#ubuntu-tv 2012-02-13
<Tirean> Hi guys
<Tirean> I was wondering what Ubuntu TV is exactly and by what means it is installed
<ogra_> Tirean, i would check the links from the channel topic :)
<tgm4883> Is there somewhere I can follow the development of the special lenses for Ubuntu TV (eg, EPG, preview mode, etc)
#ubuntu-tv 2012-02-14
<AlanBell> rj_: ask in the channel, don't be shy
<rj_> ok alan...
<rj_> hi everyone
<rj_> rajesh here
<rj_> very new here
<rj_> just want to get some pointers to get started with ubuntutv
<rj_> any docs..or starting point where i can concentrate on to start with
<AlanBell> there are links in the topic
<AlanBell> mostly you have to be a big TV manufacturer in the far east right now
<AlanBell> I think once there is a hardware partner and there is a device to target things might be more open to contributions
<AlanBell> I believe they are folding some of the demo code that was done into unity2d core
<tgm4883> AlanBell, AFAIK, this will be something that you can enable from the desktop
<tgm4883> at least, that was the last I heard
<tgm4883> I think i've gone as far as I can with my scope, until EPG and preview mode get written
<rj_> is this project under requirement gathering phase?
#ubuntu-tv 2012-02-15
<Ultimoore> Hello everyone
<Ultimoore> so how many here are like me (who are not part of the dev team) and want to help?
<Kismac> anyone alive in here?
<L-----D> O_O
<Kismac> :)
<Kismac> seems quite in hereâ¦.
<L-----D> yeah, it seems
<Kismac> i would of thought it be busy with the "tv" stuff
<L-----D> since the project is not making any progress
<Kismac> why so?
<L-----D> I'm not sure, I'm not one of the dev
<Kismac> is their a dev channel?
<L-----D> this is, some of them hanging here, I believe
<Kismac> awe, yea cause we are looking to move content to "tv"
<L-----D> maybe ubuntu want to make sure there are buiness partener before jump into the tv market
<Kismac> thats true,
<L-----D> I'm also looking forward Tizen, since it also said to be a TV branch
<Kismac> i like the in-car part
<L-----D> but that's highly depends on car vendors
<Kismac> that is well as true, but now a days anyone can interface into the car's system
<L-----D> you can put a micro computer into the car, but that can totally replace the original system
<L-----D> like you can't switch the 4wd/2wd mode, remember the seat setting, etc
<Kismac> unless it was tightly integrated and trusted*
#ubuntu-tv 2012-02-17
<alex-> Can it also record stuff?
#ubuntu-tv 2012-02-19
<alex-> Can it also record stuff?
#ubuntu-tv 2013-02-12
<kieppie> hi guys
<kieppie> is there anything to download? I'd *love* to try out Ubuntu TV on a Raspberry Pi - unfortunately no Ubuntu on Raspberry Pi though :(
<tgm4883> kieppie, Ubuntu TV won't run on raspberry pi either
<kieppie> :/
<kieppie> pity
 * brinj is just seeing if anything is happening
#ubuntu-tv 2013-02-13
<kkkkjjjh> sal all
<bobweaver> er I can not get anything to install that I want to install :?
<bobweaver> http://pastebin.com/31G903eY
<bobweaver> bzr branch lp:~fboucault/dee-qt/qt5
<bobweaver> bzr branch lp:~fboucault/bamf-qt/qt5
<bobweaver> bzr branch lp:~fboucault/libdbusmenu-qt/qt5
<bobweaver> and the last one
<bobweaver> bzr branch lp:~fboucault/dconf-qt/qt5
<bobweaver> the most important one that is ^^
<bobweaver> read more about it here
<bobweaver> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-dev/msg00381.html
<jP_wanN> hey there :)
<jP_wanN> I read you search for c++ developers?
<bobweaver> hello Jp
<bobweaver> hello jP_wanN  *
<jP_wanN> hello
<bobweaver> yeah we are looking for qt/c++ developers to help out with some things (porting things to qt5)
<bobweaver> like dconf-qt
<bobweaver> there is also other things that we are looking for help with when it comes to c++
<bobweaver> thanks for showing up. I will be right back (rebooting )
<bobweaver> sorry about that
<jP_wanN> well I never used Qt but I think it's always fun to learn new things
<bobweaver> cool
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  you do know c++ ?
<jP_wanN> yes ^^
<bobweaver> let me get you a ppa that I have been trying to build
<jP_wanN> for which system is it?
<jP_wanN> I've only got cinnarch and ubuntu 13.04, is that okay or should I install 12.04 / 12.10 for the development?
<bobweaver> https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/dconf-qt/qt5
<bobweaver> that is the branch that I have been trying to port to qt5 i tried all night last night and got no where
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  dosent matter
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> I'll just install bzr
<jP_wanN> well that doesn't look like a ppa anyway
<bobweaver> yeah that is not ppa sorry that is just a branch
<bobweaver> but that is #1 on list to get that going in qt5
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> and it seems I have to compile it with cmake. another thing I never used but that shouldn't be the problem. just install and type cmake in the dir?
<bobweaver> what i do (not the best c++ person )
<bobweaver> mkdir build && cd build && cmake ../ && make
<jP_wanN> okay I'll try it.
<jP_wanN> seems I need some qt5 packages...
<bobweaver> thanks jP_wanN  you are great
<jP_wanN_> bobweaver: do you know this error
<jP_wanN_> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:45 (find_package):   By not providing "FindQt5Core.cmake" in CMAKE_MODULE_PATH this project has   asked CMake to find a package configuration file provided by "Qt5Core", but   CMake did not find one.    Could not find a package configuration file provided by "Qt5Core" with any   of the following names:      Qt5CoreConfig.cmake     qt5core-config.cmake    Add the installation prefix of "Qt5Core" to CM
<bobweaver> the cont char one ?
