#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-22
<ScottL_> i just got an email about hydrogen 0.9.4 being synced, how does this affect what is in lucid and the FF?
<ScottL_> is it still synced and in lucid then? do we need to ask for an exception?
<persia> No.
<persia> We filed the sync request before the freeze.
<persia> The archive admins have been terribly busy, and just got to it.
<persia> So it should now be in lucid
<persia> (check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hydrogen )
<persia> Ideally, the archive admins could keep up and it would have been synced before, but there's only so many of them, and they're only human, and *every* developer pushes way to much stuff in the marathon before FF.
<ScottL_> oh, if the request if before the FF then we're okay...that's cool!
<ScottL_> i just wasn't sure if there was another needed step to make sure it was in lucid
<ScottL_> and i completely understand that too much is happening and i bear some of that blame as i could have coordinated earlier with debian multimedia (which I will be cognizant in the future)
<ScottL_> thanks persia
<persia> No problem.  You're learning.  The first cycle one is involved in development is always confusing.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-23
 * abogani waves ~ "Cause you're everywhere to me and when I catch my breath it's you I breathe"
<ScottL> hi abogani
 * ScottL is getting ready to go to work :(
<ScottL> although I was recording some music this morning before the family woke up :)
<abogani> ScottL: Family?
<ScottL_> stochastic: i saw that you forwarded the testing email - should formalized testing (i.e. for the masses) not start until the QA tracker says a build is available?
<ScottL_> I ask because I was hoping to work on the community documentation for testing in the next two weeks and wanted to have a definitive statement about where and when to test ISOs
<stochastic> Testing should happen always, but get ramped up for the build releases
<stochastic> but since our testing base is so small right now, maybe we should concentrate on the release builds
<ScottL_> so we can mention that testing of daily builds can happen at anytime by anyone - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/
<ScottL_> but we stress that we should at least test the release build - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com./qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<ScottL_> does that sound reasonable?
<stochastic> yes, perfectly sane.
<abogani> For who is interested I have just placed updated -lowlatency and -rt kernels on my PPA: https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
<abogani> Bye! ~ I can see through you, See your true colors, Cause inside you're ugly, You're Ugly like me ~ Outside(Staind) ~ 
<stochastic> TheMuso, I just added zynadd plugins to the audio-plugin meta seeds, will that need a FFE request to be pushed or are our seed exempt from that?
<TheMuso> stochastic: no that should be fine to add them. Its just a package after all. Won't land for alpha 3 however.
<stochastic> yeah, that's fine, zynadd is still building in Launchpad anyways right now
<TheMuso> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-24
<stochastic> persia, are you around?
<persia> I am
<stochastic> sorry I didn't keep my window focused persia, but I was meaning to talk with you about the duties of release management
<persia> Oh, sure.
<persia> I'm not an expert, but I can certainly give you some pointers.
<persia> Sorry.  Hunting URLs.
<stochastic> well I'm new to the idea of a release manager's position to be honest, so you're suggestion that we need one is something I'd like to hear more about
<persia> So, release management consists of making sure that a given flavour is suited for release.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess talks about the final release process
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilestoneProcess talks about steps along the way
<persia> (The next milestone is Thursday)
<persia> The duties I was thinking about in the meeting are as follows:
<persia> 1) Track the status of the image builds (daily and milestone) and make sure that images are a) being built, and b) roughly correct in content
<persia> 2) idle in #ubuntu-release and take responsibility for completing or delegating any actions that belong to ubuntustudio
<persia> 3) Ensure that there is sufficient testing on the ISO tracker for each milestone release and that any discovered release-critical bugs are escalated appropriately.  This can be done directly, by leading a testing team, or by delegating to a testing team leader.
<persia> 4) Attend weekly release meetings, raise any issues of particular importance to ubuntustudio, and mention progress on ubuntustudio goals.
<persia> Related to 4) is escalating anything that needs studio developer attention
<persia> 5) Making sure the release notes are being generated and will be useful at release time
<stochastic> This sounds like more dedication than I'm willing to commit to of my volunteer time to be quite frank.  I can help with some of it, but not all.
<persia> Note that all of this is limited in that it's only tracking.
<persia> It's the team lead that's supposed to be driving stuff, with the release manager only making sure it's being done and reporting when it's not.
<persia> I understand entirely.
<persia> I think we'd benefit from having someone who did all of that, but right now I don't think any of it is being done.
<persia> Taking over some of the role would likely be of benefit, and I suspect if you took all of it, you could delegate some chunks to others.
<persia> For instance, I know ScottL was working on release notes.
<stochastic> Isn't #1 being done by the daily health check e-mails?
<stochastic> #3 I can likely be on top of
<stochastic> #2 I can certainly help with, but I may miss some stuff.
<stochastic> #4 is a bit too much dedication.  I likely won't be able to meet every week.
 * stochastic checks fridge to see when their meetings are
<persia> For #1, someone has to read them and complain when there's an issue.
<persia> Even partial coverage of #2 would be a benefit
<persia> I can understand #4: perhaps you could delegate to someone?  I can't always stay awake to make those meetings.  I don't know others' schedules.
<stochastic> #4 I can only catch the first half hour of the meetings before I need to leave for work every week.
<persia> Yeah, and we'd end up at the very end, so that doesn't work.
<persia> ScottL: What's your time like on Fridays?
<stochastic> he's sleeping right now
<persia> Right, but he'll catch it when he wakes.  He's good about reading backscroll.
<persia> I think he's the most westerly of us though, which makes him a good candidate for the meeting, since he seems to be able to IRC at work.
<stochastic> I am more westerly than he is (Vancouver), but I work at 5pm here and the meeting starts at 4pm.
<stochastic> maybe ScottL and I can work together to delegate these duties.
<stochastic> persia, were there any other points that needed to be tackled?
<persia> There's more to do, but if someone just starts coordinating those 5 points, it's a massive improvement in our chances of having a good release.
<persia> And I think a lot of the rest of the stuff really properly belongs to testers and developers.
<persia> While there's aspects of release management involved, it mostly comes down to making sure the testers and developers are feeling some pain if the work isn't getting done.
<stochastic> a big problem facing Ubuntu Studio is the fact that the testers, developers and release managers are kind of all the same limited group of people
<persia> Indeed :)
<persia> And by separating the roles we don't all end up duplicating the same work, and hopefully more can get done.
<ScottL> persia, stochastic:  i'd have to check the time for the #ubuntu-release meeting (I'll do that at work, I'll be there in thirty minutes)
<ScottL> it might be on a knife's edge, if it's 4pm for stochastic it might be right before I leave from work and that might be hard to do
<persia> It's something like 3-5 hours from now, except on Fridays.
<ScottL> persia, oh, well that puts it more or less right in the middle of my day which should be fine ;)
<ScottL> stochastic, and whatever you need me to do (re: delegate duties or whatever really) I will try my best to help
 * ScottL off to work
<persia> ScottL: It tends to last 60-90 minutes, but check the fridge
<persia> (and you'd only be skimming most of it)
<ScottL> abogani: Family = my wife and kids (I tend to get up early and they tend not to) - I say this because you asked something about it yesterday morning
<abogani> ScottL: How many kids?
<ScottL_> the #ubuntu-release meeting is 10am local time, so that shouldn't be a problem me thinks
<ScottL_> although I wish the fridge and google calendar had better intergration with UCT/GMT to local time :/ 
 * ckontros is trying out some new Kubuntu
 * jussi01 bites ckontros
 * ScottL_ laughs
<ScottL_> jussi01: any word on a renamed / dedicated Ubuntu Studio forum within Ubuntu Forums?
<jussi01> ScottL_: I havent even asked. My apologies, Ill get onto it tonight (been crazy with work and thesis)
<ScottL_> jussi01: don't rush, get to it when you can
<ScottL_> I'll just keep it in the back of my mind so it doesn't get forgotten
<jussi01> ScottL_: I just had a conversation with jdong and sent an email to the FC with you copied in. 
<jussi01> ScottL_: we should be sorted.
<ScottL_> jussi01: super sweet!  thanks
<abogani> jussi01: Jussi are you around?
 * stochastic bonks his head with the realization that the #ubuntu-release meetings that persia and ScottL were talking about are actually at 4pm GMT not local time, so they're at 8am for myself (a bit before I usually wake up)
<persia> UTC actually, so that when BST is in place the time doesn't change everywhere else
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-25
<troy_s> stochastic: Typical lazy bum rockstar.
<ScottL> hey troy_s, interesting post about adobe and I commented again (don't send me an ugly email again :P)
<ScottL> troy_s, just kidding, never got whatever email you sent before
<troy_s> ScottL: Oh... good.
<troy_s> ScottL: I actually replied to the comment so it probably got lost routing off of your blogger account or whatever.
<troy_s> ScottL: How are things with you?
<ScottL> doing well, how about you?
<troy_s> ScottL: I think the point is that they might have a pretty solid product if they focus on delivering a Linux based workstation like Inferno.
<troy_s> ScottL: Pretty good thanks.
<troy_s> Trying to figure out how to circumnavigate an ffmpeg bug.
<ScottL> isn't that what the Blender/Nuke thing is?  Linux based workstation?  geared for Hollywood type movies?
<troy_s> ScottL: Nuke runs on Linux. The overhead is very appealing to Hollywood.
<troy_s> ScottL: But it isn't a workstation.
<troy_s> ScottL: Flint / Flame / Inferno are custom full hardware-n-all solutions from Autodesk.
<troy_s> ScottL: And while they have a Windows version, the Linux edition is the standard reference.
<ScottL> oh, sorry, wasn't thinking about the hardware...i understand more now, you are saying something more turnkey 
<troy_s> ScottL: Very much so.
<troy_s> ScottL: That's where Adobe could likely deliver a pretty compelling product.
<ScottL> troy_s, buy it, take it home, turn it on, use it
<troy_s> ScottL: Yes.
<troy_s> ScottL: There are two components to most applications - the clients / design interfaces and the render nodes.
<ScottL> troy_s, no configuration or mucking about with settings (or even command line)
<troy_s> ScottL: Nuke has two components and one is cheaper (the render nodes)
<ScottL> troy_s, bloody hell, sounds right up Apple's alley
<troy_s> ScottL: Well it might do a couple of things - if they actually had developers working on it, you could likely see a performance gain.
<troy_s> ScottL: You eliminate the overhead of os licenses (not a huge deal as the number of Photoshop boxes are relatively limited compared to the render nodes on Linux stations)
<troy_s> ScottL: You eliminate upgrade costs for the OS.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> ScottL: You also get almost immediate access to better architecture as it comes out.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> ScottL: I would strongly suspect it would allow for some proprietary implementation packages for asset management etc. (like Burn)
<ScottL> troy_s, what is meant by 'asset management'?
<troy_s> ScottL: Well in any large project you have godawful numbers of assets - still images, titles, visual effects plates, etc.
<ScottL> and where can I find a website for Nuke, i'm finding a bunch of garbage links with google+blender+nuke
<troy_s> ScottL: If you have that sort of a project, you need a way to figure out how the hell to track them all etc. pull them in. blah blah.
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> foundry
<ScottL> troy_s, oh, okay like a photo manager (file manager) with metadata
<troy_s> ScottL: http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/
<troy_s> ScottL: Sort of but a little more uh... diverse.
<troy_s> ScottL: Imagine you have negative vaults of the single source frames for every single frame of your movie etc.
<ScottL> troy_s, i just didn't understand the paradigm to the management, but I do know I think
<troy_s> ScottL: You would need to know how complex projects roughly come together - you have your shooting then all of that footage comes home and is pushed to the vaults or digitized as necessary. It sits there as the 'negatives'.
<troy_s> ScottL: From that you create proxies (small crap quality versions with timecode etc) for your editors to use.
<troy_s> ScottL: And you also might provide some formats for your visual effects friends to get started on things.
<troy_s> ScottL: Cut it, lock the cut, visual effects goes bonkers while your sound designers go nuts and your musicians score.
<troy_s> ScottL: After all of the visual side of things happen, you have 1) sources - the thing we talked about 2) raw visual effects finals etc.
<troy_s> ScottL: You conform based on a text file - an EDL. That edl is uptaken by something like Smoke (again autodesk) and it recreates the cuts the editors / directors etc. specified in the EDL (in fact, that is the ONLY thing that is used from Final Cut or Avid - the text file with notes)
<troy_s> ScottL: From there, your asset management tool (Burn for example) goes out and fetches all the bits from the various mediums (tapes? hard disks? etc.) and Smoke compiles it all into one big huge polished sandwich.
<troy_s> ScottL: So the last step is where you have asset management, as well as throughout the project to deal with all of the various fingers of product.
<troy_s> ScottL: As you can imagine, knowing where stuff is is massive.
<troy_s> ScottL: Base nuke is cheap - only 3500$ :)
<troy_s> ScottL: http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/pkg_downloads.aspx?ui=cbc2593a-2c9f-4ef9-84be-c198b0171453
<troy_s> ScottL: You can try before you buy. ;)
<troy_s> ScottL: So the next time you hear some doofus talking about wishing for Final Cut Pro or some other digital content creation tool, you can slap em'. Nuke has won more Academy Awards for people than FCP. And all of it runs on Linux.
<troy_s> ScottL: You any good at shell scripting?
<ScottL> troy_s, I use the command line but I don't really shell script
<troy_s> ScottL: Were you checking out TheFoundry?
<troy_s> ScottL: That Iron Man youtube vis is pretty impressive. It sort of makes people go 'wow'.
<troy_s> ScottL: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFoundryChannel
<troy_s> ScottL: PYTHON!
<troy_s> ScottL: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFoundryChannel#p/c/65F3C937DC21FB5D/1/eucKBY6c8OE
<ScottL> troy_s, sorry, i'm back and forth with the kids, yes I was checking out the Foundry
<troy_s> ScottL: Shockingly, a good bit of what you can do in Nuke you can do in Blender.
<ScottL> i'll look at the videos in a bit though, son wants me to hold him on the couch, he's a little under the weather two year old :(
<troy_s> ScottL: Unfortunately, I'm about 70% through another project, but I need to now start assembly on this music video. 
<troy_s> ScottL: Go enjoy the kids... I'm off to snap a drive in.
<troy_s> Be good.
<persia> Anyone around?  Have time to test for Alpha3?
 * stochastic is awake
<persia> Do you have time to test to see if the current milestone candidates work?
<stochastic> I'm really about to go to bed, but I have burned the latest and plan on installing it very soon
<persia> Well, slangasek asked if anyone had time to test so we could release with Alpha 3.
<persia> (in #ubuntu-devel)
<persia> I'm not that worried about not releasing with the Alpha if we haven't tested, but if we had someone to test, it would be good.
<stochastic> I'll try to
<abogani> On real hardware?
 * persia will try to make some time to do interim testing this weekend to see if there are obvious bugs that need to be knocked out, but that's independent of the milestone release.
<persia> abogani: Ideally, but VM tests are accepted.
<ScottL> persia, i'll be deleting my test karmic partition today and installing the lucid alpha :)
<ScottL> and probably VM testing on my laptop as well
 * ScottL out to walk the dog
<persia> ScottL: OK.  I'll strongly encourage you to try installing the Alpha candidates from Tuesday (when they enter internal testing) rather than waiting for the Alpha release.  We need testers in order to get included, so we probably won't get a mention in the Alpha 3 release announcement (because nobody knows if they work).
<ScottL> I think I tried to download Tuesdays, but when I got home they were rebuilding it, therefore I downloaded yesterday and this is what I was planning on testing
<ScottL> s/Tuesdays/Tuesday's ISO
<persia> Ah.  You might want to grab again, just before testing (zync can make this less painful).
<ScottL> hi cory
<ckontros> yo
<ScottL> troy_s, i'm trying to read your article now (kids are home sick) so I hope later today to have something witty to say
<troy_s> ScottL: LOL
<troy_s> ScottL: More useless dribble.
<ScottL> troy_s, bah, you're more articulate than a lot of artsy people I know, they almost couldn't coherant sentence together if their life depended on it
<troy_s> ScottL: Either that or you are warped as hell and you just look at crinkled plastic as smooth.
<troy_s> ScottL: Relative world... remember? ;)
<troy_s> lol
<ScottL> of course in some ways, i'm jealous that they can operate on that plane (i'm a regimented, have to know what to expect kind of guy, almost paralyising for doing new things)
<ScottL> troy_s, I LOL'd at myself "they almost couldn't coherant sentence" - heh, that's ironic
<ScottL> man, if you can't point at yourself and laugh at that, then you don't have a sense of humor
<troy_s> ScottL: I used to play bass for Couldn't Coherant. We imploded though. Lead singer had a bad attitude.
<ScottL> troy_s, my last band (5 or 6 years ago) imploded as well, the singer thought he _was_ the band
<troy_s> ScottL: LOL. Was it Couldn't Coherant?
<troy_s> ScottL: (/me not a bander, but rather the guy that tries to occasionally make a band look like they think they look in their heads.)
<ScottL> we were 'undergod', some stupid name I came up with that I later realized so had a lot of other people
<ScottL> it was all disappointing to watch his head swell, he and I had known each other for years and could play 75 songs (easy) at the drop of a hat
<ScottL> of course we drank a lot in those days, so we had rough versions, but we could play a lot of songs though, good bar band in some ways, not so much in others
<ScottL> frustrating to see all the potential squandered by his ego :(    but, oh well
<ScottL> I went back to school and got my fantastic job now :)
<troy_s> ScottL: What is your current career?
<ScottL> troy_s, structural design, but I'm actually supervisor for the detailing department now
<troy_s> ScottL: Hrm... Design related?
<ScottL> persia, themuso: tested lucid install, went well but I've noticed some menu inaccuracies, should I file a bug or just report them here/mailing list?
<ScottL> troy_s, engineering type stuff, desigingin aluminum structures    my company:  http://www.conservatek.com/
<troy_s> ScottL: You a PEng?
<ScottL> troy_s, some of the pictures you see at the site is stuff that I've worked on, hell, a large percentage of the physical, paper literature they have has stuff that i've worked on
<ScottL> troy_s, no i'm not an engineer, licensed or by vocation, but I can do some of the calculations and have taken numerous engineering classes
<troy_s> ScottL: Some pretty cool architecture on that site. Too bad the site doesn't really do it justice.
<ScottL> troy_s, but structural design comes intuitively to me and I'm a hyper-organized person which helps me excel
<troy_s> ScottL: All those nice angles and lines jammed into a FLOSS grid. Lol.
<ScottL> troy_s, yeah, sigh, well..yeah - the website does suck and noticed by those who care and those who don't (i.e. the ones responsible for it) seem to think it's fine
<troy_s> ScottL: It is a shame. That kind of progressive architecture could really shine if you let it show.
<troy_s> ScottL: Very cool stuff.
<ScottL> troy_s, yeah, I like the challenging stuff, but I split my time now between management and doing actual work
<ScottL> troy_s, but the cool thing is i set up a server at home with wikipedia and showed the company what we could do by building a wiki about our design stuff
<ScottL> after six months they installed mysql and mediawiki on the company server (MS stuff)
<troy_s> ScottL: It just feels like it is an architectural thing by and large (or at least could likely sell the overall quality better by focusing on that stuff) and the emotional drama is nerfed with those teeny squares
<ScottL> troy_s, so I helped introduce some open source software into the corporate setting
<troy_s> ScottL: But I guess the name sort of says it all. 
<troy_s> lol
<ScottL> troy_s, well, we actually started out only covering petroleum tanks in refineries, we were "conserv"ing their product and the environment
<troy_s> ScottL: With high quality still of those 12 things in the portfolio you could create a pretty amazing looking site.
<ScottL> troy_s, then we got into the flat cover/wastewater and architectural stuff
<troy_s> ScottL: It looks more like 'conserva'tive design - which it most certainly isn't judging from those pretty spectacular geometrical works.
<ScottL> troy_s, you may laugh, but this website is actually an _improvement_ from what it used to be :(
<troy_s> ScottL: The Halsell conservatory is stunning.
<troy_s> ScottL: I don't really have an opinion on it other than the work itself seems like the site underharnesses it.
<troy_s> some pretty cool geoforms there.
<troy_s> ScottL: Did I show you the new mythbuntu site we are working on?
<ScottL> troy_s, a while back, but I bet it's improved since then    throw me the link again
<ScottL> troy_s, what we have are computer IT guys who happen to know how to kludge a website together, rather than a design team/firm
<troy_s> ScottL: Not really... it's extremely slow trudging actually. It has at least come to life at this point and is a real working copy from sketchwork. But there is so much to do and unfortunately our head html / css fellow has been having to take a break.
<troy_s> ScottL: It's not easy stuff. I personally hate sites. They drive me bonkers and are damn tough.
 * ScottL taking care of sick kids again
<abogani> kid*s* ? How many?
<abogani> ScottL: ^
<ScottL> abogani, I have three (two are sick today)
<abogani> Wow!
<abogani> That you have three child (not that two are sick)! :-)
 * abogani would want too
<TheMuso> ScottL: Probably file a bug and please update the iso tracker. slangasek asked me about astudio testing for alpha 3, which I thought the testing team were doing...
<ScottL> TheMuso, I was updating the iso tracker (several have reported already) and I'll add the bug
<TheMuso> ScottL: ah ok
<ScottL> TheMuso, usplash (or replacement), gdm and artwork (wallpaper) will all drop later after Alpha 3 right?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Gdm will stay, I need to fix up how we can theme for us. Usplash should already be gone.
<ScottL> TheMuso, well, yes, usplash is gone but we are left with default splash (or intro) it just says Ubuntu instead of Ubuntu Studio
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right we need to develope a plymouth theme.
<ScottL> TheMuso, I also noticed that the Ubuntu Studio logo for the main menu now has a small, gray triangle on the bottom left, is this intentional or a bug?
<TheMuso> ScottL: I don't know.
<ScottL> TheMuso, shall I file a bug?
<TheMuso> ScottL: plesae.e
<ScottL> abogani, why does three kids make you say, "Wow!" - just the quantity or do I seem too young to have them
<ScottL> TheMuso, It shall be done
<TheMuso> ScottL: thanks
<abogani> ScottL: I don't have idea how old are you. I love children and I hope to have two at least in near future.
<abogani> ScottL: Italians say "I figli so' piezz'e core"
<abogani> ScottL: Now I'm curious: How old are you? :-)
<ScottL> abogani, I'm 41, my eldest is 13, my youngest is 2
<ScottL> abogani, I was a single child but my wife, otoh, was the second youngest of five children
<abogani> :-)
<TheMuso> ScottL: I think it was decided that people didn't want the window selector, but I could be wrong. Trouble is, adding that in is somewhat difficult.
<TheMuso> Well not difficult, just time consuming
<ScottL> TheMuso, ah, okay
<ScottL> but the Lucid Alpha is looking really nice so far :)
<TheMuso> cool
<ScottL> i don't know if that is because it just rocks or because I have been more involved though ;/
<TheMuso> heh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-26
<rlameiro> stochastic: Is there some lucid ISO build to test?
<rlameiro> or still is unuseable or feauture less?
<jussi01> abogani: could you remind me where is your low latency kernel if users want to test?
<abogani> jussi01: Hi Jussi, On my https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa users could find the updated lowlatency and rt kernels.
<jussi01> abogani: and they are working on 9.10?
<abogani> jussi01: Yes but you should install it manually (and also take care of dependencies)
<abogani> For Lucid is sufficient add the PPA into apt as usual and go with apt-get.
<abogani> jussi01: Obviously every form of feedback is very welcomed. :-)
<ScottL> rlameiro, ISO build to test:   http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com./qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<ScottL> rlameiro, and the ISO is working beautifully, seems to be a rather nice release :)
<jussi01> abogani: so what is the status of the ll kernel atm? are we going to see it for lucid?
<abogani> jussi01: No changes for Lucid. It still ship 2.6.31 for RT as like Karmic.
<jussi01> oh really? thats not fun...
<abogani> jussi01: Sorry, no chance to do different.
<abogani> jussi01:  Do you have some minutes for correct my *document*? :)
<jussi01> abogani: document?
<abogani> jussi01: Yes I meant my CV.
<abogani> jussi01: It sin't not necessary but if you already have done it I like have the corrected version. :-)
<abogani> If not no problems it is not necessary.
<rlameiro> ScottL: thnks, what do I need to do to test it?
<ScottL> rlameiro, pick you architecture (i386 or amd64)
<rlameiro> yes
<rlameiro> I registered now in qa
<rlameiro> but for us, what should i look for ???
<ScottL> rlameiro, download the ISO, then burn it to disc and install either in VM or on a physical harddrive
<rlameiro> realtime intensive audio, 
<ScottL> rlameiro, testing everything - installations, menus, typos, apps that don't work
<rlameiro> ok
<ScottL> rlameiro, but, yes, we need to test the kernel as well  BUT lucid ships with -generic kernel and -lowlatency or -preempt is available in ubuntu studio ppa
<rlameiro> I have 50 gb in my  hdd to use
<rlameiro> but  i dont want to mess my other partitions
<rlameiro> it will be anther manual partition
<ScottL> rlameiro, I run twenty gigs,  I think, per partition and I dedicate one partition for testing
<rlameiro> ScottL: So i need to install the kernel from abogami
<ScottL> rlameiro, abogani will also have several flavors of kernels in his ppa
<ScottL> rlameiro, you're choice where to install kernel, but please document some testing -generic vs -whateveryouinstall
<ScottL> s/where/from where
<rlameiro> ScottL: I have 50 gigs unpartitoned, but for the 64 bits versios its missing testing in th resize, full disk and etc
<ScottL> rlameiro, I think you can consider full installation on a parition as "full disk"
<rlameiro> hummmm
 * ScottL is away from IRC for a few hours trying to get some recording done while alone at home :)
<rlameiro> I can wait one more week
<rlameiro> My second hdd is comming now
<rlameiro> so maybe i will wait and make all test on hdd
 * ckontros waves
<rlameiro> hi ckontros 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-27
<ScottL> eh, ardour released 2.8.7 before we could even officially release 2.8.6 (luckily it says that 2.8.7 is mostly addressing Mac bugs)
<crimsun> is it bug fixes, mostly?
<ScottL> that's what the news says, crimsun
<ScottL> "This is a bug fix release almost exclusively focused on OS X" from http://ardour.org/node/3327
<ScottL> the other thing I learned today is that my p4 recording box really, really struggles with JAMin   :(
<stochastic> re: ardour 2.8.7 - "Linux users who do not use the Czech translation have little reason to upgrade at this time."
 * persia likes upstreams who tell people there's no point upgrading: it makes it easier to keep up.
<ScottL> TheMuso, are you aware if any of the speech synthesis applications are jack aware?
<ScottL> i thought this could be used in some music type stuff
<ScottL> if you don't know, then that's groovy as well
<ScottL> http://www.mchawking.com/   <--- this got me thinking about it
<TheMuso> ScottL: No they are not.
<TheMuso> Except for espeak via portuaudio 19.
<TheMuso> portaudio even
 * TheMuso kicks mono in the balls. Big disk space hugging piece of shit that it is.
<TheMuso> Well not shit but certainly disk space using.
<ScottL> TheMuso, I thought also there might be a pulseaudio <-> JACK bridge
<ScottL> I thought I saw a pulseaudio jack-sink or something similar
<ScottL> oh, and LOL
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yes pulse can sit on jack
<TheMuso> the package you want is pulseaudio-module-jack
<ScottL> groovy, thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<persia> TheMuso: remember the channel is logged (although I'm inclined to agree with your sentiments)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-02-28
<ScottL> unfortunately, pulseaudio-module-jack is currently only in lucid and I still record on a hardy box (which is soon to change, of course)
<ScottL> but I can also use my lucid-test box to use esound though :)
<crimsun> ScottL: it's also in ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev
<crimsun> I uploaded lucid's current PA source there
<ScottL> doh...crimsum, i have to add you to the list of persia and themuso of people who rock! ;P
<ScottL> s/of persia and themuso/, which includes perisa and themuso,
<ScottL> well, espeak rocks harder than festival from my brief exposure
<ScottL> and espeak can write to .wav file which works poifectly (say it like snagglepuss)
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I remembered once I sent that message. :) was fighting mono packages not released from binary new at that point.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-21
<ailo_> paultag: I've wasted some hours today, but I finally finished the gui functionality at least. It's all pretty much done, except executing the actual commands. Memlock read/write is missing too.
<paultag> ailo_: that's fantastic news!
<paultag> ailo_: damn, you totally slam-dunked this project
<paultag> that's outstanding! :)
<ailo_> paultag: Well, it's not the most advanced project, but for me, with a deadline coming soon, it's a bit of a challenge. I could spend some time with a lot of details, just figuring out how it really works.
<paultag> ailo_: :)
<abogani> ailo_: Could you provide me the output of this command "ps -eo comm,class,rtprio,ni,pri", please?
<abogani> ailo_: Thanks!
<scott-work> abogani: when you are available i have some questions about the last commands you asked me to run for the -lowlatency kernel
<ailo_> abogani: http://paste.ubuntu.com/570037/
<abogani> scott-work_: please go ahead.
<abogani> ailo_: Thanks.
<abogani> Looks bit odd: "irq/19-0000:05: FF      75   - 115 "
<ailo_> abogani: Yes, I was wondering what that might be.
<abogani> ailo_: ps axl
<ailo_> abogani: http://paste.ubuntu.com/570048/
<abogani> Kernel thread?!?!
 * ailo_ is going to walk the dog. bb
<scott-work> wow, this webchat.freenode.net connection (in web browser) is flaky today and keeps dropping the connection :(
<scott-work> abogani:  for -lowlatency kernel (not the meta), you said to do like the -meta, which you said to move into the ubuntu-natty-meta-lowlatency/meta-source directory
<scott-work> but for the kernel i could not find a source directory
<scott-work> should i just be in the -lowlatency  direcotry
<scott-work> abogani: and when you say "mkdir ~/a_temporary_directory_wherever_you_want -p" and "cp -a debian* ~/a_temporary_directory_wherever_you_want"
<scott-work> this appears to be just copying the /debian folder to a new directory and then running debuild inside that directory
<scott-work> is that enough to actually run debuild ?
<persia> Yes
<scott-work_> argh, lost connection again, i wonder if freenode is still have DDoS attacks :?
<scott-work_> okay (is enough for debuild), i will do that tonight then abogani  :)
<abogani> persia is too fast for me :-)
<scott-work_> lol
<abogani> :-)
<ailo_> abogani: So, "05:01.0 Network controller: RaLink RT2561/RT61 rev B 802.11g" seems to be my pci network card.
<falktx> hey ailo_
<ailo_> Wireless
<ailo_> hey falktx
<falktx> ailo_: check it out - http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6301/scr006t.jpg
<falktx> ladspa is already working fine
<ailo_> falktx: Looks nice
<falktx> automation!!
<ailo_> falktx: Automation, how?
<falktx> ailo_: midi input
<ailo_> ok
<falktx> ailo_: also midi output, if plugin supports control output ports
<falktx> well, later
<falktx> cya
<ailo_> abogani: So, my wireless card has ri prio?
<ailo_> rt*
<persia> WIth the audio.conf hack, *everything* launched by the user ought get RT priority (if it can handle it, or just fails to drop it).
<abogani> Obviously a kernel thread isn't launched by user.
<abogani> ailo_: Please /proc/interrupts and modinfo on that module.
<ailo_> abogani: http://paste.ubuntu.com/570075/
<abogani> funny
<abogani> lsmod?
<ailo_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/570077/
<abogani> ailo_: It appears in /proc/interrupts but not in lsmod... mhhh
<abogani> ailo_: Ok could you paste the lspci -v output, please?
<ailo_> abogani: This should be the right modinfo, right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/570079/
<ailo_> abogani: lspci -v http://paste.ubuntu.com/570080/
<ailo_> abogani: Or, this one http://paste.ubuntu.com/570081/
<abogani> shudder
<ailo_> Sounds bad :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-22
<ScottL> holstein, and ailo , dickmacinnis emailed me about artwork and possibly being art director
<holstein> cool
<holstein> that would great right?
<holstein> has anyone seen the dreamlinux desktop?
