#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-09
<hamitron> Azelphur: the dude is on the same /8 network
<Azelphur> hamitron, ?
<hamitron> class A
<hamitron> is he not?
<hamitron> I did a traceroute
<Azelphur> hamitron, you mean on stevo from my server? he was connected through a VPN otherwise he wouldn't have been able to be connected XD
<hamitron> he said what IP range he gets on his ISP
<Azelphur> oh yea ok
<Azelphur> and yea, he says his entire range is dropped
<Azelphur> and a few of his friends can't get on
<hamitron> and that is the same network as the router that is your first hop iirc
<Azelphur> hamitron, yea, I get theplanet for that IP
<Azelphur> hamitron, his IP ( 69.119.15.146 ) is weird, if I put it in dnsstuff it redirects to a completely different IP o.O
<Canaimero-e8d> quayudame para intalar Adobe Flash Player
<Canaimero-e8d> Adobe Flash Player
<ali1234> advent vega: is it any good?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYtWxTGevO8
<ali1234> why does every version of ubuntu insist on making it impossible to tell which window is focused?
<Myrtti> xfce â¥
<ali1234> yes, xfce too
<Myrtti> although I thought the window borders and titles do change colour in Ubuntu too when focused?
<ali1234> title bars of focused/unfocused windows are exactly the same
<ali1234> they don't even *have* borders any more in ubuntu
<ali1234> xubuntu has borders, but they don't change in any way when you focus a window
<Myrtti> then you've got something misconfigured
<ali1234> i just installed xubuntu 11.04
<ali1234> i literally logged in about 2 minutes ago for the first time after rebooting from the installer
<ali1234> i have not touched any config at all yet
<ali1234> everything uses this greybird theme where everything is grey
<ali1234> *everything*
<Myrtti> meh, I don't even have time to dig configs for you, need to go to the doctors to learn how to inject myself :-/
<Myrtti> stupid Klexane, stupid transatlantic flights
<ali1234> damn
<ali1234> i thought i got rid of global menus
<ali1234> but apparently virtualbox has them hardcoded somehow
<ali1234> well that sucks
<ali1234> in xfce you can't turn off icons in application menus without losing icons on the start menu
<ali1234> you can turn off icons in the start menu and have icons in app menus though
 * gord has started counting the number if times i have to sleep before i can go home
<TheOpenSourcerer> That good eh gord ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, UDS is good! i have just been here for a week already is all :) i miss all my stuff
<Pendulum> gord: did you remember to bring tea this time/
<Pendulum> ?
<gord> nope! but cztab reminded me so managed to bring some
<Pendulum> :)
<gord> Pendulum, enjoying the uk? hoping the sun has lasted
<Pendulum> well it's rained for part of the day the last 2 where I've been
<Pendulum> but it looks at least somewhat sunny atm
<gord> :( it was so sunny when i left
<czajkowski> gord: i have a use
<Pendulum> gord: I think it might be where I am, don't worry :P
<Laptop11-04> hello i have a problem with my wireless card. when i installed ubuntu the card was set as UNCLAIMED under "lshw -C network"  i cant seem to get it to work, i even tried to install a windows driver on it with ndisgtk  but that failed. this card works under other linux distros. why wont ubuntu use it  ??
<ali1234> well xubuntu was a waste of my time
<ali1234> ok, according to firefox "reminds" isn't a word
<Laptop11-04> what do you mean according to firefox
<ali1234> firefox has a spell checker
<ali1234> it rejects "reminds"
<Laptop11-04> not here
<gord> keynote time - not sure if we are live streaming it this time
<Pendulum> gord: chatting in #ubuntu-uds says yes
<Pendulum> or at least that it's supposed to
<ali1234> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/ ?
<gord> when it starts i would assume
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> \o/ New PC at work
<DJones> I'll have to have a day off more often
<BigRedS> whoo!
<DJones> Now to finish installing all my non-work related apps
<Neoti> ok so i upgraded to ubuntu 11.04.... and since then... internet browsing is slow..... also when my screen saver comes on and i VNC in to this computer from another location sometimes the computer just freezes up and i have to reboot it ... even if i go back in front of the computer i move the mouse it moves but the screen is still just frozen on the gnome foot screen saver.... .... any one else experianced this ?
<Laptop11-04> hello i have a problem with my wireless card. when i installed ubuntu the card was set as UNCLAIMED under "lshw -C network"  i cant seem to get it to work, i even tried to install a windows driver on it with ndisgtk  but that failed. this card works under other linux distros. why wont ubuntu use it  ad how can i fix this  ??
<wintellect> Mornin all
<_serial_> morning fellow virginmedia user
<wintellect> :)
<wintellect> You happy with their service _serial_ ?
<_serial_> its not bad on 10Mb but i hear bad things about 30Mb superhub thing
<wintellect> really?
<_serial_> are you?
<wintellect> No, I'm 10Mb and happy with it
<_serial_> yeah, something about there firmware not being up to scratch
<wintellect> :(
<_serial_> http://m.forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2011/02/22/virgin_media_superhub_fail/ if your interested... theres a little section on el reg but i cant find it @dmo
<popey> I have a superhub
<popey> works fine
<wintellect> popey: what's the upload speed on those?
<_serial_> did you have to update the firmware a few times to get the download speed they offered?
<popey> I am on 30Mb/s down, 3Mb/s up
<popey> no
<_serial_> one of the rare few according to the www...
<wintellect> nice, 3Mb up   -   popey can now be a Ubuntu mirror for me :P
<popey> hah
<_serial_> :D sounds like a good idea winintellect
<wintellect> :D
<wintellect> well, it'll stop me asking popey "Is it libe yet" on release days :P
<wintellect> live*
<Neoti> ok so i upgraded to ubuntu 11.04.... and since then... internet browsing is slow..... also when my screen saver comes on and i VNC in to this computer from another location sometimes the computer just freezes up and i have to reboot it ... even if i go back in front of the computer i move the mouse it moves but the screen is still just frozen on the gnome foot screen saver.... .... any one else experianced this ?
<Stealthy> how do i install a driver on ubuntu 11.04
<wintellect> Stealthy: which driver do you want/need?
<BigRedS> Stealthy: it depends upon the driver
<oimon> grrr the hinge has snapped on my dell laptop and dell won't replace it despite being under warranty
<Stealthy> wintellect   ndiswrapper -a 168c:0013 ath5k    it says ath5k isnt installed properly
<wintellect> don't know about ndiswrapper, sorry
<wintellect> oimon: :O   bsd dell! Bad, bad dell!
<oimon> they are asking Â£85 for a replacement
<popey> Clutch on my car has gone phut
<oimon> broken things suck :(
<oimon> how much for the new clutch popey?
<BigRedS> I've spent the past few years earning a living off of people having broken things...
<popey> 300 quid he reckons
<Stealthy> oimon unless its a vacuum cleaner :P
<oimon> btw i bought a casio f91w recently too! there seems to have been a bit of a run on them since the news article, loads of geeks born in the 70s realised they were still being made and bought one
<popey> :)
<ali1234> being an 80s child i always wanted the casio calculator watch
<oimon> i have a posh watch but never wear it
<oimon> the casio fits my needs exactly
<oimon> a real mans watch
 * oimon buys a screen hinge for 10% of the price dell were asking
<TheOpenSourcerer> The garage collected my Volvo this morning for its service and MOT. Bloke reckoned my car was only worth Â£500 :-)
<dogmatic69> what Volvo is that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> V70 2.4Turbo
<dogmatic69> how old is it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "V" reg approx 120K miles
<dogmatic69> like 20 yo?
<dogmatic69> should have taken the 500 and run :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah 1999/00
<dogmatic69> ah, second time round V reg
<dogmatic69> loads on the net for ~ 2k
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm thinking of getting a new car
<oimon> any car with an MOT is worth Â£250
<AlanBell> worth that without an MOT actually
<oimon> i gave my gold away when it got to that stage
<oimon> gold=golf
<AlanBell> I got Â£232.50 selling my Avensis by weight for scrap
<oimon> wow
<AlanBell> volvo would be at least Â£4567898765.00 on that scale
<dogmatic69> lol
<oimon> i was very sad to sell my last year because it worked great but was too small for a family :(
<oimon> i had a seat ibiza since brand new, although i have a focus estate now, and pretty happy with it
<simondbull> My friend has a 1996 Ford Escort white van which he claims to be the best vehicle around, and the fastest, best ting ever !! lol
<ahayzen> Lol ... thts crazy
<simondbull> yh, its a wreck!!
<ahayzen> haha
<simondbull> why are we on irc when we are right next to each other!?
<ahayzen> dunno ..lol
<ali1234> i downloaded the alternate cd instead of the desktop cd for xubuntu
<ali1234> i wondered why it used the text installer when i installed it in vb
<oimon> is there any news about that bug regarding power issues in natty? i don't know the bug #
<ali1234> bug 760131
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 760131 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Power consumption raised significantly in natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760131
<popey> its an upstream kernel bug
<popey> AIUI
<oimon> boo
<oimon> bug '760131
<ahayzen> There was an article here as well...http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_natty_power&num=1
<oimon> bug #760131
<oimon> the bot is sleeping
<popey> just type the number
<oimon> 760131
<popey> no need for other characters
<popey> with bug
<dogmatic69> :D
<oimon> punches himself in the face
<oimon> bug 760131
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 760131 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Power consumption raised significantly in natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760131
<ali1234> my experience of xubuntu so far has been quite poor
<oimon> default theme?
<ali1234> the default theme sucks yes
<ali1234> but then so does the one on ubuntu
<krimzon2> shame the shortcuts was an ordinary panel that you have to manually add launchers to
<oimon> lucid default theme is only 5 minutes work though
<oimon> kde 3.5.x used to be a weeks work
<ali1234> the thing at the bottom? deleted that straight away
<oimon> switch the panel with docky et voila
<ali1234> unfortunately you can't customize the menu
<ali1234> docks are crap
<ali1234> if i wanted a dock i would use unity :/
<oimon> thats a launcher :D
<ali1234> no, it's a dock, on the side
<krimzon2> i'd like a dock but only if it only showed the currently open apps on the current workspace
<ali1234> you can tell it's a dock because it has that broken behaviour of using the same icon for launching and switching between apps
<ali1234> actually yes, only showing current workspace would be a huge improvement for unity
<ali1234> probably the easiest to implement change with the biggest result
<oimon> that's funny since i use the dock for the opposite
<ali1234> the most anoying thing in unity is when you are doing something with a bunch of windows and you want to do something else
<ali1234> so you go to a new workspace and click for a new terminal
<ali1234> but it just zaps you back to the one you were just using
<oimon> i keep liferea on another workspace,  but i don't siwtch workspaces manually, i just click the icon on docky
<krimzon2> yeah, that's really annoying
<ali1234> i don't use lifera or any of that junk
<krimzon2> gnome 2 has a single panel icon that pops up a list of everything on all desktops for that kind of thing
<ahayzen> @ali1234 you know that if you middle click on the icon in the launcher it will open a new window of that item...
<ali1234> ahayzen: yes i know, so now i only ever middle click
<ahayzen> rather than switching to it
<oimon> unity desperately needs the right click option to choose which window from a list e.g. if you have 20 terminals , you don't want expose view, you want to look at a list instead and choose one
<ahayzen> lol
<ali1234> but this means i have to way of switching between windows
<ali1234> *no
<ali1234> usually i have 3 or 4 terminals, 1 or 2 firefox windows, and maybe a gedit on each workspace
<ali1234> anyway i'm not testing unity today
<ali1234> i'm testing replacements
<ali1234> starting with xubuntu
<ahayzen> same.. it doesn't usually seem to bad...
<oimon> i'd like to try a really customized kde sometime
<oimon> i never know where to start customizing kde4
<ali1234> i tried customizing KDE for like a week
<ali1234> i got it to almost usable
<ali1234> but there are some things you just can't fix
<oimon> amarok :(
<krimzon2> trouble with kde is I always start with trying to change the window border to one I like
<ali1234> lol, yes, amarok being one of them
<oimon> what a shame about amarok - summed up the whole kde4 thing really for me
<ali1234> i managed to get windows, menus, icons, and theme to be quite nice
<ali1234> oimon: it sums it up so well that i trot out a screenshot of it any time someone says they like KDE
<popey> :)
<ali1234> and i'm about to do it again right now
<popey> I recall that screenshot
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail.png
<popey> here it comes
<popey> there it is!
<oimon> ugh my eyes
<ali1234> to be fair it's nowhere enar that bad any more
<oimon> too late though
<oimon> amark 1.4 was a joy to use
<oimon> i still use k3b on gnome
<ali1234> i think i am coming around to some features of unity you know
<oimon> had some disasters with brasero
<ali1234> the dash (searching) is quite good
<ali1234> and i like the way it puts everything in the top bar when you maximize
<MartijnVdS> Except it never finds what I'm looking for
<krimzon2> searching is handy but sometimes I know which app I want and just want to launch it with a click or two
<oimon> bono ^^
<ali1234> yeah i agree
<ali1234> but with kde and xfce i really miss having the three menus
<oimon> i imagine new users will feel like i do when i have a use a mac
<ali1234> apps places settings
<ali1234> i don't like having to drill through the extra level of menus when they just have the single top level button, which they all do
 * wintellect finds the app "dmenu" very good in his minimalist window manager
<ali1234> i especially don't like the new "control center" thing where you have to go through a bunch of menus, and then you get a new app with all settigs ever
<ali1234> and a weird fowards/backwards thing that isn't like any other apps
<ali1234> i always close the damn thing by mistake and then have to launch it again, because the settings are never divided up in a logical way so i have to keep switching between two sub panels
<krimzon2> I like centralized settings
<ali1234> of course you can;t have more than one copy of it open, that would be too easy
<oimon> i find the dash super ugly
<oimon> i thought the grey and huge icons were just placeholders for the duration of the beta
<krimzon2> I don't get why it doesn't use the whole screen at first until you click the thing in the corner
<ali1234> yes, it should rembber if you maximize it once
<ali1234> but i can see that it does have some improvements now
<ali1234> ok rebooting in to xubuntu live cd...
<ali1234> oh wait, i should copy it to usb first :)
<ali1234> oimon: here's my configured KDE: http://imagebin.org/152473
<oimon> ali1234: interesting
<ali1234> that's using qtcurve theme and a huge amount of customizations to turn off the worst of kde
<ali1234> i never figured out how to make font rendering not suck but i think that's down to opensuse more than anythign else
<oimon> i was wondering about the font
<oimon> looks a bit...weedy
<ali1234> i had to download ubuntu font manually and install it
<oimon> doesn't look right
<ali1234> yes, their font hinting doesn't seem to be configurable
<ali1234> there's a config window, but it doesn't do anything
<oimon> i don't know what apple do but their fonts and windows always look crisp
<ali1234> if you make the font 1 point bigger then it gets really heavy
<ali1234> so heavy in fact that there's no different between bold and normal
<ali1234> it's all about font hinting
<ali1234> there'sa good website that explains it
<ali1234> it explains why everyone but apple sucks at it
<oimon> ali1234: which version of kde4?
<ali1234> that's 4.6.3 i think
<ali1234> oh no, 4.6.0
<oimon> "To sum up, in Qt 4.5 we should honor more of the font config settings, including lcd filter and hinting style. However, unless you explicitly change the LCD filter or hinting style things should look basically the same as in Qt 4.4."
<oimon> http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2008/09/01/subpixel-antialiasing-on-x11/
<ali1234> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/06/whats-wrong-with-apples-font-rendering.html
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> nothing is wrong with it
<ali1234> those screenshots... the apple one clearly looks a lot better than the ie7 one
<oimon> i'm not sure if a screenshot like that helps
<oimon> it's out of context
<ali1234> here you go: http://antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/
<oimon> windows 7 is terrible at it. one of my staff moved onto win7 and said there was a problem with his new 22inch monitor, could he have the old 17inch one back
<ali1234> most detailed treatment of the problem i've seen
<oimon> turned out it was windows7 putting a shadow behind text on the desktop shortcut names etc - it looked terrible and unreadable
<ali1234> see especially the "gamma does not work" part
<ali1234> ok xubuntu time
<gord> this hotel is big, still, its too small for this UDS. too many people in too small rooms
<ali1234> do you all have rooms in the same hotel as the conf?
<ali1234> cos that's like, luxury, man
<ali1234> normally i have to walk for half an hour to get from hotel to conf
<gord> always, hotels with conference centres
<popey> not always :)
<popey> Google.
<ali1234> i must be going to the wrong confs
<gord> always in the last few years :)
<popey> :)
<gord> now Mariana is in charge. it makes sense
<gord> all the rooms here sound like ikea names, no chance i'm ever gonna be able to join the channel name for each room
<gord> oh, bt sent me an email saying that infinity is in my area. tempt me not foul beast.
<oimon> chromium have nasty fonts in some text entry forms - firefox looks nicer
<ali1234> pidgin by default... that's worth some points
<ali1234> but how do i get dual head to work?
<oimon> xubuntu?
<ali1234> i mean it works but both monitors show the same thing and there doesn't seem to be any way to change that
<oimon> lol
<ali1234> yes
<oimon> the problem with xubuntu is that i've never tried it on a decent machine
<ali1234> lol. it detects both monitors, even lets me change the wallpaper independently
<ali1234> the problem is it draws everything from both monitors on both monitors :(
<ali1234> jockey doesn't offer me nvidia in xubuntu? how odd
<ali1234> installing it manually, maybe it will help
<ali1234> all the fonts are really tiny
<DJones> If ali1234 was still here, I'd have said, isn't that to be expected for a smaller /lighter distribution :)
<Tommeh> So, today I've switched back to using Unity
<Tommeh> As I apt-get autoremove'd and didn't notice gnome-shell (and deps) getting uninstalled.
<Tommeh> So haven't got a lot of choice :)
<BigRedS> I'm mulling an upgrade to 11.04
<Tommeh> But, I'm not hating it quite as much as I was....
<BigRedS> Gnome 3 was irritating the hell out of me yesterday
<Tommeh> It's pretty bare
<Tommeh> I was happy enough using it but..
<Tommeh> My chief bugbear with Unity was the awkward behaviour when switching between workspaces with a mouse
<ali1234> ok getting somewhere... nvidia driver is working, dual head is working correctly
<Tommeh> But I've noticed that I just have to get used to click on the app I want to find on another workspace, rather than just click the workspace.
<Tommeh> Like that .. It's better.
<ali1234> unfortunately there is no interface to configure it in xfce
<oimon> still thinking about that Â£15 raspberry pi device that i read about last week...hope it comes to fruition
<ali1234> Tommeh: it fails quite badly when you have 5 terminals open on each workspace
<ali1234> ha ha fruition
<ali1234> iswydt
<oimon> :D
<Tommeh> lol, haven't quite got there yet. I tend to keep one terminal window open and have multiple tabs :)
<ali1234> it fails fairly badly when you have exactly 1 terminal open on each workspace, tabs or not
<oimon> ali1234: someone will write a tweak soon to allow choosing terminal from a list then will all be happy
<ali1234> well as long as it works for all apps
<ali1234> cos firefox has the same problem
<Tommeh> ali1234: and I have (currently) no common use-case scenario where tabs aren't an option in one terminal window.
<Tommeh> Which is what I'm getting at
<ali1234> then you have no use for workspaces either
<Tommeh> However I hope that the situation you're describing gets fixed.
<Tommeh> ali1234: whatever :)
<ali1234> it's just as bad with firefox
<oimon> tabs in terminals suck
<ali1234> especially when you click it, and it takes you to the @downloads@ window
<ali1234> cos that's the only @firefox@ window you have open
<oimon> especially when you are comparing data in 2 or 3 terminals
<ali1234> that's going to bug people who don't know about middle click
<ali1234> cos the download window doesn't have a menu wth @new window@ in it
<ali1234> btw sorry about @, stupid live cd has american kb layout
<ali1234> yes tabs are useless when you need terminals side by side
<ali1234> i open and close terminals often to terminator isn't an option either
<ali1234> ugh... put panel on second xfce display, mess up icons on first display
<ali1234> this is not polished
<ali1234> i don't have much faith that xfce can properly handle dual head :(
<ali1234> oh well pressing on
<ali1234> lets see how it handles fullscreen apps
<ali1234> hmm... noticable lag when resizing windows
<ali1234> odd because it's the same gtk
<ali1234> must be a sucky windows manager i guess
<ali1234> "you don't have mpeg2 decoder, get lost"
<ali1234> doesn't seem to have any codecs at all in fact
<ali1234> i guess it's cos it's livecd
<ali1234> that's good... panel doesn't overlap fullscreen windows
<ali1234> of course, the UI gets completely messed up
<ali1234> never thought i would miss totem
<kazade> Haha just got this error while trying to package an app of mine: debuild: fatal error at line 1337:  <<<
<oimon> wonder what my chances of also getting this patch of dead pixels fixed: http://i.imgur.com/UtzIK.jpg
<Tommeh> Gahhh
<Tommeh> And now Unity freezes on me.
<Tommeh> Bleh.
<oimon> seem to have had some success with dell :D although the guy in the indian call centre would not replace the broken part, the girl in the irish call centre did :D and will replace my LCD screen too because of dead pixels
<oimon> thats consistency for you
<dwatkins> I know the feeling, sadly, oimon
<dwatkins> I had to send my ASUS Eee back to ASUS for the screen to be replaced. The reseller refused to do anything because it wasn't bad enough.
<Laney> i swear linaro speaks a different language to me
<ChrisKenyon> x event
<bigcalm> On a client's server...
<bigcalm> ]$sudo su -
<bigcalm> Segmentation fault
<bigcalm> Something fall down go boom
<Laney> sudo -i
<Laney> instead of that ;-)
<bigcalm> Segmentation fault
<bigcalm> Even 'su' gives a segfault
<Laney> :S
<ali1234> HazRPG: what file did you edit for flash fullscreen hack in chrome?
<andylockran> guys
<andylockran> if I was maxing out network bandwidth between a mysql server and apache server (separate machines) - would you expect mysql not to open any more connections and handle the max bandwidth itself, or would there be errors?
<bigcalm> Oh flip. Not only the segfault on sudo, but the client's email sending queue has backed up to about 2,200 emails
<diplo> Time outs I'd think andylockran
<diplo> apache box trying to connect to mysql server
<BigRedS> the mysql client would produce errors
<BigRedS> and whatever's using that will deal with them as it wishes, normally just complaining of an inability to connect
<andylockran> yep - thanks
<davmor2> moo
<gord> no cows.
<gord> davmor2, i haven't seen you here yet, have i totally blanked you whilst walking past? i do that sometimes
<czajkowski> gord: ya cause yer rude
<czajkowski> booo
<gord> i prefer "deep in thought about 'portant stuff like badgers and ants forming a super creature"
<davmor2> gord:  I don't think I've spotted you either but then there are a couple of other people here,  I'll meet you at the greet and meet latter maybe
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Qt 5 Coming... - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4426
<gord> too many here this time, or maybe the venue is too small, but too crowded for sure
<AlanBell> o/ ChrisKenyon
<czajkowski> gord: i'm not there :(
<davmor2> yay! czajkowski is back on form
<czajkowski> davmor2: no i;m cranky
<czajkowski> just got 3 job rejections one after another
<DJones> czajkowski: Are you planning on staying this side of the water or looking to head back home
<czajkowski> styaing here if i can find work
<DJones> Right
<davmor2> czajkowski: AH nevermind someone will realise their mistake I'm sure
<gord> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers is always a good browse for those looking for employment :)
<czajkowski> gord: done
<gord> frankly, HR is almost always backed up with canononical, so its more of a long term solution...
<DJones> czajkowski: If we could justify it, I'd recommend you for IT support where I work (apart from the fact its all windows), but we're too small to have a full time IT support person/department, we just pay outside companies as & when needed
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> Windows IT support? Is there a worse tech job?
<kazade> DOS tech support?
<bigcalm> :P
<kazade> :)
<DJones> I was off on Friday and while I was away, I had new PC installed, the guy that did it spent half a day setting it up & then wasn't able to install the program I use the most (well work related program anyway)
<czajkowski> that reminds me
<Psychobudgie> bigcalm, Windows IT support is a great job, usually involves getting users to reboot
<oimon> i think being a pit crew engineer is the worst job
<czajkowski> need to ring the nice gp and chase up on mro
<czajkowski> mri
<oimon> your performance is judged on 5 seconds work and everybody will hate you if you delay it by 1 sec
<DJones> It wasn't his fault, my predecessor or the one before that had hidden/lost the installation cd's, all I had were two updated versions which it turns out aren't compatibe with the program I use 2nd most often
<Psychobudgie> I would think cleaning raw sewage or being a fluffer would suck pretty bad
<Psychobudgie> I'd hazard a guess that they are way worse than anything you can come up with in IT
<DJones> Psychobudgie: Either way, whether its cleaning raw sewage or supporting Windows, you need some form of protective clothing :D
<DJones> Hmmh, Installing update 18 of 88 (Windows Live essentials) Restart now/later? Ermmmm. I'll wait until all 88 have been installed thank you very much
<czajkowski> gord: see pm
<oimon> facebook can't rotate my uploaded videos :(
<bigcalm> Turn your monitor on its side
<popey> no
<popey> turn everyone elses
<bigcalm> Ah
<oimon> "something's gone wrong with rotating the video, we're fixing it as soon as we can"...that was 6 months ago
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's still rendering.
<hamitron> can't you just rotate before uploading?
<oimon> it's a .3gp video...so no
<oimon> also if i rotate on youtube i get massive vertical black bars on either side
<dwatkins> Isn't that to be expected when rotating video?
<hamitron> it owuld annoy me more if it stretched it
<hamitron> would*
<oimon> it should crop it surely?
<hamitron> but then you have missing bits
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> not sure if i'm the only one with the facebook rotation problem
<hamitron> well, I don't use facebook, so can safely say I don't have the problem ;)
<oimon> i don't know whose idea it was to have .3gp files in the first place
<ali1234> 3gp is actually just mpeg
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: mpeg4
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: with a special audio-codec sometimes (AMR)
<oimon> i think it's the amr that causes the problems in lucid
<arsen> anyone know any wiki software that supports drag&drop out of the box?
<BigRedS> dragging and dropping what?
<BigRedS> Not that I'm likely to know, I'm just intrigued
<arsen> ie drag files/images into a wiki page
<arsen> for upload/attach
<BigRedS> oh wow, surely that's a bit dependent upon browser support?
<MartijnVdS> it is
<arsen> well yes it would be, but it also relies on the sofwares ability to handle it
<oimon> arsen:  like this? https://studio.plugins.atlassian.com/wiki/display/DND/Drag+and+Drop+Attachments+for+Confluence+and+JIRA+(Firefox)
<oimon> it's a firefox addin
<arsen> that relies on everyone running firefox though
<arsen> html5 supports this stuff
<oimon> http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+3.5+Release+Notes#Confluence3.5ReleaseNotes-DragandDropforHTML5Browsers
<Laney> NOT CANONICAL!
<ali1234> why not?
<oimon> BBC4 are showing the Tom Baker Dr Who classic Hand of Fear 4 part series - starting tonight
<popey> :D
 * Laney strokes popey 
<Laney> someone accused me of being a Launchpad developer earlier
<DJones> Anybody in Swindon interested in a coding challenge http://www.museumofcomputing.org.uk/events/5-current-events/90-bedroom-programming-challenge
<popey> haha you deserve to be the on the team then Laney !
<HazRPG> ali1234: /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome
<ali1234> HazRPG: cheers
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/605248/
<HazRPG> ali1234: that's what I changed in mine
<ali1234> can you pastebin the whole thing please?
<HazRPG> just before: exec -a "$0" "$HERE/chrome" "$@"
<HazRPG> sure
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/M7SFvKbv (paste.ubuntu.com was being too slow)
<ali1234> ugh why does pastebin.com have flash objects on it?
<ali1234> never noticed before i started using flashblock
<HazRPG> it does?
<HazRPG> *shrug* I'm using flash block too
<ali1234> oh it must be how they make "copy to clipboard" work
<HazRPG> ah heh, yeah it is
<HazRPG> just noticed it at the top xD
<hamitron> isn't it just adverts?
<HazRPG> hamitron: pastebin doesn't have adverts
<hamitron> it doesn't?
<hamitron> 1 top, one right, one bottom
<ali1234> i;ve often wondered...
<ali1234> why do some channels get shirty if you use the wrong pastebin?
<hamitron> unless they want you to use theirs, with advertising on........ I dunno
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> !info pastebinit
<ali1234> i can understand it for ##C, their pastebin can actually compile and run the code, it's very clever
<lubotu3> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1-2 (maverick), package size 22 kB, installed size 404 kB
<oimon> shouldn't the bot be talking about natty packages now by default?
<oimon> !info pastebinit natty
<ali1234> http://ideone.com/
<lubotu3> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-2 (natty), package size 30 kB, installed size 480 kB
<ali1234> oimon: yes, it should
<hamitron> is there a !info specially for lts?
<hamitron> !infolts nano
<hamitron> !ltsinfo nano
<ali1234> !info pastebinit lts
<lubotu3> 'lts' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<hamitron> ty ali
<ali1234> well i guess that answered the question anyway
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> would be nice if lts was synonym for whatever is current lts
<hamitron> yep
<ali1234> maybe whoever is in charge of the bot could implement that when they fix it for natty :)
<reaper4334> Hi
<hamitron> I suppose another thing is, if you have loads of synonym, it takes more keeping uptodate
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> looks like there are no synonyms in that list so maybe it's not even possible
<oimon> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<hamitron> !help help
<ali1234> try msging it
<oimon> go west: it is dark here; you were hit by a grue
<ali1234> or perhaps go ask in #ubuntu-bots
<HazRPG> oimon: xD
<DJones> What is it you're trying to get out of the bot
<hamitron> tbh, I think there are more worrying things than updating the bot
<HazRPG> I might have to try pastebinit
<hamitron> DJones: blood!
<oimon> DJones: the !info command returns info on maverick packages by default instead of natty
<DJones> Ah, not good
<hamitron> like there is plenty of out dated documentation :/
<hamitron> too much of it too :D
<ali1234> !info pastebinit $curLTS
<lubotu3> '$curLTS' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<ali1234> curses
<ali1234> the instructions lied to me
<DJones> !info pastebinit
<lubotu3> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-2 (natty), package size 30 kB, installed size 480 kB
<tsimpson> ali1234: !info and !find are not part of Encyclopedia
<oimon> hp are making me hate them with their stupid cashback schemes
<oimon> blip tv doesn't show how far into the video i am , and it permanently shows a pinwheel in the middle of the screen :(
<aerocam> lovin 11.04... new to ubuntu too. Very impressed.
<hamitron> bbl, thunder and lightening
<mang0> Guys, I'm dual booting windows and ubuntu on two differnat HDDs. Grub lists windows, but if I try to boot it, I'm stuck on the underscore.....(white underscore on black background). Why is this?
<aerocam> not sure...maybe grub is looking at a wrong drive
<mang0> aerocam: sudo update-grub right?
<mang0> to reconfigure it
<AlanBell> anyone good with blender?
<andylockran> xit
<andylockran> exit
<ali1234> AlanBell: i'm quite good with it
<jacobw> evenig
<jacobw> +n
<zleap> do i need a specific package for a brother printer to display ink levels
<zleap> ?
<MartijnVdS> maybe
<MartijnVdS> my HP shows them in the standard CUPS screen now
<Seeker`> hai
<jacobw> o/
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<Seeker`> Cameras are dangerous
<Seeker`> they empty your bank balance
<MartijnVdS> haha
<Seeker`> Just bought a Canon 55-250mm lens
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: ah, yes, that will drain it a bit ;)
 * MartijnVdS is looking for something at the "short" end
<MartijnVdS> (my 18-55 broke, I'm left with a 35, 50 and a 75-300)
<Seeker`> I've got the 18-55 kit lens, and a 50mm 1.8
<MartijnVdS> 35/2, 50/1.4 and the cheap 75-300
<MartijnVdS> the kit 18-55 broke
<Seeker`> could always buy a new version of the kit lens?
<Seeker`> What camera do you have?
<MartijnVdS> a 350d and a 50d
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but I want something "better"
 * Seeker` has  a 500d
<MartijnVdS> I'me thinking of getting the 20 f/2.8 or 28 f/2.8
<Seeker`> looking for a prime specifically, or is a zoom possible
<MartijnVdS> I love primes
<MartijnVdS> My 50/1.4 is almost welded to the 50d body :)
<Seeker`> Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM ?
<MartijnVdS> I've seen that one
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: it's a bit expensive, that one
<Seeker`> will do the job of several cheaper primes though
<MartijnVdS> the 10-22 looks nice
<Seeker`> thats not much cheaper than the 17-55 :P
<MartijnVdS> it's not :(
<Seeker`> Also getting a lowepro fastpack 250 so I can take a camera with me wherever I go
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/
<Seeker`> cool
<zleap> sorry MartijnVdS got distracted
<MartijnVdS> zleap: np
<Myrtti> â¥ Olympus Pen E-PL1 â¥
<zleap> i am trying to research what i need toget the ink level monitor working
<zleap> i can seeit, just does not show ink levels
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you need to get a "proper" PPD that explains to CUPS how to ask the printer for ink levels
<zleap> ok i have the proper ppd file from brother,
<MartijnVdS> zleap: then brother might not have added that feature
<MartijnVdS> ah.. my printer is HP, and the HP driver is special/smart
<MartijnVdS> no idea about generic postscript drivers
<MartijnVdS> or a Brother driver
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i know brother is pretty well supported
<zleap> drivers at least
<MartijnVdS> you might have to write some code (release it!) to query ink levels
<zleap> ok
<gord> my printer has a meter on the hardware that tells me the ink levels, i just use that, never thought of looking on my computer
<MartijnVdS> no idea :(
<zleap> my brother printer does too
<zleap> it would just be nice to have it working
<MartijnVdS> gord: I saw an ink level display on a coworker's mac
<gord> i wish you could tell the uds scheduler "there is nothing very interesting this our" so it could do a better job of keeping things interesting
<MartijnVdS> it's integrated into the "PRint" dialog.. so you can see you need to add more yellow ink when you're printing a document
<zleap> plus windows users would expect it to work
<gord> MartijnVdS, i believe you, i would assume its on windows too, i wouldn't think of looking for one on those platforms either, i look on the hardware
<MartijnVdS> zleap: try figuring out how CUPS gets ink levels
<MartijnVdS> zleap: plug into that
<MartijnVdS> gord: no on WIndows printer drivers are 2GB and are all different
<MartijnVdS> they all come with manufacturer-specific apps
<zleap> i havce no idea how to do that
<MartijnVdS> zleap: http://cyberelk.net/tim/2009/01/14/reporting-ink-levels/
<zleap> Libinklevel
<MartijnVdS> does that integrate with cups?
<zleap> not sure researching now
<zleap> http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/123734
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+bug/599269
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 599269 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "use libinklevel for reporting toner levels" [Undecided,New]
<zleap> i am not sure if brother is supported not listed
<MartijnVdS> probably not
<MartijnVdS> unless it's a networked printer which does SNMP
<MartijnVdS> (like my HP)
<zleap> it is networked
<zleap> however as its still not listed i will look for something that may work
<MartijnVdS> is snmp enabled?
<zleap> er
<zleap> not sure
<Myrtti> nice, ISP sent an SMS to warn that they're updating my ADSL settings and that my connection may drop
<zleap> cool
<NET||abuse> wow, main #ubuntu is noisefull
<NET||abuse> having trouble with my theme after update from 10.10
<NET||abuse> i'm stuck using what looks like clearlooks icons and color in the top bar, but i have selected ambience as the overall theme
<NET||abuse> i tried selecting the icon set in the customize optino for ambience, but they don't seem to have any affect.
<NET||abuse> also, tomboy won't use alt+F12 for it's menu shortcut key, although that's been a problem for me since 10.10
<NET||abuse> at least on this machine
<NET||abuse> D   E  D, the channel is dead, rest in peace :P
<mgdm> CLEAR!
<mgdm> *BZZZZZT*
<NET||abuse> heh, there's gotta be some geek style eulogy
<NET||abuse> with irc references,,
<NET||abuse>   NET||abuse has left #life and shall forever idle in #afterlife
<NET||abuse> so, back to Unity,, i kinda like the change.
<NET||abuse> i thought i'd hate leaving the comfy utility  of gnome..
<NET||abuse>  i'm not missing it the way i thought i would, a day in and the freshness of the change is still enjoyable.
<NET||abuse> haven't looked gnome shell direction at all yet
<NET||abuse> i liked the idea of coding up my widgets myself in javascript, but i also hate the idea of javascript being what native applications were based on.
<NET||abuse> need the speed of C darn it.
<mgdm> Well
<mgdm> JS is much easier to code in than C
<NET||abuse> specially on my netbook, thing really crawls along these days
<mgdm> and the runtimes are getting a *load* of attention from the browser vendors
<mgdm> so I'd say it was a reasonable choice
<NET||abuse> yeh, of course, js, python, qtml, all a nice choice for easy entry to development
<gord> javascript, python, C, C++, it all ends up being the same work anyway
<gord> soon as you hit "oh, i can't do this with what is already made for me..."
<NET||abuse> ..... gord,, yeh, what you drinking?
<Seeker`> NET||abuse: huh?
<NET||abuse> the point of failing utility is a different issue, if you code an app using js that doesn't have say, api access to your disk's SMART interface, then sure, you gotta drop to a lower level language.
<NET||abuse> but for 90% of the applications you want to build, the dynamic languages like python or multi paradigm-ness of js will ease the burden of the sheer weight of coding the basest component parts of your applicaiton
<NET||abuse> i don't envy C devs buliding their structs for every type they need to define.
<NET||abuse> no thank you :P
<Seeker`> Languages are tools. They each have their uses.
<mgdm> didn't you just turn 180 degrees and start arguing the opposite point to what you started with?
<NET||abuse> mgdm, nope, i just said i like the speed
<NET||abuse> didn't say i wanted to build them :P
<gord> you are over-simplfying the issue - it all ends up being the same work because the same work ends up being done, you may prefer one language but i know for example, i can code way faster in C than i can in JavaScript because thats what i know
<NET||abuse> i like the idea of the ease of building my own widgets in JS,
<mgdm> There are a bunch of things that are going to be not-all-that-much-faster when you drive them from C than when you drive them from JS/Python/Ruby/LOLCODE
<mgdm> anything involving the disk, network, etc
<NET||abuse> gord, hmm, well, if the precedent were set, then why don't more people don't build webapps etc in C :P
<gord> NET||abuse, because browsers provide one language option
<gord> javascript
<gord> its the standard
<NET||abuse> gord, we were beyond the js onhly argument, discussing the polyglot options
<NET||abuse> when coding in any language, operations in memory will always be faster in C
<gord> you suggested webapps, webapps can only be coded in javascript
<NET||abuse> gord, .... that's a very ambiguous definition of web apps.
<mgdm> I'd consider what I do at work to be webaps, and they're in PHP...
<gord> that would be a backend
<NET||abuse> yup, PHP and pythong for me :)
<NET||abuse> gord, yes, but the webapp needs a backend,
<popey> pythong th th th thong!
<NET||abuse> whoop whoop
<NET||abuse> shake that python
<NET||abuse> shake that pythong
<mgdm> back end, yes, but the front end has no JS for quite a lot of it, but it's still a web app :) </pedant>
<mgdm> I'll shut up now
<gord> people code backends in C, not everyone, but some people, if it suits them - more power to them
<gord> it all ends up being the same work.
<NET||abuse> that statement irks me
<Seeker`> It all ends up as assembly
<NET||abuse> oh god, the lack of nuance, somebody shoot me
 * Seeker` shoots NET||abuse 
 * NET||abuse escapes happily in death
<Seeker`> interpreters don't have to be slow
<NET||abuse> </obstinance>
<Seeker`> some languages have more overhead than others
<Seeker`> but they can all be compiled down to assembly if you wish
<gord> you can make the case that mono is actually faster than compiled code
<NET||abuse> anyway, my theme is broke, anyone know how to get the icons/top bar back to ambiance defaults?
<NET||abuse> mine seems stuck by some pre-existing config from gnome of something
<NET||abuse> weird that unity is affected this way.
<gord> we just grab the current theme to theme the panel, chances are gnome settings daemon dyed
<gord> died
<WinterWeaver> If I create a cronjob with @hourly, when does that hour cycle start? The moment I save the crontab, or exactly on the hour?
<mgdm> on the hour
<WinterWeaver> thx mgdm
<NET||abuse> gord, not sure if that's the case, i created a test user, loged in as that user, all the theme's work correctly, then logged back in as myself, and the same issues remain on my pre-11.04 user account (updating since 9.10 i think)
<NET||abuse> and still i can't use alt-F12 for tomboy,, gosh darn it!! :P
<popey> oooo
<popey> never noticed that
<popey> is there a bug filed?
<NET||abuse> dunno, haven't searched for it yet.
<NET||abuse> will do now though
<NET||abuse> should that be under unity or tomboy though i wonder.
<NET||abuse> that said, now unreproduceable due to upgrading, but i was having the same issue during my 10.10 gnome sessions
<NET||abuse> my netbook is too slow :(
<NET||abuse> hmm, there's a question, are the shortcut keys gnome only, so the unity has it's own settings manager
<gord> which bit is the bit with the question?
<popey> gord has been on the beer, he's edgy tonight.
<popey> Sorry, I mean feisty
<mgdm> gutsy, even
<gord> no no, i mean, i didn't understand the question
<gord> rephrase and i can potentially help :)
<Azelphur> hmm, in GIMP when I rotate a image, it messes up the colors. How do I stop it from doing that? :S
<Azelphur> like if I rotate a white line, it becomes grey and faded :S
<mgdm> it's antialiasing it
<mgdm> I expect
<Azelphur> fun, I wonder how I'd stop it from doing that
<Azelphur> mgdm, got it, there's an interolation dropdown xD
<Azelphur> popey, if your interested, I'm trying to do something like this http://blog.brixandersen.dk/wp-content/uploads/conky.png for the M1730 :D
<mgdm> Azelphur: ah, cool
<mgdm> and, shiny
<mgdm> do one for a Thinkpad R500? :P
<Azelphur> haha, I didn't draw the original, and I'm actually a terrible artist this is the first thing I've actually drawn...well ever xD
<Azelphur> but it's coming out quite nicely
<Azelphur> mgdm, I just took a photo of my laptop and started going over the edges in gimp with the line tool, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-09-224028_1920x1200_scrot.png
<Azelphur> mgdm, then you just toggle visibility of the layer with the photo in it, and you get http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-09-224020_1920x1200_scrot.png
<mgdm> Ah yes
<Azelphur> it's coming out way better than I thought I'd achieve, haha
<mgdm> I've done similar things in Inkscape
<gord> inkscape is prolly better suited for line drawing
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> but yea just gotta go painstakingly over each and every key xD
<Azelphur> and then it should look good \o/
<gord> inkscape does have a trace thing that can create a line drawing of images, but its way more sketchy than you might like i think
<mgdm> Azelphur: for amusement value, try duplicating that photo layer and run the Canny edge detector on it
<Azelphur> that's interesting, I'll try that and see what it comes up with, maybe I could touch it up :p
 * mgdm wonders if tha'ts what GIMP calls it, it's certainly the name of the algorithm
<Azelphur> haha, no idea how to do that
<Azelphur> yw to a copy of the photo if you want it xD
<mgdm> Azelphur: aye, go on :)
<Azelphur> mgdm, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110509_005536.jpg
<mgdm> Hmm, GIMP doesn't call it that
 * mgdm does some C and some OpenCV
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> gord, do you know where the inkscape trace thing is?
<mgdm> darn
<mgdm> can't ind the code I need
<mgdm> never mind :)
<Azelphur> lol
<mgdm> Inkscape can probably do something better itself
<Azelphur> I assume it's a filter, there's so many xD
<Azelphur> woa
<Azelphur> inkscape does do a surprisingly good job of this
<mgdm> I was trying to find the thing that did http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/198522_10150151425792297_514797296_6723701_2092911_n.jpg
<mgdm> Azelphur: aye, it's usually a good start, needs a little tidying though
<Azelphur> yea it would need a lot of tidying
<Azelphur> I might try and steal it's representation of the keyboard, that'd save me a lot of time :P
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> g'night
<Azelphur> night xD
<Azelphur> gord, inkscape doesn't seem to support saving as a format that would be loadable as a wallpaper, :(
<gord> Azelphur, svg is loadable as a wallpaper. but if you export you can save as png
<gord> svg is just nicer because its resolution independent
<Azelphur> oh, I see :)
<AlanBell> SVG is sort of loadable as wallpaper
<AlanBell> you can request an SVG as wallpaper and it converts it to a PNG of some resolution that doesn't neccessarily match your screen and displays that
<AlanBell> it doesn't actually render SVG on the background
<gord> well it does :) svg is an xml file, rendering it is the process of turning it in to pixels. but it used to match screen resolution, i guess it doesn't now?
<gord> been a while since i have done that, but it certainly used to
<AlanBell> svg does funky stuff like javascript and animations :)
<AlanBell> I haven't tried it for a while I think it got the resolution based on the declared size of the SVG in inches or something
<gord> yeah you can, interesting that no one has really ever done that
<AlanBell> I just realised once that you could do an svg wallpaper, but it turned out to be a less exciting discovery than I had hoped
<gord> ted gould has a cool inkscape -> web page presentation tool, so instead of using boring OO.o for presentations he gets these nifty svg+js animated ones
<AlanBell> I think DoctorMo's dynamic wallpapers were based on that
<AlanBell> yeah, I have seen that
<AlanBell> but the dynamic wallpapers only update on restart or daily or something
<AlanBell> heh, fun discovery with unity :)
<AlanBell> I have a laptop (screen1) with unity sidebar
<AlanBell> I have a monitor (screen2) to the left
<AlanBell> to pop out the sidebar on the left of screen 1 I have to hold the mouse at the left edge of screen2 then race 2048 pixels over to the right before it fades again
<AlanBell> actually it doesn't fade while I am to the left of it
<gord> heh yeah
<gord> we don't really support having the monitor on the left of the springboard
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-10
<Azelphur> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7442949 anyone good at routing got any suggestions on this? :P
<shauno> have you looked in iptables to see if there's anything matching?
<shauno> see if someone got on the wrong side of fail2ban or similar
<Azelphur> shauno, nope, my iptables entries are null
<Azelphur> I checked :)
<Azelphur> iptables --list shows everything is allow
<shauno> have you tried doing traceroute from server->baduser ?
<Azelphur> shauno, yes, that's in the thread
<shauno> it's only one hop?
<Azelphur> shauno, yep.
<Azelphur> breakage \o/
<shauno> <3 get_iplayer
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to ghost image of Ubuntu Desktop ?
<MartijnVdS> clonezilla can do it
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<daubers> Morning
<popey> 23:13:46 < gord> we don't really support having the monitor on the left of the springboard
<popey> has launcher been renamed to springboard?
<dwatkins> That'll vex the iOS people.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know a bit about jQuery? What does the if statement below mean? (I'm a bit confused by the comma. What is the callback actually working on?)
<TheOpenSourcerer>    $('#browseCatalogue ul.browseSubMenu > li > a').click(function()
<TheOpenSourcerer>      {
<TheOpenSourcerer>         if(!$('.sub',$(this).parent()).hasClass('active'))
<DJones> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> howdyho
<dutchie> :( skype
<DJones> dutchie: Mass transfer to Ekiga, or an acceptance that it works and it doesn't really matter who owns it.  Either way, its still a closed source system and may not make much difference
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Google Talk also works
<MartijnVdS> DJones: with/without video
<MartijnVdS> with/without audio
<MartijnVdS> (in empathy)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Must admit, I've never tried googletalk
<dutchie> DJones: yeah, but the problem is non-geek friends use it heavily
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: They're not your friends anymore now.
<dutchie> i'm sure my girlfriend would love that
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: you'll have more time for her!
<dutchie> not much use when she is in .ch
<MartijnVdS> google talk, or move there ;)
<dutchie> i think google talk
<DJones> dutchie: Heh, to be honest, I uses what works and suits me, while personal choice will be an open source option, if closed source (because of popularity) is needed, I'll use it if necessary.  I guess as long as MS don't stop supporting non-windows versions its not likely to be a problem (as with msn etc)
 * dutchie notes that msn is currently failing to log in via empathy
<DJones> Pidgin FTW
<dutchie> DJones: i have to say i agree with pragmatism
<dutchie> although skype barely works now and is about 5 versions behind the mac/windows client
<DJones> I found skype worked really well on linux at the start of the year when my parents were in Australia, certainly couldn't fault its basic usage, installed easily, connected with no problems, although agreed that it is some way behind the windows version
<ali1234> empathy can't call google talk web users
<ali1234> due to codec issues
<gord> popey, that was the last i heard... maybe its the launcher again, i honestly can't keep up
<popey> hah
<popey> springboard is the apple one
<MartijnVdS> Is there a way to disable the "Apps you can download" bit in the "Magnifying glass with a + in it" "menu"?
<gord> i looked in to it, i honestly have no idea
<gord> i'm gonna call it the appydoodah
<MartijnVdS> (also, does it have a better name than "Magnifying glass with a + in it-menu"
<ali1234> it's called unity-places-applications
<ali1234> sorry unity-place-applications
<ali1234> !info unity-place-applications
<gord> MartijnVdS, only by modifying the source of the apps place
<lubotu3> unity-place-applications (source: unity-place-applications): Application place for unity. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.46-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 43 kB, installed size 212 kB
<gord> lens
<gord> is it that awful?
<MartijnVdS> gord: Oh. That's annoying. The user in question doesn't have admin rights, so can't install those apps (yet it still shows them)
<ali1234> i want to get into unity hacking actually, so i may make a patch for that
<ali1234> seems like as good place to start as any
<gord> MartijnVdS, interesting
<gord> \o/ unity hacking
<ali1234> i mean hacking in the true sense of the word
<ali1234> ie making it do what i want, don't care what the "designers" say
<ali1234> this sure does have a lot of build deps
<gord> MartijnVdS, if apt doesn't know about the applications and we have no results to return, then we won't show the more apps you can download bit though, maybe that would help?
<MartijnVdS> gord: showing options to run apt if the user can't run apt feels bad though :)
<MartijnVdS> or at least sub-optimal
<gord> MartijnVdS, i would agree, up to a point "hey mum, i saw this game on the computer, can i get it?" - not sure what the best solution is there
<MartijnVdS> I'll file a bug, so People In Charge can decide
<gord> :)
<gord> worst comes to worst, we throw an option in there per user
<MartijnVdS> wait.. I need to double-check if it's not unity-2d on that machine
<gord> it wouldn't matter
<MartijnVdS> oh? same code?
<gord> the backend, place-applications and place-files are shared between them
<gord> its in the backend
<MartijnVdS> waiting for launchpad...
<ali1234> are these c files autogenerated from the vala?
<gord> yes
<gord> vala compiles down to c
<ali1234> so i need to edit the vala files?
<ali1234> and why are the c files shipped in the source package if they are intermediate?
<oimon> my laptop is broken so was forced to use unity 2d on my netbook yesterday for actually doing things..didn't work out too well
<oimon> if you don't want to alt-tab, then switching windows is a nightmare
<ali1234> yes, true
<gord> ali1234, if the c files already exist, they are prolly not generated from vala
<gord> look in the C code, if it looks sane then its not generated by vala, if it looks insane, its generated by vala
<ali1234> gord: main.c, main.vala - has same const strings in the same order...
<ali1234> the c looks pretty insane even by glib standards
<ali1234> no comments either
<ali1234> i've seen worse written by humans though
<gord> ali1234, that will be generated then, not sure why its shipped
<ali1234> all the variables are like _tmp1_ - that's dead giveaway
<gord> what is this in?
<ali1234> in unity-place-applications
<gord> 30kb/s from launchpad wooo
<MartijnVdS> gord: ooh, a record
<MartijnVdS> gord: Is there a picture somewhere with arrows pointing at all the bits of Unity with their names?
<AlanBell> there is
<gord> ali1234, i just branched lp:unity-place-applications and we don't ship any c files. are you talking about the tarball? they will have c files because it just makes life easier for distribution
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you have a link? :)
<AlanBell> on the lense page MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
<AlanBell> doesn't cover all of it
<ali1234> gord: i did apt-get source unity-place-applications on natty
<AlanBell> and it says launcher rather than springboard
<davmor2> gord:  So where was you last night dude?
<oimon> anyone listen to jono bacon's interview on the linux action show the other day?
<gord> davmor2, i wanted to go out, hotel is suffocating, but then those plans fell through and i napped through the evening by accident :(
<oimon> i'm glad he is no longer saying that natty rocks
<gord> davmor2, i'm convinced you are not here anyway
<gord> its all a big trick
<ali1234> ah, i just realised "applications available for download" makes sense in the context of doing a search
<ali1234> oimon: friend messaged me last night: "ok, so now ubuntu is totally rubbish, what is good?"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements/19166#19166
<ali1234> except he didn't say rubbish
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that explains it better :)
<oimon> ali1234: gnome classic session is the answer :D
<oimon> except people don't realise it
<bigcalm> Ahoy peeps!
<ali1234> well XFCE certainly isn't the answer
<gord> ahoy-hoy
<oimon> i see no reason to jump until my options have disappeared
<oimon> while gnome classic exists then why jump?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> no reason
<bigcalm> Chris Cross will make you jump
<davmor2> gord: Damn you seeing through my cunning plan, oh wait no I am here :P I think you're not :D
<oimon> jump jump
<ali1234> i don't believe they (gnome) can get away with dropping it entirely
<ali1234> or at all for that matter
<ali1234> seems like the only thing that even fewer people like than unity is gnome shell
 * bigcalm goes looking for some nice 80s hip-hop
<ali1234> btw they were called kris kross
<oimon> my company has over 500 linux desktops, possibly nearer to 1000, and we may soon be making a decision on a single distro to use
<ali1234> just fyi
<popey> I hate you all.
<MartijnVdS> popey: Why?
<popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
<popey> now playing
<MartijnVdS> popey: At least it's not Rick Astley
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is HIGH
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is VERY HIGH
<ali1234> i got very high too
<oimon> yay dell fixed my laptop on the last day of warranty :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that's what warranty is for :P
<ali1234> that doesn't make much sense
<oimon> MartijnVdS: the indian call centre guy didn't think so
<oimon> rather fortunate that it should break 2 days before the 3yr was up
<oimon> but in no uncertain terms he said i had to pay Â£85 since it wasn't covered by warranty
<dutchie> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is VERY LOW
<oimon> wow popey is stuck in the indie scene of the 90s
<oimon> where's sleeper and blur?
<popey> :)
<oimon> popey: where did u go to uni?
<bigcalm> dutchie: do you only listen to classical?
<dutchie> not exactly
<bigcalm> Country & Western?
<popey> oimon: I never went to Uni
<dutchie> http://www.last.fm/user/jshholland
<bigcalm> Ah, you're young
<oimon> popey: i was at manchester around that era...was good times :D
<bigcalm> I forget now and then :)
<oimon> "bran van 3000Â - Drinkin in LA" -yesss i heard a snippet of that song the other day and couldn't think what it was
<dutchie> bigcalm: :P
<oimon> is lastfm free?
<bigcalm> Yes
<dutchie> there is a free tier and a subscriber tier
<bigcalm> Grandmaster Flash - The Message
 * bigcalm grooves
<popey> Sound of Eden - Shades of Rhythm
<bigcalm> Shaun of the Dead has this and other great 80s hits
 * popey winds it up
<bigcalm> New glasses will be ready for collection at lunch time. I think I'm far too excited about getting new glasses :)
 * ali1234 makes a new lastfm account but with real name this time
<popey> heh
<ali1234> the trouble with making accounts under a false name
<ali1234> is you can't tell anyone it's you
<ali1234> otherwise they know the false name you use everywhere
<oimon> lol
<oimon> i was telling my friend mungojerry that the other day
<popey> i need some help testing my webcam later
<popey> ahem
<popey> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/uupc
<NET||abuse> this is driving me nuts, i thought i had my theme sorted out, lastnight the top panel was dark with the nice unity icon set, but now it's reverted to what i think is oxygen,
<NET||abuse> i updated this machine from 10.10, and i had installed kde4 as a test, but i think it's conflicted with unity's setup
<NET||abuse> now i'm stuck with the lighter theme in my top bar,
<NET||abuse> really want the nice mono colours forthe unity theme
<AlanBell> wow, just turned on two finger scrolling on the touchpad!
<NET||abuse> so something is reverting it after i login.
<NET||abuse> AlanBell, yeh, that's sweet
<NET||abuse> loved that when i discovered it on my Eee
<AlanBell> didn't support it in Maverick
<NET||abuse> I have started trying to two finger scroll on any laptop :P
<AlanBell> not on my laptop
<NET||abuse> oh? did on 10.10 for me
<NET||abuse> what laptop
<AlanBell> samsung R530
<NET||abuse> maybe different touchpad driver.
<AlanBell> yeah, the OS supported it but the driver didn't
<Apacheuk> popey: does this mean we are going to get some live show recordings via video now you have a superduper net connection?
<AlanBell> horizontal scrolling too
<NET||abuse> yup :)
<popey> Apacheuk: ya
<popey> and no :)
<AlanBell> that is awesome on the summit schedule
<ali1234> seems like everyone stopped using lastfm in dec 2009?
<ali1234> including me
<Apacheuk> popey: :) that was my show prediction from the prediction show :)
<ali1234> is that when they shut off streaming to uk
<gord> too many people in wayland talk
<ali1234> ?
<gord> no, to europe
<dutchie> ali1234: no, don't think so
<dutchie> that was ~3 mo ago iirc
<ali1234> well, everyone outside USA basically
<gord> i used it for a long time, ubuntu one replaced it
<dutchie> since they decided to give me a 3 month free subscription for some reason and that has now run out
<ali1234> spotify replaced it for me
<ali1234> but now they've got a limit too
<bigcalm> Last FM is good for random tracks on a theme. Spotify is good for albums
<NET||abuse> can't get spotify :( groove shark is my only option, but not real desktop app for it (:
<gord> yeah my use case is different, i want to stream my own music not discover music i guess
<ali1234> i don't want to deal with a music library ever again now
<ali1234> certainly not one that i had to pay for
<ali1234> it's bad enough that it can go up in smoke due to random computer failure
<gord> i just throw up my music into u1
 * dutchie likes having physical cds
<ali1234> i don't like having physical CDs actually
<dutchie> i think i am a dying breed
<ali1234> they take up too much space
<ali1234> i prefer it to buying mp3s online though
<dutchie> i have an irrational distrust of spotify
<gord> got rid of all mine after i finished ripping my music and moved house
<oimon> what about listening to music in the car?
<ali1234> if i could buy the whole artist backcatalogue on a read only microsd card, that would be ideal
<gord> i mean, i still have the music and i have that music backed up, so don't need the cds
<DJones> Just noticed this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/netflix-chrome-plugin-will-bring-on-demand-video-to-linux ok, netflix isn't available in the uk yet, but could be interesting in future
<oimon> not entirely legal though gord
<gord> eh? what is not legal about it oimon?
<ali1234> ask popey
<gord> if cd's had copy protection it would be, because you are breaking the DMCA but thats not the case
<oimon> gord: do you mean that you ripped your cds and then sold them?
<ali1234> maybe that thing he's always on about only applies to dvds
<popey> o_O
<gord> oimon, oh god no
<oimon> oh :D
<gord> i ripped my cds and then put my cds in the bin
 * AlanBell is not living in a country where the DMCA has any validity
<popey> Its nothing to do with the DMCA
<popey> It's not legal to rip CDs/DVDs in the UK.
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> you can't put your CDs on your MP3 player
<NET||abuse> in the UKI?
<AlanBell> indeed
<NET||abuse> I didn't realise, in Ireland here so
<bigcalm> That's a shame
<gord> president?
<AlanBell> bet you can't in Ireland either
<NET||abuse> similar rules will apply here, we mostly just copy you guys : )
<oimon> i remember when i was young, the daily mail had a story about recording of tv programmes becoming illegal. i worried about it for about a year
<ali1234> i remember that too
<popey> heh
<ali1234> i think there's a lay like you can't keep recorded tv shows for longer than 3 weeks or something
<ali1234> a law that is
<gord> if its illegal to copy data from a cd to somewhere else then just playing them is illegal
<ali1234> or that was the law they brought in in the 80s
<ali1234> no idea if it still exists
<popey> gord: nope
<bigcalm> If so, then my V+ box is being very naughty
<popey> nope
<oimon> just finished watching danish tv series the killing - best programme i ever saw
<popey> you have a license via Virgin for what it does
<ali1234> bigcalm: this was back in vhs days
<NET||abuse> gord, playing is fine if you don't take advantage of the ananlogue loops, there's seperation of the potential to break a law and actually doing it that protects you
<bigcalm> I see
<AlanBell> gord: just because something is technically equivalent does not mean itis legally equivalent
<bigcalm> And off the shelf DVRs?
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping
<popey> "In the United Kingdom, making a private copy of copyrighted media without the copyright owner's consent is illegal: this includes ripping music from a CD to a computer or digital music player"
<ali1234> i wonder about freesat type stuff actually
<popey> citations are there before anyone larts me for quoting wikipedia
<ali1234> manufacturers have to meet a loooong list of requirements to put freesat on it
<oimon> i love that my dvr has a usb port for copying/archiving to pc
<ali1234> have bbc done that encryption thing with their eit data yet?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the freesat logo, yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but Freesat works fine on my receiver, which isn't "official" freesat
<oimon> the logos count for nothing
<ali1234> yes, yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: (being in NL and all)
<ali1234> the logo
<ali1234> logos count for a lot
<oimon> as proven by the digital tick case of the digifusion fvrt200 box
<MartijnVdS> Sure, "red button" stuff doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> but </care>
<ali1234> you won't see a sat receiver in curries if it doesn't have freesat logo or sky logo on it
<gord> ah, its one of those laws that doesn't actually matter
<bigcalm> Heh
<oimon> certain manufactureres used the tick and it didn't conform
<oimon> all the customers lost out
<gord> maybe i'll open a ripping facility in france, you send your cd's via royal mail, i rip them then send back a digital copy
<ali1234> gord: a friend of mine wanted to set up that exact service
<ali1234> concluded that CDs are too damn valuable to send by post
<ali1234> perhaps valuable is the wrong word... "too expensive to replace" would be more like it
<gord> lovefilm seems to do fine
<ali1234> because it's not like you can resell them for anything like the cost to buy them
<ali1234> lovefilm isn't dealing with retail purchased dvds
<ali1234> if it cost then Â£16.99 every time one got lost or damaged in the post they would be screwed
<ali1234> or Â£32.99 for the blu-ray
<ali1234> also they're not shipping 100 in a big box
<gord> well they have rental copies, i'm not sure how that affects the price
<ali1234> someone's entire CD collection could represent an investment of several thousand pounds
<oimon> bluray - what a con
<gord> a con?
<gord> i like bluray
<ali1234> i like bluray too, when it's done right
<ali1234> i don't like upscaled-from-dvd bluray releases
<gord> i like HD, 25mbit content is great too
<oimon> the prices of films on bluray are a ripoff
<ali1234> yeah too expensive too
<oimon> it's like when CD's came out, they were cheaper to produce than cassetes but were still more expensive
<gord> eh, i get mine for around Â£20, i'm willing to pay that
<ali1234> would have to be a damn good film for me to pay Â£20
<oimon> even if the dvd is a tenner?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> because dvd quality looks poor now everyone has HD tvs
<gord> dvd has horrible compression and at a terrible resolution, also you basically flip a coin on weather you are gonna get progressive or interlaced content. no thanks
<kazade> ali1234, I really can't see the difference sat back on my sofa
<oimon> i don't have surround sound or HD TV
<ali1234> and sorry, but upscaling makes it look worse than just watching it on a SD CRT
<gord> with dvd i just end up looking at the artifacts
<ali1234> if you can't see the difference between HD and upscaled SD on a HDTV you must have extremely poor eyesight
<ali1234> right
<kazade> ali1234, it's probably that... I don't care
<oimon> if you don't have HD TV then everything looks fine
<gord> well, it could be that the TV is too small or too far away
<ali1234> upscaling makes the artifacts must worse
<oimon> did you ever look at SD TV and DVD and think , this sucks?
<kazade> I've got a 32" HD TV with Sky HD... I regularly don't realize I'm not watching the HD versions of channels
<oimon> it's only when you get HD telly that you see artifcats
<kazade> obviously there *is* a difference, but I ain't paying an extra tener for it
<ali1234> oimon: i have looked at SD content on a SD CRT next to a HD LCD, and the CRT looks fine, while the HDTV looks poor due to artifacts
<gord> sky hd wasn't good last time i saw it, low bitrate :(
<oimon> ali1234: right
<MartijnVdS> BBC HD, BBC One HD, ITV HD and C4 HD look fine though
<MartijnVdS> especially the BBC channels
<oimon> i don't get it
<ali1234> if you have a HDTV you need HD content otherwise it looks worse than SD on a SD screen
<oimon> and the SD tellys are going to the skip even though they are great still
<ali1234> they are not great
<kazade> ali1234, it depends on the TV I think, some upscale REALLY badly
<oimon> the only thing is i wish i could plug the laptop into the telly
<kazade> I had to replace one that broke and the difference in upscaling was unreal
<ali1234> it's just that you need content that matches the screen
<kazade> ali1234, ideally yes, but I don't notice too much difference unless I'm looking at it (or am sat close to it)
<kazade> *looking for it
<ali1234> looking at it lol
<gord> i saw a crt for the first time in years the other day, couldn't look at it, refresh rate hurt my eyes :(
<kazade> I don't enjoy a film in SD any less than an HD one
<ali1234> sorry but i do enjoy a film more in HD
<ali1234> it's not that i don't enjoy SD
<oimon> i've never seen one in HD, or 3D for that matter
<MartijnVdS> \o/ HD snobbery
<ali1234> i don't have to lookfor the artifacts either
<oimon> i'm used to watching the stuff from iplayer
<ali1234> they jump right out like a spelling mistake in a book
<MartijnVdS> I have blu-rays that are full of black snow (that isn't film grain)
<gord> animated stuff is well worth the HD
<oimon> btw on a rather differnt topic, i'm choosing desktop PCs to last for the next 4 years..which processors do you recommend?
<popey> http://supportdetails.com/ heh cute
<oimon> i3? i5?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Sandy Bridge i7-2600K
<popey> i wouldnt buy a desktop
<popey> :)
<ali1234> popey: nice one, bookmarking that
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for Ivy Bridge :)
<oimon> desktops are more future proof and long lasting than other tech
<popey> I'd buy an imac :)
<kazade> oimon, +1
<oimon> troll
<popey> neh
<ali1234> buy a mac pro
<DJones> oimon: I've just bought an i3 laptop for home & got an i5 desktop at work, both with the same memory & I don't notice any speed difference except with a flash game (The i3 is considerably faster with that)
<ali1234> not a imac
<ali1234> geez
<kazade> I've never bought a desktop PC..
<popey> he said desktop
<popey> :)
<kazade> I just build them
<oimon> DJones: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
<ali1234> mac pro *is* a desktop
<popey> oh, sorry
<popey> misread
<ali1234> unless you only count pcs where the whole case goes on the desk
<oimon> at the moment they have core 2 duo e8400
<popey> hah, the pedant definition of 'desktop'
<oimon> which are plenty fast enough
<oimon> OK: workstations
<ali1234> mac pro is the only mac i'd ever buy, and i'd never buy it cos an equivalent pc is half the price
<ali1234> so i guess my recommendation is spec a pc equivalent to a mac pro :)
<ali1234> i'm sure someone out there has already done exactly that to troll mac users
<dwatkins> ali1234: have you compared like with like?
<oimon> wondering what we will be short of in 4yrs...RAM or CPU
<ali1234> dwatkins: no, but have you seen the price of mac pro?
<gord> power it looks like
<kazade> I've just endlessly upgraded the same PC I bought in 1997 :)
<gord> come on battery tech, improve already!
<dwatkins> ali1234: yes, I bought one last year.
<Psychobudgie> oi, I'm the one that trolls mac users
<oimon> kazade: i have a p4 at home, runs on lucid nicely
<kazade> oimon, mine is currently a AMD Athlon X2 3200+ I think (stopped caring a while back)
<Psychobudgie> wouldn't you be better running lucid on the p4
<ali1234> dwatkins: btw when i say equivalent PC, i mean one you build yourself from parts, and does not have a shiny alu case
<kazade> oimon, obviously the whole system has been replaced since 97.. just incrementally
<DJones> oimon: Just compared the two processors in the desktop & laptop, the desktop's benchmark is 50% faster than the laptop, but its not noticable (probably because the desktop has win 7 & the laptop has ubuntu) :)
<oimon> the choice is prob cire i3-2100 or a i5-2400
<oimon> DJones: yeah, strange ...i guess other things come into play such as drive speed etc
<popey> Psychobudgie: you're slacking :)
<Psychobudgie> popey, I know, it's the recession
<popey> ahh
 * popey chucks a penny in Psychobudgie's hat
<Psychobudgie> nobody can afford to buy an overpriced 2005 PC running macOS these days
<popey> for some people power isn't the primary reason
<Psychobudgie> woohoo, a whole shiny penny, thanks mister, I can eat for a week now
<oimon> price for me
<oimon> needs to be < Â£500
<Psychobudgie> popey, you aren't suggesting mac users are shallow and pretentious now?
<popey> You're right, I'm not.
<Psychobudgie> popey, I almost caused a war in here the last time I was misunderstood by some to be saying something like that but wasn't
<Psychobudgie> cause, they aren't
<popey> "they"
<popey> where "they" == generalisation
<Psychobudgie> sorry, substitute 'they' for 'prerentiou.....mac users'
<popey> what about the non-pretentious users?
<Psychobudgie> I dunno, I think he's at work, I'll call him later and ask
<popey> Quick! brobostigon! change the subject!
<Psychobudgie> seriously though, I used to own a mac back when they weren't fashion accessories
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> Psychobudgie: 1985?
<Psychobudgie> 96ish
<brobostigon> popey: huh ?
<popey> blimey, and oimon thought _I_ was the troll
<Psychobudgie> used it for controlling a sound desk
<oimon> :D
<oimon> mac os 9 sucked though didn't it?
<oimon> perhaps thats cos i was using acorn RISC OS at the time, and everything else sucked by comparison
<Psychobudgie> I wouldn't use the term sucked as it tends to upset users but it wasn't as bad as it could have been
 * DJones changes the subject by wondering what he did with his Apple ][
<Psychobudgie> see, I can spin most things positively despite what others say
<oimon> i think i started this convo by asking which processor to buy for my staff
<oimon> :S still no closer
<Psychobudgie> oimon, what are you like
<DJones> Just ask the staff which games they want to play and work around the best for that
<oimon> DJones: they run linux :D
<popey> I went to a car dealership yesterday. I saw KDE on the desktop
<DJones> They can still play games
<oimon> popey: car giant?
<Psychobudgie> oimon, buy them all the cheapest pc you can find. Essentially all your staff are interested in are 'can I use facebook'
<popey> no
<DJones> popey: Did you get your clutch sorted?
<popey> no, it's properly broken
<popey> car needs MoT on friday so may be uneconomical to repair
<Psychobudgie> buy a skateboard
<MartijnVdS> Popey McFly
<Psychobudgie> heheh
<DJones> I need to get mine mot'd at the weekend, at least its just been serviced & checked over so should be ok
<oimon> Psychobudgie: hardly any of them use facebook , mostly they use pine :D
<oimon> a lot of them hate getting new stuff
<Psychobudgie> in that case put gnome 3 on all the new machines, they'll love you for it
<oimon> that's another bridge i'll have to cross one day
<oimon> fortuantely we use RH based distro
<oimon> so not for another few years
<Psychobudgie> which distro?
<oimon> scientific linux
<Psychobudgie> thought you were going to say caldera for a moment
<Psychobudgie> heh
<oimon> the problem is with RH based stuff is that you end up rolloing your own packages a lot
<Psychobudgie> um, quick question but why Cern Linux?
<Psychobudgie> I understand why Cern use it, but why you?
<oimon> i work in a university, it's really popular in scientific faculties
<oimon> e.g. we run it on the HPC clusters too
<Psychobudgie> fair enough
<oimon> it's similar to centos
<Psychobudgie> just checking it wasn't down to just hating your staff like the rest of us
<Psychobudgie> If I could I would force mine to use windows me
<Psychobudgie> or unity
<oimon> i like my staff
<Psychobudgie> darn it, sorry, couldn't help that, my brain was screaming 'don't type it' but I couldn't stop myself
<oimon> i want them to do well :D they have an incredibly stable distro
<oimon> except the packages are really old
<Psychobudgie> I don't really hate my staff, just some of them
<oimon> i'm thinking of changing distro
<oimon> but then rhel6 came out, so i'm hanging on a bit longer
<oimon> and rhel works really well with our infrastructure
<oimon> ldap/nfs/kickstart etc
<oimon> puppet
<Psychobudgie> I tend to remain faithful to one distro until it gets to the point where it's pretty much unusable so I see where you are coming from
<oimon> running a fully managed desktop in linux is an absolute joy..i've done windows in the past too and everything was a hassle
<BigRedS> oimon: fully managed? As in active-directory style?
<oimon> BigRedS: you reffering to win or lin?
<BigRedS> well, both
<BigRedS> wondering what you meant by 'fully managed'
<oimon> i mean no admin rights
<BigRedS> ohhhhh
<oimon> IT staff only ones who install stuff
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, I was wondering what you'd done to get the sorts of automation you have in AD onto Linux without hassle
<BigRedS> but if you've not emulated AD, that'd be why there's no hassle :)
<gord> netbook has gone insane
<gord> clicking on channels closed them
<bigcalm> gord: maybe it wants you to do some work?
<gord> it closed work channels too ;)
<gord> oh they are filming this, boo
<ali1234> ok i did mac pro vs ebuyer: http://bit.ly/mmJMLA
<oimon> just had a cold call from microsoft :-|
<gord> clippy has gone rogue
<ali1234> dwatkins: ^
<oimon> they asked how many windows 7 and office 2010 we have
<oimon> "as few as possible, good bye"
<ali1234> i'm sure i forgot stuff though
<popey> the OS :)
<ali1234> ha
<popey> 25 quid?
<ali1234> i wouldn't use mac os x even if it was free
<ali1234> i didn't include keyboard and mouse either
<ali1234> because who wants to use a keyboard with wrong keymap and a mouse with only one button lol?
<gord> osx is fairly cheep isn't it? i haven't looked but thats the impression i get
<popey> it is
<ali1234> it's certainly not Â£1500 for OS, kb and mouse anyway :)
<popey> maintenance?
<ali1234> none included
<oimon> mac pro are sandy bridge now right?
<ali1234> afaik sandy bridge is not for sale yet
<bigcalm> Sounds like a porn star name
<ali1234> oh wait i was thinking of ivy bridge
<ali1234> which also sounds like a porn star name
<popey> spooky
<popey> first item in my twitter stream is someone saying "IvyBridge :-)"
 * popey wondrs if Omer Akram is ali1234's alternate name
<dwatkins> ali1234: thanks, i shall have a read
<dwatkins> ali1234: I bought a Macbook Pro, I gather the Mac Pro desktop machines have very recent processors which can lead to them being rather expensive; there's also the support of course.
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> but buying the very latest stuff has never been good value for money
<ali1234> and i don't need support
<ali1234> also don't go out and buy what i've put in that spread sheet and expect it to work
<ali1234> i have no idea if the bits are compatible
<ali1234> where i couldn't find equivalent i just picked the most expensive one i could find
<BigRedS> the support and guarantee of compatibility is, I think, what many people who buy Apple stuff are willing to pay for
<BigRedS> buying a Windows PC is _such_ a faff, especially if you're not really that interested in it
<ali1234> yes this is very true
<ali1234> but i am not many people
<ali1234> when i say "i would never buy it" i literally mean that
<popey> I love how people come up with reasons why people buy apple kit
<popey> nobody has so far come up with the reasons why _I_ bought apple kit :D
<ali1234> we all know it's because you hate freedom
<popey> Oh yes. That.
<bigcalm> popey: is it possible that you don't know why either?
<popey> Oh I have very specific reasons :)
<popey> they just aren't the reasons everyone else attributes :)
<bigcalm> You want everything to be white
<popey> Racist!
<popey> etc
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
 * popey rolls a six
<bigcalm> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/12/10/
<exobuzz> popey, because you are a http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/mac.gif ? :)
<bigcalm> Awww, that's wrong :)
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> great smiley for forums that
<popey> haha
<exobuzz> popey, you buy apple kit because it is competitively priced, well built, well designed, and looks great in the loo
<exobuzz> ?
<popey> So close.
<bigcalm> It does what you want it to do
<kaushal> hi
<popey> For the one in the kitchen, at least one requirement was "it needs to fit in the gap"
<kaushal> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<kaushal> I dont see netboot.tar.gz
<popey> i do
<ali1234> me too
<exobuzz> i have a tattoo of sir clive sinclair on my bottom, and because of this, I now buy spectrums. similar thing for you ? getting closer ?
<bigcalm> I see it
<kaushal> popey: are you referring to me ?
<popey> netboot.tar.gz26-Apr-2010 00:03 12M
<bigcalm> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/netboot.tar.gz
<popey> yes kaushal
<kaushal> ok
<exobuzz> popey, filling gaps in kitchens? isnt that the job for a joggler ? :)
<popey> its a big gap :)
<bigcalm> Lots of jogglers?
<bigcalm> A video wall of joggers
<bigcalm> I can't imagine anything slower
<exobuzz> a big gap? then there is no competion. you need a pdp-5 or similar.
<bigcalm> popey: I like your terrorist watch. I had one as a kid. I think my mum still uses hers from the same period
<exobuzz> popey, i take it the gap isnt big enough for a beer fridge? i cant see a apple device winning over additional storage for beer right ? :)
<popey> http://twitpic.com/2yfuwn
<popey> you can see the gap there
<popey> filled
<exobuzz> bigcalm, i skyped on the joggler the other day. was quite suprised at how usable it was
<bigcalm> PINK!
<bigcalm> exobuzz: with video?
<exobuzz> bigcalm, yep
<bigcalm> Cool
<popey> heh, photo of my desk from 6 months ago...
<popey> http://twitpic.com/377dng
<popey> not much has moved
<MartijnVdS> not even the bottle?
<exobuzz> popey, nice pick. well the mac looks nice there
<exobuzz> pic
<bigcalm> I'm looking forward to getting my 89 quid android tablet, though I expect it to be as slow and aggonising to use as the joggler
<exobuzz> popey, do you have a mac ini in the toilet ?
<exobuzz> mini
<popey> i have no mac minis
<exobuzz> i have 3 and a bright blue imac
<exobuzz> but dont tell anyone im a macw*****
<oimon> i've never used my mac mini
<oimon> it sits unloved on a shelf in my office...
<exobuzz> here is one of mine http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/files/4/43/Macmini-rack.jpg
<exobuzz> :)
<oimon> exobuzz: please tell me that's at home and not in a company rack ;)
<exobuzz> it's in telehouse facility in london docklands
<exobuzz> heh
<oimon> bigcalm: when's it arrive?
<exobuzz> http://www.mythic-beasts.com/macmini.html
<BigRedS> yeah, I've known several people shove mac minis into racks
<bigcalm> oimon: I was expecting it to ship at the end of this month, but it looks like it's been pushed back to the begining of July
<oimon> i thought july was the 2nd batch
<kaushal> 16:07:04 (1.74 MB/s) - `netboot.tar.gz' saved [45/45]
<bigcalm> Aha
<kaushal> something is wrong
<bigcalm> Then I might see it at the end of this month :)
<kaushal> bigcalm: Any clue ?>
<oimon> mind you, after i saw that android tablet, i discovered the asus transformer
<bigcalm> kaushal: humm?
<exobuzz> bigcalm, http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/download/file.php?id=19&mode=view (needs a wipe that joggler, i should have had a clean before making the pic)
<exobuzz> thats the joggler with skype on jolios
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> exobuzz: having the power leads coiled up like that may be producing some unwanted EMF
<exobuzz> thats just the webcam cord
<bigcalm> (The macminis)
<exobuzz> oh
<exobuzz> sorry heh
<bigcalm> No worries, I should have said in my line
<exobuzz> the mac minis are shielded mind
<bigcalm> I guess
<exobuzz> not in my control anyway. not my rack just i rent the space
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<exobuzz> that machine isnt technically there anymore, since the hd died. im actually on my 3rd mac mini. had some bad luck with them. hd, then failed ram or something, now on the 3rd one. heh
<bigcalm> :(
<oimon> ebuyer are trying to add a free "Webroot Internet Security Essentials" to my basket when buying a linux acer revo
 * bigcalm sticks with Bytemark
<oimon> "Password cannot contain non-alphanumeric characters" :S
<oimon> ebuyer fail
<oimon> can anyone explain what dialog(ue) sheets are?
<oimon> âdialog sheetsâ coming to Ubuntu 11.10Â http://goo.gl/fb/fWX6f
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Dialogs that drop down from the title bar?
<oimon> think i'm being dumb but i still don't get it .
<oimon> i guess they mean that you won't lose a file-open type window anymore
<DJones> Arg.. After getting a new 22" widescrenn at work, I thought it would be great having all the extra screen space over a 17" screen, but now it feels like theres too much space
<DJones> But, NO, I'm not giving it up
<popey> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/uupc
<popey> that work for anyone else?
<oimon> aaagh popey naked in his kitchen!
<popey> haha
<oimon> yes seems to be fine
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> yo
<czajkowski> popey: so never going on uupc now :p
<popey> haha
<DJones> Works for me, although a bit of a dodgy advert with blue people
<Apacheuk> popey: you have any idea as to how much bandwidth you using... say per hour?
<oimon> oh no ... http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/05/10/microsoft_windows_tv_adverts/
<popey> no idea
<popey> Apacheuk: but that webcam is configured to use 600kbs
<popey> and I have 3Mb/s upstream
<Apacheuk> and this is how I'm spending my lunch break :)
<popey> lol
<Apacheuk> along with 8 others
<popey> i should go and wave
<Apacheuk> can't you make it do something
<Apacheuk> popey: what time is the recording tonight?
<Apacheuk> now I want a cream egg
<popey> 2030
<ali1234> so.......
<ali1234> i need to download about 80GB of data from a linux server
<ali1234> i need something that will do rsync over night or something
<popey> rsync :)
<ali1234> rsync has a option to do that?
<popey> to do what?
<popey> cron it
<ali1234> how do i kill it though?
<popey> or if you are worried about bandwidth it has a rate limiting option
<popey> just kill it
<popey> it will carry on the next time you start it
<ali1234> i need it to run only between 11pm and 8am
<ali1234> does it resume partial files?
<popey> pkill rsync
<popey> yes
<ali1234> all good then
<NET||abuse> hey guys. having trouble with a nas box, Iceybox 4220-B, i installed screen on it but when i run it, it says no available PTY
<ali1234> oh there is one small problem
<ali1234> rsync exhausts the vps memory if i try to use it
<popey> NET||abuse: did you ssh then su?
<NET||abuse> popey, :P actuallly this isn' ubuntu
<popey> ali1234: put a small private webserver up and wget it?
<ali1234> i need to fetch 80Gb of >1Kb files
<NET||abuse> so i'm "admin" on the NAS's embeded linux OS.
<ali1234> i mean <1Kb
<popey> ali1234: wget -m --no-parent http://foo/bar/baz/
<ali1234> i need to keep it in sync from now on as well
<ali1234> tbh i don't trust wget
<ali1234> to not mangle all the filenames
<popey> scp then
<ali1234> ha ha ha ah ahha haha good one
<popey> :)
<ali1234> doing ls -lR in the directory i need to sync
<ali1234> i reckon it will take at least an hour, probably more
<ali1234> (i redirected it to a file)
<ali1234> see the problem i have is someone asked me to make them a private "wayback machine" and i did
<ali1234> and it grows in a ridiculous way
<oimon> ali1234: which OS does the server run?
<ali1234> unlike the original it polls pages every day and it saves absolutely everything by pushing the transfer through a proxy
<ali1234> oimon: it runs hardy iirc
<oimon> there was a bug in rsync which exhausts the memory
<ali1234> yes, been there, done that
<ali1234> even with the bug fixed it still uses an insane amount of memory
<oimon> oh
<ali1234> because even with the bug fixed rsync still keeps the whole file list in ram before it starts to transfer anything
<oimon> i can rsync milions of files no problem now
<oimon> AFAIK that's what the patch was supposed to fix
<ali1234> i'll run wc on the ls -lR when it finishes
<ali1234> maybe there was another bug :)
<ali1234> i had to do some crazy hacks to get this thing to work
<ali1234> like build my own lib32 by hand to make flashplugin work properly
<oimon> http://rsync.samba.org/FAQ.html#4
<oimon> Â It also introduced an incremental recursion mode that builds the file list in chunks and holds each chunk in memory only as long as it is needed. This mode dramatically reduces memory usage, but it only works provided that both sides are 3.0.0 or newer and certain options that rsync currently can't handle in this mode are not being used.
<ali1234> cooooool
<ali1234> ls -lR is 50mb already and nowhere near finished
<popey> ali1234: rsync 3?
<popey> oh
<popey> tar it up?
<popey> :)
<ali1234> i'm only doing this because the server is full
<Azelphur> Is there anything besides iptables that could block huge IP ranges?
<Azelphur> Also, iptables --list would show if iptables was blocking any IPs, right?
<MartijnVdS> your ISP could
<oimon> also, which services? /etc/hosts.deny could be blocking stuff
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, yea, I'm trying to prove that they are :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mtr :)
<ali1234> but what if they are not?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, makes it to the last hop, host says it could be a firewall on my box
<Azelphur> so I want to rule that out
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1047113 traceroutes :p
<Azelphur> since then I've been scanning IRC channels and randomly asking optimum online users to ping my server, it's been 100% failure rate. Pretty much anyone on optimum online has the same issue.
<dogmatic69> does anyone know why sudo apt-get remove mysql- would want to remove cherokee?
<dogmatic69> http://pastebin.com/F9Bz027G
<dogmatic69> edit: remove mysql-*
<ali1234> Azelphur: your traceroutes make no sense
<Azelphur> that's fun :D
<Azelphur> ali1234, yet there they are, I did them while VNC'd into an optimum online user, so they are what they are :)
<ali1234> the trace from user
<popey> is optimum online the isp that has the issue?
<Azelphur> popey, yep
<popey> sounds like the same issue I had
<Azelphur> popey, I scanned a bunch of channels for *.dyn.optonline.net and pm'd them asking to ping me, 100% fail so far
<popey> (which I did say the other day) :D
<Azelphur> popey, fun, what was your issue?
<Azelphur> ali1234, what doesn't make sense about it?
<oimon> traceroute is UDP traffic
<popey> I suspect it's due to the way your ISP has carved up the netblocks
<ali1234> Azelphur: it doesn't contain their ip
<ali1234> Azelphur: but it does start with 10 address
<Azelphur> so it doesn't, that's weird
<ali1234> then in your traceroute
<ali1234> the first response you get looks like a DSL hostname
<popey> Azelphur: you said something about a VPN the other day
<Azelphur> popey, yea, if he uses a VPN he can get to my site, that's how he got to my site to originally contact me about the issue :)
<Azelphur> popey, I verified his IP before I ran that traceroute.
<ali1234> how did you verify it?
<Azelphur> ali1234, loaded up my own website while watching access.log
<ali1234> but how did he access it ?
<Azelphur> I accessed it while on remote desktop, using chrome
<popey> so it worked?
<ali1234> but how if it doesn't work?
<Azelphur> sorry, different website host
<Azelphur> I have multiple boxes :P
<ali1234> ok
<Azelphur> he can connect to my VPS in england fine, that's what I used to verify
<popey> i reckon its the netblock issue
<ali1234> that's not 100% reliable btw
<Azelphur> popey, netblock issue?
<popey> the way your isp has divided up the IP addresses
<popey> your host is .242
<popey> I bet the customer can get to .241 and .243 just fine
<popey> (assuming they exist and are allocated)
<ali1234> how is that even possible?
<Azelphur> nah, he cant connect to my servers alternative ip addresses
<popey> which are?
<popey> give me all the addresses he cant get to
<Azelphur> however he does seem able to connect to others servers in the same
<Azelphur> dc
<popey> yes, thats what I'd expect
<popey> what addresses can he not get to?
<Azelphur> popey we tester fun.azelphur.com and azelphur.com
<Azelphur> tested* phone typing \o/
<oimon> fun.az has a 69.x.x.x address
<Azelphur> yea exactly
<ali1234> Azelphur:
<oimon> i guess it's a vlan routing issue
<oimon> he is originating from the same DC
<ali1234> Azelphur: you tracerouted FROM fun?
<Azelphur> ali1234 nope, good idea
<ali1234> no, you did
<ali1234> in your logs
<Azelphur> fun == azelphur.com
<ali1234> that's the one and only response
<Azelphur> they are the same box
<oimon> also, use tcptraceroute instead of traceroute since some routers block UDP traffic
<Azelphur> just different ips
<ali1234> but they have a different ip
<Azelphur> yea the box has 16 ips
<Azelphur> in 2 ranges
<ali1234> when you did traceroute from server to user
<Azelphur> in the forum thread
<ali1234> the one and only response you got came from the fun IP
<popey> hahah
<Azelphur> wtf
<ali1234> which is why i didn't understand it
<Azelphur> thats messed up haha
<ali1234> because you did a trace *TO* the main one
<Azelphur> so im routing traffic through myself?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's just the first hop
<popey> why on earth do you have two public IP's on the same box?
<popey> in completely different netblocks?
<Laney> redundancy
<oimon> wow i just cracked open an easter egg and there are smarties inside...when i was little, the smarties came seaparate :D
<popey> yeah, no single points of failure there :)
<Azelphur> popey because thats just how i was allocated them
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Laney> if one route goes down, the other can carry on working
<Laney> discaleimr I have not read the conversation ;-)
<Laney> dislcaimer i cannot spell that wod
<Laney> or the word 'word'
<popey> fail
<Azelphur> popey, just need more ips for all the services running on there, bought another 8, they allocated me some random 69 range :D
<Azelphur> ali1234, why would traceroutes first hop not be the default interface?
<ali1234> that must be the default interface
<ali1234> it doesn't really matter
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Google IO predictions - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/google-io-predictions/
<oimon> hmmm Azelphur what is the service delivered over? leased line or broadband
<ali1234> when you're sending the source ip is pretty much irrelevant
<Azelphur> oimon, my server is on 100mbps fiber
<Azelphur> ali1234, it's not the default interface
<ali1234> ls -lR is still running btw, now 300mb
<ali1234> Azelphur: what is the default interface?
<Azelphur> eth0 204.145.82.242 is the default interface
<Azelphur> 69.160.254.177 is eth0:4 lol
<ali1234> thats the same interface
<oimon> i had a 100mb connection which had a pair of addresses , plus the 16 address for me to use - is it the same situation?
<ali1234> that's the point
<Azelphur> ok :p
<ali1234> 1 interface multiple ips
<ali1234> which one you get when you ask for "the ip of eth0" really doesn't matter
<Azelphur> what's it doing though, just picking one randomly?
<ali1234> they are all equally valid
<Azelphur> yea, true
<ali1234> yeah randomly, pretty much
<Azelphur> ok :p
<Azelphur> oimon, I'll try tcptraceroute now
<oimon> are you sure the pair of addresses are not the point-to-point connections?
<Azelphur> oimon, huh?
<Azelphur> oimon, tcptraceroute produces the same result as the udp traceroute :p
<oimon> how many address in the 204.x range do you have, and how many in the 69.x range
<Azelphur> oimon, http://pastebin.com/RGAgS55B
<ali1234> Azelphur: so *none* of those addresses works?
<oimon> your netmask looks wrong
<oimon> eth0 has netmask 255.255.255.248 but eth0:0,1,2,3 have 255.255.255.0
<Azelphur> ali1234, from what I can see, yes. next time my optonline user comes online I'll ask him to ping each one individually
<ali1234> that does look a bit odd
<Azelphur> interesting o.O
<Azelphur> for the other interfaces I'm just doing sudo ifconfig eth0:0 204.145.82.243 up
<Azelphur> so maybe that doesn't set the netmask right
<oimon> similarly, i'd be surprised if the 69.x addresses are on a 255.0.0.0 , most liekly they have been carved up into smaller netmasks
<ali1234> Azelphur: it doesn't
<Azelphur> that's why that's weird then :p
<ali1234> and that may be related
<oimon> i think it is
<ali1234> in fact it 100% IS realted
<ali1234> problem solved
<Azelphur> really?
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> your guy is on a 69 IP too
<ali1234> your machine thinks you and him are on same subnet cos all your 69 IPs are on 255.0.0.0
<Azelphur> so 69.* can't connect
<ali1234> thus, it doesn't send packets to him to the router
<Azelphur> haha!
<ali1234> problem solved
<Azelphur> awesome
<oimon> the invoice is in the post
<Azelphur> so how do I set this up properly?
<Azelphur> haha
<oimon> what's in /etc/network/interfaces?
<ali1234> well assuming the 69 netmask is same
<ali1234> sudo ifconfig eth0:0 204.145.82.243 nm 255.255.255.248 up
<ali1234> etc
<Azelphur> oimon, http://pastebin.com/nHyRdfN7
<Laney> \o/ guy giving the keynot just said 'ecosphere'
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> are ubuntu trying to make their distributions names harder and harder to spell ?
<exobuzz> Oneiric Ocelot .... blimey
<Azelphur> haha
<DJones> exobuzz: Perky penguin will be an easy one to spell
<exobuzz> yay
<oimon> Azelphur: are you all good now?
<Azelphur> oimon, I'm just finding the gateway address for my 69.* IP's, then I'll take one of the unused IP's down and fix it, see if the user can connect to it
<ali1234> gateway should be the same?
<oimon> you should be able to fix it on the fly with the ifconfig command, and fix later in /etc/network/interfaces
<ali1234> oh wait ignore that
<ali1234> that's dumb :)
<oimon> Microsoft on Tuesday announced they would buy Skype Global for $8.5 billion in cash â the largest acquisition ever for the technology giant :-S
<ali1234> you have to put netmask not nm
<Azelphur> ali1234, yea, it is xD
<ali1234> although
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yeah i see
<Azelphur> oimon / ali1234  yep, that fixed it
<ali1234> when you try to connect a 69 address it's going to try to use the 69 interface
<Azelphur> now to fix all the other interfaces :D
<oimon> \o/
<ali1234> which is why the traceroute said what it said
<Azelphur> yep, fixed all my netmasks and now my optimum online friend can access everything \o/
<Azelphur> woo
<oimon> so ebay made a $6bn profit on skype ?
<ali1234> oimon: assuming the net profit/loss of running it was 0
<oimon> ali1234: yes, i don't know their P&L but assuming they at least broke even, they did well
<ali1234> yeah
<krimzon2> so who's got skype now?
<oimon> there's always a mug like microsoft who will buy the fully matured company
<oimon> MS
<ali1234> i'm not sure it's worth that much tbh
<oimon> hmmm my thunderbird's become unresponsive..shouldn't have clicked the folder with 33000 unread messages
<krimzon2> ahh, maybe they can swap those annoying magnetic borders for scrollbars that don't look the same as any other window's
<krimzon2> not that I've run skype on windows for a while
<oimon> i don't use skype, although i have it installed.
<oimon> i don't really phone people either lol
<ali1234> i use the n900 for skype
<bigcalm> Anybody care to help with a MySQL question? :) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/605665/
<ali1234> people call me on skype and i don't even realise
<ali1234> i just wonder why i'm getting a phone call on a mobile with no sim in it
<oimon> lol
<Azelphur> haha, that should make my game servers infinitely more popular
<Azelphur> 69.* is in and around NY, which is where players will get insanely low pings and thus play on my server more :P
<oimon> Azelphur: for fun or profit?
<oimon> or both :P
<Azelphur> I wish it was both, but unfortunately just fun atm :P
<Azelphur> maybe profit in the future :D
<dwatkins> What happened to 69.*, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> dwatkins, anyone in the 69.* range couldn't connect to my servers, haha
<Azelphur> and probably 204.* too
<ali1234> dwatkins: blocked due to bad network config
<dwatkins> oops, Azelphur
<ali1234> Azelphur: those interface had 255.255.255.0 netmask which means you only blocked people on 204.x.y.*
<oimon> i used to work in a company that used a 159.x.x.x network internally, even though it was a public IP. people regularly wondered why they couldn't get to the guardian website and others
<ali1234> where x and y are whatever your IP is
<Azelphur> oops indeed, it's been like that since last year
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> all the masks are 255.255.255.248 now \o/
<ali1234> Azelphur: it works like this: destination IP is bitwise and'd with netmask, if that equals your IP and'd with netmask, the packet is sent directly to destination IP, otherwise it is forwarded to default gateway
<ali1234> that's everything you need to know abut IP basically :)
<bigcalm> *glazed look*
<Azelphur> yea, I know what subnet masks are :D
<Azelphur> just didn't know what my old subnet mask was lol
<ali1234> so you would be getting the packets, but the replies would never get to the first hop
<ali1234> also that's why they time out instead of getting a blocked response from first router or something
<dwatkins> I'd like to see this MS-buying-skype story turn into one about them discovering just how many people run Linux [90% of the time, despite having windows]
<ali1234> um wat?
<ali1234> i'm sure MS would have asked questions like this before buying
<ali1234> "how many linux users you got?" "oh, about 10"
<dwatkins> they probably knew already from the browser stats, I guess
<dwatkins> that's fairly indicative
<dwatkins> according to w3schools, Linux makes up just over 5% over internet users, Mac users are just over 8%.
<ali1234> internet users or w3schools users?
<BigRedS> w3schools users
<BigRedS> every so often someone decides to pretend teh two are equivalent
<ali1234> ls -lR finished - got a 700mb file
<oimon> w3schools contains amongst other things, a load of ASP and other MS centric stuff
<ali1234> but it's still targetted at developers
<ali1234> i'd be more interested in facebook stats
<ali1234> much more representative
<ali1234> hmm... 14 million files
<BigRedS> ali1234: I tend to go with Slashdot stats
<BigRedS> makes me feel less weird
<ali1234> meh, slashdot is pretty small site these days
<oimon> where are the fb and slashdot stats ?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics
<ali1234> nothing about OS on there though
<BigRedS> dunno, I just see /.'s every so often
<ali1234> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=94523840758
<ali1234> mac: 7% linux: 2%
<ali1234> http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2005/10/the-software-used-to-access-th-1.php <- stats for BBC
<oimon> 74% still using Windows XP :-O
<ali1234> linux: 0.41%
<ali1234> that one is really old though
<oimon> ahem, 2005
<ali1234> (facebook stats from 2009 too)
<ali1234> 5% quoted by w3schools seems plausible
<oimon> ali1234: the facebook link wasn't facebook stats though
<ali1234> oh?
<ali1234> oh it's just some random person's facebook site?
<oimon> seems so
<ali1234> oops lol
<BigRedS> I think it's a hosting company's
<ali1234> oh wow who remembers this thing: http://i.imgur.com/NX7SM.jpg
<popey> heh
<DJones> Yep
<ali1234> sorry to be random, i was just updating my website stats and that picture was on a page which also links to my site
<oimon> i found a commodore amiga in someon's office the other day ...he had gone to the effort of bringing it to work to have on his shelf :S
<ali1234> big shelf, unless it was a a600
<oimon> a500
<DJones> oimon: Probably more like his other half had told him to get rid of that piece of antique/junk, its just gathering dust
<oimon> i think he was a basement dwelling oddbod
<oimon> although i must admit, i've considered it too
<oimon> spreading random obsolete technical items around my room
<DJones> oimon: The taking junk to work to store, or being the basement dwelling oddbod
<oimon> ;)
<DJones> I'd take my junk to work, but thats were most of it came originally
<oimon> once we discovered a guy had brought over 50 books and various suits, coats, shoes etc to a cramped openplan office
<dwatkins> oimon: two of my colleagues have a window-sill full of either classic Macs or iMacs
<DJones> Where I used to work, the manager had a locked cupboard which only he had the key to.  When he was off sick, people were looking for things and had to cut the padlock off it thinking they might find work related things there, turned out to be his stash of "adult magazines" & Max Mosely style equipment
<dwatkins> I really wanted an Amiga when I was younger.
<Azelphur> hmm, my inspiron duo seems to have taken a step in the wrong direction, it says my wifi is disabled by a hardware switch, but my laptop doesn't have a wifi hardware switch.
<dwatkins> DJones: the mind boggles as to the things some people don't leave at home
<ali1234> Azelphur: i've seen dells do that in windows :(
<Azelphur> fun
<oimon> DJones: what type of comapny? ann summers?
<Azelphur> wonder if it's disabled in the bios o.o
<DJones> dwatkins: Yeah, specially as he got arrested a while later for indecent acts in the gents public toilets (But, too much detail & too much off topic)
<DJones> oimon: He was a pensions advisor
<oimon> hmm
<dwatkins> DJones: enough said, I won't recount how this reminds me of an ex-colleague.
 * dwatkins would like to point out he has always worked in technical support
<oimon> once i was trawling the squid logs in real time and saw a dude in the legal department looking at all sorts of nastiness
<oimon> bizarro stuff i'd never dream of
<oimon> the thing is, i could see him from where i was sitting..and he just had a poker face on
<DJones> oimon: Written warning or retained for blackmail purposes
<oimon> it was middle of the working day
<oimon> retained
<oimon> he was more trouble that it was worth
<oimon> sometimes you don't wanna get involved unless the big boss wants the guy out
<Azelphur> there, fixed the wifi by enabling and disabling it in the bios, weird.
<oimon> how can i get banshee to find all my cover art? seems to be loads still missing
<ali1234> run the plugin to fix mp3 tags
<oimon> ali1234: you mean the metadatare fixer?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you might want to enable the option that writes changes out to the fils first
<ali1234> otherwise it just goes in some db
<oimon> :( it never quite works how i want it
<oimon> plus the stupid thing where you get the songs entered twice
<oimon> maybe i have weird music taste and amazon etc don't have the cover art
<MartijnVdS> oimon: doubtful
<oimon> ah, it seems to collect them when i click the album
<oimon> although loads of duplicate song entries
<MartijnVdS> yeah I get loads of duplicates as well
<MartijnVdS> from my U1MS
<oimon> where every song gets entered twice , even though there only exists one file?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> oh not all
<MartijnVdS> just most
<davmor2> oimon: in banshee?
<davmor2> oimon: known bug if it is banshee
<oimon> davmor2: yeah, banshee http://i.imgur.com/Jzyk8.png
<oimon> btw i'm not responsible for those kylie minogue and jamelia songs...must be on a compilation of my wife's ...i wish they would hurry up and implement an Album artist browser :(
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> i'm subbed to that bug, someone is working on it
<oimon> me too :D
<oimon> bugzilla bug 540873
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 540873 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in panel_applet_lockable() (dup-of: 96800)" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540873
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 96800 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "[apport] gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in panel_applet_lockable()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96800
<oimon> calm down botty
<Adriannom> lo
<popey> lo
<Adriannom> just bought a VPS and there are thousands of failed login attempts per day...  is that...  normal?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Yep
<Adriannom> good
<popey> have secure passwords, or use keys to logon and disable password logons
<bigcalm> Adriannom: move sshd to a different port
<popey> and/or use denyhosts
<popey> and/or move ssh to another port
<popey> and/or use port knocking
<Adriannom> i think i'll do some of those things, thanks :)
<popey> :)
<Adriannom> the only concern i have left now is that the host appears to store control panel passwords in plaintext :(
<bigcalm> Adriannom: are you sure that's the control panel and not your web browser?
<Adriannom> bigcalm, they ask for certain letters over the phone
<bigcalm> Oh, I see
<Adriannom> i'm on a knife's edge as to whether to try to get my money back.  they were hacked a while ago and forced everyone to change their passwords because they stored them in plaintext, but if they're still storing them that way then... :|
<Adriannom> (fasthosts)
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> If you're with fasthosts, you'd be better off with Bytemark I think
<oimon> davmor2: do you have a link to the banshee duplicate entries bug? i'm on v 2.0.0 and i could only find a link to a closed bug from 1.8
<davmor2> oimon: one second
<Adriannom> signed up to a 12 month contract, what do you reckon my chances are of getting my money back?  signe dup about 7 days ago
<davmor2> oimon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/778476 that was my original but then it effects imports too it turns out
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 778476 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Importing cd's to banshee give 2 copies with different timings" [Undecided,New]
<oimon> davmor - thanks - i wonder if it's worth linking it to an upstream bug # in bugzilla
<oimon> that's where the banshee bugs seem to be
<oimon> possibly https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614171 ? lower comments say it's not limited to the library watcher either (i have that turned off)
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 614171 in Importing "[library watcher] Importing leads to duplicate and missing tracks if LibraryWatcher enabled" [Major,New]
<oimon> i want to like banshee but there's some major bugs including freezes that really get on my wick
<davmor2> oimon:  I think it has some great features but some huge bugs
<oimon> yep
<oimon> the devs seem to have a lot on their plate
<oimon> davmor2: actually my song timings are always the same, just dupes
<davmor2> oimon: yeah I think that is cd specific
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu moves to OpenStack - away from Eucalyptus???
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just got the press release in my email.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Budapest, 10th May, 2011: The Ubuntu project announces today that future versions of Ubuntu Cloud will use OpenStack as a foundation technology.
<popey> not surprising
<TheOpenSourcerer> no
<safiyyah> hi guys I am having a PPA error, "
<safiyyah> An unresolvable problem occurred while initialising the package information.
<safiyyah> Please report this bug for the 'update-manager' package and try to include the following error message:
<safiyyah> 'E:Type ânâ is not known on line 2 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/screenlets-ppa-lucid.list, E:The list of sources could not be read.'" the problem is when I check software sources I don't see it. Please help
<oimon> what is the content of the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/screenlets-ppa-lucid.list file?
<oimon> clementine music player is looking attractive right now
 * DJones wonders whether the external IT support contractor really meant to leave cd with Nuke & Boot lying around on a desk
<BigRedS> me wonders how you do it that way round
<BigRedS> er s/^/\//
 * oimon discovers that clementine also supports wii remote :D
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> trying to setup an entropykey to work with egd
<andylockran> I've got it listning on the external interface tcp 8888
<andylockran> but I can't get egd-linux to connect to it
<DJones> Does anybody use an ubuntu machine to access a windows machine that has logmein unstalled on it?  What method do you use, I've read that there's hamachi, but not sure of thats the same thing
 * brobostigon decides after the discussion  ealier, to try denyhosts.
<KrisDouglas> When did Ubuntu shipit close/
<KrisDouglas> ?
<oimon> a guy delivering some printers dropped them 10 feet down some steps. when i queried it with him , he suddenly "me no speaka di english"
<DJones> KrisDouglas: I think it was about a month to 6 weeks ago
<KrisDouglas> DJones, that is a nightmare
<KrisDouglas> Our customers love ubuntu
<DJones> !shipit
<lubotu3> Canonical is no longer sending free Ubuntu CDs to individuals through its ShipIt program.  For more information please see http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551 !LoCo teams can request CDs through this link https://forms.canonical.com/lococd/
<oimon> KrisDouglas: burn your own disks or buy them from canonical?
<DJones> 5th April that blog post is dated
<KrisDouglas> I'm gonna buy them from canonical
<oimon> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
<hamitron> do they sell single disks now?
<DJones> Minimum looks to be packs of 5
<hamitron> wtf, there is no 10.04 desktop one?
 * hamitron sulks
<oimon> obviously a mistake
<oimon> since there is kubuntu 10.04
<DJones> You'd think there would be as its LTS
<hamitron> I was hoping they may have sold a single copy of 10.04 for 2 quid or something
<hamitron> then i could get a shinny cd, and they could make a small profit
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> suppose, maybe the 10.04 cd there are just old stock
<DJones> hamitron: Its still LTS though, people are still likely to want them.  Maybe they've run out of them & won't add them unless they get sufficient requests to produce morwe
<DJones> more
<davmor2> Gord where are you?
<davmor2> gord. where are you even
<oimon> how will sabfdl get his 200 million ubunters without the 1004 cd's in the shop?
<oimon> argh i just clicked on the worst button in an application ever :(
<hamitron> imo, limiting distribution of cd to people having to buy 5, isn't going to encourage anyway
<hamitron> anyone
<hamitron> and then not even having all versions
<oimon> if you ever run clementine music player NEVER click on the hypnotoad
<safiyyah> oimon,  the contents are:
<safiyyah> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/screenlets/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
<safiyyah> n
<safiyyah> sorry I was busy sticking stuff on the keyboard
<oimon> safiyyah: remove the n from the 2nd line
<safiyyah> oimon, thanx
<oimon> i.e. remove the bad 2nd line then run sudo apt-get update and you'll be fine
<safiyyah> oimon, thanx I have done it :)
<safiyyah> does anyone have experience installing MSOffice on PlayOnLinux
<safiyyah> it keeps getting stuck on me
<^aDaM> Good afternoon all :)
<safiyyah> afternoon
<^aDaM> :>
<KrisDouglas> Just had a customer in saying their laptop was completely dead and not working. Plugged it in and it booted up absolutely fine. Turns out there was no power at their house. I seriously wonder how they didn't notice; considering the charger has a light on it.
<shauno> had one of those last weekend.  "now press the power button ...".  you really don't expect them to happen in real life :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - been so busy just read about Skype.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the kiss of death then.
<shauno> they claim they're not dropping support for other platforms .. but of course, that now depends on their definition of 'other platforms' :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't mean for Linux per-se. More Microsoft's inability to make any money from on-line.
<ging> because they're fools
<ging> google and facebook surely prove the best way to make money from online is not to charge
<ali1234> the reason microsoft never make any money online
<ali1234> is because all they ever do is copy other people's products
<ali1234> this doesn't work when you can't force people into using your version because it's just another website
<KrisDouglas> or buy other people's products and bastardise them
<ali1234> when they do that they are usually successful
<ali1234> because they usually give the result away
<hamitron> you can be sure they will put new features in the clients for certain platforms, missing out others that miss "Media Player Tech"
<ali1234> well that wil destroy skype completely
<ali1234> the only reason people use it is because it works in a way that none of the others do because of codec issues
<ali1234> and firewall issues as well
<hamitron> it could be annoying for users with devices and skype integrated
<hamitron> tv's, psp, etc
<ali1234> why?
<hamitron> if they change something, it could break them
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> and that would be the end of skype
<hamitron> you reckon killing off PSP users would kill skype?
<AlanBell> they have to be a little bit selective about which clients they break
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> they won't want to kill the PSP users
<ali1234> but because skype is such a uniform system controlled by ... well skype
<ali1234> they won't be able to do that
<shauno> that's the whole point of skype for me.  I don't have to care if the other person is using windows, or their phone, or whatever
<ali1234> it's not like there is 10 different implementations of a skype client
<AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if there were some client updates and protocol bumps
<ali1234> there's a few
<hamitron> same AlanBell
<ali1234> but those protocol versions exist for all platforms
<AlanBell> for "security" reasons
<ali1234> so if you kill all old skype versions
<AlanBell> with some clients lagging behind others in the update cycle
<ali1234> you block a large part of the network
<hamitron> must people I know, never cared that MSN didn't work on linux at the time..... it was my fault for not using windows
<AlanBell> I suspect they won't want to disconnect the linux clients though, because I suspect quite a few supernodes run linux
<hamitron> yeh
<brobostigon> what permissions doineed to give stuff in /var/www ?
<AlanBell> brobostigon: www-data needs read access
<AlanBell> it might need write access to some areas as appropriate
<hamitron> I'm gonna start using the skype linux client for badness
<brobostigon> AlanBell: umm, i am unsure how to achieve that.
<hamitron> the more users on linux use it, the less of an excuse MS have to ignore it
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> they won't care much about disconnecting linux clients temporarily from time to time except for the supernodes
<hamitron> I'm sure :/
<hamitron> but still like to try
<AlanBell> it is all about the supernodes really
<AlanBell> they can't afford a monoculture of supernodes
<hamitron> but I like to moan and complain..... seems like a great thing to moan about \o/
<safiyyah> just read up
<safiyyah> what is happening with skype?
<MartijnVdS> it's being bought by Microsoft
<AlanBell> !permissions
<lubotu3> An explanation of what file permissions are and how they can be manipulated can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions
<safiyyah> oh dear
<AlanBell> ^^ brobostigon
<safiyyah> do we have a skype cross platform alternative?
<AlanBell> not one with millions of users
<safiyyah> plus people are not exactly switching to linux
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, i figured out, how to chown www-data access to /var/www, however it is still saying "403 - forbidden".
<safiyyah> the r simply upgrading windows
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: Google Talk :)
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: it has video, audio, chat
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: and it works with Empathy (on Ubuntu, out of the box)
<AlanBell> brobostigon: do ls -l of the file you want to read
<brobostigon> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root    root    3569 2011-05-10 11:45 index.lighttpd.html
<brobostigon> drwxrwxrwx 4 ptaylor ptaylor 4096 2011-05-10 16:50 pivotx
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that is the output.
<MartijnVdS> World writeable? You scary man
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear, not intentional, mymistake, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Are you sure you want those files to be world-writeable?"</reword>
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i know the concequences. no worries.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and it didnt intentionall do that.
<brobostigon> i*
<MartijnVdS> Files in /var/www need to be readable by the "www-data" user (or whichever other user you're running your web server as)
<MartijnVdS> Some directories might need to be world-writeable because of brain-dead PHP scripts
<AlanBell> um yeah, rwxrwxrwx is not ideal
<MartijnVdS> the +x bit might also confuse apache
<AlanBell> but anyhow, the point is that isn't owned by www-data
<MartijnVdS> making it think it's actually executable (CGI script)
<hamitron> bbl, food
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> so chmod -x index.lighttpd.html
<AlanBell> actually chmod ugo -x index.lighttpd.html
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that html file i canreadfine,
<AlanBell> to do it for user, group and other
<AlanBell> then chown www-data: index.lighttpd.html
<AlanBell> and chmod go -w index.lighttpd.html
<AlanBell> and maybe chmod u -w index.lighttpd.html if you don't want the web server to be able to write to that file
<AlanBell> the permissions are in three groups: user, group, other
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i can pickup that html file fine, however it is the whole of  the pivotx folder, with seems to be giving me the forbidden error. so do we reallyneed tochange nything on tht html file?
<exobuzz> nginx ftw ;-)
<AlanBell> you need to reduce permissions as much as possible or nasty hackers will own your box
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks the garage have lost my car...
<AlanBell> however chown -R www-data: pivotx will sort you out as a starting point
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: lost!!
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok ,what is the minimum permissions we canhave, and allow the whole of /var/www to bepickedup?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, they left the garage at about 16:30 to bring it here.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: make www-data the owner of it all and give owner read only access
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: you need slightly different perms for files and directories.
<AlanBell> or you can make ptaylor the owner and put www-data in the same group and give the group read access
<TheOpenSourcerer> files 644 is OK and dir 755
<MartijnVdS> http://www.zzee.com/solutions/unix-permissions.shtml :)
 * AlanBell does not talk about permissions in octal
<TheOpenSourcerer> If the ownder is correct you could go for 600 and 700 files & dirs.
<MartijnVdS> hmm octal
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's less typing
<AlanBell> the problem with octal is that people dont understand what it does
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but it's easy!
<AlanBell> it is less typing for people who do understand what it does
<brobostigon> umm, slow down, i cant keep up.
<MartijnVdS> read(4), write(2), execute(1), just add them up
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_permissions#Octal_notation
<AlanBell> ok so the rwxrwxrwx stuff is three groups rwx for the owner rwx for the group rwx for everyone else
<MartijnVdS> setuid(4), setgid(2), sticky(1) + 3x read(4), write(2), execute(1).. just add
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes... 777
<brobostigon> AlanBell: umm, three sets of three,ok.
<AlanBell> call them binary digits and r-- becomes 100(binary) which is 4(decimal) rwx is 111 (binary)which is 7 (decimal) etc
<AlanBell> so rwx rwx rwx is three lots of 7, i.e. 777
<brobostigon> ah, ummm, makes sense, i think,
<AlanBell> so 644 is 110 100 100 or rw-r--r--
<MartijnVdS> actually octal, not decimal :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The garage is also now closed. So I have no way of ascertaining the whereabouts of said car.
<MartijnVdS> because they're groups of 3 bits, octal = easy
<MartijnVdS> (it's like decimal with 2 fingers chopped off)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: 100 binary is 7 in decimal and octal
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes, up to 7 octal and decimal are the same
<MartijnVdS> then it's 10 vs 8 :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: uumm, i think so, yes.
<AlanBell> yes
<MartijnVdS> I've been doing this for a while now :P
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> ok, so brobostigon the 777 or 644 stuff people talk about is just a short way of saying which bits of rwxrwxrwx are turned off and on
<AlanBell> to open a directory you need execute permissions to it
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i think i hve it now, yes.
<AlanBell> so 755 (rwxr-xr-x)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: sointheory, i just need to make /var/www and its contents, readble by www-data.?
<AlanBell> so owner can go into it and create files (read, write and execute) group and other can go into it but not change stuff (read+execute)
<brobostigon> chmod -R /var/www ?
<brobostigon> chmod -R 755 /var/www ?
<AlanBell> for stupid historical reasons it is chmod -r and chown -R (or the other way round I always get it wrong)
<brobostigon> ok, it will always tellme, if i have it wrong.
<TheOpenSourcerer> -R works for both in my experience AlanBell
<AlanBell> hmm, ok
<AlanBell> one works with lower case too then
<brobostigon> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-05-10 17:39 www
<brobostigon> is that right?
<AlanBell> it is right if that is what you want
<brobostigon> i want people to be able to read what i put in /var/www
<DJones> Excellent, I can log into my work PC using ubuntu & chromium-browser from home via logmein
<AlanBell> brobostigon: you want apache running as www-data to read it then hand it out what it reads to anonymous people
<brobostigon> AlanBell: iam not using apache, i am using lighttpd
<AlanBell> ooh, ok
<AlanBell> what user does that run as?
<brobostigon> not aclue.
<AlanBell> ps aux |grep lighttp
<brobostigon> www-data 29331  0.0  0.7   5092  1784 ?        S    11:45   0:00 /usr/sbin/lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf
<AlanBell> ok, so it is running as the user called www-data
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> so in general you want to arrange things so that www-data can read stuff
<AlanBell> if you want people to be able to upload things to certain folders then you need to allow it to write to them and create files
<AlanBell> if you want to use something like wordpress with automatic updates then it needs to be able to write to it's own php files as appropriate
<AlanBell> you really don't want to allow people to arbitarily upload php files and then run them
<AlanBell> or persuade your http task to write to files that it will then execute
<AlanBell> PHP is an architectural failure of the concept of separating code and data
<AlanBell> but it does run some nice applications
<bearslumber> Hi, Can I ask Ubuntu/Kubuntu questions?
<brobostigon> ok, umm, i have made notes of whatwe have upto now. no, i dont wat randompeople to play around. not a good idea.
<brobostigon> bearslumber: good evening, fire away, always.
<AlanBell> bearslumber: sure
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, thank you for you help, i have made extensive notes.
<bearslumber> Cheers. I wondered can I install Ubuntu and Kubuntu so I can choose between either desktop?
<Psychobudgie> you can but be aware it can occasionally mess up fonts in ubuntu
<AlanBell> bearslumber: I think if you install the ubuntu-desktop package and the kubuntu-desktop package you end up with everything and can choose on login
<brobostigon> bearslumber: yes, install kubuntu-desktop, and ubuntu-desktop, and then switch between them in gdm.
<bearslumber> Sounds good. How, by Ubuntu CD then Kubuntu?
<AlanBell> I think you end up with the branding of the one you install last
<AlanBell> so you can start with either CD and install the -desktop package of the other one
<AlanBell> and the gdm theme ends up being overwritten by the second one (I think)
<bearslumber> AllenBell: Thanks AlanBell. I see. Does that mean either  GDM theme copes with both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
<AlanBell> yeah, I think so
<AlanBell> haven't tried it for a few releases though
<AlanBell> let us know how you get on
<daubers> Evening
<bearslumber> AllanBell: brobostigon: Okay guys. Thats all I need to go ahead. Will post back soon. I'm off to do it while the iron is hot. Many thanks. Bye
<ali1234> hmm that's nice, xcode adds copyright boiler plate for you
<ali1234> i always forget to do that
<jacobw> all your copyright are belong to apple :p
<emorris> Hi, I've got Ubuntu on my laptop and netbook. My netbook is currently on 11.04, and my laptop 10.10. I want to upgrade my laptop, but was wondering whether it's possible to re-use the packages downloaded for the netbook upgrade, then just download any additional packages?
<jacobw> evening
<jacobw> oops scroll failt
<MartijnVdS> emorris: Maybe. The packages might still be in /var/cache/apt/archives on the netbook
<MartijnVdS> emorris: put them in /var/cache/apt/archives on the laptop and start the upgrade
<emorris> MartijnVdS, cool, there's loads in there; I'll give it a shot. Thanks!
<AlanBell> gord: it is officially the springboard now, been announced on the podcast and everything
<shauno> surprised how closely the streams are in sync.  video via ustream, audio the normal way
<jacobw> how are people finding the performance of unity?
<brobostigon> non-existant, dont use unity.
<brobostigon> :p
<MartijnVdS> I don't have problems with it
<MartijnVdS> except the un-autohide might be a bit quicker
<ocean> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<ali1234> i think 2.6.38 is a lemon :(
<ali1234> keep hearing bad things about it
<hamitron> 2.4 <3
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> hope you enjoy manually configuring all your hardware though
<hamitron> tbh, I found it more fun
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but I accept it isn't the way forward
<hamitron> wasn't there some debate about how they change the development cycle when 2.6 branch started?
<ali1234> it sure was damn reliable once you set it up
<ali1234> there wasn't any debate
<ali1234> basically there is never going to be a 2.7
<hamitron> well, some didn't like the changes
<ali1234> might as well just call it v38
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> how long is 2.4 "supported"
<hamitron> I've started to lose what I gained, when first moving to linux
<ali1234> linux is never directly supported by the developers
<hamitron> no
<ali1234> 2.4 is supported for as long as you can find someone who will sell you a support contract
<hamitron> but I mean, by supported.... people maintaining it
<ali1234> it will be maintained while there are still people willing to pay for support
<hamitron> keep playing with the idea of looking into linuxfromscratch
<hamitron> learning from an old version of the book
<hamitron> and seeing if something useful can still be built
<jibadeeha> what do you guys think the future is for netbooks ... are they on their way out, or are tablets just a fad?
<daubers> lo
<popey> evening all
<brobostigon> evening popey and daubers
<awilkins> I can't see the point of tablets, personally. But I don't find netbooks ideal either - useful as a reading device, but rubbish for input
 * popey covers his ipads ears
<popey> ali1234: I saw this and thought of you http://people.cs.vt.edu/~mjeg/blog/2011/04/25/fast-ssh-file-copy-with-tar
<davmor2> moo!
<awilkins> popey, Neato, I sometimes use an archiver for that purpose (reduce file attribute thrashing), but I'd not thought of using tar like that.
<davmor2> It's official gord doesn't exist
<awilkins> A shame that won't work on Windows without farting around setting up an sshd
<kazade_> Sigh, XChat keeps crashing :/
 * popey cuddles kazade_ 
<jibadeeha> awilkins, yeah i can't see a use case for myself where i would use a tablet .. just hope companies don't stop making netbooks, as they work perfect for my needs
<ali1234> popey: nice one, i assume tar to stdout then pipe over ssh?
<ali1234> thanks, that might just work
<popey> np
<ali1234> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> so i have hardy 64 bit, with a lucid 64 bit chroot inside it, and the hardy lib32 is symlinked to the lucid chroot lib32
<ali1234> and i chrooted to the lucid and did apt-get update
<ali1234> but apparently theres no updates
<ali1234> which seems odd cos i haven't updated it since a year ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That's a neat use of tar & ssh. Should be in www.commandlinefu.com (if it isn't already of course).
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> ok, it was cos i didn't put lucid-updates in sources.list
<ali1234> hmm is there a way to prevent apt/dpkg from touching a directory?
<ali1234> or make them ask me before installing files in a path
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: as it runs as root, probably not, unless you set the immutable nit
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\nit\bit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then it will crash spectacularly I would guess :-)
<ali1234> hmm a flashplugin update
<ali1234> i hoeps its not the same broken one from natty
<popey> you could pin the package
<popey> unlikely anything depends on it
<ali1234> except my app
<TheOpenSourcerer> time for bedski said zebedofski
<popey> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> nn
<ali1234> damn it *is* the same one from natty
<ali1234> lame, i better not get white rectangles in all the screenshots now
<ali1234> that will be really annoying
<popey> no i mean it wouldn hold anything else back
<ali1234> too late now i didn't notice it until it already installed :(
<popey> ah
<ali1234> i don't think it uses the one from inside the chroot actually
<ali1234> i think that's just there to get the deps
<ali1234> i should probably check my notes before i start messing with the server
<ali1234> otoh if lucid and natty have same flash, then maverick probably did too
<ali1234> so maybe it's actually a ff4 problem
<ali1234> arg how do i connect to a server on natty?
<ali1234> places->connect to server
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<popey> ali1234: nautilus, file -> connect to server
<ali1234> so now i have to go somewhere i don't want to go first before i can go where i want to go?
<ali1234> logical
<reaper4334> just like how System Settings is under the power menu
<ali1234> oh wow what is that?
<ali1234> gnome has a big control panel thing now too?
<bigcalm> Took me ages to find the system settings menu. Only found it after giving up and went to shut down
<ali1234> at least gnome's one picks up nvidia-settings - the one in xfce doesn't
<reaper4334> bigcalm: almost same, I was giving up and going to log out to switch to classic
<ali1234> i just typed the name of the thing i wanted in dash
<bigcalm> What if you don't know what you're looking for and just want to browse?
<popey> 12
<ali1234> like "update" or "synaptic" or "passwords"
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> 42
<ali1234> i already know all the gnome settings applets off by heart
<ali1234> but if i was a new user i would hate it
<ali1234> i still hate it a little bit
<popey> settings seems to find it in dash
<bigcalm> I'm more of a server user than the desktop
<popey> you hate freedom more than I :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I use computers as a tool
<awilkins> I found the settings thing being in the power menu... odd
<awilkins> Especially since it's the bottom item
<awilkins> I expect the bottom item to be something that exits in some manner
<ali1234> ok anyone know a really horrible flash website that uses multiple embeds all over the place and will really test any browser?
<awilkins> Either logout or shutdown
<reaper4334> Yeah, I think it was shutdown before
<popey> ali1234: newgrounds?
<ali1234> they have no flash onthe front page at all
<popey> just a guess, sorry
<bigcalm> weebls-stuff.com ?
<bigcalm> I think it might be time for beddiebies
<ali1234> all this stuff has almost no flash at all :/
<popey> http://www.thefwa.com/
<ali1234> better
<popey> mtv.com does
<popey> if you choose uk
<ali1234> seems to be working still
<ali1234> although i might have to increase the loading delay
<ali1234> flash sites take so long to load :(
<popey> you've made a browsershots-a-like?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it also "rips" the entire page
<ali1234> including all the urls, in a way that can be played back to the browser
<ali1234> i didn't actually write most of it
<popey> neat
<ali1234> https://github.com/AdamN/python-webkit2png/blob/master/webkit2png.py
<ali1234> i started with that ^
<ali1234> and added flash plugin support and proxy-cache based on how pachyderm works
<ali1234> curse google and there annoying url redirect that breaks copy paste
<ali1234> google pachyderm proxy if you want to know, it's top hit
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/IMG_20110510_231755.jpg
<Azelphur> weeeeeeeee, it's alive \o/
<popey> what is that thing on the desk, on the left
<ali1234> water cooler radiator?
<popey> ahh
<Guest4574> hi guys, is there any 64 bit of flash player deb file available for ububtu
<ali1234> there is an experimental ppa
<Guest4574> can u get me the link pls, is it available to download from adobe site?
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash
<ali1234> "it should not be used"
<awilkins> You can just grab the .so from Adobe also
<awilkins> And dump it in ~/.mozilla/plugins
<ali1234> Guest4574: are you having the white rectangle bug?
<ali1234> bug 761074
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 761074 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "flashplugin-nonfree draws white rectangles" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761074
<Guest4574> awilkins, that sounds easy, but where can I get the .so file for 64 bit
<Guest4574> ali1234, what is the rectangular bug
<awilkins> http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10_square.html
<ali1234> well, you get lots of white rectangles over flash embeds
<ali1234> like this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/69392440/Bildschirmfoto-1.png
<Guest4574> awilkins, thats a tar file isnt it
<ali1234> yes it is
<awilkins> Guest4574, Contains the libflashplayer.so file
<Guest4574> awilkins, so just copy and paste it to mozilla /plugin?
<awilkins> ~/.mozilla/plugins
<Guest4574> awilkins, would it allow me to watch u tube?
<awilkins> Guest4574, I don't seem to have a problem and it's been in my plugins folder for ages (I'm on v 10.2 d161 though - older)
<Guest4574> ok, thats cool
<Guest4574> let me try
<Guest4574> :-)
<ali1234> why do web users always connect with a reasonable nick and then get changed to guest? nick collision?
<ali1234> if so, shouldn't that happen before they connect to a channel? or is nickserv just slow?
<ali1234> popey: the original version of my app put each version of thepage in a git repo
<ali1234> it was funny to watch web developers tweaking live pages in real time
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-11
<HazRPG> wooo! Going to see the family in Egypt soon \o/
<Azelphur> popey, yea, it's a radiator :p
<Azelphur> a big one :D
<Azelphur> with 4x 3000RPM fans strapped to the back of it
<Azelphur> I can't wait to turn that on, annoy the neighbours :D
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have cleared squid cache in squid
<kaushal> I am still unable to reach the global ubuntu mirror
<kaushal> is there a way to know where does squid deb proxy resides  ?
<kaushal> in the LAN
<ocean22> hi guys can any one help me to install adobe flash player on ubuntu 11.04 please
<JGJones> It should be in Software Centre, open that and search for it, does it show up?
<reaper4334> yeah, the firefox flash plugin is there as Adobe Flash plug-in
<ali1234> unity is a lot like the eve UI
<hamitron> :(
<ali1234> i wonder if i can get the eve icon on launcher to show my wallet balance when i mouse over it like the one in eve does
<hamitron> ali1234: for bitcoin!
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> my bitcoin wallet has 0.05 bitcoins
<ali1234> and i got those from the tap
<hamitron> one day.....
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> or you given up?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> I'm giving it till the next ubuntu LTS
<ali1234> generates too much heat and noise
<ging> one day bitcoin will make us all millionares
<hamitron> I suspect some tech in computing will arrive that will collapse the value
<hamitron> but I expect everything to mess up
<ali1234> nah that won't happen
<hamitron> \o/
<ali1234> there is a fixed number of coins
<ali1234> but what could happen is new tech -> one guy gets them all
<hamitron> common ali1234..... the world is going end as well ;)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> it could certainly wreck it anyway
<ali1234> at which point the few that are still circulating get really expensive
<ali1234> but then the one guy will sell all his stock
<ali1234> then the price will fall over time
<ali1234> or not
<ali1234> i mean you never really know
<hamitron> either way, it will be unstable
<hamitron> if you have someone able to click and affect the market like that
<ali1234> once all the coins are found it does not matter who has how much cpu
<ali1234> it just makes transactions cheaper
<hamitron> ali1234: won't you get coins for verifying transactions?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if people are willing to pay a transaction fee
<hamitron> I read people will have to later
<ali1234> if verifying transactions is trivial due to technology updates
<ali1234> then they won't have to pay
<ali1234> that's how i understand it anyway
<hamitron> I guess
<ali1234> transaction fee just gives you priority
<ali1234> so the harder to verify, the less can be verified, the more you have to pay for quicker transfer
<hamitron> I thought you had to pay for larger payments
<hamitron> but it is complicated :/
<ali1234> don't think so
<ali1234> it's just a bribe basically
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> "process my transaction first, get some money"
<hamitron> I like ;)
<ali1234> if there's no queue to jump there would be no need for fees
<hamitron> less people will run it I guess
<hamitron> could end up with people starting it up, just to pay
<ali1234> sure, if there's no money in transaction fees and no coins to mine, less people will run it
<ali1234> supply and demand and all that
<hamitron> but as you said, processing will be trival
<ali1234> not necessarily
<ali1234> that's just *if* some weird new tech comes along
<MichealH> <3 AndroIRC so far
<MichealH> I totally like Android
<hamitron> not used it myself
<hamitron> ali1234: the best effect bitcoin has had on me, is it has got me reading about opencl and cuda
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> opencl is nice
<hamitron> and it just makes me go "ouuuuuuuuuuuuu"
<hamitron> I haven't done any yet
<MichealH> This android phone is a Sony Ericsson Experia X8 , touchscreen keyboard is really slim, struggling to type!
<hamitron> but read a bit
<hamitron> if it works as good as it appears, tempted to get a graphics card for my server
<hamitron> just something small
<HazRPG> laters all, see ya when I'm on the other side (going to Egypt if ya didn't see the message earlier on)
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> cya haz
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: toodles :)
 * ball ponders
<MartijnVdS> uh-oh
<knightwise> mornin peeps !
 * ball falls over
<knightwise> morning ball
<knightwise> how are you
<TheAshMan> How do I enable a second network card in ubuntu server?
<TheAshMan> (10.04)
<MartijnVdS> just plug it in
<MartijnVdS> !interfaces
<knightwise> morning martijn
<knightwise> ou helped me with the linux podcasting script remember ?
<knightwise> well , i've "mentioned" all of you in the last podcast i did
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: You'll want to look at /etc/network/interfaces (manual available: type 'man interfaces')
<knightwise> I did a kind of a 'tribute story' to everybody who helped me. if you have a time to listen to kc 0052 on knightwise.com you might enjoy it
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: uh-oh :P
<TheAshMan> MartijnVdS, The thing is, theres a network cable plugged into it, but it doesn't show up in ifconfig
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: ifconfig is deprecated (it shuold show up with ifconfig -a)
<TheAshMan> ahh ok
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: "ip addr" should show it as well (as long as it has a mac/hardware address)
<TheAshMan> thanks
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<DJones> Morning all
<danfish> a hoy hoy saveloy(s)!
<oimon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13345309 they don't mention that the sub Â£100 computer runs ubuntu. you pay Â£30 more for another OS that is compatible with most viruses
<danfish> oimon: quite true, but I bet they won't have the oomph to run Unity 3D ;)
<oimon> i don't have the patience to run unity 3d ;)
<oimon> takes me 10x as long to switch windows
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<oimon> retired people might have the time though :D
<danfish> oimon: you just need MOAR graphics power - dual SLI cards should do fine
<oimon> it's not the hardware, it's the design :(
<MartijnVdS> danfish: QUAD SLI
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<danfish> MartijnVdS: showoff ;)
<dogmatic69> ive got a load balancer (ELB on aws) working, what is the best way to sync the servers under the load balancer
<bigcalm> Files or database?
<dogmatic69> files
<dogmatic69> db on a separate box with replication to another db box
<BigRedS> drbd
<bigcalm> Then you've got a setup exactly like how we are moving a big client on to. I have no idea about the file sync either :D
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> we in the same boat then :P
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: any chance of a simple how to guide
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: er, not from me, I've never configured it :)
<BigRedS> I gather it's reasonably simple, though
<bigcalm> Ah, our client didn't want to pay to join AWS, so they are going with RackSpace and dedicated servers
<dogmatic69> pay to join aws?
<dogmatic69> its free to join
<bigcalm> I dunno then
<dogmatic69> they charge you Â£1 to validate your card details
<bigcalm> For some reason they didn't want to enter the cloud
 * dogmatic69 knows as his card was blocked for fraud 
<bigcalm> Nice
<dogmatic69> barclays sucks btw
<bigcalm> I need to decide upon a load balencer for the dual box setup. Round Robin DNS or something else
<dogmatic69> im using aws ELB which is easy to do, guess its not as flexible as using haproxy or something manual
<bigcalm> Is ELB specific to AWS, or available for anybody to impliment?
<dogmatic69> its aws name Elastic Load Balancer
<dogmatic69> they add Elastic to the front of everything
<bigcalm> Heh
<dogmatic69> Elastic IP's
<dogmatic69> etc
<bigcalm> They'll be selling plasters next
<dogmatic69> EC2 = Elastic cloud compute
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> elastic block storage ~= hdd
<oimon> elastic band = mp3 downloads
<dogmatic69> elastic band aid could be recovery
<MartijnVdS> and the firewall would be Elastic Protection?
<dogmatic69> lol
<bigcalm> It's a shame that the RackSpace firewalls can't take a FQDN instead of an IP address for SSH access. Unless I'm mistaken
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi oi
<davmor2> czajkowski: you following whats going on?
<davmor2> gord: you are like internet cake....
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: rackspace sucks, good luck trying to create HA across different countries etc
<dogmatic69> they only allow you to create servers in the country you are registered
<czajkowski> davmor2: when I can
<dogmatic69> want more countries make more accounts
<bigcalm> HA?
<dogmatic69> high availability
<bigcalm> I see
<davmor2> czajkowski: cool do me a favour listen in on the thunderbird one and let me know what happens :D
<dogmatic69> or if you want us users to connect to a us based server and uk users to use the uk one etc
<czajkowski> davmor2: if the streaming holds up sure
<davmor2> :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: see pm
<oimon> anyone interested in finding out more about the www.alpha.gov.uk new gov website and the backend technologies, please upvote my question http://getsatisfaction.com/alphagov/topics/what_backend_technologies_does_alphagov_use
<gord> davmor2, i am in the lobby area, leaving today, if you don't come find me and say hello then all is lost!
<oimon> wearing a red carnation?
<gord> ha
<davmor2> gord: be down in 2 seconds be there
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> Morning.
<brobostigon> morning popey
<bigcalm> AFternoon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<hoover> mornin all
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<davmor2> Yay! gord exists after all he isn't internet cake
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<popey> Ooo, my GTX 460 arrived
<popey> glad it comes with two power connectors. might have to remove a hard disk to make power capacity available
<davmor2> gord: safe flight home dude
<s-fox> Hello.
<daubers> o/
<s-fox> Hello daubers
<s-fox> How goes?
