#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-08
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> How the &@$% do you report a bug on Launchpad? I swear, it's like they don't want new bug reports.
<wolfger> then my apport bug gets marked a dupe of a non-public bug, so I can't even subscribe to that bug to track progress or offer input.
<wolfger> This is possibly the most assinine system ever.
<wolfger> PS: Natty sucks and I can't believe we're going to launch this steaming turd in 50 days.
 * wolfger grumbles some more
<wolfger> and I had two apport-able bugs this morning, but it seems that Apport got confused and submitted the same bug twice (both bugs happened at once).
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> wolfger: is off to a great start today
<wolfger> OK, finally found the report-a-bug link, buried at the end of a lengthy document about how to use Apport to report a bug (which is worthless to even have, since Apport is pretty much an automated process)
<wolfger> augh!!!!!!
<wolfger> after all that, the bug I'm trying to report is a dupe (despite it not showing up when I did a search)
 * wolfger fumes
<wolfger> OK, I know Natty is Alpha... I know I should expect problems... But this is ridiculous. Worst alpha ever.
<wolfger> ...and Launchpad has no such "alpha" excuse for sucking.
<wolfger> <end of rant>
<wolfger> at least I managed to do something semi-useful. Confirmed the bug and changed it to the appropriate package.
<tjagoda> I never know what package to put my bugs on
<tjagoda> so I never file new ones =(
<wolfger> That's a lame reason to not file bugs.
<wolfger> Not that there aren't some good reasons.... that just isn't one of them.
 * wolfger raps tjagoda's knuckles with a ruler
<tjagoda> I do not know how to best determine what the source problem package is
<tjagoda> Figured not filling is better than wasting somebody's time in the totally wrong package
<wolfger> That's what the job of triaging exists for.
<wolfger> Let people who know and care more decide where to stick it.
<wolfger> wait, that sounded wrong...
<tjagoda> Wolfger's always telling me where to stick it. =P
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> morning
<brousch> ug, touched vista running on an acer craptop this morning
<brousch> i feel dirty and cheap
<jrwren> good morning :)
<wolfger> brousch: you are dirty and cheap
<jrwren> greg-g: I'll ask about Apr2nd SRT UGBJ today.
<greg-g> jrwren: awesome, but it's April3rd ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: thanks man
<jrwren> oh, ok, saturday?
<greg-g> jrwren: Sunday
<jrwren> Sunday.
<jrwren> ok.
<greg-g> yeah
<wolfger> somebody needs coffee
<wolfger> and/or a calendar :-)
<greg-g> oooo, we're now logged, btw
<jrwren> i could scrollback and point out where greg-g said apr 2nd :p
<jrwren> but that was days ago :p
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> but yes, no coffee yet.
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | Wiki: http://ur1.ca/33fhq | LP: http://ur1.ca/33fhw | MailingList: http://ur1.ca/33fhy | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/33fin | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<wolfger> jrwren: Even if he said the 2nd (and I'm not doubting you) that doesn't excuse you from thinking the 3rd was a Saturday. :-)
<greg-g> just so everyone knows:
<greg-g> ---------------------------
<jrwren> of course it does.
<tjagoda> I feel intimidated by the size of our channel /topic
<greg-g> THIS CHANNEL IS NOW LOGGED
<jrwren> *gasp*
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> So
<wolfger> greg-g: Logged? Oh noes! We're going to lose all our tinfoil hat participants.
<jrwren> logged like my turds into the toilet?
<tjagoda> Whose going to start flooding "porn porn porn" now that we're logged?
<tjagoda> =p
<greg-g> wolfger: that was the plan
<greg-g> jrwren: yes
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> actually, I got around to doing it because of the built in IRC meeting log feature in the LoCo Directroy
<wolfger> So all my ranting about Natty being crap and Launchpad being more crap is now preserved and searchable? Excellent!
<greg-g> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/39/detail/ see the meeting logs link (that one doesn't work, since we weren't logged yet, it is just auto generated)
<tjagoda> just what I needed
<tjagoda> More Ubuntu-related google noise when I search my name
<tjagoda> =P
<greg-g> wolfger: yep, in fact that was the first real content it logged :)
<wolfger> Woohoo!
<wolfger> Kickin' it off right.
<tjagoda> Pidgin sucks so much sometimes
<tjagoda> It is occasionally very hard to me an open source enthusiast. =P
<wolfger> rick_h_: Watched your rant last night.... Why video? I mean, if all we're going to see is you talking into a mic, that seems rather lame. Now if you use the whiteboard, or demonstrate something, that'd be sweet.
<tjagoda> Sent an offline message which it converted into a buddy pounce and then proceeded to send the pounce IM /every time/ the buddy logged on for about 7 days
<rick_h_> wolfger: because I can do it live
<rick_h_> and take questions/comments
<wolfger> tjagoda: Pidgin sucks less than Empathy, or whatever the default is on Natty
<rick_h_> and because I think I'm the hotness you all want to see
<ColonelPanic001> wolfger: shush, I like to stare at rick_h_
<rick_h_> wolfger: the idea is to test the waters with lococast stuff getting more interactive
<wolfger> Sorry, ColonelPanic001, I did not mean to deprive you of your... "material"
<ColonelPanic001> apology accepted.
<wolfger> rick_h_: can't be interactive with just audio?
<rick_h_> wolfger: meh, I think video is more interactive
<rick_h_> besides, the audio is still there, put out in podcast form
<rick_h_> you don't have to watch it
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> you even get the cool intro music if you listen to the podcast form
<ColonelPanic001> having both is good - I can listen to a podcast at work, not so much a video
<rick_h_> right
<ColonelPanic001> need to catch up on lococast.
<rick_h_> it's experimental stuff
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: definitely, our last couple of months have been our best stuff
<ColonelPanic001> this lady in the cube across from me never shuts up on the damn phone, so I've got plenty of time.
<rick_h_> gag
<rick_h_> hah
<wolfger> Ugh. Doesn't linux-mag.com have editors? I hate seeing poor spelling/grammar get published.
<ColonelPanic001> tried that, said something about assault.
<jrwren> the sad part about pidgin sucking is that it is still better than everything else out there.
<jrwren> I think it was linux-mag that asked me for an article and then did nothing with it.
<jrwren> and they are light on editors.
<jrwren> they let the author keep copyright, which is rare for magazines.
<wolfger> jrwren: Tried Kopete?
<brousch> pidgin is awesome
<wolfger> it's about on par with Pidgin... does some things better, some things worse
<ColonelPanic001> I use Kopete at home
<ColonelPanic001> Pidgin at work, centerim at work
<jrwren> lol @ kopete.  not in 8 or so years.
<jrwren> kopete win32?
<ColonelPanic001> LOLpete
<ColonelPanic001> no, it's for decent OSs.
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<wolfger> jrwren: Letting the author keep copyright is rare? Since when?
<ColonelPanic001> actually might. No idea how easily though
<wolfger> It wasn't rare way back when I thought I was a writer.
<jrwren> wolfger: forever in publishing.
<ColonelPanic001> IIRC, KDE 4 stuff is all windows compatible, has a windows version, etc
<jrwren> wolfger: for magazines and books typically even if you retain (C) you ahve given up a lot of rights that go with it.
<jrwren> e.g. can't go print the book yourself and sell it.
<tjagoda> linux-mag < linux journal
<jrwren> e.g. can't publish the magazine article on a blog.
<jrwren> at least not without permission of the publisher
<tjagoda> Happy American Tuesday
<tjagoda> erh
<tjagoda> I mean
<tjagoda> Fat Tuesday
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: http://www.simplehelp.net/2008/06/30/how-to-install-and-run-kde-programs-in-windows/
<ColonelPanic001> with the disclaimer that I think I tried it once, half-assed, years ago, and don't even remember if it worked. So, I really have no idea.
<wolfger> jrwren: used to be just First North American rights, and you retained the right to republish.
<wolfger> not that anybody was typically buying anything *but* first rights, so second rights were kinda worthless
<wolfger> unless you republish yourself
<jrwren> oh yeah, fat tuesday... damn, I wish I lived in Detroit instead of AA
<jrwren> the hamtramick influence was so much more in the tricounty detroit area
<ColonelPanic001> you can have mine
<tjagoda> ColonelPanic wants to /live/
<ColonelPanic001> somtimes.
<ColonelPanic001> lately I've been having to screw around with the iphone simulator on a mac, so not always
<tjagoda> Ewh
<tjagoda> Open Source ColonelPanic sells his soul to Apple to pay the rent
<ColonelPanic001> that's my news headline :\
<jrwren> greg-g: i was chatting with you before actually seeing your email.  now I see your email !
<ColonelPanic001> everyone see this yet?: http://weatherspark.com/#app;a=USA/MI/Detroit
<rick_h_> heh, fancy
<tjagoda> wow
<snap-l> brousch: Nice.
<snap-l> And ithas radar as well. Wonder if it updates automagically.
<tjagoda> snap-l has an inner meteorologist.
<snap-l> I have the Baker weather service in the house
<rick_h_> hah
<wolfger> Woot. The bug my bug got marked as a dupe of just went public, and I was auto-notified of that fact. A point of redemption for Launchpad.
<snap-l> Don't worry, it'll expire in due time. ;)
<wolfger> It's been marked as critical, so I think this one might actually get fixed.
<tjagoda> I have never been involved in a bug which was actually fixed =(
<wolfger> ROFL
<wolfger> just got a a message over Office Communicator, "r u at yur desk"... then he corrected "your".
<wolfger> tjagoda: might help if you actually filed bugs :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: u r 2 cool 4 wrds
<tjagoda> Why is it so damn difficult to get curling coverage on broadcast TV in this country?!
<snap-l> tjagoda: Which country?
<snap-l> The one that considers it a sport, or the one that thinks it's ice shuffleboard
<tjagoda> Shuffleboard
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<snap-l> tjagoda: I think you have your answer.
<tjagoda> Curse this country, and it's poor taste in sports. =P
<wolfger> tjagoda: It's not hard at all. Just turn to CBC.
<snap-l> Considering most of the country shits their collective pants when they see snow, I think a sport that is played on ice might have them go into shock.
<wolfger> We get that channel here.
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: that is pretty awesome, just what I need, more geekiness just to check if it is raining outside or not :)
<greg-g> I love it
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: dangit, aside from the flash, that is ;)
<snap-l> I still lik wunderground. ;)
<brousch> i still like the window
<brousch> actually i use weatherbug on android more than anything else
<tjagoda> wolfger: CBC is not providing coverage this year
<tjagoda> CTV holds an exlcusive broadcast license, so its on TSN Canada
<tjagoda> exclusive*
<tjagoda> Comcast does not sell TSN Canada, only the useless TSN America =(
<tjagoda> I need to form a Canadian holding corporation so I have have a rogers subscription and then stream the channels back into the states.
<wolfger> tjagoda..... so what you are telling me is that you are blaming the United States for CBC's failure to cover curling?
<tjagoda> I'm blaming the united states for my inability to purchase Canadian broadcast channels?
<brousch> can't you watch it over the tubes?
<wolfger> Just go to your local torrent site and download the matches. I'm sure they'll have hundreds of seeders....
<wolfger> BWAHAHAHAHAHA
<tjagoda> Nein, no over the tubes
<tjagoda> only CBC over air
<tjagoda> CBC does not hold the exclusive broadcast license
<tjagoda> CTV does
 * wolfger senses an impending terrorist attack on CTV headquarters
<tjagoda> trolololol
<tjagoda> Please disregard that FBI googlebot whom is now searching our IRC logs
<wolfger> crap... we're logging now. I should probably stop using words such as "terrorist attack"
<tjagoda> greg-g, WHY ARE WE LOGGED
<tjagoda> THE INTERNET CANNOT HANDLE US IN PERPETUITY
<wolfger> ah, well, it's tjagoda that will get investigated for it, not me. :-)
<tjagoda> I'll just have to make #ubuntu-us-mi-terrorist
<tjagoda> That won't be logged or arouse suspicion
<wolfger> ./join #ubuntu-us-mi-not-a-terrorist
 * tjagoda does
<brousch> deport him
<Blazeix> we need a bot with emacs spook functionality. To overwhelm the FBI trackers with noise.
<tjagoda> brousch: To canada, plz
 * wolfger wonders why tjagoda is in a Michigan channel, pretending to be Canadian, when he's using a California server...
<tjagoda> I feel as if I have been victimized by a subtle greg-g plot to censor the inappropriate comments from our channel
<wolfger> suspicious terrorist activity if you ask me
<tjagoda> Freenode round-robins me, I swear =(
<wolfger> Ha! I foil that greg-g plot by not caring about my inappropriate comments being logged!
<tjagoda> Ingenious
<greg-g> I can never win
<wolfger> why do you even try?
<ColonelPanic001> weatherunderground is neat because I happen to know the guy with the closest weather station
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2011/03/warner-bros-taking-movie-rentals-to-its-facebook-pages.ars
<rick_h_> son of a *#@$*$#@
<brousch> facebook _is_ the web
<brousch> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/snak-is-a-keybo.php
<rick_h_> shoot me now
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> I take it rick_h_ was in denial about FB?
<snap-l> I hope they get all the success they deserve with this move.
<rick_h_> I can see it now
<rick_h_> "30 day rental window only for FB users
<wolfger> I'm sure it will be worth every penny it costs them and more
<rick_h_> ipad specific content, social network specific content, ugh
<wolfger> I've already been watching streaming content on FB. The UFC has begun streaming free preliminary fights on FB, prior to the (later) preliminary fights on broadcast TV, prior to the pay-per-view
<wolfger> Super sucky thing about that is, it's in Silverlight :-p
<wolfger> so i can only watch on the Win7 box
<wolfger> Moonlight won't play it
<rick_h_> man, it just gets better
<wolfger> But that's a UFC thing, not necessarily a FB thing. They love Silverlight for some reason.
<wolfger> It's all over their home page
<greg-g> *puke*
<Blazeix> has anyone tried playon.tv? I've been looking at buying that for a solution to netflix silverlight stuff.
<Blazeix> it requires a windows pc, but that pc can be stashed in a corner, and stream to a linux box.
<snap-l> Frankly, the amount of trouble that these folks are making for Linux users ensures I'll be buying DVDs for a long while.
<snap-l> or streaming on non-linux devices (ie: Netflix w/ Wii)
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> even though moonlight does a great job of compat, there is NO DRM!!!
<snap-l> http://design.canonical.com/2011/03/quit/
<jrwren> so if the silverlight video stream is DRM it will never play in moonlight ;(
<snap-l> an we put the designers to better use than trying to fuck everything in the earhole because it's convenient?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> come on, it's well thuoght out
<rick_h_> "no one needs this any more since I don't use it"
<snap-l> It is, but I'm getting a little tired of folks decontenting things that I use and understand
<jrwren> LOVE it... "we're quitting"
<jrwren> first OSX, now ubuntu.
<jrwren> i imagine win8 will follow
<jrwren> i've wanted this style of desktop apps since 1998 or 99 or whnever I had my handspring visor (palm)
<snap-l> jrwren: The way we're going, you're about to get the Palm OS on your desktop.
<rick_h_> "multi-task? That's so 2000's"
<rick_h_> no one needs more than a browser open anyway :P
<Blazeix> to be fair, I can't remember the last time I chose 'quit' from a menu.
<snap-l> Blazeix: CTRL-Q counts
<Blazeix> as long as it goes away gracefully when my window manager tells it to, I don't really care.
<brousch> cmd-q
<rick_h_> well, ctrl-q
<rick_h_> that's just activating the quit
<Blazeix> I don't think I even new that was a valid key combo
<Blazeix> s/new/knew/
<rick_h_> so if they remove the option the keyboard shortcut doesn't mean much
<brousch> i actually use quit in X11 programs in osx because they don't play well
<snap-l> I wouldn't be nearly as upset with this if it wasn't presented so smugly
<rick_h_> oh man, I use that 100s of times a day
<rick_h_> it's how I close things, ctrl-d for termanals and ctrl-q for everything else
<snap-l> ie: This is what we think is best for you, after careful consideration.
<brousch> if you want to beat Apple you must become Apple
<Blazeix> hm, I think awesome uses super+shift+c to kill programs
<Blazeix> I don't think that maps to "quit"
<Blazeix> that's what I use daily
<snap-l> http://design.canonical.com/2011/03/quit/#comment-14180 <- I am going to blow a fucking gasket
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I use that for apps that don't have a quit menu item
<rick_h_> it's more of a "kill"
<snap-l> http://design.canonical.com/2011/03/quit/#comment-14243
<snap-l> NERD RAGE!!!!
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> at least it's not me this time lol
<Blazeix> this is coming with unity, right? I imagine the people that this really bugs won't be using unity.
<snap-l> Blazeix: I'll give Unity a fair shake
<Blazeix> sure, though unless I see drastic improvements in unity I suspect you'll end up on stock gnome or something.
<snap-l> but I'm wondering if it's time to distro-hop
<snap-l> I mean away from GNOME as well
<Blazeix> *cough* tiling wm *cough*
<snap-l> Use something that is Ubuntu-based that isn't GNOME-based
<snap-l> and God forbid isn't some space-cadet window manager
<Blazeix> I used to run xubuntu back in the day, that was pretty nice.
<Blazeix> they had xfce configured in a very gnome-like way.
<brousch> Xubuntu
<brousch> i like it
<rick_h_> the thing is that this quit business is something that apps will ahve to adopt right?
<rick_h_> I mean, the idea is to remove it from the file menu, that's per app on that not just a WM change
<Blazeix> well, if they use the dbus-based global menu they might be able to filter it out.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> snap-l: come to the dark side
<rick_h_> it's not as "space cadet" as you think :)
<rick_h_> and you can use a mouse to do things
<rick_h_> hmmm, well maybe not resize. I only know how to do that by the keyboard
<Blazeix> you could try out bluetile. That's gnomey.
<Blazeix> http://www.bluetile.org/
<snap-l> Fuck, someone watched a damn Lisa video and now we're getting a fucking Lisa for Christmas.
<jrwren> rick_h_: +1 ctrl-w and ctrl-q 100s of times a day
<snap-l> Not that I wouldn't mind it, but c'mon.
<rick_h_> Lisa?
<jrwren> snap-l: because mpt and Chauncellor just don't get it?
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rLpYeahN4
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<jrwren> it would be interesting if the launcher were also the app monitor
<snap-l> I think this guy was the Chancellor in Space 1999
<snap-l> jrwren: It would be great if all of these programs worked consistently together
<jrwren> so unity spawns a process and monitors the child PID for responsiveness and automatically respawns if it if stops responding.
<jrwren> yes, that would be great.
<jrwren> ubuntu! lets work together!
<snap-l> We're still trying like hell to get where we were back in 1985
<jrwren> everything old is new again.
<snap-l> but we're not going to get there by removing shit
<jrwren> removing quit?
<jrwren> i'm all for removing quit.
<jrwren> make ubuntu work like my iphone.
<snap-l> jrwren: Remind e to give you a wedgie thenext time I see you.
<jrwren> you'd have to catch me first :p
<snap-l> I'll make arrangements
<jrwren> oh, like my iphone but with real multtasking :)
<snap-l> Next they'll say "Y'know, The Apple Lisa didn't have a browser, so we don't need one either"
<snap-l> or "We don't need to let you close browser tabs"
<jrwren> you are such a nay-sayer.
<jrwren> i'm sure they will have an option to turn quit back on.
<jrwren> if they don't, that would be dumb.
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm tired of people doing shit because they think it's neccesary
<snap-l> jrwren: Gee, now would it? :)
<jrwren> but if it were just a system default to make the computer work as a tool rather than me work for the computer... I think its great.
<snap-l> when in reality it's not necessary
<jrwren> what you mean people doing shut cuz they think its necessary?
<snap-l> I'm seeing a lot of that with GNOME Shell / Unity
<tjagoda> snap-l is in grumpy anti-change mode
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> I'm seeing a lot of wheel reinvention
<tjagoda> enhancement
<jrwren> its optimization.
<snap-l> Only we'll use hexagons, because they'll stay put when the wheel stops
<jrwren> and its optimization that you don't need.
<jrwren> but I love it.
<tjagoda> Wheel 2.0, now made out of more modern polymer compounds
<snap-l> Who needs a smooth ride? That's so 20th century.
<tjagoda> All I've got to say
<tjagoda> is that I never saw a quit button on the USS Enterprise
<tjagoda> so clearly this is the right direction.
<jrwren> I never saw any real world productivity out of the USS Enterprise computer though :(
<tjagoda> Star Trek Generations
<tjagoda> Epic Astrometrics lab manipulation
<tjagoda> Argument: Invalid
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> Y'know, I'll bet the computer on the USS Enterprise didn't use Firefox either
<snap-l> or Eclipse
<tjagoda> It certainly didn't use Pidgin
<tjagoda> crappy crappy Pidgin
<ColonelPanic001> They ran KDE.
<tjagoda>  /slap
<wolfger> greg-g is burning up the mailing list server this week.
<rick_h_> woot! we might be an active loco yet!
<rick_h_> just in time to mutiny by the sounds of things lol
<wolfger> Just like the good old days
<wolfger> mutiny? Arrr! Who be talkin' o' mutiny?
<brousch> do we have a drupal-based CMS now?
<brousch> i thought rick_h_ was putting that together
<greg-g> wait, mutiny? what'd I do?!
<brousch> spying on our activities via logging
<wolfger> apparently rick_h_ is unhappy with the way you run things, greg-g
<brousch> STRING 'IM UP
<rick_h_>  no, higher up than greg-g
<rick_h_> man, you guys are awful
<wolfger> hehehehe
<greg-g> oh, yeah, Ubuntu mutiny :)
<wolfger> ./join #linuxmintdebianedition-us-mi
<greg-g> you missed when we had #debian-us-mi
<wolfger> ./join #gentoo-us-mi
<greg-g> ew
<rick_h_> heh
<wolfger> Hmm. This doesn't sound right....
<wolfger> As a temporary workaround, you can "apt-get remove gir1.2-unity-3.0" which will stop the crashing.
<wolfger> What is gir1.2-unity that it's included by default, yet can be removed?
<wolfger> ...and removing it makes things better?
<tjagoda> You'll log in to notice unity shell no longer exists
<tjagoda> =P
<jrwren> tjagoda: notice how I said "real world productivity"
<jrwren> i chose my words carefully :)
<jrwren> startrek used kde with lcars theme
<tjagoda> Star Wars used KDE
<wolfger> http://haskell.org/wikiupload/a/aa/Screen-triplehead-galois.jpg
<tjagoda> Star Trek used Gnome =(
<tjagoda> Uh
<tjagoda> wow
<wolfger> I imagine that's rick_h_'s dream-setup
<wolfger> triple-head tiling
<tjagoda> non-widescreen
<Blazeix> the mouse doesn't have one of those navigation ball things
<tjagoda> crazy ass keyboard showing his commitment to anti-mouse usage
<Blazeix> hm, I like the laptops hiding behind the monitors
<tjagoda> zomg
<tjagoda> did not event notice
<rick_h_> that is pretty
<rick_h_> though the displays are a bit small
<rick_h_> I'm a 22" man
<rick_h_> and they need mouting arms
<rick_h_> but <3 that tiling
<tjagoda> Tripple 22?
<tjagoda> triple*
<tjagoda> You'd have to turn your head too much
<rick_h_> yea, why I just have dual 22"
<rick_h_> but what I do is run one center
<rick_h_> and the other to the side
<rick_h_> but that's only for things like irc/communication stuff
<rick_h_> maybe a reloading build server window
<rick_h_> you mainly work on the front/center one
<tjagoda> Unless you want to play flight sim in immersion mode
<tjagoda> you should not have n > 2 22"
<rick_h_> with tiling WM you can flip/swap windows so fast you don't need them side v side all the time
<tjagoda> Same thing I do with my dual 22's
<tjagoda> the second monitor often gets neglected for anything other than slacking off
<rick_h_> heh, I'm missing mine horribly right now
<rick_h_> so definitely not my issue there
<rick_h_> especially when you get them on arms and can set them up right
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/03/08/open-metalcast-podcasting-live-tonight/
<tjagoda> Anybody want to buy a 22" samsung LCD?
<tjagoda> I want to change monitor sizes.
<snap-l> tjagoda: I'll give you $1,000,000 in internet money for it
<brousch> USD$5
<thurston> wth is internet money?
<tjagoda> It's still a fairly new monitor you bastards
<tjagoda> http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SyncMaster-22-Inch-Widescreen-Monitor/dp/B00170VXC6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299610344&sr=8-3
<tjagoda> I also have a 2232BW Plus
<wolfger> Is it possible to change stdout to a program (i.e. auto-pipe all cli output to "more")?
<snap-l> tjagoda: I'll insult you with my offer, so I'll hold it to myself.
<tjagoda> It is so hard to find reasonable people these days =P
<wolfger> tjagoda: I'm just going to make a VGA-to-RGB cable and use my TV as a monitor :-p
<greg-g> internet money? like bitcoin?
<snap-l> Internet Money is currently worth about $.000,000,000,000,000,000,001, so get out there and make some Internet cash!
<brousch> snap-l: i assume you'll be screencasting your live performance tonight
<wolfger> ???
<wolfger> live performance?
<snap-l> brousch: Nope. Live performance
<snap-l> if the audience decides to record, I won't stop them
<brousch> boo
<snap-l> brousch: There's still time to head on out. ;)
<brousch> not even recordmydesktop?
<snap-l> Heck, it's only a three hour drive from West MI
<snap-l> Nope.
<snap-l> Because I suck, and am a bastard.
<brousch> i am putting an interweb hex on your presentation. you are doomed.
<snap-l> brousch: I'm using Linux audio. I'm already getting into sacrificing chickens
<snap-l> You don't scare me
<brousch> i made a voodoo doll of your hard disk and am stepping on it repeatedly
<gamerchick02> sacrificing chickens? i didn't know i had to do that to use linux...
<gamerchick02> might put some people off at an Ubuntu Hour.
<brousch> gamerchick02: just if you want to record audio
<gamerchick02> oh. ok. :)
<gamerchick02> note to self: don't mention recording audio at Ubuntu Hour.
<snap-l> brousch: http://ubuntuone.com/p/gkK/
<snap-l> Worst part of that image is trying to match the damn font. ;)
<gamerchick02> that's great lulz
<gamerchick02> thank you. :)
<jrwren> is there a FF plugin that lets me just start typing HTML and it renders it?
<jrwren> I want to skip the "create a blank file and open it " steps
<Blazeix> you can do that with firebug
<jrwren> yeah?
<rick_h_> yea, load up new tab and hit firebug
<Blazeix> yeah, you can put the html tab in text mode
<jrwren> how?
<jrwren> OH! edit button right there.
<jrwren> TY
<Blazeix> yeah, you don't get nice autoindenting or anything, but it's good for banging out some quick html
<jrwren> is there a way to ask firebug/firefox to rerun JS from beginning without a page reload?
<tjagoda> Not that I know of in firefox
<tjagoda> don't know about bug
<rick_h_> jrwren: not yet, it's a dev feature in the next release I think
<Blazeix> hm, you might be able to find the entry point and call it in the console
<Blazeix> though I imagine that will mess the page up if the js has side effects.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: cool. so do they revert all dom changes the js makes?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: not sure, let me see if I can find the link. Just saw something on it the other day
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://twitter.com/#!/segphault/status/45212170329407488 the end is near
<gamerchick02> what? that's a load a bullshit. i'm sure he's not following the right people.
<gamerchick02> by my (limited) observation, i get more engagement with status.net than i ever do with twitter.
<snap-l> I think it's because of the dogpile that floss celebrities get over there.
<snap-l> segphault: RT @directhex: @segphault identi.ca is like Twitter, but it's exclusively used for people to             congratulate each other for using identi.ca |03:09 PM Mar 08, 2011
<snap-l> I just wait patiently for Twitter to do something stupid and watch as people scramble
<snap-l> That and if you follow bkuhn, fontana, or fabsh, it's like a fucking echo chamber
<gamerchick02> i just responded to that too.
<gamerchick02> well, i follow fabsh, but i don't always believe everything he sasy
<gamerchick02> says, even
<Blazeix> I prefer to read that as "he sassy"
<gamerchick02> lol
 * brousch kisses snap-l on the head. omc #9, tehomoth. fuckyeah
<gamerchick02> snap-l, i agree that it can be an echo chamber. and sometimes i don't think "other" opinions are welcome
<gamerchick02> i see a lot of ubuntu hate from fabsh. i actually blocked markshuttlecock because i was sick of the "satire" coming from his maw, i mean keyboard.
<snap-l> brousch: You like? :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Sheesh, that opencore thread is out of control. :)
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/65683872#notice-66472621 <- Speaking of the demons.
<gamerchick02> but if he's rage-quitted identi.ca, he won't see those replies.
<gamerchick02> hence why i sent the note to him on twitter. ;)
<snap-l> Me too
<snap-l> I have my speakers ready to go tonight, so I'm listening to my Squeezebox on my desk
<rick_h_> go snap-l
<snap-l> Of course that makes me wonder what lies in store for gwibber
<rick_h_> meh, as long as the api sticks around
<snap-l> although not sure if Ryan is still working on that as much
<rick_h_> it's used for more than twitter/identica
<gamerchick02> i surely hope he doesn't kill status.net support for it. if he does, i'll rage-quit gwibber and use their (admittedly shit) program you can get off the sn website.
<gamerchick02> i don't think he is as much, it's kind of off his hands so to speak
<gamerchick02> https://twitter.com/#!/householdhacker and why the everloving hell do people use fucking animated avatars on twitter? makes my eyes hurt and makes gwibber go NUTS. *RAGE*
<snap-l> That one is especially annoying
<snap-l> But hey, if it supports it... ;)
<snap-l> Maybe we can turn Twitter into Livejournal after all
<gamerchick02> for sure. it just sits and blinks in my gwibber window, and is one of the fastest ways to give me a headache.
<rick_h_> sweet, cards are in just in time
<snap-l> And considering Ms. Data Portability Stormy isn't using identi.ca for her flight, that's pretty damning.
<snap-l> rick_h_: cards?
<gamerchick02> twitter is actually useful. i've had some interesting conversations about movies and such. people on status.net don't seem to be into that sort of stuff.
<rick_h_> the business cards I wanted for pycon
<rick_h_> with contact info, lococast logo
<rick_h_> just got the phone call they're in
<snap-l> gamerchick02: There's a few that are pretty interested in metal, but for the most part a bunch of them are more interested in being up their own ass.
<gamerchick02> lol
<snap-l> And fucking soccer.
<gamerchick02> well, i like soccer.
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<snap-l> I like soccer too. I think it gives the 10yo's out there something to do
<gamerchick02> LOL.
<gamerchick02> get 'em into a better sport: hockey. you're in Michigan, afterall... they can play hockey from October to June.
<snap-l> Hell, they can play it year round, practically
<gamerchick02> on outside ice from November to March too.
<gamerchick02> i mean, you could here, anyway. though it's gotten up to 37F today, but the temp is due to fall quickly tonight. it'll be frigid by the time i get out of Nile.
<gamerchick02> gonna be a late-ass night. blargh
<snap-l> OK, this is pathetic
<snap-l> 22 posts from identi.ca
<snap-l> 11 people
<snap-l> and one of them is the eff
<snap-l> That spans 30 minutes
<snap-l> And one of them is our own greg-g, correcting someone on (C)
<gamerchick02> hrm. in the public timeline, or yours?
<greg-g> yes yes, shhhh
<snap-l> my timeline
<gamerchick02> ah
<greg-g> I will keep my "well actually" posts regarding copyright to a minimum
<rick_h_> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/google/google-instant-previews-now-on-android-and-ios/2828
<gamerchick02> i don't mind the copyright stuff, really i don't. it's when it's pointed out that someone might be wrong, and then the community jumps all over the person who's pointing things out like they're... i dunno. wrong?
<rick_h_> kind of cool android users
<gamerchick02> oooh. very
<gamerchick02> and i don't mind a lot of politics, though you're bound to offend someone if you post something political.
<Blazeix> haven't we had the google instant thing for a few weeks, now? I've had the little notification that "Instant (beta) is off" for quite a while.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: but watch the video
<rick_h_> it's different
<rick_h_> it's a 'cover flow' for results for mobile
<rick_h_> prevents the "follow link, go back, follow next link, go back, next, back, next back"
<Blazeix> ah, interesting
<snap-l> greg-g: I'd rather you post to correct these schmoos
<snap-l> Seems a few folks have to stand up so they can talk without being muffled by the seat cushion
<greg-g> BAM! InboxZero in my work account! (and my @creativecommons account, but that's normally at 0)
<gamerchick02> congrats, greg-g
<gamerchick02> i have 2 in my gmail inbox
<greg-g> you know what helped? mutt-notmuch integration. Search is just so easy now that I don't leave those informational messages in my inbox until the day they're needed (like flight itineraries/etc). GET THAT CRAP OUT OF MY SIGHT
<gamerchick02> i use a lot of labels and such in gmail.
<snap-l> greg-g: Welcome to my world. ;)
<snap-l> Has it just been me, or is Google really not working right
<snap-l> google reader, calendar, etc.
<Blazeix> I don't think I've noticed much. Google docs was a bit slow last night.
<rick_h_x> hello?
<rick_h_x> crap, why is freenode not working from my colo?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-09
<brousch> icu
<brousch> one of my friend's proxy servers got blocked earlier today
<brousch> one his company was using
<rick_h_x> well I'm connecting with xchat from home
<rick_h_x> my irssi connection/colo can't connect
<rick_h_x> it's like it's getting filtered
<brousch> that's what happened to him
<rick_h_x> crap
<rick_h_> how about this
<rick_h_> bah, colorscheme doesn't play nice with byobu at all
<rick_h_> testing
<rick_h_> there we go, that looks better
<greg-g> welcome back
<rick_h_> moved irssi to my EC2 instance :(
<greg-g> lame
<snap-l> Hello world
<rick_h_> howdy
<rick_h_> over?
<jrwren> you keep and EC2 instance up all the time?
<rick_h_> yea, have a pair of them
<rick_h_> bmark.us, semiww.org, some other sites/etc
<jrwren> that is $$$
<jrwren> i take it you don't personally pay for 'em?
<rick_h_> micro instance is about $15/mo
<rick_h_> yea, personally pay for them
<jrwren> wow, cool.
<jrwren> i thought micro was about $30/mo... but that was probably old pricing.
<rick_h_> no, that's the small instance
<jrwren> plus free micro for a year, I guess I should be running some.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> AMZ is always cutting prices on that, I think my pricing was old info
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> anyway, yea handy to have around. Setup a second one for my jenkins instance and such for bmark
<rick_h_> build.bmark.us
<rick_h_> and working on some blog migrations/etc
<jrwren> have you heard of htis free oprating system "lee knocks" ?
<rick_h_> nope, must be something from communist countries
<_stink_> yikes, github down!
<_stink_> and right when i actually wanna look at stuff. :P
<snap-l> Home.
<greg-g> snap-l: how'd it go? splendidly I assume?
<snap-l> Presentation went well, thanks
<snap-l> Lots of good questions about podcasting
<snap-l> Had only one snafu where I forgot the right music. ;)
<greg-g> awesome!
<greg-g> Sorry I couldn't make it :/
<snap-l> np.
<snap-l> It's the thought that counts. ;)
<greg-g> well, then you've always got it from me :)
<snap-l> Heading to bed. TTYL!
<snap-l> heh
<wolfger> http://shirt.woot.com/shirts/concerts-will-never-be-the-same
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: so it went well?
<rick_h_> a whole new array of podcasts about to be born
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Hope so
<wolfger> what kind of array?
<snap-l> krondor: You weren't at MUG?
<snap-l> I had presents for you.
<rick_h_> yea, krondor ping'd me, but it was when I was having my irc problems
<rick_h_> ugh
<krondor> Yeah sorry I was actually out the door toward mug when Em asked me to run some errands and it all derailed
<krondor> How was the talk?
<snap-l> Coming to CHC tonight?
<snap-l> Talk went well
<snap-l> Pretty good turnout as well, all things considered.
<krondor> I'll try to make chc, I can guilt Em about mug too so that helps
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> the good ole guilt trip
<snap-l> Awesome. I'll bring the stuff then
<snap-l> lmk if situations change.
<snap-l> rick_h_: 8pm
<snap-l> not 7pm
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> redid
<rick_h_> sorryt
<rick_h_> trying to multi-task too much right now
<snap-l> Proof that rick_h_ only copy and pastes!
<snap-l> You must make penance, my son
<snap-l> 1 day with Eclipse, no plugins.
<snap-l> only then shall you redeem yourself.
<rick_h_> psh
<snap-l> and psh
<snap-l> I'm sure there's a shell called psh out there. ;)
<wolfger> perl shell, isn't it?
<wolfger> http://www.focusresearch.com/gregor/sw/psh/
<snap-l> Why yes, yes it is. :)
 * snap-l feels an evil streak coming
 * wolfger feel 'sudo apt-get install psh' in his near future
<wolfger> snap-l: evil streak? You mean like altering somebody's environment to pipe STDOUT through cowsay?
<rick_h_>  don't leave your laptop unattended at CHC tonight
<rick_h_> might be a chsh in your future
<wolfger> (actually, I'm plotting to pipe my STDERR through cowsay, which I think will be cool)
<brousch> rick_h_: do you think a micro EC2 could run an instance of plone?
<Blazeix> http://probablyinteractive.com/url-hunter
<rick_h_> brousch: probably, I mean I'm running hudson on it
<snap-l> Yay, fed Ex has made my package take a three day journey from Wisconsin
<snap-l> Here's how that works
<snap-l> Oh, even better, it'll probably take an additional day.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/grk/
<snap-l> Initially the delivery date was 5/9
<snap-l> er, 3/9
<snap-l> Sorry, it was 3-8 business days.
<rick_h_> sql help with brain fart this morning
<rick_h_> I want to SELECT id, score = 1 FROM table
<rick_h_> where score isn't a col in the table
<rick_h_> what's it called so I can google mysql and the dippy thing?
<_stink_> 1 as score
<_stink_> ?
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> no, error there too
<_stink_> blarg
<rick_h_> ah, nvm
<snap-l> Wouldn't that be SELECT id, 1 as score from table?
<rick_h_> thats right
<rick_h_> yea, thanks
<_stink_> coolio
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> i remember hating SQL like crazy in college, now it's almost second nature
<snap-l> Only things I have to look up are permissions
<rick_h_> ah, got it, ugh
<rick_h_> sometimes getting things into sqlalchemy can be fun
<binbrain> on hold for the sec of state, there are "Yes, Michigan" ad is looping reminding me how awesome snow is
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro> hey rick_h_
<jcastro> I have a guest from work coming to CHC
<jcastro> he's from canonical and is in town to do some tech support for a customer
<rick_h_> jcastro: awesome, I won't be there though
<rick_h_> packing for pycon
<jcastro> boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<rick_h_> but snap-l and company can take care of him
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I know. priorities :)
<jcastro> rick_h_: say hi to the crew there pls.
<jcastro> I'm sure barry is going?
<snap-l> Jesus, that damn opencore thread is going crazy.
<rick_h_> will do, got voidspace to agree to an interview
<rick_h_> and yea, barry is heading down. Will hopefully run into/meet up with him at some point
<snap-l> jcastro: Who's coming to dinner?
<rick_h_> damn, this missing CHC is starting to suck
<snap-l> rick_h_: We'll help you pack? :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> actually hopefully have it all done
<rick_h_> if work will lighten up today ugh
<jcastro> snap-l: his name is Mark
<wolfger> Packing: put laptop in backpack with change of underwear. Done.
<snap-l> wolfger: You're too kind
<snap-l> jcastro: Last name: Shuttleworth? :)
<rick_h_> pack 2 laptops, 4 mics, power, xlr cables, clothes, cards
<jcastro> heh no
<greg-g> snap-l++
<jrwren> greg-g: we are good for Apr 3rd
<greg-g> jrwren: rock!
<greg-g> thanks buddy
<snap-l> Awesome! Thanks jrwren
<jrwren> i may even have to attend.
<greg-g> jrwren: even better
<jrwren> ocelot... awesome.
<jrwren> oneric, i have to use a dictionary
<jrwren> wow, just googled it to Mirriam Webster. That is a great adjective.
<jrwren> that womans body is oneiric <-- for the filthy word of the day version
<rick_h_> yea, actually used the 'pronouce' on there to say it to me
<snap-l> Onerous. ;)
<jrwren> i had to double check the phonetics to learn to say it.
<snap-l> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oneiric <- Other Psychology terms made me laugh
<jrwren> oh-nie-rick is how I read it.
<snap-l> anxiety, conscience, fetish, hypochondria, intelligence, libido, mania, narcissism, neurosis, pathological, personality, phobia, psychosis, schadenfreude, subliminal
<snap-l> oneiromancy - Divination by means of dreams
<wolfger> Onery Ocelot?
<wolfger> to follow Naughty Narwhal?
<brousch> Ornery Ocelot
<brousch> follows Pissed-off Piglet
<wolfger> brousch++ for correct spelling; brousch-- for incorrect grasp of which letter follows which in the alphabet
<snap-l> Perturbed Phytocondrian.
<brousch> i use the canadian alphabet
<brousch> bunch of backwards dorks
<wolfger> Canadian alphabet... every letter is follow by "A"....
<wolfger> A, eh? B, eh? C, eh?
<snap-l> Just sent out a link to the MUG list with the podcasting links that came up during the presentation
<snap-l> Also, Audio Technica's website can die in a fire.
<rick_h_> heh, why the fire/dying?
<snap-l> They make you have to chose your global location
<jcastro> hey rick_h_
<jcastro> when you go to pycon
<jcastro> find Evan Dandrea and say hi
<rick_h_> k, will do
<jcastro> rick_h_: he's the installer guy, I need to send a message
<jcastro> "Go Wings!" or something of that sort
<jcastro> then he will know I sent you
<jcastro> mwahahaha
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> note added
<wolfger> Greg Grossmeier has joined identi.ca ?
<snap-l> yay, book arrived
<snap-l> wolfger: gre-g has been on identi.ca for a while now
<snap-l> Hell, he got me on idenit.ca
<snap-l> Yay, book arrived early
<rick_h_> what book?
<snap-l> (*cough*True20 Adventures in Role Playing(*cough*)
<snap-l> Revised edition
<snap-l> http://true20.com/
<rick_h_> man, I'm going to look goofy heading to DTW in shorts
<snap-l> greg-g's UID on identi.ca is 158, mine is 160
<wolfger> snap-l: According to Linkdin, he just joined
<snap-l> Linkedin is not the best gauge of this
<greg-g> wolfger: heh, yeah, the group on linkedin
<brousch> rick_h_: you leave today for pycon?
<rick_h_> brousch: tomorrow
<rick_h_> getting packed up today
<brousch> good. there's still time for me to stuff you in a trunk and take your spot
<rick_h_> brousch: hah!
<rick_h_> not likely, I'm getting stoked
<rick_h_> seeing the twitter feed flying today
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping, was it pro python you were talking about that was a bit much?
<rick_h_> a bit heavy
<snap-l> It was Pro Python, yes
<snap-l> Seemed to get a little dense in the third chapter
<snap-l> But maybe it is because I am weak
<rick_h_> debating between pro python v python algorightms
<rick_h_> for some on the trip reading
<snap-l> Cheaper than picking up the PDF version from Apress
<rick_h_> ?
<snap-l> Pro Python
<snap-l> $27.99 Kindle vs $34.99 PDF on Apress
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> suprisingly little amz reviews on both
<snap-l> God, I hate SOAP
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Maybe it's more that I hate SoapUI
<rick_h_> no, stick with your first instinct
<binbrain> snap-l: SOAP is awful
<snap-l> Yeah, no shit. :)
<binbrain> I wish it'd hurry up and DIAF
<snap-l> ++
<brousch> making a logo for west MI linux users group. what do you think? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/wmlug-3.2.png
<snap-l> nice! ;)
<greg-g> neat
<rick_h_> yea, good stuff
<brousch> if he farts it will hit detroit
<binbrain> brousch: what's wrong with the old one?
<binbrain> I was going to the west MI LUG back when we made the 1st logo
<binbrain> 10 years ago I guess
<brousch> it has no logo
<brousch> http://wmlug.org/
<brousch> you are probably thinking of the grand rapids linux users group, which does have a logo
<binbrain> ahh, your right
<binbrain> where does the WMUG meet?
<brousch> new horizons learning center on the east side of town
<brousch> it formed during a multi-year lull in grlug activity. now grlug is also active and we have double the linux group
<binbrain> interesting
<brousch> the grlug web site is even crappier than the wmlug one
<jcastro> jrwren: http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/09/founder-stories-stack-exchange-spolsky-vc/
<gamerchick02> Yay, a new Rick's Rant!
<snap-l> Seriously, Facebook comments?
<snap-l> I can't read comments on a site without allowing Facebook into my life?
<AndIrc_> heh, yep
<AndIrc_> it's coming
<snap-l> Well, Techcrunch just entered my shitlist again
<rick_h_droid> heh, party
<rick_h_droid> lococast ep 14 out. get it while it's hot. sorry for the audio
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wooooooooot
<rick_h_droid> ??
<snap-l> lococast release.
<gamerchick02> techcrunch is crap. you can't read comments without having a fB account?
<gamerchick02> dangit, ya'll i just listened to Rick's Rants...
<Blazeix> I sort of think of it as a plus. If you have a facebook account, you're subjected to techcrunch's comments.
<Blazeix> If you don't, you're spared.
<gamerchick02> good point.
<gamerchick02> hrm. my brother's fudge is actually pretty good. very sweet (moreso than regular fudge) but good...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-10
<rick_h_> hmmm, my checked back for pycon is exactly 50# according to my scale
<rick_h_> and that's the limit
<snap-l> fun fun. :)
<snap-l> Full house. We've got 8 folks here
<greg-g> rick_h_: holy cow, you packed a lot :)
<Blazeix> wooo chc
<greg-g> snap-l: nice!
<rick_h_droid> sweet
<rick_h_droid> greg-g yea, mics, stands, second laptop
<Blazeix> wow, it took me about 10 seconds to write 'wooo chc'. The wireless is somewhat lacking.
<rick_h_droid> moved 4 # of power adapters to backpack
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sheesh, it's like backpacking. :P
<rick_h_droid> i'm the over prepared type
<greg-g> that ain't my style of backpacking :)
<rick_h_droid> two laptop power adapters, spare batteries, etc
<rick_h_droid> could get awsy with less , but what if xxx happens
<Blazeix> gah, rick_h_droid's profile picture just showed up in my google results.
<Blazeix> he apparently shared jquery mobile on twitter, so his picture shows up next to the results now.
<rick_h_droid> lol, i'm everywhere! !!
<snap-l> mic delivered
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot, thank you sir
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> greg-g: bookie work, party part
<snap-l> party party
<greg-g> rick_h_: w00t! :)
<rick_h_> yea, some virtual CHC
<rick_h_> greg-g: crap, had wanted to chat before I left oh well
<rick_h_> looks like sprints might die off after a day/two
<rick_h_> so bookie si going to be getting a lot of love after the weekend
<greg-g> awesome!
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh, people you shold talk to: Asheesh Laroia (paulproteus) of Creative Commons (past) and OpenHatch. Also, Will Kahn-Greene (willkg) of Participatory Culture Foundation (Miro), and Chris Webber (cwebber) of Creative Commons
<greg-g> they will all be at PyCon and they're good people
<rick_h_> oh, awesome
<greg-g> tell them I sent you and they'll buy you a drink for having to deal with me
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> rick_h_ / snap-l wow, thanks guys for the kind words about my blog post in the lococast
<rick_h_> greg-g: :) thanks for the material to chat about
<greg-g> and dang, nice words about me in general
 * greg-g blushes
<rick_h_> just remember that when we kill you interview style :P
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> haha, jerks, softening me up so you can eviscerate me
<snap-l> I prever the term vivisection.
<greg-g> alright, UGJ announcement sent and blogged. That's good for the evening.
<wolfger> greg-g: "spectacular upgrade"? Are you drinking the Canonical brand kool-aid?
 * wolfger pokes the channel with a stick
 * rick_h_ stabs pack with a giant ray gun
<wolfger> Hey, isn't somebody here from Milan? jrwren?
<wolfger> ...
 * wolfger tries to picture rick_h_ wielding a giant ray gun... and *poking* with it instead of shooting it....
<wolfger> That's just a bizzarre mental image
<brousch> no, giant ray gun is his pet name for his â¦ bah, nevermind
<brousch> hah, anyone read shuttleworth's blog post today?
<brousch> "We handle that very well, I think, though occasionally some muppet calls Kubuntu the blue-headed-stepchild etc etc"
<brousch> nixternal the muppet!
<rick_h_> ok, time to shut down and pack up
<rick_h_> see you all on the mobile side
<brousch> break a leg!
<wolfger> have fun, rick_h_
<wolfger> If nixternal's a muppet, he must be Animal
 * wolfger goes off in search of Shuttleworth's blog post
<snap-l> Happy Birthday, jcastro!
<snap-l> Have fun, rick_h_ !
<greg-g> wolfger: hey man, its the official announcement, I'm trying to get attendees :)
<brousch> i was surprised to see a thanks from wolfger :P
<wolfger> :-p
<brousch> who, i just realized there's a business card on my desk, and the guy's last name is "Woltjer"
<wolfger> I love the way I try to file a bug on Launchpad that xxx doesn't work, and it helpfully suggests that my bug might be a duplicate of yyy doesn't work and zzz doesn't work
<wolfger> Woltjer? How odd.
<wolfger> Another bug filed
 * wolfger slowly rebuilds Launchpad karma
<wolfger> of course, it just makes me sad
<wolfger> to see how many bugs I'm subscribed to are *STILL* sitting there in an open state
<jcastro> thanks snap-l!
<wolfger> @shuttleworth: just drop Gnome and give more love to your blue-headed step-child. :-p
<wolfger> happy bday, jcastro
<greg-g> jcastro: what are you doing for your birthday? (and Happy Birthday!)
<jcastro> thanks guys!
<jcastro> greg-g: coming to U-M!
<jcastro> my wife sponsored a rib of a basilisaurus for the U-M Whale exhibit
<snap-l> ruh roh... better watch out U-M
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh that's awesome!
<jcastro> so we get to go see it at a party before the exhibit opens
<jcastro> and meet real paleontologists, etc.
<snap-l> Your buddy, Paleo Joe?
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> jcastro: rock!
<wolfger> Ugh. DST starts this weekend.
<snap-l> wolfger: And nobody has come out to abolish it
<wolfger> I really !@#$%^&* hate DST
<snap-l> I'm very disappointed that I don't have the change that I can believe in
<snap-l> I believe it's time to abolish DST.
<wolfger> snap-l for president!
<wolfger> Russia recently decided to move to DST permanently. Which is just as good
<wolfger> I don't care what time it is, I just want to keep flip-flopping twice a year.
<wolfger> s/keep/quit/
<snap-l> amen
<wolfger> holycrap, PainBank is in the house.
<wolfger> CHC road trip? http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/inaugural-open-data-waterloo-region-codefest-saturday-march-12-2011
<jrwren> if ya'll had to guess when FF4 would come out, when would you guess?
<jrwren> will IE9 be out before FF4 ?
<jrwren> jcastro: thanks for htat techcrunch interview
<jcastro> heh
<jrwren> rick_h_: if you meet Chris Webber, get his autograph and ask him to introduce you to some women. ;)
<wolfger> jrwren: FF4 is shipping with Natty... ;-)
<jrwren> wolfger: great info.
<jrwren> wolfger: default in natty?
<wolfger> Yes
<jrwren> excellent.
<wolfger> I don't know if that qulifies as "coming out", though... It seems to still be a beta version.
<jrwren> RC
<wolfger> but it's deemed stable enough for Canonical
<jrwren> its RC2 even.
<wolfger> ah, ok
<jrwren> but IE9 comes out in a week, so I guess IE9 will ship first.  if you would have asked me a year or two ago if FF4 would be out before IE9 I would have said "6mo before"
<jrwren> is it me or has FF4 taken forever?
<jrwren> Chrome has shipped like 5 versions in the time it has taken to go from 3.5 to 4 for FF
<wolfger> Sure
<wolfger> Young products do tend to ship lots of versions in shorter time than older products do
<wolfger> I think the time between FF4 and FF5 will be longer yet.
<wolfger> and it's also worth noting that there's no real metric there
<wolfger> One browser might go from  v1 to v2 while another goes from 3.5.11 to 3.5.12 with the same number of improvements
<jrwren> wolfger: yes, that is very noteworthy
<jrwren> wolfger: plus, chrome, while young, has the age of webkit with it. They get to stand on some mighty shoulders. Yet google is given lots of credit.
<greg-g> jrwren: I'm confused about the chris webber comment :)
<jrwren> maybe not too much credit. V8 is damned cool.
<jrwren> greg-g: Chris Webber was a NBA player. One of hte Umich Fab5 IIRC
<jrwren> pop culture talked about him dating Tyra Banks years ago when Tyra was hot and awesome and not dumb and annoying like she is now.
<greg-g> jrwren: ahhhhhhhhhhhh
<greg-g> sports references usually go right over me
<brousch> jcastro: awesome present from your wife. i was a docent a lab assistant at UMMA all through college
<snap-l> I would have never thought of that at all
<jcastro> brousch: I seriously mulled docenting at the detroit zoo
<jcastro> but didn't want to tie into a multi year commitment
<brousch> ah, i got to do it as work-study
<brousch> got paid ;)
<jcastro> jrwren: google's also committing more code to webkit than anyone else right now
<wolfger> Google ftw
<wolfger> does Chrome/Chromium have NoScript yet?
<wolfger> Or any other means of preventing clickjacking or other hostile scripts?
<jrwren> jcastro: I didn't know google was committing much to webkit. TY for htat info.
<jrwren> i imagine its all html5 support?
<jrwren> pretty cool that apple and the rest of us all get to benefit from all that.
<jcastro> jrwren: old but http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/06/google-apple-webkit/
<jrwren> anyone know where to see a more recent webkit-who output graph?
<wolfger> Why is PETA against pigeon racing? I just don't get it.
<wolfger> Oh, nevermind. Better question is: why do I care what PETA thinks? :-p
<snap-l> And there's your answer.
<snap-l> ugh, seems that Wordpress 3.1 grabs sidebar RSS feeds and doesn't cache the results like it used to
<snap-l> so the identi.ca group feed that I had on the side of openmetalcast is slowing things down
<snap-l> strange that it isn't doing the same for decafbad.net, though
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dsthu
<snap-l> Any opinions on this?
<snap-l> Bah, n/m, it's the X100e.
<jcastro> greg-g: any luck on the firefox accell stuff?
<greg-g> jcastro: none
<jcastro> snap-l: yeah that's the crap version before the one I got
<greg-g> I even tried install mesa and forcing it to use that, nothing
<greg-g> oh, good, then he leaves
<jjesse> just catching up on feeds after traveling, does Mark write posts to get flamed?
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> jjesse: I think he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't
<snap-l> I would not want to be mark for a day
<jjesse> me either
<snap-l> unless I got to decide the Unity direction
<jjesse> Mark could say 1+1 = 2 and people would be pissed at him for it
<snap-l> in which case, sign me up
<jjesse> wow 52 comments so far and no reference to hitler yet, i'm disapointed :)
<snap-l> heh
<wolfger> I still say Canonical should stop supporting Gnome and go another direction. Since Gnome clearly doesn't want their help (and *cough* sucks).
<wolfger> man... tough to stir this crowd up today.
<wolfger> I'm losing my touch?
<Blazeix> the problem is Mark wouldn't say "1+1=2". He'd say "It's time to rethink math. We're getting rid of addition. Who needs it?" :D
<Blazeix> wolfger: now _that_ is a proper troll.
<wolfger> LOL
<jjesse> as a kde guy i've enjoyed all the fedora posts about how gnome3 sucks and you should use kde or lxde instead
<wolfger> I'm trying to use xmonad, but it doesn't work at all on Naughty :-(
<wolfger> Ha! Just read a quick tutorial on xmonad, and it might not be broken after all... :-p (was planning to read tutorial from within xmonad so that I could follow along, but apparently if you don't know how to use it, you'll never figure it out on your own)
<_stink_> xmonad... i think that was one i didn't try.
