can not get motu membership simply on the basis of youe debian work.
<ripps> I'd gladly participate more with package fixing and new software in Ubuntu, but It always seems that nobody notices when I try to help. Maybe I'm just not vocal enough
<slytherin> ripps: no. we are always short on manpower
<hyperair> slytherin: true, but almost all my work in ubuntu is pushed in through debian. more people benefit that way.
<slytherin> hyperair: I know.
<ripps> Well, I have a few packages sitting in Debian Mentors, but I haven't been able to get anybody to sponsor it yet. If I upload it to REVU, can I get some help getting it accepted?
<hyperair> ripps: you have to poke people here
<ripps> I have, many times, but I'm usually ignored....
<hyperair> ripps: try again >_>
<hyperair> not everybody's free all the time
<hyperair> if you just try a few times and give up, it's never going in
<hyperair> i find it's easier to find a sponsor here than in debian mentors
<hyperair> i've got a few packages sitting in mentors for months on end
<fabrice_sp> in general, you will get more attention fixing existing packages than bringing new packages to Ubuntu
<slytherin> ripps: That is the reason I said fixing up existing packages is better way to contribute. Once you are known in community it is easier to find sponsors for new packages.
<ripps> Well, I have an updated liburiparser package, anybody interested in looking at it?
<fabrice_sp> bug?
<ripps> fabrice_sp: well, it's a requirement in order to get libxspf in, which is being called on increasingly in upstream for xspf playlist support
<fabrice_sp> is there any bug number in launchpad?
<fabrice_sp> for the new version upgrading
<ripps> fabrice_sp: I don't see any launchpad bugs...
<hyperair> ripps: imo the best way to handle getting packages into ubuntu is to get the update into debian, and then handle the sync/merge in ubuntu yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it.
<ripps> hyperair: I know, I did that with the libcue package I made
<hyperair> well yeah, handle a few more and then apply for motuship or contributing-developer status
<hyperair> contribution first, status/upload rights later
<fabrice_sp> when beginning to contribute, I discover that you should be more proactive in opening bug reports to fix things, and open new ones to get your  stuff sponsored.
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> devs, I have a question
<fabrice_sp> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<ari-tczew> package in karmic have a patch, but unstable & testing have a new upstream version in repositories which these new versions have patch applied upstream. can is it a sync into lucid?
<fabrice_sp> sounds like yes
<fabrice_sp> if the patch has been integrated upstream, and the new package works (builds/installs/runs) fine, yes
<ari-tczew> I guess that isn't can done by Ubuntu Archive Autosync, so do I need to open a sync request, right?
<ari-tczew> of course including buildlog and information that patch has been applied upstream
<fabrice_sp> yes
<ari-tczew> ok, thanks ;-)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: In this cycle's moment sync's requests needs MOTU ack?
<ari-tczew> or only sponsor?
<fabrice_sp> sponsors
<ari-tczew> ok
<fabrice_sp> motu-release subscription is when feature freeze is on
<fabrice_sp> got to go. Bye
<ari-tczew> ok bye
<Nafallo> bdrung: no
<bdrung> Nafallo: ?
<Nafallo> 18:03:23 #ubuntu-motu: < bdrung> bigon: did you upload gajim to karmic-proposed?
<Nafallo> doh
<bdrung> k
 * Nafallo should stop hilighting on gajim / wake up :-P
<randomaction> Packages uploaded to REVU should target lucid, right? REVU complains: "Package is for "lucid" but only packages for "karmic" are currently accepted."
<mok0> randomaction: that's abug
<randomaction> I guess someone should update current development target
<mok0> yeah
<randomaction> is it worth filing a bug at LP?
<mok0> You could
<mok0> REVU has a project there
<mok0> Then the devs wont forget :)
<randomaction> ok, will do
<mok0> Great, thx
<geser> when merging an Ubuntu changelog into the Debian one, do we sort the Ubuntu changes by version or by date?
<ari-tczew> I guess that by version
<hyperair> by date would make things very confusing imo
<ari-tczew> what is it a thing called an 'Ubuntu delta'?
<geser> Ubuntu delta = differences between the Debian package and the Ubuntu one
<ari-tczew> ok thnx
<diwic> While trying to create a pbuilder environment for lucid, I ran into the following error: diff: PreDepends: diffutils but it is not installed
<diwic> Any ideas?
<ari-tczew> bugs looking for sponsors - merge to lucid:
<ari-tczew> bug #477387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477387 in drupal5 "Please merge drupal5 5.20-1 (universe) from Debian squeeze (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477387
<ari-tczew> bug #477389
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477389 in drupal6 "Please merge drupal6 6.14-1 (universe) from Debian squeeze (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477389
<c_korn> what is the correct why of a -dev package to depend on the library package ? I get lintian warnings with both binary:Version and source:Version
<geser> what exactly did you put into debian/control?
<ScottK> Possible new packaging opportunity coming our way; http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2009/11/skype_open_source.html
<hyperair> ScottK: i was thinking about that as well, but it seems that the protocol remains close sourced.
<ScottK> hyperair: It will no doubt, have to go in Multiverse, but having it in the repos would be an improvement
<hyperair> ScottK: do binary blobs go in multiverse?
<ScottK> hyperair: If they are redistributable.
<hyperair> chances are that the protocol library will remain a binary blob if it isn't opened as well
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> so they can eh..
<ScottK> Absolutely.
<ScottK> Pretty much the only requirement for Multiverse is that it be legal for Canonical and it's mirrors to distribute.
<hyperair> ah i see
<ScottK> We have at least one package that even says something like "and if there's a conflict between what's in the license and what's needed for normal Ubuntu distribution, then the distribution's needs are OK".
<Amaranth> Hey we can add skype support to telepathy
<hyperair> that would be interesting
<hyperair> but i'd really really prefer to see metacontact support on empathy first >_>
<ripps> c_korn: foobar (= ${binary:Version})
<hyperair> for some of my contacts, i've got 3-4 duplicates
<geser> jdong: could you please ACK the SRU for bug #472824
<hyperair> it's the main reason i'm sticking by pidgin for the time being
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 472824 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Change defaults for 'requestsync' and 'pull-debian-source' to 'testing'" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472824
<c_korn> ripps: this gives me an error that the dependency is too strict. (the -dev package is arch-indep)
<geser> c_korn: no .a file in the -dev package?
<c_korn> geser: no, no static libs. just headers and .so symlinks.
<ripps> c_korn: pastebin the error that lintian is giving you
<geser> c_korn: then try >= , like libpurple-dev does it too
<c_korn> this is the error with = ${binary:Version}
<ScottK> jdong: 330766 needs a TEST CASE:
<c_korn> with >= ${source:Version} I get this error: http://pastebin.com/d5dd6ec96
<c_korn> and a similar one with >=${binary:Version} http://pastebin.com/d52b323a1
<c_korn> oh, I have forgotten the link in the = ${binary:Version} case. this is it: http://pastebin.com/d2a3e26aa
<c_korn> and just for completeness the = ${source:Version} dependency: http://pastebin.com/d5a73530c
<geser> c_korn: seems you get a warning either way, so pick one you "like" and overwrite it
<geser> I guess lintian doesn't know yet about arch:all -dev packages
<geser> if you want to get the package into Debian, I suggest using >= ${source:Version} as it's binNMU-safe
<c_korn> geser: ok, thanks.
<jdong> geser: acked
<ScottK> chrisccoulson: runit needs to be fixed in Lucid before I accept the SRU (439049)
<chrisccoulson> ScottK - no problem. I can do an upload to Lucid too
<chrisccoulson> ScottK - it's fixed in Lucid now
<ScottK> chrisccoulson: Accepted for karmic-proposed too.
<chrisccoulson> ScottK - thank you
<ScottK> No problem.  My part of the job is easy
<ScottK> chrisccoulson: Would you please look at bug 400839.  I've been working with the uploader, but would like to see him get sponsored by more than just me.  I'd like to get it into Lucid quickly so we can do an SRU.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400839 in gurlchecker "newest gurlchecker segfaults on Karmic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400839
<ScottK> jdong: It'd be nice to get a motu-sru ack for ^^^ too (patch will be the same modulo revision number).
<JonyBlaze> anyone familiar with googlecodes URL syntax as far as making a watchfile
<jdong> ScottK: ok, done :)
<JonyBlaze> err nm
<JonyBlaze> in uscan man page it says you can specify what the current version is on the 2nd line but doesnt show how, anyone know?
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: I don't.  I'd suggest finding an existing package in the archive hosted there and copy.
<Guest34157> I need som help
<ScottK> jdong: Looking at it but getting distracted by filing bugs against our tools
<JonyBlaze> ScottK: my issue is that upstream doesnt use very good versions in the filenames
<JonyBlaze> ScottK: so I changed it for packaging, uscan would check theirs against mine and it wouldnt come up with the right answer
<Guest34157> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<Guest34157> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<Guest34157> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<joaopinto> Guest34157, first you should get  a proper nick :)
<Laney> and stop repeating
<hyperair> Laney: too late
<Laney> what is
<christian_> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<hyperair> Laney: "and stop repeating"
<christian_> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<christian_> How should my rules file look like if the program is using a bash script to install and not a file named setup.py?
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> hyperair: If you mean that he parted, I have that ignored
<Laney> christian_: stop repeating please
<hyperair> Laney: ah.
<ScottK> christian_: My advice is read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html and then ask again after considering it.
 * mok0 doesn't understand why that setup.py vs bash thing should be a problem
<Laney> "All access to Launchpad must be authenticated as an application acting on behalf of a user. It's possible for the user to grant the application only readonly access, but it's not possible to access the APIs anonymously"
<ScottK> Sounds like more user friendly design.
<Laney> I'll just turn that into a warning
<christian_> I followed this guide, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python, and it doesnÂ´t explain how to proceed if the package doesnÂ´t have a setup.py file. Please help me.
<mok0> christian_: are you packaging a python program or module?
<christian_> a python program, djl http://en.djl-linux.org/
<ScottK> jdong and dtchen: Uploaded.
<mok0> christian_: you don't need setup.py. From within rules, do whatever you need to in order to do the build
<christian_> could you explain some more? This is my first package.
<jdong> ScottK: Thanks!
<mok0> christian_: can you write your own setup.py file?
<mok0> christian_: if so, it will make things much easier
<christian_> ok, should I just put the setup.py in the directory then?
<mok0> christian_: yes, that will be ok for starters
<christian_> mok0: Thanks!
<mok0> christian_: then you can use the CDBS system and the rules file will be just a few lines
<sebner> mok0: arghrshsarhgsharhgahgahs.. DH7!!!
<mok0> sebner: bah
<mok0> :)
<mok0> I much prefer makefile macros
<sebner> we have dh7 and quilt now. NO need for something else!
<mok0> sebner, we have GNU make. No need for anything else
<mok0> :)
<sebner> mok0: I forgot to add "which is the best in the world so why using something worse .." ;)
<mok0> sebner: But if you like, you can take over mentoring christian_ in dh7 *shudder*
<ScottK> sebner: quilt is good for complex packages, but has a bit of learning curve.  It's the git of patching systems.
<sebner> ScottK: I've found it always easier than e.g dpatch
<sebner> mok0: I'd recommend DktrKranz who is *the* python with dh7 expert ;)
<mok0> I use quilt
<sebner> \o/
<mok0> I use cdbs
<ScottK> sebner: It doesn't get much easier than dpatch-edit-patch.
<ScottK> Or cdbs-edit-patch
<sebner> ScottK: right but my experience is that it's the easiest and most powerful among all patch systems
<mok0> ScottK: cdbs-edit-patch is quite useful as an introduction anyways, since it's harder to screw up than quilt
<ScottK> Well any system that requires people to set environment variables as the first step fails the easy test.
<ScottK> mok0: Agreed.
<ScottK> I've used quilt enough now that I'm comfortable with it, but it took some time.
<mok0> I've forgotten a few time to "add" a file to quilt, and then it's a real pain to get the patch created
<JonyBlaze> why cant debian/watch just use normal wildcards /sigh
 * DktrKranz is a n00b, sebner probably confused him with someone else
<mok0> JonyBlaze: The perl weirdness is upon us
<JonyBlaze> :(
<goshawk> hi, is there a way to retrieve a package with dget from the debian ftpmaster new section? http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html ?
<ScottK> goshawk: No.  They are not publically available
<goshawk> oh
<christian_> I get this when I am trying to build: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency python-qt4  python-central (>= 0.6.11) dpkg-gencontrol: error: error occurred while parsing Depends field: python-qt4  python-central (>= 0.6.11) dh_gencontrol: dpkg-gencontrol returned exit code 255
<jmarsden> christian_: python-qt4  python-central (>= 0.6.11)   needs a comma in there to separate the two clauses: make it Depends: python-qt4, python-central (>= 0.6.11)
<jmarsden> In general "can't parse" means you made a syntax mistake of some sort.
<christian_> Thanks! LetÂ´s see how things work this time.
<jmarsden> No problem.
<christian_> Worked :-) Should I write something in the changelog about the setup.py file I added?
<mok0> christian_: absolutely
<ScottK> jdong: Unless you tell me otherwise pretty quickly, I'm going to assume your ack on gurlchecker means i can accept it.
<jdong> ScottK: yes sir
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ScottK> Battery is at 5%, so it may not be until after I find power.
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> Just made it.
<christian_> Package is here: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/djl Please comment.
<rlameiro> Good evening/morning/afternoon everyone
<rlameiro> Well I want to start to make packages, what do I need to know before starting?
<rlameiro> Do i need to understand makefiles etc?
<bmm> I want to create a package for a very simple tool which does not have any Makefile and is just a single Python script. ( http://git.logfish.net/?p=shareftp.git;a=commit;h=9bff07bf7b18d19d8d16db0d67d2b31b575c379b ). Should I path a Makefile for the package or is there a nicer way?
<lifeless> bmm: you're going to need a copyright statement at minimum
<lifeless> we don't care about a makefile or not
<bmm> lifeless: I just found out I can remove the /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk include (I'm using CDBS) and then add the files I need into shareftp.install and shareftp.manpages
<bmm> I'm currently going to look up where to install the binary (/bin or /usr/bin) because I'm not sure what the policy is on that yet.
<bmm> :)
<bmm> lifeless: Thank you for you response!
<bmm> OK, that's /usr/bin. Should be ok from here. Thank you for your response.
<rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn
<rlameiro> i am following this tutorial
<rlameiro> but i am stuck in the dh_make
<rlameiro> it gives an error
<rlameiro> lameiro@studio:~/hello/hello-2.4$ dh_make -e lameiro@macinhata.net
<rlameiro> Type of package: single binary, indep binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module, kernel patch or cdbs?
<rlameiro>  [s/i/m/l/k/n/b] s
<rlameiro> Maintainer name : Ricardo da Rocha Lameiro
<rlameiro> Email-Address   : lameiro@macinhata.net
<rlameiro> Date            : Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:38:26 +0000
<rlameiro> Package Name    : hello
<rlameiro> Version         : 2.4
<rlameiro> License         : blank
<rlameiro> Using dpatch    : no
<rlameiro> Using quilt     : no
<rlameiro> Type of Package : Single
<rlameiro> Hit <enter> to confirm:
<rlameiro> Could not find hello-2.4.orig.tar.gz
<rlameiro> Either specify an alternate file to use with -f,
<rlameiro> or add --createorig to create one.
<rlameiro> lameiro@studio:~/hello/hello-2.4$
<rlameiro> that tar doesnt exists
<rlameiro> what exist is the underscore one
<rlameiro> hello_2.4.orig.tar.gz
<ScottK> !pastebin | rlameiro
<ubottu> rlameiro: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<mok0> !pastebin | rlameiro
<rlameiro> sorry
<mok0> Ha, ScottK you beat me to it
<rlameiro> http://paste.ubuntu.com/312812/
<rlameiro> better now?
<mok0> rlameiro: You need to specify the tarball
<rlameiro>  -r ?
<rlameiro> at the tutorial they dont say that :/
<mok0> rlameiro: you need at tarball called "hello-2.4.orig.tar.gz"
<rlameiro> but shouldnt it be with _
<rlameiro> ?
<mok0> rlameiro: which must be in ../ relative to where you execute the commnad
<mok0> yes
<mok0> rlameiro: actually, it doesn't matter what it's called, as long as you specify it with the -f argument
<rlameiro> ah
<rlameiro> ok
<bmm> Is it possible to have "quilt" generate a new file (not in the original source tree)?
<dtchen> sure, via quilt new ... quilt add ... edit ... quilt refresh
<Laney> or quilt shell!
<dtchen> yep, several approaches
<bmm> dtchen: that won't work for new files. If I create the file, then quilt new, quilt add file.txt, quilt refresh it will not see any changes as the file was added after it was created without any changes.
<dtchen> err
<jmarsden> bmm: Don't "create the file" first, create the file using quilt edit
<dtchen> right
<dtchen> I haven't ever created the file first :-)
<bmm> jmarsden: but the files are created with a download script :( I'm trying to do a quick package of cgit and cgit requires me to download the full source of a git release in the source tree.
<bmm> (I know, ugly, but still). So my plan now: make a list of all the files that I need, remove them, quilt add them before they exist, copy them back. Just making sure, that is the best way to do this with quilt?
<Laney> use quilt shell
<bmm> Laney: ah, that may help :D
<bmm> Laney: of to try that...
<bmm> Ah, works like a charm! Great, thanks!
<Laney> good chap!
 * bmm chuckles at the sight of a 9.8M patch
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-08
<wgrant> That sounds very much like a bug in cgit.
<fcuk112> i am a bit confused how to use quilt to patch some code.  do you use quilt after you've created a patch using diff -Nurp old new > test.patch?
<directhex> no
<fcuk112> the guide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems is not very clear.  it talks about editing an existing diff file - what diff file is it talking about?
<fcuk112> never mind, i think i got it.
<JonyBlaze> when a .install file is used does it preserve permissions?
<Laney> it uses cp --parents -dp
<Laney> (yes)
<Laney> but dh_fixperms will change them
<dtchen> ugh, 64-bit-specific asm for arch-any :(
<JonyBlaze> Laney: change them to what? a package im trying to fix keeps installing a config file with 644 it should be 600
<JonyBlaze> Laney: i chmod'd it in rules but it still gets 644
<dtchen> there are unholy ways of fixing permissions
<Laney> JonyBlaze: check out the manpage for dh_fixperms
<JonyBlaze> ok
<Laney> you can exclude
 * Laney -> bed
<JonyBlaze> ok so i would do that in rules at the call i take it
<JonyBlaze> dh_fixperms -X<item> in rules i mean
<dtchen> yes
<JonyBlaze> thnx
<ScottK> Dear everyone:  When you're doing merges, please make sure the Ubuntu diff is still sensible.
 * ScottK just filed to sync something we could have been syncing since Jaunty.
<LucidFox> Should I wait for a package to enter testing before merging?
<randomaction> from u-d-a: "Likewise, package merges from either testing or unstable are perfectly ok, as needed."
<LucidFox> So only autosyncs are affected, basically?
<geser> yes
<Laney> well
<Laney> it just means that you should consider it before you take from unstable
<ari-tczew> do we prefer rather merge new upstream versions from squeeze (testing) instead merging only debian changes?
<DktrKranz> ScottK: have you access to sync-blacklist?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: No.  Needs shell access for that.
<DktrKranz> :(
<DktrKranz> I'll ask james_w or some other a-a tomorrow then, thanks anyway
<c_korn> isn't Categories=Science a main category in karmic ? lintian gives me this warning: http://pastebin.com/d61f302e5
<wrapster> any idea what this error might mean..?http://pastie.org/688808
<wrapster>  here is the prototype_com file @406... first time im handling stuff like these..
<c_korn> wrapster: the patch does not apply on the sources.
<wrapster> c_korn: ok but why? I mean. what can i infer from this error... like, is it a missing file issue, or compatibility of files issue or stuff like that... could you pls narrow it down a bit.. coz im doing it for the first time.
<c_korn> wrapster: open the patch and look what files it changes. then first look if the file it wants to patch exists. if it does take a look at the file which should be patched and find out why it fails to apply.
<c_korn> wrapster: do you know what patch system is used ?
<wrapster> c_korn: no
<wrapster> like i said im just starting... so dont even know where to learn these..
<c_korn> wrapster: type "what-patch" in the source directory
<wrapster> c_korn: what-patch: command not found? .. in which pkg does this fall? (hg?)
<c_korn> wrapster: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools
<wrapster> c_korn: the issue here is im on nexetna and ubuntu-dev-tools which deps on dctrl-tools is not present in the repo..so could you please help me with an alternative?
<wrapster> sorry for asking it in the wrong forum but im just asking for help... even logistics is good enough to learn...
<c_korn> wrapster: ok, do you have the debian/patches directory ?
<wrapster> yes
<c_korn> wrapster: does it contain a series file ?
<wrapster> yes and it also contains this sunw0on-fix(the patch that is causing error)
<c_korn> wrapster: fine. so delete the patch and recreate it: quilt delete <patch-name> ; quilt new <patch-name>
<wrapster> can i use hg instead of quilt..? coz its already installed.
<c_korn> wrapster: you mean mercurial ? this is a version control system. you need a patch system. and quilt is the one which is currently used. it is very simple to use
<wrapster> ok.. done.
<wrapster> one moment.. pls hang on
<wrapster> c_korn: ok i deleted and recreate that patch...
<c_korn> wrapster: ok. then open the patch. and run: quilt edit <file the patch wants to edit>
<c_korn> then do the changes the patch wants to make.
<c_korn> (repeat that with all files the patch wants to change)
<c_korn> at the end run: quilt refresh
<wrapster> ok
<GaryvdM> Hi - I used uscan to download the new version of a package. I then deleted the folder that it created for the new version by mistake, but I still have the .tar.gz - Is there a way that I can get uscan to recreate this folder without redownloaing the .tar.gz?
<GaryvdM> Sorry - Nvm - I managed to recover the folder.
<JonyBlaze> when can i start making packages for lucid?
<Laney> now
<JonyBlaze> so send them to REVU with lucid in the control file?
<Laney> sure
<Laney> finding reviewers is the hard part ;)
<JonyBlaze> heh
<JonyBlaze> err i ment changelog
<JonyBlaze> is that the only change from a karmic package and a lucid package?
<mok0> JonyBlaze: yup
<mok0> JonyBlaze: unless there are toolchain-induced bugs that need fixing
<JonyBlaze> mok0: ok
<JonyBlaze> mok0: thnx
<JonyBlaze> is it a problem if the upstream source files dont have copyright info in every source file?
<eakron> Hello! I'm new to all this but following the excellent session in the Ubuntu Open Week on packaging, I managed to do the example bug fixes and build packages.
<eakron> Now I noticed that in launchpad there are alot of sync requests from debian, is that something I could do? And if so, point me in the right direction on it please =)
<ari-tczew> eakron: more needed is work on ftbfs and merging
<Laney> merges and syncs are part of the same thing
<Laney> eakron: try the link in the topic
<ari-tczew> Laney: at this cycle's moment, syncs request need status New or Confirmed for sponsors?
<ari-tczew> I'm confused
<eakron> thank you!
<Laney> ari-tczew: new
<Laney> sponsors will confirm when subscribing the archive team
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> for merges too?
<Laney> they can be confirmed
<Laney> please fix the docs if this isnt clear
<eakron> Allright, more specifically. I see one of those sync requests, for eg wicd. What should I do, get the debian package, add the ubuntu changelog and set it as ubuntu1, make a debdiff and add it to the sync request?
<ari-tczew> eakron: this is merge, not sync
<ari-tczew> read wiki.ubuntu.com following sync, merge, contributing, sponsors etc.
<eakron> ok, that's just what it was called in launchpad
<Laney> there is no diff for a sync
<Laney> it means that we take the Debian packag exactly as it is
<eakron> but?
<Laney> but?!
<eakron> I checked out grab-merge, it gives me a warning about revision control. I also noticed somewhere it said I should add the ubuntu changelog to the debian package changelog. Is this not so? (ps I just felt like you were about to say but)
<randomaction> eakron: As a contributor, your part of the job is to request a sync. Then it's acked by developers and processed by archive admins.
<ari-tczew> eakron: if it's a sync request, please do build test and attach buildlog
<eakron> that I think I can do, cool
<ari-tczew> but as I said, more to do is merges than syncs
<Laney> no
<ari-tczew> :-/
<Laney> at this point, the merge list is where you find potential syncs
<eakron> ok, I'm confused, what's the difference between syncs and merges again?
<randomaction> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<ari-tczew> e.g. debian has got package called 'x' in version 2.10-1, if Ubuntu doesn't need any changes, then this is sync
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Laney> try that
<eakron> okay
<ThreeOfEight> Hallo, I'm trying to build a package. I've created all necessary files according to the tutorial in the wiki, however, when I try to build it with debuild or dpkg-buildpackage, I get an error from dpkg-source saying something like "Cannot apply changes in (the binary file): Content of binary file has been changed."
<ThreeOfEight> The package is for a game a friend of mine has made, I'm trying to only include the binary file for now, to make things easier.
<ThreeOfEight> This is a tarball of the directory structure I tried it with: http://baaa.ba.funpic.de/upl/file.php?file=31c44b298e6832c3cd96eb7e63a61074
<ThreeOfEight> This is my first time trying to build a package, so I don't know anything about that.
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys anyone else has an error similar to this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/313569/ when creating a pbuilder with pbuilder-dist for lucid?
<eakron> RoAkSoAx: yeah I had the same error
<LaserJock> well, I can't seem to get pbuilder login to work
<ari-tczew> just use ppa
<RoAkSoAx> ok well it seems that we all have the same problem then... :(
<LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: I got that too so I just dist-upgraded a Karmic pbuilder
<LaserJock> my problem is pbuilder login doesn't leave me with a shell
<RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, ok awesome! I'll try that to see what happens
<RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, you mean it shows you something like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/313577/
<LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: yeah, and it just sits there
<RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, try executing commands... because in mine sits there.. but i'm still able to execute commands: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/313582/ I'm guessing it's just an error of displaying the prompt
<dtchen> mine seems ok: root@errno:/#
<LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: ok crazy, yeah I get that too
<LaserJock> so it's just a missing prompt
<dtchen> lucid/amd64 schroot seems okay, too
<LaserJock> dtchen: mine is on all my pbuilder environments
<ThreeOfEight> Anyone who knows something about my building error?
<RoAkSoAx> yeah In my case is in all pbuilder environments as well
<dtchen> fully current karmic-proposed + karmic-updates ?
<kklimonda> LaserJock: not only a prompt - if you try to print something formatted (like output of ls) formatting is removed (colors, columns)
<RoAkSoAx> i'll try adding karmic-proposed and karmic-updates
<JonyBlaze> RoAkSoAx: what is -f for pubuilder-dist?
<RoAkSoAx> JonyBlaze, I don't know exactly actually, I'm guessing is trying to force, since it prompted to use -f there.. so I did
<JonyBlaze> "sudo pbuilder-dist lucid create" seems to be working for me
<RoAkSoAx> not for me unfortunately
<JonyBlaze> nm it failed
<eakron> ok so I looked up bitesized bugs in launchpad, chose one where erlang-doc-html causes erlang-base to be removed (erlang-base conflicts with erlang-doc-html if source version is not the same). What's the best way of changing the source version of erlang-doc-html so erlang-base no longer sees it as conflict?
<janneh> hello.. i have a very basic question:
<janneh> if I change something in the source of an existing ubuntu package and then rebuild it with debuild -S and pbuilder, do I need to install the build-dep packages on my system at any point?
<ThreeOfEight> I'd think so, yes.
<janneh> or are they only needed in the pbuilder part where they are fetched automatically
<ThreeOfEight> okay, I don't know then.
<janneh> ok, np :)
<ThreeOfEight> but
<ThreeOfEight> You only actually do building while inside a pbuilder environment, right?
<janneh> hm I think so... I'll have a better look at what happens during the next build :)
<janneh> i just starting playing around with debian packages etc.
<hyperair> what do you mean install the build-dep packages on your system?
<ThreeOfEight> Well then I guess you won't have to install anything
<kklimonda> janneh: you need at least part of build-deps for debuild -S to work
<ThreeOfEight> Anyway, I'm just a newbie with that, too
<hyperair> pbuilder automatically installs it into a temporary chroot directory.
<kklimonda> janneh: for example if package uses some patch system you need it for debuild -S to run clean target
<janneh> kklimonda: yes I guess that was my question. thx.
<janneh> hyperair: yes, this about pbuilder I knew. but I wasn't sure if any part before pbuilder switches to its chroot any of the build-deps are needed
<hyperair> janneh: ah i see.
<hyperair> unfortunately there's no pre-build-dep
<hyperair> heh
<eakron> ok I was able to make a fix, built it and it works. But debdiff wont work, unable to read the original .dsc. Could this be because I changed the version?
<eakron> the fix was changing the version from 13.b-dfsg1 to 13.b.1-dfsg
<geser> eakron: you changed the version wrongly
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: are you happy if I uploaded a new revision of python-gasp removing -multiprocessing dep (it's available built-it in 2.6)?
<geser> what was the exact version before your modification?
<eakron> erlang-doc-html_13.b-dfsg1-1.dsc before and erlang-doc-html_13.b.1-dfsg-1ubuntu1.dsc after
<eakron> the thing is, the version change IS the fix, as far as I understand
<geser> what was the problem, that you needed to change the upstream version?
<eakron> erlang-base conflicts with erlang-doc-html >> upstream version and << upstream version
<geser> eakron: why not change the conflicts of erlang-base if it's wrong?
<eakron> that was my second idea, I figured this was easier. Also the problem I guess is that erlang-doc-html version was messed up somewhere along the line
<geser> if you change the upstream version you also need to rename the .orig.tar.gz
<eakron> geser: that's the reason it couldn't open .dsc? Cause orig.tar.gz had the wrong name?
<eakron> geser: what do you think is the better solution, changing the conflict in erlang-base or changing the version on doc-html? Apparantly this is not the first time it has happened.
<geser> probably not, but you would probably get a big .tar.gz instead of a .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz (as it couldn't find any .orig.tar.gz for that version)
<geser> eakron: is there a bug describing the problem you try to fix?
<eakron> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/erlang-doc-html/+bug/70745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 70745 in erlang-doc-html "erlang-doc-html conflicts with other erlang packages" [Low,Incomplete]
<geser> eakron: I've done a thorough yet but my guess is that we only synced erlang but not the matching erlang-doc-html :(
<geser> the conflicts look like it should ensure that erlang-base and erlang-doc-base are installed in the same upstream version
<geser> so just changing the version number but not the content doesn't look a good solution
<kklimonda> POX: is python 2.6 going to be default in unstable (when It's uploaded :) )
<eakron> geser: ah I see, I should just drop it then? I did try building it, it works. But no guarantees that the documentation is up to date with the installed erlang-base version then.
<POX> it will be added to supported first
<POX> but you have to ask doko about it (I still hope I will not have to NMU it)
<kklimonda> POX: so no reason to report any bugs other than FTBFS in packages related to Python 2.6? Or does adding it to supported mean that I should report any problems I know about?
<POX> you can report any bug related to python2.6 now
<POX> python2.6 is ni experimental
<geser> eakron: if you're interested in the erlang-* packages watch the lucid packages that it won't happen again, and for karmic I'd talk to the ~motu-sru people if getting erlang-doc-html in the correct version is possible or if they have a better suggestion how to fix it
<POX> but please note that we have different tools in Debian
<kklimonda> I know, I cry everytime I have to dig though your BTS ;)
<POX> I mean, I NMUed cdbs and python-central recently and I used a little bit different approach than ubuntu
<POX> to support 2.6
<POX> my cdbs changes are already in Ubuntu
<kklimonda> POX: no no - the problem is django's unit tests fail with Python 2.6.3 because of some change in python itself
<eakron> geser: thank you for your help =) I did manage to make a working diff now, I'll just add it to the bug report in case someone cares, but comment that the version is probably wrong.
<POX> but from what ScottK told me yesterday, python-central is still not working in Ubuntyu
<POX> kklimonda: report it then
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: Sure.
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: thanks, if you want I can commit on DPMT repo too
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: By all means. (granted, python-gasp still doesn't work in karmic due to a xlib bug, but that's neither here nor there)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-08
<micahg> tumbleweed: I thought that a patch system was not supposed to be added when SRUing
<ScottK> It's not.
<jfer> hi, i am new to packaging and i was wondering what you should put in the section part of the control file
<jfer> i am actually packaging my first package cinelerra for maverick would anyone be able to help me through the process?
<tumbleweed> micahg, ScottK: err yes, you aren't wrong. I guess I'm more permissive of them than I should be and in this case it was unwarranted. Should I ask for a queue rejection?
<dholbach> good morning!
<jfer> i am wanting to package cinelerra for maverick which source should i use?
<sladen> jfer: http://cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.php#ubuntu  there is link there
<jfer> should i get the source from sourceforge or the git repository?
<jfer> how do i find the version of a source?
<geser> dholbach: can you update the Homepage link on https://launchpad.net/harvest?
<dholbach> geser, done
<geser> directhex: have you an idea what caused the FTBFS in dbus-sharp? (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58627499/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.dbus-sharp_0.7.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
<directhex> geser: yes, ricotz has a patch but we haven't had time to apply it
<directhex> it's a bashism
<ScottK> tumbleweed: I can reject it.  What package?
<tumbleweed> ScottK: mongodb
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Rejected.  You can reupload using the same version number when ready.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: thanks, SpamapS consider yourself prodded
<ari-tczew> micahg: denunciator of you
<rhlee> hi guys, I was wondering how to add a page on the ubuntu wiki?
<Pici> rhlee: Go to a page that doesn't exist and it should ask you if you want to create it.
<rhlee> Pici: thanks
<shane4ubuntu> ok, I have a ppa enabled, successfully built and uploaded my package, and I have a question, the package I built now is specified only for Maverick, I assume that is from the changelog file, how can I specify for more than one or all of the ubuntu editions?
<Bachstelze> shane4ubuntu: change maverick to lucid/hardy/whatever in the changelog, it's also a good idea to use different revision numbers (e.g. ~lucidppa1 instead of just ~ppa1)
<Bachstelze> afaik you can't just upload a package once and have it build on all releases
<shane4ubuntu> Bachstelze, ok, thanks!
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: pong.. I am not sure what to do about this SRU
<ScottK> SpamapS: The part where you added a patch system: don't do that.
<SpamapS> honestly I'm pretty much done trying to do anything with MongoDB anymore. Its unbelievable the amount of effort required to change anything that links to xulrunner.
<micahg> SpamapS: do you want me to finish it?
<SpamapS> micahg: I'll finish what I've started. I'm just frustrated with the level of detail required to get it right when if xulrunner had a real library, this would be a non issue.
<micahg> SpamapS: well, it doesn't seem to be a priority for Mozilla ATM, maybe after 4.0 is released we can get it revisited
<SpamapS> ScottK: shouldn't that be mentioned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ScottK> SpamapS: I'd have thought wanting a minimal diff would cover it.
 * micahg remembers seeing it in the docs somehwere
<ScottK> We'd actually prefer people not add a patch system even for the development release except in coordination with the Debian maintainer.
<ScottK> It falls under "don't monkey with the build system Debian set up".
<SpamapS> ScottK: right, so the debian maintainer added it in 1.4...
<micahg> This is the closest I found,https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patching%20Other%20People%27s%20Packages, it used to be clearer
<micahg> SpamapS: but we don't have it in Lucid, so you can't add it
<SpamapS> So I ask again, should I not have a patch, or patch directly in the debian diff?
 * SpamapS first asked in the merge proposal
<micahg> SpamapS: if we end up updating mongodb to a later version due to the xulrunner change, we'll get a patch system with it most likely, but barring that, we can't add patch systems to Debian packages
<micahg> SpamapS: patch the source directly
<ScottK> SpamapS: Make the changes inline (in the upstream code) and then it will appear correctly in the debdiff.
<ScottK> (as micahg says)
<SpamapS> Ok, easy enough to rectify.
<zul> why the hell is mongodb using xulrunner?
<tumbleweed> zul: presumably for mozjs
<highvoltage> dholbach: heyo!
<dholbach> highvoltage, in a call
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok, if you have some time give me a poke, would like to talk about Gediminas's packages some time
<dholbach> highvoltage, can you reply to the emails?
<dholbach> email
<highvoltage> dholbach: I can, it's the content that I need some clarification on. is there any exceptions that can be made, or should I tell him to follow the usual process for all 84 packages?
<kklimonda_> ScottK: if there is a bug in backported package should the bug be reported against ${release}-backports AND package, only ${release}-backports or only package?
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Only against $(release)-backports unless the bug also applies to the development release of Ubuntu, then both.
<ScottK> The preferred solution in these cases is a new backport.
<dholbach> highvoltage, can you follow up and I reply to it tomorrow?
<dholbach> highvoltage, I'm a bit busy right now
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> thanks highvoltage
<kklimonda_> whoa, why does firmware-b43-installer postinst script aborts if it detects wrong card?
<kklimonda_> ah, already reported
<ajmitch> micahg: congratulations :)
<ari-tczew> set topic for him! glory for micahg!
<micahg> ajmitch: thanks :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: thank you
<ari-tczew> micahg: that was ironic...
<micahg> ari-tczew: PM?
<ari-tczew> micahg: do you want me to pick up?
<micahg> ari-tczew: ?
<ari-tczew> micahg: nevermind... come on
<sebner> micahg: congrats :)
<psusi> eh?  what are the congradulations for?
<ScottK> He is MOTU.
 * sebner waves at ScottK :)
 * ebroder suspected that, but irclogs.u.c is lagging
<ebroder> Congrats!
