#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-18
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mark76> Afternoon
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: installed 32bit yesterday, 64bit today. both alternate and desktop each day, working as far as installs.
<charlie-tca> will test maverick to natty upgrade today, mvo said he fixed the bug
<MisterJones> i did a meverick to natty upgrade and it worked fine here 64 bit 
<charlie-tca> MisterJones: did you check if gnome-panel installed? apt-cache policy gnome-panel
<MisterJones> that i did not 
<charlie-tca> That's what we are looking for now. upgrades pulling in all of gnome
<MisterJones> when i ran the upgrade i didnt see it pull gnome-panel or things of that nature 
<charlie-tca> when did you run it?
<MisterJones> last wednesday or thursday 
<charlie-tca> Unless you had xfce4-indicator-plugin installed in maverick, it pulled in gnome
<MisterJones> ok 
<mr_pouit> okay, glad to hear
<mr_pouit> \o
<mr_pouit> I fixed an annoying (security) issue in the latest thunar upload. Now you should be able to copy/move files containing '%' in their name
<charlie-tca> Great
<charlie-tca> Want anything else tested?
<charlie-tca> I want to send the ss
<charlie-tca> I want to send the shutdown bug upstream. I saw someone in Arch saying they saw it too with Xfce 4.8
<mr_pouit> I'll upload in a few hours a fixed xfce4-power-manager (we forgot to ship one binary that sets the brightness...)
<charlie-tca> I saw that. At least we get it before release
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: this one looks like a bad interaction between xfce4-session and xserver 1.10
<charlie-tca> heh, I am surprised that is all you missed. You been working hard trying to keep 4.8 up
<mr_pouit> not easy to reproduce, I think xorg is crashing
<charlie-tca> The shutdown to gdm thing?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<charlie-tca> Okay. That is already reported to xfce, too.
<mr_pouit> xfce4-session does something that makes xorg crash
<mr_pouit> and so it can't finish its job to shutdown/reboot before the crash
<charlie-tca> I can go find that bug again, and add it as upstream report 
<charlie-tca> It is being tracked by the release manager, so I want to try and mark it as something being followed up on
<mr_pouit> I don't know why apport doesn't ctach anything though
<mr_pouit> *catch
<charlie-tca> Is it an assert crash, by chance?
<charlie-tca> I saw it one time during testing of beta2, I wonder if I try enouyg
<charlie-tca> enough times, can I get a backtrace for it manually?
<mr_pouit> I think you have to ask xorg to generate a core file when it crashes
<mr_pouit> usually by passing "-core" to its command line
<charlie-tca> That is probably true. It is not easy to get everything
<mr_pouit> but with gdm3, I don't know how to change the command line used to start X
<charlie-tca> I will try to dig something up
<charlie-tca> Not sure there will be much we can do, but we are at least aware of the problem
<mr_pouit> yeah, I think it won't be fixed for the release
<mr_pouit> it's the kind of "annoying but not really grave" issues
<charlie-tca> I agree
<charlie-tca> I just hope to move it off the radar, so we don't get pushed to do something about it
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I think it is https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7442
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7442 in General "xfdesktop crash on exit with xorg-server 1.10" [Critical,New]
<mr_pouit> +1
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<mr_pouit> it doesn't seem limited to some hw, as they write about ati, nvidia, etc...
<charlie-tca> exactly. I have seen it on intel, ati, and nvidia, along with virtual box
<charlie-tca> and the three reports referenced in the last comment all describe the same thing we see
<mr_pouit> I haven't been able to reproduce it in virtualbox for several weeks
<mr_pouit> bad luck :p
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> such things happen. Like I said, I saw it once in beta2
<charlie-tca> out of, maybe, 24 installs
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: does translations team do the slideshow? bug 758739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758739 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Natty) "ubiquity slideshow not translated during xubuntu wubi installation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758739
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: mvo did get the upgrades fixed. No longer pulling in gnome
<charlie-tca> Now I got to reproduce the failure to show upgrade with -d bug, and that is about a 6 hour upgrade
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-19
<Aquina> 'llo
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: hey. Did you check the translations for the slideshow today?
<mr_pouit> I think a new upload was done yesterday, and it should include more translations
<charlie-tca> no. I have to have jibel check them, I think. I can't read french
<mr_pouit> hehe
<charlie-tca> I can check in korean, though
<mr_pouit> it was only for French?
<charlie-tca> No, that was the one he used
<charlie-tca> I think it was all translations
<charlie-tca> I believe there were several languages looked at
<charlie-tca> I will give it a go today. Got a nomal desktop install running now
<mr_pouit> yep, I looked at the French translations when the bug was filed: everything was translated as "proposed", but not validated yet
<charlie-tca> Then we should be in good shape now?
<mr_pouit> I don't know, maybe nobody validated them?
<charlie-tca> I will try it to verify. I guess I can look and see if it is english in any language, right?
<charlie-tca> It is a test machine, so if I hit the wrong button, it won't matter
<charlie-tca> Translations did mark the bug triaged
<mr_pouit> I'm looking at the changes in yesterday's upload
<mr_pouit> ast.po
<charlie-tca> I will go look at a few languages today, then
<mr_pouit> bs.po, ca.po
<charlie-tca> I can run the install up to the slideshow and see if it is translated in some of the major languages, at least
<mr_pouit> da.po, el.po, en_*.po, etc.
<mr_pouit> and fr.po has been updated, and it looks like the bug is fixed
<mr_pouit> but very few languages will have complete translations apparently for our slides :/
<charlie-tca> Great! You know how to read those things, I have to actually try it to do that.
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu translates the text only, the images are all in English
<charlie-tca> But, he said there were only two lines translated dur
<charlie-tca> ing testing
<mr_pouit> yep, but they translated (all|most) strings now
<charlie-tca> That counts. 
<charlie-tca> If some text is still not translated, it should be okay
<charlie-tca> At least we get most of it in the readers language
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: slideshow is fully translated in german
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: two paragraphs only translated in Korean
<aroman> hey everyone. can anyone tell me a little about/point me to somewhere I can learn about how Xubuntu takes Ubuntu and turns it into Xubuntu?
<TheSheep> aroman: um, it doesn't?
<aroman> TheSheep: hmm?
<aroman> I mean the process by which an ubuntu base becomes xubuntu
<TheSheep> apt-get install xubuntu-desktop ;)
<holstein> aroman: have you checked out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization ?
<aroman> holstein: I'm looking for what Xubuntu does like that.
<aroman> like some tarball or launchpad project that has the scripts that create a Xubuntu liveCD
<aroman> not just the desktop metapackage
<charlie-tca> Check the manifest on the livecd
<aroman> will do. downloading a Xubuntu iso now.
<charlie-tca> This gives the logs from the daily build, too - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/natty/
<charlie-tca> which might be more confusing than helpful
<charlie-tca> !manifest
<aroman> charlie-tca: I think what I can take away from this is that I need to investigate "germinate"
<charlie-tca> Here is what 10.10 was built from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseManifestOverview
<charlie-tca> We are under "Flavors"
<aroman> charlie-tca: so basically just a lot of packages?
<charlie-tca> yes
<aroman> I'm curious about how Xubuntu customizes things like the boot splash
<charlie-tca> by picking and choosing packages, and making sure that there are packages to make things work with each other
<charlie-tca> That would be in bazaar
<aroman> does Xubuntu fork that package and then install it via that manifest file?
<aroman> charlie-tca: ah, where could I find that exactly?
<charlie-tca> um, no, we don't fork the package, we build a list of every package we want installed that is in Ubuntu's repositories
<aroman> charlie-tca: right, but surely there are things that aren't packaged as standard xfce or ubuntu stuff.
<aroman> like Xubuntu specific branding
<aroman> how does that get applied to the LiveCD?
<charlie-tca> As an official derivative, we are using ubuntu repositories. If the package doesn't exist there, we do not use it
<charlie-tca> We create a package for the specifics, usually as part of the Ubuntu package
<charlie-tca> rather, based on the ubuntu package
<aroman> ah
<aroman> and that ubuntu package "brands" the OS properly?
<charlie-tca> but, every package we use must be available to Ubuntu, also
<aroman> like via postinst or something
<charlie-tca> yes, for example, the slideshows
<aroman> okay now I'm getting it.
<charlie-tca> ubuntu uses ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<charlie-tca> we use ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu
<charlie-tca> kubuntu uses ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu
<aroman> and that includes the artwork/branding for xubuntu, and when installing the package it installs the files?
<charlie-tca> yes
<aroman> gotcha
<charlie-tca> It is all built in bzr, first
<aroman> so I think what I need is to see where the xubuntu package with all the postinst stuff lives
<aroman> I didn't see code at https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop
<charlie-tca> let me see if I can remember where to look
<aroman> excellent, I appreciate that
<charlie-tca> I think - 
<charlie-tca> bzr branch lp:xubuntu
<charlie-tca> but I won't take bets on it
<charlie-tca> I don't do any proh
<aroman> no dice I'm afriad
<aroman> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/xubuntu": no supported schemes
<charlie-tca> I don't do any programming, myself
<aroman> ah
<aroman> charlie-tca: I think I've found the goodies: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev
<charlie-tca> there is also branches for /xubuntu-docs
<charlie-tca> and /xubuntu-artwork
<charlie-tca> Well, maybe I got you pointed there, at least, then
<aroman> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art
<aroman> yep :)
<charlie-tca> Like I say, not doing any packaging or coding makes it harder to find things, sometimes
<aroman> yeah no worries
<aroman> I think I've got what I came in search of
<aroman> charlie-tca: thanks a ton for your help :)
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> no problem, glad we got you in the right direction, anyway!
<Unit193> trigger-rally, gl-117 and gnibbles all crash in Xubuntu 11.04, would this be an OpenGL (or something like that) issue? (No, I don't only do games)
<TheSheep> wrong channel :)
<TheSheep> !+1
<TheSheep> !ubuntu+1
<ubottu> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04 - Natty is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+1
<Unit193> Eh, didn't know if it was some dev thing...
 * Unit193 fails
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-20
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<holstein> charlie-tca: o/
<charlie-tca> alternate images install good today; all desktop images for Ubuntu and Xubuntu fail to install
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-21
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do Mondays work for you for meetings?
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Good morning, davmor2 
<charlie-tca> Both desktop images are broken again today for Ubuntu and Xubuntu.
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: are you in here?
<knome> charlie-tca, are we having a meeting today?
<charlie-tca> Made it back now
<charlie-tca> knome: nope, seems not
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> We need to look at monday meeting times, but it looks bad for times earlier than 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> That seems late in europe, to me, at least
<knome> that's not completely out of question for me, but i don't know about others
<charlie-tca> yeah, 
<charlie-tca> Maybe look at holding the meeting in this channel instead. 
<knome> i think that might work a bit better
<knome> this channel is quite quiet and we are not a *big* bunch of people whatsoever
<charlie-tca> I am leaning towards that as a workable solution. Then we can have any time we need
<knome> yes, maybe even impromptu (of course not for votes, but...)
<charlie-tca> I can always request a meeting bot for here, too
<knome> that's not a hard requirement though
<charlie-tca> no, it just makes the minutes easier
<knome> yeah, another way is just to write down the notes as we go
<knome> which also would mean we would have it on the wiki right away
<charlie-tca> The channel is logged, it just isn't as easy
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-22
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> <arand> Anyone care to test the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/711571 ?
<charlie-tca> <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 711571 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce Shutdown/Restart doesn't work (logout instead)" [Low,Triaged]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 711571 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce Shutdown/Restart doesn't work (logout instead)" [Low,Triaged]
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-23
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<lostson> good morning to you too sir 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-04-24
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<holstein> charlie-tca: o/
<charlie-tca> Hello, holstein 
<holstein> all is well?
<charlie-tca> yes, thanks. Got the direct TV stuff working for movies, kids are happy again
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: their attention span is too long for you? :)
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> I'm too old for that now, I guess
<holstein> ive been looking into direct TV a bit
<holstein> as a alternative to cable
<holstein> an*
<holstein> i have a roku box for netflix streaming which is nice
<charlie-tca> I can't access my own email accounts with cableOne, so I keep my internet and tv through Qwest, the phone company
 * charlie-tca has called CableOne on email settings, can not send out through anything except their email accounts.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-16
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2012/04/16/looking-towards-xubuntu-q/
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> btw small type: documetation
<ochosi> i agree with all those points, well written knome 
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether the meetings should simply be set in advance for the whole cycle
<knome> typo fixed
<ochosi> the main disadvantage of having them on a set date is the fact that it might be bad for one or two specific people
<knome> probably yes..
<knome> yeah, that's so true
<ochosi> s/date/day
<ochosi> so maybe something like cycling weekdays?
<ochosi> or at least alternating weekdays every odd/even week?
<knome> didn't we try that?
<ochosi> dunno :)
<knome> alternating between sunday and monday
<ochosi> yeah, dunno if sunday is really a good day for a meeting
<knome> probably not for most
<knome> otoh, weekend is good in the timezone-aspect, because people can prolly stay up longer
<madnick> I often wondered why mon-fri every week, can't be one long e-mail meeting, with an agenda etc, that way everyone is able to participate
<knome> email has a long delay sometimes
<knome> better to have a meeting so all are available at the same time
<knome> usage of the ML is of course encouraged if you want feedback outside the meeting times
<ochosi> yeah, even a forum (!) would be better than email
<knome> i mean, no reason to not use the ML just because we have meetings :)
<knome> pleia2, i wonder if you could get more publicity for that, eg. in the ubuntu "magazines" or so
<pleia2> knome: I've been put in contact with an editor for Ubuntu User, one of my article proposals was an interview with you ;)
<knome> pleia2, heh, that's fine as well ;)
<pleia2> might just be a post in their blog for now rather than a printed article since I'm not a for real journalist, but it's something
<knome> heh
<GridCube> knome, im gonna install 12.04 on my netbook to use it daily and see if theres any bugs around :3
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-17
<ochosi> morning everyone
<knome> hello here too :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> trying to get unity-support finalized for greybird
<ochosi> the theming-side of it is fine
<knome> uhoh
<ochosi> i just need to get it to show up in the theme-selector
<knome> trying to get it in precise now, or in -proposed ?
<knome> ah, so it's that close to finished :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit said he wants it in -proposed
<ochosi> so that's why i'm not hurrying too much
<knome> ok, sounds good
<ochosi> but i got the basics tested by carnau 
<ochosi> (should probably try to find at least a second person to look at it)
<knome> or more, i can tweet if you have simple instructions to save to wiki or website or so
<ochosi> oh, that sounds like a good idea
<carnau> ochosi, Â¿Why u don't use virtualbox?
<ochosi> well atm the theme doesn't show in the theme-selector, so the instructions aren't that simple yet
<knome> does anybody know if the other admin of the G+ group is ever on irc?
<knome> that would be useful
<ochosi> carnau: for one, it's a bit different than a real install
<knome> carnau, more eyes = better testing
<ochosi> carnau: the other thing is that i did test greybird in a vbox at first and ~beta1 i switched to a real install
<knome> i can test a thing 20 times and ignore a glitch, then ochosi looks at it once and he goes "OMG!"
<ochosi> carnau: just haven't installed unity yet because i didn't want to compromise the xubuntu testing environment
<carnau> knome, sure, don't tell me. I'm a web developer :)
 * ochosi doesn't like glitches
<knome> carnau, me too ;)
<knome> ...among other things
<carnau> ochosi, ok, I'll try to ask in #Ubuntu-es
<ochosi> carnau: thanks!
<carnau> ochosi, well if someone contacts me, I'll ping you.
<ochosi> carnau: ok, ty
<ochosi> carnau, knome: the list of themes in unity is hardcoded :} you _have_ to use ubuntu-tweak (or whatever it's called) to change your theme to anything not hardcoded into unity
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so much for unity-support ^ :}
<ochosi> pleia2: ping
<mr_pouit> ochosi: awesome
<ochosi> the reason they gave me was that gnome doesn't support switching themes yet so it wasn't a priority for them to do that this release
<ochosi> unity will feel pre-windowsxp
<ochosi> (at least in this respect)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: what I was told was "harcoded list -> design decision"
<mr_pouit> (and indeed, a comparison with gnome3 that doesn't allow theme switching)
<ochosi> yes, well they seemed open to changing that for Q
<mr_pouit> who cares ;>
<ochosi> yeah, i don't really
<ochosi> but i'll still probably publish a blog-post about it
<ochosi> it's nice to emphasize how great unity is in this respect
<mr_pouit> s/unity/so-called design decision/
<ochosi> yeah
<mr_pouit> (sometimes I feel it's just a good excuse to impose randomly some arbitrary things)
<mr_pouit> maybe I should start an experimental ppa for 4.10 on precise
<ochosi> yes! yes!
<ochosi> :)
<mr_pouit> with a big, fat disclaimer "if you install that and then complain, you cat will go on a rampage, format your drive and install openbsd"
<mr_pouit> *your
<ochosi> hehe
<mr_pouit> I'll upload that tonight (xfce 4.10pre2 core, so all panel plugins will break)
<ochosi> hihi
<ochosi> but i think -final is supposed to be released in a week or so, no?
<mr_pouit> 28/04 I think
<ochosi> pretty much same day as the xubuntu release then
<carnau> ochosi, augh, sounds bad
<ochosi> carnau: welcome to unity
<carnau> it's like apple, 30 devices, 1 GUI.
<carnau> if you want to customize it, f**** you, you only will  have what Steve Jobs designed. Like a dictatorship.
<knome> carnau, watch your language, even obfuscated
<carnau> knome, sorry, it burns my veins :_( nvm
<ochosi> knome: i thought i could blog about unity's definciency in terms of setting themes and explain how you can use greybird in unity on xubuntu.org > planet.ubuntu
<ochosi> knome: or would you rather see that on g+ ?
<ochosi> pleia2: ^
<knome> ochosi, website is fine, we can repost in twitter and g+
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> was mainly wondering whether you consider it too far offtopic
<ochosi> mr_pouit: if you don't mind i'll merge the unity branch back to gtk3.3 and you can upload that anytime then
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'll even give you a new tag ;)
<knome> well, add some stuff generally about greybird too, and it's fine
<mr_pouit> yay
<ochosi> but you want this for -proposed, right?
<mr_pouit> yep, so no hurry
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, done :)
<ochosi> say hello to greybird 0.8
<ochosi> we even support gnome metathemes now
<ochosi> (i.e. setting gtk-theme, icon-theme, cursor-theme and metacity at once)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: wasn't hurrying anyway, the only blocker was the fact that the theme didnt show in unity's theme selector, but now that that's clear...
<carnau> ochosi, instead gnome-tweak-tool, you can use MyUnity app.
<pleia2> knome: I'll play you during the derivatives plenary
<knome> pleia2, ok;)
<pleia2> ochosi: it feels a bit off-topic to me, but if you promise not to use the phrase "unity's definciency" I think it's ok ;)
<pleia2> (we don't want to come off as combative, we're all friends in this *buntu world)
<pleia2> and unity improves a lot with every release, even if it's still a deficiency now I don't anticipate it will be for long
<ochosi> pleia2: no, sure, i don't plan on writing anything flamy. but it's a bit odd to me that such a basic feature is missing and sold as "design decision". but anyway, you'll read it before it's published ;)
<knome> pleia2, you there?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/sneakpeek.png
<knome> pleia2, ochosi ^
<pleia2> ooh, what plugin?
<knome> knome's best ever translation plugin
<pleia2> :)
 * pleia2 forks over the cash
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, i'm trying to make it really clean
<jussi> ooh, can I have that? (assuming wp)
<jussi> :D
<knome> jussi, it's 1000â¬ for you
<knome> plus vat
<jussi> bugger!
<knome> ;)
<knome> well, let's see when it's ready
<knome> right now you can't do anything, but most of the so called "infrastructure" is ready
<ochosi> knome: seriously, you wrote a translation/multilang-plugin?
<knome> ochosi, i'm on it
<knome> it's pretty much coding now though
<knome> plus some headache on the rewrites ;)
<ochosi> wow
<ochosi> i'm amazed
<ochosi> that's something you can sell for $$$ if it works well
<ochosi> gah, low battery
<knome> i know
<ochosi> you know that i'm running out of battery?
<ochosi> how?
<knome> i know i can sell it for $$$ :P
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> though...
<ochosi> k, g2g
<knome> well, let's say i've not decided yet what to do with it ;)
<ochosi> see ya tomorrow
<knome> see you
<knome> i'm off too
<knome> see you tomorrow
<Unit193> Adios.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-18
<mr_pouit> http://sourceforge.net/projects/babble777.u/files/xfce-4.10-daily/Ubuntu%2012.04/
<mr_pouit> *g*
<mr_pouit> "* Converted from .tgz format to .deb by alien version 8.85"
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> very nice
<ochosi> i hope we get a lot of bugreports about that ;)
<knome> ok, now you are able to manage languages...
<knome> bbl
<Saurabh_123> Hello, will xubuntu 12.04 final include xfce 4.10?
<mr_pouit> hi, no, it will include Xfce 4.8 plus some features backported from 4.10
<Saurabh_123> ok
<Saurabh_123> mr_pouit, is there a way to install mintmenu in xubuntu?
<Saurabh_123> I tried installing, but there a lot of missing dependencies
<mr_pouit> I guess someone made a ppa for that. Try to ask in classic support channels, people may know
<Saurabh_123> I tried the ppa, but its not working in xubuntu 12.04
<Saurabh_123> anyways, who sponsors Xubuntu?
<mr_pouit> it's community-maintained, so I guess nobody.
<astraljava> Who's taking care of the Xubuntu Testers team nowadays? Charlie hasn't responded to that one application we got an email of in a timely manner like he used to.
<astraljava> Oh, oops.
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: hi, i maybe have found a grafical issue in the latest xubuntu
<leo-unglaub> in the autio options it's sometimes not easy to tell if am option is checke or not
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey, mind to take a quick screenshot of what you mean?
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: http://img802.imageshack.us/i/auswahl001.png/ <- clicked
<leo-unglaub> http://img72.imageshack.us/i/auswahl002a.png/ <- not clicked
<leo-unglaub> Ã¤h, different way
<leo-unglaub> first is not clicken and the secound is cliocken
<ochosi> yeah, looks like they don't use the normal button theming there
<ochosi> i noticed problems with that dialog before
<ochosi> i.e. there's a different background-color inside the tab
<ochosi> haven't had time to investigate this
<ochosi> in fact it would mean starting to read pavucontrol's code
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: try to unfocus the toggle-button, then it looks ok
<ochosi> (e.g. hit tab)
<leo-unglaub> hmmm, no, it only looks normal if i unfocus the complete window
<ochosi> are you sure?
<ochosi> i'd have to check in precise to be sure, but in oneiric i see the same behavior
<ochosi> you can also check by using another tab and after activating mute clicking e.g. a combobox
<ochosi> hmm, the bg-color issue seems to come from a lot of packing (hboxes in alignments and scrolledwindows etc.)
<ochosi> i guess i could try to add those widgets directly, but it's odd that they don't inherit the color from the gtknotebook
<carnau> ochosi, http://i.imgur.com/NKUzb.png
<carnau> take in care that i'm not designer. i think it's more clear if the bg is brighter.
<ochosi> carnau: ah right, that shouldn't be like this. i have to add theming for the gtkscale within a menu then
<astraljava> *gah* There's a _really small_ quota on how many to contact through LP. Uncool, as many don't make their email public, and so when you have pending memberships, how can you contact them for asking further info?
<ochosi> not at all?
<astraljava> Yep, that's how.
<ochosi> carnau: would you have time to test a quick fix?
<carnau> yes
<ochosi> ok, then i'll take a quick stab at it
<carnau> ok
<carnau> i'm free until barcelona plays tonight :-)
<ochosi> hehe
<carnau> well, i have to do some math too
<carnau> maybe at 19pm
<ochosi> carnau: ok, a quick something is in the unity-branch now
<ochosi> (you might have to restart unity again)
<carnau> don't remember the url
<ochosi> ok, one sec
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/unity
<carnau> ochosi, it's done, what i have to test?
<ochosi> the indicator that you showed me in your screenshot?
<carnau> it's in the same colo
<carnau> *color
<ochosi> hm ok
<ochosi> that's unfortunate
<ochosi> have to take a closer look then
<carnau> ok
<astraljava> knome: micahg: Who else is in Xubuntu Team; may I have a word at some point about the policy of our Testers group? I'm not sure it needs to be a moderated one. But I'm off for a while now, just ping me when you have time/wanna talk about it.
<pleia2> astraljava: charlie-tca is still the leader of that until the release, so I'm thinking we discuss it after that as we have to work to re-organize the team
<ochosi> carnau: mind to try again?
<carnau> ok
<astraljava> pleia2: Yeah I'm okay with that.
<carnau> ochosi, no, don't changed
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> i fear i might have to install unity myself to test :'(
<pleia2> (fwiw, I tend to agree, I just don't want to rock the boat just before he steps down, I'm not sure what caused him to leave so abruptly but I don't want to upset him more)
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<ochosi> carnau: one last try?
<ochosi> carnau: btw, could you check that you really downloaded/extracted the archive correctly?
<ochosi> carnau: unity.css should look like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/935656/
<carnau> ok, give me a second to do it
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> as you can see i'd rather have you jump through the hoops than install unity myself ;)
<carnau> yes, i saw it :p
<carnau> file downloaded: shimmerproject-Greybird-v0.8-3-gbd178f3.tar.gz
<carnau> css file: http://pastebin.com/DFxkkA0j
<carnau> restarting session...
<carnau> ochosi, i promise you that it have the same color
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'm tapping in the dark a bit, because i don't know what kind of widget/object hierarchy the gtk3 indicator menus have
<carnau> there is no doc?
<carnau> is there*
<ochosi> not really, i only have ambiance that i can take a look at
<ochosi> and since they use orange (which works on dark and bright bg) they don't theme that specifically
<carnau> ok, i understand.
<carnau> really, i never made a theme
<carnau> don't know how it works
<ochosi> so all i can do is guess where the scale is in the widget hierarchy (or read indicator code)
<carnau> well, i'm going to play IRacing now, maybe we can test it later? or tomorrow?
<ochosi> carnau: hm, wait one sec?
<carnau> ok
<ochosi> thanks, i'm talking to the ambiance author right now
<ochosi> ok, i hope it works *now*
<ochosi> carnau: ^
<ochosi> (keeping fingers crossed)
<carnau> let's see
<ochosi> so, does it look any different?
<carnau> do you have a b plan?
<ochosi> no, this really should work
<ochosi> plan b is to install unity myself and test it myself ;)
<carnau> just kidding ;-) http://i.imgur.com/9oIeK.png
<ochosi> phew ;)
<ochosi> ok, now i can start to tweak that theming to look normal
<carnau> great
<ochosi> will you be around tomorrow or sometime before the big game again?
<carnau> i don't know if i will be tonight, but i'm sure that I will be here tomorrow. I have to work hahahaah
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, tomorrow is early enough
<ochosi> i'll tweak this a bit and you can test it tomorrow
<ochosi> carnau: enjoy the game/s and thanks for testing
<carnau> ok, no problem. I will be here from 8 to 13 or so
<carnau> i live in spain gmt +2
<carnau> sure, hope we can beat chelsea :-)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> "you" lost yesterday, and the bavarians were really playing better football
<carnau> no problem for testing, i've used xfce a lot for some of my desktops. It's good to reward this with some testing :-)
<ochosi> nice
<carnau> i'm fcb supporter. I'm happy that bayern won yesterday :-)
<carnau> very very happy!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> carnau: ok, the last changes are pushed, so feel free to test whenever and ping me tomorrow
<carnau> ok!
<Unit193> astraljava: You're it.
<astraljava> I'm what? I've been called many things, but never 'it'.
<Unit193> Question hours ago, you get main tester next cycle. :D
<astraljava> Unit193: Yeah, right. Well we haven't discussed that, yet. I'm the QA contact person, but that's still different from a team lead. I can imagine knome and others having a differing opinion.
<jussi> Unit193: fail. astraljava belongs to me next cycle
<Unit193> Bawh, that's no good....
<Unit193> And \o jussi
<jussi> hi, and bye... its bedtime
<astraljava> He's hallucinating again. He's confusing me with the sheep. Poor lad.
<Unit193> Nighty, night.
 * micahg wonders what jussi is running next cycle
<astraljava> treadmill?
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> testing 4.10 currently in precise
<astraljava> Ooh... how does it look?
<Unit193> It is great, from what I've seen.
<ochosi> it looks and works great
<Unit193> Yea, you saw the screenshot album?
<ochosi> Unit193: what screenshot-album?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-19
<Unit193> Was in offtopic.
<carnau> ochosi, ping
<ochosi> carnau: pong
<carnau> ochosi, http://i.imgur.com/raC3e.png
<ochosi> yay
<ochosi> just as planned
<carnau> looks great!
<ochosi> could you do me a favor and mute?
<carnau> sure
<ochosi> how does that look?
<carnau> good
<carnau> icon blinks in blue when sound can't be reproduced
<ochosi> hm, no i mean the volume bar
<ochosi> it should be insensitive
<ochosi> therefore a different coloring
<carnau> http://i.imgur.com/8EImC.png
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> ok, well in this case that's fine :)
<carnau> good :)
<ochosi> i thought the color of the bar just changes when muted
<ochosi> if you come acress any other oddities with unity feel free to let me know
<ochosi> but i think now we got most of it covered
<carnau> ok
<ochosi> oh, one last thing, would you mind to take a few more screenshots of your unity desktop with greybird? i'm planning to write a blogpost so i could use some screeners
<carnau> yes, tell me what u want
<carnau> anything in particular? nautilus, ff, rhythmbox?
<ochosi> hmm, first a pic of the desktop with only the dash open maybe?
<ochosi> (that's kinda the trademark screenshot)
<ochosi> then maybe rhythmbox with the soundmenu open at the same time (that's the one you sent me the latest screenshots of)
<knome> just for the record, i prefer liberation mono as the terminal font
<ochosi> knome: you mean you prefer it to droid sans mono?
<knome> yes
<ochosi> because it's more round and terminaly?
<ochosi> and the zeros have dots inside :)
<carnau> Ok, i take it in mind. Now I have to work a little more. Ping you later :-)
<knome> it's just more terminaly, and the bold text works better even in small sizes
<knome> astraljava, i've been thinking the same about -testers too, and hold any changes until the end of the release
<ochosi> carnau: sure, thanks a lot again! (also, if you want to be tributed with your full name for the screenshots, please let me know your full name)
<carnau> don't worry, I don't care
<ochosi> ok, you can also remain anonymous
<ochosi> in that case i'd blue your username in the panel
<ochosi> (although "carlos" doesn't really give away too much ;))
<ochosi> knome: yeah, the font looks nice. i haven't played much with terminal fonts so far
<knome> astraljava, i wouldn't mind handing you a team leading position, but what would that be? QA lead maybe, which partly would include testing too
<knome> Unit193, astraljava: being the testing lead, or QA lead doesn't mean you are the "main tester" though, i don't expect anybody to do most of the tests
<knome> it should be a community task
<knome> http://www.muktware.com/articles/3539/quick-preview-xubuntu-1204-precise-pangolin-video
<knome> pleia2, for the press ^
<ochosi> knome: i think i agree on the term-font
<ochosi> knome: maybe put it on the roadmap (review term-font)
<knome> ochosi, done
<knome> review terminal theming meaning we could try to get more feedback about the color scheme
<ochosi> yeah sounds good
<ochosi> i guess there are certain apps that use a lot of colors potentially (vim,mutt) that should be reviewed more
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> would you like to start writing a specification for that?
<ochosi> sorry, no time today
<ochosi> and i'm not a mutt user ;)
<knome> ok, i will gather those ideas then ;)
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i just saw the maximize icon (+) in our xfwm4 theme looks odd when without the minimize or close icon
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> it's very rare that it's the only window-icon, but if it happens, it looks weird
<knome> heh
<ochosi> maybe we should go for the two opposing arrows
<ochosi> even though people might rant because apple (and youtube, and...) use that as well
<ochosi> (oh wait, youtube changed the fullscreen icon again)
<knome> hahah
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Q/TerminalThemeReview
<knome> pleia2, we need to get together to work with the slides for UDS plenary
<knome> pleia2, and oh my, there's an old xubuntu logo on your site :P
<ochosi> oh btw, another idea for the roadmap before i go (for today): assemble a list of apps we want to show in the settings-manager
<ochosi> e.g. nvidia-settings, bluetooth-settings, language-support, scim-support etc.
<ochosi> (12.10 will have xfce4.10's new settings manager, so this'd be feasible)
<knome> right
<knome> bbl
<mr_pouit> +1, I was thinking about that yesterday
<mr_pouit> it uses a menu file, so we can also customize it like we do for the main menu
<knome> mr_pouit, +1 because you thought about it too?
 * knome hides
<mr_pouit> exactly :p
<knome> no, i think that's sensible too
<knome> mr_pouit, want to be the assignee?
 * knome stays in the hideout
<mr_pouit> no :P
<knome> so, who is? :P
<knome> i can ask edii...
<knome> that's relatively trivial though, isn't it?
<mr_pouit> I'll probably write the menu file anyway, but someone else has to think about what we want in the settings' dialog ;-)
<knome> so, probably a low-hanging fruit
<knome> ;]
 * knome is off for lunch-dinner
<sladen> http://design.canonical.com/2012/04/pebble-watch-and-ubuntu/ <-- XFCE people
<ochosi> sladen: yup, to be more exact he seems to be using xubuntu (at least he's using my/our default theme) :)
<sladen> ochosi: thanks, I was going to ask that (but they're on US time).  Happy enough if I tweak it just to say "Xubuntu" ?
<ochosi> sladen: sure sure :)
<ochosi> sladen: and thanks a lot for stopping by for this! i just saw that by accident on the planet
<sladen> ochosi: I held back on it overnight until they'd reached the $5m mark (and also because I put out something else earlier in the day too)
<ochosi> sladen: mm cool, have to say $5m is pretty impressive. and on a sidenote, that seems to be a really cool watch that i'd consider getting (if affordable)
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, I'm with you on that one. But let's talk about that when the cycle is over.
<astraljava> I gotta get to the game (well, just the sports bar across the street) :D
<pleia2> knome: yeah, there is only like 2-3 slides so it should be easy
<pleia2> (and yeah, updating the logo on my site is on my todo list ;))
<olbi> hello
<olbi> final version of Xubuntu will be updated with newest files from xfce.org?
<baizon> hi
<baizon> no
<olbi> include translations?
<baizon> will be 4.8
<olbi> I mean 4.8 files in translations
<baizon> freeze already done
<baizon> a ok
<olbi> because I have found some bugs letters :P
<olbi> in polish language :]
<olbi> and fix it now
<olbi> Xfce 4.10 is even better in translating that 4.8 :P
<Unit193> And not just that either, but 4.10 won't make it in at all that I  know of.
<Unit193> Don't think they'd want to back port the entire DE.
<olbi> :P
<olbi> I was looking even https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+lang/pl/
<olbi> but there wasn't theses files, like xfce-session :P which has bugs
<olbi> which files have files from ubiquity installer for xubuntu?
<olbi> ok, got it :D
<olbi> ok, today I think I should update xfce 4.8 - thunnar translations, how long it take to upadate it in xubuntu 11.10 and xubuntu 12.04 LTS?
<baizon> what update?
<baizon> from 11.10 to 12.04 or just the xfce from 4.8 to 4.10?
<olbi> update translations files of xfce in xubuntu 11.10 and 12.04 lts :) after I upload newly translated po file
<baizon> :D
<olbi> :D
<olbi> it means very fast :]
<carnau> ochosi, ping
<pleia2> trying to duplicate that error seen on list
<pleia2> (I was "eeek" at that one reply, so figured I'd follow up)
<pleia2> getting my precise system all updated first though ;)
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, how much time was that the plenary again, and how much do you think you will be able to go through in that time?
<pleia2> 2.5 minutes
<pleia2> so not much :)
<knome> heh, yeah...
<pleia2> really just "some interesting plans for Q"
<pleia2> I figure I'll just use your blog post
<knome> http://beta.primarypad.com/p/xub-plenary
<knome> i'll try to build up something there
<pleia2> okie
<knome> pleia2, how does that look now?
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<knome> great
<knome> i'll put that in a pdf, or do you rather want some other format? ;)
<pleia2> we can add some tech notes too, like moving to 4.10 (I assume that'll be in the plans?)
<pleia2> any format is fine, I'll create some pretty xfce-brand slides in odp
<knome> yeah
<knome> xfce???
<knome> WHAT
<pleia2> err, xubuntu
<knome> haha
<knome> do you have a template?
<pleia2> the mouse head!
<pleia2> not yet
<knome> well... i do
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> ooh
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q.pdf
<knome> well, that, with our logo
<pleia2> oh yes, that's lovely
<knome> great, i'll push the content to that template them
<knome> *then
<pleia2> I love how jorge's email said "talk about what you've decided at UDS ... need your branded slides by say the week before UDS"
<pleia2> lucky for us we aren't deciding anything at UDS!
<knome> haha, lol ;)
<Unit193> I need to check and see if I care about any sessions...
<knome> huh, one can't copy master slides? :/
<knome> now i remember why i don't like impress
<pleia2> guess we'll have to write them in latex
<knome> >__<
<knome> naturally, slideshow measures are in... INCHES??!
<knome> yeah, i got this 24" screen, can you make the slideshow 24"? 
<knome> fsstt..
<knome> ah, now i get it
<knome> images original size is not original size
<knome> that's so logical
<pleia2> yeah, why would you think that? :P
<knome> the original size is just any size openoffice originally decided to paste the picture in
<knome> how was i so dumb
<knome> to make it easier for the user too, any white elements in svg's are made transparent too
<knome> because who ever wants white
<pleia2> most applications aren't very good at handling svg
<knome> yeah, why handle svg at all then?
<knome> i mean, that's just stupid
<knome> hmm
<knome> the master slides allow you to apply a style
<knome> but GOTCHA!
<knome> it's only applied to text areas with bullets
<knome> those who do not have bullets fallback to black arial 22
<knome> ta-dah!
<knome> because it is the only thing you ever wanted
<knome> oh right
<knome> you possibly should have known the best way is to set numbering to "none" on bullets
<knome> ah, i should have known
<knome> that's the "subtitle" element
<knome> which is only visible on the "styles and formatting" dock
<knome> wth
<knome> now one of my existing slides is borked ??
<knome> i have no idea why, but centered on two master slides look similar, but on actual slides, the slide with other master slide does "different" centering
<knome> which is not centered
<knome> hah, the font kerning is different in the different master slides now...
<knome> ARGH.
<knome> \o/
 * knome beats openoffice with some majestic big band playing on the background
<knome> pleia2, what was the day again?
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q-plenary.pdf
<pleia2> knome: it'll be thursday, so the 10th
<pleia2> of may
<pleia2> spiffy :)
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Haha, I *just* checked your idle/away time/status. :P
<knome> hah
<knome> pleia2, file updated for you
<pleia2> great :)
<knome> if you need anything else, just ping me
<knome> i can even provide you the OO files if you need
<pleia2> OO would be great in case jorge surprises me with something else he wants in it
<knome> haha
<knome> in the surprise-case... tell him to knock the door to my cave
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> and i will grumble a bit ;)
<pleia2> lol
<knome> no, i'll copy you the oo-file
<knome> it's in the same folder
<pleia2> 2012-04-19 16:41:19 (171 KB/s) - `xubuntu-q-plenary.odp' saved [221573/221573]
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> good, it can stay there though
<knome> at least before i remove it ;)
<knome> but that's probably not very soon
<pleia2> :)
 * pleia2 goes to replace ram in laptop
<knome> good luck
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-20
<knome> Unit193 is now officially a Ubuntu Member
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> and i'm officially to bed ->
<pleia2> night knome :)
<knome> oh, one more thing
<knome> https://twitter.com/#!/XubuntuLinux/status/193133295326867457
<knome> see you!
<skaet> knome, pleia2, madnick, astraljava, and others interested...  - have the template up for the ReleaseNotes for Xubuntu.   can you please fill in the template with the information you want to be handy to users, and accessible when we put out the point releases in future.  We'll be using this page to link updates to.   Insert any page references to your xubuntu site, documentation, etc. as you want.
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu#preview
<Unit193> Heh, typing fast. "Preparing your computer forXLubuntu" ;)
<skaet> Unit193 - hence request for help and editors....   :)   
<pleia2> thanks skaet :)
<Unit193> I hit tiny copy/paste ones, rest is up to people that know.
<jussi> micahg: running Currently 1 machine with Unity and one with KDE/Kubuntu. 
<baizon> yes, and?
<micahg> jussi: no, I meant that astraljava would be yours next cycle
<micahg> i.e. what are you running that you would grab astraljava
<jussi> micahg: a business :P
<micahg> heh, coool
<knome> skaet, will get to that today, thanks
<knome> work done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
<knome> pleia2, mr_pouit, others: can you review that ^ ?
<mr_pouit> "xfce4-settings has been updated to include the new mouche/touchpad dialog"
<mr_pouit> I think we carry this "mouche" since alpha 1
<knome> yeah?
<knome> we had the new branding and appearance improvement since who knows when, but they are still valid release notes ;)
<mr_pouit> I mean, mou*s*e
<mr_pouit> or did the English spelling change recently?
<knome> i think that's the application name?
<knome> at least i have thought so...
<mr_pouit> no no, it's "Mouse and Touchpad", really
<knome> if not.... D'OH
<knome> fixed
<knome> thanks
<mr_pouit> hihi
<knome> meh
<mr_pouit> maybe you want to use "installed by default" rather than "seeded"
<knome> mm
<astraljava> I understand there's not much to report to the release meeting?
<astraljava> I haven't noticed practically any activity, but then I could be wrong since I've been away quite a lot during the past week or so.
<knome> no, there's nothing really
<knome> we are obeying the freezes! \o/
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<astraljava> I'm sure they appreciate it.
<ochosi> carnau: pong
<carnau> ochosi, http://www.woofiles.com/dl-303085-YXgl52qE-Greybirdscreens.tar.gz
<carnau> I think I found a glitch in the software center, with the arrow navigation keys. There is an image with that, check it out.
<ochosi> carnau: hmm, somehow that site doesn't work for me
<ochosi> i mean the download
<ochosi> i always get a 177b archive
<carnau> ok, i'll search another free service
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> sendspace.com?
<carnau> http://filesbee.net/files/PPCYTOOV/Greybird_screens.tar.gz
<carnau> ochosi ^
<ochosi> carnau: what's wrong with the USC arrows?
<ochosi> wow, it's all so blue...
<ochosi> is that because of the wallpaper?
<mr_pouit> I think there's the code adapt notify-osd and the dash to the wp color
<mr_pouit> s/the//
<ochosi> mhm, doesn't look too nice imo
<ochosi> it's far too blue, at least with the 11.10 wallpaper
<ochosi> carnau: btw, don't wanna talk you into too much work, but would you mind re-taking those screenshots with the current wallpaper?
<pleia2> knome: added wallpaper to the list of new
<ochosi> knome: ping
<knome> ochosi, 
<GridCube> knome, im starting today's test for desktop i386 with autoresize
<knome> :)
<ochosi> knome: since you're not on g+ i'll quickly summarize
<knome> k
<GridCube> ookay it changed a 15% from yesterday, might take a while to zsync
<ochosi> they posted some gtkrc code to make the desktop-label-background transparent
<ochosi> we've discussed why we don't want that by default
<ochosi> but after replying to that thread i realized that i can add shadows to the text
<ochosi> so i'm currently trying that
<ochosi> as soon as i have some results i'll show you a screener
<knome> what if you don't have compositing enabled?
<knome> will the shadows still work
<GridCube> there should be a way to enable that from the desktop menu
<knome> enable what?
<GridCube> background text transparenciesses
<knome> well, i think that should be either transparent or not
<knome> allowing to change that from menu is superfluous
<GridCube> i think people should have the choise, its there after all
<knome> the choice is there already
<knome> so are numerous of other choices
<knome> but making them all visible for the user isn't the primary goal
<GridCube> but they are hidden
<GridCube> welp, thats true
<knome> generally, i think a good OS hides too many decisions from a user
<knome> just use sensible defaults, and the user doesn't need those
<GridCube> i pretty much dissagree
<GridCube> thats why i sincerily hate unity
<astraljava> knome: a _good_ OS hides _too many_ ... ? 
<knome> astraljava, yeah, too many for the user
<astraljava> You're not making much sense today. Have you been drinking, and more so than usual? :)
<GridCube> hidding options its the thing that drices me crazy the most
<knome> astraljava, i mean, a good OS hides the superfluous
<GridCube> s/drices/drives/
<knome> GridCube, maybe you should look into some other DE/OS then, really
<knome> because the philosophy behind pretty much both xfce and ubuntu is to hide most decisions from user
<knome> becuase the user shouldn't need to do those
<astraljava> Yeah well, it's a very subjective thing.
<knome> of course it is
<knome> OTOH, i *do* like the good configuration possibilities xfce offers me
<GridCube> knome, yes, i know, thats why i said "it should" because its something i would like
<knome> but xfce shows meaningful configuration
<GridCube> xfce didnt even has a menu configuration tool, we had to add alacarte because "people wanted it"
<astraljava> Think back a few years, the wars Linus caused by commenting on GNOME's decision. And I really have to agree with that. Dumbing down is a dangerous road. A good rule of thumb; design software idiot-proof, and only idiots will use it.
<knome> i don't think enabling transparent bg for desktop items is one of those
<knome> GridCube, sure.
<knome> GridCube, but that's a completely different thing than desktop item backgrounds for sure
<GridCube> knome, how so?
<GridCube> its a configuration, that many people want
<knome> GridCube, then we should think if we should make it the default
<GridCube> knome, no, because many people dont need it either, thats why it should be an option
<GridCube> its not just black or white
<knome> well, maybe it could be an option in the settings manager, but it definitely doesn't belong in the desktop menu
<GridCube> again, see how people reacts to unity, developer think "THIS IS HOW THINGS HAVE TO BE" like its the word of the gods from valhala, but people wants to customise to their tastes
<GridCube> knome, probably, it was just an option, like in the same place you choose if you want or not icons in the destop, you could have a tiny check mark that said, "transparent background for desktop icons []"
<knome> maybe
<knome> but the thing is
<knome> you can still enable transparent backgrounds
<knome> even if it's not visible in the menu
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> true
<ochosi> knome: compositing isn't needed for this kind of text-shadow, that's part of the murrine-engine
<knome> ochosi, okay, good
<knome> just making sure
<Unit193> GridCube: Have you had any internet issues in 32bit live?
<ochosi> but still, it's not unproblematic with different backgrounds (bright,dark)
<ochosi> i yet have to find a setting that works for both i think
<GridCube> Unit193, sadly i havent had time to do a live install yet, been wanting to do it all week
<GridCube> :(
<ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-053442pm.php
<Unit193> Alternate seems to be rebuilding now.
<knome> that's bad
<Unit193> astraljava: Have you seen any in 32?
<knome> :<
<astraljava> Unit193: I haven't used any linux systems in about a week now.
<carnau> here I am!
<Unit193> Hah, so I still have to blame it on "unit193"
<knome> 18:33 +mneptok: !coc
<knome> 18:33 +mneptok: !coc
<knome> what??
<knome> hrr
<ochosi> knome: well just sayin, theoretically the text could also be white and the shadow could be dark. probably would work better in most settings
 * knome stops tapping the laptop in the rhythm of "whiter sahde of pale"
<astraljava> Unit193: Please elaborate on the issues, though.
<knome> ochosi, why don't you try that? :)
<carnau> ochosi, yes, I'll do it. Which one is the current wallpaper?
<carnau> and yes, wallpapers change the color osd
<Unit193> astraljava: Alright, every time I have DNS issues, but following it back you see that resolv.conf points to dnsmasq, which in turn points to the router (as everything should.) I can dig @router-ip google.com and it works, but trying to browse with FF, installing with updates, or plain dig google.com  doesn't work.
<ochosi> knome: what did you call the wallpaper in precise?
<knome> ochosi, hum?
<ochosi> knome: carnau asked for a name, i have no clue tbh :)
<knome> filename?
<carnau> yes
<knome> mr_pouit, 
<knome> can't remember
<carnau> the one I used is the only wallpaper in the package
<ochosi> in xubuntu-artwork?
<carnau> in the backdrops folder, at least
<ochosi> file:///media/c78ed4d7-db55-4c48-9233-cee170cb6b97/usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-precise-right.png
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-precise-right.png
<ochosi> carnau: ^
<knome> that's it
<carnau> hmmm, let's see
<astraljava> Unit193: Is there a bug about this?
<Unit193> I'm just going on it being Vbox/me/weird
<astraljava> Yeah ok.
<Unit193> That's why I'm asking if anyone else has it.
<carnau> well, I think this folder comes with xubuntu, and I installed ubuntu
<astraljava> Well, I won't mention it in the release meeting right now, but let's keep it in mind. I'll try to do some testing in parallels over the weekend.
<ochosi> carnau: should be in the xubuntu-artwork package (i think)
<carnau> ok
<GridCube> ochosi, knome arent this the walls? http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/
<GridCube> i mean if he just have to test with them he could just grab them from the interwebs
<Unit193> astraljava: Oh, I was mearly asking if you hit it, but if the meeting is now I could pop in and read...
<astraljava> Unit193: I did mention it after all, but said I won't call it critical as of now. I'll do some testing on my own first, and wait for other reports to swim in.
<ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-054652pm.php
<ochosi> knome: this has to be tested with a bunch of different wallpapers though
<knome> mmh, for starters, what about a white bg?
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-054841pm.php
<ochosi> that's the most extreme case i guess
<ochosi> another option is to make the text less white
<ochosi> it's already #eee
<ochosi> i could drop that to #ddd
<knome> well, that's bad
<knome> :)
<ochosi> yeah, but who has a white bg :)
<astraljava> knome: Was there something strange in the release notes page?
<astraljava> A new format or something?
<ochosi> knome: again with #ddd: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-055054pm.php
<knome> astraljava, not really, just added the notes there too for skaet 
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<knome> ochosi, mmf, well, that's not very readable
<ochosi> knome: and i don't think you can really tweak this a lot further
<astraljava> knome: "Can all the feature and config/install information be ready in it by monday?"
<knome> ochosi, yeah...
<knome> ochosi, so it doesn't look like a very good idea to move to that direction then
<ochosi> knome: but as i said, white bg is a corner-case
<ochosi> knome: well, not 100% sure tbh
<knome> astraljava, what are you referring to with that?
<astraljava> knome: It was a question on the release meeting.
<knome> ochosi, i wouldn'y say it's a corne case - many people use wallpapers with a thing on them + light bg
<astraljava> I'm gonna go with "yes", and we'll just sort it our during the meeting.
<ochosi> knome: not light, _white_
<knome> astraljava, k, thanks
<knome> ochosi, :P
<knome> light, including white
<carnau> got it, it's in the xubuntu-wallpapers package
<GridCube> knome, http://wallpapers.wallpaperswindows8.com/images/2011/10/1280x1024/clouds-at-beach--677.jpg this kind of "light"?
<knome> GridCube, for example
<carnau> GridCube, ahÃ­ es donde trabajais? :p
<GridCube> ochosi, care to try there?
<GridCube> nope carnau :P i work in a city near not very nice places btw
<ochosi> yeah, it's not good enough: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04202012-055950pm.php
<GridCube> second
<ochosi> knome: ok, let's skip it
<ochosi> off for now ->
<knome> maybe the box around the text can be translucent or so
<knome> but it looks like getting rid of it completely is a no-go for now
<GridCube> i dont know if its just my computer being dumb, or todays desktop image doesnt recognizes the keyboard on vbox
<ochosi> knome: i thought about adding the code to gtkrc and just commenting it, so that it can be easily enabled by users (at their own risk)
<ochosi> knome: how would you feel about that?