<daubers> Slowly as ever
<danfish> do you think that if my broadband supplier claims to provide "up to 10 mbps" and actually tops out at 2.3mbps I can pay just 23% of the bill?
<dwatkins> danfish: there's probably a clause in the contract that says 'no'
<danfish> I think I already know the answer, but it could be a good legal battle to have (if you'd nothing better to do and the money)
<danfish> dwatkins: :)
<daubers> danfish: You'd probably have a good argument to put yourself on a lower package if they did one
<dwatkins> I switched packages with BT but the guy on the phone didn't realise that the package I was switching to wasn't similar enough to my existing contract, and it charged me the cancellation fee - I complained and they agreed to take it off again, especially as the router was falling over every 24 hours.
<danfish> My connection is OK - it's my parents which is decidedly rubbish. Plusnet - 'good honest broadband from Yorkshire' my arse!
<dwatkins> bethere are quite good in Doncaster.
<dwatkins> no idea what they're like elsewhere
<mfraz74> I'm on Orange and I'm getting about 12mbps
 * dwatkins fires-up nxclient and tests his bandwidth, knowing full well that the results will be slightly sweked due to nxclient
<danfish> I've not been able to get freenx running on a 'server' with unity
<danfish> though I can see why it won't work, I can't get work arounds to, er, well, work
<daubers> danfish: I'm on plusnet and not had any issues :) More or less get the peak of my l
<dwatkins> danfish: how about if you choose another window manager?
<daubers> "upto"limit
<danfish> daubers: it's probably not plusnet at all, but local factors, including my Dad's DIY telephone extension cabling :)
<danfish> dwatkins: still seems to be reluctant to fire up a connection - moans about permissions. I can use it in 'windowless' mode and fire up an xterm
<dwatkins> danfish: wierd, I didn't have any such problems  - tried creating another user account to test with?
<daubers> danfish: Probably :) The routers plusnet give out are quite poor as well IMHO
<dwatkins> wow, I get 17 Mbps and I'm on ADSL.
<TheAshMan> Anyone help me with bonding 2 NICs? I tried it once and it just killed the connectivity
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBonding
<TheAshMan> Thats the one I followed
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinkAggregation ?
<MartijnVdS> you probably forgot to move the IP to the virtual (bonded) interface
<danfish> dwatkins: I am actually using neatx rather than freenx, so maybe that's an issue - which are you using?
<TheAshMan> MartijnVdS, What do you mean? I put the IP in the bond config options
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: I mean read the LinkAggregation page :)
<TheAshMan> The UbuntuBonding page suggests that I don't need to need to add the bonding to modprobe.d in 10.04+
<MartijnVdS> I have never used it
<TheAshMan> ahh ok
<daubers> TheAshMan: Some bonding methods require the switch to support them too
<oimon> nice answer: http://getsatisfaction.com/alphagov/topics/what_backend_technologies_does_alphagov_use "Â It is all based on open source tools, and we're hoping to release some of our code too." :D
<bigcalm> PHP coders: is there a prefered Twitter API libary? There seem to be a few http://cuth.eu/7tKWNM Requirement is sending writing updates only
<dutchie> good high st shop to buy webcam/microphone?
<BigRedS> Mine came from Tesco
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: any
<bigcalm> dutchie: cheap as chips from super markets. Doubt PC World will rip you off that much
<dutchie> the one i got from tesco sucks
<dutchie> dunno if there is a pc world in the interesting bit of oxford
<MartijnVdS> â¥ http://www.mediamarkt.com/
<popey> dutchie: are you going to buy a cheap/crap one, or one that works?
<dutchie> i would prefer one that works
<dutchie> since i already have a cheap/crap one
<popey> logitech ones are nice
 * bigcalm nods
<popey> and mostly work on non-evil-os
<MartijnVdS> Mac support usually means UVC means Linux support :)
<BigRedS> my logitech one was a tenner from tesco and has worked on everythign I've plugged it into
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/day/?x=-620&y=64&z=-175&zoom=-1
 * popey wonders who built that castle
<popey> its pretty awesome
<MartijnVdS> popey: wow..
<bigcalm> I just found my Pro 5000 (along with a USB rocket launcher)
<bigcalm> popey: that's dedication and cool
<bigcalm> I wonder who started the space invaders game to the north-west of that castle
<MartijnVdS> it looks a bit King's Quest I
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: or the pirate ship
 * bigcalm loads up minecraft to continue with space invaders
<bigcalm> :D
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hiya :D
<MooDoo> it's either quiet, lunch or everyone is at UDS
<MartijnVdS> or all 3
<MooDoo> aye
<popey> Azelphur: hows the mining going?
<seeker> popey: How on earth does someone get that much stone?
<popey> have you seen rogers hole?
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/day/?x=-417&y=64&z=138&zoom=-1
<seeker> The one in the sea near my island?
<popey> that goes all the way down to the bottom
<popey> which would give you a lot of cobble
<popey> also, ali1234 mined out the underneath of the pyramid, there's loads there
<oimon> what do you do once you've made these things?
<oimon> it is purely a construction game or is there a point where you "use" it
<JGJones> Build another project :)
<oimon> i don't think i "get" it
<JGJones> oimon, it's essentially a giant lego game.
<oimon> at least in the sims, you can "live" in your houses
<popey> oimon: do you "get" lego?
<oimon> i'm not deliberately trollling, i'm just wondering if there's something i missed
<popey> it was a serious question
<oimon> popey: i get real lego. i wouldn't get virtual lego
<popey> why?
<oimon> i make airfix models
<popey> thats not lego
<popey> I'm specifically drawing the "it's like lego" comparison
<JGJones> oimon, I thought it was pointless when I first heard of it...a game with no story, no...um...plot. No ending etc. Now I can't stop playing the damn game :)
<oimon> lego is a toy for < 8 yr olds
<popey> rubbish
<popey> i play with lego with my 4 year old son
<popey> and I enjoy it as much as he does
<JamesTait> popey: +1
<oimon> but you wouldn't play with it if 4yr old wasn't there
 * JamesTait does
<JGJones> Me too and my son's now 13 and still play with lego :)
<popey> you're taking being a grumpy old fart to olympic levels
<oimon> i will enjoy playing lego when my son is old enough
<popey> i know adults who play with lego, and they have no children
<JGJones> And I even play with it on my own. the biggest advantage of Minecraft over Lego?
<JamesTait> But I also don't find Minecraft particularly appealing. To each their own.
<popey> I also play minecraft with my kids
<oimon> but i will enjoy doing something with my son.
<popey> all three of us playing together
<oimon> that sounds fine to me
<JGJones> You can't in the middle of night step on a tiny lego block lying around and curse aloud.
<JamesTait> I did love SimCity though, even though I didn't think I would.
<popey> yeah, I loved the original simcity too
<popey> note that minecraft isnt finished yet
<oimon> simcity has a purpose, even if it is to make a massive city and loads of cash
<popey> they _are_ adding 'game' elements to it
<popey> minecraft will too oimon
<oimon> ok..that was my question
<popey> it just doesn't yet
<JamesTait> So if I did actually start playing Minecraft, I may well become hopelessly addicted.
<popey> they added achievements in the most recent update
<popey> JamesTait: this is likely :)
<oimon> believe me when i'm not trolling, i just wanted to know if there's a point
<JamesTait> Which is another reason for me not to play it, because I don't have time for another vice.
<popey> oimon: there is a point, it's fun
<popey> having fun _is_ a point
<JGJones> aye...in popey's server - a railway system is getting build - so it's like building a city now although with strange buildings :)
<popey> heh
<oimon> not having played it, i thuoght the fun would wear off a bit..but i really know very little about the game besides watching some youtune and looking at your map
<popey> glad we dont have a council dictating the planning rules :)
<oimon> can you ride on the railway
<popey> the fun can wear off, as with anythin
<popey> yes
<JGJones> that's true...no planning permission required to blow up a mountain
<oimon> any youtube clips ;)
<popey> I'm currently building a long extension to the railway
<JGJones> oh some people even use the rails system to make a giant rollercoaster...hmm...that's a project to do next...
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?x=-475&y=64&z=1585&zoom=-4
<popey> ^^^ my new leg of rail
<JGJones> I saw that...was wondering who was building that and how they managed to find all that iron to do it :)
<popey> ahem
<JamesTait> Better start shutting my laptop down, I have a session to attend right round the other side of the hotel shortly.
<popey> o/
<JamesTait> I really wish suspend and resume worked on my machine.
<JamesTait> I really wish I had more time to start figuring out why it doesn't.
 * JamesTait waves
<JamesTait> ttfn
<dwatkins> ciao
<dwatkins> I need to allocate enough swap to be able to do that
 * popey wonders what machine he has
<BigRedS> network mangler's put me of wanting suspend to work
<BigRedS> though everything bar nm seems to cope with resuming quite happily
<bigcalm> Any PHP devs in here done any work with the Twitter API?
<BigRedS> my brother has, and I think he's on jabber, so I can forward simple questions at him?
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<bigcalm> What's his choice of library? As there are several on offer
<BigRedS> hah, jabber's become a synonym for 'IM' as far as I'm concerned now :)
<MattJ> :)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I've asked him, but he went 'away' between my checking and you asking, so I might have to get back to you when he's back
<bigcalm> BigRedS: thanks :)
<BigRedS> no probs,
<BigRedS> though I've not got you an answer yet :)
<bigcalm> But thank you for taking the time to ask :)
<dwatkins> has anyone here used netcat to test the stability of an inter-office network connection? I think there are occasional disconnects, and would like to gather information, netcat seems like it might do what I need.
<MattJ> dwatkins: are you sure it's what you want?
<MattJ> If you want to monitor a connection, something like Wireshark would probably be better
<dwatkins> MattJ: not entirely, I've asked them to just run a ping for 10 minutes
<MattJ> Try mtr instead, it will show you at which hop the pings get dropped
<MattJ> and it can run continuously
<dwatkins> thanks MattJ
<jpds> dwatkins: Sounds like someone is hijacking their IP address.
 * popey files bug 781154
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 781154 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "Wishlist: Figlet export ASCIIfied BFD to /usr/share/figlet*.flc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781154
<dwatkins> jpds: aha, good call, I'll make certain they check that - thanks :)
 * AlanBell observes that popey has finally lost it
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I agree. Completely loopy :)
<bigcalm> Because of the lack of <pre>, the double spaces in the M are reduced to single which breaks the rest of the word
<bigcalm> Tut tut
<bigcalm> The program 'figlet' can be found in the following packages:
<bigcalm>  * toilet
<bigcalm>  * figlet
<bigcalm> Unexpected
<Psychobudgie> figlets often have that effect on me
<bigcalm> HEh
<bigcalm> Pyrus (PHP PEAR) - yay or nay?
<Psychobudgie> hay
<bigcalm> Humm, requires PHP 5.3+
<BigRedS> 5.3 is what all the cool kids are using these days, apparently
<bigcalm> 5.3 breaks CakePHP 1.1
<bigcalm> One of our client's project is in CakePHP 1.1 and with no budget or desire to upgrade the framework
<bigcalm> Which is a pain as a dev
<bigcalm> Another client's project uses an old version of moregroupware that only runs on PHP 4
 * bigcalm shudders
<dogmatic69> could anyone let me know if this is in the right direction for a server setup http://oi55.tinypic.com/316x92b.jpg
<bigcalm> If the main database server goes down, what access is there to aws?
<bigcalm> Oh, I see
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Did you work out file sync?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: not done file sync yet, only have 1 loadbalancer to 1 server + master db
<dogmatic69> i just dont know what if the load balancer goes FFFFUUUUUUUU
<dogmatic69> 6x servers sitting round doing nothing
<bigcalm> With round robin dns it would continue to work
<dogmatic69> this is aws elastic load balancer
<bigcalm> Do they say what would happen in that case then?
<bigcalm> There hasn't been any package updates for 10.04.2 for a few days. I wonder what's wrong
<popey> do you not have postfix or exim installed?
<popey> you should get an update for the security issues on those
<bigcalm> apticron is installed on all of my servers. It's been quiet for a while
<bigcalm> There we go
<bigcalm> Did a manual update and postfix wanted updating
<bigcalm> Guess it's just been quiet for a bit
<oimon> !ingo apticron
<oimon> !info apticron
<lubotu3> apticron (source: apticron): Simple tool to mail about pending package updates. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.1.45 (natty), package size 12 kB, installed size 112 kB
<oimon> have updates on my desktop though
<oimon> chromium seems to update every day
<oimon> guys, seen this? http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-save-millions-ict read stuff on el reg about it but the details look promising
<popey> anyone good with ATI cards in Ubuntu?
<oimon> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<oimon> :D
<popey> indeed
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> who knew job centre folks would make you fill out a ton of paper work
<czajkowski> fecking hell 2 days in a row
<popey> Get a job you bum!
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> Do_Not_Go_There
<kazade> popey, I know some ATI stuff..
<popey> kazade: seems the issue was resolved with a reboot :)
<popey> thanks though
<kazade> ah k
<kazade> sorry, I forgot about IRC for a few hours there ;)
<popey> :)
<oimon> czajkowski: has something bad happened? i thought you worked at sirius?
<czajkowski> oimon: I did, nothing bad just contract finished.
<oimon> ah ok
<oimon> what you looking for?
<czajkowski> not sure back to more techincal work or more open source if I can get it, or plan D anything
<popey> Plan F: Wait on tables
<DJones> Doesn't gord need a biscuit & coffee gofer - That could be a full time job
<czajkowski> DJones: gord has cats
<czajkowski> this is a no go
<Azelphur> there, my water cooled monster is up and running properly :D
<popey> Azelphur: hows the mining?
<Azelphur> popey:  havn't started yet, I'm going to start overclocking tonight
<popey> haha
<popey> BTC up to nearly $6USD each today :)
<Azelphur> is that what you have?
<popey> is what?
<Azelphur> 6 USD/day
<popey> I was just quoting the exchange rate
<popey> no, thats how much they're selling for
<Azelphur> wtf, it was $3 like a week ago
<popey> $5.80 or so
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> jeez
<popey> indeed
<popey> and getting ever harder to mine as the days go by :)
<Azelphur> hehe, not so much for me
<Azelphur> I can do 150mhash/sec without overclocking
<oimon> i shouldn't do major software upgrades so late in the day :(
<popey> it gets harder for everyone
<oimon> popey: i have acess to a HPC cluster..can i make a small fortune in producing bitcons?
<popey> if they have GPUs, probably yes
<popey> if you can sell them :)
<oimon> few hundred nodes...usually they are looking for planets but hey
<popey> heh
<oimon> they are looking for a linux cluster admin if anyone is interested
<oimon> i think it's been mentioned on linuxjobs
<Azelphur> popey: my bitcoin doesn't seem to want to connect, haha
<popey> failure
<Azelphur> oh there we go, 1 connection
<Azelphur> 0 connections :(
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> popey: 40C idle, 55.5C running stress --cpu 8
<Azelphur> so 55.5C is my absolute max temp that'll ever happen :D
<Azelphur> oh wait, 55.5 but I don't have the fans at all cranked up. Lets crank the fans up :D
<bigcalm> Only just read about bitcoin. Guess it's not big news yet
<popey> its been mentioned on cnn
<bigcalm> I don't watch cnn
<popey> neither do i
<popey> i was merely indicating it's maintsreamness
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> the more people who get involved the harder it is to generate coins apparently
<bigcalm> Seems little point to it if it doesn't actually work
<popey> define work
 * popey pokes dutchie 
<dutchie> what
<bigcalm> I don't see myself paying my rent with it :)
<dutchie> why am i being poked?
 * Azelphur pokes dutchie
<dutchie> this is worse than facebook
<popey> look up dutchie
<popey> same convo in two channels
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> btc is annoying
<bigcalm> Heh
<dutchie> every day i think "oh far too expensive to buy any now, should have done it months ago"
<dutchie> then the next day they have gained another 50% of value
<dutchie> i suspect i would not do particularly well in the world of stocks and shares
<danfish> dutchie: you're doing a maths degree aren't you? the analytical arms of broking houses love that sort of degree
<bigcalm> Oh I do like "Send to phone" in chrome :)
<bigcalm> Until I get a tablet, reading documentation will be done on my phone
<bigcalm> (I need to rest my back but do research at the same time)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Ubuntu Developer Summit in Budapest - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4429
<popey> Azelphur: you doing pooled mining?
<popey> Azelphur: and what cards did you go for in the end?
<Azelphur> popey: I might do.
<Azelphur> popey: I havn't build a bitcoin miner, this is just my personal PC xD
<popey> sure
<Azelphur> although using my idle time for bitcoin sounds like fun.
<Azelphur> I have a GTX 570 and a 8800GT
<dutchie> danfish: i have no desire whatsoever to go into finance of any type
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262643 holy cow
<danfish> dutchie: good on you :)
<popey> people seriously buy video cards that are 600+notes?
<DJones> Whats the betting you need the nvidia driver for it
<Psychobudgie> I used to comically buy them
<popey> wonder if unity will work better with this GTX460 than my old 7900GT :)
<Psychobudgie> well it works absolutely fine with my 8600gt
<Psychobudgie> when I say it works absolutely fine, I mean from a graphical performance perspective of course
<popey> it's certainly better once you get rid of the stupid delays in alt-tab
<popey> why on earth you'd want to deliberately slow down the act of switching from one app to another, I can't quite fathom
<Psychobudgie> for the same reason many other decisions where made in unity
<Psychobudgie> drugs. stay away from them or if they didn't take drugs, take more of them
<popey> i suspect its a compiz default
<popey> not a concious decision
<Psychobudgie> after much tinkering, playing and tampering I've gone back to gnome 2 and docky
<Psychobudgie> it's superior in every wat
<Psychobudgie> way even
<reaper4334> same, gnome 2 is just much more customisable
<Psychobudgie> gnome 3 was ok but still has many issues that they need to sort out
<popey> you change your tune :)
<popey> < Psychobudgie> in that case put gnome 3 on all the new machines, they'll love you for it
<Psychobudgie> popey, that was in response to him commenting that his staff don't like anything new
<popey> I know :)
<popey> I was pulling you leg.
<Psychobudgie> heh
<Psychobudgie> gnome 3 though is still a million miles better than unity
<reaper4334> I don't know, I'm not sure about the window management and the way that the workspaces now work
<Psychobudgie> workspaces work surprisingly well
<Psychobudgie> window management while not perfect is way better than unity
<Psychobudgie> can atleast find the window I need quickly in gnome 3
<reaper4334> gnome 3's workspace management ran realllly slowly with in onboard graphics 'cause of the "slide" on sort of effect changing workspaces
<reaper4334> so I kinda gave up with it
<reaper4334> that, and I couldn't figure out how to move the close button to the left
<Psychobudgie> reaper4334, did you try using fallback mode
<reaper4334> What's fallback mode? I can't say I looked into it for long
<Psychobudgie> it's for onboard chipsets, etc
<Psychobudgie> less graphic effects
<reaper4334> ah, I didn't know about that. Whereabouts would I find it? I might have to give it another try with that
<Psychobudgie> don't know, never had to use it. It's mentioned on the gnome 3 site though
<reaper4334> fair enough, I'll have a look into that and give it another try then
<reaper4334> Does anyone know how to make xchat automatically identify with nickserv?
<kkitano> you need to ctrl-s
<kkitano> and go to edit
<kkitano> and u put your nickserv password there
<kkitano> u also might want to add "set irc_join_delay 5" in connect command
<kkitano> to stop it trying to join your channels before indentifying
<reaper4334> ctrl-s saves discussion transcript?
<kkitano> go to xchat->network list
<reaper4334> thanks, I tried that.. I'll reconnect and see if it works
<reaper4334> yeah I think that worked, thanks
<kkitano> cool :)
<Azelphur> popey: grr, it takes me like 2 hours to get a bitcoin connection
<Azelphur> wonder what's up with it :s
<Azelphur> still, mining now :D, currently pulling 130k mhash
<kkitano> what is bitcoin mining?
<MartijnVdS> bitcoins
<DJones> kkitano: From the descriptions, bitcoins seem to be internet money backed by fresh air
<Azelphur> damn, conky is annoying me.
<Azelphur> It keeps crashing with "Conky: you don't need that many fonts, sorry."
<Azelphur> what a stupid, annoying error.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: well, you don't need that many fonts! :)
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> except that I do, I have a rather intricate setup I worked on for quite a while :/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 13 years ago: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19981017
<Azelphur> exactly :p
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/Janurary%202011/2011-01-13-041505_3840x1200_scrot.png my conky setup wins :(
<Azelphur> it also needs lots of fonts.
<MartijnVdS> Lots of fonts is usually a sign of doing it wrong :)
<Azelphur> or the sign of using weather and icon fonts.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I think it's actually complaining more because I use the same set of fonts often, rather than different fonts too
<Azelphur> omg, it just crashes randomly with that error, so annoying :/
<Azelphur> it runs for a while then dies :(
<Azelphur> I guess I'll try taking an icon font out and using images to replace it... *sigh*
<Azelphur> if it really comes to it I guess I'll have to do something totally retarded like embedding the static text that conky renders onto my wallpaper.
<Azelphur> yep still errors, embedding text into the wallpaper ftw.
<matthew_> evening all - I'm getting a "504 gateway time-out" on the Ubuntu One Music store (via RhythmBox) for the last couple of evenings - is it actually down?
<popey> Azelphur: I do love your conky setup
<popey> matthew_: no idea, I'd ask in #ubuntuone
<allooba> Hi
<allooba> I have aproblem in connecting with en0
<allooba> can someone help plz
<allooba> hello
<allooba> any one here
<JGJones> Azelphur, that's an awesome conky setup there :)
<allooba> I need help
<allooba> I am facing aproblem with connection
<reaper4334> I've never tried conky, does it go well with unity?
<ali1234> http://alpha.gov.uk/          ........ oh dear
<tugrik> oh dear?
<ali1234> yes, oh dear
<ali1234> they let web designers make it
<ali1234> which means it's impossible to find anything
<ali1234> but it sure does *look* nice
<ali1234> it will look horribly dated in about 6 months of course
<reaper4334> and ironically the first thing it says is "Alpha.gov.uk is an experimental prototype of a single UK Government website. It aims to be as simple as possible..."
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that's why everything is in 16pt font
<ali1234> incase you have bad eyesight and you don't know how to zoom in
<reaper4334> yeahh
<ali1234> of course since everything is in 16pt, there's hardly any room for more than about 10 words on each page
<ali1234> but that's ok, because too many words just confuses people
<MartijnVdS> Haha: "that 6 megabyte video becomes 8 MB for transit because it has to be encoded as 80 column lines that are safe for punch cards" http://blog.mimecast.com/2011/02/why-is-email-so-complicated-part-221-the-legacy-of-punch-cards/
<GreenDance> Hi, I've done a minimal Ubuntu install, but I have no sound, could someone tell me what I need to do to get sound, Thank You
<reaper4334> What sound card do you use?
<GreenDance> I'm not sure, I'm using a laptop
<reaper4334> What laptop is it?
<GreenDance> acer
<reaper4334> Not sure. Have you tried checking to see if any additional drivers need to be installed?
<reaper4334> System Settings -> Additional Drivers
<MartijnVdS> for a sound card?
<GreenDance> pardon?
<GreenDance> is there a command line command I can do?
<MartijnVdS> GreenDance: try alsamixer first -- see if the channels aren't muted
<ocean22> hi guys I recently installed ubuntu 11.04 on my hp pavilion laptop dv6-3150 sa. i am using gnome interface and my compiz is not wokring, can any one help
<ocean22> pls
<ocean22> i have got switchable graphics inside
<ocean22> ati+intel
<MartijnVdS> ocean22: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics
<ocean22> MartijnVdS, thanks, i had a look at that, i think switcheroo is already installed, where can i find it to switch
<popey> reaper4334: cat /proc/asound/cards
<popey> reaper4334: anything listed there?
<reaper4334> popey, did you mean to ask that to GreenDance?
<daubers> Lightning is rubbish
<daubers> I can't seem to find a way to customise the printed calender very much
<popey> oops
 * daubers considers altering the JS to pull a stylesheet from somewhere else
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E06  Look for the Truth - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/05/11/s04e06-look-for-the-truth/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Video of the Week: Chromebooks - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/video-of-the-week-chromebooks/
<czajkowski> popey: fix your url link
<czajkowski> extra S
<DJones> Heh www.pocket-lint.com seems to be having problems, nice error message being displayed http://www.pocket-lint.com/images/im-in-ur-serverz.gif
<DJones> And seems to be fixed very quickly
<popey> czajkowski: can you be slightly more specific?
<czajkowski> S04E06 S Look for the Truth
<czajkowski> the S
<czajkowski> is there a reason for it or am I being thick in reading it ?
<popey> not a problem I can fix
<popey> its the bot, not the site
<popey> possibly a unicode issue
<czajkowski> ah okie dokie
<czajkowski> but not me being thick
<czajkowski> which ya know is also possible
<popey> :)
<Mr-Woof> lo all
<popey> hello
<czajkowski> http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ <<---
<ali1234> you could use - instead of â
<popey> dunno where the â comes from
<popey> i think wordpress is doing it
<mgdm> popey: it does
<popey> ah
<popey> silly wordpress
<mgdm> it also has a function that capitalizes any mention of the word 'Wordpress' properly
<mgdm> on every request, content or template
<popey> oh dear
<ali1234> lol
<czajkowski> mgdm: I wish Ubuntu did on its system
<popey> I had a tweet from a friend today
<popey> "If I ask nicely will you install Ubuntu on my Dads PC?"
<czajkowski> awwwww
<popey> bet it's a manky old heap of junk
<popey> I have asked for specs :)
<Mr-Woof> charge him :)
<Mr-Woof> Does anyone have 11.04 running in a VM using VirtualBox? Does Virtualbox support unity?
<DJones> Mr-Woof: Not sure if this willhelp, but http://www.webupd8.org/2010/12/how-to-test-ubuntu-1104-with-unity-in.html
<Mr-Woof> thanks for the link, I'll have a look
<DJones> There may be something more up-to-date on the web, but that was the first link I found, somebody has posted either that one or something similar fairly recently though
<Mr-Woof> It's just installing now in VirtualBox, I'll have a go and report back with results :-)
<shauno> Mr-Woof: I've heard it works if you use the latest vbox, and install guest additions from ubuntu's repo rather than thru the vbox ui
<Mr-Woof> hmm thanks, It's installed and using the command in the link didn't work. It came up with a 3d hardware error.
<Mr-Woof> I'll see what else I can find
<dogmatic69> anyone by change used awstats with cherokee?
<czajkowski> nn folks
<Mr-Woof> laters
<gord> home :)
<gord> uds was fun!
<ocean22> hi guys i was trying to install simple-ccsm on ubuntu 11.04 (64 bit) i am getting this error meessage simple-ccsm:
<ocean22>  Depends: python-compizconfig but it is not going to be installed
<ocean22>  Depends: compizconfig-settings-manager but it is not going to be installed
<ocean22> can any one help
<gord> do you explicitly need simple-ccsm?
<ocean22> gord, i was trying to install ubuntu control centre. it needs simple cssm to complete its installation
<gord> interesting, not sure what the solution is there
<ocean22> gord, is there any chance that u can help me with some issue of switchable graphics on ubuntu
<ali1234> ubuntu kernel git is down :(
<ali1234> anyone got a mirror?
<ali1234> maybe there'sone on kernel.org
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-12
<hcfd> Anyone interested in helping me hack/socially engineer a competition?
<hcfd> This page has 1,993 or so likes at the minute. I need to be the 2,000th like to win a free beer. Want to help me by liking this page? Please stop at 1,999 likes though! (only like if it says 1,998 or less!). Thanks! https://www.facebook.com/pages/International-Guinness-Blues-on-the-Bay-Festival-Warrenpoint/479706785439?sk=wall
<hcfd> 1 more?
<hcfd> 5 more..?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<AlanBell> morning all
<knightwise> hello AlanBell
<knightwise> how are you this mornin
<AlanBell> head hurts
<AlanBell> extended business meeting at waxy o'connors
<ging> any meeting this early would need to provide awsome breakfast
<ali1234> hmm... awesome breakfast
<AlanBell> heh, no, not at a meeting now, it was last night
 * AlanBell files bug 781509
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 781509 in Ubuntu Website "ubuntu.com does not have a humans.txt file http://www.ubuntu.com/humans.txt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781509
<AlanBell> if someone could confirm that would be great
<DJones> AlanBell: Looks like its been confirmed and changed to an Invalid status
 * AlanBell files bug against sense of humour of the web content team
<AlanBell> oh actually maybe not, marked invalid in ubuntu-website and new in ubuntu-website-content
<ali1234> i'd say their sense of humour is working ok
<DJones> Stupid Win 7 UAC, without switching it off there doesn't seem to be a way of telling the system to always allow an app to run without clicking yes every time
<JamesTait> Mornin' all.
<DJones> Hi JamesTait
<daubers> Morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to ssh into a load balanced cluster
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: you would probably ssh into one machine at a time
<dogmatic69> :(
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: why the sad face?
<dogmatic69> well there is no static ip for it
<dogmatic69> s/it/the machines
<dogmatic69> so that means logging into aws each time to get the public dns
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: dyndns?
<dogmatic69> no pretty .ssh/config
<dogmatic69> dont know if that is the correct solution
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: it probably isn't, but it would allow you to have a hostname which always reflects the IP address on a single interface of a particular machine
<dogmatic69> ye
<dwatkins> there should be simpler ways, like having the hostname of each individual part of the cluster
<dwatkins> What's aws? Is that the cluster management system? Are the actual machines in a subnet of their own?
<dogmatic69> the thing is aws changes the public dns and pvt ip every reboot
 * dwatkins has used Platform and SGI's cluster managers
<dogmatic69> amazon web services
<dwatkins> ahh
<dwatkins> do they have any documentation on this?\
<dwatkins> someone else must have asked the same question
<dogmatic69> loads of unanswered questions in the help
<dwatkins> time to e-mail support
<dogmatic69> Â£100 per minute or something silly :P
<dwatkins> charging for e-mail support would be insane
<dogmatic69> either you have no support, or you have paid support it seems
<dwatkins> ah
<oimon> why do u need to reboot :P
 * oimon checks the uptime on his servers
<dogmatic69> ?
<oimon> dogmatic69: just wondering why you would reboot a server
<dogmatic69> kernel updates?
<dogmatic69> replacing ram
<BigRedS> fscks
<dogmatic69> kernel panic
<dogmatic69> running m$ server
<oimon> if they are public facing then kernel security updates, yep (unless you want to use ksplice), but it's still not that regular
<oimon> a lot of my internal servers haven't seen a reboot in a long time
<BigRedS> I've spoken to people with failover clusters who want nodes rebooted regularly to check that a) failover works and b) they come back up again
<BigRedS> where regularly measn "to a pattern" rather than "frequently"
<oimon> ok
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> New uupc ep is out incase anybody missed it
<oimon> hmm receiving email from a legit company who are using 169.254.x.x on their exchange servers
<jpds> oimon: Cool.
<oimon> the receipient wondered why spamassassin didn't like the mails
<oimon> i wonder how we ever received them in the first place
<diplo> Morning all, I know a few of your are web devs. Anyone got a tool or way of grabbing all id's and class's from a project
<diplo> Basically got a huge amount of legacy CSS that I don't want to pick through line by line and remove old crud
<dutchie> regular expressions :)
<dutchie> "now you have two problems"
<diplo> heh, already got a page open on reg exp
<diplo> It's not my strong point
<diplo> :)
<diplo> That's why I put it out here to see if anyone knew of app that already did it :)
<_serial_> there are some pretty good videos on youtube for regexp
<ali1234> so you want a list of all classes/id defined in the html, and a list of all the classes/ids in the css, and then compute what's in css but not html?
<popey> morning all
<diplo> That would be great ali1234 but I'd be happy with just getting the classes/id's out of the PHP/html code
<ali1234> well is it php or html?
<ali1234> if its php you have pretty much no chance
<brobostigon> morning popey
<diplo> php pages with html code inside, use a framework called codeigniter
<ali1234> diplo: i think you'll have to resort to grep -R class * or similar
<ali1234> if it's php
<diplo> heh, I was thinking that
<diplo> Good thing is once it's done all the codes the same
<diplo> Basically 2-3 other people created some code and used a lot of old CSS and left it in there, this new template has same ID's classes etc everywhere so makes life easier for design
<diplo> Just nobody documented anything
<diplo> :/
<kazade> morning peeps
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> monring kazade
<kazade> popey, just listened to uupc, great show as usual :)
<oimon> i watched a bit of the live stream on my phone during ad-break in a tv programme - video was good, audio a bit quiet - might try installing the android ustream app next time
<popey> thanks kazade
<popey> Yeah, not sure if/when we'll do video again
<popey> we only really did it because I happened to be at home that day so could set it up, and I have decent internet at Studio B, tony has rubbish internet at Studio A.
<BigRedS> That did confuse me - the audio on ustream seemed much more variable in volume than the audio stream
<oimon> tbh i only get to listen to the show on the train - i never watch live streams of stuff normally
 * oimon is grappling with flexlm issues today :(
<popey> the ustream audio was just from the mic on the webcam
<popey> the audio stream came direct from the mixer
<popey> I suspect if we did it again we'd take the audio from the mixer to ustream too
<BigRedS> ahh
<bigcalm> The Google webfonts API is really handy. Does anybody know if you can do the same with your own fonts not listed by google?
<dutchie> yeah, should be
<dutchie> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts/
<bigcalm> Aha, http://www.css3.info/preview/web-fonts-with-font-face/
<Mez> Hmm... we've been sent a memo telling us "Computers, pedestals and desks are not to be used to store food of any nature or the remnants of partially or fully consumed food."
<Mez> Why can't we store food in our computers? It keeps the food warm
<oimon> my colleague found a dead mouse in a server once
<dogmatic69> clearly you need to invest in cooling.. my food would be chilled :)
<Mez> oimon: was someone planning to eat it?
<oimon> my desks are full of food
<MartijnVdS> My hovercraft is full of eels
<oimon> easter eggs drawer1 , sweets and crisps drawer 2
<Mez> we're allowed "snacks" (in the form of crisps, chocolate, and sweets)
<Mez> bananas = NSFW
<MartijnVdS> ...
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: :D
<TheAshMan> Morning
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also fun: http://www.omniglot.com/language/idioms/flyingpigs.php
<TheAshMan> how do i setup a folder that is writeable to everyone in a specific group?
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: mkdir some_directory
<brobostigon> any other security recommendations, for my vps, ontop of things like a properly setup firewall, and denyhosts.?
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: chmod gu+w some_directory
<bigcalm> TheAshMan: chown user:group directory
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: chgrp group directory
<BigRedS> brobostigon: tripwire or similar?
<brobostigon> !info tripwaire
<lubotu3> Package tripwaire does not exist in natty
<brobostigon> !info tripwire
<lubotu3> tripwire (source: tripwire): file and directory integrity checker. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.4.2-9 (natty), package size 3425 kB, installed size 8512 kB
<BigRedS> maybe a chkrootkit/rkhunter 'clean' db and scheduled test
<brobostigon> BigRedS: thank you,
<BigRedS> also, there's a bastion or something package, that suggests changes to enhance security, and goes off and does them if you ask it to
<brobostigon> let me look thatup.
<BigRedS> bastille
<BigRedS> provides InteractiveBastille which does the question asking
<BigRedS> also, debians come with several services you probably don't want, I suspect Ubuntu does too
<TheAshMan> MartijnVdS: Thanks, but my user still can't write to that folder
<TheAshMan> I've added myself to the new group
<oimon> btw re:food in drawers - if you have mice, that's good - it means you don't have rats
<BigRedS> things like telnetd
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: you need to log out and back in if you change groups you're in
<MartijnVdS> (or they won't stick)
<TheAshMan> ahhhhh
 * TheAshMan facepalms
<BigRedS> remove stuff that lets any successful attacker build stuff against the kernel (make, gcc, kernel headers)
<BigRedS> and disallow outbount HTTP for similar reasons if you like
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i did  that, when i setup iptables
<BigRedS> if you really want you can make tmps noexec, but nearly all Bad Things seem to be written in Perl now, which gets around that
<BigRedS> In fact, Debian used to have a reasonable article on securing Debian
<BigRedS> but the last time I saw it it didn't appear to have changed since about etch
<brobostigon> i see, hmm.
<BigRedS> Also, I like unattended-upgrades, but many people don't
<brobostigon> so that automticllyupgrades packages,without myintervention.
<brobostigon> why is tripwire, trying to install exim?
<BigRedS> yeah, but you can blacklist packages. Mysql-server, for example, tends to prefer manual installation
<BigRedS> I've no idea - I've only installed it once or twice, but that'll have been on postfix machines where it was quite happy
<BigRedS> under Debian, though. Not sure if it's packaged differently for Ubuntu
<BigRedS> (but I thought Ubuntu's default mta was postfix anyway?)
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: lsb-invalid-mta - Linux Standard Base sendmail dummy
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bigcalm> Eh?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS:
<bigcalm> :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: big<tab> fial
<TheAshMan> Erm, i seem to have removed myself from being a sudoer
<TheAshMan> How do i put myself back?
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: did you visudo? or remove yourself from the admin group?
<TheAshMan> ahh, dammit, i think i removed myself from the admin group
<MartijnVdS> don't do that :)
<TheAshMan> orly? :P
<TheAshMan> How do I add myself back in?
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: do you still have a root shell open somewhere? or the user editor?
<TheAshMan> nope
<TheAshMan> I'm screwed?
<MartijnVdS> No
<MartijnVdS> but it'll be harder to fix
<ali1234> boot single user mode or use livecd to chroot
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: Restart the machine in "rescue mode", tell it you want a shell (you'll get a menu)
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: then type: adduser yourusername admin
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: then "logout" and everything should work again
<ali1234> um
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: m?
<ali1234> that's gpasswd -A yourusername admin
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: not if you're not in the gui
<ali1234> what gui?
<MartijnVdS> gpasswd sounds like a GTK app
<ali1234> it's not
<MartijnVdS> adduser username groupname is The WayÂ® afaik
<ali1234> it's group passwd
<TheAshMan> is it adduser and not useradd?
<ali1234> it's neither
<ali1234> it's gpasswd
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: IT IS
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: check the manual.
<MartijnVdS>        adduser [options] user group
<TheAshMan> you can use either by the looks of it
<ali1234> adduser, addgroup - add a user or group to the system
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, and 3 lines later you'll see what I pasted
<ali1234> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it's also the recommended way in package maintenance scripts (postinst, etc.) afaik
<ali1234> ah, adduser is a crazy debian perl script
<ali1234> debian sure loves their perl scripts
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Perl
<ali1234> it just calls gpasswd inside
<ali1234> &systemcall($gpasswd, '-a',$existing_user,$existing_group);
<MartijnVdS> ah
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: So we're BOTH RIGHT
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> crazy + perl = debian
<ali1234> indeed
<czajkowski> is there any way to find out if a person has an Amazon wish list page
<czajkowski> without asking them
<ali1234> do you know their amazon username?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you can search by email address or name I think
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/search.html/?type=wishlist
<popey> It's okay czajkowski I'll save you the trouble http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/29FWHGD2GAECA
<czajkowski> popey: :)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: aye trying name
<selinuxium> hi all   o/
<daubers> My amazon wishlist just contains the phrase "I wish amazon didn't use city link"
<BigRedS> Haha
<popey> I dont recall getting anything from city link from amazon
<popey> mind you I get most of my stuff sent to work now, and collect from the post room :)
<BigRedS> I did email someone (firebox I think) requesting that I be removed from their 'offers' mailing list until they stopped using City Link, at which point they were free to put me back on
<gord> i wish they didn't use royal mail :(
<bigcalm> I haven't seen a citylink van around here for a long time
<oimon> i don't understand the problem
<BigRedS> We get a city link van almost every morning, one of our suppliers uses them with good success
<oimon> never have stuff fail to arrive
<oimon> although someone dropped our new printers down the steps the other day
<BigRedS> hah, oops
<oimon> claimed not to speak english when i challenged him
<oimon> to be fair , he probably didn't speak english
<oimon> ubuntu one seems quite broken still :(
<daubers> popey: I've never recieved anything sent by Amazon through city link :)
<daubers> They've sent half a dozen things through them, just never arrived in my hands
<oimon> I also have a guantanamo watch: http://i.imgur.com/xfq2W.jpg
<popey> yay
<gord> oh right, i was out of town for a week and a half, time for steam to re-download half my games because there were updates
<popey> GITMO TIME!
<czajkowski> gord: welcome back
<oimon> popey: i don't plan on going to the US so it's no problem :D
<gord> czajkowski, thanks :)
<oimon> have't been on a plane for ~ 5 years
<gord> time to charge the keyboard. what a crazy world we live in
<selinuxium> Hi peeps, how would you reset what used to be gnome-panel... the Envelope icon is stuck down...
<selinuxium> used to pkill gnome-panel to refresh it from time to time..
<gord> selinuxium, just alt+f2 then type unity
<selinuxium> gord, Cheers! :)
<czajkowski> gord: so how come you only had a half a week at uds
<czajkowski> slacker
<gord> i think canonical is starting to realise that killing the dx team is not advantagous in the long run ;)
<selinuxium> does anyone want to see my bands video? including me doing a Charleston dance to some metal? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7vPfGpkDE8
<millo> hi
<selinuxium> hi millo
<millo> since I've upgraded to 11.04 I've been having weird problems with the WIFI.  I'm pretty new to ubuntu - 1-2 months, but I'm completely stumped on this.  Is the right/best place to ask for help?
<selinuxium> millo, here and if anyone can help they will and #ubuntu
<millo> awesome
<millo> in a nutshell - I can see the list of networks in Network Manager.  I can select it, but it just tries to connect (little wifi connecting icon is animating), then after about 2 minutes I just get the error message "Wireless Network Disconnected"
<millo> I've checked WPA Personal password many times - defo right one, and it just happened randomly.
<BigRedS> millo: try sudo /etc/init.d/network-manager restart
<millo> Night before it was working, now it's not (this was about a week ago, first chance I've had to connect using ethernet)
<BigRedS> I find that about nine times in ten that fixes that
<millo> ok, sec
<oimon> popey:  something i didn't notice before: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060630/060630_binLaden_vmed.widec.jpg guess who's wearing the watch?
<ali1234> brix
<selinuxium> millo also check to see if any bugs have been raised against your WiFi card..
<BigRedS> selinuxium: "my bands video" = "someone videod us at the barfly" ? :)
<millo> that's one of my problems, sounds really stupid - I can't figure out what my wifi card is - I've looked around, but I can't seem to find it anywhere
<millo> I'm using Toshiba Satellite A-500
<selinuxium> Anybody here been playing Angry Birds in Chrome Browser... :) It is cool!
<BigRedS> it crashed my firefox :(
<millo> and, that NM restart didn't work - still not connecting
<selinuxium> BigRedS, fine in Chrome..
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm not enthused enough by the game to start up chrome to play it there :)
<selinuxium> millo in a terminal type   lspci    Can you see your wireless card therE?
<BigRedS> millo: if you run    lspci    in a terminal, it'll list a bunch of your hardware
<BigRedS> including a wireless chipset
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Beat ya!
<BigRedS> haha, you distracted me with that chrome comment! :)
<millo> just restarted lappy as well - still not connecting via wifi
<selinuxium> BigRedS, was a fun gig at the Barfly... :)
<BigRedS> mm, It's one of the things I miss about not being in London any more, I used to live ~5mins from Camden
<selinuxium> Camden = FUN x 1000
<selinuxium> I do like it there..
<BigRedS> though, if I'm honest, I did end up getting a bit bored of live music :) When it's on your doorstep, and *every night* there's someone wanting to borrow some floor post gig, so you inevitably go to the gig...
<selinuxium> lol
<selinuxium> Us musicians are a romany bunch...
<millo> is there anything else I can try?  my only option I can think of is to format, and I've already had to do that twice since I started using Ubuntu - would rather avoid it if possible..
<selinuxium> have you done an   lspci?
<millo> erm... i'll say no - as I'm VERY new to anything ubuntu/linuxy...
<millo> I take it I just type sudo lspci in terminal?
<selinuxium> no need for sudo..
<selinuxium> :)
<millo> cool, one moment - thanks btw - I really appreciate the help, I've browsed so many different forum threads on iphone and got nowhere - this was pretty much last resort
<millo> 14:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8191SEvB Wireless LAN Controller (rev 10)
<millo> is that what I'd be looking for?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] UK OpenERP Partner Community - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/12/uk-openerp-partner-community/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=uk-openerp-partner-community
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] QA Community Coordinator: Inquire Within - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/12/qa-community-coordinator-inquire-within/
<millo> also - whenever I try to download stuff with update manager - it comes up with errors regards to "check internet connection"
<millo> just done a google search for RTL8191SEvB +ubuntu and a thread mentioned something regarding WEP acceleration???
<millo> bare in mind I've never had a problem with wifi - then I just turned on laptop one evening and it's not connected since.
<millo> (sorry - i know it must be irritating for people to come on with these random problems and seem clueless)
<awilkins> I found the straw that broke the back of Unity for me...
<awilkins> Whenever you switch workspaces, Eclipse locks your edit windows.
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<awilkins> I'm not saying it's a Unity issue. But GNOME doesn't do it (except occasionally when the screensaver kicks in). So GNOME it is....
<awilkins> The Java editor goes into read-only mode - the tab greys out, you can't edit the content.
<ali1234> why does it do that?
<ali1234> i mean is there any situation where you want it to do that?
<awilkins> ali1234, When your file is read-only, I suppose, and you don't want the appearance of editing it
<ali1234> but changing workspace can't make file read only
<awilkins> I know this... neither does the screensaver kicking in
<ali1234> i'm so glad i don't have to use eclipse
<awilkins> So obv. a bug with how Eclipse interacts with the desktop or X or something
<awilkins> Or GTK
<awilkins> But since I can't stop using Eclipse, I have stopped using Unity (at least for Java development...)
<daubers> awilkins, I can't reproduce that... got some steps?
<daubers> awilkins, However...... I have known eclipse to stop you being able to type in a window at random points in the past. Used to have to go into terminal or gedit or somesuch and type in some grabage, go back to eclipse and all would be well
<TheAshMan> daubers: lol!!! City-Link 4tl
<selinuxium> MiLLo, Sorry, been running around... .
<awilkins> daubers, I was able to reproduce it by having the Eclipse window on the bottom-right workspace, and moving to another workspace (containing an rdesktop instance) using the ctrl-alt-UP / DOWN combo
<MiLLo> no problem - I've now managed to break my cursor
<MiLLo> it's not working.
<selinuxium> can you not wire the laptop in to get updates in case a fix is already available? I will check the other stuff.
<MiLLo> I swear I'm normally considered one of the best around on computers in my social circle..
<MiLLo> I have done.  but it's saying unable to get updates - no internet connection
<MiLLo> which is blatantly wrong..
<selinuxium> Right click the connection icon and check the connection info..
<selinuxium> MiLLo, ^^
<daubers> awilkins, Can't reproduce it :(
<daubers> awilkins, Though I haven't got an rdesktop instance running
<MiLLo> erm.. ok, lemme just try get cursor working so i can actually right click on things
<selinuxium> k
<millo> ok, I've spammed it throughout boot - I can't see any grub menu for me to select anything
<Laney> fellas
<popey> hello
<selinuxium> hiya
<brobostigon> hey Laney
<selinuxium> millo, ??? Sorry, I have no idea what you are up to know.. How did you lose your cursor?
<millo> no idea, I rebooted and cursor now works
<millo> :D
<selinuxium> ok cool
<millo> right now - just trying to get wifi to work
<andylockran> hey guys
<selinuxium> try   rmmod r8192se_pci
<exobuzz> hi
<selinuxium> then  modprobe r8192se_pci hwwep=0
<andylockran> I could do with some help in diagnosing a network connectivity problem.
<selinuxium> millo, ^^^
<andylockran> When downloading large files/watching youtube videos.. the connection just stops.
<millo> is that in terminal?
<selinuxium> andylockran, I have that too...
<selinuxium> millo, yup
<andylockran> selinuxium: you on VM ?
<selinuxium> andylockran, nope
<andylockran> I phoned them up - and they came up with silly suggestions like emptying the browser cache.
<millo> error
<millo> removing is not permitted
<selinuxium> sudo
<andylockran> When i told him I wasn't using a browser he seemed very confused :d
<millo> i take it's its a sudo?
<andylockran> (wget)
<millo> ok cool
<selinuxium> andylockran, didnt realise you could wget a youtube...
<andylockran> selinuxium: my boss has suggested running something against a port.
<millo> millo@millo:~$ rmmod r8192se_pci
<millo> ERROR: Removing 'r8192se_pci': Operation not permitted
<millo> millo@millo:~$ sudo rmmod r8192se_pci
<millo> [sudo] password for millo:
<millo> millo@millo:~$ sudo rmmod r8192se_pci hwwep=0
<millo> ERROR: Module r8192se_pci does not exist in /proc/modules
<andylockran> selinuxium: wget was in relation to the large files...
<millo> ERROR: Module hwwep=0 does not exist in /proc/modules
<millo> millo@millo:~$
<andylockran> !pastebin | millo
<lubotu3> millo: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<popey> that worked
<millo> sorry - new to this
<popey> the middle one removed it the third one couldn't because the second one removed it
<andylockran> millo: no problem. :)
<millo> did that paste? using pastebin?
<selinuxium> millo, popey was talking to you... :)
<millo> oh.. right :P
<selinuxium> it worked..
<selinuxium> now try your wifi connection...
<millo> there's nothing about wifi in NM
<millo> shall I try using the laptop switch?
<Laney> popey: can you tell me what precipitated http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/ubuntu-codeofconduct/trunk/revision/14 ?
<Laney> 'It applies in all of our interactions with other people'
<selinuxium> millo, nope.. Sorry, trying to unravel someone elses thread... the third command wouldn't work because you had removed the module..
<millo> sigh..  I can't see any wireless networks in NM now.  I've just tried flicking the WIFI switch on my laptop - no go.
<millo> soooo... now what do I do?  I'm open for anything at this point to fix it.
<selinuxium> millo, instead of this , can you   sudo /etc/modprobe.d/realtek.conf      then plac ethefolowing in it..    options r8192se_pci hwwep=0
<millo> sec
<millo> "command not found"
<selinuxium> doh.
<popey> Laney: interesting isnt it :)
<selinuxium> actually...
<millo> that a me doh? or a you doh?
<selinuxium> me doh!
<Laney> you could say 'interesting'
<popey> you could.
<popey> I would imagine there are other things one could say
<Laney> i can think of some other words :-)
<selinuxium> gksu gedit /etc/modprobe.d/realtek.conf
<oimon> millo: sudo vi /etc/modprobe.d/realtek.conf
<popey> mdz wrote that ammendment
<millo> which one - selinuxium or oimon?
<oimon> oimon: selinuxium
<Laney> the CC maintains the document to which it was merged
<selinuxium> oimon, vi may be a bit tricky for millo
<Laney> presumably they assent
<oimon> selinuxium: yep i agree
<millo> ok, sec
<popey> Laney: yes
<millo> ok it's loaded a text box - so I just copy from "options" to "hwwep=0" and save it?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I detect caginess
<selinuxium> mill
<selinuxium> millo, it should of asked you for your password?
<millo> nope?
<selinuxium> one mo...
<millo> although I still have terminal open from the last time I used sudo
<selinuxium> the box is asking for your password..
<GreenDance> Hi
<selinuxium> millo, ^^
<millo> it's just a text editor window?
<GreenDance> I've done  a minimal ubuntu install but I have no sound, I've installed xfce4-mixer and unmuted sound and turned it up, but still no sound, can anyone  help thanks.
<selinuxium> oh, you must of already been sudoed up
<popey> Laney: your cageysense is tingling huh?
<millo> yeah, think that's the case
<selinuxium> millo, then put      options r8192se_pci hwwep=0    in the text and save
<millo> done
<Laney> i'm concerned about scope creep is all
<popey> I can understand that.
<selinuxium> millo, restart PC and hope... :)
<millo> :P
<popey> we did discuss the "does it apply to me and my friends in the pub"
<millo> back in 2 minutes with tears in my eyes.
<selinuxium> millo, fingers X'd
<millo> from joy or despair.. we'll just have to wait and see :P
<GreenDance> i've no sound :(
<Laney> hence trying to figure out why the change was made
<oimon> GreenDance: i usually check alsamixer if i've got no sound
<popey> Laney: grab daniel?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> sitting next to him ;-)
<popey> :)
<popey> cuddle him from me please
<popey>  _   _ _   ____              _      _
<popey> | | | (_) |  _ \  __ _ _ __ (_) ___| |
<popey> | |_| | | | | | |/ _` | '_ \| |/ _ \ |
<popey> |  _  | | | |_| | (_| | | | | |  __/ |
<popey> |_| |_|_| |____/ \__,_|_| |_|_|\___|_|
<popey>                                       
<oimon> ugh
<Laney> message passed
<andylockran> selinuxium: I'm trying to troubleshoot our problem..
<millo> erm...
<millo> :(
<millo> not worked
<millo> same issue
<selinuxium> bum...
<millo> click my network, it tries to connect, times out and little box pops up saying "Wireless Network Disconnected"
<selinuxium> millo, really sorry, but I have to go and do some work... Hopefully somebody else coudl help you...
<millo> no problem selinuxium - appreciate the help
<popey> millo: probably best asking in #ubuntu
<selinuxium> before I dash, run     sudo rm /etc/modprobe.d/realtek.conf  to remove the file we created..
<millo> I started to - but then apart from one guy, who went - no one else tried.
<millo> ok cool
<millo> thanks sel
<selinuxium> millo, popey is right... many more people there to help..
<selinuxium> millo, sometime you have to try a few times to get some help... not every couple of minutes mind... tends to wind peeps up..
<millo> yeah - I can get that :P
<selinuxium> millo, good luck! :)
<millo> thanks - and thanks for the help!
<selinuxium> millo, np. wish I had more time... :)
<millo> I think I may be resigned for formatting (again) anyway!
<selinuxium> millo, formatting wil not resolve the issue..
<iclebyte_work>  if i rebuilt a slave name server, then obviously it has a new rndc.key file - how do I authorize this key on the master nameserver?
<millo> had a feeling it wouldn't when I tried to boot from livecd and same issue - I was really hoping it would :P  I'll ask on #ubuntu see what ideas they have.
<popey> millo: http://askubuntu.com/ is a good alternative
<oimon> +1 askubuntu or ubuntuforums is good cos a hardware specific problem can be helpful for the next guy with the same issue
<DJones> Dammed chrome.angrybirds.com Where did my lunch hour go
<BigRedS> hm. anyone know of a free alternative to Zend guard?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Network Problem - http://zrmt.com/2011/05/12/network-problem/
 * bigcalm streches
<bigcalm> Fell asleep on the sofa again :S
<Pendulum> bigcalm: lucky
<bigcalm> Pendulum: jet lag?
<Pendulum> bigcalm: jet lag, plus insomnia my last night in the UK. So about 6 hours of sleep in the last 55
<bigcalm> Poop
<czajkowski> bigcalm: cocodmol knocks one out if you're not used to it
<Pendulum> czajkowski: it does?
<czajkowski> yeah seemingly so
<czajkowski> has no effect on me
<DJones> czajkowski: Pendulum That knocks my wife out, but doesn't affect me
<Pendulum> has no effect on me, either
<czajkowski> I take a highish dose
<Pendulum> that said, most people say marinol/sativex/cannabis knocks them out and/or makes them high and I don't get either of those effects either
<Pendulum> ;-)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: haven't taken any today. Maybe yesterday just weakened me
<gord> nothing will make me sleep on a plane, nothing.
<MartijnVdS> gord: Valium, in vast quantities.
<MartijnVdS> gord: It will make you sleep on a plane.
<DJones> gord: Not even a two hour Microsoft advert on the screen
<TheAshMan> ive created a folder with group permissions but nothing in that folder inherits the group writable permission
<dogmatic69> reading about using 'ssh-add ~/.ssh/id_rsa' to not have to type the pw all the time, is this a good idea?
<BigRedS> it's normally advised that you use passphrases on the keys
<BigRedS> but passphraseless key auth is probably still better than just password
<dogmatic69> ?
<BigRedS> that command is to add a key, for key-based SSH auth
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: it is a good idea
<BigRedS> rather than password (or 'keyboard-interactive')
<AlanBell> BigRedS: you can unlock it for the session
<AlanBell> or unlock it every time
<dogmatic69> i want to just log in once and then not again till i log out / exit the server
<dogmatic69> this is the article i was reading http://bashcurescancer.com/setting_up_ssh_keys_for_access_without_password.html
<dogmatic69> my id_rsa has a pw on it
<awilkins> dogmatic69, That won't stop you from having to use a password for sudo prompts, etc
<dogmatic69> sudo is ok
<awilkins> dogmatic69, But it does mean that you can unlock your key once and have as many ssh sessions connect as you like
<dogmatic69> its just ssh all the time
<awilkins> It's also more secure than password
<awilkins> Many ssh cracker bots will just give up if your SSH server is configured to refuse keyboard-interactive auth
<dogmatic69> well... i think there is another piece to the puzzle... this is not for my desktop
<dogmatic69> i got a dev server that has rsa keys to all sorts of servers
<dogmatic69> can only access them from that one dev server
<Ng> ok so what's like Synergy, but works?
<bigcalm> Works for me
<Ng> I keep getting stuck modifiers :/
<Ng> and since I live in terminals, having a Ctrl be invisibly stuck when I flick onto another monitor and start typing, can be pretty disasterous :(
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> Howdy all.
<brobostigon> afternoonings andylockran :)
<diplo> andylockran, ref your blog post, you don't run a proxy on your router do you ? We had a similair issue at my last place and it was the proxy breaking the downloads.
<MiLLo> hi.. are there any wifi geniuses here?
<andylockran> diplo: no I don't - good call though
<MiLLo> in a nutshell - I can see the list of networks in Network Manager.  I can select it, but it just tries to connect (little wifi connecting icon is animating), then after about 2 minutes I just get the error message "Wireless Network Disconnected"
<andylockran> I've bypassed the router and still get the same problem - but my ISP claim that there are no errors on the connection, and that they're not 'traffic shaping' my connection.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know what this means in JQuery? $('#'+cont).html(data); (I'm especially interested in the $('#'+cont) bit...
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: Just asked my programmer..
<kazade> TheOpenSourcerer, document.getElementById('#' + some_variable);
<kazade> I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah but what does the '#' represent?
<kazade> there must be an element on the page with id="#something" I assume
<TheOpenSourcerer> # is for any ID.
<TheOpenSourcerer> normally you'd do $('#mydiv')
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - Thanks kazade the penny has just dropped I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - cont is a (badly named) variable so the end result is $('#contsmeaning')
<kazade> TheOpenSourcerer, yeah, that's what I figured :)
<KrisDouglas> Hello everyone, I have a tape drive in one of the old servers here, basically I want to try and rip the contents of this windows backup. The server is currently booting ubuntu and the backup is from server 2k3. I am assuming I can use tar to extract the contents?
<daubers> andylockran, Tried using the thing that is the opposite of wireshark to see if it's a packets/second issue on the router?
<andylockran> daubers: nope, not heard of that?
<daubers> andylockran, Ostinato I think.... instead of watching for packets, it generates them
<daubers> andylockran, I reckon my belkin has an issue that causes it to crash when it's buffer is full, as I can replicate it with ostinato and has similar issues to what you describe
<andylockran> how daubers ooh, interesting
<andylockran> taking a look at ostinato
<andylockran> looks annoying :)
 * JamesTait kicks the laptop
<MiLLo> guys i still need help..  problem is:  I can see the list of networks in Network Manager.  I can select it, but it just tries to connect (little wifi connecting icon is animating), then after about 2 minutes I just get the error message "Wireless Network Disconnected".  note - i never used to have a problem with it - i just turned off laptop one day, turned on the next and it stopped working completely.
<czajkowski> danfish: when we doing rugby match and pub again
<andylockran> czajkowski: last game of the season Worcs v Pirates :)
<andylockran> czajkowski: are you off to the #London7s?
<czajkowski> not heard about them
<andylockran> next weekend
<andylockran> http://www.irbsevens.com/destination/edition=8/index.html
<gord> it seems that laptop makers are now using HD to mean screen size, so you get listings that say 15" HD.... stop screwing with our heads!
<czajkowski> ahhh welcome back to gord rantings
<czajkowski> how I missed theee
<gord> its not my fault i'm thick >:(
<dutchie> woo, worcs
<bigcalm> dutchie: for long?
<czajkowski> gord: tea jammy dodgers and cats yeah :)
<dutchie> bigcalm: no, just andylockran mentioning the rugby stadium i can hear from home on match days
 * danfish wakes up
<dutchie> still in ox until beginning of july
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Worcester used to have a really good team
<gord> phew, the ebuyer next day delivery expired, now i have an entire weekend to make a decision instead of rushing
<danfish> czajkowski: I'll look up some fixtures and see what looks good - can't do the finals as already going to watch :D
<danfish> there must be some world cup warm ups happening soon
<danfish> sorry - warm-ups (as opposed to a ups that's running hot!)
<czajkowski> danfish: something less controversial otherwise TheOpenSourcerer may have another heart attack and sulk
<czajkowski> and we need to find a quietish pub that we can book tables
<andylockran> what was controversial last time?
<andylockran> the silly welsh throw in?
<czajkowski> andylockran: England V Ireland
<czajkowski> and Ireland thrashing England and TheOpenSourcerer not a happy chappy :)
<gord> thinkpad edge is looking pretty tempting, anyone had any experience? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/250005
<andylockran> czajkowski: bah, shouldn't have asked :)
 * czajkowski grins 
<andylockran> czajkowski: Chamionship though?
<andylockran> :)
<czajkowski> andylockran: not grand slam though, contrary to their add they had done before hand and got leaked
<danfish> czajkowski: was TheOpenSourcerer *very* upset?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah,
<czajkowski> VERY
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm fine now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was a tad annoyed for a day or two.
<czajkowski> :)
<danfish> everyone going to oggcamp?
<czajkowski> ME
<brobostigon> o/
<danfish> yeah
<popey> o/
<jpds> I prefer flac.
<popey> flaccamp
<danfish> I have a "full pass" for the Saturday for the better half and a "if you have to" for the Sunday :)
<popey> :)
<davmor2_> jpds: come over 'ere I'll give you as much flac and grief as you can handle
<davmor2_> hey gord good trip home?
 * czajkowski prods davmor2_ 
<gord> davmor2_, nope! it was horrible! but i'm home - thats all that matters :D
<danfish> davmor2_: shhh! he's got jetlag
<gord> danfish, how far away do you think budapest is? o_O
<davmor2_> czajkowski: what?
<czajkowski> gord: minus a tshirt
<czajkowski> davmor2_: just saying hi darling
<gord> davmor2_, you coming to dublin?
 * davmor2_ runs off screaming
<danfish> gord: not far geographically, but time wise...10 or so years behind ;)
<davmor2_> gord: no idea at this point that's mostly for platform if I recall though
<czajkowski> davmor2_: thought ti was launchpad sprint
<gord> if you don't know by now then i would guess not :( dang, will have to get someone to pick me up a tshirt
<davmor2_> danfish: it ain't 10 years behind at all
<gord> czajkowski, platform rally. i think we are calling it a rally now
<davmor2_> gord: marathons is what they should be called
<czajkowski> gord: so no more sprinting and more rallying
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> odd balls
<davmor2_> czajkowski: that from you! Pot kettle black :P
 * davmor2_ gives czajkowski a hug
<czajkowski> davmor2_: see am somewhat back
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> at least to kicking your ass
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2_> ha, your only feeling brave cause I'm miles away :P
<czajkowski> davmor2_: darling I'm the one to fear remember
<gord> the thinkpad X220 looks very cool. 8 hours battery life is useful
<davmor2_> gord: be nice to know if that is the battery length with Ubuntu on :)
<gord> davmor2_, in my experience? half it :(
<davmor2_> haha
<gord> loved taking my little arm netbook around uds though, great conference netbook
<gord> i'm starting to realise i have no idea where to buy laptops from, anyone have recommendations for places that do customisations and don't suck?
<czajkowski> gord: system 76 ?
<gord> oh wow, i click on to their page and they offer me an ubuntu laptop, neat
<gord> oh its got unity on it Â¬_Â¬
<gord> oh and the exchange rate isn't too bad...
<davmor2_> gord: but it is like 1.2 million for import right ;)
<gord> could always get one delivered to a US person who brings it to dublin and then... forgets... to take it home
<gord> these things happen
<davmor2_> gord: haha
<MiLLo> but does anyone know how to set up dualscreens with ubuntu - it's never worked for me.  I want to set it up so that it's running two screens, through the HDMI cable, and they're "separate" - not mirror screens.
<gord> MiLLo, whats your graphics card?
<MiLLo> erm
<MiLLo> how can i find out@?
<MiLLo> since moving to ubuntu i'm not sure
<MiLLo> Graphics chipset 	ATi Mobility Radeon HD 4570
<MiLLo> weirdly i'm sure I have Nvidia running on this, not ATI
<MiLLo> but this was an autodownloaded driver from ubuntu
<gord> install the package mesa-utils and run "glxinfo | grep Vendor"
<gord> that'll tell you
<czajkowski> yawns
<MiLLo> that command didn't work gord
<gord> are you sure?
<MiLLo> when i run it - just brings up the next line
<MiLLo> as if i'd not done anything
<gord> then just glxinfo
<MiLLo> GeForce GT 230M/PCI/SSE2
<MiLLo> I thought it was a geforce - which is why I was surprised it said ATI when I searched for my Laptop model :s
<gord> okay, then go to system -> administration -> Nvidia Settings (might be called something different, but the icon has an nvidia logo)
<MiLLo> how do i go to system on 11.04?
<gord> from there in the monitors info you can configure multi-monitor. you'll need the other monitor attached first for it to detect it
<MiLLo> it's all gone
<gord> oh right sorry, this netbook is on 10.10
<MiLLo> yeah - i think i can find nvdia
<gord> just press the super/windows key and type nvidia
<MiLLo> bare with me one moment - thanks btw
<MiLLo> i've found nvidia server settings
<MiLLo> but it means nothnig to me (I'm very new to ubuntu)
<gord> that'll be it
<gord> you'll have a thing for display.monitors there
<MiLLo> right
<MiLLo> i've detecetd my tv
<MiLLo> says i need to asve to config file
<MiLLo> i do that - and it says error, unable to parse config file
<MiLLo> given me a save as box
<gord> thats fine
<MiLLo> save?
<gord> yeah
<MiLLo> now i need to restart xserver
<gord> just restart your machine
<MiLLo> thanks - I'll hopefully be back soon very happy :D
<Azelphur> Has anyone tried displayport on ATI cards with >2 monitors?
<Azelphur> or does anyone know anyone who has
<AlanBell> issyl0: o/
<issyl0> AlanBell: Hey!
<AlanBell> do you have anything for the jumble sale?
<issyl0> AlanBell: Oh, that.  No - I hadn't planned to get involved in that.
<AlanBell> ok, just wondered if you wanted any help pitching anything
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] LightDM, or: an examination of a misunderstanding of the problem - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136274.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  Worth the wait - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/05/12/oggcamp-11-worth-the-wait/
<Azelphur> does anyone know if it costs lots of import money if I buy something from a shop in NL and have it shipped here?
<MiLLo> hmm, that sort of worked gord.
<MiLLo> it created a second screen - but it won't let me open stuff onto it - or drag across...
<MiLLo> like I want to use it to watch films on my TV
<MiLLo> it created a second screen - but it won't let me open stuff onto it - or drag across... like i want to use it to watch stuff on my tv
<gord> MiLLo, back in the settings set it to use twinview rather than separate x screens
<MiLLo> won't that mean it shows the same screen on both?
<MiLLo> ah
<MiLLo> no
<MiLLo> just read up on it
<gord> it just has a silly name ;)
<gord> it can do that though, if you want. but you don't
<MiLLo> there is one issue i've always had with this
<MiLLo> and it stems back from windows
<MiLLo> my tv is 1080p - it's a 42" LED 3d tv - so it's full hd.  yet whenever I set it to 1080p resolution from dualscreen - the resolution seems "oversized" like it's bigger than the tv can cope with?
<MiLLo> tried on 4-5 different tv's and it's the same problem
<gord> honestly? your tv isn't 1080p
<gord> i'v seen this a lot, they can take a 1080p signal, but they just don't have enough physical pixels
<MiLLo> is that the case for all TV's then?
<gord> not all, but a hell of a lot
<MiLLo> sigh..  I was so hoping this TV would be able to take it!
<gord> you *might* be able to play with settings on your tv to resize the 1080p image to whatever resolution your monitor is, on one of my tv's i had to find out its actual resolution and set a custom modeline and horrible stuff like that
<MiLLo> i think i did that before on windows - manually shrank it slightly
<MiLLo> anything i played looked HORRIBLE
<MiLLo> considering I'm losing like a real life centimetre top and bottom - it's not worth it
<gord> yup, if your playing video. just leave it alone, hopefully you won't notice because overscan is factored in to the video editing
<MiLLo> here's a question - best video player for ubuntu?
<MiLLo> especially for both MKV's and subtitles
<MiLLo> i'm trying ubuntu vlc
<gord> totem, the default, will handle MKV's and subtitles just fine
<MiLLo> and it's disappointing compared to the windows version - am I best just using WINE VLC?
<gord> no, the windows and ubuntu versions of vlc are the same
<MiLLo> ? not functionally
<MiLLo> i can't slow down/speed up subtitles on ubuntuvlc
<gord> yeah you can
<MiLLo> whereas the windows one I could do all of that easily
<gord> its the same source code just compiled for ubuntu
<MiLLo> ??? really?  do you have any idea how?
<gord> look in the options
<kvarley> MiLLo: The most powerful player I find is mplayer - you may want to try umplayer or smplayer for a nice GUI. VLC will be the easiest for you to use - you may want to install it from their PPA
<MiLLo> ah
<MiLLo> ooops
<MiLLo> want to laugh?  I have been running totem thinking it's vlc
<gord> i personally use XBMC for outputing video to my tv
 * MiLLo blushes
<gord> yeah thats... quite a difference
<MiLLo> :(
<MiLLo> I'm very new, still learning how to set up stuff..  thought I'd made it default!!!
<MiLLo> XBMC any good?
<MiLLo> like I say - I like to configure subtitles and play MKV's more than anything else
<gord> i like it, its for home theatres though really
<MiLLo> how're you defining home theatre?
<gord> it has a 10ft gui
<MiLLo> ooooook :P
<MiLLo> i just typed xbmc into ubuntu software thingy
<gord> its not in there, you have to install a ppa :(
<MiLLo> ah
<MiLLo> google i take it?
<gord> eh? no no, just get the ppa from launchpad
<MiLLo> launchpad?
<gord> http://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc i think
<MiLLo> yeah... thanks :D
<MiLLo> it's telling me to add software sources
<MiLLo> i've little idea how to do this
<MiLLo> is using the terminal version on XBMC website likely to be easier?
<gord> no
<kvarley> MiLLo: To add software sources open Terminal and type "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:team-xbmc/ppa && sudo apt-get update" (minus quotes)
<MiLLo> thanks!
<MiLLo> i think it's installing now
<kvarley> MiLLo: That won't install xmbc, just add the sources. Afterwards you will have to install it
<MiLLo> apt-get install xbmc ??
<kvarley> MiLLo: "sudo apt-get install xmbc"
<MiLLo> yeah
<kvarley> MiLLo: You beat me to it
<MiLLo> i foret the sudo
<MiLLo> i'm SLOWLY getting the hang of terminal
<kvarley> MiLLo: You'll be able to view the stuff available from that PPA in your Ubuntu Software Centre too
<MiLLo> awesome
<MiLLo> we needs an idiots guide to ubuntu
<MiLLo> :D
<kvarley> MiLLo: Not an idiots guide, I wouldn't call anybody an idiot lol. Learning a new OS takes time, people seem to forget that when coming from another one
<MiLLo> haha
<MiLLo> how long have you guys been using ubuntu?
<jibadeeha> MiLLo, about 2 years here .. but been using Linux since Slackware 2.1
<MiLLo> nice... i quite like it, but just the occasional thing on it bugs me
<kvarley> MiLLo: 6 years I think, 4 as my main OS.
<MiLLo> ok
<jibadeeha> MiLLo, yeah there a few things that bug me but then again there is more that bugs me about Windows and other Linux distros i've used ... Ubuntu fairs well for me
<MiLLo> terminal has finished installing xbmc
<MiLLo> but i can't see it in my software list when i press super/windows key
<kvarley> MiLLo: type in "xmbc" and hit enter and it should load
<MiLLo> command not found
<MiLLo> =/
<MiLLo> karma for ignoring gord and using terminal :D
<MiLLo> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<MiLLo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/606607/
<MiLLo> that mean anything to anyone?
<MiLLo> far as i can understand (not much) the sources list are down or something?  #404 error?
<czajkowski> whoo eurovision time
<MiLLo> ant ideas kvarley / jibadeeha?
<MiLLo> *any
<ali1234> badram :(
<gord> MiLLo, find the team-xbmc file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ - open it and change instances of natty to maverick
<MiLLo> including the 11.04 number to 10.10?
<gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13374048 the irony is delicious
<gord> MiLLo, no, just the natty to maverick bit
<MiLLo> it won't let me edit/save it
<MiLLo> i'm not sure how to open via terminal /open as sudo through the actual file browser :(
<gord> its a root owned file, you need to open it with root privilages. just get to the directory in the terminal, then sudo gedit filename
<MiLLo> ah
<MiLLo> thanks :D
<MiLLo> ok that's done
<MiLLo> I've saved as -maverick as well
<MiLLo> do I delete the original natty one?
<gord> if you like
<MiLLo> now what do i do?
<gord> update
<MiLLo> kk thnakds#
<MiLLo> or even thanks...
<MiLLo> ah, starting to get this now
<ali1234> hmm how does sergey expect developers to write code using chromeos?
<ali1234> after all i thought that's what google mainly does
<ali1234> reckon they've got an implementation of my etherpad/git ide mashup?
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-496000-189000/page/20 I remember being in Mr Brown's class :)
<ali1234> hmm they didn't recode the bizarre 3d user interface in flash and/or webgl?
<ali1234> well they managed to make it just as difficult to use as the original at least :/
<AlanBell> ali1234: look at the screen! http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-484000-141000
<ali1234> how do you rewind a laser disc???????????????
<ali1234> that's clearly not an original error message
<AlanBell> heh, good point
<AlanBell> indeed, 404 error on the BBC master would not be common
<MiLLo> ok
<MiLLo> so..
<MiLLo> i opened it - it opened across both my lappy screen and tv screen
<MiLLo> and still wasn't big enough (I need to open it on just tv and have it scaled to fit)
<MiLLo> and I coudln't figure out how to close it/alt+tab out and thus had to restart laptop :D
<ali1234> what did you open?
<MiLLo> xbmc
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> no idea then
<MiLLo> gord, you still around - any suggestions?
<Guest73686> hi guys. I am using ubuntu 10.10 64 bit on hp dv6 3150sa laptop. it has got a switchable graphics with ATI radeon HD 5000 series with intel chip set. on VGA switcheroo when i choose high perfomance graphics card i am loosing my compiz and 3D desktop. the properietary software fglrx gave error message when tried to install. if i install the driver from the AMD website, is it going to help/
<Guest73686> ?
<AlanBell> Guest73686: personally I would stick to the packaged drivers
<AlanBell> however if things are totally borked I suppose you haven't got much to lose!
<daubers_> evening
<Guest73686> AlanBell, I am not able to install the fglrx driver though.its returning error message
<AlanBell> o/ daubers_
<AlanBell> Guest73686: what error?
<AlanBell> daubers: British Library thingie
<Guest73686> its says its not archived
<daubers> AlanBell: Oh yeah.. forgotten about that. I need to throw together a doodle poll or somesuch
<AlanBell> I don't recognise that error message, what is the exact text of it?
<AlanBell> daubers: yeah, we had a chat about it at the last meeting
<Guest73686> AlanBell, install archives() failed
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110505?action=show&redirect=UKTeam%2FLastMeeting#Daubers%20-%20British%20Library%20Sci-Fi%20Exhibition
<AlanBell> bug 2599059
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 2599059 could not be found
<AlanBell> bug 504287
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 504287 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "package xorg-driver-fglrx (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 2 (dup-of: 552782)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504287
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 552782 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Lucid) "package fglrx (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: dpkg-divert: mismatch on package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552782
<Guest73686> AlanBell, sorry AlanBell, i am not tha wise to understand it all. is there anything that i can
<Guest73686> do to fix it
<AlanBell> Guest73686: just looking up similar sounding bugs at the moment
<Guest73686> AlanBell, i tried 11.04 as well.my compiz is not working at al l on it. so i have deccided not to go for it at the moment
 * daubers wonders if doodle can do polls with an AV based system
<AlanBell> Guest73686: can you try "sudo apt-get install fglrx-installer" in a terminal window, you should get a better error message that way
<Guest73686> AlanBell, uUnable to locate package fglrx-installer
<AlanBell> !info fglrx-installer maverick
<lubotu3> Package fglrx-installer does not exist in maverick
<AlanBell> fair enough!
<AlanBell> um, anyone else?
<DJones> !find fglrx
<Guest73686> AlanBell, i tried installing the Fglrx on 11.04, installation was alright, but still wouldnt let me opn the catlayst centre
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer
<DJones> This might help listing fglrx packages in maverick http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=fglrx&searchon=names&suite=maverick&section=all
<daubers> AlanBell: June/July/August/September? I reckon  July or August which give us 8 weekends or 16 days to choose from
<AlanBell> !info fglrx maverick
<lubotu3> fglrx (source: fglrx-installer): Video driver for the ATI graphics accelerators. In component restricted, is extra. Version 2:8.780-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 19475 kB, installed size 64048 kB (Only available for amd64 i386)
<Guest73686> DJones, AlanBell, is there anything i can do to fix it?
<AlanBell> ah, ok, source package name is fglrx-installer but binary is fglrx
<AlanBell> Guest73686: ok, try sudo apt-get install fglrx
<DJones> Guest73686: I've never had to deal with ati graphics, so I'm not sure of what might help
<AlanBell> this will probably fail, but hopefully with a useful error
<AlanBell> daubers: agreed, throw up a poll, feel free to leave out any dates you can't make
<Guest73686> AlanBell, http://pastebin.com/pd9VZuv7
<AlanBell> anyone else got particular dates in the july/august area they don't want in the poll?
<AlanBell> daubers: avoid oggcamp
<daubers> AlanBell: Good point
<AlanBell> Guest73686: excellent, much better error message
<popey> Evening all.
<AlanBell> Guest73686: that is an interesting one, it tells you how to fix it and ends with (this is not recommended)
<AlanBell> so by that I think they mean "do this right now"
<daubers> Doodley pollingness! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp
<AlanBell> when something says "set the FORCE_ATI_UNINSTALL environment variable" what does that mean? what should it be set to?
<Guest73686> AlanBell, ok
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 26th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp
<daubers> AlanBell: Email away
<Guest99378> AlanBell, anything else that i can do ?
<czajkowski> whoo we're through to the final
<AlanBell> czajkowski <3 jedward
<daubers> Oh flying spaghetti monsters, thats on this weekend isn't it
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 26th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp | czajkowski <3 jedward
<czajkowski> :D
<AlanBell> wasn't me!
 * DJones also denys any knowledge
 * popey whistles nonchalantly
<daubers> popey can whistle now?
<DJones> ....And Whistling popey also makes it through to Eurovision final in a head to head with Jedward
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KW2dIXmPVk
<daubers> At least popey has some talen
<daubers> t
<gord> i am just now learning what a jedward is, from a friend. the world is strange and confusing to me.
<gord> are they what passes for entertainment in ireland?
<ali1234> no, they're famous from britain's got x factor
<AlanBell> uh oh
* czajkowski changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 26th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpm
<czajkowski> behave!
<popey> http://handbag.popey.com/
<popey> "special" powers
<czajkowski> move along here
<czajkowski> nothing to see
<czajkowski> gord: yer special
<czajkowski> you need to get out more
<popey> or stay in more
<popey> to be fair
<popey> smart move bigcalm!
<popey> stay out of it!
<popey> BARK BARK BARK Joeb454! BARK BARK!
 * czajkowski wonders wtf popey is on about 
<Joeb454> BARK BARK popey BARK BARK BARK!
 * Joeb454 too
<gord> WOOF WOOF WOOF!
<gord> this is fun, we should do this every night
<popey> :)
<popey> Milk cat would not approve
<popey> http://meow.popey.com/
<Joeb454> I'll make sure to leave and join to remind popey to do it all over again
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> popey: http://oo00.eu/
<popey> haha
<mgdm> that's tremendous
<AlanBell> best viewed with a webkit browser btw
<mgdm> yeah, worked in Chrome :)
<ali1234> hamitron: http://imagebin.org/152944
<hamitron> omg
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> you gotta make a ppa for it?
<hamitron> you've just converted me over :/
<ali1234> no need its only 1 file
<AlanBell> bitcoin mining appindicator?
<hamitron> no, something more important
<ali1234> well, it's two if you count the eveapi.py
<hamitron> eve online ;)
<hamitron> I got a feeling I will be unlucky on this bitcoin
<ali1234> bitcoin would be another good candidate for this type of thing i guess
<ali1234> except that the count is a integer
<ali1234> and only 3 digits will fit
<hamitron> ali1234: so it won't even work for my eve account?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> well not if you're super rich, no
<AlanBell> that isn't going to work well for people with 4816 unread emails in their inbox
<ali1234> no, it isn't
 * hamitron has 2060
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> and I have 4.4 bil isk in eve
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i have nearly 1B in market orders
<ali1234> i wanted this so i don't have to log in to check if they've sold
<hamitron> I'm not playing atm
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> makes sense
<ali1234> hamitron: source: https://github.com/ali1234/eve-unity
<hamitron> will take a look later
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> since count is a integer
<ali1234> maybe it could be abbreviated
<ali1234> like, instead of 1000, 1K
<ali1234> instead 1000000, 1M... etc
<ali1234> that could be done in libunity
<ali1234> and no change to the API
 * gord adds another checkmark to the number of projects sharing the unity namespace
<ali1234> is that not allowed?
<ali1234> what should i call it?
<gord> oh wait its talking to unity - i get it
<gord> i thought the project was just called eve-unity or something :)
<ali1234> no, it's a bridge between eve api and unity api
<ali1234> but i guess you figured that out
<gord> fyi, libunity api is still subject to change come 11.10
<gord> but for what your doing, doesn't look like anything will hurt much
<ali1234> i know those meego guys are touchy about calling your meego related apps "meego-whatever"
<ali1234> trademarks
<gord> ah, we have no official standing on that, though it sounds like <project>-unity is better than unity-<project> - because its bindings to unity
<ali1234> i wonder if i can index into the launchers and make them do a nightrider style wave animation with the urgent property
<exobuzz> gord, is there anything i can do currently to get the brightness control applet working with unity ?
<ali1234> is it a gnome panel applet?
<exobuzz> yes
<ali1234> i think no then
<ali1234> you can only whitelist system tray stuff afaik
<exobuzz> part of gnome-power-manager
<exobuzz> whats the plan for this? its serious loss of functionality without this currently on the joggler
<AlanBell> exobuzz: on my laptop I have fn+cursor up/down to do brightness
<AlanBell> ah
<exobuzz> yeh heh
 * AlanBell spots a flaw
<ali1234> no keyboard ...
<exobuzz> even with the on screen keyboard, it wouldnt be "easy"
<exobuzz> ali1234, whats the plan for all these applets? seems a bit of loss of functionality - shame there is no panel emu sort of thing (no idea how applets work so speculation on possibility)
<exobuzz> woops
<exobuzz> i mean gord
<exobuzz> does gnome 3 shell use indicators or this is unity specific? if it's unity only, isnt that fragmenting things and giving users less choice?
<exobuzz> aah i just read gnome 3 doesnt use applets also ?
<ali1234> exobuzz: as i understand it, gnome-shell uses neither indicators nor gnome-panel applets, but something different
<exobuzz> might not then ubuntu users find themselves rather alone if other dists go with gnome shell? in terms of software support
<ali1234> perhaps
<ali1234> but otoh gnome-shell is even more disliked than unity
<exobuzz> i only recently switched back to ubuntu, to try out some natty stuff. now linux mint 11 is out, i might go back to their desktop, since i liketh their start menu
<exobuzz> (rc is out)
<bittin_> is both Sounder and shipit closed down now?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-13
<monotoko> British trains annoy me...they need a more reliable computer system >.>
<MattJ> monotoko: except for the displays next to the seats /in/ the trains, it's usually been ok for me
<monotoko> MattJ, I asked the online system for a standard class ticket for a very long journey tomorrow...it crashed, when it came back it charged me for a first class
<ball> They have displays next to seats in trains now?
<monotoko> seems I'm riding first class tomorrow...some money I could have done without spending really ._.
<MattJ> ball: a small LCD to indicate whether the seat is available or reserved
<MattJ> It's always wrong, so everyone just ignores them
<ball> Wow, that's high tech.
<ball> They used to just stick a piece of card in a slot on top of the chair.
<ball> (British Rail)
<MattJ> They still do on some lines, I believe
<MattJ> So old-fashioned :)
<monotoko> they do on East Coast
<exobuzz> unity works with the latest emgd on my joggler. heh. finally
<exobuzz> not that i want to use it but. better than crashing
 * ball imagines Britain has free monorails everywhere now.
<^zenhoobb-it> hi!
 * MattJ hops on the monorail to bed
<ball> ...and hovverboards.
<ging> is there a way to enable spell checking on gnome terminal on ubuntu?
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Dell vostro 1014 ubuntu 11.04 keyboard issue
<kaushal> Any clue
<popey> not with that limited set of detail
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp
<davmor2> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<popey> lo
<popey> !keyring
<popey> bah
<MartijnVdS> !popey
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<MartijnVdS> ha
<DJones> Morning
<awilkins> Is there a way to distinguish between Unity and GNOME from a shell script (e.g. env variables?)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: You should be able to do a dbus query?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, The only query I can see worth executing would be ListNames, but I don't see a value in there that would tell me I'm running Unity over GNOME
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Try querying the Launcher API
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Gnome doesn't have it, Unity does
<awilkins> It's only so I can make an rdesktop window 24 pixesl shorter when I'm in Unity :-)
<MartijnVdS> wait, that works the other way around
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ask gord, he'll know
<MartijnVdS> â« Gord only knows
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<awilkins> Unity gets another chance today. Had switched back to GNOME to avoid bug #781618 but I'm giving Unity another go so I must like it in some way.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 781618 in eclipse (Ubuntu) "Editor windows enter a read only state on screen locks and workspace changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781618
<gord> no environment variables that i am aware of, sorry. you can check com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service to see if that exists over dbus. or you could just modify the unity script in /usr/bin/unity to set whatever environment variable you want
<TheAshMan> Anyone recommend any server monitoring tools to output usage statistics?
<awilkins> gord, Thanks ; seems a bit odd that DESKTOP_SESSION still says "gnome" but I suspect that's for backward compatibility
<gord> awilkins, yeah, its not really a completely new session, its just a new shell... soo.. but yeah solidifying the story here is something we'll try to do looking forward
<awilkins> Is there a "Unity feedback" location?
<MartijnVdS> launchpad :)
<awilkins> People must like it, unity-shell only has 2 bugs (and one of them is mine...)
<hoover> mornin
<awilkins> Hmmph, bugs in unity, or unity-shell ???
<gord> unity
<awilkins> Just suggestions really
<DJones> Has anybody tried Chrome OS, I'm tempted to give it a try on a spare laptop & wondered if anybody had tried it & had issues, from what I've read it doesn't require an SSD, but wondered about any hardware issues
<dutchie> i was under the understanding it is just ubuntu under the covers
<DJones> dutchie: From what I've read, it seems to be Gentoo based
<DJones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_OS
<DJones> Although I'm also seeing comments that there are bits of ubuntu in tehre as well, so maybe a bit of a mish mash
<gord> it was ubuntu, but the guy running it is a gentoo fan... so hey lets override our engineers decisions and end up with a frankendistro =\
<ali1234> gord: i got a segfault in libdbusmenu :/
<ali1234> but i have no idea what to report it against
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/81zEtNxN
<gord> libdbusmenu maybe?
<ali1234> well... ubuntu-bug says that package doesn't exist
<gord> i'm not on a machine with unity right now so i can't test
<gord> package name is dbusmenu-glib1
<gord> libdbusmenu-glib1 even
<ali1234> ah thanks
<ali1234> nope, neither of those exists either :/
<ali1234> there's libdbusmenu-glib3
<gord> there you go
<ali1234> libdbusmenu-glib.so.3 <- oh, of course
<ali1234> (from backtrace)
<gord> ;)
<oimon> DJones: i was googling last night, and read that chrome OS can't be installed directly onto a eee pc but has to be run within a VM?
<oimon> sounds strange to me
<dwatkins> sounds like OS X
<dwatkins> needing specific hardware, that is
<popey> i dont think thats the case
<popey> you can build chromium OS from source for any x86 board
<oimon> ok, maybe it was the old version they were trying
<oimon> maybe it didn't have an installer or something
<daubers>  /nick daubers
<daubers> stupid xchat
<daubers> morning
<kazade> morning all
<oimon> i have found the chromium os rebuilds at http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/vanilla.php, gonna try on my eeee
<dwatkins> I booted hexxeh's build of Chrome OS on my Eee a while ago.
<oimon> how did it go dwatkins
<dwatkins> oimon: it ran fine, although scrolling was a bit slow - probably because it used a generic gfx driver
<oimon> cool, how long ago was that dwatkins
<popey> i ran the build script last night on my desktop and it failed :(
<popey> might clean out and start again
<popey> http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/building-chromium-os
<shauno> I seriously don't 'get' python.  if the aim's to make everything difficult, why not just use C
<BigRedS> I'd heard it was relatively easy?
<BigRedS> I've never actually written or read any, and I am a Perl sort of person, though
<dwatkins> oimon: a year or so
<oimon> ah ok, i'm about to try last night's build
<oimon> will report back shortly :SD
<dwatkins> oimon: I imagine it's significantly better now.
<dwatkins> thanks, I'm interested to know more, oimon
<oimon> i'm most interested in fast boot
<dwatkins> I'mma try it in virtualbox on my Mac.
 * popey starts the build again
<oimon> doesn't work on my eee :( get a black screen after the boot splash
<oimon> ctrl-alt-f2 gives a virtual console tho
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon, what's happening?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: nought much, just trying to wake myself upabit. and you?
<bigcalm> Glad it's Friday, been a long week.
<brobostigon> yes.
<BigRedS> well, been a normal week after several short ones :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: did you get your arduino interpolation code working?
<ali1234> arduino just got a lot more interesting: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/adk.html
<AlanBell> ick
<AlanBell> that looks like an ugly hack
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, i heard about that,could be interesting. i think i have found a solution. let melink you up, i just need to add an equation to it.
<popey> "link you up"
 * popey checks he's still in the UK.
<kazade> :)
 * brobostigon sits in the corner.
<bigcalm> popey: socity crumbles a little more each day
<popey> I weep for the future.
<brobostigon> ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid/+junk/saab-hybrid/view/head:/BareSaab1/BareSaabv2/BareSaabv2.pde
 * oimon gives up on chromium os until it works on his eee :(
<popey> oimon: tried it?
<ali1234> goto? srsly?
<oimon> popey: got a black screen, although virtual console worked but could not login
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is the only way, i could immediatly think, of doing what i wanted.
<oimon> i was using the hexxeh vanilla builds
<ali1234> brobostigon: i came up with this: http://pastebin.com/Gqfwrnh1
<brobostigon> ali1234: looks interesting. i will make a version, and try it,
<DJones> oimon: It'll probably be an oldish dell laptop that I install on, quite probably won't work, but don't lose out unless I try
<ali1234> brobostigon: with comments: http://pastebin.com/nDcs7Ym1
<oimon> DJones: yep, it's an unofficial build anyway..maybe there's a fix i just don't know about..seen a few people complaining about the issue without a reslolution
<popey> oimon: I couldn't get any of the hexxeh builds to work
<popey> thats why I built my own
<popey> its dead easy, all scripted
<oimon> on which hardware popey
<oimon> do i have to trash my current install, or can i install onto usb?
<ali1234> brobostigon: there are bugs, see if you can find them
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am just looking,
<brobostigon> ali1234: you seem to have spaces in some places in mathemaics, and not others,
<ali1234> that's habit
<ali1234> i like to put spaces around + - but not * /
<ali1234> because that's how you'd write it if you wrote it out by hand
<popey> oimon: the build script lets you create a vm image, iso or usb stick
<ali1234> but then if it's inside the brackets... it comes before the others
<ali1234> so no space
<brobostigon> ali1234: oh, i see.
<ali1234> but that's just me being weird
<brobostigon> ok.
<popey> oimon: http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-guide is the guide I followed, very easy
<brobostigon> ali1234: float m .
<ali1234> that's not a bug
<brobostigon> its used,there, and is thenforgotten about.
<ali1234> no?
<ali1234> it's used on the next two lines?
<brobostigon> true.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i cant see it, i will probeblykickmyself.
<ali1234> it's fencepost error
<brobostigon> ?
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-by-one_error
<brobostigon> ali1234: and inthe whileloop, points_y does have a position specified.
<brobostigon> doesnt*
<ali1234> why would it?
<ali1234> i could have just written 6 there instead of sizeof(points_y)
<ali1234> why?
<brobostigon> ali1234: because it needs a place inthe arrayto work from,
<ali1234> not for the y
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<RaycisCharles> Is there a thin client variant of Ubuntu suitable for establishing vnc/ssh sessions?
<shauno> ugh, that's annoying.  whois doesn't provide expiry dates for .eu domains
<MartijnVdS> http://www.albertoandreu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Diapositiva11.jpg
<oimon> nice
<MartijnVdS> I've found it to be quite accurate :)
<danfish> ls
<danfish> oops. morning :)
<brobostigon> good afternoon danfish :)
<danfish> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<danfish> hmm. It's been a morning of fail so far (overwrote a project I'd been working on). I think a hearty lunch is in order
<DJones> danfish: I'm guessing that from the comment, the backup may have been non-existant or not as up to date as would have been liked
<gord> oh dear - no backups?
<gord> not making backups for projects is a thing i keep telling myself i should do somehow nicely
<danfish> gord: DJones: nah - backups are for wimps ;)
 * brobostigon thanks git, for his project backup.
<danfish> a combination of foremost and grep worked wonders, but I was near to a 'brown trouser' moment for bit
<DJones> danfish: When I was at college, the lecturer always kept saying that if you didn't have a backup, eventually it'd get your back up
<gord> well obviously everything is in bzr for me, but that doesn't protect against rm -rf
<gord> my current workflow is to try and bzr push as much as possible, but thats kind of a pain. idealy i want to store my project files on my NAS so i can get to it from anywhere, but build locally... tricky
<danfish> version control is on my 'to do' list and has now moved to 'to do today' :)
 * popey hugs time machine and rsnapshot
<brobostigon> sorry, launchpad uses bzr not git.
 * danfish hugs crashplan (having just remembered I use that)
 * popey pokes chromeos build
<popey> takes aaaaages
<popey> Pending 203, Ready 46, Running 1, Retrying 0, Total 286 [Time 7m2.4s Load 3.68 3.59 3.36]
<popey> come ON!
<andylockran> ooh
<gord> you should see how long it takes to do arm builds of ubuntu =\ x86 takes like 20 minutes though
<gord> so i'm taking a look at my budapest photos, apparently budapest has buses that drive in the river...
<oimon> popey: which hardware?
<popey> oimon: hmm?
<oimon> popey: which hardware u building it on and which hardware u building it for?
 * hamitron hears the word "build" and gets excited
<MartijnVdS> hamitron the builder?
<oimon> slashdot is a bit broken on chromium :(
<hamitron> oh no, was thinking more something new on a comp
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> whenever i have to use a windows machine i'm always amazed at how long it takes to populate the Add/remove programs list
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Registry isn't optimized for speed
<gord> huh... managed to make my router overheat and die from uploading photos to my nas... new router time i think
<MartijnVdS> gord: Shiny new router time
 * DJones orders a shiny new gord with less photos
<andylockran> Good Afternoon People.
<gord> oops. i guess i broke g-s-d. unity panel looks snazzy in 1996-o-vision
<bigcalm> "The current stable release of GNUMP3d is v3.0, which was released upon the 18th of October 2007." - are there any other similar services that are more up to date?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: VLC?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mpd?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: does VLC have a web interface?
<Azelphur> I think so xD
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'll take a look, ta
<oimon> trying to work out whether it was the mozzarella for lunch or having to use a windows server for 30 mins that gave me a headache :(
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to know the Serial Number of the Hard disk ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what kind of hard disk? USB? SATA? PATA?
<kaushal> SATA
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: check the disk utility
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: (palimpsest)
<kaushal> (palimpsest) ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: that's the name of the tool, in case you can't find it
<kaushal> I mean on the server
<kaushal> will it work on the server ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it's a GUI app, so I guess it won't
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Next stop: Google :)
<kaushal> :)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: i tried dmidecode
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I'd try sdparm -i
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> or hdparm
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: hdparm -i /dev/sda
<kaushal> worked like a charm
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<kaushal> is it recommended to upgrade 10.10 to 11.04 using update method or clean install method ?
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<kaushal> yes for ?
<MartijnVdS> either :)
<kaushal> I am not a big fan of upgrade method
<kaushal> since i need to always watch the screen :(
<kaushal> I prefer clean install method
<MartijnVdS> Too bad you lose all custom config that way
<kaushal> i see
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: but is it 100% safe ?
<MartijnVdS> Upgrade shouldn't be asking too many questions though
<MartijnVdS> Nothing is 100% safe. Make a backup first -- you'll need to do that if you're going to reinstall anyway
<kaushal> since i am doing it on a production laptop
<MartijnVdS> Even a clean install might not work on your hardware
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: makes sense
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Just try an upgrade. If it breaks, try a clean install. If that breaks, restore the backup.
<oimon> struggling to rotate a 3gp video in ubuntu :( stupid ffmpeg comile options
<kaushal> so 1) backup 2) upgrade if it fails then clean install ?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: compile options?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: why compile options?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: sure
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
<oimon> MartijnVdS: it doesn't seem to understand -vf option
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: whats the difference b/n upgrade and update :)
<oimon> seems you need to recompile ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: man apt-get
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Please just read the release notes, it explains everyhting.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: scary
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: I mean in general to computing
<kaushal> release notes of 11.04 ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Yes
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you could try using mencoder
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://thinkmoult.com/2010/04/08/tech-tip-5-rotate-a-video-by-90-degrees-with-mencoder/
<oimon> MartijnVdS: cheers,. trying now
<oimon> mencoder sort of worked except it stripped audio and was 8x too fast
<oimon> i should give up...one of those days
<oimon> surrpised not more people don't need to rotate videos from their phone
<MartijnVdS> oimon: gstreamer pipeline? :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: most people just hold their phone correctly.. or use Windows/Mac
<MartijnVdS> speaking of which
<MartijnVdS> can't pitivi do it?
<oimon> ah success! avidemux
<BigRedS> Hm, I appear unable to add things to the panel in unity, is this by design?
<popey> yes
<BigRedS> cool, I'll stop trying :)
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> popey: does one have to have a 'pro' account with bit.ly to use ones own domain name?
<oimon> what's the name of the process that causes your gnome classic to look like win 2000 when it crashes?
<ali1234> gnome-settings-daemon
<oimon> ali1234: ta
<popey> bigcalm: so you going to call up for 30mb now ? :)
<kaushal> popey: hi
<kaushal> How many million lines of code in the linux kernel ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: irrelevant :)
<popey> http://www.h-online.com/open/features/What-s-new-in-Linux-2-6-38-1205467.html?page=6
<popey> "14 March 2011 - Linux 2.6.38 was released (14,294,439 lines of code)"
<MartijnVdS> !irc2google
<popey> indeed
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=how+many+lines+of+code+in+the+linux+kernel
<popey> thats how I found that information btw
<bigcalm> popey: have you had your VM paper bill showing that you're not paying any more?
<daubers> bigcalm: Uh oh... now you're in trouble. VM's billing department is a nightmare
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<brobostigon> is it posible, either within apache, or serperatly, to create statustics and details, of the peoplewhopull pages from apache?
<popey> yes brobostigon
<popey> i use webalizer
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, there are various ways to process the logs
<popey> http://popey.com/usage/ like that
<dwatkins> I use webalizer also, although there's also analog.
<dwatkins> I like the way popey installs analysis software.
<popey> you do?
<brobostigon> exactly, that kind of thing popey.
<dwatkins> I was going to say "I like the way popey thinks" but it would have been ambiguous ;)
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> Anyone know what this is about? http://pastebin.com/sa0LeyJX seem to get it on a couple different things I'm trying to compile :P
<brobostigon> thank you popey :)
<danfish> Azelphur: it means that you've got a macro that you've possibly not defined correctly :P
<DJones> Anybody here with Sky anytime plus? I've just been asked whether somebody needs a normal network cable or a crossover one, from what I can see its just a standard patch cable to go from the router to the sky box
<Azelphur> wow, I'm so enlightened now :P
<danfish> Azelphur: glad to be of help :D
<popey> DJones: surely routers auto sense the cable these days?
<DJones> popey: yeah, probably right there, but the sky receiver is probavly a different matter
<Azelphur> wow, looks like I'm not the only one, there's 1880 results for an exact quote for that error on google
<Azelphur> but doesn't seem to be much in the way of solutions :/
<danfish> DJones: having cannablised a sky box recently for parts, the network card was suprisingly standard - a realtek chip IIRC, so probably autosensing
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<DJones> danfish: i took one apart, but it was an old hd box that wasn't anyime+ compatibe anyway, all I wanted was the hdd out of it
<danfish> DJones: the only particularly proprietary parts I would find were the tv tuners
<danfish> the rest looked fairly bog standard
<DJones> danfish: I didn't look that closely at it, I just found it a pig to get the drive out without breaking the drive/cables
<brobostigon> ok this is weird, i just installed tried to get into /var/log/apache2/ and it wont let me cd into it, unless i am sudo su, and it wont let mereadfiles fromit, or within it, withnormal sudo nano **. this is weird.
<popey> they're 640 root:adm owned ?
<Azelphur> popey: just picked up an amd 6990 for bitcoining :p
<popey> heh
<popey> loon
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> ouch
<brobostigon> drwxr-x--- 2 root        adm         4096 2011-05-11 09:55 apache2
<Azelphur> in other news, is displayport > dvi > vga sane?
<popey> Azelphur: you're gonna display anything on it?
<popey> brobostigon: looks right
<Azelphur> popey: I'm thinking of using it as my main card as well as bitcoin yes, depending largely on how well displayport goes with multi display and wine performance/breakage
<brobostigon> popey: soif i stick webaliser in cron, it will be able  to read the log out of it fine?
<popey> brobostigon: yes
<brobostigon> popey: thts good tohear :)
<popey> you can read them if you sudo -s
<brobostigon> ok, let me, try.
<popey> is this ubuntu or debian?
<brobostigon> ubuntu 10.04 lts.
<popey> Azelphur: thats an insanely expensive card
<Azelphur> indeed
<bigcalm> It would be nice if VLC player knew that track 10 does not come before track 1. I can see why it's sorted incorrectly, but you'd think that this wouldn't be the default
<gord> file a bug :)
<bigcalm> Lazy
<gord> then you have only yourself to blame
<bigcalm> Nope, I can blame others and feel quite happy with that
<ali1234> at least they're sorted
<ali1234> totem just opens them in random order
<Azelphur> popey: I got it saturday delivery too :p
<ali1234> displayport is supposed to support multiple displays on one connector
<Azelphur> ali1234: nice, I'm interested in how well it actually does quad display though
<Azelphur> if I'll need to have separate X sessions in order to have >2 displays
<Azelphur> or loose composite/acceleration
<ali1234> all that will be the same
<ali1234> its just a connector
<ali1234> actual picture comes from the crtc
<Azelphur> ali1234: the problems with nvidia seem to stem from using separate physical cards in order to get more ports
<ali1234> from what i hear ati drivers are just as broken as nvidia when you try to do anything unusual with them
<ali1234> no, it's not about ports
<ali1234> you can get nvidia card with three ports on it, but you can only use two at once
<brobostigon> will what i put /etc/cron.**/ automaticlly run, asspecificied inthe timeperiod, both in the folder name,and its reference in /etc/crontab ?
<ali1234> ati supports three iirc
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> but that's down to the number of crtcs on the card, not the number of ports
<Azelphur> but my card has 1 dvi + 4 displayport, so what happens when you get to >3?
<ali1234> dunno
<Azelphur> me either :D
<ali1234> maybe it does support 4
<Azelphur> http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Radeon-HD-6990-Pictures-Sapphire-6990-XFX-6990-Cables-KitGuru.jpg
<ali1234> i bet it won't do 5 though
<Azelphur> hehe only really need it to do 4, although 5 would be nice.
<ali1234> i wish nvidia would make a card with more than two crtc
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> so its a dual gpu card
<ali1234> the probably explains it
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> but it might still appear like you have two physical cards to xorg... i dunno
<ali1234> so you might end up with same problem
<Azelphur> hehe, I'll find out soon enough \o/
<seeker> Ati use something called eyefinity to do multiple similar monitors
<seeker> Where the drivers present a single surface covering all of the monitors
<seeker> 5xxx or 6xxx cards should be able to handle 3 monitors
<seeker> Although 5xxx cards only have 2 clock generators, so you can only use two of ( dvi, dvi, hdmi) at the same
<seeker> Time
<seeker> So 3 monitors requires using a displayport connection
<Azelphur> seeker I see, not 4 then? :(
<Tommeh> You can have up to 6 DP monitors on most.
<Tommeh> If the ports are there.
<Tommeh> IIRC you can also supplement the pixel generators with active convertors.
<Tommeh> clock generators, even
<Tommeh> Probably find more info on that on #radeon
<Tommeh> Was Bridgeman that I spoke to about it.
<Azelphur> interesting :P
<Azelphur> Tommeh: lol that's for open drivers
<Azelphur> doubt I'mma do much wine gaming on them :D
<Tommeh> Good luck :)
<Tommeh> (In either case)
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<Tommeh> Asking 'a lot' of the binary driver is always a fun experience.
<Tommeh> Feature-wise.
<Azelphur> Tommeh: oh I know, I'm currently doing it with nvidia.
<Azelphur> it's not a happy bunny. :(
<Tommeh> But hey, despite the lack of higher OpenGL version support, the 3D performance on Gallium is passable for the most part :)
<Tommeh> "Usable" I should say
<seeker> You can get dp-> dvi converters
<archon> =~ is the same =! ?
<bigcalm> No, ~ mean approx.
<Tommeh> seeker: yes, but unless they're active convertors, it's only possible to drive two DVI/HDMI heads at once.
<seeker> Yes. Active connectors have come down in price an awful lot now
<Tommeh> That's good to know.
<archon> ok thx, have a nice day :)
<ali1234> ~ means bitwise invert, ! means boolean not
<BigRedS> ~ always implies regex to me, from =~
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: slow Royal Mail is slow :) I got the package _today_
<AlanBell> wow :)
<AlanBell> fwiw popey doesn't have his hat yet
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also RM?
<AlanBell> no, will be delivered in person at some point when I remember to take it to an event we are both at
<gord> there are hats involved?
<gord> i want a hat
<gord> can i have a hat?
<gord> do we all get hats?
<Azelphur> I agree, ubuntu-uk should have hats.
<gord> if Azelphur gets a hat i want a hat
<Azelphur> can it be a dunce hat?
<ball> I've just seen a screen shot of Gnome 3...is that why Ubuntu switched to Unity?
 * awilkins lost his fedora on the train last year
<ball> awilkins: The hat or the installation disc?
<awilkins> The hat
<awilkins> Since everyone was talking about hats an hour ago
<ball> I missed that.
<ball> Okay, I should get my haircut.
<ball> Bye!
<phonex01> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation !!!!!!! someone hacked Youtube ???
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: no, someone wrote a bug in youtube code :)
<phonex01> how is that !!!
<MartijnVdS> People make mistakes
<MartijnVdS> coders write bugs
<phonex01> oh
<phonex01> but it is ok now
<dutchie> :( chrome update got wedged again
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> evening jacobw
<daubers> Evening
<kkitano> Evening
<popey> lo
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<AlanBell> I got my polycom communicator working on Natty
<AlanBell> bump up the volume, fiddle for ages with no success, unplug, re-plug, all works!
<Azelphur> popey: lol, got my gtx570 sustained doing 119Mhash/sec without oc, bitcoin wiki says 105 :)
<Azelphur> and I'm only using idle time since I actually want my computer to be responsive lol
<DJones> Azelphur: Your computer has idle time? What happened, power cut?
<Azelphur> DJones: haha, nah I mean the unused GPU power, when I'm roaming around the desktop I don't really need it
<Azelphur> when I'm gaming I obviously stop farming
<DJones> :)
<Azelphur> DJones: I was just winning in ##hardware http://pastebin.com/YPvsJrkn :P
<DJones> :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> Azelphur: what CPU do you have?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: i7 950, I'm not even using it :D
<AlanBell> ah, the little 950
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> is this any good? -> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV620 LE [Radeon HD 3450]
<Azelphur> for bitcoin?
<popey> Azelphur: my gtx 460 only manages about 48 Mhash
<AlanBell> Azelphur: yes, or in general
<Azelphur> popey: hehe
<AlanBell> it is on a headless server
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it's utterly useless for bitcoin, sorry. OpenCL isn't supported on 3xxx cards.
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> Azelphur: time echo "scale=5000; 4*a(1)" | bc -l -q
<AlanBell> user 0m24.440s
<popey> nooo hugo random benchmark!
<AlanBell> oh OK then
<popey> http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<popey>  time perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'
<Azelphur> hehe, I'm still 4th on there :D
<AlanBell> user 0m4.410s
<Azelphur> I need to clock up my CPU, I got plenty of cooling now :)
<popey> you made the last edit
<AlanBell> would probably be faster than that if it wasn't running 10 VMs as well
<popey> http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark?action=diff&rev2=7&rev1=6
<kirior> hi all got a (maybe silly) question
<popey> go for it kirior
<kirior> how can i get a python programing launguage editor (kinda like the one on the website for linux?)
<popey> do you have a specific editor in mind?
<kirior> no
<kirior> i got
<popey> gedit works and comes by default
<kirior> a ok :)
<Azelphur> 192.71 MH/s Average speed in last 7 minutes wee \o/
<popey> nice
<Azelphur> I reckon once the 6990 arrives my machine will do a gigahash easy
<popey> cant believe you bought a 500 quid video card
 * Azelphur is loony :D
<AlanBell> http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<popey> mind you btc has doubled in value in a week or so
<Azelphur> exactly
<popey> hehe
<Azelphur> it's an investment with risk, if it doesn't pay off I can just flog the 6990 and get most of the money back
<popey> sure
<popey> interesting to see where it goes
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<popey> and when the next crash is :)
 * Azelphur has dreams of building a bitcoin farm
<AlanBell> does bitcoin have a tax mechanism?
<Azelphur> no
<Azelphur> bitcoins are like cash
<popey> countdown to it getting shutdown :)
 * brobostigon thinks, he would rather have the real thing,
<Azelphur> lol
<DJones> Azelphur: I'd say it was more like gambling winnings, cash income gets taxed, gambling winnings are tax free
<Azelphur> :D
<AlanBell> DJones: you mean casino chips?
<DJones> Market traders get taxed, lottery winners don;t get taxed
<AlanBell> ah, outside the scope of income tax certainly
<AlanBell> so you mean mined bitcoins are like gambling wins?
<DJones> AlanBell: Seems like it from how I've heard it described, mined bitcoins depend on random chances & processes
<AlanBell> yes, but the idea is to build a trading economy on it
<DJones> Perhaps more like the lottery than casino/horse racing etc
<AlanBell> so they are promisary notes of some description
<brobostigon> or gold coins, even better,
<AlanBell> the mining bit might be chance, but once mined they can be exchanged for goods and services or real money
<brobostigon> oh, i see. hmmm.
<DJones> AlanBell: I can see what you're saying, although to me a promisary note would be backed back a hard currency/asset (eg gold etc) what are bitcoins backed by
<AlanBell> they are backed by the computer effort required to generate them I think
<kirior> me again :P got this error trying to run my hello world program in python
<kirior> Warning: unknown mime-type for "Helo World!" -- using "application/octet-stream"
<kirior> Error: no such file "Helo World!"
<kirior> what is wrong what am i missing??
<AlanBell> how are you trying to run it kirior?
<kirior> terminal
<AlanBell> so you saved it as what? "hello.py" or something?
<kirior> exactly hello.py
<AlanBell> and you are running "python hello.py"
<kirior> no i just typed ./hello.py
<kirior> ok that did the trick
<AlanBell> did you "chmod +x hello.py"?
<kirior> yes
<AlanBell> and what is the first line of the file?
<kirior> print "Helo World!"
<kirior> but after your advice
<AlanBell> #!/usr/bin/env python
<kirior> /home/marek# python hello.py
<kirior> Helo World!
<AlanBell> the first line needs to be a directive of where to find the python interpreter to run the file
<kirior> shall i add this in every file?
<AlanBell> every python file you want to be executable with ./foo.py
<kirior> ok
<kirior> ok
<kirior> can i execute them from directory? or just terminal (or if i get more advanced i will learn how to do both depending on what i am expecting from the program to do?)
<Azelphur> kirior: if your application has a GUI, and you have the directive at the top of the file, you can just double click it in a file browser
<kirior> ok
<Azelphur> kirior: if your application doesn't have a GUI, then you'll need to run it from the command line
<kirior> sounds reasonable
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> well, you could run a no gui app from the file browser, you just wouldn't be able to see what it was doing as it has no GUI XD
<kirior> but if i  programmed it so i would know what it was doing :)
<kirior> any good online beginner tutorial for python?
<AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/27/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t17:03
<AlanBell> have a look through that
<AlanBell> there are lots of tutorials out there, that is one I did
<Azelphur> AlanBell: didn't know you was into snakes :P
<jacobw> http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
<jacobw> ^ very good python based introduction to programming
<kirior> cool thank you guys for help :)
<kirior> i think ill hit bed for now, c u all next time :)
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> I solved a driver problem with code \o/
<daubers> (Achievment Unlocked)
<DeathSling> hi all  :)     anyone here used shorewall?    with multiple ISP's?
<Guest25827> hi guys, is there any one here who has made switchable graphics work under linux (ATI+intel), would appreciate some help
<AlanBell> hi Guest25827
<AlanBell> I nearly found the answer last time you were on
<Guest25827> hi AlanBell
<Guest25827> AlanBell, would appreciate any help
<AlanBell> so it was the FORCE_ATI_UNINSTALL thing
<AlanBell> so you have a half installed ATI driver or something
<Guest25827> AlanBell, yes
<AlanBell> it needs to be uninstalled and the left over bits removed
<Guest25827> AlanBell, i was trying to install fglrx, but it was giving error message
<Guest25827> yes
<Guest25827> AlanBell, i have removed it from synaptic as it appeared as broken packages
<AlanBell> export FORCE_ATI_UNINSTALL=/usr/share/ati
<AlanBell> ^^ run that in terminal, then . . .
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install fglrx
<Guest25827> AlanBell, could u explain me what is it going to do?
<Guest25827> AlanBell, i am going to do that anyway
<AlanBell> bug 565407
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 565407 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Lucid) "package fglrx (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 - inst_path_default or inst_path_override does not exist in /etc/ati when ATI Drivers are previously installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565407
<AlanBell> similar bug there
<Guest25827> AlanBell, do u need sudo to run that command?
<AlanBell> what it does is set an environment variable to the location of the half-installed ati drivers
<AlanBell> Guest25827: I don't think so
<AlanBell> and when the installer runs it knows it is allowed to force the uninstallation of leftover bits of fglrx from last time it was installed
<AlanBell> something like that anyhow
<Guest25827> i just copied the command export FORCE_ATI_UNINSTALL=/usr/share/ati tppenendoothing ha the command line, n
<AlanBell> yeah, nothing will happen
<AlanBell> nothing visible anyhow
<AlanBell> does it let fglrx install cleanly now is the question?
<Guest25827> http://pastebin.com/MeBS5ucY
<Guest25827> AlanBell, i got an error message again
<AlanBell> /usr/share/ati/fglrx-uninstall.sh
<AlanBell> try that
<AlanBell> or sudo /usr/share/ati/fglrx-uninstall.sh
<Guest25827> AlanBell, http://pastebin.com/QCqis3sV
<AlanBell> hmm, I am out of ideas
<Guest25827> AlanBell, its so disappointing! i waited for 11.04 but the unity wouldnt work and getting the error message that there is no hard ware support. compiz is not working on classical desktop as well
<Guest25827> looking forward to mint now, if it can do anything
<AlanBell> file a bug
<Guest25827> AlanBell, how can i do that
<Guest25827> AlanBell, i have filed many bugs on switchable graphics,have never been even looked at
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
<lazybug> i used "sugar" and activated "ctrl+shift grabs mouse and keyboard" as my cursor was caught in sugar window how can i disable "ctrl+shift grabs mouse and keyboard"
<Azelphur> Seeker`, when you overclock, does /proc/cpuinfo change?
<Seeker`> hmm
<Seeker`> don't think so
<Azelphur> ah
<Seeker`> at least, not all of the info
<Azelphur> that'll explain it not changing then :D
<Azelphur> mine doesn't change at all
<Seeker`> because the CPU is still designed as an X GHz processor
<Seeker`> Azelphur: try dmidecode?
<Azelphur> Seeker`, yep that says it right :D
<Azelphur> Seeker`, I'm coming after your perl benchmark record :P
<popey> hehe
<AlanBell> how many cores have you got Azelphur?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-14
<AlanBell> 920 is quad core
<Seeker`> Azelphur: what have you got it clocked at?
<Seeker`> Azelphur: also, link to the page?
<AlanBell> http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<Azelphur> Seeker`, 3.7, going for more
<Azelphur> AlanBell, 4 cores with hyperthreading
<AlanBell> yeah, 980 is hexacore (12 with hyperthreading)
<Seeker`> Azelphur: gotta be a stable overclock though :P
<Azelphur> indeed
<Seeker`> I mean it cant be a "run for 5 mins and reset it" :P
 * AlanBell decides not to overclock the server
<Seeker`> I want you using that overclock in 3 months time if you claim to beat my record :P
<Azelphur> Seeker`, yea, this is stable
<Azelphur> Seeker`, I have a very big radiator :)
<Seeker`> Azelphur: liquid cooled?
<Azelphur> yep
<Seeker`> if you can't beat 4GHz you're doing it wrong :P
<Seeker`> I'm on air cooling
<Azelphur> Seeker`, yea I'm going to 4ghz now
<Azelphur> it's scary :(
<Azelphur> Seeker`, my BIOS says "According to Intel CPU SPEC, DIMMs with voltage setting over 1.65V may damage CPU permanantly!!"
<Azelphur> scary settings are scary :o
<Seeker`> Azelphur: well, its true
<Azelphur> Seeker`, still reasonably safe with decent cooling though right? :p
<Azelphur> I had it up at 3.7 and it wasn't even going above 67.5C while running stress --cpu 8
<Seeker`> that voltage isn't about cooling
<Seeker`> if you set the voltage too high ,the components can't handle it
<Seeker`> breaks them down
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> I should be alright with my hardware though right?
<Azelphur> corsair dominator memory, sabertooth motherboard :p
<Seeker`> You don't need to set the memory about 1.65V
<Seeker`> *above
<Azelphur> http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/overclocking/22106-core-i7-overclocking-guide-beginners.html#post66637
<Azelphur> this is the guide I'm following, it says 1.66 ;o
<Seeker`> hmm
<Seeker`> there might be a 1.657 or so option
<Azelphur> it's a typing box, you type in it :p
<Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur live streaming my bios screen xD
<Azelphur> Seeker`, think I should set it to 1.65?
<Seeker`> memory overclocking makes so little difference, I'm not sure why you'd need to go out of spec by that much
<Azelphur> I dunno, as I say I really know nothing about this xD
<Azelphur> I'm just following the guide \o/
<Azelphur> Seeker`, suggestions? :p
<Seeker`> suggestions for what?
<Azelphur> re 1.66 or 1.65
<Azelphur> I think staying at 1.65 sounds best just wondering if it breaks the overclock :p
<Azelphur> i know my ram is designed for 1.65
<Seeker`> 1.65 shouldn't break the overclock
<Seeker`> it depends on individual components too
<Seeker`> slight differences in quality
<Azelphur> ok :p
<Azelphur> 1.65 it is then
 * Azelphur crosses fingers
<Azelphur> seems to have not exploded \o/
<Azelphur> Seeker`, I'm getting lower temps at 4 than I was at 3.7, haha
<Azelphur> weird :D
<Seeker`> give it time :P
<Seeker`> It takes a few hours to be sure if it is reasonably stable
<Azelphur> 63.5C *yawn*
<Azelphur> pretty much the same temp I got at 3ghz
<Azelphur> my cooling system just doesn't care, haha
<Seeker`> I'm getting 45C atm
<Seeker`> but it has throttled itself back to 2.4ghz atm
<Seeker`> under load I don't usually see above 60
<Azelphur> Seeker`, yea, I'm chilling out at 63
<Azelphur> Seeker`, if your watching the stream I can show you the cooling setup? :)
<Seeker`> i'm not watching atm
<Azelphur> Seeker`: only got it to 4ghz, couldn't get the 4.5ghz settings right, gonna try again tomorrow maybe :)
<Seeker`> try for something between the two
<Seeker`> 4.2 might be doable
<Azelphur> yea, tomorrow I'll probably start with that
<ball> 4 GHz is a practical reality on a POWER chip...and they're computationally stronger than x86.
<ball> ...not the kind of thing you find in a PC though.
<ball> Some POWER chips routinely ran at 5 GHz
<Azelphur> POWER?
 * ball nods
<ball> POWER6, POWER7 etc.
<Azelphur> :P
<Seeker`> 4GHz is a practical reality on modern intels too
<Seeker`> and clock speed isn't directly equal to performance
<ball> You're right about performance per MHz varying between chips and architectures
<ball> POWER7 is a monster though.
 * ball goes back to his kernel build
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone!
<popey> lo
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> Apparently ctrl+r doesn't do reverse lookup in xchat
<danfish> ahoy hoy saveloys!
<popey> mmmmm saveloy
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<czajkowski> listadmin is my fav command
<czajkowski> makes my life easier
<czajkowski> sad
<danfish> czajkowski: you need to get out more ;)
<czajkowski> heading to Nokia in a wee bit
<czajkowski> does that count
<danfish> absolutely :) LUG meeting I presume?
<danfish> hmm - to cancel dropbox account or not - http://bit.ly/kB8RB6
<ging> normally when people tell me i need to get out more lug meeting are the exact oposite of what they mean by getting out
<popey> danfish: i uninstalled it last night
<danfish> popey: I think I'll be doing the same and having a look at spideroak
<daubers> Oh dear
<danfish> daubers: please to be explaining?
<daubers> danfish: Getting rid of dropbox is a bit of a pain
 * daubers ponders setting up some kind of webdav syncy thing
<danfish> daubers: my thoughts as well - the only problem for me is that webdav on XP (at work) sucks
<daubers> \o/ Don't deal with XP anymore
<daubers> Pondering forking out to upgrade the missus' laptop to Win 7 so I can banish the XP demon forever
<danfish> she won't go for ubuntu?
<daubers> danfish: Uni stuff requires here to use MS Office
<daubers> s/here/her
<daubers> danfish: She's running maverick on her eeepc mind
<daubers> danfish: Also, Civ 4 et al won't run on Ubuntu
 * daubers may be forced back into Windows by OU stuff that starts in October
<danfish> why do our uni's which are supposed to be promoting academic endevour and freedom, insist on students running proprietary dross?
<daubers> Maybe not!
<daubers> "This course makes use of the optional Google Apps for Education account provided to all Open University students."
<danfish> that's not too shoddy
<daubers> also "You will need internet access and a computer. If you have purchased a new Windows computer since 2005 or an Apple Mac (OS X 10.4 or later) or Linux computer, it should meet your course computing requirements."
<daubers> "or Linux computer" \o/
<danfish> \o/ what course are you doing?
<daubers> http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/tu100.htm
<danfish> that looks good, but I suspect you could graduate today :)
<daubers> danfish: Maybe, but I suspect there's lots of bits I don't know I don't know :) Which is the point of doing it
<daubers> danfish: Also.... I now need an android device so I can play with the android arduino things :)
<danfish> android@home - very exciting that they chose arduino :)
<danfish> daubers: nearer the time we should have a think about an oggcamp session
<dutchie> daubers: i have an old san francisco and pulse lying around not doing anything...
<dutchie> wonder how many people are getting confused by all of us having 7 letters and starting with d
<danfish> hah - didn't notice that
<dutchie> wonder whether it would be a good idea to upgrade my laptop to ubuntu 11.04 today
<daubers> dutchie: Ooooooooh
<dutchie> daubers: they are a bit battered, but fully operational iirc
<daubers> can I steal one?
<dutchie> oh, the sf is a bit more broken
<dutchie> it doesn't recognise an sd card
<dutchie> i think the pulse is ok
<dutchie> you are welcome to have it for postage+beer or whatever
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> How about postage + an original pre?
<dutchie> deal
<dutchie> it would appear to be network locked
<daubers> To?
<dutchie> t-mob, one would assume
<daubers> Okies. I can probably get around that
<dutchie> shall i clear off data and send it on monday then?
<daubers> Yes please!
<davmor2> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<ali1234> adk requires android 3.1 or 2.3.4
<ali1234> before you all rush out and buy second hand android phones
<Guest28127> hi guys, can any one help me with this issue? i am trying to install fglrx on ubuntu 10.10. its giving me an error message, the detaisl are here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/782424
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 782424 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "unable to install fglrx driver" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hi folks
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> I have lots of paperwork to do today, I wish some institutions accepted electronic submissions.
<hamitron> dwatkins: either or would be nice, yes
<hamitron> :)
<dwatkins> yeah, hamitron
<dwatkins> I had to go to the DVLA office because the form got lost.
<dwatkins> correction: one form was lost in the post, the other form went missing
<hamitron> I love electronic services to make life easier/quicker, but I also like the manual method as backup
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> agreed, hamitron
<selinuxium> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o selinuxium
<selinuxium> hey MartijnVdS  :)
 * MartijnVdS listens to: http://uk.7digital.com/artists/headless-heroes/
<MartijnVdS> I have them all on vinyl \o/
<selinuxium> they sound cool  :)
<MartijnVdS> she has a beautiful voice
<Guest57386> hi guys, i am not able to install fglrx on ubuntu 10.10 64 bit, can any one help please
<selinuxium> Hmm... just bought a hdmi cable for the laptop... under Natty I can't find the screen switcher app.... :/
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: Top right (power) -> System settings
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, Cheers! didn't know that one!
<MartijnVdS> It's not very obvious
<MartijnVdS> you could search for the individual bits using the Unity thing
<selinuxium> Plugged the hdmi cable in but it is not showing in monitors...
<MartijnVdS> which card?
<selinuxium> one mo..
<selinuxium> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 9488
<selinuxium> ?
<MartijnVdS> And which driver are you using? The fglrx one?
<selinuxium> not sure..
<MartijnVdS> Because that one's a bit poo :)
<MartijnVdS> well it has faster 3D, but bad support for multi-screen etc.
<selinuxium> oh..
 * MartijnVdS has to go now, sorry
<MartijnVdS> !fglrx
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<selinuxium> ttfn MartijnVdS
<selinuxium> CHeers
<Seeker`> hihi
<hcfd> Am I the only one experiencing trouble listing items on eBay using Ubuntu and chromium?
<kvarley> hcfd: Have you tried a different browser to ensure it's chromiums fault and not something else?
<hcfd> I ended up running firefox in a Windows XP VM I had open at the time. Not pointing the finger at chromium necessarily but I don't recall ever having issues with firefox in Ubuntu.
<hcfd> I haven't gone to the trouble of isolating the cause/incompatibility.
<Azelphur> what's the package I need to install for ATI proprietary drivers?
 * Azelphur prods hamitron :p
<hamitron> fglrx?
<Azelphur> that should have been obvious :D
<hamitron> considering I am using vga connection, the image quality is great on it
<hamitron> half tempted to try dvi
<hamitron> :)
<selinuxium> hamitron, want to use my hdmi port... fglrx...
<hamitron> my monitor has no hdmi
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i just ordered 16gb of ram
<ali1234> so hopefully i won't run out any more
<need_help> hi
<need_help> i need some help plz
<need_help> ubuntu doesn"t detecte mu usb disk
<need_help> my*
<need_help> any solution?!
<dwatkins> did it work beforehand, need_help?
<need_help> its working on vista
<need_help> and dected when i use lsusb dommand
<need_help> command*
<dwatkins> does dmesg show anything after you connect it, need_help?
<dwatkins> I have to go, sorry.
<need_help> it's my first experience with ubuntu so i can't really follow
<need_help> but i can send u the repport
<need_help> any  solution  !!
<popey> need_help: #ubuntu is probably a better place to ask
<Guest40434> hi guys can some one help me to make my vga switcheooo work
<Azelphur> installed the latest ati driver from the .run file, now X won't start. http://paste.ubuntu.com/607410/ suggestions? :(
<ging> tell other people not to install the lastest ati driver from the .run file
<Azelphur> ging, besides that :D
<ali1234> why done that?
<Azelphur> ali1234, because I needed the latest drivers?
<ali1234> oh, ati
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> their old drivers never work on the new cards
<ali1234> i dunno why
<ali1234> actually i do, it's because ati sucks
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> they may suck but they also have faster integer math than nvidia :p
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ali1234, so any suggestions re my X not starting? :(
<ali1234> install windows
<Azelphur> noooooes
<Azelphur> other people have the 6990 working on Linux
<penguin42> Azelphur: Does the one that gets installed through Jockey not do it?
<gord> why would you need faster integer maths on a gpu?
<gord> just wondering
<penguin42> gord: A lot of the pixel level stuff doesn't have to be float
<Azelphur> penguin42, it does, it has horrible performance and kept on causing opencl errors :(
<gord> however, float is faster, so it is
<Azelphur> gord, bitcoin :D
<ali1234> gord: for bitcoin
<gord> ah
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> ati gpus completely blow away anything from nvidia for this, according to the benchmarks i read
<Azelphur> ^ exactly
<Azelphur> by about 2x
<gord> makes sense, but i'm still buying gpus for graphical performance, i'm silly like that ;)
<ali1234> supposedly using a ati gpu is actually cost effective in that the bitcoins are worth more than the video card and the electricity after about 6 months
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> of course once everyone figures this out it won't be any more
<penguin42> cost effective for what?
<gord> one day i'll be able to tell my kids "i was in the irc channel that hoarded all the bitcoins, causing the great bitcoin wars of 2020"
<penguin42> gord: And they'll say 'Daddy - what was irc ?'
<gord> i'm fairly sure irc will outlive us all
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> it may do, it might be we'll talk of it in fondness in the way grey beards of today speak fondly of fidonet
<Azelphur> what about my X not starting though? :(
<Azelphur> I need my X to do that starting thing.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Remove that driver, nuke your X config, get back to teh open source driver working and then throw jockey at it to put the ubuntu supported package in
<ali1234> fidonet is a network, irc is a protocol
<Azelphur> penguin42, open driver doesn't support my card
<Azelphur> and the ubuntu supported package is extremely slow
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure that was true back 20 years ago - yes it was a network, but I think most of the internode protocols it used were developed on the back of it
<Azelphur> it can't even do compiz cube properly
<Azelphur> on a 6990 xD
<Azelphur> with jockey driver, my 8800GT performs better than my 6990
<hamitron> I'd wait till you get it working, before judging
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hamitron, not judging?
<hamitron> comparing I mean
<Azelphur> hamitron, I'm not comparing, read the rest of the conversation.
 * penguin42 reads about Bitcoin
<Azelphur> nobody seems to want to help me get X running on the latest ATI driver :(
<hamitron> I'd install another OS alongside, so you can try things and risk messing things
<hamitron> then try all the latest stuff from AMD
<Azelphur> I've already installed all the latest stuff from AMD XD
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> I can risk messing things I have separate /home
<hamitron> but I mean on a clean system, and a supported OS
<hamitron> then you can rule out hardware problems
<Azelphur> I doubt a hardware problem makes the driver not work :p
<Azelphur> on day 1 xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: So that log you posted is a seg in the drvier you got - either it doesn't like the version of the X server it's used against or it's just buggy
<penguin42> Azelphur: Being a closed driver there is nothing that can be done
<Azelphur> I see
<hamitron> !info xorg
<lubotu3> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.6+4ubuntu3 (natty), package size 1 kB, installed size 44 kB
<hamitron> according to the release notes, the driver should work on Xorg 7.6
<hamitron> the latest anyway
<ali1234> from log: X.Org X Server 1.10.1, module = compiled for 1.4.99.906, module version = 8.84.60
<ali1234> so basically looks like you need 1.5
<ali1234> i find it interesting that the crash involves pthreads somehow
<Azelphur> ali1234, 1.5 what?
<ali1234> xorg
<Azelphur> isn't xorg at 7.6 now?
<ali1234> abi version
<hamitron> xserver?
<hamitron> !info xserver
<lubotu3> Package xserver does not exist in natty
<Azelphur> ali1234, would that be in xorg edgers?
<ali1234> no probably not, it's an old version
<hamitron> couldn't building it from the .sh script fix it all?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> what exactly do you get in the .bin file?
<Azelphur> .bin file?
<ali1234> yeah you said you downloaded a bin file?
<Azelphur> the amd drivers? they are .run :p
<ali1234> oh. well, same thing
<Azelphur> I don't know exactly what's in them though
<hamitron> it has a nice gui to build ubuntu packages
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I was reasonably impressed with it
<ali1234> tbh it looks like all the modules are right
<ali1234> i suspect something nasty is going on with the dual gpu and threads
<Azelphur> \o/
<penguin42> Is confused by how bitcoin privacy - if the ID of each transaction is public and the ID is what you identifiy yourself as then can't you effectively collect a mapping that lets you work who is who?
<Azelphur> ali1234, edgers seems to package fglrx, so maybe the solution is to just go onto the edgers repo
<ali1234> penguin42: no, you can make as many public ids as you want
<ali1234> Azelphur: perhaps... edgers never worked for me though
 * penguin42 runs edgers open drivers on ---> machine
<Guest40434> ali1234, could u give me some hints about how to make my ATI/intel switchable graphics make work on ubuntu 10.10 please
<ali1234> Guest40434: no, no idea
<Azelphur> ali1234, haha, I'm already on edgers for issues I had with my gtx 570
<Azelphur> fun \o/
<ali1234> that may be the problem then
 * Azelphur ppa-purges it
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you try to load unity when starting X?
<Azelphur> nah I'm using classic
<penguin42> that error looks pretty early on in the X server
<ali1234> according to some forum i just read, manually specifying busid can help
<Azelphur> I see :p
<ali1234> it also looks like it does appear as two cards on pci
<Azelphur> yea, the 6990 does I think
<ali1234> so it could be that manual busid makes it only use one of the gpus, avoiding the thread issue
<Azelphur> good scheme
<ali1234> (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fglrx
<ali1234> sounds bad
<Azelphur> bitcoin miners actually see it as 2 separate GPUs, have to run 2 minors
<Azelphur> miners*
<ali1234> lol minors
<RaycisCharles> Does anybody prefer Unity (its current implementation) over Gnome 3?
<Azelphur> haha :D
<ali1234> RaycisCharles: yes me
<hamitron> RaycisCharles: yes
<Azelphur> ali1234, interestingly when I did run the 2 miners after a while the miner on the first card would spam errors about unexpected opencl behaviour
<Azelphur> and chant "hardware problem?" at me :(
<ali1234> on the ati card?
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> so you had it working before?
<Azelphur> on the really old natty drivers yea
<ali1234> why not just use that?
<Azelphur> really bad performance + errorspam = time to upgrade
<ali1234> i highly doubt it makes a difference for opencl
<Azelphur> I was hoping to use it as a desktop card too
<ali1234> i would put it in a old motherboard and throw it in a cupboard until it's paid for itself
<ali1234> maybe by the the drivers work properly
<hamitron> ATI Catalystâ¢ 11.4 Update Driver (8.841) are needed for the SDK
<hamitron> for reference
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> ali1234, depending on profitability I may build a dedicated miner
 * hamitron grabs Azelphur's tongue
<ali1234> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?24303-Common-theme-lately-fglrx-segfault
<ali1234> ^ look familiar?
<Azelphur> ali1234, very :)
<ali1234> did you reboot after switching driver?
 * Azelphur is letting disk check complete since I havn't done one in a while :p
<Azelphur> yes
<ali1234> seeing more forum posts suggesting it's a 64 bit problem
<Azelphur> ali1234, busid is already set, so no dice :(
<Azelphur> gah, 64bit problem :(
<Azelphur> ali1234, is there any way for me to load the driver at the command line without X running?
<ali1234> no?
<Azelphur> the miners don't seem to see the card unless X is running
<ali1234> not possible
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> not until we get wayland drivers anyway
<Azelphur> that's weird, would have thought you could run opencl without a GUI
<Azelphur> seems like the sort of thing people would want to do
<ali1234> not with proprietary drivers
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> so there's three things to try
<Azelphur> I only counted 1? o.O
<ali1234> well you need to make sure you have all the right kernel modules and stuff
<Azelphur> I might just try the 11.3 driver see if that fixes it
<ali1234> worth a try
<RaycisCharles> Is there a way to introduce an App Store style window of authentication for installing packages?
<RaycisCharles> I'd like to enter a password and not have to re-enter for each subsequent software install for the next 15 minutes or so.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: Try something like gksudo synaptic &
<RaycisCharles> Eh?
<Azelphur> ali1234, done a fresh install of 32bit \o/
<ali1234> does it work?
<Azelphur> same issue with the miner though :(
<ali1234> is it faster?
<Azelphur> I havn't updated the graphics driver yet
<Azelphur> just the jockey version, so slowness and miner errors
<Azelphur> ali1234, what's the recommended way to install the latest driver?
<Azelphur> everyone shouted at me for using the .run :P
<ali1234> use jockey
<Azelphur> I have used jockey, results are miner errors and slowness?
