#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-11
<Aquina> 'lo
<micahg_> mr_pouit: FYI,  pidgin 2.7.11 merged
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Beta2 testing this week; desktop images failed to build today
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: can we do anything to make sure we can build the desktop images tomorrow?
<charlie-tca> <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek starting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<micahg_> charlie-tca: FYI, pidgin 2.7.11 in natty now
<charlie-tca> Thanks :-)
<mr_pouit> I almost never use pidgin, but I guess this is a good thing ;-)
<charlie-tca> I keep thinking I should learn pidgin, but it seems much harder than xchat
<micahg_> well, there were a ton of bug fixes plus some security fixes, so I figured an update was in order
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 8.04 EOL is May 12
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit and ochosi : bug 757754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757754 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "On XUbuntu upgrade maverick->natty update manager offers to install the whole gnome (xubuntu-desktop recommends indicator-messages)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757754
<charlie-tca> Does not seem right that upgrading forces the user to install Gnome, just because of indicator-messages
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we going to need to revert this change to indicators?
 * micahg_ isn't sure what the problem is, seems like just some libs
<charlie-tca> the problem is the upgrade to natty attempted to install 250 gnome packages because the indicator-messages depends
<mr_pouit> I don't think the problem is there actually
<charlie-tca> on them
<micahg_> seems to be indicator-applet that's causing the issues, it depends on gnome-panel
<charlie-tca> I managed to get one of those maverick installs that won't even show me natty is available
<charlie-tca> hm, are we installing that or did the user install that?
<micahg_> err, it's installed through indicator-messages :(
<micahg_> as a recommends
<charlie-tca> Then that would be bad
<charlie-tca> Thanks for looking at the bug, mr_pouit 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-12
<charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal Beta 2 Candidate testing starting tonight! Everyone invited - tracker is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> tonight = now
 * Unit193 downloads
<charlie-tca> syncing here, and started both upgrade tests again. Maybe I will get lucky and get them to work this time...
<charlie-tca> We would like to see more than test for each one, too. 
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> I can now choose any Ubuntu or Xubuntu session after upgrading from maverick to natty
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we have a bug for adding two volume controls to the panel on upgrade?
<charlie-tca> Got one on the panel and one in indicators
<charlie-tca> (and I think they are both Gnome mixer/applet)
<mr_pouit> yes, it's the same upgrade bg
<mr_pouit> *bug
<mr_pouit> bug 757754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757754 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "On XUbuntu upgrade maverick->natty update manager offers to install the whole gnome (xubuntu-desktop recommends indicator-messages)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757754
<charlie-tca> We are getting tons of great positives for Natty 
<charlie-tca> <jibel> charlie-tca, I've seen positive feedback about xubuntu on the forums http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10667472&postcount=14
<charlie-tca> I see a lot on identi.ca too, more than we had for Maverick
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu+1 also has real good posts about Xubuntu Natty
<micahg_> charlie-tca: unfortunately, we're going to ship with Thunderbird 3.1.9 which will be EOL at release, but I"ll have the update ready on release day 
<micahg_> oops
<micahg_> not EOL, but superceded
<charlie-tca> It happens. When the changes hit too fast, they run out of time. 
<charlie-tca> Natty Beta2 desktop images tested good
<charlie-tca> biggest issue at this point is the upgrade bug
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the alternate image installer reverted to the pink and purple colors
<charlie-tca> and we can live with that for the beta2
<charlie-tca> Okay, this is weird now;
<charlie-tca> I made a mistake on the password, and the colors switched to the blue background
<charlie-tca> but they only stayed that way for the password input, the next step, the background is purple again
<charlie-tca> micahg: arm images built today
<micahg> for xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> the only thing I see is Ubuntu Headless armel+omap3
<micahg> ugh, so I guess we'll try for next cycle?
<charlie-tca> sure
 * micahg thinks xubuntu should do well on arm
<charlie-tca> Always a chance we will get it done
<mr_pouit> bah, I don't know. Try to ping Dustin Kirkland so he can fix the color mess he introduced after Feature Freeze
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> Like I said, we are okay for the beta2, 
<charlie-tca> we can try to fix the mess Friday.
<knome> mr_pouit, lol
<mr_pouit> eh, sorry, but I already made two uploads for that, tried several terminal emulators, told him that his color scheme sucks (except on gnome-terminal), and he ignored me
<charlie-tca> No problem, I will track him down when I get a chance. Maybe tomorrow.
<charlie-tca> Something happened along the way, since we had our own colors for beta1
 * charlie-tca thinks Ubuntu makes changes, decides they won't affect us, and when they do, pretend it did not
<charlie-tca> <drc> charlie-tca: Congrats to you and all the xubuntu team...11.04b1 looks as solid as it acts (so far :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-13
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Fresh Natty install on hardware; all drive partitions are now listed as removable devices and will be on the desktop
<ochosi> charlie-tca: that's the expected behaviour
<charlie-tca> sure wasn't expected by me
<charlie-tca> I really can't remove them 
<ochosi> yeah, i don't think there's a way you can
<charlie-tca> and I don't really like them on the desktop full time
<charlie-tca> When I insert a cd or usb drive, yes, I want to see it, but I don't need to see my 10 partitions on my hard drive full time
<charlie-tca> ochosi: panel fonts in natty are really tiny
<charlie-tca> (top panel)
<charlie-tca> I know the panel size requires small fonts, but, are those smaller than 10pt?
<ochosi> about thunar: i'd suggest filing a bug upstream
<charlie-tca> yeah, I have to think about it
<ochosi> about fonts: at least not intentionally
<ochosi> would you mind up-ing a quick screenshot?
<charlie-tca> Let me check them on a bigger monitor, maybe this laptoip
<ochosi> in fact the font-sizes are determined by the dpi ubuntu sets
<charlie-tca> laptop screen might be too small
<ochosi> and dpi depends on your screen-resolution
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> 1280 X 800 on a 15" lcd?
<charlie-tca> No wonder they look tiny to me
<charlie-tca> I think there was a bug about the drives and partitions not showing on the desktop, so maybe this is a fix for that.
<ochosi> with the same res on my 13'' screen the fonts look totally fine
<charlie-tca> (but I still won't like it)
<charlie-tca> You got good eyes
<ochosi> not sure, the thing is that the local partitions are all handled by gio, so i'm not sure how easy it would even be to fix it in thunar
<charlie-tca> snapshotting the screen
<ochosi> e.g. you see the same behavior wrt partitions already in maverick in the "open file" dialog
<ochosi> that one is gtk-builtin and uses gio
<charlie-tca> but these aren't in "open file". They are on the desktop at all times
<ochosi> are you sure?
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> at iirc it's the same behavior
<ochosi> ok, then maybe not, i'd have to check to be sure
<charlie-tca> I am sure I am looking at the desktop, and I am sure I see all the partitions
<ochosi> (and i'm @work so i can't)
<charlie-tca> and I am sure they take a whole column on my de4
<charlie-tca> desktop
<ochosi> try "open file" in some app
<ochosi> e.g. when setting a new desktop-wallpaper
<charlie-tca> will that make them go away from the desktop?
<ochosi> after hitting the "+" the open file dialog should show all your local partitions on the left
<ochosi> just as in thunar
<charlie-tca> I don't want them on my desktop. I don't care if they are in thunar
<ochosi> you can only make all "removable" devices disappear from the desktop, so as i said before, it's not fixable in the way you want to fix them
<ochosi> (meaning: all your other removable devices, like usb-sticks etc. would also not show on the desktop)
<charlie-tca> That's my point. They should show in thunar. But why do I have a whole column of drives on the desktop now?
<ochosi> ah right, so you'd prefer differing behavior in thunar and xfdesktop?
<ochosi> but really, i think you should file a bug upstream
<ochosi> i vaguely remember this issue being discussed before in #xfce-dev, but i think no-one really cared enough about it in the end
<ochosi> k, g2g now, have a nice evening/day/morning everyone
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/147976
<ochosi> right, that's totally the normal/expected font-size
<charlie-tca> Okay
<ochosi> same font-size as on desktop-icons
<charlie-tca> They look smaller on the screen
<charlie-tca> but it is probably my eyes with that screen
<ochosi> probably
<ochosi> zooming in on 100% here it really looks ok
<ochosi> good to see that the slideshow is there :)
<charlie-tca> That's why I asked. You know me and seeing things 
<ochosi> sure, thanks for asking though. could've just as well been a bug
<charlie-tca> better that *I* ask first on that kind of thing
<ochosi> yep :)
<ochosi> anyhow, really gotta run now
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> no problemo
<ochosi> see you around
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-14
<abra> hi all
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we have any kind of workaround for the upgrade issue?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yes, install xfce4-indicator-plugin before the upgrade
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I will try to get that into release notes.
<mr_pouit> so it shouldn't autoselect indicator-applet and create the ugly mess we know.
<charlie-tca> I was hoping that was it. I have an upgrade running to test that
<charlie-tca> Can cody-somerville help us with that mess?
<mr_pouit> I'm waiting for a reply to the bug report to know what to do exactly :}
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<charlie-tca> My workspaces all came out to two in both upgrades and fresh installs this time around!
<micahg> charlie-tca: mr_pouit mayve a pre-depends on the indicator-plugin?
<charlie-tca> Installing xfce4-indicator-plugin before upgrading worked
<mr_pouit> urg, pre-depends
<mr_pouit> no, I think a depends should be enough (in xubuntu-desktop)
<micahg> mr_pouit: doesn't it already have a depends?
<mr_pouit> no, recommends
<micahg> ah, ok
<charlie-tca> hm, I have to say, much as I may not care to use it, unity is shaping up into something very nice.
<charlie-tca> I guess I like to change things more than Ubuntu wants me to.
<charlie-tca> and I would add, if we ever go to those miniature scroll bars, we are in trouble!
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: cjwatson took care of the colors issue on the alternate cd
<charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal Beta 2 is released! Great job on this one, and thank you for all the hard work that went into it!
<mr_pouit> \o/
 * Unit193 Can't wait 'til final
<charlie-tca> two more weeks ... :-)
 * charlie-tca will probably go half crazy by then, too
<Unit193> I have an Xubuntu box that the HD died, /me needs to reinstall
<charlie-tca> Grab the beta2 image and go for it
<charlie-tca> We will not make very many changes to it. (but ubuntu will, I am sure)
<Unit193> As long as it doesn't change much, why not?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: if you install now, and keep it updated, you do not have to reinstall for the final.
<ochosi> hey everyone, just wanted to say i'm leaving for holidays and i'll be back just in time for the release
<ochosi> so have a nice (bugfree :) ) two weeks
<charlie-tca> Enjoy your time!
<charlie-tca> Thanks for your efforts making natty great :-)
<ochosi> thanks, will do
<ochosi> 't'was a pleasure
 * ochosi out
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-15
<vinnl> Hi charlie-tca, is it time for another news message? :)
<vinnl> charlie-tca, I went ahead and created it just to be sure: http://xubuntu.org/news/natty/beta-2
<charlie-tca> y
<Unit193> Xubuntu B2 downloaded just fine
<charlie-tca> and works really nice, too
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-16
<Unit193> Idiot question: Will the installer theme be changed? (It's the old Ubuntu one)
<charlie-tca> most likely, no, not at this late time in the cycle.
<Unit193> Dang! Scroll Lock is still broken...
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-09
<astraljava> knome: Might make it to Free Thursday, are you in if I'm in?
<pleia2> my new logo xubuntu stickers should arrive today :)
<martinphone> how much did you pay for em?
<pleia2> with shipping it was $25.23 for 104
<martinphone> 104.. lol
<martinphone> do you really need that meny?
<martinphone> meny... ftw!!!
<martinphone> many*
<pleia2> I run a lot of linux events and ship them out to people
<astraljava> She has a big laptop. :D
<pleia2> lol
<martinphone> what do you think of this HDD? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1455520&CatId=2681
<pleia2> same thing as I thought in -offtopic, no opinion ;)
<martinphone> please give the noob a hint, is it good? am I wasting my money? are all hdd more or less the same?
<astraljava> There's a redirect loop, can't check it out.
<martinphone> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Spinpoint-M8-2-5-1TB-SATA-3G-Int-HDD-/320818153088 ?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-10
<pleia2> the new stickers are beaaautiful, I'll get pictures in a bit :)
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6916892812/
<Unit193> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6916893420/ side by side, looks more crisp.
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> even my non-pink laptop is all omg princesses
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> i printed my own stickers the other day :P
<pleia2> :D
<GridCube> it was basically a pokeball and an irken logo
<GridCube> :P
 * GridCube thinks this is ot so he will shutup and go eat something
<knome> astraljava, probably :)
<mr_pouit> astraljava: xfce4-volumed will take the first mixer returned by gst when there's nothing in xfconf
<mr_pouit> astraljava: so I force it to preselect the pulsegstmixer instead
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Right, but when xfconf has something, it never even gets to that part. This happens on both my test machines.
<astraljava> knome: Yep, let's see. I still haven't heard from the agent who was supposed to handle that one apt case, so no idea whether I have to come down there earlier, yet.
<mr_pouit> yeah, I didn't want to override user settings
<mr_pouit> xfce4-volumed is autostarted, whereas xfce4-mixer must be launched manually from the menu, so I assume that xfce4-volumed will always see an empty channel the first time
<mr_pouit> (or from the panel plugin, but we don't have it in our default layout anymore)
<mr_pouit> knome: daily/amd64 oversized for a several days
<astraljava> Hmm... but what sets that value for xfconf? I don't know XFCE that well, yet. :)
<mr_pouit> xfce4-mixer when you start it (or change the active card in the ui)
<mr_pouit> (or xfce4-volumed when it starts)
<astraljava> Okay, and now that for new installs we don't have xfce4-mixer launched from the panel plugin, it's going to be volumed. Ok, I'll do a fresh install and see how it works. Oh wait, that change isn't in the images, yet. Damn.
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Would it emulate a fresh install if I manually cleared the xfconf value?
<astraljava> ...or is it even possible?
<astraljava> There seems to be a --reset switch. I'll try. :)
<mr_pouit> yep
<mr_pouit> xfconf-query -r -R -c xfce4-mixer -p /
<mr_pouit> (or something like that)
<astraljava> IT WORKS!
<astraljava> *ahem*
<astraljava> Lionel, I could embrace you now.
<mr_pouit> hihi
<astraljava> Well, lots of time wasted, but at least I know now much better how these sound settings work in XFCE, so a valuable lesson for the future.
<ochosi> hi everyone
<astraljava> o/
<ochosi> hey astraljava 
<ochosi> i saw you investigated our sound troubles a bit :)
<astraljava> I did, but I was too clueless so didn't really make any other progress than educating myself. :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well the fact that we have a half-working implementation is good enough imo
<ochosi> (before it wasn't working at all if you ask me)
<astraljava> Yes, totally. And it seemed to be fully working when I emulated a fresh install.
<ochosi> the only thing i'm kinda worried about with pulse is that it completely steps away from the "channel" concept
<ochosi> meaning: if you have some obscure channel (say: PC speaker) and you want it to be muted, there's no easy way to do that (other than using alsamixer from term)
<ochosi> but yeah, in a way that's a different story
<astraljava> True.
<knome> mr_pouit, is it our mistake, or is it something the ubuntu folks pulled in?
<mr_pouit> no idea, daily-live images seem fine
<mr_pouit> but alternate images gained +20M since beta2 :s
<mr_pouit> ~30M actually
<knome> huho
<knome> could you investigate that a bit to see what it is?
<astraljava> mr_pouit: If I am not mistaken, today at 2100 UTC there's the non-language-pack translations freeze. I haven't heard from the Debian maintainer of abiword in a week, so do you think I should get the translations debdiff in now, so it makes it before the freeze still?
<ochosi> hmm, i think i'll quickly upgrade my test precise and check everything
<mr_pouit> knome: nope, nothing obvious (from comparing the file list)
<knome> :/
<mr_pouit> astraljava: yeah, I think
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Ok, I'll get right on it.
<astraljava> ...after dinner. :)
<mr_pouit> knome: happened between 20120407 and 20120408
<knome> aha
<mr_pouit> mmh, no, 06 and 07
<mr_pouit>  dists/precise/main/binary-i386/: New 1948kB 1262 files 558MB 21s
<mr_pouit> and the next day:
<mr_pouit>  dists/precise/main/binary-i386/: New 1949kB 1262 files 578MB 21s
<knome> huh?
<knome> can you pin it down to something even more specific
<mr_pouit> meh
<mr_pouit> language-pack-de?
<mr_pouit> not sure
<mr_pouit> no, ignore that
<mr_pouit> all language packs actually
<malaverdiere> Good morning
<malaverdiere> I would like to report a bug in the beta
<malaverdiere> I don't see your bug tracker on launchpad though
<mr_pouit> knome: before: 39k for all langpacks (empty, obviously) ; now: 20M
<mr_pouit> so we'll have to make some sacrifices ;-)
<mr_pouit> malaverdiere: hi, we use the same bugtracker as ubuntu, just report your bug against the affected package like you would do for ubuntu (if you're not sure of the package, feel free to ask).
<malaverdiere> I am unable to hibernate
<malaverdiere> which package is that?
<mr_pouit> the "hibernate" menu is greyed out?
<mr_pouit> (hibernation should be disabled by default in precise, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-desktop-privileges/+bug/812394 for more info)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 812394 in Ayatana Design "Disable hibernate option by default" [High,Fix released]
<malaverdiere> it it not greyed out
<malaverdiere> I get "not authorized"
<malaverdiere> I'll look at this bug report
<ochosi> meh, which package do i need for thunars network browsing again?
<ochosi> strange, i do have gvfs installed
<leo-unglaub> hey, did you changes the shortcut for locking the screen?
<leo-unglaub> control + alt + enf is not working in 12.04
<ochosi> don't think we touched that
<ochosi> i can test that a bit later if you like
<leo-unglaub> that would be nice
<malaverdiere> mr_pouit: which bug is the one for the fact that it is not greyed out when disabled?
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: Is that an upgrade from oneiric, or a fresh precise install?
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: dist-upgrade
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: I seem to have xflock4 set on <Control><Alt>Delete and otherwise the same but <Primary> instead of <Control>. No idea why there are two.
<leo-unglaub> xflock4 is set to the values
<leo-unglaub> also the return to the default values didn't helped me
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: Does it work if you try it from terminal?
<leo-unglaub> yes it works
<leo-unglaub> but i just realized that all my other short cuts are also not working
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: now i resettet all xfce settings
<leo-unglaub> and now they work again
<leo-unglaub> but all my custom short cuts are gone
<leo-unglaub> and i idiot forgott to save the strace of the error
<leo-unglaub> damn me
<astraljava> Yeah, that's the sad part. One thing I seem to have noticed that changed from oneiric is that ctrl key register as Primary now. Maybe it had something to do with that.
<astraljava> But I'm not sure, my recollection there is a bit hazy.
<leo-unglaub> ..
<leo-unglaub> ich will setup a old version and upgrade in a vm to retry this
<leo-unglaub> sorry
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1008229#p1008229 seems to suggest the same.
<astraljava> But then that's Arch, so not sure about the versions and stuff.
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Do you have time to check the patch before I'll try and make the debdiff? This is huge. 37MB, sort of sounds like way too big a change to be checked reliably. http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/abiword_translations_update.patch
<astraljava> Hmm... seems like I'd have to restrict the patch somewhat, there are scripts and such inside that directory. Uno momento por favor, I'll finetune this a bit
<astraljava> Ok, so it seems it has to be limited to *.po files only.
<astraljava> Still huge, but not including the scripts etc. I wonder what I'm doing wrong.
<astraljava> mr_pouit: I don't think it's possible. There are string changes that haven't crept their way into the application.
<knome> micahg, ohmy :P
<micahg> knome: what did I do?
<micahg> mr_pouit: the langpacks should have one more respin for -base to get the size down I think
 * astraljava wonders if it's time to apply for a ubuntu membership already
<ochosi> astraljava: i've been wondering about that for a long time, but never got around to do it
<astraljava> I've always thought I'm too off-and-on to deserve the title, but I suppose now with these new positions and much more contribution, I could actually think about it. I'm also contemplating on applying for BuqSquad and BugControl.
<ochosi> mhm, i'm hesitant because it implies spending even more time than i'm spending already
<ochosi> (and i'm not too sure about the benefits apart from being able to blog to planet-ubuntu)
<astraljava> During the precise cycle I for the first time really felt that my contributions to the project really mattered, so that's maybe why I've started to think about the membership.
<astraljava> I don't think I need to do more than what I've done now, cycle-wise.
<astraljava> But yeah, I kinda want to, hence the bug teams.
<astraljava> And besides, I still aim for my masters. You know, Master of the Universe. :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> what masters are you doing?
<astraljava> I'm still on my bachelor's, actually, but while I intend to continue studies after that, yeah, probably will be a MOTU before I get my Master of Economy papers. :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i think my main goal for now is to find someone else to work alongside me on the artwork stuff
<ochosi> (and maybe ultimately replace me)
<astraljava> Why, are you going somewhere? ;)
<ochosi> nah, but i figure after a few more releases i might get tired of rewriting the same theme for every release ;)
<astraljava> Well yeah, I hear ya. It's a bit different than with these ever-changing bits of software. I bet Scott'll change DEs every few releases just to see when I snap. :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> well even if you stick to xfce the road ahead looks quite bumpy
<ochosi> (unless of course the gtk3 port goes unexpectedly fast and smooth)
<Unit193> Hah.
<ochosi> hey Unit193 
<astraljava> True, I haven't really followed that much the 4010 development, but what I hear sounds challenging. :)
 * Unit193 runs
<Unit193> What's up, ochosi?
<ochosi> astraljava: well, xfce is not the problem, it's ubuntu
<ochosi> Unit193: nothing much, i'm happy that this cycle is coming to an end tbh
<ochosi> (although i guess that means we should draft ideas for 12.10 soon)
<Unit193> Ah, wasn't sure if that was a greeting, or a calling.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> the former
<ochosi> a-ha, seÃ±or GridCube is here as well
<Unit193> Well, GTK3 is scheduled for after 4.10, so will it even hit 12.10?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> i don't think that is at all realistic
<GridCube> mr ochosi ?
<GridCube> this be a meeting?
<Unit193> Nope, not unless I'm being quiet.
<ochosi> GridCube: sry, seems i'm in the mood to greet everyone tonight :)
<GridCube> ;)
<GridCube> oh okay
<GridCube> when is the next meeting btw
<Unit193> If I'm silent and there is real talking going on, could be a meeting.
<ochosi> not sure when the next meeting is. knome?
<GridCube> it feels this cycle we had next to none
<ochosi> well no, in the beginning of the cycle we did have a few
<ochosi> but they got less frequent, that is true
<ochosi> seems like the latest update to flashplugin broke its colors
<ochosi> all the faces of people have a blue hue now
<ochosi> and no (easy) way to downgrade it seems
<astraljava> ochosi: Oh, so it wasn't just for my system? Damn...
<ochosi> yeah, pretty nasty if you ask me#
<Unit193> Working on oneiric for me. :D
<ochosi> lucky you
<Unit193> It's because I have adobe-flashplugin from partner repo.
<astraljava> I just read somewhere that it's the last update for flash in linux. 0_o
<astraljava> Adobe is pulling the support. But this might just have been FUD, so take it with a grain of salt.
<ochosi> yes, that's fun, no?
<ochosi> for newer versions of flash you'll have to use chromium
<ochosi> :/
<astraljava> Well, just as long as HTML5 is soon there, then sure I won't miss flash one bit.
<Unit193> astraljava: 11 will be last, supported for a while.
<Unit193> ochosi: Chrome.
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> this is all news to me
<astraljava> Yeah, well, a lot of people were unhappy with Flash, and especially with Apple's decision not to support it, things started to happen.
<GridCube> yes i see, but the problem is that 1) not having flash will make it a gazillion times harder to sell linux to newcommers and 2) html still lags as hell even using modern video cards
<Unit193> 3. Crush the Castle doesn't work with only HTML(5)
<GridCube> ^^^ 
<astraljava> Tough luck. It's still more about open standards. We have to excel in other areas than ridiculous internet games. :D
<Unit193> But this was the orig angry birds, and better too! ;)
<GridCube> astraljava, but thats what people want
<GridCube> people want a computar they can plug in and play games, see videos and internet
<astraljava> I doubt those people would want a linux-powered machine anyhoo, OMG IT DON'T HAVE WAREZ!!!
<astraljava> But yeah, not suitable for this channel. Done with the subject.
<GridCube> astraljava, thats a point i can sell with: Warez? Cracks? dude, sudo apt-get and install free programs for free!!!
 * GridCube seconds
<ochosi> hm, anyway, if any of you figure out a solution for the blue flash video be sure to let me know
<ochosi> i'm off for now, have a nice evening!
<GridCube> ochosi, tried using flash-aid for firefox addon?
<malaverdiere> Hello, I have another bug to report, and I am not sure of the package
<malaverdiere> This time it is about the keyboard layout management
<pleia2> go ahead and describe it, even if no one is around who knows where to report it the devs will read the backlog
<malaverdiere> pleia2: my default system setting is en-us. I need the layout fr-ca
<malaverdiere> I am on Xubuntu 12.04 beta 2
<malaverdiere> I added the keyboard layout switcher to the upper area (where the clock is)
<malaverdiere> And I added the french canadian layout by right-clicking on the layout switcher and choosing Properties
<malaverdiere> The problem is that the setting doesn't stick accross reboots
<pleia2> thanks, I'm not sure where to file that, but I'll see if I can duplicate on my test 12.04 system
<malaverdiere> thanks for looking into it
<ochosi> astraljava: seems that blue faces bug only affects youtube...
<ochosi> malaverdiere: have you tried setting the default layout via settings manager > keyboard > layout?
<malaverdiere> I had done that.
<malaverdiere> I unchecked "use system defaults" and added the Canadian Multilingual layout
<malaverdiere> However, that wasn't picked up by the layout switcher, hence why I set it there too
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> not sure, last time i used the layout-switcher it was pretty buggy (but that was a long time ago)
<malaverdiere> ochosi: is there an alternative? I need to be able to change layout easily
<astraljava> ochosi: Funny, I only tried with youtube. :)
 * malaverdiere writes LaTeX in French
<ochosi> malaverdiere: you can use a keyboard-shortcut
<ochosi> malaverdiere: maybe there's also an indicator, i dunno
<malaverdiere> any clue which package to file the bug against?
<malaverdiere> if I may change topic for a sec... update manager tells me that libreoffice needs to be updated, but is greying them out...
<ochosi> that means that you can't update those packages yet because of e.g. some broken dependencies
<malaverdiere> o.0
<ochosi> could be that libreoffice demands newer versions of other packages as well
<GridCube> !info zenity
<ubottu> zenity (source: zenity): Display graphical dialog boxes from shell scripts. In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 61 kB, installed size 348 kB
<GridCube> mmm not that
<ochosi> but those probably haven't been updated just yet in the repos
<malaverdiere> I was about to say that... mirror seeding I guess
<astraljava> malaverdiere: It's not uncommon for packages to be not in-sync during the dev cycle. Be patient, they will resort the archives in a matter of hours. You can also try another mirror (or the official archive) if yours is lagging behind.
<malaverdiere> astaljava: good to know that its not another bug :)
<malaverdiere> ubottu: zenity is the package I should file the bug against?
<Unit193> ubottu: is a bot
<ubottu> Yes, I can confirm that I am a bot. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots for all information.
<ochosi> malaverdiere: ubottu is just a bot. and no, that's definitely not the package you're looking for ;)
<astraljava> malaverdiere: Also a tip for IRC: tab-complete the nicks, highlighting works much better when it's spot-on instead of almost-there. :)
<malaverdiere> astraljava: ooooo
 * malaverdiere likes that feature
<astraljava> !botsnack | Unit193
<ubottu> Unit193: Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<astraljava> Noooo....
<ochosi> astraljava: you're not highlighted on astaljava? (probably you should add that to your highlight-list)
<astraljava> Bad bot. Bad.
<GridCube> !info im-switch
<ubottu> im-switch (source: im-switch): Input method switch framework. In component main, is optional. Version 1.20ubuntu5 (oneiric), package size 16 kB, installed size 168 kB
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> found it
<GridCube> if imput method switcher is the program you been using malaverdiere 
<malaverdiere> GridCube: ... I thought it would be some XFCE specific thing...
<astraljava> ochosi: I'm annoying like that, I strive for perfection. :D
<GridCube> mmmm it might be
<ochosi> astraljava: what a noble quest :)
<malaverdiere> GridCube: I am using whatever is the default in Xubuntu beta :)
 * malaverdiere is a geek, but has limits ;)
<GridCube> what menu entry did you used?
<malaverdiere> Panel > Add Panel Items > Keyboard Layouts
<GridCube> ooooo
<GridCube> yay, for some reason i cant add it to my panels :D
<malaverdiere> o.0
<malaverdiere> if I may, my wife is calling for dinner...  :D
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-11
<malaverdiere> we'll resume a little later?
<ochosi> yeah, i'll most likely go to sleep
<ochosi> but enjoy dinner!
<GridCube> !info xfce4-xkb-plugin
<ubottu> xfce4-xkb-plugin (source: xfce4-xkb-plugin): xkb layout switch plugin for the Xfce4 panel. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.4.1-1 (oneiric), package size 513 kB, installed size 2476 kB
<ochosi> (and maybe file the bug on bugs.xfce.org)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> malaverdiere, ^^^^^
<astraljava> I've still got 5+ albums (two of which are longer live ones) to go, so I'll be here, waiting, lurking... rocking to Kamelot. :D
<malaverdiere> Thanks for finding the package. I'll file the bug.
<ochosi> astraljava: 5+ albums that you have to listen to before being able to go to sleep?
<astraljava> No, just that I learnt a few hours back that all Kamelot albums are now in Spotify, and once I started to listen from the beginning... I can't stop now. It's been years since I last heard some of these. :D
<ochosi> i dont even know kamelot
<astraljava> It used to be more power metal, nowadays I don't know what you'd call it. Just good metal? :)
<ochosi> right, so that's why i haven't heard of them :)
<astraljava> Yeah not really surprised. :)
<astraljava> If you go to my last.fm page, you probably won't recognize one fifth of the bands there. :)
<astraljava> Oh, scratch that. One twentieth.
<ochosi> "Your musical compatibility with astraljava is Very Low"
<ochosi> our suggested common ground seems to be gary moore
<astraljava> Heh. :) Well, better than nothing. Or Lady GaGa.
<ochosi> yup :)
<ochosi> anyhoo, really taking off now
<ochosi> see y'all
<astraljava> Later, have a good one.
<ochosi> ty, enjoy kamelot
 * malaverdiere can't reproduce the bug :$
<astraljava> Ne Pleure Pas.
 * astraljava hopes he understood what that means, instead of shouting off profenities. :D
<astraljava> profanities*
<malaverdiere> astraljava: I wasn't crying
<astraljava> Ok good. :)
<malaverdiere> ne pleure pas = don't cry
<astraljava> Yeah, there was a french version of the originally English song playing, that's where I connected the dots. :)
<astraljava> malaverdiere: So, what was the bug about?
<malaverdiere> astraljava: the keyboard switcher somehow wasn't picking the layout settings I put
<malaverdiere> After a restart, I had to re-configure it
<malaverdiere> but lo and behold, they were there after this restart
<astraljava> From a user's POV, that's cool. From a dev's... I hate when it happens. :)
<malaverdiere> yup
<malaverdiere> anyways... if I ever reproduce it, I'll file it then
<astraljava> Sure thing, thanks.
<knome> ochosi, Unit193: i don't know when the next meeting is
<Unit193> I don't think I asked, but if you don't know...... How can that be?
<knome> micahg, sorry, that was meant for mr_pouit (damn you having a nick that starts with the same letter)
<knome> Unit193, because it isn't scheduled :P
<knome> i can't always make the meetings if it's at the same time on the same day of the week
<knome> which is why we will need somebody else chairing too
<Unit193> Guess what?
<knome> yes?
<Unit193> Not it.
<knome> huh?
<knome> you mean you won't chair?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Part of a childrens thing, "1, 2, 3, Not it!" :P
<knome> a-ha...
<mr_pouit> micahg: ah ok, good to know, thanks.
<ochosi> hey lionel
<ochosi> how's it going, is there anything left to do before release?
<ochosi> (i feel that my attention is slowly fading, so i thought i'd better ask)
<mr_pouit> hehe
<mr_pouit> nothing urgent I think
<ochosi> right
<mr_pouit> we'll push missing icons to precise-proposed when/if we find more
<ochosi> mhm, sounds good
<mr_pouit> (an upload for only one at this point is a bit overkill)
<ochosi> well, it's certainly possible
<ochosi> i think for Q we need a new icon plan
<astraljava> knome: I can chair, this coming cycle I'm gonna have to pay much more attention (on baby-sitting you guys) anyway.
<ochosi> ah, very nice :)
<astraljava> Ahh... you know, this triaging Xubuntu bugs is hard. Whenever you're looking to make some headway, in storms Lionel and says he's got it all figured out already. :D
<astraljava> Not that I'm complaining... ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> in other news, has anyone seen the redesign of the xfce-site yet? http://www-test.xfce.org/
<ochosi> pretty pretty if you ask me
<astraljava> Haven't, yet. But thanks for the reminder. Off to the supermarket now, though.
<mr_pouit> astraljava: he, no, only for this bug report ;>
<mr_pouit> ochosi: greybird everywhere!
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, yup :)
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> mr_pouit: have you seen this before? http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-taskbar-plugin/
<ochosi> (if so, is there any specific reason this was never packaged for us?)
<ochosi> hmm, so it's not in debian either it seems
<ochosi> hmright, seems it hasn't had a proper release
<ochosi> testing it now
<mr_pouit> yeah, no release = doesn't exist :P
<ochosi> astraljava: try this: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-taskbar-plugin/ (it's pretty much what we talked about a while ago)
<mr_pouit> Has someone tried to install from hd-media recently? Bug #977568 seems to say it's broken because of pae/non-pae.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977568 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu nightly ISOs are missing the PAE kernel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977568
<mr_pouit> knome: (^ feel free to point that to cjwatson, he might know for sure)
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah I kept it in the back of my mind, just haven't had a chance to really bring it in front, so to speak.
<astraljava> ochosi: So, without having a look at it in action, does it provide what you had in mind, or will there still be a need for a new one, or (probably best yet) should we be collaborating with Gearoid, in case [s]he even needs assistance?
<ochosi> i tested it or: am testing it now
<ochosi> it doesn't work perfectly, but does what i think it should
<ochosi> the main issue seems to be app-detection
<ochosi> kalikiana suggested bamf could solve that
<astraljava> Alright, I'm marking it off of my TODO list, then.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, we can cooperate with the guy
<astraljava> Not that I wouldn't have wanted to hack on XFCE, but there are already like a gazillion things for the q cycle. :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Sure thing.
<astraljava> Keep me posted if something needs to be done, but you can't get upstream do it.
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> what is on your list? (just curious)
<mr_pouit> first item is: don't forget to keep it up-to-date
<ochosi> hihi
<astraljava> No, it's "Create a TODO list."
<astraljava> ochosi: I have on my list, in no particular order: gcdmaster gtk3 porting, QA process learning for both Xubuntu and Studio (this is huge, covering everything from docs to ISO tracking testcases to daily testing to whatever), runlevel usage study (for Studio), lowlatency kernel maintenance learning... 
<astraljava> Oh, and the BugSquad / BugControl team membership process. :)
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> !gcdmaster
<ochosi> hm, ubotto doesn't know it
<astraljava> It'd be nice if I got paid for this, so there's work, some pain-in-the-ass-aussie's projects and a couple of other sectors of interest filling up my days. :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Try the other bot.
<ochosi> you mean google?
<astraljava> No, the one that starts with the same letter than the official one. With digits in the nick.
<ochosi> Unit193: !gcdmaster
<ochosi> astraljava: that is not a very responsive bot
<astraljava> I know, but it's hilarious when it speaks up. :D
<ochosi> astraljava: gcdmaster looks pretty outdated. "news" last entry is from sep2006
<astraljava> ochosi: Hence the refresh. :)
<ochosi> a-ha
<astraljava> It was actually dropped already from oneiric.
<ochosi> is it still in wide use?
<astraljava> It would be, had it been up-to-date. Some people still swear by it's name.
<astraljava> its*
<ochosi> hjmm
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-12
<GridCube> knome, i think i could make a guide to alternate installation, like in plain html or something, if i do so, would you like it to go to the xubuntu site?
<GridCube> or i should do it in the ubuntu wiki?
<Unit193> micahg: The server hosting them (the bots) went down, it should be back in time.
<micahg> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> micahg: Did you really need it tonight?
<micahg> no, just thought itance was a one-off occur
<astraljava> Was arandr installed by default in Xubuntu? I don't have a session running anywhere right now.
<Unit193> I don't have it, and I don't remember purging it.
<micahg> nope
<astraljava> Ok, thanks!
<micahg> astraljava: studio installs it by default :)
<astraljava> micahg: I noticed, that's why I asked cause I wasn't sure whether it came from here or some other outer space. :)
<micahg> astraljava: apt-cache show arandr | grep Task
<astraljava> micahg: Oh right, I forgot there was that info right there. Thanks for the reminder!
<knome> astraljava, you going to FT tonight?
<astraljava> knome: Nope, didn't have to come to Helsinki earlier, so I'm arriving on Sunday afternoon.
<knome> ok :)
<astraljava> Might get the apartment, though. Will hopefully hear the confirmation this week, still.
 * knome was unsure of attending too
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> good luck! :)
<astraljava> Let's go in May, then. :)
<astraljava> Thanks.
<knome> sure! :)
<knome> maybe we can get edii to join us, too
<ochosi> knome: with "us" you mean xubuntu or just you guys who like to hang out in .fi?
<knome> ochosi, me and astraljava to join an event in helsinki in may :)
<knome> well, tbe, every month :P
<ochosi> right
<knome> http://free-thursday.pieni.net/
<madnick> If it'd had been tomorrow I could be there :P
<knome> :)
<knome> next month then? ;)
<madnick> I wish I had that much money to spend on trips :P
<knome> ;)
<knome> viking line is much cheaper ! :P
<madnick> maybe, but my friend wont be around to pay then :P
<knome> :P
 * knome is having some barbÃ£r
<knome> damn this is good beer
<madnick> 8% beer
<madnick> Thats quite a lot
<knome> yup, that
<knome> but it's sweetened with honey.. mmm...
<madnick> :>
<knome> 16:42  pitti: tgardner: sabdfl approved 750 MB USB media next cycle
<knome> that might be one of the things making us oversize
<knome> or, at least, will be in the 12.10 cycle
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey, how's it going?
<leo-unglaub> bad, bad and bad again ...
<knome> ? :P
<ochosi> what's up? too much work?
<leo-unglaub> sadly yes
<ochosi> meh
<knome> leo-unglaub, i heard you had problems with keyboard shortcuts. did you get to fix that?
<leo-unglaub> knome: yes is did via restoring the defaults...
<knome> leo-unglaub, ok
<leo-unglaub> but sadly i did that bvefore i figured out what the real error was...
<ochosi> i think mr_pouit said that it's a problem when upgrading
<ochosi> and not really avoidable for now
<knome> ochosi, he said there's a problem with shortcuts with ctrl, but that's it
<ochosi> yes, but that was upgrade-specific
<leo-unglaub> yes
<knome> yes, but i thought you were referring to "when upgrading"
<leo-unglaub> only after an upgrade
<ochosi> knome: i mostly mentioned that because i remembered that leo-unglaub upgraded ;)
<knome> ;)
<knome> well yeah, i also had that after upgrade
<leo-unglaub> knome: according to someone here it also happens for arch users
<knome> the ctrl-keys issue, or the all keys issue?
<leo-unglaub> the ctrl issue
<leo-unglaub> but there where some other strange issues after upgrading
<leo-unglaub> but i am soo fucked up in work here so i had no time reporting them all..
<leo-unglaub> *shame on me*
<ochosi> knome: did you ever ask sean davis to join the testing team?
<GridCube> when is the next (and i presume last) meeting before the final release?
<knome> ochosi, no
<knome> GridCube, no idea. is there something you'd like to go through?
<knome> GridCube, btw, writing the article on installing alternate sounds good. feel free to start a draft in xubuntu.org :)
<GridCube> :D ok
<GridCube> knome: well, mostly to keep up to date info about how things are goind
<GridCube> stuff we can link people too so they can blog or whatever about whats gonna happen in this release
<knome> there's nothing new since a long time, since we've past all freezes
<GridCube> also there was a rumor about  PAE kernels being droped for 12.10 in mainbuntu
<ochosi> i never really understood the whole PAE kernel story
<ochosi> could anybody enlighten me?
<knome> GridCube, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html tells a lot
<micahg> GridCube: yes, that most likely will happen
<knome> ochosi, not all computers support PAE
<micahg> anyone with PAE should stay on 12.04 until 2017
<micahg> oops
<micahg> I mean without on i386 :)
<GridCube> ochosi: PAE kernels allows non amd 64 installs to use more than i386  ram limit, that is about 3.8gb
<knome> yes, but otoh, if you don't have PAE-supporting kernel, you're not able to boot at all
<GridCube> most microprocesors today are PAE enabled, like most of them are amd64 already, but installing a PAE kernel allows you to install an i386 install and it will still use the whole amounts of ram your heart happens to desire
<GridCube> forced PAE means that old microprocesors, like previous to PIV, wont probably work
<GridCube> micahg: if that happens then xubuntu wont target aging computers anymore?
<knome> GridCube, xubuntu will use non-pae on i386 on precise
<micahg> GridCube: it can still target aging computers :)
<GridCube> knome: im talking about 12.10
<knome> GridCube, unknown...
<knome> GridCube, as long as non-pae is in main, we probably use it
<GridCube> but... micahg is saying that that wont probably be the case...
<knome> we have to rethink that in Q cycle
<knome> we don't have the workforce to maintain the non-pae kernel ourself
<GridCube> welp
<GridCube> that was something i wanted to talk on a meeting :P
<ochosi> well, lucky we're all here :)
<GridCube> im worried about our market target
<GridCube> XD
<ochosi> tbh that is one thing about meetings: people often aren't there and it feels more hasty
<micahg> there are still 10+ year old computers with PAE support
<GridCube> but i guess thats a huge problem to lubuntu as well
<knome> it's probably more of a problem to lubuntu
<ochosi> the thing is: (and this has been a problem for a while) what is the target group of xubuntu?
<GridCube> exactly
<ochosi> it's not extremely lightweight anymore, and imo it shouldn't necessarily be
<ochosi> maybe we should redefine that for Q
<GridCube> i think that too
<ochosi> or at least make it even more explicit
<GridCube> with all the unity people running around
<GridCube> xubuntu should target traditional desktop users and no more
<ochosi> the whole idea of different app-sets on install-time was to give people with less resources one more option
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<ochosi> it should be the one xfce distro where everything looks nice and works smoothly
<ochosi> as in: not do what fedora does and ship stuff as vanilla as possible
<GridCube> i think that people wanting an usable desktop, for example for an office, they should know that xubuntu IS the option :D
<martinphone> no, they will turn to windows
<martinphone> as most of them do
<GridCube> but w8 looks like unity aswell
<ochosi> oh well, let's not dive into this too much... i think it's important to know who we want to target, whether people accept the offer or not is up to them
<GridCube> yes
<ochosi> one thing we could investigate for Q is a backup tool
<ochosi> many desktop-users need that
<ochosi> (knome, i hope you're taking notes ;) )
<ochosi> something like deja-dup
<GridCube> ive used it, and it did the work
<knome> ochosi, not
<knome> ochosi, but there will be logs
<ochosi> i like it because it's both for offline and online backups
<GridCube> also a webcam program
<GridCube> like cheese
<ochosi> knome: what about scheduling two meetings: one before the release ("last doubts") one after the release ("party and looking ahead")?
<ochosi> GridCube: yeah maybe, i think it'd be good to rethink our appset in general
<knome> ochosi, worksforme
<ochosi> knome: at least by labelling the meetings like that it's no tragedy if noone shows up for the last meeting, because there might not be last doubts
<GridCube> all n[et|ote]books come with cameras, why dont ship anything for them
<ochosi> GridCube: if you have energy for that now you could start a wikipage with gathering thoughts for Q and put that there
<GridCube> ochosi: yes, i think i can do that
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> hmm, i need someone with unity installed
<GridCube> ochosi: i can get you one :P
<ochosi> GridCube: that'd be great. i'm considering unity-support for our themes
<GridCube> welp, no one answers 
<ochosi> no problem, ping me whenever someone shows up
<ochosi> i can meanwhile push the theme changes to a branch so that people can start testing it
<GridCube> ochosi: bazhang uses unity
<ochosi> hey bazhang 
<carnau> ochosi
<leo-unglaub> so, i am on my way home
<ochosi> would you mind testing a gtk-theme for me?
<bazhang> hi ochosi 
<leo-unglaub> i worked 2 days without sleep
<leo-unglaub> now i am going to bed
<GridCube> ochosi: carnau also uses Unity
<GridCube> :D
<bazhang> can it wait for a few? I'm heading off to bed soon
<carnau> yes, I'm on 12.04
<ochosi> bazhang: sure, no hurry, ping me whenever
<bazhang> ok cool
<knome> time to cook food
<GridCube> it would be really weird to cook not food, but ok
<leo-unglaub> are there no pizza delivery companys in cour country?
<ochosi> carnau: do you feel like testing the theme with unity?
<carnau> yes, sure
<ochosi> if not, no problem, i'll just push it and hopefully someone gets around to testing it at some point :)
<carnau> ochosi, provide link
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: another upgrade-problem i know think of is that after the dist-upgrade the default font was not ubuntu anymore
<leo-unglaub> it was samething hard readable
<ochosi> carnau: sure, just one sec, i need to decide whether to do the window-buttons as well. but i guess for now i'll just do the panel
<carnau> ok, take your time :)
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: the default font never was ubuntu, it's droid sans
<leo-unglaub> ah, okay. that expÃlains why it was changed
<ochosi> carnau: grab it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/unity
<ochosi> carnau: do you need help with installing the theme?
<ochosi> (btw, the important thing would be the unity-panel)
<carnau> ochosi, don't think so
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> a screenshot of your test would be nice, so that i know what needs tweaking (e.g. gtk3 indicators)
<carnau> ochosi, ok, give me 5 min
<carnau> or less :)
<ochosi> sure :)
<raevol> are any changes being made to how desktop notifications work in 12.04?
<carnau> ochosi, http://i40.tinypic.com/25a4yg3.png
<ochosi> carnau: are you sure you set Greybird as your theme? that looks like adwaita...
<ochosi> raevol: nope
<carnau> ochosi, ouch :_(
<ochosi> np
<carnau> ochosi, it goes in the ~/.themes folder?
<carnau> i think so, but it not appears in the menu
<ochosi> yes, it goes into the .themes folder
<ochosi> strange, i saw bluebird used on webupd8 with unity, so i thought that would work...
<carnau> it doesn't :_(
<ochosi> hm, sorry, since i never used unity i have no clue how to help here...
<ochosi> but since there's a gtk3 version of greybird it should work
<carnau> ochosi, i'm trying it
<carnau> ochosi, not shows in the menu after reloading user, and placing it in /usr/share/themes
<ochosi> carnau: strange strange, i'll try to investigate tomorrow and ping you as soon as i have something
<carnau> ok!
<carnau> ochosi, I can see it with metacity-theme-viewer
<carnau> looks like it's not defined where it has to be. Well, we'll see tomorrow :)
<carnau> bye!
<carnau> ochosi, ping
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-13
<knome> pleia2, now that you are there though...
<knome> pleia2, log in and see this: http://xubuntu.org/irc
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: do you think the resizing-article is ready, btw ?
<pleia2-web> pretty :)
<knome> good, so do you think it's ready to publish?
<pleia2> yep
<knome> ok, i'll do that
<knome> we might want to add a short paragraph about the channel though...
<pleia2> ah, yeah, about it's help and on-topic nature
<pleia2> and something about how people should just ask their question, be patient about a response
<knome> refresh the page
<knome> should i bold some stuff?
<Unit193> Bold all the thingss!!!
<pleia2> s/you do not need to ask to ask your question/please feel free to go ahead and ask your question
<knome> changed, and bolded a few things
<knome> better
<knome> ?
<pleia2> good :)
 * knome is wondering if we should change the nick
<knome> to know which guys come from livecd (xubuntu...) and which from the website
<knome> xubuntuw... ?
<knome> i mean, people can just change their nick anyway :)
<pleia2> we can leave it
<knome> k
<knome> i was thinking if this brings a lot of trolls or sth
<knome> we can pinpoint it
<knome> if it's the live cd or the website
<knome> but maybe i'm thinking about it too much ;)
<knome> it's published now
<knome> Unit193, ^ 
<pleia2> yay :)
<knome> now to link that from the help-page
<Unit193> please wait for a respond patiently    response.
<Unit193> That is to say, s/respond/response/
<knome> ;)
<knome> that's right, fixed
<knome> astraljava, ?
 * astraljava emerges as a mist through loose corners of the channel, and addresses the entity that summoned him
<astraljava> Yyyeesss, maaster?
<knome> :F
<knome> anything planned for 21st?
<knome> it's saturday in a week
<astraljava> Yeah, we're off to this friend couple's place, the guy has the same birthday than me (22nd), and the girl had it less than a month ago, so it's a triple celebration. :)
<astraljava> Why?
<knome> awwwh, congrats
<knome> it's the record store day
<knome> and i'm so going.
<astraljava> What's that again?
<knome> exclusive albums/singles released and sold only on the brick-and-mortar stores
<knome> well, later elsewhere too but...
<knome> maybe not for a cheap price :)=
<astraljava> Well I doubt I have any money for shopping, but I'll gladly tag along.
<knome> mmh. :)
<knome> levykauppa x opens at 11.
<knome> bbl.
<astraljava> knome: Nooo!
<astraljava> You be back here, now.
 * astraljava works his magic
<astraljava> Well, if others could chime in. I see very few changes done during this last week, only one upload by Lionel. It's a good sign, of course, at this stage of the cycle. However, if you know of anything important that hasn't been discussed here on this channel, and hasn't landed by means of an upload, please speak up so it gets notified for the release team. Otherwise I'll send a very toned-down mail for
<astraljava> the meeting. :)
<ochosi> knome: have you published the article already?
<ochosi> knome: if no, that's good, because it's not ready yet. unless you have added screenshots and a section for resizing via window-menu
<ochosi> carnau: pong
<carnau> ochosi, http://i40.tinypic.com/2d6s4yo.png
<carnau> is it your theme?
<carnau> *is this
<ochosi> yup, that looks like it :)
<ochosi> thanks carnau 
<ochosi> so, what went wrong?
<ochosi> (it doesn't look too bad, i think i have to tune down the top panel though, it's supposed to be far darker)
<carnau> I've not used the default menu, you can see that the theme combobox it's empty
<ochosi> mhm, strange though that the theme doesn't show up
<carnau> I've used an app called MyUnity, to select it
<ochosi> ah ok
<carnau> it's like gnome-tweak-tool
<ochosi> well i'll have to investigate that a bit more then i guess
<ochosi> could you try one more thing for me?
<carnau> sure
<ochosi> please maximize one window, then the window-buttons should move to the top bar
<ochosi> and take a screener
<ochosi> (i think it'll look bad, but i wanna know for sure ;) )
<carnau> wait
<ochosi> sure, i'll be back in 10min
<carnau> ochosi, http://i40.tinypic.com/15vxow.png
<ochosi> carnau: oh right, that's not too bad
<ochosi> carnau: i'll try to fine-tune the background of the panel a bit more and if you could in a bit git pull again?
<carnau> ochosi,  i'll be back at 14:00pm, have a work meeting.
<ochosi> sure, thanks for now!
<carnau> maybe 14:30, not sure. I'll do it later if u want :)
<carnau> my pleasure
<ochosi> sure, just ping me when you're back
<carnau> ok
<ochosi> bazhang: ping
<carnau> ochosi, ping
<ochosi> carnau: pong
<ochosi> i pushed a few changes to the repo
<ochosi> if you could please update your install
<ochosi> either via git or just by using the same download-link i posted before
<carnau> remember me the link
<ochosi> it should always give you the most recent version
<ochosi> i tuned the panel-color and please test an indicator, whether they look the same as normal menus
<carnau> got it
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> sry, i have a short meeting
<ochosi> i'll be back in ~30min
<carnau> np
<carnau> maximized buttons are the same, anyway
<carnau> those are showed in the unity top panel
<ochosi> yes, i didn't work on those yet
<ochosi> they kinda look ok to me, i'm not sure i'll change them
<ochosi> how's the panel?
<ochosi> it should be darker now
<carnau> a little bit, i think
<carnau> can't make a screen when the rhythmbox indicator appears
<ochosi> unless you have a timer :)
<ochosi> ok, post the link whenever, i'll be right back
<carnau> ok, it's not in the same color!
<carnau> grrrr, i hate my bad english :p
<carnau> I'll make it
<ochosi> hihi, thanks
<carnau> ochosi,  http://i40.tinypic.com/znmufo.png
<carnau> lunch time!
<ochosi> carnau: are you sure you updated the theme? it looks like the panel colour didn't change at all...
<ochosi> carnau: and bon appÃ©tit
<carnau> ochosi, This is shimmerproject-Greybird-v0.7.1-3-g41d88d0 http://i41.tinypic.com/zlq2o8.png
<carnau> I think tinypic adds some bright to the images, in my monitor the panel looks darker.
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> it seems like you have the correct version (the commit-number matches)
<ochosi> but i still changes quite a bit of the colors in the unity.css file
<ochosi> changed
<ochosi> would you mind restarting your session?
<ochosi> (maybe the changes don't get applied otherwise)
<ochosi> knome: ok, i updated the post and added another method. will take some screenshots now and then i'll submit it for review
<carnau> this is my unity.css http://pastebin.com/NMrXPgBD
<ochosi> yeah, that's the correct one
<carnau> restarting...
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: i can't seem to upload images to wordpress, that sucks a bit :(
<carnau> ochosi, http://i.imgur.com/sr6yS.png
<carnau> after restart
<ochosi> that's more like it
<ochosi> and the indicators look like menus?
<carnau> what indicators?
<ochosi> e.g. clicking the envelope (aka messaging-menu indicator), does that show a menu that looks like all other menus in applications?
<carnau> same colour, yes
<ochosi> ok, good
<ochosi> then the only thing left are the window-buttons for maximized applications i guess
<ochosi> or do they work?
<carnau> no, not work. It uses the same as it came with the dash
<carnau> *the same buttons that when you click the menu button
<ochosi> menu-button == dash button?
<carnau> oh, they changed
<carnau> yes, dash button
<ochosi> ok, i think i need a screenshot to understand... :)
<carnau> sure
<carnau> ochosi, 1 - Dash button, 2 - Firefox, 3 - Messaging menu http://imgur.com/wSDi9 
<ochosi> ok, thanks, that looks pretty ok
<ochosi> i couldn't see the window-buttons (close,max,min) in your earlier screenshot of xchat
<ochosi> was that a bug or expected?
<carnau> expected
<carnau> i can see it well
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> maybe i didn't look close enough
<ochosi> so it seems that everything works approximately as expected?
<carnau> i think so, at least everything that I tested
<ochosi> btw, nr.2 in your last screenshot was taken before the panel-changes, right?
<carnau> this is how looks like if I hover the top panel, when the buttons appear, if I not hover it, there aren't buttons.
<carnau> top panel = panel-menu
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> no, i meant the background color of the panel
<ochosi> in nr.2 the color is a lot brighter again, like before i changed it
<ochosi> no.2 looks like this: http://i41.tinypic.com/zlq2o8.png
<carnau> ah yes, it was taken of an old screen
<ochosi> not like this: http://i.imgur.com/sr6yS.png
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> fine, then i think i can merge the branch
<ochosi> it'll get backported to precise in -proposed
<carnau> colour now it's like 1 or 3
<carnau> remember that you can't select it in the menu
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> that's the only issue left
<ochosi> it doesn't even appear there, right?
<carnau> no :_(
<ochosi> ok, i think i see why
<ochosi> i'll quickly fix this and ping you again once it's pushed
<carnau> if i select it in the myunity menu, it shows empty in the default appearance menu
<carnau> sure :)
<ochosi> carnau: done. please try again :)
<carnau> ok
<carnau> no, it's not showed
<carnau> ochosi, is there any log of this actions?
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> you might have to restart your session again though
<carnau> ok
<carnau> ochosi, no luck
<knome> ochosi, i know (re: upload), just upload to wherever
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> carnau: so you have an index.theme file in the Greybird-folder now, right?
<ochosi> carnau: hm, ok, maybe the problem is that the icon-theme isn't installed and that the theme is called solely "Greybird" and your folder is maybe called differently
<ochosi> knome: still, that's pretty annoying...
<ochosi> knome: or was that what we talked about before?
<ochosi> carnau: sry, i gotta go now
<ochosi> carnau: i'll be back tomorrow
<carnau> ochosi, yes i have it. not was in the previous versions.
<carnau> ok, i don't know if i will be here.
<carnau> monday
<knome> ochosi, what?
<carnau> ochosi, good weekend :)
<knome> ochosi, yeah, it's the problem with xubuntu-team members only being contributors
<ochosi> carnau: ok, to you too (monday sounds fine)
<knome> maybe we should mention in the release notes that the keyboard shortcuts might be broken for some
<astraljava> knome: You could, I was a tad puzzled with them with my upgraded Xubuntu on the laptop, but I returned it so soon after the upgrade that I didn't pay much attention.
<knome> yeah
<knome> i was puzzled too
<knome> too bad the fix is "revert to defaults and add custom shortcuts again" :(
<astraljava> knome: They are stored somewhere in a file, right? Maybe a script that seds the change from <Control> to <Primary>?
<knome> astraljava, that's the other problem
<knome> astraljava, but my shortcuts were borked even if i didn't use <Control>
<astraljava> knome: Oh? That I didn't know.
<knome> yeah
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: can you confirm if we are still oversized on any image?
<knome> do we still have this:  For the desktop images, installing from the CD menu is failing, however, allowing the CD to spin until it stops at âtry Xubuntuâ, âInstall Xubuntuâ works  (from alpha 2) ??
<knome> or this:  For some live sessions, the network-manager indicator might be hidden. Running nm-connection-editor allows you to access the network management interface.  (from beta 1) ??
<astraljava> precise-desktop-i386.iso        13-Apr-2012 10:17  676M
<astraljava> precise-desktop-amd64.iso       13-Apr-2012 10:16  691M
<astraljava> Way under.
<Unit193> Heh, alt seems larger. :P
<astraljava> Strangely they are.
<knome> larger, but is it oversized? :P
<knome> does this look good for the release notes:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_notes/1204-window-shortcuts.png  ==
<knome> ??
<knome> plus, i think i'm going to add the app shortcut keys to the right hand side
<knome> with app icons
<leo-unglaub> just updated my website...now with the xubuntu countdown banner on the right site :)
<leo-unglaub> http://www.leo-unglaub.net/about-me.html
<knome> pleia2, ?
<pleia2> hey
<knome> you know what?
<pleia2> nope
<knome> there's some planned goodness at http://xubuntu.org/?p=794&preview=true
<pleia2> ooh, very spiffy
<knome> isn't it!
<knome> i'm wondering if the maximize+icons analogy work
<knome> i don't want to create new icons just for this so i ripped some off the DMZ cursors ;)
<knome> ochosi, ^
<knome> pleia2, btw, feel free to add anything you see fit
<knome> just don't break the html on the icons ;))
<pleia2> I'll be careful :)
<knome> (well that isn't hard, just don't touch them)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> mmh, well it's good to know if WP will break those with normal editing
<knome> there's some quirks you need to know not to break inline styles set in the html mode...
<knome> but we can just fix that just before release anyway, and then never touch it again ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> or we can spend some time in writing a plugin that provides a shortcode to print such icon-text-combinations, if we'd need that all the time :P
<knome> damn http://xubuntu.org/news/11-10-release/ looks dry compared to the new one :D
<pleia2> progress!
<knome> yeah
<knome> we still need a download-button :)
<knome> pleia2, bleh, you still there?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i half-accidentally removed the high-res screenshots from the site while working with the screenshots page
<knome> we can use the gallery shortcode and it'll list any images attached to that page - or any other page
<knome> see http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=534&preview=true
<knome> that's dynamically created
<pleia2> don't do that
<pleia2> :)
<knome> we probably want a few words there to make it not look so desolate
<knome> why don't ?
<knome> or are you just referring to removing shots :P
<pleia2> yeah that
<knome> (they're gone already! :P)
<knome> i didn't notice that the ones in the front page weren't high-res too :(
<knome> not too bad though, we need to update the screenies for precise anyway :)
<pleia2> I still have them all, shall I upload?
<knome> umm, if you can send them to me by email, i could fix 'em all
<pleia2> ok
<knome> i need to see if just uploading breaks things
<knome> (shouldn't, but want to make sure it really doesn't)
<pleia2> sent
<knome> thanks
<knome> oh, btw, you have my old email addy
<knome> not that it matters *much*, but the current is pasi@shimmerproject.org
<pleia2> ah, right
<pleia2> both in addressbook, always choose the wrong one ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome> just del the old one then :)
<knome> or are you keeping backlogs of address books too :)
<pleia2> haha, no, it's just gmail which autosaves everything
<knome> awwh :)
<knome> oh noes
<knome> now i know why the images were not high-res
<knome> everything is not working correctly
<knome> there was some glitch with the plugin in the canonical server, works everywhere else :/
<pleia2> :(
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/oneiric_05.png seems to be working
<knome> yeah, that's not on the frontpage
<pleia2> oh, x2.png and such are low-res
<pleia2> originally
<knome> yup
<knome> :|
<knome> i need to fix this, but i think that's going to be after precise release
<knome> no, actually, there IS a bug in the code
<knome> wooo
<pleia2> why are the thumbnails square? :)
<knome> because i told them to be
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> boo square
<knome> heh, well, i think we can migrate to 600px wide "large" size too
<knome> lemme fix that
<pleia2> ok
<knome> there we go
<knome> wait, what...
<knome> the plugin works on yet another host
<knome> weeeeeeeird
<pleia2> heh
 * knome checks wp versions
<knome> no, they match
<knome> zomg
<knome> :P
<pleia2> computers++
<knome> haha, yeah
<knome> bleh.
<knome> stupid mistake.
<knome> stupid stupid mistake
<knome> seems like that was a php version difference that made it work on other hosts but not the other
<pleia2> doh
<knome> yup...
<astraljava> Want me to link to a page that talks about php, and why it's a stupid, stupid mistake right from the get-go?
<astraljava> ;)
<knome> astraljava, i don't
<astraljava> Surprised that you don't.
<pleia2> lol :P
<knome> there was a good article telling why php doesn't suck as hard as many people think, though
<knome> but you wouldn't understand
<knome> ahhh, perrrfect
<astraljava> knome: I don't really have that much experience on the language to argue either way.
<astraljava> But I did find funny some of the points the author made.
<knome> well, it's not perfect
<astraljava> I think the most important thing for me as a newbie on the language will be the fact that it's just not predictable, and not in line with most of the other programming languages.
<knome> it's reasonably predictable if you use it right, but i definitely see your point...
<astraljava> Weird returns values, inconsistent function naming, unpredictable behaviour with calling missing methods/class members etc.
<knome> it's getting better :)
<astraljava> Good to hear, cause it's becoming practically impossible to avoid the usage of it. :)
<knome> mmh. i didn't say it's getting great though ;)
<knome> but i think generally, php is much better than many people tell you it is
<knome> vocal minority, and stuff
<knome> and elitist geeks
 * knome is waiting for a comment from a php-hater in this channel
<knome> :P
<knome> feel it coming
<astraljava> Probably head exploded, needs to glue the pieces back together before response-capability restored.
<knome> something like that
<knome> hrm, well made theme
<knome> where do i control those links again... ;)
<knome> sweet. one more thing no-one will ever notice :)
<pleia2> perl4evar
<knome> ochosi, your blog article is published
<knome> pleia2, ^
<pleia2> (the website at work is all done in mason, it's so...something)
<knome> :F
<knome> perl is so scary
<pleia2> we still use it a ton in systems administration stuff
<knome> something like C++ isn't scary, becuase i don't know it. i just don't care. but perl is scary, because i've learnt it a bit
<pleia2> want to tweet, or shall I?
<knome> ah, that
<knome> i can
<pleia2> k
<knome> done
<astraljava> knome: There's something about perl in that phase, I've reached it too. It sort of stops me from getting over that barrier, too.
<knome> astraljava, yeah. urggggghghh
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-14
<ochosi> knome: nice one on the window-shortcuts!
<ochosi> knome: and meh on the article, i wanted the screenshots to be inline... but anyway, a good reason to add me to the -web team :)
<ochosi> knome: i'm also thinking whether stuff like the shortcuts montage should go into ubiquity
<ochosi> (especially the app-shortcuts could've easily been added there to the existing pages)
<ochosi> knome: "stick window" should probably be explained (=="show window on all workspaces"), otherwise it could be confused with "always on top"
<loppy> hello?
<loppy> baizon? where are you?
<knome> ochosi, i tried to add them inline, but they didn't align very well
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-15
<micahg> knome: not oversized
<ochosi> knome: ok, well thanks for publishing it anyway
<ochosi> knome: should we probably enable comments on blog posts?
<GridCube> i think we should, at least moderated ones
<ochosi> hmyeah, that's what i'd suggest as well
<ochosi> or even try without moderation (can be a lot of work), but spam-control instead
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> that too
<pleia2> I don't really care for comments on official news for projects, feels unprofessional
<pleia2> people give us feedback on these articles on twitter and g+ already
<GridCube> but web2.0, etc...
<pleia2> we allow moderated comments on fridge.ubuntu.com, it's awful
<pleia2> pretty much all junk, spam, support requests and "I hate unity!"
<pleia2> so I'm not all that thrilled with adding another site to my moderation list, the comments on twitter and g+ are good
<pleia2> g+ has 7 comments from the most recent post :)
<jussi> doesnt everyone hate unity?
<pleia2> mostly just the noisy people who think it's appropriate to complain about it on news articles
<ochosi> pleia2: mkay, that's a valid concern
<jussi> pleia2: sorry, forgot the ":P"
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> jussi: That's alright, everyone hates KDE too.
<Unit193> Oh wait.... ;)
<ochosi> but: everyone loves Xfce <3
<astraljava> That won't hit anymore, he's a mac user nowadays.
<Unit193> Dowh, I didn't know that....
<astraljava> Hihihi.
<astraljava> Well he isn't really, just has one
<astraljava> Doesn't know how to use it.
<astraljava> I know, I'm mean.
<Unit193> Hah, I am more in person, because you can detect I'm almost joking better. (Also, wrong channel)
<astraljava> True.
<knome> i don't have strong feelings about comments, but it's so much easier not to allow them anyway
<GridCube> yay! today image is flawless
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> knome, i took all the screenshots for the how to install using alternate
<GridCube> ... they are quite a lot
<knome> GridCube, heh, no problem. we probably do not need every step, or do you think we do?
<knome> if we do, it might make sense to push that tutorial to help.ubuntu.com
<GridCube> well.. no, they are most pretty obvious, but i say, the more the better :P
<GridCube> and i kindda did the whole steps for manual partitioning, without them the number of screenshots reduces to half
<GridCube> :P
<sean-w> I am unable to boot to x unless I use boot to recovery and then continue to bypass plymouth in beta 2
<GridCube> sean-w, did you did something for this to happen?
<GridCube> like installing some program?
<sean-w> GridCube, No, fresh install
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> weird, its an upgrade?
<sean-w> GridCube, I get a kind of wired screen taring, odd colored lines
<GridCube> mmm i don't really know
<GridCube> what are your specs?
<sean-w> GridCube, I had to use the alt install to even install it. The desktop version 'would not advance grathly past the keyboard = adaptive tech tools 
<GridCube> mmm
<sean-w> GPU is a GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi
<sean-w> AMD CPU with 16 GB of RAM
<GridCube> sean-w, mmmmhm
<GridCube> sorry but i dont really know
<GridCube> you should wait for smarter people
<knome> pleia2, ?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-08
<pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the Xubuntu download page
<pjotr> Perhaps it's a good idea to present the LTS version as the primary eye-catching download option. Not as the "mere" second. So that beginners with Xubuntu, will usually pick the LTS.
<pjotr> Reason: as we know, starting with Raring, support for intermediate ("standard") releases will be halved to nine months.
<pjotr> As Mark Shuttleworth said: "Our working assumption is that the latest interim release is used by folks who will be involved, even if tangentially, in the making of Ubuntu, and LTS releases will be used by those who purely consume it." http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1246
<pjotr> What do you think?
<knome> pjotr, it's probably something we should consider before adding the R release links on the download page
<knome> pjotr, but i think the question is much broader than simply in what order the download page is in
<pjotr> knome: can you explain what you mean by broader?
<knome> i don't think LTS and normal releases currently have too much differences
<knome> both in 1) the new features we are pushing in (though we definitely take more care with LTS releases to make sure nothing gets broken)
<knome> and 2) how stable LTS/normal releases are
<knome> normal xubuntu releases have generally been almost (if not) as stable as LTS releases
<pjotr> yes, even intermediate Xubuntu versions are very stable, in my experience. Fine pieces of work. :-)
<pjotr> But there's also the support period
<pjotr> for a beginner, it's not nice to have to upgrade very soon
<knome> in my opinion, it always made sense to hop to the next normal release as soon as it was out anyway
<knome> (if you had a normal version installed in the first place)
<knome> i mean, i don't think the situation changes much in that respect
<knome> the question is if we want to go much more "wild" with the normal releases or not
<knome> if the normal releases will continue being as stable as they are now, the situation seems really similar to what it is now
<knome> we should simply tell people on normal releases to upgrade a bit quicker, but that's it
<knome> pjotr, i've added the item on the meeting agenda (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings) feel free to add any questions you think should be gone through (though i think we pretty much need to resolve those ones in there first before thinking much else)
<knome> the meeting is after release, yeah, but we'll just take action really quickly.:)
<knome> or do a temporary decision before the actual meeting.
<pjotr> knome: thanks. I'll try to attend the meeting. :-)
<knome> np
<knome> thanks for bringing it up, i think it's a question worth thinking well
<baizon> hi, i got a problem... http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-articles-themes gives me "Proxy Error" ... "Reason: Error reading from remote server"
<pleia2> baizon: I just had IS fix it a few minutes ago, it should be ok
<baizon> indeed, thank you
<pleia2> there is someone else working on some stuff to, so I just asked him to move his content over
<knome> baizon, if there's something that neither of you are familiar with, i encourage you to find out, but if you can't, just leave a clear sign where you'd need some input, and i'll try to work it out when we review
<knome> pleia2, libreoffice says our community article is at 1000 chars now
<knome> pleia2, and that's without saying anything specific
<knome> i wonder if it's with or without spaces
<knome> testing is ~3300
<knome> (with spaces)
<knome> hmm, i wonder if my mail to -devel got thourh
<knome> ...
<knome> through
<knome> \o/
<knome> it did
<knome> i don't mind it being lost of my sent items
<Noskcaj> pleia2, what still needs doing for the magazine article on testing? other than getting screenshots
<pleia2> Noskcaj: I'd give links to info about each tool
<pleia2> and you can just email me the screenshots (please do them with default theme so all our screenshots look similar :))
<Noskcaj> pleia2, i've changed theme too much. is there someone else who can get the screenshots?
<pleia2> Noskcaj: maybe create a new user and just have it load up defaults?