<ochosi> oh, and yes, the box can be translucent (and it even is now), we can freely set any alpha-value we want.
<knome> ochosi, sure, that's fine
<ochosi> i can maybe also play with the alpha value a bit more to see whether we can improve the current (default) setting
<ochosi> if you have any ideas there, feel free to let me know
<ochosi> though the translucent box doesn't help with #fff or #000 backgrounds
<ochosi> pleia2: mind to re-share my latest post on g+ via xubuntu?
<pleia2> ochosi: it already is
<pleia2> https://plus.google.com/u/1/112064450121097287690/posts/9imHus7Xs1Y
<pleia2> on the 14th
<ochosi> pleia2: no, i mean this one: https://plus.google.com/u/0/106086509626546157534/posts/59JqH5ZpkHb
<pleia2> "This post could not be found."
<pleia2> is it public?
<Unit193> Why are the CDs always rebuilding? :P
<ochosi> pleia2: i only shared it with xubuntu
<ochosi> pleia2: i could set it public, but i thought it's maybe better if you just re-share it
<pleia2> you can't reshare limited things on g+
<ochosi> oh, right
<ochosi> then i'll make it public, one sec
<pleia2> (same on twitter, can't retweet from restricted accounts... well you could copy/paste..)
<ochosi> seems like i can't change the sharing policy after publishing a post
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, done
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> there you go :)
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> i thought about just responding to the longer conversation before, but in a comment you can't add pics it seems
<GridCube> D:
<ochosi> ?
<GridCube> i... cant install to hard
<ochosi> you mean... too hard? :)
<GridCube> no, to a real machine
<GridCube> i get ubi-partman exit with code 10
<GridCube> i cant launch firefox
<GridCube> theres something wrong to my unetbootin usb, i will redo it
<ochosi> did you checksum your iso?
<GridCube> no
<gridcube_> the one i have now is correct
<gridcube_> i will remake with today's iso
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> knome: ping
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> things seems to be working now
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> good to read
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-21
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> Linux gridcube-Intel-powered-classmate-PC 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
<GridCube> but i kind of forgot about deleting all the . starting folders on my /home and now everything looks wrong :D
<GridCube> oh... thunar bug stills there :(
<Unit193> Do you use gvfs?
<Unit193> (Remove file systems)
<Unit193> s/move/mote/
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> i dont 
<Unit193> sudo apt-get purge gvfs-backends
<GridCube> mmkay
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> has something changed with apt-get?
<GridCube> i cant autocomplete with tab...
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> i cant autocomplete anything if i start with sudo or gksu
<GridCube> this is new...
<Saurabh_123> will xubuntu 12.04 be supported for 3 or 5 years?
<baizon> Saurabh_123: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Releases
<Saurabh_123> does LTS release include only security updates?
<Saurabh_123> or software updates also?
<Saurabh_123> ?
<astraljava> Saurabh_123: No new feature releases, just important bugfixes. Some new features may be requested through backports, though.
<Saurabh_123> ok
<knome> anybody know the status of "adopt an iso" for xubuntu?
<astraljava> I know I should be gone already, but I'll fill in a definitive 'no'. But I'll find out, I need to do some testing-related tasks when I get back.
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> i just tweeted too
<astraljava> I'll ask balloons on -testing now, he had been contacted by a few Xubuntu testers.
<knome> k, great
<knome> why do i start to think about testing always when my neck/head hurts? :(
<knome> or does it go the other way aroung
<knome> *around
<astraljava> ...except he's not online, probably enjoying his weekend. Some people, only come in here when they get paid. *grin*
<knome> heh, yah
<astraljava> It's probably the other way around.
<astraljava> 'k, I'm gone for a bit now.
<knome> see you
<ochosi> knome: look here: http://imagebin.org/209051
<ochosi> knome: my conclusion is that we can't improve the current situation by much, but what definitely makes sense is adding a shadow to the font
<knome> ochosi, really? what about doing a 60% alpha version with no shadow?
<knome> btw, nice comparison!
<ochosi> why would you do no textshadow?
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> i think that comparison clarifies a lot
<knome> i think it might improve the text readability on the rightmost items
<ochosi> it also silenced the people who shouted "alpha0%" the loudest on g+
<knome> :P
<ochosi> not sure it would improve readability of the other ones though
<ochosi> but i could do another screenshot with it later
<knome> probably not, but isn't the lightest backgrounds where our problems are:)
<ochosi> we should check what the default alpha is
<ochosi> ok, this might be solvable after all, see all the hidden properties here: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/src/xfdesktop-icon-view.c#n475
<ochosi> i'll have to test/investigate more i guess...
<ochosi> haha, i can combine two shadows :)
<ochosi> what a hack :D
<ochosi> >http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04212012-030654pm.php
<knome> EWW!
<ochosi> since i can tweak the shadow-color freely this might actually work
<ochosi> this is already a lot better: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04212012-030759pm.php
<knome> my head still hurts
<knome> could you make the text bold?
<ochosi> i guess i could
<knome> that might work better than these weird experiments
<ochosi> this could work: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04212012-030918pm.php
<knome> yes, much better
<knome> then otoh...
<knome> how much does this improve the current situation
<ochosi> well we can then drop the label-alpha to 0
<knome> can we?
<knome> :P
<mr_pouit> (meh)
<ochosi> yes: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04212012-031043pm.php
<ochosi> anyway, i'm off for now
<knome> mmh, that's not bad
<ochosi> i'll play with this later
<knome> maybe enable it for selected items
<ochosi> enable what?
<ochosi> the label alpha?
<knome> the box
<ochosi> yes, that's how it currently works
<knome> k
<|Chilled|> Will 12.10 be based on Debian?
<|Chilled|> Hello?
<inabox_> Is artwork still being accepted? For 12.10?
<astraljava> knome: Have you been pushing out misleading news as April Fools' again?
<astraljava> Those were some seriously confusing questions right ther.
<astraljava> +e
 * astraljava awaits for the complaining to commence...
<GridCube> about?
<astraljava> You'll see it on the mailing lists.
<Unit193> astraljava: You little dirtbag!
<GridCube> im running prerealase now :D
<astraljava> I just figured I'd make the relationship a little more known, and thought here was a good spot for that. :)
<GridCube> astraljava, thats just testing protocols there
<astraljava> I know, I'll be flamed for it, but I think I can handle it. :)
<GridCube> don't see why
<astraljava> cross-posting is a huge no-no for some people.
<GridCube> oh
<Unit193> Yeah, but for me that's more with support questions on IRC. (And I hadn't seen the email yet, just figured that's my que)
<astraljava> Yep. And I believe in this case, it's not that bad. The projects are pretty intertwined in some cases.
<Unit193> No kidding, I've even thought about joining their channels, but...
<Unit193> Looks as if I'm already synced up, and good to go.
<Unit193> astraljava: Know what alt and desktop installs you want?
<astraljava> Unit193: No, not yet. I'll do a follow-up a little later, when some tests have been run already. For now, anything will do. Thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-04-22
<FirePowi> Hi
<knome> astraljava, hah. :)
<knome> astraljava, thanks for the mail to -users!
<astraljava> No worries, I'm just taking the first steps for the upcoming release. Trying to take a bigger role.
<knome> \o/
 * knome is cleaning up the house
<astraljava> You're a strange man.
<knome> how?
<astraljava> No questions. You just are.
<knome> aha
<ochosi> knome: i think i've more or less figured out the xfdesktop label setting
<ochosi> knome: the only oddity that remains is a selected label when the desktop doesn't have focus. i'm not sure whether it's important or not, but that's something that is already not very nice with our current/default solution
<knome> so how does it look then?
<ochosi> oh, wait, i just figured that out too
<knome> hah
<knome> astraljava, damn, everything in popparienkeli is -70% now..
<knome> astraljava, (didn't go there yesterday though, but it's open only until friday)
<ochosi> i'll provide a few screenshots later
<knome> great
<ochosi> the font will have to stay bold for desktop-items
<ochosi> it really improves readability
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i think it might generally be a good thing
<astraljava> knome: Soo... I don't see the problem. Help me spot it. :D
<astraljava> ochosi: You might be on to something there. *grin*
<knome> astraljava, well, i was just wondering if you had any interests to join me someday
<astraljava> Oh, certainly. Not tomorrow, though, unless I get out from work early enough. Jyp plays the 5th final tomorrow.
<knome> hehe
<astraljava> But that's 18:30, so could do before that, time permitting.
<knome> better to go with time
<astraljava> Right, might be better.
<knome> though i still don't know if i'll find anything to buy there :(
<astraljava> Oh wait, on Tuesday a friend brings some boxes for the move, so that's bad too.
<astraljava> Will that be too late then to go on Wednesday?
<knome> of course not
<astraljava> Okay, so could that work?
<knome> as said, i'm not looking for anything specific
<astraljava> Right.
<knome> wednesday sounds good
<astraljava> Excellent.
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-032735pm.php
<knome> ochosi, that's pretty good.
<astraljava> Shall we say around 5-ish?
<knome> ochosi, what about trying it against the cloud-wallpaper we saw earlier?
<knome> astraljava, yeah, worksforme :)
<knome> astraljava, at kamppi i suppose? :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah that looks sweet!
<ochosi> thanks :)
<astraljava> knome: Well either that, or at the store itself, up to you.
<astraljava> Or of course somewhere else if you have a better idea.
<knome> kamppi works well, because i'm going to have to come there first too
<astraljava> I doubt it, mine are usually superior.
<astraljava> *grin*
<knome> har
<knome> so, wed, 17 @ kamppi
<astraljava> Will mark it on the calendar.
<knome> that's actually super
<knome> if they have ordered the new kent album, they'll have it
<knome> if not, then i'll just buy it elsewhere
<knome> but getting -70% would be great
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033034pm.php
<knome> though i suppose they haven't been getting much new stuff in...
<ochosi> this time you can also see how a selection currently looks
<astraljava> Probably not, but we'll see.
<astraljava> You guys are magicians.
<ochosi> who?
<knome> ochosi, me, and me
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> as you can see the shadow changes when an item is selected
<knome> it's very subtle though
<knome> i'm actually even thinking that might be a bit bad.
<ochosi> it's because the whole implementation is a hack (combining the shadow-option of xfdesktop [set to top-left] and murrine [set to bottom-right])
<knome> i mean, isn't it a bit weird to have two different "light sources" ?
<ochosi> there is no "surrounding" shadow
<ochosi> the only thing i can do is make the other shadow appear (bottom-right)
<astraljava> knome: Shush... that's genious.
<ochosi> i have to combine two "diagonal" shadows, if you know what i mean
<knome> hah :)
<knome> ochosi, yup
<knome> ochosi, what if you tried the "normal" way?
<knome> (shadow at bottom-right)
<knome> that's somehow more natural looking
<ochosi> yeah, wait, actually give me a sec, i might still be able to figure it out
<knome> :)
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033659pm.php
<ochosi> done :)
<knome> humm
<ochosi> xfdesktop has an amazing amount of theming switches...
<knome> what if you tried just one shadow in the bottom-right?
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> i'm not a big fan, because then i have to switch shadows (murrine/xfdesktop) :/
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033913pm.php
<ochosi> i can't tweak that shadow-color btw
<ochosi> murrine doesn't distinguish between selected and normal
<knome> i think that's better than the other version
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> i think the shadow is too bright
<knome> yeah
<knome> i can live with the other too, but i think this works better than the other
<ochosi> and as i said, i can't change it
<ochosi> i'll think about it, but i think the rest of the settings is fine as is
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> yup, agreed on that
<astraljava> knome: re: Release Notes, why does it say to use `do-release-upgrade -d`, isn't that supposed to go out when it's no longer a dev release?
<knome> astraljava, that's something kate or smb else has put in there
<astraljava> Oh... so, it hasn't had a comb-through yet?
<knome> no, not completely
<astraljava> We should probably do it tonight. Got spare time?
<knome> sure.
<knome> now? :)
<astraljava> Why not, I'll just make a sandwich first.
<knome> ok
<knome> actually, it looks like upgrading is the only section that needs updating
<astraljava> Oh ok, so then it's going to be quick.
<knome> yeah. no need for sandwiches to survive
<astraljava> Heh. :)
<knome> so i suppose it's just s/-d// ?
<astraljava> Yeah. And is it really that is shows Ubuntu?
<knome> huh?
<astraljava> Have the window manager shortcuts really changed?
<knome> yes, they should have
<astraljava> (it shows as Ubuntu, but updates Xubuntu);
<knome> i'm not sure if that's true for upgrades
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i've no idea.
<knome> i think stgraber has been testing xubuntu upgrades too, should ask him, or anybody else who actually did that
<astraljava> I'll give it a go in virt.
<knome> i suppose that's works as well :)
<astraljava> "This makes Ubuntu more consistent the upstream implementation and with Debian." Shouldn't it be "...more consistent with the upstream implementation and Debian."?
<astraljava> But I can't find it in the edit mode.
 * astraljava scratches head
<knome> it's probably just included
<knome> look for <<Include
<astraljava> Yeah that was it, thanks.
<knome> np
<knome> i think some porcupine tree stuff could work.
<astraljava> I need something heavier to keep me going.
<astraljava> Pagan's Mind will do nicely.
<knome> i was referring to the PE-excursion :)
<astraljava> Hmm... well now you lost me completely.
<knome> wednesday?
<astraljava> Right.
<astraljava> Got it.
<knome> :)
<astraljava> Yeah I won't object if you insist on buying some PT stuff for me.
<knome> haha. :)
<knome> i don't have too much myself, and i don't think i like all of their stuff.
<knome> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/10/1639252/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems-rather-than-canonical
<knome> that's interesting news.
<astraljava> Yes indeed.
<astraljava> Isn't it "sticky window" instead of "stick window"?
<knome> i think the verb is "stick(ing) window"
<knome> not stickying
<knome> maybe "make the window sticky"
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> "...moving and resizing [a window|windows]"?
<knome> windows
<knome> if you're doing changes to the "new shortcuts" -section, they should be updated to the article on xubuntu.org too
<ochosi> knome: i can also "double" the shadow in selected items on the desktop: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-052051pm.php
<ochosi> it's very pronounced though, not exactly elegant...
<knome> huh
<knome> no
<ochosi> otoh it's visually very clear
<knome> sure
<knome> what if the "first" shadow was white?
<ochosi> i can only tweak the outer-shadow
<knome> aha
<astraljava> knome: Can we really update with using a Desktop CD nowadays? Where has this line come from? "Upstream"?
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> oh wait, seems to be the inner-shadow
<ochosi> i gotta go now, i'll be back for the rest of the day/night later
<knome> ok, see you
<ochosi> will do some nice fitpc-hacking :)
<astraljava> knome: The images link now points to the devel cycle-timed URL. Stable releases are found at http://releases.ubuntu.com
<astraljava> Should that be changed, or do we know if that pattern will work later on, as well?
<knome> i'd ask skaet 
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> So you just wanted to see whether I do my job or not?! ;D
<knome> no, i really just noticed that :P
<astraljava> Suuuure. :D
<knome> O:)
<astraljava> A rum-stained halo, for sure.
<knome> who knows...
<astraljava> Have I already asked; does it really require 5GB space these days?
<knome> i don't think you have
<knome> i don't know the answer either, though
<knome> i copied that from help.ubuntu.com
<astraljava> Ok, well, I'll see it pretty reliably once I upgrade from oneiric.
<knome> mmh
<astraljava> Hmmm... I thought aptitude got multiarch support just recently?
<astraljava> We have ARM images?!
<knome> yes, multiarch isn't that old
<knome> xubuntu probably doesn't have the arm images, that's probably included too
<astraljava> Yeah, bug #831768 seems to say it landed in March already.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<astraljava> hrm... not sure whether it is actually usable, still.
<knome> again, i think people in -release will know better
<astraljava> Already asked.
<knome> just noticed :)
<astraljava> knome: Ok, I think I can live with the Release Notes now. I didn't realize at first that the ARM reference came from Common Infrastructure, too.
<knome> astraljava, yep, thanks for the work
<astraljava> knome: I accidentally vanilla.
<astraljava> *sigh*
<knome> i chocolate
<astraljava> I invited a friend for the PE trip, but when he heard of the sales, he said he'd likely try to go tomorrow already. We'll see. :)
<knome> awwh :)
<ochosi> hm, what would you think, xubuntu or debian+xfce for my homeserver?
<knome> i'd say debian
<ochosi> mhm, why?
<ochosi> tradition?
<knome> not so much unnecessary stuff
<astraljava> CentOS
<ochosi> CentOS? what's that again, something debian-based?
<ochosi> ah, right, yeah, the unnecessary stuff is a good argument
<knome> astraljava, that isn't one of the options in "xubuntu" and "debian+xfce" :)
<ochosi> haha
<astraljava> Nah, Community ENTerprise OS. Based on RH.
<astraljava> knome: There's always the third, hidden option.
<astraljava> I always take that.
<ochosi> yeah, well it should play flash etc, it's a multimedia server
<ochosi> the thing is that i like debian packaging, that's what i'm used to
<astraljava> Then choose one of those new-fangled spin-offs of Ubuntu with lots of ZZ's in their names.
<knome> otoh, if you want newer packages... then maybe xubuntu
<ochosi> yeah, or debian unstable?
<knome> but even then, i'd maybe go with the minimal installation
<ochosi> i also don't really know which debian version i should go with
<ochosi> yeah, maybe ubuntu minimal is a good choice
<knome> i thought even unstable had older packages than ubuntu
<knome> but maybe i'm wrong
<ochosi> i think it does
<astraljava> This may have been the case until recently, when people really started to pay attention to the 'New packages into Debian first' mentality.
<knome> that being said, i also think the new stuff gets to ubuntu quicker than debian
<knome> astraljava, yeah, maybe. that makes sense tho
<astraljava> It may not have change completely, but it's going to be better. And in some cases sid still is ahead of Ubuntu dev.
<astraljava> changed*
<ochosi> the nice advantage of ubuntu are the ppas
<astraljava> Especially when Ubuntu is nearing towards the end of the dev cycle.
<ochosi> being able to easily manage additional software sources isn't as manifold and simple in debian (status of when i last tried it)
<knome> yeah, that's the bad side
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, that's right. jussi for instance made me realize there's this awesome service called sopcasting. Probably totally illegal, but it's in a PPA. :D
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> yes, totally illegal.
<astraljava> knome: Ok, please wipe this from the logs.
<knome> but really useful for following cycling
<ochosi> lol
<astraljava> *smirk*
<knome> damn, the eurosport player doesn't even work on linux
<knome> even if i wanted to give them my money
<ochosi> astraljava: so why CentOS?
<astraljava> ochosi: Not really, I just installed it the first time yesterday evening.
<knome> doesn't people say centos is really secure?
<astraljava> ochosi: Not for fun, mind you. Work-related.
<knome> though i think it has the same issue with not having new packages
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> right, so i guess i could take the server images of ubuntu then...
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, it's like Red Hat, but not company-backed.
<knome> ochosi, no!
<knome> i mean, uh
<ochosi> knome: why not?
<knome> i've heard the ubuntu server is not too good
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> a-ha
<knome> but otoh, what do i know, never run it myself
<astraljava> knome: Playing the spin doctor here?
<knome> but some weird defaults, i hear
<ochosi> ah, hmm
<knome> maybe it's okay for you
<ochosi> well i don't know what ubuntu-minimal has as defaults
<knome> i mean, it's probably all taste...
<ochosi> i mean server-relevant defaults
<knome> ochosi, probably the same stuff though ;)
<knome> but you can select which packages you're getting
<knome> i mean, better granularity
<ochosi> you mean with minimal?
<knome> on a server, i'd probably remove install-recommends
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> ok
<knome> you can always install the recommended packages manually if something seems not to work
<ochosi> we'll see, i'll dl both versions now (server,alternate) and then decide
<knome> not the minimal? :)
<ochosi> yeah, i hate the fact that recommends==depends in ubuntu
<knome> well, they are not!
<knome> they just appear the same
<ochosi> wait, i thought with alternate i can install minimal, no?
<knome> no
<knome> minimal is really minimal
<knome> !minimal
<ubottu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<ochosi> what about 12.04?
<knome> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
<knome> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
<knome> try those :P
<ochosi> woot, 30mb? :)
<knome> yeah.
<knome> minimal.
<knome> it doesn't install X if you don't tell it to.
<ochosi> mhm, sounds ideal
<ochosi> i think i want X though :)
<knome> or, if you don't tell it to install something that needs X
<knome> but remember to remove the install-recommends at the beginning ;)
<knome> otherwise you'll quickly end up installing half of gnome ;)
<ochosi> meh, somehow the mini.iso doesn't seem to work with usb-startup-disc creator
<knome> yes, because the startup creator only support desktop images anyway
<ochosi> argh
<knome> (not even alternative)
<ochosi> ok, so how do i create a startup-disc with that?
<knome> i'm not sure.
<ochosi> i don't have a cd drive in my server :)
<knome> i did that once, but i don't remember
<ochosi> ok, unetbootin seems to be the way to go
<knome> the weirdest thing i did was a bootable cd with grub that loaded usb drivers and thus allowed booting from usb on a laptop that didn't support booting from usb
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> that's a pretty spiffy trick
<knome> but that worked! instant win
<ochosi> i'll try to remember that (if i ever meet a pc again without usb-booting)
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> probably won't see many
<knome> what a lovely spring night.
<ochosi> hmright, as soon as the 
<ochosi> argh
<ochosi> unplugged the router .)
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> ... installer is running i'll try to fix the desktop icon stuff
<ochosi> at least one more thing that's dealt with
<knome> hah, yeah, even before the cycle has started
<knome> or are you trying to get that in precise? :P
<ochosi> yeha, it#s something for proposed
<knome> sounds better ;)
<astraljava> knome: Too true. Too bad I don't yet feel well enough for a stroll outside, I'd totally love to take one.
<knome> mmh :/
<jussi> I deny everything!
<knome> jussi, that's what the guilty people usually do, you're correct
<jussi>  lol
<Unit193> Yep, he's bad.
<astraljava> I actually rather like that one fella's nick on one of these channels, I forget which exactly.
<astraljava> IAmNotThatGuy
<astraljava> Sort of reminds of that jussi's outburst. :)
<knome> s/'s outburst//
<astraljava> Hahah.
 * astraljava ^5's knome
<knome> that's a lot of mass
<astraljava> Massive Attack?
<knome> nah.
 * knome is listening to explosions in the sky
 * astraljava wants to go see Iron Sky
 * knome not so much
<astraljava> You're no fun.
<astraljava> I was just about to ask whether you'd go with me on Wed.
<knome> i suppose it can be relatively entertaining, but maybe on a dvd someday.
<knome> hehe :)
<astraljava> bah
<knome> i'll think about it. we should have a few spare tickets left.
<knome> i'll let you know tomorrow, ok? :)
<knome> i was personally thinking some nhl11 at ours.
<knome> btw, where's your temporary residence?
<knome> at the cleaning room in the office? :P
<astraljava> It's two doors down from where I will move to on the eve of 1st of May. :)
<knome> ohh, you got an apartment? :)
<astraljava> Which reminds me, what are you doing on that afternoon?! *grin*
<knome> congrats.
<astraljava> It's 99% finalized.
<knome> nothing that i know of, yet
<astraljava> But should get done one of these days, probably tomorrow. TyÃ¶suhdeasunto, too.
<knome> great. :)
<astraljava> Alright, then you're helping me move. EOD.
<knome> ok. :)
<knome> i've already promised to do the same stuff on 2nd of may. :)
<knome> remind you, i don't have a driver's license
<astraljava> Well in all fairness, the more friends I'll have here, the sooner you're free to celebrate. If there's, say, four of us, I bet the heavy stuff are in in less than half an hour or so.
<knome> hehe, yeah
<astraljava> No, it's the eve of 1st of May.
<ochosi> humm, any filesystem advice?
<astraljava> 30.4.
<ochosi> btrfs? ext4?
<knome> astraljava, yeah, but i'm moving an another friend in 2nd of may :)
<astraljava> My iPhone is haunted.
<astraljava> Sure, sure.
<astraljava> ochosi: I have no idea, so I'd go with ext4.
<astraljava> There are probably better ones for server usage, though. JFS? *shrug*
<knome> i don't know much about that either
<knome> google.
<astraljava> Err... sorry, it was XFS that I was thinking of.
<astraljava> ...though, it seems that extX handles power losses better.
<astraljava> But, this is just a quick glimpse. Better not give you any FUD. Just RTFM.
<ochosi> hmyeah, i went with ext4
<ochosi> even though ext2 might be better when trying to reduce write-cycles
<astraljava> ochosi: I just read that XFS is better for huge files, which that being a media server, might host DVD or even blu-ray images at some point, no?
<ochosi> humwell, the media-files are all on external harddrives
<astraljava> Yea ok.
<ochosi> for internal use (system, torrent-cache) i have a 60gb ssd
<knome> yeah, i don't think ochosi is rich enough to buy a BIG ssd ;)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well, yeah, "BIG" :)
<knome> well, to host bluray discs...
<astraljava> Yeah well, I didn't think you'd need SSD for serving those, the data stream isn't _that_ huge. :D
<knome> no, but i knew ochosi had bought an SSD
<astraljava> Ahh... ok.
<ochosi> i have 2TB of external hdds
<ochosi> which will partly raid (via rsync) and use the rest as media storage
<knome> i don't have that much HDD space altogether :)
<knome> though, i don't need that much either...
<ochosi> mhm, i've never had so much before
<knome> astraljava, viekkain elÃ¤in kettu on ja sen rÃ¶yhkeys on uskomaton - luulin koiraani ketuksi ja sen ammuin, oijoijoi... niin ovela vain kettu olla voi
<ochosi> finnish is a weird language :)
<knome> astraljava, i know you like animals, so i had to paste you those nice song lyrics
<astraljava> knome: Lay off the rum for today, will ya?
<knome> astraljava, no, that's an actual recorded song
<astraljava> Hehehe. Yeah but winning my heart over shooting dogs is a task too hard even for you. :D
<knome> haha
<knome> but it was the fox!
<knome> or, at least, its fault...
<astraljava> Yes. It really wasn't the fox.
<astraljava> Which makes me a sad panda, now.
 * astraljava made an awesome animal bridge there, no?
<knome> no
<knome> :D
<ochosi> knome: ok, i can control the inner-shadow on xfdesktop's selected items
<knome> ochosi, quick translation: fox is the craftiest animal and its impudence is unbelievable - i thought my dog was a fox and i shot it, ohnono... only a fox can be so sly
<ochosi> i think yellow might be the way to go: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-083737pm.php
<ochosi> heh
<knome> uhoh! NO!
<knome> that's horrible
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> so i think i probably won't set a second shadow for the selected shadow
<astraljava> knome: I'm just using this channel as a pad, but oneiric install eats 3.0GB according to du.
<knome> k :)
<astraljava> knome: And update-manager -d won't even mention of a devel release, so can't check that part of the Notes.
<knome> huh?
<knome> how can that be
<astraljava> No idea.
<knome> weird.
<knome> damn. i really want to go out, so maybe i should.
<ochosi> ok, managed to setup my homeserver as wlan router now
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm off for today, see you later
<ochosi> see ya
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-15
<Unit193> Wow, we're pulling in a bit of gnome and a touch of unity so it would seem.
<smartboyhw> Hi Xubuntu devs:)
<smartboyhw> A Ubuntu Studio user reported a Bug 1169122
<ubottu> bug 1169122 in Ubuntu Studio "Opening Software Sources shows notification of the volume. Ubuntu Studio 13.04 64 bit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169122
<smartboyhw> However zequence and I thought that it cannot be a Ubuntu Studio bug on it's own.
<smartboyhw> <zequence> Not really a Ubuntu Studio bug. I think the behaviour of the volume pop up could be improved, but I don't know where this should be done
<smartboyhw> <zequence> Maybe XFCE?
<smartboyhw> So can any people direct the bug to it's right place?:) Big thanks!
<knome> please get it confirmed first
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
<knome> and post instructions how to reproduce
 * smartboyhw can't actually reproduce this bug hmm...
<zequence> I don't think that specific case is the whole scope of the problem. The volume notification will show in cases when you don't really require it to
<knome> i read the comment, that's why i think it is stupid to forward it to developers at this point
<knome> well, then it's probably not an xfce problem either, becuase why would xfce notice of volumes randomly?
<smartboyhw> zequence, try to reproduce the bug please.
<knome> zequence, have you experiences unexpected notifications too?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm not going to, but I will fire up a virtual install now just to see if I can find another case
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK.
<smartboyhw> zequence, I can't reproduce it (and never see strange volume notifications) 
<smartboyhw> I would rather mark the bug as invalid.
<zequence> I think the volume notification should only show, if you adjust the volume with a non-gui controller
<smartboyhw> zequence, and why would one not?
<zequence> As is now, it at least pops up when you adjust using the volume applet
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep.
<knome> zequence, that bug should be reported against the volume applet then
<zequence> knome: I'm not so interested in that particular bug myself. Just looking quickly if I can find some other usecase
<zequence> Anyone know what package or source is responsible for forwarding the volume notifications?
<knome> me neither, i think it's a really low priority one. if the bug with software sources was reproducible, it might be even medium, but still far away from the top of the list
<smartboyhw> zequence, not me.
<zequence> I'm checking out xfce4-notifyd
<smartboyhw> knome, zequence should I mark it as "Invalid" or "Opinion" or what?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Just leave it be
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: Until someone can either confirm it, or prove it is not a bug, it's hard to do anything
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK.
<zequence> xfce4-volumed seems more correct
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> files src/xvd_notify.*
<zequence> I'm guessing that's where you'd do the hacking if you want to change the behaviour for the volume notifications
<ochosi> zequence: just a pointer: xfce4-notifyd is a daemon, so it only listens to signals. when programmes decide to send a notification through the daemon is up to them, so imho it should be fixed in the respective package, not the daemon (simply surpressing certain signals might lead to unwanted behavior in other places)
<zequence> ochosi: Yeah, I think I found the source in xfce4-volumed
<zequence> But I doubt I will start poking in it, all though it probably would be good for c noobs like me
<lderan> zequence, looking at code is always a good thing to do when you're starting out in that language.
<skellat> knome: I imagine I am going to have some folks displeased with me for this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1169238
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1169238 in Unity "[UIFe] BFB icon swirl should run clockwise not anti-clockwise" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit, are either of you around?  :)
<bluesabre> knome, as a bugfix release, do I need to file a FFe for catfish 0.6.1 to be updated to 0.6.3?
<Unit193> bluesabre: As for Bug 1098323, that wasn't the initial problem, at least for me.
<ubottu> bug 1098323 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole failes to play DVD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098323
<bluesabre> yeah, I think his problem is slightly unrelated
<Unit193> Don't know, it seems he can use VLC so shouldn't be libdvdcss, and same error message I had.  My dvd drive is /dev/dvd2, and it'd refuse to open it even if you directed it. :P
<bluesabre> I need to fix that at some point
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> working on a new category chooser in menulibre... thoughts?  http://imagebin.org/254177
<Unit193> I'm not sure which one is new, but the one on the left is nice, just may not have all needed options..  Right is nice if for some reason you need to add one, such as X-Xfce.
<bluesabre> The one on the right is new.  I'm trying to accomodate for the multitude of possible sub-categories
<bluesabre> The + button will show a dropdown menu with all the known categories, and custom categories will be remembered in the menulibre settings
<Unit193> Yeah, which makes sense.  I like how you can see more with the first, but you don't have all the needed options so something else is needed.
<bluesabre> I'll probably add a second column that shows a nicer name, Utility -> Accessories, etc
<skellat> As seen over at #ubuntu-release: (06:56:04 PM) queuebot: (notice) Unapproved: shimmer-themes (raring-proposed/universe) [1.5.4-0ubuntu1 => 1.5.4-0ubuntu2] (ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<Unit193> Might want to wait for it to get accepted or rejected.
<skellat> Unit193: (07:05:22 PM) queuebot: (notice) Unapproved: accepted shimmer-themes [source] (raring-proposed) [1.5.4-0ubuntu2]
<Unit193> That one.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-16
<pleia2> really disappointed at Noskcaj's dismissive attitude toward our social media on list
<Unit193> He doesn't quite get that it is a operating system, not his best friend.
<Unit193> I think he's looking at the quantity difference between Lubuntu and Xubuntu?
<micahg> bluesabre: if it's bug fix, no, we'e still a few days before final freeze
<bluesabre> hey micahg :)
<bluesabre> yeah, fixes a few bugs that were reported recently, any way you might be able to upload it?
<micahg> yeah, can try to tonight, I've been extremely busy
<micahg> will look after dinner
 * skellat fires up Thunderbird to see what pleia2 and Unit193 are talking about with social media
<skellat> Unit193 pleia2 I guess the big question may be what our desired end goal is for the projects various presences on social media platforms.  If we've not communicated that then it may seem like we haven't done anything if we are in fact following a plan.
<bluesabre> thanks micahg
<micahg> hrmf, watch file wasn't updated...
 * micahg fortunately still had a local copy of the new file
<micahg> bluesabre: do you have the # of the bugs fixed if filed?
<bluesabre> micahg, 3 bugs listed here: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/0.6/0.6.3
<knome> skellat, yeah, that's great.
<knome> lightdm looks good now
<lderan> knome, is this is what you're after? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5712782/ shouldn't be much of a do, it doesn't add votes to the meeting item list but shall find where it does for the actions and infos
<knome> lderan, yep
<knome> and that can be ''VOTE:'' when you get there
<lderan> okay 
<ochosi> meh, i really have a nasty bug in xfwm4's deco here, but it seems not unlikely that it's graphics-driver related (in Raring)
<knome> aha
<knome> shot?
<ochosi> as soon as i get it again, i'll take a shot
<ochosi> (it's gone as soon as i move the window)
<knome> aha ok
<ochosi> kinda randomely appears
<knome> which gpu/driver?
<ochosi> intel
<ochosi> so kinda known that it's glitchy
<knome> :)
<pjotr> Hello, it seems that Leafpad had been replaced by Mousepad, in Xubuntu Raring
<pjotr> Unfortunately for me, because now I have to adapt a lot of how-to's
<pjotr> And there's a bug in Mousepad: it's not translated nor translatable on Launchpad
<baizon> pjotr: you can install mousepad / leafpad
<pjotr> I know, but I maintain an extensive online manual for Xubuntu.... :-(
<pjotr> anyway: how can Mousepad become translatable?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-17
<bluesabre> saw the catfish update.  Thanks micahg!
 * micahg will have to look at the image failures tonight if no one gets to them first
<kgb> just a question, since they have no PPA(s), perhaps it would be possible to include ScummVM version 1.5.0 in the final release of Xubuntu 13.04?..
<kgb> .. is there a forum, or a place to make such a request?
<kgb> *pls
<GridCube> kgb, there is a time to ask for new additions, :P that time is not two or so weeks before release
<kgb> GridCube: gotcha, tnx. :\
<kgb> dammit :-D
<ochosi> kgb: just wondering, why would you want scummvm in xubuntu by default? why would it be useful to the general public or our diverse userbase (not all of them play old adventure games)? why not set up a ppa instead?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-18
<Noskcaj> xubuntu isn't on the iso tracker, any idea why?
<Noskcaj> nevermind, i refreshed and it was there
<Noskcaj> knome, what ali linx has said in the emails isn't boasting, he really is a huge part of why lubuntu is so popular.
<knome> Noskcaj, i'm not saying any of that.
<Noskcaj> he had though that's why he was being ignored for the most part
<knome> he should have communicated that to the team then
<knome> there are a few reasons why he didn't get too many responses
<Noskcaj> i'm not entirely sure what his intention is, but having him on the team would be a huge help
<knome> one of them is that people are really busy right now
<Noskcaj> knome, makes sense
<pleia2> I keep asking him directly what his exact plans are for working with us, he just keeps saying "work together"
<knome> the other is that he clearly doesn't know what's going on
<pleia2> which isn't very helpful :(
<knome> i don't know how much we really need people working on the social media right now.
<knome> there are other areas that would need much more help
<knome> o hai pleia2!
<pleia2> Noskcaj: btw, our social media stuff is linked at the bottom of xubuntu.org
<Noskcaj> i agree with both of you, i'll try and get him on irc some time
<pleia2> in case you were wondering where to find the "official" ones, I don't know anything about that xubuntu one on facebook is you found
<knome> pleia2, good to see you're fine after all the booms around there.
<Noskcaj> pleia2, thanks
<pleia2> knome: I am oblivious to the whole world at this conference :)
<knome> mhm
<pleia2> one of my cousins was in the marathon though, he's fine
<knome> pleia2, good to hear that
<pleia2> Noskcaj: I really am happy to work with him (and anyone) and we've talked several times, he's quite enthusiastic, but it's hard for me to work with someone who won't propose actual action items :)
<knome> couldn't agree more.
<pleia2> tons of people come along all the time with ideas about "what xubuntu should do"
<Noskcaj> pleia2, he hass been fairly vague
<knome> yep. now and then i feel like the -devel list has become the wishlist list.
<pleia2> I don't mind so much, when people get angry that things aren't done and they don't help is when it gets frustrating
<pleia2> I think most people don't realize how small of a team we are :)
<lderan> aye I would agree with that
<knome> :)
<knome> hmm. what's the scope of team reports really? lubuntu and kubutnu are not even mentioned in the team reports
<knome> edubuntu isn't either
<knome> only xubuntu and ubuntu studio are
<Unit193> I think it's more along the lines of who submits them?
<lderan> knome, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5720091/ how does the voting look now?
<knome> Unit193, sure, but xubuntu or US hasn't submitted anything.
<knome> lderan, looks good :)
<Unit193> Not for a while.
<knome> Unit193, they are still listed though. k/l/edu aren't.
<lderan> so just the seconds to remove then thats it i think
<knome> mhm
<knome> and get it upstream! :)
<pleia2> knome: every project should do them in the whole ubuntu! but the ones that show up on that report are ones someone added to the template at some point
<knome> pleia2, yes mum.
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/MonthTemplate is the template
<knome> ubuntu development teams looks sad :)
<lderan> knome, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5720199/ seconds have now been banished. Shall look into upstreaming it tomorrow as I have no idea how to do that. Also need to make sure I haven't left any logging directory stuff in there.
<knome> mhm :)
<knome> thanks
<knome> you should ping AlanBell on that.
<lderan> will do :)
<lderan> but first sleep
<knome> nighty!
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-19
<GridCube> hi techno__ you can read this, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved , and this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<GridCube> what we do need desesperatly right now its help in betatesting the isos
<GridCube> thats the greatest contribution you can do as a starter
<GridCube> techno__, here you will find all the information you need to do iso tests http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42479/testcases and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42480/testcases
<techno__> thank you very much Grid
<GridCube> techno__, if you have any questions dont hessitate to ask, if you remain here you will learn the way help
<techno__> OK, great, thanks again
<knome> there's a good article on testing at http://xubuntu.org/news/want-to-help-out-xubuntu-test-raring/
<Noskcaj> as phill has posted on FB and the mailing list, all daily's from now are essentially RCs, get testing
#xubuntu-devel 2013-04-20
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop is very outdated. do we still use that project?
<skellat> Noskcaj: Yep, bugs can still be filed against it in general.  The desktop metapackage is linked to it too, if memory serves.
<skellat> !info xubuntu-meta
<ubottu> Package xubuntu-meta does not exist in quantal
<skellat> !info xubuntu-desktop
<ubottu> xubuntu-desktop (source: xubuntu-meta): Xubuntu desktop system. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.162 (quantal), package size 3 kB, installed size 43 kB
<Noskcaj> skellat, ok. my main worry was it still say natty is the development branch
<skellat> Well, we can add that to the early milestones of the S-cycle for clean up perhaps
<Noskcaj> ok, sounds good
<skellat> Now is the time to start building the list of things to do, actually
<skellat> We've got the project leader election on May 1st, Debian Wheezy drops around May 4th or 5th, and the vUDS-1305 runs May 14th through 16th
<Noskcaj> you've also got to get a version of xfwm that fixes bug 1110158
<ubottu> bug 1110158 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Tiling a window + resizeing sends it out of screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1110158
<skellat> Is there anything upstream on that?
<Noskcaj> skellat, i don't think so.
<Noskcaj> i'll try and check
<Unit193> Then nothing to be done right now.
<skellat> Wait, I see that the bug is linked to upstream
<skellat> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8766
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8766 in General "Clicking "unmaximize" on a tiled window doesn't restore its original position." [Normal,New]
<skellat> And the upstream hasn't been fiddled with yet though comments have been collected
<Noskcaj> the upstream hasn't even been confirmed, i'll try and do that now
<skellat> And eventually we may or may not need to log one or more blueprints for vUDS-1305 here: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-1305/+specs
<Noskcaj> one other thing for after 13.04, http://xubuntu.org/upgrading/ needs updating
<pleia2> yep, every tme :)
<pleia2> it usually takes a couple days for all the mirrors to be fully populated, so it takes some time
<Noskcaj> pleia2, did i miss something?
<pleia2> hm?
<Noskcaj> was what you posted above meant to be a response to me? if so, could you actually open the link?
<pleia2> Noskcaj10: ah, I thought you meant the getxubuntu one
<pleia2> Noskcaj10: can you create a bug for it? even better if you can take screenshots :)
<pleia2> file here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+filebug
<pleia2> much easier for us to keep track of it in the bug tracker rather than just comments here in -devel
<pleia2> (particularly since I'm going out of town for a few weeks starting next week, but it's generally true just like with other project bugs)
<Noskcaj10> pleia2, fileing now
<Noskcaj10> bug 1170890 bug 1170891
<ubottu> bug 1170890 in Xubuntu Website "http://xubuntu.org/upgrading/ is four releases old" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170890
<ubottu> bug 1170891 in Xubuntu Website "http://xubuntu.org/ should have a page for changing an install from another *buntu flavour to Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170891
<Unit193> There already is something for 1170891, no point in duplication and not sure if the idea is "supported."
<Unit193> !purexubuntu
<ubottu> If you want to remove all !KDE and !Gnome packages and have a default !Xubuntu system follow the instructions here Â« http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce Â»
<Noskcaj10> Unit193, that is the link mentioned by the website
<Noskcaj10> is anyone with website admin online? i;m pretty sure LTS is 5 years support. http://xubuntu.org/tour/ says it's three
<Unit193> Xubuntu only is 3, and what?
<Noskcaj10> Unit193, oops, i thought everything was 5, never mind
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-14
<amigamagic> ok I filed the bug on bugzilla: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10813
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10813 in General "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Minor,New]
<RFleming> Greetings.
<RFleming> I'm trying  to find out if this is a bug or not but...
<RFleming> When I have gmusicbrowser playing music, or streaming from a site, most times when the screen locks the music stops playing until I unlock the machine, but sometimes it continues
<RFleming> I expect music to continue to play while the machine is locked, not to stop.
<RFleming> it isn't just gmusicbrowser either, it's through a flash player in a browser through internet radio, and other sources as well.
<pleia2> I think it continuing is a bug
<amigamagic> If you are playing the music, you don't want to stop it if the screen goes in saving mode so, at least from an user perspective, it's a bug.
<RFleming> really?  One would think that if a computer is locked, all processes would continue as normal, you're just preventing someone from accessing the computer.
<amigamagic> yes. Maybe screen lock halts all the interactive processes the user started in its graphical session.
<RFleming> pleia2, BTW, I was at my library today and gave them your email address for an 'We use Xubuntu for' segment.  Now for them to contact you.
<pleia2> RFleming: great, thank you :)
<amigamagic> if someone is interested I filed a bug report on launchpad too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Undecided,New]
<RFleming> amigamagic, Interactive processes should not be halted... period.  There are instances where that is LEAST desirable.
<RFleming> at my office, with Windows machines, it is quite common for someone to be post processing a very large dataset on a computer and locking the machine to prevent interference.
<amigamagic> RFleming, I agree with you if you had not realized... :)
<RFleming> I know, was just further bolstering my argument through an ally :)
<RFleming> pleia2, I'd say that 66% of the time it blocks, the other 33% it works as 'expected'
<pleia2> RFleming: goofy thing
<RFleming> pleia2, I have kids, so I have a quick lock time... I usually have several remote sessions into work running, and do NOT want them tampering
<RFleming> :)
<pleia2> whatever the expected behavior, it should be consistant, so there is a bug somewhere :)
<RFleming> my daughter calls herself, my mini-manager-assistant.
<pleia2> hehe
<RFleming> pleia2, I've looked in launchpad, but I haven't mastered it like I have google searches, so I can't find it if it exists.
<RFleming> I'm assuming it exists, as my current bug finding score is 0 on tens of bugs I've found :)
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/18415
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 18415 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Allow media controls to function when the screen is locked." [Wishlist,Triaged]
<pleia2> ah, no
<pleia2> that's media *controls*
<Logan_> knome: uploaded
<Unit193> Where do the Unruly Unicorn proposals go? :P
<Logan_> ...lawl
<Logan_> Unit193: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
<Unit193> Logan_: Nonono, we all know that's ignored except for laughs. :P
<Unit193> (Though I do like the Uakari one better.)
<jhenke> morning folks
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<elfy> woot - volman fix released
<jhenke> quite some unicormn lovers for 14.10
<zequence> No bluetooth changes yet?
<zequence> Do you get dual instances of some things in the indicator panel?
<zequence> In the latest Ubuntu Studio I'm seeing power and calendar twice, though they are not the same power and the same calendar (the double is another kind of indicator)
<brainwash> zequence: unneeded indicators are still being installed
<brainwash> the dependency issue is not resolved yet
<zequence> brainwash: Ok
<brainwash> in xubuntu we hide the xfce4-power-manager tray icon by default
<knome> Logan_, thank you very much!
<brainwash> so only indicator-power should be visible on mobile devices
<olbi> there is a bug in top right corner, after the clock there is blank place, but when I click there than there is keyboard and language menu :P
<brainwash> Logan_: thanks :)
<zequence> Right, I forgot to mention what olbi just said
<amigamagic> knome, sorry if I bother you, did you see my bug report on launchpad to check if it's all right or I've done something wrong there? https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfdesktop/+bug/1307251
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Low,Confirmed]
<brainwash> olbi: indicator-keyboard will be not part of the default installation (final release)
<olbi> oh, ok :D
<olbi> the wallpapaer bug is still exist :/
<brainwash> you can use this indicator, but you need to configure it via gnome-control-center
<zequence> brainwash: So, you're dropping it from seeds?
<brainwash> zequence: we plan to
<knome> olbi, what wallpaper bug?
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1297170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1297170 in One Hundred Papercuts "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [Low,Confirmed]
<knome> cyphermox, good day
<olbi> I have only xfce wallpaper and nothing more :/
<knome> olbi, aha..
<knome> amigamagic, looks okay
<brainwash> olbi: new user account?
<olbi> after instalation
<olbi> and upgrade the whole system
<brainwash> please create a new user account and log in to verify it
<olbi> ok
<amigamagic> knome, ok, thanks... I spent much time to make reproducible tests and check the changes in the ~/.config/xfce/desktop folder, so I'm happy if I could have been of help.
<amigamagic> :)
<olbi> yes, after creating another account all is ok
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> so it should be fine
<olbi> but after first installation I need to create another account? :P
<brainwash> when did you install xubuntu?
<brainwash> it should be fixed since 2014-04-09 (daily image)
<olbi> yes, it was this image :)
<olbi> maybe I should dl new one?
<brainwash> if you don't mind testing it
<olbi> hmm, strange, when I add new user, it wasn't be in sudoers :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, poke in the eye
<amigamagic> should a translation bug of a task manager column for the italian language be only on bugzilla or on launchpad too?
<knome> brainwash, i can't confirm bug 1297170 on today's ISO
<ubottu> bug 1297170 in One Hundred Papercuts "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper/install uses same" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170
<knome> i'll install now, but i'm pretty sure it's not broken
<brainwash> olbi: new users are create with the standard template, you need change it manually to "administrator"
<brainwash> knome: just to make sure :)
<knome> brainwash, yep.
<knome> yep, no xfce wallpaper here
<amigamagic> I should file this bug on launchpad too: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10817 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10817 in General "bad italian translation for UID column in task manager" [Minor,New]
<olbi> hmm, you cant update the translation files for installer before first general update of LTS?
<amigamagic> honestly, I don't know
<olbi> and some icons in whisker menu which are depend on exo too :]
<olbi> In my opinion, You should brake some rules about freezing feature like translation files :D
<amigamagic> I don't think the ubuntu team is so rigid on these things. They are already correcting many things before the official release. But I don't know if the ubuntu team could make changes at xfce translation files before the official xfce team.
<olbi> if they want spread around the world, not only english countries, they need to :) some things in dash doesn't work good in my language :P
<knome> olbi, translations in xfce trunk/transifex are a completely different thing than translations in the ubuntu packages
<knome> olbi, there is no simple way to just "update translations", it would need manual work, and it would mean the packages would become more separated from the debian packages
<knome> olbi, so as long as there are no new releases well before the feature freeze, it's unlikely that the translations land into the release fully/at all
<amigamagic> knome, do you think I should file that language bug report on launchpad too, or it's ok to have it only on bugzilla.xfce.org?
<knome> amigamagic, what language bug report?
<knome> right, that
<knome> umh, no, just fix it in transifex once you are approved to the translation team
<amigamagic> ok, thanks! :)
<knome> it'll propagate to ubuntu some point
<knome> +at
<olbi> knome: so the best way to update translation in Xubuntu is waiting for new release of package in debian?
<knome> olbi, new xfce upstream release
<knome> olbi, that'll then make its way to debian, and then ubuntu
<olbi> ok, so for now I need to w8 with promoting Xubuntu in my country :(
<knome> olbi, or if debian doesn't package it, we can package it specifically for xubuntu, but we're not going to do that just for translations
<knome> olbi, why isn't there a polish translation of the xubuntu docs?
<knome> olbi, that would help a lot, even if the apps were in english.
<olbi> it is still going :] I have very little time for it
<olbi> I'm working in 2 jobs now, one in UK, second in Poland
<olbi> second is telework :P
<olbi> I will try finish the docs in one month
<knome> olbi, sure, i understand, but try to see it this way: the xubuntu doc team has created a completely new, updated version of the docs, and have told all languages with at least 80% translated strings will be shipped with the release; by doing this, the xubuntu team has already enabled a direct way to help make xubuntu more usable for people who don't understand english
<olbi> knome, the problem here is that, that not all ppl from polish translation team are interested in translating xubuntu or docs for it, I'm doing this alone for now, sometime help from 2 - 3 ppl
<knome> i understand.
<olbi> sometimes I need to w8 for approved translation in launchpad 1 - 2 weeks because person responsible for this things doesn't have time
<olbi> ok, I have to go to work now, will be about 23 UTC
<knome> why aren't you in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-pl the?
<knome> *then
<olbi> I'm ass member but doesn't have rights to approve
<knome> no, you're not a member of that team...
<olbi> I was trying to be added there but still they need to check me, after 2 years .... :P
<knome> olbi, don't see you as pending either
<knome> zequence, ping
<knome> slickymasterWork, hey, you around?
<knome> zequence, if you happen to come around while i'm off, can you confirm on bug 1307485 that it is ok
<ubottu> bug 1307485 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Drop gnome-bluetooth to suggests (regression)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307485
<knome> slickymaster, stop pinging out when i ping you!
<slickymasterWork> I am now, knome 
<knome> slickymaster, so, the tour page... ;)
<slickymasterWork> if you're available, it's ok with me
<slickymasterWork> just let me open the page
<knome> i'm semi-around
<knome> i've been neglecting my real work for some time now with xubuntu stuff, so i need to balane
<knome> *balance
<slickymasterWork> I know, I also at work, but I think I'll magae to juggle more than one ball
<slickymasterWork> I believe that your intention it's to rebuild from the ground up?