<Azelphur> the version of the driver in jockey isn't the newest I think?
<Azelphur> the driver seems to have 2 different version numbers just to make life so much easier.
<Azelphur> yea, the jockey version is old
<Azelphur> I think I can make it build packages though o.O
<hamitron> the GUI is simple
<Azelphur> yep, packages built \o/
<hamitron> dvd-ram disks are ace
<hamitron> why have I not used them before? ;/
<gord> why would you?
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> the got a fancy pattern on them?
<hamitron> they*
<hamitron> :D
<gord> ;) just don't see the use myself
<hamitron> like a portable filesystem
<hamitron> at least, I get that impression
<gord> riiight, so in a world of cheep usb pen drives, how is that useful?
<hamitron> I'm always lacking usb ports tbh
<Azelphur> riiiight, so in a world of cheap usb hubs, how is that a problem?
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> hubs are a pain
<gord> i'm lacking actual dvd drive readers more than usb ports :)
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> I actually removed my DVD drive a month or so again
<Azelphur> useless power drain was useless
<ali1234> i nearly bought a bluray burner earlier
<ali1234> decided not to though
<hamitron> I am tempted with bluray now
<gord> i was in windows the other day and i clicked on D: by accident i guess, the dvd drive popped out, scared the crap out of me
<hamitron> prices are lower
<ali1234> 128GB per disc, what can possibly go wrong?
<hamitron> 128Gb?
<ali1234> on BDXL
<ali1234> you can't buy the discs outside japan yet
<hamitron> oh
<ali1234> but the writer is Â£100
<hamitron> I was looking at 50Gb RW ones
<hamitron> :)
<gord> you can't use BDXL in regular bluray drives either
<ali1234> who cares?
<Azelphur> ali1234, that's interesting, I just got the hardware problem spam from the second card this time
<gord> people who want to use the disks in regular bluray drives i would assume
<ali1234> you can't use them in dvd players or cdrom drives either
<penguin42> how random write are those drives?
<ali1234> anyway i decided against it
<hamitron> 128Gb would be very useful
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I felt 50Gb was doable, but still hard work
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> dvd-ram is slow
<hamitron> didn't realise
<ali1234> all optical media is slow for writing
<hamitron> but at least buying these 5 dvd-ram for 3 quid, saved me 5 quid delivery
<oly> hi, anyone on here got any recommendations on a sub Â£300 pound video camera that works nicely with linux ?
<hamitron> these feel slow by dvd writing standards
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> well yes
<ali1234> rewritable is always slower as well
<hamitron> by those too
<hamitron> 2Gb is taking 30 mins
<hamitron> I suppose I don't normally watch them either :D
<popey> oly: kodak sx3
<hamitron> gah
<hamitron> ali1234: gonna buy another hdd
<hamitron> cba with this
<popey> oly: i have a zi8 but i think that's discontinued, the sx3 is the next one up
<oly> cheers popey will check it out
<oly> we where thinking of a sony one but i know what sony are like with file formats :)
<popey> i can send you a sample file from my zi8 if that helps?
<oly> maybe, i cant actually find the sx3 i can find the zi8 for about Â£80
<oly> girlfriend wants it to video ferrets mainly so needs to hand fast movement well
<popey> sorry, zx3
<popey> it does 60fps 720p
<popey> Anyone on 11.04 with Unity fancy confirming bug 782701 please?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 782701 in dash (Ubuntu) "Cant paste commands in the dash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782701
<oly> ah yeah i can found that a sample may be good, got a bit more i can spend than that,
<oly> my first thought though is it looks like a phone video camera :p ie has a small lens and does nto let in much light
<popey> yeah, thats true
<popey> its not great in low light
<oly> popey, i get something different it pastes but the result is unicode :p
<oly> so i get a box with the usual wierd box with numbers in it
<oly> could
<oly> have you got a page your copying from ?
<oly> could be its copying it in the pages encoding and not translating perhaps ?
<selinuxium> hi all
<selinuxium> !fglrx
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<popey> oly: I'm copying from a terminal
<oly> huh that actually does the same
<oly> ls -la copied from a terminal results in square box 0016
<bennie123> hey all
<selinuxium> Any natty hdmi users out there?  I cant even seem to get my HDMI to work at all... :/
<bigcalm> popey: on phone with 150. Initial response is 'NO'. Said you had it, why can't I? They are checking...
<bigcalm> popey: now they don't have the information to hand and will need to give me a call back within the next 2 hours. Grrr. Why do I get the feeling I'm about to lose my discount?
<hamitron> pizza!
<helpme> hello! can someone help me please? i am a complete begginer to ubuntu. i have the 10.10(maverick) live cd. i installed it and upgraded it to 11.04 (natty). i have HP vs 17e monitor which supports resolution upto 1280X1024 Pixels only. after i upgraded, the computer restarted and i got an error saying- " Change Resoultion settings to 1280X1024, input out of range" i guess the default resoultion of natty is higher than my monitor capa
<helpme> of the monitor to fix this
<helpme> please help!
<popey> bigcalm: :(
<popey> bigcalm: or worse, you don't get it and I get my discount revoked :)
<popey> which is worse :)
<hamitron> hehe
<bigcalm> popey: I'm wondering if you forgot to add a question mark to your last line :P
<bigcalm> popey: I haven't given your name (yet)
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/day/?x=-846&y=64&z=398&zoom=-1
<popey> thats new!
<popey> Just stumbled upon it
<popey> looks like the great wall of china
<popey> bigcalm: i can give you the name of the person i have dealt with via email if that helps?
<popey> she is very good, will help during work hours
<bigcalm> Cheers :)
<popey> ping me on monday for it
<popey> i dont have it to hand
<bigcalm> Okie
<bigcalm> That looks like a wall I started in a single player map
<bigcalm> Are the black blocks obsidian?
<popey> dunno i suspect just not known by the mapping software
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I was a lot of black blocks in the castle as well
<ali1234> could be sandstone
<popey> the pyramid is sandstone though, that shows up
<ali1234> cobble halftiles maybe?
<popey> i should have looked when I was there
<popey> wonder who made it
<popey> not you then? :)
<ali1234> no
<bigcalm> Humm. Natty doesn't tell me when I have capslock activated. Previous versions did
<bigcalm> For some reason, Dell decided that indicator lights were old fashioned when they built my laptop
<MartijnVdS> it does in the screensaver
<MartijnVdS> do you mean gdm?
<Seeker`> popey: thats my wall
<popey> heh
<Seeker`> black blocks are stone steps
<popey> ahh
<Seeker`> popey: you ever use the /give command?
<popey> yeah
<popey> alan@hatar:/home/minecraft/minecraft$ grep give server.log | grep -ic cjo20
<popey> 188
<Seeker`> :D:D
<popey> popey = 230
<bigcalm> Me?
<popey> 110
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> ali1234: =53
<bigcalm> A lot of that 110 was when we were building the 1st set of minecart tracks
<popey> alan@hatar:/home/minecraft/minecraft$ grep give server.log | grep bigcalm | grep -ic 66
<bigcalm> Recently I've just got bored and have been blowing up large plots of sand with tnt :(
<popey> 64
<popey> indeed!
<popey> i love the massive castle
<popey> no idea whose it is
<bigcalm> It is indeed cool
<Seeker`> JGJones
<popey> oh is it?
<Seeker`> thats what he said
<Seeker`> bah, obsidian is a pain
<popey> Bah!
<popey> Just looked at facebook momentarily and saw a Who spoiler
 * popey goes to make pimms and pizza
<Seeker`> popey: I think it was a very good episode
<Seeker`> wont say anything more than that though
<hamitron> I still not watched last weeks
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> got them both recorded
<bigcalm> So far disapointed with the new series of dw. Haven't seen today's ep just yet though
<ali1234> i thought it was good. haven't watched todays yet tho
<bigcalm> Waiting for VM to call me at 8pm before I do anything fun with my evening
<hamitron> the first 2 I've enjoyed
<popey> I probably wont get to watch it until after Eurovision
<ali1234> last series felt like an annoying kids show
<hamitron> but I do feel they are kinda more crazy than normal :)
<ali1234> this series has some proper drama in it
<popey> it is a kids show :)
<ali1234> it should be more than a kids show
<popey> <- kid
<hamitron> it is?
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> it is
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> I dont care though, I enjoy it
<ali1234> just cos it's for kids doesn't mean it has to be morkish and trite
<bigcalm> Torch Wood was the 'grown ups' version of dw
<popey> The Doctor Who Podcast is quite good
<popey> they're knowledgeable about the whole history/canon of Who
<bigcalm> Will get around to listening to it at some point
<ali1234> torchwood is just a kids show with swearing and nudity, makes no sense
<hamitron> I just feel this new series is maybe too "tough" for a new viewer to get into
<popey> yeah, never got on with Torchwood
<bigcalm> Too welsh?
<bigcalm> >:D
<popey> but then I dont really like anything RTD has ever done
<ali1234> just cos it's for adults doesn't mean it has to be vulgar
<popey> too "gay" I think
<bigcalm> Haha
<hamitron> RTD?
<popey> Russell T Davis
<MartijnVdS> I love the bad guy's name is nice this week :) </spoiler>
<bigcalm> I'm passing time by watching all of ZeroPunctuation's videos from day 0. Slagging of games is fun
 * bigcalm leaves here until dw has been watched
<bigcalm> :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: zeropunctuation \o/
<popey> yeah, me too
<popey> ttfn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pD0inuVLUs
<Myrtti> YAYYYYY Eurovision song contest \o/
<bigcalm> Who is hosting it?
<Myrtti> Germany
<gord> i couldn't get the regular troupe of people i get together to watch eurovision with together :(
<Myrtti> Finnish BC is displaying some of the tweets with the finnish eurovision hashtag on teletext subtitles :-D
 * oimon is a eurovision widow tonight
<jibadeeha> eurovision is cool
<hamitron> o.O
<wintellect> Denmark are the best so far
<oimon> in other news..anyone read this? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/14/imac_hard_drive_replacement_woes/
<oimon> anyone don't wanna watch eurovision, bbc click is just coming on now
<gord> anyone that wants to customise a laptop, really isn't buying a mac anyway
<penguin42> gord: Replacing drives isn't unusual though
<gord> oh a mac it is...
<oimon> i wonder how apple open the stuff up without destroying : i was given an ibook with dodgy mobo (couldn't boot) - i couldn't boot it to run DBAN before ebaying it, so i had to remove the hard drive. i ended up destroying my torx drivers and the whole machine. and this is from someone with 15 years experience of PC hardware
<MartijnVdS> Lesson: don't buy apple, or look up the service manual on apple.com first
<gord> wow... have you guys seen what amarok looks like these days? i mean... erm... which bit is the bit that plays my music? http://amarok.kde.org/files/Amarok2.4.1.png
<MartijnVdS> gord: I saw another image of it with overlapping text and mismatched colours
<gord> i promise to stop complaining about banshee, after trying out the windows music players just to play music whilst i play video games. and seing amarok? we have it gooooooooooooooooooooooodd
<oimon> gord: it's hideous IMO, i recently switched to clementine from banshee, it's what amarok should have been
<gord> ah, that looks more like what i remember amarok was
<gord> although, bit too much like a spreadsheet for me
<MartijnVdS> I was never a KDE user, so I don't know old-Amarok
<oimon> it was great - but in clementine , it lives on
<MartijnVdS> I actually don't mind banshee
<oimon> i like the option of having file tree view
<MartijnVdS> except for the crashing it sometimes does
<oimon> the cover manager on clementine is fantastic too
<oimon> (banshee doesn't explain why it doesn't find the covers)
<oimon> wow..http://pixlr.com/editor/
<gord> banshee is fine, its just that it could be so much greater if its video support actually worked, and if its queuing stuff made any sense whatsoever
<jibadeeha> i still like rhythmbox
<gord> right now i'll queue up a track thinking "Hey i really want to listen to this track but leave it in shuffle mode", then it plays that track, shuffles, plays that track again... shuffle. plays that track >:( and on and on
<yothsoggoth> banshee seemed to lag every time I skipped a song when shuffle was on
<AlanBell> where did per-application audio output selection go?
<BigRedS> Oooh, that might be another natty feature
<AlanBell> want banshee to use the speakers and skype/mumble to use the polycom communicator
<AlanBell> I can see per-application volume settings, but there used to be a button dropdown thing to choose output I think
<AlanBell> works great if I install pavucontrol
<lazarus_> hi
<BigRedS> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-15
<kvarley> how can I find the ip of a samba share in nautilus?
<kvarley> I have the host and share open in nautilus
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> what is Ubiquity installer ? is it LiveCD ?
<Photon_> hey guys
<Photon_> Could someone help me with a problem
<Photon_> I'm having a problem with Ubuntu 10.10. It isn't recognizing my monitor and I'm unable to change the screen resolution
<Photon_> My chipset is i845g
<Photon_> please
<Photon_> somebody help
<Photon_> guys
<Photon_> please
<HazRPG> \o
<Photon_> hellooooo
<HazRPG> howdy
<Photon_> could you please help me
<HazRPG> how many ports on your monitor?
<Photon_> 1
<HazRPG> sorry i meant your graphics card ^_^
<HazRPG> if its got more than one, try the other one
<Photon_> It is onboard and it has only 1 port i guess
<HazRPG> ah
<Photon_> Im new to Ubuntu
<Photon_> :(
<HazRPG> did the liveCD run fine?
<HazRPG> I've been using ubuntu for a while, but well i wouldn't say I was a power user when it comes to fault finding really, but i try my best
<Photon_> yeah, it was perfect. But when I installed it, it is stuck at 1920X1080. No other option is show and Refresh rate is show '0'
<Photon_> I want to change it to 1280X720
<HazRPG> how'd ya get that info?
<Photon_> what info?
<HazRPG> that it was stuck at 1920x1080
<Photon_> I went to System->Preferences->Monitors
<Photon_> it says monitor isn't detected
<HazRPG> hmm, if the monitor isn't detected, how are you being able to do that is my question
<Photon_> It is showing that way, even now im using Ubuntu at 1920X1080. The dialog box says "Monitor: Not Detected" and in the list of display modes, there is only one option i.e, 1920x1080
<HazRPG> ahhh
<HazRPG> okay
<HazRPG> i'm with you
<HazRPG> so you can see, but you just can't change it
<HazRPG> right
<HazRPG> hold on
<Photon_> exactly
<HazRPG> could you paste xorg.conf file
<HazRPG> its found in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Photon_> there's nor such file in there :(
<HazRPG> what's in the X11 folder?
<Photon_> some files like "Xreset" "XsessionOptions" "Default Display manager"
<Photon_> "rgb.txt"
<Photon_> im using Ubuntu 10.10 by the way
<Photon_> there is a file "Xwrapper.config"
<HazRPG> hmm
<Photon_> do I have to make a Xorg.conf file or something manually?
<HazRPG> yeah we might have to
<Photon_> could you tutor me please
<HazRPG> right, first lets see if we can configure it automatically first
<HazRPG> you scared of the terminal?
<MartijnVdS> <Yoda> You will be. YOU WILL BE.
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone ;)
<HazRPG> because i want you to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Photon_> im a little familiar to it
<HazRPG> alright good, well try that command :)
<HazRPG> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Photon_> it says dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: morning dude :) - I must say the internet here is slow T___T i'm typing faster than my terminal can show what it is i've typed xD
<Photon_> must be runs a root
<HazRPG> Photon_: ah run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Photon_> *run
<HazRPG> then enter your password :)
<HazRPG> if stuff asks for root, just put sudo in front :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Light-speed delays eh? Being so far away and all :)
<Photon_> yeah, done. Nothing happened :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe indeed
<HazRPG> Photon_: hmm, did it not show anything?
<HazRPG> Photon_: have a look to see if a file was made in /etc/X11/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, even on holiday I'm still trying to help people out xD
<HazRPG> bah
<Photon_> here's what is seen in my terminal: administrator@ubuntu:/etc/X11$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg [sudo] password for administrator:  administrator@ubuntu:/etc/X11$
<HazRPG> Photon_: check the folder to see if it made an xorg.conf file :)
<Photon_> no :( :(
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Any typing courses available in Ubuntu 10.10 ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you any good with xorg?
<MartijnVdS> a little
<MartijnVdS> Last time I needed to configure it, I copied the failsafe xorg.conf and edited it by hand
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apparently Photon_ doesn't have an xorg.conf file and his chipset is i846g (can't detect monitor using graphical tools to change resolution)
<MartijnVdS> I had one of those just yesterday :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ubuntu 10.10
<HazRPG> kaushal: there's TuxType
<HazRPG> kaushal: might be called TuxTyping
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: Can you restart in recovery mode, then select the option to "fix X"?
<HazRPG> kaushal: only one I really know, but its pretty good :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, didn't think of that :)
<Photon_> MartijnnVds: how do I do that? I'm a Novice :(
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: Hold Shift while the computer is starting
<kaushal> HazRPG: Thanks
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: then select the "Recovery mode" option
<Photon_> after that?
<Photon_> then
<MartijnVdS> then it'll give you a menu with a few options (root, rescue, etc.)
<HazRPG> kaushal: no problem, if the dictionaries inside it aren't to your liking, i think you can create (or possibly download from somewhere) your own
<MartijnVdS> you can choose to fix X from there
<HazRPG> kaushal: but it does come with several different ones
<Photon_> does it have a GUI?
<Photon_> I don't know even a single command to use with the terminal
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: it's a text-mode menu (controlled with arrows and enter key)
<HazRPG> Photon_: it'll be a text-based GUI iirc
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: and it might open up a basic graphical environment
<Photon_> what is goin to happen after I select fix X?
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: That depends on whether it _can_ actually fix X
<MartijnVdS> but you should end up either on the login screen, or back on the recovery menu
<MartijnVdS> If (1), just log in
<MartijnVdS> if (2), select "restart"
<Photon_> I'll try it now
<MartijnVdS> good luck :)
<Photon_> I'll be right back
<Photon_> :)
<Photon_> hey
<Photon_> one more thing
<Photon_> I have a an XP along side it
<MartijnVdS> it won't touch that
<Photon_> should I hold shift after I selct Ubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> No, if you have XP you don't have to hold shift at all
<MartijnVdS> there should be 2 Ubuntu options (at least)
<MartijnVdS> 1 "normal" one, and one "Rescue mode" one
<Photon_> yeah, theres one i remeber
<Photon_> i brb :)
<Photon_> hey guys
<Photon_> I tried it
<Photon_> It showed "Ubuntu is running in a low graphics mode. Your hardware is not detected by Ubuntu. You have to reconfigure it yourself"
<MartijnVdS> Hmm
<Photon_> I tried clicking "Create a new configuration" but nothing happens
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: did it leave an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?
<MartijnVdS> (or an /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe)
<Photon_> in the troubleshoot menu, there was something like Xorg Server file
<Photon_> lemme see
<Photon_> yes!
<Photon_> it left a file named:
<Photon_> xorg.conf.failsafe
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: if you copy that, to xorg.conf
<Photon_> here's what is written in it
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: and then edit it, and add a line saying:
<Photon_> Section "Device" 	Identifier	"Configured Video Device" 	Driver		"fbdev" EndSection  Section "Monitor" 	Identifier	"Configured Monitor" EndSection  Section "Screen" 	Identifier	"Default Screen" 	Monitor		"Configured Monitor" 	Device		"Configured Video Device" EndSection
<MartijnVdS> Between "Section "Device"" and "EndSection", add a new line saying:
<MartijnVdS> *looking up"
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<HazRPG> Photon_: dont paste in here :P
<HazRPG> Photon_: if you want to paste stuff, paste them into paste.ubuntu.com
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: The line should be: Driver "intel"
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: Replace "fbdev" with "intel" :)
<Photon_> HazRPG: sorry
<Photon_> :)
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: then save (as /etc/X11/xorg.conf) and restart
<Photon_> the file seems uneditabl
<Photon_> e
<MartijnVdS> Photon_: which command are you trying?
<Photon_> you mean, editor?
<HazRPG> do this: sudo cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<MartijnVdS> sort of
<Photon_> gedit
<MartijnVdS> try gksudo gedit
<HazRPG> then do: gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<HazRPG> bah, lag
<HazRPG> stupid 3g internet is slow here
<Photon_> perfect!
<Photon_> I can edit it
<Photon_> ^_^
<Photon_> yeah
<Photon_> I replaced fbdev with intel
<Photon_> leave the rest intact?
<Photon_> i will restart and try, i brb guys
<Photon_> WOW!
<Photon_> It worked
<Photon_> !
<Photon_> my monitor's now detected
<Photon_> and it is showing all the modes!
<Photon_> Guys! Thank you so much!
<Photon_> HazRPG and MartijnVds, thank you guys! I love you! :D
<HazRPG> Photon_: heh no problem dude
<Photon_> ^_^
<HazRPG> Photon_: glad its call working now
<Photon_> cool :)
<Photon_> I use Intel Extreme Graphics accelrator on XP. There is no need of it in Ubuntu right?
<MartijnVdS> what is it?
<Photon_> It is a graphics driver I use in windows XP
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu has just the one driver per chipset
<MartijnVdS> (well two for some, but one is open source/free software, the other one is proprietary)
<Photon_> how can I run windows applications here?
<Photon_> I heard, we use some software called Wine?
<MartijnVdS> you can use wine, but lots of programs won't work 100%
<Photon_> I have one more problem, Video isn't shown when I play a file, but only Audio. I'm using Vlc. Is there a solution?
<MartijnVdS> no video at all?
<Photon_> no video, but the player resizes to the video's dimensions. Audio is working fine
<Photon_> MartijnVds, there?
<daubers> Morning
<andres_kain> Hello world, a quick question?
<andres_kain> how can I get from the comand line the name of the windows that are open? or programs that are running?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<andres_kain> now I'm running terminal, firefox, and epifany for example. How do I get the treminal to say this? ~$ps is too much
<andres_kain> good morning
<brobostigon> good morning andres_kain
<andres_kain> I tried ~$ps  -d -u andres is also too much but it is a little better
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<andres_kain> OK maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. how do I get gnome to tell me through the terminal the windows I'm working with?
<popey> andres_kain: whats the actual goal here?
<andres_kain> Hi thanks popey!
<andres_kain> well.. I'm ashamed to say a simple script at the end of my emails saying what i'm doing
<andres_kain> so now i'm running firefox, terminal and epifany
<andres_kain> I'd like the terminal to output that so that I could set it on my signature.
<MartijnVdS> andres_kain: xlsclients?
<MartijnVdS> that might be a bit too much though
<popey> ewww
<andres_kain> better!
<andres_kain> but a pity no man page!
<andres_kain> might have some sort of less or something
<andres_kain> upps
<andres_kain> missspelt
<andres_kain> yes man page
<MartijnVdS> popey: hm? :)
<popey> just sounds like an icky thing to put in your signature
<MartijnVdS> you might end up with "Firefox - Adult Video Website" in your signature
<popey> yeah, that too
<popey> and "Totem - Dodgy downloaded video (divx).mkv"
<andres_kain> haahahaaha yeah OK, will not be my default signature
<MartijnVdS> And don't forget: "Firefox - Amazon wishlist for your@girlfriend.com" (in email to your wife ;))
<MartijnVdS> (note: I'm so paranoid I used to not use last.fm because then people could see what I was listening to)
<andres_kain> good one. hum found xprop, nothing to do but intersting comand
<MartijnVdS> andres_kain: you might be able to get a list using libwnck
<MartijnVdS> no idea how to work that though
<andres_kain> sorry, i'm a bit newbie here: libwnck is not a command right?
<MartijnVdS> no, it's a library you can use to write a program that does what you want
<andres_kain> ah. OK. I'll write that down.
<MartijnVdS> check python-wnck -- it has an "examples" directory in /usr/share/doc/python-wnck/examples
<andres_kain> ok great, just might do some sed editing out of the xlsclients to remove machine name and applets... se how that goes
<andres_kain> Thank you guys really helpful!
<andres_kain> gotta go now! thanks again!
<Guest30343> hi guys i am using ubuntu 10.10 on a hp laptop which has got switchable graphcis with ATI hd 5000 series with intel. I have never been able to use it with VGA switcheroo because high perfomance never worked. do u need to make sure that 2 drivers are present simultaneously for VGA switcheroo to do its job?
<MartijnVdS> Have you tried 11.04?
<MartijnVdS> (I've never used vga-switcheroo)
<Guest30343> MartijnVdS, ubuntu 11.04 was a pain. it gave me a blank screen after the install
<Guest30343> i switched back to 10.10 as it is atleast working
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea then, sorry.
<brobostigon> weird, overnight something killed my webalizer stats.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: cron rotating the web server log?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that was going to be, my first port of call.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: looks lke something like it, start of the log, is just past 6am this morning.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that's rotation time
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there should be an old file as well, that contains entries up to that time
<MartijnVdS> usually .0 or .1 at the end
<brobostigon> let me look.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep,there is.
<popey> webalizer by default points to the old one, not teh current one
<brobostigon> popey: can i specify more than one log file for it to process?
<popey> for multiple websites or multiple files for one website
<brobostigon> multiple access.log's for a single site.
<popey> but there aren't multiple access logs though
<brobostigon> or do i modify apache's log file rotation.
<popey> there's one
<popey> what are you trying to achieve?
<brobostigon> i have, access.log and access.log.1
<popey> yes, access.log.1 is the one you point webalizer at
<popey> access.log is the current one, it becomes access.log.1 at 6am tomorrow
<brobostigon> so access.log gets added onto access.log.1,
<popey> no
<popey> access.log _becomes_ access.log.1
<popey> you'll eventually end up with lots of them
<popey> older ones will be gzipped
<MartijnVdS> access.log.1 gets gzipped as access.log.2.gz, then access.log gets moved to access.log.1, and a new, empty access.log is created
<brobostigon> wont you then only, always have a single  days worth od stats in webalizer, as that is all it picksup, ?
<popey> no
<popey> it keeps history db
<popey> and updates that with the contents of access.log.1
<brobostigon> ah, i see.make more sense now.
<brobostigon> ok, iwill check weblizer's .conf, and make sure it is pointed atthe right place.
<brobostigon> thank you popey and MartijnVdS. :)
<Guest84973> yo people!
<moreati> Afternoon. Inspired by (aka blatently copying) UUPCs quizzes I'm running a quiz/panel game for 2 local LUGs in August.
<popey> :)
<moreati> I have some ideas for rounds up at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/50f3i9iRoNkmdzK2gsyD/
<moreati> I'd love to hear any comments and suggestions
<moreati> As is probably evident, I'm a sucker for panel games
<moreati> *gameshows
<moreati> popey: My complements on the latest season btw. Very slick, and very entertaining
<popey> thats very kind of you to say, thanks
<popey> the live element puts a lot of pressure on
<moreati> it's not showing
<Nafallo> popey: my mirror changed httpd now. feel free to throw it back in the pool.
<Azelphur> pro annoying the neighbours. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/May%202011/VID_20110515_150217.m4v :D
<Azelphur> popey, just passed 810mhash/sec single device
<Azelphur> :)
<moreati> Azelphur: ah I wondered if that video was a mining rig
<Azelphur> teehee
<safiyyah> guys anyone know about bikes?
<safiyyah> i know nothing to do with ubuntu
<bigcalm> Hi peeps
<MartijnVdS> biggie calms
<Snomi> hi
<Snomi> any idea why my download speed on ubuntu would be half that of on windows
<Snomi> I am using wireless
<MartijnVdS> Snomi: 802.11n?
<MartijnVdS> Do you know which chipset?
<Snomi> IEEE 802.11abgn
<Snomi> MartijnVdS: ^
<MartijnVdS> that's the type.. is it Intel? I think the Intel driver has a bug with 802.11n networks, so that gets disabled.
<MartijnVdS> (on some chips)
<Snomi> it is intel
<Snomi> MartijnVdS: 'WiFi Link 5100
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's the one with the driver bug
<MartijnVdS> I think it might be fixed in the newest Ubuntu, but I'm not sure.
<Snomi> I have 11.04
<MartijnVdS> Then it's not fixed :|
<jpds> Should be.
<Snomi> I mean it works fine
<Snomi> and has done
<Snomi> just at half speed
<fujisan> MartijnVdS :< they finally did it
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: "they"? "it"?
<fujisan> oh nvm
<fujisan> ever since i spoke out about quasi racism in ubuntu-nl-offtopic certain members got really hostile with me and eventually banned me :/
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: then you can complain to the councils etc.
<fujisan> not really they actually didnt ban me after it last time and just let me chat there but the atmosphere is very hostile so i don't know why i should complain about it i mean i can't stop racism in the Netherlands it's growing and ubuntu-nl-offtopic is just one example of it
<fujisan> anyways end rant sorry it's not the place here
<fujisan> just needed to vent
<shauno> speaking of not the place for it .. netherlands .. y u no vote for us?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: vote? huh?
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> I have no shame - I'll admit I watched eurovision :p
 * hamitron takes the wee wee out of shauno
<jpds> shauno: https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/69515252647202816
<shauno> haha .. didn't see that one
<MartijnVdS> jpds: no corresponding tweet on https://twitter.com/#!/Koningin_NL .. hmmm :)
<fujisan> shauno vote for whom?
<fujisan> i chat in every english speaking channel without issues only in the dutch ones i get banned :(
<fujisan> that's no coincedence
<fujisan> and they got angry with me for talking to a turkey gentoo admin from gentoo-tr in there in English and because we talked about Turkey joining the EU
<fujisan> turkish*
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: note that this is not #ubuntu-rants
<MartijnVdS> (please)
<fujisan> ok Edwin
<fujisan> sorry
<Myrtti> meh :-/
<Pendulum> hiya Myrtti
<MartijnVdS> evening Myrtti
<Pendulum> Myrtti: did your package ever show up?
<Myrtti> Pendulum: it did, mum was ecstatic and I was given excemption from getting a Mothers Day pressie because of it :-D
<Myrtti> feels weird having time to have a peek at IRC
<Pendulum> Myrtti: wonderful!
<Myrtti> watching ice hockey atm, Sweden vs. Finland in IIHF World Championship final...
<MartijnVdS> the Canada of Europe :P
<Myrtti> atleast now I know that currently the IIHF has a deal with an internet broadcasting company and in the future I might have the possibility of buying the streaming package so I can watch these games in UK too
<Myrtti> whee
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Wouldn't satellite work?
<Myrtti> 3-1 to Finland :-D
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I haven't looked if any satellite carrier has these on schedule in UK
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: You could get any satellite dish, point it at the sat a Finnish sat provider uses it, register the card on a Finnish address and off you go
<MartijnVdS> I know people who do that with Dutch TV/sat when they live abroad
<Snomi> I fixed the issue by disabling n on the drivers
<Pendulum> Myrtti: sorry for disappearing. I'm really glad she liked it!
<Myrtti> no problem, Finland is just winning the Ice Hockey World Championship :-DDDDDDd
<Pendulum> ah, that explains the 'go finland' that one of my mates has been repeating on twitter
<Myrtti> whole country is going to have a hangover tomorrow
<Myrtti> fortunately we didn't get enough points in Eurovision yesterday
<Pendulum> heh
<Myrtti> if we had won that too, the whole month would have been wasted in a beer boggled mist
<andylockran> Wahey.
<andylockran> Happy Days
<Myrtti> the whole suburb is filled with screaming atm
<szymon_g> aloha
<ali1234> haha charlie brooker trolling on twitter "attack of the clones was better than return of the jedi"
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-07
<mattt> *yawn*
<mattt> up for heathrow run
<Jora> Hello.
<mattt> Jora: yoez
<hoover> good morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mattt> morning morning
<MooDoo> Rewatched the story of Lugradio last night, wonder how much it would take to persuade popey et al to do Ubuntu UK live :)
<MartijnVdS> UKradio Live
<MartijnVdS> well there's oggcamp
<MooDoo> yeah i'm guessing that's going to be it isn't it :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning Knightwise
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon  how are you today
<MooDoo> morning morning
<brobostigon> Knightwise: on the tired side, but ok. and you?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> MooDoo:  on the tired side, but ok. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: at work, thinking of doing something opensource related, don't know what though
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hmm, i am sure youi will find something. i am about to do a webkit build for haiku, managed to wpa2 working inside haiku yesterday, with a new wpa_supplicant build.
<MooDoo> sounds cool.
<brobostigon> will likely fail, but worth trying,
<directhex> LDAP address books are totally broken in ubuntu 12.04
<directhex> i'd recommend not upgrading, if you need that functionality in evo
<directhex> huh, possibly fixed by eds in precise-proposed
<directhex> which makes no sense - the precise-proposed change does not affect address book, only calendar
 * penguin42 drops a pin
<MooDoo> oi i'm sleeping
<MartijnVdS> WHAT?
<jacobw> ldap address books are broken by design
<jacobw> carddav is much better
<jacobw> thunderbird doesn't support carddav :(
<directhex> thunderbird is a basic mail client, with some toy addins to pretend it isn't
<directhex> i'm not deploying it in my company
<jacobw> what isn't a basic mail client?
<brobostigon> mutt ?
<directhex> evo is in the "office" section of thegnome 2 menu, not "internet" :p
<jacobw> are these not the same thing now?
<directhex> heh
<jjavaholic> #ubuntu
<MooDoo> jjavaholic: you missed of the /join? ;)
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> uds starts today
<bigcalm> On what should be a day off
<AlanBell> yeah, I miss a bank holiday
<bigcalm> Do you give yourself bank holidays normally?
<bigcalm> I say it should be a day off, yet here I am in the office :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't you also sleep there? :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Don't you just nominate another convenient day to replace it?
<MartijnVdS> he's at uds.. doesn't that count? :)
<penguin42> hmm that's neat - on my desktop I clicked on a link to an android app and it shows 'This app is compatible with your Orange ZTE Blade'
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: sometimes I wonder. Last night I was coding on the laptop in the sitting room until 1.45am. Hayley had long since gone to bed
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yay on-line android market :)
<MartijnVdS> or "play" as it's called now?
<bigcalm> I was surprised that it took so long to get a decent web interface
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's a pity - I liked the old play photo story viewer
<bigcalm> Grrrr
<bigcalm> Still geting crontab emails from logrotate
<bigcalm> Not a happy chappy
<MartijnVdS> disk full?
<bigcalm> Newp
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/973483/
<MartijnVdS> post-rotate script
<MartijnVdS> like.. restarting mysqld?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> It's whatever got installed :)
<christel> gordonjcp: thank you <3
 * bigcalm hugs christel silly
<bigcalm> Well, sillier
<MooDoo> christel, hello my love <3
<MartijnVdS> ctrl+shift+u 2665 <space>
<bigcalm> Oh, that's fund :)
<bigcalm> -d
<penguin42> hmm, now how long will it take us to learn Unicode?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Timer starts.. NOW
<penguin42> bah, the fonts don't seem to have the clock face characters
<penguin42> (01f551-67)
<MartijnVdS> that's because it's (a) unicode 6 and (b) screen eats Unicode 6 chars
<MartijnVdS> (also the emoticons)
<penguin42> there are different version of Unicode?
<MartijnVdS> Unicode gets upgrades every few years
<MartijnVdS> new characters, with associated rules ("is it a letter?" info, sort order, etc.)
<penguin42> other than sort order, which I can understand, what rules does something that just has to enter the characters need to know about?
<cliftonts> Hi everyone. Can anyone help me with a problem installing wine?
<MartijnVdS> What's the problem?
<cliftonts> I'm running precise and whatever version I try to install it drags wine1.4 down with it.
<MartijnVdS> sounds good
<cliftonts> The only version that works for me is wine1.2 though
<directhex> cliftonts, what version do you want?
<cliftonts> sudo apt-get install wine1.2
<cliftonts> The following extra packages will be installed:
<cliftonts>   wine-gecko1.4 wine1.4 wine1.4-common wine1.4-i386
<directhex> cliftonts, wine 1.2 is not in precise at all - the wine1.2 package is a metapackage which depends on wine 1.4
<penguin42> I think the 1.2 is just a dummy
<cliftonts> Ok, so how does one play pokerstars on Precise?
<directhex>    wine1.2 | 1.4-0ubuntu4 | precise/universe | amd64, i386
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> cliftonts: So, what happens when you try it under 1.4 ?
<cliftonts> wine1.2 is the only version of wine that works. 1.3 crashes every 3 minutes like clockwork and 1.4 or 1.5 won't allow it to connect to the remote server
<directhex> http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=2899 ?
<penguin42> cliftonts: You can grab the wine1.2 packages out of the repositories manually if you need to - not sure if they'll actually work on PP
<penguin42> directhex: 1.4 seems to be noticably missing
<cliftonts> I wonder what's changed to make it not work
<penguin42> they'll have been lots of changes
<directhex> penguin42, it's just down to what useful bug reports end users have filed. gaps mean people don't bother filing reports
<cliftonts> The natural assumption is that things should work better in later versions. I can assure you poker clients don't
<penguin42> cliftonts: Well they should, but programmers are human, so bugs happen
<cliftonts> Naturally. How do I go about reporting these effects to the right people?
<penguin42> cliftonts: In a terminal, run    ubuntu-bug wine1.4    and see what happens, assuming you have a launchpad account
<cliftonts> I'll have to do that later, it's not installed right now and I'm only on a 3g dongle with limited data. Thanks for that one though.
<cliftonts> Thanks guys. I'm off to shout at the poker client. It won't do any good but it may make me feel better!
<Nafallo> Ng: when are you planning to release Terminator for Windows 7?
<bigcalm> Can you have a split view in terminals? That is, 2 sessions in one view? I have 2 tabs but would like to see the content at the same time
<penguin42> bigcalm: You can in konsole
<bigcalm> Pendulum: not about to run kde :)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: tab fail :P
 * penguin42 swings back and hits bigcalm
<bigcalm> Pendulum: my statement still stands, even if it wasn't meant to be directed back at you ;)
 * bigcalm hugs Pendulum
 * Pendulum hugs bigcalm 
<bigcalm> People complain about BigRedS and me. Yet we're not the only 3 letter similar nicks in here :P
<bigcalm> penguin42: no offence, but I like that Pendulum is the 1st for my pen<tab> auto-complete ;)
<penguin42> hmph
<bigcalm> Pendulum: how's UDS?
<Pendulum> bigcalm: not quite started yet. And I was exhausted so last night was an early night
<bigcalm> h
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Wah, netbeans has stopped responding
<bigcalm> Time to play minecraft then
<SuperEngineer> a'noon folkies
<MooDoo> hullo
<SuperEngineer> o/ MooDoo
<SuperEngineer> Q/  I'm using Feh [a cli image viewer] to replicate the old "Pictures Folder" screensaver. [using feh -rzZFYD7 /home/[me]/Pictures]
<SuperEngineer> ...anyway to set a cron job to start it automatically after x amount of time of idle kbd/mouse?
<penguin42> isn't teasier just to install xscreensaver?
<penguin42> ^teasier^it easier
<cocoa117> can you do soft link to the user's home directory? so it can be located elsewhere then default /home?
<cocoa117> i keep getting permission issue when login
<bigcalm> When adding a user, you can have the home directory be something other than in /home
<bigcalm> -m I think
<bigcalm> Or -d
<cocoa117> bigcalm, en, it's too late for that
<cocoa117> i guess i have to manually modify the /etc/passwd file?
<bigcalm> cocoa117: usermod -d /path/to/new/homedir/ username
<cocoa117> bigcalm, sure, i just realised it is one option
<Ng> Nafallo: I think we should wait for WIndows 8 and make it a Metro app!
<Nafallo> Ng: well, I need it yesterday. putty is just killing me :-P
<Ng> Nafallo: you'd better get hacking then :)
<Ng> it might work in some kind of cygwin stack
<Ng> if you can get python and gnome-terminal running therein, you should be good
<Nafallo> meh... bother.
<Nafallo> I'll just wait for Terminator Salvation...
<directhex> gnome stuff tends to be a bit squiffy on windows. lots of daemons are expected. gnome-session-gorilla and dbus and so on
<Nafallo> guerilla
 * penguin42 thought Gnome was based on monkeys
<AlanBell> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/ live stream from UDS
<MooDoo> cheers AlanBell
<penguin42> that's actually impressively good quality
<AlanBell> it is jono's introduction for 15 minutes or so then he will hand over to Mark Shuttleworth
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yay you made it safetly :)
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> all good :)
<bigcalm> Would be nice if the block would disappear if there was nothing to show in it
<czajkowski> no slides
<AlanBell> there will be slides in a bit I think, they switched to sabdfl.pdf or something a sec ago
<bigcalm> This is amazingly good quality
<AlanBell> slide now?
<AlanBell> orange pangloin
<bigcalm> Aye
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: sorry - I was away looking at AskUbuntu
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I didn't go down the xsc route in case it fouled up unity
<SuperEngineer> [there's also the statement : Canonical provides critical updates for Automatic screensaver for X until October 2013.
<unconference> I notice that there are some issues with the nvidia drivers in 12.04
<SuperEngineer> which is a clue [to me] it may be bad in 12.04 - anybody know for sure if ok or not?
<unconference> I had to uninstall nvidia-current to be able to see anything coherent
<SuperEngineer> ...all I want is my photos as a screensaver, nothing else
<bigcalm> Is that popey in the front row?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the bald patch on the left (stage right) you mean? :)
 * MartijnVdS runs
<popey> bigcalm: no, i am at the back with AlanBell
<bigcalm> popey: ah, hiding with your laptops :D
<SuperEngineer> watchin the vid... oh no... he said "empoer people" - what next - thinking "outside the box"?
<popey> hah
<SuperEngineer> *empower
 * penguin42 assumes popey and alanbell are playing buzzword bingo
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> :)
<unconference> computers empowering people these days is a novel concept
<ali1234> true
<unconference> much of the trend seems to be in the opposite direction
<ali1234> well it depends how you define "empowering"
<unconference> true
<ali1234> i mean apple certainly empowered a lot of shovelware developers
<ali1234> so really it depends how you define "people"
<unconference> shovelware?
<ali1234> you probably know it by the marketing term, "apps"
<unconference> ah yes
<unconference> Centralized app stores are convenient, but they also give the mediator a lot of power
<ali1234> it's not about the store as such
<ali1234> except that everyone measure the appstore by the number of apps
<unconference> which is silly
<ali1234> which means the owners just encourage everyone to make hundreds of identical games etc
<ali1234> so everything about every app store is abut how easy it is to develop, how easy the apis are, how easy to upload etc
<ali1234> but usually they are only easy if you are building trivial shovelware ie a rss feed disguised as an app
<ali1234> hmm what's this?
<ali1234> oh way to put a huge caption box over... whatever that is
<ali1234> crowd does not sound like they are up for it
<AlanBell> it is a box \o/ woot
<bigcalm> Sounds like he's reading a marketing script
<AlanBell> looks like a crate of raspberry pis
<ali1234> this is the most boring surprise ever
<penguin42> oh, the calxeda stuff
<bigcalm> Why do people in America applaud to anything and everything?
<gordonjcp> cheerleader mentality
<bigcalm> Is the goatse logo on the board behind Mark?
 * AlanBell gets leotard and pompops out
<AlanBell> pompoms
<AlanBell> pompoms
<bigcalm> Awesome!
<AlanBell> gah, lag
<penguin42> you'd hope they would hold a cloud summit somewhere weater
<SuperEngineer_> woops - lost t'internet then - I blame the conference vid ;)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: have you been cringing each time Mark says Awesome?
<bigcalm> The HUD is not innovative :(
<unconference> It's a little innovative
<unconference> I would like to see some natural language parsing in the HUD also
<AlanBell> ooh, that is quite interesting
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you're such a grump today
<czajkowski> bigcalm: it's a bank holiday get off irc and go for a walk and fresh air
<ali1234> that's the stupidest thing i've ever seen
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I was working to 1.45am last night and most of this afternoon so far
<AlanBell> that new hud is going to be even less accessible than the current hud
<bigcalm> I want to, but this code isn't going to write itself
<SuperEngineer_> ooo - gimp 2.8 - that's awesome
<ali1234> is the idea to put everything in the top left corner of the screen and then just leave the other 3/4 blank or what?
<bigcalm> There goes the stream again
<penguin42> the video player has an odd behaviour; if the stream drops and I hit play it restarts where it previously started at
<bigcalm> popey is that legend
<ali1234> unity it probably the most cluttered desktop i have ever seen
<ali1234> well, the top left corner of it is
<unconference> The top left is busy
<SuperEngineer_> ali1234: you need to throw a can a can of Carlsberg at the monitor...
<SuperEngineer_> then it'll probably be the best ;)
<SuperEngineer_> [the best clutered...]
<ali1234> AW
<ali1234> what's he saying?
<popey> he's talking about dell xps
<popey> dell have a project to bring devops back to 'pc' from osx
<popey> where 'pc' is a swishy looking laptop running Ubuntu
<bigcalm> What it in a case or box? It looked very large
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<bigcalm> Are all the think pad owners now sad that they don't have the same machine as Mark?
<directhex> a cray x5m
<SuperEngineer_> bbs - switchin back to broadbad [BT couldn't cope with stream - had to use 3G]
<czajkowski> gord: ping
<brobostigon> !info vlc unstable
<lubotu3> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.1-4 (unstable), package size 1359 kB, installed size 3351 kB
<ali1234> why is this thing specifically targeted at developers?
<ali1234> i mean... what about it makes it good for developers?
<AlanBell> UDS you mean?
<ali1234> no... project sputnik
<ali1234> you know the more i think about that "future hud" image the more stupid it seems
<ali1234> how are we supposed to operate those sliders and knobs with the keyboard?
<AlanBell> yeah, indeed
<AlanBell> which means accessibility is broken again
<ali1234> the whole argument for unity so far has been "keyboard fast mouse slow" and "i hate having to take my hands off the keyboard"
<ali1234> but if you use a tool like gimp you hate having to take your hands off the mouse
<ali1234> and so you probably hate unity and especially the hud
<popey> but you're gonna take your hands off the kb to use those tools anyway without hud
<ali1234> exactly
<popey> so it makes no difference
<popey> its just bubbling up the ui to the hud
<ali1234> if you are doing GRAPHICAL work you probably are not using the keyboard *at all*
<popey> i dont agree with that
<ali1234> so this whole "having t move from keyboard to mouse" argument does not apply at all
<popey> having watched someone use photoshop for 4 hours yesterday
<popey> one hand on the mouse (actually a wacom tablet) and one hand on the keyboard
<ali1234> so were they slowly typing "z - o - o - m" with their left hand?
<ali1234> or were they just using the zoom tool with the mouse?
<popey> they were using keyboard shortcuts
<SuperEngineer> question re accesibilty - is it easier to use the mouase or the keyboard - if answer is mouse - a serious rethink is needed
<ali1234> (pointing device)
<ali1234> the hud has nothing at all to do with keyboard shortcuts
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: everything needs to be keyboard navigable and focussable
<AlanBell> like the shortcut overlay isn't
<SuperEngineer> ....someone is beginning to understand my point
<ali1234> AlanBell has been pushing for accessibility for as long as i can remember :)
<ali1234> which admittedly is not very long
<SuperEngineer> way forward [for some] = voice intrface.  say "hud", say "clear history" - oooh - would be nice
<SuperEngineer> ...also way forward for when feeling lazz ;)
<SuperEngineer> *lazy
<SuperEngineer> anyway [warning, "too much info" time coming up...] me go have bath - see youz all later
<penguin42> "hud - terminal, rm -rf /  enter"
<SuperEngineer>  "hud - terminal, rm -rfi /  enter / fall asleep"
<zleap> hi
<popey> hello zleap
<zleap> hello
<zleap> are is lubuntu still an official release
<zleap> ok how do i get ubuntu to tell me how much ram I have
<DJones> zleap: cat /proc/meminfo Look at the top line MemTotal
<zleap> i got it, system info in settings too
<DJones> Or less typing "free"
<zleap>  1802684 kB
<zleap> so that is 1.8 gb,  i know I have 2gb in total so i guess the missing memory is somewhere
<popey> 20:35:04 < zleap> are is lubuntu still an official release
<popey> yes
<DJones> Looks right, what graphics card do you have? If its got shared memory, that would explain the difference
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i think it has
<zleap> i am looking at lubuntu  as a option
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> system info claims i have 15.7GB
<ali1234> GiB
<zleap> there seems to be discrepencies somewhere
<zleap> GIB = GB i think, i never know where to use caps and when not to these days
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's doing free -m and then dividing it by 1024
<ali1234> which gives 15.673
<zleap> ah
<ali1234> but free -m uses megabytes and not mebibytes
<ali1234> i will report a bug
<zleap> what is mebibytes
<ali1234> unless someone else knows better what is going on
<ali1234> mebibytes = 1000000 bytes
<MartijnVdS> zleap: powers-of-2 megabytes
<zleap> ah
<ali1234> er
<ali1234> megabytes = 1000000 bytes
<ali1234> mebibytes is "the other one"
<zleap> 1024
<MartijnVdS> 1024*1024
<zleap> 1024 = 1kb
<zleap> 1mb= 1024*1024
<MartijnVdS> 1kib
<MartijnVdS> 1mib
<ali1234> hmm wait, even weirder
<zleap> so is this to make it easy for non computer users, thinking 1024 as 1000
<ali1234> free -b / 1024^3 = 15.674
<MartijnVdS> zleap: "Hard disk" MBs = 10000000
<MartijnVdS> zleap: "Memory" MBs = 1024 * 1024
<ali1234> so free in fact is not using megabytes like it says it is
<MartijnVdS> zleap: "Memory" = MiB
<MartijnVdS> zleap: HD = MB
<ali1234> so both free and sysinfo are using powers of 2
<zleap> ok according to the side of my computer i have 2gb ram
<ali1234> so where did the other 300mb go?
<zleap> free -g shows Mem:             1          1          0          0          0          0
<zleap> total 1
<zleap> i will check in the bios
<MartijnVdS> zleap: there's dmidecode (on PC)
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that will usually list the memory modules
<ali1234> because free always rounds down
<MartijnVdS> well "things" get used
<MartijnVdS> like the first MB is "Special"
<ali1234> kernel uses 300mb these days?
<MartijnVdS> depends on the kernel
<ali1234> i didn't think ubuntu kernel was that bloated...
<zleap> that command is useful
<zleap> now why can't sysinfo just display the output from that
<directhex> mibibytes!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: mebibytes
<directhex> moobybites!
<directhex> kibinibbles.
<MartijnVdS> Egg McMooby Muffin?
<DJones> Tribbles ?
<SuperEngineer> [free -g lies,  free on its own has a more honest description, free nelson mandela returns "done"]
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<ali1234> the only one that actually maches what the man pages says is free -b
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Come to OggCamp 12 - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/05/07/come-to-oggcamp-12/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=come-to-oggcamp-12
<MooDoo> hello all
<zleap> anyway that dmidecode command is great
<Azelphur> suddenly, canonicalproductsprint everywhere
<bigcalm> Guess why :)
<MooDoo> :)
<Azelphur> because your sprinting towards products? :D
<gord> actually not seen any uk loco people here yet
 * Azelphur has no idea what's going on
<ali1234> UDS
<Azelphur> o.O
<czajkowski> gord: where are you
<czajkowski> I found a gord :)
<directhex> hax!
<czajkowski> I gave him tea bags and bickies and showed him my issue with hud
<czajkowski> I wasn't going mad!
<directhex> have you found Laney yet?
<czajkowski> yup had breakfast with him
<popey> i saw him walking around with an ubuntu user magazine
<daftykins> are you all out and about at an event?
<ali1234> daftykins: UDS!
<daftykins> ah that time again
<czajkowski> daftykins: yeah 6 months comes around fast
<czajkowski> I can see aquarius popey gord and Pendulum all from here
<daftykins> :D
<directhex> Oracle v. Google jury returns partial verdict, favoring Oracle
<directhex> A unanimous jury found that Google infringed on Oracle's Java, but failed to say whether Google had made "fair use" of the material. Google called for a mistrial.
<daftykins> strange biz
<directhex> somewhere in googleplex, someone checks out xobotos from git and scratches his chin...
<ali1234> what happens if oracle buys msft?
<ali1234> also, can xobotos rebuild existing android apps?
<ali1234> i'm not really clear on what it actually does
<directhex> ali1234, it's a proof of concept port of all android's java sources to c#, using a massively improved foss tool, in order to show off mono's jitter versus dalvik's jitter
<ali1234> so pretty much useless for google then?
<ali1234> also if it automatically converts the java to mono, doesn't it also infringe on oracle's... whatever
<directhex> ali1234, it's academically interesting, given google originally considered using c# instead of java
<directhex> ali1234, it doesn't implement any of oracle's APIs, it specifically rewrites existing source to no longer use the APIs. which are apparently copyrightable
<ali1234> only the implementation is copyrightable?
<ali1234> or rather, only the act of implementation infringes?
<directhex> i don't think the court has defined things that far yet
<ali1234> if it makes the code run, it could be considered an implementation
<directhex> top - 00:32:33 up  1:12,  1 user,  load average: 19.65, 15.34, 11.88
<directhex> WAT
<ali1234> but i guess if it is only used once, maybe not
<ali1234> but then that's always been my problem with both mono and java: you need a huge amount of code to make anything run
<ucstaa> i was just reading groklaw, she says that has not yet been decided
<ucstaa> the jury said you could, but the judge said that question wasn't part of their remit to decide
<directhex> power cycled, keeping an eye on load...
<directhex> it's going crazy again
<directhex> /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-miner-fs
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-08
<daftykins> directhex: sorted?
<directhex> daftykins, just uninstalled that daemon
<daftykins> cunning
<daftykins> has anyone got experience with making irssi highlight variants of your nickname + when it's mid-sentence?
<AlanBell> daftykins: /hilight dafty
<daftykins> :O simplicity is magic
<daftykins> AlanBell: thanks
<gord> AlanBell, aren't you theoretically here somewhere?
<AlanBell> gord: I am actually here
<gord> AlanBell, so you claim
<AlanBell> I am going down to the meet & greet in a sec
<ging> are you at that developers confrence thing?
<popey> ging: yes
<mangamonk_> hello all
<mangamonk_> I'm looking for a command that will list the versions of the installed module versions
<mangamonk_> basically a command that will list the current set up so that it can be cloned elsewhere
<dogmatic69> mangamonk_: all your programs?
<dogmatic69> there is something in apt to dump / install with
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: dump/install?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I believe you can also now sync your installed apps using Ubuntu one.
<mangamonk_> hi
<MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: "current versions" tends to be based on repositories, unless you manually dpkg -i updated versions (which is bad)
<mangamonk_> no just for a particular site
<MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: there's dpkg -l and dpkg --get-selections, but afaik there's a newer method (Which takes care of packages marked as "automatic" as well)
<dogmatic69> http://www.debianadmin.com/clone-your-ubuntu-installation.html
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: dump the list, install from the list
<MartijnVdS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=819396
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: cat installedpackages | xargs sudo aptitude install
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's BAD
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: just dpkg --set-selections < installedpackages; apt-get dselect-upgrade
<MartijnVdS> or something
<MartijnVdS> it's there for a reason
<DJones> Morning
<popey> morning
<mangamonk_> I think this is the best way to work out which packages are being used..
<mangamonk_> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/usage.html#searching-for-packages
<popey> and bed
<MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: that's python packages, installed using pip
<MartijnVdS> mangamonk_: which is outside of the package manager
<mangamonk_> ok thanks
<MartijnVdS> (and shouldn't be in package-managed directories, and should be backed up properly)
 * selinuxium ? 
 * selinuxium just received hi Raspberry Pi today!    raspbmc.com here I come!
<bigcalm> Good morning all :)
<oimon> how do i bring up the layer tool in gimp?
<oimon> ah, ctrlL
<mattt> morning morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<oimon> i have a question: would you see the funny side if someone swapped your faces around on a photo found on fb and posted it back on facebook?
<MooDoo> oimon: depends on the photo, but yeah probably would make me giggle
<brobostigon> MooDoo: waking up, various aches and pains, and my eczema feels sensitive, but i am happy to finally have gotton wpa2 working in haiku, and can do some proper testing. and you?
<oimon> MooDoo, yeah, i chose not to publish the one where i put the baby's face on the dads face , shame, it was a classic
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not to bad
<oimon> but i've done it to 2 fellas who are quite outgoing.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<oimon> i might do it under a nom de plume
<MooDoo> you can tell it's monday/uds.....sooooooooo quiet
<tsimpson> doesn't help that they are 8 hours behind us
<MooDoo> yeah
<MooDoo> kinda why popey czajkowski et al aren't here at the moment
<tsimpson> hopefully they're all asleep by now, and not out partying all night :)
<brobostigon> lol, quite. :)
<MooDoo> if you''re going to oggcamp we can all meet up there
<JamesTait> Good morning, folks! :)
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> MooDoo: Monday?
<MooDoo> DJones: see i'm out of it already :S
<DJones> Heh
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo and all
<MooDoo> how's it going davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: sound as a round pound on the ground
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin, you off to oggcamp this year, if i've asked you that before ignore me
 * davmor2 ignores MooDoo 
<MooDoo> davmor2: geee cheers mate :p
<oimon> nothing with cars is ever cheap :( have to pay Â£500 to fix bad alternator + battery :(
<gordonjcp> that seems excessive
<gordonjcp> what kind of car, and how do you know it's the alternator and the battery?
<oimon> VAT @ 20%..
<oimon> focus estate diesel
<gordonjcp> a battery is 100 quid, an alternator is a little more if new, a little less if rebuilt
<gordonjcp> unless they're putting in an eight hour shift to change it...
<oimon> maybe it's tricky to access on ford :-\ dunno
<gordonjcp> how old is it?
<oimon> don't have much choice. i broke down and got it towed to a garage i've used before
<oimon> 56 plate
<gordonjcp> wtf
<gordonjcp> I guess the alternator could have just plain failed, but that's uncommon
<gordonjcp> when did you put a battery in it last?
<oimon> it's the original
<gordonjcp> ah
<gordonjcp> they only last about four or five years typically
<oimon> seems that an alternator costs aroud Â£170
<gordonjcp> I'd be surprised if it's failed
<oimon> battery light came on while driving. then everything in the car failed inc power steering
<gordonjcp> with a good alternator and a reasonably well-charged battery you ought to be seeing a bit over 14V across the battery terminals at a fast idle
<gordonjcp> did the engine cut out?
<oimon> don't think so - don't remember too clearly as was trying to steer
<gordonjcp> okay
<oimon> maybe not, but i porb would have cut the engine and tried to start again
<gordonjcp> if the fan belt breaks then you lose the alternator and power steering pump among others
<gordonjcp> hence the warning light and heavy steering
<oimon> towing with a fixed bar is a bit scary
<gordonjcp> heh
<oimon> can't see where the van is going , driving blind
<gordonjcp> not as scary as when the AA guy tried to tow Binky with a fixed bar
<gordonjcp> "uh, you know I've got no brakes because the car's been sitting overnight"
<oimon> binky is your dog?
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/binky.jpg
<gordonjcp> "no no the brakes will work, they'll just need more of a push on the pedal"
<gordonjcp> "no, there's no hydraulic pressure, so there's no brakes at all..."
<gordonjcp> all the fun of having two tonnes of early 80s CitroÃ«n shoving a VW Transporter out of every junction, pretty much uncontrollably
<oimon> whoah, is that thing still going?
<gordonjcp> yup
<gordonjcp> it's in storage just now though
<gordonjcp> annoyingly someone broke the windscreen
<oimon> :(
<bigcalm> Who fancies a mysql connectivity question?
<BigRedS> I don't think you'll ever find someone who *wants* to answer a MySQL question :)
<BigRedS> you just have to ask it and see if anyone answers subconsciously
<bigcalm> Mysql database on server A is bound to localhost and 10.x.x.x. It will respond to telnet from server B on port 3306. It will not, however, allow mysql logins from server B. Access denied for user 'bob'@'10.x.x.y' to database 'foobar'
<ali1234> it means you did not set up the grants table correctly
<ali1234> it's not a connectivity issue
<bigcalm> I have used grant thus: grant all on foobar.* to bob@10.x.x.y identified by 'wibble';
<mattt> WIBBLE!
<MooDoo> go onto server a and type show grants for `bob`; and put it on pastebin :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: How's you dude?
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2 over working myself (including days off). Good otherwise ta. Are you recovered yet?
<davmor2> just finished the import email catch up
<mattt> bigcalm: i can't remember the specifics, but there could be another grant getting in the way
<bigcalm> MooDoo: fixed it!
<mattt> what was it?
<bigcalm> I had confused the username and database name :D
<mattt> oh shiii
<mattt> :P
<MooDoo> doh!
<bigcalm> They are similar in this project
<bigcalm> Just talking about a problem can help fix it. Thanks guys :)
<MooDoo> just remember !ask :)
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<MooDoo> yay
<davmor2> bigcalm: by any chance did you spend the long weekend watching black adder?
<bigcalm> davmor2: no, I spent it working. And usually late into the night
<bigcalm> I just like to use Slack Bladder references :)
<davmor2> I bet you don't have you underpants on your head and pencils up your nose though so we know your not mad
<bigcalm> davmor2: not currently, no
<bigcalm> I'm quite the loon
<bigcalm> Right, how can I get sockets in PHP to listen on all IP addresses that a machine has, not just a specific one?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how do you bind() now?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: bind to 0.0.0.0 and/or :: instead
<bigcalm> Ooo, hadn't thought of 0.0.0.0
<MartijnVdS> (0.0.0.0 binds to all IPv4, :: to both V4 and V6 or V6 only depending on kernel setting)
<bigcalm> Server has no ipv6 sadly (thankfully)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if it has a Linux kernel you can use :: (as long as the ipv6 module is available)
<MartijnVdS> and it'll still work on IPv6
<MartijnVdS> AND it'll be v6-ready when it gets it :)
<bigcalm> [2012-05-08 06:07:24] ++ Accepting connections on 0.0.0.0 port 11960
 * bigcalm boogies
<MartijnVdS> it's still PHP ;)
<bubuz> hi guys - can anyone recommend any UK based linux courses beginner/advanced ??
<MooDoo> bubuz: generic linux or ubuntu specific?
<DJones> Hi bubuz Did you get any other answers in #ubuntu?
<bubuz> MooDoo, generic or ubuntu specific if any can be recommended?
<bubuz> not really DJones
<mattt> bubuz: i can't recommend any, but perhaps hotcourses.com may lead you in the right direction?
<davmor2> bubuz: the Open University were doing a linux course I don't know if that is still running
<MooDoo> bubuz: http://www.linuxtraining.co.uk/ http://www.coursemonster.com/uk/courses/linux/
<bubuz> im more wanting to know
<bubuz> what linux courses carry the most weight i guess
<bubuz> what is thought of as a good course
<bubuz> i know there are quite a few around
<BigRedS> It's probably more about certs than courses then. LPIC and Linux+ are now identical so should be equivalent
<MooDoo> a course is a course, it's what you get out of it.
<mattt> agreed, a course in itself doesn't carry much weight
<BigRedS> but for most places, experience trumps certs and courses by several orders of magnitude
<bubuz> i kno with linux especially exp > certs
<bubuz> but am gaining the exp now
<bubuz> and figure if i can get my company to pay for me to get some certs
<bubuz> all the better
<bubuz> LPIC / Linux + I have heard of
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> if it's certs you're after, then LPIC or Linux+ are the ones to go for
<MooDoo> bubuz: ever thought about REDHAT rhce? ?
<BigRedS> or RHCE etc.
<BigRedS> RH are higher-regarded (and harder) but obviously quite RH-centric
<bubuz> have thought about it yes
<BigRedS> which wont preclude a Debian-flavoured job, you'll just need to learn some RHisms for it
<bubuz> would love to but in honestly have never used RH linux
<mattt> i did the RHCE exam a # of years ago, it's a pretty cool process
<bubuz> mainly use ubuntu/arch
<bubuz> massively different to ubuntu?
<mattt> no, but the exam is very red hat-centric (as someone said)
<mattt> heavy use of yum/rpm/red hat tools
<bubuz> and you have to pay for rh which im sure wouldnt go down too great with my company
<bubuz> as they are trying to move away from paying MS!
<mattt> you could use centos/scientific linux/whatever :)
<bubuz> maybe fedora would be a good options
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've seen fedora suggested as a good place to practice for RH?? exams
<bubuz> cheers guys
<BigRedS> bubuz: RH is about as different to Ubuntu as Arch is I think
<BigRedS> It's got a lot more 'things' though
<bubuz> I'll give centOS a try i think
<mattt> it all depends what your goal is
<mattt> if the training is to support what you run at work
<mattt> then obviously that should determine which classes you take :)
<bubuz> goal is to get a good cert so I can leave this MS shop and move to a linux job with better Â£Â£Â£ :)
<bubuz> ultimately
<mattt> then i'd say a red hat cert is a good choice
<bubuz> ok thanks for your help
<mattt> since it's the most widely recognized linux-based certification that i'm aware of
<BigRedS> yeah, RH is better than LPIC for general Linux jobs
<BigRedS> and there's more RH jobs than Debian ones, generally
<bubuz> cool
<directhex> if i might make an observation
<mattt> directhex: uh oh
<bubuz> so ill look into read hat certs and hopefully be able to train using centOS
 * mattt braces
<bubuz> lol
<bubuz> please do directhex
<directhex> if i have a pile of CVs, and one of them has a bucket of fancy certifications, and the other has a bunch of decent bug reports in any major distro and maybe even is a contributor, then the cert guy is going in the bin
 * mattt puts directhex in the bin
<BigRedS> yeah, we covered that earlier
<BigRedS> :)
<bubuz> lol yeah
<bubuz> agreed
<directhex> just saying
<mattt> directhex: fully agree
<bubuz> exp > certs
<bubuz> but if your getting the exp now
<BigRedS> "You need experience" "yeah, but work are buying a cert for me so I might as well get one" "Oh, okay, RHCE or LPIC then"
<bubuz> you may aswell get the certs to boot no?
<bubuz> ^^^ what he said :]
<directhex> there's no "X cert is better than Y cert" from where I'm sat, there's just a bunch of stuff that says "i was too busy taking certs to get ubuntu commit rights"
<BigRedS> so certs are *bad* in your eyes?
<directhex> BigRedS, actively bad, yes.
<mattt> directhex: but if you're applying at a bank or corporation, they'd probably care more about the cert than bug reports :P
<BigRedS> it depends where you're applying, I suppose
<directhex> BigRedS, howEVER, for large corps, HR won't allow any CV with experience through, only certs
<kirrus> I've been forced to take certs for the sake of having them before
<BigRedS> if your cert gets screend by HR you *need* acronyms
<BigRedS> ah, yes
<BigRedS> and, er, s/cert/cv/ there, too
<BigRedS> I typed in a rush and was still beated by directhex :)
<mattt> get the CUBS certification -- Certified Ubuntu Bug Submitter
<ali1234> i make you certificate in paint!
<directhex> in all seriousness though, if i can see someone's launchpad bug activity, i can see how they think - their diagnostic processes, their methodology, etc. if they have a cert, all i know is they had free time
<bubuz> comes down to this directhex, where do you recruit for?
<ali1234> only $99
<bubuz> who rather
<BigRedS> ali1234: I'll take four!
<directhex> bubuz, small biz. academia. places with a LOT of FOSS knowledge
<mattt> speaking of
<mattt> anyone near swindon?
<bubuz> academia - says it all
<mattt> saw a neat unix/linux job opening for the national trust
<BigRedS> directhex: massive difference is that it's quite easy to get a cert just by working, and hard to get commit rights or whatever on any given project
<directhex> BigRedS, precisely.
<BigRedS> and, also, commit rights as a sense of quality is only that great for developers. Sure, anyone else can do bugreporting and support and the like
<BigRedS> but for that you just google their name and see which lists they're on
<BigRedS> still, I find it hard to agree with the notion that some guy's last job got them to work to a certificate and this should count against them
<bubuz> cool
<bubuz> ill download the RH course material and have a gander before seriously checking out the courses/certs avail
<bubuz> and get a copy of centos in the meantime
<bubuz> :)
<BigRedS> anyway, so long as you're not trying to work for directhex you shoudl be fine with RHCE or LPIC :)
<bubuz> hah ;o)
<bubuz> long shot and I know this is not the channel but as it is a UK channel - anyone here running XBMC? :)
<directhex> quite probably
<directhex> but i'd be surprised if our competitors felt differently
<BigRedS> well, we like seeing certs on CVs here and we have no HR department
<directhex> it's still on the hard disk of an xbox i haven't booted for years. does that count?
<bubuz> its moved on a lot since then directhex :P
<directhex> pfft. typical.
<bubuz> lol its just dead in the main chan
<BigRedS> maybe they're all watching TV
<bubuz> hmm, anyone else banned from #centos ?
<bubuz> i've never been in there ..
<ali1234> you probably need to be registered
<ali1234>  /msg nickserv help register
<bubuz> yeah i should be reg'd already
<bubuz> -NickServ- You are already logged in as Flexa
<ali1234> odd
<bubuz> strange unless they have blanket bann'd alot of ec2 IP's which is a possiblity
<ali1234> oh yes, very much so
<ali1234> ec2 = wretched hive of scum and villainy
<bubuz> going to spin up a centOS ec2 instance while at work to get started
<bubuz> lovely.
<bubuz> hah
<bubuz> all sorts lurk in there ali1234 ;0)
<bubuz> hmm i can spin up RHEL 6.2 on ec2
<bubuz> on a micro instance
<bubuz> nice.
<BigRedS> doesn't that have a subscription cost?
<bubuz> perhaps
<bubuz> dont think so looking at it
<bubuz> they must absorb this cost / i get the free 30 day trial maybe?
<BigRedS> hm, perhaps
<BigRedS> I can't see Amazon absorbing any costs at all :)
<bubuz> ah ok
<ali1234> well you can run windows instances can't you?
<bubuz> a micro instance is $0.08/hour as opposed to free
<bubuz> yes you can
<bubuz> a micro instance of ubuntu for example is free though
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, at about double the cost of a Linux one
<BigRedS> though, yeah, checking their price list it's just Linux prices and Windows prices
<bubuz> BigRedS, at least
<BigRedS> so not sure what's going on :)
<BigRedS> ah, no, RHEL gets its own price list
<BigRedS> http://aws.amazon.com/rhel/
<BigRedS> more expensive than Windows :)
<bubuz> no so bad on a micro instance
<bubuz> just to get used to it
<directhex> lolhat enterlol lolux
<ali1234> http://kudos707.deviantart.com/art/ID-5-254818597
<mattt> bubuz: just use centos :D
<ali1234> RHEL is pronounced like "R-hell" right?
<currymonster> lmao
<mattt> ali1234: you funny
<directhex> i go for "r'hel". think "vl'hurg"
<BigRedS> I think I normally pronounce it 'Redat'
<bubuz> mattt, why centOS if i can try RHEL? :P
<MooDoo> bubuz: centos free, rhel not
<bubuz> kk
<bubuz> :)
<bubuz> is yum massively different to apt?
<BigRedS> it does the same thing with different commands
<bubuz> cool
<tsimpson> s/same/similar/
<BigRedS> well, depends how you define the 'thing'
<bubuz> repo manager
<BigRedS> there's different featuresets, but I don't think there's much in the way of tasks you can do on one but not the other
<BigRedS> no, package manager
<BigRedS> you manage the repos, it uses them
<bubuz> sorry package mgr *
<bubuz> :)
<BigRedS> :)
<bubuz> ok - may open a whole new can of worms here
<bubuz> but what is SUSE all about then as it is an enterprise level product
<BigRedS> what do you mean?
<BigRedS> It's supposed to do what RH does
<BigRedS> but in a more German way
<bubuz> "in a mroe german way"
<BigRedS> yeah, it's pretty popular in Germany
<BigRedS> and nowhere else
<bubuz> lol
<bubuz> cool
<bubuz> have been using linux, mainly ubuntu now for a few years
<bubuz> but not for enterprise stuff mostly
<BigRedS> Everytime anybody mentions 'enterprise' use of software I picture a US supercarrier
<bubuz> what is the different between runing ubuntu server and centOS server for example? how is one more tailored to enterprise than the other?
<MooDoo> BigRedS: or wesley crushed in an ubuntu top :)
<bubuz> sorry for all the queastions :)
<MooDoo> bubuz: centos c - enterprise OS is built from rhel code
<bubuz> what makes that code better for running a server than perhaps ubuntu server? :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Centos takes an age to boot. Ubuntu server doesn't. :-)
<bubuz> not looking for an essay of an enaswer am sure could spend hours going into it
<bubuz> lol
<MooDoo> bubuz: probsably no difference, just a different companys way of doing it
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: come on it's not that bad lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> bubuz: Certain vendors of "Enterprise" software certify their code on RHEL. It will run on CentOS as it is basically identical to RHEL.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: In my experience it is.
<BigRedS> bubuz: same as any other "why distro X rather than distro Y"
<TheOpenSourcerer> We run almost everything on 10.04 LTS right now. When customers do specify CentOS it takes an age to boot in comparison,
<BigRedS> personal preference
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ah what do you know it's not as if you own a linux based company is it...;) lol
<bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, am using 10.04 lts server at the moment and more than happy with it
<bubuz> but as it is an enterprise server am wondering what I would gain by moving it to centOS for example
<TheOpenSourcerer> 10.04 has been great as a server platform.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Moving to CentOS? Why?
<BigRedS> bubuz: not a lot
<MooDoo> bubuz: if you're happy with what you have don't move it
<MooDoo> bubuz: there wouldn't be any gain
<BigRedS> Seriously, 'Enterprise' is mostly a buzzword
<MooDoo> you'd just need to learn yum instead of apt-get :)
<bubuz> we have just been bought out by a much much bigger company - buzz words will help me keep my job when talking to no techie
<TheOpenSourcerer> You will get little/no obvious benefit and a whole heap of pain as everything is configured differently and you have the RPM package manager
<bubuz> non techie*
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tell them how HP and others are now building their new "Cloud offerings" on Ubuntu server. Wikipedia runs on it and plenty more
<bubuz> ^^^ like it
<bubuz> :)
<BigRedS> I'm sure Ubuntu has some buzword-compliant marketing propaganda you can use
<bubuz> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview
<davmor2> bubuz: add to that how Ubuntu are intending to obtain a 5% market share of all computer sales in 2012-2013, Are the number one cloud server OS for aws and openstack and how with awsome you can flip between the 2 with no extra work......
<BigRedS> There's a thing called awsome?
<BigRedS> awesome
<BigRedS> bet czajkowski loves that :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: czajkowski is awesome
<TheOpenSourcerer> most overused word in the dictionary. I blame the yanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My RaspberryPi arrived today.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've ended up using it way too much
<BigRedS> but it's an awesome word
<czajkowski> morning
<bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, FU!!!!!
<bubuz> lol
<czajkowski> you rang
<bubuz> when did you register your interest? RS Online?
<davmor2> BigRedS: Any Web Service On ME  iirc
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, it did? awesome!
 * directhex flees
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: woohoo!
<Dave2> I take it the Windows Me jokes have all been made by now
<davmor2> Dave2: You know what I don't think anyone thought of it you should send an email in straight away :D
<BigRedS> davmor2: ME?
 * BigRedS feels all behind the curve
<davmor2> BigRedS: Ubuntu server which then has a middleware product AWSOME that means the code you wrote for aws will run flawlessly on open stack the ME == Ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice: http://gigaom.com/cloud/dell-tests-open-source-laptop-for-developers/
<davmor2> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure popey came up with the name to annoy czajkowski to be honest :D
<bubuz> TheOpenSourcerer, from RS Online?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bubuz: No, Farnell
<bubuz> still no word from RS Online for me
<davmor2> by the way people you should now find EA's lord of ultima and Command and Conquer Tiberium Alliences in software center now :D \o/
<BigRedS> davmor2: ahhhhh, makes sense
<BigRedS> sounds handy
<davmor2> BigRedS: indeed
<davmor2> BigRedS: it also means that juju charms become easier to write cause then you don't need to care which service you use
<oimon> they could call it AWSUM instead
<oimon> fit a Ubuntu in there
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: nice
<jpds> oimon: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/private-cloud/awsome
<oimon> jpds, aahh openstack
<oimon> i thought it was a play on AWS
<BigRedS> Hmm, so the redundancy-across-cloud-providers thing gets easier, too
<davmor2> BigRedS: Indeedly-doodly
<s-fox> Hello
<MooDoo> hello
<s-fox> Hi MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> how are you s-fox ?   rubbish? ;) lol
<s-fox> MooDoo, I am fantabulous thank you
<MooDoo> hehe
<davmor2> s-fox: Heyup our kid
<s-fox> Hello davmor2, how are you?
<davmor2> s-fox: good thanks, still playing catch up with my email whilst working, you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you work?  seriously?
<s-fox> davmor2,  I am okay thank you. Working on gaining a position on the ubuntu membership board. sort of excited
<davmor2> MooDoo: Listen chap trying out these new EA games is hard work dude but someone has to do it
<MooDoo> davmor2: hard life pal, although do you need an employee to mop your brow?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I can cope with that just ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah you're selfish mr
<davmor2> MooDoo: well that and I couldn't afford your rates :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: there is that, you need to persuade your boss to make an opening at canonical towers "games player brow mopper uperer"
<directhex> EA games appear in software center!(*)
<directhex> (* note: all shortcuts to browser game websites)
<bigcalm> Can anybody recommend a 3rd party SMTP provider?
<hamitron> google?
<bigcalm> Any other suggestions from anybody?
<Flashtek> bigcalm: hammer ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: yahoo, gmail, msn, create your own, use your isp's
<bigcalm> davmor2: I suggested to my PM that we run exim4 and do it ourselves. He said he wasn't happy with that and I was to find a provider that he would then pay for
<Flashtek> pick me, pick me...
<bigcalm> Anybody have experience of http://www.authsmtp.com/mail-server/ ?
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<gord> good moaning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<davmor2> gord, popey: EA Games in USC
<bubuz> anyone know how i can get apache logging the actual IP address for GETs as opposed to my load balancer address?
<directhex> <directhex> EA games appear in software center!(*)
<directhex> <directhex> (* note: all shortcuts to browser game websites)
<directhex> davmor2, ^^
<davmor2> directhex: I know that I'm the one that tested it
<davmor2> directhex: it's still EA games in USC :P
<directhex> how much testing is involved in a hyperlilnk? o_o
<MooDoo> directhex: hours
<MooDoo> :)
<directhex> anyway, my alliance will crush yours
<davmor2> directhex: there is a package to install that gives you a desktop file and a couple of other bits that needed testing
<directhex> to death
<directhex> fwiw, c&c:ta is practically unplayable on windows. can't get more than a handful of frames on any windows browser
<davmor2> needed to ensure it started on 32 and 64bit etc etc
<bubuz> anyone?? #httpd is coming up blank.
<ali1234> C&C browser edition?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap and lord of ultima
<directhex> ali1234, for very small values of "c&c" yes
<ali1234> well i never liked RTS that were over complicated
<MooDoo> bubuz: what's the matter?
<ali1234> also wasn't this supposed to be announced like, tomorrow?
<davmor2> ali1234: Today at about 22:00 uk time but hey I got them in early
<ali1234> so they're already in the store now?
<bubuz> MooDoo, know how i can get apache logging the actual IP address for GETs as opposed to my load balancer address?
<bubuz> other_vhost_access.log only logging the load balancer IP and not the original request
<bubuz> %s and not >%s ?
<davmor2> ali1234: they are
<MooDoo> ah not sure sorry
<ali1234> already rated 1/5
<ali1234> it's free, but it still has a "buy" button, what?
<davmor2> ali1234: it's an old bug and rather than report a bug the whine in reviews
<davmor2> it's easier apparently
<ali1234> that's not why they were whining
<ali1234> they're whining cos it just installs a hyperlink
 * davmor2 looks at directhex 
<davmor2> :D
<directhex> i haven't looked in USC. i'm an aptitude user
<directhex> and i have a working web browser
<ali1234> er... this isn't C&C
<directhex> sure it is. it has tiberium in it!
<popey> how do you find the EA stuff in USC?
<ali1234> this is some stupid facebook game
<directhex> er, yes
<ali1234> oh look a pathetic hand holding tutorial
<davmor2> popey: open usc it should be the first 2 products in what's new or type in lord of ultima or command and conquer
<davmor2> popey: i might take a second for the ppa update in USC
<popey> its installing
<popey> but i see no icon in my launcher
<davmor2> popey: known bug reported before 12.04 was released
<davmor2> popey: they didn't land the launcher code till the last iteration of unity so they got the bug about 20 minutes after that
<ali1234> is it worth me even looking at the other one or is it just exactly the same game but with fantasy graphics instead of sci fi?
<bigcalm> bubuz: I used this in PHP: $ipAddress = (isset($_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'])) ? $_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'] : $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];
<bigcalm> bubuz: it's up to the load balancer to forward on the connecting address
<davmor2> ali1234: no pleasing some people
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] EA Games and Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/08/ea-games-and-ubuntu/
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks for the cd's btw,  is lubuntu still officially supported as a distro ?
<Pendulum> zleap: it's an official flavour. Canonical only actually supports (in terms of paid support & paid development) is Ubuntu
<Pendulum> My impression is that lubuntu is definitely still going right now
<zleap> it is
<zleap> i just wondered if we can get cd's in the same way as Ubuntu cd;s
<Pendulum> You'd have to make your own
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i think i need dvd's for that too,  as the iso is >700 mb
<zleap> but that isn't a problem
<zleap> have made 2 so far
<Flashtek> zleap
<AlanBell> no CDs for lubuntu but it is an official flavour, but not an LTS this time
<Flashtek> you smell
<zleap> ok
<zleap> hi Flashtek
<ali1234> wow looks like canonical is spamming shill reviews and busying negative reviews on the new EA games
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: really?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> my review which accurately describes the gameplay was liked by 3/11 people
<MartijnVdS> which games?
 * MartijnVdS doesn't see a thing
<ali1234> C&C: tiberium alliance (aka farmville in space)
<MartijnVdS> nothing in my software centre
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> NOW it shows up
<ali1234> oh hang on it was the guy above me that got 3/11 (lol)
<gord> keep wearing those tin foil hats, you'll need them lest you lose your brainwaves to the even canonicorp!
<czajkowski> boo
<popey> hoo
<czajkowski> we got lots of folks here at the LP clinic
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!
<czajkowski> herrrro
<davmor2> czajkowski: had to be a big prod had a long way to go
<czajkowski> this is true
<czajkowski> hence you missed me
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: bring me a back a tv, an arm server, a dell xps 13, a phone, and tablet and all is forgiven ;)
<ali1234> er... how do i actually install mono?
<ali1234> (just the runtime)
<davmor2> ali1234: open USC and type in mono
<ali1234> can't, headless server
<davmor2> ali1234: then click on the top result
<ali1234> what is the package called?
<davmor2> ali1234: you didn't say that though did you
<ali1234> well i assumed that you'd just tell me the easiest way
<davmor2> ali1234: mono-runtime
<davmor2> ali1234: I did
<ali1234> interestng. mono-runtime does not appear when you do "apt-cache search mono"
<ali1234> oh hang on, it does. the list isn't in alphabetical order
<MartijnVdS> it's in most-often-installed order?
<MartijnVdS> first-in-packages-fileorder?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> repo order, then alphabetical
<ali1234> so sources.list order
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/976361/ any idea what this means?
<MartijnVdS> you find the coolest bugs
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure it means "mono sucks"
<popey> does it mean "we dont do winforms"?
<ali1234> well author of this software claims to have tested it with mono
<ali1234> they might be full of it though. wouldn't be the first time
<ali1234> just tried MoMA and that doesn't work either
<ali1234> although different error
<ali1234> i don't think installing mono-runtime is enough to actually make mono apps work
<ali1234> ok i don't have any /usr/lib/mono/2.0/ and i think that is the problem
<popey> ahhh
<ali1234> no idea how to install it. mono-2.0-runtime "is only refered to by another package"
<davmor2> http://boingboing.net/2012/05/07/random-network-security-tip-fo.html muhahahahahaha security fail
<ali1234> SSID "Press" "Photo" - it's clearly a temporary public AP
<popey> meh
<popey> access points here are all open :D
<popey> gigabit fibre to the hotel is nice
<ali1234> windows won;t let you use open hotspots properly
<ali1234> i heard quite a few people use it out in the real world :)
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> i installed libmono2.0-cil
<ali1234> now MoMA gives the same error
<ali1234> so it's definitely not winforms error
<ali1234> looks like i;m going to have to install mono-complete
<ali1234> only 124MB
<ali1234> (on top of what mono-runtime already installed)
<zleap> how do i request items for software cenre,  e.g is it possible to perhaps suggest demos of say oilrush
<ali1234> go to the person who makes it and ask them to put it in software centre?
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> yep, that did it
<zleap> ali1234, done, i e-mailed the developers or the company behind oil rush and asked
 * jacobw notes that ubuntu will soon ship on 5% of new PCs
<popey> yup
<MartijnVdS> has the market shifted towards tablets that much already? :P
<Azelphur> hows that work exactly? o.O
<ali1234> ubuntu on a tablet?
<MartijnVdS> no
<ali1234> oic
<MartijnVdS> if fewer PCs are sold, but Ubuntu users still buy PCs, the % of Ubuntu PCs sold will increase
<ali1234> well you won't see me buying a PC with an OS installed
<dogmatic69> could anyone point me in the direction of editing filters in evolution please. Cant seem to find it, nor any posts about it
<dogmatic69> some stuff from years ago, but nothing recent :/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: evo hasn't changed in ages
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: so the old things should still be accurate
<dogmatic69> I found a post saying under mail tools -> filter.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what are the menus?
<MartijnVdS> (I only know the Dutch ones :)
<dogmatic69> I dont see any 'mail' menu and under accounts (could be mail) there is no tools
<dogmatic69> one sec
<dogmatic69> file / edit / view / message / folder / search / help
<MartijnVdS> either edit or message or search
<dogmatic69> closes thin in message is 'apply filters'
<MartijnVdS> not "manage filters"?
<dogmatic69> there is also 'add rule' for new ones
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> oh, found it
<MartijnVdS> where was it?
<dogmatic69> Edit -> message filters
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<dogmatic69> I must have been reading help from evolution 0.1a :D
<dogmatic69> something changed that really sucks.
<dogmatic69> I just cant remember what :D
<dogmatic69> oh. Gimp
<dogmatic69> you cant ctrl+s something.png now
<dogmatic69> you can only use ctrl+s for gimp files
<dogmatic69> you have to shift+ctrl+e (export) to png
<dogmatic69> lame++;
<MartijnVdS> sounds reasonable though
<MartijnVdS> save to another format can be lossy
<dogmatic69> no, ctrl+s you used to be able to use filename.* and it would save (within reason, any file type supported)
<ali1234> they should just make it automatically export whenever you save
<MartijnVdS> I know
<dogmatic69> the default was 'gimp' type files. xhf or something. but you could do .png .jpg etc and it was great. one of my fav features that was
<ali1234> because keeping the gimp format and the png in sync is just annoying
<dogmatic69> ali1234: that is what it used to do pretty much
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> you used to have to do "save as" twice
<ali1234> and change the format both times
<ali1234> at least photoshop has "save a copy" now
<dogmatic69> ye
<ali1234> so you just do save, save a copy
<ali1234> and only have to set the filetype and name once
<dogmatic69> ye, export ~= save a copy i guess
<ali1234> but hey, why not just make the export part of the xcf format?
<ali1234> and do it automatically whenever i save the xcf? without asking me for the options every single time?
<ali1234> nobody, absolutely nobody uses xcf as their final format
<ali1234> but stuff like png just isn't suitable for anything moderately complex, if you ever want to modify it ever again
<dogmatic69> I have used it before, by accident :P
<dogmatic69> sure, but me (being a developer) use gimp for screen shots
<dogmatic69> and that is pretty much all
<ali1234> ah yeah
<dogmatic69> no arty / design anything in me
<ali1234> open png, crop, save
<dogmatic69> exactly
<ali1234> yeah that will be super annoying
<dogmatic69> now its open -> crop -> save -> !@#$%$@# -> export
<yothsoggoth> that sucks
<ali1234> i'll just start uploading xcf files to launchpad until they fix it
<dogmatic69> its almost like writing an app and then not using ctrl+s (industry standard for saving, bar terminal) and using some other random key combination
<dogmatic69> haha
<dogmatic69> I might just do that, open a ticket and attach xcf file
<yothsoggoth> haha
<dogmatic69> got it... one sec
<yothsoggoth> sounds like a silly change to me, what was wrong with Ctrl+S saving all filetypes?
<ali1234> btw, cannot reproduce
<dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/eqD20.jpg
<dogmatic69> ali1234: latest, 3.4 or what ever
<dogmatic69> 2.8
<ali1234> well, that's not an problem for ubuntu
<ali1234> not for another 6 months at least anyway
<dogmatic69> here is what you have to look forward too http://i.imgur.com/BSRxW.png
<dogmatic69> ctrl + s -> change ext -> save
<ali1234> ctrl s should not eve display a dialogue
<ali1234> well, that's gonna get reverted in about 10 seconds after a major distro picks it up
<ali1234> i wouldn't worry about it
<ali1234> if necessary, deploy trolls
<SuperEngineer> oooh: http://www.linuxtoday.com/upload/ubuntu-12.04s-great-flaw-no-hibernation-feature-120507151501.html could have been phrased better than "Ubuntu 12.04's Great Flaw: No Hibernation Feature" - but hmmm
<ali1234> how could it have been phrased better?
<dogmatic69> ali1234: its a new file, not existing
<dogmatic69> I am sure if you open .png and ctrl+s it would not have the dialogue
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: like "12.04 has no hibernation facility at present" perhaps?
<SuperEngineer> [less frightening
<ali1234> "and never will"
<MartijnVdS> no hibernation?
<MartijnVdS> what does my laptop do when I close it then?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nope
<ali1234> "because it's released, and we don;t add features to release"
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: it suspends
<ali1234> not a really very catchy headline
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there's a difference?
<ali1234> hibernation uses zero power
<MartijnVdS> oh it saves to disk?
<ali1234> yes
<dogmatic69> SuperEngineer: afaik it was removed, for a reason
<MartijnVdS> I thought that disappeared because I disabled swap
<ali1234> yeah, it was removed cos it doesn't work
<SuperEngineer> thanks ali1234 beat me to that answer
<ali1234> no, it does not require swap since about 5 years ago
<ali1234> also hibernating to swap is stupid
<ali1234> how do you fit ram + swap into swap? you can't!
<ali1234> unless ram is 0
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: something about different hardware working differently so it was removed
<ali1234> but then your computer does not work anyway
<SuperEngineer> ...so the word flaw in that headline could be replaced with Â£feature" perhaps
<ali1234> it could, if you were feeling particularly sarcastic
<SuperEngineer> who - moi?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<dogmatic69> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft.ars
<dogmatic69> they needed a stable platform :D
<ali1234> speaking of stable platforms
<ali1234> did anyone else notice the wobbly lectern at UDS keynotes?
<brobostigon> bbc1, a prog about compulsive hoarders.
<MartijnVdS> in hd even
<ali1234> grody
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how people become like that
<ali1234> mental illness
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: from what she has said, i dont think she knows the subject, as she said, people are in denial, whereas that is clearly not true, as they have a good logical reson for doig what they are doing. denial implies you are aware, it is illoical. and that is something different.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but that's quite a broad category
<ali1234> there's no logical reason to hoard trash
<ali1234> i assume we are talking people who are in danger of being killed by falling piles of junk right?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i dint say, our logic, but logic within there own minds, and logical reasoning.
<ali1234> and not just people who have a bit too much stuff
<MartijnVdS> yes
<ali1234> flawwed logic is not logic
<ali1234> and yes, they are in denial
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is their logic, a different logic.
<ali1234> no, you see the thing about logic is there isn't a "different" logic
<ali1234> it is by definition objective
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but THEY think it's logic
<ali1234> yes and they THINK they are not in denial
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok example. some of the time, i am unaware of the consequences of my autism, does that mean i am in denial?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> being unaware of something is subjective
<ali1234> but the logical thing to do would be to find ways to cope with this
<ali1234> the illogical thing to do would be to say "it doesn't matter"
<brobostigon> ali1234: in the same way, they are unaware, that what they do, in wrong.
<ali1234> if that was the only problem
<ali1234> then you could fix it by just saying "hey, this is bad"
<ali1234> because then they would become aware
<ali1234> because you just told them
<ali1234> now im not an expert
<ali1234> but i get the feeling that probably wouldn't work
<brobostigon> ali1234: but as i said, they logically think, within their own reasong, that they are doing the right thing.
<brobostigon> reasoning*
<ali1234> that's not reasoning, that's making excuses
<ali1234> people in denial are very very good at doing that
<brobostigon> ali1234: thats reasoning, there is no excuse.
<MartijnVdS> see: smokers :P
<ali1234> gamblers too
<ali1234> any addiction really
<brobostigon> ali1234: so what are they addicted to, under normal reasoning,? in your opinion.
<ali1234> they are addicted to ... hoarding things?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i collect old computers, and electronic parts. is that hoarding?
<ali1234> it depends
<ali1234> have you ever throw out a broken cmputer?
<MartijnVdS> not all collections are hoards
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, i drop kicked it out of my bedroom window, which broke it. i dont own anything, that is broken.
<ali1234> do you ever actually use the things you collect? or do you just throw it on the pile and then never look at it again?
<ali1234> then you are not a hoarder
<brobostigon> ali1234: but i make sure, everything i own, always works, i dont want to own anything, which i cant use, however old.
<brobostigon> ali1234: back form my first amstrad, to the thinkpad, i had at college.
<ali1234> when you drink a coke, do you throw out the empty can?
<MartijnVdS> I tend to keep 1 machine per architecture
<ali1234> if so, you are not a hoarder
<brobostigon> ali1234: it goes into the recycling, to be made into something else, yes.
<ali1234> are there rooms in your house that you can't go in because there is literally no empty space in them at all?
<ali1234> if the answer is no, you are not a hoarder
<brobostigon> ali1234: quite, but under a certain definition, hoarding has been unsed.
<ali1234> i suppose it's not so much an addiction as an extreme aversion to throwing stuff out
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good idea, but i think i will keep my BeBox and my ibook, even if they are both powerpc.
<ali1234> however, the two things are related in my opinion
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sure, they're quite different :)
<ali1234> addiction is just an aversion to withdrawl
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have a Windows PC and a Linux PC as well :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont think design, like with the BeBox will be dont again.
<brobostigon> ,:)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that too
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and its madly rare, a machine aswell.
<brobostigon> ali1234: or, is it a form of OCD?
<ali1234> is any purely psychological addiction OCD?
<ali1234> i don't know, i'm not a doctor :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you just play one on the interwebs?
<directhex> brobostigon, well.actually.cat, the BeBox is an AT&T Hobbit, not PPC, no?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have ocd, it is part of my autism, it is neurological here. in my local, i have to have a certain stool, in a certain position, in a certain part of the bar, otherwise it is uncomfortable,
<brobostigon> directhex: powerpc.
<brobostigon> directhex: they made both.
<brobostigon> directhex: there earlier version  were hobbit, and then moved to powerpc.
<directhex> ah
<brobostigon> directhex: mainly because, the stopped making hobbits, :)
<directhex> also, hobbits hate adventures
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> just attach a Gandalf modem?
<brobostigon> lol
<mattt> ohai
<MartijnVdS> matttman
<mattt> MartijnVdS: HAAAI
<gebbione> is there any solutions to the amazingly bad moonlight experience?
<ali1234> blame it on the boogie?
<gebbione> no blame, just fact
<directhex> gebbione, moonlight is dead. the solution is not to use it
<gebbione> directhex, it is not a client's choice
<gebbione> i d rather not use it but i need it for a site where i watch some on demand content
<directhex> tough. it's a dead project with no upstream developers.
<gebbione> so for silverlight on ubuntu what do you use?
<directhex> perhaps if at some point in its development history a single community member had become a contributor, it might have survived
<ali1234> isn't silverlight basically dead too?
<directhex> gebbione, you don't. silverlight on ubuntu is dead, courtesy of community hubris. just find the nearest person shouting "silverlight is the devil, flash is our saviour because adobe loves free software" and give them a hug
<ali1234> lol
<directhex> ali1234, that too. although it's still used in some VoD content, including the UK parliament streaming site
<ali1234> silverlight is a joke, i've never seen a single website that uses it
<directhex> clearly you're not a participant in your democracy then!
<ali1234> pretty much
<gebbione> lol
<directhex> also aebn, the biggest vod porn vendor
<gebbione> it is like gov based sites that tend to use it i think because most consultancies use IIS
<directhex> and the occasional radio or tv site
<ali1234> i always vote for whoever is most likely to unseat the incumbent
<directhex> itv used to stream with silverlight, which worked with a 100% free software stack. can't view the flash-based replacement without proprietary flash
<directhex> go go free software
<ali1234> i figure by the that way they'll always be kicked out before they can do any serious damage
<s-fox> HI
<directhex> i probably spent more than a hundred hours on moonlight packaging.
<gebbione> damn
<directhex> including a copyright audit of every single file
<directhex> since it embeds mono, that's more than 40k files
<brobostigon> wow
<directhex> i may have been drunk for part of it.
<brobostigon> understandable.
<directhex> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-mono/packages/moon.git;a=blob;f=debian/copyright;h=bccd3f55ade0a7b647b794520df9ef10a709d393;hb=HEAD
<gebbione> it d be nice if there was just something that would let you either download the stream or connect from a client like vlc
<directhex> there might be. at the back-end it'll likely be windows media server
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<directhex> sleep is for the weak
<dogmatic69> o/
<directhex> the weak and squishy!
<dogmatic69> o.o http://www.brendangregg.com/Specials/onstat
<hamitron> hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-09
<Azelphur> this is becoming frustrating, setting up a SFTP only account seems to be difficult :(
<popey> $morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> how's sunny and warm california
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<popey> sunny and warm
<TheOpenSourcerer> warm(ish) and damp here :-(
<popey> boooo
<DJones> Morning all
<mattt> morning morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> yay i've got a weekend pass out to OGGCAMP :)
<s-fox> Good morning =)
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how are you doing ?
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> s-fox: got my pass out to oggcamp so i'm a happy bunny, just hope i'm not working that weekend lol
<s-fox> MooDoo,  woot :-)
<s-fox> Hi diplo
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Anyone heard of Zentyal ?
<diplo> zentyal.org ?
<MooDoo> can't say i have, looks interesting though
<diplo> And if so, the community project seems to be all GPL'd, does anyone who understands this more than me know that If I rebranded the web interface with my companies logos etc that I would be in any violations ?
<diplo> My understanding of licensing is awful at it's best, with windows licensing I used to get someone in it used to confuse me so much :D
<diplo> Basically the boss wants us to replace a revenue stream but doesnt want our customers to know what projects we use for the software
<MooDoo> diplo: probably best to drop them a quick email, see what they thing
<MooDoo> think
<diplo> Yeah, jumped on irc channel but is rather empty :( so will try that aswell, want to make sure it does everything we want first
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Use SME Server at the mo, and it sucks.. well I don't like it which is good enough for me
<s-fox> I would encourage an email, but also perhaps ring them?
<diplo> Looks like they are spanish based so email is a good start for me, my spanish goes to the extent of ordering some beer :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: got enough testimonials yet?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I would welcome any support from different areas of the community :)
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Cheers guys, found some posts as well about it from the CEO of Zentyal on their forums
<diplo> Perfectly fine to as it's GPL, but he thinks it's unethical and that you should become a partner
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo we use Zentyal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Works well.
<diplo> oooh
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've had lunch with the CEO too ;-)
<diplo> I've been debating it fro  months, now been asked by the MD to officially look at it
<diplo> You guys partners TheOpenSourcerer ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The next one (3) should really kick arse. Full AD replacement ussing Samba 4
<TheOpenSourcerer> No.
<diplo> Just downloading beta version right now :)
<diplo> Also VM/2.2
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our email system has been running happily on 2.1 for a couple of years now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No issues to report - it just works.
<diplo> Great, thanks for the input. First person that i sort of know that has used it so makes me feel more confident
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, what were you doing up @ 4am?
<TheOpenSourcerer> huh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> when?
<oimon> ah, my irc time stamps have gone wrong
<oimon> says that it is 5:26 now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> says 09:26 here
<oimon> what was popey doing up at 8am UK time?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Need to get on the phone. New OpenERP prospect awaits! :-D
 * oimon notices that xchat is very proactive at updating timestamps if you change time zone
<oimon> clinton cards is in trouble. tbh i wonder how they made money, since i could never find a decent card in there
<oimon> devops_borat has wisdom today: You know open source product is impossible of use when creator is start consultancy around it.
<DJones> oimon: He was probably going to bed after partying the night away
<oimon> i don't think i can make it past 11pm nowadays
<oimon> 10.30 would be a push
<DJones> I know that feeling
<s-fox> Anyone else think that the new EU directive is confusing as hell and that some clarity should be added for Google Analytics users?
<s-fox> ^ cookie directive
<s-fox> lol
<MooDoo> isn't it, "if you cause a user to download a cookied to their machine, they need to agree to it first" ?
<s-fox> well, that is my rough take on it but i am not certain
<MooDoo> yeah i think that's pretty much it, there are exceptions for shopping carts etx
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<shauno> is there an exception for a cookie remembering their cookie preference?
<hoover> morning all
<hoover> can somebody help me configuring the wall of desktops in ubuntu 2d?
<hoover> I'm using 2d when connecting to my work desktop via nomachine
<hoover> usually I have six desktops without previews / slide aligned horiz.
<hoover> using 2d, it turns into 2 rows of 3 desktops each
<hoover> Is it possible to change that somehow?
<oimon> has anyone read and understood what changes paypal are applying to the user agreement?
<awilkins> Not read it yet
<hoover> haven't read it yet either
<diplo> Seen it, skimmed it and forgot about it.
<diplo> I'll wait for G+/Twitter from everyone else :)
<oimon> i notice that cross border fees are much higher if you pay on ccard
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> hello
<oimon> v quiet again today
<hoover> morning davmor2
<hoover> can somebody help me with ubuntu 2d via nomachine?
<davmor2> I can't no
<oimon> i use nomachine but with a SL server
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 how are you this fine day
<davmor2> MooDoo: half asleep I fear
<MooDoo> davmor2: coffee?
<davmor2> MooDoo: beside me cooling down as we type
<MooDoo> davmor2: good man!
<MooDoo> davmor2: got my passout to oggcamp stamped :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: What did you have to promise to get that dude :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: she hasn't decided yet lol
<oimon> now that they are making underwear bombs..do we have to take those off @ security too?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh that's never a good thing now it gets held over your head like the sword of damaclees or however it's spelt
<awilkins> Damocles. Was also a cool game from the 8-bit era
<awilkins> Oh, ok, 16-bit era
<MooDoo> davmor2: it was the only way she'd let me go on a jolly :)
<hoover> lol
<hoover> compulsory string tanga garments for all air passengers
<hoover> or make'em fly nekkit, should be fun
<oimon> i don't even own a passport anymore
<oimon> prefer to be treated like a human being when i travel
 * awilkins MUST NOT DOWNLOAD the modern port of Mercenary, Damocles, and the third game he didn't know about
<oimon> awilkins, where mustn't you download them from?
<awilkins> http://mercenarysite.free.fr/mddclone.htm <- here
<oimon> reminds me of ixion for the archimedes
<awilkins> The puzzles were involved
<awilkins> And you  could fly around and blow up planets
<oimon> have you played machinarium? thats a sweet puzzle game
<awilkins> I played a demo
<awilkins> I think I may even have it in a Humble bundle somewhere
<oimon> it was part of indie bundle
<awilkins> I have INdeie 2
<awilkins> And Frozen Synapse
<awilkins> Ah, there is is
<awilkins> I never got Braid working properly
<oimon> really?
<oimon> works fine for me
<awilkins> Maybe it was a peculiarity of the setup
<oimon> just realised i bought some cool games
<awilkins> 64-bit Linux
<oimon> and yet it mvoes.
<oimon> super meat boy...
<awilkins> I've not played a lot of these
<awilkins> Not completed most of the ones I have played
<awilkins> Osmos is nice to relax with
<oimon> never even knew i had gratuitous space battles
<awilkins> I was tempted by that
<davmor2> awilkins: works here on 64bit and on intel gfx too
<awilkins> I got very frustrated with Revenge of the Titans
<oimon> they must have sneakily added a load more after i purchased
<oimon> what's this nightsky thing?
<awilkins> Ooh, Trine
 * awilkins beats his hand with a steel ruler until he gets back to configuring Redmine
 * oimon uses redmine
<awilkins> Do you use the Mylyn plugin?
<awilkins> It seems to work, huzzah
<oimon> no, what's that?
<awilkins> Mylyn is this integrated task tracker for Eclipse
<awilkins> It does freakishly useful stuff like remembering all the source files you had open when you last touched that task
<oimon> i use redmine for helpdesk issues :P
<awilkins> So you push it's purple button and *zap* everything is back where you left it
<awilkins> We have HPOV. We hates it *spit*
<oimon> hmm i had a folder in dropbox which has been deleted.
<oimon> ah..was using my other dropbox acct ..phew
<oimon> need to face facts that i don't have enough time to play games
<oimon> no more buying bundles for me
<oimon> shank looks like double dragon on steroids
 * awilkins just had a scary moment when he thought he'd shanked a production server
<awilkins> *phew
<hoover> I've bought two bundles so far and only tried "crayon physics deluxe" a few weeks ago ;-D
<awilkins> slas
<oimon> hoover, i tried that, seemed fun.
<oimon> i don't have staying power anymore
<hoover> oimon: yep, the kids love it
<oimon> i really should carry on with world of goo
<hoover> neither have I, a bit of simracing and Falcon BMS here and there, the occasional nethack session, but that's it
<oimon> cogs looks fun too
<yothsoggoth> I bought the bundle with Frozen Synapse, that's a pretty awesome game
<hoover> Trine also looks great, but my HW can't handle it
<oimon> my graphics were not powerful enough for those...
<hoover> my linux desktop has become dog-slow since the latest LMDE update
 * hoover ponders installing precise on it again
<oimon> my battery life increased by 50% from 11.10->12.04
<oimon> well, the battery indicator suggests a 50% longer life..
<hoover> yep it runs great on my netbook even through upgrading
<hoover> I had massive stability problems with anything beyond 10.04 on my desktop though
<hoover> I think I'll give the live usb stick a try again soon
<hoover> I'm not happy with LMDE anymore
<MooDoo> hmmm i need to get rid of windows 7 and put precise on it
<hoover> win7 is a great game launcher ;-)
<zleap> hoover,  LMDE, i read something about that somewhere
<zleap> in relation to lubuntu
<oimon> heh samorost 2 is cute
<hoover> cheers all
<MooDoo> :)
<moviebun> Any users of movie editing software within Ubuntu on here at the moment?
 * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of popey 
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI
<moviebun> Ah - thanks. I think he's off at UDS at the moment.
<moviebun> Movie editing was the main thing that attracted me to Ubuntu - hopefully there will be a few others with similar backgrounds and interests popping up in due course.
<moviebun> ... and if not, I'll try again later! :-)
<DJones> moviebun: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu as well, bigger channel so maybe more chance of a response, if not, as you say, try again later
<BigRedS> What's the currently fashionable way to extract movie files from DVDs?
<MooDoo> BigRedS: install wine, and use dvdshrink is the way i do it
<moviebun> Thanks DJones - this is my first foray into ubuntu-uk though have been listining to the podcast for a good while.
<DJones> BigRedS: Last time I did any, I used https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DVD%3A%3ARip
<awilkins> BigRedS, Use Handbrake
<awilkins> https://launchpad.net/~handbrake-ubuntu/+archive/ppa
<BigRedS> yeah, I checked DVD::Rip but saw the instructions date from 7.04...
<BigRedS> I'll try handbrake
<BigRedS> ta!
<oimon> BigRedS, raw extraction or re-encoding?
<BigRedS> I just want a video file I can watch on my laptop with now DVD drive
<oimon> beware it takes a while and the laptop will try to cook your lap
<BigRedS> I'll be ripping it on my PC here
<BigRedS> and I've got twice the length of the film to do it in
<BigRedS> :)
<oimon> which film btw?
<BigRedS> captain america
<oimon> i notice playing of dvds is still non-trivial, even after installing restricted-extras, you have to run a script hiding somewhere that downloads and installs a deb file. i have to google this every time i watch a dvd on a new PC
<BigRedS> I was goaded into watching the rest of the run-ups to the avengers film beforeseeing it
<BigRedS> but missed this one, and only afterwards do I find out this is the one with nazis in it
<ali1234> it's also supposed to be the worst one
<awilkins> They used to sell codec packs in the store, but they stopped
<BigRedS> ali1234: that's probably fine, I have famously low standards :)
<awilkins> I liked Captain America
<awilkins> More than I used to like his comics
<moviebun> BigRedS: My interest is centered around non-commercial dvds that aren't protected and where I have permission to excerpt and edit the video, so it's a matter of extracting the vobs into a folder. I tend to take them from there into a NLE.
<oimon> just seen EA's screenshot of lord of ultima...ermm
<awilkins> Not seen Hulk
<awilkins> Saw Thor on a transatlantic flight
<ali1234> moviebun: does using a real video editor in windows running inside virtualbox with ubuntu as host OS count?
<oimon> awilkins, was he going on holiday?
<DJones> I think its disappointing that Avengers Assemble doesn't have Patrick McNee, Diana Rigg and Honor Blackman in it
<moviebun> ali1234: Which editor?
<ali1234> premier mostly
<moviebun> I'm using Kdenlive and OpenShot - not sure which I like most.
<awilkins> Yegods, I have a powerful urge to drink right now. It's not even 1500
<moviebun> Kdenlive has a stack of features, but OpenShot seems to be catching up.
<awilkins> I am livening up the tedium by naming projects "CODPIECE"
<ali1234> they're both horribly buggy
<awilkins> (with a proper acronym to justify it)
<ali1234> and that's compared to premier, which is famously buggy to start with
<ali1234> i've never successfully done anything with openshot without hitting at least one bug
<moviebun>  I think it's why I can't decide between them right now. If it's anything complex, I tend to use Kdenlive - but I like some of the rendering options in OpenShot, especially for the web. Don't have any experience of Premier.
<yothsoggoth> yeah, whichever video editor you use just make sure you save very, very often.  Like ali1234 said they're all really buggy
<ali1234> oh you don't want to use openshot default exports, they don't work properly at all
<ali1234> they will either cut off the first or last second of video
<ali1234> or the picture comes out upside down, or reversed YUV
<moviebun> yothsoggoth: Been caught out there a few times, I have!
<ali1234> also please note that blu-ray authoring is currently impossible on linux
<moviebun> Still good to see some Linux alternatives to proprietary software. I read a good comparison of the field in a copy of Linux Format a couple of years back. One of the few magazines I saved rather than recycling after reading!
<yothsoggoth> moviebun: and me. I remember spending about an hour editing some footage that needed sounds syncing to match some scenes, to lost the entire thing due to OpenShot crashing
<oimon> i have zillions of linux magazines i keep , but should really recycle
<moviebun> yothsoggoth: Heck yes - nowadays I save the project in Kdenlive about every 5 minutes while adding clips and editing them. And if I make a title clip, I always save after doing it as having to start again gets really irritating.
<oimon> why so crashy?
<moviebun> oimin: Have you come across Full Circle Magazine?
<oimon> it's worrying that linux used to be known for rock solid apps
<oimon> moviebun, yes, i read it occasionally
<ali1234> it's not just that they are crashy
<oimon> i subscribe to linux magazine
<ali1234> they also miss basic features so everything takes 10 times longer than it would in a real editor
<oimon> :(
<ali1234> so you're likely to get 10x as many crashes on the same project, even if they were equally buggy
<oimon> however, linux used to be solid (even fedora) before KDE , Gmone and unity decided to re-write everything,just crashier
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> there's too much IPC now
<ali1234> just encourages deadlocks
<oimon> new 12.04 users will experience many bugs and crashes that were an alien concept a few years ago
<moviebun> Dunno why - maybe it's the complexity of the tasks? When a project has 10 clips of different sources, title clips, transitions, compositing and then rendering it all to one format, maybe that introduces a lot of points where a crash can happen?
<oimon> movie maker didn't have this issue in 2002
<oimon> or the pinnacle app i was using
<ali1234> all the backend in both openshot and kdenlive is done by melt
<ali1234> melt is like an even more buggy and crashy version of gstreamer
<oimon> why don't they fix it?
<oimon> they=everyone
<ali1234> it's a script based system
<ali1234> and if you make 1 typo in the script it segfaults
<ali1234> it has zero error checking
<davmor2> oimon: there your next project
<moviebun> oimin: the Kdenlive forum has a post or two from people trying it in Ubuntu 12.04 and discussing their experiences. Not entirely smooth, But then again, when I first tried Kdenlive in Ubuntu 10.04 from the Software Center, I was missing a bunch of greyed out profiles.
<oimon> davmor2, doesn't sound like something you can easily "dip into"...
<davmor2> oimon: that's the point you can't assume that unless you know how codecs etc work that you can work on it with any ease
<oimon> however ali1234 sounds knowledgeable..:)
<ali1234> the reason nobody fixes it is because everyone with any sense is perfectly happy using something else
<gord> heh, the idea that the open source ecosystem didn't used to be buggy, funny
<ali1234> same reason why nobody fixes unity really
<oimon> gord, been using since '99 , and never experienced bugs as much as ubuntu in 2012.
<ali1234> same
<oimon> debian stable seems happy to work properly
<oimon> yesterday i got a bluetooth crash even though bluetooth isn't enabled on the laptop, then it asked me to run hcidump which isn't installed
<oimon> all i wanted to do was quickly check my bank balance.
<oimon> there's a lot more papercuts, like not being able to shutdown from the lightdm screen if another user is logged into a session
<gord> ubuntu 12.04 seems to work properly for me, so by the same logic the open source ecosystem has never been more bug free
<ali1234> yes but there's two of use and one of you, which means you;re wrong
<ali1234> specifically, it means your assertion is unsupported annecdote
<jpds> oimon: It would be most rude to shutdown the system with someone else in.
<moviebun> stability is so important - I'd rather have stability than the very latest features any day
<MooDoo> moviebun: switch to debian ;) :p
<oimon> jpds, it lets me when i'm logged in to the session
<oimon> so either it should ask me to authenticate or give a helpful error
<oimon> rather than do nothing
<Guest87126> Is there a global menu-bar for Eclipse?
<ali1234> none helpful errors.. yes, ubuntu is full of them
<ali1234> like the one you get from mythtv
<ali1234> "cannot"
<jpds> oimon: Are you a sudo user?
<oimon> bug 681171
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 681171 in Internet Archive - Tech Support "items not online; last action was regress.php in item history" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681171
<oimon> woops
<oimon> bug 861171
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 861171 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "Shutdown from greeter does nothing when multiple accounts open" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861171
<moviebun> MooDoo: :-) I've tried AVLinux - that's Debian-based. Has a stack of (logically) audio-visual programs including Kdenlive and OpenShot.
<oimon> ", everybody agrees that the issue is annoying, but the bug is not fixed yet is due to lack of manpower (and the fact that the bug is not that trivial to fix), not because the settings were not set higher, setting to High but it's not going to automagically resolve the issue..."
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/82886662/Screenshot%20at%202011-10-15%2018%3A49%3A03.png
<oimon> there's a point where you are drowning in bugs if all you do is make software with more bugs
<ali1234> yeah. this software is too buggy
<ali1234> clearly we should throw it out and just start over
<hamitron> there's an idea ;)
<MooDoo> if your spotting bugs i hope you're logging bug reports :)
<moviebun> newbuntu!
<oimon> MooDoo, if not already reported and not a design "feature" i collect them to the end of the week and report them
<ali1234> aka the bogus approach to software design
<MooDoo> awesome :D
<davmor2> A new android popey has been created it seems http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151006799790499&set=a.231853995498.181285.121867580498&type=1
<oimon> maybe we should bomb their comments and say popey?
<davmor2> I was thinking about it :D
<oimon> looking at the t-shirts on threadless.com, i would buy them, except for the horrible hipster types they have wearing them stops me at the last minute. if they just showed the tshirt i would buy.
<mattt> oimon: ha
<mattt> oimon: goofy reason to not buy a cool tee :)
<ali1234> being a hipster is so mainstream now
<ali1234> *flicks hair*
<oimon> ^hair^beard
<oimon> always wary about buying from the states as their sizes are weird
<oimon> found a weird bug with my phone (htc desire)
<oimon> power off phone. charge the phone, then unplug from charger and press power-on within a few seconds of removing cable.
 * DJones passes oimon a can of raid
<oimon> then cannot power on phone unless battery is removed
<oimon> do t-mobile charge for calling 150?
<MooDoo> oimon: don't think so as they are owned by orange, well i hope not as i rang them the other day lol
<oimon> i've disocvered i can't login to their site
<oimon> since they never sent me an email to confirm, and i've lost the username :-\
<diplo> Afternoon, That was a horrible drive back from Nottingham
<MooDoo> diplo: rain?
<diplo> yah, and complete ahems on the M5
<MooDoo> diplo: crappy weather
<diplo> One guy in a merc doing 80/90 touching his breaks every 5 seconds, never knowing if he was going to break or not.
<oimon> what is it about mercs/bmw and audi?
<oimon> the indicators don't work on those cars
<diplo> Yeah, and switching the bloomin lights on when it;s torrential rain!
<oimon> i even see learners not using indicators
<diplo> Couldn't see half of them
<MooDoo> i'm on a motorbike so i have to be tripply careful
<oimon> i just broke t-mobile automated sstem
<diplo> not replaced my bike yet
<diplo> Do I try and upgrade my VPS tonight, or am I too tired :D
<MooDoo> diplo: how easy to upgrade?  does it need anything thinking?
<andylockran> anyone on fasthosts in here and using their API ?
<diplo> not looked yet MooDoo, BitFolk if you have tried
<MooDoo> diplo: no not got a vps with them.
<diplo> Bit of light reading for a few minutes and backup afew config files and then give it a go I guess.
<MooDoo> reading?  pah leave it then ;)
<oimon> why do phone companies need 30 days to cancel a 24 months contract?
<oimon> what a scam
<oimon> we all know when it finishes
<diplo> I'm tired, better not make to many mistakes :D
<oimon> anyone on giffgaff?
<oimon> is their unltd internet actually unltd?
<diplo> o/
<diplo> Yup, to a fairly large extreme oimon
<oimon> t-mobie didn't really want to hang on to me
<diplo> They have had a few users who have abused it to the likes of 15-20gb a month i think
<diplo> Who had been warned
<diplo> If you check on the forums ( I did when I signed up ) and there was details on the limits
<shauno> find it a bit odd that 15-20gb is abuse on a smartphone, but it's what I'm contracted on a dongle
<diplo> tbh though, I rarely hit more than a gb a month
<oimon> which price plan you on diplo ?
<diplo> I don't think it's abuse shauno, it's just mobiles aren't thought/designed to use that amount so they havent allowed for it.
<diplo> Â£10, 250mins/Unlimited text/Unlimited Data
<oimon> yep, looking at that one
<oimon> i can cancel at any time?
<diplo> They keep recommending me the Â£5
<diplo> Yep, monthly
<oimon> what's the Â£5 ?
<diplo> Can't remember, but I think for Â£5 a month extra I'd rather have plenty of mins
<diplo> I'd rather have enough and not get caught out for Â£5 :)
<oimon> i don't use minutes
<oimon> and 20 text per month max
<oimon> i might start on Â£10 though
<oimon> t-mob were 10.50 for a 12-month
<oimon> and "unlimited internet" is 250mb
<diplo> Me either normally, but this month I've used over 150 because I went to a customer site and there phones weren't working, so I had to use my phone... would have been charged a fair bit if i wasn't on it
<oimon> if my wife were on giffgaff too, i could use Â£5 one
<diplo> heh, my friends still on T-Mobile when they had the umlimited proper and still gets it
<oimon> i do too
<oimon> well, android is 3gb.
<diplo> yeah I've bought my kids that so we can text/chat for free
<oimon> giffgaff is o2 right?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> Only had 1 issue recently. Had a huge outing  a month or two ago and it took out there network for a few hours, flooding I think.
<oimon> happens to anyone
<diplo> But they have / are resolving it so it doesn't happen again
<diplo> Exactly my thoughts
<oimon> o2 are quite expensive though
<diplo> Except they did have all there eggs in one basket
<diplo> Bloody expensive yeah, it's why I didnt use them again
<diplo> Simplicity deal was ok for mins/texts but no data
<diplo> So giffGaff won out
<diplo> Explicit no tethering though on GiffGaff ( Not sure how they detect ? )
<oimon> 3 mobile are cheap too
<oimon> diplo, i would tether on holiday hmm
<diplo> yeah, get fairly bad reception in my house on three where I receive most calls/texts so they were out
<diplo> I have tethered, and nowts been said
<diplo> Not sure how they detect apart from network traffic headers maybe
<DJones> diplo: I'm thinking about changing to giffgaff so I can connect my tablet via the wifi hotspot on my phone
<diplo> DJones, I guess they wouldn't know the tablet is tethered, could be a tablet with a sim card
<diplo> I'd like to know how they detect it tbh
<awilkins> They've not detected me tethering
<awilkins> I'd imagine my phone has very similar traffic to my laptop though, it's an N900
<DJones> PLus they're both android, both have the same login's etc and wouldn't be silly use downloading ubuntu iso's etc, just normal browsing, email etc, I doub't that would be noticed
<oimon> diplo, how did you do the PAC code with giffgaff?
<oimon> i've ordered the sim already, but bought nothing on it
<diplo> I didn't I'm afraid, I decided with the wife leaving me etc I'd start out all fresh with a new number, but PAC code process is very simple online from what I have heard from Friends
<oimon> do you wanna earn referrer points?
<shauno> I'm still trying to find a carrier that has data roaming nailed.  some of the prices are obscene
<diplo> ooh yeah, I always forget :D
<diplo> two secs thanks!
<oimon> do you need my mob number?
<jpds> shauno: Â£10 a month if obscene?
<diplo> Just checking
<jpds> shauno: is*
<jpds> oimon: Should just need your giffgaff username.
<shauno> jpds: that'd include roaming to other countries?
<jpds> shauno: Ah, right; best to go local then.
<diplo> oimon, already got your sim ?
<oimon> nope
<oimon> it's in the post
<oimon> i haven't requested PAC from tmob yet , so will have to wait 30 days before activating
<diplo> Ooh ok, hmm so basicaly 500 points if you order sim via my sim page
<diplo> 200 points if you use my username
<oimon> so we missed it already?
<oimon> is voice mail free btw?
<diplo> If and when you register just say partiuk reffered you
<diplo> I'll get 200 points
<diplo> Do you know what, I haven't had to retrieve one since being on and hadn't check prior
<oimon> diplo, will do
<diplo> I'll check now
<diplo> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/partiuk
<diplo> If you don't receive your SIM, re-order via that
<diplo> :)
<oimon> what are points anyway?
<diplo> money, 500 points = Â£5
<DJones> Could you just not order another sim anyway?
<diplo> For every person you recruit you'll earn payback cash.1 recruit (1 activated SIM)= 500 pts / Â£5
<DJones> And just activate that one, not the original one ordered
<diplo> Yeah DJones he could, I think i did that with popey
<diplo> oimon : dial 443 for voicemail. it costs 8p or 1minute of goodybag.
<diplo> from the forums
<oimon> 1minute from minutes is fine
<oimon> t-mob was ripoff, i used hullomail mp3 voicemail instead
<diplo> I think the same thing, not a big talker :D
<oimon> so you enter the PAC code when you activate the SIM/
<diplo> http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/96/kw/transfer%20your%20number/r_id/166
<diplo> It says make sure it's activated first
<oimon> diplo FTW
<oimon> thanks
<moviebun> currently sipping a cold drink while installing 12.04 to a spare drive
<moviebun> ....an experience that would be more enjoyable had I not come home to a dead bird brought in by the cat. Yuk!
<MartijnVdS> moviebun: remember: it's not a gift, it's a warning
<moviebun> MartiijnVdS: That's not what I told the cat! :-)
<MartijnVdS> moviebun: but it is what it's telling you :)
<moviebun> Makes sense. It's been eyeing me up in a funny way for a week or so. Could be cabin fever from all the wet weather. Time I cut him out of my will, I think...
<BigRedS> Nono! It'll dislike you even more!
<currymonster> Hi all, anybody recommend a vps provider for running a small mail server?
<MartijnVdS> bitfolk!
<MartijnVdS> also.. why run your own mail?
<currymonster> MartijnVds: thanks
<currymonster> who else am i gonna get to run my mail server?
<MartijnVdS> Google :)
<currymonster> how?
<MartijnVdS> currymonster: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html -> the free plan
<currymonster> thanks again
<MartijnVdS> \o/ gmail, imho :)
<currymonster> hmm basic website hosting too, bonus !!
<MartijnVdS> they have that?
<MartijnVdS> Using Google Site no doubt?
<currymonster> yup
<MartijnVdS> VPS is still useful though
<MartijnVdS> for IRC ;)
<currymonster> I would only need the vps to host email, but a basic website is a extra bonus, cheers for the google suggestion
<MartijnVdS> np
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E06  What I Saw in California - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/05/09/s05e06-what-i-saw-in-california/
<zleap> rhythm box auto downloads em,.
<MartijnVdS> so does banshee
<MartijnVdS> Where would I go to buy a cheap phone charger? (store names? :)
<zleap> i got one from amazon
<MartijnVdS> zleap: yes, except I'm flying to Gatwick tomorrow and I need a charger with a UK plug :)
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> +between landing a[Dnd sleep
<popey> MartijnVdS: airport
<MartijnVdS> popey: won't they cost Â£50 or something there?
<MartijnVdS> Airports are known for that kind of stuff
 * popey shrugs
<zleap> possibly
<MartijnVdS> Aren't there dedicated high-street mobile phone stores?
<popey> yes, loads
<popey> on most high streets
<popey> where you staying?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: laptop...?
<popey> does your phone not charge over usb?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: what kind of plug has your charger got?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Flying to Gatwick, so train ends up at Victoria, but sleep is somewhere south of the river
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: micro usb
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: not bringing my laptop :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, for mains
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: EU
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I know I can jam those in UK sockets with help of a screwdriver, but that's not very nice :)
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> popey: learned that trick at a UDS once  ;)
<gordonjcp> not MK sockets with the rotating shutter
<gordonjcp> but the ones with the earth pin slider do
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: in that case, you could use the screwdriver to disassemble the socket and use the bare wires :P
<MartijnVdS> Also
<MartijnVdS> I used to have a UK charger for my phone .. because I ordered from there
<MartijnVdS> but I thought "Meh, not needed." and threw it away :|
<MartijnVdS> <-- id10t
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: if you have a USB cable, perhaps get a mains USB adapter, or better yet bring a 4-way mains adapter with USB ports and just get a UK->Eur mains adapter
<diplo> evening ladies!
<Azelphur> with Linux, suspend is "off" right?
<Azelphur> as in, the hardware is shutdown, it just stores the ram state on the HDD and pulls it back again
<daubers> lo
<popey> Azelphur: no
<popey> Azelphur: suspend = suspend to ram = using power to keep ram alive
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> Azelphur: hibernate = suspend to disk = no power used, state held on disk
<Azelphur> I wonder why debian only offers you suspend, especially on a laptop, that seems bad
<popey> so does ubuntu
<popey> because hibernate is in general broken and slow
<popey> suspend is in general worky and fast
<Azelphur> I mean, Debian has no shutdown button
<popey> do you not mean "GNOME Shell" rather than Debian?
<popey> there is a power button on your computer
<popey> tap it
<Azelphur> yea, I tap that and it suspends
<popey> sweet
<popey> what desktop you using?
<Azelphur> and in the GUI there's only suspend option xD
<Azelphur> gnome shell lol
<popey> hold alt
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/56/shutdown-by-default/version/843/
<popey> or install that
<Azelphur> magic
<popey> or use a decent desktop
<popey> </troll>
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> just kinda doing a roam around different distros on my netbook
<Azelphur> sorta tempted to switch to sid since I like shiny new things
<brobostigon> gnome is not a decent desktop, no? short of haiku's, ?
<popey> brobostigon: don't feed the troll
<brobostigon> popey: ok,
<Azelphur> haha
 * brobostigon shuts up.
<Azelphur> popey: happen to know roughly how long a laptop would last in suspend mode?
<Azelphur> hours? days? o.O
<jacobw> test it ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> depends
<MartijnVdS> mine lasts about 4 days
<MartijnVdS> and then I have ~10 minutes of use left before it dies
<jacobw> :D
<MartijnVdS> Oooooohhhh http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1593273916/
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> how rude, microsoft dmca'd the skypeopensource project
<MartijnVdS> and that's why you use Google Talk :P
<jacobw> bah
<jacobw> microsoft
<jacobw> empathy is awesome
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Why not contribute to Ubuntu Manual - http://popey.com/blog/2012/05/09/why-not-contribute-to-ubuntu-manual/
<mattt> what happened to the #ubuntu-uk meetings ?
<YaManicKill> anyone had an issue with a recent php update on ubuntu server?
<dogmatic69> YaManicKill: what issue?
<dogmatic69> and what version
<YaManicKill> 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.15
<YaManicKill> basically, it has stopped actually calling php when it gets asked for a php file
<YaManicKill> so its just basically sending you the php file
<YaManicKill> I'm starting to think its an issue that I've created as I downgraded it and it didn't fix it
<andrewebdev> Is there a way to see what app is requesting my system password? As I'm going about my business on my ubuntu, every so often the password dialog will pop up asking for my password, even though I'm not trying to do anything that would require it
<andrewebdev> of course I cancel it
<andrewebdev> but it kinda bothers me now
<dogmatic69> YaManicKill: that is nothing to do with php, php does not handle web requests.
<YaManicKill> hmmm yeah
<dogmatic69> your web server is not initiating php properly and serving the file direct.
<YaManicKill> yeah
<dogmatic69> sounds like you updated apache and it killed your config
<YaManicKill> php is def enabled in apache though
<dogmatic69> good time to switch to cherokee ;)
<YaManicKill> helpful
<mattt> cherokee :-/
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> anyone know about SPF records? I am trying to set one up but not sure how to do it right.
<dogmatic69> I have added TXT record with 'v=spf1 a mx ~all' but that causes a soft fail as the IP is wrong.
<dogmatic69> using google apps mail to send
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-10
<Knightwise> good morning everyone
<Knightwise> how are you doing today ?
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> morning MooDoo
<AlanBell> and goodnight
<MooDoo> good night :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear. My son just came into my office before heading off to school. "Since you did that stupid upgrade to 12.04 minecraft is really slow. I can't use it anymore".  Might have to stick them back on 10.04
<popey> or just login to unity 2d
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are already - PC won't run Unity 3D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Too slow.
<popey> yet it runs minecraft?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was fine in 10.10
<popey> i find that hard to believe
<popey> reverting to 10.04 is a baby/bathwater 'solution'
<TheOpenSourcerer> The only other option is to buy/upgrade the PC
<popey> lol
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> or figure out why it's slow?
<MooDoo> evening popey uds going ok?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 11.10 wouldn't run Unity 3D either but Minecraft was fine in 2D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ban him from minecraft instead ;)
<popey> no, no, far easier to format the disk and install something else.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> yeah, went out in san fran with AlanBell and lots of others
<popey> went on a cable car which was fun
<popey> hanging on to the side as we went up and down hills
<MooDoo> nice :)
<MooDoo> pleia2 the tour guide? :)
<popey> yup
<popey> had crab for tea
<popey> and then a "one scoop" ice cream
<popey> which was immense
 * popey gets the photo of AlanBell 
<MooDoo> one scoop?
<AlanBell> oh no
<MooDoo> do you know the photo czajkowski has on her laptop when it was connected to the projector?
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> yes
<MooDoo> lol wasn't the bird pooing was it? lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<MooDoo> LOL
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thought you'd gone to bed.
<AlanBell> I am in bed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah. TMI
<popey> i am in bed too
<popey> not the same bed though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewwww
<MooDoo> ewwwwww
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> not even tha same room
<AlanBell> DIFFERENT BED
<popey> or floor
<AlanBell> and on that note, night all o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> o/
<MooDoo> o/ laters
<mattt> wow
<mattt> what'd i walk into ?
<MooDoo> mattt: don't ask :)
<DJones> Morning
<miraculous> morning
<MooDoo> morning you pair :)
<miraculous> morning DooMoo!
<DJones> Morning MooDoo & miraculous
<miraculous> hellooooo DJones \o/
<DJones> I had to think then who your nick was, then I remembered seeing the nick change yesterday
<miraculous> hehe
<miraculous> oh yes, i was amused -- we were playing trivia in #cowgirls -- apparently miraculous is the patron saint of virgins, it bemused me so i decided to nick to it
 * MooDoo obviously missed that nick change
<miraculous> (though more amusingly, the patron saint of houseviwes is apparently "saint martha" -- that is mainly amusing because i got it wrong but i responded with "martha steward haha")
<miraculous> i had no idea how close i was!
<MooDoo> ah miraculous now i know
<dwatkins> ali1234: are you around?
<dwatkins> I'm wondering if hardware acceleration is enabled by default for flash in Ubuntu, and whether turning it off is a viable solution, or if it causes videos to play slowly.
<DJones> If this was real, it'd be a great idea http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ew4Y5HLyT6c
<MooDoo> DJones: you mean it's not?  but it's got real people in the car and all that? ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Well, 2 websites have reported it as being being real..... So you never know
<miraculous> morning bigcalm
<miraculous> bigcalm: oh you can come assemble some furniture for me!
 * miraculous needs a man!
<MooDoo> DJones: phew *snigger*
<bigcalm> Every time I switch on my machine there's a crash report to send. But sending it does nothing to get rid of it
<MooDoo> miraculous: how may i help, and if it's for moving, you know i'm too far away
 * bigcalm flexes for miraculous
<miraculous> MooDoo: mmm i know, that's why i am trying to chat up bigcalm!
<bigcalm> Ha
<miraculous> i am sure hayley would let me borrow him if i returned him in decent condition!
<miraculous> :P
<bigcalm> :D
<DJones> miraculous: Whoever you get will still have 3 screws, a nut and a couple of those little plastic caps left over
<miraculous> DJones: true!
 * mattt discreetly does a /whois on miraculous
<bigcalm> I quite enjoy putting together Ikea stuff
<mattt> oh
<bigcalm> miraculous: can it wait until the 14th July? ;)
<MooDoo> mattt: she did a nick change yesterday :)
<bigcalm> Hayley and I are spending the weekend in Farnham
<miraculous> bigcalm: that is AGES away!
<miraculous> :P
<bigcalm> I know :(
<bigcalm> I actually took a day off IRC yesterday. Amazing how much work I did
<MooDoo> where are you based miraculous ?
<miraculous> farnham!
<mattt> doesn't ikea have an assembly service?  :)
<miraculous> i dunno!
<currymonster> anybody know how to alter "your path"?
<miraculous> MooDoo: though i am moving :)
<bigcalm> miraculous: where are you moving to?
<MooDoo> miraculous: i know that, just down the road right?
<currymonster> maybe i should re-phrase that
<oimon> miraculous, martha is the patron saint of housewives? lol
<miraculous> oimon: yes! apparently so - it amused me greatly!
<currymonster> I've just installed tex live, and it is asking me to make a change to 'manpath' and 'infopath', any ideas on how i do this?
<miraculous> bigcalm: not super far -- about 15mins out of town (on t'other side) to a small place called beaconhill
<oimon> martha was gently rebuked for worrying about housework rather than choosing what is greater
<miraculous> tis pretty out there (i'll be a few minutes walk from the devils punch bowl)
<bigcalm> :)
<oimon> isn't that where gladiator was filmed?
<diplo> morning all
<oimon> mornin'
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> First time using IRC from pidgin, so far not to bad tbh
<oimon> i used it for years, but switched to xchat recently
<MooDoo> i'm fine with irssi
<diplo> heh just reinstalled VPS last night MooDoo, not got that far yet
<oimon> called t-mobile to cancel last night. they weren't able to match giffgaff or 3 mobile on price
<diplo> And not reinstalled XChat since installing 12.04
<MooDoo> diplo: did the upgrade go ok, or did you have to totally rebuild?
<diplo> It's fine if you are happy with your phone I guess oimon
<oimon> yeah till there is a decent ubuntu phone i will be happy
<diplo> I blatted both my PC and my VPS so no upgrades to speak of unfortunatly
<oimon> (i mean dockable android phone that turns into ubuntu)
<diplo> I do like that, not sure about it still yet
<diplo> Get an Atrix off of Ebay oimon?
<oimon> aren't they quite old?
<diplo> It's what Canonical are developing this against
<oimon> they aren't dual core though are they?
 * diplo = dumbass :(
<diplo> Left my PSU for laptop in Nottingham
<diplo> OSAndroid OS, v2.2 (Froyo), upgradable to v2.3ChipsetNvidia Tegra 2 AP20HCPUDual-core 1 GHz Cortex-A9
<diplo> Yupsy, sounds like the Desire tbh
<diplo> http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_atrix-3709.php
<oimon> i can wait until hopefully a vendor will produce a new phone designed for it
<oimon> i am tempted by the Â£5 giffgaff deal now
<diplo> I got given a Wildfire ( Buzz ) it's slow but I'll wait till I can afford to buy another phone
<oimon> yeah my sister has a waildfire. i told her to get the desire but she thought better
<oimon> she was wrong
<gordonjcp> oimon: I've got a giffgaff sim you can have
<gordonjcp> which has most of a Â£5 gigabag on it
<gordonjcp> totally unusable here, since I only get GPRS coverage
<diplo> oimon: Put a new rom on for her ?
<oimon> gordonjcp, thanks for the offer, but i've just ordered one - save it for when ur on holiday!
<oimon> diplo, the screen is pretty small/lame though imo
<diplo> Made a huge difference to mine
<oimon> really? ok i'll try then
<oimon> CM or HTC rom?
<diplo> It is, but using Cyagen has made all the difference, longer battery etc
<diplo> More space
<oimon> anyone using SIP for calls?
<diplo> I can't complain as mine was a freebie
<diplo> Nope, keep meaning to try it.