<wolfger> I'm used to minialist wm's not having a start button of any sort, but usually you can bring up a menu with a right click or middle click, or even a left click on the background
<wolfger> xmonad says "throw your mouse away"
<wolfger> mod-p to launch dmenu
<wolfger> not intuitive in the least
<_stink_> oh yes.  i use stumpwm, ratpoison's better cousin.
<_stink_> the mouse must die.
<wolfger> _stink_: what did the poor little mouse ever do to you?
<_stink_> make me realize that i need 3 hands to use it and the keyboard at the same time
 * wolfger tries to remember a time (outside of MMORPGs) when he wanted to move the mouse around while simultaneously typing....
<_stink_> your solid logic will not sway me!
<wolfger> I'm looking for a window manager that simultaneous doesn't require and doesn't hate the mouse
<wolfger> The mouse is nice for getting things done single-handedly.
<Blazeix> I think resizing windows often requires you to press keys while mousing
<Blazeix> if you're using the alt+click method
<wolfger> I don't want to have to set my beverage down to open a term window (alt-shift-enter on xmonad)
<_stink_> i just hate moving my hand to and from the mouse.
<_stink_> whether or not the use is simultaneous
<wolfger> ok, I *could* hit those three keys with one hand, but it might give me muscle cramps
<wolfger> I can see hating the mouse when it comes to productive use of the computer, but for leisure use, the mouse rules
<Blazeix> Wise of you to bring this point up when rick_h_ isn't paying attention :)
<wolfger> mouse in one hand, drink/keyboard/phone/whatever in the other
<_stink_> yeah, i think rick_h_ would hate on me for not being rabid enough in my mouse hatred
<wolfger> I'm sure rick_h_ will read his log when he arrives at pycon
<wolfger> and craft a new Rick's Rants around me
<wolfger> :-p
<Milyardo> I find that mouse shortcuts are helpful when reading documents, instead of writing them
<Milyardo> mostly because I tend to read with my cursor
<snap-l> I'm hoping rick_h_ is actually on a plane
<snap-l> HIs tweet at 11:05am seems to state otherwise.
<wolfger> Anybody got physical access to rick_h_'s computer? Let's install a wm based entirely upon mouse gestures. :-D
<wolfger> Does anybody actually like/use mouse gestures? I've always thought that was the dumbest thing in the world
<snap-l> I personally getest mouse gestures
<wolfger> Although....
<snap-l> that's one level more than detest
<Milyardo> We can replace his keyboard with a left handed mouse for mutli-cursor gestures!
<wolfger> Using a mouse with a virtual keyboard and swype could be awesome
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001 is a mouse gesture lover.
 * wolfger waits for ColonelPanic001 to confirm or deny.
<Blazeix> the only place I like gestures is on my android phone.
<Blazeix> and those gestures are simple, like 'swipe up to open menu' and 'swipe down to open notification are'
<Blazeix> *area
<snap-l> http://blog.pythonisito.com/2011/03/allura-open-source-forge.html <- SF has open-sourced their beta platform
<snap-l> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1846215/SourceForge-Open-Sources-Their-Platform-Software?from=twitter
<wolfger_> Gah. Stupid webchat...
<wolfger_> interesting. Did a search for perl-based wm's and got nothing... searched for python-based wm's and saw that Circus WM was started in 2002, and apparently was instantly forgotten about.
<Blazeix> qtile is a pretty popular python wm. I think it's still pretty young, though.
<jjesse> yay for time change on sunday
 * wolfger_ shoots jjesse
<wolfger_> anybody else in favor of time change?
<Scott_firebeta> why can't they set clocks forward 1 hour permanently?
<brousch> politics
<brousch> that would be useful change, which all politicians are against
<jcastro> nixternal: what's up muppet?
<nixternal> according to hunch.com/muppet I am most like Animal & Cookie Monster, who just happen to be 2 of my favorites
<jjesse> i'm cookie monster
<nixternal> yeah, i would love to find out how they figured that. one test i took said i was beeker. no fuckin' way i am beeker
<brousch> http://www.nerdist.com/2011/03/muppet-alignment-chart/
<wolfger_> Scott_firebeta++
<wolfger_> LOL @ jcastro
<snap-l> Royal Oak Review has a story about a guy that accidentally discharged his shotgun while cleaning it
<snap-l> managed to shoot his TV
<snap-l> which leads me to believe that the military should use televisions as shielding in armed conflict
<snap-l> apparently all guns want to do is shoot your television.
<nixternal> was bristol palin on it by chance?
<snap-l> didn't say
<greg-g> wow, a zing from Ryan Paul: A platform bogged down by infighting has no future. The Linux desktop has marginalized itself. Too much ego and not enough actual progress.
<greg-g> oh, and to be followed up by: Future of Linux in consumer space is commercial mixed-source forks like webOS/Android. GNOME is going nowhere. I switched to a Mac this week
<greg-g> say hello to the author of "Open Ended" on Ars
<brousch> mmmmm, mac
<_stink_> how has the Linux desktop not made enough progress?
<snap-l> Apparently he's tired of waiting.
<brousch> waiting for what?
<greg-g> he doesn't say, other than "progress"
<snap-l> For whatever it was that he thought he was getting from OSS.
<_stink_> yeah.  i'm not a zealot but that is garbage.  like OS X is the bastion of progress?
<brousch> the biggest problem i have with linux is stuff (drivers) breaking on new releases. the thing i like most about osx is that the os and hardware are made for each other, and stuff doesn't break every 6 months
<snap-l> Well, to be fair, Mac is a very nice platform if what you're looking for is consistency.
<snap-l> All of the applications fundamentally work the same way
<snap-l> those that do not do not last very long.
<snap-l> I think the pendulum of OSS taking over the world is moving back
<nixternal> i wouldn't say it is moving back, but it isn't moving forward either. the same stuff going on now has gone on numerous times over the years
<snap-l> And I think it's because GNOME and Ubuntu are trying radical changes while leaving the desktop space in flux.
<nixternal> when suse sold out, it happened
<snap-l> nixternal: Suse, Nokia
<snap-l> there's a rumor that Red Hat may be up for sale
<nixternal> what i find funny, is all of the panic from those events, and all of the 'this or that is going to happen', never happened
<snap-l> I mean, it's getting a little bleak out there because companies are not able to make a lot of money.
<snap-l> nixternal: Most of the people who prognosticate this shit have very limited world-views
<nixternal> so true
<snap-l> there's only a handful of folks that I trust to make that kind of statement
<snap-l> because they've been in the trenches for so long
<brousch> linux is dead! long live android!
<snap-l> jzb is one of them
<nixternal> i kind of see why jcastro snapped about 5 years ago with his 'fuck it, i am going back to windows' rant. step back away from the community for a while and watch it, it looks far worse than it really is
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> except now if you say "fuck it I'm going mac" everyone thinks that's awesome
<nixternal> hahaha
<snap-l> It's true, though
<jcastro> "I'll show you, I'm leaving this single digit marketshare crap for ... oh wait, another single digit marketshare crap..."
<jjesse> lol
<snap-l> It's like saying you're ceoming a buddhist
<brousch> they don't think it's awesome, but i think they understand why
<nixternal> still i think mac is freakin' horrible. i hate everything about it usability wise, but i guess that is linux' fault since that is what i have been pretty much raised on
<jcastro> "I'm sick of the drama, I'm going to move to a platform ... oh wait, they invented platform drama..."
<jcastro> "oh wait, I'm just an asshole"
<jcastro> those are the three steps
<nixternal> jcastro: according to the latest mac is almost double digit now. i think either a high 8 or 9% :D
<Scott_firebeta> why is apple stock over $400 while Microsoft is sitting around $25?
<nixternal> Scott_firebeta: microsoft has split a million times, apple refuses to do so
<snap-l> Scott_firebeta: because Apple has a more developed mobile platform than Microsoft.
<snap-l> and that's where the money is
<nixternal> they think that if their stock is at $400, they will only get serious investors, whereas every mom and pop in the world owns microsoft stock
<snap-l> and the myriad of stock splits.
<nixternal> it used to be about volume, but it seems apple & microsoft trade at about the same volume these days
<nixternal> berksher hathway is a perfect example of this
<snap-l> That and you get a Microsoft stock certificate with every new PC purchase. ;)
<nixternal> berksher is currently trading at about $13,000 a share
<nixternal> snap-l: really? i never paid attention to the paperwork, it is always the first thing that gets thrown out :)
<snap-l> nixternal: Should read the license more carefully.
<jrwren> $400/share v. $25/share is meaningless.
<jrwren> learn about market valuations
<jrwren> its not evan a valid question.
<jrwren> and its definitely NOT about volume.
<Scott_firebeta> so there are less total shares of Apple?
<jrwren> look it up
<jrwren> but their marketcap is similar IIRC
<snap-l> It's because jrwren can't even use his shares as expensive tissue paper to wipe away the tears of sadness over Windows Phone 7
<jrwren> oh no.
<jrwren> 319 v. 213 marketcap for AAPL v. MSFT
<jrwren> what shares?
<jrwren> what sadness?
<snap-l> http://www.google.com/finance?q=msft+aapl
<snap-l> jrwren: There there... the pain must be excruciating for you
<jrwren> don't even know what you are talking about :)
<jrwren> troll harder.
<nixternal> jrwren: marketcap is all about volume, if it weren't, then wallstreet would be far more mad than it already is
<brousch> troll smarter, not harder
<snap-l> well, because Apple has provided their investors over 300% of a reason to invest with thim since 2007, while Microsoft is slowly costing folks money.
<nixternal> marketcap is the only regulation that has worked thus far for wallstreet
<snap-l> ie: Apple makes people money. Microsoft makes people use Visual Studio
<jrwren> " marketcap is all about volume"  <-- i don't even know what this means.
<jrwren> marketcap isn't a regulation, so that is a nonsensical statement
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization
<nixternal> marketcap, aka market capitlization is where they take the size of a company, shares outstanding, and share price, put it all together to create a necessary measurement, which just happens to be in volume (which i think they picked because they had no idea wtf volume meant in the old days)
<rick_h_> [6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~woo! made it to the hotel
<rick_h_> oops
<rick_h_> man, now they want $12 a day for internet
<nixternal> snap-l: how does apple make people money and microsoft doesn't? if that were true, then microsoft wouldn't be damn near 90% of the market
<jcastro> http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/26/microsoft-numbers/
<snap-l> nixternal: I can't answer everything, man
<jcastro> almost a year old
<jcastro> but worth a read
<nixternal> hahaha
<rick_h_> ruh roh, what are we chatting about?
<nixternal> rick_h_: Microsoft Michigan LoCo Team
<rick_h_> really?
<jcastro> rick_h_: nothing, just snap-l's typical apple fanboism. :p
<nixternal> yeah, I am moving there just to be a part of it <3
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> rick_h_: Segphault made a post that he's no longer using Linux as a desktop
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, saw that one
<nixternal> i am not using linux as a desktop either
<nixternal> i am using linux as an os and tool :p
<snap-l> and that turned into a Microsoft stock vs. Apple stock argument
<jrwren> i didn't say I didn't know what marketcap was. I said I don't understand your statements :p
<nixternal> jrwren: don't feel bad, either do i ;p
<nixternal> 4 years of fighting to finish an mba will do that to you
<jrwren> i can tell, since you did follow up and define marketcap incorreclty :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: And of course I tied it in to the developments with GNOME and UNity.
<jrwren> oh shit, you are an MBA and can't define marketcap?
<nixternal> well i didn't give it a true definition
<rick_h_> yea, well that seems to be part of his issue
<nixternal> i wasn't going to read from wikipedia and make it sound like it was my definition
<jrwren> maybe we are using different definitions of volume?
<nixternal> i just gave a quick mumbo-jumbo on it, i could always elaborate and go way in depth, but that is more for a face-to-face chat with a cognac and stogey
<jrwren> i hear volume and think an hours, days or weeks volume, as in the number of shares traded in that time period.
<nixternal> jrwren: exactly, our definitions of volume, what we were taught in school, doesn't necessarily make sense in regards to wall street. that is the confusing crap that i failed to come to grips with for the first 2 years of business schooling. made me realize i picked the wrong damn degree too :)
<nixternal> that and if you didn't cheat you weren't going to be an mba grad
<jrwren> how is that not a valid definition of volume?
<nixternal> oh, i didn't see your comment before my last. volume in the trading world is all about how much is in the till and how much is leaving the till (ie. how full is the till), which is controlled/regulated/looking for the right word, in regards to market capitalization
<nixternal> think i should have proofed that last line before hitting enter, as i got lost using the word till so many times
<jrwren> i think i see what you mean.
<nixternal> reuters has good information on this stuff, and so does bloomberg. so if there is a day you feel like blowing your head off, don't. read those first, then blow your head off :)
<nixternal> it is the most boring shit in the world, and i can't believe i shelled out so much money in an attempt to learn that crap, when i should have been doing computer science instead. thankfully market shit was only a semester and a half
<rick_h_> snap-l: I think segfault has been kidnapped
<rick_h_> finished identica and now linux
<jrwren> nixternal: i understand the relation now.
<jrwren> I'd never considered it.
<jrwren> its not boring at all, its how our world works.
<jrwren> but why shell out money for anything. you could just use your library card ;)
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> it was all about that paper, the mba moniker...or really, all about the money
<jrwren> since the numbers I deal with are never large enough for volume's relation to marketcap to matter, I'd never considered it.
<jrwren> although I do own some low volume trusts that can effect liquidity. I should pay more attn to that
<nixternal> probably more important if you are day trading. if you learn how it all moves then you can tell yourself when a market is becoming bullish or bearish and not wait for that guy on cnbc to tell you after the stock market closes for the day
<snap-l> rick_h_: Same here
<snap-l> I think we need an intervention
<rick_h_> heh, I don't blame him. He's becoming a fan of the closed software
<rick_h_> http://twitter.com/#!/segphault/status/45948224002985984
<snap-l> I think we've all been there
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> and for what he does, it's not like he does a lot of stuff where you want that server as much like the desktop/dev environment stuff
<rick_h_> most of his articles come out of VMs anyway
<brousch> i love having all 3 OSes available on the same machine in VMs
<rick_h_> man, thi shotel sucks
<brousch> rick_h_: shouldn't you be out mingling by now?
<rick_h_> waiting for my roomy to arrive so I can give him a key
<rick_h_> and catching up on tons of work email
<rick_h_> man, you leave and suddenly emails go nuts
<rick_h_> http://twitter.com/#!/markramm/status/45907183665291264 awesome
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I saw that. :)
<snap-l> Welcome to the big leagues. :)
<brousch> awwwwwwww, how sweet
<brousch> all it needs a picture of you and mark ramm hugging
<snap-l> brousch: be areful what you wish for
<brousch> a christian side hug of course, so your pythons don't touch :P
<snap-l> I totally could have left that image alone
<brousch> you're welcome
<_stink_> is 'areful' a typo for 'careful' or 'arseful'?
<snap-l> careful
<_stink_> darn
<snap-l> Whatever you were planning to do with arseful, knock yourself out, and leave me clean out of it.
<_stink_> i was trying to set up brousch.
<brousch> i went over the line with pythons. i don't need to leap into arseful
<brousch> snap-l: did i send this to you yet? http://portal.friendika.com/
<snap-l> You might have
<Milyardo> ls
<snap-l> Bad command or filename
<Milyardo> :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-11
<snap-l> http://www.oobject.com/category/insane-asylum-plans/
<snap-l> I find it a little disturbing that there's three insane asylum hospital plans for Michigan
<Blazeix> whoa, I just accidentally found out you can resize the Awesome WM layouts using super+right_click.
<Blazeix> I'd been wondering if there was a way to do that.
<wolfger> Morning, everybody
<wolfger> Even rick_h_ who is off enjoying Pycon :-p
<rick_h_> woot!
<brousch> were you up all night hacking on pyramid?
<brousch> whoa, check this job out http://ow.ly/4coLG
<brousch> php, python, java, cassandra, $80k - $100k
<brousch> xbox360?!
<rick_h_> brousch: heh no. Went out with Mark Ramm and some guys
<brousch> so you were up all night talking about hacking on pyramid?
<rick_h_> closer
<rick_h_> we had some django guys at dinner to we teamed up and crushed them
<brousch> crushed them?
<rick_h_> yea, basically told them all the sucki-ness of django
<brousch> did they cry?
<rick_h_> almost, we took it easy on them
<brousch> so what is sucky besides the orm?
<rick_h_> the lack of wsgi, the template layer, the hacks in the codebase itself that make it impossible to read/work on
<_stink_> morning
<rick_h_> and the community with their stupid irc peeps chasing me out of their channel :)
<brousch> i'm sure you were trolling in there
<brousch> oh man, my jaw is dropped and will not shut http://www.fcsuper.com/swblog/?p=2662
<brousch> free cross-platform 2D CAD from Solidworks. we pay about $1000/seat/yr for autocad
<wolfger> Gee... I wonder why they would chase rick_h_ out of their IRC channel with an attitude like that? :-p
<wolfger> I mean, it's kinda like going into #gnome to post pro-Unity comments... ;-)
<rick_h_> naw, it's a long story
<rick_h_> but this was a while ago
<rick_h_> snap-l remembers it I'm sure
<wolfger> PS: I tried Xmonad last night, for a little bit. I like it for the most part....
<rick_h_> <3
<wolfger> only thing I don't like is, the nm-applet has no place to live
<wolfger> so when I'm having wifi issues, I'm kinda lost
<rick_h_> ah, in Awsome I have a tray still
<rick_h_> so I run the nm-applet and my dropbox icon gets a home
<wolfger> is that default behavior on Awesome, or did you set it up to be that way?
<rick_h_> default
<rick_h_> yea, I think in xmonad you can run a tray app
<rick_h_> yea, with traey
<rick_h_> trayer
<rick_h_> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Config_archive/John_Goerzen's_Configuration
<wolfger> Good stuff. Thanks!
<_stink_> does something like pypanel work in xmonad?
<_stink_> at least that's what i used a couple of years ago in stumpwm.
<_stink_> and it'll host gnome applets just fine.
<wolfger> I'll probably give Awesome, Stumpwm, and Ion all a try (based on a random web endorsement of Ion, and a curiosity about something I've never even heard of before)
<_stink_> wolfger: when you get around to stumpwm, let me know.  also, the version in the repo is waay out of date, so grab it from git.
<wolfger> Heh. Somebody should file a bug to update stumpwm, then.
<wolfger> And then package it for Ubuntu.
<wolfger> :-)
 * wolfger looks at _stink_
<_stink_> o.o
<_stink_> i've thought about it...
<snap-l> Yeah, I remember when rick_h_ was chased from Django
<snap-l> because he asked about using nose for testing, iirc.
<snap-l> http://ac31004.blogspot.com/2011/03/so-you-think-you-own-your-twitter-name.html
<rick_h_> snap-l: it was funny because the django fan at dinner was like "we use a django-nose package for that"
<rick_h_> and I was like "I KNOW! that came out as a great feature 6mo after I was asking for help with it"
<rick_h_> but when I wanted to do it I was a moron, don't do it
<rick_h_> 6mo later it's a great django feature
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, NIH in action
<shortcircuit> wolfger: There's something you said yesterday that I agreed with, but I don't remember exactly what it was.
<shortcircuit> Something about mice and keyboard.
<wolfger> shortcircuit: Wow, somebody agreed with something I said?
<wolfger> I roughly said, the mouse is garbage for productivity use, but essential for leisure use
<wolfger> If I'm working on something on my computer, I shouldn't ever have to touch the mouse, but when I'm just chillin'/surfing/being social, I should be able to do everything with one hand.
<wolfger> ...and I want a WM that suits both those needs. There doesn't seem to be one. They all go to one extreme or the other.
<jjesse> i use an external mouse the same way on my laptop, 90% of the time i use the laptop's mouse but when i need to get somethng done i use the external mouse, hate lifting my hand from the keyboard
<brousch> shortcircuit is a friend of mine from over here on the west side. he runs the weekly grlug social meetings and is one of you oddball window manager guys
<shortcircuit> wolfger: the 'awesome' wm seems to work reasonably well for me.
<shortcircuit> If I hold the Windows key down, I can drag windows around to the tiles I want them in. Otherwise, I use keyboard shortcuts.
<greg-g> shortcircuit: welcome to the channel
<shortcircuit> Well, actually, I only just discovered the drag-to-tiles a minute ago. I didn't realize it worked in the tiling modes.
<shortcircuit> Disclaimer: I'm not a real fan of Ubuntu; I tend to be among the edge case users whose apps and preferences don't work well.
<wolfger> Hey, since greg-g started logging this room, we could find exactly what I said. :-)
<wolfger> I'm pretty sure I said it better yesterday. Today I'm kinda busy at work :-p
<shortcircuit> (Which is the primary reason I'm interested in helping the testing on the east side of the state)
<shortcircuit> I'm in here because brousch told me there were some folks in here who like tiling window managers. :)
<jjesse> we are not all ubuntu talk all the time
<brousch> shortcircuit: if you wander back to about 8:14 this morning you can see the tiling talk
<binbrain> quiet here this morning, everybody but me must be at pycon
<brousch> it was noisy until 9:25
<jjesse> we come and go
<jjesse> based on werk
<snap-l> or shoveling.
<snap-l> http://img.znsinsite.com/screenshots/tech-supp-03-2011.png
<greg-g> snap-l: http://www.ntchosting.com/apache-server-linux.html
<greg-g> they say they use debian
<snap-l> Yeah, but scripts? Never.
<greg-g> yeah, they say things like "popular PHP scripts available" when talking about mediawiki/wordpress/etc
<greg-g> it is a common word to use for "apps" in some other parts of the world
<snap-l> Well, PHP is just a script on steroids
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> very true
<greg-g> btw, why did I feel the need to research that?
<greg-g> anyways... goes to a meeting
<brousch> bad steroids, tainted with gonorrhea
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/hEG/
<snap-l> Read the bottom of this
<jrwren> php is a script on steroids???
<jrwren> perl is a sript.
<jrwren> python is a script.
<jrwren> java is a script on steroids.
<jrwren> C# and all .net languages is a script on steroids.
<snap-l> Java is not a script, nor is C#
<jrwren> how so?
<snap-l> It just has a target machine that is not physical
<jrwren> my C# is.
<snap-l> Isn't C# compiled?
<jrwren> so does PHP and Python
<snap-l> Ah, I see what you're thinking. :)
<jrwren> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=python+bytecode    ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, scripts are a poorly-used term
<snap-l> I've defined them as something that doesn't require a separate compile step prior to running (me personally, not the computer)
<jrwren> poor definition.
<wolfger> jrwren: perl is sed/awk on steroids (or so I've been told)
<jrwren> i like hte dictionary best.
<jrwren> wolfger: you don't know sed/awk?
<jrwren> sed+awk=<3
<jrwren> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3Ascript  :0
<snap-l> jrwren: Generally speaking, if I need sed / awk, I run to perl
<snap-l> there's a few simple one-liners where I prefer sed / awk
<jrwren> i used too, but I don't anymore.
<snap-l> but once it grows beyond that, Perl is my poison
<jrwren> definitely love perl.
<wolfger> jrwren: I know them. We're not BFF's or next door neighbors, though.
<wolfger> wolfger+perl4eva
<jrwren> thinking about awk and bash in debian/ubuntu just makes me angry.
<jrwren> /dev/tcp in one and not the other is stupid.
<jrwren> proof that debianistas are stupid
<snap-l> OK, how about General Purpose Dynamic Languages. ;)
<jrwren> like C#?
<snap-l> and PHP... ;)
<jrwren> :)
 * snap-l needs to play more with C#
<snap-l> not that I really think it's the bee's knees, but it looks like where Java could have gone had they not thrown everything on top of it.
<snap-l> and then sat on it, wondering why it wasn't going anywhere.
<jrwren> "they" is hte problem with java.
<jrwren> if brian had just kept it, it might have lived.
<snap-l> Well, had it not become the silver bullet dujour
<jrwren> err James rather.
<jrwren> but maybe James could have given it to brian :)
<jrwren> i wonder if perl would move somewhere if larry gave it away
<snap-l> Well, if Brian was in marketing, they shouldn't have given it to him
<jrwren> Brian Goetz?
<snap-l> No, I mean Brian in Marketing
<snap-l> (small attempt at humor)
<wolfger> It's not a question of whether or not Brian has it, it's a question of whether the followers of Brian's gourd or the followers of Brian's shoe are correct. That's a nasty battle you don't want any part of.
<jrwren> no, I think I do.
<jrwren> its a battle that has been a non issue for Linus, Larry and Guido
<jrwren> but in Java the players said "this could be a battle" and threw down their weapons and went home and hugged and said, "lets drink together and not be productive at all."
<wolfger> and snap-l: wtf with that tech support snapshot?
<snap-l> Java is what happens when you have a company try very hard to not let anyone else have fun with it's toys.
<snap-l> wolfger: nfc. That was on reddit.
<snap-l> But it's a really stupid answer, regardless.
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> toys!
<wolfger> ...and Perl is what happens when you don't lay down any hard rules about how people can play with the toys.
<wolfger> and it's great fun.
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> just a little messy
<jrwren> i don't think so.
<jrwren> perl is what happens when you go home.
<jrwren> perl hasn't changed significantly in 10 yrs.
<jrwren> I was alluding to language changes.
<wolfger> does it need to change?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> nothing NEEDS to change :)
<jrwren> but it should would be nice to be more efficient
<jrwren> to get more done with less
<wolfger> depends on your definitions of more and less
<wolfger> I'd say Perl already lets us do more with less
<wolfger> compared to any other language I've experienced
<wolfger> there's other languages that do more
<jrwren> hahaha.
<wolfger> but certainly not with less
<jrwren> I can't agree with that.
<wolfger> I think the essential ingredients are missing from your statement. More *of what* with less *of what*
<wolfger> More manipulation of text files with less lines of code? Be hard to improve over Perl 5.
<wolfger> More maintenance of old code with less headaches? OK, Perl's majorly hurting on that one... :-p
<greg-g> wow, my old boss is getting into the retweeting of info about the gnome/canonical craziness, retweeting this link: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/03/collaborations-demise.html?showComment=1299807005600#c2417381301530751354
<greg-g> I just find it interesting that he (@rejon) is doing that, he normally doesn't too much
<greg-g> though, that is a pretty damning comment
<wolfger> German word of the day: schwanger
<wolfger> means "pregnant"
<wolfger> and somehow I knew a word like schwanger had do have something to do with sex...
<_stink_> "Es tut mir leid, aber ich habe deinen Schwester schwanger."
<jrwren> more of everything with less lines of code.
<snap-l> rick_h_: How much was the printed version of the Pyramid guide?
<snap-l> Somehow I have a feeling that Segphault is going to get his wish for a commercial company to spearhead the Linux Desktop
<snap-l> after seeing the rift between GNOME and Ubuntu, I can see a fork coming in the near future.
<snap-l> s/Ubuntu/Canonical/
<wolfger> and soon we'll have Gbuntu....
<wolfger> sounds like what you say to somebody who sneezed.... *achoo*; "Gbuntu".
<rick_h_> snap-l: $70 :/
<snap-l> Holy shit, that's expensive.
<brousch> geez, is it printed by Steve Jobs himself?
<snap-l> God, my VPN is running sllllllloooooooowwwwwwwwww
<brousch> hey, He has a lot of things to worry about right now. your VPN is low on His list
<snap-l> god is not an iphone. I think he can multitask. ;)
<snap-l> > Any idea of how much it will be?
<snap-l> Not entirely sure, but somewhere between $40-$50 likely (up to the
<snap-l> bookseller himself).
<snap-l> That's a little much for a book, I'm afraid
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<rick_h_> well there's a bookstore here selling them
<rick_h_> so I think that bookstore cranked it
<snap-l> That's what I mean
<rick_h_> I think you can order them from the self-publish site probably for less
<rick_h_> I really shouldn't have bought it
<snap-l> > Any idea of how much it will be?
<snap-l> Not entirely sure, but somewhere between $40-$50 likely (up to the
<snap-l> bookseller himself).
<rick_h_> the weight of this giant volume will set me over the backage weight limit
<snap-l> Bah, sorry about that
<snap-l> http://gobretail.com/pod.php
<brousch> rick_h_: mail it to yourself mediamail
<brousch> cost like $3
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<snap-l> or even a oriority mail medium flat rate
<snap-l> shouldn't be more than $6.
<wolfger> what book are we talking about?
<brousch> wow, some of these photos are unbelievable http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gallery/photos-massive-quake-unleashes-tsunami-on-japan/
<wolfger> aren't they?
<wolfger> entire buildings, on fire, floating out to sea
<wolfger> a massive whirlpool
<wolfger> a massive column of fire
<brousch> don't piss off poseidon
<brousch> ouch, a smackdown frm miguel de icaza: "notes that proprietary systems have advantages â such as video and audio systems that rarely break. 'I spent so many years battling with Linux and something new is broken every time,' he says. 'We as an open source community, we don't seem to get our act together when it comes to understanding the needs of end users on the desktop.'"
<wolfger> Miguel++
<wolfger> We're a bunch of itch-scratchers
<wolfger> if a bug doesn't affect a dev directly, good luck convincing him to work on it.
<jjesse> didn't rick_h_ say something like that earlier this week?
<wolfger> especially when it comes to hardware driver issues... volunteer coders aren't going to go buy your laptop just to duplicate your problem and fix it.
<wolfger> on the flip side, considering what a ragtag bunch we really are, it's damned impressive that Linux works as well as it does.
<wolfger> Now how much of that is due to the contributions of companies like Canonical, Google, IBM, etc who have paid devs to work on things? No clue.
<snap-l> There's definitely a lot of direction-making in those companies
<snap-l> for good or ill
<Milyardo> I wouldn't call any direction in a project ill, just sub-optimal
<Milyardo> as no direction is always worst than a sub-optimal one
<snap-l> I'd argue that bad directions are worse than no directions
<snap-l> at least you can pull out of a non-direction.
<snap-l> but that said, not everyone would agree on the right direction
<wolfger> Hey, that channel-logging is good stuff. Time to fire up the Perl and do evil. }:-)
<snap-l> Anyone have a need for any Nokia chargers?
<snap-l> I have the one that fits the N700, and two cellphone chargers (slow)
<snap-l> one is an in-car charger
<snap-l> I'll pay shipping to the lower 48
<snap-l> Just want them out of the house. ;)
<jrwren> the flip side to that is often our itches do align with regular people and not with corporate interests.  cameras working OOTB on ubuntu but needing drivers to work on windows comes to mind.
<jrwren> not to mention the sea of hardware that still works with linux but can't work with Windows7 because they were XP devices and vendors never made newer drivers.
<jrwren> or the other way around where people still run XP but can't find drivers.
<jrwren> so there is good and bad.
<snap-l> Yeah, that's very true
<rick_h_> ugh, of course work crap breaks while I'm afk at a conference
<rick_h_> wheeee
<snap-l> rick_h_: Never fails
 * snap-l is ownloading .net microframework to check something for a customer.
<rick_h_> so sitting in my room fixing crap
<rick_h_> wooo! you win!
<snap-l> yeah, especially since it needs VS to run
<brousch> good luck with that monstrous download and install
<snap-l> Installing the C# portion just for grins
<snap-l> We'll see how far it goes
<snap-l> Apparently my bitching karma is coming around to slap me. :)
<snap-l> bitching karma: bitch about something long enough, and it becomes part of my job. :)
<Blazeix> heh, fwiw, I like VS2010 better than eclipse.
<snap-l> ie: bitch about java, and eventually I'll be installing Netbeans
<Blazeix> As long as you stay away from the whole "integrated everything" stack and just code.
<snap-l> I'm just looking to consume a wsdl to see what the error someone is getting
<snap-l> and see if they're doing something wonky.
<snap-l> no  development for me
<Blazeix> uhoh, consuming wsdl is the start of the integrated everything route
<snap-l> yeah, figures. :)
 * snap-l wishes he had a VM for Windows
<Blazeix> you were complaining a while back about VB, right? Be careful.
<snap-l> I will quit
<snap-l> also, thank you for reminding karma of that
<Blazeix> heh.
<snap-l> I hope you have a couch that I can sleep on
<snap-l> and of course, I'm over at my parents while JoDee does laundry, using up their 1.5Mbps DSL
<Milyardo> I think its time I upgraded from my Dream soon, but I'm not sure what I should get
<Milyardo> I was thinking maybe the Nexus S?
<Milyardo> Not sure whats the best Android phone on the market at the moment
<Blazeix> when I was browsing android phones I liked phandroid.com
<Milyardo> Or even the better custom ROMs either, Dream development has really slowed down
<Blazeix> I've been running the cyanogenmod 7 nightlies for a while. I highly recommend it.
<Milyardo> For the Dream?
<Milyardo> I didn't think cyanogen did dream nightlys anymore
<Blazeix> hm, looks like it isn't available for the dream :(
<Milyardo> Yeah
<brousch> i really need to try CM
<snap-l> Only Microsoft would require you to restart your machine to install a fucking IDE.
<snap-l> Fuck me for being productive.
<brousch> if you're lucky you'll only need 1 reboot
<snap-l> not helping. :)
<jjesse> dont forget all the updates
<snap-l> Hey, lookie thar... http://j.mp/eTicd4
<snap-l> Twitter doesn't care about app people.
<Milyardo> Translations:Advertisers on our network don't like it when they aren't seen in trending streams on 3rd party clients, so we're going to display all that suff for you!
<snap-l> Well, when your favorite android app breaks because Twitter says it should say "favorite" instead of "like", just remember that identi.ca don't care. ;)
<jcastro> right, instead you'd get flamed for using seesmic because it isn't floss
<snap-l> jcastro: and you can't say "fuck 'em?"
<greg-g> silently ignore
<snap-l> that's what the block button is for
<snap-l> keeps the fucknuts at bay.
<greg-g> hah
<brousch> but i can follow you and greg-g on twitter. all the rest are fucknuts, so who needs identica?
<greg-g> there are a few people on identi.ca who aren't on twitter that I wish to follow, friends and other foss geeks that aren't fucknuts
<snap-l> yeah, same here
<snap-l> and I care about openness on the platform
<snap-l> http://scripting.com/stories/2011/03/11/twittersNewDeveloperRoadma.html
<snap-l> 1. If you make a Twitter client, you have a bit of time to get out of that business. If you were thinking about writing one, don't.
<snap-l> jcastro: Are you going to see Rush next month?
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> jrwren: You're a better man than I, because I can't figure this shit out
<snap-l> what to download, etc.
<brousch> snap-l: it's almost as bad as eclipse
<brousch> then the fact that you're using windows and microsoft software makes it worse
<snap-l> that's damning
<snap-l> brillant... I can't get a copy of Visual Studio 2008 Express.
<snap-l> It's only 2010, and the micro framework SDK that I downloaded only works with 2008-2010, or 2008 express.
<greg-g> http://evan.status.net/conversation/717972  "I bet if we cut this goose open we can get all the gold out without having to wait for each egg!"
<greg-g> btw, THAT LINK is why I love statusnet and will stay with it. Do you see what is happening there? StatusNet is forcing twitter to have conversation view. Ingenious. Pretty. Needed.
<greg-g> now, we'll see if it can still do this in 6 months, but for now it is the best thing since sliced bread
<snap-l> greg-g: Yep, that's a lifesaver, especially when someone you respect says something like "@person: Yep, I couldn't agree more!"
<snap-l> Couldn't agree more on what?
<snap-l> global warming? OSS use in education? Sarah Palin is an escaped insane asulum patient?
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> timmy fell down a well?
<snap-l> what, boy, speak!
<rick_h_> snap-l: getting our podcast some love
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome. What do I have to edit? :)
<rick_h_> Amber is down here, chat with her for a bit and she got us another interview person
<snap-l> Awesomesauce.
<rick_h_> nothing yet, will see about my nightly tonight, but looks like joint recording stuff will be sunday
<rick_h_> with the FPIP guys
<greg-g> rock!
<rick_h_> and then after that will be sprint stuff
<snap-l> Awesome... Ididn't know that the First phillipine industrial park was using python
<rick_h_> we also chat about getting some linkage on some of the stuff she's working on
<snap-l> (and no, I didn't know what you meant until about the 4th link)
<brousch> hootsuite gives twitter conversation view ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<rick_h_> who was the openstack community guy you were checking the newsletter for?
<greg-g> rick_h_: well, I was doing it out of my own interest, but the guy who mans @openstack_com_manger or some such crappy twitter name
<rick_h_> ok, I think I'm sitting with him at an openspace bof for openstack
<rick_h_> you ever send that feedback in? Or I'll just not bring it up
<greg-g> Stephen Spector
<greg-g> I didn't bring it up with him
<rick_h_> k, just checking
<greg-g> but feel free to (but mention my name, please, I'm trying to get some connections there)
<rick_h_> k
<greg-g> @opnstk_com_mgr
 * greg-g goes home
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<rick_h_> Tiling BoF at 8pm woo!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-12
<_stink_> rick_h_: jealous!
<rick_h_> _stink_: check out qtile, evidently it was cool
<rick_h_> I missed the lightning talk, but hoping to see it at the BoF
<_stink_> that's the python one, eh?
<_stink_> will do.
<snap-l> evening...
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> How's the tiling BoF?
<snap-l> Or is everyone passing by with their macbook pros?
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> _stink_: a former stump guy here
<rick_h_> but had to leave, kept crashing when he undocked and didn't do dual display well for him
<rick_h_> Blazeix: but he's on arch so trying to convince him to give awesome a try
<_stink_> rick_h_: dual displays works great for me... but not necessarily surprised about the docking
<rick_h_> gotcha
<_stink_> lots of development going on in stumpwm over the last two weeks, kind of a nice surprise
<rick_h_> nice
<jjesse> probablly late to the party but really enjoying jeff waugh's posts on gnome, etc
<snap-l> jjesse:Me too
<rick_h> snap-l: ping
<snap-l> Y'know, I love all of this "FML! TWITTER IS SCREWING APP DEVELOPERS"
<snap-l> and nobody is doing a damn thing about it, like, oh, I dunno... leading the charge to get federated or something
<greg-g> it is the same story we see over and over again with twitter, apple, facebook, whatever
<snap-l> Wah! Developer abu.... oh, shiny.
<snap-l> I guess all of those people in Egypt / Japan / wherever better get used to using Twitter on their Smartphone-enabled web browsers when the next shit hits the fan
<snap-l> And with that, I banish my Steve Job stuffed CEO doll to the corner, and bid you all goodnight.
<greg-g> g'night!
<rick_h_> morning party folks
<_stink_> morning
<rick_h_> anyone know why echo -n 60 | sudo tee /proc/acpi/video/VID/LCD0/brightness would get me an invalid argument error?
<rick_h_> woo! starting the day off with vim
<rick_h_> https://github.com/alfredodeza/chapa.vim
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> Pycon day 1 episode is out: http://lococast.net/archives/398
<rick_h_> snap-l: rules, that is all
<snap-l> np. :)
<snap-l> Did you like thei intro / outro? :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: listened to intro and sounded awesome
<rick_h_> honestly didn't make it to extro
<rick_h_> trust you :)
<snap-l> You might want to fast-forward, then. :)
<snap-l> About 18:00
<jcastro> greg-g: finally an answer to your question!
<jrwren> snap-l: you had to install VS to run something?  FAIL!
<jrwren> snap-l: i was AFK, but if you needs .net or vs help, lemme know.
<jrwren> you are doing microframework+wsdl?
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, no kidding. And a good one, too. I'm really surprised I never found that anywhere in my searches :/
<jcastro> greg-g: it's ok, that's why the site is there
<jcastro> greg-g: I find my own answers all the time since the internet sucks.
<greg-g> jcastro: hah
<brousch> greg-s new moniker: "From now on I'm referring to fixie-obsessed hipsters as pedalphiles."
<rick_h_> fixie?
<Blazeix> fixed wheel bicycle
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> jrwren: Thanks. What's the best way to get wsdl.exe on a modern Windows machine?
<jrwren> snap-l: download mono for windows and use its wsdl?
<jrwren> or do you have to use MSFTs wsdl.exe ?
<snap-l> The question I have is about Microsoft's wsdl.exe
<jrwren> its in my path, but I can't find it on my system.  *sigh*  i long for which.
<jrwren> oh yeah... cygwin.
<snap-l> I'm not doing this personally, it's for someone on work's support site
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> do they not longer ship it with VS2010 express?
<jrwren> or V C# 2010 express?
<snap-l> Doesn't apper to be with it
<snap-l> I think it's with the .net SDK, but the micro sdk 4.0 doesn't work with VS2010 C# Express
<jrwren> hrm, i guess that makes sense, its "legacy" for MSFT.
<jrwren> micro SDK is for .net compatible arduino. you can safely ignore it for anything real .NET
<jrwren> micro.net is basically not really .net
<snap-l> ah, OK
<snap-l> What package should I be looking at then?
<jrwren> you might need full Visual Studio. you should be able to get a trial.
<snap-l> fun fun. :)
<jrwren> are they really using wsdl.exe?
<jrwren> do you want me to check for you?
<snap-l> acc to the post they made, they are.
<snap-l> and they're getting warnings with our wsdls
<jrwren> are your wsdls public? can i run against it right now and send you results?
<jrwren> or do you want RDP to a windows box with it?
<snap-l> They're public
<snap-l> one sec.
<brousch> hah, awesome avatar http://www.meetup.com/grwebdev/members/14231320/photos/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-13
<jjesse> evening
<_stink_> yo
<jjesse> que pasa?
<_stink_> so i just googled that
<_stink_> and if it means what i think it means
<_stink_> then - not much
<_stink_> most Saturday nights i'd be trying to code, but i think tonight i'm going to do something else.
<jjesse> most nights wife and i sit around catching up on the dvr
<jjesse> but tonight she is out grocery shopping while caleb sleeps
<jjesse> so i'm bored :)
<jrwren> getting ready to go to necto
<jrwren> should be fun.
<jjesse> necto?
<jrwren> some 80s new wave retro night in the red room.
<_stink_> i think you replaced the unknown word 'necto' with another unknown phrase 'red room'
<rick_h_> _stink_: no code?!
<rick_h_> madness
<rick_h_> snap-l: it's train NC dude night
<rick_h_> he's at pycon for the 3 days here
<snap-l> rick_h_: I hopehe didn't bring dress shirts
<snap-l> because after your done strangling him, they won't fit anymore.
<rick_h_> heh, we'll see
<rick_h_> been very civil so far
<snap-l> yes, he's in arm's reach
<rick_h_> yes, he is....
<greg-g> _stink_: necto is a club here, I can only assume the red room is a special area at it, I've actually never been there
<snap-l> rick_h_: Had you two met prior to this?
<rick_h_> no, first encourter
<rick_h_> encounter
<snap-l> And now he knows that you're serious. ;)
<rick_h_> heh
<_stink_> rick_h_: way to make me feel guilty :P
<rick_h_> hah, working on trying out lettuce for BDD here
<snap-l> Hah, I wonder if Gwibber just got blocked by twitter. :)
<greg-g> just?
<snap-l> Last tweet in my stream is from 18 minutes ago
<snap-l> and there's several in there
<greg-g> shit, you're right
<greg-g> though, I'm not getting the latest notices from identi.ca
<snap-l> Interesting, that broke too
 * greg-g shrugs
<snap-l> oh well
<snap-l> I was hoping it was something twitter did. ;)
<greg-g> yeah, kind
<greg-g> a
<greg-g> but that doesn't make any sense, unless both identica and twitter changed something in their APIs at the same time :/
<snap-l> or Gwibber isn't DST compliant. ;)
<greg-g> oh damn
<snap-l> Not sure that would have a bearing on it, since the clock didn't change yet
 * greg-g finds it funny that he started swearing MORE after the channel started being logged
<snap-l> Who is logging the fucking channel? :)
<greg-g> wiat a second...
<greg-g> yeah, this is some weird timezone thing
<greg-g> I have things all out of order
<greg-g> crap
<greg-g> snap-l: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/734136
<greg-g> feel free to edit my description to make it better/more informative
<snap-l> confirmed, and added my own screenshot
<greg-g> thanks
<greg-g> so, this is most likely, the offending code:
<greg-g> def generate_time_string(t): if isinstance(t, str): return t t = mx.DateTime.TimestampFromTicks(t) d = mx.DateTime.gmt() - t
<greg-g> huh, werid that wasn't pasted as multiple lines but all as one
<greg-g> https://pastee.org/yhw9b
<greg-g> starting at line 105 here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gwibber-committers/gwibber/trunk/view/head:/gwibber/util.py (if you have any ideas of how to account for this)
<greg-g> and now, for something completely different: http://i.imgur.com/wqCe9.jpg
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I want to know what planet Amazon lives on that thinks that they can ship a board game that weighs as much as a baby, with sides longer than a foot for $3.99
<snap-l> Good morning
<_stink_> morning
<greg-g> morning
<nixternal> this jump ahead an hour crap has to stop
<snap-l> amen
<brousch> nixternal: heard about your laptop. that really sucks
<nixternal> what really sucks are the prices of laptops these days
<nixternal> looking for one that has a higher resolution than 1366x768. solid state would be nice but doesn't matter. needs to compile c++ (specifically kde stuff) rather nicely
<nixternal> luckily i have a backup laptop, but it sucks to be honest, except for the keyboard. by far still the best keyboard ever on a laptop
<greg-g> if true, Diaspora is dead: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_to_launch_major_new_social_network_called_c.php
<snap-l> Is it federated?
<brousch> nixternal: you have some bad luck with your computers. didn't they get destroyed in a storm a year or two ago?
<snap-l> If not, then it's no better tha buzz
<brousch> snap-l: it is google. it needs no further federation
<nixternal> yeah, i am using a laptop that did get destroyed, but is still usable :)
<greg-g> snap-l: buzz allows you to share with only certain circles of friends?
<brousch> yes, you can share a post with only a specific group of people, which you assemble from your gmail contacts
<brousch> default is public
<snap-l> Just did my tax return.
<snap-l> (yay)
<jcastro> jrwren: the entire joel video is now available: http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/13/founder-stories-spolsky-startup/
<jcastro> the bottom video
<jcastro> I am surprised, this is like a rarely high quality set of interviews
<jcastro> not very TechCrunch. :p
<snap-l> jcastro: Do they allow you to download the videos?
<snap-l> Also, I think the quality comes from Spolsky, not Tech Crunch
<jcastro> snap-l: heh
<nixternal> i would have to admit, that interview started putting me to sleep
<jcastro> I have nothing better to do today
<jcastro> nixternal: what's going on mr. muppet?
<nixternal> me either, but still
<jcastro> hahaha, that reply you did was awesome btw.
<nixternal> same shit, different muppet.
<nixternal> yeah, shuttleworth replied via email that said 'takes one to know one' :p
<nixternal> at least he caught the humor
<snap-l> link?
<nixternal> snap-l: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654#comment-347009
<rick_h> howdy, snap-l ping
<snap-l> rick_h_: pong?
<rick_h_> snap-l: nvm, got the link updated
<rick_h_> had a bad .mp3 link in the day 1 recap
<snap-l> Ah, no fun
<rick_h_> gamerchick caught it and posted to us
<rick_h_> but used wrong twitter names so only found it via my lococast search I keep up
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Ah, and she posted it via the group, but on her status.net area
<snap-l> (identi.ca group)
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> anyway, 2 hrs of material from this morning
<rick_h_> will be trying to upload some files, need to make room in dropbox :/
<rick_h_> or just break down and pay, 2gb is full and 2gb more files right now
<snap-l> Oh geeez
<rick_h_> well, 3 tracks + render
<snap-l> Two hours of material? :)
<rick_h_> so 4 files per bit
<rick_h_> yea, 1.3/4 of the from python import podcast guys
<rick_h_> and a joint interview with a guy that bus rode to pycon from seattle
<snap-l> Ye gads. :)
<rick_h_> copying over to linux now
 * snap-l wonders if he should just give rick_h_ ssh access to his linode instance. ;)
<rick_h_> upgrading dropbox now so will be getting a big influx of files soon
<snap-l> I wonder how many of those count against my quota
<rick_h_> none, it's my folder I share withyou
<snap-l> I might have to upgrade to put them back. ;)
<rick_h_> at least shouldn't
<snap-l> says I'm using 1.6GB of 2.25
<rick_h_> well let's see
<rick_h_> podcast folder is now 4gb big
<snap-l> Yeah, worst case we'll figure something else out
<rick_h_> yea, I think it'll be fine
<rick_h_> it's my  folder I share and shouldn't count against your numbers
<rick_h_> basically check it out
<rick_h_> how big is your dropbox folder according to du -h?
<snap-l> What's a .reapeaks file?
<rick_h_> it's the reaper files
<rick_h_> just copied directories
<snap-l> 1.7GB
<rick_h_> so didn't pull out the reaper project bits
<snap-l> OK, save for i can't use those files. ;)
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> feel free to remove them
<snap-l> I'm converting the old wav files to flac files
<rick_h_> is your quota usage changing right now?
<snap-l> yep
<rick_h_> wth
<snap-l> I'm charged for shared items
<snap-l> so either I upgrade, or compress
<snap-l> and I'm chosing to compress for now. ;)
<rick_h_> crap
<rick_h_> https://www.dropbox.com/help/59
<rick_h_> sorry, let me move everything else out
<snap-l> no, that's OK
<snap-l> Ah, OK, that works too
<rick_h_> ok, moved veerything but pycon out into my locla machine
<rick_h_> I'll work on getting the files we want to save up to s3
<rick_h_> and won't have anything new to upload for a bit,so we'll work on it
<snap-l> No worries.
<snap-l> Save for my files that were uploading are in flux
<snap-l> but that should be OK. They're only .flac files
<rick_h_> ok, well, we'll work it out.
<jrwren> jcastro: thanks for the founder stoires video
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping, files are done it looks like
<rick_h_> we'll have to get together sometime to figure out what to do with them
<rick_h_> but if you get a sec, see if they came over ok and such
<snap-l> rick_h_: I just upgraded my quota for Dropbox
<snap-l> Managed to hit 103%
<snap-l> So still downloading files. ;)
<snap-l> Also took the time to pay for Ubuntu One as well
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, well I'll reimburse you for the current stuff then
<rick_h_> sorry about that, figured we'd be good once I cleaned out the rest of the stuff
<nixternal> is there something like dropbox that i could point to my own file server for sharing and what not? i have never researched that. besides a freakin' file server, sftp,ssh,scp stuff :)
<nixternal> derr, owncloud...totally forgot about that
<rick_h_> google sparkleshare
<rick_h_> it's supposed to be the OSS dropbox
<rick_h_> but haven't tried it out yet
<rick_h_> and not sure about it since it's using git behind the scenes last time I looked
<rick_h_> I need to just check out mounting s3/fuse stuff but ugh seems hackick
<nixternal> yeah, i was doing some fuse crap in the past, very hackish. i have a shit ton of storage on my web server, but i don't own that server, it is a shared host. which i think dreamhost might have something i am looking for now that i think about it
<nixternal> GNU/Mono
<nixternal> Coming soon!
<nixternal> forget sparkleshare. mono is the devil, microsoft will sue me, according to shitzalot or whatever his name is
<rick_h_> lol, well nvm then
<rick_h_> unison is next best thing
<rick_h_> or I just backuppc my crap but that's not a good sync solutoin
<nixternal> always been afraid to try stuff from a website that has a 1990s style guestbook they want you to sign before downloading :p
<snap-l> rick_h_: No problem.
<snap-l> Don't worry about it. :)
<shortcircuit> rick_h_: Sound input is apparently a bitch on Linux?
<shortcircuit> (or so says brousch, who directs me to you. ;) )
<brousch> rick_h_: i need a rick's rant about your linux audio woes so i have a place to point people
<shortcircuit> I haven't done any latency-sensitive stuff, but I haven't had major problems with it, either.
<shortcircuit> Well, outside putting myself in a position where I had to learn a lot about PulseAudio to know what I was doing on Gentoo...
<shortcircuit> Ok, admittedly, I'm still trying to get SIP working, but I'm (at this point) suspecting that that problem is with my switch, not any of the three hosts I've tried it on.
<brousch> shortcircuit: we'll have to bring up again a week after he gets done with pycon. he's getting his pyth-on now, and it will take  a week to fix all the crap at work that broke while he was gone ;)
 * shortcircuit nods
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.ourmedia.org/channels/items/music-manumit-podcast-creative-commons-110307
<shortcircuit> But, damn, I'm excited about Geek Group.
<snap-l> Good interview with Eric Steuer
<snap-l> rick_h_: Audio is a little scattershot on the fpip
<snap-l> it goes all over the place for levels
<snap-l> Going to try a dynaic range compressor to see what happens.
<Dekk-lappy> anyone good with wifi issues?
<rick_h_> snap-l: ugh, was afraid of that
<rick_h_> had a hard time getting people to talk into the mics
<rick_h_> kept turning around to look at people behind/next to them
<rick_h_> I kept trying to tweak the levels on the maudio as I watched, but was hard
<rick_h_> we had 6 people, two at each mic
<rick_h_> but back a little bit
<Arkadiuz> great
<rick_h_> shortcircuit: my audio woes are getting more than 2 tracks of input
<rick_h_> not a problem with the audio itself, but I have an 8input device that won't work in linux
<brousch> you need a bunch of lapel mics
<rick_h_> well, I can see what I can do to the originals, maybe I can make something better from those
<rick_h_> it's gamerchick02 my hero
<gamerchick02> i am?
 * gamerchick02 is flattered
<rick_h_> totally didn't catch the broken link
<gamerchick02> ah. well, it's downloaded fine now! :)
<gamerchick02> twitter/identi.ca is awesome that way.
<gamerchick02> not sure if i got the usernames right, but hey. heh. glad i could help.
<snap-l> Usernames were off, I'm afraid
<rick_h_> I have a standard search for lococast
<gamerchick02> sorry bout that. i was going on memory... :-/
<rick_h_> so got it
<gamerchick02> sweet
<gamerchick02> there's a lococast group on identi.ca, i think too.
<snap-l> and I pay attention to tie identi.ca group
<gamerchick02> :)
<snap-l> Even though rick_h_ has abandoned freedom. ;)
<gamerchick02> heh. i use both, and they both serve a purpose.
<gamerchick02> random crafy note: http://gamerchick02.tumblr.com/post/3840206995/also-posted-on-my-deviantart-here-and-here-i i was busy this afternoon. :)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: coolness
<gamerchick02> thanks.
<gamerchick02> i'm happy the way they turned out. :)
<gamerchick02> off for a movie. see everyone tomorrow~
<gamerchick02> ! i mean. blargh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-05
<snap-l> Hello, everyone
<brousch> yo
<jjesse> yo yo
<snap-l> I guess we can call the meeting to order
<snap-l> hello, order.
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/349/detail/
<snap-l> First off, I want to thank everyone who participated in the jam yesterday
<snap-l> whether it was in spirit or in person. :)
<greg-g> w00t!
<snap-l> Overall it was interesting to see how Precise is shaping up
<snap-l> though I'm thinking it has some issues with NVidia cards still
<snap-l> I know brousch filed a few bugs
<brousch> kubuntu 12.04 looked solid
<brousch> yeah, little things
<snap-l> I have it installed on the Asus Eee 701, which was a feat.
<brousch> impressive
<brousch> i seem to have taken one of your chocolat ebeers
<snap-l> That's fine. :)
<snap-l> I have some of your porter and ale. :)
<snap-l> 's all good. :)
<snap-l> They were there for sharing. :)
<brousch> thanks for hosting. and thank jodee for putting up with us
<brousch> it worked out really well for me
<brousch> hey, there's the man
<snap-l> Yeah, I think it worked out really well
<gib> What is the topic for tonight?  Penguicon, Ubuntu 12.04 . . .