<ScottL> he sent me some images of stuff he has been working on along with links to other works he's done
<ScottL> it seems to be a good move, but a few items probably need to be hashed out to make sure expectations are understood on both sides :)
<ScottL> for example, i don't think either side would be very happy if he only desired to make ubuntu studio look like dream linux
<ScottL> i was also going to blog about needed artists and an art director tomorrow, i'd like to see what kind of response i get
<ScottL> my last blog post got over 1,000 hits over three days
<holstein> yeah :)
 * ScottL shakes his head and is amazed at that
<holstein> i saw some link-backs
<ScottL> really?  like what?
<holstein> twitter?
<holstein> somewhere like that
<holstein> several
<ScottL> it's good though, my goal was to get onto planet ubuntu so ubuntu studio would get publicity...well, we seem to have it :P
<ScottL> but sometimes i just stand back and wonder about it though...i'm nothing special really, why do people click on it?
<holstein> yup
<holstein> i got #ubuntustudio
<holstein> in tweetdeck
<holstein> lots of non-english buzz actually
<holstein> not sure if its positive ;)
<ScottL> lol
<ScottL> i also mentioned to dick macinnis about pushing some of his changes "upstream" to us as persia suggested
<ScottL> i still want to email some of distros about it as well though
<ScottL> or someone else could as well ;)
<persia> ScottL: I'm a little confused about the combination of "dickmacinnis emailed me about artwork and possibly being art director" and i don't think either side would be very happy if he only desired to make ubuntu studio look like dream linux""
<persia> I may not have background, but presuming that dreamlinux is the expression of dickmacinnis' art, if you appointed him art director, I'm unsure why you would want to limit his expression.
<persia> I'd also hope he might do more, if there are useful patches as derivative, etc., but I'm just not sure that the idea of delegating authority over some area is compatible with restricting the application of that authority
<ScottL> persia, i think if he wanted to make ubuntu studio look like dream-linux in a wholesale manner that would not be optimal
<ScottL> and i think there should be some restrictions
<persia> Ah.  You critique the method, rather than the expression.  I'm wholeheartedly behind that :)
<persia> I just misunderstood.
<ScottL> we do have some branding for consideration and a pink, pretty pony theme probably wouldn't follow it :P
<holstein> i really like KXstudio
<holstein> i think it looks slick
<persia> OK.  I just get worried easily when I see potential conflicts, and strongly believe in delegation.
<holstein> id like to see dreamstudio
<holstein> and see where it is 'out of the box'
 * persia wonders if the KXStudio themes can be brought into Ubuntu as a selectable choice for users.
<holstein> i dont think so
<holstein> maybe some of it
<holstein> we can ask
<holstein> persia: thats a great idea
<holstein> some of our own theme options
<holstein> in addition to an awesome one out of the box
<persia> Maybe ask falktx when he's around.
<persia> I know there are several folk who prefer KDE and run our application stack, and if someone is willing to do the work to make this look nice, I think we ought to show off their stuff.
<ScottL> holstein, persia:  i bet if we talked to falktx he would be willing to try to work to get his theme into ubuntu studio
<ScottL> i don't know if it being developed for kde will have any problems
<persia> Oughtn't: Ubuntu has a complete KDE stack.
<persia> I'm not sure if can go on the DVD without making it hugely bloated, but that's a separate issue.
<persia> If nothing else, it ought be available as a post-install option
<holstein> we should check
<ScottL> but i had also considered this avenue for dick as well, making dream linux theme installed and available as an option
<holstein> it might actually be lean
<holstein> somewhat lean
<persia> I'm entirely in favour of bringing extra packages into Ubuntu, especially themes and similar, if someone wants to maintain them.
<persia> There's no real downside, because the packages don't have to be in place by default (unless some flavour manager chooses them), and there's a potentially unlimited upside as the creator becomes more familiar with working directly in Ubuntu rather than outside Ubuntu.
<ScottL> persia, one thing i mentioned to dick was that there would probably be collaboration between me and perhaps one/two others with the art director just to develop an art direction
<ScottL> and maybe a spec if other artists are involved
<ScottL> do you think that is too strong?
<persia> I think that's fine.  The more specificity you can add to the semantics of "art director" in the context of Ubuntu Studio, the less chance there is for assumptions to cause misunderstanding.
<persia> For instance, if you indicate that you expect the overall direction to be established by a committee including flavour leadership, the branding team, and the art team, with the "art director" being expected to execute that strategy it is likely to be interpreted differently than an indication that the "art director" is responsible for specifying and promoting a consistent direction for artwork to be included in Ubuntu Studio.
<persia> There are likely hundreds of other definitions of "art director" available: reducing confusion is largely a matter of ensuring that all parties have a shared understanding of the semantic value of the terms.
<ScottL> he's already responded to my email and seems quite enthusiastic
<persia> Excellent!
<ScottL> after visiting his websites, listening to some of his music, and watching some of his video, i come away feeling that he is a rather creative individual :)
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> ailo: Do you have rtirq installed?
<ailo> abogani: I uninstalled rtirq, and that did change the value, but not much http://paste.ubuntu.com/570549/
<ailo> ScottL: Uninstalling rtirq-init does not uninstall it at all. It should not be a dependency to any UbuntuStudio meta's since it is meant to be used with -rt kernels.
<ailo> I had to remove the rtirq-init files manully
<ailo> manually* from: /etc/init.d/rtirq /etc/rc*/*rtirq and /etc/default/rtirq
<abogani> ailo: I have some doubts: 50 is a suspicious value.
<ailo> abogani: Doubts about the rtirq? I also have rtkit installed, which is a dependency of pulseaudio
<abogani> Thoese are the reason why I don't like rtirq, rtkit and similar tools...
<persia> abogani: What do you prefer?
<abogani> persia: No one in particular as long as only one is installed at time.
<persia> Ah, so the issue is using *multiple* tools, not any of the specific tools.
<abogani> ailo: ping
<ailo> abogani: pong
<abogani> about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime
<abogani> Could you confirm me that -1- don't suffer of the problem (that is the latency grows from 2.9 to 5.8)?
<abogani> Sorry I mean -1-lowlatency
 * abogani is about to disable RT_GROUP_SCHED again
<ailo> abogani: I will do some testing. I'll get back on that tomorrow, then. 
<abogani> ailo: Thank you _very_ much.
<ailo> abogani: Isn't it strange still, that a wireless card has those numbers?
<abogani> ailo: Yeah. Upstream is already working on it.
<ailo> ScottL: So, we have a new guy aboard with the art bit?
<ailo> abogani: I still have xruns, very rarely, but I cannot say if this would have happened before as well.
<ailo> Because I didn't do enough testing before
<ailo> I should try the older kernel to see if I can get xruns at all from that (2.6.37
<abogani> ailo: Yes If you want
<ailo_> paultag: I'm a bit slow on progress, but I will be able to finish the functionality of the program today (some hours later from now). Because I am using subprocess.call(command), I will need to do all of the commands as shell commands like: gksudo -kA "sh -c 'command1; command2; command3'", which is not a problem. I will also need to use shell commands to replace text in audio.conf. If you see no problem with that, I will pr
<ailo_> oceed to implement it.
<ailo_> scott-work: I would appreciate to have some input on what text to add to the -controls program. If you like, you can do all the editing on that. My English is not perfect.
<scott-work> ailo_:  until now i hadn't considered that english wasn't your primary language
 * scott-work is presuming that it is not from your previous statement
<ailo_> scott-work: English is in fact my third language, though I consider it my working language nowadays. Swedish and Finnish are what I grew up with.
 * abogani has just updated the -lowlatency kernel...
<ailo> scott-work: I'm hoping to have a finished program evening time your time. It needs to be tested and the text needs to be edited. Someone needs to package it as well. I know a little bit about that, and we do have the original -controls to use as an example as well.
<ailo> As an example for packaging, I mean
<paultag> ailo: I can package, I maintain fluxbox :)
<paultag> co-maintain * I gues
<paultag> ailo: and that's great news! :)
<ailo> paultag: Allright. I'll ping you when the code is done. We still need to update the code after the text has been edited, though.
<paultag> ailo: no problem
<paultag> ailo: we're 1 hour from done on the code
<scott-work> paultag: ailo: if we plan to get this into natty we probably should just update the existing -control package then
<scott-work> after it's tested we can make a debdiff and get the patch into the repos
<paultag> scott-work: aye, but standards change, I'll have to ensure it's up to spec
<paultag> scott-work: we have to be careful with a debdiff, might want to keep it in vcs and upload a dsc :)
<paultag> I never liked debdiff for anything but checking changes :)
<scott-work> paultag: i freely admit that i'm still rather ignorant about some of the processes around getting changes into the repos and will defer to your experience :)
<paultag> scott-work: I'm green as well :)
<paultag> scott-work: how's your day?
<paultag> ailo: you as well, how are you today?
<scott-work> paultag: i'm going home from a migrane in a few minutes :/
<paultag> scott-work: aw shit. 
<paultag> scott-work: I get migranes daily 
<paultag> it sucks ass
<ailo> I'm fine, just have to go over to a friend and help him with his Windows installation for his parents. He had Ubuntu on it, but he doesn't dare to keep it. That's a virtual migrane at least :)
<scott-work> i get them four or five times a year and all i want to do is go home and sleep in a dark room for three or four hours, then i'm good to go
<paultag> ailo: aye :)
<paultag> scott-work: yeah man, I totally understand
<paultag> scott-work: loud noises suck
<paultag> oh damn
 * ailo will be gone for a few hours. - "See ya".
<paultag> ailo: cheers!
<scott-upstairs> abogani, ping
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-23
<ailo> paultag: I have to sleep. I'll have to wait another day with finishing the -controls. See you guys tomorrow.
<abogani> ScottL: pong
 * abogani is updating -lowlatency kernel...
<abogani> What about http://www.ffado.org/?q=node/1316 ?
<AutoStatic> abogani: New stack works with FFADO, except for DICE based devices
<abogani> AutoStatic: Ok, thanks!
<ScottL> abogani, are you available to help me work through building the -lowlatency kernel, i have your previous instructions but still not sure which directory you want me in, where the changelog is
<AutoStatic> DICE = chipset used in FireWire soundcards like the newer Focusrite Saffire Pro's.
<AutoStatic> And then only playback doesn't work, recording works fine
<scott-upstairs> anyway abogani, i'm sorry to need your to hold my hand like this, but i really do want to understand and get this done :)
<scott-upstairs> i'm at my upstairs computer and ready whenever you are
<scott-upstairs> abogani, previously for the -meta you asked me to be in the meta-source directory and update the changelog file
<scott-upstairs> abogani, for the -lowlatency directory there isn't a source directory (except under /debian and it only has a single file) so i do not believe that i am finding the correct changelog to update for this
<scott-upstairs> abogani, unless i really don't need to, but your instructions said for me to repeat the previous (i.e. -meta) instructions
<scott-upstairs> i'm going to need to leave for work soon, so please just reply and my lapttop (ScottL) will pick up the answers
<scott-upstairs> #720476
<scott-upstairs> bug 720476
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720476 in tasksel (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio Natty fails to install software when ubuntustudio-video is chosen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720476
<scott-upstairs> ah, but i did manage to remember to attach the /var/log/installer/syslog file to this bug per cjwatson's direction :)
<scott-upstairs> although i couldn't read it without being root, so i copied the text and posted that to the bug report
<scott-upstairs> now i'll bug (no pun intended) people in the #ubuntu-installer channel about it :P
 * ScottL is heading to work
<abogani> ScottL: The meta-source/ directory don't exit in ubuntu-natty-lowlatency tree. So simply ignore it. The relevant changelog in this case is debian.lowlatency/changelog so you should use dch -c debian.lolatency/changelog -i
<abogani> ScottL: Sorry if I missed to explain it adeguately
<scott-work> abogani: read the irc logs...thanks for the explanation :)
<scott-work> i'll continue to work on it tonight then
<scott-work> eh, ctwatson looked at the tasksel bug and found something in the log
<scott-work> Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target: The following packages have unmet dependencies: Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target:  libavcodec-extra-52 : Conflicts: libavcodec52 but 4:0.6.1-5ubuntu1 is to be installed Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target:  libavutil-extra-50 : Conflicts: libavutil50 but 4:0.6.1-5ubuntu1 is to be installed
<scott-work> bleargh...try that again
<scott-work> Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<scott-work> Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target:  libavcodec-extra-52 : Conflicts: libavcodec52 but 4:0.6.1-5ubuntu1 is to be installed
<scott-work> Feb 16 22:27:40 in-target:  libavutil-extra-50 : Conflicts: libavutil50 but 4:0.6.1-5ubuntu1 is to be installed
<scott-work> so, i'll dig and see which package is causing this problem and see what can be done to fix it
<scott-work> paultag: it looks like fluxbox 1.3 is out:  http://www.fluxbox.org/news/
<scott-work> paultag: what version were you packaging for ubuntu?
<paultag> scott-work: I packaged it before it was announced
<paultag> scott-work: that was what I was working on :)
<paultag> scott-work: so we had the Debian upload coincide with the fluxbox release, and then I sync'd it to natty a few hours later
<paultag> :)
<paultag> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fluxbox | http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/fluxbox.html
<paultag> Oh shucks, wrong link -- https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fluxbox/1.3.0-1
<abogani> paultag: Do you have any news about fluxbuntu?
<paultag> abogani: I'm not working with that project -- they want to do something totally different then what I had in mind :)
<scott-work> paultag: that's awesome paultag !
<paultag> scott-work: all in a days work :P
<paultag> we're going to release 1.3.1 soonish, too
<paultag> we're totally not doing the release-every-two-years thing anymore
<paultag> that's just dumb
<scott-work> paultag: i bet it took more than a days work though :P
<paultag> scott-work: ;)
<paultag> scott-work: anywho, that is a really good release, and showcases a new Ubuntu theme -- "Ubuntu Light"
<paultag> It's rather nice
<paultag> (and uses the Ubuntu font ;))
<abogani> _really_ interesting
<paultag> abogani: they want to rebuild packages and maintain that, I wanted to maintain a usable fluxbox DE, rather then just the WM
<paultag> abogani: so, I don't have time to spend on fluxbuntu, sadly
<paultag> I was working on fubuntu, but the name damned it from the start
<paultag> it's ether "FU buntu", "FFFFUUUUUU buntu", or "FuBu  ntu"
<paultag> all of which have a distinct issue with them :)
<abogani> How can I install fluxbox and remove GNOME obtain a working and usable system?
<paultag> abogani: Well fluxbox is a different thing then GNOME
<paultag> abogani: fluxbox is a window manager
<paultag> abogani: GNOME is a desktop env. (Applications on top of the window manager)
<paultag> abogani: so you can actually run fluxbox + GNOME, which is what I do
<paultag> (Fluxbox + GNOME applications / panels / settings daemons)
<paultag> BBL, going to work out
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-24
<TheMuso> Anybody around? I have a quick question. THere is new upstrae code in Debian's git for ardour, but it hasn't yet been uploaded to Debian. Should I grab it and upload it? Only have a short while till feature freeze.
<holstein> TheMuso: whats the #?
<holstein> i cant imagine why not
<holstein> ardour is stable
<TheMuso> holstein: The # of what?
<holstein> IF it doesnt break anything else
<holstein> or need anything else
<holstein> TheMuso: i was wondering if you could see the verion
<holstein> easily
<holstein> ScottL: ping ^^
<TheMuso> The version of what?
<holstein> ardour?
<holstein> is it a rev?
<holstein> or just fixes?
<TheMuso> Hrm maybe not, seems the new package is not ready according to git log.
<TheMuso> Its a rev.
<TheMuso> r8077.
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> i guess if it aint ready
<holstein> and, if it aint broke, dont fix it right?
<TheMuso> yep
<ScottL> hi TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey ScottL.
<ScottL> do you think you will have time for one more round of changes to the seeds
<ScottL> sorry to keep bothering you about it TheMuso but dvdstyler pullled in some rather unwanted packages (beyond the libavcodec business)
<TheMuso> ScottL: So remove it?
<ScottL> and i wanted to add zynjacku for the lv2rack package
<ScottL> i have a list, let me check it quickly to make sure nothing is being forgotten
<TheMuso> ok
<ScottL> TheMuso, yes, that was it, i think the plan would be to add zynjacku to the audio-common seed and remove dvdstyler from video seed
<TheMuso> ok will do.
<ScottL> TheMuso, also, what did the merge that cjwatson propose do for ffmpeg?
<TheMuso> Cleaned up ffmpeg related packages that got onto the disks.
<ScottL> was it the libavcodec stuff?
<TheMuso> yes
<ScottL> and that you for updating the seeds again, TheMuso , unless we continue to have failed installs i don't think it will change again for natty
<TheMuso> OK cool.
<TheMuso> and no problem.
<ScottL> TheMuso, how do you feel about me learning the rest of updating the seeds so you don't have to be bothered with this everytime?
<ScottL> and did you see cjwatson's suggested about using libavcoded*-extras-* from multiverse?
<TheMuso> Sure, I'll do it now as I've already started, but next time, let me know and I'll walk you through it.
<ScottL> TheMuso, i've done it through germinate but i have never uploaded to the repos yet and i don't believe i have rights, even for just ubuntu studio packages
<TheMuso> No I don't think you do.
<ScottL> persia had told me when i felt comfortable to ask for them, and in some cases i do, like the -menu package and a few others
<ScottL> but others still worry me a bit
<ScottL> it's interesting about ardour though, but paul usually posts when there is a new ardour release and i haven't seen anything about it
<TheMuso> Right.
<ScottL> holstein, after this week i'm going to start up backporting again, are you up for working on rakarrack together?
<ScottL> and maybe working on fixing the menu together as well?
<ScottL> although the menu update should wait until the.muso finishes the seeds update and it propagates 
<holstein> ScottL: yes
<holstein> i think if you're up for some hand-holding
<holstein> i can learn how to be more helpful with it all in the future
<TheMuso> ScottL: done
<ScottL> holstein, you'll do fine :)  it's actually pretty easy if there aren't dependency problems and i think i looked and most of ours shouldn't be
<ScottL> TheMuso, wow, thanks :)  i don't know what we would do without you
<TheMuso> You'd manage/get another MOTU to help you.
<holstein> nah, you're the only one TheMuso :)
<holstein> ScottL: you checked out http://harmonyseq.wordpress.com/ ?
<holstein> very cool
<TheMuso> holstein: Well, depending on whether I get a renewed interest in studio, the plan is to eventually withdraw completely.
<holstein> TheMuso: just let me know if i can do anything
<holstein> to help keep you interested
<TheMuso> holstein: sure
<TheMuso> heh ok
<TheMuso> Its just a matter of having so many other things on my plate, and those things being somewhat more important to me atm.
<holstein> i hear you
<holstein> but, i appreciate your time helping ScottL on the backend
<ScottL> TheMuso, i realize that i do use you like a crutch for such things as updating seeds, pushing patches and i've decided that i do need to expand into using other MOTU's for help
<TheMuso> ScottL: I don't mind, if I have the time.
<ScottL> TheMuso, oh, jono mentioned you again by name in his latest Linux Format article on unity, he wields your name as a power :)
<TheMuso> heh right
<TheMuso> I should really track these articles down...
<ScottL> "we realized we had alot of work to do for accessability on Unity, so we had Luke Y. head it up"   like there, it's taken care of ;)
<ScottL> TheMuso, i have membership with LXF and have access to the pdf's, i'll send then to you sometime
<TheMuso> ah ok, no its fine
<ScottL> TheMuso, it's no problem really, i have both of the magazines in the loo right now so i know which number they are, it won't take any effort really to get it from the website
<ScottL> holstein, harmonySEQ looks quite nice actually for live music, better than seq24 really
<holstein> thats what im thinking
<holstein> i was saying, i really havent figured out seq24
<holstein> and there is a button
<holstein> the one with the hammer i think?
<holstein> when i click that
<holstein> bad things happen
<holstein> and, i dont really know how to use it
<holstein> i spent about 4 minutes with Hseq
<holstein> and had something resembling music
<ScottL> holstein, i followed [lsd]'s (i wish he wouldn't use the brackets, they're hard to type) tutorial, it was like *magic* (did you see my eyes light up when i typed that?)
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> yeah, he is my go-to guy for most everything
<holstein> all the tutorials on his site have been helpful
<ailo> ScottL: ping
<ailo> I hear someone in the ubuntu-artwork team was interested in working with UbuntuStudio theme.
<ScottL> ailo, really?
<ailo> Just slept off some beers I had earlier. It's embarrassing that I'm still not finished with the -controls. I'll do it over the next few hours.
<ScottL> ailo, dick macinnis from dream studio (ubuntu studio derivative) emailed me about artwork and art director/lead
<ScottL> i should blog about looking for an art director/lead tomorrow as well (i should have done it tuesday but was ill)
<ScottL> i told dick i'd like to wait no longer than 2 weeks to make a decision after the blog post
<ailo> ScottL: A guy named cozziemoto says he emailed you. Don't know if that's the same guy.
<ScottL> ailo, do you konw who was interested in ubuntu-artwork?
<ScottL> cozziemoto isn't the same guy, i'll check email again
<ScottL> eh, can't find an email but i'll look for cozziemoto in #ubuntu-artwork and talk to him if i can
<ailo> ScottL: Sorry, I meant AustinDanger
<ailo> You can see some discussion about that in the logs
<ailo> About -11h from now
<ailo> in #ubuntu-artwork
<ScottL> i think i have austin's email then :)
<ScottL> i just haven't responded, probably tomorrow morning i shall answer a few emails
<ScottL> tonight i want to work on the -lowlatency kernel per abogani1 's instructions
<scott-upstairs> abogani1, i have some more questions for you (sorry for needing so much hand holding)
<scott-upstairs> abogani1, i see three debian folders
<scott-upstairs> 1) debian 2) debian.lowlatency and 3) debian.master
<scott-upstairs> the /debian directory doesn't have a changelog
<scott-upstairs> you told me i should be in /debian.lowlatency to udpate changelog but when i run debuild -S -sa it says it can find the debian/changelog and when i rename the folder to get around that it says there is no rules file
<scott-upstairs> the /debian file has the rules file
<scott-upstairs> the /debian.master has changelog but no rules files
<ailo> scott-upstairs: There's some symbolic links in the debian.lowlatency folders. Aren't they going to the right places?
<scott-upstairs> i would presume that i can rename the /debian.lowlatency to /debian (after renaming the /debian directory) and copy the rules file from the renamed /debian folder
<scott-upstairs> ailo, i didn't see any symbolic links in nautilus :(
<scott-upstairs> i suppose it would help me if i knew the purposes of all the different folders and what is tried to be accomplished
<ailo> scott-upstairs: In debian.lowlatency, changelog.generic points to the changelog in debian.master for example
<scott-upstairs> i.e. "i started with the debian folder and kept it as record but updated the .lowlatency folder from it, that's the run we will run everything from, yadda, yadda"
 * scott-upstairs realizes that sounds whiny
<scott-upstairs> hmmm, i don't have changelog.generic ailo in my debian.lowlatency folder
<scott-upstairs> i have changelog.historical
<scott-upstairs> but it's an actual text file, not a symlink
<ailo> scott-upstairs: Might be that the source has changed. But those files that are not specific to -lowlatency are just links
<scott-upstairs> ailo, BUT looking back at the original folder i see them, they just didn't copy to the new directory
<ailo> scott-upstairs: Maybe that's what's messing it up then?
<scott-upstairs> ailo,  it would appear so :P
<scott-upstairs> okay, i now have the symlinks in there but debuild still says it can't find a "readable debian/changelog anywhere"
<scott-upstairs> i tried "debuild debian.lowlatency/changelog -S -sa" but it didn't work still
<ailo> scott-upstairs: Sure the source is clean? Maybe better to start from the beginning?
<scott-upstairs> ailo, well, the source doesn't have a changelog or a symlink for changelog under the /debian directory
<scott-upstairs> but debian.lowlatency does have a changelog AND the symlink chagnelog.generic to the debian.master directory :/
<scott-upstairs> it's all rube goldberg to me
<scott-upstairs> ailo, did it work really easy for you?
 * scott-upstairs is beginning to get a complex :P
<ailo> scott-upstairs: Building the kernel? I haven't tried building this kernel. Just looked at the configs to see what I needed for a Debian Squeeze kernel, when I build that.
<ailo> built* that
<scott-upstairs> okay, i feel a little better LOL
<ailo> Don't know how to set up the custom flavor folder. Just added the configs into the main folder, which is a bit easier I guess
<ailo> scott-upstairs, I'm thinking there should be something useful to read about that in the wiki, but the pages I've visited are all a bit outdated. Still, they may provide some info. I'm sure it's not as hard as it seems after knowing some more about it.
<scott-upstairs> ailo, i think i'm close, it's probably just a step that abogani1 forgot to tell me or that i'm too ignorant to realize myself (this is why i like to understand more about the process's goals)
<scott-upstairs> ailo, email away to austin :)
<ailo> paultag: Are you a python re wizard?
<paultag> ailo: humm?
<paultag> ailo: regexps?
<paultag> I know my way around a regex, but i'm not fantastic
<paultag> why?
<ailo> paultag: I'm trying to create search patterns to find if user is in audio group and what value memlock is set at, but I'm learning really slowly how to do that
<paultag> ahhha
<paultag> ailo: which file is that again?
<ailo> memlock string to look for is "@audio   -  memlock    unlimited" in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
<ailo> "unlimited" can either be a number, or unlimited
<paultag> ailo: are those tabs or any number of spaces?
<ailo> Just white space. I guess re can use \s for that
<paultag> ailo: it'll be simple if you break this up a bit -- see if you can find the @audio line, then run two regexps against it to get each value. That's actually super simple :)
<paultag> ailo: aye! It'd be \s*
<paultag> space, one --> sideways 8
<ailo> I just want the value, so either "unlimited" or the number if it's a number
<ailo> I can get the string now, but don't know how to get just the value
<paultag> ailo: so you know it's going to be \w*, then a \s*, then a -, then \s*, then a \w*, then a \s*, then you want the following \w* until the ^
<paultag> sorry! $
<paultag> not ^
<ailo> ah, I think I get it. Let me try it
<paultag> ailo: or, if you want to get randy, you can use \S (for non-whitespace), but let's just start off with that :)
<paultag> ailo: bracket expressions will help you here :)
<abogani1> scott-upstairs: ScottL: You need of "fakeroot debian/rules clean" before "debuild -S -sa".
<scott-upstairs> /bin/bash: kernel-wedge: command not found
<scott-upstairs> make: *** [debian/control] Error 127
<scott-upstairs> abogani, ^^^
<scott-upstairs> when i ran "fakeroot debian/rules clean"
<scott-upstairs> i suppose i need to install "kernel-wedge" :P
<scott-upstairs> installed kernel-wedge, reran "fakeroot debian/rules clean" and "debuild -S -sa" and all seems to have worked, dput'ing to my ppa now
<abogani> scott-upstairs: Good job! :)
<ScottL> eh, i forgot to remove "ubuntu1" in the changelog and launchpad rejected it becuase i was trying to a do a "release" pocket (or whatever the note said)
<ScottL> then i removed the "ubuntu1" and then rebuilt, tried to upload and it said it  wasn't a changes file :/
<ScottL> but it looked like it uploaded, don't know
<ScottL> i'll probably just start over at the "cp -a debian*" tonight after i purge a few things
<abogani> ScottL: Do you have executed "fakeroot ..." again?
<ScottL> abogani, yes, i believe i did
<AutoStatic> It might be useful to use pbuilder(-dist), that will save you from dputs being rejected
<scott-upstairs> it's still giving me "Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'SUPPORTED' state." in the rejected email from launchpad
<abogani> scott-upstairs: Forward me the email.
<scott-upstairs> sent to gmail account abogani 
<scott-upstairs> i think the last time i saw this kind of email it was because i just typed "dput foo.changes" and didn't put my ppa, but I'm doing it this time :P
<scott-upstairs> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<scott-upstairs>   Uploading linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30.dsc: done.
<scott-upstairs>   Uploading linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30.tar.gz: done.      
<scott-upstairs>   Uploading linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30_source.changes: done.
<scott-upstairs> Successfully uploaded packages.
<scott-upstairs> Not a .changes file.
<scott-upstairs> Please select a .changes file to upload.
<scott-upstairs> Tried to upload: ppa:slavender/broken
<scott-upstairs> scott@lucid-studio:~/build/kernel$ 
<scott-upstairs> okay, i need to get daughter to bus stop and go to work, i'll check back in later tonight
<scott-upstairs> thanks for your help abogani 
<abogani> scott-upstairs: Please let me know your dput command line.
<scott-upstairs> scott@lucid-studio:~/build/kernel$ ls
<scott-upstairs> aboganis-lowlatency
<scott-upstairs> aboganis-meta-lowlatency
<scott-upstairs> linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30.dsc
<scott-upstairs> linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30_source.build
<scott-upstairs> linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30_source.changes
<scott-upstairs> linux-lowlatency_2.6.38-3.30.tar.gz
<scott-upstairs> rebuild
<scott-upstairs> scott@lucid-studio:~/build/kernel$ dput -f *.changes ppa:slavender/broken
<paultag> ailo: prod :)
<TheMuso> Fixing the daily builds...
<scott-work> TheMuso: what's wrong with the daily builds?
<TheMuso> scott-work: language-selector breakage.
<scott-work> TheMuso: is the part in the build log where it keeps complaining about language packs?
<ailo> paultag: Hi, I'm doing the last bit of code now to make the program fully functional, though it will still need some text editing
<paultag> ailo: roger!
<TheMuso> scott-work: Don't know what thats about.
<scott-work> TheMuso: if you are interested, around line 326 it starts a *large* list of missing language packs: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/natty/daily-20110224.log
<scott-work> i've thought about looking into it but i figured there are more important things to devote time to at this time
<TheMuso> hrm interesting, will take a look later if I have time.
<scott-work> oh, language, gimp and aspell packs
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<ailo> paultag: I know I must be braindead to thing the feature freeze was the 28th, but how is the situation for this app now?
<ailo> There's still some work to be done
<ailo> I just got the functionality going
<paultag> ailo: if it can be done I can roll it and ready to upload. worst comes to worst we declare a critical bug against ubuntu studio that the upload closes
<ailo> paultag: You can pull the app if you want
<ailo> paultag: Some basic things I don't still know about. The app only starts from the terminal. What is missing?
<paultag> ailo: why can't it start from GNOME?
<ailo> paultag: Don't know. If I double click the main python file, it won't start. 
<paultag> oh damn, that error again
<paultag> damn, I'm outdated
<paultag> ailo: I can't run it on 10.10
<paultag> which is OK
<paultag> as long as it runs on 11.04
<paultag> ailo: it needs to find the glade file, I would guess
<ailo> Full path then..
<paultag> ailo: have you tried making a setup.py for it?
<paultag> ailo: I mean to double-click it
<ailo> No, haven't learned about that
<paultag> ailo: I have a template setup.py you can use
<paultag> ailo: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-lococouncil/locolint/trunk/view/head:/setup.py
<ailo> paultag: I guess it would be easier to use the setup.py that comes with the original version
<paultag> ailo: haha aye
<ailo> paultag: Ok, the setup.py makes the app usable, though it won't install all the files
<ailo> I guess the debian package should take care of the rest
<ailo> paultag: Actually, the setup.py creates a folder in the folder where I run "sudo python setup.py install"
<paultag> :)
<ailo> paultag: I'm adding the original source + a folder with my app setup in the same way. Maybe you can take a look, hold on
<paultag> ailo: of course
<ailo> paultag: Ok. Those should be all the files. So, all of the files except "ubuntustudio-controls" and "meminfo_total" should end up in /usr/share/ubuntustudio-controls/
<paultag> ailo: you can just add it to the .install :)
<ailo> paultag: The Debian .install, you mean?
<paultag> ailo: aye
<paultag> ailo: unless you want to put it in setup.py, which is the "right" way to do it
<ailo> paultag: So, the current setup.py is not functional?