<pleia2> if not I'll see what I can do
<pleia2> could also just fire it up in a VM if you have any left over from testing :)
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll do that when i'm back from school
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-09
<bluesabre> hey micahg, I've had very limited connectivity lately
<bluesabre> I just release Catfish 0.6.3: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/0.6/0.6.3
<bluesabre> In 0.6.2, I incorporated the patches that made the makefile install .py files correctly, and fixed the additional bugs that scott found with the packaging
<bluesabre> So if you can get the opportunity, please upload the latest version to raring?  :-)
<bluesabre> It should work fairly easily now
<bluesabre> Since I don't often have internet access right now, if you have any issues, please email me
<bluesabre> and, if you do get the chance to upload it, thanks!
<Unit193> http://mhall119.com/2013/04/uds-13-05-ubuntus-second-online-developer-summit/ for what it's worth.
<pleia2> I'll be able to participate, but I can't help with any prep (my plane lands at home late on the 12th)
<pleia2> baizon: have any time today to work on that article? our other volunteer, Richard Dennis, has written a bunch if you want to take a look and pitch in
<baizon> pleia2: yes
<pleia2> thank you :)
<baizon> sorry, work is taking time :(
<pleia2> if you could add the part about shimmerproject's ppa, that would be great
<baizon> need to finish project until tomorrow :(
<baizon> what has he done writing?
<pleia2> it's all in the etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-articles-themes
<pleia2> he walks users through downloading and installing a theme
<pleia2> oh, looks like he does mention shimmer
<baizon> indeed
<pleia2> anyway, anything you could fill in would be great
<baizon> starting now
<pleia2> thank you!
<baizon> pleia2: screenshots nice to have or unnecessary?
<pleia2> baizon: we should have screenshots
<baizon> you make them?
<pleia2> if you can create them (preferably taken with default theme applied) you can just put a note in the doc and email them to lyz@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> or just tell us what screenshots you want, and we'll find someone to make them :)
<baizon> ok
<knome> pleia2, well, default theme, or if we are demonstrating that the looks really change when you change a theme, why not some other theme as well!
<pleia2> ah right, sure
<knome> that could be that welcome diversity on the shots
<knome> Noskcaj, hello. what's your schedule for the next hour?
<pleia2> so the thing with testdrive is you don't really download the iso beforehand, it is magic, clicky does that for you
<pleia2> (well, you *can* download it beforehand, just need to put it in the right directory)
<pleia2> so I think if it's included in the article, it needs to be explaiend a bit
<pleia2> also, I didn't know testdrive could create usb, I thought it was an all virtual tool (guess I haven't looked at it in a while)
<pleia2> Noskcaj: think you can take a look at the article for this stuff ^^
<knome> my point is that if we mention testdrive, we should have some instructions on how to use it generally
<knome> the normal first-time tester probably doesn't want to go through that
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> maybe we should just leave testdrive out
<knome> i'd say so
<knome> and generally, we should have as little different things and explain the ones we have thoroughly
<knome> i would like the article to be something that makes people who read it instantly think "hey, i can do that" and not "i wonder how that works..."
 * pleia2 nods
<lderan> knome, to make sure you want the output to the media wiki to be the one that has its formatting changed for the meeting bot? or it is the normal text output?
<knome> lderan, i'm not sure i completely follow, can you explain a bit further?
<lderan> theres multiple classes which handle the output, theres one for mediawiki & text and a few others
<knome> mmh
<knome> the one we'd like changed is the moinmoin wiki output
<knome> i'd imaging it's called "moin" based on the filenames
<knome> *imagine
<lderan> found it
<lderan> thanks :D
<knome> np
<knome> btw, i marked you as the assignee on the work item here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-bugs
<lderan> ah cool
<lderan> i've got the meeting bot working in its current state albeit with changes to its logging path
<knome> mhm
<knome> skellat, you around?
<knome> skellat, unless mr_pouit suddenly appears from the dust, we need a sponsored upload for bug 1158431
<ubottu> bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-10
<skellat> knome: Attached ubuntu-sponsors to the bug, now we wait.  Was out at the farm checking on the chickens.
<knome> skellat, thanks
<skellat> I've attached ubuntu-release too
<skellat> Somebody should mention the bug over in that channel so that somebody is aware
<knome> they should be aware of it without mentioning
<knome> (since this isn't mainly a -release thing, but sponsoring stuff, i won't post just yet)
<knome> i'm also going to bed soon anyway, so wouldn't be able to follow up
<skellat> Alrighty
<skellat> Sleep fast.
<knome> but i'll look into it tomorrow
<pleia2> chickens!
<skellat> knome: I attached myself as a subscriber to the bug too
<knome> ta
<knome> i'm off to bed now
<knome> see you all later
<Unit193> Good night.
<kurapika> hello somebody can direct me to find log file for the xfce4-panel
<ochosi> kurapika: support channel is #xubuntu, but to quickly answer your question: it doesn't have it's own logfile. depending on the kind of error you'll find it e.g. in ~/.xsession-errors or in /var/log/*
<kurapika> oki thanks ;)
<ochosi> np
<kurapika> found it thanks a lot :D
<ochosi> hmpf, synaptic is gtk3 in Raring (an experimental build) and there are some tiny visual glitches with it. have to say i'm quite happy we don't ship it by default
<GridCube> o:
<ochosi> skellat: so yeah, the bug has a fix in github...
<ochosi> usually we would proceed like this:
<ochosi> 1) i fix a bug, commit it to github (https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird)
<ochosi> 2) when enough bugs have been fixed or we're close to a release, i "release a new version" (i.e. add a git-tag)
<ochosi> 3) mr_pouit would update the package and upload it
<skellat> Alrighty
<skellat> Lets see what we can do here
<knome> ochosi, skellat: thanks
<skellat> First, in a clean directory I'm running: bzr git-import git://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird.git
<skellat> Or not
<knome> :)
<skellat> Github closed the connection
<skellat> Hunh.  bzr isn't getting the usual responses from Github doing a git import
<skellat> And I gotta get out the door for a medical appointment across town
<knome> what if you git clone and bzr-import from local repo?
<skellat> Possible to do
<skellat> I'll have to check that when I get back in a couple hours
<knome> thanks, and happy traveling
<ochosi> gotta go too, will check in again tomorrow at some point
<ochosi> skellat: ^
<baizon> im back
<baizon> pleia2: ping
<pleia2> baizon: pong
<baizon> pleia2: something you wish to add to the article?
<pleia2> baizon: we had ochosi take a look last night, I think it's looking pretty good
<baizon> yes i saw it
<baizon> he made a few changes
 * pleia2 nods
<baizon> it's done, or is there something else that need to be added?
<pleia2> we may do some style changes and or write introduction/conclusion as needed ,but otherwise I think it's done
<baizon> ok
<amerigena> today, tomorow, next Thursday?
<Unit193> Noo, next Friday!
<Unit193> Care to put some context with that?
<amerigena> Not particularly. Just thinking out loud.
<knome> amerigena, care to do the thinking in -offtopic unless it's related to xubuntu development and you are willing to share?
<amerigena> Yes sir.
<amerigena> Bye.
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> oh well.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-11
<Noskcaj> knome: so you know, i've added the testing team and bug squad to the magazine article http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-articles-xubuntucommunity would you mind proofreading it?
<Noskcaj> can someone running the default themes add some screenshots to the magazine articles?
<Noskcaj> is it just me or is the login manager getting worse?
<ochosi> skellat, knome: any news on bug #1158431 ?
<ubottu> bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
<GridCube> what testings are missing?
<pleia2> Noskcaj: should check the archives if you're having trouble reading messages
<Noskcaj> pleia2, is there a link?
<pleia2> on the bottom of every message
<pleia2> devel mailing list main page has a link to the archives
<pleia2> (same with ubuntu-quality)
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks
<Noskcaj> is there anything people want me to do for the magazine articles? i'm going to be away for a few days
<pleia2> Noskcaj: can you explain which screenshots you wanted in your article?
<pleia2> also some kind of conclusion to wrap up the article would be nice :)
<Noskcaj> pleia2, all i can think of is one of the testdrive main screen and maybe one of the iso tracker.
<pleia2> we're going to remove testdrive from these instructions
<Noskcaj> ok, why?
 * pleia2 gets the logs
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/04/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t20:42
<pleia2> (we tried to get your attention, but I guess you weren't around :))
<Noskcaj> i see, i had just turned my PC off.
<Noskcaj> it's a shame we''re removing testdrive, it's the most complete testing program, but you have a point
<pleia2> it's really quite different from the other two tools, so we'd need to write two different sets of instructions which gets overwhelming
<Noskcaj> yeah, i agree
<Noskcaj> and testdrive is so buggy it hurts
<Noskcaj> knome, use https://trello.com/board/autopilot-tests/50e735ad7351f0a64e00040c for autopilot things
<Noskcaj> i recommend you make a leafpad testcase an an Xchat testcase first
<knome> Noskcaj, i appreciate that somebody is organizing that, but as i wrote in the mail, i think we need to cooperate the xubuntu efforts on the wiki first
<Noskcaj> yeah, possibly
<knome> Noskcaj, i'd imagine that trello board is not for planning and discussion, looks like it's more for gathering together all things
<knome> my point is that we don't even know how we can benefit from any automated testing.
<pleia2> knome: added first draft of my article, need to tidy it up
<Noskcaj> knome, ask balloons. but mostly because it speeds up testing so much, especially the post-install tests. which could really benfit from it
<knome> Noskcaj, i have general knowledge on automated testing, but i don't know where and how we can make it actually beneficial
<knome> pleia2, right, i'll need to see that
<knome> pleia2, how's your saturday?
<Noskcaj> knome, mostly the post install tests, which are very tedious.
<pleia2> knome: I can wake up at 1400 if needed, but the rest of my weekend is stupid busy
<knome> 14UTC?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> okay...
<knome> i'm not sure if that works for me. a late night would be better
<pleia2> I'm out the rest of the day
<knome> (i *might* be around at that time as well, but... meh)
<knome> do you leave on monday or sunday to the conference?
<pleia2> monday
<knome> okay
<pleia2> before the sun comes up
<knome> heh
<pleia2> Sunday is my clean home + pack for conference + more wedding stuff
<pleia2> so really no time there :(
<knome> yeah. i was wondering if we will have any time to work on the articles together
<knome> today?
<pleia2> yeah, I'll try today
<pleia2> have work for the next 3.5 hours
<knome> i can basically be around at any time, if it's something that'll allow me to sleep
<knome> that's probably pushing it... but i could look around the articles during that time and then try to stay up some time just to coordinate the rest with you
<pleia2> ok, you want to look through (can leave notes for me), then I look through tonight, then tomorrow we try to do finishing touches?
<knome> gah, is the wiki playing on me again
<knome> yep, that sounds like the most feasible plan
<knome> i'll try to gather a todo-list *at least*
<knome> my neck still hurts really bad, so i'll have to keep breaks and stuff.
<knome> who's light blue on the community artile?
<knome> *article
<knome> we should've told people to leave a comment in the chat to identify them
<pleia2> I think it was Noskcaj 
<knome> do we want to keep the "if" -thing going?
<pleia2> I think it's fine
<pleia2> those sections do need to be xubuntu-ized
<knome> in that case i'd change the sections before as well
<knome> all the sentences start with "if" there ;)
<knome> yeah.
<knome> who enjoys "finding bugs" :)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> that's just a weird way to step into the section
<knome> i'm thinking about the article scope
<knome> do we want to describe the actual steps to get involved (like in testing and bug triage), or just give the reader an idea how they could help (like the previous ones)
<pleia2> ah, good point
<knome> because that's prone to change too
<knome> daily build -> too technical :)
<pleia2> yeah, dropping it entirely is fine
<knome> i'll look if there's something i can mention
<pleia2> plus this applies to stable too, where an SRU may be needed (unrelated to daily builds)
<knome> yup
<knome> the pad's lagging
<pleia2> looks like you fell off
<knome> i fell off like 5 times
<pleia2> I'm not editing so if you want to do some offline for a bit and copy it in later that's fine
<knome> if the pad continues playing with me, i'll do that
<pleia2> really, if we want to mvoe them all to google docs at this point that's ok
<knome> does gdocs show character counts?
<pleia2> then we have an easy export to do to get them to Sonny anyway
<pleia2> pretty sure, if not you can download as .odt anyway
<knome> yeah.
 * pleia2 checks
 * knome breaths deeply
<knome> i hate the pad
<pleia2> does word count
<knome> it's dis/reconnecting me every 10 secs
<pleia2> oh, include characters
<knome> good
<knome> let's do that
<pleia2> so yeah, move everything to docs and invite lyz@princessleia.com to edit plz
<knome> meh!
<knome> :)
<knome> i will
<knome> once i get my head around how to do that
 * pleia2 voluntells knome 
<knome> and get a few hits at the pad
<knome> lol
<knome> so docs.google.com is really "gods.com"
 * knome has horrible typing again
<knome> gdocs says "Sorry, there was an error performing this operation."
<knome> ...what operation?
<knome> i just logged in.
<knome> you should be shared a folder in my gdrive now
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> great!
<knome> how can i see if you're on?
 * pleia2 opens a doc
<knome> ah, great
<knome> you have opened the document!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> going out to run a couple errands (need some fresh air)
<knome> ok, hf
<knome> (i need some fresh air too...)
<knome> pleia2, i reviewed and revised the community article
<knome> pleia2, moving the other articles to gdocs now as well
<pleia2> knome: wanna delete content in etherpad and just leave a "thanks for your article, it's being sent to the editor!" note?
<pleia2> just in case anyone tries to edit more
<knome> yeah, i'll do that once i've done moving each
<knome> the themes article needs p-a-r-a-g-r-a-p-h-s :)
<Pwnna> so..
<Pwnna> i noticed the the development for xubuntu is somewhat stalling
<Pwnna> I'm a developer and I use Xubuntu on a daily basis
<knome> it's not, ubuntu just has most of the freezes right now and there's not much we can do
<Pwnna> so i want to contribute. However I mainly work with the web and stuff. not sure how to start
<Pwnna> oh is it?
<pleia2> yeah, release is just 2 weeks away :)
<pleia2> so only major bug fixes are going on right now
<knome> Pwnna, http://xubuntu.org/contribute/  is a good starting point.
<knome> talking to me and pleia2 isn't bad either.
<Pwnna> i'm upgrading my netbook to 13.04. i think i have a security issue..
<knome> (i'm the project lead, pleia2 is the website/marketing lead)
<Pwnna> yeah i know
<Unit193> (At least it didn't freeze as long as wheezy has been in for)
<Pwnna> i saw :)
<knome> Pwnna, have you filed a bug?
<Pwnna> not yet. my main dev machine is on LTS
<knome> ok, please do as soon as you can so people can start working on it
<Pwnna> i'm upgrading to beta2
<Pwnna> and i'll see if the bug is still present
<Pwnna> it's not a critical security issue imo
<pleia2> Pwnna: as far as web stuff goes, if you find something that needs fixing/updating/whatever on the website we have bugs for that too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website - once you submit a bug you can also follow up with it with ideas on how to fix (we like when people volunteer to help after noticing an issue!)
<Pwnna> pleia2: i'm more interested in doing dev for the desktop! get away from what i do regularly :P
<pleia2> Pwnna: ah ok :)
<pleia2> Pwnna: might consider contributing directly to Xfce too, since that's where we get our whole environment from
<knome> Pwnna, just a note that i'm doing a website redesign right now, so things can be more or less out of place ;)
<pleia2> we do themes and such, but the Xfce folks handle major desktop stuff
<Pwnna> so if anyone wants to reproduce the bug before I can: in your user session click switch user. Then switch to a different user (I used guest), then click CTRL + ALT + F7. *No* password prompt needed to get back into your account
<Pwnna> hm
<Pwnna> what does the xubuntu people actually do?
<knome> drink beer
 * knome hides
<Pwnna> lol
<pleia2> the contribute page that knome linked gives an overview :)
<Unit193> I drink coffee, eat cookies, and randomly try to fix the docs or if something else is out of place.
<knome> Pwnna, on a more serious tone, we usually just "stitch" several things together and make sure they work smoothly
<pleia2> packaging, testing, bug reporting+fixing, theme design stuff, marketing
<Pwnna> i see
<Pwnna> hm
<knome> Pwnna, now and then we have some projects to create some completely new features as well, though they usually end up upstream ;)
<knome> (which is the point too...)
<Pwnna> heh awesome
<Pwnna> but yeah. that bug is somewhat serious? idk..
<Unit193> Display dialog and gtk theme editor, for two examples.
<Pwnna> still waiting for my updater.
<Pwnna> not sure if that's an upstream issue, however.
<Pwnna> xubuntu needs stickers!
<Pwnna> :P
<knome> we have stickers!
<knome> you can order them from moo.com!
<Pwnna> where?
<Pwnna> o.O
<knome> hmm, we didn't publish that page on our website yet
<knome> just a second
<Pwnna> the github octocat stickers are tempting too. they're outta stock, however
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products#Stickers
<Pwnna> aww but no one other than those that uses xubuntu know what that logo means :P
<knome> it's a good conversation opener.
<Pwnna> lol
<Unit193> "Why do you have a (rat|bunny) on your laptop?"
<Pwnna> iunno. i'm gonna be sticking a tonne of octocats..
<Pwnna> so..
<knome> no one knows what they mean either
<Pwnna> i ripped off my win7 sticker
<Pwnna> it needs a replacement ;)
<Pwnna> knome: well but they look weird and more prominent than a ratbunny ;)
<knome> we have case badges under work.
<Pwnna> all the xubuntu swag. heh
<knome> we even did a first printing
<knome> where are you from? canada?
<Pwnna> :o
<Pwnna> yup
<Pwnna> yay unmasked host
<knome> if you are nice for pleia2, she might send you one or two.
<Pwnna> :o
<knome> i have them as well, but i live across the pond
<pleia2> yeah, email lyz@ubuntu.com with your postal address and I'll send some over
<Pwnna> heh.
<Pwnna> i'm gonna be moving soon..ish
<Pwnna> so idk if i can accept mail at this point
<pleia2> ah well, whenever :)
<Pwnna> though i do have like 16 days.. hmm
<pleia2> I tend to order more when I run out, so I usually have a supply of them
<knome> pleia2's going to be all across the world in the following month, so be quick!
<knome> (disclaimer: in one piece and in one place at a time)
<pleia2> just east, then south a bit :)
<bluesabre> just one?
<pleia2> sticking with this continent afterall
<knome> yeah, not in ghana, then US, then denmark, then US... like the last time.
<pleia2> hehe
<Pwnna> me too!
<pleia2> that was a tiring month
<knome> bluesabre, yes. i think it's better for us if pleia2 stays in one piece
<bluesabre> ah
<knome> bluesabre, actually, she's going to be two-in-one soon!
<bluesabre> yeah, that would be useful, unless she can do twice as much as two parts?
<Unit193> Can't do twice as much with twice as many pleia2s?
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> well next week I go to Portland, then Philly, then Mexico
<knome> (and that's not in a kinky way, just how many people conceptualize marriage)
<pleia2> portland is north I guess
<Pwnna> pleia2: hmm i definitely have enough time! hopefully :) email'ed 
<knome> Unit193, i guess she hasn't got the ability to actually split into two different pieces which are both similar to what she's now... otherwise i might need to have one here.
<Unit193> Silly birds/bats in the chimney again...
<lderan> darn them
<knome> pleia2, all articles moved over to gdocs
<Pwnna> gdocs!
<knome> yes?
<Pwnna> the inability to do more complicated headers/footers, as well as just the general lack of features really.. >_>
<knome> it's like heave compared to a laggy etherpad.
<knome> heaven too
<knome> and we don't really need complicated stuff
<Pwnna> yeah i know
<Pwnna> i use it a lot now..
<knome> and it's just temporary anyway
<Pwnna> there really needs to be an alternative to it..
<Unit193> There is skydrive. :P
<Pwnna> ..... 
<Pwnna> ._.
<lderan> it works...kind of
 * Pwnna is a microsoft-free user! :D
<knome> i'm not...kind of
<Pwnna> lol
<knome> i stil need to run windows under virtualbox, but i don't have a native installation anywhere
<lderan> i have to use their stuff at work, there is no escape for me
<knome> i try to avoid it, but i have some rare clients who need some windows-consulting
<knome> it was nice to see how windows 8 was... until i needed to configure it
<Unit193> Tax software...  Anyway, Libreoffice did have some weird document CVS type thing in 4.0+, don't know how to use it though.
<pleia2> I have to do some corporate stuff on windows, but not much or often
<knome> anyway, this starts going offtopic, so let's continue on #xubuntu-offtopic
<Pwnna> oh yeah me too. i guess
<Pwnna> autocad grr
 * lderan goes back to setting up a moinmoin wiki for testing
<knome> pleia2, i worked some more on the testing article. i think it's much better now, but it also lacks around 1800 chars.
<knome> pleia2, there is still things to extend though
<knome> pleia2, i'm wondering if we should go through setting up a vbox installation as well. it's not too long, and it would be quite useful
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> I think I managed to upload a new catfish to the catfish-stable ppa
<knome> ooh what? you want to help?
<knome> oh damnit.
<bluesabre> we'll find out if it builds
<knome> ;)
 * bluesabre wonders if one successful package is enough for me to get upload rights
<knome> haha
<knome> probably not, but it's a good start
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> if it does work, I might be able to get you to talk to scott to upload it to raring
<Unit193> bluesabre: pdebuilder can help there, one of the worst issues I hit with upload was I had entered "unstable" for dist. :P
<bluesabre> nice
<knome> i'd imagine a few succeful uploads would warrant you to get the upload permissions to xubuntu packages, if we set up team delegation
<knome> bluesabre, rather just make a general query for sponsorship
<knome> poking (too) busy people with our errands is not what i want to do every day :)
<knome> (philosophically thinking, i don't know if there is any single thing i want to do every day)
<Unit193> Eat.
<bluesabre> Go to the moon?
<bluesabre> and get paid for it
<knome> yeah. but sometimes it just feels like it's a mandatory thing you have to perform
<knome> i assume that would be physically exhausting thing to do every day...
<knome> ...and we're going offtopic again :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> This always happens when I am around ;)
<knome> nah, it's one of the things that tell you you've done enough FOSS work for the day
<lderan> good to know :P
<bluesabre> woo!  Hedgewars update!
<knome> bluesabre, HA!
<bluesabre> Good to know these things are still getting updates after all the freezes are over
<knome> oh.
<knome> duh.
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> its important, for sure
<knome> very.
<knome> but if it's non-seeded...
<knome> then it should have no problems getting in if it's just bug fixes
<bluesabre> we should consider adding it as part of the xubuntu seed
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> hah
 * bluesabre hides from incoming slap
<knome> inkscape first.
<knome> nah
<knome> my neck/back hurts so no slapping for me
<bluesabre> wow, launchpad never gets my packages in the build queue for just 15 minutes
<bluesabre> this is amazing
<lderan> \o/
 * knome tickles lderan from the armpit
 * lderan flails a bit
<bluesabre> wooo!
<bluesabre> it worked
<bluesabre> it built and the previous packaging issues are fixed
<knome> :)
<lderan> yay
<Pwnna> login screen: password text and the hostname text is white..
<Pwnna> hard to see
<bluesabre> yeah, known bug, we need an uploader to get the latest version of our theme before we can "fix" that
<Pwnna> ok
<bluesabre> knome, I vote for you
<knome> bluesabre, you can't.
<bluesabre> to continue being XPL
<knome> bluesabre, yet.
<Pwnna> i feel like my sensors output is wrong for this netbook o.o
<bluesabre> I know
<Pwnna> uh. wrong windo
<bluesabre> But I will
<knome> :)
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> Unless I am missing from the internet that day
<knome> if you wish to, you can leave some supporting words in my wikipage
<knome> i just noticed i went 1000 chars over my limit!
<bluesabre> :O
<lderan> oh no!
<knome> well i'm just cutting down the crap i put in there
<knome> i mean, the extra characters
<pleia2> knome: remember, we're not doing screenshots everywhere
<pleia2> so we may need more words in some articles
<pleia2> also - should we use the picture from UDS in our community article?
<lderan> knome, i've got the #startmeeting to be case insensitive because i stumbled across it :P
<knome> lderan, hehe
<knome> pleia2, mmh.
<knome> pleia2, see the community article
<knome> pleia2, it's 4998 chars.. without spaces
<knome> OOPS!
<knome> :)
 * pleia2 shrugs
<knome> yeah.
<knome> but you also might want to check i didn't write i secretly love pleia2 in a pink unicorn dress.
<pleia2> this article is pretty
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> right, no unicorn dresses
<knome> for you or me?
<knome> :|
<pleia2> for me
<knome> ah! then it's fine
<knome> ;)=
<knome> i mean, the aforementioned sentence might imply *i'm* in the pink unicorn dress, secretly loving pleia2 
<pleia2> true
<Unit193> lderan: Great!  We can finally use #StArTmEeTiNg !
<pleia2> I'll keep an eye out for that too
<knome> good good
<knome> i don't remember i wrote that, but if i did, please edit it away
<lderan> Unit193, who wouldn't want to use that?
<pleia2> Unit193: you totally would open a bug report requesting that
<knome> i don't fancy pink unicorn dresses either
<Unit193> pleia2: ...That'd be one I'd even have to file, with my hate for bugs. :P
<knome> Unit193, file a bug saying people shouldn't need to file bugs because that's just clearly against humanity.
<knome> Unit193, if you file it against xubuntu-website, i'll mark it as invalid and comment that rather than what you wrote, it's against humanity needing to *process* bugs.
<bluesabre> Unit193, but bugs get rid of that false sense of security
<bluesabre> I thought catfish was finally perfect, but the bugs finally started rolling in
<Unit193> bluesabre: I never have that, my 82845G/GL with the i915 driver makes sure of that on the one computer...
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> could be worse
<bluesabre> I found a bug with the current kernel version with my laptop
<bluesabre> but its fixed in the next kernel version
<bluesabre> which means I am stuck with it until 13.10
<bluesabre> no suspending for me
<bluesabre> I guess thats not worse though
<bluesabre> since yours will never work right
<bluesabre> ... sorry
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> pleia2, you're off work any minute!
<pleia2> yes, and have to run to the post office for Pwnna's stickers!
<knome> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-12
 * pleia2 uses any excuse she can to go play outside again, so nice!
<knome> that's good
<Pwnna> thanks pleia2!
<pleia2> knome: so I did some thorough go-throughs of controlling, themes and styles and experiences
<knome> pleia2, i noticed
<knome> good good
<pleia2> falling asleep :( halfway through the xfce desktop one (around panels section)
<knome> awwh
<pleia2> I'll finish that and go through testing and community tomorrow I guess
<knome> ok
<pleia2> actually, I am being compelled to stay up later, back to desktop then
<knome> mmh
<knome> ok
<pleia2> alright, that'll do it, didn't need much changes in the 2nd half (or I'm too tired :))
<pleia2> testing and community tomorrow then
 * pleia2 attempts going toward bed again
<knome> heh
<knome> good night
<knome> can somebody confirm if the new wallpaper is in raring or not?
<knome> apparently not.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork indicates no.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> we need that uploaded.
<knome> also, the new terminal doesn't seem to be able to switch off tab changing on alt+num
<Unit193> ...That's not acceptable, actually.
<knome> no
<knome> oh.
<knome> it's a new "feature"
<knome> http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/appearance#menu_and_buttons
<Unit193> Eh, hopefully this doesn't pan out as bad as I think it might. ;P
<knome> which would be?
<knome> skellat, you around?
<Unit193> Either new terminal or held package is worst case. :P  06:09 his time now.
<knome> well it's okay.
<knome> just set that feature on in appearance, then change the terminal shortcuts once
<knome> and actually...
<knome> seems like we can affect that with a config file as well
<knome> let's do that next cycle
<Unit193> Indeed.
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5701030/
<knome> paste that in ~./confic/xfce4/terminal/accels.scm and all tabs are alt+shift+[num]
<Unit193> Should put that in roadmap or else it may be forgotten.
<knome> yeah yeah.
<knome> :)
<knome> i'll put it in my todo
<knome> skellat, if you have time, could you take care of handling packaging stuff for bug 1168339?
<ubottu> bug 1168339 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Sponsorship request: Upload new version to Raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168339
<knome> skellat, the code is ready in a branch in LP, commented on the bug
<knome> skellat, and how's things with bug 1158431 progressing?
<ubottu> bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
<knome> micahg, if you are around, please ping me
<knome> baizon, do you want to use your nick in the printed magazine article?
<baizon> knome: you can erase my name imo
<baizon> i mena i didnt wrote anything :) just gave hints
<knome> ok, done.
<knome> thanks for helping out
<baizon> np
<knome> pleia2, worked some more on the testing and themes articles
<knome> pleia2, latter now has some kind of conclusion, but you might want to have a stab at it, it's quite clumsy
<knome> bb,
<knome> bbl too.
<skellat> knome: Got xubuntu-artwork building in my PPA and updated LP Bug #1168339  to include ubuntu-sponsors.  Whether anybody picks it up is beyond my ability to predict at this point.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168339 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Upload new version of xubuntu-artwork to Raring" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168339
<ochosi> skellat: btw, i wouldn't consider the Greybird-bug a UIFe, it's really more bugfix, but if it has better chances of getting sponsored that way it's fine
<skellat> And the branch is uploaded for LP Bug #1158431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] [Needs Sponsor] lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
<skellat> And now we wait
 * skellat done with morning wakeup Xubuntu things and has to get ready to go apply for a job somewhere
<ochosi> skellat: thanks a lot for the greybird stuff! it's really much appreciated
<xubuntu276> Hi I just installed Xubuntu 13.04beta2 and all updates and am very happy so far.  Showstopper issue for me is sessions are not being restored propering after logout or reboot.
<xubuntu276> I could live with Xfce as I can't stand Unity and have found Mate and Cinemon to be more annoying than better than Ubuntu 10.04 Gnome2 was
<xubuntu276> Only thing I've see so far that would qualify as a but is using prefered applications to change my default Xterm from Xfce-xterm to gnome-xterm crashed X-server when I opened the third Xterm.
<xubuntu276> Just want to congratulate the developers and hope they will eventually address this issue by the next LTS Xubuntu release.  I',m committed to only using LTS releases but test out other things from time to time.  The direction Ubuntu is going is not looking like anything I want :(
<xubuntu276> Since I can't type or spell worth a damn, live chat is not a great tool for me!
 * alpacaherder points out to knome that his UIFe is moving along (even though he's really skellat out at the farm): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1168339/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168339 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Upload new version of xubuntu-artwork to Raring" [Undecided,In progress]
<alpacaherder> Just need to get ubuntu-docs signed off
 * alpacaherder disappears to get check on the baby chicks and the bantams as well as other farm responsibilities while he is away from his normal ZNC proxy
<lsdma> Hi, I'm just testing Xubuntu 386 daily Live Session and encountered a Bug with gnome-sudoku. Where shall i file the Bugreport?
<knome> lsdma, in launchpad, against the gnome-sudoku package in ubuntu.
<lsdma> thanks
<knome> np
<knome> lsdma, and just to make sure, are you submitting the reports to the iso tracker?
<lsdma> thats the Plan
<knome> great, thanks for the help
<knome> feel free to ask for further advice if you need some, people on this channel should be able to help
<lsdma> Thanks, i feel it is about time to give something back
<knome> :)
<knome> i definitely hope our testing is more organized next cycle, so if you stick with us, we will hopefully be a better community for testers too
<skellat> knome: I had sent an e-mail using the Launchpad team contact facility to ask the 56 known members of sponsors if anybody would be up to piloting the two remaining bits to conclusion
<knome> thanks
<knome> as you probably noticed, the UIFe is approved
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> Which is a good thing
<knome> sure
<knome> pleia2, ohai!
<pleia2> hello
<pleia2> crazy day
<knome> :)
<knome> i woke up with a really bad neckache
<knome> but it's better now, took a few painkillers in the morning and got some excersize
<knome> i'm really tired though
<pleia2> I am tiiired
<knome> yeah
 * pleia2 looks at articles
<pleia2> happy times, europeans
<pleia2> themes article is fine I think
 * pleia2 s/CD/DVD in testing article
<knome> i know.
<pleia2> does testing need a conclusion?
<pleia2> I made some changes, it feels better now
<pleia2> any comments on "controlling xubuntu"?
<pleia2> I wrote it, so it's obviously awesome and I think it's fine
<pleia2> made one comment on "experiences" otherwise I think it's ok
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> good additions+changes to desktop article, looks good
<knome> we should get the articles with the screenshots to the magazine ASAP so they can comment on the length and if we need to write more
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> shall we flip for screenshot duty? ;)
 * pleia2 goes through community article now
<knome> what if the other one gathers a list of screenshots we need per article, and other shoots them?
<pleia2> I already started making the list
<pleia2> my article has some notes about what I need
<pleia2> adding Strategy Document link to your article, it's muy important
<knome> heh, sure
 * pleia2 s/won't bite/are friendly
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> finished ruining your article
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8138289128/in/set-72157631927163838
<pleia2> should use that picture
<pleia2> even if it makes me look fat
<knome> fat next to me? no chance!
<pleia2> and this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8152535628/in/set-72157631927163838/
<pleia2> maybe this! http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7575382402/in/set-72157630589008812
<knome> yeah, why nyt
<knome> not
<knome> i'm wondering how much space we have since i got a bit overboard with the chars!
<pleia2> I'll let them worry about that I think :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> sure.
<pleia2> they gave us an estimate, typesetting go-go!
<pleia2> I think I am done editing everything now
<Unit193> knome: You're a big dude anyway, and I'm not talking belly.
<knome> i will try to look them through tomorrow
<pleia2> you're a chimpanzee
<knome> Unit193, heh. thanks, i guess :)
<knome> haha!
<Unit193> pleia2: I've been called a gibbon.
<pleia2> I saw the picture
<pleia2> was a chimp!
<knome> pleia2, how bad would the photo from the bar be?
<Unit193> (No, as in, someone did in person.  "You're like a gibbon."
<Unit193> )
<pleia2> knome: I do love that photo :)
<knome> i can't make up my mind on which one would be better
<pleia2> was just thinking the other because it has more people in it
<knome> sure, but otoh, it's the same people + a guy from xfce
<pleia2> but we look like we're having more fun at the bar
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ...whcich is a cool feat though
<pleia2> maybe we go with bar pic, since it's funner and we want people to think we have fun
<pleia2> (we don't just call each other names and fight over pixels)
<knome> :D
<knome> we do that *too*, though.
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> we should probably crop that pic a little
<knome> thinking of removing the beer bottle neck and some extra space on the right hand side
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> also, i don't know HOW my badge ended up being not straight at all times!
<knome> it was always like 35 degrees wrong
<pleia2> "this is pleia2, she is a lush" "it's not even my beer!" "the first step is admitting you have a problem!"
<knome> :D
<genii-around> That first pis is really good.
<genii-around> *pic
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8145973750/in/set-72157631927163838 is the bar one we're considering
<Unit193> Indeed, just missing puit!
<knome> Unit193, and simon. and sean. and...
<genii-around> The middle one definitely needs cropping
<knome> genii-around, you mean the middle guy in the first photo? yeah, i agree..
<genii-around> Hehe
<pleia2> chop out the audience!
<knome> pleia2, should we take screenshots of raring or quantal?
<pleia2> raring
<knome> raring, i suppose
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> I wrote for raring in my article (some things changed!)
<knome> :)
<genii-around> I meant http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8152535628/in/set-72157631927163838/   ... could take the top off down to the screen and left side up to where the logo starts
<knome> where are you gathering the list of shots/photos we need
<genii-around> knome: Is that you in the middle?
<pleia2> I was, but then I started just goofing off
<knome> genii-around, yeah ;)
<genii-around> Thought so!
<Unit193> pleia2: Got a list of screenshots needed?  I may be able to pick off a few...
<genii-around> It's nice to put faces to names I see here. 
<pleia2> knome: Controlling your Xubuntu system has all screenshot notes in it
<Unit193> genii-around: Indeed!
<knome> pleia2, i thought it might be easier to gather those in one place, then just take them and worry about attaching later
<knome> :)
<pleia2> aaaalll right
<knome> but whatever works
<pleia2> I shall make a screenshot doc
<knome> i suppose i can do some ISO testing tomorrow and then take the shots from the newly installed system
<pleia2> I emailed you Inoki Sakaeru's desktop screenshot
<pleia2> it's got a dead skeleton thing on it
<knome> why do you mention?
<pleia2> no reason
<knome> ok
<pleia2> suppose I can toss vms up to do Unity and KDE desktops
<pleia2> even if it's icky
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> just kidding, I love you all!
<knome> ah, it's not that graphic anyway
<knome> i would have thought the bird made you feel worse than the skeleton
<pleia2> yeah, birds make skeletons after they feed on the flesh of the living
<pleia2> nasty critters
<micahg> knome: ?
<knome> micahg, we need package uploads.
<knome> micahg, shimmer-themes still, and xubuntu-artwork also
<micahg> knome: shimmer-themes still?  mr_pouit did that before UIFe I thought
<micahg> knome: I can take a look tomorrow night, I also have to upload catfish
<knome> no, we still have to upload some changes
<knome> (he might've done that, but we need to refix things in that case)
<knome> bug 1168339
<ubottu> bug 1168339 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Upload new version of xubuntu-artwork to Raring" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168339
<micahg> well, xubuntu-artwork I know I can do, I can take a look at shimmer-themes, but can't promise
<knome> i don't know what all you need to do on the packaging/technical side, but with common sense, it's really just updating a few files
<knome> which do not need to be built or anything, so...
<skellat> xubuntu-artwork should just need to be uploaded to the queue.  I built it in my PPA and it didn't explode.
<knome> ochosi has been bugging how important the shimmer-themes upload is, but i didn't quite realize it until i upgraded to raring on my desktop today
<knome> we really need to get that fixed
<pleia2> lightdm fixed?
<knome> yeah.
<pleia2> would be good to have that land, it looks like not so good right now
<knome> the shimmer-themes upload will fix that
<knome> aiui, if it does not, i'll kick ochosi in the ankle
<pleia2> haha
<knome> micahg, and thanks again for your time and efforts.
<skellat> For the sake of micahg, that particular bug being referred to is LP Bug #1158431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1158431 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] [Needs Sponsor] lightdm graybird login issues on raring" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158431
<knome> ah yes, i was digging that up bug forgot. thanks skellat :)
<skellat> No worries
<knome> lol, "bug forgot"
<pleia2> knome: you have your list!
<knome> ta!
<pleia2> I hope to see all screenshots when I wake up tomorrow!
<pleia2> <3
<knome> <3
<knome> let's see when i have time for that
<pleia2> :)
<knome> in the next 24 hours, that's for sure
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> I'm good with the articles, so you can do a couple more edits, we gather screenshots and send off tomorrow!
<knome> yup, that's greate
<pleia2> I'll help with the non-default screenshots as needed
<knome> -e
<knome> good good :)
<knome> taking the GNOME/KDE shots would definitely help
<knome> anyway, -->
<pleia2> k
 * pleia2 grabs kubuntu and ubuntu isos
<genii-around> What do you need of KDE screenshots? 
<pleia2> genii-around: default raring desktop
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-13
<pleia2> no added apps or changes
<genii-around> Ah, OK. I'm on Kubuntu 13.04 but changed wallpapers, etc
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'll just toss it on a VM :)
<pleia2> I think I need a nap while these download
<knome> pleia2, i guess you're not awake anymore ;)
<knome> ochosi, there's a slight problem with the lightdm theme, but only a slight...
<knome> ochosi, if you have two users who both have same *realname* there's no way to make a difference between them
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_magazine
<knome> people with twitter, please retweet https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/323045621181325312
<lderan> knome, is this how you wanted the top of the moin output to be http://paste.ubuntu.com/5704563/
<knome> lderan, that looks great :)
<knome> brb
<pleia2> knome: these are going to be in a magazine, so they'll show up pretty small, think you can make some of your shots so they'll shrink well?
<pleia2> like xubuntu-autostart.png probably want to make it smaller
<pleia2> I'm thinking we just want the application, not the whole desktop
<pleia2> are you good with the articles? I'll send them off in a bit when I'm more awake if so :)
 * pleia2 just got up for some water
<lderan> knome, even more progress for you to check :P http://paste.ubuntu.com/5704881/
<lderan> knome, also is this how you would like #info and #actions to be formatted in the summary? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5704946/
<lsdma> Hi to all, Newbie at testing here. Iv'e got just a short question: while testing a Live Session all went fine except a game (gnome-sudoku) not starting. Shall i report it as failed, because the Testcase was not fullfilled? And if so shall i put that Bug into the critical Bug field?  
<holstein> lsdma: what test case? from the qa tracker?
<lsdma> yes
<holstein> lsdma: if it didnt pass, then, it didnt pass... is there a bug already?
<lsdma> yepp 1124356
<holstein> lsdma: sounds like you are doing it right
<skellat> LP Bug #1124356
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1124356 in gnome-games (Ubuntu) "gnome-sudoku crashed with NotImplementedError in __init__(): Setting properties of type 'GdkEventMask' is not implemented" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124356
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-14
<lderan> knome, how does this look http://paste.ubuntu.com/5706406/
<Unit193> Hrm, he didn't change it so it said "Created by Meetingology"?  That's alright.  He may or may not be sleeping, it  is 3am his time.
<knome> mmh, right.
<knome> Unit193, hah, i'm still here!
<knome> lderan, personally i think the action items are useless (you only need the "by person" really)
<Unit193> lderan: You have a place you're slapping the code?  I think I have a clone of meetingology.
<lderan> Unit193, yeah i have it running locally
<knome> lderan, hmm. i'm wondering about the subtopics
<knome> lderan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/MeetingologyOutput
<knome> lderan, see how that turns out in moin?
<knome> actually, that's fine
<lderan> ah okay 
<knome> nvm that.
<knome> i was wondering that it was weird that the items not under a subtopic appeared at the same level as the subtopics
<knome> but it's not
<knome> another idea is to make the subtopics bold
<knome> that would probably make them stand out enough
<knome> also, another thing i'm generall wondering about
<knome> the main topics do not have times, so why should the subtopics (or the items?!)
<knome> people may disagree about that, but for me, having the times for each item is just overhead
<lderan> can agree with that
<knome> and i don't think it matters too much who "posted" them
<knome> what about... (just a sec
<lderan> if you wanted to know the time the chat log has them
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/MeetingologyOutput#preview
<knome> something like that, maybe?
<knome> i mean the times for topics are fine, because that allows you browsing the logs quickly if you are looking for some particular discussion
<lderan> should be much of a do to do that
<knome> i'm not even sure if the minutes are necessaru.
<knome> s/u/y/
<knome> err
<knome> seconds :)
<knome> or just...
<knome> (again, sec)
<knome> another idea added at the wiki
<knome> the time is a bit obtrusive on the title though
<knome> or just s/@/at/
<knome> whatever you think is good
<knome> that's just minutiae
<knome> it's great to get the output fixed generally
<knome> (thanks! :))
<lderan> no problem at all
 * lderan goes to find where it generates the string (nick time)
<knome> mhm
<pleia2> knome: see my comments about the size of screenshots?
<knome> pleia2, yes.
<knome> pleia2, i read it, but i didn't read it.
<pleia2> haha
<knome> pleia2, i'm fine with the articles as they are though
<knome> pleia2, i can boot up my vbox if you want me to take more/new shots
<pleia2> yeah, so for like http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/marketing_magazine/xubuntu-taskmanager.png I think we want it cropped just around the task manager
<pleia2> and the task manager should maybe be made smaller, so people can actually read it once it's shrunk
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_magazine/taskmanager.png ? :P
<knome> that was already there!
<knome> but i can take a shot of an even smaller one
<pleia2> yeah, a bit smaller would be good
<knome> ok
<knome> just tell me what you want me to do and i'll do it as you say
<pleia2> like xubuntu-adjusting-sound.png I think we can just crop it around the dialog itself
<knome> but!
<pleia2> smaller and cropped xubuntu-autostart.png too
<knome> that's a shot for that and the soundmenu.
<pleia2> it's going to be impossible to read when shrunk for the magazine
<knome> "read" ?
<knome> it's an image...
<pleia2> the images have words on them, mute, sound settings, etc :)
<skellat> Apply Gaussian Blur for good measure just in case :-)
<knome> heh
<pleia2> otherwise they all look like "desktop with some blurry tool"
<knome> wait
<knome> you stupid :P
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/marketing_magazine/pavucontrol.png
<pleia2> that one is fine
<pleia2> I'm talking about the control from the panel
<knome> i'll take a new one with more action though
<knome> so, then?
<pleia2> bah
<pleia2> I can just do the cropping
<knome> okay.
<pleia2> did we change the default wallpaper?
<pleia2> (I'm running beta2 and it's still the 12.10 one)
<knome> yeah...
<knome> or,
<knome> we're in the progress
<pleia2> ok
<knome> that should've happened already ages ago, but it slipped my monitor back then
<pleia2> hehe, monitor
<knome> heh
<knome> that
<knome> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhTM9-55bI0
<skellat> pleia2 knome I still haven't seen anything on #ubuntu-release that the new xubuntu-artwork has gone in yet.  It is the weekend, though, so perhaps we might see it Monday or Tuesday.
<knome> skellat, micahg promised he could do that upload
<skellat> Alrighty
<knome> skellat, we need the upload for the shimmer-themes bug too, and that's a bit more kinky
<skellat> I know
<knome> skellat, i'd really like mr_pouit handling it, because he knows how to do it and it'd take him much less time than for anybody else
<skellat> ubuntu-sponsors have been pinged so it is past what I have rights to do within the current infrastructure
<skellat> Where has mr_pouit been lately?
<pleia2> knome: we using bar photo or uds room photo? and did you want to crop the knome presentation photo or should I do it? (evil laugh!)
<knome> oh, i should do that
<knome> :P
<knome> just a sec as i upload these shots
<knome> skellat, living his life?
<skellat> knome: :-)
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_magazine/
<pleia2> ty <3
<knome> so, let's look at the photo
<knome> humm
<knome> wrong channel
<knome> pleia2, look at #xubuntu :P
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> yeah, it's 4am here... :)
<knome> if you are concerned about the image still being too small, feel free to crop more from the top-right
<knome> i'd say that the cropping on the lower left is fine now
<pleia2> should be ok
<pleia2> I am thinking bar pic, want to crop that one?
<knome> sure
<knome> if you have a link handy, that would be... handy
<knome> but if you don't it's as much browsig for me than it's for you
<knome> found it.
<pleia2> :)
<knome> i was just being lazy.
<knome> uploaded
<knome> or, uploading.
<pleia2> can you make a smaller session and startup one too? :)
<knome> urgh
<knome> let me boot up the vbox again!
<pleia2> :D
<knome> i'll do it, it just takes some time.
<knome> uploaded
<knome> more?
<knome> btw, did you notice my grand idea in twitter?
<knome> you now have some screenshots to choose from
<knome> https://twitter.com/TheSamsai/status/323088296089628673/photo/1
<knome> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5cqDU5K5nK8/UJadbSHGk1I/AAAAAAAAA3E/pqPSvF1_qog/s891/Desktop031112.png
<knome> https://twitter.com/vadoley/status/323079813478895618/photo/1
<knome> https://twitter.com/clamanzi/status/323073234838896640/photo/1
<knome> https://twitter.com/hozza/status/323057059413233664/photo/1
<knome> https://twitter.com/ManiacTwister/status/323050236689907713/photo/1
<knome> the one with a vertical panel (hozza) could be good for inclusion
<knome> and probably the one with that wacky conky setup (the one in googleuser...)
<pleia2> :D
<knome> there was also one which i thought wouldn't be fine for inclusion
<knome> https://twitter.com/InfiernoWorks/status/323051616188121089/photo/1
<knome> i'm glad he opened a window at least.
<pleia2> x_x
<knome> so do you think we could use those?
<knome> i would imagine the posters do not have problems with us using them, because they specifically sent them to us... but if you want, you can contact them to ask if you want to attribute them
<pleia2> I don't think I'll bother
<knome> or just attribute to @TwitterUser
<knome> i think i'll retweet the ones we've chosen, just for the laughs.
<knome> :)
<knome> do you need something else from raring?
<knome> i'm going to bed next.
<knome> i don't think it's too bad if we send better pics later
<knome> brb, brushing teeth
<pleia2> all is good, I'm prepping these articles to send in a bit :)
<knome> ok good
<pleia2> doh, pavucontrol2.png is another task manager
<pleia2> but I can retake this one
<knome> i can too
<knome> just a sec
<pleia2> is ok, I got it
<knome> ok...
<knome> :)
<knome> i'm shutting down vbox and the pc now then
<knome> thanks for taking care, and see you
<pleia2> sure, good night
<knome> nighty! :)
<pleia2> shipped \o/
<pleia2> that was a lot more work than I had anticipated when we started this
<ochosi> knome: two users 
<Noskcaj> ochosi, how random
<ochosi> knome: two users with the same realname will most likely still have either dofferent avatars or wallpapers
<Noskcaj> never mind
<ochosi> but yeah, we can think about this scenario in the next greeter-release
<skellat> From #ubuntu-release (08:44:50 AM) queuebot: (notice) [03:46:07] Unapproved: xubuntu-artwork (raring-proposed/universe) [13.04.3 => 13.04.4] (ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<lderan> knome, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5707741/ also have added it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/MeetingologyOutput#preview
<knome> lderan_, shiny!
<knome> lderan_, though i think that the meeting ending time could be grouped with the starting time/info.
<knome> ochosi, yes, no rush with that. just something to think about (show username somewhere, since that needs to be unique)
<knome> skellat, cool
<knome> pleia2, great!
<lderan_> knome, good idea
<knome> LO in raring looks better than previously, ++ there
<knome> (i mean the startup/load screen)
<knome> that got some literal thumbs up from me
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> knome: easy and obvious way is to do "Real name (username)" in the combobox
<lderan> knome, so something like  * #channelname: test meeting, 14:44:44 ~ 15:55:55 - 14 Apr 2013
<knome> ochosi, or username on hover
<knome> lderan, s/~/&mdash;/
<knome> lderan, and "test meeting, 14 Apr at 14:44:44 â 15:55:55" is probably better
<lderan> ok
<lderan> so remove the channel name from it as well?
<knome> umm,
<knome> for my purposes, it's unnecessary
<knome> but i suppose it can be there
<knome> just not sure if it should be the first one
<lderan> okay
<knome> pleia2, d'oh! can you resend me the articles email when you get back? :)
<knome> if somebody does upgrade tests "from image", see bug 1155167
<ubottu> bug 1155167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from image prompts creating a new user" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155167
<knome> that bug happens at least with newly installed quantal being upgraded to raring
<knome> and i don't see any reason why it wouldn't in any case
<lderan> knome, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5708658/ can move the channel name easily enough
<knome> lderan, heh, with &mdash; i mean literal "â" (without quotes)
<knome> lderan, also, can you drop the seconds from the stamps?
<lderan> sure
<knome> that would be good, even easier to read
<knome> lderan, have you shown your work to AlanBell?
<lderan> not yet
<knome> lderan, hmm. i suppose there wasn't any more output on the voting?
<knome> i mean, in the channel, i remember the bot saying something like "motion carried"
<knome> also, we need to tweak the current output as well
<knome> if not else, we need to add a * to make the results a list item
<lderan> it does say "motion carried" in the irc window
<Unit193> Hrm, should bump Alan about private votes too.
<knome> what if the subitem was "  * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained: 1/0/0) or so?
<knome> lderan, oh btw!
<knome> lderan, add [[ ]] to wrap the log link
<lderan> so it'll be fulls logs at [[ url ]]?
<knome> yup
<knome> without spaces, i think
<knome> not sure how moin handles the spaces...
<lderan> okay 
<knome> since we are this far, i'm wondering if we should link all the timestamps
<knome> let me look at it.
<knome> oh, that won't work without modifying the other output runners
<knome> so nvm
<lderan> ok
<lderan> knome, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5709000/ done the voting bits, working on removing the seconds next but first sleep :P
<lderan> &mdash; is accepted by moin it seems
<knome> yeah it should, it's standard html entity
<knome> the votes look great now
<knome> sad meeting btw, bot said more lines than you
<knome> ;(
<knome> on output, "Motion deadlock" -> simply "Deadlock"
<knome> also, if it's not too hard, the votes could show up in the summary
<knome> (not the results, just as items like "  * Vote: Topic" (and possibly "(Carried)" or sth)
<knome> and the votes section could then be called "Vote results"
<lderan> sounds good to me
<knome> good :)
<knome> anyway, good night :)
<lderan> aye good night
<micahg> hrm, when are we voting on project lead?
<knome> micahg, because the strategy document said a term is three releases when i was elected
<knome> oh, when.
<knome> may 1-2
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-07
<jjfrv8> cool. I'll try it and report back.
<jjfrv8> looks like a winner :)
<brainwash> that's great
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: ^
<Logan_> Noskcaj: I am now officially using Xubuntu :P
<Logan_> it's rather pretty
<Unit193> Logan_: Thanks, we think so.
<Logan_> hmm, what to sponsor...
<Logan_> why is xfce4-fsguard-plugin not in the xubuntu packageset? that's odd
<Noskcaj_School> Logan_: fsguard isn't in the packageset because it's not seeded, only part of xfce
<Noskcaj_School> And that particular patch is in the debian svn
<jhenke> morning
<ochosi> Logan_: we have lots of xubuntu stuff in the sponsors' queue, so feel free to pick ;)
<ochosi> someone still needs to prepare the indicator-fix i guess
<Unit193> garcon fixed?
<Unit193> Tested rather?
<brainwash> tested yes
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/garcon/bugfixes
<elfy> ochosi lderan - appears that changing the graphics driver has stopped the screen blanking setting from sticking when you reset it
<elfy> big 1303652
<elfy> bug 1303652
<ubottu> bug 1303652 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Blank screen resets to 1 minute after graphic driver install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303652
<ochosi> elfy: humm, that description could be improved a bit
<ochosi> frankly, just from reading that i don't understand the problem
<elfy> bug 1303652
<ubottu> bug 1303652 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Blank screen setting lost after installing nvidia driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303652
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Could you make a complete list of patches you want applied to abiword? If possible check the upstream stable git too
<brainwash> Noskcaj: so no new stable release? :(
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<elfy> hi brainwash Noskcaj 
<brainwash> 3 reports got the "patch" tag
<brainwash> hello elfy 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Last i check with upstream "Ubuntu should not be using 3.0"
<Noskcaj> debian maintainer: "2.8 and 2.9 are too broken to use, are we just not meant to use abiword?"
<brainwash> but it's synced from debian
<Noskcaj> Also, can you test build gnumeric in your ppa? My internet can't do it
<Noskcaj> And it could probably get synced
<brainwash> test build? a simple re-build?
<brainwash> we need to fix at least the two abiword issues which are linked to the -bugs blueprint
<brainwash> crash on save as pdf and ruler glitch
<elfy> knome: ping 
<ochosi> elfy: hm, sorry, i actually meant the more wordy description of the bug, not the title :)
<elfy> mmm not sure how you don't understand that - I set it to Never and it resets when I reboot to 1 minute
<elfy> I set it to Never and install a driver and it resets it to 1 minute on a reboot
<ochosi> it resets the setting in lls?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> whoa, that is odd
<elfy> I though it was too :)
<ochosi> can you check the desktop file in ~/.config/autostart/ ?
<elfy> later on today I will try with the new install and see what I get there 
<ochosi> it's called "screensaver-settings.desktop"
<ochosi> so obviously something overrides those settings
<elfy> Exec=xset s 0 dpms 0 0 0
<ochosi> that looks ok
<ochosi> that means it's not a bug in lls
<ochosi> because it does what it's expected to do
<ochosi> not sure what could override it
<elfy> 2 minutes then ... 
<ochosi> especially 1min seems oddly short
<elfy> ochosi: ok that's odd
<elfy> it's kept the settiing this time 
<ochosi> but you don't have an xorg.conf, right?
<elfy> later today when I'm more awake I'll boot into my new install and do the same things - install nvidia again
<elfy> no xorg.conf here
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<ochosi> i'm also using nvidia, but i've never seen this kind of behavior
<elfy> that one hasn't had any PPAs or anything added 
<elfy> ochosi: well I never saw this the last I installed nvidia here either
<Noskcaj> brainwash, The version of gnumeric in debian
<Noskcaj> It's a new upstream bugfix release AFAIK
<Noskcaj> But i'll try and prep an abiword upload tomorrow
<Noskcaj> Actually, no, i can't. It's too large a program
<bluesabre> hey Logan_, if you'd be interested, I've got two branches that need merged
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/light-locker-settings/trusty-1.2.1
<bluesabre> ^ Light Locker Settings 1.2.1
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-power-manager/sync_lock_xfpm_session
<bluesabre> here's a bug for the first one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1302484
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302484 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> and we also have an updated shimmer-themes
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1298741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1298741 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload bugfix shimmer-themes-1.7.3" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> elfy, can you give light-locker-settings 1.2.1 a spin (from https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/testing) to see if your issue still occurs?
<elfy> bluesabre: I'll look in the other install later today
<bluesabre> thanks elfy
<elfy> I want to confirm it for myself again 
<elfy> knome: we've no meeting for thursday set on calendar nor wiki
<elfy> and we need to decide ibus before that I think 
<knome> elfy, yes, need to decide at latest on wed
<elfy> what about a meeting though ?
<elfy> xubuntu-touch ftw :D
<knome> yeah, should have a meeting on thu
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> brainwash_: please update the changelog in your merge-requests in the future
<bluesabre> unfortunately, the window controls do not respond to touch input
<ochosi> so touch-input != click?
<bluesabre> so it seems
<bluesabre> the windows are straight X, right?
 * bluesabre hasn't looked at xfwm
<jhenke> folks seen the xfdesktop 4.11.6 release mail right now?
<brainwash_> ochosi: the debian one?
<ochosi> brainwash_: no, the x-d-s ones
<ochosi> nvm now, i've attached a changelog to the bugreport
<ochosi> but in general that's a good thing to do
<ochosi> especially as long as we don't have ppl with push-rights to that branch
<ochosi> cause others might overlook stuff
<ochosi> Noskcaj: new xfdesktop release for you ;)
<brainwash_> ok
<brainwash_> ochosi: you did not add the lp number to the changelog entry "Associate docx files with Abiword"
<ochosi> brainwash_: fixed
<brainwash_> thanks
<brainwash_> ochosi: bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in linux (Ubuntu) "Black screen after login from suspend in Xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<ochosi> yeah, i know, i mentioned that yesterday
<brainwash_> something really seems to be broken for some people
<ochosi> brainwash_: main problem is that there are many factors involved with suspend
<ochosi> could just as well be the graphics driver not handling the wakeup properly and therefore the xrandr setup is messed up
<ochosi> could be something wrong in the suspend routine about that
<brainwash_> mmh, but this case is different
<brainwash_> suspend works and unlock via gtk-greeter works too
<ochosi> right, we can ask them to try without light-locker just to rule that out
<brainwash_> good idea
<ochosi> i.e. without lock on suspend
<ochosi> there was also another bugreport like that
<ochosi> the OP said he bound basically "xrandr --auto" to a kb-shortcut
<ochosi> and that way he could get his session visible again
<ochosi> that was why i mentioned graphics driver before
<ochosi> it sounds odd that the session's setup would be that messed up
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash_> hopefully it's not light-locker's fault.. or hopefully it is :)
<brainwash_> so we can properly debug it
<ochosi> right, that was on the xubuntu-dev-ml
<ochosi> this, plus follow-ups: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-April/009987.html
<ochosi> if you can add that info to the bugreport, that'd be great
<ochosi> gotta run, lunchtime
<elfy> knome: added meeting to wiki - not calendar though
<zequence> I just did a shutdown of Ubuntu Studio, when still having some applications running. Next time, it autostarted those apps
<zequence> Is this default on Xubuntu?
<zequence> I haven't messed with any user configs. Fresh install
<zequence> "Save session for future logins" is not ticked
<brainwash_> how did you shutdown the system?
<zequence> From the menu command "Shut Down"
<zequence> I'm going to test it more later. Just wanted to see if this was a known problemn
<brainwash_> you can clear the session cache in the settings manager > session and startup > session
<brainwash_> then try again
<zequence> As said, I haven't messed with any user settings. But sure, I can do that
<brainwash_> there are many bug reports out there addressing this issue
<zequence> Any fixes?
<brainwash_> manually deleting the session cache
<brainwash_> it seem like as long as the session cache exists it will be used (maybe even updated) to restore the previous running session
<zequence> any links to bug reports? Is someone on this, trying to find a fix - perhaps upstream?
<brainwash_> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10593 in General "Session autosaves on logout even if the option is disabled" [Normal,New]
<brainwash_> this is just one
<zequence> brainwash_: Thanks
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, ochosi, I had a light-locker-settings issue slightly different from elfy's
<jjfrv8> my 'switch off display' setting kept reverting back to something over 25 minutes after I set it to never: http://imagebin.org/304236
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I just installed you ppa and a quick check seems to indicate if fixed that problem
<ochosi> jjfrv8: so lls is fixed in bluesabre's ppa?
<elfy> I'm sure I asked this before - how do I get the titlebar of whiskermenu to be at the bottom if I've moved panel to the bottom
<elfy> in the other install it is at the bottom which suits where the panel is
<ochosi> titlebar?
<ochosi> i guess settings > "position search entry next to panel button" + "position commands next to search entry"
<elfy> I'm not describing it well ... I'll get a picture paints a thousand words screenie :)
<elfy> I'm in the new install - just installing nvidia to see if I get the same issue with blanking
<elfy> ochosi: so I meant not the title bar - but the settings manager/lock screen/logout  buttons position
<elfy> ochosi: importantly - I installed nvidia, had originally set blank screen to Never and Switch Off Display to never
<elfy> now - blank screen is set to Never still but Switch off display is now set to 10 minutes - that's different behaviour 
<ochosi> 10mins is a default value though
<ochosi> so the whisker-settings i mentioned helped?
<elfy> the search bar is at the bottom - that's default I think
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/304246
<elfy> buttons at bottom = awesome when panel is at bottom :)
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/304247 is how this one is here 
<knome> elfy, thanks
<elfy> s'ok
<knome> added meeting to calendar
<knome> i'm sick, so off again
<knome> bbl
<elfy> knome: hope you feel better soon then - and thanks :)
<jjfrv8-work> ochosi, yes, bluesabre's ppa fixed my display shutoff time problem with l-l-s
<brainwash_> ochosi: forgot about this, but l-l-s still ignores the hidden= parameter
<brainwash_> and now it's too late to get it fixed for trusty, or?
<brainwash_> could be seen as security related fix
<ochosi> depends on whether we get someone who uploads it i guess
<ochosi> or someone who babysits others to upload it
<ochosi> but the first thing should've been a bugreport, then a patch/merge-request
<ochosi> i honestly forgot about this issue entirely
<ochosi> only remember that you mentioned it once before
<brainwash_> same
<brainwash_> is it really a big deal? the user might disable ll's autostart entry and later enable ll via l-l-s
<elfy> ochosi: sorted it, set position-commands-alternate=true in whiskermenu rc :)
<brainwash_> l-l-s now tells the user that ll is enabled, but it won't get launched automatically on session start
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that is what i told you before, but via the UI
<elfy> well it didn't work via the UI ;)
<ochosi> that's odd
<brainwash_> ochosi: the next indicator-application upload fixes the startup issue when started via upstart signal
<ochosi> that's good to hear
<brainwash_> everything seems to work then via upstart
<ochosi> we still need to get that patch into xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ochosi> could you prepare a patch for Noskcaj?
<brainwash_> ali1234 needs to edit his patch first
<brainwash_> it emits the signal twice
<brainwash_> meaning it starts two upstart init processes
<brainwash_> which is bad if you logout and only one of them gets killed
<elfy> xfdesktop-settings doesn't set seperate wallpapers for workspaces now 
<elfy> nvm 
<brainwash_> so one thing remains: normal autostart entries are still visible
<elfy> I'm giving up talking today
<RFleming> elfy, aww
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> brainwash_: can you drive that somehow though? it seems you know everything you need to in order to get this patch updated/uploaded
<ochosi> it'd just be good to have a clear assignee for an important issue like this
<brainwash_> ochosi: is it ok to ship this hacky patch? I would expect ali1234 to add some ifdefs and so on
<ochosi> brainwash_: with driving i meant: discuss things with ali1234 (the tests suggest that it works at least), create a merge request from the final patch (whatever is final) and get it in the sponsors queue
<jhenke> elfy thanks for the reminder, I will upgrade my (heavily used) 13.10 work pc at university tomorrow and report back the results
<brainwash_> ochosi: I've uploaded indicator-plugin with the slightly edited patch
<ochosi> you mean to your ppa?
<brainwash_> yes
<ochosi> ok, so i guess we need to test it
<brainwash_> works for me
<brainwash_> got any special test case in mind?
<ochosi> well i assumed that, otherwise what's the point of uploading? :D
<ochosi> not really, but it
<ochosi> 's always good to confirm on >1 machine
<brainwash_> well, I could have uoloaded it first and then test it :)
<ochosi> could be that you've messed with your config etc
<ochosi> who knows
<ochosi> yeah, but that would be insane :p
<brainwash_> i did some changes -> hiding all the normal indicator autostart entries
<ochosi> link to the patch/diff?
<brainwash_> still not sure how or if we can hide them for Xfce
<Logan_> ochosi: it looks like you were able to merge everything for Bug 1303718, right?
<ubottu> bug 1303718 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Update xubuntu's default settings for trusty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303718
<Logan_> or am I misinterpreting the bug?
<ochosi> Logan_: yeah, chatted up a few folks to get it moving
<ochosi> thanks for getting back to me though
<Logan_> haha, no problem
<ochosi> we still have more than enough for you in the queue ;)
<Logan_> sure - please mark that as Fix Released
<ochosi> i also got the light-locker-settings and xfpm stuff out of the way
<ochosi> i think the xubuntu-default-settings still has to be approved by the release team
<ochosi> to quote Laney "it'll wait in the unapproved queue for the release team"
<ochosi> that's why i didn't mark it yet
<Logan_> ah
<Logan_> I still don't fully understand, but oaky :P
<brainwash_> ochosi: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/172075119/xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.3.2-0ubuntu1test1_2.3.2-0ubuntu1test2.diff.gz
<ochosi> Logan_: i'm not a pro in these matters either, but i think he had a good reason not to mark it "fix released" yet
<Logan_> fair enough
<ochosi> Logan_: i'm considering to do another bugfix release for our icon theme, would you be fine with uploading that?
<Logan_> yeah, as long as it doesn't need an FFe
<ochosi> it's mostly missing sizes of icons, and partly improved icons, well nothing that affects our documentation or stuff (our docs don't have icons)
<ochosi> yeah, only bugfix
<ochosi> dinner-time, bbiab
<ochosi> Logan_: actually, if you could help with a merge/upload, i'd have something here right now
<Logan_> sure, what's up?
<ochosi> there's a shimmer-themes sponsoring request in the queue
<ochosi> bluesabre has already done the packaging
<ochosi> and then we have a patch against shimmer-themes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1303937
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1303937 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Dialog buttons have no space between them" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> if both of those could go in, that'd be great
<elfy> this really is just awesome sauce :)
 * Logan_ looks
<ochosi> elfy: what is?
<elfy> someone who can do this for us :)
<elfy> someone else that is 
<Logan_> ochosi: will the patches in that bug apply cleanly against 1.7.3?
<ochosi> Logan_: yes, they just remove a section
<Logan_> ok
<Logan_> ochosi: is upstream forwarding needed for that bug?
<ochosi> Logan_: i am upstream, so i'll handle it
<ochosi> the thing is that things will be different again in gtk3.12
<Logan_> sweet
<ochosi> believe me, gtk3 has been a pita for themers...
<ochosi> we basically have branches for every gtk3 release
<ochosi> they always manage to break a few things with each release :)
<mzr> hey guys, who's the quality assurance lead?
<pleia2> elfy
<mzr> thanks
<pleia2> anything the rest of us can help with? most of us are pretty involved with testing :)
<Logan_> ochosi: if I give you debs, can you test?
<Logan_> I'm not sure I'd know what to look for :P
<Logan_> I applied the patches as well
<ochosi> Logan_: sure
<ochosi> just put them somewhere or email them to me
<Logan_> ochosi: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zs8i1ifqhj2eqj7/JPonwi9N8h
<ochosi> uuh, dropbox â kinky! :)
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> dpkg-deb: error: `shimmer-themes_1.7.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb' is not a debian format archive
<ochosi> Logan_: ^
<Logan_> what even
<Logan_> wfm locally
<ochosi> dropbox is weird
<Logan_> I'll stick them on my server, one sec
<elfy> mzr: what's up?
<ochosi> i redownloaded
<ochosi> and now it works
<Logan_> oh
<ochosi> makes you feel stupid
<Logan_> haha
<ochosi> cause you kinda start thinking "am i too dumb to dl a file?"
<mzr> elfy: just looking to get involved, trying to figure out where I can help
<elfy> ok - that's cool - how long are you about for - because in about 12 days I'll be winding up to start all over again 
<Justanick> Is there an option, that Xubuntu doesn't react on a closed lid (laptop) at the moment the system is shutting down?
<Justanick> It is not very funny, if the system changes to standby at the shutdown process. ;)
<ochosi> Justanick: first off, this is not the support channel
<ochosi> so ideally /join #xubuntu
<elfy> mzr: if you mean now - then we're concentrating on upgrade testing with RC in a few days time
<mzr> whenever and I'm available past the 17th
<ochosi> Logan_: looks good to me
<Logan_> ochosi: sweet, I'll upload :)
<elfy> mzr: that's great - hang about in here when you can then, I'm looking to get some ideas for what we could do differently next cycle, but I'm not aware of how closely you followed us this cycle
<ochosi> Logan_: i've obviously been using that version all along, but i can't see any regressions in your package :)
<elfy> ochosi: you want me to check on this one?
<mzr> not too closely, sorry, a bit late to that party
<elfy> mzr: so keep an eye on the m/l and the blog too
<elfy> ok - that's fine - neither did I till I started :)
<ochosi> elfy: nah it's fine, i've really tested this for a while. only the tiny patch for the dialogs was done today
<ochosi> elfy: you'll get to test it soon when Logan_ has uploaded it ;)
<Logan_> just did
<ochosi> weee
<ochosi> nice, thanks a lot!
<elfy> mzr: one thing - if you are good with python then that is very useful - we are wanting to go autopliot for packages 
<mzr> okay, sadly my python's somewhat rusty
<elfy> that's ok - mine is almost completely non-existent - hence needing to get others involved in it :)
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke :)
<Logan_> ochosi: no problem. feel free to poke me with more stuff :)
<ochosi> Logan_: that will certainly happen :p
<elfy> :)
<mzr> kk, any m/l besides the xubuntu-devel i should sign up for?
<ochosi> Logan_: just to get you in the loop a little: we're still working on a patch for xfce4-indicator-plugin to get the latest changes of ayatana indicators playing nicely with xubuntu (upstart jobs)
<elfy> mzr: that's where I send stuff 
<elfy> but I also talk in here - at length sometimes ... 
<mzr> any usual times?
<elfy> and I use the blog - and also pleia2 puts QA stuff on social media 
<elfy> mzr - I work week on/off - so it cycles between early am and later pm to all day 
<elfy> I'm usually in the channel - if I'm marked away - then I am 
<mzr> kk, guess I'll check the logs if I need to
<elfy> ok - well - at the cycle start I'll be making an overview of what I'm going to be pushing at- nice to see you around, hope to see you again 
<ochosi> Logan_: there already is an updated version of our patch in this PPA: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<ochosi> Logan_: in case you're familiar with it or just wanna take a look
<ochosi> but anyway, we wanna get this one finalized and uploaded asap too
<mzr> cya, thx elfy
 * pleia2 coughs and updates social media with upgrade testing real quick
<elfy> ochosi: by the way - I appear to get this black screen after suspend if logs are wanted
<elfy> pleia2: thanks :)
<ochosi> elfy: after suspend after login?