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/349/detail/
<snap-l> Just doing a quick recap of the jam
<brousch> records were set
<snap-l> Heh
<gib> Cool. I saw no problem with Ubuntu 12.04.  Hey why don't they call it something easy to type like U1204?
<snap-l> gib: Having trouble with Pangolin? :)
<brousch> i'm looking forward to it
<brousch> a good lts is such a beautiful thing
<gib> No problems at all with U-P (Ubuntu Pangolin).
<snap-l> OK, cool
<gib> What kind of records?  Count of issues or what?
<snap-l> Anything else to talk about re: the GJ?
<gib> What is the GJ?
<snap-l> gib: brousch was being facetious that he recorded two bugs instead of one.
<snap-l> Global Jam
<brousch> it was a personal record
<gib> Ah, and I reported noen - so we are even with prior records.  Sorry.
<gib> None.
<snap-l> OK, without further ado, let's talk about Penguicon and the release party.
<gib> Well I love the personal record thing.  Maybe we can post like a tribute.  You know: you can do it too. For everyone to see.
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/KyG7STPQzBHh6itrqwre/
<gib> Did we get a clear understanding of the location in the hotel?
<snap-l> gib: That's what I pasted.
<snap-l> This is a note from the Penguicon Hotel Liaison
<snap-l> I'm not sure how big the hotel bar is at the Dearborn Hyatt
<gib> Sounds like we need to do a field trip. Date, time?
<snap-l> My assumption is that anyone who spends their free time collecting coins also drinks heavily.
<snap-l> (Yes, I'm somewhat kidding)
<snap-l> So my question would be do we want to take up Penguicon's offer?
<snap-l> I don't think we have time to take a field trip, unfortunately.
<snap-l> My understanding is that time is of the essence.
<brousch> take a sick day
<snap-l> (my other question would be who all is planning on attending?)
<gib> So, going to a bar to pay for derinks when we have purchased a all weekend long drinks free ticket to Penguicon is, umm, soo geeky.
<snap-l> gib: Well, I don't think the free drink are out on Friday
<gib> I plan to attend.  So can we meet in a roo party or con suite?
<snap-l> and I see it as an act of good faith that Penguicon is thinking about us
<snap-l> gib: I'd rather not take over the con suite
<snap-l> that would be rude
<gib> room party is a cool idea. U room for Ubuntu.
<snap-l> If someone else is willing to host the room, I'd be OK with it
<snap-l> They're $99 for a night
<gib> Figure the cost of getting a room party together.  A bit expensive. But then we could give out those CDs all night.
<snap-l> Well, let's focus on the offer from Penguicon for now.
<gib> So if we kick in for the $99 ten bring in some beer how many people do we need to break even?
<gib> Small bar: limited number of people.  an't decide until we now the capacity.
<gib> If we fit 10 people then I'm okay with it.
<gib> Over ten then it would be better in my opinion to get a room and split the cost of room and beer.
<snap-l> Usually we have around 15-20 people
<gib> Maybe we can pull in some other groups.  MUG, MDLUG, SEMCO, Wash Lug ...
<snap-l> Usually membmers of those groups show up to the release party anyway.
<gib> OPtimistacally, 20 people would be easy to put up a cash donation jar.
<gib> Just need someone to collect cash and watch the beer.
<snap-l> Actually, IIRC, that's illegal in MI.
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> Liquor control commision and such
<gib> So, then we do a pay ahead to get in system.
<snap-l> I'm thinking the best way would be to contact the Hotel Liaison and get some more information about their proposal
<snap-l> I'd rather not get into having a room party, as that gets into liability and such
<gib> Yes, getting more info would make the decision easier.
<snap-l> if you want to have a room party for each of the groups to get together on Saturday, that would be great
<gib> Okay, how about finding someone else who is already hosting a party?
<gib> Wow about a non-alcoholic party?
<snap-l> OK, I'll contact Jer to get some more details about their proposal
<snap-l> gib: Perhaps you could check with the other groups to see if they're already having something represented at Penguicon
<snap-l> I think the GLLUG had parties in the past
<snap-l> Not sure who to contact about that.
<gib> Okay.  I'm headed to bed now.   See you guys later - bye bye.
<snap-l> Laterness.
<snap-l> Hokay then
<snap-l> Anyone else have any opinions about the release party?
<brousch> rock on
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks. (whithering look)
<snap-l> Problem is most of the people who do the release party aren't IRC regulars.
<snap-l> And while I don't mind the idea of a room party, I'd rather not open up the group to that kind of liability / mess.
<brousch> would get cramped
<snap-l> And I'm not about to rush the consuite with an "official" party.
<snap-l> they have enough problems. :)
<brousch> what is the consuite?
<snap-l> Essentially it's a suite that they put food and drink in
<snap-l> generally it's crowded
<brousch> sounds like a good place
<snap-l> brousch: (whithering look)
<snap-l> OK, anything else we need to discuss tonight?
<brousch> oops
<snap-l> OK, if there's nothing else, we can call this meeting finished.
<snap-l> finished, get me a drink.
<snap-l> Thanks, everyone!
<brousch> thanks you sir!
<rick_h_> did I miss anything?
<rick_h_> wtf is this github thing
<snap-l> rick_h_: ?
<rick_h_> twitter is all over with rails, insecure defaults, github investigations, wtf
<snap-l> rick_h_: Zed Shaw, or someone else?
<rick_h_> I've got to trace it I guess. It's kind of all over the map. Just got home after most of the day afk
<rick_h_> ah, http://jtimberman.housepub.org/blog/2012/03/04/github-is-classy/
<snap-l> What the fuck?
<rick_h_> yea, still reading up on wtf went down
<snap-l> Apparently somoene used github to make a point about RoR
<rick_h_> right, and Github nuked him and people got cranky on both sides
<Blazeix> oh, yeah, hackernews went crazy about it
<Blazeix> it's the end of github as we know it
<snap-l> I don't see what the big deal is.
<snap-l> They activated the account again
<snap-l> everyone == happy
<snap-l> I swear the net will get their knickers bunched up over things that don't affect them at all
<snap-l> I'd be more worried that Rails has insane defaults.
<Blazeix> i suspect they activated the account only after everyone freaked out
<Blazeix> not that i'm saying github was in the wrong here
<snap-l> I saw something similar that Chris of Pramid posted about strings in Python doing crazy things with iterators.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: what did everyone get cranky about?
<rick_h_> I've only hita couple of things and not seeing where everyone disagrees with github?
<Blazeix> they got cranky that github froze the guy's account and then called his demo 'an attack' in their followup blog post
<Blazeix> http://chrisacky.posterous.com/github-you-have-let-us-all-down
<Blazeix> snap-l: what's up with python strings?
<snap-l> Python 3 changes how iter is used.
<rick_h_> yea, strings in py3 no longer have __iter__ methods I think
<rick_h_> I've never used that method to split str from list, but I guess it's common
 * snap-l is looking for the original article
<rick_h_> http://plope.com/Members/chrism/python_2_vs_python_3_str_iter
<snap-l> http://plope.com/Members/chrism/python_2_vs_python_3_str_iter
<snap-l> fuck, too quick
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> a-yup
<snap-l> Good morning
<nullspace> snap-l: morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning its a very cool -8 today
<brousch> brisk!
<brousch> hm, water heater guy is coming out already
<nullspace> so any news on what might break in 12.04 if I upgrade?
<snap-l> nullspace: Well, do you have an NVidia card?
<snap-l> I noticed some strange artifacting on one of my older machines
<brousch> damn updated codes
<brousch> always cost me money
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> brousch: Which one? :)
<brousch> chimney size, gas shut offs, water pressure
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, lovely.
<snap-l> Yeah, what starts off as one fix turns into 5 updates
<snap-l> Thought you might have been talking about discount codes being the death of you.
<snap-l> Like, oh, I  dunno.....
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430233510
 * snap-l is a sucker
<brousch> this plumber has an ipad, but no app for estimating and quoting. basically it just has PDFs of all their prices and he has to page through them
<brousch> then types it into a spreadsheet app
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Talk about making more work for himself.
<brousch> when he pulled out the ipad i was impressed, then i saw how they were using it
<nullspace> snap-l: ever heard of  "the synthetic dream foundation" ? electro industrial band, german based remind me of FLA and skinny puppy
<snap-l> nullspace: Not familiar with them
<snap-l> What's a good album to start with?
<snap-l> I'm only seeing Tendrils of Pretty on Amazon
<nullspace> behind the gates of horn and ivory seems pretty solid
<snap-l> Their website is pretty impenetrable. :)
<nullspace> oh, ouch
<nullspace> there site sucks
<nullspace> *their
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Gates-Horn-Ivory/dp/B001B83O12
<snap-l> I'm liking it
<snap-l> wishlisted. :)
<snap-l> nullspace: BTW: have you checked out the Club Metal Episodes on Open Metalcast?
<nullspace> I'v been keeping up on them
<snap-l> Awesome.
<nullspace> your doing an awesome job with your podcasts
<snap-l> Thank you.
<nullspace> I have no idea where you find all that music
<snap-l> Been finding a lot of really great industrial out there.
<snap-l> bandcamp and Jamendo. :)
<snap-l> Also, Synthematik is one of the online labels that I've been pillaging relentlessly. :)
<nullspace> nice
<snap-l> http://synthematik.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> They're my go-to place for industrial music
<snap-l> Have actually found some of their artists on FiXT as well.
<nullspace> yeah I hit up FiXT once in a while when I need new music or when a fav artists releases a new EP or album
<brousch> i spent $220 on tech books last year
<snap-l> brousch: amateur.
<brousch> i have read maybe 10% of them
<snap-l> brousch: amateur
<snap-l> I think I've read 1% of each of them. ;)
<Blazeix> anyone going to the Great Lakes Functional Programming Conference in May?
<snap-l> Blazeix: Hadn't heard about it until now
<Blazeix> my work is kind enough to send me there, so i'm going :)
<snap-l> http://glfpc.org/
<Blazeix> http://glfpc.org
<snap-l> kinx
<Blazeix> bah, beat me to it
<snap-l> er, no...
<snap-l> JINX
<Blazeix> they just started selling tickets, there's a link the their google groups page
<snap-l> They're really spartan about any info
<Blazeix> yeah, most of the info has been sent out via the detroit dev day email list
<snap-l> Huh, I missed those
<snap-l> http://singularityhub.com/2012/03/05/love-that-new-single-mathematical-equation-predicts-musics-hits-and-flops
<snap-l> http://oss.linn.co.uk/trac/wiki/SkweezyDs Linn just got a Gold Star from me
<brousch> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3666361
<brousch> python3 will cost billions to convert!
<brousch> BILLIONS
<greg-g> fuck ycombinator news
<greg-g> them and all their brogrammers
<snap-l> Yeah, I've given up on ycombinator
<brousch> wow
<brousch> i don't think i've seen greg-g cuss before
<snap-l> they're the sort of engineers that spend more time computing their car payment than doing anything useful
<snap-l> brousch: I've seen it. :)
<Blazeix> where do you guys go instead? I still use ycombinator pretty awesome
<Blazeix> please don't say reddit
<snap-l> reddit
<brousch> slashdot
<snap-l> but not the front page
<Blazeix> er, s/awesome/often/
<snap-l> also, rick_h_'s news service.
<snap-l> and twitter.
<Blazeix> ugh, the last thing i want to do is turn twitter into an rss reader
<snap-l> Twitter isn't an RSS reader
<snap-l> Twitter is ephemeral
<snap-l> reddit is ephemeral
<snap-l> ycombinator is ephemeral
<snap-l> Slashdot should be treated as ephemeral
<Blazeix> twitter is where I go when I want to know what my friends are doing.
<Blazeix> I haven't yet transitioned to the firehose model
<Blazeix> maybe I'll give slashdot another chance, but it has such ugly associations for me
<Blazeix> i suppose i should spend some time pruning away the categories i don't care about
<snap-l> Blazeix: It's not just you.
<snap-l> I've stopped using Slashdot in favor f using Reddit.
<snap-l> mostly because I use Slashdot via the RSS reader, and I haven't found a good way to turn off their stupid comments in RSS.
<snap-l> and if I use my user RSS feed, Google Reader takes forever to update, but the user feed is what gives me the links to the original source.
<snap-l> broken behavior.
<rick_h_> greg-g: one of them steal your lunch?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: thought about the functional conf, but don't htink so
<rick_h_> Blazeix: and yea, select reddit rss feeds + lots of twitter filtering
<snap-l> I can't do reddit with RSS
<snap-l> it's impossible.
<rick_h_> meh, I do a half dozen feeds there I think
<Blazeix> man, reddit is full of super-sensationalist crap, though
<Blazeix> especially /r/linux and /r/programming
<Blazeix> hackernews isn't free of that by any means, but it's better
<snap-l> Blazeix: reasone #1 why I don't use the RSS feeds on reddit
<greg-g> rick_h_: just my lunch money :(
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, requires title filters, but oh well
<brousch> water heater and code fixes came to almost exactly the same price as my tax return
<greg-g> oh, building codes
<snap-l> Ugh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-06
<_stink_> damn
<Dekkard> Sup
<rick_h_> woot
<Dekkard> L8rs
<jrwren> rick_h_: new gig is at Arbor Networks :)
<rick_h_>  jrwren ah, thought it didn't go through. Congrats!
<jrwren> thanks.
<jrwren> so far, so good.
<jrwren> day 1 was pretty sweet.
<rick_h_> awesome
<rick_h_> anyone know how to set a Makefile var but only if the shell var doesn't exist?
<snap-l> Apparently there's only 20 tickets for the GLFPC event
<snap-l> which makes sense since SRT isn't that big of a place. :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Starting to notice more bands releasing their stuff SA
<snap-l> Maybe there is something to the BY-NC-ND deprecation after all.
<Blazeix> i think there are only 20 tickets *left*. there are only 50 total, though...
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Open Metalcast Episode 42, where we tell you the answers to Life, The Universe, and Something Else: http://ur1.ca/8jeoq
<jrwren> rick_h_: didn't you buy a make book?
<jrwren> rick_h_: looks like make handles that by default.  http://sunsite.ualberta.ca/Documentation/Gnu/make-3.79/html_chapter/make_9.html#SEC90
<jrwren> rick_h_: or use ?=
<jrwren> http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Setting
<rick_h_> jrwren: yes
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah nice, I was google'ing around the wrong way
<rick_h_> I was trying to set the env var and have it persist in the file
<rick_h_> but yea, I can easily just add it to the make command when the builder runs it
<brousch> oooh, appinventor is back online
<brousch> http://appinventor.mit.edu/
<rick_h_> yea, cool stuff
<rick_h_> jrwren: thanks, that really helped me get this going
<tjagoda> Hallo
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/560/ let me know where I'm missing things pls :)
<tjagoda> Anybody have a good linux audiobook recommendation?
<tjagoda> Day trip to Toronto tomorrow
<tjagoda> so like 8 hours of driving time
<rick_h_> nixternal: fix your @#$# :P
<rick_h_> tjagoda: linux audiobook?
<tjagoda> "Any audiobook remotely covering topics related to open sourceyness and or linuks"
<rick_h_> hm, havne't listened to anything like that recently. Closest would be in the plex (google)
<snap-l> Yeah, the only ones that I'm aware of would be something like The Cathedral And The Bazaar or it's ilk
<snap-l> http://catb.org/~esr/writings/homesteading/
<snap-l> http://www.randomhouse.com/book/80240/the-hacker-ethic-by-pekka-himanen
<snap-l> tjagoda: Frankly, most of the books that I could see being turned into audio books about OSS are the touchy-feely OSS books
<snap-l> If you're looking for something a little more in-depth, you'd be better served with an eBook reader.
<snap-l> and some headphones. :)
<snap-l> And riding the train
<snap-l> eBooks aren't that great for driving
<snap-l> https://www.amazon.com/dp/1402516274/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=decafbadnet-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1402516274&adid=1QQV4A444M67PXXVJE6M&
<snap-l> Might I humbly recommend this as better listening material. :)
<snap-l> and yes, there's a referral code, so buy 20 of them.
<snap-l> Jesus, this recruiter is going to get banned soon.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.deadlyfredly.com/2012/03/dinocalypse-the-cover/
<brousch> what does unity/gnome use for viewing PDFs?
<snap-l> evince
<snap-l> Or at least it used to
<snap-l> I think it still does, but haven't checked. :)
<brousch> ran into a new fun PDF that ghostscript pukes on
<brousch> adobe reader, foxit reader, and okular render it fine
<brousch> evince looks good too
<krondor> people can do some funky things with PDFs, I once had one that was animated, which I was surprised even worked in okular.
<snap-l> Yeah, not sure how ghostscript handles layered PDFs
<brousch> snap-l: usually it's fine
<brousch> which is why i've been using it to convert nasty PDFs to nicer formats
<brousch> so now i need to look at what okular or evince use to do the rendering and see if i can adapt it to my needs
<krondor> brousch:  android dev; MIT App Inventor Open Beta http://bit.ly/wWu1Sg
<brousch> filed bugs against ghostscript PDF and mupdf. this should be fun
<brousch> krondor: yeah, i saw that this morning. haven't had a chance to look at it though :(
<brousch> ok, okular and evince both use poppler. now i'm getting somewhere  http://poppler.freedesktop.org/
<nixternal> nice
<snap-l> PHP 5.4 was released?
<krondor> yep
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, couple fancy bits. Mixins
<brousch> ug, having fun with the ghostscript bug http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=692903
<brousch> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/03/06/1837245/x-server-now-available-for-android
<greg-g> brousch: ugh, unhelpfull
<brousch> poppler does what i need, so if need-be i can replace ghostscript
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/HK3ER.jpg
<brousch> there. did fresh install of debian with an entirely different ghostscript version and it produced the same scrambled output
<snap-l> At least it's consistent.
<brousch> yeah, i found it because we have a windows program that uses gs8.4, which is many years old. and it still exists on gs9.04 today
<krondor> man its been a bit since I priced a new server, new proliantg8 has 24dimms? 768 GB/1U maximum ram. wow
<brousch> crazy
<krondor> that's 48GB/core if you do 16 core (2*8 core chips)
<snap-l> That's insane
<greg-g> in the membrane
<brousch> insane
<greg-g> IN THE BRAIN!
<snap-l> greg-g: Why do you trust anything related with bitcoin? :)
<greg-g> snap-l: do I?
<greg-g> I mean, dwolla is just a payment processor, like paypal or google or amazon.
<snap-l> Yeah, but they transfer stuff via bitcoin, afaict?
<greg-g> dwolla? no.
<greg-g> dwolla is just like paypal/amazon payments
<greg-g> just, better in that they don't charge as much
<greg-g> dwolla had a bitcoin exchange using dwolla's service (just as kickstarter uses amazon)
<greg-g> so, dwolla doesn't touch bitcoins, just other virtual money on servers (USD) ;)
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Bah, left a blooper in the latest OMC
<greg-g> yay bloopers!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-07
<Blazeix> whoa: http://jack-shepherd.co.uk/experiments/Fake-Mouse-Cursor/
<jrwren> Preparing to replace mysql-server-5.1 5.1.58-1ubuntu1 (using .../mysql-server-5.1_5.1.61-0ubuntu0.11.10.1_amd64.deb) ...
<jrwren> stuck in an endless apparmor loop :(
<jrwren> hrm... now hot to file that bug... *sigh*
<snap-l> jrwren: WHat's going on?
<jrwren> apparmor had rules for /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock instead of /run/mysqld/mysqld.sock
<jrwren> maybe apparmor stopped following symlinks?
<jrwren> /var/run is just a symlink to /run these days
<jrwren> and /run is tmpfs
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah! awesome, thinks for the intro
<greg-g> rick_h_: no problem :)
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_> snap-l: sorry, side email
<rick_h_> so what'd I miss today
<rick_h_> I've been so afk due to grandfather I'm going nuts
<rick_h_> rss feed over 500, work emails over 100...I'm just not used to these getting > 20 ah!
<snap-l> rick_h_: WEll, we've all switched to Linux Mint
<snap-l> rick_h_: The zombie apocalypse started
<rick_h_> damn, about time
<snap-l> rick_h_: and Duke Nukem Forever released
<snap-l> no relation
<rick_h_> wtf, google renames the market "play"?
<snap-l> That's like renaming Atari cartridges "tapes"
<rick_h_> what if I want something for work?
<snap-l> Work is play
<rick_h_> oh crap, apple event tomorrow?
<rick_h_> I need a squid proxy that blocks on apple days
<snap-l> ayep
<snap-l> rick_h_: Just take your network down
<greg-g> oh really? (re: apple event) add another to the grumble my social networks will be worthless list
<greg-g> I guess, I should use these days to weed the worthless people/feeds from my social sphere :)
<rick_h_> bah, stupid mysql differences causing migration failures :(
<brousch> rick_h_: use postgresql
<rick_h_> brousch: next up, but bookie runs on all three so working on getting the builds running on all three again
<rick_h_> should have put that in #bookie, sorry
<brousch> poop on the mysql users ;)
<rick_h_> the new setup takes a bit more work to get the whole drop, migrate, etc running right for tests
<snap-l> http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2012/03/06/3019/Rush-demands-Rush-Limbaugh-stop-using-their-music-on-his-show
<snap-l> <3
<jrwren> an excellent gesture.
<jrwren> but he was sued years ago for use of music on his show and it is covered by fair use.
<jrwren> likely the rush will be the same way
<jrwren> even still... awesome that rush is taking their stance.
<snap-l> So is Peter Gabriel
<snap-l> told JoDee that it'll be amazing if Limbaugh is on terrestrial radio in a month
<jrwren> oh hell no.
<jrwren> have you not paid attn?
<jrwren> this happens every 3-5 yrs.... its how rush keeps himself known.
<jrwren> MORE people will be tuning in because of htis.
<jrwren> it keeps his ratings up.
<snap-l> Yeah, but this is his Imus moment
<jrwren> you think so?
<snap-l> Yeah, I think so
<jrwren> damn, i forgot what happened to imus.
<jrwren> i hope you are right.
<snap-l> Nappy haired
<snap-l> Although I think CBS just wanted to get rid of him
<snap-l> He's apparently on ABC.
<snap-l> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/don-imus-rush-limbaugh-sandra-fluke_n_1321016.html?ref=politics&ir=Politics
<snap-l> Bwahahahahahaha
<jrwren> i actually feel a little bad for imus.
<jrwren> if most people weren't racist then imus would have gotten away with it... or else so many others who do the same thing, but are of other race would be held accountable.
<jrwren> rush on the ohter hand... he is just a ratings whore, or rating slut if you like, and deserves what he gets.
<snap-l> I think pepole were just looking for a reason to pull him off the air
<snap-l> (Imus)
<snap-l> I have no problem seeing Imus taking over for Art Bell's Coast to Coast.
<snap-l> He's got crazy crackpot down pat
<jrwren> never heard of it.
<snap-l> oh fuck
<snap-l> it's all UFOs and 9/11 conspiracies.
<jrwren> hahahahha
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3bld4lTG0 <- Most famous
<jrwren> zomg it must be true!
<jrwren> does he call them anunaki?
<jrwren> any relation to Lam ?
<snap-l> Gah, I fucking hate Zechariah Stichin
<jrwren> who dat?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin
<jrwren> ah right.
<jrwren> but its so much fun.
<jrwren> 12th planet.
<snap-l> Fuck Ancient Aliens.
<jrwren> anunaki & igigi at wor
<jrwren> don't you always watch ancient aliens on TV?
<snap-l> I have
<snap-l> and I want to punch the TV every single time
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i know it is true ;p
<jrwren> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=l+ron+hubbard&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-aurora#hl=en&client=firefox-aurora&hs=f4T&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=l+ron+hubbard+and+aleister+crowley&oq=l+ron+hubbard+and+al&aq=0&aqi=g1g-v2&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=2393l3478l0l4372l9l7l1l0l0l0l206l1003l0.6.1l8l0&gs_l=serp.3.0.0j0i15l2.2393l3478l0l4372l9l7l1l0l0l0l206l1003l0j6j1l8l0.llsin&pbx=
<jrwren> see!
<snap-l> wtf?
<jrwren> summoning lam?
<snap-l>  https://encrypted.google.com/
<jrwren> http://www.mt.net/~watcher/crowleyhubbard.html
<snap-l> Yeah, they're both crackpots
<jrwren> i read it on the internet, so it must be true
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> wtf, I'm about to leave and it's warmer here than santa clara
<snap-l> Welcome to Michigan
<snap-l> I really, really hate /opt
<rick_h_> ? why is this?
<snap-l> because /opt is under /
<snap-l> and / is a small partition
<rick_h_> oic
<snap-l> and it seems there's a lot of things that like to live in /opt
<snap-l> so, moved everything from /opt to /usr/local/opt and made it a symlink
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> jodee looks crazy https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/albums/5716764349446204721
<rick_h_> she must have found the other bug
<brousch> like she is plotting snap-l's death
<brousch> i like how the labelmaker is in front of her so it looks like she is debugging that
<snap-l> brousch: Hah
<brousch> snap-l: is she feeling better?
<snap-l> Yeah, she's better now
<snap-l> was a function of the pizza she ate.
<brousch> good
<snap-l> Apparently Super Tuesday showed that we're in for more campaigning
<snap-l> maybe they could duck-tape Romney and Santorum together
<brousch> and throw them in a volcano?
<snap-l> Well... ;)
<brousch> hm, then we're left with ron paul and newt. maybe that's not a good choice
<snap-l> Well, ROn Paul is going to go back to being an intependent.
<snap-l> count on it
<brousch> you think he will run as an independant when he doesn't get the repub nomination?
<snap-l> There's too many potheads out there for him not to keep running
<brousch> i used to be a libertarian
<snap-l> brousch: Put another way: do you know who the libertarians are running?
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> He has a better chance as a libertarian, frankly
<rick_h_> http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergonomics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/
<rick_h_> ok, I want to have a flight joystick as my input mechanism
<rick_h_> one step closer to being a 'rocket scientist'
<snap-l> more like space cadet. ;)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> Also, using a joystick in place of a mouse is a real PITA
<snap-l> Even if you just slide it around your desk
<snap-l> your wrist has more fine motor positioning than your arm
<rick_h_> but but it's soooo cool!
<rick_h_> "zoooooommmmmmmm, flying into the upper right corner terminal for textual entry!"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Which is why we've all switched from moving rocks with buttons on them
<rick_h_> I prefer to spin my ball-rock in place :P
<snap-l> Also, I think people underestimate how much they use their fingers to move a mouse.
<jrwren> good morning
<brousch> jrwren: howdy
<snap-l> jrwren: Good morning
<snap-l> I have the window open just a titch at home
<snap-l> Ahhhhhh
 * snap-l is looking forward to airing out this place.
<ColonelPanic001> anyone use StackExchange sites much?
<ColonelPanic001> There's about eleventy billion of them
<ColonelPanic001> and at least ten billion are at least somewhat of interest to me
<ColonelPanic001> hwo the hell am I supposed to check on them all?
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: quit your job
<ColonelPanic001> ironically, I was just glancing at the "Personal Productivity" site
<ColonelPanic001> 4 srs, though
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: don't
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: You can have it e-mail you a summary of tags that you care about
<brousch> rick_h_: you at pycon yet?
<snap-l> but frankly, unless you are seriously into a particular tag, you'll get flooded
<snap-l> ie: do you care about 140 python questions?
<ColonelPanic001> this just seems like a very dumb thing. 84 sites, many of them with huge overlap (programmers and stackoverflow, e.g.), and there's no way to get an aggregate?
<ColonelPanic001> right
<ColonelPanic001> so if there's ten sites of interest to me (and that's not hard to do), I have to check ten damn sites every time.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: What I do is put each of the sites that I care about into a bookmark folder, and then open all of them when I want to just see what's going on
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, that might be what I'll do
<snap-l> Tehy're not reddit. Don't treat them like that. :)
<ColonelPanic001> how dare you.
<ColonelPanic001> I would never betray my beloved reddit.
<rick_h_> brousch: no :( leave tomorrow afternoon
<rick_h_> getting things ready
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: so I hit a couple up, and use the rss feeds for the tags I'm interested in
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: yea, just start with some tags on stack overflow and grow from there
<ColonelPanic001> http://english.stackexchange.com/
<ColonelPanic001> I am going to waste far too much time there
<rick_h_> hah
<ColonelPanic001> http://history.stackexchange.com/
<ColonelPanic001> that one, too
<brousch> keep abreast of pycon https://pycon.disqus.com/
<rick_h_> widox: quit trying to make php work and just move to python :)
<widox> rick_h_: :D
<krondor> Bruce Schneier is going to be at Penguicon again?  That's pretty rad, I missed him last time.
 * rick_h_ google Bruce, doesn't recall
<ColonelPanic001> he is? Awesome
<ColonelPanic001> I dind't know that
<ColonelPanic001> think I'm just going to commute this year. It's maybe a 15 minute drive for me
<ColonelPanic001> as awesome as it is to stay at the con, I don't know that it's worth $200 to me
<widox> ColonelPanic001: sleep in your car
<ColonelPanic001> meh. 15 minutes away, I have a bed
<ColonelPanic001> the main downsides are: 1) drinking has to be minimal, 2) I can't just drop stuff off in the room, instead have to carry it around
<ColonelPanic001> but meh
<rick_h_> wtf, is the version of npm in precise really 0.2?!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Node is seriously lacking in packaging
<brousch> damnit. i really have ssh keys
<brousch> hate
<rick_h_> ?!?!?!
 * rick_h_ smacks brousch upside the head
<brousch> GIVE ME PASSWORDS OR GIVE ME DEATH
<rick_h_> ok, let me get my gun
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot, 16gb card for the handy1: 25hr of recording ready to go (wav format)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Very cool!
<jrwren> how can you hate ssh keys?
<jrwren> they are the single best authentication mechanism in the history of mankind :p
<jrwren> this is what I think of passwords
<jrwren> PasswordAuthentication no
<jrwren> its what my sshd_config thinks of passwords too.
<jrwren> :p
<rick_h_> jrwren: ftw!
<snap-l> jrwren: Me too
<brousch> with a ssh key, how do you login to a server from a machine you don't normally use?
<snap-l> brousch: Please restate your question in the form of a sensible question
<brousch> i have an android phone, an android tablet, a linux tablet, 2 laptops, 2 desktops and much more
<brousch> i can use the same password from them, or spend my life dealing with keys
<krondor> well you add each key when you first start using that device.  It's a one time process
<brousch> add each key on each server
<krondor> still you do it once and then you're good .. password you have to do something each time
<krondor> and when you're on that strangers box that key is a lot safer to use than your password + keylogger on that system.
<brousch> how do i use a key from a "strangers" box?
<krondor> what you don't have a usb key?  dropbox + lastpass with 1 time use password?  etc...
<brousch> see, so now i have to keep track of all these keys in dropbox or something
<krondor> you could even pre-generate that usb key so after you use it once you throw it away on the server in case they captured it or some crap
<brousch> and use my password to login to dropbox
<krondor> no use your lastpass 1 time use pass to login to dropbox
<krondor> or mfa + google authenticator or what not
<brousch> fml
<brousch> so, this complication is why i hate keys
<krondor> hey you want 1.) easy, 2.) secure, 3.) repeatable... pick any two
<brousch> i can keep a password in my head and use it from anywhere, or i can wrangle keys and passwords through annoying mechanisms
<rick_h_> passwords aren't for servers
<rick_h_> sorry, but comparing how you access dropbox vs a machine is a bit different
<brousch> i access a server from an ssh client. that could be putty from any one of our 25 windows machines
<rick_h_> and you don't have a network share you've got access to on those 25 machines?
<brousch> sure, if i want to login as another user so not everyone can access my share with keys
<snap-l> brousch: If youdon't want to go key-copying, put your key on a gateway machine, then
<rick_h_> or even just net use share:// with your login at connection time?
<snap-l> win: ssh gateway > server
<rick_h_> brousch: key == security + ease because you don't take easy password shortcuts
<brousch> snap-l: and if the gateway machine is down?
<snap-l> brousch: Make sure it doesn't go down, or have a backup machine
<snap-l> brousch: You don't have to make this complicated. :)
<brousch> it inherantly is complicated unless you login from the same machine all the time
<snap-l> So you set up several gateway machines, and rsync their credentials
<snap-l> not complicated.
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> Then copy the authed keys
<snap-l> to the server
<snap-l> brousch: Do you have LDAP set up?
<brousch> what it comes down to is i get incredibly annoyed when i can't login to my own thing with what is in my own head
<brousch> no ldap
<snap-l> Bah, was going to make an excellent point if you had LDAP set up. :)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> you guys keep a copy of all of your keys in dropbox?
<snap-l> brousch: I don't.
<snap-l> I just generate new keys on new hardware.
<brousch> how do you login to the server to copy the new key to it?
<snap-l> brousch: Well, if it isn't locked down, ssh-copy-id
<snap-l> otherwise, find a console
<snap-l> and once I have it set up, I disable Password logins
<krondor> depending on your volume of keys/servers larger places will script key addition and removal from groups of servers.  Makes it easy to retire potentially compromised keys etc...
<krondor> also some places use lighthouse servers (management server with access to other servers)
<krondor> you'd remote to the lighthouse, probably with two factor, then that has its key approved for all other ssh servers
<brousch> sounds like snap-l's gateway server
<brousch> that seems like it would be annoying for sftp
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, sftp would be a pain in the cock
<brousch> so it sounds like i need a better method of keeping track of keys and making them easily accessible to me
<snap-l> yes
<brousch> it seems insecure to copy and move them around. like having my password stored in plaintext in a file
<krondor> truecrypt/luks volume?
<krondor> anyone played with alternatives to bind recently for secure/speedy caching nameserver?
<brousch> i need a password to decrypt my encryption key files
<rick_h_> krondor: I think I've just used dnsmasq before
<rick_h_> krondor: but only for small local network stuff
<krondor> rick_h_:  thanks I'm looking at unbound, djdbns seems like it stalled.  Maybe bind is the right answer after all.
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, I mean bind's still used everywhere
<krondor> unbound has yaml (ish) config though :)
<rick_h_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/22750/best-way-to-set-up-dns-caching
<jrwren> my problem isn't with MY password adn account.
<jrwren> but without
<jrwren> PasswordAuthentication no
<jrwren> then my weakest point is the weakest password
<jrwren> dicitonary attack is easy.
<snap-l> Man, it is windy out there
<krondor> if you're not going PasswordAuthentication no at least use denyhosts or something similar
<jrwren> krondor: that is what I did before i used that.
<snap-l> BTW: CHC tonight. 8pm edition
<Blazeix> yeah, it's a good thing rick_h_ sent out that tweet, or I would have completely forgotten
<krondor> rick_h_:  thanks for the askubuntu link, that guy is asking for a pretty light setup though.  I'm not sure dnsmasq is up to the task of larger networks.
<jrwren> do ya'll just easy_install virtualenv as root?
<jrwren> and if ya'll don't know, then rick_h_ ^^ :)
<jrwren> for that matter, pip or easy_install?
<snap-l> I've installed virtualenv ad root, but each of the environments created are under my user
<snap-l> Don't use the Ubuntu virtualenv packages, though, as they're older than irt.
<snap-l> http://www.doughellmann.com/projects/virtualenvwrapper/ <- also awesome.
<snap-l> and just to prove me wrong, I have both virtualenv and virtualenvwrapper installed as packages
<snap-l> like a BOSS.
<jrwren> ok.
<jrwren> i just downloaded virtualenv.py and ran it, so no ropriv escalation required at all.
<jrwren> that worked well so far.
<rick_h_> jrwren: sudo apt-get install setuptools && sudo easy_install pip && sudo pip install virtualenv
<rick_h_> jrwren: so I keep a set of main tools as root so they're system-wide
<rick_h_> jrwren: like rst2pdf and some things, but http://paste.mitechie.com/show/561/ is system wide
<rick_h_> jrwren: (that's output of sudo pip freeze)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-08
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<snap-l> howdy
<rick_h_> snap-l: all_true = [key for key, val in some_dict.iteritems() if val]
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: a game of Go soon. I haven't forgotten.
<rick_h_> widox: dude!!!
<snap-l> busted!
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Definitely
<rick_h_> widox: where are you hacking on your vim config at?
<widox> uughhhh
<widox> home
<widox> no car tonight :(
<rick_h_> widox: ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> saw your vim commit on my rss feed and was like wtf!
<widox> :)
<widox> not as fun at my apt. although, my couch is more comfortable
<ColonelPanic001> okay, who's "demeris", or something like that?
<ColonelPanic001> someone just came up and was asking about CHC
<ColonelPanic001> said they told her about it.
<widox> ColonelPanic001: dunno
<ColonelPanic001> just curious
<widox> does that bring Downriver CHC up to 3 now?
<ColonelPanic001> tonight it does
<ColonelPanic001> good luck for her - we haven't been meeting for a month or so
<ColonelPanic001> just been busy, etc
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: THere was one person that showed up once at the MH CHC
<snap-l> Send them our way. :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: what do you use distribute for?
<jrwren> ooh, flake8 looks cool... its like lint for python
<brousch> Distribute is for installing modules
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, flake8 is a mix of pep8 and pyflakes
<rick_h_> both are packages to run lint/code sanity aginst your stuff
<rick_h_> jrwren: distribute is something of a middle between setup tools and packaging (in 3.3)
<rick_h_> ok, how can I force something to return a return code of 0
<rick_h_> I'm trying jshint bookie/static/js/bookie/* extensions/chrome_ext/chrome.js --jslint-reporter 1>jslint.out 2>/dev/null
<rick_h_> but returns a 1
<rick_h_> nvm, just || true it
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> bah, now ec2 adds a medium box
<rick_h_> after I've got one year paid plans for the two smalls :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: Lovely. :)
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning from the NOrth
<snap-l> Hello from down-state. :)
<jrwren> morning!
<jrwren> ooh... medium eh?  I need to check out hte specs.
<snap-l> Had a quickie power blip
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> solar flare or wind?
<snap-l> At least it isn't like Belleville, where a dip like that meant we had to boil water for the next few days.
<snap-l> brousch: I'm thinking wind
<snap-l> but it might be solar flare
<brousch> I went to Lansing yesterday for a Django meeting. There was also a group of developers from owosso there. that was unexpected
<brousch> they were from http://www.covenanteyes.com/about-covenant-eyes/careers/current-openings/
<jrwren> zomg, i should go to django meeting!
<brousch> you should?
<jrwren> yes, I'm doing django
<jrwren> reading a book right now
<jrwren> apress
<jrwren> "the definitive guide"
<jrwren> gotta become django guru ASAP
<snap-l> Whic definitive guide?
<jrwren> got it running in my venv no problem yesterday, without ever escalting priv.
<jrwren> so far, so good.
<snap-l> it's been through several revisions.
<brousch> jrwren: i can help a bit
<snap-l> jrwren: You shouldn't have to sudo to run python code. :)
<snap-l> This isn't Ruby.
<jrwren> snap-l: exactly!
<jrwren> rick said he does sudo to get his venv going.
<jrwren> but i was glad that I didn't even have to do that.
<jrwren> "The definitiive guide to Django web development done right" 2009
<jrwren> its fine so far.
<jrwren> i'm already seeing big diffrences from rails and even TG
<jrwren> but nothing terrible.
<brousch> sudo for venv?
<brousch> that doesn't make sense
<jrwren> to install it.
<brousch> ah, i actually just run it without installing it
<jrwren> every install method i found on web said "sudo easy_install virtualenv"
<jrwren> but I didn't awnt to do that.
<brousch> python3.2 ../Tools/virtualenv-1.7/virtualenv.py --distribute venv
<brousch> you just need to unzip it and then you can use it like that
<jrwren> that is pretty much what I did :)
<brousch> also how i use it on dreamhost
<rick_h_> jrwren: you can do it tons of ways, I just do that so that I've now got a system virtualenv command
<rick_h_> jrwren: you can download a single virtualenv.py file and add it to your personal bin dir or whatever you want
<rick_h_> tons of ways to do it actually
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> i was just looking for the way I wanted, and I didn't see it out there much.
<brousch> i do it that way becaue it's annoying to install it for all the versions of python. i use the same script for all versions
<rick_h_> ok, ups man has another 1.5hrs to get his butt here!
<rick_h_> where's gps tracking when you need it? "oh he's down the street! /me hops on bike"
<brousch> what essential thing did you order over the internet that you need before you flight this time?
<rick_h_> new keyboard I want to take with me
<rick_h_> made room in my carry on and everything
<rick_h_> thought I ordered overnight shipping, but ended up shipping two day...so ... waiting on the day of the flight
<rick_h_> guess "expidited overpriced shipping" !== 'overnight'
<brousch> you're bringing a whole keyboard?
<rick_h_> brousch: I will if it arrives
<brousch> did you pack your 30" monitor too?
<rick_h_> I'm going to be there a week
<Scott_firebeta> apple keyboard?
<rick_h_> no, but i did pack a folding laptop stand thingy
<rick_h_> and an external mouse
<rick_h_> and two power cords
<brousch> you could box up your desk and have it delivered to your room
<rick_h_> I think sprints would go better if I could do my standing desk
<rick_h_> definitely
<rick_h_> I'm going for a week, might as well be comfy :)
<brousch> i would lean towards portability
<rick_h_> I am, everything is carry on.
<rick_h_> laptop is only 12" very portable
<brousch> the less i have to lug around the better
<rick_h_> I'm bringing shorts just to make more room!
<brousch> going commando too?
<rick_h_> that would save some space...hmmmm
<brousch> sandals or water shoes?
<rick_h_> the big thing is socks, I like this big cushy socks and they take up a ton of space when you pack 7 days of them
<brousch> wear your vibram toefingers things
<rick_h_> I never got those, but might have to try that out I guess. Would leave a lot more space
<brousch> maybe it was greg-g
<rick_h_> jcastro:
<brousch> i love that you made room in your luggage for a keyboard at the expense of pants
<rick_h_> I have priorities, and have missed shorts season
<brousch> bring 1 shirt?
<rick_h_> no, but do plan on getting at least two there, so I didn't bring the full week's worth :)
<brousch> golf clubs?
<rick_h_> heh, nope
<ColonelPanic001> <3 club metal episodes
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Awesome. Glad you're enjoying them. :)
<ColonelPanic001> "Goals" by "Dark Clan" was awesome.
<ColonelPanic001> (I'm... a little behind)
<brousch> instrumentalcasts ftw
<snap-l> brousch: I have another one cooking
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l already has a surplus of karma from me for introducing me to Cloudkicker.
<ColonelPanic001> some of the best instrumental rock/metal evar
<snap-l> they take longer tha CLub Metal episodes to create because while there's a lot of instrumental metal, there's not a lot of really GOOD stuff. :)
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I can imagine
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, Ben is incredible.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm amazed you get as much together in CC licensed metal as you do, frankly
<snap-l> He's making waves in the regular community as well
<ColonelPanic001> I've browsed through Jamendo before, etc. It's slim pickings, imho
<ColonelPanic001> yeah? Good. He deserves it.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Thank you.
<ColonelPanic001> need to get a CK shirt or somthing.
<ColonelPanic001> just to toss some in the tip jar, so to speak
<snap-l> Yeah, I have two, plus the last two albums on disc.
<snap-l> Well, Beacons and Let yourself...
<greg-g> yeah, jcastro wore his fivefingers around town, I just ran in mine
<greg-g> brousch: ^
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.google.com/maps?saddr=SFO+Long+Term+Parking,+South+San+Francisco,+CA&daddr=5101+Great+America+Parkway,+Santa+Clara,+CA+95054+(Hyatt+Regency+Santa+Clara)&hl=en&ll=37.495018,-122.172089&spn=0.321969,0.615921&sll=37.418027,-121.966953&sspn=0.080575,0.15398&geocode=FfJKPgId0VC0-CH31yU1UIDyPA%3BFZDBOgId2Me6-CFysWFW4j0UQSkFdMgQzMmPgDGRHMf011ynkQ&oq=SFO&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&mra=ltm&t=m&z=11&
<rick_h_> crap, that's the short url google?!
<greg-g> rick_h_: yuck
<greg-g>  but yeah, getting around down there (South Bay area) is a pain without a car
<snap-l> I really need to give Ars Technica money
<greg-g> I like how google has indicated where that last bus goes, doesn't even follow the roads :)
<snap-l> they are the only new source in my RSS reader
<snap-l> Just read the Dwolla chargeback article they had. FInally made some sense.
<snap-l> Wow, Programming Perl 4th edition is out
<rick_h_> greg-g: is there any transit app for the area there I should check for better flow/scheduling?
<greg-g> Caldroid for the caltrain, not sure about Santa Clara :)
<rick_h_> ok
<brousch> rick_h_: you're missing the web summit?!
<brousch> trying kubuntu 12.04 on the nook color. i am a glutton for punishment
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, yes you are.
<snap-l> Maverick reaches EOL next month
<snap-l> Tuesday, April 10, 2012.
<snap-l> (That's 10.10, for the code-name unconscious)
<brousch> you are correct sir
<_stink_> good thing my mom bought a windows laptop to replace the maverick machine i gave her. :P
<snap-l> _stink_: Ugh
<snap-l> Oh shit.
<_stink_> it did come with a written agreement that i can no longer support her.
<snap-l> I'm not sure if my Dad is still on Maverick
<snap-l> I haven't unleashed Unity on them yet.
<snap-l> Here's hoping he's still on 10.04
<brousch> my dad has an older machine. unity did not go well
<brousch> next time i'm over there it will be getting kde
<greg-g> I'm confused by all of mhall's "contributing to Unity for non-developers"
<greg-g> they ALL involve some sort of action which is normally associated with development, eg: mhall119.com/?p=894
<brousch> greg-g: well step 1 is become a developer!
<brousch> ug. hitting a wall. boy woke me up at 5:15 this morning
<greg-g> brousch: I hear ya :)
<brousch> He was making weird noises so i went in. he told me "i was just thinking about star wars. do you think it has too many characters?"
<greg-g> awesome
<Blazeix> so young, and already making snide remarks about jarjar.
<brousch> he has not been exposed to 1-3 yet. i do not abuse my child
<snap-l> Too many characters?
<snap-l> Other than the fact that every alien that had a second of screen time now has a canonical back-story, I have no idea what he means.
<greg-g> does god, I mean george lucas, sign off on all of those back stories? implying that he read them all?
<brousch> i assume he has some say in the books
<snap-l> greg-g: I'm not entirely sure
<snap-l> I think some of that canon just sprung up, and nobody challenged it
<snap-l> I found one book that was written soon after Episode 4 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Splinter_of_the_Mind%27s_Eye
<brousch> there are a gazollion books. i think my wife owns them all
<brousch> the boba fett backstory is good
<snap-l> Yeah, but this one was pretty non-canonical
<snap-l> I really liked Tales of the Bounty Hunters
<brousch> and there's one where the droids were about to take over the galaxy
<snap-l> Haven't read too many of the rest, since they just seemed off to me.
<snap-l> Too much subterfuge and other assorted nonsense.
<snap-l> Reading the Wikipedia summaries for some of them just seemed like they were inventing shit just to say they could.
<snap-l> I don't know how to explain myself very well on this. ;)
<snap-l> The Jedi Academy felt like the end of The Who's Tommy to me
<snap-l> rick_h_: DId the keyboard show up?
<brousch> snap-l: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_Revolution
<snap-l> brousch: Will check that out
<snap-l> greg-g: I can tell you exactly what the Justice Department lawsuit for eBook price collusion means
<snap-l> greg-g: Authors still won't see shit in royalties. ;)
<mydogsnameisrudy> have a web site that requires me to run windoes and IE  ... grrr is virtualbox my best option?
<snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: Yes
<mydogsnameisrudy> bah give me something better
<mydogsnameisrudy> ;)
<snap-l> You could try running it in Wine
<mydogsnameisrudy> hmmmm
<snap-l> but if you value your time and your blood pressure, Virtualbox is your best be.
<snap-l> bet
<mydogsnameisrudy> not sure what they realy want .
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok
<mydogsnameisrudy> lol thats it
<mydogsnameisrudy> thx
<snap-l> np
<greg-g> mydogsnameisrudy: not using that website is the obvious best answer, and best for your health, and morality
<snap-l> greg-g: Let's not bring morality into this, shall we? :)
<snap-l> otherwise we'll be talking about how ethical it is to play a DVD, and I'm not up for that
<mydogsnameisrudy> its not an option must use the site
<greg-g> snap-l: fine fine :) another day ;)
<greg-g> mydogsnameisrudy: then yes, what snap-l said
<mydogsnameisrudy> yep thx again
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: but make sure you write them a nastygram
<Milyardo> Have you tried changing your User Agent String?
<mydogsnameisrudy> ya gained some but still will not let me in
<snap-l> Yeah, the user agent trick is pretty much dead, as far as I can tell
<mydogsnameisrudy> well that just sucks     reminded how much i hate windoes
<snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: Every day, mate.
<snap-l> greg-g: Health Insurance is best when you don't use it.
<snap-l> greg-g: Also, watch HSAs, as some will charge you a fee to keep your money if you don't contribute to them
<snap-l> I have one that will eventually empty out because of admin fees
<snap-l> I should just go on a Claritin pill party to finish it up
<snap-l> GET ME MY ALLERGY METH
<brousch> d00d. i think kubuntu 12.04 is actually booting
<snap-l> IT'S A MIRACLE!
<snap-l> Wait, you mean on the Nook, right?
<brousch> yeah
<snap-l> because that's pathetic otherwise.
<brousch> :P
<brousch> hm, maybe spoke too soon. the splash screen came up, not it's white
<brousch> now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-09
<greg-g> snap-l: my HSA is through my awesome credit union who actually respects its members :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Lucky you
<greg-g> snap-l: http://www.sffirecu.org/checking-savings/savings/health-savings-accounts
<_stink_> Milyardo: do you have the same nick on chatspike?
<rick_h_> howdy all from CA
<rick_h_> brousch: yep, missed hte web summit
<rick_h_> snap-l: not sure, not before I left. Going to have the wife send it out hopefully
<rick_h_> greg-g: survived the train trip
<rick_h_> the caltrain was kind of slick
<rick_h_> but packed!
<mydogsnameisrudy> Morning to ya Happy Friday
<snap-l> rick_h_: YOu are the most hardcore person I have ever met when it comes to keyboards, bar none. :)
<snap-l> Linus is awesome. That is all: http://ur1.ca/8leqw
<jrwren> snap-l: i really like squeezebox's random album feature.
<jrwren> i'm definitely an album listener.
<jrwren> so I just click play until an album that is acceptable comes up
<snap-l> jrwren: Me too
<snap-l> jrwren: Makes me wish every device had that
<snap-l> Getting a micro-blizzard here.
<jrwren> clear skies here.
<jrwren> beautiful clouds are sparse
<snap-l> Man, I am sneezing my head off
<_stink_> snap-l: NPR just informed me on the way to work that the allergy season is starting early.
<_stink_> i immediately thought of how fun that must be for you.
<brousch> snap-l: i left a 6"dia ball of dog fur someplace in your house. good luck finding it
<snap-l> brousch: har har
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, most of my other allergies are not as violent as dog
<snap-l> but something is in enough concentration to really make it fun
<snap-l> Yay, WRCJFM changed their stream after I asked them. They were roadcasting at 22KHz, and now it's at 44.1KHz.
<snap-l> Classical doesn't work sped up.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: \o/
<rick_h_> morning all
<snap-l> g'morning rick_h_
<rick_h_> ugggghhhhh
<snap-l> rick_h_: You do realize by having your keyboard shipped, you've doomed it to be in shipping limbo
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, what's funny is it was shipped from CA and I don't think far from my hotel
<brousch> it will arrive 5 minutes after you check out of the hotel
<rick_h_> the wife has it, evidently they told here it'd be $200 to overnight :/
<brousch> and you told her "make it so!"
<rick_h_> I think the ups store saw her as a sucker
<snap-l> rick_h_: How big is it?
<snap-l> USPS has a flat-rate Express box that handles 11" x 8-1/2" x 5-1/2"
<rick_h_> larger than your average keyboard
<rick_h_> meh, I'll live without
<snap-l> It's $40
<snap-l> But yeah, I think it's not worth it
<brousch> rick_h_: you drink with guido yet?
<rick_h_> but yea, been doing a lot of laptop keyboarding and will be done a TON this week so just worried about my wrists/etc
<rick_h_> brousch: heh no, but met up with the ohio crew last night
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> Your wrists should be fine
<brousch> brondsema is there somwhere. i think some others from SF too
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> I swear, sometimes developers really don't understand interface design.
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/91718157
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/91720110
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> obv, just make your UI with no useful icons or context but full it with tooltips.
<brousch> rick_h_: are you peeing your pants with excitement today?
<brousch> _stink_: that makes an excellent mobile UI
<jrwren> nodejs, because python has had asyncore for years.
<brousch> nodejs because you like to wear skinny jeans
<snap-l> http://www.chrispramas.com/2012/03/09/not-quite-a-talking-head/
<greg-g> snap-l: http://evan.status.net/notice/1355551
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, unfortunately he's right. :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I just remembered seeing that a while ago
<snap-l> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys/
<Blazeix> hah, the GLFPC organizer just sent out an email to the effect of "holy crap, we need a bigger location"
<jrwren> my jaw just dropped the first time i saw red squigglies in macvim/gvim http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2441
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, could see that one coming. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: pyflakes is awesome.
<jrwren> snap-l: pyflakesvim!
<snap-l> jrwren: I KNOW! :)
<rick_h_> brousch: naw, too busy to take a pee break :P
<rick_h_> jrwren: what's this nodejs/python async stuff?
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> I think someone got me something from my Amazon Wishlist.
<snap-l> If this was you, thank you. :)
<jrwren> nothing, i was teasing the nodejs fans.
<jrwren> because python has had asyncore for years and its ZOMG ASYNC NODEJS IS ASYNC! ZOMG WEB SCALE ASYNC!
<brousch> d0000ds http://streamti.me/
<brousch> pycon streaming
<snap-l> Wow, that's awesome.
<brousch> i think brondsema will be here at 6:20pm EST http://streamti.me/track-4
<brousch> i don't hear anything. do you?
<greg-g> two CC employees are helping with the pycon video team :)
<brousch> i assumed they just had Same Day Video
<brousch> but this streaming could be nice
<brousch> ah, the Flash player works well
<rick_h_> cool, didn't know they had any streaming
<Blazeix> brousch: see this? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-10
<snap-l> Good evening
<brousch> indeed
<rick_h_> party
<krondor> Brousch: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5haWRlLnVpIl0.
<krondor> I signed on  just to share that
<Blazeix> well now I feel bad
<brousch> Blazeix krondor: ohmy
<brousch> someone must read my blog
<brousch> wow, their twitter account started 1 day before my blog post
<brousch> thanks guys
<Milyardo> _stink_: Yes, I do have the same nick on chatspike.
<_stink_> Milyardo: gotcha.  i saw a wallop there with your nick and just wondered.
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning, good folk.
<jrwren> morn
<rick_h_> heh http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/qq5rd/frighteningly_ambitious_startup_ideas/
<rick_h_> the talk I think was a little better than the essay, but fun to see the comments coming out
<Milyardo> _stink_: Holy shit I am a wallop, who made that mistake
<Milyardo> I don't do anything but lurk there as much as I do here
<rick_h_> ok, mind blown by dabeaz talk on pypy
<rick_h_> I am officially humbled as a no nothing slack-wit of a programmer
<jrwren> pypy is SWEET
<jrwren> what talk?link plz.
<brousch> jrwren: i assume he means at pycon. the videos will be up soon after it's done
<jrwren> possibly very similar to this http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2012/02/understanding-rpython.html
<snap-l> rick_h_: If you're a slack-wit, apparently I'm a programming shoe-shiner.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's related to that link
<rick_h_> talk will be up, was good stuff
<rick_h_> snap-l: I shook mike bayer's hand! *squeeeeee*
<rick_h_> greg-g: caught up with Chris, will try to do dinner, seems cool. Thanks for the intro
<snap-l> rick_h_: I need to shake that hand so I can shake the hand that shook the hand of Mike Bayer. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> he melted people's brains in his talk, was awesome
<snap-l> Don't wash it
<rick_h_> remind me next CHC I've got a bunch of mediagoblin stickers to give out
<snap-l> Ah, very cool!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-11
<snap-l> BLERGH!