<paultag> ailo: I've not looked at it
<paultag> ailo: but try doing a sudo setup.py install
<paultag> ailo: and if it installs, then you're OK, if it fails, then it's failed :)
<ailo> paultag: I tried that, but it would only install the program files, not the resources
<ailo> paultag: I'll edit the Debian package and try that
<paultag> ailo: so, no, it's not functional totally
<paultag> ailo: but yeah the deb package can compensate
<ailo> paultag: http://paste.ubuntu.com/571965/
<ailo> paultag: I haven't changed anything about that file to my knowledge
<paultag> ailo: because you have a prefix in debian/
<paultag> oh wait
<paultag> nvmd
<paultag> ailo: push the branch up and I'll pull it, if you'd like
<ailo> paultag: It's including the files after trying to build the package. I've updated some files, the changelog, for instance. But, I wouldn't know if I missed something
<ailo> paultag: But the package got built
<ailo> paultag: Ok
<ailo> paultag: git crashed, took me some time
<ailo> paultag: No package, but a tar file, as you will see
<ailo> paultag: Ok, so that's the source file. Great.
<paultag> righto
<ailo> paultag: The meminfo_total.py ends up in */python2.7/* instead of 2.6
<ailo> Which I guess it should
<ailo> paultag: Which version of Glade worked for you?
<paultag> ailo: none, sadly. There was a function that you actually needed 2.24 for
<paultag> ailo: your versioning is fine right now :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-25
<ailo> ScottL: scott-upstairs: No -lowlatency in the repo?
<ailo> paultag: Reading on Debian Python policy http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<paultag> ailo: you can clone my lintco debdir
<paultag> ailo: it's clean according to python policy
<paultag> scott-upstairs: I'm filing a bug as insurince
<paultag> scott-upstairs: can you mark https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/724656 <-- as critical?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 724656 in Ubuntu Studio "ubuntustudio-controls is both hackish and out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<paultag> ailo: can you close bug 724656 in your changelog?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724656 in Ubuntu Studio "ubuntustudio-controls is both hackish and out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724656
<paultag> <-- has no bug-control rights for ubuntustudio :)
<ailo> paultag: We should perhaps remove the -controls from Maverick. On Lucid it only makes half sense
<paultag> ailo: aye, not a bad idea
<ailo> So, the bug is still in effect for the older releases
<paultag> ailo: we can worry about backporting after it's all set for natty (or removal)
<paultag> ailo: that's a big process and takes a bit of time. Let's just get this all set :)
<ailo> paultag: Can't say I'm happy with the program right now. Would like to change how it executes the commands. Read something about that. Using gksudo in a shell doesn't seem like the optimal approach. The app freezes while it makes changes
<paultag> ailo: it's OK
<ailo> paultag: The bug you wanted me to close. Set it to invalid?
<ailo> Oh, sorry. Confused. In the changelog...
<ailo> paultag: So, you don't know what the python version problem is with the packaging?
<paultag> ailo: no, I'm not a python guru
<paultag> ailo: perhaps someone in -motu maintains a python app for real
<ailo> paultag: Ok, I will investigate. Thanks for your help :).
<paultag> ailo: rock on!
<ScottL> paultag, bug marked as critical now
<ScottL> oi, you probably got the email anyways
<ScottL> ailo left already, i'll wait till he's back to comment on -lowlatency
<paultag> ScottL: you rule, thanks :)
<paultag> ScottL: since it's RC, we can upload -controls through featre freeze ;)
<ailo> Last upgrade on Natty seems to have killed my networking
<ScottL> ailo, ouch, that sucks :(
<ScottL> ailo, as far as the -lowlatency kernel, that's still up to abogani to get to persia to push into the repos at this point
<TheMuso> Yes there is an isc-dhcp package issue, a fix has been uploaded, it will take time to trickle down to mirrors.
<ailo> ScottL: Don't we need to upload it before feature freeze?
<TheMuso> Feature freeze is in effect.
<paultag> TheMuso: seriously?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> Check the topic in #ubuntu-devel, and read the latest message on ubuntu-devel-announce@lists.ubuntu.com.
<TheMuso> I suggest you guys keep an eye on both places.
<ailo> TheMuso: so it's impossible to upload a new kernel, or is that not affected?
<TheMuso> Adding any new packages to the archive is not possible, unless you are granted a feature freeze exception. The earlier these are applied for, the better.
<paultag> TheMuso: I don't do ubuntu-devel, so I don't like subing to such noisy lists :)
<paultag> TheMuso: it's already there, and it closes a RC bug
<ScottL> i suppose we should really talk to abogani and see if he is willing to submit one for pushing to the repos
<paultag> TheMuso: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-controls
<paultag> Oh shit, we're not talking about that
 * paultag walks away
<ScottL> lol
<TheMuso> paultag: ubuntu-devel-announce is low traffic.
<ScottL> i didn't finish my thought though :/
<ScottL> if abogani doesn't have a kernel he wants to push then it doesn't do any good to see about filing a freeze exception
<ScottL> although if he is willing to provide one then i would be happy to file the exception :)
<scott-upstairs> heh, abogani, i think i might have found another part of my trouble:
<scott-upstairs> scott@lucid-studio:~/kernel$ debuild -S -sa
<scott-upstairs> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<scott-upstairs> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
<scott-upstairs> (expected one of linux-lowlatency_2.6.38.orig.tar.gz, linux-lowlatency_2.6.38.orig.tar.bz2,
<scott-upstairs> linux-lowlatency_2.6.38.orig.tar.lzma or kernel.orig)
<scott-upstairs> continue anyway? (y/n)
<scott-upstairs> i'm pretty sure this is what is giving me the bad .changes file
 * abogani waves
<abogani> We don't have a any kernel to push.
<abogani> ScottL: ^
<scott-upstairs> abogani, i looked under your -lowlatency directory but did not find an original tarball for the -lowlatency kernel
<scott-upstairs> i did find one under the -lowlatency-meta directory however (which explains why this same error didn't show up previously)
<scott-upstairs> am i missing something from the git directory?
<abogani> scott-upstairs: No. It is a native package so It don't have original tarball.
<abogani> Ok.
<abogani> Remove _all_ (but not the git tree).
<abogani> for every git tree directory execute "git remote update --prune && git reset --hard origin"
<abogani> And so retry again
<abogani> This time start with ubuntu-natty-lowlatency package
<abogani> (the kernel)
<ailo-net_> Whats a sure way to install natty from usb? Ive failed so far with both current live and alternative cd as well as alpha 2 live cd
<ailo-net_> Using both ubuntus usb creator and unetbootin
<falktx> ailo-net_: alternate cd in usb is possible too
<falktx> maybe that will work
<ailo-net_> Already tried that, but havent tried alpha 2 version yet
<ailo-net_> All of them boot, but all of them fail at some point
<falktx> heh
<falktx> I hope they fix natty issues soon, or it will be a disaster
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/697774
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 697774 in Ubuntu Studio "cant install ubuntustudio from USB stick" [Undecided,New]
<ailo-net_> I lost networking in my last upgrade. That and other reasons make me want to do a fresh install
<holstein> although i havent tried it myself, i was told https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuServerFlashDriveInstaller worked
<falktx> "Won't Fix?"
<ailo-net_> Well, I havent even tried installing UbuntuStudio yet. Did that on another machine more than a week ago, and it installed well from DVD, except when logging in the graphics were corrupted.
<holstein> O I C
<holstein> natty vanilla is failing
<holstein> interesting
<holstein> i installed from CD
<ailo-net_> Could be the prolem is Im trying to install from usb
<ailo-net_> I also tried installing from harddisk, but I must be missing some info on that. Was able to boot, but after choosing language, the installation freezed.
<ailo-net_> Just want to be able to install without CD or DVD. :P
<ailo-net_> This must be the bug I suffer fro v
<ailo-net_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/isc-dhcp/+bug/724556
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 724556 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Natty) "[Natty] isc-dhcp update breaks network connection" [Critical,Fix released]
<ailo-net_> Seems like Alpha 2 with unetbootin is what will work for me
<scott-work> falktx: which "natty issues" are you speaking of?
<falktx> scott-work: gcc errors
<scott-work> ailo-net_: TheMuso said it was know and a fix pushed but it would take time for the fix to hit all the mirrors
<scott-work> falktx: OH!  aye, that would be disasterous
<scott-work> i've seen traffic on the debian multimedia team list about that as well
<ailo-net_> The bug should be fixed now, from what they wrote
<ailo> Finally!
<ailo> ScottL: I noticed Ubuntu's default desktop on Natty is looking very similar to a standard Gnome desktop. This is my impression making a fresh install of vanilla Alpha 2.
<ScottL> ailo,  is that good or bad in your opinion?
<ailo> ScottL: Can't tell what is the big difference really. Some of the features we saw earlier are missing. Pretty much the only thing I see is a united indicator applet, and the indicator-app-menu (mac global menu thing), which you can remove if you want.
<ailo> Otherwise it looks very similar to before
<ailo> Perhaps they rolled back a lot of features because of time pressure?
<ailo> Not that I know what the goal is for unity
<ailo> ScottL: When I say similar to before, I mean similar to Maverick
<ScottL> ailo, which features are missing?
<ailo> ScottL: The panel seems to be a normal Gnome panel, there's no sidebar, the main menu is a Gnome main menu...
<ailo> ScottL: Really the other way around, nothing seems to be added, except for the global mac style menu
<ScottL> ailo, you mean for vanilla ubuntu or ubuntu desktop
<ScottL> not ubuntu studio
<ScottL> yes?
<ailo> ScottL: This is from installing the vanilla Ubuntu, Alpha 2 release
 * ailo is going to take another look
<ailo> ScottL: The Ubuntu default Desktop is virtually identical to the "classic" Desktop right now.
<ailo> ScottL: Looking at the packages I can see that they've broken down unity into different packages.
<ScottL> well, luckily that shouldn't affect us though :)
<ScottL> ailo, did you see alessio's response about having a -lowlatency kernel?  basically he said he didn't have one :(
<ScottL> " We don't have a any kernel to push" is what he said actually
<ailo> ScottL: I was wondering what he meant.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-26
<ailo> How about adding a hack to make those chips work with PA, that aren't doing so now?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-02-27
<ScottL> bug 726199
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 726199 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[natty] ubuntustudio-menu does not show all applications in correct menus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/726199
<ScottL> holstein, ^^^ this is the bug for updating the menu, are you still interested?
<holstein> ScottL: yeah, im in
<holstein> i'll ping you tomorrow
<holstein> things chill out for me for a few days
<ScottL> cool :)
<ScottL> i closed out a quite a few bugs today :)  i feel pretty good about that
<ScottL> ailo, i have a stable computer for testing kernels at the moment (although i hope to start backporting soon), so if you have preferences on what you would like to see me do please let me know
<ScottL> one thing i think i would like to try is to try to heavily load the computer with multiple tracks with multiple plugins and see how the -generic vs -lowlatency kernels perform
<ScottL> after establishing a base line for both of them with extremely moderate loading
<ailo> ScottL: Haven't been working on that much lately. The problem is not only using a routine for testing, like a test suite, but also gather data to see what is causing xruns. 
<ailo> ScottL: My impression is that heavy load is not a primary cause for xruns
<ailo> ScottL: My impression is that xruns will only happen if 1. the CPU load reaches absolute maximum with realtime processes 2. An app is not well programmed to deal with realtime at low latencies
<ailo> Or 3. Something else, unrelated to the audio apps is doing it, like the Networking hardware
<ailo> But, I don't have any way of putting that on paper. Would be good to learn more about gathering data from the system. From what abogani showed me about catching kernel messages, it doesn't seem that straight forward. I will have to learn more about that. 
<ailo> The biggest problem I see is if there are other things, unrelated to audio that is interrupting the audio process, even though there's plenty of room for the audio process to exist. 
<paultag> ailo: how goes?
<ailo> As for evaluating performance on the -lowlatency kernel, I don't think there's anything more needed to be done for enhancing audio priority, since it's superfast in my opinion.. Rather to get rid of other disturbing processes, that interrupt the audio process, whatever they are.
<ailo> Hey, paultag.
<paultag> s'new?
<ailo> Not much. I'm taking a break from US development, and doing some work of my own. 
<paultag> sweet. What are you working on?
<ailo> Puredata patches. Trying to create some sort of simple IDE. I find that after getting to a certain limit, I loose oversight of the whole thing. Need a task-manager and I use issue reporting too.
<ailo> I have redmine installed on my server, so I use that to keep track of things.
<paultag> sweet
<ailo> Looking back at a lot of things, I don't even remember I was working on them. It's like the brain can only hold that much info.
<ailo> Any skiing lately, paultag?
<paultag> ailo: sadly no! I've been super stressed. Working on a quick two-minute hack to fix my shell, which should be nice :)
<paultag> I hate that bash can't highlight regular lines that come out of programs
<paultag> so, fuck it! Time to implement it :)
<ailo> paultag: You want to catch certain messages more easily?
<paultag> ailo: well, most debian / ubuntu tools use prefixes to lines, such as "I:" or "W:". I want to highlight those in a color :)
<ailo> paultag: On the -controls. I want to replace the shell commands with Python code. I realized there's a big library that deals with apt. Only thing missing is to use that in superuser mode.
<paultag> Oh shucks. I think I need to do homework
<paultag> ailo: :)
<paultag> ailo: great! Awesome work! :)
<paultag> ailo: we already missed FF, so let's make sure we don't rush it. 28th ain't no deadline anymore
<paultag> BRB
<ailo> ScottL: It would perhaps be interesting to test the -generic kernel, if it perform as reliably with audio, even though we already know it won't give you anyway near acceptably low latency for live processing. By reliably, I mean, if it will work without causing xruns at say 512 frames/period (I think that's the lowest number that works for me).
<ScottL> ailo, generally what i have done before is keep lowering the frame/period down until i started having xruns (not the kind when you start apps, but while recording)
<ScottL> then back up one and call that "stable"
<ScottL> i usually do this a few times (maybe three) to make sure it's really there
<ailo> ScottL: From my experience with -lowlatency, I won't get xruns because of system load from audio processes, but I don't know if this is true for the -generic as well.
<ScottL> last time i tried with this computer i got stupidly silly frame/period and latency with onboard sound!
<ScottL> with the -lowlatency kernel
<ailo> -lowlatency for me is working just as well as the -rt kernel did. The -generic is noway near the same latency.
<ScottL> i don't remember exactly but i think with -generic i was around 512 or maybe 256 frames/perdio but with -lowlatency it was at 32 frame/peroid stable and 16 with a some xruns
<ScottL> but that took the latency from 23msecs down to around 5 msecs
<ScottL> i think that is very, very appreciable
<ScottL> :)
<ailo> Wow, I can't even start jack with 16. At 64 frames/period I get reliable performance with audio apps.
<ailo> On the -lowlatency
<ailo> About 2-3 ms
<ailo> Or, did. Lately I get a few random xruns now and then, probably caused by networking.
<ScottL> oh, with 16 frame/period i was getting 1.6msec latency with some xruns
<ScottL> ailo, that's a good point too, networking, espeically now that we should be using network-manager, might have an appreciable impact on latency/xruns
<ScottL> paultag, when you get back i would like to talk with you and ailo about the RC bug for -controls and making sure we get there from here :)
<ailo> ScottL: After following aboganis instructions, we found that the kernel process for the wireless card was getting realtime priority. He said they were working on fixing that upstream. 
<ScottL> ailo, oh WOW, um, that's a pretty important "oops", isn't it :P
<ailo> I still know too little about , so I can't really say what is going on. Seems like something that suits a server more than an audio work station, anyway
<ailo> The -controls are fully functional right now, though  need to be packaged and tested. Also, I need to improve some bits in it.
<ailo> I also think we should try to get the -lowlatency uploaded. We can't make serious audio work without it :(
<paultag> ScottL: sure
<paultag> ScottL: I need to run out, I'll read backlog
<ailo> ScottL: What do you want to know about the controls? If you want, you can test it to see the state of it.
<ailo> Just do: git clone git://gitorious.org/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls.git ubuntustudio-controls
<ailo> And go to ubuntustudio-controls-0.5/ubuntustudio-controls-0.5/src. Make sure you have aboganis repo added
<ailo> Then do ./ubuntustudio-controls to start the program. (only works in Natty, from what paultag said).
<ailo> Don't know yet if there are any dependencies to watch out for.
<ailo> ScottL: Should work without installing anything extra. Just realized I had it working on a fresh install of Natty.
<ailo> The actual "apply" commands is a little buggy. That part I will replace.
<ailo> It works, but you'll see what I mean
<ScottL> ailo, paultag: there are a couple of issues i'm thinking about, 1) the -lowlatency kernel and 2) freeze exception/getting it finished
<ScottL> 1) aboganni doesn't seem to want to provide a kernel currently so i wouldn't expect to get the -lowlatency kernel into the repos for natty
<ScottL> that kinda makes it difficult currently, but sets us up nicely i think for natty+1
<ailo> ScottL: If that is the case, we will have to decide if to add a PPA for it at least. If not, we just remove that function all together. Did you try the app yet?
<ScottL> 2) if we can commit to getting it done and maybe setting a deadline then i'll work on the freeze exception
<ailo> ScottL: If I can get some help with packaging, I might be able to finish the program a little quicker.
<ScottL> ailo, i have not tried it yet, been doing stuff with family and about to go pick up takeout dinner
<ScottL> ailo: maybe paultag can help you wrap it up :)
<ScottL> ailo, are we not including the ability to install the -rt kernel as well?
<ScottL> if so, then both can go into the PPA
<ailo> ScottL: Don't know if paultag is much wiser about python packaging. Just reading about that. 
<ailo> ScottL: Someone would need to build an -rt kernel first, no? If there is one, I will of course add that to the -controls.
<ailo> There's supposed to be a realtime patch coming out for 2.6.37, but I hear a lot of the patch is already in the vanilla kernel. Don't know when we can expect it to be ready.
<ScottL> ailo, there is an older -rt kernel, .33 perhaps?, that people are using, if we host it in ppa we don't need align with what desktop is using
<ScottL> ailo, paultag: i was thinking that if we only get setting the user in audio group and fix setting rtprio, etc to the correct file for natty, that should be enough to justify the RC bug
<ScottL> because currently -controls sets the rtprio in the wrong file and probably causes instability
<ScottL> then we can shoot for -lowlatency and -rt kernels for natty+1 perhaps
<ScottL> less pressure and we can work through the -kernel better perhaps
<ailo> The current -controls is not doing anything right, which is why I think, if we do not backport the one we are working on now, we should at least remove the old one from the repos.
<ailo> Don't know how far back the problem goes. At least Lucid, maybe Karmic as well
<ailo> Firewire is set up right until Lucid, I think
<ScottL> ailo, if we can get -controls working then i will see to it to get it backported, especially to the LTS version
<ScottL> ailo, and are you speaking of setting the rtprio and memlock in the correct file?
<ScottL> or is there another problem with -controls from maverick and lucid?
<ailo> ScottL: Don't know when audio.conf replaced limits.conf, but I think since Karmic
<ailo> Firewire is another story. I think the setup works in Lucid, because it's the old stack. Not on Maverick, because of the new stack, and on Natty we don't need it anymore.
<ailo> ScottL: The controls I've been working on are functional, but need maybe a few days of work. In the worst case, I can finish up it in a couple of days and have it work nicely. Packaging still needs some attention.
<ScottL> ailo, do you know why firewire doesn't work in maverick?  should i ask holstein since he has a firewire device?
<ailo> ScottL: It's an easy fix.
<ailo> ScottL: The name for firewire changed, so the file that gives @audio prio to firewire needs to use the new name
<ailo> But, we'll cross that river when we get there. Each release needs a different backport.
<ailo> ScottL: So, no -lowlatency option on the -controls at all?
<ailo> In that case we are left with (for Natty) 1.giving user realtime privilege, 2.adjusting memlock, 3. installing restricted extras, all of which are functional right now.
<ailo> For Maverick and Lucid we would just need to re-add the firewire enabling. But for each release, it would work differently.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-20
<ScottL> len, looking briefly, i light the effort you put into it though :)
<ScottL> but it looks pretty good at this point, but again, i need to think more about it
<len-nb> ScottL: I'll clean it up anyway. (*.directory files and remove the mailer)
<len-nb> It may be better to fix up the panels first as they are broken right now.
<len-nb> As that is all one file I can fix it and send an attach in email.
<len-nb> All: while breaking the audio production menu into smaller bits may be a pain to the user who knows what each app does, the new user may find having everything separated into function easier to use.
<len-nb> ScottL: One more thing I wanted to ask (and anyone else who adds something)
<len-nb> Could you announce when you upload any change?
<len-nb> I then know to look for something new and what to check. it would mean feedback the next day pretty much.
<len-nb> ScottL: Just looked at the new files you uploaded... lightdm.conf in particular.
<len-nb> You have changed the default session, but did not add the greeter-session=lightdm-gtk-greeter line. I thought that was needed for lightdm to work right.
<len-nb> I guess the postinst is supposed to do that.
<len-nb> I think it should set the default session too.
<ScottL> len, i believe that also (the postinst configures lightdm and set correct config file)
<ScottL> len, i also think i understand why some icons are not showing up in the menu/panels
<ScottL> len, when micah uploaded the -icon-theme package he removed some of the icons that i had included (which was based on xubuntu's work)
<ScottL> i should note that he had good reason to do what he did, but i think we will probably still need them, especially for the menu icon and other ubuntustudio icon locations
 * micahg wonders what he excluded
<ScottL> micahg, there should have been quite a few pixmaps directories
<micahg> ScottL: IIRC, you already dropped all the icons, I just fixed the transitional packages so you got what you thought you were getting
<ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-artwork/precise/files/head:/usr/share/
<micahg> ScottL: I think that's a bug :)
<ScottL> there are icon and pixmaps directory that aren't there anymore
<ScottL> lol
<ScottL> i'm not really sure about where they should go (as far as which package) but i think we still need to include some of those
<micahg> well, the pixmaps are xubuntu specific, the icons should be broken out so US can use them as well
<micahg> I mentioned it to ochosi before, but not sure what happened with that
<ScottL> i think the pixmaps in this case were the menu icons, distributor icons, etc
<micahg> but, as I said, I didn't drop anything in the icons package, you did all that :)
<ScottL> really?
<ScottL> crap, then maybe i forgot to 'bzr add' ?
<micahg> ScottL: bzr log -p | less
<ScottL> i'm not on that machine currently :/
<ScottL> but i can do it in a bit though
<micahg> no, you can run that on a checkout of the branch
<ScottL> sorry about saying you did it, i saw that you had made some changes and presumed you had removed the icons as well
<ScottL> especially since you said you had been talking with ochosi
<len-nb> ScottL: I was just noticing that. You are right the icon is speced right so it must not be there.
<micahg> I wouldn't do that without asking :), however, adding the same icons to US-icon-theme isn't a good idea, we should just get it broken out from xubuntu-artwork and add it to the meta dependency
<ScottL> but i would still need to add the pixmaps for the distributor logo
<ScottL> i need to still do the LTS application, the mudita syncrequest, and something else tonight (after taking one of the kids into town)
<ScottL> i won't get to this tonight, but i really want to do it soon
<Len-1204> ScottL: When adding to the change log please add date. It looks like the default-settings package I can download is today's, but I am not sure The last dated entry is Jan30 and your's is after that... 
<Len-1204> What I was looking at is the changelog in properties from synaptic.
<Len-1204> Looking at LP, there is a date on the top change but not the one below.
<Len-1204> Having done some more looking... it may be that two things were done the same day. My mistake.
<Len-1204> Still learning how to read these things
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, looks like quadrispro hasn't finalized the mudita24.desktop update yet
<scott-upstairs> i see it in their git repo, but it doesn't look like it's been released yet though :(
<Len-1204> scott-upstairs: Re: mudita24, if we add it as is. when the package gets up dated wouldn't our iso pull in the new one?
<scott-upstairs> Len-1204, yes, it should
<Len-1204> But you would like to get the sync request in.
<scott-upstairs> although the package will not get updated this cycle unless we file a sync request with reason since we are past debian import freeze
<scott-upstairs> aye
<Len-1204> What time frame?
<Len-1204> Before we have to have it for 1204
<scott-upstairs> refreshing the meta packages is not a trivial task, therefore before i ask micah or another to do such a thing i like to make sure that it is for a fairly non-trivial reason
<scott-upstairs> therefore i have not been particularly in a hurry to include it in the seeds at this point
<scott-upstairs> but i seem to remember that the iso starting including these items anyways
<scott-upstairs> so i guess i probably will go ahead and put it in there tonight
<Len-1204> Just found out AT1 is under z ... no wonder I couldn't find it.
<scott-upstairs> mudita24 added to seeds now
<Len-1204> I'll check for it tomorrow.
<ScottL> i sent the lts plan proposal to the technical board tonight
<ScottL> now i just have to figure out when and where the board will meet :/
<Len-1204> ScottL: we are missing an icon called ffado  as it is a mixer, the alsa-tools icon could be copied to that name.
<ScottL> Len-1204, i seem to remember that ffado might not ever have had a proper icon, maybe not and i'm just misremembering
<Len-1204> Like i say we can use the same one all the other mixers use.
<Len-1204> ScottL: putting another icon in is less intrusive than mucking with the *.desktop file.
<Len-1204> ScottL:  Hexter is also missing it's icon... suggest a copy of phasex.xpm
<Len-1204> Or link
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: I'll check when I get home. It might be in sid, but just not synced.
<Len-1204> ScottL: and anyone else http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html has been updated refresh if you are looking again.
<Len-1204> The director icons/text has been fixed and the rest of the apps moved as needed.
<Len-1204> There has already been one comment against any menu changes from stock on the list.
<Len-1204> Good night, comments left here will be seen tomorrow. or the use list.
<scott-work> micahg:  are you able to help me upload the changes to the ubuntustudio-default-settings and ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme packages?
<micahg> scott-work: yeah, I have to upload chromium first, but then I'll get to sponsoring
<scott-work> micahg: do you wish me to add sponsors to the bug report
<micahg> scott-work: did you fix what I mentioned last night about default-settings?
<scott-work> micahg: i'm sorry, i don't remember which part that was, can you tell me again?
 * scott-work is checking logs now
<micahg> ScottL: you generally want to leave those changelogs as UNRELEASED until they're ready, as for ubuntustudio-default-settings, you didn't mention the gesttings override change, also, does ubuntustudio have greybird anymore (moved to shimmer-themes), plus IIRC elementary-xfce-dark is xubuntu specific ATM, so i'm not sure you have this either (this is something Xubuntu needs to fix)
<scott-work> micahg: i will leave the changelogs as UNRELEASED from here forward
<scott-work> micahg:  i'm not sure about mentioning the gsettings, but i trust that you are correct
<micahg> so, as discussed last night, to use the xfce dark theme, you'll need to seed xubuntu-icon-theme
<micahg> scott-work: bzr log -p -rtag:0.28..
<scott-work> micahg: i think we shoudl depend on xubuntu-icon-theme in -default-settings then so people can "upgrade" to ubuntu studio from vanilla and it will pull it in
<micahg> installing a default-settings package is a poor way to get US, usually we recommend installing the appropriate -desktop package, hence the idea to seed it
<scott-work> oh, yeah...sorry, wasn't thinking about the -meta file
<scott-work> i think most instructions i've seen has recommended installing all the individual packages actually
<scott-work> and i don't think any have said to install ubuntustudio-desktop
<scott-work> which would have made things probably a little less troublesome
<micahg> that's wrong too :)
<micahg> ubuntustudio-desktop should get you a working base US on top of vanilla Ubuntu
<micahg> if not, the seeds should be fixed
<micahg> now, base US is whatever you want it to be :)
<scott-work> okay, i'll add xubuntu-icon-theme to the ubuntustudio-desktop seed then
<scott-work> i'll follow up later tonight about which theme and icon theme names to use
<micahg> scott-work: do you want elementary-icon-theme as an option still as well?
<micahg> it's currently pulled in by ubuntustudio-icon-theme, if it's not needed, then we can drop that source, if it is, I'd suggest a recommends in the seed next to the xubuntu-icon-theme
<scott-work> micahg: basically what i want is what xubuntu is doing because i like the way it looks
<micahg> ok, so can I drop the ubuntustudio-icon-theme package after we upload the meta with the new icons and the default settings with them selected?
<micahg> you also have the ubuntustudio-look package
<micahg> hmm, maybe the icons should just go there
<scott-work> micahg:  some of the packaging choices seem unwieldy now, although i'm sure there were reasons at the time
<micahg> scott-work: ah, so, ubuntustudio-icon-theme is currently seeded, you'll want to replace that with xubuntu-icon-theme with a comment so people aren't shocked by it
<scott-work> micahg: okay, so the direct answer at this time is to replace ubuntustudio-icon-theme with xubuntu-icon-theme in the desktop seed and comment
<scott-work> then i also need to update ubuntustudio-default-settings and ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme with the correct theme and icon theme names
<micahg> scott-work: well, it'll be easy to drop the icon theme once this round of uploads is done, the rest can be cleaned up next cycle if you want (it doesn't seem to be too bad)
<micahg> yep, just give me a bug with all of them in there so I upload them together
<scott-work> hehe, right now i just want to fix lightdm so we can boot into the isntall so we can debug the -rt privliges and pulseaudio<->jack bridging :P
<scott-work> micahg: this will probably wait until tomorrow night as tonight i need to prepare for a work meeting that takes place tomorrow
<micahg> ok, well, if that has changes not affected by this, I can upload that separately and we can do another upload later with the icon changes
<scott-work> micahg: the changes that i made already should fix the lightdm issues (i believe), mainly they were:
<scott-work> 1. updating the postinst files to properly configure lightdm with the correct configuration file
<scott-work> 2. updating the path for the lidghtdm background image
<scott-work> 3. setting the default session=ubuntustudio
<scott-work> this should get the boot to progress to the lightdm greeter now instead of hanging
<micahg> ok, I can look at that in a bit then
<scott-work> i can also update the desktop seed for xubuntu-icon-theme (and comment) this evening as it is a minor adjustment and won't take much time
<scott-work> thanks again for your help micahg, i'm sorry i'm being difficult, again, we certainly wouldn't get nearly as much done without you
<micahg> huh, no complaints from my end :)
 * holstein high-fives scott-work & micahg !
 * micahg ^5 holstein
<scott-work> thanks you too
<scott-work> err
<scott-work> thanks, you two
<scott-work> work has been very difficult for a while and i'm really feeling pressure here lately and i'm a little fragile about stuff
<scott-work> i'm not going to get fired or anything, but there are situations here where i'm being asked to do too much and the stress is a little bothersome and i'm trying to address some of these issues
<scott-work> and the meeting at work tomorrow is one aspect of this
<scott-work> we've been also discussing hiring more people and replacing a few others because of quality issues
<scott-work> this will also address some of these issues as well
<scott-work> sorry if that was a little akward for anyone, but i wanted to expain a few things and why the meeting is rather important
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> holstein: i got an email from dick macinnins with some backgrounds for plymouth, lightdm, and desktop images
<scott-work> i'd call them a work in progress but they're okay right now
<micahg> scott-work: I can make the icon changes later tonight if you like so you don't have to worry about it?
<scott-work> not quite as thematically linked as i would like but it's a starting place
<scott-work> micahg: either way, changing the icon theme in the seed should quite literally be a five minute (or less) task
<scott-work> holstein: oh, and note quite a gray as i would have liked either ;)
<len1204> ScottL, and whoever else would like to know. mudita24 is in todays iso, good. however, it gives some interesting error reports.
<len1204> ubuntu-studio@ubuntu-studio:~$ mudita24 
<len1204> ALSA lib conf.c:1220:(parse_def) show is not a compound
<len1204> ALSA lib conf.c:1686:(snd_config_load1) _toplevel_:24:26:Unexpected char
<len1204> ALSA lib conf.c:3406:(config_file_open) /usr/share/alsa/pulse-alsa.conf may be old or corrupted: consider to remove or fix it
<len1204> using	 --- input_channels: 4
<len1204> 	 --- output_channels: 4
<len1204> 	 --- pcm_output_channels: 8
<len1204> 	 --- spdif in/out channels: 2
<len1204> It is telling us we have a bad /usr/share/alsa/pulse-alsa.conf file.
<len1204> I am wondering if this would have anything to do with our jack-pa bridging problem.