<micahg> sebner: thanks
<psusi> ohh, congrats
<micahg> ebroder: psusi: thanks
<ebroder> (bought time, too :-P)
<psusi> now do you feel like sponsoring the revival of the defrag package? ;)
 * micahg would suggest getting it back in Debian first
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I think if you have an issue with someone, random complaints during a DMB meeting "<ari-tczew> I don't trust that he will work on clean up sponsors queue" are not a very good way to deal with them.  That and I don't understand "<ari-tczew> micahg is building his career by reporting on another folks from IRC rofl" at all, but it sounds childish.
<micahg> bdrung: re sponsors queue, currently main -> 80, universeish -> 5, do you want me to apply for core-dev? ;)
<bdrung> micahg: yes :P
 * micahg reminds chrisccoulson to go for core-dev ^^ :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<bdrung> micahg: keeping the universe queue empty is easy. get enough people doing sponsoring.
<micahg> bdrung: k, I'll try to sponsor at least 1 per week (more if time permits)
<ebroder> micahg: honestly, the universe sponsoring queue seems to be staying short enough that you might have a hard time finding 1 per week needing sponsoring
<micahg> ebroder: well, there's usually a handful available at any one time when I've checked
 * micahg has plenty to do though for the Firefox/Xulrunner transition this cycle
<JontheEchidna> micahg: congrats
<micahg> JontheEchidna: thanks
<tumbleweed> micahg: sorry I missed the meeting, congrats :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: no problem, thanks
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do you want to talk about it?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: We can if you want.  I'm often of the impression that you are trying to be productive, but don't realize how your comments appear to others, so I mention it.  If it's worth discussing, I'm willing to do it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I would, but today I'm busy busy busy busy.
<ScottK> OK.  Let me know if/when you have time and want to discuss it further.
<Rhonda> micahg: grats. Thought you were MOTU for a while already. But then, others thought the same about me. ;)
<ScottK> That's usually a strong sign it's time to apply.
<micahg> Rhonda: thanks
 * ScottK reminds kklimonda he's owing a python-visual fix (including the stack under it).
<kklimonda> ScottK: actually I'm working on it right now :)
<ScottK> kklimonda: Excellent.
<bdrung> is it safe to kill gvfsd and restart it?
<kklimonda> bdrung: yes
<kklimonda> bdrung: you will loose all connections but it won't break your desktop :)
<bdrung> thanks kklimonda - that gives me 2 GiB back without a reboot
<paddy_> I tried to tell bzr about my launchpad account but it says I have no ssh keys, it's right but I have an openPGP key instead, can I not use this?
<kklimonda> paddy_: no, you need a separate ssh key
<paddy_> kklimonda, thanks
<kklimonda> whoa, this optipng stuff is really slow
<kklimonda> I shouldn't have pkgbinarymangler installed in pbuilder..
<geser> I'm not sure but can't you disable this one through the config files?
<achiang> micahg: congrats!
<micahg> achiang: thanks
<paddy_> when I bzr branch I get Agent admitted failure to sign using the key. what is wrong?
<kklimonda> ScottK: When you have some time can you take a look at https://github.com/kklimonda/atkmm1.6 ?
<kklimonda> ScottK: I also got gtkmm and gtkglext built, I'll see if I can get python-visual to build now
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<ScottK> kklimonda: So in terms of the .la file problem, this is just a matter of rebuilding (plus you are making some other improvements)?
<ScottK> It still needs a debian/changelog entry.
<kklimonda> ScottK: yes but gtkglextmm won't build with gtkmm < 2.22.0
<kklimonda> ScottK: yes, but I'd rather know if the rest of packaging makes sense (especially Breaks/Replaces) - adding a full changelog entry is a matter of few keystrokes.
<ScottK> kklimonda: At a glance it does.  I do not, however, seem to find an existing aktmm1.6 package in the archive, so I'm a bit confused.
<kklimonda> ScottK: that's the problem, there was non - until now atkmm was part of gtkmm and it has distributed with binary packages generated from gtkmm2.4
<kklimonda> there was none* even
<ScottK> kklimonda: OK.  I'm starting to understand.  Since this is a new package for Ubuntu, it would be helpful to upload the source to REVU once you've got it ~ there.
<kklimonda> I was hoping I could get it into debian but I got no response in over a week :/
<kklimonda> ScottK: python-visual also builds fine
<ScottK> kklimonda:
<ScottK> Cool.
<kklimonda> ScottK: ok, I'll open a bug on LP and upload atkmm1.6 to revu
<kklimonda> hmm, interesting - update-maintainer sets me as a Maintainer anyway. Is it proper or should I change it to Ubuntu Developers manually?
<kklimonda> oh well, I'll just change it
<kklimonda> ScottK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/atkmm1.6
<JuniperJaxx> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-09
<ScottK> kklimonda: It's proper for you to be the XSBC-Original-Maintainer in this case.
<ScottK> (since you're packaging it)
<dholbach> good morning!
 * lan3y waves
<lan3y> ooer
<dholbach> hey lan3y
 * Laney wriggles... that's better!
<Rhonda> good morgon
<Laney> guten vogon
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: ping
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: I just saw your Core-Dev application. Why did you write "(may be a little late)" ?
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: because I may be at the meeting at 12:10 UTC for example
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: dunno what is clear for other folks. for me it's not clear - It looks just like you should apply to Core-Dev earlier.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: clarified
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: now is good
<spotter> hey guys, there's a pretty major bug in a simple package (hebcal) that ubuntu pulls from my debian package, so a new release was made, any chance ubuntu can include it in -updates?
<ebroder> !sru | spotter
<ubottu> spotter: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ebroder> spotter: that's the process for getting stuff into -updates
<spotter> the Q is, what does high impact mean?
<ScottK> spotter: We'd need a bug with a test case for verification and a minimal diff.  With that, yes.
<spotter> high impact to ubuntu, but high impact to package?
<ScottK> spotter: To the package.
<spotter> i.e. this is a lo impact package w/ a high impact bug to it (calculates wrong day for a fast day)
<ScottK> spotter: That sounds like high impact to me.
<ScottK> Because the only people it would affect would really care.
<ScottK> I have to go, but if no one else helps you through the process, I should be available ~this time tomorrow to help.
<ScottK> spotter: ^^^
<spotter> ok, will work on it later, right now have to get back to work
<xteejx> Afternoon all! :)
<xteejx> How do I go about getting a new package into Ubuntu?
<kklimonda> xteejx: you prepare it, upload to revu and look for sponsors
<kklimonda> !revu | xteejx
<ubottu> xteejx: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<xteejx> kklimonda: Does it matter if it doesn't go into Debian?
<xteejx> Or will they take it automatically?
<kklimonda> xteejx: no, but it should be your final goal.
<kklimonda> nope, getting it into debian is a separate process
<geser> xteejx: Debian is preferred as REVU is lacking reviewers and you can wait very long for a review, you might be faster getting it into Debian and sync it Ubuntu
<xteejx> Hmm, that makes sense
<xteejx> I'm pretty OK with doing my first package, it's just the rules file I'm already confused with
<xteejx> The rest is pretty explanatory on the Debian New Maintainers Guide
<RainCT> xteejx: in many cases you should be able to use debhelper 7 and not have to worry about debian/rules at all
<xteejx> RainCT: Well the package uses the usual configure, make, make install
<xteejx> I guess it would be the template one right?
<xteejx> dh: $@ or whatever it is
<RainCT> xteejx: right,  %: dh $@  iirc
<xteejx> What about the difference between Ubu/Deb, can I build it locally (Ubuntu)?
<geser> xteejx: if you have specific problems, you can ask in #ubuntu-packaging (or here)
<xteejx> i.e make the package up and pbuilder it?
<xteejx> Oh ok :) Brilliant!!
<geser> xteejx: using a Debian sid pbuilder
<xteejx> No prob, I know how to work pbuilder what with FTBFS fixes and the like :)
<micahg> \sh: did you get my email about the ZF PPA versioning?
<\sh> micahg: yepp
<\sh> micahg: go ahead
<micahg> geser: is there any process for me being added to MOTU or do I just need to ask?
<geser> micahg: usually the person who chairs does it
<micahg> geser: ah, ok, i'll wait then
<geser> micahg: done
<micahg> geser: thanks :)
<bilalakhtar> micahg: Welcome to MOTU!
<dholbach> micahg, congratulations
<micahg> dholbach: thanks
<achiang> hello, i submitted a fix for bug #672887 yesterday, simultaneously with an entry in debian BTS: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=602880
<ubottu> Debian bug 602880 in src:zvbi "FTBFS: undefined reference to 'S_ISCHR'" [Normal,Fixed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 672887 in zvbi (Ubuntu) "FTBFS: undefined reference to 'S_ISCHR'" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672887
<achiang> the ubuntu sponsor uploaded my package already; shortly thereafter, the DD uploaded a fix too
<achiang> so, i learned a lesson: maybe if i submit a debian patch, i should wait a day or two before subscribing ubuntu-sponsors
<achiang> ... to give the DD time to react
<achiang> in the meantime, what's the best way to proceed with this package? it's fixed, yes, but should i request a merge too?
<geser> achiang: is your fix the only change in the Debian package and the same as in the Ubuntu package?
<achiang> geser: no, i notice the DD added an additional fix to his package [please read the debian bug for details]
<geser> IMHO it's not worth to sync right now. the other update doesn't benefit Ubuntu. But you could keep an eye on this package and sync (as the Ubuntu delta is completely included in the Debian package) it on the next occasion
<achiang> geser: does that sync happen automatically at some point? or is it a manual process? also, shouldn't it properly be called a merge, since the Ubuntu version and Debian version are now forked?
<cjwatson> if the result is making the Ubuntu package a verbatim copy of the Debian package, we call that a sync
<cjwatson> a merge is when there are still outstanding changes
<cjwatson> (on the Ubuntu sided)
<cjwatson> *side
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: hello, did you see my requests to MoM?
<achiang> ah, got it, thanks
<cjwatson> since there are currently outstanding Ubuntu changes, it will require a manual request to sync
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> cjwatson:  could you look on bug 667792 what happens with this sync?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 667792 in oinkmaster (Ubuntu) "Sync oinkmaster 2.0-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/667792
 * cjwatson looks slightly despairingly at the stack of another half a dozen things he's currently doing ...
<achiang> cjwatson: so, for any package foo, if the version string is XubuntuY (meaning, outstanding Ubuntu changes), that will always require a manual sync, no matter where we are in the release cyccle?
<cjwatson> achiang: yes
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: looks successful.  tell me what the problem is, don't make me guess?
<cjwatson> (and it's not listed on merges.ubuntu.com anywhere)
<achiang> cjwatson: ok, thank you. now that i understand it will cause extra work, i will be slower to pull the trigger on filing Ubuntu bugs, and work harder to get fixes into Debian first. any good guidelines on how long it is appropriate to wait for a DD to respond before requesting an Ubuntu upload?
<cjwatson> achiang: not really, judgement call
<cjwatson> achiang: build relationships with Debian maintainers and it will be easier to guess
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ah, comment on package op-panel is wrong. you can look that it's driving to oinkmaster request
<cjwatson> hard to put numbers on human factors
<achiang> cjwatson: good advice, thank you.
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: well, just delete the comment then
<cjwatson> or figure out what it should say and fix it
<ari-tczew> done 1 minute ago
<kklimonda> cjwatson: btw, in sync we loose all our entries in the changelog, and houldn't changelog reflect all uploads (in this case to Ubuntu)?
<cjwatson> kklimonda: we do.  it's a price worth paying.
<cjwatson> (we discussed this way back at the start of Ubuntu)
<SpamapS> beside that, they're not "lost".. they're still in whatever release they got uploaded in. :)
<cjwatson> launchpad knows all
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: 2 packages were removed from universe. does MoM will clean them?
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: names?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: sponsoring overview says that you've upload access for all ubuntu ;d
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I should imagine so in general, though
<cjwatson> (please only ask me if there is a definite problem)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: I just only ask whether MoM is going to remove removed packages from the list. do you want remove these packages manually?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: silo , xserver-xorg-video-sunleo ; emacs22
<ari-tczew> (universe)
<micahg> ari-tczew: they're still showing up in the madison db
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't want to touch anything manually
<cjwatson> the silo and xserver-xorg-video-sunleo *source packages* shouldn't be removed - I had this discussion with you just the other day
<cjwatson> there's no point removing source packages to correspond to which architectures we currently build - it's nothing but busy-work
<cjwatson> somebody should either do trivial merges for those or sync them or something
<cjwatson> oh, wait, somebody removed silo and xserver-xorg-video-sunleo against my express instructions?
<cjwatson> bah
<micahg> cjwatson: Riddell had no way to know as it wasn't documented in the bug
<cjwatson> I know Riddell didn't
<cjwatson> ari filed the bug AFTER talking to me
<micahg> fun
<cjwatson> I don't see the point in me asking questions if I'm just going to be ignored without the courtesy of a rebuttal
<cjwatson> er, answering questions
<micahg> cjwatson: do you want me to get those sources back?
<cjwatson> I want ari to stop being a loose cannon
<cjwatson> I don't desperately care about the source packages in question, but I want us not to be wasting work on this stuff
<Rhonda> Actually there are people who think his behavior is appropriate.
<cjwatson> what, asking a question, getting the answer, and then behaving as if he hadn't?
<cjwatson> I have no problem with there being a difference of opinion on whether the source package should be removed
<cjwatson> but that should be handled by actually having the conversation
<cjwatson> one reason why it's actually important not to remove packages for this reason is that it's a problem if we ever decide we want to reintroduce the architecture later
<cjwatson> and the weight of source packages that only build for architectures we don't support is negligible
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: please don't remove packages based solely on the fact that we're not building for its architectures
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: it will be problematic if we ever need to reintroduce the architecture in future, and in general it's just busy-work
<cjwatson> I have a definite memory that I had already asked you not to do this in these cases, not that I can find the logs
<cjwatson> ah yes, here we go, here are the logs from a week ago
<cjwatson> 22:34 <ari-tczew> can we remove packages from archive, if there is only one binary - sparc ?
<cjwatson> 22:35 <persia> ari-tczew, That's not a good reason, but we can remove stuff.  Which package?
<cjwatson> 22:36 <ari-tczew> persia: xserver-xorg-video-sunleo
<cjwatson> 22:36 <cjwatson> I've generally not found it worth the effort to do so
<cjwatson> 22:37 <cjwatson> it's easier to just sync all those source packages and have them do nothing, rather than go to the effort of maintaining entries in the sync-blacklist for everything that generates only binaries for architectures not in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> 22:37 <persia> We could remove that (use "Unbuildable in Ubuntu" as the reason, and blacklist), but yeah, I don't see the point.
<cjwatson> 22:37 <cjwatson> (and keep track of when source packages add new architectures and remove them from the blacklist, and ...)
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: did you not see that discussion?
<micahg> geser: BTW, I took a look at the FTBFS page to add package sets, but my python foo isn't quite there yet
<geser> send me what you have, and I try to merge it
<micahg> geser: I don't have anything yet, I probably won't be able to do much with it before the beginning of the year
<geser> np, I guess till then I'll find time to finish it myself
<micahg> geser: you can feel free to leave it for me unless you want to work on it yourself
<geser> I wanted to code  myself a little again but lacked an idea (know I have one thanks to you :)
<micahg> geser: cool, thanks
<highvoltage> heh, dhcp in network manager seemed to break anyway
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: sorry, today my ISP doesn't work good
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-10
<Muscovy> This may seem like a strange question, but how can I detect which languages the system uses?
<kklimonda> Muscovy: checking locale settings?
<Muscovy> How would I do that?
<Bachstelze> Muscovy: define "the system" ;)
<Bachstelze> each user can use a different locale using the LANG ev variable
<Muscovy> I would say all user languages.
<Muscovy> I'm trying to figure out how to make an installer download langpacks for all languages users use.
<kklimonda> Muscovy: I don't think there is a way to detect a system-wide language (or language set by all users). All you can check is the language for the current user (or rather your application)
 * Bachstelze nods
<Muscovy> Hmm.
<kklimonda> well, you could probably detect system-wide settings somehow but it won't help you in this case.
<kklimonda> Can users choose any language they like, even if language packs for it are missing?
 * kklimonda doesn't think so
<Muscovy> We don't have a UI for that yet, but yes.
<kklimonda> Muscovy: but it won't work without language packs so what's the point?
<Muscovy> It's for the screenshots in the #ubuntu-tour.
<Muscovy> Each pack will be about 15 MB.
<Muscovy> No way we can stick them all together.
<kklimonda> Muscovy: what you could do is create an application that, at the first login, launches and asks user to choose his language and then, using policy-kit and aptdaemon(?) installs all files.
<Muscovy> We were thinking of automating the "install user's language". The tour itself knows how to find which language is currently in use.
<kklimonda> how does it know that?
<Muscovy> I'm not sure. I didn't code very much at all since most of it's GTK, which I don't know.
<Muscovy> It's magic.
<kklimonda> Muscovy: well, if it knows the language for current user it can install language packs.
<Muscovy> kklimoda: the hope was it could get them all at once though.
<Muscovy> The hope was looping it into the install to avoid the need to have admins do other languages or have a pack from every user.
<Muscovy> But like I said, the average computer will use one language.
<ScottK> All languages make updates take a long time when they issue language pack updates.
<micahg> ScottK: BTW, I talked to spotter about the SRU for hebcal and I'll be taking care of it
<ScottK> micahg: Cool.  Thanks.
<jmarsden> I think the packaging of qtwebkit changed, or is being changed?  In particular, the header file QWebSettings used to be part of libqt4-dev, but in Maverick and Natty it is not there, it is in libqtwebit-dev instead.  But libqtwebkit-dev does not exist in Lucid.  I'd like a source package that can build in Lucid as well as Maverick and Natty... is there a clean solution to this?
<micahg> jmarsden: libqtwebkit-dev | libqt4-dev
<ebroder> micahg: that doesn't work
<micahg> ebroder: why not?
<ebroder> buildds will only ever use the first package in an |'d dependency
<ebroder> it's to avoid inconsistencies in how a build runs
<micahg> ebroder: I thought it was only broke if the dependency was versioned
<jmarsden> I can try it and find out :)
<ebroder> always a good plan! i could be wrong. i'm only positive about how sbuild handles this - other builders might act differently
<micahg> ebroder: bug 594916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594916 in Launchpad Auto Build System "buildd doesn't correctly check versioned ORed build-dependencies" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594916
<jmarsden> Hmm, libqt4-dev was already listed as a Build-Dep, so apparently it decided to use that, and so did not pull in libqtwebkit-dev .  So maybe I need to do  Build-Depends: ... libqt4-dev, libqtwebkit-dev | <random-unnecessary-package that exists in both Lucid and Maverick> ??
<micahg> jmarsden: no, replace libqt4-dev with the line I gave you
<jmarsden> micahg: But then on Maverick and Natty libqt4-dev won't be pulled in, will it?
<micahg> jmarsden: it needs both?
<jmarsden> I think so.  It is a QT4 app, I really dobt QWebSettings is the only qt4 header it uses :)
<micahg> jmarsden: don't worry, libqtwebkit-dev will pull it in
<jmarsden> Ah, OK.  That makes sense.  I'll try it.
<micahg> hi fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> Hi micahg. Congrats by the way! :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<geser> good morning
<cjwatson> ebroder: that's true in Debian, but the version of sbuild on the Ubuntu buildds intentionally relaxes that restriction in order that we can sync a package in main that does "Build-Depends: package-in-universe | virtual-provided-by-package-in-main" without modifications
* bilalakhtar changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Open | maverick-proposed is now unfrozen, time to work on SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congratulations to new MOTU: micahg.
<philsf> hi, I'm going to make a package of a (perl) program I wrote, and will use dh-make-perl. I work in a local bzr branch, and sync the whole dir to all machines I use. I'm using dh-make-perl. What's the best practice for the workflow? Do I copy the revision I want to package to a new dir, and make the binary pkg there, or run dh-make-perl in the trunk dir, then revert the changes after packaging?
<cjwatson> I'd make a branch for the packaging
<philsf> is dh-make-perl supposed to be used for all releases, or just the initial packaging?
<philsf> it has a 'refresh' mode, but it didn't append to debian/changelog, instead it created a new one
<cjwatson> philsf: initial
<cjwatson> well, it *claims* to be usable on an ongoing basis actually, but I must say I wouldn't
<philsf> cjwatson, thanks, that clarifies a lot
<bilalakhtar> angelabad: good work on that sync, I am sponsoring your merge now
<bilalakhtar> test-building in my PPA
<angelabad> bilalakhtar, ok! Thanks!
<bilalakhtar> omg! vtk has loads of build-deps
<stefanlsd> I have a dkms build failing with nothing useful in make.log, and when i run it manually from the directory, its fine. Any ideas?
<ebroder> stefanlsd: is the command to build the module multiple things &&'d together, by any chance?
<stefanlsd> ebroder: mm. not that i can see. Its a bunch of commands with ; seperating them
<ebroder> stefanlsd: ok, close enough. are there parentheses around the group of commands?
<ebroder> (i think you're running into bug #593509 i.e. debian bug 577972)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 593509 in dkms (Debian) "openafs-modules-dkms leaves ~empty make.log on failing builds" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/593509
<ubottu> Debian bug 577972 in dkms "dkms: unclear diagnostics on build failure" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/577972
<stefanlsd> ebroder: no parentheses. But yeah, def no error in log either. Strange that a manual build is fine. Seems like its just not detecting the exit status correctly
<ebroder> no, dkms isn't handling multiple commands correctly. try adding parentheses
<ebroder> you're only seeing the log of the last command in the set
<stefanlsd> ebroder: ok. parentheses around all the commands right?
<ebroder> right
<bilalakhtar> angelabad: Sponsored, the test build took over an hour!
<angelabad> bilalakhtar, ops! sorry I had a test build in my ppa
<angelabad> https://edge.launchpad.net/~angelabad/+archive/maverick/+build/2040322
<angelabad> thanks for sponsor me!
<stefanlsd> ebroder: make.log is much beter now - http://paste.ubuntu.com/529405/   but it doesnt fail, although dkms reports Error!  Build of dahdi_dummy.ko failed for: 2.6.35-22-generic (x86_64)
<micahg> ScottK: would I be able to backport thunderbird translations?  (each translation is a new binary which makes SRUing difficult, I plan to SRU them as well when we update Thunderbird, but not the newer languages, just updates)
<ScottK> micahg: You should be able to SRU the new binaries for translation improvements.  We can backport if needed, but I think an SRU would be better if ubuntu-sru would take them.
<micahg> ScottK: oh, ok, that's even better, I just remembered something about new binaries causing issues
<ScottK> micahg: I'm not sure.  I'd ask pitti about it.
<Kage[Work]> Got a quick packaging question..  So I work for my uni, and we use GroupWise here.  My department maintains our own minid server.  So, we have an .rpm of the GroupWise client, and using alien I converted it to a .deb.  I tried to extract everything and make a custom package out of it, but shlibs keep breaking (whereas leaving it alone as the .deb alien produces works fine).
<Kage[Work]> So, my question is this: How can I place the .deb on our minid server without a .changes or .tar.gz ?
<Kage[Work]> Wrong channel, perhaps?
<highvoltage> I uploaded Acire to REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/acire
<highvoltage> Lintian complains about my email address not being the same as in the maintainer field: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/acire-1011101739/lintian
<highvoltage> Is there something I should do about that, or is that normal in this case?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: hmm that warning makes no sense on ubuntu, but you should address the other two issues
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: what should I do about that version number btw?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: do you want it to be a native package? I think it shouldn't be.
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: which basically means you forgot to have a .orig.tar.gz before debuilding
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: it comes from https://launchpad.net/~acire-team/+archive/acire-releases, so it didn't come from an upstream tarball, I haven't quite done it like this before so I'm a bit unsure
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: use source format 3.0 (quilt) and it'll give you an error instead of just making a native package
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: ok
<tumbleweed> ok yes they don't have any release tarballs yet
<tumbleweed> you can make one, or you can have a native package for now
 * highvoltage thinks native package for now is better
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: should I leave it then in the current source format or use 3.0 (native)?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: up to you, depends how much you want to get into maintaining it :)
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: where does that leave me with the version number though?
<tumbleweed> x-y is a numbering scheme used for non-native packages, y is the debian revision
<stefanlsd> any dkms experts. dkms fails to build, but nothing in the log as to why - http://paste.ubuntu.com/529405/
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: so I should go with 0.4.1?
 * highvoltage notes that this is starting to look like an alternate ubuntu-za :)
<stefanlsd> :)
<tumbleweed> yeah sounds sane enough. (we'll get there :P I'm working on drubin)
<tumbleweed> if it were a package I was maintaining, I'd probably go with 0.4.1~bzr83-0ubuntu1 and package it non-natively
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: that actually sounds incredibly sane
<ajmitch> morning
<highvoltage> morning ajmitch
 * ajmitch is here to make it less of an #ubuntu-za :P
<highvoltage> ajmitch: that's ok, with your accent someone could mistake you for being from .za :p
<ajmitch> haha
<xteejx> How do I fix a patch if it says hunk failed?
<xteejx> Can I just edit the patch and change the line numbers?
<xteejx> Don't worry it worked
<DktrKranz> bdrung: thanks
<bdrung> DktrKranz: for what?
<DktrKranz> reply to my comment about cacheviewer
<bdrung> DktrKranz: bug number?
<DktrKranz> no bug #, mail coming from ftpmaster
<bdrung> aha, got it
<ebroder> bdrung: speaking of comments, sorry about that dictionaries-common thing. that was embarrassingly sloppy
<bdrung> DktrKranz: as a maintainer of mozilla-devscripts, i have to promote it's tools. :)
<bdrung> ebroder: np - thanks to sponsor-patch it didn't took much time to detect it
<DktrKranz> heh, I wasn't aware of it. I kept another package waiting to clarify that, I think my question is solved now :)
<bdrung> DktrKranz: if there is a task that is too complicated - there is a tool from mozilla-devscript for it ;)
<ajmitch> DktrKranz: many thanks to the ftp team for working through NEW again :)
<DktrKranz> ajmitch: thanks, very appreciated :) (btw, going down 100 packages \o/)
 * ajmitch will upload a few more then )
 * DktrKranz turns off cronjobs
<ajmitch> heh
 * ajmitch wanders off for lunch
<bdrung> DktrKranz: there is one multimedia package waiting in the NEW queue...
<DktrKranz> bdrung: which one?
<bdrung> DktrKranz: x264 :)
<DktrKranz> being worked on it
<bdrung> DktrKranz: i didn't expect that answer
<sebner> bdrung: DktrKranz is the wizard of Debian NEW :D
<Laney> just run `yes | process-new'
<Laney> er, other way around
<DktrKranz> Laney: simpler, dak process-new --automatic
<DktrKranz> (real command!)
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> there must be overriding to do too though
<DktrKranz> just buy me something like http://tinyurl.com/a9kgqj to be placed upon "A"
<Laney> | yes A
<Laney> $0, sold
 * sebner pets Laney 
 * Laney glomps sebner 
 * sebner thinks fedora14 (in virtualbox) is too br0ken. updating to rawhide. Does that make sense? xD
<bdrung> sebner: yes. i enable experimental if debian unstable is unstable :P
<sebner> \o/
<bdrung> DktrKranz: i looked at cacheviewer - it doesn't use xpi-{un,}pack, but it should (to get the .jar file extracted in the source tarball)
<bdrung> DktrKranz: do you use suspicious-source?
<DktrKranz> bdrung: no, we have another tool, but it's mostly license-based
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-11
<djwattz> '
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/#downloads available in Ubuntu repository ?
<Bachstelze> kaushal: doesn't look like it
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> Bachstelze: Any specific reason why its not available in the repository ?
<micahg> kaushal: no one has had time to package it yet is the most likely reason
<kaushal> micahg: ok
<micahg> debian 584987 was filed to replace mysql-gui-tools with it
<ubottu> Debian bug 584987 in mysql-gui-tools "mysql-gui-tools: EOL upstream, should not be shipped in squeeze, replaced by MySQL Workbench" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/584987
<kaushal> micahg: ok
<kaushal> micahg: is it related to Ubuntu ?
<kaushal> since it mentions about debian
<kaushal> I know Ubuntu is from Debian SID
<micahg> kaushal: we get over 75% of our packages from Debian
<kaushal> oh ok
<kaushal> micahg: Are there any documents which mentions about this ?
<micahg> kaushal: we're spread pretty thin, so we usually wait for new packages to get in through Debian unless a specific Ubuntu Developer has an interest in the packagte
<micahg> kaushal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<micahg> hi bilalakhtar, thanks for the accolades
<bilalakhtar> micahg: no problem, I already had to update the topic, and add the fact that maverick-proposed is open. Just before /topic-ing, I noticed that the end of the topic says: Congrats to new MOTU: debfx . Just changed it to your nick
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Thanks for that gimp upload!
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Dunno why it was being ignored till now, since it was a work item for me, assigned at UDS
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks again for the explanation
<kaushal> much appreciated
<micahg> kaushal: no problem
<kaushal> micahg: I did apt-cache search mysql |grep -- ^mysql-
<kaushal> what does -- signifies mean after grep command ?
 * micahg isn't suer
<micahg> *sure
<ebroder> It means that all arguments after it are treated as filenames to search
<kaushal> ebroder: ok
<kaushal> thanks
<kaushal> so if i just do grep ^mysql- ?
<ebroder> That would print out all lines that start with mysql, yes
<kaushal> so there is no difference
<kaushal> ?
<kaushal> not sure i understand that
<kaushal> ebroder: you around ?
<Bachstelze> kaushal: what are you trying to do?
<kaushal> Bachstelze: np
<kaushal> i got it now
<kaushal> just trying to understand the difference between grep -- ^mysql- and grep ^mysql-
<kaushal> curious to knpw
<kaushal> know*
<ebroder> kaushal: Sorry, stepped away for a bit
<ebroder> I'm not sure what I said before was right. Normally, if you have a command that takes both options (i.e. -r or -l) and arguments, you can use -- to separate the options and the arguments
<ebroder> "ls -l" means do a long listing. "ls -- -l" means list the file or directory -l
<ebroder> I don't know exactly how -- works with grep, though
<StevenK> -- is shorthand for 'anything after it isn't an option'
<dholbach> good morning!
<stefanlsd> morning!
<stefanlsd> ebroder: fixed that dkms issue i was having. dkms error reporting isnt great
<stefanlsd> What happens to the changelog when doing a UDD merge?  seems like its ignored?
<geser> what you mean with "ignored"?
<ari-tczew> I heard that everybody in ~ubuntu-dev can ACK sync of a new package. is it true?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: the archive admins process new package syncs periodically, but if it's urgent yes, any MOTU can ack a sync destined for universe/multiverse
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: but not every ~ubuntu-dev member is MOTU.
<AnAnt> Hello
<ari-tczew> like kklimonda
<ari-tczew> hello AnAnt
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you can only ack for things you can upload to
<tumbleweed> an ack is a sign that you've done all the checks you would do if you were sponsoring the upload, you just haven't uploaded
<ari-tczew> very odd
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: look on bug 673230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 673230 in ubuntu-sponsoring "Privilegles status doesn't show correctly" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673230
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no idea, AFAIK new packages come into universe, so MOTUs can ack new packages, not sure about how this relates to ~ubuntu-dev
<geser> ubuntu-dev = core-dev + motu + packageset uploaders + ppu
<ari-tczew> geser: ok, what's the conclusion?
<geser> not sure yet, have to think about it
<ari-tczew> ok
<geser> have you a link to documentation which tells who can ACK a sync?
<Laney> so MOTU can upload NEW packages
<Laney> therefore can ack their sync
<geser> ari-tczew: it probably should work like this: motu+core-dev can ACK new package syncs, package set uploaders can ACK new package syncs that belong to their package set (not yet but will once they are in the archive and added to the package set), PPU can't ACK new package syncs as we don't give PPU for packages not yet in the archive
<geser> I hope I didn't miss a valid case
<Laney> for other packages  I have bene informed that once there is a SPPR (or whatever) for it anywhere in LP then they can be added to a set
<Laney> so you can upload to $PPA and have it added to your set and then sync
<Laney> or probably just do this informally through AAs, I doubt there would be a problem
<dholbach> ari-tczew, the code in the sponsoring overview uses code that is very very similar to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/annotate/head:/sync-helper.py#L67
<dholbach> so what the archive admins use
<Laney> speaking of sets, ...
<Laney> cjwatson: could you add dbus-sharp dbus-sharp-glib to cli-mono please?
<geser> Laney: is the cli-mono package set TB or DMB managed? if it's the later any DMB member can do it
<Laney> oh, don't know
<Laney> I've only ever pinged cjw before, let's see
<Laney> dmb owns the team... how do you find out for the set? want to just try?
<geser> Laney: that always works as Colin is both TB and DMB
<geser> Laney: I could try but as I'm currently at work, I don't have access to my computer where I've set up everything
<Laney> ok
<geser> Laney: grab your package set through the LP API and look at the owner attribute
<Laney> >>> set.owner.display_name
<Laney> 'Ubuntu Technical Board'
<Laney> geser: ^^^
<geser> then you need someone from TB to get those package added
<Laney> ok, already done ;)
<Laney> I wonder if it should not be DMB thoughâ¦ was the first packageset of this kind so kind of broke new ground
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation/Permissions#Technical Board considerations
<geser> I know that the "mozilla" and "zope" package set are DMB owned, all other package set TB owned
<dholbach> oh... I thought all were TB-owned
<dholbach> hmhm
<geser> I don't remember how it came that DMB created the "mozilla" package set; have to check the meetings logs for it
<cjwatson> Laney: done
<Laney> thanks a lot
<cjwatson> I'd be OK with the cli-mono set becoming DMB-owned, probably ought to be signed off by other TB folks though
<ScottK> barry: I'd appreciate it if you would have a look at the proposed patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/674009 and give an opinion on it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 674009 in pyme (Ubuntu) "in pyme.core.Data fail new_from_fd function" [Undecided,New]
<AnAnt> Hello, is this build failure Natty-specific: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58996466/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.python-whoosh_1.2.6-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? I don't get this build error under Maverick
<AnAnt> in other words, is it actually a problem in python-whoosh or python2.7 in Ubuntu ?
<Rhonda> Why did helloubuntu.com end on november 6th?
<geser> AnAnt: could be the same issue as bug 671441
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671441 in joblib (Ubuntu) "joblib FTBFS in Natty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671441
<AnAnt> geser: how's that
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> geser: I get this FTBFS on maverick too btw with python-whoosh, but I added patch to workaround this  issue
<AnAnt> geser: actually, it is that patch that causes python-whoosh to FTBFS on natty
<geser> AnAnt: the bug is about /dev/shm not being mount in the buildds which make the test fail as it tries to create a semaphore (which IIRC is stored in /dev/shm)
<geser> and when you compare in which module the both tests fail, you notice the same python module (multiprocessing)
<AnAnt> geser: here's the patch that is causing the FTBFS: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/python-whoosh/trunk/debian/patches/shm_check.diff
<AnAnt> but that does not happen in maverick
<geser> AnAnt: looks like the exception changed. The patch catches OSError (like the error in the bug I mentioned) while your build log shows an ImportError
<geser> try modifying the patch to "except (OSError, ImportError):"
<AnAnt> geser: yup, the Queue() call causes the ImportError
<AnAnt> geser: modifying the patch will fix it , but my question is: is the problem actually in whoosh or python2.7 ?
<geser> AIUI neither, but a problem on the buildds
<AnAnt> AIUI ?
<geser> As I Understand It
<ari-tczew> stefanlsd: you don't need to mention in d/changelog: - debian/control: Change Maintainer
<AnAnt> geser: ok
<ari-tczew> wow! new wiki style!
<achiang> if i'm developing a small package in my own ppa, what is the proper method to ensure it is installable in both maverick and lucid? what keys off the distro series in debian/changelog? just the PPA buildd?
<achiang> iow, if my distro series is maverick, the buildd will build it in a maverick chroot; but will lucid users subscribed to my ppa still be able to install the package?
<ari-tczew> achiang: normal set release - lucid or maverick. in versioning you can use ~ppa0
<ari-tczew> achiang: or ~lucid1 ~maverick1~
<micahg> achiang: no, each series is a separate repo
<micahg> s/is/has/
<micahg> achiang: so you can either build on lucid and copy forward, or upload to both lucid and maverick with slightly different versions as ari-tczew suggests
<achiang> micahg: hm. so that means on my actual hard drive, i need to have 2 parallel directories with essentially the same source, but two different debian/changelogs ; the only difference being the distro series?
<achiang> oh... hm.  a binary copy to a maverick ppa
<micahg> achiang: can be the same PPA, just different series (BTW, #ubuntu-packaging is more appropriate for this)
<ari-tczew> no need separate PPA for another release
 * achiang hops over to #ubuntu-packaging
<psusi> it seems to me that one should use +ppa0 rather than ~ppa0, because foo2~ppa0 will be treated as > foo1.2
<micahg> psusi: well, depends on what version is there, I prefer verion~series~ppaX
<micahg> *version
<micahg> psusi: that way it won't conflict with official backports
<psusi> micahg: yea, but if there is then an official version.2 released, it won't superceed your version~
<micahg> psusi: well, you wouldn't want it to in most cases
<micahg> as it would be a different branch
<psusi> why not?  it is newer than yours
<micahg> psusi: oh, I see like ubuntu2 vs ubuntu 1.2
<psusi> if you take version1 and patch it, and call it version2~ppa0, then upstream comes out with version1.1, it won't replace yours
<micahg> psusi: so in that case yes, you would want the +ppa, but in a lot of cases, the PPA versions are ahead of what's currently in teh archive
<psusi> exactly
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: around?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: It would be useful if you could add content to your ping, then I could respond with something fruitful, too. :)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I'm pleased to see that your changes in packages.ubuntu.com have been applied.