<brousch> blargh
<rick_h_> grugh
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll bet
<snap-l> Evening
<mydogsnameisrudy> heat wave
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-04
<snap-l> I don't have raring installed. Is that a Flash plugin problem?
<jsjgruber-x-r> snap-l, no, believe it or not flash circumvents it in other programs, but I don't think epiphany uses flash without taking special action. Epiphany crashes with or without flash installed.
<snap-l> Not sure then. I haven't touched Epiphany in years
<snap-l> Meeting in 10 minutes
<gamerchick02> i'm actually here. ahem.
<snap-l> Cool
<gamerchick02> irony: sitting in ubuntu-us-mi on the mac. hah
<waldo323> the mac is running ubuntu, right? ;)
<gamerchick02> no it is not. OSX.
<snap-l> one minute to meeting
<gamerchick02> the desktop runs Ubuntu.
<gamerchick02> :)
<snap-l> OK, let's get started
<waldo323> :)
<gamerchick02> cool
<snap-l> first off, welcome to the March meeting for Ubuntu US MI
<snap-l> We're nearing the end of the Ubuntu Global Jam
<snap-l> I'd like to thank everyone who participated
<snap-l> and remind folks that there's still time to participate if you haven't already. ;)
<snap-l> We had a pretty respectable turnout on some of the events
<gamerchick02> cool
<snap-l> Do you all think this was a worthwhile way to do this, or would you prefer something a little more in-person?
<gamerchick02> i think it's worthwhile. i was just away all weekend.
<snap-l> yeah, this weekend wasn't the greatest for me as far as participation
<snap-l> had family over on Saturday
<jjesse> helelo
<jjesse> hello :)
<snap-l> howdy jjesse
<waldo323> me too, does this meeting count as participating ? :)
<gamerchick02> hi jjesse
<snap-l> waldo323: No. ;)
<gamerchick02> i was up north in saginaw and taking care of Nile stuff and went shopping today (which now that i say it sounds like a lame excuse, whoops)
<snap-l> No worries.
<snap-l> I do think though that the online participation allows folks to take advantage of their weird windows of time
<gamerchick02> you are correct.
<snap-l> I also was pretty pleased with how well the Google Hangouts worked.
<waldo323> it is nice to have in person options when they are possible
<snap-l> Right, but I think the in-person stuff might be better for teh release parties
<snap-l> The jams, frankly, have been pretty poorly attended
<snap-l> though it does give people a place to head to instead of just blowing the whole thing off completely.
<snap-l> Anywho, it's something to think about for our next Jam, and for any events we might plan in the future
<snap-l> I think we'll have more acceptance after the UDS
<snap-l> at least we'll have a bit better roadmap
<snap-l> And remember: there's still time to participate. :)
<snap-l> Big thanks to jcastro for hanging out and talking about AskUbuntu
<snap-l> I got some extra reputation from his tips
<gamerchick02> that's sweet
<snap-l> If you haven't checked out askubuntu.com yet, I'd encourage you to check it out.
<snap-l> It's awesome.
<gamerchick02> it is.
<snap-l> Anything else on the jam?
<jjesse> did anyone get ubuntu touch to work?
<jjesse> mine (through MultRom) just boots to a blank screen
<snap-l> Yeah, Mark Thomas got it working, as did jcastro
<snap-l> They're using Nexus 7 devices.
<gamerchick02> i'm afraid to install it to my Nexus 7.
<jjesse> hrmm yeah on my Nexus 7 running MultiRom to boot both Android and Ubuntu just gets a blank screen
<snap-l> hm
<jjesse> i'll have to bug #ubuntu-touch some more
<snap-l> Yeah, it appears it can work. :)
<snap-l> DId anyone else play with touch over the weekned?
<gamerchick02> no but i probably should try to install it to my old android phone. has anyone tried it on an LG Optimus V?
<snap-l> I haven't.
<jjesse> there i a list of supported devices
<jjesse> and more are added all the time
<gamerchick02> i'll check it out. thanks.
<waldo323> just found instructions for my old phone
<gamerchick02> cool!
<waldo323> (htc incredible)
<snap-l> Anything else on touches or jams?
<snap-l> or touching jams?
<gamerchick02> my mom made jam and it's in our basement
<jjesse> is it good jam?  what flavor?  i like strawberry
<gamerchick02> strawberry and blueberry.
<jjesse> mmm
<gamerchick02> well, seperate jars for each.
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> OK, going to move along to the Release party
<snap-l> We have our location at Penguicon 2013.
<snap-l> Perhaps you might have heard of it. :)
<gamerchick02> never in my life. :-P
<jjesse> is there were a bunch of penguins get together?
<snap-l> Yes, dressed as people and other furry animals
<jjesse> awesome
<snap-l> The release party will be on Friday, from 7-8pm
<gamerchick02> cool
<snap-l> We'll be meeting in our usual spot of "the hotel bar"
<gamerchick02> beer + Linux = happy geeks
<snap-l> Exactly
<snap-l> And we'll celebrate the release of Raring Ringtail
<waldo323> it is a nice open area
<snap-l> waldo323: so I've heard.
<snap-l> I put in the request for some swag for the event
<snap-l> We'll see if it will be granted.
<gamerchick02> swagtastic
<snap-l> Only downside is you'll need to have at least a one-day ticket for Penguicon
<snap-l> But Penguicon is definitely an event that should not be missed
<snap-l> http://2013.penguicon.org/attending/registration/
<waldo323> the hotel block they currently have is 75% full
<waldo323> so if you plan on staying it would be a good idea to reserve your room soon
<gamerchick02> pardon me but *FLAIL*
<gamerchick02> that's like DOWN THE ROAD FROM MY APARTMENT
<gamerchick02> ahem
<waldo323> heh well i did include an if
<gamerchick02> i know but i just looked at the location and almost fell off the couch
<waldo323> oh yikes, be safe
<snap-l> I'd encourage everyone to attend
<gamerchick02> hah. i might be able to if i can get Friday off
<snap-l> It's going on all weekend
<snap-l> $50 for the weekend
<snap-l> Also, if you want a great audience for a talk, you'll want to talk with the programming folks to get yourself on the event list
<gamerchick02> that's not bad at all. how late does the event run each night?
<snap-l> It's one of the highlights of my convention year.
<snap-l> It runs all night
<gamerchick02> uhm, wow, ok. i'm more of a "morning person" you could say...
<snap-l> Sunday everyone runs out of gas, but it is litterally all night
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/albums/5736919828421690657?banner=pwa
<waldo323> and there are talks and events in the mornings too
<gamerchick02> would i miss a ton if i went home at midnight?
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/albums/5602143003899303841?banner=pwa
<waldo323> not a lot of programming typically happens after midnight you'd miss some of the parties and socializing that happens after that time
<snap-l> gamerchick02: You'd have to check the program
<snap-l> But yeah, most of it is just the parties and such
<gamerchick02> thanks i will
<snap-l> and the "after dark" stuff that isn't terribly minor friendly.
<waldo323> my first year i went home each night and didn't know i missed anything
<snap-l> Yeah, our first year we went home. Afterward we decided to just get a hotel room
<gamerchick02> nice.
<waldo323> i hope there will be some late night computer talks this year
<snap-l> and I'm cheap
<gamerchick02> well, it is literally down the road from me. 10 minutes.
<gamerchick02> i live kind of across from Oakland University ish
<waldo323> makes sense to sleep in your own bed in that case
<gamerchick02> yeah
<snap-l> Anywho, that's what's happening for the release party in this area
<snap-l> If you want to organize your own release party, please feel free
<snap-l> Post to the mailing list and get something organized
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking i'll try to make time for this. considering it's right down the street and all.
<snap-l> Great!
<rick_h_> evening
<snap-l> Hey rick_h_!
<snap-l> How was the trip?
<rick_h_> good, little black ice scare in KY but survived and made it down
<rick_h_> just got back from dinner, of course in the south everything is closed on a sunday night :/
<snap-l> So, how was the 7-11?
<waldo323> i found a patch of black ice on I75 somewhere between 11 and 14 mile today , glad you're safe rick_h_
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, chilis...almost as bad
<snap-l> Hey, nothing wrong with Chili's, unless they don't know what they're doing
<gamerchick02> chili's isn't too bad.
<snap-l> like the one at Oakland Mall
<rick_h_> waldo323: yea, there was a spot where the hwy did a bunch of intersections and overpasses and I guess the wind must go through there funny. Aroud 12 different cars in accidents in a 1mi stretch on both sides of the hwy
<gamerchick02> eeee. glad you're safe, rick_h_
<waldo323> oh wow
<rick_h_> felt the suv slide around on me a twice in there but not too bad
<rick_h_> but was stuck at 0mph for around 25min while they cleared things up and then of course you're looking like a hawk for any sort of black ice for the next 4hrs
<gamerchick02> i'm still glad you're ok. that's a scare.
<rick_h_> yea, all good. the new car got me down nice and safe. Was bummed to not cross 30mpg though
<rick_h_> and finding diesel is fun :)
<rick_h_> not as simple as you initially think
<gamerchick02> oh yeah you have the diesal VW yes?
<rick_h_> fortunately it's 750mi trip and got right aroud 725 miles on a tank
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yea, TDI ftw
<gamerchick02> i'd love a TDI anything, but not a lot of diesal chryslers to be found. they're making a diesal RAM 1500 but i don't really want a huge truck.
<rick_h_> they're adding a diesel jeep cherokee this fall
<rick_h_> was at the auto show and I thought about looking at it to compre
<rick_h_> but yea, not a lot out there
<gamerchick02> i don't work on the Cherokee so i didn't really know, whoops
<snap-l> Whoops. Got sidetracked. :)
<gamerchick02> we did, sorry
<snap-l> Anything else forthe meeting? If not, meeting adjourned. :)
<waldo323> :)
<gamerchick02> do you have a gavel?
<rick_h_> oh sorry, missed I jumped into the meeting, my bad
<snap-l> rick_h_: No worries. :)
<snap-l> we be jammin;
<gamerchick02> that's actually perfect because i need to go to bed. stupid need for more than 6 hours sleep. getting old kills you.
<snap-l> Yeah, tell me about it. ;)
<waldo323> i refuse to get old
<waldo323> not sure it is working though
<gamerchick02> i used to be able to go to bed at midnight and get up at 6:30 for 5 days, then sleep midnight to 9 on weekends and be fine. nowâ¦ not so much.
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e456eb334ee15f7a4f667684fccb77dcc6bba911?authuser=0&hl=en
<gamerchick02> well, it's either get old or get dead and i'd rather get old i guess.
<rick_h_droid> woot, bluetooth keyboard for the tablet
<rick_h_droid> but isn't not mechanical :(
<gamerchick02> aww
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Yeah, that' can be a bummer
<rick_h_droid> heh, now need a stand though. Not exactly ergo with it laying down on the table
<gamerchick02> ok, i'm going to read a bit then go to bed. sorry i didn't jam with everyone. i'll see you all this week after work, methinks. :)
<gamerchick02> lol rick_h_droid
<rick_h_droid> gamerchick night, have fun
<snap-l> Hanging out if anyone wants to join
<snap-l> Hope you all have a great night!
<snap-l> Morning
<brousch> how went the jamming?
<snap-l> It went OK. Not as much turnout as I would have hoped, but I think part of it is people are just busy on weekends
<snap-l> and being online was both a blessing and a curse
<snap-l> blessing: Allowed people to take advantage of weird windows of time throughout the weekend
<snap-l> curse: No focus
<snap-l> Also I think having jcastro's Q&A at 11am on a Saturday was too early for anyone to really participate.
<snap-l> And it could have been promoted better, though not sure exactly how
<snap-l> but overall I think it was good.
<snap-l> I think it'll take some getting used to for folks to really participate
<snap-l> and some more focused events
<snap-l> like "hey, we're really jamming in a hangout from X to Y"
<brousch> Sorry I had no time
<snap-l> brousch: That's OK.
<snap-l> Not complaining. People are just busy on the weekends. :)
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> My talk went well, though I think it was the least-attended talk at the conference
<snap-l> brousch: What talk were you opposite?
<snap-l> brousch: BTW: How was the conference?
<brousch> I was opposite 3 talks I wanted to see
<snap-l> That could be a problem. :)
<brousch> It definitely was
<brousch> Most of my friends went to other talks because they know they will see mine some other day
<brousch> The conference was good
<jrwren_> did you see Jeff McWherter's talk?
<brousch> I don't think so
<brousch> I assumed it was PHoneGap
<jrwren_> it might have been.
<jrwren_> i know they use that a lot
<jrwren_> he left early to have dinner with me that night :)
<jrwren_> i stole a grdevday speaker :)
<brousch> He missed the Github drinkup afterwards
<brousch> We were squashed into a tiny space, but free beer!
<brousch> So I hope you paid for his beer
<jrwren_> i didn't. he paid for mine, :)
<jrwren_> he has a 1yo, I think he was more running home to see her.
<jrwren_> how was the drunkup? lots of githubbers there?
<brousch> No. We only have one githubber in GR now
<brousch> By Githubber, i mean an employee of GitHub
<jrwren_> right
<jrwren_> only one now? did someone move?
<jrwren_> i think I only ever knew of one.
<jrwren_> otehr MI peeps were port huron area IIRC
<jrwren_> and somewhere south of GR, like Kzoo
<jrwren_> something like that, but I don't remember
<brousch> A company in Holland got bought by GitHub a year or so ago so we had more. Some of them moved to California
<jrwren_> Holland is what I was thinking of (south of GR) :)
<brousch> That company had people in holland and South Bend, IN
<brousch> Well, it's SW of GR, on The LAke
<brousch> greg-g: I'm tired of your bicycling-induced heavy breathing causing global warming. Drive a car! http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/04/1238258/state-rep-says-biking-is-not-earth-friendly-because-breathing-produces-co2
<snap-l> I think we need a Mythbusters episode on this
<snap-l> I foresee several trips to the junkyard, and special guest appearance by Lance Armstrong
<snap-l> Then at the end they can detonate both the car and Lance Armstrong
<snap-l> and thus global warming is saved.
<brousch> Or they could do it in one of the emissions test labs
<brousch> Have man and machine go for 24 hours in there and see who produces more waste/mile
<greg-g> brousch: wow, thanks for my daily dose of bike craziness
<snap-l> I hope I hear from Elite Keyboards today.
<snap-l> I'll be exceptionally angry if I don't.
<brousch> :D
<rick_h_> greg-g: can you post your laptop experience to https://plus.google.com/115383915302515672680/posts/Y9oANWcDGg8 ?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I posted as well
<snap-l> My experience: You'll eventually buy a Thinkpad. The question is how many machines will you buy in the interim.ï»¿
<rick_h_> snap-l: thanks
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> yea, the first comment hosed on thinkpads and I'm having a hard time not going "BS!"
<snap-l> Again, you'll eventually buy Thinkpad. The question is when. ;)
<greg-g> rick_h_: done
<greg-g> rick_h_: clincher: "Thinkpads are the computers you buy when you want something that is strong and durable. Apple is what you buy when you want pretty looking hardware (ignoring software differences). Dells are this stupid in between that doesn't work for me.ï»¿"
<rick_h_> greg-g: thank you much
<rick_h_> co-worker there so I don't want him to get a sucky machine
<snap-l> APparently the phishers are strong today
<greg-g> who is that , btw?
<rick_h_> greg-g: he's on a launchpad squad working on cloud stuff now
<rick_h_> so guess cloud engineering squad
<greg-g> jrwren_: I'm not sold on the purely calorie burning argument for walking desks. But after this Berkeley prof presented here at WMF (she's the author of "The Chair") I'm sold on the general health issues of sitting all day, especially in the posture we are told is "correct".
<greg-g> rick_h_: gotcha
<greg-g> http://www.amazon.com/The-Chair-Rethinking-Culture-Design/dp/0393319555
<rick_h_> greg-g: interesting
<snap-l> So what's the correct position?
<greg-g> well, one of two
<snap-l> first person to say "missionary" gets a boot to the hed.
<greg-g> lemme find some pictures
<snap-l> Also a little bummed. Found out Logitech laid off one of the royal smart people on the Squeezebox project
<greg-g> this one is considered to be just about up there: http://www.focaluprightfurniture.com/video-demos/
<snap-l> it's a matter of time until mysqueezebox.com goes poof.
<greg-g> one thing Galen stessed: there is no good ONE position, our bodies are made to move, so, change it up through out the day
<snap-l> Yeah, that's one thing the ergo chairs don't handle very well
<greg-g> well, the point is one chair can't do it all
<greg-g> that chair is pretty good, it pivots around
<greg-g> you can shimmy your tooshie
<snap-l> Wonder if the ball chair is helping any
<snap-l> or if that's just something they can glom onto
<snap-l> It makes sense that sitting all day can't be all that good for you
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> It there's probably some nuances that get lost in the re-telling
<snap-l> s/^It/But
<snap-l> Usually how scientific research works
<snap-l> Yes, this is mostly true, but...
<snap-l> and the but contains all of the nuance that doesn't make it out past the papers
<greg-g> which is why most of science journalism sucks
<greg-g> "HEADLINE THAT TOTALLY MISREPRESENTS THE POINT OF A VERY SPECIFIC/NUANCED PAPER"
<snap-l> Find that a lot in health journalism
<greg-g> "DOCTORS SAY TO DRINK 3 GLASSES OF WINE A DAY FOR BETTER HEALTH"
<snap-l> "science says eating bacon improves health"
<greg-g> #facepalm
<snap-l> No, science says bacon has a protein that if synthesized properly has been shown in one uncontrolled study to...
<greg-g> zactly
<greg-g> btw, xkcd today made me lol in the office
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Yeah, unless my client automatically checks, I'm never checking the sig
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> thank you, mutt
<snap-l> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ocsFgnObcrw/UTSjOs16HjI/AAAAAAAACsA/_b9YZSsTrss/s667/potato.jpg
<snap-l> Sadly I think I need those signs
<greg-g> rick_h_: we won! (g+ thinkin discussion)
<jrwren_> greg-g: i miss my standing desk :)
<greg-g> jrwren_: yeah, I want to try one out
<jrwren_> snap-l: I totally agree.
<jrwren_> if there is anything I know, is that health professionals are as trust worthy as lawyers.
<jrwren_> the best thing is to do your own research adn come to your own conclusions.
<jrwren_> health professionals are the idiots that told us no red meat and that fat intake is bad 20-30 yrs ago.
<jrwren_> now we have obesity epedemic and hearth disease is more prevelant.
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot!
<dzho> "health professionals" is a pretty broad brush
<dzho> lumping together CSPI with, say, the pediatrician's nurse is sort of like lumping together, oh, Bill Gates and the clerk at Best Buy
<dzho> and yet both of the former fall into the "health professionals" category, and the latter as IT professionals.
<jrwren_> its what I like about broad generalizations... usually tehy are false, in this case, I believe it true.
<dzho> oh, well, that's ok, then.
<rick_h_> whoa https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036776.html
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> I think they're too ambitious in their timeline
<snap-l> Though it's nice to see X support will still be around
<snap-l> Welcome to the divergence from GNOME
<snap-l> I'm not sure that's a bad thing overall
<jrwren_> could be great.
<jrwren_> wayland or whatever suffered from design by commitee IMO
<snap-l> I'm not sure this is immune
<jrwren_> single org at least
<jjesse> well it will be designed by canonical an then thrown over the wall as being developed in an open and transparent way
<jrwren_> likely with commercial requirements, not academic
<jrwren_> if this fails, so does canonicals industry direction
<snap-l> I hope they keep the spirit of X though, or it's not going to get adoption outside of Canonical
<snap-l> (client display anywhere with minimal effort)
<jrwren_> i don't like the reasoning
<snap-l> ?
<jrwren_> in fact, I claim it a lie.
<jrwren_> "users nowadays expect a more consistent and a more integrated user experience than what is possible to offer on top of the X window system"
<jrwren_> this is absolutely false.
<jrwren_> if that is their reasoning, they are stupid.
<snap-l> The X stack is not designed for performance, though
<jcastro> hwo can you know the reasoning? There's like 5 pages of specs and I am barely through the first 2!
<snap-l> and certainly not for 3D performance
<jrwren_> i really do not like tehat one sentence. yes, I'm bitching about one sentence.
<snap-l> Which is why compiz can be such a sore spot
<jrwren_> everything else in the Motivation section is great, and I love this.
<snap-l> I think the real message is clear: KDE won. ;)
<brousch> snap-l++
<snap-l> Now I'll have to fucking learn QT.
<jjesse> +1 to snap-l
<jjesse> just switch to Kubuntu and you will be happy
 * brousch high-fives jjesse
 * jjesse high-fives back brousch 
<snap-l> Screw that. I'm getting an abacus and a tree stump
<jcastro> snap-l: KDE didn't win, Qt won. :)
<snap-l> y'all are crazy.
<jrwren_> QT is awesome.
<jrwren_> google earth uses QT on all platforms.
<snap-l> I think it's more accurate to say GNOME lost their minds
<jrwren_> that is true too.
<jrwren_> gnome should have quit as soon as QT fixed their license :p
<snap-l> jrwren_: har har
<snap-l> I think the real problem is GNOME's pursut of some notional user who never learns how to use a computer
<snap-l> and wants one button in the middle of their screen that says "do what I mean, poorly"
<slestak> at the detriment of those who can use their machines
<slestak> s/at/to
<jcastro> meh, there's nothing you can do in GNOME2 that GNOME3 does better.
<jcastro> wait, did that come out right?
<snap-l> jcastro: No
<snap-l> jcastro: 3 years ago you would have verbally abused someone who said that. :)
<snap-l> In fact, I think you did. :)
<jcastro> let me rephrase
<snap-l> at Penguicon
<jcastro> GNOME3 does everything GNOME2 can do but better.
<jcastro> Just because you suck at learning new things doesn't mean it sucks. :p
<snap-l> Absolutely.
<snap-l> And because they feel I can't have nice things doesn't mean it sucks
<jrwren_> i like the way gtk# has approached the issue :)
<snap-l> I love configuring everything via gconf
<snap-l> It reminds me of this other operating system... I can't recall what it was, but they had this thing called a "registry"
<snap-l> but not like a registry where you would get things for your baby or newlyweds
<jcastro> Putting settings in keys/values is the only sane way to do it
<jcastro> how would you do it?
<snap-l> more like a place where you took a sledgehammer to a faberge egg to see what was inside.
<jcastro> If you say text files I will punch you
<snap-l> Well, we used to have control panels that had options for setting icon sizes and fonts
<brousch> In a lovely settings window easily accessibly from your program
<snap-l> now we have registry entries
<jcastro> you can make control panels
<snap-l> I can also make messes with faberge eggs
<jcastro> no you can't, you can't touch a faberge egg, they're priceless
<jcastro> and behind bulletproof glass
<jcastro> (I asked at the Faberge exhibit @ the DIA)
<jrwren_> gconf registry IS text files... just xml text files :p
<snap-l> jrwren_: +
<jcastro> that's all gone now though
<jrwren_> it is?
<jcastro> it's a key/value pair in gsettings or somesuch
<snap-l> and honestly the gconf thing is a red herring. It's not bad in aggregate. Just a pain to have to dive in there to change something that was simple to change before
<jcastro> or you could you know, just use your computer. :p
<snap-l> Like having to do about:config to turn off cookies
<jrwren_> they just need some nice cmdline kvp manipulation commands for changing them and it would be all good, a lot like old apple netinfo :p
<jcastro> desktops are to show apps and get out of the way, if you're sitting there all day messing with your desktop settings then seriously, get to work
<jrwren_> BUT I WANT A 100PX DIFFERENTIAL DECAY GRADIENT!!! NOT THE ONE IT CAME WITH!!!
<jcastro> (the lack of a font dialog is bs though, that should be in there."
<snap-l> jcastro: It's a papercut. most of the time I don't fiddle with my desktop, but if I want to make a change, I'd like to get in and get out
<jcastro> jrwren_: NO, YOU SUCK. 99 PIXELS! NOT 100!
<snap-l> It's like having to reset your car firmare to reset the presets on the radio
<jrwren_> jcastro: LOL
<jrwren_> but I'm really glad I can't change engine calibration settings on my ECM
<snap-l> jrwren_: And there's a nice port for changing them should you want to while driving
<jrwren_> ODB? oh HELL nO.
<jrwren_> gconf is WAY more complex than ODB :p
<snap-l> I'm not saying it should be easy to blitz my desktop environment, I'm saying there's certain fit and finish things that should be easier to do
<jrwren_> err OBD
<jrwren_> in all honestly, i don't care.
<snap-l> ie: move the seat, mirrors, radio presets, temperature controls
<jrwren_> i don't care about this at all.
<jrwren_> if I cared, I'd write software to do what I want :)
<brousch> jrwren_: Do you know Mark Stanislav?
<jrwren_> name sounds familiar
<jrwren_> i think i've met him, but its been years since we've talked
<brousch> Security guy at Networks Group
<brousch> OK. He gave a talk at GRDevDay and we're having him out next month for web security day at GRWebDev
<snap-l> Is he a prof at Eastern Michigan?
<brousch> snap-l: EMU is listed in his "Education" section on linkedin, but I assume he was a student
<snap-l> He apparently has a "rate my professor" page.
<brousch> Wait, adjunct lecturer 2009-2011
<snap-l> Yay new keyboard is on it's way.
<rick_h_>  snap-l yay
<snap-l> Yeah, saves me from making a separate Amazon order
<snap-l> for a Filco
<kingklick> whatsup everyone long time no talk....this is visualassassin, had to change name
<rick_h_> doh
<kingklick> have a homework question...shell scripting, cant figure it out for the life of me
<Blazeix> kingklick: go ahead and ask the question
<kingklick> i have to write a program to get two numbers from a user and calculate the first number times the second number and show the result. I can only use one loop and the addition operator (+)...cannot use multiplication. I understand what I am supposed to do just dont know how to write it.
<Blazeix> what do you have so far? you can use http://pastebin.com/ to share your script
<kingklick> i really have nothing....our teacher thinks we are all programmers and tells us if we dont know than google it....well ive been googling for 3 hours and have come up with nothing
<kingklick> this is an intro class and noone in the class has ANY programming background
<Blazeix> what sort of loops have you talked about in class?
<Blazeix> or what sort of loop do you want to use
<kingklick> for loops and while loops.....see i dont know, our teacher never really touched on the reasons why u need to use a certain one and what criteria makes using one better than the other
<Blazeix> ok, so i'd start out by making a for loop that just prints out numbers from 1 to 10. that's a good starting point
<Blazeix> next i'd try to make my script accept user input, and print out the numbers from 1 to the user-input-number.
<kingklick> ok, i can echo statements and read the user input...im okay at doing that. I know i can take those two numbers and perform a calculation to get the product without multiplying. Just dont know how to write it in code
<greg-g> try the first step type thing Blazeix suggested
<greg-g> just write something that prints 1 to 10 in a loop
<greg-g> then, from there, you can modify that to do other things, but the basic framework is done
<greg-g> what language, btw?
<kingklick> shell scripting in vi
<kingklick> if it is considered a certain language i have no clue....teacher never told us
<greg-g> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/loops1.html
<greg-g> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/07/bash-for-loop-examples/
<Blazeix> kingklick: using the term 'bash' might help you in your googling
<greg-g> indeed
<kingklick> appreciate it guys, ill do what i can.
<Blazeix> no problem, feel free to ask us any other questions
<kingklick> will do
<jrwren_> poor guy.
<kingklick> jrwren:  who me?
<jrwren_> yes
<kingklick> ha....y do u say that?
<jrwren_> because you sound so lost and yet you have this task to do.
<kingklick> yeah that pretty much sums it up lol. Noone had ANY of the homework done for last week. The teacher had to pretty much explain how to do every single program because nobody understood
<jrwren_> sounds like a bunch of lazy students :p
<jrwren_> what kind of class is it?
<kingklick> im a web design guy, not a programmer. And i only know so much about linux. Yeah well that goes without saying. It is college so ppl have jobs and kids. Intro to linux/unix
<jrwren_> ah, college, so an instructor.
<kingklick> yeah
<jrwren_> its college, the point of college is to teach yourself.
<jrwren_> that said: IME math adn computer instructors are the worst at explaining the point of things.
<kingklick> that seems like an oxymoron. What is the point of paying to go to college to have the instructors work for you, if you have to teach yourself. That is there job, to teach us. Self-research and studying is also good too, but seems redundant
<jrwren_> let me guess: this is community college?
<kingklick> business college
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-05
<jrwren_> its not an oxymoron, I assure you.
 * greg-g walks away from this conversation
<jrwren_> anyway, the piece it sounds like you are missing is that you can define multiplication in terms of addition. once you do that, it should be obvious how to use loops and addition
<jrwren_> lol greg-g
<jrwren_> disclaimer: i've been the shitty instructor at community college :)
<kingklick> lol its all good. I honestly understand logically how to do it. Just cant write the code and dont see why a loop would be necessary. I think it just adds to the difficulty rating
<brousch> How would you do multiplication using only addition without a loop?
<kingklick> take num1 and num2 from the input....and add num1 together num2 amount of times
<Blazeix> sounds like loop territory to me.
<kingklick> <-------CLUELESS.....dont understand for and while loops, do and done, makes no sense to me
<brousch> Think about the second part you said
<kingklick> sorry if this seems to be going round and round im just being honest, i have no idea
<brousch> You are correct, but how would you do it?
<brousch> "num2 amount of times"
<kingklick> logically i would just add them together somehow without a loop....how would a loop add them together?
<kingklick> honestly, im really trying to rack my brain for ways
<brousch> You tell the loop how many times to run
<Blazeix> a loop will do whatever you tell it to a certain amount of times
<kingklick> how do you know how many times though without knowing the input of num2
<brousch> You do know the input of num2
<brousch> it is num2!
<Blazeix> so the trick is that you do know what the input of num2 is, you'll ask the user, then do the loop.
<kingklick> thats what i meant, i wouldnt know it, the user would
<Blazeix> you'll ask the user for input, and store it in a 'variable'
<Blazeix> then you can use your variable in your program, so you'll know what value the user typed
<Blazeix> a for loop can use a variable -- it doesn't have to be hard-coded to specific number.
<kingklick> i know i have to echo the statements, than read the input, than start the loop. but as far as declaring variables....
<Blazeix> do you have an example program that's reading the user input?
<Blazeix> or something you've written so far
<kingklick> no i dont....i dont really know how to write the loop with arguments and conditions, becasue they werent explained that well....i know its like "for do this and this" done?
<Blazeix> take a look at this for loop in bash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_loop#Bash
<Blazeix> the second form, specifically
<Blazeix> you can replace the '5' with a variable
<jrwren_> ya know, you have a really good point - if you have never programmed before, getting a bash for loop to run X times is not easy.
<jrwren_> i dont' know how to do it without seq
<jrwren_> did you learn seq ?
<jrwren_> also, do you have a textbook?
<kingklick> didnt learn seq....there is a textbook, but the examples and explanations are very vague
<Blazeix> i'd pay attention to the examples. if they're code they can't be too vague :)
<jrwren_> type in every example, change every value in every example so you now how each bit works.
<kingklick> true but as far as arithmetic examples like the one problem i have to do there isnt anything in the book to even help a little bit
<Blazeix> can you use what we've linked so far to print out the numbers 1 to 10?
<Blazeix> i think getting some code running might help
<jrwren_> oh god, i guess I could increment myself without using seq. YUK.
<Blazeix> yeah, math in bash in general is pretty ugly
<jrwren_> I don't mind that.
<jrwren_> its just, seq seems to be the idomatic unix way to do it, and yet, if you don't know about it - yeah, you have to do all the extra bits
<Blazeix> yeah, i'd lean toward a c-style for loop in bash, not idiomatic
<jrwren_> right.
<kingklick> ill have to try something tomorrow guys.....i appreciate the help. Ill check in tomorrow
<Blazeix> good luck
<kingklick> thx
<greg-g> :/
<jrwren_> ok, he is gone, everyone paste their solutions :p
<Blazeix> haha
<jrwren_> what, no one went and wrote it to see if there was some tricK?
<Blazeix> oh no, i totally did :) http://vpaste.net/coNXL
<jrwren_> whoa, i didn't know bash had a for (()) form
<Blazeix> i definitely had that "wait, how the hell does math work in bash" moment
<Blazeix> had to look it up
<jrwren_> i did mine as a oneliner http://vpaste.net/bc3GL
<jrwren_> but i used seq.
<Blazeix> yeah, that's probably better
<jrwren_> nah.
<jrwren_> i like yours
<Blazeix> not pure bash, but seq is much more common to see
<jrwren_> reading C code: i see gotos
<snap-l> Evenming
<snap-l> evening, even
<snap-l> read scrollback. seq is definitely the way to get around pain in bash
<snap-l> Seesmic turned off Twitter Proxy accounts, so no more identi.ca on my phone
<mathomastech> snap-l: I read yesterday that twitter was also shutting down Tweetdeck over the course of the next few weeks.
<snap-l> Nice. What a bag of assholes.
<snap-l> Also mustard isn't working either, so yippe.
<mathomastech> Yea, I think twitter has begun the process of depreciating their API's
<mathomastech> I never really used twitter. I have an account, and gave it about a year when it first came out but never really got anything out of it so like facebook, I basically trashed it.
<snap-l> I told myself I'd keep twitter around as long as I could access it via third party applications
<brousch> Hootsuite still works
<brousch> snap-l: Isn't identi.ca going away?
<brousch> Hm, maybe there are issues with hootsuite
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> mathomastech: it's keeping it in web form, just not in app form (phone, etc)
<rick_h_> yea, api end of days is upon us. Bye bye ver1.0 api
<snap-l> brousch: I tried to use hootsuite with identi.ca. It doesn't work.
<brousch> It is a poor experience
<snap-l> Or at least I have a better chance of launching a Saturn 5 by poking buttons than I do of figuring out how hootsuite is supposed to work
<snap-l> :qa
<snap-l> hah
<jjesse> wow there is fascinating conversation in #kubuntu-devel on what Mir means to kubuntu
<jjesse> and what's going to happen w/ things
<brousch> ut oh
<rick_h_> qt ftw?
<jrwren_> i think some parts of KDE is direct to xlib
<jjesse> yeah not quite
<jjesse> yeah not quite sure
<jjesse> the problem is that when kubuntu was created it tried to stay as core to default KDE as possible
<jjesse> so with MIR that must change
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/893/
<snap-l> How's the afternoon so far?
<snap-l> listening to http://metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> Wish I was working from home so I could keep UDS on in the background
<rick_h_> hate hotels and their climate control, uncomfy chairs, etc
<brousch> rick_h_: You on vacation?
<rick_h_> brousch: oh yea..sprinting vacation
<rick_h_> less sun, more code
<snap-l> rick_h_: Either fishstick or oven?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Either fishstick or popsicle
<snap-l> Approved vs Unapproved locos appear to be going by the wayside
<snap-l> This makes me happy.
<jcastro> that sounds awesome
<jcastro> it's like, who cares, just drink beer and ubuntu
<snap-l> Exactly
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> Frankly, if it gets people concentrating more on going good work and not policing the work of others, I'm all for it.
<jcastro> indeed
<greg-g> snap-l: so, no more conf packs?
<snap-l> greg-g: I think it'll be evaluated on a case-by-case basis
<snap-l> but there's not that many resources to go around anymore, so the distinction between the two is becoming more of a status symbol
<snap-l> and less about who gets a bigger piece of the pie.
<snap-l> If losing out on DVD shipments means we don't have to waste cycles on grading each loco against each other, I'll live
<snap-l> I think it'll also be easier to find people to be a part of the loco council if it doesn't mean having to grind through locos
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, one part of why I dropped off that
<greg-g> (the council)
<derekv> http://ergodox.org/Default.aspx want
<greg-g> derekv: innteresting, looks like the same key layout as the Kinesis, except it also has six extra keys for your index fingers there in the middle
<derekv> yes, which i was thinking about wanting already
<derekv> and
<derekv> i really want split
<rick_h_> the kenisis has the same center keys
<rick_h_> ah, well the countoured does...
<derekv> the thumb keys are the same
<greg-g> I mean the ones to the left of h and the right of g
<derekv> i wanted a split + countoured kinesis
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah, yea
<derekv> but, this is better, except its not pitted
<greg-g> derekv: the advantage? I have that one
<derekv> advantage pro, typing on one now
<greg-g> yeah, the pit makes a difference, in my opinion
<rick_h_> hmm, does this exist?
<greg-g> right, me too! :)
<derekv> rick_h_: not that i can find, this is the closest, just stumbled on it
<derekv> its a kit however
<greg-g> haha http://ergodox.org/About.aspx
<derekv> but on the bright side you can pick your switches
<rick_h_> oh hell, this is a build your own adventure kind of thing
<rick_h_> interesting
<derekv> greg-g: nothing there
<rick_h_> lol https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
<greg-g> have I told you I'd pay someone to put a trackpall or touch pad in the center of my advantage pro? Well, I would. Who wants to?
<greg-g> derekv: hence my haha :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: nice!
<derekv> greg-g: its been done
<derekv> i like the mouse mouse
<derekv> mouse
<derekv> mouse mouse
<greg-g> derekv: yeah, but all one offs, and I don't have the time, I'm willing to pay!
<derekv> you just want a usb trackpad, some glue or velcro, and shorten the cord
<derekv> do you have the usb advatage?
<snap-l> God I hate split keyboards. :)
<snap-l> But cool if someone wants that. :)
<rick_h_> derekv: I've got that one
<rick_h_> derekv: interested in buying let me know, will bring to CHC next week :)
<greg-g> derekv: yeah, usb advantage
<derekv> thats what I have
<derekv> though i could always use a third one
<derekv> ;p
<greg-g> derekv: I liked the idea of it being flush with the keyboard shell
<greg-g> derekv: I have only one personal one, but I've forced two orgs to buy one for my work desk :)
<greg-g> (CC and WMF)
 * snap-l doesn't understand those keyboards one whit. :)
<snap-l> It's like those damn Microsoft Natural keyboards
<greg-g> BUT BETTER!
<rick_h_> snap-l: just wait, we only recently got you on mechanical :P
<greg-g> and just about the only thing that has helped my wrist pain
<greg-g> rick_h_++
<snap-l> reserving judgement, but silently judging you
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> used to that
<derekv> never really like the microsoft naturals
<rick_h_> if they had decent switches I'd still probably use one
<greg-g> me neither
<rick_h_> now, a MS natural mechanical with 10less would be awesome!
 * snap-l ius going to figure out how to mount a keyboard like that on a beach ball
<snap-l> and call it the ball-keyboard
<snap-l> And come up with some bullshit ergo reason why everyone needs my balls
<derekv> one  problem with the kinesis countour is that it isn't split enough
<greg-g> derekv: good point, yeah, I could use about another 2-3 inches
<greg-g> one keyboard per child!
<derekv> i'd use like 3 ft
<greg-g> one (custom) keyboard per child!
<greg-g> wha?
<snap-l> Who needs desks when you can use the dead-space between your kinesis pods
<derekv> yes the other problem with the kinesis is the size
<derekv> actually, are there "thin" keyboards with mechanical switches
<snap-l> What are the name of those handlebars on motorbikes that are extended above the rider's head?
<derekv> choppah
<greg-g> apehangers
<rick_h_> yea, apehangers
<derekv> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfg_e6YG37U
<snap-l> That's what I think of when I think of kinesis keyboards
<greg-g> snap-l: do you also hum "born to be wild"?
<derekv> snap-l: did someone tell you your suppoled to put it above your head
<derekv> because, they were having a joke
<snap-l> greg-g: no, UI just think they're ridiculous
<greg-g> derekv: thanks!
<snap-l> http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/40_Now_Those_Are_Ape_Hangers.jpg
<greg-g> derekv: I don't know if you saw, we had the author of The Chair, Galen something, come talk to WMF about sitting/chairs/etc
<derekv> no..
<derekv> didn't know
<derekv> trackpad is the ergonomic worst case scenario
<derekv> trackpad on laptop that is
<derekv> wouldn't matter if your not using it for hours though
<snap-l> I'm surprised nobody has tried to put the Blackberry roll-on ball in the center of a laptop keyboard
<rick_h_> they do that on keyboards for server rooms
<derekv> my bad habit is not alwasy using shift or ctrl on opposite hand as key
<greg-g> derekv: that guy seems too "UGHUH I'M A STRONG MAN" too me :)
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, same here. only left ctrl/shift exist in my world
<snap-l> Not thumb-level, I mean in nipple-space
<greg-g> derekv: yeah, ditto on that (shift/ctrl/alt)
<derekv> greg-g: kelly starrett?
<greg-g> derekv: yeah
<derekv> greg-g: couple things, one in that video he seemed really nervous and not himself
<snap-l> I barely use my right hand for shift / ctrl
<greg-g> derekv: I admit, I only skipped around for 20 seconds :)
<derekv> the other, he's a fitess and mobility expert, physical therapist, and he is (not kidding) smarter than all of us combined
<derekv> but he talks like a surferbro
<derekv> well maybe not combined. =p
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLeREzs-nqI >
<snap-l> ?
<greg-g> derekv: :)
<snap-l> I dunno... my parents think I'm pretty smart. ;)
<derekv> actually I don't know what he talks like he says really wacky shit
<derekv> he's probably nervous at the google thing trying not to say something outlandish
<rick_h_> woot https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ke1Y3P9D0Bc looks better than 2
 * rick_h_ admits to being fanboi
<jrwren_> i upgraded to flake8 2, when they announced a few days ago - and today is my first day back in python - VERY STRICT NOW - much nicer.
<derekv> ugh ok gotta focus ttyls
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea
<greg-g> rick_h_: NOT URGENT: getting 502 errors on bookie when trying to save, losing tag data but links are bmark'd
<rick_h_> greg-g: looking
<rick_h_> greg-g: what tags were you trying to use?
<greg-g> ergo, keyboard, diy, kit
<jrwren_> I really like #128 - continuation line under-indented for visual indent.
<jrwren_> i never knew the right style for that :)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, lots of those to fix but definitely nier
<rick_h_> nicer
<rick_h_> jrwren_: so that's the updated pep8 doing that
<jrwren_> right
<snap-l> Yeah, I've come to not ragequit over that one. :)
<snap-l> First time I saw that, I couldn't figure out what the right one owas
<rick_h_droid> evening
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Party party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-06
<jcastro> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0DUlXJnv6X8/UTZ2bX4ZCJI/AAAAAAABOCc/yzarZ0DhyY4/s679/13+-+1
<snap-l> hahahaha
<snap-l> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/eliminate-bi-annual-time-change-caused-daylight-savings-time/ShChxpKh <- please sign this if you haven't already
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQGNw6frvSM&list=WL36D3B2DC8B3E5763
<snap-l> I think I neede a bigger office
<UnFixed> hi
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> How's the morning so gar?
<snap-l> far, even?
<rick_h_> party party
<snap-l> rick_h_: When are you coming back from sprints?
<rick_h_> snap-l: saturday morning
<rick_h_> going to head out 6:01pm friday and at least get half way
<snap-l> Ugh.
<snap-l> Keep an eye on the weather. Might get nasty out there.
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> We are leading Urea manufacturer in China. Highest quality with Best price.
<snap-l> Yay! I can get my piss from China!
<snap-l> Quality piss at affordable prices.
<slestak> whats a quick way to get an ubuntu servers release level?  uname -a isnt giving me what I wanted.
<slestak> would liek to know if it is 12.04.1, 12.04.2, etc from shell
<rick_h_> slestak: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckingYourUbuntuVersion
<slestak> ty sir, i shoulda googled
<jrwren_> its a good day.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: woot
<jrwren_> discussed this last night: https://speakerdeck.com/alex/why-python-ruby-and-javascript-are-slow
<jrwren_> and it directly matches some work I'm doing on optimizing some slow py
<jcastro> jrwren_: are you coming to AACS?
<jrwren_> no
<jrwren_> i never go to aacs. i haven't in years
<rick_h_> must...not...shoot...anyone
<brousch> rick_h_: Put down the camera if photos aren't allowed
<rick_h_> heh...what's the wait period in GA I wonder...
<brousch> Do they have one?
<rick_h_> I can only hope not
<snap-l> rick_h_: That good, eh?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-07
<brousch> ut oh. Time to kickban greg-g?
<greg-g> it's not like you didn't see this coming when I quite the LoCo Council and the Membership Review Board how ever many months ago that was
<greg-g> quite? quit
<brousch> It's still sad
<brousch> Going to Debian?
<greg-g> been there for over a year
<greg-g> maybe a year, something
<brousch> I hope Mir doesn't mess up Kubuntu too much
<greg-g> too late
<greg-g> the announcement was fucking dumb
<greg-g> "hey, we've been talking about this for a while internally, but you know, now we'll tell you while there is already a shit storm out there, you're fucked."
<brousch> heh
<brousch> There'll always be Debian
<greg-g> indeed
<jrwren_> thank goodness
<snap-l> There's always one shitstorm per cycle
<snap-l> so now that we're going rolling release, maybe it'll be continual shitstorm
<rick_h_droid> evening
<rick_h_droid> woot shitstorm
<jjesse-home> evening
<jjesse-home> brousch: it looks like kubuntu will stay the same for now
<jjesse-home> and won't worry about adapting mir
<jjesse-home> somehow
<snap-l> greg-g: So will you still be around for Ubuntu stuff, or is that part of the relationship?
<widox> mathomastech: hola
<mathomastech> widox: Hows is going.
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<rick_h_droid> howdy CHC
<Blazeix> hey
<snap-l> Howdy.
<snap-l> Man, this phone is nice for tethering. :)
<rick_h_droid> sweet
<snap-l> rick_h_: We got lucky, and got the room this week
<greg-g> snap-l: I'll still be in #ubuntu-us-mi, if that's what you mean :)
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/03/07/just-because-youre-grinding-the-organ-doesnt-mean-i-have-to-dance/
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<snap-l> I wish Elite Keyboards would get a real shipper.
<snap-l> Replacement is coming on Monday
<snap-l> Original estimate was Friday
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: woto on getting the CHC room
<rick_h_> I don't get this though. Rolling releases was brought up as a topic at the last UDS
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's a culmination of things, not just rolling releases
<snap-l> the abbreviated online-only UDS
<snap-l> announced one week before the event
<rick_h_> yea, I guess that one is the big one but funny since it only really effects a small number of people
<snap-l> the transition to Mir, Unity moving to QT
<rick_h_> but yea, nvm, I was thinking of rolling and Mir and forgot that
<jjesse> are you saying the move to a rolling release only affects a small number of people?
<snap-l> jjesse: I think he meant UDS
<jjesse> oh
<snap-l> I think the bigger problem is people are getting tired of the community being the last to know anything, and being told to accept it, or you're just whining
<snap-l> Changing focus, changing direction
<rick_h_> but not all this is last to know is my point.
<snap-l> I don't have a problem with Canonical taking a leadership role, frankly. I have a problem with the implicit "this is where we're going, now be a good little community and keep dancing" notion
<snap-l> I've already added a few agenda items for the next meeting regarding being more honest with ourselves and our participation
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/514/detail/
<jjesse> +1 to what you just said snap-l
<snap-l> I think it's time to stop putting on a facade of participation
<shakes808> Good morning all
<snap-l> Hey shakes808
<shakes808> Long time lol
<snap-l> Ended up getting the expansion for Thunderstone: Advance (Caverns of Bane)
<shakes808> Nice
<snap-l> That and the GURPS book I had in my hand.
<shakes808> I was looking at that
<shakes808> looks interesting
<snap-l> Which, Thunderstone or GURPS?
<shakes808> Thunderstone
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a deck-builder with a pretty strong theme.
<shakes808> what is GURPS
<snap-l> Generic Universal Role Playing System
<shakes808> Thunderstone similar to MtG?
<snap-l> It's a one-size-fits-most RPG
<shakes808> GURPS better than D&D?
<snap-l> Different goals
<shakes808> or Pathfinder?
<snap-l> I haven't played MtG, but it's not randomized. Every set has the same cards
<snap-l> GURPS has differnt goals than D&D and Pathfinder. It's more about being realistic and making it easier to convert other source material into a GURPS system
<snap-l> there's literally a rule for most things, and the implicit permission that you don't have to use them all
<snap-l> s/implicit/explicit
<snap-l> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/
<snap-l> GURPS has a TON of sourcebooks as well
<snap-l> and great support
<shakes808> Would you be willing to learn me :D
<snap-l> GURPS or Thunderstone?
<snap-l> Thunderstone would be an easier learning. ;)
<shakes808> Whichever. I like to play games :D
<shakes808> I am up at that store about once a week and one in downtown Utica about 1-2 times a week lol
<snap-l> Wow
<snap-l> I live by GOB, but I'm usually there 1-2 a month
<snap-l> trying to cut back. :)
<shakes808> haha
<snap-l> Are you coming to Penguicon?
<snap-l> They have a whole gaming rea
<snap-l> area,even
<shakes808> ... when is it
<snap-l> http://2013.penguicon.org/
<snap-l> end of April
<shakes808> will have to look at it later. Works internets are running like turtles
<shakes808> :-\
<snap-l> No worries
<jrwren> good morning.
<jrwren> i just read planet.
<jrwren> its very sad.
<rick_h_> jrwren: morning
<dzho> 2004-2013 RIP Ubuntu release cycle http://zgp.org/pipermail/linux-elitists/2004-December/010723.html
<rick_h_> it's not rip, LTS every two years. Same as has always been. Just people got relying on releases in between to be so rock solid when they were never meant to be
<jrwren> rick_h_: bullshit.
<rick_h_> the two year gap is where things like unity come out to grow, and now you don't have to wait 6mo for the updated unity to suck less
<jrwren> they were always meant to be rock solid. they simply were not meant ot be long term supported.
<rick_h_> jrwren: the first release after LTS was always the place where anything risky came out to be bleeding edge and suffered for 6mo
<dzho> > Same as has always been.
<dzho> this is hilarious.
<jrwren> yes and it was never the goal to ship unstable.
<rick_h_> and it's not hte goal now :)
<dzho> it wasn't always that way--the 2 yr LTS cycle came later.
<rick_h_> debian testing isn't meant to be unstable
<jrwren> anyway, i'm not lamenting the end of the release cycle. the community people leaving is what is very sad.
<dzho> at first, there was only the 6 month cycle.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, definitely.
<dzho> only several releases into that cycle did they announce the 2-year LTS cycle
<rick_h_> but the rolling release is nothing to get up about imo. I complete agree on many of the other points
<dzho> and then, only after several LTS cycles did they extend the support period.
<rick_h_> dzho: right, but you're talking about software in a multi-year scale
<dzho> yes, so?
<rick_h_> of course it's just been a few. A lot happens in a year/two in software
<rick_h_> "only after several LTS cycles" reads "only after our 4yr old project..."
<dzho> my point is that, if you have some memory or knowledge of the history of this stuff, it all looks sort of ephemeral, and yes, getting worked up about it, either in terms of reacting against change, or apologizing for it, seems, well . . . uninformed.
<jrwren> dzho: i agree.
<dzho> I think what it represents is that Canonical and Ubuntu have both gotten big enough to develop managerial bureaucracy of the kind that fucks with things to justify themselves.
<dzho> I am probably projecting more than a little bit from my own situation.
<snap-l> I think a major part of this is how handset development is more closed than desktop development. Desktops are a utility now.
<snap-l> And handsets have carriers that have to be involved because of government oversight (at least in the US)
<snap-l> But I also think Canonical has taken the community for granted, and we're now seeing some more heated backlash.
<rick_h_> annoucement != release. Community is being asked to get involved once it's been decided to do it and before it's released.
<snap-l> This isn't just the rolling release stuff
<snap-l> It's all of the other directional changes that have come out
<rick_h_> I know, but hte phones aren't out yet, mir isn't running the world yet.
<rick_h_> canonical has come out and said we've got some work going on this...bring the community into it. Ubuntu wasn't first built via a community meeting. The community failed to bring Ubuntu to the world before
<rick_h_> only when someone got a set of people in a room to build a 0.1 did it come to be
<rick_h_> then the community got involved and helped along side for the next 7 years
<snap-l> Yes, and now the community is being told to sit quietly and awit further orders.
<rick_h_> honestly, of the reaction is pretty darn blind.
<rick_h_> snap-l: how so?
<rick_h_> I'm missing a single thing that's come across in that way
<rick_h_> the cancel of UDS early is the only egregious thing, but even that's not sit down and wait for orders
<rick_h_> well, not early, but so short of time
<snap-l> The change for Unity to Qt
<snap-l> The change from X server to Mir
<snap-l> They may be necessary changes, no doubt
<rick_h_> ok, so the announcement is up, but ubuntu doesn't ship on Mir today. It's just a new project and the community can now get involved.
<rick_h_> and the community is encouraged to get involved
<rick_h_> but wtf does the community want? Canonical sees the need for code to get written and starts it. Then asks others to get invovled. I did the same thing with bookie
<rick_h_> "here's my new project that fits my needs, anyone else want to hack on what I've got going?"
<snap-l> The major problem is the community isn't as empowered as it thinks it is
<rick_h_> it never ever is. I can reject any patch to bookie I want to
<rick_h_> I've done it actually. There's a MP that's been idle forever because it's not a change I want
<snap-l> It's the realization that Canonical runs the show, and the community can either follow, or go away.
<rick_h_> fortunately we've had discussions, etc
<rick_h_> that's beyond over simplifying
<snap-l> right, it's more nuanced than that
<rick_h_> find me a case where someone in the community was shoo'd away like that and I'll take back what I say
<jjesse> rick_h_,  i think the issue is "hey we are going to go w/ waylaid and its going to be awesome" and then all of the sudden we created this cool stuff
<rick_h_> jjesse: but that's not how it happened at all and it's revisionist to say. "Hey, we're doing cool stuff that X wasn't built to handle, I think we should look to the future and this wayland thing appears to be it. Let's set out to check it out"
<rick_h_> then the real world happened and wayland isn't going to be able to do what was needed that X can't do either...so we started a new project. Come check it out and get involved
<rick_h_> it's just like me saying "I'm on delicious, I think we should check out pinboard...but after looking it won't work so here's my new project bookie"
<snap-l> rick_h_: And folks found out about after the direction was chosen
<rick_h_> snap-l: right, because I wasn't going to sit down and ask if anyone wants another bookmark app before I wrote any bookie. I decided I wanted one so I started it.
<jjesse> but by you creating bookie it doesn't kill or hurt derivatives as much as mir does
<rick_h_> it's not like it hurts people using X, or wayland, or anything else.
<jjesse> for example:  KDE and KWin won't support or work w/ Mir
<dzho> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles
<jjesse> so buy choosing Mir you get rid of kubuntu
<rick_h_> jjesse: how so? ok...so they can run on X like they do today...or update to work with Mir, or update to work on wayland
<jjesse> so KDE already works on Wayland
<rick_h_> it's like not X won't compile on ubuntu any more
<rick_h_> jjesse: great, then kubuntu can ship with wayland packages
<jjesse> but from discussion on #kubuntu-devel it looks like there were be things that Mir will do
<rick_h_> I don't understand wtf
<snap-l> rick_h_: You created Bookie to scratch your itch for a bookmarking application. That's different from creating a new stack for video
<dzho> you know, if I fault Canonical for anything, I fault it for buying into the "let's manipulate the consumer with marketing" approach.
<rick_h_> snap-l: I don't think so. It's just a larger itch for a company vs my own personal itch. It's the same premise
<dzho> but more so, I fault bandwagon jumpers for hopping on it over the years as the next cool thing.
<jjesse> i think Elizabeth raised a bigger issue when she wrote about what is the reason for the community council then
<rick_h_> meh, forget 'cool'. Just use what works.
<dzho> and now that it isn't the cool thing anymore, it's like everyone is waking up to a hangover and looking at who they're in bed with and  . . . reconsidering their earlier, intoxicated exuberance.