<oimon> seems cheap. and i'm on wifi most of the day
<oimon> and i don't make calls (much)
<diplo> Same here, that's why I keep meaning to look at it. I'm on wifi apart from when I'm in the car really.. be it work/friends/swimming lessons.. Just about everywhere :)
<s-fox> Hi
<diplo> 'ello
<MooDoo> hi s-fox
<s-fox> Hello diplo and MooDoo
<emorris> hi, I'm half way through an upgrade to 12.04, but have lost keyboard and mouse activity on the machine, and I need to answer a dialog. I am using a KVM switch to switch between that and another PC, so that may have upset it. Is there anything I can do? I do have SSH access. Thanks in advance!
<s-fox> Hi emorris , is it a wired mouse / keyboard?
<dwatkins> if you have x11vnc, you could remote control the machine's graphical console
<emorris> s-fox, yes, usb
<bigcalm> emorris: can you plug them in directly, bypassing the KVM switch?
<emorris> dwatkins, unfortunately I don't. I did think of that, but can't install it as a package manager is already running
<emorris> bigcalm, tried that, same problems
<emorris> the light in the mouse and the caps lock light comes on, but no response. I can't event turn caps lock on/off
<dwatkins> emorris: have you got the option of attaching a PS2 keyboard, perhaps?
<emorris> dwatkins, unfortunately I don't have one with me. If there's no other option, I could borrow one later on though
<dwatkins> emorris: if it were my machine, I'd kill the installation on the console via ssh and use apt within a screen session on the command line
<diplo> Do we have any nginx users here ?
<emorris> dwatkins, annoyingly, I don't have screen installed either. I think I might be able to do it over a serial port though
<dwatkins> emorris: you can just kill whatever's on the console then install GNU screen in theory, emorris - depends what's running in X, though
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<diplo> Morning JamesTait
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> !xorg
<lubotu3> The X Window system is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart X, type 'sudo /etc/init.d/lightdm' on an ubuntu system. replace with kdm on Kubuntu. To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution . Also see !xorgconf
<brobostigon> !xserver-xorg-core
<lubotu3> brobostigon: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<brobostigon> !info xserver-xorg-core
<lubotu3> xserver-xorg-core (source: xorg-server): Xorg X server - core server. In component main, is optional. Version 2:1.11.4-0ubuntu10 (precise), package size 1636 kB, installed size 4137 kB
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how's it going buddy?
<diplo> Anyone do me a favour, just nmap 85.119.82.250
<diplo> What ports are open ? should be 22/80
<MooDoo> diplo: ssh and http
<MooDoo> diplo: yes just 22 and 80
<TheOpenSourcerer> agreed. It's an Ubuntu machine with 22 & 80 open
<TheOpenSourcerer> nginx running on 80
<diplo> Thanks MooDoo
<diplo> Sorry got called out of the office :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: good thanks dude, just missed out on the ea plenary so I'll catch up with that tonight, I got shadowman installed and for a game from 1999 it still rocks
<davmor2> I love wine
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<oimon> plenary reminds me of my son, who calls piano plano
<MooDoo> davmor2: awesome
<oimon> is wine preferred over dosbox  for  a '99 game?
<davmor2> oimon: it's not a dos game so yes
<oimon> :P
<oimon> which OS is it for? i thought win98 was the prevalent OS at the time
<davmor2> oimon: yeap windows 95+ but works flawlessly on xp
<davmor2> oimon: it was out the same kinda time as the very first tombraider but look at this for graphics http://ubuntuone.com/6ouQQBBaQ2yFN2WGiQykhw
<oimon> not sure if good or bad...
<diplo> bad!
<diplo> :P
<oimon> tomb raider was quite good graphics
<oimon> i remember some scenes took my breath away
<diplo> Just bought my kids a Sega pack for the Xbox 360, they love it but I was cringing at the graphics but the gameplay was ok
<davmor2> oimon: http://www.tombraiders.net/katie/screenshots/tr1/lara1.shtml that is tombraider in comparison
<diplo> I remember playing that
<diplo> :P
<davmor2> oimon: the only thing that really dates it is the video cut scenes
<davmor2> oimon: I'll have a proper play on it tonight and see if I can't take a breathtaking screenshot for you :D
<davmor2> oimon: better still you can see for yourself http://www.old-games.com/download/5851/shadow-man :D
<oimon> there were some large room scenes in TR that were great.
<oimon> not quite as dark as those on that site
<oimon> i don't think i've completed many games since TR
<oimon> except for TR II
<oimon> and rsident evils...all those games that give you heart attacks when they make you jump
<oimon> tomb raider 9 is coming out soon :-\
<davmor2> is anyone else seeing the buttons on the right after the latest updates?
<DJones> Tomb Raider 9 ? I didn't know there was anything after Tomb Raider 1.... Is it going to be like Die Hard 46 with Bruce Willis on a zimmerframe beating the care assistants up up in his retirement home for not giving him the right cosnsitency of gruel
<oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOVbF8qLCCA gameplay from 1yr ago
<diplo> DJones: Some of the later games are great tbh
<diplo> Got one on the PS3 that I am sooo stuck on
<diplo> :P
<diplo> A lot darker  now though, I preferred the funnier side of it
<oimon> i liked the egypt stuff
<oimon> i only have wii now, so just zelda for me:-\
<gordonjcp> I was tempted to buy the PS3 rebuild of RE4
<diplo> My newest buy for the Ps3 is Toy Story 3
<diplo> Great fun
<diplo> Everyone having a good day today?
<MooDoo> diplo: people off so busy
<s-fox> Pretty good thank you, wondering about what to have for lunch. No idea what to have
<diplo> Bar for a dumb 1-2 hour session of working out NGINX this morning and that it wasn't my config most things have gone ok
<s-fox> How is your day going diplo  ?
<diplo> Not used to setting up web development areas on the actual web, always local so don't worry about firewalls
<diplo> Been hard reminding myself IPTables :)
<diplo> Thinking skipping lunch myself
<diplo> MooDoo: don't you work from home ?
<MooDoo> diplo: i wish, but no
<diplo> ah bigcalm maybe then
<MooDoo> :P)
<diplo> Wat mail client do you guys use atm
<diplo> I keep finding thunderbird a bit .....
<diplo> Used to like it, seem to have fallen out of love now
<diplo> Left my bloomin PSU in Nottingham so need to read mail on here
<diplo> aha, I just remember I set up roundcube on my pc \o/
 * bigcalm looks in
<bubuz> how can i use sed to change the text of one file and save to a new file - not just the lines it has changed - all lines of original file?
<bigcalm> SUp?
<bubuz> be helpful for nagios config files but it just seems to create the new file with only the lines it has changed from the old one and not just substituted in?
<gordonjcp> diplo: it's the bloody stupid tabs thing that annoys me
<directhex> bubuz, cat | sed > newfile
<directhex> ?
<diplo> yeah and that.
<bubuz> directhex, i want to create a config file that is a copy of the original - just with different host name which is mentioned several times in the original
<diplo> bubuz: I just cp the file and then use vi search and replace
<bubuz> sed 's/KCLIVEUBWS1/KCLIVEUBWS2/w KCLIVEUBWS2' KCLIVEUBWS2.cfg for example
<bubuz> there must be an easier way to do though diplo so can script it... ?
<diplo> :g/<searchstring/s//Replace string/g maybe ?
<diplo> Been a while since I used it
<bubuz> sed 's/KCLIVEUBWS1/KCLIVEUBWS2/w KCLIVEUBWS2' KCLIVEUBWS1.cfg even ***
<diplo> I also quite often now just use a IDE sftp onto the nagios box and Ctrl H :)
<bubuz> sed 's/KCLIVEUBWS1/KCLIVEUBWS2/w KCLIVEUBWS2.cfg' KCLIVEUBWS1.cfg even *** apologies
<diplo> Got a lot of hosts bubuz ?
<bubuz> a few but growing
<diplo> I basically did a few sites a day over a few weeks
<diplo> As it was something we didn't have before I didn't rush it/get peeved with it by doing it slowly
<diplo> Learnt more that way as well
<bubuz> i want to automate though so when a new server is deployed - its runs a script that sets up monitoring automatically - just need to change hostname in cnfig file
<diplo> bah, to organised for me! :P
<diplo> I've thought about that, and then thought I cba!
<diplo> Takes me a min to copy and change a config and restart service
<bubuz> sed 's/KCLIVEUBWS1/KCLIVEUBWS2/w KCLIVEUBWS2.cfg' KCLIVEUBWS1.cfg >> gives me a new file for WS2.cfg but its only got the ammended lines in it, not whole config file
<diplo> I only take time to script stuff when it takes me lot's of minutes/hours to do something that after a few hours of scripting will make it that much quicker
<bubuz> yeah i was there diplo, but now I can be arsed
<bubuz> one more thing i dont need to think about - got enough on
<bubuz> lol
<diplo> heh, seems I'm on track to change then
<diplo> :P
<bubuz> :p
<bubuz> but i need to get this working first - doh.
<bubuz> so simple and yet i cant do it
<bubuz> also useful for vhsot files
<bubuz> in fact - jsut damn useful! :)
<oimon> debian administrator's handbook is released :D
<oimon> torrent files are available
<bubuz> nice - will buy a copy of that though
<bubuz> for some reason i torrent/newsbin everything
<bubuz> but i cant get enough actual books when it comes to sys stuff
<oimon> if you want the electronic copy, then you can donate any amount you like
<oimon> (the torrent files are official ones, i didn't mean that you should pirate stuff)
<bubuz> ahhh
<bubuz> ofc
<bubuz> i will buy the book anyways
<bubuz> any ideas to help guys?
<oimon> does in-place substitution work?
<oimon> copy the file and do sed -i ?
<bubuz> nope
<bubuz> :/
<bubuz> ah yes
<bubuz> but it has changed the original
<bubuz> but got it! :)
<bubuz> ledge
<bubuz> cp -p KCLIVEUBWS1.cfg KCLIVEUBWS4.cfg | sed -i 's/KCLIVEUBWS1/KCLIVEUBWS4/w KCLIVEUBWS4.cfg' KCLIVEUBWS4.cfg
<bubuz> ah bollocks no it hasn't worked
<dwatkins> cp doesn't output anything
<oimon> replace | with ;
<oimon> facebook is getting an app store argggh
<shauno> slightly awkward; got my raspberry pi. don't have a normal usb keyboard anymore :(
<oimon> usb bluetooth adapter?
<shauno> looks like I'll just have to be patient a day longer and visit the office tomorrow
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez Unity gets on my tits.
<diplo> heh, moi aussi :)
<diplo> Going to give Cinnamon a go again tomorrow once my laptop psu turns up
<TheOpenSourcerer> I now have a maximised Thunderbird, that has somehow got shunted left a bit so the window control buttons are not visible
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't un maximise
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<oimon> press alt key and drag window
<TheOpenSourcerer> I keep finding windows are moving randomly around between desktops and appear hanging over the edge of other desktops
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: It is maximised.
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, unmaximising with alt click is possible
<oimon> just done it with tb
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - that worked. Thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Switching between workspaces is getting really annoying. It is very slow sometimes and if you have multiple windows of one app open on different workspaces the launcher doesn't know what to do when I click so it does nothing ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then it is hard to find the app window I was looking for,
<TheOpenSourcerer> grumble grumble grumble....
<oimon> opening the dash seems quite slow after sometime of uptime
<oimon> ah, i had a rogue process running
<oimon> k13009
<oimon> woops, that was me trying to kill picasa since unity doesn't know where it is
<head_victim> 3
<oimon> 2
<MooDoo> :)
<ali1234> dwatkins: acceleration is two part, the first part is enabled, the second part is disabled, this is what causes the problem. disabling it does make videos run slowly however that was always the case prior to 11.2. acceleration has never worked properly on any hardware that i know of.
<dwatkins> ali1234: which file are the two parts controlled by, is this a case of the graphics driver using acceleration in general in X versus flash acceleration controlled by the mms.cfg?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> flash has two independent types of acceleration
<ali1234> decoding, and then drawing to the screen
<dwatkins> I only see one tick-box in the settings menu
<ali1234> yeah that's because you can only control one of them
<ali1234> the box in settings disables everything
<ali1234> afaik, the decoding part is disabled by default everywhere on linux
<ali1234> you can enable it through mms.cfg
<ali1234> if you have decoding and drawing both enabled, you don't get reversed colors
<ali1234> but the decoding is so buggy that flash crashes constantly
<dwatkins> how is the performance if both are disabled?
<ali1234> otoh if you disable both decoding and drawing, you also don;t get reversed colours, but then fullscreen mode becomes unworkable due to high cpu requirements
<ali1234> just like it always was in 10 and earlier
<ali1234> the default is to enable one of them and disable the other one
<ali1234> this gives a small increase in performance and the reversed colours
<dwatkins> so with the default settings , the bug is observed?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> only on nvidia cards though, because acceleration is not supported with anything else
<ali1234> the latest ati driver is supposed t support vdpau as well
<dwatkins> I suspect hardware acceleration on linux is technically unsupported by flash
<ali1234> well, we know it opens libvdpau
<ali1234> the best workaround discovered so far is to s/libvdpau/libxdpau/g on the binary
<dwatkins> the suggestion is to 'unistall the VDPAU library'
<dwatkins> *uninstall
<ali1234> doing that will break all the software that uses it correctly like mplayer, mythtv etc
<dwatkins> is there a list of dependencies which I can pass on?
<ali1234> dependencies?
<dwatkins> software which currently uses libvdpau
<ali1234> no
<dwatkins> i.e. to point out that this suggestion will break these apps
<ali1234> it won't break them
<oimon> i just crashed chromium :D
<ali1234> it will just make them go to software mode
<ali1234> and therefore as slow as flash it
<ali1234> well, maybe not that slow
<dwatkins> right, so it will have a negative impact on multiple other packages which use hardware acceleration
<ali1234> yes
<dwatkins> understood
<ali1234> at least mplayer, vlc and mythtv can use it
<ali1234> but i don't know if they go though the library or what
<ali1234> also vaapi can use it
<ali1234> which is a general purpose api that supports different hardware
<ali1234> vaapi is the api they should have started with
<dwatkins> I see
<dwatkins> is libvdpau installed for any NVidia card for which the 'official' driver is installed?
<ali1234> yes
<dwatkins> thanks, I'll pass this on. Unfortunately I don't know if they'll listen to me, but I'll do what I can.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Sleeping with the enemy: my life with Windows Phone - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/407/
<directhex> le blog!
<ali1234> hilarious
<oimon> directhex, just tell me when you buy another phone,
<directhex> it'll be a while
<oimon> well you just murder each one you buy :D
<oimon> by murder, i mean murder the whole company
<oimon> to be fair, nokia were already on their way
<oimon> please don't buy an asus transformer, as i'd quite like to see those survive
<directhex> oimon, as i said elsewhere, "this is the longest i've gone between 'happy' and 'i want to murder some engineers' with a smartphone"
<directhex> oimon, somehow htc survived me owning a hero
<directhex> smartphone wise, i've had in my possession... htc hero, nokia n900, nokia n9, nokia lumia 800, hp pre 3
<directhex> i think that's it
<directhex> in terms of dump phones, what have i had... hm...
<buzz_> my best phone was my nec p3
<buzz_> http://www.retrofones.com/images/SV206764.JPG
<buzz_> :)
<directhex> nec db4000, motorola startac, nokia 8110, nokia 7110, samsung d600, samsung d800, samsung t100, lg viewty
<directhex> don't think i've missed any
<directhex> the d600 and nokia 7110 were the best of those, imho
<oimon> in the unity dash apps lens, why can't i search for sipcalc? i can find it on software centre..why not the install from the internet bit of the dash?
<oimon> happy desire owner for 2yrs
<dwatkins> haha OpenSuSE 12.1 is codenamed 'asparagus'
<directhex> wifey has an htc sensation
<stuphi> Does anybody have a suggestion for an easy to use Exif tag editor? My wife has scanned a load of old photo's and it would be nice to tag them.
<directhex> dwatkins, not as good as fedora beefy miracle
 * dwatkins sniggers
<dwatkins> oh my, I have xdm, as opposed to gdm as the greeter, it's like going back in time 20 years
<gordonjcp> heh
<directhex> dwatkins, liar.
<directhex> Initial release	October 1988
<directhex> 24 hyears!
<dwatkins> wow, now I feel old ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I AM OLD :)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: were you born before 1977?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: yup
<diplo> Moi Aussi :)
<dwatkins> ah ok, not quite as young as me perhaps, then
<MooDoo> dwatkins: i was 40 last month
<dwatkins> my brothers are about that age, they used to beat me at risk (they're twins) then battle each other until the wee hours
<stuphi> 1972, a fine vintage!
<diplo> Hmm, moodoo is old :)
 * DJones sticks up for MooDoo not being old
<MooDoo> :D
<oimon> gmail tab using 250MB, that's just cheeky
<dogmatic69> oimon: try fb
<oimon> yeah closed that tab
<dogmatic69> my gmail is at 120 and fb is 250
<oimon> that uses compiz too
<dogmatic69> how does it use compiz?
<oimon> dunno, but flashing tabs on chromium tax X server and compiz
<diplo> Its the javascript heavy sites that seem to cause the issue, never looked into why but really ought to
<dogmatic69> same for twitter
<oimon> wonder whether to chance firefox again
<dogmatic69> chrome pvt memory -> 3,130,572k :)
<oimon> i just closed about 40 tabs
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> I only start closing them when I cant see the favicon any more
<oimon> same here
<oimon> firefox used to cope better
<oimon> then it got worse
<oimon> and slower
<dogmatic69> ye, I used to use ff. it just got so slow it was virtually unusable
<oimon> almost going back tho
<oimon> i prefer the password management
<oimon> chromium i never seem to remember passwords
<hamitron> choosing a browser seems a major headache atm :/
<dogmatic69> oimon: ff still requires a restart after adding a plugin :/
<diplo> It's the plugins that slowed FF for me
<diplo> Tried it vanilla for a while, so much better
<dogmatic69> even with no plugins it is a dog
<diplo> But I love my Firebug
<diplo> Hmm, fine for me with none really
<dogmatic69> given a few weeks you get used to chrome inspector, I still prefer firebug but chrome one works well
<oimon> adblock i think is the only one i use
<diplo> yeah i use chrome as well, but I prefer the console of Firebug I think
<diplo> I could probably in time find / use Chrome better, just not tried :)
<diplo> FF for developing in 90% of the time, and personal pages are open in Chromium
<diplo> stuphi: Have you looked at exiftool ?
<diplo> Sure I've used it in a script before
<diplo> http://exiftool.berndvogelgesang.de/  <-- some examples
<diplo> http://u88.n24.queensu.ca/exiftool/forum/index.php?topic=1754.0  Example of a bash script
<s-fox> I have to go, goodbye
<Gary> miss you long time
<bigcalm> OMG, it's a Gary
 * Gary nibbles bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Oo, that tickles
<bigcalm> How's life Gary?
<Gary> busy!
<Gary> my boss today has lent me mon-wed to a local school to supervise their new IT Tech in his work based working interview!
<Gary> I feel like a loan piece of equipment!
<miraculous> aww
<miraculous> you are but a piece of fine meat to be shared amongst the schools of essexia
<Gary> I'm going to be late on purpose, as miraculous has this wonderful idea i'll get me a bit of corp punishment!
<bigcalm> HAha
<bigcalm> Are you taking your own cane, just in case they don't have one?
<bigcalm> Ahem, sorry. Wrong channel for this :)
<miraculous> *grin*
<bigcalm> !ohmy > bigcalm
<lubotu3> bigcalm, please see my private message
<hamitron> !kernel
<lubotu3> The core of Ubuntu is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, and if you need to troubleshoot issues, you can try a !Mainline kernel instead, but if you insist, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (see also !Stages)
<hamitron> !Mainline
<lubotu3> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<Azelphur> anyone know how to work around unity top panel showing through full screen applications?
<TheOpenSourcerer> How about $ sudo apt-get purge unity*
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<Azelphur> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seriously considering it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It needs a *lot* of work to be what I would call production ready.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's more like an Alpha.
<Azelphur> gah, yea stuff it I'll just kill unity
 * Azelphur sighs \o/
<Azelphur> it seems to come back like the undead zombie
<brobostigon> what is the command, to count accurances, of a certain string, lets say in a text file?
<KrimZon> at what version does ubuntu start to come with gcc 4.5?
<jacobw2> evening
<KrimZon> hi
<KrimZon> or rather just have 4.5 available
<jacobw2> why do you need 4.5 specifically?
<daubers> 2Evening
<Azelphur> Rumor mill is saying RMS just collapsed while doing a talk at the UPC conference, possible heart attack:(
<TheOpenSourcerer> I saw the twitpics  - Anyway off to watch some telly.
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: and he's such a fit healthy guy, too!
<Azelphur> xD
<directhex> https://twitter.com/#!/directhex/status/200658712770248705 ?
<Azelphur> lol
<jacobw2> poor guy
<KrimZon> jacobw2, c++11 lambdas
<KrimZon> I wanted to make a c#-delegate-like template, where I could automatically add and remove pointers to a type of object and then with a single line call the same method with the same parameters on all contained objects
<KrimZon> not quite a delegate but it was to help me out implementing an observer pattern
<mattt> HERRO
<directhex> O HERRO HANS BRIX!
<diplo-> Anyone about who uses byobu ?
<diplo-> Just trying to use it, by either byobu or byobu -S name
<diplo-> But keeps scrolling the details bar across the session
<diplo->  uÃ®Â¿  12.04  0:*                     1d3h 1.73 2.5GHz 463M37% 2012-05-10 22:1
<diplo-> Characters fubared as well
<diplo-> Anyone got any ideas ?
<popey> diplo-: what font does your terminal use?
<diplo-> Good point :)
<diplo-> On Win7, courier new
<diplo-> Standard putty settings
<directhex> which encoding?
<directhex> utf-8 or iso8859-1?
<diplo> Pretty sure utf8, to secs
<diplo> 8859-1, I lied
<diplo> never changed before though
<diplo> works fine on my natty box with same software, this is on precise server
<diplo> Liked your post on Phones btw directhex, still not sure I'd buy a Windows phone
<directhex> diplo: i'm not a salesman, i was just sharing my experiences
<diplo> Had the 5/6 versions and I was never impressed and I guess I can't get that feeling out that somethings shite
<diplo> heh I know, I'm same as you.. I buy stuff if it works not because it's Open etc
<directhex> diplo: i'm not sure if there's anything in common with WM under the hood. there's nothing in common above it.
<diplo> yeah, waiting for my brother to get one to have a tinker
<diplo> But he went and bought himself an S2
<directhex> diplo: android isn't Open in any meaningful sense either :p
<diplo> I meant in general but yeah
<directhex> the way i work with phones is "how long from first boot to wishing to murder the engineers responsible". that counter is a measure of, overall, how well a phone's good points outweigh its inevitable suck
<diplo> heh, well me and a friend had smartphones for work for years and yet we both until this year have had Nokia 6230's as main phones
<diplo> Because they just worked and nearly always had signal, whereas the smart phones in the same areas didn't
<directhex> in terms of smartphones, i've had.. hang on
<directhex> nope, no in scrollback, must have been on the laptop
<diplo> heh
<directhex> htc hero (android), nokia n900 (maemo), nokia n9 (depends who you ask), nokia lumia 800 (wp7), hp pre 3 (webos)
<directhex> so most smartphone oses
<diplo> Mine were all Windows up till this Android one
<diplo> I had the Tytn/Tytn2/Touch/Touch HD and 2 others that I've forgot names of atm
<Azelphur> I've had a G1 and a G2 :D
<directhex> WM6 was terrible. htc did the best they could to pretend it was usable
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> Azelphur: the g2 is the hero, right?
<Azelphur> no
<directhex> t-mobile used the "g2" name to rebadge several different htc phones, depending on country
<directhex> "g2 touch" is hero ion the uk. "g2" is desire z in the US
<Azelphur> desire z is eu branding not us :P
<directhex> er, yeah, that's my point
<directhex> the htc model codenamed "vision" was sold by t-mobile in the US as "G2", but it's not the same device as codename "hero", sold by t-mobile in the UK as "G2 touch"
<directhex> not by a long shot
<diplo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/byobu/+bug/995412
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 995412 in byobu "status area scrolls forever" [Undecided,New]
<directhex> so we still haven't established which bloody phone you have, by virtue of using confusing regionally-varied model names
<diplo> think that's my issue
<directhex> specific to one carrier
<diplo> this was the fix directhex
<diplo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/byobu/+bug/952724
<diplo> :/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 952724 in byobu (Ubuntu) "status area scrolled out infinitely (tmux-backend with libvte + VTE_CJK_WIDTH=1)" [Low,Fix released]
<diplo> hash out the logo part
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-11
<dogmatic69> I can crash chromium on purpose, its a real edge case but its repeatable
<popey> doing what?
<dogmatic69> have Tab A open, switch to Tab B at the exact moment Tab A triggers an "alert('whatever');". No more chromium
<dogmatic69> the alert and tab change needs to be within milliseconds of each other, but I have done it twice today
<dogmatic69> The cursor gets stuck on some random shape, almost like the 'move something' cursor, then the window greys over, then its gone.
<Seeker`> anyone upgraded to BT Infinity 2 yet?
<dogmatic69> Seeker`: I am waiting for Sky to send the damn 'change provider' code so I can get it
<AlanBell> Seeker`: yes
<dogmatic69> popey: figured out how to repeat it easy. Just crashed it twice more.
 * Seeker` signed up for his upgrade this evening, should be ale to get 55/19 apparently
<AlanBell> well the plusnet equivalent
<AlanBell> it didn't affect my download (still 30ish) but quite a bit better upload
<Seeker`> ah, fair enough
<AlanBell> I probably won't go for it when they start charging extra, I am on a free trial upgrade
<Seeker`> I'm getting 38MB/s down atm though
<Seeker`> *Mbit
<AlanBell> what is your upload?
<Seeker`> 8 or 9
<AlanBell> ok, I get about 15 up now I think
<AlanBell> I am not at home now though
<Seeker`> cool. Will see what mine gets bumped up to then when they do the upgrade
<Seeker`> doesn't cost anything extra on BT, just got to start the contract period again
<AlanBell> ok
<erolci> hi all
<AlanBell> dunno how plus are going to charge for it, I guess they might decide not to in the end
<AlanBell> hi erolci
<Seeker`> how much is plusnet FTTC?
<AlanBell> http://www.plus.net/fibre-broadband I have the extra package
<AlanBell> you need that for a static IP
<AlanBell> http://www.plus.net/fibre-broadband/broadband/ that extra one
<Seeker`> cool
<erolci> I am looking for an application to manage the power settings such as decreasing the cpu performance
<Seeker`> cheaper than BT, BT doesn't give static IPS
<Seeker`> and the BT HomeHub is absolutely dire
<AlanBell> yes, this is basically the BT raw line and an intermediary to help you complain to BT when things go wrong :)
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> that's exactly the same as what BT does
<ali1234> the business is split into two companies to ensure that neither is ever responsible when something goes wrong
<Seeker`> AlanBell: I reckon I've probably got a 50% chance of it just woking
<Seeker`> and a 50% chance of being left without net for a month
<Seeker`> the interaction bewteen BT and openreach is stupid
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, but with plusnet I have not had the impression that they resent you existing that you get from BT
<Azelphur> AlanBell: figured you might be interested, first boot on soreau's i5 rig, all works good :D
<AlanBell> yay :)
<Seeker`> Azelphur: you managed to not fry and arduino yet?
<AlanBell> right, I need to go find food
<soreau> Yes, it works. Now installing softwares
<Azelphur> Seeker`: course not :D
<Seeker`> :D
<soreau> Thanks to all that helped in this endeavor
<Seeker`> Azelphur: I've moved on from arduinos now :D Starting to look at building my own CPU from 74xx parts
<Azelphur> Seeker`: hehe, I'm working on a new less ugly iteration of my linux clock
<Seeker`> linux clock?
<ali1234> did you ever fix your arduino?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah I kinda gave up on it
<Azelphur> Seeker`: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/May/2012-05-11-010040_800x480_scrot.png so far :)
<Azelphur> gonna kill the unity bar at some point obviously
<ali1234> that better be made with qml
<ali1234> or html5
<Azelphur> ali1234: qwebview + html/css + python
<ali1234> or maaaaybe opengl
<ali1234> huh, what an odd combination
<ali1234> just use qml
<Azelphur> suggest-n-run
<Seeker`> Azelphur: thats cool :D
<Seeker`> did you see what I ended up doing with my arduino?
<Azelphur> nope
<Seeker`> http://youtu.be/DEi9Fkp5wjc
<Azelphur> youtube won't play it :(
<Azelphur> it's trying to do it in html5 and it's not working for some reason
<Azelphur> minitube to the rescue
<Azelphur> yay lights
<Azelphur> haha, the leds show the average color of the tv?
<Seeker`> :D
<Seeker`> yeah. Most of the work is done ont he PC, but the arduino acts as a nice interface between the PC and the lights
<Azelphur> pretty cool :)
<Seeker`> thanks
<ali1234> a large number of 1and1 vps just fell off the internet
<Azelphur> fail
<ali1234> looks like they're back
<ali1234> well, some of them are back
<ali1234> yes, 1and1 is kinda fail
<ali1234> but they are cheap
<Azelphur> good news people, apparently RMS is fine, no heart attack just a mild thing and he's been released \o/
<erolci> how to decrease the cpu usage in ubuntu ?
<erolci> I cannot find any solution on the web
<directhex> erolci: run fewer CPU-using things
<erolci> nothing run :)
<erolci> onyl firefox
<directhex> if you open a terminal and run "top"?
<directhex> might be tracker. i had a tracker miner using all my resources when i upgraded my desktop
<erolci> I found a process which is "plugin-containe " uses more than %60 of CPU
<erolci> intresting :/
<directhex> well, kill that one then
<directhex> sounds like a runaway Flash process
<directhex> the plugin container is basically a fence to stop an entire browser from crashing when (not if) Flash crashes
<directhex> it can go haywire occasionally... and occasionally badly written Flash on a web page can genuinely use 100% of your CPU
<directhex> e.g. i remember some banner adverts for Sky TV that could lock up my laptop by overheating it
<ali1234> flash ................
<ali1234> flash crashes one of my VM if i don't log in once a week and do killall -KILL
<emorris> hi, I'm trying to boot off the 12.04 live cd into the rescue mode option, but the keyboard won't respond for the language selection. It works fine in BIOS and the cd boot menu, and I ran the disk check and could hit enter on the dialog at the end ok. Any ideas? Are there any boot options I could try? Thanks
<user_> lll
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How are we this fine morning
<MooDoo> TGIF!
<diplo> heh
<daubers> Morning
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<daubers> New bathroom is being fitted today \o/
<diplo> Not doing it yourself ?
<dwatkins> I fitted my own kitchen, but decided it was easier and quicker to get someone in to do the bathroom.
<miraculous> mmm tiling is a bit of a pain
<daubers> diplo: The bathroom suite is being fitted by my uncle who's a plumber
<daubers> doing the tiling myself
<miraculous> brave!
<TheOpenSourcerer> crack - oh dear - run out of tiles...
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - why is the grout 3mm wide there and 0.5mm wide over there?
<diplo> ah nice work daubers
<diplo> Could do with people like that myself
<diplo> Fitted kitchens in last 3 houses, guessing you have moved into your gaff now then ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> My workstation won't book past grub, so I'm on my laptop today. How painful
<bigcalm> And plugging a monitor into the HDMI port doesn't work other than to mirror the laptop display. Boo
<gord> can you not just turn off mirroring?
<bigcalm> Nope, doing so throws error messages
<bigcalm> Oh, and it only works on one old 4:3 monitor
<bigcalm> My 16:9 monitors aren't seen at all
<bigcalm> I'm going to get a sore neck from looking down at my laptop all day
<DJones> plug a keyboard in and raise the laptop up so you don't need to look down at it?
 * bigcalm slumps in his chair
<DJones> You'll get a bad back
<bigcalm> DJones: this is likely to happen soon :)
<moviebun> Morning all. Does Anyone know if remastersys works with Ubuntu 12.04? Used it successfully in 10.04 so I'm hoping it can work in the new LTS.
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Desktop got as far as showing the xubuntu-desktop splash screen
<bigcalm> Then nothing again
<daubers> diplo: In the process of, lots of work todo before we can move in physically
<diplo> I so wish I had that option daubers
<diplo> Having 2 kids I have to work around them
<diplo> :(
<daubers> diplo: We had little choice! The chap who owned the property previously had an interesting take on DIY
<bigcalm> Looks like the desktop is frozen (number lock light can't be altered). Should have stuck with 11.10 for a few more months :(
<daubers> We've found on bulge in a wall was from where they'd gaffa taped hardboard over a door frame, then papered over it before painting
<diplo> heh, I've had lots of stuff like that daubers
<diplo> It's great isn't it
<daubers> Fantastic really. Plasterer is coming in next week to skim the plasterboard we're putting up in it's place
<diplo> I was sorting the front room, debating taking out the gas fire in the front and held on to the brick fire surround and as I touched it, it fell off the wall.
<daubers> heh :)
<diplo> The guy hadn't fitted it to the wall, just bricked up against it. Worried the hell out of me if the kids had pulled at it, they were new born and 1 1/2 at the time
<diplo> So would have killed them probably :/
<daubers> Nasty
<diplo> Made me go and check the rest of the house after finding that, were quite a few similar things
<daubers> We haven't found anything quite that terrible yet....
<dwatkins> my dad spent years replacing the stuff the previous owner had fitted shoddily
<diplo> Worsed part though...
<daubers> The heating was put in badly (pipes too close to floorboards)
<diplo> When i took the back boiler out i found a few old CD's down there
<daubers> Hah!
<diplo> Beastiality discs :(
<daubers> ewwwwww
<diplo> Ah mine were like that daubers, just stick cloth lagging around them. Worked a treat for mine.
<daubers> diplo: some of the floorboards are raised by the pipes....
<diplo> jeesh mate, sure you bought the right place :D
<daubers> Was an absolute steal!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> Even with all the work it's still an absolute steal
<diplo> Guess you can see why, at least you have the luxury of not having to move in
<diplo> My mums new neighbours have just spent the last year doing there place up, moved in with his mum whilst they did it.
<diplo> 3/4 month job took a year and a half in the end
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Stripped the whole house back
<diplo> More brobostigon
<diplo> Morning*
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<daubers> diplo: We're in the position where we can start painting a few rooms over the weekend \o/
<daubers> I'll sort the heating pipes when I do the carpets in 12months or so
<daubers> all the Cat 6A is in now too \o/
<bigcalm> DJones: found a wireless keyboard and just pinched Hayley's laptop riser. This is a little better I must say
<DJones> Yay
<bigcalm> I just heard my windows server reboot itself
<bigcalm> Now it's making rumbling sounds
<bigcalm> Don't like this
<bigcalm> No idea at all as to why it rebooted
<bigcalm> Maybe updates *shrug*
<bigcalm> Didn't think servers were meant to do that
<DJones> Sounds like you're suffering from a catastrophic hardware failure day#
<diplo> bigcalm: I've had a win7 box do that to me recently
<bigcalm> diplo: this is windows 2008 server
<diplo> Updated and rebooted, I always set to manual update.. but everytime I update it overrides that and sets it to auto
<bigcalm> DJones: I don't like computers today
<diplo> Only played with 2K8 a couple of years ago, had no need since but can't say I experienced that.
 * DJones hopes the day gets better for bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Thanks DJones
<bigcalm> Yay, skype isn't working again
<bigcalm> But that's always been flaky
<DJones> bigcalm: Go back to bed, get up tomorrow
<bigcalm> Tomorrow is Saturday!
<bigcalm> No doubt I'll work then as well any way :)
<bigcalm> killall -9 skype
<bigcalm> And reload
<bigcalm> Seems to be working now
<bigcalm> Eep, mic needs to be turned down a little
<mattt> bigcalm: don't like my heavy breathing?
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> My mic that is. I called echo123 and it sounded as though I was shouting
<mattt> :P
 * bigcalm tickles mattt 
<bigcalm> Is there an image editor/creator installed by default in 12.04?
<bigcalm> I don't see the gimp
<daubers> skype eats my laptop alive at the moment :(
 * daubers needs moar RAM
<gord> bigcalm, by default? no
<gord> i think eog can do a bit of trivial stuff
<bigcalm> Just wanted to check I wasn't going mad :)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<daubers> diplo: This was the fun find in the walls https://twitter.com/#!/daubers/status/200889972457353216/photo/1
<davmor2> morning bigcalm and all
<diplo> nice daubers :_
<diplo> Some god workmanship their :/
<daubers> I thought it was awesome to be fair, no expense spent in fixing it!
<davmor2> bigcalm: what did you do to your workstation?
<oimon> t-mobile just called me 3 days after i asked for PAC code offering me a Â£7.50pm deal
<oimon> i almost flinched but pressed ahead with cancellation
<bigcalm> davmor2: I pressed the on button
<davmor2> bigcalm: there's your problem ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did it power up at all bios screen etc?
<bigcalm> davmor2: it gets as far as the xubuntu splash screen
<bigcalm> Goes blank and then the system freezes
<davmor2> bigcalm: go in via rescue mode and check the syslog see if there is an obvious error showing up
<bigcalm> How do I get grub to give me time to chose? Seems to skip that bit
<DJones> hold down left shift at boot
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> That didn't seem to work
<davmor2> bigcalm: you need to hit it past post but before the system start to boot and you need to keep it pressed
 * bigcalm tries again
<bigcalm> Got it!
<bigcalm> Ok, in recovery mode. What am I looking for?
 * bigcalm checks file systems for errors
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a look at /var/log/syslog and see if there is any resembling ERROR/DANGER will robinson :D  towards the end of the file, you can also check in /var/crash too
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Nothing jumps out at me :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: how about /home/bigcalm/.xsession-errors
<bigcalm> And now it boots
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: you did the filesystem check though right?
<bigcalm> I don't know. Just seemed to wait a while and then reboot
<bigcalm> Bit odd
<bigcalm> I need to run more tests after work tonight/tomorrow
<davmor2> bigcalm: when you login have a look at the .xsession-errors log anyway
<bigcalm> Will do
<davmor2> morning gord
<danhg> hey all, i'm having trouble with google+ hangouts in ubuntu. i'm not sure where to file a bug?
<davmor2> danhg: to google
<danhg> so it's google's fault?
<davmor2> danhg: you do have adobe flash installed right?
<danhg> yeah
<bigcalm> Hehe. My laptop froze on the dots while trying to shut down. I love computers so much :)
<davmor2> danhg: what browser are you using?
<gord> hi hi davmor2
<davmor2> gord: happy to be home?
<DJones> bigcalm: Have you & your computers been caught in the blast of an EM pulse? Broken desktop, windows server shutting down, laptop freezing.......
<MooDoo> hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> DJones: no he'd be more productive if they didn't switch on at all :D
<DJones> davmor2: :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: so dude you got your system up and running now?
<bigcalm> davmor2: so far
<bigcalm> Other than runing a disk check from the recovery menu, nothing else done
<bigcalm> Every time I switch on the machine, there is the crash report symbol in the notification area. Following it though doesn't seem to get rid of it for next boot though
 * bigcalm sends it one more time for fun
<bigcalm> Oh, and one for blueman-applet. Not that I have any bluetooth devices plugged in
<bigcalm> Updates require a reboot. Do I dare?
<bigcalm> Yeah, nothing better to do with my day. Like work...
<dwatkins> depends - what if the machine doesn't come back up again?
<bigcalm> davmor2: send me a private message while I'm disconnected from my irssi proxy. I want to see if I get emailed
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I'll just use the laptop I guess
<bigcalm> *gone*
 * bigcalm returns with his system still working :)
<bigcalm> And I got emailed, thanks davmor2 :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought I'd keep the message polite :)
<bigcalm> It was very you
 * bigcalm ponders lunch
<davmor2> bigcalm: dude you eat lunch you ponder work do get it right
 * bigcalm ponders what to eat for lunch
<bigcalm> Pedant :P
 * davmor2 lowers bigcalm s status to fraggle
<bigcalm> I want to watch Fraggle Rock now
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't make me knock you down to dozer
<bigcalm> I loved the dozers the most
<bigcalm> They constructed things, just like I would when I was a kid
<DJones> bigcalm: I read that as you loved The Doors the most
<bigcalm> Not a huge fan, tis ok I gues
<bigcalm> s
<oimon> where's a good place to buy cables (e.g. C19 -> commando 16a)
<dwatkins> I know a good place in Reading, oimon
<dwatkins> not sure they do mail order, though
<dwatkins> If you know exactly what you want, perhaps try Radio Spares.
<oimon> dwatkins, i found that dell do the cables, might be easier. i thought insight or misco might have stock, or RS, but no
<oimon> TIL what RS stands for :P
<oimon> argh ctrl-w on wrong window
<DJones> Stop talking about him, he's back
<oimon> :P
<dwatkins> oimon: RS are currently in my bad books, because I made the mistake of ordering my Raspberry Pi through Farnell, and RS have been delivering them earlier, so damn them to hades etc.etc. ;)
<DJones> dwatkins: Thats user error though
<dwatkins> DJones: perhaps, although I didn't know at the time I might get it faster via RS. I'm only kidding, anyway, mine is due this month.
<DJones> No matter who you'd order it from, it'd probably have been the latest delivery anyway
<DJones> Sodd's law :)
<oimon> i wish people would make their mind up. either today's knowledge is the pinnacle of human achievement, or ancient knowledge may be valid too: "The earliest known Mayan calendar has been found in an ancient house in Guatemala and it offers no hint that the world's end is imminent,"
<oimon> while i welcome the excitement over cheap ARM coomputing devices, i've had a linksys nslu2 for years, and i don't see that making the papers
<dwatkins> did people actually believe the calendar reaching its limit in a certain number of digits would end the world?
<dwatkins> It's like saying that the world will end on 31st December because we've run out of days, utter poppycock.
<oimon> dwatkins, i've never read an actual story about the mayan calendar, just that people like to repeat it and make tshirts about it
<dwatkins> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar - "Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun, at Long Count 13.0.0.0.0."
<oimon> so it's just an internet meme basically
<dwatkins> indeed, oimon
<oimon> i do worry for the rasp pi, since the actual GUI experience is gonna suck a bit...expectations are a bit high
<dwatkins> it depends hugely on whether schools will buy them or rather consider buying them, or if it's something kids/parents will buy individually
<oimon> i made the mistake of buying the eee 701. think i'll wait till blueberry pi
<dwatkins> if it's for schools to teach ICT, there should hopefully be some well prepared images of Debian/Fedora to teach with that don't offer distractions such as a web browser.
<oimon> maybe LTSP is ripe for that?
<dwatkins> heh, I bought an Eee 701, then I bought an Eee 901, then I saw the Eee 1005HA, it was much more powerful again.
<oimon> the 701 had bad screen , cpu and battery though
<dwatkins> The 901 wasn't that much better
<oimon> i "needed" it for a conference so i got one
<dwatkins> My 901 is now my 'server at home, it takes 38 Watts.
<oimon> dunno why i bought the 2gb ram either, i never would run more than 1 app at a time
<oimon> i have a mac mini from 2006 running debian
<oimon> and the aformentioned slug
<oimon> the mac doesn't use much power,
<oimon> (i inherited it rather than pay money to apple)
<oimon> man, the conversations in this office at lunch time are so boring
<diplo> Anyone recommend a wiki to run locally to jot stuff down on instead of using a pd
<diplo> pad*
<gord> diplo, could you not use something like tomboy + sync?
<oimon> etherpad or etherpad lite
<oimon> or tomboy ,
<diplo> yeah, might do etherpad.. tomboy not so good as I'd like the option of others reading it easily or for me to reference it
<diplo> No one at all in this useless place documents anything!
<diplo> :(
<brobostigon> diplo: i personally, use google docs sharing, to share things, with other people.
<diplo> yeah I do as well a lot, just thought a wiki or something would be better.
<oimon> i love tomboy, especially with tomboy reader on my phone
<diplo> Was debating a knowledge base of sorts
<oimon> twiki is a v good wiki with authentication etc
<diplo> only going to be local network, so not to worried
<oimon> beware there's big difference between etherpad and ethrpad lite
<diplo> yeah ran them both :)
<diplo> just forget them a lot as well
<gord> google docs would be good in terms of leaving it to someone else to do maintenence, nothing worse than wiki's for things falling apart
<diplo> yeah I have worried about that as well :D
<diplo> Will go with GDocs for now, ta for input peeps
<diplo> While I've got some of you on the go, going to be setting up Irssi later, anyone got any good sites / example configs etc
<diplo> that they can recommend
<dwatkins> diplo: http://www.kungfoocode.org/how-to/my-perfect-irssi-setup/ and http://justindow.com/2010/03/26/irssi-screen-and-growl-oh-my/ are quite useful, although I don't use everything they discuss
<diplo> I looked at kungfoocode last night, just thought I'd ask recommendations in case I'm following baloney.
<diplo> ta fanx
<dwatkins> np
<dogmatic69> anyone skilled in french?
<oimon> pas du tout
<dwatkins> qu'est ce que la question, dogmatic69?
<DJones> French fries?
<dogmatic69> cool, anyone want to translate for me? two sentences. Google translate is not working to well today
<diplo> Skilled = strong but proficient maybe, seems guys above are though
<diplo> :)
<oimon> rusty but have a good accent
<dogmatic69> hehe
<oimon> due to hanging around with frenchies for a couple of years
<dogmatic69> http://codepad.org/QBgeq0r7
<diplo> Seems to translate ok to me, I wouldn't say it's 100%
<oimon> e.g. the second sentence says "for quality, it's nickel. after that, i am not sure which guys make customised/certain stickers"
<diplo> But from what I read in french is what it's close to translated
<dwatkins> the word 'nickel' means 'perfect', it's slang
<oimon> ah
<DJones> Maybe somebody has translated it from Chinese to French using google translate to start with
<dogmatic69> oimon: ye, what is 'for quality, it's nickel'
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: awesome.
<oimon> TIL it means "a job done perfectly"
<oimon> i've heard that in films actually
<dogmatic69> that is pretty cool, considering they are discussing my sideline business :D
<oimon> You can even say nickel-chrome ! which means Super
<dwatkins> hmm, not entirely sure about the last sentence, that's all... http://hastebin.com/jefomuxeju.vbs
<dwatkins> That's the best I can do, hope it helps, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> thanks dwatkins
<dwatkins> oops, remove the word 'a' from the last sentence, then it makes more sense.
<oimon> yes, that makes more sense
<dwatkins> de rien
<oimon> that the guy, not which guy (my mistake)
 * dogmatic69 changes the topic to #ubuntu-fr
<dogmatic69> :P
<dwatkins> good luck getting anything translated to English there ;)
<oimon> btw http://stackthatmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/coding.jpg
<oimon> that's how it's done
<dogmatic69> lmao
<dogmatic69> that is very true...
 * daubers tries to escape the office
<oimon> just took dleivery of a new bladecenter
<dogmatic69> oimon: nice, which one?
<oimon> IBM..not so ince really
<oimon> i didn't choose it. it was chosen by committee, hence the one nobody wanted
<gord> there was impressive server kit at uds, couldn't figure out how to fit it in my suit case or how to steal it without getting fired though :(
<diplo> that the arm one gord?
<gord> yeah
<diplo> Get to have a tinker, or just for display ?
<gord> it had about eight billion cores i think, i think it was eight billion, eight or nine
<diplo> 48 nodes * 4 I think
<dwatkins> oimon: I'm curious, did you consider SGI clusters, or are they too expensive?
<dwatkins> <-- used to work for SGI
<mrevel> .nick mrevell
<mrevel> doh
<dwatkins> slash dot dash dot
<directhex> moo
<brobostigon> meep
<MooDoo> mooo
<davmor2> mrevell: how's UDS for you
<bigcalm> Keeping him busy, is my guess
<Azelphur> can anyone explain ATI eyefinity/displayport madness to me
<Azelphur> with regards to putting piles of monitors on one card
<gord> i realised i have the same bag and laptop as popey now, i did not take my opportunity to perform "the switch" :(
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> hah
<popey> i am using my hippy bag today
<davmor2> popey:  then you need this to complete the air of hippiness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmYi5u9BhtI
<directhex> Azelphur: it's their branding for multi-monitor
<Azelphur> directhex: yea
<Azelphur> I'm just finding so much conflicting info on how many monitors I can get on a card lol
<directhex> six.
<directhex> on one card on the market
<directhex> more generally, it depends on the card
<Azelphur> I'm toying between 6990 and 7970
<directhex> then not six.
<Azelphur> how many? XD
<directhex> 3 i think, on cards that don't say "eyefinity 6" on them
<mattt> OHAI
<directhex> maybe 4
<directhex> needs to be displayport everywhere though
<directhex> unless you use "active" displayport to dvi adapters, which cost a hundred quid each
<Azelphur> my friend knows how to get them cheap :)
<Azelphur> although I'd probably have to buy new monitors anyway, my current ones don't wall mount
<directhex> active adapters are not the cheap ones you get in the box
<directhex> compare http://www.scan.co.uk/products/startech-mdp2dvis-mini-displayport-to-dvi-active-adapter to http://www.scan.co.uk/products/dell-bizlink-active-displayport-to-dvi-(dual-link)-adapter-1080p-ready
 * Azelphur finds out what my friend has \o/
<Azelphur> I'm sure he only paid Â£20 or so
<Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/245731-xfx-active-mini-display-port-to-dvi-dongle-ma-ap01-nd1k
<Azelphur> there you go
<directhex> lolxfx
<directhex> got a fire extinguisher?
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> so yea, the answer for all of them seems to be, 6.
<directhex> yep. except there isn't physically that many connectors on a normal card
<Azelphur> yea you have to get hubs
<directhex> and the blurb is "up to 6, depending on manufacturer implementation"
<directhex> good luck
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> will check with the manufacturer for sure before I buy, just toying with ideas atm
<dogmatic69> installed wine, now fonts are screwed up in terminal
<soreau> it might not have anything to do with wine
<soreau> sounds like font corruption, a bug in your graphics driver
<soreau> possibly minimizing/restoring the terminal will fix it temporarily
<bigcalm> Does running "reset" help?
<andrewebdev> where can I find the log to see what app is trying to access my keyring all the time?
<zleap> hi tombrough
<mattt> HAAAI
<jacobw> evening Seeker`
<dogmatic69> any chance of getting little counter things on the unity bar icons?
<dogmatic69> would be nice to have [5] etc on the evolution icon for example
<Azelphur> is it possible to have two people connected to a screen at the same time?
<dogmatic69> something like http://i.imgur.com/iYgRh.jpg
<popey> Azelphur: yes
<popey> screen -x
<Azelphur> cool :)
<popey> dogmatic69: yes, we have that on thunderbird already
<dogmatic69> popey: quickly fork evolution and fix
<popey> hah
<dogmatic69> popey: is the api in unity for this an just need to wait for apps to implement?
<popey> yup
<dogmatic69> cool
<popey> or write one yourself
<dogmatic69> how would I do that?
<dogmatic69> if it cant be done with #!/bin/php it prob wont work :D
<mattt> ew
<popey> actually maybe not
<popey> i dunno, ask gord when he wakes âº
<ali1234> putting the numbers on the icons is really easy
<ali1234> you don't even need to do it from the application
<ali1234> any app can put stuff on any icon
<ali1234> which reminds me
<popey> heh, neat
<ali1234> is the software centre gonna get permission controls now that it's starting to get loads of proprietary software in it?
<ali1234> i mean like android style
<ali1234> "this app needs to access your contacts, allow?"
<ali1234> cos at the moment... they can do anything
<popey> thats an interesting suggestion
<ali1234> that's an interesting response
<popey> it is?
<ali1234> um... yeah, cos it makes me think nobody suggested it before
<popey> they may have
<popey> i dont work on USC
<ali1234> i would have thought people would be screaming for it tbh
<ali1234> it was one of the big questions with maemo
<popey> "people"
<popey> devs ?
<ali1234> yeah you know, app developers
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
<popey> is the main page where features / suggestions are tracked
<ali1234> it's the kind of thing that should already be on the roadmap
<ali1234> if you don't have a plan to get it done by say... 13.04... then... i see big problems in the future
<ali1234> yeah i can't see any mention of it at all on that page
<ali1234> also i think you;re going to have to start marking those "free" to play games more clearly if you don't want to end up like apple
<ali1234> though at least you're not doing in app billing (yet)
<ali1234> i assume that will happen at some point though, otherwise what's the point of building an ecosystem?
<dogmatic69> ali1234: permissions would be good
<ali1234> actually how does that stuff work? i've never bought anything from the music store. do you get a canonical account that all the billing goes through?
<ali1234> er, ubuntu one account
<ali1234> or do you have to sign up seperately to the music store provider and they bill you?
<ali1234> can i make a cheesy game that buys 1000 copies of my record in the background?
<hamitron> better to make a good game, so there is time to buy 10,000
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> if i could make a good game i'd just charge for it
<hamitron> hehe, true
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> actually i'd charge for smurfberries since people seem to love that
<popey> you just use your u1 account for buying stuff from the music store
<popey> not a separate account
<ali1234> ok, and that's saved in your account, that every app you install has access to?
<popey> is it?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i've never tried it
<ali1234> seems like various apps can upload files to ubuntu one without asking for a password
<ali1234> so i assume they can also buy stuff without asking for a password
<popey> i wouldn't assume that
<ali1234> i've seen nothing to indicate otherwise
<ali1234> so therefore i have to assume the worst for my own safety
<ali1234> i bet the smurfberry kid's parents assumed that it couldn't happen too
<popey> well I have bought stuff from the music store
<ali1234> do you have to put your card details in each time? if not, who stores them?
<popey> cant remember
<popey> i cant use it here right now
<ali1234> because you're ... in america?
<popey> no, not signed in
<ali1234> oh
 * popey signs in and tries again
<ali1234> well, the point is, the users are never going to ask for this stuff
<ali1234> but if it isn't provided, there will be problems... and they will be bad
<popey> it has my card details saved
<ali1234> even if you have to sign in, i can jut make my game sign in and say it is going to share some replay with your buddies or something
<popey> you can speculate that you can do that
<ali1234> yes
<Seeker`> jacobw: hi
<dogmatic69> oh man, new gimp... If you open a .jpg you can not ctrl+s
<dogmatic69> you *have* to export it
<dogmatic69> sucked when I first saw this with new files, with existing files it is even more painful
<Azelphur> what is ^M? o.O
<dogmatic69> ctrl+M
<Azelphur> I know that lol
<Azelphur> I mean what character is it
<ali1234> man ascii
<ali1234> it's either /n or /r but i can't remember which
<ali1234> or possibly some combination of the two
<ali1234> you see it in text editors when using dos/unix line endings on the wrong platform
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I figured it out, valve using windows line endings on linux as usual
 * Azelphur sighs
<ali1234> well who wants to write two file parsers?
<ali1234> not me
<Azelphur> I know right
<Azelphur> xD
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-12
<ali1234> dos2unix or zip then unzip the file
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mattt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<gebbione> hi all latest ubuntu has introduced a feature that stops the mouse from moving from one monitor to another unless you force it through, do you know where this can be changed or removed from?
<dwatkins> sounds like synergy's timeout value for switching systems
<dwatkins> you have to push against the edge for 250ms, it's configurable, so I imagine this is too
<gebbione> dwatkins, that limit is not forced if you switch quickly, that is run the cursor from one side to the other very fast
<dogmatic69> yesterday I installed wine on 12.04 and now my terminal fonts are messed up. I have restarted etc and its still wrong
<dogmatic69> anyone know what I can do to fix it?
<mattt> beautiful day today
<mattt> tho i've had enough of outside
 * mattt switches on the rugby
<DJones> Who do you want to win mattt
<dogmatic69> since installing wine, not only are my fonts screwed. but now I can not cd /path<tab> as it always sticks a space on the end
<dogmatic69> so I get 'cd /path '
<mattt> DJones: quins!
<DJones> Ah, kick & clap then, not Wigan v Saints in the challenge cup
<jacobw> afternoonage
<gebbione> anyone knows a free vpn service?
<brobostigon> what formats should blender accept as imported video?
 * MartijnVdS returns home
<brobostigon> wb MartijnVdS o/
 * MartijnVdS was in London
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: you was?
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: *smacks for not telling*
 * SuperEngineer wonders if brobostigon, Nafallo & MartijnVdS are all about to to kiss & hug
<SuperEngineer> [has News of the World camera ready
<brobostigon> lol
<Nafallo> wait sorry what?!
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: oh I thought you'd be at a UDS
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: nah. I've left that company :-P
<Nafallo> /tweet and for all you peeps that can't keep up with the times... yes, I've left Canonical!
<Nafallo> there! stop being behind now :-P
<brobostigon> shouldnt blender accept webm, and oggv, as input types, into its vse ?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I went to see Nerina Pallot in St James' in Piccadilly yesterday and the night before
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: who's she?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2D7GGkrJPM from her most recent album
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFwv2NPwFmI from earlier
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: NOES! just tell me. you're not jpds...
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I'm not jpds
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: who's jpds? :)
<Nafallo> jpds: who are you?
<MartijnVdS> (why btw)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: She's a singer with a (imho) beautiful voice :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Narina Pallot... is it just me or does she bear a remarkable remblance [both looks & voice] to the 'promo' video distrubuted as a capilities example in Win'98? - remarkable resemblance - brilliant either way
<Nafallo> hrm
<Nafallo> I should stop using my credit card until Thursday, I think...
<Nafallo> that would be a good plan ;-)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: There was a promo video with win 98?
<mattt> DJones: wigan saints?  what are you on about?  :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup  (sortoff, it was there as part of the system)- an inbuilt music vid
<MartijnVdS> I don't remember that
<MartijnVdS> I know Win95 had a few
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqL1BLzn3qc ?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: whoops - u right - me wrong - 95 it was and that was the one I refer to.
<SuperEngineer> yea gads - is it that long ago already....
<SuperEngineer> so i guess the 2 are very different people - unless she's changed her name!  ;(
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah she didn't. Nerina is a lot more British :)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Listen to her talk at the end of this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NFhT9ouxxw
<MartijnVdS> (about 5 minutes into the video)
 * SuperEngineer curses new minitube
 * MartijnVdS runs off to the shop.. or I won't have anything to eat tonight ;|
<SuperEngineer> I see what you mean MartijnVdS
<SuperEngineer> [& how can a program that got things so right - move on and get things so wrong!]
 * SuperEngineer curses new minitube again
 * SuperEngineer wonders if MartijnVdS gets Liquorice Allsots & marshmellows for evening meal  ;)
<SuperEngineer> *Allsorts
<mattt> gross
<SuperEngineer> weird - watching the irc channel - listening to Linux Outlaws - & viewing "Madagasgar" on tv
 * SuperEngineer m= weired?
<SuperEngineer> yeh, /me = weird ;)
<SuperEngineer> [but those who aren't are missing the thrill of watching a tickle itself]
<SuperEngineer> [..which is better than watching Gnome3 destroy itself ;) ]
<SuperEngineer> [watching a lion tickle itself btw]
<ruben__> Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼ Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ
<ruben__> ÐºÐ°Ðº Ð·Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ Ð¿Ð°Ð½ÐµÐ»Ñ ÑÐ½ÑÐ¸Ñ Ð°Ð²ÑÐ¾ÑÐºÑÑÐ²Ð°ÐµÐ¼Ð¾Ð¹
<brobostigon> what do people find is a good video editor, i cant get the hang og blender, as i did.
<brobostigon> !ubuntu-ru
<ruben__> have russions here?
<brobostigon> me personally, no.
<ruben__> what country is it?
<jacobw> britain
<ruben__> its not ukraine
<brobostigon> uk - united kingdom. england, scotland, wales.
<jacobw> ukraine is #ubuntu-ua
<ruben__> ok sory
<jacobw> your very welcome here as well :)
<brobostigon> yes :)
<ruben__> how can i make unity lanch do autohide in 12.04
<brobostigon> sorry, i forgot northern ireland, there.
<jacobw> nevermind
<brobostigon> ruben__: i beleieve it is a setting, inside the appearence preferences.
<jacobw> ruben__: http://www.tuxtree.com/2012/05/how-to-auto-hide-unity-in-ubuntu-12-04precise-pangolin.html
<ruben__> ok
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] How to make APIs that people like - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/05/12/how-to-make-apis-that-people-like
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-13
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
 * AlanBell is on a plane
<bigcalm> Good morning :)
<SuperEngineer> o/
 * SuperEngineer is counting the minutes to the start of Spanish Grand Prix coverage - 60 still to go
<SuperEngineer> why is it that when a fly gets in it always end up resting on my monitor!
<SuperEngineer> ooo - just poked it up the backside with cursor arrow - it didn't move but did when poked in face!
 * SuperEngineer blows at fly to let it know rest time is over!
<SuperEngineer> soon time to watch the Grand Prix - recommended reading for y'all to help pass the few remaining minutes http://superengr.wordpress.com/
<s-fox> Hi folks
<penguin42> Hey
<AlanBell> plugging in the raspberry pi now :)
<popey> heh âº
<popey> I haven't unpacked mine yet
<jacobw> afternoon
<Laney> greetings
<jacobw> 1337ings
 * Laney meows
<jacobw> ok, not all puns are good puns
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi all, back home safely?
 * StevenR wishes for a raspberry pi
<jacobw> i'm learning dvorak
<jacobw> it's a steep learning curve
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yes thanks
<penguin42> StevenR: The deliveries are a bit random apparently - a guy at work got his within a week or ordering last week
<StevenR> penguin42: where did he order from?
<penguin42> StevenR: RS
<StevenR> penguin42: farnell aren't taking any more orders at all atm.
<penguin42> yet I know a guy who ordered within the 1st few hours and he's been told next month sometime
<StevenR> really, I'd like one with two network interfaces (tiny low powered firewall anyone?)
<penguin42> yeh, me too
<mattt> OHAI
<MartijnVdS> Howdy
<mattt> how goes it MartijnVdS ?
<shauno> I guess sports for nerds is taking pride in updating your team's wikipedia entry :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: You're adding details about the Williams fire?
<jacobw> it's good a place to be on fire :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: what, the Williams garage?
<jacobw> at an f1 event
<MartijnVdS> With the number of extinguishers and trained people you mean
<jacobw> exactly
<jacobw> what's currently known about optimus on linux?
<MartijnVdS> optimus?
<MartijnVdS> Prime? The transformer?
<jacobw> nvidia
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<MartijnVdS> that's almost as bad as "Belgium", as words go
<jacobw> it's so irrating how difficult it is to find a laptop model with an i7 and intel graphics card
<gord> if its sandybridge, all i7's have intel gpus
<DJones> jacobw: Dell Vostro?
<gord> they are litterally built into the same chip
<DJones> jacobw: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/laptops?~ck=mn#!facets=41105~0~348449&p=1
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: wasn't the new Dell XPS13 made for that?
<MartijnVdS> the one they demo'd at uds
<jacobw> the ultrabook?
<MartijnVdS> yes?
<jacobw> where's this uds demo?
<jacobw> project sputnik
<MartijnVdS> I think so yes
<jacobw> this is cool
<czajkowski> aloha
<Nafallo> hi czajkowski
<DJones> Afternoon czajkowski Back in the uk now ?
<czajkowski> yup
<MartijnVdS> on the correct side of the ocean ;)
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> am knackered
<czajkowski> just had a wee snooze
<czajkowski> could have slept till tomrrrow
<czajkowski> but got up
 * Laney had 10 hours sleep last night, but it wasn't enough
 * jacobw decides he doesn't need a new laptop
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<zleap> evening
<popey> evening all
<daftykins> greetings o/
<mattt> greetz
<zleap> evening all
<daftykins> my my
<daftykins> i've plenty more tasks than i will be able to fit into tomorrow :)
<daftykins> 27 years old and finally gonna apply for my second ever provisional driving license XD
<daftykins> oh the life of an islander
<shauno> call me nosey, but which island?  (I have a load of family on the isle of wight, so that's the only place I've heard people call themselves islanders)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Guernsey
<shauno> ah .. a real island then
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
<shauno> that said, I'm 30 with no license at all.  so I'm not sure it's peculiar to the environment
<daftykins> ah good man
<daftykins> do you live in a city?
<shauno> of sorts.  it's ireland, so it's more of a large town masquerading
<daftykins> oh right, whereabouts? i flew into cork and visited a friend in Limerick back in March
<daftykins> first time in the country
<shauno> galway; center of the west coast
<daftykins> ah - i got driven there too XD
<shauno> I believe it's the fith-largest city on the island; and one of the smallest towns I've ever lived in
<daftykins> neat
<ali1234> turns out that bug i previously erroneously blamed on pulseaudio might actually be caused by pulseaudio after all
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/978604
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 978604 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Banshee/Rhythmbox regularly stop playing audio when left on in the background" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> i can't really say i am shocked by this
<daftykins> nor i
<taunton> hi there
<taunton> looking for Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188CUS 802.11n
<taunton> it shows in terminal but does not conect to internet
<taunton> are you available to give information about wifi ask password again even it is given correct
<taunton> looking for Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188CUS 802.11n
<taunton>  it shows in terminal but does not conect to internet
<taunton>  are you available to give information about wifi ask password again even it is given correct
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-06
<redtape> Happy international no diet day ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_No_Diet_Day
<AlanBell> that is a good day redtape :)
<popey> Pip pip. Morning all
<redtape> Hi AlanBell. & Allo popey ..
<redtape> OT | That film "Once" is on at midday on BBC-1 (Again !!) | Wonder how many ppl will go straight to the auction sites and search "dyson" , today ??
<redtape> OT | .. just reading today's Indo .. Page 35 : "The 10 Best Sun-Creams "   .. go-on rub it in why I need SPF factor>12 for the 9Â Â°C walkies along the promenade.
 * redtape 's now to  slither off to bed.
<redtape> OT | So I take it the Post Office is going from a LLC to a PLC after the Queen's Annual Speech this week .. nice if they could issue some bonds again. mmmmpft 'been 4 years. Anyone @ the grindstone today ?
<directhex> the post office needs to raise their prices. as a consumer i don't like spending money, but on an international basis, their prices are unsustainably low
<redtape> should double by 2016. directhex.
<redtape> popey: Â¡Â¡  yur webcam is especially Aawesome today !! .. http://imgur.com/Z7jGYxT (slight over egged on the brighten tool, but A-Ok)
<redtape> directhex: Meanwhile in Japan .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_postal_mark | .... I wonder if someone could do those symbols on here using their Chat-Client ?
<directhex> ãã ã¶ ?
<redtape> directhex .. how clever .. redtape facepalms.
<redtape> I got the Link from here [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Typographical_symbols ] .. nice book that .. epub would be bettr .
<redtape> OT | Anyone tried the Spring sales for Chrimbo presents  yet .. redtape's spoti.fy radio has just reminded him .. Good day to do it .. http://open.spotify.com/track/17oLsEzzlGFlrBKViCzmGc
<redtape> Wow [selfcheck doubletake] .. Four OffTopix within two hours already . Must be the cautious classical music .. I'll resign to the Offers in the monthly catalogues & leave it there .... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/cpc.co.uk%2008447.88.00.88%20and%20Viking.com%20%20Direct%200844.412.0000.jpg
<Laney> good day
<Laney> bank holiday sourdough bread baking is go
<redtape> Laney: any chance of creme cheese in that ?  Kinda like this :::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy0oYT_fzZQ
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> definitely not
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> Is it a bank holiday down south today too?
<brobostigon> yes.
<directhex> i work bank holidays.
<Laney> those systems don't admin themselves eh
<directhex> i get extra holiday days instead to use as i see fit
<redtape> Finally sold my android on http://swappa.com .. Mine's third one down :: http://bit.ly/SumsungphoneII
<dwatkins> I normally work bank holidays, I have the week off, though.
<redtape> Hi dwatkins.. how's the Scottish weather.. ??
<dwatkins> redtape: the sun is up, that's about all I can tell you right now ;)
 * dwatkins has the curtains closed
<dwatkins> Does anyone have any experience with UK ISPs which aren't O2, Vodafone or BT-owned? I'm looking to switch from BeThere as they just got bought by Sky.
<redtape> yes.. use wimanx .. the best and secure ISP that doesn't bug you .. we use UK area codes here too 4 phones.
<directhex> nah, i'm on BT. they have the most competitive fibre package
<penguin42> dwatkins: hmm I was about to Say Demon, that got bought by Thus, that got bought by C&W ...... but has recently been bought by Vodafone
<penguin42> dwatkins: (Which is what I'm on)
 * redtape feels sorry for dwatkins. Both answers' by others lead him to his ones-he-didn't-want ISP's   ...
<penguin42> dwatkins: But there are still some others - Zen, Andrews & Arnold for example
<directhex> there are small fringe ISPs, like A&A
<directhex> but Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<dwatkins> thanks folks, I'm currently considering Zen and IDNet, both look pretty good.
<alcockell> Eclipse is pretty good as well - on the business tariffs
 * penguin42 wonders what the maths is of getting two bad ones and hoping they don't both fail at the same time
<redtape> dwatkins .. I'd ask this guy, before you make a bags of it .. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stuart-baggs/40/807/924
<dwatkins> make a what, redtape?
<dwatkins> I'm a long way from the Isle of Man.
<mgdm> It's quite sunny in this corner of Scotland
<redtape> make a bags of it .. it means make a heck of a mistake, right ?
<dwatkins> mgdm: I'm in Edinburgh, which corner are you in?
<dwatkins> redtape: no idea, I'm not familiar with that expression, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist :)
<redtape> the jazz corner :D
<redtape> Has anyone use Iomega Jazz disks , this century ?
<mgdm> dwatkins: Same, for the moment, through for the weekend
<dwatkins> nice, mgdm
<mgdm> I'm normally in Glasgow
<penguin42> redtape: I think they all self destructed last century
<mgdm> *click& *click*
<dwatkins> *clunk*
 * redtape remembers a filofax version of the disk -reclaimed- and sold on http://craziestgadgets.com/ in 2007.
<redtape> .. they do the same PCB's to make the filofax covers.
<redtape> **same with PCB's..
<dwatkins> I have a drinks coaster made from a PCB.
<directhex> i liked jazz
<directhex> could never afford a second cartridge though...
<redtape> yeah, troo. I think they were mostly popular with business ppl, who had a propensity for excel etc. .. to store data securely .. around '96-'02
<redtape> I do actually have a drive .. and disk .. but just the 100MB one .. wait .. that is jazz !  .it's at the bottom of my hula hoop box (empty crisps) of AV leads .. that I never go to unless I require an S&M lesson.
<redtape> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<brobostigon> 16c outside, ouch
<redtape> brobostigon: Where's the nearest airport ?
<brobostigon> redtape: probably oxford.
<redtape> oh plop, firefox just bit the dust .. 3rd time today.. grumbles.
<brobostigon> :(
<redtape> brobostigon: I wish morse had this clock [oxford joke] http://craziestgadgets.com/2013/05/03/morse-code-clock-its-dot-dot-dash-oclock/
<redtape>                                                                                    .. I'll just get my coat, then.  :(
<brobostigon> redtape: let me look, minute.
<redtape> brobostigon: Sorry for the Anti-Joke | Why are you twice as hot as here ? http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oxford%2CUK | http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/03207.html?MR=1
<redtape> oh, wait it was 9Â Â°C  this morning, that's why.
<brobostigon> redtape: it was about 8/9c when i got up.
<penguin42> it was more than that when I got up; but I didn't get up until midday
<diddledan_> I got up about 10 minutes ago :-p
<penguin42> and that's what bank holidays are for
<redtape> Aaaaand .. I'm in snuggles on the couchie.
 * penguin42 wonders if the wide eyed creature on the ubuntu 404 page has a name
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 404 in Launchpad itself "PyGettextPO is not able to handle Unicode strings" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404
<penguin42> no one asked you bot!
<redtape> ubuntu403 is better
<Nafallo> you did ask... :-)
<redtape> **ubuntu 403 page is bettr
<lubotu3> Error: Ubuntu bug 403 could not be found
<penguin42> Nafallo: I thought it responded to    bug number
<Nafallo> ubuntu number = ubuntu bug :-)
<penguin42> ah
<diddledan_> so if I randomly said gabber 404 it'll look for a gabber bug of that number?
<Nafallo> debian 702372
<lubotu3> Debian bug 702372 in gstreamer0.10-crystalhd "Please build against gstreamer 1.0" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/702372
<Nafallo> diddledan_: only the bug trackers it knows about
<diddledan_> hmm
<Nafallo> gnome 609870
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 609870 in general "Test for captive portal before putting applications in online mode" [Enhancement,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609870
<redtape> blag 5000
<penguin42> well of course, I'd worry about a non-captive portal....
<redtape> Ha .. I blagged it .. & it still worx !
<penguin42> (What's a captive portal?)
<Nafallo> penguin42: when you login to somewhere like starbucks wifi (which requires web page login) and all these random apps tries to use the internet... yeah, NM knowing about the login portal would be handy :-P
<redtape> .. err a doorway in a correctional facility ? ^_^
<Nafallo> captive portal = such a login page
<penguin42> Nafallo: Ah right - yes that makes sense
<Nafallo> so... you care now? :-D
<penguin42> vaguely
<redtape> I'm sure someone in the community cares, someone, somewhere ..
 * penguin42 doesn't tend to be on that type of connection very often
<Nafallo> <-- cares
<redtape> Woot Nafallo !!
<Nafallo> can't fix it, but I care :-)
<redtape> you can't ?
<penguin42> oh KDE's transfer thing is very pretty; has a bandwidth graph in the notification area
<redtape> Right, know this chimney sweep , who doubles as a ... during the daytime ^_^
<Nafallo> no idea. haven't read that code for a few years.
<penguin42> Nafallo: I suppose the only way to detect a portal like that is to fetch a few web pages of your choice and see if you get what you expect
<diddledan_> yup, that's how apple does it
<diddledan_> they have a defined page in a defined location and check whether they can fetch it intact
<Nafallo> android goes to a google page for the purpose.
<penguin42> Nafallo: your main apt source's would seem a reasonable place
<penguin42> while I guess being careful not to cause a vast load
<ixxvil> what is the ubuntu ny channel?
<ixxvil> forgot
<jpds> Nafallo: There is a way to make NM GET a page to test connectivity.
<Nafallo> jpds: so they fixed the bug? :-)
<jpds> Nafallo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-July/035490.html
<jpds> Nafallo: But no portal.
<^Snake> partition sizes for a dual boot system, what sort of size should be reserved for Ubuntu ?
<^Snake> I've got a 500Gb Sata, 10Gb for Recovery Partition, 50ishGb for Vista, ??? for Ubuntu, the rest for personal files
<directhex> ^Snake, depends on whether you want all of ubuntu in one partition, or to have /home as a separate partition
<directhex> i'd never expect to use more than 10, maybe 20gb for /, but could easily use hundreds for /home
<^Snake> I am real new to Linux, what does / or /home represent ?
<^Snake> my old drive was 150Gb, 10 Recovery, 70 Vista, 70 personal data
<penguin42> ^Snake: A directory which is (typically) the point at which a filesystem is mounted
<directhex> ^Snake, / is c:\, /home is c:\users
<^Snake> the problem I found was first install of Vista only took about 10-15 Gb, but with constant Windows Updates, the 70 Gb shrank to barely 20Gb free after three months
<directhex> or c:\documents and settings, on older versons of windows
<^Snake> ahh
<directhex> so all your user docs, settings, downloads, caches, mail, music, porn, steam games
<^Snake> steam games ?
<directhex> steampowered.com
<^Snake> ok, will look at that after
<directhex> but anyway, the point is, you don't need much space for the OS. it won't really grow much over time. but if you keep your user docs on the same partition as your os, then you need to be more cautious
<^Snake> so I could set say leave 20 for Ubuntu, then dump everything (/home) into another partition
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> on this laptop, i have a 64gb partition for windows 8, and a 176 partition for everything ubuntu related in one big partition
<^Snake> ok, everyone knows what Win(bl)ows is like for data hogging & bloating, I just wanted to have a realistic idea of what to set as a partition
<directhex> well, upgrading from vista would help you there.
<directhex> 7 uses about 10 gig less space than vista
<^Snake> damn
<directhex> of course, part of that is a big disk user with windows is the backups it makes allowing you to uninstall patches, so an older os has more patches so more backups
<^Snake> the thing I have found with Vista, there is always no more that 5 to 8 restores available, no matter how long it's been in use, or what amount of installs etc is happening
<^Snake> you mentioned earlier the user docs, settings, caches, etc, am I right that is like the Users/{Account}/AppData & Program Files/{Various Programs}
<directhex> programs get installed to /
<directhex> user data goes to /home
<directhex> i'm oversimplifying, but i swear i will stab the first person to correct me
<^Snake> lol
 * brobostigon keeps his mouth shut.
<^Snake> ok, the reason for double checking, I never save my data to the windows partition, the user files like Email, docs, music, etc is mapped to another partition
<^Snake> what I'm looking at right now, is 4 partitions, saving all my personal files to the 4th, hopefully that should keep the Ubuntu partition within the 20Gb allocation
<directhex> if you take /home out of the equation, only a rare class of user will need more than about 4 gig for everything else
<penguin42> directhex: I think the installation asks for about 5-6GB min
<MartijnVdS> also, logs grow
<directhex> penguin42, 4.2
<directhex> MartijnVdS, which logs? his apache and mysql logs?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: /var/log/syslog ?
<MartijnVdS> rotation doesn't always work if you don't have the machine on 24/7
<directhex> the installer asks for ~4gb, the actual base install is about 2gb. if your syslog grows to 2g before being rotated away, your pc is broken
<directhex> very
<popey> ebenink
<^Snake> just looking at that on forums, & they mention WUBI, WT????
<directhex> wubi is a discontinued installer which you run from windows, rather than booting the installer directly
<^Snake> ahh
<^Snake> the version I downloaded, an ISO, was burned to disc & boots from the CD, with an option to install, so I don't have to worry about that then
<^Snake> ok, I'm using gparted to create the extra partitions, I gather I have to leave a min of 1MiB at the beginning of the drive prior to first partition, MBR & such, what what about between each partition, should I allocate a space between each partition after that?
<directhex> you don't need to leave any space at the beginning of the drive, or between partitions. i'm not sure where you might have heard that from
<^Snake> from gparted, it's the first box in the Create New Partiotion window
<dwatkins> unless it's to make sure the partition boundaries are in sync with the physical filesystem blocks
<dwatkins> to avoid writing two blocks for each actual block you write etc. - although that's only really an issue on RAID arrays
<^Snake> I've never seen this on Windows based Partition software, so I thought I'd check, lol
<^Snake> not using any Arrays on this system :-)
<dwatkins> no worries, then
<Darael> Question I raised yesterday, and then vanished before popey's response: I've had an issue - for a while, now - that appears to be triggered by the Programmer Dvorak keyboard layout.  I'm pretty sure it's some kind of bug, and it's been present in at least the last four releases.  Does anyone know what the best package to file a bug with is? (Yes, I'm "anyone"-ing.  Sorry)
<penguin42> what's the issue?
<Darael> penguin42: If one sets it as the primary layout, then the following things happen:  Following the next login, anything set in the "options" popup ceases to have any effect, and changing layouts doesn't work.
<popey> and the problem goes away if you set a different keyboard layout?
<penguin42> this is an options on the keyboard settings?
<Darael> Furthermore removing it from the layout list doesn't solve the issue; the account is stuck in that layout indefinitely.  Deleting the entirety of ~/.config fixes it, assuming the system default layout is something else, but I haven't been able to narrow down what it is in .config that's causing the problem.
<Darael> penguin42: Yes.
<Darael> popey: Only if one never logs in with Programmer Dvorak set as the first layout.
<popey> if you can reproduce this issue with the guest account, with step by step instructions, just file it under "ubuntu" and I'll get someone from the desktop team to take a look at it
<Darael> Oddly everything is fine for the remainder of the session in which is is first set as the primary layout, and I *think* even for the first session after a new install in which it's chosen at install time.  It's only after... well, I was going to say a login, but it may well be a log*out*.
<penguin42> Darael: I'd say gnome-control-centre
<penguin42> oops, center
<penguin42> Darael: That looks like the thing that does that options box to me
<penguin42> or the whole keyboard layout I think is probably /usr/lib/control-center-1/panels/libkeyboard.so that seems to be part of it
<Darael> OK, this is an interesting one.  Attempted to reproduce on the guest login, and when I logged out of it, not only did that X session terminate, but so did my own.  And now lightdm won't start.
<Darael> ...Except that on the next attempt, it will.
<Darael> Never mind that, then.
<Darael> Hmm.  Cannot reproduce with the guest account, even with system default layout set to the one in question.
<Darael> Going to try setting up a new account, and attempting to reproduce with that, because I've experienced this on multiple machines.
<popey> remember that when you logout of guest it destroys the session
<Darael> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  Guessing it's either an interaction with one of the extra options one can set (I've tended to map capslock to backspace, for example) or something that occurs on logout.
<Darael> OK, let's see.  Can't reproduce with no extra options enabled, which is interesting.  Time to try running through the possibilities, see what triggers it.
<Darael> ...oh, wait, I *can* reproduce something I alway thought was *part* of the bug.
<Darael> (The indicator, post logout and login, doesn't show any changes in layout, either passively or in its menu, even when one changes it.  At least the layout does change, however)
<Darael> penguin42: (By the way, I don't think it's gnome-control-center, on the grounds that options *previously applied* cease to have their effect when the problem manifests itself.  They work when first set, but then next time around they've stopped even though gnome-control-center shows them as still being set)
<Darael> AHA!  OK, so I was wrong about the thing triggering it.  It's nothing to do with Programmer Dvorak, it's about setting the numpad layout to Hexadecimal.
<penguin42> ooh how do you do that - never knew that was possible
<penguin42> huh yeh - neat
<penguin42> seems to ignore it though
<Darael> penguin42: The letters are shifted on the numpad4 through numpad9.
<Darael> Assuming numlock is on, that should be all that's necessary.  If it's off, my guess would be level-3 shift?
<Darael> It certainly works for me for the session in which it's initially enabled.  It's every session after that that's messed up.
<penguin42> nope, doesn't do it for
<penguin42> what are the 'level-3' thing about?
<Darael> Huh.  Come to think of it, it's a bit screwy for me, these days.
<Darael> I can only get ABCD, not EF, and they're on 8264 for some reason.
<Darael> penguin42: Third level shift is what AltGr is configured to do on Windows, for example.  It's another shift state; allows one to get four characters on a key.  Used a fair amount in various European keyboard layouts to get things like umlauts.
<MartijnVdS> wÃ¶Ã¶t
<MartijnVdS> AltGr+5 = â¬, for example
<MartijnVdS> AltGr+Shift+4 ($) = Â£
<penguin42> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> I also have several "dead" modifiers (that put the accent in a buffer somewhere, then put it on the next letter I type)
<MartijnVdS> AltGr+", e = Ã«
<MartijnVdS> AltGr+6, e = Ãª
<Darael> The third level is where the various "putting currency symbols on keys" options place the currency symbols, as well.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: like I said :)
<Darael> (although AltGr+Shift+4 is the fourth level)
<MartijnVdS> Darael: it's how I do Â£ and â¬
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Indeed.  Not all layouts actually require those settings, :-P
 * MartijnVdS uses US-International-NoDeadkeys
<Darael> (some of them have currency symbols in level3 or level4 by default)
<Darael> MartijnVdS: A NoDeadkeys variant... with deadkey modifiers?
<MartijnVdS> (most keyboards in the Netherlands have a US layout with a â¬ sign printed on the 5, instead of the traditional Dutch layout)
<MartijnVdS> Darael: yes, AltGr + ', ", 6(^), `, etc.
<MartijnVdS> though altgr+letter also does stuff: p = Ã¶, z = Ã¦, etc.
<penguin42> we seem to have a lot of stuff mapped like that even in the UK mapping
<penguin42> we seem to have alt-gr+z/x as Â«Â»
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: those are on [] for me
<penguin42> Ã¦ is alt-gr A
<penguin42> oh well, I never use any of them
<MartijnVdS> and AltGr+Shift [] = ââ
<MartijnVdS> âWoohooâ
<Darael> Basically, the third-level shift options are worth knowing about.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: time for a blog/g+ post
<Darael> As are the fourth-level ones (shift+AltGr) (or whatever one has set as the third-level shift key).
<penguin42> ââââ are kind of useful on yui
<Darael> There's also a setting for fifth-level shift, but I have no idea whether any of the layouts distributed with Ubuntu have anything on shift levels five through eight.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: Ctrl+AltGr+Shift?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: or Meta?
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Look in the layout settings, under Options.  There are two categories of settings about shift levels, one being third-level shift keys and one being fifth-level.  I don't know what relation these may have to Meta, although my understanding is that we generally treat alt as Meta.
<Darael> And it's certainly not Ctl; that's a different bucky-bit again.  AIUI.
<Darael> Bring back Hyper, Front, and Top, that's what I say.  :-P
<penguin42> bring back left keys
<Darael> popey: I *tried* to file a bug.  But I didn't put it on the clipboard before I clicked the button, and I got the "something went wrong in Launchpad" page.  It will take a little while to type it up again...
<popey> press back?
<Darael> Tried it.  Just get the page asking for a bug title, not the full description-box.  And the input box I have is empty.
<Darael> ...But filling that in again with the same title as before does get me my full writeup.  Thankfully.
<popey> sounds like a crap browser
<popey> glad you got the content back
<Darael> It's Firefox.
<popey> I was right ã
<Darael> OK, now I have a different problem.  Under "in what package did you find this bug?", if I choose the "I don't know" radio button, Launchpad consistently errors.  So what package should I file it under, given that it rejects "ubuntu"?
<Darael> ubuntu-desktop?
<Darael> Well, it doesn't *reject* ubuntu-desktop.  It just errors out, exactly as if I'd checked the "I don't know" radio button.
<popey> put lightdm for now
<popey> we can move it
 * popey reboots
<Darael> Launchpad: Error ID OOPS-ed15658c147a6a583ffca6ad180694fa
<Darael> Again.
<penguin42> give it a few minutes or ask in #launchpad
<Darael> Tried starting over with "ubuntu-bug lightdm", and it worked.  Bug 1177023.
<lubotu3> bug 1177023 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Hexadecimal numeric keypad layout causes several keyboard-layout issues" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177023
<penguin42> Darael: Good use of blaming Popey
<penguin42> there are somethings that are very neat in python; the list and dictionary comprehension in particular; inodemap={ os.stat(imagedir+"/"+f).st_ino : f  for f in os.listdir(imagedir) }
<Darael> penguin42: I do my best.
<zleap> hi DanS
<DanS> Hi zleap
<zleap> AlanBell, are we still able to get 12.04 cd's for software freedom day
<DanS> AlanBell: I am part of a Linux Users Group and we are organising an event for software freedom day would it be possible to have some CDs of Ubuntu 12.04 sent to me at all?
<MartijnVdS> argh
<daftykins> argh?
<daftykins> also hi :D
<MartijnVdS> After watching a video with audio at 48000KHz, "normal" things (flash, rhythmbox) sound like the smurfs
<MartijnVdS> (because they expect it to be at 44100)
<MartijnVdS> pulse was supposed to fix this!
<daftykins> pulse was meant to do a lot
<daftykins> :D
<^Snake> I haven't installed any OS yet, but reading some forums on bootloaders, they are talking about LILO, GRUB, BURG, & EasyBCD, is there any preference to which is best to use?
<daftykins> GRUB2'll be standard on pretty much any modern distribution
<daftykins> depends what you're looking to install
<^Snake> Windows Vista is the first to be installed, then Ubuntu 12.04
<^Snake> seperate partitions for each OS
<daftykins> ^Snake: yeah just do it as normal then. i'd recommend fully patching Vista before installing ubuntu though
<daftykins> i.e. be sure you've got SP2 on at least
<^Snake> yeah, sp 1 is a shit to install, no longer get the pack from windows update, gotta use the download from the website, then other stuff to do to "fix" it
<daftykins> if i were you, grab an already-integrated with SP2 .ISO image
<daftykins> you can find them online pretty easily, from the digital river (official microsoft) links
<daftykins> saves you a LOT of time and is faster in general
<^Snake> I've previously downloaded SP1 & SP2 packs, got them on a backup drive
<MartijnVdS> you don't need both
<MartijnVdS> SP2 contains 1, if I'm correct?
<AlanBell> zleap: DanS: not sure we can get more 12.04 cds easily
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: buy a pack of CD-Rs and sit down for a few days ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: negative
<daftykins> for Windows Vista, you have to put SP2 on after SP1
<DanS> AlanBell: what about other versions
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: eww
<daftykins> it's the only one that broke from the usual SP approach
<AlanBell> however there was a conference pack for the ucubed event that got misdelivered, I wonder if I can get that sent somewhere useful
<zleap> AlanBell, so what do you recommend,
<daftykins> ^Snake: sure but installing them like that will give a slower OS than an 'SP2 disc'
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: ("negatory")
<zleap> AlanBell, could be useful were were lookingat getting one anyway for sfd
<AlanBell> DanS: they didn't press 13.04 and probably won't do another until 14.04, if at all
<DanS> Ok what about 12.10 possibly?
<zleap> i thought they were pressing more 12.04 as that is the lts release
<AlanBell> I have a handful of 12.10 left
<AlanBell> maybe a dozen or so
<zleap> ok
<DanS> They would be useful
<zleap> i have a few here
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: there's a difference on such nega-terminology? :)
<zleap> AlanBell, how much would it cost to have a conference pack sent to me please? if I can get the money from the exeter lug i would be interested for sfd
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: negatory ;)
<^Snake> the ubuntu website is still showing as able to get 12.04 on cd
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's just.. Americans :)
<AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17 is the available CDs to buy
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> conference pack is free if it gets approved, which they generally are if you can point to a proper looking event
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: so americans say 'negative' ? i don't quite follow
<DanS> AlanBell: we have a page on what needs to be done and what stands we are going to try and hold for the event
<zleap> AlanBell, ok so we need to get the info on sfd done ASAP,  we have a exeter  lug meet on Friday I can push for this,  its still in a planning stage  atm
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: some Americans, mostly of the "miltary" and "trucker" kind, or people who say it "ironically", tend to say "negatory" instead of "negative"
<DanS> zleap: I put a basic description down at top of page
<zleap> ok
<DanS> Just when and where
<DanS> AlanBell: what is required in terms of proper event
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah ok
<zleap> AlanBell, i will let you know what we have organised for sfd,  :) amd we can work with you perhaps to make sure the event ticks the right boxes
<AlanBell> ok, I will find out what happened to the conference pack that is floating about
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<bigcalm> I can never get the right syntax. How does one add an existing user to an existing group?
<daftykins> useradd -m -G [group] username ?
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ sudo useradd -m -G dialout iain
<bigcalm> useradd: user 'iain' already exists
<mgdm> instead of -m use -a
<mgdm> and it's usermod, not useradd
<daftykins> oh he said existing user
<daftykins> my bad
<daftykins> learn2read daftykins !
<bigcalm> Ta. Lets see if this worked
<bigcalm> That worked, ta
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<ali1234> sudo gpasswd -a user group
<daftykins> nn all \o
<bigcalm> Finished Portal for the 50th time, what do I do now?
<^Snake> can anyone recommend a good drive tester, I need something that can find out which of my drives is being weird (odd noises, but can't localise to which drive)
<jacobw> I couldn't see the point of Chef before I used Puppet
<bigcalm> Oh balls: iain is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
<bigcalm> Messed up my own user some how
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> While trying to add my user to the dialout group, I managed to set it as my only group
<bigcalm> Not sure how to recover from this. Live CD maybe?
<shauno> have you rebooted since?  any sessions open anywhere that were started before the change?
<shauno> any shell that was started before the changes should still be running with the groups it was exec'd with
<bigcalm> I've logged out/in so that my user was part of the dialout group
<shauno> you're probably stuck with 'rescue mode' then .. single-user boot, livecd, etc
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> And visudo to add myself back in
 * bigcalm returns victorious
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-07
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> how was your trip popey ?
<popey> Great! Just about recovered from jet lag this morning
<dwatkins> ahoy
<MooDoo> ello
 * dwatkins finally published something after a few years and a little while messing around with the Arduino
<dwatkins> in case anyone's curious about pulse-width modulation: PIC Programming - Introduction
<dwatkins> oops
<dwatkins> that https://github.com/glymph/Arduino/tree/Colour_changing_LEDs
<Laney> MEOW
<MooDoo> moo
<jpds> Laney: No.
<Laney> Oh. :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Long Weekend Confusion Day! :-D
<MooDoo> now you made that one up ;)
<SuperMatt> I would happily belive it's real
<JamesTait> MooDoo, you're right, I did.  But as SuperMatt says, it should be a thing.
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> and there will be another one in a couple of weeks
<popey> After watching Django Unchained both on the flight out to SFO and again on the way back I think I have a man crush on Christoph Waltz! â»
<JamesTait> It could just as easily be Sunburn Suffering Day, or Gardening Aches Day. ;)
<popey> For me it's "get over jetlag day"
<popey> went walking yesterday and slept last night from 9pm till 7am this morning
<popey> zonked out completely
<Laney> i watched cloud atlas on the flight
<Laney> quite liked it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JamesTait> popey, how was your week? Exciting, from what I've heard.
<JamesTait> And tiring, I expect.
<popey> it was
 * popey upgrades a vm to saucy
<SuperMatt> I've already upgraded my laptop
<Myrtti> popey: http://gifrific.com/colonel-hans-landa-dancing-in-his-chair/
<popey> :D
<SuperMatt> You k now, I quite like that feeling I get when I had one error message, and now I get a new one
<SuperMatt> hmm... do you know what unity could do with? an in built terminal emulator
<SuperMatt> like guake
<Nafallo> not sure. feels like Ubuntu is trying to get us NOT to use the terminal... wouldn't building one in seem like a step backward?
<brobostigon> gnome-terminal should still be there? shouldnt it.
<Myrtti> I know this is very annoying and so on, but just to keep the few remaining friendships I have in the Ubuntu community remaining, I'll just resort to the same old line of "I was going to say something, but my brain told me hitting enter was a bad idea, so nevermind" - oh but Nafallo said it better too.
<Myrtti> so w/e ;-)
<SuperMatt> I just think it would be a nice extension to alt+f2, because you might actually want to quickly see the output of a command
<mgdm> I'm sure i once had a plugin or app that did that
<mgdm> you hit something+~ and the terminal appeared
<SuperMatt> yeah, that's guake (I think)
<Nafallo> as a power user, this should be an easy to fix problem ;-)
<mgdm> SuperMatt: Oh, I thoughtyou meant quake, heh
<SuperMatt> :P
<Myrtti> guake, tilda, there's plenty of them
<SuperMatt> yeah yeah
<SuperMatt> I just wonder if it'd be cool to be in unity, with unity styling
<popey> it would, yes
 * SuperMatt thinks the networking indicator needs a redesign - specifically to show IP address
<SuperMatt> though I assume that'd probably come with unity next
<popey> it does show IP
<popey> click "connection information"
<SuperMatt> yeah yeah, but I kind figure it should just be there, at the top
<Laney> :( :( :( :( spotify doesn't work for me on saucy :( :( :( :(
<popey> why?
<Laney> "GUI deadlock"
<popey> in general most people rarely need to know their own IP address
<SuperMatt> very true
<SuperMatt> but when people *do* need it, a single click would be useful
<popey> pfft
<popey> its two clicks
<SuperMatt> well yeah
<popey> in fact it's one
<SuperMatt> you put it like that :P
<popey> click and hold the indicator, drag down to connection information, let go = one click
 * SuperMatt nods
<popey> Laney: the guys in #spotify are quite helpful
<popey> and the linux version is a pet home project of one of them, not a "supported" client sadly
<popey> (unless things have changed since I last asked)
<SuperMatt> if only more employees of service providers like that decided to do "pet home projects"
<Laney> well, it at least means that i'm definitely paying them cash prize moneys
<Laney> i'll check with them soon, ta for the info
<Laney> just heard a load of post come through the door
<Laney> 5 leaflets, 1 spam newspaper and a newsletter from the council
<Myrtti> so, has the common opinion on Google Pixel vs. Dell XPS13 changed recently? I think that my old Latitude D630 is on its last legs (the replacement keyboard I installed on it less than a year ago is breaking and I suspect it's because it probably wasn't genuine replacement part) and I'm afraid I'm forced to look at getting a new laptop. Is there any other fairly Linux compatible good bang for buck laptops around?
<Laney> yippee
<Myrtti> I fixed the issue with the keyboard (probably temporarily) last night with some tissue paper and super glue
<popey> Myrtti: macbook air? â»
<Myrtti> popey: is it cheaper than either the Dell or Pixel?
<popey> i dont know how much either of those devices cost
<Myrtti> around 1060
<Myrtti> give or take few tenners
<popey> 1249
<Myrtti> zoink
<popey> http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MD212B/A?
<Myrtti> yeah, no.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> I can't even justify the Pixel/XPS13 price for myself
<MooDoo> wow how expensive
<Myrtti> *sigh* I think all the keys are pretty much about to jump for freedom
<emi> help with login
<emi> hey there i a have a problem with my login
<emi> can anyone help me?
<emi> i am not an expert
<SuperMatt> what's the issue?
<emi> hi matt!
<emi> i left my laptop with a friend, when i came home to login it didn't work
<SuperMatt> ok, tell us exactly what you see
<emi> it didn't say that the password is wrong but showed first a black window and then came back to place where i can login
<emi> and my friend he said that it suddenly didn't work
<emi> at the same time my laptop is saying me that i don't have enough space
<SuperMatt> do you use byobu, by any chance?
<SuperMatt> ah
<emi> hmmm no idea, sorry
<SuperMatt> that would explain it
<SuperMatt> it can't write to logs, etc, so it is failing to log in
<emi> but in order to delete things i would need the access to my account??
<SuperMatt> you're going to have to press ctrl+alt+f1, to go to a terminal
<SuperMatt> then you can log in
<emi> i tried
<emi> it doesn't worked
<SuperMatt> in which can, reboot, and when the boot options come up, select advanced options, and then pick recovery mode
<emi> ok i was on the recovery mode
<emi> and then?
<SuperMatt> in there, it might ask you if you want to clean up dpkg?
<SuperMatt> dpkg/apt
<emi> it says if i wanna clean my data system
<emi> do you mean that?
<SuperMatt> yup
<emi> i already tried this one
<emi> nothing happened
<SuperMatt> I don't know what it does, so be careful
<SuperMatt> ok, can you drop to root shell prompt for me?
<emi> how?
<SuperMatt> in the same recovery mode thing
<emi> by the way it's funny to chat with uk from germany :)
<emi> but if i go out now, i would need to leave this chat
<SuperMatt> how are you in this chat then?
<SuperMatt> if you can't log in
<emi> from my laptop from the guest account
<SuperMatt> ok
<emi> the guest account is working
<SuperMatt> ok, is there something which you know you can delete?
<SuperMatt> specifically in your account
<emi> the problem is that i never used the guest account but i cut out the programmes and insert on a disk driver
<emi> ah i forgot the english word for that
<emi> then i tried again and it didn't work
<SuperMatt> so do you have disk space now or not?
<emi> i should have more yes
<emi> because there are not there anymore
<SuperMatt> ok
<SuperMatt> can I ask if you've tried #ubuntu-de?
<emi> how and where i can try?
<emi> you mean on the chat?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> it might be easier for you talking in your native tongue
<emi> yes i will try that thank you anyway
<emi> i didn't know about this chat, i thought it is only in the uk
<MooDoo> emi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<emi> thank you so much!!!
<emi> i am in contact now with one from germany
<emi> best wishes, emi
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> I have to wonder how do they even end up on the channel
<popey> https://twitter.com/ktalbot21/status/331712272760176641/photo/1  made me chuckle
<dwatkins> well quite
<ali1234> 1
<ali1234> yes, 1
<ali1234> 1
<ali1234> argh
<ali1234> some please put compiz out of it's misery. please?
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get install gnome-shell, done :)
<shrik> can anyone come to the meetups? do I have to sign up someplace?
<SuperMatt> what meetup?
<shrik> oh sorry, i meant things like the install party
<SuperMatt> sure, you can just turn up
<SuperMatt> there's normally something on the loco events page though
<shrik> can't believe i realised locos exist only about a month back :|
<SuperMatt> doesn't look like there's an offical uk install event at the moment
<SuperMatt> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
<shrik> not at the moment, but there was one a couple of weeks back: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2329-1304-release-party/
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> I was there
<SuperMatt> was fun
<shrik> is it just people sitting around in a pub and talking ubuntu and life?
<shrik> or do people bring along laptops and do live installs or demos or some such?
<popey> depends on the event
<SuperMatt> as popey said
<SuperMatt> it's mostly about the drinking
<shrik> good stuff..
<dwatkins> "Life? Don't talk to me about life..." - Marvin
<shrik> are terrified newbs subjected to hazing..?
<SuperMatt> nope
<dwatkins> no, only the over-confident ones ;)
<shrik> no danger of that happening :D
<MooDoo> dwatkins: got the tar and feathers ;)
<mungbean> is it possible to get adblock to block the dailymail sidebar of shame?
<mungbean> but yet read the story in question?
<popey> i never look at the sidebar
<mungbean> its all bewbs
<mungbean> its hard not to
<popey> i manage it â»
<mgdm> that's known in here as the 'cracknav'
<mgdm> (I don't work for the DM, thankfully)
<Laney> https://addons.mozilla.org/En-us/firefox/addon/kitten-block/
<SuperMatt> oooh, nemo is no longer a dependancy for cinnamon
<gordonf> help, dns is broken since i upgraded to 10.04 :(
<gordonf> it now only works if i ifdown ; ifup, maybe because i am using /network/interfaces and not the NetworkManager
<popey> hi gordonf
<gordonf> hi popey
<popey> just so you know, 10.04 goes out of support in 2 days â»
<SuperMatt> oh really?
<gordonf> oh kay
<popey> however, your dns should work
<popey> what do you have in /etc/resolv.conf ?
<popey> it should list your nameservers
<gordonf> i installed resolvconf and it is the google nameservers
<popey> what did it have before you did your ifdown/ifup?
<gordonf> but after a reboot, no go with any dns, until i ifdown/ifup
<gordonf> not sure
<gordonf> i can reboot to find out
<popey> well, I wonder if you need to populate it
<popey> which you could via your custom /etc/network/interfaces I believe
<popey> if you dont want to use network-manager
<gordonf> the interfaces file has dns-nameservers
<popey> ooh
<popey> interesting
<gordonf> i provided that amongst other things, after all day trying to persist the machines dns
<gordonf> i also provided nameservers in the resolf.conf.d/base
<popey> I dont know the answer then, sorry.
<gordonf> its broke isnt it?
<ali1234> what is problem?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Presumably you mean 10.04 desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> not server?
<gordonf> dns on 10.04 is broke
<ali1234> what else is new?
<popey> gordonf: is it a desktop or server?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I did
<gordonf> popey, a bit of both
<popey> hah
<gordonf> !
<directhex> i've still got a couple of people on 10.04 :/
 * gordonf looks sheepishly sideways
<gordonf> although there is no network manager to speak of visible on the desktop
<gordonf> i could script a cronjob @reboot to ifdown/ifup that may fix it
<gordonf> i have just installed mogodb, its ace
<gordonf> and fetchmail, and would like an mda to parse my emails and insert certain data into a mongo db
<gordonf> fetchmail failings alerted me to the dns bork, so, spent all day trying to fix that
<jacobw> man resolvconf
<gordonf> k
<dwatkins> resolv.conf, that is ;)
<gordonf> yeah, before i installed resolvconf dns was broken
<shauno> oh not clever.  our new install image has the language set to Irish (Ireland) not English (Ireland). (ga_IE vs en_IE).  I see their logic, but .. oops
<SuperMatt> I have a question: debian was in freeze for quite a while. Did that affect the packages that ubuntu pulled in from upstream?
<SuperMatt> or do the packages come from unstable?
<jacobw> SuperMatt: No, those packages come from unstable
<jacobw> SuperMatt: But the progress of packages through unstable slows during the freeze because packages don't progress to testing
<SuperMatt> ta
<alcockell> Nowt to do with Ubuntu, i know - but I take it ppl here have seen what's airing at 9...
<popey> alcockell: nope?
<alcockell> Prize bellends showing themselves up after a Prokofiev intro?
<alcockell> The country's "business elite" showing why we're belting towards a lee shore?
<alcockell> Apprentice is back on the air.
<diddledan> oh, not amazing wedding cakes on the food network then? :-p
<diddledan> australia are searching for their next top model on sky livingit
<diddledan> the children's channels are all simulcasting a very long film called "close", too, accoding to radiotimes.com
<ali1234> close but no cigar?
<bigcalm> Evening peeps
<popey> pip pip
<directhex> double fine bundle!
<popey> "meh"
<MartijnVdS> popey: meh to you too
<directhex> meh? clearly you hate games
<bigcalm> Is it worth $35 for Broken Age? I have Psychonauts and I'm not sure about the others
<diddledan> lol @ lxc-gentoo script: (PS: Unix hackers with a conscience do not work for morally corrupt corporations or governments. Use your powers for good!)
<diddledan> who determines what constitutes "morally corrupt"?
<shauno> you should look into json's licence sometime then.  that'd give you a giggle.  and a sore forehead
<bigcalm> I recall that caused some trouble
<diddledan> lol @ json
<diddledan> I want to use it for my meelion dollar-making death-ray
<shauno> the catch is, who on earth defines evil?  I can control my light bulbs with json over http.  is turning the lights on full at 3am evil?  licence-violatingly evil?
<diddledan> .. json, obviously so that it is controllable by the public for instasmite
<bigcalm> popey: ordering 2 2tb drives. Not sure what I'll do with the space though
<brobostigon> p**n, woops.
<bigcalm> pain?
<brobostigon> nope. but maybe.
<bigcalm> phun!
<brobostigon> lol.
<brobostigon> sorry, am being childish, i still giggle at liboobs.
<directhex> shauno, douglas crockford defines evil.
<directhex> shauno, *paypal employee* douglas crockford defines evil.
<kafe> hej:-)
<eva> hi
<eva> can any one help me install ubuntu on a 64gb usb
<Guest81196> and us all 64gb instead of just 4gb
<Guest81196> i mean all of 64gb
<Guest81196> please
<Guest81196> ?
<Guest81196> does anyone know how?
<Guest81196> is anyone here
<brobostigon> depends on what you want to achieve.
<Guest81196> i just want to do a live but with 64gb persistant
<Guest81196> with ubuntu
<brobostigon> unetboobin.
<brobostigon> unetbootin.
<Guest81196> what that
<bigcalm> !unetbootin
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<brobostigon> :)
<Guest81196> i did that and it didn't help
<Guest81196> i only limmited me to 4gb
<Guest81196> i want to use 60gbs
<Guest81196> is there any way?
<brobostigon> install from a live cd, to the usb drive ?
<Guest81196> i just want to have a usb that i can plug into any computer and boot ubuntu and have a 64gb hdd that i can save stuff on
<Guest81196> will that work
<Guest81196> i am not that good with linux i think i need someone to walk me threw it please
<directhex> ok. how did you set up the usb stick in the first place?
<Guest81196> i formated it already cause it didn't work
<Guest81196> i been trying to do this for 3 days now it's very frusterating
<Guest81196>  use a 64GB drive, I formatted it with two partitions, one is 32GB ext3, and the rest is NTFS. I actually used Ubuntu to 'create a USB startup disk' - so I have a 32GB Ubuntu system partition that I can boot on any computer that has an option in BIOS for booting from USB, so I never need to use Windows on other people's computers.
<Guest81196> but it didn't work
<Guest81196> i had to do 32gb cuase it was fat32
<Guest81196> but i want to do all 64gb
<brobostigon> a usb startup disk, as standard isnt persistant.
<Guest81196> i don't know the correct terms
<Guest81196> all i want is just a portible usb that i can plug into any computer and us ubuntu on and have access and i can have saved and us all 64gbs
<brobostigon> directhex: similerly to debian, doesnt ubuntu have a from install, ability app, to create another install. ?
<Guest81196> i have no idea?
<Guest81196> i am a noob
<directhex> well, there's debootstrap...
<diddledan> ubiquity is installable in apt
<brobostigon> here in debian, there is an app, to create an install from itself.?
<Guest81196> ???
<brobostigon> !info ubiquity unstable
<lubotu3> Package ubiquity does not exist in unstable
<brobostigon> !info ubiquity
<lubotu3> ubiquity (source: ubiquity): Ubuntu live CD installer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.12.16 (quantal), package size 4728 kB, installed size 15193 kB
<Guest81196> !info
<Guest81196> ?
<brobostigon> !liveusb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<Guest81196> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick i did that and all i got was 4gb?
<Guest81196> how do i do that to get 64GB
<diddledan> see the second link
<brobostigon> cant you just increase in unetbootin, the persistance to cover the whole thing?.
<Guest81196> so just use UNetbootin
<Guest81196> ?
<Guest81196> it won't let me do 64gb?
<Guest81196> can some one help me please?
<dwatkins> Guest81196: what do you mean by 'do 64 GB', please?
<Guest81196> i mean i want to have a 64gb hdd that ubuntu can use on my usb
<dwatkins> How large is your USB device?
<Guest81196> 64gb
<Guest81196> everytime i do it i only get 4gb
<dwatkins> What filesystem are you using on it?
<Guest81196> windows
<Guest81196> or ubuntu
<dwatkins> I mean the type of partition, FAT32?
<Guest81196> i tryed fat32
<Guest81196> and ntfs
<Guest81196> ext3
<Guest81196> but nothing works : (
<dwatkins> I wasn't aware you could use anything but FAT with unetbootin; the limitation of FAT32 is what's limiting your persistent filesystem to 4GB.
<Guest81196> what do i do then?
<Guest81196> make it ntfs
<Guest81196> ?
<dwatkins> Does the link cited mention NTFS? I've not read it through yet.
<Guest81196> it said that 4gb is the limmit
<dwatkins> I wouldn't be surprised if that's because FAT32 is the only supported filesystem, or the one with the largest single file size limit.
<dwatkins> May I ask why you need more than 4GB on a bootable USB drive?
<Guest81196> i want to use it like a desktop
<Guest81196> i just do
<Guest81196> i got lots of music
<Guest81196> video files
<Guest81196> i got around 40gbs
<Guest81196> of stuff i want to put on it and other work files
<dwatkins> You'll probably find after making a fair amount of changes to it, that it becomes rather slow reading from the USB device; you can, however, store your video and music somewhere else.
<diddledan> OT but mildly humorous : http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2013/04/26/unfortunate-publishing-layouts-of-our-time/
<dwatkins> How about a bootable USB stick that's fairly small, perhaps xbmcbuntu, and a separate stick for media?
<Guest81196> yeah but i want everything stored on the usb and used on the os on the usb
<Guest81196> it is usb 3.0 so it should be ok right?
<dwatkins> Guest81196: you could have a 2nd partition on the 64GB USB device with the media in it
<dwatkins> Guest81196: is the device USB 3.0 compatible?
<Guest81196> i tryed that and then ubuntu couldn't boot but i don't think i did that right
<Guest81196> yes
<dwatkins> cool, what is it?
<Guest81196> how do i put a 2nd partition on a usb?
<Guest81196> and still have it bootable
<dwatkins> carefully
<Guest81196> if i could have a 2nd partion that is like 60gbs or so around that be great
<dwatkins> should work, just make sure the first partition is FAT32 so you can put a bootable environment in it with unetbootin, perhaps make a small persistent file (1 or 2 GB in size) in case you need to install drivers for the sound card, wifi etc., and a secondary partition of whatever type you want (assuming Ubuntu and whatever OS you use can see it)
<Guest81196> so i can save music to the 2nd partition
<dwatkins> in theory yeah
<Guest81196> and it will stay there?
<Guest81196> ok can someone walk me threw how to do this please
<dwatkins> yeah, it'll be independant from the first partition with the bootable Ubuntu installation
<Guest81196> so is the first partion primary or
<dwatkins> I'm not going to be awake for long, you can probably ask on #ubuntu and get help there, but a lot of it is documented on the wiki.
<Guest81196> so is the 1st partiton primary
<dwatkins> both would be primary partitions, there's no need for extended partitions, as you don't have more than four of them.
<Guest81196> ook
<Guest81196> so both primary
<Guest81196> no logical
<dwatkins> indeed
<Guest81196> ok thanks
<dwatkins> What tool are you partitioning with?
<Guest81196> easeus partition master
<Guest81196> ok i have 2 partitons that are primary
<dwatkins> Not used it, obviously make sure you have a backup of any important data etc.etc.
<Guest81196> the smaller partition is ntfs
<dwatkins> why?
<Guest81196> idk should i make it fat32?
<dwatkins> yes please
<Guest81196> ok
<dwatkins> Do you have any video files over 4GB in size?
<Guest81196> yes
<Guest81196> also should i make the 2nd partition active?
<dwatkins> No, the first partition should be the active one, I believe.
<Guest81196> ok
<dwatkins> I assume you currently have your videos on a Windows system, so you'll need to make the 2nd (larger) partition NTFS so it supports files larger than 4GB.
<Guest81196> i am making the 2nd partition fat32
<Guest81196> ok so both partitions are fat32?
<dwatkins> If you use FAT32 for it, you won't be able to store videos over 4GB in size on it.
<Guest81196> o
<Guest81196> so make larger 1st partion ntfs
<Guest81196> and smaller 2nd fat32
<dwatkins> no, the first partition should be 4GB in size and FAT32, the second 60GB and NTFS.
<Guest81196> o ok
<dwatkins> You'll be booting from the first partition.
<Guest81196> both primary right?
<dwatkins> yes, both primary
<Guest81196> and then after that i just install ubuntu?
<Guest81196> on the 4gb 1st partition right
<dwatkins> no, you'll need to use unetbootin to copy the contents of an Ubuntu ISO to the 1st partition on the USB stick
<dwatkins> It's not quite the same as installing Ubuntu to it.
<Guest81196> ok
<Guest81196> and after that it should be all done and work?
<dwatkins> I think so, yeah. Make sure you set a 2GB persistent filesystem with unetbootin, of course.
<Guest81196> ok
<Guest81196> but everything on the other partition will be saved right
<Guest81196> and ubuntu can see the other partion?
<dwatkins> The 2nd partition is independant of the 1st. Ubuntu should be able to see the 2nd partition after booting, yes.
<dwatkins> Where is the media at the moment?
<Guest81196> o ok
<Guest81196> it is still partitoning
<Guest81196> i amd making sure that i am formating it 10 times to make sure nothing is left alive
<dwatkins> wow, that sounds like overkill ;)
<Guest81196> last time i have readyboost from windows 7 on there and it fucked everything up
<Guest81196> couldn't even read the usb on anything that took me a long time to fix
<dwatkins> I've not used that, I assumed it just used the stick as a swap partition, and therefore wiped it.
<Guest81196> yeah
<Guest81196> i think so
<Guest81196> so after parttioning it and doing all that i should be good?
<dwatkins> yeah, to be honest I've not done this myself, but I've partitionned USB sticks before and used unetbootin plenty of times, so you should be ok.
<dwatkins> I tend to be here most days, so might be able to help if you have problems.
<dwatkins> Where are the videos and music files at the moment?
<Guest81196> on my exsternal hdd
<Guest81196> its 6tbs
<Guest81196> i got 10tbs
<Guest81196> total on my system
<dwatkins> ok cool
<dwatkins> Synology?
<Guest81196> 3 intal hdd
<Guest81196> runing raid
<Guest81196> one exter hdd
<diddledan> oh dear, syria has aparently disappeared from the internet
<Guest81196> for real?
<diddledan> http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/05/07/syria-disappears-off-internet/
<Guest81196> how much is 4gb in mg
<Guest81196> i mean mb
<diddledan> 4000
<diddledan> or if it's MiB then 4096
<Guest81196> thank you
<Guest81196> ok done
<Guest81196> thank you so much everyone
<Guest81196> i am off to make it linux
<Guest81196> i mean ubuntu
<Guest81196> lol
<dwatkins> welcome, Guest81196 :) good luck
<diddledan> good luck
<Guest81196> i got 2 partitions
 * diddledan crosses his toes
<Guest81196> 1st one is primary and 4gb
<Guest81196> and fat32
<Guest81196> 2nd one is primary and 60gb and ntfs
<Guest81196> thats all good right?
<Guest81196> which version of ubuntu should i put on?
<Guest81196> the newist
<dwatkins> Yeah
<dwatkins> What kind of PC is it?
<Guest81196> custum build
<Guest81196> but what version of ubuntu should i put on
<Guest81196> should i put on 13 or 12
<dwatkins> 13, should have all the latest hardware compatability fixes
<Guest81196> ok
<dwatkins> 13.04, of course, the one that was recently released
<Guest81196> and if i do this the usb and still do updates and stuff right?
<dwatkins> I'd be wary of using it like a 'normal' installation like that
<dwatkins> you'll run out of space very quickly
<dwatkins> Perhaps look up how to just install security updates if you're paranoid, but since (presumably) the system won't be open to the internet, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
<Guest81196> o ok
<Guest81196> so how should i use it
<Guest81196> so i should do lte
<dwatkins> use what, Guest81196?
<Guest81196> linux 12 lte
<Guest81196> i mean ubuntu 12 lte
<Guest81196> or ubuntu 13
<dwatkins> That's long-term support, LTE
<Guest81196> yeah
<Guest81196> which should i use
<dwatkins> Are you expecting to need bugfixes and to be able to update it in several years' time?
<dwatkins> Personally, I'd go with Ubuntu 13.04. I'd only bother sticking with LTE on a system that's a server.
<Guest81196> o ok
<Guest81196> thanks
<dwatkins> It also stands the best chance of having an up-to-date NTFS driver.
<Guest81196> o ok
<Guest81196> so it will see the 2nd partition
<dwatkins> should do, yeah
<Guest81196> : )
<Guest81196> : )
<dwatkins> Guest81196: I didn't realise this, but you won't be able to access the 2nd partition if you put the USB stick into a Windows machine, sorry.
<dwatkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent states: "Windows will only mount the first partition of any removable media - which includes USB flash drives. While you can get around this, it requires some highly kludgy driver procedures, which you are unlikely to be able to pull off on any machine where you are not an admin."
<ali1234> get two usb flash drives, this is the best way
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-08
<ali1234> get a small one (4GB) for ubuntu
<Guest81196> o
<Guest81196> but can ubuntu reconize it?
<Guest81196> cause that is all i really care about
<dwatkins> ali1234: I think I suggested this initially
<dwatkins> Guest81196: yes, it can
<Guest81196> WOOT
<Guest81196> : D
<Guest81196> well that works for me
<Guest81196> where can i find it
<Guest81196> when i have it installed
<Guest81196> the 2nd partition in ubuntu
<dwatkins> it should have an icon on the desktop, I guess
<shrik> Folks, my wireless networking appears completely busted :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<dwatkins> aloha
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy World Red Cross Red Crescent Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> is that a thing?
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, would I lie to you? ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> yes....
<SuperMatt> morning
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, http://www.icrc.org/eng/
<JamesTait> diplo, o/
<SuperMatt> awesome
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<Laney> happy Oh Well, That Was A Nice Summer While It Lasted Day
<JamesTait> Laney, +1
<MooDoo> Laney: lol
<brobostigon> -1, in that heat and humidity my eczema freaks, so not good.
<Myrtti> I personally prefer this more
<Myrtti> my plans to do several loads of laundry doesn't
<MooDoo> I like this weather when I'm at work, but not coming from or going home on the motor bike.
<popey> ooh! laundry, thanks for the reminder
<JamesTait> I was in the garage yesterday. Peace and quiet and no distractions.
<Myrtti> we tried the Monday purchase yesterday
<Laney> you man you
<JamesTait> Today it's too cold in there, so I'm back in the conservatory, and can hear the TV in the lounge.
<SuperMatt> I'm supposed to be going for a run in this weather later
<JamesTait> Laney, I should really stop calling it "the garage" and start calling it "my office", since that's what was supposed to happen.
<Myrtti> https://www.weberbbq.co.uk/product/weber-original-charcoal-pizza-oven/ (It is really amazing)
<JamesTait> Pizza!
<Myrtti> also apparently developed in UK
<Laney> oh yeah, that's what it is - yesterday i talked about buying a bbq, thereby causing the nice weather to end
 * JamesTait glares at Laney.
<mungbean> if scotland went independent, can we rescind all their knighthoods?
<iliketocode> Dang it. In 13.04 the bluetooth is crazy crashiy, sometimes my audio codec is not detected at startup and I can't power down the discrete GPU eloquently or adjust the screen brightness.
<iliketocode> And all of this is happening because of closed sourced hardware
<iliketocode> Just crazy
<iliketocode> How many times do we have to reinvent the wheel?
<popey> 12?
<iliketocode> :) that seem about right
<jpds> iliketocode: Good thing that you like to code and can try to fix the code.
<jpds> Go to it.
<popey> Zing.
<mungbean> 2 hex core processors (24 total processing cores)
<mungbean> ^^ what is this witchcraft?
<mungbean> surely hex core means 6 processing cores per socket
<Laney> dodeca?
<iliketocode> I guesstimate that the amount of repetition and parallel work being done because of this insane, fear driven closed metality we are being held back about three decades.
<iliketocode> Yes but I am currently coding something else like most people I suppose
<iliketocode> Okay maybe more like 5 year
<Myrtti> hm, I think I might have ascended from thinking of getting XPS13 or Pixel into considering older Thinkpads.
<iliketocode> But sometimes it feels like a few decades
<Myrtti> (in the meantime I just bought myself more time to consider my options by ordering a replacement keyboard for my current laptop)
<mungbean> similarly, the datasheet says single 4 core processor (8 processing cores)
<mungbean> this is lies innit?
 * Laney did that by getting an SSD
<Laney> miracles happened
<Myrtti> Laney: I'd need my screen replaced and I'm not sure this old warhorse is worth that
<iliketocode> Yes will all the issues I just mentioned are happening on a DELL XPS L501X
<Laney> self repairable?
<Laney> not that i've ever done that, just heard of people doing so
<iliketocode> Myrtti, Screen replacement is pretty straight forward if you can find a inexpensive replacement online.
<Myrtti> there's light and dark glitches, not entirely sure where the problem is exactly. I suspect they're dead insects. Thrips, thunderbugs or whatever they are called
<Laney> at some point it does become the better option to just give in and buy a new one though
<Myrtti> also the led's are semidead
<Myrtti> leds, even
<Laney> i hope by the time this laptop gives up we have decent support for high-dpi displays in linux
<iliketocode> mungbean, I believe that would be referring to Multi Threading
<Laney> hyper
 * popey eats some gummi bears and acts hyper
<iliketocode> Myrtti, Hey I also just brought a new replacement keyboard, a back lit one
<iliketocode> Yes thanks Laney, that what I ment
 * Laney thinks about blueprints
<iliketocode> *meant
<mungbean> hyper threading does not multiply the processing cores
<mungbean> HT = logical cores
<mungbean> still the number of processing cores remains static
<iliketocode> mungbean, Intel thinks it does
<jpds> iliketocode: No.
<jpds> iliketocode: http://ark.intel.com/products/65713/Intel-Core-i7-3517UE-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2_80-GHz
<iliketocode> Don't tell them they might get upset
<iliketocode> Just kidding.
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4309936/spotify-nightmare-chrome-extension-lets-users-download-any-song   oops
<iliketocode> That was just the impression I got from the Intel fan boys when it first came out
<iliketocode> Yes I was a bit of an AMD fan boy
<mgdm_> popey: yeah, saw that - "d'oh"
 * popey considers himself neither an Intel nor ARM fan boy
<mungbean> iliketocode: the OS displays more processors, but they are logical. the actual processing cores is sockets x cores
<popey> however I refuse to buy AMD(ATI) video cards
 * mungbean is an ARm sharholder
<iliketocode> Yeah I have has some pretty big Linux (open) related problems with AMD(ATI) in the past and now I am having issues with Nvidia
<iliketocode> Crazyness
<iliketocode> Maybe next time I will get a Laptop from System 76
<iliketocode> I think I would rather build my own though
<popey> I've had no nvidia based issues for the last couple of years really
<iliketocode> With a risk based processor
<iliketocode> Cool popey
<iliketocode> Glade to hear it
<mungbean> has decided that the datasheet is wrong, suppored by other datasheets on the web and facts he alerady believes to be true
<shrik> for future reference, when wrestling with wifi problems, first port of call should be changing the channel on the router. Gah.
<mungbean> shrik: use wifi anaylser on android to assess channel busyness
<iliketocode> The card I am referring to is a mobile card which figures I suppose
<iliketocode> mungbean, sweet
<popey> yeah, i had awful wifi reception at the last sprint in oakland, turned out the hotel hadn't turned off their most powerful wifi access point which was directly above my head, and conflicted with the canonical access points
<shrik> mungbean: that's what I ended up doing (after overcoming a mild twitch at the word 'analyzer') -- solid app, that
<popey> silly rabbits
<Laney> i started being able to see my 5ghz network at home after upgrading to saucy
<Laney> \o/
<iliketocode> I am quite apprehensive to try again to install the Nvidia proprietary driver on 13.04 for my GF GT 420M as every previous attempt has resulted in a very dead Unity.
<shrik> how can i find out if my wireless card supports wireless n..?
<brobostigon> iwconfig
<shrik> hmm
<shrik> output of iwconfig says: eth2      IEEE 802.11abg
<brobostigon> abg :)
<mungbean> wireless n doesn't work for my intel 4965agn on linux :(
<iliketocode> And also prefer the idea of running an open source driver just wish switcheroo work a little more smoothly
<shrik> but the output of
<shrik> but the output of 'iw list' shows 5+ GHz frequencies as "disabled"
<shrik>        Band 2:
<shrik>                 Frequencies:
<shrik>                         * 5170 MHz [34] (disabled)
<shrik>                         * 5180 MHz [36] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
<shrik> and so on
<iliketocode> What driver are you using?
<shrik> the bcmwl thingy
<iliketocode> Oh
<iliketocode> Well
<iliketocode> Broadcom
<shrik> right, Broadcom
<iliketocode> I wish they did't exist
<shrik> the bane of my Ubuntu life
<iliketocode> If it an easy thing for you to order a replacement open friendly wireless card I highly recommend that you do
<iliketocode> I have see them form 5 to 20 bucks
<shrik> would it be easy to replace on an old-ish laptop?
<iliketocode> An if you are in the states, europe or the uk then your options are huge and shipping is quit often free
<iliketocode> Yes it could be
<iliketocode> The only three things I can thinks of are,
<shrik> ah ok
<iliketocode> 1) PCI version
<iliketocode> 2) Card size
<iliketocode> 3) OEM BIOS lockout BS
<iliketocode> The last one is the sole reason why I will not buy HP any more
<iliketocode> All the best and bye for now
<shrik> thanks a bunch, iliketocode
<selinuxium> morning all. o/
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> moring
<BigRedS> Gooooood Morning!
<Myrtti> I should go get more coffee
<BigRedS> I got back to my desk which still has half a glass of coke on it :)
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> ewww coke
<mungbean> ewww fizzy sugar solution
<directhex> coke is a bad cola
<directhex> but cola can be delicious
<BigRedS> it doesn't seem so bad
<BigRedS> ew. it's very flat :(
<MooDoo> it's like cold overnight coffee, you either love it or hate it
<mungbean> had my first (half) can of cokes in years
<mungbean> t'other day
<mungbean> felt guilty
<mungbean> and jittery
<Seeker`> why guilty?
<BigRedS> yeah, I started drinking Dr Pepper zero as my substance that I convert into productivity
<directhex> coca cola is overly fizzy, and has a sludgey flavour.
<BigRedS> it's much better than Coke, but probably a good deal more awful in health terms
<mungbean> Seeker`: guilty about my teeth
<directhex> i keep finding new tasty colas which get discontinued :(
<Seeker`> mungbean: half a can won't rot your teeth
<directhex> this is where ikonia joins in and laments the cola market
<mungbean> meh stopped buying humble bundles after i realised i don't actually play them
<BigRedS> which colas are better? That sounds like another set of drinks with good scope for interesting variety, actually
<SuperMatt> mungbean: I bought it, which means I've oficially paid for psychonauts 3 times already
<SuperMatt> 1) when it first came out, 2) when it was in a bundle, 3) this new bundle
<jacobw> I just drink coffee, and sometimes don't even turn it in to productivity.
<MooDoo> Head Desk
<mungbean> coffee just sets a new basline
<Myrtti> myh, my amaretti didn't taste nice :-(
<Myrtti> (or right)
<mungbean> 7week old baby did a loud fart and dog barked cos she thought it was somebody knocking at the door
<mungbean> o_O
<dogmatic69> anyone have recomendations for making screen cast things? eg: tutorials for youtube of some app usage?
<popey> kazam
<popey> or vokoscreen
<dwatkins> You know you live in the future, when her majesty the queen uses the word 'cyberspace'
<mgdm> funny you should say tht
<mgdm> it makes me think we're still in the 80s
<popey> +1
<christel> haha
<czajkowski> christel: <3 never leave us again
<christel> haha
<popey> she left us?
<popey> ã
<christel> i wasn't intending to come back for some time but then some staff had a meltdown and demanded that i return immediately
<christel> popey: only for five and a half months, noting noticeable ;)
<czajkowski> christel: ah so we just had to have a mini melt down and you'd have come back
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> shudda done it sooner
<christel> i was intending to be gone for a while longer :)
<christel> haha
<popey> how very dare you
<mungbean> if anyone remembers my baby @ wedding convo the other day...
<Myrtti> I tried to emulate somekind of motherly presense but my snark and sarcasm didn't masquerade too well
<christel> see, i figured it was safest that way -- pregnancy turns me into a hormonal wreck so my thinking was that it would be safest for users if i well, wasnt around
<christel> lest i kline them all for existing
<czajkowski> mungbean: how could we not :)
<czajkowski> christel: oh I can give you a list :)
<mungbean> we emailed the couple and they said "we had unanimous agreement that babes in arms should come along, will be v happy to see you all"
<mungbean> "also tell XXX who is due soon too"
<christel> aww :)
<christel> i am missing out on two weddings due to "no children" clauses (she'll be 4 and 7 weeks respectively so still very much attached to the boob) -- i clearly timed it badly :)
<dwatkins> I was impressed with the patience the people running my friend's citizenship ceremony showed in the face of three crying babies yesterday
<dwatkins> people stipulate no babies at weddings now?
<mungbean> well i would take any baby outside who was crying
<mungbean> i get a lot of practice at church every week
<christel> dwatkins: yeah
<MooDoo> depends on the place you are,
<mungbean> but there is a separate room with live video feed for nursing parents
<MooDoo> babies cry, fact :)
<dwatkins> I'm quite surprised at that - what if a vitally important guest got pregnant between the wedding being arranged and it happening...
<christel> (depends on the person(s) i guess, some do, some doesnt) :)
<mungbean> cry , poo, sleep, rinse and repeat
<MooDoo> mungbean: your first?
<mungbean> 2nd
<MooDoo> cool
<MooDoo> my 2nd is 2 in sept, time flies
<mungbean> 7 weeks atm
<MooDoo> awesome
<mungbean> yeah...
<christel> bigcalm is doing the "no kids" thing for his so they sorta had to uninvite me, though he said itw as because they didnt fancy entertaining children -- i guess it would be unfair on other parents if they okayed me bringing a newborn after telling everyone else "no kids" :)
<mungbean> i might agree soon :P
<christel> mungbean: 7 to go or 7 gone? :)
<dwatkins> I used to help out with Sunday school, there were always loads of kids running around, so I'm always surprised at any event that effectively bans them (apart from something like a night club, obviously)
<mungbean> gone
<christel> :)
<MooDoo> i'm thankful i've passed the no sleep stage with my two yay!
<mungbean> its so much harder with another toddler already runnign around
<christel> how old is your first? :)
<mungbean> 3yrs 4 months
<MooDoo> our situation has to be the most bizare ever....4 people in my family, 2 birthdays :D
<mungbean> :)
<christel> hehe
<mungbean> my 3yr old decides he hates daddy speaking to him, or doing anything for him when mummy is around
<mungbean> when mummy not around, he says i'm super
<MooDoo> funny that, my daughter is the same
<mungbean> NOOOO DADDY DONT SPEAK
 * popey boggles
<mungbean> feisty young man
<MooDoo> my 4.5 year old is "daddy lets fight with lightsabers, mummies can't do that" lol
<mungbean> when he's good, he's wonderful
<mungbean> he laughs more with me than with mummy, and generally rally enjoys himself
<christel> (i am bringing a newborn on the ubuntu rat in september mind!)
<Myrtti> brave
<popey> blimey
<popey> that seems... unwise
<christel> haha i reckon it'll be fine, you weren't all that rowdy last time!
<popey> we're not the only people on the train
<MooDoo> christel: give them a dummy dipped in beer let them sleep ;)
<christel> ew dummies are for dollies! ;)
<mungbean> trains have a calming effect
<MooDoo> christel: yeah your right :)
<christel> MooDoo: if she's anything like her brother she probably wont do much bar sleep for the first few months
<mungbean> dummies shouldn't be reintroduced after 3 months. mine woldn't take it before then anyway
<mungbean> oh...colic o'clock
<MooDoo> christel: bless :D
<popey> ours had dummy till they were ~4 iirc
<popey> maybe 3
<popey> they both "gave them away"
<christel> aww :)
<popey> Sophie switched to thumb
<popey> which she was advised not to do by dentist
<MooDoo> son gave his away to babies that didn't have one :) and daughter hasn't had one
<popey> now she has a brace
<mungbean> my boy has a comfort blanket like linus
<mungbean> although it remains tie to his bed now, rather than taking it everywhere
<MooDoo> cool my son has teddies in his bed lots of them
<MooDoo> think we need a #ubuntu-babychat channel ;)
<mungbean> mine has shaun the sheep and neep and the snowman
<popey> Sophie had "raggy", sam has "taggy"
<mungbean> found a good snowman game on android
<mungbean> snowman and snowdog
<mungbean> introduced angry bird star wars yesterday and he loved it
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taggies-Little-Polker-Dot/dp/B004X0WEE8/
<popey> those
<mungbean> he loves star wars even though he doesn't know what it is
<mungbean> :S
<christel> see, i used to think i was being all clever by not introducing any comforters of any kind... as a result i have a 3 and a nearly half year old who will dive down the front of my clothes to hunt for the boob whenever he is upset/tired/annoyed/whatever... balance, i missed it and it backfired
<mungbean> he just knows its something great
<popey> yeah, sam only saw star wars recently
<popey> he still hasnt seen III
<popey> not missing much, but the vader story
<mungbean> he only knows star wars lego pyjamas and me singing the imperial march song
<mungbean> and already knows how awesome it is
<mungbean> that confuses my adult mind
<MooDoo> my son is into avengers at the moment..
<mungbean> what's that?
<SuperMatt> when he grows up he'll realise DC > Marvel
<MooDoo> The Avengers
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: he's a superman fan as well :D
<SuperMatt> Good lad
<mungbean> we have a big stash of comics in the loft
<mungbean> i don't like them though
<MooDoo> I got a dandy and beano annual for christmas :)
<mungbean> oh thats different. beano rules
<MooDoo> :D
<mungbean> i just don't get the marvel/dc stuff
<mungbean> they are a bit weird to me
<mungbean> i've tried reading and just filled with meh
<MooDoo> i'm looking forward to taking my sone to warhammer world here in notts :)
<mungbean> is it a museum?
<SuperMatt> interesting news on ubuntu looking for new ways to do apps
<mungbean> i have to take a day off work to let my wife go to cinema to see star trek
<MooDoo> mungbean: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=2200008&aId=21000003a
<mungbean> i don't mind GW so long as its a gatewy drug to airfix :P
<mungbean> as a more noble hobby
<popey> \o/ Podcast day
<MooDoo> mecanno next
<mungbean> that gundam/gunpla stuff seems huge in japan
<MooDoo> yay for podcasts
<christel> i know this lovely guy who used to "work" for games workshop
<christel> he is the cutest
<mungbean> ?
<MooDoo> but i've never met you christel ;)
<christel> MooDoo: i was talking about ian livingstone ;)
<MooDoo> christel: I know you was talking about someone else lol
<christel> i introduced mc44/moocow to him on friday
<christel> it was absolutely hilarious
<christel> mc44 was all "OMG I AM ONE OF YOUR BIGGEST FANS AND I LOVED YOUR BOOKS WHEN I WAS A KID AND OH MAN I AM MAKING SUCH A FOOL OF MYSELF AND YOU'RE PROBABLY FINDING THIS REALLY AWKWARD"
<christel> and ian is all "Oh, no i always enjoy meeting an old fan... which of the fighting fantasy books was your favourite?"
<christel> "..." *blank stare" "I HAVE NO IDEA!"
<mungbean> yeah i read all the fighting fantasy books from the 1st one
<mungbean> city of thieves
<christel> ::)
<christel> -:
<mungbean> island of the lizard king
<christel> i never managed to finish return to firetop mountain, i still maintain this must be due to a printing error!
<mungbean> was one of the only ones that didn't end on 400
<mungbean> my sister drew an awesome map of the city of thieves
<mungbean> a wasted talent she has
<christel> :)
<mungbean> playing fighting fantasy on the kindle aint quite the same
<mungbean> wikipedia not working...bad sign
<mungbean> waiting for bits.wikimedia.org
<ali1234> i'm surprised they didn't move to online sooner really
<ali1234> i mean that stuff is ideal for the web
<ali1234> even web 1.0 lol
<Myrtti> not sure if that makes sense
<mungbean> a friend was telling me about an ipad game where the screen is blank and you hear 2 voices telling you what to do (one of them benedict cumberpants)
<mungbean> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/the-nightjar/id431598741?mt=8
<dwatkins> I started with Citadel of Chaos, the artwork on the front brings back happy memories for me: http://www.fightingfantasycollector.co.uk/book_covers.htm
<christel> :D
<mungbean> does this link work? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Fantasy
<mungbean> after a while i stopped bothering with throwing the dice for fight scenes
<mungbean> i had 1-18
<brobostigon> yay for tablet with 3g, working from the pub in the sun.
<mungbean> my missis got a galaxy tab 10.1 hand-me-down...really nice
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> far nicer than my touchpad
<popey> brobostigon: which tablet?
<dwatkins> mungbean: yes, link works
<dwatkins> I wrote my own choose-your-own-adventure book once, it had 10 pages.