<Rhonda> You already mentioned that.
<Rhonda> And actually I applied them myself.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: did you got upload access?
<Rhonda> Rather shell access. Wouldn't work with "upload"
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: you know what I mean. we had discussion last time about it.
<Rhonda> Yes, and I told you back then that it's in the works and that I have it on my agenda.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: summarizing - did you got what you want or no?
<stefanlsd> ari-tczew: yeah thanks. was just a previous change, so i left it
<Rhonda> Was my response really that unclear? Yes, I have shell access. Yes, I am able to apply the changes myself.
<cody-somerville> so whats the correct way to run autoreconf in lucid with a package using dh7 since dh-autoreconf doesn't exist in lucid?
<ScottK> congratulations then Rhonda.  That's one roadblock to progress sovled.
<sebner> anyone already using natty? Will it explode if I upgrade? =)
 * Rhonda . o O ( No, I haven't changed the admin contact address yet. Actually thinking of changing it to a list. )
<Rhonda> ScottK: Thanks. :)
<Rhonda> And thanks to cjwatson for directing me properly. :)
<micahg> Rhonda: +1 for a team/list, is it worth a project on launchpad?
<Rhonda> micahg: Not certain. The code is in git.debian.org. :)
<Rhonda> Actually I think of moving the code to git.deb.at where I can use gitolite ACLs.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: my internet fail again. could you pastebin last lines from this channel? irclogs is not updated (I know, it's a few minutes)
<Rhonda> What was the last message you saw?
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: <Rhonda> Yes, and I told you back then that it's in the works and that I have it on my agenda.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I'm really pleased when during discussion I'm pinged. Then I couldn't forget about discussion. :)
<Rhonda> <Rhonda> Was my response really that unclear? Yes, I have shell access. Yes, I am able to apply the changes myself.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: only this one? ok, my phrase then:
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: summarizing - did you got what you want or no?
<Rhonda> That was my response that specific question. :)
<xteejx> Can I request a giveback on bzr in main? It builds fine locally, build-deps seem ok now
<xteejx> and bzrtools
<ajmitch> xteejx: is python-testtools in main now?
<xteejx> ajmitch: Yes, I believe so, pbuilder picked it up
<ajmitch> & you didn't have universe enabled?
<ajmitch> since LP still reports it as being in universe
<xteejx> ajmitch: Not afaik :S
<xteejx> Hmm, perhaps it *is* enabled
 * ajmitch suspects that you may have had it enabled, python-testtools will need to be promoted to main if it's needed to build packages in main
<xteejx> Ignore me :P
<xteejx> Sorry about that
<ajmitch> not a problem :)
<xteejx> :)
 * ajmitch suspects it won't be hard to get into main, given who's upstream for it
<xteejx> one of our guys I assume?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ari-tczew> ld: cannot find -lQtCore
<ari-tczew> which Build-Depends is missing?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: if locally package built fine but build-machine has FTBFS, perhaps pbuilder is not good. try build by sbuild
<xteejx> ari-tczew: python-qt4-dev ?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: apt-file libQtCore
<xteejx> or libqt4-dev
<xteejx> ari-tczew: It's ok, I've sorted out the pbuilder problem :)
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: For questions like this I usually keep a copy of the Contents file locally to zgrep on.
<Rhonda> apt-file can help with that, there are other approaches, too.
<Rhonda> Another approach is: http:/packages.ubuntu.com/ and inser libQtCore.so in the content search form.
<Rhonda> insert*
<Rhonda> That way you can answer this question yourself next time. ;)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: try this command locally. doesn't work :P
<ari-tczew> it gives --help
<Rhonda> Then read it? :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: apt-file search libQtCore
<Rhonda> Like said, I have a copy of the Contents file locally, so I'm not too familiar with the apt-file handling. I just know that it can answer the question that you had for you.
<Rhonda> And it has a manual page, too. IRC shouldn't be your replacement to reading documentation, you know. ;)
<ari-tczew> thanks micahg
<ari-tczew> xteejx: you're right, libqt4-dev
<xteejx> woohoo :D
<ari-tczew> but it's already in Build-Depends :/
<ari-tczew> what's wrong?
<xteejx> could it be that -I/usr/lib needs to be added to the compile line?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: I added LDFLAGS to d/rules
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Just a guess, but you might need to edit or patch the actual source
<Rhonda> I don't think so
<xteejx> I'm just guessing :) Hard to know without seeing the source
<Rhonda> There should be a config.log or something that contains more information on the error.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What package?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: xca
<ari-tczew> xteejx: could you try to fix FTBFS on xca from Debian unstable?
<xteejx> I'm doing something else
<ari-tczew> package is sync ready, but one remaining changes is LDFLAGS to workaround FTBFS.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: How did you add -lQtCore?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: LDFLAGS = -Bsymbolic-functions -lQtCore (debian/rules)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Try -lQtCore4.
<Rhonda> ScottK: There is no libQtCore4.so?
<xteejx> apt-file has nothing for that
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ld: cannot find -lQtCore4
<ScottK> Not sure then
<ari-tczew> marking as FTBFS on MoM
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I bet the current Ubuntu package is also FTBFS.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I can check.
<xteejx> How do I find out what to link for an undefined reference?
<xteejx> I tried apt-file search, but nothing came up
<ari-tczew> maybe it's looking on package which is not exist in archive
<ari-tczew> ScottK: current xca in Ubuntu - /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
<ScottK> So there's a problem either way.
<ScottK> JFTR, adding -lstdc++ and -lQtCore to LIBS fixes the FTBFS.  Didn't have time to sort out the best place to attach it.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-12
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: could you take a look on package syncevolution - whether can you merge, or is it sync?
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, couldn't you make that judgement? syncevolution isn't something i work on, and i don't really have time to look at whether it can be sync'd or not
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: upstream code has been changed a bit and I would get feedback from patch's author.
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I think he was just asking you as the TIL person
<chrisccoulson> i think the patch i wrote just renamed some functions to not clash with libc functions
<chrisccoulson> you could just look at the new source and see if that's still needed, but i don't really have time to do that
<micahg> so, backport requests with 3 rdepends, can we accept that with proper testing of the rdepends?
 * ebroder is not authoritative, but has seen that happen before
<micahg> can I get a sanity check on bug 674365, I want to post this response, but don't want to seem too harsh: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/530522/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 674365 in midori (Ubuntu) "Midori useragent does not specify full operating system" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674365
<bilalakhtar> I will see you people on NEXT saturday as I go for Hajj
<bilalakhtar> 20th november
<bilalakhtar> bye!
<dholbach> good morning!
<quadrispro> hi dholbach !
<dholbach> hey quadrispro
<iulian> Morning dholbach, quadrispro.
<quadrispro> hi iulian !
<dholbach> hey iulian
<ari-tczew> geser: could you comment something in main @sponsors-queue?
<ari-tczew> I'm trying to reproduce a bug in sponsors overview
<geser> ari-tczew: any specific bug? keep in mind that I'm an indirect member of some package set teams through DMB (e.g. ubuntu-desktop) and that the overview page is right that I can upload that package but I don't use this right
<ScottK> micahg: With proper testing of rdepends it's ~OK (depends a bit on what it is).
<ScottK> micahg: RE your bug comment, I'd add a "This kind of change should generally be made upstream" at the start, but otherwise I think it's good.
<AnAnt> Hello
<micahg> ScottK: is the testing of the rdepends something we can ask the requester of the backport to do?  The user has already done the backport of the package in the PPA?  bug 382591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382591 in maverick-backports "Backport Gwyddion 2.21-1 to hardy, karmic, lucid, maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382591
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.  Absolutely.
<micahg> ScottK: ok, thanks
<ScottK> It's a condition of getting the backport approved.  They can do it or not.  Their choice, but if they don't - no backport.
<micahg> ScottK: I see on the backport documentation page that incomplete is for something not in the archive yet, should that be used as well when requesting information from a requestor?
<ScottK> It should be used when requesting information too (just like a normal bug)
<bcurtiswx> is there a way to test a build in pbuilder right after you build it ?
<Daviey> Is someone free to sponsor a trivial Lucid SRU please?
<ebroder> Daviey: For universe? Potentially
<ebroder> What's the bug?
<Daviey> bug #674645
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 674645 in dnsmasq (Ubuntu) "occasional crashes: glibc detected double free or corruption" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674645
<Daviey> ebroder: ^^
<ebroder> Looking
<Daviey> thanks!
<ebroder> Will you be able to handle the SRU write-up and verification and so forth?
<ebroder> Actually, could you do an SRU write-up now before I sponsor?
<kklimonda>  /b 13
<ebroder> Daviey: ^^
<Daviey> ebroder: I'm on it now
<ebroder> Daviey: Great, thanks
<ebroder> (Don't worry about blocking me; just let me know when you're done)
<Daviey> ebroder: SRU paperwork done.
<ebroder> Daviey: Thanks. I'll take a look in a second. Do you know what dannf is looking at with dnsmasq?
<Daviey> ebroder: no idea, sorry
<Daviey> ebroder: This one is "quite importiant" fwiw
<ebroder> Daviey: Oh, ugh. I only looked at the dnsmasq binary package. Looks like the dnsmasq source package (and dnsmasq-base binary package) are in main, not universe, so I can't sponsor you
<ebroder> Sorry for the mixup
<Daviey> ebroder: sorry, i made that mistake aswell
<Daviey> no worries
<ebroder> If you want to move things forward at this point, proposing a merge proposal into lp:ubuntu/lucid/dnsmasq for your bzr branch would be the best thing to do
<ebroder> It would also be nice if you could make a branch for maverick as well
<Daviey> ebroder: i've got someone on it, thanks
<micahg> ebroder: you know you can't merge into the stable branch, right?
<Daviey> ebroder: yeah, lucid is my priority, with maverick a close second
<ebroder> micahg: Yes, but unless there's been an SRU already, there's no -proposed branch to propose merging into
<ebroder> Daviey: It's easier for everyone if you can prepare and merge-propose both branches at once
 * micahg still thinks a merge proposal for a branch that can't be used is too much overhead
<Daviey> ebroder: ack
<ebroder> micahg: I think the workflow is that you branch lp:ubuntu/lucid/dnsmasq, merge-package the branch with the patch, then commit and push it to lp:ubuntu/lucid-proposed/dnsmasq. But I don't pretend to understand UDD. Or even plain old bzr for that matter
<micahg> ebroder: you can't create a lucid-proposed branch AFAIK, hence the overhead
<ebroder> Ah, ok. I do still like merge proposals from a sponsorship perspective, because they make it easier to see exactly what's being proposed right now, as opposed to debdiffs where there might be 3 or 4 different versions and a lot of discussion attached
<ScottK> Funny.  I find merge proposals much more complex to deal with.
<micahg> ScottK: me too
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-13
<jacob__> I am a n00b at Ubuntu. I am having issues with WINE. When I try to install Starcraft 2 through the disc, it has an error message:
<jacob__> no installer data could be found. If this problem persists, please contact Blizzard Technical Support
<jacob__> Anyone have any Ideas?
<ChogyDan> !wine | jacob__    and check the appdb
<ubottu> jacob__    and check the appdb: WINE is a compatibility layer for running Windows programs on GNU/Linux - More information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine - Search the !AppDB for application compatibility ratings - Join #winehq for application help - See !virtualizers for running Windows (or another OS) inside Ubuntu
<jacob__> #winehq
<jacob__> What do virtualizers do?
<ebroder> Is there a good version number for "we have an Ubuntu-specific patch that we need to revert" such that the autosync scripts will pick it up in the future?
<ebroder> I'm looking at python-parted - there was an Ubuntu patch added last cycle to make it work against parted 2.2, but that breaks it against parted 2.3
<ebroder> I could upload a 3.4-2ubuntu2 or a 3.4-2ubuntu2really3.4-2 but neither of those are particularly productive
<jacob__> Remember I'm a total n00b at Linux. I've managed to install all the software I want, except my PC games. Warcraft 3 ROC and FT give me a black screen upon playing and Starcraft 2 refuses to execute.
<jacob__> Any ideas?
<AnAnt> Hello
<bdrung> ebroder: 3.4-2ubuntu2 and write it into d/changelog that the package is back at 3.4-2 and that it can be synced next time
<bdrung> there is probably no way to mark it autosyncable
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/oqgFC.png
<ScottK> ebroder: Do 3.4-2ubuntu2 and put an explicit note in debian/changelog that there is no diff left and it's syncable when Debian updates.
<ScottK> Heh.  Or what bdrung already said...
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-14
<micahg> if I'm preparing the debdiff for an SRU, can I just do this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/531484/
<geser> lp bug number missing
<micahg> geser: ah, good point
<micahg> I haven't actually filed the bug yet...
<micahg> geser: but just giving attribution like that is fine?
<geser> yes
<micahg> ok
<geser> micahg: while you are here: can I get your opinion on http://www.bienia.de/tmp/natty.html ? (FTBFS with packagesets)
<micahg> geser: that looks very cool
<micahg> it even lets you know if a package in your packageset is in another
<micahg> hi fabrice_sp, I was going to sponsor bug 671358, but I seem to have an issue getting the zip file from upstream, I see you sponsored it in the past, are there any tricks?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671358 in mame (Ubuntu) "[upgrade] New upstream release 0.140" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671358
<fabrice_sp> Hi micahg
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<fabrice_sp> IIRC, there is a get-orig-source target in the rules files
 * micahg checks, thanks
<fabrice_sp> I think that cesare should have upload access for mame: he made all the updates, and knows well when and what to update :-)
<fabrice_sp> (re. the u releases)
<fabrice_sp> perhaps the watch file should be updated to avoid this versions?
 * micahg hasn't checked the watch file yet, just checked the websire
<micahg> *website
<micahg> it only looks for s versions, so I think it's good
<micahg> wow, ok, now I see how this works, I guess I should have checked the Debian dir first
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: if the get-orig-source rule is broke, I should have that fixed by him, right?
<fabrice_sp> or you can fix it yourself. As Cesare is very responsive, you can ask him to fix it
<micahg> ok, I asked him, I'll see if I can grab something else to sponsor
<euroneet> hi hi
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I'm worried about being too critical on a sponsoring request, can you review my comment?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, sure! any link?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/531602/ for bug 673066
<ebroder> micahg: It looks fine to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 673066 in librest (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 0.7.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673066
<ebroder> Oh, never mind
<micahg> ebroder: yeah, I took care of that other one :)
<fabrice_sp> micahg, not sure about the bzr merge one. The other ones mekae sense
<ebroder> Yeah, I was just trying to figure out what I think about that
<fabrice_sp> micahg, I usually give feedback to new packaging by files. For example: debian/changelog: 1) please collapse all non uploaded ....
<ebroder> I understand what you're saying, although I might say something like, "can you either propose a bzr merge or attach a debdiff of something, since those are the preferred form for patches [maybe add a link to something relevant here]"
<micahg> fabrice_sp: well, he has it in a junk branch right now based on just the Debian dir, wouldn't it make sense to base it of the current packaging
<ebroder> The junk branch bothered me when I looked at that, too
<fabrice_sp> micahg, you're right
<fabrice_sp> I usually request a debdiff myself
<micahg> I don't mind a bzr merge as long as there's a current branch for it
<micahg> fabrice_sp: updated: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/531604/
<fabrice_sp> micahg, sounds good to mee
<ebroder> Same for me
<micahg> done, should I unsubscribe sponsors while waiting?
<ebroder> I think that's fine, with another comment to re-subscribe sponsors when your concerns have been addressed
<micahg> oops, one of the comments should have been under anotehr section (build-dep should be under changelog), I'll add a comment
<fabrice_sp> I usually unsubscribe sponsors, asking to re-subscribe them when fixed
<micahg> thanks guys
<fabrice_sp> thank you for working on the sponsorship queue :-)
<ebroder> what fabrice said
 * micahg was hoping to sponsor something this week, will keep an eye out tomorrow
 * fabrice_sp still remembers when the universe sponsor list was more than 100 requests long
<micahg> maybe Cesare will get back to me with the mame update
 * micahg is thinking of pushing that into Debian if the pkg-multimedia team will take it
<micahg> But I need to do a little cleanup work for them before I ask for sponsorship of a new package
<fabrice_sp> mame is not really a multimedia app. I'd classify it under games
<micahg> oh really, hmmm
<micahg> oh right, that's the section it's in
 * micahg must have been thinking of something else
<micahg> ah, there's already a hijacked ITP for it, debian 424905
<ubottu> Debian bug 424905 in wnpp "ITP: sdlmame -- A port of the popular MAME" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/424905
 * micahg forwards to Cesare
<micahg> fabrice_sp: ebroder: have you guys seen the FTBFS page this evening?  geser updated it to include packagesets
<micahg> s/evening/morning
<fabrice_sp> yep: I'm wondering why eclipse is under mozilla packageset
<micahg> fabrice_sp: build-depends on xulrunner
<fabrice_sp> oh, ok
<fabrice_sp> then why the PS? is not marked?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: what do you mean?
<fabrice_sp> the PS? column
<fabrice_sp> it's arked for all main packages, but in the mozilla package set, non is marked
<micahg> fabrice_sp: where?  it's marked in teh universe list
<fabrice_sp> not in the mozilla list
<ebroder> Tooltip says "belongs also to a (different) packageset?"
<fabrice_sp> ohh
<micahg> right
<ebroder> tooltip on the checkbox is what PS that is
 * fabrice_sp is not used to tooltips in web app :-) 
<ebroder> Although...picking one at random, I'm kind of fascinated that gimp is in ubuntu-server
<fabrice_sp> yeah: seems strange
<fabrice_sp> so the PS? column in the general view means "is within a package set" and in the other views, it means "within another PS"
<micahg> yes
<fabrice_sp> got it
<micahg> that way MOTUs can focus on the non-packageset parts of universe first
<micahg> and packageset uploaders can easily see what they need to take care of
<fabrice_sp> good idea, yes
<geser> any ideas how to make the meaning of the "PS?" column more clear?
<hyperair> what PS? column?
<hyperair> oh whoops ignore me
<fabrice_sp> geser, I think the meaning is clear in the 'general' list. What bugged me is that the meaning in the packageset list is different, but the label is the same
<fabrice_sp> and the tooltip is also the same
<micahg> I had a double take originally also, but once you think about it it makes sense
<geser> currently both tables use the same template (but it can be changed). Any suggestions for the column label and tooltip for the packageset table to make it more clear from the beginning?
<fabrice_sp> it will be hard to find a different short label. For the tooltip, in the general table, I think "Belongs to a packageset" would do the trick
<fabrice_sp> and for the packageset table, perhaps "Also belongs to another packageset"
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: my compassion. there are a lot of merges for you in main :(
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-07
<broder> hmm...does anybody do processing on lintian.d.o for things like tags over time?
<highvoltage> hey broder
<highvoltage> do you know if there's a script or site that can show me packages that are in universe but not in debian?
<ajmitch> highvoltage: why yes there are scripts :)
<ajmitch> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/mdt/universe.html
<highvoltage> thanks, ajmitch
<highvoltage> Not in Wheezy : 1135 packages
<highvoltage> I honestly didn't expect that number to be so high.
<ajmitch> that includes a lot of i18n packages, packages removed from testing, etc
<ajmitch> usually the comparison is between sid & the current ubuntu release, but the LTS is special
<jbicha> and that's not including main packages
<ajmitch> right, there's probably quite a few more in main
<highvoltage> yeah, at least the packages in main are probably cared for. I'm wondering about packages that should be dropped/orphaned in universe. (stuff like feisty-session-splashes, potentially)
<micahg> highvoltage: we need to do a lot of cleaning before the LTS, so feel free to start now :)
<highvoltage> micahg: yep. I'll do my part. If that list of 1135 packages could be halved for 12.04 then that would already be good I think.
<highvoltage> so that script just compares between wheezy and precise? I guess some of those packages might be in unstable too
<micahg> yep, some are updated in unstable, some removed
<ajmitch> highvoltage: I can get you a list of the difference between unstable & precise
<ajmitch> just not as pretty as mdt
<micahg> well, that's not entirely good either, we don't want everything from unstable
<micahg> ah, you mean in precise but missing in unstable
<ajmitch> yes
<micahg> carry on :)
<highvoltage> ajmitch: yeah, I need to learn how that works. Ideally I'd like a column that says when the package was last updated, and how many bugs it has against it
<ajmitch> micahg: I have that list somewhere as a byproduct of the rcbugs list
<highvoltage> would be nice to have some kind of idea of which packages are bad and kind of abandoned
<ajmitch> highvoltage: that's possible, might be best to do that with UDD
<broder> highvoltage: i think tumbleweed put a report kind of like that together
<broder> something like "packages that have gone the longest without being uploaded"
<broder> let me see if i can find it
<micahg> well, there's a semi-automated script I think which can remove stuff that's been removed from Debian where we have no diff, maybe we can get that run before we start to file removal requests
<highvoltage> broder: that would make sense, tumbleweed is always 2 steps ahead of me :)
<ajmitch> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/oldmerges/
<broder> ajmitch: that's the one
<broder> also, lintian run is on "z" :)
<ajmitch> it doesn't include packages that haven't been touched for years in debian & are unmodified in ubuntu, but that probably wouldn't be hard to get either
<ajmitch> broder: nice
<broder> though i bet it'll take it a while to generate the html reports after it finishes
<broder> ajmitch: i think those packages are definitely a secondary concern for us
<ajmitch> broder: I need to sort out stuff on mekaneck with wgrant, so that I can set up a CNAME record for lintian.uw.o
<ajmitch> broder: agreed, the oldmerges page should keep us busy enough :)
<broder> ajmitch: no worries. i'll keep working on the output some anyway
<ajmitch> broder: you plan to push the lintian reports there regularly?
<broder> yeah, i was planning to put it on a cron job
<ajmitch> fair enough, tell me if you need me to set anything else up
<broder> i think all i need is somewhere to throw it
<ajmitch> sure, you can put it somewhere in your home dir & I'll point apache to it
<broder> ok. sounds good. i guess i'll push it to people.uw.o for the time being until we get the CNAME setup
<ajmitch> it's the same host, so whatever works :)
<ajmitch> "arkose exists in precise (universe) but not in Debian" - not the most detailed output there per package, I guess
<wgrant> ajmitch: What's up?
<ajmitch> wgrant: can you check if I have sudo access on mekaneck?
<wgrant> ajmitch: You seem to...
<StevenK> ajmitch: sudo -l ?
<ajmitch> it's more likely that I can't recall which password I'd used at some time in the distant past on that machine, but I've never had a ~/.sudo_as_admin_successful on there
<StevenK> ajmitch: That is a slightly seperate problem :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: yeah, a pity that sudo doesn't just trust my ssh key :)
<StevenK> Haha
<funkyHat> ajmitch: alias sudo="ssh root@localhost"
<funkyHat> ;)
<ajmitch> funkyHat: /win 28
<ajmitch> oops :)
 * funkyHat looks in window 28. Huh, that's just #ubuntu-devel. ;)
<ajmitch> funkyHat: yeah, that'd work with agent forwarding, and if the public key was allowed for root as well
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-devel should be in your top 10 at least
<funkyHat> It would break if you tried to use -i or anything else though
<funkyHat> ajmitch: I have bindings for windows up to 100
<ajmitch> still no excuse :)
<funkyHat> And -motu is 8, so -devel being 28 is nice because they have almost the same keybinding â¢)
<funkyHat> (I have a whole bunch like that, -meta sits on top of #u for example)
<funkyHat> How sad â¡â¢)
<ajmitch> broder: lintian stuff still rsyncing?
<broder> ajmitch: uh...it seems to have followed a recursive symlink :)
<broder> ajmitch: there
<broder> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~broder/lintian/ (note: for those playing along at home, url not permanent. skinning not permanent. etc.)
<ajmitch> broder: right, I was looking at the tags there & found I couldn't access them earlier :)
<ajmitch> I'll point lintian.uw.o there
<broder> cool :)
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> I wonder if I still have my Ubuntu lintian instance around somewhere.
<wgrant> I ran one for a little while years ago, but then liw started one in the DC.
<broder> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ is still the canonical source for "ubuntu policy", in so much as it exists distinct from "debian policy", right?
<broder> ok. made a half-hearted effort to ubuntu-ify the output :)
<ajmitch> broder: how long did it take to run over the whole archive?
<broder> day and a half, i guess?
<broder> maybe longer
<ajmitch> so I guess you won't be updating it too often
<broder> wasn't really paying attention, and had to restart it a couple of times
<broder> it does incremental updates
<ajmitch> ah good
<ajmitch> I was about to ask that :)
<broder> ajmitch: ok. lab and sync is on a cron job now
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: you are actually looking for http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/neglected-packages.cgi
<highvoltage> sladen vs kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sxZplO4XPpE
<sladen> damn youtube
<genjix> tumbleweed: you mentioned before about debian unstable for a library with a constantly changing API/ABI. is there some kind of thing where i can hand over the packages to a maintainer?
<genjix> i already made the packages but i have no idea what i'm doing because i'm a lacklustre maintainer
<genjix> https://launchpad.net/~genjix/+archive/libbitcoin
<jdstrand> dholbach: hey, do you know who owns the ubuntu fridge calendar?
<dholbach> jdstrand, you should be able to make modifications if I read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar correctly
<jdstrand> dholbach: yes. I was able to add a calendar
<jdstrand> dholbach: err, calendar item
<jdstrand> dholbach: problem is, I want it to forget about one that is not in a calendar I control
<jdstrand> dholbach: ie, kees'
<dholbach> good question
<jdstrand> dholbach: 'Security Team Catch-up' should be forgotten by the Ubuntu Fridge clendar
<dholbach> maybe the guys in #ubuntu-news (or was it #ubuntu-news-team) know?
<jdstrand> I'm fairly certain kees can't access that calendar any more too
 * jdstrand tries
<jdstrand> dholbach: thanks
<Quintasan> dholbach: Your air hockey match should be up on internets soon, depending on when my ISP unbreaks my internet :)
<dholbach> Quintasan, oh man.............. it's not like I was actually good :)
<Quintasan> Well, but the idea of playing with two of those disks was superb
<dholbach> ok, let's wait for the video then ;-)
<tumbleweed> genjix: Actually, I was talking about experimental. Having libraries like that in ustable isn't easy because you'll have lots of transitions to handle.
<genjix> tumbleweed: ok
<genjix> but same thing still
<highvoltage> +    Has there been a recent scrub to highlight the orphaned packages in Universe? It might be useful to make them visible and put them up for adoption? Failing that, possibly look at removing from the archive?
<highvoltage> dholbach: should that perhaps also be a work item? ^^^ (to initiate/drive a scrub?)
<dholbach> maybe
<dholbach> or bring it up on the mailing list?
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> so if I have a package in Oneiric that segaults, and an to fix it I need to fix a library and then rebuild, would I need to do 2 separate SRUs?
<LaserJock> s/and an/and/
<AnAnt> Hello, what was the last sync from Debian testing to precise ?
<AnAnt> s/what/when
<mewerner_arand> Is it not ongoing still?
<geser> AnAnt: try asking an archive admin in #ubuntu-devel
<AnAnt> geser: how can I know archive admins ?
<geser> simply ask and hopefully someone will answer
<micahg> LaserJock: yes, well, 2 uploads, I think 1 bug can track both
<LaserJock> if the library is used to build other packages would I have to rebuild those too or is it enough to leave them alone?
<LaserJock> there are only a handful, but I'd rather not have to SRU a bunch of packages to fix 1
<micahg> LaserJock: are you breaking ABI with the fix?
<jtaylor> depends, if the soversion changes yes, else no
<LaserJock> there were just headers that failed to be installed via the .install
<LaserJock> the broken packages need those headers, the code isn't changing
<jtaylor> how did the rdeps build then in the first place?
<jtaylor> without the headers
<LaserJock> they must not have needed those particular one
<LaserJock> s
<jtaylor> not needed, or disabled some features?
<LaserJock> I don't know yet
<AnAnt> is there a reason that the following packages are not sync'ed from Debian testing: xpra & xcb-util-renderutil
<jtaylor> should be checked, it would be problematic if yes, as the next update of the rdeps will enable new features not previsously in the release
<micahg> AnAnt: there probably hasn't been a sync since before UDS
<AnAnt> ok
<ajmitch> xpra is version 0.0.6+dfsg-1ubuntu1, so it needs merged or manually synced after explaining why the diff can be dropped
<AnAnt> ajmitch: oh
<highvoltage> mjeanson: btw, here's the link to the ding-libs source package I last uploaded: http://mentors.debian.net/package/ding-libs
<jtaylor> does request-sync also only look in testing?
<jtaylor> it always complains that ubuntu version is newer
<jtaylor> although its not since 3 days
<micahg> AnAnt: the other one is a new package apparently and those are syncd less frequently than what's already in then archive
<AnAnt> micahg: ?
<AnAnt> micahg: why's that ?
<micahg> different set of commands I think?
<micahg> AnAnt: if it's needed relatively soon, you can file a sync request (still has to go through NEW though) (idk about syncpackage and new packages)
<AnAnt> micahg: ok, thanks
<geser> NEW syncing also includes checking if the new binary packages don't "overwrite" other binary packages from existing source packages and also processing of the NEW queue (accept/review the source package)
<jtaylor> hm is something wrong with importing new versions from debian?
<jtaylor> deleted my lpcache and its still not letting me sync ._.
<geser> new versions or NEW source packages?
<jtaylor> just version numbers
<geser> check what LP knows about the package in Debian and Ubuntu
<jtaylor> requestsync thinks python-django-piston is newer in ubuntu than debian
<geser> which package btw?
<micahg> jtaylor: requestsync should be looking at testing, so that's correct
<jtaylor> how do I force it to unstable?
<jtaylor> tried setting the base version
<micahg> jtaylor: -d unstable
<AnAnt> ah, xpra is also a new package !
<AnAnt> and parti-all needs to be removed
<micahg> AnAnt: ah, yes, new source, binaries are in already
<jtaylor> yey changelog not found ._.
<tumbleweed> that shouldn't be a blocker
<jtaylor> ok then the manual way ._.
<jtaylor> or can one already sync via a button in launchpad? if yes can someone do that? its an security update
<tumbleweed> we use a script (syncpackage) not a button
<AnAnt> micahg: so, should a removal be requested for parti-all (because of the Ubuntu delta), or that isn't needed anyways ?
<tumbleweed> a security update probably shouldn't have used urgency=low
<rryan`> hi all, i just uploaded a package to REVU (my first) and I was wondering if anybody could spot-check it for me to see if there are any serious issues: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mixxx
<micahg> AnAnt: yeah, if we have a diff, you can file that after the new source is sync'd though
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: I agree, it was a bit weirdly handled, debian stable hasn't got the update yet either
<tumbleweed> rryan`: we're trying to get rid of REVU, and generally trying to get new packages in via Debian
<tumbleweed> rryan`: but in this case, mixx is already in Ubuntu, are you trying to update it?
<AnAnt> micahg: shouldn't the removal be requested first before syncing xpra (since both provide the same binary packages) ?
<LaserJock> what's the best way to build a package if it requires a package not in the archives? PPA, local repo, some trick with pbuilder?
<micahg> AnAnt: no, the new binaries will supersede the old ones
<AnAnt> micahg: thanks
<rryan`> tumbleweed : yup, we just released a new bugfix release
<broder> LaserJock: PPA is probably most straightforward
<broder> shouldn't have to do anything special - just upload the out-of-archive dependencies, then the actual package
<rryan`> tumbleweed : oneiric onwards has 1.9.0+dfsg0-4, 1.9.2 is our latest version
<LaserJock> broder: make sense, thanks
<tumbleweed> rryan`: I suggest you contact the debian maintainers of the package. Packages filter through from Debian to Ubuntu (unless there's a good reason for them not to)
<tumbleweed> (also in this case, the maintainer is active in Ubuntu too)
<tumbleweed> http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mixxx.html
<rryan`> tumbleweed: gotcha, thanks. I did send alessio a note but haven't heard back from him yet
<micahg> indeed, also, that team is pretty open, so if you'd like to help maintain in Ubuntu/Debian, I'd suggest joining the team and doing it in the Debian Multimedia git repo
<tumbleweed> rryan`: he was at UDS last week, probably still getting home / recovering. Give him a few days...
<rryan`> tumbleweed : k, will do
<tumbleweed> (assuming you poked him in the last week)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: synced
<jtaylor> thx
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: need release nominations for the bug?
<jtaylor> is already on the security sponsors todolist
 * tumbleweed should probably learn more about Ubuntu's security workflows at some point...
<jdstrand> jtaylor: I suggest joining #ubuntu-security
<jtaylor> not -hardened?
<jdstrand> jtaylor: we have a role for processing sponsored patches
<jtaylor> thats what I was told last time is the place to go :)
<jdstrand> jtaylor: either. -security forwards to -hardened
<jdstrand> UDS kinda put last week behind, but I think tyhicks may be looking at it
<highvoltage> Laney: I see you got mentioned on bansheegeddon
<ajmitch> highvoltage: of course he would be
<ajmitch> highvoltage: he's part of the supersecretelite debian team that looks after such packages
<micahg> geser: DMB?
<geser> now?
<micahg> geser: yes
<geser> forgot that due to DST change it's now an hour earlier for me
<micahg> mdeslaur: ^^ you win :)
<ajmitch> heh
<mdeslaur> micahg: hehe :)
<geser> micahg: what did he win?
<micahg> geser: the right to say "I told you so" :)
<broder> tumbleweed: have you pushed any of your requestbackport stuff anywhere yet? i want to experiment with writing a backport bugbot
<tumbleweed> broder: right, I think I finished that on the plane, let me test it and push it to a branch for you to play with
<blair> i wrote commit and pushed it into a bzr branch to update python-rbtools 0.2 to 0.3.4.  the package is also in debian, so does the new ubuntu version number have "ubuntu" in it?
<blair> as in 0.3.4-1ubuntu1 or should it be 0.3.4-1?
<ajmitch> it would be 0.3.4-0ubuntu1 in that case
 * ajmitch saw that the maintainer hadn't replied to the 'new upstream version' bug filed in february
<blair> i want to get this into the 12.04 release that i want to move our company to (from fedora13), is doing the work in ubuntu the best way, or having debian get the upgrade and doing a sync to ubuntu?
<ajmitch> it'd be best to get it done in debian first & synced - you'd have until feature freeze to get that done
<ajmitch> providing an updated package for the debian maintainer to look at can be useful
<blair> ok, so take my bzr changes and make the same change to the debian package?
<ajmitch> yes, though you'd be basing it off the upstream tarball
<blair> right
<ajmitch> the debian maintainer may not find a bzr branch useful :)
<blair> no, probably not :)
<ajmitch> was it much work to update it to the new version?
<micahg> mentors.debian.net might be useful
<blair> no, not too much work
<blair> but i had some questions:
<blair> 1) it's one debian policy version behind, does it need to be updated?
<blair> 2) in the bzr checkout, there's a .pc directory at the top level that had some patching info in it, it's not in debian's checkout or anywhere else, so i deleted it in my branch since it seemed like cruft
<ajmitch> if you've checked that the package follows the policy updates in 3.9.2, then you could update it in debian/control
<blair> yeah, i've been doing a few debian packages over the years, but definitely not an expert to know the differences between policy updates
<blair> i did a git diff in the debian policy repository, but didn't see anything relevant
<ScottK> There's a checklist in the debian-policy package.
<ScottK> In general, I wouldn't worry about it.
<ajmitch> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/upgrading-checklist.txt also has it
<blair> BTW, i'm a MacPorts committer and we have a policy where if a ticket isn't responded to in 3 days a non-maintainer can make a change, is there a similar policy in debian or ubuntu
<ScottK> There is actually Ubuntu policy not to update the policy version relative to Debian since it generates meaningless diff.
<ajmitch> policy changes in minor version are generally minimal
<ajmitch> ScottK: I figured that it'd be ok to update the version in this case when offering it to the debian maintainer
<Laney> ScottK: this is about preparing a diff for Debian (iiuc)
<ScottK> blair: Debian has a similar policy for severe (release critical) bugs.  For Ubuntu there are no dedicated maintainers so anyone can fix anything.
<ScottK> ajmitch: True.
<ScottK> Laney: OK.  Nevermind then.
<ajmitch> blair: also, we're not going to hold up 0.3.4 from going into ubuntu if you can't get a response from the debian maintainer in a reasonable amount of time
<tumbleweed> broder: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/requestbackport
<broder> tumbleweed: cool. i'll check it out tonight
<tumbleweed> broder: my demo bug https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/bugs/860919
<ubottu> Error: malone bug 860919 not found
<tumbleweed> note that all the non-production launchpads don't know that precise is the current dev release, so play along
 * broder nods
<tumbleweed> dogfood thinks we are on 'rusty robot' :P
<broder> looks reasonable
<blair> ajmitch, thanks, i'll prepare the patch for upstream and update the ubuntu tickets with the status
<ajmitch> alright, thanks
<broder> tumbleweed: that seems to have all the information we'd expect to show up in the bug report
<broder> as a random thought, it might be cool to have a verification checklist in the "testing" section
<tumbleweed> yes, if you will provide one of those
<broder> i'll see what i can come up with
<broder> ...but not while i'm at work. i'm far enough behind from UDS :)
<tumbleweed> it currently has << Mention any build & install tests you've done >>, < List the reverse dependencies that you've tested >
<broder> oh right, we got stuck because there's no good way to lookup rdeps for the not-current release in the absence of chdist/chroot/etc. setup, right?
<tumbleweed> we decided to solve that with a webservice
<tumbleweed> we just need to write it...