<len1204> That file does not "look" corrupted to me. I don't know what all the stuff means for sure but it makes sense.
<len1204> I am not sure if this should be filed as a bug against PA of mudita24.
<len1204> When I tried the last version of mudita24 when we were thinking of syncing, I did not get these errors.
<len1204> When I reboot, I will try it against an older (10.04 I think) version of US.
<astraljava> quadrispro: Maybe you don't have mudita hilights, so pinging you directly. :) ^^
<len1204> mudita24 seems to work ok.  Pulse does some funny things with it.. or the sound card.
<len1204> I was at first suprised to see all the monitor outputs with audio, but then realized that pulse was sending sound to all of those channels.
<len1204> I am running todays iso live so I haven't set the cards in the right order.
<len1204> but pulse is happy to send the sound to jacksink. Jacksink has 10 outputs so PA tries to make sense of what is there.
<len1204> it does a good enough job... after all the idea is to get sound out.
<ailo> mudita24 will only communicate directly with the sound card
<ailo> Just like envy24
<len1204> Yup.
<len1204> Running the off card as hw0 gets rid of all my jack-PA bridging problems.
<len1204> Jack goes to hw1.
<len1204> Wow, my ensonic card and PA->jack is really bad!
<len1204> 4214 xruns
<len1204> and climbing
<len1204> with no audio.
<len1204> 23:28:53.470 Client deactivated.
<len1204> 23:29:18.480 D-BUS: JACK server could not be stopped. Sorry
<len1204> Mon Feb 20 23:28:53 2012: Client 'qjackctl' with PID 3898 is out
<len1204> Mon Feb 20 23:28:53 2012: Stopping jack server...
<len1204> Mon Feb 20 23:28:53 2012: Client 'system' with PID 0 is out
<len1204> Mon Feb 20 23:28:53 2012: Client 'PulseAudio JACK Sink' with PID 3927 is out
<len1204> Mon Feb 20 23:28:53 2012: Client 'PulseAudio JACK Source' with PID 3927 is out
<len1204> 23:29:48.968 D-BUS: JACK server could not be stopped. Sorry
<len1204> Hmm, now I can't stop jack.
<len1204> Ok, kill -9 will stop anything...
<len1204> Installing, slide show still flashes at slide change... differently as the video card is different.
<len1204> Hopefully this will be corrected when we have a theme in place.
<len1204> There seems to be a problem with how ubiquity looks for sources of software.
<len1204> syslog shows: Feb 20 23:42:03 ubuntu-studio ubiquity: W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://a
<len1204> rchive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise-updates/multiverse i386 Packages (/var/lib/apt
<len1204> ckages)
<len1204> Feb 20 23:42:03 ubuntu-studio ubiquity: W: You may want to run apt-get update to
<len1204>  correct these problems
<len1204> But seems to install ok. Could be that it is looking at both the iso and the online repos
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-21
<micahg> ScottL: I can't upload ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme until we fix the icon seeding or it will break in a different way
<scott-work> micahg: ack
<scott-work> micahg: i will make changes for the icon-theme tonight, thank you for recognizing this and preventing another breakage
<holstein> knome: do i need to do anything else for the slidshow?
<knome> holstein, no
<knome> holstein, unless you want to add to the content
<holstein> knome: if its something you think i can handle, and you need help with, im in... otherwise, i was just checking in to make sure the content was working
<knome> worksforme
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-22
<ScottL> micahg, sorry, didn't work on packaging today, but i did manage to review some of the xubuntu packages
<ScottL> micahg, i have a better understanding now of which packages carry what, before i was thinking about the source package (i.e. the pixmaps)
<micahg> cool
<ScottL> micahg, i do not foresee anything preventing me from making the changes tomorrow (unless i can't find my pixmap source from the previous packages)
<micahg> sure, whenever you're ready
<ScottL> i'm worried about getting many, many things done, so i would like to get it done as soon as possible :)
<Len-1204> ScottL: I have started looking at the panel(s) 
<Len-1204> comments can be found at mailing list
<len> All:
<len> I have figured that we were missing an application that does for video what gcdmaster does for audio
<len> One of the people on the list has suggested DVDstyler. From the web page it seems to fill the bill.
<len> We have a video editor, but not something for making nice "profesional looking" video DVDs.
<len> Yes it is GPL and on a LP repo.
<len> Gotta go...
<holstein> len: http://www.dvdstyler.org/en/ reads great
<len> da/coast
<len> holstein: Ja, I thought so too. I would like to at least download it into 12.04 alpha and make sure it runs.
<len> I guess I should get some DVDs so I can try it out...
<holstein> yeah, i was testing/opening it in debian
<len> <holstein> how do you like it?
<holstein> len: it looks fine
<holstein> i didnt get to do anything enough to realy comment though
<len> Should we bug Scott to include it?
<holstein> its past feature freeze though
<holstein> we can ask
<len> Do we know if it has x86/amd64 ?
<len> We can call video workflow broken ;-)
<holstein> len: i thought i read it had both
<len> Then it is a bug fix
<len> There are still a bunch of apps that are supposed to be in yet, that are not, whats one more?
<holstein> :)
<len> I'm DL it now it pulls in DVDisaster?
<len> holstein: it does look pretty good. Certainly enough for someone who does videos of weddings for example.
<len> As any graphic can be used as a background, the fonts etc are endless anyway.
<len> The menus can be as deep as needed. What I don't see is a way of putting chapters in.
<len> That is have a menu that selects this 10min. or the next. But I have not really looked close.
<len> Actually there is a place to set chapter start time, default is 10 min. and it is possible to set up menus with chapters.
<len> ScottL: can we add DVDStyler to our video workflow? It seems to fill a void in the video workflow.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-23
<len> ScottL: In fact I would say that dvdstyler seems to do for video dvds what gcdmaster does for audio
<TheMuso> abogani: Now that linux-lowlatency is in Ubuntu, 500MB will not need to be uploaded every time, as all the Ubuntu/low latency package changes go in teh .diff.gz. However, using symlinks in the way you have between config files prevents the proper packaging of the linux-lowlatency source into the .orig.tar file and the .diff.gz.
<TheMuso> abogani: The changes I and TIm made do not increase the maintenance burdon, or at least I don't think so.
<TheMuso> abogani: We don't need d-i modules, because even if UbuntuStudio was built as an install disk only, which it no longer is, the generic kernel is used for all install CD images.
<Len-1204> ScottL and whoever else is interested. Re. panels.
<Len-1204> I don't know how much time it is wroth spending working on panels.
<Len-1204> A panel will not get imported to a user's session if they install a meta that calls for one, nor will one they have be altered.
<Len-1204> this is good... but bad too. Once the user logs into their session the first time the panel is created and kept in their own directory. Even the *.desktop files are copied into their home directory. So any changes made to the master file that describes the panel will have no effect.
<Len-1204> this means that we get one chance to get it right... and only if they are doing a fresh install. Unless we want to set up a script that goes from home directory to directory making changes.
<Len-1204> Not a good idea.
<ailo> User settings should never be overwritten
<ailo> So, if they exist, they should be untouched
<Len-1204> Just what I am saying.
<ailo> Some things can get a little screwed up I think
<Len-1204> We can make the main menu make sense, but doing anything special with the panel won't work well.
<ailo> Like when you install xfce on top of a regular Ubuntu install
<Len-1204> That too.
<ailo> The menu is probably the most important, right?
<Len-1204> I think so.
<ailo> When you install xfce on top of an existing Unity, you might get new default programs for file-managing, system monitor, and so on
<Len-1204> Scott was talking about using the panel for putting workflow menus in.
<Len-1204> I am thinking that will not work.
<Len-1204> because the panel belongs to the user's settings
<ailo> It's not easy to create a custom workflow that is generic enough
<ailo> I always say it's better to do that sort of thing in documentation
<ailo> Or, at least begin there
<Len-1204> What do you think of using dvdstyler in the video section?
<ailo> In Documentation you can decide on which default programs you would like to use for different things, but also mention alternatives. People are likely to use their own workflows, since they are almost always doing specialized things
<ailo> I have no opinion on dvdstyler
<Len-1204> Even two people doing the same job will do it two ways
<ailo> No opinions on video or graphics at all, in general. I don't know much about it
<ailo> A custom workflow can only serve as an example at best
<Len-1204> I was just thinking we are prety sparse on apps there and there is nothing for mastering dvds
<ailo> Seems like you have a good idea about that
<Len-1204> In that case we are better keeping the panel for app(let)s that get used for many work flows.
<ailo> Not many I've seen who are interested in the video part, so it seems a little neglected
<Len-1204> I thought so too.
<ailo> Great to have the -lowlatency in
<Len-1204> A panel can start the browser, terminal, qjackctl... I would like to get rid of the desktop icons...
<Len-1204> Yes!
<ailo> Is the live image working now?
<ailo> I haven't tried since it was not working again for a while
<Len-1204> It has been for a week at least. Still no rt in jack... but it is a good reflection of an install.
<Len-1204> so if we get rt in install the live should get it too.
<Len-1204> Same with the proper themes.
<Len-1204> Mudita24 seems to have a problem with some of the alsa files...
<Len-1204> This seems to be the latest version, because it worked fine when we tried the dep repo. before the first sync
<ailo> It comes directly from Debian Wheezy, just like all the other audio apps generally do, so it's about as new as they get
<Len-1204> Still no *.desktop.
<ailo> wtf, my internal audio has disappeared
<ailo> I'm actually on Wheezy right now
<ailo> pulseaudio interaction is a little weird
<ailo> Was trying mudita24, but don't see any problems here
<Len-1204> Ja, PA has to be played with to get it to work right with jackd
<ailo> There's no pa sink on Debian, so that seems to be purely an Ubuntu thing
<Len-1204> When I start it here I get:
<Len-1204> I can't start it here... this is off a week old iso.
<ailo> But, pulseaudio seems less stable than before. I get corrupted sound at times, and if I jerk around with jackd too much I might get some problem with d-bus that I don't know how to reinitialize, so I reboot
<Len-1204> When I was playing with my ensonic card with the PA->jack bridging the sound was not usable.
<Len-1204> it was fine on the same machine with the envy24
<Len-1204> I have the ensoniq for midi.
<ailo> I have a couple of cards with joystick ports that I can use to connect to a midi keyboard I have. Been a while, but I usually use one of them for that too
<Len-1204> I hear that the jack dbus stuff and the PA interacting with that is being played with just now.
<ailo> Will be nice if they get that to work seamlessly. 
<ailo> I'm also excited about alsa adding firewire support
<ailo> Just too bad so few usb devices work well on Linux
<ailo> That kind of puts Linux in a stoneage category, hardware-wise
<Len-1204> I haven't tried any... but have been thinking about getting something for this netbook.
<ailo> Most usb devices will only work in 1.1 mode
<Len-1204> I didn't get this netbook for audio at all.
<ailo> So, perhaps 48kHz, 16 bits
<Len-1204> That is what I heard
<ailo> Generic drivers
<Len-1204> two channels
<ailo> Yeah
<ailo> So, most stereo cards will work, but only as usb 1.1
<ailo> I've heard stories about generic usb 2.0 compatible devices, but I have no idea about which ones
<Len-1204> For me that would be fine... this would probably only handle that much data.
<ailo> There's one M-Audio 8 ch usb device with custom drivers
<ailo> I think something like M-Audio Fasttrack Pro, stereo, with mic preamping, high Z input, and even phantom power is a great device
<Len-1204> There seem to be some usb2 cards where the manufacture says they are usb2 standard, but we don't know if they do linux...
<ailo> Versatile as hell, but alas, only usb 1.1
<ailo> If it's usb 2 standard, it aught to work on Linux
<Len-1204> I would much more like to hear " I tried this on my linux box and it works great!"
<ailo> Like, M-Audio, they say it has usb 1.1 standard, without the custom drivers. Don't know if all manufacturers will mention this
<ailo> I'm only talking about M-Audio, cause I know that brand fairly well of course
<Len-1204> I have been happy with the delta 66 though, but its old now.
<ailo> I have one too
<ailo> I also have a LT1010
<ailo> They don't seem to age at all
<ailo> Was able to sync them too, so I had 12 ch I/O
<ailo> For a recording studio setup, they are still great. Would be my first choice, since they are so cheap
<ailo> I also have a 8 ch firewire device. Had to get something more mobile
<ailo> Sadly, few notebooks have good firewire chips, if any
<ailo> So, it's still very limited
<Len-1204>  I would buy mics first. I have a couple of nice dynamics, but would like a condenser too
<Len-1204> I don't (right now) record drums, so four lines in is enough.
<ailo> I got a couple of RÃ¸de K2's and some cheaper condensers as well
<ailo> Really a whole setup for studio recording
<ailo> Nice mic preamps as well
<ailo> Amps, drums, mics, guitar, bass, you name it
<ailo> Don't have my own place for it right now though
<Len-1204> I use the mic pres in my mackey (can't remember spelling)
<ailo> It's a good brand
<Len-1204> I started as a drummer, but that is the only thing I don't have now. I have keys guitars bass... some cheap drum pads...
<Len-1204> I play bass on the weekends so it is my main thing these days
<ailo> I also started out as a drummer. Don't get to practice a lot
<ailo> Hoping to build a house sometime in the coming years so I can have a studio where I live
<Len-1204> I would never buy one, but was given a classical guitar. I have been having a lot of fun with it. it has that sound I can't get with the other.
<ailo> A lot of nice sonor from an acoustic guitar
<Len-1204> I have the house and the space... not the time. My wife is doing school so I am the house mom.
<ailo> I'm probably not getting married
<ailo> But, that sort of thing is hard to plan
<Len-1204> It has its ups and downs
<Len-1204> She plays and sings too. Has been doing volumtere
<Len-1204> volunteer at the local hospital
<Len-1204> Mostly for older people. Shes studying nursing right now.
<ailo> I know a couple of nurse moms. Friends wives. Both studied to it as adults
<ailo> It's a decent job to have
<Len-1204> I will probably retire in a few years anyway, so she can pay for me to stay home and make music ;-)
<ailo> Are you that old?
<Len-1204> 51
<Len-1204> I can RT at 55 with an ok pension.
<ailo> So it's a good time to be considering that anyway. Me, I'm going to change the history of music :P
<ailo> I'm getting old enough to stop jerking around
<ailo> 34 years
<Len-1204> Pretty hard to do... its so commercial any more... more vocal gymnastics than any feeling.
<Len-1204> At least it is getting easier to sell your own stuff direct.
<ailo> There's a lot that can be done I think. Technology is not exactly used to the fullest right now
<ailo> I've done all kinds of music, and studied a lot
<Len-1204> I don't know that age matters so much... phil collins is still playing.
<ailo> He's good
<Len-1204> There is a lot of older players around
<ailo> I remember his old hits from the 80's
<ailo> Bruckner wrote his first symphony when he was 40
<Len-1204> Kim Mitchel is still about too
<ailo> While some die before their 40's
<ailo> Or, around 40, in Bruckners case
<Len-1204> or whats her name this weekend
<Len-1204>  or was it last
<ailo> I forge too. I don't remember names, but I know who you mean
<Len-1204> Lots of old guys playing their hits from glory days too
<ailo> I can't believe people like Chuck Berry are still playing
<Len-1204> D.P. is still doing smoke on the water
<ailo> Those guys are like convicts, who don't know what else to do in life
<ailo> They have their routines
<ailo> I've been listening to Judas Priest lately, a song called Judas Rising. Pretty new, from around 2005. Not exactly a new band either.
<Len-1204> If it doesn't make radio play it's probably good.
<ailo> My Uncle sent me a CD. I would have never listened to it otherwise. Don't know why that song caught my attention so much. Something haunting about it almost
<Len-1204> But yeah I remember them from late 70s early 80s?
<ailo> I think they begun in the early part of the 70's but didn't really grow big until bands like Iron Maiden became huge
<ailo> Judas Priest was actually one of the few original Metal bands, when Black Sabbath was more of a groovy, doomy rock band
<Len-1204> I'll have to go have a listen.
<Len-1204> Anyway, off to bed I guess.
<ailo> Good night
<Len-1204> For those who care... here is a modified panel: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/panel.html
<Len-1204> and some thoughts on why we should not have a second panel.
<len> scott-work: Just looked at workflows for video. I see we have qdvdauthor to be used for setting up video dvds. qdvdauthor has much the same functionality as dvdstyler (from a quick look at the web page)
<len> But, dvdstyler is in the repos, qdvdauthor does not seem to be there.
<len> Also, please read my notes on panels. There are problems with using xfce panels.
<len> I'm off to work now.
<scott-work> hi len , sorry i missed you
<scott-work> for the record, i have played with dvdstyler and i thought it was one of the best, easiest to use, and most functional dvd authoring software available to ubuntu
<scott-work> this was during last cycle or so, perhaps something is better now, but going with dvdstyler would be a good choice
<scott-work> this may come from left field...
<scott-work> do we want to support making physical dvd's?
<scott-work> i think most progressive people are looking at video on the web mainly
<scott-work> i'm not necessarily oppossed to physical dvd's or supprting them, i just want to ask the question
<scott-work> it's great to have that functionality, but do our users want it or are they asking for it?
<scott-work> len: i shoudl also point out that i appreciate your efforts on the menu and panel
<scott-work> i hope to have some other things resolved here shortly (work allowing), and then i will be moving onto the menu and panels along with the icons for the menu (not the ones _in_ the menu per se, as you noted this is handled by the *.desktop files)
<holstein> yeah, len is knocking it out !
<holstein> i think as far as "are our users wanting to make DVD's?"... i see that point
<holstein> i dont think we have enough video users to warrant a work-flow for video though personally
<holstein> that being said, i think making DVD's is one of those simple things that we could support our of the box
<holstein> anything we include be default can be used live
<holstein> a user could DL the iso, and create a DVD
<holstein> thats pretty cool...
<ailo> Beta 1 is almost here then..
<scott-work> ailo: yeah, and i wanted to resolve a few things before then :(
<scott-work> work is pretty crazy right now
<scott-work> but i think i'm leaving on time tonight so hopefully i get some of them done tonight
<micahg> scott-work: your meta package got removed along with xubuntu and anything else using lightdm-gtk-greeter
<scott-work> most unfortunate :(  but, of course, not unexpected
<micahg> I"m working on the greeter now, should have something ready in an hour or 2
<scott-work> micahg: will it need to go through REVU?
<micahg> yeah, actually, I'd rather just upload new meta packages now and fix the greeter later tonight
<ailo> This tells about a patch to make M-Audio Fast Track Pro get 24 bit operation http://joegiampaoli.blogspot.com/2011/06/m-audio-fast-track-pro-for-debian-linux.html
<ailo> A kernel patch
<ailo> It's an usb audio patch
<ailo> I've been reading this forum also. Some talk about getting both Fasttrack Pro and Fasttrack Ultra to work here
<ailo> Unfortunately, I don't have access to either device, so I can't do any testing. I do have access to an older version of fasttrack, but that might not help
<ailo> I should go past a music shop and do some quick testing with a notebook. Should tell us something
<micahg> ScottL: I'm going to reupload the meta for you now
<micahg> scott-work: ^^
<scott-work> micahg: thank you
<micahg> scott-work: I can't do this now, I have to upload the lightdm theme ans default-settings package, can it wait a few more hours?
<scott-work> micahg: i don't think i have much choice, do i? :P
<scott-work> micahg: but seriously, i think that is fine, i don't think meta updates are going to break anything at this point (except for something that is missing like lightdm for the iso build)
<micahg> heh, not unless you have another victi^Wvolunteer :), I'll be uploading ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme, and the meta, so whatever changes are needed, please make if you can, otherwise, I'll try to clean it up myself before upload
<micahg> I won't be touching it for another 7 or 8 hours probably
<scott-work> micahg: that's cool (i.e. 7 or 8 hours)
<scott-work> micahg: i'll get the Depends: xubuntu-icon-theme done before them
<scott-work> micahg: i'll try to get the /pixmaps/icons also added to the -menu file
<scott-work> i don't think there is anything else that i needed to do right now to fix the lightdm/theme issues right now
<len> Wow, the iso is 15% different from yesterday.
<scott-work> it's proably all the lightdm being removed :P
<len> We are 100 to 200 meg lighter alright
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-24
<Len-1204> Yup todays iso is not real usable. lightdm does seem to be there, but I never get x anything.
<Len-1204> The logo with the spinning band for a bit then nothing. I can get console, and can see the lightdm files in /usr/lib/lightdm. Don't know what else is missing though.
<Len-1204> Tomorrow is another day.
<scott-upstairs> micahg, before i do stuff that isn't necessary, should i be taking out Depends: lightdm-gtk-greeter on any packages?
<micahg> no
<scott-upstairs> micahg, okay, here is what i have done:
<scott-upstairs> 1. replaced 'ubuntustudio-icon-theme' in the seeds with 'xubuntu-icon-theme' and gave it a comment
<scott-upstairs> 2. added /usr/share/pixmaps to the ubuntustudio-menu package and modified the install file for /usr/share/pixmaps
<scott-upstairs> 3. added Depends: ubuntustudio-default-settings to ubuntustudio-menu because -default-settings is where it sets the applications menu icon
<scott-upstairs>  
<scott-upstairs> i feel a little dirty about #3 though
<scott-upstairs> ..
<scott-upstairs> oh, i haven't pushed to bzr yet thought, i wanted your confirmation i didn't forget something or do something stupid first
<scott-upstairs> ..
<micahg> scott-upstairs: if you feel that ubuntustudio-menu is part of the overall Ubuntustudio settings and *required* for the US experience, Depends is appropriate
<scott-upstairs> micahg, i do, but it just seems disproportionately inelegant
<micahg> why?
<scott-upstairs> it just seems disproportionate to force the installation of the -default-settings package, and all it entails, just to set the applications menu icon
<scott-upstairs> it's a minor issue to me, really
<micahg> oh, haha, I read that backwards :)
<scott-upstairs> :)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, but if you do not think i need to do anything else at this point i will push to bzr
<micahg> yeah, that's not right
<scott-upstairs> okay
<scott-upstairs> so have -default-settings depend on -menu?
<micahg> no
<scott-upstairs> i just worry that if someone were to install ubuntustudio-menu then they would be without the proper menu icon
<micahg> I'd suggest shipping the icon and configuration together in either package
<micahg> since this is more about branding, maybe in default-settings
<micahg> AIUI, the menu package is just extra enhancements
<scott-upstairs> micahg, it currently is in the -default-settings package
<scott-upstairs> so i'll remove the Depends: ubuntustudio-default-settings from ubuntustudio-menu package
<scott-upstairs> and i'll add the /usr/share/pixmaps into -default-settings as well
<scott-upstairs> micahg, after i complete this should i commit and push?
<micahg> yes, please
<micahg> oh, I see what you're saying, I think ubuntustudio-desktop should depend on ubuntustudio-default-settings
<micahg> that's where you force the branding
<scott-upstairs> no, i don't think that was what i was saying
<scott-upstairs> in bzr right now...
<scott-upstairs> 1. -default-settings sets the application menu icon
<scott-upstairs> 2. nothing currently has the /usr/share/pixmaps directory
<scott-upstairs>  
<scott-upstairs> i thought "why put the application menu logo in default-settings?  it really should be part of the -menu"
<scott-upstairs> but then if someone installs just ubuntustudio-menu then the icon maybe be copied to their computer but not set properly
<scott-upstairs>  
<scott-upstairs> that is why i thought of settings the -menu package to depend on -default-settings
<scott-upstairs> it just seemed very, very heavy handed to force all the settings from -default-settings to set the application menu icon properly
<micahg> !info ubuntustudio-menu
<ubottu> ubuntustudio-menu (source: ubuntustudio-menu): Menu for Ubuntu Studio. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.15 (oneiric), package size 6 kB, installed size 120 kB
<scott-upstairs> !info scott-upstairs
<ubottu> Package scott-upstairs does not exist in oneiric
<scott-upstairs> lol
<micahg> meh, I wanted the long descriptions
<micahg>  Installs a menu for Ubuntu Studio's use case. These menu has new audio
<micahg>  production and video production subsections for Sound & Video section.
<scott-upstairs> Description: Menu for Ubuntu Studio
<scott-upstairs>  Installs a menu for Ubuntu Studio's use case. These menu has new audio
<scott-upstairs>  production and video production subsections for Sound & Video section.
<scott-upstairs> oh, hehe
<scott-upstairs> you know?  i'm tempted to just put it all (including the -menu stuff) into -default-settings just like xubuntu does
<micahg> fine with me, less source packages = less things to upload :)
<scott-upstairs> you want me to do that now?  i can and fairly quickly i think
<scott-upstairs> or we can wait
<micahg> sure, just add a conflicts/replaces on the -menu package for -default-settings (conflicts since we're removing the package, not moving files)
<scott-upstairs> okay
<micahg> and remove it from the seed as well
<scott-upstairs> right
<scott-upstairs> i also see that the -menu package is currently depending on gnome-menus, i thought i saw some traffic that says we shouldn't do that?
<micahg> do you need something in gnome-menus?
<micahg> yeah, you don't need that anymore now that you're using Xfce
<scott-upstairs> we might have at one time, but i don't know that we do anymore
<scott-upstairs> okay, i will not add that to the -default-settings control file then
<Len-1204> scott-upstairs, doing the menu as xubuntu does would be nice. The do not expect their menu to be used with anything else but xfce.
<scott-upstairs> Len-1204, i'm not sure how our menu should be different, i'm not really very versed at menu stuff, i just look at what is done and hack it to work usually
<Len-1204> scott-upstairs, we have a stock menu with two patches on it. Xubuntu has a new menu from scratch.
<scott-upstairs> Len-1204, that certainly seems easier, how about we tackle this together when we restructure the menu?
<scott-upstairs> okay, micahg, here is what i have done...
<scott-upstairs> [seeds]
<scott-upstairs> 1. replaced ubuntustudio-icon-theme with xubuntu-icon-theme
<scott-upstairs> 2. removed ubuntustudio-menu
<scott-upstairs> [-default-settings]
<scott-upstairs> 3. added menu files
<scott-upstairs> 4. modificed default-settings.isntall for menu files
<scott-upstairs> 5. added Conflicts/Replaces: ubuntustudio-menu
<scott-upstairs> 6. removed Recommends: gnome-menus
<scott-upstairs>  
<scott-upstairs> does that sound correct?  should i add, commit, push?
 * micahg wonders if 6 was an action or lack of one
<micahg> but yes, sounds right
<scott-upstairs> when i was adding the Conflicts/Replaces: ubuntustudio-menu i noticed that the -default-settings control file also said Recommend: gnome-menus
<micahg> ah, ok, sounds good
<scott-upstairs> micahg, seeds (rev. 1309) and -default-settings (rev. 95) pushed
<scott-upstairs> sorry for the delay, wife got home from work and kids kept interrupting
<micahg> scott-upstairs: sure, no rush, I've still got to have dinner before I tackle this stuff
<micahg> scott-upstairs: BTW, it's better to do 1 commit per change, so removing ubuntustudio-menu should've been a separate commit from the icon change (it's good to bzr diff before committing to be sure that you've described the change properly)
<ScottL> micahg, i had forgotten, i'm sorry, however, i believe i shall remember next time
<micahg> ScottL: no worries, thanks
<micahg> as soon as I get webkit building, I'll upload these
<micahg> ScottL: FYI, Provides requires a comma separated package list like the other fields
 * micahg fixes
<micahg> ugh, now I don't know what to do about copyright...
<micahg> ScottL: I'm not really happy with the lightdm theme (maintainer scripts) or default-settings (debian/copyright) branches ATM, I made quite a few fixes to the default-settings branch, they're both only missing a thing or 2, but I'm too tired ATM to get this right
<len> Todays iso still looks small.. 
<len> scott-work: I am guessing it is still not ready to be tried.
<micahg> len: sorry, that's my fault, I wasn't able to get the packages uploaded last night
<len> No worries. Sleep is more important than this.
<micahg> I'll get it sorted over the weekend so there's a beta candidate on monday
<len> Are the missing apps being included at this time?
<micahg> missing apps?  well, currently, there's no ubuntustudio-desktop, default-settings, or lightdm-theeme
<len> Ja, I tried yesterdays iso... no gui, just console.
<micahg> ScottL: one thing I need from you is copyright information
<micahg> len: same thing yesterday, these binaries were removed from precise accidentally
<micahg> ScottL: we need to know the copyright of the images you added to the default settings package
<len> micahg, I figured something like from the irc logs.
<micahg> I debated doing a no change rebuild of the old versions, but as it was already broke, I didn't see the point
<len> It would be nice to combine the settings and theming as xubuntu has.
<micahg> yeah, we did a little package consolidation with menu moving into default settings (we need to update the copyright for that stuff as well)
<len> Scott was asking for help redoing the menus... so I will take the changes and put them into one file instead of three.
<micahg> well, for beta 1, let's just get everything working, them we can go back to consolidating :)
<len> Oh yes. I just make the files, Scott adds them or not as he likes.
<CFHowlett> themes?  I maintain that this has strong potential as the default wallpaper...  http://shitsukesen.deviantart.com/art/Fake-Ubuntu-Studio-Screen-shot-173257515 
<CFHowlett> or perhaps this one  http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/unusual/beautiful-ubuntu-ray-traced-wallpapers
<holstein> http://parker1.co.uk/eternity/screenshots/eternalstudio.png is my fav so far
<holstein> i think the etched ones are knd of dry
<holstein> kind*
<holstein> i feel like thats where the desktop is headed though... with the faded out no color icons we are getting
<holstein> i installed crunchbang and the icons in the try are the old-school ones with color
<holstein> i like it :)
<len> I'm not too picky, they are all better than I can do.
<len> I would like a bit more contrast in the theme though.
<holstein> yeah, at least more contrast
<len> I find it hard to figure out which window I am typing into...
<CFHowlett> holstein   fyi, I updated the logo...
<CFHowlett> http://spreadubuntu.org/files/Branded-eternalstudio-wide.png
<len> It looks a bit cleaner.
<CFHowlett> I'd also submit these for consideration  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
<CFHowlett> love that etched metal look!
<scott-work> micahg: i will get it tonight, hopefully shortlly after getting home i'll be leaving in moments)
<scott-work> micahg: interestingly, these are wallpapers that we have been using already, so it might be that we didn't have copyright file in the previous package :/
<scott-work> micahg: also, this has me wondering if i am including them in the default package then why do we also need a ubuntustudio-wallpaper package?
<scott-work> the last question is probably something stupidly simple and i'm too brain dead from work to realize it
<scott-work> at the moment
<scott-work> hold on, which images did i put into default-settings?  wasn't that the icon images?
<scott-work> not the wallpapers?  why the hell was i thinking it was wallpapers?
<scott-work> *shrug* going home, i'll suss it out there where i can really look at stuff and drop/leave the work stuff in my head at work
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-25
<Guest21943> hey I was wondering if I could obtain the latest alpha/beta of precise for installation so that I could help test, as I am going to re-install anway.  is that possible?
<jussi> bah. 8 mins. missed them
<Len2> I was just looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
<Len2> At the bottom it mentions this thing called "AWN"
<Len2> Huh? Can people not just write it out instead of some letters? what does that mean? it just looks like a panel to me.
<len> Anyway, are we still pursuing an "AWN only" concept? or are we just looking at getting xfce working for us right now and see where things are going.
<len> If AWN is a program, and we are still thinking going that way some time later... is there a ref I can go to to find out more?
<len> Sorry for the switch of logins... that was where I happened to have the browser up.
<holstein> hehe...http://awn-project.org/ seems dead
<len> Right... Thanks for the answer.
<holstein> when i used AWN, it required 3d
<holstein> +, i just personally hate the dock thing
<holstein> i feel like it would compromise stability for a slick look that most folks probably wont appreciate in the end
<holstein> seems like there was a lot of talk about the look and feel of ubuntustudio not too long ago
<holstein> and i personally think that was the strongest thing it had going fo it
<holstein> for*
<holstein> it felt so modern... and zen almost
<holstein> anyways... ill get behind whatever we can make happen!