<snap-l> jjesse: Honestly, I think the CC really lost it's way with the loco approval process
 * rick_h_ goes to look for her post
<dzho> sometimes that grows into something more substantial, sometimes it's "aaaaaaaaaaaa, what have I done"
<jjesse> snap-l, i think the community council has been a rubber stamp for things for a long time
<jjesse> Canonical makes a decsision, Community Council rubber stamps idea and community approves it
<dzho> yeah, the whole "community" thing has been a facade all along.
<dzho> canonical is a company, full stop.
<rick_h_> bah, rolling release was a session at the last UDS. I sat in on it.
<jjesse> rick_h_, i don't think the issue is rolling release
<dzho> it has employees, it has customers, and then it has this ill-defined set of people who don't pay for the product, and don't get paid by the company.
<dzho> and for lack of a better term, that gets called "the community".
<snap-l> and the main problem the community is realizing is the meritocracy doesn't extend past the community boundaries.
<rick_h_> A rolling release proposal throws into question all the release-dependent work I have on my plate and whether I should be continuing that, like helping the docs team with their onboarding process and working with translations teams to continue their work.
<rick_h_> that's her quote. Now why does a rolling release mean that work done on translations/etc are no longer of value?
<dzho> I like Zooko's attitude towards this all--it would go a long way toward clarifying the relative position of various "stakeholders".
<snap-l> rick_h_: I don't understand that line of thinking
<rick_h_> if you were working on X for 13.04, a rolling release doesn't kill that at all?
<rick_h_> just keep working on it. It'll get released to users
<dzho> "just keeping working on it"
<rick_h_> and guess what...the work done during the month after that will also get released to users...in 13.05
<dzho> all your free time are belong to us
<snap-l> I can see where people would get upset with writing magazine articles about what's new with 13.04 since those have a few month lead-time
<rick_h_> dzho: no, this is stuff already being done
<rick_h_> this isn't 'all your free time' and that's beyond unfair
<dzho> the point about release targets is that it allows people to budget their time
<snap-l> it's like my Squeezebox article landing in LJ right before Logitech cancels the whole line
<rick_h_> dzho: sure, so keep doing that. It's not like you have to get something done each month.
<dzho> if it's "work on it all the time always" then that ability to budget your time disappears.
<rick_h_> when you get something done it goes before users
<rick_h_> if you don't get something done it doesn't get released...how is that any different?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, but there's the rub; the whole "approval" and "membership" cycles that say you do have to show activity
<dzho> rick_h_: maybe you're not event driven.  Many people are.  I am.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, over time. It's not like you come up for approval every 6mo with each release
<rick_h_> dzho: fine, then event driven to LTS
<snap-l> which are now outmoded because there's no more resources to compete against
<dzho> rick_h_: -us-ny has done community events
<dzho> they have usually been scheduled around releases
<dzho> releases give a focus to that planning for people who have other things to do with their time.
<rick_h_> so because there's no longer a gun over your head to complete something before **.10 it's a bad decision to do it?
<dzho> if planning for an ubuntu event is something that just could be done any old time, guess what?
<dzho> it isn't going to get done.  ever.
<snap-l> dzho: Bull
<rick_h_> after the disaster of unity at first I'd think people would be all over this to get a nice continiously updating unity...but it's now "you don't give me a deadline so $#@$#@ off"
<dzho> because the other event-driven things that volunteers have to do will always supercede it
<snap-l> dzho: I'm thinking of organizing a Community Service day in the near future
<snap-l> not release driven at all
<snap-l> Unity in 11.04 was rushed. I wish they had taken more time with it
<snap-l> 11.10 was a clusterbleep as well because of the release cycle
<rick_h_> snap-l: right, but we're OSS...release early/often and get better.
<snap-l> I'm all for the rolling release if it gives people time to get things stable
<rick_h_> if you think it would have been better if it was just released 6mo later I think you're white washing the issue a bit too much
<snap-l> No, I don't.
<snap-l> and I think the quality improvements for 12.04 were sorely needed
<snap-l> and it does provide the infrastructure to get quality baked in to a rolling release process
<rick_h_> before ubuntu a ton of people ran debian testing without any of these issues tossed about.
<rick_h_> so I go back to the only thing Canonical has done *wrong* is announcing no UDS too close to the event.
<snap-l> You have two different sets of needs
<snap-l> stable vs new
<rick_h_> and LTS has been the pillar of stable since it first came to be
<rick_h_> and allow for more flexibility in the time between
<rick_h_> it was why it was created in the first place
<snap-l> rick_h_: Agreed, but the way the new stuff was announced is also a point of contention
<snap-l> not even counting rolling releases for that, because it was a proposal
<snap-l> Like i mentioned in my blogpost:
<snap-l> Q: How do you know when the next Ubuntu is close to release?
<snap-l> A: When the Canonical vs. the community posts hit Planet Ubuntu.
<rick_h_> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2012/06/lets-roll-with-1210.html I mean look at that...June of last year
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, but from this channel people are expressing a lot of concerns I'm not understanding. I'm just trying to understand.
<rick_h_> jjesse: is worried that kubuntu runs on wayland but Unity won't. I don't get why that effects kubuntu, however I admit I'm not in that community/discussion so maybe I miss a point there.
<snap-l> rick_h_: From a technical perspective there's no problem
<rick_h_> then I was pointed to eliz's blog post about community/rolling release.
<snap-l> These are good decisions. Probably even important decisions.
<snap-l> It's just the relationship with the community is changing
<rick_h_> so what has got a bug up everyone's behind? what am I not seeing. And I hope that everyone understands that this is nothing at all to do with my work/etc.
<snap-l> It's no longer about empowered members having a say in the technical direction, it's about being citizens in the fields.
<snap-l> I keep trying not to say serfdom, but it's becoming a better word the more I try not to use it
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I guess I've never cared for that 'relationship with the community'. wtf does that mean? If you like doing documentation and like ubuntu then you can still write documentation in ubuntu. If you like working on app X, nothing is preventing you from contributing
<rick_h_> snap-l: come on, what would you have said if someone from Canonical sat down and said "we're thinking of writing our own display layer...what do you think?"
<snap-l> I would have thought they were nuts
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> First time I saw it, I thought they were nuts
<snap-l> but they made the case
<snap-l> Again, nothing technically wrong with the decision
<snap-l> but the presentation (par usual) leaves a lot to be desired.
<rick_h_> what is the ideal presenation?
<snap-l> It's like the Banshee / Amazon kerfluffle
<snap-l> "Hey, we're looking to replace X and Wayland with something cooler."
<rick_h_> this is nothing like that. No one took someone else's project and swapped out a 'for pay' code
<snap-l> rick_h_: The presentation is similar. The "we've made a decision, here's how it'll play out."
<rick_h_> if anything you can compare it against the rhythmbox/banshee/rhythmbox crap and that was community done at a UDS
<rick_h_> snap-l: it's BS. If wayland worked out it'd be "here's wayland running unity...here's how it works out"
<snap-l> rick_h_: So what needs to happen is a redefinition of roles
<snap-l> That's all
<rick_h_> what role? what community role was "approver of all changes to apps Ubuntu is built with"?
<snap-l> The role that people thought they had in this project to drive technical change
<brousch> The Mir issue is that Canonical will (likely) only ensure that Unity works on it, leaving Gnobuntu (or whatever), Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc to try to hack their own support for it before Canonical drops Xorg
<rick_h_> "Canonical announced ubuntu will ship with a clipboard manager that they built."
<snap-l> brousch: We don't know that. That's FUD
<rick_h_> "NOOOOOO! No one asked me if I wanted that clipboard manager!!!!"
<brousch> snap-l: FUD or not, rick_h_ asked what the griping was about
<rick_h_> brousch: sorry, which of those use unity now?
<brousch> That's the griping I've seen
<rick_h_> all of those run on a different WM on top of code that works today
<rick_h_> none of that code is going away
<brousch> So they're not dropping Xorg in 2014 or whatever?
<rick_h_> who cares...apt-get install xorg
<brousch> That assumes someone cares and feeds for xorg enough for that to work
<rick_h_> it's not like someone has said that only the following packages will be allowed to be installed on Ubuntu systems ...
<brousch> Which Canonical does now
<rick_h_> brousch: right, so there you go. Room for community to get involved to work on software they care about. :)
<rick_h_> if Ubuntu stopped shipping libreoffice because wtf...we all use google docs anyway.
<rick_h_> doesn't mean you can't apt-get install it, use it, hack on it, etc
<brousch> Right, but now communities have to support some big nasty thing that they didn't used to have to
<rick_h_> brousch: then don't support it. I mean I'm sorry if I used to support imports from delicious and now I don't. but bookie can't always promise to do all things for all people all the time regardless of what I want to support/use
<rick_h_> and if someone wants to send a patch to make those imports work then by all means they can. but I'm sick of updating that myself every 2mo when they change how it works.
<brousch> You are right, but that attitude is what rubs some people the wrong way
<snap-l> Again, it's not the technical direction that rubs me the wrong way
<snap-l> Frankly I couldn't care less how Ubuntu gets to the end goal, as long as it's not horribly broken along the way
<snap-l> but what gets to me is the notion that the community believed they had a say in the development of Ubuntu, and that belief is unfounded.
<rick_h_> bull...$#@$@#
<rick_h_> if you want to be involved in the development it's not like mir isn't accepting patches
<rick_h_> it's not like people wanting to write apps can't write apps, or write other distros can't...
<rick_h_> I guess if you were writing a display manager for ubuntu and found out mir was chosen you're hosed and sucks to be you
<rick_h_> see the guy that wrote a juju gui
<rick_h_> so I guess that's the thing. What development can a person no longer be involved with as a member of the community? What door is now closed that was previously open?
<snap-l> And that's the problem right there. The community is realizing we're just cogs in the machine.
<snap-l> Nothing has changed, it's just clarified.
<rick_h_> that's so deprecating for no reason...
<rick_h_> 'just cogs in the machine' says who? If you like working on something...you work on it. No one has demeaned or talked down on that contribution
<snap-l> How many things have you done for Ubuntu because of reputation rather than desire?
<snap-l> "Gotta get our karma up. Gotta show activity or we won't get approved"
<rick_h_> never
<snap-l> You're a better man than I
<rick_h_> and fine, if you want to show activity, what activity is no longer approved of?
<snap-l> None, but I'm redefining activity
<snap-l> ie: discussing how CHC shouldn't be called UH:CHC
<rick_h_> you go from 'community believed they had a say in the development of Ubuntu' to '"Gotta get our karma up. Gotta show activity or we won't get approved"'
<snap-l> Ceasing striving for reapproval
<snap-l> Not stressing over reapproval
<snap-l> Change in contribution to Ubuntu: 0
<snap-l> change in how I reframe my work: +1
<snap-l> Change in clearing the decks to make new things happen that I actually care about in the Ubuntu sphere: Perhaps
<snap-l> TBD
<rick_h_> meh, I thought we were all for the changes re: approval/etc.
<snap-l> I am, totally
<snap-l> I think that's part of the reason the community council is taking a personal hit
<snap-l> because that was their biggest role
<snap-l> or at least their most visible role
<rick_h_> yea, I mean don't care about that tbh. I was curious why people here in irc I know/care about were upset and trying to understand.
<snap-l> When Jono mentioned he'd had a change of heart over the approved / unapproved status, Laura was crestfallen
<rick_h_> I mean even greg-g seemed to agree that not dealing with approvals would be a plus for the council and he's leaving the community
<snap-l> I'm just wanting people to be honest with themselves about what their roles and responsibilities are
<snap-l> We need clarification
<snap-l> Do I care that people think they don't have a role in the technical leadership of Ubuntu? Not particularly
<rick_h_> ok, guess I should get some owrk done. Coming up on 2hrs of side tracking :)
<snap-l> I've learned through several iterations it's not the case. :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: But INTERNET DRAMA!
<rick_h_> I do want to understand why people are upset though. I hope I don't come across as demeaning or even as canonical lapdog/etc. I really don't understand.
<greg-g> rick_h_: lip service could be my two word summary of how I feel.
<rick_h_> but maybe I'm too much of a technical focus to get the 'people' side or something
<snap-l> Hell, I've even thought of registering a new domain for lococast: rickandcraigtalkaboutstuff
<rick_h_> lip service to what?
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> greg-g: ^
<greg-g> lip service from canonical to the community
<rick_h_> greg-g: but what has been taken from the community? Maybe you can explain it to me. What is no longer in the community domain that has been?
<greg-g> we just get told what to do/think instead of being seen as equals, Mark has said it himself regarding Mir/Touch/etc, basically (paraphrasing) "volunteers can't really contribute because unless you're full time on it you can't keep up"
<rick_h_> Ubuntu from day one has never been a pure community project like debian, nor meant to be.
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/19ueay/craig_maloney_just_because_youre_grinding_the/
<rick_h_> greg-g: but unity is open source, patches are welcome, I've not followed all the code but not really heard of people's owrk being rejected if that's what they chose to participate in
<greg-g> there was more community feedback and discussoin, the community was seen as an equal when debating things, with the final decision still resting at Canonical/Mark, but the debates still happened
<rick_h_> mir just got announced, it's GPL, what's closed about that?
<greg-g> now, we don't get those debates, and, if we do have the debates, we're violating the CoC
<greg-g> rick_h_: you're not listening :)
<greg-g> I didn't say closed
<greg-g> don't make strawmen
<greg-g> oh well, there is a reason I disabled comments on that post of mine....
 * greg-g goes to work
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, but I'm having a hard time viewing what the community discussion of 'we're thinking of building a display manager' would work in the community?
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, have fun
<snap-l> woah
<greg-g> snap-l: and dang you, now I have "You can dance if you want to" playing in loop in my head
<rick_h_> greg-g: if you get a sec I'd appreciate it if you knew of an example conversation/community interaction you were proud of at the time that doesn't/can't happen today.
<rick_h_> greg-g: offline/etc all good.
<snap-l> greg-g: You're welcome. :) I added that today.
<greg-g> rick_h_: this is for you: http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/960 :)
<snap-l> greg-g: There isn't a big enough blunt in the world for that to make sense
<greg-g> hahaha
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: I look forward to that video...wonder if it'll be an empty room
<mathomastech1> 3 1/2 hours sitting at the car repair place. Only good thing to come out of it so far is a lot of quality web development done.
<rick_h_> mathomastech1: doh
<snap-l> mathomastech-mob: Ugh
<mathomastech-mob> Yeah. I was thinking a simple adjustment or something. Nope. My whole wheel is pretty busted. Need a completely new one.
<snap-l> mathomastech-mob: What happened?
<snap-l> Pothole?
<rick_h_> wheel?
<rick_h_> oh, tire wheel, sucky
<mathomastech-mob> snap-l: It's actually just wear and tear. That or when I got my tires rotated a month or so ago they didn't tighten some parts all the way.
<rick_h_> torque wrench ftw
<snap-l> Yeah, I've never been a fan of tire totation
<snap-l> or rotation for that matter
<mathomastech-mob> snap-l: I was thinking it may have been a pothold, because I did hit one yesterday morning. But I asked and the mechanic said that this was not pothold damage.
<mathomastech-mob> rick_h_: Yea, the wheel/rim needs replacing.
<mathomastech-mob> Also my front sway bar is way out of alignment, something I already new. And I have no shockz. Also something I already knew. I haven't had shockz on the car for about 3 years, lol
<Blazeix> bummer, any idea on how much longer it will take?
<mathomastech-mob> Well, they said an hour, about 45 minutes ago. So hopefully not much longer. I am getting really hungry
<mathomastech-mob> Kinda depends though. They were waiting on one of the mechanics to get back with the wheel. I don't know if he ever got back though.
<brousch> Hm, could there be a link between the lack of shocks and your damaged wheels and sway bar?
<mathomastech-mob> No. They are all seperate issues, but all things that have been needing work for many years.
<mathomastech-mob> Well, except the tire, thats a recent problem
<mathomastech-mob> wheel*
<snap-l> Well that was fun
<rick_h_> snap-l: wheee!
<snap-l> made another blog post on this whole thing
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/03/07/the-ubuntu-community-collaborator-or-contributor/
<snap-l> I think that describes the crux of the issue
<brousch> Skeumorphic design is dead!
<snap-l> Though the first comment there about old hardware getting deprecated is fun
<snap-l> brousch: Waht, the paper?
<brousch> And the desk
<snap-l> If you can come up with a theme that I like for Wordpress, I'll use it. :)
<brousch> or is that the floor?
<snap-l> That's sort of what my desk looks like
<snap-l> Actually, it looked more like my old theme.
<snap-l> I got rid of that theme when I got rid of the Apple keyboard
<snap-l> and the Razer mouse I never had
<brousch> snap-l: Someone put you on Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/LinuxActionShow/comments/19ugu9/q_how_do_you_know_when_the_next_ubuntu_is_close/
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah
<brousch> Keyboard pr0n for you fetishists http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/03/07/212225/cherrys-new-keyboard-switches-emulate-ibm-model-m-feel
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-08
<rick_h_droid> evening
<jjesse> evening rick_h_
<jjesse> evening rick_h_droid
<rick_h_droid> we all partying hard?
<jjesse> yes totally
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> Still sprinting?
<rick_h_> yea, last day
<rick_h_> on the road 6:02pm today hopefully
<snap-l> rick_h_: How are things going with this sprint?
<rick_h_> so so, moving along.
<rick_h_> had my first vietamese food last night :)
<brousch> Is it really dog meat?
<rick_h_> well I did shrimp
<brousch> So was it good?
<rick_h_> well too many onions for me but oh well
<rick_h_> was pretty good though
<brousch> You can never have too many onions
<brousch> Now i need to find a vietnamese restaurant
<mathomastech> brousch: Ive been meaning to try Vietnamese food. I love trying all sorts of ethnic foods but Vietnamese is one type of food I 've never had.
<brousch> I have to do it at lunch because my wife is too scared of weird foods
<mathomastech> brousch: I know the feeling! A few weeks ago a friend and I went to Felafel king to get falafel's. They chicked out and ended up ordering a cheeseburger.
<brousch> wimps
<snap-l> There's avietnamese restauraunt in Clawson
<snap-l> I've never been there, but I hear it's good from folks I trust
<snap-l> http://www.yelp.com/biz/da-nang-restaurant-clawson
<snap-l> http://danangrestaurant.com/ <- better link
<snap-l> The morning calls for Ozric Tentacles
<jrwren> chickening out on felafel is just stupid.
<jrwren> i feel bad for your friend.
<snap-l> Yeah, Falafel is pretty good
<snap-l> but I know folks who sadly are meat and potatos folks who don't like to try new things
<jjesse> i used to be like that then my wife introduced me to foods that tasted good
<snap-l> My parents made sure I tried things
<snap-l> My mom grew up next to a Chaldean family, and learned how to make some really awesome middle-eastern dishes
<snap-l> Her tabbouleh is amazing
<jjesse> my wife's uncle is Syrian
<jjesse> so we have awesome food there
<snap-l> Not oily and very heavy on the lemon
<snap-l> jjesse: Nice!
<rick_h_> I've reached my sprint goals: https://twitter.com/jaycee/status/310052649724690434 lol
<brousch> retweeted
<rick_h_> snap-l: I showed him your blog post
<snap-l> hah. I just posted it.
<rick_h_> yea, it's the running joke this week so far
<snap-l> rick_h_: So some good is coming out of this sprint. :)
<snap-l> Hm, maybe some bracelets are in order
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> WWHR/RHD
<snap-l> What would Henry Rollins / Rick Harding do?
<rick_h_> WWRCRS (What would rick's code review say) in this case
<snap-l> Brilliant. :)
<snap-l> http://www.infoworld.com/t/java-programming/red-hats-java-leadership-grows-oracles-wanes-214137
<snap-l> Cool to see Red Hat stepping up (though it's probably because of legacy code like JBoss)
<snap-l> but damn if Java isn't getting kicked in the teeth lately.
<rick_h_> yea, it's not going well
<snap-l> I removed it from my machines
<snap-l> Moneydance ships with it's own JRE
<snap-l> JoDee has to use it for some physics demos
<snap-l> (browser-based, no less)
<snap-l> https://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=SJG3913
<snap-l> I swear SJGames should have a subscription program
<snap-l> "Stupid Shit with Muchkin logo on it that I desperately have to have"
<snap-l> *bing*
<jrwren> http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/02/20/180tb-of-good-vibrations-storage-pod-3-0/
<rick_h_> jrwren: <3
<jrwren> i might be getting one :)
<jrwren> probably a 2.0 pod prebuilt from 45drives
<jrwren> really gonna pressure bossman to get one
<greg-g> jrwren: wow, nice
<jrwren> *fingers crossed*
<rick_h_> jrwren: sweet
<snap-l> God, I can't wait for the new keyboard to show up
<snap-l> You never know what you have until it's gone
<rick_h_> definitely
<snap-l> Well, and Unity doesn't work with the numberpad arrow keys
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-09
<snap-l> Decided to pop for the 30Mdps v / 3Mbps ^ package from WOW!
<snap-l> Should be here Wednesday
<snap-l> God, I hate going into Microcenter
<snap-l> was looking at HDDs, but they were behind glass
<snap-l> and of course couldn't flag someone down in O(N) time.
<jjesse-home> i've only been into a mcirocenter once and it was a bad expereince
<jjesse-home> would never go back
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot, higher speeds ftw
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, hoping it'll give me some better upload speeds at least
<snap-l> D/L speeds are already OK
<snap-l> Funy enough, went back to Microcenter, and had no problem this time around
<rick_h_> ccccccbgjgvcnllcnijcunjnflhbkuvfdhvikjrteugt
<snap-l> Yubikey?
<Blazeix> it's rot13 for ppppppotwtipayypavwphawasyuoxhisquivxwegrhtg
<Blazeix> hope that helps
<snap-l> totally
<snap-l> I think he's setting up a ppp twit paywall
<rick_h_droid> Testing my keylogger
<rick_h_droid> heh
<tony_smlr> SMLR is live Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=uxRRwZl4zuI ,  Audio:  live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-10
<snap-l> OK, moved my home directory to a separate 1TB drive
<snap-l> And sadly that drive is 78% full now.
<snap-l> Which leads me to believe the OS drive could probably exist on a 60GB SSD drive comfortably.
<snap-l> lsof
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<derekv> ever since the begining me me using email in the mid nighties I've signed emails with _derek
<derekv> drew was looking at an email of mine and was like, "why the heck do you do that, are you a private data?"
<brousch1> I've been using the Transformer Infinity 75% of the time at home. I just tried to touch an icon on my Thinkpad
<mathomastech> Heading over to Caribou Coffee to hack away until 9 or so. Feel free to join me!
<mathomastech> https://plus.google.com/u/0/103260909450809151378/posts/jPJy681Y2hD
<Blazeix> mathomastech: you left yet?
<Blazeix> cause that coffeeshop just closed
<mathomastech> Blazeix: I was just about to leave
<Blazeix> closed just last week
<mathomastech> Dang. Well i'll just go to a different one :)
<Blazeix> nearest caribou coffee is on orchard and 14 now, next to whole foods
<mathomastech> Kk, I know of it. Well then I guess I'll be going there. Thanks for the heads up. You should join me.
<Blazeix> yeah, i'll see you there. probably show up a little after 5:30
<Blazeix> mathomastech: https://github.com/waf/config/blob/master/.vimrc
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-03
<rick_h_> anyone have a pinboard account?
<rick_h_> evening and all
<jrwren> pinboard? is that like pintrst?
<rick_h_> heh, it's the snarky version of delicious
<jrwren> oh
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/pinboard
<cmaloney> I deleted mine a while back so no
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok cool
<rick_h_> all good
<rick_h_> I think we've got an import bug fixed but want to verify
<rick_h_> but it requires a pinboard dump with a private bookmark in the export
<cmaloney> right
<rick_h_> I should spend the $10 and just do it
<rick_h_> but something psychological about paying the $$ to pinboard...seems wrong
<cmaloney> Does lmorchard have an account?
<rick_h_> yea, I might bug him if he's at CHC or something
<rick_h_> he's algo got a giant giant one and just need something small
<rick_h_> I thought a few people here had accounts
<greg-g> not I
<greg-g> I use bookie :)
<cmaloney> I did but his attitude started pissing me off
<rick_h_> you guys are too good to me :)
<cmaloney> heh, Twitter is down,
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I'm getting some failbot
<rick_h_> :/ oh well. There are times I think it's better that way
<rick_h_> though I just found out about a NAS rootkit from twitter so guess I can't complain today
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> I just checked mine, and installed "Antivirus Essential" (which probably won't help, but it felt good)
<greg-g> I'm ok, but man
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> yea, I had thought about running a service or two on it but this affirms my decision not to
<cmaloney> They rolled out some new "following shit" for a second in my time stream. I look forward to seeing big photos of people I couldn't care less about
<rick_h_> last thing I want is to give someone access to every backup of every file going back years across multiple machines :/
<cmaloney> I'm starting to consider getting a NAS for my music / backups
<rick_h_> my synology is slow, but it's nice and does the job
<cmaloney> but seems the base-cost for anything that I might want is $300+ for bare metal
<rick_h_> cron'd rsync and voila
<rick_h_> yea, it took me over a year to bite the $$ on it
<greg-g> yeah, slow but 19 watts at peak is awesome
<greg-g> (the one I got)
<rick_h_> yea, exacttly, sits quiet in the corner
<rick_h_> yea, I got the atom one so that it was lower power
<greg-g> yep
<rick_h_> anyway, time to go read some more kanban before bed. See you all later
<cmaloney> How do they do RAID On thise things? Are they only RAID1?
<cmaloney> Laterness.
<greg-g> cmaloney: you can choose either standard raid 1 or synology hybrid raid (which is built using floss piece, iirc) that lets you grow/shrink your partition as you add bigger/smaller harddrives
<greg-g> or no raid
<cmaloney> Ah, so LVMish?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> ish
<cmaloney> Hmmm..
<cmaloney> Everything in my being says I want RAID5, save for my wallet which thinks buying a bigger drive is A-OK.
<greg-g> http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/What_is_Synology_Hybrid_RAID%3F
<cmaloney> "The SHR allows for 1-disk worth of redundancy - meaning that the SHR volume can suffer the lost of one disk, and the data volume will still be available for use."
<cmaloney> OK, that's fucked up
<jrwren> you could do like I do and crazy LVM it.
<greg-g> cmaloney: wait,why is that fucked up?
<cmaloney> I lived through a RAID-0 set up at Ford. I'm never doing that again.
<cmaloney> greg-g: I thought it was just one drive. ;)
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> yeah, it's basically raid 1, but a bit smarter with random sized disks
<jrwren> i should probably do more raid. at this point, even the stuff I don't actually care about would be annoying enough to replace.
<cmaloney> jrwren: same here
<greg-g> I did it, even though I only have 2x2tb in there, in case I want to upgrade to 4tb at some point. 1: buy 2x4tb 2: replace 1 of the disks 3: let it heal 4: replace the other one 5: heal 6: success (with step 0 being: "have a fucking backup as always")
<jrwren> but that is the pain... a backup.
<jrwren> now it costs 3X at much!
<greg-g> raid != backup
<jrwren> yes.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i just want storage.
<greg-g> then go raid 0
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> now I gotta pay 3X so that I can suffer disk fail & suffer human fail
<jrwren> I have JBOD via LVM now ;)
<jrwren> its awesome
<jrwren> knock on wood :)
<greg-g> yep, which is, what, 3 x $100 for 3tb?
<jrwren> probably
<jrwren> but I've got a bit more than that.
<greg-g> it was that for 2 tb when I did it half a year ago
<jrwren> 2-4TB and 3-2TB
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> all jbod?
<jrwren> one of teh 1tb isn't even plugged in yet :)
<jrwren> i just got it last week
<jrwren> all in an LVM VG, and then I carve as needed.
<jrwren> so I have a mirrored LV and a nonmirrored LV
<greg-g> ah
<cmaloney> So is there a preferred way to do backup in the cloud?
<jrwren> not prefered by me.
<jrwren> i was doing tar | gpg | s3
<greg-g> git-annex copy . --to glacier
<greg-g> git-annex copy . --to mycolobox
<greg-g> done
<greg-g> gpg support built in, as needed/wanted
<jrwren> git-annex?
<greg-g> OMG
<greg-g> http://git-annex.branchable.com/
<greg-g> joey hess, debian amazing dude
<cmaloney> better than duplicity?
<greg-g> it is fucking rock solid
<jrwren> i think i've seen this, but I"ve not heard anything
<greg-g> git-annex isn't really comparable to duplicity
<greg-g> I love love love love love git-annex
<greg-g> so, here's an example
<jrwren> cool, thanks I'll check it out
<greg-g> I have my Photos/ dir, it shows exactly everything that git-annex knows exists
<greg-g> ie: all years etc
<greg-g> they're all symlinks, to a hash version of the file
<greg-g> the symlinks are checked in git, thus you can go back in time
<greg-g> the symlinks are either broken (pointing to non existant data) or not
<greg-g> I do "git-annex get $somefilename" and it'll get that file from some other remote that has it (or tell me "hey, plug in this harddrive"
<greg-g> it has safe guards out the wazo
<greg-g> like, numcopies (whic you set in .gitattributes)
<greg-g> I have it set to 3 for my Photos/videos, which means it won't let me 'git-annex drop' any file if it can' verify the existance of 3 copies
<greg-g> (in trusted locations, and I tell it not to trust my laptop(s))
 * greg-g stops self
<greg-g> well, one more thing
<greg-g> there's also the dropbox-type mode (called "direct", opposite of indirect) which is everything just no symlinks
<greg-g> the files are all there as real files
<greg-g> but it auto syncs to your remotes for you
 * greg-g stops for real
<brousch> Bitter cold today. Must be a dry cold.
<rick_h_> yea, -9F on the weather station this morning
<brousch> It sucks the warmth from any exposed skin
<rick_h_> I'm afraid http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/
<cmaloney> I find this surprising
<brousch> Siri will calm you
<rick_h_> heh, siri better listen to what my google voice has to say
<rick_h_> and apple maps? I already think twice when google gives me directions :P
<brousch> You need an iphone for it
<cmaloney> Interesting that Ford is a partner
<brousch> It must be an option
<cmaloney> iPhone only = No deal.
<cmaloney> I'm already a little ticked that I have to get a special cable for my VW if I want to hook it up directly.
<cmaloney> Comes with the 30pin connector.
<rick_h_> yep
<brousch> Like a built-in Apple dock?
<cmaloney> Yeah. it's in the glove box
<brousch> ew
<cmaloney> Well, the theory is you'll put your phone in the glove box and use it with their system
<cmaloney> the reality is nobody puts their phone in the glove box on purpose.
<brousch> Ford makes sense as a partner. Why would they extract themselves from MS just to be locked in again?
<rick_h_> yea, it's a bit crazy
<rick_h_> BT ftw
<brousch> Hopefully this kind of thing will be a modular install and you can pick what you want
<cmaloney> brousch: doubtful. It'll be a package.
<cmaloney> You want 4 wheel disc brakes? You'll need the sunroof and Carplay.
<brousch> I always buy used, so my hope is it can be replaced after market
<cmaloney> pfft.
<cmaloney> Good luck with that.
<rick_h_> heh, so ford with have qnx, carplay, and sync?
<cmaloney> Looks like that's the case though I'm not sure what's going on
<brousch> Different models could have different systems
<rick_h_> jack of all trades...master of none
<brousch> Or feel out all of the options to settle on one
<cmaloney> Either that or Apple has moved to QNX for embedded ca systems.
<cmaloney> but that's pretty far-fetched. :)
<cmaloney> and completely wrong afaict.
<brousch> Well it requires an iphone, so the car part could just be a sort of thin client
<rick_h_> not really, there's an array of hardware, drivers, integration with backup cameras/etc
<rick_h_> it can't really be a think client for the phone
<cmaloney> Yeah, if anything it'll be it's own beast.
<cmaloney> You don't want your customers not able to tune in a station because they forgot their phone
<cmaloney> that said, if they do make it a thin client I'll laugh my ass off.
<mrgoodcat> hello
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> Anyone going to the Novi LEGO GermFest 2014?
<rick_h_> no, we went last year but think I'm going to stay home this year
<brousch> We got a flyer for it in the mail, and my kid found it before I could destroy it
<brousch> Having a kid who can read well is not always a plus
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> You said it was insaley busy?
<brousch> insanely
<rick_h_> we got there right when it started so it was nice
<rick_h_> but yea, it got pretty busy, and it's cool, but a bit far to drive and $$ to go to
<rick_h_> it's cool, and we might go next year but it's not an every year thing imo
<brousch> The Grand Rapids Public Museum just opened a new LEGO architecture exhibit Saturday. We tried to go Sunday, but I estimated the line to get in at 2 hours
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> That didn't go over well
<brousch> So we ended up at the Children's Museum
<cmaloney> rick_h_: BTW: The Caribou location that closed by you?
<cmaloney> They're planning a Bean and Tea there.
<cmaloney> We went to the one on 16 and Rochester yesterday.
<cmaloney> Looked nice. The MH location is supposed to open 3/11
<cmaloney> I think they're still working out the kinks though. I got a green tea that was next to undrinkable
<cmaloney> and J's latte was weak for her.
<rick_h_> yay and ugh
<rick_h_> I don't know, now that starbucks has google wifi and they know me there it'll be hard to switch again
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I told JoDee that you were real close to installing their app. She looked horrified. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> but my mifi is getting used a lot less now
<mrgoodcat> i really don't like starbucks
<mrgoodcat> but google wifi is pretty nice
<rick_h_> yea, I was cranky about the change
<rick_h_> but I've got my one drink, and headphones, and now decent wifi
<cmaloney> contentment comes in many forms. :)
<mrgoodcat> wifi is decent at biggby
<mrgoodcat> or at least the one i go to
<rick_h_> I've not found a drink I like there
<rick_h_> but don't go too often, not one around here
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Problem with the biggby by us is it's really cramped
<cmaloney> they converted a Wendy's to a biggby so there's not a lot of seating.
<cmaloney> (John R and 13 mile)
<mrgoodcat> that used to be a wendy's?
<cmaloney> Yep
<mrgoodcat> thats the one i go to
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: hah. Me too.
<mrgoodcat> its on my way to work at 7.5 mile on dequindre
<cmaloney> Right, so the drive thru is decent (if you come in from the back way)
<brousch> Some Biggbys are tiny
<mrgoodcat> i come in from john r but i just drive around the building
<cmaloney> but actually sitting in there for a while can be a bit problematic if they're busy.
<mrgoodcat> recently i've been going inside
<mrgoodcat> the biggbys are nicer in the lansing area
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Early morning might not be too bad
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, that's closer to the mothership iirc.
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> started by MSU students
<cmaloney> sort of like Tim Hortons in Port Huron are amazing because they're closer to the mothership
<mrgoodcat> beaner's coffee
<cmaloney> the one by me is pretty meh
<mrgoodcat> they had to change the name because of a lawsuit
<cmaloney> First time I had Beaners was at Books a Million in Ohio
<brousch> Biggby's French Roast is good, the rest is meh
<cmaloney> yeah, I remember the name change.
<cmaloney> brousch: They have nice candy drinks
<mrgoodcat> yup
<cmaloney> carmel marvel is my poison
<mrgoodcat> if you like sugar you should like biggby
<brousch> True, their cinnamin chai tea latte is good
<mrgoodcat> i get caramel mocha
<brousch> Those fru-fru drinks are like a milk shake
<brousch> And the super Red Eye with 4 shots is what pushed my caffeine over the edge
<mrgoodcat> wow
<mrgoodcat> did you vibrate and glow
<mrgoodcat> ?
<cmaloney> He probably folded space and would up somewhere in the middle of Borculo
<brousch> Gave me Angina. Now I can't drink a cola 2 days in a row
<cmaloney> s/would/wound/
<brousch> cmaloney: My ancestors founded Borculo
<cmaloney> They should have picked a better name
<cmaloney> Sounds like something you'd try to pass off as a Scrabble word when nobody is paying attention
<mrgoodcat> i didn't realize caffeine could give you angina
<brousch> It's a drug. You can OD
<mrgoodcat> damn
<brousch> So I got off caffeine but still sensitive too it
<brousch> rick_h_: apparently there is a requirement that conversations between mentors and students have to be "public". I think this means the IRC should be logged
<brousch> Might want to crack down on PMers
<cmaloney> Or send them to the mailing list.
<brousch> cmaloney: He has a lot of activity on IRC
<rick_h_> samgtr: brousch yea, I've just not gotten a logger setup
<rick_h_> bah
<brousch> hehe
<rick_h_> brousch: but yea
<brousch> I didn't know that until just now
<rick_h_> yea, I've tried to keep things public
<brousch> I had some PM conversations with bookie potential students, mostly trying to get them to move it to #bookie
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I've come to try to crush that
<rick_h_> just as a matter of scaling
<mrgoodcat> everybody thinks if they pm you they will get more individual attention
<mrgoodcat> do you use irssi highlighter?
<cmaloney> I use weechat
<cmaloney> so I get some highlighting
<brousch> Pidgin 4 Lyf!
<mrgoodcat> but you don't get persistent session
<mrgoodcat> if someone mentions you when you aren't on you will never know
<brousch> If someone mentions me when I'm not on I don't give a shit ;)
<brousch> They will either wait until I am on, or email me
<mrgoodcat> but rick_h_ has responsibilities on irc
<mrgoodcat> also, he could set the highlighter to hilight a specific prefix to queue questions about bookie intended for him
<rick_h_> we use it for a team highlight in our work channels
<rick_h_> jujugui and guihelp ring everyone on the team
<rick_h_> jujugui meeting in 10
<rick_h_> etc
<rick_h_> it's common practice
<mrgoodcat> i love the hilighter
<brousch> Ack, meetup is still down due to DDoS
<cmaloney>  wtf? Who decided that was a target?
<greg-g> heh, I find it funny
<mrgoodcat> aren't they cloudflare protected?
<cmaloney> Anyone want a wrist pedometer that isn't internet connected?
<rick_h_> heh, giving up on ye ole casio?
<cmaloney> The Sync, yeah.
<cmaloney> Apparently JoDee doesn't want to wear a brick on her wrist. Who knew?
<cmaloney> So getting her a fitbit zip
<cmaloney> for our 13th engagement anninversary
<cmaloney> (yes, I can rationalize anything. ;) )
<greg-g> cmaloney: whoa, congrats :)
<cmaloney> tx
<cmaloney> We've known each other for 20+ years
<cmaloney> so we were an old married couple before we became an old married couple. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> "I love you, now watch how much excercise you get please" seems a strange combo
<cmaloney> Well, we're also getting a recumbant folding exercise bike
<rick_h_> ah, so it's a general theme
<cmaloney> because Doc said in her sweet Asian accent "you're a fat ass"
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's so we both can get fit.
<brousch> rick_h_: "I have loved the last 20 years with you, so here's a present that will help ensure we both live through the next 20"
<cmaloney> and mostly because I want a walking partner
<greg-g> brousch: nice
<cmaloney> brousch: I like the way you think
<brousch> Ug. Wife is emailing me with tent buying suggestions. It looks like camping will become a regular thing
<greg-g> yay!
<rick_h_> hah, we're heading to macinaw end of may
<rick_h_> come hang out at the camper, sell her of living high
<greg-g> don't go to the dark side!
<greg-g> though, I take that back
<brousch> My brother has a giant camper
<rick_h_> we've got a small one :)
<greg-g> I'd go to the dark side for the next.... 8 years until Rowan can carry his own ;)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You have a transformer
<brousch> It's nice, but a lot of maintenance and money when you consider needing a powerful vehicle for it
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, though this year we've got the goal of getting him biking at the camp grounds and seeing if he can do one mile hikes
<rick_h_> greg-g: lots of trails around campgrounds
<greg-g> rick_h_: cool, yeah
<cmaloney> I'm surprised you don't just stand outside it with a key-fob and hit a button and watch as Camptimus Prime sets himself up
<rick_h_> greg-g: we've been thinking of backpacking off of camper base camps as possible trips as he gets older
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lol
<greg-g> Rowan loves the hiking part. When he was ~8 months old he crawled up half a mile of Muir Woods trail :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hey, we've got a rather low tech one, though my airsteam will come
<brousch> geez!
<rick_h_> nice!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I call dibs on decorating the side of it with "sardines". ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :P
<cmaloney> it's either that or "spam". ;)
<brousch> If I'm camping, I'd prefer a tent. If i need a camper, I'd rather just stay in a hotel
<cmaloney> brousch: Everyone says that until "the incident"
<brousch> cmaloney: True
<brousch> My brother's incident was a week of constant rain in the UP
<cmaloney> yep
<rick_h_> grrrrrr
 * rick_h_ probably should not have sent that...
<cmaloney> That's when you find out that the tent area is below sea-level.
<cmaloney> the logo?
<brousch> That's when I just bite the bullet and get a hotel nearby
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^
<rick_h_> brousch: seriously though, we should find a common campground sometime
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea
<rick_h_> cmaloney: multi tasking too much and getting tired of people that want to get involved but can't read
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's OK. That's how things get resolved.
<brousch> Last year we did an extended family camping trip to Grand Traverse. We borrowed a tent and my brother had his camper. It was good. Then we went to a hotel in Mackinaw City for a few more days
<cmaloney> Maybe he has a better idea
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, he's confused as can be
<rick_h_> and hung up on twitter bootstrap, which I hate...
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Enlightenment comes in mysterious ways
<brousch> Wat?! Everybody loves bootstrap!
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, we did some trip planning this weekend for the year
<cmaloney> sometimes through quiet contemplation. Sometimes with a cricket bat. :)
<rick_h_> H8 BOOTSTRAP!
<cmaloney> No matter the path, the destination is the same.
<cmaloney> (see also: boot to the head)
<cmaloney> OK, I'm twelve
<cmaloney> Someone abbreviated FileApp in this code.
<cmaloney> i snickered.
<greg-g> lol
 * greg-g is also 12
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> :-D
<brousch> Entirely accicental, I'm sure
<greg-g> it was convention!
<greg-g> first letter of first name plus full last name
<brousch> Tent ordered: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TS6WWC/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item
<brousch> Basically the one we borrowed
<rick_h_> whoa, big tent
<rick_h_> how many folks?
<brousch> 3
<brousch> It has a sleeping section, a separated middle section, and a screened porch
<brousch> Could sleep 6 if we wanted to
<rick_h_> wow
<greg-g> a little different style than Carrie and I :)
<brousch> I assume you do what amounts to a bug screen over a sleeping bag
<greg-g> well, that's what I sleep in, they sleep in the ultra-light 2 person
<rick_h_> we've got the 4 person version of http://www.rei.com/product/864960/rei-hobitat-6-tent-special-buy for big trips
<greg-g> I'm in a bivy, they're in the tent
<rick_h_> with the http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Noahs-Tarp-16-16x16-Feet/dp/B009R9FTW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1393865125&sr=1-1&keywords=kelty+tarp
<brousch> greg-g: You're making my skin crawl
<rick_h_> tie off the tarp to the bars on the car and make a lean-to porch area
<rick_h_> or when away from teh car using trees
<greg-g> brousch: depends on the mosquito population :P
<cmaloney> and whether or not greg-g is going commando that night
<rick_h_> yea, we've got something like http://www.amazon.com/Texsport-Saguaro-Bivy-Shelter-Tent/dp/B000IU11MS/ref=sr_1_24?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1393865226&sr=1-24&keywords=coleman+backpacking+tent for backpacking
<brousch> greg-g: Thanks for the reminder. Stocking up on flying bug deterrents
<greg-g> cmaloney: that's an unknown?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Depends on how far away from civilization you are
<greg-g> it does?
<cmaloney> and whether or not the bears will get frightened.
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> Could we camp on the lawn at PyOhio?
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> brousch: Last time students camped out in Ohio it was bad news.
<brousch> With school out we could find a hidden patch of grass and now one would know
<brousch> no one, too
<brousch> Anyone camped in Kentucky? I'm thinking near the caves
<rick_h_> brousch: it's on my wife's list
<greg-g> haven't been to kentucky since we drove through from MO to Nashville
<rick_h_> ok, have to say this is awesome. It's taken a couple of days and some coaching but this is a nice pull request. https://github.com/sammyshj/Bookie/pull/1
<brousch> I went there as a boy scout. It was fun
<brousch> Wow. $20-$30/night. That's dirt cheap, no wonder people camp
<rick_h_> yea, when we go to the local place it's $33 a night and they've got lakes, trails, activities for the kids, etv
<rick_h_> go for a weekend and it's $100. That's movie and dinner night for the family
<rick_h_> of course then there's the $$ on the camper, the touareg...but you're not supposed to add that in
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> Last time I was in Kentucky camping I was sitting on my dad's shoulders.
<rick_h_> brousch: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/03/samsung-announces-new-11-6-and-13-3-arm-powered-chromebooks-with-faux-leather-finish-starting-at-319-99/
<cmaloney> Great, it's the era of beaver-whack for computing
<cmaloney> next year we'll change the tail-lights and grill
<rick_h_> cmaloney: more interesting is the HD 13" version
<rick_h_> get out of the resolution rut
<cmaloney> Yeah, but they're still caught in the chrome keyboard rut no?
<brousch> I don't mind the Chromebook keyboard
<cmaloney> The layout bugs me a hair
<brousch> Response from my wife when I suggested Mammoth Cave: "Â I like the mammoth cave idea except we A. don't know the area /camping with someone who knows the area. B. Bears. C. Scary bears.
<cmaloney> no risk, no reward.
<cmaloney> That said, there's just caves there
<cmaloney> no mammoths.
<cmaloney> They should just call it "big caves"
<cmaloney> but then nobody would show up would they?
<brousch> They need to get a minecraft theme going for them
<brousch> Looking at a Jellystone campground now
<cmaloney> OK, this is starting to freak me out
<cmaloney> Dec: got some order receipts for a guy ordering something from Planet Natural
<cmaloney> Right name, wrong address, email to gmail
<cmaloney> thought that was strange
<rick_h_> brousch: +1 we want to hit one of those up
<rick_h_> brousch: there's a couple up north that look like a lot of kids fun
<cmaloney> just now: got a call to google voice for a greg looking to buy something from Canada.
<cmaloney> some wheat powder shit
<brousch> rick_h_: We might do a weekend at South Haven as a dry-run for the setup http://www.southhavenjellystone.com/
<rick_h_> brousch: very cool
<brousch> Will probably still be ice on Lake MI in April though
<rick_h_> yea, we wanted to get going in april but I've got a lot of travel
<rick_h_> I'm thinking it's probably not a bad idea to wait a bit this sprint
<rick_h_> the plow truck just granted me a nice end of drive pile to clean up yay
<cmaloney> woot
<rick_h_> go march go :/
<brousch> At least we're missing out on this latest snopacalypse
<rick_h_> yea, just got a few more inches
<brousch> rick_h_: PRepare your wallet http://bizopy.com/turing-water-into-wine-with-your-iphone/
<mrgoodcat> alan turing would approve
<greg-g> god, such a douchey video intro
<rick_h_> well it is for iphone users :P
<mrgoodcat> i wonder if it works
<mrgoodcat> it works on android as well apparently
<rick_h_> yea, just going off url :)
<mrgoodcat> 2$ for a bottle of wine though? not so bad
<rick_h_> hmm, this video has me coughing *bull$#@* over and over
<mrgoodcat> if you make 28 bottles that are supposedly 20$ each you make your 500$ back
<greg-g> rick_h_: :)
<mrgoodcat> i can't watch the video at work
<rick_h_> oh good grief...it's a keureg for wine?!
<rick_h_> "just put in our mixing ingredients"
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<greg-g> rick_h_: you know those studies about how there's not correlation between price and quality (as perceived by somolias) when done double blind, right? :)
<greg-g> or wine spectator rating and perceived quality
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, yes I am. But I also know that price isn't just a product of ingredients
<rick_h_> and everyone behaves differently to different tastes
<brousch> rick_h_: So you can get in making your knock-off wine packets early!
<greg-g> right right, but there's a huge amount of market segmentation with wine
<rick_h_> but I'm not exicited about pouring an oz more 'sour' into my wine to reach that flavor I'm looking for
<rick_h_> sure thing
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> anyway, I agree, i doubt this'll produce much of anything beyond the "I've already had 3 glasses of good stuff, I'll drink some of this now"
<rick_h_> "oh noes, I'm out of pinot mix...better order more"
<rick_h_> I'm not even sure if it'll do that
<rick_h_> maybe I've gone wine snob. I love starting to get a feel for regions, wineries, traveling to them and experiencing. It's more than "less calories same great taste as regular coke"
<greg-g> regions?
<greg-g> you can tell regions?
<greg-g> not just varietals/styles?
<rick_h_> well so here's the thing. I'll buy about anything out of the russian river valley region. Just because I've found I like a lot of wines from that region
<greg-g> that's right near us!
<rick_h_> now, if you gave me a glass, and asked me to identify it? no way.
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> maybe if it's something I've had before
<rick_h_> but now when I see a bottle from that region I go 'ooh, my fav'
<rick_h_> there's a bit of a connection
<greg-g> do you use any of those wine rating/notes thingys?
<rick_h_> not at all
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> kinda surprised :)
<rick_h_> but I try out different things. I check the alcohol levels, grape types, region, etc
<rick_h_> and I've so that patz & hall is a great winery. I had a bottle of their stuff in SF at a restuarant. Then joined their wine club
<rick_h_> now when I drink a bottle of their stuff I'm biased. I like these people, I want to go to this winery.
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> anyway, proof of my snobbery exposed :)
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> I'm not interested in keurig coffee in a cup and not interested in mixing pixie sticks together to make wine
<greg-g> heh
<brousch> OMG you're so old!
<rick_h_> I am?
<rick_h_> good, then get off my lawn!
<brousch> You probably shape wood with a chisel and write code with vim too!
<rick_h_> and keep away from my wine!
<rick_h_> lamo
<rick_h_> lmao that is...see I'm so old I went lamo
<mathomastech> Anyone here use Dropbox on an Arch install?
<rick_h_> mathomastech: I have, I think waf might.
<mathomastech> I've got dropbox and nautilus-dropbox installed from AUR. It shows up in my application launcher and I can start the service using dropboxd. When I run ps -A | grep drobox it also shows up as an active processes. However I am not getting any sort of prompt asking for login info, and I am not seeing a dropbox folder in my home/user directory.
<rick_h_> hmm, I run it with sudo dropbox start -i
<rick_h_> I think that brings up the download/install UI
<rick_h_> then I have to move it off of root
<mathomastech> rick_h_: It just hangs when I run that command. No indication it is launching the service
<cmaloney> I don't have a problem with Keurig. I know it's not a great cup of coffee but it's damned convenient
<cmaloney> that said, I'm not really into "adult Kool-aid"
<greg-g> I now do have a problem with Keurig
<greg-g> they're going to add DRM to their machines so you can use third-party refillers
<greg-g> DRM IN YOUR EFFING COFFEE, MAN
<cmaloney> Right. And that will mean I'll never buy a Keurig machine again
<cmaloney> Reminds me of the bullshit that Nintendo tried with the NES
<cmaloney> it was stupid then and it's stupid now
<greg-g> GAME GENIE!
<greg-g> great case
<cmaloney> if I have to root my coffee machine in order to make a cup of coffee there will be hell to pay
<cmaloney> Do NOT fuck with my morning coffee.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> maybe it will run ios
<mrgoodcat> and integrate with your ford fusion
<mrgoodcat> as long as you have an iphone
<cmaloney> greg-g: Oh that's right: you're in MI at the moment aren't you?
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> Chelsea
<cmaloney> man
<cmaloney> so close and yet so far.
<greg-g> I know :/
<wolfger> greg-g: Yeah, I just read about Keurig "2.0" using DRM. Almost makes me want to buy a Keurig now so I can get one without it. Almost. I'll stick with my old Mr. Coffee for large amounts and french press for single servings.
<wolfger> But what's this about wine mix??? Ugh.
<wolfger> I like my wine the old fashioned way... out of a box in the fridge. :-D
<waf> mathomastech: try deleting the directory ~/.dropbox
<waf> that will get rid of any local settings you have
<waf> but then it might re-prompt for your auth details
<cmaloney> http://amirunningxp.com/
<rick_h_> heh
<mathomastech> waf: Just deleted the folder and restarted the computer. No prompt for logging in, though dropbox does start on boot.
<waf> mathomastech: try killing the process, deleting the directory, then starting it manually from the command line via 'dropboxd'
<waf> if that doesn't work, i'd guess it's a bug with dropbox. what version are you running?
<mathomastech> 2.6.13-1  http://aur.archinux.org/packages/dropbox/
<mathomastech> Ok, it recreated .dropbox and process in running but again no prompt. I might try completely removing dropbox and reinstalling it.
<waf> i wouldn't expect that to fix anything, but i guess you can go for it. in errors in /tmp/ ?
<waf> *any errors in /tmp/
<mathomastech> Nopem just an ssh and a systemd file.
<mathomastech> Ahh, reading the comments on the package and looks like its a but that was present in 2.6.12-1
<mathomastech> bug*
<mathomastech> Looks like the workaround is to download an old version, get logged in and synced, then install the new version on top of it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-04
<gamerchick02> hey cmaloney, how loud are the MX Cherry Black switches?
<gamerchick02> or even rick_h_
<cmaloney> They're a little quieter than the browns.
<gamerchick02> i'm looking to get a decent keyboard for work and i don't want to scare people away with a super loud one (blues are right out unless i put massive 0rings on them)
<gamerchick02> oooo
<cmaloney> I can lightly tap on them
<gamerchick02> the browns aren't too loud i don't think
<cmaloney> They're still pretty loud.
<gamerchick02> you like the smooth actuation on them
<cmaloney> But my co-workers haven't strung me up yet.
<gamerchick02> how close are they sitting? i'm in a 4-man cube.
<cmaloney> yeah, although they require a heavy touch
<cmaloney> Much like playing a piano
<gamerchick02> so they're a lot heavier than the browns.
<cmaloney> Yep
<gamerchick02> oh no
<gamerchick02> maybe i should stick with browns then
<cmaloney> Actually, not a Piano. MOre like a synbthesizer
<cmaloney> so there's a little pushback
<cmaloney> but I've become used to it
<cmaloney> brb
<gamerchick02> ok
<cmaloney> fucking hell, I have to reboot my machine to use my fucking microphone
<gamerchick02> ugh. sorry to hear that
<gamerchick02> good luck
<cmaloney> Actually hah ,no I don't. :)
<cmaloney> Neat trick
<cmaloney> pulseaudio -k
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> nice!
<rick_h_> pick squares on when we hit 300 users with bookmarks: https://bmark.us/dashboard
<cmaloney> I pick tomorrow
<cmaloney> EST tomorrow. :)
<rick_h_> heh
<waf> what do i get if i win. and do you validate email addresses.
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> hah, must have bookmarks, that means valid email and goes through signup process
<rick_h_> and no, you can't resign up with +iwannawin@gmail.com
<cmaloney> I have several domains. ;)
<rick_h_> :P
<mrgoodcat> do you log api calls/day?
<mrgoodcat> 298 at midnight btw
<wolfger> Man, when did Firefox become such a resource hog compared to Chrome?
<wolfger> Lately FF has been sucking up over a half gig of RAM. I just opened all the same tabs in Chrome and it's under 200k
<cmaloney> Good morning
<wolfger> OMG. I thought Dilbert was just making this up, but apparently "holacracy" is a real thing (for some value of "real"). http://holacracy.org/how-it-works
<cmaloney> wolfger: Which version of FF? I think there's a difference in how they distribute their memory requirements.
<cmaloney> ie: Chrome is per-process per tab vs. Firefox's monolithic approach
<cmaloney> wolfger: Yeah, I'm not sure how to take that holacracy
<cmaloney> On the one hand I think structures in business can be overdefined and strangling
<cmaloney> on the other hand it has a feel of "we're empowered but I write the checks"
<wolfger> When I first saw the word, I was thinking there was a "holla-back" joke coming. I'm still not sure there isn't one. :-D
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> FF 27.0.1 vs Chrome 33.0.1750.146 m
<wolfger> m for mobile? I dunno
<wolfger> Yes, Chrome has multiple processes even for a single tab, which is annoying. Still, if I total all the processes up, Chrome is still using about 150k to 200k less than FF
<rick_h_> are we seriously taking 200K of ram?