<ajmitch> broder: unless you went with manually grabbing the Packages files & using grep-dctrl
<broder> ajmitch: *good* way :-P
<ajmitch> :)
<Laney> we should make the ubuntu-dev-tools refuse to proceed if you've left templates in
 * ajmitch still has to get that backport tester in a working shape for demo purposes
<Laney> especially submittodebian
<tumbleweed> Laney: good point, but please file a bug because I'm pretty tired (thankfully, slept until 2pm today...)
<Laney> ditto
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: it's not like you would have had a long flight? :)
 * ajmitch was tired after UDS, but that was more because of getting up at 2AM to listen in on sessions
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: no, it was shorter on the way back, only 18 hours total :)
<ajmitch> that's nothing
<tumbleweed> :)
<ajmitch> dunedin->seville was about 36 hours travelling each way, was a fun trip :)
<broder> tumbleweed: hmm...looks like the determine_destinations isn't quite working correctly. determine_destinations('precise', 'hardy') -> ['hardy', 'lucid']
<broder> but as of right now we'd still need to do maverick/natty/oneiric backports for that as well
<tumbleweed> true
<broder> it might be sufficient to reset support_gap every time you hit an LTS
<tumbleweed> that sounds reasonable
<tumbleweed> broder: pushed
<micahg> why not just take every supported release between the 2 in question
<micahg> ah, nevermind :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-08
<EvilResistance> do any of you know how i can download the source for a package that is in precise
<EvilResistance> i'm aware that dget might work, but i'm unsure the link to use
<ajmitch> 'apt-get source packagename' if you have the source entries enabled
<EvilResistance> ajmitch:  its in precise.  i'm on natty
<ajmitch> it might be more useful to use pull-lp-source if you're not on precise
<EvilResistance> the plan is to repackage
<EvilResistance> ajmitch:  would dget <path-to-lp-.dsc-file> work?
<ajmitch> it would, afaik that's pretty much what pull-lp-source does without you having to find the .dsc file
<broder> pull-lp-source is a bit more intelligent because it'll try to use a mirror for everything but the .dsc file to avoid hammering lp quite so much
<EvilResistance> broder:  considering its only 3 files, *shrugs*
<broder> there are also mirrors closer to you than lp
<EvilResistance> i've got the source, but i have a feeling the "natty" build for the source will explodify once it hits the PPA
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> broder:  maybe so, but i'm on an excessively fast hard line
<broder> but it sounds like you should also take a look at backportpackage
<EvilResistance> broder:  there's a backportpackage command?
<EvilResistance> o.O
<broder> EvilResistance: my experience is that lp is the limiting factor for downloads from lp, not your connection
<broder> EvilResistance: it's only intended for simple, no-change backports, but it sounds like that's what you're trying to do
<EvilResistance> broder:  indeed.  how would I go about obtaining this program?
<EvilResistance> remember, i'm on Natty, not on Precise
<broder> EvilResistance: it was added to ubuntu-dev-tools during the natty development cycle
<EvilResistance> huh
<EvilResistance> whats the command syntax?
<broder> try the manpage? i'm happy to explain if it's not clear, but i tried to make it clear and would prefer to know if it's not
<EvilResistance> hm
<EvilResistance> the manpage is clear
<EvilResistance> but you should consider having the actual program's on-fail help message include the synopsis a bit
<broder> it does have a --help
<EvilResistance> indeed
 * EvilResistance begins using
<EvilResistance> i assume, though...
<EvilResistance> it requires a PPA in order to upload the backport to?
<broder> it can also do local builds
<EvilResistance> thereby allowing LP to build the backported package?
<EvilResistance> ah
<EvilResistance> assume for a minute i dont want to build it at this system
<EvilResistance> :P
<broder> then yeah, you'd want to upload to a PPA
<EvilResistance> syntax then for that option = --upload=<launchpad PPA target> ?
<broder> yeah. using the standard syntax, which is "ppa:your-lp-username/your-ppa-name"
<broder> just like you'd pass to dput
<EvilResistance> cept dput has it all in the configs xD
<EvilResistance> ok
<broder> actually, iirc, backportpackage just shells out to dput, so whatever it would take as an upload target, backportpackage can also take
<EvilResistance> woah explosion!
<EvilResistance> ohhhhhh
 * EvilResistance ran into this issue BEFORE
 * EvilResistance slaps his computer
<EvilResistance> broder:  any way for me to pass to the program what PGP key it should use to sign?L
<broder> EvilResistance: bah, yeah, i ran into this the other day. you can put it in ~/.devscripts, which debuild looks at
<EvilResistance> right now its trying user@systemhostmask
<EvilResistance> broder:  syntax?
<broder> echo DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-k1A2B3C4D" >> ~/.devscripts
<EvilResistance> if i have a key that has other uids on it, can i specify one of the non-first uids?
<EvilResistance> or do i just get to use the primary uid of said key?
<EvilResistance> actually nevermind
<EvilResistance> 'tis irrelevant :P
<broder> sorry, my gpg-fu is pretty limited
<EvilResistance> :P
<broder> i know you can pass things like -kevan@ebroder.net though
<broder> so i would assume subkeys are fine
<EvilResistance> how can i pass  that to the system?
 * EvilResistance must know!
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> well... its kinda irrelevant, but meh
<EvilResistance> :P
<broder> huh? i mean you can set the -k argument in ~/.devscripts to be an e-mail address
<EvilResistance> oh really?
<EvilResistance> didnt know that :P
<broder> the way this works is that debuild looks at DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS in ~/.devscripts, and always prepends those arguments to what you pass on the cmd line
<broder> since backportpackage uses debuild, you can take advantage of this
<EvilResistance> indeed
<EvilResistance> what i really like about this
<EvilResistance> is it throws in the ~dist part
<EvilResistance> so i can backport  to numerous versions :)
<EvilResistance> *ASSUMING* it builds correctly
<broder> that's the idea - it's modeled after how ubuntu's backports work (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports, not that those docs are great)
 * EvilResistance threw it up to a  ppa:lpid/backports ppa
<EvilResistance> where lpid is my id ;P
<EvilResistance> i forget...\
<EvilResistance> the dput ACCEPT or REJECT messages....
<EvilResistance> are they emailed to the primary email for the LP account?
<broder> yes, assuming that lp was able to verify your signature and cross-reference that to a user account
<EvilResistance> any idea on the estimated duration of that?
<EvilResistance> i.e.  how long it takes for it to shoot off the email
<EvilResistance> or confirm the receipt of the dput?
<broder> usually <5 minutes
<EvilResistance> cool
<EvilResistance> hmm
<EvilResistance> out of curiosity...
<EvilResistance> if the original source has the architecture listed for multiple architectures...
<EvilResistance> will the builders *build* for all architectures?
<broder> PPAs only build for i386 and amd64
<EvilResistance> ahh
<EvilResistance> i see
<EvilResistance> even so
<broder> there aren't any ARM PPA builders
<EvilResistance> i meant will they concurrently build
<EvilResistance> i.e. both amd64 and i386 are listed
<broder> you get one builder for each arch
<EvilResistance> but only amd64 is building now
<EvilResistance> it has i386 as "NeedsBuilding"
<EvilResistance> ahh.  "Start in 4 minutes"
<broder> an i386 builder can't build amd64 binaries, and vice versa
<EvilResistance> ...
<broder> there are separate pools of builders for each arch, and builds queue up separately
<EvilResistance> lets assume for a minute i've **built** numerous packages for the system
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> typically my packages are architecture-independent
<EvilResistance> (i.e. 'all')
<EvilResistance> THIS is architecture dependent
 * EvilResistance sees why amd64 is building now and i386 is not
<broder> right, arch: all packages are special
<EvilResistance> wth...
<EvilResistance> "Dependency Wait..."
<broder> that means your package build-depends on something that's not available
<broder> probably a versioned dependency that was bumped after natty was released
<EvilResistance> wtf's "swig2.0"
 * EvilResistance checks
<EvilResistance> wth...
<EvilResistance> it only exists in *oneiric*?
<EvilResistance> "Generate scripting interfaces to C/C++ code"
 * EvilResistance has the oh wait
 * EvilResistance notices it was searching  only in oneiric
<EvilResistance> ah
<EvilResistance> i see
<EvilResistance> it does exist in natty
<EvilResistance> in universe
<broder> you're backporting a package from main?
<EvilResistance> wth
<EvilResistance> broder:  is ZNC in main?
<broder> nope
<EvilResistance> then you have your answer
<broder> did you look at the version of swig2.0 it build-deps on?
<EvilResistance> i'd ask how to check that
<EvilResistance> but i didnt download the source ;P
<EvilResistance> the system did and didnt really store it anywhere
<EvilResistance> note i was backporting to Maverick first
<EvilResistance> and Maverick doesnt have swig2.0
 * EvilResistance will try natty next
<EvilResistance> i need it in at least natty ;P
<EvilResistance> as for my Debian servers, i'm assumign they're all screwed :P
<EvilResistance> unless PPAs allow for Debian builds to be done
<EvilResistance> but iirc, there isnt a sid chroot anywhere :P
<broder> no, PPAs are for Ubuntu only
<EvilResistance> as i suspected
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> ... i'm about ready to explode ubuntu
<EvilResistance> configure: error: SWIG version >= 2.0.4 is required.  You have 1.3.40.  You should look at http://www.swig.org
<EvilResistance> and that's natty
<EvilResistance> wait... what the fsck?
<EvilResistance> 2.0.1-2: amd64 i386   <--- that's whats in natty
<EvilResistance> WHY IS IT TRIGGERING AN ERROR?!?!?
<EvilResistance> for swig
<EvilResistance> oh wait
<ajmitch> because it needs 2.0.4, but has a lower version, and is complaining about some other strange version number?
<EvilResistance> it wouldnt work anyways
<EvilResistance> *grumbles about how fscking annoying ubuntu is being*
 * ajmitch fails to see why this is ubuntu's fault to grumble about
<EvilResistance> i assume i'm free to attempt to backport any package that exists?
<EvilResistance> assuming i can get to the dsc
<micahg> EvilResistance: you want swig2.0 in oneiric
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i want swig2.0 >= 2.0.4 backported into natty is what i want
<EvilResistance> i'm not going to be upgrading my VPSes into Oneiric given all the stability issues i'm seeing people whine about
<micahg> yeah, so both oneiric and natty have that version
<micahg> oops
<micahg> I meant oneiric and precise :)
<EvilResistance> my patience with ubuntu has dwindled now.
<EvilResistance> and when i try to backport swig2.0 it fails too
<EvilResistance> dh_autoreconf_clean
<EvilResistance> make: dh_autoreconf_clean: Command not found
<EvilResistance> because of that
<micahg> run 'sudo mk-build-deps -i -r' in the build directory
<EvilResistance> what build directory?
<EvilResistance> i'm using backportpackage
<EvilResistance> its not storing ithe stuff anywhere afaict
<micahg> right, you still need some build deps installed, you can either find out which one (apt-file search dh_autoreconf_clean) or use the other command I gave you to install them all
<micahg> dh-autoreconf will take care of that issue
 * EvilResistance hopes that swig2.0 2.0.4-3ubuntu1 will correctly build in natty
<EvilResistance> micahg:  that was what i needed, thanks
<EvilResistance> micahg:  assumign swig2.0 correctly builds on the natty systems...
<EvilResistance> micahg:  is there a way i can tell the builders to use the PPA that i'm building znc .202 on to use swig2.0 from that same PPA?
<EvilResistance> assuming of course it builds
<micahg> EvilResistance: will happen automatically once its built
<micahg> and published
<EvilResistance> i see
<EvilResistance> so the builders will automagically check the ppa to see if it contains newer versions of build-deps?
<EvilResistance> if not, resort to standard ubuntu archives?
<micahg> right
<micahg> well, sort of
 * EvilResistance needs a definite "This will work" solution >.>
<micahg> well, you've got the right idea, it'll work, that's just not exactly how :), I think the PPA is like another apt source on the buildds
<EvilResistance> i see.
<EvilResistance> oh another question.
<EvilResistance> will backportpackage identify correctly whether or not there is already a backport attempt?
<EvilResistance> i.e. the verison number i have here is ~natty1~ppa1
<EvilResistance> or do i need to add additional options to have it recognize it should be natty2 or something
<micahg> yeah, I think there's an option to specify the suffix
<EvilResistance> now i just need to hope that the thing wont implode on build
<EvilResistance> afaict, its building swig2.0 backported oneiric -> natty without incident
<micahg> you can use the defaults on the first upload
<EvilResistance> i havent gotten a build fail alert
<EvilResistance> whooo it backported :P
<EvilResistance> now its being published :P
<EvilResistance> micahg:  know offhand the command i have to use to provide the correct next-version suffix?
<EvilResistance> the manpages are kinda buried under tabs right now
<micahg> EvilResistance: pass -h for a list (-S is what you want in this case)
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i got a confirmation from wgrant that the launchpad builders will, if the build-dep exists in the PPA the package is being built for, it will detect it
<EvilResistance> we will now know if that is true or not :P
<EvilResistance> ... after ~ppa2 is detected ;P
<EvilResistance> s/it will//
<wgrant> It is true :)
<wgrant> Has been for 4.5 years :)
<wgrant> They'd be pretty useless if it wasn't true.
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  you NEVER KNOW :P
<EvilResistance> i've seen some pretty screwy systems ;P
<EvilResistance> s/systems/errors/
<EvilResistance> with launchpad
<micahg> EvilResistance: oh, I know it's true, I didn't say otherwise, I was strictly speaking about the mechanics :)
<EvilResistance> micahg:  :P
<wgrant> Launchpad is one of those, but it's not *that* screwy.
 * EvilResistance is running at somehting similar to defcon 2, so... PP
<EvilResistance> confirming my thoughts isnt a bad thing
<EvilResistance> brb
 * micahg wonders when he'll get bored enough to dig into soyuz
<bbigras__> If bug #887349 in papyon affect empathy and emesene since both arn't able to connect to MSN, should the bug marked as such?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887349 in papyon (Ubuntu) "Can't login in Windows live acount using empathy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887349
<EvilResistance> ~ppa2 is accepted, and build status is...
<EvilResistance> bbigras__:  i think those might be separate bugs... no?
<EvilResistance> i.e.
<EvilResistance> papyon isnt necessarily related to those two?
<EvilResistance> unless i am wrong
<EvilResistance> WTH "Failed ot build"
<bbigras__> EvilResistance: Empathy uses papyon for MSN, I saw the bug in empathy's debug window. Not sure about emesene.
<micahg> bbigras__: no, the issue can probably be solved in papyon, so not worth marking the other two unless fixes need to be made there or you're getting a lot of dupes
<EvilResistance> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<EvilResistance>  swig2.0 : Conflicts: swig but 1.3.40-3ubuntu1 is to be installed
<EvilResistance> E: Broken packages
<EvilResistance> micahg:  wgrant:  any solutions?
<EvilResistance> it at least confirms there's a conflict
<bbigras__> micahg: Ok I wasn't sure if the two projects needed to be aware of the bug or not. Yes the bug is in papyon. Thanks.
<EvilResistance> micahg:  wgrant:  if either of you need the buildlogs, let me know i can get you the links.
<wgrant> EvilResistance: You apparently build-depend on both swig and swig2.0, which is not allowed.
<EvilResistance> ...
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  that's strange...
<wgrant> It may be strange, but it's also true.
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  considering the package that needs the build-dep is a backport of a precise package, would i also need to backport swig from precise -> natty?
<EvilResistance> er
<EvilResistance> oneiric -> natty
<EvilResistance> or is the znc build-deps strange?
<wgrant> You're probably in the best position to answer that.
<EvilResistance> can someone help me debug this from debuild -S?  http://pastebin.com/YmFTFZNJ
<wgrant> EvilResistance: You should use dch to edit changelogs.
<wgrant> Your date formatting is incorrect.
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  how can i just add to the changelog?
<EvilResistance> dch modifies the last changelog entry
<wgrant> dch -i
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  thanks.  i wasnt aware that existed :P
<EvilResistance> on another note...
<EvilResistance> ITS FINALLY BUILDING!!!
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  i owe you a beer, sir.
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i also owe you a beer.
<EvilResistance> broder:  you too. :P
 * EvilResistance finally has this working after HOURS at it
<EvilResistance> is there a way for me to import/copy the swig2.0 package from oneiric into my PPA?
<StevenK> 1
<micahg> EvilResistance: glad you got it working
<EvilResistance> micahg:  yep, took enough tries
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i ended up having to dget the source
<EvilResistance> and then modify the control file
<micahg> the fun of backports ;)
<EvilResistance> well
<EvilResistance> at least backports from Precise
<EvilResistance> which was just stuff from sid
<micahg> EvilResistance: backportpackage is the closest thing to source copy from archive to PPA ATM AFAIK
<EvilResistance> yeah i basically just did that ;P
<EvilResistance> -d oneiric -s oneiric :P
<micahg> EvilResistance: why would you do that though?
<EvilResistance> although i should have set the prefix to null
<EvilResistance> micahg:  because i'm weird :p
<micahg> if you use backport package in that context, I think it'll just use the archive version for builds
<EvilResistance> it might
 * EvilResistance shrugs
 * EvilResistance was curious if it'd work
<micahg> backportpackage makes the version lower so that upgrades work properly
<EvilResistance> the only thing i've got left to contend with is compiling znc .202 for oneiric
<EvilResistance> since its still theoretically a backport ;P
<EvilResistance> oh god damn it
 * EvilResistance somehow uploaded the oneiric package into natty within the PPA
 * EvilResistance is now annoyed
<achiang> what's the name of the tool that can re-wrap the Depends?
<achiang> ah, wrap-and-sort
<EvilResistance> is it feasible to backport a backported package to an even earlier version?
<EvilResistance> i.e. i backported swig2.0 from oneiric to natty and maverick.
<micahg> run backport package on it?
<EvilResistance> but on the backported version
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> or on the original if it's a no change backport
<EvilResistance> true
<EvilResistance> since the backported package IS swig2.0 which successfully backported (one at a time) to maverick
<EvilResistance> since its the build dep for znc .202
<EvilResistance> if it backports correctly it *might* get the newest ZNC working all the way back to the last LTS :P
<EvilResistance> in which case i will be happy
<EvilResistance> and so will the ZNC people :P
<EvilResistance> since they kept saying that Ubuntu needs to update more often
<EvilResistance> ... uhm...
<EvilResistance> micahg:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/84683243/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.znc_0.202-1%7Emaverick1-ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  <--
<EvilResistance> seems it wont build after all
<EvilResistance> help with debugging?
<EvilResistance> please?
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> (might be that lucid is just plain old,  but meh)
<micahg> sorry, I've got some work I need to finish up tonight, maybe someone else can help
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> well its the same fail on i386 as amd64
<EvilResistance> so meh
<EvilResistance> i've got to be up in 7 hours anyways
 * EvilResistance should be asleep
<hyperair> looks like a bug in dh_python3
<hyperair> ['adsf'] should be a list containing 'adsf'
<EvilResistance> but only on lucid
<hyperair> but it tried to do a hash lookup on something..
<hyperair> oh only on lucid?
<EvilResistance> hyperair:  it built correctly on maverick and later
<hyperair> maybe it's supposed to run on python3..
<hyperair> er
 * hyperair shrugs
<hyperair> there's probably a bug in the buildd in lucid or something
<hyperair> a bug in dh_python3 perhaps
<EvilResistance> hyperair:  https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw/+archive/backports/+packages
<EvilResistance> for reference
<EvilResistance> there's packages for maverick and natty
 * hyperair shrugs. sorry, i can't really spend much time on this
<EvilResistance> ... and a znc package for oneiric
<hyperair> i'm supposed to be studying
<EvilResistance> i'll go stab the #launchpad peoples
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> have fun
<EvilResistance> perhaps they can fix the builders
<EvilResistance> except i'll stab them tomorrow
<micahg> #ubuntu-packaging for PPA build failures not related to launchpad itself
<EvilResistance> because i'm fscking tired
<EvilResistance> micahg:  could it not be a build problem in the builders?
<micahg> not likely
<hyperair> more likely a bug in python3
<hyperair> maybe #debian-python can help
<hyperair> on irc.oftc.net
<EvilResistance> i'll start with #ubuntu-packaging
<EvilResistance> fwiw i dont want to deal with debian people now
<hyperair> heh
 * hyperair is a debian person though. =p
<hyperair> going to be anyways
<EvilResistance> with the exception of motu people here ;P
<hyperair> =p
 * micahg would like to be a Debian person one day
<freakabcd> hi all
<freakabcd> any idea if octave 3.4.3 will be packaged officially?
<freakabcd> the current version 3.2.4 is old
<freakabcd> or perhaps someone can guide me on how i can make deb packages from existing "making a deb package for octave" files (if they exist)
<EvilResistance> freakabcd:  out of curiosity-
<EvilResistance> did you look at what was in debian sid
<EvilResistance> to see if the newest version is in there somewhere?
<freakabcd> no. it is the same 3.2
<freakabcd> i suppose you guys are going to simply use the debian pkg
<freakabcd> i mean use their setup and stuff. (with some tweaks) since it is similar enough
<EvilResistance> well
<EvilResistance> they usually start with whatever's in sid
<freakabcd> where can i get the source(s) for the building?
<EvilResistance> and then downgrade/upgrade as needed
<freakabcd> i suppose we could have a package before debian gets it :)
<EvilResistance> *shrugs*
<EvilResistance> freakabcd:  just getting the source for 3.4.3 miight not be enough
<freakabcd> no
<EvilResistance> because you need to create a source package
<freakabcd> i meant the sources for the extras
<EvilResistance> oh
<EvilResistance> that
<EvilResistance> um...
<EvilResistance> not sure
<EvilResistance> you could try searching for the sources in the apt archives
<EvilResistance> i think lp has a list of all ubuntu packages :/
<freakabcd> i know how to build octave 3.4.3 and infact i have it already built. just thought i could make a pkg if its easy enough to tweak the setup for 3.2 pkg
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you today?
<dholbach> good good - how about yourself?
<ajmitch> I'm alright, just been out at a developers meetup :)
<dholbach> and? was it any good?
<ajmitch> yeah, it's a monthly event, head to the pub afterwards & chat :)
<dholbach> nice :)
<ajmitch> which reminds me, I need to take a screenshot of this unity bug :)
<Laney> morning
<Laney> dholbach: could you set -t please?
<Laney> also, safe journey home?
 * Laney got stopped by security at MCO
<dholbach> -t?
<Laney> in this channel
<Laney> you haz op powers
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> I might be too stupid to do it
<Laney> /mode #ubuntu-motu -t
<dholbach> yeah, safe trip home, but I'm still quite tired
<Laney> should do it
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> slept until 1.30pm yesterday
<Laney> ty
<nigelb> Laney: stoped by security?
<Laney> they thought my laptop's power cable was suspicious
<nigelb> ah.
<nigelb> Laney: When I was young, your family had a hilarious time.  The security person thought a particular dish/crockery looked sucipious and made us open the bag.  They didn't tel us what they wewre looking for and they couldn't find it either. Mom guessed and showed it to the security lady leading to much laughter :)
<nigelb> s/your/*our*
<Laney> oh, I asked for -t for a reason
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Precise: open for business | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<tumbleweed> ah, thanks I'd been meaning to do that too
<scott-work> is MOTU responisble for the ia32-libs package?  if not, can anyone suggest a channel i can purse an answer in?
<tumbleweed> what's the question+
<tumbleweed> ?
<scott-work> tumbleweed: i get keep a notification that it fails to build and this is causing other packages in the ubuntu studio package set to fail to build
<scott-work> i seem to remember that someone mentioned something funny about that package as well
<scott-work> unfortunately i cannot remember the specifics about that converstaion
<scott-work> converstation
<scott-work> errr. conversation
<scott-work> tumbleweed: correction, ia32-libs fails to produce installabile binaries
<tumbleweed> aha, that I can understand. ia32-libs only depends on multi-arched libraries, these days. And not everything that it depends on has been converted to multiarch yet
<tumbleweed> scott-work: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-October/034279.html
<scott-work> oustanding tumbleweed!  thank you for that information
<scott-work> since i am at work i will most likely need to digest all of it later
<tumbleweed> heh, np
<freeflying> dpm: ping
<dpm> hi freeflying
<freeflying> dpm: can you please join #ubuntu-cn-translators
<dpm> freeflying, yup
<freeflying> dpm: thanks
<l3on_> Hi all... someone could help me with:
<l3on_> http://debomatic.debian.net/unstable/pool/dtn_2.8.0+hg3523-1/dtn_2.8.0+hg3523-1.buildlog
<l3on_> rmdir: failed to remove `debian/dtn/usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4/auto/dtnapi': Directory not empty
<l3on_> dh_usrlocal: rmdir debian/dtn/usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4/auto/dtnapi returned exit code 1
<broder> l3on: don't have a lot of time to stick around at the moment, but from a quick glance it looks like the library is getting installed into /usr/local instead of /usr
<l3on> broder, I know.. and dh_usrlocal is going to fix it... but I've some problems with him
<l3on> my rules:
<l3on> http://paste.ubuntu.com/732136/
<broder> l3on: no, dh_usrlocal doesn't fix up things that install in /usr/local
<l3on> ah :/
<broder> you should read its manpage
<l3on> I read it..
<l3on>  It finds subdirectories of usr/local in the package build directory, and removes them, replacing them
<l3on>        with maintainer script snippets
<broder> right. placeholder directories, not files
<l3on> ah, so ... what could be a solution  ?
<broder> and it doesn't move them out of /usr/local
<broder> i don't know. you need to figure out how to make your build system install into /usr instead of /usr/local
<l3on> ok, thank you :)
<EvilResistance> if i want to submit a backport for consideration, so its backported to natty and oneiric, but the package i'm backporting is from debian sid/Precise, do i have to wait until  Precise is released?
<EvilResistance> or can i submit the backport for consideration?
<micahg> EvilResistance: no, you don't have to wait until release, but ideally it should be a stable version
<EvilResistance> micahg:  what if i can provide evidence of stability?
<EvilResistance> you're aware of what i've been backporting
<EvilResistance> its basically an upstream code release
<EvilResistance> ... just backported :P
<EvilResistance> with a single change to the debian/control file to remove a conflict in ubuntu
<micahg> EvilResistance: no, that was just a suggesting, not necessarily a requirement
<EvilResistance> indeed
<EvilResistance> micahg:  who/where should i start the process?
<micahg> EvilResistance: requirements are build, install, run,
<micahg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How_to_request_new_packages
<EvilResistance> wait....
<EvilResistance> i'll have to file two backport requests?
<EvilResistance> one for natty one for oneiric?
<EvilResistance> micahg:  will anything in universe be considered for backporting?
<EvilResistance> or no?
<micahg> sure
<micahg> EvilResistance: well, as long as it doesn't have a lot of reverse dependencies and the ones it has are tested
<EvilResistance> micahg:  if the only thing that needed backported alongside this package was a single build-dep, and the rest of the dependencies for building exist already in Natty, with that single exception, would i need to file a dual backport request?  or can i request both of those packages backported?
<EvilResistance> via separate requests
<micahg> EvilResistance: I think separate requests with a cross-reference in the description would be good IMHO
<EvilResistance> micahg:  could i post them in the same?  for example, this is what i'm writing in thusfar: http://pastebin.com/sH7pTDBx
<EvilResistance> brb, low power
<EvilResistance> micahg:  back, only had to move 20 feet :P
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i'd rather not use more bw than i already have :P
 * EvilResistance is on bw-limited networking at a university
<EvilResistance> so if i can get it all in one request, that'd make my life easier
<micahg> sorry, I'm going to have to let one of the backporters field this, I'm very busy right now
<EvilResistance> ok
 * EvilResistance isnt sure who the backporters are unfortunately :P
<l3on> Hi... does someone know how can I pass "-l" parameter to dh_shlibdeps using ovveride_dh_auto_install
<l3on> I've tried this:
<l3on> http://paste.ubuntu.com/732294/
<l3on> but it does not work
<Zhenech> override_dh_shlibdeps?
<l3on> ah ok :
<l3on> :)
<l3on> can you show me ? :)
<l3on> override_dh_shlibdeps:
<l3on>   dh_shlibdeps "-l/blbalbal/blballba"
<l3on> is it ok ?
<Zhenech> yes
<l3on> ok, trying :)
<EvilResistance> can someone point me to someone on IRC who is a member of the Ubuntu backports team?
<Zhenech> you can override evey dh_command
<jtaylor> manpge: With recent versions of dpkg-shlibdeps, this option is generally not needed.
<jtaylor> do you really need it?
<l3on> jtaylor, the question is for me?
<jtaylor> yes
<l3on> Yep, if I don't use it then build fails
<jtaylor> you are building multiple flavors of the same library?
<l3on> I think it's because $(CURDIR) is not "standard"
<jtaylor> whats the error message you get?
<l3on> this is the problem:
<l3on> <l3on> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: Cannot continue due to the error above.
<l3on> <l3on> Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have any shlibs or symbols file.
<l3on> <l3on> To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
<l3on> <l3on> dh_shlibdeps: dpkg-shlibdeps -Tdebian/python-dtn.substvars debian/python-dtn/usr/lib/pyshared/python2.7/_dtnapi.so returned
<jtaylor> whats the "error above"?
<l3on> ehm... I've no more the log
<l3on> btw, now it works ! â http://debomatic.debian.net/unstable/pool/dtn_2.8.0+hg3523-1/dtn_2.8.0+hg3523-1.contents
<jtaylor> pysupport is deprecated
<jtaylor> public library but not lib packagename?
<l3on> mmm
<l3on> Do you think I need it ?
<l3on> well I don't understand this:
<jtaylor> probably depends on your sponsor :)
<l3on> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/perl-policy/ch-site.html#s-site_dirs
<l3on> it means I have to put my perl module in /usr/local/ ?
<l3on> but debian policy forbids me to provide a packages with file in /usr/local :/
<jtaylor> local installed usually means not installed by a package
<l3on> ah ok
<jtaylor> nothing in usr/local should be overriden by package upgrades
<roaksoax> /win/win 8
<l3on> instead of python-support I should use python-shared ?
<jtaylor> dh_python2
<jtaylor> http://wiki.debian.org/Python/TransitionToDHPython2
<l3on> jtaylor, do you have a sample to show me ?
<jtaylor> there is not really much to show, add --with python2 to the dh $@ line and remove XS- XB-PythonVersion from control and see what happens
<l3on> ok :)
<jtaylor> btw are you building in precise? in your contents there is only a 2.7 library
<jtaylor> if you b-d on python-all-dev it will build for all versions
<l3on> ah ok, I'll try :)
<l3on> python-all-dev (>= 2.6.6-3~) is it fine ?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> note that dh_python2 is not available in lucid, so if you want to support that you may want to stick with pysupport
<l3on> ah damn :/
<l3on> I need this package for debian stable and ubuntu natty (last LTS)
<EvilResistance> um...
<soren> Natty wasn't LTS.
<EvilResistance> you realize the last LTS was lucid right?
<jtaylor> stable has it so far I know
<EvilResistance> l3on:  ^
<ScottK> It does.
<l3on> ehm... lucid :/
<ScottK> Someone's working on a backport.  Ask barry.
<jtaylor> no complaint, but "someone is working on it" since month :)
<l3on> ok, I return on pysupport :)
<broder> actually, someone has been nominally working on it for a year
<broder> but who's counting
<EvilResistance> broder:  are you the one who wrote the manpage for backportpackage?
<broder> EvilResistance: yes
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: longer than a month. at least 6 months
<EvilResistance> oh cool :P
<tumbleweed> oh broder got there :)
<EvilResistance> broder:  you wouldnt happen to be part of the backports team would you?
<broder> i am
<EvilResistance> broder:  could i get you to review a backport request i threw up for natty?
<broder> tumbleweed: it was definitely discussed at uds-n
<EvilResistance> or will you eventually see it?
<broder> EvilResistance: i can look. what's the bug #?
<EvilResistance> sec
<EvilResistance> 887707 under natty backports
<EvilResistance> https://bugs.launchpad.net/natty-backports/+bug/887707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887707 in natty-backports "backports: `znc` 0.202 (debian sid / precise -> natty) and build-dep `swig2.0` (oneiric -> natty)" [Undecided,New]
<broder> EvilResistance: can you please split that out into 2 bugs? some of our tools require that
<EvilResistance> broder:  yeah i can
<EvilResistance> broder:  sec.
<EvilResistance> broder:  actually, can you wait for about 5 minutes?
<EvilResistance> trying to debug a do-dist-upgrade
<broder> EvilResistance: that's fine. there is likely some additional work that will need to be done, so i'll put that on the bug
<EvilResistance> i marked that one as invalid anyways
<EvilResistance> :P
<ajmitch> fwiw, swig2.0 in precise has a swig binary package that doesn't conflict with swig2.0, so there wouldn't need to be source changes to znc
<broder> is it actually necessary to depend on both? or should we be fixing the package in unstable/precise?
<ajmitch> I think it should be only build-depending on one, but it was added back in as an unversioned build-dependency, it's mentioned in znc's changelog
<ajmitch> it appears to be for debian backports, funnily enough :)
<broder> bah. that sounds a lot like a broken build system
<EvilResistance> ajmitch:  the conflict is with `swig`
<EvilResistance> not `swig2.0`
<EvilResistance> ran into this on the builders
<broder> EvilResistance: right. i don't understand why swig still needs to be in the b-d list
<EvilResistance> `swig` and `swig2.0` conflict
<EvilResistance> broder:  it was in the build-deps on sid :/
<broder> right. why?
<ajmitch> the oneiric versions of swig & swig2.0 conflict
<broder> ScottK: it's been a long time since i approved a non-leaf backport. what are the rules on r-build-dep testing again?
<EvilResistance> broder:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/natty-backports/+bug/887757  https://bugs.launchpad.net/natty-backports/+bug/887758
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887757 in natty-backports "`swig2.0` (oneiric -> natty)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887758 in natty-backports "`znc` 0.202 (debian sid / precise -> natty)" [Undecided,New]
<EvilResistance> broder:  split as requested, both refer to each other
<EvilResistance> (i.e. links exist)
<ScottK> broder: Test all the rdepends unless there's a very good reason to believe testing a subset is OK.
<broder> including b-d? ok
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> For something like swig that's kind of important.
<broder> right, that's why i wanted to double-check
<filip_> Hi. I have a problem creating a PPA package that contains files with diacritics and spaces in filename.
<broder> EvilResistance: oh, good - you're only requesting a oneiric->natty backport of swig2.0
<broder> that's actually much easier than i was afraid it would be
<broder> since nothing in the archive actually used swig2.0 in natty
<EvilResistance> broder:  :P
<l3on> jtaylor, thank you so much :)
<EvilResistance> broder:  yeah, its an oneiric->natty nochange backport
<l3on> I learn many things today :(
<l3on> :)
<EvilResistance> broder:  same as i had to do to get the damned buildds to build znc
<broder> EvilResistance: i thought you were asking for precise->natty for swig2.0, which would have been harder because we have to backport to oneiric as well
<l3on> I've to go now... see you and thanks again :)
<EvilResistance> broder:  swig2.0 existed in oneiric
<EvilResistance> and was sufficient to build znc 0.202 in oneiric
<EvilResistance> case in point: my ppa
<broder> EvilResistance: got it. give me a moment to ACK the swig2.0 backport and i'll look at the znc one
<EvilResistance> broder:  before actually *filing* the backport requests... i did my homework :p
<EvilResistance> and tested within my backports pap
<broder> EvilResistance: and we backporters appreciate that!
<broder> :)
<EvilResistance> ppa*
<EvilResistance> broder:  although be aware...
<EvilResistance> i'm considering filing the znc backport for precise -> oneiric as well
<EvilResistance> same debian/control change
<EvilResistance> otherwise it builds as swig2.0 in oneiric is sufficient for building
<filip_> Could anybody point me to any resource on how to put diacritics+spaces in the file name, please? The packaging process always fails, even when I tried to put the filenames in quotes in the debian/install file.
<filip_> (maybe I will ask in #ubuntu-packaging...)
<broder> EvilResistance: we will actually require that. in order for the natty->oneiric upgrade to work correctly for users that install znc from backports, we need the package in oneiric to have a higher version number than the one in natty, so we need a backport there as well
<broder> but we can evaluate that all within the one bug - i'll be there in a sec
<jtaylor> filip_: spaces in filenames does not work with dh_install debian bug 198507
<ubottu> Debian bug 198507 in debhelper "dh_install: fails if filenames have an embedded space" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/198507
<filip_> jtaylor: thanks
<jtaylor> you will hve to install them manually in rules
<filip_> jtaylor: do you think there is any better workaround than renaming them in the debian/postinstall script?
<jtaylor> install them in debian/rules with standard shell tools
<EvilResistance> broder:  indeed, i wasnt sure the exact methodology, but according to my tests within the PPAs, the znc 0.202 (sid/precise -> oneiric) has built
<EvilResistance> broder:  as for testing, i dont have an oneiric server around
<filip_> jtaylor: thank you, I will try that
<EvilResistance> but this should get the people from znc to stop yelling about ubuntu users having older versions
<broder> EvilResistance: i'm also going to adjust the title of the bugs to what our tools expect
<broder> (makes it easier for the archive admins when the handle the backport)
<EvilResistance> broder:  indeed.  there wasnt a specified title format in the "How to request" page
<broder> the docs certainly could use some love
<broder> did you test all of the packages generated by znc, or just the znc package itself?
<EvilResistance> broder:  they all actively installed by just installing `znc`
<EvilResistance> broder:  they built and executed, but extremely thorough testing wasnt completed.