<bobweaver> yeah you have to make sure that you are calling in the correct path when using qt5
<bobweaver> there is a ppa for qt5 let me get for you
<jP_wanN_> well i'm still on arch ^^
<bobweaver>  ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper
<bobweaver> Oh
<bobweaver> ok qt5 works on arch (I think never used )
<jP_wanN_> okay then I just have to install qt5?
<jP_wanN_> I'll try to find it in the AUR (it's not in the official repositories)
<bobweaver> http://qt-project.org/downloads
<jP_wanN_> is this version okay? https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/qt5/
<bobweaver> looking now
<bobweaver> Yeah that looks great
<jP_wanN_> okay
<jP_wanN> sorry my internet connection is really horrible. the qt5 will take about half an hour, so don't expect much input from me until then :D
<jP_wanN> *the qt5 download
<bobweaver> :)
<jP_wanN> okay qt is downloaded
<jP_wanN> but make runs since 5 - 10 minutes :D
<jP_wanN> and my pc really isn't that old ^^
<bobweaver> that is cool jP_wanN  so is mine
<jP_wanN> make really needs some sort of progress indication ;)
<ogra_> whiners ... try building it on an ARM machine
<bobweaver> lol
<ogra_> :)
<bobweaver> I need peps to give me armel machine first
<jP_wanN> no I better won't try
<bobweaver> ogra_,  you got qt5 wayland going on  armel ?
<ogra_> armel is dead ... armhf is current
<bobweaver> << knows nothing about arm
<ogra_> havent played with qt5 yet
<ogra_> but wayland should work i guess
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4:4.8.4+dfsg-0ubuntu4/+build/4285903
<bobweaver> ogra_,  I listened to your talk about building iso's it was Great !
<ogra_> its only 11h for qt4-x11 on arm :)
<ogra_> thanks
<jP_wanN> armhf is used on the raspberry. but I don't know much more either ^^
<ogra_> i need to go on with documenting the image build stuff
<ogra_> the armhf on the raspberry is a frankenberry port :)
<bobweaver> that would be cool ogra_  I have also seen that you all are hitting up valgrind alot these days
<ogra_> (armhf is usually for ARMv7 CPUs ... RPi rebuilds that for v6)
<bobweaver> happy to see that the mem is going down on vexus7
<ogra_> not only on the nexus ... check your intel PC with raring ... it gets the same benefits
<bobweaver> sweet
<ogra_> in the end we should be back to a proper desktop that doesnt eat a gig
<ogra_> (for idling)
<bobweaver>  \o/
<jP_wanN> yes that's really cool :)
<ogra_> currently we're at around 400M already
<ogra_> 200M down compared to quantal
<ogra_> i guess there are another 100-150M that we can cut off
<jP_wanN> now canonical also gets things done that we probably profit from in every distribution. and the next release will be lesser confusing for noobs (I remember apport being one of the first applications starting at the first boot of a ubuntu 12.10 installation)
<bobweaver> ogra_,  you have seen my video ?  https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/Lk3A5yAewwa
<bobweaver> after removing some of the colorize effects I have it almost below 200 mb
<bobweaver> but then after that I was told to do things with qml2 so I am. It now runs at about 30 mb of ram (but it needs a ton I mean a ton of work )
<bobweaver> I am guessing after everything is said and done 120 mb ram
<bobweaver> that is my goal
<bobweaver> this is what is running at 30mb's  https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/Pqzy9ADuoM1
<bobweaver> but when browser is used it spikes oo*
<ogra_> awesome !
<ogra_> heh, indeed
 * ogra_ is off for dinner
<bobweaver> have a good one ogra_  nice catching up :)
#ubuntu-tv 2013-02-14
<smartboyhw> bobweaver, PING
<smartboyhw> tgm4883, I heard from Google+ that you guys are looking for packagers right?
<bobweaver> smartboyhw,  pong
<smartboyhw> bobweaver, are you looking for people with packaging?
<bobweaver> no
<bobweaver> well maybe if it is the right thing
<smartboyhw> bobweaver, I saw it in G+!?
<smartboyhw> !?
<bobweaver> more c++ stuff
<smartboyhw> bobweaver, you mean both requirements must be met...Grrr
<bobweaver> what do you mean grrr
<tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm assuming he's talking about "Are you good at c++ are you good at packaging ?  then we need your help.  Join us on the #ubuntu-tv channel on freenode server for more details.  "
<bobweaver> ahh maybe I should take down packaging part
<jP_wanN> hello
<jP_wanN> bobweaver are you there? :)
<bobweaver> yup
<bobweaver> how you doing jP_wanN
<jP_wanN> I've succesfully compiled qt5
<jP_wanN> and I roughly know where the first error with the dconf-qt code that make shows is coming from
<jP_wanN> but I couldn't find the struct definition of QMetaObject; of which an object is being initialized in qconf.cpp line 296 that produces the error
<jP_wanN> not in the qt sources neither on the net ^^
<jP_wanN> should I just ask the owner of the branch where he got those things from?