<slickymasterWork> do you already have any specific ideas?
<knome> it's probably best to rethink the whole thing
<knome> no, i don't have any specific ideas
<knome> but we should look what our strategy document says
<knome> and then build upon on things that actually work towards our goal/vision
<slickymasterWork> when you say rethink, you're just referring to the text content, right? Or is there something else involved?
<knome> we can use the colored highlight blocks
<knome> and more lively screenshots
<knome> (old ones are dropped because they were ugly)
<slickymasterWork> that reminds me that I have to take new trusty screenshots to solve the 'Sex' presence in the ones we now have
<knome> lol
<knome> not *quite* yet
<knome> once the last bug fix is in, the desktop should look as it would in the final ISO
<slickymasterWork> I think we should start with the text content, and once that's done, we would move to the design question
<knome> yes
<knome> should we start a pad
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Tour
<slickymasterWork> probably, no need to flood the channel 
<slickymasterWork> on it
<elfy> knome: if there's anything I can do to assist - let me know
<elfy> home and staying here now
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Tour
<knome> if you wish to have a poke
<slickymasterWork> come on in elfy 
<knome> other than that, most changes should be landed or landing
<elfy> yep
<knome> release notes/announcement is well prepared
<knome> flyer is... pending on pleia2 :P
<elfy> ok - not looked at blog draft since the other day
<knome> poked at it today
<elfy> is the wiki one started
<knome> updating the bug lists
<elfy> ok
<knome> both blog and wiki are at http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Final
<elfy> ok
<knome> scroll down for notes (to be in the wiki)
<elfy> yep - understood
<CritAnime> hi
<brainwash> knome: ah c'mon... why did you have to bump a dozen reports? :)
<starrats> tried to take a peek at the /xubuntu1404tour and got this after I logged in:  http://pad.ubuntu.com/openid/+login
<elfy> starrats: that's because we're working on a pad for these things - you need to be in the etherpad group on Launchpad
<starrats> ah okay, understand
<brainwash> elfy: looks like we won't resolve the black problem in time :/
<elfy> brainwash: ok - well as long as we know it can go in wherever and people that 'support' should pick it up
<cyphermox> knome: just uploaded n-m-applet.
 * knome bows
<pleia2> I'll try to take a look at the flyer this week
<pleia2> airplanes today
<elfy> you're looking at planes?
<elfy> #awesomejob
<pleia2> I love airplanes!
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> but I'm actually riding in a couple, in addition to enjoying their company
 * jhenke likes airplanes too
<jhenke> yeha! just got the mail that the bluetooth bug should be fixed :)
<elfy> except for you :p
<jhenke> elfy: ?
<elfy> just joking :)
<jhenke> okay
<jhenke> does somebody need to ask for a respin now?
<cyphermox> there should be one shortly anyway, no?
<elfy> apparently
<elfy> there are no builds available atm 
<zequence> knome: Ok, so you're going through with it now?
<zequence> knome: Ok, saw the bug report
<knome> zequence, yep, it's done
<knome> zequence, if you want something else bluetooth than bluez on your seed, you should change that
<zequence> knome: is blueman enough?
<knome> that's what we use, should be
<zequence> knome: Ok. I just added it.
<knome> we don't ship bluez either
<knome> but i'm not totally familiar with all the bluetooth stuff
<zequence> It's more of a Apple thing anyway, right ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> well i use it now and then, maybe once in a year or two...
<cyphermox> ah, no bluez but using straight blueman?
<cyphermox> blueman depends on bluez
<knome> cyphermox, dunno, it works like that for us, i guess...
<knome> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.trusty/desktop
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> it's in the desktop-common seed
<cyphermox> anyway, it's irrelevant
<cyphermox> bluez does the lower-level magic for handling the devices, like setting up the transport protocols for sound, or encrypting keyboard keys
<elfy> pleia2 knome - can someone ping the social media with the final build test please
<pleia2> on it!
<elfy> I knew you would be :)
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds
<elfy> it's not there yet - but it's starting to fill up
<knome> seriously? I/O error?
<knome> :P
 * elfy has sent the penultimate mail to the list
<elfy> knome: yep - it's seriously filling up :p
<elfy> next cycle we could ask for the builds to be done in z - a order :p
<knome> think i'll just burn a dvd and don't hope the SD card to work
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> haha, z-a order
<knome> heyyyy... i even have two blank ones
<knome> what about Ã¶buntu, the new xubuntu spinoff by knome?
 * knome hides
<zequence> And, don't forget zubuntu
<pleia2> I can't use it because I don't have that key on my keyboard
<zequence> pleia2: Use gimp to draw two dots on all the o's you send
<knome> pleia2, yeah but it has a pink wallpaper and pink highlight colors on the greybird theme
<pleia2> knome: oooh
<pleia2> zequence: haha
<knome> pleia2, and lots of kitten applications
<pleia2> kittens++
<knome> ...whatever that might mean
<jhenke> pleia2 a common subsitute for Ã¶ is oe
<knome> jhenke, but the flavor name will be Ã¶buntu!
<knome> not oebuntu
<pleia2> oebuntu
<jhenke> not a problem for me knome, Ã¶buntu
<jhenke> german keyboard layout for the win xD
<knome> maybe it should be Ã¶bÃ¼ntÃ¼
<pleia2> haha
<jhenke> Ãubuntu ;)
<knome> or Ã¸bÉntÃ¦
<knome> i'm really surprised that the olympic games still do not know Ã¤...
<knome> kaisa maekaeraeinen
<knome> who? :P
<pleia2> my terminal is starting to puke on characters now
<pleia2> :)
<knome> pÅ©kÃ©
<pleia2> :P
<jhenke> I am glad we have unicode these days
<jhenke> so once new images are build, those should be clean off all the stuff that shouldn't be in there, right?
<elfy> jhenke: I'm not completely sure tbh - but we can ask for rebuilds if necessary
<jhenke> okay, would be nice to know though, as then I would burn a classic DVD with the image and install on the netbook here, but I want to avoid having to brun an image several times
<jhenke> still no usb stick support on that thing :(
<knome> jhenke, you can install plop, http://xubuntu.org/news/booting-the-xubuntu-usb-image-from-a-cd/
<knome> elfy, do you rather want a regular or image upgrade? (now that i have the DVD...)
<elfy> I think I would rather have regular ones done now - image ones are quikcer to do at the last minute if needed
<knome> oki
<knome> still resizing a partition
<knome> but will do a regular one then
<jhenke> knome thanks for the hint, but the device's BIOS is rather weired at times, I stick to normal DVD images :)
<slickymasterWork> elfy, I'll test RC tomorrow. Not able to download the image over here at work,
<jhenke> by the way as tegra cpu is mentioned on the ML, is xubuntu build with for arm/arm64?
<knome> no
<jhenke> okay
<jhenke> could be interesting though, but I guess lack of resources for that kind of port
<elfy> knome: I'm just going to wait for it to show as built in -release for the moment 
<brainwash> did we break anything? bug 1307545
<ubottu> bug 1307545 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power Manager settings are ignored when closing laptop lid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307545
<micahg> knome: I won't be available until after the release unfortunately, I wish you all luck and I hope to help more next cycle
<knome> micahg, well, all the fixes we can realistically get in are uploaded...
<knome> micahg, but thanks for letting us know
<knome> somebody wants to play with an image upgrade test?
<elfy> I'll play with loads - but I'm waiting to use the rc build when it appears
<knome> elfy, bug 1155167
<ubottu> bug 1155167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from image prompts creating a new user" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155167
<knome> elfy, we got some action there, want a log from trusty now
<elfy> I'm marked as that affecting me 
<elfy> I'll do one now for that with whatever ... 
<knome> elfy, see -release
<knome> i'll go check the status of my upgrade :P
<elfy> I wish I'd update the names of vms as I fiddle with them - just opened 4 to see they are all upgraded already :|
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah
<knome> what about snapshots?
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> :p
<elfy> is that like a backup ... 
<knome> yep
<elfy> I'm bad at them as well 
<knome> save a snapshot with a state -> you can always revert to that
<knome> well that's builtin in vbox
<elfy> yea 
<knome> it's just pressing a button and it does a snapshot for you
<knome> i never use them either
<knome> except when i know i'm going to do several upgrade tests in a row
<knome> we should write a xfce4-random-setup script
<knome> which would randomize the setup, and output a file that says human-readably what's done
<ali1234> randomize it how?
<knome> i'm mostly kidding, but randomize it like doing a "real world" setup
<ali1234> yeah but you mean like, moving the panels around? or installing different packages?
<knome> yeah
<knome> if the script was prefixed xubuntu-, it could also randomly install/remove(?) some packages as well
<ali1234> so everything...
<ali1234> i talked to tedg about the indicator-appmenu thing that was posted on the ML
<knome> i didn't follow the ML discussion too closely... can you give me a summary?
<ali1234> indicator-appmenu now loads all the time
<ali1234> so if you have xfce and unity, you get no menus in xfce, even if you hide the indicator-appmenu visible part
<knome> :|
<ali1234> this seems to be a side effect of upstart changes
<knome> right
<knome> sounds like SRU material
<ali1234> but it is not directly related to indicators, rather than UBUNTU_MENUPROXY stuff is being set in xfce unconditionally now
<brainwash> so that's the global menu?
<ali1234> brainwash: right
<brainwash> mmh
<ali1234> it probably affects gnome as well
<brainwash> guess I removed that already long time ago
<knome> ali1234, where do we set it??
<ali1234> knome: we don't
<knome> right
<ali1234> the unity people helpfully rewrote the script that used to handle it, and took out the desktop checks
<knome> what's the fix?
<ali1234> the fix is pester attente to fix it apparently :)
<knome> uhh...
<ali1234> there's nothing we can directly do
<ali1234> it's a unity problem
<elfy> no wonder I get cynical
<knome> ok, i wouldn't mind if it landed to the final 14.04 release
<knome> ali1234, keep pestering, and ping me if you need (background) support
<knome> is there a bug for it?
<ali1234> any fix would be in the package unity-gtk-module-common apparently
<ali1234> no, i was just drafting one
<knome> okay, let me know when it's reported
<ali1234> would be helpful if someone could confirm all this, i haven't tested it myself
<ali1234> i only have the ML post to go on
<knome> elfy, while you are doing the upgrade test.... :P
<brainwash> what's bad about having the global menu in Xfce?
<ali1234> brainwash: it doesn't work
<brainwash> oh
<ali1234> and also you can't turn it off
<knome> brainwash, "you get no menus in xfce"
<ali1234> you have a choice between no menus, and no menus and also it crashes every 5 minutes
<knome> heyyy!
<knome> fine choices there
<brainwash> purge it
<knome> i think i'll go with the crash every 5 minutes
<ali1234> yes, but people want to install xfce and unity on the same machine - that's the problem
<brainwash> unity AND xfce
<brainwash> that's madness!
<knome> brainwash, so it's not a problem on the default ISO/installation...
<brainwash> yeah
<knome> so it can go in as SRU...
<ali1234> so apparently this script is the problem: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity-gtk-module/trunk.14.04/view/head:/data/unity-gtk-module.conf
<elfy> knome: do you think I should randomly decide to forget what the old username is in this upgrade test for that bug?
<elfy> I did 
<brainwash> ali1234: so there is nothing we can do about it other than waiting until is gets fixed by the ubuntu guys?
<ali1234> pretty much
<brainwash> alright
<ali1234> seems like the fix will be easy, if you know what you are doing. unfortunately i don't
<ali1234> seems they didn't realise the problem until i mentioned it though
<brainwash> it's an user upstart script, right?
<knome> elfy, or just be the nasty friend who wants to mess up his mates pc :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> so I made sure to use loads of symbols from a uk keyboard layout too :p
<knome> uaah :D
<knome> well you're not testing if you can't log in... ;)
<knome> did you run ubiquity in debug mode?
<knome> also, did you remember to grab the logs when the dialog appeared?
<knome> sorry for babysitting... i might be a bit uptight atm..
<elfy> running ubiquity in debug mode - it's still cooking :)
<knome> oki
<knome> great
<knome> that's a semi-nasty bug really...
<elfy> yea
<elfy> knome: it's finished now - waiting for a response from him
<knome> elfy, i don't think it matters when you *attach* the logs, i think it matters when you *grab* them
<knome> and you should grab them while installing, or at least that was "ok"
<knome> elfy, will you paste the required links for guest2152352 for doing and LTS->LTS upgrade test and reporting it?
<knome> elfy, he should be here shortly
<elfy> knome: can only paste the daily tests
<knome> elfy, was thinking u1/lp account stuff and that..
<elfy> oic 
<elfy> not sure there are any of those
<elfy> anyway ... 
<elfy> guest2152352: hi - you're willing to do LTS to LTS tests I'm told :)
<elfy> do you have a Launchpad account?
<guest2152352> Probably not.  If I do I've long since forgotten.
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/ top right - register
<elfy> then on the new page create account
<guest2152352> Mmm, yup, already had one hehe.
<guest2152352> So I'm logged in now.
<elfy> excellent - so all I can give you at the moment are the links to the daily tests - we're still waiting for our RC image to appear
<elfy> but the system is the same
<elfy> the final images will be http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/65285/testcases for 64 bit upgrade testing
<ali1234> bug 1307657
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/65286/testcases for 32 bit
<knome> ali1234, thanks, a perfect report
<elfy> guest2152352: when you are on the upgrade test pages - there are 2 sets Desktop upgrade and LTS desktop upgrade (Precise) - these are the ones we are interested in 
<elfy> ali1234 knome - I'll try to get that confirmed as soon as I can
<elfy> knome: as I expected - upgrade via image where I forgot what name I had or was a nasty friend - I now have /home/hob and /home/elfy
<elfy> ali1234: will a virtual setup be ok to confirm that bug?
<ali1234> yeah it should be fine
<elfy> ok 
<knome> elfy, and i guess hob/elfy are both admins?
<elfy> didn't look at that 
<knome> well you could do that
<knome> because that would be the total takeover method
<knome> from GUI !!
<knome> i'll start carrying my desktop pc around wherever i go
<guest2152352> Ooookay, sorry for delay I'm at work right now hehe.  Anywho.
<guest2152352> Elfy: So how would I cause my system to take this upgrade?
<knome> guest2152352, 'update-manager -d' (GUI) or 'sudo release-upgrade -d' (CLI)
<knome> guest2152352, or: read the testcase
<knome> guest2152352, ...because you will need to report the result in the tracker anyway :)
<guest2152352> Ahh, I see.
<knome> also see the "bugs to look for" section
<knome> for... bugs to... look for, you know ;)
<elfy> knome: can't remember what the password was for hob - will reset it and check a bit later
<elfy> but I would assume that as it was an admin account it still will be 
<knome> yes, i'm sure
<knome> but the new account, is that an admin as well?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I just sudo -i'd to change the other ones password - but it says it doesn't exist
<knome> please note that in the bug
<knome> heh, so i guess the account has been deleted, but data kept
<knome> so even worse
<elfy> once I know what I know - I'll add it
<knome> the person who owns the pc now doesn't have an ccount at all
<knome> but the evil friend does
<elfy> yea
<elfy> knome: ok - so how about this then, nasty friend has upgraded with an image and used a different name - the old /home/hob folders are all completely gone
<knome> are they?
<elfy> yep
<knome> huhu
<knome> and you are sure the old username was "hob" ?
<elfy> yes - I can see the folder :)
<knome> so it's not completely gone?
<elfy> just empty 
<knome> or all the contents are?
<knome> hmm... did you check with sudo?
<elfy> well it had .cache and a few .bash files
<knome> should it have had more?
<knome> i guess the installer does some kind of deluser process...
<elfy> well it should at least have Desktop Downloads Pictures etc surely
<knome> i guess
<knome> now sauna
<elfy> :)
<knome> will be back after that
<elfy> cya later
<wabbla> hi all, i still don't have the sound-icon in the indicator-panel. i know there was a bug in 14.04 which should be fixed now. but not for me as it appears.
<guest2152352> elfy / knome: I have another question; I cannot remember whether my current install is 32 or 64-bit.  How would I check that, to know which testcase to respond to?
<amigamagic> uname -r
<elfy> -a
<amigamagic> you are right. -a
<amigamagic> on a debian distro -r is sufficient
<amigamagic> on ubuntu you have to use "uname -a"
<amigamagic> for example, on a debian 7 stable, uname -r => 3.2.0-4-amd64. On xubuntu 14.04: "3.13.0-24-generic". I wonder why this difference...
<ali1234> intherye: make sure you have all updates and install indicator-sound and add a indicator-plugin on your panel...
<elfy> wrong channel perhaps? 
<ali1234> no, changed nick
<elfy> :)
<amigamagic> ali1234, by chance, have you checked my bug report on launchpad?
<ali1234> oh sorry i forgot, hang on
<amigamagic> no problem, take your time :)
<elfy> ali1234: just installing ubuntu-desktop 
<ali1234> confirmed
<amigamagic> wow, are you Flash Gordon ?
<amigamagic> :D
<ali1234> i already reproduced it
<amigamagic> ah, ok... :)
<amigamagic> so the test case is reproducible in all 3 points?
<ali1234> well, i did notice a slight delay. assumed that was disk cache though?
<ali1234> i guess that would still show in the filesystem
<amigamagic> I checked in the file system and the file were created only after 8 seconds
<ali1234> point 3 is because of the panel struts
<ali1234> so that's not really a bug
<amigamagic> do you mean that it subtracts the panel height?
<ali1234> exactly
<amigamagic> ah, ok
<ali1234> or width if the panel is vertical
<intherye> ali1234:  i have xfce4-indicator-plugin 2.3.2-0ubuntu2. i have the icon for power and the application indicators, but sound is missing, although it's  listed in the properties and it's not hidden. would clear known indicators help?
<ali1234> probably not. are you sure you have indicator-sound installed?
<intherye> yes. and indicator-sound-gtk2
<ali1234> you should not need -gtk2 any more
<ali1234> what happens if you run /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service
<elfy> ali1234: so - installed xubuntu - ubuntu-desktop, rebooted and logged into xubuntu session - what is it you are expecting me to see - because at the moment it looks fine here
<ali1234> elfy: what is the value of echo $UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<elfy> 1
<ali1234> that means that menuproxy should be active and all your windows should have no menus
<ali1234> also desktop should crash like crazy when you run things like firefox
<ali1234> you might see menus in the indicator sometimes
<elfy> menus in things like transmission gmusicbrowser are ok 
<ali1234> is the indicator-appmenu hidden in theplugin?
<elfy> trying firefox
<intherye> ali1234: i get some errors (http://pastebin.com/jMGVJ1Hs), but the icon is here. i also deinstalled -gtk2 and killed and restarted the panel. the icon is here now. will check with logout and login.
<ali1234> some menus work okay, and will show in the indicator
<elfy> mmm
<ali1234> if you check on a machine without unity installed you should have UBUNTU_MENUPROXY unset
<elfy> echoes nothing on this machine
<ali1234> right
<elfy> ali1234: I assume you did this on hardware?
<intherye> ali1234: cool. it
<ali1234> no, i have not tried it
<elfy> ali1234: oh right - well I see no issue here
<ali1234> hmm :/
<ali1234> i guess i'll make a VM and test it then
<intherye> ali1234: ... it's here now. i wonder if i installed indicator-sound-gtk manually or if it was here from the previous release. thanks anyway.
<elfy> I'll install ubuntu into the older install on this machine see if I see different on hardware
<elfy> ali1234: ^^
<ali1234> if you have been upgrading there is a good chance things could get a bit messed up
<ali1234> elfy: hardware should not make any difference at all
<elfy> ok - well it's there at the moment doing nothing waiting to become 14.10 shortly
<elfy> so it's no hardship if it goes completely belly up
<ali1234> i know that appmenu can be made to "work"
<ali1234> because i tried it once and it crashed all the things
<jhenke> good night folks
<ali1234> in theory it should be activated if ubuntu-desktop is installed because there's nothing else that you need
<ali1234> but maybe you need some other package that tricks something
<ali1234> unlike -sound etc it doesn't have a backend that is started by upstart
<elfy> jhenke: good night
<elfy> ali1234: http://imagebin.org/305531
<ali1234> instead the apps themselves load an extra gtk module if the env var is set, that causes them to push the menus onto dbus (and maybe also hide them)
<ali1234> what do you see in the plugin config?
<ali1234> also what happens if you log in to unity, then log out, then log in to xfce?
<ali1234> without rebooting of course
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/305532
<ali1234> hmm so indicator-appmenu isn't in there
<elfy> I'll install it then shall I
<ali1234> ??
<ali1234> it should be installed with ubuntu-desktop
<ali1234> do you have appmenus in unity?
<ali1234> hmmmm.....
<elfy> it is installed
<ali1234> did you install ubuntu-desktop or ubuntu-desktop^?
<elfy> I have no idea if I have appmenus - wouldn't know what they look like
<ali1234> "global menus"
<elfy> I installed ubuntu-desktop
<ali1234> like OS X
<elfy> lol - no idea what that lookslike either
<ali1234> you know menus?
<ali1234> they go into the top panel...
<elfy> do you mean the menu that sits in the bar at the top?
<ali1234> yes
<elfy> yea - got those
<ali1234> indicator-appmenu is responsible for that
<ali1234> and it blows up in Xfce, if it is installed
<ali1234> or at least, that's the theory
<elfy> ok - so I logged out of xubuntu into unity - will logout and back into xubuntu
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/305535
<elfy> all looks ok still here 
<ali1234> there's no backend service though
<ali1234> and task manager has no menus anyway
<ali1234> do you have two panels?
<elfy> yep
<ali1234> okay
<elfy> I can do whatever you want to this 
<ali1234> okay i installed ubuntu-desktop^
<ali1234> and Application Menus (Global Menu) now shows in the plugin after i restarted the panel
<ali1234> but i didn't lose any menus... yet
<ali1234> but now i did
<ali1234> i have a file menu on the indicator... lol
<ali1234> and firefox has no menu
<ali1234> however, when the indicator is hidden it doesn't do anything
<elfy> mmm wonder what's different here then
<ali1234> maybe ubuntu-desktop^ - it installs more stuff
<ali1234> brb rebooting
<ali1234> i don't have all distro packages - some are built from source
<ali1234> transmission instantly crashes the panel
<elfy> mmm - I'm in xfce session and it won't logout from the 'ubuntu' cog
<ali1234> yeah that's a known bug
<elfy> oh ok 
<knome> elfy, lderan: about to do more upgrade tests?
<knome> i have a quest for you!
<knome> i think i know why i hit the nasty lightdm bug
<knome> but i think it's a bug that i hit it.
<knome> well, obviously...
<knome> the fact i hit it was because i was trying to avoid another bug
<elfy> I don't like quests 
<knome> elfy, adventures better?
<knome> anyway
<knome> before upgrading,
<knome> sudo apt-get remove xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> then upgrade
<knome> then you should be left without a graphical login
<knome> because /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf is... faulty
<Noskcaj> Did i miss anything in the last few days?
<knome> quite a lot.
<elfy> knome: ok - I'll check that while I'm doing upgrades
<knome> elfy, cheers
<knome> in which logfile are the stuff from tty1 again?
<texadactyl> elfy, any idea when the RC ISO will be available?
<texadactyl> Looking for it in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/
<elfy> knome: no idea
<elfy> texadactyl: they're building as I type - though xubuntu is usually last ... 
<texadactyl> ok
<Unit193> elfy: Nice, that should pick up the changes.
<knome> Unit193, ^
<Unit193> knome: Yeees?
<knome> in which logfile are the stuff from tty1 again?
<knome> or messages about wireless stuff generally
<Unit193> Hmmm.  I'd check the normal stuff, but install logs are in /var/log/installer/
<texadactyl> `dmesg` output should have it
<Unit193> Yep, that's one of the normal ones, that and syslog.
<knome> can't see the message i'm looking for in either
<Unit193> Which is...?
<knome> Unit193, got a message about the wireless not working with the module i had, then an URL...
<texadactyl> /var/log/udev
<texadactyl> also, /dev/log/auth.log
<texadactyl> both of them
<knome> nope...
<Unit193> All else fails...
<texadactyl> that's where I see /dev/tty1 references
<texadactyl> `dmesg` shows kernel messages which should include all hardware (E.g. wireless)
<ali1234> okay, rebooted and everything is the same
<ali1234> when the indicator is hidden in the plugin everything works normally for me
<ali1234> after restarting the panel
<texadactyl> that #@$%^&*!!! indicator ... drove me crackers
<elfy> texadactyl: we're talking about bug 1307657
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<texadactyl> yeah I know
<knome> texadactyl, calm down and keep the attitude and language family-friendly
<texadactyl> But I self-censored!!  (=:
<knome> that's not acceptable either
<texadactyl> I should have put a happy face after my remark
<knome> no, you should have refrained from sending that message
<lderan> knome, quests sounds good
<knome> 23:31  knome: before upgrading,
<knome> 23:31  knome: sudo apt-get remove xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> 23:31  knome: then upgrade
<knome> 23:31  knome: then you should be left without a graphical login
<knome> 23:31  knome: because /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf is... faulty
<lderan> aye was reading that part :P
<knome> yep, that's the quest
<knome> i hit that bug with both lts->lts and 13.10->lts
<lderan> shall boot a vm up
<Unit193> Wait, you broke lightdm on upgrade? 0_o
<knome> lightdm config
<knome> when xubuntu-default-settings is not installed.
<Unit193> Of course.
<knome> leaves lightdm.conf with:
<knome> user-session=
<knome> greeter-session=
<Unit193> lightdm-set-defaults is weird.
<elfy> weirder than that - it's gone
<Unit193> I know.
<starrats> should I even attempt to update/upgrade later on?
<knome> starrats, you want to help but are afraid of anything breaking?
<starrats> not afraid
<starrats> but don't know how to repair the break, really haven't ever fixed a breakage of linux, sorry
<knome> starrats, obviously, people are here to help you
<starrats> I Have just completed update with no problems, currently upgrading atm
<knome> starrats, make sure you report the test on the tracker
<starrats> ok
<elfy> there isn't a testcase for an update/upgrade that I know of
<knome> dist-upgrade?
<knome> i thought we were talking about release upgrade.
<elfy> starrats: we're right in the last few days of release week - all we really want to be talking about is image testing and what's going on with them
<starrats> well all update/upgrade/dist-upgrade went as smooth as silk, one of the fastest terms ever for the three
<starrats> ah ok
<elfy> if you start talking about update/upgrade tests then we will assume you mean an upgrade from 13.10 to 14.04 or 12.04 to 14.04
<starrats> ah ok sorry
<knome> so...
<elfy> we're really not interested in normal updates at all currently - it's too late for that now
<starrats> ok
<knome> did anybody else get left with a huge amount of icons under the "settings" menu?
<knome> or, to be exact, we're interested in normal updates only if there are regressions
<knome> but that's the case always
<knome> we never specifically log updates
<elfy> knome: in the 12.04 to 14.04 update re settings menu?
<elfy> if that's the case then afaik that's as expected as it not having whiskermenu
<Unit193> knome: You removed xubuntu-default-settings, it's expected if you didn't change the menu layout settings.
<knome> Unit193, but i reinstalled it...
<knome> Unit193, and i diffed xdg dirs, and they are the same as on my desktop
<knome> Unit193, ...from which i also removed xubuntu-default-settings before upgrading
<Unit193> knome: .config/
<knome> Unit193, that too.
<knome> (diffed)
<knome> actually, the menus-dir is empty for the new installation
<knome> shouldn't it just resort to the xdg dirs in that case anyway
<knome> elfy, not really, have it working on my desktop without whisker
<knome> wait
<knome> hmm
<knome> yeah, i have no settings submenu
<elfy> gtg - back in the morning for a short while - likely to be working all day tomorrow though
<texadactyl> General question: Since xubuntu-default-settings is installed with 12.04.xx, what set of circumstances might remove it other than an operator manually doing this and thus removing xubuntu-desktop at the same time?
<knome> texadactyl, it's not a common scenario, but since there is a packaging bug/issue with -default-settings, it's a possible scenario
<knome> no, you probably won't accidentally remove it
<knome> bluesabre will probably have fun with all of my menulibre bugs
<texadactyl> Thanks.  So, the probability of the general population running into this is small.  I had the 1307657 symptom for a week and then it went away after a large upgrade which included xfce4 packages.  I wish that I had kept better track of things but I was very busy with my day job at the time.
<knome> when you reference to bugs, please use the format bug 1307657 so the bot picks them up
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<knome> ^ as you see
<texadactyl> ah, my bad
<knome> slickymaster, you still around?
<knome> slickymaster, want to continue the sprint?
<knome> got my wife's laptop install ready and the user landed to bed, now free to work on other things ;)
<slickymaster> yeaps knome 
<slickymaster> was about to ping you on that
<slickymaster> give just a second to browse through my mail
<knome> np, will need to run some small errands myself
<knome> lderan, join us; http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Tour
<lderan> okay :)
<knome> hey brainwash 
<brainwash> :P
<Noskcaj>  knome is that a tour similar to on the ubuntu website? i.e. a mini vm
<knome> vm?
<knome> ah, no
<Noskcaj> I wonder how hard it would be to add a xubuntu online tour.
<knome> Ã¡ la the ubuntu mini-vm?
<Noskcaj> yep
<knome> well, pay me for one months work and i'll get it done ;)
<knome> it's a relatively complex project with all the little things going on
<Noskcaj> knome, I'll add that to my list of reasons each flavour needs a paid dev
<olbi> hi guys :D
<knome> Noskcaj, ack
<knome> slickymaster, do you use firefox?
<Noskcaj> hey olbi 
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Welcome to pkg-multimedia
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> Stalker. ;)
<Noskcaj> :)
<slickymaster> nopes, knome 
<slickymaster> chrome
<knome> aha
<knome> seems to have stylish as well
<knome> install that
<slickymaster> hey Noskcaj, Unit193 o/
<knome> (plugin)
<Noskcaj> hey slickymaster 
<Unit193> slickymaster: Howdy.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Also, would have to be approved.
<slickymaster> what plugin lderan 
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I just approved you
<knome> slickymaster, stylish
<slickymaster> bah, not lderan but Noskcaj 
<Unit193> Oh.
<Noskcaj> That's why the "Welcome to the team"
<slickymaster> arghh
<lderan> slickymaster, :P
<knome> slickymaster, lol ;)
<Unit193> Hah, I lose.
<knome> slickymaster, you are at loss!
<slickymaster> knome: /finally where is that plugin available?
<knome> slickymaster, lol, chrome app store
<slickymaster> I'll be damn if I'm not going dumb
<slickymaster> give me a second knome 
<knome> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish/npikillpmgojgbdikjjeihibdlhncili
<knome> ^ that's it
<slickymaster> already instaleed
<knome> okay
<slickymaster> sigh
<knome> add a new style then
<slickymaster> installed
<knome> slickymaster, then paste this to the style: http://pastebin.com/pXcwPdwr
<knome> and preview
<knome> and the chat will be shown completely
<slickymaster> don't like most of the names of the given styles
<knome> lol
<knome> just create a new one
<knome> and name it "kittens in the garden" ;)
<slickymaster> it's better
<knome> yep... it now shows the whole chat
<lderan> huzzah
<knome> anybody registered at userstyles.org?
<lderan> i am now :P
<knome> feel free to upload that piece of junk ;P
<lderan> http://userstyles.org/styles/100327/ubuntu-pad-chat-fix there you go
<knome> great, thanks
<knome> (c) lderan ;)
<knome> don't mind though:P
<lderan> oops
<knome> it's really... nothing
<lderan> theres no option to change it ;_;
<knome> that's fine, i was just joking
<lderan> :P
<knome> if i'd be anal about it, i would have registered myself
<lderan> aye lol
<guest2152352> And I'm back from work, with another question: Following along on the test case instructions, step 4 says run update-manager -d -c, then click the upgrade button.  The upgrade that it is offering me is 12.10. Should it not be 14.04? I am on 12.04.4 LTS.
<knome> with -d, it should offer 14.04, weird.
<knome> Unit193!
<knome> Unit193, where's the conf in 12.04 for only select LTS upgrades?
<Unit193> In /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<guest2152352> Alter prompt from normal to lts?
<guest2152352> It is currently set to normal.
<guest2152352> Actually.
<guest2152352> Step 2 of the test instructions says to set update-manager to look 'for any newer version'.  If I ignore that step and tell it to look for LTS versions instead, it offers 14.04.
<knome> huzzah, a bug in the testcase
<slickymaster> I'll take it
<guest2152352> Well, yay, hehe.  Anyways, 14.04 is what I do actually want, correct?
<knome> guest2152352, yep.
<guest2152352> Got it, thanks.
<slickymaster> hmm, not sure. That's one of elfy's babies
<knome> slickymaster, nah, go ahead
<knome> slickymaster, i can push it to production once you are ready
<guest2152352> BTW if somebody plans to edit that...
<guest2152352> It may be helpful to clarify that by 'run software sources', it means 'click the settings button'. >.>  Took me a sec to get it, but maybe I'm slow.
<slickymaster> guest2152352: can you post the link to the testcase so I wan't lose time searching it
 * slickymaster hides in shame for not having it bookmarked
<slickymaster> s/lose/loose
<guest2152352> slickymaster: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1635/info  
<slickymaster> thanks for TheDrums at guest2152352 
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> tomorrow elfy will poke me with his stick for this one
<knome> hah
<amigamagic> someone knows why thunar is so slow in browsing an smb folder the first time?
<knome> amigamagic, #xubuntu please
<amigamagic> ok but it's related to the last xfce 4.11
<slickymaster> knome: is it worth to file a bug? I think it would be faster just to edit the test, right?
<amigamagic> or is it very slow on previous versions too?
<knome> slickymaster, if you're doing it right now, don't file a bug
<slickymaster> I'n accessing the test in LP as we speak
<slickymaster> preparing to branch it
<knome> slickymaster, you can even paste the new testcase content into a pastebin, and i can push it directly to the main branch + tracker
<slickymaster> faster would be impossible
<knome> pretty much
<slickymaster> guest2152352: not sure if it's really need to clarify that step
<slickymaster> knome: ^^what do you think?
<slickymaster> I mean about guest2152352 suggestion on the clarification of run software sources meaning click the settings button
<guest2152352> It's no biggy either way.  I just initially thought it meant I was to launch a separate program, not alter the settings in the one I was in.  Took all of a few seconds to realize, though; probably immediately obvious to people who do this sort of thing more regularly.
<knome> i think it's borderline insignificant, but it can't hurt to mention it i guess
<knome> well, we want to enable and encourage new people to run tests, so...
<slickymaster> ok, I'll change that too
<slickymaster> knome: http://pastebin.com/tbDeCxZz
<knome> ta, will get to it now
<knome> does the image-test need changes?
<knome> i guess not
<slickymaster> I don't think so, also
<knome> in branch and tracker
<amigamagic> knome, I don't know if I should report here, but being that I use often vmware player, I noticed that on 14.04 the vmware player bundle you can download from vmware official site doesn't work.
<amigamagic> The installation hangs when it want to compile the module vmnet. I think it's because the kernel 3.13 has something that the vmware installer doesn't like.
<amigamagic> After many search I found this link: http://ping8888.com/2013/12/13/vmware-modules-kernel-3-13/, I followed the procedure and it works! Now I have vmware player working on xubuntu 14.04 too!
<knome> well it's a vmware problem, not sure how useful it is for people here
<knome> i don't think many of our testers use it
<knome> but it's the same with virtualbox; they keep regressing because they do not support all the new kernel (or other) features
<slickymaster> knome: you can drop a line in -quality to balloons saying "Already fixed. xubuntu team's commitment to the rigor is serious"
<amigamagic> ok, sorry if the info was not relevant in this channel
<slickymaster> you didn't, I did
<knome> hehe, yeah, had already posted my rant ;)
<slickymaster> knome: give me a minute to have a smoke and we'll continue with what we were doing
<knome> sure
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-15
<slickymaster> ok, knome 
<knome> yeppers.
<slickymaster> I think we have the community stuff almost ready
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> yep, only some text tweaks, but the content is there
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> anything I need to do?
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster
<knome> let's add some photo from the community wallpaper contest + some nice text
 * bluesabre is upgrading his desktop to trusty
<knome> bluesabre, i filed yet another menulibre bug
<bluesabre> I saw that
<bluesabre> or... "oh you!"
<knome> haha
<knome> that was really random.
<knome> it just flipped over on me.
<bluesabre> anyway you could attach your .menu file?
<bluesabre> *any way
<knome> i'll do that when i'm on wife's laptop next time
<bluesabre> thanks
<knome> how do i make sure which menu file menulibre uses?
<bluesabre> if you use xfce
<knome> that would be useful information somewhere
<bluesabre> its xfce4-applications.menu
<slickymaster> knome, some nice text? about the artwork?
<bluesabre> yeah, I need to add a bug reporting guide to my docs
<bluesabre> I would you could add bug reporting guidelines to launchpad
<bluesabre> *wish
<bluesabre> I suck at typing today
<knome> bluesabre, well since menulibre knows the exact file path, you could print that somewhere
<knome> (on request)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I think it might
<bluesabre> with -vv
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> but maybe not
<knome> you could also make it a command line parameter to edit any file
<bluesabre> yeah, but that would probably cause me more grief
<knome> i know it's a border case, but sounds trivial to do
<knome> really?
<bluesabre> though its on my todo list
<knome> heh, okay
<bluesabre> my blog is getting too popular it seems
<bluesabre> every time I post something its like a DOS attack
<knome> "too popular" :P
<bluesabre> have to restart the server
<knome> hahah
<bluesabre> its not even a blog
<bluesabre> its release notes
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> have you got a cache plugin in place?
<lderan> :(
<bluesabre> I've tried
<bluesabre> but those don't help
<knome> aha...
<bluesabre> and created some interesting issues today
<bluesabre> it cached the dead page
<bluesabre> that was fun
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> going to push my server to 14.04 when it becomes available to digital ocean
<bluesabre> hopefully that will help
<knome> you know what'll help? use debian
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> I've considered it
<bluesabre> :]
<bluesabre> or centos
<bluesabre> but rpm is just evil
 * bluesabre also hides
<bluesabre> I'm actually upgrading my server over vnc, so this will be more fun potentially
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can't just update it?
<bluesabre> s/server/desktop
<Unit193> VNC?! :P
<Unit193> Use ssh?
<bluesabre> too lazy
<bluesabre> and can't count that as a test
<Unit193> Why not?
<knome> bluesabre, haven't heard too good things about centos, but no firsthand experience
<lderan> have had to use it in the past
<bluesabre> Unit193: not listed on the tracker
<Unit193> bluesabre: Upgrade tests.
<bluesabre> no terminal upgrade test
<knome> bluesabre, don't tell anyone, but i reported one CLI upgrade test as well
<bluesabre> :O
<bluesabre> cheater!
<knome> yep
<Unit193> Or, err, if you need to use upgrade-manager, then you'll have to remove all of mine...
<slickymaster> -qa lead will poke for that knome 
<slickymaster> +you
<Unit193> slickymaster: So I'll get multipoked. :P
<knome> Unit193, in both eyeeees!
<lderan> huzzah :P
<knome>  *prod!*
<slickymaster> yeah Unit193, that will come your way, too
<Unit193> slickymaster: Only worse, I reported 4. :P
<knome> so will have to poke you in both eyes, twice
 * slickymaster laughs really loud
<knome> or only once for the other if you count the lower... nevermind.
<guest2152352> If something goes wrong in this upgrade, it will stop or something, won't it?  That is, I don't have to physically sit here and watch the progress bar slowly increment / stuff zip past in terminal, right?  
<knome> guest2152352, doesn't the testcase tell you to sit still with one finger in your nose? that's another testcase bug...
<guest2152352> Bah
<knome> yeah, feel free to wander around
<knome> if that was a requirement, i would get more poking in the eyes
<guest2152352> It's 6:15 and my stomach is rumbling.  Just want to make sure it's not going to do any 'click here to not light your computer on fire in 5...4....3...' type shenanigans. :P
<slickymaster> ah ah ah
<lderan> knome, and no one would like that
<knome> guest2152352, hmm, it might... ;)
<Unit193> guest2152352: No, it'd just sit tight and wait for you to respond, or does with do-release-upgrade.
<slickymaster> well it will ask something about libd6 IIRC guest2152352 
<Unit193> libc, genious.
<lderan> guest2152352, i didn't get a countdown :P
<knome> Unit193, same with GUI
<knome> slickymaster, libc6 :P
<knome> slickymaster, and most probably xscreensaver/xlockmore
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> and possibly at least one other configuration file
<guest2152352> It had me stop the screensaver when it first started, but hasn't done anything since.  But okeydoke, and thanks for the help so far, by the way.
<Unit193> Oh come on?  No one bit the misspelling? :'(
<knome> Unit193, lol
<slickymaster> yes for libc6 knome, not for the xscreensaver
<slickymaster> it doesn't does nothing with it during the upgrade
<knome> you mean "doesn't do anything" :P
<slickymaster> Unit193, let's poke XPL while he's still XPL
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> hah
<lderan> slickymaster, sounds good to me :P
<bluesabre> I'm in
<bluesabre> knome
<bluesabre> poke
 * knome considers writing a script that hides the quit+next join message if the quit message is "Changing host"
<bluesabre> Changing host
<knome> bluesabre, quit message!
<bluesabre> close enough
<knome> hah
<knome> /kick bluesabre Quit message
 * bluesabre [~sean@is_awesome] has quit [Changing host]
<knome> lol
<knome> invalid host
<bluesabre> bah
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: Good plan.
<bluesabre> wrong one starrats
<knome> haha
<knome> slickymaster, which one is better?
<knome> the former one is a bit verbose
<knome> somehow...
<knome> and kind of feels like it's circling around the issue
<knome> and repeating a bit
<slickymaster> yes, I see that way too
<knome> default artwork, desktop looks, themes
<slickymaster> you're right
<knome> i'd love if we could squeeze in a section or two
<knome> and more artwork
<knome> obviously...
<slickymaster> well, there's the wallpaper to be added
<knome> mhm
<knome> thinking we could use just the mouse as well
<slickymaster> without a question
<slickymaster> thing is what about the other one?
<knome> i'm bored with desktop screenshots
<knome> other one what? :)
<knome> you lost me in a second.
<slickymaster> the community wallpaper. which one where you thinking of using?
<knome> oh, no idea
<knome> throw a die?
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> you'll end up with a voting within the -website team
<slickymaster> as for make the desktop your own, I would only stick to your wallpaper
<knome> or the mouse?
<slickymaster> that's the one I'm talking about
<slickymaster> aren't they the same?!
<knome> i mean, just the mouse part
<knome> not the whole wallpaper
<slickymaster> oh
<slickymaster> yes, just the mouse part
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> BTW, let me say it again
<slickymaster> god damn fabulous wallpaper
<knome> hehe
<guest2152352> ?
<knome> thanks thanks
<slickymaster> butt, all and all I think we have the tour page more than stitched up
<knome> well, probably
<knome> let's leave it simmering for a bit
<slickymaster> hmmm, that means that hyou're not happy with it
<knome> well as i said, maybe one or two sections more
<knome> and with those, some artwork or something
<knome> i think we could go with "balance" for the community wallpaper choice
<knome> that's colorful and works in a smaller size as well
<slickymaster> what sections were you thinking of'
<knome> that's the problem... i don't know ;)
<knome> hardware support?
<knome> (with ubuntu core stuff maybe)
<slickymaster> what is the balance one? I just remember ochosi's (the one with the rocks/pebbles) and one with a mountain
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/community-wallpaper-contest-winners/
<slickymaster> good catch knome, the hardware support is something to be addressed
<slickymaster> that's the winner, right?
<knome> no, just alphabetically first :P
<knome> they are all winners
<knome> we didn't pick one "best"
<knome> hmm...
<slickymaster> oh, don't know where I got that idea from
<knome> i'm thikning you're not thinking what i am thinking
<slickymaster> apparently, most definitely not
<slickymaster> what are you thinking?
<knome> see the pad :)
<slickymaster> you wanted to be inclusive and not the other way around
<knome> well, we speak about "older machines" already
<knome> and lightweightness
<knome> now we want to expand to "plugin your device, it'll probably work"
<slickymaster> not in the tour page
<knome> hmm?
<knome> Xubuntu is built around lightweight software with a lot of consideration on usability. Whether you have a high-end computer or even a moderately older machine, Xubuntu is able to provide you with a smooth and usable desktop experience.
<slickymaster> well, that's a bit broader
<slickymaster> but you were right I wasn't thinking what you were thinking :P
<knome> hehe
<knome> i think it's fair to give some credit to ubuntu as well
<knome> though i *am* thinking it would fit well in the existing section
<slickymaster> okay, and TBH I think that having "A good balance" as first topic/section is quite a good choice
<knome> yes, seems to flow better now
<slickymaster> it lands perfectly, because it manages to have a dual meaning, both as a begining and an end
<knome> yeah, i really like this flow now
<knome> i actually think we should land this now
<knome> and keep on improving if we find things to fix
<slickymaster> I'm happy with it
<slickymaster> of course
<knome> lderan, want to do a grammar check?
<lderan> yup
<knome> bbiab
<knome> lderan, ping me when you are done and i'll get that up
<lderan> i don't see anything else
<knome> oki
<bluesabre> sheesh
<knome> bluesabre, wah?
<bluesabre> I'm not sure what any of you are thinking most of the time
<knome> ? :D
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> one more item to hold a check status in 
<slickymaster> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs
<lderan> cheese at the moment
<knome> lderan, lol!
<bluesabre> :)
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> i litearlly laughed out loud
<slickymaster> so did I
 * knome laughs more imagining lderan thinking about cheese
<knome> reminds me of wallace and gromit
<knome> which i'm sure is on pleia2's highlight
<slickymaster> that reminds that's it's 2:15 AM overe here
<knome> hah
<slickymaster> time for a late snack
<knome> put +2 to that
<lderan> :P
<slickymaster> yeah, your timezone is a b%&$%
 * slickymaster goes to the freezer to get himself some icecream
<knome> lol
<lderan> yeah i get the same thing knome on the upgrade
<knome> lderan, mhm...
<lderan> now i must sleep, thankfully working from home...today :P
<lderan> good night all :)
<knome> good night, and good luck :)
<knome> slickymaster, some progress at http://xubuntu.org/tour/
<slickymaster> checking it now
<slickymaster> I almost forgot the new layout
<knome> hehe
<slickymaster> knome, you forgot your wallpaper in the make the desktop your own item
<knome> i didn't
<knome> i said "some progress"
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> another thing, is it the wordpress forcing the size of the font in the banner with the images
<slickymaster> it's smaller
<knome> no
<knome> well, it's the "regular" font size
<knome> i think it's okay
<knome> try to make the browser narrower
<slickymaster> just curious
<slickymaster> will do
<knome> it works pretty well in the smallest size as well
<slickymaster> hm hm
<knome> a bit of a breath at that point is good as well
<knome> imo
<slickymaster> seeing it now
<knome> but we can improve that to the end of the world ;)
<slickymaster> yeah agree
<slickymaster> it's pretty good
<slickymaster> it just lacks your 'mouse'
<knome> yep
<knome> working on it
<knome> hmmm....
<knome> :P
<knome> need to work on the color
 * slickymaster has to poke pleia2 about the fact that the portuguese link isn't listed in the http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-marketing-with-startubuntu-flyer/ section
<knome> slickymaster, paste me the links and i'll add it in a sec
<slickymaster> good point knome
<slickymaster> let me see if I can find them
<knome> http://spreadubuntu.org/pt-br/material/poster/portuguese-br-startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-a4
<knome> that's the pt-br
<knome> http://spreadubuntu.org/pt/material/poster/portuguese-startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-a4
<knome> there we go
<knome> doh
<knome> that's the blog article
<knome> slickymaster, http://xubuntu.org/products/
<slickymaster> http://spreadubuntu.org/files/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_A4_PT.png
<slickymaster> http://spreadubuntu.org/files/huge/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_A4_PT.pdf
<slickymaster> http://spreadubuntu.org/files/source/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_A4_PT.svg
<slickymaster> so it's in another page
<slickymaster> great
<slickymaster> much better now knome 
<knome> i updated the article
<knome> now it points equally to the products page
<knome> i'm not completely satisfied with the mouse color, but i'll look at it later
<knome> it's good enough for now
<slickymaster> i like the work with the grades of pink
<knome> i'm also thinking one more thing
<slickymaster> what?
<knome> rip off the mouse from the blue background
<knome> and put it in between the green/blue boxes a similar fashion as the wallpapers
<knome> and say something about xfce and the xubuntu logo
<slickymaster> theoretically it has everything to work
<slickymaster> visually I mean
<knome> it would give again more space to breath
<knome> we'll do that!
<knome> slickymaster, refresh
<slickymaster> I like it
<slickymaster> and it does opens the page
<knome> lol
<knome> the one on the top was not on purpose :D
<knome> (the mouse jumped at the page title!)
<slickymaster> don't remove it though
<knome> i did
<knome> it was meh
<slickymaster> didn't thought that
<slickymaster> any way, really like the page
 * knome pokes the mouse a bit more 
<slickymaster> its color?
<knome> hmm, trying to add a white "glow" under it
<knome> but don't seem to work very well :P
<slickymaster> the background color isn't much of a help
<knome> getting a nice glow would involve manually adjusting the padding and stuff
<knome> won't go that route
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> at least at this hour
<knome> mm
<knome> yeah, but i really like this too
<slickymaster> I'm happy with it
<slickymaster> it was a productive session
<knome> yep, and it concludes the -docs blueprint!
<slickymaster> yes, that was the last item
<slickymaster> last man standing
<knome> next is marketing
<knome> let's try to squeeze in a session with the flyer content some day
<knome> it's almost ready
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers
<knome> design-wise as well...
<slickymaster> okay, I'll try to help
<slickymaster> never had done much marketing stuff
<knome> well you did today ;)
<knome> but really, look at the wikipage
<knome> we pretty much only need to fill in that one gap on the middle of the page
<knome> the rest will autofill with copyright notices et al
<knome> and then rethink the frontpage
<knome> and that's it really
<slickymaster> are you refrrinf to the Formats?
<knome> no, scroll down
<slickymaster> *referring
<knome> there's an image
<knome> which is an export from a working copy
<slickymaster> I see
<knome> and once we get the content ready.. i can pretty much directly export the PDF's
<slickymaster> desing wise it's not pretty
<knome> really?
<knome> thanks! :P
<knome> you got to remember we are limiting ourself to home printers
<slickymaster> don't take it like that
<knome> so can't make anything overlap or go too close to page border
<knome> and it will need to work in b&w
<slickymaster> it's too conservative, that's what I meant
<knome> those two things limit what we can do, a lot
<knome> huh, you should have seen the working copy without the images :P
<slickymaster> you see, I wasn't taking in considerations those factors
<knome> it used to be utter poop ;)
<slickymaster> i believe you
<knome> now it's at least informative, and doesn't make you puke (at least immediately)
<slickymaster> we can work on it tomorrow
<slickymaster> if you're free
<knome> dunno, wife has a day off ;>
<slickymaster> I was referring at night
<knome> yes... i said wife has a day off ;P
<slickymaster> wednesday or thursday
<knome> heh, well
<knome> i'll be around for the meeting
<slickymaster> i'll be home until next Monday
<knome> you remember we have a meeting, right?
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> good
<slickymaster> and I'll be able to make it
<knome> i'll be around at some time tomorrow
<knome> let's see how schedules work
<knome> and let's try to get pleia2 give us an opinion or two
<slickymaster> ok, I'll be moderating the forums
<knome> who's clearly hiding!