<elfy> I didn't send it to -testers today :(
<elfy> ochosi: yea login - do some things - suspend - come out of suspend, login - black screen
<ochosi> elfy: have you tried the workaround suggested on the mailinglist recently?
<ochosi> there was a thread where this issue was described
<ochosi> just to figure out whether you have the same issue
<Logan_> ochosi: awesome, let me know when you need it sponsored
<ochosi> Logan_: great, i just discussed with bluesabre on g+ about this, he'll do the review tonight so i think sponsoring can be done tomorrow ideally
<elfy> ochosi: nope - not looked tbh, I'll look and see if it is the same thing - but I don't normally suspend, just tried it
<Justanick> That auto hiding of the top panel is still broken. But xfce4-panel -r is still fixing the problem.-
<ochosi> elfy: the second thing that would be nice to try is to disable lock-on-suspend (in light-locker-settings, xfpm and xfce4-session)
<ochosi> elfy: just to see whether light-locker is causing this
<Logan_> xfce4-terminal sets interesting names for its tabs
<elfy> ok - I can do that now 
<Logan_> right now it's "Terminal - Terminal - Terminal - Terminal..."
<ochosi> yeah, theoretically you can rename them though
<ochosi> which is nice if you have a terminal app that you bind to a shortcut
<ochosi> the drop-down terminal mode is also really nice, in case you haven't seen that yet
<ochosi> Logan_: oh, btw, there's also a new bugfix release of xfdesktop (4.11.6) that addresses a few of the bugs we're seeing in xubuntu
<ochosi> in case you wanna package and upload that one
<ochosi> although i dunno whether that'd go through debian first
<Logan_> looks like we're already carrying a delta for xfdesktop4
<Logan_> although they have our current version in experimental
<ochosi> yeah, we're shipping many parts of xfce4.11
<ochosi> which is actually a development release number
<ochosi> but the hope is that 4.12 gets released soonish, so 14.04 can get upgraded to that, instead of us having to maintain an older version in the LTS
<Logan_> I just rebased xfdesktop4 on Debian experimental, because why not
<elfy> ochosi: so if I set lls to NOT lock on suspend, xpm to suspend on lid close and xfce4-session to not lock on suspend
<Logan_> maybe Jackson can import the new upstream later
<elfy> ochosi: result is lock screen when it comes back from suspend and a black screen after I unlock it
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, but you also have to tell xfpm not to lock on suspend
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-04-07-214320.php
<brainwash_> or don't suspend by closing the lid :D
<ochosi> Logan_: yup, sounds like a plan
<brainwash_> ochosi: we got some potential changes for x-d-s (default keybinds)
<brainwash_> control -> primary
<ochosi> you mean on LTS upgrades?
<brainwash_> and primary-alt -> alt-primary
<brainwash_> I mean that they have changed it upstream some time ago
<ochosi> does it make a difference?
<brainwash_> not sure they, it might mess with the user kb shortcut file later on
<brainwash_> woops
<brainwash_> not sure yet
<brainwash_> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/commit/?id=084d79c43fa7bbb5c284808927a99808d85dc925
<brainwash_> it should work with older configs
<brainwash_> 2012-12-30
<brainwash_> :D
<brainwash_> so it might not be a necessary change
<ochosi> yeah, the control->primary shift already happened quite a while ago
<ochosi> anyway, i gotta go
<ochosi> brainwash_: if you can help elfy a bit with the debugging, that'd be great
<brainwash_> ok
<ochosi> have a nice evening everyone
<elfy> ochosi: cya
<brainwash_> bye
<brainwash_> bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in linux (Ubuntu) "Black screen after login from suspend in Xubuntu 14.04" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/304308
<elfy> that's how I am set up here - should be not using lock screen 
<brainwash_> indeed
<brainwash_> do you suspend by closing the lid?
<elfy> when I close the lid - open it - unlock screen - password - black screen
<elfy> so it 'appears' to still be using lock screen
<brainwash_> can you please check the "Extended" tab of power manager settings?
<elfy> I've not tried just suspend itself
<elfy> brainwash_: yep - will do - just rebooting
<brainwash_> oh, you could switch to tty1 and restart lightdm
<elfy> missed the one on the extended tab
<brainwash_> all 3 checkboxes will be synced soon :)
<elfy> suspending with lid close
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> ok that comes straight back to the desktop 
<brainwash_> black desktop?
<brainwash_> :P
<elfy> nope - all fine
<brainwash_> that's nice
<elfy> other than the bloke up the road has just opened my laptop up to see what I'm up to :D
<elfy> so that all works - but is security less 
<brainwash_> install xscreensaver... joking :)
<elfy> you want me to get it to fail and restart lighdm?
<brainwash_> nah, I mean you can try to restart lightdm instead of rebooting
<elfy> oic - was rebooting for something else :)
<brainwash_> now we need the usual config files
<elfy> upstart ones?
<elfy> from .cache or from /var ?
<brainwash_> both I guess, /var/log/lightdm and maybe .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log
<brainwash_> ideally after the black screen was triggered
<RFleming> are there suspend problems?
<elfy> brainwash_: ok - I'll fail it and get the logs 
<brainwash_> elfy: but manually locking and unlocking via light-locker still works fine, right?
<brainwash_> without suspending
<elfy> no idea - I rarely do it - not checked that at all
<brainwash_> please do :)
<elfy> brainwash_: one thing at a time :) at the moment I have a black screen ... 
<brainwash_> ah ok, no need to hurry
<elfy> just get the logs onto this machine - I hate using laptops ... 
<brainwash_> oh snap, we need to merge another x-d-s branch and I also needs to create an additional one for the keybind refresh
<elfy> manually unlocking and locking screen works fine
<elfy> (light-locker:1802): Gdk-WARNING **: light-locker: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0.
<elfy> maybe ... 
<elfy> brainwash_: so where do you want these logs?
<brainwash_> bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Black screen after login from suspend in Xubuntu 14.04" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<brainwash_> or upload them somewhere else
<brainwash_> if you don't want to spam the report
<elfy> half spammed already ... 
<Unit193> Hmm, looks like I had that.
<brainwash_> :)
<elfy> all added - it's a shame you can't add more than one thing at a time there ... 
<brainwash_> did you try to kill light-locker from tty1?
<elfy> I restarted lightdm from there and that worked
<brainwash_> try to kill light-locker next time it happens
<brainwash_> and then switch to vt7
<elfy> it's not likely to unless I force it to - I'm only doing this to get information :)
<brainwash_> that's great, hopefully we get this fixed in time
<brainwash_> another thing to test: after resuming from suspend don't unlock yet, switch to vt7 and check if light-locker is displaying the "This session is locked. Redirecting to blabla..." screen
<brainwash_> or if the black screen is already blocking the screen
<elfy> so you want me to do it again - then kill lightdm?
<brainwash_> leave lightdm alone! :)
<elfy> when it comes back from suspend the black screen is already there - no way to read anything
<elfy> one other thing I noticed - the screen is dimmer 
<brainwash_> so you've tried it already?
<elfy> no - I just know what it looks like lol 
<brainwash_> please try this
<brainwash_> resume and use ctrl-alt-f7
<elfy> k
<brainwash_> usually it should display an informative message and then automatically switch you back to the greeter screen
<elfy> oh hang on 
<brainwash_> informative message + big lock icon
<elfy> when I resume I get the lock screen - for password entry - enter password - black screen
<elfy> and ctr alt f7 - is the black screen
<brainwash_> don't enter the password
<brainwash_> so the black screen is already on vt7 without unlocking the session?
<elfy> vt7 is black screen 
<elfy> keep forgetting that lock screen is on vt8 :)
<brainwash_> mmh
<brainwash_> last thing to test: run "dm-tool switch-to-greeter; xfce4-session-logout --suspend"
<elfy> in vt something other than 7 or 8 :p
<brainwash_> and make sure light-locker is disabled
<brainwash_> normal terminal window
<elfy> ok
<elfy> ok - at unlock screen now 
<brainwash_> unlock
<elfy> I did - got an autenticate for suspend dialog and a timeout for it 
<elfy> it didn't suspend though 
<brainwash_> oh, well, lets try this "killall light-locker; dm-tool switch-to-greeter"
<brainwash_> and suspend from the greeter screen
<brainwash_> the power menu in the top right corner
<elfy> ok suspended 
<brainwash_> great
<brainwash_> resume and unlock
<elfy> yep - done
<brainwash_> black screen?
<elfy> no
<elfy> straight in from password unlock
<brainwash_> so light-locker is the culprit then
<elfy> nasty
<brainwash_> we already have a similar report
<brainwash_> not a black screen, but an invisible cursor
<elfy> anything else I can do to help debug this?
<brainwash_> after unlocking from suspend
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> night jhenke 
<brainwash_> good night
<brainwash_> elfy: yes
<brainwash_> re-enable lock on suspend
<brainwash_> then run "killall light-locker; light-locker --debug 2> light-locker.log"
<brainwash_> + suspend and so on
<brainwash_> unlock, verify that the black screen is there, restart lightdm and upload light-locker.log
<elfy> brainwash_: suspend by closing lid?
<brainwash_> or via menu
<elfy> no black screen
<elfy> ha ha 
<brainwash_> that's odd
<elfy> so no black screen if suspend from menu, black screen is suspend by closing lid
<brainwash_> can you confirm this?
<brainwash_> I mean does it always work?
<elfy> only did it once
<elfy> I am now at the desktop which is unresponsive
<elfy> it's back now 
<brainwash_> ok, try to trigger the blackscreen again, but always run "killall light-locker; light-locker --debug 2> light-locker.log" before trying it
<elfy> yep - doin git now - first via menu
<brainwash_> so we get a debug logfile
<Noskcaj> If we want to re-include gthumb, i've just uploaded a fixed version.
<elfy> brainwash_: ok - via menu - comes back fine
<brainwash_> what was broken?
<brainwash_> elfy: that's great and strange at the same time
<elfy> ok redoing it to a different log file so we have one good and one broken
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, the menus were all missing
<brainwash_> so it got patched like nautilus and co?
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, no, just reverted to the current stable release
<elfy> brainwash_: shall I spam the lp report with these 2 logs?
<brainwash_> elfy: sure
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: but we dropped it
<brainwash_> should we revert this decision? at this point of the cycle?
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, I'm not sure, since i still don't like having gthumb. But the actual reason it was dropped is now fixed
<elfy> brainwash_: ok - logs added 
<elfy> gave you both - the one from when it worked and the fail one
<Unit193> It was dropped because it wasn't needed, ristretto works well whereas it didn't before.
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, And as i said yesterday, i can't do the abiword work, but i can show you how
<elfy> I see no reason to add gthumb back 
<elfy> now I am off - cya tomorrow peeps
<Noskcaj> bye elfy
<GridCube> the idea behind gthumb is that it provides simple image manipulation, croping, resizing, etc, you dont need a gimp-mastery degree to do any of those things, ristretto can't do that, cant resize cant change formats cant crop. 
<GridCube> and yes, yes, gimp can do all of those things and a whole lot more
<GridCube> but thats like giving a katana to someone who just needs to cut bread
<brainwash_> it's too late
<GridCube> don't say
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: is this a debdiff? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/171376854/abiword_3.0.0-4_3.0.0-4ubuntu0test2.diff.gz
<brainwash_> the diff from my PPA
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, You'll need to run update-maintainer and add some DEP3 headers, but yes
<brainwash_> no clue how to do this
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, you just run the command "update-maintainer"
<brainwash_> trusty or UNRELEASED?
<brainwash_> for the changelog
<Noskcaj> trusty
<Noskcaj> and dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ is how to add dep3 headers, but they ren't really needed
<brainwash_> I'll try that
<Noskcaj> thanks
<brainwash_> want to prepare a branch for xfce4-indicator-plugin?
<brainwash_> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test/+files/xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.3.2-0ubuntu1test2.debian.tar.gz
<brainwash_> contains the experimenal patch
<Logan_> Noskcaj: please update xfdesktop4 to the newest upstream
<Logan_> I'll sponsor
<Noskcaj> Logan_, corsac (debian xfce team) was going to upload it later today, so i'll merge from there
<Logan_> ok
<Logan_> Noskcaj: what's highest prio for me to sponsor right now?
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1298741 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please upload bugfix shimmer-themes-1.7.3" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Noskcaj> or https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/thunar/bugfixes/+merge/214351
<Noskcaj> Thanks for helping us with this Logan_ 
<Logan_> I already did shimmer-themes :P
<Logan_> it's waiting for approval
<Logan_> oh, I should mark that as Fix Committed
<Logan_> stupid queue
<Noskcaj> :)
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: bug 1302571
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<brainwash_> for the xfce4-indicator-plugin patch
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, and the patch is in your ppa?
<brainwash_> yes, I've linked the tar.gz
<Noskcaj> I'll package it once i've fixed the sra-sdk ftbfs.
<brainwash_> it's the patch extracted from http://git.xfce.org/users/ajb/xfce4-indicator-plugin/
<brainwash_> and edited to not run upstart init process twice
<brainwash_> works for me just fine
<Noskcaj> ok. I don't think i have time to package it till tomorrow morning though
<brainwash_> we might change it even a bit, currently it's basically just a hacky workaround and some ifdefs would be great
<brainwash_> but having the branch helps a lot I think
<lderan> forestpiskie, The nvidia stuff hasn't messed up the light locker settings for me, shall continue to find out what is happening tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-08
<bluesabre> Logan_, do you have access to the branches, or just universe?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1290737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290737 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Switch off (dpms) time maybe overwritten by xfce power manager" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Logan_> bluesabre: just universe and multiverse
<Logan_> wait, which branches are you referring to?
<Logan_> I can do lp:ubuntu/<any package in universe/multiverse> as well
<bluesabre> lp:ubuntu/trusty/light-locker-settings
<Logan_> yeah
<bluesabre> equally, we can upload an upload of that version, right?
<bluesabre> also, thanks a bunch for all the uploads today :)
<Logan_> upload an upload? now you're losing me :P
<Logan_> I can merge that, if you want
<bluesabre> yeah, that :D
<bluesabre> my brain gets a bit foggy after working for 12 hours
<Logan_> my brain is always rather foggy
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> brainwash_, you around?
<brainwash_> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> sweet!
<bluesabre> ochosi mentioned indicators to me
<bluesabre> and said your ppa has the fixes
<brainwash_> you want to test or prepare something?
<bluesabre> both... first I'm curious what thing(s) it fixes :)
<brainwash_> it's ali1234's patch
<brainwash_> http://git.xfce.org/users/ajb/xfce4-indicator-plugin/
<brainwash_> so indicator-plugin starts and ends the indicator services
<brainwash_> via upstart
<bluesabre> oh nice
<bluesabre> so no dealing with autostart
<brainwash_> right, the normal autostart launchers were changed
<bluesabre> yeah
<ali1234> brainwash_: you said there was a bug earlier
<brainwash_> ali1234: the upstart init process is launched twice with your path
<ali1234> the bug is really obvious if you look at the code
<ali1234> i meant to move that piece of code but copied it instead
<brainwash_> :D
<ali1234> so it does it twice
<brainwash_> which isn't that bad.. until you logout and not all processes terminate
<brainwash_> so they keep the previous session alive
<ali1234> silly xfce git doesn't allow push -f
<brainwash_> what about your title-less windows patch? I guess it's too late to get it in, but it works fine for me
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/users/ajb/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?h=upstart-init-2
<ali1234> what about it?
<brainwash_> it's done or?
<ali1234> i guess
<brainwash_> like months ago
<ali1234> i don;t use it
<brainwash_> I do.. but I just don't use apps to test it properly
<brainwash_> it works for gthumb with the numix theme
<brainwash_> :)
<Logan_> bluesabre: uploaded
<bluesabre> thanks Logan_ !
<Logan_> no problem :)
<bluesabre> I suppose I'll probably have an indicator upload available in the morning
<bluesabre> brainwash: are you adding the new patch to your ppa?
<brainwash_> maybe, not sure if moving the code block changes anything at all
<brainwash_> ali1234: why did you move the code block to the construct function?
<ali1234> seemed more appropriate
<brainwash_> ok
<brainwash_> bluesabre: I've told Noskcaj to prepare the indicator-plugin branch, so hopefully we don't end up with two branches :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we'll see which one appears first
<bluesabre> I'll check to make sure he hasn't prepared a branch on the side
<bluesabre> looks like we're still in the clear
<Pwnna> wait
<Pwnna> so i have a cron job running every 5 minutes
<Pwnna> but it's not in crontab
<Pwnna> or anywhere in cron.d
<Pwnna> wtf?
<Noskcaj_school> bluesabre: Feel free to fix the indicator issue. I can't do packaging stuff till tomorrow morning, and have to do xfdesktop first
<jhenke> goood morning
<elfy> o/
<jhenke> okay update time
<jhenke> 13.10 -> 14.04, wish me luck ;)
<elfy> :)
<jhenke> hmm interesting: update-manager -d -c
<jhenke> ERROR:root:Could not find any typelib for Dbusmenu
<jhenke> ERROR:root:Could not find any typelib for Unity
<jhenke> WARNING:root:can not import unity GI cannot import name Dbusmenu
<jhenke> but proably not important
<ochosi> morning everyone
<jhenke> moin ochosi
<ochosi> hi jhenke 
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> thanks for being so persistent with the debugging last night
<ochosi> i'll try whether i can reproduce this oddity with the lid
<elfy> you're welcome as always :)
<ochosi> that was a really helpful session you had there
<elfy> if all I can so is grab info for people that can do more - then I'll do that :)
<ochosi> now we "only" have to fix the issue :>
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> indeed ;)
<ochosi> frankly, if this ends up a known issue for 14.04, it'll be fixed in 14.04.1
<ochosi> and we can suggest an easy workaround: disable lock on suspend by default :D
<elfy> which will be easier when the disable buttons sync :p
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> which is about to land though
<ochosi> thanks to Logan_ 
<elfy> yep
<elfy> yea indeed :)
<elfy> takes the pressure off micahg I guess :)
<ochosi> yeah, as soon as we have other ppl with push-rights to our branches
<`Fibz> lock on suspend works fine over here
<jhenke> I also thought the different falvours have control over their specfic branches, seems quite idiotic to have always relay on ubuntu people to push everything
<ochosi> `Fibz: good to hear. also on lid-close?
<`Fibz> dont have a laptop handy. i can report back on that tomorrow
<elfy> ochosi: we going to push your blog post out before release? 
<elfy> or are we going to publish a whole bunch at the same time :)
<ochosi> `Fibz: thanks, that'd be great
<ochosi> elfy: hm, haven't thought of a concrete date, i assumed soon after the release
<ochosi> guess ideally i still have to add two screenshots
<elfy> okey doke 
 * elfy was just wondering 
<ochosi> but i'm open to suggestions
<ochosi> if there are good reasons to publish it beforehands i don't mind
<elfy> well I have had people wanting to know about sound missing when it's locked 
<elfy> and people ARE using the beta now 
<elfy> just a thought 
<ochosi> hmright
<ochosi> i'll talk to knome when he's around
<elfy> ok
<jhenke> the worse thing with such upgrades is the waiting....
<knome> ochosi, elfy: i'm fine with any publishing date
<elfy> hi knome - okey doke - I didn't want to do mine till later anyway - after release at the earliest - was just concerned about a bunch going out at the same time and not being seen until the page gets sorted
<knome> i should get the fixes in ASAP
<knome> i pretty much have them ready locally, but this sickness is slowing me down
<elfy> okay - well don't rush on my account
<knome> heh
<knome> well my intention is to get it in before 14.04 release
<knome> and since it involves the canonical IS, would be better to get it in queue ASAP
<elfy> I can concur with that appraisal of the situation ... 
<jhenke> upgrade looks good so far, but a lot of old config data left behind
<ochosi> that's normal
<jhenke> and the ibus problem
<elfy> yep
<jhenke> after upgrade keyboard layout is en_US
<elfy> we're making a decision on that tomorrow 
<jhenke> light-locker is huge improvement
<jhenke> xscreensaver always looked very out of place
<ochosi> thanks, that is nice to hear
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1
<brainwash> Logan_: hey, what's this xfdesktop4 4.11.5-1ubuntu1 ? :)
<ochosi> i think it's a rebase against debian
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ochosi: did you already read bug 1304064?
<ubottu> bug 1304064 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Light Locker - screen is blank after login when screen was blanked and locked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304064
<ochosi> yeah, apart from this line it seems to be a duplicate: 
<ochosi> Every time it is locked and is blanked, I lose the session to a blank screen after login. 
<brainwash> indeed, a duplicate
<brainwash> locked and blanked... mmh
<brainwash> could it be that xfpm fails to restore the screen brightness?
<brainwash> or messes with it
<elfy> oooh - I was getting that yesterday when fiddling while debugging with you
<brainwash> did you try to restore the brightness manually?
<brainwash> sounds unlikely that this would help
<brainwash> people would have tried that already
<brainwash> ochosi: the kb shortcut changes are not required, but we want to make sure that the shortcut file don't get messed up
<brainwash> elfy: can you confirm bug 1304128?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i think i mentioned that first part in my review
<bluesabre> sheesh
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-indicator-plugin/upstart-init/+merge/214713
<bluesabre> hey Logan_, ^ here's the branch for the indicator-plugin fix.  If you get a chance to upload it today, I'd be grateful :)
<bluesabre> s/upload/merge
<bluesabre> ochosi, brainwash: ta-da!
<brainwash> wait a minute, why don't we simply use an upstart job to start the indicator services? :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: nice
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<elfy> brainwash: I thought we were aware that we're not removing xscreensaver - but that the conf file calls light-locker first now 
<brainwash> elfy: but it should be removed then unless the user (re)installed xscreensaver manually
<elfy> ok - so we need to also remove the bottom panel - because we don't use that anymore, remove gthumb - we don't use that either
<elfy> pretty sure this has all been discussed weeks ago
<knome> elfy, did you notice https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1 ?
<elfy> knome: I did thanks :)
<knome> np
<brainwash> bottom panel might be saved in the user config
<elfy> so will changes someone has made to xscreensaver
<brainwash> I talking about the xscreensaver package
<brainwash> we don't depend on it anymore
<brainwash> same applies for gthumb I guess
<elfy> I know what you're talking about - xflock4 calls light-locker first so it gets used first afaik
<elfy> personally I think there are other things to be worrying about at the moment
<brainwash> ok, but this isn't the problem, xscreensaver runs in the background and does blank the screen
<brainwash> or displays a screensaver
<elfy> no idea - waiting for it 
<brainwash> not a deal breaker, but you know the common (x)ubuntu user
<brainwash> "why are both programs installed?"
<elfy> :)
<elfy> waiting for light-locker to blank the screen after 1 minute ... 
<brainwash> 1 minute is rather short
<brainwash> do you test anything?
<elfy> not when you're waiting for it so you can get on with other stuff it isn't ;)
<elfy> what? 
<brainwash> or what's the deal with the 1minute blank timer?
<ochosi> elfy: since you can reproduce that bug with light-locker, could you try to use unity-greeter (just to rule out that gtk-greeter is somehow involved)?
<brainwash> oh, gtk-greeter does set the timeout to 1 minute in lock mode
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> i mean it works in the normal circumstances, so it'd be odd if it didn't work with suspend, but with this bug i'm not surprised by anything anymore
<ochosi> it seems to be so specific
<elfy> ok - so lightlocker works in an upgraded 12.04 - not worried abou xscreensaver :)
<elfy> ochosi: you mean the suspend with lid close bug?
<elfy> knome: I've just realised that at 6pm on the 17th April I will be on a train - then not about till friday morning
<ochosi> elfy: yes
<elfy> ochosi: ok - I'll do that now
<ochosi> ty
<brainwash> ochosi: should I add bug 1301873 to 14.04.1?
<ubottu> bug 1301873 in Xfwm4 "Add support for title-less windows" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301873
<ochosi> yeah, you can to keep it on the radar
<ochosi> i don't know of many headerbar-apps in 14.04 repos though
<ochosi> and i'd really prefer if this patch was merged upstream first
<brainwash> more will be added most likely
<brainwash> if it becomes popular
<brainwash> mostly from apps installed via PPAs
<knome> elfy, awwh. well, don't worry, we'll make sure things get released etx
<knome> *etc
<elfy> glad I looked first before intalling unity-greeter ... with recommends it wants to use 90Mb of sapce ... 
<elfy> knome: lol - I thought I would let you know :)
<knome> yep, good good
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Final
<knome> started preparing that stuff as well..
<elfy> bookmarked - I'll start fiddling with that too
<knome> known issues in notes are taken from -t-bugs
<elfy> yep 
<knome> things marked with ??? are probably either going away or we don't know much about them yet
<knome> the text body is from the beta 1 announcement
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ochosi: lightdm-set-defaults doesn't work in tahr, not got time atm to work out how to change the greeter to unity - I'll try and get on it later
<ochosi> elfy: just edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<ochosi> and replace "lightdm-gtk-greeter" with "unity-greeter"
<elfy> I thought that too ochosi - except that file no longer exists ... 
<ochosi> woot
<ochosi> sorry, wasn't aware of that
<elfy> ochosi: /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/60-lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf I hope :D
<ochosi> hm, not sure
<ochosi> sry, gotta run
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> ochosi brainwash - well it appears to now use unity-greeter - same issue when suspending with lid close
<brainwash> -_-
<brainwash> killall xfce4-power-manager
<brainwash> and try again
<elfy> suspend from menu - works ok
<elfy> and the brightness was dimmed again
<elfy> suspend with lid close and killall xfce-power-manager
<elfy> NO black screen
<brainwash> did it lock the screen?
<elfy> I needed password yes 
<brainwash> did it actually suspend?
<elfy> dbl checking
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> most likely yes
<elfy> yea - definitely suspended :)
<brainwash> so it's xfce4-power-manager causing the trouble
<elfy> ok - so ctrl+alt+f7 and I get the big screen locked message
<elfy> and a very very short show of that when I unlock 
<brainwash> oh, so the session is unlocked for a brief moment
<elfy> after password entry 
<elfy> just saw the big lock message fleetingly
<brainwash> ah ok
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> we can ignore this
<elfy> yep
<elfy> still have the brightness issue though
<brainwash> even without the power-manager running in the background?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I really wouldn't make stuff up ;)
<brainwash> is the greeter screen also dimmed?
<elfy> not sure - checking
<elfy> yes
<elfy> trying something
<brainwash> did you already update your system today?
<elfy> no
<elfy> well not the one in question
<brainwash> we need xfpm without the syncing of the lock settings for this test case
<elfy> so don't upgrade it?
<brainwash> 1) enable lock on suspend in power-manager and disable it in light-locker 2) vice versa
<brainwash> yes, don't upgrade yet
<brainwash> and run the usual suspend routine for 1) and then for 2)
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> 1 - black screen
<elfy> 2 - comes straight back with no password
<brainwash> thanks for doing so many test runs :)
<RFleming> does this mean suspend will soon work? :)
<elfy> brainwash: that's ok - I'm sat here doing other things on this machine 
<brainwash> RFleming: suspend is not broken
<elfy> if necessary workround is suspend from menu and shut the lid :)
<RFleming> brainwash, on my home laptop it doesn't function.
<elfy> RFleming: from the menu?
<RFleming> either hitting suspend from menu or closing the lid, my machine starts the suspend function and doesn't complete.
<RFleming> locks up the interface where I cannot click, and the only way to get out of it is to go to tty and restart lightdm
<RFleming> all the while the suspend light happily flashes :)
<brainwash> sounds like a different issue
<RFleming> tomorrow I'll try and bring it in.
<brainwash> we were talking about the black screen problem after resuming from suspend (via lid close) + unlocking
<brainwash> so suspend works in this case
<brainwash> but the power-manager seems to trigger a black screen
<elfy> brainwash: we done with testing for the moment?
<brainwash> elfy: yes
<elfy> k
<elfy> so the updates don't fix the disappearing wallpaper yet then ... 
<brainwash> elfy: soon
<brainwash> elfy: this question just came to my mind: do you mean the session logout dialog or the power manager tray icon menu when you mention "suspend via menu"?
<elfy> the one from whiskermenu
<ochosi> brainwash: sry, i couldn't follow all the testing now, does it point towards xfpm being the culprit?
<elfy> ochosi: yea
<ochosi> elfy: so without xfpm everything works just fine?
<elfy> without xpfm I resume straight to the desktop 
<ochosi> but with password/lock-dialog, right?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> ok, we need to re-assign that bugreport then...
<elfy> yep - I went to count sheep shortly after we finished - just woken up 
<ochosi> Logan_: we encountered a nasty packaging problem in parole by the way, the plugins don't get installed correctly. we haven't been able to figure this out for quite a while, would you mind looking at it? (it only affects ubuntu, in debian, everything is fine)
<brainwash> elfy: straight to the desktop with password-dialog?
<ochosi> Logan_: our upstream bugreport (bluesabre and me are the parole devs) explains it a bit: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9904 in General "Notification icon plugin not working" [Normal,Needinfo]
<elfy> brainwash: [14:44] <elfy> 2 - comes straight back with no password
<brainwash> yea, so I'm confused
<brainwash> please suspend via xfpm's tray menu
<Logan_> ochosi: I'll take a look later if I get the chance
<ochosi> Logan_: thanks, that'll be much appreciated. this problem has been plagueing us for ages...
<elfy> brainwash: it'll have to wait till tomorrow now - the laptop isn't in the house now
<brainwash> oh wait... we disabled xfpm's tray icon
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> brainwash, elfy: a little birdy whispered something into my ear: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10535
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10535 in General "power manager does not restore screen power" [Normal,New]
<elfy> I suspended from the only other default option I had
<ochosi> i gotta run again (dinner), but please update the bugreport and link the upstream one if you get a chance
<elfy> ochosi: did that 
<elfy> and marked as a dupe
<ochosi> ty, bbl
<brainwash> elfy: but didn't everything work fine with xfpm running in the background after unchecking all the "lock on suspend2 checkboxes?
<elfy> brainwash: the only way to get it to work fine is suspend from a menu or kill xpfm
<elfy> biab
<brainwash> elfy: "2 - comes straight back with no password"
<GridCube> brainwash, i can't test right now, but as i've disabled the xfpm to start automatically, and i assume its not working (again cant check) the login screen from lightlocker sent me directly to the desktop
<GridCube> that was the 4 times i waked the computer yesterday
<Logan_> ochosi: can you give me a testcase?
<brainwash> GridCube: thanks for confirming
<GridCube> brainwash, it did asked my password, (and once the lightlocker password box was there but the screen brightness was 0% so i was basically black)
<GridCube> but after typing the password the desktop was normal
<GridCube> i just wish i could stop it from suspending :(
<starrats> I updating/upgrading and lost the wifi in the middle of upgrading libreoffice and i was down for about 20 minutes. could not get back on and then i went into the rceovery mode to see if i could there and now back on again 
<starrats> I only stated this because this is the second time this has happened to me, but i blame the connection loss this time last time it was numerous things that went wrong all at once.
<ochosi> Logan_: well simply put: the version of parole that we ship in xubuntu has non-functional plugins, because they end up in the wrong place
<ochosi> Logan_: if you install the package from debian in ubuntu, it just works
<ochosi> elfy: quick question on all the complicated testing (you should've written down all the scenarios and the results btw, as a notice for next time ;))
 * elfy was the guinea pig ... 
<ochosi> did things work out fine when you unchecked lock-on-suspend *only* in xfpm but left it checked in xfce4-session
<elfy> no hands - just feet ... 
<ochosi> true, it's brainwash's fault
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> blame brainwash :)
 * ochosi does
<elfy> I can't remember tbh
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> but the laptop is back now though ;)
<ochosi> you know, that means we might have to send you through this hell once more...
<ochosi> but this time take notes of every testcase with result
<ochosi> could do a google spreadsheet
<ochosi> or something alike
<elfy> booting it now
<elfy> little one came back earlier than expected
<elfy> ochosi:  unchecked lock-on-suspend *only* in xfpm but left it checked in xfce4-session - result is resumes to desktop 
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> then it might really be a problem of xflock getting called twice
<ochosi> could you also try the other way round?
<ochosi> uncheck in session and check in xfpm
<elfy> that comes back - BUT cursor is invisible
<elfy> just going to confirm that
<brainwash> bug 1297144
<ubottu> bug 1297144 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Invisible cursor after resume from suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297144
<elfy> thanks brainwash 
<elfy> actually  uncheck in session and check in xfpm - black screen
<elfy> not sure how I got the other issue
<brainwash> uncheck in power-manager and session
<elfy> confirmed that last one twice
<elfy> straight to desktop
<brainwash> with unlock screen?
<elfy> no - straight to desktop
<brainwash> so light-locker's lock on suspend is disabled?
<elfy> no - enabled
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> elfy: I did expect that the screen gets locked
<elfy> so did I 
<brainwash> so we know now that the black screen is only triggered if you tell xfpm to lock on suspend
<elfy> I just did session on, lls on, xfpm off - straight to desktop
<elfy> I expected that to need password
<brainwash> we can ignore the session one, because you suspend via lid close
<elfy> I'm just going to work through them all and write them down for 30 minutes
<brainwash> might be not needed
<ochosi> elfy: please do that
<brainwash> but got all info, don't we?
<ochosi> brainwash: tomorrow or in ~1hr you'll have forgotten everything about these testcases again and then poor elfy has to do them once again
<ochosi> yeah, but we might have to explain it to others as well
<ochosi> best to just have it in a table
<ochosi> with the conditions in columns
<ochosi> and the testcases in rows
<brainwash> xfpm inhibits logind and that might be reason why light-locker is not triggered via dbus on suspend
<brainwash> and xfpm does some mysterious things when it calls xflock4 on suspend
<brainwash> which triggers the black screen
<brainwash> running xfpm with its lock checkbox unchecked works fine
<ochosi> i think it spawns xflock on the cmdline tbh
<elfy> the long and short of it is - any combination that includes xfpm being enabled and a lid close gets you a black screen
<elfy> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmA-9EbkJPYddDVzSk5RdHotTVpRMlc5aGFicDJ2X0E&usp=sharing
<elfy> ochosi brainwash ^^
<ochosi> thanks elfy
<ochosi> that's exactly what i was thinking of
<elfy> good :)
<elfy> it does seem to prove this afternoons pointing at xfpm 
<ochosi> yeah, the code is really complex for that part
<ochosi> lots of places that interact with the suspend and lid-close events
<elfy> how surprising ... 
<elfy> oh - that was all with unity-greeter by the way - but it's the same with our's 
<ochosi> yeah, that's good to know
<ochosi> so lightdm-gtk-greeter is not at fault
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> btw, one last test
<ochosi> if you can
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> just an idea, what if you close the lid and then switch to e.g. VT2 and kill xfce4-power-manager
<elfy> with which permutation of them all
<elfy> not all of them ... that'd not be one test ;)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> no, just with one of those that reproduces the error
<ochosi> as you correctly said, all permutations seem to point to the same culprit
<elfy> nope - black screen
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> added it to the doc
<elfy> unity-greeter in Xubuntu - starts that horrid aubergine colour and morphs to a nice blue :)
<ochosi> :)
<Logan_> unity-greeter still looks somewhat odd with Xubuntu
<elfy> it does :)
<ochosi> yeah, doesn't really fit
<ochosi> Logan_: i take that as a compliment for lightdm-gtk-greeter btw ;)
<Logan_> not at all :P
<Logan_> lightdm-gtk-greeter looks like a relic from Windows 95
<Logan_> but I'll deal
<elfy> ochosi: oh - by the way - it was that /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/60-lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf file btw
<Logan_> http://cl.ly/image/1z0R3p0o1N3S
<Logan_> is it supposed to look that awful? :P
<ochosi> Logan_: ouch, noooo!
<elfy> mine doesn;t look like that at all 
<ochosi> Logan_: i'll post a screener in a sec
<ochosi> elfy: thanks, will remember
<elfy> ochosi: I has a screenie
<ochosi> sure post it
<ochosi> as long as it looks perrty :)
<elfy> well it's not default ... 
<ochosi> oh :)
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/304670
<ochosi> ah well, it's greybird
<ochosi> and close enough to default
<elfy> and that's actually a photo ... 
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> haha
<elfy> did you want another theme - do I have to go wallpaper less again ... :)
<ochosi> no, it's fine
<ochosi> this is looking good
<elfy> oh good :)
<elfy> Logan_: the screenie up a few lines is how it looks for me 
<ochosi> (and everybody else)
<Logan_> what on earth is wrong with my setup? :P
<Unit193> Logan_: What's in your /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf ?
<ochosi> this is closer to default: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-04-08-215739.php
<ochosi> elfy: and also a photo ^
<elfy> awesome photo's we have ochosi :D
<ochosi> elfy: s/photo's/photos/
<Logan_> Unit193: oh, I think I see the problem :P
<ochosi> brainwash: if you're around, mind to put the cursor-unhide branch of light-locker in your PPA?
<Logan_> can someone pastebin me their /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf ?
<ochosi> Logan_: just grab the file from xubuntu-default-settings
<Logan_> apparently I'm still using the one from when I installed Lubuntu...
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/z1up8Nbf
<ochosi> e.g. sudo apt-get install xubuntu-default-settings --reinstall
<elfy> and that from defualt
<ochosi> or from the bzr branch of x-d-s
<Unit193> Logan_: That should be a link to the one in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/
<Unit193> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 55 Oct 31 21:01 /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf -> /etc/alternatives/lightdm-gtk-greeter-config-derivative
<Unit193> (Well, and) lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 53 Oct 31 21:01 /etc/alternatives/lightdm-gtk-greeter-config-derivative -> /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<Logan_> ah
<Logan_> that's better :)
<elfy> Logan_: :)
<ochosi> brainwash: and secondly, could you put xfpm in your PPA (from xubuntu) but with this patch: http://dpaste.com/1774505/
<elfy> then tell elfy when it's there and he'll do them all again he suspects :(
<ochosi> darn, elfy is too clever...
<ochosi> :D
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> ofc not, just start with one of those that fails
<elfy> yea :)
<ochosi> and then complete all the ones that failed
<ochosi> the rest should still be fine
<elfy> yea :0
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> ideally you'll get both patches, invisible cursor and blank screen
<elfy> I only got that once - and then couldn't reproduce it 
<elfy> inviscursor
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> then we'll have to find a different guinea pig :'(
<elfy> ochosi: you will for invisicursor -unless I can reproduce it somehow
<elfy> I'll suspend it till tomorrow and see if that does it
<ochosi> was the suspend-time somehow related to that?
<elfy> "I wake up the computer after it spending some time in the suspend state, the cursor will be invisible"
<ochosi> hmm,right
<elfy> I assume this is affecting more than the one person
<elfy> is it my imagination or have more people washed up on our shores this cycle wanting to get involved?
<ochosi> no, i think that observation is true
<ochosi> although we had a few dire cycles, with few ppl showing up
<ochosi> so an increase was easy to achieve
<ochosi> Logan_: btw, was my testcase clear enough or were you expecting something else?
<Logan_> I'm not sure if I'd be able to fix that, tbh
<ochosi> why's that?
<Logan_> you'd need someone more experienced in packaging from scratch
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> know anyone by chance?
<Logan_> infinity is good with stuff
<Logan_> (I hope that was a good enough recommendation)
<ochosi> right, i'm just worried that ppl whom i don't know and who aren't associated with xubuntu in any way simply won't care enough
<ochosi> and ppl are busy usually
<ochosi> Noskcaj: hey, how's xfdesktop's release coming along?
<Noskcaj> branching the code now
<ochosi> oh cool
<Logan_> fair enough
<Logan_> I'll do my best
<Logan_> want to do a bit of reading first, though
<Noskcaj> but corsac just uploaded it to debian, so since we've still got a day to spare, i might wait till i can merge
<Noskcaj> Logan_, What's the issue?
<ochosi> Logan_: sure, this is such a longstanding issue there's no real rush
<ochosi> Noskcaj: the parole plugin packaging issue
<Noskcaj> ?
<ochosi> parole's plugins don't work in xubuntu
<ochosi> even though they do in debian
<ochosi> if you install the debian package in ubuntu, the plugins work
<Logan_> lemme compare the file lists
<ochosi> somehow they seem to end up in the wrong place
<Logan_> I'll do a debdiff
<Logan_> ochosi: there's literally no difference in the file lists
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it's puzzling
<Logan_> except for a language thingamajig and the changelog
<Logan_> can I have an STR? :P
<Logan_> like, what should I do to reproduce the issue
<ochosi> just try to open the plugin dialog in parole in your stock xubuntu
<Logan_> because I've never used parole
<Logan_> or been on parole
<ochosi> it'll fail
<Logan_> but I digress
<ochosi> :)
<Logan_> okay it opened
<ochosi> then install the package from debian and it'll work
<Unit193> What I came up with, it's something with either dh_configure, or maybe buildflags.
<ochosi> well, try to activate one
<Logan_> plugin failed to load
<ochosi> Unit193: oh, you're around, would be much better if you took this
<Unit193> ochosi: No, Logan_ is far better than I am. :)
<ochosi> Logan_: yup, it doesn't find the plugin
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, but you're better than me and you've looked at this before as well
<Logan_> stop flattering me, Unit
<ochosi> Unit193: i meant: if you take *my* part, not his ;)
<Logan_> which is cheering me on?
<Unit193> Tried different stripping too.
<Logan_> kinky
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> you packagers are weird ppl! :D
 * elfy shuts his eyes are wanders off 
<Logan_> let me do some experimentation
 * elfy shuts his eyes and wanders off again
<Logan_> okay, that one wasn't on purpose, I swear! :P
<Unit193> Mhmm...
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> I even started doing a diff of the build logs, but as one was 32bit and the other was 64, I got busy with other things and never looked.
<Logan_> un momento
<Logan_> I have an unstable and a trusty chroot, so I'll build the same package in both
<Logan_> and I'll compare the logs
<ochosi> thanks for the effort Logan_ 
<ochosi> bbiab
<Logan_> ochosi: I'm in over my head, haha
<Unit193> Yey!  Not just me. :)
 * elfy too - so much I've no idea what you're talking about ;)
<Noskcaj> Logan_, Did you end up getting a build log diff?
<Logan_> it wasn't awfully helpful
<Logan_> one moment
<Unit193> Well, one bad way to check it, use a hook to grab the debhelper from Debian. :P
<Logan_> it would be in one of the helpers
<Logan_> like dh-shlibs or whatever
<Logan_> no, not that
<Unit193> Logan_: Did you export verbose when you built?
<Logan_> that would probably be helpful
<Unit193> Trying something, in a min.
<Logan_> Noskcaj, ochosi, Unit193: http://www.diffchecker.com/q7xn77oq
<Logan_> same package (from Debian), Trusty on the left, Experimental on the right 
<brainwash> ochosi: updated the ppa
<brainwash> ochosi: your system is not affected by this problem at all?
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks
<ochosi> well it is, but only by the lid-close bug
<ochosi> and i didn't notice for a long time because it seemingly doesn't affect multihead-setups
<ochosi> really specific, that bug.
<brainwash> oh, hopefully we'll get it fixed in time
<ochosi> yup would be good
<ochosi> the invisible cursor one i've never encountered
<ochosi> so the patch is guesswork
<ochosi> or a workaround
<ochosi> brainwash: something is odd with that version you put up
<ochosi> nothing much happens on the lid event anymore
<brainwash> hmpf
<Justanick> Are you talking about the black screen after login after a standby session?
<brainwash> ochosi: kill it and restart it from terminal "xfce4-power-manager --debug"
<brainwash> Justanick: yes
<ochosi> brainwash: it's odd, it still locks on lid close if i set it to do that, but suspend doesn't work anymore. maybe missed a compile flag?
<Justanick> Also affect. If you need any information.
<brainwash> ochosi: that's strange
<brainwash> it's just a rebuild + patch
<ochosi> brainwash: i understand, not sure what to say
<ochosi> does it work for you?
<ochosi> to some extent, this version also "fixes" the bug :p
<brainwash> my desktop pc lacks a lid to close :)
 * Unit193 trying something else.
<brainwash> ochosi: does the official ubuntu version work properly?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> Unit193: still? that was a loooong minute
<Unit193> ochosi: Heeey, I was doing other stuff too. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: suuuuure :)
<Unit193> Reviewing logs, fixing VM to test it, watch an episode of something, etc, etc. :P
<Unit193> Also, I should stop bundleing "fixes" together.
<Unit193> -e
<brainwash> ochosi: I can redo it and then re-upload
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks, that'd be nice
<brainwash> can you install the official one to verify that it works?
<ochosi> well that's what i had before i used your version and that worked
<ochosi> i mean suspend on lid-close
<Unit193> Crap, what fixed it?
<ochosi> what fixed what?
<Unit193> parole.
<ochosi> Unit193: oh, so you performed a lot of changes in the packaging and now it just works? :p
<brainwash> ochosi: the diff looks interesting
<brainwash> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/172285540/xfce4-power-manager_1.2.0-3ubuntu4test1_1.2.0-3ubuntu4test2.diff.gz
<brainwash> basically building the same thing
 * ochosi shrugs
<Unit193> ochosi: ...Only a few. :P
<brainwash> does it suspend if you kill xfpm?
<Unit193> I'll have a package for you in a sec, got to get pizza and coffee.
<ochosi> sry guys, gotta hit the sack now, have a big day tomorrow
<brainwash> good night
<Unit193> But, but, but. :(
<ochosi> Unit193: but you need your coffee and pizza and i need my sleep...
<Justanick> Night
<Unit193> Logan_, ochosi: https://unit193.net/parole_0.6.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb <--- Try that.
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1286046 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1168810 are both considered to be https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286046 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in notify_provider_finalize()" [Medium,Triaged]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168810 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not show tray icon on notification area" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9904 in General "Notification icon plugin not working" [Normal,Needinfo]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-09
<starrats> Don't know if this is a 'bug report' or not but I'm still experiencing a 'lock-out on login/password screen after a major update/upgrade when it rerquests a re-start to complete the action.
<bluesabre> Unit193... it works O.O
<Unit193> bluesabre: Of course it does, I'm better than Logan_. ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> (Hah, juuust kidding, he wins.)
<bluesabre> what did you change? :)
<Unit193> I was on the right track, just wrong change.  dpkg-buildflags uses -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions in Ubuntu but not Debian, so in the rules file I exported LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro and rebuilt.  (Spotted it in the diff he linked to.)
<bluesabre> aha
<Unit193> (Note, that may not be the proper change, but it's a test at least.)
<bluesabre> if it works, its better than what we have now ;)
<Unit193> Now, I need to bookmark that site, because that's a nice diff tool.
<bluesabre> well, if we are happy with it, I can toss it into a PPA and request some testing
<Logan_> Unit193: I figured it had something to do with that
<Unit193> bluesabre: See? ^  Already knew.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/75380 This is what I used.
<Unit193> Logan_: Another oddity, the libdrm include.
<Logan_> Unit193: that's because it's a B-D of something else in Debian but not in Ubuntu
<Unit193> Yes, but adding the dep didn't include it, not even sure it's needed for anything.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Is there a need to test it?
<bluesabre> I don't think so
<bluesabre> I mean, it works :D
<bluesabre> I'll make a branch with that and poke Logan_ to merge it ;)
<Logan_> sure :)
<Unit193> Is this something we can push to Corsac? :/
 * Unit193 liked that parole would sync.
<bluesabre> we can try
<bluesabre> done, poked Corsac
<bluesabre> and put the ball in Unit193's court
<Unit193> Hah, like I know anything. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> more than I do in this instance
<Unit193> So, I'm done with the parole thing right?  I don't need to do anything else with it since you seem to have it from here?
<bluesabre> most likely
<bluesabre> I might poke/ping you two more times
<starrats> should i file a bug report?
<bluesabre> hey starrats
<bluesabre> what do you mean by that 'lock-out'?
<bluesabre> brb, rebooting my server to fix ssl
<starrats> well my cursor is free but when I try to put in my password it won't let me just a flashing line then goes solid
<bluesabre> starrats, that sounds odd
<bluesabre> go ahead and file a bug, we'll look into it
<starrats> okay
<starrats> I know it's odd and only happens after a large update/upgrade session on term
<jhenke> good morning
<brainwash> ochosi: did you test the new xfpm upload?
<Noskcaj> Can someone please propose https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfdesktop4/4.11.6 for merging?
<Noskcaj> My launchpad won't log in
<brainwash> lp broken?
<brainwash> Invalid OpenID transaction
<Noskcaj> yep
<brainwash> now it worked
<elfy> brainwash: no inviscursor on this - can't help with that one ... 
<brainwash> but you are a black screen expert :)
<brainwash> I've uploaded power-manager + ochosi's test patch
<elfy> ok - when I'm on a real install I will look at that then :)
<brainwash> but he claimed that it's somewhat broken, because suspend via power-amaner stopped working for him
<elfy> ok - well I'm all up for breaking it if at all possible :D
<brainwash> so I've rebuilt and re-uploaded the same thing
<elfy> lol
<Noskcaj> Unit193, That patch for parole could end rather badly
<Noskcaj> since you broke hardening, and the various existing flags
<brainwash> did he reveal the patch? :)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: That's kind of the point, "breaking" existing flags.
<Noskcaj> ok. because relro is on anyway.
<Unit193> Did you check?  Is hardening disabled?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I didn't check, i'm just looking at your patch
<Noskcaj> And pretty much repeating what corsac said
<Unit193> ...He hasn't said anything.  Also, I did kind of say this was good enough to test, but beyond that...
<Noskcaj> Unit193, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904#c10
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9904 in General "Notification icon plugin not working" [Normal,Needinfo]
<Unit193> Right, he missed that it's trying to disable a default flag, I think.  But yes, I was hoping for a better way to disable it.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> Is indicator-messages broken with the latest update?
<elfy> brainwash ochosi : installed xfpm from brainwash's ppa, still black screen where it was failing yesterday
<brainwash> elfy: I assume that you've restarted xfpm before doing the test run, right?
<elfy> machine had been out of xubuntu and into windows and out again
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to proceed on that?
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> Not quite, still waiting for a better way. :/
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: Could try to push it anyway, can't think of a better way.
<bluesabre> want to comment on the bug? Corsac is pretty stubborn about his packages and I really don't "get" what's going on
 * Unit193 wonders if bluesabre, the upstream, can fix it so it compiles with -Bsymbolic-functions :P
 * bluesabre wouldn't even know where to start
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=570617
<ubottu> Debian bug 570617 in user-mode-linux "Filtering -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions out of LDFLAGS" [Wishlist,Open]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Does https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025367.html help you at all?
<bluesabre> O.o
<bluesabre> I think weak symbols is how parole's plugin system is designed
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> it creates a plugin instance
<bluesabre> then drops in the plugins functionality, overriding the previously defined methods
<Unit193> That's weird, but alright.
<bluesabre> I didn't design it
<bluesabre> if it were up to me, I'd use totem's python plugin system
 * Unit193 blames bluesabre for not changing it. :P
<bluesabre> and I suppose it is
<Unit193> Eww, python. :P
<bluesabre> but thats a lot of work
<Unit193> bluesabre: Read about pyston?
<bluesabre> nope
<Unit193> (Also, think I came up with something I like out of a test env.  Trying it now.)
<bluesabre> wait a sec
<bluesabre> pyston is a new thing
<bluesabre> yet they target python 2.7
<bluesabre> kill me
<bluesabre> kill -9 1
<Unit193> killall5 ?
<bluesabre> oh, but its being developed by the dropbox folks
<bluesabre> so thats a good thing
<Unit193> bluesabre: Fixed it in a way I'd feel OK pushing to the Archive and to Corsac. :)
<bluesabre> oh
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/v1RMkdv0fJ8JNCU6i3Yk/ push that to Log an?
<bluesabre> I'll ping Corsac with the new version :)
<Unit193> Okay.
<bluesabre> sound reasonable?
<bluesabre> So, with the above rules, -Bsymbolic-functions flag is removed as it breaks parole.
<bluesabre> Referring to this write-up, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025367.html
<bluesabre> Rewriting Parole's plugin architecture would be a huge undertaking.  Parole relies on weak symbols to initialize a plugin.  Here, a base plugin's interface is overridden by the actual plugin's functionality. the -Bsymbolic-functions flag completely breaks that. Adding this protection to the packaging ensures that plugins will continue to build correctly even when default build flags are altered (as they are in Ubuntu).
<brainwash> Noskcaj: finally xfdesktop4 4.11.6, thanks!
<brainwash> you can close bug 1302101 then
<ubottu> bug 1302101 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop background turns to a dirty white color after switching theme" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302101
<bluesabre> brainwash, Noskcaj: huzzah! :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: As long as it's helpful to link to that, sure.
<bluesabre> it is for me
<bluesabre> that helped me understand the source of the issue
<Unit193> Great!  Glad I could be helpful. :)
<bluesabre> and why it never happens when building normally
<Unit193> Also, see x-dev?
<brainwash> elfy: looks like we need a different approach to fix this, I've uploaded xfpm + another patch which tweaks the timings when triggering the lock screen
<Unit193> brainwash: Status of xfce4-indicator-plugin and indicator-service-start event?
<brainwash> waiting to be merged, bluesabre prepared the branch
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-indicator-plugin/upstart-init
<brainwash> instead of hardcoding it, we could use an upstart job to start the indicator services
<brainwash> but our current solution works fine too
<bluesabre> Unit193: <Corsac> also, would it not be possible to remove the linker flag from the build systems itself, so it gets removed only for plugins, not for the whole stuff (or would it need to be removed for the main binary, actually?)
<bluesabre> I'm thinking no, but how would something like that be done from the d/rules?
<brainwash> wow, so many uploads (thunar, xfdesktop4, xfwm4)
<Unit193> bluesabre: That'd be somehow in the makefile, no?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/sy6gQIx34EWDeXxJe3Ds works for me.
<Unit193> Upstart job does make sense, unless you don't use a user session (can you do this?)
<bluesabre> if yes, dunno where or how :)
<bluesabre> I'll check it out tonight
<bluesabre> RC tomorrow, let me know if there is anything I need to focus my efforts on next
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> brainwash: sorry, no testing for me until maybe next week, i'll be mostly afk
<brainwash> ochosi: ok :/
<RFleming> Good day!
<RFleming> Quick question.  Lately it seems when I apply updates, I'm losing my wallpaper and am left with plain grey
<RFleming> I'm using the default 14.04 xubuntu-wallpaper
<starrats> RFleming this is also happening to me but i have imported a few photos to be my wallpaper. 
<elfy> RFleming: fix is in pipeline
<starrats> so I need not to add to my bug report on this elfy?
<elfy> me too existing bugs where they exist please
<RFleming> elfy, what's the bug #?
 * RFleming REALLY needs to learn how to use launchpad
<starrats> I filed a bug report last night per bluesabres request on my problem and the plain gray screen is part of that, just forgot to add it in the comment section of the report
<RFleming> elfy, starrats I've been using the lack of a background as a 'notice' to reboot :)
<brainwash> please install the latest updates
<starrats> brainwash who?
<brainwash> both of you
<starrats> ok
<brainwash> after doing so and relogging once bug 1302101 should be fixed
<ubottu> bug 1302101 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop background turns to a dirty white color after switching theme" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302101
<starrats> updaste is finished for me, but when i run upgrade right after update that's when my screen will turn 'dirty white' and then i get locked out from logging back in and it takes afew times 
<starrats> to get bak on
<starrats> that is the bug report i filed last night
<elfy> I think that you have got serious issues if you still have this being locked out issue
<starrats> this is of course after i re-started my comp from running those two in term.
<starrats> my cursor is 'free' now so i don't know
<starrats> this morning I got on te first time so i think there's another issue elfy
<brainwash> Logan_: hey, are you in the mood to prepare yet another bugfix release?
<brainwash> Logan_: if yes, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0 - we got 3 patches for abiword
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy :)
<elfy> not sure where we got to with this suspend thing - to recap, I upgraded to your ppa version - logged out - no difference with lid close
<brainwash> apt-cache policy xfce4-power-manager?
<brainwash> which version
<elfy> you want me to turn it on again lol
 * elfy wanted to debug with a guessing game today :D
<brainwash> check your apt-get history then
<elfy> 1.2.0-3ubuntu4
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<elfy> it's not this machine :) this is like yours - no lid ;)
<starrats> just finished my upgrade and the screen went dirty white half way through the upgrade.  
<mzr1> a laptop....with no lid....*mind blown*...
<elfy> starrats: yes it will - just do it and then logout/in and it will be fixed
<starrats> ok
<brainwash> desktop pc
<brainwash> :D
<starrats> why though elfy does it do that?
<starrats> tell me after I log back in
<elfy> brainwash: afaik that's the one from your ppa
<xnox> so the debian splash is comming from usr/share/wallpapers/joy_inksplat/contents/screenshot.png
<brainwash> it's the fallback option, or?
<xnox> where is the desired background?
<xnox> (on the cd)
<Logan_> brainwash: I'll take a look at abiword later today
<xnox> found it in /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops
<brainwash> Logan_: thanks :)
<brainwash> xnox: installed by the package xubuntu-artwork
<brainwash> xnox: did http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/6044 break it?
<xnox> brainwash: elfy: who/what/where paints the background on a full xubuntu session these days?
<xnox> the debian swoosh is painted by unity-settings-daemon, which doesn't have any key set and it looks like in inherited schemas from debian they do paint backgrounds with gnome-settings-daemon (or at least synchronise the settings there)
<xnox> if there is a xubuntu gsettings schemas overrides package we could fix it there
<elfy> xnox: I'm not sure tbh
<xnox> alternatively we should be loading the desktop wallpaper natively, i thought xsettingsd should do it
<brainwash> xnox: there is, in xubuntu-default-settings
<xnox> but it only loads up a black screen.
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/files/head:/debian/
<xnox> thanks looking.
<brainwash> xnox: so I guess all flavors which don't use gsettings to specify the background should be affected by this problem, or?
<xnox> elfy: brainwash: the "background" override pointing at debian image is comming from desktop-base package which seems to be xfce4 dependency
<xnox> previously there was no unity-settings-daemon nor gnome-settings-daemon on the xubuntu images, and thus something Xfcish painted the background.
<brainwash> sounds rather confusing
<brainwash> so overriding the background value won't help in this case?
<xnox> so i've launched xfce4-settings-manager and it shows that my background is correct - e.g. the mouse picture
<xnox> yet my background is black
<xnox> how come?
<brainwash> in a normal session?
<xnox> no, ubiquity
<brainwash> xfdesktop4 usually paints the desktop background
<brainwash> does "xfdesktop --reload" restore the background?
<xnox> brainwash: that works, but i get icons on the desktop =))))
<brainwash> that means that xfdesktop4 isn't being used in the first place
<xnox> any key i can set to disable icons?
<brainwash> will this affect the live session?
<xnox> no, i'll revert the key
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml
<brainwash> this is the config file for xfdesktop4
<brainwash> now it's getting really confusing :)
<brainwash> and what about lubuntu and co? shouldn't there be solution which works for every flavor?
<brainwash> sadly I'm not familiar with ubiquity at all
<xnox> well it used be gnome-settings-daemon that painting the background. let's tinker further.
<brainwash> what about something simple like feh or hsetroot?
<xnox> oh, there is xsetroot codepath and feh codepaths but i don't want to use them =)
<xnox> i'd rather drop them.
<xnox> let me see.
<brainwash> anything that works would be fine.  we don't want to ship a LTS release and confuse the user with a debian background :)
<elfy> indicator-messages appears to have taken a hit like indicator-sound did
<brainwash> it disappeared?
<elfy> yep - after the recent update/grade - deactivated in autostart apps
<brainwash> kinda expected change
<elfy> because?
<elfy> I thought we were using -messages?
<brainwash> we do, but the autostart launchers for the different indicators have been or will be changed
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-indicator-plugin/upstart-init/+merge/214713
<brainwash> ^
<brainwash> xnox: the init process does not exit immediately, we need to save the PID to kill it on logout
<brainwash> initially we called the init process twice (copy&paste failure), this resulted in an init process still running after logout and there keeping the session alive
<brainwash> therefore
<brainwash> btw lightdm-gtk-greeter and unity-greeter do it the same way
<xnox> brainwash: i'm not involved in that at all.
<xnox> brainwash: i dislike starting indicators via upstart user session only. Imho they should have stayed dbus-activatable.
<brainwash> xnox: indeed :(
<brainwash> but we need to fix this now asap
<xnox> brainwash: also I'm Dimitri and I'm not Dmitry Shachnev (mitya57)  =)
<brainwash> xnox: oh... my fault, sorry
<brainwash> got it mixed up
<xnox> figured as much =)
<brainwash> really stressful days before the final release :D
<elfy> and we still have to finallyt decide to throw ibus out today 
<brainwash> xnox: wow, you've already uploaded x-d-s 14.04.4, thanks a lot :)
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe we should migrate <control> to <primary> before release, see bug 1299637
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1299637 Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<elfy> knome: so it's i-day - my vote is remove ibus 
 * starrats is not a happy camper at this moment, when Trusty tahr is released on the 17th, next week, I will be burning a new image and do a total install hoping all is fixed
<Pwnna> are we fixing that issue with no screen after login anytime soon? i like lightlocker and wish to reenable it
<elfy> what bug number is that?
<elfy> Pwnna: you mean the black screen after suspend one?
<Pwnna> yeah
<Pwnna> power manager doesn't get power.
<Pwnna> elfy: that one
<Pwnna> it's an upstream one
<elfy> if it's the same one as the one we've spent hours on lately - do you get the issue if you suspend from menu? 
<elfy> I can only replicate it as suspend with lid close 
<brainwash> can anyone please re-enable the xfce4-power-manager try icon (settings manager > power manager > show icon always) and then suspend the system via the new tray icon?
<brainwash> someone who can reproduce the black screen issue
<brainwash> elfy: I've noticed that if you set the keyboard layout manually (e.g. setxkbmap de) and then start ibus-daemon, ibus will pick the correct kb layout just fine
<brainwash> so a workaround is possible
<elfy> brainwash: that's as maybe - there are other workarounds possible - at the moment though we cannot use it and it just work 
<elfy> my vote won't be changing ;)
<elfy> if it's fixed by .1 then I don't mind it being put back
<brainwash> we read the system layout config and re-set it via setxkbmap on an early stage of the session startup
<brainwash> sadly it is a bit late for experiments
<brainwash> but a workaround seems to be possible, maybe even a proper solution with this information in minde
<brainwash> mind
<elfy> suspend from tray icon works fine here 
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> elfy: I've installed light-locker on my main system (13.10) and suspend via lid close managed by xfpm works fine here
<elfy> ok 
<brainwash> elfy: can you check light-locker-settings please
<brainwash> is "automatically lock the session" set to "... is deactivated"?
<elfy> auto lock session is set to never
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> time to watch soccer, cya :)
<elfy> cya 
<ochosi> ali1234: comments on the comment from mitya on https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-indicator-plugin/upstart-init/+merge/214713 ?
<Unit193> ochosi: You see the upstart job I created this morning?
<ochosi> sry, no, was busy/away all day
<ochosi> only have a few minutes now, then i have to run off again
<ochosi> so you wanna fix this outside the plugin?
<Unit193> That was the idea brainwash had, I just tried it and it's not bad.
<ochosi> the downside is that then indicators get started no matter what
<ochosi> so if you don't have the plugin in the panel, the services still start
<ochosi> that's a bit meh
<ochosi> and that was the main reason i seconded the inclusion of the job in the plugin
<Unit193> Also, no, it doesn't quit.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> we'd have to patch xfce4-session to send that signal
<ochosi> so meh, let's stick with the plugin solution for now
<ochosi> unless you guys come up with another solution that is nicer
<Unit193> "You guys" :P
<brainwash> you can write a better upstart job
<brainwash> not such a basic one
<brainwash> but there is no need for it :)
<ali1234> bluesabre: i just spotted a bug in the indicator patch...
<ochosi> oh, good that it hasn't been uploaded then
<ali1234> it's a trivial bug that won't actually affect anything
<ochosi> still time to update the merge-request
<ali1234> i will fix the error message too
<ochosi> well there are also those comments about storing PID and error message
<ochosi> so we can amend the patch
<ali1234> libupstart is a bit of a big change this close to release
<ali1234> storing the pid is a requirement
<ochosi> yeah, i think they're aware of that
<Unit193> ochosi: But, he's wrong on that point as it doesn't exit.
<ali1234> yeah ^
<ochosi> right, i didn't read the comment very closely, tbh
<Unit193> Also, anyone else getting resolvconf failing to write any nameserver in /etc/resolv.conf and just blanking it? ;/
<ochosi> mostly wanted to forward it to ali1234 as i wasn't sure whether he's subscribed to it
<ochosi> Unit193: what was the result on parole btw?
<ochosi> only saw some backlog, but not enough time to read it all
<Unit193> ochosi: Uhh, I made it so I like the change now, I don't see why it can't be uploaded.
<ochosi> that sounds good
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/9bRq11DcdahwuW5A7pJv/ something like that (drop the prefixed space.)
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> Logan_: Ready for upload: http://paste.openstack.org/show/CA7tPtWrKXWZ5txofePk or https://sigma.unit193.net/source/parole_0.6.1-0ubuntu2.dsc depending on what you like.
<Logan_> Unit193: tarball plz
<Logan_> meh, I guess it's okay
<Unit193> It's there, dget should find it fine...
<Unit193> Anything else needed?
<Logan_> Unit193: no, not at the moment
<Logan_> although, do you know why it works?
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904#c12  And, \o/
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9904 in General "Notification icon plugin not working" [Normal,Needinfo]
<Logan_> ah, I see
 * Unit193 seemingly actually knows something, even if he doesn't use parole at all. :D
<Logan_> Unit193: uploaded
<Logan_> thanks for your help, Unit :)
<Unit193> Logan_: Thanks for all your help!
<Logan_> yup, no problem
<Logan_> I should really study for this exam ugh
<Logan_> #collegeproblems
<Unit193> Hah, before it hits #ohcrapnotthattimeagain. :P
<Logan_> yup :/
<Logan_> I'm thinking of improving my description on Launchpad
<Logan_> but then again no
<Noskcaj>  Logan_ once you give up studying, can you look at lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563  ?
<knome> can agree with elfy; we should probably drop ibus and reintroduce it for .1 if it seems to make any sense (eg. the bug is fixed and there are actually people who are bothered by it not being installed)
<ochosi> knome: +1
<ochosi> thanks a lot for the fix Unit193 
<ochosi> and thanks for uploading, Logan_ 
<knome> if we want to dig a bit deeper, we could talk with somebody who actually uses ibus with xubuntu
<knome> and ask them how big inconvenience it would be to have to install ibus
<ochosi> yeah, i guess those ppl will get in touch with us anyhow if ibus isn't there anymore :)
<knome> we don't even seed any languages that would need ibus to input, i guess
<ochosi> does the whole section "input methods" go?
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty/view/head:/desktop#L30
<ochosi> i mean is im-config good for anything without ibus?
<ochosi> oh right, seems unrelated
<ochosi> so only the ibus stuff would go
<brainwash> let it go, let it go!
<brainwash> ochosi: I've installed light-locker on 13.10 and suspend via lid close managed by xfpm works fine for me
<ochosi> hm, is that good news?
<ochosi> sorry that i have to take off again
<brainwash> dunno
<Unit193> ochosi: Sure thing, glad I could help.
<knome> thanks Unit193 
<ochosi> Unit193: since you've tampered with seed files before, in case you wanna take a look at the desktop-seed merge i proposed...
<ochosi> just to be sure
<ochosi> thanks and night!
<Unit193> Sure, but not right now.  Checked to see what depends on it?
<ochosi> nope, that's exactly why i'm asking others to review it ;)
<ochosi> (because i wouldn't have thought of that, not because i didn't want to do the work)
<bluesabre> ali1234: would you say its worthy of a separate merge?
<bluesabre> or has mine been merged yet
 * bluesabre needs to get his ideas in order
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-10
<bluesabre> ok, I see the note now
<bluesabre> Logan_, if you happen to get a free moment, would you mind merging...
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-indicator-plugin/upstart-init/+merge/214713
 * Logan_ looks
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: merged your branch
<Logan_> bluesabre: sorry, forgot to say that I uploaded it
<bluesabre> haha, thanks Logan_
<Unit193> Indeed, thanks.
<bluesabre> brainwash: poke
<Unit193> zequence: What'd you decide to go for, in terms of LTS support timeframe?
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/14.04/LTS-proposal Ah.
<CajunTechie> Hello everyone
<Noskcaj_school> hello CajunTechie. DId you end up finding something to work on?
<bluesabre> micahg, mrpouit: I think xubuntu-meta needs one more refresh
<micahg> bluesabre: ok, I can run that now
<bluesabre> great, thanks a lot micahg!
<bluesabre> need to head to bed now, bbl
<CajunTechie> Noskcaj, Not yet. Still looking to connect with folks.
<bluesabre> micahg: did you get to update xubuntu-meta?
<elfy> bluesabre: do you know what's going on with removing ibus? 
<elfy> all I saw was a comment by knome last night agreeing with me 
<bluesabre> elfy: I merged the branch that removes it
<bluesabre> xubuntu-meta needs refreshed for it to take effect
<elfy> awesome - thanks 
<Unit193> [23:08:50] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Unapproved: xubuntu-meta (trusty-proposed/universe) [2.179 => 2.180] (xubuntu)
<elfy> update mangler has stopped showing up in the last day or so
<elfy> not that I actually use it
<Unit193> Congrats, glad you got rid of it.
<elfy> lol
<elfy> just thinking about 'user a' 
<elfy> really not thinking about people like us 'user z' :)
<Unit193> I think I'm user ã
<jhenke> good morning folks
<elfy> morning
<Noskcaj> the purple software center looks pretty strange with the new whiskermenu layout
<knome> micahg, Unit193: if not else, we can pop in a new release of midori in .1
<knome> what about the abiword stuff?
<knome> the upstream statuses are fix released, will we be picking those fixes?
<Unit193> knome: Wut?
<knome> wut wat
<knome> Unit193, have you got a trusty installation handy?
<Unit193> Not one to break, but yeah.
<knome> can you smoketest https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563/+merge/214365 ?
<Noskcaj> knome, both patches had been tested by others, but i can't
<Noskcaj> local install too broken
<knome> Noskcaj, can you get them leave a comment on the MP?
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> thanks
<Unit193> Nice, so tested already.  The midori talk was in -ot, not here. :P
<knome> Unit193, re: midori: so?
<knome> why should we divert discussion to -ot?
<Unit193> I'm saying, it's not Xubuntu really, not seeded and Debian doesn't have a newer one released, just my usual rambleing.
<knome> yeah, but if it's a nice release, would be nice to get it in
<Unit193> It's no longer released on xfce.org
<knome> aha
<Unit193> So, I'd be glad to have someone else review and fix it the rest of the way, but..
<Unit193> Anything after release would have to be an SRU.
<knome> i acknowledge
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Maybe contact corsac, he maintains midori in debian
<Unit193> Noskcaj: See -ot, no he doesn't.
<Noskcaj> oh
 * Noskcaj nominates Unit193 as the new maintainer
<Unit193> He was only an uploader, not the maintainer.
<elfy> bbl
<Noskcaj> xfburn o.5.2 merge now up
<brainwash> fujiwarat â brainwash: Right, ibus-daemon picks up the current session layout so probably your desktop does not pick up /etc/default/keyboard.
<brainwash> fujiwarat â ibus enables only keymaps in simple.xml and other are considered upon the request. ibus won't check /etc/default/keyboard. It would be the task for desktop.
<brainwash> should drop the kb layout bug report from -bugs after dropping ibus?
<brainwash> maybe also add "xfce4-session" to it and mark as wishlist
<knome> brainwash, should move it to the .1 blueprint and keep the importance
<brainwash> uhm, "right
<knome> any reason you see why not?