<jP_wanN> it's not you, right? :D
<bobweaver> yeah that is what I would do
<bobweaver> I am also getting same error about cont char
<bobweaver> const *
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  no it is not me. maybe Saviq  or Mirv can help you out with that
<bobweaver> I know that Mirv has been doing alot of packaging as of the late all qt5 stuff
<bobweaver> fol-something or anothor would be a key person to talk to
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> I'll just see if the branch owner is online
<bobweaver> this dude https://launchpad.net/~fboucault
<jP_wanN> yes i know
<jP_wanN> there's also his IRC nick :=)
<jP_wanN> :)
<bobweaver> I asked about the error on #qt today and got a response "why are you doing moc job"
<bobweaver> then I explained that I did not know what I was talking about
<bobweaver> then they told me to port mmore simple things . at that point I knew I was way way way over my head
<bobweaver> Once we get that and QConf ported (dee bamf I think are ported) we can then start to make a engine to call unity 3d
<bobweaver> example :
<bobweaver> static const char* UNITY_DCONF_SCHEMA = "com.canonical.Unity";
<bobweaver> inline QConf& unityConfiguration() {
<bobweaver>     static QConf configuration(UNITY_DCONF_SCHEMA);
<bobweaver>     return configuration;
<bobweaver> }
<bobweaver> then just expose QConf and wamo we can read and change dconf settings
<bobweaver>     engine->rootContext()->setContextProperty("unityConfiguration", &unityConfiguration());
<bobweaver> unityConfiguration.formFactor === "tv" ? do this : do this
<jP_wanN> okay I don't understand much of that either :D
<jP_wanN> but I am optimistic that my basic understanding of C++ will be enough to find out what the QMetaObject is for, how it should be used, and how it can be properly initalized ;)
<jP_wanN> okay after reading over your code a bit I think I understand it.
<jP_wanN> dconf is that thing ubuntu uses at many points to save application settings, right?
<bobweaver> correct
<bobweaver> well the full gnome desktop uses dconf (glib-2.0)
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> and why do we need that qt-dconf thing (and what is it basically)? :D
<bobweaver> if you look at cd /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/
<bobweaver> you will see all the settings that are there for things. these are just simple xml files
<jP_wanN> looks cool :)
<bobweaver> as of right now (fake Ubuntu TV Qml 2.0)I am just reading these via XMLListModel  and reading that way but can not change
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> don't really understand...
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> take a look at this file
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/u2t/dailybuilds/view/head:/shell/WallpaperColor.qml
<bobweaver> see how QConf is reading the scema
<bobweaver> schema *
<bobweaver> org.gnome.desktop.background
<bobweaver> if you look in that dir that I was just talking about you can see that there is all that there
<jP_wanN> yes i see
<jP_wanN> but that file looks like code
<jP_wanN> and I don't know the language
<jP_wanN> that thing on launchpad
<bobweaver> so in other words it makes it so one can change the settings of the desktop from the dash itsself
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  that is QML  I can take care of all that ;)
<jP_wanN> okay...
<bobweaver> It is the backend tools that I can not take care of :/
<jP_wanN> okay
<jP_wanN> so QConf is the tool that should read the xml schemas on ubuntu TV?
<bobweaver> Yeah
<bobweaver> that is the tool that is a awesome tool
<jP_wanN> good then I know everything I wanted to ):
<jP_wanN> :)
<jP_wanN> just one thing, is that branch a newer version of QConf we want to adapt to or is it something new?
<jP_wanN> because you said something of porting it...
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  you are porting that right now
<bobweaver> Qconf == dconf-qt
<bobweaver> Qconf is the name that the plugin is givin
<bobweaver> If you look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~fboucault/dconf-qt/qt5/view/head:/qml/plugin.cpp
<bobweaver> you can see how all the code is being exposed to Qml
<bobweaver>  qmlRegisterType<QConf>(uri, 1, 0, "QConf");
<bobweaver> you could call that something different (Not a good Idea)  but what is going on here is it is    registering a New qml plugin
<bobweaver> #include "plugin.h"
<bobweaver> #include <QtQml>
<bobweaver> #include <QConf>
<bobweaver> all them files get pushed to the plugin
<jP_wanN> yes but what are we porting to what??
<jP_wanN> I don't really understand what we already have and how complete this QConf on the branch is
<bobweaver> Not sure I understand your question
<jP_wanN> well perhaps I understood something wrong. I'm no native speaker
<bobweaver> well with out Qconf (dconf-qt) then there would be no Unity 2d
<jP_wanN> okay
<bobweaver> so think of it like this
<bobweaver> a bunch of c++ stuff (dconf-qt) _> that goes to make a "plugin" called QConf that goes under the Qt plugins dir (<src>/qml or <src>/imports)   then one can call that in QML
<bobweaver> as Ubuntu TV front end is Qml and so is Ubuntu Phone
<bobweaver> so it is like you are make a lib
<jP_wanN> so we're porting dconf to qml or how would you express that?
<jP_wanN> I don't like that "port" word :D
<bobweaver> yeah that is the ticket
<jP_wanN> it's so unclear how it's meant ^^
<bobweaver> you are porting dconf-qt  from qt4 to qt5
<bobweaver> but all the cmake stuff was done for yah
<jP_wanN> from qt4 to qt5. so that's what it's all about :D
<bobweaver> like changing    ${QT_QtGui REQUIRED}   to  ${Qt5Gui REQUIRED}
<jP_wanN> that's what I didn't understand before
<bobweaver> yup that is right
<bobweaver> if you look at dconf-qt before it there was that branch then you will see that the CMakeList.txt files are way different
<bobweaver> In fact it is said that Unity 2d did in fact get ported to qt5 right before they droped it
<jP_wanN> okay and is the current code on the branch the latest version of dconf-qt that uses the qt4 API or is some of the work already done?
<bobweaver> they = canonical
<bobweaver> Not sure what you mean
<bobweaver>  jhodapp  maybe you would like to read this ? http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/20932
<bobweaver> sorry jP_wanN
<jP_wanN> okay I'll read it in a minute
<bobweaver> if one is to look at the older files of CMakeList.txt  (https://gitorious.org/dconf-qt/dconf-qt/blobs/master/CMakeLists.txt)   you can see that alot of the porting has been done already
<jP_wanN> okay that was my question :)
<bobweaver> like find_package(Qt4 REQUIRED)
<bobweaver> should be changed to
<bobweaver> find_package(Qt5_Widgets  REQUIRED)
<bobweaver> ect ect
<bobweaver> which Florian Boucault has so kindly done
<jP_wanN> :)
<bobweaver> jP_wanN,  I also sent Kaleo a message
<bobweaver> yesterday also :/
<jP_wanN> okay I think we'll just have to wait, then
<bobweaver> popey,  the manhattan project in canonical this is the Phone ?