<wolfger> sorry... 200 thousand k
<wolfger> it's 200k of k-ram
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> My laptop has been feeling sluggish lately, and I'm trying to find a culprit. Finding it baffling that FF sucks up a half gig
<brousch> wolfger: Chrome has been annoying me with Reddit on Windows
<brousch> Sometimes using up to 1.9GB
<wolfger> <grumble> I should just go back to Lyxn </grumble>
<wolfger> Lynx*
<rick_h_> hah, /me was using links2 the other day
<wolfger> or possibly just upgrade my laptop's RAM
<rick_h_> how much ram do you have?
<rick_h_> I run both chrome and FF and don't go over 4ish GB of ram. That's with lxc containers, etc. Maybe you need a new window manager :P
<wolfger> Hah.
<wolfger> Yeah, I have way more ram than I'm consuming (6GB)
<wolfger> so I'm sure my problem is elsewhere.
<rick_h_> "268M awesome"
<rick_h_> ssd?
<cmaloney> You might want to also check dmesg. There may be a problem.
<brousch> I got 2 Acer chromebooks. The C710 is older, but I can upgrade it to 16GB RAM and a laptop HD or SSD. The c720 is newer, has 4GB RAM soldered on, and uses a funky type of SSD
<brousch> Most c720s only have 2GB RAM soldered on. The 4GB can only be found second hand and costs $100 more than the 2GB
<jrwren> i'm reading the log from yesterday. this carplay looks awesome.
<jrwren> i've never had a computer with 16GB of ram. I should get one, just for the heck of it.
<brousch> It's funny that a Chromebook is my first computer that supports it
<brousch> Hm, I could put 16GB of RAM on this computer with a 16GB SSD
<jrwren> its kinda crazy.
<jrwren> what uses memory on a chromebook?
<jrwren> or is it just so you can have 1000 tabs open?
<jrwren> does a chromebook run android apps or something?
<brousch> 2GB is just enough to run my usual 10 tabs
<mrgoodcat> 2GB is fine for me
<brousch> 4GB gives me room to install Ubuntu via Crouton and run Minecraft
<jrwren> i think i only have 4GB on this mac.
<jrwren> yup, and it is fine as long as I don't want to run VMs
<brousch> This is not dual boot, this is Xubuntu in a chroot
<mrgoodcat> i could never run vm
<jrwren> so 16GB... I'd feel obligated to crunch data or something
<brousch> Yeah, I have no real need for 16GB
<mrgoodcat> i don't remember what i have in my desktop
<mrgoodcat> but i never use it all
<jrwren> xubuntu in a chromebook chroot?
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: yes
<jrwren> that almost makes me want one :)
<brousch> And you switch back and forth with a key combo like ctrl+shift+Back (a Chromebook keyboard key)
<brousch> https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton
<mrgoodcat> i actually prefer chrubuntu though
<brousch> Bah, might as well get a regular laptop if you want to run regular linux
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> the chroot was a little bit limited
<brousch> I just need it for minecraft
<jrwren> I'm going to send a bookie gsoc email. my name is jay raymond wren. i am a 19th year professional. I know me some pythons. I code sweet shit. I am interested in bookie
<brousch> Using it for development would suck due to the low res screen
<brousch> jrwren: You're not a student!
<jrwren> brousch: i'll always be a student of life and of rick_h_
<mrgoodcat> enroll in online university
<jrwren> i'm taking stanford u online freebee courses.
<mrgoodcat> university of phoenix
<jrwren> no, they are evil.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> t'was a joke anyways
<jrwren> i know :)
<ColonelPanic001> hi Klaudioh
<jrwren> but seriously, hte level of evil of oracle, google, apple, microsoft is a fraction compared to the evil of hte phoenix u
<greg-g> hah
<Klaudioh> hello
<cmaloney> HI Klaudioh
<cmaloney> Udacity and Coursera are my classrooms of Choice
<cmaloney> Though I'm taking a course at Udemy for Game Design.
<Klaudioh> I love Coursera
<ColonelPanic001> I'm doing a Coursera course now
<ColonelPanic001> but it's in Nutrition
<ColonelPanic001> not computery stuff
<cmaloney> That's fine
<ColonelPanic001> but now I know how malnurished I am
<cmaloney> whatever floats your boar.
<cmaloney> (I'm not admitting that was a typo)
<ColonelPanic001> everyone: Klaudioh is a WSU student / student employee in our group with me and _stink_ and etc. Klaudioh: This is everyone. cmaloney is the guy I told you does the creative-commons metal podcast
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: I was hoping it wasn't.
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> New episode release yesterday.
<Klaudioh> haha thanks for introducing me and it's nice to meet you all =]
<cmaloney> Klaudioh: Welcome to our little corner of the Internet.
<ColonelPanic001> I have to get caught up on OMC. Arg. On the other hand, I have tons of it waiting for me, so there's a silver lining.
<cmaloney> Episode 90 is a double-decker.
<ColonelPanic001> just skip the upper deckers.
<jrwren> Klaudioh: my condolences.
<Klaudioh> hahaha
<greg-g> so, gnutls
<jrwren> greg-g: i like openssl :)
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> i feel it gets a bad rep.
<greg-g> from openssl's changelog "Make openssl verify return errors." heh
<greg-g> https://www.openssl.org/news/changelog.html
<greg-g> the gnutls advisory, for those who don't know: http://www.gnutls.org/security.html#GNUTLS-SA-2014-2
<brousch> jrwren: Really? I didn't know Phoenix was evil
<greg-g> very
<jrwren> greg-g: in what ways are gnutls important to you?
<cmaloney> SSL + TLS more than likely?
<greg-g> jrwren: I don't know, it isn't installed on my laptop
<greg-g> lol: https://twitter.com/danbarker/status/439125570115223552
<jrwren> that is the thing, its rarely used.
<jrwren> the only place I have to use gnutls is pycurl is linked against it :(
<jrwren> i should say, pycurl in ubuntu.  pycurl itself can build against either
<jrwren> but I feel like i worked around that.
<cmaloney> greg-g: hah
<rick_h_> jrwren: lol, I'll help you polish up your application
<rick_h_> very cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuNhpass4Y&feature=youtu.be mrgoodcat
<rick_h_> from https://plus.google.com/104358235952874475094/posts/cPmZofCRSA3
<jrwren> lol @ camera up to the screen.
<jrwren> maybe they need a screencap program for mir next.
<rick_h_> hard to do touch based like that
<rick_h_> I guess if you do something where it highlights touch points and such you can do something
<jrwren> yes, i didn't see the touch yet
<cmaloney> http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465264/microsoft-cortana-windows-phone-screenshots
<cmaloney> Why do I see the following scenario:
<cmaloney> "Cortana: where did I park my car?"
<cmaloney> "There are 4 car dealerships in the area with 4 or better stars on Yelp"
<cmaloney> "Cortana: No, where is my car?"
<rick_h_> Cortana?! I mean really? They couldn't think of a better name?
<cmaloney> "Do you need towing assistance?"
<cmaloney> "Cortana: No, I need to find my fucking car"
<cmaloney> "There is a massage parlor on the corner of 4th and Lincoln that specializes in ..."
<cmaloney> "Cortana: How much is a new Android Phone?"
<cmaloney> "Let me check Google. One moment..."
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<greg-g> man, that soundtrack for that mir+chrome video is over the top :)
<jrwren> jeeves is taken.
<jrwren> who is the butler from Batman?
<cmaloney> Alfred. Taken.
<cmaloney> And since they own Halo it makes sense.
<jrwren> I think they could have bought it. The mac program is basically obsolete.
<cmaloney> Don't have to worry about some estate coming in to claim naming rights.
<jrwren> Cortana is just meh bad.  I'd have prefered Clippy.
<cmaloney> and more importantly, back royalties.
<jrwren> "Clippy: where did I park my car?"
<cmaloney> Clippy has a bunch of baggage though
<jrwren> huge baggage
<jrwren> still, better than cortana
<cmaloney> jrwren: "It appears you are trying to locate something"
<cmaloney> jrwren: "Would you like to:"
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> jrwren: "Find your keys"
<cmaloney> jrwren: "Find the nearest bridge to commit suicide"
<cmaloney> jrwren: "eat an apple"
<jrwren> "Clippy: no, said where is my car, I want seppuku"
<cmaloney> jrwren: "You appear to be drunk."
<cmaloney> jrwren: "Here are some hangover remedies: eggs, water, shotgun"
<cmaloney> greg-g: APC = ?
<jrwren> a perfect circle?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah no.
<cmaloney> greg-g: average propensity to consumption?
<jrwren> american power company?
<greg-g> cmaloney: jrwren "Article Processing Fee"
<jrwren> https://gist.github.com/DavyLandman/9351416
<jrwren> so cool.
<jrwren> maybe not as powerful or flexible, but its far more readable than the sslh beast :) https://github.com/yrutschle/sslh/blob/master/sslh-main.c
<cmaloney> greg-g: That's crazy
<greg-g> cmaloney: yep.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: cool video. can't wait until i get to try it
<waf> haha, i have a coworker who is discovering the joys of Eclipse (the ide)
<waf> normally, he curses very rarely
<rick_h_> waf: lol
<waf> but he just sent out this email `It is slow. And it fucking crashes all the fucking time. What the fuck. Fuck. And when I whined about it. I was told: "Yeah. It does that." Fuck.`
<rick_h_> I had someone come into #bookie "How do I get bookie to work with eclipse?"
<rick_h_> I ran away
<waf> i spent the last year or so on eclipse, so there's a bit of schadenfreude going on here.
<brousch> Eclipse is awesome. Eclipse is the best.
<jrwren> hahahahaha.
<jrwren> omg, django middleware is simple. I had no idea it was so simple
<waf> is it just a chain of interceptors? or is it something different?
<jrwren> yes, I guess that is all it is.
<jrwren> only a single member method to implement.
<waf> i always kinda treated django middleware as opaque magic
<cmaloney> waf: Same here.
<waf> then i looked into clojure a bit, and realized that really everything is just functions all the way down
<jrwren> that is true... always
<cmaloney> I need to get into the habit of looking more at Python sourcecode.
<cmaloney> because a) it's sourcecode, and b) documentation can lie. :)
<cmaloney> That and it's kinda neat to see what folks are doing.
<jrwren> that is true of every language, not just python
<cmaloney> Right, but it's distressing to me that I don't take advantage of it more
<jrwren> it should be!
<cmaloney> since Python doesn't directly rely on things like .class or .o crap (.pyc files notwithstanding but they're usally accompanied by the .py files)
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is a sentence fragment and not a complete thought. What did you mean to say?
<waf> made sense to me. he's just saying that python library code is super-accessible
<cmaloney> what waf parsed. ;)
<jrwren> I didn't read it as a continuation. My bad.
<cmaloney> np
<jrwren> i don't care what anyone says, python ain't so bad and is downright great!
<rick_h_> until it pisses us off with some issue and then it sucks!
<jrwren> truth!
<jrwren> but today, I love it :)
<jrwren> python's thread docs suggest that maybe I should not use it and prefer threading? is this true?
<jrwren> i really just want start_new_thread(lambda _,__: ..., (None,None))
<rick_h_> heh, threads are ok as long as it's within reason. Quickly you go to multi process module instead
<jrwren> its all IO bound
<jrwren> i'm asking more about thread module v. threading module
<rick_h_> oh, yea, didn't thread get deprecated?
<rick_h_> go get http://pythonhosted.org//futures/
<rick_h_> the backported module from py3.2
<rick_h_> <3
<jrwren> that is exactly what I want.
<rick_h_> cool
<jrwren>  ThreadPoolExecutor().submit(lambda: cache.set('a', long_running_thing()))
<jrwren> someone should just make a pypi to ubuntu repo system.
<widox> anyone going to KalamazooX this year? http://kalamazoox.org/
<rick_h_> no, I always get tempted as it seems cool
<widox> I feel like someone went last year...
<jrwren> me.
<jrwren> yes, I plan to go.
<widox> jrwren: ah ok. must be good then for a return visit
<jrwren> i liked it.
<jrwren> waf was there too IIRC
<greg-g> looks cool
<greg-g> the videos from last year make it look small
<jrwren> i should have been at every one. I've know Mike for many years, but it is often on the weekend of my daughters birthday.
<jrwren> it is small. its single track.
<jrwren> 100ish people.
<greg-g> cool
<widox> yeah, that's what I was guessing looknig at the pictures from last year
<widox> I like the concept
<greg-g> ditto
<widox> and, only $50!
<ColonelPanic001> Kalamazooks
<jrwren> and last year was awesome because github sponsored an open bar at bells after the conference.
<jrwren> i was sad I had to drive back to AA at a reasonable hour :)
<brousch> jrwren: I've not been there, but the topics seem useless
<brousch> Non-technical
<widox> brousch: haha. did you read the goal of the conf on the main page?
<brousch> widox: Yes. Seems useless
<greg-g> "who needs soft skills" says the anthropology undergrad major
<greg-g> :P
<brousch> Exactly
<jrwren> lol @ useles.
<jrwren> mental note: never hire brousch
<greg-g> lol
<jrwren> 'cept I can't really lol, cuz it is really just sad.
<jrwren> *sad trombone*
<greg-g> rick_h_: you might be interested in this conversation: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project_management_tools/Review/Options
<greg-g> also, it's happening on our public "team practices" which we've explicitly invited other non-WMF people to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/teampractices
<greg-g> (people from Mozilla and Red Hat and a few other places are on there now)
<jrwren> no review board?
<jrwren> damn, how many devs to WMF have?
<greg-g> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff?showall=1
<greg-g> I dind't know of review board
<jrwren> cool page.
<jrwren> well, now you know of reviewboard. I like it.
<greg-g> cool
<jrwren> rbtools is a nice python package for talking too it too.
<rick_h_> reviewboard is cool, I keep wanting to use it for something. Tried to get it into morpace
<rick_h_> greg-g: looking
<greg-g> huh
<rick_h_> huh what?
<greg-g> not as clean of a ui as gerrit, it appears to me
<greg-g> (review board)
<rick_h_> python based, django so easy to hack and support
<greg-g> huh was "that's two recommendations for it"
<rick_h_> I've not used gerrit though
<rick_h_> I've tracked reviewboard dev for a while though
<rick_h_> we just end up using LP, then reitveld, then github
<rick_h_> I think it's a good active project and being django based it's flexible and easy for my head to get around for the most part.
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> gerrit always seemed more complex, java, etc
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> we want to get away from it
<rick_h_> and the few links I've seen to reviews on gerrit I've not found the UX great
<greg-g> we're looking at Phabricator
<greg-g> well, a few of us are
<greg-g> this page represents the bigger org-wide discussion
<rick_h_> wow, well not looked at that in a long long time
<greg-g> we didn't either, it wasn't ready when we first looked (didn't support pre-commit review...)
<rick_h_> yea, that's the biggest thing is wiring it up with CI, for all these tools
<rick_h_> we had to write up our own tool to use github in a decent way
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> we won't use github, for a lot of reasons :)
<greg-g> (see the talk page)
<rick_h_> yea, understood
<rick_h_> check out stridercd for CI as well. It's small but seems cool if you're into nodejs stuff.
<rick_h_> I started to look at it, but we've got a lot more jenkins know-how internally
<greg-g> yeah, same here (re internal knowledge)
<rick_h_> I just wish it had a better backup/restore story
<greg-g> huh
<jrwren> greg-g: you are nuts!  gerrit is vomit compared to review board.
<rick_h_> hand editing fields in a UI for setting up and such is a PITA!
<jrwren> gerrit is a large part of the reason I cannot contribute to openstack.  it is simply too complex.
<greg-g> jrwren: that demo instance looks too ugly to me, gerrit is much clearn (ie: not full of bright colors)
<jrwren> reviewboard is nice and simple.
<greg-g> yeah, it's a pain
<rick_h_> I setup a reviewboard instance back at morpace and it's wasn't bad. It's definitely worse in that demo because all the data is in the stale alarm state.
<rick_h_> I'd expect most of your stuff to not be months old and red
<rick_h_> and it's django so easy to customize the design/templates :)
<rick_h_> once you get past the awful django templates
<jrwren> its django? ha! i had no idea.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> oh come on now... its not aweful. it just jinja2 lite.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> yea, awful
<jrwren> greg-g: really? no gnutls for you?  on ubuntu its linked to libcups2 and libgnome and libgnomevfs :(
<greg-g> jrwren: I was wrong
<greg-g> I looked at gnutls-bin, not libgnutls26
<jrwren> oh, NOW i see your follow up tweet :)
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> hey, I liked your first tweet too. it prompted me to check for myself :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> a learning experience for everyone
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool though, we should do a lococast with cmaloney and chat about tooling and such like that at some point.
<rick_h_> greg-g: would be cool to share the thoughts/process you guys used and what not
<greg-g> definitely!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-05
<cmaloney> id like that
<cmaloney> playing with Juice
<cmaloney> reset my ohone and decided to give it a go
<cmaloney> so far so good
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> juicessh?
<cmaloney> jep
<rick_h_> <3 that ssh client. works great on the tablet with a keyboard. Actually done some work that way.
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> well the sharing the public key via dropbox sold it
<rick_h_> ah nice
<cmaloney> the other thing is having a relatively full keyboard.
<rick_h_> yea, I like the ctrl-alt keys up on the screen
<rick_h_> I use it for irc and can 'alt-4' for changing channels
<cmaloney> yeah, it's definitely a keeper
<rick_h_> damn this GSoC thing is exhausting but exciting
<rick_h_> we're running out of bugs to fix hah
<rick_h_> and they're starting to get into the cool work now
<rick_h_> doing really useful stuff
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h_> we'll have a user stats chart soon and the delete all branch is almost ready to land to fix that issue of importing private stuff on accident
<rick_h_> all from students doing some great stuff. With tests, and documentation
<rick_h_> I've got 2,899 bookmarks. https://bmark.us/api/v1/admin/stats/bmarkcount?api_key=
<cmaloney> That's brilliant
<rick_h_> stick your api_key at the end to see
<cmaloney> I'd love to know why we're getting mdlug stuff on the MUG mailing list.
<rick_h_> I keep wanting to say smoething
<rick_h_> mug is not a shared group and I've got no interest in seeing this stuff
<rick_h_> honestly, I've buried most mug mail because of it
<rick_h_> sorry, with that url you have to change the username as well :/
<cmaloney> I just sent a note to the list.
<cmaloney> oh, nice on the tablet
<rick_h_> thanks for the email
<widox> rick_h_: I love the pull request summary for #326
<widox> Functions in place
<widox> Comment added
<rick_h_> lol
<widox> etc
<widox> lol
<rick_h_> yea, rebased it down for him. It took some mentoring
<widox> oh, and "Fixing things"
<rick_h_> great one
<widox> good stuff
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/commit/a24ec64d42dd2e2fdba6af43eb297bd38b4a9bfc was the one commit that actually hit
<widox> a pretty beefy one still
<rick_h_> yea, it's good stuff. He worked hard across several days to put it all up together.
<rick_h_> he's at the top of the student list so far
<widox> cool
<widox> I can't keep track of what's going on in #bookie
<rick_h_> heh, me either :P
<widox> everytime I peek in there the scrollback is crazy
<rick_h_> and it's my job
<widox> hah
<rick_h_> I feel bad because names have dropped off. I can't keep track of who did what
<rick_h_> hmm, wtf why did it work for me and that request failed
<widox> rick_h_: I broke bmark.us
<rick_h_> and my patience with the lesser students is strained
<rick_h_> widox: yea, see that.
<rick_h_> wonder why it worked for me but not you
<widox> rick_h_: I can totally see that
<rick_h_> ah, I didn't supply dates
<widox> rick_h_: if I leave off the start_date its ok
<rick_h_> bah, ok well branch landed, first bug
<rick_h_> He'll have work to do :)
<widox> rick_h_: I'll file a bug
<rick_h_> widox: cool thanks. THen I don't have to :)
<rick_h_> still, good stuff. It'll be cool to start to add some user stats and such.
<cmaloney> 1544 bookmarks.
<rick_h_> woot
<widox> 1287 here
<mrgoodcat> hello
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Going to go get my blood drawn this morning so enjoying my morning glass of water.
<rick_h_> wheee
<brousch> rick_h_ is going to have his own Indian outsourcing army by the end of GSoC
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha
<rick_h_> bookie takes over the world...
<mrgoodcat> you're going to become the delicious of india
<mrgoodcat> that would actually be really awesome
<mrgoodcat> sell to google. retire to beach.
<brousch> In India
<mrgoodcat> of course. where you have attained celebrity status
<mrgoodcat> cameo appearance in bollywood films
<brousch> Grow 2 extra arms from the pollution
<mrgoodcat> now you're a god
<brousch> cmaloney: I find myself tucking the back of my ankles under the ball today to give me a more chair-like perch
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but that's bad
<rick_h_> I have a foot stool thing to help me stop that
<rick_h_> it's not good to do the tucking, should have the feet square in front of you
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, some days I tuck as well for a little more support.
<cmaloney> but like rick_h_ says, taht's not the way of it.
<cmaloney> This is going to get ugly: Windows XP still has 29% marketshare.
<brousch> Where are the worldwide Ubuntu Installfests?
<brousch> Shuttleworth should be at half-chub promoting such a thing
<cmaloney> Sometimes I wish websites would update more often
<cmaloney> Just signed up for a mailing list so I could "win" a copy of the Yes remastered albums (1967-1987)
<cmaloney> Which would be awesome
<cmaloney> They let me know they'll announce the winners in December.
<cmaloney> Something tells me that's not Dec 2014.
<brousch> Website Copyright 1998
<cmaloney> brousch: No, it's not that bad.
<brousch> Created with FrontPage 97
<cmaloney> jcastro: wb. :)
<jcastro> sorry, this wasn't in my autojoin when I did a reinstall
<cmaloney> We might forgive you. :)
<rick_h_> not likely :P
<jrwren> jcastro: !!! zomg I missed you so much!
<jrwren> jcastro: i went to fanzoo on wednesday, and AGAIN jeff asked about you.
<jrwren> I didn't know you were out of nation. that would have been a good excuse.
<rick_h_> gah, teenage girls at the coffee shop actually telling each other "Oh I just did xxx ell-oh-ell"
<rick_h_> saying out lol in speach is strange
<jcastro> hah
<rick_h_> and I'm an old old man
<jcastro> or you could just, I dunno, laugh  out loud for real
<jrwren> i only say LOLZ outloud sarcastically
<cmaloney> I only guffaw uproariously.
<rick_h_> guffaw, I wonder if any of them would recognize that word
<brousch> I have heard people say "haxor"
<cmaloney> Only one way to find out. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I've said "haxor" out loud, but only ironically, if that helps
<jrwren> anyone know why isc-bind's host links to libxml2?
<rick_h_> I had to do a double take at first: http://blog.trello.com/trello-for-kindle-is-here/
<rick_h_> "wtf why would I want to trello from my kindle"
<brousch> Why wouldn't you?
<rick_h_> because I'm not sure e-ink support drag and drop :P
<rick_h_> I don't think of kindles as tablets, just e-ink readers
<brousch> Ah, I think of them as slightly wonky Android tablets
<mrgoodcat> did CHC start early last week?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yep
<rick_h_> last one of the month starts at 7pm
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> why is that?
<mrgoodcat> just to confuse me?
<rick_h_> pretty much
<rick_h_> because it's nice once a month to have extra hacking time
<mrgoodcat> got it. because i showed up early by chance and you all beat me there
<rick_h_> hah, we'll never let you get there first!
<mrgoodcat> i picked up "learning python the hard way - second edition"
<mrgoodcat> anybody have any experience with that particular book?
<dzho> this is one of the zed shaw things, right?
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the one
<cmaloney> I leafed through it
<cmaloney> Looked OK, but a little basic
<cmaloney> but for someoene who is motivated it should be OK
<jrwren> IIRC its a good book.
<jrwren> used to be free online.
<jrwren> its only tip of the iceberg python
<jrwren> but its a very solid tip and foundation :)
<jrwren> mixing metaphors sucks
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure i like it so far
<mrgoodcat> i think it assumes you've never programmed before
<mrgoodcat> and yes it is zed shaw
<jrwren> he wrote it for never programmed before people.
<jrwren> if you have programmed before, you don't need a python book.
<rick_h_> +1
<jrwren> you need pep8 and pyflakes
<jrwren> and some code reviews
<rick_h_> no python book will really get you into python that well
<rick_h_> I went through a ton of them
<jrwren> as did I
<jrwren> and most of them suck.
<jrwren> at best, you find one that doesn't suck
<jrwren> but none are good
<rick_h_> python is very much a 'JFDI' language
<jrwren> ^^^
<rick_h_> and use others to get feedback on the 'better' ways to do things
<jrwren> what python really needs is an 'Effective Python'
<rick_h_> yea, there have been a couple tries. advanced python, etc
<rick_h_> but none of them beta witing and reviweing code for the same time it'd take you to read the book
<rick_h_> beat vs beta doh
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> its also confused by differing values.
<jrwren> if you are writing something to be widely used, you might want to target many python versions.
<jrwren> which raises a whole anotehr bowl of concerns.
<jrwren> if you are like me, you really only care about 2.7, with the fact that you'll move to 3.4 or 3.4+ someday in the back of your head.
<mrgoodcat> well since i'm starting now doesn't it make sense to begin with 3?
<mrgoodcat> or is 2.7 such an industry standard that i absolutely must learn it?
<rick_h_> start with 3
<rick_h_> you can get close enough with 2.7 and 3.3 or whatever
<rick_h_> but that's my my opinion
<rick_h_> as someone still writing py2 :/
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> how different is it?
<mrgoodcat> will _most_ py2 code run fine in py3 and vice versa?
<rick_h_> from 2.7, it's close. But you have to know the things to do to make it run in both
<mrgoodcat> well then i'm just going to ignore 2 for now
<jrwren> i agree, start with 3.3, adopt 3.4 as soon as it is released.
<jrwren> only worry about 2.x if you have to.
<jrwren> the rules to port code to 2.7 is pretty easy.
<jrwren> going older than 2.7 gets more sketchy, but given 2.6 is unsupported, you should never have to worry about it
<jrwren> and you likely won't have to ever deal with 2.7
<rick_h_> yea, it's actually a good time to get into python
<jrwren> i just live in perptual legacy.
<rick_h_> the last couple of years have been ugh
<jrwren> its a GREAT time.
<jrwren> I would have hated python if I came in in the 2.4 & 2.5 times.
<jrwren> the garbage collection was stupid and crap.
<jrwren> at least now it makes sense.
<jrwren> when 3.4 comes out with async its going to still  be one of the best languages EVER!
<rick_h_> yea, definitely, though I'm more excited when the libraries move to using async
<jrwren> same.
<jrwren> requests using async would be a big deal.
<jrwren> urllib too.
<rick_h_> yes!
<jrwren> its something that was great that .net did when C# got it.
<mrgoodcat> well i'll see you at chc. time for me to go
<rick_h_> yea, with Bookie I care about urllib and wish it was less painful. Deal in urls a lot
<rick_h_> ouch, someone wit hover 4k bookmarks just imported. go celery go
<rick_h_> damn, too many keyboards I can't line up my spaces on any of them today
<rick_h_> with over
<mrgoodcat> does urllib open urls or parse them?
<rick_h_> opens/fetches content
<rick_h_> parsing is breadability
<mrgoodcat> so its basically curl for python
<rick_h_> oh, you mean parse the url into parts?
<jrwren> another strange dynamic link of the day. why does nginx link to libfreetypoe and libpng12 ?
<rick_h_> urllib does some of that, there's different things for it. quote_qs and url_parse can be in odd places. I always have to look them up
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's stats/reporting page? Doesn't nginx have a states control page available?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: no, curl for python is curl for python, aka pycurl. I use that a lot :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: good point.
<mrgoodcat> then why use urllib?
<rick_h_> because pycurl is an external dep, needs to be compiled, doesn't work on all systems, etc
<jrwren> because its built in. pycurl is external module
<mrgoodcat> then why would you use pycurl?
<mrgoodcat> it must exist for a reason
<rick_h_> because it's curl, it's awesome. It supports every damn part of http and more you can want
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13775892/pause-and-resume-downloading-with-pycurl
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> multicurl.
<jrwren> same reasons you might link to libcurl in a C program v. using a socket and writing GET yourself.
<jrwren> cookie handling, ssl auth handling, pycurl does it all :)
<jrwren> if you are just going 1 url get, pycurl is likely overkill.
<jrwren> if you are doing 1000, 1/4 of which to ssl client certificate auth, pycurl really shines :p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-06
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning, but nothing good
<cmaloney> That not good huh?
<cmaloney> Realizing one of the "benefits" of sitting by a window at work: getting to see that bright ball of gas in the sky right in my eyeballs
<rick_h_> having a wife that can talk in her sleep, or say scream "why aren't you running, they're killing you" several times in the night makes for cranky husband
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> I'll take it though
<rick_h_> you moved to a window seat eh?
<rick_h_> very cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm in the cube that they used to use for storage.
<cmaloney> Over where your whiteboard of doom is.
<rick_h_> Oh ok, so by window it's a bit away still, not right by the window wall
<cmaloney> Yeah.
<cmaloney> Will PM you a pic when it finishes uploading
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> rick_h_: So on the plus side at least Erica is trying to save you and not saying "why don't you die you son-of-a-bitch".
<cmaloney> So that's a plus.
<cmaloney> s/don't/won't/
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> and this is why I like rss feeds with cached content. "ooh, interesting article" click it and "page not found"
<rick_h_> ooooh, something up there
<cmaloney> This is why I use rss2email
<cmaloney> Though I'm finding that graphic-heavy RSS feeds (like comics) are a bit of a pain in Mutt.
<rick_h_> yea, I love my text but don't think I could do it in mutt
<cmaloney> It's not awful
<cmaloney> but it does make you realize how much images help walls of text
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> (or conversely how much images hide a lack of text)
<rick_h_> that too
<jrwren> so... I looked at tpp and I like it, but another text markup language? ugh. no matter how trivial?  seems like just using Markdown would have made a lot of sense.
<jrwren> with a few conventions
<cmaloney> I think I'm becoming greg-g
<cmaloney> Picked up Cathedral and Kyuss last night.
<dzho> this is music I take it
<cmaloney> Yep.
<cmaloney> Good music.
<cmaloney> "Doom metal"
<dzho> "pain in the Mutt" haha I see what you did there
<cmaloney> No "the" in there, but I'll accept credit. ;)
<dzho> oh
<dzho> now that you mention it
<dzho> that, kids, is what we call "closure"
<dzho> ART!
<dzho> I've had w3m set in my ~/.mailcap to handle text/html for a while now
<dzho> but I just put "auto_view text/html"
<dzho> in my .muttrc in the last week or so
<cmaloney> Yeah, and that's fine for most mail save for graphics.
<dzho> yeah.
<dzho> I felt I had to do it because our dept is switching to office 365, and other units have already switched, so I'm seeing a lot more mail with only a text/html part
<dzho> and replying to that without auto_view is a problem
<dzho> :(
<rick_h_> cmaloney: are you planning on submitting a talk for pyohio?
<rick_h_> heh, well another bookmark app comes out https://unmark.it/
<cmaloney> Was thinking about it but not 100% what I could cover that would be of interest.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^
<brousch> cmaloney: You can cover all of the bugs rick_h_ left you in his legacy code
<rick_h_> lol "when the bastard leaves"
<widox> rick_h_: odd name choice
<widox> oh, its on GH too
<widox> heh, free option lets you keep 50 total bookmarks O_o
<cmaloney> "Sex, lies, and non-PEP8: the hidden code of rick_h_ "
<rick_h_> noooooooooooooo!
<brousch> YES
<brousch> cmaloney: For when you go cyborg http://phys.org/news/2014-03-robotic-prosthesis-drummer-three-armed-cyborg.html
<jrwren> i must admit - getting better at sed makes me feel a bit dirty :)
<brousch> jrwren: It has made you more attractive, too
<jrwren> I do prefer dirty people to clean people
<cmaloney> Nothing wrong with sed. Sometimes it's all you need
<jrwren> agree.
<jrwren> sometimes it is all you have
<mrgoodcat> i'm getting really frustrated by something extremely stupid
<mrgoodcat> i'm trying to use sys.stdout.write
<mrgoodcat> but i don't want to type out the whole thing
<mrgoodcat> how can i import it so that i only have to type write()?
<rick_h_> from sys.stdout import write as write
<rick_h_> well you don't need the as write
<rick_h_> I was thinking of saving it as something else, nvm
<mrgoodcat> no module named stdout
<mrgoodcat> time to go anyways
<jrwren> from sys import stdout ; write=stdout.write
<jrwren> stdout is the member of teh sys module. it is a file like object so it has a write member on it.
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> It's my experience that if you're writing directly to stdout you're overthinking your problem. :)
<cmaloney> or you haven't discovered logger. :)
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> so you don't printf?
<jrwren> or cout <<
<jrwren> or echo in your bash scripts?
<rick_h_> I typically just print or use logging.
<jrwren> i means printf in C, cout in C++
<cmaloney> jrwren: I mean Python
<cmaloney> Of course I have to use stdout in C and C++. ;)
<jrwren> you don't have to.
<jrwren> why would C and C++ be any different than python with regard to stdout and logging?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I mean I don't have to resort to using sys.stdout to get output. I usually just use print / logging
<jrwren> oh!
<jrwren> i was confuzled
<cmaloney> si. :)
<jrwren> nonsequitor: now that i've used RST for a bit, I can totally see why markdown is more popular and won.
<cmaloney> what do you like better about markdown over RST?
<cmaloney> I find RST is a hair more strict and less finger friendly.
<mrgoodcat> i like markdown
<mrgoodcat> i don't know rst
<rick_h_> I just hate markdown ====== Heading =======
<mrgoodcat> the problem i have with print is the newline character at the end. How do I print without the newline character?
<rick_h_> the rst way of underlining makes so much more sense to me
<rick_h_> why would you not want the newline?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you can put the ===== underneath Heading as well
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: There's a few ways to tackle this
<cmaloney> 1: Build a string in memory using sprintf and then output using print
<cmaloney> use http://stackoverflow.com/questions/493386/how-to-print-in-python-without-newline-or-space
<cmaloney> print('foo'), won't add the newline
<cmaloney> (note the change for Python 3
<mrgoodcat> but it will print a space
<mrgoodcat> i just switched to use python 3 syntax
<mrgoodcat> solved my problem
<cmaloney> yeah, that's probably the better way.
<jrwren> rick_h_: really? you like having to maintain the correct length of ==== both over and under your headings?
<rick_h_> jrwren: meh, it makes sense to me
<jrwren> MD makes SOOO much more sense here. you don't change anything except the title when you change the title.
<cmaloney> jrwren: yypVR
<cmaloney> =
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> assume i'm using sed :p
<jrwren> j/k of course
<jrwren> but RST is just downright mean wiht its errors and what it accepts.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> MD is much more friendly IME
<rick_h_> make lint meh
<cmaloney> Agreed. RST is a bitch with indentation
<cmaloney> and lists.
<rick_h_> how so?
<rick_h_> ::
<rick_h_> block
<jrwren> and where does that :: go?
<cmaloney> lists is what I meant.
<rick_h_> on a line
<jrwren> it has to be indented perfectly and wiht or without the correct newline before and after.
<jrwren> far too strict.
<jrwren> MD much more human
<jrwren> its must like python
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I agree w/ jrwren, and I'm still a fan of RST.
<jrwren> (1,2) == (1,2,)
<jrwren> this is human.
<jrwren> i'm a fan of RST too
<jrwren> I simply prefer MD for most tasks.
<cmaloney> I've had to do some finagling to get my .rst files to compile properly.
<jrwren> if I had complex enough docs, I'd want RST
<jrwren> but I don't.
<cmaloney> Fuck 'em all. Just use LaTeX. ;)
<cmaloney> You had the rest, now use the best.
<jrwren> sadly, that is a bit more expensive to parse
<cmaloney> a bit? :)
<cmaloney> Ruby is a bit expensive to parse
<cmaloney> When I write in LaTeX I feel like Donald Knuth is peering over my shoulder with a ruler, waiting to smack my hand for not being correct enough.
<cmaloney> If I don't get a warning or two out of my document I wonder if I actually ran the right program.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<_stink_> hbox overfull
<_stink_> hbox overfull
<_stink_> hbox overfull
<_stink_> is what i get.
<jcastro> rick_h_, http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/laptops-for-ubuntu-cant-make-up-my-mind/1541/3?u=jorge
<rick_h_> looking
<rick_h_> jcastro: replied...and should have sent my book to the copy editor first heh
<mathomastech> Got some reasonable success getting arch installed on my Macbook Air (2013). Still having some funky wifi issues. In order to connect to Wifi, I need to run "ip link set dev eth0 down" then "netctl start eth0-<profile>". It then connects to the network, but not the internet. If I put the computer to sleep then wake it back up, it will connect to the internet. Any got any insight as to why it behaves
<mathomastech> this way?
<rick_h_> not picking up dns by default?
<rick_h_> dhcp that is
<mathomastech> Doesn't appear to
<rick_h_> and a wake up grabs it
<rick_h_> check out dhclient
<rick_h_> long ago I had to manually run that to pick up dhcp info
<mathomastech> Yep. I've reboot my machine and tested it 4 times. It consistantly does the same thing.
<mathomastech> Ok, that looks promising. I'll test that out. On a related note, I also finally got dropbox working. The AUR package still is broken but wget it directly from dropbox and manually running the daemon works.
<mathomastech> Now I just need to figure out my ruby environment (for jekyll) and my Django setup and I'll finally be up and running on it.
<waf> mathomastech: you can make sure your netctl profile has IP=dhcp in it
<waf> also maybe look at starting/enabling the dhcpd daemon via systemctl
<mrgoodcat> apparently some dumbass forgot to properly set up equipment before plugging it into the WMU network and wiped out all of the campus vlans
<jrwren> the fact that your network is vulnerable to an attack like that is the problem.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: how did it happen?
<mrgoodcat> not quite sure
<mrgoodcat> i'm not there
<mrgoodcat> 14:52 <+typo> tl;dr he forgot to set a value in one piece of equipment, plugged it into the network, and wiped all the VLANS on westerns network
<jrwren> lol, western.
<jrwren> i read WMU as WSU
<jrwren> still, if the network was vulnerable to that, that is pretty bad.
<jrwren> oh, but a net op did it.
<jrwren> so he like set the CDP password or something?
<jrwren> does CDP even have a passwrod?
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure what he did exactly
<mrgoodcat> i used to work there which is how i know this much
<mrgoodcat> but the people i know that still work there aren't being very forthcoming with information
<mrgoodcat> i think most people over there still don't know exactly what happened
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-07
<redacted> why did it happen again?
<gamerchick02> what happened mrgoodcat?
<rick_h_> party party
<gamerchick02> woo party party
<gamerchick02> also woo Amy's getting rid of Razer stuff
<gamerchick02> speaking of, anyone want to buy a DeathAdder and a BlackWidow?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> $75 for the set... separate: $30 for the DeathAdder (retail $70) and $60 for the BlackWidow (retail $100).
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: the network at WMU is having major problems today
<gamerchick02> oh no!
<gamerchick02> that's horrible. :(
<mrgoodcat> one of the net ops screwed up and wiped out all the VLANS and took down the network for the whole university at around 2:30
<mrgoodcat> and the network reset at 7:00 probably as part of fixing it
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> and that makes it hard to do any work, yeah?
<jrwren> gamerchick02: $75 for a set!!? oh how I wish I had $75 to give you
<gamerchick02> well i paid $75 for the board (blue switches, macro keys, no backlighting) and the mouse was on sale too... like $50 i think. not sure
<gamerchick02> they're older models.
<gamerchick02> and if you want them you're welcome to them. $75 is a good price for the set, i think
<gamerchick02> oh and they're CLEAN. i don't eat at my desk at my apartment.
<jrwren> i won't have the money to spend on it for a while and I don't like to drive to oakland county :)
<jrwren> i just wish I did have the money and did like to drive to oakland county, in this case :)
<gamerchick02> well if you have the money and are in oakland county and i still have them and you still want them, we can meet at a Tim Horton's or something.
<gamerchick02> jrwren, you're not in the detroit area, i take it?
<jrwren> Ann Arbor
<gamerchick02> oh dang
<gamerchick02> i'm not in Ann Arbor like ever
<gamerchick02> and i see why you don't come up here. the drive is horrible
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> i do come up occasionally to see family.
<jrwren> next time I do, i'll ping ya to see if you haven't sold 'em.
<jrwren> but i imagine you could sell those pretty quick.
<gamerchick02> i've not advertised much, just told a couple people at work and then in the irc room here
<gamerchick02> i have a flyer but no pics on it. dunno if that makes a difference or not
<gamerchick02> jrwren, do you want me to hold them for you?
<gamerchick02> whoa: http://battle-stations.tumblr.com/
<gamerchick02> hitting the hay. g'night everyone
<cmaloney> Good moring
<cmaloney> I hope your ships are all berthed accordingly.
<cmaloney> (How about this: Good morning)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> had to read that twice
<rick_h_> <3 <3 <3 http://xkcd.com/1339/
<brousch> :P
<cmaloney> What do you guys use for backups? I think rick_h_ uses a Synology NAS correct?
<rick_h_> yep, synology nas + cron'd rsync + dropbox + s3 + replicating across 3 computers
<rick_h_> + github I should say
<cmaloney> Which Synology? 212J?
<brousch> cmaloney: For personal I use crashplan
<cmaloney> rick_h_: About how much are you backing up?
<brousch> Crashplan and Dropbox, with Crashplan excluding anything in Dropbox
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I'm not 100% sure I need crashplan
<brousch> It just works (but requires Java)
<cmaloney> (he said knocking on whatever is in this Ikea desk)
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005YW7OLM/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<rick_h_> cmaloney: so I backup my $HOME on each computer and my wife's machine. Each time I upgrade I create a new directory on the NAS to rsync to, so I've got 5 copies of my x230 for instance.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I've got about 1.3TB on the NAS
<rick_h_> I only have my music on the desktop and back that up
<rick_h_> pics are in flickr
<cmaloney> kk. I'm finding that the 2TB drive I have via USB isn't cutting it anymore
<rick_h_> yea, I've got 3TB in my NAS and it backs up every monday to a USB 3TB
<rick_h_> I upgraded from 2's
<rick_h_> (I've got two drives in mirror)
<cmaloney> right
<rick_h_> at some point I might go to 4's
<rick_h_> but will wait a bit longer still
<brousch> I like the Synology at work
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://uploads.mitechie.com/synology.png
<brousch> I like how rick_h_'s home NAS has 2.5x more storage than my work NAS
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> it's fitting, my desktop probably has 2.5x the ram :P
<rick_h_> I like to have better stuff at home than the office would give
<brousch> Maybe. We are all on ThinkCentre i5s with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSDs now
<rick_h_> hmm, I guess I need bigger SSDs
<rick_h_> but yea, 4x the ram
<brousch> We finally madesome money, so I bought high spec machines in case they have to last 6 years again
<rick_h_> ouch! 6yr?
<rick_h_> "yay we can get LCDs!"
<cmaloney> he
<brousch> We actually had LCDs
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Now they're everyon'e second monitor
<cmaloney> 17"
<rick_h_> "but but my child's toy has better resolution than this work monitor?"
<brousch> 24" 1080P all-in-ones with 19" 1280x1024 seconds
<rick_h_> you will use your 1MP conference camera and enjoy it!
<brousch> I'm actually really happy with the current desktops. The speed is phenominal compared to the 2006-era crap we had
<cmaloney> Well yeah, you finally caught up
<cmaloney> Great, my "Mr Jingles" blocker extension broke this morning
<rick_h_> Mr Jingles blocker extension?
<rick_h_> w...t...f?
<brousch> Why would you block Mr. Jingles? How can he play with your bells if you block him?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I have ADD when it comes to seeing that little bell with a number by it.
<cmaloney> It's like seeing an answering machine with a blinking light
<cmaloney> I have to know what's in there.
<cmaloney> There's someone at work who has her phone voicemail light constantly on
<cmaloney> I want to just go over there and ask her to kindly listen to the message
<cmaloney> I know it's none of my business
<cmaloney> but I would pay her, I swear.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> "Where's my phone?!"
<rick_h_> "You can have it back when you can use it responsibly"
<rick_h_> "Like LISTEN TO YOUR MESSAGES!"
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: my voicemail light is always on... It has this annoying feature that unless I save or delete a voicemail, it is considered "new".  I hate it
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> duct tape, here we come
<DrDaemonEye> Thankfully, people tend not to call me unless the importance is the same level of that as me on fire
<jrwren> i use s3 for backups
<DrDaemonEye> never heard of it
<jrwren> i need to rework it so that its per file instead of a tarball, and gpg each file.
<jrwren> s3?
<DrDaemonEye> yea
<jrwren> AWS S3 - Simple Storage Service
<jrwren> its probably the single largest file storage system in human history
<DrDaemonEye> ah okay
<rick_h_> :)
<DrDaemonEye> I just have access to a few servers scattered around the country that I scp to on a regular basis, so I have not been keeping up with backup systems
<jrwren> its not a backup system.
<DrDaemonEye> I'll have to check it out
<jrwren> its technically an object data store. ;]
<jrwren> i find the distinction rather silly
<DrDaemonEye> heh
<jrwren> i suppose its because it predates everything being cloud.
<jrwren> we'd have just called them cloud file systems.
<DrDaemonEye> cool.  It sounds cloud-like to me
<jrwren> but we need some word to separate it from a filesystem in a disk
<jrwren> it was cloud before cloud was a thing :)
<DrDaemonEye> hehe.  :)
<jrwren> and distributed filesystem came with such baggage, we didn't want to use that word
<jrwren> but that is what it really is
<DrDaemonEye> that it is
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: to be clear, s3 isn't a consumer backup system. its an api for programmers.
<DrDaemonEye> ah okay.  Still, something for me to look into
<brousch> Does JungleDisk still use S3 as its storage?
<brousch> That was the first consumer-grade S3 backup I remember
<cmaloney> I kind of want to stay away from aything non OSS.
<cmaloney> synology is pushing it but I trust them for some strange reason
<jrwren> cmaloney: what about amazon?
<cmaloney> I trust them to be dumb storage
<jrwren> ok
<cmaloney> but I have a little problem with them: a) I don't understand S3 that well, and b) what happens if the check bounces one month?
<cmaloney> Problem A can be solved by using it, so that's a non-issue
<jrwren> yeah, s3 is very easy to use, espeically with boto.
<rick_h_> s3cmd
<jrwren> boto
<brousch> Doesn't Ubuntu have an S3 backup system now?
<rick_h_> (though I don't use that still)
<jrwren> i did not like s3cmd
<rick_h_> no? everyone tells me I should be using that
<cmaloney> brousch: It uses Duplicity which can support a number of backends.
<brousch> Maybe this http://www.duplicati.com/
<jrwren> rick_h_: they are wrong.
<jrwren> rick_h_: these days you should be using awscli.
<rick_h_> ah
<rick_h_> that's the new boto replacement right?
<rick_h_> well, has boto common under it
<jrwren> yes
<rick_h_> yea, I've not played with that yet
<jrwren> its the thing that replaced the java tools. *CHEER*
<rick_h_> and there was much rejoicing
<cmaloney> anything that replaces Java is A-OK in my book
<cmaloney> as long as it's still cross-platform.
<rick_h_> unless it's ruby..then maybe
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Damn you for taking my ultimatium and ruining it
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> ultimatium: what wolverine's lawyer's claws are made of
<jrwren> ruby is still better.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ruby is a PITA at times
<mrgoodcat> ruby++
<jrwren> with java, i don't know how to do anything.
<cmaloney> RVM still makes my teeth hurt
<mrgoodcat> i don't use rvm anymore
<jrwren> rvm isn't that bad.
<mrgoodcat> it's all about chruby now
<jrwren> really?!?
<cmaloney> wget -O chruby-0.3.8.tar.gz https://github.com/postmodern/chruby/archive/v0.3.8.tar.gz
<jrwren> what happened to rbenv?
<mrgoodcat> oh rbenv is nice too
<mrgoodcat> i just use chruby
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'll take packaged java over non-packaged ruby software most of the time :)
<cmaloney> At least it appears to have an install process that doesn't require me to run a shell script from github
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> chruby is just nicer
<jrwren> rick_h_: i've never seen non-packaged ruby.
<cmaloney> I can at least look at it first.
<rick_h_> look, that's standard practice now
<cmaloney> jrwren: rvm
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is packaged.
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is also, mostly bash scripts :p
<mrgoodcat> rbenv depends on shims and weird context switching
<cmaloney> \curl -sSL https://get.rvm.io | bash <- This is not an install
<mrgoodcat> and you have to use rbenv rehash all the time
<cmaloney> This is an attack vector
<jrwren> cmaloney: lol
<mrgoodcat> it even puts a slash in front in case you've overridden curl to not allow this
<cmaloney> That's the kind of thing that comes from people who think it's an awesomeo idea to have irc open any link that pops up in channel
<cmaloney> Man, i"m making all the right typos today.
<jcastro> rick_h_, are you on trusty?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yes
<rick_h_> 3 machines on it
<jcastro> my trackpoint stopped working
<jcastro> pad works fine
<rick_h_> ?!
<jcastro> there's not some funky keycode to turn that on and off accidentally is there?
<rick_h_> not that I know of. Only bios controls
<rick_h_> I use that to turn off the pad
<brousch> Ditch the nips! Pad is the future!
<jrwren> how do you two finger and three finger swipe with a nub?
<rick_h_> jrwren: you use the middle mouse button to scroll
<rick_h_> (two finger)
<jcastro> I have been using the pad for 10 minutes, and I already want to punch someone
<rick_h_> and you use your keybaord shortcuts for swipe
<brousch> barbaric!
<rick_h_> jcastro: when I'm on my air I get angry
<jcastro> swipe? why am I swiping on my laptop?
<jrwren> that is because its a shitty lenovo chinese pad. you need a real bad, from AAPL, american!
<rick_h_> jcastro: because it's the only wayt to change desktops and such
<jcastro> what?
<jcastro> man, kb shortcuts dawg
<rick_h_> jrwren: thinkpad keyboard and trackpoint > apple trackpad
<jrwren> MERCA!
<jrwren> rick_h_: never.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I speak the truth!
<jcastro> I didn't touch my bios but I'm going to go check
<rick_h_> shitty air keyboard
<rick_h_> do you like some mush with your mush
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> Why do you think I make so many typos in here?
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> the frustrating thing is every PC laptop maker is following apple with the keyboard and pad
<jcastro> race to the bottom
<rick_h_> yep
<jcastro> "people must want touchpads the size of aircraft carriers and keys that travel .00001mm, SHIP IT."
 * rick_h_ remembers to see if anyone looked at his discourse reply on the matter
<jcastro> preach it brother, I read it
<jcastro> I will heart your response though
<jrwren> and right there is why discourse fails for me. you have to remember.
<rick_h_> well I think it emails me
<jrwren> then it succeeds!
<rick_h_> but I didn't get an email yet and there's a reply...fail
<jcastro> rick_h_, it won't mail you unless I do @rick PREACH IT!
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> so he's going to go sys76
<rick_h_> that's cool, I wish them all the best
<rick_h_> just don't care for their laptops, not high enough quality
<jcastro> After the last revs of thinkpads
<jcastro> I think the era of laptops is over
<rick_h_> ugh, don't say that
<jcastro> I got a $200 piece of junk chromebook
<rick_h_> (as I type on my desktop)
<jcastro> and it's good enough
<jcastro> I guess I'll buy one of those every year instead of one good laptop that lasts me three. :(
<rick_h_> guess I'll be hugging my 230 for a while. I'll be one of those crazy linux fools 6 years into a laptop
<rick_h_> with the keys wiped and unreadable
<jcastro> man
<cmaloney> and a battery life of 3 minutes
<jcastro> let's hope my trackpoint working is not a hw issue
<cmaloney> $5 says he forgot to put us on auto-join
<rick_h_> I'm afraid to run updates
<jcastro> whew
<jcastro> all set
<jcastro> I think maybe it broke when I was waking up from resume, if it happens again I'll report a bug
<rick_h_> jcastro: ok Im afraid to upgrade
<rick_h_> but welcome back to the civilized world
<jcastro> new kernel last night
<rick_h_> hmm, /me notes to try to upgrade the mac
<jcastro> but everything works fine on the 230, other than the brightness is non adjustable after resume, but I need to find time to report it
<jrwren> cmaloney: if its running linux 3minutes is pretty good bat life.
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> It is the era of the Tablet
<jrwren> its really not
<jrwren> i still say those are consumption devices and that production is still primarily on laptop & desktop
<brousch> It is coming
<brousch> Keyboard is the biggest problem
<cmaloney> brousch: keyboard, storage
<cmaloney> CPU
<cmaloney> battery life if pushed
<brousch> CPU and storage only matter if you're developing locally. You should be doing it in the cloud
<brousch> I think form factors like MS Surface Pro or Lenovo Yoga 2 are the future. Tablet when you want it, keyboard dock when you need it
<jrwren> i feel content is more important than form factor.
<brousch> You mean having a full OS like OSX, Windows, Linux instead of Android/iOS?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> i mean content.
<jrwren> apps
<jrwren> people don't care about OS or filesystems or filemanagers (finder v. explorer)
<brousch> So if your ipad had all the apps you need to do what you want, you'd ditch your laptop?
<rick_h_> yea, it's scary to see moden tech users
<rick_h_> my wife does 99% of her email on a phone
<rick_h_> if it won't work/load on a phone it's dead to her
<rick_h_> the only time she breaks out her laptop is to upload photos from the camera or entering patient notes on her work laptop
<rick_h_> but form factor dictates content
<rick_h_> definitely
<rick_h_> yea, I easily see a chromebook populace with a small percentage of desktops/laptops for the creators
<rick_h_> I think most 'users' would/will
<mrgoodcat> if i have a list a = [1,2,3] and b = [1,4,5], is there a function to only return the values of b that are not in a ([4,5])? or do i need to roll my own function for that?
<rick_h_> look at the set() data type
<rick_h_> it'll do it for you
<mrgoodcat> ty
<brousch> rick_h_: Well if you're creating for Chromebook, you can just do it on a remote server, no laptop required. You will only need a laptop/desktop if you're creating the actual OS
<brousch> Same with Android. You will develop normal Android apps on Android, but need a full computer to develop Android itself (or ROMs)
<mrgoodcat> i already ditched standard laptop in favor of chromebook
<mrgoodcat> but run linux on it
<brousch> mrgoodcat: That doesn't count :P
<mrgoodcat> :)
<mrgoodcat> time for lunch
<jrwren> brousch: no, i need a KB :)
<rick_h_> waf: pebble 2.0 on android now
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h_> and bookie hits 90K
<brousch> Do you have a chart of the stats over time?
<rick_h_> I've got the data, no chart
<rick_h_> I count bookmarks, unique bookmarks, and tags every hour
<brousch> get one of your slaves on it
<brousch> I mean students
<rick_h_> heh, one's working on a chart for per user counts right now
<rick_h_> crap, and another import in the queue. Go celery go
<jrwren> alternatives to protocol buffers. go:
<rick_h_> to google's protobuf or just in general?
<jrwren> in general.
<jrwren> xml too bloated, json has no forward only readers, so those two are out.
<rick_h_> so the goal is to do fast communication between services?
<rick_h_> hmm, does bson have forward readers?
<jrwren> good question
<rick_h_> jrwren: I mean thrift is the big guy in the space. I've heard a lot of good things in proobuf, there's a few alternatives I can't speak intelligently on
<rick_h_> and I'd check out bson as far as a more effecient json if you just need that
<jrwren> thrift is rpc framework no?