<brainwash> it's fine to move it
<brainwash> but we need to add some Xfce component to it, otherwise it's an ibus issue (which may be not fixed according to fujiwarat)
<brainwash> and we have to deal with upgraders
<brainwash> unless ibus is removed during the upgrade process
<knome> my take is...
<knome> either you use ibus, or don't
<knome> if you don't, you don't care about the upgrade process
<knome> if you do, well, you probably just want it to work, and we should be mostly okay by communicating the situation to people
<knome> wait
<knome> i misunderstood
<knome> (or -read)
<knome> yeah, we should take care ibus is removed... i guess.
<knome> or make a mention in the release notes
<knome> the situation is far from perfect, but how do you fix it?
<knome> adding an xfce component or not, we should look at fixing the original bug with .1
<brainwash> true, we need some more time to fix it properly
<knome> i think dropping ibus from the default installation is the best of the bad options we have
<knome> i don't know how we make sure ibus is removed on upgrade
<knome> maybe removing it and everything that depends on it from the seed?
<brainwash> not sure, we removed xscreensaver completely, but still got a report that it did not get removed while upgrading to 14.04
<starrats> ? has Trusty Tahr been given an RC1 status?
<brainwash> the solution is for ibus is very simple, we need to echo the current system kb layout to the session (setxkbmap) before ibus starts
<brainwash> still, if ibus does not know this kb layout, like for example "de (nodeadkeys)", it will fall back to "us"
<brainwash> we can provide the workaround for the first part, but the second part (missing layouts in ibus) will still trouble some people
<knome> starrats, in what way "given" ?
<starrats> RC1 status instead of Beta status , knome as in prior to the release date next Thursday.
<knome> what are you referring to with "RC status"?
<starrats> RC = Release Candidate, a nick on another channel I'm on asked me that and also a discussion going on about what 'x' in xubuntu means, he thinks it is X-Windows like in Xorg and i told him it meant xfce
<starrats> see the link I'm posting and scroll down a bit:   http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/ubuntu-14-04-lts-release-schedule
<knome> afaik, there isn't any special RC images
<knome> if that's what they are asking
<starrats> I know that it was a Ubuntu site but yes on what they were asking
<elfy> no special images afaik either
<elfy> knome: one way or the other we will need to mention ibus in the release notes, depending on if we can remove it on upgrade
<knome> elfy, yep
<knome> elfy, i've added something on the release ntoes
<elfy> ok - not looked yet
<knome> bbl
<pleia2> ochosi: you like g+ want to be another manager of our team? (I'm the only active one, want more for bus factor)
<micahg> knome: no, you can't pop in new versions of midori in point releases, but there's always backports
<micahg> (and it's unseeded anyways)
 * micahg disappears again
<brainwash> elfy: now I fully understand the ibus issue and why it works in gnome/unity
<brainwash> ibus only uses a subset of all the available keymaps, so if a particular keymap is not in the list, it will fall back to "us"
<brainwash> "gb" is not in the list
<brainwash> "gb (extended blabala)" is
<knome> micahg, "can't"?:P
<knome> everything is possible!
<knome> brainwash, how do we add those keymaps into the list?
<brainwash> gnome-settings-daemon asks ibus if it knows about a keymap, if no, then it will deactivate ibus until it's needed again
<knome> mmh..
<brainwash> knome: via bug report I guess
<brainwash> upstream
<brainwash> BUT
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=924314
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 924314 in ibus "iBus failed to switch between pinyin and UK English in Emacs." [Unspecified,Closed: rawhide]
<brainwash> "Closing this bug If you're fine with gb(extd)."
<knome> hmm
<brainwash> so this needs to be fixed upstream in ibus
<knome> right...
<knome> for every broken languge, that is, right?
<brainwash> either we add all the missing keymaps or request to implement a sane fallback solution
<brainwash> indeed, mostly for all the missing layout variants
<knome> can the keymaps be, in a way or another, "just" symlinks ?
<knome> or equivalent
<brainwash> ibus does not provide the keymap files... it only checks its own list (simple xml) file
<knome> aha
<brainwash> adding a keymap to ibus is therefore really easy
<knome> right
<knome> so..
<brainwash> see /usr/share/ibus/component/simple.xml
<knome> tell me more about gnome-settings-daemon
<knome> when does it ask for a layout?
<brainwash> g-s-d has some sort of ibus integration
<knome> i don't think i have ibus installed ;d
<knome> hmm
<knome> or just have that file
<brainwash> the file is provided by ibus
<brainwash> we could add "gb" downstream
<brainwash> and "de (nodeadkeys)"
<brainwash> and ..
<brainwash> :)
<knome> mm yeah
<knome> or write a simple daemon that does ibus integration?
<knome> or, simple and simple...
<brainwash> we could add it to xfsettingsd
<brainwash> but that's meh somehow
<knome> i have ibus installed, but not that file...
<knome> hmm, wait, i don't
<brainwash> ibus: /usr/share/ibus/component/simple.xml
<knome> i had some ibus stuff on the menu
<knome> which is why i thought i had ibus...
<brainwash> so the whole thing is rather complicated to fix, if the ibus maintainer strictly avoids to bloat the keymap list
<knome> well, i can understand that
<brainwash> so we should drop the report completely, if the user wants ibus, then he should be able to configure it (select the layouts he needs)
<brainwash> if a keymap is not listed, then he should bother the ibus dev
<knome> well,
<brainwash> it's targeting gnome and is maintained by a redhat dev, why should Xfce bother about it
<brainwash> bluesabre: ping
<brainwash> bluesabre: added a comment to bug 1278089
<ubottu> bug 1278089 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole reports "Gstreamer backend error, could not initialise supporting library" in trusty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278089
<elfy> brainwash: thanks for all that info - but if we're not going to use it then my interest will wane quickly :)
<brainwash> elfy: right, we don't know if ibus will make its comeback
<elfy> well ... my only interest in it starts and ends at the fact that suddenly it didn't work for us - previous to that I had no idea it was even there :)
<elfy> if people want or need it then they'll be setting it up anyway with sane values for them
<brainwash> exactly
<elfy> as we're losing it - the QA leads interest has come to an abrupt halt :)
<juanmontoya> hi, how do I report a bug? (Alt-1 to switch tab is not working on xubuntu beta)
<brainwash> generally not working?
<brainwash> there are different apps with tab support
<juanmontoya> yes, doesn't work on firefox, gvim, xfce4-terminal
<elfy> works ok here in hexchat/firefox
<juanmontoya> mhm... maybe it's already fixed... 
<elfy> and xfce4-term
<elfy> I'm updated to about 7 hours ago
<brainwash> create a new user account and try to confirm it
<juanmontoya> I'll try that when I get home :)
<brainwash> and if you want to report a bug, simply run "ubuntu-bug <package>"
<brainwash> package would be.. hmm, not easy to tell which package could be the culprit
<juanmontoya> oh... I have done that before but forgot about it this time, I was lost at xubuntu.org/contribute and the faq ^^
<brainwash> did you maybe change or add a keyboard shortcut which involves <alt> and 1?
<juanmontoya> not as far as I know, but I'll check, maybe I did it by accident
<juanmontoya> I thought this was happening to everyone
<brainwash> ok, so please test it with a new user account and report a bug if needed
<brainwash> thanks :)
<juanmontoya> I'll do that, thanks to you too
<slickymaster> meeting time, no?
<elfy> not yet slickymaster :)
<elfy> an hour yet
<slickymaster> wasn't it at 19:00 UTC?
<elfy> Thu Apr 10 18:02:28 UTC 2014
<elfy> it is at 19:00 UTC :)
<slickymaster> damn, forgot we changed the hour to daylight settings over here
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> so today's daily - has proper wallpapers \o/ 
<elfy> and a list of keyboard layouts for ibus ... 
<knome> i will be at the meeting, but might be a tad late
<knome> see you later
<knome> ->
<brainwash> elfy: wallpapers! :)
<brainwash> I did not save the link to your lid close test run spreadsheet
<elfy> sound is still not enabled - messages same
<elfy> brainwash: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmA-9EbkJPYddDVzSk5RdHotTVpRMlc5aGFicDJ2X0E#gid=0
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> the package got uploaded 7 hours ago
<brainwash> so it will be fixed tomorrow or whenever a new iso is built
<elfy> ok - sound and messages?
<brainwash> yes
<knome> elfy, even live session has the correct wallpaper?
<elfy> knome: yep 
<knome> jolly :)
<elfy> seems both bugs are fixed
<knome> mhm
<knome> bah, i almost got stuck in an elevator and was about to be much later in the meeting
<elfy> actually I will dblcheck after install state
<knome> yep
<knome> anyway, nice progress!
<elfy> yea :)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 10 18:59:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
<slickymaster> o/ sort of in and out. I have a fish baking in the oven
<jjfrv8-work> me too, in and out that is
<Unit193> I should be here, but doing other things so may be reading backlog every so often.
<knome> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #done Wallpaper issues fixed - thanks to xnox 
<knome> #info IBus should be now dropped by default and not cause problems
<knome> #done knome fixed the website archives
<knome> hmm, we're clearly quiet and small in numbers today
<Unit193> Still on the image from today.
<elfy> ibus is still installed from today's image
<Unit193> parole, xfce4-indicator-plugin, and other recent fixes count?
<knome> Unit193, sure.
<RFleming> Greetings!
<RFleming> Indicator icons have changed I see.
<knome> RFleming, we're in the middle of a meeting, you might want to wait for a bit.
<RFleming> knome, apologies
<knome> no problem
<Unit193> #done xfce4-indicator-plugin patched and uploaded to start the indicators.
<Unit193> (not by me.)
<knome> #done knome started writing the release annoucement/notes: http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Final
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info Final release in one week (!)
<elfy> #info 32 bit upgrade tests since April 1st - 3 normal 3 LTS
<elfy> #info 64 bit - the same
<knome> elfy, i can do one on real hardware, real data some day
<elfy> a good % of those we have were hardware
<elfy> but we've still not had many
<knome> are you happy with that, or should we try to get more?
<Unit193> I can do one more hardware one, but I'm delaying because :uptime:
<elfy> get more 
<elfy> at least if we can 
<slickymaster> I can only do them on virtual enviroments :(
<knome> elfy, i know this is an absurd question and the only right answer is "as much as possible", but how much more would you like to see?
<knome> we could try to catch some people from social media etc. who are running 12.04
<elfy> at least what we've had up to now would be nice
<knome> and guide them hand-in-hand through the stuff
<elfy> s/at least double
<knome> yeah..
<knome> i'm more worried about the LTS->LTS path
<knome> Unit193, 32 or 64?
<Unit193> Saucy 32.
<mzr> are you looking for all physical at this point or still both?
<knome> right, saucy...
<elfy> same - could do a specific call for it - but I think it would be better to try and grab people from social if possible
<knome> mzr, physical, real installations would be the best
<knome> mzr, because that's a "real" test
<mzr> yeah, figures
<knome> #action knome to work with elfy to get some people from social media to run upgrade tests (the team can guide them through)
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work with elfy to get some people from social media to run upgrade tests (the team can guide them through)
<elfy> might be worth getting some sort of straw poll on when people are actually about 
<knome> evening/night-time utc is usually active at least
<elfy> yep 
<knome> i'll look into it
<elfy> I'm not going to be about during the day UTC till release day
<knome> mhm, that's ok
<knome> #topic Other issues
<knome> anything else?
<elfy> not from me
<slickymaster> nothing from me
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> do we want one more before release?
<knome> tue? wed?
<elfy> tue would be better perhaps 
<knome> yep, some time to react
<elfy> could make sure we've got all the known issues for the release notes too
<knome> yep
<knome> though we should do that during the week as well
<elfy> indeed - I will try to get that closer beforehand
<knome> yep
<knome> i think we're pretty good though
<knome> #info Next meeting: Tue 15 April 2014, 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 10 19:17:59 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-10-18.59.moin.txt
<knome> thanks
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<knome> lderan, #done still not working ;)
<slickymaster> ->
<elfy> thanks knome 
<mzr> if you need people to help with getting old LTS'ers to upgrade I'd be glad to assist
<Unit193> Short enough.  Also, got the annoying black screen thing from light-locker, had to restart lightdm. :/
<elfy> knome: why is it not possible to add bugs to the .1 blueprint - was going to move the ibus one
<knome> mzr, that would be useful, ask elfy for detals
<knome> elfy, hmm..
<elfy> mzr: what arch - and I'll grab the testcase I'd like done :)
<mzr> not thinking we're on the same page...
<elfy> ohhh
<elfy> you mean - getting others to do it ?
<mzr> that is what I meant, hard for me to do anything that's not vm
<knome> elfy, dunno, i can do it
<elfy> well - the social admins will do that
<elfy> knome: I'll login and have another go ... 
<knome> moved ;)
<elfy> ta - I could do it now :p
<knome> heh, good
<elfy> I forgot I was trying to login to things earlier when login.ubuntu went down 
<knome> brainwash, any specific reason bug 1301873 was linked to the .1 blueprint?
<ubottu> bug 1301873 in Xfwm4 "Add support for title-less windows" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301873
<mzr> sorry elfy, wish i could help you out with that 
<brainwash> it should be tested until .1
<elfy> mzr: that's ok
<knome> brainwash, yes... but it's a new feature, not a bug fix
<brainwash> it is a bug fix
<brainwash> for incomplete support
<knome> for what issue?
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> read the upstream report
<brainwash> but feel free to remove it :(
<knome> well, i'm just thinking it's not probably high priority for an SRU
<brainwash> wishlist then
<knome> the bug status is fine as it is..
<knome> but how does that bug impact regular trusty installations?
<brainwash> it does not affect them
<brainwash> unless you install apps which are title-less
<brainwash> do we already need to talk about 14.04.1? :)
<knome> yes...
<knome> sorry, but i'm dropping the bug
<knome> feel free to get it tested
<brainwash> ok
<knome> and i have nothing against including it in .1
<knome> just want that blueprint to have the most prominent stuff
<knome> that we really really want to fix
<knome> there are bugs for every release to fix ;)
<brainwash> sure
 * Logan_ waves
<brainwash> hi Logan_ 
<Unit193> Logan_: Hellos.
<brainwash> Logan_: any success with the abiword packaging?
<elfy> evening Logan_ :)
<elfy> at least it is here ... 
<Logan_> elfy: afternoon ð
<Logan_> brainwash: haven't taken a look yet
<GuilhermeBCM> Hello, I've upgraded my system from Xubuntu 13.10 to 14.04. I've noticed two issues. First one is lack of Ubuntu One client. The second is that, after resume the laptop, I can unlock it with my password, but I receive a blank screen. I have to <CTRL>+<ALT>+<F1> and issue a reboot directly on the console.
<GuilhermeBCM> What is the correct channel to report these problems?
<ochosi> GuilhermeBCM: ubuntu one has been discontinued, so that's not a surprise
<ochosi> GuilhermeBCM: that second issue is known and being worked on, so no need to report it anymore
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks for looking into that parole issue. i was pretty sure it was a missing codec/gst-plugin problem to begin with. guess that'll be a small packaging update...
<ochosi> brainwash: also thanks for the ll debugging
<GuilhermeBCM> I did not know about Ubuntu One being discontinued. I use it a lot... :(
<ochosi> GuilhermeBCM: then better backup your stuff... https://one.ubuntu.com/services/shutdown/
<GuilhermeBCM> Maybe it's time to setup encryption in my tiki blog and use it instead... :D
<GuilhermeBCM> I have some files shared with my wife, and also in my desktop and laptop. I use the service most like a central point for file sync. Maybe I return to unison. :-/
<GuilhermeBCM> But thanks anyway.
<Noskcaj> Would you guys support https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfburn/bugfixes/+merge/215094 being uploaded?
<knome> Noskcaj, under final freeze, no
<knome> blu-ray support sounds like a feature
<Noskcaj> makes sense
<Noskcaj> I'll make an SRU when we release
<brainwash> Noskcaj: looks we got a broken help button in xfce4-power-manager :)
<ochosi> brainwash: known bug
<brainwash> since 4.10
<ochosi> and i think eric even worked on a fix already
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> I know :D
<ochosi> not sure whether he has pushed it to his branch already
<ochosi> anyway, as i mentioned previously, after 14.04 there'll be some time to get xfpm in better shape than it currently is (it can only get better..)
<ochosi> brainwash: what's the last status on the lid-suspend problem?
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=5add232a73e348b0aa56aedfb4cb75051e817c84
<brainwash> ochosi: hard to tell, it's like going in circles
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> so it's unclear again what the culprit is?
<brainwash> I'm not sure
<brainwash> we need to test gnome-screen-saver
<brainwash> gnome-screensaver
<ochosi> didn't someone on say (on the bugreport or ml) that g-s worked for them?
<brainwash> maybe
<brainwash> I'll try to find the comment
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/what.png <--- there's the xfwm bug, root pixmap seems to be written to and not updated correctly.  VLC was goofing up, and when I changed desktops the area finally updated, before it was sections of VLC.
<brainwash> looks like some demon is trying to enter your desktop
<Unit193> Yes, yes there is. 0_o
<Unit193> (Nah, second desktop. :P )
<Noskcaj> Should we try and get a final freeze upload of parole for bug 1278089 ?
<ubottu> bug 1278089 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole reports "Gstreamer backend error, could not initialise supporting library" in trusty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278089
<Noskcaj> "high" priority, minor fix
<knome> guess we should fix the packaging and make that package a recommends of parole
<brainwash> strange, the package is included on the iso
<Noskcaj> depends or recommends? Since parole is breaking when it's not installed
<knome> only some files
<brainwash> recommends
<brainwash> currently it's suggests
<brainwash> but why is the package present on the iso?
<ochosi> yeah, i agree, recommends should be fine
<brainwash> does the iso include all the "suggests:" packages?
<Unit193> No.
<Noskcaj> lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/parole/missing-depend
<Noskcaj> I have to go to school now, if you guys think the branch is all good, please propose it for merging
<brainwash> I would have also moved -good to recommends
<brainwash> xubuntu-restricted-addons installs -bad -ugly -libav
<brainwash> -good contains "PulseAudio plugin library"
<knome> brainwash, changes under final freeze should be well argumented; how do you argument also moving -good?
<brainwash> totem does the same :)
<brainwash> yeah, I don't expect it to happen
<knome> we can do that for .1 :P
<brainwash> we got no information about the benefit of adding -good too
<knome> :)
<brainwash> just noticed that xubuntu-restricted-addons won't install it (restricted stuff)
<brainwash> so I was wondering what would install it
<brainwash> on a default xubuntu installation
<brainwash> oh.. I was about to ask if anyone can confirm bug 1304128
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<brainwash> ToZ: ^
<brainwash> :)
<ToZ> yep, that one was mine
<ToZ> happened during the 12.04 to 14.04 upgrade. Don't think xscreensaver was removed
<brainwash> does it get selected if you autoremove packages?
<brainwash> I assume that xscreensaver is set to "manual" installed in apt
<ToZ> I don't have that system up anymore, but I always autoremove and the end of installs/upgrades and it was still there.
<brainwash> would be great if someone else could confirm it
<brainwash> clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04
<brainwash> and maybe 13.10 -> 14.04
<slickymaster> I'll be doing some testing for Unit193 tomorrow, brainwash. After that I can take a stabe at those
<brainwash> thanks you :)
<brainwash> thank
<ToZ> I'll see if I can find some free time this weekend to do another 12.04 to 14.04 to verify this as well.
<brainwash> so, if it remains on the system, we could add a note to the release page
<slickymaster> if it still happens, I'll add that note
<brainwash> great
<brainwash> anyone affected by bug 1210898? I've uploaded a package for testing (see comment #11)
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<ToZ> brainwash, working fine here - just auto-mounted external usb drive
<brainwash> ok, I'll test it later, but I do remember that my test system mounted some external usb drive fine too
<brainwash> automatically
<ToZ> brainwash, DVD movie automounted fine and starting playing
<brainwash> so it does not affect all users (if any at all using 14.04) and it's only a minor annoyance anyway
<brainwash> ToZ: thanks for testing it :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-11
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: looks good to me
<bluesabre> you have upload rights to parole, right?
<jhenke> good morning folks
<knome> slickymasterWork, so yeah...
<knome> maybe we should make it a generic note
<knome> saying disabling the compositor can help with performance a lot, including virtualized environments
<knome> Unit193, are we even shipping it? :P
<Unit193> Nope, that's why I wasn't talking in here. :P
<knome> it's fine here
<Unit193> Used to be(?) an Xfce project, seems Xfce contributors still work on it at least.
<knome> mmh, well then i'm not as enthusiastic about it (didn't come to think that the last time), but would still be nice
<slickymasterWork> just a second please
<knome> we should use some time to really dig into the seed for 14.10
<knome> brb, booting desktop
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I completely forgot i had that power. I'll check with the release team, then upload
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, fantastic.  :-)
<slickymasterWork> sorry guys, but the DHCP started to act crazy and revoking the IP leases to the machines over here
<Noskcaj> new parole uploaded
<brainwash> c'mon, lets fix the remaining -bugs :)
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: in the process of clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04
<brainwash> that's great
<slickymasterWork> besides bug 1304128 do you want me to check anything else?
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<brainwash> the usual checks I guess
<brainwash> if everything is working fine
<brainwash> with the old panel layout especially
<slickymasterWork> ok, after this I'll go 13.10 -> 14.04
<brainwash> thanks
<slickymasterWork> np
<starrats> just curious is the 'sound/volume app' for your speakers/headsets that sits on the top next to the clock and other icons getting fixed?
<brainwash> what's broken about it?
<brainwash> it should not be missing since yesterday, if you mean this
<starrats> should I be able to find it on the Panel to add it on?
<brainwash> you one need to add the indicator plugin to your panel
<brainwash> in case it's missing
<brainwash> and make sure that your system is up-to-date
<starrats> my system is always up to date every day I do update/upgrade and thank you for that info, will add it on now it was missing.
<starrats> well the 'indicator plugin' was there but I mean the little icon for volume control is not there, you know going from 'mute' to full blast' icon is still missing
<bluesabre> after you updated, did you logout/restart?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks!
<starrats> yes I did bluesabre
<starrats> I had to go to pulseaudio on multimedia to get a louder volume on my headset
<starrats> but the icon would be nice to have again
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<starrats> thought there was a bug report filed on this missing icon from the panel?  That's why i hadn't filed one, someone else beat me to it.
<brainwash> yes, and it should be fixed
<brainwash> bug 1302571
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<brainwash> so, please create a new user account to confirm that it does not on your system
<brainwash> and make sure that "indicator-sound" is still installed
<elfy> booting todays daily - will check
<elfy> sound indicator present
<elfy> so is ibus :|
<starrats> okay will look and update today's updates/upgrades
<elfy> starrats: it doesn't matter if you update - if you've done something that stops the indicators showing :)
<elfy> knome: ibus is still present in todays daily
<starrats> I have done nothing to lose that indicator sound icon, it's not in the panel/items to add screen
<elfy> it won't be - it's part of indicator-plugin
<elfy> check it's not deactivated in settings - session - autostart
<knome> mr :P
<elfy> who's mr :P? is he like Mr T ?
<knome> ...
<elfy> so there is a mr for it - just not actioned?
<knome> lol
<knome> no
<knome> sorry for being ambiguous
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: did you take action to get the ibus dropping in the seed uploaded?
<knome> elfy, FTR, both sean and simon have access to our branches now
<knome> so we barely need merge requests for those
<knome> now the only thing we need to care about is uploading
<elfy> ok cool - I thought I saw micah say that
<knome> yep, not sure if it has come up already
<elfy> saw it in -ot
<elfy> just so long as it's done before Thursday or I'll be -1 to releasing with it ;)
<knome> ;)
<knome> british...
 * knome shakes head
<elfy> lol
<knome> but yyyyeah, we should take care of it
<starrats> thanks elfy, brainwash and others, I had to check the indicator sound like elfy said and restarted the comp, all is good now, i learn something new everyday from one of you, :)
<elfy> knome: saw that - thanks :)
<knome> np..
<knome> micahg, around?
<knome> oh shoo. :)
<elfy> saw that - lovely :|
<elfy> back later 
<elfy> never saw the manifest or germinate-output before 
<knome> i think it's one of those things that i can look at, but won't understand enough to come up with anything sane
<knome> tip: only run in a directory that do not have files you don't want to get lost
<ochosi> knome: ibus should be dropped already
<ochosi> at least it is gone from the seed
<knome> ochosi, it gets pulled in by unity-control-center
<knome> ochosi, which is pulled in by gnome-bluetooth
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> i thought we shipped blueman?
<knome> the alternative to unity-control-center is gnome-control-center
<ochosi> that's both terrible
<knome> yeah..
<ochosi> why can't they make the alternative xfce4-settings-manager? :)
<knome> hey, we probably could
<jhenke> just did a fresh install of the RC, it seems there are now two clocks in the panel
<jhenke> I also noticed a whole bunch of unity control settings and deamons pulled in
<knome> ochosi, but would it have bluetooth configuration stuff without those other -control-center packages?
<ochosi> i'm using gnome-bluetooth currently (or is it bluetooth indicator?) and this is what i get when i go to "bluetooth settings..." in the menu: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-04-11-143817.php
<knome> so no luck?
<ochosi> well that's empty, there's no bt settings there
<ochosi> but frankly, it doesn't seem very needed
<knome> ah, and that's the gnome-control-center?
<ochosi> you can switch bt on/off in the indicator
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> mmright...
<ochosi> you can add/remove/configure devices
<ochosi> you can make your adaptor discoverable
<ochosi> that's all i need
<knome> ochosi, please follow -release and HALP!
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> so this is that thing i'm using: http://imagebin.org/305049
<ochosi> seems comprehensive enough on its own
<knome> hmm,
<ochosi> let me check what it actually is...
<knome> yeah...
<jhenke> ny the way, why is the whole bluetooth stack installed anyway by default? even if the device does not have any bluetooth
<knome> jhenke, because it isn't "possible" to check if a user has bluetooth devices or not
<knome> or even if it was, they should all be connected and recognised during installation
<ochosi> knome: so i'm using indicator-bluetooth + gnome-bluetooth. and that pulls in all the evil stuff.
<knome> yep
<ochosi> knome: problem is: we might need to patch indicator-bluetooth a la indicator-sound/power
<knome> aha
<knome> what would that fix?
<ochosi> in our case: to hide the "bluetooth settings..." menuitem
<knome> okay
<jhenke> not pulling in all the gnome/unity stuff?
<ochosi> jhenke: well that menuitem is the sole reason those -control-centers are pulled in
<knome> i'm *definitely* not experienced enough here, but it sounds like stupid pulling those in...
<ochosi> knome: i'll be back in a bit, do you know why we switched away from blueman?
<jhenke> ochosi I know, I tryied to point out that a patch is needed to *not* pull all that into the installtion
<knome> i never was completely on top of it, but i think we never switched away from anything
<knome> at least for trusty: it was discussed, and the outcome was: let's keep what we have
<jhenke> by the way there was also some other new item in the panel, something related to the input
<jhenke> that loook much like it also lived in the unity-control-center
<brainwash> yeah, stop the unity infection!
<jhenke> I came to xubuntu to get rid of unity...
<knome> stop the FUD, fix the bugs :)
<jhenke> if I only knew where to start....
<ochosi> knome: so actually we seed blueman
<knome> aha..
<knome> so why is gnome-bluetooth seeded?
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: brainwash, clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04
<slickymasterWork> Present -> bug 1274548, bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203
<ochosi> knome: no clue, i'm not that familiar with the seed stuff
<ubottu> bug 1274548 in gstreamer1.0 (Ubuntu) "gst-plugin-scanner crashed with SIGSEGV in __GI___pthread_mutex_lock()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274548
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<ubottu> bug 1284914 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop network shares not visible on desktop" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284914
<ubottu> bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203
<ochosi> that xfdesktop bug should be marked as wontfix imo
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: gThumb is still present and the old app-menu is default instead of Whisker
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: also, is the xscreensaver thingy really a problem?
<knome> ochosi, i can mark it, but with what rationale?
<ochosi> yeah that's also expected, user conf doesn't get overridden and apps don't get removed generally
<slickymasterWork> not me ochosi, I was checking it as per brainwash's request
<slickymasterWork> not present bug 1210898, bug 1302571
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<ochosi> knome: the thing is that with the current implementation it won't be possible to show network drives in the same way as thunar
<knome> okay
<ochosi> knome: the technical reason is gio
<ochosi> but i don't think we need to explain that
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks
<knome> yeah, so the right thing is
<knome> will need to be fixed upstream
<brainwash> but it's not won't fix
<knome> so the bug is wishlist?
<brainwash> no
<knome> at least for xubuntu..
<slickymasterWork> will start now clean install 13.10 -> 14.04
<knome> brainwash, i know it isn't right now, i'm talking about what it should be
<brainwash> you can enabled to show network shares in the settings dialog of xfdesktop, so it's an incomplete feature
<slickymasterWork> anyone needs any sort of verification regarding a this scenario clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04?
<brainwash> just leave it open :)
<knome> ochosi, ^ do you agree?
<slickymasterWork> not duable brainwash, I'm getting short of disk space for VM
<knome> i'm dropping it from the blueprint
<ochosi> knome: so anyway, wrt the bluetooth issue, i have no clue what's going on there, but the previous plan to patch indicator-bt is obviously bollocks, cause it's not installed/in use :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, he was replying to me
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: I meant to leave the bug report open
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> ochosi, hehe
<brainwash> :)
<slickymasterWork> ok whipping it and starting with 13.10 -> 14.04 
<ochosi> so hopefully one of you can look into why we're pulling unity seemingly and gnome-bluetooth
<ochosi> i guess it's some nasty depends/recommends chain
<knome> is bug 1304128 a problem?
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<knome> shouldn't it be wontfix?
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: ^
<ochosi> that was what i was asking before
<slickymasterWork> on the light of your reasoning, yes
<ochosi> i think it shouldn't be a problem apart from possibly conflicting auto-lock times...
<knome> or: is there any downsides of having both installed?
<knome> let's put it another way
<slickymasterWork> thing is, will users unsderstand it?
<knome> the bug described isn't really a bug, it's a feature (both are kept)
<knome> am i right?
<ochosi> knome: well as i said...
<knome> there *might* be another bug involved with that, but that's not related to this one
<brainwash> disk space concerns?
<brainwash> :D
<knome> hah
<slickymasterWork> shouldn't that at least be mentioned in the Release notes, knome?
<slickymasterWork> I mean bug 130428
<ubottu> bug 130428 in pcre3 (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-monitor: symbol lookup error: gnome-system-monitor: undefined symbol: _ZN7pcrecpp2RE4InitEPKcPKNS_10RE_OptionsE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130428
<slickymasterWork> ups, not that one
<slickymasterWork> bug 1304128
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<knome> well i guess ww could mention that "if you are having problems with autolocking times, remove xscreensaver
<ochosi> yeah, we could mention it
<ochosi> also in that article about locking
<knome> mhm
<slickymasterWork> just as a heads up for users, or we might get into a situation facing several users nagging about it
<ochosi> anyway, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-meta/trusty/view/head:/desktop-recommends-amd64#L10
<ochosi> that's wrt bluetooth ^
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> slickymasterWork, i guess you didn't hit bug 1303736 (dup of bug 1259339)
<ubottu> bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "duplicate for #1303736 xfce4 power manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339
<ubottu> bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "xfce4 power manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339
<slickymasterWork> no knome, but I wouldn't be able to anyway. At work, just desktop, no lappies
<knome> yep
<brainwash> Noskcaj: is this ok? should the patch be applied or just added to debian/patches? https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling
<brainwash> ochosi: so, do we know why the additional unity stuff is pulled in?
<brainwash> I mean, do we need further investigation? :)
<knome> probably good to double-check but it seems it's gnome-bluetooth pulling that in
<brainwash> looks like network-manager-gnome recommends gnome-bluetooth
<knome> that is... kind of understandable, but debatable
<knome> maybe it could suggest it
<brainwash> maybe recommend it or blueman
<brainwash> if network-manager-gnome really is the start of the dependency chain
<cyphermox> moo?
<brainwash> do you agree?
<cyphermox> I explicitly don't know without looking
<brainwash> network-manager-gnome -> gnome-bluetooth -> unity awesomeness
<jhenke> brainwash I guess you hit the nail
<jhenke> other problematics are indicaor-keyboard and indicator-datetime
<cyphermox> don't you pull in gnome-control-center?
<brainwash> why would we?
<jhenke> cyphermox we should rather not
<knome> no, we have xfce4-settings-manager
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well then maybe it should be an extra alternate recommends in gnome-bluetooth?
<knome> i've suggested that, and it's one option
<brainwash> but do we need gnome-bluetooth?
<brainwash> we have blueman
<cyphermox> given blueman maybe you don't
<jhenke> is there already a bug open about this?
<brainwash> so we need to tell network-manager-gnome to recommend gnome-bluetooth or blueman
<cyphermox> I don't think n-m-gnome pulling in gnome-bluetooth pulling in gnome-control-center is new, though, so I'm a little surprised it's only an issue now :)
<cyphermox> brainwash: not sure, it recommends gnome-bluetooth because nm-applet ships a gnome-bluetooth plugin
<cyphermox> so it probably could be dropped to a Suggest
<jhenke> I am also surprised when I did a frash isntallation of the RC today and gound all those extra indicators that should not be in xfce
<brainwash> this might be only the result of the dependency chain
<brainwash> you did not notice the extra indicators before, because we've changed xfce4-indicator-plugin just yesterday
<knome> bbiab
<brainwash> so now it loads all installed indicators
<jhenke> brainwash okay that explains a lot
<brainwash> like -datetime which was/is hidden in our settings manager
<brainwash> or -session
<jhenke> I do think it is important that we get rid off all those extra indicators, especially as xubuntu is also used on weak platforms (e.g. netbooks) where every mb ram counts
<brainwash> we only intended to ship 4: -application -messages -power -sound
<jhenke> great, so we all want the same, question is, how to get those extra ones out of the default install?
<brainwash> by not letting gnome-bluetooth pull in unity-settings-daemon and all the additional stuff
<cyphermox> brainwash: where are the seeds for xubuntu?
<jhenke> do you think the extra idicators also came by that?
<brainwash> I guess so
<brainwash> cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty
<cyphermox> jhenke: yes, unity-control-center pulls in the indicators
<brainwash> oh, meant unity-control-center :)
<cyphermox> ok, so I guess I could drop gnome-bluetooth from Recommends to Suggests
<cyphermox> or if someone from the xubuntu team wants to do the diff, get the credit, and bug the release team themselves to land this in, I will not object at all :)
<jhenke> I guess the important thing is to get it laned :)
<jhenke> by the way, I saw ibus got dropped from the seed, but was installed anyway today
<brainwash> most likely the same reason
<brainwash> cyphermox: why not add blueman as alternate recommends?
<jhenke> brainwash okay, just going the things that I noticed
<brainwash> so we don't break the initial recommend
<cyphermox> brainwash: I don't think it makes sense, n-m-gnome isn't doing anything with blueman
<cyphermox> brainwash: ubuntu-desktop pulls in gnome-bluetooth explicitly so that at least wouldn't be broken if the Recommends is demoted
<brainwash> ah ok
<jhenke> also one odd thing I noticed, some basic packages got installed, but seem missing in the archive, at least them appear as "local or old" packages in synpatic
<brainwash> like?
<jhenke> language-pack-* and libc6 packages
<brainwash> no clue
<cyphermox> hmm
<jhenke> as I said just going through the things I noticed after the install today
<cyphermox> brainwash: I'm looking at the lubuntu seed and I see they explicitly don't have gnome-bluetooth pulled in, trying to check why
<brainwash> jhenke: maybe file a bug report, or ask in #ubuntu-devel
<cyphermox> ah, no-follow-recommends :(
<jhenke> in the archive there seems to a ubuntu4 but installed got a ubuntu5...
<brainwash> cyphermox: for every package?
<cyphermox> yeah
<brainwash> wow
<cyphermox> it's a global feature
<cyphermox> not something unless you want to spend the whole of this week and the next figuring out why your desktop is no longer showing :P
<brainwash> :D
<cyphermox> hm, demoting the Recommends would affect mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio though
<cyphermox> brainwash: is there already a bug for this issue?
<cyphermox> ideally there should be one, and then we should check with mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio whether they want gnome-bluetooth or if it's just in by accident, and ask them to add it to their seed if it's really wanted
<knome> yep
<brainwash> no bug yet I guess
<knome> shouldn't be too hard to catch studio...
<knome> zequence!
<cyphermox> ah, I was just about to ping in the channel :)
<xubuntu370> im installing xubuntu 14.04 and stock at config bcmwl-kernel-source, do you have any idea how can i continue, in advance thanks
<xubuntu370> i mean i canot continue installing the distro
<jhenke> xubuntu370 if I see it correctly that is related to kernel modules and support for some broadcom wlan
<jhenke> do you have any output, indicating why it does not continue?
<xubuntu370> yes probably
<xubuntu370> nothing only stop de instalation 
<jhenke> to me it seems like a general installer/kernel issue and not xubuntu specific
<jhenke> I guess we cannot help you much here, I guess the installer/kernel guys might have more insight into ti
<xubuntu370> so...i can stop installing the distro and this it?
<jhenke> you can file a bug and try to get somebody from the kernel or installer team look into the issue
<xubuntu370> where are i can find tham?
<xubuntu370> them?
<jhenke> I guess #ubuntu-devel / #ubuntu-kernel is a good start, sorry that we cannot help you
<jhenke> in any case a bug report is always a good start
<xubuntu370> at contrary thanks you
<jhenke> and then bring that bug to the attention of the responsible developers
<jhenke> you are welcome, but be aware there a lots of bug reports every day, you have to be persistent to get the attention for your specific bug ;)
<brainwash> especially now right before final release :)
<xubuntu370> whats up if only turn off the pc??????
<zequence> knome: We're happy to have what you have. You already have something else for blueooth
<zequence> ?
<knome> yes, blueman
<jhenke> xubuntu370 you can try if that bug is also present in an older version and try that for the time being until the bug is resolved
<knome> zequence, you currently don't ship that though
<zequence> knome: Oh.. I did go trough your seeds before, to try make ours align with yours, but that was some time ago
<zequence> let me check..
<knome> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.trusty/desktop
<knome> no blueman
<knome> be back in 45mins or so
<zequence> nope
<xubuntu370> thnaks , i will turn off the pc and i going to disconnect
<zequence> cyphermox: No bug report about the bluetooth issue?
<zequence> (Not the best day to be working with source code, hrm)
<jhenke> brainwash did you write a bug report already?
<jhenke> bbl
<cyphermox> zequence: what?
<cyphermox> I was saying someone should open a bug about this issue of extra packages pulled in to xubuntu
<cyphermox> and then we can fix that by fixing both the ubuntustudio seed to pull in blueman if needed (or gnome-bluetooth), and network-manager-gnome to stop recommending gnome-bluetooth and make it suggest instead
<zequence> cyphermox: We'll go with your selection. If there is a bug report, I'd just like to add it to the commits, and so forth
<cyphermox> oh for sure
<cyphermox> what's why I was asking for brainwash or someone who experiences the problem to file the bug
<zequence> The idea is we fully base our DE on an existing one - in the future, we will be supporting several
<zequence> Ah, ok
<cyphermox> then if I or someone else makes the n-m-gnome changes, it will be in changelog, and it will be in the commit for the seeds so we can track why things changed the way they did
<cyphermox> I'm trying to convince someone to do the n-m-gnome change so I can sponsor it and not spend too much time on this today
<knome> elfy, re: studio/myth-
<knome> we want to make gnome-bluetooth only a suggest for network manager
<knome> but if/when we do that, studio/myth need to pull that in manually if they still want it
<knome> or alternatively, leave in unseeded or add blueman to their seed
<knome> (that's what we use for bluetooth stuff)
<knome> so at most it's three changes: one for the nm package and two for the myth/studio seeds
<elfy> ok - thanks
<knome> if we go that route, xubuntu packages itself shouldn't need any changes
<knome> and that would fix both the "we have multiple bluetooth stacks" and the ibus issue
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> elfy: please try to reproduce bug 1210898 with thunar-volman from my PPA
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<elfy> I'm already marked as affected by it
<elfy> all I've got to do is plug in my sansa clip and I'll be affected by it probably - it's been recognised once in 10 times this week
<brainwash> great
<elfy> not really
<elfy> it's enough to make me use windows 
<brainwash> why not? this way you can test my patched thunar-volman :)
<elfy> and it's not thunar to be honest - doesn't matter what file manager I have - if it's not recognised - then it's not recognised in any of them
<brainwash> even if the filemanager is open?
<brainwash> well, thunar relies on thunar-volman to automount devices
<brainwash> so far no one could confirm this problem in 14.04
<brainwash> recently I mean
<elfy> brainwash: no file manager open - plug it in - if it is recognised then that's ok - but if it isn't then you could use any file manager you want to pull your hair out
<elfy> brainwash that bug was reference in a beta1 test result
<elfy> so not sure why you say that
<brainwash> alright
<brainwash> just need some feedback for the patch
<brainwash> otherwise we need to SRU it later
<brainwash> in case the patch helps
<elfy> brainwash: sorry - got sidetracked
<elfy> I can test it of course :)
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> is it in your ppa?
<brainwash> yes
<elfy> now?
<brainwash> now what? I've uploaded it 2 days ago
<brainwash> see comment #11 :)
<elfy> oh ok - wasn't aware
<elfy> I don't bother looking at that bug - been putting up with the issue for ages ... 
<elfy> new kernel apparently ...
<brainwash> maybe we can finally fix it in trusty :)
<slickymasterWork> brainwash, clean install 13.10 -> 14.04
<slickymasterWork> Present: bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203
<ubottu> bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128
<ubottu> bug 1284914 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop network shares not visible on desktop" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284914
<ubottu> bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203
<slickymasterWork> gThumb is still present and the old app-menu is default instead of Whisker
<slickymasterWork> Not present: bug 1210898, bug 1302571, bug 1274548
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<ubottu> bug 1274548 in gstreamer1.0 (Ubuntu) "gst-plugin-scanner crashed with SIGSEGV in __GI___pthread_mutex_lock()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274548
<elfy> brainwash: ok well that's new - plugged it in and thunar actually opened ... 
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: awesome, thanks a lot for the detailed feedback :)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: with an upgrade things like whisker won't be there 
<slickymasterWork> I'm aware elfy. Just reporting as a good -qa member :)
<brainwash> elfy: it opened.... and? did it also mount the device?
<elfy> brainwash: opened twice - as expected - 2 partitions
<elfy> yep both mounted 
<brainwash> that's great
<brainwash> but maybe you were just lucky this time?
<elfy> I shall be in and out over the next day or so looking at this 
<elfy> yea - exactly ^^
<brainwash> ok :)
<slickymasterWork> and like your friendly neighbor spiderman, passed the all day with the -qa disguise, both for Unit193 and brainwash sake
<elfy> brainwash: though even if it got recognised - they never actually mounted and opened - had to do that myself, so that is an improvement
<slickymasterWork> and that's enough testing for one day
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> cyphermox: hey, just to be sure, did you need any help from us with the nm-gnome thingy or will you handle it? (just trying to keep an overview of the todos)
<cyphermox> I don't really need help to do if it you want me to
<knome> cyphermox, that would be awesome :)
<cyphermox> I was giving a chance if someone wants to do the diff and get a sponsored upload
<cyphermox> is there a bug open yet?
<knome> at this point, i think it's better to "just do it"
<knome> no, there isn't a bug
<cyphermox> ok
<knome> afaik...
<cyphermox> what's the word from mythbuntu?
<knome> i'm just looking who's with them
<knome> they seem to have bluez
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> but they're not explicitly pulling in gnome-bluetooth via seeds
<knome> mario...yeah, let me ping him
<ochosi> thanks cyphermox!
<ochosi> it's much appreciated
<knome> PM'd superm1, waiting for a reply
<cyphermox> ok
<elfy> brainwash: ok - so it is now at 50% success rate ... 
<jhenke> would be awsome if we can get the image of tomorrow clean of thos additional presents :)
<elfy> brainwash: looking better now after a reboot, 4 out of 5 times it has actually mounted and opened
<brainwash> elfy: ok, that's an improvement
<elfy> indeed - generally in 5 I'd be expecting none to work
<brainwash> I could increase the timeout to 2 seconds (up from 1 second), the original patch specified 5 seconds
<brainwash> so, time to prepare the branch
<elfy> I did have one instance where it mounted the main drive in it - but failed to mount the sd card - though they were both there
<RFleming> I understand there's some testing going on with thunar and USB
<knome> brainwash, prod RFleming to the right direction
<RFleming> brainwash, be gentle.  I bruise easily
<RFleming> :D
<elfy> RFleming: add the ppa https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<elfy> upgrade thunar-volman - check that usb's and the like actually mount 
<RFleming> elfy, alright, give me a moment.
<elfy> assuming you've been affected by the bug in which they don't
<RFleming> what's the but #?
<RFleming> bug #
<elfy> bug 1210898
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<RFleming> USB devices mount properly on my end
<RFleming> well not automagically
<RFleming> ok, yes... after installing exfat-utils, it mounted my key
<RFleming> it only seems to auto mount 1 key at a time
<RFleming> I've repeated it with several keys now.  The first one auto-mounts, the second does not.  If I eject the first one, and re-plug in the second one, it will auto mount
<RFleming> the same thing happens with USB hard drives with multiple partitions.  The first partition mounts, the rest do not
<elfy> I just plugged in 4 and they all worked
<elfy> not got exfat-utils here
<RFleming> where do I check the automount settings?
<RFleming> got it
<RFleming> elfy, let me try your test PPA and see if they all mount when plugged in.
<elfy> it's not mine - much too close to voodooery 
<elfy> it's brainwash's :)
<RFleming> how do I revert back? :)
<elfy> sudo ppa-purge ppa:thad-fisch/test
<elfy> I'm going to run with it for a day or two at least here
<RFleming> ok, thunar-volman (0.8.0-4test1) installed
<RFleming> ok, USB HDD with multiple partitions... they all mount
<elfy> yea - but did they previously? 
<RFleming> add usb exfat usb key, it mounts
<elfy> if they did then that's not proven 
<RFleming> add another usb key, it mounts too
<RFleming> elfy, as I previously stated... thunar would automount the first USB key, but not the second.
<RFleming> Thunar would mount the first partition on a USB HDD, but not the second
<RFleming> now... with the new thunar-volman, Thunar automounts ALL partitions of the USB HDD, and when additional USB devices are attached, they mount as well.
<RFleming> old action = first device, none of the others
<RFleming> new action = all devices
<RFleming> USB devices are a mix of file systems, 2 NTFS, 1 fat32, 1 exfat
<knome> i guess that's a different problem solved...
<RFleming> am I making sense?
<RFleming> sometimes I wonder.
<knome> you are
<RFleming> knome, ok.  Just checking.
<RFleming> Alright, I'm reverting back
<RFleming> alright.  I've reverted back
<RFleming> it works like the test version
<RFleming> everything is still automounting when plugged in.
<RFleming> oh, well not everything
<RFleming> USB HDD with multiple partitions, only the main partition mounts.  The other does not.
<brainwash> Noskcaj: is https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ok?
<brainwash> well, the patch seems to improve auto-mounting and people confirmed it upstream
<brainwash> so it's a win situation
<knome> can approve the general direction and would argue it would be something to fix/land even after final freeze
<brainwash> canoncial, give us 1 more week! please! :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, You forgot to run "update-maintainer"
<elfy> "Ever since the new improved Whisker Menu, I find no need for the bottom panel. Up until then, I always had one. Now my Favorites take its place. Ever since the new improved Whisker Menu, I find no need for the bottom panel. Up until then, I always had one. Now my Favorites take its place. "
<brainwash> what files does this change?
<brainwash> can I still run it afterwards?
<Noskcaj> Also, leave the patch unapplied for ease of review  (Where possible, only have the patches that were already applied, applied)
<Noskcaj> and yes, it changes the maintainer in the control file
<Noskcaj> without that, bzr-buildpackage fails
<knome> elfy, pastefail? ;)
<brainwash> mmh
<Unit193> knome: He thinks if he tells himself that enough, it'll be true. ;)
<RFleming> haha
<knome> hah
<elfy> knome: nope - meant to add that it's a quote from someone
<knome> well done...
<knome> elfy, yeah, you just pasted the quote itself twice...
<elfy> ohhh
<RFleming> whoosh!
<knome> but i can agree repeating IS one of the ways to make a message strongs
<knome> *stronger
<knome> i don't know what i'm typing anymore
<RFleming> definition if insanity?
<elfy> yea pastefail then - did that just as everything went STOP as it got to the end of searching for all the image tests from trusty ... 
<elfy> STUPID system :|
<knome> mmh, the daily images are in better shape than i ever could think though
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> 3 new names on upgrade test reports
<elfy> package testing has come to an abrupt halt - but with 230 tests and 50 bugs we should be pleased 
<knome> yeah...
<knome> please don't find any new bugs
<knome> makes the stats look bad
<knome> ;)
<elfy> I was thinking of closing the package tracker tbh
<elfy> marking it ready
<knome> nah
<elfy> then I'm on the hunt for 10 new bugs by Sunday :p
<knome> yw :P
<knome> i can't see much benefit on closing it
<knome> and no cons on not closing it
<brainwash> Noskcaj: now ok https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ?
<elfy> knome: fair enough
<RFleming> brainwash, as an added benefit, reverting back to the released thunar-volman, all my USB keys mount now, not just the first one :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yep, all good
<brainwash> did you restart thunar and/or thunar-volman?
<RFleming> yes
<RFleming> I used 4 devices.  3 USB keys, (2 USB2, 1 USB3), and a USB3 HDD enclosure.  The HDD has a Windows 7 install with 2 partitions, one SYSTEM, the other the OS.  The three USB keys have 1 partition each, the past behaviour was the first device attached got auto-mounted, the rest didn't.  With your version ALL devices/partitions auto-mounted.  Reverting back, ALL USB keys auto-mount, as does the OS partition on the HDD, but the System partitio
<RFleming> n does not.
<brainwash> ah ok
<intekulan> is libreoffice supposed to look like windows 98? I don't think I remember it like this
<Noskcaj> intekulan, I'm guessing something broke gtk for you
<Noskcaj> But i have no idea what, or if people already know about the issue
<Unit193> intekulan: libreoffice-gtk (or something like that) installed?
<RFleming> or libreoffice-style-*
<intekulan> checking
<elfy> Unit193: it's not automatically installed 
<intekulan> ii  libreoffice-style-galaxy 
<elfy> or wasn't here
<elfy> intekulan: libreoffice-gtk
<intekulan> elfy: installing 
<intekulan> much better :) maybe include that as dependency?
<elfy> then it looks odd in win2k
<intekulan> k
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> intekulan: It's not a dep though, you can use it without that, or with -kde, or something else maybe.  It's recommended, IIRC, so should be installed if you install 'libreoffice' the "normal" way.
<knome> cyphermox, mythbuntu probably wants to drop bluetooth stuff for good. still waiting for a confirmation
<elfy> I only install calc and writer
<intekulan> I did sudo apt-get install libreoffice-writer hoping to only get the writer. :p
<RFleming> intekulan, and you did :)
<RFleming> what's the problem? :D
<intekulan> Libreoffice-math
<intekulan> oh, it's just the equation tool
<brainwash> libreoffice.. wrong channel :P
<brainwash> we use the fabulous abiword and gnumeric :)
<brainwash> Logan_: you there?
<RFleming> I just wish the fabulous orage hooked up to services :)
<brainwash> someone has implement it
<brainwash> has to
<knome> lol
<brainwash> a Xfce hackfest would be awesome
<elfy> I could get some popcorn
<brainwash> and do some cheerleading?
<elfy> depends :)
<knome> when did this channel turn into -offtopic-offtopic?
<knome> :P
<elfy> about 10 minutes ago ... 
<elfy> :)
<elfy> so - to get things back on an even keel - when are -marketing going to deal with their blueprint ... 
<knome> nevar!
<elfy> I see 
<elfy> :)
<knome> well i guess a minute before release ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> :POSTPONED
<knome> there are many complex work items
<knome> which are blocked by trivial work items :P
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> well not really
<knome> but we're really close to having the flyer content ready
<elfy> cool
<knome> once that's done, i have to sit down some time with inkscape...
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_flyer_draft.png
<knome> as you see, we're almost done...
<elfy> looks good :)
<starrats> knome and elfy I was just glancing at that flyer, it looks great
<starrats> One multiple question on the flyer.  How will folks be able to get this flyer and where will they be available?
<elfy> download I expect 
<knome> will make sure it's readily available, people can then print them at home and spread as they want
<starrats> by the way are there still luds around?  Used to be a site online that would/could tell you if one was in your community, I belonged to one years back at Kent State University.
<starrats> lugs
<knome> there surely are LUGs
<starrats> ok LUGS
<jhenke> good night folks
<knome> night jhenke 
<elfy> night jhenke 
<knome> cyphermox, ack from mythbuntu: they are ok if gnome-bluetooth is demoted to suggests
<knome> zequence, what was it what you wanted for bluetooth stuff for studio again?
<knome> cyphermox, humph, looking at old bugs, you have fixed this issue already...
<knome> in 2011
<knome> cyphermox, though it's re-raised as bug 1301045, which is now marked invalid
<ubottu> bug 1301045 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "gnome-bluetooth and empathy pull in unity-control-center on Ubuntu GNOME packageset installation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301045
<knome> cyphermox, original bug is bug 844027
<ubottu> bug 844027 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Consider dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844027
<knome> oh, hmm, that's -applet
<knome> and the new bug isn't exactly this bug anyway, confusing things already (1am)
<cyphermox> well, it's the same thing really
<cyphermox> I must have forgotten about it when I did one Humongous Debian Merge (tm)
<cyphermox> I'd still be doing this thing in applet, not elsewhere
<knome> but we'd need it in network-manager-gnome
<knome> aiui
<Unit193> That's the applet.
<knome> oookay.
<Unit193> "This package contains a systray applet for GNOME's notification area but it also works for other desktop environments which provide a systray like KDE or Xfce"
<knome> rright, so -applet source creates -gnome package
<knome> right.
<Unit193> I was going to say, because network-manager hasn't been sync'd for quite some time.
<cyphermox> Unit193: no, it hasn't
<knome> cyphermox, would the old bug do?
<cyphermox> I'll reopen one shortly
<knome> ok, i can make other flavors ack on the bug if you want
<bluesabre> knome: yes
<bluesabre> re: ibus
<knome> re what ibus
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> re banish ibus
<knome> hmm...
<knome> it gets pulled in via gnome-bluetooth.
<knome> cyphermox is looking/fixing
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> fun
<knome> what else is gnome-bluetooth pulling?
<bluesabre> too much backlog
<knome> unity-control-center! ta-dag!
<knome> *ta-dah
<bluesabre> ta-dang!
<cyphermox> yes
<knome> at least we noticed that...
<cyphermox> I'll fix later tonight or tomorrow, currently trying to do an in-depth inventory of Lego pieces
<knome> sounds like a priority task, thumbs up
<knome> :)
<knome> says the one who has been playing openttd all day
<GridCube> its there any test i could perform on my netbook that any of you could need?
<bluesabre> I don't have anything specific atm
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> iso size dropped 20mb in the past 2 days
<bluesabre> trimming the fat
<knome> hah, just dropping apps because they have bugs
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> crap, guess my apps were pulled
<bluesabre> I'm guessing ochosi is already away
<knome> he's been on and off
<knome> but not around for some time
<bluesabre> suppose I should work on releases with translations this weekend
<knome> maybe...
<knome> bluesabre, tell me,
<knome> where's the desktop right-click .menu file
<knome> and tell me
<knome> what's "menu manager"?
<knome> is it brought by whiskermenu
<bluesabre> ~/.config/menus/xfce4-applications.menu
<bluesabre> menu manager?
<knome> or is it... hmmm
<knome> that must be that weird thing
<knome> right
<knome> i'll remove
<bluesabre> you're not making a lot of sense...
<knome> yeah, it was an old artefact on launchpad
<knome> which i installed
<knome> and now ran
<knome> and it messed up my menu
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> (surprise!)
<bluesabre> "alacarte"?
<knome> no
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> xubuntu-menu-manager
<knome> .
<bluesabre> I recommend menulibre ;)
<knome> should menu file changes be live immediately?
<knome> is the latest menulibre version in a ppa for saucy?
<knome> see, lots of questions
<bluesabre> doesn't work in saucy
<bluesabre> requires gnome-menus 3.10
<bluesabre> there is a saucy package
<bluesabre> but it will crash after every change
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i'm running 2.0.3 in saucy
<knome> and it's not crashing.
<bluesabre> lucky
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> heh
<knome> so...
<knome> how do i edit the top menu items?
<knome> i guess no way with our current menu structure?
<bluesabre> 2.0.3 should work
<bluesabre> normal xfce menu or whisker?
<knome> normal
<knome> well, the desktop right-click menu
<knome> so i guess normal...
<bluesabre> should be able to edit to top-level items
<bluesabre> the menu applications sometimes don't update immediately
<bluesabre> give them 5 seconds
<knome> yeah... i noticed
<knome> so, how do i edit the top-level items?
<knome> hmm
<bluesabre> they should be listed
<bluesabre> click them, edit them
<knome> menulibre says 13.03.15...
<knome> but apt-get says 2.0.3
<knome> ???
<bluesabre> ???
<bluesabre> apt-cache policy menulibre
<bluesabre> which one has ***
<knome> wait no, 13.03.15
<knome> but i can't upgrade to 2.0.3
 * knome gives up
<knome> i should upgrade to trusty tomorrow
<bluesabre> apt-get remove
<bluesabre> then install again
<bluesabre> the 13.* packages for saucy should be gone now
<bluesabre> remove, update, install
<knome> mm
<knome> yeah, that works
<bluesabre> good news
<bluesabre> now it should crash for you
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> "should"
<knome> yay...
 * knome facepalms at segfaults
<bluesabre> welcome to the future!
<knome> but generally, good work
<knome> if the future is a segfault, no thanks
<bluesabre> only on saucy ;)
<bluesabre> oh boy, more indicator updates
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> let's see if everything still works when I reboot
<knome> it would be nice if there was any other way to show the separators than dashes...
<bluesabre> I agree
<bluesabre> but then they would not be draggable
<knome> maybe â's?
<knome> would maybe make it a solid line
<knome> (that's an emdash)
<bluesabre> it's worth looking into
<bluesabre> there is probably some hackery I can try
<bluesabre> might try to improve that this weekend
<bluesabre> Unit193: I bet you would know the answer to this:
<bluesabre> I seem to have some things stuck in apport (can't clear them away, can't report them away)
<bluesabre> how the heck do I make apport stop popping up?
<bluesabre> (besides removing apport)
<knome> bluesabre, purge.
<bluesabre> I need to keep my environment together until release day, takes to long to put back together
<bluesabre> *too
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-12
<knome> be back tomorrow; have fun
<bluesabre> well, that's not pretty
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305129
<bluesabre> indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard without an icon, ibus
<bluesabre> maybe tomorrow's iso will look a bit better
<Unit193> bluesabre: /var/crash/
<OvenWerk1> Unit193: remove the files inside or the whole directory?
<juanmontoya> Hello, has anyone considered changing the default colors of the xcfe4-terminal? Some colors are too dark to be readable... :/
<Unit193> OvenWerk1: That was to remove bothering of crashes, the files there.
<OvenWerk1> Unit193: Thankyou. Yes that helps.
<Unit193> Heh, sure.
<OvenWerk1> (switching the nvidia driver to the open one seems to help more)
<Unit193> apport-cli can show you them.
<jhenke> good morning
<jhenke> morning elfy
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<jhenke> i guess most of the people here are still away/sleeping?
<elfy> that and saturday :)
<jhenke> well I had a nice little nephew waking me at 6:30 am ^^
<jhenke> just being courious whether todays image will be clean of those extra indicators
<elfy> I'd not count on it
<jhenke> I have a netbook here, where I would want to install xubuntu (was my sisters running WinXP), but as it does not accept booting from USB sticks, I want a "clean" image to install it
<elfy> I understand - all you can do is zsync ~11:00UTC and see
<elfy> the image is 'usually' new at ~10ish
<jhenke> yep, just still hoping it would work today ;)
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> elfy: Could check manifests.
<elfy> oh yea - those things
<elfy> not sure when that would be changed though
<elfy> current doesn't have blueman 
<knome> aiui, there is NO NEW IMAGES unless we request a respin
<knome> slickymaster, have you had bug 1196625 in a long time?
<ubottu> bug 1196625 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 in _XReadEvents()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196625
<olbi> I have still this bug from time to time :]
<knome> wondering if the assignee is really working on it, has 2 karma on launchpad and no memberships
<knome> sorry, 5 lp karma...
<olbi> why installer is still in english and my own lang when I choose my lang? there should be only my own lang cause translation was done on launchpad before the beta 2 :/
<knome> how much before?
<olbi> a month?
<olbi> i'm trying to localize Xubuntu as much as possible but it is sometime very hard to do this :/
<knome> polish is your language? i see 28 untranslated strings
<olbi> wtf? there were translations and it's gone :/
<olbi> what is going on with this launchpad :/
<knome> did you do the translations before we did the call for translations? it's likely that you have translated old strings.
<jhenke> knome I thought there are new images generated once a day? hence daily image?
<knome> jhenke, not during RC
<jhenke> :(
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate
<jhenke> "During the week leading up to the final release, the images produced are all considered release candidates" ?
<jhenke> sounds like daily images to me, or is something tricking my mind right now?
<knome> is
<knome> " In an ideal world, the first one would end up being the final release..."
<knome> the idea of a release candidate is "do not change it if it works"
<jhenke> well I do not want to argue about it
<jhenke> well ours did not work as expected yesterday...
<knome> no problem really
<knome> yes, and still wouldn't, so we haven't yet rebuild
<knome> we can do that when we need to, though
<jhenke> okay then I guess it makes no sense to test the new one (which according to the website was build just some minutes ago)
<jhenke> 12-Apr-2014 10:05
<knome> well it "always" makes sense...
<knome> there might be other things landed that might have regressions
<knome> just not realistic to expect unfixed things to be fixed in that ISO :)
<jhenke> my hope was that the dependecy chane would be solved by the time the ISO was generated
<jhenke> you know, optimism ;)
<knome> i doubt so...
<jhenke> well I'll test it any way then, the most useful thing I can do right now :(
<brainwash> so, do you we already need to write a SRU report for merge requests? non-critical issues ofc
<knome> anything that will be a SRU will need a SRU report at some point
<brainwash> mmh, some point
<brainwash> so we've already passed that point, right?
<knome> well, before it's landing as a SRU :P
<knome> that question both makes and doesn't make sense
<jhenke> I think so, the release candidate mail sounded like everything is a SRU now, except release blocking bugs
<knome> yep.
<brainwash> we don't have any blockers :)
<knome> so things that won't go into the release, are SRU material
<knome> for those, you will need SRU reports
<brainwash> ok
<knome> upgrading to trusty
<knome> mrh
<starrats> good morning everyone
<brainwash> bug 1306917
<ubottu> bug 1306917 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker: screen always locked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306917
<brainwash> can anyone confirm this?
<brainwash> knome: can we move bug 1270894 to 14.04.1?
<ubottu> bug 1270894 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "Sorting by date or name not working properly in thumbnail bar" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270894
<brainwash> patched abiword available from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
<knome> brainwash, can and should.
<brainwash> do I need to create an extra bug report to request an update of abiword via debdiff?
<brainwash> or can I simply attach it to one of the existing reports (3)?
<knome> i... don't know the answer to that question :P
<knome> i guess you'd need a sponsorshhip bug
<brainwash> I think so too
<knome> which could be one of the existing bugs, but would be cleaner if it wasn't, since it fixes multiple issues
<brainwash> well, first it needs to be tested
<brainwash> I don't want to attach a bad debdiff :)
<brainwash> elfy: please test https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
<brainwash> you can find the bug numbers in the PPA description
<knome> i'm not sure if those bugs would be critical enough to warrant a final freeze exception...
<knome> the crash on exporting PDF is semi-nasty
<brainwash> sru then
<brainwash> quick sru
<knome> there is no quick SRU... it's .1 in 6 months
<knome> we can push them to updates though
<brainwash> yes, update
<knome> yes, sure
<brainwash> but it's that a sru?
<knome> not necessarily
<knome> a SRU means the change will be on the next ISO
<knome> withtout a need to upgrade your system
<brainwash> ah, that's fine
<knome> and it will also be landing for *everybody*
<brainwash> so it will stay broken on the live cd
<knome> not just those who opted in for extra updates
<knome> for 14.04, yes...
<knome> (unless we want to argue it getting a final freeze exception)
<brainwash> which triggers a respin, correct?
<knome> it doesn't trigger one, but obviously we'd like one
<knome> but we will need one for the bluetooth stuff.
<brainwash> a respin for abiword alone is overkill
<knome> sure.
<knome> but that might be an indicator it's overkill to break the final freeze with it
<knome> brainwash, for future convenience, can you drop in the bug titles to the PPA description along with their numbers
<knome> brainwash, i'm thinking the PDF export bug might warrant the exception.
<knome> and while we do that, we could land the other two
<knome> but i'd poke around in -release and ask what people think
<knome> also, i should be able to test the PPA soonish
<knome> 14:15  knome: what's the general thought about fixing a low, but annoying bug along with a high/critical bug during the final freeze?
<knome> 14:15  knome: (in the same package)
<knome> 14:19  cjwatson: I'd probably be OK with it as long as the diff was clear and we could make a good estimate from it that the risk is low
<knome> brainwash, bug 1292290 ?
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> knome: well, it's a bug I can confirm
<knome> but not triage? :|
<brainwash> no, but maybe fix if I take a look at the source :D
<knome> i could approve that as late fix...
<knome> if it really is as the bug says, and is impacting many users (which i'm not sure of)
<brainwash> there is also bug 1303404
<ubottu> bug 1303404 in libxfce4ui "Hotkeys overriding each other" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303404
<brainwash> and maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/migrate-kb-shortcuts
<knome> mhm..
<brainwash> they have changed <control> to <primary> in 4.11
<knome> the merge would make sense, but again, final freeze...
<brainwash> <control> should work fine, but once you hit the "reset keybinds" button, it will also add the <primary> version of the keybind
<knome> hmh
<knome> that's a low-priority issue then
<brainwash> this needs some time to fix
<knome> it's... a bit annoying, but not a huge issue imo
<brainwash> all 3 issues I mean
<knome> talking about the last one
<brainwash> yes
<knome> sicne it only happens when you are at that dialog, it's barely a problem :)
<knome> and in a way, it doesn't make as much sense to land the fix for .1... :|
<jhenke> ahh, yes now that you mention that explains some behaviour when changing keybindings
<brainwash> we need to forward it upstream at least
<knome> sure
<brainwash> so there won't be any fix before release
<knome> if there is a fix for the two bugs, i'm ok to approve those, but the migration stuff, nah
<knome> brb, booting to trusty side of things!
<bluesabre> hey guys
<bluesabre> has anybody looked at why indicator-keyboard and indicator-datetime seem to be in the latest nightlies?
<bluesabre> or do I have a project now?
<jhenke> it was assumed they came via the dependecy chain, as gnome-bluetooth was pulled in and with it gnome-control-center and unity-control-center
<knome> hmm... not able to login graphically
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> fun
<bluesabre> remove indicator-datetime indicator-keyboard
<bluesabre> installs gnome-control-center
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> so the dependencies need to be tweaked
<bluesabre> anybody looking into this currently?
<bluesabre> is this something cyphermox was looking at?
<jhenke> bluesabre I think we need to look into that once gnome-bluetooth is gone
<jhenke> I think so
<bluesabre> ok, so we are removing gnome-bluetooth then?
<jhenke> afaik the agreed solution is to demote it from recommend to suggest on network-manager-gnome
<jhenke> that should stop pulling it into the default install
<elfy> brainwash: confirm that fixes those 3 abiword bugs
<elfy> apparently does so for bug 1054315 
<ubottu> bug 1054315 in AbiWord "abiword crashed with SIGABRT" [Critical,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054315
<brainwash> elfy: thanks
<brainwash> the linked report is marked as invalid
<elfy> no idea why - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen - just that it got marked invalid ;)
<elfy> it might have been that guy wandering around making vague pronouncements on our bugs :p
<knome> hmm, i'm having problems getting lightdm to run on upgrade from 13.10
<bluesabre> that's unusual
<knome> o'rly? :P
<bluesabre> anything in the logs?
<knome> it's probably related to xrandr not being able to open any display..
<bluesabre> O.o
<knome> can see plymouth when i don't use the nvidia driver
<bluesabre> seems like you should have answered elfy's calls for testing ;)
<knome> but it just loads infinitely
<knome> hey, production machines!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> maybe install the nvidia proprietary drivers, and run nvidia-xconfig?
<knome> i *just* did that
<knome> but i'm pretty sure that won't fix it
<knome> i've tried with a veeeery similar xorg file and the proprietary drivers installed
<knome> jockey-text is a joke
<knome> it never does anything
<knome> i'm just it is just sleep(random)
<elfy> pebkac
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1306905
<ubottu> bug 1306905 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "action buttons always ask for confirmation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306905
<brainwash> "Since today's daily update,..."
<knome> elfy, feel free to prove me wrong and point where the problem is...
<elfy> between the keyboard and the chair - that's the bkac bit :p
<knome> yes, and what is that problem?
<elfy> :p
<elfy> try esc and see if it's hanging at nvidia-prime 
<knome> that says ok.. persistenced daemon says fail
<elfy> not seen that in my travels
<knome> "starting ligthdm display manager"  -> fail
<knome> "starting send an event to indicate plymouth is up"  -> fail
<elfy> brainwash: I have no idea what that bug report even means 
<brainwash> the confirmation dialog (ok or cancel + 30sec timeout)
<elfy> and that means just as much
<elfy> what confirmation button in panel configuration says that?
<brainwash> action button
<elfy> ?
<brainwash> top right corner (old panel layout)
<brainwash> the thingy with your name
<elfy> oh
<elfy> action plugin
<brainwash> O.O
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> well, this particular user has reported some "bugs" which I cannot confirm at all
<elfy> right 
<elfy> I might understand why - hang on I'll comment
<elfy> I thought your volman thing was up the kibosh this morning - following updates - EVERYTHING including reboot wanted a password - once I rebooted all was ok again
<elfy> suspend from there works
<elfy> fine - and now that I've gotten used to it in whiskermenuI see that I could have had buttons on the panel 
<elfy> knome: I can't find anything re that lightdm issue of yours
<bluesabre> knome: what happens if you delete your existing Xorg.conf?
 * bluesabre works on getting rid of gnome-bluetooth
<knome> bluesabre, nothing.
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> bluesabre, well, when i deleted that and the nvidia driver, i got to plymoith
<knome> *plymouth
<knome> which kept on loading infinitely
<bluesabre> whats the graphics card?
<knome> nvidia geforce gtx 560 ti
<bluesabre> yup, no idea
<knome> yup
<bluesabre> since you did an upgrade, do you still have the old kernels installed?
<knome> not, removed them
<knome> but i could reinstall them
 * knome facepalm
<bluesabre> I'd try that, otherwise...
<bluesabre> #xubuntu is the support channel
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf didn't specify user session or greeter
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that's lame
<knome> i read that elfy had that problem before
<elfy> that's gone
<knome> elfy, really? how did it occur to me today then... :)
<knome> that fixes it...
<elfy> look in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/
<elfy> 60-light ... blah I think is where greeter is specified now
<knome> yeah.. but to be exact
<knome> lightdm.conf had them set to null
<knome> eg user_session=
<knome> would the .d files still overwrite?