<bobweaver> look at this he talking to me !!!!!!!!
<popey> bobweaver: hmm?
<bobweaver> the project called "Manhattan"
<bobweaver> popey,  ^^
<popey> its one of a bunch of projects
<tgm4883> it's probably HL3
<popey> hah
<bobweaver> what is HL3 tgm4883  ?
<popey> bobweaver: Half Life 3.
<bobweaver> Ahh that took some googling to figure out what that was even after you told me popey
<popey> not a gamer then?
<bobweaver> Nope .
<bobweaver> I mean I have  played games but nothing in the last say 10 to 15 years
<bobweaver> like I play sports games like madden and MLB and NHL stuff. But I also try to play that in real life. Kinda doing bad at tha t
<tgm4883> speaking of games, there is a linux sale going on http://store.steampowered.com/
<bobweaver>  \o/ Weather App data is 100% pluged in !!!! Thanks again popey
<bobweaver> now just to find a good designer that knows how to use gimp
<popey> Suh-weeet!
<bobweaver> 1 day later lol
<bobweaver> got to love qtquick making video now
<bobweaver> popey,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXuakr87oA&feature=youtu.be
<popey> awesome!
<bobweaver> popey,  now that was simple and one day. wait till I get the core code I am going to lite a fire up under that thing
#ubuntu-tv 2013-02-15
<Subhadip> Hi, I have worked in c++ and I wish to contribute to this project but not really sure where to start. Could any of you please help?
<tgm4883> bobweaver, CrestedNewt meeting time?
<bobweaver> woops I forgot about that joining channel now
<bobweaver> so tgm4883  again
<bobweaver> er sorry mhall119
<bobweaver> so I went to will and Jim and said hey I know that you all can not talk to me about things that are happening in the uture but if you see soething just email me saying "that is not a good idea "
 * tgm4883 wonders if we should try to work some of these issues out
<bobweaver> I get emails that tell me what is going on
<bobweaver> brb phone
<CrestedNewt> OK, there are many issues here. I think that it's time to get them in the open, seeing that this is an OPEN source project :D
<bobweaver> these are the type of emails that I get
<bobweaver> Anyway... remember at UDS we had a quick conversation outside during a smoke break.  We agreed that if I could give you any direction about where to focus your efforts that I'd give you a heads-up and that you wouldn't ask any questions for the time being.... well, guess what....
<CrestedNewt> mhall119, bobweaver had it working in Unity 3D but there were changes to something - exactly what I can't remember as it was above my 'pay grade' :D that is why he went back to 2D
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcepB1E1lX0
<bobweaver> unity 3d ^^
<bobweaver> formfactor tv
<bobweaver> everyone hated it
<bobweaver> then libunity got changed and it would not work
<bobweaver> I guess I am just not good at working with others
<bobweaver> Listen I like to program
<bobweaver> it is FUN
<bobweaver> but I only like to program things that are fun
<bobweaver> If something puts me into tears then I am not going to do it unless I am getting paid to
<CrestedNewt> For this project to work, bobweaver needs some form of direction from canonical. Be that in the form of a NDA but at least he then has direction and is not wasting his time on re-doing work
<CrestedNewt> NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement
<bobweaver> and I dont even think that I would take a job that makes me cry all the time
<bobweaver> If canonical wants Ubuntu TV on unity 3d they can pay me
<bobweaver> bottom line
<bobweaver> and on top of that I dont think that I would take the job
<bobweaver> So this is what I am going to do
<CrestedNewt> bobweaver - hang fire for a min before you say something you may regret - ok?
<bobweaver> I am going to give it a weekend to cool down and then I will make emails to send out . If things do not go right then so be it
<bobweaver> sorry CrestedNewt  you are right
<bobweaver> But I am done wasting all my time
<jhodapp> Is there a problem?
<CrestedNewt> You have created what looks like something special.
<tgm4883> jhodapp, lol
<tgm4883> jhodapp, I can fill you in if you want
<CrestedNewt> jhodapp - yes - there are problems in the community with those working on TV - bobweaver is talking of quitting
<mhall119> bobweaver: we've told you all that we know about the direction Unity is taking
<jhodapp> tgm4883, sure
<bobweaver> "we want app developers"  ok I will make app "what you changed the design every 4 hours " how can a programmer keep up with that
<tgm4883> jhodapp, pm?
<mhall119> the fact that we don't know more is frustrating to all of us
<jhodapp> tgm4883, yep
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  in channel please
<tgm4883> ok
<bobweaver> it invols all of us
<tgm4883> bobweaver, not keeping anything secret, I just didn't want to clog any more conversation that was taking place
<jhodapp> CrestedNewt, ah ok
<CrestedNewt> I like to call a shovel a shovel :D
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  +1 I think that it is good that we are talking about this
<tgm4883> jhodapp, so we just had the weekly meeting. It's starting to become increasingly apparent that the canonical is making all the rules, and bobweaver is doing all the work (i'm just doing scope stuff)
<mhall119> bobweaver: you know the situation as well as jhodapp and I know it, you know that we've been struggling to get answers for you and to provide you with the best direction available
<bobweaver> I just want to say that I am not mad if it comes across like that blame dyslisica and keyboards :)
<tgm4883> jhodapp, while this isn't necessarily an issue, things keep changing on bobweaver and he can't get a straight answer from anyone for direction
<mhall119> tgm4883: things have been changing on everybody, inside and outside of Canonical
<tgm4883> mhall119, yea, but the people inside of canonical get to know about it
<mhall119> we let you guys know about the changes as soon as we can, but we're not the ones making them
<jhodapp> bobweaver, yes, what mhall119 just said is very much the reality
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  also I would like to add that I am not going to do 3d it is done tell people to use it
<bobweaver> again not mad stupid keyboards lol
<CrestedNewt> OK guys, I have a business background. Let me put it in simple terms. Canonical is based in London UK. Someone there must have accountability for this project there. Who is this person and can I talk to them to get bobweaver the help he needs?