<slickymaster> she's under the same symptoms that Unit193's alter ego is showing
<knome> nah
<knome> this is her awake-time :P
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> if I caught her off guard, I'll poke her
<knome> heh
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i still have something WIP
<knome> :D
<knome> !12.10
<ubottu> 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) was the 17th release of Ubuntu. Download at http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.10/ - Release Notes: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1210
<knome> pfft
<knome> !eol
<ubottu> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<knome> pfft
<slickymaster> what are you chasing knome 
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> if 12.10 is already eol or not
<knome> it must be one of these days
<Unit193> No, 3 days.
<slickymaster> yeaps
<knome> Unit193, before or after release day?
<knome> or on?
<Unit193> Supposed to be after.
<knome> aha
<slickymaster> I think is to be after trusty release
<Unit193> Upgrade path and all...
<knome> can we dismiss that and take the docs for 12.10 down that day?
<Unit193> I'd say so. :P
 * slickymaster is no longer here
<slickymaster> cy
<bluesabre> ok, this should work more efficiently now
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> pleia2, i've prepared https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage for you <3
<knome> bluesabre, did you take a look at http://xubuntu.org/tour/ ?
<bluesabre> why is the font with the mouse and with the screenshots smaller?
<knome> oh come on! :D
<knome> it's the regular size
<bluesabre> its inconsistent
<knome> everything else is just bigger
<knome> no.. it's lesser importance
<bluesabre> eh, I think it would be better if it were the same
<knome> eh, the time came and went ;)
<bluesabre> but thats just me
<knome> i've been thinkin abou that as well...
<knome> and i keep coming back to the conclusion it's okay this way
<knome> maybe the smaller text parts should be longer
<bluesabre> >.>
<Unit193> Yeah, I did that one.
<pleia2> knome: cool
<elfy> if anyone comes here wanting to know what we need testing - push them at upgrades if possible
<elfy> I've got through a basic set of vbox tests this morning - will do some hardware ones later
<elfy> not had time to do live session checks - so that's something people can do as well 
<elfy> tracker is down atm though ... 
<jhenke> goood morning guys
<jhenke> great work everybody the iso from yesterday seems clean!
<knome> elfy, will do
<jhenke> found a minor bug, mostly just annoying, bug 1307897
<ubottu> bug 1307897 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "locking screen with light-locker disables num pad led, while the numpad itself remains turned on" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307897
<knome> heh
<knome> weird one
<knome> hummm
<jhenke> yes it is, but as I said just annoying as the LED is not corresponding to the state of the num pad anymore
<knome> i locked, then unlocked, and now it says light-locker isn't running
<jhenke> I guess light-locker still needs some polichment :)
<knome> actually, i can't reproduce your bug
<knome> for me, numlock+Äºed is turned off, and when i unlock, it's off
<knome> no, wait
<jhenke> knome: I was expecting it, but it is reproducebale on this PC
<knome> when i unlock, the led is off but numlock is on
<jhenke> ahh, yes that is what I mean
<knome> but in light-locker, it works as expected
<knome> hmph, now it worked again
<knome> and now light-locker is not running again
<brainwash> light-locker is causing some trouble due to the vt switch
<knome> brainwash, is it normal that after you unlock, light-locker-command -l just says "** Message: light-locker is not running" :|
<brainwash> did it crash? you can start it with "light-locker --debug" and watch what exactly happens
<knome> yep
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7254054/
<brainwash> oh :/
<brainwash> so it crashes every time you start light-locker and lock the screen?
<knome> yep...
<brainwash> this is rather bad
<jhenke> bbl
<brainwash> not running in the background -> no locking anymore
<knome> yep.
<knome> can you follow me through how i'll get the backtrace for you or should i just file the bug without it?
<brainwash> you could run it with gdb
<brainwash> and file a bug report on https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues
<knome> just 'gdb light-locker' ?
<brainwash> yes
<knome> what about the GDK_SYNCHRONIZE env var?
<brainwash> do two runs
<knome> hmm, running under gdb means no light-locker running
<knome> will i have to run light-locker-command -l in a special way?
<brainwash> did you actually start light-locker in gdb?
<brainwash> with "run"
<knome> no
<knome> :P
<knome> i told you you need to follow me through
<brainwash> maybe you should read a tutorial about gdb first :D
<knome> NAWWH!
<brainwash> after it crashes you type "bt full"
<brainwash> but I'm thinking, maybe it's related to the compositor, can you disable it and test again?
<knome> can do that
<knome> terminal went unresponsive
<brainwash> mmh
<knome> no, same without compositor
<brainwash> maybe you really need to run GDK_SYNCHRONIZE=1 gdb light-locker
<knome> guess it's ok to run from a TTY1?
<brainwash> uhm no
<knome> okay
<brainwash> try with env var first
<knome> still makes terminal unresponsive
<knome> i can't type anything, i can close the windows though
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> is apport already deactivated?
<knome> no
<knome> or, i don't think it is
<brainwash> maybe the crash does not trigger it
<knome> mhm
<brainwash> perhaps someone in #ubuntu-devel has an idea
<knome> bah, i don't have *too* much time for this now :/
<brainwash> and I don't have a clue how to handle this crash :/
<brainwash> hopefully it won't affect many people
<knome> yep
<knome> i don't really *need* locking here
<knome> i just wanted to reproduce jhenke's bug
<knome> it might have something to do with the nvidia proprietary drivers and dual monitor setup...
<brainwash> ah, but you should still file a bug report and mention which hardware and graphics driver you use
<knome> i'll file that later
<brainwash> ok :)
<knome> actually, could do it now
<knome> quickly...
<knome> bug 1307929
<ubottu> bug 1307929 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker crashes on every unlock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307929
<amigamagic> I tried to do light-locker in a terminal and it doesn't happens nothing
<amigamagic> I should do it with sudo ?
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> what do you expect to happen?
<amigamagic> I should give some paramters to it?
<brainwash> does it return to the prompt?
<amigamagic> no
<brainwash> so it's running
<amigamagic> I have to press CTRL-C to return to the prompt
<brainwash> so what exactly are you trying to achieve?
<brainwash> you want some debug output?
<amigamagic> I was trying to reproduce the reported bug
<brainwash> add --debug to the command
<brainwash> light-locker --debug
<amigamagic> ok... Exactly what should do this command?
<brainwash> it starts light-locker in debug mode
<brainwash> then you lock the session with "light-locker-command -l"
<amigamagic> ah ok
<amigamagic> it works
<amigamagic> it goes to the lock screen
<amigamagic> is it a problem that concerns only nvidia card users?
<brainwash> maybe
<amigamagic> btw, I have a very very slow thunar when it tries to resolve names of a windows share. I think the problem is related with my current ethernet drivers, because on a virtual machine it's not so slow. I mean: 4-5 minutes to browse a windows share I think is a little too much...
<brainwash> only with thunar?
<amigamagic> with nautilus is a little faster, but is always slow
<amigamagic> natulus at least gives feedback to the user when it's trying to resolve host names (like a spinning icon, a info window, etc.). Thunar doesn't tell you nothing... It just leaves you with an unresponsive window until it has resolved the host names.
<knome> amigamagic, this isn't the right channel to ask about that.
<amigamagic> knome, being that I think it's more an ethernet driver problem, there is a channel where I could report this?
<knome> to be honest, there probably is, but i really don't know
<knome> it might be good to ask just #ubuntu first
<amigamagic> ok, thanks
<olbi> guys, we need two clocs in top right corner? :)
<amigamagic> olbi, this will be solved in the final release
<olbi> ok :-)
<knome> olbi, did you install the latest daily?
<olbi> yesterday or today?
<knome> well either
<olbi> I have from 14 april for now
<brainwash> 14-Apr-2014 21:54
<brainwash> only the 4 indicators which we want to ship are present on the iso
<knome> bluesabre, humph, bug 1213837 in *live* session, really?
<ubottu> bug 1213837 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Unable to change session or language after logout" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213837
<knome> i mean... who logs out of the live session?
<zequence> I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of the extra indicator things, which I only now realized may have been to do with ubuntu-control-center
<zequence> (in Ubuntu Studio)
<zequence> I have gnome power applet as well. Do you have that?
<knome> yes, they were related to unity-*
<knome> zequence, can't see the gnome power applet here
<zequence> knome: So, making that depend into a recommend solved it for you guys?
<zequence> knome: Did you have it before?
<knome> i don't have the definite answer to that, probably not
<knome> did you look at your germinate output?
<zequence> No. Just trying to get a quick answer. I'll figure it out
<slickymaster> morning guys
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<knome> zequence, sorry for not having one :)
<amigamagic> hey guys, in trusty there is no more a notifier icon for update notifications?
<amigamagic> I noticed that there is this bug still open and maybe it affects the 14.04 release too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/1246364
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Low,Confirmed]
<starrats> I swear the other day I got a software updater popped up on the upper left hand corner for me to do an update on Truty Tahr 14.04
<knome> amigamagic, "maybe"? please try to confirm it, don't expect others to
<bluesabre> wow guys
<bluesabre> yes, there is no update indicator
<bluesabre> it went away in 13.10
<amigamagic> knome, how can I check if I have update notifications?
<amigamagic> until now I have not seen them
<bluesabre> instead, the update window pops up when there are updates
<amigamagic> bluesabre, so there should be only a popup window? Can I check if it works?
<amigamagic> there is something like a simulated update so I could check if the windows pop-ups?
<bluesabre> sudo apt-get update
<bluesabre> from the terminal
<bluesabre> after a while, if there are updates available, the window will pop up
<amigamagic> ok thanks bluesabre, I will try it now
<bluesabre> you can also manually check for updates from Settings -> Software Updater
<starrats> if you do daily updates, like I do, then you wouldn't have to worry about the softweare updater, IMO
<amigamagic> bluesabre, until now I have no updates windows
<amigamagic> I've done a sudo apt-get update from some minutes
<bluesabre> ok, when did you last update your system?
<amigamagic> maybe 12 hours ago
<amigamagic> about 12 hours ago
<bluesabre> if you do sudo apt-get upgrade, are any updates listed?
<amigamagic> yes there are
<bluesabre> ok, there may be a minimum time.  It's worked consistently all throughout the development cycle
<amigamagic> maybe I should try to create a new account and check if they shows up there?
<amigamagic> I moved some things in the xfce panel
<amigamagic> like the panel was up, and I moved it down
<amigamagic> and I disabled the duplicated clock
<bluesabre> you might want to check on #ubuntu -- the software-updater is one of their applications
<bluesabre> I don't know the full details of it myself
<bluesabre> or on #xubuntu, where there are more support people
<amigamagic> ok, last thing: is the window a pop-up or is it a normal window?
<amigamagic> because I have one monitor with two pc attached, so I cannot always see that screen... If the window is displayed and then it disappear after 10 seconds, probabily I will not see this notification...
<amigamagic> is for this that it was useful the little notification in the xfce panel
<brainwash> please ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<brainwash> we did not change the behavior
<amigamagic> ok, I will do that, thanks!
<zequence> How big of a deal is light-locker-settings?
<brainwash> it's the graphical settings dialog for light-locker
<brainwash> so it makes configuring light-locker user friendly
<knome> zequence, very recommendable.
<zequence> Ah, we don't even have light-locker, which I originally though
<zequence> At this point, I'm happy if I can keep my hands off any changes
<knome> yeah, i think l-l-s is dependency for l-l
<zequence> anyone here done a lot of testing on EFI?
<zequence> Got my hands on a machine not long ago. Installation of Ubuntu Studio worked fine, but today, i tried reinstalling on a virtual machine with an existing EFI install, and the installer froze when trying to load partitioning
<zequence> I need to do more testing, and try other flavors to make sure, but at least one other person is having trouble installing Ubuntu Studio on a EFI machine (a real one - macbook)
<knome> zequence, you could ask #ubuntu-quality
<jhenke> zequence: I am using xubuntu in uefi based VMs without problems
<jhenke> but yes uefi can be "special" in some ways, especially boot loader and partion handling
<jhenke> do you have an EFI partion on the VMs hard drive?
<jhenke> bbl
<elfy> knome: when you did upgrade tests did you see ibus in the upgraded install?
<elfy> I've failed the 2 upgrade tests I've done
<mzr> so elfy, are you trying to kill the zombie, or cure him?
<elfy> mzr: other than pointing that the issue is there nothing else has been discussed yet - timezones and work ... 
<zequence> jhenke: The specific problem that arises is when trying to install onto an existing 14.04 installation
<zequence> jhenke: Have you tried that?
<jhenke> zequence yes, I removed the boot entry in uefi and ran the installer normally
<jhenke> here it worked
<jhenke> folks: the partion editor in the installer, does it mean real MB as in 10^6 or does it mean MiB as in 2^20?
<zequence> jhenke: Ok. Could be related to our kernel (linux-lowlatency)
<elfy> evening brainwash xnox 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<elfy> brainwash: I'm failing all the image upgrades - they still have ibus on them
<elfy> on the bright side - I've had usb's of all sorts in and out here without any issue
<brainwash> elfy: oh, ibus is really pesky
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> the (auto)mount improvement is great, now we can hope for less complains about it not working properly :)
<elfy> I'm guessing that the 2 who did cli upgrades didn't miss ibus - but as it was knome and texadactyl I doubt it
<elfy> so it is ONLY image upgrades for some reason
<brainwash> ibus is not present on the iso
<brainwash> ah, ofc
<brainwash> it that a problem?
<brainwash> I assume it did or did not work for people using 13.10
<brainwash> so they've already removed or configured it
<elfy> and 12.04 ... 
<brainwash> same with xscreensaver
<brainwash> it just stays
<elfy> yea - thanks - I was so head into these tests I wasn't thinking that way
<elfy> however
<elfy> anyone who's not configured ibus and left it there because it was doing nothing - will find it now does and will need to be dealt with
<elfy> so - release notes - prior to upgrading remove ibus or deal with it afterwards would be my take on that
<brainwash> yes, we need a note
<jhenke> congratulations again to everybody involved for the 14.04 release, I just installed it on an old netbook, which had WinXP before, really nice and it runs much smoother than ever before :)
<brainwash> elfy: we should redirect the potential uproar to the ibus dev :)
<brainwash> jhenke: great to hear
<brainwash> now we only need to get fix all the light-locker related issues
<jhenke> brainwash yes, but the subjective impact from my point of view is lower than the ibus and idicator problems we had earlier :)
<knome> elfy, hmph, at least not in an obtrusive way...
<elfy> just checking an image upgrade with it purged
<elfy> going to be missing from meeting tonight
<knome> bleh
<elfy> info [xubuntu-qa] Image testing 32bit - 10 tests
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Image testing 64bit - 9 test
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 32bit - 1 test
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] LTS Upgrade testing 32bit - 2 tests 
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 64bit - 3 tests
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] LTS Upgrade testing 64bit - 2 tests
<elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Ibus is still installing with image upgrades
<elfy> is what we have as of 30 minutes ago
<pleia2> thanks elfy 
<knome> "installing with image upgrades" ?
<elfy> there are 3 upgrades WITHOUT image as of when I checked 
<slickymaster> hey guys
<elfy> back in about 60 minutes
<slickymaster> knome, did you get to poke pleia2 about the makerting stuff that needs to be finished?
<slickymaster> *marketing
<pleia2> I'm working on the flyer today
<pleia2> wikipedia thing will be postponed, updated blueprint for new g+ admin (ochosi was added)
 * pleia2 updates blueprint so only flyer things remain
<Unit193> Yey for G+.
<knome> pleia2, meh for wikipedia
<pleia2> knome: well, over time it naturally evolved to be less bad :)
<slickymaster> besides bluesabre and his font size issue, did you have any other feedback on the tour page?
<knome> yeah, the history is still not at all complete
<pleia2> slickymaster: I was at a conference all last week so I've had to declare backlog bankruptcy, what about the tour page? :)
<knome> pleia2, load it.
<pleia2> pretty
<slickymaster> what about the content pleia2?
<knome> oi, meeting
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 15 19:03:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> (running freeform)
<knome> #done knome, slickymaster and lderan updated the tour page
<slickymaster> \o/ docs blueprint is officially closed
<lderan> until alan can put my recent fix live for meetingology, don't use % in votes ;_;
<knome> %? :D
<lderan> it replaces some text with the link to the meeting output for the vote headings
<knome> aha...
<knome> anything else?
<knome> elfy posted some QA info just a while ago, pick numbers from there
<slickymaster> unfortunately, and because I'm on vacation, I wasn't able to make any tests
<slickymaster> sorry elfy
 * slickymaster hides quickly fearing elfy and his poking stick
<knome> heh
<knome> #topic Other issues
<knome> anything else?
<slickymaster> volunteers call to help pleia2 with the flyer?
<knome> well i'll be here
<elfy> back
<knome> elfy, that's cheating, that was not 60 mins :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> not failing this latest upgrade - just noting that I had to remove ibus before upgrading or I would have :)
<pleia2> slickymaster: I think we're actually ok flyer-wise, I just need to comment on knome's latest comments
<knome> yep, and put in some new test
<knome> *text
<slickymaster> I'll be arounf after 23:00 and ready to try to help
<slickymaster> that's UTC
<knome> right, maybe we should close this meeting
<knome> when do we want the next one?
<elfy> May
<knome> cycle wrap-up, project future leadership, etc...
<elfy> next week perhaps - normal day 
<knome> yeah...
<knome> #info Next meeting: Thu, 17 April at 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 15 19:33:31 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-15-19.03.moin.txt
<slickymaster> ok, dinner time for me
<pleia2> enjoy
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<elfy> knome: so release notes - I'll add something to them re ibus
<knome> yep, thanks
<elfy> so - the only issue I'm thinking of atm is power and odd lightdm things
<elfy> bug 1298237
<ubottu> bug 1298237 in Ubuntu Kylin "Cannot login the system after upgraded from 13.10 to 14.04" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298237
<elfy> not only us - other people affected by lightdm issues
<knome> elfy, what about bug 1307929 ;))
<ubottu> bug 1307929 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker crashes on every unlock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307929
<elfy> that's light-locker not lightdm
<elfy> I'd love to be able to me too it - but it's not affecting me here
<knome> i'm sure it only affects a ver specific subset of setups
<elfy> yep - definitely not affected here - just did it twice 
<elfy> knome: not sure of the moinmoin markup needed to make the ibus comment work :p
<elfy> kind of wants to be a sub-bullet of the exisiting ibus comment
<knome> heh
<elfy> ta :)
<elfy> 2 upgrade tests to do then I can't do anymore without repeating myself - gives me tomorrow to do some live session testing \o/
<knome> nice
<elfy> knome: so was that it - an extra space before the * ?
<jhenke> good night folks
<elfy> good night jhenke 
<knome> elfy, yep...
<knome> " * item" for 1st leve
<knome> "  * item" for 2nd level
<elfy> right
<Unit193> Well crap, missed the meeting and now no scrollback of it. :/
<elfy> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-15-19.03.log.html
<knome> Unit193, very.. full of information, that meeting :P
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-16
<amigamagic> how can I download the sources for xfdesktop package?
<amigamagic> I would like to try to see if I'm able to understand something in the code (related to the bug I posted on launchpad)
<knome> sudo apt-get source xfdesktop4
<amigamagic> ok thanks :)
<bluesabre> except, don't use sudo
<bluesabre> otherwise you'll have root permissioned source files
<amigamagic> ok, it makes sense... thanks!
<jhenke> good morning
<elfy> good day jhenke 
<knome> i've prepared the release announcement and notes; both are at their final places. please do not edit the announcement without a permission from the team on this channel, even with typo fixes. feel free to do typo fixes to the notes, for all other changes, ask the team.
<amigamagic> knome, with xubuntu 14.04 I noticed that in a vmware player machine, light-locker often completely freezes the machine when it should lock the screen and I can't do anything else apart reset the vm. Being that on a real machine I didn't experienced such an issue so it's not critical, but do you know something about this?
<knome> no
<amigamagic> can I install an alternative login manager to compensate in the virtual machine?
<knome> yes
<amigamagic> can you suggest me a good one that doesn't require many many dependencies like gdm?
<knome> no
<amigamagic> ok
<elfy> knome: thanks - seen them both, replaced replacing with replaces to match the other one
<knome> elfy, thanks
<elfy> hi GridCube - if you want to know what needs it - then I'd like to see more love for upgrade testing
<elfy> but if not almost anything will help
<GridCube> elfy, if i get home early today i can try to do a 13.10 to 14.04 test, if you wan t i can try to upgrade this vm im using now too
<elfy> and anyone else who answers can be given that info :)
 * GridCube though i have a meeting a few decaminutes
<elfy> GridCube: upgrades I'm more wanting hardware if possible
<elfy> GridCube: we have till tomorrow morning :)
<GridCube> ok, elfy ill try and see if i can do it later tonight,
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> bbl
<amigamagic> for my bug searching I just checked in here: xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.c:#define SAVE_DELAY  7000
<amigamagic> why you should wait 7 seconds before updating the icons??
<amigamagic> I will try to change that delay value to 1000 and recompile the package
<amigamagic> It's strange, I changed that, recompiled the package, changed the /usr/bin/xfdesktop with my new compiled one and... After changing an icon position they will pass always 7 seconds to update the relative file in .config/xfce4/desktop
<ochosi> ahoj everyone
<ochosi> did i miss anything? :)
<amigamagic> oooh, now it works!
<amigamagic> the compiled version was placed not in /usr/bin but in /usr/local/bin... Why those two dirs for binary files?
<amigamagic> now when I move an icon its position is saved after 1 second, not anymore after 7 seconds... :)
<ochosi> depends on what prefix you set when compiling
<ochosi> by default stuff you compile by hand ends up in /usr/local
<ochosi> so that it doesn't mess with your system
<amigamagic> ochosi, ok, but before I replaced the binary file in /usr/bin and it didn't work
<amigamagic> now I deleted the default one from /usr/bin
<amigamagic> and when you run xfdesktop it will be taken from /usr/local/bin
<amigamagic> that is when the "make install" have placed it
<ochosi> you can use "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr" to get it installed in the right place
<ochosi> anyway, no need to install the desktop to run it
<amigamagic> maybe /usr/bin/local has priority in the path over /usr/bin ?
<ochosi> just kill it with 5 times "killall xfdesktop"
<ochosi> and then run it from the build-dir with "./src/xfdesktop"
<amigamagic> why 5 times?
<ochosi> because it gets respawned 5 times by the session
<amigamagic> ah ok, thanks for the info :)
<ochosi> np
<brainwash> no one complained about the 7 seconds delay so far
<brainwash> so it has not been changed since 2006
<brainwash> ochosi: hey there
<ochosi> brainwash: hey
<ochosi> what up?
<brainwash> fixing some bugs... nah, joking :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> preparing popcorn and comfy chair to enjoy release day instead maybe? :)
<amigamagic> hey guys I have to do a dist-upgrade tomorrow even if I have the daily 14.04 ?
<brainwash> dist-upgrade? or do you mean a release upgrade?
<brainwash> you are already running 14.04, so not further steps needed
<brainwash> no
<amigamagic> don't know, I mean I should do something after the official release is released?
<amigamagic> or I should not do nothing?
<brainwash> nothing
<amigamagic> ok, perfect, thanks :)
<ochosi> brainwash: what's the latest news on the lid-suspend problem?
<brainwash> ochosi: we need to make sure that the vt switch triggered by light-locker happens on resume I think
<brainwash> like it usually does when activated via systemd/dbus
<brainwash> or we need to tell xfpm or light-locker or someone to restore the display status
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, it's a bit tricky to decide where to actually fix that...
<ochosi> i guess doing the display switch later would be one option
<amigamagic> on a vmware machine light-locker sometimes will completely freeze the guest system (when it wanted to lock the screen). I don't have experienced this bug on a real machine. Maybe it's related to that suspend problem?
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> amigamagic: don't think it's related
<amigamagic> ok, for now I disabled it on the vmware machine... I use that virtual environment to test new distro and try to check bugs in some packages.
<brainwash> does it freeze if you switch to the greeter with "dm-tool switch-to-greeter"?
<amigamagic> I cannot check now because I'm at work... When I come back at home (I have the vmx in my personal notebook) I will check, thanks!
<brainwash> alright
<amigamagic> ah, I switched on xubuntu 14.04 on my work machine... It's very nice :)
<forestpiskie> wb ochosi 
<knome> bug 1302462
<ubottu> bug 1302462 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "network icon disappeared in xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302462
<knome> shouldn't that be fixed for new installations?
<elfy> it is on everything I have seen - both vm and hardware
<knome> the bug or the indicator? :P
<elfy> I have seen the future as well as the indicator
<knome> lol
<knome> is elfy slowly cracking up and becoming insane?
<elfy> is?
<elfy> :p
<knome> heh
<knome> we should close that bug
<knome> but what's the right way to fix the situation
<brainwash> maybe some update fixed it already
<elfy> well ... I we could always check it after release as "Doesn't anyone use Xubuntu with password-protected wifi passwords?"
<elfy> is what they are saying on -users
<elfy> no idea what a password protected wifi password is tbh
<knome> ;)
<lderan> ah users :)
 * knome senses an ironic tone on lderan's comment, or maybe it's just me...
<lderan> nah no irony
<elfy> I thought that was because lderan came from somewhere near the Black Country where ironyworks were common
<knome> hrh, installing last windows xp updates, then turning that virtual machine to wan-networkless state
<lderan> elfy, the irony is strong in these parts, it runs deep :P
<elfy> lol - twice :p
<elfy> that's the latest spin covered and I think it's being respun 
<knome> yep
<knome> of course
<knome> ;)
<elfy> knome: when are you about tomorrow?
<knome> should be most of the day
<knome> until i have had enough beer and not able to type
<elfy> I should be about more or less all day till 15:00 UTC ish then dribs and drabs for a couple of hours 
<knome> mhm
<knome> good
<knome> not much to *do* really, but nice to have people around
<elfy> yea 
<knome> heh
<knome> "Installing Windows XP End of Support Notification)"
<knome> -)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> great... is it going to bugger me on every boot now
<elfy> and every 2 hours once logged in 
<knome> yep...
<knome> i'll make sure i remove that "update" if it does that
<elfy> so would I :)
<brainwash> it's an ancient OS :/
<brainwash> 2001
<knome> works for my purposes
<brainwash> hard to believe that my xp installation from 2002 still runs
<brainwash> but we need to fix the black screen problem in xubuntu now
<brainwash> don't feel like telling people to not use light-locker
<knome> so... is there an idea who are affected by it?
<elfy> which black screen problem?
<brainwash> I'm not affected :)
<elfy> the power one or a different one?
<brainwash> power one
<knome> elfy, that
<elfy> don't tell then to not use light-locker - tell them not to suspend with lid close 
<knome> tell them to backup data and give us debug info if they are affected :P
<brainwash> elfy: can you bind "xset dpms force on" to some kb shortcut and trigger it once the screen turns black?
<elfy> knome: no idea how many are affected - not as many now as on Friday ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, and also were thinking about a common nominator
<elfy> brainwash: later I will look
<elfy> knome: a lid to close? :p
<brainwash> also do a test run after executing "sudo stop acpid"
<knome> elfy, probably not all laptops...
<elfy> brainwash: I doubt if I'll get time to do much fiddling about - not many people are testing what actually needs testing now 
 * elfy sends sharp pointed comment into the channel :p
<brainwash> there is a work around, running xrandr seems to restore the display status
<brainwash> stated by one reporter
<ali1234> ochosi: tumblerd hanging again :/
<ali1234> i think we need a watchdog for it
<ochosi> ali1234: meh :/
<ochosi> brainwash: i tried that once, didn't work for me. also the dpms state of the session seemed ok when i queried it
<ochosi> ali1234: any idea why it's hanging?
<ochosi> i really wonder, it used to be quite stable a while back
<brainwash> ochosi: so the backlight was completely off, right?
<ochosi> brainwash: nope, just blanked
<ali1234> ochosi: attempting to thumbnail corrupt files i assume
<brainwash> ochosi: ah! mmh
<brainwash> ochosi: did you try to kill light-locker?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, ofc, that didn't do anything
<ochosi> i'll hopefully have a bit of time to look into things again tomorrow
<ochosi> just returned a few hours ago, so still a bit out of the loop
<ochosi> ali1234: what kind of watchdog did you have in mind?
<ali1234> one that monitors it and kills it when it hangs
<ali1234> how does it generate the thumbnails?
<ochosi> yeah, but an extra service just for that?
<ochosi> or just let xfce4-session watch it?
<ali1234> i wasn't entirely serious
<ochosi> right :)
<ali1234> it should gracefully handle when whatever library it uses fails though
<knome> maybe we can do something in a PPA that watches it and saves meaningful data
<ochosi> any clue which library is mainly responsible?
<knome> or even pops up a window saying "tumblrd hanged up, send details on what you were doing and logs XYZ to url A"
<zequence> Could anyone explain to me how you fixed the ibus thing?
<zequence> Seems we still have it - since none of us have been looking closely enough on this issue. I haven't seen any weirdness myself, so i've missed it completely
<knome> upgrade or clean install?
<elfy> knome: clean install - I found the bug on their iso today 
<zequence> yep, not too worried about upgrades right now
<elfy> and I got completely confused on what we did in the end - and really didn't want to confuse zequence :)
<zequence> You dropped ibus from seeds. But, I haven't checked all changes in -default-settings. Doesn't seem like there could be any other changes? Unless you also added something else
<mzr> ibus anywhere near fixed yet?
<Unit193> Not on the ISO if that counts.
<mzr> better than the alternative I guess, is the next one due summer or fall?
<elfy> Unit193: it counts enough for me 
<knome> zequence, just dropping it should be enough. but it still affects upgrade systems, because ibus isn't purged from those automatically
<zequence> knome: Yep. We have another problem. A gnome type power indicator applet. Trying to figure out what it is called
<zequence> We have two power applets. one XFCE, and one Gnome (I assume) - didn't have this on the last build
<knome> zequence, do you have it on new systems?
<Unit193> indicator-power perhaps?
<zequence> knome: New systems? It's a fresh install of the latest ISO
<zequence> Unit193: Thanks. Will check
<knome> zequence, yeah, i mean fresh installs
<zequence> Ah, so xfce-power-manager has it's own applet. I don't see the point in using indicator-power in that case
<zequence> let me try
<brainwash> so why do you include indicator-power?
<zequence> i just copied what you have
<zequence> Your's is set to not show by default
<zequence> You have it in your seeds as well
<brainwash> we hide xfce4-power-manager's tray icon
<brainwash> why didn't you notice that earlier? :P
<brainwash> final release is tomorrow =S
<zequence> i didn't have both on the last build
<zequence> same seed
<zequence> you have both too, though
<zequence> removing indicator-power fixed it. It can't do much anyway
<zequence> just show power in the indicator tray, but you can't go into settings with it, as settings for it doesn't exist
<brainwash> only if you upgrade xubuntu and there is an existing xfpm user config
<zequence> brainwash: Check your seeds
<zequence> it's there
<brainwash> it should
<Unit193> zequence: Yeah, may as well drop it at this point.
<zequence> No reason to have both IMO
<brainwash> I mean we hide the xfpm tray icon by default for new installation / new user accounts
<brainwash> and indicator-power opens xfpm
<zequence> it doesn't open anything for me
<zequence> but, xfce power manager seems to work fine
<brainwash> oh, I did not test it, because -power is not visible on desktop pcs
<zequence> I did miss the ibus bug, which bugs me a lot
<brainwash> it's not a bug actually
<brainwash> not according to the ibus dev :)
<zequence> Could be a lightdm bug then..
<zequence> or, something that only some of us who use it have
<brainwash> no, ibus only supports a limit set of keyboard layouts and falls back to "us"
<zequence> must be very limited then..
<brainwash> usually gnome-settings-daemon takes care of this
<brainwash> which one is missing?
<zequence> swedish
<zequence> But, elfy had all but US missing
<brainwash> simple "gb" is missing
<brainwash> so yeah, dropping it seems to be the only solution right now
<brainwash> no time for custom patches or some ibus integration into Xfce
<ochosi> zequence: problem is that indicator-power only got patched for xubuntu
<ochosi> it checks the session name and then decides what dialg to open
<brainwash> what about xfce?
<ochosi> support for ubuntustudio would be trviial to add though
<ochosi> gah, my internet is fading
<ochosi> bbiab
<zequence> ochosi: Ok. well, I feel pretty happy about xfce-power-manager as is. What's the upside with indicator-power?
<brainwash> it's an indicator :)
<elfy> zequence: I think that in future - at least while I'm QA lead for us - I will try to keep you at least informed of things affecting us that might affect you too 
<zequence> elfy: The fault is my own, not checking bug reports well enough
<zequence> Lesson learned
<elfy> even so - I'll still do it :)
<zequence> Thanks elfy. Much appreciated
<knome> elfy, does that mean you are considering to continue as the QA lead further than tomorrow? ;)
<elfy> knome: that is entirely in the lap of the gods 
<knome> heh
<elfy> and the gods will be checking to see how many people in -team manage to get on the tracker ;)
<knome> hr hrr
<knome> we'll i've been making appearances lately!
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> I have too, though knome removed all mine. :D
<ochosi> zequence: main advantage is that you get only one indicator for multiple devices and that it's more consistent with the other indicators (right-click vs. left-click menus)
<elfy> don't  think I didn't notice knome :D
<zequence> ochosi: Ok. Something to keep in mind for the next release then :)
<knome> ochosi, hey :)
<ochosi> zequence: this is what you'll want to modify slightly: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-power/trunk.14.04/revision/222
<ochosi> if you need help with a merge-request, let me know
<ochosi> imo it'd be useful no matter whether you ship indicator-power by default or not
<ochosi> cause it means it'll work as expected in studio for those who want to use it
<ochosi> knome: hey there :)
<ochosi> came back right on time for the release ;)
<knome> yep!
<Unit193> ochosi: Can't you expand the find in path to fall back to xfpm?
<elfy> hi ochosi - welcome back :)
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> Unit193: what where?
<knome> elfy, we should probably mention the workaround for the black screen bug in the announcements/notes
<elfy> on it
<knome> cheers
<elfy> DON'T SUSPEND BY CLOSING THE LID !!!
<knome> lol
<knome> and,
<elfy> will that do?
<knome> "if you do..."
<zequence> ochosi: Thanks. I'm dropping the indicator for this release, and not sure how we will do for the next one. We're probably going to add a plugin in ubiquity letting users install which ever DE they want, and if we have our own - it might turn out to be hardcore minimalistic.
<ochosi> zequence: sure, sounds like a good choice
<ochosi> Unit193: in case you meant indicator-power to fall back to xfpm, i guess ubuntu-desktop folks wouldn't be too happy about that
<Unit193> ochosi: That's silly of them, it already falls back from unity-c-c to gnome-c-c, may as well add in xfpm too IMNSHO.
<Unit193> It'd be using it as a last resort, not first choice.
<ochosi> yeah, i just implemented xfpm-settings though the way -sound supports pavucontrol
<elfy> minds gone blank - how do I restart lightdm ? lightdm restart ?
<knome> sudo service lightdm restart
<elfy> thanks - long day :)
<elfy> knome: bit of a long workround when written ... 
<knome> elfy, where is it?
<elfy> on mousepad atm :p
<knome> :P
<knome> elfy, you could drop it to http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Final for collaborative editing
<knome> (even if that is mostly a placeholder now)
<elfy> knome: {{{ is pointless - this one is for blog
<elfy> release notes says 'see release announcement for ..."
<elfy> I've done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
<knome> i can't see that?
<elfy> though I guess we *could* have it in both places ... it is a bit of a big issue
<elfy> known issues - XFCE Power Manager ... 
<knome> oh
<pleia2> knome: ok, I answered your questions in the doc
<knome> elfy, i think it should be the other way around..
<elfy> ok
<knome> elfy, "see notes for details"
<elfy> ack
<elfy> knome: check pad please
<elfy> done announcement
 * knome looks
<knome> taking over
<knome> saved another draft
<knome> leaving edit page
<elfy> better - thanks 
<pleia2> we need a picture, like our tahr
<pleia2> and a screenshot!
<knome> for what?
<pleia2> the blog post
<knome> aha
<pleia2> I am previewing it
<knome> elfy, really editing something on the wiki?
<elfy> I was yes 
<knome> ok
<elfy> but now you've cut the pad lol
<knome> yep ;)
<knome> i have it on my clipboard
<elfy> edit cancelled 
<elfy> but I was about to fiddle on pad when you cut it 
<knome> done
<knome> heh, okay
<knome> edited and saved wiki now, feel free to fiddle there
<knome> i note we're being very verbose :)
<elfy> move xrandr to the beginning
<knome> but i think that's okay
<knome> yeah, i was thinking about that...
<elfy> knome: well there is that - but then sometimes people need to be led to the water 
<knome> i think we could point to the notes with the ibus instructions as well
<knome> editing www
<elfy> I am
<knome> no i am :P
<elfy> sorry - I was on wiki :)
<knome> yep
<knome> saved another revision of the announcement, and have left the edit page
<elfy> I'm out of the wiki 
<knome> pleia2, tahr? :)
<knome> ochosi, creative ideas on how to integrate the tahr into the release announcement?
<pleia2> tahr!
<elfy> www pointer looks ok 
<ochosi> knome: you mean the one i drew for the slideshow?
<knome> ochosi, that
<pleia2> yeah, ochosi's tahr
<knome> ochosi, you know there is a slight problem with the right-bottom corner...
<ochosi> aha?
<knome> well, it's not pretty if you just land it on the page
<knome> though we could land it with the blue bg
<knome> that's a good idea.
 * knome gets to it
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> cool
<knome> btw, i broke image aligning in the last css update for our pleasure
 * knome bows
<ochosi> congrats :)
<knome> ok, the tahr is in right-aligned
<pleia2> pretty
<knome> ochosi, too tall?
<elfy> I'd say resize it so Highlights, changes was across the page
<knome> elfy, heh, resize your browser window either way
<elfy> you misunderstand me 
<knome> meanwhile, i'll upload a smaller version
<knome> i don't
<knome> i reproduced your issue
<elfy> or you don't and are being knomey
<elfy> :)
<knome> but the workaround is to make the window narrower or wider
<elfy> that makes no difference here 
<ochosi> knome: why not use the bg of the 14.04 wallpaper?
<ochosi> knome: i mean for the tahr
<knome> ochosi, meh :)
<knome> ochosi, i can do that, but don't want the lines in
<knome> so does it really make a difference?
<ochosi> hm, the grey bar below the tahr is a bit boring btw
<ochosi> could be flashier
<ochosi> color-wise i mean
<knome> well it's the generic image caption style
<knome> not much i can do to change it for this post only
<knome> except recreating the html
<ochosi> ah ok
<knome> but that's a bit meh
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> i think the size is good now
<knome> but it still overlaps a bit with the heading
<knome> we should make the text before that longer
<ochosi> i'd just use the colors of the wall, without the lines
<knome> ;)
<knome> ok, i'll do that in a sec...
 * elfy really doesn't like that 
<knome> elfy, like what?
<slickymaster> hey can someone provide me the link you're working on?
<knome> slickymaster, log in at http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/
<elfy> knome: the heading overlapping
<knome> slickymaster, then go to http://xubuntu.org/?p=2394&preview=true
<knome> elfy, working on it
<slickymaster> I'm there
<pleia2> ochosi: do you have the svg of your tahr?
<knome> pleia2, i do too
<pleia2> can someone send to me?
<knome> pleia2, i'm just working on the recolor
<knome> i can
<pleia2> ty
<knome> should have mail
<ochosi> pleia2: planning to use it somewhere?
<pleia2> ochosi: writing a blog post about where to find some trusty artwork
<pleia2> knome: yep, thanks
<pleia2> hmm, maybe we can put this up on static?
<knome> yep.. which reminds me, i should make a nicer package of the brand stuff
<knome> ochosi, is the tahr too small now?
<slickymaster> it's a bit small knome 
<ochosi> knome: colors +1
<ochosi> knome: size, not sure, looks a bit restrained
<ochosi> but i guess it's okay
<elfy> colors are good - but I'll not say I don't like the position again 
<elfy> ochosi: personally I think if it's much bigger it takes over from what people are reading
<pleia2> knome: ok for me to just drop the png and svg here? http://static.xubuntu.org/14.04/
<pleia2> or any other suggestions?
<knome> i guess that's ok at least for now
 * slickymaster thinks the former size would be preferable
<knome> we can think if we want a package with all the artwork, like the wallpaper...
<elfy> pleia2: other suggestion - wait till Friday when no-one is running the show :p
<pleia2> elfy: wanted to get my post up for release tomorrow so folks can use the images
 * elfy just notice the tags at the bottom of the page \o/
<elfy> pleia2: and I was just jesting :)
<pleia2> :)
 * elfy is off - night all - cya tomorrow at some point 
<[1]amigamagic> I would like to check, in the command line console, if a certain function is called when I change the resolution
<[1]amigamagic> maybe I should write something like: fprintf(stderr, "hello"), instead of printf("hello") ?
<amigamagic> YES! With fprintf(stderr, "abc function has been called"); it works!!!
<amigamagic> Now I can see what function of the xfdesktop package is called when I change the resolution of the desktop
<knome> can somebody close bug 1302462 with appropriate comments how to resolve the situation on systems where that happened?
<ubottu> bug 1302462 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "network icon disappeared in xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302462
<amigamagic> hey guys, I solved myself the 2 bugs I reported here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Low,Confirmed]
<amigamagic> what should I do now? I should create a patch?
<slickymaster> yes amigamagic create the patch, upload it to the bug report as proposed fix
<Logan_> and if you're really quick, I might be able to sponsor it before tomorrow ;)
<amigamagic> exactly how I should create this patch? It's the first time I do something like that... :)
<amigamagic> I modded 3 files in the original xfdesktop package
<Logan_> http://jungels.net/articles/diff-patch-ten-minutes.html
<amigamagic> ok, I will read it
<knome> Logan_, not release-critical material, hold your horses
<Logan_> yeah, I guess it can wait for an SRU :P
<Logan_> knome: you know the release-critical thing only applies to seeded packages, right?
<knome> Logan_, xfdesktop is seeded.
<Logan_> erm, okay, that's embarrassing
<Logan_> moving on
<knome> ;)
<Logan_> I've been cramming for an exam all day
<Logan_> clearly my mind isn't in the right place
<amigamagic> I should add a comment in the modded rows to make clear that those rows were modded for the patch fix?
<knome> not in the code at least
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-17
<knome> if you created the patch correctly, it will be obvious from that patch file
<knome> because it is used to see differences
<amigamagic> ok
<amigamagic> I'm using "diff -u ~/Desktop/xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.h xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.h > xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.h.patch" but I don't like the generated output in the patch file
<amigamagic> because for the first line of the patch I have the full pathname where I put the original source file
<amigamagic> I placed on the desktop the original unmodded files...
<amigamagic> so I go in the src dir of the modded files and do the above diff command
<amigamagic> but in the generated patch file there will be the full pathname of the original file I placed on my desktop... :(
<amigamagic> something like: "--- /home/user/Desktop/xfdesktop-file-icon-manager.h	2014-02-11 09:35:31.000000000 +0100"
<amigamagic> I don't think there should be something like that in the patch file, right?
<knome> i think it's irrelevant
<Noskcaj> amigamagic, use dpkg-source --commit to make the patch
<amigamagic> now I have the 3 patch files generated by diff
<amigamagic> now?
<amigamagic> Noskcaj, that is another way to do the same thing?
<Noskcaj> It is the "official" way to patch a patch
<Noskcaj> And in the proper format
<Noskcaj> You use apt-get source, do your changes, the use it
<amigamagic> so I didn't have to generate the diff files?
<Noskcaj> it generates the diff for you
<amigamagic> ok, let's try...
<amigamagic> mmmh... I have this error with dpkg-source --comit:
<amigamagic> dpkg-source: error: tail of src/debian/changelog gave error exit status 1
<Noskcaj> strange
<Noskcaj> Is that the whole error?
<amigamagic> mmmh.... I used that command in the src dir of the package
<amigamagic> yes, that was the whole error
<amigamagic> I will try to redownload the sources
<amigamagic> reapply the mods
<amigamagic> and doing a dpkg-source --commit without compiling the sources
<amigamagic> ok, with a clean source package it appears to work...
<amigamagic> what name I should give to the patch?
<amigamagic> bug1307251_patchfix ?
<bluesabre> ah, so there is an easier way to do it after all
<bluesabre> I've been using quilt directly
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, using guilt is easier ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<amigamagic> in the example description of the patch proposed by the dpkg-source tool there is the name of the author of the patch and its email... I should insert them?
<Noskcaj> amigamagic, Sure. I'll try and get a good name when i package it. Thanks for the fix
<knome> amigamagic, Noskcaj: don't forget testing.
<knome> i'm sure there was a good reason to set the timeout to 7 seconds
<Noskcaj> knome, of course, and we can't upload the fix till unicorn development starts
<knome> maybe it was a performance consideration, or something else (maybe not catching everything if <7 seconds?)
<knome> the best thing to do now would be to contact the original author
<amigamagic> I don't know why it was set to 7 seconds that delay. There is another part of the code (that I have not modded) in which there is another delay of 7 seconds and I don't understand why... I have to say that the code is not so easy to read. It has strange name conventions.
<Noskcaj> amigamagic, Maybe someone in #xfce-dev knows
<knome> amigamagic, that's why you shouuld ask.
<amigamagic> then I will try to ask there
<knome> if you knew, you probably could consider if it is sane to keep it or not
<amigamagic> yes
<amigamagic> for now I'm trying myself and so far it's all ok
<Unit193> knome: Some of the delay was so xfconf could start up and not get the weird text and such, if I remember correctly.
<knome> Unit193, mmmh, then test on that
<knome> anyway, i'm off for now
<Unit193> Good nighty, knomey.
<knome> have boring stuff to do tomorrow before the release
<amigamagic> Unit193, what harm could do write the .rc icon file after 1 second you change the icon positions, instead of 7 seconds?
<Unit193> amigamagic: I can't parse what you're trying to say, but the problem was that not enough time was given, or something along those lines (more correctly, starting in the wrong order, which you don't have as much control over.)
<amigamagic> I have  the generated patch file
<amigamagic> who dares to try it? :D
<amigamagic> where I should upload it?
<amigamagic> Unit193, actually xfdesktop saves/updates a file with .rc extension in "~/.config/xfce4/desktop" whenever you alter some icon on the desktop
<amigamagic> and there is a different file for each resolution you use
<amigamagic> when you change some icon on your desktop that file is updated after a delay of 7 seconds. I think it's too much time, because if I move an icon and logout, the new position will not be saved.
<amigamagic> why launchpad complains that my patch file doesn't seem a patch??
<amigamagic> it's because it has a description above? "dpkg-source --commit" generated a description on top of the diff inside the file
<amigamagic> maybe launchpad expects only a diff file without introductive text on top?
<amigamagic> I uploaded the patch on launchpad
<amigamagic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Low,Confirmed]
<amigamagic> in the comment n.4 there is my patch fix
<elfy> morning peeps
<jhenke> good morning folks
<jhenke> big release day, today? some party later on? ;)
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10804 would be what I'm seeing.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10804 in General "Overlay video sometimes prevents screen area from updating after video application is closed" [Normal,New]
<knome> heyy elfy
<elfy> hi knome 
<elfy> the volman update just arrived here :)
<knome> yay
 * elfy is going to mark packages ready shortly
<knome> good good
<elfy> and I'd mark images ready too :)
<knome> elfy, oh btw
<knome> elfy, when we're testing, and if you want to quickly know if something landed properly
<knome> use the main archive mirrors
<knome> eg. not fi.archive... but archive.
<knome> because i got the thunar-volman update ages ago
<elfy> I had it pinned to brainwashe's ppa 
<Unit193> Saaame, but with us iirc.
<knome> awwh :)
 * elfy wasn't going back to it not working for me :D
<elfy> thought so - main server
<knome> yep
<knome> i always get fi. selected
<knome> :<
<elfy> yea ... though as far as I know - main and GB are in the same place 
<knome> probably
<elfy> packages marked \o/
<knome> woohoo
<elfy> I doublechecked all the image tests with no results this morning 
<knome> lol
<elfy> not running vbox anymore today :)
<knome> no what results?
<knome> ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
 * elfy is already on the train drinking beer - unfortunately it's only inmy head atm
<knome> hehe
 * knome is thinking about getting a bottle of whiskey
<elfy> morning brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<brainwash> elfy: should we remove all the dupes from bug 1259339?
<ubottu> bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "Xfce4 Power Manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339
<brainwash> it is not a screen power issues, just some blanking problem
<brainwash> that's what we got in 14.04
<knome> if the dupes aren't dupes...
<elfy> I guess we could check if they closed the lid to suspend first
<brainwash> the setups are different
<elfy> if they all have the same failing power set up then afaik they are all the same bug
<brainwash> not sure, but it's confusing
<brainwash> for people affected on 14.04
<brainwash> with light-locker
<brainwash> please re-read the bug description
<brainwash> "Power manager is configured to do nothing when the lid closes."
<brainwash> so I suggest reverting to bug 1303736 as main report
<ubottu> bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "duplicate for #1303736 Xfce4 Power Manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339
<brainwash> elfy: yes/no?
<elfy> sorry - was afk
<elfy> I'd say if they ARE different then un-dupe them 
<brainwash> alright
<elfy> but I'm not convinced that they are different :)
<amigamagic> hi, someone tried my patch?
<elfy> I am convinced that people aren't very good when writing bugs though :p
<elfy> amigamagic: not me - know nothing about it 
<brainwash> which patch?
<amigamagic> I'm trying to talk with xfce devs to check if my mods are alright
<amigamagic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251
<amigamagic> at the bottom of the page I posted a patchfix
<brainwash> I see
<brainwash> yeah, you need to talk to the upstream guys, mainly eric_the_idiot 
<brainwash> once it has been accepted upstream, it will find its way into xubuntu one day
<amigamagic> ok... brainwash yesterday you said something to me to try for light-lock problem on my virtual machine?
<amigamagic> I don't have that log anymore because I'm on another machine...
<brainwash> yes, killall instances of light-locker and use "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" to switch to the greeter :)
<amigamagic> mmmh... after the command the virtual machine has feezed... :D
<brainwash> so it's not related to light-locker
<brainwash> but general vt switching
<amigamagic> what shoul that command do ?
<brainwash> and/or lightdm-gtk-greeter
<brainwash> it spawns the greeter on vt8
<brainwash> but without locking the session on vt7
<brainwash> so.. you should check the lightdm log files located in /var/log/lightdm/
<amigamagic> ok, I will check them
<amigamagic> at least now know how to reproduce the problem
<amigamagic> thanks!
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> knome: please set the importance to high for bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Black screen after login from suspend in Xubuntu 14.04" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<starrats> good morning everyone
<jhenke> good day starrats
<knome> brainwash, any specific reason to bump the importance?
<brainwash> black screens are never fun
<knome> well no, but it used to be medium
<brainwash> so medium is fine?
<brainwash> it prevents the user from using the desktop
<knome> i'm just asking if there is a specific reason
<knome> learn to argument ;)
<knome> i know there is a reason
<brainwash> it just looks better
<knome> but i'm not a loose gateguard :P
<knome> lol
<knome> it looks better that we have a high importance bug unfixed than medium one?
<brainwash> that's the truth :P
<knome> ok, why is it the truth
<knome> because it...
<brainwash> ..is a high importance bug?
<knome> 1) is the favorite importance of brainwash
<knome> 2) brainwash likes to ask knome to do things
<knome> 3) potentially affects all laptop users
<knome> pick one?
<brainwash> mmh, can I pick all maybe?
<starrats> I pick 3
<brainwash> 1,2,3
<brainwash> and we should assign ochosi to fix it, job done :)
<knome> brainwash, no, it's a checkbox
<knome> err.