<elfy> knome: here I have no /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf at all - try # them or renaming them
<knome> well i just specified them
<knome> and that fixes the issue as i said
<knome> i'll go and enable nvidia now
<knome> i can look at the lightdm conf after that
<elfy> didn't see you say it was fixed
<knome> 16:45  knome: that fixes it...
<knome> i wouldn't have any clue to look there unless i found your forum thread
<elfy> oh - I thought that was a sarky comment to my 'that's gone' lol
<knome> so indirect thanks ;)
<elfy> forum's are rubbish apparently :D
<knome> no, i'm hardly snarky/joking when i'm debugging
<elfy> :)
<knome> forum usability is still rubbish ;)
<elfy> not for me :)
<knome> yeah, i can understand and respect different people liking different methods
<elfy> I can too - and do use different methods
<knome> yep
<knome> i just can't deal with the slow pace of forums
<knome> well, it's probably not slow paced all the time
<knome> but it's somehow.. so scattered :|
<elfy> I really need to try and get my head around what's gone on with lightdm
<knome> maybe you should ask bluesabre 
<elfy> I try hard to catch xubuntu stuff on my forum and make sure it is prefixed with xubuntu
<knome> yeah, but even that isn't the problem :)
<elfy> nope - it can be slow 
<knome> by scattered i mean that even if the forum was perfectly organized (which it never is), and all posts were tagged, you would still have to dig for stuff consistently
<knome> ok, confess, WHO SWITCHED MY MONITOR ORDER
<knome> left is virtually right and right is virtually left
<knome> one more reboot...
<elfy> bert was in charge of switching monitors
<knome> i've been speedy
<knome> it never occurred to me that nvidia-settings would be in the... settings manager
<elfy> knome: yep - I use a search engine for buntu generally - usually works 
 * knome facepalms with a splat
<elfy> knome: all sorts of things get left in there ... 
<knome> i even made the right hand side monitor the primary one
<knome> which has been bugging me since we moved here in mid-december
<bluesabre> I don't know what happens with lightdm
<bluesabre> we bug robert if there's an issue
<bluesabre> s/we/ochosi
<knome> my favorite CLI command
<knome> sudo apt-get purge apport
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> back later 
<elfy> bluesabre: it's not so much issue - just wth has been moved about :)
<bluesabre> also, I don't get that either ;)
<bluesabre> knome: is cyphermox leading the charge on bluetooth?
<elfy> bluesabre: I'm glad it's not just me then :p
<knome> bluesabre, yes, but please make sure removing it helps with removing stuff you want out
<knome> elfy, what was the bug for the lightdm issue?
<elfy> knome: my one?
<knome> i found it, bug 1267442
<ubottu> bug 1267442 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "Install nvidia-331 on X/K/Lubuntu results in unbootable machine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267442
<elfy> yea that's it - back later
<bluesabre> I love the fact that nvidia-prime actually works in trusty
<knome> bluesabre, i like the prime messages:
<knome> ** Message: PRIME: No offloading required. Abort
<knome> ** Message: PRIME: is it supported? no
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> well, it works for my new laptop with the haswell/nvidia combo
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> mh
<bluesabre> ok, tested a package with gnome-bluetooth moved to suggests, it seems to work
<bluesabre> reinstalling the existing package adds these things:
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305191
<bluesabre> installing the new package:
<knome> too lazy to copypaste?
<bluesabre> vm doesnt have extensions installed
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305192
<knome> copypaste to a file in vm, cat file | pastebinit
<brainwash> mmh, I guess that we know that already
<bluesabre> anyway, if cyphermox is handling it, cool, otherwise, let me know if I need to bug the sponsors
<brainwash> he said so
<brainwash> but it takes soooo long :)
<brainwash> where can we even track the status?
<knome> bluesabre, he is, but stay on your toes just in case
<knome> brainwash, please stop whining
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I'll push a merge request tomorrow morning if I don't hear anything
<knome> bluesabre, it involves studio and mythbuntu seed, so careful! :)
<bluesabre> ah
<brainwash> but ibus is not involved?
<bluesabre> one sec
<brainwash> or did you forget to remove it manually
<bluesabre> forgot to remove it
<bluesabre> 1. new package does not pull ibus
<bluesabre> 2. old (current) package does
<bluesabre> so yes, fixes ibus as well
<brainwash> ok
<bluesabre> so, installation diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7239825/
<bluesabre> which is silly
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, pretty much...
<bluesabre> besides that issue, and abiword's zaniness, the release looks awesome
<bluesabre> I am so ready to move on to libreoffice
<bluesabre> going to really push for that next release
<knome> hmm...
<bluesabre> since abiword and gnumeric are some of the worst-designed gtk apps there are
<knome> that would make the ISO over a gig though
<knome> what about just dropping them altogether?
<bluesabre> I wouldn't mind that personally
<knome> well the next big target is 16.04
<bluesabre> right
<knome> do (most) people really do their office stuff locally and not in the cloud in 2016?
<knome> well i don't know, probably nobody knows
<bluesabre> plenty of opinions on that ofc
<knome> but i would say dropping abiword and gnumeric will make *more* sense *after* 14.04
<bluesabre> right-o
<knome> regardless if it's (still) the optimal choice or not
<knome> but i don't know
<knome> i'm not the one who decides...
<knome> 5 days and i'm free!
<bluesabre> :'(
<knome> we need to keep rolling forward
<bluesabre> let's have some fun and put Unit193 in charge through the next LTS
<brainwash> bug 1306952
<ubottu> bug 1306952 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword bug fix update for trusty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306952
<bluesabre> I'll take that for a spin
<knome> bluesabre, please also ask for an ACK from the release team
<bluesabre> of course
<knome> i've asked about that yesterday and cjwatson said he'd probably ACK it if the diff was clean
<bluesabre> brainwash: works well
<bluesabre> knome: abiword or bluetooth?
<knome> abiword
<knome> i've no reason to think the bluetooth issue wouldn't be approved either
<knome> only one of the abiword bugs were *actually* critical enough to be worth acking a final freeze exception
<knome> the thing i asked from -release was if we could slip in a few low-prio bugs as well
<brainwash> what about https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ?
<brainwash> or https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling
<brainwash> is it worth to release an update after release?
<knome> if volman actually fixes stuff (as it seems to), we could try to push it in
<knome> and fast... to be done with one respin.
<brainwash> indeed
<knome> untiling? i'm not so sure if it's final freeze exception material
<brainwash> the xfwm4 one hae very low priority
<knome> and it's another package
<brainwash> has
<knome> so i'd consider that something for .1
<knome> or just regular updates
<bluesabre> ^
<knome> linked the branch to the .1 blueprint
<brainwash> ok, I just imaging people being very annoyed about this, tiling seems to quite popular and people surely want the original window size back after untiling
<bluesabre> yeah, its an annoyance, but not a showstopper
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate says it clearly
<brainwash> but maybe that's not the case, there isn't even a lp report addressing this :D
<knome> "... changes ... will only be allowed for very high-priority bugs that might justify delaying the release."
<knome> fixing untiling?
<knome> naaaah
<brainwash> as update after release
<brainwash> but before .1
<bluesabre> I love how to-the-point that is
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes
<bluesabre> its a bugfix
<knome> and seriously, adding an icon to the abiword about dialog? hahah.
<knome> DELAY THE RELEASE, WE ARE MISSING AN ICON!
<brainwash> :P
<knome> but yeah, if it can slip in with other high/critical stuff..
<brainwash> why not include it
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> it could be critical
<bluesabre> have you seen some linux reviews?
<bluesabre> we have more wallpapers now
<knome> brainwash, yes, let's include it.
<bluesabre> our userbase is going to return!
<knome> bluesabre, surely... :)
<brainwash> more wallpapers, but no bottom panel... so
<bluesabre> actually, now we don't have a screensaver
<bluesabre> people are going to FREAK
<brainwash> oh snap
<knome> yes, the default desktop doesn't look like the desktop of the future
<knome> ...that's how windows XP looked, btw
<knome> yes, some of the reactions to dropping xscreensaver have been... interesting
<bluesabre> ok, the patches look sane
<bluesabre> going to make a branch and then bug the release folks
<brainwash> bluesabre: can we include https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed for .1? this implements the "zoomed" resize style properly, so the smooth greeter -> desktop transition works every time without any background changes
<bluesabre> link it
<brainwash> currently it scales the background correctly, but does not move it to the center of the screen
<bluesabre> I've never had any issues with it myself
<knome> brainwash, sounds like update stuff to me
<knome> but we should probably sit down with it
<knome> and read policies and ask about conventions
<brainwash> it's an improvement
<knome> and then see what we want to push as SRU's
<brainwash> not a bug fix
<bluesabre> its a bugfix for the greeter
<brainwash> alright
<brainwash> how is this a bug fix?
<bluesabre> zoomed isn't right if it doesn't center
<brainwash> but no one noticed
<brainwash> so it worked like expected
<knome> "no one noticed, can't be a bug"
<bluesabre> well, its always worked right for me
<knome> no, that's incorrect
<knome> if nobody noticed a bug that got fixed, it was still a bug
<bluesabre> but if there is an instance where it doesn't work
<bluesabre> we should fix it
<brainwash> if you chose a wallpaper with correct aspect ratio then you won't notice
<bluesabre> create a bug for lightdm-gtk-greeter
<bluesabre> and link your branch
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> ok :D
<bluesabre> there's another bug I need to fix for the greeter this weekend
<intekulan> audio indicator is back, I love you people :D
<bluesabre> so I will probably roll that in with it
<knome> Stable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs.
<knome> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<bluesabre> Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel). 
<brainwash> bluesabre: well, you should test my branch first, pick some background picture with strange aspect ratio
<bluesabre> brainwash: I'll take a vertical selfie and set it
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I don't merge without testing ;)
<knome> +1
<bluesabre> and I almost always tweak other people's fixes
<knome> though i'm sure your selfie will break it, and your monitor
<bluesabre> I'm finicky
<knome> (and the camera)
<bluesabre> knome: most likely
<bluesabre> better take a picture of the cat instead
<bluesabre> look at the adorable kitty http://www.raydavisphotography.com/2014/04/10/the-simplest-answer-is-to-act/
<bluesabre> bah
<bluesabre> abiword doesn't have an ubuntu branch
<bluesabre> brainwash: have you poked #ubuntu-release yet?
<bluesabre> added my poke
 * knome goes testing menulibre
<knome> bluesabre, the advanced tab when editing a menu item has weird font antialiasing
<brainwash> bluesabre: why does the light-locker-settings window always appear in the bottom right corner when I open it?
<brainwash> what prevents it from being centered?
<brainwash> it seems to be placed relative to the settings manager window
<knome> bluesabre, how do i make something appear under settings manager->other instead of sm->system (or any other place)
<knome> hmm, i crashed menulibre...
<knome> hmm, and now it keeps breaking my menu
<knome> i think i touched the tralala
<knome> and especially the dingdingdong
<knome> of menulibre
<knome> bluesabre, poke -release again
<bluesabre> brainwash: there is a property that is not set
<bluesabre> knome: dang you
<bluesabre> settings manager->other would be
<bluesabre> Settings -> Settings
<bluesabre> just the top one
<knome> hmm.
<Unit193> knome: Also, let me help you with your favorite line: sudo apt-get purge apport whoopsie && sudo apt-get autoremove --purge   :P
<knome> :P
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1306999
<ubottu> bug 1306999 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "When search results are shown, saving modifications breaks the menu structure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306999
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1307000
<ubottu> bug 1307000 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Menu structure view always has everything expanded after search" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307000
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1307002
<ubottu> bug 1307002 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Can't remove some categories from a launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307002
<knome> bluesabre, have fun!
<knome>  InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.10 "Oneiric Ocelot" - Release amd64 (20111012)
<knome> oh la la
<jhenke> knome sounds like good engineering that it worked up to 14.04 :D
<knome> it's been breaking with every upgrade
<knome> more or less in nasty ways..
<jhenke> I rather meant the whole system
<Unit193> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110413.2)
<jhenke> you win xD
<kajair> hello, we should make a strong team for developing xubuntu. the number of people in meetings of developing it are almost 10
<knome> yes... where have you been all these months? :)
<knome> we can't force people to take part in meetings.
<kajair> we dont force, we are showing this
<kajair> i have been in that stupid xp
<knome> who "we" ?
<kajair> some peoples alike me
<kajair> sorry for my poor english 
<knome> i don't understand your point... we need to get more people to attend the meetings?
<knome> why?
<Unit193> Coffee and donuts.
<knome> wouldn't it be better to get more people hanging around that actually contribute to xubuntu?
<kajair> yes
<kajair> the point is so simple. developing free open source os
<knome> right...
<knome> so what kind of ideas do you have to motivate people to join us?
<kajair> spread and ad. right?
<knome> i'm asking you.
<kajair> i dont/wont force anyone to use it
<kajair> ok
<kajair> i told. spreading newses and benefits and adverts
<knome> what kind of news? where?
<knome> what benefits? none of the developers are making any money out of xubuntu, how can we give users more "benefits" than the free OS?
<knome> we have one flyer, "XP to xubuntu", ready, and another is work in progress
<kajair> i sawed that
<knome> the flyer is available at http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/, you can print and spread it.
<knome> that would be http://xubuntu.org/products/ for the actual download links
<kajair> the main goals is to spread xubuntu and develop
<kajair> nothing else
<knome> you said we need news and benefits. can you elaborate what that would practically mean?
<kajair> so the new futures need to be thought
<kajair> i cant tell you quickly
<knome> you can take all the time you need, we will be here and listening
<kajair> ill promise any ideas that i and my friends thought about xubuntu will tell you
<kajair> *me
<knome> we will have brainstorming time once we have actually first kicked the LTS out of the door...
<kajair> so when will be meeting? 15 april?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings always has the next meeting time
<kajair> ok thanks
<knome> we won't be discussing brainstorming for the next release in that meeting though
<kajair> ok
<kajair> excuse me what is your profession mr knome? 
<knome> i'm an entrepreneur. i also happen to be the xubuntu project lead
<kajair> good
<kajair> ok. later
<knome> lderan, you around?
<brainwash> does setting a picture as wallpaper work via thunar's context menu?
<brainwash> we've included a patch so it should work with xfdesktop 4.11, but...
<jhenke> good night folks
<brainwash> good night jhenke 
<brainwash> anyone here willing to test it?
<knome> brainwash, worksforme in trusty
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<brainwash> it works for my 2nd user account
<brainwash> default resize style is "scaled" =S
<knome> hmm, for me i think it was what it was
<knome> but that's minor anyway
<knome> people can go and poke at it
<brainwash> right, I prefer consistency
<brainwash> "zoomed" everywhere :)
<brainwash> sadly no one noticed that and reports it in time
<brainwash> consistency helps in this case, because it does not break the smooth greeter -> desktop transition
<brainwash> oh, little typo in my abiword changelog entry :)
<brainwash> hopefully no one notices it :P
<knome> Logan_, around?
<knome> bluesabre, ACK from release team
<Logan_> knome: somewhat
<knome> Logan_, bug 1306952 needs uploading
<ubottu> bug 1306952 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword bug fix update for trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306952
<knome> Logan_, we have an ACK from the release team to land it
<knome> Logan_, are you able to get to it today?
<Logan_> has it been tested?
<knome> brainwash?
<knome> brainwash, did you get tests from others in?
<brainwash> knome: elfy did, bluesabre too I think
<brainwash> and me
<brainwash> Logan_: there is a small typo in the debian changelog, should be "..saving-as-pdf.patch" instead of "..saving-to-pdf.patch"
<brainwash> but I guess that no one will care anyway
<Logan_> brainwash: okay, I'll upload
<brainwash> thanks :)
<bluesabre0> yay, working in a library!
<brainwash> psst
<bluesabre0> what's up?
<bluesabre0> drat, library closes early tonight
<starrats> How does xfce4-mixer work if there is none in settings editor and what xfce4 is Trusty using?
<knome> why would it need to be xfce4? try pavucontrol.
<knome> oh, right, you're asking about the xfce4 version...
<knome> well, it's mostly 4.10 with some cherry-picked 4.11 components
<starrats> friend of mine has an xfce box
<starrats> yes
<starrats> and he has an xfce case not box
<starrats> I believe it was 4.8
<starrats> my friend is running xubuntu and he is looking the 'step size setting' that goes with the xfced4-mixer?
<starrats> xfce4-mixer
<lderan> knome, i am here now sorry was out
<knome> lderan, that's ok
<knome> lderan, how's the #done fixes coming along?
<lderan> i submitted the merge request for it, will ask the alan if he has looked at it yet
<starrats> does anyone know what happened to the 'volume step size setting' on xfce4-mixer?  where did it go or what replaced it?
<knome> lderan, oh, okay, so it's that far :)
<lderan> :)
<olbi> hi guys, now when MS open source allmost all .NET Platform, we add Smuxi ass default irc client in next release? :D
<Unit193> Uh, no.  That'd pull in the mono stack.  You can install smuxi in saucy or trusty now, what difference would any of that make anyway?
<brainwash> exactly, installing all the mono libraries just to run one app.. no way
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-13
<bluesabre> hey Logan_, knome
<bluesabre> we got the ACK to upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1306952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1306952 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword bug fix update for trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> there has already been discussion about this :)
<bluesabre> yay for online logs
<bluesabre> cyphermox, any news for bluetooth?
<bluesabre> knome: who should I coordinate with for ^ issue?
<jhenke> good morning, would also be curious about the state of the bluetooth issue
<elfy> wb brainwash 
<brainwash> hi elfy 
<elfy> volman is doing well % wise now :)
<brainwash> so we should definitely push it after release
<elfy> looks that way to me
<zequence> cyphermox: knome: Have you done any change to your bluetooth thing?
<brainwash> and it's a simple patch which only adds a small delay
<brainwash> so breakage is very unlikely
<elfy> brainwash: is that all it does?
<brainwash> elfy: yes
<brainwash> no magic involved
<elfy> lol - that's completely mad :)
<elfy> I guess we should move the bug to .1 then
<elfy> in fact are any of the bugs left on the bugfix blueprint going to see a fix released before thursday
<brainwash> maybe, but the problem is to get them in before final release
<elfy> yea - I guess as long as ibus and the dupe indicator is in 
<elfy> the hotkey/window manager keybindings I can't see happening
<brainwash> the thunar crash problem is .1
<elfy> the sigsev one?
<brainwash> keybinds is low prio
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> once apport is disabled for everyone, we won't get reports about this issue anymore
<brainwash> other than "thunar crashed" :)
<elfy> the xfce4 power manager issue - we trying to get that in still?
 * elfy has been missing a bit the last day or so
<brainwash> maybe
<brainwash> this one is high priority
<elfy> I'd say so
<elfy> so the power and the two abiword ones are left on the bugfix list now
<elfy> despite my original misgivings that blueprint was useful :)
<brainwash> of course it was
<elfy> t'll be longer next time ... 
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> why is ibus bug on the .1 list?
<brainwash> then we should start fixing stuff earlier :P
<brainwash> to get it back
<brainwash> well, make it compatible with Xfce
<elfy> we didn't start that blueprint until very late in the cycle
<elfy> brainwash: ohe yea - that makes sense :)
<brainwash> you could request the ibus dev to add the simple "gb" layout
<elfy> yea - that works for me - but what others ... 
<elfy> now I've found it - it'll annoy me forever and a day ;)
<brainwash> we need him to add some of the missing layouts or integrate ibus into xfce4-settings
<brainwash> so -settings will disable ibus temporary if it does not know a particular kb layout
<brainwash> but layout switching via keybind (super - space) will continue to work
<elfy> damn shame that debian don't use it in their default 
<elfy> or this would be fixed ;)
<brainwash> bug 1307045 a dupe?
<ubottu> bug 1307045 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "After hibernation computer failed to unlock upon return & completing password challenge" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307045
<brainwash> most likely I guess
<elfy> dupe to the power bug I'd guess
<elfy> he's not been about much this cycle - I doubt if he's noticed the scurrying about in here re that :)
<brainwash> oh, you are right
<elfy> marked it
<brainwash> you could have asked before if it only happens on lid close P
<elfy> I could - he'll say something I guess :)
<elfy> and anyway if it isn't - we don't support hibernate afaik :)
<brainwash> :D
<kajair> xubuntu devel list:
<kajair> 1. make file search better
<kajair> 2. compatibility with most   laptops
<kajair> 3. auto restore screen resolution after wine game
<elfy> kajair: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<kajair> ill make long list till that
<kajair> *that meeting
<brainwash> 2. is a general ubuntu task
<brainwash> 3. wine bug
<brainwash> 1. did you test the new catfish (search app)?
<kajair> catfish 0.8.2 i have. catfish should be embedded to files
<brainwash> you can open catfish via context menu from the thunar
<brainwash> from thunar
<brainwash> making it part of thunar isn't easy, catfish is a python app
<kajair> so we should make it easy
<kajair> an embedded app in file explorer
<kajair> alike xp
<kajair> but different
<elfy> kajair: so are you going to work on this then?
<kajair> elfy: im just giving ideas.
<elfy> well - what's needed is an actual specification - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Development
<kajair> ok. im starting from 0
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2293
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 2293 in general "Import search tool" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<brainwash> from 2006-09-10
<knome> zequence, not yet
<knome> brainwash, wait, why volman bug not for the release?
<brainwash> knome: no sponsor?
<knome> we have Logan_ around, and we can poke other people
<brainwash> would be great
<brainwash> but it's low priority
<knome> is it?
<knome> i would argue it's at least medium, but i don't know
<brainwash> if it does not auto mount, the user can simply manually do it
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i guess yep
<elfy> hang on
<knome> but then if it's low, it's not .1 stuff either
<brainwash> it annoys people
<elfy> this fix doesn't deal with that issue for me - what it deals with is my clip NOT APPEARING at all 
<elfy> I'd not be able to manually mount it - it's not there to manually mount
<brainwash> in thunar's sidebar?
<knome> elfy, that's what i was thinking..
<elfy> brainwash: it doesn't appear anywhere at all 
<brainwash> oh, well
<elfy> I'd not call it low - I'd call it use another OS to work on my clip ;)
<knome> :P
<elfy> but that's how I'm affected by this issue :)
<elfy> which I guess is a different bug ... 
<knome> as long as it fixes that..
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> elfy: you should add a comment to the report then
<brainwash> and mention that it works for you
<elfy> seems a bit pointless if we're going to try and land it 
<brainwash> but it helps if a reviewer checks the report
<elfy> I did comment :)
<brainwash> thanks :)
<elfy> in the meantime I can't make head nor tail of getting autologin to work :(
<brainwash> they moved the lightdm conf file
<brainwash> maybe that's the reason
<elfy> I know that - but adding the autologin lines doesn't work - anywhere that I can see
<brainwash> there is bug 1250875
<ubottu> bug 1250875 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm sometimes fails to auto login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250875
<brainwash> 2013-11-13
<brainwash> but it never works for you
<elfy> I've not get it set to do so - no way to set that :)
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/1.9.4-0ubuntu1
<elfy> remove lightdm-set-defaults
<elfy> and I've tried adding the line to the files I can see that it might be - but none appear to work
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> no clue, sorry
<elfy> I've given up for the time being - I'll just report it I think
<elfy> bit late in the day to report it really :(
<knome> late in the day or late in the cycle? :P
<elfy> cycle :p
 * elfy gets all cynical and bets it's another 'works for ubuntu' issue
<knome> heh, possible
<knome> but hey...
<knome> now that we have got the drive on
<knome> and the next release is non-LTS
<elfy> yea
<knome> we can fix a load of bugs
<elfy> and the wallpaper which makes me think my screen is cracked :D
 * elfy thinks that the mouse icon for whiskermenu should be the angular one :)
<knome> huhu
<knome> don't you like the new wallpaper ;(
<elfy> yea - was joking :)
<knome> me too
<elfy> oh good 
<knome> i don't mind you don't like it...
<elfy> cos if you didn't like it then I'm off :p
<knome> lol
<elfy> oh I know that :)
<elfy> I'll move that usb bug back to the current bugfix list then 
<knome> mh
<elfy> just in case I get karma for it 
<knome> hahah
<knome> heyy... i have a super plan
<knome> let's create two blueprints
<knome> you move bugs from A to B
<knome> and me from B to A
<elfy> awesome - do we get karma for that?
<knome> loads of karma for both
<knome> rinse and repeat
<elfy> woohoo :D
<knome> i guess...
<elfy> don't tell jackson :p
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> gaming the system
<bluesabre> I'm ashamed
<elfy> who are you gaming the system for?
<bluesabre> knome: the bluetooth/network-manager-gnome stuff affects mythbuntu and ubuntustudio, right?
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<elfy> hi :)
<knome> bluesabre, yep.
<knome> bluesabre, mythbuntu said "we never wanted bluetooth in our ISOs to begin with"
<knome> bluesabre, studio said "we'll do what you do"
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> so that sounds like an ACK to me
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> heard anything from cyphermox, or should I just get to it?
<knome> he's taken care of it before, and could upload it, so...
<knome> what's your schdule next week? weekend is.. weekend, and people might be away
<knome> he might just do it on monday when he gets back
<amigamagic> hi there
<knome> he was waiting from the ack from myth before
<bluesabre> as usual, I'm not around most of the day, most days
<elfy> amigamagic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
 * bluesabre just wants to make sure the iso is fixed
 * elfy does too
<elfy> but the time for whining is done now so all I can do is watch others :)
 * jhenke thumbs up, also waiting for a fixed iso :)
<knome> bluesabre, don't know how much of it you can do...
<knome> bluesabre, will need an uploader anyway
<bluesabre> I can poke uploaders and hope for some outcome
<knome> bluesabre, and cyphermox has done it before (the exact same thing)
<bluesabre> not much else
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I'll leave it to him
<knome> yeah, i'm optimistic he'll get to it on monday :)
<amigamagic> the released bugfixes, are already in the repositories of the 14.04 development branch?
<amigamagic> or they should be applied manually to test them?
<amigamagic> I checked all the bugs on  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs  but I didn't find the problem of the missing icons in the indicator plugin... Should I file a bug report?
<elfy> amigamagic: I'm fairly sure that is tied in with bug 1302571
<ubottu> bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571
<amigamagic> elfy I read that, but it doesn't talk of those missing icons... But maybe it's related, I don't know
<elfy> neither do I completely
<elfy> but icons I'm not sure of - that is possibly something else
<amigamagic> to me Sound and Power Management indicators are there, so maybe it was already fixed and uploaded to the current development repositories so that all the testers could update and test?
<amigamagic> but the keyboard and power management icons missing, to me it appears as a different problem...
<starrats> I can not find xfce4-mixer in the settings editor of xfce4
<amigamagic> where it is that xfce4-indicator-plugin takes those icons? Is there some directory somewhere in which those icons are placed?
<amigamagic> in the previous xubuntu there was an indicator for disk usage too, but now, in 14.04 I cannot find it
<brainwash> amigamagic: do you have a laptop?
<brainwash> if no, then the power indicator won't show up
<elfy> starrats: we don't use that - we use pavucontrol - which is in the sound indicator
<brainwash> keyboard indicator needs to be configured via gnome/unity and is not integrated by xubuntu
<starrats> ah okay elfy thanks
<amigamagic> brainwash, for the power indicator, you are right, it should be displayed only when you are on a laptop. Actually I'm trying xubuntu 14.04 on a virtual machine that in turns is on a laptop.
<amigamagic> but its icon is missing
<amigamagic> you can see that in the property panel of the xfce4-indicator-plugin
<brainwash> because a vm is not a mobile device
<amigamagic> brainwash, as I said, that is not the problem
<amigamagic> there are two missing icons in the xfce4-indicator-plugin: keyboard and power managment
<amigamagic> you can see that if you open the properties of the plugin
<brainwash> so you are talking about missing icons in the properties window?
<amigamagic> and in place of keyboard indicator, on your panel you will have a blank square
<amigamagic> in both
<amigamagic> if its missing in the properties window its missing in the panel too
<amigamagic> try yourself and see it
<brainwash> then configure the keyboard indicator
<brainwash> we won't ship this indicator in the final release
<amigamagic> yes, I think that if something is broken, is better that it's not there until it's fixed
<amigamagic> :)
<brainwash> it is not broken
<amigamagic> I mean, its icon, of course...
<amigamagic> the indicator functionality should work... But it's very ugly to see a void space inside the panel
<brainwash> install unity-control-center and configure it
<knome> we're really really late in the cycle; there is no time to pull things out and put them back
<amigamagic> then I think you should at least "hide" that icon for the final release
<brainwash> yes, we never intended to include the keyboard indicator
<brainwash> it will be hidden
<amigamagic> and there are two date/time indicators too
<brainwash> well, not installed at all
<amigamagic> one of them should be hidden too
<brainwash> will be resolved, don't worry
<amigamagic> you know, I want to help in reporting those little details because I like very much xubuntu distro
<elfy> amigamagic: I hope you're going to be around for week 1 of Unreal Unicorn and onwards rather than week 26 :)
<elfy> then ^^ :)
<amigamagic> sorry for my ignorance, but what is Unreal Unicorn?
<elfy> because in general week last is too late for anyone to do anything 
<knome> amigamagic, helps to look at already reported bugs and blueprints that indicate they are been working on
<elfy> knome: they have been - linked it earlier 
 * elfy named 14.10 that :p
<knome> amigamagic, also helps if you can use time to actually read logs for this channel and the mailing list; many people asking the same questions just makes us use lot of time in replying, not fixing things
<knome> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ has the logs for this channel
<amigamagic> knome, I think a chat is not a forum, where you search for eons of previous logs on the web to see if someone talked of your same topic
<amigamagic> but I understand your stress
<bluesabre> basically we are pulling in a few extra packages because of dependencies... indicator-keyboard, indicator-datetime
<bluesabre> ideally, final release will not have those
<amigamagic> yes, it appears it's the case... Many of them are duplicate of plugin that xfce already had
<amigamagic> but do you know why isn't there anymore the disk usage plugin?
<amigamagic> it was useful...
<amigamagic> bluetooth plugin is duplicated too :)
<bluesabre> yeah, indicator-bluetooth as well :)
<bluesabre> not sure about the disk usage plugin
<bluesabre> we should have a fix for all of this in on Monday, so the builds on Tuesday should be in good shape
<bluesabre> I've tested the fix and none of this extra stuff will be installed as a result
<amigamagic> nice :) Can I try the fix too?
<amigamagic> I miss this plugin from the 14.04 release: "xfce4-diskperf-plugin"
<amigamagic> I mean, I think it was there in the previous versions
<amigamagic> I cannot verify now, because I have installed 14.04 everywhere... :D
<bluesabre> it's a package dependency issue... the network-manager-applet from https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/testing no longer depends on gnome-bluetooth
<bluesabre> but there are a ton of packages you'll have to remove
<bluesabre> since the dependency chain will pull in ubuntu stuff at that point
<bluesabre> for your sanity, just remove indicator-datetime indicator-bluetooth indicator-keyboard
<bluesabre> s/depends/recommends
<amigamagic> maybe the safer and faster approach could be to just hide the duplicated indicators?
<knome> amigamagic, please, you're being told; the issue is being fixed
<knome> we know what we're doing
<bluesabre> yeah, but in that case they are still running
<knome> there's no way you can help
<bluesabre> if you'd like, you're welcome to hide them on your system
<bluesabre> we'll have the fix in time for final release
<amigamagic> ok, actually I'm already hiding them
<amigamagic> :)
<amigamagic> knome: "there is no way you can help" is a very horrible phrase to say... If you don't want support from users, I wonder why this channel is public. Peace and love, ok? :)
<knome> amigamagic, please don't try to understand me wrong
<knome> amigamagic, the fix is in the way to land to the ISO
<knome> amigamagic, at this point, there is nothing you can do to help it being there faster
<knome> amigamagic, and it's not really helpful to suggest other ways to fix it
<knome> amigamagic, all help is appreciated but we're mulling over an issue that's not an issue really.
<amigamagic> knome, there was this phrase that confused me: "for your sanity, just remove indicator-datetime indicator-bluetooth indicator-keyboard", so I thought it was not completely fixed, but then I understood its meaning
<amigamagic> and in fact, after that I wrote: "ok, actually I'm already hiding them" :)
<amigamagic> a last thing: the last minute fixes will be in the repositories too, so that I can update the relative packages and get the fix me too, or I should reinstall the distro with the new updated iso?
<elfy> anything that is landed will be in the repos
<amigamagic> ok, thanks elfy
<amigamagic> another little (but annoying) bug found: if you open the task manager and you have italian language set as your current locale, if you go in the preferences of the task manager to change the displayed columns of the tasks, you will see two identical elements: PID and PID. The latter should be UID. If you select both PID, the task list too will display the two columns with the same heading text.
<amigamagic> The english locale doesn't have this bug.
<amigamagic> So, it's just a translation error.
<brainwash> amigamagic: please report bugs/errors on launchpad and/or https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
<amigamagic> thanks I will do that
<brainwash> elfy: please test xfpm from my PPA
<brainwash> elfy: and before doing this, change the action of your power button to "suspend" and press the button
<brainwash> in xfce4-power-manager-power-settings ofc
<brainwash> does this also trigger the black screen?
<elfy> nope
<elfy> all that triggers black screen here is lid close
<Logan_> knome: I'll upload the abiword fix now
<knome> Logan_, cheers
<elfy> brainwash: nor did I test the power button 
<brainwash> elfy: power button test it needed :)
<elfy> then I should have already have tested it ;)
<brainwash> it should also trigger the black screen
<elfy> sigh - long day - just set the power button on this machine to suspend ... 
<elfy> laptop is upgrading atm
<brainwash> we started to get reports about this problem just recently (~1 week)
<brainwash> not counting the report which targets xubuntu + xfce 4.11 from ppa
<brainwash> light-locker is the default lock option since 2014-03-21
<Logan_> knome: uploaded :)
<knome> maybe nobody locked their PC for three weeks
<knome> Logan_, noticed, thanks
<elfy> brainwash: so with PPA - suspend from power button works, suspend with lid close fails
<brainwash> with PPA o.o
<brainwash> did you restart xfpm before suspending?
<elfy> possibly ... 
<elfy> not ...
<Unit193> thunar crash. \o/
<brainwash> how?
<elfy> brainwash: so with PPA - suspend from power button works, suspend with lid close fails
<elfy> still
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<Unit193> in 'g_node_traverse()'
<elfy> brainwash: anything else?
<brainwash> elfy: not right now
<elfy> I thought we had this fixed previously
<amigamagic> why the option to save the session at logout is not actived as default?
<amigamagic> every time I logged out, after logging in the order in which I arranged the icons was changed
<amigamagic> and I discovered that it was because the option to save the session at the logout was not selected
<knome> amigamagic, because that confuses most people if enabled.
<amigamagic> I think it's the contrary
<ali1234> icons?
<amigamagic> I was confused because after relogging I found my icons rearranged in a different way
<ali1234> you mean desktop icons?
<amigamagic> yes
<ali1234> that's really saved in the session?
<amigamagic> yes
<ali1234> wow
<ali1234> that's dumb
<ali1234> i wonder why
<Unit193> amigamagic: That's not what that does, session save saves the open applications and stuff.
<ali1234> yeah, that's what i thought
<amigamagic> hey guys, you can try yourself, what can I say...
<ali1234> but if you turn session saving on, it makes it remember desktop icon positions?
<ali1234> no, i can believe you... there's a lot of weird stuff in the code
<amigamagic> to me it happens in this way... I don't know if it's the correct behaviour
<ali1234> that should really be stored independently to the session
<ali1234> i might look in to it
<Unit193> amigamagic: I have tried it, it does exactly what I say...
<amigamagic> anyway, if I don't click on save session on logout, my desktop icons will be rearranged in alphabetic order
<Unit193> Mind aren't all grouped, still good upon login.
<ali1234> are these "file/launcher icons"?
<ali1234> or "minimized application icons"?
<amigamagic> launcher icons (in the terminology of thunar)
<ali1234> hmm... my icons don't get rearranged on login
<ali1234> and i never save the session
<amigamagic> sorry guys... I don't know why, but now my icons are always rearranged in alphabetic order, even if I save the session on logout...
<ali1234> maybe it was a code change
<Unit193> "even if I save the session on logout..." So if it doesn't "fix" it, why do you think it fixes it?
<ali1234> xfdesktop has seen a lot of changes lately
<amigamagic> I don't know why... And if I move a desktop icon in a far place (to the far right, for example), after log out and log in, I will find the icons ordered on the left again.Ã¹
<ali1234> what happens if you open a terminal and run "killall xfdesktop"
<ali1234> it should restart just the desktop icons
<amigamagic> Unit193, I was wrong, what can I say... but the problem remains...
<amigamagic> ali1234, now I try...
 * Unit193 ponders permission problems.
<amigamagic> ok, with killall xfdesktop, the icons keep their position
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> okay i just reproduced it by killall xfdesktop
<ali1234> but only on the latest version
<amigamagic> yes I'm on 14.04
<ali1234> before i had an old git snapshot installed and it didn't forget the positions
<ali1234> so this is a recent change (past couple of weeks)
<ali1234> and a bug
<amigamagic> to you killall xfdesktop forgets the previous positions?
<ali1234> hmm... it only happened once, when i changed between the two versions
<ali1234> so perhaps the way it is stored canged
<ali1234> eric_the_idiot: any idea about this?
<ali1234> eric_the_idiot: when "upgrading" xfdesktop, icon positions are lost...
<ali1234> i can't reproduce again though
<amigamagic> ali1234, now the problem to me seems casual... Sometimes it remembers the positions, other times it doesn't remember them...
<amigamagic> Now I tried to log out and log in and the icons are at their previous positions, but I saved the session. I don't know if this is related to the saving of the session
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> i see why it happened for me
<ali1234> the two different versions of xfdesktop draw the icon grid a different size
<ali1234> if you put an icon in the bottom right with the old version it gets pushed off the screen on the new version
<ali1234> so then it resets all the positions
<amigamagic> wait... I'm on a virtual machine (vmware)... If i change the window size, the icons will be automatically rearranged and sorted
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> that must be it
<amigamagic> but if I return to the previous size (fullscreen) the icons will have again their previous positions
<ali1234> look in ~/.config/xfce4/desktop
<ali1234> it appears to store the icon positions for each screen size
<amigamagic> yes you are right!
<ali1234> see, i told you there was weird stuff :)
<amigamagic> this doesn't happen with the old xfce?
<ali1234> xfdesktop has been heavily reworked recently
<amigamagic> but I think is related to the session save
<ali1234> no, it's really not
<amigamagic> because if I logout without saving the session, after login the icons are resorted
<amigamagic> and this time I didn't change the resolution
<amigamagic> it's not completely clear to me how this works...
<ali1234> hmmmm
<knome> reproduce it with a real machine next...
<amigamagic> maybe those files in ~/.config/xfce4/desktop are created only if you save the session
<ali1234> no, because i never save the session
<amigamagic> ah, ok
<ali1234> they are created as soon as you move an icon
<ali1234> also they are updated as soon as you move an icon too
<ali1234> just watch the timestamps...
<amigamagic> ok, I want to do a last test... Let's start from 0: now i have a certain resolution and I will not change it. Good. The icons are actually rearranged and sorted on the left side, from the top.
<amigamagic> Now I will try to move "one" icon of a single position on the right.
<amigamagic> Ok, now I logout without saving the session.
<amigamagic> Ok, after relogging the moved icon is where I had left.
<amigamagic> I think on a real machine is more difficult to reproduce the problem (if there is a problem) because usually you use always the same resolution.
<ali1234> if you save session it might influence the order that programs start up, which in turn might make xfdesktop see the wrong screen size, because it subtracts panels
<ali1234> in general, session saving is just a confusing mess
<ali1234> which is why we turned it off
<Unit193> ^
<ali1234> it also has fun side effects like you accidentally close the panel, and then you can never get it back
<amigamagic> ali1234, I confirm you that it's a problem of resolution change. If I enlarge the window even of 1 pixel, the icons apparently are always where you placed them before, but after log out and log in they will be resorted.
<knome> sounds like a feature to me
<ali1234> it could perhaps be a little smarter
<ali1234> but that's wishlist, not a bug :)
<amigamagic> I don't think it's the desirable behaviour, because if I keep the icons in some way, I expect that I will find them where I placed them before...
<knome> well, there is no way to sort the icons in the "right" way if you first have a big resolution and icons all over the place, then a small resolution 
<amigamagic> knome, yes there is: you keep them where they are at the moment you log out
<ali1234> yeah, you would lose icons off the screen, that's to be avoided
<ali1234> however, it could use the same layout if the new screen is bigger than the old one
<amigamagic> ali1234, I think that it's true only for the icons on the far right
<ali1234> (if it doesn't already, and i think it does)
<amigamagic> it's desirable that those icons are moved a little on the left until they are inside the new screen resolution
<knome> ugh
<knome> no, i think the current way is sane
<amigamagic> but now xfce desktop will rearrange them and resort them whenever you change the resolution even of 1 pixel
<knome> amigamagic, stop insisting.
<knome> amigamagic, we triaged that already
<knome> if you use a virtual machine and keep changing the resolution, you'll have to accept there might be consequences to it
<knome> it's an edge case
<ali1234> it will also happen if you move panels
<ali1234> or plug in an extra monitor
<amigamagic> knome, I'm not insisting, don't take me wrong, I'm only talking with you to understand what happens now in the current implementation
<knome> ali1234, did you check if that's true?
<knome> ali1234, i'd imagine icon positions are saved per monitor?
<ali1234> no, they're not. they are saved per screen
<ali1234> the actual area is all monitors with struts subtracted
<ali1234> moving panels moves the struts, so it chanes the effective resolution that xfdesktop sees
<knome> ali1234, so is the layout kept if the resolution is bigger than previously?
<ali1234> hold on...
<ali1234> no
<amigamagic> and this is not a good thing, don't you think=
<amigamagic> ?
<ali1234> adjusting the monitor layout at all moves all icons back to screen 0 in alpha order
<ali1234> even if you only move a monitor with no icons on it
<ali1234> amigamagic: it's not great but it's better than losing icons
<amigamagic> of course :)
<brainwash> we don't even develop xfdesktop :(
<knome> i'm between wishlist/low
<ali1234> right, feel free to open a bug on the xfce bug tracker for this, but like i said, it's wishlist so don't expect it to get fixed
<knome> i would still think it's an edge case...
<amigamagic> so, if I change monitor with one with a bigger resolution, I will loose all the previous icon placement, right?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/src/xfdesktop-icon-view.c#n3301
<amigamagic> ok, good to know.
<ali1234> apparently it does try to retain the positions
<knome> apparently...
<amigamagic> from the comment in the code: "This way icons stay somewhat stable during minor resolution changes"....
<knome> is there an echo here?
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/log/src/xfdesktop-icon-view.c <- lots of changes in this code recent
<brainwash> knome: do we need to ping anyone to get the patched thunar-volman in?
<amigamagic> knome, are you mad with me? What have I done to you? Please, keep calm.
<knome> brainwash, is is prepared somewhere?
<knome> brainwash, yes, we need an ACK from the release team it's ok to land it
<ali1234> amigamagic: you have to understand, we just package the software and ship it... all the development work is done upstream
<knome> brainwash, then we need a sponsor
<brainwash> knome: yes, my branch is linked to the bug report
<knome> amigamagic, i'm not mad at you
<knome> brainwash, did i miss the bug report or didn't you paste it?
<brainwash> -bugs :)
<brainwash> bug 1210898
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<knome> thanks
<knome> right
<ali1234> amigamagic: also it's one week before release, if it isn't a serious crashing bug or something that will corrupt your HD, it isn't going to get fixed at this point
<amigamagic> Don't worry, I don't care if it is corrected before the official release (I would be very surprised if it was), I wanted only to report a "possible" bug as a feedback from an user.
<knome> amigamagic, this kind of bugs should (always) be reported on launchpad
<amigamagic> ok, I wanted to know if happened only to me, to be sure
<amigamagic> but anyway is not a critical bug
<knome> amigamagic, ubuntu-bug package_name, then report the issue; after that, can ask if somebody can confirm the bug
<ali1234> there is a wishlist bug for "icon settings per monitor"
<knome> ali1234, ++ for that :)
<ali1234> also lots of bugs involving icons getting lost behind panels (which i presume are now fixed)
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9774
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9774 in General "Separate icons settings for different screens" [Normal,New]
<knome> brainwash, asking for an ACK at -release
<ali1234> amigamagic: don't worry about posting invalid or dupe bugs on launchpad - it's much easier for us to deal with them that way anyway
<amigamagic> ok, I will do that, thanks :)
<ali1234> as long as you post a good report that we can try to reproduce someone should look at it
<amigamagic> I will try to make an easlily reproducible test
<amigamagic> and sorry for my english, I'm not a native english speaker
<ali1234> you might as well post this one straight on bugzilla.xfce.org
<ali1234> you can post it on both if you want, if you do, please link the bug reports
<amigamagic> one each of them I place the link of the other bug report?
<ali1234> on launchpad you click "also affects project" and then paste the link to the xfce bug
<ali1234> you can't link it the other way
<amigamagic> so I will file the report first on bugzilla.xfce.org
<ali1234> sure. make sure to get the right component- xfdesktop
<ali1234> er, product
<amigamagic> ok
<brainwash> time to apt-get update and install the patched abiword
<brainwash> so, now only the back screen problem remains
<knome> back screen? turn your monitor!
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> black I mean
<knome> i know, i'm just kidding
<brainwash> maybe I should upgrade my laptop to 14.04, because I cannot reproduce it with 13.10 (same test scenario)
<knome> maybe
<knome> it's pretty safe at this point
<knome> or, at least not that much more dangerous than after thu...
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> pretty nice looking graph...
<brainwash> colorful
<brainwash> hopefully people will enjoy the new release
<amigamagic> I love it already
<knome> brainwash, we have an ACK
<brainwash> wow, so we just need to change the priority to 'high' and can land everything we want? :P
<knome> no...
<knome> i discussed it with slangasek in -release
<brainwash> thanks, I did not bother to join channel =S
<brainwash> kinda sleepy already
<knome> what was your timezone again?
<knome> Logan_, hey.. you around? :)
<Logan_> kinda busy :P
<knome> Logan_, we got an ACK for bug 1210898, the fix is in a branch with a merge request. do you think you could get to that sometime soonish?
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Removable drives and media not automatically mounted/listed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<olbi> http://hexchat.github.io/ - an IRC client based on XChat, but unlike XChat itâs completely free for both Windows and Unix-like systems :D
<amigamagic> I have a problem with bugzilla...
<amigamagic> the latest version of xfdesktop that I can choose is 4.10.0
<amigamagic> but in xubuntu there is a more recent version
<amigamagic> in xubuntu 14.04 the version of xfdesktop is 4.11.6-1ubuntu1
<amigamagic> how should I file the bug report in bugzilla.xfce.org site? I can choose "unspecified" too in the version list box
<amigamagic> for now I will file the report in the 4.10.0 branch...
<amigamagic> I don't see alternatives
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-06
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/commit/?id=26f9ae8df629f02af0773df2ed82db6b85c5b556
<slickymaster> Unit193, did you forget to add the next meeting to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymaster> ?
<Unit193> slickymaster: Of course I did. :D
<Unit193> I'll never let me login, will it?
<elfy> Unit193: the world is against you 
 * genii aligns himself with Unit193 against the world
<elfy> genii should login to the wiki for Unit193 if he really cares :p
<Unit193> I got it I got it. :P
<nerdistmonk> Well i tested how robust xubuntu was yesterday....LOL
<nerdistmonk> made a massive whoopsie yesterday on another machine
<nerdistmonk> Long story short, i can say with confidence that xubuntu's update/upgrade system is rock solid....
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: I think you've mistaken this for -offtopic?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and yes fixed that.  Sorry.
<nerdistmonk> erm, sorry i forgot robots hate socialization? ill be gone then.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-07
<ochosi> morning folks
<brainwash> ali12341: do you know something about transmission and it's indicator menu? bug 1440992
<ubottu> bug 1440992 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "transmisson menu wording error in Xubuntu session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440992
<ali12341> done
<brainwash> ali12341: thanks
<brainwash> elfy: is bug 1437180 still present? no one else has confirmed it yet in the report
<ubottu> bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180
<ochosi> not sure but i thought bluesabre mentioned the same thing too
<ochosi> if someone confirms it we should add it to the bugs blueprint
<brainwash> it's already linked to the blueprint
<brainwash> but there is no progress
<ochosi> i'm unsure what we can do about it and why it didn't happen in the first place, i.e. when xfdesktop was added to our ubiquity session to draw the wallpaper
<ochosi> the most straight-forward solution would be to replace xfdesktop with feh
<ochosi> bluesabre: thoughts on this? ^
<brainwash> ideally yes
<brainwash> Unit193 has tested ubiquity with xfdesktop, so he should have noticed the icons I'd guess
<brainwash> or maybe "it's not a bug, it's a feature" :)
<bluesabre> xfdesktop wasn't recently added to ubiquity to draw the wallpaper, we've used it for years
<bluesabre> the black background was due to it becoming a zombie process as I recall
<bluesabre> and a newer xfdesktop release gave us desktop icons
<bluesabre> I'd say its a bug, albeit minor, and I would not be opposed to switching to feh to draw the ubiquity background in 15.10, since that desktop doesn't do anything else
<brainwash> bluesabre: is there some config file for xfdesktop when run in live mode? or are any parameters passed?
<brainwash> I assume that the right click context menu works also
<bluesabre> I'm not sure
<brainwash> so, switching to feh would be the best option
<bluesabre> I just know that we changed nothing except a new xfdesktop and started seeing icons
<elfy> question re feh, currently if you start install and quit - the live media boots to the livesession - that going to get affected?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'd also say it's minor and prolly too late to switch to feh now
<ochosi> but yeah, everything else (context menus) works with xfdesktop in the live session
<ochosi> which means ppl can basically run any programme they want or even use multiple workspaces...
<ochosi> so apart from the panel, there's little diff between the install only and the live session atm
<elfy> which begs the question why do it then? 
<elfy> and also begs the other 'why test installs from install and not try' question too :)
<elfy> ochosi: btw - 2 different names for the QA incentive this time :)
<elfy> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dcx6FX9I7uS5lTUPUlldQkexpGN8syNeunDVrsVnRRk/edit?pli=1#gid=498196131
<knome> woot :)
<elfy> yep, I was pleased too ;)
<bluesabre> nice
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> elfy: the live session won't be affected, it would only be the ubiquity installer session that would use feh, live desktop would be normal
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> bluesabre: you misunderstand slightly, start livemedia, accidentally hit install
<elfy> quit - you get to the livesession
<elfy> with feh and not xfdesktop - what happens in that scenario? 
<ochosi> elfy: that looks great! (re: qa incentive)
<ochosi> we should definitely blog a roundup of this
<ochosi> that will hopefully further motivate people
<bluesabre> if I recall, the installer is its own session, so when you quit that, all open apps are closed, then the desktop session is started, so feh is closed and xfdesktop is started
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - thanks :)
<elfy> ochosi: yea - was contemplating doing so *just* before RC/Final Release - hoping to drag a few extras in then
<ochosi> good idea
<elfy> I have them sometimes 
<ochosi> :)P
 * bluesabre wishes he had them more often
<elfy> I'd share mine bluesabre - but it's 2015 and I've only had one since 1999 
<elfy> luckily my 3 kids never read this oldfashioned irc stuff :p
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: you back at work or still on easter break?
<bluesabre> easter break for me was saturday/sunday :)
<ochosi> oh right :)
<bluesabre> sorry Unit193, won't be able to make it to your meeting, but feel free to leave pings for me on anything that needs uploaded
<bluesabre> I'll be doing a greeter-settings translations release/upload today, and maybe one for x-d-s if the workaround for the greeter white-screen works
<ochosi> great!
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> brainwash, elfy: just confirmed the xfdesktop icon bug in today's daily build and also noted that in the bugreport
<ochosi> brainwash: since you've been poking xfdesktop a bit lately, any clue why the icons started appearing? my best guess so far is that our default settings weren't loaded correctly or at all before
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i added an idea for a workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1437180 (it's not pretty, but sorta okayish for 15.04)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> ochosi: did you look at the incentive spreadsheet for the names - if so happy for me to announce them tonight ?
<elfy> if you didn't can you - or trust me lol 
<ochosi> i did and i am! :)
<elfy> you can't - QA team #info :D
<ochosi> wasn't aware that you wanted/needed an ack (yeah, i do trust you ;))
<elfy> well - as xpl I guess you should do one or the other :p
<ochosi> yeah, since i've become xpl my feelings have turned binary. i either feel one thing or the other :)
<knome> ochosi, no kidding.. :P
<elfy> ha ha 
<ochosi> well either kidding or no kidding. there's no "kidding you a little" for me
 * knome slips a whoopee cushion on ochosi's bench
<ochosi> thanks, i've wanted one of those for ages!
<knome> haha :)
 * elfy removes the tacks from the cushion
<elfy> bad knome 
<knome> i don't put tacks on whoopee cushions :P
<knome> there are problems with them though
<knome> the small ones give a pathetic sound
<elfy> :)
<elfy> yea for sure 
<knome> and the large ones are impossible to hide...
<knome> slickymaster, FYI, we have some strings landing at some point soon for the slideshow once the template from jacks changes propagates back after an upload
<Unit193> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 20:00:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Unit193> #chair knome
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 knome
<Unit193> Howdy everyone.
<elfy> evening 
<Unit193> welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Unit193> Anyone else around?  If not, this'll be nice and short.
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<elfy> who knows
<Unit193> elfy: Did we tie up everything for xubuntu-core testing?
<elfy> afaik
<Unit193> Great, same here.  I didn't see anything else needing testing.
<Unit193> #done Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<Unit193> #done elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<Unit193> knome: Did you talk to ochosi about setting up a team vote?
 * ochosi doesn't recall being talked to
 * Unit193 gives ochosi a stern talking to.
<ochosi> but it couldn have happened a longer time ago so maybe i don't remember
<Unit193> Alright, we'll carry forward...
<ochosi> team vote about what?
<Unit193> "ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion"
<Unit193> That's what I see.
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<ochosi> but no topic
<Unit193> That's all I know.
<ochosi> awesome :)
<elfy> another one of those carried forward ad infinitum that we've all forgotten the topic off now? 
<ochosi> i guess i'll just "allow more time for discussion" :D
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<Unit193> #nick knome
<Unit193> #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<Unit193> #topic Team updates
<Unit193> Free for all, any updatese?
<elfy> perhaps there should be a #action make the agenda make sense ... 
<slickymaster> sorry for being late guys, but it's dinner time over here and the little doesn't make any compromises
<ochosi> #info ochosi pushed some fixes to Greybird, but likely too minor for 15.04
<elfy> #info testing for b2 went ok, bugs about - more global than us
<elfy> #info figures in for QA incentive 
<ochosi> #info ochosi prepared a (hacky) patch for ubiquity-dm to hide the desktop icons in bug #1437180
<ubottu> bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180
<Unit193> #info exo and thunar fixes uploaded to vivid.
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah good.
<elfy> #info March sticker pack winner is PaulW2U 
<elfy> #info Final Beta sticker pack winner is saqman2060
<elfy> #action elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both
<ochosi> if any of you wanna chime in about the ubiquity-dm fix, feel free to get in touch
<elfy> ?
<slickymaster> I had some #info items, but I don't know now where I placed them :P
<ochosi> elfy: well i dunno, if you have an opinion on it etc
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> the icon issue? 
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> I only really had one thing to find out - and bluesabre put my mind at rest
<ochosi> the question (partly) is: is the situation bad enough that we want a hacky fix pushed that we'll have to revert in 15.10
<Unit193> We could move this to discussions. :P
<micahg> is there a bug in xfdesktop?
<elfy> I would agree they look a bit daft - but maybe better to leave well alone over the next 3 weeks
<knome> i'm here.
<ochosi> Unit193: agreed, let's discuss it a bit later (also re: micahg :) )
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<Unit193> ochosi: Want a subtopic right now?
<pleia2> elfy: thanks, happy to ship off the stickers this week
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, let's do that
<Unit193> #subtopic Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop
<Unit193> ochosi: Have at it.
<elfy> pleia2: cool - I'll mail them as QA and cc you in as we did last time
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> ok, so the problem is quite easily explained, we use xfdesktop to draw the wallpaper in our ubiquity install-only session
<ochosi> in 15.10 we'll likely switch to feh for drawing the wallpaper
<ochosi> just makes more sense, xfdesktop has far too many features and all we really want is a wallpaper below ubiquity
<ochosi> so the diff i attached on the bugreport basically switches the icons on the desktop setting off via an xfconf-query call
<ochosi> it's really not a pretty solution
<ochosi> but it'll do the trick
<ochosi> micahg: thoughts? ^
<micahg> if that's the best option and only affects us, I think that's fine
<ochosi> tbh i don't know about "best"
<ochosi> but the release date is closing in on us, and we might want a fix
<Unit193> micahg: By default, it'll affect Studio too.  Myth doesn't release except for LTSes though.
<ochosi> yeah, that's true
<Unit193> Generally speaking, studio is less concerned with the desktop, and more interested in a/v.
<micahg> looks relatively harmless
<ochosi> yeah, i tested the xfconf command in a ubiquity live session
<ochosi> actually there's even a second setting i would change, but i don't want to add another 6 lines for almost nothing
<ochosi> (disable the right-click menu on the desktop, which allows launching of any other app)
<Unit193> Racy?
<ochosi> well, possibly
<ochosi> you mean in case xfsettingsd hasnt started yet?
<ochosi> dunno whether these commands are called synchronously or async
<ochosi> generally speaking, calling xfsettingsd and then xfdesktop could also be considered racy
<ochosi> brb
<Unit193> Alright, well either way bluesabre isn't here, so.
<micahg> let's keep an eye on timing, final freeze is next week
<Unit193> #action ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons.
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons.
<Unit193> Any other remarks on this topic?
<elfy> not from me
<micahg> the trick with patching ubiquity is if there's a problem later, it's much harder to change
<Unit193> Indeed.
<micahg> just FYI
<Unit193> #subtopic GIMP in the default seed (mailing list discussion)
<micahg> ooh, idr seeing that
<Unit193> knome: ^
<knome> nnniiiice.
<knome> well, it's the mailing list discussion.
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010560.html
<knome> i don't think there is a conclusion
<micahg> oh, was a while ago
<elfy> yea - these have been dragging their heels, mostly because 15.10
<ochosi> back
<knome> the gimp discussion wasn't also very long
<Unit193> Same discussion every time, it's overkill, but there's no good simple editors.
<knome> i think the thing that we know now (again) is that there isn't really a suitable replacement, because there really isn't
<knome> yep
<dkessel> Is pinta an option?
<Unit193> No.
<knome> so maybe the question is: does the still want to stick with GIMP?
<knome> *the team
<knome> or is it a valid option to drop it
<Unit193> dkessel: There were a couple reasons, but mono is the biggest one.
<micahg> pinta will pull in mono
<ochosi> knome: what would be your main argument for dropping it?
<Unit193> micahg: o/\o
<dkessel> ok
<knome> ochosi, it's huge, it's much more than a regular user needs
<slickymaster> what about MyPaint?
<knome> i don't think it has ever specifically contributed to the "xubuntu experience", we've been shipping it because some users and team members like it shipped 
 * Unit193 
<micahg> Description-en: paint program for use with graphics tablets
<micahg> ?
<Unit193> http://mypaint.info/
<knome> micahg, that's misleading, but it's not like gimp, it's a drawing app more than an image editor
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193 
<ochosi> yeah, the gimp does both
<Unit193> The pictures are scaring me.
<knome> micahg, and it is better with graphic tablets.
<Unit193> So, seems to be something we're not looking at.
<ochosi> so we'd have to first think what aspect of gimp we'd like to replace with *something*
<micahg> yes
 * knome facepalms
<knome> that discussion has come and gone
<ochosi> yeah :)
<knome> you can refer to the old comparison in the wiki
<Unit193> Yes,and ristretto still hasn't learned how to resize. :P
<ochosi> it probably would make sense to do one of those
<knome> the fact is that there is no suitable app that does it
<knome> it being the features we want to replace in gimp
<Unit193> So while it's overkill, it does what we need and can't find something else to do it.
<knome> but instead of shipping the huge gimp because there isn't an alternative, and kind of giving up, why don't we drop it?
<micahg> xpaint seems to have the same "features" in th wiki
<ochosi> we could also switch back to shipping gthumb and drop ristretto and gimp
<genii> Too bad theres no gimp-minimal
<Unit193> Meh, always thought gthumb was useless.
<knome> micahg, no version update since precise
<micahg> isn't it a little late in the cycle to be updating seeds?
<knome> yeah, let's not reintroduce gthumb
<Unit193> micahg: For wombat.
<micahg> ah
<Unit193> I'd like to table this so we can move on to the next disucssion that's neverending. :P
<knome> ochosi, we can write a small script set that allowed the user to handle their images from thunar
<knome> ochosi, just link that to a custom action for all images.
<knome> resize, rotate, you name it
<ochosi> you mean via imagemagick?
<knome> yep.
<knome> those who need more complex tools can install one from the repositories
<dkessel> +1
<ochosi> we can also try to add those features to ristretto at some point
<knome> imagemagick can even write text
<knome> so you can do a lolcat generator
<ochosi> ouch
<micahg> what about shutter?
<knome> well i mean, wasn't that one of our prerequisites for the iamge editor...
<knome> micahg, the right place to do proposals for apps is the mailing list thread
<knome> i don't think it's a good use of everybody's time to mull over those in a meeting
<Unit193> We're discussing it now. :P
<ochosi> isn't that a screenshot tool?
<micahg> yes, but it does have a nice editor in it
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i didn't know about that
<micahg> 2 for 1 :)
<knome> we have the xfce screenshooter..
<Unit193> Description does seem very screenshooter centric.
<knome> Unit193, and their website is awful without js..
<dkessel> Doesn't look like it can open existing files, or can it?
<micahg> yes, it can
<ochosi> generally speaking, i don't mind dropping one of our apps for 15.10, also in terms of getting user feedback (i know, the vocal minority and all, but better than no feedback)
<knome> set up a team vote and get on with it.
<knome> :
<knome> :)
<ochosi> we can do one now if you guys and gals agree that that's a good idea :)
<ochosi> it's sorta funky timing with 15.04 not even released, but whatever
<elfy> it'll get some votes done, rest of team can vote on m/l 
 * slickymaster agrees with elfy 
<knome> wfm
<knome> Unit193, shall you set the poll up?
<Unit193> #vote Drop The GIMP from the default seed
<meetingology> Please vote on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> does +1 mean drop?
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<knome> just making sure.
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<micahg> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg
<elfy> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from elfy
<ochosi> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
<Unit193> slickymaster
<knome> elfy, ochosi: does "+0" mean that you don't mind if it's in the seed or not? and if yes, wouldn't it mean it's better not to be on the seed since it can save space and hassle?
<knome> not trying to impact your opinion, just asking.
<slickymaster> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from slickymaster
<Unit193> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
<knome> slickymaster, ^ same question to you
<elfy> I've no opinion on it - hence sitting on the fence
<slickymaster> exactly what you said knome, I don't mind if it's on the seed or not.
<Unit193> So, ochosi to carry over to the mailing list?
<ochosi> allllright
<knome> slickymaster, what about the second question?
<Unit193> #action ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list.
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list.
 * slickymaster lost that one
<slickymaster> what was it again knome?
<ochosi> knome: it can save space, not sure it'll really save us hassle. so far i don't remember any really critical bugreport related to gimp for us
<ochosi> but yeah, i'm open to dropping it
<elfy> moving on perhaps 
<knome> slickymaster, that if you don't care, wouldn't it pragmatically be better to drop it since it would save space and potential hassle
<ochosi> not convinced, but ok with it
<Unit193> #subtopic Default office applications (mailing list discussion)
<Unit193> elfy: Please, yes.
<ochosi> oh man, and another one...
<knome> but yeah, no need to stretch the discussion...
<slickymaster> tbh I usualy uninistall it knome 
<elfy> we've had the discussions haven't we? 
<Unit193> Yeah, so LO is much bigger, but more compatible.
<Unit193> elfy: Not in meeting.
<knome> elfy, yes, on the mailing list
<elfy> I'm putting the kettle on ... 
<ochosi> elfy: make some for me too
<Unit193> Right, so it's been discussed.  Anyone ready to make a motion as to voting?
<ochosi> but the vote would be to just drop abiword/gnumeric or replace them with LO?
<Unit193> ochosi: Exactly, hence why I didn't just make one.
<ochosi> knome: ?
<knome> ochosi, i imagine two polls.
<Unit193> There's also online docs which people use, so dropping is an option.
<knome> ochosi, 1) frop abiword/gnumeric or not?
<knome> *drop
<knome> ochosi, if 1) yes, 2) install LO?
<elfy> yes - but vote 2 could depend on vote 1
<ochosi> k, i'd be fine with two
<knome> elfy, yep.
<Unit193> #vote drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
<meetingology> Please vote on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<knome> and to make sure, +1 is DROP, -1 is NO DROP
<slickymaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
<knome> blah.
<ochosi> knome: yeah yeah ;)
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<knome> ochosi, for the log readers and all.
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<Unit193> Think that's everyone now.
<ochosi> yup
<Unit193> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:2 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Unit193> Right, anyone wanting to carry that to the list? knome?
<elfy> and the next one is to have calc and writer only? 
<knome> nnooo
<slickymaster> lol
<ochosi> knome: sure you do ;)
<knome> ochosi can do that in the same email
<Unit193> #vote Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
<meetingology> Please vote on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<micahg> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg
<knome> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from knome
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<slickymaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
<ochosi> knome: no, that would be too confusing
<knome> ochosi, :P
<knome> ochosi, i'll do it then... but in a way, this vote makes no sense until the vote on the ML has ended
<Unit193> ochosi: Votre, man!
<ochosi> oui!
<knome> because if most people want to keep abiword/gnumeric, we aren't installing LO..
<ochosi> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
<Unit193> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:3 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<knome> ochosi, hah :P
<slickymaster> so, no LO, no abiword and gnumeric
<Unit193> #action ochosi to follow up the office discussion on the ML.
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up the office discussion on the ML.
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> yeah, based on this portion of the team
<knome> oopsie. now ochosi has to do it
<ochosi> Unit193: maaaan
<Unit193> #subtopic Default game change (mailing list discussion)
<knome> woohoo!
<micahg> hrm, I really think it needs to be one vote, unless we're looking to not have a replacement (or there are other alternatives besides LO(
<elfy> and this one - I assume we're talking about sgt ? 
<Unit193> micahg: Well, technically online docs or the KDE one.
<Unit193> elfy: It's whatever you put on there. :D
<knome> i would vote for the sgt-puzzles on ONE CONDITION
<elfy> Unit193: I didn't ... 
<Unit193> It doesn't look so ugly?
<knome> that somebody (bluesabre) makes a game selector app for it
<knome> and that it only appears as one menu item, not bazillion
<knome> currently it's too obtrusive.
<elfy> I'd not say that 
<knome> ...in my opinion
<knome> :P
<elfy> unless you happen to have bunches of games installed :)
<elfy> then I'd agree with you 
<knome> i have a few to tenish depending on the machine
<knome> the sheer amount of games is baffling.
<knome> i wouldn't say it would be best to split them to separate packages...
<knome> ...but i'd like that personally. i only fancy less than 10 of them anyway
<elfy> shall we shelve this and see what bluesabre's opinion on that possibility is first? 
<ochosi> fwiw, i'll put the office vote-stuff in one email since the votes are directly related
<knome> ochosi, yep.
<knome> elfy, he's said it's possible, i wouldn't have brought it up otherwise :)
<Unit193> elfy: Yes, was thinking the same.
<elfy> knome: I assumed but that gets tricky in months time ;)
<knome> elfy, because?
<elfy> because then I find that what I assumed isn't the case ;)
<knome> heh
<Unit193> knome: How would you like to carry it on?  Re: meetingology?
<knome> we can surely get an official response from sean to this
<elfy> and it'spossible isn't the same as it's possible and I've got time 
<knome> i guess: what do other people feel about sgt-puxxles?
<knome> s/xx/zz/
<elfy> s'ok 
<knome> is it worth even investigating to creating a game selector
<slickymaster> I don't know it, but I honestly don't pay attention to games
<elfy> I just think that 'games' in our install is stale - all we seem to have done is remove a couple and leave it
<knome> briefly, it's a collection of dozens of small puzzle games
<knome> that are a great short distraction
<knome> not something you'd play for hours
<Unit193> So, I'm hearing a "Why bother?" "I don't really care." and "They are a short distraction."
<slickymaster> the way I see the discussion about the games is that everyone always use the argument that people paly them while installing the iso
<knome> Unit193, i was trying to give a brief description for them. i'm all +1 if we can get the number of menu items down.
<elfy> and I'm +1 for ringing the changes 
<Unit193> knome: Right, yours seems to reflect that.
<micahg> needs to use exo-open or xdg-open
<micahg> with that change, I'd be ok including it
<knome> on the other hand, if we decided to ship no games, i would be completely fine with that too
<elfy> mmm
<Unit193> Alright, so lets carry this forward to when bluesabre is here, alright?
<knome> so to be crystal clear...
<elfy> then if we go that way and no abiword/gnumeric or replacement - just work with core 
<knome> i'm "+0" on "ship games or not ship games", but if we are shipping, then i'm "+1 sgt-puzzles if they have a single launcher"
<Unit193> Good to know.
<knome> elfy, but ff/tb/etc
<Unit193> elfy: There's still afew things.
<elfy> Unit193: I'm good with getting bluesabre's input before deciding 
<elfy> Unit193: yea :)
<elfy> knome: ^^
<knome> #action knome to be in touch with bluesabre on sgt-puzzles launcher
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with bluesabre on sgt-puzzles launcher
<knome> move on.
<Unit193> Great.
<Unit193> #subtopic March/Beta 2 Incentive winners
<elfy> again ...
<elfy> I info'd that 
<elfy> and I've mailed them both already
<Unit193> Yep, it was there, wasn't sure if there's anything else to discuss.
<Unit193> Alright, so we're moving on then.
<elfy> I do have a point
<elfy> however ... 
<Unit193> Ah, great.
<elfy> all the time we've been discussing this I've been - shouldn't include team
<elfy> but as I do the figures every month I feel rather sorry for jjfrv8 ;)
<elfy> who tests like a ninja
<ochosi> we could give him an honorary sticker?
<elfy> or do a whole cycle for team winner set 
<elfy> excluding me though
<ochosi> right, i'd be fine with either
<ochosi> personally, i dont think we have to make a rule up for everything
<elfy> ok - I'll check with pleia2 to make sure we've got enough - pretty sure we do
<Unit193> Action? :D
<elfy> unless anyone has an issue with that ofc
<knome> practically, we will run out of non-team testers who haven't won soon anyway...
 * knome hides
<slickymaster> bad knome 
<knome> baaa-aa-aaaa!
<elfy> knome: I'm only too aware of how few people we have testing that tell us :(
<elfy> Unit193: if nothing else - point made :)
<Unit193> elfy: Ta.
<ochosi> i'm actually more optimistic after seeing the numbers
<Unit193> #topic Announcements
<elfy> final freeze next week 
<knome> the numbers aren't too bad.
<elfy> and RC testing
<elfy> if they do that
<Unit193> #info 9th Non-Language Pack Translation Deadline
<elfy> if not Final Release testing the following week
<slickymaster> next thursday that one Unit193 
<Unit193> #info 16th Final Freeze
<knome> slickymaster, "9th"
<Unit193> slickymaster: Calendar seems to think 9th.
<elfy> slickymaster: not according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<Unit193> #info 26th Xubuntu 12.04 EOL
<Unit193> Any others? micahg ?
<slickymaster> btw knome, did you saw isn't next thursday the 9th?!
<slickymaster> lol
<elfy> oh yea - we going to do an announce on blog for 12.04 ? 