<EvilResistance> from what i can tell
<EvilResistance> the other packages provide additional modules into ZNC
<broder> EvilResistance: we don't need extensive testing - our standard is "builds, installs, runs", and our standard for "run" is pretty low
<EvilResistance> broder:  it does execute and the modules they install load correctly
<EvilResistance> broder:  otherwise ZNC would freak and continually segv
<broder> ok. that sounds good. we will need you to come up with some way to verify oneiric as well before we can approve the backport
<broder> but everything looks good other than that
<EvilResistance> broder:  throw me an oneiric VPS and i'll make it run :P
<EvilResistance> actually
<EvilResistance> *downloads oneiric server*
<EvilResistance> i have VMS!
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> broder:  would verifying using the PPA i have (which includes the oneiric backport for znc 0.202) work?
<EvilResistance> on the oneiric VM
<EvilResistance> (which is a full oneiric server install on VBox)
<broder> yeah, that would be fine
<EvilResistance> now if only this would download a bit faster
<EvilResistance> its at 55% download of the ISO
<EvilResistance> broder:  how long are  ya going to be here
<EvilResistance> i dont wnat to inconvenience you if you have somehwere else to be
<EvilResistance> *98% download completion*
<broder> EvilResistance: i'm in the US, so it's the middle of my day or so. i'll be around, but am probably not going to take another look until end of my work day
<EvilResistance> broder:  OK.  i'm currently loading up the VM now
<EvilResistance> so this shouldnt take too long :P
<EvilResistance> broder:  should i jsut post a bug comment saying "Confirmed to run in Oneiric"?
<EvilResistance> if/when i confirm it
<broder> EvilResistance: yes, that's fine
<EvilResistance> ok
<ResistNow> broder: this is the Oneiric ZNC instance, 0.202
<ResistNow> broder: if you're around this is the confirmation it works
<ResistNow> its within an ubuntu server 11.10 VM inside VirtualBox
<ResistNow> i'm going to write down to the bug now that i confirmed it works.
<broder> ResistNow: you don't need to prove it to me :)
<broder> we're happy to take your word that you've done the testing, as long as we think you understand what testing we're asking for
<EvilResistance> broder:  i like proving it ;P
<EvilResistance> just in case ;P
<EvilResistance> bug updated
<EvilResistance> to include the testing
<broder> EvilResistance: ok. that should be sufficient. i'll look at it again when i get home from work
<EvilResistance> ok
<EvilResistance> also make sure that when its backported they fix the build-deps
<EvilResistance> because of that small conflict
<EvilResistance> (which i outlined in the bug description)
<broder> yeah, understood
<EvilResistance> broder:  i would request this be backported all the way to lucid but the build deps for ZNC are either too old, or buggy... :P
<EvilResistance> (in Lucid)
<blair> Does ubuntu ever sync from debian experimental packages?  i'm looking at hdf5 in particular, which is at 1.8.7 (which we need) while ubuntu has 1.8.4
<micahg> blair: yes, but that's unlikely to happen for an LTS w/out a *really* good reason
<EvilResistance> broder:  just checking up on ya, seeing if you're alive or if its your end-of-day yet.
<EvilResistance> ;P
<broder> not yet. i'm on pacific time and got in late, so probably still have about 3 hours to go
<EvilResistance> ok.  wasnt sure.
<EvilResistance> holy god, i have two battery indicators o.o
<blair> micahg, so would the appropriate thing to do is to request a bump from 1.8.4 to 1.8.7 using the existing packages?  debian has changed the packages extensively?
<EvilResistance> blair:  you mean try and backport 1.8.7 to your system?
<EvilResistance> that's not exactly *easy*
<EvilResistance> because lets say you're on lucid
<EvilResistance> if you were to try and backport something to lucid
<blair> EvilResistance, no, i'm looking forward to the 12.04 release, i want to get us from Fedora 13 to 12.04
<EvilResistance> it has to backport and not conflict with maverick, natty, etc.
<EvilResistance> blair:  oic
 * EvilResistance goes quiet
<blair> one of our open source projects depends upon hdf 1.8.7 while 12.04 currently has 1.8.4
<micahg> blair:  there's a soname bump, so unlikely to happen w/out a good reason or Debian doing it (we already have a lot of transitions to finish)
<micahg> it's ~25 packages
<micahg> umm, actually seems to be quite a bit more
<micahg> blair: I'd suggest talking to the Debian maintainer about getting the transition started there
<micahg> we still have 3 months until feature freeze, so that should be enough time to finish if it's desired in Debian
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-09
<broder> EvilResistance: ok. waiting for a build to finish at work, so i uploaded znc
<EvilResistance> cool thanks.
<broder> it'll still need an archive admin to look at it, which i'd expect them to do within the next couple of days (probably around the same time they process the swig2.0 backport)
<EvilResistance> indeed.  i assume they'll process the swig2.0 backport first as the ZNC backport requires that for a build-dep?
<broder> presumably. if not, there's a button i can click to retry the znc build
<blair> micahg, i haven't looked, but you're saying that 1.8.4 is not ABI compatible with 1.8.7?
<EvilResistance> if all else fails, there's always the backports ppa of mine
<EvilResistance> it contains a sufficient version from oneiric->natty
<EvilResistance> until  at least the backports become official
<micahg> blair: correct, or so it seems from the package name changes
<blair> micahg, i'm not suggesting to take their 1.8.7 which does look like a lot of changes, but just using new upstream tarballs with the existing 1.8.4 debian/ directory
<micahg> blair: yes, but if they did those changes, it's most likely for an ABI break
<blair> that would be bad form for the HDF people then
<blair> micahg, looks like there was an unintentional ABI changes between 1.8.4 and 1.8.7: http://linuxtesting.org/upstream-tracker/versions/hdf5.html , but in 1.8.7 they increases the .so number at least
<micahg> blair: right
<blair> i also emailed upstream, but no response yet http://lists.debian.org/debian-gis/2011/11/threads.html
<blair> s/upstream/debian/
<blair> micahg, so there's reluctance to bump the .so before an LTS release?  is there a way to query apt-cache to see the number of packages that depend on hdf5 to see how much would need to be rebuilt?
<blair> it would be good to get the latest stable release in before locking off on the version for 5 years ;)
<micahg> blair: there's a reluctance to start a transition due to a soname bump w/out support from Debian since we have quite a few outstanding already, I would have phrased your e-mail more along the lines of asking Debian when they plan to start the transition in unstable and (if you care to) how you can help
<micahg> blair: and the freeze for this is feature freeze (Feb 16 IIRC)
<micahg> blair: apt-rdepends -r
<EvilResistance> micahg:  can that be used to find rdepends for packages not within your current distribution (i.e. to find rdeps for packages in Oneiric from a natty system)
<micahg> Debian doesn't freeze until later next year, also, they might not even be planning this transition for wheezy
<micahg> EvilResistance: I think so, I believe it operates on your cache (assuming what you want is in an apt repo)
<micahg> EvilResistance: oh, in that case, no, you'd probably need to use chdist
<broder> micahg, EvilResistance: or the new site that tumbleweed just finished! :)
<broder> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/rdepends/?package=bash
<micahg> sorry, misread the question the  first time
<broder> takes package=, release=, and arch= arguments
<EvilResistance> um...
<broder> arch=source takes a source package name instead of binary, and returns build-depends
<EvilResistance> broder:  if i'm not mistaken, MIME types are fubar'd on that site
<EvilResistance> its serving it up as a .JSON
<EvilResistance> and the system is prompting a download
<EvilResistance> either that or the backend is screwed
<broder> EvilResistance: it's intended to be the backend for other tools, not really to be used directly
<EvilResistance> oic :P
<EvilResistance> broder:  you should write a tool that interfaces with it!
<EvilResistance> :)
<EvilResistance> :P *
<broder> we plan to write several
<blair> micahg, i get the reluctance.  i got the december date from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule, where it says LTSDebianImportFreeze
<EvilResistance> blair:  that's when they no longer will import from debian
<micahg> blair: actually, that was moved to Jan 9, that's the last auto import, fixes after that from Debian will require someone to request a sync
<EvilResistance> afaik
<broder> micahg: actually, i thought it was pushed back further than that...
<broder> to the beginning of the rally or so
<micahg> broder: that's the 9th :)
<broder> oh, stupid calendar just listing the thursdays :)
<EvilResistance> out of curiosity
<EvilResistance> are these release calendars stored in ical format or something that can be imported into an actual calendar program?
<blair> micahg, took your advice, sent another note to the gis team
<micahg> blair: good luck, if Debian can get the transition done before feature freeze, I think we can do the syncs/rebuilds, but obviously can't promise
<blair> micahg, thanks!
<micahg> blair: thanks for driving this, I"m sure others will want it as well
<micahg> blair: BTW, second e-mail looks spot on
<blair> micahg, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<highvoltage> good morning
<sagaci> hi
 * tumbleweed still seems to be sleeping in a US timezone, so good morning, highvoltage
 * Laney used the pub method
<tumbleweed> care to expand?
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: aparently comsuming some alcahol can mess with your internal clock, so drinking a bit after changing timezone can help you adjust (aparently)
<Laney> hah, that was not what i meant
<Laney> be in a pub as a means of forcing oneself to stay awake
<tumbleweed> forcing myself to stay awake has been working fine
<tumbleweed> it's the waking up in the morning that's disastrous
<highvoltage> when I travel from US timezone to european I just take a two hour nap en then I'm in sync again
<tumbleweed> if I do listen to the alarm clock, the entire day is wasted in a daze. If I don't, I get a productive afternoon
 * tumbleweed doesn't have much practice with cross-timezone travel
<Laney> tumbleweed: http://paste.debian.net/144171/ if you want some encoding fun
<Laney> just merged your branch
<tumbleweed> Laney: I just fixed something similar to that
<Laney> neat
<saimanoj> hello
<Laney> tumbleweed: already had that commit :(
<Laney> hi saimanoj
<saimanoj> hi Laney
<saimanoj> tell me something about motu.
<Laney> erm, what would you like to know?
<Laney> we look after the packages in the 'universe' and 'multiverse' parts of the ubuntu archive
<Laney> !motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, it was only an hour ago, or so
<Laney> yeah, i got it
<Laney> if you mean 94afd1acf7823e0e46f90a5abc11584d83d43276
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> what timestamp were you dumping since?
<Laney> 9:something
<tumbleweed> Laney: oh, it was orc_1:0.4.16-1
<Laney> yus
<Laney> the paste says
<tumbleweed> duh
<Laney> personally, i blame slomo
<tumbleweed> debugging while cooking is not recommended
<tumbleweed> http://wiki.python.org/moin/UnicodeEncodeError explains that one nicely
<tumbleweed> deb822 looks like it decodes bytestrings to unicode sometimes (but not always)
<tumbleweed> hackity hackity hack
<Laney> this remains very upsetting
 * tumbleweed avoids the urge to debug that properly
<tumbleweed> pushed
<Laney> nice
<Laney> please pull before next time(!)
<tumbleweed> ah, you've been busy too
<Laney> nah, just synced it up
<achiang> barry: ping
<barry> achiang: pong
<achiang> barry: hey, asking here because unsure where else, feel free to redirect conversation elsewhere if you know. question is -- do you know of a python module that can do AES encryption? i guess it's not part of the stdlib, but maybe something else has been packaged?
<barry> achiang: http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps/m2/
<barry> achiang: `apt-get install m2crypto` should do it
<achiang> barry: awesome, thanks! do you know the license, btw?
<achiang> barry: nm, i'll just grab the source and find out myself
<barry> achiang: yeah, it looks a little complicated ;)
<barry> i.e. not gpl, but gpl compatible
<tumbleweed> +1 on m2crypto, it's nice. But all the usual caveats of rolling your own encryption scheme apply
<achiang> this is to fix a package i'm packaging for debian
<achiang> they have an apache-2.0 file in the rest of their GPL-2 package
<achiang> so we need to find an alternative
<achiang> an external dependency on m2crypto would solve the issue
<ajmitch> it's not GPL 2+ ?
<barry> m2crypto?  i don't think so
<ajmitch> I meant the package itself, since GPL 3 is compatible with apache license 2.0
 * ajmitch came across a package recently when reviewing that had an interesting mix of bundled libraries, with a variety of licenses including apache 1.1, 2.0, GPL2, GPL3 plus many more :)
<achiang> ajmitch: the package is GPL-2+, but upstream does not want to move to GPL-3+
<ajmitch> awkward
<achiang> this package has GPL-2, GPL-2+, Apache-2, Expat, and "Tummy Public License"
<achiang> now we're down to just GPL-2+ and Expat, after getting the crypto thing fixed [the crypto bits were apache-2]
<ajmitch> expat should be fine, iirc
<achiang> yeah, i checked
<achiang> expat is fine
<ajmitch> trying to explain to upstream why they can't use certain libraries together can be a bit of a challenge
<tumbleweed> Laney: breezy successfully imported (only 1 traceback for a missing changelog). Running the rest now.
<Laney> woot
<tumbleweed> hrm, wasn't there also a bug in the dup-finding code?
<broder> tumbleweed: the abstraction boundry that ubuntutools.rdepends is creating seems a bit weird - e.g. i can't get at the fact that bash has a reverse-enhances from autojump from its api
<broder> i feel like i wolud want an api function that basically fetches and parses the json then spits it out
<tumbleweed> broder: sounds reasonable
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-10
<dglass> Question: I got a package (wakeup) accepted into the oneiric repositories through REVU. How can I get the ubuntu package updated to the most recent version I have made on launchpad?
<micahg> dglass: file a bug w/a debdiff update and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors or a branch with a merge proposed into lp:ubuntu/wakeup
<dglass> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wakeup/+bug/876649. Is this correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876649 in wakeup (Ubuntu) "Request for "new upstream version" upgrade." [Undecided,Incomplete]
<micahg> dglass: I commented in that bug already about what you need to do
<dglass> yes, you said to come here. I didn't understand your reply, sorry I'm new to this
<micahg> dglass: right, so, you need to version your upstream release w/out ubuntuX in it, ubuntuX should be for updates in ubuntu that are not in the upstream .tar.gz
<micahg> so you can go 1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.0.3, or 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 depending on how you wish to version
<dglass> micahg: So make a release on launchpad versioned 1.1-0ubuntu1
<dglass> and upload a diff between .deb files to the bug page?
<micahg> dglass: no, 1.1 is fine, then we'll take that and make a 1.1-0ubuntu1 release in Ubuntu
<micahg> the Ubuntu version is X-YubuntuZ where X is the upstream version, Y is the Debian version and Z is the Ubuntu version
<dglass> micahg: ok, thanks. I will do this. Do you mind if I ask you here again in a few minutes to check on it after I've done that?
<dglass> yes, it's a little confusing for me because there is no debian version. I got it accepted through REVU, so it's ubuntu only
<micahg> sure
<micahg> well, we use 0 when we're ahead of Debian or they don't have the package yet
<dglass> ok, thank you.
<dglass> micahg: I believe I have done as you suggested. I released a version 1.1 on lp:wakeup and uploaded a debdiff to the bug page (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wakeup/+bug/876649). Could you check on this please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876649 in wakeup (Ubuntu) "Request for "new upstream version" upgrade." [Undecided,Incomplete]
<micahg> dglass: upstream release looks good, debdiff though should target precise and close the LP bug
<dglass> micahg: again, sorry for not understanding. If I target precise, doesn't that mean I have to change the changelog in the upstream release? Also, does that mean it won't be available in oneiric?
<micahg> dglass: no, upstream release has no debian dir
<micahg> the update will not be, that's correct
<dglass> so.... my updates will go unused until next april??
<micahg> you can request a full backport if you like (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports), or you can cherry pick fixes for an SRU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates)
<dglass> micahg: in software sources, I believe, -backports is not enabled by default, correct? Unfortunately I think there are some bugs fixed in this recent version which make the older version work improperly in a  noticeable way. Do I need to create a separate bug for a backport?
<micahg> dglass: it is in oneiric, but it's opt in, so they'd have to select the version from there
<micahg> dglass: well, if you want the bug fixes to go to the widest number of users, you could SRU them if they have test cases, otherwise, for a backport, file a bug against the oneiric-backports project, requirements for a backport are that the package build/install/run
<micahg> but regardless for either option, the fixes need to be in precise first
<dglass> micahg: ok, so first I need to change the debdiff to precise, then file a separate bug in oneiric-backports. Backports don't get automatically updated into precise?
<micahg> no, first the package hits precise, then we can backport to previous releases
<dglass> micahg: I reuploaded the debdiff. Does this look good?
<micahg> dglass: looks good, thanks, just reset the bug to confirmed now and it'll be in the queue for the sponsors
<dglass> micahg: ok, thanks a lot. Now I need to wait for it to get accepted to precise before opening a bug with oneiric-backports?
<micahg> dglass: right, since if you open it now, it'll just be marked incomplete
<dglass> micahg: ok, great. thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it
<micahg> dglass: you're welcome and thank you for contributing to Ubuntu development
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> morning
<broder> does anybody have a config snippet i could steal to run sbuild under eatmydata?
<tumbleweed> broder: command-prefix=eatmydata
<broder> is that...an schroot option?
<broder> ah, yes, it is
<broder> ...is there a compelling reason i shouldn't set that on all of my chroots?
<tumbleweed> not that I know of
<tumbleweed> (of course you can only do it when eatmydata is installed in the chroot)
 * broder goes and files a mk-sbuild bug to add an --eatmydata option :)
<tumbleweed> well, obviously, only do it for throwaway chroots
<tumbleweed> broder: I'm playing with using a normalised schema for the rdepends database. That will allow more interesting queries (like main-only, which reverse-build-depends could do)
<tumbleweed> also, collapsing all binary archs into one. I don't see any point in keeping them separate
<geser> tumbleweed: so you don't have any information anymore which are still has that reverse depends?
<geser> wouldn't that cause confusion why a reverse depends is listed if one checks on the "wrong" arch?
<tumbleweed> geser: for most purposes, you want to look at all rdepends, right?
<tumbleweed> if they are only on one arch, maybe it should show that
<Laney> nbs
<tumbleweed> Laney: eh?
<RainCT> tumbleweed: "not build from source"
<tumbleweed> RainCT: yeah, I know what it means. I'm asking what he means
<tumbleweed> is seeing nbs packages in rdepends a problem?
<Laney> that is when you might have skew
<Laney> gotta go teach
<tumbleweed> sure, but a union of all archs rdepends
<Laney> you might care which arch
<Laney> really gotta go!
<tumbleweed> ok, I'll move the aggregation to client-side
<geser> tumbleweed: I'm not sure if it's a problem for the use-cases you intend? could it also be used for unmet deps?
<geser> in case of archive skew, it might be helpful to know that a reverse dependency only exists on a specific arch
<geser> (to avoid questions like is the script buggy because apt-cache doesn't show this dependency)
<tumbleweed> geser: well, might as well make it as widely useful as possible
<blair> micahg, debian responded to hdf5: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gis/2011/11/msg00002.html, what's your take on the response?
<tumbleweed> blair: I don't know how hard hdf transitions usually are, but I'd suggest test building all the reverse dependencies against the new version, if it's something you want to persue
<blair> tumbleweed, thanks, the pure 1.8.4 to 1.8.7 is just a recompile, but debian has redone their packages since, so there may be more work there
<tumbleweed> blair: oh, right no ABI change
<tumbleweed> (or is there?)
<tumbleweed> ah, there is
<tumbleweed> blair: my question is, will everything recompile?
<blair> there are unintentional ABI changes, but the code is source compatible
<blair> yes, it should just recompile
<tumbleweed> right, but there are packaging changes
<tumbleweed> so, it's still a question of how much work will this be. We wouldn't want to start it if we couldn't finish it
<blair> right
<blair> that's why i'm thinking at minimum, just take the existing 1.8.4 packages in ubuntu and update them to 1.8.7, ignoring the packaging changes
<geser> blair: why would it be easier to upgrade the packages ourself instead of using the version from experimental?
<blair> geser, i presumed from tumbleweed's question that they packages may not be fully completed yet and ready to be promoted to debian unstable
<blair> geser, if they are in good shape, then yes, sync/merge them over
<blair> does ubuntu ever take experimental packages?
<geser> yes, if there are good reasons for them (just not by default)
<geser> from the message you linked the DD are just waiting on a transition slot from the Debian release team (to avoid mixing several transitions into one big chunk which makes it hard for the packages to move into testing as all need to be ready at the same time)
<blair> i'm not that familiar with debian/ubuntu release process, so does that imply that the packages are basically ready and in good enough shape?
<blair> do you suggest waiting for them to make the transition to unstable before merging into ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> blair: it means that they think they are ready
<tumbleweed> the release team may not agree
<tumbleweed> you can ask the release team what they think
<blair> tumbleweed, where/how do i ask the release team?
<tumbleweed> but presumably, if they think they are ready the packaging changes for all the reverse dependancies should be staged in VCS / experimental
<micahg> blair: we can't upgrade the package as is due to the ABI break, so changes would be needed, also being out of sync with Debian WRT to the package names will make keeping in sync harder in the future and leave us with a diff we'd have to carry until the next LTS (14.04), so not a good idea for the most part
<tumbleweed> Laney, geser: there: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/rdepends/v1/precise/any/bash (see also s/any/source/ s/any/i386/ etc )
<tumbleweed> of course my client needs updating now...
<Laney> good stuff
<Laney> are you using udd?
<tumbleweed> no. That's a highly normalised sqlite db
<tumbleweed> see lp:~stefanor/+junk/reverse-deps/
<Laney> normalisation!?!?!?!?!?!?!
<tumbleweed> turns out you can make useful queries when it's normalised :P
<tumbleweed> it also got a lot smaller, but then people wanted more information, so it got back to about the same size it used to be before normalisation
<Laney> someone should normalise udd and make compatibility views for the old stuff
<tumbleweed> or just add extra normalisation tables
<tumbleweed> this stuff tends to be quite hard to normalise, though. One has to cut corners
<tumbleweed> bug relationships are already reasonably normalised in UDD, except that merged bugs still makes it a nightmare to query
<tumbleweed> blair: sorry enever answered you. The debian release team hangs out in their channel on OFTC. Of course it's not their job to advise us about our transitions, though :P
<blair> tumbleweed, there's multiple debian channels, is there one specific one where the release managers are in?
<tumbleweed> #debian-release
<tumbleweed> you can ask where it is in the queue, and if they've done any research into how hard it'll be
<blair> ok, thanks
<geser> blair: thanks for sticking to get it done (and chasing all needed information)
<aboudreault> hi. with quilt... what's the proper way to edit a patch... it looks like dh_quilt_patch is too simple
<broder> aboudreault: it's usually easiest to use quilt push/pop to get to the patch, then edit the files you want to change, then run quilt refresh
<aboudreault> broder, but quilt is not aware of the debian directory
<aboudreault> it tries to execute in the current dir
<broder> aboudreault: echo QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches >~/.quiltrc
<aboudreault> broder, thanks, will try this way
<EvilResistance> broder:  around?
<broder> yes, what's up?
<EvilResistance> re: backport of ZNC.  i noticed it was put into oneiric?
<EvilResistance> no progress on natty, yet, i assume?
<broder> i've uploaded the natty backport, but an archive admin still needs to accept it from the queue
<broder> and process the swig backport
<EvilResistance> i see.
<EvilResistance> wasnt sure ;P
<EvilResistance> i'll leave ya be then :P
<broder> i try not to harass the archive admins too much, but i can start bugging people if it isn't handled by the end of the week. there are a few other pending backports as well that should be seen to
<micahg> broder: it'll be blocked on Bug #888665 most likely
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<broder> oh, ugh. yeah, you're right
<broder> i...was just looking at that bug but it slipped my mind :)
<EvilResistance> heh
<EvilResistance> perhaps the LP admins should *fix* that before the natty backport :/
<EvilResistance> (in the mean time, the backports i did within my own PPA seem to be working :P)
<broder> yes, ppas work differently from the actual backports pocket in that regard
<EvilResistance> i'm curious... i take it that an already-built backport within a PPA cant be pulled into the standard ubuntu archive?
<EvilResistance> or something similar
<EvilResistance> because if its already been built elsewhere, shouldnt that in theory invalidate the need for the backported build-deP?
<EvilResistance> build-dep *
<broder> we do that for a couple of special cases - kernels and security updates in particular
<broder> if asked, the archive admins could probably do that for backports, but i don't want to do that unless it looks like the launchpad issue just isn't going to get fixed in a reasonable amount of time
<EvilResistance> ok
<EvilResistance> but fwiw, define "reasonable amount of time"
<EvilResistance> (since "reasonable" is relative)
<EvilResistance> ;P
<broder> not entirely sure. i'd at least like a few days to figure out what our plan is
<EvilResistance> broder:  ok i'll leave you be then.  if all else fails though you all are free to pull the built binaries from my backports ppa.
<micahg> EvilResistance: not really, we must build from source :)
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> micahg:  then the bug needs fixing :P
 * EvilResistance attends to his glitchy DNS server
<EvilResistance> micahg:  the alternative is that i just tell all the Natty users who need the updated znc package to use my ppa :P
<micahg> EvilResistance: heh, I appreciate you trying to DTRT, we'll try to get this sorted
<broder> micahg: if it turns out that this will take a while for the lp team to sort out, i would support doing a copy from a properly-configured backporters PPA or something into the archive. we'd have to see if the archive admins would go for it, though
<broder> but i don't think we're at that point of desperation yet
<micahg> broder: I wouldn't
<micahg> but then I'm super paranoid :), also that would only build on i386 and amd64
<broder> hmm, that's true. but that's also something we could deal with
<EvilResistance> As i was going to add to my statement before i got so rudely bumped from campus internet...
<EvilResistance> ... which looks bad on ubuntu for not backporting when it was backported to oneiric (note that unlike you and I, linux newbies or those not sufficiently acquainted with linux-fu and packaging-fu won't understand there's a bug preventing the build)
<broder> EvilResistance: right, and we'd rather do this using backports than have you handing out a PPA. just give us a little while to figure out what our options are - we're just now finding out about this
<EvilResistance> okay, i'm going to slap my campus now... that's the 5th time today i've been bumped from that wireless AP
<EvilResistance> broder:  indeed.  dont take what i said as rude (i was just making a statement is all... as well, my internet is glitchy today so sorry about the interruptions in the string of thoughts :P)
<broder> EvilResistance: yeah, i understand, and i know it's frustrating (i've been on both sides of this process too)
<EvilResistance> :P
<lfaraone>  So package pithos is in sid, see <http://launchpad.net/debian/+source/pithos>. But running Â«syncpackage pithosÂ» on my oneiric machine gives me "ubuntutools.lp.udtexceptions.PackageNotFoundException: The package 'pithos' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in 'sid'". Any idea what gives?
<jtaylor> its probably only looking in testing
<jtaylor> lfaraone: ^
<lfaraone> yeah, but: $ rmadison -u qa pithos
<lfaraone>  pithos | 0.3.11-1 | wheezy | source, all
<lfaraone>  pithos | 0.3.13-1 | sid    | source, all
<bdrung> lfaraone: that's what the latest version says: $ syncpackage pithos
<bdrung> syncpackage: Error: Version in Debian 0.3.11-1 (testing) isn't newer than Ubuntu 0.3.11-1 (precise)
<lfaraone> bdrung: ah, I'll use the version from trunk then with -d sid
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-11
<micahg> ScottK: isn't pulling the dependency if it's "neeeded" what experimental does and what I suggested in the bug?  as opposed to always using the backports version which was what was occurring pre-natty
<Resistance> anyone know if the IRC council meetings are open to the public?  at least for spectating
<ScottK> I think Experimental only uses Experimental if it's told to, but I'm not sure.
 * Resistance cant find anyone who knows
<ScottK> Resistance: They are.  They are, not surprisingly, held on IRC in #ubuntu-meeting.
<Resistance> ScottK:  know when the next meeting date is?
 * micahg requests laney to explain experimental...
<ScottK> No.
<Resistance> know where i can find out?
<AnAnt> Hello, I am preparing a package for a library that got GIR data
<AnAnt> when I use compat level 9 (for multiarch support), the .typelib file gets installed to /usr/lib/<multiarch dir>/gireopository-1.0 instead of /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/
<AnAnt> is this a bug or what ?
<broder> ScottK, micahg: i thought the conclusion we came to was that experimental builds pulled build-deps from experimental if said build-deps carried a versioned build-dep that could only be satisfied by experimental
<broder> AnAnt: did you mark the gir1.2- package as multi-arch?
<micahg> broder: right, that's what I thought, hence what I requested in the bug
<AnAnt> broder: nope
<AnAnt> broder: you know of an example library package so that I can follow ?
<broder> AnAnt: nope, not off the top of my head. i don't think we've multiarched much in the stack above gtk at this point, and gtk certainly isn't a good example
<broder> AnAnt: yeah, gtk doesn't really solve this well. they move the library out of the multiarch path during the dh_install stage
<broder> AnAnt: it looks like `pkg-config --variable=typelibdir gobject-introspection-1.0` will spit out where the typelibs are supposed to go, so the best solution might be to get the typelibdir from there, instead of building ot from libdir
<broder> *building it
<micahg> isn't /usr/lib/<triplet>/girepository-1.0 appropriate for a multiarch package?
<broder> micahg: i don't *think* so. i think the typelib files are supposed to be arch-independent
<micahg> then why are they in /usr/lib?
<broder> hmm. good questoin
<broder> fine, i revise my statement: i bet gobject-introspection hasn't been made multiarch-aware yet
<micahg> broder: take a look at #1: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/gobject-introspection/debian/policy.txt?revision=27188&view=markup&pathrev=27188, /usr/lib is for binary typelibs :)
<broder> micahg: yeah, i think gobject-introspection just isn't multiarch aware. slangasek completely side-stepped the typelibs when he multiarched gdk-pixbuf: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2011/07/msg00016.html
<broder> needing multiarched typelibs would be a bit screwy anyway - it'd have to be something like "my javascript interpreter is 32-bit but my python interpreter is 64-bit and i want to use GI bindings in each"
 * micahg hasn't dove into typelibs yet, so can't really speculate
<AnAnt> aren't typelib arch-indep ?!
<broder> AnAnt: the fact that typelibs are in /usr/lib suggests that they are not arch-inde
<broder> *indep
<micahg> AnAnt: according to the policy quoted above, the xml definitions are and are in /usr/share, the binary format ones are in /usr/lib
<broder> i can't actually find a spec on the typelib format to verify that it's arch-dependent, but both GNOME and Debian have concluded that they belong in /usr/lib, so it seems very likely
<AnAnt> if they are arch-dep, then they wouldn't have worked on 64-bit machines (since arch-all packages are usually built on i386)
<broder> evan@caron:~$ apt-cache show gir1.2-gtk-3.0  | grep Arch
<broder> Architecture: amd64
<micahg> according to policy, the binary typelib needs to be in architecture dependent package
<broder> the packages with the typelibs aren't arch-indep
<AnAnt> hmmm, I thought I saw one that is arch-indep
<AnAnt> I'm wrong
<AnAnt> in that case they should be in /usr/lib/<multiarch>/girepository-1.0
<broder> AnAnt: no, they should not, because there is not currently a specification for multiarched typelib files
<AnAnt> ah, ok
<AnAnt> ok, so I've got 2 options for my package: either manually move the typelib file to /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/, or simply not to multiarch the package
<broder> AnAnt: i'd recommend the former
<AnAnt> ok
<broder> that would be consistent with other multiarched libraries that ship typelibs
<AnAnt> broder: btw, to multiarch a lib, is it required that it's run-time dependencies are multiarched as well ?
<broder> you won't be able to install a foreign-arch library unless all of its dependencies have been multiarched as well, but you're allowed to multiarch it anyway in anticipation of the dependencies getting converted
<cemc> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/888627, I'm not sure what this means in your last comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888627 in Oneiric Backports "please backport pdns-recursor 3.3-2 from Precise" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<micahg> cemc: so, basically I believe that overrides were added in 7.0.50, so any version less than that or its backports (hence using 7.0.50~), require the rules file to be expanded to its previous status, you might want to look at previous versions of the package pre-debhelper 7 to see what that should look like
<micahg> err, status isn't quite correct, former larger self?
<cemc> I've looked at 3.3-1 in Oneiric which has a totally different debian/rules
<micahg> right, you probably want to got back before the package was converted to debhelper 7, maybe lucid?
<micahg> s/got/go
<broder> micahg: compat 7 still had a mechanism for doing overrides, it just wasn't as good
<broder> it was something like %:\n\tdh $@ --before dh_install; dh_install --m-custom-args; dh $@ --something
<broder> i forget the exact syntax
<micahg> broder: ok, could you help cemc dig up the changes needed for pdns-recursor then, that should easier than turning the 10 line file back into 50
<micahg> * be easier
 * broder fetches source
<micahg> thanks, I'm still trying to get an update out before bed
<cemc> if the package builds as it is on Hardy, why is there a need to revert debian/rules?
<broder> cemc: it probably builds, but you are probably silently dropping the changes to the arguments to dh_strip and dh_installinit specified in the rules file
<broder> so i would guess that the dbg package is empty, plus a handful of other small issues
<cemc> I see
<AnAnt> OFFTOPIC: can anyone help me with autoconf/automake or direct me to a channel for so ?
<dholbach> good morning
<cemc> morning
<AnAnt> hello
<dholbach> hi cemc
<dholbach> AnAnt, ØµØ¨Ø§Ø­ Ø§ÙØ®ÙØ± :)
<AnAnt> dholbach: how are you ?
<broder> micahg: ugh, i'm not sure whether i'm more offended by directly applying all of the patches in a .diff.gz or explicitly enabling quilt in the build system. i guess the latter is more in the spirit of the backport
<dholbach> AnAnt, good good, thanks - how about you?
<broder> also, debian/compat is 5! i don't even know what that means with a dh rules file! :)
<AnAnt> dholbach: fine
<dholbach> great :)
<micahg> broder: for personal backports, I usually just leave them applied, not sure how I feel about it for archive backports
<dholbach> hi micahg, hey broder
<micahg> hi dholbach
<broder> cemc: ok, i've attached a patch that i think should work properly for the hardy backport (https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/888627/+attachment/2592842/+files/pdns-recursor_3.3-2~hardy1.debdiff), and thrown a test build in my PPA
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888627 in Oneiric Backports "please backport pdns-recursor 3.3-2 from Precise" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<broder> i probably won't pay any attention to that test build, so that's all up to you :)
<Angelo> Hi! I'm new with packaging and I have a problem learning how to start a package
<geser> do you know already about the packaging guide?
<Angelo> yes, i'm following its instruction geser
<Angelo> about kqrcode example
<broder> cemc: ok, never mind. just got mail about the build failure. working on attempt 2...
<Angelo> but I got this message running dh_make
<Angelo> "bzr: ERROR: Either run the command from an existing branch of upstream, or move kqrcode aside and a new branch will be created there."
<Angelo> what does it mean?
<Angelo> hello?
<geser> I don't know what this error message means (and this channel is sometimes quiet, so be a little patient)
<broder> man, hardy is old
<cemc> broder: :)
<broder> also, i have not yet done a PPA upload without having a mini panic attack in the middle that i accidentally uploaded to the archive proper
<cemc> broder: you can just send me the diff, and I'll upload to my ppa, I don't have access anywhere else :P
<broder> cemc: i uploaded it to mine - https://launchpad.net/~broder/+archive/backports-tests
<broder> it should build in a few minutes, assuming that i turned the wayback machine far enough back :)
<cemc> :D
<cemc> broder: the same has to be done with lucid, mav, natty and oneiric too ?
<broder> cemc: i don't think we need to actually modify the package for any of those. i can go ahead and kick off no-change test builds for those. one moment...
<cemc> broder: I did that already
<cemc> broder: https://launchpad.net/~cemc/+archive/ppa/+packages check them out here
<broder> cemc: and you didn't modify the source at all to do the test build, other than adding a new changelog entry?
<broder> foiled again! hardy is so old!
<cemc> broder: nope, just dch -i and debuild and upload
<broder> cemc: ok, perfect. then test those, and i'll figure out how to get this #$%^ hardy build to work :)
<broder> at this point i feel a compulsive urge to defeat the old toolchain :)
<cemc> broder: I'll get right on it. I'll update the bugreport when I'm done testing the packages. thanks a lot
<cemc> broder: there's still something wrong with the backported package, see my last comment pls https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/888627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888627 in Oneiric Backports "please backport pdns-recursor 3.3-2 from Precise" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<Laney> regarding backports, I think respecting NotAutomatic for BDs is the right thing
<Angelo> Hi! Someone knows how to overcome this error? "make[2]: *** [kqrcode/CMakeFiles/kqrcode.dir/kqrcodewindow.o] Errore 1 make[1]: *** [kqrcode/CMakeFiles/kqrcode.dir/all] Errore 2"
<Angelo> Errore=error (it's in italian)
<geser> this is a followup error from a previous error
<Angelo> both?
<geser> yes, the real error should be short before these lines (usually)
<Angelo> ok! :-) thank you
<Angelo> yes
<Angelo> this is the first error "error: reference to âdâ is ambiguous"
<Angelo> but I'm following the tutorial to learn ... it should be correct
<geser> that's probably the one you need to fix
<Angelo> u know how to do?
<geser> can you please put the whole part of this build log into a paste (e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/) and put the url here?
<Angelo> ok!
<Angelo> :-)
<Angelo> is this good http://paste.ubuntu.com/735216/ ?
<geser> yes, this is good
<Angelo> :-D
<geser> unfortunately I don't know how to fix it, usually it involves looking at the source code and/or contacting upstream and asking for help
<Angelo> I read that installing "kqrcode-dev-0.6.0.tar.gz" package we can solve the problem, and it is true with version 0.6.0. (cuz i've done it), but then I had another problem and so I returned using the tutorial version
<Angelo> ok
<Angelo> thank you
<Angelo> if I could help in something else for me it's ok
<ScottK> broder: Could be.