<holstein> im just saying.. i dont see anyone wishing they had a dock
<holstein> but, it looks slick, and any little thing we could do drastic like that would really set us apart from main ubuntu and xubuntu
<holstein> not that we need to detract users from either place, but if we are providing a whole different experience, i can see that as a benefit
<holstein> even if that experience is far from what i want, and something that im going to nix right out of the box
<len> holstein, I was thinking I could make a dock/menu/panel thingy that has buttons like that... 
<len> each button would be a selection of apps for a type of work.. sort of megga workflows
<holstein> len: i bet you can :)
<len> in other words each button might represent a few related workflows.
<len> when the button is pressed the whole thing is replaced by a set of buttons that go to apps for the super workflow.
<holstein> sounds similar to what ScottL was talking about
<len> holstein does that make sense?
<holstein> i think there are some mock-ups?
<holstein> maybe just text on it
<len> I would do it in tk/tcl... because I think it will be around forever. and even if the version changes the scripting will still work for old apps.
<len> Text would be real easy. Icons would take more time as they are new to me.
<len> I think I could make it configurable without having to recode...
<len> holstein I am thinking however that this would be 12.11 ish stuff.
<holstein> len: cool!
<holstein> i like the idea for sur
<holstein> e
<len> I am also (slowly) working on "TikTOC" to replace gcdmaster. I am not at all happy with what ardour puts out.
<len> holstein, do you know how to put toc files out in ardour3? I can find it in ardour 2 but not 3
<holstein> len: nah... i havent used it enough
<holstein> lsd over in #opensourcemusicians would know
<holstein> or las in #ardour
<ScottL> len, len-nb , when we work on the menu i would encourage you to use a bzr branch owned by you under your launchpad account, this will make merging the code together much easier
<len-nb> ScottL i can't do much for the next few hours but when I get back I will see how to do that
<ScottL> no rush, i still need to get micahg some information about the recent set of change, but i would like to knock the menu change before the end of the coming week
<ScottL> even if it isn't "perfect", we still have made progress and can tweak it later
<ScottL> i heard a really good saying that i'm trying to embrace; "don't let perfect stand in the way of better"
<ScottL> reading the backscroll reminds me of something...
<ScottL> i had thought about a package for ubuntu studio that would be "helpful" for the user
<ScottL> it might be an "extras" package or similar
<ScottL> it might set up some directory structures for users to help organize audio or video projects
<ScottL> it might even have the awn dock in it with work flows
<ScottL> just something that i thought about one day
<ScottL> but i don't know that i'll want to put too much effort into docks or panels for work flows right now
<ScottL> two reasons for this...
<ScottL> first we need to finish the work flows and document them in the wiki better (along general work flow)
<ScottL> second, i would like in the next two or three cycles *really* see about making work flows more transparent to users
<ScottL> this might be through gladish for audio
<ScottL> or even scripts ala ralph on the mailing list for audio
<ScottL> but the point would be to make it easier to start or restart an audio (this automation might include video, graphical, or photography work flows too) project
<ScottL> but we can flesh this out later, right now we need to get through this cycle
<ScottL> and probably a few things will not get done this cycle and will slide into next cycle
<ScottL> and i hope next cycle we can refine the UI , theme, etc but mainly focus on work flows and documentation
<jussi> ScottL: ping?
<ScottL> jussi, pong
<knome> ScottL, dong
<ScottL> knome, ding
<knome> ScottL, any chancee of getting the cards to printer yet?
<astraljava> ScottL: jussi is in Barcelona, most likely partying hard right now (Saturday evening, after all). :D
<knome> ohai astraljava 
<astraljava> o/
<knome> meh.
<knome> i'm getting sub-60% wlan signal here at the floor on front of the living room window
<knome> don't ask why i
<knome> 'm here.
<knome> and, damn eeepc keyboard
 * knome just set up pidgin on eeepc :)
<astraljava> A real one?
<knome> hah. not really. but i do have a bag which has the text PIGEON in it
<len-nb> knome, I feel lucky if I get 50%... the ap is downstairs.
<knome> len-nb, i'm about 3 meters away from the ap, no walls between
<knome> well, maybe 4m
<len-nb> Ouch! Mine is an old wap11
<len-nb> in b mode
<knome> linksys wrt54gs here
<knome> though it must be the eeepc that sucks
<len-nb> Netbook?
<len-nb> No drive deal
<len-nb> I'm trying to remember what I have heard about them... not sure
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_PC#Eee_700_series
<len-nb> Thanks.
<knome> i have the 4G, one of the first
<knome> 4G meaning it has 4G drive space, not 4G mem
<knome> ...
<knome> but i'm not really complaining.
<knome> this is fine
<knome> i couldn
<knome> 't even afford another one.
<knome> not in the money sense, but in the sense i'd just play with it all day long
<knome> and i don't really need another yet, so...
<len-nb> Ja, that was the one I thought it was.
<knome> mm-hmm
 * knome should be sleeping now too. but i'm stuck playing gnomine on this damn eeepc :)
<len-nb> I have installed Ustudio on a 16G usb stick ok, but it took up about 4G, so not much room for playing with.
<knome> 4G is tight. but it's manageable. i run xubuntu, but i removed a lot of software at install time
<knome> i have about 800M free
<len-nb> I kind of wonder what the advantage is, the cheaper aspire I have has a drive in the same space. 
<len-nb> Does it have better battery time
<knome> well, it's not too good
<knome> but remind you, this *is* one of the first really small ones
<len-nb> I don't know that I could use a keyboard much smaller... and not having a KB is what turned me away from the pads
<knome> well, tbh this keyboard is a bit small for me
<knome> but you get used to it
<knome> and i'm not writing novels with this
<knome> and i have a pretty decent writing speed too, i think
<len-nb> So I have found... this one has become my main use computer
<knome> :)
<knome> i just have to prefer my desktop :)
<len-nb> My desktop is downstairs... we don't heat downstairs.
<len-nb> But my desktop has a nice soundcard.
<ScottL> knome, sorry haven't really tried any printers yet
<knome> mine too, but old
<knome> ScottL, np :)
<ScottL> just been busy, work especially, did 55 hours last week, probably more this week :(
<len-nb> ScottL: Do you want me to setup the menu as I have it, or change over to one config file first?
<knome> len-nb, but my desktop has two 24" monitors which handle the heating...
<len-nb> What I have works fine.
<knome> ScottL, too bad :(
<ScottL> len-nb, let's get one config file working first, if you don't mind....we'll start KISS
<len-nb> Knome, I just have an lcd thing, doesn't even put out as much heat as the cpu.
<knome> len-nb, :)
<ScottL> i trust everyone knows that acronym
<knome> ScottL, did you mean: "that band"
<knome> ;]=
<len-nb> ScottL, Ok, I will do that. I will have to touch a few different things to do that though.
<len-nb> I am assuming I would put it in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio?
<len-nb> Actually /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus
<ScottL> len-nb, i'm not exactly sure, but you might look at xubuntu-default-settings as a template, but i do think that is right
<len-nb> Yes that is where I got the idea from
<len-nb> ScottL there is a small startup script that sets the path to the menustuff we have in /usr/share that will have to be removed.
<len-nb>  I'm going to reboot and play...
<ScottL> len-nb, is the script in the xubuntu stuff or from our original menu?
<knome> ScottL, so you're *really* ripping us off, aren't you??
<knome> ;)
<len-nb> just for ours, Xubuntu doesn't anything like it.
<ScottL> len-nb, i thought so, i'm not sure that is needed anymore, especially if we are using the xubuntu (i.e. the proper) model for menus
<len-nb> knome, not really, just using xubuntu as a lesson in using xfce right
<ScottL> knome, i am afraid so
<ScottL> len-nb, well, i've used their stuff a LOT during all my changes
<len-nb> Ja, but like I say, they have the best xfce model in town.
<len-nb> ScottL, do you want me to set up panels while we are at it? (mainly I mean get rid of it ;-) )
<len-nb> Back in a minute...
<CFHowlett> Will the US 12.04 beta be available next week?  Couldn't seem to find an official US release calendar...
<knome> ScottL, i'm just kidding :)
<ScottL> CFHowlett, we follow the same as ubuntu
<CFHowlett> ScottL   thanks for the confirmation.  Looking forward to testing the new build!
<knome> Len-1204, thanks for the compliments ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-02-26
<Len-1204> knome, you are welcome, our menu files are a bit of a mess...
<knome> :)
<Len-1204> I think I will actually import the xubuntu file and edit/rename it.
<Len-1204> Because our menu file has as much "funny" stuff as it does, I will probably comment it a bit more though.
<Len-1204> It is handy having xubuntu on one drive and US12.04 on the other.
 * knome is off for now
<knome> see you later :)
<Len-1204> ScottL, the menu file belongs in ubuntustudio-default-settings. How do I set up a bzr branch... first and second how do I set up a package that will not interfere with the settings package?
<Len-1204> I could take over the menus file.... but it might be nice to leave it around as backup.
<Len-1204> Anyway, gone for a minute to reboot. I think I have the menu done.
<Len-1204> ScottL, I have removed the start file for menus as well as renaming the merge file.
<Len-1204> after rebooting we seem to be using the one file in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus
<ScottL> Len-1204, we can put the menu files into whatever package we want, we have it currently in the ubuntustudio-menu package and xubuntu has it in xubuntu-default-settings
<ScottL> to streamline the process, i would suggest we just keep the menu in ubuntustudio-menu for now
<ScottL> we always have the revisions in launchpad if we need to revert to a previous version
<Len-1204> ScottL, Ok, what do I need to do to have access?
<Len-1204>  I think I need to reboot to a permanent account so I can do an ssh key thing.
<Len-1204> Time to reboot
<ScottL> len-nb,  my suggestion would be to use bzr to pull the branch for ubuntustudio-menu
<len-nb> Pull?
<len-nb> ScottL, i thought I was putting stuff in it...
<ScottL> aye, you are going to push, but not before pulling
<len-nb> I have to get ssh stuff figured out first...
<ScottL> because this is a version control system you want to pull the bzr branch from the main trunk first
<len-nb> So they know I am who I am... whoever that is.
<ScottL> no problem, but i'll still type this because i will probably be away from irc for a bit with the family
<ScottL> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu says to 
<ScottL> Get this branch:
<ScottL>     bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu 
<len-nb> Ok,
<len-nb> Does it end up on my system then?
<ScottL> yes
<len-nb> Or my own branch on theirs
<len-nb> ok
<ScottL> you will have a local copy of the code that you can change
<ScottL> then you will push it to your own branch under your launchpad id
<len-nb> ok
<ScottL> also, you will probably want to set 'bzr whoami' as well
<len-nb> ok
<ScottL> and also 'bzr launchpad-login' or similar
<len-nb> I have a login with them already
<len-nb> or is this different?
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadStepByStepInstructions is an okay tutorial
<ScottL> bzr whoami 'Your Name email@example.com'
<len-nb> I may have that already too. It spits that out when I login
<ScottL> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html#publishing-your-changes
<ScottL> this shows the launchpad login (which i think allows you to push to launchpad)
<ScottL> and right below that section is the pushing to your own branch as well
<len-nb> I could ask more questions, but it is prolly best if I work through the tut.. and stumble though
<len-nb> I think you have given me enough.
<len-nb> I'm going to try setting up the account and branch under my account first then pull and push.
<len-nb> Anyone... I got two different ways of making an ssh key thrown at me
<len-nb> when I try to make my own code branch it asks for rsa and the tutorial says dsa.
<len-nb> what is the difference? and dose it matter which kind I use?
<len-nb> s/dose/does
<len-nb> bzr pull seems to be telling me I have to have a user called ubuntustudio-dev
<len-nb> Ok, I used branch. I have a copy on my drive.... busy messing it up
<len-nb> Then I guess I put it in my own branch and tell you it is there.
 * micahg waves to ScottL
<len-nb> ScottL: https://code.launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+junk/ubuntustudio-menu
<len-nb> Off to bed
<saidinesh5> hehe
 * ScottL waves back at micahg 
<ScottL> micahg, i have the copyright file, but i have a concern
<ScottL> the original image (start-here.svg) was in the ubuntustudio-icon-theme package....checking on version
<ScottL> ubuntustudio-icon-theme version 58 in bzr
<len> ScottL, good morning
<ScottL> there is a copyright file but i can't tell who should be attributed to the image
<ScottL> good morning len 
<len> I don't know if you saw things or not. I have only one question though.
<len> does it matter who the owner on the files is? does it matter what group does it matter what permitions?
<len> LP doesn't show any of that.
<ScottL> i have not had to worry about that, len, so i suspect it does not
<ScottL> as to why...i can't say thoughn
<len> Makes sense as it is all copied by root.
<len> Ok menus is done then.
<len> ScottL, you will do the copy from where it is?
<len> I don't know if it matters, but the copyright is set up to the person who first made the package... I don't know that there is anything in there that is original ;-)
<len>  Maybe a few *.directory files
<len> Does the copy right have to be a person? If it could be the project that would mean less worries.
<len> All, The Meetings page lists the "next" meeting as last week. Is there one this week and where?
<len> Speaking of the Meeting web page... the top still says first sunday of the month which last week was not. Should the web page be changed?
<ScottL> len, i'm not up to date on how copyright files should be handled
<ScottL> len, re: meeting - nobody is keeping up with the meeting wiki page and we had decided to do every 2nd week for meeting but that has fallen through mostly so i don't know how the meeting announcement should go at this time
 * ScottL is off to the store, this is my weekend that i'm taking care of a lot of yard work
<len> OK, I off to do stuff too.
 * astraljava notices our meetings aren't effectively no more.
<shnatsel> meeting? what? where?
<astraljava> *sigh* bi-weekly formal, and alternating informal. But yeah, seems no one cares anymore.
<astraljava> I shouldn't complain, though. I'm going to drop my contribution significantly, anyway.
<micahg> ScottL: yeah, I'm not sure either, that was part of my hesitation in uploading originally
<ScottL> micahg, there was a single copyright file with those images, i can make an authors file explaining that i created the images based on a previous image that is one of the other authors listed and even link to the original version of the code
<ScottL> micahg, shouldn't that take care of the copyright (and author) file(s)?
<micahg> yes, as long as we know who created and owns the copyright and what license's they're usable unser
<micahg> created is less important than owns the copyright
<ScottL> well, the original authors file listed a lot of authors but doesn't attribute to a particular image
<ScottL> however, the copyright appears to be the same for all of them
<ScottL> i'll be happy to license my work under the same (after i make sure it isn't something like MIT or other crazy one) to make it simple
<ScottL> micahg, with ^^^ allow us to move forward then?
<micahg> I think so
<ScottL> okay, is there any reason that i can't update (or pull) the branch from bzr and add this?  (i.e. did you have other changes)
<micahg> I pushed everything up IIRC
<ScottL> okay, doing this now
<micahg> I won't be able to upload for a few more hours, so no rush
<len> ScottL, is the menu going to be included? or not yet? Maybe one thing at a time.
<ScottL> len, i would say let's keep the menu in the menu package
<ScottL> len, i would like to include it but i don't think we have time to get it by monday
<ScottL> micahg, i have pushed to default-settings to bzr
<len> I have left in the same package ScottL I think we will all be happy to have something that has X again right now.
<ScottL> len, i don't think it's the menu package that is causing the loss of x, it was the lightdm configuration (which was in the -default-settings package) that was causing problem, i believe
<ScottL> len, i'm sorry, i completely misread your statement
<ScottL> disregard my previous statement
<len> No prob. I'm going to finish what I have for panels. I want to have a clear drive for installs again this week.
<len> I will do two sets. One with a second panel as on my web page and one without so it doesn't haunt us...
<len> In both cases the clock will be replaced with orage. but look the same.... unless otherwise requested.
<len> The main reason I wanted to be here for the meeting today was to see if there was a firm thought one way or the other about the second panel.
<len> BTW I don't care if you use my panel setup (either one) I just spent some time on it and feel I shouldn't just toss it.
<len> The panel stuff would be part of the settings package as it all ends up in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce (i think.
<len> I can email the few files, or set up a branch in my login. Your choice...
<len-nb> ScottL, Just checking through things to see what I could pull to base panel settings on.
<len-nb> ScottL, found the settings package, but looking through things it looks like the menu files have already been merged into settings.
<len-nb> Warning, if you grab my branch for menus and install it beside the current settings I think things may end up broken again.
<len-nb> So it looks like ubuntustudio-settings and ubuntustudio-menus are no longer compatible.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-18
<len-1304> zequence, just reading about isolated cores (The "isolcpus" kernel parameter) for setting aside a cpu core for a task or thread. Then a thread can be assigned to a core set aside for it.
<len-1304> I am also reading that IRQs can be bound to a core as well.
<len-1304> I don't know how easily certain kinds of tasks could be isolated. Run most of the OS on core 0 and the real time stuff on core 1.
<len-1304> I know jack has 3 threads, of which one needs rt and higher priority. I wonder how well other audio app isolate threads.
<len-1304> It seems almost all of the processor chips these days have at least two cores... even the lowly atom.
<len-1304> Lump|AFK, Asterisk seems to have a jack driver.
<zequence> len-1304: The interaction between jack and PA is not flawless for me. Initial start of jack worked, but retrying it didn't work very well
<zequence> PA froze
<zequence> needed to kill it
<zequence> Actually, this was only when having PA use jack sink
<zequence> This worked, but it's still buggy. Start rhythmbox. Start jack. Set PA to use jack sink and source. Stop jack (PA sets to use your onboard card). Start jack (PA is still using onboard, but Rhythmbox uses jack)
<zequence> Different applications in PA are able to use different interfaces
<zequence> I think I'd like to have the PA module automatically change to jack when starting it, and change back to whatever was default when stopping it
<zequence> len-1304: I'm going to make a patch for the module. Feature freeze is coming up March 7th. We should think about what else we want to have uploaded until then
<zequence> I want it to set jack by default
<zequence> With the fixes to both jack and PA, I think this release will be tons better just because of that
<zequence> Ah, the uibiquity plugins
<zequence> or plugin
<zequence> I want that to happen too
<zequence> But, I won't have time until Fri, Sat
<smartboyhw> Hey scott-work 
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, zequence and I are planning for a seperate release team for Ubuntu Studio...
<zequence> scott-work: Yes, it seemed like the best way to do it, since smartboyhw is managing that pretty well. What do you think?
<scott-work> can you tell me more about it?
<zequence> scott-work: Just that we make a team called -release which would instead of -core get the privilege to do the relase stuff
<scott-work> zequence: that sounds like a good plan
<zequence> and add smartboyhw to that team. He's the most active on that side of development, and is probably the best person to oversee that
<zequence> scott-work: smartboyhw started working on a wiki page for release procedure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleaseProcedure
<smartboyhw> zequence, I was copying the link too:P
<smartboyhw> scott-work, so can zequence start creating the team?
<zequence> The team is created, and I asked for the privileges to be moved over to that team
<zequence> smartboyhw: Again, great work on the wiki. Would you mind if I did some editing just to make it easier to read? I might do that at a later date, if you don't beat me to it.
<zequence> Just me being pedantic
<zequence> Not a priority. There is plenty of stuff to improve on the wikis we have
<smartboyhw> zequence, no worries:)
<zequence> len-1304: Another difference in graphic cards could be not only which driver, but what type, AGP, PCI or PCIe. 
<scott-work> smartboyhw: zequence: sorry, busy at work. creating the team sounds like the right thing to do
<scott-work> zequence: what do you need me to do to get the privliges moved to that team?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, zequence has already made the team and requested stgraber in #ubuntu-release to change things
<smartboyhw> scott-work, nothing needed for you to do for us:)
<scott-work> ah, good, good. and i presume that smartboyhw is already added to the team, no?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yes
<smartboyhw> I am added
<scott-work> oooooh, good work on the wiki page, smartboyhw . that's looks really nice :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :)
<len-1304> zequence, assuming you are talking about PA 3.*, I have found that if there is only one audio interface turned on in PA that jack becomes default when it takes the device from PA.
<zequence> len-1304: Actually, I find that applications started after jackdbus is running will automatically use jack. Even when PA is not set to use jack
<len-1304> For me even those started before
<len-1304> I have audio going through pa to the IF, start jack, the audio pauses then goes through jack. Stop jack it pauses then goes back to the IF
<zequence> The PA master volume doesn't have any effect on those applications that use jackdbus when PA is set to use another interface
<len-1304> I hadn't tried that. That is a bug. If you report I will try it later and confirm.
<zequence> len-1304: It's not really a bug
<zequence> Since PA is set to use another IF, the master volume only affects streams going to that IF
<zequence> In pavucontrol you can actually set each device to use it's own interface
<zequence> This you can't do with the regular PA settings Gui which you get with Unity and Gnome3
<smartboyhw> yeah
<len-1304> The master volume should affect whatever stream the audio gets sent to. I think the PA people would call that a bug
<zequence> len-1304: I heard from David that they are planning some changes on that whole thing
<len-1304> But I am not sure if that is PA or some other part of the system. I will play later.
<zequence> len-1304: Consider that the master volume makes settings for a specific card.
<zequence> Not for all of them
<len-1304> There are still some changes in git that are not in the current release.
<zequence> like what?
<len-1304> being able to set the bridge channel number.
<zequence> It's there, but I haven't got it to work
<len-1304> It's in the docs but not release.
<len-1304> It is in the source/sink but not in the jackdbus detect.
<zequence> You're right
<len-1304> I asked them about it, that was what I was told.
<zequence> It's in the git tree that Ubuntu is using as a source for the package, so if they do an update before feature freeze, it'll get included
<len-1304> you can use pactl to find out what the current modules can do.
<zequence> or rather, it's a bzr branch
<len-1304> Anyway when it does get into release, I would suggest setting channels to two as default.
<zequence> Yep
<len-1304> It would be what people would expect, what most people would need, and use a lot less resources.
<zequence> actually, we might need to request a patch
<zequence> Don't think they will update to anything else than official releases, unless they're fixing a bug
<zequence> I'll make a patch and ask David to add it
<len-1304> k
<zequence> I'll also make one to set the channes to two for the module
<smartboyhw> zequence, len-1304 try this v
<smartboyhw> http://rafalcieslak.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/vmodsynth-1-0-released/
<smartboyhw> By cielak (which zequence should have saw him in UDS-R getting the winner of the automated testing writing competition)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I see you are making a package out of it
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes helping him a bit (and to practise my packaging skills apart from the Kubuntu ones)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I would suggest you make sure no one is already doing that for Debian, and if not, sending it there
<smartboyhw> zequence, no Kubuntu packages are ALWAYS -0ubuntu1.... I got people watching over me:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes, but this is not a Kubuntu package
<zequence> it belongs in Debian Multimedia team
<smartboyhw> zequence, I know.... I might persuade him to put it into debian one day...But normally his software doesn't get into the main archives (Debian or Ubuntu)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Why don't you put it there?
<smartboyhw> zequence, because he doesn't want to and I don't have a debian system:P
<zequence> Saves you the trouble of adding it to Ubuntu, and also makes sure it is spread through out the Debian based environment
<zequence> Why not?
<smartboyhw> zequence, I didn't say I want to add it to Ubuntu (nor did he)
<smartboyhw> We just want to keep it in a PPA that's all
<smartboyhw> I wasn't sure if he will maintain this project for long also
<smartboyhw> Since he is using it as his university homework
<smartboyhw> s/homework/project/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Since he is using it as his university project"
<smartboyhw> Thank you kubotu
<smartboyhw> LOL
<zequence> If it's GPL, it isn't really up to him anyway. I haven't tried it, but if it is useful, it should be packaged for Debian, no doubt
<zequence> smartboyhw: Does it support jack?
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will ask the dev
<smartboyhw> zequence, NO it doesn't support JACk
<zequence> Yeah, just read about that
<zequence> this makes it a lot less usefull in deed
<smartboyhw> grrrr right?
<smartboyhw> zequence, alright let me try to play with debian packaging
<zequence> astraljava: Re: music to have on when working by the computer - I've been listening to a lot of Aphex Twin. He's done a lot of tracks, but too few to have on permanently. 
<zequence> If there were only more of them, I wouldn't need anything else
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you'd like to do packagin for Ubuntu Studio, I'd recommend packaging linux-sampler, and other packages that aren't part of the Debian distro
<zequence> smartboyhw: falktx already does that, and you could look at his packages as examples, even if they aren't from scracth
<smartboyhw> zequence, well ok let me finish calligra for Kubuntu first:P
<zequence> scratch*
<smartboyhw> zequence, ok. Also I need to do some iBus packaging for our Hong Kong people:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, linux-sampler isn't in Ubuntu?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Preferably, we try getting those into Debian, if possible. But, if not, then at least it would be good to keep a official PPA for stuff we can't include (may be we can't even keep it in a PPA - we'd need to investigate).
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> linux-sampler is GPL, with an addition, which makes it non-free
<zequence> The addition is for protecting against using it in commercial hardware samplers and such, but it causes problems
<zequence> It's the only sampler that can load gig files on Linux. One of the only real samplers around
<zequence> not bug free though, from what I've experienced. At least not when used with qsampler, an interface for it
<zequence> Debian has all of the packages linux-sampler depends on, except for the actual sampler server
<smartboyhw> ok
<contrapunctus> lmfao, kubotu XD
<len-1304> zequence, there is a new version of PA again today.
<zequence> len-1304: Ok. Let me check. 
<len-1304> It showed up in my daily update.
<len-1304> (for 13.04)
<zequence> len-1304: I was just looking at the changelog (apt-get changelog pulseaudio). Didn't seem like there was much added
<zequence> A quick bugfix to the package itself
<len-1304> Not the master mixer then. (I still need to play with that.)
<zequence> Made by the same guy who got the lowlatency kernel uploaded initially
<zequence> Who also used to hang out here until fairly recently - themuso. I met him briefly at UDS
<len-1304> I remember him yes.
<zequence> len-1304: I don't think how the master level works is a bug. Sort of like the master level on a mixer doesn't affect a bus level
<zequence> Only if the bus goes through the master
<zequence> In this case, the bus can be made to bypass the master, and connecting directly to another IF
<len-1304> Ya, but I need to play with it so I have a better understanding of what you mean.
<zequence> len-1304: Don't know if you need two devices. Perhaps only one will do, if it's your delta device
<zequence> You do have the usb device, so that should do
<len-1304> I have two PCI cards.
<len-1304> an ice1712 and an ensoniq.
<len-1304> but I have the ensonic turned off in pulse.
<zequence> I have three. builtin, hdmi from the graphic card, and the delta. This builtin is strange in that I'm not able to use with jack for some reason
<zequence> Works fine with PA and alsa. Very weird
<len-1304> I have found that having pulse connected to a second card while it is also connected to jack causes coupling problems.
<len-1304> My internal IF is turned off in bios.
<len-1304> (the ac97 is too noisy for me.)
<zequence> It is something that you can't always choose, as is the case with my hdmi. And, the stuff should of course work with any card configuration
<zequence> Haven't done any testing with disabling my other devices
<len-1304> It works ok but having pulse see another card while it is bridged to jack affects the latency.
<len-1304> The minimum latency becomes that of the highest latency device in my experience.
<len-1304> (YMMV)
<zequence> In my case, I have two devices that don'w even start with jack
<zequence> The third one is my delta device. On certain machines, I've been able to run it at 16 f/p, but only with jack. Not with additional jack apps
<zequence> Works now too
<zequence> on this machine
<zequence> If I run jackd from the command line, I don't get xruns. But as soon as I open an application, it gets messy
<zequence> I'm even able to run jackd with PA at 16 f/p, but with loads of xruns
<zequence> Maybe MBs are just more different from each other than one would think?
<len-1304> I can run at 16 f/p as well, but just about anything can make an xrun. I can run at 32 for hours with no xruns with audio running through it.
<len-1304> MBs are different. But more than that I think each one needs to be gone over before using it for low latency audio.
<len-1304> bios settings make a big difference
<zequence> len-1304: But, if you have the other device enabled, you can't run jack at 16 f/p?
<zequence> I'm thinking this is because of the module, as it might make jack crash at low latencies
<zequence> As some applications do, when pushing it
<zequence> oh, I'm talking about the PA module, of course
<len-1304> I haven't tried that here on this machine. but on my netbook the internal audio only goes down to 128f/p and when I have it enabled my USB IF is the same but if I turn it off in pulse then I can get the USB device down to 64.
<zequence> len-1304: But, is that only when you use the PA module?
<len-1304> Yes.
<len-1304> Only when bridging pa-jack
<zequence> I'm having a weird bug on PA. I can't select an input device. The mixer crashes. It seems confused. None is actually selected
<zequence> len-1304: That's the part I can't really figure out. Why a device that jack is not trying to run would affect jack lowest possible latency. Other than the PA module having problems getting in sync and making jack crash
<len-1304> Ok, I enabled the ensonic and can still run at 32f/p
<len-1304> I should see if I can run the ensonic in jack at 32...
<zequence> 32 should work for most devices, but 16 is a different story
<len-1304> a few more xruns with the other device connected though.
<len-1304> With jack running the ensonic pulse is running 10% less cpu because it is only sending two channels to jack instead of 10.
<len-1304> unable to start the ensonic at 16.
<zequence> That would be highly expected, yes
<len-1304> Ok, jack starts the ICE at 32 with pulse connected to both jack and the ensonic, but there are xruns all the time.
<len-1304> with the ensoniq turned off in pa I could run for several minutes at least before the first xrun
<zequence> len-1304: Try without the PA module. 
<zequence> you could just run jackd from the terminal: jackd -d alsa -d hw:n -p 16
<len-1304> unloaded module - no xruns.
<len-1304> cpu is really low too :)
<zequence> I think what happens with PA is that the module is a part of PA, and if it has more stuff to do, then it will work less well with jack
<len-1304> but that is to be expected
<zequence> Another problem may be hardware interrupts, if you're using both PA and jack in paralell, but without the module
<zequence> I don't see however how PA would affect jack latency directly. If jack uses a device, PA is not
<zequence> And PA is strictly a jack application when connecting to jack. And some apps are really lousy at low latencies
<zequence> That's my theory, anyway
<len-1304> I think pa defaults to a lower latency than jack and so with the bridge it has to keep up with jack's latency.
<zequence> len-1304: So, PA is able to run at 16 f/p on your onboard?
<zequence> While jack is not?
<len-1304> no
<len-1304>  I mean the bridge module has to run at the same  latency.
<len-1304> pa doesn't
<zequence> The module may be connected to jack, while PA is using another device as output. The other device works flawlessly, while only jack gets audio droupouts
<zequence> Yeah
<zequence> The module is like a jack application
<zequence> But, it's also depending on what PA is doing, I guess
<zequence> So, if PA is busy, that might mean less resources for the module?
<len-1304> PA takes about twice the cpu as jack at any latency with the bridge connected.
<len-1304> PA seems to use almost nothing compared to the module.
<len-1304> with the module unloaded pa is using 1/5 what jack is
<zequence> Can't say I know much about jack coding, but perhaps the module could be made a lot more efficient. David has often said it's more of a beginning towards a real tool
<len-1304> 16 frames may run without xruns, but soon as I start guitarix... 1000s of xruns before the gui even shows up. doesn't slow down after either.
<zequence> yeah, I haven't heard of anyone being able to run applications xrun free at 16 f/p
<zequence> Often jack used to crash for me, if I tried
<zequence> next release of the kernel skipped one part of the SRU process, as they were in a hurry, as it seems
<zequence> the part being verification testing. Something I don't do, since generic already does it, and it's the same kernel anyway
<len-1304> for 12.04.2?
<zequence> both Precise and Quantal
<zequence> having problems making the patch. PA build dependencies are unmet. libjack is the wrong version
<zequence> ah, I need to install it manually
<zequence> it removes some stuff
<zequence> libjack0, that is
<zequence> Ah, I'm too tired. It's past midnight. Just writing the damn patch description is more work the generating tha patch
<zequence> heh, the last kernel update fixes quite a bunch of bugs
<zequence> This one was particularly interesting, bug #1095315
<ubottu> bug 1095315 in linux (Ubuntu) "[USB-Audio - FastTrack Pro, recording] No sound at all" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1095315
<len-1304> I think that was why I didn't buy the device.