<rick_h_> message passing
<rick_h_> at least I believe it's what you're looking for if you're looking at protobuf and such
<jrwren> i see it now.
<jrwren> bummer about thrift is they seem to focus on api & let impls deal with details of getting wire protocol correct
<jrwren> thanks rick_h_
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea sorry I don't have a good answer. I've not really needed these myself
<jrwren> still, its more than I knew.
<jrwren> i thought thrift was something else
<jrwren> am tip: rm -f /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch
<jrwren> on your servers.
<jrwren> is there an option to tell add-apt-repository to not add the source repo?
<cmaloney> http://recursion-band.bandcamp.com/
<greg-g> oh, I was hopeful it was more math rock
<cmaloney> wish granted
<cmaloney> Math hardcore
<greg-g> ok, less hardcore then :P
<cmaloney> Well, "Deathcore"
<cmaloney> Tesseract it ain't.
<cmaloney> but managed to find this on reddit of all places.
<cmaloney> Someone had a "free prog metal" thread
<cmaloney> and went through that list lookig for the CC folks.
<greg-g> many?
<cmaloney> 7-8%
<cmaloney> which is better than what I was expecting
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> Had bands like Depths, Galactic Pegasus and Cloudkicker though
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'm becoming you though. I picked up The Guessing Game by Cathedral
<cmaloney> and Kyuss' last album
<cmaloney> (..and the circus leaves town)
<greg-g> Kyuss!
<cmaloney> Yeah, was a shrinkwrapped promo copy
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> which I found odd and intriguing
<cmaloney> and cheap
<cmaloney> We've been heading downtown for J's class / CHC so I've been able to hit UHF (my pusher of choice)
<cmaloney> Gotta love a place that plays "This is Spinal Tap". :)
<cmaloney> CUPS AND CAKES BITCHES!
<greg-g> :) :)
<greg-g> some day...
<cmaloney> ?
<greg-g> I shall have time to rummage through a used cd store... and listen to my purchases the way they were intended
<greg-g> basically, can I be transported back to undergrad, plz?
<cmaloney> even better: they specialize in Vinyl records.
<greg-g> never got into vinyl/don't have the equipment
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not a huge fan, but they have a decent used / new section
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> put this way: They have more metal than most places
<cmaloney> although the B&N in Royal Oak actually has a metal section
<gamerchick02> so.  cmaloney.  i went to microcenter. guess who's a proud owner of a ducky zero with mx blacks?
<gamerchick02> also rick_h_
<gamerchick02> ya'll are killin me
<gamerchick02> this is smooth as butter. BUTTER
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm still selling the razer
<gamerchick02> no use for blues
<rick_h_> lol
<gamerchick02> blues are too loud
<gamerchick02> but wow yes. harder to press... reminds me of my first keyboard which might have been a model M i'm not sure. the computer was an IBM compatible from GM.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: woot
<rick_h_> I had sore fingers when I first went to a unicomp
<gamerchick02> wow but yeah the zero ain't no shine but it also wasn't $150
<gamerchick02> what switches for that one?
<rick_h_> buclking spring, model m style
<gamerchick02> oh cool
<gamerchick02> i remember i liked the sound
<gamerchick02> and wow these are way different from the browns
<gamerchick02> not sure what i like better, browns or blacks
<gamerchick02> both have merits
<gamerchick02> blacks are smooth as butta and the browns have that nice little click-bump
<gamerchick02> i went with full this time. i'm done buying keyboards right now.
<gamerchick02> who knows anything about the red switches? any lovers out there for MX Reds?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-08
<rick_h_> woot https://scout.wisc.edu/report/2014/0307
<rick_h_> have to scroll down about 70% of the page (Or search for Bookie)
<gamerchick02> that's way cool
<rick_h_> yea, that's two things that have mentioned Bookie that I've just found out by checking analytics
<rick_h_> in the last week
<gamerchick02> you've gotten a lot of activity on the mailing list
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Congrats!
<cmaloney> yeah, the blacks take a while to get used to
<cmaloney> I haven't played with the reds but I  think there are some gaming keyboards with them out there.
<gamerchick02> yeah there are
<gamerchick02> sorry was watching a movie
<gamerchick02> the blacks have a high actuation force that is something to get used to. i want to acclimate my fingers to it and then maybe take it to work. a decent keyboard would be wonderful.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I bought two leopold keyboards: one for home and one for work
<cmaloney> have pretty much the same setup at both workstations
<gamerchick02> i was just wondering if anyone had any experience with them. i hear they're hard to type on because the actuation force is so low and there's no click before you bottom
<gamerchick02> i have this and the max which i might go back to because my fingers are tired. :-P
<gamerchick02> but ducky is awesome. this is a zero which apparently is their entry level board and it's mucho lovely. if this is entry level then what's their premium like?
<gamerchick02> back with browns. way easier to type on right now. i guess i need to build up finger strength or something
<gamerchick02> something about having premium peripherals
<rick_h_> heh, what are we doing at 100k? https://bmark.us/dashboard
<rick_h_> going through 90k darn fast today
<gamerchick02> i dunno
<gamerchick02> free mechanical keyboard for the 100k person? :-P
<rick_h_> i heard you've got a few tp spare?
<gamerchick02> me? selling the razer yeah
<gamerchick02> golly my fingers are tired from using the blacks for a bit
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Heh, I mean afternoon. :)
<DrDaemonEye> afternoon cmaloney
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<gamerchick02> my laundry is almost done. woo exciting
<cmaloney> Bah, just realized I missed the meeting for this month
<cmaloney> thought it was this weekend
<cmaloney> Ah well. Will post some stuff on the mailing list to let folks know what's going on.
<cmaloney> and how to help out. :)
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> yeah i missed it too. sorry
<gamerchick02> oh man i think i want pizza
<rick_h_> party party
<gamerchick02> yeah. forgot how dang good Hungry Howie's pizza was
<rick_h_> :/
<rick_h_> you must have a better local near you then we do
<gamerchick02> it's on Walton and Dexter
<gamerchick02> awesome
<gamerchick02> i got a greek salad too
<gamerchick02> is the one near you awful or something?
<rick_h_> yea, pretty awful pizza
<gamerchick02> hrm
<gamerchick02> its good over here.
<rick_h_> cool
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> but awful pizza makes me sad
<gamerchick02> i am getting sick of jet's tho. they serve it in the caf at work
<gamerchick02> around me i have the following: Howie's, Papa Ramano's, Jet's, Buddy's, and down the way into Rochester there's a Little Caesar's.
<rick_h_> jets is bad
<gamerchick02> jet's isn't too bad but i've had better.
<rick_h_> papa ramanos is ok around here
<gamerchick02> now... best pizza is Papa John's up by my mom's house (chain i mean). best best pizza is from a place called Levi's. they're a bar and they have burgers, pizza, salads, etc. BUT best pizza hands down
<gamerchick02> oh and there's a Cottage Inn over on Opdyke but i don't do the Inn cuz it's kinda expensive
<gamerchick02> by the end of the week i will have manly sausage fingers from typing on this keyboard.
<gamerchick02> blacks are rough
<gamerchick02> switches. switches
<cmaloney> I don't mind jets pizza. They're better than most
<cmaloney> Though we have Perry's Pizza which is amazing.
<cmaloney> I prefer the old Little Caesar's Home Run slice-style pizza
<cmaloney> and Perry's hits that pretty well
<rick_h_> hah
<gamerchick02> Perry's? cool. i've never had them
<gamerchick02> lol @ home run pun. love it
<cmaloney> Yay! Giving a talk at Penguicon about GTD under Linux
<rick_h_> sweet
<gamerchick02> awesome!
<DrDaemonEye> awesome cmaloney!  :)
<gamerchick02> have you perfected the one true method?
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: good point, it's a talk that'll have a few versions
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm doing the "text document method" right now with a todo list that i'm currently ignoring and reading about mechanical keyboards instead
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> Har har
<gamerchick02> har har indeed
<gamerchick02> got 4 things done on my todo list
<gamerchick02> gotta do some filing and crap but that sounds about as fun as dusting a flour factory
<gamerchick02> from Ducky's website under "accessories": "Duckyâs cute and fashionable ducky hanging ornament let you forget the tiredness and keep you happy whole day."
<cmaloney> Which one did you end up picking up?
<gamerchick02> the Zero with black switches
<gamerchick02> full board
<gamerchick02> got it at microcenter
<gamerchick02> that place is DANGEROUS
<cmaloney> http://www.microcenter.com/product/406827/DK2108_Black_Keyboard_with_Black_Switch
<cmaloney> ?
<gamerchick02> worse than a pit full of snakes
<cmaloney> http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/ZERO_DK2108.html?
<gamerchick02> http://www.microcenter.com/product/415795/DK2108S_Keyboard_with_Black_Switch
<cmaloney> Ah, the backlit one.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> didn't see a non-blacklit one. and apparently it comes in ORANGE
<gamerchick02> which was uninformed about but would like
<gamerchick02> no no no. i don't need another keyboard.
<gamerchick02> see what you did to me, cmaloney?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> Not sure I like the branding on the front of the keybaps
<gamerchick02> the spacebar?
<cmaloney> The spacebar, F12,
<cmaloney> also: blame rick_h_. He got me started. :)
<gamerchick02> that's the NK rollover button
<gamerchick02> it's the secondary function of the button. and the branding is only on the spacebar. you could use a different spacebar if it bugged you
<gamerchick02> it's a nice, solid board
<cmaloney> Looks like it
<gamerchick02> if this is their entry level line, what's the shine like?
<cmaloney> Taiwanese board.
<cmaloney> Shinier.
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> more LED combinations
<cmaloney> http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Shine_3_DK9008.html
<cmaloney> That would make me go spare.
<gamerchick02> that was the one i wanted.
<gamerchick02> it's so pretty...
<gamerchick02> and yeah i can see how it'd be annoying. i dunno, i don't mind things like that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-09
<rick_h_> what did I do now?
<rick_h_> although usually I don't mind being blamed
<gamerchick02> you got cmaloney stuck on mechanical keyboards and he got me stuck on them, so it rolls back to you getting me stuck on mechanical keyboards. :-P
<gamerchick02> maybe it was that Razer that was on sale.
<cmaloney> I now have a mad bomber scooting back and forth dropping bombs.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<cmaloney> I hope this is the last time that I ever have to buy Windows.
<cmaloney> Just activated a Windows 7 VM
<cmaloney> $105 + tax.
<greg-g> wow
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yep
<mrgoodcat> whats wrong with microcenter?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you here? i have a question about this test?
<mrgoodcat> guess not. i'll talk tomorrow i guess
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: party party
<cmaloney> Fuck. Day. Light. Saving. Time.
<rick_h_> lol why?
<rick_h_> did you have an 8am apt?
<gamerchick02> agree. but this year is better for me for some odd reason? i don't know?
<gamerchick02> i prefer it lighter in the morning. DST is a conspiracy for night people to make morning people mad. :-P
<mrgoodcat> dst isn't so bad. and i say that as a morning person. don't have to drive to work with the sun in my eyes at least
<gamerchick02> good point, mrgoodcat
<derekv> someone should just fix the earths axis of rotation to be normal to the plane of the sun and any two points on earth orbit
<gamerchick02> i'll tell Superman to get right on that.
<rick_h_> heh, I mean how much mass could it take?
<derekv> it should be done gently and carefully
<derekv> otherwise we could just have the crust mantle all proper and the core still doing whatever it wants
<derekv> i could see that leading to some problems somewhere
<gamerchick02> yeah
<derekv> wow this GSoC thing is nonstop
<rick_h_> derekv: yes....yes it is
<gamerchick02> i put a filter on to keep those out of my inbox
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> fine, be that way and filter Bookie out of your life
<gamerchick02> dude i filter to my computers label and i get to them when i get to them. pings my phone to heck when i don't. :-P
<gamerchick02> like it was off the hook last week at work and i was like "what?!?!"
<gamerchick02> also cmaloney and rick_h_ my fingers aren't as sore today. getting used to the MX Blacks. :)
<derekv> I'm going to try to organize a lunch and learn for my coworkers on "What is functional programming"
<derekv> where i explain monads as simply being monoids in the domain of applicative functors
<derekv> just kidding.
<derekv> plan to start with, everyone has already done it but we can focus on it a bit more, show using first class functions in java/javascript and how they can lead to clear, composibile, declaritive code etc
<derekv> we can focus on it a bit more * for the purposes of learning about FP at least
<rick_h_> cool, sounds like fun
<derekv> then maybe spend the last 25% giving a glimse at what else there might be out there, and the advantages of learning a full blown FP
<derekv> hoping to drum up enough interest to give future lunch and learns and have a handfull of people who want to go further and learn a language or implement some tool
<derekv> also I have this selfish agenda of getting practice giving presentations
<derekv> so i can get tix  to confrences =3
<derekv> we'll see
<ColonelPanic001> glad to see I'm not the only one noticing rick_h_'s mailing list exploding
<derekv> me: hey where's the ipad?  hmm.. last time I used it, last night, i was playing an mp3 stream. OK yep, there it is, still streaming.
<ColonelPanic001> once left music playing while I went to lunch, had taken off my headphones an hour or two before
<ColonelPanic001> came back and had a new last.fm top artist
<derekv> never used last.fm
<derekv> left my phone in the car all day at work last week, it was playing podcasts the whole time without me
<derekv> i felt rejected
<derekv> i was like, did you have a good time, phone? did you have a good time without me playing podcasts?
<derekv> Oh, nothing, I just thought that was something we did together.
<derekv> any recommendation for a dynamic dns service I can use my own domain names with?
<derekv> i think it'd be cool to pay a few bucks if it is a good company and it just works
<derekv> the old one i used to use for years for free got bought and shut down and the new free one I found uses a nonstandard protocol and while the provide something in perl, it'd be nice to use something that just comes out of the package manager like ddclient
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-02
<cmaloney> IT's late enough that I've moved to wine. :)
<cmaloney> Finishing off the remnants of a Pinot Grigio
<cmaloney> and reminding myself that the only white wines I really like are Chardonnays, Reislings, and Piesporters
<cmaloney> And Ice Wine / White Port
<cmaloney> Yeah, I don't recommend the Leopold keyboards anymore because I've had to send mine in for service a few times
<cmaloney> they get chattery
<jrwren> i haven't had a peisporter in a long time.
<gamerchick02> yay wine, keyboards, and coffee
<cmaloney> We'll be starting in 5 minutes
<gamerchick02> yay!
<cmaloney> Hello everyone
<cmaloney> First off: I really hate that lady who has to let everyone know that she likes Masterpiece.
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/913/detail/
<cmaloney> Can I get a quick show of hands for everyone who is here?
<gamerchick02> i'm here. and Downton is on in the background
<cmaloney> Figured as much
<gamerchick02> are you referring to me as the "lady who let's everyone know that she likes Masterpiece"?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> No, I mean the lady  that has to show up on every fucking Masterpiece thing
 * waldo323 shows hands
<gamerchick02> OH the Darlene Shiely or whatever her name is?
<gamerchick02> howdy waldo323
<cmaloney> Yeah, whatever she is.
<cmaloney> Anywho. we only have a few things to cover.
<cmaloney> Namely 1) Penguicon and the Release Party
<gamerchick02> ok
<cmaloney> I've contacted the Penguicon Tech Track to see if we need to get anything special from the Hotel Liaison
<cmaloney> So that should be underway
<gamerchick02> awesome.
<waldo323> more signage for the event would be helpful
<cmaloney> Pfft
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> signs are always a good idea
<cmaloney> That might be helpful though folks do tend to find us.
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's coming up
<cmaloney> so please keep that on your calendar
<cmaloney> Once we have confirmation I'll put it up in the upcoming events.
<cmaloney> Next up: Apparently there's an Ubuntu Online Summit in May
<cmaloney> May 5-7
<cmaloney> Drop that on your calendars and participate accordingly
<cmaloney> That's all I have for now. :)
<cmaloney> Anything else?
<gamerchick02> i've got nothing
<waldo323> Ditto
<gamerchick02> unless anyone has a recommendation for an 11-13 inch cheap laptop that will work with ubuntu
<cmaloney> OK, we'll call the meeting over then. Thank you everyone!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: selling my xps 13 developer edition :) came with ubuntu on it.
<gamerchick02> for real?
<gamerchick02> wow. how much do you want for it?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yea, went back to thinkpad with the new X1, have a few power cords for it and such
<gamerchick02> does it require special drivers?
<gamerchick02> or is everything in the kernal?
<rick_h_> $650, got it in june
<rick_h_> so I reinstalled with 14.10 and didn't have to add anything
<gamerchick02> you, me, and jrwren should meet somewhere and exchange tech.
<gamerchick02> wow that's new then! i thought it was one of the older ones, when they started the dev editions
<rick_h_> CHC every wed night :)
<rick_h_> no, it was a second or third gen developer edition
<gamerchick02> :-D
<rick_h_> high res with teh touch screen and ssd and such
<gamerchick02> nice, so they ironed out a lot of the issues
<gamerchick02> OMG
<rick_h_> just not a thinkpad
<gamerchick02> how's the battery?
<rick_h_> so it's just been sittingon the shelf the last month
<gamerchick02> yeah
<rick_h_> it was good, I don't run the normal unity/etc so I have to manually do the battery power mgt, think I would get 4-6hrs depending
<gamerchick02> oooo
<gamerchick02> if i ran unity, i'd probably get about the same or slightly less?
<rick_h_> I think more
<rick_h_> because it auto dims the screen and such
<rick_h_> where I have a shell script I use to put thing in lower power states/etc
<rick_h_> and don't always run that script/etc
<gamerchick02> wow nice ok.
<gamerchick02> cool
<rick_h_> but you can try it out and see
<gamerchick02> no UFEI and crap to mess with then
<rick_h_> it's got the modern boot loader stuff but it works.
 * rick_h_ isn't up on UFEI sucky stuff?
<gamerchick02> ok. so if i go clean install everything will work straight away and i won't have to muck with wifi.
<gamerchick02> that's what i'm mostly worried about
<rick_h_> yep
<gamerchick02> and UFEI is a HUGE pita
<gamerchick02> from what i've read
<gamerchick02> so let's see, i'd have the mac, the windows desktop, and this if i get one. hah
<rick_h_> well it's the developer edition so came with ubuntu
<gamerchick02> i've got a decent refund coming back so i'd be able to get it (i'd be able to get it anyway but something that i don't have to screw with is +1)
 * rick_h_ types on his system76 desktop, looks to his left at his air for photos, and back to his X1 for work laptop use, then up at the 5 intel nucs, and wonders where that old x230 went off to lol
<rick_h_> cool, let me know and happy to bring it out to CHC and make sure it's got a clean install on it.
<rick_h_> comes with bonus bookie sticker lol
<gamerchick02> LOL rick_h_ you are hilarious!
<gamerchick02> i have a chromebook but i'm trying to dump that off on a friend because it's just what she needs.
<gamerchick02> unless someone in here wants a chromebook to muck about with?
<gamerchick02> we'll see how i feel on wednesday. like i said earlier, i've been insanely exhausted after work lately and i've been going to bed like at 10 on the dot lately.
<gamerchick02> ok thank you for the information. i'm going to watch a bit more of downton and go to bed. work tomorrow, blergh. see everyone later!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> woo woo
<_stink_> yep
<greg-g> I hate going back to work on a Monday after a weekend mostly dominated by a migraine and it's after effects
<cmaloney> Ugh
<greg-g> weekend? what weekend?
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<cmaloney> PyOhio was announced
<cmaloney> Hotel: acquired.
<dzho> any of y'all planning to go to libreplanet?
<cmaloney> No current plans
<cmaloney> you?
<rick_h_> never heard of it
<greg-g> I have a few friends going
<greg-g> I'm not though
<greg-g> joey hess, for one
<dzho> I'm scheming on if and when and how to go
<greg-g> it's a good event, from what I've heard (never been)
<dzho> no pun intended
<cmaloney> model.app.last_ruin <- pretty sure this isn't the model's file. ;)
<gamerchick02> probably not!
<gamerchick02> hey rick_h_ thanks for answering my questions about the XPS today on hangouts. i was typing on my phone so that's why i was slow. :)
 * cmaloney is listening to Pop Will Eat Itself - PWEI Is A Four Letter Word
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: np, sorry I was curt with replies, was on a conference call at the moment
<gamerchick02> oh no i'm sorry i was interrupting you!
<gamerchick02> i figured you were busy
<rick_h_> yea, fire after fire wheeeee
<gamerchick02> sounds like my job! i'm trying to keep the fires to a minimum.
<cmaloney> And the sad realization that this album is old enough to drink.
<gamerchick02> what draws you to the thinkpad instead of the Dell?
<gamerchick02> lol cmaloney
<cmaloney> and is ineligible to stay on its parent's insurance
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: me?
<gamerchick02> so it's 26?
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: yep
<gamerchick02> yeah
<rick_h_> the trackpoint, I just can't seem to like touchpads.
<gamerchick02> oh! ok.
<rick_h_> on the air, the dell, anything
<rick_h_> so back to a trackpoint for me is <3
<gamerchick02> wow one feature that is on the thinkpad. hah. i have a trackpoint thingo on my Zbook but i never use it
<gamerchick02> (for work)
<gamerchick02> i'd never buy a Zbook for myself.
<cmaloney> Zareason?
<gamerchick02> HP CAD laptop
<gamerchick02> tis a beast
<gamerchick02> http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/zbook-15.html
<gamerchick02> i've got the G2 version... the one with the nVidia graphics card
<cmaloney> nice
<gamerchick02> it's HEAVY
<gamerchick02> 6 pounds and the charger is at least 2-3 pounds
<gamerchick02> i carry it in this: http://www.everki.com/products1/backpacks/glide-laptop-backpack-fits-up-to-17-3-detail
<jrwren> when people mark bugs as invalid, do they realize how infuriating it is?
<gamerchick02> probably not. or maybe they do and just want to piss off the devs.
<jrwren> you mean piss of the users.
<jrwren> the dev marked it invalid.
<rick_h_> it's a personal attack upon yourself, you should find out where he lives and take out attack ads on facebook and reddit
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> doxx and swat 'em.  Nah, not my style.
<jrwren> Fork and move on is my style, and I'd normally trash the project to anyone who will listen... but when the project is ubuntu... :(
<jrwren> might be MOTU, not sure.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You should stop reporting invalid bugs. ;)
<cmaloney> (yes, that's one of my pet peeves)
<cmaloney> (along with "This bug is over XX days old and will be automatically closed")
<gamerchick02> the dev marked it invalid? ugh.
<gamerchick02> what about going "hrm, this might be related to this OTHER thing" and then link the two?
 * jrwren says in his lamest squeeky nerd voice "its not an invalid bug. its real!"
<gamerchick02> of course it's real. they wouldn't have reported it if it wasn't!
<jrwren> I reported it.
<jrwren> hence the rage.
<gamerchick02> yes
<gamerchick02> who here uses Hadoop? there's a 50% off on it for oreilly.
<gamerchick02> eee it's apache
<greg-g> we (WMF) have a hadoop cluster
<greg-g> our analytics team uses it
<gamerchick02> it's the deal of the day
<gamerchick02> down to 21.49
<gamerchick02> who came up with "hadoop"? sounds like something someone uttered when they tripped over the server and unplugged it.
<gamerchick02> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920033448.do?code=DEAL&imm_mid=0cdbb3&cmp=em-data-books-videos-product-dod_hadoop_the_definitive_guide_deal use code DEAL
<greg-g> Hadoop was created by Doug Cutting and Mike Cafarella[12] in 2005. Cutting, who was working at Yahoo! at the time,[13] named it after his son's toy elephant.[14]
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Hadoop
<gamerchick02> ah.
<gamerchick02> thank ya. interesting
<gamerchick02> but yes that book might come in handy. feel free to snag and buy and use the coupon code
<gamerchick02_pho> Hey my phone works!
<gamerchick02> LOL it looks like i'm eating pho on my phone
<gamerchick02> i'll fix that
<GC02_phone> Androirc is kinda nice!
<mrgoodcat> i like androirc
<mrgoodcat> but i don't like having to connect every time
<mrgoodcat> i want to be able to see backlog and stuff
<rick_h_> juicessh to irssi running on a server ftw :)
<mrgoodcat> thats what i do :)
<mrgoodcat> or you can set up an irc proxy that saves backlog for you and sends it when you connect
<mrgoodcat> but that's suboptimal
<GC02_phone> True.
<rick_h_> False
<GC02_phone> I guess I could just let it fun all the time..
<GC02_phone> Run. See,  now you get to see what a terrible phone typist I am.
<rick_h_> heh, I don't irc on the phone. Too evil, just my tablet
<rick_h_> and even then I try to do it from the BT keyboard
<rick_h_> nothing worse than trying to have an irc conversation where one person is behind their computer and you're on a mobile device with a trouchscreen keyboard. lose every time
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-03
<gamerchick02> OMG yes
<gamerchick02> same with IM sometimes too
<mrgoodcat> what did i say that was false?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: nothing, just responding to GC02_phone "True."
<rick_h_> it looked like a Python True all nice and caps
<gamerchick02> hah. my phone auto-capitalizes.
<jrwren> my favorite things about hadoop: http://aadrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-than-your-hadoop-cluster.html?utm_content=buffer9f6be&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<jrwren> oh gamerchick left :(
<jrwren> that was mostly for her.
<jrwren> it is weird to have all these variants have a beta1 out, but regular Ubuntu does not. http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/02/27/vivid-vervet-beta-1-released/
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/03/pebble-time-steel-and-smartstraps/
<cmaloney> Very cool
<greg-g> there's this big white thing in my drive way reflecting the sun into my eyes
<greg-g> oh right, it's the RV
<rick_h_> woot
<greg-g> I get to go stand in line today at the DMV :)
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> what did you get?
<cmaloney> Something requiring him to go to the DMV, obviously. :)
<greg-g> a 1983 Lindy 20'
<cmaloney> Can't be an airstream. I don't think they make white. :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: A Lindy? I would have pegged you for a Sprite.
<cmaloney> Wait, you got a 1983 motor home?
<greg-g> yep
<cmaloney> You're insane
<cmaloney> (said in the most loving manner I can muster)
<greg-g> maybe
<brousch> Geez. Does it take leaded gas?
<cmaloney> brousch: at this rate I think it'll get .5 miles per gallon
<_stink_> straight crude oil
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> it's a 5.7L Chevy, gets about 9ish mpg
<greg-g> bbiab, team weekly time
<cmaloney> Well, on the plus side if you travel anywhere remote they'll still know how to work on it
<cmaloney> assuming the mechanic didn't pass away days before.
<cmaloney> This is why I <3 Ting: https://ting.com/blog/why-isnt-ting-picking-up-right-away-when-i-call/
<derekv_> i need some sort of set of libraries to get strated with for clientside js
<cmaloney> stratocaster.js?
<derekv_> that's not even a google result
<cmaloney> see your request. :)
<cmaloney> get strated = stratocaster.
 * derekv_ sighs
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> I'm not aware of what's the new hotness
<cmaloney> or if YUI is still "a thing"
<derekv_> before even that
<derekv_> i'm trying to figure out bower, require.js, project structure, workflow
<derekv_> like what applies and what doesn't
<derekv_> the node.js stuff has really complicated things .  now when I read something, i'm not even sure if i'm looking at node or browser, or if it matters or not
<rick_h_> derekv_: lol welcome to the party
<rick_h_> derekv_: you're supposed to be using https://code.google.com/p/traceur-compiler/ to transpile your ECMA6 code to valid JS while using the new module system and new classes
<rick_h_> derekv_: as for libraries, everyone is into angular (except it's a dead end roadmap and everyone's mad at them), or react (ftw but only for UI bits, not a full library), or just going to the new YUI big tool ember.js
 * brousch cries
<_stink_> thank you for the new word rick_h_
<_stink_> 'transpile'
<_stink_> that does evoke some strange mental pictures
<derekv_> that's an actual thing
<derekv_> although i think it involves some misinterpretation of the meaning of "compile"... it's all just compilation
<derekv_> translating from one format or language to another is compilation, technically
<derekv_> man, screw all this, i'm going to invent my own language and tools.
<derekv_> because, there's too much stuff out there, it's confusing, and I don't want to deal with it.
<brousch> http://xkcd.com/927/
<cmaloney> derekv_: Fantom. ;)
<jrwren> traceur? is that like 6to5?
<derekv_> all i need is a simple scheme dialect supporting dependent types and macros
<derekv_> i'll target llvm, so from there i can do whatever
<derekv_> this can work, i just need to write and IDE first
<jrwren> use brackets?
<derekv_> I don't like the keyboard bindings in OSX so I'm going to create my own OS on top of mach
<jrwren> Aurelia > angular or react :p
<jrwren> derekv_: o-O? does debian still have a Hurd version?  that can be your OS on Mach
<derekv_> jrwren: my philsosphy differs slightly from that RMS so I will not use anything from FSF thanks
<jrwren> derekv_: you don't use linux?
<derekv_> i'm not being sarcastic about anything here at all
<jrwren> use smileys ffs!
<_stink_> haha
<derekv_> everything I tell you is true and serious business
<derekv_> and I use plan9
<cmaloney> I thought we all were using Plan 9?
<jrwren> the plan9 C compiler is superior.
<jrwren> gcc is inferior
<cmaloney> I think that's a whole year's worth of Reddit posts: Why GCC is inferior
<jrwren> cmaloney: really? what sub?
<cmaloney> cprogrammingcirclejerk
<cmaloney> (note: not sure if that exists)
<jrwren> oh! i'm not on a C++ sub. tahnks for the suggesetion.
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/cprogramming
<cmaloney> This one does exist
<jrwren> also, use ACME for everything. it is the best editor ever.
<cmaloney> Now I know you're trolling
<jrwren> /r/cplusplus
<cmaloney> https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/
<jrwren> holy expensive keyboards! http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard.html
<derekv_> i'm still groaning waiting on kinesis to release their new design to beta so i can see a photo
<derekv_> that last sentance came out weird.
<derekv_> i told the dude if he made a true split version of the contour he could name his price
<derekv_> if they take much longer of if it doesn't have true split, maybe i'll just find someone to build me one of these http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, like 6 to 5 with some helpers to make everything work out
<jrwren> rick_h_: sweet! great to know.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, for the gui I want us to start doing native es6 JS but with the required extra compile steps it makes me :(
<rick_h_> turning JS into a compiled language fml
<jrwren> rick_h_: just don't support non-es6 browsers :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Says the person who used to develop on Microsoft. ;)
<rick_h_> hey, IE10 has a super browser now
<rick_h_> maybe finally with full svg support, we can hope at least
<rick_h_> sorry, windows 10
<jrwren> cmaloney: microsoft is sitll the best. I'll trade everything I work on now for C# and VisualStudio, as long as I get to work with teh same people on the same stuff :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: Please report for your complimentary tar and bag of feathers
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahahaha. if only mono had any support on server side linux, it might be really nice.
<cmaloney> Here's hoping Microsoft++ is more Jonathan Schwartz and less Steve Ballmer / Scott McNealy
<derekv_> after a day of beating myself senseless with different js tools libraries frameworks etc, the text here falls just falls really flat
<derekv_> https://www.meteor.com/about
<rick_h_> hah, meteor, still around?
<derekv_> couldn't tell you
<derekv_> reads like a pyramid scheme marketing pitch for developers
<rick_h_> lol
<derekv_> your life used to be hard and boring and going nowhere? dissantified?  that's all changed! join us! work 2 hours a week and drive a bentley! we understand you!
<derekv_> sorry its not that bad =]  just had a fun day getting reacclimated
<jrwren> meteor is definitely still around and kicking
<derekv_> jrwren: to answer your earlier question, I use multiple OS's including linux, including ubuntu... OSX is my main computing platform for a workstation for a little while, I'm itching to build a new workstation for home and will probably run some linux variant on it
<jrwren> derekv_: i was asking because nearly all linux distros use gnu coreutils, hence your nothing FSF troll that I didn't catch.
<jrwren> hrm, hence is the wrong word there. What is the inverstion of hence?
<derekv_> i was being very sarcastic earlier with that whole thing. it was sortof a continuation of a conversation at chc last week
<derekv_> I was talking about how I was having to deal with this system written by a guy who had to reinvent everything
<derekv_> it seems the whole JS community has a little* bit of that going on
<rick_h_> yea, lots of that
<derekv_> *not little
<jrwren> doesn't JS have to reinvent it because it doesn't exist in JS yet?
<jrwren> or do you mean framework of the month?
<derekv_> yea, or like, grunt vs gulp, or whatever
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> grunt, glulp, bower, i don't ge tit.
<rick_h_> JS has to reinvent everything because it doesn't have it, and then it doesn't work the way everyone wants, and it's easier to rewrite than to patch
<jrwren> and why don't you just use make?
<rick_h_> because it's not written in JS
<jrwren> i'd rather write C++ and deal with autotools.
<derekv_> heh, I did a little c programming the other day, did a hw my brother was working on.  i remember how to program c pretty well
<derekv_> what i forgot is that in c, you get nothing
<derekv_> I wanted to split a string
<derekv_> the only thing you get is like strtkn or something, and its terrible
<derekv_> c++ is a little better if you pull in boost etc... which then led me to spending three hours getting boost to work on osx, something that sounds like it should be easy if not already built in
<jrwren> brew install boost.
<jrwren> done.
<jrwren> dunno wtf U were doing.
<derekv_> i don't remember the details... i certainly knew about brew at that time so I'm guessing that didnt' work.
<cmaloney> B00st
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-04
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> hwody.
<gamerchick02> *howdy. typing is my downfall...
<gamerchick02> switched computers.
<gamerchick02> i will let rick_h_ know if i'm going to CHC tomorrow night. let's see how the weather is.
<gamerchick02> that dell looks sweet. :)
<cmaloney> It is
<jrwren> gamerchick02: !
<gamerchick02> !
<gamerchick02> should i bring my click-clack?
<jrwren> i wanted to share with you my favorite hadoop thing: http://aadrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-than-your-hadoop-cluster.html?utm_content=buffer9f6be
<jrwren> gamerchick02: no, I won't make it tomorrow.
<gamerchick02> k. if the weather is shit, then i won't make it. but i will tell rick_h_ as soon as i make that decision.
<gamerchick02> so he's not stuck dragging everything there just for me not to show up.
<gamerchick02> golly the weather was really crap today.
<gamerchick02> and that's super interesting, jrwren. i'm reading it now!
<gamerchick02> you know... i should learn how to do some programming and create my own program to combine and create my own way to do compare reports for work.
<cmaloney> It should be nice outside tomorrow
<gamerchick02> i'm hoping it is. sunny, 35, maybe a breeze...
<gamerchick02> hah.
<cmaloney> And by nice I'm hoping it's nice tomorrow.
<gamerchick02> hah. me too
<gamerchick02> for sure. i ''m tired of the grey and blah
<jrwren> we have had a lot of very sunny days, they have also been bitter cold
<jrwren> it was downright HOT today, by comparison of 2 weeks ago
<gamerchick02> true!!
<rick_h_> party time!
<rick_h_> yea, today wasn't as crap as expected though
<rick_h_> went out a few times today and no issues getting around. Just snow/slushy and not the dreaded ice storm after snow storm apocolypse that wunderground warned me about
<gamerchick02> yeah! well, we did have snow then some freezing rain but all-in-all, not bad.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i'm serious about your dell. i just need to get my patoot into gear and get to CHC (and for some reason Xchat corrected patoot to potato)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: rgr, will listen out for your word and pack it up with the power cords/etc
<gamerchick02> yay. i will hangouts you right after work (for me that's between 4:30 and 5)
<rick_h_> rgr
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> my wife might join us for CHC this week actually.
<cmaloney> I hated shoveling tonight
<cmaloney> rick_h_: orly?
<rick_h_> we've got an in-laws dinner before it at some fancy place I have to wear a jacket to
<cmaloney> woah
<cmaloney> fancy schmancy
<rick_h_> so she's going to try to get the baby-sitter to stay late and we'll both hit up CHC vs driving split
<gamerchick02> ooo rick_h_ another lady. nice.
<rick_h_> yea, her dad wants to go to this fancy place as his birthday thing
<gamerchick02> oooo FANCY
<rick_h_> I'm told "please just put on a tie and coat and don't look at the prices and say anything"
<gamerchick02> hee! enjoy it
<cmaloney> rick_h_: hah
<cmaloney> Where are you headed?
<rick_h_> ummm...whereever I'm told. I don't recall the name
<rick_h_> lark?
<cmaloney> Bloomfield?
<rick_h_> yes, http://thelark.com/
 * rick_h_ looks at menu with fear in his heart
<cmaloney> It's not that bad
<gamerchick02> hey, they probably have good food. and how often do you get to go to a fancy place, eat good food, and have time with the family?
<rick_h_> ummmm, it's looking that bad
<rick_h_> just to the salads
<gamerchick02> i've been to some before and it's fun.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: it's my in-laws, it's never a good thing. plus a tie and coat?!
<rick_h_> but CHC will follow up so yay
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think that's for the full five courses
<cmaloney> so the ribeye is $96 for the salad, dessert, etc.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I just mean look at the salads
<rick_h_> Goatâs Milk Cheese Panna Cotta with Organic Arugula, Winter Citrus, Frosted Pistachios and Blood Orange-Tarragon Dressing
<gamerchick02> that sounds good, actually
<rick_h_> how about, luttuce, tomato, cucumber, and dressing
<rick_h_> kthx :)
<gamerchick02> you're such a guy.
<cmaloney> Goat Cheese = A+
<rick_h_> goats are good for petting zoos for kids
<rick_h_> the end
<gamerchick02> i agree, cmaloney!
<jrwren> shit man, I think you can get the chef tasting at every place in ann arbor for less than those prices.
<jrwren> thelark needs to fly away
<gamerchick02> LOL jrwren
 * rick_h_ google's Haricots Verts
<cmaloney> jrwren: This is Bloomfield Twp
<gamerchick02> oh, if anyone ever goes to Indy, DON'T go to Don Schula's or whatever in the hotel. PRICY AS ALL HELL and not that good.
<jrwren> i promise all the places in AA have salads just as nice or nicer than those.
<rick_h_> oh wtf
<rick_h_> Haricot vert is indeed French for green beans. Haricot meaning beans and vert meaning green.
<jrwren> mmm... reminds me of the salad at dupont grill in DC... nom nom nom
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ask for Pomme Frites
<cmaloney> ;
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> i'm falling off my kitchen chair over here!!
<cmaloney> sorry, pommes frites.
<rick_h_> there you go
<gamerchick02> but yeah, we usually go to one fancy-ass place when we go to Supreme
<rick_h_> well we are heading back to nuremburg. pretty sure I can get pommes frites there
<cmaloney> Belgian Endive & Mache Salad with Roasted Beets, Apple, Walnuts & Sherry Vinaigrette
<gamerchick02> been to a couple really swanky places but then we usually go to a bar of some kind
<cmaloney> Outside of the roasted beets that sounds pretty standard
<gamerchick02> i...
<gamerchick02> yeah that's not my kind of thing. but yeah standard
<gamerchick02> is it all a la carte, rick_h_?
<gamerchick02> because if so, that stinks
<cmaloney> I think it's fo the five course
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: I think you pay for a full meal
<cmaloney> you can get it ala carte though
<gamerchick02> full meal = awesome. a la carte = *sadface*
<cmaloney> and endive / mache are just variants of lettuce
<jrwren> i've never had mache that I know.
<gamerchick02> get something fun, rick_h_!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yes, you have
<cmaloney> It's pretty bog standard at some restaurants
<jrwren> i'm not sure, but I think I'd prefer my beats steamed over roasted.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Candied are OK
<cmaloney> I'm not a fan of beets though
<jrwren> really?
<cmaloney> messy little fuckers
<jrwren> oh, I love me some beets on salad
<jrwren> yeah, great for staining things too
<gamerchick02> i'm not a huge fan of beets either
<cmaloney> but yeah, this looks interesting
<cmaloney> Though I can understand the sticker shock
<gamerchick02> it does. go,  have fun, get something different, rick_h_
<cmaloney> we went to Lelli's on the Green and it was... underwhelming
<gamerchick02> yeah, if you're used to different pricing then it can be a shock.
<rick_h_> I shall report at CHC
<rick_h_> meh, I don't mind paying $$$$ for a good meal once in a while
<gamerchick02> i think i want to come now, if only to see you in a sport coat and get the full report about this place.
<rick_h_> did a couple of nights in london
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Exactly.
<rick_h_> but this is just anti me, coat, not my style, etc.
<rick_h_> so we'll see
<jrwren> i read haddock and thought pollock for a few seconds until the differnce registered.
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> If I can't show up in torn jeans and a T-shirt with a band logo on it then it's their problem, not mine.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Culinary designs by Jackson Pollock
<gamerchick02> you guys need to join a blue lodge, they'll get you all straightened out in no time
<rick_h_> I want to go back to the our team dinner place in london
<rick_h_> great food night
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: If I wanted a uniform I'd join the military.
<gamerchick02> they wear suits
<cmaloney> ^^
<cmaloney> Bad enough work has a dress code
<gamerchick02> eh. not all the time. just for meetings and stuff
<cmaloney> but at least I get two days at home
<gamerchick02> oh don't get me started on the "dress code" at my work. it depends on who you are as to how you're required to dress.
<cmaloney> which I've nicknamed "no pants wed / fri"
<gamerchick02> LOL no pants
<gamerchick02> you could wear a kilt...
<cmaloney> I could, save for there's a Geneva convention against it
<gamerchick02> the only time i worked with no pants was when i was sick and went home and finished the day out at home. stressing that the no pants was when i was AT HOME and i had changed into pjs. :)
<cmaloney> something about the knobby knees and butt-white complexion
<gamerchick02> a geneva convention against you specifically wearing a kilt?
<gamerchick02> oh! yes.
<cmaloney> I rarely wear shorts
 * rick_h_ looks down at his shorts
<cmaloney> If you see me in shorts I'd kindly ask you stop looking in my windows.
<gamerchick02> i would never look in your windows.
<gamerchick02> aren't you cold, rick_h_?
<rick_h_> jrwren: is still my hero for wearing a suit on a flight to his first sprint
<cmaloney> da fuq?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: nope, have a space heater in the office here and the fireplace going when I sit out in the living room
<gamerchick02> ah! nice.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm in a T-shirt and jeans right now
<cmaloney> which is my usual "uniform"
<cmaloney> Maybe a sweater if it's cold outside
<jrwren> rick_h_: might do it in Apr too. depends on weather.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You are insane
<gamerchick02> for work... some sort of khaki pants (actually khaki or black or blue), sweaters right now, polos, button down shirts...
<rick_h_> see, my hero
<cmaloney> I'll bet you shaved too
<jrwren> cmaloney: why?
<cmaloney> a) suit on a plane
<cmaloney> b) suit on a plane
<cmaloney> c) suit on a plane
<cmaloney> also: suit on a plane
<gamerchick02> but a suited gentleman on a plane usually gets more respect than someone in pj pants and a t-shirt.
<gamerchick02> (yes, i saw this when flying to Supreme Session. ugh)
<jrwren> if your best suit isn't the most comfortable thing that you own, then you don't own a good suit :p
<cmaloney> I usually get respect on a plane. It's called looking insane and carrying a crowbar.
<jrwren> that said, my mom got my a sweatshirt for christmas that is very comfy.
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's not the suit, it's the shirt / tie
<jrwren> cmaloney: no tie.
<gamerchick02> LOL cmaloney
<cmaloney> Good God, it must've looked like a brat-pack movie on there.
<gamerchick02> that might get you respect but it might also get you arrested!
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: It's for my zombie-apocalypse LARP
<cmaloney> they let it slide.
<cmaloney> note: not really.
<gamerchick02> HAH
<gamerchick02> tonight has been gold in here. i wish i could be in IRC all day but it's unfortunate that i have to work.
<cmaloney> I love it when I see an album on my HDD that I have NFC where it came from
<cmaloney> Gah, I think this was from the library.
<cmaloney> Whoops.
<cmaloney> Forgot to delete it
<gamerchick02> whoops
<cmaloney> Ah well. I'll pick it up sooner than later
<cmaloney> make myself honest. :)
<cmaloney> Added to Amazon cart.
<_stink_> wow scrollback
<gamerchick02> howdy _stink_
<gamerchick02> yay amazon cart!
<gamerchick02> ok. time for bed almost. yay work tomorrow... or something. see everyone later
<cmaloney> Laterness.
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think that's a script. :)
<rick_h_> pretty much, I've replaced myself with a script
<cmaloney> Which language?
<cmaloney> I think some mornings I've been replaced by Node.js
<cmaloney> and someone is busily trying to rewrite the whole god-damn ecosystem.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i'm planning on coming tonight. :)
<cmaloney> He might be getting ready for his evening
<cmaloney> If not already underway
<gamerchick02> makes sense
<gamerchick02> gotta get dressed and all that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-05
 * widox just got here a little early
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<gamerchick02> howdy.
<_stink_> hello
<_stink_> 40s next week!
<_stink_> degrees
<_stink_> not ounces
<cmaloney> POurin my 40s
<gamerchick02> LOL _stink_
<greg-g> why no 40 party?
<cmaloney> Evening
<dzho> yup
<jrwren> _stink_'s handing out 40s?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw, if anyone knows anyone hiring linux admins (he called himself a a linux systems engineer), it'd be nice if you PMed me. Friend of mine is looking.
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: Detroit area, I assume
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> sorry, I guess that might matter
<ColonelPanic001> detroit area, probably willing to commute a fair bit, though. Think he does Dearborn Heights to Troy or something like that now
<ColonelPanic001> couldn't speak for him there, but it's not like it has to be walking distance, in any case
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: He should drag you to MUG. We do a "Jobs Looking for People" segment
<ColonelPanic001> I have passed that along to him
<ColonelPanic001> thanks, I had forgotten about that
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> We're also talking about Beaglebone
<cmaloney> (this month)
<ColonelPanic001> r
<ColonelPanic001> I assume you just missed that key
<cmaloney> naturally
<rick_h_> morning
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<SneakyPhil> hello
<ColonelPanic001> hi SneakyPhil
<cmaloney> Because, much like a pirate, a bone without an r is sad indeed.
<ColonelPanic001> ^
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw, SneakyPhil is who I was just talking about
<cmaloney> Gathered
<ColonelPanic001> when's the next MUG Meeting? it's not on the site
<jrwren> oooh beaglebone!  what about beagle bone specifically?
<cmaloney> It's always the second Tuesday of the month
<cmaloney> I'll have the announcement up later today.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-06
<gamerchick02> hexchat on mac!!
<gamerchick02> my fave irc program
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney!
<gamerchick02> i've not set up the dell yet.
<gamerchick02> i want to but i didn't want to bring it up to Saginaw along with my other stuff.
<cmaloney> bah
<rick_h_> humbug
<_stink_> ohhhh look what i just found
<_stink_> http://www.pydanny.com/cookie-project-templates-made-easy.html#comment-1004658971
<_stink_> rick_h_: so what's the answer for modern-package-template in python3?
<jrwren> same as py2
<jrwren> maybe port the template to python3 if needed, but it likely isn't needed. python3 isn't THAT different.
<cmaloney> Yeah, not sure what, if anything is different for modern package templte for Py3
<cmaloney> I've been packaging up everything I can for work under MPT
<_stink_> hmm - when i pip install modern-package-tempate inside a virtualenv with python3, PasteScript appears broken
<_stink_> and if i search around, it looks like paste doesn't support python3.
<_stink_> am i wrong?
<jrwren> sounds familiar for some reason.
<_stink_> trying cookiecutter
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh wheeee
<mrgoodcat> any emacs people here?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That good eh?
<rick_h_> isn't gamerchick?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Not sure. I seem to remember devinheitmueller was but I might be making stuff up
<mrgoodcat> i was gonna try to learn emacs basics, but the tutorial is gonna break my fingers
<_stink_> i was but then my fingers fell off
<mrgoodcat> so many ctrl+alt
<_stink_> i did use it in grad school
<mrgoodcat> i was gonna ask how emacs people deal with that
<cmaloney> yeah, that and I didn't like how you basicall had to learn lisp to configure it
<rick_h_> yea, I wanted to be a true geek and even got two emacs books
<_stink_> i pretty much only remember ctrl-x ctrl-s
<rick_h_> and gave up and decided to be the best vim user I could be
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: it started because i'm learning lisp
<mrgoodcat> so thats not a problem
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It's a great test-bed for lisp
<mrgoodcat> that's what i heard
<cmaloney> as an editor it makes me cry.
<mrgoodcat> heh
<_stink_> rick_h_: it looks like modern-package-template doesn't work in python3... is this true?  if so, do you have a recommendatio nfor a similar thing in python3?
<cmaloney> _stink_: Just fix paster. :)
<cmaloney> That should be an afternoon. ;)
<jrwren> surely you remember ctrl-e and ctrl-a too?
<SneakyPhil> rick_h_: haaha
<rick_h_> _stink_: cookiecutter
<rick_h_> _stink_: what we've moved to
<rick_h_> jrwren: nope, by moving to vim in zsh I never have to use emacs style controls
<cmaloney> jrwren: bash has vi-style keybindings
<jrwren> rick_h_: HARDCORE! :)
<cmaloney> I finally made the plunge
<jrwren> cmaloney: yes. I used them for all of 10min once.
<rick_h_> jrwren: even use 'jj' to 'esc' in zsh and vim <3
<cmaloney> jrwren: I was the same way. Persevere. :)
<_stink_> cmaloney: yeah, geez, no thanks
<devinheitmueller> cmaloney: hey.
<rick_h_> zsh has much better vim mode imo
<_stink_> rick_h_: ok great, that's what i settled on last night.  thanks!
<rick_h_> _stink_: <3
<SneakyPhil> rick_h_: do you use zsh locally and the default shell on your boxes?
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, Iâm an emacs user, but despite having used it for almost 20 years I still only use a handful of commands.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i don't know if it is perseverence if it is glorious at the same time.
<cmaloney> devinheitmueller: I think that's true of most.
<rick_h_> SneakyPhil: yea, I use zsh on all my boxes
<_stink_> jrwren: oh yeah i do remember those... but i think of them as bashy, not emacsy :P
<_stink_> this is surely heresy.
<rick_h_> the only place it's not the default is on a shared server with the team and I'm |--| close to changing it
<jrwren> _stink_: yeah, they are emacs. emacs is so powerful it bleeds into bash and macosx input boxes :p
<devinheitmueller> At least on bash you can reconfigure the command line hotkeys to use vi conventions rather than the default of emacs.
<devinheitmueller> That said, most people know stuff like ctrl-a and ctrl-e because of bash.
<cmaloney> That's how I learned it
<devinheitmueller> Thinking of scripting, anybody know any junior engineers looking to do some contract work?
<devinheitmueller> I want to setup an automation rig for test LinuxTV drivers (using codespeed), so I need somebody to setup a web server, install codespeed and do some scripting to write test cases.
<devinheitmueller> Iâm also looking at Tapper (http://tapper.github.io/Tapper/), which has the ability to output to codespeed.    Mainly Iâm looking to do a combination to compliance and performance tests on a regular interval across multiple devices and have a reasonable web UI for analyzing the results.
<cmaloney> Sounds interesting
<devinheitmueller> None of it is rocket science.  Itâs the sort of thing in the past Iâve hired a kid straight of college to do (assuming he knows UNIX scripting).  That said, it just isnât cost effective to do it myself.
<cmaloney> yeah, it's a lot of grunt-work
<devinheitmueller> Oh, hereâs the codespeed project URL in case anybody is interested:  https://github.com/tobami/codespeed
<devinheitmueller> Neat little project, used by a number of other projects for benchmarking:  âKnown to be used by PyPy, Twisted, RubySpec and many more."
<cmaloney> bookmarked
<devinheitmueller> Itâs got links to the sites setup by those projects, if you want to get a feel for the UI.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I _almost_ got jsivak using Bookie
<rick_h_> cmaloney: lol
<cmaloney> I swearh his bookmarking / scrapbooking configuration just screams Bookie
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, I don't know. he might just crush things
<cmaloney> I'm sure half of his bookmarks are 404 anyway
 * rick_h_ shakes fist at UPS! "Delay in delivery due to weather or natural disaster"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What are they ransoming?
<rick_h_> I prime overnight'd a camera because I wanted to take it on our zoo trip this weekend
<cmaloney> You know that never works out
<jrwren> oooh... pypy <3
<brousch> Another camera?!
<rick_h_> technically on wed, but it was late so turned into thurs ship for friday
<jrwren> pypy is the greatest thing that no one talks about.
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, it's been a year since my last one :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1
<rick_h_> jrwren: though they don't do a ton of talking to be honest expect on their 'failures' as they work on things like numpy
<jrwren> rick_h_: yup. and it is a hump to get to for sure. certain c modules have to be worked around, usually the DB provider you are using if you are doing web stuff.
<rick_h_> yep
<jrwren> but once you get over that hump, on man, python isn't slow.
<rick_h_> though most of the db drives have some sort of pure python drive these days, mostly for async love but side effect is it helps pypy
<jrwren> It is so good that you'd never use another GC langauge for speed reasons. its as fast or faster than java, go, .net, D, rust.   pypy is awesome.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: what camera?
<jrwren> rick_h_: yup. we found some psycopg2 pure python compat port which worked well.
<rick_h_> jrwren: cool yea
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oly em5 mk2
<mrgoodcat> nice
<mrgoodcat> what are you using these days?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: pany gx7
<mrgoodcat> since obviously your olympus is delayed
<mrgoodcat> i've never had a panasonic
<rick_h_> it's nice and done me well the last year
<mrgoodcat> really enjoying my sony
<rick_h_> but the new oly has me sold on the in body stabilization and I find I like oly lenses a lot since they're smaller since they don't need OIS in them
<rick_h_> yea, I like the idea of the sony, but it's a chunk larger and my big thing is a travel camera for work that I can take on planes/trips
<rick_h_> and the m4/3 lenses are so many more and nice
<mrgoodcat> oh yea its not really a travel cam
<mrgoodcat> i even have a second grip on it
<rick_h_> assuming you mean like a a7 aor such
<mrgoodcat> so its really big
<mrgoodcat> a700
<rick_h_> ah
<mrgoodcat> i have an a57 for travel
<mrgoodcat> which is a bit smaller
<mrgoodcat> and does HD video
<rick_h_> I almost went to the new a7 2
<mrgoodcat> i almost had money
<rick_h_> with its IBIS
<gamerchick02> i didn't know you guys were into photography. cool.
<mrgoodcat> for that
<mrgoodcat> i'm a photography wannabe mostly
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/ scroll and scrolls wheeee
<rick_h_> yea, it's a nice hobby I can do while I work
<mrgoodcat> my stuff isn't online
<mrgoodcat> not publicly anyways
<rick_h_> ah, I put most of my stuff up from trips/etc
<mrgoodcat> i'm shy about artwork
<rick_h_> especially since most of my stuff is more travel/street stuff
<rick_h_> even my studio practice stuff so you can stare at my bald head 50+ times https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157649833725800/
<gamerchick02> rick_h_, nice pictures. really
<rick_h_> as I practice with flash, umbrella, and such
<mrgoodcat> i don't have studio equipment
<mrgoodcat> haven't done any studio work since high school
<rick_h_> I just picked up some flash and a portable softbox and such as my christmas gift this year
<rick_h_> and need to play with it some more, only done a couple of practice sessions with it
<mrgoodcat> cool
<cmaloney> I still need to make a plugin for a CI that replaces the thunderstorm clouds with angry rick_h_
<gamerchick02> oooo
<mrgoodcat> i have a lightbox but its a bit small to put a person in
<mrgoodcat> heh
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/16065134079/in/set-72157649833725800
<cmaloney> "Your test have failed and do not pass PEP8. Correct yourself."
<gamerchick02> perfect caption
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/16063747140/in/set-72157649833725800
<cmaloney> "You have committed Java to the repo."