<mungbean> dwatkins: works now
<mungbean> :)
<mungbean> was shagged before
<dwatkins> ah I see, silly wikipedia and all the traffic they get
<popey> i wrote one in geography gcse class in 1986
<mungbean> all that money i give them
<popey> i failed geography
<mungbean> i got C in geog, then they sent my paper back and i got a B
<dwatkins> mine was for english class
<mungbean> the marker hadn't bothered marking it properly
<popey> i wrote mine as we went along, when someone made a choice I didn't have a page for, i wrote it
<popey> i just had 2 choices per page
<mungbean> sounds a lot like a wiki
<mungbean> or the web
<popey> if you chose option A then Page = Page * 2, if you chose option B then Page = (Page * 2) +1
<popey> :D
<mungbean> did anyone else not bother with the dice battles?
 * dwatkins gingerly raises his hand
<mungbean> would be lame to buy the book and say, nah couldn't finish it cos some goblins came along
<mungbean> i was hoenst with the potions etc
<mungbean> you drank beer, lose 10 strength
<mungbean> i also liked twin kingdom valley on the acorn
<dwatkins> mungbean: yes, that game was great
<dwatkins> It had very few images, drawn slowly, but fuelled my imagination
<mungbean> the grate is locked
<mungbean> unlock grate
<dwatkins> noes!
<mungbean> a grate is open
<mungbean> down
<mungbean> it is dark here
<dwatkins> light lamp
<popey> mine started in a pub, you had two choices, leave pub or switch on jukebox..
<popey> jukebox explodes
<dwatkins> popey: that's mean ;)
<popey> yeah â»
<dwatkins> mind you, the H2G2 game was quite mean too
<mungbean> i think TKV was zork inspired
<popey> only two options, people had to die at some point
<dwatkins> mungbean: did you play Emerald Isle? That was similarly awesome.
<mungbean> i never completed TKV
<CaMason> anyone got any thoughts on why ctrl+alt+shift+arrow isn't moving windows in xfce4?
<mungbean> nope dwatkins
<dwatkins> not easy to find for beebem, but it's a great adventure game from what I remember
<mungbean> any thoughts on the apache/nginx vulnerability?
<mungbean> i played wheel of fortune and other epics as hampstead heath and terrormolinos
<dwatkins> it's a little scary, I hope I'm ok as I don't have much PHP on my server
<dwatkins> no idea how they're getting in, though
<mungbean> i have boxes and boxes of 4GB RAM sticks PC3L ECC 10600
<mungbean> what can i do with them?
<mungbean> microservers don't like ECC RAM
<popey> fleabay
<mungbean> only seems arond 10-15 per stick
<brobostigon> popey: my nexus tethered to my htc dream.
<shauno> mungbean: if they're matched sets, either sell 'em as such rather than per-stick, or put them away until they're more outdated.  it's not unusual to pay â¬250-300 for 8x4GB for ddr2.  yours are cheaper than they should be because they're still in production
<mungbean> shauno: unsure if matched pairs: m392b5273ch0
<mungbean> have around 50+ sticks
<shauno> I wish I could use them :/  I'm still trawling fleabay for ddr2
<diplo> .
<mungbean> ..
<diplo> heh someone sent me a wall message on the vps im on, broke the dispaly on irssi
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Want to see if writing anything changed
<shauno> try /redraw?
<diplo> Just resized the screen, that worked :)
<Myrtti> ctrl-l might also work
<diplo> ok ta
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMRCeQBAKI :)
<mungbean> context?
<MartijnVdS> language geekery :)
<MartijnVdS> pedantry really
<mungbean> ok. bot needs to parse youtube titles
<dwatkins> is there an equivalent on freenode to blitzed's 'find' bot, that just gives the title of any URL posted?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I met him, he liked my t-shirt (it had the number 42 on it) :D
<mgdm> there are a few bots that do that
<mgdm> there's one in another channel that does exactly what you said, btu it's written in PHP (!)
<MartijnVdS> p..p..php?
<MartijnVdS> HE SAID THE P-WORD
<mgdm> initialism rather than word
<mungbean> supybot
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I encounter many of those common mistakes on IRC and Facebook, I tend to just ignore then nowadays and let people fail at writing their CVs
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: hah, they haven't even upgraded to being gits ;)
<popey> christel: do you use a BB10 device?
<mgdm> I have one in my desk drawer
<christel> nej
<popey> mgdm: is it BB10?
<popey> not old BB
<mgdm> popey: yes
<popey> ooh
<mgdm> it's a Z10, I think?
<meet> hi. i am unable to connect my facebook chat with ubuntu gnome. i am using it for chat. It worked without problems for some days. But for the past week I am getting authentication failed errors. Unable to connect to facebook. how do I look for the problem?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-09
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<Myrtti> Ascension day today :-P public holiday in Finland
<DJones> No public holiday here for it, unusually, we haven't got a Church service, there's normally something arrange
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: same in .nl
<MartijnVdS> though I wonder why.. nobody even goes to church anymore
<mungbean> nobody?
<Myrtti> my hometown is in big trouble because the church is way oversized for the current congregation apart from confirmation Sundays
<Myrtti> when a lot of relatives of the kids attend
<mungbean> i know many churches with year on year doubling of numbers
<mungbean> >1000 ppls etc
<MartijnVdS> We don't have that in .nl
<MartijnVdS> Only declining numbers
<mungbean> well there is a trend of late that only christians are attending church
<Myrtti> numbers have been going down ever since you could resign the church officially easier too
<mungbean> as opposed to culture dictating church attendance
<MooDoo> lots of church number are dwindling, people just don't need it any more
<JamesTait> Several months ago we had a visit from a friendly old man, who turned out to be a Jehova's Witness.  I humoured him for a while and thought that would be the end of it.  Now he visits every week, around Wednesday lunchtime, and I make my excuses and leave my wife to chat with him.
<mungbean> so we are just seeing truer numbers
<JamesTait> So we don't go to church, the church comes to us.
<mungbean> except they are a cult
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: draw (in blood) a pentagram on the door, and open it naked
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: then shout back into the house "Honey, LUNCH just arrived!"
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: see if he ever returns :)
<directhex> there is a strong correlation between belief in a deity, and national education standards
<directhex> the US is a huge outlier there, for having okay education but high levels of religiousness
<MartijnVdS> directhex: lack of belief, I guess?
<DJones> I wouldn't say it was commonplace in the uk, there aren't significant numbers of new young families/people starting to attend, its normally older people who are regulars and as they get older, the number of regulars declines due to age
<JamesTait> I told him quite plainly the first time he called that I don't believe in a creator.  I think he thinks because I haven't told him to get lost, he can convert me.
<mungbean> directhex: also the poor/rich have different levels of belief. beware of attributing causation where there is only correlation
<directhex> MartijnVdS, negative correlation is still a correlation
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure
<directhex> mungbean, and the poor/rich have different levels of education, especially in "poor" countries!
<directhex> mungbean, also, i carefully said "correlation" not "causation"
<mungbean> yes
<MooDoo> directhex: did I read that right as in if you believe you have a better education?  sorry got a bit of a headache so not thinking straight
 * mungbean has a first class science degree
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no that's the "negative correlation" bit
<directhex> MooDoo, countries where people are well educated usually have fewer people who attend religious service than countries where people are poorly educated (and/or poor)
<directhex> with the usa as an exception to that
<MooDoo> people are realising you don't actually need to be religious to get on in life
<mungbean> well God isn't an ATM
<mungbean> except in africa, then pastors tend to preach wealth and prosperity ...
<popey> Indeed. ATMs exist.
<MooDoo> +1 popey
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/9/4314844/nokia-asha-501-new-platform-launch interesting
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm going to need proof of that
<mungbean> lost an hour of my morning as i foolishly booted into windows yesterday to use vmware
 * popey points at his bank statement from the past.. surely you believe this written proof from the prophets of "Santander"!?
<mungbean> then ...installing 50 of 72
<MooDoo> vmware o/
<popey> eww
<MartijnVdS> popey: All bow to Saint Ander! :)
<popey> â»
<MooDoo> mungbean: that's the only reason I have a partition on my laptop for windows and vmware
<mungbean> yes, ubuntu and vsphere OS
<mungbean> i prefer that to using VMs but today it bites me
<mungbean> has anyone seen instances of snapshotting a VM causes processes inside the vm to crash?
<MooDoo> mungbean: well i'm using esxi 3.5 but the client is only for windows
<MartijnVdS> http://resme.me/3ub21d.jpg
<MooDoo> having a good day then MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you know it! ;)
<MartijnVdS> Was anyone outside last night? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22460716
<diplo> I was, but didn't see it :)
<MooDoo> I didn't even know about it :(
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nobody did until it happened :)
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> i was up till gone 4am
<mungbean> not outside though
<mungbean> not sure why it made the news
<mungbean> doesn't it happen a lot?
<diplo> Quite a bit, but not as noticable I guess as that
<mungbean> i wonder where it landed
<popey> people were tweeting about it last night
<Wobbo> I would like to install the NVidia because the open source replacement is not going well at Asus eee1215N. Only the old way you could install this software no longer exists? In addition, my Wifi is also not good, this is an old problem. This problem is only for when you use the closed / commercial source. Alth very surprising that Ubuntu does as anti closed / commercial source. Can anyone help me?
<bigcalm> Mornin' all
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: what's "the old way"?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: there has been one "proper" way for years now
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: (and that's through jockey(-gtk))
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
<Wobbo> Old way is 12.04 and 12.10.
<Wobbo> Sorry
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it's still the same in 13.04
<Wobbo> Yes and no,
<Wobbo> At first, the standard was not closed / commercial source but now.
<popey> eh?
<Wobbo> So 13.04 is using the closedsource version for my Wi-fi instead of the opensource version.
<popey> depends on your wifi card
<popey> very little changed in terms of what drivers get used between 12.04, 12.10 and 13.04
<popey> it's mostly just "newer stuff" in the newer releases
<Wobbo> How to uninstall the current closedsource software Wi-Fi
<popey> depens on your wireless card. what make/model is it?
<Wobbo> And how to install NV?
<popey> nv isn't maintained anymore
<popey> nouveau (open source) or nvidia (closed) are
<MooDoo> i just used the closed source drivers for nvidia from the additional drivers section of the software sources :D
<diddledan> brb, switching machines
<Wobbo> Thanks
<SuperMatt> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/235237/did-the-queen-just-resurrect-the-snoopers-charter <- more reasons to ignore slashdot - they don't actually know anything about The Queen. TBH though, I struggle to find a news site that is at least as fully featured, without the idiocy
<SuperMatt> it's the daily mail or tech
<SuperMatt> *of
<BigRedS> I tried HN for a bit, but that's even more fanboisim and even less news... :(
<MartijnVdS> arstechnica is OK
<mgdm> HN is OK if you only look at the links
<mgdm> Do *not* read the comments
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> BigRedS: out of interested (wrt your comment on czajkowski's G+ post) where did you hear lament of Ubuntu server? Was it in an ubuntu channel or outside our "space"?
<mgdm> (which is good advice for much of the internet)
 * popey tickles mgdm with a spreadsheet :0
<popey> â»
<SuperMatt> for instance, when the new packaging system was announced to be in development, the readers all jumped up and down and said "why are you ditching apt?" without reading that apt wouldn't be ditched
<mgdm> popey: I gave it a go to discover it was dead :-) left it charging overnight, will do it at lunch
<SuperMatt> mgdm: HN?
<mgdm> SuperMatt: Hacker News - news.ycombinator.com
<popey> booo
<SuperMatt> ah right
<BigRedS> popey: it's the common grumble at work currently. I think we hit a couple of daft bugs and the assumption is that this si because attention's switched away from the server and towards desktops
<popey> yeah, i use hn now and then
<SuperMatt> I've noticed that ars has been getting a little traction recently, I might start peeking at that more and mroe
<popey> BigRedS: difficult given separate teams work on each really
<BigRedS> we're also institutionally afraid of The Cloud, so that's all sort-of viewed as a bit of a distraction from 'proper' servers
<BigRedS> yeah, I found it hard to imagine anyone being pulled off the server and given work on a DE...
<mgdm> I've come around to the mindset that all my machines are disposable
<mgdm> doubt I'll ever deploy something on bare metal again
<mgdm> "that's not working? kill it, rebuild it"
<BigRedS> mgdm: yeah, that's one of the benefits I've been trying to impress upon the people who make decisions here
<mgdm> my dev server is a Vagrant box built with Puppet, too
<mgdm> so if it breaks it's dead easy to start again
<popey> BigRedS: have you seen the "please dont call it cloud" thread on the debian list?
<Laney> rms â¥
<MartijnVdS> popey: link? :)
<popey> hah
<popey> http://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/04/msg00032.html
<popey> it's a big thread
<directhex> i am tempted to reply to that thread with a link to a chromium extension i use, which replaces all in-text instances of "the cloud" with "my butt"
<MartijnVdS> directhex: does it also do this: http://xkcd.com/37/
<directhex> "I agree with Richard and would like to add that having a philosophy about "my butt" may be futile"
<mgdm> That ext caused hilarity recently when someone I know did a talk at ac onf called 'Keeping the cloud in check', which he kept on getting told was obscene
<mgdm> turned out the guy who thought it was obscene had that extension and forgot about it
<BigRedS> popey: ooh, no, I've been ignoring debian-users for a while now...
<BigRedS> popey: A few paragraphs in, that could be written by one of the directors here :(
<BigRedS> Oh. RMS.
<MartijnVdS> root mean square?
<directhex> "I believe it is really important that you understand it fully, so that you can discuss "freedom in my butt" in general"
 * brobostigon points at his mouth, and says, insert coffee here please. :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: just drinking mine now.....
<MooDoo> :p
<MartijnVdS> bah, coffee
 * MartijnVdS makes some more tea
<brobostigon> yummy, yes please.
 * brobostigon makes some coffee
<directhex> jesus christ RMS is a moron. he is utterly incapable of comprehending any computing concept from post-1980
 * brobostigon slurps, :)
<mgdm> does he still use that toy computer because it's the only thing in the world with open firmware?
<diddledan> popcorn time?
<mgdm> I wonder if he thinks that the hardware is entirely innocent :-)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: he doesn't care about closed hardware.. as long as he has enough specs to write the software
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: also.. his "free software" ideals don't extend to documents in "human" languages
<mgdm> so the hardware could be backdoored from here to the moon and he'd not care :-)
<MartijnVdS> so documentation? out.
<Myrtti> yay new keyboard
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> using rhn, how can i define that a server uses 6.2 release only and not 6.x (yum upgrade will update it to 6.4)
 * popey blinks
<mungbean> i could ask in redhat but they aren't as friendly o_0
<JamesTait> mungbean, you're not asking Ubuntu questions in there are you? That might explain it. :-P
<mungbean> :P
<diplo> centos channel is awful
<mungbean> nah just relationship advice
<diplo> How about setting in the repo files to release=5.5&arch=x86&repo=os ?
<diplo> When using vault.centos.org you have to manually set the version you're using
<diplo> Good example maybe, not found an offical resource yet though
<diplo> http://linuximagination.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/upgrading-centos-54-to-55not-latest.html
<brobostigon> wow 25mph SW wind,
<awilkins> The change to nautilus that means that typing starts a search, rather than selects an item in the current view, is really really annoying me, can it be configured to go back to the old way of doing it? (I presume so, I haven't noticed it on boxes I've upgraded to raring, just boxes that I've installed fresh)
<SuperMatt> awilkins: I'm not sure it can be. I've actually found that to be extremely useful as it seems to now be searching subfolders too. So now I just go in to my videos folder, type xx and it'll find the prons I want from a subdir
<awilkins> Yeah, it sucks for me because I have a vast hierarchy of files and it really makes things chunder
<awilkins> We're talking folders with 20,000 files nested in them
<diddledan> that's a lot of pron
<awilkins> 20,000 videos (of any kind ;-) ) would be too big for most hard drives
<awilkins> Mostly source code
<mgdm> single hard drives perhaps, RAID arrays no
<awilkins> I'll have to look for the option later, had not reflected that my upgraded machines aren't doing it but my new install is
<awilkins> If it's one of these things where you have to enter cryptic dconf commands or edit an XML file I shall be vexed. Flippin' Gnome and their "Hide the useful stuff from people in case they use it"...
<popey> awilkins: i agree
<popey> i hate the new way nautilus works
<awilkins> No in-pane tree expansion
<popey> \o/ GNOME
<awilkins> Stupid typing == search rather than navigation
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what was the script that you used that generated a pretty diagram of a website's bottle necks?
<christel> Bottled by Bell.
<christel> (i made that up)
<mgdm> that sounds like a perfume
<bigcalm> christel: \o/
<christel> hullu bigcalm!
<christel> mgdm: would you wear it? :)
<mgdm> I'd think about it, but then I'd probably bottle it
<christel> haha
<mgdm> how goes it, christel? Not seen you around these parts for a while
<christel> it goes well! :)
<mgdm> \o/
<czajkowski> BigRedS: you're brave to reply to that unusal thread :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: the thing that does this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yes
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm looking at webgrind, same thing?
<AlanBell> xhprof
<bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks
<AlanBell> http://phpmaster.com/the-need-for-speed-profiling-with-xhprof-and-xhgui/
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I was puzzled, it seemed a reasonable question :)
<czajkowski> could just back things up to the cloud for the most part
<bigcalm> AlanBell: the page helps a lot, thanks again. Looks like I'll be tinkering with it later
<czajkowski> and if you are a technican of any sort you should have another HD
<czajkowski> alternaitvely borrow one.
<czajkowski> but not sending the device back...
<bigcalm> So. How do people feel about dressing up for the RAT in September? :)
<czajkowski> negative :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<czajkowski> gonna be a fun night
<christel> dressing up eh? :)
<czajkowski> bunch of the LUG folks are coming also
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> czajkowski: get them added to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/?
<czajkowski> they won't :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I did nearly check how much free S3 you get, but then I realised that I wasn't that interested
<christel> i shall add myself to that seeing how i have procured tickets a while bakc
<czajkowski> tbh the replies to the service desk were rather rude tbh - they've offered to collect it and fix it, like anything though evne when I sent my machine back  you have to accomdate the request if you want your stuff fixed
<czajkowski> christel: w00p
<popey> Uh-oh!
<popey> overhearing the "christening" conversation going on in the kitchen
<mgdm> You're mishearing. THey're inviting christel round.
<MooDoo> chritstel is having a party and we're all invited? ;)
<christel> for christeling?
<mgdm> yes!
<mgdm> or something
<popey> haha
<mgdm> I can't quite hear popey's kitchen conversations from here
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> mgdm: you're a rubbish spy!
<mgdm> christel: the mic is in a different ro*AHEM*
<bigcalm> I want to report an issue that the issue tracker is sending duplicate emails. Except that will result in me getting duplicate emails
<czajkowski> popey: is that a bad conversation :)
<popey> depends
<popey> Azelphur: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/weve-got-a-butterfly-labs-bitcoin-miner-and-its-pretty-darn-fast/
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> czajkowski: we came to an agreeable solution which is the kids will choose what they want when they're old enough
<czajkowski> nods
<popey> sam started asking about it today because one of his friends must have brought it up I guess
<czajkowski> I asuumed it wasn't about your kids
<popey> yeah, it is
<popey> Sam started asking more questions and whether he should be or not
<czajkowski> ahh
<popey> i dont believe 6 is old enough to make the decision
<czajkowski> no
<czajkowski> not really considering you only make your comunion when you're about 8 and that;s only just enough time to undersand it all, and 12 for confirmation
<neuro> ah communion and confirmation ...
 * neuro remembers them well
<neuro> i bet ubuntubhoy does as well </enforce-stereotype> :)
<AlanBell> anyone following the discussion about reinventing the package manager wheel?
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkByAkAdZs&feature=youtu.be <-- favourite add I keep rewatching
<AlanBell> the bit I don't get is the problem of apps overwiting their own code
<AlanBell> why is that a terrible thing?
<neuro> because it's naughty?
<AlanBell> why?
<neuro> because it is?
<neuro> i basically have no argument here
<popey> because you test something that says "I wont do naughty things"
<popey> and then it self modifies to do those naughty things
<neuro> popey++
<neuro> polymorphic code \o/
<popey> allows programs to self-update
<popey> See Facebook on android
<AlanBell> hmm, so to avoid the problem of apps being able to overwite their own code we currently use sudo dpkg -i foo.deb , which allows the installation scripts of foo.deb to overwrite important stuff
<popey> well they cant now because they dont have rights
<neuro> but is that downloading new support data within its sandbox, or is it modifying the apk?
<popey> not sure how fb does it, but it's "bad"
<jacobw> DEBIAN/md5sums?
<popey> such that google says so
<neuro> facebook doing something "bad"? NOOOOOO!
<Azelphur> popey: you reminded me I needed to call BFL about mine, just did it :p
<AlanBell> I can see that it isn't brilliant, however installing as root seems worse
<popey> AlanBell: but we curate those debs
<Azelphur> the guy on the phone sounds a bit lost lol
<popey> there's a difference
<Azelphur> but, apparently I'mma be one of the first to get one
 * neuro points at package signing too
<jacobw> Maintainer scripts shouldn't change any files other than the package's conffiles
<popey> when debs install the install scripts run as root, which is bad mmkay
<popey> you don't want random fart apps to have root on your phone
<neuro> maybe *you* don't
<popey> I don't. No.
<neuro> fart
<neuro> you now have the word 'fart' in my head, cheers
<neuro> fart
<jacobw> I don't want to be the guy who let the app the bosses kid downloaded steal his credit card details
<mgdm> it's OK, you won't need apps for that, now that the Onion have released fartscroll.js
<neuro> mgdm: faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart?
<mgdm> neuro: http://theonion.github.io/fartscroll.js/
<AlanBell> yeah, I would rather that the install scripts run sandboxed
<mgdm> neuro: make window small and scroll
<neuro> jacobw: apps that enable cc payments outwith the app's ecosystem should burn in hell
<neuro> mgdm: EPIC
<neuro> love the comments too
<AlanBell> jacobw: yeah, but maintainer scripts *can* do whatever they want
<AlanBell> maybe this new format won't have stuff in the bundle that gets executed
<AlanBell> as part of the installation that is
<popey> exactly
<popey> basically it should contain a zip (or whatever) containing the app, and a manifest which tells apparmour what the app is allowed to do
<neuro> mgdm: actually the comments remind me of some random commit comments i've been making for the last couple of days
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> neuro: http://whatthecommit.com/
<jacobw> They can, but Debian policy disallows maintainer scripts that change files from other packages or files in the package that aren't conffiles
<jacobw> It's a complete policy, it just doesn't accodomate for things like Webmin
<AlanBell> indeed, so when installing a random .deb the first thing you do is give it root access to your system before you figure out what is in it
<AlanBell> or you unzip it and read the scripts
<AlanBell> or you get it from a trusted repository
<jacobw> That's true, but that's the point of the policy, you won't get a maintainer script that changes files it shouldn't from Debian
<neuro> mgdm: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-09%20at%2017.54.10.png
<ubuntubhoy> neuro: which of my stereotypes ?
<AlanBell> nom nom doggy noms http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-plans-dogfood-capable-phones-by-the-end-of-May-1859877.html
<mgdm> neuro: ffs :P
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: i have (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that you were raised RC and thus subjected to communion and confirmation
<neuro> mgdm: ffs? :)
<mgdm> neuro: crap commit messages do my head in :-)
<neuro> the commit itself was relatively self explanatory
<neuro> also i'm really the only one using that repo
<mgdm> my 'favourite' one of late consisted of one line saying 'weird', while committing one useful change to a CSS file, a bunch of random reindenting to another CSS file, and a zero-byte a.out file
<mgdm> People who git commit -am "weird" without doing a git diff first ought to be launched into the sun
<neuro> nice
<neuro> yes, i agree
<ali1234> i love how ever bzr project has thousands of commits called "temp commit" and similar
<neuro> "Sorry, this commit history took too long to generate." Gee, thanks github
<mgdm> I'm not fond of git merge commits either, but I can live with them I suppose
<ali1234> github just went down btw
<ubuntubhoy> neuro: nope - was raised without religion - Catholic dad & Jewish mother, went to a non-dom (Protestant) school, and lived in an area with a majority Asian population. To me all religion is bollocks
<neuro> lucky sod :)
<neuro> good catch on non-dom ... at the high school I went to (the Gregory's Girl one), it always amused me we got carted off to the Kirk every easter, and you got funny looks if you wanted to stay behind
<neuro> ali1234: seems ok here, apart from not being able to look at a git repo's commit history
<ubuntubhoy> neuro: I think it's a Scottish disease though.
<neuro> aye
<neuro> my folks were pretty good about it but i was still going to chapel til i was 18
<neuro> (altar boy, ha!)
<mgdm> the graphs on https://status.github.com/ do show a bit of a spike
<neuro> then i made some Religious Life Choices
<neuro> so yeah, popey, make em wait til they're 18 :
<neuro> :)
<neuro> blimeh
<neuro> spikage
<neuro> i need to build something like that at my new gig
<popey> indeed, 16/18 or thereabouts sounds fair :D
<popey> when they can do whatever they like and not actually ask me
<neuro> "leave me aloooone!" :)
<ubuntubhoy> at `1
<popey> hopefully by then all religions will be eradicated and the world will be more enlightened anyway ã
<ubuntubhoy> at 18 they only have one question
<mgdm> neuro: I have an NFS server that the clients keep getting 'nfs: server 10.19.0.42 not responding, still trying' - any idea what resource on the server itself I need to increase?
<popey> can I have a car?
<ubuntubhoy> can I get (insert expensive option here)
<neuro> umm buffery things?
<popey> sophie asked for an ipod touch for xmas
<ubuntubhoy> how old ?
<mgdm> neuro: do you know the name for the buffery widget things?
<popey> 9
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<popey> bunch of her friends have them
<mgdm> (also buffery is something you don't want to typo)
<popey> they're very popular amongst that age group
<popey> a few have ipads
<ubuntubhoy> popular in every age group
<popey> well, yes â»
<neuro> mgdm: http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s05.html maybe?
<ubuntubhoy> my youngest two bought their own iPod touches with birthday/xmas money and savings
<neuro> buy her one and lock it down?
<popey> yeah, I dont mind if they buy their own
<neuro> with your own apple id
<popey> but I'm not buying one for them
<popey> too expensive
<neuro> or ok, don't :)
<ubuntubhoy> we limit xmas & B'day pressies
<popey> they both have ipods already
<ubuntubhoy> same amount on all four
<ubuntubhoy> never anything mental
<neuro> yeah but ipods don't do "stuff"
<mgdm> neuro: I've added more instances of the nfsd. Might prod t'other ones eventually. Dont' want to break it, clearly :)
<neuro> totally
 * neuro is going to be looking at glusterfs soonish
<popey> you have four kids ubuntubhoy ?
<neuro> and tossing out oracle mysql in favour of percona
<mgdm> I'm looking at either percona or perhaps mariadb
<neuro> maria is allegedly not as compatible as percona
<mgdm> o rly?
<mgdm> didn't hear that
<neuro> allegedly
<mgdm> we'd be doing a 5.1 -> something newer migration anyway
<neuro> but it can do funky stuff like multi-master plus slaves which apparently mysql and percona can't do
<mgdm> hmmm
 * neuro is looking at a multiple 5.1+5.5 migration :P
<mgdm> we just do normal master/slave tuff
<neuro> it's going to be a paaaaaaain
<mgdm> our infra is not that tricky in the grand scheme of things
<neuro> i'm leaning towards master+slave as it gives bigger DR options, so we can chuck a slave in ap-southeast-foo or us-west-foo
<ubuntubhoy> popey: yeah 12, 14, 21 and 23
<bigcalm> Getting a little unhappy on the ml today :S
<neuro> but multi-master sounds ossm
<neuro> perfOOOOOrmance!
<mgdm> percona are cool of only because of xtrabackup
<neuro> ^ this
<neuro> but as a co they are frickin amazing
<neuro> they helped us loads at linden lab
<mgdm> I've met a couple of blokes from them at various conferences - they do know their stuff
<neuro> they Know Stuff
<neuro> ha
<popey> meh @ list
<popey> Liam is right IMO
<neuro> which list, uk?
<bigcalm> Hai
<bigcalm> I mean yes
<neuro> popey: just caught up, i agree
<neuro> if you're not backing up business critical data, especially from a laptop, you're mad
 * neuro has rsnapshot and time machine running everywhere, saves so much hassle
<bigcalm> 2 x 2TB discs should be here on Monday to replace current backup drives. Do I go with 4TB of space or 2TB RAID1 like the other 2 drives in the server?
<bigcalm> The latter means I need to remember how to set-up the raid again :)
<jpds> bigcalm: RAID5.
<jpds> Actually, probably a bad idea on disks that size.
<popey> \o/ btrfs
<neuro> :)
<bigcalm> Tea time!
 * bigcalm slithers awau
<bigcalm> away
<neuro> i only use raid1 when i absolutely positively need some form of data security
<neuro> raid5 for everything else
<neuro> raid0 is deadly
<neuro> imho
<neuro> been burned by it before
<neuro> never again
<popey> Happy Birthday Daviey !
<CyberJacob> evening all
<mungbean> howdy
<CyberJacob> Is anybody else getting 'moderated list' messages for the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
<popey> CyberJacob: are you subscribed?
<CyberJacob> yup
<CyberJacob> And I replied from the same address I'm subscribed with
<popey> strange
<CyberJacob> I've replied from the wrong address before, and I think the message just got blocked
<popey> your address is set to moderation
<CyberJacob> ok, any idea why?
<popey> nope â»
<popey> have undone it
<CyberJacob> thanks :)
<mungbean> 10.04 ends today? argh
<mungbean> my desktop at work runs it
<popey> really windy out
<popey> yes
<mungbean> yes, its like october
<jacobw> That's an odd description
<mungbean> wind & rain
<mungbean> watching hoarders prog. feeling convicted
<mungbean> too much stuff , too small house
<popey> i love those hoarders programmes
<popey> what channel is it on?
<mungbean> bbc1, not as good as "the hoarder next door"
<mungbean> this one is britains biggest hoarders
<mungbean> just been scoffing my face after watching secret eaters
<mungbean> hoping to get to sleep before 4am toinght
<mungbean> poorly child
<mungbean> anyone used http://project-redcap.org/ before?
<mungbean> this bbc version is more about bag ladies and mad ppl
<popey> \o/
<popey> Mr Trebus
<Stuz719> \part
<shauno> oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen a nerd on any of these 'hoarder' shows
<mungbean> last week was a guy with old pcs and car parts
<mungbean> but not a usual geek because extreme behaviour is a bit of an ollness
<mgdm> I know several people that could be ;-)
<mungbean> i had >10pcs before i got married
<mungbean> msinly due to office clearance
<mungbean> i gave them to ppl
<makt> Evening all :)
<mungbean> last week i threw away some amiga memory and ps/2 kb/mice
<mungbean> and loads of ram
<popey> i know someone who is a geek and a hoarder
<popey> you have to climb over stuff to get into his house
<czajkowski> popey: Jon :)
<mungbean> he hoards tech?
<czajkowski> everything and anything
<czajkowski> bucket and buckets of cables, radios, old computers, discs, ram
<mungbean> my house is q bad right now but me mrs e 2 tired with sprogs
 * czajkowski is a tidt freak 
<czajkowski> and I like things in boxes even clear boxes
<diddledan> I think genetically men are incapable of throwing things away :-p (said as a man)
<czajkowski> was great fun moving down from london, got a load of clear containers and one box was for each area , phones, radios, cables, etc had to get more boxes, he doesnt like getting rid of stuff
<czajkowski> diddledan: I find the disapproving look to be a good look at things not being kept
<popey> my den is quite tidy for me
<popey> tidy enough that I can get the sofa bed out
<czajkowski> popey: tidy in the view of your webcam for hangouts :)
<popey> yup
<popey> its tidy outside the cone of clean too
<popey> right, bed
<czajkowski> toodles
<daftykins> although he may not necessarily wear clothes outside of the cone of cam view :>
<fujisan> hello
<fujisan> where can i download the new Ubuntu and can i run it on a single core AMD cpu?
<bigcalm> fujisan: ubuntu.com and yes :)
<fujisan> thanks
<daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso
<daftykins> that one no less
<fujisan> oh wait
<fujisan> my CPU isnt 64 bit
<daftykins> no?
<fujisan> it's 32
<fujisan> it's very old
<daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
<daftykins> is it an AMD Athlon XP?
<fujisan> oh thanks
<fujisan> yes
<fujisan> how did you know?
<bigcalm> Should work still
<daftykins> mmm might not perform very well
<daftykins> how much RAM?
<bigcalm> They were very popular, lucky guess :)
<directhex> athlon xp was awesome, once
<fujisan> 2 gb
<fujisan> lol directhex :)
<directhex> i had a duron
<bigcalm> I still have mine
<directhex> too cheap for athlon
<daftykins> well before the Athlon64 there were only AMD Athlon XP's and AMD Semprons that were 32-bit only
<fujisan> yes it was in 2004 when i got it
<daftykins> :D
<fujisan> how much to built a new AMD pc you reckon?
 * bigcalm throws some shapes to The Crystal Method and gets back to bench testing
<fujisan> i have a Mac but i wont Ubuntu since we use it at work
<daftykins> some say they're cheap but i always put together intel 'cause they just seem to win it since the last few years
<daftykins> i've wanted to check out a modern AMD system - just don't want to pay to find out
<directhex> amd is dirt cheap
<fujisan> yeah i just want a rig that runs Ubuntu fairly decent i dont need anything high end
<daftykins> fujisan: just run xubuntu or lubuntu instead
<directhex> cpu is about tree fiddy. motherboard is five quid plus a kingsize snickers.
<fujisan> i tried those both on my old PC
<daftykins> they'll still run well on old hardware
<fujisan> and the irony is im not trolling is that windows7 seems to run better on old hw than Ubuntu these days
<daftykins> directhex: damn monster tell me he need tree fiddy ;x
<fujisan> better*
<daftykins> hmm
<fujisan> but i like the new direction of Ubuntu
<fujisan> so i want to try it at home as well
<daftykins> i'm right now debating buying a PATA SSD for Â£100 for my old Sony ultra-portable, it runs Windows XP on an intel core solo ultra low voltage 1.2GHz
<daftykins> i guess it'd be kinda stupid for me to put money into something so old :>
<fujisan> yeah maybe i still kept my old PC
<fujisan> i dont like to throw out something just because it's old
<fujisan> i spend 80 euros on it a few years ago to get a new powersupply
<daftykins> yeah stuff like that's fine
<daftykins> i ran my Athlon XP until Christmas 2007/8
<daftykins> then i upgraded to an intel core 2 quad
<daftykins> gave the Athlon XP to a friend :) he kept her going for a few more years
<daftykins> he eventually finished studying to be a Doctor so finally could afford his own though
<fujisan> oh okay that's great
<daftykins> but yeah the little laptop isn't really much use to me
<daftykins> lives on a shelf at the moment
<fujisan> in my city we even have repair centers for old appliances it was even featured in the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/world/europe/amsterdam-tries-to-change-culture-with-repair-cafes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
<daftykins> ooh neat
<daftykins> it's definitely how it should be
<daftykins> culture's too disposable
<fujisan> yeah
<daftykins> it does make me sad when people just buy a new PC when all it needs is an OS reinstall or say, a new HDD
<daftykins> equally though they probably don't want to pay me my hourly rate to sort it out
<daftykins> as that's the kind of work i do
<fujisan> yeah well some people just want the latest and the greatest
<daftykins> hmm i don't even know which is newer of AMD Piledriver + Bulldozer
<fujisan> me neither
<fujisan> i just wonder if i could get a nice budget AMD system for 300 euros
<fujisan> maybe i should double that budget though :)
<fujisan> and it's not for gaming so i can get a cheap gfx card
<daftykins> Ah Piledriver appears newer
<daftykins> why have a card at all if it's got onboard? :)
<fujisan> yeah good point i didnt know AMD did that
<daftykins> they might not be the top performers mind you
<daftykins> i found a recent AMD vs. Intel kind of article
<daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested
<daftykins> comparing at the top end, a Â£125 AMD FX8350 to an Intel i7-3770K at Â£233
<daftykins> that's definitely quite the price difference
<directhex> daftykins, my cpu is 4 years old now.
<daftykins> what are you running? my desktop has a Q6600 on LGA775
<daftykins> so that's about 5yrs
<directhex> also mobo and half my ram. and psu and case. and blu-ray drive. and speakers. i think that's all the original components
<directhex> daftykins, i7 920
<directhex> on socket 1366
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> i remember that being the premium option at the time
<directhex> super premium :|
<daftykins> hehe
<directhex> >Â£100 motherboards
<daftykins> she's lasted well though
<directhex> as entry level for the socket
<daftykins> i don't know if you remember fraggy from quakenet, but he is running about the same
<directhex> i tried cheaping out on the only sub-Â£100 mobo, an XFX. DOA.
<directhex> got it replaced. DOA.
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> officially stung
<directhex> paid the price difference for gigabyte. fine first time
<directhex> problem now is a significant cpu upgrade without replacing the mobo is... LOTS of money. LOTS.
<daftykins> i'm glad i gave up the upgrade game
<daftykins> ja indeed, you may as well get a new case and do a whole separate build
<daftykins> i've the same situation with LGA775
<daftykins> and do you know, i don't even think the upgrade would feel justified, even once Intel's Haswell is out
<directhex> the cpu support list for this mobo is 66% xeons
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> Â£Â£Â£
<directhex> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2958
<daftykins> there we go, a top-end Nehalem? :>
<daftykins> 130W TDPs feature a lot there >_<
<directhex> about Â£50 00 on ebay for a W3690 nehalem
<directhex> er, Â£500
<directhex> used
<directhex> imported
<directhex> bed.
<daftykins> nn sir
<daftykins> fujisan: AMD Trinity is what you want to look at for budget CPUs with graphics
<daftykins> just read what they are :D
<shauno> your nicks seem to line up just enough that for a moment there, I thought it was just one person talking to himself
<daftykins> me and hexy are actually one schizophrenic individual :(
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-10
<ball> Oh!
<popey> Morning
<popey> Mailing list seems a bit feisty at the moment
<jpds> popey: Not saucy?
<popey> â»
<MooDoo> morning all
 * popey wonders why Half Life 2 (Beta) doesn't have an "Install" button for me on Linux.. 
<SuperMatt> does for me
<SuperMatt> how queer
<SuperMatt> seeing as how it's not going to be a beautiful day, I might play it at lunchtime
<mungbean> oh, HL2? i might be able to continuie where i left off
<mungbean> 5 yrs ago
<popey> heh
<mungbean> i was in a boat i think
<popey> muhahah, steam downloading at 8.4MB/s
<popey> clearly not opened this in a while
<BigRedS> yeah, whenever there's a new for-linux game I need to wait for steam to update before installing it and finding that it doesn't work on my pre-sandybridge mobile graphics
<jacobw> Portal \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Windmill Day! :-D
<MooDoo> lo
<bigcalm> 2013 and PPAs still don't support changelogs - why?
<bigcalm> And good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm, patches welcome?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, and good morning. ;)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: ha :P
<bigcalm> Just surprised at how long we've had PPAs without that feature
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I know the feeling, and I don't know the reason.
<JamesTait> I suspect if patches are actually welcome, it wouldn't be beyong my capabilities, but I have far too many projects going on as it is.
<bigcalm> I know diddly about LP
 * JamesTait invents new words as he goes along.
<JamesTait> I suspect the main problem is that for packages in the archive, the changelog gets replicated to changelogs.ubuntu.com, whereas for PPAs that doesn't happen, so the changelogs are buried in debian/changelog in a .tar.gz or a .deb
<JamesTait> So maybe the change would have to be double-pronged - get the PPA subsystem to write the changelogs somewhere in the PPA, and make apt aware of the location of said changelog.
<JamesTait> But, LALALALALALALALALA I'm not going to get sucked into it.
<WTFShelley> Morning all
<JamesTait> WTFShelley, o/
<WTFShelley> @JamesTait, hi
<popey> Blimey, I clearly don't open Steam very often. It's downloaded 15.7GB so far since 9:07 this morning.
<WTFShelley> wow beefy internet at your house
<mungbean_> mmm beef
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<jacobw> Good morning
<popey> Correct.
<selinuxium> morning all o/
<mbs_> darn it, is there a way to reset my username/password on the irc server?  cant remember my password, or im i boned?
<mbs_> *am*
<MooDoo> mbs_: If you forget your password, but still have access to the email account that is associated with the IRC account, staff can send a password reset email. Simply ask in #freenode or PM a staff member to have the email sent.
<jacobw> The staff on Freenode are helpful
<mbs_> cheers Moo, Jacobw
<jacobw> mbs_: See if you can get a cloak while you're at it, it makes you look cooler :)
 * bigcalm bounces all over the place
<bigcalm> HL 2, ep1, ep2, lc. All ready to be installed
 * bigcalm wibbles
<SuperMatt> mine are already installed :)
<MartijnVdS> wait WHAT?
<MartijnVdS> *click*
<directhe`> steamy
 * bigcalm is very glad for the virginmedia upgrade right now :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I assumed as much :)
 * MartijnVdS is glad with his 100/100 atm :)
<jacobw> LC?
<MartijnVdS> well fibre, not atm :P
<bigcalm> jacobw: Lost Coast
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: get your money quickly
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: asynchronous transfer mode ;)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: aww :P
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 100/100 is stm, surely?
<jacobw> ATM ftw
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's ethernet
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have an ethernet "media converter" that spits out my ISP on VLAN 6 (PPPoE) and TV on VLAN 4 (if I were to get the subscription)
<bigcalm> Damn my 120GB SSD. Need to make space or hook up a USB3 drive for gaming
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 500GB SSDs are becoming affordable
<jacobw> bigcalm: I just brought a lpatop with a 512GB SSD for Â£700
<bigcalm> :O
<MartijnVdS> just sayin' :)
<bigcalm> I am possibly a cheapskate
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "I might have a bit of Scottish ancestry"? ;)
<MartijnVdS> (sorry Scots)
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: with Cuthbertson as my surname, this is 100% true
<MartijnVdS> I need a faster disk for /home
<MartijnVdS> it's a 2TB 5400RPM disk now :(
<bigcalm> Yay or nay? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-STBV2000200-Expansion-Desktop-Drive/dp/B0084LZI5Y
<MartijnVdS> I have an external Seagate drive
<MartijnVdS> I don't trust it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> I'll only be using this for Steam games. So if it dies, just download again
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-250GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7C9Y
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: slowly coming down. I don't have so much spare cache though
<bigcalm> s/cache/cash
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Do I want to wait until next week for the drive to be delivered for free, or buy it today from PC World for 15 quid more?
<bigcalm> I have a horrible feeling that it'll be the latter
<jacobw> PC world, weekend usage.
<bigcalm> Yeah
<jacobw> You won't be buyng anything else at the weekend while you're busy with your Steam games
<bigcalm> :D
<directhe`> bigcalm, is it cheaper from pc world online?
<bigcalm> directhe`: no
<bigcalm> Well, doesn't seem to be: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/data-storage/hard-drives/desktop-external-hard-drives/seagate-expansion-sgr39211-external-hard-drive-2tb-black-16787143-pdt.html
<bigcalm> Slightly older model
 * bigcalm grumbles with indecision
<popey> bah!
<popey> why wont it let me install HL2 Beta?
<bigcalm> Humbug?
<popey> directhe`: fix it
<bigcalm> popey: works for me
<directhe`> popey, restart steam
<popey> restarted
<popey> no install button
<directhe`> steam://install/220
<popey> "Half-Life 2 (Beta) is not available on your current platform."
<czajkowski> wow you're nice enough to lend out a HD popey and you still get crap.
<popey> same for Portal beta
<popey> czajkowski: not lend, give
<MartijnVdS> popey: So that's why it's downloading at 4MB/seconds :)
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> even worse
<MartijnVdS> popey: hm, what happens if you choose "Client update' from the "Steam" menu?
<directhe`> popey, hm. hang on...
<directhe`> popey, quit steam, erase ~/.local/share/Steam/ClientRegistry.blob
<MartijnVdS> Funky! http://i.imgur.com/O3HDobf.jpg
<MartijnVdS> or should I say "Trippy"
<directhe`> ._.
<directhe`> your opengl be screwed
<directhe`> reminds me of doom3 on voodoo2
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: pre-ivy bridge Intel
 * popey tries that 
<bigcalm> czajkowski: wrong Alan, oops :S
<popey> hmm
<popey> i have no .local/share/Steam
<MartijnVdS> popey: ~/Steam or ~/.steam then?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: ah you got the mail
<popey> aha
<czajkowski> didnt arrive in my inbox
<MartijnVdS> for me it's in ~/Steam/ClientRegistry.blob
<popey> ~/Steam
<directhe`> super old steam install @_@
<bigcalm> Early adopters
<popey> â»
<popey> ya
<directhe`> your steam.deb is 1.0.0.38?
<popey> pre beta
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: yes
<popey> nope, still no install button
<bigcalm> popey: try a fresh steam install on a different machine?
<popey> no â»
<directhe`> popey, steam deb is 1.0.0.38?
<popey> 1.0.0.14
<directhe`> jesus
<popey> I should probably update that? â»
<popey> where from?
<directhe`> you need to update that to at least... 1.0.0.31, for recent games to think of working
<MartijnVdS> popey: apt?
<MartijnVdS> deb http://repo.steampowered.com/steam/ precise steam
<MartijnVdS> deb-src http://repo.steampowered.com/steam/ precise steam
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> It's been updating itself for me
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have those in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/steam.list
<directhe`> http://media.steampowered.com/client/installer/steam.deb
<directhe`> steam.deb adds the repo itself
<directhe`> so just dpkg -i steam.deb
<popey> this looks better
 * popey notes czajkowski called me Alan Bell
<directhe`> the client verifies itself to make sure the deb is properly up to date, as of the late 1.0.0.20's, so yours is too old to know it's too old
<MooDoo> popey: we've never seen you in the sam.....er i'll shut up
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> popey: should just stick to Alan
<czajkowski> law of averages I'l get it right
<bigcalm> :)_
<popey> haha, now when I open steam it says "Couldn't find steam content, did you move it"
<czajkowski> why I didnt get my own mail is more annoying even though I've that set on the mailman settings
<popey> WHO MOVED MY CHEESE
<directhe`> om nom cheese
<popey> then a EULA
<popey> then updating again
<popey> czajkowski:
<popey> bah!
 * czajkowski offers popey an egg bap 
<Dave2> popey: that must be rather annoying
<directhe`> popey, /usr/bin/steam is an updater and bootstrapper. you need an up to date /usr/bin/steam to take care of updating ~/Steam
<popey> now I think I'm going to end up with no games
<Dave2> It's not ~/Steam any more, is it?
<MartijnVdS> It is for me..
<Dave2> At least, since reinstalling onto my new SSD I think it's in a dot-directory somewhere
<bigcalm> PC World doesn't have the drive in stock in my local store. No HD for me!
<Dave2> oh, I completely missed discussion of this, I suck.
<Dave2> bigcalm: is there a deal on, or did you just fancy paying far too much?
<directhe`> popey, if it shows you no games, manually move the folders from Steam/SteamApps/common/ to .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/
<bigcalm> Dave2: wanting it now so I can use it over the weekend
<directhe`> and the gcf files, for tf2
<directhe`> and the acf files, technically
<MartijnVdS> I want the GTA series to be ported to Linux :)
<popey> i cant login â¹
<directhe`> but you could just say "install this game" and it'll download the acf file again, recheck your game folder that you manually moved, and not redownload
<popey> it hasn't sent me the code email
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: Really?
<directhe`> slow mail server is slow
<popey> aha, here it is
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Yeah, 3, Vice City, San Andreas
<directhe`> MartijnVdS, i don't see it happening.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I have them in Steam on Windows.. but rebooting = hassle
<MartijnVdS> directhe`: not soon, no.. but they're still porting those to new platforms, I think (Android comes to mind)
<directhe`> android is a major growth platform
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu might become one too, if the phone/tabled thing gets off the ground ;)
<MartijnVdS> tablet*
<directhe`> the phone/tablet thing doesn't help here unless the phone/tablet run intel
<popey> yay!
<popey> it finded stuff once I moved it
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> HL2 has an install button!
 * popey abuses his internet
<czajkowski> huzzah
<jacobw> I'm looking forward to more details on the apt/dpkg improvements
<popey> thank you directhe`
<SuperMatt> jacobw: do you mean the new packaging system that was announced?
<jacobw> SuperMatt: Yeah
<SuperMatt> it won't be anything to do with apt/dpkg ;)
<czajkowski> jacobw: are you following the mailing list
<jacobw> czajkowski: Which mailing list?
<czajkowski> jacobw: ubuntu-devel mailing lis t
<czajkowski> it's where the thread was poste with the information
<jacobw> czajkowski: ubuntu-uk has a lot of consumer rights and odd expectations of PC World salesmen sized noise
<jacobw> czajkowski: Thanks, I'll read that
<czajkowski> not to mention how packard bell should deal with people
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> it's an unusal list :)
<czajkowski> jacobw: there will also be a session at vUDS next week on it
<czajkowski> you can find that out via http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<jacobw> czajkowski: I'm not affliated with Canonical in anyway other than having a Launchpad account, is vUDS accessible to me?
<czajkowski> jacobw: yup vUDS is open to anyone and everyone
<jacobw> :)
<czajkowski> jacobw: the sessions are public and online and on air :)
<czajkowski> jacobw: you can register via LP to attend not that it actually matters now it's online tbh
<directhe`> popey, tbh i'm impressed it was still letting you log in with such an old client version
<czajkowski> jacobw: each session has an etherpad and a youtbe video, but also a blueprint associated with it
<popey> baffled me
<czajkowski> it's good to know even popey gets baffled, makes us all feel more human :)
<jacobw> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-click-package
<czajkowski> jacobw: yup so if you click subscribe on that
<czajkowski> you'll get an email notification of any items added to that during the cycle
<jacobw> Something like a copy on write scheme allowing packages to ship their own versions of files but deduplicating and updating identical files seems like a good idea if there's a strong enough use case for it outside of catering for expectations from other platforms
<bigcalm> Flashing hardware is so sloooooooooooooooooow
<neuro> popey: wtf?! :)
<neuro> popey: you really must have wound up gareth for him to refuse a free hard disk :)
<neuro> definitely one of the oddest ML threads i've seen in a long while
<neuro> and that includes ones about dolphins
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> neuro: saying a lot as you're omn uknot :)
<neuro> exactly
<neuro> what i did find interesting was after phill going on about community responsibility and people should offer to help and send stuff, gareth just point blank said "i don't want any stuff from anyone"
<neuro> at that point i gave up on the thread
<neuro> not much point in engaging further really, is there?
<neuro> it feels like the list equivalent of someone going on facebook and posting "*sigh*" and nothing else
<neuro> then everyone else piles on with "are you ok?" "do you need help?" "zomg" and then they reply with "no, i don't need help, i'm fine, honestly. *sigh*"
<mungbean> only women seem to do that
<mungbean> "some people need to sort out their life"
<mungbean> are you ok hun?
<jacobw> "Nobody understands me!"
<mungbean> men just go : GRRR i hate alex ferguson
<neuro> haha
<KrimZon> lol
<neuro> not sure if this afternoon is shaping up to be a Juno Reactor afternoon, or a Crystal Method afternoon
<czajkowski> mungbean: sweaping statements--
<neuro> DANGER, WOMAN ENGAGED, RAISE DEFENSIVE SHIELDING!
<jacobw> neuro: You have 13 minutes to decide
<MooDoo> some of my collegues went who's he ;)
<neuro> i want it to be a Crystal Method afternoon
<neuro> but i think it's going to be a Juno Reactor afternoon
<mungbean> czajkowski: its a hypothesis
<neuro> need choons that are loud, bouncy and fast
<czajkowski> neuro: leftfield!
<neuro> and i'm tempted just to play them through every bloomin system in the house and just raise the roof off
<neuro> tsk
<neuro> leftfield have like 2 bouncy tracks ever
<neuro> the rest are all just moody grumpy electronic equivalents of shoegazing
<czajkowski> neuro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUSUsiseIx0
<jacobw> Emotronic
<neuro> jacobw: perfect :)
<neuro> czajkowski: TUT TUT MISSUS!!!!
<neuro> who seriously listens to albums off youtube?!
<jacobw> >_>
<jacobw> I get lazy sometimes
<czajkowski> neuro: sometimes I do if I want a varietyelse I listen to radions tations that don't talk
<neuro> the audio quality is mince!
<neuro> anyway, i have leftism on cd somewhere
<neuro> which means it found its way into my labyrinthine itunes folder
<neuro> in ALAC, apparently
<neuro> ooh hang on a second
<neuro> don't know why this didn't occur to me sooner
<neuro> Master of Puppets
<neuro> \m/
<neuro> czajkowski: also, it's, you know, rather blatant copyright infringement :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: better quality version of your youtube link: http://open.spotify.com/album/4kY6z5DSnmAihvm3F1ePlK
<czajkowski> neuro: oh indeed. but my cd collection is in Ireland and  want bopping music as it's Friday :)
<mgdm> neuro: I hadn't heard Leftism in about 10 years until bagpuss had it on recently
<czajkowski> time to add it to jons spotify music listening :)
<neuro> mgdm: you hear bits from time to time when watching late 90s, early 2000s movies
<neuro> cf Hackers, Vanilla Sky, etc
<czajkowski> so handy to connect to the sonos via phone and have the music in the house blaring when outside at the bbq :)
<mgdm> neuro: aye
<neuro> but i don't think i've listened to the album all the way through for years
<mgdm> I did about 3 days ago
<neuro> right, chemical brothers have finished serenading the Hanna soundtrack to me
<neuro> time for some RAAWWWWWWWWWWK
<neuro> oh the acoustic guitar of Battery ... how you deceive us with your gentle quietness ...
<neuro> any second my neighbours are going to explode like the heads in Scanners
<neuro> YEAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
<neuro> i just noticed something
<JamesTait> neuro, I approve of your music choice, and will listen to the same.
<neuro>  37M	/Volumes/Storage Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music/Metallica/Master of Puppets/01 Battery.m4a
<neuro> that one track takes up about the same space as a whole album i might have ripped about 15 years ago ... ;)
<neuro> yes, I used to rip in 96Kbps MP3 *hangs head in shame*
<neuro> JamesTait: \m/
<JamesTait> neuro, \n/ <- Simpsons metal (borrowed from a colleague)
<mgdm> heh
<neuro> sorry if i'm waffling, i'm taking a break from munging analog reporting .bat files into bash and it's hurting my head
<neuro> JamesTait: like it :)
<neuro> ~/ I'M YOUR SOURCE OF SELF DEEEESTRUUUUUCTIONNNNN! /~
 * JamesTait is still on the Battery guitar solo.
<neuro> kirk hammett = solo god
<JamesTait> Air guitars at the ready.
<neuro> weedly weedly weedly weeeeeeee
<JamesTait> :D
<neuro> kirk and james did an awesome Star Spangled Banner at an SF Giants game last week
<JamesTait> I saw photos - the music didn't really come across.
<neuro> there's video, hang on
<neuro> http://ultimateclassicrock.com/metallica-national-anthem-san-francisco-giants/
<JamesTait> neuro, woo, thanks. :)
<neuro> i want to get one of the Giants batting practice replica shirts, but sadly they don't do them in sysadmin size :P
<neuro> JamesTait: watch the "Zito rocks out with Metallica" vid too, tis pretty cool
<jacobw> neuro: Sysadmin size?
<neuro> 4XL :D
<jacobw> :)
<neuro> they do batter and fielder game day shirts in 4XL, will probably end up getting one of those instead
<JamesTait> Looking old now, but still rocking out.
<neuro> totally
<neuro> did you hear any of the live tracks they recorded at the Fillmore for their 30th anniversary?
<neuro> absolutely epic stuff
<JamesTait> No. :(
<JamesTait> You're making me feel old and out of touch now. ;)
<neuro> hehe
<christel> you are old...
<christel> i mean, hi!
<neuro> nice, christel, nice :)
<neuro> JamesTait: http://www.livemetallica.com/live-music/0,398/Metallica-mp3-flac-download-12-5-2011-The-Fillmore-San-Francisco-CA.html
<JamesTait> Hi christel. Love you too. ;)
<neuro> click "Next >" above the album art on left to go to dec 7, 9 and 10
<neuro> dave mustaine came back
<christel> <3
<neuro> jason newsted came back
<neuro> and the other guests were just epic epic epic
<JamesTait> I have nothing against Trujello, but I'll always have a soft spot for Newsted.
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<Idunn> FUCK UBUNTU!
<neuro> nice
<bigcalm> Meh
<czajkowski> popey: ^
<Idunn> FUCK YOU BITCH
<neuro> i see we have some intelligent discourse, finally
<Idunn> POPEY NIGGER
<bigcalm> What's the point?
<neuro> dunno
<Idunn> I AM HERE TO DISS YALL UK NIGGER FAGGOTS
<czajkowski> bigcalm: best to not engage
<neuro> attention seeker?
<neuro> i never understand this tbh
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you about
<Idunn> ND SAY BIG FUCK YOU
<neuro> it's like running around in the street screaming I AM A MONG
<Idunn> TO ALL THE BRITISH BASTARDS
<Idunn> ON THIS FUCKING CHANNEL
<bigcalm> czajkowski: no intention of doing so. I just don't get the point. Oh well :)
<Idunn> PALE FACED MOTHERFUCKERS
<Idunn> FUCK U
<Idunn> FUCK U
<Idunn> FUCK U
<popey> delightful.
<neuro> here comes the rain
<czajkowski> Myrtti: thank you
<Myrtti> czajkowski: there is the ops call too
<neuro> hee
<popey> indeed, i was afk
<czajkowski> Myrtti: I thought there was but couldnt remember what it was
<bigcalm> Myrtti: is that like using the bat signal?
<popey> it shines an ubuntu logo in the sky
<neuro> bigcalm: it's more like having Batman in the channel
<Myrtti> unsurprisingly it's !ops
<Myrtti> which is funny because many other channel visitors think it's some kind of static thing that works in any channel
<neuro> Myrtti: there's another guy in here who's causing hassle, you should probably boot them too
<neuro> can't remember their name though ...
<christel> is it that neuro bloke again?
<Myrtti> neuro: you?
<bigcalm> Grrr. My SGS3 has recently started freezing on the lock screen and it takes a battery removal to fix it. Grumble
<neuro> yeah, him!
 * christel tickles Myrtti 
<neuro> he's an IDIOT!
<Myrtti> yeah, sorry about the slow response, I was eating the dinner I didn't have yesterday
<neuro> i'd say that was pretty nippy actually
 * neuro wonders where that IP was
<neuro> DN Advertising Network
<neuro> somewhere near zurich
<neuro> Glattbrugg
<czajkowski> I swear there is a full moon out today with all the crazies coming out of the woodwork
<neuro> arooooooooooo
<neuro> werewolves of networks
<neuro> arooooooooooooooooo
<dwatkins> yay for Half-Life 2 episodes being available for Steam on Linux
<bigcalm> dwatkins: catch up, that was 9am news :P
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I slept in ;)
<bigcalm> :O
<dwatkins> silly neighbor with the radio on until 1am
<dwatkins> or neighbour, perhaps
<dwatkins> anyhoo, I'll be calling environmental health if it continues :-/
<neuro> oof
<christel> cut off their power!
<christel> much more fun!
<popey> Golly, portal and hl2 actually work
 * popey ponders what to have for lunc
<czajkowski> I think 1am is the time tbh as I had an issue once and was told nothing could be done until after 1
<neuro> cake?
<czajkowski> which was when the noise did stop
<popey> I see what you did there
<czajkowski> popey: pancake!
<popey> Also going to be a strange weekend
<czajkowski> with some bacon or strawberries
<neuro> WTF NOO
<popey> Sophie is away at pgl for the weekend
<neuro> pancakes are SWEET, bacon is SAVOURY
<BigRedS> czajkowski: 11pm is definitely one of the times for nuisance noise
<neuro> my neighbours and i have an informal agreement
<neuro> if one of us is making too much noise late at night, we thump the hell out of the wall
<neuro> i have neighbours with drum kits, woodwork equipment, that do motorbike stuff, and listen to crap music
<bigcalm> popey: so you get to spend the weekend playing Portal and HL2
<neuro> one of them asked me if i play the drums after we had a particularly long LugRadio Enemy Territory session ;)
<neuro> all that shooting and banging!
<neuro> JamesTait: ORION \o/
<JamesTait> \m/
 * JamesTait <- still on Sanitarium.
<neuro> this and Damage, Inc. to go
<JamesTait> Leeave meee beee!
<neuro> not sure whether to go forwards to Justice or backwards to Lightning
<JamesTait> Justice was my gateway to Metallica.
<neuro> Sanitarium is one of my favourite 'tallica tracks of all time
<neuro> yeah me too
<neuro> went to see them live in 1990 in Glasgow
<JamesTait> I still can't bring myself to buy St Anger though.
<neuro> acht it's not bad
 * bigcalm thinks he should have some HL2 for lunch
<neuro> if you can get over the thought of Lars banging dustbin lids
<JamesTait> It still sounds unfinished to me.
<neuro> there have always been hiccups
<neuro> yeah i agree with that
<neuro> and Justice was underproduced so sounds rather tinny
<JamesTait> True.
<neuro> iirc there's a Japanese release that sounds ... fuller
<neuro> and a bootleg called Justice for Jason which has the bass brought back into the fore
<popey> bigcalm: maybe â»
<JamesTait> I saw them at Earl's Court in.... '96?
<JamesTait> Very theatrical.
<neuro> nothing theatrical about '90
<JamesTait> Ugh, merge conflicts make me sad.
<diplo> Hi guys, just confirm something for me pleaes
<diplo> please*
<diplo> If i telnet to port 25 on a box and it work from 2 external ips but not from one
<diplo> and I get connection refused from that one, that is more than liekly a firewall issue with someone blocking that IP ?
<JamesTait> diplo, sounds likely.
<JamesTait> diplo, or a routing issue.
<AlanBell> hmm, the mailing list appears to be a bit grumpy
<neuro> speaking of which, my BT broadband has died on its bum
<neuro> can't route outside BT's network :P
<Myrtti> AlanBell: no kidding
<ali1234> packard bell = farmyard smell
<popey> hah
<neuro> :)
<neuro> hmm wonder why my router hasn't failed over off BT yet
<neuro> oh, because the gateway is still up :P
 * JamesTait -> lunch, in a grumpy mood.
<MartijnVdS> grunch!
<czajkowski> neuro: oh the guy that ws spamming here is also now being mentioned on that other list
<czajkowski> most odd
<neuro> interesting
<czajkowski> indeed...
<neuro> Myrtti / christel: that idunn guy was hassling someone in a couple of fedora channels too
<diplo> AlanBell: yeah stopped reading it myself, got a bit bored after the first dozen mails.. deleted afterwards :/
<diplo> JamesTait: yeah, it's out customers email supplier... frustrating me.. in one of his emails he said if this was an outlook issue I could probably help
<diplo> ffs, if you can't run a mail server, don't do it.. :)
<MooDoo> neuro: we get him all the time in fedora-uk telling us someone has passed away...
<neuro> yup, that was exactly what i read about
<MooDoo> sigh
<MooDoo> the chaps who passed away always chimes up after saying i'm not dead yet.
<neuro> probably because he's been pinged :)
<Myrtti> I KNOW YOU GUYS!
<Myrtti> WE SHOULD START DISCUSSING WHY TOP POSTING IS WRONG!
<popey> hahaha
<MooDoo> oh don't start
<Myrtti> ahmazing idea!
<Myrtti> works EVERY TIME!
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: let's also discuss editor preferences
<Myrtti> yes.
<MooDoo> IT'S NOT WRONG.
<MooDoo> ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: top posting is so wrong :)
<neuro> Myrtti: i have been using some serious willpower not to say "TRIM YOUR POSTS!" :)
<MartijnVdS> TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
<czajkowski> neuro: +1 likewise!
<Myrtti> neuro: dooooeeet
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nah it's not, been doing it for years ;)
<Myrtti> dooooeeett
 * diplo unsubscribes :)
<MooDoo> back me up davmor2 ;)
<czajkowski> he's not here
 * popey notes MooDoo and czajkowski fell into Myrtti's trap
<popey> fools
<neuro> A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation.
<bigcalm> Bwuhahaha
<neuro> Q. Why is top posting bad?
<Myrtti> on the mailing lists, not here!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: RATS, YOU WIN ;)
<MooDoo> neuro: no one really cares it's not important in the grand scheme of things :p
<neuro> WE CARE!
<neuro> yay, kicking bt connection in the butt has fixed it
<neuro> and by "yay" i mean "grr"
<jacobw> I care
<mungbean> anyone tried remote desktop to a natted vmware VM running on your own machine?
<jacobw> Describe the NAT further
<mungbean> oh, it's simples
<mungbean> this page complicated matters
<mungbean> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1018809
<mungbean> i just rdesktop to the IP address of the VM since i have a vmnet adapter
<jacobw> I see
<mungbean> meh
<mungbean> vmware player is lame. cannot run the vm without the console being open
 * MooDoo uses esxi 3.5 it's old but it works
<mungbean> reads a page about vmrun
<mungbean> vmrun -T player start /path/to/vm/my.vmx nogui
<mungbean> sweet
<mungbean> my office are trying to roll out MS lync to an office full on linux users who already use irc heavily ..lol
<directhe`> why?
<jacobw> It's something to do
<jacobw> As in, "I'm necessary, I did this thing"
<mungbean> we have project managers who feel the need to justify their existence
<mungbean> "we know that vmware converter works well for your p2v but we are gonna spend 6 months discussing and piloting platespin"
<popey> I thought lync was dying along with messenger
<popey> thou shall use skype
<MartijnVdS> popey: except Lync is part of their corporate/enterprise suite
<popey> yeah, i know
<popey> we used it at last place
<MartijnVdS> popey: you get a Lync server "free" with Exchange
<popey> we all tried to stick with ms communicator
<popey> which worked okay when it wasn't mangling your comments into smileys
<MartijnVdS> all non-technical people at work like it a lot
<MartijnVdS> all technical people hate it a lot
<JamesTait> mungbean, sounds similar to the situation I had at $PREVIOUS_EMPLOYER
<mungbean> serious resentment here of clueless highly paid contractors
<mungbean> and indians/chiefs siutation
<mungbean> only about 5 techies do any of the work
<mungbean> and about 100+ ppl in IT
<JamesTait> Got called into a meeting-cum-conference-call-cum-brainstorming session with all the other team leaders to discuss the requirements of a new knowledge sharing platform.
<JamesTait> E-mail conversations had been going on for months.
<JamesTait> Spent several hours discussing wants/needs.
<JamesTait> All in the room settled on Trac, for its extensibility, integration, and zero cost.
<mungbean> i see where this is going
<JamesTait> Only to be told at the end of the meeting that the solution had already been decided upon, and it was...
<JamesTait> Anyone?
<mungbean> numpties wanted sharepoint
<JamesTait> Got it in one.
<mungbean> and they call it the sharepoint project
<mungbean> rather than document sharing erquirements gathering
<mungbean> fait accompli
<mungbean> the only people who want sharepoint are the PMs and people who've never used it
<JamesTait> "But it works out of the box" (as long as we develop a bunch of our own widgets and don't move from IE7)
<ali1234> there is no point arguing with that kid of stupidity
<ali1234> the only thing you can do is repay it in kind
<ali1234> by filing support requests every week "it doesn't work with my browser"
<ali1234> don't mention which browser of course
<mungbean> "don't fight stupid;make more awesome"
<mungbean> just leave and find a better job
<ali1234> the goal here is to inflate the bug report metric so that at the end of the yea you can say 2your stupid sharepoint server increased out workload by 200%"
<JamesTait> I didn't argue. I just didn't use it, except when I had absolutely no choice.  I stuck to using our Trac instance.
<mungbean> *may not be possible if you are busy spawning children and don't want extra stress
<ali1234> hahaha as if there is such a thing as "a better job"
<JamesTait> ali1234, there definitely is.
<ali1234> maybe for the lucky few
<JamesTait> I accept that.
<mungbean> i went to london devops meetup and everyone else* had better jobs
<JamesTait> mungbean, were they all Juju hackers? ;)
<BigRedS> mungbean: when was that? Let me know about the next one and I'll be the guy that doesn't
<mungbean> hmm, one in november and one in feb i think
<mungbean> they were people who seemed to work for startups and got to do what they pleased
<bashrc> I wonder if anyone can advise me on the messaging menu
<JamesTait> bashrc, I suggest you ask your question and if someone can help, they will. :)
<bashrc> I'm doing some development on an email-like application and trying to get it to appear in the messaging menu
<bashrc> So far I can set up an online account for jabber and see an empathy entry in the messaging menu
<bashrc> but when following the wiki python code for adding a messaging menu server item nothing appears
<jacobw> Are you trying to reinvent email?
<ali1234> the messaging api examples are usually quite out of date
<bashrc> yes, I am reinventing email
<ali1234> is it bit-message? i hope it's bit-message
<bashrc> yes
<JamesTait> bashrc, #ubuntu-desktop might be a better place to ask that kind of question.
<ali1234> sweet
<bashrc> ok
<ali1234> https://bitmessage.org
<bashrc> the application indicator part of it is working
<ali1234> are you extending the python reference implementation?
<bashrc> but I also want to show unread messages, etc, in accordance with the design guide
<Myrtti> I've never heard of #ubuntu-desktop
<Myrtti> or I don't remember hearing about it
<Myrtti> strange
<jacobw> Mailing list
<JamesTait> Myrtti, it's where I was directed when an update broke my desktop themes and indicators.
<JamesTait> Many moons ago now though.
<Myrtti> interesting.
<bashrc> currently I'm basing the code on this http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/
<bashrc> Even with a small test program with a valid .desktop file pointing to a valid application with a valid icon and with a show_window_function defined nothing appears on the messaging menu
<bigcalm> Now that HL2 has made its way to Linux Steam, I wonder if Minerva will be ported
<bashrc> Nothing but tumbleweeds on #ubuntu-desktop
<popey> yeah, -desktop is where the desktop team hang out funnily enough ã
<popey> bashrc: two things, 1) you didnt ask your question, 2) quite a few desktoppers are on holiday today
<bashrc> I see
<popey> might need to put a bit more detail there
<bigcalm> Zigbee is slooooooooooooow. Testing a patch that is 1463 bytes large. The device has been downloading it over the wireless mesh network for several hours now
<bigcalm> Just reached 1080 bytes. This is like pulling teeth
 * JamesTait -> school run
<mungbean> i have to set #setxkbmap -model evdev -layout gb
<mungbean> in profile to fix a freenx server problem, however this creates a Cannot open display "default display"
<mungbean> when login via ssh
<mungbean> there's a way to check which kind of session i'm in , but can't remember how
<dwatkins> mungbean: are you using ssh -X   ?
<mungbean> no dwatkins ,
<mungbean> i've disabled the message for now
<mungbean> and the keyboard bug in freenx hasn't returned (uses US keyboard)
<dwatkins> case closed; solution: message ignored ;)
<mungbean> i'll revisit after rebootr
<mungbean> carmaggeddon is free on android today only
<dwatkins> neat thanks
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I should get an 8-bitty or something similar for games on Android
<bigcalm> Is mod_pagespeed to be trusted yet? Last time I used it was a couple of years ago and it was flaky
<bashrc> Has anyone noticed how the new Software Centre icon in 13.04 looks like a suitcase with an anarchy symbol on it?
<bigcalm> Not a fan of the new icons
<directhe`> Azelphur, humble bundle now buyable in btc
<Azelphur> directhe`: I know, it's even more hilarious that bitcoin king pings now own the charts.
<Azelphur> king pins* :P
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> atleast the mailing list is clean(er) now
<popey> heh
 * popey tickles Ng 
<Ng> popey: hey hey
 * Ng fighting a very broken tmux in the middle of a weechat migration, hence all the quitting and joining :/
<popey> oof.. downloaded 23.6GB in steam today
<directhe`> popey, good job you have unlimited BW!
<popey> I do? â»
<popey> opened a game earlier, right clicked and a flash context menu appeared.. was icky
<directhex> popey, a few games are flash. Lume springs to mine
<directhex> mind
<tullymore> popey, 'heard an oldie podcast over the weekend .. QUESTION: Can games for linux run in Cde ? .. [ a peevish question, but it's been on my back for nearly a week ]
<ali1234> CDE?
<ali1234> "sole survivor" is flash and is in software centre
<ali1234> i think that is what it is called
<ali1234> so i wasn't gonna buy this humble bundle but since they accept bitcoins now i might have to
<tullymore> Aww Ali .. it's a programming language, heh ?
<ali1234> i thought CDE was a desktop environment
<tullymore>  the podcast confused tull slightly.
<tullymore> thanx-you.
<tullymore> yeah, Probly finished off around the time Toshiba started making USB3's , or summit like that. tty.
<Pendulum> I apologize on behalf of my country for the fact that somehow we are infecting the UK with Honey Boo-Boo
<czajkowski> honey who who ?
<czajkowski> Pendulum: oh dear gods
<mgdm> czajkowski: can you tell e what it is so I don't have to look?
<czajkowski> mgdm: don't look
<czajkowski> Pendulum: bad pen bad bad bad pen!
<bashrc> I'm making progress on the messaging menu
<bashrc> think I'm grokking it
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I was apologizing for it. Shouldn't that have been warning enough?
<Pendulum> mgdm: I only found out off the Guardian's website so you may want to avoid it at the moment ;)
<czajkowski> Pendulum: never seen this before
<czajkowski> cant stop watching
<czajkowski> the stuff she comes out with
<czajkowski> the stuff the mother comes out with
<czajkowski> dear gods
<popey> "mother"
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I've never actually watched it. I've seen adverts, but not the show. It frightens me.
<czajkowski> Pendulum: I'm on youtube atm
<czajkowski> this was bad
<christel> ahahaha
<christel> honey booboo is bloody terrifying
<christel> mgdm: it is a tv show, spin-off from toddlers in tiaras or something
<christel> about this very scary toddler and her even scarier mother and the beauty pageants(sp?) she attends
<christel> and her tantrums... and her weirdness
<mgdm> oh god
<christel> and her special energy drinks that make redbull seem like milk
<mgdm> train wreck TV, I guess
<christel> she might not be a toddler anymore mind as its been around for a few years
<Pendulum> mgdm: they are sell proclaimed either rednecks or white trash. I can't remember anymore. They say they aren't one of them because they all have their teeth
<christel> basically it comes across as a bit point and laugh
<mgdm> heheheh
<christel> (in short, the entire family is fat and poor (or maybe not so poor following tv "fame") and it is sort of plugged as being about people "deviating from the normal idea of beauty")
<christel> i find it a bit sad seeing how it is sort of centred around a small child
<christel> "small"
<christel> i sat through a whole episode once, it was quite scary :)
<Pendulum> christel: why?
<christel> why did i sit through one? i think i was too tired to move to get the remote
<Pendulum> wow. you must really have been exhausted
<christel> mind, i once sat through two episodes of jeremy kyle through complete and utter fascination
<mgdm> Sadly I work for a company that broadcasts that, so I see more than the odd fragment
<mgdm> the show titles are just bizarre
<AlanBell> oh gosh that is grim
<Pendulum> I'm not sure if "deviating from normal idea of beauty" is exactly right for how it's billed here. It's really just billed as these people are ridiculous watch them make fools of themselves for money
<Pendulum> Because apparently a tv show about 3 & 4 year olds in beauty pageants isn't messed up enough so they had to pick one of the families from that who had even less shame than the others, I guess
<Pendulum> on the other hand, they're getting paid good money so more power to them for having found a production team that are suckers ;)
<christel> mgdm: haha i can imagine
<DJones> Pendulum: You've just described most if ITV & BBC's scheduling there "these people are ridiculous watch them make fools of themselves for money"...... X-Factor, Dancing on Ice, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here, The apprentice, The voice etc
<Pendulum> DJones: this is actually worse.
<AlanBell> Breaking Amish is kinda interesting
<AlanBell> on the same channel
<DJones> I looked at a clip, there's not much to say about it
<Pendulum> AlanBell: have you read some of the background on that, though? While "reality" tv is staged as it is, Breaking Amish has some stuff where producers have pretty much lied to the viewers
<Pendulum> namely that they set up that the people didn't know each other and that they'd never left the Amish communities before
<AlanBell> yeah, I figured a lot of that was a bit contrived
<Pendulum> most if not all had already moved out and moved back in a different points and 2 of them were from the same community (and may have been romatically involved before the show; I think it's the 2 who actually coupled up on the show)
<DJones> My wife loves watching Extreme Makeover Home Edition, but it just drives me mad, I have to go out of the room
<christel> DJones: oh i am always impressed that they manage to build a house in like 40 minutes (because in my mind it happens that fast!) :P
<Pendulum> they actually built a house in my town (for a family my brother and I had gone to school with)
<Pendulum> I've never actually watched Breaking Amish, but my brainless, embarrassing tv addiction are a couple shows that involve wedding dress shoping that also are on TLC so I saw the adverts and went and looked up the background for Breaking Amish.
<Pendulum> Also, TLC is owned by Discovery which means those adverts show up when I'm watching things like Mythbusters
<DJones> It always seems 'tacky' from the bits I've seen, plus the reports of the producers advertising for the most ill/desperate/disabled families to feature doesn't sit comfortably for me
<Pendulum> I can't stand Extreme Makeover Home Edition
<Pendulum> it really is all about being a pitying other people thing
<DJones> Very much so
<christel> is that the one with that guy ... who is even more annoying than nick knowles?
<DJones> Yep
<christel> ty pennington yeah?
<Pendulum> yes
<christel> i must admit i sometimes will swap to it at the very end because i like looking at furniture and stuff
<Pendulum> Also, I'd be really curious to find out what happens down the road when it comes to things like taxes
<christel> (so i quite like the "after the unveil" bit)
<Pendulum> because some of the families really aren't going to have the money for taxes in the new all fancied up houses that probably bump property value
<redtape|renegade> OT | Can't get enough of Squarepants, today. :: http://youtu.be/7h91k4krgRc?t=1m28s :::
<DJones> I always wondered how the neighbours feel afterwards with the family getting state of the art & new houses that seem 10 times the size of everybody elses
<christel> how does it actually work -- i presume the house and contents are all gifted to you?
<Pendulum> no idea
<Pendulum> I don't know about everywhere, but in my town the house doesn't stick out because they designed it in a way that it wouldn't. And I don't know if it was my town or ABC pushing the town where there was loads of "come out and support" sort of thing.
<Pendulum> I think that may be part of pity thing, though
<Pendulum> like, you play up all the disadvantages that a family has and then anyone who isn't happy with it is going to be shamed into not speaking up
<Pendulum> plus they do a lot of trying to get the community to come out and volunteer
<mungbean> ooof why did i click the link about spare skin the worlds fattest man has now hes lost weight..
<christel> *nod*
<DJones> mungbean: I saw that as well, I wanted brain & eye bleach
<christel> is he still the worlds fattest man?
<mungbean> didnt hang around to find out, think hes thin now tho
<mungbean> why am i watching bbc3?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: alcohol?
<popey> evening
 * popey watches HIGNFY
<mungbean> teenager acts like eejit on holiday, parents secretly watch :s
 * neuro will watch hignfy when certain automated systems obtain it ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I saw one where they decided if the kid got a car or not based on his driving
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I guess this is similar?
<neuro> in the mean time, sim city \o/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: on steam? for linux?
<neuro> err, no, on origin, for win8
<MartijnVdS> bah
<neuro> no other way to get it
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I have Simcity 4 in Steam on Windows
<neuro> so do i
<neuro> and i have the original DVD somewhere too from years ago
<MartijnVdS> I have Simcity 1 on CD-ROM ("Maxis Special Edition" or something)
<neuro> the new sim city will be out on mac next month, so i can stop playing it on my win8 dell, or in a parallels win7 VM
<neuro> i admit to being very surprised by the performance within a VM
<MartijnVdS> positively?
<neuro> yeah
<mungbean> my wife and i had a week off between xmas/new year once and played simcity and sims2 for  a week
<neuro> a few stutters here and there, but with the quality set to a sort of middling-highish sort of level, it was very usable
<mungbean> felt guilty after
<neuro> mungbean: when this new one came out and after the servers settled down, i had a 14 hour solid session
<neuro> i only stepped away during that time for, you know, biological reasons
<mungbean> we had only been married 2 months
<neuro> haha
<mungbean> part of doing your own thing i guess. we didnt live together b4
<popey> love this poet chap on HIGNFY
<mungbean> its a dream now i have kids to have no responsibilities 4 the week
<popey> heh
<popey> I might take Sam (6) along to my local LUG meeting tomorrow
<popey> he'll likely just play minecraft
<MartijnVdS> popey: does he use vim or Emacs?
<MartijnVdS> popey: bash or zsh?
<mungbean> get him some airfix \o/
<MartijnVdS> kde or gnome?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<neuro> HE'LL USE WHAT HE'S BLOOMIN' WELL TOLD TO USE! :)
<popey> at the last lug meet he had wifeys macbook pro running osx
<neuro> \o/
<popey> he used to use linux, now mostly uses osx
<popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IR8BCTc4Uok/UWljZ-7uc6I/AAAAAAAAWyk/WQnwGbFyHCQ/w411-h548-no/1365860900277.jpg
<neuro> ahhh simcity earthquake!! :(
<mgdm> I very nearly bought some Airfix yesterday
<mgdm> couldn't decide what to get, though :)
<popey> he doesnt have the patience
<popey> neither do i
<mungbean> mgdm: what sort of thing u like? planes?
<mgdm> mungbean: yeah - did a bunch of them when I was quite a bit younger, and a couple of boats
<mgdm> sadly when I went to Uni, they all got destroyed or thrown out
<mungbean> in terms of simple kits to get back into it, the airfix spitfire mk1a and p51d mustang are amazing kits
<mgdm> I did both :-D
<mungbean> these are new releases
<brobostigon> that was a definate hilerous HIGNFY. :)
<neuro> shhhh
<brobostigon> hilerious*
<neuro> say no more :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: have you tried Kerbal Space Program?
<mungbean> any newly re-done kit since 2010 is amazing quality
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> wifey thinks sam would love to model
<mgdm> Ah! I did a Spitfire as my first kit, then the Mustang quite a bit later
<popey> MartijnVdS: not yet
<neuro> and it's "hilarious" ;)
<brobostigon> neuro: keep an eye on the blond hair, :)
<neuro> stfu
<neuro> please
<brobostigon> ok, sorry.
<neuro> np :)
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> sam isnt really into 2nd world war planes tho
<mungbean> theres the afghanistan stuff
 * popey googles
<neuro> i wasn't either when i was a kid
<popey> or rather amazons
<popey> me either
<neuro> i was a jet fighter kid for years and years
<brobostigon> ELO on the ML :)
<popey> but then my dad wasnt around
<mungbean> http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/operation-herrick-afghanistan/
<popey> so i didnt get the parental guidance to make models
<neuro> aww
<neuro> i think my dad got more into them than i did ;)
<popey> ah, now, jeeps might go down well
<neuro> i just wanted to play rather than have to build stuff
<popey> with army men or sommat
<mgdm> I did it myself, by dad is not the practical type
<mungbean> my bro was 4 yrs older
<mgdm> I was very tempted by the Saturn V kit now that I'm a bit older :-)
<popey> oooh!
<neuro> ohhhhh
<popey> they do rockets?
<mgdm> Oh yes
<neuro> </churchill>
<mgdm> they have a 4-ft high Saturn
<popey> now that he might like
<neuro> what the ...
<neuro> 4 foot?!
<mgdm> (and a smalle rone too, I think)
<popey> now.. ISS...
<mungbean> http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/space/
<MartijnVdS> Kerbal Space Program ;)
<mungbean> rockets seem boring to me
<neuro> ohh shuttle kit
<mgdm> sorry, not 4ft - about 2.5
<neuro> seriously?
<neuro> they're fire breathing awesome monsters
<neuro> what's not to like?
<mgdm> http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/space/a11170-apollo-saturn-v-a11170/
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Revell-Scale-International-Space-Station/dp/B0000BX89P
<mgdm> it was in Hobbycraft the other week
<neuro> fort?
<mungbean> i see modelling as a grown ups hobby that kids can do in their own way too
<mgdm> neuro: aye
<mgdm> neuro: up the stairs at the back they have masses of 'em
<neuro> i've never been there in my puff
<neuro> the fort, i mean
<popey> do you display them ?
<popey> i know some people hang them by threads from the celing
<mgdm> and all the paint etc. I never had an airbrish when I was wee, I might now though :-)
<mgdm> popey: mine were on the shelves in my room as I built them with the landing gear down
<mungbean> not essential tho
<mgdm> no, but the silver finish on the Mustang suffered for not having one
<neuro> well yeah
<neuro> ooh, the S-V is properly staged!
<neuro> and has a dinky wee LM and CM
<mgdm> Yep :D
<mgdm> hence my temptation
<neuro> and i presume the ET is there to show it's seperable as well
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/1LufwbTKPUaWjSExwUXku4
<mungbean> typhoon i made
<mgdm> nice work
<neuro> *nice*
<mgdm> I would quite like a model of a Hawker Hunter
<mgdm> for no reason other than they look quite cool
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/5Io36t26RTZq8yy6fuOxx6
<popey> http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/space/a50106m-one-small-step-for-man-a50106m/
<mungbean> this one is teeny
<popey> i like the look of that
<mgdm> mungbean: very nice
<mungbean> amazon etc are quite a lot under rrp
<mungbean> thx mgdm
<mungbean> im not even that good,
<mungbean> just a bit of patience and relaxation
<mgdm> Heh, RFC4824
<mgdm> yeah
<mungbean> im aiming to do a lancaster soon
<mgdm> I did a wellington, but I wasn't very good at it
<mungbean> when u were 8?
<mgdm> I was a bit older than that
<neuro> I did an SR-71
<neuro> it was boss
<neuro> although technically it was an M-21, because it had the D-21 drone as well
<mgdm> I read a couple of books recently about the OXCART program
<neuro> the whole thing is nuts
<mgdm> weird that they made the A-21 and then binned them not long after
<mungbean> whats that?
<neuro> A-12
<mgdm> err, yes, typo
<neuro> mungbean: basically the programme that led to the SR-71 Blackbird
<neuro> check it on wikipedia, you'll be there for Houuuuuuuuuuurs
<mgdm> I also read some stuff about the Vulcan, the Concorde, and some other bits
<neuro> loads of cute tales, like they needed titanium
<neuro> and they were running low
<neuro> (the US, that is)
<mungbean> vulcan prog on recently waqs interesting, longest bomb run ever
<neuro> so they approached the USSR to buy some, not telling them what it was for, obviously :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: hah, sneaky
<neuro> "o hai, we needs titanium!"
<neuro> "what is it for?"
<mgdm> I thought they went via a middleman (well, middlecountry)
<neuro> "certainly not a high speed, high altitude reconnaissance plane to fly over your territory, not at all!"
<mungbean> ehat i also love about modelling is the history u learn too
<mgdm> when I was in Hobbycraft I did buy a big slab of synthetic clay stuff
<neuro> see, i just loved the history on its own :)
<mgdm> I have no idea what I will build with that
<DJones> WHAT.....thunderbird is 76.0GB in size
<mgdm> (aside from a penguin)
<popey> DJones: your .thunderbird folder?
<DJones> popey: Yep
<neuro> mgdm: money shot: http://www.immaculateflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/sr71-Waiting.jpg
<popey> compact all folders
<popey> mine went from 30GB to 2.5GB
<mgdm> neuro: great pic :-)
<DJones> Giving it a go
<mgdm> neuro: I am going to try and go to an airshow this year in an attempt to see XH558 fly before it goes away forever
<DJones> I'd been wondering where all my disk space was going, sat down with disk usage analyser going to see what was causing it
<mungbean> theres another lanc flypast soon
<neuro> me and my dad have VIP tix for leuchars, courtesy of my mum getting them for us for my dad's 60th
<mgdm> jammy bar steward
<neuro> yarp
<neuro> might try and get myself a decent camera by then
<mungbean> http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/displayinfo/
<mungbean> wow those guys are busy
<mgdm> I had a tour round the BBMF hanger in the mid nineties
<mgdm> <-- ex-ATC
<redtape|renegade> random. [i know]
<neuro> um, ok
<neuro> mgdm: this is a neat article
<mgdm> neuro: got a link?
<neuro> "I pulled the throttles to idle just south of Sicily, but we still overran the refueling tanker awaiting us over Gibraltar"
<DJones> popey: That reduced it from 75Gb to 42Gb, still seems somewhat high
<neuro> http://gizmodo.com/5511236/the-thrill-of-flying-the-sr+71-blackbird
<mgdm> neuro: hehe, I've seen that line before
<mgdm> neuro: I liked another article where I read that the faster they went, the less fuel they used
<mgdm> 'physics lol'
<neuro> yeah, that was nuts
<neuro> she was a leaky bism, JP2 going all over the place
<neuro> until she got up to speed and altitude
<neuro> then all the seals just settled into place
<mgdm> neuro: "As inconceivable as it may sound, I once discarded the plane. Literally." - figured he meant he ejected
<mgdm> I've read other folk talking about ejecting as 'throwing away the plane'
<neuro> lol yeah
<neuro> mgdm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sled-Driver-Flying-Worlds-Fastest/dp/0929823087
<neuro> YIKES
<neuro> New from --
<neuro> Used from Â£193.71
<mgdm> blimey
<mungbean> oh noes i am enjoying a prank show on bbc3
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: time to call 111 ;)
<Azelphur> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/155392-international-space-station-switches-from-windows-to-linux-for-improved-reliability
<Azelphur> woot woot
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Also, ammonia leak
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (I've seen people comment "Hmm, ISS switches to from Windows to Linux in the week Kerbal Space Program is released for Linux? Must be a coincidence")
<Azelphur> haha
<mungbean> carmageddon over 100mb..why so big
<neuro> probably some fmv
<mungbean> android
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: because of the tracking software
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bwuurm0td9audxf/HZ2poq8SuP got the keys to my new flat today, I think I nailed the selection :P
<neuro> see, this is why i think this whole "we must defeat windows, linux must be on every desktop, etc etc" idea is flawed
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they need to know where you are
<neuro> i don't think that should be the goal, i don't believe it's achievable
<neuro> but
<Azelphur> bitcoin money gets you nice things \m/
<neuro> doing awesome stuff like ISS powered by Linux
<neuro> LHC powered by Linux
<neuro> those things are exceptionally amazing, and should be encouraged
<neuro> all IMHO of course
<mungbean> which distro on iss?
<mgdm> Debian 6
<neuro> Debian 6, RHEL, Scientific
<Azelphur> neuro: there's no reason all avenues can't be pushed with Linux, that's the point, from the ordinary to the extraordinary, Linux is there with all the capability to get you where you need to go :)
<mungbean> cool
<mungbean> nice solid choices
<directhex> the ISS isn't powered by linux. the laptops in the ISS being used for experiments and internetting and stuff will be powered by linux
<mungbean> thinkpads?
<mgdm> I've been doing a lot with VMs of late, so most of my Linux boxes are virtual, and I consider them mostly disposable
<mgdm> as I think I might have mentioned
<mgdm> automation FTW
<neuro> directhex: the science on board is essentially "powered" by Linux
<directhex> the science on board is powered by spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace
<neuro> i'minspace
<neuro> mgdm: hehe, ISS has at least one Cisco VoIP phone onboard
<neuro> they can make any unofficial comms using it
<mgdm> neuro: hah. Will the 'CTU' ringtone, i hope
<neuro> but the caller ID is JSC
<neuro> so you'd think it was JSC, but then someone says "o hai i'm in space"
<mgdm> we have Cisco phones at work, but sadly they don't have that ringtone
<neuro> it's a ringtone from ancient cisco firmware iirc
<mgdm> these are ancient phones
<neuro> even more ancient than those then :)
<mgdm> heh
<redtape|renegade> OT | redtape|renegade raises the periscope for #Caturday :::: http://bit.ly/desktopperiscope
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-11
<brianb>  
<popey> morning
<dwatkins> allo allo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> o/
<dwatkins> yo sup and other colloqualisms
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> F1 (Practice 3) in 5
<bigcalm> So. My microserver already has a RAID1 on 2 500GB drives. I've just received 2 2TB drives that I need to add in. Can I set up a 2nd RAID1 or is that silly?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: neat, what kind of case are you using for the machine?
<bigcalm> dwatkins: HP microserver
<bigcalm> I think mine is the 40L. It's been a while so I can't remember
<jacobw> bigcalm: You can just make a new unit of the 2 new disks in RAID1
<bigcalm> jacobw: aha, thank you. How? ;)
<bigcalm> Humm, possibly http://askubuntu.com/questions/223194/setup-of-two-additional-ssd-drives-in-raid-1 ?
<jacobw> bigcalm: Are you using software RAID or a physical controller?
<bigcalm> jacobw: software raid
<bigcalm> jacobw: I followed a tutorial for setting up 12.04 on a fresh machine and using RAID1. But that was some time ago :)
<bigcalm> It's using madam
<bigcalm> mdadm even
<DJones> popey: After last nights 75Gb .thunderbird folder, compacting twice and deleting sent items/trash that was no longer needed, the size has dropped to 540Mb
<bigcalm> DJones: I stopped subscribing to folders that are no longer relevant. That and compacting makes a big difference. I couldn't bring myself to delete any email
<bigcalm> Esp not Sent
<popey> DJones: haha!
<jacobw> That answer has everything you need to know, use mdadm to create a device at /dev/mdX then create a filesystem and start using it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> jacobw: I thought it looked right. Thanks for the clarification :)
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<DJones> bigcalm: Most of the sent I deleted were emails between me & my dad, forwarding pictures etc that I've got saved, onlydeleted the junk stuff I know I won't want again
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<jacobw> Hey brobostigon
 * bigcalm sets up the additional drives as an excuse to not play the Ravenholm stage in HL2 for a while
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<bigcalm> Shutting down :(
<redtape|renegade> Morning .. Time  to get up John-boy ! http://open.spotify.com/track/6p2XXeslyqOvCgiv2SK90E
<kvarley> Windows 8's partition layout is horrendous
<kvarley> How on earth can I make this into a dual boot? http://en.zimagez.com/full/75b8ef8673322929329a618ec91320d4827c219dfe1bb46c6924c0fb25bf0a9d45207eef74a4ebe8d55c80c62eb194fe4bf57df90cac784f.php
<ocean22> hi guys. I have  a simple question for you. If I remove the programme A with purge command, would the programme B would be affected who shares dependency with programme A. can be a silly question. thanks in advance
<bigcalm> \o/ /dev/md3        1.8T  196M  1.7T   1% /media/RAID1_3
<bigcalm> Putting it on md3 was a mistake, but one I can live with
<mungbean> thinking might get couple of these to make at my desk http://www.strapya-world.com/categories/2331_3177_8143.html
<redtape|renegade> mungbean: Weren't you after another ISP a week last Cinqo-de-May ?? Found this ::: | Not quite an ISP , but has built-in filtering-package :::::: http://bit.ly/ZVShEd .. Pr.bly not yourself . but good for the cornish crew, so thought I'd 'divvy up'  ::
<popey> hmm, I don't see you on latitude
<popey> ^ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: hmm.. let me check
<MartijnVdS> popey: re-sent the thingy
<MartijnVdS> popey: I can't see you either
<DJones> Ouch, I feel sorry for this guy https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJ-0CFRCQAApFTY.jpg:large
<mungbean> redtape|renegade: not me, i'm afraid
<mungbean> ouch
<bashrc> To display notifications should I be using pynotify in 13.04?
<redtape|renegade> mungbean, Np.
<daubers> Afternoon
<bigcalm> DJones: that's very disturbing
<DJones> bigcalm: I bet it was for the squirrel
<penguin42> this uSDHC card claims to be 'temperature proof'
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so.. it works if it's not 0K?
<brobostigon> lets try absolute zero, :)
<penguin42> or a blow torch
<penguin42> It also claims to be water, magnet and X-ray proof
<penguin42> oddly the symbol for x-ray proof seems to be a set of teeth
<brobostigon> lets stick in the LHC :D
<MartijnVdS> "But is it Higgs-proof?
<MartijnVdS> "
<brobostigon> hehe :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, it doesn't weigh much
 * penguin42 thinks the only explanation is that they store the data on cockroaches
<penguin42> the packaging is also pretty much open-proof
<brobostigon> wooops.
<MartijnVdS> again, try the blowtorch ;)
<mungbean> hammer & duct tape
<MartijnVdS> https://github.com/search?p=1&q=extension%3Aphp+mysql_query+%24_GET&ref=searchresults&type=Code
<MartijnVdS> Crying time :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh my :(
 * redtape|renegade goes for a 'pukka' | 'cleanse' peppermint tea, :: entranced by the competition http://bit.ly/19bLRBA
<brobostigon> film4, ST4, voyage home, now. :)
<kvarley> Urgh, can't get ubuntu live usb to work on my dell laptop which shipped with windows 8 o nit
<kvarley> It goes to the grub menu but won't do anything after that
<brobostigon> is it uefi etc? and is it compatible ubuntu?
<kvarley> It is UEFI
<kvarley> And since when as it being "compatible" with Ubuntu matter
<kvarley> *mattered
<brobostigon> kvarley: directhex seems to know alot about it.
<kvarley> Linux works on everything lol
<penguin42> kvarley: Well, if it's at the grub menu that's pretty positive
<penguin42> kvarley: are you saying at that point no keyboard etc is working?
<brobostigon> i do believe you need a special grub version for uefi.
<penguin42> brobostigon: If it's managed to load the grub menu I'd say it's most of the way there and I think you're past that
<penguin42> maybe wrong however
<kvarley> penguin42: I mean the grub menu of the usb installer, pictured on this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<brobostigon> penguin42: possibly. good question.
<penguin42> kvarley: OK, and can you move the arrows on there?
<kvarley> penguin42: yeah that's all fine. when I hit enter a get a black screen and nothing happens
<kvarley> If it tap the power button it turns off straight away which suggests the kernel hasn't loaded
<penguin42> kvarley: Hmm ok, then it could be worse....
<penguin42> kvarley: is there a recovery/fallback/safe option on that menu?
<kvarley> peguin42: No. Try Ubuntu without installing, Install Ubuntu, OEM install (for manufacturers), Check disc for defects
<penguin42> kvarley: I'd try using the grub edit option to try and remove the quiet, splash and handoff options
<kvarley> penguin42: Nothing, the kernel doesn't load
<penguin42> hmm that's a shame
<kvarley> penguin42: Going to try from disc instead of usb 3
<penguin42> please bug report it
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon, Sounds bassically good .. just didn't get that memo ... https://mailing.channel4.com/public/read_message.jsp;jsessionid=0;apw71?sigreq=-1183483074
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: ummm ?
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon, Ahem | I wasn't listed, cough.
<redtape|renegade> **it wasn't listed ...
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: what wasnt listed? you have still lost me.
<redtape|renegade> Did you click my link above ?
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: i dont have a browser open atm, it would be quicker for you to tell me, as i am on my eeepc.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon, The email subscription that I got, did not list the program .. [cough].
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: ah, didnt list star trek on film4?
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon, Right.
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: i have ch4's film4 listing on my twitter.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon, I would, but I'd only get non-plussed.
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: ok.
 * redtape|renegade stretches for gpodder again ...  :::https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/FLOSS%20Weekly%20278_%20Tapper.mp3 :::
<redtape|renegade> or even here : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/FLOSS%20Weekly%20278_%20Tapper.mp3 ::: [ if yur using VLC .. set the cacheing to 15000ms ]
<redtape|renegade> bobnet brobostigon STOPSPLIT
<penguin42> bouncey bouncey bouncey
<Myrtti> yeah sorry about that
<redtape|renegade> Myrtti, Pro.bly from Chicagae.
<penguin42> Myrtti: Tripped over the cable?
<Myrtti> someone got bored and started playing jumprope
 * penguin42 had to look that up
<mungbean> i set ignore on parts & quits etc so never see splits
<penguin42> that's the 1st bounce I saw today, someone else was saying they'd seen wolfe bouncing a bit today
<redtape|renegade> OT | Someone mention jump-rope ? http://bit.ly/11t7b83 (use the right mp3 playr guys Plz)
<SuperEngineer> boiiinngggg
 * DJones welcomes zebede
<DJones> He says remembering the original broadcasts of Magic Roundabout
<popey> boo
<brobostigon> RAWR
<DJones> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh
 * redtape|renegade 'wheezes ::  http://open.spotify.com/album/5HPc503HoxRMgu8CdcjLY8  ::
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<SuperEngineer> 1st day off after 12 days continuous work & what happens? Ice falls from the sky!  hurumph!
<popey> once again I say something and redtape|renegade leaves right after
<popey> but is still online and in other channels
<popey> getting pretty childish
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - was on my ignore list a while back
<Laney> not worth bothering about imo
<penguin42> anyone good with dovecot errors? dovecot: imap-login: Warning: SSL alert: where=0x4004, ret=558: fatal certificate unknown          which end didn't like the cert?
<penguin42> that's using a self-signed on the dovecot server made using the mkcert script that comes with dovecot and thunderbolt as the client
<brobostigon> yay, dr who, :)
<BigRedS> penguin42: turn on the debug!
<BigRedS> I don't recall seeing that before, but Dovecot's rather terse with SSL errors
<penguin42> BigRedS: I seem to have got it to work after an hour of fiddling by regenerating the cert and shouting at it a lot; I'm not which one was more important
<BigRedS> probably the latter
<mungbean> yeah
<BigRedS> maybe I just got a couple of bad ones, this was a few years ago
<mungbean> tries to be all things to all people
<mungbean> very much focussing on "the web" and social media
<mungbean> and like a tomorrows world for twitter people
<BigRedS> haha, I guess that part of the problem is that I don't find consumer tech all that interesting, really
<mungbean> i think my wife benefits more as they frequently cover things that i talk about and already know about
<mungbean> in a MOR kind of way
<BigRedS> yeah, i think it just felt like the equivalent of reading the headlines on slashdot really slowly :)
<mungbean> its a bit like the apple fans on my fb feed who describe themselves as geeks
<BigRedS> but not the actual articles
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. I've started spotting those when my apple rant gets as far as the absence of a procfs...
<BigRedS> 'cause at a past job I figured I'd just bring over all my scripts for monitoring and automating and stuff, and all of them failed as soon as they tried to get data by reading from a file under /proc
<mungbean> my model is staring at me waiting to get built
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/1HeTlg3n5g8Fy0uelZQ0IY
<ball> BigRedS: Can procfs bet added to Darwin? I know it's available on other BSDs.
<BigRedS> ball: I've no idea, I didn't check 'cause my boss soon managed to argue that things running OSX weren't the responsibilty of IT...
 * ball nods
<ball> Sounds reasonable.
<BigRedS> I was dumfounded, but pleased
<BigRedS> We were about 5-8% OSX at the time, and they all suddenly became the direct responsibility of their users
<BigRedS> which, admittedly, made their users happier since they knew better what they were doing than an of us did :)
<redtape|renegade> Myrtti, Your still using irssi, just not the same ports (v.helpful).
<Myrtti> redtape|renegade: you're not making sense
<Myrtti> redtape|renegade: I'm using irssi. what do you mean with "just not the same ports"
<redtape|renegade> forget about it, I'm bored with the whole thing.
<Myrtti> uhkey
<Myrtti> but anyway, why should I move to using weechat? I've got it installed but I've not had time to have a proper look. most of the scripts I use though probably aren't ported to weechat so I'm not sure it would be worth it
<popey> didrocks sings the praises of weechat
<popey> not quite figured out what it has that irssi doesn't
<mungbean> irssi+plugins
<ali1234> what do you use scripts for on irc?
<ali1234> i never saw the point of it personally
<mungbean> userlist,colours,
<ali1234> userlist?
<dwatkins_> I use colours in irssi, it makes it much easier to distinguish between people.
<ali1234> pidgin has colours built in
<mungbean> shows users in window on rhs
<penguin42> ali1234: You're a very pleasent shade of geen
<BigRedS> does that require a script? As far as I can recall, all I've ever done to customise irssi is download a theme
<dwatkins> I also use tmux, though, so don't pay any attention to me ;)
<ali1234> meh, pidgin also shows user on rhs by default
<ali1234> so basically you use scripts to make up for the fact your client sucks?
<mungbean> i run irssi in screen on another server ali1234
<BigRedS> though I don't have different colours for each person, but I'm (now decreasingly) sure I used to
<popey> trolololol
<mungbean> i used to run pidgin tho
<ali1234> trololol indeed
<BigRedS> ali1234: that's, basically, why anything is extensible isn't it?
<mungbean> kopete can run in client/server mode tho
<mungbean> i'm on some channels that i need to read every message
<mungbean> hence running in screen
<mungbean> pidgin doesnt allow this without a bouncer
<popey> i tried xchat for a few months, went back to irssi
<mungbean> i quite like most irc clients
<mungbean> except irssi cos when my screen session ends i have to remember how to connect as i never bothered adding the scripts to my . file
<popey> i use byobu
<popey> which autostarts when i ssh in
<BigRedS> I just don't end my screen sessions
<BigRedS> I think I've had to start irssi about four times in the past couple of years
<mungbean> it crashes on ircnet about once a month
<Myrtti> autoconnecting to networks doesn't require any scripts tho
<BigRedS> haha. Windows just shut itself down through overheating, started installing updates, then abruptly halted and now blue screens on boot
<BigRedS> I really need to buy a games console
<popey> hah
<redtape|renegade> Aww .. you were good while you lasted, my leet notebook.  :: http://bit.ly/ZX9qgO
<BigRedS> surely you can just upgrade it?
<popey> or if 12.04 is too much for it, switch to lubuntu or xubuntu
<popey> although my friend tony upgraded his netbook to 13.04 and said it was noticably faster (for unity)
<mungbean> http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/05/07/the-it-crowd-finale-chris-odowd/
<mungbean> lol @gnome devs https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698544
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 698544 in Profiles "Background configuration is missing in terminal profile editor" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<popey> yeah, saw that tweeted earlier
<popey> facepalm
<popey> made me cringe and lol at the same time
<BigRedS> It's sort of like watching our politicians. It'd be hilarious if it didn't affect me...
<BigRedS> Should be in a comedy work of fiction, this isn't the sort of thing that's supposed to happen in real life
<mungbean> also weird advert on telly from ms :main USP:do not track option on ie
 * penguin42 admits that he thinks transparent terminals are the spawn of the devil; but I'd want to allow people to have them
<BigRedS> I love transparent terminals. Can have the telly on in the background while I'm working :)
<BigRedS> took me a long time to come round to that idea, though. I was really opposed to them until I spotted that that was possible
<popey> heh
<directhex> it wasn't possible until they were AIGLX-powered
<directhex> originally they just took a screenshot of your X root window, and displayed a correctly selected section of it as your terminal background
<directhex> you'd especially notice when dragging the window about
<Dave2> Ahh, I miss the days of terminals where you'd drag it and see the background update
<penguin42> long long ago, your program wrote a character to a port - and thus it was written; and then over time the host rendered the character and it wrote... 8 bytes and it was written,  and then it got fancy and antialiased, and then five layers of GL later...
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I did enjoy the obvious bodge with the desktop-background showing
<redtape|renegade> Crumbs .. just tried to glue a lightbulb again .. :: http://bit.ly/121lP1h   ::: D'oh
<BigRedS> tried to glue a lightbulb?
<redtape|renegade> BigRedS, Nearly did .. Pulled out at the last minute ,... My friend was saying .. "Leets glue this mother."
<redtape|renegade> **Lets glue this ...
<BigRedS> but when did it look like a good idea?
<BigRedS> I'm not so much puzzled as to why you didn't, but why you nearly did. though, in all honesty, I'm not *that* interested :)
<redtape|renegade> .. about 15 minutes ago when the socket became loose .. but just put in for another.
<redtape|renegade> Oh surething.
<popey> hmm, want to watch more Christophe Waltz
<BigRedS> I'm sure that I've used something that had an option "reboot into Windows" in the reboot dialogue box, anyone else seen that or was it probably just a dream?
<BigRedS> Aaages ago, probably pre-Ubuntu
<brobostigon> blackadder, bbc2, now, :)
<popey> BigRedS: yeah, i have seen that
<BigRedS> popey: why haven't I seen it recently? :)
<popey> BigRedS: i cant recall what system i saw it on
<popey> brobostigon: where are your channel irc stats?
<popey> we should probably link them in the /topic
<brobostigon> popey: taylorworld.me.uk
<brobostigon> popey: it looks like it is updating properly, i will check it more regularly.
<popey> chanserv seems dead
<christel> yeah, ddos
<popey> ah
<brobostigon> eeeek
<popey> no topic changes for me then
<brobostigon> is it updating properly.?. it looks like it is.
<popey> looks like it
<brobostigon> good, :)
<penguin42> wth is up with freenode today
<popey> ddos apparently
<popey> 19:34:07 [freenode] -kloeri(~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri)- [Global Notice] Hi all, apologies for the continued netsplits. We're having some issues stemming from a DDoS attack
<popey> but we're working with our sponsors on attack mitigation. Thank you for using freenode.
<popey> 22:29:45 [freenode] -tomaw(tom@freenode/staff/tomaw)- [Global Notice] Hi all. We're just completing some administrative tasks after services extended tea break. They'll return shortly.
<popey> Sorry for the outage!
<popey> etc
<penguin42> ah
<Myrtti> I did put stuff in Twitter/Identica/Google+/Facebook!
<penguin42> is that all :-)
<bigcalm> Star Trek was fun. People should go and see it :)
<penguin42> intends to in a week or so; I've got some time off - can go and see it in the day when it'll be quieter
<bigcalm> We've just been to a 20:30 showing. Screen had about 50 people tops in it I think
<bigcalm> We did go and see the 2D version though
<penguin42> oh, wouldn't want 3d; I do want Imax though
 * bigcalm looks forward to owning the blu-ray release
<bigcalm> Now we need to see Ironman 3 and Despicable Me 2
<bigcalm> Question is, do I want to buy the original films on blu-ray?
<ali1234> do you like star trek?
<bigcalm> Yes
<ali1234> do you have good eyesight and a big TV?
<bigcalm> Â£62.65 on Amazon for the first 10 films
<bigcalm> Yes and yes (well, 37")
<ali1234> is it a boxed set?
<redtape|renegade> OT | I imagine you'll hear a lot about bird flu on Sun12th/May  :: http://www.thelocal.fr/page/view/france-confirms-sars-like-virus-case :: Breakfast Show on  Radio-3 would love that at 7.00am
 * bigcalm adds it to his wish list
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm_> Humf, still with the ddosing then
<redtape|renegade> Blu-ray on handbrake ?  :\ mmmpft ! ::::: http://www.mint.com/blog/saving/how-to-save-money-when-youre-surrounded-by-big-spenders-0513/ :::
<redtape|renegade> **Blu-ray on Amazon.cws
<redtape|renegade> !packages
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<redtape|renegade> davmor2: Aloha !
<redtape|renegade> !packages
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<redtape|renegade> lubotu3: Looks like an error of the 3rd kind again.
<lubotu3> redtape|renegade: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-12
<knightwise> yoyo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> There is a MartijnVdS here!
 * brobostigon looks.
 * brobostigon waves
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿
<GentileBen> Is it possible to boot into Linux off a >2.1TiB GPT partition without UEFI?
<redtape|renegade> popey, Just this mail from moonpig , Just wondering if the R.A.t~ thing (beer train) was a complete success, if it will be an on-going thing, or if there was much success, If So, : how so ? [ http://bit.ly/ZROi8n ]
<popey> looks expensive
<popey> for 3 beers
<popey> and a bag of nuts
<brobostigon> an average good beer here, is around Â£3, which aint too bad.
<redtape|renegade> I'll get a beer from the bar maid, some time on Wednesday. Only good TV-eve. in the hotel.
<redtape|renegade> Wonder if that french woman will be there from Bordeaux  ?
 * redtape|renegade 's has particular petulance for her crude stories, every Wednesday evening,.
<redtape|renegade> Something just isn't right, when you miss the target, while playing darts, in a british pub~house, and curse in franÃ§ais.      .. can't see why she keeps going every fortnight ?
<brobostigon> does the bbc still show the f1 timing board on there site ?
<StevenR> brobostigon: is that not on F1's main site?
<StevenR> http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/
<brobostigon> StevenR: i have seen it on the bbc site before aswell, let me look at that also.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon: No , but if you google / Formula One LIVE timing and scoring / you should get it ... http://formula-one.speedtv.com/f1/results/
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: ah, thats a new one, :)
<redtape|renegade> yeah, had to scrape for that.
<redtape|renegade> There's always this, but i wouldn't hack it well http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/
<redtape|renegade> Looks like fav. is in MontrÃ©al , this time in June :: http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/index ::
<Myrtti> ice hockey!
<Myrtti> (well, not tonight)
<redtape|renegade> Any fans of the Fett here ?
<redtape|renegade> MyrtiWhat time does it begin ?
<redtape|renegade> Myrtti:     ...    ^ (??)
<Myrtti> what time does what begin?
<redtape|renegade> the ice hockey ..
<Myrtti> well I'm watching all the Finnish team games
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/icehockey
<Myrtti> they're not on until Tuesday
<Myrtti> I'm not too interested in NHL
<redtape|renegade> Oh , yeah .. here ... (timewise?)  http://bit.ly/16rnL97
<Myrtti> redtape|renegade: if you scroll down a bit, you can see when the next games are streamed on Youtube, and add those on your Google Calendar or whatever you use.
<Myrtti> it shows the times in whatever timezone you're in.
<Myrtti> mind you, the stream is artificially delayed by 30 minutes.
<Myrtti> (I have to put away my Facebook and Finnish IRC channels for the duration of the Finnish teams games)
<redtape|renegade> Myrtti: Yeah :\ I 'ate sportings .. Apparently you'll see this gal in London this Summer .. but she's reformed now .. http://bit.ly/ZRUFZr  ::: Faqibook ( you nutz  ?) .. it's a marketing complex.
 * redtape|renegade invokes a memory of a big blue button on the Angry berds website that ook you to the facebook local group .. X-(
<brobostigon> it is on the bbc website, they just started it up, as the race started.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon: But not with lap times / trap times .. they recycle the yahoo feeds.
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: i see those here, go to the grand prix timings link, on the right on the live grand prix page.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon: It's something I'd say not to get involved with .. but here's my screenshot of that WebSite ::: http://bit.ly/12mOpMl .. just hope ppl judge the hamilton well again .. ::: http://bit.ly/14f1JlY :::
<redtape|renegade> ~ wondering if I should update my w.ww.wepay.com webLinks. (-:
<redtape|renegade> OT | There must be some online guys who do watch-battery replacements .. ::: UK based ? ::  I'm just thnking of all those watch without batteries.. :::::::::::::::::: http://bit.ly/10jNxrA ::::::::::::
<knightwise> morning
<redtape|renegade> knightwise: Whaatsvp ?
<knightwise> nothing much. preparing blogposts for the upcoming week, fighting a pesty microsoft mouse that does not want to connect wirelessly
<redtape|renegade> Yeah .. My point is .. With SEO ppl . if you dont update yur twiitter .. What's the point ? ::: https://twitter.com/SVP_CO_UK ::::
<penguin42> knightwise: Why prepare rather than just post?
<knightwise> I write up all the articles in the weekends and they get posted throughout the week
<knightwise> one every weekday
<redtape|renegade> OT | At least they've bagged Moran |  :: http://brne.ws/98z  :::: nother~ blaggard gone =)   .. AFAs the post .. what do you thnk of:::  www.myhermes.co.uk for dropoff's ? ::::|
<Myrtti> heh, 3D glasses at the cinema look exactly like my New glasses
 * redtape|renegade still has his .. just walked in sayin' "I'm nickin' them".
 * Myrtti puts the phone away
<redtape|renegade> make me look like monkey thou.
 * redtape|renegade wonders when his ePub-Catalogue Add-on for /Foxxy/ will update this month on his notebook ... ::: http://bit.ly/1621wHp :::
<redtape|renegade> AlanChicken: OT | (AlanBell) 'know yur away but here's one for the BBq's. :::::  https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/332896838418046978  :: Any chance a Loco-UK DVD being sent yet ?
 * redtape|renegade kinda says :: " Hope I've got the correct AlanBe. there  ",.  :-7
<redtape|renegade> !packages
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<penguin42> hmm how many times do you have to watch Primer?
<popey> haqhah
<popey> $many
<popey> I have watched it at least 3 times
<popey> still don't *quite* get it
 * penguin42 just watched it the 1st time
<popey> it's rather good isn't it?
<penguin42> yes; I love the startup talk at the beginning (having done 3 but never quite that small...)
<popey> yeah, they did the tech stuff well, and the people and their homes look normal
<penguin42> heck, imdb says it was done on a budget of $7k
<popey> not like hollywood sets
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> well, that's because they ARE people's homes and not sets at that price!
<popey> â»
<popey> i quite fancy watching Inglorious Basterds again this evening
<popey> in a bit of a Christoph Waltz mood
<penguin42> hmm not seen that yet
<popey> worth it for him alone
<popey> along with Django Unchained which is *excellent*
<penguin42> nice thinks like the ancient Tek scopes and HP logic analysers they had scattered around
<popey> yeah, very few films pay attention to the detail like that
<popey> or they go too far and people obsess about it like the matrix using nmap
<penguin42> although again at that cost it was probably someones they borrowed/already had
<mungbean_> popey: i hate tarantino but is inglorious worth watching?
<mungbean> (i also don't like films that rewrite history)
 * penguin42 hasn't seen his newer stuff, but I liked his older fims
<moreati> mungbean: you probably won't like it then.
<popey> it's not rewriting history, it's a film
<popey> no books were burned during the making of the film
<popey> * Note: some books make have been burned.
<penguin42> more likely scripts
<mungbean> its a WWII film right?
<mungbean> don't know any more than that.
<funkyHat> Loosely
<mungbean> probably a bit wary since
<mungbean> 1) hollywood films rewrite WWII falsely
<mungbean> 2) QT has made some despicable films
<funkyHat> Well Inglorious Basterds is an unapologetic rewrite
<brobostigon> 3) hollywood regurgitates films and stories, for pointless sequels.
<mungbean> rewrite of a true story?
<funkyHat> no
<funkyHat> Well, yes, rewrite of WWII
<mungbean> oh :(
<brobostigon> 4) hollywood should come up with more original ideas.
<cocoa117> if i install my Ubuntu 12.04.2 onto a USB hard disk on a legacy BIOS PC, and then want this USB hard disk to be boot and run from a UEFI PC. Is this even possible?
<mungbean> 5) hollywood is about money. european cinema is about telling a story (usually)
<funkyHat> But in kind of a .... er, fun? way...
<popey> cocoa117: depends on the UEFI computer
<popey> cocoa117: it may be able to boot in bios mode
<popey> or not
<BigRedS> brobostigon: you want an "original idea" that isn't set in anything like anything that already happened?
<mungbean> oh, there's a film from 1978
<popey> mungbean: which despicable films?
<brobostigon> 6) they coulld have done a better job with the HHGTTG film.
<mungbean> reservoir dogs,
<brobostigon> BigRedS: well, that might be somewhat difficult.
<BigRedS> There's an awful lot of good (IMO) fiction set in real places/times, and it's helpful to make use of a universe of which your audience is already aware
<funkyHat> brobostigon: I think the h2g2 film was pretty good considering
<mungbean> pulp fiction
<popey> resovoir dogs and pulp fiction are "dispicable" films?
<popey> riiiiiight
<brobostigon> funkyHat: pretty good, yes, but deviated from some of douglas adam's production notes for the film, in some major ways.
<cocoa117> popey, does this mean, all the error should be in the UEFI booting proceedure, once the kernel and initrd is loaded, the Ubuntu should functioning regardless the BIOS or UEFI below it?
<mungbean> reservoir dogs glorifies violence in such an extreme way
<BigRedS> Inglorious Basterds wasn't a rewrite of WWII. It's fiction set in WWII
<mungbean> in fact, the whole film is about extreme violence that made me sick to the stomach
<penguin42> cocoa117: I suspect it is, I mean if you think about the install thumb drives they'll boot on pretty much anything
<funkyHat> brobostigon: I wasn't privy to Adams' notes, so I didn't notice ;)
 * penguin42 hands mungbean an ear
<mungbean> is this related film? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076584/?ref_=sr_2
<popey> mungbean: you wont like Django Unchained
<bigcalm> Made it into Nova Prospect. Wondering if I should have a break or keep going
<popey> haha
<mungbean> no i avoid QT since his early stuff
<popey> you're such a prude â»
<mungbean> or maybe you're desentitizede
<mungbean> typing fail
<directhex> <cocoa117> if i install my Ubuntu 12.04.2 onto a USB hard disk on a legacy BIOS PC, and then want this USB hard disk to be boot and run from a UEFI PC. Is this even possible? <-- you will install it in 16-bit 8086 mode. every uefi system i've encountered can boot in this mode, not exclusively in uefi mode
<mungbean> the res dogs and PF violence is grim
<brobostigon> funkyHat: it was only meant to be representative of the first book, where in there did trisha and arthur gets action together nowhere.
<mungbean> i saw RD without warning as it was the first day it came out
<penguin42> oddly, I don't have a problem with the violence in PF, but res dogs is a bit heavy for me
<mungbean> felt like walking out
<popey> oh i am absolutely desensitized
<mungbean> penguin42: yes i sort of enjoyed PF when i came out
<popey> but it's about degrees of desensitising
<funkyHat> brobostigon: right but that happens in films all the time. Best not to be annoyed by such things
<popey> there are films i will turn off after ~2 mins
<mungbean> but later showings with the brain in the hair etc and guns in every scene made me dislike it now
<cocoa117> directhex, what do u mean by install in 16-bit mode? I only know the Ubuntu I installed is 64 bit
<directhex> cocoa117, classic BIOS-based booting
<brobostigon> funkyHat: they didnt follow his instructions, plain and simple. they had to mess with it. something that could have been perfect, wasnt.
 * penguin42 lokes Kill Bill as well
<mungbean> since largely giving up on hollywood  films a few years ago, it changes your perspective
<penguin42> i
<mungbean> i watch violent/gritty stuff like spiral
<funkyHat> brobostigon: I would suggest that no film ever to be made will live up to your expectations of "perfect" ;D
<mungbean> but holywood glorifies guns/violence so much you wonder why they have problems
<brobostigon> funkyHat: 2001 is perfect.
<ali1234> brobostigon: the book isn't even canon
<cocoa117> directhex, bit confused, if the UEFI computer support USB booting, and be able to run the Grub2, then it should be able to load linux kernel, right? from that it should run? or some linux kernel need to be reconfigured
<funkyHat> Maybe screenwriters don't get paid as much for stuff that's less adapted, so they always mess with stuff? ;)
<popey> every DNA rewrite deviated from the previous one
<mungbean> i watched a film called bombon el perro yesterday, was rather sweet
<ali1234> dirk gently is better anyhow
<directhex> cocoa117, if you prepare it such that it boots on BIOS systems, your USB stick will only boot on BIOS-based systems. however, *most* UEFI systems can emulate BIOS and boot BIOS-only boot loaders
<popey> +1
<cocoa117> directhex, ok, let's put it this way then. If i installed the Ubuntu 64 bit on USB hard disk on a UEFI pc, does this mean, the legacy PC won't run my ubuntu? because the booting procedure on BIOS for Grub2 is different?
<Azelphur> I think I have a nice view from my desk now :D https://www.dropbox.com/s/5pypoe60n6wjpaq/IMG_20130512_173836.jpg?m
<funkyHat> cocoa117: worst case you might need to "repair" grub after moving/copying the hard drive
<directhex> cocoa117, if the installer boots in UEFI mode, then yes, you'd make a UEFI-only drive that can't boot in a "normal" system
<directhex> funkyHat, wrong. please don't.
<directhex> cocoa117, if the installer boots in BIOS emulation mode, then you'd make a BIOS-compatible drive
<cocoa117> directhex, the BIOS-compatible drive meaning the driver for Linux kernel, right?
<directhex> cocoa117, and if your UEFI system is configured to boot both UEFI and BIOS mode drives, you won't know which mode you're installing in, and it'll be an exciting roulette
<funkyHat> directhex: is it not possible to run grub-install (from chroot or similar)? I agree it's more straightfoward to make sure it's set up with a regular BIOS compatible bootloader in the first place
<directhex> funkyHat, it won't help the specific case, not without risking breaking it
<directhex> cocoa117, okay, there are two things: BIOS systems and UEFI systems partition their disks differently. and BIOS and UEFI systems use totally different boot loaders (i.e. UEFI GRUB is not BIOS GRUB)
<cocoa117> directhex, ohhh, the disk partition is also different, ok, got it, that's why this thing is so hard to mix
<directhex> can you install in such a way that both work? mmmmmmmmm........... as long as you're not dual-booting with windows, i think so. but you'd need to do it manually
<moreati> huh, PM spam. That's a new one on me
<directhex> BIOS systems use "MBR" partitioning. UEFI systems use "GPT" partitioning.
<cocoa117> directhex, yes, MBR and GPT, now that rings bell
<nucc1> hi guys, if a c program crashes on ubuntu, any one know where the core file will go?
<cocoa117> directhex, ok, i guess, even the UEFI does boot the Grub2 loader at the first place, the way handle the USB hard disk's partition is also going to be trouble for pure UEFI system
<directhex> cocoa117, and BIOS systems boot by booting something like 200 bytes of 16-bit 8086 machine code at the start of the disk, whilst UEFI systems boot by loading an UEFI application from your UEFI system parition
<cocoa117> directhex, same as legacy BIOS to handle GPT
<cocoa117> directhex, ok, got it, i think i start to the whole picture
<mungbean> glad i'm not having chicken korma tonight after that nappy change
<Myrtti> well, that was Star Trek Into the Darkness
<directhex> well, the GPT spec is written in such a way that you could use a GPT disk to boot on a BIOS system. windows doesn't support it, but linux can do it. but you'd need to install grub into the fake MBR at the start of the disk, instead of in a UEFI system partition
<Myrtti> pretty, but not entirely surprising
<moreati> Myrtti: to calibrate, what was your opinion of the 2009 film?
<Myrtti> moreati: more surprising.
<Myrtti> mind you, I did wring my hands and tipped my popcorn bag a bit
<cocoa117> directhex, does that mean, i need to install grub into MBR for legacy BIOS to boot, and also have partition called UEFI, so the UEFI system can boot it as well?
<cocoa117> directhex, enn, that does sound complicated
<moreati> Myrtti: thanks, think I'll wait for it to hit rental
<redtape|renegade> popey: cocoa117: I thnk this has been updated :: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_x86_1304&num=1 :: [comparison article x32 V x64 ]
 * redtape|renegade reaches for a Border Crofters Crunch Biscuit ::https://diasp.eu/posts/995886 ::
<penguin42> redtape|renegade: Head or feet first?
<redtape|renegade> penguin42: Definitely two heads at once .. prob.ly embracing the box aswell. <|:0
<nucc1> goodness, the ads on this site are a nightmare
<nucc1> phoronix.
 * nucc1 installs adblock.
<nucc1> can't move mouse without something popping up
<redtape|renegade> nucc1: You've got NoScript too, right ?
<nucc1> redtape|renegade, no, i find javascript essential. i have no qualms with ads generally, just that phoronix uses them irresponsibly.
 * redtape|renegade thinks AdBlocker + NoScript stop him from watching pr0n.
<nucc1> lol. porn is done on mobile.
<redtape|renegade> poor twitcam thou. @~)~~~~
<nucc1> anyway, the article leaves me indifferent.
<redtape|renegade> the phoronix one ?
<nucc1> yea, about 64-bit vs 32 bit.
<redtape|renegade> try /book reviews, much better.
<nucc1> don't need any convincing.
<nucc1> i ditched 32 bit long ago.
<nucc1> and the performance differences are irrelevant. I'm not doing exascale number crunching.
<nucc1> a few milliseconds here and there will not make or mar my computing.
<redtape|renegade> nucc1: Prob.ly right ::http://bit.ly/15CH4Nh ::
<nucc1> lol
<mark12> can someone help i have a problem when i run virtualbox or vmware player my connection shows multipal connections
<lukuntu51> hey
<lukuntu51> can anybody help me find the image-line folder in ubuntu???
<redtape|renegade> !package What package are you using ?
<lubotu3> redtape|renegade: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<redtape|renegade> !package
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<lukuntu51> i want to find my fl studio installation using wine
<lukuntu51> but i cant find image-line folder
<MartijnVdS> popey: I made it :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: the new tire held up ;)
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Please don't initiate a pony car arguement again .. it's been busy as enough .. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/11%20Good%20As%20Gold.m4a
<MartijnVdS> ?
<redtape|renegade> dont you remember ..
<redtape|renegade> you take nearly aN HOUR TO SEE IF BATTERIES WORK AGAIN .. =8)
<redtape|renegade> SOZ FOR CAPS.
<redtape|renegade> soz for caps.
<popey> MartijnVdS: Yay!
<MartijnVdS> Only have EDGE here though
<MartijnVdS> sooo slloooowww
<MartijnVdS> at least I won't use up my GB at this rate :P
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm in Washford, in a valley
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont know the place, but yes, that doesnt help being in a valley.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: google maps it :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good plan batman, :)
<MartijnVdS> I'm oing to shut down  the laptop.. bye! :)
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: Am I getting any closer on the car-way thing ? :: http://bit.ly/19g0iVl ::
<brobostigon> bye MartijnVdS o/
<mungbean> and stop spoiling the weather MartijnVdS
<mungbean> my heating came on yesterday
 * redtape|renegade can't wait till 9.00pm to see f the outbreak has arrived from FranÃ§ais.
<redtape|renegade> **if the o...
<mungbean> oh dear, sky have their own version of click, called swipe
<redtape|renegade> mungbean: mymy .. I guess it must use RuNet , then. :>
<moreati> mungbean: Sky the TV company, and click the BBC News programme?
<redtape|renegade> moreati: yeps .. It's BSKYB & beeb, over here.
<moreati> to answer my own question, yes http://go.sky.com/vod/content/SKYNEWS/content/videoId/7cbb6467170ca310VgnVCM1000000b43150a________/content/default/videoDetailsPage.do
<mungbean> yes
<brobostigon> woops, my provided tv statistics are working beautifully. :)
<brobostigon> yay
<mungbean> it was only ten mins thankfully
<brobostigon> irc*
<mungbean> dont usually watch sky but bbc had some boring gubbins on
<brobostigon> balls, my channel statistics are working great :)
<moreati> redtape|renegade: not sure what you mean, but to clear any misconceptions: I'm in the UK
<redtape|renegade> moreati: surething BSYB = Sky ... BBC= beeb.
<moreati> yes...
<redtape|renegade> just dotiing the I's and crossing the T's.
<moreati> ok
<brobostigon> BSKYB*
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon: troo.
<brobostigon> redtape|renegade: :)
<mungbean> ebay is no longer a place for good deals :(
<mungbean> postage kills it
<redtape|renegade> mungbean: You can get a free package measure-er and packaging has come down a lot.
<redtape|renegade> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_four
<redtape|renegade> whopps.ie
<redtape|renegade> OT | no outbreak .. looks like the ziombie birds are at home.
<redtape|renegade> **zombie birds .. are ..
<sebsebseb> hi
<redtape|renegade> sebsebseb: Hi there .. you seen Jono's video's lately .. from last week ?
<sebsebseb> redtape|renegade: the Q&A ?
<redtape|renegade> yep.
<sebsebseb> or what do you mean ?
<sebsebseb> redtape|renegade: I think I was in it last week, maybe not
<sebsebseb> don't remember
<sebsebseb> what about it ?
<redtape|renegade> i didn't watch it .. did i miss much ?
<sebsebseb> redtape|renegade: probably not realy,  it will be ther some where
<sebsebseb> online
<redtape|renegade> did he grow up and play the guitar again ?
<sebsebseb> redtape|renegade: think so
<redtape|renegade> thanx for your input . i know you ask some brilliant questions'
<sebsebseb> redtape|renegade: maybe I do a really great talk to :d  I hope so, going to be doing one in a few weeks
<sebsebseb> 30 minute talk!
 * redtape|renegade boots another daily image of Xubuntu on the wee-book.
<redtape|renegade> The evening be good AlanBell .
<redtape|renegade> Yay . they've sorted out the Wifi light on my netbook .. no more wrapping the case in tin foil B-)
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: Haven't TL;DR 'd you for a while .. how's the front garden Jap. tree ?
<AlanBell> hi redtape|renegade
<AlanBell> oh yeah, DVDs :(
<AlanBell> I was hoping something would be done about DVDs this cycle - or some kind of alternative
<AlanBell> but it seems there won't be anything until 14.04
<AlanBell> I can send the rest of the 12.10 DVDs I have
<zleap> AlanBell, dvd's would be useful for events etc
<zleap> in general even if canonical keep pressing 12.10 discs for now
<czajkowski> it will contine to produce LTS ones until the next LTS
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ^
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: Yeah, the 12.10 DVD's will do fine .. do you need some stamps .. I did send a note a while ago.
<AlanBell> redtape|renegade: yeah, I have your note, still in a desk drawer, I will try and send them this week some time
<redtape|renegade> czajkowski: Good wheally good pic. By The Way .. http://bit.ly/163c5Kh
<AlanBell> czajkowski: for conference packs and things but not loco allocations I think?
<AlanBell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KaOC9danxNo#! awesome level off the planet
<redtape|renegade> opening ...
<czajkowski> redtape|renegade: bit stalkerish there ;)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yeah if needed
<redtape|renegade> czajkowski: Do you want me to delete it ?
<czajkowski> redtape|renegade: I care not tbh, just find it a bit odd you'd post it tbh
<czajkowski> as I said a bit stalkerish
<redtape|renegade> it's binned.
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: it's prob.ly non-applicable, but here's my cosmonaut post :: https://plus.google.com/102239783463620737215/posts/FMn47GVPTzf
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I'm yet to mail gllug about hackntalk. What should I link to as a "for more about this" sort of thing? Eventbrite?
<redtape|renegade> BigRedS: She must be away .. there are wiki's to update if you need a channel. https://cryptoparty.org/wiki/Greater_London (by all means choose the webpage.)
<BigRedS> Hm? Nah, I wanted her canonical description of it
<redtape|renegade> OT | Time for a bit of Mulch :: | http://open.spotify.com/track/69TA1l42ALrlviGs4KI1Z4
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-05
<popey> penguin42: yeah, can do
<popey> ali1234: irc ops team, dunno who runs the log server though
<popey> penguin42: I'm convinced it's chrome
<popey> but the web browser shouldn't be able to take down the entire stack.
<popey> penguin42: alt-sysrq works, ping responds, nothing else does, i left an ssh running last night but it just timed out when the box became unresponsive
<popey> will leave a vmstat running tonight
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, the vmstat should show if it swaps itself to death, which is the only thing chrome should be able to do to be nasty
<popey> I suspect GPU killing stuff
<popey> not swapping
<popey> I cannot believe 8 tabs will cause swap on 16GB machine
<penguin42> yeh I'd agree with GPU, and chrome might easily do something different to it
 * popey ssh's in and runs "vmstat 5 | tee -a ~/vmstat.log" in byobu
<popey> that way if ssh drops out it will still be running
<penguin42> popey: netconsole is worth a try, if alt-sysrq responds then the kernel isn't entirely dead, and netconsole could get you log messages
<popey> netconsole looked complicated â»
<daftykins> heh you guys ever encountered programs that scan a filesystem quicker when minimised due to not needing to show the file path progress? XD
<popey> yes
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, only for bugs that don't respond to being shouted at
<popey> also file transfer gonig faster when minimised
<daftykins> O_O
<popey> rsyncing a directory full of tiny files
<daftykins> almost suggests a blocking progress bar
<penguin42> you get dumb things like guis that force a refresh on each file, so that with lots of files it redraws everytime
<popey> hello compiz!
<daftykins> hehe
<popey> clearing out disk space...
<popey> VID_20140305_171330.mp4 which is a video of daftykins cycling along the path
<daftykins> :D
<popey> \o/ 6G freed up
<popey> ls
<popey> oops
<daftykins> should get my disks and enclosure this week
<daftykins> i'm torn because i know now would be the ideal time to jump ship from my current NTFS array
<daftykins> anyone had any experience with some good HDD burn-in methodology?
<popey> whoohoo, deleted another 15G of crap
<popey> /home/alan/.Private  224G  195G   29G  88% /home/alan
<popey> much better
<penguin42> yeh copy your critical data to the drives, get comfortable that they're stable, and then turn the other system off - then it'll fail if it's going to
<daftykins> mm but last build i did i had a disk or two die pretty early on
<daftykins> which was quite a shock given they were/are RAID edition ones from WD
<daftykins> granted the RAID5 build process on a 3ware works them out by going through everything first time, but i could probably do with hitting them a little harder
<penguin42> I think the RAID edition stuff is primarily to do with thermal recal times and longgevity, not young death
<daftykins> last time was controller to controller, this time it'll be unit to unit on the same card
<daftykins> not sure i follow?
<penguin42> daftykins: OK what is a 'RAID edition' ?
<daftykins> a specific subtype of WD hard disks certified for higher MTBF
<daftykins> they have 5 year warranties typically
<penguin42> are you sure it's primarily about higher MTBF?
<penguin42> I'm just saying that there are other things that are desirable for a RAID
<daftykins> hmm, not really - more so just certified for 24/7 operation
<penguin42> daftykins: There are some things in drive firmware that some of the drives that claim being good for a RAID do differently; in particular limiting the length of time they retry on a soft error
<daftykins> sounds like that TLER function
 * penguin42 googles - yes
<popey> Bed. Nn
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> i should really do some reading before i set this one up
<daftykins> may be some functions in the firmware that are advised against or what not
<penguin42> daftykins: also I'm not sure that better lifetime is anymore of a prediction of whether a drive will fail in it's very early life
<daftykins> sure, but i hadn't ever had new disks pop so soon before :)
<daftykins> it's funny that i'm upgrading but yet again i'll actually be reducing power consumption
<penguin42> daftykins: sometimes you do get bad ones, maybe they had a rough ride somewhere between the factory and your desk, who knows
<maps|wrk> everyone off work tomorrow i take it?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> seems so
<Krenair> Is gedit broken on 14.04?
<Krenair> On my laptop everything on each menu is disabled
<Krenair> ... I was about to say all of it's menus are gone missing entirely on my desktop, but seems that applies to all programs I have open :|
<Krenair> Also on my desktop I can no longer click on the icon in the top right to get to system settings/shut down/lock/etc.