<knome> radiobox.
 * knome voluntells brainwash to look at it
<starrats> Black screen on 14.04 to a new user of 14.04 and coming from windows would think they hit the BSOD of windows, lol, :)
<matt_symes> I have a question peeps. How different (if at all) will the final release of trusty-amd64 be to the final zsynced image uploaded to cdimage.ubuntu.com on release day ? I have been zsycing the daily image. 
<knome> matt_symes, slightly, but it's likely that the changes are something high/critical on the ubuntu core
<knome> matt_symes, you can zsync the final iso as well, as long as you specify what is the "original" iso
<matt_symes> ahh. thanks knome. I'll zsync the final then.
<knome> np
<knome> zsync --help tells you more
<matt_symes> cheers and enjoy the weekend :)
<knome> you too
<knome> only some errands to run, then can start celebrating the release
<bluesabre> !isitout
<ubottu> No bluesabre, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> silly bluesabre 
<elfy> :p
<bluesabre> spamming ubottu
<elfy> :)
<matt_symes> ty knome
<matt_symes> hey elfy 
<bluesabre> with the release today, I can relax
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, join #ubuntu-release-party, say "!isitout" too many times and get kicked by knome ;)
<bluesabre> and then return to bug fixes tomorrow
<ochosi> sergio-br2: hey
<knome> yep...
<elfy> hi matt_symes :)
<jhenke> being curious, how long does it usually takes for the next release to be "open"? (i.e. archive created and synced from debian, image creation started)
<bluesabre> usually just a few days
<bluesabre> I think a week maybe actually
<bluesabre> knome would know better though :)
<knome> i think it's about a week
<elfy> I think that last time it was less than a week
<elfy> I know I was breaking it really really quickly :p
<jhenke> elfy: we all need something fun to do :P
<jhenke> thanks
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<sergio-br2> fine?
<ochosi> yup, just returned yesterday
<ochosi> i just wanted to ask how it's going with the social icons and stuff
<ochosi> s/social/social and web/
<ochosi> also saw that some 64px mimes appeared upstream
<ochosi> did you file merge-requests or did they pick the icons themselves?
<sergio-br2> no, they pick themselves
<sergio-br2> and I had integrate these things to my branch
<zequence> knome: You retiring?
<knome> zequence, yep, stepping down from the project lead chair
<zequence> knome: Who's stepping up?
<knome> i don't know, we will have to discuss the future generally
<knome> will be doing that on the next weeks meeting, welcome
<zequence> Lucky you.. (or to quote a character from Life of Brian: Youee lycky baastard!)
<zequence> knome: Still going to contribute actively?
<elfy> zequence: pink fluffyness contributions I think 
<knome> more or less
<knome> yep, those ^
<zequence> I had planned to quit now, but that would be a bad idea, I think. Also, I feel a lot more motivated recently, so I'm aiming for another two years, or until we get enough contibutors that we can have some for of a vote on the subject
<knome> i think after the LTS release it's always good to see where you are at with the team, even if the outcome was "let's continue business as usual"
<elfy> knome: you happy to mark as ready?
<knome> you are more qualified to assess that, but from my point of view, yes
<knome> we haven't hit any more nasty bugs
<knome> and the ones we have... we have
<elfy> I'm happy to do so 
<knome> yep, let's do so
<elfy> bluesabre is the other release team member :)
<bluesabre> yes, and I think its good
<bluesabre> and I won't be around to do it later :)
<elfy> awesome - ok - I shall do so now then 
<elfy> done that 
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> !isitout
<ubottu> No bluesabre, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> thanks everyone for putting up with my whining :)
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> thanks elfy
<knome> much appreciated
<bluesabre> have fun everybody!
<elfy> cya bluesabre - I'm away later till mondayish
<knome> you too
<amigamagic> bye bluesabre
<elfy> hi cub 
<cub> hiya
<cub> all set for release? :)
<elfy> we're marked as ready :)
<cub> I haven't had time to do any testing lately, it's sad.
<elfy> knome: the QA blog post is now finished, but it can wait till the screen locker one has been published - that's more important imo
<ochosi> !isitout
<ubottu> No ochosi, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<elfy> lol
<jhenke> it seems most people are thinking it will be released 13:04 (14:04 London time)
<jhenke> anyway I would like to take the opporunity to thank everybody involved in Xubuntu for the time and patience spent to make this new release possible
<jhenke> I think devs are too often ignored, so I need to point out: Well done all of you
<ochosi> !team ^
<ochosi> gah, ubottu-fail :)
<ochosi> thanks though, jhenke 
<jhenke> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<jhenke> ah!
<knome> thanks jhenke, and enjoy
<jhenke> knome: thanks I do, it already brought an old WinXP netbook back to life :)
<jhenke> bbl folks, looks like the release will delay a bit today
<amigamagic> maybe for the bad weather?
<knome> edited the announcement to have the right download links.
<knome> who's around?
<pleia2> o/
<knome> o hai pleia2 
<knome> i just took the screenshots
<knome> and i have the new download page in mousepad
<knome> also, just took the westvleteren 12 -bottle out of the fridge
<pleia2> :)
<knome> i updated the press pages
<knome> what else?
<knome> (i did look a the processes page, was helpful)
<RFleming> can I be of any assistance?
<knome> i don't think so
<knome> at this point, everything is pretty much set in stone and prepared
<knome> unless pleia2 comes up with new tasks
<pleia2> oh, I should publish the new docs
<knome> yep
<amigamagic> for the next release, you could add a deja-dup default integration with thunar as for ubuntu/nautilus...
<amigamagic> it's quite easy with thunar custom actions.... I just tried and it works nicely!
<pleia2> I needed gnome-doc-utils for the make to not error our (this is a new system, so I had to install all dependencies, discovered new on!)
<pleia2> one
<knome> pleia2, mmh
<pleia2> hm, build didn't give me an includes directory
<knome> hm?
<pleia2> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/
<pleia2> no bueno
<knome> ahahh :(
<knome> oh come on
<knome> the docs frontpage in 14.40 does not have an image
<knome> :D
<knome> thanks for reminding me to check
<pleia2> hm?
<knome> yeah
<knome> open docs in 14.04
<pleia2> I do not haz
<knome> no xubuntu logo on the front page
<knome> relly?
<pleia2> I just pulled + built this from lp:xubuntu-docs
<knome> oh bah
<knome> i can't type today
<pleia2> wrong place?
<knome> i don't know
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> cd xubuntu-docs/
<pleia2> make
<pleia2> upload contents of build/desktop-guide
<knome> in my desktop, which is an upgrade
<knome> and in the vbox machine, which is a clean install
<knome> when i open "help"
<knome> there is no xubuntu logo on the startpage
<knome> the logo is in there for the docs, but not the startpage
<pleia2> hm
<knome> not much we can do about it now
<knome> can fix it later
<knome> but for your problem...
<knome> the structure was changed a bit for 14.04
<pleia2> ok
<knome> you need libs/ at http://docs.xubuntu.org/libs/
<pleia2> okie
<slickymaster> knome, can you please confirm something for me?
<knome> slickymaster, probably
<knome> :)
<knome> depends on the question...
<slickymaster> better on -off
<pleia2> knome: so if it lives in top level /libs, it will be hard to keep up with between releases if anything changes
<knome> mmh.
<pleia2> which I think is why we had the includes/ directory inside
<knome> well no
<pleia2> oh ok :)
<knome> this structure is needed for the languages to work properly
<knome> or, tbe, not needing each their own includes
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> well, as long as nothing is release-specific I guess it's ok to share /libs
<knome> shouldn't be there
<knome> and all releases after 14.04 at least should be fine with those libs
<pleia2> ok
<knome> if not, let's rethink
<knome> if we want to dramatically change something, maybe we could use libs-14.04 or sth
<pleia2> docs-startpage needs 13.10 still
<pleia2> 3 more months :)
<knome> yep
<pleia2> just has ltses now
<knome> huh?
<pleia2> Documentation for currently supported releases
<pleia2> Xubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr), the current LTS version, released in April 2014
<pleia2> Xubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin), a previous LTS version, released in April 2012
<pleia2> Get more Help & Support
<pleia2> I just pulled it down from https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage
<knome> awwh
<knome> then i accidentally dropped too much
<knome> let me fix that for you.
<pleia2> ty <3
<knome> hmm
<knome> 1310 never was on the branch?
<pleia2> heh, apparently not
<knome> now it is, pushed rev 6
<pleia2> I think I forgot it existed and updated manually :)
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> bad pleia2!
<pleia2> inorite
<knome> :| lolcats
<pleia2> ok, it's done
<pleia2> knome: can we be done with the flyer now? (sorry, is it drinking time?)
<knome> can
 * pleia2 noms breakfast yogurt
<knome> lol
<knome> let me just get another beer
<knome> i'll be back shortly
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> oki
<knome> so
<knome> the only thing left is the frontpage
<knome> which is not really "good"
<pleia2> running off to dr appt, will help out with things as needed when I return
<knome> aha
<knome> i thought we'd do the flyer
<knome> :)
<elfy> knome: does brainwash know what the volman patch did yet?
<RFleming> elfy, oh god... it's terrible.
<knome> hm?
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> is it broken now or what is the matter?
<elfy> nope - works fine :p
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> brainwash: we've mostly (apart from the marketing team - who've just woken up recently) been marking time :)
<elfy> with a bit of daftness thrown in
<RFleming> elfy, bit?
<elfy> I'm English
<RFleming> aye
<RFleming> I'm Canadian
<RFleming> we share royalty
<RFleming> but I think the daftness has been more than a 'bit'
<knome> mm
<knome> movement, movement! :)
<elfy> :)
 * knome pokes pleia2 
<brainwash> elfy: are you in the mood to test xfpm from my ppa?
<slickymaster> I seriously doubt it brainwash 
<brainwash> :P
<elfy> slickymaster is correct ;) 
<elfy> my weekend has gone pear shaped 
<elfy> brainwash: I'm now about a bit tomorrow morning ... 
<pleia2> aah
<knome> pleia2, feeling better?
<elfy> pleia2: wb :)
<pleia2> no, today is too much :)
<elfy> bed then 
<knome> pleia2, awwh
<pleia2> I actually feel ok, just have a lot to do
<pleia2> we're out
<pleia2> knome: publish time? :)
<pleia2> I can social mediaz it
<knome> i don't know
<knome> no ack on -rleease
<knome> -release too
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-April/000182.html
<knome> i noticed that
<knome> i guess we an publish
<knome> meh, c
<starrats> I know that Ubuntu 14.04LTS has been released, at least in Europe, from a source.
<holstein> starrats: ?
<holstein> !isitout
<ubottu> No holstein, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<holstein> starrats: there will be an announcment.. 
<holstein> its quite soon
<starrats> sorry that was meant for another channel, lol must have it the 'bounce button', lol my bad holstein
<knome> pleia2, announcement is out
<knome> will tweet
<pleia2> k, gplussign
<holstein> woot!
<starrats> So is Trusty out of the box ?
<mzr> !isitout
<ubottu> No mzr, it's not out yet. It's due out some time on the 17th :)
<elfy> yep
<mzr> I don't like ubot
<elfy> 14.10 next then :p
<starrats> awesome, WOOHOO!!!
<mzr> *claps*....and now...back to work
<starrats> ah more work elfy
 * elfy wanders off muttering 
<mzr> I assume somebody with the ability to change it knows about the 13.04 typo?
<ochosi> mzr: what typo where?
<mzr> it says "the new release 13.04, codenamed trusy...is available here:...."
<mzr> ochosi: http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ 
<mzr> xD
<mzr> nvm
<ochosi> not anymore obviously :)
<mzr> yeah tis the laughing
 * elfy fixed that :p
<ElderDryas> ooo...14.04 torrents works :)
<pleia2> knome: the site looks beautiful, well done :)
<knome> thanks
 * knome bows
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<knome> congrats, and thanks, everybody in the team!
<slickymaster> we're having a meeting in about 1 hour, aren't we?
<pleia2> no, we had our meeting on tuesday
<pleia2> today is only for parties
<knome> yes!
<pleia2> no moar meeting!
<slickymaster> so I can start thinking in moving myself and my bear to the kitchen an start preping dinner
<elfy> yep 
<starrats> when will the mirrors be up and running?
<knome> starrats, slowly.
<starrats> ah okay
<knome> pleia2, what about mailing list?
<knome> should we announce?
<pleia2> oh yeah
<pleia2> we should
<knome> who does?
<pleia2> care to etherpad, or just want to send something real quick?
<knome> we can pad
<pleia2> k
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Mail
<pleia2> ty
<pleia2> also, we should do an open week session about getting involved with xubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/trusty/Timetable
<knome> meh
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> this etherpad is huge
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> bug 1270894
<ubottu> bug 1270894 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "Sorting by date or name not working properly in thumbnail bar" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270894
<ElderDryas> off to try the new ISO
<brainwash> knome: 1259339 -> 1303736
<knome> brainwash, well it's already on the release announcement - too late
<brainwash> ok, so lets mark it as dupe
<knome> pleia2, i'm fine with that
<knome> who wants to send?
<pleia2> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/release/
<pleia2> where are our images?
<knome> worked on by canonical
<pleia2> oh, trusty
<knome> there was some hassle with all flavors
<pleia2> bleh
<Unit193> Torrents are there, and I'm seeding.
<brainwash> knome: looks like someone has to finish the ristretto patch :)
<knome> brainwash, yes.
<brainwash> upstream dev seems to be inactive :/
<knome> meh, now trusty is not working either
<elfy> Unit193: same 
<brainwash> iso size is smaller now
<brainwash> nice
<slickymaster> phillw was complaigning in -quality about that hassel, but apparently jible manage to fix it
<pleia2> knome: you should send, as PTL for this awesome LTS :)
<pleia2> hehe, PTL, whatever you are!
<knome> lol
<knome> done
<pleia2> :)
 * knome bows
<knome> and thanks to you too
<Unit193> 'Welcome.
<knome> Unit193, ...and you
<elfy> ta knome 
<knome> elfy, and you!
 * elfy is wandering of up the village for a bit now - bbl 
<slickymaster> beer bottles up team
<slickymaster> knome, do you know if there is any problem with http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/release/
<pleia2> 11:46:41 < knome> worked on by canonical
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> everyone on social media is telling me
<pleia2> been telling folks to use the torrent for now
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
<slickymaster> the reason I asked was similar to yours
<slickymaster> a bunch of people complaining in UF about it
 * pleia2 nods
<starrats> Just saw your email knome about the release of 14.04, congratulations to you and your team!
<starrats> pleia2 how are you feeling today? I asked ealier but got disconnected 
<pleia2> starrats: ah, thanks, hanging in there :)
<starrats> good to hear
<dockelley> The release page just came up-- congratulations, folks, and thanks.   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/release/ 
<pleia2> knome: social media is killing me :) is there a channel where status of our empty release directory is being discussed?
<dockelley> exit
<SkippersBoss> Evening
<Unit193> Howdy.
<SkippersBoss> Sorry ve been busy with a lot of other stuff
<SkippersBoss> missed you guys
<SkippersBoss> wasn't 14.4 not supposed to b out ??
<Unit193> 14.04 is out now, yeah.  Perhaps you mean Xfce 4.12?
<GridCube> yes
<SkippersBoss> then I have some issues as xu don't want to show me the upgrade
<SkippersBoss> hmm
<GridCube> SkippersBoss, keep in ming ubuntu servers are very loaded right now
<Unit193> SkippersBoss: do-release-upgrade will be enabled soon, but Ubuntu is being hammered so they're trying to not make it worse.
<pleia2> they haven't flipped the switch for upgrades yet, everything is really bogged down
<pleia2> yeah, what Unit193 said :)
<SkippersBoss> figures
<SkippersBoss> I used tht answer a lot
<SkippersBoss> what he said
<SkippersBoss> lol
<SkippersBoss> just have to wait till 2morrow evening then
<SkippersBoss> My new ISP doesn't like torrents :-(
<elfy> also afaik if you have 12.04 upgrade won't be switched on until 14.04.1
<Unit193> That is correct, if it's only checking for LTS upgrades.
<elfy> yea
<SkippersBoss> no I have managed to mess that one up ....
<SkippersBoss> Saucy still running
<sergio-br2> hey guys, congratulations for this amazing release!
<pleia2> yay http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/release/ is populated
<knome> pleia2, not a channel where we'd like to point people...
<knome> sauna, bbiab
<pleia2> knome: sure, but the mirrors should start syncing soon and make everyone happy
<knome> pleia2, yep
<ali1234> apparently 32 bit xubuntu is still more popular
<knome> i'd imagine that's partly because people are uninformed
<ali1234> i figured it was because of the "xubuntu is for old computers" thing
<knome> maybe
<amigamagic> hey guys you can find a note somewhere that you are using an LTS version? Something like "uname -a", etc.
<Unit193> lsb_release -a
<Unit193> Or -d if that's all you want.
<amigamagic> cool! Thank you!
<amigamagic> I just received a message from Eric Koegel for the patchfix I proposed. You can read it here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10813#c2
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10813 in General "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Minor,New]
<olbi> hi guys, gratz with this release :D
<ochosi> happy release everyone :)
<GridCube> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xubuntu-14-04-LTS-Trusty-Tahr-Is-Out-and-Available-for-Download-438238.shtml
<knome> i hate when people do "news" that are just more or less copy from the release announcement, formatted to be less readable
<GridCube> yep, but at least they added a few paragraphs too
<GridCube> most of the posts im finding are just copypastes of sean davis "14 things" google translated
<ochosi> yeah, it's been pretty popular, that post
<GridCube> yep
<GridCube> knome, P: why the wallpaper on the release notes is the one from mainbuntu and not the default from ours?
<knome> it's not a wallpaper...
<GridCube> well, the thumb from a wallpaper, 
<knome> it is not a thumb of a wallpaper
 * GridCube is not trying to argue just found it funny 
<ochosi> actually this is quite a bit better than softpedia: http://www.webupd8.org/2014/04/xubuntu-1404-available-for-download.html
<knome> it's an image from our installer slideshow
<GridCube> alright :)
<knome> GridCube, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6UO2kLfKMjc/Ux3_LpReAWI/AAAAAAAARuQ/CFYnmScSxzI/s1600/ubuntu-trusty-14.04-wallpaper.jpg
<knome> GridCube, that's the ubuntu wallpaper
<GridCube> oh, i see
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> nice, xubuntu got its own blog-post at webupd8 while kubuntu, lubuntu and ubuntu-gnome were all packed together in one :)
<GridCube> i though the one with the gnu thing was the one from ubuntu, but then i remembered that they use warm colors
<GridCube> :D awesome ochosi 
<ochosi> GridCube: hey, don't call my tahr a "gnu thing" ! :p
<GridCube> XD oh gods im falling into quicksand now
<Unit193> knome: Wow, it appears to have some of the things you put in ours. :P
<knome> Unit193, :P
<Unit193> knome: Also, do you plan to remove the evil mouse wallpaper?  Or can I keep it there for safe storage?
<knome> heh
<knome> i guess i should improve it some day, to not have banding
<knome> then do the blog article about color variations
<ochosi> we should do some blogpost about those wallpaper-variants soon
<ochosi> (soon = when ppl have recovered from release-tiredness)
<knome> ochosi, is the locking article somewhat ready?
<knome> or should we update it with the known issue?
<ochosi> yes, that (update)
<ochosi> and we should probably add a screenshot of before/after too
<ochosi> otherwise it's just a wall of text
<knome> yep
<ochosi> haven't had time for that yet
<ochosi> but if anyone else has time to take screenshots, that'd be great
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/trusty_login.png
<knome> after?
<knome> :)
<ochosi> hehe, yup :)
<knome> yeah, as you can see, took it today...
<ochosi> so if any of you still have xscreensaver installed, that'd be great
<ochosi> frankly, it looks *very* nice
<knome> i can install it in the vbox
<knome> give me a sec
<ochosi> great, thanks
<ochosi> gotta investigate an icon bug meanwhile..
<slickymaster> ochosi, I'll be able to take some screenshots next Monday
<ochosi> slickymaster: well if knome can do it now, i'd rather post that article on locking asap ;)
<knome> slickymaster, that'd be too late ;)
<slickymaster> ok, no problem
<ochosi> thanks for the offer though
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/lock_shots/
<knome> ochosi, happy with those?
<ochosi> very nice
<knome> ok, i'll upload them to the post
<ochosi> ty
<knome> ochosi, think i'd rather land a CSS fix before we publish that article
<knome> getting the images "right" is a pain
<ochosi> really? how so?
<ochosi> let me preview...
<ochosi> have you saved yet? :)
<knome> well it didn't really work
<knome> i can save the best version i had
<ochosi> ok, just for illustration that'd be nice
<knome> see now
<knome> that's the issue...
<ochosi> woot
<ochosi> that's only one image though
<ochosi> and the displaced label is the issue?
<knome> yep.
<ochosi> i'd make them smaller anyhow
<ochosi> maybe 320x200 or something
<ochosi> so that they can be next to each other
<knome> well i guess that leads to our next issue
<ochosi> oh :)
<knome> we don't have that size...
<ochosi> what about the tahr?
<ochosi> from the release announcement
<knome> that's the actual image size
<ochosi> what about creating a thumb manually?
<knome> meh
<ochosi> and linking it to the big image?
<knome> that would mean we'd have to upload the images twice
<knome> that's uncoll
<knome> uncool too
<knome> adding a new image size is easy
<ochosi> well how long does landing the css fix take?
<knome> we'd probably get it in earliest on tuesday, because we need IS
<knome> but i can have it ready for that.
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> if you prefer that
<knome> i would
<ochosi> righty
<knome> i've patched quite a lot of things already
<knome> i mean, manually
<knome> so i'd really not let that continue...
<knome> if you want to test the new stuff, and try to break the css, i could create you an account to my staging site
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> trying to break something sounds like fun
<ochosi> but i still have some work to do
<knome> well not now
<knome> i'm having this beer, then going to bed
<knome> but during the weekend
<ali1234> i'll break it for you if you like
<knome> ali1234, hah
<ali1234> i just logged in to xubuntu.org btw :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ali1234> what plugin you using for u1 sso?
<knome> logged??
<knome> ali1234, i guess a prerequirement is some artwork eye
<ali1234> yeah i have an account there now :)
 * ochosi wonders whether u1 sso goes away with u1
<ali1234> it doesn't
<knome> ochosi, nope.
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> would be a sham
<ochosi> e
<ali1234> since it's used by literally everything now
<ochosi> it's quite useful
<knome> ali1234, right, as a subscriber...
<ali1234> yeah, i have no access rights
<knome> ali1234, what do you see on the site then? :P
<ali1234> the site looks the same but i can edit my user profile/see the dashboard (and that you're not running 3.9)
<ali1234> "please notify the site administrator"
<knome> meh.
<knome> i actually think that's a bu
<knome> bug
<knome> anybody with a launchpad account should not be able to see our stuff
<ali1234> yeah, i agree
<ali1234> i didn't really expect it to work
<ali1234> it should be limited like the ubuntu-etherpad thing... to a specific launchpad group
<knome> we are limiting meaningful user groups to meaningful LP groups
<knome> it just shouldn't allow login from anybody else than people from those LP groups
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> that's pretty cool actually, that you can do fine grained permissions that way
<knome> yep, it's useful
<ali1234> that makes me even more interested in what plugin youre using :)
<knome> it's a canonical written one
<knome> i'm just trying to find it on launchpad
<knome> ali1234, https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers
<knome> ali1234, there are a few wordpress plugins
<ali1234> cheers
<knome> aaaahh
<knome> i found a setting
<knome> ;)
<knome> ali1234, try to log in now
<ali1234> denied... but if i go to /admin/ my account still works cos i'm already logged in :)
<knome> mhm
<ali1234> logged out... can't get back in
<knome> nice
<knome> ok, going to bed now
<knome> thanks and congrats to the whole team and other contributors (again)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-18
<knome> and take care, and make sure people are shepherded at #xubuntu ;)
<knome> -->
<slickymaster> nightie knome 
<starrats> CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WHOLE TEAM!!  
<brainwash> starrats: thank you
<brainwash> is your cursor freeze problem resolved now?
<starrats> so far two days in a row no freeze at startup and today when I rebooted it went jus fine, the cursor remains unfrozen so far
<starrats> wonder if tonight I should do my daily updates/dist-upgrades?  
<starrats> or should I wait
<brainwash> why should you wait?
<starrats> ah okay 
<starrats> cool
<starrats> what's 14.10?
<brainwash> from now on there won't be that many updates on a daily base
<brainwash> the next release number? :)
<starrats> ah okay will there be an automatic pop up window telling you to update?
<brainwash> it can be configured
<starrats> 14.10 going to be the 'new' 13.10?
<starrats> ah ok
<brainwash> new 13.10? :D
<brainwash> it's either .04 or .10
<starrats> well don't kmnow how to say it
<starrats> ah ok
<brainwash> but 14.04 LTS is an important release, so we should focus on getting the known issues fixed
<starrats> okay and I do understand that.
<brainwash> and any new problems which pop up on launchpad
<starrats> ah okay
<starrats> I started with 13.10 from a friend who sent me a disk and I couldn't get it to dual boot and used VBox for about 2 months then one day scrolling I found 14.04 and been thru the thick and the thin.
<starrats> and having my ups and downs but stuck to it and I'm glad i did.
<brainwash> that's awesome :)
<ali1234> virtualbox is perfectly good - bt it's even better when you put windows inside it :)
<starrats> I currently have Debian-xfce Wheezy in my VBox and using weechat.
<starrats> Eventually my windows7 side of the partition will disappear and the laptop will be all xubuntu Linux and windows will be in the VBox, lol
<starrats> getting off for the night and will see you all tomorrow, good night everyone.
<bluesabre> !isitout ;)
<Unit193> !isitout
<ubottu> Yes, it's out! Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download | Release announcement at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-April/000182.html
<bluesabre> !isitout
<Unit193> See?
<bluesabre> doesn't work with emoticons
<bluesabre> :-(
<bluesabre> Happy release day everyone!
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre is late to the party
<ali1234> i've seeded 30GB of xubuntu isos already :)
<bluesabre> nice ali1234
<bluesabre> I can thank you for my current leeching
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> this dedi has a stupid amount of traffic allowance... 20TB per month
<bluesabre> ever reach your cap?
<ali1234> no, not even close
<ali1234> the only reason we have a dedi is because of a bug in a piece of wiki software
<ali1234> which allowed spammers to create pages, but not edit them
<bluesabre> oh god
<bluesabre> I bet thats fun
<ali1234> we used to have a cheap VPS with 512MB RAM
<ali1234> but unswappable kernel memory was limited to like 20MB
<ali1234> the bug caused that t be exceeded, and then random processes got killed
<ali1234> so we got the cheapest ever dedi
<ali1234> i would never use a VPS again frankly... they suck
<ali1234> now we don't even use 1% of the resources normally
<ali1234> even though i eventually tracked down the problem... going back just isn't an option
<bluesabre> digital ocean works pretty well, but I had to upgrade to the 2GB, every time I post something it was like a DOS attack
<ali1234> we're on hetzner
<ali1234> hosting about 20 odd websites, mostly blogs and other low traffic stuff
<Pwnna> did the lightlocker issue get addressed?
<Pwnna> it's 14.04
<elfy> ochosi: I think we need to publish the screen locking post - seems to be waiting for a screenshot though
<elfy> and a docs link
<ochosi> elfy: the screenshots are there but knome wants to land a few css fix for that first
<ochosi> so tuesday is the eta
<elfy> ochosi: ok - cheers :)
<ochosi> Pwnna: not sure what you're referring to, but in case it's the lid-lock-suspend issue, then no, that's not fixed yet
<starrats> goodmorning everyone!
<starrats> Is the program/app 'Curlew' going to added/fixed in 14.04, just curious
<starrats> some early morning humor:   http://imgur.com/pauTM5r
<elfy> starrats: and what is curlew?
<starrats> It's a program that converts music videos to audio files.
<starrats>   It worked on 13.10 my friend said, so I don't know if it was in the distro or an install 
<elfy> no idea - it's not in the standard repos - it's certainly not anything to do with us at all though :)
<starrats> ah ok
<starrats> and good morning elfy
<elfy> morning :)
<starrats> I googled it elfy and all I got were birds, lol so I don't know what my friend is talking about atm ,lol!
<starrats> did you see the imagur I posted above?
<starrats> elfy:  http://www.noobslab.com/2013/03/curlew-multi-converter-for-ubuntu.html
<starrats> bbl getting to leave to see my doctor
<Aurvandill> hello
<ochosi> !hello
<ubottu> Hi!, Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines. Enjoy your stay!
<knome> hmm...
<bluesabre> hmm..?
<knome> !hi | ochosi 
<ubottu> ochosi: Hello! Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Please note that this channel is for Xubuntu developer coordination. For support questions, please use #xubuntu. Offtopic chatter in #xubuntu-offtopic.
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> !howdy | knome
<bluesabre> make that a reality
<knome> ochosi, you made me find bug 1309533
<ubottu> bug 1309533 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "Can't edit factoids that are aliases to nonexisting factoids" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309533
<ochosi> so huhu
<ochosi> -so
<elfy> afternoon all 
<bluesabre> greetings elfy
<knome> ochosi, answer that sad guy on #x
<ochosi> knome: which one?
<ochosi> gah, too much distracting/annoying backlog :/
<knome> ochosi, clos
<ochosi> am actually a bit short on time now
<knome> ochosi, dashitis ;)
<ochosi> not really
<knome> settings-manager -> window-manager?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, that's totally fine imo
<ochosi> anyway, i'm out, hf with clos ;)
<knome> yeah...
<elfy> cya ochosi 
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> cya elfy 
<ochosi> elfy: great mail to the ML btw, always nice to thank the testers!
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: I did a spec for trello
<elfy> by the way 
<knome> noticed
<knome> elfy, boo, you beat me. :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> not many people torrenting it seems - I've seeded about 16 copies
<knome> heh
<ali1234> i've seeded 57 copies of i386 and 43 copies of x64
<elfy> mine must smell then :p
<knome> hah, i'm not even seeding
<elfy> hi GridCube brainwash Aurvandill 
<elfy> brainwash: so what was it you wanted me to check yesterday?
<GridCube> elfy, 
<elfy> brainwash: nvm found the backlog - and it was as I expected :p the buttons are synced now of course :|#
<elfy> so - turning off lock on suspend - close lid - reboot - password to unlock! - black screen on tty7 - restart lightdm can then login
<elfy> killall xfpm and reboot from suspend works 
<elfy> suspend from action plugin and whiskermenu works fine - now I'm away till tomorrow 
<Aurvandill> bb elfy
<elfy> not doing very well at going - really off now :p
<knome> elfy, hf :P
<elfy> knome: cya - floating about tomorrow probably, unless I actually manage to get away :)
<knome> bluesabre, added files to bug reports
<starrats> Question?  Wouldn't it be easier to do a fresh install via dvd or usb thumbdrive of 14.04 over 13.10 instead of an upgrade?  Just curious.
<knome> this isn't the support channel though...
<starrats> Well I got a couple of emails that folks are having a slight problems upgradin from 13.10 to 14.04, so that's why I asked here knome.
<knome> i would say "easier" depends on many factors, one big factor being what kind of stuff the user is familiar/comfortable with...
<knome> and how important it is to backup settings and files, and if they know how to do that or not
<knome> there is no single, "best", answer for everybody
<starrats> ah okay question answered and how are you today knome?
<knome> i'm okay
<pleia2> knome: I'm thinking we should mention the minimal CD on our downloads page, but I am so tired right now I might just open a bug for it and do it later :)
<knome> pleia2, lol
<knome> i can do the update, but do you have energy to pad the text?
<pleia2> knome: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2014-April/006739.html is a nice starting point :)
<pleia2> that's the last time I ever want to write that, so
<knome> hah
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMini
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD hasn't been updated with the current md5sums
<pleia2> though I'd like to link to that
<pleia2> I could just update it myself with the iso links and nag someone else to add the canonical md4sums
<knome> mhm...
<pleia2> or two of us could download and md5sum and compare!
<knome> works
<knome> so, should we just point to that page?
<knome> ok, check the pad i posted
<knome> should be ready
<pleia2> logging in to all the things
<pleia2> yeah that's good
 * pleia2 downloads images
<knome> me too
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-WsRvpt1xY
<knome> very good background music for post-release day
 * knome is too confused...
<knome> meh, the website is playing "no login for you" -games on me
<pleia2> the help wiki decided to fall off the planet for me
<pleia2> whee
<knome> maybe it's a bigger issue then
<pleia2> no more working for you
<knome> haha
<knome> "too many requests, dropping support"
<knome> but wordpress 3.9, yay
<knome> every new release means my clients are getting bang for their buck ;)
<knome> yeah, i can't load launchpad either...
<knome> maybe canonical shut their doors
<knome> "meh, the xubuntu release was so much better than ours, let's go home"
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> yay works
<knome> pleia2, updated website
<knome> "Plugins and themes registering custom image sizes can now register suggested cropping points. For example, prevent heads from being cropped out of photos with a top-center crop."
<knome> well done :P
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD is updated
<knome> good good
<knome> you forgot the *'s
<knome> i'll do taht
<knome> done
<pleia2> oh, for LTS
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> yep
<knome> huhu, anything else? :)
<pleia2> no, too tired :)
<knome> hihi
<knome> all the mirrors seem to be okay now
<pleia2> yep, I checked them this morning
<pleia2> which means like 20 minutes ago
<knome> heh
<knome> i just added an id for the minimal header, which means you can now link to http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/#minimal and make sure the minimal section is visible
<pleia2> cool, thanks
<knome> np
<knome> uh oh
<knome> i wonder if the latest wordpress update broke something
<knome> :|
<knome> can't access subdomain blogs
 * knome sighs and goes fixing
<knome> oh meh, forcing www.
<knome> oh, hah, nope
 * knome facepalms
<knome> needs path to be set to "/", null isn't okay
 * knome shrugs
<catwiesel> Hello.
<ochosi> !hello
<ubottu> Hello! Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Please note that this channel is for Xubuntu developer coordination. For support questions, please use #xubuntu. Offtopic chatter in #xubuntu-offtopic.
<catwiesel> Just wrote on #xubuntu and it was suggested I would try it here.
<catwiesel> [21:19:31] <catwiesel> Hey. I updated from 13.10 to 14.04 and now the indicator-multiload does not work anymore. An indicator similar to that, which I wrote myself didn't work either.
<catwiesel> [21:20:03] <catwiesel> It looks like the panel caches the icons, which makes indicator-multiload (has a histogram of cpu etc as an icon) useless.
<catwiesel> [21:20:18] <catwiesel> Is that an actual feature, which I couldn't find or a bug?
<catwiesel> [21:20:29] <catwiesel> And is that bug only on my machine, or everywhere?
<catwiesel> [21:21:02] <catwiesel> (I fixed my indicator by changing the path to the icon with every update, circumventing the proposed caching)
<catwiesel> [21:21:50] <catwiesel> Hi
<catwiesel> [21:22:25] <knome> catwiesel, it's a bad time now, right after the release, but join #xubuntu-devel for more information on indicator changes...
<catwiesel> [21:23:18] <catwiesel> knome: Ok. Will do. Thanks. Mainly wanted to know, if that bug is spread, or just on my machine. But I'll wait, like you suggested.
<ochosi> ok, first off
<ochosi> no need to repaste lines from another channel
<ochosi> especially if most ppl here are in #xubuntu as well
<catwiesel> Ok. Sorry, makes sense.
<ochosi> thing is, we switched to gtk3 indicators in 14.04
<ochosi> so that's the main difference
<ochosi> so if your indicators worked in 13.10, that suggests that they were/are gtk2 indicators
<ochosi> hence they won't work in trusty
<ochosi> unless you port them
<ochosi> there were also a few changes under the hood of the indicators in the 14.04 cycle
<ochosi> they use upstart now to launch the service/s
<ochosi> and we do too
<ochosi> catwiesel: makes sense? ^
<catwiesel> Figured it was something with gtk.
<catwiesel> Don't quite understand what upstart has to do with it, though. Could you elaborate on that?
<ochosi> that's just the mechanism that starts the indicator-service when the session starts now
<ochosi> before there were desktop files autostarted by the session
<ochosi> but anyway, you don't have to worry about that because the xfce4-indicator-plugin takes care of that for you
<catwiesel> Ok. I will look into upgrading, then. 
<ochosi> so all you need is install a gtk3 indicator and it'll get autostarted by it
<catwiesel> Alright.
<catwiesel> Hope the multiload indicator gets updated, then. 
<catwiesel> Thanks for the quick response.
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> if you're writing indicators yourself and feel like writing ones for xubuntu, that's always appreciated btw ;)
<ochosi> (e.g. a datetime indicator with google-calendar sync that doesn't depend on gnome or unity stuff would be very high on my personal wishlist)
<catwiesel> Well, I used the appindicator module, which is not that well documented. And looking at the source of indicator-multiload with dozens of files, where mine is like 100loc in on .py file, I'd say, I leave that to the pros for now ^_^
<catwiesel> Will look through the source some more, though. Might learn something new. Even if it's just the language.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> anyway, new contributors are always welcome
<ochosi> it's not like we're a huge team
<catwiesel> I like Xubuntu a lot. Not that good at reading into other people codebases, though.
<catwiesel> But someday  o/
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> actually coding isn't the only way you can contribute
<catwiesel> I could translate stuff, but German always seems to be taken real quick.
<Aurvandill>  catwiesel aslo from germany?
<catwiesel> Yes.
<ochosi> there is also testing
<ochosi> which is quite important
<ochosi> bugfixing/triaging
<ochosi> and supporting users in #xubuntu
<ochosi> artwork, documentation, etc.
<amigamagic> hey guys do you know what means the last message the ubuntu bot send me here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Low,Confirmed]
<amigamagic> I mean, not here in the chat room.... I mean in that page I linked...
<knome> Unit193, can you go to http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/2014/04/18/image-alignment-testing-post/ and resize the window horizontally?
<Unit193> Okay...?
<knome> Unit193, so, do the images resize nicely?
<knome> and keep in three columns?
<Unit193> No seeing anything different.
<Unit193> Ahhh!
<knome> make the window reaally narrow
<knome> then reaaally wide
<knome> i guess it's better turn that into a shortcode and not try to get it working wysiwyg
<knome> also, automatic probing for column count.
<knome> Unit193, test again!
<Unit193> "OH no it's on FIRE!!" :P
<knome> <3 that new shortcode
<knome> though could be a bit more user-friendly, have to know attachment id's now
<knome> or show all attachments for the post
<knome> but it's a start...
<Unit193> Not sure I notice much different.
<knome> this starts looking like a plugin!
<Unit193> But congrats about it working without js.
<knome> no, it shouldn't be different, that's the point
<knome> but 2 and 3 columns.
<knome> of course ;)
<knome> hours spent on css not in vain..
<knome> besides css3 is great.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-19
<knome> Unit193, again
<knome> look at the right/left aligned images when going very narrow
<Unit193> Oi, big jump indeed.
<knome> wondering if i should do some more optimization, but i guess i'll leave that for another day/night
<knome> Unit193, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/theme/revision/45
<knome> time to go fill some crosswords, then to bed
<knome> nighty!
<ali1234> if you want columns, and you want it to not suck at low resolutions, then use bootstrap
<pleia2> ochosi: your tahr is in the wild (hehe) http://www.noobslab.com/2014/04/ubuntu-1404-trusty-tahr-lts-has-been.html
<jphilipz> hi all, i was trying the xubuntu 14.04 and noticed when i disable bluetooth from the panel, it didnt change to a dimmed icon
<waymon> hi guys sorry for the noob question but i've installed 14.04 and am looking to install the latest dev version. been having trouble finding it
<holstein> waymon: ?
<holstein> waymon: you are looking for 14.10?
<holstein> you'll need to wait a while..
<waymon> ooo, yeah, 14.10 would be great
<holstein> waymon: *will* be great
<holstein> waymon: its not available yet
<waymon> i know it's not stable, i just wanna play with it
<waymon> no dice?
<holstein> waymon: its not that its not stable, friend.. it literally doesnt exist yet
<holstein> waymon: if you want the freshest ubuntu code, install 14.04 and update
<holstein> waymon: if you want newer/relevant, try debian testing
<waymon> oh okay, i see
<Unit193> holstein: Debian unstable or experimental, testing isn't as new as those.
<holstein> Unit193: i think its unstable i was thinking of
<holstein> waymon: ^
<holstein> i forget that testing isnt the newest...
<waymon> side question: has anyone tried to install gnunet?
<holstein> !info gnunet
<ubottu> gnunet (source: gnunet): secure, trust-based peer-to-peer framework (meta). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.3-7build1 (trusty), package size 2 kB, installed size 47 kB
<holstein> waymon: should be as easy as "sudo apt-get install gnunet"
<waymon> you'd think so
<waymon> it's not the latest version tho
<waymon> 0.10 is the new shit
<holstein> !language
<ubottu> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<holstein> waymon: you can ask them for the latest version for the operatin system you are using
<waymon> my bad
<Unit193> Debian doesn't have the new version, thus Ubuntu doesn't either (Yes, Ubuntu can get newer versions, and does all the time, but that's not high priority.)
<holstein> waymon: *buntu typically "freezes" versions, and gets security updates.. rolling releases would get the latest as they come out
<holstein> you can add ppa's, or build whatever you like
<waymon> yeah, i'm just trying to figure out where to get the latest gnunet
<waymon> it has a bunch of dependencies that are super high versions
<holstein> waymon: ppa
<holstein> waymon: try ppa, then ask them for a package, or for what you are supposed to do
<waymon> oooo found this if anyone else is interested https://gnunet.org/content/installing-gnunet-0101-ubuntu-1404
<holstein> im ok with the repo version..
<Unit193> I've never used gnunet once in my life.  Though, not much of a development question.
<jphilipz> hi all, just tweeting a number of problems i saw during trying out 14.04 like network links not showing on desktop - http://img.ly/yEij - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/457396969363607552
<Unit193> Correct gvfs tools installed?  Find them in Thunar alright?
<Unit193> Logan_: Awwh dang man, you're not in ~ubuntu-backporters! :(
<Logan_> Unit193: I feel like backporting is kinda dead
<Unit193> Considering they pinned it at 100?  Yeah, stuck with stale applications for good. :/
<Logan_> Unit193: having them install automatically would imply that they're supported :P
<Unit193> Logan_: I suppose no better way now or in the works?
<Logan_> PPAs?
<Unit193> I said better. :P
<elfy> hi Logan_ 
<Logan_> you need the user to explicitly realize that they are installing unsupported software
<Unit193> Logan_: Shouldn't you be sleeping, prepping for class? :P
<Unit193> Indeed.
<Logan_> if we can hack apt to say "this is available, but it's not supported because it's a backport," then I think we have a plan on our hands :)
<Logan_> and hey elfy
<Unit193> Though, the source should be pretty good, not just some random joe.
<Logan_> and no, it's a Friday night, silly
<Logan_> I do what all college students do on Friday nights
<Logan_> go on IRC
<Unit193> :P
<elfy> lol
<Logan_> well, I was invited to a party
<elfy> Unit193 calls the kettle black - unbelievable :p
<Unit193> elfy: Nah, he's just more sane than I am.
<elfy> :)
<Logan_> me? sane? :P
<Unit193> elfy: To me, you normally get on at 2am, which is "morning there", but still considered 2am. :P
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<Unit193> Logan_: I actually remember your TZ, because it's same here.
<Logan_> are you in the US?
<Logan_> actually, I probably shouldn't bother asking because you're anonymous
<Logan_> so clearly you keep your identity private :P
<Unit193> Logan_: Ohioooooooooo.
<Logan_> ah
<Logan_> by the way, I didn't mean to offend you if your legal name is in fact "Unit 193"
<elfy> I'm not anonymous - I really are elfy and forestpiskie 
<Unit193> Logan_: Hey, even Debian considers me "Unit 193"
<Unit193> Logan_: ...Having fun with ubottu now? :P
<Logan_> there are some weird factoids that need to be deleted
<Logan_> see http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=love
<Logan_> run those commands in order, and we should be good :)
<Logan_> night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<elfy> night Logan_ 
<elfy> brainwash: morning
<brainwash> good morning elfy 
<starrats> good morning everyone!
<knome> Unit193, i just figured out how to link that style with the wordpress gallery. yay!
<knome> elfy, poke
<knome> elfy, check out http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/2014/04/18/image-alignment-testing-post/
<elfy> what am I looking at that for?
<knome> resize the screen horizontally
<knome> and look at the images
<knome> err, s/screen/window/
<elfy> that appears to work :)
<knome> cool
<knome> looking to land that stuff soonish
<knome> i've now figured a miles better way to do it than late yesterday night
<elfy> :)
<knome> the editor side still needs working though
<knome> :|
<knome> not sure if i'm able to get that completely right, it seems to have some quirks
<knome> (not showing medium-sized images, while the shortcode defines that, and works on the public facing side)
<knome> but i guess that's a minor issue
<elfy> I'd guess that you're guess is better than mine :)
<knome> *your
<knome> :P
<knome> well it is a minor annoyance
<elfy> :p
<knome> but there doesn't seem to be much to do about it unless you want to poke the wordpress core... and that's meh
<knome> and not possible with canonical IS
<elfy> ... 
<knome> but yeah, i wouldn't do that with my clients' sites either
<knome> it would break upgrades completely
 * elfy is looking at rejigging the package testsuites for unicorn
<elfy> smaller 
<knome> hehe
<knome> bluesabre, whatever... fix it.
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> gotta know what's broken
<bluesabre> since it worked for me all the way to release day
<bluesabre> haven't tested today
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> but I don't see why anything would have changed
<knome> yeah... we should fix it for "people".
<knome> but afaik, my suggestion is a working workaround
<knome> so if you don't happen to be around, i will tell them that
<bluesabre> but that won't help... since xscreensaver doesn't control suspending
<knome> if it won't help, they will come back
<knome> bluesabre, ping, #xubuntu 
<elfy> knome: does adding the guest session stuff to lightdm.conf actually work? https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/shell-guest-session.html
<knome> elfy, yes, but the link you pasted has a better way to do it
<elfy> ok
<knome> basically, it does the same thing, outside the xubuntu file
<elfy> didn't want to spam #xubuntu 
<knome> and is removable as is
<knome> and since the setting probably covers all flavors anyway...
 * elfy still has 'what DID they do to lightdm" on his list
<knome> heh
<knome> amigamagic, actually, redirecting to the page elfy noted
<amigamagic> knome, ok I didn't find that...
<knome> amigamagic, oh me, that's not working properly
<knome> >__<
<amigamagic> what is that doesn't work?
<knome> works now
<knome> the redirect, but i fixed it
<amigamagic> on that page elfy pasted, the method is slightly different... It works on 14.04 ?
<elfy> amigamagic: those lightdm files are all new to 14.04 
<knome> amigamagic, it does practically the same thing
<knome> amigamagic, but instead of editing the xubuntu file, it creates a new one
<knome> amigamagic, which works, like the xubuntu file, for all flavors
<knome> amigamagic, also, this means the xubuntu conf file is upgradeable by future xubuntu upgrades without having to worry/ask the user which version they want
<amigamagic> ok
<knome> the .d directory works like /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<knome> all the files in that are read as if they were in /etc/apt/sources.list
<knome> in this case, as if they were in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<knome> the numbers in the files determine the order they are ran in
<knome> elfy, ^
<amigamagic> why 50 and 60 as numbers?
<knome> elfy, does that answer some of your questions?
 * elfy thought as much - but hadn't tracked the info down yet - thanks :)
<knome> amigamagic, well, consider you had 1, 2, 3 and wanted to add something between 1 and 2
<knome> amigamagic, you would have to rename files 2 and 3 to 3 and 4
<amigamagic> ok, I understand, but... 50?
<knome> well, why not?
<knome> the bigger the number, the bigger the chance the modification is taking preference
<amigamagic> so you could make run 49 configuration files before it?
<knome> yes.
<knome> practically, yes..
<knome> the number itself is irrelevant...
<amigamagic> ok
<knome> but from the users point of view, it's better that it is 50 than 20
<knome> because if in 14.10, people decided to force guest sessions, and it happened to be 20...
<knome> it would be a race condition; whichever file had the "bigger" filename
<knome> 20_xubuntu_enable_guest.conf would take preference
<knome> while 20_enable_guest.conf would not
<knome> the developers can't know what files the user has in their directory
<knome> so they will most probably just add the next incremental number (*10)
<amigamagic> so, after the number, the precedence it's given to the longer filename?
<knome> well, the "bigger" when compared...
<knome> x > aaa
<amigamagic> ok, so it's a standard sorting method based on the filename
<knome> yes
<amigamagic> thanks for the info
<knome> np
<knome> bbl ->
<Aurvandill> i learned the basics of c++ and now i want to learn how to develop for linux. what is the next step to learn or to do?
<kajair> 4. i want to resize windows. you should point in the exactly same pixel to resize or close or move
<kajair> 5. there is not able to connect lubuntu and xubuntu in ssh
<kajair> 6. double click in titlebar or drag to up wont set to maximize
<kajair> *6: only drag it to upper side
<brainwash_> bug 1310045
<ubottu> bug 1310045 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "flicker at login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310045
<brainwash_> ^ :D
<brainwash_> bluesabre: should we merge https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed ? I planned to add more resize methods and so on, but lost the interest
<ali1234> lol
<brainwash_> so we are 1 step ahead :)
<ali1234> what exactly does that do?
<brainwash_> my branch?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash_> it zooms the background AND puts it in the center of the screen
<brainwash_> like xfdesktop does
<brainwash_> currently the greeter only zooms it
<brainwash_> so you see the top part if your background pic does not fit your screen
<starrats>  to that channel
<brainwash_> ?
<starrats> hit the wrong button, lol, sorry
<brainwash_> ah ok
<starrats> was typing in another channel and it must have popped over here
<23LAAFBCU> I have a Xubuntu 13.10 install on an old machine that insists on locking the screen after suspend/resume.  I've checked settings for xscreensaver and power management, and even removed those packages.  I updated to 14.04 and the problem persists.  I disabled light-locker, and even removed it as well.  I still get a locked screen after resuming.  I asked in #xubuntu channel but someone suggested I ask here.  Google 
<23LAAFBCU> was not helpful, too much fodder.
<23LAAFBCU> What else could be locking my screen?
<brainwash_> how does the lock screen look like?
<23LAAFBCU> it looks just like the screen i get if i log out, so lightdm i think
<brainwash_> ok, but didn't you remove light-locker already?
<23LAAFBCU> bar at the top..computer name on the left top, a few buttons at the top left with session, logoff buttons
<23LAAFBCU> yes i tried that out of desperation
<brainwash_> and did you relog once after removing it?
<23LAAFBCU> removed xfce-power-manager, xscreensaver, and light-locker after making sure they werent set to lock the screen
<23LAAFBCU> yes, rebooted
<brainwash_> that's odd
<23LAAFBCU> let me try another reboot just to make sure
<brainwash_> just to make sure, it's the lightdm lock screen and not the normal login screen, right?
<23LAAFBCU> it looked jsut like the screen i see if i logout
<brainwash_> so you unlock you user account and get redirected to your running session?
<brainwash_> your user account
<23LAAFBCU> im using autologin with light dm, there's no prompt when i boot up.  Only fater a suspend
<23LAAFBCU> after**
<brainwash_> does "pgrep light-locker" return any output?
<23LAAFBCU> ill check here when it finishes rebooting
<23LAAFBCU> im not sure if this is realted but i should mention it....it also doesnt seem to save the state of opened windows..that would be the saved session right?
<brainwash_> after you unlock?