<rick_h_> lol
<gamerchick02> LOL
 * gamerchick02 falls off chair
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/15628883914/in/set-72157649833725800
<cmaloney> "I'm about to remove your commit bit"
<gamerchick02> OT, rick_h_ i think i'm going to name the new computer humboldt. after the Humboldt penguin. not the squid.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: nice
<gamerchick02> i have a penguin theme for all my computers (desktop is Emperor, macbook is rockhopper, and my wireless is named Igloo)
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Very cool
 * gamerchick02 is such a huge nerd
<cmaloney> Mine are named after Red Drawf characters
<cmaloney> penguins are not thata nerdy.
<cmaloney> apparently I'm now channeling Mario
<gamerchick02> "itsa Me, Mario!"
<gamerchick02> lol
<cmaloney> Worst stereotype in videogames ever.
<gamerchick02> penguins are pretty awesome. did you know that there were HUGE prehistoric penguins?
<gamerchick02> i agree though, about the stereotype
<cmaloney> That's because Penguins are badass
<jrwren> cmaloney: I think rick would be even more scary than that if there were java in the repo. I know I would
<cmaloney> jrwren: Working with the material I have.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Pretty sure there would be a paddling.
<gamerchick02> uhm.
<gamerchick02> note to self, do not commit Java to the repo. (not that i ever would)
<jrwren> cmaloney: team was none to happy when I tried to sneak in 20 lines of perl. :)
<gamerchick02> committing Java sounds like "committing seppuku" or something
<gamerchick02> "but you don't like my perls of wisdom" *badum tiss*
 * gamerchick02 bows. i'll be here all day
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't blame them. With 20 lines of Perl you could rewrite the human genome
<cmaloney> jrwren: mankind is not ready for that kind of awesome responsibility.
<jrwren> cmaloney: funny you mention it. I think I used perl to do some bioinformatics on part of the human genome 10+yrs ago.
<cmaloney> See?
<ColonelPanic001> Penguins don't live in igloos
<SneakyPhil> lol
<ColonelPanic001> Sorry. Lag.
<gamerchick02> no they don't. but i picked my wireless name and then was like "whoops". so i stuck with it. should be iceberg
<gamerchick02> and hi hi ColonelPanic001 long time no see
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<gamerchick02> i'm off work today. yay!
<ColonelPanic001> the best way to start a day
<gamerchick02> :) yes. that and coffee.
<gamerchick02> i'm going to a concert tonight and theoretically i could have worked but... i didn't want to. hah
<ColonelPanic001> that's all the reason that's needed
<gamerchick02> :-D
<cmaloney> http://metalinjection.fm
<cmaloney> ^^ Clothe your ears in metal. :)
<mrgoodcat> has anybody set up filevault on a fresh MBP recently?
<greg-g> ok, so, every time I think "I should just whip up a quick python script to do this, there's already a library for that services API that looks nice." I end up not doing it because I remember bad experiences with venvs, system-installed versus user vs local libraries and having a hard time getting a program to run on a different machine due to mismatching versions
<greg-g> what should I follow to Do It Right(TM)?
<greg-g> opinionated opinions highly welcome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-07
<jrwren> greg-g: i'm gonna be opposite of rick_h_ and say - don't use venvs. use debs :)
<jrwren> greg-g: so yeah, just whip up python use python system packages from ubuntu.
<jrwren> greg-g: you on debian? then I can't help :p
<jrwren> greg-g: ubuntu has nice python packages, and if it is missing 1 or 2, I can usually package them up in no time.
<cmaloney> evening
<cmaloney> venvs atre awesome
<cmaloney> some commands i write a wrapper to execute
<jrwren> venvs are a crutch for the weak :p
<greg-g> jrwren: cmaloney this is what another buddy recommended: http://paste.debian.net/160032/
<greg-g> venv's, basically
<greg-g> he followed up with:
<greg-g> 00:50 < paulprote> If you want a less heavy-handed way, but similarly  effective and more standard, you can make a 'setup.py'  that lists the packages *without* version numbers, and  './bin/pip install --editable . ' and 'bin/pip freeze  > requirements.txt'
<greg-g> 00:50 < paulprote> Yeah I think that's better but now I have confused you  by making two suggestions oops.
<jrwren> greg-g: so... why would you do that if your goal is to whip up a quick python script.
<jrwren> greg-g: if you are starting some big ass project, sure.
<jrwren> but if you are just whipping some up script????
<greg-g> use case: writing a report generator from our phabricator install
<greg-g> it might evolve over time, but yeah, light weight mostly
<greg-g> the annoying bit before was when i switched from one laptop to another and it didn't work due to missing dependencies etc (ubuntu vs debian)
<greg-g> (and I want others to maybe use it, others in our org, that is)
<_stink_> i always make a virtualenv for a new thing, no matter the size.
<_stink_> jrwren: take that!
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> i do keep a generic virtualenv with ipython and requests, maybe simplejson installed for testing and such
<jrwren> i used to, then i realized, I was being stupid.
<_stink_> that i *might* use for really simple stuff
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> greg-g: so... sharing python code sucks becuase all your uses will either need to create a venv and install all the deps, or install all the system deps.
<greg-g> jrwren: isn't that what the ./bin/pip install -r requirements.txt step does for them?
<greg-g> doesn't that make it easy for them to get the right dependencies?
<jrwren> greg-g: yes
<jrwren> for some def of "easy"
 * greg-g is honstly trying to figure it out
<jrwren> if you use any modules which are C, then you also need a build env and any c libs that those modules need.
<jrwren> it can be a pain compared ot "just apt-get install these pkgs"
<greg-g> I doubt C will come into my little report generator :)
<greg-g> sure
<jrwren> dunno.
<jrwren> gonna use a DB?
<jrwren> psycopg2? :)
<greg-g> nope, it's a one time run thing
<_stink_> another reason i like virtualenvs every time is because i frequently run old LTS installs, and i can get new libs from pypi
<greg-g> the main dependency: https://github.com/disqus/python-phabricator
<greg-g> alright, almost to my bus stop, thanks you two
<greg-g> friday starts.... now.
<jrwren> gl
 * _stink_ puts on the techno
<jrwren> apt-cache search says greg-g will be using venvs and pip :)
<_stink_> hehe
<rick_h_> greg-g: so it depends on what this is for. if it's something you use on your system a lot I just sudo pip install
<rick_h_> greg-g: so httpie, some python tools for vim, etc I always just system install
<rick_h_> greg-g: if it's something more experimental then yea, I'll venv it in ~/src/xxx
<rick_h_> greg-g: and if it's really big/hairy/etc I'll say just whip up an lxc and system install it in there
<rick_h_> but then you're an ssh away from using it each time
<rick_h_> and yea, avoid python system packages unless it's somethig production and you can wait 6mo for an update
<rick_h_> and are willing to run non-LTS packages
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> <3 system packages.
<jrwren> instant deploy FTW
<rick_h_> I love them too
<rick_h_> but find them to not work out well for fast moving things like libraries to things like clouds/etc that don't fall under "I can wait for next release" and "synced with distro release" schedules
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm with rick_h_ on this
<cmaloney> if it's something like jedi where I need it over multiple projects, or something I use often then it gets sudo pip install ..
<cmaloney> other things like galileo (libfitbit) get venvs with scripts
<jrwren> hrm... for all my smack talk about system packages, I built a venv for flexget just last night.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-08
<gamerchick02> happy saturday evening.
<_stink_> hello
<gamerchick02> what's news?
<gamerchick02> i've been staying up way too late. :-P i didn't get back from Lansing til 1 this morning.
<_stink_> aaand we lose an hour tonight
<gamerchick02> i know
<gamerchick02> it's screwing me over really hard this weekend. i'm gonna be dead probably for the next month. i hate DST
<jrwren> that ain't so bad.
<jrwren> saying up way too late means closing out city club and then getting breakfast :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<gamerchick02> there. fixed the TV. now i get the Wings-Bruins game!
<cmaloney> w00t
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-07
<rick_h__> cmaloney: yea
<rick_h__>  family get out of the house time and took one of the boy's local classmates
<cmaloney> cool deal
<cmaloney> We'll be starting in a few minutes
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Anyone out there?
<Zimdale> Starting what?
<cmaloney> The monthly meeting
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/1034/detail/
<cmaloney> First order of business: Penguicon release party approaches
<cmaloney> not sure what the day is (will know more in April)
<cmaloney> but you'll want to get your tickets and room now
<hpucks> I have my tickets and room.
<cmaloney> Coolness
<cmaloney> I ordered some ribbons for the event
<cmaloney> so the first 50 folks will get a ribbon
<hpucks> You can't ply me with ribbons cmaloney (well, maybe you can).  You know what I really want.
<cmaloney> I ordered a conference pack. We'll see if it shows up. :)
<hpucks> :)
<waldo323> Sorry I'm late twas driving
<cmaloney> waldo323: You're excused
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's all I have for the release party at Penguicon
<cmaloney> anyone doing another release party
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Anything else anyone wanted to bring up?
<hpucks> Nope
<rick_h__> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<jcastro> http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/03/peaceful_memorial_rally_in_ann.html#incart_river_index
<rick_h__> jcastro: :)
<cmaloney> morning pt 2
<rick_h__> and moring and such
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15323484/
<cmaloney> WTF MSFT
<jrwren> you can buy support for GNU R from MSFT.
<greg-g> for those who want the performance and security of linux, but the.... who the fuck knows, of MS SQL Server
<jrwren> i'm still coming to grips with this.
<jrwren> the non-oracle of MS SQL Server
<jrwren> i wonder what the sql server mgmt tools will be like. They put tons into making it managable with powershell in the 2010 timeframe.
<jrwren> maybe they'll port PS to Linux. i guess with .net core being open source and on linux that might be pretty easy for them now.
<greg-g> powershell on linux.....
<cmaloney> Well, considering SQLServer is Sybase underneath perhaps that's what got ported
<jrwren> its not sybase underneath.
<cmaloney> Then why can I run sqsh with it? :)
<jrwren> saying SQL Server is sybase under neath is like saying Linux is Minix underneath.
<jrwren> same wire protocol.
<jrwren> just like you can run bash on minux or linux :p
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SQL_Server#Genesis
<jcastro> What an odd day
<jcastro> it's like 60 degrees outside
<jcastro> and mssql is here
<cmaloney> Probably the blow-back from hell freezing over
<cmaloney> warm air has to travel somewhere.
<jrwren> yes, I know it forked from them buying Sybase. I stand by my Minux analogy.
<cmaloney> It'd be more apropos if you did a BSD analogy since I think that had AT&T UNIX code in it for a while.
<cmaloney> AFAIK Linux has no Minix code in it.
<jrwren> yes, I wanted to make the OSX and BSD analogy too.
<jrwren> cuz "OSX is just BSD" is the common phrase, which is totally wrong.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-08
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h__> morning
 * greg-g yawns
<greg-g> know of a good decaf coffee? this one I'm drinking sucks
<rick_h__> no, always seemed against the point. figured if I just needed a hot drink without the juice I'd just do tea
<rick_h__> guess that's kind of nuts though, "I enjoy pie...but if I can't have it without X I'll just go have nothing"
<greg-g> bath water?
<rick_h__> who *really* wants a baby right? :)
 * greg-g actually does like tea, just not first thing in the morning
<greg-g> rick_h__: meant "tea = bath water" :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: The Keurig Dark Magic Decaf isn't horrible
<cmaloney> greg-g: Which one are you drinking now?
<greg-g> some local-ish bulk option at my grocery store
<greg-g> whole bean
<cmaloney> Gah
<cmaloney> pro-tip: Bulk beans are terrible
<cmaloney> get bagged
<cmaloney> problem is the bulk beans are stale
<cmaloney> so you're not getting any flavor
<cmaloney> Compost those suckers and find some decaf whole beans
<cmaloney> (easier said than done, I know)
<cmaloney> but honestly unless the only option is Eight O'Clock you'll be ahead.
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> I hope everyone voted today!
<jcastro> I voted for Picard
<mrgoodcat> haha a good decaf coffee. good joke
<jrwren> i did not vote
<jrwren> but i will
<mrgoodcat> hope you vote for caffeine in coffee
<cmaloney> I think brousch might have some lines on good decaf coffee
<jrwren> mmm... can't decide if I should have a cup of coffee right now, before I go vote, or after.
<jrwren> I feel like I've gone full bat-shit-crazy-liberal. I'll be riding my bike to go vote for a democrat.
<jrwren> I've never voted for a democratic presidential candidate, not even in a primary.
<jcastro> you live in ann arbor
<jcastro> the hippie ends up seeping inside of you
<jrwren> this is true
<jcastro> it wasn't crowded today, I went at like 7am
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't expect primaries to be crowded. i've never voted in a primary though
 * mrgoodcat is a child
<brousch> cmaloney greg-g Starbucks Pike Place Decaf is pretty good
<brousch> Biggby French Roast Decaf is slightly better, but I don't think it exists out west
<cmaloney> rick_h__: What showed up?
<greg-g> brousch: we prefer Peets over Starbucks out here :)
<brousch> I live in a coffee desert
<rick_h__> cmaloney: custom made shirts from italy
<rick_h__> cmaloney: ordered a pair of them when I was in rome from a tailor, got measured/etc
<rick_h__> https://goo.gl/photos/4qsBMqiosyJ7GNGbA
<jrwren> rick_h__: O_O  awesome!!!
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, will be interesting to try them out and see how they hold up and such
<rick_h__> jrwren: fit is awesome though, custom fitted shirt ftw
<rick_h__> next up, sport coat to go with them
<rick_h__> jrwren: oh, I ended up getting a travel suit kind of on accident :)
<rick_h__> jrwren: reminded me of meeting you at the airport in a suit for a sprint
<jrwren> rick_h__: you gonna wait until italy again to get an italian made one, or are you going to go to 1701 Bespoke?
<jrwren> 1701 bespoke is on my list of places from where to buy a suit, i just haven't yet.
<rick_h__> jrwren: well I went to get a travel jacket and found out it's more of just a suit coat
<rick_h__> http://www.rohan.co.uk/mens-travel-and-outdoor-jackets-Envoy-Jacket?ocode=03561051
<rick_h__> so I got the pants to go with it and just make a suit out of it instead
<jrwren> nice!
<rick_h__> jrwren: I got the jacket sleeves tailored here: http://www.jasonbarbaro.com/
<rick_h__> jrwren: seems like a nice guy, so thinking of going there for the sport coat
<jrwren> ha! really cool.
<rick_h__> yea, who'd a thunk a tailor at great lakes crossing
<rick_h__> jrwren: 1701 looks cool, subscribing to the blog
<jrwren> rick_h__: ;]  I've seen their stuff on people I know. They do very fine work.
<rick_h__> jrwren: heh, I'm still not comfy with sites w/o prices anywhere though :/
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Ah, right
<cmaloney> Didn't realize they showed up yet.
<jrwren> rick_h__: i'm told reasonably priced. Not as cheap as off the rack, but cheaper than some of the high end name brand off rack stuff at dept stores. Of course, that aint' cheap :]
<cmaloney> Is this bespoke enough: http://www.redbubble.com/people/synaptyx/works/9026364-end-of-line ?
<cmaloney> http://www.redbubble.com/people/adrienne75/works/10914670-flynns-recognizer-tron?p=t-shirt&style=mens&body_color=baby_blue&print_location=front
 * cmaloney isn't even sure where his white shirts are anymore.
<jrwren> hey, i'm wearing my juju hoodie. very limited edition bespoke ;]
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/you-dont-own-your-ebooks-1763333576
<brousch> I've moved back to buying dead trees for books I want to keep
<rick_h__> jrwren: those were good hoodies!
<rick_h__> :)
<greg-g> I'm sad my "W for knowledge" hoodie, which is great quality, is now tainted by it being heavly associated with the exiting ED's problematic plans :/
<greg-g> ("W" being in the font we use for Wikipedia's logo)
<ColonelPanic001> I did it
<ColonelPanic001> I'm at MUG
<ColonelPanic001> It onlhy took me something like seven years to return
<ColonelPanic001> damn northerners
<hpucks> Apparently there is a MUG meeting tonight eh? Definitely wont be making this one.  Maybe next month.
<ColonelPanic001> there is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-09
<_stink_> OHRLY
<ColonelPanic001> yarly
<Klaudioh> RLY
<cmaloney> Woo hoo!
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFr3K2DORc8
<_stink_> look what i dug up
<_stink_> http://users.adamlincoln.org/~adam/CHC_May2009_1.jpg
<_stink_> http://users.adamlincoln.org/~adam/CHC_May2009_2.jpg
<_stink_> cmaloney jcastro rick_h__ waldo arg, isn't here
<cmaloney> Yeah, he pops in from time to time
<cmaloney> Hah, good ol' CHC photos
<cmaloney> or was this a bug jam?
<cmaloney> I miss that caribou
<cmaloney> s/that/all/
<cmaloney> Still have that shirt
<cmaloney> (and I think that jacket)
<cmaloney> Not that laptop though
<cmaloney> So who stayed up last night to watch the big game?
<jcastro> rick_h__: http://officialandroid.blogspot.com/2016/03/from-hi-to-fi-to-goodbye-to-invites.html
<jcastro> rick_h__: so google is retroactively giving discounts, which means I'll get my money back for the difference
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's awesome
<cmaloney> Saw the discount and it almost got me to try fi
<jcastro> I just switched Jill and I
<jcastro> our family plan from tmo was like, 120 a month
<cmaloney> Ting offers TMo service for $6 a month
<cmaloney> + usage
<cmaloney> Their GSM is TMo
<jcastro> the brilliant bit is the software though
<jcastro> like, you no longer need a carrier app, which is like +1 from me
<cmaloney> Carrier App?
<jcastro> and like I had to have a seperate app for visual voicemail on tmo + 2.99 a month
<jcastro> the app to track usage, billing, etc.
<jcastro> it's always a piece of shit
<cmaloney> Ah, right
<cmaloney> Ting's isn't, but I rarely use int on the phone
<jcastro> but the real clever bit is the wifi assistant
<jcastro> the thing that transparently puts you on wifi for everything without user intervention
<cmaloney> Right
<jcastro> so like, when I go to target
<cmaloney> Sprint's was a steaming pile of shit
<jcastro> usually I have no signal
<jcastro> but there's a starbucks in there
<jcastro> and it transparently puts me on their wifi
<cmaloney> I thought most Android phones will connect to anything you've connected to before?
<jcastro> but for us it will save us a ton of money, though people will need to do math to see if Fi works for them financially
<cmaloney> They're promiscuous like that
<jcastro> yeah but they won't transparently route voice through there
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm glad Google is getting in this
<cmaloney> Ah
<jcastro> like for me, tmo never charged me for music streaming
<jcastro> if I do that on Fi it's like, a significant usage
<jcastro> so all I need to do is be a bit smarter about caching music and playlists etc.
<jcastro> and things like making photos and videos only sync on wifi instead of LTE
<cmaloney> yeah
<jcastro> but like, this drops our bill $70 right off the bat
<cmaloney> I picked up the 5X
<jcastro> it has one flaw, which they're fixing like right now
<cmaloney> ?
<jcastro> the camera app is a laggy piece of shit, but they just pushed out an OTA like today
<cmaloney> Ah, I hadn't noticed.
<jcastro> https://www.reddit.com/r/nexus5x/comments/49n4lh/mhc19j_build_performance_improvements_noted_by/
<cmaloney> I'm coming from 2012 where everything is laggy.
<jcastro> it doesn't affect me but on jill's phone it's kind of crap since she instagrams a bunch
<cmaloney> This phone is much snappier than everything
<mrgoodcat> anybody here have/recommend amazon echo?
<cmaloney> I don't have one, but Dan Bejamin and Merlin Mann have them and like them
<cmaloney> they mention it in their latest podcast.
<cmaloney> (Back 2 Work)
<cmaloney> http://5by5.tv/b2w
<rick_h__> man everyone loves theirs and you hear nothing but good things
<rick_h__> but I can't past that price tag for what looks like "ok google now, what time is it?"
<jrwren> rick_h__: agree. I have "hey siri" on my ipad, so its not just on telefon, and i feel like its an echo.
<mrgoodcat> yea i keep balking at the price
<mrgoodcat> i was pretty excited for the sub $100 version called the dot but it turns out you need to use an echo to buy the thing
<mrgoodcat> i've heard the echo has much better far field voice recognition than anything offered on android or ios (obviously a hardware constraint on a phone) and it has integrated many more 3rd party services
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: agree on all points
<rick_h__> I just don't use the voice on my phone, that didn't cost me anything extra enough
<rick_h__> and the phone is with me across the houes
<mrgoodcat> i use it on my phone and watch
<rick_h__> all that being said, folks LOVE their echos
<mrgoodcat> multiple times per day
<rick_h__> so there's something to it
<jrwren> echo seems like a nice toy, like Paulie's robot in Rocky IV
<rick_h__> yea
<cmaloney> +1
<jcastro> my neighbor has one
<jcastro> the only problem is it's tied to amazon-specific things
<jcastro> which means it'll never work if you use say, google music
<jcastro> though there's really no independent third party one afaict that does what it does
<mrgoodcat> amazon, spotify, pandora, google, audible, iHeartRadio, TuneIn all supported by amazon echo
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think you need to take one for the team and get one
<cmaloney> ;)
<jcastro> ooh, it looks like it can control bluetooth devices
<jcastro> so technically, I think I can pair it with my google device and control gmusic that way
<mrgoodcat> that's close enough for me
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i might when i find a good enough excuse like a discount or something
<mrgoodcat> $gf doesn't really approve of random expenditures of 200$
<cmaloney> s/girlfriend//g
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> haha
<brousch> jcastro: Does Google Fi route you over a VPN when it connects to any wifi?
<jcastro> brousch: yes
<jcastro> cmaloney: you can do a monthly payment of $36 for 5 months, interest free!
<cmaloney> I already have a phone. :)
<brousch> That is awesome then
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-10
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h__> evening
<rick_h__> not going to be down tonight
<cmaloney> bah
<cmaloney> no worries.
<rick_h__> :(
<cmaloney> Something come up?
<rick_h__> tax night, wife is at tax lady and I'm on kid duty
<cmaloney> Oh fun
<rick_h__> getting an appointment is hard and such
<cmaloney> WE'll call that an excused absence. :)
<rick_h__> :)
<cmaloney> Since you have a note from your doctor. ;)
<cmaloney> Hoping the taxes aren't surprising
<rick_h__> wheeee
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know
<rick_h__> I'm such a pessimist these days
<rick_h__> "tax time? Just tell me how much...ugh"
<cmaloney> pretty much
<cmaloney> "I have no deductions, just send me the fucking bill"
<cmaloney> It's a madhouse down here in RO though
<cmaloney> everyone wants to be outside
<rick_h__> I bet, nice day out
<cmaloney> Yeah, walking around downtown is kind of fun
<mrgoodcat> when is tax due?
<mrgoodcat> gotta be soon
<mrgoodcat> i should do that
<cmaloney> April 15th
<Scary_Guy> http://www.modularsynthesis.com/tek/
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Happy birthday jcastro
<jcastro> thanks!
<mrgoodcat> hey happy birthday
<ColonelPanic001> what they said
<ColonelPanic001> any one use libre office impress much?
<greg-g> nope. we've mostly transitioned to gdocs only :/
<rick_h__> same, collaborative editing too good to pass up
<brousch> Mmmmm, gdocs
<mrgoodcat> Mmmmm, guac
<mrgoodcat> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-11
<cmaloney> guac
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<cmaloney> "The best solution of Ukrainian frozen chicken export" <- How did they know?
<Scary_Guy> I'm having fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYRlTISvjww
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: That's awesome. :)
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjigODNy3jk I'm downloading all the things today
<cmaloney> And then there's Java: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Cr0EWwaTk
<Scary_Guy> That's the one that got me started on this quest
<Scary_Guy> Also this Poker Face parody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3qkQROb_k
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRWluVZaww one of my favorites
<Scary_Guy> https://www.facebook.com/scaryguy313 no reason, just throwing this out there :P
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> https://xkcd.com/1654/  :-D
<rick_h__> snow tires off day
<wolfger> People still use snow tires?
<cmaloney> wolfger: That is evil
<wolfger> Scary_Guy: thank you so much.
<rick_h__> snow tires ftw!
<Scary_Guy> any time!
<wolfger> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos
<Scary_Guy> classic
<wolfger> my god, that is so dated. LOL
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoUWHfh733Y here's a recent favorite
<Scary_Guy> No this is dated http://www.dpbsmith.com/pdp1music/ <3
<Scary_Guy> bbl
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: are you familiar with the works for MC Plus+ ?
<wolfger> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnMgmlKi_o
<wolfger> ^misspent youth
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGwbF4ieUxU
<jcastro> well, thanks to you guys I ordered an Amazon Echo
<jcastro> and now my wife is making fun of me
<jcastro> mrgoodcat: I'm going to get the puck one too, but you need an echo to order the smaller one
<mrgoodcat> no you don't
<mrgoodcat> if you open the amazon shopping app and click on the microphone
<mrgoodcat> and say "add echo dot to shopping cart"
<mrgoodcat> it works
<jcastro> hah seriously
<mrgoodcat> apparently that uses the alexa voice service
<jcastro> well, either way, both are back ordered
<mrgoodcat> which is the only requirement
<jcastro> they don't even tell me when I'm getting it
<mrgoodcat> that's too bad
<jcastro> yeah, they must be selling a bunch
<mrgoodcat> unfortunately i want so many things that i don't need
<mrgoodcat> its low on the list
<mrgoodcat> record player is higher priority
<jcastro> actually, I just got an update, march 28th, I ordered it on the 9th
<mrgoodcat> that's not bad
<jcastro> I saw a video of a dude using voice control to watch plex via alexa and I was like. sold.
<rick_h__> lol
<jcastro> "alexa play The Matrix on plex" is just too good to pass up.
<jcastro> but, I already have a smartthings and harmony for the house so I kind of have all the pieces, I just needed something to tie it all together
<jcastro> so like I'll be able to do "alexa bedtime" and it'll make sure all my lights are off, AV equipment is off, make sure the garage door is closed, etc.
<jcastro> anyway I didn't want this thing until you people started talking about it
<jcastro> and then I spent like 3 hours that night investigating all the cool shit people are doing with it
<jcastro> and now my wife is like "but you have a clock, why do you need a computer to tell you what time it is."
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Record Player?
<cmaloney> jcastro: But this clock is on the internet!
<jrwren> hahahaha, that is an excellent response. I'm going to steal it.
<jrwren> "but you have the sun in the sky, why do you need a wrist watch?"
<cmaloney> ^ +1
<jcastro> I can't wait until I have to get a ladder to change this dumb analog clock we have in the kitchen
<jcastro> I am waiting for this weekend so I can be like "THIS IS WHY WE NEED ALEXA"
<cmaloney> jcastro: You didn't get an atomic clock for there?
<jcastro> changing a clock by hand, like a savage
<jcastro> no it's some artsy clock thing
<cmaloney> JoDee likes to make fun of me and my OCD with non-auto-setting clocks
<jrwren> jcastro: hire that out. Get the maid to do it.
<cmaloney> It's 2016. We shouldn't have to set clocks by hand
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure other than clocks and computers all of our clocks are manual.
<cmaloney> The only clocks that are manual are the ones for which I had no say in their purchase. :)
<cmaloney> eg: the Coffee Pot, the stove, the microwave
<cmaloney> The Weather Radio
<jcastro> I hate clocks on appliances
<jcastro> I have one on my mic and my normal oven
<jcastro> and you can't turn them off
<jcastro> and they skew
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jcastro> so basically, I have two wrong clocks for no reason
<jrwren> 90's: but a clock on everything!
<jrwren> just set them each to 10m fast and you'll never be late again. ;]
<cmaloney> jrwren: That shit drives me insane
<cmaloney> total batshit insane
<cmaloney> my mom did that with her car clock. I never knew what time it was
<cmaloney> worse: they have a Mercury with an analog clock and a digital clock (because old people)
<cmaloney> and they're both set one hour apart
<jrwren> lol
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: yes i want a record player
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Why?
<cmaloney> http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/direct2dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2016/03/10/expanding-the-dell-portfolio-of-ubuntu-laptops-and-workstations
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: because i'm nostalgic for the feeling of holding music in my hand, because a lot of the smaller artists I listen to are available on vinyl and they get a higher margin of the profit when you buy that than streaming online, because I have always just liked records and I like the idea of collecting more and being able to actually listen to the ones i already have
<mrgoodcat> that was longer than i was expecting
<jcastro> I collect records, but don't listen to them
<jcastro> mostly I hang them up for the art
<cmaloney> jcastro: Same
<cmaloney> I'll buy the CDs when I can
<cmaloney> and use Bandcamp when I can
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I completely understand the reasons you mentioned though
<cmaloney> if you gave me some nonsense about sound quality there was going to be a paddlin' though. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> well of course i need a moon rock needle
<cmaloney> With carefully positioned ferrite stones in the room
<cmaloney> audiophile feng shui
<greg-g> "I love the hisses and pops"
<mrgoodcat> the moonrock needle sketch might be my favorite steve martin standup
<jcastro> the last few records I bought come with codes to DL the songs anyway, which is nice
<cmaloney> I listened to a vinyl rip of Jesus Jones Liquidizer on Youtube and realized about 30 seconds in "why am I doing this to myself"
<jcastro> the last Pink Floyd album's vinyl is like, incredible, it's like this deluxe packaging
<cmaloney> sounded muddy
<cmaloney> Endless Eiver?
<cmaloney> River?
<jcastro> yeah
<cmaloney> Just picked up the DVD / CD of that
<cmaloney> The packaging is worth it alone
<cmaloney> Not their best album but definitely a high note
<jcastro> indeed
<cmaloney> and quite melancholy.
<jcastro> is the DVD just lossless audio or is there video stuff?
<jcastro> I have a DVD of The Division Bell that has like multichannel lossless audio, it's badass
<jcastro> but the video is just like, the song title lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, same
<cmaloney> I don't have multi-channel
<cmaloney> but it looks like that's what this is
<cmaloney> plus "extras"
<mrgoodcat> I have an AC/DC DVD with a bunch of concert footage and music videos
<jcastro> I don't like multichannel for studio stuff, it's kind of gimmicky
<jcastro> stereo + subs always sounds better to me
<jcastro> but for like live recordings and concerts then +1 to the multichannel
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/69jcg67o6qc62pc/Screenshot%20from%202016-03-11%2011%3A14%3A29.png?dl=0
<cmaloney> ^ Extras
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, I can't think of many situations a studio album would need 7.1
<cmaloney> ~40 minutes of video / audio
<jcastro> I think they're interesting
<cmaloney> I think some Wendy Carlos stuff was done in Dolby Surround
<jcastro> for shit like Dark Side of the Moon the mix is pretty awesome
<jcastro> it's just not the same though
<cmaloney> so it might be interesting to see some of her stuff on 5.1
<cmaloney> Classical music in 5.1 might be awesome
<cmaloney> jcastro: Do you have a SACD player?
<jcastro> no
<cmaloney> I don't think anyone does. :)
<jcastro> well, I think my problem with surround is you don't sit in the middle of the orchestra
<cmaloney> I have a shit-ton of SACDs that I'd like to see if they add anything to it
<cmaloney> Well, it's not so much "center of orchestra" as it is bunce of the hall
<jcastro> I've got a few lossless DTS-HD 7.1 and 5.1 samples
<jcastro> for audio I mean
<cmaloney> right
<jcastro> http://www.soundandvision.com/content/2112-51#tgELtHyiykdiOJmy.97
<jrwren> +1  I've still never been so impressed with surround that it was a must have for me for music listening.
<jcastro> I have this
<cmaloney> jcastro: Same
<cmaloney> Well, DVD version
<cmaloney> fuck bluray. :)
<jrwren> linux.next is abandoning rpi! http://lwn.net/Articles/679447/
<mrgoodcat> i think something like snarky puppy could be cool in surround
<Scary_Guy> @wolfger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMX3deeW6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs9jiXOKNls
<wolfger> That is so much awesome
<Scary_Guy> Now I'm watching this :D  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBjoWMA5d84
<jrwren> http://qz.com/637326/amazon-echo-home-alone-with-npr-on-got-confused-and-hijacked-a-thermostat
<mrgoodcat> jcastro: ordered echo dot
<mrgoodcat> need to learn to control impulses
<jcastro> heh
<cmaloney> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-12
<jrwren> i can't remember, does flash player work in chromium on rpi?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i can't think of any reason it would be different on rpi than any other hardware
<cmaloney> unless they didnt make an arm version
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-13
<jrwren> not just arm, but armv6 hf. if you ignore rpi, its a super rare instruction set.
<jrwren> i've never heard of flash player arm
<brousch> Today at GRDevDay there were 2 people from Detroit looking for a Python user group
<jrwren> huh, interesting. I wonder if they ever went to michipug
<cmaloney> Morining
<cmaloney> fuck dst
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> morning and such
<jrwren> f-dst 4 sure
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://annarbor.craigslist.org/sys/5488248648.html
<cmaloney> jrwren: Nice, but I already have two of them. :)
<cmaloney> I think we only have one 1571
<cmaloney> Honestly the 128 is an impressive machine
<cmaloney> I don't think it got nearly as much attention as it should have
<cmaloney> it's three machines
<jrwren> it was terrible compared to amiga though. I guess it was 1/5 the price, and that makes it awesome.
<mrgoodcat> i forgot who plays go here aside from cmaloney and brousch but did any of you watch the alphago-lee sedol games?
<cmaloney> I stayed up for the first one, but only managed to make it half-way through
<cmaloney> haven't watched the rest
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: ^^
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-06
<SneakyPhil> I got accepted to speak at Penguicon!
<Zimdale> Grats SneakyPhil!
<Zimdale> Terraform stuff?
<SneakyPhil> TF+Config Mgmt
<SneakyPhil> TF is just a base that you have to build on top of
<Zimdale> Awesome!
<Zimdale> If you want example medium for it, you are welcome to contribute it to Pocket Penguin, then I will have some swag you can give out at the talk \o/
<SneakyPhil> \o/
<hpucks> \o/
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cmaloney> Afternoon, btw
<cmaloney> woke up to the realization that I don't ahve as much unemplyment insurance as I thought I had
<cmaloney> yay
<Zimdale> D8
<Zimdale> Time to start selling Kidneys
<_stink_> other people's kidneys?
 * Zimdale shrugs
<Zimdale> Do what you must
<cmaloney> Well, the fun part was I applied for a position at Ford, and I couldn't manage their competency questions.
<cmaloney> I swear I'm getting killed by computers
<cmaloney> reading comprehension / percentages
<cmaloney> THIS IS WHY I WORK WITH COMPUTERS! THEY DO THAT SHIT FOR ME
<brousch__> Oh, yeah, I applied for a job at a very large company here and the application process was torturous. It included uploading a PDF of my resume, then automated processing of that resume broke it into pieces, and I had to confirm each piece it spit out. So I ended up typing the whole resume in again.
<Zimdale> Then once you do get the job it's a 12 hour questionair to make sure you are not hitler
<brousch__> I think I spent 2 full hours applying to that job
<cmaloney> Well part of this was also a fit process
<cmaloney> prioritize how likely you are to do 7 bad things
<_stink_> wtf
<cmaloney> or rather two seemingly good things and five bad things
<brousch__> Good for who?
<cmaloney> Good for ensuring you have internalized a corporate mindset, apparently.
<cmaloney> Even though I've worked for Ford in the past as a consultant
<cmaloney> I swear Linus Torvalds would have a hell of a time with some of these interview nonsense thingies.
<brousch__> You left. Why? Ford is perfect!
<cmaloney> FML
<brousch__> Feel my leg?
<cmaloney> If you like
<brousch__> Will it help you?
<cmaloney> Not really
<brousch__> Your task was to build a scalable OMC database and webapp on AWS
<cmaloney> Correct. Unfortunately that has gone by the wayside because I need to figure out how to pay for it.
<brousch__> Damn
<brousch__> Make a Patreon for OMC, put the funds towards the task
<cmaloney> I have around 100 listeners. Assuming 10% of them contribute around $5.00 that's < $50
<cmaloney> My sis-in-law just got engaged
<_stink_> yay!
<_stink_> i assume.
<cmaloney> Yes. Thank you. :)
<Zimdale> next stop http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/6/6d/I_Married_Marge_-00119.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150116041222
<cmaloney> har har
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-07
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch__> so far
<SneakyPhil> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
<greg-g> Excuse me while I not care about Wikileaks anymore ;)
<brousch__> How did they piss you off?
<greg-g> being political partisan hacks (in the "shitty" sense of the word, not "cracking")
<jrwren> information wants to be free.
<cmaloney> Then why does information need to have ads?
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> is wikileaks pubs filled with ads?
<cmaloney> no idea
<jrwren> missed opportunity
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-08
<wolfger> and characters later
<wolfger> gah. What keystroke changed my channel in mid-typing?
<wolfger> Morning! :-D
<cmaloney> Good morning
<shakes808> morning all
<widox> morning
<shakes808> rick_h: a co-worker just sent out an article about iPhone and Android exploits with the CIA: https://goo.gl/sHDTe4  How is the Ubuntu mobile OS?
<cmaloney> Not sure he'd know.
<cmaloney> He's working on Juju
<rick_h> shakes808: heh, it's....there?
<shakes808> haha, don't see it taking off at all?
<cmaloney> I think you'd have a better chance of seeing a Yeti than an Ubuntu phone in the wild.
<shakes808> the crowd funding phone idea looked pretty sweet and I would have picked one up
<cmaloney> Not saying it's absent, just extremely rare
<shakes808> HAHAHA
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-09
<shakes808_> anyone know any good howtos for a fresh ssd dual booting Win 10 / Ubuntu / data partitions?
<cmaloney-in-exil> Stupid power
<cmaloney-in-exil> Still without power last we checked. Hanging out at parents' place charging up stuff
<dzho> yah there are about 100K customers without power 'round here.
<dzho> we're up but damn
<SneakyPhil> does anyone run consul here?
<shakes808> this is interesting: https://goo.gl/ObZ17U
<brousch__> SneakyPhil: We are looking at it
<SneakyPhil> brousch__: solved my problem with it
<brousch__> Ah, well good. I would've had no idea
<_stink_> power finally back onhere.
<gamerchick02> computer upgrades woohoo!
<gamerchick02> (i just ordered an SSD for my desktop)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-10
<shakes808> Has anyone dual booted with Windows 10 yet?
<shakes808> ... and morning :)
<jrwren> does kicking it twice while wearing boots count?
<shakes808> jrwren: haha.  wish that was the solution! :)
<cmaloney-inexile> This whole "without power" thing is rather annoying
<cmaloney-inexile> 54F in the house
<jrwren> !!!
<brousch__> Get some real infrastructure, n00b
<cmaloney-inexile> brousch__: MAybe I need to move in with my parents. They seem to have power
<cmaloney-inexile> got it back last night around midnight
<brousch__> My sister in Royal Oak also has no power. They are staying with her in-laws
<cmaloney-inexile> Yea
<cmaloney-inexile> At least we have a beast of a hot water tank
<cmaloney-inexile> and back to the world of darkness
<cmaloney-inexile> laterness
<cmaloney-inexile> Stirrrrrrrr crazy
<gamerchick02> why are you in exile, cmaloney-inexile ?
<cmaloney-inexile> No power
<gamerchick02> oh no
<cmaloney-inexile> Yeah, fun fun
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> we're going to a concert at Unity
<gamerchick02> starts at 8 if you wanna get out
<cmaloney-inexile> No worries. It'll come back soon
<gamerchick02> good!
<cmaloney-inexile> That's the hope
<cmaloney-inexile> And my parents have power
<gamerchick02> oh good
<cmaloney-inexile> Bbl
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-11
<cmaloney> Power is back
<greg-g> cmaloney: wow
<jrwren> yay! congrats cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, we lost it on Wed. at 11am
<cmaloney> and got it back around 3pm
<greg-g> dang
<cmaloney> You wouldn't believe how many things got backed up.
<cmaloney> COuldn't read my email (without logging into Linode to view text files in Maildir)
<cmaloney> couldn't wash dishes (garbage disposal needed to be run)
<cmaloney> And we were worried about the cat.
<greg-g> I guess I should buy that small solar panel that carrie is bugging me to
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> i'm holding out for tesla shingles
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> meh, not a home owner. And this could be used with the RV/other camping/whatever
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-12
<gamerchick02> SSD arrived! SSD installed! computer won't boot. :(
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<_stink_> cmaloney: the garbage disposal was a headache for us too
<_stink_> but congrats!
<cmaloney> _stink_: Did you lose power too?
<_stink_> we did, at around the same time you did, but got it back at about 3pm on Thursday
<_stink_> still haven't dug out of the pile of dishes.
<_stink_> did manage to purge the fridge and restock though.
<cmaloney> Yeah, the fridge got a cleaning
<cmaloney> everything was tossed
<cmaloney> (I think this is nature's way of renewing our fridge)
<_stink_> hah, yes
<gamerchick02> welcome back cmaloney
<cmaloney> Computer locked up
<gamerchick02> at least it's back. mine is dead
<gamerchick02> well i have the ubuntu laptop
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> That's no fun
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i tried to upgrade the hard drive which required removing the graphics card so i'd have enough room to plug in the SATA cables and something happened. i don't know what. it's either the mobo or the power supply. so i'm going to microcenter sometime next week to get them to diagnose it and figure out a repair.
<cmaloney> Good luck
<gamerchick02> thanks
<gamerchick02> microcenter has a 17 day backlog right now
<gamerchick02> they lost power for like 4 days
<cmaloney> Oh that's no fun
<cmaloney> I didn't realize they were down as well
<gamerchick02> yeah!
<gamerchick02> so. $40 for a diagnostic, $130 for the repair, plus parts
<gamerchick02> so i'm looking at $400 about to get this fixed if i need a new mobo and chip
<cmaloney> Blergh
<gamerchick02> well i can swing it. i don't WANT to but i need the desktop
<gamerchick02> my gaming addiction calls for it. :-P
<cmaloney> Heh
<gamerchick02> i like having separated computers for different functions. an ubuntu laptop and a windows desktop
<jrwren> !!! https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/sys/6011964791.html
<cmaloney> jrwren: Does it run Ubuntu? :)
<gamerchick02> dang that's huge
<jrwren> cmaloney: i'll bet you could make it work ;)
<gamerchick02> i'm sure he could!
<cmaloney> jrwren: I would love the opportunity to try.
<gamerchick02> of all the people, i'm sure you could get it running proper. :)
<cmaloney> i find your faith comforting and frightening. ;)
<gamerchick02> hey, you're a level higher than me with the whole computer thing. i managed to short something on a drive install
<cmaloney> i blew up a motherbkadd and a processor in my last computer
<cmaloney> don't underestimate ykur skills
<jrwren> ^^^ always good advice.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You might appreciate this: https://www.reddit.com/r/industrialmusic/comments/5z0jkv/dating_sites_hate_him/
<jrwren> I didn't really get it.
<jrwren> oh jezz... NOW I get it.
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> it didn't blow up. just stopped working
<gamerchick02> i didn't release any magic smoke
<jrwren> gamerchick02: have you tried a diff video card or the onboard video?
<gamerchick02> the computer won't turn on, jrwren
<gamerchick02> it won't turn on regardless of what i have in there
<gamerchick02> :(
<jrwren> did you double check the power button cable and power supply cables to the mobo?
<jrwren> do you have an old IDE cable plugged in backwards (used to be a thing)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-05
<wolfger> Morning.
<wolfger> Started getting Launchpad bug e-mails again lately. Funny/sad that bugs I triaged 10 years ago are still not resolved.
<jrwren> wolfger: are they non critical desktop things? no one cares about them.
<jrwren> wolfger: are they on packages in main or in universe?
<jrwren> I'm starting to think that maybe universe does more harm than good.
<wolfger> Well, the bug I got an e-mail about today was for Xubuntu, so....
<wolfger> but the one yesterday was for KDE. Which, of course, should be the desktop everybody uses. ;-)
<wolfger> But seriously... 10 years? In that amount of time, fix it or admit that you never will.
<jrwren> they should close all bugs like they did bug 0.
<cmaloney> heh
<waldo323>  i didn't know they closed bug 0
<cmaloney> Yeah, when they started selling services to Azure. :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> (sell out :P)
<ColonelPanic001> <3 KDE
 * jrwren converts to kubuntu
<cmaloney> converts to gasoline and a match
<jrwren> do you use sddm over gdm3 too?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-06
<Scary_Guy> I'd like KDE if it wasn't so bloated.  but then again I've seen the glory of i3wm.  I could probably move to something even smaller too but this is pretty tiny yet featured
<jrwren> i don't think it is any more bloated than gnome
<Scary_Guy> https://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cmp-all4.png?w=625&h=617
<Scary_Guy> Here's another one I hadn't seen, which shows Unity as the worst https://flexion.org/posts/2014-03-memory-consumption-of-linux-desktop-environments/
<Scary_Guy> Cinnamon is too bloated for me though, but I'm also running ten year old hardware
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> evening
<cmaloney> Ah, sprints?
<rick_h> yea budapest this week
<rick_h> need to get home
<jrwren> oooh... that sounds awesome.
<rick_h> Meh, doesn't do anything for me.
<jrwren> well, i've never been, and I'd like to see for myself :)
<cmaloney> I think Budapest is your least-favorite sprint location
<greg-g> it's a common one?
<greg-g> cheap I guess?
<jrwren> can't be too common. i never went there. :p
<jrwren> maybe its common for manager sprint.
<rick_h> I'm just not a east europe fan I guess.
<rick_h> no, it was my first sprint some 7 years ago
<rick_h> so second time, I guess it's been used maybe 4 times so far
<rick_h> so not crazy common like london or cape town or such
<jrwren> 7 years!
<rick_h> joined in 2011
<rick_h> I guess 6.5 years
<rick_h> since I joined towards the end of the year
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-08
<waldo323> good afternoon
<waldo323> trying to reproduce a failure but so far I keep failing at reproducing it...
<cmaloney> So is that a success then?
<cmaloney> not(not(failure))
<waldo323> maybe?
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> We need a python linux application developer.
<jrwren> https://vivint.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/vivintjobs/job/Lehi-Innovation-Center/Application-Developer_R106663
<jrwren> Let me know if you apply so I can fast track it :)
<cmaloney> That's in Boston
<cmaloney> (in case anyone is wondering where it is located. ;) )
<jrwren> it could be at your home.
<greg-g> remotie for the win
<cmaloney> jrwren: Is it remote?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-09
<jrwren> cmaloney: optionally, yes.
<jrwren> at least, I think so.
<cmaloney> Didn't seem to indicate that. :)
<Scary_Guy> damn, too bad I can't code worth a (GOTO: start)
<Scary_Guy> or something like that anyway
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> afternoon
<rick_h> friday! woot woot
<waldo323> good afternoon rick_h hope your trip wraps up well
<rick_h> Yea almost done
<cmaloney> Whee
<cmaloney> So I'm back looking for income. Whee
<waldo323> project done?  I'll send postings as I find them
<waldo323> I think we are looking for a java developer
<cmaloney> More like "outlook not so great"
<waldo323> ah
<cmaloney> That's not me.
<cmaloney> Plus I have things that I need to work on as a developer
<cmaloney> I got into the weeds on a project and spent longer than it should have gone.
<cmaloney> Hard not to feel like a fuck-up when you have a track record.
 * cmaloney tries to not be hard on himself. Fails again. :)
<waldo323> is there a common way to connect a git repo to a feature/bug bounty system?
<cmaloney> Not to my knowledge
<jrwren> failure is great. it is a great way to learn.
<jrwren> trick is to fail as fast as you can.
<jrwren> yrs to determine a failure? terrible.  months to fail? bad. days to fail? good. hours to fail? great!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> That's a good way to look at it
<cmaloney> Maybe I need to fire up themediocreprogrammer.com again. :)
<cmaloney> Help people fail faster. ;)
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/_Caro_N/status/972175115747188736
<cmaloney> my life in a nutshell
<cmaloney> or a coffee bean. Take your pick.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-02
<Scary_Guy> With the youtube music nagscreen now where they're just blocking content I've just stopped using it mostly.  Can still find some things on there though, for now.
<jrwren> Havenstance: looks up the linux terminal server project. you can network boot more than just terminals.
<jrwren> Havenstance: also known as diskless workstations, but they don't have to be just workstations.
<jrwren> Havenstance: it's been 20+yrs since I did it, but yes, you can totally do it.
<jrwren> nope, that block list didn't work :(
<jrwren> i just spend WAY too much time on https://www.windows93.net lul
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-04
<Havenstance> anyone in here able to take a look at a samba config I'm running on 18.04 lts? I can view the share on my windows box, however I cannot actually write anything to it
<Havenstance> I swear I've looked at permissions a million times but I'm missing something in there
<Havenstance> https://pastebin.com/BuCnWf5L
<Havenstance> I've asked in #samba too so just incase someone here knew I thought I'd bounce it off the bunch of sysadmins I know are in here lol
<Havenstance> have to reboot this machine.... I forgot the sudo password xD
<Havenstance> welp that's embarassing, I broke this box lol
<cmaloney> Havenstance: Lovely. :)
<cmaloney> Re: samba: I've had as little experience with it as possible, so sadly I'm of no help there.
<Havenstance> eh, it's okay it's majaro anyway, I thought I read ubuntu had a 20.04 lts out now?
<Havenstance> im gonna look in a bit and if that's true it's going on top of this manjaro lol
<Havenstance> as far as samba goes, im thinking it just doesn't like to share with windows
<cmaloney> It depends on the Windows
<cmaloney> it's crabby if AD is there anywhere in the system
<Havenstance> so I may just use a small windows xp vm to share those volumes if I can find the iso
<Havenstance> I don't have AD that I know of, but it's Windows 10 I can see the shares but I can't read them...
<Havenstance> and tbh im sure 10 is only being so tempermental because it heard me say I was gonna replace it with Ubuntu Studio lol
<Havenstance> but im gonna wait for 20.04 as I now see that's coming in April :)
<jrwren> Havenstance: unix file permissions still apply, so what is the ownership and permissions for /media/share1 and /media/share2 ?
<jrwren> samba shares with windows just fine, it has for 20+yrs now, and crazily, I've been using it for longer than that.
<cmaloney> Yeah, $lastjob had Samba for the longest time
<cmaloney> when they moved to AD is when things started falling apart
<cmaloney> My evidence is anecdotal though
<jrwren> how long ago was that?
<cmaloney> 2015-2016ish?
<cmaloney> Before Windows 10, for sure
<Havenstance> jrwren, I've used it in the past with absolutely zero issues
<Havenstance> just seems with Windows 10 things are far more quirky than they ever used to be with xp or even 98se lol
<cmaloney> Might have been 2017
<cmaloney> XP to Windows 10 is quite a long jump. ;)
<cmaloney> I'm sure there are still places though that are planning their Windows 7 migrations. ;)
<Havenstance> well I hated 7, and 8 and 8.1 were uh to put it mildly not friendly
<Havenstance> dude my work still has XP boxes
<Havenstance> and I work for a mortgage company
<cmaloney> This does not surprise me
<Havenstance> granted those boxes do not do anything except handle file automation and their blocked from internet
<Havenstance> but someone internal who knows what their doing could cause some serious issues lol
<Havenstance> hang on, forgot this is linux I don't have to open anything special to get that info
<jrwren> i'm definitely using it with a win10 client.
<jrwren> works fine.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Are you using AD at all?
<jrwren> no.
<Havenstance> okay so I am seeing something strange in this terminal man
<Havenstance> havenstance@dockerpriv:~$ ls -l /media/files
<Havenstance> total 0
<jrwren> I think the thing that you are missing is `encrypt passwords = true` in your smb.conf, but that may be default these days.
<jrwren> yeah, it is default true on my samba.
<Havenstance> see yesterday it was stuck as root/root
<Havenstance> so at least I see a change means im getting somewhere lol
<jrwren> isn't is /media/share1 and /media/share2?
<jrwren> what does ls -al /media/share1 /media/share2 say?
<Havenstance> ls -al /media/share1
<Havenstance> sec
<Havenstance> havenstance@dockerpriv:~$ ls -al /media/share1
<Havenstance> ls: cannot access '/media/share1': No such file or directory
<Havenstance> I'll pull that section that defines shares from SMB.conf
<jrwren> did you set the password with smbpasswd?
<Havenstance> those are spoofed share names man
<jrwren> oh, so it wasn't actually your smb.conf?
<Havenstance> forgot I changed those, the originals are actually /media/plex and /media/files
<Havenstance> nah I spoofed just the ending, figured if when you said share1 share2 I'd know to substitute those directories in the commands based on what you said
<Havenstance> hang on I'll give you the actual config, and yes I did set password with smbpass, even set up the .conf to allow for passwordless access, I can see those directories when I run sudo mount -a and come to them from windows
<Havenstance> just trying to put anything in it says you need permission
<Havenstance> despite me saying chown 1000:1000 /both/sharenames
<jrwren> what user is 1000?
<Havenstance> havenstance
<Havenstance> group is haventsance on 1000 too
<jrwren> but you have forceuser=openmyfiles?
<jrwren> I'd remove the forceuser,forcegroup from the smb.conf
<jrwren> i'd also remove the valid users.
<Havenstance> putting it in was an attempt to resolve too lol I'll remove that if it's not needed, the openmyfiles was another account i created and did a chown too as well
<Havenstance> but it didn't work either
<Havenstance> making the edits now
<Havenstance> im trying to get these so that docker can use them cuz I wanna put a bunch of containers on this thing for plex & related stuff
<jrwren> you are going to run docker with storage over SMB?
<Havenstance> so to be clear before I save this man, I'm removing forceuser, forcegroup, and validusers?
<Havenstance> no
<Havenstance> smb is to share that stuff to my windows machine
<Havenstance> docker is going on this machine when I get the shares working
<jrwren> k
<jrwren> yes, remove those, they aren't needed
<Havenstance> all the smb is for so I can drop new files in when the wife makes me buy her stuff lol
<jrwren> have you tried connecting with smbclient to localhsot?
<Havenstance> oooo
<Havenstance> something happened it let me write a file to it that time
<Havenstance> gonna check terminal and see if it shows up
<Havenstance> dude you just fixed it
<jrwren> \m/
 * Havenstance sends jrwren an e-beer
<jrwren> thanks.
<Havenstance> no thank you man
<jrwren> now run a speed test, how fast can you copy a large file to it?
<Havenstance> that was the most frustrating thing
<jrwren> I want to be filled with envy at the speed.
<Havenstance> it's gonna be slow af I haven't disabled the offloading on the xcp-ng vm adapters yet
<jrwren> oh, its a VM? then I will feel no envy. :)
<Havenstance> nvm
<Havenstance> it is in fact transferring at gigabit
<Havenstance> and even more
<jrwren> noice!
<Havenstance> I don't have to enter a password to view my files
<Havenstance> ITS A MIRACLE, not only did you help me get this going but you stopped the wife nagging me about the nag box lol
<jrwren> well, i do love me some samba.
<Havenstance> now that I have a working config file it'll make it so much easier to setup in the future should I need to
<Havenstance> ok so now I mapped the shares to my windows pc, and windows is saying it has just shy of a tb
<Havenstance> that movies drive is a 4tb raid 0 and the storage is 1.5tb
<Havenstance> NAME    MAJ:MIN RM  SIZE RO TYPE  MOUNTPOINT
<Havenstance> sr0      11:0    1 1024M  0 rom
<Havenstance> xvda    202:0    0 1000G  0 disk
<Havenstance> ââxvda1 202:1    0 1000G  0 part  /
<Havenstance> xvdb    202:16   0    2T  0 disk
<Havenstance> ââmd0     9:0    0  3.9T  0 raid0 /media/plex
<Havenstance> xvdc    202:32   0    2T  0 disk
<Havenstance> ââmd0     9:0    0  3.9T  0 raid0 /media/plex
<Havenstance> xvde    202:64   0  1.5T  0 disk  /media/files
<Havenstance> whatever the hell I did just fixed it lol
<jrwren> oh man. i love this. http://librarybox.us/
<_stink_> nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-05
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/aforensics/HiddenVM neat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-07
<cmaloney> Morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-08
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> Afternoon