<Nykyrian> Hello
<Nykyrian> I'm in need of some help
<daftykins> Krenair: you really ask at the worst times :)
<Nykyrian> Oh really?
<daftykins> Nykyrian: oh but it's 2:30am... consider here or #ubuntu
<Krenair> yeah I know :/
<Krenair> think I'll just try restarting
<Nykyrian> Oh wow, I'm in California
<Nykyrian> it's 6:30 pm
<daftykins> Krenair: backup your data and clean install, your install was really busted the other night :)
<daftykins> Nykyrian: how come you came into a UK channel then? :)
<Nykyrian> No one in usa
<daftykins> #ubuntu is 24/7
<daftykins> anywho must sleep, nn \o
<daftykins> maps|wrk: have a good shift
<maps|wrk> cya daftykins
<maps|wrk> Krenair: fixed?
<Krenair> maps|wrk, well the issue on my desktop is gone
<Krenair> (I simply restarted that)
<Krenair> laptop's gedit is still broken
<maps|wrk> what about removing gedit and try reinstalling
<Krenair> The following packages will be REMOVED
<Krenair>   gedit ubuntu-desktop
<Krenair> hmm
<Krenair> That doesn't look like what I want to do
<Krenair> maps|wrk, how do you remove gedit without touching anything else?
<maps|wrk> ah not sure :(
<maps|wrk> lets see
<maps|wrk> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1375827
<maps|wrk> If the user is experiencing problems with gedit, it may be preferable to first reset the user's preferences by removing the user's .config/gedit folder rather than attempting to remove the entire application and the ubuntu-desktop metapackage. Learn more about Ubuntu's MetaPackages.
<Krenair> maps|wrk, ran "mv .config/gedit .config/gedit_old"
<Krenair> opened gedit, same issue
<maps|wrk> grmpf
<maps|wrk> can u take a screenshot of it
<Krenair> not easily
<Krenair> taking a screenshot closes the menu
<Krenair> oh, I can delay the screenshot. one sec
<Krenair> maps|wrk, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10971457/Gedit%20menus%20disabled.png
<maps|wrk> ah no
<ali1234> what's actually wrong?
<maps|wrk> Application Blocked  Access to the application you were trying to use has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.
<ali1234> all menus are disabled?
<ali1234> try disabling global menus
<ali1234> quit all gedit windows, open shell, run the following command:
<ali1234> UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=no gedit
<ali1234> gedit menus should be inside the window like in a normal desktop
<ali1234> see if they now work
<ali1234> although this might cause gedit to go into "funky gnome shell mode" in which case something else might happen to the menus, but in any case, they won't be in the top panel, and they might start working
<ali1234> Krenair: ^
<ali1234> also you might need to run "unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY; gedit"
<ali1234> i'm not sure how the variable is handled internally
<ali1234> or possibly "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 gedit"
<Krenair> ali1234, yep, they work with UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=no set
<ali1234> good. so you've found a bug in ubuntu's global menu
<ali1234> do you have ubuntu-gnome installed?
<ali1234> this sounds like bug 1277888
<lubotu3> bug 1277888 in Ubuntu GNOME "In most apps all menu items are gray / unclickable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277888
<Krenair> ali1234, aptitude says it can't find that package
<Krenair> so no
<ali1234> it isn't a package, but in any case, you'd know if you had it
<ali1234> perhaps you have the affected library installed without having all the whole ubuntu-gnome
<ali1234> any PPAs?
<Krenair> For some reason I don't get this issue on LibreOffice (the example in that bug you linked), just gedit
<ali1234> hmm... well, sublte variation on the same thing
<ali1234> did you upgrade or clean install?
<Krenair> upgrade
<Krenair> (very very unclean upgrade. as in the system was unbootable for a while until daftykins helped out)
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> any idea why that happened?
<Krenair> Some failure part way through the process, then recovery mode insisted on running fsck before doing anything
<Krenair> but fsck just got stuck
<ali1234> so my recommendation is to disable all PPAs and verify all repository information
<Krenair> some other issues which I forget, but I ended up completing the update by mounting the drive from a live cd and running the package manager under chroot
<ali1234> it may be easier to just do a clean install
<Krenair> then I could boot and finish updating some remaining bits
<Krenair> Ended up with a few issues - two lock screens (fixed by removing gnome-screensaver), gedit menus disabled, weird white box around the login prompt, weird white box on the alternative clocks below the calendar
<ali1234> right, it sounds very much like you have some bits of ubuntu-gnome installed that you shouldn't have
<ali1234> so at this point a reinstall is almost certainly going to be easier, but if you want i'll walk you through verification steps
<Krenair> For relatively minor issues like these I'd prefer to avoid reinstalling...
<ali1234> haha
<ali1234> well, okay, first step: check if there are any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<Krenair> few things e.g. dropbox, chrome, google-talkplugin, steam...
<Krenair> nothing mentioning gnome
<ali1234> hmm...
<ali1234> okay, next step, sanity check /etc/apt/sources.list
<ali1234> every line should say "trusty" and not "saucy" or "raring" or anything like that
<Krenair> everything in there is for trusty, except some commented lines
<ali1234> what do the commented lines say?
<Krenair> optional lines for Canonical's 'partner' repository
<ali1234> okay, that's fine
<Krenair> wasn't enabled beforehand so wasn't touched by the upgrade process
<ali1234> right, next step: sudo apt-get install apt-show-sources
<ali1234> sorry, apt-show-versions
<Krenair> one thing disabled on upgrade to trusty: mariadb repo for precise
<ali1234> did you go 12.04 -> 14.04?
<Krenair> no... hm, what?
<ali1234> precise to trusty
<Krenair> why did I have a precise repo listed while I was on saucy?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> what was the first version you installed?
<Krenair> Pretty sure it was saucy on this machine
<ali1234> sometimes you just have to use the old PPAs because they don't get updated
<Krenair> yeah, was probably that
<Krenair> okay, I have apt-show-versions
<ali1234> so now "sudo apt-get update" if you haven't recently
<ali1234> then apt-show-versions | grep 'No available version'
<ali1234> apt-show-versions | grep 'No available version' | pastebinit
<ali1234> and then post the link
<Krenair> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7396363
<ali1234> hmm..... no smoking guns in there unfortunately
<ali1234> maybe we're overlooking something obvious here. have you tried creating a new user account, and logging in with that user?
<Krenair> ali1234, made a new user, logged in, same issues
<ali1234> damn
<ali1234> okay, well here's the next step, but it will take ages
<maps|wrk> have you tried the forums?
<maps|wrk> often find someone else had same issue and theres help on there
<ali1234> i googled it, found not very much
<ali1234> except that this happens if you have the wrong gtk version
<ali1234> so anyway: sudo apt-get install debsums
<ali1234> sudo debsums | grep -v OK
<ali1234> this will take ages. it will verify that the installed files in the filesystem actually match what is inside the debs
<ali1234> if it outputs nothing then all is OK
<ali1234> of course there's always a chance that you have extra, untracked files... but that's the next step
<maps|wrk> hmm has he gone
<ali1234> probably it is taking ages like i said...
<ali1234> it's going to md5sum pretty much every file
<ali1234> won't be fast on a laptop
<maps|wrk> ah
<Krenair> am still here
<ali1234> takes about 30 seconds on a quad core system with SSD and 16GB RAM
<Krenair> oh, looks like it finished
<Krenair> lists 'FAILED' next to /boot/vmlinuz-3.11.0-12-generic
<ali1234> huh, that's *really* fishy
<Krenair> couldn't open some files due to too many levels of symlinks
<ali1234> that is also really fishy
<Krenair> but that's it
<ali1234> can you pastebin the output please?
<Krenair> http://pastebin.com/jY1BmmmX
<ali1234> hmm. just some sendmail junk. not harmful at all. vmlinuz is a bit more suspicious
<ali1234> what does uname -a say?
<Krenair> Linux alex-laptop 3.11.0-20-generic #34-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 1 20:40:25 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<ali1234> hmm, well that's wrong for starters
<ali1234> but it isn't the broken one
<ali1234> unless the filename is wrong
<ali1234> trusty should get you 3.13.0-8-generic #28-Ubuntu
<Krenair> ali1234, wow, I just checked the software updater. A lot of packages to update...
<ali1234> hmm.................. well update them!
<Krenair> I thought it was all done :/
<ali1234> if you interrupted the install, it probably still has to install loads of packages
<ali1234> i assumed you'd already done this ...
<ali1234> thi is almost certainly the problem
<ali1234> although to be fair the "apt-check-versions" step was supposed to check this, but i guess it doesn't work quite how i thought
<ali1234> interrupted upgrades can also put you into a "partial update" situation, where not all updates can be installed in one go
<ali1234> that's probably what happened here
<Krenair> ali1234, I thought I had done this too.
<Krenair> ali1234, yeah everything seems fixed
<Krenair> although I am getting the odd 'System program problem detected' dialog
<ali1234> it can mean things crashed in the past and the report is still in /var/crash
<ali1234> and if it is huge it will never upload properly and just keep showing the error
<Krenair> so rm the file in /var/crash and see if it still happens?
<ali1234> if it keeps on doing it for the same program, yeah
<ali1234> or if there's loads of old crashes in there
<Krenair> hmm... seems okay now
<Krenair> thanks ali1234
<ali1234> cool. i'm going to bed then
<Krenair> g'night
<mapp> morning
<shauno> I thought it was meant to be May :/  miserable out there
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> its sunny here
<mapp> bit cold though
<Guest71016> hi I am having a problem with M compaq presario V4000
<Guest71016> it say that hardware switch is disabled
<Guest71016> so I have no wifi
<Guest71016> anyone?
<Richard_> Richard
<Richard_> hi I am having a problem with My compaq presario V4000 it say that hardware switch is disabled so I have no wifi
<jussi> Richard_: does your machine have a wifi switch? have you tried changing its position?
<Richard_> yes i have tried that still the same
<Richard_> i have also tryed to enabled it by boting from a cd
<Richard_> and reset the bios to default
<jussi> Ive heard some need the windws driver to reset the firmware or so, b ut no idea if that applies to you...
<Richard_> it is a serious bug in the ubuntu kernel
<Richard_> a lots of people are having this hardware switch disabled
<jussi> Richard_: Ive no idea to be honest where the bug is. most likely with the manufacturer not makingg certain specifiactions available
<Richard_> it must be a way to enable the wifi or Ubuntu become useless on a lots os machine
<Richard_> well i guess I will have to try linux mint to see if it recognise the wifi
<foobarry> theres an askubuntu article about this
<foobarry> what is the wifi card Richard_
<Richard_> how do I found out
<Richard_> how would i know whatis my wifi card
<popey> Richard_: does "rfkill list" show the wifi as blocked?
<Richard_> here it is
<Richard_> 0: phy0: Wireless LAN
<Richard_> 	Soft blocked: no
<Richard_> 	Hard blocked: yes
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/155391/my-wireless-is-hard-blocked
<popey> seen that?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/151098/wi-fi-doesnt-work-hard-blocked also
<Richard_> ok thk you, hold on i am trying the steps
<Richard_> ok I have done the steps, i am rebooting to see if it work
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Richard> Richard
<Guest68048> richard
<Guest68048> ok ihave done all the steps in http://askubuntu.com/questions/151098/wi-fi-doesnt-work-hard-blocked
<Guest68048> Richard   and still hadware switch disabled
<Guest68048> so no wifi
<Guest68048> anyone has a solution
<Guest68048> wifi is disabled by hardware switch
<DJones> Hmmh, Different Dave Walker, but seems relevant http://davewalker.cc/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/my-various-hammers-1024x822.gif
<Guest68048> ok is there a solution i am so fuming for the last three days i am trying to solve this
<Guest68048> and frankly i have enough
<Guest68048> maybe i should go back to windows
<directhex> and that is broadcom's gift to linux.
<MooDoo> it's all soooo quiet shhhhh sshhhhhh
 * nigelb plays Gangam Style to make some noise
<Richard_> Richard
<Richard_> Richard
<Richard_> Richard       hi I am having a problem with My compaq presario V4000 it say that hardware switch is disabled so I have no wifi
<Richard_> I still have problem with this
<Richard_> anyone?
<Richard_> is there anyone on this channel
<brobostigon> be patient, if someone can help, they will answer.
<directhex> Richard_, what did you try *exactly*?
<Richard_> I have reset the bios to original defult setting, then I have done rfkill list, rfkill unblock 0 and 1
<Richard_> then Ihave restarted with the cd, and enabled networking still the same
<Richard_> deos it have to do with this  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2162026
<Richard_> Realtek RTL8188EE Laptop Wi-Fi
<directhex> Richard_, to confirm, it's a 2005-era laptop with Intel wireless?
<Richard_> do you have a bin i can paste the info
<directhex> um... paste.ubuntu.com?
<directhex> or literally any pastebin on the internet
<Richard_> ok here is the result
<Richard_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7398570/
<directhex> right, so intel 2200
<Richard_> yes
<directhex> i think i need to see all of dmesg. you should be able to run "dmesg | pastebinit" to automatically throw it online
<directhex> i don't see a physical wifi disable switch on the side of that model, but there may be a Fn-key combination with a little antenna on it. let me find a photo of the keyboard
<Richard_> ok hold on
<Richard_> no actualy there is no combination key, but i have a wifi button
<directhex> on the plastic, above the keyboard, to the left of the power button
<Richard_> i have tryed without success
<Richard_> yes i have tryed that
<directhex> okay, the dmesg output should be informative
<Richard_> well it say that E: Unable to locate package dmesg
<directhex> ... what on EARTH are you typing?
<Richard_> dmesg | pastebinit
<directhex> mmmmm, no. your error wouldn't come from that
<directhex> that's an error from apt-get
<Richard_> when i typed that dmesg | pastebinit  it say that i should try with sudo pat-get
<directhex> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<Richard_> this is the info i get
<Richard_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7398638/
<Richard_> ok let me try that
<Richard_> ahhh it is installing
<Richard_> pastebin
<Richard_> ok it has finish
<Richard_> next
<directhex> now actually run dmesg | pastebinit
<Richard_> thk you for your help much appreciated
<Richard_> ok hold on
<Richard_> yes here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/7398655/
<directhex> [   20.786447] ipw2200: Radio Frequency Kill Switch is On:
<directhex> [   20.786447] Kill switch must be turned off for wireless networking to work.
<jussi> seriously, whose idea was this one... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-27275300 ?
<directhex> it really really believes that you've hardware-disabled wireless
<Richard_> sorry guys i am lost
<Richard_> i am not an ubuntu expert so go easy on me
<robotninja> jussi, a swimming pool the colour of urine in honour of Wolves? My dad (a life-long West Brom fan) would be crying with laughter at that, thanks for the link :)
<directhex> Richard_, your BIOS is telling ubuntu that you have disabled wifi
<jussi> robotninja: Im sure he will. :D and you are most welcome!
<Richard_> ok so how would I re enable it
<directhex> Richard_, typically this is a BIOS bug. is there an updated BIOS available?
<Richard_> by the way there is 1000 in my situation from thei nformation i GATHERED FOR THE LAST THREE DAYS
<Richard_> well i do I update my bios from ubuntu
<Richard_> because it works on windows
<Richard_> i read that it is a bug with the NDISWrapper
<directhex> no, it isn't
<Richard_> ohh ok
<directhex> you're not using NDISwrapper (a layer to load a windows wireless driver in linux)
<directhex> you're using ipw2200, the official intel wireless driver written by intel
<Richard_> ohh ok !!
<Richard_> is there anyway i can try to spgrade or update my bios
<directhex> check the compaq site.
<directhex> it's not uncommon for BIOS issues to not manifest on windows, due to workarounds - for example when my laptop was first released, the brightness control didn't work in linux, until i did a BIOS update
<Richard_> yes actualy i have this brigtness problem on my hp 6245 laptop with lubuntu on it
<directhex> a lot of laptop companies are TERRIBLE at writing BIOSes
<Richard_> ok let me check if compaq can help
<Richard_> Ithink that I might have found a solution for the problem
<Richard_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl
<directhex> sigh.
<directhex> NO
<directhex> your laptop has Intel 2200BG wireless
<directhex> installing a driver for a Broadcom wireless chip is not going to work
 * p42phone waits for this train to go some where
<Richard_> ohh ok so what do i need to do
<Richard_> i have find this answer from the ubuntu forum
<Richard_> No, you cannot. To sort of disable it you can phsically block or remove the hardware switch. There is no way to override the hardware disable button if rfkill shows hard blocked that is feasible for most people.
<Richard_> When you unblock it, if it gets stuck in some inconsistent state your best bet is to:
<Richard_> sudo modprobe -r iwl3945 && sudo modprobe iwl3945
<Richard_> I have an hpdv7 and the wireless a)uses the same driver and b)hardware toggle works for me.
<Richard_> can i remove the hardware switch or de install it
<Richard_> i do not need it because i have the button to switch on and off my wifi
<directhex> ....................
<directhex> that *IS* the hardware switch
<Richard_> yes can i remove it or de install it?
<Richard_> ohh i see
<Richard_> so my only solution is bios flash, can i use flashrom
<directhex> have you found a newer BIOS?
<Richard_> still looking
<Richard_> yes i have it
<Richard_> but is  the bios for xp os
<Richard_> which was install on the laptop before
<Richard_> it is a winflash containing the bios for my laptop model from HP website
<Richard_>  richard
<SuperEngineer> Just been trying 14.04 on test partition.  A lot a like. Alot prohibits me from moving away from 12.04
<SuperEngineer> [like over 50% of apps I'm adding fail]
<SuperEngineer> oh well, ho hum... knew I should have taken time off to test it beefore release ;)
<daftykins> what kinds of fails are they?
 * SuperEngineer still loves 12.04 to keep as main desktop for now... will try 14.04 again with fresh install
<SuperEngineer> [at some time later in my 2 weeks off]... ooops did I just make anyone jealous by that "2 weeks off" bit?  ;)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: choose an app in software centre... ends with package install failed :(  synaptic showing no errors.
<daftykins> how rude!
<SuperEngineer> too many tried to report bugs now... need to narrow it down to *what* is the cause [rather than report un-needed bugs for a lot of apps]
<SuperEngineer> - it's obviously something wrong at a "higher" leel
<p42phone> Super engineer: back to the code face for me after a bit more than a weekoff
 * SuperEngineer hugs 12.04 partition
<SuperEngineer> p42phone: I'll try to keep you in mind while Ienjoy me next 2 weeks.... NOT!
<p42phone> Bah, still been a nice rest
<SuperEngineer> [probably bettere for you than mine will be - mine is 2 weeks sick leave [post-op on knee]
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> old injury?
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: years & tyears & years of knee damage... too many incidents of damage to one knee for surgeon to put in box  marked "specific cause".  ;)
<p42phone> SuperEngineer: good luck with the op, getting cyborged?
<SuperEngineer> let's just say life has been full, interesting & [mostly] rewarding
<daftykins> might we have to consider you SuperDuperEngineer now if you've been upgraded?
<SuperEngineer> op done 4 days ago - 2 days og great pain after - things now getting better  [been checking for any signs of Cyborg implants ever since... none found]
<SuperEngineer> ...but I do seem to have an annoying habit of stopping conversations half way and telling people...
<SuperEngineer> "you will be assimilated"
<shauno> I guess you'd need bupa to get borg nanoprobes :/
<SuperEngineer> ...but that's ok isn't it?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> It was BUPA.
<daftykins> i just heard the Doctor's voice from Deus Ex 1
<SuperEngineer> High recommendations for the food as well... thinking of the hospital via kickstarter & opening a restaurant there
<SuperEngineer> *of buying
<daftykins> hahaha
<SuperEngineer> daftykins:  History of the doc on beeb3 tonight [repeat of course]
<daftykins> as in, Who? i don't watch that
 * daftykins ducks in preparation
<daftykins> diddledan: hi sir o/
<shauno> lol, sure, wake dan up - that's a rather cunning distraction
<diddledan> morning
 * SuperEngineer sends daftykins loads of virtual Dr Who theme tune hummings
<diddledan> oo wee ooo
<daftykins> shauno: 8D
<daftykins> shauno: spares me getting burnt at the stake as a non-Whovian
<SuperEngineer> You will be assimilated!  [ooops - sorry] ;)
<Richard_> Richard
<daftykins> no, you're Richard!
<Richard_> Richard Hi  i have removed the wifi card and plugged a belin wifi usb and it work but ikeep loosing the connection
<daftykins> i see, which version of ubuntu is this?
<SuperEngineer> Richard_: you are not the only one here... there appears to be a few others... perhaps explaining this morning might help
<Richard_> Ubuntu 13.10
<Richard_> ohh boy, well it is all about wifi hadware switch is disabled
<Richard_> i have tried everything and i start to give up, maybe linux mint will work??
<daftykins> you're certainly welcome to try any distro you like
<daftykins> what claims the hardware switch is disabled exactly?
<SuperEngineer> wifi hard blocked - wifi soft switch not blocked if I recall correctly?
<SuperEngineer> I forget the command that was used
<Richard_> yes wifi had block
<SuperEngineer> [it was beyond me - so I did not join in]
<Richard_> rfkill list
<daftykins> hmm i've heard that one before but i don't know what causes it
<Richard_> sorry  rfkill list all
<Alex______> hmhmm
<Alex______> Hello
<daftykins> hi
<Richard_> well i guess that is going to drive a lot of people of ubuntu
<Alex______> I am using a Wifi which is a bit slow so please bear with me .
<neuro> NEVER FEAR, I IS HERE
<neuro> what's happenin', dudes?
<Richard_> well hardware swith is disabled
<Richard_> and drive me crazy
<Richard_> has no wifi
<daftykins> Richard_: i sincerely doubt that your one issue is going to stop hundreds of people from using an OS, no offence
<Alex______> I am an ubuntu 12.04 user. Once I updated my software and my WIFI isn't working since then.
<Alex______> What should I doo???
<neuro> buy a mac
<neuro> I'M KIDDING
<SuperEngineer> Richard_: sudo-threats do not work here. You have already found another distro didn't help... and another method [different hardware].  Have you tried your google-fu to solve this?  Have you looked in Ubuntu Forums / Ask Ubuntu / manufacturers comments [etc. etc.]
<Richard_> ihave tried ubuntu forum. not ubuntu manufacturers comment
<penguin42> Alex______: It doesn't work at all - do you get any error or indications ?
<neuro> SuperEngineer: yay, monday evening shenanigans!
<neuro> how many laptops have hardware switches for radios these days anyway?
 * penguin42 thinks his thinkpad still does
<daftykins> every one i've owned
<neuro> i like the way you say "still"
<neuro> as though it might run off one day
<penguin42> neuro: It might!
<neuro> hmm, a compaq laptop user, eh?
<Alex______> I have no Wireless option. I am now using a wired network. I tried to get updates. It got downloaded but it is unable to install.
<Alex______> Firmware for Linux kernal drivers.
<daftykins> !paste | Alex______
<lubotu3> Alex______: Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<daftykins> would you like to share the error?
<Alex______> I am unable to install it.
<neuro> hmmm, walkers have a weird idea of what constitutes "meaty" crisps in a multipack ... cheese and onion?  meaty?
<Alex______> okay
<SuperEngineer> neuro - no the labelling was referring to cheese & chive crips!
<neuro> no cheese & chive in here
<diddledan> cripses
<SuperEngineer> mmmm........ meeeeeeeat.
<diddledan> neuro, you need a cow to make the cheese
<neuro> prawn cocktail, cheese and bacon, cheese and onion, smokey bacon and roast chicken
<neuro> yeah but that doesn't count :)
<neuro> that's like saying eggs are meat cos you need a chicken to make it
<diddledan> prawn isn't exactly "meat" either. it's fish or crustacean
<penguin42> neuro: No, you need an egg to make the chicken
<neuro> penguin42: no, you need a chicken to make the egg
<Alex______> Is it only for UK folks??
<neuro> Alex______: technically yeah, but paste the error as advised and maybe someone will be able to help
<daftykins> if you're a real devil you can use paste.ubuntu.com
<penguin42> Alex______: Don't worry, we're friendly
<daftykins> well, me and penguin42 are
<daftykins> ;)
 * diddledan eyes penguin42 .. speak for yourself!
<neuro> oi!
<SuperEngineer> You will be assimilated!  [ooops - sorry] ;)
<neuro> resistance is few-tile
<SuperEngineer> lol
<diddledan> neuro, my bathroom has that problem
 * penguin42 guesses that's SueprEngineer's new knee-jerk reaction
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> Suepr?
<neuro> Sue?
<SuperEngineer> lmfao
<neuro> something you're not telling us SuperEngineer?
<SuperEngineer> [or laugh my family friendly channel off]
<diddledan> hi sue</squeaky voice>
<SuperEngineer> neur
<neuro> o
<diddledan> is that a new chant
<diddledan> ?
<SuperEngineer> neuro: I have developed an interesting / curious /worrying Cyborg reflex since an op
<diddledan> neur.. o! neur.. o!
<Alexy> Hello
<neuro> I say "no", you say "survivors"
<neuro> NO!
<neuro> ...
<SuperEngineer> apples!
<diddledan> *burrp*
<neuro> you all suck :)
<SuperEngineer> but we are not sheep!
<diddledan> baa
<Alex______> hey how to I install a driver?
<neuro> http://youtu.be/fLFAXvFYhsE?t=1m39s
<diddledan> Alex______, most "drivers" come inbuilt
<neuro> and come with instructions
<Alex______> My wifi drivers lost!!
<penguin42> Alex______: Go back a few steps
<penguin42> Alex______: When was it working, what did you do which made is stop working?
<Alex______> Updated my OS.
<penguin42> Alex______: Still on 12.04 or you tried to update from/to something elsE?
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: from... to...
<Alex______> I had 12.04. I just updated available updates from update manager.
<penguin42> Alex______: OK, so if you boot and select the previous kernel does it help?
<Alex______> My WIFI and AMD graphics is not working.
<Alex______> How do I do that??
<penguin42> Alex______: When you boot it should give you a menu , and I think it's an advanced option lets you choose the previous version
<Alex______> I am planning to upgrade it to the latest Trusty Tahr.
<penguin42> Alex______: OK, well that may or may not fix your problem
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: when you turn on machine do yopu get a selection of what to boot... if not - please press [shift] on reboot once the POST disappears
<Alex______> But I have Downloaded the driver and am unable to install it.
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: Grub actually gives an option srtarting with the word "Previous"
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Ah that's easier
<Alex______> Only if I could install it I think the error would be solved
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: have you considered a hardware failure?
<penguin42> Alex______: It's best not to fight drivers unless you exhaust all other otpions
<penguin42> Alex______: This stuff should just work in Ubuntu, you shouldn't need to download drivers/firmware outside of the ubuntu packages - sometimes you have to but lets see first
<Alex______> So what is the best option to do??
<penguin42> Alex______: Try the previous kernel as me and SuperEngineer suggested - see if that gets you going
<Alex______> How
<Alex______> Guide me step-by-step
<MooDoo> hello all
<Alex______> Hello please help
<popey> yo
<penguin42> Hey Popey
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: when you turn on machine do yopu get a selection of what to boot... if not - please press [shift] on reboot once the POST [memory info etc.] disappears
<SuperEngineer> *you
<popey> penguin42: didnt crash last night â¨
<penguin42> popey: such is life
<Alex______> okay then?
<penguin42> popey: Does it crash while you're using it or only when idle or both?
<SuperEngineer> do you now see a selection list / a "menu" titled GRUB or anything>
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: : ^
<popey> penguin42: both
<Alex______> I am chatting on my laptop.
<penguin42> popey: Nod
<penguin42> popey: Have you considered the possibility it just crashes when it feels mean?
<Alex______> But if you hold on I can try all the procedures you say.
<Alex______> Will it crash??
<popey> heh
 * daftykins memtests popey
<SuperEngineer> Alex______: thank you the privilege of waiting to help you - I feel soooo honoured.
<popey> daftykins: good idea.
<daftykins> :)
 * popey reboots to memtest for the lols
<daftykins> popey: is it a particularly exotic setup? or just a misbehaving one?
 * SuperEngineer looks for "this bloke is a troll" button
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i had my same concerns
<daftykins> s/my/the/
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> huh, well thats odd
<popey> cant get the grub menu to appear
<daftykins> how rare!
<popey> \o/ other shift key
<popey> daftykins: no, nothing exotic. Lenovo X220 with 16GB RAM, 2xSSD..
<popey> in a docking station most of the time.
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> nice spec :O
<popey> i7 Sandybridge
<popey> will leave it running memtest overnight, just to eliminate that, good suggestion, thanks
<daftykins> my pleasure :)
<Alex______> How do I install it?/
<daftykins> Alex______: you mentioned upgrading to trusty... why don't you backup your data and do a clean install of that before going further?
<penguin42> hmm, we seem to have a regular fox - always about 3am
<SuperEngineer> The fox will be assimilated!  [ooops - sorry] ;)
<Alex______> But I can upgrade it only through WIFI.
<Alex______> SO I am planning to first install the driver and then Upgrade it.
<Alex______> The 1st:http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=309205
<daftykins> Alex______: wired works? so place it beside the router temporarily?
<Alex______> The 2nd:http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=309206
<Alex______> What should I do ??
<daftykins> can you open the details of that and paste it to us via paste.ubuntu.com ?
 * SuperEngineer closes & restarts IRC to activate new addition to ignore list
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> https://i.cloudup.com/BE_rYz4Tv5.jpg
<popey> oh my gosh
<popey> that looks lovely
<ali1234> is there a UK version?
<daftykins> looks like it's almost trying to be
<daftykins> quick two key swap and you're practically there
<daftykins> or not XD
<popey> ANSI and ISO versions
<popey> coolermaster Novatouch
<popey> the font is very reminiscent of the vt100
<daubers> So the best way to sell something to popey is to make it look like a vt100?
<popey> yes
<daubers> :)
<daftykins> daubers sir, i'm updating the ol' 3ware array with 6 x 2TB WD Red's :O
<daubers>  /o\
<daftykins> do not like?
<daubers> Last time I played with 3ware I wasn't impressed
<daubers> BUT
<daubers> I changed jobs, so don't have much to do with RAID's anymore
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> guess i can't bore you with such talk anymore
<daftykins> :)
<daubers> :)
<daftykins> that 9650SE has done me well since 2008 though
<daftykins> just my disks are out of warranty and hit 6 years spinning
<daftykins> not to mention full
<daubers> I try and keep up a bit, but I'm trying to get my head around a new bit of the industry as well now
<daubers> Ich, 6 year old drives
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> WD1001FYPS Re's
<daftykins> funny part was i didn't want to upgrade, i just ordered a single 1TB WD Red to fix the current one - but received this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogvzz7615wrvwz0/yHWSmQJVfm
<daubers> :)
<mapps> afternoon all
<mapps> big day today]
<robotninja> 'lo
<mapps> 24:DD
<mapps> 8pm est
<brobostigon> evening mapps
<mapps> evening mate
<mapps> how is everyone
<brobostigon> mapps: generally good day, and you?
<mapps> yea not bad...excited for 24
<mapps> double ep:D
<mapps> but il be at work so cant watch till 5am arghhh
<brobostigon> 24, oh that,
<mapps> ya
<mapps> you dont like it?
<brobostigon> theres better things i would rather watch.
<mapps> pfff
<daftykins> hehe
<mapps> noone cares but me?
<mapps> :(
<daftykins> i would, but i'm a few seasons behind and i kinda promised a lady friend i'd only watch them with her ;)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> best series ever
<daftykins> nah that's The Sopranos!
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> sopranos was good i agree
<mapps> and the wire?
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> still never gotten around to
<mapps> amateur hour
<mapps> !
<daftykins> though i was recently told season 1 was intentionally shot in crap quality, so at least now i know not to try and find a 'good version'
<mapps> pj
<mapps> OH
<mapps> really?
<daftykins> 'tis what a mate said anyway
<mapps> i didnt know that
<daftykins> can't seem to find any corroboration to that
<mapps> vicious rumours
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> y'know Sopranos was so ace, yet HBO have still yet to release anything besides season 1 and season 6 on bluray
<daftykins> it's a real shame - that's the #1 must own on my list
<daftykins> even though i couldn't even play them directly! :D
<mapps> play directly
<mapps> eh?
<daftykins> i don't own a bluray capable device
<mapps> ah
<mapps> 1 and 6 what about in between
<daftykins> just standard DVD
<mapps> aint that strange?
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620368/British-girl-20s-caught-having-sex-Virgin-aeroplane-toilets-male-passenger-just-met.html
<mapps> O_o
<daftykins> ooh-err.
<daftykins> not exactly news, nor are those bullet points at the top
<daftykins> but then the domain tells all
<dwatkins> indeed, why not just write "couple interrupted"
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> heh
<popey> 53% memtest
<popey> memtest takes ages with 16GB RAM. who knew!?
<dwatkins> I tend to leave it running over night, popey.
<popey> yeah, i plan to
<popey> here's an odd thing.
<popey> I use terminator
<popey> if I press CTRL+ALT+T it starts a "root terminal"
<popey> the icon in the launcher wants sudo prompt to run it
<daftykins> :o
<brobostigon> selby to win,
<diddledan> <insert family-unfriendly humour here>
<diddledan> ;-p
<diddledan> golly, I'm a n0rty person
<dogmatic69_> I have a cifs mount which is mounting as my user. How can I make it use a different user or allow www-data to access it?
<daftykins> in fstab?
<daftykins> or are you doing it manually?
<dogmatic69_> manual
<daftykins> -o umask=xxx,dmask=yyy are options i've seen before, might be the one?
<daftykins> no idea how you get those 3 digits though :D
<dogmatic69_> I was trying with -uid=www-data according to what I see in man
<daftykins> hrmm
<dogmatic69_> maybe I need forceuid..
<diddledan> dogmatic69_, you can do it with either -o uid=www-data or -o gid=www-data,umask=027,dmask=027
<dogmatic69_> 027 is?
<diddledan> those masks are bitmask against 777
<dogmatic69_> ok
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gjkivAf3
<diddledan> so 027 will default to providing read and execute (5) privilieges to the gid of www-data (uid=)
<daftykins> oh it's fake apparently, ignore
<dogmatic69_> I had, sudo mount -t cifs //server/path -o credentials=/path/to/pwd,sec=ntlm,uid=www-data -rw
<diddledan> dogmatic69_, that looks ok
<dogmatic69_> I am getting .mount: line 6: -o: command not found
<diddledan> if it doesn't work then maybe uid= is wrong and it should be user=?
<diddledan> uid might require the numeric
<dogmatic69_> man says string / id
<diddledan> (which on debian systems for www-data is 80 iirc)
<dogmatic69_> id -u www-data is 33
<diddledan> maybe it's gentoos that use 80 then
<dogmatic69_> ok, no error with 33, but still not monted as www-data
<dogmatic69_> seems it wont umont ether :/
<diddledan> what does ls -ld show?
<dogmatic69_> oh, its done it now
<dogmatic69_> thanks
<dogmatic69_> I thing it was just not umonted when I tried again
<dogmatic69_> now to figure out why the site is still not working :/
<maps|wrk> ello
<dogmatic69_> with cifs mount, is it possible to have some files executable?
<diddledan> dogmatic69_, cifs can expose permissions - how is left up to the user - windows share hosts need specific ACL entries e.g.
<dogmatic69_> well its a little NAS, not windows
<dogmatic69_> I was reading that it can either all be execute or not, is that true?
<diddledan> it depends on the implementation
<dogmatic69_> ok
<diddledan> cifs has a posix-compliant permissions model if it wants to use it
<diddledan> anyone know how to tell apt that a package is "installed" wihtout actually installing it?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-06
<shauno> that doesn't sound like a good idea
<shauno> this is workable, http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/
<shauno> but "danger, will robinson" etc
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm these Digital Ocean VPSs seem cheap
<daftykins> anyone given them a whirl?
<Azelphur> daftykins: they come highly recommended in Django circles.
<Azelphur> I've seen a few people recommend them
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> 2TB data is a lot more than bigv's 300GB/mo
<daftykins> and $10 vs. Â£10
<daftykins> but which i may get next, i don't know :)
<daftykins> nn all \o
<Aalex> hi
<Aalex> How to install a WIFI driver and AMD graphic card driver??
<Aalex> In ubuntu 12.04??
<Aalex> hmm
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning
<mapps> watching 24 s9e1 :D
<Myrtti> they still make it?
<mapps> came back last night
<mapps> 2hr premiere
<MooDoo> yeah i've recorded it, not watched it.
<mapps> recorded?
<mapps> oh
<mapps> it aired at 1am on sky ?!
<mapps> i thought it waa a day late
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc
<MooDoo> people phoning in sick, day after bank hol....hmmmmmmmm
<MartijnVdS> well there is a flu going around
<MooDoo> http://ubuntu.technology/planet-ubuntu-technology/ - would this be of interest?
<bashrc> hangovers perhaps
<mapps> jacks having his worst day AGAIN
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> 4 one now? lol
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2621125/Sandwiches-skies-Melbourne-pop-restaurant-Jafflechutes-float-toasted-cheese-sandwiches-hungry-customers-parachute.html
<mapps> lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Homework Day - my boys will be thrilled!  :-D
<diddledan> allo allo
<MooDoo> howdy
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<MooDoo> no homework day?
<diddledan> I thought that was yesterday :-p
<foobarry> is that the same as no work from home day?
<diddledan> foobarry, I hope so
<diplo> Morning all
<vishnu> i dunno if this is the right place for help. but i need help urgently. I accidentally opted "erase everything" wile installing Ubuntu in MacBook via refit. forced shutdown immediately and my old ext partition is safe. need to get data out of it
<MooDoo> can you take the drive out and put it in a usb caddy then attach it to another machine?
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> What open source router firmware are people using these days?
<MooDoo> daubers: standard asus for me
<daubers> MooDoo: I want to do 3g failover, but routers with that in the standard firmware are $$$$$$
<MooDoo> oh right...
<daubers> Having said that, 3g contracts all appear to be rubbish
 * awilkins uses OpenWRT
<MartijnVdS> \o/ openwrt
<awilkins> But I'm using quite an old version because I have ancient, creaking router hardware from the previous decade
<awilkins> The new versions look much easier to configure
<MartijnVdS> Yeah the web interface is OK now
<MartijnVdS> though i still prefer vimming in /etc/config/*
<awilkins> Oh, yeah, I don't even install the web thing
<awilkins> Why waste RAM, flash, and open a potential security hole?
<diplo> daubers, we've used the Drayteks at work for dongle internet support
<diplo> Qorks quite well
<daubers> diplo: Ta, I shall have a look
<daubers> looks like my router might support it internally, but looks like my isp has disabled it
<daubers> wonder if I can re-enable it
<diddledan> isp routers don't usually support anything. at all.
<awilkins> Mum's supports dynamic DNS stuff
<awilkins> Not sure what else it does
<awilkins> My ISP router is in dumb modem mode though
<diddledan> dyndns no longer exists - it's dyn.com now and they don't do freebie dynamic names anymore
<awilkins> I changed to duckdns.org
<popey> Morning all
<awilkins> Dyndns killed off my account by doing that 30-day expiry thing on me
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: they stopped offering free accounts too
<MooDoo> awilkins: didn't you get the monthly email?
<daubers> Morning popey
<MooDoo> oh scrap that.
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, yeah, they stopped ages ago but I had a really old one grandfathered in ; I got the monthly emails but I missed one. And they just closed all the free accounts shortly afterwards anyway.
<diddledan> "popeypopeypopey aah aah aah aah"
<diddledan> (ruby ruby ruby clone)
<daubers> Hah magic :)
<MooDoo> It's a kind of magic!
<daubers> The web ui has it turned off, but its there in the telnet ui
<daubers> Just need to find a decent dongle/deal now
<diddledan> you have a telnet interface?
<diddledan> 1) that's oldskool, 2) securemuch?!
<daubers> diddledan: It's firewall locked to the lan, not the wan
<daubers> This is a home router :)
<daubers> diddledan: Pretty much all the thompson routers have one afaik
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> girls? where?!
 * diddledan tidies his hair
<DJones> !girls
<lubotu3> Girls exist on the internet. See http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/17/27 | http://www.xkcd.com/322/ | For more interesting reading: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
 * diddledan sucks in the belly
<DJones> diddledan: Breathe, your turning blue
<brobostigon> lol.
<diddledan> lol @ the xkcd
<awilkins> telnet, ew
<popey> yeah, dyndns did the same trick to me
<popey> now using afraid.org
<awilkins> Router only has SSH with PK auth
<awilkins> When it had password auth switched on it used to get constantly attacked
<awilkins> (I have to have the SSH daemon listen on the standard port because explaining to the networks team that you want a non-standard port opened on the firewall is like punching fog)
<diddledan> denyhosts
<awilkins> Yeah, I had fail2ban or something like it running on it for a while
<brobostigon> i use fail2ban.
<MartijnVdS> fail2ban is fun
<MartijnVdS> it can read apache logs too
<diddledan> I like how easy it is to lock yourself out
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: not if you use SSH with keys :)
<diplo> popey, I couldn't get afraid.org to update with ddclient, how do you update yours ?
<awilkins> It's actually pretty difficult if you're using SSH with PK auth
<brobostigon> and dovecot and loads of others.
<awilkins> Because the client checks your password rather than the server
<diddledan> *enters correct password* fail *enters alternative password* fail *enters correct password again* blocked *realise using wrong username*
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ~/.ssh/config + ssh keys FTW :)
<MartijnVdS> stuff like:
<MartijnVdS> Host home
<diddledan> yeah, ssh keys are awesome
<MartijnVdS>   HostName hostname_of_home_machine
<MartijnVdS>   User my_username_at_home
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> diplo: my DD-WRT router supports it.
<diplo> heh, I really must buy a decent router :)
<diddledan> bash scripting ftw: for i in *.jpg; do file=$(echo $i | cut -d. -f1); mv $i $file-bg.jpg; done
<shauno> why not just mv $i ${i/.jpg/-bg.jpg}   ?
<diddledan> o_O
<awilkins> why not just `rename 's/\.jpg/-bg\.jpg/' *.jpg  ?
<shauno> or ${i%.jpg}-bg.jpg if you're worried that .jpg might show up more than once in the filename.  but I prefer how readable the straight substitution is
<awilkins> !man rename
<awilkins> There's a perl script for rename in the default install AFAIK   `man rename`
<awilkins> And my regex above is wrong
<awilkins> Ok, no it isn't
<awilkins> Bah, regex
<shauno> I like bash's substitutions because I can use/abuse them everywhere
<awilkins> shauno, Thanks for teaching me a new trick, anyway
<shauno> there's a whole set of them, if you search for %% in the bash manpage it'll find them
<shauno> eg, ${i^} will capitalize $i, ${i^^} block-caps the whole thing, instead of trying to remember the only thing you ever use 'tr' for
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 'tr' isn't hard though.. tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M :)
<MartijnVdS> boom, crypto!
<diddledan> o_O
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that's rot13. Best crypto evar.
<diddledan> aah
<MartijnVdS> (every letter in the range "a-z" is mapped to the range "n-z, then a-m", i.e. the alphabet, rotated 13 letters :)
<BigRedS_> I don't think I've ever used tr for capitalisation, it's normally for converting between linebreaks and spaces
<shauno> tr [:upper:] [:lower:] is about all I remember ever using it for
<BigRedS_> ah, I don't recall ever having had to do that, actually
<DJones> Arghh, its Eurovision week agai
<DJones> n
<MooDoo> yay!!! eurovision party
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> MooDoo: Yay sleeping pills party
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello
 * MooDoo stabs davmor2 only because he's not see czajkows1i do it lately
 * diddledan stabs davmor2 only because he's jealous
<diddledan> when in rome
<MooDoo> hail davmor2
<diddledan> stab davmor2 !
<daubers> diddledan: Do as the snamor?
<MooDoo> !stab
<MooDoo> rats
<diddledan> daubers: snamor?
<MartijnVdS> â« mr stabby
<MartijnVdS> ?
<daubers> diddledan: When in emor do as the snamor
<diddledan> o_O
<daubers> diddledan: Red Dwarf reference fail :-(
<diddledan> oh, nodnol
<daubers> :)
<diddledan> I forget which country nodnol is in now
<davmor2> When in Rome, kill Caesar they were stabbed regularly right :)
<foobarry> has anyone been using copy.com in anger?
<foobarry> need to migrate my ubuntu one
<MartijnVdS> I prefer xcopy.exe
<foobarry> lolz
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: did you see the doge sponsored nascar?
<awilkins> I still use Dropbox because I have a free account with > 9GB space
<awilkins> And I only use about 3.5GB of it
<foobarry> copy.com gives 20GB with referral link
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I saw a picture.
<awilkins> What are the client programs like?
<foobarry> android and linux
<awilkins> Do they understand PAC scripts?
<foobarry> linux has a tray gui like dropbox/owncloud
<foobarry> awilkins: i dunno, what's a pac script
<awilkins> Proxy Auto Config : small javascript program that browsers use to work out whether to use a proxy and which one
<foobarry> not sure
<awilkins> My main gripe with Ubuntu One was that it just completely ignored your system proxy settings and didn't have a proxy settings panel of it's own
<awilkins> My main gripe with Dropbox is that it can't process a PAC script
<foobarry> box.net sucks as it has no client, and the sftp connect sucked
<foobarry> how would i tell the pac existability
<awilkins> Look in the proxy settings and see if it will accept a "proxy auto config URL" or summat
<awilkins> Like the "Automatic" setting in the OS does
<awilkins> I have one that works out whether I'm on the home network or the office network and configures browsers accordingly
<foobarry> proxy type auto detect
<foobarry> or u can specify
<awilkins> Auto Detect usually tries to get a PAC script from ... http://wpad/wpad.dat
<awilkins> It's an MS thing
<foobarry> i have options of auto/http/socks4/5/none
<foobarry> option of url, port and user/pass
<awilkins> Maybe no PAC script then
<awilkins> Is the client open-source?
<awilkins> Guess not, probably
<foobarry> appears not. seems to be a closed qt app
<brobostigon> is there something like androidify which will run on a normal computer insted of android?
<foobarry> maybe some flash sites
<foobarry> http://www.wiiplayable.com/playgame.php?gameid=157
<brobostigon> i shall have to install flash and try it.
<foobarry> my wife has a jury summons although she's a full time mum of 2 kids
<foobarry> anyone have experience with this? clearly not practical
<MooDoo> foobarry: https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/overview
<bashrc> someone got called to the jury?
<MooDoo> foobarry: basically I think she'll have to do it.
<foobarry> someone with very young children they are looking after and perhaps very elderly relatives and other onerous caring duties, or whose job would be severely affected and/or whose livelihood long-term could be jeopardised â such as the running of a small business â or someone who is ill. These people should make their circumstances known.
<diddledan> foobarry, they wouldn't have me. I'm aparently not suitable for jury service because I'm a nutjob
<bashrc> yes, under some circumstances I think you can get out of it
<popey> I've never been asked
<foobarry> 2 colleagues in a small office got asked in last few weeks
<foobarry> now my wife.
<foobarry> suspicious
<bashrc> I've never been called
<DJones> I got asked years ago, just wrote back and said that work committments that was planned and booked with clients for about 3 months ahead meant that I wouldn't be able to attend
<shauno> I had no idea the UK did that.  seems obvious in retrospect
<diddledan> shauno, no idea uk did jury service?
<shauno> correct
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/law/shortcuts/2013/feb/21/10-things-jurors-need-to-know :-D
<Myrtti> that's funny
<Myrtti> "Revel in the fact you are embedded in a live, anthropological experiment, which will expose the deep-held prejudices and life-affirming sensitivities of those around you in equal measure."
<bashrc> I suppose we could do away with juries and just have summary execution
<bashrc> witch hunts, maybe
<diddledan> judges a la dredd is the way forward
<bashrc> with the amount of data available on people, autopolicing is a scary possibility
<bashrc> i.e. no need for trial, it's all in the logs
<shauno> sounds like a win to me.  I'd trust the logs over my 'peers'
<ali1234> we need slap drones
<bashrc> I wouldn't trust the logs at all.  They can be easily changed
<bashrc> drones which go around slapping people?
<ali1234> pretty much
<bashrc> that would be amusing
<foobarry> i want the ability to punch people in the face over the phone
<foobarry> why is that not real thing yet
<ali1234> old school. i love how you said phone, not internet
<foobarry> phone seems more phyiscal
<foobarry> but delivering a punch via email is good too
<bashrc> delivered via XMPP
<foobarry> jabberwocky
<diddledan> xml messaging punch protocol?
<bashrc> jabberslap
<foobarry> can you ftp some lunch to me too
 * diddledan slaps bashrc with a wet trout
<shauno> heh, jabberslap I like .. xmppow!
<bashrc> :)
<diddledan> hungry
<diddledan> what can I eat?
<shauno> http://soylent.me/
<diddledan> shauno, but it's not green
<davmor2> diddledan: kippers are better they smell more
<MooDoo> smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast
<diddledan> surely it's "stoke me a clipper", no?
<MooDoo> don't think so, then again, not sure.
<davmor2> diddledan: no
<davmor2> MooDoo: you are rigth
<davmor2> right even
<davmor2> diddledan: I've definitely heard smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast.  It may be a play on stoke me a clipper though
<ali1234> The name "Stoke Me A Clipper" came from Ace Rimmer's  catch phrase, "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast", but  because of Rimmer's incompetence he says it wrong and it comes out as  the title.
<MooDoo> smoke me a kipper is from blackadder, flash by name and flash by nature, treat your woman like you treat your kite [plane] get in her 5 times a day and take her to heaven and back.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2g2ly3ssd97jyo0/IMG_20140506_143128.jpg
 * daftykins whistles
<diddledan_> pervert
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> time to grab a late lunch, then get registering all of these
<daftykins> my enclosure didn't arrive yet though ;_;
<MartijnVdS> initialize the RAID disk by disk
<MartijnVdS> then swap them like floppies
<MartijnVdS> "Please insert disk 4"
<MartijnVdS> "Please insert disk 6"
<MartijnVdS> "Please insert disk 2"
<MartijnVdS> "Please insert disk 3"
<daftykins> i feel compelled to see that sequence completed
<daftykins> ;D
<awilkins> "RAID corruption : REDO from start."
<popey> R: TAPE LOADING ERROR
<daftykins> popey: was memtest clean?
<popey> yup
<popey> switched back to chromium for a bit
<daftykins> ho-hum
<popey> indeed
<popey> gonna try chromium for a week, see if I get a crash
<daftykins> heh, a friend is headed to the isle of man for work, a taxi driver on the way up toward Manchester apparently told him he can bin his sunglasses 'cause he won't be needing them
<awilkins> Someone set the weather knob to "damn gorgeous" - reckless behaviour, there'll be none left at the weekend.
<daftykins> not seeing much over here
<Myrtti> https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64629 X-D
<xplora1a> does this apply to the python apps that are pie related?
<popey> mmmm pi
<popey> also pie
<daftykins> 1.5 pie
<diddledan_> -_-
<diddledan_> pie
<diddledan_> my nanna insists on calling things pies when they're clerely tarts
<diddledan_> clearly*
<diddledan_> https://gist.github.com/af1e70513ae295d1ae16.git \o/ for quick n dirty scripts
<diddledan_> in other news, how fast is my mirror? http://148.251.91.163/ubuntu-releases/
<diddledan_> it's lightning quick to load - but there isn't anyone accessing it
<shauno> 403'ing all the trusty isos probably keeps the load nice and low ;)
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> hmm, why are those 403?
<diddledan_> there we go. fixed
<shauno> that's better
<mapps> easy win eh
<mapps> 3-1 utd
<diddledan_> \o/?
<mapps> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-07
<mapps> hm quite a nice night
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> mapps: weather wise, or were you just out?
<mapps> weather wise
<mapps> seems ok
<daftykins> ah-har
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> ugh why am i always up gone 2 even when i intend to go early
<mapps> heh what time u need to be up
<daftykins> well i don't, but just daytime hours to feel sane :)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> whats ur work hous..whenever
<mapps> hours
<daftykins> whenever i like really yeah (:
<daftykins> sometimes i can be working on a laptop until late just because i want to
<mapps> thats ok then..self employed?
<daftykins> yarr
<MooDoo> moening all
<mapps> morning mate
<mapps> watched 24?
<MooDoo> mapps: no what I got was the pre show show, getting ep 1 and 2 now lol
<ujjain2> What is a good site to compare prices for IT equipments? e.g. monitors
<TheOpenSourcerer> In the UK ujjain2? I'd just look at about 4 suppliers: Scan, eBuyer, Amazon & CCL Online. One of them will probably be the cheapest anywhere at a particular point in time.
<ujjain2> ah ok, thanks!! :)
<MooDoo> you've also got novatech which is quite cheap as well :D
<mapps> h,
<mapps> MooDoo
<mapps> mug:D
<mapps> how didnt u get e1 nd 2 last night lol
<mapps> u watch e00?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fair point MooDoo. I was pricing up a new PC (components) for the kids last night. Didn't think of checking there.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I think I'm going to have to do that at some point, sick of the kids nicking my laptop :D
<MartijnVdS> Shuttle DS61 or DS81 + CPU + RAM is cheap too
<MartijnVdS> and tiny
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Just priced up from Novatech... About Â£15 more in total. Bizarrely Amazon is the cheapest but *only* because they have the cpu (core i5 4670) for about Â£15 less than anywhere else. But the rest of the bits (Mobo, case etc...) are cheapest at CCL Online - or they were last night ;-)
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo diplo
<diplo> Hows things TheOpenSourcerer ?
<mapps> morning diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> very good thanks. you?
<diplo> Not too bad thanks, hows business? Still keeping busy ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep. Pretty busy - new enquiries, lots of vtiger work still... would like to expand our OpenERP base a bit - think that will happen with V8 though. Got some really nice features for SMEs
<diplo> Great! Did you ever employ any new staff in the end ?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: interesting.
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: We tried but failed. Will probably have another go in Q3 I reckon.
<mapps> il work for u;p
<diplo> :/
<MooDoo> me too :D
<mapps> if its where i wanna live
<mapps> :P
<diplo> If only you were closer! :)
<MooDoo> I'll do remote support ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> mapps: Can you type in English?
<mapps> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<mapps> shockingly..i am english
<mapps> ;)
<MartijnVdS> English-ish
<mapps> GU1/GU21/GU24/SE1/SE15/SE16/SE21 :p
<mapps> anywhere near there?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh interesting. We are GU9
<TheOpenSourcerer> Farnham
<mapps> farnbrough?
<mapps> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> right next to each other :P
<mapps> about 26mins from me :P
<mapps> or where im from:) dont live there atm
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a nottingham branch ;)
<mapps> isnt popey from farnbrough TheOpenSourcerer? right in between both gu24 and gu9
<TheOpenSourcerer> mapps: yes.
<mapps> you must know of west end TheOpenSourcerer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Er, let me think about that...
<mapps> im from very near there.. Bisley :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> mapps: Yeah sure. I grew up in frimley - used to work at Bisley NRA as a kid. Butt marking.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I'll be your bestest friend ;) lol
<mapps> ahh nice
<mapps> hahaha thats what everyone did (except me at 16)
<mapps> you mean at pirbright?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah.
<mapps> yea
<mapps> isnt that a bit far from frimley
<mapps> i live right on queens road ..follow the road and you get to pirbright rifle ranges
<mapps> down the back roads:)
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I was ~13 - 15 I used to work most Saturdays & Sundays. the money was IMMENSE compared to anything else available.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Used to cycle. Only took about 45mins.
<mapps> Pirbright's quite nice tbh
<mapps> went to some pub/restaurant few months back near the green
<mapps> cant recall the name
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was a while ago mind. Not many cars around then ;-)
<mapps> thah the white hart
<mapps> just googled it
<mapps> heh
<mapps> I'm trying to get home access so i can move to a flat in Woking :)
<Myrtti> I'm a bit annoyed at myself. We finally installed the Beddit sensors underneath the mattress topper last night, D got a full nights data of his sleep, but I forgot I had a sleeptimer app that in addition of turning all the music and podcasts and audiobooks off, I had set up to turn bluetooth off :-(
<mapps> beddit sensors?
<Myrtti> http://www.beddit.com/
<diplo> 149 euros, bit steep for me
<Myrtti> yeah, we got them from the Indiegogo
<diplo> I really must keep an eye on kickstarter and indiegogo
<diplo> :)
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<popey> ujjain2: install Invisible Hand browser extension, that does the price comparisons for you â»
<mapps> going to xoyo next saturday
<mapps> :D
<ujjain2> popey, installed it, so far not seeing prices showing up, but checking it out, seems pretty cool
<popey> ujjain2: visit a page like www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004QBUL1C/
<popey> it will show up if there's other places that sell the same product
<ujjain2> ah ok, I don't see it hmm.
<popey> maybe it only shows if there are alternative suppliers
<ujjain2> ahhh,
<ujjain2> I found it
<ujjain2> you've found the lowest price, when I manually searched it on newegg.com
<ujjain2> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345
<popey> cool
<ujjain2> I like this extension
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy School Nurse Day! :-D
<popey> ujjain2: another fun website I discovered recently is camelcamelcamel. You feed it your amazon wishlist and it emails you when things on your list drop in price. You can set triggers and see graphs of the previous price of the items. It's great.
<ujjain2> amazon.co.uk doesn't have a service informing you of price drops on items on your wish list?
<Myrtti> save for later items it tells it
<popey> the nice thing about camelcamelcamel is it shows you a graph of the price of stuff, so you can see the lowest it's ever been
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> i love camel^3
<foobarry> see if ur getting ripped off
<foobarry> usually i'm ready to play a waiting game and set a price trigger for a few months time and forget about it
<ujjain2> the toe version is pretty good too.
<ujjain2> I've bookmarked camelcamelcamel.com
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sowixwdbtqwcpnn/IMG_20140507_110233.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7a0du2hssff6jna/arrays.png
<diplo> lots of disks daftykins !
<diplo> Wassat for ?
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAOY2AgY0w
<daftykins> just upgrading the ol' nag, diplo
<daftykins> personal storage
<MooDoo> daftykins: nag? or nas? ;)
<diplo> Blimey! That's a fair bit for home.. is that not a bit of a power drain for at home ?
<daftykins> MooDoo: ol' nag
<diplo> What are you running on it ?
<MooDoo> daftykins: what you using for the os?  ubuntu and doing it that way or using free nas, as it's something i want to build as well
<daftykins> diplo: the full system pulls 90W, with this new array in instead of my existing it'll cut power more
<daftykins> the pics answer that
<diplo> I wasn't sure if that was picked up from somewhere else
<MooDoo> ah windows
<diplo> Not to bad at all for all those drives daftykins
<daftykins> it also hosts Linux VMs though
<daftykins> which of course is hilarious since i have to restart the host OS more often than they themselves
<daftykins> in fact every time i've upgraded the storage i've actually increased capacity whilst reducing power consumption
<diddledan_> morning
<ali1234> diddledan_: okay here's a question for you: say i'm making a wp plugin that creates a database table that has a foreign key constraint on a core wordpress table. that means my table has to have the same engine type as the wordpress table. but since wordpress uses mysql's default, there's no way to know what that is. what am i supposed to do?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Write as much in the docs, and hope you don't get bug reports
<MartijnVdS> because PHP&MySL
<MartijnVdS> +q
<diddledan_> also use the default?
<ali1234> in this case my wp install predates mysql 5.5 so it uses myisam. i've now updated to 5.5 so when i create a table i get InnoDB by default, and the foreign key constrains fail
<diddledan_> or don't enforce the foreign key
<ali1234> and i just spent half an hour figuring this out
<ali1234> on a related note, should i convert my database to InnoDB, now that it is the default?
<daftykins> diddledan_: prepare yourself...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sowixwdbtqwcpnn/IMG_20140507_110233.jpg
 * diddledan_ drools
<daftykins> diddledan_: https://www.dropbox.com/s/46g06dzjalwq4s5/IMG_20140507_115546.jpg
<diddledan_> hmm, better keep me away from the leccytronics
<MartijnVdS> eww, discrete graphics :P
<daftykins> this is back in the day of LGA775!
<daftykins> ugh 11% initialised in like 2.5hrs
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah no 1.75hrs
<Saur0> hi i'm a mail noob and i'm trying to set up postfix on 14.04, i'm able to send mail out but its coming from user@server.domain.net
<Saur0> how do get it to come from user@domain.net
<shauno> grep for 'myorigin' in /etc/postfix/ - on mine it's using the contents of /etc/mailname, but I can't promise that hasn't changed (I'm on 10.04 heh)
<Saur0> hmm weird my says myorigin = /etc/mailname
<Saur0> /etc/mailname = mail.domain.net
<daftykins> should it not just be domain.net then?
<shauno> they should be coming from user@mail.domain.net then ?
<directhex> dpkg-reconfigure -plow postfix
<Saur0> yeah that what i thought but they are coming from user@server.domain.net
<Saur0> I changed it to domain.net in /etc/mailname and it is still coming from user@server.domain.net
<bashrc> I didn't have much luck with postfix.  I use exim
<shauno> I didn't have much luck with exim, I use postfix ;)
<bashrc> :)
<Saur0> haha well i'm not having much luck with anything at the moment :(
<bashrc> I do have instructions for setting up email MTA on debian 7, if that's any help
<shauno> curious, what's generating the mail?  php perchance?
<awilkins> I just use bsd-mailx
<awilkins> And forward mail to the SMTP server our ICT dept. provide...
<shauno> heh, reminds me of so many error messages that tell you to "contact your administrator".  for my mail .. that's me
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and he's never in the mood!
<Saur0> ah ok I just just the mail command and it worke d
<shauno> good chance whatever's creating the emails is creating a From address then, which postfix will obey if they're in 'mynetworks' (which includes localhost)
<bashrc> MTAs always seem to have a really complex routing system
<Saur0> now i've just got to work out how to recive mail ;)
<diddledan_> open port 25, boom.
<bashrc> 465
<diddledan_> caveat: you may be opening a relay
<Saur0> haha i'm using no-ip
<shauno> eek
<diddledan_> bashrc: afaik incoming email still uses 25 for most purposes
<bashrc> yes probably a good idea to keep that open
<diddledan_> bashrc: it's rare that 465 is used unless specifically configured
<shauno> ssmtp is kinda rare.  most just hit 25 and try to do starttls
<bashrc> my particular setup http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.15
<MartijnVdS> shauno: port 25 is only for other mail daemons, you should use 587 (submission) from clients to your SMTP server
<shauno> right, he's talking about receiving
<Saur0_> ok any ideas why I might be getting relay access denided
<diddledan_> that depends on context - who were you sending to and from where?
<Saur0_> i'm sending from a gmail account to my server
<Saur0_> I am able to send out
<MartijnVdS> your server doesn't think it's the final destination for the email gmail puts into it
<diddledan_> the recipient doesn't exist then
<diddledan_> yeah, what MartijnVdS said
<Saur0_> and when I reply to the message i get that message
<Saur0_> sorry i don't understand
<Saur0_> why would that be?
<MartijnVdS> Saur0_: gmail says "Here's a message for x@y.com", your mail server says "y.com? That's not me, and I'm not forwarding it for you."
<Saur0_> ok but why would it do that when it is sending the mail from user@domain.net and google is sending the mail to user@domain.net
<Saur0_> ah found it
<Saur0_> the mydestination was incorect in main.cf
<Saur0_> cool thats postfix now whats this dovecot all about ;)
<BigRedS_> have you got smtp auth set up?
<Saur0_> not that I know of
<Saur0_> i'm just learning
<BigRedS_> is the objective of all this to end up with a working mail system or to learn about them? You'll *probably* want Postfix and Dovecot to agree on which mailboxes exist and who may access them
<Saur0_> yeah thats that plan
<BigRedS_> I've got a script that installs a complete postfixadmin system (postfix, dovecot, mysql, virtual mailboxes) fairly crudely. But it doesn't explain what it does
<BigRedS_> https://github.com/BigRedS/postfixadmin-installer
<Saur0_> well i've already got postfix mysql set up
<Saur0_> dovecot is installed but I havn't done any config
<BigRedS_> what's postfix using mysql for?
<Saur0_> its not but other stuff is
<BigRedS_> okay,well, if you want to hand-do it but also have it work and you're using postfix, dovecot and mysql then a postfixadmin howto is probably what you want
<BigRedS_> then you get a web ui for adding/removing domains and mailboxes
<Saur0_> cool i'll check it out thanks
<MooDoo> pah I've just had a bird pooh on me :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's supposed to be good luck MooDoo :-D
<Saur0_> thats good luck
<Saur0_> :D
<MooDoo> pah to that
<TheOpenSourcerer> or poo even
<daftykins> 4hrs and this array is 25% built
<daftykins> good times
<MooDoo> daftykins: got to rebuild my 1tb mirror tonight, not as big as yours but it also does take forever!!!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> one of yours die?
<soon> I'm trying to install SolydXK to dualboot with my Ubuntu(KDE). I refuses to install into a regular partition -- some issue about wanting a fat32 fs for uefi ... my PC is a regular old fashioned BIOS system - I'm don't know much about that at all ...
<daftykins> EFI needs a small FAT partition
<daftykins> something is definitely confused
<soon> Will I need to create a separate FAT partition just for that?
<daftykins> however technically you'd want to ask solydxk for support, not us
<soon> true ... but this channel is alive :-)
<daftykins> =|
<daftykins> well can you at least say what your motherboard is?
<daftykins> soon
<soon> sorry .. back again
<soon> it is an ASUS P8P67 Evolution
<daftykins> it is EFI indeed
 * soon sighs
<daftykins> what i expect is your system has booted your installation media as UEFI, so what you can do is press whatever key it is (possibly F8) to get a one-time boot menu, then make sure to select your installation medium as legacy not EFI
<MartijnVdS> EFI is awesome
<soon> what eactly is EFI
<daftykins> the new BIOS! :)
<MartijnVdS> it's a replacement for the old (1970s tech) BIOS
<daftykins> with all kinds of fancy things like support for booting GPT volumes 3TB+
<MartijnVdS> with proper APIs and graphic mode boot, and lots of other coolness
<soon> ..oh, so my PC is not an old fashioned BIOS after all?
<daftykins> nope, from the asus website:
<daftykins> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67_WS_Revolution/
<daftykins> "EFI BIOS (EZ Mode) - Flexible & Easy BIOS Interface "
<MartijnVdS> well, lots of EFI implementations have a compatibility module to be able to load "legacy" OSes etc.
<soon> righty ho --
<daftykins> so use my trick to boot your installation medium as legacy instead of UEFI
<daftykins> typically, all boot devices are listed twice, once for each mode
<daftykins> the installer was asking for an EFI partition because it had booted in UEFI mode by the sounds
<soon> I'll give that a try
<daftykins> and that's all you'll get from me! ^_^
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: The Freaky Clown's response to your tweet is.. ironic?
<soon> thx daftykins
<daftykins> np
 * awilkins head-desks at the lovely PDF-printed-from-a-word-doc that the customer wants changed into a pipe-delimited text file
<awilkins> Especially super fun how copying the table from it puts each cell on one line, rather than each row
<Laney> tried pdftotext?
<barryoh> Hi, what package do I need to install to be able to use --target=i386-efi in this command: # grub-install --target=i386-efi --recheck --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=grub ( LINK:  bit.ly/1uAzIUg )
<daftykins> that link points to a blog post on installing an HP printer
<daftykins> nothing to do with anything EFI related 0o
<daftykins> yeah 32-bit installs with EFI, not cool
<barryoh> daftykins: oops... sorry I will change that
<barryoh> daftykins: http://astrofloyd.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/linux-only-installation-on-2006-macbook-using-refind/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<directhex> my wife has a P8P67-M PRO. definitely UEFI.
<directhex> pre-win8 UEFI though, so no secure boot.
<daftykins> possibly the finest kind ;D
<directhex> definitely 64-bit EFI though. boots win8.1
 * diddledan_ snogs effy
<diddledan_> what's wrong with a guy getting amorous with his computer?!
<shauno> a little late, but I imagine you're looking for http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/grub-efi-ia32 ?
<bashrc> diddledan: command line lurve
<daftykins> tainted love
<Saur0_> well after trying to impliment tls and sasl i've broked postfix/dovecote
<Saur0_> I can send out but recived incoming mail
<Saur0_> I get a rather handy "server configuration error" message in the logs
<Saur0_> and unknown smtpd restriction "\permit_sasl_authenticated"
<BigRedS_> you probably don't want that backslash
<BigRedS_> 'server configuration error' messages normally are followed by something more detailled; that's dovecot doing that?
<BigRedS_> you can turn the loglevel up which may help,
<BigRedS_> on a new server I tend to set auth_verbose and mail_debug to yes
<BigRedS_> see the bottom of this page for your other options: http://wiki1.dovecot.org/Logging
<Saur0_> postfix/smtpd[25885]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from mail-vc0-f178.google.com[209.85.220.178]: 451 4.3.5 Server configuration error;
<BigRedS_> oh. Never seen postfix do that. But 'permit_sasl_authenticated' definitely doesn't want a backslash at the beginning of it
<BigRedS_> have you mis-pasted something with some escaped newlines or something?
<Saur0_> proably was following this -> http://ideasnet.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/ides-server-how-to-realize-a-mail-server-using-postfix-dovecotsquirremail-with-sasl-and-tls-authentication-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts-server-edition-part-1/
<BigRedS_> "realize a mail server"? eurgh
<daftykins> i second the disgust at that abuse of English
<Saur0_> haha yeah but it seemed to cover everything i needed
<daftykins> "Riccardo Magrini is a Network Engineer withing Business Unit..."
<BigRedS_> yeah, edit /etc/postfix/main.cf and remove that backslash from permit_sasl_authenticated
<BigRedS_> I don't know why he put it there
<Saur0_> to be fair I should have noticed that
<Saur0_> :/
<Saur0_> yeah now working again, thanks
<Saur0_> useful logging info
<kbingham> how does upstart determine what services there are ? I'm trying to get tftpd-hpa to run (on 14.04) I've done the obvious apt-get install, but /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa start gives /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa status
<kbingham>  * in.tftpd is not running
<kbingham> upstart doesn't know about it : start tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> start: Unknown job: tftpd-hpa
<daftykins> afaiui init scripts are old school, what about 'sudo service <that> status' ?
<kbingham> sudo service tftpd-hpa status
<kbingham> status: Unknown job: tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> but ... service --status-all |& grep tftp
<kbingham>  [ - ]  tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> hence my confusion ...
<daftykins> funky! ho-hum all beyond my experience level sadly
<daftykins> i'm sure someone else could comment, but what's the use of status commands when a process list shows it's running? :>
<kbingham> but its not running ...
<awilkins> Does [-] mean disabled?
<kbingham> yes - [+] would be running.
<awilkins> Lots of [?] as well
<smittix> now then
<awilkins> Shameless shilling alert : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/focus-fusion-empowertheworld--3
<awilkins> I have no affiliation with said project, but I would love to see them succeed... if Google was willing to entertain their project lead to come talk to them (in the same kind of slot they entertained Dr Bussard) ... maybe there's something in it
<corkey> corkey
<awilkins> Clearly he needed to go and find Bottletop Bill
<kbingham> ugh ... a reboot sorted the tftpd issues
<kbingham> but shouldn't have needed it :S
<shauno> ugh, I swear compactflash cards only exist to annoy me
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> what are they up to?
<daftykins> ooh my current song was appropriate
<daftykins> does it become a trouble maker? ~
<shauno> I have a little usb reader for them, and it's attainted sentience
<daftykins> uh-oh, RotM
<shauno> it shows up here there and everywhere.  until I need to write to one of these things.  and then it takes a vacation.
<daftykins> call me crazy... but you don't *mount* audio CDs do you? they've been helping this guy for like 2hrs in #ubuntu but i'm pretty sure he's just trying to do something that's not possible
<shauno> you don't.  although windows tricks you into thinking they have a filesystem, so people think you do
<shauno> while it's technically wrong, it helps to think of each track as a partition.  data CDs have one partition with a filesystem in it.  audio CDs have however many 'partitions' with wav data in them.  mixed-mode CDs have both
<shauno> this way mixed-mode CDs start to make sense, and it becomes much clearer that wav isn't a filesystem
<daftykins> *nod* just a table of contents instead
<daftykins> i just don't use a desktop Linux to have enough experience with such tasks
<shauno> well in my disasterous analogy, the ToC is just another type of partition map :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> last time I paid any attention, Sound Juicer was the gnome-y way to play/rip audio CDs
<shauno> but I'm the wrong person to ask.  I don't really use desktop linux either, and I've only bought one CD in the last 8 years  (because "can you sign my itunes" just doesn't work)
<daftykins> i buy CDs and rip to FLAC :)
<daftykins> then i never look at them again
<shauno> okay, because I can't find this card reader.  I'm instead emulating another computer so that I can write it's disk images, to stick in my disk emulator
<daftykins> what on earth, i've got a stuck process in Windows
<daftykins> it just. won't. die!
<shauno> use the fire!
<daftykins> i tried :(
<daftykins> "taskkill /F /IM pidgin.exe /T"
<daftykins> no go.
<shauno> don't most windows boxes have a button on the front for solving problems?
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> wow, i actually had to reset.
<Saur0_> ugh postfix is getting on my nerves now, I can't send mail to external domains (gmail.com) I keep getting 454 4.7.1 relay access denied message
<Saur0_> I can recive mail ok
<shauno> would it help if I tell you that's not a bad thing?
<Saur0_> well its secure and not spamming anyone
<shauno> bingo.  it's a safe default to start from :)
<shauno> but it does mean you've got more dovecot/sasl nonsense ahead of you
<Saur0_> yeah theres a fine line between security and usability
<shauno> eg, this bit; https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/postfix.html#postfix-smtp-authentication
<shauno> although there is a shortcut.  if you're only accepting mail from an internal network, you can add that network to 'mynetworks' to give them a free pass
<shauno> but if you want to be able to use it from outside your lan, you need to get smtp-auth working anyway, so you can skip the cheat
<Saur0_> I have webmin installed
<Saur0_> and can send mail out from the postfix modual
<Saur0_> but it has the wrong from address (user@server.domain.net)
<daftykins> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<shauno> to be honest, that's just going to get you in more trouble.  if you start mixing the right way to do it (the ubuntu docs), the wrong way to do it (webmin completely ignores how ubuntu/debian like to configure things), and random blog posts (who knows!), you'll end up with a mess that no-one understands
<Saur0_> yeah well i'm trying to avoid it
<shauno> I was trying to find a nice way to explain "burn it with fire", but avoid is a good start ;)
<daftykins> shauno: you may need to bring the next arsonists anonymous meeting forward again
<Saur0_> yeah fair enough but it doesn't change postfix issues
<safado> hi  all my fist time here, I'm not from uk. am I allowed to ask for help here?
<safado> anyone here?
<daftykins> safado: you sure can
<daftykins> not sure what attracts non-UK people to us over the main support channel though :D
<safado> because you all are attractive I suppose ;)
<safado> pls how do I pastebin ?
<safado> !safado | pastebin
<diddledan_> especially shauno , he's hawt
<diddledan_> :-p
<shauno> I really need to figure out how to stop this thing pinging me when it's you :p
<diddledan_> lol
<shauno> !pastebin | safado
<lubotu3> safado: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<shauno> (so close - you had the right idea)
<diddledan_> shauno, because I only ever mention your name when I'm being an ass?
<diddledan_> surely that's the best time to be pinged, no?
<safado> thx shauno. I love your discussion, really interesting and...promising... But I'm sad because of my problem now, any help? http://pastebin.com/xghuadHz
<shauno> you appear to have something that's replacing ' with "smart quotes"?
<safado> ï¿½
<safado> I don't understand
<shauno> before s/ and after /g, should just be a simple apostrophe
<safado> in terminal 14.04 LTS I put this: sudo sed --in-place 's/NoDisplay=true/NoDisplay=false/g' *.desktop
<safado> no error
<safado> then I put this to undo: sudo sed --in-place âs/NoDisplay=false/NoDisplay=true/gâ *.desktop
<diddledan_> ' is not the same as â or â
<shauno> right - the second one is using slightly different characters instead of '
<safado> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhI understand!
<safado> but
<safado> I have a foreign keyboard. Can I ask you the favour to write it down correct for me to copy/paste from the bin please?
<safado> is it too much to ask
<safado> I know
<shauno> from your own paste, the ones on line 2 are correct - you can just copy fromthere
<safado> am I dumb....
<shauno> I just tried to type them on an italian layout, and I couldn't find them either :/
<safado> I copied the command from a site I think us site
<shauno> yeah.  this happens.  some sites will try to automatically 'correct' them.  It's better grammatically, but sed doesn't know this
<shauno> I keep finding ones that replace a - (minus sign) with a long dash as well, which has similar effects
<safado> exatly what also happened, a dash instead of two --
<shauno> yes, that's the one
<safado> but as you see i corrected it, then I didn't see the '
<safado> you helped me
<safado> thanx
<safado> and still someone is asking why everyone from abroad comes here...
<shauno> flattery will get you everywhere ;)
<safado> to get help in a foreign language is not everywhere ;)
<safado> anytime you need a promo, I'm here
<safado> btw
<safado> to your judgement is it worth to delete the ubuntu partition of a w7 disk from win and then re-install it clean with the LiveDVD?
<safado> I don't like Wubi because slowly I'll quit windows
<shauno> now wubi I have no idea about :)
<safado> the windows installer for ubuntu
<daftykins> WUBI is a really, really really bad idea
<daftykins> and i think is unsupported now
<safado> that's whyI donÃ¬t like it
<safado> I have installed 14.04 but forgot to clic the two update cases, then i made the update too late because i forgot to sudo get-update
<safado> it's all a mess
<daftykins> i don't really follow
<safado> the mouse doesn't work properly that's too bad. I've seen it's a known bug with no solution for now. I'd like to go back to 12.04 clean
<daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" would keep any version up to date
<safado> is it exactly the same thing with Software Update window?
<safado> daftykins thx
<daftykins> mmm, it may be more of a "sudo apt-get upgrade" in Software Update, instead of a dist-upgrade
<daftykins> which is a minor difference really
<safado> do you know of any problem related to mouse AND java?
<safado> nothing like that on 12.04
<daftykins> not personally, but i have very limited desktop experience
<safado> ok
<safado> well thx daftykins thx shauno see u
<daftykins> g'bye
<shauno> now that it's safe to be off-topic .. I just found a racing game on my amiga called "ultimate skidmarks plus".  I'm not sure if that's a bold choice, or a poor choice.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> plot twist: it's a laundrette sim
<shauno> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZXpvhXPpd4
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> now seriously, i remember being blown away by the amigas
<daftykins> why did they disappear :(
<shauno> because commodore
<shauno> besides, most of what made the hardware special just .. isn't special anymore
<shauno> they always boasted that they used individual chips for major functions.  paula did audio, alice does video, etc
<shauno> that's perfectly normal now
<daftykins> but surely they had a fair lead, so it took PCs ages to catch up?
<daftykins> so they must have stagnated rather than innovated
<daftykins> or were they too expensive?
<shauno> the version of history I remember (may or may not be correct) was that commodore was so hell-bent on a successor to the c64 that they wasted what they'd bought
<daftykins> ah :(
<daftykins> a sort of, R&D sinkhole?
<daftykins> hmm, i chose a stripe size of 256KB on my new RAID
<daftykins> i wonder if that was wise vs. 64KB
<shauno> do the carry any overhead?
<shauno> *they
<daftykins> how do you mean? it's very relaxed storage that's written to infrequently
<shauno> I have no idea how raid works, but curious if there's any overhead to keeping track of stripes, etc
<daftykins> oic
<shauno> eg, if it keeps an index of them, a size that used to work well on 80gig disks would be a big big index on a 4tb disk
<daftykins> well it's a hardware controller
<shauno> well, at least you make me feel a little better about how long this miggy is taking to format 2GB
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah all told it's gonna be about 16hrs to have initialised a 6x2TB RAID5
<shauno> this is actually doing pretty well, considering when it was new the options were for 20MB or 40MB drives
<shauno> but I think I'm going to hit the hay and trust it'll be finished in the morning
<daftykins> :D my plan indeed
<daftykins> no point being awake to see "100%" tick over to "OK"
<daftykins> g'night sir \o
<shauno> night
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-08
<mapps> whos still around
<mapps> wonder if i could put my machine outside in a shed and itd be ok hmm
<daftykins> nah, moisture
<mapps> would it be enough to do damage?
<mapps> just its SO loud
<daftykins> what is it? 0o
<diddledan_> loud.
<mapps> old dell desktop
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> whee
<Myrtti> new Chrome works with Hangouts and Adobe Connect!
<Myrtti> what's the current opinion on ISP's, which has the best price/quality ratio?
<mapps> im on sky atm but got rubbish service
<mapps> who u with atm?
<Myrtti> TalkTalk Business and the speed has gone down the drain so badly we're looking at moving to fibre
<Myrtti> no idea what's causing it
<Myrtti> have tried all the tricks in the book
<mapps> ah if you can get fttc  yea ust do that
<mapps> i cant;(
<dwatkins> I'm about to switch from IDNet to PlusNet as the price is the same, but PlusNet don't cap you at 200 GB a month downloaded.
<Myrtti> the connection is so bad I feel like crying >____<
<popey> Myrtti: I'm on virgin cable. fine here. rarely goes out, and is pretty quick http://www.speedtest.net/result/3487854745.png
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Socks Day! :-D
<popey> \o/ I have no socks on!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<awilkins> Is it really No Socks Day?
<awilkins> So it is
<nigelb> Indeed. I'm not running today. I shall not be wearing socks.
 * jussi throws smelly socks at nigelb
<jussi> and its way too cold in my house for no socks. sorry.
<nigelb> It's warm and mildly rainy here :)
<awilkins> I can't believe I drove 50 miles for this shit
<awilkins> OOps, apologies
<awilkins> For any youths watching - that is a bad word and should not be repeated in polite company
<awilkins> popey, I'm going to have to light a rocket under Virgin's butt... I only get about 25Mbit/s on my allegedly 60Mbit/s line
<awilkins> Supposed to be upgraded to 100Mbit/s here this year as well
<popey> mine was supposed to be next year
<popey> then suddenly my modem rebooted one day and it was faster
<awilkins> Have a feeling my wire may be poorly sick
<awilkins> My modem says 60Mbit/s but I only get 25Mbit/s
<awilkins> Maybe my impedance is off
<awilkins> Although the local router has a history of congestion
<awilkins> There was a time I was getting 150ms pings to the first hop because of all the little scrotes around where I live constantly torrenting things
<Myrtti> yeah no cable for us
<awilkins> VM sez : speed upgrade between Jan 2015 and June 1015
<awilkins> TBH I don't care about raw bandwidth
<awilkins> As long as I get consistent service and low pings, 25Mbit/s is totally enough for my needs
<awilkins> I used to be very happy with 512Kbit/s
<awilkins> If it's enough to get an OS ISO in less than 15 minutes, it's good enough
<awilkins> Can install most triple-A games in about 2-3 hours so it's all good.
<Myrtti> yeah there was a moment yesterday when I couldn't be in a Google Hangout and use Ryanair website at the same time
<Myrtti> and the Hangout is choppy
<awilkins> Knowing Ryanair, they probably wanted you to pay a supplement for extra server bandwidth
<Myrtti> their website is a lot better now than it was six months ago
 * awilkins pitches the idea of them getting people to pay for access to the new website
<foobarry> realised i no longer have a cap on my broadband
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> happiness is all of your esxi hosts in compliance with the host profile :)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: I'm on VM too, just wish their up-speed wasn't so poor.
<popey> meh
<popey> although, having said "meh", I could possibly move services back to home now it's fairly quick
<TwistedLucidity> It is really stable though, and (unofficial) static IP too.
<popey> yeah
<TwistedLucidity> You running off their SuperFlub, or just using that as a modem?
<Laney> looking at moving currently and the lack of fast broadband turned me off a place I otherwise liked :(
<TwistedLucidity> When I next move, I'll be dropping down to 7Mbps - and that's in a major city
<TwistedLucidity> There's cable past the entrance to the street, but NTL didn't run the cable *into* the street. So whilst it is all around, I can't get any.
<Laney> yep
<Laney> they've not run cable to new build estates in nottm, and fttc/p generally hasn't rolled out either
<TwistedLucidity> You in Notts then?
<Laney> ya
<popey> i have a netgear device behind my modem
<popey> modem is in "modem only" mode
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: Come along to Notts LUG!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I heard they were quite ... beery
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Snap - although mine's a Buffalo unit. It's great to have a router that actually does stuff.
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: And what's wrong with that?
 * TwistedLucidity falls over
<ujjain2> I have sdb,sdc,sdd but no sda, does that mean this drive is not connected? there is no /dev/sda, just 3
<davmor2> Morning all
<nigelb> Hello davmor2
<davmor2> Todays tune stuck in my head is the 2cellos version of viva la vida from clodplay iirc
<davmor2> nigelb: how do chap long time no see
<foobarry> davmor2: i have hamza, abu hamza (to the tune of hands up baby hands up )
<foobarry> :S
<davmor2> foobarry: hooks up surely
<nigelb> davmor2: I'm good :)
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<foobarry> doctor asked for a poo sample to check for h. pylori
<foobarry> taken me 6 weeks to sync up a morning dump with my wife going into town shortly after :S
<foobarry> anyway, not a pleasant process in all
<nigelb> TMI.
<foobarry> no really, i could give a lot more
<foobarry> ..
<foobarry> but i wont
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37zPu-hCy3I  now everyone can share in the tune in my head
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<nigelb> davmor2: How have you been?
<jussi> davmor2: thats a rather nice recital
<davmor2> nigelb: I'm a bit meh at the minute
<MooDoo> we're all a bit meh at the moment.
<jussi> me also
<jussi> mind, I watched Achmed this morning, apparently he has a son... :D (yes, Jeff Dunham is funny)
<hoover> Hi folks
<MooDoo> hello hoover
<hoover> BRB, lunchtime
<Ahmed412> hi all , i'm looking for some guidance
<Ahmed412> who is welling to help?
<dwatkins> Ahmed412: please describe the problem, someone may be able to offer assistance
<Ahmed412> its not a problem
<dwatkins> perhaps you could elaborate
<Ahmed412> I want to run virtualbox application under any linux
<dwatkins> "any" linux?
<TwistedLucidity> Ahmed412: Goto VirtualBox webiste, download (you'll get the latest version from there, your repos may be old), follow install guide
<Ahmed412> sorry
<Ahmed412> yes i know , what i 'm looking for is the most lite linux version that can run virtual box
<Ahmed412> so the original system doesn't take many resources
<Ahmed412> so what do you suggest for most lite linux system?
<diplo> You can run Virtualbox via the CLI, or use KVM/Qemu ?
<Ahmed412> is CLI or KVM/Qemu an operating system ?
<TwistedLucidity> CLI - Command Line Interface
<TwistedLucidity> KVM - Kernel Virtualisation Module
<Ahmed412> no i'm looking for the most unix linux ubunt distro that can run virtual box
<Ahmed412> sorry the most lite distro
<Ahmed412> so the pc resuorces doesn't waste between the host & guest systems
<diplo> http://lubuntu.net/ or something like that will be lowest on resources, should be fine running virtual box
<diplo> The thing is with the lighter distros you lose some functionality etc
<Ahmed412> yes something like that will be lowest on resources
<diplo> http://xubuntu.org/
<diplo> Or that
<Ahmed412> functionality is not my goal
<Ahmed412> i will only use it to run virtual box or any virtualizing application
<Ahmed412> all ubuntu family is not that lite i need
<diplo> Well if you are only wanting to virtualise stuff why not just run a server ? Won't have any of the desktop resources running
<foobarry> spontaneous pc reboot while plugging in my usb mouse
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: replace that mouse / check your psu!
<foobarry> maybe static?
<SuperEngineer> errrmmm..... nah
<foobarry> scrape shoes on carpet, mouse touches the metal of my hdmi port, causes reboot
<SuperEngineer> now you say :D
<Ahmed412> thanks looks great idea
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: connect pc to lightning conducter... just as effective ;)
<Ahmed412> diplo: could you suggest me a server distro
<SuperEngineer> cough... Ubuntu... cough
<TwistedLucidity> Ahmed412: I use Ubuntu Server with KVM. Works well.
<TwistedLucidity> I use VirtMan on a client to control the Guests
<diplo> Well as SuperEngineer so eloquently put it and now TwistedLucidity youre in a Ubuntu channel so better advise that :)
<diplo> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I am advising Ubuntu as it is easy to set-up and there are pretty good docs; seems to me that Ahmed412 will need those (given they needed to query CLI and KVM)
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<TwistedLucidity> Ahmed412: If you are totally new to virtualisation, run VirtualBox on a desktop first. Get an understanding what is going on.
<TwistedLucidity> Ahmed412: Then worry about KVM etc.
<Ahmed412> i know virtualizing but on windows
 * SuperEngineer screams in fear
<Ahmed412> what i'm trying to do is to run specific applications on virtualized windows under unix
<Ahmed412> as wine doesn't compatiple with this application
<SuperEngineer> Ahmed412: have you checked on WineHQ for any help in getting it to run
<SuperEngineer> http://www.winehq.org/
<Laney> slow club on 6 music currently â¥
<Ahmed412> thanks guys for your advices & support, bye
<SuperEngineer> Thinking of virtualbox... downloaded Tails yesterday... just fired it up in VirtualBox.
<SuperEngineer> It  evens detects & warns you that you are using virtual machine & therefore underlying opsys *will* know about the stuff it hopes to keep private.  Impressed.
<SuperEngineer> [Tails = "The Amnesiac Incognito Live System"] Tails is much easier to say ;)
<hoover> back
<NET||abuse> I want to figure out a nice way to track my daily expenses, i've a little app on my phone, "Smart Receipts" But i've got sainsburies receipts that hav ethe date on the back, and i can only attach one image to the receipts entry
<NET||abuse> What the bloody hell sainsburries.
<bashrc> NET||abuse: https://github.com/bashrc/fin
<NET||abuse> hehe,
<NET||abuse> I wasn going to start by just using my phone to photograph my receipts. And this smart receipts app isn't tied to any online service, so i can tie in the data to whatever i want to use.
<NET||abuse> so my problem is, how to deal with receipts like sainsburries.
<NET||abuse> the app itself isn't the sisue
<NET||abuse> well, personal finances are grand, i need expese tracking and small company accounts stuff.. was going to start a go-lang project.
<diddledan_> golang is funky
<NET||abuse> diddledan_: yeh, i've built a couple little basic tools for myself in it, just really digging into the net/http or mux wrappers for it to start doing web apps now
<diddledan_> even more funky is: https://github.com/gopherjs/gopherjs
<NET||abuse> and have to work on database stuff next,, for finance mangement, i think rdbms is the best option, so mysql is the obvious choice as that's what i know best, but i was wondering what would a non sql based db offer for finance.
<NET||abuse> diddledan_: oh god, more transcody fun, that stuff melts my head.
<NET||abuse> saw some talks in go group about llvm and transcompiling to other things or from js to golang
<TwistedLucidity> NET||abuse: Careful of trying to solve and problem that is already (or mostly) solved. There's a glut of expenses management applications around. Most based on double-entry.
<TwistedLucidity> It might be better to find one that is close and extend that.
<TwistedLucidity> Unless you're doing it for pure interest/learning of course; in which case, have at it.
<NET||abuse> :( but then i dont get to bitch and moan how hard it is to code something like that from scratch
<NET||abuse> :) half the fun is in doing it myself even if i spend a month or two at it in spare time only to abandon it later.. ultimately a good learning experience for go coding
<TwistedLucidity> GNUCash and jGnash are beasts. One of them should do it.
<TwistedLucidity> There's a KDE one too I think, name escapes me just now.
<TwistedLucidity> And a CLI one that's meant to be really powerful (i.e. scriptable). Name also escapes me.
<TwistedLucidity> I used to download my account statements as a CSV, sanitise them (for names, labels etc) and then load them into jGnash.
<NET||abuse> there was that personal finances one mentioned earlier, fin
<TwistedLucidity> It could recognise names and knew which account they should go into.
<TwistedLucidity> No matter how much I polished it, the answer was always the same: You're broke, sunshine.
<TwistedLucidity> :(
<NET||abuse> wxbanker clipf kmymoney skrooge
<NET||abuse> hehe, apt-cache search is fun
<TwistedLucidity> Skrooge! That were it
<bashrc> when I started keeping track of expenses I looked at GNUcash and it looked much too complex for what I needed
<davmor2> NET||abuse: if you are on Trusty just use apt search :)
<bashrc> fin is also scriptable.  you can stick it into .bashrc to tell you how little cash you have remaining
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: GNUcash is the equivalent of...thingy on Windows. It is rather complex because it is the sledgehammer for your personal finances walnut. It's really intended for business use AIUI.
<TwistedLucidity> Quciken.
<bashrc> yes that was my impression
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: That would be depressing.
<davmor2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7416357/
<TwistedLucidity> tl@foo -Â£1234.56 :~$
<awilkins> Wonder if org-mode has a personal finances mangler...
<awilkins> Does everything else...
<awilkins> (except being usable from a decent text editor...)
<bashrc> I'm not sure.  org-mode does a lot of stuff
<bashrc> you can also make tables and use it like a spreadsheet
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: have a look on libreoffice.org and openoffice.org they have some good personal finance templates for spreadsheets
<foobarry> the call log on my android is now empty :-|
<foobarry> i didn't do anything
<davmor2> foobarry: you called wipe_my_phone.com didn't you :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Cool. Thanks. I quite liked Skrooge when I looked, but don't have time to do everything at the moment. Evenings are rammed. :-(
<NET||abuse> davmor2: really? ooh, scary changes.. i'm on 13.10 right now
<NET||abuse> not jumped yet
<davmor2> NET||abuse: Apt 1.0 on trusty, it lacks auto complete but everything else about it is nicer
<directhex> ali1234, was it you who documented a process for doing uefi secure boot in ovmf?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but using windows tools
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/playing-with-uefi-secure-boot-part-1-ovmf/
<directhex> ali1234, did you sign a kernel+initrd?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> only uefi "hello world"
<directhex> damn, must've been someone else
<darrenr> fsdf
<Richard> hard
<diddledan_> must resist family unfriendly comment
<daftykins> diddledan_: ;)
<daftykins> i think it may be a curry night
<daftykins> Liberation Day tomorrow!
<shauno> bit of a bummer that the UK doesn't do anything for VE day :/
<daftykins> that *is* a surprise
<shauno> I know!  I mean, we earned it.  and it's a pretty epic excuse for having 3 bank holiday weekends in a row
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> this coming Monday isn't one as well is it?
<daftykins> presumably not based on my phone
<shauno> nope :(
<daftykins> ok time to nip down the curry house
<daftykins> i'd try a restaurant tonight but i can't be bothered to fix my dishevelled (sp) appearance in order to attend :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/05gdoiywpuqzxj7/storage.png
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-09
<mapps> mornngall
<mapps> *morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> hey
<mapps> check this http://www.binarypilot.co/ ..total nonsense i get that popup like 2x a week lol..
<mapps> they sure put some effort into these dumb things..but who the hell falls for it
<MooDoo> lots probably
<mapps> lol
<mapps> its just so stupid
<MooDoo> I was watching the news last night about people being duped out of life savings on some website.....sigh
<mapps> baffling eh
<MooDoo> yeah, I still think education is needed.
<mapps> there's that 24year old in court for fraud took millions of money on some ponzi scheme promising big returns lol
<mapps> blew 200k in some fancy club in one night..200k of others money
<mapps> turned out he worked as a catering assistant nothing to do with finance whatsoever
<mapps> but greedy people see 500% return..woah
<MooDoo> sigh
<jussi>  people are so greedy...
<MooDoo> yup
<bashrc> http://www.commitstrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Strip-Vision-Open-source-650-finalenglish.jpg
<MartijnVdS> how true..
<MartijnVdS> except the top pic is a bit like the company I work at (which releases the software under EUPL)
<bashrc> yes its also like the company I'm working at
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/05/four-weeks-on-huge-swaths-of-the-internet-remain-vulnerable-to-heartbleed/
<MartijnVdS>  http://www.estofex.org/cgi-bin/polygon/showforecast.cgi?text=yes&fcstfile=2014051006_201405082031_1_stormforecast.xml
<popey> morning all
<popey> MooDoo: http://ubuntu.technology what's that 1.888 phone number at the top?
<MooDoo> popey: oh that shouldn't be there, thanks i'll get it removed.
<popey> k
<MooDoo> popey: should of gone now, sorry about that
<popey> cool
<Myrtti> popey: eh: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140507/04102327144/us-patent-office-grants-photography-against-white-background-patent-to-amazon.shtml
<nigelb> what.
<popey> Myrtti: heh â»
<MooDoo> omg how stupid
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Lost Sock Memorial Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: There's a special day for everything...
<nigelb> Tomorrow should be the day for celebrating all special days.
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I think it follows on from yesterday's No Socks Day. ;)
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: so meta :)
<JamesTait> nigelb, I like it!
<nigelb> :D
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: So, it'll be called Meta Day?
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: probably
<TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: the USPTO are a complete bunch of numpties. It would appear you can patent *anything* in the US.
<Myrtti> indeed
<MooDoo> so my friend who works at the concert hall here in nottingham has to explain to a patron who was waiting by the stage door that elvis was in fact deceased so there is no point in waiting for an autograph!
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Whut?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yeah exactly
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Elvis isn't dead, he just went home.
<popey> Uh-huh.
<MooDoo> lol
<nigelb> TwistedLucidity++
<nigelb> MIB â¥
<dwatkins> To live with E.T. ?
<Laney> 15MB/s downloading an ubuntu iso
<Laney> did I get upgraded without knowing it?!
<Laney> hmm maybe I did know about it but just forgot
<Laney> 120 rings a bell
<ujjain2> Does the bank hvae to know your NI number?\
<ujjain2> Does the bank hvae to know your NI number?
<mapps> no
<mapps> odd question to ask though
<mapps> but , no..i signed up for a new barclays current ac few weeks back and they never asked
<diddledan_> http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/wonder1.jpg
<diddledan_> yup
<diddledan_> thor3 ftw
<ali1234> *horse-ninja ftw
<diddledan_> wtf?
<dwatkins> Thor 4, the next generation... http://i.imgur.com/4sNxI3T.jpg
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<foobarry> could a defective pixel on a screen been caused by phyiscal shock?
<foobarry> i.e. if the laptop was dropped upon delivery
<ali1234> theoretically, sure
<ali1234> it is incredibly unlikely though
<ali1234> they are usually caused during the manufacturing process
<foobarry> the laptop was dropped on delivery
<foobarry> that fact is establshed
<ali1234> physical damage is more likely to kill an entire row or column of pixels
<MooDoo> hmmm it could of caused the damaage, you just don't know
<foobarry> can iptables use -m multiport -p tcp --dport 443,22 -p udp --dport 123,161 -p icmp --icmp-type echo-request all on oneline?
<MartijnVdS> I don't think you can do UDP + TCP on line line like that
<awilkins> foobarry, Probably not... dead pixels usually a manufacturing defect
<awilkins> foobarry, Sometimes you can massage them back into life
<awilkins> I've been really lucky with them I think, I've got 1 on all the screens I use, and that's a crappy old Dell 1280x1024  4:3 corporate dronebox screen
<awilkins> Have had a whole screen die though
<foobarry> i got a werid streak of dead ones appear one week before my 3yr warrany came up
<foobarry> got a new screen and hinge \o/
<awilkins> Not buying Viewsonic again
<awilkins> It was nothing but trouble
<awilkins> Had to have it replaced under warranty (twice, I think) because the EDID kept blanking out so nothing would drive it at the right resolution
<MartijnVdS> I only buy Dell screens
<awilkins> And then it just gave up the ghost
<awilkins> I used to swear by Iiyama
<foobarry> we've had 100s of dell screens in our workplace, very good lifetime
<awilkins> But I think that's a CRT-centric opinion and I don't think it necessarily holds true for LCD panels
<awilkins> I have an Asus for my primary panel now, one of the fancy 3D enabled beaties
<awilkins> beasties
<awilkins> 1920x1080 is nice, but I still miss screens with 1200 or more vertical pixels
<awilkins> I had a 1600x1200 15" panel on my laptop .... 15 years ago
<awilkins> Stupid TV industry
<awilkins> At least the 4k revolution will be good for something
<awilkins> Catching up to where we should have been a decade ago... GERROFF MY LAWN
<foobarry> my sister offered me her old lcd tv
<foobarry> might actually get a tv with a modern socket
<foobarry> now what to buy to go with it...chromecast? rasp pi?
<Myrtti> if you consider rasp pi as a complete computer, I'd recommend chromecast for pure tv usage
<Myrtti> I find it easier to search stuff on my mobile and casting them to the tv rather than whipping out the keyboard and doing the Youtube/Plex search on the mac mini we've got hooked up
<Myrtti> obviously YMMV
<foobarry> thats helpful
<foobarry> what can you cast?
<foobarry> iplayer, youtube, browser?
<Myrtti> plex, youtube, bbc iplayer is what we use
<foobarry> mainly for vid content?
<Myrtti> yeah. Music too if you've got stuff in Google Play Music
<foobarry> i do
<Myrtti> oh, and Doggcatcher. It's not brilliant yet but it's sufficient
<Myrtti> netflix if we had it, BT sport if we were interested enough to have it
<Myrtti> Google Movies/TV is fairly reasonably priced
<jussi> there are plugins for the browser for just about any web video, aside fom flash
<jussi> foobarry: ^^
<jussi> and if you have media on your device, there are many progams that support castign ofr normal media playback
<foobarry> GPU lockups make foobarry sad
<foobarry> nouveau meh
<foobarry> my wife buys dvds
<foobarry> i'm sure its cheaper to stream since she rarely watches more than once
<foobarry> actually she watches it on her own
<foobarry> then we watch it together a little time later :S
<foobarry> if its not a chick flick
<jussi> foobarry: just admit it, you watch the chickflicks together
<foobarry> nevr!
<foobarry> she wouldn't enjoy it if i was there
<popey> can't remember the last dvd I bought
<foobarry> the hobbit pt2
<foobarry> before that, was gravity
<foobarry> we lent it to parents in law etc too
<popey> there's a hobbit pt 2?
<popey> I liked gravity, watched that twice
<Myrtti> sure, and there'll be pt 3
<davmor2> popey: there are going to be 3 parts to the hobbit by the look of it
<jussi> I note netflix still doesnt have shawshank redemption :P
<popey> jussi: uk has it
<jussi> crap, netflix price just went up...
<popey> not for me for 2 years â»
<jussi> yeah yeah
<MartijnVdS> early adopter bonus
<MartijnVdS> Mine is going up in 2 years as well
<jussi> I have to make a decision whether I use it enough to keep it...
<jussi> Im still in my trial...
<MooDoo> jussi: i signed up the other day then my kids discovered it
<popey> my whole family use it
<popey> chromecast, iphone, android...
<jussi> I just dont actually watch that much tele...
<awilkins> Watch Netflix more than broadcast TV now
<awilkins> And I have a MythTV box so my TV watching pattern was pretty much on-demand anyway
<awilkins> CAn't even be bothered to check the broadcast schedule for things to record now
<awilkins> Things that I had scheduled already get the occasional watching binge
<popey> I watch a fair amount of netflix and youtube, and a bit of recorded telly - The Daily Show
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> amazon won't let me buy an mp3 album unless i setup one click
<foobarry> thats new.
<foobarry> ugh. have to add to mp3 basket
<foobarry> weird
<TwistedLucidity> Buy elsewhere?
<TwistedLucidity> Or buy CD and rip at home
<foobarry> at Â£2.99 for the album?
<foobarry> or 9.99 for cd
<TwistedLucidity> play.com used to be able to beat Amazon on many thing, not sure if that's still true.
<foobarry> this is why hmv died
<TwistedLucidity> And there's awlays iTunes. :-)
<foobarry> play.com is no longer real
<foobarry> itunes is not viable
<TwistedLucidity> I knew it had changed
<foobarry> its play.google or amazons
<TwistedLucidity> Hmmm....smell the freedom!
<awilkins> Yeah, I still check the CD prices because i) they are often cheaper ii) you get a hardcopy that isn't compressed
<foobarry> freedom comes at a cost
<foobarry> everyone has a price
<awilkins> play.com is fubar since they ditched the Jersey loophole
<davmor2> foobarry: 7 digital
<awilkins> I really liked AllOfMp3.com
<awilkins> Ok, they were the Russian Mafia
<awilkins> But they gave a good service
<TwistedLucidity> And with a CD you sometimes get a free gift (a rootkit :-S)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: some CDs come with bonus material to download
<shauno> hah, yeah - the russian mafia weren't all that bad
<awilkins> Only get a rootkit if you stick it in a Winders box
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: For now, yes. I wouldn't put it past someone to try again. Why Sony was never punished escapes me.
<dvrr> hi.......  everyone
<foobarry> can someone remind me again pls...
<foobarry> subject alternate name..
<foobarry> hostname is blah-01.meh and the apache site is monkey.com
<foobarry> which one is the commonName? and which is the alt_name?
<directhex> generally cn=hostname and altname is DNS:websiteonthisserver,DNS:anotherwebsiteonthisserver
<foobarry> somebody with 2 votes says "The general rules for this: CN - put here your main URL (for compatiblity) SAN - put all your domain here, repeat the CN because its not in right place there, but its used for that..."
<foobarry> i'll go with directhex recommended config
<foobarry> ta
<directhex> apache expects cn=hostname
<directhex> it'll throw a warning (not an error) otherwise
<foobarry> that would be bad
<popey> item.ebay.com/291125433026
<popey> new ffos phone
 * bigcalm strokes his pretty new SGS5
 * popey strokes his old ffos phone
<dwatkins> popey: do you still have that picture of your cat sitting on your decoy keyboard, by any chance?
<popey> decoy?
<dwatkins> I seem to remember you had a second keyboard for the cat to sit on because it would always sit on your keyboard.
<popey> dont think i have a photo
<dwatkins> ah ok, no worries
<dwatkins> perhaps I dreamed it ;)
<popey> and he's not easily fooled!
<dwatkins> smart kitty
 * SuperEngineer imagines popey with a second keyboard - a.k.a. a cat bat ;)
<SuperEngineer> meeeoooooww [dopler effect required]
<daftykins> hmm not a penguin in sight
<shauno> man, I've scrubbed this mouse like it's contagious, and it's still too lumpy to play games with :/
<daftykins> D:
<mapps> evening
<mapps> a penguin daftykins?
<daftykins> heyup
<daftykins> yes, i thought he might be interested in some metrics as to my storage setup
<mapps> didnt have time for all my tv series before bed:D time for arrowin a bit
<daftykins> i'm copying the data from old to new now
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> sigh, people at the neighbours being rowdy.
<daftykins> ah good they're leaving
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> Liberation Day today, so noise is to be expected
<mapps> so hard to get to sleep
<mapps> didnt get to sleep till 11am
<mapps> :(
<mapps> hate lying there wanting to sleep..usually take a nytol but run out
<daftykins> D:
<mapps> annoying seeing the time tick away and no nearer to sleeping heh
<daftykins> worse for me, eyesights so bad i don't see any time display
<mapps> oh
<mapps> contacts?
<daftykins> nah only normal specs
<daftykins> gotta commit to reaching for those or blearily picking up a phone to read though ;)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> not interested in contacts at all?
<daftykins> i trialled them once but things were behaving a bit odd
<daftykins> then i had a lot of travel so wasn't at home to carry on
<daftykins> so i'd have to start from scratch again if i wanted to, not really keen on the ongoing cost though really
<mapps> ah i see
<mapps> u can get semi perm ones i thought?
<daftykins> true, but lol @ taking care of them
<daftykins> stumbling about in the night applying cleaning solution, haha
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> i'm one of the types that doesn't look right without specs too
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> Guernsey telco infrastructure is so bad, when there's a big event on, you can barely even get a call through ;)
<mapps> hah nice
<mapps> still on 33.6?
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> HSPA :>
<daftykins> for mobile data
<mapps> and ur dsl?
<daftykins> 40/5
<daftykins> that does fine really
<daftykins> no FUPs over here
<mapps> fup?
<ali1234> *fup fup fup*
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> fair usage policy
<daftykins> download caps and what-not
<mapps> ah course
<daftykins> though across the island there are those with atrocious internal property phone wiring
<daftykins> and they of course blame the ISP for receiving a poor service speed
<daftykins> hrmm TV is gonna be the last directory methinks
<daftykins> 3TB D:
<daftykins> "About 8 hours remaining"
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vks1f29f7apbjm6/2014-05-09%2020.37.14.jpg friend came over for the day, I think we have enough things. Also tesco crate abuse ftw
<Azelphur> well, for a few days*
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> lol is that a vertically bolted on radiator with 8 x 80/120mm fans?
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup
<daftykins> Azelphur: is she clocked to the extreme?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> 1.2ghz overclock on a generation 1 i7l
<daftykins> D:
<robotninja> nice :D I've just picked up an i7 860 from fleabay, tempted to try to crank a bit more out of it when I get a decent cooler
<daftykins> i run stock.
<daftykins> it's a happy life, i get to use it instead of constantly stress test and cry when it fails a 24hr prime95
<daftykins> or stress over stability as summer approaches :>
<diddledan_> or worry about warranty violations
 * diddledan_ violates
<robotninja> warranty? All I'm hoping for is that mine isn't stolen ;)
<diddledan_> sorry, family friendly
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> that's the only reason i phoned up amazon to check i could keep the 2TB HDD when they sent me it instead of a 1TB
<daftykins> didn't want the warranty to be forfeit
<Azelphur> daftykins: I haven't stress tested or prime95'd in...2 years?
<Azelphur> and, my CPU will stay very cool over summer, a stock cooler probably will struggle under load :)
<shauno> never had that problem .. we don't have summers :)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> bbl heading off to xbox, so might rematerialise on the lappy \o
<shauno> okay, there is seriously nothing more frustrating than cannonfodder with a dodgy mouse
<Armag3dd0n1> anyone from Birmingham?
<MattJ> Armag3dd0n1, you? :)
<Armag3dd0n1> you?
<Armag3dd0n1> sorry disconnected lol
<diddledan_> http://vimeo.com/94502406
<Armag3dd0n1> are we allowed to ask for help here?
<ali1234> yes
<Armag3dd0n1> can ANYONE help me tweak ubuntu 14.04 so I get the most out of my battery?
<Armag3dd0n1> im dying :/
<ali1234> not really. it depends very much on what hardware you have and what software you run
<Armag3dd0n1> ugh
<Armag3dd0n1> i've tried everything and failed lol
<ali1234> if you install lubuntu and lock the CPU to the lowest power mode then you will probably see a fairly large increase in battery life
<ali1234> of course, you'll have to put up with lubuntu
<Armag3dd0n1> what's lubuntu?
<Armag3dd0n1> sorry im new
<ali1234> a very basic desktop system
 * Armag3dd0n1 looks on google
<Armag3dd0n1> does it have a battery monitor?
<ali1234> probably
<Armag3dd0n1> probably?
<ali1234> yeah, i mean, everything has a battery monitor...
<Armag3dd0n1> i've only just install ubuntu 14.04
<Armag3dd0n1> can't i just add it on from terminal?
<ali1234> yess. it probably isn't what you want though
<Armag3dd0n1> i just want something to be good with my battery lol
<Armag3dd0n1> it's installing
<Armag3dd0n1> hope to god it works
<Armag3dd0n1> :/
<Armag3dd0n1> lubuntu doesn't have a power meter :/ ugh!!!
<diddledan_> o_O
<daftykins> yeah, i'm gonna avoid that guy
 * diddledan_ wanders off to turn the oven "on"
<daftykins> diddledan_: way ahead o' yer pal, i can hear the chicken kiev suffering right now
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> :-)
<daftykins> diddledan_: it's beeping!
<daftykins> well, the oven... not the chicken
<Jaffa_> mapserver
<daftykins> jaffa, cris!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-10
<mapps> mapserver!
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> Windows 7 shows higher infection rates than XP in last quarter of 2013
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<bashrc> morning
 * Laney zzzzzzzz
<MooDoo> hello all
<Armag3dd0n1> who's from Birmingham?
<MooDoo> Not me
<Armag3dd0n1> me either ;)
<Laney> who's not from birmingham
<Laney> ME
<MooDoo> me
<penguin42> me
 * penguin42 has been there once
<Laney> "oh god new street ARGH RUN AWAY" was my experience
<penguin42> haha yes
<penguin42> tbf outside of new street it's better
<robotninja> I haven't been back for a while, sadly - not to the city centre, at least. But most of it wasn't /that/ bad.
<robotninja> except for New St, aka Mordor Central.
<Armag3dd0n1> broke my ubuntu again :/
<ali1234> i bought system shock 2 on humble bundle. this game is a massive disappointment
<ali1234> deus ex is way better
<ali1234> cool, i found a bug in steam
<ali1234> if you idle a bunch of games in windowed mode to get the trading cards, when you actually get a trading card the notification window that pops up will crash all your games, steam, and dbus, all at once
<ali1234> and also /bin/sleep
<Saur0> hi what is the best way to remove packages?
<Saur0> i've used apt-get purge
<shauno> what's purge not doing that you expect it to?
<Saur0> just want to make sure there is nothing left behind
<Saur0> i'm having trouble configuring postfix
<Saur0> i've just purged it and going to start again
<shauno> purge will remove any config files that the package created.  it's difficult for apt to clean up things that it(/dpkg) didn't create
<Saur0> fair enough just wanted to check purge was the recomended way
<Saur0> hmm worked first time after reinatalling
<Saur0> when i run sudo apt-get install dovecot-imapd dovecot-pop3d I get errors
<Saur0> cannot creat /etc/dovecot/conf.d/20-pop3.conf
<Saur0> no such file
<Saur0> I don't think this is up todate --> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Dovecot
<Saur0> should the last bit still be added to dovecot.conf for thunderbird?
<mapps> yea some of community isnt i noticed too Saur0
<maps|wrk> o hai
<maps|wrk> pretty quiet here
<brobostigon> evening maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> evening brobostigon , upto much?
<brobostigon> avoiding a certain political european pop music contest.
<brobostigon> listening to the QI podcast insted, :)
<maps|wrk> hahahaha fair enough
<maps|wrk> ive not got it on either..cant stand it, awful rubbish
<maps|wrk> its like a joke really imo
<brobostigon> pretty much, yes, its all about politics than being any good, you could be the next queen, and still loose.
<maps|wrk> yep, most the songs are awful, i always tohught it was a joke, dont get why it gets such an auidence
<maps|wrk> has anyone ever gone on euvision and had a successful career after
<brobostigon> good question,
<robotninja> I think Abba scraped a few quid out of the years after they did it ;)
<shauno> I'm pretty convinced it's a drinking game, not a competition
<brobostigon> that would make it somewhat more enjoyable, not i support heavy drinking.
<shauno> one of my better, hazier memories of living with a bunch of erasmus students was eurovision.  and I use the term 'memory' losely
<brobostigon> i see, lol.
<shauno> I miss being young & stupid.   'just stupid' is nowhere near as catchy
<maps|wrk> haha
<brobostigon> its overrated.
<maps|wrk> agree
<maps|wrk> looks like austria got it sealed up
<maps|wrk> gsm
<brobostigon> atleast the uk are getting somwehere for once.
<maps|wrk> we did?:)
<maps|wrk> 40pts
<maps|wrk> lol
<brobostigon> yep
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<robotninja> morning
<brobostigon> morning robotninja
<ed__> ok guys, i have latest xubuntu on cf19 laptop with working sierra wireless 8780 3g /gps card but im not finding the nmea stream that should be on a virtual serial port. i think it should be a virtual tty device. works on xp
<ed__> hope im in the right place
<ed__> ok guys, i have latest xubuntu on cf19 laptop with working sierra wireless 8780 3g /gps card but im not finding the nmea stream that should be on a virtual serial port. i think it should be a virtual tty device. works on xp
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<brobostigon> just about*
<bigcalm> Blimey, I hadn't even taken notice of the time. It's earlier than I thought
<brobostigon> :)
<robotninja> Good news: tent has been taken out of the ikea bag I stuffed it in, checked over, and re-packed properly.
<robotninja> Bad news: I'm now too tired to go camping tomorrow.
 * penguin42 never saw the point of camping - says he sitting next to a nice warm radiator
<robotninja> I don't get out camping as much as I'd like, but I'm having a couple of days up in Snowdonia next week. Nice to get away from things.
<penguin42> it looks like the latter end of the week has a better chance
<Myrtti> < Myrtti> today's experience at Hobbycraft parking lot: for the first time ever I  noticed my phone had 4G. Proceeded to do a speed test - ended up laughing and  crying at the same time because I can get blazing speeds at a parking lot  while the experience at home reminds me of 56K modem times.
<penguin42> Myrtti: Next time you're there look around  - you were probably standing below a base station - I mean where better to put a base station than a parking lot
<penguin42> Myrtti: and did you rcarrier have a shop in the same shopping area?
<daftykins> penguin42: seems you were quite right, though i had a 64KB stripe on my old array and went for a 256KB stripe this time (not sure if it would have any influence) i only saw 120MB/sec copying the data over my data to the new setup D:
 * penguin42 admits to not having remembered saying anything about alignment
<daftykins> oh no you hadn't, but i had created the new one with said larger stripe and don't know if it factored in
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> but given it took about 18hrs to build the RAID5 volume i am not in a hurry to repeat it :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Note that if you're stripes go too big then it might hurt you on small writes
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> mostly large data on there so shouldn't be a problem
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> i've yet to do anything with the disks in either set
<daftykins> in fact perhaps that should be a task for today
<daftykins> i find it wise not to move too quickly with such things though :) certainly don't have any plans with what to do with the old disks yet!
<shauno> I just found John Barrowman in concert on sky arts?  now I remember why I don't watch regular TV often
<diddledan_> shauno, is john barrowman in concert a bad thing?
<shauno> perhaps "too much of a good thing" is a nice way to put it
<ali1234> what's the best way to make python websites these days?
<ali1234> i need something extremely minimal. no user logins, and no actual pages. but it does need to be able to store persistent data
<ali1234> django seems like overkill for this, and i don't know any others
<maps|wrk> hello
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-04
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> good morning SWAT
<zmoylan-pi> bank holiday monday...
<WhishkeyKing> Woke Up . suddenly realised = I've no plans today. What's a geek to do ?
<knightwise> WhishkeyKing: good question. Go outside ? take a walk ?
<WhishkeyKing> coffe shop ? all good ideas. I dont want vampires from the election-crappolo anyway .. http://i.imgur.com/1K5Jhyd.png
<WhishkeyKing> **coffee .. sorry did I swear, sorry 'bout that.
<SWAT> knightwise: good morning
<WhishkeyKing> knightwise: wat was your last podcast about ? I enjoyed the starwars one. v. much
<knightwise> thanx WhishkeyKing tyhe last one was about the death of leonard nimoy
<knightwise> we will be starting with season 3 next week
<WhishkeyKing> Right back from the Co-op shop.
<WhishkeyKing> and ... and .. I simply cannot wait for the nice young Lady to do the stickers for reduced bread, today.
 * WhishkeyKing Is facing an onslaught of advanced procrastination.
<WhishkeyKing> Managed to get 400g of Strawberries for 50p though - so It's all good.
<WhishkeyKing> My keyboard mapping is a mess - How do solve this ?
<WhishkeyKing> pounds sign is #
<WhishkeyKing> quote sign is @
<knightwise> apple keyboard ,
<knightwise> ?
<WhishkeyKing> and'at' sign is "
<WhishkeyKing> no compaq standard isssue keyboard.
<WhishkeyKing> Oh I found out what the problem/s was with "my Life" , today ... It's StarWars day - figures.
<shauno> if @ and " are switched, it usually means you're using a US keymap on a UK keyboard, or vice versa
<WhishkeyKing> riight but what gives in terms of changing it ?
<zmoylan-pi> change the country option usually
<WhishkeyKing> Ruight, but how do I do that action ?
<zmoylan-pi> in xubuntu start -> all settings -> keyboard -> layout
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dutchie> morning
<brobostigon> morning dutchie
<WhishkeyKing> What am I supposed to do now, brainz ? http://imgur.com/MbpAuKD
<zmoylan-pi> change the keyboard layout to uk or what ever layout you have
<WhishkeyKing> got it -It's UK, extended WinKeys , that's a plus for today , then . http://imgur.com/MbpAuKD
<zmoylan-pi> \o/ hurumble
 * zmoylan-pi goes back to banging head against perl...
<brobostigon> :(
<WhishkeyKing> Time to play some Dark forces. (I got the pack) http://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_dark_forces
<knightwise> just reinstalled windows 8.1 on my surface pro. Had been running ubuntu on it for a while but the wifi performance was horrible
<knightwise> resorted to running elementary in a fullscreen vm .. :) Works too :p
<WhishkeyKing> knightwise, I like elementry - I just don't like the LLC
<knightwise> llc ?
<knightwise> the terminal you mean ?
<WhishkeyKing> No the company.
<knightwise> ah ,
<knightwise> Elementary is kinda light .. kinda good looking ..
<knightwise> so I like it because its pretty clean
<knightwise> I run in as fullscreen vms on my mac an my windows machines
<WhishkeyKing> Yeah, it works well alright - Just mentioning the fin. support scheme they have : http://community.badvoltage.org/t/elementaryos-payments-vs-donations/10421
<WhishkeyKing> But I guess you don't donate, that much.
<knightwise> Nope :) I advocate :)
<WhishkeyKing> Kind of passe discussion, thou.
<knightwise> I think I do my thing for the open source king and country with the blog and the podcast
<WhishkeyKing> You do.                           and you do it well ! \o/
<knightwise> lol :) thanx dude
<WhishkeyKing> What the situation over there about the Lugs ? I'll be over in June - would love to have a coffee with ya.
<knightwise> it reminds me I need to get cracking on season three next week.
<knightwise> I still have pretty busy week for the company , but once that is done i'm going back behind the mike
<WhishkeyKing> I'll give you my twitter handle via PM.
<knightwise> sure :) shoot
<WhishkeyKing> knightwise, Ok done that.
<knightwise> there :) Done :)
 * penguin42 Bank Holiday yawns
 * zmoylan-pi hands penguin42 a baseball and a baseball mitt so he can pass time in great escape manner
<penguin42> haha, no I can't complain about a BH
<shauno> I can.  I forgot what shift I was on, and showed up 2 hours early :(
 * penguin42 has been on holiday for the last week, so it's back to work for me tomorrow - so I'll have to suffer the -4hour bed lag
 * brobostigon will be walking down to his local in abit after lunch, enjoy abit of the sun.
 * WhishkeyKing puts the Great Escape baseball and baseball mitt game into to the Ubuntu Touch games pile.
<penguin42> would work as a breakout game
<zmoylan-pi> but does help to pass time
<MooDoo> hello all
<penguin42> Hey
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> So W = Wily Werewolf
<shauno> What?!
<MooDoo> that's Ubuntu W
<shauno> they can't call it Wily :/  that's almost 2 years of diddledan not letting it go
<MooDoo> Too late, it's Wily lol
<diddledan> oh dear oh dear
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> my wily won't work~!
<diddledan> or "I broke my wily"
<penguin42> will it have extended support?
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> the next LTS should be 16.04 IIRC
<penguin42> I know that
<diddledan> so I caught a virus on my wily. I was unprotected.
<shauno> so wily's only good for 9 months
<MooDoo> just the same as anyother release
<diddledan> there's an endless number of puns here
<shauno> :(
<moreati> Xcellent Xenartha next year? http://www.animalstown.com/animals/x/xenarthra/xenarthra.php
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> xenophobic
<shauno> not sure that'd work :p
<shauno> if 'linux for humans' is xenophobic, it'll just end up hating aliens.  which isn't very nerdy.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it'll be used for the new independence day
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, we'd have to be careful to stop using the phrase 'internationalisation' and make sure we always use 'localisation' in case it offends those not from this earth
<zmoylan-pi> they'll take an alien mothership down with pulse audio or systemd? :-P
<shauno> but .. but .. this is a local distro, for /local/ humans
<shauno> I dunno, at least I can spell localization without pausing to doubt myself mid-way
<penguin42> I'm glad you can :-)
<WhishkeyKing> Hi Knightmare, I 'll PM you.
<daftykins> tum-te-tum
<dutchie> hi daftykins
<daftykins> good evening!
<daftykins> my what a wet day it was here :(
<dutchie> only started in the evening for me
<dutchie> was lovely until after tea time
<daftykins> oh my press ups are still amusing, get to about 14 then just collapse XD
<daftykins> hmm think i'm gonna go to the lounge \o
<popey> evening slackers
<dutchie> o/
<ali1234> anyone know of software for a DECT modem?
<ali1234> it's like a voice modem basically, but different commands eg pairing
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-05
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/698295-cello-c42250dvb4k-42-4k-led-tv-c42250dvb4k
<mappps> morning
<knightwise> hey mappps , how are you
<diddledan> mornin
<knightwise> hey diddledan how are you today ?
<diddledan> I'm good thanks ;-0
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> silly fingers can't type an emoticon :-p
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise>  its ok , its still early
<knightwise> I'm listening to some ambient sounds to help me wakeup
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ3h0ybGI3w
 * diddledan clicks
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> those startrek warp drives must be awesome for their comforting noises
<knightwise> they are :) helps me too when I cant get to sleep
<knightwise> headphones on ... zzzzzz
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> m00
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<foobarry> i completed super mario galaxy over the weekend...discovered i had got to the final stage about 3 years ago and never got round to attempting it
<directhex> i finished SMG, and it was good, but i can't get excited enough to play 2
<directhex> i think i bought it on wiiu virtual console, but haven't touched it
<foobarry> what happens after you complete it?
<foobarry> still have lots of stars to collect, but are extra features opened up?
<popey> just played/streamed a windows game from my windows steam box to my linux laptop via steam. Surprised how well it works.
<davmor2> popey: why not just vnc?
<popey> uh. no.
<davmor2> popey: or login to your windows pc via the Ubuntu login (me still has no idea how that works :) )
<popey> still no
<popey> :)
<popey> too slow, low framerate, no audio, no controller passthrough
<davmor2> popey: only asking :)
<foobarry> directhex: in my mind SMG2 is just more of the same and cannot get excited about it. i've no idea if anything in the game is different/better. i might as well just play SMG and collect all 120 stars
<directhex> i was bummed out on mario after sunshine
<directhex> and i'm bummed out on zelda after twili
<foobarry> sunshine was really hard
<foobarry> i got stuck (by boredom ) on zelda during a weird level
<directhex> okami was the best zelda game for a decade
<foobarry> i hated the wolf scenes on twiligh too
<foobarry> what's the one after?
<foobarry> the one i got a gold controller for
<directhex> after twilight princess? skyward sword
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> got bored on a level where it was dark and i had to catch a load of things
<foobarry> then the batteries leaked in my gold remote
<directhex> i just can't care any more
<directhex> nintendo have learned literally zero from modern game design, since their staff don't play non-nintendo games
<directhex> they're just recycling the same N64 design choices over and over
<foobarry> however it works to an extent as i am still playing the wii
<foobarry> and my son abolsutely loves it (5)
<directhex> maybe i'm just old and grumpy
<MooDoo> directhex: you old? ;)
<directhex> MooDoo: 31! but i've been playing nintendo for 26 years
<directhex> so have experienced their changes (or lack thereof) over that time period
<directhex> i think what drove me off skyward sword entirely was the god-awful flying controls.
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think i've ever held a nintendo controller other than the wii
<directhex> i hate the wiimote
<directhex> as far as nintendo systems go, i have NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, Wii U, GBP, GBC, GBA, DS, 3DS
 * zmoylan-pi pines for my zx spectrum +2...
<foobarry> i like wiimote
<directhex> i have a dragon 32 on the shelf in need of a good home
<directhex> actually, 2 of them
<directhex> sorta like a spectrum, but big and welsh
<zmoylan-pi> i remember seeing a dragon 32 manual around the last time i moved...
<zmoylan-pi> beautiful keyboard, another also ran 8 bit computer that arrived too late
<directhex> the UK had no shortage of those
<zmoylan-pi> i liked the oric but mainly as it was nod to blakes 7...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Ferret Day! ð
<bashrc> happy ferret day
<directhex> is there a sad ferret day?
<zmoylan-pi> a ferret that has no more pants to be stuffed down?
<davmor2> shoves a live one up JamesTait trouser leg and offers bets on when it bites and how loud JamesTait scream is
<zmoylan-pi> JamesTait... in the conservatory, with a weasel...
<JamesTait> I think I'd be sad if I were a ferret stuck out in this weather.
<foobarry> a ferret biting down on a gonad - possibly the most painful thing a human could experience?
 * JamesTait replaces tape on webcam, eyes zmoylan-pi suspiciously.
<directhex> the sun has appeared!
<davmor2> directhex: that was my first colour compter the dragon 32
<davmor2> computer even
<directhex> davmor2: want a couple?
<foobarry> need a blend of sun and rain this week as i planted a lawn
<davmor2> directhex: no
<directhex> i know one works. not sure about the other. may have mixed them up
<davmor2> directhex: still no
<directhex> shameful
<davmor2> directhex: I have too much stuff already
<zmoylan-pi> a kitten dropping onto your lap while your wearing tracksuit... kitten digs in claws on landing, you jump up, kitten digs in claws harder...
<JamesTait> I knew I should have got the mower out yesterday, just couldn't bring myself to do it rather than going out on the bikes and then going to buy new brake pads.
<foobarry> a hoe is such a great tool for gardening. i don't know how i coped before
<zmoylan-pi> aren't there robots for mowing the lawn... or sheep rentals...
<foobarry> the bludgeons guide to weeding
<foobarry> "IGN also listed Super Mario Galaxy 2 as the greatest Wii game of all time"
<foobarry> the write ups sound like more of the same though :S
<directhex> is it worth me finding a wiimote and changing the TV input? that's the question
<foobarry> tv input?
<foobarry> i use the standard cable i think
<directhex> foobarry: well the amp defaults to SAT/CATV, and the wiiu is on DVD/BD
<directhex> there's a whole knob i have to turn
<directhex> lots of effort to play a game in SD
<shauno> it doesn't do it itself?!
<directhex> shauno: no, the wii u doesn't support HDMI-CEC
<directhex> nor does the xbox one. or my second-gen PS3
<directhex> (i.e. a fat one w/ semi-emulated ps2 support)
<directhex> i think the slim does. the superslim definitely does
<shauno> heh, I haven't owned a console since the megadrive, so I wouldn't know the difference
<shauno> I just remember thinking scart was the best thing since sliced bread because it'd change inputs automatically
<shauno> seems strange that they've managed to go backwards since
<directhex> well, there are two ways to change the input on the av receiver - emulating the remote and sending IR signals (how a kinect-equipped xbone does it), or sending the commands down an HDMI data line (HDMI-CEC)
<foobarry> finally managed to remove teh cart switcher from my telly
<foobarry> scart*
<directhex> HDMI CEC means e.g. pressing a volume key on my TV affects the amp
<foobarry> reduced my scart inputs to 2
<czajkowski> aloha
<directhex> scart was a very silly solution to a problem
<foobarry> the thing about scart is that if your hand is round the back of the telly and you are trying to insert it blindly , it will take you 10 minutes of frustration
<shauno> I jsut wheel the telly out.  I've got so much behind there now that blindly inserting a limb could be fatal
<directhex> shauno: there could be a happy ferret back there
<shauno> there actually could be :(
<shauno> although more my worry is these silly wall-warts that come with switchable plug bits.  I've a couple that like to fall off the plate if you look at them funny
<shauno> which leaves some quite awkward shiny bits very exposed
<davmor2> czajkowski: see how everyone ignores you, what did you do to traumatise them that much?
 * awilkins sends davmor2 for compulsory Ohana classes
<davmor2> awilkins: hahaha nice :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Morning by the way
<czajkowski> hmm my alt number key bindings are gone
<czajkowski> feck
<davmor2> czajkowski: add them back again then ;)
<zmoylan-pi> when bindings unravel...
<czajkowski> hmm have ctrl n and alt p workinbg but not alt number working
<davmor2> czajkowski: for irssi?
<foobarry> that happens when i have tabs open
<zmoylan-pi> an update to the terminal software interferring perhaps...
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye
<popey> czajkowski: which terminal?
<davmor2> czajkowski: ctrl n/p and alt n/p are defaults don't know about alt+number
<popey> gnome-terminal?
<Laney> go into the preferences and clear the keybindings
<popey> yeah, it defaults to using ALT+(letter) for menus. disable that
<czajkowski> pooopey aye
<czajkowski> popey: even
<czajkowski> *headdesk*
<Laney> there's also "Switch to tab <n>" which you need to delete these days
<popey> i switched to terminator
<jpds> popey: You'll be back.
<czajkowski> ahhhh
<davmor2> now I understand why no-one answered you czajkowski calling popey pooopey he only tried to help you ;)
<popey> hah
<foobarry> my pet hate...clicking a search box on a web page, and having to delete the word "search" from the box before searching ...WHHHYYYY
<diplo> javascript versions and browser versions foobarry
<diplo> I try and keep on top of it on my box, think I've removed most instances with placeholder=
<shauno> placeholder shouldn't act like that?
<diplo> nah the search issue is normally a javascript issue, I've started using placeholder to replace the one foobarry is seeing
<shauno> ah gotcha .. I read it almost exactly the opposite :)
<diplo> That would probably be my fault, not really with it today
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> when the last packet of crisps is cheese and onion :(
<zmoylan-pi> english cheese and onion crisps are 'orrible.  i prefer tayto...
<dogmatic69__> oh man... http://www.thedailywtf.com/articles/version-logging
<dogmatic69__> foobarry:  the best kind of crisps is anything that is not salt and vinegar.....
<foobarry> does anyone know of a good personal alarm? wife wants one
<davmor2> popey: just a quick review of my mifi. I was able to work with it Friday afternoon, Over the weekend it had 5 devices attached to it all worked slowly but worked. On Monday I caught the keynote and it stalled to cache twice.  Other than that steady speed that was faster up and down that the site wifi and kept me and my wife online for the whole weekend :)  Well spent Â£35 in my opinion :)
<davmor2> popey: first proper use in the sticks :)
<zmoylan-pi> next, how well it does in the boonies beyond the sticks...
<davmor2> popey: signal strength bounced between 2-3 bars out of 5
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I only go to the sticks, ex quarry turned into a caravan park a long time ago :)
<popey> nice!
<zmoylan-pi> huddled around the mifi watching a youtube video in a caravan... :-P
<shauno> I guess if you're trapped in a caravan, it's either that or cook meth
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> all out of travel scrabble??
<shauno> I spent a weekend in a caravan once.  someone grabbed some CDs before we left.  when we got there, we discovered they'd managed to grab 3 singles.
<shauno> that was a looong weekend
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully one was proclaimers 500 miles... :-P
<diddledan> haha that's awesome!
<shauno> 1990's problems eh?  now I carry around 25,000 songs in my back pocket just in case
<davmor2> shauno: they are a bit more modern nowadays they have tv's and everything :P
<zmoylan-pi> and the tvs have remotes which is weird as they're so close that you don't have to move to touch them... :-)
<shauno> it still feels a bit too much like camping in someone's front room for me
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'm tall but even I can't reach that far
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: http://www.caravanfinder.co.uk/touring-caravans-for-sale/adria-caravans/adria-altea-552-up-trent-1-caravan-2015-northamptonshire-tk0190c82
<shauno> if there was an award for "most british URL" ..
<davmor2> shauno: it was the first site with decent images :)  The main adria one is basically just a plan :D
<shauno> oh I don't even mean clicking it, just the URL itself :)
<zmoylan-pi> we just need to get this picture onto it... :-) http://9gag.com/gag/a09vG6L/my-friend-probably-just-took-the-most-british-picture-ever
<davmor2> shauno: there are worse trust me
<foobarry> word for the day: tsundoku http://i.imgur.com/4rQX0Kn.jpg
<foobarry> my word is tsunsteamo
<foobarry> accumulating games on steam that you never play
<foobarry> tsunjouki
 * bashrc has never used steam
<diplo> I really must play some games on my PC again at some point :)
<zmoylan-pi> installing linux on a system with uefi and secure boot counts as a game...
<shauno> A strange game.  The only winning move is not to play.
<bashrc> can you turn uefi off?
<zmoylan-pi> <would. you. like. to. play. a. game. of. chess.  doctor. falcon?>
<shauno> I think you can on some older stuff.  on newer machines, bios is a shim ontop of uefi instead of vice-versa
<zmoylan-pi> you can turn uefi off for now and secure boot, but it's a pain if you want to dual boot with windows.  and in new systems it's probable you won't be able to turn off secure boot.
<bashrc> :(
<zmoylan-pi> windows 10 will tighten the noose on installing your own os
<shauno> I like efi, in theory.  it's just a bit bumpy finally ditching 30 years of backwards compatibility
<shauno> I mean, it really does seem a bit silly that a brand new PC wakes up "thinking" it's an 8088
<zmoylan-pi> it's the only way to be sure it'll run ms flight simulator :-)
<zmoylan-pi> with cga
<shauno> that's okay, we have X-Plane now :)
<popey> GWBASIC ftw
<zmoylan-pi> my first pc basic...
<popey> I used to love it when we'd go in the computing "suite" and they'd not handed out the floppy disks yet
<popey> I'd turn the pc on and start coding
<zmoylan-pi> working on single floppy computers, booting from one disk and then swapping to application disk and then saving to personal floppy...
<shauno> I could never got on with basic.  it just irked me
<zmoylan-pi> basic is an awesome language.  it reminds me of perl :-)
<zmoylan-pi> till ms got their mitts on it, cornered the market and killed it
<shauno> it just bugged me that you'd sit and bang away on the atari at home, then go to school and discover that it was all useless because everyone had their own dialect of basic
<zmoylan-pi> instead of which everyone has their own version of libraries in any other language on different oses like now... :-)
<popey> when I discovered in-line assembly in bbc basic.. that was an eye opener
<popey> BBC basic was so far ahead of the other 8-bit micros
<bashrc> that was always debated at the time
<shauno> peek and poke were my favourites.  mostly because on the atari, there were buttons that could only be read via peek, you could play/pause the tape deck with a poke, etc
<shauno> so it grabbed me that they could do something tangible
<shauno> I had a 'game' that tried to teach you french.  it'd load each lesson from the tape, and then there was audio between the lessons
<shauno> so it'd keep pausing and playing the tape to reel off the next audio
<shauno> that struck me as clever as hell, and led me to trawling through the listing figuring out how they did it:)
<shauno> (back when the Break key was magic)
<popey> BEEP-BOOP!