<23LAAFBCU> yes
<brainwash_> this indicates that your running session crashed
<brainwash_> so the system returns to the login screen
<23LAAFBCU> oh
<23LAAFBCU> i see
<23LAAFBCU> is there a log i can find info in to confirm this is happening
<brainwash_> there are a few, like the general system log file /var/log/syslog
<brainwash_> or lightdm related logs in /var7log/lightdm/
<brainwash_> /var/log/lightdm/
<23LAAFBCU> its an old beast of a computer...should probably have died long ago but, it supports s3 and s1
<brainwash_> and X session related ones in ~/.cache/upstart/
<23LAAFBCU> i think ive looked in syslog, and found nothing that stood out to me
<brainwash_> mmh
<brainwash_> also check /var/log/pm-suspend.log to get some info about the actual suspend/resume cycle
<brainwash_> suspend issues can be an annoyance
<23LAAFBCU> yeah....i seem to recall it working properly at first though i cant be sure anymore
<jphilipz> hi all, i just tried out xubuntu 14.04 and noticed a few things that i wanted to bring to the dev team
<23LAAFBCU> it didnt occur to me it could be the session crashing though..at least I have another way to look at the problem now..thank you
<23LAAFBCU> I'll see what i can find and get back to you if I have any more info a bit later if youre areound..thanks sir
<jphilipz> firstly i had noticed that the country i'm living in 'United Arab Emirates' had incorrect time information - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1310065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310065 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "incorrect time information for UAE" [Undecided,New]
<jphilipz> ubottu: yet thats the first problem i found
<ubottu> jphilipz: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jphilipz> ubottu: glad to know it :)
<ubottu> jphilipz: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> Aurvandill, get to know the xfce code. aiui, it's mostly in pure C though.
<jphilipz> while on the live cd as well as after the installation, the bluetooth icon doesnt go dim after i disable bluetooth - http://img.ly/yEi5
<jphilipz> also in the installer, the scrollbars need to be disable for the slide show - http://img.ly/yEiC
<Aurvandill> knome thx
<jphilipz> during the slide show i noticed that some headings were smaller than text underneath it - http://t.co/u30Hupb2MZ
<knome> jphilipz, i'm not sure if the bluetooth icon should dim or not when it's not enabled... but i would check if there is a bug for that, and file if not. it's a wishlist/low level one though
<knome> jphilipz, the installer scrollbars are known, but we are unable to triage it since many cycles. it's disappeared for most people though, so not a high-priority bug either... what was your installation resolution?
<jphilipz> knome: what package should i file that under
<knome> jphilipz, headings, not a bug.
<knome> jphilipz, indicator-bluetooth
<jphilipz> knome: not a tech bug, likely a design issue
<knome> it's a design decision
<knome> the header text itself isn't very important, but splits the two paragraphs nicely
<jphilipz> well another design decision i thought i'd bring up was such small icons on the 'ready to go' slide when there is alot of space on the slide - http://t.co/6BTzrqDJ93
<jphilipz> well as the heading is 'We need your help!' it being larger might catch peoples attention
<jphilipz> is there a particular indicator-bluetooth package for xubuntu
<knome> jphilipz, i rather have smaller icons and plenty of padding that a too packed slide
<knome> jphilipz, "particular" package?
<jphilipz> knome: well i landed at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-bluetooth
<knome> that's it.
<jphilipz> and that seems to be for ubuntu
<knome> xubuntu uses the same package repositories as ubuntu, so every "xubuntu package" is a ubuntu package
<knome> jphilipz, you can run 'ubuntu-bug indicator-bluetooth' in the terminal, and relevant information is posted to the bug report.
<jphilipz> knome: i'll give that a shot
<jphilipz> knome: you asked about my screen size, its 1280x768
<knome> jphilipz, can you "me too" bug 986283 and add your resolution as a comment
<ubottu> bug 986283 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Window too small, scrollbars are displayed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986283
<knome> as you see, that bug is filed two years ago and there hasn't been too much activity...
<jphilipz> knome: i've me too'd
<knome> tbh, i thought that bug was gone...
<jphilipz> about the small icons, ye most of them are still recognizable but abiword and gnumeric arent really
<jphilipz> bumping them up from 16 to 22 will make them easier to see
<jphilipz> especially as these days, screen are getting bigger and bigger
<jphilipz> :)
<knome> screens are bigger, but resolutions usually not
<knome> so 16px might even be bigger than before...
<ali1234> i bet that installer scrollbar issue is related to screen DPI, ie not directly related to resolution
<knome> ali1234, if you can confirm that, it's a step forward...
<ali1234> forcing 96 DPI is pretty much a requirement everywhere
<ali1234> jphilipz: do you happen to know the DPI on your monitor?
<ali1234> knome: do we have a screenshot of the installer looking "correct" somewhere?
<jphilipz> ali1234: let me get that for you, have to turn the laptop on again
<ali1234> jphilipz: if you could check it in the livecd that would be even better...
<jphilipz> okay, let me burn the iso to a usb
<ali1234> also, did you run the installer from desktop session?
<ali1234> "install now" or "try ubuntu"
<jphilipz> yes from desktop session
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> knome: how are the slides done? are they just bitmaps?
<knome> ali1234, ergh, they are html
<knome> ali1234, lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ali1234> ah, okay then. so that makes DPI issue more likely...
<ali1234> is there someway to run that as a "preview" fromt he desktop?
<ali1234> ie without having to boot the livecd?
<knome> ali1234, yep, get the branch, then run ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> yup, works fine here...
<jphilipz> well about resolutions not getting bigger, w3schools.com has 78% of users above my laptop resolution and on my desktop (1440x900), the 16px icons are similarly as small if not smaller, as i'm farther away from the screen
<ali1234> w3fools.com
<ali1234> jphilipz: yeah it's not the resolution though, it's the DPI
<ali1234> if the DPI is different, elements may grow, causing the scrollbars
<jphilipz> well the scrollbars were one thing, and the icons were a different thing
<ali1234> okay. i didnt read all the log :)
<jphilipz> where do i go for the dpi
<ali1234> xdpyinfo | grep dots
<jphilipz> forgot to modify grub for my keyboard, need restart again
<knome> ali1234, is there a way to reproduce the bug with any monitor?
<ali1234> xfce has a "DPI override"
<ali1234> look at this: http://imagebin.org/306533
<knome> ali1234, pumping up the DPI only made the text so big it was outside the visible area
<jphilipz> 96
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> okay it isn't DPI then
<ali1234> does it happen on every page of the slideshow?
<knome> when it does, it does
<jphilipz> every page for me
<ali1234> in my screenshot, the text is further down the page
<knome> ali1234, if i could reproduce, i could look at things to do to make that not happen
<knome> but since i can't...
<ali1234> how about making #slideshow width and height 100% instead of fixed px?
<jphilipz> knome: you want me to run any command to help your testing
<ali1234> i can't reproduce either, at least not without booting up a livecd
<ali1234> jphilipz: you could check if it happens with a regular unity iso
<ali1234> if it doesn't, we can just steal their CSS :)
<jphilipz> no it didnt happen when i installed ubuntu 14.04, if i remember correctly
<knome> jphilipz, bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> jphilipz, cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> jphilipz, ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<knome> jphilipz, and tell if the scrollbars are visible now
<ali1234> it looks like the test thing never shows scrollbars
<jphilipz> the slideshow only happens after the installation files have started copying and i've answered all the dialogs
<knome> jphilipz, no, in your installed system...
<knome> i think i know what to do to fix that, but i'm not sure how to test if it works....
<ali1234> hmm look at slideshow.conf for ubuntu
<ali1234> width:752 height:442
<jphilipz> knome: okay let me boot the os then
<ali1234> they added 2 pixels to each
<ali1234> i wonder why? ;)
<knome> ali1234, but their css says the same widths.
<jphilipz> wouldnt it be simpler to disable scrollbars in the window and that would solve it
<knome> jphilipz, that's what we're doing. but it's not working
<jphilipz> knome: okay
<ali1234> what we really need to do is enable scrollbars on the test app
<ali1234> because disabling them there does work
<ali1234> and it is masking the problem
<knome> ali1234, bzr branch lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/scrollbar-fix-986283
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/scrollbar-fix-986283/revision/628
<knome> that looks like something that could very well fix the bug.
<ali1234> ah i noticed that difference too :)
<ali1234> just saw it...
<knome> but since i can't reproduce... :)
<ali1234> the test app runs inside this Slideshow.py
<jphilipz> okay i ran the commands and there is scrollbars
<ali1234> hmmmm
<jphilipz> there is no scrollbars, sorry
<ali1234> okay, that makes more sense
<ali1234> knome: is ubiquity proper Qt now or still Gtk?
 * knome shrugs
<jphilipz> i can run another installation and run any commands if you like
<xnox> ali1234: ubiquity has two frontens - qt and gtk. xubuntu uses gtk
<ali1234> hi xnox. any idea about these scrollbars?
<knome> jphilipz, since the bug isn't reproducible with the testing script, not sure if that would help much...
<xnox> ali1234: no idea what you are asking about.
<knome> bug 986283
<ubottu> bug 986283 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Window too small, scrollbars are displayed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986283
<ali1234> xnox: ubiquity-slideshow web component has scrollbars
<knome> damn memory, now i'll remember that bug number for a week :|
<ali1234> xnox: which frontend does ubuntu use?
<ali1234> it should be possibly to instrument gtk_ui.py from real ubiquity and try to reproduce that way
<xnox> ali1234: is it reproducible in english locale, only only in longer languages - e.g. french like in the bug report?
<ali1234> not sure but the bottom comment has a screenshow that is in english
<knome> tbh, i think my branch linked to the bug should fix the issue.
<xnox> ali1234: it is related to the default theme, lack of overlay scrollbars, slideshow itself, and the size metrics declared by the slideshow.
<knome> but somebody should be able to reproduce that bug, then run the same environment with the new branch
<xnox> ali1234: try tweaking the declared sizes of the slideshow it it's manifest.
<jphilipz> i filled this bug at xfce after seeing it in xubuntu - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10831
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10831 in general "network link names with %20" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> xnox: the problem is we can't reproduce it with the test-slideshow.sh from the slideshow package
<ali1234> because it is hardcoded to never show scrollbars
<knome> xnox, ^ see my comments. this is the first time i hear about this bug in probably two years, and i thought it was already gone...
<ali1234> if you google "xubuntu installer" and look at image results there a screenshot supposedly from 13.10 showing this bug :)
<knome> possibly
<jphilipz> knome: about the bluetooth icon dimming, i just tried ubuntu and their icon dims
<xnox> knome: i fix it with ubuntu slideshow every gtk update, every theme update, and every unity update....
<knome> xnox, >__<
<ali1234> xnox: but how do you test it without rebuilding a full iso?
<xnox> ali1234: in a live cd, you can modify files in place and restart the installer.
<xnox> ali1234: also probably easier to do an oem install and keep on restarting oem client config.
<ali1234> okay. i'm going to try to make a test harness which is more similar to real ubiquity
<knome> xnox, i don't think oem installations work for xubuntu...
<jphilipz> another bug i reported with xfce after trying xubuntu - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10834
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10834 in General "network links not showing on desktop" [Normal,New]
<knome> jphilipz, yes, we noticed the bug
<ali1234> hey at least they show up in plugin-places now
<jphilipz> knome: both of them
<knome> hmm, right
<knome> jphilipz, %20 is space, so it might be normal
<jphilipz> well if you look at the screenshot, it only happens in thunar
<jphilipz> was wondering, can you install grub on an extended partition
<jphilipz> was also wondering why the search for time zones in ubiquity is case sensitive
<knome> bluesabre, i just filed two new bugs against menulibre. minor, but nonetheless.
<jphilipz> must be mistaken, it must be just slow
<jphilipz> does ubiquity time zone search also search for cities?
<xnox> jphilipz: depends f you are online
<jphilipz> xnox: i meant at the 'where are you?' page, where i can type in a country but only a few cities that i type in come up
<jphilipz> those same cities i can click on the map and get but if i search for them, they dont come up
<jphilipz> as an example, i can click on the city Dubai, but cant search for it
<jphilipz> also found at the same page that they had wrong time zones for United Arab Emirates and Bahrain - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1310065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310065 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "incorrect time information for UAE" [Undecided,New]
<jphilipz> knome: bluetooth dim has been filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-bluetooth/+bug/1310101
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310101 in indicator-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth icon doesnt dim when disabled in xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,New]
<jphilipz> running the ubuntu installer now and no scrollbars
<jphilipz> after looking at the screenshot some more, its possible the '>>' arrows might be causing it
<knome> jphilipz, no, that's not it really...
<knome> jphilipz, it's something out of the "ordinary"
<jphilipz> knome: quite funny that on the same pc, with the same installer, i get two different behaviours
<brainwash_> isn't that blueman's tray icon? or is this indeed indicator-bluetooth?
<ali1234> okay i reproduced it
<ali1234> but it is tricky
<knome> jphilipz, well there is a code difference...
<jphilipz> you mean the html slides
<ali1234> how do i push to lp scratch again?
<knome> scratch?
<ali1234> yeah, like private junk repo
<knome> bzr push lp:~user/+junk/poop
<knome> ?
<knome> jphilipz, yep
<ali1234> yeah that's it
<ali1234> knome: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/scrollbar-issue/revision/642
<ali1234> in real ubiquity the webkit object is put inside a GtkScrolledWindow. i made the test harness do the same thing, and i can make it show scrollbars
<ali1234> but only if i make the window bigger and then make it smaller
<jphilipz> was wondering why none of the ubuntu derivatives put their own name in grub
<jphilipz> i guess mint is an exception
<Unit193> jphilipz: Kubuntu does, but it can break UEFI.
<Unit193> Ah, right, derivs, not flavors.
<ali1234> same applies to them
<Unit193> Sure, but they're in more of a position to fix that.
<jphilipz> i heavily distro hopping and trying out as many distros as i can on a 500gb hard disk with 10gb per installation and i get to many duplicates
<jphilipz> yes i see kubuntu in my list :)
<knome> ali1234, i don't think that's the problem
<ali1234> sure it is
<knome> ali1234, or, well, maybe it can be "fixed" with my branch
<ali1234> if ubiquity didn't put it in a scrolled window, there would be no scrollbars
<knome> ali1234, but being *too small* doesn't happen in the slideshow
<knome> ali1234, anyway, test my branch with that.
<xnox> ali1234: ubiquity uses scrolled window, to make sure slideshow doesn't arbitrary expand the installer window into full-screen.
<ali1234> the scrollbars triggers randomly if the webkit window is bigger than client area - size of scrollbar
<jphilipz> all right all, i'm off, it was fun chatting with you all and submitting the bugs, likely wouldnt have submitted them to launchpad if you guys werent here
<jphilipz> i normally just tweet my bugs and mention the distro
<ali1234> knome: your branch doesn't fix it, i can still trigger the scrollbars. it may fix it in real ubiquity of course
<jphilipz> i had sent in this bug to xfce and it effects xubuntu as well - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10762
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10762 in desktop "thunar devices in reverse order" [Enhancement,New]
<jphilipz> keep up the great work, as an ex-windows XP user i jumped at lxde and mate but i think my home is with xfce, i look forward to converting soon
<knome> ali1234, hmph.
<ali1234> i don't think my test case is valid tbh
<ali1234> it's not 100% reproducable
<knome> yeah, as i said, i don't think it's exactly the same thing really
<knome> i see why it can appear to be a valid test, but it really isn't
<knome> because the window is always the same size
<knome> that means there seems to be something really weird going on.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-04-20
<bluesabre> knome: yup
<bluesabre> it would be nice to know what with catfish does not work
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at bugs tomorrow
<bluesabre> that will basically be the bulk of my day
<bluesabre> I'm very receptive to bug reports, so if people could just report them, that would be awesome
<bluesabre> in that case, thanks knome for showing so much love to menulibre ;)
<knome> of course
<knome> expect more, now that i actually have time to dig deeper into stuff
<knome> ugh, i should be sleeping
<knome> but i was working on a client project :|
<bluesabre> me too
<knome> 5:30am here
<knome> hello sunday!
<bluesabre> 22:24 here
<knome> fortunately i have curtains closed so i don't acknowledge how bright it is outside :P
<bluesabre> haha
<knome> heh, i came home at 22:30
<bluesabre> we just got back, been taking photos and doing family things since early this morning
<knome> aha
<knome> i was playing a board game
<bluesabre> well, that's simple and concise
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> mmh ;)
<knome> except it wasn't, the game took a few hours and everybody was like "oh no!!" all the time
<knome> (was a cooperative game)
<bluesabre> We played Phase10 for about 2 hours
<bluesabre> or thats how it seemed
<knome> heh
<knome> bluesabre, http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/100901/flash-point-fire-rescue
<knome> bluesabre, http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1755556_lg.jpg
<knome> (we won the game!)
<bluesabre> sounds like fun
<knome> yep, it's a good game in the right company
<knome> eg. nobody gets upset if somebody else points them a better plan in their opinion, and otoh, do not just always ask "what should i do"
<knome> if people are less good with cooperative games, it might be a drag
<knome> i'm off, see you later
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox/xubuntu-docs/branchname/revision/192 That makes sense, though not proposed yet.
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1310100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310100 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Enable the user to edit all aspects of the "raw" file more easily" [Wishlist,New]
<bluesabre> so, what fields do you lack
<bluesabre> I've added all the FreeDesktop.org approved fields
<bluesabre> or do you want all possible fields listed in advanced, even though they are elsewhere in the program?
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> If I understand correctly, https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1307002 is intended on my part
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307002 in MenuLibre "Can't remove some categories from a launcher" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> categories are required to keep a launcher in a directory
<bluesabre> so I force them if you have that launcher in that menu
<bluesabre> the work-around is to remove the "System" category from the launcher in the Games menu
<bluesabre> if you want to discuss it, we can think of a better implementation :)
<knome> bluesabre, yes, i was thinking we could show all the possible fields in advanced
<knome> bluesabre, or as the bug says, alternatively have a button to open the .desktop file in a text editor
<knome> bluesabre, re: forcing categories, that's a bit meh
<knome> bluesabre, is there any technical reason to do that?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> add a launcher to the system category, then remove that category
<knome> bluesabre, i mean, if a user wants to remove it from the system menu, why couldn't it be dropped?
<bluesabre> then all of a sudden, its not in that category
<jphilipz> hi all, knome
<bluesabre> s/Category/Directory
<bluesabre> or whatever we consider the menu headers
<knome> bluesabre, yeah but.. isn't that expected??
<bluesabre> yes and no
<bluesabre> what if you move a launcher to another category
<knome> bluesabre, it has *no categories at all*, maybe you could force it to "Other"
<jphilipz> was curious why xubuntu didnt include wubi on the iso
<knome> jphilipz, wubi isn't supported at all any more aiui
<jphilipz> knome: weird how ubuntu and lubuntu had it on their isos
<bluesabre> yeah, I thought it was dropped as well
<knome> well, at least xubuntu decided to drop it ages ago
<elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/trusty/release/ - no wubi there
<jphilipz> wubi is in the iso
<knome> bluesabre, actually, i'm on the verge of filing two more bugs...
<bluesabre> knome: go for it
<knome> bluesabre, well, i need to discuss those first
<knome> they are more like wishlist-stuff
<elfy> jphilipz: maybe - long as short it is - we don't :)
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> bluesabre, first is "enable a mode where the items are only shown in categories they are shown in the real menu"
<knome> or even, just make that default
<knome> i have many many items in the system menu but they are not visible there
<knome> because they are in the settings manager
<jphilipz> well just thought i'd ask
<knome> bluesabre, or if not hide them completely, have a visual cue to imply that
<bluesabre> ok, I'll see what I can do there
<bluesabre> (so make that bug)
<knome> sure, will do
<knome> the other one i don't remember now
<knome> but it was something similar
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> re: removing categories...
<elfy> I'd agree with not being able to get things if they sit in settings manager being an issue
<knome> elfy, i think you're talking about something else ;)
<bluesabre> need to look at how whisker does it, not sure if its a garcon-specific thing
<elfy> maybe - then that's another bug then 
<knome> if it's a technical issue to just drop them from the directory, maybe mark them with a strikethrough to give a visual cue they *will* be deleted?
<bluesabre> I'll figure something out
<bluesabre> basically, if it doesn't require a string or interface change, I'll include it as a fix
<bluesabre> otherwise, it will come in 14.10 :)
<knome> yeah, that's fine
<knome> the reason why i proposed the advanced/text editor stuff
<knome> is that with that, you can workaround some of the other bugs
<knome> if you know what you are doing (tm)
<bluesabre> **if**
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> yes, sure
<knome> but hey, it's called "Advanced"
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> but yeah, feel free to file numerous bugs and feature requests
<knome> mhm
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1310261
<ubottu> bug 1310261 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Reflect the real menu in the menu structure" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310261
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> gotta go start running around, be back in a few hours
<knome> hf
<elfy> knome: what's the team reporting thing on the agenda?
<knome> elfy, the monthly reports, and how it worked to gather them in the meeting
<knome> elfy, and discussion if we should continue as is, or if we want something else
<elfy> k - just checking - thought it was though
<knome> elfy, i think you are thinking about bug 1310264
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<elfy> me too'd it :)
<knome> yep, you can carry that on now ;)
<knome> and add it to the .1 blueprint if you wish
<knome> huhu, i've filed half of the open bugs for menulibre ;)
<elfy> funny you should say that ... 
<brainwash> buglibre :D
<brainwash> we should setup a bugzilla for it
<knome> nah
<brainwash> is this really a whiskermenu bug?
<brainwash> it seems to respect the menu file
<knome> maybe it should respect several menu files then.
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> a menu file for whiskermenu which does not exclude the settings apps?
<elfy> seems that lid close gets you a blackscreen regardless of lock being set on
<elfy> good afternoon eric_the_idiot 
<eric_the_idiot> hi
<amigamagic> hi eric :)
<eric_the_idiot> hey, pushed your patch, thanks again
<eric_the_idiot> off to dinner, bbl
<amigamagic> Thanks to you. :)
<knome> amigamagic, i'm here
<knome> bluesabre, do you have any idea what could be causing the bug where menulibre doesn't even launch? is there something i can do to help debug the issue?
<knome> bluesabre, what do you mean "copy the file back"? yes, it still fails on the machine
<knome> bluesabre, i'll try to run alacarte as well.
<knome> bluesabre, confirm with alacarte as well.
<amigamagic> hey guys, being that the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1307251 has been declared solved with my patchfix, as you can see here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10813 , what I should do on launchpad?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307251 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Low,Confirmed]
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10813 in General "xfdesktop doesn't save the arrangement of desktop icons after a resolution change" [Minor,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> leave launchpad - it's not fixed there
<knome> yep.
<amigamagic> when it will be?
<knome> amigamagic, when a new version of xfdesktop4 with that bugfix is in the ubuntu repositories
<amigamagic> usually how much time pass for a patchfix to be uploaded on ubuntu repositories? 6 months? 1 year?
<knome> depends.
<amigamagic> not critical ones, of course...
<pleia2> lots of great feedback on social media :)
<elfy> pleia2: good - cos there's lots of moaning in support places :)
<brainwash> where is the bottom panel? is it gone?
<brainwash> xD
<elfy> no it's the new special sort of hidden
<elfy> only seen in moonlight on February 30th at 25:61
<knome> elfy once sat on top of it and it's now broken... sorry!
<elfy> ha 
<brainwash> knome: which command?
<elfy> pleia2: though lots in this case is much the same as always 
<brainwash> :P
<elfy> brainwash: it was 'please sit here  elfy '
<brainwash> locks harmful, I better don't execute that one
<pleia2> elfy: well, I'm used to more moaning on social media, so I think we're trending in the right direction anyway ;)
<elfy> freudian slip brainwash ? got lock on your mind? 
<elfy> pleia2: \o/
<brainwash> woops
<brainwash> too much talk about screen locking going on lately
<brainwash> lock.. look.. =S
<elfy> brainwash: are you going to want me to fiddle with laptop screen at all over the next few days? if so I'm going to have to install b2 or something on it - the lock screen buttons sync now ;)
<elfy> and did you catch what I'd said re your ppa?
<brainwash> elfy: no and no
<bluesabre> knome: it appears to be an issue with gnome-menus
<bluesabre> I'll have to be in contact with the gnome-menu devs
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, but how did menulibre end up writing that kind of .menu file?
<bluesabre> I told it to
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> *you*?
<knome> i thought i was editing the menu.
<bluesabre> the program writes the xml
<knome> yeah, i know
<bluesabre> as opposed to gnome-menus writing it
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> so it should be valid
<bluesabre> because I followed the desktop spec
<bluesabre> or so I think
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> and garcon doesn't seem to have any issues with it
<bluesabre> the xfce menu does not crash
<bluesabre> whisker doesn't crash
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> I need to just write my own parser instead of relying on others
<knome> well as long as it's fixed, i can be happy
<bluesabre> -_-
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> I'll work on it
<knome> or fix the gnome-menus parser :P
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> that will be fun
<bluesabre> though it doesn
<bluesabre> 't break on my machine
<bluesabre> so first I need to make it break so I can test it
<knome> i guess i could send you all of my .desktop files
<knome> and included dirs
<bluesabre> that does not sound fun
<knome> hah
<knome> all in .local, that is
<bluesabre> but yeah, if you want to tar that up, I can use it as test data
<knome> i haven't tested that menu file on other machines either
<knome> yeah, i can do that at some point if it seems like it's impossible to reproduce it without
<elfy> brainwash: ok - ta
<bluesabre> pretty certain that this must be a gtk bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1310098
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310098 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Text in the "Advanced" tab is fuzzy when it has a scrollbar" [Undecided,New]
<knome> bluesabre, possibly, but it's annoying :)
<sanchopanza> howdy. anyone able to help me with a release notes question?
<pleia2> knome o.
<pleia2> o/
<knome> \o/
<knome> so, flyer?
<pleia2> yes
<knome> let me export the latest thing i have...
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_flyer_draft.png
<pleia2> beautiful
<knome> make sure you refresh
<knome> might be cached...
<knome> note the non-generic titles on the "did you know" points
<knome> that livens it up a tad
<knome> i guess the thing to do now is think about the frontpage
<knome> and proofread, proofread, proofread
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> the logo doesn't fit the frontpage nicely.
 * pleia2 proofs
<knome> it make it look like it's unbalanced
<pleia2> would centering the "Xubuntu is an easy to use.." stuff help?
<knome> nope, not with that issue
<knome> the "xubuntu" part is what makes the logo look unbalanced
<knome> it would be a lesser problem if we had a background color
<knome> and the logo wasn't spanning the whole page
<knome> but since we can't expect people to be able to print to the edges of the pages, i don't think that's a sane direction to go
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> even a capital X in the logo would help... but obviously we don't want to go that route either
<pleia2> I've probably read this text too many times to be good at proofing, but I think it looks good
<knome> are you happy with the "In the Ubuntu ecosystem" heading?
<pleia2> and some day we'll find a proper marketing person to even out some of our words, but as computer folk I think this is a good job :)
<pleia2> yes, that's great
<knome> heyy... thanks for the compliment! :P
<pleia2> hah! it's mostly things I wrote that I worry about
<knome> nah, i think the content itself is fine
<pleia2> ok good
<knome> the only question we should ask if it makes sense for a non-technical person
<knome> or if some of it is just gibberish and it would be better to talk about butterflies
<pleia2> yeah, I was assuming our target was folks at tech conferences, not people looking to switch from windows really
<knome> but the logo problem...
<knome> what do we do?
<knome> obviously, we'd like the logo on the flyer, but...
<pleia2> maybe drop the mouse at the end and just do like
<pleia2> xubuntu
<knome> >__<
<pleia2> <<mouse goes down here>>
<knome> mmh, but the mouse should be huge
<pleia2> I don't have any other ideas, aside from leaving it the way it is, balance be darned :)
<brainwash> elfy: so we got a new possible fix for the power-manager, see https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<knome> pleia2, i'll try something...
<elfy> knome: you want me to get daughter to read flyer?
<knome> elfy, would be great
<elfy> k - just to know if it makes sense I guess
<knome> yep, or if she has any other comments as well...
 * knome is open to anything
<elfy> ok
<olbi> hello
<olbi> there is a bug in official docs files
<knome> is the bug filed in launchpad
<olbi> in file: xubuntu-index.html, there is bad name of logo file: <div id="header">
<olbi> 		<img src="./logo_title_welcome.png" alt="Xubuntu" />
<olbi> 	</div>
<olbi> there is: ./logo.png, should like above
<olbi> I will check this :)
<elfy> knome: that gets a thumbs up for understanding it :)
<knome> heh, good
<pleia2> thanks mini miss elfy!
<olbi> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty, I can't report a bug :/
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty
<pleia2> olbi: please use: ubuntu-bug xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> from a terminal
<olbi> ok
<pleia2> that will collect info from your system that we need for the report and send it to the right place :)
<elfy> pleia2: lol
<elfy> maia giggled 
<pleia2> :)
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1310347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310347 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Bad name for logo file in directory" [Undecided,New]
<olbi> I have added a fix i attach
<pleia2> olbi: thanks!
<olbi> :)
<knome> the wiki is playing on me
<knome> actually, we should just drop in logo.png instead of relying on the non-translatable welcome image
<knome> pleia2, refresh the image
<olbi> wiki is ok, but docs on cds are bad :D
<olbi> strange, on wiki and on cd there are two diffrent types of logos :D
<olbi> one is only xubuntu and second is xubuntu-welcome
<pleia2> knome: I think that's nice
<knome> pleia2, yeah, that's *much* better
<knome> i'm even thinking a full-width logo moight go with that 
<knome> might too...
<olbi> so which is proper? :D
<knome> olbi, ?
<knome> olbi, are you referring to docs.xubuntu.org?
<knome> (not a wiki)
<olbi> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
<olbi> there is file which have text: Xubuntu Welcome
<olbi> on the wiki you have only Xubuntu
<knome> in *what* wiki?
<olbi> wiki: docs.xubuntu.org :D
<knome> that is not a wiki.
<olbi> sorry, my bad :P
<knome> i just asked if you were referring to that.
<knome> yes, the one in docs.xubuntu.org is correct
<knome> as i said...
<knome> 22:00  knome: actually, we should just drop in logo.png instead of relying on  the non-translatable welcome image
<pleia2> ooh, 12.04 to 14.04 upgrade on my mini9 went really well
<olbi> sorry, misunderstood
<pleia2> knome: I think the flyer looks great, we should SVG and PDF it and release
<knome> pleia2, easier said than done ;)
<knome> pleia2, do you have a4 printer/paper?
<pleia2> oh bother
<knome> lol
<knome> bug 1310347
<ubottu> bug 1310347 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Bad name for logo file in directory" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310347
<knome> the u-cycle branch is up for docs
<knome> as are translations
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> pleia2, you didn't answer my printing-related question :P
<knome> pleia2, if you don't, i'll do a test print when i visit my mum the next time
<knome> or actually, might do that when i visit my dad tomorrow...
<elfy> did you want it printing?
<knome> then i should also make the US letter version
<knome> elfy, yeah, would be nice to do a testprint
<knome> pleia2, you happy with the community photo crop?
<knome> pleia2, i love the diversity there...
<knome> maybe i should do an even better crop
<knome> tighter at the top, not to "cut throats"
<elfy> oops - sorry - little miss elfy is asleep
<knome> no rush
<knome> i have hardly thought about doing those pdf exports yet :P
<pleia2> knome: no, I don't, we don't have that paper in this country ;)
<pleia2> knome: and the community photo crop is good
<knome> meh ;)
<elfy> knome: 'll print it in the morning - is it one-sided
<knome> no
<knome> two-sided, and you have to three-fold
<elfy> right - so each half is A4 ?
<knome> yes, obviously ;)
<elfy> probably :p
<knome> then just print it in a way that the text is the same way once you flip the paper horizontally
<elfy> last time I printed something it was 16 foot long and 4 foot high
<knome> lol
<elfy> yep :)
<knome> last time i printed something i was setting up a photo-printing script for my mum
<elfy> knome: full sized wiring harness drawings 
<knome> eg. do very much assumptions, automate everything, then send it to the printer... manually via a CLI command, because nothing else would be able to give the best quality
<knome> ...without having to manually reset the quality/other settings
<bluesabre> oh man, too bad I don't still work at lexmark
<bluesabre> I could do all sorts of print testing with A4 or anything ele
<bluesabre> *else
<elfy> from windows ....
<elfy> :P
<knome> elfy, hah, that's nice ;)
<bluesabre> from ubuntu :)
<knome> that reminds me, i should backup the sript
<bluesabre> I had some flexibility in my dept.
<knome> script too...
 * elfy never got a lexmark to work
<bluesabre> they're... not the best
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> bluesabre: I've tried to install worse - slates don't come with usb ports :p
<bluesabre> knome: some of your bugs are tricky
<knome> elfy, http://lallinaho.fi/temp/print-photo
<bluesabre> fyi :)
<knome> bluesabre, congrats sherlock ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> bluesabre: nice - setting the fix up for 15.10 :D
<knome> nah, 18.04 LTS
<bluesabre> 16.06, 10 year anniversary of the delayed release
<knome> hehe
<elfy> lol
<knome> or maybe 16.04, the so far last release of the celebrated xubuntu project lead sean davis
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> congratulations bluesabre - \o/
<bluesabre> I've been promoted!
<knome> bluesabre, "promoted"
<elfy> poisoned chalice - wait till I start :D
<bluesabre> haha
<knome> bluesabre, i'll send you the form you need to fill, where you accept all paperwork and bureaucracy that the title comes with with no rights to whine
<bluesabre> but you've whined this whole time
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> bluesabre, and, and the small print that says you need to take days off work if the xubuntu world crashes
<knome> haha :)
<knome> well i didn't sign that ;)
<elfy> yea 0 but he didn't have the right to do it bluesabre :p
<knome> it's a new policy, because the old one clearly didn't work
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> indeed
<knome> the new policy also states you must hand over your wife to everybody in the team when then need cooking or baking help
 * bluesabre goes into hiding before knome sends such a form
<knome> and that it's better be good, or you'll be whipped
<knome> well it's on the way
<knome> the 2 UPS trucks just left the terminal
<knome> you know, a form like that isn't a short one
<knoodle> doesn't sound like fun
<knome> yeah :|
<knome> it can be fun too,
<knome> sometimes
<elfy> really selling the job there ;)
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't suppose you know how to use a debug library?
<bluesabre> after installing libgnome-menu-3-0-dbg, how would I start menulibre with the gmenu debug?
 * bluesabre wants the answer to not have anything to do with gdb
 * bluesabre thinks he figured it out
<bluesabre> knome: if I were able to recreate your issue, I would install libgnome-menu-3-0-dbg, python3.4-dbg, and gdb
<bluesabre> then I would run gdb
<bluesabre> "gdb python3"
<bluesabre> and in gdb, I would type
<bluesabre> run /usr/bin/menulibre
<bluesabre> but since I can't recreate your issue, guess I can't
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> which one?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1307729
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307729 in MenuLibre "preprocess_layout_info: assertion failed: (!directory->preprocessed)" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll run that soon
<bluesabre> sweet
<knome> want to do the A4->US letter conversion for the another page?
<knome> ;)
<knome> (as consolidation...)
<bluesabre> what would I need to do?
<knome> lol
<knome> don't do that!
<knome> i'll do that first, then move to the gdb stuff
<bluesabre> oh good
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> involves exact positioning of elements in inkscape
<knome> NOT FUN
<bluesabre> ew gross
<bluesabre> so, the issue above is actually the same thing that happens super-frequently with gnome-menus 3.8
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1292770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292770 in MenuLibre "crashes upon launch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> freaking bugs
<knome> ;)
<knome> i'm going to foretell that we will have loads of fun with the translations for this flyer
<knome> bluesabre, ok, i did that
<knome> bluesabre, do i just send you the output of that gdb window, or is there some more stuff somewhere?
<bluesabre> does it look like there is any useful output?
<knome> no...
<bluesabre> I guess send it anyway so I can poke the gnome devs
<knome> well...
<knome> see yourself.
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7294292/
<knome> USEFUL!
<bluesabre> darn
<knome> do you really want that in the bugreport?
<bluesabre> nah
<knome> yeah...
<bluesabre> thats a waste
<knome> anything else i can do?
<bluesabre> dunno
<knome> ok, tell me if there is
<bluesabre> I have the slightest idea how to debug that library
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> shutting down this laptop again
<knome> i don't need to edit the menu here really, so i'll leave the menufile as is
<knome> and can do more debugging or anythig
<knome> +n
<knome> right, i have a few files now....
<knome> bluesabre, pleia2: either of you have 5mins and a printer available?
<bluesabre> knome: maybe 4:50
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> UTC?
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> 4 minutes, 50 seconds
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> send me what needs to be tested
<bluesabre> I'll be sitting here much longer than that
<knome> sent
<bluesabre> printed fine, looks good
<knome> good
<knome> bluesabre, what about the community photo, does it look like low-resolution?
<knome> or just okay
<bluesabre> maybe a bit. looks fine on my computer, and I use an inkjet printer, so not much quality expected there
<knome> mmh
<knome> it might be problem of the embedded in svg->pdf conversion
<bluesabre> knome, #x, know anything about openid?
<lderan> a very small amount
<bluesabre> ali1234: do you know if window transparency is still somewhere in the compositor code?
<ali1234> sure, why wouldn't it be?
<bluesabre> as in alt+scroll on window decorations in the past
<ali1234> yeah it's still in the code
<ali1234> both functions need to have an options dialog so you can remap the keys
<bluesabre> I see
<ali1234> there is still a way to do transparency
<ali1234> because there is another key combination that does it
<ali1234> but i can't remember what it is
<bluesabre> ok, I'll dig around
<bluesabre> thanks!
<ali1234> it might be something with horizontal scrolling
<bluesabre> looks that way
<knome> yep, alt+scroll left -> transparency increases
<bluesabre> so, we need to add configuration for that to the settings manager
<bluesabre> I might look into doing that this week
<ali1234> that would be very useful, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-13
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, you forgot to add the last meeting log to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymasterWork> knome, I think that there's something wrong with the team calendar page. It's not loading the calendar, see http://imgur.com/kIO1yxo
<knome> works for me
<slickymasterWork> I'm just getting http://imgur.com/kIO1yxo
<knome> do you have some js/google blocked?
<slickymasterWork> not there, I haven't
<knome> then i don't know what's happening
<slickymasterWork> can you please add the next meeting http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+community+meeting&iso=20150415T21
<knome> i see that too, but then it loads the calendar
<slickymasterWork> I have a medical appointment in 15 minutes 
<knome> i will at some point
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks
<slickymasterWork> got run
<knome> hmm, is it thursday 16 or wednesday 15?
<knome> i guess wed
<knome> Unit193, why isn't the last meeting logs linked in the meetings page?
<slickymasterWork> lol knome, already asked Unit193 that
<brainwash> ochosi: did you ping anyone from the ubuntu team and inform them about the ubiquity + xfdesktop icon bug?
<knome> slickymasterWork, i assumed it was that and set the meeting up in the calendar for wed and also changed the meeting wiki page to say wed.
<slickymasterWork> and you assumed right knome, thanks
<knome> np
<Unit193> knome: I did the other things, missed that one.
<knome> which ever one that might be then...:P
<Unit193> Added the meeting, changed the agenda and the header, and whathever else.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-14
<Unit193> We, again, don't care about UOS right?
<knome> Unit193, and because we don't care, we have an agenda item for it?
<Unit193> knome: Shush, you. ;P
<Unit193> knome: And, nah, wasn't aware of that yet.
<knome> i can ping balloons if you want to volunteer running a session
<knome> oops, i already did
<knome> hai balloons!
<Unit193> Just happend to see a message about it.
<knome> balloons can tell you more about running a session
<Unit193> That's fine, though I won't personally be running one.
<knome> sure?
<Unit193> Very.
<knome> even if you get a cookie?
<knome> (from microsoft's website)
<balloons> <3
<balloons> I'm happy to inform, never coerce or force :-)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> luckily, i'm not you ;)=
<elfy> lol
<elfy> so balloons comes by to hang with the really cool kids
<Unit193> Oooh, elfy is going to do one?
<elfy> behind the bikesheds ... I note that mhall119 sneaks about in here too and even reconnects :p
<Unit193> Several oddities are.
<elfy> <-
 * balloons briefly considers idling longer
<elfy> :)
<elfy> at least 48 hours
<elfy> my timing is bad 
<Unit193> I tried idleing in a new channel recently, kept getting pings...
<ochosi> poor Unit193 ;)
<ochosi> that must've been a nightmare!
<elfy> you can just imagine 
<Unit193> "Why must you be doing the pinging?"
<mhall119> elfy: I've been idling in here for years
<elfy> mhall119: I know :)
<Unit193> So, we should ping mhall119 for no reason whatsoever?
<Unit193> We've also got a cypher mox in here, which I need to bribe for my packageset application.
<knome> Unit193, mhall119 that is?
<Unit193> Yep, that's the one.
<knome> there can be only one mhall119
<Unit193> ochosi: So when you get back, what exactly is https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-enable-animations for that matter?  I know it does smooth scrolling, but any idea what else?
<mhall119> yup, if there was another, he's be mhall120
<Unit193> It doesn't say much.
<Unit193> mhall119: Or, mhall118?  Did you kill the 18?!
<mhall119> we don't talk about mhall118
<knome> mhall119, is that the royal we?
<Unit193> cyphermox: Speaking of you and plymouth, have you tried building with --list-missing or --fail-missing?  Or gotten anywhere with LP 1386005?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1386005 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Password not accepted graphical boot for encrypted root system" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386005
<cyphermox> Unit193: haven't looked carefully
<cyphermox> I'm still mostly reacting to bugs right now, and higher priorities often pop up
<Unit193> cyphermox: OK, think that bug might be a bit important, but I'll bug you about the other stuff for wombat of course. :)
<cyphermox> that bug looks like it's somewhere between plymouth and the kernel screwing things up, IIRC if I use 3.19 mainline things would work, but I haven't checked again in a little while
<Unit193> Removing 'splash' from the boot options is a workaround, but maybe not a well known one.  Anywho, figured I'd poke.
<cyphermox> it was a good idea to
<cyphermox> thanks for reminding me of it, unfortunately I certainly won't be able to retest this until next week
<davmor2> knome: same with davmor1 and davmor3 is just evil :D
<knome> :)
<Unit193> cyphermox: I have a VM handy, I'll test a couple different kernels.
<cyphermox> Unit193: did you see this in VMs?
<Unit193> cyphermox: Yep.
<cyphermox> ok... in my experience it was especially a problem on nouveau/radeon, not necessarily on qxl and whatnot
<cyphermox> ... though I haven't tried so much in VMs.
<Unit193> cyphermox: I sware I'm just commenting, found it odd that Plymouth wouldn't display, and in fact somewhat recently would put the monitor to sleep during boot rather than showing, used a non-Ubuntu kernel and now plymouth even shows up right now.
<cyphermox> ah what?
<Unit193> Can't get plymouth to show the 'logo' theme anymore in vbox, thus can't test. >_>
<elfy> who care's, lets get an image that allows you to reboot and I'll be happy
<ochosi> Unit193: it disables all animations toolkit-wide. that includes certain widgets that sport animations (e.g. GtkRevealer, which is used for Parole's playback-control bar, or GtkStack, which is a replacement for GtkNotebook)
<ochosi> so yeah, i still think it'd be a worthwhile setting to have in the UI somewhere
<Unit193> elfy: Eh, being seemingly unable to unlock an encrypted install doesn't seem good either though.
<Unit193> ochosi: Dang..
<ochosi> Unit193: "dang" good or "dang" bad?
<Unit193> ochosi: Well, Parole uses it, so likely not going to disable by default...
<ochosi> depends
<ochosi> who knows, if animations cause issues
<Unit193> That, and the new Xfwm highlights I want gone.
<ochosi> seems to me you dont like all the new things
<Unit193> Could well be, sure.  Just don't like when the whole screen goes a shade of green. :D
<Unit193> I'm guessing that's a 'no' to both.  OK.
<ochosi> it's not
<Unit193> ochosi: FWIW, that's also a compliment!  It means that Xubuntu is quite good how it is. :D
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well it mostly means that either Gtk+, X11, graphic card drivers or the hardware sucks
<Unit193> While it isn't great, I don't like smooth scrolling, always feels laggy even on good systems.  It's just a preference, and if you could only disable smooth scrolling it'd be great but the fact it hits parole is bad, IMO.
<Unit193> Anywho, put it on my tracker for Wombat, thanks for the additional information.
<elfy> Unit193: ofc, but being that we don't test that - is it something we should get noisy about 
<elfy> more than just referring to it 
<Unit193> elfy: Ah, well this is my personal noise, not Xubuntu team.
<elfy> but does impact on comments made in here
<elfy> by me - should we test this stuff now
<Unit193> elfy: Ah, well FWIW it's not an Xubuntu issue, soo.
<elfy> yes
<elfy> I know :)
<Unit193> Great!  So no more work for you. :D
<elfy> but if we were testing then it would not be just 1/5th or 2/5ths
<elfy> the issue is - that if it is not seen in Ubuntu, they only care if it's a nightmare
<elfy> and as Ubuntu now only bother right at the end - nightmares for everyone else don't figure much
<elfy> the trouble is everyone - us include - release with fails 
<elfy> perhaps we shouldn't 
<Unit193> Indeed, but in this case it's either an older bug or a recurring one.  And, as Kubuntu is aware of it, they tend to make noise and have more weight to throw around than we do.
<elfy> if blog xyz all said - wow no ubuntu flavours released beta 1 because of this - they would notice 
<Unit193> (And of course I'd hate to push more testing load on you.)  Encryption works, and logging in works if you use the plymouth-text theme.
<elfy> yea and it's fail if Xubuntu releases because one person tested and reported 
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, that soundmenu/pulseaudio merger still on your agenda for $LONGTERM?
<ochosi> Unit193: well what did you think i was going to ask about..? :)
<Unit193> Niiice.
 * Unit193 stops bugging.
<ochosi> Unit193: ooook, so i just got another heads up about the animation settings, it even stops the spinner...
<ochosi> so humm, that's a pass on switching that off by default in xubuntu
<ochosi> otherwise we would prolly have to be consistent and switch off the compositor by default again too
<Unit193> Spinner?
<ochosi> yeah, you know, that progress indicator apps have..?
<Unit193> And yeah, understandably.  I think the smooth scrolling annoys me enough to leave it off for myself.  Aha, that.
<Unit193> Stupid GTK...
<Unit193> ochosi: Well hey, thanks for lookin'
<ochosi> sure, np
<ochosi> i wanted to know too
<Unit193> (Took it off my tracker, of course.)
<cyphermox> Unit193: ochosi: elfy: just checking, are we good with the rebooting after install on your side?
<cyphermox> in case anything is still exploding :)
<cyphermox> very lastest image 20150414 should work, AFAICT
<ochosi> cyphermox: sorry, was out for a day or two, i'm not really up to speed
<cyphermox> just askin', don't worry about it :)
 * ochosi stops worrying and loves the bomb
<bluesabre0> hey everyone. just a heads up that my internet is out through at least Thursday
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Hello mein freund!
<knome> huhu
<bluesabre0> :)
<knome> bluesabre0, why did you break it?
<bluesabre0> I did nothing... I'd prefer to have something functional :D
<bluesabre0> been playing lots of offline games though as a result
<knome> bluesabre0, openttd?
<knome> that's such an awesome offline time waster
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Oooh, which ones?
<bluesabre0> Mario, Sonic, other Wii games... might play some final fantasy later 
<knome> hah
<Unit193> Wife happy?  Wife the one that do it? :P
<knome> i'm sure she's happy for sean spending less time in front of the computer
<bluesabre0> She's less happy than I am, needs to get photos to client
<knome> bluesabre0, snailmaiillll ;)
<knome> or telnet them
<bluesabre0> ewwww
<knome> well in fact, i should snailmail my client some photos
<Unit193> Library.
<knome> mobile web.
<bluesabre0> Yeah, she's probably going to upload from somewhere else tomorrow
<bluesabre0> anyhoo, just letting you guys know. If you need an upload, will have to get Micah or a sponsor :)
<bluesabre0> Gotta run... be back hopefully Thursday :)
<knome> hf bluesabre0 
<Unit193> Byebyebyebyebyebyebye.
<micahg> I'm around
<micahg> more or less
<Unit193> \o/
<micahg> except on Thursday :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-15
<elfy> cyphermox: been unable to check for a day or two, unfortunately now I have, reboot works in hardware and kvm, guess where it failed :(
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> elfy: where?
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<elfy> fails to reboot after installing, just sits there waiting for the next Ice Age I think
<elfy> just checking 32bit on vbox 
<elfy> vbox really is a pita seemingly 
<ochosi> oh, that again
<elfy> yep
<elfy> cyphermox: so 64bit vbox, exits desktop then hangs, 32bit ends like this http://i.imgur.com/nztUBKK.png
<cyphermox> elfy: ok, yeah that looks broken
<cyphermox> ochosi: your ubiquity-dm fix doesn't seem to work for me; have you tested it in ubiquity-dm itself?
<pleia2> elfy: social mediaed the expectation for RC landing on Friday
<pleia2> err, proposed RC
<elfy> pleia2: awesome sauce - thanks pleia2 :)
<pleia2> like this: https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/588404831473299456
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> posting to -testers works for you then :D
<pleia2> it does!
<pleia2> lands in my inbox, -dev does not
<elfy> pleia2: nice tweet - thanks :)
<elfy> yep - no reason to not carry on doing that at all, though if I do then I'll just CC you instead :D
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ok, back to conferencing
<elfy> cya :D
 * pleia2 shares default app decisions (and apologizes for failure to formally vote)
<Unit193> Danke.
<ochosi> no worries pleia2 
<ochosi> had your sort-of vote affected the final outcome i would have reconsidered
<ochosi> but as it is, it was no biggie
<ochosi> and thanks for social-media-ing
<pleia2> woo, already got one sad-gimp note
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> Back with the raring cycle or so I was tasked with tracking the progress of libdvdcss, well it's now made it into Debian NEW: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libdvd-pkg_1.3.0-1-1.html
<knome> mm
<knome> up in the 15.10 queue then!
<Unit193> It was tracked for xubuntu-restricted-*
<knome> yep
<knome> i acknowledge
<knome> won't make it into 15.04 repositories though.
<Unit193> Hah, no, of course not.
<Unit193> OK, I'm done with my quantal/raring tasks now.
<knome> laaaate.
<slickymaster> !team ! Meeting in 15 minutes
<ubottu> slickymaster: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<slickymaster> bah silly bot
<slickymaster> !team | Meeting in 15 minutes
<ubottu> Meeting in 15 minutes: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<krytarik> slickymaster: "keycode  10 = exclam 1 exclam 1 bar exclamdown bar exclamdown" :P
<krytarik> Rarely used it ever since though.
<elfy> balloons: ping if you're still showing up
<ochosi> cyphermox: i forgot to add a note to that bugreport stating that my patch doesn't fully work. it does hide the desktop icons, but persistently, i.e. in the live session too (where we actually want them to show up). since it was late in the cycle and it's more of an aesthetic than a really critical issue we decided to ignore it and fix it in 15.10 by using feh to draw the background
<ochosi> cyphermox: that change (switch to feh) seemed to risky and last-minute just to fix those icons showing up
<cyphermox> well, not really
<cyphermox> ubiquity-dm doesn't get used for the live-session
<cyphermox> do you rather mean that it breaks the installed system?
<cyphermox> but if you're fine with just ignoring it and fixing things in 15.10, I'm fine with that too
<ochosi> no, xfdesktop uses xfconf to store/load its settings, and that's what is persistent
<slickymaster> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<slickymaster> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 15 21:01:14 2015 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slickymaster> Who's here for the meeting?