<geser> Angelo: check if there are some easy bugs you could fix, it's often easier to start with bug fixes as there is already a working package to start from
<Angelo> geser: ok!
<Angelo> :-)
<Laney> bdrung: uploading haskell-csv to bpo now
<bdrung> k
 * Laney re-reads the rules
<tumbleweed> right, I think the reverse-depends tool in my backports branch is now at feature parity (the features that matter) with reverse-build-depends
<tumbleweed> bugs, suggestions?
<tumbleweed> Laney, broder: is the verobose output for that something you'd want in backport request bugs? or just a list of rdepend packages?
<Laney> sorry, I haven't been following your development
<tumbleweed> my backporst branch = lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/requestbackport
<Laney> what is the verbose output?
<tumbleweed> run reverse-depensd from that
<geser> tumbleweed: can it be used to check for reverse-depends before filing a removal bug? list all reverse-(build-)depends for all binary packages of a source package
<tumbleweed> that's a good point, one probably wants to query for source pakcages more than binary packages
 * tumbleweed makes the DB schema even more complex
<Laney> should it display --help if i run it with no arguments?
 * tumbleweed is just using optparse's error-handling there
<Laney> ./reverse-depends -b ghc died
<Laney>   File "./reverse-depends", line 72, in main
<Laney>     fields.append('Reverse-Recommends')
<Laney> AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'append'
<tumbleweed> ta
<tumbleweed> Laney: r1208
<tumbleweed> probably no point in separating build-depends from build-depends indep, but it doesn't hurt either
<tumbleweed> aha, wgrant is also guilty of unusually named changes files https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/denyhosts/2.6-1ubuntu0.1
<broder> Laney: i think we are all agreeing loudly that backports *should* respect notautomatic, but i got the impression from infinity that that would be a lot of dev work, and we have multiple backports currently blocking on this bug, so we need an interim solution
<slangasek> broder: gobject-introspection is not multiarch-friendly in many ways
<pmjdebruijn> hi all
<pmjdebruijn> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/84926948/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-amd64.libgusb_0.1.2-0pmjdebruijn1%7Eoneiric_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<pmjdebruijn> I have failing self-test that might be USB related
<pmjdebruijn> the builds are taking place in Xen virtuals machines
<pmjdebruijn> would it be reasonable to think that this is why the usb related test might fail?
<geser> pmjdebruijn: does the documentation tell under which conditions the function this assert is checking might fail?
<pmjdebruijn> I'm not sure
<pmjdebruijn> didn't find it quickly
<pmjdebruijn> it builds just fine on my laptop
<geser> yes, this most likely is the cause
<broder> cemc: i can't reproduce the hardy install failure you reported with a fresh install or with an upgrade from the hardy version
<broder> cemc: is it possible you had installed your own backport before hand, where you hadn't changed the rules file?
<broder> tumbleweed: i don't think we need anything in the bug as verbose as what reverse-depends spits out now
<broder> i'm sort of experimenting at the moment, but it seems like something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/735526/ would be useful in the bug description
<broder> (though i'm a bit torn on what to sort by first)
<broder> tumbleweed: other notes: reverse-depends could stand to throw a nicer error on 404, and it would be nice if i didn't have to specify -a source separately to get r-build-deps
<Laney> broder: so what solutions are on the table?
<aboudreault> why my quilt push works.... bud debuild fails to apply my patch?
<mewerner_arand> aboudreault: Are they by any chance already applied?
<aboudreault> can't be.. otherwise my quilt push would'nt work in the same directory
<mewerner_arand> Hmm...
<aboudreault> can dh_quilt be more explicit?
<aboudreault> verbose
<jtaylor> no 3.0 package?
<aboudreault> if I remove the first patch in the serie file... all other are applied.
<aboudreault> but I can do a quilt push, and the patch is applied successfully
<jtaylor> if its no 3.0 package is possible that its already applied
<aboudreault> and I can't see the .rej
<aboudreault> debian/source/format is 3.0
<jtaylor> and its using dh_quilt?
<jtaylor> thats not good
<broder> Laney: infinity outlined them in the bug. they were (a) upgrade the sbuild lp uses, (b) somehow bypass NotAutomatic's effect on apt pinning, (c) hack sbuild to recognize when the resolver didn't install something because it's needed from backports and make it try again
<broder> (bug 888665 for reference)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<broder> Laney: my opinion is obviously secondary to that of the lp admins, but by my judgement, (a) is the most elegant solution (and therefore good in the long term), (b) is the simplest solution (and therefore good in the short term), and (c) is neither simple nor elegant and therefore probably shouldn't be considered
<micahg> and b is not a regression since this was the previous behaviour
<broder> but honestly, i wouldn't care if we regressed or not because we currently have multiple backports blocked on this bug
<micahg> well, it's problematic with backports on by default in oneiric
<broder> huh, do the release/proposed/update pockets build with backports enabled then? i hadn't considered that
<broder> i would have assumed that the sources.list for them are more hand-curated
<micahg> no, but someone might get more backports than intended
<broder> ah, sure
<broder> i think that's comparatively minimal risk, though
<broder> (since theoretically any backports they pick up should already have been tested against the oldpackages)
<micahg> and is the previous behavior of backports
<micahg> broder: BTW, we can't do component matching in backports since the components change between releases
<micahg> err, what sources are where cahnges
<broder> i know that's an issue. i had been led to believe it was possible for an archive admin to manually override component assignments when necessary
<broder> alternatively, we could make the lp folks cry and have the component matching change between pre- and post- release
<micahg> that would work :)
<tumbleweed> broder: (re rev-build-deps) yeah agree about 404, I have uncommitted changes to do that, they'll land when I've finished with something else I'm hacking on
<tumbleweed> broder: thanks for the paste, I can work with that
<broder> i'm not totally in love with the format, because i think it'll blow up quickly, so if you have ideas for improvements i'm open to them
<tumbleweed> broder: sure. Anyway, can't look right now, anyway
 * broder nods
<tumbleweed> broder: ok, error handling much improved, and can now do reverse-deps for all binaries produced by a source package. Implemented your example in requestbackport too
<broder> tumbleweed: awesome. though i think you're using the source release for the backport to find r-deps, instead of the dest release
<broder> ./requestbackport libgdata tells me i need to test claws-mail-gdata-plugin, which isn't in oneiric
<tumbleweed> oh, true
<tumbleweed> I was doing that right, and then thought I wasn't because of an unrelated bug
<broder> heh. and i would find it helpful to have blank entries for packages with no r-deps, just so that we can see at a glance that they've been considered
<tumbleweed> it's hard thinking about reverse-anything
<tumbleweed> easy enough to add
<broder> is it considering r-build-deps?
<broder> (this looks awesome, though. i think having a standardized format for these things opens up a lot of possibility for speeding up and automating processing)
<tumbleweed> should be
<broder> doesn't seem to be catching them. reverse-depends src:libgdata doesn't either
<broder> also, "The report has not been changed, but you have to explain why the Ubuntu changes can be dropped." i assume that's from cargo-culting requestsync code? :)
<tumbleweed> you want reverse-depends -b src:libgdata
<tumbleweed> heh, ok, so that needs refactoring :)
<broder> ah
<broder> tumbleweed: line 122, you iterate over arch in ('any', 'source'), then hardcode 'any'
<broder> (also explains why it was listing everything twice :-P)
<tumbleweed> ah, that's it
<tumbleweed> that's the bug I was going after right now, too
<tumbleweed> r1218
<broder> awesome. oh, ugh. requestbackport -d natty libgdata seems to barf because the set of binary package names changed
<tumbleweed> do you think my web API for the rdepends service is reasonable? It's a good idea to get that kind of thing right before depending on it...
<tumbleweed> ah, easily solved with another defaultdict
<broder> well, that would build-in a reliance that a given binary is always provided by the same source, wouldn't it?
<broder> i think to do this right you might have to get the list of binary packages for the source package you're backporting from, then do a arch=source and arch=any r-deps query for each of those
<broder> instead of using the src: query
<tumbleweed> no, the problem here is simply a skew in binary names between source and target
<tumbleweed> you want to list all binary names, so I was trusting the source to be the same as all the targets
<tumbleweed> the src: query does exactly what you are suggesting
<broder> are you sure? what happens if the package getting backported contains a binary that used to be provided by a different package (e.g. backporting git to when it was still called git-core)
<tumbleweed> I don't see any reasonable way of solving that
<tumbleweed> oh, right, sorry I misread your suggestion (1am...)
<broder> no worries :)
<tumbleweed> yeah, we could do that
<tumbleweed> it'd be slower, of course
<broder> right, more round trips
<tumbleweed> (1am and a fair number of glasses of wine, perfect time for coding :P )
<broder> we *could* work around that by making it possible to pass multiple arguments to the rdepends service, though you couldn't use the REST-y scheme you have now to do that
<tumbleweed> yeah, I've pushed that scheme about as far as it can go
<tumbleweed> would you even cosider a backport that builds a binary package also built by another source package (which is the only place where you'd expect to find reverse-dependencies that match this problem)
<broder> i can imagine circumstances where i'd approve it
<broder> e.g. a git backport, because gnuit/git didn't have any r-deps at the time
<tumbleweed> is it worth the extra round trips?
<tumbleweed> anyway, I pushed the defaultdict change
<broder> i'd rather make the extra round trips and have the tool be correct. we can optimize for round trips later, but i don't want to have to clean up when we hit those corner cases
<tumbleweed> broder: ok, I get the feeling I may want to be clearer about the ignored dependencies (like you were in your example)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-12
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Not quite. Things were different in those days.
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Security updates ere done by handing a source to the security team, who uploaded it to a dak instance, built everything there, then uploaded source+binaries to LP. So most secuirity uploads from back then probably have oddly named changes files :/
<broder> tumbleweed: requestbackport is looking awesome. i just ran through all the list of pending-but-approved backports and it came up with the right information for all of them
<broder> remaining issues: (a) it looks like it's including reverse-suggests. i don't expect people to test recommends or suggests, so those should be ignorable
<broder> (b) now that we have the checklist, the only other testing that needs to be documented is b/i/r for the package itself...which we could probably do by adding entries to the checklist itself
<broder> and then we can probably drop the "Testing performed" section entirely
<broder> tumbleweed: hmm, possibly (c) if the user specifies a non-existent source package, check to see if it's a binary package name before bailing (and adjust appropriately)
<tumbleweed> wgrant: suprised I haven't run into more of them, then. I'm scraping all upload history, for udd.debian.org
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Interesting. Perhaps they sometimes were _source.changes despite containing binaries.
<tumbleweed> oh, I just checked my logs. Yes, there were many
<tumbleweed> the practice seems to have started around dapper
<tumbleweed> Laney: um, that's a problem, I guess we need to survive without them
<tumbleweed> oh, right, we are. nm
<tumbleweed> broder: I didn't filter suggests, enhances, etc, because I thought they were worth mentioning. Should I mention them, but not as checklist items, or add a sentance to the instructions saying they can be ignored?
<tumbleweed> I can't see enough information in the LP API, to locate the source package that built a binary, but we can ask apt
<tumbleweed> broder: how's that? (r1223)
<Laney> morning
<l3on> Hi all... I'm trying to use requestsync but I've some problem :/
<tumbleweed> Laney: what is it?
<tumbleweed> err l3on
<l3on> Please edit the report and give an explanation.
<l3on> Not saving the report file will abort the request.
<tumbleweed> Laney, broder: happy with requestbackport ?
<l3on> what is a report exactly?
<l3on> I mean.. which kind of info I've to report there ? And, is there an example somewhere?
<tumbleweed> l3on: requestsync is going to file a bug report. The report is the bug report that it'll file
<tumbleweed> l3on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<l3on> I'm reading it..
<l3on> What I understand is:
<l3on> 1. You can use LP web iterface or reqeustsync
<l3on> if you want use requestsync use command in this way:
<l3on>  blabla blalba blala
<l3on> So.. what's wrong? :)
<tumbleweed> are you saying you can't read the wiki page because it's too long?
<l3on> tumbleweed, maybe
<Laney> manage-credentials?!
<tumbleweed> Laney: that may still be necessary on lucid...
<Laney> tumbleweed: haven't tried it, sorry
<tumbleweed> Laney: why do you think I'm prodding you :)
<tumbleweed> l3on: "Content of a sync request" answers the first question you asked
<tumbleweed> how about you tell us what you are trying to file a sync request for?
<l3on> apt-cacher
<l3on> and thanks for input :)
<tumbleweed> so, we currently have an ubuntu-delta for apt-cacher
<l3on> what do you mean with ubuntu-delta ?
<tumbleweed> we've changed it in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> the current version is 1.6.12ubuntu1. The "ubuntu" means it's been modified
<l3on> I know the basic tumbleweed :)
<tumbleweed> The last upload was a merge, so the current state of the delta should be summarised in the changelog https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-cacher/1.6.12ubuntu1
<l3on> Changes are now in debian
<tumbleweed> fantastic, thesn please file a sync request and say so :)
<tumbleweed> requestsync --lp apt-cacher
<l3on> but I'm not sure about a file "apt-cacher2" that's in 1.6.12-1ubuntu1 but not in new version 1.7.1
<tumbleweed> looks like apt-cacher2 moved to apt-cacher, and doesn't include the changes we have to apt-cacher2
<l3on> tumbleweed, mmm
<l3on> sure?
<l3on> I see a NEWS somewhere...
<l3on> line 89
<l3on> tumbleweed, in debian changelog I can read:
<l3on> * Add changelog and NEWS.Debian to installer_files_regexp
<tumbleweed> ah, right, yes, I think that covers it
<l3on> Ok I proceed :)
<l3on> tumbleweed, maype there's a lack on debug symbol package
<tumbleweed> ah, yes. You'll need to do a merge. And please pass that patch to the debian maintainer
<tumbleweed> no
<tumbleweed> package_files_regexp includes ddeb
<l3on> yes you're right
<l3on> d|deb
<tumbleweed> (u|d)?deb
<l3on> yep :)
<broder> tumbleweed: sorry, we hit my too-tired-to-be-useful point about 2 hours ago. i'll take another look after catching some shuteye
<tumbleweed> broder: err yes, why are you awake?
<broder> not really sure :)
<l3on> tumbleweed, thanks for help... sync reported :)
<tumbleweed> l3on: seeing as I've already reviewed it, I'll sponsor it
<l3on> thanks again :D
<l3on> bug 889448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 889448 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "Sync apt-cacher 1.7.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889448
<tumbleweed> there are a fair number of open bugs for it in LP. Do you think any of them are fixed by the new version?
<l3on> let me see
<l3on> tumbleweed, this 83987 is fixed in debian
<l3on> bug 83987
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 83987 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "apt-cacher doesn't know about Translation-[lang].bz2 files" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83987
<l3on> tumbleweed, this bug 219095 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219095 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "apt-cacher: keep getting 400 No Request Recieved" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219095
<tumbleweed> neither of those were explicitly closed in the debian changelog (only the debian versions of the bugs)
<tumbleweed> Can you make a comment in the sync request bug, with the list of bugs to close, when it's synced?
<l3on> of course!
<tumbleweed> great, then we can close them, then
<l3on> tumbleweed, It's right:
<l3on> According to debian bug system, these bug could be closed because fixed in debian:
<l3on>  * https://launchpad.net/bugs/83987
<l3on>  * https://launchpad.net/bugs/219095
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 83987 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "apt-cacher doesn't know about Translation-[lang].bz2 files" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219095 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "apt-cacher: keep getting 400 No Request Recieved" [Low,Confirmed]
<l3on> or more info is needed ?
<tumbleweed> sounds fine
<l3on> comment filed :)
<tumbleweed> thanks. Hopefully I'll remember to close them when the sync is processed.
<l3on> wait
<l3on> :)
<l3on> there's another bug :P
<l3on> bug 366293
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366293 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "Non-existent i18n files lead to needless server failover" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366293
<l3on> Someone knows why "LDFLAGS += -Wl,--no-as-needed" should be important in debian/rules? :)
<jtaylor> it shouldn't
<jtaylor> you only need that in very rare cases
<l3on> I'm trying merge gnome-phone-manager
<l3on> and it does it
<jtaylor> its better to fix the build to work with as-needed
<l3on> It's the only change, others are now in Debian, and I don't know if I've to request a sync or not
<jtaylor> does it build in ubuntu?
<l3on> this is the build without any changes:
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/gnome-phone-manager_0.68-1ubuntu1/gnome-phone-manager_0.68-1ubuntu1.buildlog
<l3on> of course!
<jtaylor> and are all plugins fully linked?
<jtaylor> aka does it run
<l3on> Let me try :)
<jtaylor> do a build without that flag and check dpkg-shlibdeps
<l3on> The build I showed you is without that flag
<jtaylor> seems fine then
<jtaylor> to be sure check ldd -r of all shared libraries
<jtaylor> if thats ok it can be synced
<l3on> I can't install it damn it
<l3on> because I'm on oneric right now
<l3on> jtaylor, some suggestions ? :)
<jtaylor> why can't you install it in oneiric?
<l3on> depends on
<l3on>  gnome-phone-manager depends on libebook1.2-12 (>= 3.2.1); however:
<l3on>   Version of libebook1.2-12 on system is 3.2.0-0ubuntu1.
<l3on>  gnome-phone-manager depends on libedataserver1.2-15 (>= 3.2.1); however:
<l3on>   Version of libedataserver1.2-15 on system is 3.2.0-0ubuntu1.
<jtaylor> did youbuild it for oneiric?
<l3on> no precise
<jtaylor> if it isn't installable in precise - no sync
<jtaylor> to test you can build in oneiric
<jtaylor> so far I know there are no toolchain differences that are relevant
<tumbleweed> but ifyou are going to be doing any reasonable amounts of work on Ubuntu, you probably want to set up local chroots / pbuilder, so that you can test things like that
<l3on> tumbleweed, I know ... I'll do it :)
<l3on> jtaylor, bug 889563
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 889563 in gnome-phone-manager (Ubuntu) "Sync gnome-phone-manager 0.68-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889563
<l3on> Hi all, I'm receving this error during merge cdebootstrap
<l3on>  error: ignoring return value of 'fgets', declared with attribute warn_unused_result [-Werror=unused-result]
<l3on> And in debian/rules I have:
<l3on> CFLAGS_DEB = -Wall -W -Werror -ggdb
<l3on> What's the best way to fix it?
<l3on> remove -Werror or control fgets return value ?
<tumbleweed> well, it's a bug. It should be fixed upstream by checking the return value, and appropriately handling error situations
<l3on> tumbleweed, and for now what you suggest to do ?
<tumbleweed> if it doesn't look particularly dangerous, then -Wno-error=unused-result may be the easiest solution for Ubuntu
<l3on> ok, i'll try :)
<l3on> tumbleweed, take a look at this:
<l3on> CFLAGS_DEB = -Wall -W -Werror -ggdb
<l3on> CFLAGS_STATIC = -Wall -W -Werror
<l3on> CFLAGS_UDEB = -Wall -W -Werror
<l3on> I've just to edit CFLAGS_DEB ?
<tumbleweed> I assume those apply to the three binary packages it builds
<tumbleweed> so probably all of them
<l3on> ok, thanks.. I'll try :)
<tumbleweed> you probably want to add support for precise while you're there
<tumbleweed> did you notice bug 884185?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884185 in cdebootstrap (Ubuntu) "Please merge cdebootstrap 0.5.8 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884185
<l3on> I knwo and I did :)
<l3on> oh wow! But it's not reported in m.u.com/universe !
<l3on> well :)
<tumbleweed> that was two weeks ago
<tumbleweed> dupondje: still working on it?
<tumbleweed> the previous uploader is considered responsible for merging into the next release, and it's a good idea to ask before starting a merge. But if you don't, the worst you can do is waste your time
<tumbleweed> *before starting someone else's merge
<tumbleweed> btw, if you are looking for packages that are most in need of merging: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/oldmerges/ and http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/bugs/rcbugs/precise/
<l3on> tumbleweed, thanks! :)
<l3on> tumbleweed, well... learn me to use that websites :)
<l3on> ops.. s/learn/teach/ :)
<tumbleweed> which one?
<l3on> The oldmerges are merges older than 90 days, it's clear :)
<l3on> so I can take one of these without carry about last uploader
<l3on> but.. second one?
<tumbleweed> right, of course some of the onse at the top of oldmerges are rather hard / not actually mergeable
<tumbleweed> but many others are just neglected
<tumbleweed> The rcbugs page lists packages that have had RC (release critical) bugs fixed in Debian, but we haven't got those fixed versions yet
<l3on> and I can take it without contact old uploader ?
<tumbleweed> the bug fixed may not affect Ubuntu, but they're a good way to find easy improvements for ubuntu
<l3on> well cdeboostrab now builds :)
<tumbleweed> contacting the old uploader is never a bad idea, but nothing requires you to
<tumbleweed> you can also look a tthe upload history, to get afeeling for how much someone cares about a package
<dupondje> hi !
<dupondje> started with cdebootstap, but did some bugreporting in debian first
<dupondje> to get it fixed there
<dupondje> l3on: its indeed build with -Wno-error atm
<dupondje> thats quite fine, but they should fix it upstream also, anyway :)
<dupondje> also add Precise to dists
<dupondje> and your fine
<dupondje> feel free to upload the merge
<l3on> Ok :)
<l3on> I edited how tumbleweed suggested
<l3on> and it builds
<dupondje> well its currently also build with additional options for those build errors
<l3on> I've to contact upstream ?
<dupondje> you could, I already asked them to add oneiric & precise
<dupondje> not the build errors yes
<dupondje> Also you need to check if NO_PKG_MANGLE is still needed
<tumbleweed> l3on: we like to push everything upstream whenever possible. Maintaining deltas (differences) in Ubuntu is painful (it requires merging, and we can't keep up with all the merges)
<l3on> dupondje, how can I do it ?
<l3on> tumbleweed, thanks :)
<dupondje> l3on: well there is where I got stuck ... :D
<l3on> lol
<l3on> here the buildlog: http://debomatic.debian.net/oneiric/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1.buildlog
<tumbleweed> l3on: you should be building for precise, not oneiric
<tumbleweed> also, that's the failed build
<l3on> gosh.. sorry, wrong url
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1.buildlog
<l3on> :)
<tumbleweed> so, you want to know if NO_PKG_MANGLE is still needed
<tumbleweed> if you read the ubuntu changelog, you can see why it was added
<l3on> I would know what is NO_PKG_MANGLE and I'm googling it :)
<tumbleweed> hrm, don't know if that's well documented anywhere
<tumbleweed> we have a package called pkgbinarymangler, that we install in our build chroots (although debomatic doesn't appear to have it. DktrKranz?)
<tumbleweed> it allows us to mangle the packages a little during the build, for the things that we do differently to debian
<dupondje> its for translations I think
<dupondje> but not totally sure
<tumbleweed> e.g. it sets the maintainer to "Ubuntu Developers", removes translations, yes, optimises PNGs, removes changelogs https://launchpad.net/pkgbinarymangler
<l3on> and how you know if we need it ?
<tumbleweed> oh, sorry debomatic does have it. I missed that
<tumbleweed> well, cdebootstrap is a bit odd. You'll notice the debs it builds contain debs
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: unping, nm
<l3on> yep, it's right I've debs inside deb
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1.contents
<tumbleweed> the changelog entry that added NO_PKG_MANGLE says:
<tumbleweed> helper/Makefile.am, helper/Makefile.in: Set NO_PKG_MANGLE while building nested packages so that pkgstriptranslations doesn't kick in.
<tumbleweed> I don't think anything would have changed there, that's still a potential problem
<tumbleweed> you can, of course, forward that patch to Debian too, it will do nothing in Debian, and make Ubuntu's life easier
<dupondje> that has been forwared to debian
<dupondje> and rejected btw
<dupondje> so :)
<l3on> lol
<tumbleweed> right, debian bug 486899
<ubottu> Debian bug 486899 in cdebootstrap "cdebootstrap: Please set NO_PKG_MANGLE while building nested package" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/486899
<l3on> well tumbleweed, if I understood.. NO_PKG_MANGLE should allow us to not have nested packeges
<l3on> but... using it I've still debs inside debs
<l3on> That's new contents:
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1.contents
<tumbleweed> l3on: the problem is that debian package building is modified by the presense of pkgbinarymangler. But this can be disabled by exporting NO_PKG_MANGLE
<tumbleweed> we don't want those modifications on the nested packages
<l3on> this is the patch :
<l3on> http://paste.ubuntu.com/736721/
<tumbleweed> that looks right
<l3on> ok :)
<l3on> i'll debdiff and upload the bug :)
<l3on> thanks (again!) :)
<l3on> ok, done bug 884185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884185 in cdebootstrap (Ubuntu) "Please merge cdebootstrap 0.5.8 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884185
<l3on> thanks tumbleweed dupondje :)
<dupondje> +    - Patch 002-Fix-netsted-packages.patch setting NO_PKG_MANGLE while building
<dupondje> typo
<l3on> dupondje, mmm... is it important ? :/
<l3on> I need to redebuild ?!
<dupondje> and I see the series seems adjusted in the code
<dupondje> and there is also a patch included ...
<l3on> double type, patch name heading with 0002_...
<l3on> s/type/typo/
<l3on> ok.. maybe it's time to go bed :)
<l3on> dupondje, suggestions ? :)
<l3on> well I've to go.. bye bye and thanks for all :)
<l3on> see you :)
<broder> tumbleweed: ok, actually taking a look at the requestbackport changes. i would like the installability checkbox to be per-binary package, to make it explicit that people test all of them
<broder> (i screwed that up once in the past)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-13
<tumbleweed> broder: r1229
<broder> tumbleweed: +1
<Laney> r1230?
<Laney> hohohohoho
<tumbleweed> Laney: if you want that, find a bug
<tumbleweed> I still need to make a more generic report editor, that doesn't talk about Ubuntu deltas
<tumbleweed> (and in fact, the rest of requestsync.common needs to go away, too)
<tumbleweed> but that's non-urgent, I'll probably get to that tomorrow
<broder> tumbleweed: uh, if you want a 1230, maybe change "installs and removes cleanly" to "installs cleanly and runs". removes cleanly is nice, but not traditionally part of our standard
<tumbleweed> and runs doesn't apply to libraries
<tumbleweed> but I assume we can assome some intelligence in the user
<broder> i always hold out hope
<Laney> python-gnomekeyring managed to make a return :(
<broder> ...are there not GI bindings for gnome-keyring?
<tumbleweed> the problem isn't GI, but that it needs a running dbus
<tumbleweed> it probably should be GIed, though, yes
<broder> does it not just throw an exceptoin or something if there's no session bus or gnome-keyring-daemon isn't running?
<Laney> thanks equivs
<tumbleweed> yes, which launchpadlib doesn't deal with very well
<broder> oh, ugh
<Laney> it shows the rdeps stuff even if there aren't any
<tumbleweed> that is true
<broder> (hmm...there's a gir1.2-gnomekeyring-2.0 in debian. why don't we have one?)
<tumbleweed> sounds new, I don't have that (/me shakes his fist at the local mirror which is on the blink again)
<Laney> is it going to post this whole thing to the bug report?
<tumbleweed> Laney: yes
<Laney> interesting
<tumbleweed> I'll skip the reverse dependencies section, if there are none
<broder> hmm. nope, it's old. shipped in lucid, then got removed in maverick with a reference to bug #677382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 677382 in midgard2-core (Ubuntu Natty) "gir-repository fails to build from source in natty: eliminate reverse dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677382
<broder> err, sorry. removed in natty
<Laney> nn
<broder> is there a specific channel for udd stuff? i want to figure out what http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/lintian.html#2011-03-15 15:14:12.494272 means and if there's any hope of fixing it simply
<tumbleweed> not that I know of
<tumbleweed> Laney: r1231
<wgrant> broder: That looks like it's running into a limitation of the current bzr format: filenames can't contain backslashes.
<broder> Laney: do you not like the checklist going into the bug report? it seems to me like a good way to present the state of the bug
<broder> i'm also planning to write bots that operate on that checklist (e.g. pick out bugs where all the testing has been finished)
<JackRichards> Hello
<JackRichards> I am just wondering is it possible to become a MOTU without learning a program launge
<JackRichards> ?
<JackRichards> ANyone can help?
<siretart> JackRichards: there are many tasks you can do as MOTU without really knowing how to code
<siretart> JackRichards: it is otoh a great opportunity to learn one ;-)
<siretart> :-/
<ajmitch> siretart: hi, haven't seen you around here for awhile
<siretart> hi ajmitch, yeah, I've been pretty busy lately
<siretart> ajmitch: how are you doing these days?
<ajmitch> I'm well, been busy enough as well
<siretart> :-)
<ajmitch> trying to find my way back into development at some point :)
<siretart> so I've learned from the news that revu is going to be deprecated? do you know details who is working on this?
<ajmitch> it's something that's been talked about for a few months, and will take some time to do as the plan is to use mentors.debian.net, afaik
<siretart> programming, yeah, I'm actually doing quite a lot of programming these days (shameless plug: http://vamos.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/trac/undertaker)
<ajmitch> it'd mean that spooky could finally have its rest :)
<siretart> yeah, that's what I understand. I'm not sure though who is actually working on it
<ajmitch> I don't know if anyone has stepped up to help out with debexpo yet, if not then revu will likely stay around for a bit longer
<siretart> and yes, spooky is giving me some worries. AFAIUI, the yellow light tells me that the cpu fans are failing. but that's already the case for several months and the machine didn't blow up yet :-)
<siretart> in any case, I don't think that spooky will be a good machine for that.
<siretart> do we have some other machine where we relocate revu to?
<ajmitch> right, I don't think that spooky will still be needed
<ajmitch> yes, I was meaning to relocate it to a VM on the ubuntuwire host
<siretart> otoh, that will be quite some work. not sure if its worth the efford
<siretart> effort
<ajmitch> would you like me to move it so the old hardware can be taken down before it burns? :)
<siretart> if you have the time and energy to do it, I think that would be a safe option
<ajmitch> OK
<ajmitch> thank you for providing spooky for all these years :)
<siretart> I really don't know how much I can trust the machine, it's an old sunfire sparc server, that has served us for over a decade
<ajmitch> still running hardy, isn't it?
<siretart> you're welcome :-)
<siretart> siretart@spooky:~$ lsb_release -c -s
<siretart> hardy
<ajmitch> probably getting a little hard to upgrade still :)
<siretart> oh, hardy isn't EOL, yet :-)
<ajmitch> no, but the fun of backporting dpkg & lintian & other packages wears thin
<siretart> indeed
<StevenK> siretart: It's a Sparc, it will just warn you with red lights as the processor melts.
<siretart> StevenK: isn't it then a bit to late to worry?
<Laney> broder: i did not say that, it just wasn't clear to me
<Laney> do we care about 'upgrades cleanly'?
<Laney> also, putting the submitter's lp ID in the backportpackage call isn't right
<Laney> nobody else will be able to upload there :-)
<tumbleweed> Laney: might aswe ll avoid substitution for at least one person, right?
<Laney> you could give it to the user when they file
<tumbleweed> right
<Laney> or "replace <myusername> with your own"
<Laney> or, if you offer to run it for the user before they file, then you can put that in the report
<tumbleweed> that sounds sensible
<rigved> hi everyone. i was following this Ubuntu Open Week session on Getting Started with Ubuntu Development by dholbach. I cannot seem to find any bitesize bug on harvest that has not already been fixed. Is there any simple bug that I can get started on?
<astraljava> rigved: Probably new bitesize bugs will creep in more and more as the devel cycle progresses. We're still in the early stages of Precise.
<rigved> astraljava: ok.
<Kiall> is anyone use around who knows how to enable universe while creating a image with git-pbuilder?
<tumbleweed> "creating a image" ?
<tumbleweed> just sounds like you don't have universe enabled in your pbuilder
<Kiall> creating the base, not sure if its called an image or what ;)
<Kiall> oh, i thought I'd have to enable it in git-pbuilder..
<Kiall> I'll google for enabling it in plain pbuilder
<tumbleweed> I assume git-pbuilder is just a wrapper that calls pbuilder
<tumbleweed> COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted" in your .pbuilderc should do the trick
<Kiall> Ah, I had tried that as a env var while running git-pbuilder create, I guess it needs to be in the config..
<tumbleweed> pbuilderrc even
<Kiall> tumbleweed: thanks, giving the create another run now..
<Kiall> tumbleweed: that worked a charm, thanks
<tumbleweed> broder, Laney, bdrung: I'll merge the requestbackport branch into trunk. I think it's done
<tumbleweed> (and yes, the branch is full of not-really-related stuff)
<broder> tumbleweed: the backportpackage example lines don't actually include a package name :)
<broder> but +1 other than that
<tumbleweed> fixed
<cemc> [11/11-202059] <broder> cemc: is it possible you had installed your own backport before hand, where you hadn't changed the rules file?
<cemc> I don't think so, because I installed a fresh hardy in a VM for the test
<hrw> can someone take a look at fuse debdiff in bug 884907 and give opinion? (cjwatson did all previous merges from Debian - I hope to get this package properly)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884907 in fuse (Ubuntu) "Merge fuse from Debian for fuse-utils â fuse rename" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884907
 * hrw -> off
<cjwatson> hrw: argh
<cjwatson> hrw: I was in the middle of a merge, now I have to reconcile?
<cjwatson> hrw: you're meant to ask the previous merger *before you start* to avoid duplicated work :-/
<cjwatson> hrw: and it's in bzr, so honestly, I'm not sure it's easier to review a debdiff ...
<cjwatson> I could have told you that if you'd just askked
<cjwatson> *asked
<cjwatson> (sorry, I meant last uploader in the above, not last merger)
<cjwatson> yay for powerpc builders having caught up
<Laney> we getting the new one soon?
<cjwatson> Laney: no sooner than a week and a bit from now, last I heard
<cjwatson> (which wasn't a commitment to then, either :-/)
<cjwatson> I've been hassling from time to time
<Laney> the wheels of change turn slowly
<Laney> yay for discovering mismerges
<broder> cemc: ok, let me get a vm going. now that i think about it, i was working in a chroot, so it wouldn't have tried to start services or anything
<cemc> broder: let me know if I can help with anything
<Resistance> broder:  any progress on that bug blocking the natty backport?
<broder> Resistance: no, not yet, but it is the weekend
<Resistance> true :P
<Resistance> was just curioius :P
<Resistance> curious*
<broder> cemc: i just spun up a hardy EC2 instance and installed the package and still didn't get an error, so i'm not sure how to debug this
<broder> uh, what arch were you testing with?
 * cjwatson is disappointed to find that the lintian description of more-than-one-patch-system is quite restrained
<cemc> broder: i386. let me check again, ok?
 * broder is terrified by the number of packages overriding more-than-one-patch-system
<broder> cemc: great, thanks. please double-check when you do that you get the right package out of my ppa
<micahg_> well, cdbs + quilt can be normal
<micahg_> depending on how it's figuring it
<broder> micahg_: it just looks at dpatch and quilt
<cemc> broder: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/737759/
<broder> huh, that certainly looks right. need to run for a few, but i'll test it myself when i get back
<cemc> broder: ok, thanks. I need to sleep (1am here), but we can continue tomorrow, just leave me a message
<broder> cemc: yeah, it looks like (a) i typo'd something when i was fixing the rules file, and (b) a different postinst is getting generated on amd64 and i386, which means i probably screwed up my targets
 * cjwatson fails to see why the yorick diff is still needed (or was ever needed in the first place, given that there are no matches for lcr or libcr in the source code) and syncs it instead
<cjwatson> (test-built cleanly)
<broder> bah, does anybody remember how pre-override_* dh sequencer works? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/84899905/pdns-recursor_3.3-2~hardy1.debdiff is only working on the i386 build, not amd64
<cjwatson> I think your problem is binary vs. binary-arch
<cjwatson> s/binary:/binary-arch:/ and append 'binary-indep:' and 'binary: binary-arch binary-indep'
<cjwatson> also "defaults 19 852" looks like a typo
<broder> yeah, i was going to get that as well :)
<broder> what do you mean by append binary-indep:? just add it as an empty target?
<cjwatson> yes, it has to exist but empty is fine
<cjwatson> oh, wait, you still have %:
<cjwatson> ignore that part then, just binary -> binary-arch
<cjwatson> so that was untested; looking at a vintage dh you might actually need to be a bit smarter
<cjwatson> dh_installinit is in the install sequence, while dh_strip is in the binary-arch sequence
<cjwatson> so I think I would be inclined to do:
<cjwatson> install:
<cjwatson>         dh $@ --before dh_installinit
<cjwatson>         dh_installinit --error-handler=initscript_error -- defaults 19 85
<cjwatson>         dh $@ --remaining
<cjwatson> binary-arch:
<cjwatson>         dh $@ --before dh_strip
<cjwatson>         dh_strip --dbg-package=pdns-recursor-dbg
<cjwatson>         dh $@ --remaining
<cjwatson> s/^binary-arch:/binary-arch: install/
<cjwatson> overrides are so much nicer - I never really put lots of thought into learning the early dh7 style
<broder> yeah, i considered it to be an unacceptable replacement for cdbs until overrides came along
<broder> thanks, though - i'll play with that
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-05
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> Good morning Dan =)
<dholbach> hey ESphynx
<ESphynx> what's shaking :)
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch and dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<highvoltage> hello everyone
<Laney> greetings
<lenios> does anybody know where to find why a package has been removed for ubuntu repositories? i just found luma package has been removed from quantal repositories and i'm trying to find why
<Laney> lenios: go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<yourpackagename>/+publishinghistory and expand the "Deleted" entry
<lenios> thank you for the info
<lenios> there's only a Deleted on 2012-06-20 by Colin Watson Deleted on 2012-06-20 by Colin Watson linking to https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/676953 which doesn't look related...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 676953 in widelands "Revise the map pool" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<lenios> does cjwatson have a clue on this?