<zmoylan-pi> the bbc was sold at a loss initially.  that was why it was above and beyond all the rest.
<popey> I bumped into a friend in a pub some 10+ years after leaving school. He found some of my old spectrum games I'd written on tapes in his loft
<popey> I have since lost it all :(
<zmoylan-pi> is there a wikipedia page like doctor who lost tapes page for popeys tapes? :-)
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> do you think it's possible to do an intersection search on the electoral roll data and exclude people from the list that aren't eligble to vote in certain elections?
<Myrtti> I find it somewhat offensive that I get mail from certain immigration phobic parties addressed to "Dear Voter" when I'm not eligible to vote, because I'm a non-naturalised immigrant
<zmoylan-pi> you could ring them and with the heaviest accent you can put on ask for more information... :-P
<bashrc> I think if you're resident in the UK for more than half the year then you should be allowed to vote, but that's just my opinion
<shauno> that'd seem logical to me - I think it should just follow taxation.  wherever I'm tax-resident I should be allowed representation
<shauno> (which I believe it's very similar to the 50% rule - it's whichever country you spend the most time in)
<shauno> it's pretty funky here though - I'm elligible to vote, just not in elections
<shauno> (but I won't, because I'm not elligible for a postal vote.  fun times)
<Azelphur> Hey folks, so I have a new router and I'm trying to set up my ISPs native IPv6, the info I have from my ISP is: IPv6 Address 2001:4d48:ad52:4800::/56     PTP Address 2001:4d48:ad00:5248::/64     Size 56
<Azelphur> And my router has a lot of options: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2015/May/2015-05-05-175735_1294x1186_scrot.png not sure what to put where
<shauno> hm, I think you're missing a detail there
<Azelphur> My old router works on IPv6 with no additional info afaik
<shauno> I think the first address (...480::) goes in lan setting, and 56 in the box below it
<shauno> but for the wan address, they've given you a network but not an address?  so .. not sure where you're supposed to pluck the gateway address from
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2015/May/2015-05-05-180347_1556x1333_scrot.png is what I have in the old router, for reference
<diddledan> the lan subnet is the /56 and the wan ip is the /64
<diddledan> so static ip....5248:: and 64 in the box for prefix
<shauno> yeah, that's how I read it too.  the 'routed' in one is the 'lan' in the other, the ad52 address, that's you
<Azelphur> confusion growing :P
<shauno> and the ad00/64 is the p2p
<diddledan> Azelphur: wan ip is 2001:4d48:ad00:5248:: and the prefix is 64
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> any other boxes to fill in?
<diddledan> Azelphur: lan ip is 2001:4d48:ad52:4800::1 and 56 in the prefix
<Azelphur> sweet :)
<diddledan> (I just plucked the ::1 out of the air)
<Azelphur> the gateway is required
<diddledan> you can use whatever you want in the lan provided it's in the 2001:4d48:ad52:4800::/56 subnet
<Azelphur> won't let me submit the form without gateway
<Azelphur> which is strange, because on my old router IPv6 gateway is blank and it has always worked
<shauno> I thought that part was meant to be magic
<diddledan> the old config is using an ip you didn't tell us about, namely 2001:4d48:ad00:5248::1
<Azelphur> well I did tell you about it, I posted a screenshot of all settings :P
<shauno> I'd try using the same for the gateway but with ::2
<Azelphur> diddledan: and yea I did tell you about that address in my initial question :P
<diddledan> yeah try that
<shauno> I can't promise it'll work, but there's a chance they're just taking anything that comes down the line and not caring  lol
<diddledan> your initial question doesn't mention a ::1 address
<Azelphur> it mentions a /64 block, I had someone help me set this up before given only the information that I gave you
<diddledan> well then they were psychic :-p
<Azelphur> must have been ;)
<Azelphur> so um, anything for the gateway?
<shauno> but I think it's meant to just use one of the magic addresses, like ff01::2
<Azelphur> maybe I can inspect the old router to get this information?
<Azelphur> Old router is still here and I haven't changed anything
<diddledan> you can look in the booted-up routing table (route -n)
<diddledan> maybe `route -6 -n`
<Azelphur> diddledan: this reminds me of something the fellow told me to do that was bizarre
<diddledan> :-D
<Azelphur> ip -6 route add default dev pppoe-wan
<Azelphur> had to run that on boot to get it to work
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> that suggests it's just dumping down the pipe and not caring about where it's going
<shauno> on the new one or the old one?
<Azelphur> shauno: old one
<shauno> I'm gonna stick with my ::2 advice until you prove it doesn't work then :)
<diddledan> yup
<Azelphur> ::2 advice?
<Azelphur> must have missed that somewhere
<diddledan> alternatively they want you to use ::2 and point the gateway at ::1
<shauno> where your wan IP is something::1, make their (gateway) IP thesame::2
<Azelphur> (18:09:44) diddledan: Azelphur: wan ip is 2001:4d48:ad00:5248:: and the prefix is 64
<shauno> I believe it doesn't actually matter what address it is, as long as your router believes it's someone else, thus shoves it down the wire
<Azelphur> so change wan IP add a 1 on the end
<Azelphur> and then same for gateway with a 2?
<Azelphur> so that makes wan IPv6 address be 2001:4d48:ad00:5248::1 and wan IPv6 gateway 2001:4d48:ad00:5248::2
<shauno> bingo
 * Azelphur hits apply
<shauno> (and if that doesn't work, wake MartijnVdS up ;)
<Azelphur> lets see if it works :)
<Azelphur> hmm, well it applied but test-ipv6.com fails
<shauno> how faily?
<Azelphur> 0/10 faily
<shauno> (also, try host -6 google.com  see if you have DNS)
<shauno> since those boxes were kinda empty too
<shauno> er no, host -t AAAA google.com
<Azelphur> host -t AAAA works
<Azelphur> shauno: can't ping google though :(
<shauno> hm.  there goes my guess then
<Azelphur> so yea, maybe next best bet is to plug old router in and do some analysis? if you have any ideas there
<shauno> possibly, but I suspect you don't have a gateway there either
<Azelphur> but the old one works
<Azelphur> I could just phone up my ISPs tech support, they are pretty good
<shauno> might be worth a shot, I'm gonna be afk for 20 minutes anyway :)
<shauno> just an odd one because I don't thinnk you should actually require a gateway address on a p2p link
<shauno> but the web interface isn't giving you that option
<Azelphur> shauno: maybe relevant? I'm set to Static IPv6 as connection type, I have no P2P option
<dogmatic69> hi all, thought I would give 15.04 a go. got this instead... http://pastebin.com/ah6jKvRA
<dogmatic69> any ideas
<diddledan> dogmatic69: you need to tell the relase upgrader that you want non-lts versions
<diddledan> dogmatic69: you'll need to go through 14.10 en-route tho
<diddledan> dogmatic69: looks like the config is in /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades (that's a file)
<diddledan> specifically the last line which reads "Prompt=lts" change the "lts" to "normal"
<dogmatic69> diddledan: that was it
<dogmatic69> dont care for lts tbh
<ali1234> how do i do 'for string in "AAA AAB AAC ... ZZZ"' in shell script?
<ali1234> echo {A..Z}{A..Z}{A..Z}
<diddledan> ali1234: try `for string in $(seq AAA ZZZ)`
<ali1234> seq: invalid floating point argument: AAA
<diddledan> aww
<ali1234> echo works though
<diddledan> yeah manpage says seq is only numbers
<ali1234> of course now i have the problem of how to escape it
<diddledan> shell escaping "does me 'ead in"
<shauno> why escape it?
<shauno> (I mean, what's it going in, since bash will take it alone)
<ali1234> for str in $(echo {A..Z}{A..Z}{A..Z}); do echo $str; done
<ali1234> prints {A..Z}{A..Z}{A..Z}
<shauno> ahh
<shauno> for foo in {A..Z}{A..Z}{A..Z} ; do echo $foo ; done
<shauno> don't overcomplicate it :)
<ali1234> still prints {A..Z}{A..Z}{A..Z}
<shauno> really?
<ali1234> oh wait
<ali1234> #!/bin/sh
<shauno> ah, yeah, I think .. is specific to bash4
<ali1234> yeah that works, cheers
<ali1234> /bin/bash works for me
<ali1234> so this DECT modem thing takes commands in the form AT^C***
<ali1234> so my plan is to just try every command and see which ones do stuff
<ali1234> since they all appear to be vendor specific
<zmoylan-pi> ati requests settings.  what those settings mean of course may vary... :-)
<shauno> that sounds like an interesting evening :)
<zmoylan-pi> at least if it's hayes compatible... :-)
<ali1234> it's very much not
<ali1234> i have so far figured out that when it rings you answer it by sending AT^CANS
<ali1234> and hang up with AT^CRLS
<ali1234> but you can't make it go off-hook with that command if it is not already rining
<diddledan> is that ^C literal ^ followed by a C or a ctrl-c character?
<ali1234> the device i ripped it out of doesn't appear to have the ability to initiate calls at all, so i can't sniff for it
<ali1234> diddledan: it's a literal ^ and a literal C
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> we're not in kansas anymore, toto
<ali1234> so yeah, if i was the engineer making the commands i wouldn't leave out "go off hook" but the modem has three epoxy blobs on it so it is very much custom
<ali1234> and technically it's not a modem, just a DTE controlled with custom AT commands on serial
<shauno> well, answer and release seem to be non-stupid mnemonics, so there's a little light at the end of the tunnel at least
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> amusingly when it rings it does not "ring"
<ali1234> the controlling MCU has to pick up the ring message and send AT^CTON=**,* to make it play a sound
<ali1234> where **,* = ringtone number and volume
<ali1234> you can make it do this at any time
<ali1234> TONE = tone presumably
<ali1234> and CRST resets it
<shauno> I have no idea why this reminds me, but once upon a time I discovered that there's a limit to how many times green-dot equipment can redial the same number
<ali1234> green-dot?
<shauno> I don't remember the proper name.  some kind of certification that phone equipment has (had?) to be allowed on BT's network
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> i know exactly what you mean
<shauno> usually shown by a green circle on the label
<shauno> (remembering that pretty much everything I know about the UK is 15 years out of date  heh)
<ali1234> yeah i haven't seen one of those stickers in years
<shauno> this one just sticks in my mind because the "troubleshooting" methodology I took before discovering this was terrible.  absolutely terrible.
<shauno> we had the freeserve deal where you paid a flat-rate for all you can eat.  so you didn't pay for calls, but freeserve hung up every 2 hours to stop you being me
<shauno> someone yanked my line out so they could use the phone, and didn't plug it back in again.  and I have wvdial on a vicious loop to keep my internet up all night
<shauno> so when I woke up, it was refusing to dial out.  I can't remember the error it printed, but I went digging through wvdial's source for it, nadda
<shauno> grepped the kernel for it, nadda.  dumped most of potato's sources from CD onto the drive, nada
<shauno> though I'd try for a clean install to test there.  moved everything onto one drive.  picked the wrong drive during the install, and ended up with two clean drives
<shauno> eventually gave up, dragged the modem off to mum's machine to plead my favourite maillist for help.  and they told me to powercycle the modem
<ali1234> ouch
<shauno> so that's how I found out that not only does BT have rules, but they're enforced on the equipment, even if it's not plugged into the line
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> a modem was disallowing you to reconnect after that 2hrs?
<shauno> not after 2 hour .. because the line was disconnected, it went into redialling as soon as the previous attempt gave up
<shauno> iirc wvdial gives up after a number of attempts, but I left it in a loop because I wanted my internet
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> i think that happened to me once, back when you could get "engaged" on the ISP dial up line
<shauno> it ended up happening regularly because we had that bt answer-service thing that pulsed your dialtone to tell you there was a message waiting
<shauno> which my modem totally didn't accept as being a dialtone
<ali1234> fun times
<diddledan> we had that too
<diddledan> I left my firewall doing redial attempts forever
<ali1234> my plan, if i get this working, is to build an IVR box from a raspberry pi
<diddledan> I was using smoothwall followed by ipcop
<ali1234> and use it to confuse telemarketers
<shauno> but yeah.  when we say 90% of IT is using teh googles, they're not kidding.  I'll never forget 'troubleshooting' with nothing but the potato CDs
<ali1234> the phone this came out of is really rubbish and doesn;t work right with any base station other than it's own
<shauno> (or when I discovered man pages, trying to read them all, before realising they're not meant to be consumed like that)
<ali1234> i was hoping that by accessing the modem directly i could fix that but it seems too proprietary
<daftykins> we had only 1p/min local dial-up or AOL :(
<daftykins> so i had to go to AOL
<ali1234> 1p/min? luxury!
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> we had 5.4p/min off peak and weekends, 12p/min daytime
<shauno> we had the choice between local-rate for 'free' or 15 quid a month for freephone access
<shauno> it didn't seem to matter which ISP, they were all in cahoots with BT
<daftykins> hrmm
<ali1234> "A" commands are done... only "ANS" seems valid
<shauno> your script caught ANS though?
<ali1234> yes the device helpfully tells you "ERROR: UNKNOWN" for actual unknown commands, or "ERROR: ILLEGAL" if the command just doesn't work *now*
<shauno> that's pretty optimistic then.  it sounds "feature-free" enough that you're not really expecting a long list
<ali1234> ERROR: PARAMETER is also possible for the commands with = in them, but i am not scanning for those this time around
<ali1234> it doesn't need a huge amount of commands
<ali1234> all i need is "go off hook"
<ali1234> i mean it's just a phone, no data is involved
<shauno> hm, what if there isn't one?
<ali1234> well i can still use it to get caller ID wirelessly
<ali1234> and receive calls
<shauno> just thinking even if it does do outbound, it could be more "dial this number" than "pick up", "send these tones", etc
<ali1234> that would be fine as well, easier even
<ali1234> the unit is a digital photo frame that shows a picture of who is calling, it came with a base station and anormal handset as well
<ali1234> the baseband radio is the same in all three, the photoframe has an extra chip that talks these AT commands
<ali1234> all three have some kind of SPI interface which I could maybe reverse engineer
<ali1234> but the baseband is certainly capable of making calls
<ali1234> there is also an i2c eeprom, not sure what that is for, pin number/registration i guess
<shauno> I'm not sure I would have thought to turn a photoframe into an IVR :)
<ali1234> well the modem part is on a daughterboard which is what makes me think it is capable of more
<ali1234> the photoframe has a mic and speaker and can answer calls too
<ali1234> all of that is on the daughterboard
<ali1234> the main board is just a regular photoframe with this thing hanging off a serial port
<ali1234> hmm... literally nothing in "B"
<shauno> I'm rooting for D :)
<ali1234> "dial" command is probably going to want an "=" so i won't find it on this pass
<shauno> hm, something for dtmf or digit would probably be similar then
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-06
<zmoylan-pi> if you look up the manuals of more accessible dect devices might it /suggest/ the commands in use?
<ali1234> there's a whole standard for DECT
<ali1234> this thing doesn't use it
<ali1234> http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/102100_102199/102179/01.01.01_60/tr_102179v010101p.pdf
<ali1234> it's not even a tiny bit similar
<ali1234> "D" looks empty
<daftykins> this amuses me, this baseball team i watch has a player  called "C. Colon"
<zmoylan-pi> no worse than the command in dos days.  'cee colon enter'
<daftykins> yus i grew up on DOS
<daftykins> after the Apple ][ anyway ;)
<zmoylan-pi> company i worked for supported cpm computers when i joined but was just moving to pcs as i joined.
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> some of them quite advanced.  we had one with sound capabilities.  listening to 'pc' made in early 80s play music from the can-can
<diddledan> hmm.. I was gonna get some sleep today. or so I convinced myself
<daftykins> tsk tsk
<daftykins> argh cat breath
<daftykins> she's right on my chest
<zmoylan-pi> kitty want a mint? :-P
<daftykins> :D
<mappps> yay
<mappps> allegiance time
<mappps> diddledan go to sleep then?
<mappps> :D
 * diddledan_ trying out irc in thunderbird
<zmoylan-pi> is that not like using the lhc for cracking nuts?
<diddledan_> is it time for bed?
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> finished my diorama finally. one of my test shots. think i'll wait for some good daylight to get the best out of it http://i.imgur.com/VmPZgEm.jpg
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Homework Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Now I know you are lying I want to see you explain that one to beuno, sorry sir I couldn't do any work today I couldn't do homework ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's the perfect excuse, isn't it? :-P
<foobarry> no housework day would be good
<foobarry> !info filezilla
<lubotu3> filezilla (source: filezilla): Full-featured graphical FTP/FTPS/SFTP client. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.9.0.5-1ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 1540 kB, installed size 5282 kB
<awilkins> Not sure what the need for Filezilla is for casual usage - you can connect to FTP / SFTP  with GVFS
<foobarry> required for users :(
<foobarry> checking if ubuntu had a secure one
<foobarry> seems filezilla doesn't support password protected keys!
<awilkins> Really?
<foobarry> yeah!
<awilkins> This Winders or Linux?
<foobarry> both,
<awilkins> On Winders you can use Pageant
<foobarry>  Password protected keyfiles are not supported by FileZilla yet.
<foobarry> Would you like to convert it into an unprotected file?
<awilkins> You can use key agents : https://wiki.filezilla-project.org/Howto
<foobarry> yes...but users :(
<awilkins> I presume on Linux the key agent just prompts for hte key?
<foobarry> no
<awilkins> Arsebadgers
<foobarry> oh, the agent? i dunno
 * awilkins apologies for channel-inappropriate language
<nucc1> i'm trying to upgrde an old intranet server running gutsy, and surprise surprise, do-release-upgrade -d fails
<awilkins> gutsy?!?
<nucc1> i did a bit of digging, and the reason why it fails is because of broken links for the hardy.tgz file.
<awilkins> Not really a surprise that fails TBH
<nucc1> broken links are bad.
<nucc1> i don't see why the hard-coded path to the release upgrade file had to be changed.
<awilkins> It's been out of support for years, as has the version it wants to upgrade to
<nucc1> yes, it's not supported, but the plan is of course to upgrade until i hit a supported version
<nucc1> to be honest, i could probably play tricks with /etc/hosts until i get the upgrade script to find the files it wants, but then i wonder if it will be able to find the packages afterwards
<nucc1> i was thinking of filing a bug for this.
<nucc1> the release may be unsupported, but the packages are certainly still available to download, and i think moving the files it depends on was probably a bad idea
<nucc1> somehow it seems like i can't report a generic bug on launchpad anymore
<awilkins> I have a Jaunty box running MythTV but I don't think you can even do an apt-get update anymore
<nucc1> you can.
<nucc1> you can install pretty much any package that was available
<nucc1> i don't think going out of support should mean upgrading to a supported version breaks.
<popey> nucc1: two things. 1) don't use -d.
<popey> (that will get you to 15.10 which isn't 'supported')
<nucc1> it doesn't make a difference really
<nucc1> because the script is hard-coded to look for some tgz and gpg files and those all return 404s
<popey> right, but you're issuing the wrong command
<popey> anyway, like you say it won't work anyway
<popey> you could try manually upgrading
<popey> edit sources.list and change gutsy to trusty and do it the manual way
<nucc1> i could edit the sources.list yea
<popey> but that may or may not work
<popey> http://serverfault.com/questions/622735/how-do-i-upgrade-an-end-of-life-ubuntu-distribution
<nucc1> my release is probably too old for that trick to work
<nucc1> because my sources.list already points to old-releases
<nucc1> i'm gonna have to patch the upgrade script
<nucc1> find where the URLs are defined and fix those.
<popey> I'd just dist upgrade (or reinstall)
<nucc1> i tried dist-upgrade
<nucc1> yea, backup and re-install may be how i wind up doing it.
<nucc1> i hope someone with the power to do something reconsiders the idea of moving files around when a release goes out of support.
<popey> they don't move immediately
<popey> gutsy is out of support by _six_ years dude.
<nucc1> yea, i guess, but still leaves a ton of broken stuff behind when files on the net get moved
<nucc1> the files for gutsy don't collide with any other release because of the folder prefix "gutsy".
<popey> thats not the only reason for moving them
<popey> we have a vast mirror network
<popey> they shouldn't have the burdon of holding onto files just because someone somewhere hasn't updated their install 6 years after EOL
<nucc1> the files are still on the main mirrors
<nucc1> someone just thought it was harmless to rename them.
<nucc1> i'm trying to say that it's not harmless.
<popey> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
<popey> no they aren't.
<popey> no, they didn't
<nucc1> they are. just one moment.
<popey> archive.ubuntu.com and old-releases.ubuntu.com are different boxes
<popey> one is mirroed, the other isnt
<nucc1> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/
<popey> yes, that's old-releases
<popey> not mirrored
<nucc1> then at least program the upgrade script to look in old-releases when it gets a 404 from archive.
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors those are the archive mirrors... pick any one randomly, hardy aint there
<popey> again, it would have worked 6 years ago
<nucc1> yes, i know it's my fault.
<popey> stop blaming us for being a bad sysadmin :)
<nucc1> the server isn't that important, that's why it's not got updated :)
<nucc1> it needs updating now, because some newer software is required
<popey> probably better to install LTS
<popey> then this is less frequently going to happen
<nucc1> yes, during the gutsy days, there were no LTS
<popey> yes there were
<popey> 6.06 and 8.04
<nucc1> ah, i see.
<nucc1> oh well.
<popey> I would backup and then see if editing sources.list and changing it from gutsy to precise, then update/dist-upgrade
<popey> and obv change back from old-releases to the real archive
<nucc1> popey: /var/lib/update-manager/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> nucc1: so you have only been running un maintained software for 6 years not bad :)
<nucc1> davmor2:  :) you know the popular saying: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
<davmor2> nucc1: Yeah that doesn't work :P  It's not if it ain't broke forget about it completely :D
<nucc1> if LHR's Air Traffic Control can run 25-year old software, who am I to deviate?
<nucc1> :p
<nucc1> it's like a good wine.
<davmor2> nucc1: well not any more right
<shauno> like a fine wine, in that if it's left exposed it'll get infected and turn to vinegar?
<nucc1> at least i found an interesting bug, no? :)
<nucc1> even though it seems clear it won't be "fixed"
<nucc1> headline: "ubuntu contributing to broken links on the web"
<nucc1> i can assure you, my internet facing boxes are all on 14.04 :)
<nucc1> upgraded from 10.04
<davmor2> popey: also 8.04 was the 6 months after 7.10 g then h ;)  your dapper argument however is well noted :D </pedantic_rant>
<popey> sigh
<popey> my point was he could have gone forward to an LTS
<popey> jeez
<popey> (within the lifetime of the release he has)
<davmor2> popey: noted :)  I was just being pedantic :D
<popey> no, you were being incorrect
<popey> :p
<davmor2> popey: that's not how this reads :P  <nucc1> yes, during the gutsy days, there were no LTS <popey> yes there were <popey> 6.06 and 8.04
<popey> look
<popey> "during gutsy days" could mean "during the support period of gutsy"
<popey> meaning, he _could_ have upgraded
<nucc1> popey:  is right.
<nucc1> i could have upgraded to 8.04
<jpds> I would bin the box and just reinstall it with 14.04.
<shauno> you still can, it just takes a little more effort  (like taking a car out of the shed after 8 years)
<nucc1> patching the files in /var/lib/update-manager/ allows do-release-upgrade to run
<jpds> nucc1: Dude, reinstall.
<nucc1> yes. i will, if this breaks :)
<nucc1> seems like a good place to practice some kung-fu
<jpds> Like practising a karate kick through an open-window.
<nucc1> the box isn't terribly important, this is why it's still on gutsy in the first place
<nucc1> a few hours of downtime won't cause any trouble
<davmor2> popey: fair enough you are right :)
<bashrc> my strategy is always to backup the data and then do a completely new install, rather than upgrade. Upgrade typically takes a lot longer.
<awilkins> Yeah, upgrades take ages
<awilkins> I thought the fashion now was for containerized things rather than special snowflake servers?
 * awilkins ducks
<shauno> bitfolk have a great deal where they'll give you a 'loaner' while you migrate, you just gotta ask nicely.  so I tend to do that
<bashrc> I avoid the snowflake effect by having my own server configuration system. I can reinstall the server from scratch if needed
<foobarry> where did everyone go?
<foobarry> shhh
<davmor2> UOS
<zmoylan-pi> we're hunting wabbit.....
<zmoylan-pi> hand me the holy handgrenade of antioch...
<awilkins> Yes. Ubuntu 15.10. Wascally Wabbit.
<awilkins> (actually Wiley Werewolf and since when is that a real thing?!?)
<zmoylan-pi> there wolf ::points::
<awilkins> Although I suppose Utopic isn't a real animal either
<diplo> davmor2: Most of the active peeps here I doubt are attending UOS :)
<zmoylan-pi> irc lurkers that they are... :-)
<davmor2> diplo: oh you mean the canonical employees and the Ubuntu users no why would they attend ........ wait a minute :P
<diplo> You and popey are really the main 2 canonical employees here, rest aren't that active :)
<diplo> Rest of us lurk and chat about everything apart from ubunut really
<diplo> :D
<foobarry> JamesTait is canonical too?
<foobarry> but he is the daily announcement bot and not a real person :P
<zmoylan-pi> i thought JamesTait was obscure calendar man? :-)
<JamesTait> I am the canonical daily announcement bot.
<diplo> heh, does chat a lot though I meant :)
<JamesTait> I'm mostly just here to poke fun at davmor2.
<diplo> Well that's worth it just for that :)
<JamesTait> I would have to agree.
<JamesTait> It's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, though. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: you don't live far enough away to get clever :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, nobody said anything about clever. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: That's it put the kettle on I'll be there in 30 minutes :p
<JamesTait> ð
<zmoylan-pi> wow, how bad is you kettle?
<Myrtti> 900W probably
<Myrtti> or worse
<diddledan_> quiet in here tonight
<Azelphur> I'll liven it up, my mums in the market for a ~Â£100 Android phone, what's good these days? The best I can come up with is the Nexus 4 but I feel that's a little dated
<diddledan_> hmm, my parents recently got a moto-g
<shauno> hm, what kinda times is MartijnVdS around?
<Azelphur> yea the Moto G is a contender, but still kinda old
<diddledan_> shauno: not sure, afternoons?
<shauno> hm.  awkward.  well, I'll try.  I'm curious to see how he uses his lightswitch :)
<diddledan_> probably to turn on lights?
<diddledan_> :-p
<shauno> right, and what else?
<diddledan_> turn them off again?
<shauno> exactly!
<shauno> I can't find a sensible way to do this
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> are these super intelligent ones that are precursors to judgement day?
<shauno> see, that's why I have to ask him instead of you :)
<diddledan_> hehe
<daftykins> Pavlov's cat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwxSlDg-0DQ
<directhex> Azelphur: at the Â£100 mark, i would 100% buy Windows Phone, not Android.
<ali1234> Azelphur: Moto G got a new version
<ali1234> okay same question as lastnight but this time i need hexadecimal numbers :)
<ali1234> 0000 - FFFF
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> perl :-p
<diddledan_> there's gonna be an obfuscated perl one-liner that'll do it
<shauno> seq & printf?
<diddledan_> seq might work
<directhex> Azelphur: my experience at the Â£80 price point is android is just awful
<diddledan_> seq 0 1024 | printf '%4h' <-- donno the code for a hex output
<diddledan_> printf '\xHHHH'
<diddledan_> that's from the manpage
<shauno> for foo in $(seq 0 16); do printf %x $foo ; done      gets me somewhere, but doesn't give me 000a, just a
<ali1234> the commands i discovered are as follows: ANS, RLS, REJ, MUT, REG, TON, VOL - all without parameter, all obvious meaning
<ali1234> RSI - returns 55, possibly signal strength?
<diddledan_> you'll want "for i in $(seq 0 1024); do hex=$(printf '\xHHHH' "$i"); do_something_with $hex; done"
<ali1234> with parameter: SRV, SRC, EPR, EPW - the last two i believe are eeprom read/write
<dogmatic69> just finnished running update from 14.04 and got this :( http://pastebin.com/eatAXwQJ
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: oh dear
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: that looks painful
<dogmatic69> :(
<diddledan_> seems like it's a circular dependency?
<dogmatic69> there was all sorts of strange...
<ali1234> did oyu try to upgrade from 14.04 to 15.04?
<Azelphur> ali1234: good point
<Azelphur> directhex: I've had no issues at that price point, Nexus 4 is nice
<ali1234> Azelphur: my dad's got a moto g, its good
<ali1234> he has no idea how to use it, it's funny to watch
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: how close to stock Android is it?
<ali1234> pretty close
<directhex> Azelphur: nexus 4 is long-discontinued, and not really relevant to current market
<Azelphur> ali1234: cool, might be the thing to buy then
<ali1234> CSRC appears to mean "scan for registered base station"
<daftykins> Nexus 4s also have many flaws Google seem to not care to fix
<daftykins> e.g. Skype usage with the front-facing camera causes hard locks that only resets can escape
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I just done the update command
<dogmatic69> was told it would do .10 first then 15
<ali1234> dogmatic69 it's supposed to yes
<dogmatic69> http://pastebin.com/EB9DHBNd
<dogmatic69> apt-get upgrade
<dogmatic69> lsb_release shows 14.10... yey?
<dogmatic69> nothing works though....
<dogmatic69> cant open any apps
<ali1234> diddledan_: that doesn't work :(
<ali1234> -bash: printf: missing hex digit for \x
<ali1234> %04x works though
<diddledan_> ali1234: my manpage sucks then :-p
<diddledan_> at least you got it going
<ali1234> 16^4 > 26^3
<ali1234> this is going to take hours
<diddledan_> eep
<dogmatic69> should I -f install?
<dogmatic69> there is a lot of broken stuff
<ali1234> i suspect the eeprom isn't a full 64k though
<ali1234> probably more like 64 bytes
<diddledan_> 64kBit?
<shauno> or what they're using vs what was cheap in bulk aren't the same thing (usually my case)
<diddledan_> maybe
<ali1234> seems to be mostly full of FF
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> FF FTW WTF?
<ali1234> huh, apparently this isn't a hex number at all
<shauno> (wonder if it'd be quicker to tap the i2c directly though, most of them will operate on pages)
<ali1234> oh no, wait, i need the hex number to be upper case
<diddledan_> eww
<ali1234> how do i turn a string to upper case in bash :)
<diddledan_> tr to the rescue
<shauno> yeah, tr [:lower:] [:upper:]
<ali1234> got it
<shauno> I think.  it's an odd construct like that anyway
<diddledan_> or tr '[a-f]' '[A-F]'
<shauno> iirc [a-f] actually calls 6 instances of tr.  or 26 for the full alphabet.  if you use tr's :stuff: you avoid that.
<diddledan_> really?
<ali1234> lower/upper probably breaks slightly less on unicode too
<diddledan_> even in single-quoted strings?
<shauno> not that there's a huge hit, but I seem to recall that being why :stuff: exists
<dogmatic69> more errors http://paste.ubuntu.com/11000994/
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: step away from the computer. you're killing it!
<dogmatic69> its dead jim...
<shauno> I feel a bit rude talking over the top of dogmatic69, so I'll point out I'm not ignoring you, I just don't feel confident offering advice when you're on thin ice
<ali1234> maybe i'm really lucky and the eeprom contains the full executable code
<ali1234> that would be awesome
<ali1234> doubt it though
<dogmatic69> shauno: no prob, just posting details in the hopes that it will be familiar to someone :S
<diddledan_> I have no idea. apt is a black box to me when it blows up
<dogmatic69> well, -f it is...
<ali1234> i would just reinstall
<dogmatic69> if I get DC'ed its cos I gone f*ed up :D
<ali1234> in fact that's what i always do now after this happened one time too many
<shauno> I'd backup All The Things and then torture it out of curiousity
<dogmatic69> ali1234: that is a good idea, been running since 11
<shauno> like ar'ing the relevant debs straight into root and worrying about apt later ;)
<dogmatic69> well everything important is on raid, only reason to not reformat is not sure I can get the raid working again :/
<diddledan_> shauno: you're a computer's worst nightmare - you rip drives out of them and all sorts of evilness
<shauno> that's not evil!  drives are evil!
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> you make frankenstrin monsters tho
<shauno> that reminds me, I bought some presents for my amiga :)
<ali1234> i once hotswapped an IDE drive
<diddledan_> itwouldn't be too much of anissue except that it's usually a mac you're frankensteining
<shauno> I hotplugged a soundcard once.  by accident.  it was hilarious
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> I've only ever hotplugged things that were designed for such things
<shauno> it was a very poorly machine - I had a shoestring holding the card in.  it went wrong
<shauno> my music cut out, the terminal started filling up with DMA errors.  so I plugged it back in and it all went back to normal
<diddledan_> back when I was running my own personal cluster I had a propensity of pullingdrives out of the hardware raid and watching it rebuild when I put them back again
<diddledan_> shauno: wow that's awesome
<diddledan_> and hilarious
<diddledan_> computer be like "where'd my limb go? oh there it is"
<shauno> I was surprised, because it was an ISA card, nothing fancy at all.  but I never tried it again
<shauno> (a proper sb16 - the age when structually supporting a computer with shoestrings was acceptable)
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> I mean, stupid but acceptable
<daftykins> i dunno i'd totally fit SSDs by tying them down
<daftykins> or up...
<diddledan_> my aftermarket ssds are all just dangling
<diddledan_> there's no moving parts so they're unlikely to wander off
<daftykins> *nod*
<shauno> by time that machine finally died, I had most of it using twine & shoelaces.  mounts seem quite expensive when your paperroute is a pound a day
<shauno> (I'm not nuts, the board just didn't fit the chassis.  it was an old 386 server chassis that didn't seem to want to take anything.  so everything just kinda got stuffed in there)
<daftykins> pound a day! good lord
<ali1234> there seems to be at least 0x200 bytes of data in this eeprom...
<ali1234> quite a lot of "FF" but also plenty of data too
<ali1234> got to write a better dumper script
<shauno> I still think you should tickle the chip directly :)  I'd be very surprised if it doesn't let you dump 256-byte pages
<ali1234> i would do but the i2cbus is 2.5V
<shauno> hm.  that's an awkward number.  trying to send 5 & 3.3 between the arduino & pi is bad enough
<ali1234> i2c is usually okay is the slave is higher voltage than the master
<shauno> hm .. I never thought to try
<shauno> I think because I've been fiddling with this little oscillator chip that no-one seems to want to sell.  so I'm terrified of breaking it
<ali1234> this does look a lot like 256 byte pages with lots of FF at the end of the pages
<dogmatic69> I think I cracked it
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: oh dear
<dogmatic69> in a good way...
<dogmatic69> apt-get upgrade is running
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: oh deasr
<dogmatic69> fingers crossed...
<diddledan_> :-p
<shauno> it wouldn't be unusual if they've got more space than they need (or at least, enough that they don't have to pennypinch).  pages are so so much faster
<dogmatic69> I had a custom line in rc.local
<diddledan_> >.<
<diddledan_> oops
<dogmatic69> commented that out...
<ali1234> i was about to say "seems to be 1KB" then i remembered that i've seen the picture frame thing read 0x0610 at boot up (version number maybe?)
<diddledan_> you mean you did something "unusual"?!
<diddledan_> dogmatic69: you were informed that computers aren't designed to be used, right?
<shauno> is the eeprom epoxied?  or can you read a label :)
<dogmatic69> diddledan_: oh, that is my problem right there..
<diddledan_> yeah, you need to learn not to do anything. ever.
<shauno> most I've come across act like clones of atmel's, and usually ape the model numbers too, makes them quite easy to look up
<dogmatic69> nope, not working
<dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1385817
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1385817 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "initscripts package fails to upgrade if there are local init scripts on the system with no LSB headers" [High,Triaged]
<shauno> (although 'I've come across' is a small sample set  heh)
<dogmatic69> that seems like an issue
<diddledan_> dangh
<ali1234> shauno: it has something printed on it but it is unreadable even with a microscope
<ali1234> read 4KB now and it is still producing data... but it could have looped around
<shauno> that' something I'm loving messing with z80s for.  everything's big enough that they can label it well.  and if you're at a loss, you can just count the address pins
<shauno> hell, some of these chips are big enough I'm surprised they don't print the datasheet on it
<daftykins> they probably could in micro print, i remember going to miniature world (might be the name?) in Jersey. A place where there's just tonnes of tiny stuff :D
<ali1234> ATJ2085 was fun - a z80 based MP3 player SoC :)
<shauno> there's a bunch of soc stuff for z80.  zilog are still milking it
<shauno> complete tangent .. anyone got the remotest inclincling re: data over the iphone headphone jack?
<ali1234> context?
<shauno> I have an app called 'triggertrap' which uses a headphone cable connected to a dongle, which fires the remote on my camera
<shauno> for timelapses & such
<ali1234> those usually work by having a wire connected to an ADC
<shauno> I'm trying to see how to replicate this with anything else that has a headphone jack.  recording it just gives clicking noises, and playing them back into the same dongle doesn't do much
<ali1234> and a bunch of different resistors
<ali1234> oh it works off the audio signal?
<shauno> well that's what I'm trying to figure out.  if the phone can send over things over the same jack
<ali1234> no idea on that one
<ali1234> you'd have to get an oscilloscope connected i guess
<shauno> probably.  been trying to avoid that because it means going to work on a day off :/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-07
<shauno> I'm kinda hoping it's just audio though.  because I want to see if I can replicate it on the ubuntu phone, so only expecting the headphone to do what it says on the tin, seems much easier
<ali1234> http://paste.debian.net/172258/
<ali1234> seems to be 4KB
<ali1234> looks kinds like a firmware, and then a data section at 0x600
<ali1234> i guess it could also be the encryption keys
<shauno> heh, meaningless to me
<shauno> although if that was the firmware, I'd kinda expect to see ANS & co in there as literal strings?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it could be the firmware for the serial -> whatever microcontroller
<ali1234> if it just passes stuff straight through
<ali1234> but that seems unlikely
<ali1234> must be the encryption keys really
<moreati> shauno: could you wire your own cable to feed the left (and/or) right headphone output of the iphone, to the mic in on you laptop - then just use audacity to record the output of triggertrap?
<shauno> that's pretty much what I've tried, but it doesn't end up with anything usable
<shauno> I suspect if it is sending actual signals, they'd be square waves on the wire, and my soundcard's probably not going to capture that properly
<shauno> otoh, the app on the phone tells you to turn the headphone volume up full, so I'd have thought if there was some magical "send data out" mode, that wouldn't be required
<ali1234> yeah it won't be sending data with magic APIs
<moreati> shauno: the app wil be limited to audio frequencies signals that the iphone can play. AFAIK the headphone port doesn't do anything your laptop's headphone port could also do
<shauno> right, I guess that's what I was asking.  since I know there's other dongles that live on the iphone headphone (like the Square creditcard readers) I wasn't sure if the phone did something interesting to accomodate those, or if they're all just hack
<moreati> shauno: iphone -> world doesn't do anything special. There is a custom protocol for world -> iphone on the microphone wire. That's for play/pause/volume etc
<moreati> namely http://david.carne.ca/shuffle_hax/shuffle_remote.html
<shauno> this is what I get off it; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23042/trigger.wav
<shauno> but playing that back into the dongle does nothing
<moreati> shauno: WHat input did you use to record that? It's stereo so I'm guessing line in
<shauno> bingo
<shauno> (I don't have mic in on my laptop because apple are weird, and didn't bother fishing out my little usb soundcard because I figured headphone level would swamp mic-in anyway)
<moreati> shauno: IIRC line level signals are lower voltage than headphone level. Is it possible what your recording is clipped?
<moreati> Can you just plug headphones into your iphone and listen to the signal directly? Perhaps use a Y splitter to be plugged into the dongle simultaneously
<shauno> it shouldn't be.  it was the first time (audacity shows them nice big & red), so I turned the volume down one notch and tried again, now they don't go red & don't hit the ceiling
<shauno> it just sounds like clicks in headphones
<moreati> ok, sounds reasonable
<shauno> it' got me stumped because, as you said, you'd expect some very mundane limits to what the headphone port can do - somewhere around 40/44/48k of boringness
<moreati> another shot in the dark: if the dongle uses ultrasonic carriers then your recording at 44.1 kHz could be distorting it, recording at 48 kHz would rule that out
<shauno> HAH
<shauno> my soundcard *is* on 48, audacity doesn't seem to see this
<shauno> if I get them to agree with each other, it comes out as a really annoying tone instead
<moreati> sounds more promising
<ali1234> seems like the soundcard might have jitter
<ali1234> which might affect the ability of it to work
<shauno> hm.  weird, but working
<shauno> if I record with audacity set on the wrong rate, it sounds like clicks, and if I push the gain, it still sounds like clicks
<shauno> at 48 or 96, it still sounds like clicks, but if I push the gain, now it sounds like tones ... and the camera works
<ali1234> i just learned a new tool... binwalk
<moreati> shauno: looks like one channel controls focus and the other the shutter http://www.diyphotography.net/building-diy-trigger-trap/
<shauno> hm.  if that circuit's similar to the original, any loud noise should work
<moreati>   shauno: not necessarily, it may require a particular frequency. Also the necessary waveform probably varies by camera manufacturer/model
<shauno> oh sheesh.  audacity's "click track" works, you just have to push it until it clips
<shauno> I've been so obsessed with figuring out what these clicks were, I hadn't thought to just yell down the wire
<shauno> well, that's going to make things much easier lol .. thanks
<shauno> (and nice that the dongle looks very easy to replicate.  they started off all nice and free on arduino, and morphed it into a "noooo, mine" smartphone world)
<shauno> but the arduino version didn't use the dongle (going to audio and back would make no sense), so it didn't help me much
<moreati> glad I could help, now time for bed
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> ;]
<mappps> this ch4 show first dates is just brilliant
<mappps> so many fools
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> yo
<elfy> yo ahoy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<elfy> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<zmoylan-1i> o/
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo how am ya chap long time no annoy I must get back on track with that :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i've missed your trolling ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a better scope on your rifle perhaps? :-P
<davmor2> Yeah I have a my ethernet working again \o/ it only took an hour and a half of reading bits and pieces till I found a random link to a kernel bug and the alx driver \o/
<davmor2> in not and
<directhex> alx bugs?
<directhex> tell me more
<directhex> i'm using alx
<directhex> popey: those poor laptop users :(
<davmor2> directhex: apparently the driver would allow the ethernet to work for 1-2 seconds and then on receiving the first packet over run.
<directhex> davmor2: huh. which network chip?
<davmor2> directhex:  AR8161 Gigabit Ethernet
<davmor2> directhex: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70761
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 70761 in Network "AR8161 wir alx driver: Randomly stops to receive packets with small MTU" [Normal,New]
<directhex> hm. wonder if it's silicon-specific, and wonder if i'm fine on my default MTU
<davmor2> directhex: you would know within 5 seconds if there were an issue or not, apparently it was fine in 14.04, flakey in 14.10 and then just refuses to work in 15.04 even though the driver itself by all accounts hasn't changed since 2012 by all accounts
<directhex> i'm using 15.04 fine with alx
<davmor2> directhex: I have the Lenovo y580 which is the laptop that seems to feature the most on bug
<directhex> yeah, lots of y580s on that bug
<directhex> maybe a firmware issue
<directhex> can't be a coincidence that only lenovo users have it
<davmor2> directhex: indeed
<davmor2> directhex: apparently it was affecting dell users too
<foobarry> davmor2: did you test the beta?
<foobarry> did it get flagged up before release?
<davmor2> foobarry: I was a beta tester but I was using wifi which works fine. But I noticed that transfers were slower as the chipset doesn't use 5g only 2.4g so now I am using it as my main pc I hooked up the ethernet and the networking died
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Roast Leg Of Lamb Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<zmoylan-pi> and not vegemite chocolate day? http://www.independent.ie/life/food-drink/food-news/cadbury-confirm-a-vegemite-flavour-chocolate-bar-is-in-the-pipeline-31202508.html
<popey> directhex: wat wat wat?
<directhex> popey: your AMD ubuntu laptop retweet
<popey> ah yes
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, the date is wrong on that article. Should be April 1st. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: It's not Sunday there is no time to be roasting legs of lamb
<JamesTait> davmor2, that's one of the benefits of working from home!
<MooDoo> working from home would be cool
<zmoylan-pi> your lunches in the fridge would be untouched
<davmor2> JamesTait: you are meant to be working not tending a flock of sheep so you can have legs of lamb on tap :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, if your taps are emitting legs of lamb, you need to get your plumbing checked.
<JamesTait> Or tell me how you did it.
<zmoylan-pi> or open a butchers...
<davmor2> You mean yours don't
<foobarry> how do i find the authoritative name server for a dns entry?
<foobarry> wnat to see the TTL rather than time left
<nucc1> look what what NS is listed in the DNS recordes
<foobarry> with dig?
<nucc1> i imagine you could, i'd personally use a GUI.
<nucc1> but if you can do an NS query for the name
<foobarry> which one?
<nucc1> http://network-tools.com/
<nucc1> http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=gmail.com
<nucc1> the two NS records in that page are the authoritative name servers for gmail.com
<nucc1> well, there are 3 NS records, but you get what I mean :)
<foobarry> times out for my entry...weird
<nucc1> if your dns name is not on the public internet...
<foobarry> it is :D
<nucc1> if you don't mind sharing the name...
<foobarry> Pm'd you
<foobarry> but I can now query internally so i think i have the info now, cheers
<nucc1> cool
<nucc1> looks like the delegation is only done for internal users then :)
<NET||abuse> hi folks, casting the net out there for London City area jobs.. Just wrapping up contract in a week, need to get on the hunt :) Anyone know any good places hiring? Devops roles.
<foobarry> NET||abuse: i know a good london agency
<foobarry> for linux devops roles
<foobarry> pm'd
<MooDoo> anyone know if there are any teaboy jobs going at canonical lol
<NET||abuse> foobarry: cheers, though for perm roles, i'm attempting to find direct application options.
<foobarry> we hired 2 perms roles from them too
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<NET||abuse> who's peeps?
<foobarry> took us about 18 months to hire
<NET||abuse> yeh, ouch, it's a hard task getting a reasonable candidate,
<NET||abuse> COFFEEEE!!!
<NET||abuse> back in 10
<foobarry> we found some who had unrealistic salary expetations, others who just lived too far etc
<foobarry> and plenty of numpties
<bashrc> if it's the centre of London then you need a centre of London realistic salary to be able to live somewhere in the area
<foobarry> its zone2
<foobarry> you could live in the slums and travel cheaply to work
<foobarry> and still get decent salary
<Laney> slums, shit commute, shit salary
<foobarry> the salary is decent, some people don't understand why
<Laney> soudns like a great package to me :P
<foobarry> pro rata i believe it is better value than the banks..
<JamesTait> Holy cannoli, I think the apocalypse is here. The sky's gone black and it's raining and hailing like there's no tomorrow.
<bashrc> one strategy which seems to work where I am is to employ a hardhore of hackers and then just employ recent PhDs who like Linux. Even if they know nothing to begin with people who are intelligent will learn quickly and after a few months they're pretty much as good as the rest
<bashrc> s/hardhore/hardcore
<foobarry> yeah, we tried attracting some phds
<foobarry> some are weird. they think a paid job is an excuse to still continue their research
<foobarry> no..you will have other things to do instead. "oh, and what about my research?" i don't think you're ready for a salaried post..
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> JamesTait: keep your rain it's sunny down south!
<directhex> just had a downpour
<JamesTait> czajkowski, thank you - now you've jinxed it, maybe it'll head down there!
<directhex> with car plugged in. blerf
<nucc1> bashrc and you use phd as a proxy for intelligent?
<davmor2> JamesTait: I told you worship Thor but you insisted your god was the only one ;)
<bashrc> nucc1: the place I'm at does. Roughly an indication that someone is able to learn complicated things
<nucc1> bashrc: yea, it's fair. I just hope it's not an "if you don't have a PhD, we won't talk to you" policy though. :)
<shauno> I'm not sure a phd actually shows whether they can or cannot learn.  if anything, it shows they have the ability to survive years-long projects
<nucc1> ultimately, it proves very little to be honest, but as far as a filtering mechanism, if you draw randomly from a set of PhDs, i think your score for above average intelligence would be higher.
<bashrc> nucc1: I don't have a phd, so that's not necessarily a barrier, particularly if you're already a known hacker with a track record
<shauno> (but far too often it just means the person deciding has a phd and is still trying to convince himself it's value outside of academia.  yes I'm biased lol)
<bashrc> phd really just indicates that someone has studied some complicated topic in depth
<awilkins> Some of the worse code I've ever seen came from a PhD
<awilkins> *wrost
<awilkins> arrgh
<awilkins> *worst
<awilkins> My organization basically bought the fruits of his PhD project I think
<awilkins> It was TERRIBLE
<awilkins> He essentially re-implemented RCS, but badly, and in a KV store, and without any kind of client program to make it easier to use
<awilkins> As a versioned object store (for one kind of object)
<awilkins> 500,000 lines of Java-big-ball-of-mud
<awilkins> He had classes that implemented 12 (twelve!!) interfaces, had over 200 methods
<awilkins> Many of the interfaces inherited each other
<davmor2> awilkins: let me guess you reimplemented it in 5 lines of python
<awilkins> davmor2, No
<awilkins> davmor2, I did develop a plan to reimplement it properly, but $$ had been spent on it. Full on sunk-cost-fallacy inertia
<awilkins> At the beginning of the project immediately after acquisition I recommended that it was thrown away and started again from scratch.
<awilkins> 4-5 years later they were still pouring money into the pit
<davmor2> awilkins: hahahahaha sounds about right
<MooDoo> awilkins: give davmor2 a tenner and he'll fix it for you ;)
<awilkins> User preferences AND global application logic were stored in a binary-serialized blob
<awilkins> Ugh, I'm going to stop
<awilkins> I wrote a report on how bad it was once, I could go on for hours
<Flashtek> lol
<Flashtek> sounds about right
<davmor2> well I can break it for you
<awilkins> One more horror for you : the class that implemented 12 interfaces was also a generic, defined in terms of a class that took itself as a parameter
<awilkins> Yes, there was code that was it's own grandpa
<awilkins> public abstract class ConceptComponent<R extends Revision<R, C>, C extends ConceptComponent<R, C>>
<awilkins>         implements I_AmTermComponent, I_AmPart<R>, I_AmTuple<R>, I_Identify, IdBI, I_IdPart, I_IdVersion,
<awilkins>         I_HandleFutureStatusAtPositionSetup
 * awilkins shudders
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/eYlJH81dSiw
<ne2k> Java and the Java universe does tend to lend itself to that sort of horror
<directhex> java!
<awilkins> The diagram in that is about the same as the class diagrams involved.
<awilkins> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/ConceptComponent.png
<awilkins> Methods omitted, because you only have so many pixels
<awilkins> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/Description.png
<awilkins> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/doomcloud.png
<czajkowski> JamesTait: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/596273052033404928
<JamesTait> czajkowski, cute! But you'll have to try harder than that to get me to tell you what the weather is like here now. ð
<bashrc> awilkins: coding is really a skill and having code review goes a long way towards improving the quality
<bashrc> and also transfering knowledge from elder hackers
 * davmor2 looks at phone to see what the weather up T'north is like.......T'north not found must be an app written by a Londoner JamesTait :D
<daftykins> wow not all telco engineers are blessed with social skills
<daftykins> Mr.Grumpy was there this morning at a friends place :)
<awilkins> bashrc, This guy was older than me .. but clearly not a hacker
<bashrc> the point being that if you have a good process with code review then it's easier for beginners to learn how to code well
<awilkins> It was tools for managing a somewhat large graph of objects
<awilkins> Yeah, he worked on it alone for 5 years I think
<awilkins> I agree
<awilkins> You do improve
<awilkins> Been having to write VBA code recently to do reports because bossman insists that the timesheets get done in Excel
<bashrc> sounds hellish
<awilkins> I am staggered at just how radically different the VBA code I write now is from the VB / VBscript code I wrote 10 years ago
 * bashrc hasn't written any VB code for 10+ years
<awilkins> I got to being a pretty good VB6 developer (as in, total wizard, could write VB code that did things faster than the runtime libraries did it)
<awilkins> I refuse to learn VB.NET because it will erase my VB6 EEPROMS
<awilkins> VB6 is like the COBOL of my generation - retirement plan language
 * daftykins wonders if a tazer would wipe awilkins
<MooDoo> daftykins: only one way to find out......TTTAAAZZZEEERRRRR
<daftykins> 8D
<awilkins> Don't taze me, bro!
 * daftykins glances down at the two smoking electrodes protruding from awilkins' abdomen
<davmor2> oh man now you made awilkins mad, you won't like him when he is angry :D
<awilkins> If it kills a few fat cells, meh
<foobarry> why put calorific values per 100g and then don pu the weight on the pack
<daftykins> Admiral Ackbar would have something to say about that
<shauno> they like to pretend you're not going to eat the whole pack
<foobarry> i want to know in case i need to buy a mars bar to supplement it
<shauno> like novelty-sized energy drinks giving you info per 100ml
<popey> Afternoon slackers
<daftykins> o/
<davmor2> popey: you just got up and then have the nerve to call us slackers :P
<popey> lies
<nigelb> Hello yourself, popey
<Seeker`> popey: you made me dizzy!
<popey> :)
 * Seeker` eyes popey's latest tweet, wonders if he realises it's almost 3pm :P
<popey> ya
<foobarry> who are all these people on facebook saying every vote counts?
<Laney> people that don't live in a safe seat
<foobarry> only the winners votes count!
<zmoylan-pi> first past the post silly system
<zmoylan-pi> proportional representation is where real chaos lies :-)
<mappps> how do they find such thickos
<mappps> girl on first dates doesn't realise belgium is its own country
<mappps> somehow thinks its germany
<mappps> ;[
<foobarry> one girl said "i didn't know you could get egyptians nowadays. i thought they were only in old times"
<foobarry> the blokes face was :-O
<mappps> hahahahahahahah yea
<mappps> honestly it's incredible
<zmoylan-pi> well in her defence germany sometimes thinks it's theirs too... :-P
<foobarry> its just a freak show
<mappps> this girl was from essex..doing wonders for the essex stereotype
<mappps> she then asks if the UK is in europe
<mappps> that's a girl icertainly wouldn't want to take on my travels ...too stupid
<zmoylan-pi> but is it because she's an idiot or because she got a uk education?
<mappps> an idiot
<mappps> the  education is fine..thickos just like to blame schools and teachers
<mappps> we dont have a whole country of morons..a  lot..yes..but not 100%
<mappps> the people that say school's a waste of time and doss about/don't go..
<shauno> I think it's a cultural issue where it's simply "uncool" to do too well at school
<mappps> yep
<zmoylan-pi> bring back the days when it was cool for the teachers to beat the information into them... :-P
<shauno> I had a really strange conversation with my little sister when she found out how much I earn.  she was trying to figure out how many multiples of the minimum wage it was
<shauno> she's mid-20s, and still doen't seem to grasp that minimum wage isn't a target
<foobarry> my salary peaked around 2005
<zmoylan-pi> it is sadly for some
<foobarry> or nearer 2000
<foobarry> i use the yardstick of "you are well off if your salary in K is more than your age in years"
<zmoylan-pi> can't use the thatcher if your cycling to work one anymore :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or was she on about the buses...
<mappps> n&p closed my account due to my 'conduct'
<mappps> pretty annoying
<foobarry> overdrawn?
<mappps> had a balance there but only ever used it for gambling
<mappps> and sometimes abroad
<foobarry> i have 11Â£ in a N&P account that i never got bac
<mappps> got a nasty letter telling me theyre closing it..i carried on using it lol
<mappps> they then told me its still due for closure
<mappps> asked if they'd transfer the balance to a diff ac in my name ..nope
<mappps> they'd only send me a cheque..how helpful
<mappps> I'm not in the uk:P so i didn't want a cheque
<mappps> but didnt want to mention that to them
<foobarry> say you can't trust your mailbox
<foobarry> you live with a pet chimp who rips up cheques
<shauno> not sure that'd help, they'd probably offer that he can come into the branch with ID and collect
<mappps> nevermind
<mappps> new bank opening here soon..got an appointment 20th may:D
<mappps> gib national bank!
<mappps> barclays/natwest stopped taking customers here..and are closing..i guess because they're gonna run their own bank
<daftykins> found diddledan :D https://i.imgur.com/ZpY9xAN.webm
<nucc1> mapps, i think it's a grave mistake to conflate ignorance with stupidity.
<shauno> I never realised how similar oxford & cambridge look.  or at least, I didn't know they had exactly the same busses
<directhex> looks like an enviro 400h to me
<directhex> stagecoach run busses in most of the UK
<diddledan> lol, daftykins , that's awesome
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> so should I buy an E4.5?
<diddledan> just to see what all the fuss is about :-p
<directhex> ?
<diddledan> http://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5
<awilkins> My daughter just had her phone nicked. Should I get an ubuntuphone for her?
<popey> :(
<popey> does she use whatsapp?
<awilkins> No
<popey> seems to be the main question :)
<popey> what does she use?
<awilkins> I don't get WhatsApp at all
<diddledan> I don't even know what whatsapp does
<awilkins> It was an Android phone
<popey> wat
<popey> it's IM
<popey> with voice, photo, video sharing and groups and stuff
<diddledan> so it's skype?
<awilkins> So, it's Google Talk?
<diddledan> :-p
<awilkins> Hangouts/Whatever
<diddledan> awilkins: jinx, sorta
<awilkins> Basically it's spreading the NSA "donations" to another company?
<diddledan> we could be standards compliant and say "so it's webrtc?"
<awilkins> I like that
<awilkins> I wish all the flipping webconf companies would all go WebRTC
<diddledan> aye
<awilkins> And just trade on the extras they added like collaborative document editing
<diddledan> I'm glad firefox are on-board with their hello thing
<awilkins> WebRTC + Operational Transform document editor 4tw]
<awilkins> We have to use this thing that doesn't work on Linux
<diddledan> webex?
<diddledan> seems everyone businessy want their employees to use webex
<diddledan> it's even a verb to some folk
<diddledan> "webex me"
<awilkins> Webex works on Linux
<diddledan> nowai
<awilkins> It even works properly if you try
<awilkins> I have an /opt/webex folder with a working install of the environment you need
<awilkins> Webex is basically a Java app with links to 32-bit native DLLs
<awilkins> So you need a 32-bit Firefox / Java combo
<awilkins> Then it all works, the audio, the annotations, etc
<awilkins> GotoMeeting, that doesn't work on Linux, not the native client
<awilkins> But they now have a limited WebRTC client that can join meetings at least
<awilkins> As soon as someone comes up with a shiny WebRTC client that offers all the wingwangs that WebEx and GotoMeeting have they are...well, going to coast on with their inertia
 * bashrc has heard people complaining about WebEx, but knows nothing about it
<diddledan> I suppose I should go vote
<dutchie> got a whole 4 and a bit hours yet!
<zmoylan-pi> could be a queue
<popey> there was a UKIP woman lurking outside the polling station where I was.
<diddledan> grr @ ukip
<simondbull> popey, did anything controversial slip out of her mouth?
<dutchie> i managed to restrain myself from starting an argument with the ukip campaigners outside the supermarket last weekend
<popey> simondbull: only "thank you"
<Laney> the tellers aren't allowed to be political
<bashrc> are they not allowed to vote?
<Laney> while telling
<Laney> one of our councillors was doing it when i voted earlier
<bashrc> I guess by not being political you mean that they shouldn't be encouraging voters to vote one way or another at the ballot box
<Laney> they are only there to record who has voted
<popey> she didnt seem interested in tat
<popey> *that
<popey> had no clipboard or owt
<popey> also, discovered my neighbour from 2 doors down is a Green party candidate for the council
<popey> which surprised me, didn't know
<Laney> guessing they didn't campaign much then
<popey> yeah
<popey> solid Tory round here
<popey> not much point it seems
<Laney> kind of the same here (but Labour)
<Laney> Greens managed to get a full set of candidates but they didn't really bother campaigning
<Laney> for the council, this is
<Laney> Not going to change the system by giving in to it
<Laney> suppose it is early days for them as a larger party...
<popey> https://twitter.com/DaphneFlap is funny
<popey> usually tweets pics of the cat coming and going
 * Laney goes climbing so that he can be back before The Vote on More4
<Laney> tara
<popey> o/
<zmoylan-pi> the greens did campaign but didn't use electricity, snail mail or cars or vans to do so...
<directhex> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/620712999971814660/
<diddledan> directhex: I've added it to my mirroring torrent thingy
<directhex> \o/
<directhex> should have no speed limiting set, but it's slow anyway
<directhex> traffic shaping by BT maybe
<directhex> pushing to someone running Deluge 1.3.11.0
<diddledan> I've got a 31.5 ratio on the 153plus2 release (previous version to this one?)
<directhex> diddledan: yes, that was the previous release
<diddledan> just fyi - while the readme has the correct .horse address the github metadata (at the top of the file list) has a github.io address which 404s: https://github.com/steamos-community/stephensons-rocket
<diddledan> and directhex.github.io (without the /stephensons-rocket suffix) shows an older version of the page with very out-of-date info (as far as I can see)
<popey> directhex: is steam buggered?
<popey> yes, it is
<directhex> diddledan: fixed
<dogmatic69> guys, I think I have fixed my borked upgrade..
<awilkins_> Anyone who hasn't yet voted you're VERY NAUGHTY, polling stations close in 49 mins, get your butt out there
<awilkins_> Unless you vote Tory, 'natch
<dogmatic69> cant remember who was around last night 20ish hours ago
<awilkins_> Borked upgrade from the 6 years out of date distro?
<shauno> I think 6 years was someone with a shorter nick
<shauno> iirc dogmatic69 just had a bumpy ride trying to skip one coming up to current?
<dogmatic69> nope, 14.04 -> 14.10
<dogmatic69> totally crashed
<dogmatic69> this seems to be the problem https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1385817
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1385817 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "initscripts package fails to upgrade if there are local init scripts on the system with no LSB headers" [High,Triaged]
<dogmatic69> someone in there asked for new tickets with output which I posted https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1452505
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1452505 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "install broken after upgrading from 14.04 -> 14.10" [Undecided,New]
<dogmatic69> I have now added the comments per the last comment on the first bug and its runnning so far...
<dogmatic69> still a couple errors happened but mostly seems working now
<dogmatic69> wow, pc seems considerably more snappy on 14.10
<dogmatic69> ok, anyone know how I can format reinstall 15.04 and then make my software RAID1 work again without formatting the raid?
<dogmatic69> the raid is not my boot drive btw...
<diddledan> surely it'll "just work"?
<awilkins_> Polls close in 45 seconds
<ali1234> okay i'm dumping the firmware from the picture frame CPU... the part that would normally talk to the baseband stack
<ali1234> it's in a SPI eeprom ;)
<diddledan> I thought you were fiddling with a DECT handset?
<ali1234> i am
<diddledan> o_O
<ali1234> it's not a handset though
<ali1234> it's a picture frame which has a DECT baseband and handsfree built in and shows a picture of who is calling you when they call
<Laney> holy shit
<Laney> that exit poll
<diddledan> Laney: ?
<diddledan> what did I miss?
 * diddledan plops the beeb on
<Laney>  EXIT POLL: Conservatives largest party with 316 seats, Lab 239, LD 10, SNP 58, UKIP 2, Green 2, PC 4, Others 19.
<diddledan> LD 10?!
<diddledan> wow
<directhex> that's the exit poll. i hope it's nonsense
<directhex> if not, the coalition remains entrenched
<Laney> was pretty good last time
<ali1234> how many do they need for a majority again?
<Laney> 323 discounting sinn fein
<Laney> that's quite skinny without any others
<directhex> ali1234: technically 326. but sinn fein won't show up, so that means 2 or 3 off the required total
<diddledan> how have libdems dropped to a measly 10?!
<diddledan> that's shoddy for them if true
<ali1234> why?
<directhex> why what?
<ali1234> why is it shoddy?
<diddledan> because that's a big loss compared to last time
<ali1234> it's about what everyone expected
<diddledan> it's still shoddy for them
<Laney> you expected 57 -> 10?
<ali1234> yes
<Laney> not what I heard at all
<ali1234> didn't everyone?
<Laney> you should go into psephology
<ali1234> tbh i reckon a lot of embarassed UKIP voters have said they voted tory
<ali1234> SNP probably wont get that many seats
<ali1234> and LD will probably get a bit more than 10, but not much
<awilkins_> Exit polling suggests SNP hold every seat but 1 in Scotland
<awilkins_> Arrgh
<ali1234> arrgh?
<awilkins_> I really hope there is a massive flaw in the exit polls
<ali1234> what's wrong with the SNP?
<awilkins_> No, arrgh Tories
<awilkins_> Don't mind the SNP
<ali1234> haha
<ali1234> the real tragedy is we'll get another five years of murdoch being that actual ruler of the country
<diddledan> lolo
<diddledan> I shouldn't laugh
<Myrtti> I've already learnt to rejoice in small mercies wrt elections back from the Finnish one. Although we heard from the future prime minister today what the coalition back home will be like and it's grim, let me tell you
<diddledan> but funny
<Myrtti> griimmmm.
<diddledan> Myrtti: :-(
<awilkins_> Aren't they going to try out Basic Income in Finland?
<Myrtti> centre-right, with some really conservative values in 2/3rds of the party leaders. One is even Catholic Millwall supporter.
<Myrtti> awilkins_: not really
<Myrtti> where not really means no
<Myrtti> and especially now, not.
<awilkins_> Bah.
<Laney> waiting for the flood
<Laney> come on!
<daftykins> the what?
<Laney> flood
<OerHeks> waiting for Progress59 to splash ?
<Laney> quite soon many seats will declare
<directhex> it's slow until around 1:30am, when dozens declare at once
<daftykins> oh politics
 * daftykins switches off and wanders off :D
 * Laney does some election night washing up
<daftykins> :>
<directhex> election night dishwasher is running
<popey> suppose I should empty the dishwasher
<popey> don't announce anything till I'm back y'hear!
<OerHeks> I am ... <pause>
 * OerHeks goes for an election-night-chihuahua-walk
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-08
<daftykins> ooh mini dog
<intrbiz> election night beer here
<shauno> ch4's coverage is so cringy I'm embarrassed to admit I'm enjoying it
<daftykins> different government bed night here :>
<daftykins> have they cracked out a tag cloud yet?
<daftykins> "here's some meaningless rubbish that keeps at least one extraneous staff member employed"
<Seeker`> that exit poll certainly made things interesting
<intrbiz> indeed
<intrbiz> the change away from lib dem is severe so far
 * popey returns from election-night dishwasher-empty-and-refill with election-night wine and election-night hula-hoops
<popey> living the dream
<daftykins> which flavour hula hoops? ... it's important
<popey> ready salted
<popey> first ones that came out of the cupboard
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i think McCoys reign #1 for me still
<daftykins> of all such savoury snacks
<popey> only saw them because I was putting away election-night chinese-take-away containers which live in the same cupboard as election-night hula-hoops
<popey> now, if we're talking about the king of snacks...
<daftykins> :O
<popey> Snyders Hot Buffalo Wing
<daftykins> i've not had chinese in a while again
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0087C9S9C
<popey> those bad boys
<popey> or, indeed, girls
<daftykins> :O that's worryingly impulse buy worthy
<intrbiz> the jalapeno ones are good
<popey> see also http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003SEHZF8
<popey> yes
<popey> *Bursting with flavour*
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4khxeru5hs
<intrbiz> interesting, turnout dropped from 77% in 1992 to 59% in 2001
<ali1234> argh... stupid spi chip won't read when the cpu is in reset
<ali1234> and the cpu keeps interrupting transfers
<ali1234> going to have to do this the hardway then
<Azelphur> Currently using NFS for file shares, thinking I should switch to something else over security concerns, it only locks to IP and I want to make my share writable, have this nightmare scenario of someone visiting me one time, jumping on my WiFi, and getting cryptolockered or something :)
<Azelphur> Suggestions of alternative file sharing solutions, or ways to make NFS better?
<ali1234> make a guest network
<Azelphur> well, I want guests to have access to my network too, I have a RO share exposed so they can access stuff
<Azelphur> and I generally want machines in the LAN to be able to talk to each other, just not be able to write to each other :)
<directhex> use cifs!
<directhex> finer grained access control than nfs
<Azelphur> I just googled CIFS and I'm confused, I get lots of shit about Windows Shares?
<Laney> here we go
<Azelphur> is CIFS and SMB the same? XD
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> still better than NFS
<Azelphur> ali1234: weird I'm sure it was you who told me to use NFS in the first place...
<Azelphur> (this was years ago)
<ali1234> i doubt it
<ali1234> i tell people not to use NFS all the time
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> so that's fairly unanimous then, stop using NFS and start using SMB/CIFS? any recommended docs to follow?
<ali1234> i would probably go with a combination of upnp for read-only media shares, and sshfs for everything else
<Azelphur> sshfs is slow as balls though
<ali1234> use arcfour cipher then
<ali1234> or "none", then it is still authenticated
<Azelphur> also kinda want something XBMC/Kodi supports, so SMB ticks that box too
<ali1234> so does upnp
<Azelphur> uPnP can't write though :)
<ali1234> how often do you edit your collection of pirate tv shows? ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: every time I watch, Kodi updates the NFO file with watched status.
<ali1234> that's... stupid
<Azelphur> that's... functional baring in mind I have multiple Kodi instances
<daftykins> i've always used samba with kodi
<daftykins> works just dandy :>
<ali1234> yeah samba will work
<Azelphur> just to clear up my head, what's the distinction here between CIFS and SMB?
<ali1234> CIFS is like samba 2.0
<Azelphur> so is there a CIFS server, or is it still called Samba?
<ali1234> still called samba
<Azelphur> righto, thanks :)
<ali1234> the "standard" they are all based on is called server message block
<ali1234> "samba" is just one implementation
<intrbiz> jCIFS
<intrbiz> being another
<ali1234> okay i finally got a clean dump
<ali1234> the rom has compressed sections which get uncompressed into ram by the first stage bootloader
<ali1234> but i don't know what arch this thing is... it's probably mips
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11021051/ sections all start with "9ZZ"
<ali1234> anyone recognize this compression?
<ali1234> "zip2006" apparently
<ali1234> it's not going to be complicated, the decompressor is like 300 bytes
<ali1234> okay, found all the strings it looks for from the modem, no sign of the strings it sends though
<ali1234> "Warring: SP1000 Decode code Load ERROR Please Contact sunpirit and reboot system"
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> Good mornin MooDoo , diplo
 * knightwise is curious if he is going to get a TV Crew or the Newspaper at his house today
<MooDoo> knightwise: why would you?
<MooDoo> knightwise: are you anything to do with the election?
<knightwise> no no :) i live in Belgium remember :)
<knightwise> my company is celebrating its one year anniversary and we might get showcased in a news report about 'starting entrepreneurs'
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> knightwise: ah of course, well fingers crossed for you
<brobostigon> shame about the election result, i would have hoped, the british public would have got rid of the right wing nutters we have in government.
<MooDoo> yeah well that can go to #ukpolotics can't it :p
<brobostigon> polotics? whats that?
<knightwise> MooDoo: thanx :) kinda nervous about it.
<MooDoo> typo, i'm a right wing nutter that can't type yet lol
<knightwise> usually when i'm in front of a camera, I have a say in whats going to happen.
<brobostigon> i see, MooDoo
<brobostigon> mind you, there was much worse right wing nutters, that were standing as well.
 * brobostigon is generalising, that people who are right wing, are also nutters,
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<popey> brobostigon: i agree with you. depressing isn't it
<bashrc_> g'day
<knightwise> mornin popey
<brobostigon> very much so popey
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hey bashrc_
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<brobostigon> as my dad said, do people has such short memories about the conservatives in the 80's.
<brobostigon> have*
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Time to ditch first-past-the-post I reckon.
<popey> its always been time to ditch fptp
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> agreed.
<TwistedLucidity> But then the peasants would have to be listened to!
<davmor2> +1 on ditching fptp
<popey> make it happen davmor2
<popey> chop chop
<TwistedLucidity> Can't have the proles deciding things. If they were any good at life, they'd all be rich and stuff.
 * davmor2 touches the post that'll break it
<TwistedLucidity> Hang on, who won South Thanet?
<TwistedLucidity> Sorry "Thanet South"
<foobarry> there are counting thanet south later this morning
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results
<TwistedLucidity> Oooo, the tension is palpable
<popey> thats quite a sea of blue & yellow
<foobarry> maggie simpson
<TwistedLucidity> The swing to the SNP is a bit of a shock - why now *after* the referendum? It's too late
<popey> they will re-run it
<popey> maybe as soon as 2 years from now
<TwistedLucidity> "You will keep voting until you make the correct choice!"
<popey> indeed
<TwistedLucidity> Isn't that how the EU works?
<bashrc_> :)
<popey> "once in a lifetime"
<bashrc_> looks like a conservative landslide, with the libdems demolished
<popey> however I actually think they should split off, wales too
<popey> and cornwall.
<popey> kernow
<foobarry> before i was a no, now i'm a yes
<foobarry> but they don't give us englishers the vote on scotland
<TwistedLucidity> I think the North should split from from South; the economies are so different.
<TwistedLucidity> London should aslo split - different again
<TwistedLucidity> In fact, just keep splitting until we are our own countries.....
<TwistedLucidity> "And the abassador from 23 Barnacle Grove is....Ms Amber Miggins."
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: no the germans tell europe what to do and they do it
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Well, they are paying for it after all....
<davmor2> where's jamestait already
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy No Socks Day! ð
<foobarry> and VE day
<davmor2> JamesTait: I have no socks already I must of known that or work from home
<davmor2> foobarry: yeah which we don't celebrate because we won........wait a minute......we don't have Saint Georges day off and the French celebrate us winning......what's wrong with this Country :D
<foobarry> maybe VE day could replace may day?
<foobarry> the 2nd monday in may might be warmer too
<JamesTait> foobarry, maybe it's just me, but it feels like the bank holidays could be spread out better.
<bashrc_> indeed. More bank holidays should be invented
<bashrc_> to fill the gaps
<JamesTait> That could work. âº
<TwistedLucidity> Nah. We need to improve worker flexibility and productivity to boost the economoy and stimulate growth. Time to axe Bank Holidays.
<TwistedLucidity> And weekends
<nucc1> hi guys, anyone know how i can get that keyboard layout detector that runs during the installer to run now?
<nucc1> i'm running an ubuntu vm on a mac and the keyboard is nigh unusable
<nucc1> all the layouts I've tried seem to be doing nothing
 * awilkins plugs in an external keyboard when he has to support a Mac
<awilkins> The main reason I'll never buy a Mac - the special snowflake keyboard layout
<awilkins> Why they think moving all the programmers characters like curly braces is a good idea I'll never know
<TwistedLucidity> nucc1: Do you have an input switcher icon in the task bar? There was a bit of a problem with Ubuntu always using EN-us a while back, not sure if that affected layout as well.
<nucc1> i do have a UK keyboard plugged in. it's docked
<czajkowski> aloha
<nucc1> it works fine on the mac itself, but the VM seems to be totally confused
<nucc1> TwistedLucidity: yes, the switcher appears to be having no effect
<nucc1> and to make it even more interesting, when i attempt to launch the control panel keyboard applet in ubuntu, it crashes and asks me to send a report
<popey> czajkowski: you have an x1 carbon right?
<TwistedLucidity> nucc1: You could try looking up how to change the input on an Ubuntu server; the same config changes/tools should work on desktop
<TwistedLucidity> Unless other people have a better idea?
<nucc1> no use. when i type: "a, ubuntu prints Ã¤
<nucc1> almost like the alt gr key is stuck, but it definitely isnt.
<TwistedLucidity> How utterly bizzare!
<nucc1> sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration seems to be the magic
<nucc1> just did that and rebooted and it's more sane. I chose mac from the list of available keyboards
<nucc1> i chose a mac because it's got a retina screen, really that's the only reason. it's not proven to be any more reliable or stable than linux on bare hardware was for me
<nucc1> well, and battery life is light years ahead of everything else.
<foobarry> garage lost thanet south (as predicted)
<MooDoo> 300 votes for al murray though lol
<nucc1> conservatives seem to be in the lead according to the Goog
<MooDoo> well in the lead, 5 away from majority
<foobarry> the real al murray guy seems quite similar to nige
<TwistedLucidity> nucc1: Lots of good things to be said about Apple hardware. Unfortunately there's lots of bad things to be said about it and their business practices as well.
<foobarry> loves cricket, and the war, and drining pints
<TwistedLucidity> For design and attention to detail, Apple are second-to-none. No denying that.
<nigelb> me?
<foobarry> may nigelb too
<foobarry> maybe#
<TwistedLucidity> Just a shame their WiFi support is such utter garbage (IME at least)
<foobarry> looks like the seat was too tight to make silly votes like lib dem and al murray
<foobarry> and al-zebabist nation of ooog
 * TwistedLucidity ponders forming a single-issue party that will bring PR into law, then immediately stand-down and hold an election
<awilkins> Yeah, I'd love to see magsafe connectors on regular laptops
 * TwistedLucidity promises not to become power hungry.....
<awilkins> As long as the module was user-replaceable because I hear the contacts wear out
<directhex> magsafe is dead
<directhex> all hail usb3.1 type c
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Well it is replacable; buy a new Mac!
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32622224
<foobarry> "For people to be working at night, weekends and holiday on emails is not good for the health of our country," the professor told the BBC.
<nucc1> another schmuck with a mic :p
<TwistedLucidity> I never check email when off-hours unless there was something urgent I couldn't finish and need some info.
<nucc1> i check because i don't have a life.
<TwistedLucidity> If there is a disaster, they have my number and can call
<nucc1> and i like the fact that i can ignore it, because i'm not at work
<czajkowski> popey: I do
<czajkowski> my lovely pretty X1
<TwistedLucidity> But I do get swamped with email. Must be upwards of a hundred a day - most of it irrelevant garbage I don't need.
<TwistedLucidity> Marked "URGENT! MUST READ!"...usually from sales types where everything is urgent....
<shauno> nucc1: the best solution I've found for the keyboard layout, is to look for an ISO US layout.  it's not perfect, but it's much more usable
<awilkins> I like the notion that Atos is trying to phase out email altogether
<awilkins> Other collaboration tools are definitely a better idea
<shauno> (I've tried to find a better solution, but xkb is a dark dark place)
<awilkins> Would like to see a hybrid between a ticket tracker, a wiki, and Google Wave
<foobarry> "We need to ban emails [sent and received] within the same building," he said, advocating instead for face-to-face meetings and phone calls
<foobarry> oh, thats just silly now
<awilkins> I think things are slowly converging into that kind of thing
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: People who send documents by email (rather than placing them into the database) and then expect you to retain it in Outlook for X years need to be shot.
<nucc1> foobarry: that's why i said "another schmuck with a mic".
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, If I was emperor of the company I'd ban document attachments in favour of cloud documents and other collaborative editing for a month
<nucc1> TwistedLucidity: putting the document in a database/CMS doesn't necessarily make it easy to find.
<shauno> indeed.  most our documents live in lotus scariness, which is why we just mail them
<foobarry> the amount of allegedly technical IT people who struggle to use a wiki is unbelieveable
<TwistedLucidity> Also, an email is a company record and subject to retention which may cause problems (unless you suddenly change your retention policy, err, I could cite some recent hacking scandals). Face-to-face convo's are off record.
<awilkins> We had a document repository
<nucc1> my solution is to simply put things i think i'll need in an email folder called "Reference"
<awilkins> Literally no-one used it
<foobarry> even linux people i've seen strugggle
<TwistedLucidity> nucc1: It makes it very easy to find. But then, that's kinda my job.
<shauno> our wiki only works because we've banned people from editing it.  there's two of us allowed, and everyone else mails us changes
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> where's the internal documentation though?
<foobarry> wiki is a godo collaborative toool for encourage people to document their own work
<davmor2> south tharnet in 2000 vote majority for the conservatives
<awilkins> Banning edits on wikis means you have the wrong culutre
<awilkins> I got my users to write their own manuals on their wiki!
<shauno> it's mostly because wikis suck
<awilkins> Suck in terms of execution or concept?
<TwistedLucidity> A wiki is a living thing - some some use cases you need a line in the sand, which is where documents are handy
<shauno> in execution.  I haven't yet found one where I can trust a user to edit a table without having to go clean up after them
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Gollum wiki? (or other wiki in a VCS)?
<bashrc_> if wikis aren't actively curated then they tend to turn into spam over time
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Hmm...not sure how that would work really. I guess one could to the auditing and e-signing in a VCS; but would be clunky.
<shauno> especially anything that uses colspan or rowspan.  doubly-so anything that expects the user to add the correct values for same said
<TwistedLucidity> Also, printing it would could be problematic I guess.
<foobarry> shauno: i use twiki and enforce raw edit mode
<foobarry> my "users" are technical though
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, For a while I was trying to foster the use of pull requests as a means of editing all our collaborative works
<foobarry> markdown + github could be a next step though..
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, People use Markdown to write print books - don't see why printing it can't work
<awilkins> And haven't you heard - print is dead ;-)
<shauno> most of ours are hardware-technical, not markup-technical
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I was more thinking of Contents, Intro, Chapters, Glossary, Index etc
<TwistedLucidity> And then watermarkig etc etc
<TwistedLucidity> Although that could probably be solved in other ways.
<TwistedLucidity> Basically - arse covering.
<shauno> we just don't print stuff.  printing is bad.  hardcopies are out of date, and usually immesurably so
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Nothing stopping you having pages for those things, and a script that prints their links in sequence as the book
<awilkins> But yes, print is worse than mailing documents around
<foobarry> newsappers are out of date too
<awilkins> They're both dead
<foobarry> even todays freshest papers were old news
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: That'd be nice, but our customers would never work that way and as part of "dog fooding" we use our own stuff, so we don't work that way
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe in 20 years or so they'll have moved forward.
<TwistedLucidity> Everything is done in Outlook - it's depressing
<bashrc_> Outlook. Ugh
<awilkins> Yeah, we just had a meeting discussing collaborative work on a business prospect
<TwistedLucidity> The resistance would also be "A wiki is not WYSIWYG", "A wiki doe snot integrate with Excel", "I can't draw graphs", "I can't edit off-line" and so on.
<awilkins> We're going to stick it all in a spreadsheet
<TwistedLucidity> Wikis are great, we have one, but they are not a universal tool for all documentation
<TwistedLucidity> Although we vastly over-use Word docs; many of those would be much, much better in a good wiki (e.g. user help)
<TwistedLucidity> But what do I know...
<TwistedLucidity> ...setting up VisualStudio 2013 is an utter abhorrance...
<awilkins> Not tried that in years :-)
<awilkins> I just use SharpDevelop for all my Windows programming where possible now
<awilkins> Not that I do much
<nucc1> TwistedLucidity: visualstudio is still the best IDE out thereâ¦ the IntelliJ stuff comes a close second
<nucc1> xcode isn't bad too.
<nucc1> Anjuta is just outrageously dumb
<TwistedLucidity> nucc1: Yeah, that's the sad thing. It really is quite good. I use Eclipse mostly and that is becoming increasing dreadful
<TwistedLucidity> Quite like IntelliJ; Maven support is far superior to Eclipse.
<shauno> I tried eclipse recently.  it seems to suffer from gimp syndrome?
<foobarry> need to google to remember how to do stuff?
<shauno> eg it's perfectly capable, but the UI is the result of two blind guys having a foodfight
<foobarry> gimp single window mode is default nowadays isn't it?
<foobarry> still i struggle
<intrbiz> what is wrong with the eclipse ui?
<TwistedLucidity> Can't say the Eclipse GUI is any worse than IntelliJ or VS; I just change the defauls to suit my taste/needs. It seems to start out...sub-optimal
<shauno> I couldn't find anything I was looking for.  I'll admit I didn't spent too long, it felt like Iwas getting into an argument that I didn't need to be in
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: To start, the entire "workspace" concept as a flat structure
<intrbiz> working sets
<intrbiz> one thing I'd like to be able to configure, is line spacing, so I can have 1.5 spacing
<intrbiz> projects down the left, code in the middle, console at bottom, basically covers it
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: I should need to configure that - all the details are already in Maven; Eclipse should simply respect it.
<TwistedLucidity> As IntelliJ does.
<TwistedLucidity> It's not a deal-breaker, just an annoyance.
<intrbiz> minor issue frankly
<intrbiz> maven support could be better in a number of places
<TwistedLucidity> Took me a sodding age to get Maven working, having to continually re-iterate what plug-in runs in what phase is a apin
<TwistedLucidity> But there is one, massive failing with Eclipse; the compiler.
<TwistedLucidity> It needs to burn
<intrbiz> what is wrong with the eclipse compiler?
<TwistedLucidity> (Or I need to find a way to separate the Eclipse output from the Maven compile)
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: It can lead to non-running code appearing to compile and get deployed onto dev servers
<TwistedLucidity> Due to the insertion of various bytecode shenanigans.
<TwistedLucidity> Just use the defaul Java compiler and be done with it
<intrbiz> well, that's what a build server is for
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, it doesn't affect a nightly build; but it affects day-to-day work when you are pushing your current dev code to a server
<intrbiz> personally only had one issue with eclipse compiler, which was being able to compile some Java 8 syntax that Oracles compiler could not
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: if it's a bug in the compiler, report it
<TwistedLucidity> Problem is, Eclipse will spit-out a .class for non-compiling code. If you then run Maven, it thinks that .class is valid and adds it into the .jar; boom!
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: It's not a bug, it's by design!
<intrbiz> ah, ok, well that's incremental
<intrbiz> so, maven clean first
<directhex> tl;dr: java is evil. switch to mono
<TwistedLucidity> When we used Ant, we had the Eclipse and Ant output separate to avoid such an issue
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Can't, the build would take too long. Fixing this is on my ever growing list.....
<TwistedLucidity> I am sure some of these problems are caused by how we manage our code...
<nucc1> i'm looking at the code for ssldump and the darn thing seems to have two main() functions :(
<TwistedLucidity> main() and mainerer()?
<nucc1> both are main, in two different files
<nucc1> one is in main.c, and appears to do little other than print help, and the other is in lex.yy.c
<nucc1> seems like it was written on purpose to filter out dummies like myself
<nucc1> and probably no surprise the program is now unmaintained
<intrbiz> can't wireshark do what you need?
<nucc1> i'm trying to see if i'm capable of patching ssldump to output JSON instead of the garbage it puts out currently
<nucc1> quite often, it helps to get the data in text
<nucc1> makes searching easier
<nucc1> so this is me trying to workout the control flow so i can see where i need to edit. shouldn't be too hard, i imagine, if the program wasn't so opaque
<nucc1> i just thought about it, and the hurdles I've had to jump to get here :)
<nucc1> i often have to deal with ssldump generated output. usually i get a pre-master-secret file which is useful for wireshark, and then the text from ssldump too, which helps for finding out which connection you should be looking at.
<nucc1> in wireshark, it's hard to find a specific message.
<nucc1> in ssldump, it's easy with grep, but then more difficult to follow a particular conversation
<nucc1> because the output of ssldump is a bit unpredictable and needlessly complicated, it's difficult to make an automated tool to arrange the output into conversations.
<nucc1> i wrote one which works reasonably well, but in order to make it fool-proof, ssldump needs to use an output format that is more amenable to scripted processing
<awilkins> I've had some things that the javac compiler can't parse and the Eclipse one can
<awilkins> 'twas annnoying because it would test fine and not build on the CI server
<awilkins> It was something really silly like comma placement in enums stretched over multiple lines
<nucc1> ssldump output is not that simple.
<nucc1> it uses two prefixes on each line to identify connection serial, and packet number.
<nucc1> so for example: "1 10 â¦" means connection #1, packet #10 and what follows are some metadata
<nucc1> the payload of "1 10" is then indented after that heading, using tabs.
<nucc1> relatively easy for a human to deduce. slightly complex for a program but still possible.
<nucc1> problem is, the output is not ordered according to connection, but rather in packet order, and we know packets have no sense of order
<nucc1> and in some cases, ssldump will completely forget to indent the payload
<TwistedLucidity> So Farage quit...huh...a politician who actually kept their word!
<bashrc_> quit?
<nucc1> that's what he wants you to think :p
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, he sort-of-quit... but will consider whether to stand for the leader election in September. âº
<awilkins> Quick question to confirm : does the "encrypt my disk" in Ubuntu use LUKS on LVM or LVM on LUKS  (I think it's LVM on LUKS becuse a LUKS partition is being used as a physical volume in the ubuntu-vg volume group
<OerHeks> awilkins, correct: http://askubuntu.com/questions/275921/what-algorithm-is-used-by-disk-utility-encryption
<awilkins> OerHeks, Ta
<awilkins> NOOOOOO, broke mah VM
<zmoylan-pi> do you still have the sandbox it came in? :-)
<awilkins> Struggling with maths in bas
<awilkins> h
<awilkins> Have a number in a shell script
<awilkins> Trying to calculate that number + 512 + (THAT_NUMBER %512)
<awilkins> Just running into lots of syntax errors
<awilkins> Can do it on the command line, same stuff in a script chucks an error
<awilkins> Arrgh
<shauno> your script is using #!/bin/sh instead of /bin/bash?
<awilkins> Nope
<awilkins> Even explicitly running it as sudo bash <script>
<awilkins> Finally got to a solution for having my SSD cache cake and encrypting it too
<awilkins> Just wanted to automate it
<shauno> fair enough.  was just curious because bash won't use bashisms if you call it sh
<awilkins> Tried expr
<awilkins> Tried $(( ))
<awilkins> Can't get either working
<awilkins> Ahaa
<awilkins> Seems to work now
<awilkins> Narrarh
<awilkins> Still syntax errors on the target box
<awilkins> That is deeply deeply annoying
<foobarry> thunderbird defaults to bing search when selecting text
<foobarry> the upshot is that i copy and paste into google
<foobarry> so instead of less revenue, they get zero
<zmoylan-pi> i think you can change it but i stopped using thunderbird yonks back
<zmoylan-pi> not really a fan of evolution but still using it for now.
<foobarry> evo feels so clunky!
<foobarry> and horrid ui
<foobarry> IMHO
<foobarry> geary looks nice, but never moved over
<zmoylan-pi> i use claws in imap mode for my ancient netbook and it's light and fairly responsive but i don't think i'd throw my 5-6gb of mail at it...
 * bashrc_ uses Mutt
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't get mutt or alpine to work using the online tutorials.  i might give it a bash again
<awilkins> Just in case anyone is interested : http://askubuntu.com/questions/620480/how-to-install-ubuntu-with-both-disk-encryption-and-ssd-caching
<awilkins> I was going to bounty it but I imagine I'll be selecting my own answer...
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: turns out claws is a bit unsecure, too
<Myrtti> https://tails.boum.org/security/claws_mail_leaks_plaintext_to_imap/
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> I go to bed on the exit polls suggesting a hung parliament and wake up to news that tories got a majority government
<MooDoo> diddledan: yup indeed
<diddledan> and all the leaders are gone
<diddledan> seems everyone and their dog has resigned
<MooDoo> well it was a pretty spectacular defeat for them
<diddledan> last declaration is in - another tory gain from libdeb
<foobarry> lib who?
<MooDoo> wow i've had paulmellors.net 11 years now :D
<popey> ooh, next week I'll have had popey.com for 16 years!
<popey> blimey
<popey> time flies
<MooDoo> was just going to say popey.com was created 1999 lol
<MooDoo> beat me again
<popey> heh
<diddledan> nice
<awilkins> Ugh
<awilkins> 331 sears
<awilkins> seats
<foobarry> problem?
<MooDoo> FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!!
<MooDoo> :)
 * awilkins is a big lefty
<diddledan> foobarry: I'm guessing libdeb is a library for manipulating debian packages? :-p
<awilkins> Or how Nick Clegg is announced when someone has a headcold
<diddledan> awilkins: is that like a big softie?
<diddledan> I ask because I'm definitely a big softie
<awilkins> I just want to curl up for a bit until the horrible Tories go away
<ali1234> the only choice now is accelerationism
<MooDoo> awilkins: the 5 year big sleep
<foobarry> awilkins: did you vite blair?
<awilkins> foobarry, I did
<foobarry> its no different really
<foobarry> saw a stat earlier
<awilkins> Actually, not sure I voted that time around
<foobarry> new labour 3-0
<awilkins> I was moving so much I didn' t have the opportunity to register
<foobarry> old labour 0-6
<foobarry> over last 40 years or so
<shauno> I honestly have no idea how anyone decides between them
<foobarry> stealing Â£173k in the expenses scandal should have helped people decide
<foobarry> but it didn't
<foobarry> people have short memories
<foobarry> or are stupid
<shauno> just seems to me you get the choice between morally bankrupt or financially bankrupt.  it's really not much of a choice
 * bashrc_ thinks Labour and Tories are basically the same party with different coloured ties
<awilkins> I would actually like to see a Green government
<shauno> my understanding is that the tories have evil plans to reduce the debt, labour have no plans.  the green party are hilariously crazy, and ukip are scarily crazy.
<awilkins> Until they start making people eat raw spelt instead of beef, of course
<awilkins> The Tories evil plans are nothing to do with reducing debt
<awilkins> THeir evil plans are more along the lines of making sure as much public infrastructure is owned by their mates by the end of their term as possible
<awilkins> The Greens just seem crazy because they are sane people standing against the background of UK politics
<awilkins> UKIP are just Tories but they openly admit they don't like foreigners, so they have to have policies of deporting them instead of employing them as maids and builders
<awilkins> and nurses and doctors
<foobarry> and because they live in cloud cuckoo land
<foobarry> (greens)
<awilkins> foobarry, I agree that Greens could do with a dose of realism
<ali1234> i think the election results show that UKIP's support is not Tory at all
<awilkins> Their energy policy needs to accept that we need nuclear (fusion)
<awilkins> Their support might not be Tory but their MPs are basically Tories
<ali1234> their politicians might be
<awilkins> Nigel was a flipping banker
<awilkins> They're just Tories who figured out how to get the working man to vote for them
<ali1234> but lets face it all politicians have more in common with each other than they do with their supporters
<awilkins> The Green policies were very much in line with what people actually want when you ask them
<awilkins> Keep the NHS public? 85%
<awilkins> Renationalise rail? 65%, etc
<popey> what people want till you tell them the consequences
<awilkins> And they were the proponent of the Universal Basic Income which is an issue that needs examining seriously
<popey> and the cost
<bashrc_> although I don't really like any of them many of the green's policies make more sense to me
<shauno> yeah, the cost is the elephant in the room for most of that
<shauno> they have a lot of really neat ideas that they couldn't possibly afford to implement
<awilkins> The cost is the cost of buying them back from the corporations who presumably will want to make a profit on something they bought from us for a loss....
<bashrc_> having spent a lot of time inside the disaster that is the current unemployment system and having observed its many pathologies in the longer term I don't see much alternative to universal basic income
<bashrc_> unless mass starvation becomes a policy aim
<foobarry> the further you are from govt, the more populist and contradictory your policies can be
<awilkins> In the case of rail you could pull the same trick they are doing on the NHS - cut funding to railtrack until the network grinds to a halt and the operating companies are worthless and then buy them for a couple of quid and a packet of rolos
<awilkins> Shame about the disruption of the transit network though
<shauno> (and I completely disagree with the greens on trident, which kinda flavours things too)
<awilkins> Yeah. If you nuke things, everyone loses.
<awilkins> The only people interested in nuking people now are nutters - e.g. the kind of people MAD doesn't apply to because they're, well, MAD.
 * bashrc_ has noticed that the cold war ended some time ago
<ali1234> awilkins: i think you have far too much faith in humanity
<shauno> it did?  I seem to recall russia invading europe disturbingly recently
<popey> not exactly cold
<shauno> but I think that's the crux of my problem with scrapping it.  when we bought trident, in what, 1980, 81, we didn't imagine the wall was going to fall
<foobarry> everyone needs more ubuntu
<foobarry> whether the OS or the african word
<shauno> let alone that everything would get rather asymetric in 2001, or that Putin would come back 10 years later
<shauno> not renewing trident would be making some rather brave assumptions about the next 30-40 years
<nucc1> people tend to forget that little powerless countries get trampled upon
<foobarry> greens reckons we haven't been invaded since 1941 (forgotten about 7/7 etc), so we should disband the army and do town twinning
<nucc1> we may have space travel and satellite communications now, but the dynamics of the roman empire era still very much apply in world politics
<nucc1> you have to be powerful and scary in order to be undisturbed
<shauno> they could have said the same thing in 1910.  and it would have sounded believable.  30-40 years is a long time.
<awilkins> 7/7 .. how does that count as an invasion
<foobarry> it means the nature of warfare has changed
<awilkins> And how does a nuclear deterrent stop terrorism?
<nucc1> it stops shenanigans like Russia-Ukrain
<foobarry> and you don't think of threat as an army amassing at calais but something else
<nucc1> Ukraine*
<awilkins> "Hey, if you put a bomb in one of our bins we'll turn your country into a shiny glass mirror" isn't a threat with any credibility
<awilkins> nucc1, Didn't though, did it?
<foobarry> nuclear weapons are there because others have them
<shauno> well there's a hypothetical.  if ukraine hadn't given up their nukes udner the bucharest agreement, would russia have invaded to readily?
<nucc1> because Ukraine is a little guy with no power, awilkins
<nucc1> do you think Putin could do that to the UK right now?
<foobarry> unless everybody throws away their gun at a standoff then someone might get hurt
<awilkins> Why did they give up the nukes if they represented power?
<awilkins> Probably because they cost too much
<shauno> to de-escalate the russian border, and because the US & UK said they'd protect them if anything went wrong
<shauno> but apparently because it was an "agreement" and not a "treaty" we don't have to
<shauno> which for me, is the whole problem with saying "we don't need them because we're friends with _".  when push comes to shove, X doesn't want to war with russia either.
<popey> 7/7 bombers were british, shall we nuke leeds?
<ali1234> it would probably improve the place
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> 7/7 shows that wars is complicated
<foobarry> and nukes and armies and intelligence and guns are probably needed , maybe a navy too
<foobarry> greens can also merrrily claim that surveillance will be transparaent and lawful, and win some hipster vote, but all parties will claim that ghcq are lawful..if not they will change the law to make it lawful...
<popey> meanwhile http://cutelifebot.github.io/sierpinski/ is a good way to make your eyes go funny
<ali1234> doesn't work
<foobarry> my wife just spammed twitter with cats and meerkats to make the politics go away
<foobarry> worked for 10 seconds
<zmoylan-pi> well uk has never had a expectation of privacy law.  they've spied on ireland for yonks
<zmoylan-pi> not that it did much good
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/SoccerrProblems/status/595756019617239041
<foobarry> was that deliverate?
<intrbiz> Upsert support just committed to PostgreSQL :) (devel version)
<nucc1> isn't 15.04 supposed to handle high dpi displays better?
<directhex> still app-dependent
<nucc1> well, the whole desktop is unreadable
<nucc1> and when i try to set display settings, it just tells me "org.gnome.settingsdaemon was not provided by any .service files" :/
<nucc1> actually the "scale for menu and title bars" is doing what it says. everything else is too tiny
<awilkins_> Hey, is USB Creator broken in Vivid?
<davmor2> awilkins: it might be I haven't tried it why?
<ali1234> awilkins_: yes
<ali1234> it was broken in U as well
<directhex> nucc1: changing the "scale for menu and title bars" slider doesn't change the window contents? e.g. the display window itself?
<awilkins_> Hrrmph
<ali1234> luckily there is absolutely no reason to use it at this point
<ali1234> just dd the ISO
 * awilkins_ just dd-ed the image to the key
<nucc1> directhex: it isn't. it's only changing the title-bars
<directhex> nucc1: sounds like breakage at your end - it scales for me.
<awilkins_> Re-installing my machine
<awilkins_> Need full disk encryption for the corporate security policy
<awilkins_> Thanks to a bit of graft and testing with VMs I can have disk encryption AND ssd caching :-)
<nucc1> directhex: let me re-install "ubuntu-gnome-desktop"
<nucc1> I started out with ubuntu server, and then installed the GUI as I used more and more of it and decided to just make it full-fledged
<nucc1> that and reboot looks to have helped. thanks.
<nucc1> time to go see the world.
<daftykins> awilkins_: did you throw up an article on it? :D
<davmor2> why would you throw up on an article?
<daftykins> to add flavour
<diddledan> mm, lumpy
<davmor2> daftykins: just read articles on carrots if that is what you want to see :D
<diddledan> why does it always have carrots in it even if you haven't eaten carrots in forever?
<zmoylan-pi> so you know it's puke on the ground and not something somebody spilled
<daftykins> can't say i've seen carrots :>
<diddledan> vegetable soup doubles quite nicely
<davmor2> only I could mis-read a line and trigger a conversation about vomit :D
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> it's a friday. some of us will be weaving around it tonight or tomorrow...
<diddledan> that presupposes that we have social lives
<zmoylan-pi> een if you're just walking home...
<zmoylan-pi> *even
<diddledan> that presupposes we're likely to leave the house
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> house i grew up in had 5 pubs within 2 minutes walk
<diddledan> that presupposes we grew up
<ali1234> that saturday morning smell...
<zmoylan-pi> occasionly had to scrub the foot path in front of the house...
<foobarry> cant believe how weak the speakers on this laptop are
<foobarry> can't hardly hear a programme
<foobarry> thank goodness for vlc 125% mode
<diddledan> foobarry: what exactly _is_ 100% volume, anyway
<diddledan> "our amps are 1 louder because they go to 11"
<foobarry> it works!
<zmoylan-pi> his go to 12.5 :-)
<diddledan> I'm assuming it's akin to 0% being absolute silence, where 100% is absolute loud
<foobarry> movie player is too quiet at 100$
<foobarry> 110%
<foobarry> arrgh
<foobarry> 100%
<foobarry> it amplifies the sound , it works!
<diddledan> foobarry: how can you go louder than loud tho
<diddledan> 100% is everything
<diddledan> you can't have more than everything
<foobarry> you can!
<diddledan> in which case why doesn't player X have more than 100% the same way vlc does?!
<diddledan> vlc is just lying
<foobarry> no, its real
<foobarry> it performs E.Q. on the sound
<diddledan> if it goes from 0 to 125% then it's really going 0-100% where what they're labelling 125 is actually 100
<foobarry> no, i don't believe so
<foobarry> in the same way as pushing all your graphic eq to max or min you get more or less volume
<foobarry> you lose a bit of quality and balance
<diddledan> exactly, I'm trying to play devil's advocate - what _is_ 100% volume anyway and why can't we have more in player X
<diddledan> if vlc can give me more why can't player X
<foobarry> it could
<foobarry> maybe it already can
<diddledan> so why doesn't it
<foobarry> because vlc is awesome
<diddledan> you mentioned your movie player was too quiet so you used vlc - the other movie player is giving you "100% volume" so if there is a possibility of it actually going louder why doesn't it give you the option!
<diddledan> why have an arbitrary "100%"
<foobarry> VLC allows amplification of the INPUT above the sound that was decoded. This is just like replay gain, broken codecs, badly recorded files or post-amplification and can lead to saturation.
<foobarry> VLC does not (and cannot) modify the OUTPUT volume to destroy the speakers. VLC is a Software using the OFFICIAL platforms APIs.
<foobarry> you will get some clipping maybe
<foobarry> not noticeable on crappy speakers anyyway
<ali1234> diddledan: pulseaudio goes up to 153*153%*
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> ali1234: now we're talking!
<diddledan> ali1234: is that the definition of "absolute noise"?
<ali1234> also, anything above 100% is actually amplifying the signal before playing it
<shauno> I'm not sure I want to know how ali found that out
<diddledan> i.e. the inverse of "absolutely silence"
<ali1234> shauno: it goes up to 153% on the per-application volume control, and then 153% on the master volume control
<diddledan> LaunchPad.net should have rewards (medals) for necromongers
<diddledan> specifically I've been messing with one of czajkowski's from way back in 2012! :-p (https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1000320)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1000320 in Launchpad itself "Connection error for OpenSSL remote watch" [Low,Triaged]
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-09
<diddledan> perl 6 is magic: http://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org//2015/devroom-perl/perl6_for_mortals.mp4
<OerHeks> Perl 6 is comming out in december?
<diddledan> it's coming out?
<diddledan> :-p
<OerHeks> err or released
<diddledan> it's gonna get released? :-p
<diddledan> I thought they were just going to develop it forever
<diddledan> </troll>
<OerHeks> You must be a python guy .. ow haha
<daftykins> OerHeks: yeah don't mind diddledan ;)
<diddledan> I'm the resident ignoramous
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y8stpjzb2jn71p/IMG_20150509_022419.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> kitty wins the internet!
<diddledan> since when has dropbox had a discussion thingy?
<daftykins> it's annoying
<daftykins> couple of weeks, if you hover over the # of people that get notified, it previously said my real name
<daftykins> i had to log in and change it =|
<daftykins> i was seriously peeved at dropbox for that move
<diddledan> mr kins. dafty kins.
<daftykins> the very same :D
<daftykins> oh also - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybtepv4tpuvhrn4/VID_20150509_022253.mp4?dl=0
<diddledan> nawww
<diddledan> danglies were invented for cats. or vice versa
<daftykins> :>
<mappps> waaaaaaaaah
<mappps> gt sunburnt
<mappps> grmpf
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> tut tut
<daftykins> do you look lobster-like?
<mappps> just a bit red on my arms
<mappps> i live 2mins from where i was relaxing on the rocks bu the sea
<daftykins> :>
<mappps> contemplated going back to get suncream..figured nah il be ok
<mappps> lol
<daftykins> how're the temps of late?
<mappps> like  25c
<mappps> hot hot hot
<mappps> shorts weather all the time
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hell i'm in shorts at 12-14
<mappps> ;D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybtepv4tpuvhrn4/VID_20150509_022253.mp4?dl=0
<mappps> yea course but i mean now its too hot to consider jeans
<mappps> would be all hot and sticky and yuck
<daftykins> mmhmm
<mappps> i carry suncream in my bag..so incase i go somewhere/play tennis or say go to the beach i have it
<mappps> just didnt think i needed any didnt realise it was that hot heh
<daftykins> it'll sneak up on you
<diddledan> hmm, when did daylight happen?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<diddledan> so. who's running wily yet?
<diddledan> :-p
 * zmoylan-pi waits for a few months when new versions come out before making the leap in case there are any whoopsies
<diddledan> wily's out?
<diddledan> hmm, I wonder if cortana can answer that
<zmoylan-pi> ask cortana if siri knows if wily's out :-)
<diddledan> or ask cortana if siri knows if google now's it's wily is out
<diddledan> gotta love my electricity supplier: "Important Security Information: To log in to your account simply click on the secure link above. To help you identify this email is genuine and as an extra security measure, your full account number is shown at the top of this email."
<diddledan> note the links in the email are all http:// (no s!)
<zmoylan-pi> could have been worse.  they might have started demanding signatures for every electron delivered...
<moreati> diddledan: I'll see your leccy merchant and raise you a local council
<moreati> "DearÂ MrÂ Willmer,Â We have an update about yourÂ Request."
<zmoylan-pi> or someone went dumpster diving and made a fake site...
<moreati> No where in the email is there an indication of what the update is, or a link to the request
<diddledan> so my leccy is named after a local province in the uk, suggesting it be a british corp, yet they email from "Received: from FEXHESLAR01.euro.iberdrola.local (unknown [172.20.83.37])"
<diddledan> err wrong paste
<zmoylan-pi> go to the suppliers site and see if there's an email address or a notice about this notice
<diddledan> Received: from iberdrola.es (172.20.83.35) by FEXHESLAR01.euro.iberdrola.local
<diddledan> I emailed my bank a while back moaning that they emailed me purely to tell me that they want to email me
<diddledan> now I keep getting emails asking me to fill out a survey letting them know how well they did in not resolving my moan
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * diddledan feels relaxed all of a sudden
<diddledan> oh ello bigcalm
<bigcalm> :)
<diddledan> "how big is your calm": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqqjU7u5Yc
 * bigcalm puts on his name sakes album
<SuperEngineer> Been looking for a copy of Sidekick for my freedos usb.  Some might call me peed off with the lack of success
<SuperEngineer> A simple search for it does show "sidekick dos free download, cfos dos for dos, sidekick unlock, bingo sidekick and more."...
<SuperEngineer> freedownload3.com/downloads/sidekick_dos.html ..but hmmmm, would you trust that site
<SuperEngineer> ?
<SuperEngineer> DARN! just downloaded Sidekick 1.5 & copied to a floppy, then to FreddDos USB...
<SuperEngineer> ... "Sorry, unknown vwrsion PCDOS version. Please report to Borland"  :(
<SuperEngineer> ... "Sorry, unknown PCDOS version. Please report to Borland"  :(
 * penguin42 wonders if you can tell it what to answer as the version
 * SuperEngineer wonders if he can shout it loud enough!
<SuperEngineer> but can't think of a way round your suggestion penguin42 - maye editing the .com file with a hex editor - but not sure where info is hiden or what to change it to if found
<shauno> have you tried calling borland?  ;)
<penguin42> they still exist
<shauno> (ancient stuff isn't always hopeless.  we seem to do well because there's two old guys who love being able to lord that no-one else has any idea about 20yo stuff)
<penguin42> the guys in the balcony?
<SuperEngineer> hmmm. that would be the same same Borland that wants to sell an old copy [5.25 disk only] for highly extortionate amounts?
<SuperEngineer> shauno, when you "ancient stuff", are you refering to youurself & myself?  OUCH
<penguin42> not Statler and Waldorf ?
 * SuperEngineer hums Muppets song
<SuperEngineer> hang on! interesting info coming in on #freedos for me :)
<foobarry> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/krita/krita-free-paint-app-lets-make-it-faster-than-phot/description
<simondbull> Hey all, having a few issues with running Telegram Desktop on Ubuntu MATE. Works fine on Unity. I've run it through gdb, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11045856/ Any ideas or help would be much appreciated :)
<ali1234> here is back trace?
<simondbull> ali1234, link to back trace can be found here :) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11046761/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<mappps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mappps
<linuxrules> whats the best lightweight linux desktop? - i am about to install linux on my mum's computer, it is quite old and she does not know much about computers, i waswondering which one is best
<zmoylan-pi> lubuntu is very light and easy on ram
<zmoylan-pi> but best is a variable term and means different things to different people
<zmoylan-pi> xubuntu is what i use on ancient netbook
<linuxrules> yeah i tried lubuntu but the wifi and speakers would not work - on the first intel macbook
 * SuperEngineer has found Ubuntu Mate runs faster & lighter on an old oldbook than Xubuntu did
<SuperEngineer> *netbook
<SuperEngineer> & just realised that he/she has asked on several channels - then left after asking - hmmm
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<zmoylan-pi> that's... not good... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/05/10/0936213/enterprise-ssds-powered-off-potentially-lose-data-in-a-week
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, don't seee what your complaining about! You gret to keep all your, personal valued stuff & system for up to a week! :D
<zmoylan-pi> and if the police raid your gear for copyright infringement and have a backlog... :-P
<awilkins> Ah, the totalitarian state discussions
<awilkins> It does seem the double-whammy doesn't it
<awilkins> Starve all the poor people and keep all the technorati under surveillance
<SuperEngineer> well... then you get off scot free & get to bust the police for harassment - with the compensation you could buy yourself a real storage system!  ;)
<awilkins> Barely a whiff of the protests outside Downing Street reported on the BBC
<SuperEngineer> awilkins, really, still relying on beeb for unbiased news? signed, yours truely, anonymous [hint]
<zmoylan-pi> the bbc is good for reporting on things NOT in the uk
<awilkins> Oh, no, not since I was in a 50,000 person protest that they reported by putting the camera at a low angle across a narrow road to make it look like a mothers meeting and then gave it a 2 minute slot on the local news
<awilkins> I FOIAed the coppers for their survellance chopper footage to give an true idea of the scale of the crowd and they go tback to me 6 months later with some terrible stills from what was probably a building surveillance camera
<awilkins> With a 640x480 CCD in it
<SuperEngineer> awilkins, unfair! it's budget cuts!  they probably couldn't afford a tripod ;)
<SuperEngineer> or a camera man
<awilkins> Those choppers have super-HD video cams
<SuperEngineer> or an unbiased view
<awilkins> Yeah. The protest movements need to start putting teams on the roofs and flying drones with GoPro cams over the crowd
<awilkins> It's a sad thing but they need to take care of their own journalism
<awilkins> Maybe not OVER the crowd
<awilkins> Last thing they need is a drone falling on someone's head
<awilkins> Give an excuse to ban them
<awilkins> Bet the coppers are starting to use drones to monitor protests though
 * SuperEngineer coughs & finds cough sounds like a reminder that this is a family friendly channel, not a political awareness channel
 * penguin42 doesn't think there's anything against politics is there?
<SuperEngineer> "against politics"?
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> awilkins, I highly recommend the Greg Proops proopcast [aka podcast] for a real look at life
<awilkins> Well, unless you consider the Tories to not be "family friendly"
<awilkins> :-P
 * awilkins listens to proopcast on "Pies"
<SuperEngineer> :)
<penguin42> right, first important step to making the next batch of chocolate sorbet; finished the previous batch
<zmoylan-pi> it's hard work but someone has to do it...
<penguin42> hmm, I think I'm going to have to get kitchen scales that have more precision; 1g precision when trying to measure 2g of xanthum gum and 8g of cornflour isn't very good
<zmoylan-pi> there's a shop on moore street that sells scales and cigarette lighters... for no reason connected whatsoever... :-P
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> ello folks
 * penguin42 is watching a BBC programme on the insides of chocolate factories - worrying amount of human interaction with the chocolate
<diddledan> human interaction with chocolate!
<diddledan> you can't beat chocolate airated by natural waterfall
<diddledan> you could whip it I guess
<diddledan> a decent lash of a whip
<penguin42> diddledan: Well this is a factory, and they've still got humans just checking the boxes over after the robots (unglobved) and loading the fillings into machines (without gloves) and picking duds off the lines (ungloved)
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> humans shouldn't be involved. oompa loompas are much more qualified
<OerHeks> Do oompa's have common cold too ?
<diddledan> nothing common about it!
<diddledan> very upper-class, my colds
<diddledan> lol @ mailing list: "I'm doing this through the mailing list as it's not a specific bug report but rather just a general bad mood my phone has developed!"
<penguin42> Thorntons have got a wonderful machine for making easter eggs - spins the eggs in all directions
<foobarry> can't believe i got sucked in to http://www.reddit.com/r/thebutton
<zmoylan-pi> do you are now dougal in father ted in the cockpit...
<shauno> I hope by "sucked in" you don't mean you pressed it
<m0nkey_> foobarry, i've not pushed it yet
<m0nkey_> damn it.. it got to 11seconds
<m0nkey_> then somebody pushed the button
<m0nkey_> fool
<diddledan> evenin
<m0nkey_> damnit. power went out for a few seconds
<diddledan> my APC UPS is moaning (via a red light) that I need to replace the flattery
<m0nkey_> i need to get a UPS for this PC
<m0nkey_> server closet has UPS
<daftykins> diddledan: d'aww :(
<daftykins> can't even get a battery for mine anymore so it's whole unit replacement time if i care to
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> booo
<daftykins> well there are some on ebay and amazon but i'm not so sure...
<daftykins> i thin they're labelled as reconditioned
<diddledan> yeah that doesn't sound good
<daftykins> +k
<diddledan> I donno how long lead-acid really do last
<m0nkey_> FFS!
<m0nkey_> did it again
<intrbiz> more about how they are stored / duty cycles etc
<m0nkey_> next time, i'm sure power will go out properly
<diddledan> the lcd output says the battery was "installed feb 2012"
<daftykins> to be honest the software has started periodically losing contact with the USB attached APC UPS, so likely it's gonna die anyway
<intrbiz> what batteries does it take?
<daftykins> some proprietary thing
<daftykins> http://www.bechtle.co.uk/medias/uazSVaIeVcKx24M9CBYV58-30.jpg
<daftykins> like that
<intrbiz> ah
<daftykins> 'tis a pretty old APC Back-UPS RS 800
<m0nkey_> what. that's two jelly cells with some adapter.
<intrbiz> propbablly two standard seal lead acids in that pack
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> i should probably turn off the mains sometime and see what it does
<daftykins> i had to replace every other one i got at the same time
<ali1234> that looks like two standard batteries stuck together
<diddledan> "standard"?
<daftykins> lead acid cells perhaps
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<brmbrmcar> morning
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * bashrc lowers sunglasses
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Lost Sock Memorial Day! ð
<SuperMatt> I currently live in a state where all socks are present, correct, and paired. This has been the case for the last year or so.
<SuperMatt> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14415881/pair-socks-from-a-pile-efficiently
<Wobbo> Still morning, so morning all, :D At 16.04 Evoltion hase no translation. So I think that only need [/usr/share/locale-langpack/nl/LC_MESSAGES/evolution-3.18.mo]. But where and how can i find this?
<brobostigon> http://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/bepicolombo-mercurytransit
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO3Z85qE_og but also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-UzXIQ5vw combined with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC3y9llDXuM will give losing my tube socks I thank you :D
<MooDoo> well two peeople have password my password check social experiment :)
<MooDoo> passed *
<MooDoo> https://www.paulmellors.net/passwords.html
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Don't click the link!!!!!
<diplo> :P
<MooDoo> diplo: I was doing a social experiment to see actually how many people would type in their password blatently to a site, it's a safe sight
<MooDoo> site
<diplo> Where did you put the link ?
<diplo> Password validation failure (your choise is weak):
<diplo> Should there be something at the end of : ?
<diplo> rawr Your password is strong.
<MooDoo> diplo: no nothing is there and if you put in your password i'll not be happy ;)
<diplo> I put my extra l33t password in
<MooDoo> diplo: ;)
<MooDoo> diplo: I've already had what appears to be legit passwords in, some people are crazy
<diplo> Some people are stupid!
<MooDoo> definately....when someone told me that people will put their password into any legit looking site, i couldn't believe them, now i do :)
<diplo> yeah, stupid bloody people, and yours doesn't even look legitimate :D
<SuperMatt> problem is you have to put your password in so many things, that many seasoned pros could be caught out
<SuperMatt> I use keepass on my linux machines. There is nothing to stop canonical or redhat from altering the binary so send my passwords to them in plain text, but keep the source code free of this kind of change
<SuperMatt> I have to put my trust somewhere, and hope it never bites me in the backside
<diplo> SuperMatt: I do/use the same apart from that it syncs to all my devices ( windows/droid/*nix(
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I use lastpass, it works for me, it was a social experiment just to see if people would put their passwords into my page
<SuperMatt> lastpass is a browser extension, no?
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't want to trust that because I don't know what will be done with the passwords when they're save t'cloud
<MooDoo> it seems to work for me, and my vault pass phrase os over 30 chars log :)
<MooDoo> long
<Bram___> hello first I'm sorry for my bad english
<MooDoo> don't worry about it, welcome.  If you have a question just ask and if anyone can answer it, they will :)
<Bram___> so I made a python code and a c code. I want to link both codes with a binary file but I have a problem. somtimes I miss data
<Bram___> so this is my python code
<Bram___> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16316979/
<Bram___> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16316983/
<Bram___> and this is my c code
<Bram___> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16316993/
<Bram___> so when I run both codes I have serial data as 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,.... so 5 and 6 are missing in the data stream
<Bram___> I think that the reopening of the file (in the c cod) for clearing the content of the file the problem is
<Bram___> have you any solution for resolving this problem?
<SuperMatt> I don't think that falls under the umberella of an Ubuntu specific problem
<SuperMatt> so finding help here might be difficult
<SuperMatt> you could try stackexchange
<Bram___> yes thats true I work on a Raspberry Pi
<foobarry> eyes so itchy
 * Seeker` pokes foobarry in the eye to take his mind off the itching
<foobarry> itchy and scratchy
<Myrtti> allergies?
<foobarry> hayfever and colleagues leaving windows open
<Myrtti> I started the first symptoms of the year on the weekend, I'm not happy :-|
<Seeker`> mine haven't started yet
<Seeker`> I guess they'll start soon
<davmor2> foobarry: take hayfever tablets and get some local honey and put a teaspoon of that into you coffee instead of sugar
<foobarry> loradatine, and nose torch
<foobarry> will be getting beconase, opticrum etc
<Seeker`> I need to get some more beconase, the one I've got lying around is over a year old
<foobarry> yeah, same here
<knightwise> eeeevenin
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<davmor2> tally ho
<Azelphur> Anyone know of a bluetooth receiver that takes 3.5mm audio in/out? Bonus points if it's mains powered
<popey> a bluetooth speaker?
<Azelphur> popey: no, I want to be able to, plug a PC headset into it, so it needs 3.5mm jacks
<popey> i dont know what you're asking for then
<Azelphur> to be able to use my headset (that has 3.5mm jacks for mic/audio) with my phone, but via bluetooth
<Azelphur> so it'd be headset -> cables -> bluetooth -> phone
<diddledan> I think most bluetooth headset thingies have the headset and bluetooth embedded into the same unit
<popey> never heard of such a thing
<Azelphur> something like this: http://www.handtec.co.uk/sony-sbh52-bluetooth-headset.html
<popey> neat
<Azelphur> popey: seems like most of them have microphones built into the receiver though, rather than a 3.5mm jack for the mic.
<popey> yeah, designed for phones
<popey> you could possibly bodge the connector into a 4pin jack
<Azelphur> Indeed,p robably could
<popey> actually there must be converters
<diddledan> how to make a UNIX/Linux geek cringe: claim that BASH was named after Jason Bourne the guy who Matt Damon plays in the movies
<foobarry> Azelphur: i have a bluetooth receiver that i use as a poor mans sonos
<foobarry> i plug it into my stereo.
<foobarry> its from 7dayshop type people i think
<foobarry> that would work with a headset, but no auio in
<Azelphur> foobarry: yea, I need mic
<foobarry> lydia in skyrim is epic.
<foobarry> she saves me in so many battles
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-10
<darknite> hello
<darknite> anyone online now?
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<darknite> o/
<darknite> what is that
<zmoylan-pi> a person waving
<darknite> i see
<darknite> i'm a ubuntu members from asian country
<zmoylan-pi> it's custom not to pm people without asking permission first and to keep conversation in the regular channel
<darknite> okay
<darknite> noted
<darknite> hwhat do you guys think about ubuntu 16.04?
<MooDoo> morning all
<darknite> hello
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> hey darknite
<darknite> knighwise
<knightwise> wazzup dude :)
<darknite> great
<darknite> how about you
<knightwise> Doin ok , slow day at work so I get to goof around a little online :)
<darknite> what do you think about ubuntu 16.04?
<knightwise> I did a nuke and pave this weekend on my Xps13
<knightwise> so far i'm pretty pleased with it. But with an LTS i would wait untill the .1 comes uit
<knightwise> out
<darknite> i see
<darknite> i run it on my vmware..so far, good and faster than previous ubuntu 15.10
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> I also like that you have snap packages :)  nicely keeping apps seperated
<darknite> good improvement
<knightwise> true. still getting used to using apt instead of apt-get
<darknite> me too
<darknite> when trying to upgrade or update, need to use apt-get rather than apt
<knightwise> I like the new software store too
<darknite> true
<darknite> me too
<knightwise> hey cleder
<davmor2> Morning all you Monday survivors and welcome to out living Tuesday
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Mother Ocean Day! ð ð 
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcHyyuGjuk0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rr4tXN2eJM
<davmor2> or to be honest anything else by Ocean colour scene :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> ooh oooh ohoh: http://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/channel-4-announce-philip-k-dick-anthology-series-with-bryan-cranston-and-battlestar-galactica-s-a3244466.html?utm_campaign=Contact+SNS+For+More+Referrer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics
<diddledan> bah bah bah @ fugly link
<zmoylan-pi> how many good adaptions of  pk dick have been done so far?
<zmoylan-pi> kinda like hoping for a good alan moore adaption...
<darknite> gello
<darknite> hello
<Switches> Heya
<darknite> how is the whether there
<popey> Grey.
<Switches> Pissing down with rain..
<darknite> oh really
<Switches> Heya popey! the person who doesn't know seven of nine is...
<popey> I know who seven of nine is.
<Switches> Well you probably do now, Was listening to the ubuntu podcast you did, stellar work as always
<popey> I knew who seven of nine was before the show :)
<popey> Thanks!
<Switches> It did sound good on the podcast though :P and I loved the "Oh we will skip right over Ubuntu-Mate till the last second"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/730046066545070080
<zmoylan-pi> a cat is a bundle of reflexes waiting to happen
<Guest_86775> http://101img.com/img-5730d6c1e8d4b.html
<brmbrmcar> How is requested leave done?
<brmbrmcar> (just curious)
<diddledan> brmbrmcar: please leave. <-- like that?
<brmbrmcar> [requested by Myrtti (do not spam)]
<brmbrmcar> That
<Myrtti> /quote remove $C $0 :$1-;
<diddledan> ^^ not that it helps you, because you're not an OP
<brmbrmcar> OK,awesome.
<Myrtti> $C is the channel, $0 is the person to be removed and $1 is the removal reason
<brmbrmcar> OK...
<diddledan> thanks, SecuriTay (Taylor Swift), for pointing out this epic vulnerability disclosure: http://rol.im/asux/
<Seeker`> I wonder if my old scripts still work
<diddledan> Seeker`: they never worked! :-p
<Seeker`> they still work :P
<diddledan> lol. no fair :-)
<Seeker`> diddledan: seems they still work :P
<Seeker`> thanks for volunteering to be a test subject
<brobostigon> lol.
<diddledan> hah. I'm not sure I had any choice :-p
<brobostigon> anyone familier with configuring network manager to connect to openvpn who can help me troubleshoot why it isnt working, as i have no idea where to start, please.
<diddledan> brobostigon: last I did openvpn on ubuntu I did it with systemd rather than networkmanager
<diddledan> brobostigon: systemctl start openvpn-yourconfigfilenamewithoutdotconf
<brobostigon> diddledan: ah, interesitng, i wouldnt have thought of that way.
<brobostigon> ty, :)
<diddledan> I think that's the right enchantment, anywho
<diddledan> it might be a dot rather than dash
<diddledan> the config file needs to be in /etc/openvpn/ and so if it's called "foo.conf" then systemctl start openvpn-foo
 * brobostigon makes notes.
<diddledan> systemd manages to have funky pseudo service descriptions backed by a single .service file which change depending on how they're launched
<brobostigon> i see.
<diddledan> if you want it to autostart on boot then `systemctl enable openvpn-foo`
<brobostigon> cool.
<diddledan> basically there's a single openvpn.service file which doesn't do anything when called directly. when it's called with openvpn-configfilename then it matches whatever that config file name is and launches a daemon for that. it allows multiple openvpn tunnels without writing a systemd service for each
<diddledan> I spent an age discovering that though
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> I trawled through oodles of directories and manpages and such trying to figure it all out
<brobostigon> i can imaginee.
<diddledan> systemd is chalk and cheese - on the one hand it does amazing things, but on the other assimilation/borg
<diddledan> resistance is overrated
<brobostigon> nice reference there, :)
<diddledan> https://d2v48i7nl75u94.cloudfront.net/uploads/bd6ca78ed947f240336d4ee6264a047f.png
<diddledan> even better, recursion: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-05SU6dK3nkw/VlYUz8TRhAI/AAAAAAAAhp8/bQtNtVwYKT4/s506/15%2B-%2B1
<daftykins> how quiet!
<diddledan> shush!
 * daftykins mimes to diddledan of how quiet it is
 * diddledan signs "not so loud!"
 * zmoylan-pi luxuriates in the cone of silence which has great air con...
<diddledan> hmm, I want air con!
<zmoylan-pi> and for the kids in the channel who have no idea what the cone of silence is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWtPPWi6OMQ
 * daftykins watches intently
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcKHBgZ_QKU
<daftykins> upgrade edition!
<daftykins> i thought the tanned bloke in the related vid was John McAfee
<zmoylan-pi> one walnut tanned nutter looks like every other walnut tanned nutter
<daftykins> \;.
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> someone just shared this with me: http://www.gizoogle.net/tranzizzle.php?search=%40marthaStewart&se=Go+Git+Dis+Shiznit
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-11
<darknite> hello
<diddledan> anyone watching windows subsystem for Linux, aka Ubuntu  on Windows?
<diddledan> just thought this was interesting considering supposedly gnome stuffs are broken:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WKZqAhL1/image.png
<diddledan> it only works when running nautilus through strace though
<diplo> looks good diddledan, who'd thought, I'd like to try it... but that means Win10 :P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the main problem right now it seems for getting gui progs running properly is that unix-sockets are unsupported
<diddledan> i.e. tcp works, but file-descriptor-based sockets fail
<diddledan> ref: https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/134
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> m00
<knightwise> Howdie peepss
<diddledan> allo allo
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2 how are you this fine day?
<davmor2> well I lived through Tuesday just I'm gonna see how I get through today
<MooDoo> davmor2: you can do it :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<fasc> Hello, hello.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Third Shift Workers' Day! ð  ð
<zmoylan-pi> 3rd shift... for people you don't let your customers see
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, could say the same for homeworkers. ð
<fasc> Halfway through my weekly charade of pretending to work.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm reminded of the comment winston churchill is said to have said when he went to bletchly park, 'when i told you to leave no stone unturned to find the people you need i didn't mean for you to take me quite so literally' :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: got this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09QJt9MBBUY
<fasc> If its a bit on home working, this is what you should watch (Mitchell and Webb) - https://youtu.be/KGg1567fzTY
<foobarry>  https://www.facebook.com/skynews/videos/1265278883486706/ heh
<SuperMatt> I really should start following sky on social media
<davmor2> JamesTait: what do you think I think that pretty much covers 3rd shifts right :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, that just about covers it! ð
<SuperMatt> $7 a month for unlimited free github repos \o/
<knightwise> morning
<foobarry> SuperMatt: we have github enterprise :D
<diddledan> SuperMatt: $7/mo for free repos?
<diddledan> I think you're confused as to the meaning of "free"
<SuperMatt> oops, I meant to add "private"
<SuperMatt> instead of free
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> SuperMatt: for teams it can be a retrograde step to use the new pricing - $25/user/mo for unlimited use vs any number of users with limited repos
<diddledan> it depends how actively you're using it I guess
<diddledan> I think the new model is more predictable for businesses to quantify in invoicing, though
<Switches> Anyone else finding this oracle vs google thing kinda entertaining? Also makes me want more coffee.
<daftykins> java + android legal battle? not really
<Switches> Yeah, or well kind of.. I'm actually finding it amusing
<popey> Switches: yeah, following the tweets, quite entertaining
<Switches> Same here.. found the oracle attorney not knowing the difference between a blog and google news post funny
<zmoylan-pi> and if ever there was a tea drinking irc channel then would ubuntu-uk not be it? :-)
<popey> fun to hear Schwarz' emails being read out
<Switches> tea drinking channel... If it is I'm in the wrong place I hate tea, coffee man myself
<Switches> Yeah some of them you can just tell are being chosen without context
<Switches> I bet at times Google kick themselves for not buying Sun.
<zmoylan-pi> hard to know what you'll regret doing/not doing till afterwards so not much point in doing so
<awilkins> Haha L all the things are on fire : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=819HjNLDOSg
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-12
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> it's nice to see we have the good weather back
<diplo> You do?!?!?!?!!?
<SuperMatt> well, it's a lot better than the rest of the week
<diplo> Its not raining here, that's about the most positive part I could say :)
<knightwise> mornin peeps
<knightwise> how are you doing this fine morning
<Myrtti> tired
<diplo> tired and sore! But at work, so alls good in the world :D
<zmoylan-pi> it's thursday, arthur dent could never get the hang of thursdays...
<zmoylan-pi> douglas adams dead 15 years yesterday...
<SuperMatt> I always went past his grave in Highgate Cemetary, because there would be lots of pens stuck in the ground
<SuperMatt> https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3406/4640037261_d0f1d5e6c6_z.jpg
<SuperMatt> much like that
<SuperMatt> though now the trend is to put them in a pot
<zmoylan-pi> they could ask that people put coloured pencils into the pot which could then be donated to kids hospitals or something
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> zmoylan-pi: that's a good idea, but they're left out quite regularly, so they'd be affected by the elements
<SuperMatt> further more, childrens hospitals don't accept anything which cannot be washed with boiling water and sterilised - pencils and crayons would be right out
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland a lot of the more popular graves are cleared every night
<SuperMatt> I have ~3000 comics which I would *love* to donate to a children's hospital, but it's not allowed
<davmor2> Morning all you Wednesday Survivors and Welcome to Thursday :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Awareness Day!
<JamesTait> Florence Nightingale's birthday, apparently.
<JamesTait> http://www.may12th.org/
<davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz64hWng2vM
<JamesTait> Blimey, davmor2, am I that predictable?
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're a bit early today actually :)
<JamesTait> :-O
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're right!  I should go back to bed!
<Oli> I think the correct response is: A JamesTait is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
<davmor2> and just because it's her birthday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiQhh1eT6b4
<JamesTait> Or, since it's also Limerick Day: There once was a chap called JamesTait, Who was never early, nor late, He just came online at whatever time, And some days he just couldn't wait.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you normally announce yourself around the start of my 10am meeting is the only reason I know so sometime I have to wait till the end of the meeting to grab the link for you :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I had planned to push on with my garage conversion first thing, but since it involves moving my desk to put down a damp-proof membrane and a sheet of plywood I thought I might have been over-optimistic.
<zmoylan-pi> you need a floating desk suspended from hydrogen weather balloons... you will need a no smoking sign mind... :-)
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's a weird playlist right :)
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> moin
<davmor2> czajkowski: howdy stranger by the way your nick is wrong :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: not changing that :)
<davmor2> hahaha
<knightwise> hey peeps
<davmor2> knightwise: morning
<knightwise> hey davmor2 , hows it hanging
<davmor2> knightwise: I made it to Thursday only one more day to go ;)
<knightwise> davmor2: yeah ! thank god for that. I'm in zombie mode today too
<knightwise> have been giving talks in the evening after work for two days straight
<popey> czajkowski: welcome back
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<Switches> Well that sounds interesting http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-Linux-4.7-Is-Big around 60,000 lines of code...
<sebsebseb> hi
<Switches> heya
<sebsebseb> Switches: hi
<davmor2> hello
<sebsebseb> davmor2: hi
<popey> hello
<sebsebseb> popey: hi
<sebsebseb> popey: what you been up to?
<popey> just setup my bq m10 :)
<sebsebseb> popey: oh right nice
<sebsebseb> popey: and set up as in what?
<sebsebseb> what did you put on it etc
<sebsebseb> popey: now we need you to make say 50 more decent quality apps, to make Ubuntu touch as a platform better :d
<sebsebseb> so yeah no web apps :)
<diddledan> what's wrong with web apps?
<popey> some webapps are okay
<zmoylan-pi> don't work when web is not around?
<sebsebseb> diddledan: they can be ok, but that's what the Ubuntu store mostly still has
<popey> good way to keep data siloed from one another
<davmor2> sebsebseb: that's not fair, web-apps have there place, for example, facebook twitter and google+ are all pointless apps if you are not on-line
<diddledan> I consider cordova as webapp
<popey> e.g. they can't track you with their fb cookie if you have a different cookie in each app
<sebsebseb> need more native apps though
<sebsebseb> things like uhmm well anything reallyk but worth installing :)
<sebsebseb> from fun things, to more serious productivity type apps etc
<popey> sure, i agree
<popey> more apps is always nice
<sebsebseb> altough once the convergence is sorted out more properly, I guess about 20 years or so worth of Desktop Linux programs will work nicely with Ubuntu Touch as well :d
<diddledan> you can't just say "we need more apps" and expect it to magically be so though
<sebsebseb> diddledan: yep
<sebsebseb> diddledan: hence why I jokeinly said that popey should make say 50 more good quality native apps, since I have installed an app or two or three that it says was made by him
<popey> I like that i can use an emoji for my users name http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/2016/device-2016-05-12-143253.png
<sebsebseb> diddledan: plus actsaully since he works for Canonical he might have more interest in  improving the app situation, than certain other people.
<popey> yeah
<popey> fair point
 * sebsebseb thinks popey should try and get Mark to pay him to make loads of Ubuntu touch apps of good quality maybe, he h h e h ( I half jokingly say that )
<sebsebseb> fair point to my coment to diddledan ?
<sebsebseb> popey: the OS itself is quite nice we know that,  and convergence  is interesting to, but one thing lets it down still lack of apps yep
 * sebsebseb might regret not going to somethng tonight a bit
<sebsebseb> hi switches
<Switches> hey sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> Switches: can I pm you?  its just I noticed something that's slightly interesting
<Switches> Sure
<daftykins> o0
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yes me and Switches have this uhmm awesome chat going on that your not part of he h  h eh , isn't that right Switches he h h eh ?
<daftykins> yesterday i almost thought Switches was you
<daftykins> :P
<sebsebseb> daftykins: oh why's that since the S ?
<Switches> Na I'm me :p
<Switches> Plus I just normally lurk around for a while
<diddledan> blocked ear ftl
<diddledan> tons of gooey earwax leaking ftw (yey for otex eardrops!)
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> save that up for candles... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I can hear at least today
<daftykins> diddledan: ah that must be so satisfying, did you get the joyous moment it opened up again, or still waiting?
<diddledan> oh I did. I rejoyced
<diddledan> rejoiced?
<diddledan> htf do you speel?
<daftykins> yes!
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> you're British sir, you're not supposed to!
<zmoylan-pi> he'll soon have some color in his cheeks...
<diddledan> I wonder how difficult it will be to adjust in the channel islands if Britain decides to leave the EU
<daftykins> what's this drama? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/05/11/pausing-philws-involvement-in-ubuntu/
<diddledan> same for gibraltar
<daftykins> diddledan: we already get screwed, so just an extra level of i'd imagine :P
<diddledan> wtf? that sounds serious (the philw thing)
<daftykins> yeah doesn't sound too good
<Switches> Something to do with his conduct I guess, breaching the CoC isn't really something they look kindly upon. Also stopped him having a position in ubuntuGNOME I think.