<elfy> yup
<micahg> o/
<slickymaster> hey micahg elfy 
<ochosi> o/
<slickymaster> well, knome will be joining us in a moment
<slickymaster> so I think we can start
<slickymaster> #topic Open action items
<slickymaster> Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<slickymaster> elfy, the floor is yours
<elfy> that was long done
<elfy> shouldn't be an open item
<slickymaster> bah, it's still showing up in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<elfy> mmm
<slickymaster> I'm assuming that the other two would also be done, then
<elfy> the game one is
<slickymaster> ok, moving on then
<slickymaster> #topic Team updates
<elfy> the knome is tying up ochosi
<elfy> no-one remembers what that even is 
<ochosi> i think we did that now
<ochosi> the only thing left would be the games discussion
<slickymaster> elfy, said that's done ochosi 
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not keen on having that anyway ;)
<elfy> I put it on the agenda - it got removed
<elfy> bah
<elfy> that sounds wrong lol
<elfy> it got removed because 15.10 :)
<balloons> ohh my
<slickymaster> hey balloons, be welcome
<ochosi> i have few to no updates
 * balloons waves
<elfy> same
<slickymaster> nothing from me also
<slickymaster> micahg, anything?
<pleia2> o/
<ochosi> #info the hacky patch from bug #1437180 won't get shipped in 15.04, the bug will remain as it is and we will have to resolve it in 15.10
<ubottu> bug 1437180 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180
<micahg> no updates
<pleia2> #info we'll be sharing on social media soon, but here first - polos and sweaters! https://www.hellotux.com/xubuntu
<slickymaster> great pleia2 
<ochosi> #info Gimp, Abiword and Gnumeric will be dropped for 15.10, LibreOffice (or parts of it) will be installed by default (result of the team vote from last week)
<slickymaster> anything else?
<Unit193> That was for/from last meeting, not this one? :P
<slickymaster> bah, too late Unit193 :P
<knome> i'm here
<slickymaster> ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, whatever ;)
<knome> what am i tying?
<ochosi> knome: some action item nobody knows about anymore
<knome> hah.
<ochosi> "knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion"
<knome> it's the XSD stuff
<slickymaster> yeaps
<ochosi> oh ok
<knome> so we should probably just boot up the vote
<slickymaster> knome, any updates from you?
<knome> not really
<slickymaster> moving on, then
<slickymaster> #topic Announcements
<elfy> you can announce I'd really like to see people testing 
<slickymaster> go ahead elfy 
<knome> elfy, i'll do at least one upgrade test on hardware with real data
<elfy> ty
<slickymaster> ftr: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010712.html
<slickymaster> no other announcements?
<ochosi> not from my sie
<ochosi> side
<knome> not announcements really
<slickymaster> #topic Discussion
<slickymaster> #subtopic Rebooting the FAQ articles
<slickymaster> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010697.html
<slickymaster> knome?
<knome> this is my item, but i'd really just want discussion on it.
<slickymaster> this one is yours
<elfy> not much discussion happened there 
<knome> nope...
<slickymaster> I just become aware of it with the email on m7l
<slickymaster> * m/l
<ochosi> i like the idea/s, but i don't think i'll have time to really contribute
<knome> slickymaster, yeah, that was when i first wrote a public message on it
<knome> it's 8 days ago though, so i expected some feedback
<ochosi> wouldn't that be one way to get some new folks on board?
<knome> but maybe everybody just wanted to say they want LibreOffice in in the mailing list
<ochosi> :)
<knome> ochosi, absolutely.
<ochosi> maybe some folks on the forums that have already written tutorials..?
 * ochosi doesn't read any forums anymore
<elfy> knome: or perhaps no-one is that interested
<knome> elfy, which is what i snarkily tried to imply:P
<Unit193> Or everyone thinks it's a good idea, so no objections.
 * elfy is well used to mails to the list being ignored 
<slickymaster> my impression knome was that your email was addressed more to the community than to the team
<slickymaster> am I reading it wrong?
<knome> isn't the team part of the community?
<knome> it was pretty much directed at everybody
<elfy> knome: I'll be able to find some time for that
<knome> so let's just move on, and hope that slickymaster replies on the thread and it picks some wind
<slickymaster> me too
<knome> elfy, great
<knome> elfy, i think there might be some parts that might overlap with the new slideshow project here
<knome> elfy, so let's keep an eye open for that
<elfy> was thinking similar tbh
<knome> so anyway, move on slickymaster 
<slickymaster> we could have a sprint on that knome 
<knome> sure
<elfy> slickymaster: mmm
<slickymaster> what elfy?
<elfy> they generally end up being 2 or 3 people 
<knome> let's try to get some lurkers from the ml to join us
<elfy> hardly worth calling it a sprint imo
<knome> elfy, that's exactly what i would call it :)
<elfy> you might, I'd call it a dawdle
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> we did one of those for the installer slideshoe, the three of us and it worked elfy 
<knome> #nick xubuntu-docs
<knome> #action xubuntu-docs to throw the ball around about the FAQ articles
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-docs to throw the ball around about the FAQ articles
<elfy> slickymaster: just a matter of noun - not important :)
<slickymaster> yeaps
<slickymaster> oving then
<slickymaster> m
<slickymaster> #subtopic Xubuntu session in Ubuntu Online Summit on May 5-7
<knome> balloons, ping!
<slickymaster> also yours knome, I believe
<knome> yes and no.
<knome> let me dig stuff up
<balloons> I'm here :-)
<elfy> could me mine too
<slickymaster> do you want to start elfy?
<elfy> but let's let balloons talk 
<slickymaster> balloons, the floor is yours
<knome> balloons, while you do it, i'll approve your message to the list...
<balloons> ahh brillant. So I trust you saw the email to the list ... Oh, tehe
<slickymaster> so balloons, on the Xubuntu session in Ubuntu Online Summit on May 5-7 item
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010715.html
<knome> ^ there we go
<balloons> I'll recap quickly however. I am inquiring to see if someone wishes to run a session or session advocating xubuntu at UOS
 * micahg misses UDS
 * knome passes micahg the sherlock hat
 * slickymaster never attended one tbh
<balloons> My proposal was to have either a planning session, an open FAQ/community session, or even simply just hosting a 'show and tell' session or two showcasing xubuntu
<knome> i can help plan and prepare for the sessions if somebody needs that support, but i'm not around on those days, so can't run one.
<balloons> I think having a presence would be useful to you and would certainly be welcomed by the rest of the community. It would be nice to get some quick updates about what is happening in each flavor
<slickymaster> it won't be easy for me, working hours and you all know the lousy connectivity I have at work
<ochosi> yeah, sorry same for me (just checked my calendar), won't be around that day
<knome> ochosi, it's three days
<balloons> indeed, 3 days with your choice of timeslots.. 
<ochosi> yeah, sry, my eyes are tired :/
<pleia2> unfortunately I can't make the time either
<balloons> now, it needn't be someone in the meeting at the moment even, if perhaps others might be willing to step up and host something. It really doesn't require much more than showing up
<balloons> we've tried to make it easy :-)
<knome> what i proposed earlier when this was originall brought up in the quality channel was a Q&A session, which would have very little overhead. just turn up and know the right answers ;)
<balloons> The information should be in the mail, and you needn't decide right now of course. I'll be around as usual if you have questions, or need help. I hope to see something, but I understand the world is a big place and timezones suck sometimes :-)
<knome> and yeah, Unit193 and krytarik are good to go too.
<slickymaster> I will try to make the Q&A session
<slickymaster> it will mostly depend at what time it will occour 
<slickymaster> is there any schedule yet?
<elfy>  we need to decide if we're going to do something, then what, then who - then time it accordingly
<balloons> the schedule can be seen here: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/
<slickymaster> thanks balloons 
<elfy> effectively the last slot is 20:00 UTC
<balloons> We try and send something out a couple weeks in advance, so you have a week or so to nail things down
<balloons> we won't turn you away last minute should it come to it, but :-0
<knome> :P
<elfy> you can generally do these things with more than one person obviously 
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> any volunteers?
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/WybNkNw.gif?1
<slickymaster> balloons, when is your deadline to have the confirmations?
<elfy> perhaps we can discuss on list, see if we can get a *user* involved in it
<slickymaster> yes, will you make the call for that in the m/l elfy?
<balloons> slickymaster, ideally by end of next week I think
<elfy> if it is the last session I could possibly be about, but there's no way I'm running on my own
<elfy> balloons: mmm - holy timing batman
<balloons> just after release, haha!
<balloons> really though, whenever, as long as it's before May 5th :-)
<elfy> we're a small team and most of next week we'll be running about on that :(
<slickymaster> the idea balloons, is run a call on our m/l and see if we manage to get some/a user(s) to get himself involved
<balloons> slickymaster, yes that would be ideal I think
<elfy> thinking about it - a Q&A is going to be people asking how to deal with light locking ... 
<balloons> perhaps even pair up
<slickymaster> yes
<elfy> 2 works, balloons helped me when I did some QA thing once
<knome> 1 works, but it's not nice.
<elfy> yep
<balloons> yes.. 1 is like talking to yourself.. 3 or 4 is amazing and 2 is nice
<knome> btw, should we move on?
<elfy> imo 3 would be the thing to aim at, 2 rabbiting, one backstage
<slickymaster> right
<elfy> knome: yep
<knome> this discussion tastes stale
<knome> i even browsed the web during it :P
<slickymaster> there are no other items on the agenda, so I think that's it for this meeting
<knome> no
<knome> i have other things to discuss :P
<slickymaster> shoot knome 
<elfy> now? 
<elfy> or later :p
 * pleia2 hands elfy a blaster
<knome> please #topic Other discussions or sth
<micahg> we should just announce freezes
<knome> it has to be now
<slickymaster> #topic Other discussions
<knome> thanks
<knome> so basically,
<knome> version 96 of the installer slideshow was released first of april.
<knome> after that, some strings were changed for xubuntu
<knome> since the translations are handled via the upstream package, and there hasn't been any new release after that, the strings aren't translatable
<knome> this is OK as long as there will be no more ubiquity slideshow releases before the release
<ochosi> oh, so we're hoping no other team will want a release?
<knome> which looks unlikely, since there has been some changes since that which i believe people want in
<ochosi> can't we just revert the changes - or are they badly needed?
<knome> so at this point, i'd actually propose to revert the change.
<knome> this way if there is a new upload, we're good
<ochosi> what change is it specifically? or: what do we lose by reverting?
<knome> let me dig that up
<knome> it's not huge
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/revision/677
<knome> (and tbe, this was before v96, but the translation templates weren't updated for that version...)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> it's an improvement, but not something that is worth the risk of breaking those two strings for all languages
<ochosi> i agree
<slickymaster> me tto
<slickymaster> sighs
<slickymaster> me too
<knome> i'll revert this change tonight then
<elfy> yep - ack that too 
<ochosi> thanks for handling that, knome 
<knome> np
<slickymaster> yes, thanks
<slickymaster> is that all?
<elfy> one last thing after that
<slickymaster> go ahead elfy 
<elfy> we need to deal with 12.04 going EOL a few days after 15.04 release
 * micahg has one last thing as well
<knome> i should be around for the rotating of the website
 * ochosi thought EOL actually meant *not* having to deal with it anymore..
 * slickymaster too
<elfy> how we going to deal with that? blog post and social media and a mail to Fridge or something? 
<ochosi> i think a brief blog post would be good
<ochosi> plus social media
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> Ä¨ can take of the wiki occurences 
<ochosi> fridge is an option too
<knome> and rotate all outlets with information that talks about 12.04
<slickymaster> * occurrences
<knome> we can probably get reposted to fridge
<knome> pleia2, or?
<elfy> ochosi: I think probably Fridge needs to be done tbh
<elfy> anyone can mail that 
<ochosi> k
<pleia2> are we the only one going EOL?
<knome> no
<slickymaster> micahg, you also have an item, right?
<micahg> ye
<knome> pleia2, at least studio too
<knome> pleia2, that might be it though.
<elfy> lubuntu was 18 months
<micahg> #info Final Freeze tomorrow, Apr 16 at 21:00 UTC
<pleia2> knome: I think this is a first for the community, so I'm just wondering if we could collaborate with others going EoL to propose an announcement for fridge
<knome> zequence, ping
<micahg> #info any last fixes that aren't RC for Xubuntu need to be in by then (preferably all the RC fixes as well)
<micahg> knome: he disappeared for the night
<knome> he'll get back to it :)
<knome> pleia2, sounds like a plan
<micahg> #info final freeze for unseeded packages is sometime next Tuesday, anything that's not on any images can still get bugfixes until then
<knome> anybody WANTS to draft that announcement?
<elfy> action me for it 
<knome> #action elfy to draft an EOL announcement (with other flavors)
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to draft an EOL announcement (with other flavors)
<knome> elfy, thanks - don't hesitate to ask me for help
<micahg> oh, I'll do one last upload of xubuntu default settings since Launchpad has been kind enough to deposit translations there
<zequence> knome: pong
<knome> zequence, see the last ~20 lines
<knome> well i guess 30-40ish
<zequence> We
<knome> You
<slickymaster> great micahg, thanks
<zequence> Sorry. We've had a 5 year plan, but I guess we'll go EOL with you guys
<slickymaster> does anyone else still have anything to discuss?
<elfy> nope
<knome> zequence, i think i overtalked you to 3 years 3 years ago :)
<knome> zequence, at least your release notes say 3...
<slickymaster> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 22:00:36 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-04-15-21.01.moin.txt
<zequence> No, that was for trusty, I believe
<zequence> I wasn't as involved in that 3 years ago
<elfy> "Ubuntu Studio 12.04 LTS is a 5 year Long Term Support release and will be supported until April 2017. "
<knome> oh
<knome> where did i read something different then.
<knome> let me dig that up.
<elfy> anyway - I'm off now
<elfy> thanks slickymaster :)
<knome> "Ubuntu Studio 12.04 LTS is a 3 year Long Term Support release and will be supported until April 2015. "
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudio-12.04
<micahg> "Ubuntu Studio 12.04 LTS is a 5 year Long Term Support release and will be supported until April 2017. "
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<zequence> Heh
<elfy> but you missed pleia2 setting next meeting
<pleia2> woo, no chairing
<slickymaster> yeah, pleia2 ^^ 
<knome> linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/12.04
<pleia2> but seriously, I don't even know when we want to have the next meeting
<pleia2> next week is no good because release, week after maybe we'll all be sleeping
<elfy> well if we had one next week - I'll just be mithering about people testing - so best not :p
<elfy> pleia2: week after is UOS week 
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> avoid that like plague
<micahg> there's a week in between
<knome> i'm offline then
<pleia2> oh, end of april week
<knome> micahg, that was the week we were sleeping
<pleia2> yeah
<elfy> anyway - I'm away now - night all :)
<knome> nighty elfy 
<micahg> I thought that was UOS week :p
<elfy> LOL
<knome> nope
<knome> that's the week after the sleepy one
<pleia2> nah, that's when we wake up and have lots of work so UOS is hard
<ochosi> sry guys, was already falling asleep
<knome> haha
<ochosi> heading to bed now, night
<slickymaster> minutes are up
<pleia2> night elfy and ochosi 
<slickymaster> night elfy, ochosi 
<knome> ok, took care of the slideshow thingy 
<slickymaster> great knome, thanks for that
<knome> again np
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-16
<ochosi> morning all
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> so the overall feedback (from what i've read on the interwebs) was fairly positive wrt our default app switch
<ochosi> and lol, for some reason ppl also started to discuss our default music player
<ochosi> and brace yourselves, those of you who always say there is nobody who actually likes gmusicbrowser, it comes out on top :)
<ochosi> http://www.webupd8.org/2015/04/xubuntu-1510-to-drop-gimp-abiword-and.html
<Unit193> Wow.
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Wonder if GIMP actually does have "98%" of what Photoshop does.
<Unit193> And yeah, looked like one or maybe two didn't like it, but that is a small selection of people.  G+ seems to do polls, does Twitter or FB?
<ochosi> yeah, a few sad faces about gimp, but nothing dramatic and so far i haven't seen anybody who disagreed with dropping abiword+gnumeric
<Unit193> Seemed like a couple, and some were more discontent with adding LO, and thought all office applications should be optional. :P
<ochosi> we still have to discuss what of LO to include
<ochosi> which likely means checking how big the parts of LO are
<elfy> writer and calc I'd guess
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, but maybe impress isn't heavy and if it isn't, it'd be a nice gain
<elfy> I guess so - never use it 
<ochosi> at least to me, that is the classical office trias
<elfy> yep
<elfy> and then which icon set for it too I guess
<ochosi> oh right
<Unit193> I'd tend to agree with elfy, but it's more what's going to get pulled in anyway. :P
<elfy> we've got these guys on team who like to make things look nice
<elfy> thankfully :D
<Unit193> Recommends: libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer, and -writer does -math, so looks like the whole thing or nothing.
<ochosi> elfy: :) yeah, there was a time when i considered making an icon theme for LO, but it's a ridiculous amount of icons...
<elfy> he he he 
<ochosi> Unit193: humm, any way round pulling all the crappy parts in?
<Unit193> I'll leave that up to Sean.
<Unit193> libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc libreoffice-gtk: http://paste.openstack.org/show/204056/
<Unit193> (Warning, not on xubuntu nor vivid. :P )
<ochosi> wowza, style-galaxy and style-human, as if one icon theme wasn't enough
<Unit193> Suggests?   Ignore.
<Unit193> Looks like galaxy can be avoided.
<astraljava> So, due to recent changes in personal life, I'm looking into getting more active on FLOSS scene again. In case the team needs any assistance, I could rejoin the ranks. :)
<elfy> test test test test test test test test test test test 
<astraljava> Okay then. :)
<astraljava> I'll get familiar with the release schedule, and plan a personal timetable.
<elfy> astraljava: basically - release candidate is due out tomorrow - then release next Thursday 
<elfy> don't worry about packages, but any image testing you can do will be gratefully received :)
<astraljava> Alright cool! Will be busy with work most of the day, but I'd imagine I can get to it at around 2000 UTC or something.
<astraljava> I suppose there's still a testdrive utility or something? I do not have hardware I could test on ATM.
<astraljava> Yes, I see there is. :)
<elfy> astraljava: just grab vbox - not sure what state testdrive is in tbh
<astraljava> Ahh... ok, will do.
<astraljava> I'll look for the team's test pages later. Thanks!
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> astraljava: great, wb! :)
<ochosi> if you wanna get into development again too, always feel free to get in touch
<astraljava> Cheers. :) I most certainly will.
<astraljava> I'm planning to find professional positions outside of hands-on development (after this current project, that is), so I'll hunger for messing with source again. :)
<ochosi> sounds great!
<ochosi> there's always lots and lots to do
<ochosi> mostly trying to support xfce with the gtk3 transition
 * Unit193 sighs.
 * Unit193 dons a cheerleader outfit.
<astraljava> ochosi: Ok cool, if you have more detailed plans somewhere, please elaborate.
<astraljava> Hey Unit193!
<Unit193> Howdy, astraljava.
<ochosi> astraljava: well there's a roadmap for xfce 4.14, you can start by reading through that: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/roadmap
<astraljava> ochosi: Aye, cap'n!
<elfy> astraljava: basically - release candidate is due out tomorrow - then release next Thursday      
<astraljava> elfy: Right, so you're saying there's not much point in testing today?
<ochosi> Unit193: just FYI, xubuntu-core has a few fans on g+. are you planning to write up some blog post about that?
<elfy> astraljava: not hugely today no
<astraljava> elfy: Alrighty then, I'll reserve that energy for tomorrow. :)
<elfy> astraljava: I will mail the list again once I see things that can be worked on 
<elfy> more than once ;)
<elfy> annnnd ... images had it again :|
<elfy> so have we done anything that would have the xfce background behind the try/install dialogue? 
<elfy> bug 1259525 again
<ubottu> bug 1259525 in Xubuntu Default Settings "Lubuntu & Xubuntu & Ubuntu Kylin lightdm session fails to start. user-session is not set" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259525
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/guVSpEH.png - vbox with dialogue shoved over
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/F2UKnm5.png
<elfy> kvm
<slickymasterWork> yeah, nasty
<micahg> I'm not noticing any actual translations updates in xubuntu-default-settings, just some new files, so I'm thinking to just skip the upload
<elfy> micahg: we have worse issues right now 
<micahg> ah :(
<micahg> well, if they still exist in about 6-7 hours, I can try to help fix
<elfy> rather than me rehash - logs should be up in irclogs shortly 
<micahg> ok
<elfy> seems though to be bug 1259525 reappearing
<ubottu> bug 1259525 in Xubuntu Default Settings "Lubuntu & Xubuntu & Ubuntu Kylin lightdm session fails to start. user-session is not set" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259525
<slickymasterWork> micahg, I think the last transations in x-d-s were in hu.po
<slickymasterWork> * translations
<micahg> ok, I didn't see any actual translations though, just new files
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10833798/
<slickymasterWork> that seems correct micahg 
<micahg> as in I don't need to upload?
<slickymasterWork> I don't know when it was last uploaded, but the timestamps on the po files are correct
<slickymasterWork> I think bluesabre upload it, but don't recall now when he did it
<micahg> ok, I'll be back around 23:00 UTC, if that bug still exists, I can dig then
<elfy> micahg: has anyone done anything to the image since yesterday's build? 
<micahg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/203384379/ubiquity_2.21.20_2.21.21.diff.gz ?
<elfy> orite - so nothing that's x-d-s then 
<micahg> sorry, have to run
<elfy> yep - cya 
<Unit193> ochosi: Nice, and nah it was released last cycle.
<dkessel> hmm did i miss something? it looks like the german translation of the desktop guide is not included in the package anymore on vivid?
<Unit193> For some reason, they aren't.  They've been translated enough though.
<Unit193> POT is up to date.
<dkessel> strange
<Unit193> ochosi: Also don't see it. :D
<knome> elfy, anything you'd like to work on with me tonight?
<elfy> knome: nope - unless you know what broke images :)
<knome> well unless the images were that thing that made a crackling noise when i sat on the sofa... nope
<knome> i'll plan some gaming for me then ;)
<elfy> was just a reallyu slight hope that some little thing broek the world :D
<knome> who knows... it might be
<Unit193> brainwash: BTW, have any issues with freshplayer?  Wasn't working in FF, but did work in xombrero where it didn't used to. :P
<brainwash> Unit193: I don't use it. some user emailed me and thanked me for my ppa, so I just keep updating it
<Unit193> Sure, I poke it every few months.
<brainwash> Unit193: fedora (xfce) has xfdashboard, any plans for xubuntu?
<Unit193> brainwash: I've noticed, is it shipped by default now though?  And, I'm hoping for repos for Wombat, and don't know/care too much if it's shipped by default though.
<Unit193> We've got it cooking in extras, and seems to be fairly well liked.
<brainwash> maybe not really needed by default
<ochosi> Unit193: you don't see what?
<Unit193> ochosi: Looked at the G+ community and +xubuntu, didn't see comments about core. :P
<ochosi> oh, well, they're hidden in some comments to a webupd8 posting i think
<Unit193> Mmm, I see.
<ochosi> i only noticed that ppl are not aware of -core
<ochosi> and felt we might start to advertise or publicise that a bit now
<Unit193> I could say it 100 times, but people still won't get tasks vs metas.
<Unit193> Helped someone just this week about that, btw. \o/
<ochosi> yeah, well maybe a blog post explaining the procedure might help?
 * Unit193 winces.
<ochosi> writing things down once instead of having to explain them over and over...
<elfy> ochosi: I would blame YOU in this channel :D
<ochosi> oh ok, that's comforting to know :]
<elfy> lol
<knome> some people seems to think we're keeping gnumeric
<knome> i don't understand how you can misinterpret the mail, but...
<ochosi> weird, i thought i was pretty explicit
<elfy> cos people read what they want
<ochosi> "So all in all this means that 15.10 will be shipped without Gimp, Abiword and Gnumeric but instead (parts of) the LibreOffice Suite."
<knome> ochosi, as i said, i don't understand why, but...
<ochosi> i was out working all day, who believes that?
 * ochosi unpacks the elephant whip
<knome> working? what's that?
<drc> o/  (can I have my cookie now?)
<Unit193> ochosi: http://askubuntu.com/questions/252056/should-i-use-tasksel-tasks-in-apt-or-install-regular-metapackages/257172#257172 ist goot.
<ochosi> Unit193: feel free to borrow from it for your blog post ;)
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2015-April/001133.html
<Unit193> ochosi: I have found my blogging efforts are quite wasted, my sister is the blogger/writer and I am clearly bad at it. :P
<elfy> just a thought, mostly pointless, given that no-on reads them but, in last week, status if image in topic might be a simple thing to do
<Unit193> Sounds a-ok to me.  Right before 'daily testing'?  What's the status?
<drc> Would this be a binary "go/no-go" thing?
<Unit193> He could either mean that, or Status: testing  Status: RC testing, etc.
<elfy> no
<elfy> I mean
<drc> oh, right...this is elfy :)
<elfy> Status: image - hardware - working, virtual - not working
<elfy> if there WAS a difference
<drc> So this is a burn/install/boot thing...it has to pass all three (not does it actually work well:)
<elfy> drc: it seems that we have 6 possinble outcomes
<elfy> boot and install properly or not - for hardware, vb and kvm : )
<elfy> generally it's go or fail and look at elfy's tracker responses
<Unit193> Short hand, presume OK unless stated, Status: VMs failing.  ?
<drc> That makes sense to me
<elfy> Unit193: more or less
<elfy> in truth we get pass or fail in VM 
<elfy> if we're going to push testers here - and we could, a topic yay or nay could be a good thing
<elfy> knome ochosi bluesabre ^^
<elfy> I am polite ... should perhaps be release team decide that 
<bluesabre> omg I have internet again
<bluesabre> hello all!
<Unit193> Yey!
<Unit193> bluesabre: You can be lead dev again, I'm leaving. :D
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> Seeya Unit193
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> and congrats on your internet
<ochosi> and good night :)
<elfy> bluesabre: welcome back :)
<elfy> what did you break :|
<elfy> :p
<elfy> cyphermox: so in a less stressy environment, what am I doing wrong wiht a defalt kvm type setup, insists on owning image as root ]
<elfy> did I break it somehow?
<bluesabre> finally caught up
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<bluesabre> elfy: I wish I knew so I can break it less often
<bluesabre> Unit193: since you're familiar with encryption on vivid, mine works, but takes ages to boot... any idea?
<elfy> bluesabre: luv's ya :D
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> so we are now atm back to where we were yesterday
<bluesabre> is that to say the image is or is not working again?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Prompting for password and everything is good?  Where does it take a while?  Before of after pass?  sudo systemd-analyze blame ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't checked, just plymouth spinning for a while
<Unit193> bluesabre: Drop splash, watch what's actually happening?  So wait, plymouth's logo theme works to prompt for your password?
<bluesabre> doesn't prompt, I just encrypted home
<bluesabre> nothing obviously bad in analyze, other than NetworkManager and ModemManager taking their time
<elfy> bluesabre: give me 5 and I'll know where we are witH  basics
<Unit193> Oooh, not used encfs.
<elfy> re encrypt installs  - discussuin point for the next cycle imo 
<Unit193> This is encrypted home, bit different.  Don't remember what's used by default. >_>
<Unit193> I know it's supposed to be slower than FDE.
<Unit193> ecryptfs?
<bluesabre> yeah
<elfy> bluesabre cyphermox - ok, so with the 2150416.1image on hardware, boots and reboots with an image created with gnome-disks as UEFI and standard
<elfy> vbox appears to give problems still 
<elfy> not sure about kvm
<bluesabre> sounds like an improvement at least
<elfy> first thing I will remove vb 
<elfy> try with the repo version
<elfy> then kvm
<elfy> etc
<elfy> but it is close to 1am now and I have headache 
<bluesabre> go to bed elfy, :)
<elfy> ... 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-17
<micahg> are the images good now?
<elfy> not completely checked micahg 
<micahg> ok, I'll be around tomorrow and sunday
<elfy> hardware works
<micahg> I meant the bug from earlier :)
<elfy> if someone can look in virtual over the next few hours I can catch up
<elfy> micahg: so do I - it's almost 2am here ... 
<elfy> micahg: if you get time a boot to 'try' and a boot to 'install' - super helpful for me 
<micahg> I have to go clear some disk space first
<elfy> even more super helpful then :)
<jjfrv8> elfy, I just did installs of 32 and 64 in vbox.  Reported results on tracker. They both hang after pressing restart.
<jjfrv8> Haven't done 'try' yet.
<elfy> jjfrv8: resynced? we are on .1 already :)
<jjfrv8> Yes
<elfy> [00:40] <elfy> bluesabre cyphermox - ok, so with the 2150416.1image on hardware, boots and reboots with an image created with gnome-disks as UEFI and standard
<elfy> [00:41] <elfy> vbox appears to give problems still 
<elfy> [00:41] <elfy> not sure about kvm
<knome> elfy, ok with topic change
<elfy> really hating on vbox again, but it really is time for bed
<elfy> knome: ack - so who' got topic change access? 
<knome> i have
<elfy> you, Unit193 ? 
<knome> he too
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so possibly hours and hours
<micahg> do we still have that iso tester software in the repo?
<knome> elfy, you should be able to do that now as well..
<elfy>  micahg testdrive? 
<knome> elfy, (just topic stuff)
<micahg> yeah :)
<knome> i guess we could have a brief discussion whether all in team should have that access..
<elfy> micahg: if so - just grab vbox and image - same thing 
<elfy> knome: in hexchat other channels, I grab ops then edit topic and enter, assume same
<elfy> micahg: I am not sure what testdrive even does tbh
<micahg> downloads ISO and starts testing env
<knome> elfy, /msg topic #xubuntu-devel New topic here
<knome> ehh
<knome> elfy, /msg Chanserv topic #xubuntu-devel New topic here
<micahg> elfy: uses kvm
<elfy> wouldbe good to see where we are, I think not quoite right 
 * elfy uses that if it proves issue is not just vbox and Xubuntu :)
<elfy> also goes to sleep 
<elfy> knome: ty
<knome> np
<knome> nighty!
<bluesabre> night elfy
<bluesabre> I'll give the iso a spin once it finishes downloading
<elfy> bluesabre: tomorrow .... 
<elfy> I knew I should have waited to shout lol 
<elfy> though do that - then work out with micahg what's up :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> elfy: 64bit in vbox, install complete, hit restart and freeze
<bluesabre> force reboot after and it comes up to good install
<bluesabre> and that's a known and reported bug, so yeah :)
<bluesabre> hm, but that was marked as fix released in vivid, maybe it didn't land in .1?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/966480/comments/54
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966480 in plymouth (Ubuntu Precise) "The prompt asking for media removal is not shown at the end of the installation" [High,Triaged]
<bluesabre> might need to poke around to see if that's supposed to be fixed
<dkessel> slickyma1ter: i don't know if you noticed, but i see the german translation is somehow currently not included in the desktop-guide docs for vivid... :(
<ochosi> morning everyone
<dkessel> morning ochosi
<elfy> morning all
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<astraljava> o/
<elfy> hi astraljava 
<astraljava> I'll be doing the testing this evening, around 1900 UTC onwards.
<elfy> awesome
<elfy> I'm waiting for the new daily to show up - then I need to do some quick smoketests to be happy it works :)
<astraljava> Is that the release candidate, or will it be marked differently?
<elfy> until infinity does the tracker this evening - I don't know, can't remember what happened last cycle :D
<elfy> it might possibly get marked differently on the tracker
<astraljava> Alright, I'll check that out, and here as well, before starting the tests, so I won't perform them on wrong images.
<elfy> once I know what's going on I'll post to the m/l 
<astraljava> Ok great!
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, before 19utc i might be able to run some tests too, would be great to know when today's images are out so feel free to ping
<elfy> something is stirring in the deep dark woods of the tracker it seems :)
<elfy> vivid final is getting populated as we speak 
<elfy> ochosi: that'll be a ping for you now, today's image is there - Daily still
<ochosi> elfy: thanks!
<ochosi> anything to look out for specifically?
<elfy> not that I know of new - not looked yet today
<elfy> but - I'm expecting it to fail in vbox on reboot again
<ochosi> k, zsyncing...
<ochosi> man, i really need a new laptop, those installs area taking ages...
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> I've done 64/32 in vbox - fails to reboot properly
<elfy> just doing both kvm
<zequence> elfy: How is kvm these days?
<ochosi> yeah, seems to hang here too at reboot
<elfy> zequence: I don't use it much to be honest
<elfy> ochosi: ok, so I've done 32 and 64 bit on vbox, kvm and hardware - all fail to reboot from install
<elfy> kvm and hardware reboot properly from livesession - so that's odd but I suspect explainable 
<knome> bbl
<brainwash> does xubuntu have to fix this or does it affect all ubuntu variants?
<elfy> brainwash: I've just synced ubuntu - going to run the 3 
<elfy> I think that lubuntu is seeing the same
<elfy> cyphermox has been looking at this 
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> bug #?
<elfy> bug 1436715
<ubottu> bug 1436715 in casper (Ubuntu Vivid) "Vivid DVD fails to reboot or shutdown w/o hard reset" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436715
<elfy> again
<elfy> brainwash: yesterday at some point *we* booted and the wallpaper behind the try/install dialogue was the xfce one
<brainwash> more bad news right before final release =S
<brainwash> who manages to break these things? :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> this has been an issue on and off for a couple of months
<brainwash> will be probably fixed in 15.10 then
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Ubuntu is having issues as well - luckily for us 
<elfy> I'll get my head together and go visit the people in -release in a bit
<brainwash> good luck
<elfy> lol
<brainwash> mmh, you can talk to cyphermox in this channel too :D
<elfy> yea - he's everywhere :)
<davmor2> elfy: I just tried an oem install on Ubuntu I'm upto issue 6
<davmor2> that was issue 2
<elfy> having some fun then ... 
<davmor2> elfy: oh yeah, I mean who wouldn't want an oem install that had no way to prep for end user
<elfy> ;)
<davmor2> ooops
<elfy> very ooops :D
<elfy> for *us* it is just so much easier when Ubuntu breaks as well 
<davmor2> elfy: hahaha
<_1_Karatecitizen> nice to meet you
<elfy> hi _1_Karatecitizen 
<_1_Karatecitizen> what's your name plz
<elfy> ummm - elfy ... 
<_1_Karatecitizen> ok u a guy
<elfy> could be - could be not - could even be a myth 
<_1_Karatecitizen> I'm just trying to figure out this complicated app
<elfy> not that it matters at all 
<_1_Karatecitizen> are there others here in the room? 
<elfy> yes
<_1_Karatecitizen> ok
<_1_Karatecitizen> how can my phone only search girl contacts??
<elfy> this is the wrong channel, this is xubuntu devel channel 
<brainwash> elfy: it's most likely a chat bot
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> someone like knome or Unit193 will get rid I guess 
<_1_Karatecitizen> it's silly if u not sure the person u adding isguy or girl
<_1_Karatecitizen> is that a room
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, what do you mean by "proper attribution for the changes"?
<slickymasterWork> didn't quite understood
<krytarik> The changelog of the last changes doesn't include many of the changes I did.
<slickymasterWork> well, those ^^^ were plenty and I opt for a sort of a summary on the changelog
<krytarik> Incl. the one pertaining to that.
<slickymasterWork> I'll make a deal you with, you do a MP to fix the bug in the Make file and I'll assure you that the changelog will show that exactly
<slickymasterWork> deal?
<krytarik> The 'fix' change? No, no deal.
<krytarik> I'd be willing to throw up a diff for you though.
<ochosi> please, no throwing up in this channel
<krytarik> lol
<ochosi> we just cleaned it
<slickymasterWork> you drive a hard bargain krytarik 
<slickymasterWork> ;P
<slickymasterWork> will your diff solve the issue?
<krytarik> lol
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: Working on it already, btw - incl. the "Xubuntu Team <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>" one you guys wanted.
<slickymasterWork> wasn't that already included ?!
<krytarik> I didn't. Did you?
<krytarik> Nope, you didn't.
<slickymasterWork> well, I could swear that I did, but I won't go as far as testify for it in a court of law
 * slickymasterWork is going cuckoo 
 * slickymasterWork bows and thanks krytarik for doing it now for him
<slickymasterWork> dkessel, thanks for pointing it out for us
<astraljava> I suppose we're not to expect the RC images come out before the dawn, right?
<knome> astraljava, go to sleep :)
<astraljava> Aye, see about it in the morning, then. G'night!
<knome> nighty :)
<bluesabre> hi all
<bluesabre> for a teensy bit at least
<Luyin> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey Luyin
<knome> seanety sean
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> and bye again, bbl
<krytarik> slickymaster: There you go - for when you come back later:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/Zff6U1mDW5RMepwTy8vz/
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-18
<krytarik> slickymaster: Just put "test: get-translations" in the first one too - I seem to have overlooked that, even though I checked then.
<ochosi> jboul: hi! you were the one sending an email about testing to the ML?
<jboul> yes actually that was me. Hi!
<ochosi> welcome then :)
<jboul> Thank you very much. glad to be here..
<ochosi> if you wanna help out with testing, you'd ideally get in touch with elfy (he's the testing lead)
<ochosi> but ofc oftentimes others in here will also be able to help you
<ochosi> right now we're running ISO tests for the release candidate of 15.04
<ochosi> if you wanna help with that, that would be 1) a good starting point, since it's not rocket science and 2) most welcome!
<jboul> Ya I really wanted to get involved in the testing I have read and learned how to go about doing the testing
<ochosi> this email summarizes things nicely: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010712.html
<jboul> ya i would love to help ;)
<jboul> alright ill read it now
<ochosi> reporting your results on the tracker is quite important btw, otherwise we have no way of knowing how your tests went
<ochosi> cool
<jboul> thank you so much for hthe help
<ochosi> and as i said, if you have questions, always feel free to ask
<ochosi> however, you might also have to be patient at times
<ochosi> ppl aren't always around ;)
<ochosi> (but your messages are read and get replied to later in that case)
<jboul> Alright sounds awesome. It's really helpful to have actual people to ask for help instead of searching through guides for hours lol
<jboul> One thing i was wondering was if went it came to testing for example a package and you see that someone already has tested it should i still test it again?
<jboul> Actually now that i think about that it would make sense to test it on multiple systems
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's one aspect
<ochosi> but generally speaking we rarely focus on single packages
<ochosi> best way to test individual programmes is by using them, i.e. by installing the development version of xubuntu and using it on a daily basis. (but that's just my approach)
<ochosi> anyway, gotta go, bbl
<jboul> alright thanks ttyl
<elfy> ochosi: thanks - that guy was someone who mailed me yesterday :)
<knome> i guess a quick reply on the mailing list pointing to the general contribution urls (probably with a note that we already met this person so we wouldn't go into the details) would be good PR
<knome> i can do that later when i actually sit down on a computer
<knome> elfy, just checking that i've understood when watching it from afar so far -
<elfy> knome: if you're able later - I just mailed list with details for Vivid Final - a bump on social stuff would be \o/ 
<knome> is the reboot/shutdown issue existent only after the first occurrence after installing, or does it affect the installed system too?
<knome> that i can do now
<knome> well twitter, that is
<elfy> ta :)
<knome> want me to specifically link to the latest mail?
<elfy> the reboot/shutdown issue is only about 'remove the install media and press Enter' 
<elfy> after it works 
<knome> ok
<elfy> yep - 2 secs
<knome> i have the link
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010719.html
<elfy> lol - ok :)
<knome> thanks anyway ;)
<elfy> I'll kncok up a general mail to the lists when I'm drinking the next cuppa :)
<knome> ta
<knome> i'll be off most of the day once i am off
<knome> which is in the next 60 mins
<elfy> I'm just chilling all day - not moving much further than up or downstairs :D
<knome> hehe
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/589338788926775297
<knome> there we go
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> I'll ping pleia2 to bump the others - which is what I just did :D
<knome> no problemo
<knome> yep
<ochosi> elfy: np, he sent the email to all admins of -testing, so i received it as well ;)
<elfy> oh right - didn't know that :)
<elfy> still - thanks :D
<elfy> bug 1445622
<ubottu> bug 1445622 in thunar (Ubuntu) "[Xubuntu vivid daily] Trash directory unable to be found" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445622
<elfy> gvfs or something ?
<elfy> obviously not just Thunar 
<elfy> ochosi: other than the remove media bug and the above misplaced bug, looking good at the moment 
<brainwash> elfy: anything about gvfs in the logs?
<brainwash> somehow ~/.local/share/Trash cannot be created
<elfy> brainwash: not looked tbh 
<brainwash> or the gvfs trash process has crashed
<elfy> I'll see if I can find something 
<elfy> just obviously NOT thunar if lubuntu and ubuntu have issues too 
<brainwash> ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log I think
<brainwash> and the dbus.log one too
<elfy> k - ta 
<PaulW2U> elfy: but not a problem in kubuntu. strange
<brainwash> gvfs is a gnome thingy
<brainwash> most likely not used in KDE/Kubuntu
<PaulW2U> brainwash: right
<elfy> nothing showing in those 2 logs
<ochosi> elfy: great! that's good to hear
<brainwash> test with http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/en/man1/gvfs-trash.1.html
<brainwash> maybe it gives some helpful error message
<elfy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIEqdXpG5Pg
<elfy> oops 
<elfy> not that for sure :D
<elfy> Error trashing file: Unable to find or create trash directory
<brainwash> so, blame the one who upgraded the gvfs package! :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> if I sudo gvfs-trash file - it works 
<elfy> mostly this is about it not being a Thunar bug :D
<brainwash> I cannot test it right now, would have to dl the ubuntu iso
<elfy> I've got Ubuntu and Lubuntu images up to date
<elfy> I'll check them both now
<elfy> if I get the same - I'll change it to gvfs 
<elfy> lol so Lubuntu does not have gvfs-trash installed
<elfy> brainwash: thanks for changing package, added another comment - including that deleting a folder works as expected 
<bluesabre> good morning everyone
<bluesabre> elfy: on the tracker, why do the upgrade tests use 20150416 and not 20150417.1?
<elfy> bluesabre: not a clue - but spoke out in -release
<elfy> that said, no downloads are available from the upgrade tests - so you'd need to grab a copy elsewhere, which would be 20150417.1 
<GridCube> oh... well then P: i still need to upgrade to utopic to try so maybe on monday it will be available ?
<bluesabre> thanks elfy :)
<elfy> GridCube: hope so 
<elfy> bbl 
<bluesabre> elfy...
<elfy> bluesabre: yep?
<bluesabre> just messing with you, go on, bbl :P
<elfy> LOL
<elfy> hatez you 
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> still think you broke the remove media button somehow :p
<bluesabre> probably did
<bluesabre> somehow
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> well - really off now - have a good day :)
<bluesabre> you too, seeya
<slickymaster> hey everybody
<Luyin> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> o/
<Luyin> slickymaster: I cannot but think of hitler when you write this :D
<slickymaster> blaarrrgh for sending the wrong message then Luyin :P
<Luyin> ;)
<slickymaster> :)
 * drc is wondering which is more nerve wracking, release "when it's ready" and ready keeps slipping (debian, slackware) or "you WILL release on schedule" and then don't (cough, cough). :)
<OvenWerks> Interesting bug in xfce as installed 14.04 (so it may be fixed by now) with regards to a second pannel on a two monitor setup.
<OvenWerks> the second pannel is on the second (nonmaster) monitor.
<OvenWerks> when choosing full screen for a window on the master screen, space is left for the pannel (that is not there) but on the second screen, part of it ends up under the pannel.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-04-19
<astraljava> blech... finally able to start testing. Yesterday and Friday didn't exactly go as planned. ;)
 * pleia2 g+ && fb the RC upgrade test info
<astraljava> Right, this is going to be the first and the last time I'm testing an ISO on this POS laptop. It's been 2+ hours, and it's still not done. I guess I'll stick to developing. It's much less resource-hungry. :p
<ochosi> astraljava: depends on what you're compiling though
<astraljava> ochosi: I know. :) Still, it's ridiculous that the installation takes almost three hours, as it has done now. I'm not about to build gimp or anything like that at first.
<ochosi> strange though, my laptop is 6yrs old and an average install takes "only" 30-40min
<astraljava> This is old enough that upgrading it (with an SSD, for example) makes no sense, either.
<astraljava> ochosi: In vbox?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> real installs are a bit faster
<astraljava> Well, that is strange.
<ochosi> i have an ssd though
<astraljava> Ahh... well that could explain some of it.
<ochosi> so that surely helps, but still, the laptop itself is 6yrs old
<astraljava> So is mine.
<astraljava> *-cpu
<astraljava>           product: Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU       T4200  @ 2.00GHz
<astraljava> 4GB RAM
<astraljava> So either there's something busted, or it's the HDD that's the culprit here.
<ochosi> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T8300  @ 2.40GHz
<ochosi> so yeah, a few GHz faster than yours
<ochosi> (and 4gb ram too)
<knome> krytarik, 
<knome> Automatic synchronization
<knome> Translations are imported with every update from branch lp:xubuntu-docs, and exported daily to branch lp:xubuntu-docs. 
<astraljava> Fortunately not few GHz, but a few point-GHz. :D Otherwise I wouldn't even play this game. :p But yeah, that doesn't explain the whole difference, not by a long shot.
<knome> do we want to set that off for some reason?
<krytarik> knome: Generally not, no - just have that loop stopped somehow.
<knome> i guess there is no way to set that off
<knome> well except turn those off..
<astraljava> Yeah, so the machine never rebooted after the installation. I'm not going to file these results, it's obvious this hardware isn't suitable for that line of work.
<elfy> astraljava: didn't reboot at all? or didn't reboot when you press enter to remove ?
<astraljava> elfy: It got stuck once I pressed the button that's there once the installer finishes, I forget what it says.
<elfy> astraljava: ok as long as it comes up from a hard reboot - that's a known issue
<elfy> thank you for perservering :)
<elfy> bug 1445592
<ubottu> bug 1445592 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "vivid fails to shutdown or reboot at end of installation when "reboot now" button is pressed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445592
<astraljava> Oh ok, good to know. :)
<elfy> always useful for people to look at the tracker for those things
<astraljava> Yeah, you're right. I'm still a little rusty when it comes to the process. :) But then again, this machine is not suitable for that line of work, so I'll refresh myself on the matter once I get ahold of a computer that's usable.
<elfy> I do stuff on an old laptop
<astraljava> Yeah, me too. But as where ochosi gets an installation done in 30-40 minutes in vbox, mine spent three and a half hours on the same task.
<elfy> yea - well this machine has a win partition for little one and the rest I actually hard install - so no vm in the mix
<astraljava> Right, that might be the way to go. But I need the whole HDD dedicated for the actual installation. Oh well, I'll see what I can do with the desktop, just need to find a monitor for it.
<elfy> maybe try kvm instead
<elfy> I manage to get away with less memory in that than vbox
<astraljava> Alright, will try that the next time. Thanks!
<elfy> can but try :)
<astraljava> Exactly. :)
<bluesabre> I keep getting pinged in the wrong channel and not paying attention
<knome> ;)
<knome> no money to pay attention
<knome> sad :|
<bluesabre> probably an easy solution would be to hop off of -ot
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> but yeah, it's probably not a critical bug that breaks any functionality, so not sure the docs update is enough to get an exception for final freeze
<knome> otoh, the release team has always been pretty loose on flavor-only stuff
<knome> this literally only affects us
<bluesabre> also true
<bluesabre> slickymaster, krytarik: is there a bug report associated with the missing language.  We'll need to tack that onto the debian changelog and get an ack on that to apply for an exception
<krytarik> bluesabre: No, not that I know of - would have to do one then.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-18
<flocculant> rebuilding images
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - done that then - just need you to do the XPL bit on launchpad now :)
<flocculant> shame swissbot doesn't know when our normal images get built
<Unit193> About how long for a rebuild?
<flocculant> 30 minutes to announcement
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/xubuntu
<flocculant> says ~30 minutes ago - so 15 minutes for it to build 
<flocculant> but that's just one set obviously - depends where we are in list if it's global rebuild :p
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - rebuilt image with new artwork - all ok there 
<flocculant> bbl
<ochosi> flocculant: awesome, that's great news!
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, great to hear
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for all the hard work btw!
<bluesabre> ochosi: of course :D still a bit more to do
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean for the 16.04 final image or in general? :)
<bluesabre> Gotta figure out thunar, hopefully in a short amount of time
<ochosi> yeah, the thunar issue... i know
<ochosi> from what ali1234 wrote the patch i mentioned a while ago (by harald) fixes the crash, but then there's another problem with thunar not repainting correctly
<ochosi> (i wonder what's worse)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> which patch
<bluesabre> I think we can handle bad repainting, unless it always happens and you can't tell the file was moved
<ali1234> there are only two patches on thunar git since the last release
<ali1234> this one: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=029012f4c39d9d3d9ae617491a69f76f54a4192f
<ali1234> and this one: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=77cf6ec3a3969589a4e9a8beea6a122b7dbcc2a0
<ali1234> they both introduce extra checks and return if the checks fail
<ali1234> so now instead of crashing, thunar just stops doing whatever it was doing and returns
<ali1234> that seems to mean it stops before redrawing the screen
<ali1234> so i conclude the bug is not actually fixed, it is just caught before it crashes
<ochosi> yeah, sounds like a reasonable conclusion
<ali1234> actually returning nothing instead of NULL probably causes the stack corruption that causes the crash, so it's probably the second patch that is responsible
<bluesabre> ali1234, but it does seem like those patches would be desirable, would you agree?
<ali1234> sure
<bluesabre> Unit193, are those the ones we have in the PPA, or do we have another? If the latter, want to drop those into -staging for some quick testing? Otherwise, I'll get them in the PPA this evening.
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> ochosi: you need to reply too https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-April/003694.html
<flocculant> just in case you're not subscribed 
<ochosi> flocculant: i received it and also replied (just now)
<ochosi> but thanks for highlighting, there's always the chance that i'd have missed it
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome - just thought that one I ought to say something before it's Thursday :p
<ochosi> hehe, indeed
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: don't forget to add akxwi-dave either :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Just the former.
<flocculant> oh damnation
<flocculant> if I had thought to search with git I could have told ochosi this the other day :|
<pjotter> Hi there people! Recently I have noticed that the icon of the whiskermenu sometimes disappears. When I hover the mouse over the positio where it should be, it becomes visible again. Does anyone know what's up with that?
<flocculant> pjotter: I've just seen a couple of random reports around the place - not any sort of reason nor resolution
<flocculant> nor can I remember exactly what either - possibly theme related 
<pjotter> I just found the bug report
<pjotter> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New]
<pjotter> This is what happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxa_0hbBCg
<flocculant> oh yea - that reminded me now
<pjotter> But I guess, they already know and are working on a fix... It's not a real big problem but it doesn't look good.
<flocculant> but that is xfce4.10 
<flocculant> isn't it? 
<pjotter> I think so. I'm running 14.04 (out of the box) So, that's 4.10 isn't it?
<pjotter> Yes, I got it. It's 4.10.
<flocculant> aah and also 4.12 if you see comments
<pjotter> hmmm... There is a patch supplied that is supposed to work
<pjotter> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5969
<flocculant> pjotter: would be good if we can get it confirmed as still there in 16.04 - might be able to do something for the .1 release
<pjotter> Is 16.04 out already?
<flocculant> there is a launchpad bug 1397095 too 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1397095 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "dragging applications in the task bar causes repaint errors" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397095
<flocculant> pjotter: no - but there's a less than gnat's whisker of getting this looked at in 2 days ;)
<pjotter> Probably... :D
<flocculant> I'll add it to the 16.10 blueprint and see if I can confirm it next week 
<pjotter> btw I'm on 14.04 amd64
<flocculant> yep
<pjotter> I really should start reporting these kinds of things to the launchpad... 