<mhall119> tgm4883: we don't usually know about it inside of canonical
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: Canonical staff are all over the world
<bobweaver> I Love to program..... in some langs :)
<tgm4883> jhodapp, mhall119 in that case, we shouldn't be using Unity
<bobweaver> tgm4883, and everyone please think about the phone
<bobweaver> is the phone using unity ?
<tgm4883> jhodapp, mhall119 we should never have picked a platform that was such an unstable moving target
<mhall119> tgm4883: Canonical wants a Unity that will work on TV, that's what our goal is for this project
<jhodapp> tgm4883, well you should if you care about a converged device
<bobweaver> mhall119,  what is Unity ?
<bobweaver> think about that
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp unless canonical start putting resources toward the project, I don't care what canonical wants
<mhall119> bobweaver: it's a set of APIs and UI/UX principles
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp which sucks, because I honestly like Unity
<CrestedNewt> Unity = wat we aren't at the moment :D but we will get there :D
<jhodapp> tgm4883, yeah I know, I wish we could get resources as well
<tgm4883> (setting aside the obvious patent violation)
<mhall119> tgm4883: that's fine, it's a reasonable position for you to have, if your goals don't line up then it's a shame, but no hard feelings
<mhall119> we don't want the community to be free labor
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp I think if your goals don't line up then we have a problem here.
<mhall119> if you have the same end-goal in mind as us, we want to work togther
 * bobweaver dosent care what canonical thinks is a good idea. He cares about having a good working tv at home/ If other want to use Ubuntu tv from now on Out I am telling them to use it from 3d 
<tgm4883> mhall119, that is just the thing, you want to work together, but you can't
<bobweaver> the goal is to have on Unity 3d then I am not porting to phone as "Ubuntu TV "
<bobweaver> that can be done via 3d
<bobweaver> we will see about hardware sccel on that
<bobweaver> accell *
<bobweaver> rotflol
<bobweaver> also if that is the case then I step aside and other can do the work of porting to NUX as they are bangging on the door to help
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp my understanding from the last year of discussing Ubuntu TV with you guys is that everything is "Nux All the Unity Things", then phone comes out in qml?
<bobweaver> because NUX can not be on phones
<bobweaver> lets be honest here
<jhodapp> tgm4883, yes, what bobweaver said
<bobweaver> Nux is a great tool
<CrestedNewt> mhall119, correct me if I am wrong.... Linux is all about 'Community' providing solutions and free to all. If the flavour of Linux is controlled and changes so much, that does not help the 'Community' especially when those changes can't be told to others outside the Illuminati which affects the 'communities' work.
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp keep in mind, I'm only doing the scopes stuff, and that works in any unity, so I'm probably one of the more impartial people here as I don't have a lot of work invested in something that is getting scraped
<mhall119> tgm4883: we were being told, internally, to "Nux all the Unity Things"
<bobweaver> but it is def not for accell hardware
<tgm4883> mhall119, so how did phone get away with it?
<bobweaver> also Nux could be ported to QML
<bobweaver> as a plugin
<bobweaver> this would be real hard and pointless
<mhall119> you guys make it sound like we have some secret cabal, deciding on changes and never telling you, but I promise we're just as suprised and frustrated by the changes as you are
<jhodapp> bobweaver, no, we're not doing that
<bobweaver> as qt rendering system is well Honest here better
<tgm4883> mhall119, and then what is the future of phone? it seems that "Unity" is becoming less of a unified codebase and more of a unified UI
<mhall119> tgm4883: I don't know the details, but I do know that the original plan for the Phone shell was to do it in Nux
<bobweaver> again NUX is a great tool
<bobweaver> but If I am to go out side to change the oil on my GF car I am not using a hammer
<bobweaver> I need a oil wrench some gloves aka the right tools
<jhodapp> tgm4883, yeah, NUX didn't meat the requirements, so at least for the phone, we're not using it
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp while I know that you guys do know stuff you can't tell us, trust me, I don't think you have some secret cabal. The fact that you, mhall119, the lasian between community Ubuntu TV and canonical has secrets kept from him is a very bad thing
<bobweaver> also with qx11info comming back tp qt5 that opens up all sorts of cool dors
<bobweaver> doors *
<mhall119> tgm4883: I don't have any secrets about this
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  jhodapp  maybe We should talk about the convo we had at UDS
<tgm4883> mhall119, thats exactly my point. You have secrets being kept from you
<mhall119> bobweaver knows as much about the phone/tv/unity plans as I do
<CrestedNewt> mhall119 - no he said that secrets are being kept from you as liason
<bobweaver> about if I am doing something that is beeing worked on you all send me email saying that is not a good idea
<mhall119> tgm4883: nobody knows, it hasn't been decided yet what's going to happen, we're *all* waiting on a decision to be made
<bobweaver> this is good because it stops us and also doesent give away secerts
<mhall119> secrets aren't being kept from me
<mhall119> and secrets aren't being kept form bobweaver
<mhall119> we just plan don't know
<tgm4883> mhall119, I feel you're talking about Ubuntu TV there, when I'm hearing the issues are not with Ubuntu, but actually with Unity
<mhall119> tgm4883: the Unity team doesn't know
<mhall119> there's a lot of talk but no decisions have been made
<tgm4883> mhall119, the unity team doesn't know when they do Unity changes?