<daftykins> well yes that's as much as can be assumed from the link, but more specifics is naturally what was sought
<sebsebseb> Switches: daftykins uhmm seen it before with Jonhan Riddel
<sebsebseb> that kiind of thing
<sebsebseb> the Kubuntu guy yeah
<daftykins> right but there were tonnes of write ups about that one
<Switches> Well just my opinion but after the J Riddel crap I think it should be kept between those concerned and that post is more a "heads up" for the community
<sebsebseb> there was that thing in the Linux media about that not so long ago
<sebsebseb> also I hae actsaully mett Riddel in person the other year at FOSDEM, and then saw a talk he did this year
<daftykins> ah so not just a gadget fanboy then ;)
<diddledan> I think the council should explain their decisions rather than just saying "this is what we decided. live with it."
<sebsebseb> daftykins: who me?
<daftykins> yeah
<sebsebseb> daftykins: no I started going to FOSDEM in 2012 since another distro. and one that isn't based on Ubuntu
<daftykins> always healthy to see how the ubuntu crowd functions (and by that i mean, not healthy)
<sebsebseb> daftykins: that also took me to the more Ubuntu focussed event OGG Camp as well though,  or well not quite, but yeah I went to that as well after FOSDEM, met popey h eh
<daftykins> any troublemakers get ejected!
<Switches> Well they have to cut it somewhere. Bringing up personal arguments and crap always gets twisted in the press and media. I think the council in this have done the right thing
<zmoylan-pi> he doesn't know, he got kicked out... :-P
<sebsebseb> daftykins: gadjet fa n boy not quite, I do see Ubuntu Touch at becoming more popular possibly though,  if well  the app situation is much more sorted out for a start :d and convegence as well
<daftykins> Switches: you're talking about it as you know the details, but i was saying i have no idea - so it's a bit puzzling :P
<diddledan> it's not transparent, which I feel is important for a community council to be
<popey> not convicned
<popey> would you fancy a blog post with your name on saying all the ways in which you suck?
<Switches> Lets say I been following it a bit. I think a few have, but tbh it's just people being people, we have way better things to focus on than a few "hotheads" in the community
<sebsebseb> I think all commnites etc, get drama at time!
<Myrtti> popey: is the nickname really philw or is there a typo and it's phillw instead? just wondering, I don't think dholbach is online to check from
<popey> good point
<Switches> The way I see it is the council knows the whole story, its not one person making a decision its what 8 people or something? let them deal with it. we put them there.
<diddledan> no. gossip isn't what I'm after, I think an explanation of the kind "diddledan and popey regularly argued about personal things which often descended into insults. it is therefore the council's decision that diddledan should leave the community for a period of 12 months so that all parties may cool-off"
<diddledan> even if the council explained why they feel details should be retained behind closed-doors would be appropriate to satisfy my curiosity
<diddledan> it's the nature I want to understand, not the details
<daftykins> diddledan: agreed
<daftykins> otherwise it just looks like strongarming by those in 'power'
<Switches> You know when people say stuff like this I always wonder where the "voices" go when the matters are important to the community. No matter what the council says or does someone somewhere will find a way to pick it apart and take what they want from it, either to improve their own perceived standing or to get some more clicks.
<Switches> I guess I'm just old... and not so inquisitive now lol
<daftykins> i've no idea what you mean there
<Switches> Which part, the part where I'm to old? or the bit with people trying to get the one up on someone else?
<daftykins> the latter
<daftykins> actually, maybe it's better to move on
<Switches> Well look at news sites or the Linux media, they are always doing it. They try to move stuff in a direction that is so say neutral while back handedly slapping someone in the face.
<daftykins> i don't follow any
<sebsebseb> the Linux media likes some whining as well at itmes it seems
<sebsebseb> polotics
<sebsebseb> in fighthing etc
<Switches> lol then lets leave it, I was pretty much talking about the whole council thing at the moment
<daftykins> by that i meant Linux media, i don't visit or read any
<sebsebseb> and councils don't always do the best thing for anything in general that has a council
<Switches> I do as much as I can stomach. lol
<Switches> That's very true seb but at the end of the day we are all human and without making mistakes at times we don't learn crap.
<daftykins> from the outside though arguing and in-fighting seems to be the definition of open source :P
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yep that sounds about right :D
<Switches> At points from outside the community it does look like that daftykins
<zmoylan-pi> it's what makes open source code good in some ways
<sebsebseb> also means we get like three thousand distros too :d
<zmoylan-pi> i don't like were you're taking this text editor so i'm going to write my own... :-)
<Switches> It's actually imo one of it's strengths but also its Achilles heal
<sebsebseb> I don't like the name of that program  since it's named after zmoylan-pi  so I am going to make a big fuss and get it re named or someone to fork it :d
<Switches> yep spot on zmoylan-pi but sometimes it does lead to a lot of innovation and a fresh perspective
<daftykins> surely at times it turns into a multiplication of workload, which the forking folks could have better used on working with the original project
<zmoylan-pi> it's like all code.  at some points it comes time to scrap what you have and start fresh.  open source will always have someone ready at that time wanting to do that... :-)
<Switches> For me atleast that's what ubuntu and its derivatives do the best, they push stuff to get better even if sometimes they get referred to as suffering from "NIH" syndrome (which imo is way off base)
<daftykins> it's quite amusing reading about Mint dropping the inclusion of codecs from images, since it was often what a lot of Mint fans pointing to as being better than Ubuntu :D
<daftykins> oops s/pointing/pointed/
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't read on why mint decided to do that
<zmoylan-pi> seems daft
<sebsebseb> daftykins: I saw a comment to do with htat on omgubuntu where someone was like,  right well I'll just go back to Ubuntu then
<Switches> Ain't got a clue tbh I try to stay away from Mint and Arch in general >.>
<sebsebseb> daftykins: and someone else was like, really losing you since that?
<sebsebseb> Switches: why's that?
<Switches> Never liked Mints choices tbh (especially some of the keeping back security fixes) also Arch for me is just for users who can't use a Gentoo, Funtoo or LFS install
<daftykins> well we saw users doing that about minor things in #ubuntu too, i think it's the more youthful folks who hop distro on a weekly basis because they have the time and impatience to hop.
<sebsebseb> Switches: hmm maybe to the Arch thing, but  Arch is apparnatly so amazing
<diddledan> I tried mint once. their custom builds of some packages conflicted with packages they relied on ubuntu repos for such as mod_php from ubuntu refusing to interact with mint's custom apache build
<diddledan> I forget the specifics but that put me off for life
<zmoylan-pi> i have mint on one system (the one i'm using at the moment) it's nice but i prefer xubuntu and will probably switch this machine to xubuntu at some point
<Switches> So people say, all of Archs strengths are always referred to as AUR which is from the community and not actually Arch itself, It doesn't sell the Arch "way" to me, but then thats just me. I use Gentoo, Funtoo, Ubuntu and Fedora pretty much daily
<Switches> Gentoo and Funtoo are a lot of work, building stuff from source for everything, but the performance you can get from it is impressive. Ubuntu and Fedora have basically the best Binary installs around with .deb (and now snappy for ubuntu) and .rpm plus copr for Fedora
<daftykins> i dunno, i asked a longtime Gentoo user and they admitted it wasn't worth the effort at the end of the day
<daftykins> life is too short for a distro like that :)
<Switches> Tbh it depends a lot on what you run aswell, using a desktop processor to run the gentoo builds on is a waste of time imo, but you get a couple of xeons doing it with a stack of memory and it def shows what it can be capable of
<daftykins> diddledan loves working with gentoo on servers ;D
<Switches> :D
<diddledan> I'm doing that right now
<Switches> Well tbh people say its not "production" ready, but in all honesty it depends on how you build it and what flags you choose to use.
<zmoylan-pi> it's the brag factor with gentoo... you're running the latest version?? just how much ram and cpu does that thing have?! :-)
<daftykins> the sweet white flag of surrender
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Tbh the distro you use shouldn't really be a factor and tbh it kinda pisses me off that people make it such a big deal, at the end of the day Linux is Linux no matter what you choose to run, you're making a better decision than running Windows or OS-X
<davmor2> daftykins: that was a great debut album for dido was the "of surrender" but the remix version?
<daftykins> i don't like the use of the word 'better', it all has problems at the end of the day
<daftykins> they all, rather (all OSs)
<daftykins> davmor2: heh i have no idea about that
<daftykins> good ol' depressing tunes Dido
<Switches> Yeah they do, nothing is perfect. But for me you can customise Linux to be what you need, when you need it. Ubuntu, Fedora and Opensuse make it "easier" in the sense of fancy UI and stuff but underneath the power of them is all on par.
<davmor2> daftykins: no depressing is evanescence, placibo etc :)
<daftykins> hehe
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> evanescence isn't depressing!
<diddledan> I love evanessence
<Switches> placibo I gotta admit i agree there :p
<daftykins> Switches: not everyone needs that though, i support folks but they stick to Windows land because they're mostly married to the experiences of e.g. MS Outlook for their email and can't be torn away, it's a shame to be that self restricted but in truth Linux just wouldn't work in their business travelling laptops and so on as i'd always seen battery life get trashed
<davmor2> Switches: listen to the lyrics and the music separately I think you'll find that is exactly the tone they are going for ;)
<daftykins> i really wouldn't push Linux onto people either, since i most likely couldn't resolve the kinds of problems they'd see
<daftykins> or putting up with said users for coping with the change wouldn't be something i'm brave enough for :D
<Switches> I don't push linux as imo it's not for "everybody", Windows is right for some people, Linux is right for others, Mac well we can just put that in the "do not touch" category
<diddledan> davmor2: the lyrics of evanessence are dark/depressing I agree. I love it though
<daftykins> Switches: :D agreed
<diddledan> I'm a closet emo
<davmor2> diddledan: hey I didn't say it was all good music :)
<davmor2> wasn't even
<zmoylan-pi> isn't a closet emo every emo ever? :-)
<Switches> davmor2 if the music isn't loud enough to deafen you, you're not doing it right! that's why it sounds depressing xD
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I don't draw the giant black tears or wear black with chains
<davmor2> Switches: it's the same music loud or quiet :P
<Switches> Na when its loud enough its nothing but a hum and big smashes xD
<Switches> <-- is also a bit of a metalhead
<davmor2> Switches: daftykins: I think designers and musicians would argue with you over the need for apple products
<diddledan> I want a new mac
<zmoylan-pi> but it's sunny weather and summer now
<Switches> Yeah they would, because that is what they are accustomed to the same reason Linux users argue with other Linux users, doesn't always mean its the right thing for the job though :p
<daftykins> actually, i think designers lock themselves into Apple as much as Windows users lock themselves into MS Office
<daftykins> they haven't been restricted to mac for over 12 years, but they know it so they keep buying them - the industry doesn't lock them into their use
<zmoylan-pi> well ibm stopped making thinkpads so apples it is
<daftykins> music, probably - not familiar with that kind of work myself
<Switches> Tbh people using Windows and Mac have their reasons, I just don't always agree with the outlook. Linux for the past 25 or so years has always done what I have asked of it (although Linux does suck at making coffee!!).
<zmoylan-pi> you just need the right emacs extension for coffee
<davmor2> daftykins: the industry does, because training for design happens on macs guess what you think you need to make it as a designer :D
<daftykins> nah that's not true either
<Switches> Well they have linux on cow milking machines, wonder when they will get it right on a coffee maker?
<daftykins> sure they may push that way of thinking, but more often than not it's living in Adobe products which they can get on Windows too
<diddledan> photoshop is the staple diet for for webdesigners
<davmor2> daftykins: My friend is at Uni currently doing design and illustration they have the only computer lab that has macs in it, all the others have pc's so you were saying
 * zmoylan-pi imagines the horror of a milking machine running windows...
<Switches> rofl
<zmoylan-pi> cows whizzing through the air like deflating balloons everywhere...
<daftykins> davmor2: i'm not doubting that educational establishments would be fostering macs for those courses, but the idea they'd need to own one themselves is definitely dubious
<Switches> Yeah you can just see that image in your head.. "OMG BSOD ON COW MILKER ONE! RUN FOR COVER!"
<davmor2> daftykins: no they don't, but if they use them all day it becomes the thing they are used to so don't go for pc's because they can't use them as easily as macs
<davmor2> and so on
<daftykins> yeah, agreed - but that'll only be some of them
<davmor2> daftykins: I bet it is more than you think
<daftykins> it probably is fair to see creative types are going to be less understanding or interested in understanding the tools of their trade
<daftykins> but what i mainly want to get at is dispelling this myth that it has to be macs to do the work :>
<diddledan> creative types like the brand of apple because they're creative types
<daftykins> "i enjoy buying a machine that can't be repaired or upgraded!"
<daftykins> :D
<Switches> People learn one thing and think that they have to stay in those confines, never realising half the great stuff they could do by just thinking outside the box
<Switches> Doesn't help the companies pushing adverts everywhere you look "This is the ONLY product you will ever need (as long as you never want to do anything outside of the walled garden)"
<davmor2> daftykins: and I agree but they won't they will find a million and one reasons why blender the gimp and scribus suck to hell and back
<Switches> davamor2 the funny thing with that is mostly its because of the "plugins" they use and not the actual program itself
<davmor2> Switches: probably
<Switches> Its the "can you use this instead?", "yeah, sure I can but I cant use this extortionately priced plugin I've came to rely on"
<daftykins> davmor2: oh i wasn't in any way saying they would go to Linux, but they can get the Adobe suite on Windows :>
<Switches> If I'm totally honest.. I would rather have them use a PC than a Mac, but then I've had my time working with apple hardware... Apple X-servers yuck!
<daftykins> haha, they've not even had those for years
<Switches> Yep but my hate for Apple has lasted since then :p
<daftykins> a mate of mine was working in Apple offices in London, no joke they had RAID arrays being attached to mac minis because they don't produce server kit anymore
<daftykins> i say was, still is i think
<Switches> well they did release that stupid mini server at one point..
<daftykins> well it's a bit more concerning when they are phoning up the nearby retail store to go and buy their own hardware - and little toys to run a business :D
<Switches> Back when it was PPC arch I could see some of the reasons for using macs, now its just a pc in a fancy case using hardware that worse than I use in my "used part" builds
<daftykins> and you get to pay a premium for it :D
<Switches> Yeah...
<zmoylan-pi> the ppc systems were really nice
<daftykins> oh and quirky EFIs that essentially stop you trying to do what you want
<zmoylan-pi> i still have a ppc mac mini here somewhere in a box...
<Switches> Hell yeah I loved PPC
<zmoylan-pi> ran cool
<daftykins> G4s didn't :>
<Switches> lol G4s were known for being a little "warm"
<zmoylan-pi> now i have to admit i was asked to install a hard drive into a g4.  i had never so muched as touched a mac before but the musician asked me as he trusted me.  the design INSIDE the case was beautiful
<Switches> Guess that happens when you cram something like that inside a plastic case with little to no airflow or cooling :p
<zmoylan-pi> it opened up in a way as to make servicing so easy and accessible
<zmoylan-pi> drive slid in. screws needed to hold it were screwed into place ready for it
<Switches> Oh yeah the case was well designed and a dream to work with, but my god you ever look where the fans were and how few of them there were :p
<daftykins> mmm, was quite easy popping the can on a mid 2010 macbook pro also
<daftykins> Switches: where?
<daftykins> in the world?
<zmoylan-pi> made more annoying as i had spent 3 hours that day installing an extra drive in a low profile ast and had cut my hands badly on all the sharp edges
<daftykins> :S
<Switches> Well the older G4s had two fans one in the power supply and one as an intake behind a 1/4" steel plate with no holes in it xD
<daftykins> all this talk has had me boot my vmware VM of OS X 10.11
<daftykins> not a fan of OS X in any edition :P
<Switches> OS X isn't that bad tbh, but it doesn't run on anything but Apple which kinda sucks (unless you wanna build a hackintosh and voodoo magic to boot it)
<daftykins> my VM gives me exposure when i need some first hand insight for a client
<zmoylan-pi> and their push for an app store now on osx is not a nice direction
<Switches> Best thing to do, I used to use Darwin a lot years ago in the early days of OS X
<Switches> I really should try and find another G5 at some point to play around with Darwin and Darwine on (although Darwine hasn't been touched since like 2008 or something)
<Switches> Or maybe just get one to run ubuntu on again, had fun with a G4 getting DRI running on it.
<diddledan> darwine as in the wine emulator for Darwin?
<Switches> yeah
<daftykins> a lot of people are putting glass sheets over two and making attractive coffee tables from G5s now ;)
<diddledan> meh, just use wine
<Switches> Where's the fun in that :p
<Switches> hmm G5 coffee table.. that sounds interesting...
<diddledan> use the CD drives as real coffeecup holders
<zmoylan-pi> i did see a nice g5 coffee table online recently.  a bit sad for such a powerful computer
<Switches> Maybe someone should make a touch version of the G5 coffee table xD
<daftykins> surely you mean 'once powerful' :)
<zmoylan-pi> no you rig up the cd drive to push the cat away when it tries to jump onto the table
<Switches> Tbh the chips in the G5 although compared to stuff like Haswell and Skylake are weak, against most chips they actually perform really well. But having said that they are PPC so no surprise really
<daftykins> you do often get some diehards come into #ubuntu asking for help installing new releases on the things, can't say i took that seriously though
<zmoylan-pi> the ppc platform never seemed to get fully going so it never seemed to reach its full potential
<Switches> Well Ubuntu ran for years on my G4 and my old G5 but wasn't without a few hiccups
<daftykins> i thought they reached a thermal ceiling too early, was a problem?
<zmoylan-pi> i live in ireland... we'd never reach it's thermal ceiling... :-P
<diddledan> that's the reason so many datacentres are in Ireland. you don't need air conditioning; just open a window and you're sety
<Switches> rofl
<daftykins> :>
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the customer whos pc was in office built beside ice plant for fish shipping company... instructions even in summer. 1) turn on bottled gas heater 2) wait 30minutes 3) start cpm computer...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'll bet those were violated on occasion
<zmoylan-pi> the air used to condense even then on the wall and fall like mist to the floor and flow out the door
<Switches> Early stages of Water Cooling :p
<zmoylan-pi> if the rules were disobeyed the motherboards cracked as going from -20 to 30c in 5 minutes was bad
<zmoylan-pi> and then they'd have to wait 2-3 days till we found another sacrifical cpm computer to replace their dead one
<Switches> Well they aren't exactly designed to have that wide a variance in temperature. I'm surprised they just cracked lol
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: how often did that happen? :)
<zmoylan-pi> 2-3 times in about 20 years of use? it would survive a fair few times till it had enough
<daftykins> come to think of it in my youth, my dad has us wait plenty of time when the dan pentium 1 first showed up, to let it acclimatise to the temperature of the house vs. the shipping it'd just endured
<Switches> meh no deliveries today, guess I'm waiting again for my little MATX build to come together
<zmoylan-pi> those computers were very resillient
<daftykins> i don't really wait to fire up anything when it's new now o0 probably should :D
<Switches> Who does? You normally go into "New Toy!" mode well before you think about that :p
<daftykins> haha indeed
<daftykins> shiny shiny! aka crow mode, as i call it
<Switches> Yep
<zmoylan-pi> and why do they try and slow you down with these 'read me first' instructions!! :-)
<Switches> Love getting new "shiny" stuff
<daftykins> pff whoever learnt anything relevant from such paperwork :D
<Switches> Or they make the packaging so damn hard to open!
<zmoylan-pi> swiss army knife gets through all packaging
<diddledan> the read me first is useful to figure out what you did wrong if you find it doesn't work ootb
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes even the cables inside the package :-D
<diddledan> obviously you don't read it first
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I've damaged things like that before, too
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> then it's hunt around to find similar cable and nick it no a
<zmoylan-pi> no matter what it's connected to at the time
<zmoylan-pi> i swear if iron lung machines used usb there'd be a few incidents recorded... :-P
<daftykins> i picked up a little portable cassette player as a kid, the guy in the shop spoke of how they often would snip the headphone cables by accident opening up the silly blister packs... when i took it home and did exactly that, i took it back and said it wasn't me 8D
<Switches> Always keep spare cables around so I don't really get that problem.. although when you have a scsi lead that you have kept as a "spare" for over 10 yrs and don't even have an 40pin scsi drive anymore.... bit worrying i guess
<daftykins> (they had to write something on the warranty cards)
<daftykins> haha, i have those types of spares for PATA now - i keep 1 or 2 lying around but i'd be glad to never see any of that kit again
<Switches> lol same here
<zmoylan-pi> you keep the scsi cables around for whipping the bad hardware...
<Switches> Well yeah it often works
<diddledan> I've still got a scsi drive array full of scsi disks
<zmoylan-pi> it relieves pressure and prevents you from breaking your foot kicking a full height server with redundant power supplies
<diddledan> not powered-on
 * SuperEngineer heard that even the UK government keep a spare Cable ;-)
<Switches> I even have an old Dell 1600SC server here that I use... talk about being into "archaeology" lol
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: Vince Cable?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<zmoylan-pi> my brother has had dealings with irish army.  they know how to store a few odds and sods for spares :-)
<zmoylan-pi> huge warehouses just full of parts, pristine, untouched, perfect
<daftykins> DOA in the packet - doh! ;)
<diddledan> I've got a few of these in their rackmount form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ztYj80HSY
<Switches> holy crap.. aint seen one of those for years...
<diddledan> I've got three
<daftykins> nothing like a 3 day POST
<Switches> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj76sLJO3PY there's the one I got lol
<zmoylan-pi> ah the whine of a tape drive... promising so much backup and so seldom doing it...
<diddledan> they're bleeding loud when all three are running
<zmoylan-pi> not using ear protection?
<Switches> I bet... must be like sitting next to a Boeing
<zmoylan-pi> a boeing could sneak past when 3 of them are running i suspect...
<Switches> Even my old Q6600 that I use daily is quieter than that!
<daftykins> :) Q6600 is my desktop i just retired
<daftykins> thinking of snagging a PSU for it though then giving it away
<Switches> Ain't retired mine yet, probably wont for atleast another year lol
<daftykins> my chipset was failing sadly, so it was time to go
<Switches> Building a new used machine for myself then daughter will prob have the 6600
<Switches> Well that should have been "new/used" machine.. as In some new parts with older motherboard/CPU combo
<daftykins> ah not a victim to the apple camp then? ;) desiring the sleek identical look
<Switches> Na, got a Bitfenix Phenom MATX case and a nice PGA1155 intel board with a e3 1230v2
<daftykins> the daughter i meant there of course
<Switches> Ohh right, na she likes the "vintage" stuff as she calls it
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> it's an odd one on my Q6600's motherboard, some days it will just decide the primary SATA controller (first 2 ports) will say goodbye - so no devices are detected for a few power cycles, on those
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uviwm78kqd30en/IMG_20160413_134814.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> that's it there
<diddledan> daftykins: maybe capacitor failure?
<Switches> nice, shame its dying..
<daftykins> would it really go for weeks on end though without, if so?
<daftykins> i'm assuming the SSD isn't to blame since popping it in port 3 it fired up fine
<daftykins> ah well, glad i no longer have to put up with such quirks
<Switches> The quirks are sometimes the best part
<Switches> With one of mine at the mo it decides the USB ports aren't working and spits out a wonderful kernel panic when it does..
<daftykins> erk!
<Switches> Just the joys of using old hardware really. I kinda refuse to buy a new comp as they are way to expensive imo. Even the parts have gotten to be to much for very little increase in power
<diddledan> daftykins: with dying caps they'll be fine when they're running but cold-start they may be flakey
<daftykins> ah, yeah it was more the other way around then - took at least a couple of hours use, maybe a few
<diddledan> that sounds more likely a component suffering when warm then
<daftykins> Switches: well, i dropped Â£600 on the skylake setup - case, i7 6700, new M.2 PCIe SSD and 32GB RAM... super nice and efficient compared with the ol' core 2 quad build
<diddledan> possibly your sata chip is on it's way out and it manifests due to heat
<daftykins> yeah, though just the primary portion in the southbridge
<Switches> Well that's not a bad price. I just enjoy Xeons so for me to get a "new-ish" one was around Â£1200 quid
<diddledan> another possibility is the psu isn't providing enough on the 3v3 rail so the chip is sometimes not getting enough jews
<Switches> And no way I'm paying that when I can get an older gen for around Â£200 lol
<Switches> If I could have found a nice LGA1366 board I would have been set, I have two E5620 lying around doing jack.
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> is the 1366 the original i-cpu-series socket?
<diddledan> e.g. the i7 920?
<diddledan> I've got an i7 920 here unused
<daftykins> yep
<Switches> Yeah the board is the first gen
<Switches> Couldn't find any boards with a respectable price on ebay or any of my local second hand shops, so I got a cheap 1155 for the other Xeon i had lying around.
<Switches> brb need coffee
<daftykins> too many sockets :(
<diddledan> setec astronomy
<diddledan> no, wait, that was "secrets"
<Anarchy_> o/
<Switches> Now that's some good news http://gpuopen.com/compressonator-is-going-open-source/
<rubbercable> how do i get unity 3d games to work on 16.04?
<daftykins> what've you tried / what happens?
<daftykins> actually i don't even know about that ones availability under Linux
<rubbercable> white screen on firefox - chnged my nividia to 3d accel already
<rubbercable> fresh install, first time on ubuntu since 12.04
<rubbercable> daftykins: I thought unity3d was native in ubuntu
<daftykins> pass.
<rubbercable> I think i might have confused myself between unity and unity3d(windows/mac only).
<daftykins> experimental build since august of last year, mmk
<rubbercable> nevermind  -  i really came back to ubuntu for juju/conjure-up/openstack&zfs anyway.
<rubbercable> and maas :)
<daftykins> https://fat.gfycat.com/HandmadeGivingAddax.webm new Uncharted game o0
<popey> rubbercable: their web plugin doesn't work on linux
<rubbercable> popey: unity3d?
<popey> yes
<popey> they have a new experimental webgl exporter
<popey> and I see they're working on a pure SDL one
<popey> but the web plugin is windows only i think
<rubbercable> popey: nevermind:) probably would have lost weeks of productive time with that - it's probably for the best
<popey> heh
<diddledan> perhaps we need to, as nerds, teach the world a lesson that APIs need to be freely usable by turning off the internet: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/in-google-v-oracle-the-nerds-are-getting-owned
<zmoylan-pi> they did that with sopa and turning off wikipedia and a few other sites for the day.  perhaps a yearly day of protest for that years biggest power grab in computing
<diddledan> yeah we need to be bigger asses than that
<diddledan> we need to turn off everything that uses a currently free api
<zmoylan-pi> and make it april 1st so nerds can get rid of the bad jokes and do something useful
<diddledan> no, we need it to be painful, not helpful
<diddledan> we need to get the world to sit up and take notice
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be painful to technots but useful to nerds
<zmoylan-pi> the only way you could make it work is if you can get the googles, the ms's and apples on board as they're the only companies a lot of the non technical people have heard of
<diddledan> chances this is a hoax? https://twitter.com/pjf/status/730215052750381056
<diddledan> I know the name Paul Fenwick but can't remember why
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-13
<diddledan> I want a Lenovo thinkpad so I can rub my nipple in public
<diddledan> seriously, what's with those things anyway?
<m0nkey_> I have a HP nipple
<m0nkey_> some HP EliteBook 820 i think
<diddledan> do you fondle it in public places?
<m0nkey_> all the time at the officde
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> i opened an interesting FreeNAS bug.. https://bugs.freenas.org/issues/15274#change-76677
<gebbione> if doing . /etc/enviornment the env variables are not reloading when i run env
<gebbione> any reasons?
<diddledan> ooh, one of my raspis running win10 just reboobed for an update
<daftykins> perhaps it'll improve mammary management
<daftykins> speaking of, the login on here is still claiming i need to reboot
<diddledan> http://www.wsj.com/articles/if-your-teacher-sounds-like-a-robot-you-might-be-on-to-something-1462546621
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
 * zmoylan-pi hands around the crunchies
<MooDoo> :) yum
<knightwise> morning
<MooDoo> morning chap :)
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you doing today
<MooDoo> knightwise: now the internet is backup at work, I can relax a little
<knightwise>  Enjoying my friday her e:)
<MooDoo> knightwise: where are you? at work or on hols?
<knightwise> at work :)
<knightwise> i'm a freelancer .. hols are rare
<popey> morning
<knightwise> morning popey
<Switches> Morning all
<knightwise> hey Switches
<Switches> Heya knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all from the caravan :)
<Switches> Heya davmor2
<knightwise> davmor2: you lucky BÂ¨sterd
<davmor2> knightwise: it is a caravan in England I see grey mostly :)  today is a bit brighter :)
 * popey heads to the airport
<popey> ttfn
<davmor2> But I still see lots of grey
<davmor2> popey: again
<zmoylan-pi> hope you brought the travel scrabble and the scrabble
<zmoylan-pi> and don't forget to do riverdance in the caravan... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKovBepY7v0
<Switches> Cya popey
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I have 20Mb down and 10Mb up why would I have scrabble
<zmoylan-pi> it's obviously not raining enough if you still have that much data :-)
<Switches> rofl
<knightwise> * Giggles *
<knightwise> hilarious
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday the 13th, and happy Blame Someone Else Day! ð
<knightwise> Its your fault its friday the 13th JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBS4zUjJZo
<Switches> lol heya JamesTait
<JamesTait> Nope. Totally davmor2's fault.
<JamesTait> ð Switches
<davmor2> JamesTait: the music might be but it is entirely your fault as I choose it based on your days :P
<knightwise> hmmm.. been working on the mac for the last couple of days at work , and i gotta say , i miss my linux machine
<zmoylan-pi> little things irking you?
<knightwise> yeah ,
<knightwise> OSX is like a fancy designer shirt that is a liiiitle too tight
<brobostigon> night boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning everyone and knightwise
<knightwise> thanx for seperating me from everyone else brobostigon
<knightwise> I always knew i was special :)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise>  *Greetings Humans*
<knightwise> (and brobostigon )
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> Human? Who are you calling a human?
<SuperMatt> I identify and a caterpillar
<SuperMatt> (which explains why I'm always hungry)
<zmoylan-pi> greetings carbon based lifeforms \o/
<SuperMatt> better
<zmoylan-pi> i enjoyed this too much... :-) https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/sht-happens-sometimes-2.gif
 * brobostigon is a wizard , :)
<SuperMatt> yer a wizard, Harry?
<brobostigon> no, not a potter wizard, a D&D wizard.
 * zmoylan-pi is a half-orc in one game and human mercenary in another
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> I need to play more D&D
 * brobostigon normally plays a human wizard, as he likes magic, :)
<zmoylan-pi> you do, it's great fun
<SuperMatt> not enough of my friends are interested though, so it's not an easy thing to get together
<zmoylan-pi> i play as fighters as i like annoying the dm by not behaving to type... my half orc barbarian is a peace loving hippy
<SuperMatt> though I understand that google hangouts is quite popular for remote d&d these days
<foobarry> didn't d&d get replaced by skyrim?
<zmoylan-pi> there are entire services devoted to playing online these days
<zmoylan-pi> d&d will exist long after every game you play on a computer is dead and gone
<brobostigon> i prefer to play in person, playing online is just too disconnected for me.
<SuperMatt> I've got a lovely enough kitchen with a big enough table that I could host
<SuperMatt> though I'm likely to host a poker game first
<SuperMatt> oooh, that's what I should do for my birthday
<Switches> Seems the steam forums are at it again with the Doom release.. all the crap about it not being on Linux lol
<SuperMatt> I imagine it will come to linux later
<brobostigon> i am in progress designing part 2 of the quest th group i play with started 5 weeks ago.
<Switches> The best part of those arguments is when they bring the oh so important "usage" links into it... I sit and think yeah great, your using a usage graph on something that is pretty much untracable lol
<SuperMatt> but the user reviews all seem pretty good
<Switches> They are the game looks great, but it being Zenimax and Bethesda makes me think Linux prob wont see it
<SuperMatt> steam's linux usage fluctuates around the 1% mark
<zmoylan-pi> tabletop d&d with a dm who has all the figures... in multiples... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/711298949517221888/photo/1 :-D
<SuperMatt> having said that, I'm not sure if it counts my pc twice, for having linux and windows
<Switches> Yeah and Steam usage surveys don't pop up for most people :p
<Switches> Actually it does, Once for Windows, Once for Linux (if you get the surveys in both ofcourse)
<Switches> Also the people using steam in wine are counted as Windows as its the Windows client...
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: :)
<Switches> just one of them things I guess, I won't buy it till it's on Linux, same as I wont by Overwatch.. But the new UT ohhh im def buying that UE4 on linux is really nice
<Switches> buy*
<SuperMatt> the new UT is free, and will always be free
<Switches> The one they were saying about on a UE stream sounded like it was being sold... if it's free that makes it even more a must have.
<SuperMatt> https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/ it's definitely free now though
<Switches> Ohh the Alpha is yeah, but if you click the download there isn't one for Linux.. yet
<SuperMatt> sure, but apparently it does work
<SuperMatt> if you're willing to get your hands dirty
<Switches> Hmm have to look on the dev site later, there may be a script like they did with the old UTs
<SuperMatt> let me know if you find something
<SuperMatt> I haven't been bothered to find out how to get it working in linux cos I have windows anyway
<Switches> Will do, just reading the community posts about it at the mo
<Switches> https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/forums/showthread.php?19159-How-do-I-install-UT4-on-LInux
<Switches> How to do it is in the community... downloading now :p
<SuperMatt> thank you
<Switches> Didn't think of looking in the community forums.. stupid of me, was looking in the dev forums as the engine download stuff is there >.<
<SuperMatt> I've got it saved in my bookmarks, so if I have some time this weekend after playing Doom, I might check it out
<Switches> :)
<Switches> Don't have Windows around apart from my phone... So unfortunatly no doom for me
<MooDoo> oh yeah forgot doom was being released today....
<MooDoo> friday 13th as well
<MooDoo> code version 666?
<SuperMatt> hurrr
<SuperMatt> I'm hoping I'll get to blast some imps tonight
<Switches> Would be good if it was, but I doubt the code version will be 666
<SuperMatt> I've got an opportunity to skip home early because there's a company meeting tonight, but I'm not my notice period, so none of this bothers me
<Switches> Well getting off work early is always a good thing.. unless you're self employed..
<Myrtti> czajkowski: ping
<czajkowski> Myrtti: pong
<diddledan> marnin
<SuperMatt> yo
<diddledan> Linux is flippin' weird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPbAXKMCDkY
<diddledan> love Bryan's presentations
<Switches> Yeah watched that a while ago. The "Cow Milker" is the best :p
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeV0pLRyM7o
<diddledan> "there are maybe 50 people in the world that understand selinux policies" http://www.serverwatch.com/server-news/selinux-vs-systemd-whats-safer-for-linux-servers.html
<davmor2> diddledan: and most of those work for the nsa and we know how well we can trust them with our secrets right
<zmoylan-pi> they'll find *AFTER* the event what you were planning, so yes...
<zmoylan-pi> and then add death by pineapples to their watchword list... :-P
<diddledan> googacle trial is nuts
<zmoylan-pi> googacle... is that we're calling it then?
<diddledan> aye
 * zmoylan-pi scribbles note in personal database...
<davmor2> I wonder why people are trying to compare selinux and systemd, one is an init system and other a security system that the init system uses maybe I'm missing the point :D
<zmoylan-pi> if it sparks an argument then it's work is done... :-P
<diddledan> davmor2: systemd doesn't use selinux at all. they have similarities in process isolation, where systemd does it in a more portable anner
<diddledan> manner
<davmor2> fair enough
<diddledan> at the end-of-the-day selinux is a patch to the kernel where the tech that systemd uses is native
<diddledan> the same tech behind things like docker
<davmor2> and lxd
<davmor2> diddledan: my point though remain they are not mutually exclusive systemd has plugins for both selinux and apparmor
<diddledan> yup, I think the security patches of either selinux or apparmor are good things to continue using to add an extra layer
<diddledan> really the tech that systemd, docker et al are using for isolation aren't actually security-boundaries. they're more just logical groups which can be isolated but aren't necessarily so. the selinux or apparmor can add DACs which prohibit breaking out
<davmor2> diddledan: indeed which is what lxd/lxc does again either with selinux or apparmor
<sebsebseb> hi
<Switches> heya
<sebsebseb> Switches: hi
<gebbione> hi folks, i cannot get my ethernet started on my desktop. The adapter light is off and trying to run network restart won't work. I have also started nm-applet but the network icon is also gone and it fails starting
<daftykins> version?
<daftykins> what changed since it last worked?
<diddledan> have you tried rebooting?
 * daftykins chases diddledan with a Doom chainsaw
<diddledan> network-manager is a pain in that once itâs stopped working properly only a full reboot will fix it :-(
<daftykins> (new one came out today :O )
<diddledan> daftykins: it had better be shareware
<daftykins> my fellow volunteers tell me it has been broken - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1434986
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1434986 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Not working network connection after boot" [Critical,Triaged]
<m6lpi> Oops
<daftykins> gebbione: ...?
<diddledan> I miss ifup and ifdown-based network management
<daftykins> i still purge resolvconf and hardcode config on servers :>
<diddledan> I get that desktops like point-n-click windows-style interfaces but the /etc/network/interfaces file was much easier
<daftykins> have to reboot now though, can't just restart the service anymore
<diddledan> yeah, `service networking restart` was easy and it seems to me theyâve broken it by mandating network manager
<gebbione> daftykins, didn't see the reply until now
<gebbione> i think it was the last update
<gebbione> i installed it yesterday night
<gebbione> i m going through http://askubuntu.com/questions/771627/14-04-network-manager-stopped-working/771841#771841 now
<daftykins> and version?
<gebbione> 14-04
<daftykins> i also had someone tell me of:
<daftykins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/771627/14-04-network-manager-stopped-working/771841#771841 ; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1539634
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1539634 in network-manager (Ubuntu Trusty) "network-manager crashes when using libnl-3-200-3.21.1-1ubuntu1" [High,Fix released]
<daftykins> so could be a recovery mode update perhaps
<gebbione> i entered recovery mode with no networking i think
<gebbione> i might need to reboot
<daftykins> is it a desktop?
<daftykins> you could bring things up manually to update
<daftykins> if connected to a router/switch with a cable it wouldn't be too much effort
<gebbione> sudo apt-get update?
<gebbione> well it is root already
<daftykins> well it depends if your connection is up
<diddledan> youâre in recovery mode and wondering why you donât have normal functionality?
<gebbione> no it is not
<daftykins> ping your router first maybe, then google.co.uk as a test
<daftykins> ok, identify your interface name via "ifconfig -a" - you might see eth0 or it could be a new funky name depending on your setup
<diddledan> hint: recovery mode is limited functionality
<gebbione> update failed to resolve repos
<diddledan> itâs designed to be limited
<diddledan> expecting unlimited is stupid
<gebbione> i ll restart with networking enabled, should work right?
<daftykins> oh is that a choice that comes up? wasn't aware, never really used recovery
<diddledan> ignore me, Iâll leave you to it
<daftykins> nah it's all good, i don't really follow the present modes limitations
<diddledan> this is hilarious: http://www.callmyadagency.com/page4.html
<diddledan> âdonât use other designers, because we use all of our brains"
<daftykins> dingo dunny paper ;D
<diddledan> read the text. itâs nuts.
<daftykins> but it's the weekend! :)
<daftykins> i've been invited to a small Eurovision watching gathering tomorrow night
<diddledan> ok. somehow victoriaâs secret think Iâve ordered something from them using an email account I rarely touch
<diddledan> and yes, it really is the real victoriaâs secret and not a phish
<diddledan> apparently I bought this: https://www.victoriassecret.com/bras/shop-all-bras/cotton-bra-top-pink?ProductID=288529&CatalogueType=OLS
<daftykins> hmm i don't think much of your taste
<daftykins> have i told you before about all the people in the US that sign up to things with my personal gmail?
<diddledan> I also have a âvictoriaâs secret card"
<daftykins> quite honestly the only way to get rid of one was to do a password reset on the account, email them asking to cancel the order... then sit back and watch
<daftykins> when i got the support guys email saying "here's the time you asked us to cancel your order" with my cancel copied in, i lul'd
<daftykins> Deborah kins suffered my wrath that day
<diddledan> someone signed-up to match.com using my email a while back
<daftykins> i hope they described you well :D
<diddledan> no. they really didnât. he was a weedy child
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> well they need love too, sir
<popey> Evening!
<diddledan> âowdo
<diddledan> oh, and this is a good one from a few days ago: I invited myself to test my ios app, apparently
<diddledan> âFrom: Daniel Llewellynâs Projects (via Crashlytics)â from my email to my email âYouâve been invited to test NoCarrotFitness"
<diddledan> oh no, not quite from my email - from a similar email @gmail to my icloud email
<diddledan> someone using the gmail danieln.llewellyn@gmail.com
<diddledan> my icloud is daniel.llewellyn@icloud.com
<diddledan> (now watch as bots harvest that from the logs archive and spam me sideways)
<daftykins> and now they're harvestable from the public logs ;D
<daftykins> yes XD
<diddledan> great minds...
<daftykins> ...look for dessert
<daftykins> mines a chocolate chip flapjack
<diddledan> mmmm. dessert
<daftykins> you knows it
<daftykins> the moment i saw half price ice cream on the local supermarket deal mailer too, oof
<daftykins> my gut had no chance
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> I hate when they force me to buy bargain glutenous food
<diddledan> itâs unfair to make stuff I love cheap
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi prepares xubuntu 16.04 usb drive to test if hardware on laptop is dying or if it's just the existing distro acting the goat...
<MartijnVdS> I just put Debian (Testing) on my Eee PC. Didn't install X.. it's 32 bit but blazing fast  xD
<aquarius_> anyone feeling knowledgeable about printers? My printer, when printing PDFs, doesn't print any of the text. The Ubuntu test page prints correctly, and if I convert the PDF to an image and print the image, that also prints correctly.
<aquarius_> I have no idea how to even start debugging this...
<zmoylan-pi> i think i had that happen before yonks ago.  it was fonts related...
<aquarius_> That's my suspicion...
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_: which model/brand of printer is it?
<MartijnVdS> (i.e., which protocol does it speak?)
<aquarius_> it's a Kyocera FS-1010, networked; the Printers dialog correctly finds it, and I've tried adding it again as a second printer over LPR, and that has the same problem.
<MartijnVdS> Postscript? PCL?
<aquarius_> Maybe it's a driver problem and I should add it again and use a different driver (i.e., not the one it "recommends")
<aquarius_> No idea whether it's PS or PCL; happy to tell you if you tell me how to find out :)
<zmoylan-pi> and when you print from a text editor and/or word processor, does it work ok?
<aquarius_> good question; let me try that
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_: it's usually in the manual or on the data sheet
<MartijnVdS> http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Kyocera/Kyocera-FS-1010
<aquarius_> according to http://usa.kyoceradocumentsolutions.com/americas/jsp/upload/product/5038/0/FS1010.pdf it does: Supported PDL / Emulations: PRESCRIBE, PCL6 (PCL XL, PCL5e), KPDL2 (PS2), Diablo 630, IBM
<aquarius_> ProPrinter X24, Epson LQ850, Line Printer
<MartijnVdS> KPDL2 = "Postscript II"
<MartijnVdS> so that's some options to try
<aquarius_> OK, text prints fine from a word processor.
<MartijnVdS> is there anything in the CUPS log files?
<aquarius_> MartijnVdS, so, I should add the printer again as a new printer but use the "Kyocera FS-1020 Foomatic/Postscript [en]" driver rather than the "recommended" "Kyocera Mta FS-1010 [en]" one?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_: yeah I'd try that
<zmoylan-pi> shifts the problem a little from printer driver to the pdf viewer... try a different pdf viewer?
<MartijnVdS> had similar problems with my Laserjet once, and switching from PCL to PS (or back) helps in those cases
<aquarius_> zmoylan-pi, I tried printing from xournal as well as evince and that had the same problem
<aquarius_> MartijnVdS, printing to that PS printer has the same problem
<aquarius_> maybe xournal uses the same pdf widget as evince. Let me try flpsed, which definitely doesn't, since it dates from about 1995 :)
 * zmoylan-pi puts on 90s music to get in the spirit...
<aquarius_> AHAHAHA!
<aquarius_> it prints fine from flpsed
<aquarius_> so it's some sort of font config problem with modern programs
<zmoylan-pi> none of this namby pamby handing off print functions to an api.  hard code your own rendering engine... :-)
<aquarius_> importantly, though, I don't care; I'll just print from flpsed :)
<aquarius_> which is, I should note, terrible in every way except that (a) it works and (b) it lets me add text annotations, which other stuff doesn't :)
<aquarius_> this is a bit worrying, though; I'll file a bug.
<zmoylan-pi> isn't that a request to install more bugs? :-)
<aquarius_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1581782 filed, anyway
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1581782 in evince (Ubuntu) "Printed filed are incomplete (missing all text, some images) in evince but not flpsed" [Undecided,New]
<locodir-user> Yo! Ubuntu UK :D How's everyone doing?
<daftykins> wow 2 whole minutes
<daftykins> :D
<Switches> huh?
<zmoylan-pi> the time waited by drive by greetings earlier i think
<Switches> Ahh
<Switches> Impatient people don't understand "IRC Lurkers" lol
<diddledan> itâs eurovision time!
<penguin42> oh god
 * zmoylan-pi watches episodes of ds9 to ignore the eurovision
 * brobostigon is watching BTTF
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: That's pretty desperate
<zmoylan-pi> best sci fi tv show ever... well that and b5, and maybe firefly... ohh and maybe space 1999
<diddledan> b5 is awesome
<penguin42> hmm
<popey> is it eurovision tonight?
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I didn't really watch the later series of ds9, never watched b5 or firefly - but I did like space 1999 (when I was about 10 ?) - but it's an odd one out in that list
<diddledan> really watch b5
<diddledan> it is epic
<Myrtti> so is it just me or is the sound on the Eurovision bad? it's like worse than 2.1
<diddledan> itâs a shame it wasnât recorded on film, so the quality is a bit poor these days
<Myrtti> and yes, Babylon5 rocks
<zmoylan-pi> b5 is incredible despite they cancelled it and then gave it a season back...
<diddledan> Myrtti: the bbc sound mixing has been terrible on everything live the past few years
<zmoylan-pi> space 1999 is epic simply for the design of the eagle space ship.
<Myrtti> diddledan: but surely this should... oh. Graham Norton
<zmoylan-pi> no space ship in any other show looked so... wonderful
<Myrtti> I suppose they could cock it up
<zmoylan-pi> or clone terry wogan...
<diddledan> terry ftw
<Myrtti> well, it's not about who is doing it
<diddledan> does anyone have any wogan DNA?
<Myrtti> it's about that they need to mix it in BBC to get Norton's voice overs in
<penguin42> diddledan: Maybe it's on Radio2 round things?
<Myrtti> so they could indeed be muddling it up, and it's not the SVT end that makes it awful
<zmoylan-pi> firefly is only 14 episodes but it has so much promise of greatness as well as some epic moments that it should be watched by anyone who thinks they like sci fi
<Myrtti> I've tried a few episodes.
<Myrtti> just couldn't get in
<diddledan> I like this one
<zmoylan-pi> it's worth it
<zmoylan-pi> mal and jayne discussing vera... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I wonder if netflix could pick up firefly
<zmoylan-pi> too late, but mal is free now that castle has been cancelled
<penguin42> having seen him first in Castle, watching Serenity was a little odd
<zmoylan-pi> he did manage to get a few firefly references into castle... spacecowboy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q3pdj9p6yI
<zmoylan-pi> and christina hendricks in 2 episodes of firefly is just brilliant
<penguin42> there's also a Castle episode based around the set of a corny scifi
<m0nkey_> The advantage of living in North America. Nobody is broadcasting Eurovision.
<Switches> Well that was an interesting 5 mins.. being told that Nick/Channel wasn't available.. damn virginmedia again I expect (had a few cannot connect to host) aswell >.<
<penguin42> Switches: Not noticed anything from here
<zmoylan-pi> it was in every news item this year that the eurovision is spreading to america so it's only a matter of time
<penguin42> Switches: The only annoying thing I've had lately is gmaps taking ages to load
<Switches> Prob just my end, been having a lot of trouble with the damn "Super Hub" lately, it's def not "Super" imo.
<penguin42> Switches: Oh I have it in modem mode
<Switches> Prob have to ring them again and get a replacement.. Although first have to try and explain to some non-english speaking muppet that I'm not on Windows, only to be told oh we don't support anything else..
<daftykins> m0nkey_: i thought they were this year
<Switches> And yeah been through it a few times already...
<daftykins> or presumably that's US only
<zmoylan-pi> remember shiboleet :-)
<Switches> penguin42: I had it in modem mode for ages until the little router I had died and just never got around to replacing it..
<Switches> Thats one thing I wish the UK was like the US for... I could buy my own DOCSIS 3 modem and use that on virgin...
<daftykins> you can just be economical with the truth
<diddledan> you canât handle the truth
<daftykins> why fight the OS thing when you can just claim you do use it :D
<Myrtti> gah, can't watch this act at all
<diddledan> Myrtti: it wouldnât be bad if the director had not taken a dose of extacy just before they went on-stage
<diddledan> weird camera-work combined with shonky rapid cuts
<zmoylan-pi> bring back 'my lovely horse' but without the sax solo... of course... :-P
<daftykins> sounds like the last 10 years of cinema ;)
<penguin42> Switches: Well as for the modem, as long as it spits packets out and I don't let it do anything else I'm happy
<Switches> penguin42: lol about the only thing it can do :D
<penguin42> Switches: All I ask of a modem
<daftykins> if i still lived in England i'd want a basic modem only from VM too, not these horrible attempts at routers they push out
<zmoylan-pi> last few i got in argos... worked fine so far...
<penguin42> daftykins: Well they have hyper advanced features - but you can just flip it into modem mode
<daftykins> yeah, i understand that... but just getting a basic one would be nice
<daftykins> i last had a VM service when it was 10Mb max with that nice and simple little blue modem
<penguin42> shrug, doesn't cost me anything, as long as it works OK in modem mode I don't mind
<daftykins> never liked the enforced bedtime the VM service always made when the device would desync around the early hours though :D
<daftykins> i'd lose connection, pop down to the lounge and see the sync light flashing and know it was time to go to bed, no more internets that day
<zmoylan-pi> this is where you have a cdrom drive connected to a rasp pi beside it and use the eject mechanism to reboot the router on command... :-)
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> nah none of that was necessary, it was the modem desyncing because the service was down... it'd come back on its' own
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't think I've seen that
<daftykins> was quite a time ago - and in a student area
<m0nkey_> What's the bet that UK gets zero this year?
<m0nkey_> Heh, so everybody is voting for their neighbours as usual.
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they haven't been invaded by their neighbours recently... as usual
<m0nkey_> Ireland
<m0nkey_> Malta?
<m0nkey_> huh
<m0nkey_> ok. Belgium
<m0nkey_> Malta.. well, they usually vote for the UK, but guessing this year they wont be :)
<m0nkey_> ha!
<m0nkey_> called it
<m0nkey_> Spain, Portugal or Belgium.
<Switches> You talking about the Eurovision contest?
<m0nkey_> yes
<Switches> Ahh thought so, UK never gets anywhere in that
<m0nkey_> Well, I pretty much called Malta giving 12 points to UK.
<m0nkey_> So what happens if Australia win?
<m0nkey_> Moldavia, 12 goes to Ukraine.
<Switches> ... since when has Australia been in the eurovision.. and wth are they doing in it anyways
<m0nkey_> Called it
<m0nkey_> Heh, yeah that'll be fun. The only non EU country to enter and win.
<m0nkey_> Cyprus, Spain.
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit weird but the eurovision is really a tv network sharing thing and they kinda let anyone in
<m0nkey_> Got that wrong
<Switches> Wonder how long it will take someone to use that as a reason to leave the EU lol
<m0nkey_> UK get to the final regardless.
<m0nkey_> It's basically paid for
<zmoylan-pi> i can see the film reamke now... passport to birmingham... :-)
<m0nkey_> Heh, the Aussies are Chinese.
<m0nkey_> Heh, the presenters. Such awkwardness. It's funny.
<m0nkey_> lol, that's awesome. An Aussie accent from that face.
<m0nkey_> lol.. what did Germany do to piss of the EU?
<m0nkey_> Oh yeah, they tried to bail out the Greek banks.
<Switches> yep
<m0nkey_> Heh, 1 point.
<Switches> With everyone elses money...
<m0nkey_> Yeah
<Switches> Hmm just saw someone saying about crash reports in 16.04... have they left apport on for the stable releases again?
<m0nkey_> Crap
<m0nkey_> I wanted Australia to win.
<Switches> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-15
<mappps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> [1st day off in 14 days. glad to see t'internets still exists ;-) ]
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> well sunday is a day of rest so strap on the shinguards and head out to gardening/diy centre... :-))
<SuperEngineer> ...currently counting down to live F1
<zmoylan-pi> rooting for particular driver or team?
 * zmoylan-pi imagines SuperEngineer in ferarri pjamas, wrapped in ferarri duvet waving ferarri flag in front of gogglebox... :-P
 * SuperEngineer imagines SuperEngineer going to British F1 at Silvertone
<SuperEngineer> ...& smiles... coz SuperEngineer is! [courtesy of wonderful birthday gift from daughter & sister]
<SuperEngineer> vaaa....roooooooooooommmmm
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh cool
<SuperEngineer> gratefully agreed
<zmoylan-pi> bring ear protection...
<SuperEngineer> ...& beer
<SuperEngineer> [if they allow "imported"
<penguin42> careful otherwise SuperEngineer will get stuck in a pit lane wondering how to get to working on F1 cars
<zmoylan-pi> aren't they stuck on ancient laptops as it runs propietary hardware? that's a job for me :-D
<SuperEngineer> "honest guv, I can fix that tyre. Honest I can"  :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i still know my way around windows 3.1...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/227828-the-mclaren-f1-supercar-can-only-be-serviced-with-this-ancient-compaq-laptop
<zmoylan-pi> ah the mclaren f1... my bad... sorry.
<SuperEngineer> they may be stuck on something in old race control, but there is now a new main race control [with old one acting as fallback - they both communicate ok with each other but I have no idea what software either is running [suspect new one may be different to old]
<SuperEngineer> they may be stuck on something in old race control, but there is now a new main race control [with old one acting as fallback - they both communicate ok with each other but I have no idea what software either is running [suspect new one may be different to old]
<SuperEngineer> [whoops! double post. my a po lo gies
<SuperEngineer> hmm.. I suspect quite a few of the race teams may by now have tried &/or are into 2proper" software [depends on who makes their custom programmes I suspect]
<zmoylan-pi> was it renault team that switched to linux to save a *LOT* of money
<penguin42> it's odd they need that specific laptop; I'd have thought they might have had a custom PCMCIA card or the like
<penguin42> so I could see them needing an oldish laptop with PCMCIA
<SuperEngineer> btw F1 coverage now on Ch4 & about to go live, F1 live timing now free on formula1.com [without subscription]
 * penguin42 admits to finding F1 boring except for the crashes
<zmoylan-pi> mid 90s had some very weird laptops made as engineers stuffed some weird stuff in... ::glares at ibm and 'software' modems::
 * SuperEngineer suspects you are not alone penguin42 
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Go and oil the track or something
<SuperEngineer> I#ll see if I can get permission for a "track walk" [a.k.a an oiling]  ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...but I suspect they might guess when I tell them, "I'm doing something 'special' for penguin42
<zmoylan-pi> and the blindfold? :-P
<SuperEngineer> ...and them ask for some sawdust/cement powder mix to clear it up!
<isse> Hi guys
<isse> Are you aware of any issue with skype on ubuntu ?
<SuperEngineer> issues like "not supported"?
<zmoylan-pi> isn't it abandonware on linux now?
<isse> Not quite
<SuperEngineer> [if one uses U-MATE one can install directly from software & try that?
<isse> it's like it installs and runs fine, except my messages don't get delivered
<isse> on every message i send, a triangle appears next to it saying Not delivered yet.
<SuperEngineer> isse: suggest a quick ask on #ubuntu-mate
<isse> Will do. Thanks for the info ;)
<SuperEngineer> F1 now live - preamble at present
 * penguin42 thinks there are one or two things that skype on linux can't do; in particular group video chats
 * SuperEngineer thinks there are many things that skype on linux can no longer do
<SuperEngineer> [...& -who- owns Skype?]
<zmoylan-pi> happy huggy we love linux ms
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> F1 live race started - bfn
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<Switches> heya knightwise
<knightwise> hey Switches
<knightwise> how goes you
<Switches> Not to bad mate, you?
<knightwise> doin ok,
<knightwise> writing up an IT plan for one of my customers, need to migrate their arse to office365
<Switches> ouch, working on a Sunday..
<knightwise> I'm an entrepreneur so ..
<Switches> No days off for you then
<knightwise> Not really
<knightwise> But it doesnt always feel like work .. i like what I do so , thats a good thing.
<Switches> Best part of any job, if it doesn't feel like work it's always a good thing
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> I get to give talks, play solution architect, organise IT services .. its nice :)
<Switches> :)
<Switches> Fun part's giving talks and teaching, so rewarding
<knightwise>  and I an always sprinkle a litlle bit of knightwise.com philosophy into my designs :)
<knightwise> yeah ) Giving talks is awesome. I love being on stage
<Switches> Ohh cool site
<Switches> Odd to find any "cross platform" sites to do with Linux and Windows, mostly to many evangelists about lol
<knightwise> Which site are you referring to ?
<Switches> Your site
<knightwise> ah :) Lol
<knightwise> thanx :) been at it for a couple of years now
<Switches> looks good, well layed out and easy enough to read (plus no big banner adverts taking the page up)
<knightwise> nope :) never did advertising. always payed for everything out of my own pocket. Being independant is kinda important to me
<knightwise> The website was completely re-done by one of our listeners
<Switches> Best way to be for some projects
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> so , working on anything geeky ?
<Switches> Na not really, mostly just reading at the mo
<knightwise> what's on your nightstand (readingwise)
<Switches> hmm seems you're the same age as me.. also born in the same month.. rofl
<Switches> Well mainly wiring diagrams for cars >.>, but like to read some tech stuff aswell
<knightwise> Switches: you a scorpio too ? :)$
<knightwise> I just finished Chernobyl 1:23:58
<Switches> na Sagittarian
<knightwise> very comprehensive book about the Chernobyl disaster.  Written by a geek like us, edited by the guys on reddit  Very accessible entertaining book.
<knightwise> aah :) Late november then:)
<Switches> Yep
 * penguin42 is reading the Universal History of Numbers by Georges Ifrah - it kind of starts at marks on clay - or before
<Switches> Hmm never got much into that kinda book, more sci-fi stuff for me like "The Complete Robot"
<knightwise> penguin42: cool
<knightwise> Switches: I just finished 'ready player one'
<knightwise> and "a thousand suns" (alternative history novel where the nazi's build a nuke)
<knightwise> And i love my scifi too :)(pats large collection of star trek novels)
<Switches> Haven't read that any good?
<knightwise> A thousand suns is not bad. it kinda reads like an action movie .. so its a light read.
<knightwise> Ready player one is not bad. Lots of geek-references both you and I will get ... but the story is a liiiitle flimsy
<knightwise> but still entertaining.
<Switches> Hmm have to look that one up
<knightwise> you read on paper or on an ebook
<Switches> Both tbh
 * knightwise has been reading digitally for over 10 years now 
<Switches> I have a couple of books dotted around and use my tablet (when my daughter hasn't pinched it)
<knightwise> started on my Handspring Visor
<penguin42> knightwise: Ooh that was a bit small
<Switches> Now thats some classic "tech" lol
<knightwise> penguin42: I read the entire 2001 books from Arthur C clarcke on that one .. while out shopping with my girlfriend.
<penguin42> knightwise: How did that relationship go?
<knightwise> I have been reading english books for the longest time (im belgian) and these are very hard to come by around here
<knightwise> so i started downloading books from the net and needed something to read them on :)
<Switches> lol best way
<knightwise> that relationship went fine :) She's been my wife for the last 10 years
<penguin42> oh well
<knightwise> And I still take my kindle with me when we are out shopping :)
<Switches> Last handheld I remember having was a ipaq from just after release >.> that was erm.. 15 years ago probably lol
<knightwise> Switches: was that THAT long ago  ?
<knightwise> yep .. you are probably right.
<knightwise> damn !
<Switches> yeah... makes us old mate :p
<knightwise> hahaha :) it does
<knightwise> penguin42: you a paper-sniffer ?
<knightwise> Switches: sometimes I miss those days. Smartphones are just noisy distracting little fuckers
<Switches> most the time they are... they have a tendency to go off when you find something interesting lol#
<knightwise> I try to keep the number of notifications to an absolute minimum
<Switches> Although saying that most people have learnt not to ring me as my battery is normally dead xD
<Switches> Always end up with google/yahoo/aim/icq messages "Wtf dude your phone is off again"
<knightwise> Lol
<knightwise> I use telegram for my closest friends ..
<knightwise> everybody else can go sit on facebook messenger
<Switches> rofl
<knightwise> and my clients can use whatsapp
<knightwise> So, based on the notification I receive I can decide wether to ignore it :)
<Switches> tbh there are very few people who contact me nowadays (thank god) was a lot worse when I was actually working within IT
<Switches> Being the only Linux/UNIX buy also didn't help matters much lol
<Switches> guy*
<knightwise>  Hahah :) I know the feeling
<knightwise> back when I was in tech support and we had a rainy saturday afternoon .. my phone would not stop ringing
<Switches> Weird how many people we tend to find our age that only ever did MCSE and Windows cert...
<knightwise> True.
<Switches> Ahh now thats some memories lol
<knightwise> I refused to get mine
<Switches> Used to just bury my head in paperwork and hope someone else got it
 * knightwise thinks of Moz in the it crowd
<Switches> I actually ended up doing my MCSE and MCNA but they also gave me the chance to get a few other certs.. not that they do me much good nowadays...
<knightwise> I dont value "company specific/brand specific certs very highly"
<Switches> Neither do I tbh, even back then. But it was one of them "either do it or lose your job" deals lol
 * knightwise knows the feeling
<knightwise> hmm.. Dell xps13 is behaving quite well with 16.04
<knightwise> battery life is very good indeed
<Switches> I find 16.04 pretty stable tbh, although from what I been reading a lot are getting crash reports thrown in their faces.. wondering if they forgot to switch apport off in the release builds
<knightwise> I gotta say .. i switched it off
<knightwise> one thing i like is the snap packages
<knightwise> feels nice to install / uninstall apps without having to worry about dependencies and stuff
<Switches> Yeah snap is a great idea
<Switches> I always switch apport off as far as reporting goes.. to many programs miss a tick and it suddenly decides its crashed >.<
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> and I don't mind a crash and sending it to canonical .. but just dont bug me with it every single time
<Switches> I hate it, its like "I'm using the damn program it hasn't crashed!" but apport is still popping up lol
<knightwise> I call it the 'i'll bug you to submit a bug' app
<Switches> lol
<Switches> About fits it yeah
<Switches> The thing is it is actually meant to be on for the dev builds but not for the releases afaik, think someone just forgots to change the flag in a config for ubiqity
<knightwise> Switches: it does give first time users a bad impression
<Switches> knightwise: Yeah just a bit
<Switches> Think it puts a lot of personally.. they think its like a BSOD
<Switches> off*
<knightwise> Yep
<knightwise> that is waht it feels like
<Switches> especially when the first thing after the initial boot is it popping up lol
<penguin42> What's the crash it's actually reporting? Is it a kernel oops?
<Switches> na nothing that serious tbh
<penguin42> how do you know?
<Switches> most the time its GDM or LightDM or some crap that just stops suddenly
<knightwise> Well.. he's still talking to us ... so i think the system is still up
<penguin42> you can still get oops/warns without it killing the machine
<Switches> Yeah you can, but its nothing kernel wise, I've checked most the ones I get out. It normally happens when one program hands off to another then quits. Apport sees it as a crash
<penguin42> hmm that's weird, apport should only see user space crashes or kernel oopses - I don't think it's got that much more smarts for handoffs
<MartijnVdS> I think it may have some python "uncaught exception" hooks
<penguin42> yeh
<Switches> Well tbh It's probably a mix of stuff, I'd worry more if it was a AppArmor report
<Switches> But it shouldn't be on for release versions anyway. The process still runs in the background just the report shouldn't be enabled by default
<penguin42> Switches: Not sure; in the end a few million users find a lot more weird corner cases than your testers
<Switches> It's an easy fix, just "sudo <text editor of choice> /etc/default/apport and change the 1 to a 0
<Switches> Yeah but throwing that at a new user they always take it something far more serious than it is
<Switches> penguin42: If us testers do our job right we should be able to find most the problems well before they make a release :p
<knightwise> should be the first post in every 'what to do after installing ..." post
<Switches> rofl yeah
<Switches> It's weird cause even the apport page on Ubuntu still says it should be turnt off for releases I think
<Switches> Apport is really the linux version of the old Dr Watson Windows program.. Irritating as hell when it decides something is wrong
<Switches> Ohhh LLVM are changing their release schedule to help downstream.. theres a first
<knightwise> Darn , forgot to download the latest fcm
<Switches> fcm?
<knightwise> FullCircle Magazine
<Switches> ahh
<knightwise> Ronny does a great job there
<penguin42> Switches: Oh not really, there's so many different motherboards/ devices/ combinations of what program people actually use
<Switches> knightwise: I thought you were on about that old subversion plugin thing for a while there...
<knightwise> on the podcast ?
<Switches> penguin42: That's true, but even more reason to leave the reporting off for releases. Apport is a debug tool (imo) not something adverage joe user should see when finishing up the nice fresh install of Ubuntu. Let AppArmor and Whoopsie deal with that.
<Switches> knightwise: When you were saying about downloading the latest "fcm" there was an old subversion plugin for admins called fcm. tbh can't even remember what it was for..
<knightwise> Ah there is a script i found somewhere that does it
<Switches> Ahh
<knightwise> http://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2013/05/script-to-download-all-issues-of-full.html
<Switches> That's a cool little script
<knightwise> yep.
<knightwise> And i pull the downloaded versions into calibre straight away to keep track
<knightwise> that way I can shoot them to my kindle and my ipad
<Switches> Never really bothered reading those, but then I switch between the distros a lot depending on where I am and what system I'm using lol
<Switches> Listen to the ubuntu podcast and a lot of the ubuntu on air stuff, other than that its LAS and reading Phoronix lol
<knightwise> I know the ubuntu podcast , but .. What is ubuntu on air ?
<knightwise> i listen to LAS too (read : i skip the horrible commmercials)
<Switches> It's live dev talks ubuntu do, some of them are pretty interesting
 * knightwise is no dev.
<knightwise> i work with dev guys but i'm a little bit out of my league there
<Switches> Think last one i watched properly was erm.. one with mhall and popey talking about the ubuntu touch stuff
<knightwise> hmm.. i have a ubuntu phone
<knightwise> kinda like it but .. cant rely on it for business use i'm afraid
<Switches> Well its more a "general" dev talk really, not very much coding stuff or that. Plus they answer a few questions towards the end normally
<knightwise> cool
<Switches> popey is the one talking about the OTA updates to ubuntu phone most the time, I don't have an ubuntu phone (yet) but still interesting to listen to
<Switches> Is it not that reliable yet knightwise ?
<knightwise> Switches: been thinking of getting the tablet .. but i'm afraid its not quite "done" yet
<knightwise> I think i had some issues with battery life
<Switches> Well it's still early for it I guess, they say it's more "dev" and "geek" focused. It does seem to be coming along great though
<knightwise> its still very dev focuesed indeed
<knightwise> Gotta dash , going home (at the coffee shop for the moment) brb
<Switches> ok mate, take it steady
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... old [*very* old] samsung "smart" phone [running Android 2.3.6] no longer allows downloads of apps, won't update, battery won't go above 99%... could it be time to get a replacement I wonder?  :-)
<SuperEngineer> [YES]
 * zmoylan-pi takes SuperEngineer's phone out behind the carphonewarehouse and whacks it with my nokia... :-P
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...but the phone has a built in in FM chip... can't find that on others :-(
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry, my nokia won't be harmed in the incident
<daftykins> that thing'd have so many security issues it's unreal
<zmoylan-pi> well it is a samsung so it was delivered with security issues :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i thought most android devices still had fm radio?
<daftykins> pass
<zmoylan-pi> cheap huawei i got in tesco does.  positively eats the battery so not very practical
<daftykins> never used it on a phone
<daftykins> radio's going the way of the dodo!
<zmoylan-pi> i love me fm radio.  in usa the radio is terrible but in ireland it's excellent
<SuperEngineer> they have streaming apps but not [afaik] a built in FM reciever chip
<zmoylan-pi> radio will be around a long time yet.  too useful
<daftykins> can't see it being useful portably though
<SuperEngineer> [please tell me I'm wrong - please]
<zmoylan-pi> and dab while nice is just not portable
<zmoylan-pi> what phones are you looking at then?
<SuperEngineer> I'm looking at my old phone with on board FM chip and radio app ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...but that is not what I need to be looking at...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_j5-7184.php has a radio
<SuperEngineer> Want a Nexus, can't [don't want to] afford a Nexus. Legal, decent, honest & useful are my criteria
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s5_neo-6506.php has a a radio 2/2
<daftykins> what do you mean, the Nexus 5X is cheap...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s7_edge-7945.php no radio 2/3
 * daftykins would not buy samsung
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: I was just typing if a question re Galaxy S5.. that was my firt option!
<SuperEngineer> so if a Galaxy S5x - what should the "x" be? [for on board radio, not rubbish specs, blah, blah...]?  Answers on a postcard [or here will do ;-)  ]
<daftykins> wat
<zmoylan-pi>  but s5 doesn't have radio.  well that's a bit silly having such a random element to an important feature... http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s5-6033.php
<SuperEngineer> keep hearing [on podcats] about the OnePlus One... but no radio :-(
 * zmoylan-pi would be with daftykins though in avoiding samsung... have had 2 devices and both were... buggy
<zmoylan-pi> i did see a little old dear on the bus a few weeks back with a huge smartphone and had her headphone plugged into handheld transistor radio that was same size as the phone :-)
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> same model sony radio walkman that i have.  mine is 30 years old but i have seen them still for sale
<SuperEngineer> *want* radio - it kept me sane during a recent unexpected hospital "extended stay" ffollowing an op that went slightly iffy
<daftykins> :S
 * zmoylan-pi nods.  when i went into hospital in 2008 i had 1gb of music in very compressed files and fm radio on nokia n70.  a real life saver
<SuperEngineer> ...but want *good* phone thatr won't be outdated next year
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i hope you didn't come out with someones baby
<daftykins> ah well you're out of luck there, they all suck and are designed to implode now
<zmoylan-pi> congratulations... it's a nokia..,
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: s'okay... I found the mother & returned the babs
 * SuperEngineer listens to Woodstock soundtrack & thinks... "congratulations... it's a moonbeam"
<SuperEngineer> whoop[s... age showing... quick - hide age related incriminations!!!!
<daftykins> >:)
<zmoylan-pi> pffft, some music on my phone was recorded in 1930s... :-)
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: hope you didn't record them yourself! if so... well done grandpa
 * zmoylan-pi records SuperEngineer's comments on wax cylinder for later revenge purposes... :-P
<SuperEngineer> [thinks of Ubuntu podcast theme] - & builds bunker to hide from zmoylan-pi's revenge
<SuperEngineer> oh, my, gawd!... Dear BBC newsfeed headlines: re "A 30-year-old man is shot in the ankles in Londonderry, he is taken to hospital for treatment."   We're not idiots!  Where else did you think we'd assume he was taken after a gunshoy injurt? BHS????
<SuperEngineer> *guinshot
<SuperEngineer> hash-tag testes
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I guess they've got to do something with BHS
<zmoylan-pi> nah, my favourite was a drug dealer in dublin in 90s who was shot in face with a shotgun after vigialantes got him.  his condition was described as 'comfortablee' in hospital.  i don't there are enough drugs for anyone to be 'comfortable' after that...
<SuperEngineer> +1
<diddledan> if yaâll got netflix. watch iZombie
<diddledan> itâs hilarious
<diddledan> just watching ep2
<daftykins> i dunno, sounds a lot like Apple products and zombie rolled into one... that's two bad things
<zmoylan-pi> or very very expensive zombies...
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side one whack and they shatter into a 1000 pieces...
<SuperEngineer> but Apple & zombies have a connection [mwa ha harrr]
<SuperEngineer> bitey bitey.. your trapped in their world
<SuperEngineer> @*you're
 * zmoylan-pi is reminded of the great episode of malcolm in the middle were dewie is trying to trick reese into there are aliens invading when malcolm tells him he's overthinking it and simply shouts 'reese! zombie!' for him to appear with bat wearing a helmet...
<SuperEngineer> why was the bat wearing a helmet?
<zmoylan-pi> because it was deaf of course
<daftykins> but they all are!
<zmoylan-pi> no no they're blind...
<DJones> Was it riding a motorbike?
<zmoylan-pi> we don't allow the blind to ride motorbikes
<SuperEngineer> :Dso it was playing american football?
<SuperEngineer> *so
<diddledan> googley IO this week IIRC
<diddledan> wednesday by the looks
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> Tuesday is more exciting! nvidia GTX1080 review embargo lifts ;)
<diddledan> youâve had one to review? :-p
<daftykins> hah if only, i bought Hitman earlier and have enjoyed seeing 14fps on low
<daftykins> i'm waiting to pick a new card
<daftykins> huzzah got a refund from amazon... cheeky swines list their 'digital purchases' as all inclusive of VAT, but on going to the checkout, the Â£40 game remained Â£40
<daftykins> i'm outside the EU so don't pay that... just got Â£8 back \o/
<Switches> They tryed to charge you vat outside the uk?
<daftykins> lots of places do
<daftykins> we're second class citizens down here in the Channel Islands
<Switches> lol
<Switches> That's pretty messed up
<daftykins> Google and MS won't even sell to us...
<Switches> wtf
<Switches> They got some rule against the Channel Islands?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> they geoip blocked a lot of content on the Google play store to us, too
<Switches> >.<
<daftykins> worked fine to begin with, then someone got in touch to say we want VAT deducted pricing
<daftykins> then they locked us out
<Switches> Now thats messed up
<Switches> You would think google and ms would be able to that..
<daftykins> oh i'm sure they can, we just don't matter enough
<daftykins> oh Adobe are the other one, too
<daftykins> phone up sales, "VAT ID or we can't do it"
<Switches> Oh how nice of them...
<daftykins> yep so they take the tax and bank it
<Switches> And this from companies who just love to skip paying tax bills.. what a surprise
<daftykins> odd coincidence eh?
<daftykins> it's like they don't want to do the proper UK gov paperwork or something
<Switches> oh yeah..
<Switches> Man that would get up my nose..
<Switches> Listening to Knightwise.. didn't know about his podcast, but rarely I search for thing's outside Linux Land (even though his is crossplatform)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<directhex> xenial is totally broken and i can't find anyone else talking about it :|
<foobarry> define broken
<foobarry> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions are supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04). Ubuntu !flavors may have different support durations, check their release notes for information.
<directhex> foobarry: libsecret slash gnome-keyring doesn't work at all, as of about a week ago. so apps which integrate with it take ages to start up, and all saved credentials are inaccessible
<davmor2> directhex: is there a bug for it
<directhex> davmor2: not that i can find!
<davmor2> then no one will be working on it ;)
<davmor2> directhex: can you give me examples and I'll have a play for you see if I can reproduce it
<directhex> can someone else sanity-check? install libsecret-tools and try running `secret-tool search pony pony`
<diplo> I've got to say I haven't had any issues but have now updated to zesty
<diplo> Can try on Zesty to also see if it's an issue ?
<ali1234> directhex: produces no output for me on 16.04
<directhex> ali1234: immediately?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but my computer is really fast so that might not mean much :)
<directhex> ok, that's the correct behaviour
<directhex> but it's broken for me on my laptop *and* desktop, including after a reformat
<davmor2> directhex: so could be something local to you, do you have any ppa's installed at all?
<ali1234> my install is really old
<ali1234> also i haven't reboot it for like a month so might not be using fully up to date libs
<directhex> ehm... flatpak ppa, mono/chrome/slack repos
<ali1234> i have the chrome ppa but not the others
<ali1234> can you strace it or something to see why it hangs?
<davmor2> directhex: did you install any flat packs as I understand it that can pull in the full gnome stack and might be causing issues unless they fixed that
<directhex> davmor2: i've tried uninstalling flatpak, which hasn't changed anything
<directhex> ali1234: it's a timeout on dbus activation of org.freedesktop.secrets
<davmor2> directhex: no it won't the install it pulls in is separate to the package :)
<directhex> davmor2: it's a clean reinstalled laptop, i hadn't gotten around to installing any flatpak apps.
<davmor2> directhex: then that might be fine then let me fire it up and have a look for you
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Iris Day! ð  ð·
 * JamesTait wonders if anyone will notice the continuation of the weekend's railway theme.
<directhex> don't talk to me about bloody railways, it took me 6 hours to get to london & back to vote
<zmoylan-pi> used the railway on saturday and sunday from dublin... it was jammers both days which is odd for a weekend...
<diplo> directhex: Going to sign up to postal vote next time then ?
<directhex> mmm, i might be in the US next time, and it's rather more convenient to vote in boston than london
<zmoylan-pi> how long would the postal vote to get to uk?
<zmoylan-pi> just you hear stories about american postal system been slow...
<JamesTait> Don't worry, directhex, HS2 will be here soon and will solve all your troubles. ð
<zmoylan-pi> hs2 will expand the commuter belt how far? :-)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, you'll alert monday to your presence!!
<MooDoo> already bit me in the ass
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't mean it won't come back to try and finish the job...
<MooDoo> think i'll be fine :)
<directhex> HS2 doesn't run from banbury to wembley
 * zmoylan-pi starts betting pool... hit by asteroid/eaten by sharks/attacked by badgers... :-P
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
<davmor2> directhex: paste.ubuntu.com/24536065
<davmor2> no issues here
<directhex> so....... wtf?
<directhex> how many gnome-keyring-daemon instances do you have running?
<davmor2> directhex: 1
<directhex> hm
<directhex> i just killed 2 zombie instances, and now secret-tool runs
<directhex> but *why*?
<davmor2> maybe it was linked to a zombie one initially
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: A bit of controversy about HS2 around here, the viaduct is going to be HEE-OOJ.
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure if genuine concern or just a bunch of entitle NIMBYs
<TwistedLucidity> *entitled
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure they all have degrees in architecture...
<foobarry> how do i disable intel AMT via the ctrl-p menu?
<TwistedLucidity> A hammer
<TwistedLucidity> Usually it's hidden the BIOS/UEFI gubbines you get at boot
<TwistedLucidity> What's a "Ctrl-P" menu?
<TwistedLucidity> What I wonder is, how will I install the firmware update to my T430 without needing Windows.
<zmoylan-pi> wrap cpu in tin foil, put in microwave on high for 2 minutes.  put smoking mess in barrel of wet concrete. drop over side of boat...
<foobarry> ctrl-p gets you into the INTEL(R) AMT CONFIGURATION menu
<foobarry> no clear ooption to disable
<foobarry> just "Manageability feature selection" enable/disable
<zmoylan-pi> who knew having a backdoor into something would turn out to be a bad thing?!
<foobarry> i've been worried about it for years
<foobarry> i like ipmi on servers
<foobarry> i don't like MAT onlaptops that even respond on the main IP address when they are asleep
<foobarry> i think i have now disabled it
<diddledan> ok folks, foobarry just set the challenge. first person to hack them wins the internet! :-p
<diddledan> note: I do not condone hacking. you must comply with the laws of your jurisdiction.
<zmoylan-pi> and this time no one hacks sony! \o/
<foobarry> hack who?
<foobarry> me?
<foobarry> the reg article shows that the AMT have 1) passsword bypass 2) priv escalation vuln.
<foobarry> 3) pwntown
<SuperMatt> that's a horrid combination of bugs
<diddledan> well the bugs can be paraphrased as 1) give everyone access. 2) make everyone admin. hmm, that sounds like Win9x era computing
<diddledan> and WinXP
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yes, bypass the password by sending nothing
<TwistedLucidity> I can't check now, but I really did think it was BIOS/UEFI setting to turn it on/off.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: When does one do ctrl-p? During boot?
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: yes
<foobarry> hammer it as soon as you start boot
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: OK, I'll give that a go.
<foobarry> the bios setting only hides the ctrl-p option!
<diddledan> well that's a new one: IRCCloud system message: We're migrating your user account to a different server to balance the system. Your account will be offline briefly before reconnecting automatically. We apologise for the disruption.
<diddledan> it didn't reconnect automatically
<diddledan> why are they not using live migration?!
<diddledan> seriously, each customer should be a separate container on their farm which will allow the system to automatically rebalance itself without interruption or manual intervention
 * brobostigon is back from work.
<foobarry> listening to UUPC . i have a 12.04 machine for special cases because it has a working java + browser setup that works for various IBM/Dell servers
<diddledan> I somewhat concerned that the top secret us spaceship requires hazmat teams to recover it: https://assets.cdn.spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/08225604/170507-O-F3227-001-678x438.jpg
<diddledan> from here: https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/05/08/photos-sundays-return-of-x-37b-after-718-days-in-space/
<zmoylan-pi> probably uses toxic fuel...
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember one of the best fuels is carcinogenic
<diddledan> I think it's more likely that it wasn't in orbit of earth the past 700 days but actually went to visit some aliens elsewhere in the solarsystem
<diddledan> they've obviously placed some really powerful weapons or something that is hazardous
<diddledan> it looks like they have a geiger counter
<diddledan> probably isn't a standard counter for normal radiation but detecting exotic matter
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-09
<m0nkey_> This Goose is cooked https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/RmBJD0qH/goose_is_cooked.gif
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Lost Sock Memorial Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> step 1) throw out all socks 2) replace with 20 pairs all the same 3) there is no step 3
<JamesTait> Step 3) wonder why you only have 19 pairs of socks and one odd one.
<zmoylan-pi> then you hit the intruder alert button...
<JamesTait> Does that summon the sock police?
<zmoylan-pi> no that would be the summon sock police button... 1 up, 2 along beside the summon tomato ketchup button
<JamesTait> "Summon tomato ketchup button", a.k.a. "Child".
<JamesTait> Ketchup on everything.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJxBr3LHCc
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> how is everyone ?
<davmor2> meh
<zmoylan-pi> warm dry sunny weather... it's unnatural... make it stop...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: come to Wolverhampton cold grey and heartless
<zmoylan-pi> i mean it hasn't rained in days... they'll be declaring a drought soon...
<diddledan> Winsider Preview has just bit my bum :-p
<diddledan> nvidia drivers installed via Windows Update killed display
<diddledan> and now I'm trying to figure-out why hyper-v has died
<diddledan> maybe I should ignore hyper-v death and revert to using virtualbox
<davmor2> diddledan: or just stick to Linux ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> nah os/2 is the future!! :-)
 * zmoylan-pi adds tick to the note of how many times i have recommended oses to people and sees os/2 ahead of windows... :-P
<m0nkey_> OS/2 Warp 4 was awesome.
<zmoylan-pi> been able to format a floppy and not have system grind to a halt...
<m0nkey_> But if you want to strike OS gold, look up TempleOS.
<zmoylan-pi> the one recommended to me today was endless os
<m0nkey_> The sole dev has a mental disorder and swears a lot in his videos. God speaks to him through the OS development.
<zmoylan-pi> the swearing i can handle. the god speaking to them is a smidge more worrying for the creater of an os you're trusting your data with
<diddledan> apparently the Holy resolution is 640x480
<diddledan> God insisted on it
<zmoylan-pi> with 2 or 4 colour support?
<m0nkey_> 16 colours
<zmoylan-pi> but that would reduce the amount of video ram available for your ram disk!!
<m0nkey_> Oh and there is no mouse support.
<zmoylan-pi> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> and there was much rejoicing
<m0nkey_> Devil makes works for idle hands and such.
<diddledan> 2 day turnaround by MS on fixing an RCE bug: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39856391
<m0nkey_> Props to MS for that!
<diddledan> aye, and those engineers who worked through the weekend deserve a cold beer and a rest!
<diddledan> amazing response IMO
<arsen> pretty standard for any small to medium sized business - but if its M$ they get praise? :p
<m0nkey_> Are you 14? Who referrers to Microsoft as M$ anymore?
<arsen> did they get better? :D
<m0nkey_> I praise any software dev that turns round a fix for a critical vulnerability in just a few hours.
<diddledan> ditto: they've gone through not knowing the bug exists -> trying to understand how the exploit works -> finding the right code path -> figuring out what's wrong with that code -> applying a potential fix -> compiling -> potentially getting a broken build -> potentially not having fixed the problem -> testing that the fix doesn't cause problems to other stuff
<diddledan> -> packaging for release ..
<diddledan> ALL IN 48 hours
<arsen> sorry, how much money does microsoft have, and how big is their dev team (spanning multiple timezones), and what do they do for a living?
<arsen> i'd argue the better way to describe what they've done is 'surprise' - rather than pat them on the back. most other decent tech firms would expect that kind of turnaround as a minium, nevermind one that sells end-user software.
<arsen> largely because they're typcally shit at that kind of thing :p
<m0nkey_> Surprisingly, yes. I feel like they have gotten better. They're not perfect. I trust Microsoft more than I do Google.
<diddledan> bashing Microsoft is childish.
<diddledan> sure, call them out when they do something wrong, but don't moan that they get praise for doing something right
<arsen> don't think i complained, just said what they've done should be the norm.
<arsen> it is for the rest of us.
<m0nkey_> Take your average Linux distribution. A critical bug is fixed, but it still takes a day or two for that to come downstream.
<m0nkey_> Unless you compile yourself from sources.
<m0nkey_> Same is true for BSD.
<m0nkey_> Heck, it could be two month for the FreeNAS devs to push out a security update. (Known from experience reporting an OpenSSL vulnerability)
<m0nkey_> Open source should be able to move faster, but it doesn't.
<arsen> different set of challenges eh.
<m0nkey_> So as I said. I praise anyone who can turn around in 48 hours.
<DJones> \o/ Found the charger/transfer cable for my mp3 player
<DJones> Audiobook heaven here I come :)
<diddledan> http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/stephen-fry-blasphemy-probe-dropped-after-garda-fail-to-find-substantial-number-of-outraged-people-35692915.html
<DJones> diddledan: As a somebody who goes to church every week, as a christian, as part of the church PCC, that charge was ridiculous, freedom of speech does come into it (but can be limited in certain circumstances), but I can't understand how anybody would be offended by what he's said
<DJones> Maybe I'm in the minority, but I respect anybody's choice of point of view, I might not agree with it, but I won't complain if its different to mine
<diddledan> DJones: Je Suis Charlie :-)
<diddledan> if non-<insert religion here> people aren't allowed to call out plot holes in <insert religion here> teachings then how does <insert religion here> ever get a chance to adapt to modernity?! As a christian I welcome people challenging me
<diddledan> I like the plot twists the best ;-p
<DJones> diddledan: Yep, thats my view as well
<DJones> Its called free will, I respect that
<diddledan> I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong. Scientific process requires that I be open to the idea that there is no deity. Likewise I'm open to the idea of science proving that there is a deity afterall
<diddledan> the way I see it is: if I believe in some deity and follow that religion, and I'm wrong, what do I lose?
<diddledan> the lack of losing anything by being wrong is outweighed by the fraternity and belonging of believing in deity
<DJones> ...well, if you're wrong,....you have to move to America were Disney's Mickey & Donald are president & VP :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> poor murrica :-(
<DJones> ..Ooops, Mickey & Donald are VP & President
<popey> Good morning
<diddledan> ello popester
<diddledan> you been away?
<ali1234> DJones: the theory goes that it was done to raise awareness of the silly law
<diddledan> aye, it is a bit strange of the complainant "doing their civil duty" in reporting it but that they weren't offended themselves
<diddledan> if you weren't offended, then why report it?!
<ali1234> civil disobedience meets malicious compliance
<daftykins> \o hi folks
<dogmatic69> here's a message I have not  seen since the 90's http://i.imgur.com/k0QEped.png
<dogmatic69> after installing visual paradigm for UML
<daftykins> dogmatic69, phew, you wouldn't want to rack up the phone bill!
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> It's wierd, the site looks like it was only released last week using the latest in material design and HTML5!
<dogmatic69> with a message like that you would expect a bit of <blink>, <marquee> and some geo-cities gifs
<daftykins> a client called me out the other day because the government housing website wasn't doing what they wanted, so i popped over as soon as i could "oh, well it didn't load earlier"
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<dogmatic69> lmao, luckily I am somewhat sheltered from customers these days
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEC-lWSlmI
<daftykins> shared connection is so bad here i had to sign up to a mobile broadband service temporarily ;)
<daftykins> 100GB isn't much to get by on!
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> i used up 8GB watching a single baseball game XD
 * dogmatic69 flashes the 300mbps virgin line
<zmoylan-pi> isn't baseball one of those sports that pre internet you could watch all the action on teletext? :-P
<diddledan> and the guy swung his stick. missed. now walking to the next position
<diddledan> and the next guy swung his stick. missed. walking to the next position. previous guy walking to the next position beyond that
<diddledan> FBI director has been fired by trumpet
<zmoylan-pi> well he put the knife in hillarys campaign... you can't trust someone like that...
<diddledan> https://www.apnews.com/094da2d5fb1e45bda42e55c1577f815c/Trump-fires-FBI-director-James-Comey
<diddledan> "first they came for the judiciary"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/joshshepperd/status/862064718286114817
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-10
<diplo> Morning all
<diddledan> morning
<foobarry> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/security/4022344 ewww
<diddledan> yeah. the good news is they had a patch ready within 48 hours from being told. over the weekend
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Mother Ocean Day! ð  ð
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWekvu3-ckw
<JamesTait> Very good, diddledan. âº
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frfadf6LjmE I know it is sea but it makes me smile so I don't care :D
<czajkowski> good morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: howdy
<diddledan> this looks nuts: https://youtu.be/dxiCnhH6TcM
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: The first one was TOTALLY AWESOME!
<diddledan> yup
<TwistedLucidity> G/F is German. She was laughing at the German-language jokes before most of the audience due to the subtitles being a smidge behind.
<TwistedLucidity> "Black to the moon". He he he he
<diddledan> I fancy firing up netflix to rewatch it
<TwistedLucidity> Unsure how legit this is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLwiO3U8DU
<TwistedLucidity> URL at the end looks OK
<diddledan> someone's building scaffolding up the side of the building. I wonder what they're up to?
<diplo> Any postscript gurus in here ?
<diddledan> diplo: I thought postscript was designed so that nobody can ever become guru level?
<diplo> hah that is certainly how I feel atm
<diddledan> or was that SGML?
<diplo> Anything to do with printing*
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> received a nice new intel x520 fibre network card today
<diddledan> can get that running under vmware this arvo
<diplo> Don't play with anything like that anymore :( all my stuff is old...
<diplo> So basically with my printing, we send raw postscript files to printers and it just works, has done for years... issue is we have a few customers who have decided to get there own printers, said postscript on the box but its postscript3, not the same thing and only really supports pcl6, what I'm trying to find out is a way of converting on the fly from ps > pcl6 > to printer
<diddledan> the guy who wrote this has died: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5ca6Hsb2Q
<knightwise> Robert Miles , heroe of my 90's DJ days
<diddledan> :-(
<davmor2> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<davmor2> 47 that is no age
<davmor2> OMG how will we say things have gone wrong if Pete Tong dies?
<diddledan> omg. that cannot happen!
<knightwise>  /join #oggcastplanet
<knightwise> oopz
<knightwise> sorry :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> now we know where you're hiding ;-)
<knightwise> Project Libre ... a pretty good alternative for MS project .. if you like 90"s interfaces
<diddledan> dear god, he doesn't understand appearances at all: https://twitter.com/jzb/status/862261030830968832
<davmor2> hahahahahahahahaha
<davmor2> diddledan: have you ever seen his hair that should be the clue he has no idea about image and appearance at all :D
<diddledan> lol. good point
<foobarry> why does every techie person seem to end up spending 80% of their time tweeting politics?
<foobarry> esp. well known ones, but not just
<diddledan> because we care
<czajkowski> foobarry: people care and tech people seem more clued in on how to engage and use the tools to discuss and share
<zmoylan-pi> because vim is better than emacs foobarry :-)
<TwistedLucidity> edlin 4 eva in ur hertz
<davmor2> foobarry: they are the only one that can see through the bull
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: what's emacs
<zmoylan-pi> it's an operating system that some folk like
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh it's the new version of windows
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i said like... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> not tolerated...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh it's Mac's latest
<zmoylan-pi> it is technically free so that rules out any mac connection...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: got it it's what Mandrake turned into in the end right?
<zmoylan-pi> but with fewer xkcd references... https://www.xkcd.com/378/
<twinsen^x> davmor2: emacs, a text editor, Richard Stallman, kernel not included, learning curve
<TwistedLucidity> s/curve/cliff
<zmoylan-pi> these cliffs... http://www.touristspots.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Cliffs-of-Moher1.jpg they were the cliffs of madness in princess bride...
<zmoylan-pi> 30 years old that movie...
<zmoylan-pi> 20 years for fifth element...
<davmor2> 40 for starwars
<zmoylan-pi> 10 for the 300
<twinsen^x> fitth element got new job at biohazard
<davmor2> 50 years for the graduate
<zmoylan-pi> 60 for the bridge on the river kwai...
<davmor2> 70 the original Miracle on 34th street
<zmoylan-pi> i'm only going with movies i have on dvd... :-)
<davmor2> + lots of Charlie Chaplin
<davmor2> Yes
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: close to 4000 here
<zmoylan-pi> i really must hunt down a copy of the great dictator...
<zmoylan-pi> adolf hitler got a copy and watched it alone but never said anything about it iirc
<twinsen^x> the great dictator, file copy, archive.org https://archive.org/details/CC_1940_01_01_TheGreatDictator_IT ; copyright i don't know; film copy or auction i don't know
<zmoylan-pi> thanks twinsen^x, i was trying to get past this weeks youtube don't allow copies fun and games...
<twinsen^x> you're welcome. additional search shows, christie auction GBP 11,950 http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/charlie-chaplinthe-great-dictator-1940-4413537-details.aspx
<zmoylan-pi> i don't have a credit card to buy online.  i will make 1-2 circuits of shops in city centre to see if i can find the dvd...
<twinsen^x> suddenly i realized 10 dvd set of the chaplin collection, in the bookshelf... vynil wrapped, i forgot i had bought several yrs ago
<zmoylan-pi> he's very much forgotten at the mo... i suspect when it's the 100 year anniversary of his films coming up they'll be /rediscovered/
<zmoylan-pi> ditto laurel and hardy, harald lloyd and quite a few others...
<zmoylan-pi> i remember as a kid trying for ages to rub my stomach and pat my head and then switch hands... :-)
<twinsen^x> i remember i bought the collection, to show to my daughter but she's not interested...
<zmoylan-pi> you'll just have to sit down and watch them and she wants to be there she can't have a phone/tablet as it would be distracting...
<twinsen^x> she got iphone and ipad and sns acounts...
<twinsen^x> have a nice day. thanks for your advice, i & daughter gonna try the g dictator along with ghost in the shell.
<lopta> Mornin'
<diddledan> microsoft are keynoting their build (developers') conference right now: https://channel9.msdn.com
<diddledan> 500 meeleon windwos 10 devices now
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Eat What You Want Day! ð  ð ð ð
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy all
 * zmoylan-pi spits in spitoon and orders a sarsaparilla to set the mood...
<SuperMatt> This channel ain't big enough for the 81 of us!
 * diddledan puts in a planning application for an extension
<zmoylan-pi> dem's fightin' words...
 * zmoylan-pi organises a good old fashioned barn raising for a bigger room...
<brobostigon> maybe we need to invent a tardis to put the channel in, :D
<zmoylan-pi> and then put a bag of holding in there to store the rubbish...
<MooDoo> not that busy from what I see
<zmoylan-pi> the silent masses...
<diddledan> I don't care what you might think about Microsoft, this video is full of feels - I cried! https://youtu.be/k9Rm-U9havE
<zmoylan-pi> the time i installed windows 95 from floppies... i cried... :-P
<diddledan> my HTTP caching proxy has been paying dividends the past couple days - MANY rebuilds of my snap where it fetches sourcecode each time
<Azelphur> I'm having amusement at work, CEO: "Azelphur has too much work, lets hire another Python dev", Me: "Ok, but you're gonna have a hard job finding someone with the required skillset in your budget", she finds a new guy, Knows Django, working on his masters, which is amusing since I have no qualifications whatsoever. Quits on day 1 stating "The work is too advanced for me"
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/YXcOEEJZ/
<zmoylan-pi> emmas watch is a wearable version of this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiVQcgmIi08 still impressive though. even if it only gives them a few months/years of relief
<diddledan> nice graph - I got featured in the newsletter today
<Azelphur> So they hire another developer, he started on Monday, linked him to the docs and told him to set up a local instance so he could work on it - silence for 3 days, then quits.
<diddledan> number 7 on the list of top 10 snaps this month
<diddledan> Azelphur: ouch
<diddledan> that's a bad run
<Azelphur> at least I have job security? XD
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: true
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: monkeys write the works of shakespere
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Eventually....
<Azelphur> It is a nice confidence boost though, especially that fully educated guy turning tail
<Azelphur> and here's me, with no GCSEs xD
<zmoylan-pi> have you tried manacles to keep them at the desks? :-P
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> Azelphur: I always think people freshly graduating from uni have no idea about how to actually do a job - they have read a lot and that's it - takes them 3 months to get up to speed to being in business (according to my dad who saw several over the years in broadcast engineering)
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: We don't let graduates check code in for ~3 months. Everything passes through their mentor.
<diddledan> I mean they can go into detail about how a thing works, but when it's broken they have zero diagnostics stills (for example)
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: that's a good way to go
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, expecting a developer to hit the ground running is a little much.  unless you are spending a stupid amount for a really really experienced developer
<TwistedLucidity> And they don't have the experience to understand why clear logging is vital when a production system X thousand miles away goes down.
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea I'd agree, it reminds me of this time I was talking to someone that had graduated from a cisco network security course, and I had a server that was under denial of service attack, I used tcpdump, found the attackers IP and firewalled it, but I was curious to know how he would have done it
<Azelphur> he knew that he was supposed to find the attackers IP and block it, but when asked how he would do that - he had no clue
<Azelphur> all the theory - none of the practical
<diddledan> bingo
<TwistedLucidity> I mighta used netstat or iotop; but same idea.
<diddledan> I'm gonan get that printed on a shirt: "all the theory - none of the practical ~Azelphur"
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't it suggest that the wearer is inexperienced? :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: your point being? ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> ::flashes bus pass...:: wallet inspector ::holds out hand expectantly:: :-P
 * diddledan hands it over
 * zmoylan-pi sees how poor diddledan is and puts a fiver and hands it back...
<diddledan> I think you'll find everything in order
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> duck a duck! https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/arresting-reporter-asking-questions-unacceptable-assault-first-amendment
<diddledan> they're going after the journalists now
<TwistedLucidity> RESPEK MAH AUTHORITAH!
<TwistedLucidity> Only the "first amendment" bit distinguishes this as a Trump story and not a May one.
<zmoylan-pi> prince charles hit a journalist in ireland with a sliothar earlier i think... IT HAS BEGUN...
<TwistedLucidity> That all? I thought everything shy of tactical nuclear weapons was legal in hurly?
<TwistedLucidity> s/hurly/hurley
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you don't run holding the ball you're grand. running like it's the worlds most aggressive egg and spoon race with the ball at the end of your hurl and you're grand...
 * TwistedLucidity is disappearing down a rabbit-hole of Gaelic sports on Wikipedia.....
<zmoylan-pi> i think hurley is now on sky sports.  we usually get 1-2 articles in ireland how some match or other has folk in uk wondering who declared war on a football field...
<TwistedLucidity> When we invent Terminators, I know where we'll be seeing them first!
 * zmoylan-pi will send terminators to the recycle centre with a nokia in a sock as primary weapon...
<DJones> Speaking of goning after journalists http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39882969
<DJones> s/goning/going/
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: I'd class hurling as a cross between hockey & rugby
<DJones> And maybe WWE wrestling
<zmoylan-pi> my school got kicked out of league when the opponents complained that they'd laid on 3 saint johns ambulances for them...
<DJones> were they needed?
<DJones> The St John's that is
<zmoylan-pi> game was cancelled.  the 2 for the previous game wasn't enough
<DJones> Heh
<zmoylan-pi> kneecaps grow back, right? :-P
<DJones> Yep....
<DJones> ...in the 2525
<DJones> ...in the year 2525
<DJones> Saying that, my dad's knee is better in 2016 than it has been since the early 1960's (due to replacement, unfortunately not due to growing back)
<Azelphur> ali1234: dat BItcoin price, you still hodling? :)
<diddledan> poor camera dudde
<ali1234> Azelphur: people are starting to post about how they mortaged their house to buy bitcoin, so i expect a crash to $200 before the end of the year
<diddledan> I hope his camera is ok
<zmoylan-pi> till the next bubble
<diddledan> ali1234: oh god
<diddledan> why?!
<diddledan> why would you do that?!
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<Azelphur> thats nuts
<Azelphur> ali1234: although on the flip side, you know I've been hodling a long time, the amount I have in BTC isn't exactly safe :)
<Azelphur> although I don't see it dropping to $200, probably gonna crash down a bit soon but not below $1k I would think
<ali1234> there are two big things that can cause a crash: one side or the other goes through with a hardfork, or bitfinex turns out to be insolvent (gox 2.0)
<ali1234> either would take it well below $1000
<Azelphur> maybe so
<zmoylan-pi> i think i saw it mentioned that the current bubble is because it became a legal tender in japan
<ali1234> i don't believe that
<ali1234> i think the current bubble is caused by bitfinex, just as the last one was caused by gox
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.coindesk.com/japan-bitcoin-law-effect-tomorrow/
<ali1234> but that's just my opinion
<zmoylan-pi> like anything in economics there are arguments every which way... :-)
<diddledan> who are bitfinex?
<diddledan> and therefore wwhy would they be causing a bubble?
<ali1234> a big exchange that recently turned off fiat withdrawals
<diddledan> oh that sounds like a bad state then
<ali1234> forcing everyone with fiat in the exchange to buy bitcoin if they want to withdraw
<diddledan> how do people convert to real money if the exchanges stop doing fiat?
<ali1234> meet a shady guy in a cafe and exchange bitcoin for cash
<diddledan> I just don't understand what about bitcoin makes it a desirable commodity and therefore have value
<ali1234> it is trustless, uncensorable, and works over the internet
<ali1234> it actually works more like cheques than cash
<zmoylan-pi> it's less hassle than paypal :-)
<Oli> diddledan, If its a limited resource and it has value to anybody, it has value. It has clear applications for criminal enterprise so however tenuous the legal uses might seem to you, enough people want it to give it a value.
<diddledan> Oli: I guess the criminals desire it and give it a value so then the non criminals start using it because it then has value
<diddledan> the underworld bootstrapped it for everyone else :-p
<Oli> Well then there's the faddy investory types who use blockchain as a noun, verb and child's name.
<ali1234> it depends whether you consider international remittance to be a crime
<Oli> I'm not saying using it is criminal. I'm saying it's used by criminals.
<diddledan> I got featured on OMG Ubuntu! http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/corebird-ubuntu-snap-app-available
<ali1234> a twitter app...
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> itunes is going into the windows store!
<MartijnVdS> Oh no! That will create an infinite loop
<diddledan> INORITE
<diddledan> suse is gonna be available on the windows subsystem for loonicks
<diddledan> and they're working with fedora
<diddledan> ref: https://www.petri.com/microsoft-bringing-new-flavors-linux-windows-10
<daftykins> oof what a day
<daftykins> my actual house looks like a bomb went off in it :>
 * zmoylan-pi does not claim responsibility...
<diddledan> daftykins: how long till the work is done?
<daftykins> i'll PM you my video from earlier, 'cause i was a rudeler in it
<daftykins> already been some surprises so hopefully still within the 5 weeks for the bathroom
<diddledan> wow, they're really going to town
<daftykins> nothing left, mmm
<daftykins> floorboards will be out eventually
<daftykins> something something works want to be able to stand on something, the cheek!
<daftykins> *workers
 * daftykins rattles zmoylan-pi's cage
<daftykins> "when shall we three meet again"
<daftykins> diddledan: you didn't tell him to go for a long walk off a short pier again did you?
<daftykins> you know his Pi isn't waterproof!
<diddledan> did he burger off again?!
<zmoylan-pi> it's also not at the mercy of builders atm... :-P
<daftykins> the pier? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> pier today was under cloud cover and spotty rain so didn't walk down it...
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> probably for the best
<zmoylan-pi> it's pretty exposed so it kinda hits you sideways near the end even with a light breeze
<daftykins> diddledan: y'know i mentioned that old 2010 iMac wouldn't boot Sierra on a clean SSD?
<daftykins> craziest situation ever, i plugged in a flash drive with win10 on it today, turned out the batteries were dead again in the keyboard so my holding 'alt' wasn't doing anything, though amusingly the EFI somehow chainloaded the Sierra install from the 10 flash drive :D
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite mac story was a mac mini with hardware problems.  trying to press alt at boot to get to the hardware diagnostic muenu didn't work.  took 2 days of various attempts to find the apple keyboard i was using wasn't 100% compatible with the mac mini.  had to use the menu button on apple remote to get the menu
<zmoylan-pi> wow... 12 years since leroy jenkins...
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i wonder if he ever tried such a strategy since
<diddledan> thanks for making me feel old
<daftykins> oh you're ancient, don't worry
 * daftykins whistles
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/Zoiu8_K-eZg
<daftykins> i made the mistake of reaching my hand in toward the kitten warming herself from the PC exhaust fans at a clients place today
<diddledan> aww
<diddledan> she swipe at it?
<daftykins> the important thing is i have video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwbH9uo1bic
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> nice!
<daftykins> presumably the android upload feature gives you a shoddy quality version, seemed to only upload 16MB
<daftykins> the beep was me leaning on the UPS...
<daftykins> she has such fluffy paws :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> G'ning
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/SYs5z what just happened?
<foobarry> my email on a spam list overnight?
<popey> foobarry: there's a setting in hangouts which disables unsolicited chat
<popey> also, I have noticed a large uptick in comment spam on G+ this week, maybe related
<foobarry> strange that i never needed it before
<foobarry> but i got a mail from haveibeenpwned this week
<foobarry> In late 2016, a huge list of email address and password pairs appeared in a "combo list" referred to as "Exploit.In". The list contained 593 million unique email addresses, many with multiple different passwords hacked from various online systems. The list was broadly circulated and used for "credential stuffing", that is attackers employ it in an attempt to identify other online systems where the acco
<foobarry> unt owner had reused their password
<czajkowski> Aloha
<BigRedS> Ah, goood morning!
<diplo> corebird 1.4.2 from 'diddledan' installed
<diplo> Is that this diddledan ?
 * diddledan scurries for cover
<diplo> hah
<diplo> Doesn't work for me, loads if I run from terminal, no desktop icon ( tried logging on and off ) but Request ping/create account doesn't do anything currently. Do I need to reboot for this sort of thing ?
<diplo> The name com.canonical.SafeLauncher was not provided by any .service files
<diddledan> the request pin button won't work unless you have snapd-xdg-open installed on your host system
<diddledan> this is a known issue that the snappy devs STILL haven't fixed months after it was reported
<diplo> ta fanx, installing now
<diddledan> it seems the plan is to move the functionality of that apt package into snapd itself
<diplo> Just went on snapcraft but thought I'd prod you too
<diplo> Works better now
<diddledan> as to the desktop icon, it seems somewhat flaky - sometimes I get it to install the icon other times I don't
<diplo> Works ta, will write my own I guess..
<diddledan> I don't know if I'm packaging the snap wrong, or if it's a snapd issue
 * diplo will try and remember where .desktop files go
<diddledan> for your own sessions only, not system wide, .desktop files can go in ~/.local/share/applications/
<diplo> ta
<diddledan> the systemwide path is /usr/share/applications
<diddledan> or at a pinch I think /usr/local/share/applications will work, too
<diddledan> my Winsider is busted
<diplo> Cheers, guessing I'll need to logout for it to be available
<diddledan> somehow Windows' drivers for NVidia believe my discrete GTX960 card is actually in a laptop (it's in a desktop) running in Optimus mode
<diddledan> wait, is Trumpet saying he's copying Nixon's usage of recording devices? https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/863027192371961856
<diplo> I've set /ignore to most things trump
<diplo> But I do follow sarah
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39899646
<diplo> Been following that on twitter, knew it wouldn't be long
<diplo> Always wondered why they had external access on the machines they keep our records on
<diddledan> "Trusts and hospitals in London, Blackburn, Nottingham, Cumbria and Hertfordshire have been affected."
<diddledan> yeah, seems a bit wonky to allow remote access to their systems
<diddledan> to/from
<diddledan> if they need the internet then they should use a different PC
<diplo> Yup or a tablet or something, whilst I've been at the docs they've googled before :P
<diddledan> when someone says "80% chance of <x> happening" do they mean that in terms of 50% means equal chance of happening as that of not happening, and 0% chance meaning definitely won't happen?
<diddledan> diplo: I hope they weren't googling your symptoms :-p
<diplo> Well drugs for my symptoms
<Laney> oh goddddddddd it's finally raininggggggggggggg
<Laney> the allotment is like ":)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))"
<diddledan> blind man coding is epic: https://channel9.msdn.com/
<m0nkey_> You can have our rain.
<m0nkey_> We've even had a bit of a flood.
<zmoylan-pi> but we'll never take your jaffa cakes? :-P
<m0nkey_> No Jaffa cakes :-(
<diddledan> said by an australian in an american film about scotland made in canada
<zmoylan-pi> ... no jaffa cakes... what hell have we sunk too...
<diddledan> ok, maybe not made in canada. I donno about that bit
<zmoylan-pi> also made in ireland
<diddledan> ok, so lets celebrate scotland, by making a film in ireland for an american audience with an australian actor
<diddledan> totally makes sense
<zmoylan-pi> the irish army supplied the extras iirc
<diddledan> well them lot would probably like to give the scots a good hiding
<diddledan> ever since the giants' causeway incident
<diddledan> that scottish giant was a big meanie!
<zmoylan-pi> well the battle went well and created the isle of man...
<diddledan> the land of the three legged folk
<zmoylan-pi> and tailess cats
<ali1234> does anyone else think this nhs cyber attack is really fishy?
<popey> triggered by someone who wants to show the NHS are failing, rather than some random russian dude?
<ali1234> i'm not going to speculate about motive
<ali1234> but it seems odd that all the computers in a national organization would get infected at exactly the same time
<ali1234> i mean do they have a shared network drive accessible by all the millions of computers in the country?
<ali1234> okay not millions, more like 50,000 probably
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Telefonica is also hit -- there are rumours there's some kind of "port 445" based worm going around
<MartijnVdS> quoting my ISP friends/ex-coworkers here
<popey> i dont think they all are infected
<ali1234> port 445 as in samba?
<popey> quite a lot I imagine
<popey> and precautionary take them all offline
<popey> so no more get infected
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: port 445 as in SMB over IP
<ali1234> i doubt they have the ability to take all systems offline remotely
<ali1234> given the way the NHS is structured, and the fact they only centralized the records what, 4 years ago?
<ali1234> oh, apparently they scrapped it anyway
<ali1234> so are these systems even connected together at all?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: check out this: https://twitter.com/search?q=445&src=typd
<MartijnVdS> people are claiming it's a MS17-010 based thing
<ali1234> is that the thing that was in the news yesterday/this morning?
<MartijnVdS> well it's from march, but it's a RCE (system privs, basically "root") in the service that handles port 445
<diddledan> there is also the bug that MS patched on Tuesday in Windows Defender
<ali1234> ah yes thats the one i was thinking about
<ali1234> isn't that email related?
<ali1234> and you know how bigs orgs like to CC all...
<diddledan> the one that Tavis Ormandy alerted them to - basically anything that can get a file into the realtime scanner (so an email arriving in your mail client counts, even if you don't read it) can exploit it
<diddledan> you may find even email that gets into your spam box will get scanned
<diddledan> just downloading a file in your browser will probably be a vector, again even if you never open it
<ali1234> people downloading wouldn't hit a nationwide org in a matter of hours though
<diddledan> true
<ali1234> an email sent to everyone could though
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it would if it was an image embedded on some website they all use
<diddledan> it does seem somewhat fishy that so many systems went down together
<diddledan> point, MartijnVdS !
<MartijnVdS> (some ad even maybe)
<diddledan> iiiiiits FRIDAY PIZZA time
<popey> I've worked at placed where pretty much the entire company was nuked in one day
<diddledan> popey: you did a good hack there
<popey> i was the only one who could carry on working because i had a debian laptop
<popey> everyone else was on windows
<popey> they went and played golf, i was sat there still working :S
<popey> not sure who won there :)
<diddledan> was it your responsibility to clean up the mess?
<popey> no
<diddledan> phew
<popey> i think it was sasser or blaster or something
<diddledan> aah yeah they were nasty beasts
<diddledan> I tried reading the code of melissa way back in time
<foobarry> i'm betting its not a zero day and failure to patch systems effectively
<foobarry> i recently watched a programme about stuxnet that was amazing
<foobarry> did anyone see it?
<diddledan> apparently the hospital ransomware attack used a CIA tool (released under the vault7 dump)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/863122677820731393
<diddledan> oh I misread
<diddledan> NSA tools, not the Vault7 tools
<diddledan> https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/05/an-nsa-derived-ransomware-worm-is-shutting-down-computers-worldwide/
<diddledan> also on the intercept: https://theintercept.com/2017/05/12/the-nsas-lost-digital-weapon-is-helping-hijack-computers-around-the-world/
<ali1234> any reliable evidence of that?
<ali1234> this sure is a huge mess
<foobarry> http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/12/samsung-galaxy-s8-dex-station-review.html
<foobarry> "I tried using the latest Samsung smartphone to replace my work computer â now I'm convinced it's the future"
<foobarry> some sites are saying its eternalblue.
<ali1234> yeah but are they basing it on anything more than "because wikileaks said so"
<foobarry> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/12/spain_ransomware_outbreak/
<ali1234> "It's understood"
<ali1234> fake news heh
<foobarry> doesn't all quite add up yet
<foobarry> variant not detected by antimalware tools?
<foobarry> patched or unpatched systems? in NHS maybe unpatchable
<ali1234> just as likely the attackers made their own exploit for a know bug
<Bassetts> Can someone tell me if I am being dumb here. I have rsnapshot backing up my laptop to my media server. df -h --total reports 6.3G used on the laptop and 230G free. du -h -d 1 tells me the backup folder is at 24G and the backup is still running?!
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the nhs has speant a large sum of money to keep getting patches for the winxp systems?
<diddledan> they did
<diddledan> doesn't mean they're doing anything with them though
<zmoylan-pi> well that's money well spent then...
<diddledan> like installing them or something
<zmoylan-pi> at least we'll see how bad their backup system is out of this...
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> good to know
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> Morning
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> the libdems recon the tories cancelled the patching deal with MS for obsolete windows systems at the NHS a year ago
<diddledan> foobarry: ^ that
<diddledan> from corbyn: "I'm also very angry that in 2014, there was a one-year renewal of the protection system on the NHS systems which was not renewed after that and not renewed the year after that and so our systems are now not upgraded and not protected."
<penguin42> diddledan: Not like that GCHQ new there was a critical hole in them all that needed fixing....
<diddledan> no, it's not like Microsoft sent out an upgrade now message or anything
<MartijnVdS> they even have XP patches
<ali1234> yeah they sent an "upgrade now" message in 2014
<diddledan> there was another a couple weeks ago about this very hole, too
<ali1234> a ouple of weeks ago? yeah that didn't apply to XP. no patch issued until today
<ali1234> the only "upgrade now" message for those users was the one in 2014
<ali1234> today i figured out that my internet disconnects whenever i turn on on specific light
<ali1234> its one of those corn cob LED bulbs
<penguin42> impressive!
<ali1234> its nowhere near the router either
<ali1234> but my house does have a lot of phone extensions so that is probably picking it up
<ali1234> it only causes a brief disconnect too
<ali1234> interestingly there is a noticable delay between flipping the switch and the light actually turning on
<penguin42> it's dhcping it's light obviously....
<penguin42> that must have a very screwy power converter in to do that
<ali1234> it is a few years old
<ali1234> i had one of these die already
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> anyone else watching Eurovision song contest?  I woudn't be suprised if UK is last on the chart this year, for political reasons, Brexit
<penguin42> sebsebseb: I thought would be quite nice if we lined the final brexit date up with the 2019 eurovision
<zmoylan-pi> i think that'll be the year every european country enters a song about some ancient war they had with the uk... :-P
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> there have been 1-2...
<sebsebseb> s
<daftykins> dee-da-dee
<diddledan> I like the yodellers
<sebsebseb> diddledan: your watching to then
<sebsebseb> eurovision ?
<diddledan> oh no, I just like yodellers and wanted to let everyone know
<sebsebseb> oh
<daftykins> i can actually watch some broadcast whilst i'm in the holiday pad!
<daftykins> i was checking out some NCIS on Channel 5 HD earlier, what a terrible series :D
<diddledan> sneaky
<diddledan> haha, I like Abby
<diddledan> Abbie?
<daftykins> goth-ish one?
<diddledan> Abbey?
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> i remember a mate telling me she's actually ancient but looks young
<diddledan> the actress is Pauley Parette
<diddledan> if you wanna google her
<daftykins> Paulie Parrot?
<diddledan> though that is illegal in some places
<diddledan> gotta love a good bum
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/V_NpeRSnldI
<daftykins> made another vid of my shower room works
<penguin42> diddledan: She spits opinions pretty heavily people either like or hate her
<penguin42> l
<diddledan> m
<daftykins> n
<diddledan> o
<daftykins> p
<sebsebseb> ok portugal won
<sebsebseb> and didnt know nhs had a cyber attack
<daftykins> yip, XP flaw taken advantage of
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah probably
<sebsebseb> they saying was a virus on bbc news
<penguin42> daftykins: Good look when they go after the Intel MEI problems
<sebsebseb> and what os tends to get viruses
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh that'll be fun
<daftykins> well 'virus' is the wrong word
<penguin42> it self-spread didn't it?
<daftykins> that's a worm
<daftykins> or have i got things backwards today :D
<daftykins> ah no it is a worm
<penguin42> ah yes, it's not embedded in anything else
<sebsebseb> yeah bbc news just said was a worm
<sebsebseb> ramsonware even
<MartijnVdS> ransomworm
<sebsebseb> and that some nhs computers use old oses
<daftykins> did you not know that? :>
<sebsebseb> yep they should have at least upgraded to windows 7 a few years back really
<daftykins> well they're one of the biggest places that's tied to crappy old ActiveX plugin based stuff in IE on XP i think
<sebsebseb> daftykins: i know they have been paying millions to keep xp suported for longer
<daftykins> well did, amusingly they cut that off in 2015 i read today - in order to save money
<sebsebseb> oh?
<sebsebseb> link?
<daftykins> i read that earlier on my phone, so i've not got any way to share that - but i think it was on the register
<sebsebseb> if they had better it people would have switched to linux possibly instead, but the uk is behind and sucky for it
<sebsebseb> the germans may have swtchd to linux
<daftykins> nah y'see the software is their problem, they'd have to have so much redeveloped to switch OS - and you know what all modern IT projects are like :D
<daftykins> come in way late, over budget and non-functional
<sebsebseb> true
<sebsebseb> but maybe 7 with some kind of xp programs compatability?
<daftykins> that only ever worked through Virtual PC tech, so useless - wouldn't have changed the outcome there
<sebsebseb> well vms can be offline
<daftykins> i'd always heard that the software being tied to IE's ActiveX plugins means it's web based, so needs network connectivity to function
<daftykins> you have to bear in mind that if the answer was that simple then they'd have done it :>
<sebsebseb> well  an intranet or  something maybe instead of internet?
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> you really don't work in IT do you? ;)
<sebsebseb> daftykins: I know its not so simple some stuff
<sebsebseb> daftykins: but for certain things they will make excuses not to upgrade as well
<sebsebseb> or change software
<sebsebseb> in any organisaion
<daftykins> probably just comes down to money for the NHS
<sebsebseb> daftykins: remember Internet Explorer 6 being default for years, despite things like firefox being better
<sebsebseb> now some organisations or at  elast librarires and such, provide browser choice
<penguin42> it's not just NHS - a lot of orgs really dont like upgrading; I've heard of banks that run mainframe hardware that's so old it's out of maintenance and they were buying spares on ebay
<sebsebseb> penguin42: canonical know it to, so ubuntu 12.04 esm
<daftykins> esm? EOL you mean?
<sebsebseb> what did you miss that news?
<sebsebseb> extended support maintinance for paying customers
<sebsebseb> it will get updates for at least two more years
<daftykins> oh that, nah i just didn't recognise that acronym
<sebsebseb> for paying customers
<sebsebseb> eol for everyone else though yeah
<daftykins> as it should be :>
<sebsebseb> its  similar to what Microsoft did with xp really
<sebsebseb> except i dont think these companies are paying millions to keep  ubuntu  updated for longer :d
<daftykins> sebsebseb: you're not teaching me anything i don't already know XD
<daftykins> you're the one that thought VMs can save the NHS XD
<sebsebseb> i didnt say that
<sebsebseb> i just said for some things could maybe be used
<sebsebseb> but i didnt say vms orignaly
<daftykins> it was roughly as bad a claim as that :>
<sebsebseb> just some way to get old software woring maybe... anyway
<sebsebseb> i think  munich did the right kind of choice all those years back, although apprnatly they have gone windows now
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm well ... you could stuff XP inside a VM with a set of iptables rules that dropped the known bad SMB packets?
<daftykins> you'd do that at the network layer, there'd be no need for the virtualisation element
<daftykins> yeah i keep hearing Munich are planning on voting MS back in
<penguin42> daftykins: yes I'd heard that as well
<daftykins> that'll be a big lose for the ol' Linux-in-business argument
<daftykins> *loss
<sebsebseb> yeaah
<penguin42> daftykins: Do the switches normally have that level of filtering ability?
<daftykins> well in the case of the issue reported they spoke of disabling SMB v1, but i don't think XP even supported newer
<daftykins> think v2 came out with Vista
<penguin42> I guess someone could suggest rolling out a lot of VDI type things to clean this mess up - move all the old desktops back into a VM host, old hardware stays where it is running a thin client
<daftykins> don't think that does anything to sort the problem, if they are married to XP due to old software still
<daftykins> wow Alien vs. Predator on Channel 4 HD
<sebsebseb> daftykins: why wow
<daftykins> mostly it's been over 10 years since i used any broadcast service with one of my own TVs, so it's weird messing with freeview :>
<daftykins> i'm living in a holiday apartment right now whilst my house is worked on for insurance reasons
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<daftykins> you can't even get ITV in HD on freeview over here 'cause they didn't want to pay to broadcast it on the islands XD
<sebsebseb> oh
<penguin42> not that you're missing much
<daftykins> :D nah i can't say i'm going to race home once the work is complete and pay for a TV license, before sorting some kinda service
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-14
<Gring0> h
<sebsebseb> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/   [you're early!]
<brobostigon> :)
<sebsebseb> grr rennet
<Gring0> which is better ubuntu or fedora?
<sebsebseb> Gring0: depends
<Gring0> ok  i used to use antergos been using ubuntu for a while now though
<sebsebseb> Gring0: whats antergos again /
<Gring0> arch
<sebsebseb> Gring0: Fedora probably then
<sebsebseb> Gring0: well depends
<sebsebseb> Gring0: Fedora is more intermediate
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu is more newbie
<Gring0> how long u used ubuntu?
<sebsebseb> Gring0: years, but I don't just use ubuntu
<Gring0> what else you use?
<brobostigon> openbsd, haiku, :)
<Gring0> haiku
<Gring0> never heard of that
<diddledan> I use either templeos or mikeos
<Gring0> lol
<Gring0> do u watch terry?
<Gring0> i never heard of mikeos
<Gring0> cia.snickers
<Gring0>  /join #hacking
<Gring0>  /join #bitcoin
<penguin42> learn to use irc first
<Gring0> lol this is one i dont use x chat
<Gring0> i have weechat and hexchat
<Gring0> but they are set up for tor :/
<brobostigon> haiku is the OSS successor to BeOS. :)
<diddledan> this is a bit nuts: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/project-details.aspx?project=translator-ppt
<penguin42> potentially useful - if it gives sane translations
<daftykins> i'm calling it now: someone's going to demo it in a high-brow event and the translation will be super rude
<diddledan> daftykins: good plan. make it so!
<Gring0> lol
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/calebbarlow/status/863845079949217794
<daftykins> that's how you know who doesn't keep a backup :>
<diddledan> I'm guessing a lot of that is the british :-p
<daftykins> i've been a tad puzzled at the reports 'cause they keep talking about "wow why didn't you guys patch?" but then XP didn't have patches to begin with, sooo...
<diddledan> "wow, why didn't you guys upgrade"
<diddledan> you were told at least two years ago to get the hell off of XP!
<diddledan> microsoft: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2017/05/14/need-urgent-collective-action-keep-people-safe-online-lessons-last-weeks-cyberattack/#sm.0012sr4r31392f7csvn21lreyslho
<daftykins> before even reading, horses let to water and not drinking comes to mind ;D
<ali1234> "you know when u upgrade windows and your scanner doesn't work any more? well imagine if it was a Â£100,000 brain scanner"
<diddledan> at that price you should have a maintenance contract with your provider
<ali1234> hopefully some of those providers are going to get sued
<diddledan> it'll be interesting to ride this out
<diddledan> I have no idea where we're going to end-up
<ali1234> btw check out what got buried: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39885655
<daftykins> diddledan: i vote not Kansas
<diddledan> ^ +1
<diddledan> if you wanna feel old, minority report was 15 years ago!
<daftykins> whaaaaat
<diddledan> INORITE
<daftykins> where's my piece of acrylic portable storage drive?
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins a dvd disk...
<daftykins> oof you said disk with a k!
<zmoylan-pi> and i preferred ice age over minority report...
<zmoylan-pi> i knew i'd buy the dvd after seeing the trailer.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMfeWyVBidk
<daftykins> i can click links now the baseball is over \o/
<daftykins> ah you're a Skratman!
<zmoylan-pi> scrats nutty adventure as an extra on the dvd alone was worth the price...
<daftykins> oh going back to the ransomware jazz, it's kinda funny how many in Russia got hit :D
<zmoylan-pi> plausible deniability... :-P
<daftykins> i can't think whether they even use it legitimately or whether it's super widespread pirated like in China
<daftykins> it being Windows and likely XP
<zmoylan-pi> there was talk a few years back of russia developing their own government linux distro
<daftykins> mmm i remember that
<daftykins> also rumblings about making their own CPUs
<zmoylan-pi> china had red flag linux but it wasn't updated iirc
<diddledan> wasn't red flag the korean one?
<zmoylan-pi> russia do have their own cpus but they're not great and are pricey last i looked...
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux
<zmoylan-pi> the north korean one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, india, cuba and venezeula have ones too... flippin commies and their pushing open standards... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> and the russian military linux... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux
<zmoylan-pi> and they have a few cpus... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_microprocessors
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-07
<Ocean22> Hi guys. Just installed ubuntu 18.04 and find that image scan for linux is not identifying my epson printer anymore. It worked fine on earlier versions of ubuntu. Did a bit of googling but no much help. it says sane change has brken soem thrid party scanner drivers on launchpad. Can  some one guide me in the right directions. thanks
<AuroraAvenue> Ocean22 found this for epson V200, perhaps it shall halp ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PD1zY0aZ0
<AuroraAvenue> but I believe you have posted this before .
<AuroraAvenue> you could also try VueScan. (which sorts out all driver issues)
<AuroraAvenue> https://rockynook.com/shop/photography/the-vuescan-bible/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<DJones> Ugh, hexchat installed by snap is so badly broken
<DJones> can't download any files, no permissions etc.  If thats the average standard for snap installs, it needs to go
<zmoylan-pi> how big is it as a snap versus native installation?
<DJones> No idea, I hadn't realised it was a snap install, ubuntu software doesn't seem to give a clue when installing, won't be making that mistake again
<zmoylan-pi> install synaptic and use that to get the unsnap version?
<DJones> Already done through Ubuntu software
<DJones> Just disappointed that "snaps" are hailed as the way forward and the first one I use (by accident) is badly broken
<Nafallo> popey: ^-- snappy snap :-)
<penguin42> I think the snaps is they're supposed to have some protection to isolate the app - but then you have to explicitly say if you want them to be able to write/download/save stuff
<Nafallo> I'd go as far as saying it's not the average standard, as well.
<Nafallo> trevino's telegram snap works well out of the box here, including downloads.
<daftykins> wow drupal continues to get the RCEs
<zleap> hi
<zleap> just installing server 18.04 looks rather different installer to 16.04
<daftykins> yes subiquity - and it's an absolute mess riddled with bugs
<zmoylan-pi> ...an adventure game... :-)
<popey> (the old debian installer is still available)
<daftykins> via a function key on boot, or some other method?
<popey> different iso
<daftykins> ah reet, good to know
<popey> https://www.ubuntu.com/download/server
<popey> "This release uses our new installer, Subiquity. If you require advanced networking and storage features, such as RAID and LVM, please use the traditional installer found on the alternative downloads page."
 * daftykins doesn't tend to use the main site to get images
<daftykins> you'd be pleased though, this time i even contributed to bugs! ;)
<daftykins> but then i saw too many and stopped ;x
<popey> \o/ bugs ftw
<daftykins> couple of examples were that if a disk wasn't already blank, subiquity failed - aaaand some settings it just plain wasn't applying to the install
<daftykins> s/some/most/
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1767603 did my bit to identify a pretty bad bug.
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1767603 in linux (Ubuntu) "BCM2046B1 and hid2hci generates highcpu usage due to udev since 4.14 kernel" [Medium,Confirmed]
<daftykins> good ol' broadcom kit ;)
<brobostigon> yep.
<daftykins> though 4.14 is only wrapped up in older releases now huh? may've changed?
<brobostigon> i tried 4.17 and the bug is still there. tried 4.13, not an issue.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey guys
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing today man
<brobostigon> knightwise: tired, long day ahead, more coffee required, and you?
<knightwise> same thing , kinda ..
<knightwise> Doing an inverse-remote-office
<knightwise> getting shit done at home from the office
<SuperMatt> good morning to you all
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> https://mirrorbits.lineageos.org/full/mako/20180507/lineage-15.1-20180507-nightly-mako-signed.zip  woop, :)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MbZjzIg5w8
<diddledan> google io is live - starting the keynote in 20 minutes
<diddledan> https://events.google.com/io/live
<zleap> how often are the ubuntu podcasts released ?
<zmoylan-pi> every 2 weeks i think
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so the latest is s1109
<zleap> 1st may
<zleap> thanks
<diddledan> weekly
<diddledan> every thursday
<diddledan> they record two shows each fortnight in one sitting and release them staggered
<zleap> ah thanks
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z2F7pcTjQI
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-09
<avis> not i use ubuntu
<daftykins> what?
<avis> oops i use ubuntu
<daftykins> that's nice, but it seems an odd first statement
<daftykins> usually you are sending a lot of spam here, do you know why that is?
<daftykins> yeah thought as much
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> Now that ChromeOS supports Linux applications, does this mean I'll be able to run Firefox?
<diddledan> SuperMatt: that sounds like the sort of evil that undoes regimes
<SuperMatt> problem with undoing regimes is that you have to be pretty confident you're replacing it with is going to stand up to the job
<SuperMatt> I really like Firefox, but there are a fair few who just won't have any of that
<zmoylan-pi> the number might rise a little when they put adverts in... https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/7/17326184/firefox-ads-sponsored-content-pocket-suggestions
<SuperMatt> I'm not too fussed by it personally, because I trust firefox to do these things in secure ways
<diddledan> alsa-project.org is down :-(
<SuperMatt> oh man, it's so nice to be able to run multiple snap operations at the same time
<diddledan> daftykins: my KVM-over-IP arrived: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Bq3SzkbV/image.png
<zmoylan-pi> we have a code wonka, repeat code wonka... :-) https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0509/961336-poland-chocolate-spill/
<daftykins> diddledan: heh what's with the button with two mouse pointers? is it to make it interesting fighting another 'player' ;D
<zmoylan-pi> you've never played mouse wars? :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> hello! all well in brobostigon land this morning?
<brobostigon> everyone is half asleep still in Taylorworld. and you?
<daftykins> still up from the night before, such are the funny hours i'm keeping atm - but yep all looks well :)
<brobostigon> ah i see. :)
<daftykins> now to the coffee shop for a morning treat
<brobostigon> :D
<SuperMatt> good morning
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> I hate that it takes so long for firefox updates to land :(
<daftykins> never seen that
<daftykins> a mate linked me to this, it's quite an amusing spin on the usual URL shorteners - https://verylegit.link/
<Laney> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i used to use a url evilinator for sending the most dubious of links... :-)
<daftykins> ooh you scoundrel you!
<zmoylan-pi> fun to drop the links in a linux channel were they all knew i only posted good links but their inate security check made it reluctant to click them... :-)
<Laney> yeah I liked shadyurl.com
<zmoylan-pi> like, do you click on any of the links that are posted by people that appear, post a link and then leave?
<Laney> most places it wouldn't be that appropriate to use it though :(
<zmoylan-pi> shadyurl is the one
<daftykins> unfortunately i once clicked one in #ubuntu that was dressed up to look like it was a log file from a problem - and it ended up being... something highly illegal and immoral :|
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, unfortunately there are url goodinators too...
<diddledan> so, either my power supply for server2 has gone titsup, or the mobo is dead
 * diddledan got an amazon prime special on it's way for tomorrow now
<diddledan> (replacement psu)
<daftykins> total inability to support usual power!
<daftykins> argh s/support/supply/
<diddledan> if the psu doesn't fix it then I'll have to RMA the mobo
<daftykins> :<
<diddledan> I think it's still under manufacturer warranty, and if it isn't then I might be able to get it replaced under consumer law - it's one of those atoms that had the low-pin-count bus problem
<daftykins> aaah yes
<daftykins> up and atom
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
 * zmoylan-pi sips tea and trys to warm up after early appointment in cold wet weather...
<diddledan> daftykins: IT'S ALIVE!
<diddledan> seems the PSU was faulty
<zmoylan-pi> a nice result for a friday...
<diddledan> yey for amazon prime 1day delivery :-p
<diddledan> so I spoke too soon. The PSU managed to kill the BIOS on it's way out by the looks.
<diddledan> the board sits there at "initializing system" the text it shows before it enters the main POST routine
<diddledan> the good news is the board itself seems fine, apart from the BIOS. The IPMI all works correctly now, where with the old PSU after death it wouldn't even respond to ping
<diddledan> and the voltages are all normal - it looks like there was a "Main Bus B Undervolt" (ATX+5VSB)
<diddledan> basically I read it as the PSU was sending about 4.2V instead of 5V
<zmoylan-pi> reflash the bios?
<diddledan> doesn't get far enough to be able to do so via software
<diddledan> I guess I should look to see if I can get a chip writer or to see if I can hook JTAG to the board
<diddledan> or I could just spend a tenner and get a preprogrammed one: www.biosflash.com/e/Bios-Chips-ASROCK-C2750D4I-4399.htm
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey pepe's ! !
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hows you man
<brobostigon> lots to think about, and write up, and you?
<knightwise> working for the company , writing up reports and going to do some video editing for the new website this afternoon
<brobostigon> hope it goes ok.
<knightwise> yeah
<knightwise> had a good time yesterday doing some filming for a client of ours
<knightwise> reviewed 3 robots/drones that are not available in the EU at the moment.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> played with this bad boy: https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/02/skydio-r1-review/
<knightwise> (and i managed to crash it)
<brobostigon> woops
<knightwise> yep .. little "heart-attack" moment there
<brobostigon> i bet.
<knightwise> also got to drive a tesla .. that was pretty cool
<knightwise> "flooring it" on a Tesla is an experience that is something unmatched by any vehicle i have driven so far
<brobostigon> i had a moment like that the other day, i packed my bag to go on a training course, with my notebooks in it, which included my notes on the c63 i am filing on my ex-fiance in july, got home unpacked my bag and couldnt find that notebook, lukcily i found it in the inside zip pocket where i knew i wouldnt loose it.
<brobostigon> cool, :)
<brobostigon> all in effort so i can be a father to my own daughter. :)
<andylockran> hey team
<brobostigon> did, i kill everything, mentioning my ex-fiance?
<andylockran> I didn't see that message
<zmoylan-pi> nah, just saturday lack of denizens...
<brobostigon> hmmm.
 * diddledan kills brobostigon 's ex fiance
<penguin42> brobostigon: Oh didn't see that part of the conversation; sorry to hear that
<brobostigon> diddledan: no no, our daughter, killering her us dangerous.
<diddledan> you want me to kill your daughter? well ok..
<diddledan> honestly, you kill one ex fiance and then they want you to kill everyone
<brobostigon> no, of course not.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I'm being a dick
<diddledan> a lovable one, obviously ;-p
<brobostigon> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> no one is to kill anyone! until i blow this whistle! even and i want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say jehovah... :-P
<brobostigon> john clesse.
<diddledan> kill him!
<zmoylan-pi> one of the funniest moments ever put to film...
<brobostigon> doesnt the silly walk do it?
<zmoylan-pi> the jumping up and down shouting stop it stop it stop it
<brobostigon> or when arthur sees his house being bulldozed but ford transports him onto a vogon ship.?
 * penguin42 hands brobostigon a brown paper bag
 * brobostigon puts that brown paper bag, over his daughters head in his ex'fiances tummy, to protect her from her mother.
<brobostigon> if she ha an IQ over 160 odd, she us definitly from my family.
<brobostigon> is*
<penguin42> ah, I hadn't realised the daughter was a future; oh messy
<zmoylan-pi> simple for time travellers.... brobostigon willen have a daughter...
<brobostigon> penguin42: ,y daughter being in present but not yet in the future.
<brobostigon> in the*
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i think my daughter inheriting from me, will one day work out from time dilation and einstein-rosen bridges to work our time travel.
<brobostigon> out*
<zmoylan-pi> oh snap... https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/malware-found-in-ubuntu-snap-store.html
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-13
<knightwise> good morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<kashem> is it possible to know if anyone pinging me?plz...Help
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: daftykins: I've resurrected my server bios