<slickymaster> isn't next thursday the 9th?!
<micahg> Unit193: you mean 10.04 EOL?
<micahg> oh, no, that's right
<Unit193> micahg: Xubuntu went for 3.
<knome> micahg, no, xubuntu 12.04 has only 3 years support..
<Unit193> Hah, oh well. D:
<knome> slickymaster, Unit193 is right.
<knome> #info 16th LanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<Unit193> #topic anything else?
<Unit193> Schedule next meeting
<knome> who's in turn order :P
<elfy> slickymaster next
<Unit193> Great, slickymaster has to schedule it, and all that jazz! :D
<slickymaster> I'll do that later
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  7 21:20:58 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-04-07-20.00.moin.txt
<slickymaster> not sure of my schedule for the coming days
<elfy> thanks Unit193 for your impeccable hanging about to run it for us :)
<slickymaster> ditto
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193 
<ochosi> +1
<Unit193> Sure.
<ochosi> k, mails sent
<elfy> thanks 
<Unit193> Great, danke.
 * knome bows
<Unit193> micahg: Thanks for turning up, always nice to have you.
<knome> Unit193, "...as lunch"?
<knome> om nom nom nom nom
<micahg> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> He knows processes real well, very handy.
<Unit193> == PART2 (only if PART1 is carried) ==  you mean, don't ship bother LO and GNOME office? :(
<knome> Unit193, ship lo, oo, gnome office and m$ word.
<ochosi> we'll ship all of that for 16.04 ;)
<elfy> I'll hang about a bit longer then 
<Unit193> knome: calligra too!
<elfy> oh
<elfy> can we swap gmb for clementine now then
<knome> Unit193, and openttd.
<Unit193> Sure, no problem.  Ship nightingale too.
<knome> elfy, no, but we can ship them both.
<Unit193> xubuntu-full!
<knome> xubuntu-favorite-media-players
<ochosi> and vlc!
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> eg. every media player on the repositories
 * elfy bets a cuppa he's tried them already
<knome> lol
<knome> just a cuppa... no gamble there
<elfy> ok  .... 
<drc> cuppa of 20 year old scotch
 * elfy bets the first cuppa of the day he's tried them already
<knome> :D
<knome> elfy, doesn't the second one become the first then? :(
<elfy> too confusing by half
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-gimpy
<knome> fancy. Unit193 uses pad
<Unit193> Only because I'm already logged in, won't touch it again though.
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so you started it - but won't get to the end? 
<Unit193> Nope, Ubuntu login will anger me and disallow me to login.
<bluesabre> gooooooooooooood evening!
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bluesabre: !!!
<elfy> we pinged you loads :p
<bluesabre> thunderstorming here, so likelyhood of having internet long is low
<bluesabre> saw all the pings
<bluesabre> where to start... :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: your proposed xfdesktop patch will leave us with no icons on the desktop if ubiquity fails or is cancelled
<bluesabre> since it sets the xfconf settings
<bluesabre> making a launcher should be fairly simple, may need some artwork drawn, or a mockup of what we want
<bluesabre> we might be able to take it further and embed the game windows, maybe
<bluesabre> but a launcher is easier and faster
<knome> bluesabre, just a dropdown or selection list would suffice.
<bluesabre> knome: how many games are in the package?
<knome> artwork? i guess you can use the game icons if you want to be fancy :)
<knome> bluesabre, like 20-30
<bluesabre> yeah, I was thinking of a nice icon or card-style launcher
<knome> bluesabre, and it's possible that it grows, so the solution needs to take that into account
<bluesabre> k, good to know
<elfy> bluesabre: on a 1920x1080 monitor - expanding whisker to top - just about grabs them all 
<bluesabre> yikes
<elfy> yep - yikes
<bluesabre> I might start hacking something together for that this week
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> maybe even a more generic xfce games launcher like settings manager
<elfy> so entirely possible and something that we could get voted on next time then 
<bluesabre> yeah, definitely doable
<ochosi> bluesabre: if ubiquity fails? but yeah, i mean that's the same that would happen with feh... and we still have a right-click menu on the desktop
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> with feh, the normal session is start
<bluesabre> with xfdesktop, the normal session is started
<ochosi> ?
<bluesabre> the difference is that xfconf holds the persistent setting that we apply
<knome> bluesabre, start with one for sgt-puzzles, and consider the work you need to do to add it in the package too :P
<ochosi> yeah, but only in the ubiquity-dm-only sessio
<ochosi> n
<bluesabre> xfconf settings are per-user, does the ubiquity session use a different user?
<ochosi> hm, let me quickly test that
<elfy> can I just ask a question here, why do we actually have the extra screen at all? 
<ochosi> well, it's already there, i don't think we can do anything about it
<elfy> lubuntu doesn't have it 
<ochosi> it doesn't?
<elfy> not that I remember 
<bluesabre> extra screen as in Install/Live ?
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> I'll shut up now till I double check that
<ochosi> i guess the installer session only makes sense if it uses significantly less memory
<elfy> can't check lubuntu fails with that horrid pwconv /etc/passwd 0600 issue atm 
<ochosi> 243MiB for the installer
<pleia2> elfy: we have plenty of stickers, just tell me where to send them and happy to
<elfy> pleia2: okey doke :)
<pleia2> elfy: also, at the end of the cycle I think maybe a blog post that lists all the winners and thanks them again
<pleia2> since we haven't done a great job of celebrating them on social media (my fault)
<elfy> pleia2: that sounds useful for sure
<elfy> and next week or so will do a reminder of it pre-final testing, so when that comes up - social mediaing it would be good :)
<elfy> and with that - the day's done for me :)
<elfy> night all
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap yeah, so it's persistent :/
<pleia2> elfy: yep, just ping me, I'm traveling again next week so will need poking :)
 * bluesabre is delighted and saddened that he is right at the same time
<ochosi> so installer (243MiB) vs. live (297MiB)
<ochosi> elfy: ^
<ochosi> actually the xfce session itself is really light (~215MiB), ubiquity is a huge memory hog
<Unit193> ochosi: Helps more for Unity.
<ochosi> yeah ofc
<ochosi> bluesabre: i pushed some tiny fixes/improvements to parole today btw
<bluesabre> ochosi: I saw, nice work :)
<ochosi> oh, and i updated the parole docs
<ochosi> added that hidden setting there
<ochosi> (the timeout for hiding the controls)
<Subsentient> ochosi: you're an XFCE dev then?
<ochosi> yup
<Subsentient> ochosi: On the topic of parole, I can't get it to link against gtk2.
<Subsentient> I'm using 0.5.x as a result
<ochosi> yeah, we dropped gtk2 support after 0.5
<Subsentient> Damn
<ochosi> so that's very much expected
<Subsentient> Couldn't just keep both available?
<ochosi> nope
<Subsentient> I suppose I can kinda see why that might be, but it's unfortunate nonetheless.
<micahg> I don't know if we'll get rid of GTK2 for 16.04, hopeful for 18.04
<Subsentient> It's a shame. I liked gtk2.
<micahg> yes, but it's not really supported anymore
<micahg> (by GNOME)
<Subsentient> I know.
<Subsentient> It's still good code. I'll miss it. GTK 3 is alright, but I'd still rather have gtk 2. :^)
<Subsentient> ochosi: Oh, BTW, I should probably put it on the tracker but I'm lazier than a slot stuck in tar, so I wanted to just ask if the devs were aware of clicking "arrange icons" usually placing some of them offscreen on 4.12
<Subsentient> sloth*
<ochosi> i think there are some fixes for that already
<Subsentient> Yeh I compiled 4.12 the day after it came out. :^D
<Subsentient> The new power manager is pretty nice
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> Subsentient, i very much encourage you to report bugs and test results. it helps us as lot.
<Unit193> Subsentient: Whatcha doin' with aqu4?
<Subsentient> Unit193: I just like keeping her around in channels I frequent for logging and utility purposes. She won't bother anyone.
<Unit193> !1984
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too.
<knome> Subsentient, may i ask you, what might the utility purpose be? and, are the logs private only, or can somebody else get access to them as well?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-08
<Subsentient> knome: Oh sorry was afk
<Subsentient> knome: The logs are private but are accessible from the outside to those with the password -- just me and close friends.
<Subsentient> Utility involves:
<Subsentient> $help tell
<aqu4> [$tell <required_arg(s)>]: Used to tell someone a message the next time they enter a channel or speak.
<Subsentient> $help sticky
<aqu4> [$sticky <required_arg(s)>]: Used to save a sticky note. sticky save saves it, sticky save_private saves a private sticky, sticky read <number> reads it, sticky delete <number> deletes it, but only if it's your sticky. For admins, sticky reset deletes all stickies. sticky list lists the names of the owners and times of creation for all stickies, and sticky search returns a list of sticky IDs that match your search.
<Subsentient> do /msg aqu4 commands to see the rest.
<knome> Subsentient, ok, in that case, could you please remove the bot from the channel
<Subsentient> knome: As you wish.
<Subsentient> $part
<aqu4> Assuming you mean this channel.
<knome> Subsentient, yes; thanks, and thanks for understanding :)
<nerdistmonk> yes we can only one george orwellian overlord at a time in here
<Subsentient> knome: I like to bring it along with me :^)
<knome> i like ubottu <3
<nerdistmonk> You thought you could bring your own creation into an open source operating system chatroom full of developers?....muahaha...well erm.. actually no, no you can't.
<Subsentient> knome: Oh, if you're interested: http://github.com/Subsentient/aqu4bot
<knome> Subsentient, i briefly peeked there already O;)
<Subsentient> knome: hah, clever girl.
<knome> Subsentient, but not really, i'll try to avoid any code at all costs...
<knome> girl? o.O
<Unit193> knome: Jurassic Park.
<Subsentient> it's just an expression :^)
<knome> Unit193, Gladiator.
<knome> Subsentient, i see... thanks mom.
<knome> O:)
<Subsentient> knome: Any time sweetie
<bluesabre> knome: still around?
<bluesabre> 10 minutes of hacking http://i.imgur.com/E4bEqaB.png
<Unit193> bluesabre: He went to bed several minutes ago.
<bluesabre> aww
<bluesabre> knome: for when you get back, https://youtu.be/kuei-Xk0g6E
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://ubottu.com/y/vv | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ochosi> wow, both gimp and LO are in a tight spot, just like pleia2 likes it i guess :)
<elfy> we should have had 1 vote for the abiword thing
<ochosi> to prevent us from shipping no office stuff at all?
<elfy> the vote doesn't prevent us doing that 
<ochosi> i think that was knome's (not-so-secret) plan all along
<elfy> bbl 
<ali1234> let's drop everything
<ali1234> ship nothing that isn't a core part of xfce from xfce.org
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> that was bizarre ... 
<elfy> anyway - work for me now 
<ali1234> it's funny that people want a cut down paint program, but they don't want the cut down word processor and spreadsheet that they currently have
<Unit193> Hey now, look at my votes!  They don't do that! :P
<ochosi> i have no problem with gnumeric, but abiword sucks
<ochosi> actually it shouldn't be very hard to add basic image editing functions to ristretto (rotate, flip), but i think stephan arts was always really opposed to that
<ali1234> "print" would be nice
<ochosi> yeah, eog has that
<Unit193> ochosi: http://www.abisource.com/release-notes/3.0.1.phtml wasn't good enough?
<bluesabre> the problem isn't wanting minimalistic applications, rather that Abiword is usually a nest of bugs
<bluesabre> if it wasn't so bad, I don't think we'd even have the conversation about replacing it
<brainvvash> bluesabre, ochosi: did xfdesktop even draw the background before the ubiquity devs messed around with opting out feh or using some gsettings voodoo?
<brainvvash> I think that xfdestkop always showed desktop icons by default, so why weren't they visible before?
<knome> bluesabre, cool
<knome> ochosi, not really..
<knome> :P
<ochosi> not really what?
<knome> my plan to not ship any office suite
<ochosi> oh, ofc :)
<ochosi> bbabl
<knome> aha
<slickymasterWork> hey knome 
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> soryy knome
<slickymasterWork> * sorry 
<knome> what? :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, have you thought about krytarik's MP?
<slickymasterWork> sorry for the delay
<knome> hmph.
 * slickymasterWork hates when knome answers hmph
<knome> i'm still not happy with all of the details of it
<knome> mostly the cross reference handling
<knome> but as Unit193 said, we'll need a part of that merge proposal anyway
<slickymasterWork> exactly, and we already changed x-d-s because of it
<knome> so i would say we should go ahead with the other changes *now* and poke bluesbre for an upload
<slickymasterWork> can't do anything right now~
<slickymasterWork> later at home
<slickymasterWork> unless you have five minutes to spare and do it knome 
<knome> i can do it later too
<slickymasterWork> lol, which one of us that manages to do it will do it ;)
<knome> yep
<elfy> nate254: yea - 6 monthly
<elfy> so vv will release in April, then we start looking at the next - which will be October (15.10)
<elfy> which will be followed by the next LTS 16.04 - then the cycle starts again 
<nate254> Here's a question: is it normal that upgrading from 14.04 LTS to 14.10 breaks the system? 
<elfy> nate254: no 
<nate254> elfy: Okay. I suppose I've never had much luck with it then
<davmor2> slickymaster: could be worse, you could have no answer from knome at all
<knome> slickymaster, did you merge the proposal as is or without the cross reference part?
<slickymaster> I merged as it was knome 
<knome> ok
<slickymaster> wasn't it supposed to be merged entirly knome?
<slickymaster> I'm guessing not :P
<bluesabre> need an upload?
<slickymaster> if you'd be so kind bluesabre
<slickymaster> pretty please?
<knome> slickymaster, well i said i wasn't completely happy with the cross references and that we probably should merge the other parts now
<knome> but if you merged it already... 
 * knome shrugs
<ochosi> hey folks
<slickymaster> sorry knome 
<slickymaster> my bad
<knome> it's not an LTS, we can act next cycle too
<knome> nah, it's ok
<knome> you're the doc lead anyway
<knome> hullo ochosi, bluesabre 
<slickymaster> I knew you weren't too happy about the cross references
<knome> and hello slickymaster officiall too :P
<knome> slickymaster, yeah, they were part of the MP
<slickymaster> but I got the impression that wouldn't bother it to be merged now and afterwards rollbacked if needed
<knome> well that's the other option
<bluesabre> next question is, what am I uploading?
<knome> bluesabre, -docs
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> and hey officially also knome, bluesabre and ochosi 
<knome> btw, we need a new upload for the slideshow
<knome> iirc, dylan, the project driver, is working on it, but i'm not sure.
<ochosi> oh, why's that?
<knome> well, because dylan merged some content changes from jack
<knome> but didn't update the translation templates
<knome> so a few strings will be non-translated for all languages
<knome> unless we have a new upload that allows people to actually translate those messages
<knome> and we need the upload because the translations are done for the ubuntu package, not the upstream
<knome> we're pushing to change this for the next cycle though, so uploads would only be needed AFTER the translation work is done
<slickymaster> exactly
<knome> (now it's needed BOTH BEFORE and AFTER)
<slickymaster> which is something we're wishing to change from next cycle on
<knome> didn't i say that? :P
<ochosi> ah ok
<knome> so yeah
<knome> the merging was...
<knome> well not unwelcome, but unexpected
<knome> i would have personally waited for 15.10 with that
<knome> basically because of this need of uploads we now have
<knome> (and because it was after string freeze and all..)
<slickymaster> yeap
<bluesabre> anything else need to go into -docs, or are they good to go?
<ochosi> too late to revert?
<knome> ochosi, slideshow? not really, but then it would need an upload too..
<knome> bluesabre, good to go (just make sure changelog looks sane)
<bluesabre> knome: thanks, will upload shortly
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<knome> ochosi, i mean, the changes itself are okay, nothing wrong with them; they just landed quite late and gave us this translation issue
<slickymaster> on the worst bad timing possible
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> hey pleia2 
<ochosi> first of all, nice interview in the fridge!
<pleia2> hey ochosi 
<pleia2> thanks :)
<ochosi> secondly, i'm curious about your tie-breaking skills :]
<pleia2> ah yes, I saw mention of gimp and libreoffice
<ochosi> at least iirc you were the last one to vote, which makes it all the more fun
<knome> ochosi, what's the situation now?
<knome> are we dropping abiword/gnumeric anyway?
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> great
<ochosi> but both gimp and LO are in tight spots
<knome> i mean...
<knome> it's progress.
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> despite having a team vote result, we might have to discuss those two further in the 15.10 cycle
<ochosi> (assess how much space things take and if we go for LO, we need to settle on what parts we'd go for)
<pleia2> how are they in tight spots?
<ochosi> gimp: pro: 3, con: 3, 0: 3
<ochosi> same for LO
<knome> pleia2, you being the tiebreaker
<bluesabre> glad I voted yesterday
<knome> pleia2, well not the tiebreaker, but the deciding vote...
<pleia2> did we drop gimp at some point?
<ochosi> nope
<knome> pleia2, unless you vote +0, when ochosi's vote becomes tiebreaker
<knome> pleia2, no :(
<knome> oh wait, did we?
<knome> when we wanted to fit a CD
<knome> then we reintroduced that and abiword and gnumeric
<pleia2> I thought we did, but I forget now
<knome> surely we did that
<ochosi> pleia2: no rush, take your time to read up on the discussion - you still have a week until time runs out
<pleia2> I think we drop gimp (as much as I love it so, my poor, darling gimp!), and bring on LO (i've felt this way for ages)
<knome> "Gnumeric and GIMP are reintroduced on the ISO" <- 13.04 release
<knome> yay for dropping gimp
<bluesabre> pleia2: that sounds like a good outcome
<pleia2> I don't need to read more about LO
<knome> boo for bringing LO :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<knome> ochosi, set a vote for the components to include...
<bluesabre> LO looks more like Gtk than abiword and gnumeric oftentimes
<ochosi> also because it's maximum change, and 15.10 is still for trying things out before we settle on something for the LTS
<knome> LO always looks more like an office suite
<pleia2> based on feedback on mailing lists and social media from our users, LO is what people use
<knome> yes
<ochosi> true
<knome> slickymaster, be ready to rewrite the documentation...
<ochosi> lol
<bluesabre> knome: gave you something to do https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/255596 :)
<knome> i'll do that right now
<knome> oh man
<knome> what kind of conflict do i have now
 * knome rebranches
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> just setting history straight :)
<knome> done
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> actually, should have made that string shorter, woops
<bluesabre> Unit193 will pick on me for that one later
<knome> lol
<knome> Unit193 is Mr. Pickles
<bluesabre> mhm
<knome> sent mail to -devel, please discuss :)
<bluesabre> Unit193 CookieMonster Pickles
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-09
<Unit193> Gookies. :D
<knome> ooh, he's back
<Unit193> Yarp.
<Unit193> I gotted a mention.
<knome> no kidding there
<Unit193> sidi: Congrats on the gtk+3.0 mention.
<bluesabre> +1
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can I update ppa:extras to very shortly point to xfdashy and xfce4-soundmenu bugzilla links?  We want people testing to report, and a reminder helps (but grows he description a bit. :/ )
<Unit193> fb6fab41        02_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch
<Unit193> fb6fab41        03_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch
<Unit193> Nice.
<Unit193> https://sources.debian.net/src/xfce4-session/4.12.1-1/debian/patches/ go home Debian, you're drunk.
<elfy> let's hope it's not UTC there - 7am is too early for that behaviour 
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/patch/?id=26f9ae8df629f02af0773df2ed82db6b85c5b556 I wanted that, Uploading xfce4-session_4.12.1-1ubuntu2~15.04.dsc: done.
<sidi> Unit193, were you guys having problems with it?
<Unit193> Don't think so.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<sidi> morning Simon
<Unit193> Morning, Steve.
<ochosi> morning, err, Unit?
<sidi> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, mentioned that earlier about the double patches, but we got that from debian :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: I added you to -dev, so yeah, update the ppa info
<knome> Unit193, sure, let's have the discussion here.
<knome> re: discussion on whether the community voice is heard or not, and whether it can have any effect on what the team decides
<knome> the sidetrack being if this channel is too "frightening" for people to talk in (because of logging or the more official status, whatever that might mean)
<GridCube> i tried to make a rationale of why i would like to change gmb, i think ali is making it again, but there is no interest in hearing about it
<knome> GridCube, and how do you come to that conclusion?
<GridCube> because there was no other input than mine in my first try, and ali is doing all the work alone again
<knome> so to be "interested in hearing", you think that several team members should "help" the person who wants change to do his comparison?
<GridCube> again i understand the main counter argument, no one is willing to mantain the packages they don't care about, so who will?
<knome> that's not even a counter argument what i'm asking about
<GridCube> knome: yes, because they are taking the time to try and help the project be a little bit better, at least some input, some help, something that tells us that we are being listened
<knome> GridCube, but don't you think the reason why team members aren't doing it in the first place is the lack of time?
<knome> GridCube, it isn't like people were working on it, and when somebody outside the team started working on it, everybody washed their hands from it
<Unit193> knome: Fine.  You act like you're saying "patches welcome", but everything else you say seems to be "Well formatted patches that conform to our standards and don't change anything else welcome"
<GridCube> sure, absolutelly, and tahts why is correct that the people who thinks that things need to change are the ones who have to do the work, but at least we would like to know that we are going to be listened, that theres some interest from your side to hear about it
<knome> Unit193, how do you come to that conclusion?
<Unit193> It's an impression.
<knome> GridCube, we're definitely interested.
<GridCube> doesnt seems like it, sorry
<Unit193> GridCube +1
<GridCube> im not the first one, nor is ali1234, to point gmb is not a good media player, but theres absolutelly no interest on hearing about it
<GridCube> and thats just an example
<knome> what should the team do then to make it feel like we're listening, if we leave out "work with them" (since it's a question of lack of time to begin with)
<GridCube> i dont know
<knome> GridCube, the reason why i've told him that i am not interested in hearing why gmb is not a good media player is because i'd rather hear which application is a good media player
<GridCube> that has been done, ali1234 has done it, i have done it
<brainwash> 15.04 will be released very soon, so there is plenty of time to discuss if the audio player should be changed in 15.10 or later
<brainwash> there is no hurry
<knome> GridCube, i appreciated your effort, but maybe you dropped the ball a bit too early
<GridCube> maybe
<Unit193> Heck, use aqualung for all I care, as long as it isn't gmb.
<Unit193> knome: You/ochosi decided with GridCube at the time that perhaps because of his strong dislike for gmb, his bias may cloud things.
<knome> tbh, it became gmb-bashing
<knome> which is unproductive because that doesn't address how we should fix the issue but what the issue is
<GridCube> im not saying im not at fault here, i just felt un-apreciated, i felt that whatever i did was falling on deaf ears so it made no sense for me to try, same with gthumb, we got it in once we had to drop gimp for space reasons, it was good because its a good replacement, next cycles it was deleted because "does the same as gimp and ristretto"
<GridCube> sure, whynot get rid of gimp and ristretto and leave gthumb then?
<knome> GridCube, because nobody proposed that when the discussion was open, only once we had started voting on the options brought up.
<GridCube> i did
<knome> right, but i didn't see much support for that
<Noskcaj> GridCube, I'd support it if someone writes a menubar patch for gthumb, until then, it's staying unmaintained in debian and unused by us
<GridCube> Noskcaj: good point, thats why i keep saying that it makes no sense for me to propose anything because "who will maintain it"
<knome> GridCube, but that's not something the team can affect, is it?
<GridCube> i can't do it, i dont have the technicall abilities to do so
<GridCube> exactly, and thats again why i dropped the case in the first place
<Noskcaj> GridCube, Actually, there is now a debian maintainer. So all you need is to ask gnome devs enough times for a patch
<knome> it's sad but true that the only way to know how many people actually NEED gimp (or anything else) installed in the default installation is to drop it and hear the feedback
<Unit193> I'll admit that while I think gimp can be overkill, it's a nice one to have.
<knome> that's one of the reasons we are doing this well before the LTS release so we have time to react to feedback
<GridCube> we had already droped it
<GridCube> nothing really bad happened at all
<knome> GridCube, yep.
<knome> GridCube, that's my position, it's probably going to be just fine
<knome> even if people argue vocally about it
<GridCube> agreed
<knome> Unit193, i kind of think the same... then i realize i very rarely even open gimp
<Unit193> True.
<GridCube> (if we provide alternative to image edition)
<knome> so i don't think it's a requirement even for me (if i composed my own default seed), and i happen to work with artwork
<knome> GridCube, even without an alternative.
<knome> GridCube, i'm not using anything that can be counted as an alternative regularly
<Unit193> I tend to use it, when I could have used something like xnview in Windows. :P
<knome> a small set of scripts or something would be fine for most
<knome> rotate, resize
<knome> things like that
<GridCube> imagemagic has a sort of gui that does that, but its very ugly
<knome> GridCube, i said that in the meeting already, but it could even be a set of thunar custom actions as far as i care
<knome> (that did it via imagemagick's CLI commands)
<GridCube> mmhm, that could be nice
<knome> and light.
<mrkramps> you could use extactimage instead which should be smaller than imagemagick
<knome> well again, the technical implementation is a side-issue
<knome> if somebody is interested enough, they'll work their way this way or the other
<knome> and even imagemagick is smaller than gimp...
<ochosi> time and time again, it's interesting how much the emotion the default app set conjures
<ochosi> whoa, i need to redact that sentence, let me try again...
<knome> lol
<ochosi> time and time again, it's interesting to see how much emotion the default app set conjures
<knome> right
<knome> but it's also sad to see that it generates frustration, because "the team isn't listening"
<ochosi> yeah, oh well. people complain about various things all the time
<ochosi> i'm not happy about people being frustrated, then again i really feel that i try to listen
<knome> sure, but i wonder if there is anything that the team could help to fight that frustration
<knome> or even some team members.
<ochosi> then again, i'm frustrated about people expecting *me* to do the things they're interested in or want changed
<knome> i mean, even some team members being frustrated
<knome> or things that simple aren't up high enough on the priority, so they are being postponed
<ochosi> is this still (and foremostly) about gmusicbrowser?
<knome> i believe that it is
<knome> and that's also a sad part
<knome> because the default media player choice/change shouldn't be about gmb, it should be about the other players..
<ochosi> so what's the status on the comparison that ali started?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<Unit193> Considering it's not just me (as a team member) annoyed?  Yeah.
<knome> Unit193, i didn't get that
<mrkramps> eh, audacious can do "jump to song"
<ochosi> yeah, i dont think the table is completely correct. also, that's only a starting point
<knome> mmazing, to be fair, gmb can do several of the tasks mentioned in the table that it's marked as "can't do"
<knome> mrkramps, ^
<ochosi> Unit193: so what about dropping gmusicbrowser without replacement?
<knome> i guess the outcome depends on the subjectively relative findability of those features
<mmazing> i was gonna say haha, geez, i just join and people are already angry with me
<Unit193> Just, hidden, in the closet behind the old table.
<knome> mmazing, not angry at all, just commenting. and sorry for the accidental highlight
<Unit193> ochosi: At this point, that'd be great.  Parole has a basic media library no?
<mmazing> knome: i know :) just kidding around
<Unit193> ochosi: But, I'm fine with recommending gmb, or something.
<ochosi> Unit193: nope, no library. but playback and playlists/streams etc
<knome> ochosi, Unit193: some people argue that there is no way we couldn't do without a "real" media player
<knome> err, "could do"...
<ochosi> they might say the same thing about office suits
<knome> yes.
<elfy> oh my 
<ochosi> and given that we don't have the final result of the vote, it could happen
<knome> elfy, welcome...
<ochosi> i mean seriously you guys, how bad can it be?
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<Unit193> !info webservice-office-zoho
<ubottu> webservice-office-zoho (source: webservice-office-zoho): Ubuntu Webservice Office (Zoho). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.3-0ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 21 kB, installed size 164 kB
<knome> ochosi, i'm fine with dropping gmb too with no replacement.
<knome> as i've said before, it seems like the only "not wrong" option
<Unit193> But, we're not trying to create xubuntu-core with xubuntu-desktop, fwiw.
<ochosi> blog XY will go "they destroyed xubuntu!!!" or "they mistreat their users" (mistakingly thinking that we're service providers to customers), but that'll be about it
<knome> Unit193, no, there is still FF/TB at least...
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i agree
<ochosi> haha, the XUL crap. how i wouldn't mind to get rid of those two ;)
<mmazing> what is gmb again? not having luck on google :\
<ochosi> mmazing: shorthand for gmusicbrowser
<knome> ochosi, and replaced with what? the big brother goo-gel stuff?
<ochosi> knome: midori?
<knome> midori's web browsing abilities are relatively bad.
<Unit193> xombrero is even better.
<knome> granted, i haven't followed its development very closely lately, but it's not really what people excpect from a browser
<brainwash> replace it with firefox-gtk3 in the future
<GridCube> vivaldi 
<GridCube> i mean we trowing names around
<ochosi> yeah, let's not go into this further. my point is: i *am* open to changing our default app set and i've repeatedly said i don't mind replacing or dropping gmusicbrowser, so i'd really love it if we could take a step back and take a breath
<mmazing> i, for one, don't like seeing stuff like rhythmbox/etc installed by default (and gmb isn't installed on my version of xubuntu 14.04, anyway), it seems like the sort of thing that people will decide which one they like and install it on their own
<ochosi> mmazing: they do that with pretty much everything anyway
<Unit193> brainwash: Had problems building. :D
<mmazing> ochosi: agreed
<Unit193> knome: And, version in Debian is so very old.
<brainwash> Unit193: it will work at some point
<Unit193> ochosi: Well yes and no.  If you want barebones, install that.
<ochosi> mmazing: which is why i said that these discussions usually get blown out of proportion and overly emotional (for my taste)
<knome> Unit193, at least we can affect that though..
<mmazing> ochosi: also agreed :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, but is the default is hardly usable but yet you still can't get rid of it? :P
<ochosi> Unit193: again with the flaming?
<Unit193> ochosi: Just trying to say, there's another side of it.
<knome> yes, i would so much rather here what is *so much better* with the new app somebody is proposing than what is wrong with the current one
<ochosi> s/here/hear/
<GridCube> thats the other thing, the culture of "its just an apt-get away", i agree to that, but i think we need to teach people to use apt-get/usc, we should have a simple "welcome to xubuntu" thing that has a few pages teaching people how to get any software they want
<Unit193> knome: Sure, but the one I have installed isn't an option as it isn't in the repos. :P
<ochosi> then package it
<elfy> not sayiing anything
<ochosi> do something about it, other than whining
<elfy> so 
<Unit193> ochosi: Already did.  You think I installed into /usr/local/? :D
<ochosi> hehe, well who knows :)
<knome> ochosi, thank you mr. grammar police
<ochosi> knome: yw
<Unit193> So, therefor I did do something about it.
<ochosi> Unit193: well package it for others then
<ochosi> if you think it's a viable candidate
<knome> GridCube, we are welcoming contributions for documentation too
<mrkramps> or at least tell us which one it is -.-
<Unit193> ochosi: I did, it's in their daily ppa.  I don't think it's fit for Ubuntu repos because of bundled libs, and another xul.
<ochosi> Unit193: and really, please stop this "gmb is not usable" nonsense. i'm trying to have a reasonable conversation with you here...
<ochosi> oh no, not another xul
<knome> ochosi, in your opinion
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah, well that's what I've read from others.  I"ve not used it long enough to find out if it's "utterly unusable" as they say.
<knome> ochosi, got to make that disclaimer so people won't think it's an official statement for the project.
<Unit193> Eh, "not another xul" is somewhat valid.
 * Unit193 sighs.
<knome> Unit193, so you are passing on flaming comments from others without checking if they are at least somewhat true? nice :)
<Unit193> knome: It's called paraphrasing...
<knome> Unit193, or FUD.
<Unit193> Perhaps, yes.  Either way.  Quotes likely would have helped you.
<knome> but ultimately, i don't see how mocking GMB actually gets anything done.
<elfy> might be useful if people wandered off and did something else here
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, good idea :)
<knome> or maybe the strategy is to mock it until the XPL bursts into tears, cracks, and promises to install every media player
 * ochosi wanders off to do something else
<knome> and it might be useful to actually finish off the discussions, instead of stopping them when everybody has a bad taste in their mouth and thus making all of the future discussions about the same topic reprises of the previous one
<elfy> it's not a discussion, it's a bunch of bad mouthing at each other
<knome> maybe it should be ended before it turns into that
<elfy> I'm not going to get involved in media player discussions, my point was made a long time ago and hasn't changed, so you all carry on 
<Unit193> Nooope, as I've said, I'm done too now.
<GridCube> knome: im not talking about documentation though, im talking about something more visible, for example a simple slideshow html5 file linked from the desktop that says "welcome to xubuntu"  and has like 10 pages just telling you how to get to documetation, how to install programs in a visual and simple way, some alternatives to
<GridCube> media/ofimatic/webbrowsing/ims/graphics, and thats it, with links to install frm usc or not i dont know, i think that would take most of this "what default application" discussions out of order
<knome> Unit193, i'm sorry if i offended by anything; that's obviously not the goal. furthermore, as i see it, there are many things we agree about even within this discussion, and i'm sorry for not always being able to see, or express that clearly enogh
<knome> GridCube, that's part of the documentation
<GridCube> ok
<knome> GridCube, http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/managing-applications.html#ubuntu-software-center
<knome> GridCube, i understand that's not exactly what you are describing, but is there something else than screenshots that could be improved there?
<knome> GridCube, the whole chapter really (http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/managing-applications.html)
<knome> GridCube, and of course, trying to make the documentation more visible...
<elfy> GridCube: one of the *buntu derivatives do something similar I think, 
<elfy> or could be something else entirely, while since I've seen it, but shows when you boot first time
<knome> one of the actionable items would be to add a shortcut to the documentation on the desktop
<elfy> with a 'Don't show this again' checkbox
<knome> elfy, why so shady about the derivative :P
<elfy> because I'm really not sure which it was 
<knome> good rationale.
<elfy> if I thought it was Mint I'd have said so :)
<GridCube> knome: my opinion is, thats just a wall of text that 94.325% of the people will not bother to read. Im talking about something shiny, simple and squared, something a newbie can just waste 40 seconds on see all and learn the basics
<GridCube> and then they can delete the file from their desktop
<elfy> I assume you are meaning something *like* the install slideshow, that plays on first boot? 
<knome> GridCube, please, don't understand this as a snarky comment as it really isn't; it's the most serious tone i have: do you think that the whole documentation is more or less not useful, since it doesn't have a very simple approach to the topics?
<GridCube> elfy: yes
<knome> the other actionable item could be to add a slide about USC (back) to the installer slideshow then
<GridCube> knome: no, i just understand how documentaion usually works in any project around the whole planet, not here, our documentation is excellent, users dont like to read them
<elfy> knome: I think that GridCube is talking about more detail than the slideshow itself gives
<knome> elfy, maybe, but he also wanted a shiny thing that's very short and easily accessible, which i think is equal to the slideshow
<GridCube> im just talking about a guide that welcomes new users and gives fancy and graphical indications of how to do basics
<knome> GridCube, so do i interpret you right that you'd want to see more screenshots on the documentation?
<elfy> ^^
<knome> GridCube, or is it something else than that
<GridCube> knome: no, documentaion is documentation
<GridCube> its not the same
<knome> ok...
<knome> so in addition to the documentation that goes through the basic stuff, we should have some other documentation that goes through basic stuff?
<knome> i'm confused...
<elfy> no
<elfy> not docs
<elfy> *like* slideshow sort of thing
<GridCube> you can point to documentation from the slideshow
<mrkramps> pictures/animation to explain the first steps right after first boot of installed system
<elfy> but more about how to use USC
<mrkramps> something like "take the tour"
<knome> elfy, (still no snarky sound, still serious) but isn't it basically documentation if we tell the people the same things we tell them on the documentation?
<knome> GridCube, we do
<GridCube> "read more about media players here" [link to docs]
<elfy> mrkramps: that's my understanding
<knome> what would the tour consist of?
<knome> could it be another chapter in the documentation that was more "graphical"/had more screenshots?
<elfy> knome: yes ofc - but different people access information in different ways, I'm happy to read a 600 page book on ecology 
<knome> i'm failing to see why another piece of technical platform is needed here...
<elfy> would hate to read a 600 page book on gmb ;)
<knome> we can turn the documentation into marvelous things
<mrkramps> knome, absolutely nobody who really should is reading a manual
<knome> mrkramps, but that's hardly our fault... :)
<elfy> knome: it's not so much technical - but a halfway, enough to get you going platform
<elfy> GridCube: ^^ is that what you mean? 
<GridCube> yes
<knome> i wasn't talking about the content though
<elfy> I understand where you are then :)
<knome> i was talking about the platform where it is build on
<knome> i understand what GridCube is saying too
<knome> but i don't understand why it couldn't be either 1) on the slideshow 2) on the documentation
<elfy> then the platform is slideshowy 
<knome> -y?
<GridCube> i understand knome point, we could have just one slideshow for each chapter of the documentation, that links to the full text
<elfy> and then it's too long
<knome> GridCube, i would guess that nobody would follow the slideshow if it was like that though
<knome> GridCube, i wouldn't..
<elfy> when people were installing from cd to hdd 
<knome> (i'll happily read a manual though)
<GridCube> not many people would
<elfy> now I'm lucky to see the slideshow for 5 minutes 
<GridCube> and im talking as a librarian
<knome> GridCube, sure, i just wanted to point that out to say that even if i think (well-written) manuals are okay, i wouldn't enjoy a slideshow with an introduction of all the manual chapters
<knome> i'd just rather want to dig deep in the manual right away
<knome> brb
<GridCube> yeah well was just a random though
<GridCube> i think that 10 pages slideshow is enough, like "welcome|handling files|internet|messaging|music/video|offimatic|games|advanced stuff|read more in docs"
<knome> GridCube, we have a lot more slides to cover in the slideshow too
<mrkramps> GridCube, you forgot "installing software"
<knome> GridCube, we've come to the conclusion that 7-8 is the right amount
<elfy> knome: I really think the install slideshow is the wrong place
<elfy> for what GridCube is talking about
<knome> elfy, you are likely right, but then, we already do have a link to the documentation from the slideshow
<knome> which is why i asked my original question:
<elfy> yes 
<GridCube> mrkramps: no, in each of those you say "if you want more options to ... you can get them in the usc"
<knome> how can we improve the docs so that it's more accessible for a new user
<knome> or what kind of tour could the documentation have
<elfy> that just goes back to the some like docs, some don't :D
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> elfy, but if you don't like docs, and don't read them, you also can't whine that we didn't tell you how to install your $favorite_music_player
<knome> :)
<elfy> right, so docs tour - great, expand in the slide about the thing your linking to in a bit more detail
<GridCube> knome: the slideshow just happens on installing
<GridCube> the current one
<elfy> it doesn't have to be Xpx by Xpx
<GridCube> and only if you reach the installing point
<mrkramps> maybe just upload a tour at YT?
<GridCube> you cant just launch the slideshow to see it 
<elfy> make it larger, expand the detail - link to docs
<knome> elfy, sounds like a good idea to me
<GridCube> again i think somthing like an html5 page, not even a proper program
<elfy> half way house between the basics and the docs
<knome> elfy, and the tour in the docs is always accessible after installation too (GridCube ^)
<knome> GridCube, like our docs :)
<GridCube> should do it, and most anyone could maintain it
<GridCube> knome: is it?
<knome> GridCube, well it's written in docbook, but it's shipped as html
<knome> but we're maintaining that already, so adding more to it isn't a problem
<elfy> GridCube: and do you have the knowledge to do some of this? 
<knome> setting up another platform, for one, would mean more maintaining burden
<knome> which is why i'm against that
<elfy> because if so I could try and help too 
<GridCube> im am not a webdeveloper but i checked online and theres plenty of opensource slideshows available on github and what not that could be used
<elfy> knome: but once set up? a change in UCS in docs - how to make sure change to *new thing* happens
<GridCube> i dont think it would be so hard to start from there and create our own
<knome> elfy, the same as everything in the docs - we make sure it's up-to-date
<GridCube> i could try it
<elfy> GridCube: neither am I - but trying has to be worth it - and I could try with you 
<knome> GridCube, the question is not only to set up the "slideshow", it's about setting the packaging and a lot more to be installed with xubuntu
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> knome: ack, so just about management
<GridCube> i understand
<knome> elfy, yes, contrary to another platform, which would also need a setup (and duplicated the package/upload -like management)
<elfy> right
<GridCube> so it makes no sense to try to do something because we wont have any help to get it done, got it
<knome> GridCube, you're understanding it wrong, really.
<knome> i'm strong +1 for adding new content and making it look different
<knome> but i'm strong -1 for adding complexity via additional platforms
<elfy> GridCube: I'm sure that we'd get help when we've got a working model, why not work on that first 
<GridCube> well i dont understand your plataform so i cant help
<GridCube> elfy: sure
<knome> GridCube, we can help you convert your content into docbook
<elfy> knome: is docbook how slideshow is written?
<knome> elfy, no, the slideshow again is pure html
<GridCube> i dont understand then
<knome> GridCube, what don't you understand?
<GridCube> how do you get a slideshow if thats not how you do an slideshow
<elfy> knome: GridCube is envisaging a slideshow for this stuff - eg html
<elfy> I think 
<knome> i don't understand why it needs to be a slideshow
<GridCube> im not talking about adding screenshots to documentation
<knome> but fair enough, let's discuss that direction
<GridCube> because its visual, its fast and its simple
<elfy> GridCube: neither am I at this point
<knome> if it can't be inside the documentation, then you'll need another package
<GridCube> yes, thats the point
<elfy> so we'll need another package 
<knome> and somebody to set that up
<mrkramps> and i have to purge it
<GridCube> and no one will
<elfy> or help others learn how to 
<knome> as well as all the things related to that (which i don't understand)
<GridCube> ?
<elfy> GridCube: how about we focus on what we CAN do now, and worry about tomorrow then
<elfy> I couldn't wire a jumbo jet up till I learnt how
<elfy> my plan is to make Unit193 go grey before me :p
<GridCube> its just really tiring elfy 
<knome> another thing that somewhat worries me is that you want another way to tell people how to install packages while the documentation already does that
<GridCube> and?
<Unit193> elfy: Already had some random whites.
<GridCube> redundancy is good in this case
<elfy> GridCube: yea I know what you mean, but if people like you and I don't do the things that we think others might like, who else will 
<knome> GridCube, redundancy means more things to maintain, eg. more time to be used to maintain the stuff, not create new
<elfy> unless it's adding something 
<GridCube> yes
<knome> sure.
<elfy> that is for people who don't want to read loads of things if the basics are graspable with a shove in the right direction
<GridCube> i have to repeat then: so it makes no sense to try to do something because we wont have any help to get it done, got it
<elfy> at that point it IS worth it 
<knome> elfy, which is why i'm asking - could a more graphical chapter in the documentation do the same thing?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> because people dont go to docuemtation in the first place
<elfy> I don't think it's even close knome 
<elfy> GridCube: and that's not why I think that 
<knome> GridCube, then let me ask my second question again... how do we make people go to the documentation?
<elfy> they are 2 different ways of promulgating the information imo
<GridCube> knome: we change the reality of the world,or we add a slideshow that points people to it
<GridCube> the information we would want in the slideshow is already on the documentation, we would just make it visible and spark the suer interest on it, so they can go and keep reading if they feel the need
<elfy> GridCube: that ^^
<elfy> perhaps the way to approach this is for GridCube and me to go and make a working *slideshow* then go from there
<elfy> we have 2 cycles
<knome> what's the plan B if it's not possible to include it in the next LTS because of some limitation, be it lack of time or technical problems?
<GridCube> if its an html slideshow it could go on the website and have a link from whiskers to it?
<knome> and before you go too deep in anything, have a quick chat with slickymaster and the technical people on the channel to discuss what they think of this, how they would like it to be executed, and if it's technically doable within some timeframe
<elfy> Plan B would be to make sure that -team thinks it is a good long term thing for Xubuntu to have and it comes when it comes
<knome> then let's make sure that is involved with plan A....
<knome> but i was talking about a technical plan B :)
<knome> GridCube, potentially, though it would likely need some changes on the website code
<elfy> knome: who knows, at the moment it's an idea, a useful one imo and I'm happy to put time to it 
<knome> as i said, you should talk with david
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> I can 
<knome> another thing to consider is how it would overlap with the slideshow, and the tour on the website
<knome> (which is currently another kind of tour....)
<GridCube> i think it being hosted on the website should be a secondary option, i would like for people to have it witouth internet access
<GridCube> like docs
<elfy> then it has to be on the install
<elfy> GridCube: I really think that the best way forward is for us to get a working idea together
<elfy> then we can put it to -team as a proposal
<elfy> then we find what needs to be done and dealt with
<elfy> otherwise we get into a protracted session of working out when and where we do things, without actually doing anything
<elfy> until other people have something in front of them it is just words and ideas :)
<GridCube> right
<GridCube> agreed
<elfy> GridCube: ok - cool
<elfy> please remember though that release is in 2 weeks or so, and I'm going to be all :( for a bit
<knome> elfy, just ":(" ?
<elfy> was being positive :)
<knome> :)
<elfy> GridCube: how about you think about the order of what we look at, and how we can communicate together on it - maybe trello or ... 
<knome> elfy, a leading question!! :P
<elfy> heh 
<GridCube> i never understood how trello works
<GridCube> but im willing to try it again
<elfy> it's just a whiteboard you can scribble on, move things about 
<elfy> it's as complicated as you make it 
<elfy> GridCube: we can do the communicating anyway you want, makes no difference to me
<elfy> just not IRC - timezones ... 
<GridCube> mails sound razonable to me
<elfy> GridCube: it's YOUR project, I'm just giving you my time and thoughts ;)
<elfy> ok - wfm
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> one thing though
<GridCube> perfect
<GridCube> say
<elfy> can we work out first how many *pages* give them names
<elfy> then only talk about *foo* on the foo mail - I thread them here 
<GridCube> mmhm, or maybe one of those ubuntu pads we can edit each other so if someone else wants to join or see they have it available
<elfy> possible
<GridCube> i can create one of those right now
<elfy> but again we need to have pad per *page*
<GridCube> maybe a main one and then them separated
<knome> or one pad with separators
<elfy> there can be a general one to index others and to get the general direction sorted
<knome> (just an idea, it would be much more accessible, considering the pages are short)
<GridCube> mmhm i like knome's idea
<knome> also easier to follow the big picture
<GridCube> we start with one and see if we need more as time comes
<elfy> ok - well never done that nor set it up 
<GridCube> http://pad.ubuntu.com/1Ki6doF41F
<knome> btw, for the future,
<knome> you can have a named pad
<knome> just go to http://pad.ubuntu.com/any-name and it'll ask to create any-name for you
<GridCube> ah
<GridCube> welp, too late now
<knome> well you can just create a new one
<knome> and dismiss that :P
<knome> if you want, that is
<elfy> GridCube: copy paste for the win :)
<elfy> knome: what do you mean by pad seperators? 
<elfy> GridCube: slow down a moment
<knome> elfy, add a few blank lines, then drop a line of --------------------------'s
<knome> elfy, you can even make that bold and uncolor it so it pops out more
<knome> or make them âââââ's and bold
<knome> so they'll look like a unified line..
<elfy> GridCube: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-install-slides
<elfy> knome: oh right
<elfy> I thought there was a way to have multiple pads linked ... 
<knome> oh, nope
<knome> at least not how we're doing it
<knome> but that's another topic...
<elfy> :)
<elfy> GridCube: I would make that page a general discussion, you can go to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-install-slides_1
<elfy> and make that just discussion on slide 1 
<elfy> it will get very confusing otherwise
<GridCube> sure i just wanted to have an overview in the first place
<elfy> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-10
<knome> hullo bluesabre 
 * bluesabre is sighted
<knome> bad sight is sight too..
<elfy> sight is just usually bad
<knome> bluesabre, not too late for translations
<knome> and please keep the devel discussion here :P
<bluesabre> goodie
<knome> wondering who's going to take care of that slideshow update still
<knome> s/update/upload/
<knome> we need one NOW and one on next week's thursday
<bluesabre> hm, maybe not for greeter-settings translations, seems the translation template and all translation files are completely different
<bluesabre> andrew_p has been busy x.x
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, right, telling you where would help.  ppa:unit193/xfce
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> 20:22	Unit193	 * d/p/xubuntu_git_Make_verbose_logging_conditional.patch:
<bluesabre> 20:22	Unit193	    - Backport a commit to turn off verbose logging by default.
<Unit193> bluesabre: So anything not for wombat to do?
<bluesabre> Unit193: hoping to have a new catfish or menulibre when wombat opens up
<bluesabre> and/or a gtk3-ready exo
<ochosi> bluesabre: does that mean i can put your name down in the 4.14 roadmap for exo? :)
<Unit193> Heh.
<knome> ochosi, regarding the mailing list,
<knome> ochosi, since we do not really want non-members to "vote" on the office/image editor discussion, what should i do with a non-member, moderation queue message:
<knome> ochosi, 1) simply discard the message; it doesn't appear on the list and no notification is made
<knome> ochosi, 2) reject the message with a note for the original poster telling why it is rejected
<knome> ochosi, 3) sth else
<ochosi> 1) sounds a bit harsh to my ears
<ochosi> 2) would be acceptable
<ochosi> for 3) i could imagine changing the subject, thus creating a new thread
<knome> to me, 2) sounds like we're going to have an argument over the issue with the poster
<knome> i recognise that email address being somebody who has posted irrelevant stuff before.
<ochosi> right, i guess if you know the poster, it's a slightly different issue
<knome> the mail is straightforward "vote", there is very little discussion
<ochosi> right, then my 3) is not an option
<ochosi> wasn't sure you were talking generally or about a specific message
<ochosi> if it's about this specific message, i would simply reject it (aka 1))
<knome> some one-liner arguments, but then again, it's supposed to be a team vote, and at this point there has been time to bring all arguments to the table (via the general, open for all thread before)
<knome> both this and to act as a guideline for future
<knome> i would lean to 1) too.
<knome> there is a way they can get their mail on the archive if they insist; just subscribe the list...
<Unit193> How about for all team votes and such, don't just set [TEAM] but explain what that means?
<knome> Unit193, it is explained.
<knome> clearly people, including you, don't read the mails
<ochosi> i thought i did explain it quite clearly in my first email
<ochosi> (for both votes)
<ochosi> even in CAPS :)
<knome> exactly, anybody who has actually read the original message but post their "vote" nonetheless (and are not a team member) are just plain ignorant
<knome> or, and this is the more likely option, they didn't read it
<Unit193> knome: Sure I do, but as that didn't work, does listing people help or no?  Granted, you're always going to get some no matter what.
<knome> ochosi, discarded
<ochosi> anyway, as a more general rule, we could set up a template message that quickly explains why a message was moderated/discarded
<knome> Unit193, i didn't..
<knome> ochosi, these are very rare occasions really
<Unit193> * Read this whole message, I don't always read all of them.  More so if I think it came from another list. >_>
<ochosi> something generic like "This is a team-only vote. Your message has been discarded. Create a new thread if you want to discuss something else."
<knome> most of the time the accident has already happened
<knome> this is an edge case where we were able to prevent the accident from happening
<ochosi> yeah, guess that's true
<knome> it's literally the first time
<ochosi> :)
<knome> Unit193, that just proves that no matter what we said, people are going to be ignorant
<knome> and that there is no way to stop them from posting except an all-moderated list, which people were against before
<knome> ochosi, should we set a vote for the next meeting about the strategy document?
<knome> elfy, i postponed survey 2, because clearly we should wait until we've done the moves for 15.10
<ochosi> knome: is that about the SD change where we remove the developer paragraph or something else?
<knome> ochosi, no, this is about the seeds and composition part
<ochosi> oh right, yeah got it
<knome> the developer paragraph is gone
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<ochosi> yeah, i was distracted by other stuff there
<knome> ok, good, i'll add it to the agenda
<knome> no worries
<knome> just going through the open work items..
<ochosi> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<knome> i'm procrastinating real work
<ochosi> yeah, i should get back to that now
<knome> specifically writing an offer :P
<knome> back to procrastinating? sounds good.
<brainwash> bluesabre: the last xfdesktop update for trusty (SRU) triggered an automatic crash report. any news on this? did all users get the update despite the report?
<brainwash> bug 1415683
<ubottu> bug 1415683 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_file_icon_manager_metadata_changed:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call:g_cclosure_marshal_generic_va:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415683
<brainwash> should the fix be backported?
<brainwash> + https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1335492/comments/58
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335492 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "[4.11.8] Desktop icons rearrange on each login" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> knome: yup, ty 
<brainwash> could xubuntu opt out of "One Hundred Papercuts"? alberto tends to add it to the affects list of many bug reports, but there really seems to be no benefit
<elfy> not sure if we can opt out - possibly someone could ask him to not do it
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I'm also under the impression that's not a possibility
<slickymasterWork> but he does seem to be all over the place
<brainwash> the project idea is not bad, but adding all these "easy" to fix bugs does not seem to help much
<brainwash> most of our bugs are not trivial or require packaging skills
<elfy> can we not just untag them? 
<elfy> didn't we have this conversation with him a while back? 
<slickymasterWork> wasn't that ^^^ about is fixation with emoticons in m/l instead elfy?
<elfy> no pretty sure we did something re our bugs
<elfy> brainwash: do you remember that? 
<knome> i vaguely remember something like that
<knome> wasn't it about the black background bug?
<knome> ochosi, are there some bugs in the bugs blueprint that you aren't planning to fix?
<knome>  [xubuntu-qa] Create rolling base release note wiki: INPROGRESS
<knome> elfy, can't that considered to be done?
<knome>  [xubuntu-qa] Exploratory testing information to testers via ML: INPROGRESS
<knome> elfy, what's the status of that? since we only have a few days left, is it realistic that it's actually just postponed?
<ochosi> knome: yes, there are, i guess i should go over them with bluesabre to decide what to unlink
<knome> elfy, or do you consider it done?
<knome> ochosi, fwiw, you can link them to the umbrella blueprint, and they won't show up at status.u.c
<knome> ochosi, that way you can still keep a list of things that you want to move onto the next cycle
<ochosi> yeah, i'll still discuss this with him first
<knome>  [xubuntu-qa] Review and correct testcase as required (re-check Xfce4.12): INPROGRESS
<ochosi> but good to know
<knome> elfy, that?
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe we can talk about the remaining open bugreports attached to our v-bugs blueprint sometime on the weekend and move those we won't fix somewhere else
<knome> pleia2, if you want to print the first batch of flyers on a print shop, you can do that with the current files already... the thing i need to iron out is related to home printers without FB-modes
<knome> ochosi, should probably unlink invalid ones
<knome> looks like it's again around 10% that didn't get done
<ochosi> some of those are upstream bugs that won't get easy fixes
<ochosi> i'm actually quite happy with what we accomplished this cycle
<knome> sure, i was referring to the whole lot of blueprints, not bugs only
<elfy> knome: could possibly have been tghe black screen thing 
<mrkramps> a wekk or something ago, i reported keyboard media keys not being recognised on my system â¦ well, i shoud not have diabled them, so â¦ just forget about it
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> it happens
<mrkramps> xinput lists the media keys as seperated device in pointers AND keyboard and i incidentely disabled them in mouse and touchpad setting â¦ just took me some days to find aut :S
<slickymaster> okie doke brainwash, done
<bluesabre> ochosi: here only briefly, but I will probably be around for a bit tomorrow
<Unit193> Oki.
<bluesabre> !info xfdesktop4 trusty
<ubottu> xfdesktop4 (source: xfdesktop4): xfce desktop background, icons and root menu manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.11.8-0ubuntu0.1 (trusty), package size 134 kB, installed size 545 kB
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, all sources seem to indicate that 4.11.8 is still rolled out to everyone in trusty, and yes, it would probably be good to get them a fix
<Unit193> !info xfdesktop4 trusty-updates
<ubottu> 'trusty-updates' is not a valid distribution: extras, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed
<Unit193> !info xfdesktop4 trusty-proposed
<ubottu> Package xfdesktop4 does not exist in trusty-proposed
<bluesabre> the bot seems to look at -updates
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty-updates/xfdesktop4
<bluesabre> vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/xfdesktop4
<brainwash> bluesabre: is it worth the effort? could be yet another package which gets stuck in -proposed for weeks/months
<bluesabre> trusty is supported for quite a bit longer than that, so yeah
<bluesabre> crashes are annoying
<Unit193> Wait, anyone cares about trusty?
<brainwash> I think it's a silent crash, or not visible due to the crash recovery mechanism of xfce4-session
 * bluesabre does
 * slickymaster also
<Unit193> upstart*
<brainwash> some trusty users may be annoyed by the icon reset regression, and there is a patch available upstream (or 4.12.1)
<bluesabre> let's gauge how bad it is and determine what we want to backport
<bluesabre> I gotta run now, bbabl
<brainwash> it mainly affects people with many desktop icons and/or slow systems
<brainwash> so, it's bad
<brainwash> bluesabre: a good start would be to pick the patches and let affected users test it, then got for the SRU
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-11
<drc> clear
<Unit193> We're losing him, we're losing him!  Someone get the paddles!
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<bluesabre> morning elfy
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<ochosi> bluesabre: sorry, was out all day
<ochosi> bluesabre: will be back a bit later though
<Unit193> xfdashboard_0.4.0-0ubuntu1.dsc stable pushed, to PPA.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-12
<bluesabre> hey ochosi, was offline all day myself (reinstalling on laptop, reconfiguring home server)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess it's a sane thing to do every once in a while, being out all day ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm around today btw
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, but I'm not :(
<bluesabre> gotta run again in a bit
<bluesabre> but you can ping me for things to review
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> enjoy your sunday and ttyl!
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> ochosi: Hiiii. ;)
<ochosi> hey Unit193 
<ochosi> why the funny greeting? did i miss something again?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-11
<Unit193> ...Wow.
<bluesabre> thats unexpected
<pavlushka> gedit opens the 2nd file as 2nd tab in the same window but mousepad has tab support but opens the 2nd file in a new window.
<flocculant> PaulW2U: if you get chance could you apport-collect 1568604 that should grab info for that mouse missing bug :)
<flocculant> can't confirm that - perhaps affects laptops 
<flocculant> I changed package to power manager - not sure it's right, but closer than Ubuntu 
<flocculant> if it IS power manager perhaps it's because I'm using the staging one rather than repo version 
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1568604 - hopefully xfpm is the right package
<ubottu> bug 1568604 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 16.04 beta looses mouse cursor when returning from sleep" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<flocculant> that's all a bit much thinking for 1 cup of tea and not awake ... 
<flocculant> sigh - not got staging one at all - I've got the daily :)
<pavlushka> flocculant: I think that bug is affecting me too.
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> pavlushka: re mousepad - it's not gedit, if you want more than one file in an instance - drag and drop works, personally it works for me that way - I have more than 1 workspace - I often have mousepad open on both so if it auto opened in one I would be back and forth in workspaces looking for it 
<flocculant> bbl
<pavlushka> copy that
<ali1234> gedit is actually desktop aware
<ali1234> it opens files in the window on the current desktop if you have more than one
<ali1234> and if you have no window on the current desktop, it opens one
<ali1234> lately i've been using xed. it has all the features of gedit without the silly user interface (it looks almost identical to mousepad)
<ali1234> i do miss the tab/space conversion feature in mousepad though
<pavlushka> copy that too
<ochosi> knome: just so you know, i get those rename-crash bugs in thunar in 15.10 too. had no time to dig into that further, but i guess we're looking at something with a history of not working properly anymore
<ali1234> thunar crashes constantly for me in 15.10. the crash is triggered by inotify events, so rename, create, delete files or directories
<ali1234> and whether you do it in thunar, or just have thunar open on a directory with files that are changing
<ali1234> there are exactly two non-tx patches on thunar git since 1.6.10 and looks like either of them could fix it. i'll try it
<ochosi> ali1234: thanks, that'd be great!
<bluesabre> flocculant: Corsac saw that bug a little while back and determined that it's related to Intel... while I couldn't find a bug number, I did find the comment
<bluesabre> 2016-03-16 12:12:20	Corsac	so indeed, it looks intel related: disable SNA or switching to modesetting fixes the issue
<bluesabre> ali1234: let me know if you find a suitable fix... we have on in -staging that doesn't seem to fully resolve it
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - so I can assume it is xfpm? 
<bluesabre> actually, closer to light-locker
<bluesabre> 2016-03-16 08:35:14	Corsac	a simple vt-switch is not enough to trigger it, but dm-tool switch-to-greeter
<bluesabre> so lightdm/light-locker/intel
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just wasn't sure what package it wanted - but WAS sure it wasn't Ubuntu :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll get the laptop out of the box and install to it - if it's intel then I guess I'll be able to confirm
<flocculant> and do the apport collect stuff
<bluesabre> flocculant: though, the laptop the bug report shows has an nvidia graphics card on the product page, so might need to confirm with the reporter as well http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w540/#tab-tech_specs
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack
<bluesabre> but inevitably, he's probably coming back from sleep -> light-locker -> lightdm -> lightdm-gtk-greeter
<flocculant> bluesabre: but PaulW2U confirmed on Toshiba C-50B which apparently IntelÂ® HD Graphics 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll leave it at light-locker for the moment :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - can confirm that disappearing cursor bug - regardless of xfpm version
<flocculant> left a note for reporter to confirm graphics and run apport-collect
<flocculant> if I see nothing from them by tomorrow I'll report it myself and mark the other as a dupe
<flocculant> didn't know only reporter could do that - guess it makes sense logically :)
<PaulW2U> flocculant: will do when I get home 
<flocculant> PaulW2U: seems that only the reporter is able to do so
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, If I remember that particular laptop has a quadro gpu in it.. its quite a powerful workstation lappy
<flocculant> mmm
<akxwi-dave> i've got a lenovo with 16.04 on it at home.. it has an dual intel/nvidia so will test that bug at home later as well
<flocculant> I'd expect you to find it 
<akxwi-dave> must be honest, dont usually use suspen/sleep..too many probs over the years with it.. :-)
<flocculant> I rarely use laptop ... and desktop only takes a few seconds to boot anyway 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so - reporter has installed nvidia driver (one of those dual graphic jobs) and no longer sees the problem - left the bug as confirmed for the moment rather than marking it
<flocculant> do we want this reported from someone(or thing) that still has the issue ? 
<PaulW2U> flocculant: still a problem here after installing all of today's updates, rebooting and then suspending
<PaulW2U> but it's not a problem using the latest ISO, fully updating and then suspending
<PaulW2U> ^^ in a live session
<knome> flocculant, if you are around and want to chime in, #canonical-sysadmin 
<flocculant> did
<knome> saw
<flocculant> see
<flocculant> knome: you still not able to login? 
<knome> nope
<knome> flocculant, you could try logging me out
<flocculant> knome: you are now logged out
<knome> cheers, let's see...
<knome> mmh, nope
<flocculant> knome: what if remove your openid string so it has to redo that? 
<knome> i don't even get so far this time again
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> just wonder if removing that string would help
<knome> well
<knome> i've logged out of ubuntu one several times in the span of these days
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> do we actually want something published today btw? 
<knome> yep
<knome> the mugshot article
<flocculant> you want me to do that now? 
<knome> that works
<flocculant> I see it's been edited since last time I looked
<knome> mhm, and i can react immediately if it's completely borked
<flocculant> ok - doing so now :)
 * knome 's finger is on the button
<flocculant> published
<knome> looks good
<knome> tweeting
<flocculant> okey doke :)
<flocculant> that at least is easy to accomplish :p
<knome> yep
<knome> and tweeted
<knome> pleia2, ^ if you can G+ and FB when around
<pleia2> done
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> hey pleia2 :)
<pleia2> nope nope nope
<pleia2> I mean, hi :) I am going back to work now
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, Just ran the suspend mouse disappear test both with nvidia drivers and nouveau drivers.. Mouse pointer stays on screen and works fine..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks - so definitely appearing to be as suspected - intel :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
<akxwi-dave> I'll i'll confirm that in a min  this machine has an intel gpu on the cpu as well I'll disable the nvidia.. give me a few mins
<flocculant> \o/
<akxwi-dave> yep.. problem is with intel...
<flocculant> added to release note 
<PaulW2U> Samsung R-620 with ATI graphics is ok
<flocculant> PaulW2U: excellent - thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: this bug perhaps > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135
<ubottu> Debian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> and bug 1297144 which is an oldy but goody - even has ochosi in there :)
<ubottu> bug 1297144 in xorg (Ubuntu) "[Lenovo ThinkPad X230] Invisible cursor after resume from suspend" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297144
<zequence> How to preview ubiquity slideshows, now again, anyone?
<zequence> knome: Maybe you know?
<flocculant> zequence: I think when you've got the branch locally it's ./testsh<tab> flavour 
<flocculant> can't remember the exact wording in there as I tab complete :)
<zequence> Ah, right. Let me try to find it
<flocculant> ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<flocculant> here
<zequence> Right under my nose. Thanks flocculant!
<flocculant> welcome :)
<flocculant> knome: best have a backup plan to get the release announcement done - like someone other than you :p
<flocculant> and not me ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> backup plan is to force IS let us have "local" login
<flocculant> :)
<Nairwolf> knome: what is IS ? 
<knome> canonical internet services
<Nairwolf> ok, I see
<knome> Nairwolf, are you saying you are volunteering to be in touch with them if other things fail?
<knome> :P
<flocculant> \o/
<Nairwolf> no, sorry ^^
<flocculant> oh boo
<flocculant> :p
<Nairwolf> but why do you think something will fail ? 
<flocculant> experience ;)
<knome> because something is failing now.
<Nairwolf> oh...
<Nairwolf> best luck for that !
<flocculant> knome: do we want a wallpaper article? 
<knome> flocculant, yep
<knome> flocculant, either one or two
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: a lot to squeeze into 9 days ;)
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> not the writing - but publishing :p
<knome> yep
<flocculant> cloud/other and wallpaper still to write - does that match what you think? 
<knome> yep
<knome> well, cloud is almost there
<knome> probably only need some intro and outro babble
<flocculant> on pad 
<flocculant> nothing on wordpress
<knome> yep
<knome> same with other
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> I'll get cloud started now
<knome> if everything else fails, i'll disable openid logins for staging too, then prepare the article for you in wp format there
<flocculant> oh ok 
<knome> so no worries about that
<flocculant> that makes sense 
<flocculant> just shout if you need something - wallpaper pad at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-wallpaper
<knome> ta, i wil
<knome> will too
<knome> if i can log in at some point..
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well if necessary we can do something else - google doc if we have to for instance
<knome> yep
<flocculant> I'll start the wallpaper one - at least get some bones there
<flocculant> long night last - flagging a bit now ;)
<flocculant> bones it was - night all :)
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<bluesabre> flocculant, PaulW2U, akxwi-dave: thanks a bunch!
<knome> flocculant, some edits done at https://xubuntu.org/?p=3830&preview=true (yes, i could finally log in.. at least once)
<knome> flocculant, also, cloud article is now up at https://xubuntu.org/?p=3890&preview=true, so all edits there, please :)
<knome> bluesabre, hullo?
<bluesabre> knome: hi
<knome> bluesabre, do we already know if some of the bugs are without doubt going to be postponed for .1?
<bluesabre> knome: probably most bugs if they're not already resolved
<knome> hah, okay
<knome> http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/s=todo,inprogress,blocked+sort=assignee+sortdir=asc
<knome> anything from -dev or you that you might be able to fix?
<bluesabre> knome: I'll take a look... can postpone the doc templates at this point
<knome> yeah, i was thinking about setting up the -1604-point-1 blueprint tomorrow or sth
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I'll see about the appstream things, not many there, but a few can't be fixed just because they're missing icons
<knome> like what is?
<bluesabre> xfce4-notifyd has a single (old icon) that is 48px, and appstream min is 64px
<knome> ah
<bluesabre> xfce4-help uses the generic help icon, which is reserved for menus, and not 64px
<knome> but could we use that as an appicon too?
<knome> or do we need a specific one?
<bluesabre> it's not us - needs to be either in the package, adwaita icon theme, or humanity icon theme
<knome> ...but we can change the pkg?
<bluesabre> sure, we can stick our icon in there, but that's not very upstream
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> same for xfce4-settings
<bluesabre> The icon 'preferences-desktop-peripherals' was not found in the archive.
<bluesabre> generic menu icon
<knome> sigh for stupid requirements
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> or non-svg themes, or non-svg upstream application icons
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> something that looks funny is better than nothing
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> in that case, suppose I could just scale up the 48px icon
<knome> ugh
<bluesabre> not great, but heyyy
<knome> well
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> i was thinking we could draw new icons
<knome> but it would not be very upstream as you said :P
<bluesabre> but we'd probably want to do it tango-style? what should xfce use as a basis going forward since tango is dead and elementary is elementary?
<knome> not the one deciding about xfce visual future
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> more dead than I thought
<bluesabre> http://tango.freedesktop.org/
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> suppose its hard to be modular and maintain a brand identity
<bluesabre> maybe I'll bug ochosi about that to help get some new guidelines together
<knome> yeah
<knome> maybe after 16.04...
<bluesabre> but yeah, I'll work on cleaning some of these things up a bit later
<knome> ta
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> back tomorrow, good night
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-12
<flocculant> ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.04 - amd64 - installer crashed
<flocculant> Unit193: I'll keep trying when they turn up :)
<flocculant> knome: ack re articles - glad you've managed to login in at least once :)
<Unit193> Bah, well thanks for trying at least.
<knome> was able to log in on the first try now as well..
<knome> ...and second time
<bluesabre> Unit193: if you want to play with breaks/replaces, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1569281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569281 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Appstream xml is stored in wrong package" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> my quick attempts this morning have failed, but I'm probably just missing something small
<flocculant> like a 64px icon :p
<flocculant> knome: meh - stupid mailman message size - got a message in moderation 
<flocculant> or anyone else who happens to have the key to the cupboard :p
<Unit193> flocculant: You want to re-send without the image?  I can allow if not.
<flocculant> guess so :p
<flocculant> stupid mailman ... 
<flocculant> Unit193: delete the one that's too big for mailman but ok for elsewhere :D
<flocculant> thanks 
<Unit193> Wilco.
<flocculant> Johnson
<pleia2> flocculant: put the RC testing request on g+/fb/twitter
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<pleia2> thanks for all your work tracking this all through the cycle, I know how tedious this job is, but important for keeping us all on track
<flocculant> I don't often feel like you're all children who need the naughty step - so everything seems to be working :p
<Nairwolf> hi guys, how are you ? I would like to ask you if the xubuntu wiki on wiki.ubuntu.com will be dropped and replaced by wiki.xubuntu.org ? 
<Nairwolf> Or will you use both in the same time ? 
<pleia2> we've moved the content we can to wiki.xubuntu.org, we likely won't delete the one on wiki.u.c completely since a lot of thinks link there
<pleia2> afaik we still can't move the meeting agenda because we use includes there that we haven't quite sorted out on w.x.o
<pleia2> s/thinks/things
<Unit193> Also the output from meetingology doesn't work directly.
<pleia2> yeah, it's in moin syntax, not doku
<Nairwolf> ok, so you will still use both, but you will try to use w.x.o in most of cases ? Okay, nice ! 
<Unit193> Isn't Doku close to Mediawiki?  It's already got one for that.
<pleia2> Unit193: they're all close ;)
<Unit193> Well... Real close then. :P
<pavlushka> Hello every one!
<davmor2> pavlushka: hello
<flocculant> davmor2: !!!
<flocculant> hi :p
<flocculant> hello pavlushka 
<pavlushka> Hello flocculant !
<pavlushka> Hello davmor2!
<pavlushka> I filed a bug #1567516 that hasn't been confirmed and hasn't marked duplicate but that is fixed now as I am not experiencing now after update
<ubottu> bug 1567516 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "The default indicators set has a blank button." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567516
<pavlushka> I've even added a sceenshot as a visual proof.