<tgm4883> that's not very good
<mhall119> they don't know which Unity changes they're going to have to make until they're told to make them
<jhodapp> tgm4883, which is no different than any company
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  please listen to me on this one I think that in 14.01 where are going to see massive changes to the dash
<CrestedNewt> So the question is - who is it that makes that decision for the change?
<bobweaver> good question CrestedNewt
<tgm4883> jhodapp, most companies don't have the community do all the work
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: someone very high up, usually Mark and his immediate management team
<jhodapp> tgm4883, true, though most companies don't interface with communities at all
<tgm4883> mhall119, mark! That guy isn't even CEO :P
<CrestedNewt> jhodapp - I was problem and Change manager, Europe for a large oil company. I know what it is like and transparency is what provided the best solutions
<bobweaver> :)
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp ok, so how about this. What should bobweaver do.
<jhodapp> CrestedNewt, absolutely, I totally believe in transparency
<bobweaver> jhodapp,  I have meet with CrestedNewt  and CrestedNewt  dont take this the wrong way but I did check him out his is legit
<bobweaver> meaning looking at his past
<CrestedNewt> no offence taken - transparency
<jhodapp> bobweaver, my transparency or CrestedNewt's?
<CrestedNewt> mine :D
 * bobweaver is lost lol
<tgm4883> bobweaver, you shouldn't be, everything is transparent ;)
<mhall119> tgm4883: I'd suggest that bobweaver wait until the 21st and then look at the phone code
<jhodapp> bobweaver, nevermind, I just didn't understand your statement
<CrestedNewt> lol guys - at least I'm starting to get a smile back on my face
<jhodapp> tgm4883, I completely agree
<jhodapp> tgm4883, that is the platform going forward
<bobweaver> and PHONE CAN NOT RUN NUX
 * tgm4883 jots that down
<bobweaver> sorry about that caps
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp so are we going to meet the 14.04 goal set by Mark?
<jhodapp> bobweaver, indeed, it's not Nux based at all
<jhodapp> tgm4883, I believe so
<bobweaver> I need to look at why my light is not turning on when caps is onn
<tgm4883> mhall119, jhodapp or are we going to have to just say that goal was met by Mythbuntu
<jhodapp> tgm4883, which goal specifically?
<tgm4883> jhodapp, I believe the goal was "ubuntu running on tv's"
<tgm4883> jhodapp, it was during the keynote
<mhall119> tgm4883: that can mean many things
<bobweaver> jhodapp,  mhall119  tgm4883  CrestedNewt  you all are awesome
<tgm4883> the whole "ubuntu on tv's tablets phones etc"
<mhall119> ubuntu-core, the kernel and foundation stuff, can already run on TVs
<mhall119> Unity can too, but it doesn't work well in the desktop configuration
<bobweaver> jhodapp,  esp for taking time to talk about this with the community
<bobweaver> mhall119,  that is not true
<jhodapp> thanks bobweaver, you're great for wanting to help out too and sticking with it
<bobweaver> most tv are still amel like same as pi
<tgm4883> mhall119, I'd really hope that mark's keynote wasn't meant to be completed via some technicality
<bobweaver> which I dont have the hardware so I can not test
<mhall119> I'm pretty sure compiz can run on arm
<bobweaver> mhall119,  again right tools for right job
<bobweaver> hardware acell is not that easy
<bobweaver> ask anyone at linaro
<mhall119> tgm4883: what Mark intends and what we can acheive are not always the same thing
<bobweaver> If canonical plain is to use 3d then let it be
<mhall119> bobweaver: I've seen Unity 3d running on Linaro's boards, they used them for the hall-monitors at UDS
<bobweaver> yeah and they over heat
<bobweaver> and they run slow
<mhall119> I didn't say it was great :)
<bobweaver> again Not putting it down
<bobweaver> what I am trying to say is that there are the right tools or in this case right toolkits for jobs
<tgm4883> so this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to continue working on my unity scopes. I'm also going to finish the Mythtv backend quick start guide. I'll do both of those because any work I do on them can be used on the desktop unity
<tgm4883> unfortunately, work that bobweaver does isn't the same
<bobweaver> if I am going to fix leakey roof I do not want to use a car
<bobweaver> though I want a car in my tools it helps me get to the job
<bobweaver> but I am not going to drive it up on the roof
<bobweaver> it would fail
<bobweaver> that would be one big holw
<bobweaver> hole
 * bobweaver goes to google to look for pics of cars in roofs 
<CrestedNewt> I was talking to a friend of mine this evening and he said that Texas Instruments have some fantastic A9 boards out there that run 'cool' - he should know about these things as he has an electronics company creating embedded applications for welding and sewage monitoring
<bobweaver> http://thewildones.faketrix.com/content/pictures/page-7/large/car-crashes-into-house-roof.jpg
<bobweaver> :D
<bobweaver> that is not how to fix a roof
 * popey is glad he doesn't live there
<CrestedNewt> lol
<bobweaver> popey,  do you need that person to fix your roof ?
<popey> heh
<mhall119> even popey doesn't know what' going to happen with Unity
<bobweaver> I would not trust tools like that
<mhall119> if popey doesn't know, it's not knowable
<tgm4883> mhall119, of course not, he'd just blab it on UUPC
<popey> hey bobweaver I can only echo what the guys have said. some of the architectural decisions are made by the people involved, and nobody finds out until the decision has been made
 * tgm4883 blames popey for being british
<popey> some of those processes take w a y too long
<popey> pip pip tgm4883 !