<len-1304> I could see the the ports but get no sound through
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-19
<len-1304> Hmm, video toys are just as expensive as audio toys: http://www.mini-box.com/Spectra8-video-capture-card
<len-1304> Inputs only.
<smartboyhw> zequence, good afternoon
<zequence> smartboyhw: Hi
 * smartboyhw wonders why zequence has Pinged timeout and didn't return:(
<smartboyhw> Welcome back zequence :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Thanks. Damn ISP trouble
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh no
<astraljava> zequence: Right, I haven't listened to Aphex Twin, will check out one of these days. Thanks for the recommendation.
<Len-nb> zequence, version  Mudita24 release 1.1.0 has all the fixes for profiles in it.
<Len-nb> Has it made it into debian multimedia yet?
<Len-nb> http://mudita24.googlecode.com/files/mudita24-1.1.0.tar.gz is the src code, I don't think Tim does packages.
<zequence> Len-nb: I'm too busy to try get it in. Not a big prio, I guess, but it would be nice to add it
<zequence> I'm still working on the PA patch. Need to build PA and test it first. Later tonight
<Len-nb> NP
<zequence> Right now I'm stressing through hundreds of pages. Got an exam coming up on Friday
<Len-nb> do that first
<zequence> Feature freeze is less than a month aways, so there isn't much time left to add stuff
<zequence> I should have a look at our blueprints this weekend and make a list. Don't think there's all that much critical stuff to do, really.
<len-1304> I'm still waiting for our -settings package to be released.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, hasn't it been!?
<len-1304> No, micahg has been busy getting 12.04.2 ready for xubuntu.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, er it is released for days now:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will be testing 3.6.11-rt30 on my computer tmr, built and installed it now:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: As we don't have any particular tests now, it would be interesting to see differences between -lowlatency and the -rt you built
<zequence> smartboyhw: use this, but extende the time if you want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CyclicTest
<zequence> and make sure to add CPU stress
<zequence> There are tools for that too, but it works pretty well just to start applications, jerk with the graphics a bit
<zequence> A classic thing to do is to compile a kernel while testing the kernel
<zequence> cyclictest is a part of rt-tests in the repo too, as you probably know
<smartboyhw> yep
<zequence> smartboyhw: What graphic card do you have?
<zequence> I managed to make the patch to the older PA 3.0
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-20
<micahg> len-1304: sorry, let me try to get that in tomorrow
<len-1304> micahg, not a problem, so long as we get it in for 13.04 :)
<micahg> heh, feature freeze is soon
<len-1304> At this point the feature is all ready added, the settings not being finished is a bug...
<micahg> yeah
<Len-nb> zequence, running jack at p16 with guitarix running and  no xruns
<Len-nb> No X either :)
<Len-nb> GN
<smartboyhw> zequence, hey I got 3.6.11-rt30 running in my laptop now:)
<smartboyhw> zequence-s ^
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, What kind of graphic card do you have? 
<smartboyhw> zequence-s : ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4350
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Have you tried installing fglrx on that system? Don't know how difficult that would be on a realtime kernel
<smartboyhw> zequence-s : OK
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Would be nice to know what kind of results you get from cyclictest, in different conditions. At least comparing -rt with -lowlatency would be nice 
<zequence-s> if the results are bad on both, I would suggest trying to install fglrx
<zequence-s> for nvidia drivers, you needed to modify the rt patch a little
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Did you build headers too?
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes I think...........
<zequence-s> headers would be a separate deb package, if you built locally
<smartboyhw> zequence, I did build and install it
<zequence-s> that's needed of course, if you add proprietary drivers, since you need to build a kernel module for them
<smartboyhw> zequence-s sadly I can't install it now, immmediate packaging fix for another thing needed
<zequence-s> there's no hurry
<zequence-s> I'm thinking we could look at the possibility of including also a rt kernel into ubuntu repo for next release, or the one after that. Not a prio, but certainly many will like to have it
<zequence-s> not to replace -lowlatency, but to add another option
<smartboyhw> zequence-s I will help with -rt kernel for sure
<smartboyhw> zequence-s : my Ubuntu membership application is coming in 55 min.
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Ah, nice.
<zequence-s> you should have no problems
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Congrats! Piece of cake
 * smartboyhw eats it
<smartboyhw> GREAT!
<zequence-s> Len-nb, smartboyhw just became an Ubuntu member
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I just became an Ubuntu member!!!!!!!!!!!
<scott-work> smartboyhw: WOW! congratulations!
<scott-work> that is exciting
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :)
<smartboyhw> Yay shiny Ubuntu member cloak!!!!
<smartboyhw> Nice one in #kubuntu-devel
<smartboyhw>  Riddell has changed the topic to: "Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Raring Alpha 1 Released | Packaging TODO: http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas | Upgrade QA : http://kubuntu-qa.dyndns.org/ | congratulation smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> LOL
<Len-nb> smartboyhw, Congratulations.
<smartboyhw> Len-nb, thanks :)
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: [Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02 LTS is released: ISO- http://goo.gl/FEAxP Notes-http://goo.gl/29QaS | Ubuntu Studio 12.10 is released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/ | congrats smartobyhw]
<scott-work> there, not to be outdone ;)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, 1. No need to and 2. Wrong spelling:P
<smartboyhw> I don't seriously even know why Riddell did that
<scott-work> arghh
<smartboyhw> We don't even have that when zequence became member
* scott-work changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02 LTS is released: ISO- http://goo.gl/FEAxP Notes-http://goo.gl/29QaS | Ubuntu Studio 12.10 is released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/
<smartboyhw> scott-work, thanks:)
<scott-work> :)
<zequence> I wonder what age the youngest ever member has been
<zequence> smartboyhw might be a member of a small club
<zequence> small == few members
<zequence> scott-work: smartboyhw applied to be a member of the -dev team, but since he's not actively working on anything related to our source, I find it hard to motivate his inclusion in that team
<zequence> Nothing to do with competence
<zequence> It would be different if he had goals or responsibilities that touched our source
<zequence> We have a different sitation than the desktop orientated flavors, who all have upstream packages to maintain
<zequence> Len-nb: the module-jackdbus-detect channel config works
<scott-work> zequence: agreed about smartbow (or anyone in a similar position) and the -dev team
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-21
<astraljava> Len-nb: Interesting forward on the mailing list, thanks! Gotta read more about it on a better time. Might be something worthwhile for me to investigate further.
<smartboyhw> zequence, do you have a blog?
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Hi
<smartboyhw> zequence-s, hi. Do you have a blog?
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, About you applying to the -dev team, I talked with Scott about this, and we both agreed that since you are not actively working on any Ubuntu Studio source, we could not motivate including you to that team. It's not that we think you are not competent. It's just following logic. And I would prefer not only you work on the source, but you have goals with the development of the source, that corresponds with Ubuntu Studio goals.
<zequence-s>  It's really the same for all teams. If you do work that relates to the team, it is logical to admit you.
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Nope. I don't blog much
<smartboyhw> zequence-s: I know....... 
<smartboyhw> zequence-s: Just wondering whether you can add a blog to Planet Ubuntu
<zequence-s> It's not important which teams you are member of. It's much more important what you are actually contributing. this is why you don't see Len apart of many teams. Not even the Ubuntu membership team
<zequence-s> I don't feel any need to start blogging just now :)
<smartboyhw> zequence-s: LL
<smartboyhw> s/LL/LOL
<zequence-s> smartboyhw, Currently I feel very happy about your contribution on the QA side, and the work you do there is worth a lot to Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> zequence-s: Just refuse it:P
<smartboyhw> Hiyas scott-work 
<scott-work> HI smartboyhw 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-22
<Len-nb> Lump|AFK, I found a weird one. IHU is a sip phone client, it has a jack driver... so I thought I would try it. Turns out it is jack in but alsa out   Say what?
<Len-nb> I am noticing that a lot of these apps have not been updated by the dev for a few years, though the ubuntu/debian maintainers have made bug fixes to keep them working with new kernels etc.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Did you have any problems setting up your blog at planet.ubuntu.com?
<smartboyhw> zequence, no at all
<smartboyhw> I posted one about ISO Testing in Ubuntu Globaal Jam
<smartboyhw> Next one: /me being first to put an device onto the porting WIP for Ubuntu Touch:P
<zequence> I get a Permission denied
<zequence> ..when trying to get the bzr branch
<smartboyhw> zequence, whoa? You shouldn't
<smartboyhw> zequence, are you using the correct ssh key?!?!
<zequence> of course
<zequence> I don't have any problems with other LP stuff
<smartboyhw> zequence, that's weird.... Extremely weird
<zequence> Actually, I am. Well, I'll manage it
<zequence> I think it's enough you change the comment in your public ssh file to have it not work
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> Damn Blender has released 2.66 and we are still in 2.63a :P
<zequence> There's no hurry. Unless, there are some severe bug fixes that we need to get in
<smartboyhw> zequence, I don't think so.
<zequence> But, I guess we could think about maintaining packages for Ubuntu Studio, for those that we'd want to keep very up to date
<zequence> I'm not doing it, but if you'd like to, that would be fine with me
<zequence> The important thing is that whatever bug fixes, or changes we make, say to the original debian packages, we make sure to send those upstream as much as possible
<smartboyhw> zequence, the trouble is: I don't know about debian side of packages........
<smartboyhw> I know the Ubuntu side of these
<zequence> smartboyhw: they are more or less the same
<zequence> Ubuntu packages are debian packages, after all
<smartboyhw> zequence, and I don't have a Debian system 
<zequence> smartboyhw: You don't need one
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh?
<zequence> Say you change the build in debian/rules, because you have a good reason to do that. If we have a local Ubuntu package, based on a Debian one, we'd suggest the same change into Debian
<zequence> If the package we have is very different from a Debian package, that would be different
<zequence> If the only reason to package for Ubuntu is to keep something up to date, then what you do is you get a Debian package, and update it
<zequence> When suggesting a change, you'd get the git source for the Debian package, and make a patch, and send it to the right mail list
<zequence> or make a Debian bug, and put it there
<zequence> it's not very difficult
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> I passed the A+ exam, btw. 
<smartboyhw> zequence, what's the A+ ?
<zequence> It's a basic certificate for administrating computers
<smartboyhw> zequence, good
<zequence> It's an American thing, but also international
<zequence> Makes you feel like a parrot, studying for it
<smartboyhw> :)
<zequence> I'm doing Network+ next. Then, Linux+, Security+ and maybe some other +
<smartboyhw> zequence, where is that exam?
<zequence> Some Cisco probably. Maybe even Windows certificates
<zequence> smartboyhw: In my home town
<smartboyhw> zequence, I mean link
<smartboyhw> wbsite
<zequence> http://certification.comptia.org/home.aspx
<smartboyhw> zequence, I thought of one thing: the -rt kernels release per 2 linux releases (like 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8) That will cause problems to maintain the kernel in the future
<zequence> smartboyhw: The solution is to always use the current or the older kernel
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: It doesn't absolutely have to be the current one
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> But, we should make it compatible with Ubuntu kernels
<smartboyhw> zequence, so what if 13.10 uses a 3.11 kernel and does that mean we can only use 3.10 ?
<zequence> That means, proprietary graphic drivers, and other things that require kernel modules should work
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> The biggest problem with -rt is not just to build the -rt. It's to apply the ubuntu patches, and the apply -rt
<zequence> I haven't ever tried that, and it could potentially become messy
<zequence> It might mean you have to manually create a new patch
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<zequence> There may even be things that are in conflict between Ubuntu and -rt
<smartboyhw> zequence, that's more agreeable
<zequence> I mean, even when all the patches have been applied, there could be a conflict
<smartboyhw> zequence, I know
<zequence> There could be serious problems
 * smartboyhw thinks this is increasingly difficult
<zequence> Like people breaking their computers, that kind of problems (worst case scenario)
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep . 
<zequence> Many people expect -rt to be default, but I guess they haven't broken any hardware
<zequence> Like, I did once
<zequence> This was on Fedora. Two hard disks failed at once
<smartboyhw> zequence, eh
<zequence> It is experimental. Not everyone understands this
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<zequence> Doesn't mean it can't be done
<zequence> It would be good to understand the patch well enough to know what could potentially cause problems
<smartboyhw> zequence, but it will be difficult than the easier -lowlatency
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will try to see if there will be any problems with Ubuntu kernel with -rt 3.8
<zequence> with -lowlatency we basically don't need to know anything about kernels
<zequence> scott-work: Good day to you, sir
<zequence> scott-work: I'm just trying to make some kind of draft of the mission statement
<zequence> scott-work: under progress. Is it any good? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/MissionStatement
<Len-nb> zequence, The CNC people are thinking of going away from the RT kernels to something else. (not on this machine, I'll look downstairs)
<Len-nb> They already tell the kernel to only use one of two or more cores and then use those other cores for their RT stuff.
<Len-nb> I don't know if any of our audio apps are up to figuring out they should run on a particular core though.
<len-1304> The new thing is called Xenomai.
<len-1304> (well newer)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-23
<Lump|AFK> heya len-1304 
 * Lump|AFK is goint to try jacking the latency tonight
<Lump|AFK> i will let you all know how it works out
<Lumpy> nini all
<len-1304> Ya me too.. GN
<smartboyhw> zequence, did you get Planet Ubuntu set up?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-02-24
<smartboyhw> Hello zequence_ :P
<smartboyhw> Why having an underscore?
<zequence> hi smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> zequence, hello:)
 * smartboyhw is playing with Ubuntu Touch Porting
<zequence> Happens when the connection quits, and the old nick is left frozen at the freenode server
<zequence> smartboyhw: Cool
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> I'm trying out Win 8. Username: Bill Gates, but I guess it might have been more approrpiate using Steve, whatever his name was
<smartboyhw> zequence, bah
<zequence> I'm required to know Windows for some of the course I'm doing
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh OK.
 * smartboyhw thinks Windows is bull****
<smartboyhw> Sorry:P
<smartboyhw> That's why I started using Ubuntu for good
<zequence> It's a proprietary operating system. And when it comes to companies, very few of them will choose an OS based on their personal preference
<zequence> If I am to work for in IT, it won't be up to me which OS I'll be using
<smartboyhw> zequence, that's correct.
<smartboyhw> And possibly 90% of them use Windows
<zequence> I'd think as far as desktops go, here in Sweden, probably 100% use Windows
<zequence> Different on the server side
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<smartboyhw> zequence, did you have a chat with duanedesign from the beginners team?
<zequence> smartboyhw: No. who is that?
<smartboyhw> zequence, he is restarting the beginners team mentorship program
<smartboyhw> And I said that I'll be interesting to help mentoring people to Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> That's good
<smartboyhw> zequence, but then:
<smartboyhw> <duanedesign> Their is another new mwmber who is very interested in Ubuntu Studio and helping meentor people into contributing to Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> ok. Who is that?
<smartboyhw> zequence, the problem is: I don't know!
<zequence> Does it matter?
<smartboyhw> zequence, well at least we can tell him where to find us...
<zequence> smartboyhw: I would however like for whoever wants to help with US development, contacts us directly
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> The Ubuntu beginner thing is good, but won't help with US specific stuff
<smartboyhw> zequence, what is meant in that team is that they would go for the beginners team then tell them which things they wanted to help. The mentors will bring them to suitable places to help.:)
<zequence> Can't say the win8 UI is exactly the most intuitive I've ever seen. I can see why many people would have problems with it
<smartboyhw> zequence, yepp
<len-1304> zequence, some companies use windows just because they are "sue-able". (good luck doing it though)
<len-1304> This is what the company I work for means when they say a product has support.
<len-1304> smartboyhw, zequence what program do we have that does the same thing as krita?
<len-1304> I know we didn't include it because of libs, but we have crossed that bridge since then.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, it's more about graphics
<smartboyhw> Digital Painting
<len-1304> Ya I know. I am just saying now that we pull in zde libs anyway, is it better than what we do have?
<len-1304> *kde
<smartboyhw> len-1304, hmm nice question. I'll answer you that tmr.
<len-1304> speaking kde libs and programs that use it... k3b gets pulled in by kdenlive. Which some people wanted, the only problem seems to be that it does not work well with wodim, the poor cdrecord replacement.
<len-1304> I thought I just didn't use it right and so after killing two dvds I stopped using it. But I have since heard from other people that it works fine with cdrecord
<len-1304> These are some things it would be nice to get Scott's view on as he does more graphics than I do. Maybe Mish too. I think I will send an email to the list.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, who's mish?
<len-1304> one of the guys who has contributed icon artwork
<len-1304> He is not here all that often
<zequence> len-1304: It does seem like krita is a well used application
<len-1304> Would it be best as an addition or replacement for something?
<zequence> problem is we haven't gone through each workflow properly to do that sort of estimations
<zequence> Ideally, we'd have one person per worfklow who did that
<len-1304> Just sent email to the list suggesting that.
<zequence> Ok, let's see what people think
<len-1304> It would be great if we had one person for each WF
<zequence> Doesn't really require any skills other than user skills for that workflow
<len-1304> Yup, for any of them.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-02-17
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-menu builds clean even with out switching to link. Guess I already fixed that :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: did you ever get release rights for our packages?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not yet.
<OvenWerks> ok, i'll ask micah... maybe I'll look to see if I should do anything else first.
<holstein> is this something we need? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/sound-switcher-app-ubuntu
<holstein> i dont even know if it'll work in XFCE, or if we need that with pulse, but its slick, and looks like what i suggest folks use pavucontrol for
<OvenWerks> holstein: so far as I know unity uses a different kind of applet for its panel.
<holstein> :/
<OvenWerks> Also, this applet is not available except through ppa.
<holstein> who knows if it would ever get in the repos anyways
<OvenWerks> It would actually not be that hard to make an applet in python to do the same thing
<OvenWerks> My only problem is I would want to do so much more with it :)
<OvenWerks> The KDE sound applet on first glance, looks nicer than pavucontrol, but I found I ended up installing pavucontrol anyway.
<OvenWerks> It would not be impossible to make an app more like qjackctl with an in/output connection graph
<holstein> well, we might not need one.
<holstein> i like pavucontrol
<holstein> i think mostly its the folks who mis-understand what studio is for.. 
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> or missunderstand what PA is for.
<holstein> yup
<zequence> holstein: OvenWerks: Unity uses appindicator, which should be supported on most DEs these days
<zequence> OvenWerks: holstein: ubuntustudio-controls has that as one of its features, switching audio devices on the fly
<zequence> (the one I need to finish before thursday, or so - all though we should be able to get an exception)
<cub> Hi zequence, about the merge to add espeak and speech/dispatcher. I thought it would be merged when you approved_
<cub> hmm wrong keyboard layout, there was supposed to be a  ? above. :)
<zequence> cub: hmm, never done that before. Seems I need to do it manually. Will try it now :)
<zequence> cub: I was unable to merge, so had to get your changes and commit them in one commit.
<zequence> ..since there were changes to the seeds after your changes
<zequence> But, the changes are in now, anyway
<zequence> cub: Ah, LP understood, so I guess it was done proprely
<cub> cool
<cub> you think it will be included in the next build then?
<cub> so I could start testing the installation
<zequence> cub: Should be, yes
<cub> I hope to be able to attend the community council meeting on Thursday but need to verify that my GF is not working that evening
<OvenWerks> Sorry, I should have done the merge when I was working on it.
<OvenWerks> I have spent so little time on Studio this cycle.
<cub> it's been hard for everyone to find the time I think
<cub> which is unfortunate since it's the LTS but what can you do
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-02-19
<cub> I can't get the trusty 64-bit to boot. Anyone else had problems lately or should I continue investigating my files and usb?
<zequence> cub: linux-lowlatency, most propably
<zequence> cub: Try editying the grub boot parameters
<cub> can I check that?
<cub> aha
<zequence> cub: When in the GRUB menu, press "e"
<cub> right now I can't even the the i386 to install the boot loader on the usb .:/'
<zequence> if you see "threadirqs", remove it
<cub> ok
<zequence> cub: Also, add "nothreadirqs"
<cub> alright, will make another run
<cub> thantks
<cub> hmm still no go on trusty iso
<cub> Never mind, I entered nothreadirqs wrong the first times
<cub> First test of running the installation with Orca seems to be a success. I will do a full installation asap to see if orca is starting up after the reboot as well.
<cub> but so far so good. Should be ready for FF now.
<cub> zequence, Ardour2 is still in the iso, I thought you removed it?
<cub> "1397. By Kaj Ailomaa on 2014-02-12
<cub> removed ardour(2), as ardour3 is the new and preferred version"
<cub> also, zequence OvenWerks should I put the live session test on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ as a success even though I had to do "nothreadirqs" to get it to boot?
<cub> doh, since I zsynced earlier today, the daily for 19th was released..
<zequence> cub: No need to do that for dailys
<zequence> cub: The bug is being worked on, and actually - nothreadirqs should have been already put in, will investigate
<zequence> cub: Before the release of beta, we need to make sure it's alright. I think everything seems working now, as far as booting and logging in, except for the kernel
<cub> I'm having trouble zsyncing the daily
<zequence> cub: I had trouble too before. Could be a problem with the site
<cub> most likely
<cub> I noticed some icons that was not showing in the menus. I'm not sure if anyone usually looks at that?
<zequence> cub: For me, some of them were too big. That's correct. I forgot about that
<cub> also if I think something should be moved to another workflow, do I file a bug or just bring it up in here?
<cub> yeah some was quite big and some had a default icon, black screen with a red circle and cross
<zequence> cub: a bug is never wrong, but I guess since we are so small, we might as well just do it
<cub> it was just Entangle that is placed in Graphic Design, but I would suggest to put it in Photography
<zequence> The menu is a bit custom. It needs to be tweaked
<zequence> We can do that afterwards. Before User Interface Freeze
<cub> yup
<cub> I was thinking about Krita though. It's a Beta 2 release in there
<cub> I haven't used it so I don't know how "beta" it actually is
<zequence> As long as it works. We need to smoketest all the apps
<zequence> Bugs can be fixed even after FF, so no problem there
<cub> I ran most of them on the live session
<cub> it's just that Krita.org list 2.7 as latest stable and since it's a LTS release now?
<zequence> cub: AFAIK, it's synced from Debian, but perhaps since it's a KDE app, that works differently, don't know
<cub> or will the proper 2.8 version be updated automatically eventually in the 14.04 release?
<zequence> cub: No. Debian Sync Freeze is in effect
<zequence> Someone needs to either sync, or package manually
<zequence> And after feature freeze, you can only do that to fix a bug
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-02-20
<holstein> !install
<ubottu> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - See also !automate
<cub> zequence, OvenWerks are you attending the council meeting in 38 minutes?
<elfy> cub zequence - just so you are aware - I've not got anywhere with writing stuff for you yet for testcase - r/life and hassle with vbox
<elfy> and - I noticed cub mentioning autotestcase in your CC call - not a great deal going on with that from our end at the meomen
<elfy> moment
<zequence> elfy: np. Once we're done making changes (sometime after FF) I will go through the important bits, do some smoketesting, and think about how to put that into a system
<elfy> zequence: well if you do want to run through how we do what we do - just ping me 
<zequence> elfy: Great. Thanks
<zequence> ubuntustudio-live uploaded. But, won't be available just yet. Not sure how that works
<zequence> Once it's in the repos, I'll remove ubuntustudio-live-settings and replace it with ubuntustudio-live, which is our new ubiquity package
<cub> elfy, I mentioned it as I've been interested in taking a look at it now that FF is done
<elfy> cub: ok - just letting you know the state of play for us :)
<elfy> cub: if you do want to talk to someone about autopilot and xfce at all - lderan is the one to talk to 
<cub> aha cool
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/AutopilotTesting
<elfy> if you're interested in what we've managed to get working - was updated today
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-02-17
<zequence> Uploaded the fix for lp:1211933. My first ever upload, yay
<zequence> bug:1211933
<knome> :)
<knome> bug 1211933
<ubottu> bug 1211933 in ubuntustudio-live (Ubuntu) "mkinitramfs blows up on casper dependency" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211933
<zequence> Right
<zequence> Hope I didn't blow anything up
<knome> we'll see in a few days i guess :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you can spot anything we should change in vivid, apart from seeds, it would be nice to fix it before Thursday. 
<zequence> Yeah :)
<elfy> zequence: re planet ubuntu and http://ubuntustudio.org/category/planetubuntu/feed/
<elfy> that needs a sponsor - you happy to do that? 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-02-18
<zequence> elfy: A sponsor?
<knome> zequence, every blog that is listed in the planet needs to be a ubuntu member blog - and in the case of team blogs, it will need to have one ubuntu member as the "sponsor" who oversees that the content is suitable for the planet
<zequence> Ah. Sure, elfy. I can be the sponsor.
<DalekSec> According to the one thing you still use xscreensaver, so bug 1406825 might be relavent.
<ubottu> bug 1406825 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "xscreensaver complains "This version of xscreensaver is VERY OLD!"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1406825
<elfy> zequence: ta - at some point I'll deal with that 
<zequence> DalekSec: Thanks
<DalekSec> Sure, though as you can see not uploaded yet.  Hope it helps.
<elfy> mailed the list - but it appears to be hung up somewhere
<elfy> the trusty point release is tomorrow if anyone has time to do some testing 
<elfy> I did what I could 
<OvenWerks> elfy: if it boots, the SW all seems to work for 14.04. I run it as my daily machine.
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> OvenWerks: I don't actually use it so wouldn't know
<OvenWerks> I figgured.
<elfy> alos tested in a vm and never even bothered to see if sound there works :p
<elfy> but I got installs done in the end, and half the live session stuff 
<OvenWerks> Sound works for me, but sound is so diverse it could fail for someone somewhere.
<elfy> heh
<OvenWerks> I have a new MB but I still run PCI sound cards
<elfy> understand that - but I have enough trouble getting pavucontrol working without mucking about with jack :)
<OvenWerks> I run both together.
<elfy> I bought a cheap one for the new machine the other day, wish I'd not bothered - had more trouble with it than the really old one 
<OvenWerks> I have been using jack as the sound device for pulse for almost a year now.
<elfy> like really old ... 
<OvenWerks> The old ensoniq pci was one of the best consumer grade cards. I use mine for midi along with an ICE1712 card.
<elfy> name does ring a bell 
<OvenWerks> I am still in stereo land, I have not worried about surround at all here.
<elfy> heh
<elfy> I'm 53 with knackered ears - I can tell stereo from mono usually :p
<OvenWerks> I'm a year older, my ears sing with no aural input sometimes.
<elfy> right - so it's not *just* me then :p
<OvenWerks> I wish I could say it was the music, but I think it was my screaming kids
<elfy> there'll be an echo in here if we're not careful :D
<elfy> though there was a fair old bit of motorhead in my past
<elfy> not quite old enough for seeing zeppelin or deep purple 
<OvenWerks> I'm more ARS/April Wine/Chilliwack kinds of things.
<elfy> well 
<elfy> never heard of any of them :D but I'm actually more Gong than loud stuff :)
<elfy> I just use it as an excuse for being deaf :p
<OvenWerks>  :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-02-19
<zequence> elfy: Thanks for doing the testing. I was just about to see about that.
<zequence> So, the applet thing was fixed?
<zequence> Good catch about the HD space. I should have picked that up, since I know 8GB is too small
<elfy> zequence: there's still things for you to do - I didn't check any of your apps
<OvenWerks> elfy: Is Xubuntu using totem for video again?
<knome> OvenWerks, no, parole
<OvenWerks> Our ISO build failed
<OvenWerks> It is looking for totem for mozilla
<OvenWerks> We have been using parole for a long time now too.
<OvenWerks> elfy: What does Xubuntu use for a browser then?
<DalekSec> Firefox, OvenWerks.
<OvenWerks> zequence: do you remember why we include totem-mozilla in our desktop? Is this left over or just added? It is right now breaking our ISO build.
<OvenWerks> maybe it is left over from when we used totem?
<DalekSec> Also, UbuntuStudio is still using xscreensaver, that's one difference you have with Xubuntu as they switched to light-locker.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: The error in our ISO build is: The following packages have unmet dependencies: totem-mozilla : Depends: totem (= 3.10.1-1ubuntu7) but it is not going to be
<OvenWerks> installed
<OvenWerks> we removed totem 2 LTS ago or so.
<OvenWerks> It is funny this is just showing up now.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: Ahh, It seems this is a new upstream version that was released today.
<DalekSec> Stuff breaking. \o/
<OvenWerks> Ya... might be a release sync thing.
<DalekSec> Though just dropping it makes sense.
<OvenWerks> I am thinking the same thing.
<OvenWerks> Done 
<DalekSec> Remember, FF today.
<OvenWerks> Should have done a bug first?
<DalekSec> Nah, just warning ya.
<OvenWerks> It has been a while since I have done anything. I have to set up bzr...
<OvenWerks> Had too, I mean
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-02-20
<zequence> OvenWerks: We should mirror our seeds as closely as possible to Xubuntu's, however, at this point we'll need a FF exception for -default-settings, which we'll need to change for some of those possible additions to seeds
<OvenWerks> zequence: the US metas need to be uploaded before our ISO will build again.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I would like to be able to use Xubuntu's desktop and add our setting and metas.
<OvenWerks> If we really want to have a utilities meta to add things like parted or gedit, that would be better. At least that way we are starting with an up to date, tested desktop and adding applications. I think there are enough musicians adding scripts or using applications that are more languages, that having a proper editor makes sense. Parted is good because there are people who use more than one drive for recording so that their system, soun
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-22
<sakrecoer_> zequence: i'll announce it. its no biggie, but its a good reason for existence reminder :D
<sakrecoer_> zequence: and thanks for taking care of updating the links
<sakrecoer_> i've been thinkering arround with the look and artwork things. i would very much appreciate a little guiding to the various branches there are for this. 
<sakrecoer_> for example, when i go into settings=>appearance in the icon tab, i find an entry for Ubuntu Studio, but where are these icons packaged?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: :)
<sakrecoer_> i must be missing a branche, because i can't find those icons.
<sakrecoer_> hi OvenWerks :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I think there is actually only one icon in there.
<sakrecoer_> :D
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the icons for the menu are included in the -menu package because they are a part of that. They are not put in the ubuntustudio theme but in hicolor
<sakrecoer_> i'm pretty impressed about this: http://snwh.org/moka/icons
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: hmm, our logo ends up in the -settings package but not in a theme, it is in  /usr/share/pixmaps instead.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: those are certainly closer to our menu icons.
<sakrecoer_> they look very good installed in XFCE
<sakrecoer_> and i'm struggling to find the link right now, but they seem to be released under GPL3
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the ubuntustudio icon theme has 4 icons in it.
<OvenWerks> two of them are to replace missing icons that applications don't have (hexter and hdspmixer) and the other too are to make sure our logo overrides any sysytem logo for menu and distributor (shows in the installer)
<sakrecoer_> thank you OvenWerks :) that explains a lot.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the two application icons should really go in the hicolor theme so that they will show no matter which theme is chosen.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: tis is the icon theme branch right? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/trunk
<sakrecoer_> but where is the hicolor?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: yes
<OvenWerks> hicolor should not be in that package
<OvenWerks> any file put in hicolor should be put there by the application package. So our audio meta package would be the right place.
<sakrecoer_> i cannot put the finger on what step in the ladder is blurry to me...
<OvenWerks> but in that case it _should_ wait till all the packages in the meta are installed and then check if the files exist and then install if not.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: because the menu logo is named specifically it could be moved to the -menu package as well.
<OvenWerks>  That would leave the only icon in our icon theme being distributor-logo.svg
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: and where are our workflow icons?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: in ubuntustudio-menu
<sakrecoer_> the blue note, the orange pencil and the purple filmstrip
<sakrecoer_> ok....
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-menu/trunk
<sakrecoer_> niiiice! :)
<sakrecoer_> thank you OvenWerks :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: as I said I think the menu logo should be in there too :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: actually there is our logo in there too, but I think it is used ubuntustudio submenu, not the panel menu icon.
<sakrecoer_> it would sure be good for future newcommer, if they would find all icons in as little different places as possible...
<sakrecoer_> well that sounded harsh from me, i hope you guys get it...
<sakrecoer_> if we can make it better without losing too much time we should
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: yes. I think the pixmaps icons could be removed. I don't think there is any SW that only looks there. I think that is generally the last place that gets looked at.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the menu may be installed some place other than ubuntustudio and so it's icons need to be in that package. For example someone installing the menu and our metas in kbuntu.