<Laney> it says Debian bug #whatever
<Laney> so you should go to http://bugs.debian.org/<that number>
<lenios> why is it linking to a launchpad bug?
<maxb> Erroneous automatic linkification of "bug NNNNNN" I would guess
<lenios> yes
<Laney> indeed
<lenios> http://bugs.debian.org/676953 is indeed related
<ubottu> Debian bug 676953 in ftp.debian.org "RM: luma -- RoQA; qt3" [Normal,Open]
<lenios> thanks for the help :)
<cjwatson> any time you see "(From Debian)" at the start of a removal comment, that indicates semi-automatic propagation of a removal from Debian
<cjwatson> you shouldn't assume I put any thought into it beyond checking that it didn't have any reverse-dependencies in Ubuntu
<lenios> yes, but there's an erroneous bug link
<cjwatson> can't help that
<lenios> sorry about that
<lenios> i should have thought longer
<cjwatson> (well, in principle I could help that, by submitting a branch to LP to change the linkification of "Debian bug ..." - but I'm unlikely to get round to that)
<lenios> .j #luma
<lenios> oops!
<ricotz> debfx, hi :)
<ricotz> debfx, i am hoping you will find some time to push some updates for virtualbox
<debfx> ricotz: my motivation to work on virtualbox has kind of dropped since version 4.2 is not DFSG-free anymore
<debfx> I have prepared some fixes for quantal but not sure if I'll maintain it beyond that
<ricotz> debfx, oh :\, havent seen that, updating to 4.1.22 is the most you will do then?
<debfx> ricotz: virtualbox constantly needs updates for new kernel and XServer versions so keeping an old version in the archive is not an option
<ricotz> debfx, right, backporting the 3.7 and 1.13 bits from 4.2 are surely a pita then?
<debfx> I would think so and it will become more difficult
<ricotz> i see, this doesnt sound promising then
<xnox> tumbleweed: broder has a librarian proxy? =)
<xnox> tumbleweed: can it be like hosted on ubuntuwire?
<tumbleweed> I think it's *very* slow
<tumbleweed> you have to walk a lot of SSPH records to generate a Packages file
<tumbleweed> and then you can't sign it...
<tumbleweed> but, if you were to archive the packages files, and SPPH records, you could make something pretty fast
<cjwatson> yeah, I'd definitely recommend against trying to autogenerate Packages
<tumbleweed> (context: historical Packages - a snapshot.ubuntu.com...)
<xnox> tumbleweed: yeah the plan is to keep packages/dists as is (e.g. rsnapshot) bug fake pool/ by redirecting to the librarian.
<xnox> s/bug/but/
<tumbleweed> sounds workable
<xnox> tumbleweed: does ubuntuwire have space fore rsnapshot dists/ ?
<tumbleweed> xnox: #ubuntuwire. How much space are we talking about?
<xnox> tumbleweed: good point. I have a workitem to estimate space needs =)
<alo21> how do I know if I should make a sync or a merge?
<Laney> you have to analyse the changes Ubuntu made in the previous version and figure out whether they are still needed
<alo21> Laney: for example?
<Laney> hmm?
<achiang> is it acceptable to file sync requests yet? (iow, is the archive open)
<jtaylor> alo21: for example openttd
<jtaylor> (which I'm just looking at)
<Laney> achiang: yeah
<achiang> Laney: thanks
<jtaylor> alo21: it has an ubuntu diff to handle fontconfig2.10
<jtaylor> debian does not need it yet but the issue was forwarded
<jtaylor> now a new version is in experimental which fixes the issue
<jtaylor> so the diff can be dropped -> sync
<alo21> jtaylor: to know if the new version (in debian) fixes the bug, I should look the changelog. Right?
<jtaylor> alo21: thats the first place to look
<jtaylor> but you must make sure it is really fixed properly
<jtaylor> for that you check the change and the ubuntu diff
<jtaylor> and test it
<alo21> jtaylor: i am looking for a package (https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html) here
<jtaylor> why do changes generated from syncpackage not include the full diff to debian (like when you merge with -v<last-ubu-version>?
<alo21> jtaylor: for example the package picard-tools. where is the debdiff?
<jtaylor> alo21: you download the packages and use debdiff
<jtaylor> or use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+localpackagediffs
<jtaylor> but its normally much slower
<jtaylor> you can also quickly get the ubuntu diff from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/picard-tools/+changelog
<alo21> jtaylor: ok
<alo21> jtaylor: here are two picard-tools' changelog (debian: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/picard-tools/current/changelog and LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/picard-tools/+changelog)
<alo21> I think that in this case I should make a sync request
<alo21> 1) the bugs were fixed in debian too 2) the ubuntu's package is old
<alo21> am I right?
<jtaylor> yes looks syncable
<jtaylor> but testbuild it first
<alo21> jtaylor: why? It comes directly from debian, without any chages
<jtaylor> you still need to test it
<jtaylor> just because it builds in debian does not mean it does in ubuntu
<jtaylor> there are plenty of differences
<jtaylor> especially with java
<jtaylor> debian uses java6 as default raring has java7
<alo21> if the buid fails, I should change some files. Where do I have to upload it?
<jtaylor> you put the changes in a bug or a bzr branch and ask for sponsorship
<alo21> ok. thanks
<ScottK> jtaylor: You should be aware that +changelog on LP is not a full changelog.  Only the changelog bits that LP saw in a changes file (so given the lack of -v for syncs a lot is often missing)
<jtaylor> yes I know, I forgot to mention that
<jtaylor> its still one of the fastest ways to get the debdiff of an ubuntu only change which usually have no skipped versions
<jtaylor> you ahve to be more careful with merges
<ScottK> There is also http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/p/picard-tools/picard-tools_1.46-1ubuntu1/changelog
<ScottK> That leads to the actual package changelog.
<bdrung> xnox: "Fix 50 shades of python2,3 brokenness with cdbs." really?
<bdrung> xnox: http://www.firebox.com/product/5464/50-Shades-of-Gray-Book
<ESphynx> whhhatt
<ESphynx> support for resizing is being removed from parted? wtf
<ESphynx> If e2fsprogs is a better way to do it why doesn't parted usse the e2fs libraries and/or code and/or utilities???
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-06
<dholbach> good morning
<xnox> ESphynx: yeah they removed, than put it back in for the fs types they found no substitues for (fat and hfs or something like that....)
<xnox> ESphynx: I was more after this cover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:50ShadesofGreyCoverArt.jpg
<xnox> bdrung: : I was more after this cover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:50ShadesofGreyCoverArt.jpg
<ahayzen> Hi, if I have a python package which supports both py2 and py3 in the same package should I distribute it as python-abc or python3-abc or both? Thanks, Andy
<cjwatson> Is it a program or a module?
<ahayzen> it is a library really
<cjwatson> Then the Debian Python policy requires that you distribute python-abc and python3-abc
<ahayzen> ok thanks :)
<cjwatson> ahayzen: http://wiki.debian.org/Python/LibraryStyleGuide may help
<ahayzen> cjwatson: thank you
<Rhonda> Who again made me put my email address on packages.ubuntu.com?
<Rhonda> Laney, was that you?  I officially hate you now. :)
<TheLordOfTime> Rhonda, lol, did you get emails about given packages?
<Rhonda> TheLordOfTime: I receive tons of spam.
<Laney> Rhonda: hahaha
<TheLordOfTime> heh
<Laney> I didn't tell you to do that, I just pointed out that Frank's was out of date :-)
<Rhonda> I have rhonda@debian.org all over the web, and my private mail address.
<Rhonda> It seems the @ubuntu.com mail host doesn't do any spam counter measures, at all.
<TheLordOfTime> um...
<TheLordOfTime> afaik that's just a webforward
<Rhonda> Well, his address wasn't out of date.  He might (or might not) read mails there still.  It doesn't bounce. ;)
<TheLordOfTime> spam handling would need to be done at your client
<Laney> as a contact for that site
<Rhonda> He still has access. :)
<Rhonda> *sigh*
<Rhonda> Now someone asks me about some intrepid cd image download â¦
 * Rhonda nibbles even more on Laney
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you could just delete the contact info
<micahg> Rhonda: I would suggest address obfuscation if you haven't done that already
<Rhonda> "this website is maintained in teh intarwebz.  shout out your patches and eventually they will be picked up out of thin air."
<ESphynx> so a debian/changelog, you just keep adding to the top, right?
<jtaylor> yes
<ESphynx> jtaylor: thanks. can/should I put multiple lines in there?
<jtaylor> put in as many lines as you need
<jtaylor> too much doc is better than too little
<jtaylor> and use dch to edit it
<ESphynx> k.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: another u-d-t upload for the syncpackage & requestsync bugs?
<psusi> is launchpad fubar atm?  I can't access any bzr repos
<psusi> ahh, now it's working
<ESphynx> Why is dpkg-symbols generating the first line (middle thing) as libecere instead of libecere0? :S
<jtaylor> great you can't login to launchpad with opera now? ...
<jtaylor> shouldn't have deleted my cookies ...
<ESphynx> jtaylor sorry to bug you man, but any clue about that libecere vs libecere0? =)
<jtaylor> how does it look like?
<ESphynx> dpkg-gensymbols is giving me
<ESphynx> libEDA.so.0 libecere #MINVER#
<ESphynx> instead of
<ESphynx> libEDA.so.0 libecere0 #MINVER#
<ESphynx> as I currently have in my debian/ symbols files...
<ESphynx> just wondering why?
<ESphynx> I'm running: dpkg-gensymbols -plibecere0 -v0.44.01 -Odebian/libecere0.symbols
<ESphynx> also it's outputting symbols for 'all' my libs in that file (even the ones from other packages)... I guess it uses everything it built? I can just delete the unrelated ones... I remember I had to do this last time as well
<ESphynx> but I don't remember about the libecere vs libecere0 ... maybe I had to add the 0 myself as well? I can't recall
<jtaylor> just put the 0 there by hand
<ESphynx> fair enough =) thanks. was just wondering :P
<jtaylor> not sure why it outputs stuff for all libraries
<jtaylor> didn't use gensymbols in a while
<ESphynx> I built all... so.
<ESphynx> it maybe be fishing from the same spot where they're all together :S
<ESphynx> taking notes this time lol
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes. can you please tag 0.144?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sure
<bdrung> tumbleweed: will you backport the patches for syncpackage & requestsync to quantal?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah
<maxiaojun> hi
<jtaylor> I just got a weird mail about a sru for precise being accepted in raring?
<jtaylor> an sru I did in july
<jtaylor> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/raring-changes/2012-November/000621.html
<jtaylor> is something wrong with the archive?
<jtaylor> hm its probably because the sru has a to high version number oO
<jtaylor> how did that happen
<Laney> you took the new upstream release
<Laney> shouldnt it go to Q too?
<jtaylor> yes
<Laney> might want to ping to make sure it happens
<jtaylor> well it doesn't really
<jtaylor> it doesn'T need a rebuild
<Laney> for version number sanity
<Laney> it can probably be copied
<jtaylor> did someone copy it to raring to fix my mistake?
<Laney> looks like slangasek was doing some copying up
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> and have just copied to precise too
<jtaylor> you mean quantal?
<Laney> quantal?
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> that thing
<jtaylor> k thx
<Laney> good stuff
<slangasek> jtaylor: fwiw the correct version number here would have been either 2012.1-0ubuntu0.1
<slangasek> s/either //
<jtaylor> yes
<slangasek> also the SRU team should have caught it, meh
<jtaylor> I really make to many mistakes recently ...
<maxiaojun> package addition request: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-October/007340.html
<maxiaojun> ?
<jtaylor> maxiaojun: it is best to get your package into ubuntu via debian
<jtaylor> see http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers
<maxiaojun> ok
<maxiaojun> I'd like to ask, beside MIR, is there a similar process for multiverse to restricted?
<maxiaojun> I'm concerning VAAPI stuff.
<maxiaojun> They stay in universe/multiverse now
<arges> whats the procedure to maintain an ubuntu universe package? I'm looking right now at crash : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crash
<jtaylor> arges: that package is still maintained in debian
<jtaylor> http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/crash.html
<jtaylor> you could do the merge to raring
<arges> jtaylor, ok. how do I request that the version in unstable be uploaded to precise to raring?
<arges> jtaylor, sure how do I start that then?
<jtaylor> arges: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html
<jtaylor> merging is one of the more challenging tasks, it may not be the best to start with
<arges> jtaylor, thanks. yea shouldn't be a problem
<arges> jtaylor, i assume i file a bug with this branch linked, then get the attention of somebody who can upload?
<jtaylor> yes
<arges> cool
<jtaylor> when you propose the branch for merging it goes onto the sponsoring queue automatically
<jtaylor> for bugs you subscribe ubuntu-sponsors for that
<arges> jtaylor, i'm actually really looking for a debian sync of that package. i assume that's different than bzr merge
<arges> ahh i found requestsync
<xnox> arges: are you a developer?
<xnox> then you could use syncpackage....
<arges> xnox, no i'm not
 * xnox thought you might be already =)
<arges> xnox, i have prepped my wiki page, so one day...
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-07
<jtaylor> you can only sync if the ubuntu change is not needed anymore
<jtaylor> please explain why in the syncrequest
<jtaylor> must leave, bye
<arges> yup. need to push stuff to debian first before sync it seems
<arges> likewise, time to make some dinner
 * ScottK sits back and waits for xnox to fix ALL the things.
<ESphynx> W: libecerecom0: extended-description-line-too-long
<ESphynx> I: libecerecom0: extended-description-is-probably-too-short
<ESphynx> Seriously???
<micahg> hehe
<micahg> ESphynx: pastebin please?
<ESphynx> micahg of what?
<ESphynx> The control file?
<micahg> yes
<ESphynx> https://raw.github.com/ecere/sdk/ppa/debian/debian/control
<ESphynx> I'm in the process of reverting to my previous descriptions that I had myself carefully wrapped (To avoid these stupid lintian msgs I think)
<ESphynx> in fact, I'm ready to commit it :P
<micahg> ESphynx: wrap-and-sort is your friend
<ESphynx> micahg: No it's not.
<ESphynx> micahg: I ran it!
<ESphynx> it didn't do $#1^
<micahg> hrm, I thought it did descriptions...
<micahg> ESphynx: well, wrap at or before 80 char and you'll be fine
<ESphynx> that's what I was told . that's why I bothered changing this at all
<ESphynx> i was wrapping way before, but someone complained it was too short.
<ESphynx> (wrapping too short)
<ESphynx> "Those starting with a single space are part of a paragraph. Successive lines of this form will be word-wrapped when displayed. The leading space will usually be stripped off. The line must contain at least one non-whitespace character."
<ESphynx> If the lines will be word wrapped, why does lintian still complain that they are short/long ?
<ESphynx> A full stop -- that is a period eh?
<ESphynx> wrap-and-sort does nothing with either the long lines, or the shortly wrapped lines
<ESphynx> unless my wrap-and-sort is too old
<micahg> ESphynx: I checked the man page, it doesn't say it does
<ESphynx> ah :| guess one is just under that impression :P
<ESphynx> Hey so say I want to target unstable instead of experimental , I just update the most recent entry in my changelog?
<ESphynx> And for Ubuntu, if I want this to be an SRU, should I write raring or quantal in the new changelog entry?
<ESphynx> or should the whole changelog say raring / unstable?
<micahg> ESphynx: you can sync from unstable/experimental to raring
<ScottK> ESphynx: It has to be fixed in raring before it can be an SRU.
<ESphynx> ScottK: right... but I'm still keeping an ubuntu changelog for my Launchpad PPA
<ESphynx> but in the Debian changelog, the last entry can say unstable, and the previous one experimental?
<ScottK> Yes.
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning =)
<ESphynx> dholbach: where in the world are you? I always get your good morning wishes when when I'm staying up way too late =(
<ESphynx> build issues tend to do that =(
<dholbach> ESphynx, Berlin, Germany
<ESphynx> ah =) I'm in canada
<astraljava> It's usually worrying enough if you're still up when pitti hails his morning wishes. If you're _still_ up when dholbach does, you know you're bad. :)
<dholbach> ok, I've got to start earlier in the morning, best with pitti - to make people feel a bit less bad
<astraljava> Well, most people need to snooze the alarm in the mornings, too, so I guess it might work when going to bed as well. :)
<ESphynx> what would be the best way to install stuff ensuring directories 777 permissions is preserved? I want to copy my samples directory and the user needs writing permission in there...
<cjwatson> that's a fairly explicit policy violation; my recommendation would be to find some other way to solve the problem
<cjwatson> e.g. have the user take their own copy
<ESphynx> cjwatson is it? only on directories though :|
<ESphynx> it's just annoying if the user open up a sample and it doesn't build because the makefile can't be generated...
<cjwatson> It's a policy violation because it means that on a multi-user system the contents of that directory are completely untrustable
<cjwatson> Every other package I can think of like this documents that the user needs to take their own copy in order to play with it
<cjwatson> I recommend doing the same
<ESphynx> hmm
<ESphynx> well I'll keep this for my make install
<ESphynx> but I'll consider doing something different if DEB_PKG is defined
<ESphynx> though I don't know how I could inform the user :S
<cjwatson> put a README in the same directory?
<ESphynx> yeah most uers don't read README :P
<cjwatson> tough
<ESphynx> first thing I should is improve on that error
<cjwatson> I certainly consider anything in the Ubuntu archive that ships mode 777 directories to be critically buggy, although it's not something we scan for
<ESphynx> right now it's really bad
<ESphynx> OK I'll keep note of that :P
<ESphynx> Is that something I should fix right now? even though it's 4:44 AM and i've been trying to get this package update ready the whole day? =)
<cjwatson> It must be fixed before it can go into the Ubuntu archive, although surely dh_fixperms overrides the permissions to something sane anyway
<ESphynx> lintian doesn't warn about it , btw
<ESphynx> it's already in the Ubuntu archive...
<cjwatson> package name?
<ESphynx> is that gonna get me an auto-deletion
<ESphynx> :P
<ESphynx> if it's really considered critical, I'll fix it for this package i'm building today
<cjwatson> if this is ecere-samples, I'm not seeing any mode 777 directories in the version in the archive
<ESphynx> It is ecere-samples :P
<cjwatson> then there is no bug right now as far as I can see; the samples directories aren't world-writable
<cjwatson> which would also explain why lintian isn't saying anything
<ESphynx> ok... in fact i had other dirs which I did not mean to be world-writable world-writable, and samples were not... but the pkg install might be overriding that
<cjwatson> as I say, dh_fixperms generally overrides non-policy-compliant permissions
<ESphynx> right.
<bdrung> dholbach: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring-stats/ seems to be not updated for the last few weeks
<dholbach> yes, I noticed
<dholbach> it's on my list
<bdrung> okay
<bdrung> dholbach: thanks for writing the sponsors queue alert
<dholbach> anytime
 * dholbach goes and schedules the next month of pilots
 * bdrung made sure that there are no open sync requests
<Laney> dholbach: are you able to set reminders when you schedule pilots?
<Laney> I just found out I missed mine yesterday :(
<Laney> a reminder that morning would have been cool beans
 * Laney will do it this afternoon instead
<dholbach> Laney, it depends on how you set up google cal I think
<dholbach> the script I use sets up a reminder
<Laney> it had a 1 day one, which I assume was done by you
<Laney> but that's long enough that I forgot :(
<Laney> I should have moved it to a specific part of the day - will do that in future
<dholbach> the 1-day reminder is done by a script
<roaksoax>  /win 3
<Quintasan> bdrung: nudge to sign my key
<bobweaver> Hello there awesome motu people :) I have a simple question about packaging plugin's for say gimp. (making example brb)
<bobweaver> say I want to make this into a package   http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/gimp-qmlexporter/blobs/master/qmlexporter.py
<bobweaver> that has to go to ~/.gimp/plugins/   right but that is under the users home dir is that not allowed in debian policy ?
<bobweaver> how to get around something like that ?
<jtaylor> when something needs to go into home it should do so at runtime
<jtaylor> e.g. on first run
<bobweaver> jtaylor,  sorry I am not sure that I understand. Are you saying that I should write some sorta something that says, if 1st time launched do X ? If so how to do something like that ? thanks
<tumbleweed> why not just install it into /usr/lib/gimp/2.0/plug-ins ? does it *have* to be in the user's plugin dir?
<tumbleweed> (that's just a guess as to the corret plugin dir, but I'm assuming there's a system wide one for python plugins...)
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  IDNK but what I do know is that you are awesome and that should work I would think
<bobweaver> that is what I also thought but I was un-sure if there was and also pondering the idea of having to put something in $HOME
<bobweaver> I love this Channel !!!!
<tumbleweed> heh
<bobweaver> Thanks jtaylor  and tumbleweed
<bobweaver> Hello its me again :)  would someone be so kind to look over this setup.py  (it is my 1st one ever) I am not sure what the last line does but it was in a example so I left it there thanks again :)
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1340531/
<jtaylor> is the license correct?
<bobweaver> yeah it is gpl3
<bobweaver> or at least that is what header says in script
<jtaylor> shouldn#t it be GPLv3+ then?
<bobweaver> had to dig to find email
<bobweaver> Not sure jtaylor  this is 1st time with setup.py I was using example from .....
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/unity-scope-mythtv/view/head:/setup.py
<jtaylor> hm pypi has 3415 gpls and only 8 GPLv2+ so probably nobody cars
<jtaylor> I'd still stick with the correct string
<bobweaver> I would love too
<bobweaver> that is why I am here is to ask these questions I really want to learn 'why' things are done and best practice
<bobweaver> I am changing that line
<bobweaver> This is what I have atp
<bobweaver> license="GNU General Public License 3(GPLv3)",
<bobweaver> Looking good ?
<jtaylor> is it v3 or v3+?
<bobweaver> Not sure good question
<jtaylor> v3 only is not good
<jtaylor> if there is an incompatible v4 you'Re screwed
<bobweaver> wowie wowie that would not be good
<bobweaver> thanks again jtaylor  :)
<bobweaver> watch file goes as such
<bobweaver> version=1
<bobweaver> https://github.com/qt-labs/gimp-qmlexporter/tags .*/tarball/(\d[\d\.]+)
<bobweaver> any good ?
<bobweaver> my 1st watch file ^^^
<bobweaver> oh i see error
<bobweaver> Yes it all worked !  Now how do I get this into debian so that it can make its way to Ubuntu ?
<mfisch> Laney: I responded to your comment on the tiff3 update
<bdrung> Quintasan: signing the keys is on my todo list. :) have you signed mine? *hint, hint*
<ajmitch> so impatient :)
<alo21> hi
<alo21> can someone says me if davfs2 could be dropped?
<alo21> debian: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/davfs2/current/changelog LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/davfs2/1.4.6-1ubuntu3
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-08
<ESphynx> Will this DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH stuff work at all in Natty/Oneiric?
<ESphynx> Or is it Precise+ ?
 * skaet_ working on merging capistrano
<ESphynx> How can I install dh-exec 0.3 on Precise? :|
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> 'morning guys
<jetsaredim> would it be reasonable to get bug 205509 fixed in quantal?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 205509 in transcode (Ubuntu) "tcdecode(dvdrip) fails to work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205509
<jetsaredim> I'm pretty sure I already have the fix that's needed to resolve that bug but I'm not sure the process to go about getting it pushed out to the quantal release
<dholbach> I'm a bit busy - can somebody help jetsaredim with this? (it seems to be a fix which is raring already)
<jetsaredim> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> anytime
<jetsaredim> anyone alive in here?
<Adri2000> jetsaredim: do you know the SRU process?
<Adri2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates that's the way to go to include a fix in quantal
<bobweaver> Can someone help me with a watch file plz
<bobweaver> http://mentors.debian.net/package/gimp-qmlexporter
<bobweaver> I think that the tar comes from http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/gimp-qmlexporter/trees/master   But I do not know how to make debian/ watch   I tryed to make like
<bobweaver> version=3
<bobweaver>  <link_to_tar>   but that did not wolrk :?
<bobweaver> I also tried to play with a bunch of regex to make work but
<bobweaver> gitorious renders tar links on request
<bobweaver> I will also ask on debian mentors thanks for your time
<mitya57> jetsaredim, I've commented on that bug
<jetsaredim> mitya57: yes - thanks - how can I push for this to get pushed to quantal?
<mitya57> jetsaredim, please fill the fields I've added to the description
<jetsaredim> mitya57: seems you already filled them in?
<mitya57> jetsaredim, no, that's just a description of what should be there
<jetsaredim> mitya57: then I guess I'm missing what you want me to fill in
<mitya57> jetsaredim, you should edit the description of bug 205509 as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 205509 in transcode (Ubuntu) "tcdecode(dvdrip) fails to work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205509
<mitya57> (that's not something _I_ want, the package won't be accepted until it's done)
<jetsaredim> mitya57: ok - i just didn't get what you were asking me to do - i'm happy to do it
<mitya57> for example, replace my "# Detailed instructions how to reproduce the bug." with actual instructions
<mitya57> and so on for each of 4 fields
<jetsaredim> yes i see that now
<jetsaredim> thanks
<jtaylor> can a u-dev-tools dev remove the ipython suggest from -dev-tools its not needed since lp-shell was moved
<jtaylor> (if you do it directly its probably faster than when I make  pull request ._.
<Laney> you can do it directly
<jtaylor> I have push rights as motu?
<Laney> as ubuntu-dev
<jtaylor> nice, to lptools too?
<jtaylor> there the suggest is missing
<Laney> probably not that
<jtaylor> is lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-dev-tools the correct branch?
<jtaylor> probably lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-09
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<trijntje> Hi all, what is the proper way to get a package into ubuntu? (Ubuntu specific, not for debian)
<xnox> trijntje: what is it?
<trijntje> xnox: its a package with localised default settings, used to build localised iso's for dutch
<trijntje> a similar package for italian is already present: ubuntu-defaults-it
<xnox> trijntje: push a branch to launchpad. file a bug against ubuntu asking for sponsorship.
<xnox> subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<trijntje> xnox: Ill do that, thanks!
<trijntje> xnox: how can I file a bug against ubuntu? If I click on 'report a bug' for the ubuntu project it forwards me to a wiki page
<Laney> read the page, it tells you how
<TheLordOfTime> trijntje:  ubuntu-bug [package]
<TheLordOfTime> and yes, read that page.
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: there is no package yet
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug  then
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: if you are not in bugcontrol that will redirect you to the wiki page ;-)
<trijntje> TheLordOfTime: if I click that link I end up on the wiki
<TheLordOfTime> xnox:  ah.
<TheLordOfTime> xnox:  forgot about that one :P
<TheLordOfTime> trijntje:  so read the wiki then
<TheLordOfTime> it explains how to file a bug
<trijntje> it does a pretty bad job of explaining how to file a bug requesting packaging of a program
<TheLordOfTime> those're special bugs arent they?
<trijntje> I've been able to file a bug against ubuntu itself using this link, but it's not exactly easy to find
<trijntje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
<Laney> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing_bugs_at_Launchpad.net links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Requesting%20a%20new%20package%20for%20Ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> did you try using the link they give?
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?no-redirect&field.tag=needs-packaging
<TheLordOfTime> well, different link, but..
<TheLordOfTime> the link i just gave comes from the page that Laney mentioned: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<trijntje> Thanks, I just got anoyed because I kept getting redirected to the wiki while I just wanted to file a bug against ubuntu itself
<TheLordOfTime> you should read what it says on the wiki then
<Laney> never mind, it's done now
 * TheLordOfTime returns to fixing his webserver
<trijntje> TheLordOfTime: or you could just have pointed me in the right direction. I asked a simple question, you repeatedly provided a wrong answer, and keep telling me to read a 15+ page wiki page to find 1 link, which links to another page, which has the answer i'm looking for
<bobweaver> Hello I want to make diff for bug that I just filed
<bobweaver> !bug 1077115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077115 in reportbug (Ubuntu) "reportbug is missing dependency for gtk interface " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077115
<bobweaver> what is diff command to get difference in package. or should I just re-package the hole thing ?
<bobweaver> whole *
<bobweaver> really weired debian/control already has the dependency's of  python-vte, python-gtkspell  in it but when using it I had to install
<bobweaver> becuase they where not installed Oo
<JontheEchidna> that's because they are in the "Suggests" field, not the "Depends" field
<bobweaver> ahh correct I should move to Depends: ?
<micahg> bobweaver: no
<bobweaver> and use wrap-and-sort as it is hard to read as shown above
<micahg> reportbug is mainly used as a command line tool
<bobweaver> ahh I see maybe make a metapackage called reportbug-gtk ?
<bobweaver> if there is not one that is
<micahg> bobweaver: that's a good idea, maybe discuss with the Debian maintainer
<bobweaver> will do micahg
<bobweaver> thanks all =)
<bobweaver> or change code to use session installer to install the dependency's of the gtk part I am off to find maintainer thanks again
<c_korn> hello, can someone please explain to me what the problem is here when packaging "the powder toy"? I never saw such an error before: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0VnBac3Z (building in a schroot of precise/i386)
<bobweaver> Is that a naming error ?  for lib ?
<micahg> no, they're both symlinks to the actual binary
<bobweaver> name of app is just powder ? I can not find anything called "the powder toy"
<c_korn> it is precompiled. you can find it here: http://powdertoy.co.uk/
<bobweaver> It compiled and is there running for me
<bobweaver> are you sure that you added build-deps ?
<bobweaver> from http://powdertoy.co.uk/Wiki/W/Compiling_for_Linux.html
<obounaim> trying to build a source package for virtualbox using "bzr bd -- -S" fails "dpkg-source: info: building virtualbox using existing ./virtualbox_4.1.18-dfsg.orig.tar.xz
<obounaim> unxz: (stdin): Unexpected end of input"
<obounaim> any ideas?
<micahg> bad file?
<c_korn> bobweaver: I used the compiled binary. maybe I should compile it from source
<bobweaver> c_korn,  are you trying to build package ? If so then Yeah I would say that you are going to have to install from source. (But I am new at all this get others options =) )
<mfisch> Laney: I updated bug #1065637, I fixed the distroseries and deleted the patches
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065637 in tiff3 (Ubuntu) "please Update to 3.9.7 in R" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065637
<cjwatson> mfisch: you know that we already switched to 4.x for almost everything in 12.10, right?  seems odd to be putting much work into tiff3 at this point
<mfisch> cjwatson: no, I didn't know that, if that's the case, then we can ignore tiff3
<cjwatson> it's still there for the odd legacy thing, but probably best to do most ongoing maintenance if any in Debian
<cjwatson> I think at least some of the cves were backported
<micahg> there are still 2 handfuls of reverse dependencies on tiff3
<micahg> or maybe 3 even
<cjwatson> yeah, those were accidentally missed
<cjwatson> only two packages red on the transition tracker though
<cjwatson> I think there might have been one reverted due to regression, I forget
<mfisch> the new upstream fixes incorporates 3 of the CVEs
<mfisch> only 1 left ATM
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-10
<TheLordOfTime> is there any way to force-ignore this error?  since the package is heading to a PPA.  dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address  (and i'm not supposed to change the Maintainer: field)
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: I think persia is giving you pretty good advice in #ubuntu-packaging
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  which is going against what's already in palce on my system
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  i've had DEBEMAIL set for my @ubuntu.com email for the past 6 months.  otherwise, the system can't ID what signing key to use.
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: there are only two solutions, and he's suggested both of them
<Laney> mfisch: merci
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: I set DEBSIGN_KEYID to an explicit key ID in ~/.devscripts, rather than having debsign work it out from my e-mail address.  You could do that.
<obounaim> Hello
<TheLordOfTime> true, i'll have to set that next time i stab my .devscripts
<TheLordOfTime> i'll do that later this evening, after i replace a few componetns in my system.
<obounaim> Why http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/raring/ does not show http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%23619677
<jtaylor> probably because its tagged kfreebsd
<obounaim> jtaylor, thanks.
<obounaim> To upload a source package to a ppa, does it have to be signed, I want to test if a debian source package builds correctly on amd64?
<TheLordOfTime> obounaim, you still need to sign the package with a GPG key that is on launchpad.
<TheLordOfTime> for it to work with PPAs.
<TheLordOfTime> (even if the architecture is amd64 only)
<obounaim> How can I do that without modifying  the changelog
<TheLordOfTime> out of curiosity, what "package" are you test-building?
<obounaim> gfarm2fs
<TheLordOfTime> this for a bugfix or something?
<obounaim> I want to see if syncing the new version from Debian will fix an existing bug in Ubuntu #837317
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 837317 in gfarm2fs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gfarm2fs ftbfs in oneiric on all archs except i386" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837317
<obounaim> I have an i386 Ubuntu on my machine so I want to use a ppa to see if it builds correctly on amd64
 * TheLordOfTime checks something
<TheLordOfTime> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/gfarm2fs/+builds
<TheLordOfTime> looks like somewhere along the line it built for all archs
<TheLordOfTime> any specific Ubuntu verison you're looking at?
<TheLordOfTime> (also, that bug you posted, its "Fix Released" for Oneiric)
<TheLordOfTime> s/posted/referenced/
<obounaim> I agree the current version in Ubuntu builds on all version, What I am trying to do is to see if the new version of the package in Debian fixes the  #837317 bug
<obounaim> in order to drop Ubuntu changes and sync the new version of Debian, or if the build fails do a merge
<TheLordOfTime> ah.
<TheLordOfTime> well i've done test-ports myself of $various_debian_packages, and modified thechangelogs for one of my testing PPAs.
<TheLordOfTime> working on php5.4.x ports from Debian to Precise right now for a PPA of mine, same concept.
<TheLordOfTime> just create a changelog entry saying no-changes build-test from Debian or something.
<TheLordOfTime> unless the MOTUs say that's bad
<TheLordOfTime> or someone who's higher up the food chain than me :P
<obounaim> So there is now way to sign a source package without changing the changelog
<TheLordOfTime> that's not what i said?
<obounaim> sorry
<TheLordOfTime> actually i misinterpreted you
<TheLordOfTime> you might be able to reupload the debian source package, but... the PPAs might not accept it
<TheLordOfTime> if i remember right the PPA builders check the signature...
<obounaim> I tried "dput -u" but it didn't work
<TheLordOfTime> what error(s)?
<obounaim> I had no errors but the package didn't show up in the ppa
<tumbleweed> personally, my signing is untirely disconnected from building
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, doesn't the PPA processor check PGP key signatures on uploads?
<tumbleweed> I have DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-i -I -uc -us" so, it never signs when I build
<tumbleweed> I sign with debsign before uploading
 * TheLordOfTime reads the manpage for those commands.
<tumbleweed> (I build source packages at least 20x more often than I sign and upload them)
<TheLordOfTime> s/commands/arguments/
<tumbleweed> err I should have said "in my ~/.devscripts"
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, he's testing amd64 builds, not i386 which is his system's architecture.
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, same difference?  :P
<tumbleweed> and the -i -I are unrelated to signing
 * TheLordOfTime assumed it was in ~/.devscripts
<tumbleweed> to be clear, when I said bulid there, I meant build locally (debuld / dpkg-buildpackage)
<TheLordOfTime> also assumed.
<TheLordOfTime> having said this, i think what obounaim's goal is, is to use the PPAs to test whether amd64 builds in Ubuntu for the Debian version of the package they mentioned
<tumbleweed> obounaim: do you not have amd64-capable hardware?
<TheLordOfTime> but upload without signing it themselves or without makikng a changelog entry
<tumbleweed> using PPAs for test-building is fairly painful, because PPA builds can take a while...
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, for the record: <obounaim> I have an i386 Ubuntu on my machine so I want to use a ppa to see if it builds correctly on amd64
<TheLordOfTime> (scrollbacks, i know)
<TheLordOfTime> and i agree, amd64 builds are obscenely long wait times
<tumbleweed> how does one still get i386 hardware?
 * TheLordOfTime has run into this twice in three days
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed, some older netbooks >3 years old are i386 only
<tumbleweed> that's true
<obounaim> TheLordOfTime, That's true I don't have amd64-capable hardware.
<TheLordOfTime> and of course ancient machines.
<obounaim> I have amd64-capable hardware but I have a i386 of Ubuntu to be correct
<TheLordOfTime> well there's the problem.
<tumbleweed> you can install an amd64 kernel, and then you'll be able to have amd64 chroots
<TheLordOfTime> what tumbleweed said.
<obounaim> How can I do that?
<tumbleweed> hrm, Ubuntu dosen't have -amd64 kernels, so I assume you'd do it with multiarch
<obounaim> I have signed the .changes file with debsign and upload it to a ppa but it was rejected "Rejected:Unable to find distroseries: unstable:
<tumbleweed> PPAs don't build for Debian
<Laney> you can override the target suite at upload time
<Laney> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Using_packages_from_other_distributions
<bdrung> Quintasan_: poke
<bdrung> Quintasan_: now it's your turn to sign my key
<thedoctor> i have a question about a package i would like to see carry through
<thedoctor> i would like to see the browser "Opera" come to the universe
<thedoctor> is this a good endeavor?
<jtaylor> its closed source
<jtaylor> so not going to happen
<jtaylor> opera provides an own repository which works fine
<thedoctor> so how come other closed source software are on the universe?
<jtaylor> example?
<xnox> "Opera" can enter the extras repository or restricted, if Opera the vendor decides to distribute it there.
<jtaylor> for restricted you'd have to deal with canonical or?
<jtaylor> it could go into multiverse but I don't see the need
<xnox> Opera needs to allow re-distribution. It's illegal to take software and redistribute it, unless you have permission to do so (which there is a permission to do so)
<xnox> thedoctor: if you want Opera in Ubuntu, you need to ask/push Opera to do so.