<CrestedNewt> OI!! I resemble that remark tgm4883
<bobweaver> correct popey
<mhall119> popey: should have stuck to playing TF2 today :P
<popey> and sometimes we screw it up
<tgm4883> speaking of british, isn't it tea time?
<popey> sometimes we end up making the wrong decision
<popey> "we" as in "canonical"
<CrestedNewt> yep - my dinner is in the oven and family are waiting for me to finish with this
<popey> and have to figure out a way to work forwards without taking 3 steps back
<popey> and it's not easy
<tgm4883> <popey> "we" as in "the british" FTFY ;)
<popey> especially when we have the steady march of releases every 6 months
<popey> and a target of 200 million devices by 2014
<popey> oh and run ubuntu on everything pls
<bobweaver> popey,  would you be willing to meet up with CrestedNewt  in person at the office ?
<mhall119> if American TV has taught me anything, it's that someone with a British accent is always right
<tgm4883> sorry popey, daviey hasn't been around that much and I've got pent up anti-british remarks to make
<popey> bobweaver: not sure that would help anything
<popey> tgm4883: i went out for lunch in a real english pub with him recently.
<mhall119> or evil
<popey> he wore a flat cap and everything
<mhall119> or both
<popey> he was even in the pub before it opened!
<tgm4883> popey, a real english pub?
<popey> yes
<tgm4883> popey, are there fake ones?
<mhall119> popey: but was he out before it closed?
<popey> there are
<popey> yes, he even bought beer!
 * popey falls over
 * tgm4883 wonders what a fake english pup entails
<popey> no, wait, hang on, I bought it
<popey> bah
<mhall119> tgm4883: bud light I suspect
<tgm4883> mhall119, ah
<popey> "Warm, flat and cloudy"
<CrestedNewt> popey, if you are ever up my way near Stansted, give me a shout and I'll take you to one or two pubs :D
<popey> heh
<tgm4883> mhall119, cause 'Merica
<mhall119> damn right
<mhall119> see, now I'm smiling again, thanks guys
<bobweaver> cool well can we al get over the whole Unity 3d thing now ?
<popey> I'd say as soon as the code is dropped for Ubuntu phone next week.. we should discuss this further
<mhall119> bobweaver: not just yet, but I hope we can someday
<bobweaver> that has been the plain for me popey
<popey> wise
<tgm4883> popey, no, I think we should discuss fake english pubs now!
<popey> oh okay.
<popey> Opressive yanks..
<popey> :Ã¾
<CrestedNewt> Sceptic Tanks :D
<popey> tgm4883: or are you canadian?
<tgm4883> popey, don't make us come spread our freedom to you
<bobweaver> mhall119,  what I mean is if you want to tell people to use it on Unity 3d then feel free
<tgm4883> popey, 'Merica
<popey> daddy no
<popey> fsck yeah!
<bobweaver> not sure how that would work with peoples thoughts on Ubuntu TV
<CrestedNewt> well seeing that I'm married to a longhorn ....
<tgm4883> where everything is right, and we use the imperial system
<CrestedNewt> OK guys, so nothing is going to happen until the phone OS is out - correct?
<popey> Seems like a prudent thing to do
<mhall119> CrestedNewt: we're hoping to have some answers about Unity starting then
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, nothing I do matters in regards to what the phone code says
<popey> Given that's actually the code which the phone runs.
<mhall119> it doesn't necessarily mean we'll *have* more answers then
<popey> tgm4883: too many words
<popey> "< tgm4883> CrestedNewt, nothing I do matters"
<tgm4883> lol
<popey> âº
<tgm4883> popey, no, I said I was from 'Merica, not Canada
<Jim_Lahey> er everytime well almost every time I take a phone call I lose connection either that Or popey  keeps on kicking me
<Jim_Lahey> <<bobweaver
<popey> muhahah
<popey> no, not me
<Jim_Lahey> how to do ghost thing in IRC
<tgm4883> popey, you should know that, based on my distinct lack of appologizing for anything
<mhall119> popey shuts down all of the things
<popey> \o/ shut it down
<Jim_Lahey> says that I am on line
<mhall119> Jim_Lahey: /msg nickserv ghost bobweaver
<tgm4883> Jim_Lahey, upgrade from your 56k modem?
<mhall119> Jim_Lahey: I bet you have a cordless phone, don't you?
<popey> DECT?
<popey> same frequency as wifi innit
<popey> guv'nor
<CrestedNewt> Wooden DECT :D
<tgm4883> popey, so behind the queen and prince william, how many people away are you from the throne?
<bobweaver> thansk all
<popey> about 8 feet
<bobweaver> tgm4883,  wait you are going to give me Money !
<CrestedNewt> good job bobweaver - keep the faith!! Will hangout at some stage over the weekend
<popey> oh, not that throne
<bobweaver> that is great
<bobweaver> I love money
 * tgm4883 is disturbed that popey hangs out in the royal bathroom
<bobweaver> you can send it to care of mr awesome router blah blah blah :)
<CrestedNewt> popey IS the royal bathroom
<popey> bobweaver: I did tell you to setup an amazon wishlist âº
<popey> (then make it pop up every time someone turns on their TV)
<popey> that's what we do, right?
<bobweaver> Oh I did I need to post that
<bobweaver> :)
<bobweaver> it has things like a pony and a castle .. a white one and little burgers on it
<CrestedNewt> ok - change of tack here once again.... Oscar Pestorious has pleaded guilty today. His lawyer said that he didn't have a leg to stand on - BOOM BOOM!!
 * bobweaver wants white castle in upstate NY 
<bobweaver> mhall119,  yeah phone is cordless (from thrift store )
<mhall119> bobweaver: I bet it uses the same frequency as your wifi
<mhall119> I had that issue a while back, took me months to figure it out
<bobweaver> yeah I should get a new one like a 1980-70s phone or make one
<bobweaver> it happens right after I hang up
<bobweaver> mhall119,  was it like that for you also ?