<OvenWerks> s/kbuntu/kubuntu/
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the icons for hdspmixer and hexter should be fixed inside the respective packages. In hexter's case it is hard because the menu item should not be displayed even if the jack-dssi-host package is not installed.
<sakrecoer_> but.. hexter works with jack right?
<OvenWerks> there are more than one DX7 emulation plugins.
<OvenWerks> hexter does not directly with jack without a dssi host.
<OvenWerks> the command line inside the menu selection for hexter is: jack-dssi-host hexter.so
<OvenWerks> It is jack-dssi-host that makes hexter work with jack.
<sakrecoer_> ok, i see now that jack started when i tested the hexter icon
<OvenWerks>  :P
<sakrecoer_> are there many other apps using jack-dssi-host?
<sakrecoer_> (also now the BIG icon is back, since i started hexter)
<OvenWerks> :)
<sakrecoer_> i mean, do we ship many DSSI-plugins?
<OvenWerks> there are 4 dssi plugins that we ship: WhySynth, hexter, FluidSynth-DSSI, Xsynth
<sakrecoer_> FluidSynth-DSSI, is that "qsynth" ?
<OvenWerks> Fluidsynth uses qsynth as a host
<OvenWerks> There is an LV plugin with qsynth as well (maybe two) but calf includes one for sure
<sakrecoer_> i can't find the others, "WhySynth", and "XSynth"
<OvenWerks> nope.
<sakrecoer_> i guess that means that they are in the extras?
<sakrecoer_> yeah, found some wsynth-dssi (hack on Xsynth-DSSI to allow wavetable synthesis)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: nope, try jack-dssi-host xsynth-dssi.so
<sakrecoer_> ah, that patch edit is a pretty welcome tab in such a plug
<OvenWerks> or jack-dssi-host whysynth.so
<sakrecoer_> ok, then, i have to wonder, is there a reason why they are hidden?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: there have been comments that whysynth is the "new" xsynth and comments back that xsynth is alive and well
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: we could make desktop/icon files for them too.
<sakrecoer_> whysynth looked way less easily configurable...
<sakrecoer_> hexter doesnt come with patch editing either..
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I think the only reason hexter comes with a desktop file is because someone added it to that package at some time.
<OvenWerks> hexter does.
<sakrecoer_> where do i find patch editing for hexter?
<OvenWerks>  and so does whysynth.
<OvenWerks> edit->edit patch
<OvenWerks> (in both cases)
<sakrecoer_> :) *facepalming myself a little*
<sakrecoer_> so all we need to do to "unhide" these tools is to create an entru fro them in the menu?
<sakrecoer_> interesting, fiddeling with whysynth got me logged off my session
<sakrecoer_> freeze, and then login prompt without reboot..
<sakrecoer_> anyways, that is a different story..
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: a desktop file
<sakrecoer_> ok, i get it :)
<sakrecoer_> (i think)
<sakrecoer_> thank you OvenWerks, helped a lot!
<OvenWerks> on your system look at /usr/share/applications/hexter.desktop for an example.
<sakrecoer_> yeah, that was the little i knew about the icons :)
<sakrecoer_> but so, jack-dssi is only used by these dx7 emulations?
<OvenWerks> Just those four plugins... plus any more the user decides to download.
<sakrecoer_> thank OvenWerks :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: someothers include wsynth, nekobee, llscope,etc
<OvenWerks> there is a thing called ghostess, which it says I have installed but doesn't show in my menu
<OvenWerks> hmm needs CLI start it seems.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: yeah, it starts a little patchbay for DSSI plugins...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: Carla would be nicer. It handles all kinds of different plugins.
<sakrecoer_> would carla replace ghostess and jack-dssi?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: fun with Linux Devs, LV2 is supposed to replace ladspa and dssi plugins. Many devs have moved their plugins to LV2, but there is a small group of Devs who do not like LV2 (for whatever reason) and refuse to switch. :P
<OvenWerks> yes Carla would replace them both.
<OvenWerks> it looks nice too.
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: just so you know - beta 1 is now building :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: beta 1 of... carla?
<flocculant> and I know where to find you on Thursday for release notes for it ... 
<OvenWerks> carla would also replace jackrack which we are having trouble keeping too.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: i'm struggling to find what licens carla is published under, is that the reason why we don't ship it?
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: i'm confused, can you specify what matter you are reffering to?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: if it gets into debian we are fine
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: your Xenial Beta 1 build 
<sakrecoer_> ah! :) and where will you find me on thursday?
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: 
<OvenWerks> flocculant: so it has been rebuilt? I noticed it failed earlier today.
<OvenWerks> flocculant: failed to build again...
<flocculant> OvenWerks: no idea about that - but the dailies are stopped and rebuilding for beta - so unless something changed I guess it will fail again
<OvenWerks> flocculant: different fail this time.
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: where do you expect to find me on thursday? or rather, where and to what end would you need my presence? :)
<flocculant> OvenWerks: I see those mails - no idea what it means though
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: I will find you in here - I will want a link to your release notes for when I announce 
<OvenWerks> flocculant: the earlier fail looked like one package that updated correctly and another yet to be. The second fail looks like atp-get update fail because things are moving around on servers.
<sakrecoer_> ok,... "my release notes"... well at least i'm glad to hear about this before thursday :D
<sakrecoer_> i'm gald to hear about it in any case, i just don't know yet what that implies...
<sakrecoer_> or what i am supposed to write in the release notes..
 * OvenWerks watches cpu temperature rise while building new Ardour tabbed version.
<sakrecoer_> well, i hope to get briefed on what is required for those release notes :)
<sakrecoer_> i need to log off for a while, be back later tonight tho,..
<sakrecoer_> thanks for your help OvenWerks ! and good to read you flocculant :)
<OvenWerks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R0Qzm9ZZfo is pretty interesting show off of meterbridge
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-23
<sakrecoer_> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=798490
<ubottu> Debian bug 798490 in wnpp "RFP: carla -- audio plugin host supporting LADSPA, DSSI,LV2, VST2/3 and AU formats" [Wishlist,Open]
<sakrecoer_> the guy from carla and kxstudio wrote last summer that he wanted to get down with debian, http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/friday-interview-2-falktx
<sakrecoer_> from reading arround i get the feeling it is happening. althought i haven't digged deep enough to understand why linuxsampler would be a dependency of carla.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: re meterbridge, whats up with NON? http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Non%20Mixer
<sakrecoer_> it's sexy as a bare-circuit robot http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Screenshots
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: carla can be built without linux sampler I have done that here.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: no one has packaged it. But it would be much nicer if it supported LV2 plugins (and these days linux VSTs) many of the LV2 plugins are very nice and have no equal in ladspa.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: also if Ardour is hard for some people to figure out, the non-daw learning curve is much higher.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I had thought that non-mixer would at least make a nice live mixer, but some  of the things I would want can not be easily used with it.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: with non-daw using the session manager is a must. Good thing the non-session manager is the best one around.
<OvenWerks> but people seem to have a hard time using more than LMMS (or things like iit) already.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I am sorry the "it" in my second comment above is non-daw. There is no licencing issue so far as I know, just no one has packaged it. It is still being developed so far as I know.
<OvenWerks> zequence: just updated 16.04 on my system. On shutdown there was a very long delay with no indication that the system was not hung. I hit ESC (which the average user might not know to do) and there was a note saying there is a shutdown job running and it was 47secs done out of 1 minute 30 seconds. I am not sure what package to bug this under or if xubuntu has done something with it.
<OvenWerks> I will maybe bug plymouth if I don't hear back.
<OvenWerks> off to reboot again...
<flocculant> OvenWerks: the 90seconds is the standard time systemd waits for something if it's not shutting down properly (apparently)
<flocculant> I had similar last year - that was caused by serviio not having a .service file
<OvenWerks> flocculant: it only did it once and the message made me think this was part of the SW upgrade/install
<OvenWerks> but being exactly 90 sec and having it shutdown right on time would point more to what you are saying for sure
<OvenWerks> I am not worried about it taking longer than normal to shutdown so much as there being no indication to the user.
<OvenWerks> flocculant: am I then correct to assume that if two things fail to shutdown correctly the wait time could be 3 minutes?
<OvenWerks> Anyway... good news, (and I don't know how long ago this was fixed) the delay on session start when choosing the system menu is much shorter now.
<OvenWerks> in 1404 the delay was as much as 20sec.
<flocculant> OvenWerks: I can't answer that - but I'd assume the wait is concurrent
<flocculant> OvenWerks: if it keeps happening - then I would guess there's something running not terminalting properly - about all I ever managed to find about logging shutdown was https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/#index2h1
<zequence> OvenWerks: Can't find a similar bug for qjackctl in Debian, and they have the same version
<zequence> I think it's related to XFCE somehow, though. Or something else DE specific
<zequence> On Gnome, which nowadays has support for traditional systray icons, has no problems
<zequence> actually, perhaps it has to do with indicator support
<zequence> It will only misbehave when I add indicator support to Gnome
<zequence> But, then what happens is the icon in the indicator area is non responsive. No menu, nothing
<zequence> We should find out more, and send a bug report to Rui
<zequence> Disabling indicator support should be fairly easy to do with a patch, as a fix
<zequence> I suspect this is an old bug. Perhaps to do with qt?
<zequence> bug 970412
<ubottu> bug 1294056 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #970412 Qjackctl systray icon shows no menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294056
<zequence> Perhaps to do with qt5
<OvenWerks> zequence: I know Rui has just in the past year released with qt5 available (or maybe that is as default).
<zequence> qjackctl only switched to qt5 with the latest update
<zequence> You can see that in the debian changelog
<zequence> apt-get changelog qjackctl
<OvenWerks> it should be buildable with qt4 still... I may download the source and see if that helps... if so then it is a source bug.
<zequence> alright
 * OvenWerks guess he will need yet another install partition to mess up with building tools  :P
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you don't mind the reduced performance, you can always use a virtual system, which you can backup
<zequence> I used to that for linux-lowlatency at the end, so I always had a system setup for that - one which I could easily add to any OS
<zequence> I used to that for linux-lowlatency at the end, so I always had a system setup for that - one which I could easily add to any OS
<zequence> Oh, sorry
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-24
<zequence> -controls upload will have to wait until after Beta1. Too much not finished yet
<zequence> I haven't checked what changes Xubuntu has done in the last couple of months, so our seeds probably need to be updated
<zequence> Just did, and seems fine. No changes this year at all
<zequence> No changes to our seeds either, as it seems
<flocculant> zequence: your mail says "I requested a rebuild of the ISO,..." queuebot says "Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Xenial Beta 1] has been disabled" and the tracker agrees - no studio on beta testing tracker
<zequence> flocculant: I tried reversing that to no effect
<zequence> A little weird with two options, and two buttons for making them
<zequence> YOu saying a build request was never made?
<zequence> No, wait
<zequence> Ok, I forgot to select them again
<zequence> Well, they are enabled for testing again, so I hope the build request got through this time
<zequence> Ah, yes, seems good
<zequence> flocculant: Thanks
<zequence> OvenWerks: Did you find anything new with qjackctl?
<OvenWerks> zequence: still bad? no nothing new.
<flocculant> zequence: just to keep you updated - you'll be wanting a rebuild again later :p
<OvenWerks> qt4-doc is rather large...
<OvenWerks> zequence: qjackctl built with qt4 works on 1604
<OvenWerks> That is version 0.4.1 dl from Sourcefarge
<OvenWerks> zequence: I will try building for qt5 to see if that is _the_difference between working/not
<OvenWerks> apparently qjackctl's config doesn't check for everything.
<OvenWerks> zequence: building qjackctl in QT5 from devs source also fails.
<sakrecoer_> i thought i had a grip of jack, but the recent talk about it i can only assume i'm slightly grasping some fluffy ideas of what is going on..
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: what is confusing you? The internals do not need to be understood to use jack
<sakrecoer_> this jack and jack2 vs ardour thing..
<sakrecoer_> jack is basicaly the term used to say "jackd" or "jackd2" ?
<OvenWerks> jack1 vs jack2 is the thing really. There was a bad version of jack2 that was making "freerun" not work right.
<sakrecoer_> and we ship the bad version of jack2?
<sakrecoer_> which ironicaly seem to be version 1.9.10 :D
<OvenWerks> jack or jackd does not mean anything but what is currently installed. to be specific one must use jack1 or jack2 ... to confuse things jack1 actually has a version number below 1 and jack2 is currently version 1.9.10  :)
<OvenWerks> From Ralphs last comment that is fixed.
<OvenWerks> debian by default ships the highest version of a program... so jack2. But really jack1 and jack2 are parallel. they should be jackd and jackdmp
<OvenWerks> jackd1 is single thread, single core. Jackd2 can use more than one core unless in syncronus mode.
<sakrecoer_> jack1 is jackd, and jack2 is jackdmp?
<sakrecoer_> so 14.04 comes with jack1? i can't find any jackdmp, but maybe i'm looking in the wrong places..
<OvenWerks> 14.04 comes with jackd2 which is jackdmp
<OvenWerks> What I am saying is that the use of 1 and 2 has led to much confusion :)
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: ok... but the command is still named jackd?
<sakrecoer_> i find no jackdmp command..
<OvenWerks> yes.
<sakrecoer_> haha :) that is the most confusing name and versioning story i've ever heard.
<sakrecoer_> now i see, jackd -V gives me "jackdmp 1.9.10" :D
<OvenWerks> for our purposes jack2 is nice because it comes with jackdbus (yes you will find that one) which allows easy use of pulseaudio and jack together.
<sakrecoer_> but is jack1 still being developped?
<OvenWerks> there is a patch for jack1 that makes it work with dbus, but it is not in the repo
<OvenWerks> jack1 is still being developed and in some ways is ahead of jack2
<sakrecoer_> hahahaha?!?!?! i'm dying a little bit from laughing :D
<OvenWerks> https://github.com/jackaudio/jackaudio.github.com/wiki/Q_difference_jack1_jack2
<sakrecoer_> reminds me of photography, where large shutter is small number, large exposure number is short exposure etc etc...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: it is possible to install jack1 on ubuntu, but it would try to remove much sw that (mistakenly) depends on jack2
<sakrecoer_> but we are better off with jack2 anyways aren't we?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: same as wire size or sheet metal gauge
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I think so, but that is my opinion. There are a lot of people who use jack1.
<OvenWerks> jack2 is also still being developed. If jack had been properly, fully developed from the start, it may have been what pulseaudio is today, but better :) but the developers were not that interested in desktop audio and so did not work at that.
<OvenWerks> I have found that using jack as the "device" for pulse works very well and causes me less trouble than either jackd or pulse alone.
<OvenWerks> The pa-jack mix is stable enough that I use it on my wife's computer as default.
<sakrecoer_> well, so far i've always been happy with the jack installed in ubuntustudio, without having a truly conscient opinion, i must agree. it's super easy to connect the pulse stuff to jack stuff..
<OvenWerks> zequence: there does not seem to be a launchpad code page for qjackctl for X. W is the last one and the depends are already qt4.
<OvenWerks> zequence: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25314391/system-tray-icon-doesnt-show-in-qt5-linux-lxde it seems the bug is well known with qt5
<OvenWerks> It may be that the qt5 version ubuntu has needs upgrading too. but I am not familiar enough with qt to know. The qt4 libs are still available in 1604 so the best thing to do is build qjackctl that way.
<OvenWerks> qt5.5 is supposed to fix things :P
<zequence> OvenWerks: To get the source for any package in the development version, you can use the tool pull-lp-source
<zequence> You get it with ubuntu-dev-tools, I believe
<zequence> So, for qjackctl, it would be: pull-lp-source qjackctl
<OvenWerks> *.deb src files make no sense to me. /debian/rules needs to be changed, but I am not sure from looking at that if I can just change the 2 qt5s to qt4 and change the depends to qt4 versions if that would work.
<zequence> If not the latest development version: pull-lp-source qjackctl trusty
<zequence> OvenWerks: Should be a config change
<OvenWerks> zequence: I tried the latest version and it works with qt4
<OvenWerks> zequence: There is no config option that makes sense to me.
<OvenWerks> I do not see where ./configure might be run.
<zequence> OvenWerks: best thing is probably to get the git branch from debian
<zequence> ..and see what the diff is between the two revisions where that was changed
<zequence> Let me find it..
<OvenWerks> It appears that the ./configure step is skipped and the source is pre configured as shipped.
<zequence> Maybe a config override in debian/rules was removed with the last update
<OvenWerks> zequence: qjackctl 0.4.1 configured qt4 by default (though qt5 versions could be built) and 0.4.2 seems to default to qt5.
<zequence> OvenWerks: git clone https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/qjackctl.git
<zequence> One of the commits will be about the move to qt
<zequence> I'm sure you know this, but I say it anyway. To check the diff, find the commit sum, and do: git show <sum>
<zequence> Should show you only the changes done in that commit
<OvenWerks> zequence: actually much easier than that, go to the above git page as a web page and just click on the commit.
<zequence> Well, if you want to do it in the web, sure
<zequence> Seems like the rules thing was one line changed and two added, and of course, build dependencies changed
<OvenWerks> Sorry 0.4.0 to 0.4.1
<zequence> If we want to fix the ubuntu package, by reverting to qt4, we should do the same thing, but make it a debian patch
<zequence> Once the qt5 bug is fixed, we can just remove the debian patch
<zequence> Is qt5 update in the works?
<zequence> Seemed like the Kubuntu folks are going to do some uploads shortly
<OvenWerks> zequence: I suspect a direct reversal of that patch may fail. But I can try.
<zequence> OvenWerks: No, it needs to be done manually, and made into a patch
<zequence> I need to find out what the best way is to create a patch today. I used a tool before, which is not working anymore
<zequence> But, question is, how long will we need the fix, also
<zequence> We could hang back for a little while, and fix it later, if needed
<zequence> Or, do it now, and whoever does it gets to learn how to do Debian patches in the modern way
<OvenWerks> zequence: the switch to qt4 could stay in 1604 with no problem as there are other programs that need qt4
<OvenWerks> zequence: probably the easiest way is to branch the ubuntu version make changes upload to my branch... create a merge request.
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you want, but it needs to be a debian patch. You can't just make changes to the code. That won't work
<zequence> So, it can't just be a bzr commit. That's not enough
<zequence> The patch needs to be documented according to debian patch format
<zequence> OvenWerks: I did that for jackd and pulseaudio for 12.04, and things have changed a bit since
<OvenWerks> hmm there doesn't seem to be a branch to play with anyway.
<zequence> I would check Ubuntu Packaging docs, Ubuntu wiki, and most importantly, Debian wiki for information
<zequence> Oh, there is
<zequence> But, it's not a stable release. I don't remember the difference
<zequence> Don't know if someone messed up the project of qjacktl somehow in LP
<zequence> I can't find the bzr branch, no
<zequence> Anyway, it needs to be a debian patch. One can get the current source with pull-lp-source
<zequence> Then, make it a bzr branch, add the one commit with the debian patch, and push it to a branch
<zequence> Then, poke someone to get it, check it, and upload it
<zequence> A debdiff could probably work too.
<zequence> But, that would be done without bzr
<zequence> The bzr branch can be linked to the bug report
<zequence> btw, might be a good idea to do the fix in Debian directly, come to think of it
<zequence> Since I think it will continue to be a problem for them even after release
<zequence> I could look into that
<zequence> That way, all we need to do is a sync request
<zequence> New ISOs just got built, but not published yet
<OvenWerks> An upgrade shows no new qt stuff though.
<OvenWerks> (new kernel though)
<OvenWerks> zequence: we have both xchat and pidgin. Do we want that? Pidgin comes from xubuntu?
<flocculant> OvenWerks: would you not be better with hexchat instead of xchat - one is maintained - afaik xchat is moribund
<OvenWerks> but works. If we have pidgin do we need something else?
<flocculant> we don't
<flocculant> haven't for a couple of cycles iirc
<zequence> New ISOs out
<zequence> flocculant: Have you made changes to those yourselves?
<flocculant> to the iso's?
<zequence> No, pidgin and xchat
<zequence> Maybe I have the wrong branch, but it seems like there have been no changes since November
<zequence> Just confirmed on LP. Think I synced ours with yours after that
<OvenWerks> zequence: my wife's version of xubuntu 16.04 has no xchat.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Did you install your Studio recently?
<zequence> My sync happened 2 days after the last change in xubuntu
<OvenWerks> InstallationDate: Installed on 2015-11-19 (89 days ago)
<zequence> The sync happened Nov 28th
<OvenWerks> so it has been a while, I have kept it upgraded, but that doesn't remove cruft.
<zequence> So, you probably have the olds stuff
<zequence> YEah
<OvenWerks> After I figure out this qjackctl stuff I will probably reinstall anyway.
<OvenWerks> That way I can do an install test and live test.
<flocculant> zequence: we seed pidgin - we stopped seeding xchat a couple of cycles ago
<zequence> flocculant: Ok. Len probably has his from an older install, so we shouldn't have it anymore
<OvenWerks> zequence: I do have a working (from ubuntu source) qjackctl. I had to patch the configure file as well.
<zequence> OvenWerks: That btw might require another look at our irc shortcut. I haven't tested that for a couple of years at least
<zequence> OvenWerks: The config file doesn't have a qt4 option anymore?
<zequence> OvenWerks: the shortcut opens xchat, but we aren't shipping it anymore
<OvenWerks> I don't know how to write that into the debian/rules file.
<zequence> The git diff should give you a clue
<OvenWerks> no, configure was changed from 0.4.0 to 0.4.1 to default to qt5
<zequence> default to, yes, but there's still an option for qt4, right?
<OvenWerks> So it defaults to qt5 now
<zequence> And, in the Debian package, the config options was changed in the rules file, not anywhere else
<OvenWerks> --enableqt4 I think
<OvenWerks> no but it was changed in the source from sourceforge
<zequence> Sure, but not in the Debian package. For us, the correct way to do things is through Debian packaging
<OvenWerks> right, but not sure what rules uses for stuff to feed ./configure
<zequence> It just supplies an env var for where the qt stuff is located
<zequence> export QTDIR=/usr/share/qt4
<zequence> Not your standard lib dir, but perhaps there's something more to it. I don't know qt
<zequence> Could be that commit only made the packagin work after upstream changes. Going to check
<OvenWerks> zequence: I changed those first, but when building it runs configure and configure says qt5 unless told other wise
<zequence> Ok, so the packager only followed upstream in this case
<zequence> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/qjackctl.git/commit/?id=88e3ed9c8c59a072369938688bcdde2dd81aa9ed
<zequence> That's the latest sync with upstream
<zequence> Here is the diff to the config file http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/qjackctl.git/diff/configure?id=88e3ed9c8c59a072369938688bcdde2dd81aa9ed
<zequence> And, that is where default was changed
<zequence> A config override is possible from debian/rules
<zequence> So, that is where it should be done
<OvenWerks> zequence: yes you can see ac_qt4= has been change from yes to no. I just reverted those two lines back
<zequence> Something like..
<zequence> override_dh_auto_configure: dh_auto_configure -- --prefix=/opt/uruk
<OvenWerks> but if I can get rules or whatever rules reads to give configure --enableqt4 that would work too.
<zequence> Adding this could work http://paste.ubuntu.com/15191146/
<zequence> I haven't muched messed with it, but there's the clue anyway. debhelper
<zequence> Going to bed. Just getting the latest ISO, and will start testing early in the morning.
<zequence> gn all
<OvenWerks> gn
<OvenWerks> zequence: I can't get override_dh_auto_configure: to work. It seems in order for that to work one has to first have dh $@ on a line above... but if I do that the whole build fails for lots of other missing stuff.
<OvenWerks> quite honestly, this rules file is what has kept me from packaging some other packages. It expects all packages to be built in a certain way... if not the ways of getting around things are non-obvious/non-trivial
<OvenWerks> none of the documentation seems to say that to use this you must have that... or this comes first, this comes last and this in the middle.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-25
<zequence> OvenWerks: Bumber. Should ask someone with skills, then
<zequence> I must have done something wrong with whisker configs. Icon still not showing
<zequence> Also, we have that old problem with Ubuntu indicators showing when they shouldn't
<flocculant> zequence: will you be doing release notes for beta 1? 
<zequence> flocculant: I'll gladly skip that.
<zequence> I'll wait until a later release
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: what should the release note look like? or rather, i can probably help.
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: but at the moment, there seem to be no beta1 iso available
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: i found this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-9.1 i'm going to copy it to write a skelleton for US :p
<sakrecoer_> okok.. now i get it with the iso links and current things...
<zequence> Where are the current release notes, anyway?
<zequence> Nothing in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes
<zequence> sakrecoer_: The latest ISOs are available. They were built yesterday http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds
<zequence> anyone able to test the i386 ISO?
<sakrecoer_> zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta1
<zequence> sakrecoer_: Ah, right
<sakrecoer_> i will create now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta1/UbuntuStudio
<zequence> Ok
<zequence> You may use other pages as reference, but in fact, there will be very little to report at this time about changes
<zequence> Mostly updated packages, which is in some way self understood
<zequence> I'm zsyncing the i386 image. Will need to do the tests during a boat ride, and later in the studio, but that should be fine
<flocculant> zequence sakrecoer_ - you don't have to have notes - I just won't link any in the release announcement :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: we do have this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta1/UbuntuStudio
<flocculant> This page does not exist yet. You can create a new empty page, or use one of the page templates. 
<flocculant> that's what I see - hence me saying :)
<sakrecoer_> argggh!!!
<sakrecoer_> i just spent 1 h working on it
<flocculant> then when you go back it should tell you about the draft :)
<sakrecoer_> and it didn't save... i'm locked out
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: ok - I'll link to it anyway - then when it's live it'll be ready to roll :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: i can't login to wiki anymore...
<flocculant> maybe IS have locked it again
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: saved it in a textfiles first \o/
<flocculant> \o/
<sakrecoer_> yupp, wiki is on hold.
<sakrecoer_> i have to desynchronise with maintainensies (gah, that word)
<sakrecoer_> trying to say is: maintainer of wiki and i seem to work at the same hours
<sakrecoer_> tomorrow i will have the priviledge to highfive zequence in  live and direct :)
<zequence> I was unable to install the i386. ubiquity bug
<zequence> No one else doing any testing?
<zequence> I won't release the Beta 1 until someone confirms it installs
<zequence> Didn't have internet, so couldn't report a bug
<zequence> Ok, got the amd64 installer to start at least.
<OvenWerks> zequence: zsyncing now.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Alright
<zequence> Hi there Rosco2 
<Rosco2> Hi there
<Rosco2> Arggh. Enigmail tells me it needs updating everytime I open an email!
<flocculant> zequence: did anyone from your release team do a rebuild? 
<flocculant> I'm guessing not if you get ubiquity bug
<flocculant> 64 bit did 
<flocculant> which is why it worked for you :)
<zequence> flocculant: I rebuilt both
<zequence> ubiquity didn't even start
<zequence> on i386
<zequence> Rosco2: Any chance you can set the ISOs ready once someone has confirmed the i386 installs?
<zequence> Would be good to get that done within an hour or two if possible
<zequence> I'm a little busy currently. Will have some time in an hour or two
<zequence> With that I got to go. bbl
<Rosco2> SUre - just firing up the tracker now
<flocculant> zequence: 32bit is showing the old ubiquity but new upower
<flocculant> rebuilding it now
<OvenWerks> flocculant: so I will need to update my 32bit DL again?
<flocculant> OvenWerks: not yet - it's not done
<OvenWerks> flocculant: My zsync isn't done either :)
<flocculant> zequence: ubiquity working smoketest sufficient? 
<flocculant> OvenWerks: ha ha 
<flocculant> 30 minutes away at least
<OvenWerks> flocculant: I will keep dling as my old copy was less than 50% right.
<flocculant> oh yea - quite a way then :D
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: ftr - your release note is still 'new'
<Rosco2> 64 bit marked ready
<Rosco2> going to eat something
<Rosco2> I see that 32 bit rebuild is finished
<Rosco2> Will check in here and there to see how OvenWerks is getting on
<flocculant> just zsyncing 32 bit - will do an install smoketest for you
<Rosco2> cheers
<Rosco2> I get in trouble if I don't come when called :-)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> Rosco2: ok - that installed as expected
<Rosco2> thanks
<Rosco2> OvenWrks: Are you still planning to give 32 bit a spin?
<Rosco2>  OvenWerks:
<OvenWerks> Rosco2: im at 77% dl.
<Rosco2> no probs
<zequence> Got the latest i386 too. ubiquity started, so I'm assuming it'll work. Installing now
 * OvenWerks is too slow.
<Rosco2> :-)
<flocculant> Rosco2 zequence how goes it? 
<flocculant> looking a publishing ~ 19:30 UTC
<Rosco2> Had no 386 image to zdiff - so waited for Len & Kaj
<Rosco2> Assume they should be done by then - just confirmation anyway
<flocculant> k - thanks Rosco2 :)
<Rosco2> Getting image now anyway for next time
<flocculant> :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: in the live session in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce4/whiskermenu/defaults.rc I find a line: button-icon=xubuntu-logo-menu
<zequence> flocculant: Still installing. Almost finished
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok
<OvenWerks> button-icon=ubuntustudio-logo-menu might work better
<OvenWerks> Parole certainly crashes on start from context. xine (old ancient xine) works just fine as always.
<OvenWerks> ubiquity no longer shows the connected to network/you have enough disk space info.
<flocculant> OvenWerks: that's expected after a change ot it
<flocculant> zequence: ready? 
<flocculant> OvenWerks: "  * Redesign the prepare screen for less clutter." http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/u/ubiquity/ubiquity_2.21.46/changelog
<flocculant> basically you will see the disk size warning if size too small, you'll see net one if no network
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1549045/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1549045 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity drive space and connectivity checks are missing" [High,Invalid]
<flocculant> OvenWerks: did it install ok - any blockers you can see?
<flocculant> Rosco2: - you ok to mark them? 
<Rosco2> Yeah - I'll mark it. Looks like at least Len was able to boot into the live image from IRC chatter
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> Kaj had almost finished installing 30 minutes
<Rosco2> Done
<flocculant> cheers :)
<flocculant> sooner they start publishing the sooner I can publish the website page and turn off for the night :)
<Rosco2> We can still work on what they found when back online
<flocculant> yea ofc - it's all out of date tomorrow :)
 * OvenWerks has installed as well. lots of bugs in the installed version though.
<OvenWerks> ACK! synaptic is not installed by default. USC is not in my trusted list
 * OvenWerks tried to imagine what would happen if someone used USC to install jackd1...
<flocculant> OvenWerks: usc is on it's way out
<Rosco2> thanks all for the thorough testing. Taking a short screen break
<OvenWerks> flocculant: we used to ship synaptic, but I am guessing it got dropped in one of the sync to xubuntu events.
<zequence> Sorry, I got caught up in something. Installed ok
<OvenWerks> zequence: no problem, it all got done. bugged plymouth and -menu (irc)
<zequence> plymouth won't work in virtuabox, but we probably need to fix it also for real macines
<zequence> machines*
<flocculant> OvenWerks: we used to - then it dropped for usc - that's going from Ubuntu (and unmaintained afaik) - replaced by gnome software
<flocculant> which I think is awful tbh
<flocculant> I apt-get usually or synaptic
<OvenWerks> flocculant: synaptic is a wonderful tool. It is an easy gui to use to find out what files a package has installed where, what depends for a package are.
<flocculant> yea
<OvenWerks> USC just installs whatever the consquences
 * OvenWerks installs gnome software for a look
<flocculant> good luck 
<OvenWerks> GS doesn't give much info about a package either.
<flocculant> yep
<OvenWerks> zequence: the fix I meantioned above: 10:54 < OvenWerks> zequence: in the live session in  /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/xfce4/whiskermenu/defaults.rc I find a  line: button-icon=xubuntu-logo-menu
<OvenWerks> is confirmed to work. Editted that file and removed file ~/.config/xfce4/panel/whiskermenu*.rc
<zequence> Would you care to change it in -default-settings?