<flocculant> so it's not a bug? 
<pavlushka> might be it was good to discuss every bug about 16.04 here so that you can confirm, it happened once.
<pavlushka> that you confirmed parole bug.
<pavlushka> flocculant: I dont know, you tell me.
<flocculant> ...
<flocculant> pavlushka: YOU said "I am not experiencing now after update"
<pavlushka> yes
<flocculant> ok - so if you aren't seeing it after an update in a dev version then we can mark it invalid or something
<pavlushka> if you think it should be , then you must, you guys are dev.
<pavlushka> I have no opinion but kinda confused.
<flocculant> pavlushka: not sure what's confusing
<flocculant> you said something was a bug - then you don't see it 
<flocculant> if it's been fixed because of an update - good
<flocculant> but you can't add what's fixed it
<flocculant> we can mark it as not a bug 
<pavlushka> yes, and ok , on your words.
<flocculant> or just ignore it and in time it will get marked (can't remember how off hand) 
<flocculant> so I think what I'm going to do is just ignore it - even if it IS a bug - it's not something that Xubuntu has control over - so we would have to wait for someone else to deal with it
<pavlushka> flocculant: if you think so. but next time I must knock about bug here,
<flocculant> pavlushka: if it's something we can help with yes 
<pavlushka> well, that is to find out.
<flocculant> not every package that Xubuntu includes is something that the Xubuntu team is involved in
<flocculant> in fact most are not
<pavlushka> hmm, copy.
<flocculant> <pavlushka> might be it was good to discuss every bug about 16.04 here so that you can confirm, it happened once.
<flocculant> ^^ for instance isn't the case completely
<flocculant> I get bugs with things I use - if it is not something that is under our control - I take it elsewhere
<pavlushka> flocculant: sorry, you are getting over my head, I am to much stupid to understand that.
<pavlushka> *too much
<flocculant> pavlushka: ok I'll try and simplify what I mean by that
<flocculant> I report bugs in things like clementine and hexchat - I don't talk about them here - we have no control and no interest as a team
<flocculant> some things like gnome software - we use - we don't fix - so I go talk about them where they *can* be
<flocculant> does that make sense? 
<Unit193> Things still on my list: Indicators using massive amounts of CPU, ubiquity crashing.
<flocculant> really? 
<pavlushka> Yes flocculant , I am sure about hexchat and there is a #hexchat for that but when I am not sure, may be you people can make me sure.
<flocculant> Unit193: ind's that is ? 
<flocculant> pavlushka: then perhaps if you're not sure - ask in -offtopic if it's something we're interested in first :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Not made much comment on it because it's only reproduced on one Xenial install, so just stopped using indicators there and shruged.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not noticed anything like that - or reports 
<pavlushka> flocculant: copy that. but once you and knome told me that it should be asked here first too and then if it's offtopic, we will move there.
<flocculant> I've changed my mind
<pavlushka> lol, ok
<flocculant> pavlushka: between now and next Thursday I am going to be interested in pretty much one thing only
<flocculant> testing iso's
<pavlushka> I've seen your mail.
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah, with the sound indicator or pulseaudio it's far worse, but xfce4-indicator-plugin is bad enough by itself.  Anywho, only seen it in one of 3 Xenial installs, so filed it under voodoo.
<flocculant> \o/
<pavlushka> ^
<flocculant> definitely not seen anything like that with pa indicator
<pavlushka> and Hi Unit193 !
<Unit193> Hallo.
<pavlushka> ola!
<flocculant> pavlushka: this is a good case - pulse audio control - we use that - we do some things with it - but I have a bug where a webcam interferes with it - when you have the specific sound card I have - so I took that bug upstream 
<pavlushka> flocculant: can you tell me a little more about "when you have the specific sound card I have - so I took that bug upstream"?
<flocculant> I had a bug, you'd see it if you had a webcam plugged in with usb AND the soundcard I have - different soundcard - no bug - so  I reported it upstream, where someone looked, confirmed it, eventually the fix will land there - and because it's upstream everyone will get the benefit
<pavlushka> flocculant: sorry for the bother, what do you mean by upstream, tell me once and I will never ask you again.
<flocculant> xfce is upstream to xubuntu
<flocculant> debian is upstream to ubuntu 
<flocculant> and us via us being based on ubuntu
<flocculant> sih
<flocculant> ish
<pavlushka> wow, I didn't know that,
<flocculant> so I went and reported the bug somewhere else
<flocculant> that'll have to do now - I'm in the middle of a bunch of other stuff
<pavlushka> hmm, copy that, I've seen your bug conversation about hexchat though.
<flocculant> knome: worked a bit on the wallpaper pad thingy
<Nairwolf> hi everyone, hi flocculant ;) Thank you for your answer and your patience ;)
<flocculant> hi Nairwolf 
<Nairwolf> I hope the release will be good. 
<Nairwolf> After the final release, I will try the upgrade for myself with a backup computer by cloning my actual configuration (I have some ppa), and if it works, I will do it for my 'real used' computer. I've understood that upgrading tests isn't for now, but I will notice you the result. 
<Nairwolf> For this week, I should be able to test some isos. 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: generally the upgrade isn't offered immediately, so nice to get upgrade tests, but iso testing is more important right now
<Nairwolf> Yes, I understand perfectly. And as I said, it's for my personal use case, and I will do it *after* the release. Iso testing will be my concern also this week ;)
<Nairwolf> I've discovered Xubuntu (and linux world) with 14.04 two years ago, that's why I'm asking so much question about upgrade, because it will be the first time I will do that, and the first time I'm waiting a LTS release. 
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> bluesabre, just noticed today that https://translations.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch wasn't yet translated into pt
<slickymaster> it is now ;)
<knome> pleia2, helllooo
<knome> pleia2, social media time
<knome> pleia2, https://xubuntu.org/news/my-media-manager-cloud/ is out
<knome> ^ thanks for all contributing
<pleia2> k
<knome> pleia2, and thanks for enduring with me
<pleia2> knome: thanks for doing all the work, sorry I'm so snowed under over here
<knome> no problem
<knome> easy now that most of the stuff is written
<knome> (and i can log in to wordpress sites)
<pleia2> g+ and fb done
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> oh good, logins are working again
<knome> yeah, looks like they are
<pleia2> was having trouble with fridge last night
<knome> no problems today morning or evening
<pleia2> great
<knome> so
<knome> one more article tomorrow
<knome> then thursday is free from articles
<knome> then another on friday
<knome> and the final one on tuesday
<knome> for these series, that is
<knome> of course we need other stuff
<pleia2> woo
<Unit193> cyphermox: I don't suppose LP 1549085 and https://bitbucket.org/snippets/unit193/ERyrq/ubiquity-crash are one and the same, are they?  That'd be pretty handy, though they crash at different plugins. :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1549085 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu 16.04 daily Feb 23 ubiquity return 1 after choosing locale (zh_CN) & prompt for keyboard settings , then crash" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549085
<knome> bluesabre, in xenial, which wallpapers are installed by default?
<knome> new contest winners and our own stuff
<knome> or old contest winners too?
<bluesabre> knome: just the old for new installs, both for old installs
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> just the new
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> oki
<slickymaster> bluesabre â http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/12/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t20:41
<bluesabre> slickymaster: yeah, missed it, and translation deadline is now gone
<knome> slickymaster, ahahahahah!
<slickymaster> my fault anyway
<knome> slickymaster, add that to the wiki so you'll remember next time
<slickymaster> just noticed it today
<slickymaster> ok
<krytarik> bluesabre: That doesn't mean you can't upload it still though.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-13
<cyphermox> Unit193: no, not the same
<cyphermox> I'm also really curious how you get to end up with permission denied errors -- please file a bug and mention exactly what language/keyboard/timezone you use
<Unit193> Very carefully?  English, en_US, EST/EDT.  Nothing abnormal in the selection, just the ISO.  Will look into a bug.
<flocculant> knome: cheers - checked that out - found the deliberate typo and fixed it too :)
<knome> :D
<flocculant> that's all at least there now then I believe
<knome> mmh
<knome> so
<knome> i have a plan
<knome> so instead of the current schedule
<flocculant> so do I
<knome> which leaves tomorrow clear
<knome> can we publish something tomorrow too?
<knome> or do you want to keep that day clear?
<flocculant> panels today? 
<knome> yep
<knome> then the other media manager tomorrow
<knome> and wallpaper on friday
<flocculant> wfm
<knome> then the winner announcement on tuesday
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> yeah, good
<flocculant> works for me
<flocculant> jjfrv8: did you actually see lo with the wrong icons in the iso? I don't 
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> knome: qt always catches me out - more or less installed first thing on any of my installs - added info to the tomahawk stanza :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: agreed, we need a strategy how to get meaningful appstream icons for xfce
<bluesabre> flocculant: updated the release notes, dropped mugshot and blueman bugs that were fixed
<knome_> flocculant, thanks
<bluesabre> knome: perhaps we should hide the imagemagick entries? do they work under any circumstance?
<knome> bluesabre, they should be hidden
<knome> bluesabre, i don't think they are very useful even if they "work"
<bluesabre> cool, I'll plan on hiding them with xubuntu-default-settings then
<knome> bluesabre, they can be more useful when right-clicking an image, then showing stuff in the imagemagick "display"
<knome> but even then it's a bit moot for us since we have ristretto
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> I'll just "NoDisplay=true" them
<knome> ack
<knome> will you hide the website/contribute items too ? :P
<bluesabre> do we want to hide those?
<knome> yes indeed
<bluesabre> flocculant: I can't seem to reproduce this https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1529469
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1529469 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "State of "Hide from menus" is not saved upon application restart" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> knome: why? We put them there, do we no longer want them in the menu?
<knome> we are now linking to them in the documentation startpage
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> want to create a bug report for that?
<knome> there is one
<bluesabre> where?
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> let me dig that up for you
<knome> ...from the tracker
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1537742
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1537742 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) ""Contribute to Xubuntu" and "Xubuntu Website" menu items on the desktop right-click menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> aha
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> somehow missed that, was I pinged?
<bluesabre> (probably)
<knome> i'm pretty sure
<knome> it's ok
<knome> ...as long as you land the fix before the release >:D
<bluesabre> >.<
<bluesabre> wife is back from chicago now... she might be upset when I say that I am going to work on xubuntu all night :D
<knome> hahah
<bluesabre> "it's for... the users!"
<knome> "but you were in chicago too when i wanted to be with you!"
<bluesabre> heh, I might use that
<knome> haha
<knome> ok, bbl again
<flocculant> bluesabre: neither can I now - removed it
<flocculant> thanks for changing release note too :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<bluesabre> I *might* have a new xubuntu-default-settings uploaded this morning removing the imagemagick and contribute/website launchers
<bluesabre> working on this now
<flocculant> ok :)
<flocculant> don't do it later - wife's back from chicago  :p
<bluesabre> :P
<flocculant> got 16.10 bug blueprint done - I'll move the suspend thing 
<bluesabre> nice!
<flocculant> so if there are more confirmed but not done - somewhere to move them and make knome stop looking at the burndown :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1513590 is still on the list - but I thought this was actually behaviour - in which case it can be invalid'd
<ubottu> bug 1513590 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "unable to delete items in menulibre" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513590
<flocculant> and bug 1515184 must have been fixed amongst others - I'd already asked for confirmation and marked incomplete a week or so back
<ubottu> bug 1515184 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Crash when selecting a category in a new entry" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515184
<flocculant> bbl
<jjfrv8> flocculant, aye, noticed it right away: http://i.imgur.com/9YIhUeU.png
<Unit193> bluesabre: You removed jockey too when you removed xds-potfiles.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: oh crud
<flocculant> that's why I asked - that bug you linked was about breeze being the default - hence me asking 
<flocculant> seems we've now got galaxy :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.html 3.9.8 is out.
<Unit193> (Entirely irrelevant, but shhhush.)
<flocculant> bah and humbug
<flocculant> jjfrv8: reporting new bug - different issue 
<flocculant> bug 1569968 needs to be marked as High I would think ;)
<ubottu> bug 1569968 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice in Xubuntu should use Elementary as default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569968
<flocculant> bluesabre: just in case you don't read the whole log - read that ^^ :)
<Nairwolf> hi everyone ;) 
<Nairwolf> I've noticed something at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/getting-started.html
<Nairwolf> tracker.xubuntu.org doesn't seem to work. Are you sure you wanted to have this link ? 
<flocculant> nope - it's different now
<Nairwolf> ok, so what is the new link ? 
<flocculant> dev.xubuntu.org
<Nairwolf> how can I edit ? 
<Nairwolf> tell me one, and I will remember how to do, flocculant ;)
<Nairwolf> tell me once.
<Unit193> bzr lp:xubuntu-docs
<Nairwolf> thanks
<flocculant> but not this time ... 
<flocculant> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/fixlink/+merge/291795
<Unit193> Hah.  Also may want to check current code before poking/looking into things.
<Nairwolf> ok ;)
<Nairwolf> you're so fast flocculant !
<flocculant> didn't know you were going to want to do it - so rather than it get forgotten :)
<Unit193> I have some crap pending, but has to wait for y to open.
<Unit193> Yawning Yak.
<flocculant> for cont docs? 
<Unit193> Build stuff.
<flocculant> I think they should 16.10.D until october then lost the .D
<flocculant> names are boring now :)
<drc> Now?
<flocculant> drc: yea - can't think of a good Y name ;)
<Unit193> Even if you could, he wouldn't use it.
 * drc doesn't want to sound too heretical, but thought they were silly from the beginning 
<Unit193> Meh, Debian uses them too.  Though I would like a symlink from 'develop' or something to use in the changelog. :P
<flocculant> drc doesn't 
<drc> can't remember them
<pavlushka> Hello everyone!
<pavlushka> flocculant: I installed 32bit and 64bit of todays iso's, so far its working.
<flocculant> PaulW2U: just so you know - I've demoted the image test on the tracker to optional now that we're at the stage where there should be enough other tests going on
<flocculant> it was only really as stop-gap if they got autotests on flavours going 
<flocculant> pavlushka: that's nice - but at this point in the cycle - if it's not on the tracker then I won't know about it 
<flocculant> nor will I remember
<flocculant> nor do I want to be told daily 
<flocculant> I check the tracker - that's what I'm interested in ;)
<Unit193> Oh right... Apport crashes when you try to report.  That's why I didn't file anything.
<flocculant> with your iso? 
<Unit193> Yeah, but only when ubiquity launched it. :P
<Unit193> I filed that bug no problem, there's a number somwhere.
<pavlushka> flocculant: bug 1569968 happens to me too.
<ubottu> bug 1569968 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice in Xubuntu should use Elementary as installation default not just live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569968
<Unit193> No crap.
<pavlushka> Unit193: sorry, have I said anything wrong?
<flocculant> pavlushka: I know - I could have told you before - it's going to happen to everyone using a 16.04 xubuntu iso 
<Unit193> I can fix that. :3
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: LP 1557739 I didn't just ignore it, though I did forget that I'd filed it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1557739 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-bug crashed with termios.error in raw_input_char(): (25, 'Inappropriate ioctl for device')" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557739
<pavlushka> :)
<flocculant> Unit193: probably would have me too'd it :)
<Unit193> flocculant: I made a special spin of Core with firefox last night/this morning so I could do stuff like that more easily. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I know that I tried to 'boot core - install firefox - install core - use apport' last but one time - but it still just failed
<flocculant> ie apport wandering off into the blue
<Unit193> ...That is fantastic, the weird indicator crap goes away if I change themes.
<Unit193> Right, so same theme on two different computers, both Xenial, and only one shows the problem?
<drc> different video card/driver?
<Unit193> Yeah, wouldn't think that'd do it, but suppose weirder things..
<drc> I always start with the blatently obvious...'cause if I don't it always comes back to bite me in the....
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/253668619/ubiquity_2.21.57_source.changes
<Nairwolf> flocculant: it's not possible to make a screenshot when you're opening something from the panel ? 
<Unit193> Set a delay.
<flocculant> yes it is :) you just have to screenshot whole window - start it then delay it for x seconds
<Nairwolf> I'm actualy running with the daily 16.04, I've found it's really difficult to determine the power of wifi network, and I wanted to show you that with a screenshot 
<Nairwolf> oh, ok
<knome> pleia2, social media time!
<Nairwolf> no, it's not obvius. How can I start a delay ? 
<ochosi> Nairwolf: the signal quality of wifi is shown with icons used by nm-applet, i don't think that there's a lot we can do about that
<ochosi> and evening everyone
<Nairwolf> hi ochosi
 * flocculant suspects knome and ochosi are the same person - just pretending to show up at the same time
<ochosi> knome: darn, he made us!
<flocculant> oh no I didn't
<knome> huh
<knome> :P
<flocculant> that'd be your parents - just the one set :p
<knome> pleia2, https://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-panel-layouts/ out and tweeted
<flocculant> knome: did you double check my recent changes to that? 
<knome> NO
<knome> oops
<knome> :P
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> i'm sure they are good
<flocculant> made up as well :D
<flocculant> ochosi: you probably didn't see Sean's ping from me ... not going to like it ... 
<flocculant> bug 1569968
<ubottu> bug 1569968 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice in Xubuntu should use Elementary as installation default not just live session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569968
<Nairwolf> ochosi: Do you think it deserve to report a bug ? Look this screenshot : https://i.imgur.com/sFv0dw0.png
<Nairwolf> I can't really distincte the power level...
<ochosi> Nairwolf: is that a clean install and did you not change anything there?
<flocculant> Nairwolf: do you mean in the drop down menu? 
<ochosi> Nairwolf: it looks to me as though you fiddled with the icon theme setting, by default it should look ok
<Nairwolf> yes, it's a clean install
<Nairwolf> with the last daily
<Nairwolf> and I don't have change anything...
<Nairwolf> it's with real hardware
<Nairwolf> flocculant: Yes, when you choose a wi-fi network. You can't really distinguish the level of wifi power. 
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll boot up my laptop from the other day
<flocculant> while you facepalm at the lo bug 
<ochosi> weird, those icons come from humanity
<ochosi> do we really have that installed?
<flocculant> yup
<Nairwolf> by the way. Can I have write access to the wiki in order to add my name and my computer to this list :http://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/teamhardware ?
<Unit193> I missed that page.
<ochosi> flocculant: what? what pulls in humanity?
<flocculant> ochosi: wants to remove ubuntu-mono* and add adwaita-icon-theme-full if I purge humanity
<flocculant> Nairwolf: knome has keys to there
<ochosi> great. packaging hell
<flocculant> Unit193: it's the old wiki one moved to our one
<ochosi> either way, i can't reproduce this right now because my vbox doesn't have wifi enabledd
<flocculant> ochosi: I just grabbed a scrrenshot from here 
<ochosi> yes..?
 * ochosi waits patiently
<Nairwolf> guys look this also : https://i.imgur.com/hDFgKkJ.png
<Nairwolf> I promise I don't have touch anything
 * flocculant will just purge humanity and do another one
<Nairwolf> elementary Xfce darker was already selected
<Nairwolf> And the web icon for Adwaita seems weird
<ochosi> yeah, but that's adwaita's problem
<knome> Nairwolf, PM me your email and preferred nick and username and i'll create an account for you,
<ochosi> elementary-xfce-darker is the default theme, so that's ok
<ochosi> flocculant: you might also have to throw away the ubuntu-mono icon themes btw
<ochosi> and again, no idea why we need those
<ochosi> probably should've dropped adwaita-full then
<Nairwolf> ochosi: okay for elementary-xfce-darker, but i've understood what I have with Wi-Fi power is from humanity theme...
<Nairwolf> Do you advise me to file a report, guys ? 
<Nairwolf> Do you want I retry a fresh install ? (Il will not be done tonight)
<ochosi> Nairwolf: yes, it's possible that nm-applet changed their icon names and elementary-xfce doesn't include the new names yet
<ochosi> just wait a few mins until i get flocculant's screenshots
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> ochosi: be right with you 
<Nairwolf> ok, I think I will file the bug tomorrow...
<Nairwolf> I need to go to bed soon...
<pavlushka> good night guys!
<flocculant> ochosi: sorry - seems I lost connection - did you get those screenshot links? 
<ochosi_> flocculant: nope
<flocculant> ochosi: so - this is default http://imgur.com/EinxNRu
<flocculant> this is with human purging and whatever it wanted, then a logout and in - http://imgur.com/cMOpqBS
<ochosi_> thanks. so all is good and Nairwolf's bug doesn't affect you
<ochosi_> hence i presume it doesn't affect clean installs
<flocculant> I'd guess not - that install was really recent
<flocculant> not sure exactly how recent - just booted it to one of the older ones to see LO there
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> seems that LO had galaxy there on install
 * flocculant failed to notice that
<flocculant> ochosi_: that install is 2 days old btw
<Nairwolf> ochosi_: I'm not sure to understand
<Nairwolf> my install was really really recent
<Nairwolf> with the 13.04.16 daily
<flocculant> knome: what's up with dev tracker - appears to have lost all the bugs from there
<flocculant> or not
<flocculant> would think it was me going mad - but I bet you're fiddling :)
<ochosi_> Nairwolf: strange then, guess we need another test install at least to know for sure
<ochosi_> but tbh i'd be surprised if the bug you see is persistent
<flocculant> ochosi_: I could knock out a test from live quickish if you want
<ochosi> that'd be awesome
<ochosi> i'll be back in abouot 40mins
<ochosi> would the test be done by then?
<flocculant> live certainly will be
<flocculant> might be able to do an install by then as well
<ochosi> yeah, install would be great, just to be sure
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> ok, bbiab
<Nairwolf> I need to sleep now, I will make a new test tomorrow
<flocculant> Nairwolf: good night - thanks for testing 
<Nairwolf> thank you ;) I'm exciting with the release soon ! 
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> knome: thanks, shared
<Unit193> flocculant: New core seems to work fine. :P
<flocculant> Unit193: \o/
<flocculant> I'll look
<flocculant> tomorrow ... 
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> ochosi's gorn ... 
<flocculant> so am I - so can someone tell him 
<flocculant> live > http://i.imgur.com/d9MF7y8.png
<flocculant> installed > http://i.imgur.com/U5YJlXd.png
<flocculant> looks easy enough to distinguish wifi levels - even with my eyes without glasses
<flocculant> night all :)
<knome> flocculant, it's a known bug... it loses them sometimes, but gets them most of the times
<knome> flocculant, it's related to something timing out
<bluesabre> Unit193: I didn't see jockey in there
<ochosi> flocculant: seems i disconnected again... how did your tests go?
<flocculant> live > http://i.imgur.com/d9MF7y8.png
<Unit193> ochosi: https://paste.unit193.net/?5ccf738d5244303a#c6WJzG+1gxXuaFo5V3JDXyO0tE5XPKJoWpuprfrmJ+w=
<ochosi> hmm, that's not perfect
<flocculant> Unit193: I hadn't quite gone - was in the kitchen
<flocculant> knome: ack - wasn't sure :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/610 see it in the diff?
<ochosi> slightly weird, because the lock icons in the wifi icons should be dark too
<ochosi> at least they are in 15.10
<knome> flocculant, i'll try to fix that for yy...
<ochosi> but at least we're not looking at a big issue
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: did you manage to get an install too?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Was more an FYI and all.  Also, exclude in the menu file rather than u/s/x/a/?  I presume I missed context so will presume that's correct.  Good evening, kind sir!
<flocculant> ochosi: installed > http://i.imgur.com/U5YJlXd.png
<ochosi> right
<Unit193> left
<ochosi> thanks flocculant!
<flocculant> ochosi: also that's what Unit193's paste was - I was going, but hadn't quite
<flocculant> now I am :)
<ochosi> alright alright :)
<ochosi> same here ;)
<ochosi> thanks btw Unit193 
<flocculant> night all 
<flocculant> bluesabre: before I do - one last comment - cleaned up 16.04 bug blueprint
<flocculant> unfortunately there's a new one ... 
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> I mean, there is no jockey.desktop.in.h file in there
<ochosi> i wonder whether this icon (dark wifi, light lock icon) even exists in elementary-xfce... it's such a weird and useless hybrid that i somehow cannot image
<bluesabre> Unit193: hid it in the menu instead of killing it with a new launcher since it can still be used for the mimetype associations
<Unit193> Wondered if that was the case.
<ochosi> anyhow, time for be
<ochosi> d
<ochosi> night everyone!
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<Unit193> G'night.
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, I'll work on fixing some bugs tonight
<ochosi> (if anybody finds out what's wrong with that icon before me let me know and i'll fix it)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi: seems likely that it's overlaying the lock icon over the wifi icon
<bluesabre> or not
<bluesabre> using nm-signal-100-secure
<bluesabre> fun fact, you can now use gtk inspector in the indicator
<knome> what's the fun bit?
<bluesabre> not guessing
<bluesabre> not having to dig into code to figure things out
<bluesabre> see, tons of fun
<knome> ha.
<Unit193> Sounds like fun on a bun!
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> nighty!
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> a new translation landed in xubuntu-default-settings at some point
<bluesabre> that complicates things
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> We don't need no stinkin' language support,  everyone speaks English.
<bluesabre> I suppose... I can revert it away, commit, release, and revert the revert
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-14
<bluesabre> flocculant: commented again on bug 1513590 and marked invalid for the project. If you agree, we can also mark the Ubuntu report as such.
<ubottu> bug 1513590 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "unable to delete items in menulibre" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513590
<bluesabre> flocculant: unable to reproduce bug 1515184
<ubottu> bug 1515184 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Crash when selecting a category in a new entry" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515184
<bluesabre> maybe somebody else from !team would like to take a peek
<bluesabre> and that basically leaves thunar
<bluesabre> and libreoffice
<bluesabre> two things I am unlikely able to fix :D
<bluesabre> going to test the existing patches to see if any of those thunar bugs (all really the same bug) are lessened
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, I turned on ddebs for one of the PPAs, and disabled skippy-xd.
<bluesabre> Unit193: ddebs?
<Unit193> Automatic -dbg packages called -dbgsym, or something like that.
<krytarik> bluesabre: Regarding your translations shuffling, that's not necessary: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> well, suppose I'll push an xfpanel-switch update then for funsies
<krytarik> \o/
<bluesabre> while trying to recreate the thunar bug... I may have found a new one
<bluesabre> when will the madness end
<bluesabre> :D
<drc> When you stop trying to fix things...if debugging is the art of taking out bugs, then coding is the art of putting in bugs :)
<Unit193> Craaaap. :P
<bluesabre> bug 1570153
<ubottu> bug 1570153 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar crashes when moving files with SIGSEGV in __GI___libc_free()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570153
<bluesabre> xfpanel-switch uploaded, we'll see what happens next
<Unit193> Uploading Virii?
<bluesabre> >.>
<bluesabre> that's probably it for uploads... tomorrow final freeze goes into effect (likely before I get home)
<bluesabre> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze)
<bluesabre> maybe we'll figure out thunar before release :)
<Unit193> Eh...
<pavlushka> Hello every one!
<pavlushka> How can I request to add an keyboard layout to Xubuntu?
<pavlushka> the alpha 16.04 was supporting it but in beta, its gone.
<pavlushka> topic 2: echo lines are not there before booting kernel and initrd image in grub, its good to know whats happening so I had to re-edit that.
<pavlushka> fyi, I use Bengali Jatiya Keyboard Layout.
<pavlushka> for typing Bengali.
<pavlushka> http://www.ekushey.org/?page/national_layout
<pavlushka> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_input_methods
<flocculant> bluesabre: 1513590 yup mark it invalid for ubuntu too and thanks for having a look at 1515184 too
<Reklan> flocc
<Reklan> flocculant, Tried to reproduce bug 1571053 unable to do so in a VM or on Hardware.. moved the files well over 100 continuously.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1571053 could not be found
<Reklan> bug 1570153 that is
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1570153 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570153). The error has been logged
<Reklan> Thunar crashes when moving files with SIGSEGV in __GI___libc_free()
<bluesabre> slickymaster: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/1.0.4-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> knome, flocculant: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.04.5
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice :)
<flocculant> Reklan: thanks for checking that 
<flocculant> seems to be one of those thunar sometimes people see it things :(
<bluesabre> flocculant: so, if that lands in time for the image, we can kick the duplicate imagemagick entries from the bug list
<flocculant> yup :)
<flocculant> I think once we move out of 16.04 we really need to think about thunar 
<flocculant> and you were completely right in -offtopic :p
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I did have a quick look at caja and nemo (Ithink those are the names) as well as pcmanfm
<flocculant> mostly to prove my usb3 issue was everywhere - one looked more of a fit to us visually than the others 
<bluesabre> caja and nemo are a bit more polished, definitely
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> bluesabre: and that LO theme thing is a bit odd - I did 6 or so yesterday - same thing in all of them
<flocculant> and was apparently like it for a while - I just missed it - saw it wasn't breeze and thought no more of it
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, its probably a bug that is actually in libreoffice... it picks randomly from whats available, and galaxy comes with lo
<flocculant> right
<bluesabre> there might be something we can do to lock that in the config, but it would probably be ugly
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I guess we should think about that though even if it is 
<flocculant> would make it pointless to have elementary at all otherwise 
<bluesabre> indeed
<flocculant> *though* people could at least use it 
<bluesabre> I can experiment with it
<flocculant> my fault - should have caught that before
<bluesabre> its hit and miss, could be most folks are seeing the elementary theme and just a few are not
<flocculant> could be
<flocculant> at least you saw something different to me
<flocculant> anyway - end result is it's *now* and we have it to try and work out lol 
<flocculant> off again now - bbl
<Reklan> flocculant, just doing todays iso, as we are nearing the RC, do you want ALL bugs reporting (i.e VM reboot, Ubuntu 1 BMarks etc) or just the  newer ones.. i.e Static IP box, and LO elementary theme..
<Reklan> nvm didn't see you gone.. will add all of them.. you can always delete them  :-)
<pavlushka>  repositories are not working. no ping from repository, mtr tool can trace it with ip!!!
<pavlushka> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15832837/
<PaulW2U> pavlushka: May be a local problem? I've downloaded today's updates using both the "main" and GB settings for the Ubuntu repositories.
<flocculant> reklan - just in case you read logs: report what you see even if it's old, put it on tracker
<flocculant> the chance of fixing things diminish rapidly now - but we can put things on release notes so people are aware
<flocculant> you can report the vbox reboot if you want - that's one I *will* ignore - it has a special status on release notes @LEAVE THIS ONE FOREVER PROBABLY :p
<knome> bluesabre, saw that, thank
<knome> +s
<flocculant> anyone know the mechanism behind being subscribed to a bug
<flocculant> that is if 'xubuntu bugs' isn't auto subscribed to something here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs would the person reporting have to physically subscribe someone to it? 
<flocculant> talking launchpad here 
<krytarik> flocculant: Unless the bug report is linked anywhere else, like the QA trackers, or another person/team relevant to the package is subscribed to it, it'd seem yes.
<flocculant> krytarik: that's what I thought
<flocculant> and if it's tracker it says so "This bug has been reported on the Ubuntu Package testing tracker."
<flocculant> but it doesn't actually subscribe you - it just reports to LP if tracker is involved
<flocculant> so if it's one of our packages we're subscribed to I'd see
<flocculant> another reason why reports there work :)
<flocculant> knome: made a couple of minor changes to other mm's
<knome> flocculant, k
<knome> going to publish it next
<knome> flocculant, oh, straight to x.org? nice
<flocculant> knome: the small details - for after release, things like how do people change the way the power icon shows different options - which is currently a command to add to settings then you can fiddle in settings editor
<flocculant> just a thought
<knome> yes, we can do more of them
<flocculant> knome: yea - when I know it's on x.org I'll do changes there :)
<knome> pleia2, social media time
<knome> pleia2, https://xubuntu.org/news/my-media-manager-other-alternatives/ is out and tweeted
<pleia2> k
<flocculant> I do wonder why there's the option to change the wallpaper in seconds 
<flocculant> knome: and checked wallpapers (again I think but nvm:)
<knome> :D
<pleia2> it's on g+ and fb now
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, mind pasting the links here so i can forward to those who participated in creating the article?
<pleia2> https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers/posts/968719729843601
<pleia2> https://plus.google.com/+xubuntu/posts/QxAjnMNk4of
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> no login walls, yay
<flocculant> :)
<knome> twitter tells me 54% of our audience buys cheese.
<knome> and only 49% chocolate candy
<flocculant> got to be wrong
<knome> audience being followers
<davmor2> knome: so you're saying twitter is full of mice
 * knome shrugs
<knome> no idea
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> if 100% of twitter followers ate grass you could use that argument
<knome> ;)
<davmor2> flocculant: no then I'd say they were cows not mice :P
<knome> or hippied
<knome> hippies too
<flocculant> davmor2: or sheep
<flocculant> not *our* followers in particular you understand
<davmor2> flocculant: That would be a better metaphor I guess
<flocculant> :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkCwFkOZoOY
<davmor2> flocculant: ^
<flocculant> if that's shawn ... 
<flocculant> phew ...
<flocculant> think I'll grab someone else's image and hope the suspend/cursor thing is global
<flocculant> eeny meeny miny mo ... 
<Unit193> Kubuntu.
<flocculant> ubuntu
<flocculant> if it affects ubuntu more chance of it getting fixed :p
<flocculant> and evening Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> late evening all
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<ochosi> uhm, you wanna replace thunar..?
<flocculant> not this or next week :p
<ochosi> yeah, obviously
<ochosi> but even very generally speaking?
<Unit193> ochosi: It's got everyone upset that it likes crashing so much.
<flocculant> if it keeps causing issues like it has been then why not
<ochosi> yeah, but i guess that's partly due to updates in gvfs
<ochosi> it used to be quite stable a few releases ago
<ochosi> and there wasn't any massive thunar development
<flocculant> well yea maybe gvfs is causing the problems - but I don't see much in the way of people complaining about other file managers which I assume use gvfs as well
<ochosi> have any of you tried going back to an older thunar version?
<ochosi> yeah, it might be that other file managers have some gvfs stuff implemented differently, hard to tell, i'm no thunar expert
<ochosi> i only browsed the source code very superficially
<ochosi> still, i'd think it's worth trying to figure out what's wrong with it
<flocculant> of course
<Unit193> ochosi: Though doesn't matter if it is gvfs that causes it, still crashing.  If you have a 50/50 chance, yeah that's not good.  Personally yes I'd like to keep thunar, though it'd need fixed.
<flocculant> ochosi: just ftr it's not just me :)
<Nairwolf> hi ;)
<Nairwolf> Do you remember what I said yesterday about 13 April daily ? The theme of nm-applet was weird, and it was difficult to distinguish power level of Wi-Fi signals
<ochosi> yup
<Nairwolf> I've tested with a reclean install, and it's the same bug...
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> i thought flocculant also tested with a clean install
<flocculant> Nairwolf: though it could be your eyes 
<flocculant> ochosi: I did
<flocculant> eg - while you might not find them very distinct difference others do 
<Unit193> Eyes, monitor, video drivers, etc? :P
<flocculant> yea
<Nairwolf> let me send you the imgur link
<Nairwolf> look this : https://imgur.com/eDtA2Qm
<Nairwolf> look nm-apple wifi signals
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> those are fine
<ochosi> apart from XIXI all your wifis have bad signal -> not our fault!
<ochosi> ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: unless you're talking about the lock icon
<ochosi> yeah, still not sure why the lock icon is white
<ochosi> shouldn't be the case and isn't in 15.10
<Nairwolf> what is the lock icon ? 
<Nairwolf> ochosi: yes most of my wifis have bad signal, but I've found coulors make it difficult to distinguish low level and high level
<Nairwolf> Maybe it was like that in 15.10 before
<Nairwolf> Didn't notice
<Nairwolf> I'm sorry, I am not able to test more the daily tonight...
<ochosi> humm, i think i might've found the root cause of the light lock icon...
<flocculant> Nairwolf: no need for apologies :)
<flocculant> ochosi: someone seeded eraser?
<ochosi> i wonder though whether we'll be able to test the fix in time
<ochosi> even more so whether we'll be able to get it into the image, even though it's a trivial one (if it works)
<flocculant> ochosi: well if we can get it on a ppa we can test it 
<flocculant> whether we can get it landed is another thing
<ochosi> it'll automatically land in the shimmer daily PPA
<Unit193> With the nasty versioning. :3
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll set the laptop up to that daily then and check tomorrow if someone reminds me - and I'm sure Nairwolf would if asked ;)
<ochosi> i just requested a build there, so whenever that one is done (it estimates ~12mins) you can upgrade and test
<flocculant> if I'm still kicking tonight I'll have a look
<ochosi> now it says 2mins
<ochosi> in case that motivates you ;)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> already building
<flocculant> atm I'm just trying somethings with this cursor missing on suspend issue
<flocculant> and *think* possibly found something else ... 
<slickymaster> great bluesabre. Thanks
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1568604 I just checked one of the comments from https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135
<ubottu> Debian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]
<ubottu> bug 1568604 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 16.04 beta loses mouse cursor when returning from sleep" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<flocculant> change to vt1 then back to vt7 and cursor comes back, also I http://askubuntu.com/questions/504307/ubuntu-14-04-changing-intel-graphics-driver-configurations > anyname.conf and change sna to uxa - cursor works after suspend 
<bluesabre> ochosi: thunar development sped up after 1.6.3, with lots of contributors and accepted patches... things also started breaking at that point
<flocculant> oh hey bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<flocculant> ochosi: here? https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily?field.series_filter=xenial
<bluesabre> bbiab
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll be gone I expect - I'm pretty sure that the LP cursor bug can upstream to that debian one - but not confident enough to add it :p
<ochosi> flocculant: yup
<ochosi> this is the build https://code.launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily/+recipebuild/1118237
<ochosi> sorry, gotta go take care of the little one
<flocculant> ok - just not showing up yet
<flocculant> ochosi: s'ok :)
<ochosi> if it helps, maybe sean can pull in the changes to xubuntu-artwork and release/upload a new version
<ochosi> if it doesn't, i'll try to fix it on the weekend
<ochosi> gotta run, night everyone!
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, true, maybe i gotta talk to hjudt
<ochosi> ->
<flocculant> ochosi: night :)
<flocculant> I'll check the icon theme in the morning ... 
<flocculant> night all
<slickymaster> night flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-15
<bluesabre> long bit
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything cool on for today?
<bluesabre> Unit193: thinking I might package up multiple thunar versions for easy comparison testing
<Unit193> ...With a postinst/preinst to killall Thunar thunar 2>&1 1>/dev/null ? :P
<Unit193> And yeah, doesn't sound fun to go through the commits and see what broke it. :/
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah thanks, lemme know how it goes (icon theme checking)
<flocculant> ochosi: no change I'm afraid
<ochosi> k :/
<ochosi> bluesabre: does the thunar version in your ppa hold this patch? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c30
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<ali1234> thunar git master doesn't seem to crash any more
<ali1234> but now it doesn't redraw the screen correctly
<flocculant> ochosi_: I thought that was the patch in ppa - but not completely sure
<flocculant> assuming that Unit193 used wording from the patch maybe not > Fix-crashes-when-reloading-target-file-after-move.patch
<Unit193> I grabbed one commit.
<flocculant> Unit193: wouldn't know - I 'm just commenting on what I can see on lp :)
<flocculant> then again - lp shows thunar published date of 30th Jan - I thought it was before that
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> s/before/well after :p
<Unit193> I pushed it a long time ago, so sounds right.
<flocculant> so maybe not the patch concerned
<flocculant> given that not sure where the *new* thunar came from - cos dpkg says I have ^^ version
<knome> pleia2, social media time
<flocculant> noooooooo
<flocculant> stop it 
<knome> i'm sick so not going to hang out for a long time, and better do it earlier than later
<flocculant> :p
<knome> why?
<flocculant> knome: oh dear :(
<flocculant> knome: just joking 
<knome> hah
<knome> okay
<flocculant> knome: trust me to say something early in the morning if I've seen something - I will :)
<knome> pleia2, https://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-wallpapers/ out and tweeted
<knome> ok, off i go
<knome> ttyl
<flocculant> knome: hope you feel better tomowwow :)
<pleia2> knome: done
<bluesabre> flocculant, will review it today
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> best just to look at changes :)
<flocculant> hggdh: easier here - I found the fxce bug testing thunar NOT Nautilus
<flocculant> so assignmnet change
<hggdh> flocculant: done
<hggdh> please check & confirm I did not mess up
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-16
<flocculant> hggdh: thanks - that's it :)
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> flocculant: we can likely remove https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imagemagick/+bug/1549732 from the release notes, should be fixed now, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1549732 in One Hundred Papercuts "Duplicate Imagemagick entries on menu" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dkessel> upgrading lts -> lts should work just fine by now, right? and non-lts -> lts, too?
<Nairwolf> dkessel: flocculant told me recently that it wasn't so much tested but it should work. 
<Nairwolf> In Theme Configuration, what is supposed to be "highlight colors" ? 
<Nairwolf> I've changed colors and I haven't seen any changes...
<Nairwolf> no, ok, I got it 
<PaulW2U> Today's ISO, 64-bit anyway, boots to the desktop when the install option is selected from the boot menu.
<krytarik> PaulW2U, flexiondotorg: LP bug 1570901.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570901 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Cd menu not booting to ubiquity try/install menu but always to live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570901
<PaulW2U> Thanks krytarik, although not a confirmed bug it's already been assigned by those that can fix it :)
<PaulW2U> s/by/to/
<krytarik> Well, now it is too. :P
<flexiondotorg> krytarik, I'll go a +1. Thanks.
<ochosi> ali1234: well that sounds comforting...
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-17
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - done that, also split the 'changes' on the release notes - makes more sense like that
<flocculant> ochosi: \o/ latest xubuntu-icon-theme > http://i.imgur.com/4KAQxx2.png 
<flocculant> assuming that we don't get that in during the next few days - sru material? in which case I'll create a bug for it now so I can put it on the note
<flocculant> rather I need to report it anyway for the note if it's unlikely to land :)
<Nairwolf> hi, I'm happy to know this bug is not only for me : 1570901
<Nairwolf> the bug with ubiquity. 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: so am I :D
<Nairwolf> I would like to clarify some technical terms. For example, with mugshot, you have mugshot which the name of the application, and you have "about me" found in the menu. What is the exact term for "about me", is it the "nickname" of the application Mugshot ? 
<flocculant> About Me is the launcher name, mughsot is the application name
<Nairwolf> launcher name, thank you ;)
<flocculant> you could edit About Me's name and call is flibbertygibbet if you wanted :)
<Nairwolf> Yes, I know that. 
<flocculant> :)
<Nairwolf> As I'm currently working on translations, I was looking for the exact english term. 
<flocculant> aah right :)
<Nairwolf> but launcher name isn't really easy to translate into french. I need to find a better name, or I will ask to french translators how they translate that. 
<Nairwolf> flocculant: Are you able to explain me this choice about Mugshot ? The first installed user and any added admin users will be able to change any field. Normal users can change their image and most of the fields, this type of user will not be able to change phone numbers.
<Nairwolf> It's from this article : http://xubuntu.org/news/small-details-personal-information-integration/
<Nairwolf> I'm wondering why a normal user isn't able to change phone numbers. do you know why ? 
<flocculant> not really
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre> [02:25:53] flocculant: new mugshot in -staging... did what I could, phone numbers are now disabled for non-sudoers (same limitation as in the Users & Groups app)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: ^^
<Nairwolf> okay, I will ask to bluesabre. I'm interested to know why it's disabled. 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I don't think it's disabled as such - more a limitation elsewhere affecting mugshot
<flocculant> I guess if you're going to send a mail to the team - best to make sure you include the XPL ...
<flocculant> sorry for the mail spam peeps
<Nairwolf> flocculant: yes, I was also thinking there is a limitation somewhere. That's why I'm interested to understand why...
<Nairwolf> lunch time, see you later
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: the explanation is a bit like this... 1) AccountsService does not enable changing of phone numbers (https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/DesignDocs/AccountsService), and 2) `chfn` requires a password to change your details and does not have a non-terminal prompt.  The SudoDialog I made provides a graphical prompt and is used in Mugshot depends on checking your password with sudo... if you're
<bluesabre> not in sudoers (and non-admins are not), that will fail
<bluesabre> so if you're not in Sudoers, I have no way of getting a user's password to change their details
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: you can find Mugshot's current French translations at https://translations.launchpad.net/mugshot/trunk/+pots/mugshot/fr/+translate - it looks like "About Me" was translated to "Ã mon sujet"
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<bluesabre> flocculant: I may have a fix for libreoffice... testing this morning
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: would we be able to get that in? 
<bluesabre> we can try
<flocculant> also see my pinging of Simon re the icons :_
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> saw that
<bluesabre> will try that too
<flocculant> aah okey doke :)
<bluesabre> "release goals" - we're picky
<flocculant> yup 
<flocculant> which is as it should be this late just in case it explodes all over everyone I guess :p
<flocculant> ha ha - I'm going to have divide +2's by 2 then :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> to fix it, I'm basically adding a pre-populated config with only the theme set in skel
<bluesabre> should just work
<bluesabre> but we know how these things go
<flocculant> indeed :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess I really should do a xubuntu-icon-theme bug anyway 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes please, so I can link it to the upload
<flocculant> oh boo
<flocculant> stupid ppa warning ... 
<bluesabre> cool, seems to work
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1571317
<ubottu> bug 1571317 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Wireless lock icon shows white against white " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571317
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> tested by making the default elementary, logging in as guest, seeing elementary as default, changing to galaxy, logging in as guest, seeing galaxy as default
<bluesabre> good sign
<flocculant> I'll add it to note for now - just in case it's not landed - this is one of those things I *would* forget on Thursday 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> apart from anything else - I only boot the laptop to check things for Simon :p
<flocculant> sigh ... wiki 
<bluesabre> -- Wiki wiki means "quick" in Hawaiian. (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/wiki)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> no ubuntu wiki on Hawaii then :p
<bluesabre> "Ubuntu Wiki" means slow in Open Source
<flocculant> LOL
<flocculant> this one's great - login (cos it's decided that even though you logged in 10 minutes ago - that's long enough) change a page, save it, clear the message - login to wiki to edit something else, rinse repeat until bored
<flocculant> which is 2 minutes in this case - I'll go post something on rt.ubuntu instead 
<bluesabre> flocculant: xubuntu-default-settings approved
<bluesabre> stgraber is around, so I should get those icons uploaded quickly as well
<flocculant> \o/ 
<bluesabre> oh man, lots of new icons since the last xubuntu-artwork upload
<bluesabre> I only want those network ones
<flocculant> oh really ... 
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> confused
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> the commits don't seem to line up with the upload date, not making sense of this
<flocculant> I'm guessing that ochosi added something more recently than 2 days ago - cos originally his change didn't help, updating today and it did
<bluesabre> I uploaded last time on Mar 15, but I've got hundreds of changed icons compared to https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commits/master
<flocculant> can't comment on that :)
<bluesabre> weird
<flocculant> not really - I wouldn't understand so I won't comment :p
<bluesabre> maybe my last upload didn't actually include the changes I wrote in the log
<bluesabre> nope, they do
<bluesabre> hundreds was incorrect
<bluesabre> thousands
<bluesabre> https://paste.ubuntu.com/15893211/
<flocculant> blimey
<bluesabre> ochosi: ping
<flocculant> mmm
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I wonder then if the ppa icon theme is unnecessary 
<bluesabre> seems valuable to me
<flocculant> ok - didn't know if the 'thing which makes the lock' ok was there previously 
 * Unit193 sighs at skel. :(
 * flocculant sighed at wiki first
<Unit193> But yeah, I checked, no other places it looks.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, lo only uses its registry file
<Unit193> Nothing in xdg and just one file in etc (I straced..)
<bluesabre> anyway, I can drop all those changed files except the network one and toss the package into -staging
<bluesabre> *ones
<bluesabre> I'm no good at plural today
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> xubuntu-artwork uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - should build shortly
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: artwork for the icon update is that? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yup
<flocculant> k - I'll check the lappy later on
<flocculant> bluesabre: so if I check http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html later for default-settings later today and it's gone does that mean it's out of proposed? 
<flocculant> if it does - when I see that - I'll trigger a rebuild for us and check :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: most likely
<flocculant> ok - I'll check that all later
<bluesabre> flocculant: or when https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.04.6 says its in release
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> wandering off for a bit now
<bluesabre> flocculant: if the ppa -artwork fixes things for you (or seems to keep them fixed, probably need to log out/in) we can get that uploaded as well
<bluesabre> alrighty
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack  - as soon as I know either I'll put it in here :)
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> going to go watch a movie now and chill for a bit
<bluesabre> ping, I'm around
<flocculant> much the same :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant: The default menu on xubuntu is called whisker menu, right ? 
<flocculant> flocculant: yup
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: first one was quick :) ppa artwork installed, xubuntu-icon-theme @16.04.2 > lock icons on wireless and strength look fine here - I can see it all with glasses off ;)
<Nairwolf> xfwm do not have english wikipedia page... 
<Nairwolf> In this webpage : http://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/ , they say that whisker menu is an alternate application launcher. Does it mean that Whisker isn't the launcher menu by default on Xfce ? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: it's a race \o/ let's see if it get's there before the rc build lands at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/359/builds :D
<flocculant> must be something else - it's gone from excuses, it looks like it's in the release pocket, but it's not showing up anywhere else yet :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: rebuilding 64bit only
<krytarik> flocculant: That's because it's not arch-specific - and I see it here: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-default-settings/
<flocculant> right - not sure it would have actually been there when it wasn't anywhere else - all appears to be catching up now
<flocculant> at least the image is building with 16.04.6 :)
<bluesabre> back now
<bluesabre> flocculant: good to hear, I'll get that uploaded shortly
<flocculant> bluesabre: just zsynced - checking live - installing from new iso
<flocculant> so then that should be the LO bug fix released
<bluesabre> correct
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/254235177/buildlog_ubuntu_xenial_amd64_xubuntu_BUILDING.txt.gz showsxubuntu-default-settings all 16.04.6 
<flocculant> the zsynced one still shows .5
<bluesabre> boo
<flocculant> having another go :)
<flocculant> maybe current wasn't properly synced with todays .1 build
<flocculant> oh and the try/install dialogue is back :)
<flocculant> right version of it now 
<PaulW2U> flocculant: install option still doesn't work here, boots to a vt then to desktop  :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: confirm the LO fix
<flocculant> PaulW2U: not sure what's been going on with the images over the last day or so - but the 64 bit that's showing on Final installs 
<PaulW2U> not for me 
<flocculant> there's been some strangeness 
<flocculant> PaulW2U: mmm
<flocculant> PaulW2U: the 20160417.1 iso? 
<flocculant> first time I synced it - it was old - didn't actually try it - second time it was up to date
<PaulW2U> flocculant: yes 17.1 ISO
<flocculant> PaulW2U: not a clue then tbh as I'm installing from the image again here :)
<flocculant> but if you choose the install option at the very first menu you could do so - it lands at the livesession
<flocculant> in infinity's words "That sounds delighfully broken."
<flocculant> there's a global rebuild going on now btw
<PaulW2U> flocculant: agreed, I can start an install from the desktop but not the main menu
<flocculant> ok - cool - I was a bit concerned then :)
<flocculant> if I'm trying to prove something like I was with default-settings I'm going to boot to desktop first just to make sure it has what I'm expecting
<flocculant> mmm - this time from Install at the first menu I'm installing
<drc> 3 builds today, huh?  Problems or just finalizing things?
<flocculant> drc: I rebuilt to check -default-settings change 
<flocculant> then there was a global one from -release team :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> so wait, my patch worked after all?
<ochosi> (for the icons)
<ochosi> bluesabre: +1000 for getting that LO theme bug fixed!
<flocculant> ochosi: yea not sure what was up there - it definitely hadn't previously - I did another update - fixed now *shrug*
<ochosi> well as long as it's fixed and bluesabre can get it uploaded, it's all good ;)
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> just waiting on -release for that now :)
<ochosi> nice, so at least two bugs less in the imagea
<flocculant> yep :)
<ochosi> now thunar is our biggest whoopsie i guess?
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks for your reply re team member - did mail whole team now
<ochosi> or are there any other biggies?
<flocculant> yea - thunar is pretty much it - cursor loss on suspend isn't much fun for those affected 
<ochosi> but that was graphics card/driver related if i recall correctly, right?
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> right..
<ochosi> always problems with that
<flocculant> seemingly affects intel
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> so it'll affect me :'(
<flocculant> ... 
<flocculant> at least the work round is pretty painless ... ctrl+alt+f1 then ctrl+alt+f7
<ochosi> yeah, but still
<drc> biggie == 1) affects a bunch of people or biggie == the one whoopsie that will affect me and I need a fix, NOW! ? :)
<flocculant> drc: indeed :D
<flocculant> #xubuntu will be full of #2 next week
<flocculant> I shall crosscheck LP name against bugs reported before last month :p
<flocculant> ochosi: pretty sure it's https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135 
<ubottu> Debian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> but not quite sure enough to add it to the LP bug :D
<ochosi> well you can always add it so we have it on the radar
<flocculant> ok :)
<flocculant> though I guess lightlocker is completely wrong and it should be xserver-xorg-video-intel
<flocculant> because apart from anything it only happens after you've unlocked
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> bbabl
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - x-artwork looks like accepted at least :)
<drc> huh, just dl'd the 17.2 ISO, dd'd it to a usb stick, booted it. Touching nothing, it boots thru to the desktop (no try/install choice).Hitting enter and going thru the menus, I can go straight to install.  Is this the way it's supposed to work in this Brave New World?
<flocculant> nope
<drc> whoopsie (type 1 or 2?)
<flocculant> it's the way it does with bug someone reported that I can't find at present :)
<flocculant> bug 1570901
<ubottu> bug 1570901 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Cd menu not booting to ubiquity try/install menu but always to live session" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570901
<flocculant> the one I'm banging on about on the testing mails 
<drc> Why does Canonical feel they have to break ubiquity with each release?
<drc> s/break/improve/
<Unit193> drc: Jenga?
<flocculant> not sure what's the issue here enough to know 
<flocculant> should really s/swissbot/bossybot :p
<flocculant> or change ATTN to hey guys ... 
<Unit193> Well it's a notice, so not as nosiy as a msg, can ignore it too. :D
<flocculant> sigh - so is the change to xubuntu-artwork through? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-artwork/?C=M;O=D
<flocculant> that makes me think it is 
<flocculant> if someone would be good enough to tell me one way or the other I'll rebuild both now
<Unit193> (Though I can change 'ATTN' to anything.)
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - I know you said that last time I joked about swissbot :p
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork is a better link.
<drc> Or "Hey you guys" (re: The Electric Company)
<drc> or Goonies :)
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks - and I assume if it was in -proposed it would say so against the 16.04.2 line? 
<flocculant> drc: :)
<Unit193> flocculant: It'd have two, what's in release and what's in proposed, aye.
<flocculant> cool - so I can rebuild and it will get the icon fix? 
<Unit193> In theory.
<flocculant> you're not helping me here :D
<Unit193> Hah, lucky me: xubuntu-artwork 16.04.1
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> Yep, installer still craps out.
<flocculant> still don't know whether to believe http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-artwork/?C=M;O=D or http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xubuntu-artwork&suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names
<Unit193> The first is the actual archive, second is just a user interface.
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> not spending anymore time on this tonight
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you want to you can trigger a rebuild for us at tracker - then any more rebuilds we have to go through will be global ones - thanks
<flocculant> back tomorrow :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I guess I need to do one for the mailing list too? if so - that'll be in the morning as well 
<Unit193> ochosi: I even sent one, sooo. :P
<ochosi> flocculant: nah, i'll just do an announcement and then that's it
<ochosi> unless you wanna do the announcement, which is totally fine by me :)
<ochosi> (i already write enough email @work)
<ochosi> anyway, night y'all
<drc> huh...is exaile going to be in the 16.04 repos?
<Unit193> !info exaile xenial
<ubottu> Package exaile does not exist in xenial
<Unit193> :3
<drc> I know that.  I was wondering if it was going to be added at the last minute :)
<drc> If not, any idea why it was dropped (I assume ther is a reasonable reason...just not one I like :)
<Unit193> Oh, I see: RoQA; depends on gstreamer 0.10
<drc> and  gstreamer 0.10's bben depreciated?
<Unit193> A bit ago, and now removed from the archive finally.
<drc> Well, that makes the decision easy.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-10
<flocculant> PaulW2U: can only reproduce that crash on 32 bit parole
<PaulW2U> flocculant: which crash, the new one that I found?
<PaulW2U> I first saw bug 1214514 on my permanent 64-bit install which is why I checked on 64 and 32 RC images
<ubottu> bug 1214514 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in _IO_new_fclose()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214514
<flocculant> PaulW2U: yea sorry - that one :) not seeing that on 64bit image nor here locally - can replicate on 32bit
<flocculant> when I'm not waking up still I'll look in yesterdays vanilla install
<flocculant> what I do see is that on 64 bit clear history from open location - doesn't clear history (not sure if it is supposed to just clear network location history)
<PaulW2U> Just checked on another 64-bit install and parole definitely does a vanishing act :)
<PaulW2U> I'm 100% Xubuntu now by the way...
<flocculant> this install I use has a lot of stuff from gtk3 ppa too
<flocculant> on 32 bit clear history from open recent doesn't crash it :)
<PaulW2U> Right, have stayed clear of all your PPAs for now
<flocculant> at least not on vm
<flocculant> PaulW2U: yea I think I read xubuntu 100% on your blog :)
<PaulW2U> Oh, a reader  :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> ok - replicates as crash from Open Location > Clear
<flocculant> Clear from Open Recent works 
<flocculant> PaulW2U: given we're unlikely to see that fixed this side of Thursday I'll make sure it's at least on the release note
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ all that recent stuffs
<PaulW2U> reported in 2013 with just one person affected. probably something no-one uses anyway
<flocculant> :) I know that when I look at parole open location isn't something I use, hence knowing that clear works ok from one route
<flocculant> anyway - time for work - bbl
<slickymaster> no chnages I can think of, also
<slickymaster> go ahead and upload please bluesabre 
<krytarik> lol
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-docs zesty
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): Xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 17.04 (zesty), package size 3503 kB, installed size 9213 kB
<knome> besty.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> 1. Slick didn't see that.  2. Testin'
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy!
<bluesabre> hiya Unit193 !
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-11
<akxwi-dave> testing the rebuilds  do you want this bug 1681655 marking as confirmed? I know you mentioned this previously.. but its not really a bug..
<ubottu> bug 1681655 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu zesty ISO slideshow still shows yak" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681655
<knome> arf
<knome> do we think we should do something about that?
<akxwi-dave> stick a pictur of a zapus on its back
<akxwi-dave> picture*
<knome> i was thinking something else that sunsets the animal imagery nicely
<knome> and is a fun pun too
<knome> eg. a zapus nest in the ground with  Z z Z z Z z  coming from it
<knome> but only if we think we want to replace the artwork...
<knome> bluesabre, ^ you *want* to do another upload?: P
<bluesabre> knome: don't think I can upload slideshow
<knome> mm, right, of course
<knome> how do you feel about having the yak there yourself then?
<bluesabre> could be worse
<bluesabre> but you can probably get somebody to upload and we can respin
<knome> mhm
<knome> "fun" :P
<knome> how does QA feel about respinning?
<knome> akxwi-dave?
<knome> flocculant?
<akxwi-dave> aye if its uploaded don't min a respin..   
<knome> oki
<knome> then i'll try to make it happen today
<knome> i need to do a few things first, then i might have time to work on the art before leaving; otherwise, it won't be until the evening
<akxwi-dave> you know damn well  that will be the thing that gets picked up and moaned about rather than anything else
<knome> yep :(
<akxwi-dave> you can see the headline.. "Xubuntu releases with old art work"  rather than "Xubuntu team fixes Thunar bug and delivers stable desktop"
<knome> "Xubuntu releases with an old fart" rather
<akxwi-dave> pmsl.. just spat my coffee over my onitor
<knome> ;)=
<akxwi-dave> monitor*
<bluesabre> "Xubuntu releases with a finely aged vintage yak"
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> knome: if it's respun someone will likely test something
<flocculant> and I wouldn't care if the last slide was without a different rat on it :p
<knome> yup
<knome> ok, got to go now
<knome> i'll be back in the evening
<knome> hf meanwhile
<flocculant> bluesabre: ever thought of removing the Clear History items from the 2 menu choices in parole it appears in - and just having 1?
<flocculant> or having 1 that only removes parole history and not all the histories I can find ...
<flocculant> pick the right clear history and you can invalid a bug :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: which one removes everything?
<bluesabre> and they're different histories, so removing one wouldn't make much sense
<bluesabre> fixing the broken one would :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: the clear history in the open location option crashes parole
<bluesabre> doesn't seem to here
<flocculant> the clear history in open recent clears all history - like mousepad history and the like
<bluesabre> that's definitely a problem
<flocculant> bluesabre: it doesn't crash here - boot a vanilla install and try it - or vm
<flocculant> the crash ot the clear history clears everything? 
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> well, that's a lovely crash
<bluesabre> looks like I've got some work to do :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: is clear history from the 'open' menu supposed to actually clear mousepad type history? 
<flocculant> if not I'll sort out some sensible bug reports a bit quick so I can release note better
<bluesabre> flocculant: no, it should only clear parole file types... but that might be overreaching since parole can read text m3u files
<bluesabre> I'll debug it tonight
<flocculant> ok - well I need to release note something :)
<bluesabre> bug report away :D
<bluesabre> I'll review the notes tonight
<flocculant> I can report this afternoon before your tonight :D
<flocculant> in the meantime - bbl - have a good day :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<stevehope> @flocculant morning, yesterday we discussed testing the browser/irc link during slideshow, and if was availible in other Ubuntu distributions, and if it should be tested at against. Just noticed this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1681144 in which the slideshow browser link didn't work, suggesting it should be specifically tested during slideshow, vs post install browser test
<meetingology> stevehope: Error: "flocculant" is not a valid command.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681144 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking on URLs in Kubuntu Installer Slideshow does nothing" [Medium,Triaged]
<stevehope> flocculant morning, yesterday we discussed testing the browser/irc link during slideshow, and if was availible in other Ubuntu distributions, and if it should be tested at against. Just noticed this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1681144 in which the slideshow browser link didn't work, suggesting it should be specifically tested during slideshow, vs post install browser test
<flocculant> stevehope: might be so, however I'm not convinced 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re EOL - what exactly is the state of that? When we have an LTS which goes EOL - do ALL 14.04 packages continue to receive updates? And is EOL effectively a social thing - eg we say 3 years and then our position is install a newer one?
<flocculant> as far as I know the latter is the reality
<flocculant> ochosi: can we get the available versions for parole bugzilla updated :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm still procrastinating on the release notes - but it would be nice if you could edit the second sentence for me - doesn't need to be much :) http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
<knome> it'll be like one more hour until i get to the slide art... but then i will definitely get into it
<flocculant> knome: with luck you might manage to persuade people to allow it in before they do next global respin
<flocculant> looks like another on the cards
<flocculant> stevehope: can you report a bug to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug and we'll see what other people think on that :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I finished procrastinating now ;)
<stevehope> flocculant, I want to see if I can replicate the ubiquity bug first, of the top of my head i think it was from the kubuntu final... on my todo list
<flocculant> ok
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/slideshow-1704/zapus_slide.png
<stevehope> btw it doesn't impact the current Xubuntu ISOs in testing
<knome> flocculant, akxwi-dave, bluesabre: ^
<knome> maybe add some grass
<stevehope> as i specfically checked for it in my tests
<stevehope> acutally the links are on 4 or five of the slides
<flocculant> knome: wfm :)
<stevehope> no need to replicate it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1681144/+activity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681144 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking on URLs in Kubuntu Installer Slideshow does nothing" [Medium,Triaged]
<flocculant> yea just read that bug
<flocculant> knome: the only thing is that might put people in mind of boring - looks (probably deliberately) like cartoon zzzz's
<knome> yep
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/slideshow-1704/zapus_slide_2.png
<knome> we can do some fancier oblique Z's if we want to...
<flocculant> just wonder if it would be better without the z's at all
<knome> nope
<knome> too empty
<flocculant> unless the council has decided there's going to be no aa and we're all sacked
<knome> lol
<flocculant> not sure - seems like we're playing into the hands of the naysayers 
<flocculant> oh look xubuntu is so boring even the slideshow's gone to sleep 
<knome> heh.
<knome> we can just counter them by saying the release codename initals are ZZ
<knome> that's why i think this is the best time to do this :P
<knome> or maybe the z's need to be considerably bigger.
<flocculant> like so big there are just 2 ;)
<knome> yep.
<flocculant> that would make more sense - at least to me
<flocculant> and I'm assuming this is in the sunset the animals thing for us?
<knome> yeah, i'm thinking it is
<knome> it's a lot of work for little benefit
<flocculant> yea yea - understood :)
<flocculant> though if you remember to our discussion a while back - we could hand it over to community - early - and see what comes up
<knome> yeah
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/slideshow-1704/zapus_slide_3.png
<knome> better?
<flocculant> maybe the top one more faded? 
<knome> you mean like invisible to people with crappy monitors? :P
<flocculant> but yea - happier with that than zzzzz's :)
<flocculant> knome: ha ha 
<knome> i'm not kidding...
<flocculant> just be thankful you're not trying to make me see an elliptircle
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/slideshow-1704/zapus_slide_4.png
<knome> i think i'm happy with this, we should get it uploaded
<flocculant> knome: yea - that's better imo
<knome> cyphermox, o hiiiii....!
<flocculant> he's all gnome and gdm and bugs in -release atm :)
<knome> cyphermox, willing to do a slideshow upload if i prepare the stuff and do the paperwork for freezes?
 * cyphermox cries
<cyphermox> ;)
<knome> sssh! i don't know that so i an ask him with good conscience!
<cyphermox> it's so very late for a slideshow update.
<knome> it's just a png
<knome> i can push the changes for you in a branch if you want to look at the massive diff :P
<cyphermox> sure, but still; you get finger wagging and a stern look
 * knome takes the wagging and look graciously
<flocculant> cyphermox: he's a very bad boy
<cyphermox> but yeah, I'll review and upload to the queue, and if infinity is happy he's let it in
<knome> oki, thanks
<flocculant> thanks cyphermox 
<knome> do you want the paperwork done?
<stevehope> prehaps change it from Thank you, to 
<cyphermox> mea culpa, I should perhaps have harassed people in getting slideshows ready earlier
<knome> this is our own fault... we even have or main updates done
<flocculant> stevehope: it's rather late for word changes :)
<knome> yeah, no word changes
<knome> for 17.10 then
<cyphermox> knome: you're not the only one; the slideshow has been a mess this cycle
<stevehope> Well you're comitted now Xubuntu overwriting hardrive, you're not scewed if you only have one computer because.... lol
<knome> cyphermox, that doesn't make it not our fault :P
<cyphermox> meh
<flocculant> stevehope: stick around next cycle - you can get in on these things when we do them - all about freezes
<cyphermox> personally, I rather late than not polished for this cycle
<knome> so, err, let me push...
<cyphermox> it looks rather worse if it still reads "16.10" and yakketys, as opposed to if it's "late" and nobody noticed because we snuck it in some respin.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> it did last week ... 
<cyphermox> hehe
<cyphermox> I know I did my fair share of manually fixing translations ;)
<knome> cyphermox, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/revision/778
<knome> cyphermox, let me ask again... do you want the official paperwork?
<knome> the xubuntu docs team approves (me), the xubuntu artwork team approves (me), the xubuntu council approves (me), the ubuntu documentation team approves (me)
<cyphermox> yes, please file a bug and merge proposal
<knome> does not affect translations
<knome> merge proposal? :P
<cyphermox> no problem
<knome> i just pushed to the main branch...
<cyphermox> ah, good enough
<knome> but i'll go file that bug
<cyphermox> sorry, just running on autopilot..
<knome> just a sec
<flocculant> I assume the new driverless printing thing will work on Xubuntu? anyone got any clue there ...
<knome> cyphermox, bug 1681940
<ubottu> bug 1681940 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[Final Freeze Exception] Update Xubuntu thank you slide animal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681940
<flocculant> knome: thanks for doing that stuff :)
<knome> no worries
<knome> i'm so seasoned doing this i don't even notice ;P
<flocculant> hah
<knome> maybe that's not a good thing though...
<knome> well it's been a while since i did the last exception paperwork
<flocculant> does that bug need a qa ack?
<knome> well, you can add one if you think it does :P
<knome> usually i think it's the reporters problem if the local QA team attacks them
<knome> not the headache of the release team...
<flocculant> :)
<knome> especially since this change only affects image and simple text files :P
<knome> there is 0 regression potential
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> (and when i say that, this change will blow our ISO)
<flocculant> just didn't want to go to sleep and it be needed :D
<flocculant> knome: re slideshow - next cycle, if we are looking to completely change things - let's do that earlier :)
<knome> absolutely
<bluesabre> flocculant: re EOL - Packages not maintained by us continue getting updates while they are supported, but we  don't guarantee any support ourselves.  If we wanted to, we could continue support as long as the archive is open
<knome> ochosi, did you see the new slideshow animal art?
<knome> cyphermox, did you talk infinity into uploading it yet? ;)
<cyphermox> sorry, I hadn't gotten back to your slideshow yet
<ochosi> knome: haven't had time yet
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/slideshow-1704/zapus_slide_4.png
<cyphermox> uploading now
<ochosi> knome: haha, very subtle!
<knome> cyphermox, thank you very much sir
<Unit193> Unapproved: ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (zesty-proposed/main) [124 => 125]
<knome> woooo
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-12
<bluesabre> knome: are we attached to the way the headers are  currently on the release notes, or can I fix the sections?
<knome> feel free to fix anything that isn't right
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'm sure somebody will come in behind me and do the same :D
<knome> especially now that we aren't doing includes from the main release notes, whatever works for us is goof
<knome> err
<knome> good
<bluesabre> goof
<bluesabre> I like it
<knome> :)
<knome> maybe that too
<bluesabre> Changes made, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
<bluesabre> probably going to tidy up the issues list as well
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'll look at the release announcement for the website tomorrow
<bluesabre> Alrighty, done messing with the release notes http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
<bluesabre> flocculant: allllllll yours :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks re release note :)
<flocculant> but on the other thing do you mean some xfce package would stop getting updated in the archive? cos that doesn't make sense to me? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I mean that we'd stop updating the package for that and any other non-EOL releases
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> if you wanna update your quick and dirty packaging with the updated patch, i can get more testing for it
<ochosi> as i said, functionally it was already working fine. it was just the primary entry that was added to the menu twice (silly me)
<bluesabre> ochosi: fails to build
<bluesabre> xfce4-panel/xfce4-panel/panel/panel-preferences-dialog.c:501: undefined reference to `panel_str_is_empty'
<bluesabre> bbabl
<ochosi> woot? crap. built for me. never check in stuff after midnight :(
<ochosi> i'll check again tonight
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmk - seems a bit meh but ok :) I might have ubuntu supported for 5 years and really prefer parole to the gnome thing :)
<flocculant> just wanted it right in my head - someone was trying to get help in #x yesterday 
<stevehope> question on the release notes, For new installs a swap file will be used instead of a swap partition. < does this apply to upgrades?
<encomjones> why a swap file instead of a swap partition 
<knome> stevehope, no, existing partitioning will always be kept, including swap
<knome> encomjones, i don't remember where, but there's an explanation on the rationale behind that in some developers blog somewhere
<knome> eg. this isn't an active decision by the xubuntu team, but we are (at least) good enough with the change that we won't strive to differ from the ubuntu desktop here
<encomjones> okely dokely 
<stevehope> knome, thanks, didn't recall a change in swap during testing, maybe clarification?
<stevehope> Existing linux swap partitions retained...