<jtaylor> I'm an opera user myself
<jtaylor> I just use the repository opera themself provide
<jtaylor> never had issues
<xnox> jtaylor: no. restricted & multiverse are both component of Ubuntu. And both require permission to redistribute.
<xnox> jtaylor: "partner" repository is via canonical.
<thedoctor> Okay i was wondering why this hadnt happened yet,
<thedoctor> makes sense
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-11
<xnox> thedoctor: jtaylor: the way we deal with flash, is we have a "downloader" package which offers to accept adobe's conditions then downloads tarball and unpacks it.
<xnox> thedoctor: jtaylor: nothing is stopping you to write a wrapper script which does $ add-apt-repository http://opera.... and install that.
<xnox> package it and upload to ubuntu software centre..... =)
<thedoctor> thats a good idea!
<thedoctor> now im a little confused with the Ubuntu Pakaging
<thedoctor> what makes MOTU different from a regular Ubuntu Software Pakaging
<thedoctor> they just manage the universe?
<jtaylor> yes
<thedoctor> okay...
<jtaylor> universe is mostly pure debian imports
<jtaylor> motu takes care that the stuff works in ubuntu (to best effort)
<jtaylor> the package maintenance is in debian
<xnox> thedoctor: you mixing a few concepts here. Ubuntu Software Packaging ~= how to create source & binary packages that will work/be installable on ubuntu.
<xnox> thedoctor: the rest are teams that take responsibilities in doing such development work in various ubuntu archives and pockets of which we have many, each serving a different purpose.
<xnox> motu is one of those teams / social structure in Ubuntu.
<thedoctor> okay yeah
<thedoctor> so for instance if i were wanting to contribute to motu
<thedoctor> could i just start on their bugs page at launchpad and work at the packages listed?
<xnox> if you want to fix bugs in universe packages that's one thing you can do.
<xnox> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<xnox> doing merges from debian is also good for universe
<jtaylor> doing security uploads for universe is also an important thing
<xnox> fixing build failures in universe are also good http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#universe
<xnox> adding autopackage testsuites is also great
<thedoctor> oh wow this is great! i didnt really know where to start
<Laney> not sure about merges as a place to start
<thedoctor> Laney: yeah? whys that
<cjwatson> I'd tend to disrecommend merges as a place to start - sometimes they're easy, sometimes they're very difficult, hard to predict difficulty level in advance without experience, and in any case it's often just as hard to review somebody else's merges as to do it oneself
<cjwatson> Other things are probably more productive
<cjwatson> Plus we encourage the last uploader to do their merges, in general, as a point of responsibility
<thedoctor> okay ill start with bug page on launchpad then?
<cjwatson> And encouraging newcomers to do merges has led to a good deal of friction as people submitted merges for things where they clearly didn't know about quirks of maintenance of the packages in question
<cjwatson> It's just a troublesome area
<Laney> You'll become aware of some of the things you need to consider when performing merges as you do other things. They're a lot less painful when you have a more holistic view of what's going on, which you get through experience.
<Laney> I admit that I did find it a rather tempting list to work through when I was getting started, though
<Laney> thedoctor: It would be best to try and find a task based on your personal interests and goals
<thedoctor> well honestly I love bug squashing so ill start there
 * Laney has made way too much houmous again
<thedoctor> thanks for your help!
 * xnox thinks Laney should move closer to london and feed me occasionally. i shall promise to be a good cat in return.
 * Laney also ate too much while trying to get the mix right and now feels queasy
<Laney> xnox: you know, a cat is the thing I want most and am not allowed :(
<Laney> sometimes renting sucks
<xnox> Laney: live in landlord with existing pets or JFDI, as one of my friends did and kept a rabit in student accomodation with regular checks
<Laney> haha
<xnox> Laney: also "children before cats & dogs"
<Laney> I'll tell my girlfriend
<xnox> as my mom says to me. "Cause you need somebody to walk & feed them, then all you have to do is pet them"
<Laney> "you know that cat that we want? Well xnox says there's something we have to take care of first ..."
<xnox> I'm sure it will be a fun dinner conversation ;-)
<Laney> I consider it an incentive to save up for a house deposit
<xnox> i'm not saving for a house deposit.... i pay rent in london instead =/
<Laney> ha
<Laney> the glamorous east midlands calls you
<xnox> one day i might move back to cottingham... only if they get virgin cable.
<Laney> did I tell you that Rosie comes from very close to Cott?
<Laney> infact she went to Cottingham High School
<Laney> what's that great shop there? all sorts or something
<xnox> yeap, you did. =)))))
<Laney> good old east riding
<xnox> me is confused why right move is showing me 2M houses.
<xnox> two bed houses for 40k
<xnox> not bed.
<xnox> not bad.
<Laney> /not/ bad?!
<xnox> as in cheap, the property it self is soso.
<xnox> this one is nicer - 65k. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35965141.html?backListLink=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Fmap.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DOUTCODE%255E1126%26sortByPriceDescending%3Dfalse%26radius%3D1.0%23_includeSSTC%3Don%26auction%3Dfalse%26locationIdentifier%3DOUTCODE%255E1126%26maxPrice%3D70000%26previousSearchLocation%3DHU16%26radius%3D1.0%26searchLocation%3DHU16%26searchType%3DSALE%26sortByPriceDescending%3Dfalse%26useLocat
<xnox> ionIdentifier%3Dfalse%26box%3D-0.41130%2C-0.35328%2C53.76414%2C53.80242%26popupPropertyId%3D35965141%26mapType%3DMap&fromMap=true
<xnox> http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35965141.html
<xnox> nicer link ^
<Laney> huh, that's not bad
<xnox> and I know the area. It's very good and convenient. You'd still want a car but there are pleanty of medium size saintsburys and stuff around.
<Laney> I put my home postcode in and the first page is all properties > Â£1m
<xnox> "click sort by cheapest first"
 * xnox thinks it does > 1m for any post-code by default.
<xnox> also limit top price by something reasonable e.g. 300k and then options are at least tiny bit realistic.
<Laney> I put Alconbury in instead - bit more reasonable
<xnox> ack.
<xnox> I think if you are happy to move, there are plenty of corners in britain with good transport, nice area and cheap.
<Laney> not that I'd move back home
<xnox> I was thinking to put my stuff in storage & rent a place in Malta for next summer.
<xnox> + invite people over.
<xnox> hacking sprints on the beach?! =)
 * Laney packs his shorts
<xnox> my other plan is to move to SF
<xnox> you can see how I am undecided.
<Laney> so London, Hull, Malta, or San Francisco ...
<ScottK> xnox: Before you move to Malta ask Riddell what happens when you work for Canonical and think you can just move to a small island somewhere.
 * ScottK is actually in San Francisco right now.
<smartboyhw> Hi I am going to do the packaging for Bug 1077354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077354 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ubuntu-defaults-nl needs packaging" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077354
<micahg> Logan_: is there any specific reason you filed Bug #1077575 ?  those types of removals are semi-automatic when there's no diff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077575 in libmoosex-chainedaccessors-perl (Debian) "RM: libmoosex-chainedaccessors-perl -- ROM; superseded, no more rdeps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077575
<Logan_> micahg: Hmm, alright - I'm just surprised the removal from Ubuntu hasn't been done already, since it was removed from Debian back in February 2012.
<micahg> Logan_: orly? yeah, that might be a problem then
 * micahg takes another look
<micahg> Logan_: ok, I'll add it to the archive admin queue then, thanks
<Logan_> Alright, np.
<cjwatson> Logan_: usually if it hasn't been done yet it's because there were rdeps at the time.  in such cases, yes, fine to raise explicitly.
<Logan_> cjwatson: Alright, cool.
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<ESphynx> Hey guys, my ecere-sdk package won't install on a 64 bit Quantal... I've already produced a new package to address that issue and uploaded it to mentors.debian.net... Should I file an Ubuntu bug as well?
<iulian> If it doesn't install on Debian either, then it'd be good to get it in Debian first and then sync it from there.
<tumbleweed> if you want to SRU it to quantal, you'll need an Ubuntu bug
<tumbleweed> of course, it has to be fixed in raring first, so yes, do tha tthrough debian
<ESphynx> tumbleweed: yes it has to be fixed in raring as well, and I'm hoping for a Quantal SRU, and hopefully it will be synced from Debian, but was just wondering whether I should file a bug already or wait until it's in Debian =)
<tumbleweed> the ordering is unimportant
<ESphynx> Just thought it may help getting things moving :P
<tumbleweed> but if you file the bug before you upload to Debian, you can reference the bug in the changelog, so that's what I'd do
<tumbleweed> filing a bug won't make anything happen any faster
<ESphynx> well the package is waiting @ mentors.debian.net/package/ecere-sdk , I can't upload to Debian since i'm not a DD :P
<tumbleweed> have you asked your previous sponsor?
<ESphynx> xnox was busy this week :P
<ESphynx> He said maybe someone else might upload it before he does =)
<ESphynx> was just wondering whether having a bug for something that was broken in Ubuntu was the way to go :)
<tumbleweed> as I said, you'll need it at some point, so now is as good a time to file it, as any
<ESphynx> allright =)
<ESphynx> thanks
<xnox> busy & tired, first week back from uds. Now i am also shattered after winning at volleyball 3-0.
<xnox> =)
<ESphynx> xnox Oh nice :) congrats!!
<ESphynx> i've been making wine myself: http://ecere.com/tmp/labelv5.png
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-04
<shadeslayer> stgraber: btw can you set multiple jobs for sbuild?
<shadeslayer> ( and for the stuff you wrote )
<cjwatson> It has a -j option if that's what you mean
<cjwatson> Right there in its man page
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: thx
<Noskcaj> I the opinion of you guys, have i done enough (quality) work to apply for MOTU?
<tumbleweed> Noskcaj: we generally want to see 6 months of sustained contribution
<Noskcaj> ok, so not quite
<tumbleweed> but almost - it does look like you've done quite a lot
<tumbleweed> so start preparing an application, and ask your sponsors for endosement
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks for the help
<tumbleweed> Noskcaj: just looking at your uploads, what's up with qtiplot?
 * Noskcaj checks
<tumbleweed> it never built successfully
<Logan_> It looks like infinity copied that over from Debian, no?
<tumbleweed> Logan_: no, you did, sponsoring Noskcaj
<Logan_> Oh my b.
<Logan_> I knew it sounded familiar.
<tumbleweed> :)
<Logan_> http://bugs.debian.org/728642 <-- The FTBFS is reported in Debian. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.
<ubottu> Debian bug 728642 in src:qtiplot "qtiplot: FTBFS: icons/../src/plot2D/ImageWidget.h:73:7: error: 'virtual void ImageWidget::paintEvent(QPaintEvent*)' is private" [Serious,Open]
<tumbleweed> did neither of you test build it? :)
 * tumbleweed sees a few other merges of Noskcaj's that failed to build (but were trivially fixed)
<Noskcaj> For quite some time, i went off debian changelog only for syncs especially
<Logan_> I trusted Noskcaj, although he said in the bug that he only tested it on a Debian chroot.
<Logan_> I've been more careful with checking syncs locally. :P
<tumbleweed> it's generally a good idea to test (if you have the bandwith)
<Noskcaj> My internet is very, very bad. I've only just got the buildlog for qtiplot open
<tumbleweed> esp because you won't get email notification for syncs that fail to build
<Logan_> I honestly have no excuse with 80 down. So yeah, I take the blame.
<Logan_> But it should be fixed soon in Debian, hopefully.
<tumbleweed> yup. all's well that ends well
<Logan_> Especially since the FTBFS is now affecting sid as well.
<Logan_> Can anyone help me figure out why wmaker isn't going from proposed to release?
<Logan_> I rebuilt wdm, but that doesn't appear to be enough...
<Logan_> Oh nvm, I see.
<tumbleweed> Logan_: fookb?
<Logan_> Yep.
<Logan_> Thanks. :P
<Logan_> Weird how arm64 is the only one though.
<tumbleweed> arm64 is new, so it has more recent builds of many packages than other archs
<tumbleweed> which means they could have built against different libraries
<Logan_> ...true. Gotcha.
<tumbleweed> still, I don't know what the problem is, here
<Logan_> Wassup?
<ScottK> Also the current arm64 builders are unreliable.  Often just retrying a package solves a build failure.
<Unit193> Just a note, pepperflashplugin-nonfree won't work as designed if you sync it, but a patch such as http://paste.openstack.org/show/aeiBkrJYNAvZws9mDL39/ may help.
<tumbleweed> Logan_: I mean, I looked in an arm64 chroot, and it seemed perfectly installable
<Logan_> Yes, but building on arm64 brought in the wutil dependency. As did rebuilding on all archs. Needed to rebuild to finish the transition.
<tumbleweed> I don't see what the problem was, though
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-05
<Logan_> How would I go about joining ~ubuntu-sponsors?
<xnox> Logan_: ping dholbach
<mapreri> Hi! Is there someone who like to cheer (and upload) this very simple debdiff in trusty? bug #1242413
<ubottu> bug 1242413 in nautilus-dropbox (Ubuntu) "nautilus-dropbox needs a dependency on libappindicator1" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242413
<jtaylor> mapreri: normally one does not add libraries to depends like that
<jtaylor> hyperair: ^
<jtaylor> mapreri: I guess it needs a depend on python-appindicator instead
<mapreri> jtaylor: umh... nobody tells me so. Can you direct me to a reference stating so, please?
<jtaylor> libraries have a version attached which defines the binary compatiblity level
<jtaylor> when building packages a helper scans the files and adds the correct dependency automatically
<jtaylor> that this package did not get it means its not a compiled binary
<jtaylor> thus it should not directly load this library
<jtaylor> it probably does it over python-appindicator
<jtaylor> which has the right dependency
<mapreri> jtaylor: you right, python-appindicator depends on libappindicator1, witch fix the issue.
<mapreri> jtaylor: so, you suggest to change that to python-appindicator?
<jtaylor> yes, hyperair is the maintains the package, he is often in irc I'm sure he'll ahve a look
<jtaylor> I think he should get out of bed soon :)
<jtaylor> (UTC+7 +-1)
<mapreri> jtaylor: lol, I'm going to bed in less an hour ^^
<mapreri> (UTC+1 now)
<mapreri> jtaylor: in the meantime should I change the debdiff to reflect what you said, or wait for hyperair ?
<jtaylor> you can change it  case someone else goes over the bug
<mapreri> jtaylor: ok. I  take advantage of your presence... In that bug I would like to apply for an SRU, once someone upload the fix in trusty. Do you think there is a reasonable request (obviously I'll change the title and the description to reflect the SRU process)
<jtaylor> hm I guess it qualifies, as many users will py-appindicator installed via other packages so its already tested
<mapreri> jtaylor: ok, now the debdiffs should be fine. I think I'll go to bed now, I hope hyperair will take a look once it is rised.
<mapreri> Thanks for your support!
<jose1999> hola
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-06
<jose27900265> hola
<mati75> hello, I'm looking for sponsor to upload my Debian package with patch for Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> mati75: is the patch not relevant for Debian?
<mati75> tumbleweed: yes
<mati75> https://launchpad.net/~mati75/+archive/lubuntu/+sourcepub/3642755/+listing-archive-extra
<tumbleweed> ah, there is already a delta
<tumbleweed> !sponsorship | mati75
<ubottu> mati75: You can find out about the package sponsorship process here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess - For !UDS sponsorship see http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<tumbleweed> we should drop the UDS sponsorship bit...
<Laney> guh
<Laney> the queue is >> 100 now
<mati75> better way is when I get upload to Debian with this patch and wait for syns with ubuntu
<tumbleweed> it is easier when packages are in sync, yes
<Noskcaj> Has anyone got merges i can do?
<bennabiy> I need to add an ldm theme package to the ubuntu universe. How can I make this happen?
<ari-tczew> Noskcaj: look for comment @MoM such as "please take", "feel free to take"
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-07
<Legendario> Hi, I've made a simple package and uploaded to my ppa. I'd like some feedback. Can anyone help me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1173327
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1173327 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] fonts-oflb-gnutypewriter" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<cjwatson> Legendario: I suggest going through the Debian Fonts Team and getting it into Debian
<cjwatson> They're fairly active AFAIK
<Legendario> cjwatson, any useful url? I'm more used to the ubuntu community
<cjwatson> I guess https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts is a good place to start
<cjwatson> Links to the fonts packaging policy, the alioth project, etc.
<cjwatson> https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts/PackagingPolicy
<Legendario> cjwatson, hum... cool. I'll take a look at that
<Legendario> cjwatson, how is the policy for new packages? Do they strictly need to get into debian first or can they make the opposite way?
<cjwatson> Legendario: They don't *strictly*, but we strongly encourage them to go into Debian first.
<cjwatson> If they do then (a) that benefits more people and (b) they will automatically get into Ubuntu without any extra review being required.
<sreedevi> Hello, I am working on a minor bug in launchpad, I submitted a proposal to merge my branch to the main branch. This is pending for review, Could anyone please help me with this?
<mapreri> hypera1r: do you want to upload the fixed nautilus-dropbox package to saucy-proposed? (I subscribed the sponsors anyway)
<mitya57> Mirv: do you have anything against /me uploading a qtsensors merge with Debian (5.1.1-2ubuntu1)?
<mitya57> I need the renamed -dev package for my PyQt5 sync
<mitya57> oops, wrong channel
<hypera1r> mapreri: eh yeah sure
<Legendario> hi, since ubuntu recommends people to submit packages to debian, in order to get them into Ubuntu, is it possible to use a PPA to test the Debian builds?
<mitya57> Legendario: PPAs don't always match the Debian environment, it's better to use a tool like pbuilder for that
<Legendario> mitya57, do you know if I can mix ubuntu and debian control files like I do to make multiples packages for diferent dists. Eg. saucy, raring, etc.
<mitya57> Legendario: I don't understand the question. You of course can put whatever you want in the changelog, and control files are independent of the distro.
<Legendario> mitya57, I can upload a package with multiple control files in order to build it for multiple versions. Eg. control.saucy, control.raring, control. control.quantal
<Legendario> can I mix those with a control.unstable?
<mitya57> That sounds like a Launchpad-specific hack I didn't know of. But Launchpad doesn't support Debian at all â so no.
<Legendario> mitya57, ok. thanks! :-) That would be a great feature though since it's the recommended path to get a package into ubuntu
<mitya57> I think Launchpad will never support Debian. There is a much bigger chance that Debian creates its own PPA system.
<Legendario> mitya57, that would be also a great stuff. PPAs make packaging and distribution of software much easier. Is the ppa system part of the open source Launchpad app?
<mitya57> I think yes, but it's practically impossible to create a Launchpad instance different from launchpad.net..
<Legendario> mitya57, I don't believe so... I know a launchpad developer and she told me anyone can install your own instance  and that it's pretty much modular
<Legendario> and it seems that it could be a lot easier for debian to have it's own ppa system if ubuntu one is open sourced
<mitya57> Legendario: I googled and found https://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/ which looks like a Launchpad instance with Debian support
 * ogra_ wonders if you guys are aware of the #launchpad channel next door ;)
<Legendario> mitya57, where have you found it has debian support? I can't find it
<cjwatson> You *can* install your own instance, but it's a giant amount of work
<cjwatson> If you just want to build a few Debian packages, just use sbuild - way easier
<mitya57> $(whatCjwatsonSaid), and ignore the previous link â project looks dead
<cjwatson> launchpad-buildd is just a smart-ish wrapper around sbuild, after all (admittedly an old version, but that's a bug)
<cjwatson> the publication is harder work, but Debian already knows pretty well how to publish archives ;-)
<cjwatson> control.$release isn't a Launchpad-specific hack; it's some kind of hack specific to a particular package.
<cjwatson> And it's a bad idea since lots of things assume debian/control exists before any code in the package runs.
<cjwatson> You're better off trying to ensure that debian/control matches for all releases you care about, and if you can't do that then use a VCS to maintain separate branches.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-08
<Noskcaj10> Has anyone got a merge i can do that won't require me to know a programming language other than python?
<geser> Noskcaj10: you could look at some FTBFS of python packages in trusty if you want (and get the fix into Debian)
<Noskcaj10> good idea
<geser> I already spotted two FTBFS which look like missing build-dependencies (python-colander, python-nosehtmloutput)
<Noskcaj10> While not python, freecontact appears to have an issue with boost. Can someone hit rebuild, since that might fix it
<Noskcaj10> i think i've found a fix to python-scrypt, testing now
<Noskcaj10> geser, I think I've fixed python-scrypt at lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/python-scrypt/ftbfs , can you please check in a schroot since i don't have a trusty one yet (terrible internet).
<geser> Noskcaj10: I don't have a trusty pbuilder yet, so I can't test it but it looks sane
<Noskcaj10> It did build fine in my hardware. I'll submit the branch then delete if it turns out this isn;t enough
<jalcine> How do I go about proposing a patch to source packaging? (this case, libxcb)
<jpds> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/libxcb
<jpds> Do changes in bzr, push them to Launchpad and make a merge proposal.
<mitya57> jalcine: what jpds said, more information at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-sponsorship.html
<jalcine> thanks, I'll be back with one ;)
<jalcine> my proposal's #194495
<cjwatson> jalcine: new work should typically be targeted to the development series (currently trusty) first, not saucy
<jalcine> cjwatson: noted & updating
<cjwatson> (just drive-by, I'm doing something else right now ...)
<jalcine> thanks though
<spaghetti_coder> .
<spaghetti_coder> .
<s_faraday> hi guys
<s_faraday> trying to make a package got this error, how can I fix it http://paste.ubuntu.com/6382471/
<chilicuil> hi, I've been trying to upload a new package to debian for a month with no sucess, I was wondering if someone could give some feedback or upload them for me: http://mentors.debian.net/packages/uploader/chilicuil%40ubuntu.com I want them there because I've heard it's easier for ubuntu to sync
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, Have you sent RFSes for all of them? also, contacting the debian python team might be a good idea
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: I've send RFS's, although I've not contacted the python team, I'll look for them
<Noskcaj> also, fix the watchfile in praw and add a watchfile to the other two
<Noskcaj> Can someone please make tilem rebuild in -proposed? It might fix an ftbfs
<jtaylor_> done
<Noskcaj> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-09
<Noskcaj> Has anyone got a machine running i386, ppc or armhf? If so, can you please add some symbols to atlas-cpp? it will fix an ftbfs
<Noskcaj> Can someone please sponsor bug 1206739 ? Xubuntu would like the option to SRU it, but that first requires it to get fixed in trusty
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-10
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: from #ubuntu-devel: 08:20 < maxiaojun> http://packages.ubuntu.com should defaults to saucy now?
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: hmmmm, indeed. I wonder why it doesn't, which file I forgot to deploy/change this time.
<Rhonda> bleh, found it
<Rhonda> Hmm, don't have the remote configured on my laptop.  *goeschecking*
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: done
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: thanks
<jtaylor> nice libwx changed api/aabi with no transition :/
<jtaylor> in debian too
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-03
<quidnunc> I'm looking for emacs24.4. I have read that the package has been merged from debian. Where can merged packages be found?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-05
<dodobrain> hi all.. if a package does *not* contain a file it advertises as included, do i ask here or just in #ubuntu?
<dodobrain> and it is most definitely a packaging issue! as i have already checked the checksums as advertised on packages.ubuntu.com
<RAOF> dodobrain: How do you know the package does not contain the file you believe it includes?
<dodobrain> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/openjdk-7-jre-headless    and  the filelist  http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/amd64/openjdk-7-jre-headless/filelist  says  /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/ext/pulse-java.jar is included
<dodobrain> this file /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/ext/pulse-java.jar is *nowhere to be found on my system*
<dodobrain> and eclipse just shows loads of my projects as broken
<dodobrain> and i have verified that it does *not* include said file in the package file /var/cache/apt/archives/openjdk-7-jre-headless_7u71-2.5.3-0ubuntu0.14.04.1_amd64.deb
<dodobrain> RAOF, so can you verify what i have said as true by simply inspecting the downloaded deb file?
 * RAOF looks
<dodobrain> instead of /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/ext/pulse-java.jar  there is  /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/ext/icedtea-sound.jar
<dodobrain> and icedtea-sound.jar is present when it is *not* present in the filelist of the package
<dodobrain> how did this happen? i thought the filelist is generated from the actual package itself
<RAOF> So did I.
<dodobrain> so have you verified what i said?
<RAOF> Yeah. I can only see pulse-java.jar in openjdk-6-jre
<RAOF> Well, and libpulse-java, but I don't know if that's what you're after.
<dodobrain> what the heck is libpulse-java
 * dodobrain looks
<RAOF> The package that contains pulse-java.jar :)
<dodobrain> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=pulse-java.jar&mode=exactfilename&suite=trusty&arch=amd64
<dodobrain> shows no libpulse-java
<RAOF> Ah, right. Shiny and new in 14.10, it seems.
<dodobrain> right.. so you guys messed up the lts
<dodobrain> :'(
<teward> that's a bit harsh to say dodobrain
<dodobrain> it is, sadly
<teward> it's entirely possible for that library to have NOT been present when LTS was made/released
<dodobrain> cos for java devs, you just broke stuff
<teward> and then later introduced in Debian, for example
<dodobrain> teward, sorry, it was working fine!
<teward> dodobrain: don't blame MOTU for LTS being messed up, nor is it sane to state that the LTS is entirely broken as a result of your java development being impacted
<teward> nor is it sane to slap everyone with the blame either.
<RAOF> Ok.
<dodobrain> well, i didn;t say lts was broken.. just that 'stuff' was broken. also, in hindsight, it might have been a bit harsh. but stuff is definitely broken ;)
<RAOF> Looks like it changed between 7u51-2.4.6-1ubuntu4 and 7u71-2.5.3-0ubuntu0.14.04.1
<dodobrain> yes, i apt-get upgraded and hit the problem
<teward> RAOF: E:Regression ?
<RAOF> teward: Looks like it.
<dodobrain> given that icedtea-sound.jar got it. i would say it looks more like the utopic package simply got built for trusty as well
<dodobrain> s/it/in
<RAOF> Right, it was.
<dodobrain> thank you for your understanding.
<RAOF> Because we can't reasonably backport Java security fixes :/
<teward> yep, looks like a backport... and it looks like jdstrand may have been on the radar for that - perhaps this needs to be poked up to the sec team, because it's a security update that broke this?
<dodobrain> now how do we get the actual update going?
<dodobrain> well, 7u72 was released by oracle within hours of 7u71
<teward> keep in mind openjdk != oracle, just saying
<dodobrain> sure
<RAOF> dodobrain: Can you please add relevant details to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-7/+bug/1389493 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1389493 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Package dropped pulse-java.jar, breaking some development environments" [Undecided,New]
<RAOF> dodobrain: Particularly - I'm not sure what the actual symptom is here, nor how Eclipse or other projects would be impacted.
<dodobrain> essentially the projects within eclipse will show as broken because one of the files (pulse-java.jar) disappeared
<dodobrain> cmdline and other applications will not really be affected
<dodobrain> and eclipse will remain affected *until* user goes into preferences and deletes the existing JRE and adds back the same rooted at /usr/lib/jvm/openjdk-7-amd64  and then set it back as default
<dodobrain> it will not affect those who run eclipse for the very first time *after* getting this update
<RAOF> And âshow as brokenâ means that they won't build/work? Or is it just cosmetic?
<dodobrain> for everyone else who has run eclispe atleast once before this update, it will 'show' the projects as broken
<dodobrain> and if they don;t dig around enough or don;t know how to, they will always get reports that their project is broken
<dodobrain> 'show as broken' means when you try to run/launch the project executables or unit tests it will say project contains errors
<RAOF> Ok. That seems like it qualifies as sufficiently dire :(
<dodobrain> yup, i can imagine some people desperately trying to find out why their projects are broken, because eclipse doesn't tell you immediately that there is a problem in the jre and not the project itself
<dodobrain> and restarting eclipse a million times won;t fix it.
<dodobrain> well, it will if you change to a new workspace, but then you'll have to import back all your existing projects into this new workspace (which could trigger re-build of every imported project)
<dodobrain> RAOF, thanks for creating the bug report and adding in useful info.
<RAOF> Thanks for reporting it.
<ghorn_> hello
<ghorn_> i just adopted a debian package (coinor-ipopt) and made some patches, i would like to get them into ubuntu
<ghorn_> is it possible to get them into older releases like the two LTS releases?
<ghorn_> they close a number of outstanding ubuntu bugs
<sil2100> ghorn_: hello! First of all, thanks for working on these patches - what you need to do firsthand is fill in a bug targeting this source package on Launchpad with all the details
<sil2100> ghorn_: the general rule is that once the package gets accepted and released to the current development release, it can be considered for SRUing into the older stable releases if the bugs seem high-priority enough
<sil2100> ghorn_: if you fill in the bug, please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to it
<sil2100> ghorn_: this way we'll know that you want sponsoring of your package upload
<ghorn_> ok
<ghorn_> make a bug report "please sync from debian testing" ?
<ghorn_> or do you mean details on how I want to push this package into older releases?
<ghorn_> sil2100: thanks for answering btw
<sil2100> ghorn_: a sync request should be enough :) This makes it much easier for us to track then
<ghorn_> sil2100: ok thank you
<sil2100> yw!
<ghorn_> sil2100: sorry to waste your time, i now see that the package was automatically sync'd into vivid vervet a week ago
<ghorn_> sil2100: i will look into the SRU process
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-07
<k_alam> Hi, I need some help regarding packaging
<k_alam> Will 'debuild -S' work if I get the source from debian( like dget -x https://launchpad.net/debian/+archive/primary/+files/somepackage.dsc)? My goal is to upload it to ppa on Ubuntu but without the source.
<teward> is there a way to get rmadison to work and check against Debian?
<teward> it checks Ubuntu releases fine - wondering if it can go upwards to Debian or not
<tumbleweed> -u debian
<tumbleweed> it's in the manpage
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-08
<HFSPLUS> !ops | nooo waaa dont ban me and noo waaaa dont reject jesus christ
<HFSPLUS> !ops | nooo waaa dont ban me and noo waaaa dont reject jesus christ "i dont troll no more"
<teward> tumbleweed: couldn't find it in the manpage, thanks
<teward> tumbleweed: rmadison's help and manpage docs on 14.04 say it needs a full URL, didn't know it could parse 'debian' as the correct location :)
<tumbleweed> teward: see the "supported shorthands" bit of http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/en/man1/rmadison.1.html
<teward> doh, i fail at reading >.>
<teward> tumbleweed: thanks
<akshay_194> fww
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-09
<sethj> who would I talk to about/what would I do/etc about getting an app/package included in the LiveCD (and/or the default install)?
<sethj> I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but it seemed right..
<sney> is the package already in ubuntu?
<sethj> no
<sethj> sney, it isn't even written yet ;P
<sney> then you've got a long way to go, pal
<sney> which is not to say that it's impossible, but
<sethj> sney, Oh I realize that, but you see, before we even begin we need to decide if we want to use Gtk or Qt. Qt isn't included in the liveCD (for Python anyway)
<sney> I'm from the debian side so I'm not super familiar with the ubuntu process, but I would guess it goes something like make software -> package & publish to a PPA -> come back to #ubuntu-motu and ask for it to be included in the archive -> beg $metapackage maintainers to have it included with some default package set
<sethj> sney, thanks, that is helpful. I was getting conflicting information so I wanted to ask. One person told me getting included wasn't too hard, you just need to make a case. Another person told me it was almost impossible.
<sney> if your goal is to be distributed with the ubuntu cd, then you are probably better off not depending on something else that isn't yet distributed
<sethj> exactly.
<sney> your software also has to be useful. space is limited on installer/live isos, and gui stuff just keeps getting bigger
<sney> eventually, the CD-size iso will probably be abandoned altogether, but installer teams still prefer to keep things trim for various reasons
<sethj> sney, if you're curious, we're building this: http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/5738/ask-ubuntu-troubleshooter-defining-a-tool-that-new-users-will-use
<sethj> sney, do they keep a special ISO for CDs? I know since Ubuntu 13.04 the main ISO was bigger than a CD.
<sney> hmm, neat
<sney> good question, like I said I'm from debian so I'm not deeply familiar with ubuntu's practices. I guess they abandoned that size already :P
<sney> debian still has some cd-size installers and live images
<sney> question:
<sney> how would you feel about taking the ubuntu branding off and making this a more broad troubleshooting tool? we have a lot of similar questions in debian support resources, with the same hurdle of having to teach basic troubleshooting to every user...
<sney> if this thing collects the relevant information and throws it on a pastebin based on a couple clicks, that would really streamline things, heh
<sney> plus, software that's in the debian archive gets automatically pushed to ubuntu, and you can customize them for each distro with separate patch sets
<sethj> sney, actually that was what we were planning to do. Call it something more generic and see if we can get it in Debian.
<sethj> since, like you said, it would be useful to many people.
<sney> then you're in the wrong channel! #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net is where you want to be
<sethj> yep, when I need a sponsor, but we're not quite there yet ;P
<sney> well, indeed
<sney> what's your approximate roadmap? is that on the stackexchange page?
<sethj> Right now we just needed to know about getting it on the Ubuntu LiveCD to help decide on frameworks. We'll probably end up with Gtk.
<sney> I would suggest gtk certainly
<sney> debian's default DE might be gnome one day or xfce the next but gtk is still common between them
<sney> mint also uses gtk for their cinnamon DE
<sney> mate is gtk...
<sney> I'm a kde user and I use lots of gtk apps still. it's more universal.
<sethj> thanks for the tips, those are good points I hadn't considered.
<Unit193> Unity, LXDE (LXQt), and KDE are going Qt5, Xfce is GTK2, Gnome, MATE, and Cinnamon are GTK3.
<sney> unity is going qt? that's... surprising
<Unit193> Heh, started out Qt too. :P
<sney> I guess the other option is to separate the software into frontend/backend. do people still do that? anyway, then you could also have a curses/text interface, for noobs with servers
 * Unit193 likes ncurses...
<sney> if you want universal appeal that would really be the way to go
<sney> oh especially since a lot of the questions people ask are something along the lines of "help, it said 'no screens found'"
<sethj> yes, we are planning on a cli backend, a curses frontend and then either a Qt or GTK gui frontend.
<sethj> Unit193, LXDE is going Qt? I did not know that.
<sethj> Either way though, the python bindings for Qt aren't included in a default install so it seems like Gtk is our best bet.
<sney> indeed
<sethj> well thanks for the help sney and Unit193!
<sney> no prob, keep me informed
<Unit193> Heh, I didn't really help.  Have fun and good luck!
<Unit193> (Also, Qt people seem more open to installing GTK applications than GTK people with Qt.)
<sney> another point in favor of gtk
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-02
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-03
<mgolisch> after running dpkg-buildpackage it creates a packagename dir in project/debian are any files of that worth checking into version controll? like it now has debian/control and debian/packagename/DEBIAN/control
<mgolisch> currently i just change debian/* files to adapt to whatever changed: new files to include in the package and so on
<mgolisch> and i just build packages from a a new git checkout
<mgolisch> probably not the right channel to ask but i figured theres lots of package maintainers here
<mitya57> mgolisch, no, these files are autogenerated and shouldn't be added to version control. Run ./debian/rules clean before committing anything.
<mgolisch> mitya57: thx thats what i though
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-06
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-07
<Meerkat> Hi. I found a feature-adding patch/bug fix for rapidsvn that I verified still works. How do I get this addition into Ubuntu?
<Meerkat> is this the proper channel for this topic?
<Meerkat> Hello. I found a patch for RapidSVN that fixes a bug and I verified that it still works. I was told to go here in order to get the fix into Ubuntu. Is this the right place?
<mitya57> Meerkat, it's the right place, though there are not many people here on weekends.
<mitya57> Meerkat, please make sure your patch appears on the sponsor queue (see link in the topic), and if it's already there, then just wait until someone picks it up.
<Unit193> Sponsors queue is really long right now.
<Meerkat> is there any other way to do this that doesn't involve GPG keys? I can't make any GPG keys due to other bugs.
<mitya57> You don't need any GPG keys, just attach a debdiff to a bug, or submit a merge proposal against lp:ubuntu/packagename branch.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-09
<mjh75> hey
<mjh75> I am looking for a package rt4-extensions-timetracking (and others). I am not against doing the packaging but not sure how to go about it
<mjh75> I am looking for a package rt4-extensions-timetracking (and others). I am not against doing the packaging but not sure how to go about it
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-10
<Igor2> Hi all! I'm the lead developer of pcb-rnd. I've built .deb packages of it recently and I'm looking for help with getting pcb-rnd in Ubuntu
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-11
<rhodo747> linux-headers-4.4.0-38-generic Linux kernel headers for version 4.4.0 on 32 bit x86 SMP
<rhodo747> bonjour les " lumiÃ¨res "  ici un terrien qui rame avec les mises a jours ! un " cher "neveu laborieux m'as installÃ© " lubuntu
<rhodo747> au vus de lâancienne bÃ©cane qui me dÃ©panne .
<rhodo747> dsl pour les fautes de frappe !
<rhodo747> linux-headers-4.4.0-38-generic Linux kernel headers for version 4.4.0 on 32 bit x86 SMP
#ubuntu-motu 2018-11-05
<Unit193> micahg: Ping, re: dh-autoreconf
<Rhonda> Hmm, can't access jubany again  >.>
<Rhonda> Ah, my home IP changed yet again.  Gladly I gave them a jump host IP  \o/
<Rhonda> â¦ I'm puzzled by https://bugs.launchpad.net/pkg-website/+bug/1801518 - has anything changed in the archive layout maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1801518 in pkg-website "Search is broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Rhonda> meh
<Rhonda> No clue what causes the 500
<Unit193> I'm guessing it supports xz?