<bobweaver> after hangup ?
<mhall119> bobweaver: it happened as soon as I picked up the call for me
<mhall119> I ended up changing the frequency setting on my AP
<bobweaver> also mhall119  do you think that me and you and david plantilla or what ever his name is could sit down and talk apps for phone
<bobweaver> and design mainly design part
<bobweaver> I have some great ideas that I think could help developers
<bobweaver> what i he dpm ?
<mhall119> planella
<bobweaver> nick that is ^^
<mhall119> bobweaver: we've got wiki pages for posting links to designs
<mhall119> Kevin Wright is leading the development effort around the core apps
<bobweaver> yeah but they keep changeing ever 4 hours !
<mhall119> bobweaver: it's open submission, there was never a "chosen" design to change
<bobweaver> and if people could use different tools it would make devs life al9ot better
<bobweaver> maybe we can talk about that ?
<bobweaver> that is what I would like to talk about
<mhall119> about the tools?
<bobweaver> tieing in developers with designers
<bobweaver> making a stream
<bobweaver> ideas that I was thinking about
<bobweaver> I seen that there is rss right for when it is changed
<CrestedNewt> Laters all - gtg have dinner.
<mhall119> the stream right now is to use Balsamiq, which lets us host many revisions and give comments to the designer
<bobweaver> mhall119,  like if we look at weather app
<bobweaver> I started making that 2 days ago
<bobweaver> I am getting close to done
<bobweaver> but I can not find the design's that I was using before :/
<bobweaver> I think that they got changed ?
<bobweaver> maybe this is my fault because I did not contact designer
<bobweaver> maybe we can make a thing that has button to contact designer
<bobweaver> you know to work togeather
<mhall119> bobweaver: the Canonical design team just posted some, I added them to the wiki page
<bobweaver> Yeah but I dont want to re-design my full app
<mhall119> you can browse all the balsamiq ones here: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/grid
<bobweaver> that would be point less
<bobweaver> see that means that I just spent 2 days working on something to change the full thing
<bobweaver> that is frustating fro devs
<bobweaver> I dont care my self
<bobweaver> but I cuuld see how someone would walk away after something like that
<mhall119> you don't have to change anything, people can use your app how it is if they want to
<bobweaver> that is stupid
<bobweaver> wrong words
<bobweaver> dang keyboard
<bobweaver> what I mean is if canonical has and wants community to make apps for phone then there should be things like this person is doing it also work with him
<bobweaver> not talking about making my own app
<mhall119> bobweaver: we have that here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Weather
<mhall119> add links to your code and screenshots
<bobweaver> I want to make Ubuntu Better that makes me better I do not need to make only me better
<mhall119> so the other contributors know about it
<bobweaver> I need upload right
<mhall119> to the wiki?
<bobweaver> I have branch want it
<mhall119> you should haveit
<bobweaver> no to the launchpad team
<mhall119> you can push your bzr branch to Launchpad
<bobweaver> maybe Not it says I do not have permission
<mhall119> bzr push lp:~<your_lp_username>/ubuntu-weather-app/<name_of_your_branch>
<bobweaver> or do I need to push to junk and propose medge
<mhall119> not to junk, you should use the URL above
<bobweaver> cool so like the Ubuntu TV one
<bobweaver> << n00b
<mhall119> yeah, all Launchpad projects work this way
<bobweaver> alright next quetion :
<bobweaver> do you know of any copywrite tools for gpl
<bobweaver> like that add to the top of each page ?
<mhall119> what kind of tools?
<mhall119> oh, no, I usually just include a COPYING file in the branch root
<bobweaver> it is a pain in the a%% to go into each one and add the canonical branding licence
<bobweaver> let me show you a example
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/u2t/dailybuilds/view/head:/shell/common/PictureGlowButton.qml
<bobweaver> see how I did that even though I wrote that code
<bobweaver> I was just copy and pasteing all files pain the the but
<bobweaver> I was going to make sed script but did not know if tools are out there
<bobweaver> Or if that is the prefereed way that canonical likes to see things
<mhall119> there might be, it's likely even, but I don't know of any
<bobweaver> I mean if it is a Core app then I should include canonicals name in file
<bobweaver> << lost
<mhall119> if there's a preferred way, it would be what Debian prefers
<mhall119> no, if it's not Canonical's code, it's not copyrighted to us
<bobweaver> ok
<mhall119> Copyright attribution should be to the author or originating organization
<mhall119> we don't require copyright assignment for the core apps either, just a broad license
<mhall119> see http://www.canonical.com/contributors
<bobweaver> thanks
<mhall119> np
<bobweaver> I will ask question about putting in "header " in motu maybe there is thing
<bobweaver> I did not know about "wrapandsort" before I asked
<bobweaver> mhall119,  ok I am looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Weather   and it changed again
<mhall119> what changed?
<bobweaver> The whole thing
<bobweaver> there was no pictures like that and there is alot more info
<bobweaver> I just sent mika a pm  asking him for that artwork
<bobweaver> piece by piece if he has them
<mhall119> that's what the design team just released
<mhall119> there's no more information other than the images
<bobweaver> the api stuff
<bobweaver> That looks new also
<bobweaver> could be wrong
<bobweaver> but I have backend done
<bobweaver> op mika is pming me back
<bobweaver> <mika> hey, you're searching for a different mika :)
<mhall119> heh
<bobweaver> email then unless you all know how to get a hold of him popey  mhall119   ?
<mhall119> 8:30pm on a Friday? email's your best option
<bobweaver> that suxx
#ubuntu-tv 2015-02-13
<Lionpanda> Bounty created : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntutv/+bug/1416530?comments=all
<Lionpanda> leaves.