<stevehope> So in the event of an upgrade user doesn't remove legacy swap, thinking its now a file, breaking new and old installs
<stevehope> *post install
<stevehope> the reasoning may be too conveluted, lol it's how I think :P
<stevehope> or you could replace the word "new" with the correct term for what you intend 'clean' ;)
<knome> yes, that might do it...
<knome> though "clean" is a correct term too :P
<knome> but maybe it wouldn't hurt to mention that "Upgrades aren't affected by this."
<knome> though then i'm not sure how many people who upgrade read the release announement/notes
<knome> or for that matter, how many people in general read them :P
<stevehope> I'm quite new here, still getting a feel for expectations of edit / not significant enough to warrant change here
<stevehope> i used to work in q&a
<stevehope> * despite the fact that I have the spelling of an eight year old =]
<knome> no worries :)
<knome> it's always good to have more people looking at things
<knome> history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement...
<stevehope> i'ld prefer to try to just give my suggestion instead of trying to be verbose... ie new = [clean, upgrade]; clean != new if thats ok?
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: i'm going to pick up a delivery from the netherlands in a bit...
<knome> ->
<flocculant> knome: flying?
<ochosi> knome: oookay? i thought we were expecting something from .hu..?
<stevehope> @knome "history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement..." because more often than not, the contents isn't current or correct, self fulfilling prophecy
<meetingology> stevehope: Error: "knome" is not a valid command.
<stevehope> knome "history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement..." because more often than not, the contents isn't current or correct, self fulfilling prophecy
<flocculant> bluesabre: changed the changelog bit - a lot
<flocculant> stevehope: added re swap file and upgrade
<ochosi> crap, just fixed another small issue in greybird :/
<stevehope> :)
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> how're things flocculant?
<flocculant> I'll be glad when it's Friday ;)
<flocculant> other than that - everything is tickety boo :D
<stevehope> if friday gold day?
<stevehope> is
<flocculant> friday is long weekend ;) and also release+1 day ...
<stevehope> ah, I'm retired i'm still on my last long weekend
<flocculant> bluesabre - couple more smoke tests for the tracker and assuming no respins overnight I'll mark the release in the morning
<flocculant> and anyone else wondering :(
<flocculant> ugh
<flocculant> :)
<stevehope> ill get the incomplete 386 desktops ISOs, so they have a result
<flocculant> stevehope: doing those here too :)
<stevehope> well two tests are better than one and I'm already zsync'ing si might as well keep going
<flocculant> stevehope: I hope you hang around during the next cycle - we can find you things to do - we need to test testcases against new early in the cycle - getting closer to LTS cycle so we'll be thinking about package testing again
<flocculant> and yea - as many results as possible is good :D
<flocculant> stevehope: do you use hardware or vm's?
<stevehope> Both, I use one or the other, depends on the specific test 
<flocculant> k - useful to know :)
<stevehope> as i have a limited selection of hardware to test with, if Im emulating I use virtualbox
<flocculant> righ
<flocculant> t
<flocculant> I have a very limited selection of hardware - so mostly hardware test only at milestones - though I will be using the 'next' version as soon as the toolchain is open and we actually have 17.10 available
<flocculant> then I kill it with the help of ochosi bluesabre and Unit193's ppa's and things during the cycle :p
<stevehope> * I run virutalbox in the default setting for a Ubuntu 64 system, with ISO in cd, with the exception i give the virtualbox 4gb ram for performance
<flocculant> I think slickymaster / slickymasterWork uses vbox, me and akxwi-dave (afaik) both use kvm now
<flocculant> I do for sure :)
<slickymasterWork> nopes flocculant
<stevehope> I intend to learn kvm, have in installed, exploring docker-machine to manage vm's kvm next
<slickymasterWork> for a while now I've only been using VMware
<stevehope> would you recommend VMware over kvm in general?
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: oh right - some thing other than kvm still though
<slickymasterWork> I'm using it on windows hosts stevehope, not on linux hosts
<slickymasterWork> yes, flocculant
<flocculant> stevehope: I find kvm/qemu to be a lot quicker - though could obviously not be the case in reality
<stevehope> ah, i guess you're up to speed on bash on ubuntu on windows and the other parts of the win linux subsystem
<stevehope> i was playing around with it before i swtiched to xubuntu for all my computers https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about
<flocculant> stevehope: can you go to http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes - I added workround to the system encryption locale issue - does it make sense to you?
<flocculant> or indeed anyone else who happens to be idling the day away reading in here :)
<flocculant> having checked it out - I can at least confirm the bug and workround :D
<slickymasterWork> I would put some sort of separation between the bug description and the start of the workaround explanation, flocculant
<flocculant> what like a space? 
<slickymasterWork> I dunno
<slickymasterWork> you already have a space
<flocculant> cos there is one of those :D
<slickymasterWork> maybe the word workaround in bold
<flocculant> hang on 
<slickymasterWork> ou underlined
<flocculant> check now
<slickymasterWork> excellent 
<flocculant> :)
<slickymasterWork> just one last thing flocculant, there's an extra space between ( and Use, in ( Use F3)
<knome> flocculant hasn't learned the importance of whitespace (or lack of it) yet apparently :P
<stevehope> Yes, other suggestion though *ducks* "System encryption password set before setting keyboard locale (1047384) Workround: Start the installation with the correct keymap. (Â Use F3) to set your keymapÂ beforeÂ booting either installation option" not correct, the crypt password was moved from some acsii display, grub? to the slides, in one of the recent respins, current workaround, goto next slide to set keyboard, back up one slide.
<flocculant> lol
<slickymasterWork> hey knome
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: > http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes?do=revisions
<knome> good evening
<slickymasterWork> i saw it flocculant
<knome> i anvil it
<knome> :Ã
<slickymasterWork> lol
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: did you see the revison reason :D
<flocculant> stevehope: don't understand what you're saying there
<slickymasterWork> nopes flocculant, just saw the revision made
<slickymasterWork> will see it now
<flocculant> and good evening knome :)
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: :p
<slickymasterWork> hahahah flocculant
<stevehope> if you step through the instalation slides you'll get it
<knome> i'll move stuff to the announcement on the website soon unless you are planning huge changes :P
 * slickymasterWork not trying to steal the nitpicking position in the team which is already taken
<flocculant> stevehope: I'm not talking about slides - and our slides don't mention that afaik - I'm referring to a bug 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: you and kryten share that crown - always too late with the comments though normally :D
<slickymasterWork> that's true
<flocculant> :)
<stevehope> I know the bug you are reffering to, i was present in a zesty final ISO, then a respin created a new slide to enter the password in the slide interface, instead of dropping to ascii, and having to enter it there, the only issue now is moving the keyboard select back 1 slide, and the bug is totally gone
<stevehope> *it was present
<flocculant> not sure then - not something I saw
<flocculant> knome: 9 attempts to login to x.org :(
<flocculant> would have been so much quicker just to ask you if you started the announcement post yet :D
<stevehope> I don't want to be perceived as new most irritating nittpicker, I can understand if you think it's a nit not worth picking, if you simply don't believe me enter the information manually on an encrypted install yourself
<flocculant> stevehope: not at all - I really don't get what you mean here - can you screenshot it?
<stevehope> yes
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> cos nit-picking is what qa should do anyway - as long as it's not about circles or ellipses :p
<knome> flocculant, not yet
<knome> but i'm digging into it literally now
<stevehope> I would have to find one of the previous spins in final, for the previous display, which I consider a complete waste of time, I will prepare install screenshots of current behaviour to save you actually reading the order of the slide's, I don't consider this a constructive exercise though
<flocculant> stevehope: oh
<flocculant> if it happened - but doesn't now I'd not worry too much
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: I use KVm on main machine, virtualbox on laptop and another PC, along with bare meta
<knome> ok, draft at https://xubuntu.org/?p=4295&preview=true
<knome> do we want to list all of the notable issues on the announcement? i was thinking we might condense the parole bugs to one line about parole having issues...
<knome> also not sure if sgt-puzzles and indicator plugin are worthy enough
<knome> the bugs, that is
<knome> also created https://xubuntu.org/release/17-04/ if somebody wants to get poetic
<knome> i also notice that we create links with non-existent links... they just point to the page itself so it's *just fine* to have that for a day (though i'll fix that later)
<knome> we also seem to be linking to direct download locations
<knome> which is a bit meh
<knome> so meh
<knome> i'll remove the "release"
<knome> need to fix THAT
<flocculant> knome: re parole - I'd have them on one line - detail is elsewhere
<knome> yep
<knome> let me work that out
<flocculant> we recommend you to use > we recommend that you use 
<knome> maybe mention thunar's issues first?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I'd not get too specific on any tbh - specifics are on release note
<flocculant> list of new package versions (since 14.04 LTS), < remove the (14.04) bit
<knome> draft updated
<knome> oh right, yes
<knome> see, i'm copy-pasting from the 16.04 announcement :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> and new update
<knome> bbiab
<flocculant> you really should release lock :p
<flocculant> available as Torrents > torrents and later too
<knome> ugh
<knome> saved and released
<knome> not the article, the lock...
<flocculant> knome: looks ok - ty
<flocculant> in other news ... is Show all mirrors with full information supposed to do more than it actually does?
<knome> what does it do?
<flocculant> just shows what you are already looking at :)
<knome> have you got JS enabled?
<flocculant> *shrug*
<knome> well it's supposed to expand the list
<knome> and, yeah..
<knome> urgh
<knome> need to fix that too for non-js-enabled
<flocculant> no java installed here seems
<flocculant> guess I had no reason up to now
<knome> java != javascript
<flocculant> knome: you want me to bug report that? so it's not forgotten? 
<knome> that would be nice, thanks
<knome> guess i'll report the release bug myself
<stevehope> re encryption entry in encrypted install, is now the 3rd interactive slide, this was done to address the old method of entering password in a low res acsii type interface, slide 3 was added, however it was inserted before current slide 4 where the keyboard localization is set, the bug is almost fully addressed, the keyboard localiztion simplely need to be set as slide 3. not it's current order: 1, 2, drive password, keyboard should be 1, 2, keyboa
<flocculant> knome: about:config tells me javascript is true
<knome> weird then
<stevehope> is there still a need for me to screenshot the slides individally?
<knome> flocculant, how many links do you see before the "all mirrors" link?
<flocculant> knome: if you mean countries - 13
<knome> ok,
<knome> and when you click the link do you still only see 13?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> yeah, it should show more, and an "info" link for each
<flocculant> though url is now http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/#show-all
<knome> that's expected
<knome> which browser?
<flocculant> ff 52
<knome> me too...
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/temp/mirror-links.png
<knome> this is what you should get after clicking
<flocculant> knome: ack - not sure I have 'ever' seen that
<flocculant> stevehope: ohhh ... when you're talking about slides you're talking about the installation stages - yea that's right, I see what you're saying now :)
<flocculant> hence the workround 
<flocculant> set keymap before installation gets that far
<knome> flocculant, since your bug is so random, so is debug... what do you see when you go to view-source:http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/themes/xubuntu-theme/xubuntu-fifteen/script-releases.js?ver=2
<flocculant> knome: might be my 'kicking around forever and a day' ff profile - works on a default iso boot 
<knome> or in other words, do you see some codE?
<knome> some caching might be related too
<knome> and once you load that page....
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24369199/
<knome> press F5 and see if it updates
<knome> that looks as it should though
<flocculant> knome: seeing info now 
<knome> so apparently cache
<flocculant> and more links
<flocculant> really should remember to f5 before I say anything lol
<knome> commented on the bug - leaving open as i'll do $something for it anyway
<knome> that *should* fix the cache issue for people
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> ty :)
<knome> yw
<knome> happy to help, especially as this let me discover that other, more critical bug :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> too bad i have to fix it now...
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> but there's two sides to that too.. fortunately it's an easy fix but otoh, is hould have noticed this before...
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r505 Revert workaround for broken border in progressbar (#153)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, release notes are looking pretty darn good now
<bluesabre> next release, the changelogs will just need to be s/zesty/acrobatic/ and that will be done for the cycle
<krytarik> flocculant: Indeed found something to nitpick on in the release notes: "Workround:" :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-13
<flocculant> bored with zesty now :D
<ochosi> yeah, lets move on to aa already!
<flocculant> :)
<knome> club aa, here we come!
<knome> on another note, let's prepare the online docs stuff
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1704/ is up, not linked to yet
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> stll think too many headings :D
<knome> maybe the additional languages text could be less prominent, but otherwise i think it is what it is :P
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/index1704.html waiting...
<knome> it has no 1610 then
<knome> ...
<knome> actually
<knome> let's dump this page
<knome> let's just make it point to http://xubuntu.org/help/
<flocculant> afaict all we need is remove the Welcome to line and it won't look repetitive
<flocculant> or do that :p
<knome> not the release startpage :P
<knome> but the whole docs subdomain startpage
<knome> because we now have intelligent code on website
<knome> that updates a very similar list for us automatically
<flocculant> first aa task for testers is setup and ready to go :D
<knome> heh
<flocculant> and now work :(
<flocculant> cya later - have a good day
<knome> you too
<flocculant> while I remember - I'm out tonight so someone else can watch -release for the all clear 
 * flocculant passes that task on to Xubuntu Council :p
<knome> ack
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> releaase note is all cleaned up and ready - removed draft note and thanked testers specifically :)
<knome> pleia2, FYI, the "docs-startpage" branch stuff is not used any more - instead, i'm redirecting the root of docs.xubuntu.org (with php for now, let's figure out what we want to do later) to http://xubuntu.org/help/ which basically has the same information automatically built - and links to the subdirectories as well
<knome> so with that, i'll also remove the link to that external page from the menu <3
<knome> i hate those...
<knome> and that's that for that
<knome> bbl
<knome> akxwi-dave, we aren't released, right? ...right?
<akxwi-dave> true..
<akxwi-dave> just getting ready for release.
<knome> good
<akxwi-dave> you need everything in place FOR release
<knome> yep
<stevehope> got my (now) redundant iso tests that i had in progress finished, I want to do the odd bit of testing in the interim til the next cycle, packages be a suitable pick?
<knome> pleia2, IS #29811, IS #29815 (you're CC)
<pleia2> ty
<knome> actually you are requestor :P
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-17-04-release/
<stevehope> knome the copywrite footer is dated 2012
<knome> 2012â
<stevehope> ah, didn;t know the convention used here
<knome> thank you everybody who contributed to 17.04 in any way!
<knome> and now... bbabl/bbl
<pleia2> happy release everyone!
<pleia2> social media all informed
<stevehope> happy release :-D
<akxwi-dave> Well done all and happy Release....  :-)
<Zeioth> happy release guys, congratulations!!
<ochosi> happy z-day everyone!
<Spass> hi all, thank you for another great release
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2017-April/001210.html ;D
<knome> eh
<ochosi> A
<ochosi> AA
<ochosi> AAA
<ochosi> AAAA
<knome>  AAA
<knome>  AA
<knome>  A
<knome> contro corrente!
<ochosi> well done
 * knome bows
<Unit193> So, who's in the chair next?  (Pun intended.)
<knome> slickymaster, 
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Mark said to go outside.
<knome> specifically mentioned bluesabre should lave.
<knome> leave too
<bluesabre> hm?
<knome> j/k
<bluesabre> HM!?
<Unit193> bluesabre: The -announce mail I Linked. :P
<bluesabre> aaaaaaaaaaaaaah I see
<bluesabre> Going outside for now
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> :)
<knome> hf
<Unit193> I would, but there's....Air out there?
<knome> i guarantee, there's some "air" inside here as well.
<Unit193> Well, can't say dogs, can't say people, can't even really say 'sunlight' either.  Had to come up with something!
<knome> heh.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-14
<Unit193> bluesabre: Dowh, #x
<Unit193> (IOW, Xfce bug 13422 sounds fun.)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13422 in General "Option "Show category names" turns itself off when used with "Category icon size - none" ." [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13422
<knome> xubuntu.org, www.xubuntu.org, xubuntu.com and www.xubuntu.com should now all redirect to https://xubuntu.org/
<knome> if you notice any weirdness, ping me
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> (and i'll take the info further)
<knome> next up is let's encrypt for our subdomains
<Unit193> Gogo StartCom! :--D
<knome> convince pleia2 if you feel like one is better than the other
<Unit193> (I'm kidding, that's now generally untrusted.)
<knome> ok, then sounds like our thing! (:
<knome> pleia2, bug 1682797 for your convenience
<ubottu> bug 1682797 in Xubuntu Website "SSL certificate for development server subdomains" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682797
<knome> should set up the dev tracker too
<knome> hmm.
<knome> that means i should know my password.
<Unit193> Well I don't!
<knome> me neither...
<Unit193> Also, I've seen a few tracker nicks drop in here, but only ones saying anything (that I remember or saw) were team members testing or playing.
<knome> yep
<knome> euuuuugghh.
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-a-roadmap is the new umbrella
<knome> will be setting up other stuff later today
<Unit193> [xubuntu-doc] Move lp:xubuntu-website/docs-startpage as a build target for xubuntu-docs: TODO  heh.
<knome> yeah no.
<knome> ok, i've also set up the sub-blueprints
<knome> now to link them to the main one too
<knome> done
<knome> now to send a mail about this...
<Unit193> I already got the emails.
<knome> !conga-rats
<ubottu> â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<knome> done
<knome> time to get on with other things
<knome> on and off for a while, then gone
<knome> o/
<pleia2> knome: thanks, I'll look into it in a bit
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-15
<flocculant> bluesabre: assuming everything pans out ok - will we be doing another thunar SRU to deal with the issue the last fixes caused?
<bluesabre> flocculant: yup, once we have a fix, we'll make it available
<stevehope> if anyone has a moment to look in #xubuntu for a wpa question?
<flocculant> bluesabre: there is a fix - being tested (or at least some testing requested) now ish
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-6-0-released-tp49119.html (by Eric Koegel)
<Unit193> 0_o
<bluesabre> oh new garcon :o
<bluesabre> flocculant: awesome, let me know if I need to do anything with that
<bluesabre> - Fix missing menus when all items are in submenus (bug 11801)  sounds interesting
<ubottu> bug 11802 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #11801 Please add update-notifier to default.session" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11802
<flocculant> bluesabre: will do - hope to get some response on the testing soonish
<bluesabre> ubottu: gnome? why? :'(
<ubottu> bluesabre: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * bluesabre approves
<flocculant> just hoping that this latest patch fix isn't yet another chasing tail thing :p
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-13-0-released-tp49122.html (by Eric Koegel)
<pleia2> received t-shirt from hellotux
<knome> \o/
<knome> does it fit nicely?
<pleia2> yeah, it's good
<knome> good :)
<ochosi> kewl, good to hear pleia2 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-09
<flocculant> bluesabre: can we get this bug fixed prior to release bug 1762242
<ubottu> bug 1762242 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "ristretto can not open BMP files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762242
<Unit193> Eww, bmp.
<flocculant> yea - but I don't like irssi and I'd not eww a fix for that :D
<Unit193> Well I was kidding, found it amusing the closing remark about someone deciding to blame something, when the patch is clearly a workaround.
<flocculant> I know you were
<flocculant> anyway - I told someone if they did their bit then I'd do mine - and I now have ;)
<Unit193> Well, I'll test that patch, I have a bmp.
<flocculant> you're the kiddy :)
<flocculant> !team | thoughts on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-April/004387.html
<flocculant> what do I keep doing wrong with the stupid factoid :|
<flocculant> other than putting it in the wrong channel the first time lol
<krytarik> It doesn't like URLs. :P
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, prepped a package and can confirm patch successfully works around said issue.
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :)
<flocculant> krytarik: well that's good then 
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/8Ilh78co3i6DwTo0KQTf/
<leigh_on_sea_> another test
<leigh_on_sea> IRC test
<leigh_on_sea_> IRC test back
<ochosi> ali1234: noice! yeah, tags/branches was what i initially used (when i was still confused by the -a option)
<ochosi> ali1234: also nice and performant in its python version
<ochosi> almost done with the action icons btw
<flocculant> !team | apparently the bot fails a bit with urls ... so can you check this out and comment :)
<ubottu> apparently the bot fails a bit with urls ... so can you check this out and comment :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-April/004387.html
<ochosi> i followed the thread
<ochosi> the arguments make some sense tbh
<flocculant> bluesabre: might particularly be as interested as I am in slangaseks comment - re autotesting the iso
<ochosi> (the ones for dropping milestones)
<flocculant> ochosi: yup - pretty much been my pov for ages
<ochosi> oh, i hadn't read steve's reply yet
<flocculant> quite recent
<ochosi> the automated test-suite also uses ldtp, same as the xfce-test docker container
<ochosi> btw i'm all in for contributing and adjusting those tests for xubuntu
<flocculant> \o/
<ochosi> maybe worth to spend some time that would've otherwise gone into development into those automated test-suites
<flocculant> yea - be a long term gain for us 
<ochosi> my favorite is automating ubiquity (so far)
<flocculant> not looked at it at all 
<flocculant> anyway - I'm off now - night all
<egeezer> First visit
<vabi> Hello, I've started testing 18.04 daily release. First of all it's taking really long for it to even start on my hardware. Because of that bug: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=218581&p=3 I suppose it's not reportable?
<vabi> It was also present on 17.10 but startup took far less time.
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> vabi: hm, not sure, tbh i've never seen that bug before
<ochosi> wouldn't know why it's not reportable
<vabi> It's not xubuntu specific.
<ochosi> yeah, but we also report general bugs
<ochosi> we use the same platform as ubuntu (launchpad)
<ochosi> as you said, it's not going to go against a xubuntu component
<ochosi> but you can still report it
<ochosi> (we'll also not be the ones to fix it, no kernel hackers in this team)
<egeezer> What hardware, vabi?
<vabi> egeezer - fujitsu lifebook e8310
<vabi> egeezer - this bug is specific for "Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965"
<vabi> ochosi, ok so I'll try to report it later :D
<ochosi> if it's not already reported
<vabi> of course
<egeezer> I think the suspend problem on xubuntu is fixed, correct?
<egeezer> in 18.04, anyway
<ochosi> egeezer: which suspend problem? i think there are multiple
<egeezer> the one I saw was on a desktop - resumed with blank desktop, no input from mouse or keyboard
<egeezer> appears fixed now, no problems for my desktop anyway
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> good to hear
<egeezer> that's on Xubuntu Core, installed from the 03 April ISO
<vabi> Working for me too.
<vabi>  There is no image mounter in 18.04? It's also possible I've installed it myself in 17.10.
<ochosi> image mounter?
<ochosi> if you're talking about unpacking iso files, i think file-roller was able to do that
<vabi> I'm talking about mounting iso images as drive. My fault it's gnome-disk-utility feature.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-10
<knome> flocculant, yes, you can't forward links with the bot...
<bluesabre> flocculant: have you seen the issues described here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1762569 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762569 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-gtk3 must be out of the box" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/a/OoeiP visual differences between the 2
<bluesabre> there's also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1689008
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689008 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-gnome should be installed by default on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1762779
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762779 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "AttributeError: 'PanelConfig' object has no attribute 'source'" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: re 'have you seen issues described' not seen anything like that no - but only use calc and writer, as far as the smb one - as long as that's not going to lead to us having things we don't want then I've no gripe against it
<flocculant> ali1234: confirmed that - I thought bluesabre had dealt with that though 
<ali1234> i zsynced the daily and installed about an hour ago
<ali1234> at least i think i did...
<flocculant> ali1234: and did you see the timeout issue?
<ali1234> no, but this is on a laptop with bluetooth
<flocculant> oh right - good job you didn't then :)
<vabi> Anyone knows how fstrim is enabled in 18.04? No fstrim flie in cron.weekly
<flocculant> vabi: systemd it looks like - locate fstrim
<vabi> flocculant: thank You, despite that svideo GM965 issue 18.04 works fine for me.
<vabi> ...so far
<flocculant> nice :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just updating here - ahaving gnome-session-common and gnome-startup-applications being installed 
<bluesabre> flocculant: doesn't seem like something new since the 4th https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1522889195&rev2%5B1%5D=1523397435&difftype=sidebyside
<ali1234> ochosi: i cane up with a gtkrc hack to fix adwaita gtk2 and xfce-panel
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mcg5xXg3yY/ this makes it look like it did in 16.04
<ali1234> i have not checked if it is identical. but this fixes the cut off icons
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: UIFe approved, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1761623
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761623 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Fix inconsistencies in the elementary-xfce icon theme" [Undecided,Triaged]
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-11
<ochosi> ali1234: while that looks plausible, how else would you ship that than including it with adwaita?
<ali1234> no idea, you're the theme expert :)
<ali1234> could it go in xfce4-panel?
<ochosi> the main issue i see is that getting it included in the latter as bugfix in time is probably hard, right jbicha?
<ali1234> adwaita actually has a "hacks.rc" which has a few things like this
<ali1234> oh i don't expect it to be fixed in 18.04
<ochosi> shipping it with any xubuntu pkg would probably be unconditional, so it sould affect *every* theme
<ali1234> would that necessarily be a bad thing?
<ochosi> for 18.10 i hope we can ship more 4.13 components, including the panel
<ochosi> yeah, potentially
<ali1234> it would affect every theme yes, but only xfce4-panel
<ali1234> or... maybe the problem really is in xfce4-panel and we could just fix it :)
<ochosi> just sucks if you change the genetal behaviour only becsuse adwaita gtk2 changed
<ochosi> nah, in the gtk2 version we shouldnt try to fix such trivialities anymore imo
<ochosi> i'd rather spend time on cleaning up deprecations etc in gtk3
<ali1234> i don't see clipped icons in any other software, and it isn't caused by the size of the panel, so it must be doing something wrong in the way it is constructing the widgets
<ali1234> do you know for sure it doesn't do the same thing in the gtk3 version?
<ali1234> i have not tried it
<ochosi> adwaita at least doesnt
<ochosi> i already pushed some sane defaults to the gtk3 panel
<ochosi> this is much easier to control with gtk3
<ochosi> so far all themes worked fine
<ali1234> i looked at the greybird gtk2 rcs - there's a lot of workarounds in there...
<ochosi> ofc
<ochosi> its historically grown
<ali1234> for specific programs i mean
<ochosi> i havent questioned 90% of its content in years
<ochosi> i'll gladly drop gtk2
<bluesabre> :o
<ali1234> you'll be lucky
<ochosi> but as that is not realistic in the near future i'll keep it all there
<ali1234> give it another 5 years and maybe
<ochosi> but i'll also not invest any time tbh
<ochosi> i rather try to push versus 4.14
<ochosi> keeping up with gtk3 theming is enough work as it is ;)
<ali1234> ironically Adwaita gtk2 is actually really good
<ali1234> it's been completely revamped since 16.04
<ochosi> well they reworked it recently as a community effort
<ochosi> 90% pixbuf engine now
<ochosi> not exactly efficient...
<ali1234> it only has custom CSS for three apps: gimp, chrome, and libreoffice
<ochosi> but probably nobody cares too muvh
<ali1234> oh and vim for some reason
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, i looked at the source a while ago
<ochosi> but never really tested it tbh
<ochosi> anyway, i know this is partly boring, but if you wanna help with finalizing the panel for 4.14 - any help is appreciated!
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep now
<ochosi> nighty
<ali1234> i will probably install it when i upgrade to 18.04
<ochosi> sounds like a good first step ;)
<ali1234> right now i am finalizing the workarounds i need to do that
<bluesabre> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/364395163/xubuntu-community-artwork_18.04.0_source.changes chilling in the queue
<bluesabre> And there it is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-community-artwork/18.04.0
<bluesabre> nighty all
<flocculant> bluesabre: definitely new here https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GbKgbSYbcV/
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - do we know offhand what causes the slow change to wallpaper at login for some? 
<krytarik> flocculant: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.28.0-0ubuntu4 - and why have you got gnome-session-bin installed?  And neither of those are on the images.
<flocculant> krytarik: maybe gnome-calc or gnome-dik-utility ?
<flocculant> if it's just me - that's fine
<krytarik> Neither looks like - try "apt -s remove gnome-session-bin"?
<flocculant> -session-common -startup-applications and -session-bin all could be removed
<krytarik> Well yay then, you don't need it!.. :P
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: sorry - I get a bit itchy when we're this close - and being tired doesn't help :p
 * flocculant thanks krytarik for being awake enough 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, everybody does
<bluesabre> I've got a bunch of noise in my bug inbox about "xfce-* doesn't work" and the bug report goes on to talk about running openbox, installing from the mini iso, or using gnome-settings to configure their gnome session :\
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume you saw the nmu of mugshot?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ah fantastic you picked up ristretto, sorry about that. :3
<Unit193> flocculant: gnome-session-bin came from software-properties before it was fixed, apt-get changelog should describe the timeline.
<bluesabre> Unit193: what does nmu mean again?
<Unit193> non-maintainer upload.
<tracker8> !team | flocculant will be mia until he gets his interwebs back again - see you sometime :)
<ubottu> flocculant will be mia until he gets his interwebs back again - see you sometime :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<albinard> checking in
<knome> on?
<albinard> just arrived - new poster, don't know proper hello form
<knome> hello :)
<knome> so are you interested in contributing to xubuntu or..?
<albinard> I've done a few tests of Xubuntu Core recent ISOs
<knome> aha, nice :)
<albinard> commented on the latest one on Mailing List today
<knome> i've seen some threads about it, yep
<albinard> what is the current status of Wayland in Xubuntu?
<knome> it isn't there and it isn't in the foreseeable near future that it's getting in
<knome> even xfce isn't supporting wayland yet...
<albinard> I wondered, because a recent update had some wayland bits in it
<knome> basically xfce needs gtk3 support first
<bluesabre> Working on translation releases tonight...
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/sgt-launcher/0.2/0.2.4
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.4/1.4.5
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.4/0.4.0
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-12
<bluesabre> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2018-April/000598.html
<bluesabre> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2018-April/000599.html
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 1.0.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-1-0-1-released-tp50897.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-4-1-released-tp50900.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<ali1234> why is the graphical ssh-agent not working in 18.04?
<ali1234> all the processes appear to be running
<ali1234> there's two copies of ssh-agent running
<ali1234> apparently it is because i did not copy id_rsa.pub and if you dont do this, you get asked for your passphrase every time on the terminal, instead of once in a UI
<vabi> Does anyone use spotify on xubuntu 18.04? In sound indicator menu cover art is not present.
<vabi> Maybe it's not destined for cover art but for application icon? I've installed spotify snap (by "software" application in menu). 
<donofrio> vabi, I use pianobar for pandora fwiw ;)
<vabi> So is there cover art in sound indicator menu? Or just application icon? :D
<vabi> To be specific I mean pulseaudio plugin in panel.
<vabi> Ok, I'm just stupid :D it's just lack of icon. I tried audacious and there is only player icon.
<donofrio> vabi, no pianobar is command line pandora client.... ;)  not what you were talking about at all...
<vabi> donofrio, just out of curiosity. Are there any obstacles to integrate console music player with PulseAudio plugin and desktop notifications?
<tracker1> HÄ° THER
<tracker1> where are you guys?
<tracker1> !JOIN
<tracker1> !join
<flocculant> I was reporting a bug 
 * flocculant has German on his software & properties :D
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-13
<donofrio> do you folks know how would I test if I'm using opengl accelerated using xfwm-4.13?
<Unit193> vinzv: I'm note sure what type of "integration" you're looking for, but pianobar doesn't do full mpris.  However, it does have hooks which allow it to use notifyd.
<Unit193> vabi: â
<vabi> Ok, thank you. I was searching it at irclogs.ubuntu.com just now. I should host my znc again...
<vabi> Or was it so quiet yesterday here?
<knome> sometimes it's quiet, other days not
<Unit193> Other days, we just laugh at knome.
<knome> yrd
<knome> yes too
<bluesabre> those are the best days
<bluesabre> ochosi: one you'll be interested in, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1763674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1763674 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "Fade out setting in preferences does not match actual setting" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: confirmed it a bunch of times in a vm and hardware :p added it to bp 
<FurretUber> The xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin is very prominent: https://i.imgur.com/d5nNcUY.png Is there a way to reduce its size?
<ali1234> not directly
<ali1234> basically the reason why it is different size to the others is because it is a totally different type of plugin, with different rules on how it is drawn
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds like a trivial fix. maybe we can still include it as a patch
<flocculant> ochosi: make everything a bug fix :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think it's something we can easily cover up by setting the default value in x-d-s explicitely, then the settings dialog shows the correct value. the problem only exists if the setting hasn't been set at all
<ochosi> but anyway, i'll patch up notifyd too for the future
<ali1234> any update on panel-switch? want me to do a patch?
<ochosi> ali1234: sorry, maybe i missed that
<ochosi> but patches are always welcome
<ochosi> bluesabre: craaaaap, there are still 16px m$office icons that are of the old and now misleading style...
<ochosi> 4 more icons to fix
<ochosi> can we still get those into 18.04?
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1762779
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762779 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "AttributeError: 'PanelConfig' object has no attribute 'source'" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> bluesabre: here is the fix for the broken office icons: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/3ab8783a130cbfdc8e1cdb1cba9cc602e75f037f
<bluesabre> ochosi: I thought I had included it in xds but will confirm
<ochosi> oh hey
<bluesabre> ochosi: we're still targeting that uife bug, can include it in there
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> in that case you can include two more vacuuming commits too
<bluesabre> Don't suppose you have an ETA for those icons yet?
<ochosi> what icons?
<ochosi> the ms office ones?
<ochosi> or "other remaining icons"?
<bluesabre> All the ones to be included in the uife 
<bluesabre> Vacuum, colors, ms
<bluesabre> The package just pulls the latest git commit
<ochosi> yup i now
<ochosi> i thought you had already pushed everything to 18.04
<bluesabre> Didn't get the notice that it was ready :)
<ochosi> hehe indeed
<ochosi> i thought you did it anyway
<ochosi> lemme do a quick checkup now
<ochosi> anyway, the current state is really not bad
<ochosi> regarding notifyd, you'll see i added two fixes to the bugreport
<bluesabre> Cool. If it's good to go, will upload tonight or tomorrow
<bluesabre> Nice
<ochosi> ali1234: strange, for me this works
<ali1234> how do i push bzr to launchpad?
<ali1234> nvm found it
<ali1234> linked it to the bug
<bluesabre> ochosi: those icons look nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: are there any other icons you're planning for bionic?
<bluesabre> Sorry I'm spammy, working from phone
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [LP-1763674] r678 Set the default value for fadeout in xfce4-notifyd (LP #1763... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<ali1234> MR sent :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i think i'm done. there are still some icons (probably less than 10) with the old gradient, but they don't really matter much and are ok as they are
<ochosi> also, i don't wanna drag this out endlessly
<ochosi> let's keep it as it is for 18.04
<ochosi> and the icon work is never-ending anyway...
<bluesabre> ochosi: sounds good to me
<ochosi> bluesabre: any other bugs for me now?
<bluesabre> ochosi: libreoffice-gtk3 is included as of today's iso, in case you want to look at the tab theming
<ochosi> btw i tested libreoffice-gtk3 with items from samba shares
<ochosi> didn't work
<ochosi> unfortunately
<ochosi> on 17.10 though
<ochosi> hrm, even arc has that weird border around the tabs
<ochosi> i'm not very optimistic that it's fixable for me
<ochosi> plus the stupid inspector doesn't work on LO
<ochosi> and reading the code always 1) eats a full evening and 2) makes my eyes bleed and my head hurt
<ochosi> looks like something that should be fixed upstream
<ochosi> gah, what a ginormous monolithic repository...
<ochosi> reminds me of cloning the linux kernel...
<ochosi> i may manage to take a look tomorrow
<ochosi> nighty
<bluesabre> ochosi: requires libreoffice-gnome
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-14
<flocculant> if anyone happens to notice that the try/install dialogue fails to wait and they land straight at desktop - it's reported and fix was on the way before that.
<ochosi> bluesabre: and i presume we include both in 18.04..?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r338 Update elementary-xfce to 3ab8783... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r339 Release 18.04.5 (by Sean Davis)
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for taking care of the artwork upload!
<albinard> hello
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-15
<bluesabre> !team | Please take a moment early this week to check if all of your important branch updates have been packaged up and released, let me know if we've missed anything. :)
<ubottu> Please take a moment early this week to check if all of your important branch updates have been packaged up and released, let me know if we've missed anything. :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<krytarik> xubuntu-docs just comes to my mind personally here..
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<bluesabre> morning krytarik 
<flocculant> luckily I can ignore the previous ping :p
<flocculant> btw " Am running xfce4 from the Xubuntu-Core iso (freaking brilliant btw)."
<bluesabre> krytarik: looks like we have the latest -docs uploaded
<krytarik> bluesabre: Morning.  And I think I'll just enable automatic translations export on that for a day or two - then you get to upload that too. :P
<bluesabre> krytarik: that sounds like a good idea
<krytarik> Ugh, hopefully no syntax errors this time..
<flocculant> bluesabre: not long now :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed
<bluesabre> get to try to fix some bugs this week
<bluesabre> hopefully faster than they are reported
<flocculant> just looked at the xfpanel switcher bugs - can't confirm ali1234's on the daily
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: but can confirm it on my local install \o/
<flocculant> locally I still have x.QA.Experimental ppa
<ali1234> i dont understand how you can't reproduce that
<ali1234> oh i know
<ali1234> you have to add a launcher item to the panel first to reproduce it. i will update the bug
<bluesabre> Just merged your fix
<ali1234> and i just updated steps to reproduce on the bug :)
<ali1234> i can repro it on the live image now
<ali1234> it's just that the default layout has no launchers at all
<ali1234> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> ali1234: aah ok
<flocculant> I know if you move stuff around and remove things it works fine - I guess that'llbe why it fails locally
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r678 Set the default value for fadeout in xfce4-notifyd (LP: #176... (by Sean Davis)
<ochosi> ali1234: that explains why i failed to reproduce it (never use launchers)
<ali1234> it is because launchers are stored outside xfconf, in ~/.local, as .desktop files, and that directory is what the source attribute refers to
<ali1234> or maybe its ~/.config
<ochosi> ah right
<flocculant> ali1234: manually created (not drag and drop ones) appear to be in .config/xfce4/panel here - I assume this doesn't affect your patch?
<flocculant> I assume not if I read the patch right
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, we didn't implement any workaround in the greeter or xfdesktop for the upgrade scenario (users need to re-set the wallpaper once after doing the upgrade - maybe worth mentioning in the upgrade notes)
<bluesabre> ochosi: hm?
<ochosi> didn't the accountsservice location of the user wallpaper change?
<ochosi> in bionic i mean
<ochosi> so if you have set your user wallpaper in 16.04 and then upgrade to 18.04 it will be (i guess) initially broken
<ochosi> https://answers.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+question/667968
<ochosi> (although that person also claims that it doesn't work in a clean install)
<bluesabre> I think they use the same path, just a different way to set it over dbus
<bluesabre> It might be worthwhile to spotcheck a few upgrade tests
<bluesabre> And yeah, if he claims to also see it on a clean install it's likely something different
<ochosi> as to your earlier question, i guess i don't have to remind you of the UIFe
<ochosi> and then apart from the x-d-s update that you already merged i guess there's nothing much from my side atm
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, just waiting for somebody to release those updates
<ochosi> alrighty
<bluesabre> ochosi: which earlier question?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok ok, it wasn't really formulated as a question... "Please take a moment early this week to check if all of your important branch updates have been packaged up and released, let me know if we've missed anything."
<bluesabre> gotcha... I thought that was it, but wasn't 100% :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> no worries
<flocculant> ochosi: some of the fonts in xfpm appear lighter than others - implies to me they're inactive - screenshot in bug 1764165
<ubottu> bug 1764165 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Tab fonts looks disabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764165
<flocculant> could possibly have talked about this during the cycle, but can't find any reference to it
<flocculant> checked on daily not just here btw ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: but that's the same for all tabs with greybird...
<ochosi> not limited at all to xfpm
<flocculant> oh right
<ochosi> just check any other application and compare
<ochosi> mousepad prefs: http://i.imgur.com/nWNrEGR.png
<flocculant> ochosi: well desktop settings looks ok
<flocculant> ochosi: I would expect if I started moving a slider or something that the font would look active
<flocculant> anyway *shrug* I guess
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> now i get it
<ochosi> sorry, i misunderstood your issue
<ochosi> i thought you were talking about the notebook tab text
<ochosi> of inactive tabs
<ochosi> but you were talking about the gtkscale values
<ochosi> those values are just hints, the rest doesn't have the disabled style
<ochosi> that's just so that the amount of text in the tabs doesn't get too much
<ochosi> and i think that's still a general greybird style
<ochosi> desktop settings is still gtk2
<ochosi> plus i don't see any scales there
<flocculant> ochosi: okey doke - just wanted to make sure it wasn't something you'd want to deal with :)
<flocculant> not convinced still though lol
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-verve-plugin 1.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-verve-plugin-1-1-1-released-tp50903.html (by Isaac Schemm)
<flocculant> not seen that word for a long time - and last time it was The Verve
<krytarik> flocculant: You got the verve, duude. :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-verve-plugin 2.0.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-verve-plugin-2-0-0-released-tp50904.html (by Isaac Schemm)
<krytarik> And looking at the screenshot now, I guess I have to agree with you here.. >_>
<krytarik> Looks disabled!
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> night all :)
<krytarik> Nighty. :)
<jarnos> Can you upgrade from Xenial to Bionic before release and maybe perform some tests? I tried the ISO already using grub on existing installation..
<jarnos> Is it so that Indicator plugin is not used anymore? I found the xfce-pulseaudio-plugin is great.
<ochosi> indicator-sound isn't used anymore
<ochosi> xfce4-indicator-plugin is still used
<bluesabre> xfpanel-switch can be used to upgrade to the Xubuntu Bionic panel layout after a distro upgrade
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> for some reason after today's upgrade i can no longer launch vlc or smplayer
<GridCube> smplayer complains that it doesnt have access to libGL.so.1, even tho locate does found it, and vlc says "cannot instantiate dialogs provider"
<TJ-> Did you restart the X server after the package upgrades?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i just tried to install libgl1 and libgl1-mesa-glx and the first one just said "it can not be installed" the second one said that it was in it's most recent version but trying to reinstall it said, "it can not be installed, can't download"
<TJ-> libGL is provided by the Xorg drivers for the GPU, so e.g. nvidia provides it's own. 
<GridCube> i'm using the generic drivers
<GridCube> the problem seems to be that libgl is not reachable right now
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-08
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: ristretto 0.8.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-ristretto-0-8-4-released-tp52948.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<bluesabre> we might want that ristretto
<Unit193> With a bunch of stuff filtered: 23 files changed, 395 insertions(+), 229 deletions(-)
<bluesabre> in case somebody with bug powers wants to look, I grabbed all the xubuntu-disco-related bugs and tossed them into a single place for review/dedupe/cleanup https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-tagged-disco
<brainwash> bluesabre: something for the known issues list: bug 1822380
<ubottu> bug 1822380 in thunar "right-click menu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822380
<brainwash> means there is no Create New Document in thunar right now
<knome> bluesabre, awesome bug work.
<knome> bluesabre, what do you think about using a "rolling" blueprint (spanning multiple releases) for bugs?
<knome> bluesabre, when a release is done, we could list all the bugs marked fixed somewhere, then do a cleanup and we would have a list of bugs we want to fix immediately
<knome> bluesabre, theoretically we could even split this blueprint into two: one for papercuts/low-hanging fruit and one for the rest
<knome> bluesabre, even once/when we migrate to a wp-based tracking, i'm pretty sure we want something like a blueprint for bugs for easier tracking at launchpad
<Spass> I think that the team should consider including "curl" and "git" tools in Xubuntu by default, they seem to be pretty basic tools and many people/projects assume that they're included in the distro
<Spass> examples: https://riot.im/desktop.html and https://www.signal.org/download/
<Spass> (both have "curl" in the commands that add a needed repo)
<brainwash> Spass: shouldn't they be included in general then?
<brainwash> so that every flavour and plain ubuntu have them onboard
<knome> Spass, most users won't ever need git... or want to use curl. they will only use them because tutorials on the internet tell them to do so. :P
<knome> and yeah, even if it was decided that those are essential enough to be on a system, i'd like to follow that decision downstream like brainwash mentioned
<knome> also why git, why not bazaar ;>
<knome> or both
<knome> or what about cvs or svn... or mercurial!
<Spass> yes, you're right, I probably shouldn't propose that here, my bad
<knome> no worries, proposals are better than not speaking and getting involved at all
<knome> (and remember it's not personal, we just have different thoughts on the subject matter)
<Spass> thanks and no problem, I understand that :)
<Unit193> knome: git would be the most useful to add in that list you gave, it is by far the most used.  bzr is pretty much a launchpad thing, and a lot of those are moving to git as well (also it's py2, I'd rather add brz)
<Unit193> brz/breezy
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-09
<bluesabre> Unit193: the changes for ristretto look pretty sane from what I can tell... I'm tempted to upload, though I know I probably shouldn't at this point in the cycle
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: added to the 19.04 bugs list
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Worth a shot? :P
<bluesabre> Indeed
<bluesabre> Night alllll
<bluesabre> Unless we find more fixes, that's probably the last upload from me this cycle :)
<knome> Unit193, yes, i'm just kidding. though bzr since it's a buntu thing.
<Unit193> I got that, though my point about bzr is pretty much 'not anymore'
<knome> sure
<knome> but really, i don't think we should ship any vcs.
<Unit193> I wouldn't think so either.
<brainwash> bluesabre: I was about to close bug 1778695, but after checking in 19.04 it is broken again
<ubottu> bug 1778695 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "ristretto ignores cr2 files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778695
<brainwash> tested with 0.8.3 and 0.8.4
<brainwash> works fine only in 18.10
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-11
<oleks> Hi, what is the default screensaver utility on Xubuntu?
<oleks> I am getting the error discussed in the following post, but the post is quite old, and I do not have light-locker installed (it seems)
<oleks> https://askubuntu.com/questions/462361/xubuntu-blank-screen-after-wakeup
<oleks> oh wait.. it is installed, sorry
<Spass> hello oleks, light-locker is default at the moment, bu it will be replaced by xfce4-screensaver in the future, personally I don't have a good experience with light-locker
<Spass> it doesn't work on any of my two machines and it crashed, so I replaced it with xscreensaver on my laptop and it works great
<Spass> (I've turned it off on my PC, since I don't really need a screensaver there)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-12
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: add lxd-installer to supported-cloud seed @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=53a2ce909e32e073955da38178834cf658f7cd7a (by Michael Hudson-Doyle)
<bluesabre> knome or pleia2, want to retweet https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/1116469759082504193 ?
<pleia2> bluesabre: done, thanks for the ping!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-13
<oleks> Spass: I came to prefer gnome-screensaver because I needed a login-screen that adhered to the language-pack used on the system
<gott> Gdebi won't work, probably due to no gksu on the system...
<Unit193> gott: I just tried it, and it installed a package fine.
<gott> On what edition?
<Unit193> Disco, since this is the development channel.
<gott> OK
<gott> Do you have gksu installed?
<Unit193> No, that's gone from the repos, gdebi doesn't reference it.
<gott> OK, hmm...
<Unit193> Re-ran xubuntu-meta, no updates.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-14
<flocculant> lovely - reboot with newest kernel and only 640x480 available - lucky for you I'm not running QA anymore or we'd not be releasing this on Thursday ...
<flocculant> bug 1824677
<ubottu> bug 1824677 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Display only has 640x480" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824677
<Unit193> ...That's an unacceptable resolution, very.
<flocculant> Unit193: yea :(
<Unit193> Considering I have nouveau...
<flocculant> well pointlessly said something in -release
<flocculant> there appears to be a real EE in the xorg log this time :p
<flocculant> probably should have reported it to the kernel not nouveau
<Unit193> Nevertheless, thanks for reporting and giving a heads up (of what I'll likely hit when I reboot...)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well I hope you hit it (sort of) at least I'll know it's not just me
<flocculant> Unit193: possibly it's just when a system upgrades - did a qemu install and it's ok there
<flocculant> affects someone else at least - at least that's what launchpad says ;)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I checked bug 1818395 for new comments, but nada
<ubottu> bug 1818395 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please demote lightdm greeter recommends to suggests" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818395
<brainwash> "Since each of the lightdm greeters should depend on lightdm,..."
<brainwash> is that a change which you propose? currently, neither lightdm-gtk-greeter nor unity-greeter actually depend on lightdm
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> python apps require and depend on python
<bluesabre> lightdm apps should require and depend on lightdm
<flocculant> Unit193: if you've not seen - the bug I reported has a work round for the moment
<Unit193> flocculant: I did indeed, that's good.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Though *technically*, it's more like 'Enhances' than 'depends', but yeah.
<brainwash> ochosi: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=a4dccd1a22af60836c62a54f4e8d0e53dbe795d0
<brainwash> so, default theme has now 4px wide window borders
<ochosi> brainwash: good for people who compained about resizing
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-06
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-shares-plugin 0.3.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-shares-plugin-0-3-1-released-tp58212.html (by Andre Miranda)
<bluesabre> For anybody curious, here's all the updated goodies in focal: https://wiki.bluesabre.org/focal_changes (bug lists are only from things in our packageset)... I'll be working on release notes over the next day or so
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/tree/data/DistUpgrade.cfg.bionic#n64
<bluesabre> Oh jeez I remember this now :D
<bluesabre> Guess I know what I'm doing tonight
<Unit193> Sorry.  I never thought of doing it for ll.
<jphilips> anyone know where this should be filed under 'Xubuntu 20.04 not created ".bashrc" during installation  and therefore does not work auto completion commands in the terminal.'
<bluesabre> Seems unlikely, but that file is installed to /etc/skel and copied to newly created home directories
<bluesabre> $ dpkg -S /etc/skel/.bashrc 
<bluesabre> bash: /etc/skel/.bashrc
<bluesabre> jphilips: the package you're looking for would be bash if thats the case
<bluesabre> Unit193: correct me if I'm wrong :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: would this be an installation problem
<jphilips> so filed under ubiquity?
<bluesabre> Yeah, that'd probably be closest to identifying the issue.
<Unit193> Well technically it's there, so adduser or something else, depending.
<pleia2> bluesabre: maybe Cc: me and to put lyz@ubuntu.com as the email address for them to send the addresses to (and forward on any who don't follow directions)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> crasher bug in xfce4-color-settings - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1867530
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1867530 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867530). The error has been logged
<ochosi> jphilips: that bugreport doesnt tell me much unfortunately...
<jphilips> ochosi: check the private duplicate
<jphilips> i cant access it
<jphilips> https://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg5734568.html
<jphilips> Joshua from ubuntu cinnamon in the #ubuntu-quality channel mentioned he came across the same bug
<ochosi> can't access the duplicate
<jphilips> bluesabre, Unit193: can either of you access this https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1835579
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1835579 not found
<Unit193> g_type_check_instance_is_fundamentally_a (type_instance=type_instance@entry=0x55c784f3f820, fundamental_type=fundamental_type@entry=80) at ../../../gobject/gtype.c:4025 g_object_unref (_object=0x55c784f3f820) at ../../../gobject/gobject.c:3243 color_settings_dialog_destroy (settings=0x55c784f3f910) at main.c:920
<Unit193>  _gtk_marshal_BOOLEAN__BOXEDv (closure=0x55c784e75ce0, return_value=0x7ffd4f544970, instance=<optimized out>, args=<optimized out>, marshal_data=<optimized out>, n_params=<optimized out>, param_types=0x55c784b19370) at ../../../../gtk/gtkmarshalers.c:129 _g_closure_invoke_va (closure=0x55c784e75ce0, return_value=0x7ffd4f544970, instance=0x55c784f3f910, args=0x7ffd4f544a40, n_params=1, 
<Unit193> param_types=0x55c784b19370) at ../../../gobject/gclosure.c:873
<ochosi> is that all the stacktrace that's there?
<Unit193> That's the comment by the retracer.
<brainwash> ochosi: you fixed that one upstream
<brainwash> I think
<ochosi> hm, it vaguely sounds familiar
<ochosi> it was about the dialog being unrefd, if i'm not mistaken
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/?id=ef0715288c36181bbb7061ebcee815fd14ed8708
<ochosi> that was the one i was also thinking about
<ochosi> did i forget to merge that to 4.14?
<Unit193> Gave you links in PM.
<ochosi> should be fixed in 4.14.2, if it's really the same bug
<brainwash> that version was only upload recently, or?
<brainwash> uploaded
<brainwash> 2020-03-09
<ochosi> oh ok
<brainwash> the report is from when?
<ochosi> i'd have to check the ubuntu source, the line from the traceback is empty in git master...
<brainwash> bug 1866114
<ubottu> bug 1866114 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfce4-color-settings:11:g_type_check_instance_is_fundamentally_a:g_object_unref:color_settings_dialog_destroy:_gtk_marshal_BOOLEAN__BOXEDv:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866114
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed nova-spiceproxy @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=177bbe96cdab8cd1211a1057c9dea4dc0106c2ed (by James Page)
<jphilips> just got this crasher - bug 1871230
<ubottu> bug 1871230 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "wrapper-2.0 crashed with SIGABRT in g_closure_invoke()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871230
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-15-2-released-tp58239.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-07
<guiverc> 20.04 qa-install on sony ultracrapbook; I'm getting a very brief uefi setup message before plymouth & login.. do you want me to report?
<guiverc> (appears to me uefi setup error "System boot loader not found .. loading defaults"  (I can't pause it so may not be exact error message)
<guiverc> (getting the error message on each reboot)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: New wallpaper for 20.04, update copyright @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=8570a9dc1b6b3b7b023b21a72af31553b1796e60 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<bluesabre> Unit193: So, xubuntu-community-artwork was approved, but now it's stuck in the New queue (new binary I think is the stopper)... as MOTU, can you give that a push?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not any more than you, no.  It's been uploaded, so that's where MOTU ends too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: gotcha, thanks.
<xu-help16w> i have asus k570ud laptop and xubuntu 19.10 after i dist-upgrade to kernel 5.3.0-46 my laptop has noise sound from inside it but there isn't noise when i bott it with kernel 5.3.0-45
<bluesabre> xu-help16w: Unfortunately none of us are equipped to handle kernel issues. You'll want to join #ubuntu (/join #ubuntu) to see if you can get support, and if you run "ubuntu-bug linux" in a terminal, you'll be able to report a bug against the kernel.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm actually surprised we're not shipping python2 in focal :o
<Unit193> None of our stuff pulls it in?  Shiny.
<bluesabre> GIMP and Pidgin I think are our only GTK2 holdovers... Not sure we'll live long enough to see those move entirely to GTK3 :D
<Unit193> https://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Roadmap#GIMP_3.0 maybe not as far out as you think.
<Unit193> I still have qt5-gtk2-platformtheme for Qt stuff. :/
<bluesabre> Wowza. Gotta respect how infinitely compatible Qt is.
<bluesabre> > New: accepted xubuntu-community-artwork [amd64] (focal-proposed) [20.04.0]
<bluesabre> knome: looks great, thanks for the wallpaper and UIFe work :)
<Unit193> Yeah, it's pretty cool that it has the ability to use GTK2 themes.  Nice!
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was surprised the other day to find out how many Qt applications I have installed.  Also, wxwidgets added a Qt backend.
<bluesabre> wxwidgets is pretty awesome. I wrote some code back in college with python and wxwidgets, and it still runs on everything.
<Unit193> Yeah, pretty sure I'd just have to switch build-deps to "port" it to Qt from GTK3. :3
<Unit193> wx might be underappreciated.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 20.04.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=cb9e309727b7d962bb295fe266acddfef62349cf (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> May have jumped ahead with that upload, but hey! :D
<Unit193> Did you see the cool new stuff debhelper can do?
<Unit193> I may have linked the announcement a month or two back.
<bluesabre> possibly... there's been an onslaught of activity around here lately so I haven't kept up
<jphilips> anyone else see a mysterious 'Volume' appear on their desktop - https://twitter.com/tb_lounes/status/1247310583906648064
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Minor updates to Focal wallpaper @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=12f9dd8e42d1a25756533f7721fef4eb828532c0 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Merge branch 'focal' of git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork into focal @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=3d29a6ece90a22b36fc6aac1aeb2f6b71e9968cb (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<gst568923> I have tested xubuntu 20.04 beta but I have this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware/+bug/1865130/comments/62
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1865130 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu) "[drm:uvd_v1_0_start [radeon]] *ERROR* UVD not responding, trying to reset the VCPU!!!" [High,Fix released]
<gst568923> this is my xubuntu 20.04 beta journalctl log: https://pastebin.com/H6suBBm3
<brainwash> gst568923: but that's a general bug
<brainwash> not something the Xubuntu team can help with
<gst568923> brainwash I received knossos456's answer on launchpad, and was told to ask in the support forums
<brainwash> gst568923: this here is the development channel
<gst568923> brainwash in this channel is not also included the discussion of ubuntu flavor bugs?
<brainwash> bugs related to the development of Xubuntu, and that means mainly its customized Xfce desktop environment
<brainwash> I haven't checked what the linked report is about, but it is very unlikely that we can help with it
<brainwash> there is #ubuntu+1 for general support or #ubuntu-kernel for kernel related questions
<gst568923> brainwash in my case, as you said that the bug is generic, however, it does not allow me to start xubuntu 20.04 beta
<brainwash> then it is something that should be fixed before release
<brainwash> the Radeon HD 3450 is really old by now, so it could be that no one is doing tests with this kind of hardware anymore
<gst568923> brainwash I have been using that graphics card for more than 10 years with the open source radeon driver and I have not had any major problems, except that I am reporting
<gst568923> brainwash also if I remember correctly the AMD company had released the open specifications for the models of the R600 series ....
<brainwash> gst568923: open source does not mean bug-free
<brainwash> you can find support for AMD graphics cards in #radeon
<brainwash> so, I gave you various channels which you can try to find help
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 20.04.2 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=410a908baf3ec1fbc276384ab5501ac6edd438a4 (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-08
<juliank> Heya, xubuntu folks
<juliank>   * xubuntu-docs                             build-depends on missing gnome-doc-utils:amd64
<juliank> Seems like xubuntu-docs has not been updated since bionic, and it's build-depending on gnome-doc-utils which is not in the archive anymroe
<bluesabre> juliank: thanks for the heads up. That does complicate things. :\
<Unit193> Only if we care about translations. :P
<Unit193> Err...Who do I now poke about possible email addresses to blacklist on the ML?
<jphilips> when did the new wallpaper get in?
<jphilips> or more importantly, who created it
<brainwash> jphilips: bug 1871357
<ubottu> bug 1871357 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New wallpaper for Xubuntu 20.04" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871357
<brainwash> knome makes the xubuntu wallpapers
<jphilips> sweet
<bluesabre> jphilips: there's a new new one in the repos as of ~2 hours ago
<bluesabre> Unit193: you're not going to believe this.
<bluesabre> > The proposal to merge lp:~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base into lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu has been updated.
<bluesabre> > Status: Needs review => Work in progress
<jphilips> bluesabre: i had seen franksmcb's tweet and wondered where it came from - https://twitter.com/franksmcb1/status/1247755489644924928
<bluesabre> jphilips: yep, so that one will be slightly different in tomorrow's image.
<bluesabre> but yes, knome is to thank for all of our nice wallpapers over the years
<jphilips> thanks for the update, as i was going to tweet the new wallpaper
<jphilips> and use it in facebook and twitter covers
<bluesabre> jphilips: here's the final one, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1REGWCQplddmNkf-NUHkwmWXxkjHFQtj4/view?usp=sharing
<bluesabre> or not
<bluesabre> jphilips: here's the final one, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1REGWCQplddmNkf-NUHkwmWXxkjHFQtj4/view?usp=sharing so you can get a head start
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Welp.
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks. any means to get the source file?
<jphilips> knome: ^^
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed ec2-instance-connect @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a36a36c2605418427613d720f94ae8e4af93a4e9 (by Balint Reczey)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-notifyd 0.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-notifyd-0-6-0-released-tp58249.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<TJ-> Testing the 20.04 20200408 installer image earlier the installer hung/stopped doing anthing, before creating the rootfs (after partitioning) - message in GUI was something like "Cleaning up packages"
<TJ-> Ahh, "Saving installed packages..."
<TJ-> Stuck at the same point again. Any debugging I can do to figure it out? nothing obvious in the installer log 
<bluesabre> TJ-: maybe the folks in #ubuntu+1 can help... we don't really deal with the installer itself
<TJ-> bluesabre: you were pinged in #ubuntu-quality ... I solved it a few minutes ago
<bluesabre> TJ-: gotcha, glad to hear you got it moving along :)
<TJ-> bluesabre: turned out to be a result of my needing to manually partition things, and as a result with a root-fs created by me, we HAVE to manually create the directory mountpoints in there before the installer runs - it doesn't create them when there's an existing file-system and its not allowed to do the format
<bluesabre> TJ-: I see, that's good to know
<Unit193> bluesabre: You don't want LiveFS xubuntu/bionic/amd64 failed to build on 20200408 right?
<Unit193> *bionic*
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure
 * bluesabre shrugs confusedly
<Unit193> To the -devel list.
<bluesabre> It might be good to automatically go there... maybe somebody will fix it (other than us)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-09
<bluesabre> I think I've cracked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1866537 if others want to confirm
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866537 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Show desktop shortcut doesnt work" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> bluesabre: I suggested that too
<brainwash> I wanted jphilips to test that, but apparently he didn't
<ochosi> looks like a reasonable patch
<Unit193> Isn't there something about empty blocking merge?
<brainwash> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=ae65195
<bluesabre> Unit193: what do you mean by that?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Configuration merge?
<bluesabre> It seems to work. Without defining the original shortcut as empty, xfwm inserts the original instead of merging by the key. So I think it actually blocks the blocking of the merge :)
<Unit193> (Not that it'd be an objection, but certainly would want to know going in.)  OK.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Fix Super+D shortcut by blocking the original (LP: #1866537) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f61a28d3bce9e94dc204dd9ba0dd71c00241a9e8 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> We'll go ahead and go for it. If it breaks something, we at least still have time to fix. :)
<Unit193> Where are 'xu-help' users from?
 * bluesabre doesn't know
<Unit193> 'i' is installer, 'w' is website...
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Refresh translations from Launchpad @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=daa150df0b4a29d63e474bff636ea3cf9b3b3e3c (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think you've mentioned this a few times before, but we can drop com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy.in now since mousepad provides one, right?
<Unit193> Wait, it does?
<bluesabre>  /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.xfce.mousepad.policy
<Unit193> I don't know if I knew this, if I did I may have mentioned that.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Yes, that's great.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: usr/share/polkit-1/*: Dropped, Mousepad now provides its own polkit actions @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=12062303ec55deefc6d2e7df4da6a4766e9d7937 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> \o/
<jphilips> Unit193: they are from the help page
<jphilips> xu-help
<Unit193> jphilips: That'd be 'd' for docs.
<jphilips> xubuntu.org/help/ has the link https://webchat.freenode.net/#xubuntu?nick=xu-help?w
<jphilips> people from xubuntu.org/irc/ have xu-irc?w
<Unit193> \o/
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: debian/control: Bump Standards-Version to 4.5.0 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=86a13985d8b33f136854471dab3283503545f911 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> I guess that changed silently..
<jphilips> yes i modified the username based on where they came from on the website
<Unit193> I suppose when someone updated links for the new webchat they were removed?
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: heads up since we've made some changes to xubuntu-default-settings this cycle, in case you mirror any of them on your side. https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/log/
<jphilips> Unit193: sorry didnt follow
<Unit193> jphilips: It's not important.  The site did have 'w' appended to the end like in the docs (https://webchat.freenode.net/#xubuntu?nick=xubuntu?d&prompt=1), I'm just thinking of when it was changed is all. :)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 20.04.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=e65e68bf358d2deb09bc154fbc8b9d23ddba36ab (by Sean Davis)
<jphilips> checking the docs, the link there doesnt work in providing a username - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu..d&prompt=1
<Unit193> Indeed, it used to with the old webchat.
<jphilips> so how do we fix it for the 20.04 docs
<jphilips> bluesabre: have the links in the installer slides been update?
<jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1834270
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834270 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "update link to xubuntu irc" [Medium,Triaged]
<jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1834269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834269 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "'Official documentation online' link not linking to latest docs" [Medium,Triaged]
<bluesabre> looks like a no to me
<bluesabre> jphilips: you'll want to comment on those bugs to see if we can get them moving. I'm not in the slideshow groups so I can't make the changes myself.
<bluesabre> I'd chase them myself, but I've already got too many things on my plate >.<
<jphilips> bluesabre: will do
<jphilips> when will https://docs.xubuntu.org/2004/ be accessible
<bluesabre> Unit193 might be able to set that up, otherwise pleia2 or knome 
<Unit193> Oh yey, old changes I never committed: http://paste.openstack.org/show/K5xa0qid5dzEIUIyRema
<jphilips> well in 'debian/copyright' you'll need to change it to 2020 now :D
<jphilips> okay i've sent in a patch for the installer, so now how do we fix the docs. is it a git repo?
<Unit193> It's already fixed in git.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add community seed, that will be ignored by components missmatches @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=0ca308d1be483b32b46099900b0b85aa69c666c6 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Thanks for the heads-up. Not much to change from our side, except the translations part is beyond my knowledge of how to implement, especially this late in the cycle.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add community seed, that will be ignored by components missmatches @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a85d10bfa951e16e2e10eb8499a56ca81b8f2f91 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<jphilips> just letting the team know that i've uploaded the new wallpaper into the media library on the website
<jphilips> is screenshooter defaulting to open screenshots in 'Feh' with 'Open with:' a bug?
<bluesabre> Seriously needs an irc bouncer
 * Unit193 bounces bluesabre.
<bluesabre> oh snap
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-10
<jphilips> did anyone have a reply to my message "is screenshooter defaulting to open screenshots in 'Feh' with 'Open with:' a bug?"
<jphilips> i sent in a patch for the installer slides for the link to the 20.04 documentation and sebastien said
<jphilips> "changing the string would break the translations, you probably to sed change the msgid/msgstr in the po files to workaround"
<jphilips> bug 1834269
<ubottu> bug 1834269 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "'Official documentation online' link not linking to latest docs" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834269
<bluesabre> jphilips: yes, that sounds like a bug. It should only affect the live session though, since we use feh there to draw the installer background
<jphilips> bluesabre: so file against casper?
<bluesabre> jphilips: file against xubuntu-default-settings, we'll need to figure out a way to not let feh grab defaults
<bluesabre> jphilips: commented on that bug where seb128 is clearly wrong
<bluesabre> Unless the url is included in the translations, in case he's right
<bluesabre> In which case, you can use sed/awk if you're comfortable, otherwise various code editors can replace all files in a project. Just replace all that url to hit the po files as well
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/Lfw6uIl.png
<jphilips> unfortunately i'm not familiar with sed/awk
<bluesabre> Yeah, don't do that.
<bluesabre> jphilips: where's the source code for the installer located at?
<jphilips> bluesabre: its a git repo
<jphilips> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<bluesabre> jphilips: thanks. I'll provide an extended patch shortly
<bluesabre> jphilips: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1834269/comments/15
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834269 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "'Official documentation online' link not linking to latest docs" [Medium,New]
<bluesabre> bbl
<jphilips> thanks
<jphilips> what does bbl stand for?
<Unit193> Be Back Later.
<jphilips> :D
<Unit193> pkg:bsdgames has a command that may help with that. :3
<jphilips> we use noto sans regular and noto sans bold as the default font and titlebar font, but when non-english characters appear, it doesn't fallback on the noto sans language variants that we ship. i believe there is some font config file that is used for fallbacks and does xubuntu ships its own or does it use the one from ubuntu
<bluesabre> jphilips: I don't think we do anything specific for it
<jphilips> bluesabre: what is your suggestion to this fix that i think should be builtin https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/1248627053139619842
<jphilips> that if arabic characters are used, noto sans should be falling back on noto sans arabic rather than dejavu sans
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-taskmanager 1.2.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-taskmanager-1-2-3-released-tp58278.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-11
<knome> updated https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/xubuntu-marketing/current, svg sources for cosmic->focal can be found there
<Unit193> bluesabre: AFAIk, nothing is pending on me.  I hope I'm not forgetting anything, yes?
<Unit193> And, Happy Easter, such as it may be.
<Unit193> jphilips: [06:37:32] < knome> updated https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/xubuntu-marketing/current, svg sources for cosmic->focal can be found there
<jphilips> thanks Unit193 and knome 
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't think anything's pending on you. I'm tempted to push taskman to focal (and maybe other bugfixes if we have them)
<Unit193> In Debian, I just haven't done Thunar nor -session.
<Unit193> -terminal was the other one.
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds like a win to me. nothing critical in it though, just nice-to-have fixes
<ochosi> so also very little risk
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-12
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: xfce4-taskmanager (focal-proposed/universe) [1.2.2-1 => 1.2.3-0ubuntu1] (ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<Unit193> I hope you get the approval your wife never gave. :o
<bluesabre> :o
<Unit193> Nothing interesting packaging-wise I presume?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, just the usual standards-version, debian-compat, and R3
<bluesabre> d/watch might need an update too, uscan failed
<bluesabre> but I didn't feel like fixing that :D
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Hide feh launcher, only used for ubiquity background (LP: #1872058) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=6c788a85962def51c9ffe0c1b768ce447380146a (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> I should really finish up on thunar and that. :/
<jphilips> Unit193: reminder for a new core image, as its been a week
<jphilips> bug 1872307
<ubottu> bug 1872307 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_x11_window_get_xid()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872307
<jphilips> bug 1872313
<ubottu> bug 1872313 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "elementary xfce darkest icon theme missing cache file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872313
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.14.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-14-3-released-tp58318.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: xfce4-settings (focal-proposed/universe) [4.14.2-1ubuntu1 => 4.14.3-0ubuntu1] (ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<bluesabre> Unit193: the thunar release does have some welcome fixes, if you want to package that up, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/tree/NEWS
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: xubuntu-default-settings (focal-proposed/universe) [20.04.1 => 20.04.2] (xubuntu)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 20.04.2 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c4634fa6b7577aa4207b901152fc20b2cc6cbf56 (by Sean Davis)
<krytarik> Looks like we're clear at the queue for now! >_<
<krytarik> (Just got a few highlights at -release, that is.)
<Unit193> jphilips: Doesn't specifically have to be a weekly, I don't want to wear my tester out. :3
<bluesabre> krytarik: yup! Sometime this week is when they actually start getting strict with the queue... so if we have anything we need to land, let me know. :)
<TJ-> FYI: 20.04 appears to work perfectly on new Lenovo E495 AND Ryzen 7 3700U based laptop; display/wireless/audio/video/interfaces/power all seem 100% working as expected
<Unit193> TJ-: I'm sorry we couldn't make it more interesting for you!
<TJ-> Please don't! I had enough with the DPMS-black-screen-on-resume bug!
<TJ-> I'm just hoping it isn't lying in wait for me
<TJ-> I've got 6 E495's on 20.04 so far so if there are issues I'm sure we'll find them!
<jphilips> bluesabre: alex isnt willing to cherry-pick this into 1.8.x, but think it should be for xubuntu - https://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit?id=8ee6f6601f1e8b465ee366238aa92ac74aba94e5
<bluesabre> jphilips: that requires translations, so we really can't cherry-pick it into xubuntu easily
<jphilips> bluesabre: translations freeze is in a week right?
<jphilips> and aren't updated translations coming throughout the release?
<bluesabre> Upstream project = upstream translations. It's harder to pull those in and maintain via patches. I'd rather convince alex to include them in 1.8.x, otherwise not have them.
<bluesabre> That, and translations in LP are generally not as well maintained as those in Xfce projects (transifex seems to be much more popular)
<jphilips> true, true
<ochosi> bluesabre: or xfce is more popular than xubuntu ;)
<Unit193> Or easier to get approval there.