<zequence> I can do that later too, no problem
<zequence> Just heading to bed now
<OvenWerks> zequence: good night.
<OvenWerks> wierd... the file in -settings is not the same as the installed file.
<OvenWerks> Ah, ubuntu-default-settings 0.57 was never uploaded/released.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I made a slight change to the icon filename to use the menu specific file rather than the generic logo, but I have not changed the changelog because I don't know if it should be upped a release or still use 0.57 which was never uploaded in which case the changelog entry is fine.
<OvenWerks> zequence: also feel free to roll back the commit and release as was for 0.57  :)
<OvenWerks> don't ask for a sync for jackd (1 I think) right now. Something in the last few commits is bad.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-26
<sakrecoer_> managed to do at least a live-iso test. my planning was distrupted by family affairs, sorry :(
<sakrecoer_> i ran into a ubiquity localisation bug, the first entry in the boot menu doesn't get translated to swedish.
<sakrecoer_> however, i struggle to find _where_ to file the bug...
<sakrecoer_> the ubiquity package has no "repport bug" set up.
<flocculant> bug 1549529
<ubottu> bug 1549529 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "The keyboard is still installed as US-English even if another language is selected during the installation" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549529
<flocculant> and you have to ubuntu-bug ubiquity in a terminal
<sakrecoer_> that isn't my bug, but thank you
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: ok, right ubuntu-bug, but then i would have to do it from the live sessino right?
<flocculant> yea
<sakrecoer_> ok, bb after reboot...there was a few other things, i might aswell repport them all that way.
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: do you still want the release notes? all i have is a barebone template... not too sure what i should put in there really...
<flocculant> if you want - the link is on the announcement
<flocculant> I'm not worried now - beta 1 was yesterday, now it's out of date :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: announcement?
<flocculant> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/02/25/xenial-xerus-beta-1/
<sakrecoer_> :/ oh, there is a fridge AND i have missed all the fun :'(
<sakrecoer_> wiki still won't let me in...
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: so, does that mean that the testing period is only lasting 24 hours?
<flocculant> no - the testing period lasted from Monday to yesterday ;)
<sakrecoer_> aw man, i feel awfull...
<sakrecoer_> so, there is no point in me repporting the bugs i found anymore as of now?
<flocculant> no - that's not what I said - just that it's out of date now - but if bug is in ubiquity then the same version still :)
 * sakrecoer_ feels a little better...
<flocculant> worst case scenario is someone would ask you to update and check it still happens 
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: ask me to update... update what?
<sakrecoer_> ah, maybe i get it: update to see if it is fixed...?
<flocculant> yea :)
<sakrecoer_> hm.. ImageMagick doesn't want to open from the menu, it works from cli. not sure where to file the repport... desktop menu? ubuntu-bug ImageMagick wont work at all..
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: there's a sort of report for that bug 1549732
<ubottu> bug 1549732 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "Duplcate Imagemagick entries on menu, none work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549732
<OvenWerks> flocculant: imagemagick is one of those tools that we want to keep because it does nice stuff and I don't know if they can be done otherwise. However I don't think it is kept up... so for now maybe see if we can just change the desktop files to no show and use the commandline utilities which do work.
 * OvenWerks wonders if gimp can do the same things in CLI mode.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-02-28
<sakrecoer_> * OvenWerks wonders if gimp can do the same things in CLI mode. apt-cache rdepends gimp says imagemagick is a dpendency to gimp
<sakrecoer_> its a dependency of many packages, we shouldn't remove it. but either we fix the menu entries, or we remove the entrencies, and leave it down to cli-friendly users
<sakrecoer_> remove the *entries hehe "entrencies" probably a mashup of nbtry and dependencies
 * sakrecoer_ fingerslaps own fingers
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: i get the feeling imagemagick is in fact kept up. what isn't kept up is the built in GUI :) i'm in favour of fixing those desktop files to "no show"
<sakrecoer_> how do i get my dev-install environement to upgrade to whisker menu
<sakrecoer_> ?
<sakrecoer_> ah, he, lets try dist-upgrade maybe
<sakrecoer_> nope
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-02-23
<Rosco2> I take it no-one else is testing Zesty Beta 1 ISOs at the moment :-)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-02-24
<toohightocomply> Zesty Beta 1
<sakrecoer> greetings!
<sakrecoer> i haven't been able to test anything these... past 3.5 months i am afraid...
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Shh!  Let us sleep! :P
<sakrecoer> hahahehehuhuh uuuuhuhuhuh buhuhuhu...
<sakrecoer> i feel terrible about it...
<krytarik> >_>
<krytarik> Really nice to see you though. :)
<sakrecoer> :')
<sakrecoer> like wise!
<sakrecoer> eylul: thank you so much for everything you've pulled. i sincerly appologize for not being able to help you pull that load.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, to you too!
<sakrecoer> rosco2 and cfhowlett <3 i'm very sorry i haven't been able to be arround as much as i want to. but i'm mainly greatful you guys have pulled so much...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-02-25
<eylul> its alright sakrecoer. *is actually still traveling until March 3rd*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-02-26
<toohightocomply> http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6084223597.png
<cfhowlett> check your channel toohightocomply, this is ubuntustudio support
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-02-22
<studio-devel313> Hi guys
<studio-devel313> Anybody here? 
<studio-devel313> I gues not 
<studio-devel313> :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-02-18
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looks like Ross is taking care of getting the uploads queued.
<studiobot> carbonzero was added by: carbonzero
<studiobot> <carbonzero> woohoo! finally in the group on telegram! now i can take you with me on my phone! awesome!
<studiobot> <carbonzero> oh, it's me: hangar18
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> This is the development channel.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> No idea how you got this link.
<studiobot> <carbonzero> um, from the website. it took me to an option to join this group.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Oh gee... I've gotta fix that. Must've pasted the wrong link.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Glad it was you and not someone else.
<studiobot> <carbonzero> yeah, it's on the community page of the website. i'll join the general users group though.
<studiobot> <carbonzero> and i'll back out of this one
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Here's the right link: https://t.me/joinchat/GOahGRZg29nvXb9QzpCxvQ
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Just making sure: https://t.me/joinchat/GOahGRKwMAQ-N3GRnRNZBA
<studiobot> <carbonzero> it's still bringing me here for some reason
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> The second one.
<studiobot> <carbonzero> there we go! the second one's winner winner chicken dinner! lol
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I fixed the website. That was almost more embarassing than needed.
<studiobot> Sakrecoer was added by: Sakrecoer
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-02-19
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, kinda. KXStudio stilll depends on LADI for Claudia.
<OvenWerks> Poor girl.
<Eickmeyer> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
<Eickmeyer> TBH, I never got why they're all women's names starting with C.
<Eickmeyer> You just won the Internet today.
<OvenWerks> Anyway. I am not going to worry about it too much till I try installer over kubuntu
<Eickmeyer> https://you-win-the-internet.com/?n=Len%20Ovens
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Ihave installed kubuntu and have added https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports using sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntustudio-ppa/backports
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm here. How's that working?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I get: Err:9 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-ppa/backports/ubuntu disco Release
<OvenWerks>   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.95.83 80]
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's because I haven't enabled any backports for Disco since all of that is in autobuilds currently, and what's in autobuilds should be in Disco fairly soon.
<Eickmeyer> Should I enable Disco builds?
<OvenWerks> ah. ok, so I should use autobuilds?
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<OvenWerks> ok
<Eickmeyer> I was going to enable Disco after everything in Disco gets updated.
<OvenWerks> I was trying to stay as close as I could to what we tell people to do ;)
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha. That would be using Bionic or Cosmic, but since Disco is still in development there's nothing to backport for the most part.
<OvenWerks> yes that makes sense
<Eickmeyer> I just installed our default Xfce over Ubuntu vanilla. Not easy, one has to install ubuntustudio-default-settings and then install ubuntustudio-desktop if they want to go down that road. Only reason I did so is for testing and since I wasn't able to help that person with the Xfce-specific issue.
<Eickmeyer> I can't imagine that's a very common use case.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Question: How would you feel about rebasing our icon theme on the Papirus icon theme? It matches our Numix Blue default very closely, and I feel provides a nice aesthetic.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know what Papirus? means... link?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: To be perfectly honest, I don't really consider that a concern of mine. So long as it is visible.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: bug in installer  ;)
<Eickmeyer> Papirus is an icon theme in the repos: papirus-icon-theme
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What's the bug?
<OvenWerks> while installing packages, the loggin line is off centre
<OvenWerks> We added one more column to fit the extra button down below but not to that line
<OvenWerks>  Did the size of the applet change while installing for you?
<OvenWerks> (That also happens)
<Eickmeyer> Yes, I saw it, didn't consider it that big of a deal since it was working. 
<Eickmeyer> Either way, not a hard bug to fix.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Is this something you want me to fix or are you working on it?
 * Eickmeyer is heading out to run errands
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I can't work on it till I have A) gone back to my 18.04 install (work environment) B) installed a work environment in this install.
<OvenWerks> As this is a test install, I would prefer not to muck it up.
 * OvenWerks reminds Eickmeyer that he is DL a full kubuntustudio install
 * OvenWerks notes we install openshot-qt and wonders if there is a KDE version
<OvenWerks> So... the fix for non centre logging line is in usr/bin/ubuntustudio-installer line 108
<OvenWerks> the line currently reads:
<OvenWerks> grid config .info -column 1 -columnspan 3 -row 1
<OvenWerks> but should read:
<OvenWerks> grid config .info -column 1 -columnspan 4 -row 1
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the other problem (dancing width) can probably be fixed in line 107 (line above the last fix) which reads:
<OvenWerks> label .info -text "Authenticating" -height 2
<OvenWerks> This line could be changed to:
<OvenWerks> label .info -text "Authenticating" -height 2 -width 120
 * OvenWerks thinks any system since 2000 should be able to display 120 charactors across...
<OvenWerks> You can make the bug report first if you like... use a title like:
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-installer dances while installing
<OvenWerks> in the description you can add that it is not centred either
<OvenWerks> The list of packages in installer has finally DL and is unpacking.
<OvenWerks> (finally setting up)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I agree, besides if they're using pre-2000 machines while running Ubuntu Studio they need to rethink their life decisions.
<Eickmeyer> I'll go ahead and get a bug report going.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Bug 181663
<ubottu> bug 181663 in Inkscape "Font style errors / assert when changing style" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181663
<Eickmeyer> Oops, wrong bug
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Bug 1816673
<ubottu> bug 1816673 in ubuntustudio-installer "GUI dances while installing" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1816673
<OvenWerks> KDE doesn't restore my audio card  :P
<OvenWerks> I have to turn up the analog levels each time.
<Eickmeyer> That's odd. I've never had that problem.
<OvenWerks> Its an ice1712, pulse doesn't know what to play with on it :) Will have to add a save alsa levels control to controls I guess.
<OvenWerks> anyway. back to 18.04...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-02-20
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Bug 181663
<ubottu> bug 181663 in Inkscape "Font style errors / assert when changing style" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181663
<OvenWerks> opps wrong one... Eickmeyer bug 1816673 has a commit
<ubottu> bug 1816673 in ubuntustudio-installer "GUI dances while installing" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1816673
<OvenWerks> At least the changelog is right...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Perfect. I'm testing the icon theme change, which took using the version of Papirus made for Elementary (still in the same package).
<Eickmeyer> I'll mess with installer momentarily.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Installler looks good. Updating to fix committed.
<sakrecoer> i see the images posted in telegram do not appear as links in irc.... that's a potential source of massive confusion..
<sakrecoer> matrix seems to handle that a lot better, creating a link to a picture hosted on matrix.org
<sakrecoer> the riot client for matrix is pretty clean. But it suffers the same thing as any chat: useless without users :D but it's defenitly less intimidating than IRC
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> There's a way to do it with imgur that I just haven't implemented yet.
<OvenWerks> IRC - "intimidating"??? one chat is the same as the next... I type, everyone else sees.
 * OvenWerks fails to see any real difference from one chat to the next
<OvenWerks> IRC is lowest common den. anyone can use it.
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: I just implemented the Imgur upload. Was a little tricky, had to get an API ID.
<Eickmeyer> Images uploaded in Telegram now show up as imgur links in IRC.
<Eickmeyer> There are things about commnity management that are pretty much constants: you have to have people to have community, and the more people you have, the messier it gets. Unfortunately, for any project needing people like ours, that means being accessible in more ways than one.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: there is a utility called keymon that might have come in handy... it would confirm the KB was working... which it was anyway.
<OvenWerks> it seems that he needed to set the keyboard away from generic 105 to something with mm keys. then the shortcuts show up and can be changed. Maybe the default settings need to be changed in xfce though. I don't have one to play with too much, but it would be somewhere in the xfce code anyway I think.
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, I don't have an Italian keyboard, so I'm not sure I would be much help either. Seems as though it has something to do with his specific keyboard.
<OvenWerks> I think he was expecting pulse to adjust the actual alsa levels on his internal device as well. That won't happen
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> My particular take on alsa levels is that they should be set correctly and never changed after that except for physical knobs on preamps
<Eickmeyer> He strikes me as a beginner. He was using KXStudio repos too, which I think messed him up a little.
<Eickmeyer> That's my take too.
<OvenWerks> yes... there are some people who are very quick to say "Install kxstudio"
<OvenWerks> That does work well for some people.... but it does make removing it problematic if it doesn't suit someones needs
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<Eickmeyer> The people who are saying "Install KXStudio" aren't paying attention to what we've been doing.
<Eickmeyer> I see it a lot in #opensourcemusicians
<Eickmeyer> holstein, in particular, has said repeatedly that "Ubuntu Studio should be sunsetted".
<OvenWerks> holstein left angry
<Eickmeyer> Yep, and he's still bitter, even though things are much different now.
<OvenWerks> he was suggesting things to many people based on old info and was asked to stop
<Eickmeyer> Well, his biggest problem, at least last time I was talking in that channel, was that the documentation was outdated.
<OvenWerks> prolly true...
<Eickmeyer> It is, but how many of us have time to update it?
<OvenWerks> documentation is not easy to keep up.
<Eickmeyer> Exactly.
<Eickmeyer> bbl, have to take the dog out.
<Eickmeyer> Maybe documentation is something we can work on during feature freeze.
<Eickmeyer> I mean, in addition to bug fixes.
<OvenWerks> what bugs ;)
<Eickmeyer> Riiiiiiight.
<Eickmeyer> ;)
<ViperChief> Good afternoon/evening, all.
<Eickmeyer> ViperChief: Hi!
<ViperChief> Just the guy I was hoping would show up. :)
<ViperChief> Just finished listening to your interview on Destination Linux.
<Eickmeyer> Awesome. That was fun.
<Eickmeyer> I've known Michael and Noah for quite some time now, and it was great finally being invited on.
<ViperChief> It was awesome! And it made me want to reach out.
<ViperChief> I've spent the last few years keeping an eye out for a project that I might be able to help out with. I have a very specific set of skills.
<Eickmeyer> I read that in Liam Neeson's voice.
<ViperChief> Excellent. My job here is done. Good night, folks.
<ViperChief> Wait...
<Eickmeyer> Haha!
<ViperChief> I was thinking of reaching out and then you started talking about publicity and then packaging. Turns out that I was on the steering committee of a different distro a few years back and my primary role was heading up PR
<ViperChief> My secondary role was packaging.
<ViperChief> Also did support and managing the wiki, etc.
<ViperChief> Anyway, I've been wanting to get involved but it seems harder than it should be. I knew I definitely wanted to be with a small and tight team for sure.
<Eickmeyer> Per your cloak, you led communications for Fuduntu?
<ViperChief> I've been exposed!
<ViperChief> But, yes.
<Eickmeyer> Cool. So, are you most familiar with packaging for RPM or DEB or both?
<ViperChief> RPM, but I've done a little deb and pretty sure I could get the hang of it somewhat quickly.
<ViperChief> We were RPM based.
<Eickmeyer> Having come from RPM myself, there is quite a learning curve.
<Eickmeyer> That said, OvenWerks and I were just talking about how we really need to clean up the documentation on the wiki.
<ViperChief> The weird part is I've done more RPM but I prefer deb distros. :|
<ViperChief> Anything in particular or just kind of overall?
<Eickmeyer> Mostly overall. The most recent was the audio handbook, but there's a lot of things on there that don't even need to be there anymoe.
<Eickmeyer> How familiar with Ubuntu Studio are you as far as operation in terms of audio?
<ViperChief> I'll admit not a lot (read: any).  I've always been interested in that kind of stuff, but never had a real excuse. I'm pretty familiar with Ubuntu and Linux in general.
<ViperChief> However, I will learn what I need to in order to get the job done and worth with I can do (such as learning the packaging, helping out the wiki and whatever else I can).
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Are you on Launchpad?
<ViperChief> I am. https://launchpad.net/~eliasward
<Eickmeyer> Okay. I just added you to the documentation team, which means you can sign in to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ and feel free to edit as needed. If you have questions, you know where to find me. I'm also on Telegram.
<Eickmeyer> I'll also add you to Public Relations & Support.
<Eickmeyer> Also, would you mind helping with support in the main #ubuntustudio channel?
<ViperChief> Awesome! Do you have any recommendations on a good guide for building DEB? I can go get some learning in.
<Eickmeyer> Basically.. http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/
<ViperChief> Absolutely. I'm actually going to install it tonight so I can get a feel for all the programs (also, the idea of being able to convert any flavor is awesome because I also am a Plasma fanboi)
<ViperChief> Perfect. Thank you.
<Eickmeyer> Haha! What's funny is that I have to switch back and forth between Xfce and other things since our default is Xfce, so I've been spending a lot of time in GNOME and Xfce since when I switch between Plasma and anything else, I have to sign-in to everything in Chrome again.
<Eickmeyer> A bit annoying.
<ViperChief> I kind of use a blend. i3 on my home laptop, GNOME for my work laptop and Plasma for my desktop. I've been reading about using i3 and xfce together. This might be my excuse to try it out. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-02-21
<studiobot> <Sakrecoer> hehe, ovenwerks: text is the lowest common denominator in chat. I would agree that IRC is easy, but i'm not affraid of slash-commands, and i understand what it means to chose the freenode server or the undernet server :)
 * OvenWerks will be dealing with family kinds of things for a while.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-02-22
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think that -controls needs a part that disables cadence.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I completely and 100% agree. Perhaps we need to fix the packaging to uninstall. Also, have it detect for anything in ~/.pulse and remove it, or at least have the option. Or something. We need to, basically, have it kill Cadence with fire if it's installed.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we need to A) install a cadence.desktop file in ~/.config/autostart that has a don't run line init, B) stop the running process C) remove the user's pulse configure D) start pulse E) finally -controls can do it's thing.
<Eickmeyer> Is that something we can add as a button to -controls? (Fix user audio configuration)
<OvenWerks> To re-enable cadence , just remove the *.desktop we installed and re login
<OvenWerks> or remove the desktop file and start cadence as an app.
<Eickmeyer> As it is right now, -controls can't even be installed at the same time, meaning Cadence has to be removed first. iirc, we did that deliberately.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would not add a button to fix the config. I would just do that and maybe add a dialog that explains that the two can not run together and so it is being disabled.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  then add a button to re enable cadence.
<Eickmeyer> Okay, that sounds good.
<OvenWerks> Not sure when I will get to that... have a death in the family and so dealing with all that brings
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: speaking of installers... did we add libjack-jackd2-dev to audio core?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I don't believe we did. 
<Eickmeyer> Would that prevent jack (1) from being installed?
<Eickmeyer> (I realize that's the goal)
<OvenWerks> well maybe, I think installing libjack-dev may still do odd things... maybe we can blaklist it somewhere?
<Eickmeyer> I think the only way to do that is by putting a Conflicts: line in ubuntustudio-audio-core.
<OvenWerks> Would that stop "Software" from removing core?
<Eickmeyer> Yes. But, just FYI, I tried installing libjack-dev from the command line, and it completely blocked it, so I think we're already good.
<Eickmeyer>  libjack-dev : Depends: libjack0 (= 1:0.125.0-3build1) but it is not going to be installed
<Eickmeyer> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<Eickmeyer> If someone installs libjack0, however, then it looks like it will try to switch to jackd1.
<OvenWerks> There is no reason to do that, it is just the people who want to build a jack application. when building thing the common thing is to find the lib* package and just install the lib*-dev package
<Eickmeyer> That's true. So, should we not worry about it then?
<Eickmeyer> I mean, since it's already blocked.
 * OvenWerks shrugs
<OvenWerks> I really don't know.
<OvenWerks> I will be glad when falktx has depricated jackd1
<Eickmeyer> Installing libjack0 removes -controls, -default-settings, -dekstop, -desktop-core, -installer, and -menu.
<OvenWerks> (yes that is the plan)
<Eickmeyer> So, right now, if you force libjack-dev to install, it will remove things that make Ubuntu Studio... Studio. It also removes qjackctl, qtractor, ardour, gladish,... basically everything.
<OvenWerks> -controls won't work with jackd1 (though it could be made to)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, uh, let's not.
<OvenWerks>  ;)
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<OvenWerks> I would rather suggest to "Ubuntu" that the jackd1 packages not be in the repo...
<OvenWerks> but there are a (very) few cases where jackd1 does make sense
<Eickmeyer> It seems to be harder to remove a package once it's in the repo.
<OvenWerks> falktx is working to add those things to jackd2 and retire jackd1... (he now maintains both)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I think moving Carla to it's 2.0 version is part of that. I don't know what else he's using jackd1 for.
<OvenWerks> Paul stopped maintaining jackd1 and opened it up for someone to take over, falktx took it over and is working to make it so only one version is needed
<OvenWerks> I expect jackd1 will eventually vanish due to bitrot. (at least in an official way)
<Eickmeyer> Ala Patchage.
<Eickmeyer> (as we're trying to do)
<OvenWerks> Patchage still works for me.
<Eickmeyer> Same, but bitrot.
<OvenWerks> patchage has new commits as of last month...
<Eickmeyer> Wait.. whut?
 * Eickmeyer is shocked
<OvenWerks> http://git.drobilla.net/cgit.cgi/patchage.git/log/
<OvenWerks> maybe the debian package has the wrong upstream url?
<Eickmeyer> It's possible, but does this negate getting Carla to replace it?
<OvenWerks> I don't think it matters. I would leave patchage around anyway... 
<Eickmeyer> Okay. In that case, we need to comment on that bug report Ross created.
<OvenWerks> Starting Carla to make patching changes in jackd seem counter intuitive
 * Eickmeyer does it all the time
<Eickmeyer> IMO, it's a better patchbay.
<OvenWerks> The problem is that there is no new release in the past 3 years
<Eickmeyer> I was just about to mention that. More like 5 years. http://drobilla.net/category/patchage/
<OvenWerks> tag name	v1.0.0 (5df1c18dde1d1eb9ad0caac9440c8e9bbba0de10)
<Eickmeyer> That might be why Debian's package hasn't seen anything.
<OvenWerks> tag date	2015-11-13 20:09:30 -0500
<OvenWerks> The one we have is from 2015
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<Eickmeyer> Still, that's some really slow development.
 * Eickmeyer sigs
<Eickmeyer> *sighs
<Eickmeyer> Well, what do you recommend?
<OvenWerks> Not that there is a lot to keep it current
<Eickmeyer> True. But, should we drop it or keep it?
<OvenWerks> If it is not broken in the new cycle it is ok. If it starts breaking, then A) bug david for a new release or B) ask debian to use master C) use master in Ubuntu.
<OvenWerks> So keep it.
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<OvenWerks> Does it pull in libs that nothing else uses?
<Eickmeyer> I don't think so... I could check.
<Eickmeyer> Or, either of us could.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, if we want to keep it, then we need to comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1817262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1817262 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Drop Patchage from Ubuntu Studio seeds once Carla is uploaded" [Undecided,New]
<Eickmeyer> And https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1817264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1817264 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Upload Carla as a replacement for patchage " [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> libgtk2.0-0?
<Eickmeyer> No, there's a ton of xfce stuff that depends on that.
<Eickmeyer> Not to mention Ardour and Audacity among others.
<OvenWerks> Right I would just change the title of the bug that CXarla replaces jackrack
<Eickmeyer> That's probably better. It definitely replaces jackrack, which I can't get to work properly ever.
<OvenWerks> Which was my original reason for suggesting Carla
<Eickmeyer> I see.
<OvenWerks> changed the topic
<OvenWerks> So di you :)
<OvenWerks> (actually it is jack-rack)
<Eickmeyer> Fixed the other bug too (for meta).
<Eickmeyer> He'll get the message.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-02-17
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So glad to see you back!!!
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> no I havn't doen anything for a week.
<OvenWerks> I could have I guess, but no access to do much
<Eickmeyer> What happened? Last I saw you your client had timed-out.
<OvenWerks> Our telco basically decied not to serve us any more.
<OvenWerks> We were doing adsl through a second company beside the the teco who paid for use of their line
<OvenWerks> the telco has changed all te phones in this area to fiber but left our inet on the copper... I guess the deal is, even though they promise adsl will not be effected, that after a while they "loose" the port and want $10 extra per month to get it back.
<OvenWerks>  or $30 more per month to switch to fibre
<OvenWerks> ... So we are now on cable and I expect our land line will go digital as well...
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I see.
<Eickmeyer> That's crazy, and not unlike a telco.
<OvenWerks> well they were getting paid for two services... maybe none any more
<OvenWerks> by the time we move away the gear they put in for the fibre may be too old to use too...
<OvenWerks> course the telco may be gone first if they mess with too many people 
<Eickmeyer> Areound here all they do is pay off the government more and the government looks the other way.
<OvenWerks> It looks like I can go digital (VoIP) for about the same cost for a year what I am paying per month right now.
<OvenWerks> The one advantage the telco had (worked even with power otu) is now gone as the fibre end requires power.
<OvenWerks> So I guess the cell phone is now emergency line anyway
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep, that's what we do.
<OvenWerks> Now that my server is dhcp instead of pppoe might be a goos time to switch the server to the "new" box which is 64bit... instead of the P4
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oooo, yeah, probably.
<OvenWerks> new one is a two core Atom based board... not good for much else besides server anyway.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Still 64 bit is better.
<OvenWerks> The atom has 100m ethernet ports, I think the P4 has 10m NICs
<OvenWerks> And our net work service is now more than 10m
<OvenWerks> I'll check, downloading an ISO now :)
<OvenWerks> hmm, maybe the old box has 100 M too
<OvenWerks> This is about 10 times faster
<OvenWerks> just so you know, my wife is away fro a few weeks and my son has surgery as well. My mind may well be else where.
<OvenWerks> off and on.
<Eickmeyer[m]> That's just fine. Feature freeze is a week from Sunday, so that's the deadline for the wacom stuff, otherwise we'll have to revert the commit(s) and go with what we've got. :/
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: And, sorry for the silence, I was watching a movie with my family.
<OvenWerks> NP
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-02-21
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: How's things?
<OvenWerks> just got my son home from surgery
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, how is he?
<OvenWerks> I think my wife is in the philppines but have not heard from her yet :)
<OvenWerks> he is ok, groggy of course
<Eickmeyer[m]> Of course.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Wanted to touch base about -controls. Where are we at with that?
<OvenWerks> GUI looks good, I think, it is just a matter of setting variables in the config and using that to test if the device is there and set it...
<OvenWerks> The getting my wife ready to leave has left me pretty worn out.
<OvenWerks> emotionally if not anythingn else. But at least I am getting more sleep
<Eickmeyer[m]> I totally get that. Just to let you know, since the tablet support is a new feature, the deadline is in one week. I do, however, understand family is first, and taking care of yourself as well.
<OvenWerks> I know, I am hoping to get back to it before then.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Cool.
<Eickmeyer[m]> But, do take care of yourself and your family.
<OvenWerks>  It will not be "complete" but what it shows should work.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Right. I think if we at least get the "feature" in and then work the bugs out before beta freeze, I think we'll be in good shape.
<OvenWerks> ya
<Eickmeyer[m]> If anyone wants to check out the entries in the wallpaper contest: https://imgur.com/t/ubustucontest2020 (the ones in portrait orientation are already disqualified). @azbulutlu
<Eickmeyer[m]> @azbulutlu: It appears as though there's some activity involving MyPaint in Debian, but they have yet to release 2.0 into Debian. Considering feature freeze/debian import freeze is in less than a week, I doubt it will make it in time. It uses libmypaint1.5 as opposed to 2.0 that gimp uses, so it'll be coinstallable. We might be able to backport it.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: with reasoning you might be able to get it in after FF
<studiobot> <teward001> import freeze shuts off the autosync
<studiobot> <teward001> but that's a release team decision not mine :P
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 [Eickmeyer: with reasoning you might be able to get it in after FF], That all depends on how quickly Debian gets it done.
<studiobot> <teward001> true
<studiobot> <teward001> though... we could diverge and JFDI
<studiobot> <teward001> which is how nginx came to be permanently deltaed in Server
<studiobot> <teward001> merging later will be a pain but
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I thought about it, but we haven't carried MyPaint in Studio since before 18.10 due to the confilct with gimp. MyPaint 2.0 removes that conflict, but I'm not 100% interested in it since we carry Krita.
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-02-22
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I think he borked his install during install by failing to read the release notes. :/
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> re mypaint if it gets in it gets in, if not as you said there is the backport. thats all we can do... :) mypaint is just amazing for sketching (it is an infinite canvas software which krita isn't. so they are not direct alternatives to each other).
<RikMills> doesn't look co-installable to me. looks like a library transition where gimp would need to be rebuilt for the bumped soname
<RikMills> ok. current gimp would fail to build with the new mypaint lib/brushes, so that is a blocker in debian and us
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Except gimp specifies libmypaint2.0 and Mypaint specifies libmypaint1.5, so why couldn't the two be coinstallable? Unless the soname is an issue.
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: gimp in focal currently depends: libmypaint-1.3-0 (>= 1.3.0)
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Ok, so are the two libraries coinstallable or is someone in Debian being super dumb about this?
<RikMills> which is because that is what it build with. replace that with libmypaint-1.5-1 required for new mypaint, amd gimp would have to be recompiled to work with that
<RikMills> actually it is not so much the lib that rebuilding gimp has an issue with, but more the mypaint-brushes version
<RikMills> but they all need to be shipped for the transition to build new mypaint
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I'm asking this because Fedora seems to have figured it out by having both mypaint-brushes versions coinstallable. Why can't Debian do the same?
<Eickmeyer> (and both libmypaint versions)
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: See: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages
<RikMills> debian is not fedora ;?
<Eickmeyer> Yes, but the principle is still there.
<Eickmeyer> It all comes down to the packaging.
<RikMills> it always is, but point is at the moment it will crash and burn which is why that stuff is in experimental
<Eickmeyer> Well, I'm not sweating it too much, but it's an issue that has been going on for two years that nobody has figured out and I don't have the influence in Debian to tell people to make stuff coninstallable. Seems like the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing on this.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, we have people installing gimp from PPAs that have figured out how to make it coninstallable with MyPaint.
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: same issue with fuse3. It is v annoying
<Eickmeyer> And then filing bug reports against that gimp package when it crashes, filling launchpad with useless bug reports that get reported to us because gimp is in the packageset.
<Eickmeyer> I get at least two emails a day about gimp because someone improperly reported a bug against the gimp that's in the PPA (skipping-over ubuntu-bug/apport).
<RikMills> Eickmeyer: PPAs are an 'overlay' which means you can gave a lib from that and a different version from the ubuntu primary archive installed AT THE SAME TIME as long as there is no file conflict. We can;t so that in the ubuntu main archive without renaming the source package
<RikMills> *have a lib
<Eickmeyer> Right. Either way, it's annoying.
<RikMills> It is
<studiobot> <teward001> (this was the headache I had to encounter with a filesystem compat lib/toolset in Debian - vmfs-tools and vmfs6-tools achieve much of the same 'goals' but with different compat levels for VMware filesystems - the first request was to make coinstallable.)
<studiobot> <teward001> (but that was pain :P)
<RikMills> easiest hope is gimp do a bugfix version to work with new mypaint sources 
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu So, there's our answer, probably not going to happen. :/
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu Did you ever have a chance to design a new default wallpaper?