<flocculant> my last unused 14.04 will bite the dust tomorrow when it gets subjected to an upgrade test
<flocculant> pjotter: well - thanks for reminding me - sorry I can't actually help you :)
<pjotter> Mine just crashed  yesterday. So I'm using a shiny new one right now... Until 16.04 comes out I guess :D
<pjotter> It's ok
<pjotter> You know there is a minor bug that has been in xubuntu for a very very long time. But many people don;t seem to notice.
<flocculant> I don't doubt it at all :)
<pjotter> It concerns the panel trash-icon. I put mine on the panel. And when I put something in the trash, log-out and in again... the icon is not updated properly and always shows an empty trashcan. Putting a dummy file in the trash and deleting it, updates the icon. I made a script that does this on every logon.
<pjotter> It's probably related to xfce4 or the panel trash thingy.
 * flocculant logs out and in 
<flocculant> pjotter: shows full here - but xfce4.12 and xubuntu 16.04
<pjotter> O great! Would love tyo see this solved.
<pjotter> There just minor things, I know.
<flocculant> pjotter: http://i.imgur.com/QT8ifSx.png
<pjotter> I haven't actually tested this for a while now... let me make sure this is still an issue here...
<pjotter> brb
<dkessel> Confirmed that Repaint bug, flocculant
<flocculant> dkessel: the dragging thingy? 
<dkessel> flocculant: yup
<flocculant> aah yes - I see you tagged it \o/
<flocculant> dkessel: thanks :)
<pjotter> back again ;)
<flocculant> pjotter: wb 
<pjotter> I couldn't get back on freenode.net :|
<flocculant> ... 
<pjotter> I had to switch to irc.ipv6.freenode.net instead. That seems to work
<pjotter> Anyway... So, yups. The trash problem still remains in 4.10 and 14.04.
<pjotter> It
<flocculant> ok - just let me check here again
<flocculant> pjotter: working here 
<flocculant> so regardless of trash state - after login - it is correct
<pjotter> Alright. So, it got fixed somewhere along the line then :) Nice
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> off to do some grub - then back to the 'release is almost upon us again' things :)
<flocculant> pjotter: btw someone has confirmed the 'dragging icon' bug in xenial while you were fighting with freenode
<pjotter> Do you know the correct server for freenode?
<pjotter> I just used chat.freenode.net 6667 But maybe it should have been irc.freenode.net?
<pjotter> It's a bit puzzeling to me. Why the one minute I can get access to chat.freenode.net without any problem and another second, no matter what, I can't get on.
<pjotter> hmmm... I just found chat.freenode.net:6697
<pjotter> Let's see if that works
<pjotter> brb
<pjotter> Weird stuff... :/
<pjotter> I'm back on using chat.freenode.net 6667 again. Now suddenly it works.
<pjotter> anyways...
<ochosi> akxwi-dave: hey - welcome to the xubuntu team! :) (i just added you to the LP team)
<akxwi-dave> ochosi, thx mate.. :-)
<ochosi> flocculant: ^
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> no problemo :)
<knome> --> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3909&preview=true
<knome> feel free to poke around the content
<flocculant> knome: which is over 10% more than in the 16.04 competition 
<flocculant> 14.04?
<ochosi> knome: nice!
<ochosi> also, i gotta say (especially now that i see this overview again) that i'm quite happy with how the contest turned out. nice selection.
<ochosi> bluesabre: and rly, bluesabreWife? :p didn't think you'd actually stick to that
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> sorry nothings coming up for me there.. assuming i'm supposed to see it.. :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you need to be logged in 
<akxwi-dave> doh....
<flocculant> not sure who can do that tbh
<flocculant> I think -team can - not sure
<flocculant> knome will be able to tell you :)
<akxwi-dave> knome did give a login for it a while ago i think
<flocculant> k - see pm :)
<akxwi-dave> cheers and in..
<flocculant> knome: once you're done - I'll have a play with words :)
<flocculant> ochosi: and yea - nice selection :)
<akxwi-dave> oooooh very nice...
<flocculant> never did here back from Mike Sinko
<flocculant> sigh ... s/here/hear
<knome> flocculant, that should say "more than in the 14.04 competition"
<knome> -team can
<flocculant> knome: I thought so - but you has lock and I didn't know if you were doing things or had wandered off for a bit :)
<knome> i released the lock
<knome> i was lying on the other side for a change :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: feeling better ?
<knome> better than last week, yeah...
<flocculant> good :)
<knome> but doing anything leaves me gasping for breath in 5-10 minute
<knome> s
<flocculant> :(
<knome> so not competely ok yet...
<flocculant> that doesn't sound much fun 
<knome> but it's ok on the sofa
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> so re: website permissions
<knome> -team can log in a see everything
<knome> -website can log in and do everything
<flocculant> knome: reworded para 3 a bit 
<flocculant> I did think of adding "We hope you approve" to there :)
<knome> heh
<flocculant> done anyway 
<knome> nice
<flocculant> knome: while you're about - the wiki note is more or less there now - I can make a start on the x.org if you want 
<knome> so anything you need social mediaing and when?
<knome> please do
<flocculant> ack
<knome> i'll chime in later when i'm feeling better
<knome> hopefully starting from tomorrow
<flocculant> yea - was my thought yesterday/today :)
<pavlushka> knome: get well soon, wishes!
<knome> but i can take care of the formatting at least, before thursday
<knome> ta ta
<flocculant> knome: you could tweet 
<flocculant> "We now have images at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/359/builds available for testing." 
<flocculant> os something like that
<flocculant> bumping the facebook/g1 stuff perhaps
<flocculant> not completely sure we see anything from those tbh - never seem to get random 1 off results much on the tracker
<flocculant> back shortly
<knome> flocculant, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/722135416514744320
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<flocculant> really back shortly - got sidetracked with that youtube vid :p
<knome> hahah
<ochosi> yup, saw that vid as well and wanted to reshare it via g+
<flocculant> bluesabre: do I remember correctly - mugshot has camera disabled? 
<flocculant> would check - but waiting till the morning is easier than digging the camera out and having soundcard issues when it's plugged in :p
<Nairwolf> I've tested yesterday, and mugshot has camera enabled
<flocculant> k - thanks :)
<flocculant> knome: draft is up - still needs bits sorting - it's pretty apparent where :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'll look tomorrow then
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> I'll look tomorrow as well I expect 
<flocculant> got one last nasty thing to do with the release note - then just check bug status for some later in the week
<Nairwolf> flocculant: From a VM I can't have access to the webcam, so, in fact, I don't know if camera is disabled on mugshot
<flocculant> yup - thanks Nairwolf 
<flocculant> night all :)
<Nairwolf> good night flocculant ;)
<tsimonq2> Greetings, a user is having a problem with adjusting the brightness on his/her laptop using Lubuntu and claims it works on Xubuntu. What package does Xubuntu use for brightness?
<pleia2> tsimonq2: you want the support channel
<tsimonq2> pleia2: but I'm asking what *package* is used, I thought this would be development, but travelling over to #xubuntu :P :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, Nairwolf, the camera is force disabled in the code, if it's not disabled, you might have mugshot from a ppa
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<bluesabre> morning all
<akxwi-dave> morning
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave: new thunar package in -staging (1.6.10-2ppa2~16.04) which may help with the crashes... after installing, log out or killall Thunar to start fresh
<bluesabre> if this seems to help, we'll try to get this uploaded to the archive this evening
<akxwi-dave> will give it a blast now.. 
<bluesabre> thanks
<akxwi-dave> no crashes so far...
<bluesabre> same here
<bluesabre> this looks promising
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> got it to crash with renaming
<bluesabre> but moving looks safe
<bluesabre> F2 > 1, Enter, F2 > 2, Enter, etc
<bluesabre> does seem to help
<knome> bluesabre, are you using enter as punctuation? :P
<bluesabre> knome: just showing my shortcut for crashing thunar with fast renames
<knome> he missed the joke :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: not going to get much time to look till after work 
<flocculant> but given I hardly ever got it to crash anyway not sure that'd help much - be better if someone who reported crashes - like knome - had a look :p
<knome> let's see if i have the strength
 * flocculant supplies copious amount of tonic 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can get it to not show real filename after mv - reload to show real names
<flocculant> I can get it to show files even after cut and paste
<bluesabre> flocculant, seemingly that was when you might have had a crash, one of the side effects of the "fix" according to ali1234
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I thought things were better with the new Thunar. Did lots of renames with no crashes.
<jjfrv8> But then I created a new file and started renaming it. Now it's crashing regularly again.
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure which changes in glib/gvfs triggered these crashes, but thunar is stable with older versions of them (talked to hjudt about this today IRL)
<PaulW2U> bluesabre: re bug 1512120, after about 50 renames using the latest PPA version I saw thunar crash once
<ubottu> bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashes on file renaming" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512120
<PaulW2U> I'm still seeing the wrong file highlighted after the rename though
<flocculant> PaulW2U: thanks for checking and commenting :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - I suppose the sensible thing to do now would be go back to a stabler version 
<flocculant> ochosi: there is talk in -desktop about naming g-s Ubuntu Software in Unity - but only in Unity seemingly
<flocculant> bluesabre: right finally got a crash doing the same as jjfrv8 - loads of renames - fine, create a new file - renamed it a few times - crash
<flocculant> and then it's easy to create the crash
<Unit193> ...Are they trying to make things inconsistant?
<Unit193> s/a/e/
<flocculant> Unit193: g-s I assume ... who knows
<flocculant> Unit193: question being - if it was last week would we also have preferred u-s over g-s
<Unit193> Well, right now it is 'Software', so why not?
<Unit193> But, seems better than "If you're in Ubuntu, click 'Ubuntu Software', anything else click 'Software'" - "Why is it different?" - "Because."
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> unless it becomes Gnome Software elesewhere
 * flocculant asks if it is staying as Software
<flocculant> staying as Software elsewhere
<flocculant> hello wxl :)
<wxl> thanks flocculant :)
<flocculant> knome: started a pad (xubuntu-small-nuggets) with bits we can show people eg power manager icon - how to change what shows
<Unit193> flocculant: Actually, did you read the g-s changelog?  Looks like there'll be a 'ubuntu-software' package which'll basically be branding.
<flocculant> Unit193: no - was just reading some irc
<Unit193> ..Now I'm a bit peeved.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/2.206 stupid crap.
<flocculant> uefi and snapd 
<Unit193> snapd in core..
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> Unit193: pretty sure they still don't quite *get* core
<Unit193> flocculant: They added it to platform.xenial/desktop, not our seed directly.  We can't fix it.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> well not ok - but ok I understand what you're saying 
<Unit193> I can't blacklist it in core without blacklisting it in desktop too...
<Unit193> Oooh, maybe I can.
<Unit193> flocculant: Tested and it does actually work. \o/
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: got time to double check the wallpaper post? 
<Unit193> Now all I have to do is convince tech lead.
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> flocculant: I doubt I'll be of help, but why not?
<knome> evening
<flocculant> Unit193: ahah
<flocculant> no need now :)
<Unit193> Sounds good.
<flocculant> I was sure we were publishing tonight and I'd looked 
<knome> bah
<knome> i did think about waiting until Unit193 checked it
<flocculant> but not seen knome - so wanted a double check after I'd looked today :)
<flocculant> made two small changes today ... 
<flocculant> and hi knome :)
<knome> looks good to me and made another small change
<knome> s/Great!/Great work!/
<flocculant> yup ok 
<knome> pleia2, social media time! (:
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-wallpaper-competition-winners/ out
<knome> and tweeted
<flocculant> thought you would have named your ones like ochosi did
<knome> nah
<flocculant> now that's all out of the way
<knome> for now
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> release note is all I'm caring about now
<knome> :)
<flocculant> infinity is in UK I think - expecting them to want to get it dusted and done early as possible on Thursday
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but what i took away was that it's not changes in thunar, it's changes in glib/gvfs, so really we'd have to go to an earlier version of that (which we can't)
<ochosi> oh oops, flocculant ^ :)
<knome> i guess that's partly good news..
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<flocculant> well if we can't then we're stuck with a knackered one I suppose
<flocculant> certainly SRU material at that point surely
<flocculant> though afaik the issue happens if you're renaming etc a *lot* 
<flocculant> probably why I don't see it
<ochosi> yeah, dunno, we already received a fair amount of bugreports
<ochosi> so this is likely to increase quite a bit
<ochosi> i guess the only way to fix it is to fix the problem/s in thunar
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<ochosi> which means understanding what changed in glib
<flocculant> I've more chance of walking on the moon ... 
<flocculant> ochosi: but - given the issue - the bug reports are going to be dupes 
<ochosi> well i guess that chances that hjudt will find time to look at this soon are slim (he's in the same "situation" i am in, so a lot less free time and energy)
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> yeah, just saying, people *will* complain
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> I would too :)
<knome> flocculant, what do you mean you "would" complain?
 * knome hides
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> haha
<flocculant> as long as we're up front about it - it's on the wiki notes (that people read when it's too late) is at least on the draft x.org one
<flocculant> knome: :D
<flocculant> s/is/and is
<flocculant> ochosi: if that ^^ situation continues then even more reason to look at thunar alternatives perhaps
<flocculant> I'd rather not - but ... 
<ochosi> yeah, just wondering where that path will lead us
<flocculant> yea
<pleia2> knome: all shared
<knome> pleia2, thanks :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I guess it's a discussion we'll need to start pretty quickly anyway
<Unit193> Right, so as documented what I'm doing with the seed works, but in reality it doesn't. \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: so some sort of works if you don't look to deeply thing :p
<Unit193> So works if you don't expect changes.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> Asked in -devel, waiting for anyone to look. :3
<ochosi> flocculant: not sure whether we really need to rush this
<ochosi> next release is not lts, so we have a few cycles of time to settle on a resolution
<flocculant> ochosi: well no I guess not 
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/m5GeFqwr5UtqElW3xuOY/ did a quick grep of libfm. :P
<flocculant> ochosi: all we can do now is wait - could be it doesn't affect as many people as we think it might
<flocculant> if people decide the patches help we can but try to get it in last gasp :)
<flocculant> might not completely fix the issue, but if it makes it less pronounced then it's got my +1 
<flocculant> anyway - that's enough for Tuesday - night all :)
<flocculant> will no doubt read stuff in teh morning 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i think it will make the issue less pronounced
<ochosi> i mean i'm pretty sure about that
<sidi> ochosi, we need to go for beer some day!
<ochosi> sidi: wat, already in vienna?
<bluesabre> So, thinking yay or nay for the thunar patches?
<ochosi> bluesabre: thinking yay, as that was also my take away from the discussion with ali1234 
<ochosi> but yeah, in the long run those patches won't be good enough
<bluesabre> Alright, I'll test it some more and upload tonight
<ochosi> alrighty, coolio
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<knome> pleia2, did you happen to catch my message about release-specific "marketing packs"?
<pleia2> nope
<knome> let me dig the whole thing up from the backlog
<knome> 16:03  knome: one more thing we could do starting with this cycle is a release-specific "marketing bundle"
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you see the info about ubuntu-software?
<knome> 16:03  knome: that would include screenshots of the release, the wallpaper for the release, community wallpaper winners (if appropriate), also xubuntu logos (to get the new ones circulating more), the release announcement
<knome> pleia2, ^ would also help book-writers
<pleia2> that would be nice
<bluesabre> Unit193, a bit... Anything important for us other than it just showing as "Software" outside of Ubuntu?
<Unit193> In theory just branding, right.
<knome> pleia2, let's see putting on up for 16.04 then
<knome> anyway, time to go to bed
<knome> nighty nighty people
<pleia2> knome: chat tomorrow, I have even less time than normal right now
<knome> pleia2, mhm, i can take care of most of it
<knome> -->
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-20
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> pleia2: need a hand with anything?
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1572400/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1572400 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar crashes when moving files from one window to another" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<flocculant> bluesabre: given that we're not going to replace thunar with something else the day before release - or maybe never - we're going to have to include those patches
<flocculant> if we can't get them in in time for tomorrow - then I think we should seriously consider not releasing on Thursday and getting help making sure we have patched thunar in image before we release
<Unit193> It's in the queue.
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> not that it fixes the problem - just alleviates it a bit 
<flocculant> Unit193: got a link or something? 
<flocculant> only places I know to look are CI and excuses :(
<flocculant> probably cos I don't know enough about packaging ... 
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/254608952/thunar_1.6.10-2ubuntu1_source.changes
<flocculant> mmm - meant something more like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.04.6
<Unit193> It's not accepted yet.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> Unit193: is that lplibrarian thing the one I need to try and chivvy -release with? 
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=thunar ?
<Unit193> 1572400 too?
<dkessel> does anybody else have "mouse cursor often disappears after locking screen" in xenial?
<dkessel> (on hardware, which might matter...)
<knome> dkessel, blinks for me occasionally on intel GPU laptop
<knome> dkessel, and once or twice it has disappeared for the login
<akxwi-dave> nope... did a big test last week on the locking and hibernating on my thinkpad and everything was fine,, (Nvidia gpu)
<knome> never happened to me on the nvidia gpu desktop with proprietary drivers either
<akxwi-dave> although, i did notice last night that my menu icon disappeared once, but re-appear when i hovered over it..  just going thru the bug emails as I'm sure i saw someone report that.. and if so.. gunna check it out
<knome> note: i'm still running both wily, but since the bug is the same, i think the data is relevant
<dkessel> knome: i have it on intel, too. i even needed to switch to vt1 and back multiple times yesterday to get the cursor back.
<knome> mhm
<knome> i don't think i've ever completely lost the cursor on the login screen though
<dkessel> akxwi-dave: that menu icon redraw bug is known.  it was mentioned here one or two days ago i think
<dkessel> knome: no, i only loose it on the desktop, not on the login screen.
<knome> yeah
<knome> i just log out and in
<dkessel> and only since some days....
<knome> hmm, weird
<knome> you're a late adopter of the bug then :P
<akxwi-dave> ahhh.. thats maybe where I saw it then.. wierd thing is I've had xenial installed as main on lappy since december and never had it before
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<akxwi-dave> well Jan actually.. 
<knome> cheater! :)
<akxwi-dave> my hard drive died on it so had to rebuild... took 15.10 and updateed with a early build of xenial... 
<knome> nnope, still a cheater :P
<akxwi-dave> sorry...
<knome> it's ok
<akxwi-dave> i just couldnt help it..
<akxwi-dave> i had to have it asap..
<knome> you can do 100 tests to compensate this
<akxwi-dave> yes boss..
<knome> ;)
<akxwi-dave> but in all seriousness.. it has ran beautifully on the laptop..  hell of a lot better than earlier releases or other distro's
<knome> happy to hear that :)
<knome> ...even if i have no idea why
<akxwi-dave> same here...  
<akxwi-dave> saveing up to get a decent ssd for the lappy..  i have an old 80 gig one that i did some tests on.. from post screen to login in 2 seconds with xenial on ssd
<knome> yep
<knome> i need an SSD for the desktop
<knome> in all seriousness i need a new desktop though
<knome> but an SSD would give me something with a bit less
<knome> and i'm still dreaming of a mini-pc, need to wait for a bit for them to become a bit more powerful
<akxwi-dave> snap.. but until they do a powerful one with gaming quality gpu.. it will be my self build in an Antec 900 case.. 
<knome> i don't exactly need gaming quality GPU, but i'd rather still see something else than an integrated one..
<knome> there's one mini-pc where you can plug in some cards
<akxwi-dave> i also have one of these which are smallish but again intergrated gpu.. its only dual core but reasonably fast..https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lenovo+m73&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=993&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNop_F7ZzMAhUGOhoKHfbqBS0Q_AUIBygC#imgrc=eKkD7YRBvfhD_M%3A
<akxwi-dave> in fact the power brick is almost bigger that the pc
<knome> ah
<akxwi-dave> its a fault i have,, never get rid of old hardware.. you just never know when they coem in handy
<knome> lol
<knome> i used to do that
<knome> well, i still have my old shuttle case with some parts
<knome> too bad the PSU's were so bad on those
<knome> other than that though, i'm pretty much living on actual hardware only
<knome> no need for a rented storage space:P
<akxwi-dave> blast from the past.. :-) i know what you mean.. had one myself until I put 14.04 on it and gave it to a friend to act as a media centre for him.
<flocculant> dkessel: cursor loss after suspend is on rlease note - if it affects just locking guess we need to sya so
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<akxwi-dave> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> hi
<knome> i've been thinking that once i get the new pc, i'll take a plunge and get a new PSU, return some parts from the desktop to that and make it a gaming pc for the living room
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: just popped in - popping right back out again :)
<knome> and by gaming PC i don't mean a powerful rig.. i mean something to play dos games on :P :P
<akxwi-dave> ... I've got old dos floppy images of Elite, Dungeonmaster and Turbo Pascal if you wan em.. :-)
<flocculant> bug 1568604
<ubottu> bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 16.04 beta loses mouse cursor when returning from sleep" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<knome> akxwi-dave, nah, i have my own ;)
<knome> not of those though
<akxwi-dave> lol
<knome> flocculant, i would probably list dropping of gtk themes rather in the "known issues" section :/
<knome> or at least i wouldn't call it a "highlight" of the release
<bluesabre> flocculant: accepted https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.10-2ubuntu1
<bluesabre> 06:12	<bluesabre>	infinity: is there any way we can get https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.10-2ubuntu1 out of proposed before the full respin? :-)
<bluesabre> 06:12	<infinity>	bluesabre: It's on the way.
<bluesabre> flocculant: ^
<flocculant> knome: I assume you're talking about x.org
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> makes me feel a bit better about it :)
<flocculant> knome: I just knocked the x.org draft up from release note - didn't do much else
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess that the existing thunar bugs will get fix release ? in which case we should start a new one to have something for the 'proper' fix later? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I did not mark them to auto-fix since we know they don't
<flocculant> oh cool 
<flocculant> I'll make comments on the release notes about the patches and stuff then
<flocculant> dkessel: but you def have intel? 
<knome> flocculant, yeah, indeed
<dkessel> flocculant: yup. i have intel + nvidia hybrid, but i know that intel is active, and not nvidia
<flocculant> dkessel: cool thanks :)
<flocculant> knome: then yup - not a highlight :D
<knome> figured out and edited the draft a bit
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you could check the thunar note on release note before tomorrow to make sure I'm not lying please :)
<flocculant> knome: cheers :)
 * flocculant has a butchers ... 
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: "ameliorate" -- fancy!
<flocculant> \o/
<bluesabre> flocculant: other than that, looks good
<flocculant> k - I'll do similar on x.org then :)
<flocculant> also changed the cursor lock wording in both
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll leave adding comments to bugs to you :)
<flocculant> bug 1572400 can probably be marked as a dupe of one of the other ones 
<ubottu> bug 1572400 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar crashes when moving files from one window to another" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572400
<flocculant> and thunar update lands here 
<bluesabre> flocculant: will take a look tonight
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - I'll try and be about later tonight ;)
<flocculant> off again now
<Nairwolf> hi ;) I've just seen new wallpapers from the contest ! It's a great choice ;) 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: given that camera's disabled - any need for it on release note? 
<flocculant> also - if you want to use your mugshot/catfish release notes let me know (or change them yourself)
<pavlushka> can I be able to upgrade from beta to final release?
<flocculant> pavlushka: have you not been updating when prompted? 
<pavlushka> flocculant: yes, every time upgrading after updating
<flocculant> then you'll have everything
<pavlushka> flocculant: thanks a lot, I mean a lot!!!! :)
<flocculant> that's ok
<flocculant> better to ask today than tomorrow
<flocculant> tomorrow I'll be grrr about anything that's not about iso and testing ;)
<pavlushka> I am saved then, whew!
<davmor2> flocculant: welcome to my world ;)
<flocculant> davmor2: :)
<pavlushka> Hello davmor2!
<davmor2> hello
<flocculant> davmor2: I don't like saying "I really really don't care" to people much - but will :D
<pavlushka> davmor2: you know I typed the whole nick for you!! ;P
<flocculant> just patiently waiting for this respin now
<flocculant> we had some late landing things - -release were all super stars for us :)
<davmor2> flocculant: well to be fair I think it just dawned on them that the bugs we posted for beta 1 and final beta actually needed fixing, so it's been all hands on deck to get them fixed
<davmor2> flocculant: so pain in the arse yes, but if we weren't so good at doing what we do we wouldn't need all these respins
<flocculant> which one? 
<flocculant> and LTS is always so much worse anyway 
<flocculant> oh buggar ... support for how long? 
<davmor2> flocculant: one upgrade issue fixed, swap space fixed, oem installer fixed, snappy fixed, mokutils fixed (mostly), and the list goes on
<flocculant> oh well oem we don't test - so never much know those issues
<flocculant> though I *do* notice them sometimes
<davmor2> flocculant: pretty important for lts though :)
<flocculant> well for those who claim to make sure it works yes
<davmor2> flocculant: so anyway motto of the story we did good :)
<flocculant> we have had discussions in the past about it - but not sure of the need 
<flocculant> davmor2: for sure :)
<davmor2> flocculant: and users will never know all the trials and tribulations :)
<flocculant> I saw the mokutil fix - checked what I had on our release notes to check progress
<flocculant> davmor2: always the way ;)
<flocculant> and the swap one too 
<Unit193> ...What if I don't care about snappy? :3
<flocculant> s/I/we
<flocculant> :p
<davmor2> Unit193: then we have to beat you repeatedly till you do ;) then don't use it no harm :)
<flocculant> davmor2: except (afaik) it's been forced on our 'hardly anything installs' core thing ;)
<Unit193> davmor2: Actually, to be honest I'm just a bit peeved that it was forced into Core, but yeah don't really plan to.  May poke at it once, buuut. :P
<Nairwolf> swap space fixed ? yeah ! 
<knome> davmor2, but Unit193 has a big polearm in his cave, it hurts if he beats you back!
<davmor2> knome: haha
<davmor2> Unit193, flocculant; so it might prove useful for user within the next two years if people like spotify and steam create and update and maintain their apps as snaps, even if you don't personally like it
<Unit193> Right, which is fine for -desktop.
<flocculant> davmor2: don't get me wrong on snaps 
<flocculant> our core is a really basic setup 
<flocculant> if people want anything - they install it
<flocculant> even a browser
<Unit193> We're just saying "A time and a place", -core doesn't even have a browser or gnome-software. :P
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I'm afraid to tell you that I can't run the option "install xubuntu" from the last final version....
<Nairwolf> I've made "check disk" and it said me there is no errors...
<Nairwolf> I think my usb keys are weird...
<davmor2> Nairwolf: it isn't the final version yet
<flocculant> Nairwolf: what are you talking about? 
<flocculant> the image? 
<Nairwolf> yes, the image
<Nairwolf> xenial final
<flocculant> if so - bunch of stuff going on - waiting on a respin
<flocculant> Nairwolf: so your 'Install Xubuntu' is from the Try/Install dialogue? 
<flocculant> if so yes - drops you to the live desktop 
<Nairwolf> yes, that's right flocculant ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> known issue for 2 daYS AT LEAST
<Nairwolf> so the option "Install Xubuntu" doesn't work ? You need to chose first "Try Xubuntu" and then install
<flocculant> oops
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> Nairwolf: also - that stuff we can't fix - always good to grab an Ubuntu iso and check there if possible
<flocculant> then we can say phew ... Canonical will fix that one :D
<Nairwolf> ok
<Nairwolf> and where I can find known issues ? 
<Nairwolf> if you choose to develop wiki.xubuntu.org, it should be writen here, no ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, depends what you are going to fill it with
<Nairwolf> known issues for example
<knome> don't, we're tracking them in the release notes in the ubuntu wiki
<knome> and on this channel if they are very temporary
<flocculant> Nairwolf: once this cycle is done (assuming the Tech Lead doesn't complain) then next cycle the 'release note' will be a rolling one more or less the whole cycle
<flocculant> so current issues should - unless they are here and gone very quickly - be visible there
<flocculant> knome: talking of wiki.x - made a start on the qa iso page
<knome> nice
<Nairwolf> okay that's nice
<Nairwolf> I've found the page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/FinalRelease/Xubuntu 
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> Nairwolf: next cycle - that will be what the rolling note will look like 
<flocculant> EXCEPT
<Nairwolf> I wanted to say that sometimes, it's not really easy to find what you want ton wiki.ubuntu.com. Maybe you're familiar with this wiki, it's easy, but the search engine isn't really efficient
<flocculant> I am not updating changelog often 
<knome> flocculant, damn, we really either want that menu out of there or make it link to sensible places :D
<knome> (fwiw, i'm completely ok with it being gone too)
<flocculant> menu? 
<Nairwolf> that's ok flocculant for the changelog
<knome> flocculant, the toolbox banner
<flocculant> knome: oh yes
<flocculant> yea - caught up in the end :p
 * Unit193 tries dropping desktop-common from the seed...
<knome> Unit193, make sure it doesn't fall on your toes
<flocculant> knome: I think last time I checked it was only 1 or 2 didn't redirect
<knome> flocculant, ack, but here's why i think we should rather drop it:
<knome> while the release notes are more technical than announcement, it's still mostly a user-facing page; they should be pointed to the most important "start here" pages only (if even those)
<Nairwolf> ok, new iso, I will try again
<knome> we don't want to sidetrack them to old team reports from the release notes :X
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> knome: well easy enough to lose header from notes
<knome> yeah
<knome> one more thing i can (try to) do if you want
<flocculant> and I agree they should be really *just* about what they are 
<knome> is move the xubuntu logo next to the release name
<knome> that would be fancy
<flocculant> knome: move it in FRONT of release name
<flocculant> and
<knome> yep, front indeed :P
<flocculant> move that stanza ABOVE the wiki warning
<knome> ack
<knome> i'll try...
<flocculant> so I don't screw it up in the morning :p
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> lose the banner as well - good with that
<flocculant> knome if you can make the logo link to x.org ...
<flocculant> and extra cookie :D
<knome> mmm
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> a thoughtful mmm :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant: ok, it can be installed easily
<flocculant> from the desktop icon yes
<Nairwolf> no, from the try/install window
<flocculant> Nairwolf: you just said it failed? 
<knome> flocculant, you owe me 2 cookies
<Nairwolf> firstly, I said I failed to install Xerial Final by clicking on "Install Xubuntu"
<knome> ...once the page saves
<Nairwolf> Now, I've succeded
<flocculant> knome: impossible
<Nairwolf> BUT... did you say (you or someone else) that the swap bug was solved ? 
<flocculant> I only offered 1 :D
<knome> flocculant, and done :d
<Nairwolf> Because I've met it again
<knome> oh, you said extra cookie
<flocculant> davmor2: ^^ swap bug met Nairwolf 
<flocculant> knome: bah :|
<knome> :D
<knome> anyway, not sure i copied all the commenty stuff correctly
<knome> you might want to check you are okay with the order
<knome> the logo is that one table line
<knome> ..you'll figure out
<davmor2> flocculant: yes it will be fixed in this iso that has been spun up yet
<flocculant> knome: I will happily get your address and send you 2 cookies - I might send 3 so you can all have 1 each :)
<knome> haha
<flocculant> davmor2: oh yea ... sorry matey 
<knome> you think i'm going to share my hard earned cookies with others?
<flocculant> Nairwolf: we're waiting a respin with some fixes in it - including that one 
<flocculant> knome: yea ofc - sharing is caring ;)
<davmor2> Nairwolf: stop testing the broken iso, there will be a new one later that has all the fixes that were worked on today, those fix most of the issue in the image you currently have :)
<flocculant> davmor2: thanks :)
<Nairwolf> ok, davmor2. Badly, it's too late for me to wait the new build. I will try it tomorrow. 
<Nairwolf> good night guys
<flocculant> Nairwolf: thanks for your help :)
<knome> didn't ochosi say the thunar bugs are likely related to glib changing?
<knome> we could probably mention that, to make people a bit less angry at thunar
 * knome thinks damage management
<Unit193> krytarik: Hah!  Fun times in the seed: http://paste.openstack.org/show/ig8AuYEZofhOjUqYuDmS/ :D
<krytarik> Unit193: LOL - #fail.
<flocculant> knome: you about still?
<knome> yup
<flocculant> can you double check a rapid send mail to -dev please :)
<knome> sure
<flocculant> sent 
<flocculant> it's 1/2/3 I need to ensure
<flocculant> pleia2: you about for a last minute social thing? 
<knome> flocculant, put this in a pad and i'll edit there so you can copy easier
<pleia2> flocculant: if you give me something to copy/paste, yes :)
<knome> we need another active admin for g+/fb
 * knome is not volunteering
 * knome only touches fb with a long pole
<knome> and even then only from the API side
<davmor2> knome: man that is just wrong, I mean at least call him a Tall Pole ;)
<knome> flocculant, too late, http://pad.ubuntu.com/J7xon1C6Yz
<knome> no edits done yet though
<flocculant> oke
<flocculant> pleia2: yup - just writing the thing now ... 
<flocculant> kind of trying to get ahead of -release for a thing or 2 
<knome> sigh linebreaks
<flocculant> knome: just so you know - it was the content of 1 -3 not how it looks : )
<Unit193> krytarik: Feature: no-follow-recommends also seems to be a no-op.
<knome> flocculant, i know but i can't also do anything about wanting it to look good :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> isn't 2) really 1b) ?
<knome> or
<knome> we can put it another way
<flocculant> no - really want people to see things I'm lokking for
<flocculant> a very specific group would see 2
<Unit193> germinate simply isn't flexible enough to do this..
<knome> flocculant, happy with it
<knome> wait
<knome> that one paragraph is still odd
<flocculant> ....
<knome> ok, goof
<knome> hhh
<knome> good
<knome> if you sent, was no biggie :P
<flocculant> pleia2 knome - late social shouts > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-April/011133.html
<flocculant> frankly - don't care what text you use - but "really urgent last call" in the title works :)
<flocculant> thanks and apologies pleia2 :)
<knome> and tweeted
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/722899426050596869
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<knome> np
<flocculant> can't we just support Xubuntu for 1 day? 
<knome> hah
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> my only real issue now is making sure we can SRU thunar fixes
<flocculant> if we can't then it makes a mockery of LTS
<knome> why couldn'y we?
<knome> t too
<flocculant> *opinion*
<bluesabre> We definitely can
<flocculant> bluesabre: hey :)
<knome> *onion*
<bluesabre> Yay
<flocculant> bluesabre: I thought we could - just making QA position completely clear *before* I end up ticking yes :D
<knome> hoora
<knome> +y
<flocculant> bluesabre: and you should get mrsBluesabre to read -offtopic :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: Qa getting excuses in early 
<bluesabre> bbiab
<flocculant> bluesabre: or http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?s=xubuntu 
<flocculant> check out the image ;)
<pleia2> posted
<flocculant> pleia2: awesome - thanks :)
<knome> bbluesabiabre
<pleia2> the My Nut squirrel is my new desktop image <3
<pleia2> knome: if you're still logged in, want to retweet this? https://twitter.com/omgubuntu/status/722722043771297793
<knome> pleia2, done
<pleia2> ty
<flocculant> pleia2: I like the "My Nut by bluesabreWife is the best" especially when " doesn't represent my current work2 -offtopic comment :)
<knome> flocculant, she should know better nuts are always fashionable :d
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> at least for 49.9999999999% of the population :)
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> back now
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Is it worth it to try and get them to move bluez and snapd out of desktop-common?
<bluesabre> Unit193: could be
<flocculant> welcome back bluesabre - I actually appear to be smiling now - cat run off
<flocculant> I'd +1 moving bluetooth out
<Unit193> Maybe if we can get Lubuntu on board too. :P
<flocculant> if I've got to installl a browser - why would I want that
<flocculant> Unit193: maybe Mate too
<Unit193> Mate wants snapd at least.
<flocculant> they're looking at a core thing too
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> bit ambivalent there
<flocculant> maybe snapd is useful in core
<flocculant> install 'a thing' alone - not loads of 'fluff' 
<flocculant> *shrug*
 * flocculant could of course have the wrong idea on snap and be takne in by adverts
<flocculant> knome: added last para
<flocculant> !team | assume smoketesting is all cool - please test thunar for us, thanks :) 
<ubottu> assume smoketesting is all cool - please test thunar for us, thanks :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
 * genii cheers
 * flocculant joins in  cos something built :)
<bluesabre> huzzah!
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I WILL chek
<bluesabre> flocculant is starting the release festivities early
 * flocculant is starting the QA can't do sod all now festivities now thing
<flocculant> blaming 
<flocculant> ummm ... 
<flocculant> website \o/
<bluesabre> safe target
<flocculant> yup
<knome> :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: anyway - quilck look at wiki note please, change catfish/mugshot if you want - off now
<bluesabre> flocculant: will do
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - sleep for me 
<bluesabre> nighty
<flocculant> bluesabre- ochosi I know that when -release start shouting for acks it's going to be me who has to trigger it
<flocculant> so can I please have either a +1 or -1 from bluesabre AND ochosi before I  do that :)
<flocculant> I'm pretty much +/-0 atm :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi ha - see - release now lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: we're about 5 hours ahead here
<bluesabre> I'm always a few hours behind ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm cool to tick the box if needed as long as I have an ack from one of you or ochosi 
<bluesabre> will be sure to at least say go for it
<flocculant> ok cool
<flocculant> bluesabre: so whoever see's t the request I guess - does it :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<slickymaster> flocculant, are the images on the tracker the ones you want tested?
<krytarik> slickymaster: Yep.
<slickymaster> ok, just going to download them and hit the bed
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-21
<bluesabre> knome: gotcha some fresh screenshots, tried to stay mostly true to our current screenshots https://imgur.com/a/g3m2H
<bluesabre> flocculant: more than content with catfish/mugshot on the release notes
<bluesabre> knome: more screenshots https://imgur.com/a/mSWgn
<bluesabre> so tired
<bluesabre> night all
<pavlushka> night bluesabre !
<palasso> hello I will spin up 7 DigitalOcean droplets (all the cities DO has servers) to seed. Are the torrents ready?
<flocculant> palasso: no - nothing is released yet
<palasso> ok ty
<akxwi-dave> unbelievable...  finally got my first Thunar crash for the move bug....
<Unit193> After thunar was uploaded, no? :P
<akxwi-dave> yep.. with todays iso...  Just a quick thought.. all the tests I have done previous was with the view in icon mode.. no crashes.. this time I had detailed mode on and it crashed after 5 moves.
<bluesabre> seems possible, this patch only applies to one of the views http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=77cf6ec3a3969589a4e9a8beea6a122b7dbcc2a0
<akxwi-dave> hmm just done 50 moves in icon view no crash
<bluesabre> it's pretty likely the bug is not caused by changes to gio/gvfs but rather revealed by them like in the case above
<akxwi-dave> i think my crash may have just been one of those things....  done 150 move in both views now and no crashes]
<ochosi> g'day eveyone
<akxwi-dave> morning
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<ochosi> hey bluesabre! what's the status on the backlog (thunar, -release)?
<ochosi> sorry, wasn't around and just started to read the backlog now
<bluesabre> thunar with 2 patches was uploaded Monday/Tuesday, release not happened yet
<bluesabre> er
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> T/W
<bluesabre> trying to squeeze some final tests this morning
<akxwi-dave> i offically hate drag and dropping now...
<akxwi-dave> just done 1000 moves and no crashes.. 
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> so the crashing is definitely better with the two patches, no?
<bluesabre> should be
<akxwi-dave> I would put the one I had down to just a normal crash.. as from what i read once you get one of the crashes it happens regulary
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave didn't have the crashes before as I understand it
<ochosi> a-ha
<akxwi-dave> thats correct.. no crashes before
<ochosi> so i guess it's somehow related to the cache
<akxwi-dave> i can also confirm that the list out of order and the rename bugs haven't affected me either
<akxwi-dave> would you like me to put the thunar crash as a bug on the daily or pass it.. as I cant get it to replicate?
<akxwi-dave> put it as a pass for now
<bluesabre> if you'd like, you can put it on the daily with a pass, you can add a note that it can't be reproduced
<akxwi-dave> :-) exactly what i have done...
<akxwi-dave> lunch time bbl
<bluesabre> I think we should be good for release
<ochosi> (y)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - sounds good to me
<flocculant> had more or less no time this morning 
<flocculant> marked them
<bluesabre> flocculant: great, thanks
<flocculant> wasn't the best of mornings here - minor child implosion :p
<bluesabre> those happen
<flocculant> indeed
<akxwi-dave> and it don't get better when they grow up..
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> this is the last one :)
<akxwi-dave> you hope..!!
<flocculant> back later 
<knome> added release art to announcement
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3932&preview=true
<akxwi-dave> looking good.
<sidi> Anyone here who knows how to build OEM ISOs for Xub?
<sidi> with custom PPAs / installed packages
 * knome guesses sidi will know in a few weeks
<knome> ask him
<sidi> knome, I deeply resent that you exist.
<sidi> :p
 * knome bows
<Hoscko> Hello everyone !
<sidi> Hi Hoscko 
<sidi> Can I just say this was a serious question though, knome? I could really use some expertise :p
<sidi> and I promise I won't steal all your users with my Xubuntu fork :p
<flocculant> hi sidi 
<flocculant> no - don't ask - I have no idea :p
<flocculant> afternoon knome 
<flocculant> knome: we want to advertise the x.org on announce again or wiki release? 
<flocculant> assuming first - url https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-release ?
<flocculant> another pointless addition of hundred papercuts to a bug 1562305
<ubottu> bug 1562305 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Tooltip for Rubbish Bin displays "Wastebasket ..." instead of "Rubbish Bin ..."" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1562305
<knome> flocculant, url is correct and x.org please
<knome> sidi, you can... :P
<knome> i have page updates ready waiting for the release too
<flocculant> knome: seem to be waiting on announce - looks like cdimage is there
<knome> ack
<pleia2> hey hey, release!
<pleia2> congrats all :)
<knome> yep
<knome> congrats to you too
<knome> starting the website tasks now
<pleia2> I'm available-ish for the next hour for things, working on fridge first though
<knome> first of all, https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-release/ is out
<flocculant> seems I woke up just too late then :p
<flocculant> thanks everyone 
<knome> front page widget is updated
<knome> hmm
<knome> sans title
<knome> :P
<knome> that's done too
<bluesabre> Great work everyone!
<knome> support page updated
<bluesabre> (bbl)
<knome> download page updated
<knome> tweeted
<knome> screenshots page updated
<pleia2> sorted fridge for ubuntu itself, doing g+/fb now
<knome> hmm also
<knome> i typoed the tweet
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> fixed that...
<flocculant> xenial will forever be known as the first Xubutnu release :p
<knome> pics or it didn't happen..
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/aHbdA85.png
<knome> liar!
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> knome: not sure where the list to do stuff lives (did once ...) but I assume that it has docs.xubuntu on it somewhere 
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/processes.html#processes-website-updates
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> ok - so not done yet then - just checking :)
<knome> yep, not done
<knome> but i just logged in to the dev server...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: you get to do first y cycle meeting then - bet you'd forgotten :p
<knome> indeed :P
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> ok, dev.xubuntu.org now visibly tracks the y cycle
<pleia2> eep, actually my first meeting is in 20 mintes
<pleia2> knome: how are our docs looking? any changes in creation?
<knome> that's fine, i'm working on taking care of docs.
<pleia2> :D
<knome> ok, docs updated
<knome> not contributor though
<knome> yet
<flocculant> first dupe bug winner goes to ... 
<flocculant> cursor missing after unlock 
<PaulW2U> flocculant: and they'll be many more...
<flocculant> PaulW2U: for sure :)
<flocculant> PaulW2U: thanks for your help testing and confirming issues for us - much appreciated :)
<PaulW2U> np, wish I could have done more but....16.10 who knows what might happen?
<flocculant> :)
<knome> updating contributor docs
 * brontide peers over at transmission... 8.5GB uploaded.
<knome> ok, contributor docs updated from the y-series branch too
<knome> anything else?
<flocculant> not that I'm aware of
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> np
<knome> i'll be back later if there's something else that might need my attention
<knome> congrats everybody - again, i think this was the best xubuntu release so far
<brontide> installed beta2 yesterday.  Besides a upgrade and dist-upgrade is there anything else I need to do?
<flocculant> brontide: no - except next time remember not to do that ;)
<knome> (this isn't referring to brontide specifically...) people are all over "cutting edge" stuff, then they whine when something breaks
 * flocculant will be making a concerted effort next cycle to not call milestones milestones and to remember to not blog about them either
<knome> start calling them kilometerstones!
 * flocculant shall also make a concerted effort to not have anything but b2 as well :)
<brontide> :-P I've been doing linux since the pre-1.0 kernel days...
<flocculant> I really don't think we gain anything from it
<knome> brontide, and you still need to ask how you get to the final release from beta2? :P
<brontide> New to ubuntu, generally a RH/yum distro ( professional )
<brontide> But I do have a bug.
<flocculant> brontide: then you'll understand that the milestones are out of date almost immediately - if you'd asked me yesterday I would have said install from the rc image
<flocculant> brontide: mmm
<brontide> Dell Lattitude E6500 Intel GM45 chipset.  Lock the screen and then unlock and cursor is MIA, you can see the effects of mouse but not the cursor itself.
<flocculant> brontide: I really wish that people would read release notes ;)
<flocculant> bug 1568604
<ubottu> bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<brontide> My bad... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604
<flocculant> :)
 * brontide puts on the dunce hat and sits in the corner
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> now it's proven playing with linux since pre-1.0 kernel days doesn't teach you to read
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> brontide: as penance you have to start testing the y cycle asap :)
<flocculant> right - I'm off for a while now
<flocculant> brontide: nice to meet you :)
<brontide> It's a beautiful day here, hope it's as nice for all of you
<brontide> Chatting while I'm ignoring a useless skype meeting
<flocculant> it's not raining 
<knome> indeed, i'm off as well
<knome> hf all
<Nairwolf> hi everyone ;)
<Nairwolf> congratulations for this release ;)
<Nairwolf> I come back from my work, and I've started to seed 16.04 releases (ubuntu, xubuntu, and lubuntu). After eating, I should be around here. 
<pavlushka> Hi Nairwolf !
<pavlushka> Congratulations to you too.
<flocculant> knome: changed get xubuntu page - link to release announcment 
<mexchip> just wanted to say congratulations for the release and a big THANK YOU for all of your effort
<mexchip> I'll be upgrading my systems this weekend
<mexchip> (from 14.04)
<flocculant> in case anyone see's issues in #xubuntu, software fails to install some packages - at least chrome - attente is now aware and can reproduce it 
<flocculant> bbl 
<knome> flocculant, ah, thanks
<slickymaster> knome, noticed you already set up the Y blueprint for docs
<knome> y-ep
<knome> why wait? :P
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> I set up the z qa blueprint as well 
<slickymaster> saw that too, flocculant 
<slickymaster> ;)
<flocculant> slickymaster: you saw the y one ;)
<slickymaster> yes
<flocculant> [21:25:33] <flocculant> I set up the z qa blueprint as well 
<flocculant> [21:25:51] <slickymaster> saw that too, flocculant 
<slickymaster> hard to keep a conversation here and with my mother on the phone at the same time :P
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> hard to keep up with them at the best of times :p
<slickymaster> I just read the beginning and the end of your sentence and assumed you were talking about Y
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> knome: did you see http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-small-nuggets 
<knome> slickymaster, the solution is to NOT listen to your mom
<knome> i saw the url :P
<knome> flocculant, there's no way that could be more confusing
<slickymaster> nah
<slickymaster> knome: 
<flocculant> knome: which and what 
<knome> slickymaster, your recent driving history reminds us you didn't think what she said anyway, so it doesn't really matter if you hear it...
<knome> flocculant, the pad content :D
<slickymaster> lol
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> almost an year now
<knome> a knome doesn't forget
<flocculant> knome: I could some stranglish quickly enough to make it more confusing :)
<knome> flocculant, anyway.. since i'm pretty sure this is related to an article series, i'm happy with somebody creating some content
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> night all
<slickymaster> have a good one flocculant 
<Noskcaj> Is anyone working on weather-plugin 0.8.7? It looks like we may have to SRU it
<bluesabre> Not I
<knome> "have to"?
<Noskcaj> knome, is "want to" better?
<knome> indeed, but still maybe not accurate :)
<ochosi> happy release day everyone
<ochosi> sorry, had to babysit tonight
<ochosi> and now i'm exhausted, gotta get some rest...
<ochosi> well done everyone!
<ochosi> !team
<ubottu> akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<slickymaster> the rest of the warrior
<bluesabre> Have a good night ochosi
<knome> :)
<AuroraAvenue_> knome, how do I push text from my terminal to ubuntu paste ?
<AuroraAvenue_> i.e. paste.ubuntu.com
<Unit193> pastebinit
<AuroraAvenue_> yeah, I'd kinda like to know how, thou.
<Unit193> grep foo /var/log/syslog | pastebinit
<AuroraAvenue_> it's seized up doing that.
<AuroraAvenue_> Unit193: As I said that doesn't do much. http://imgur.com/pQF2Gmi
<knome> first of all, you're mistyping the command; second, that was just an example.
<pleia2> note the space between foo and /var... ;)
<pleia2> it's hanging because grep isn't returning
<pleia2> but as knome says, "grep foo /var/log/syslog" is just an example of the output of a command you want to put in the pastebin
<knome> and ultimately, this is the channel for development discussion...
<AuroraAvenue_> fine I'll go then, see ya.
 * knome shrugs
<knome> pleia2, i know you are busy, but we need to sit down some day with marketing stuff
<knome> anyway, i'm off to bed now, so you can stop worrying until tomorrow ;)
<pleia2> knome: after May 9th
<pleia2> have conference and book deadlines until then
<knome> yeah...
<pleia2> knome: good night :)
<knome> nighty, and thanks & congratulations to you too for the release :)
<knome> -->
<Unit193> krytarik: ...magnet:?xt=urn:btih:161e498e099bc04f0286578df3804f20085e4002&tr=udp://tracker.unit193.net:6969&tr=udp://tracker.coppersurfer.tk:6969 ? :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-22
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: http://ubottu.com/y/yy | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<bluesabre> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1496
<flocculant> bluesabre: you preferred alleviate then :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: your word was much too rich for my vocabulary
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<flocculant> I guess we should let people know about the gpg sig thing somehow
<Nairwolf> hi ;) Have you some feedback about 16.04 ? 
<Nairwolf> What's next ? How can I be more involved ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: involved in what? 
<flocculant> not much will be going on for a bit 
<flocculant> if you want to be more involved in testing things - then I can help with that
<Nairwolf> I would like to be more involved in development (and I think I will send soon an email to bluesabre about that), but today, I would like to know what would be the next things to do for Xubuntu
<flocculant> for xubuntu today - nothing :)
<Nairwolf> ok, but, I know usually soon after a release they are an Ubuntu summit with a lot of talks. Do you know when it is ? 
<flocculant> beginning of May I think
<flocculant> don't much notice that tbh - we don't participate there
<Nairwolf> yes, but that was like that I was informed about the snappy package when it was announced some time ago
<flocculant> mmm
<Nairwolf> it interesting some times to hear what would be the future for Ubuntu and others flavours
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> 3rd to 5th May 
<Nairwolf> Thanks ;)
<Nairwolf> So when you will need to do new testing ?
<flocculant> Nairwolf: when there's something to test
<Nairwolf> ok
<Nairwolf> and are you planning some meetings with the Xubuntu team ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: they will be planned yes
<flocculant> Nairwolf: not sure how we'll work QA this cycle just yet
<flocculant> might not use package tracker
<Nairwolf> oh, why ? 
<flocculant> might try and push using dev ppa's with xenial for longer
<flocculant> might do all sorts of things
<flocculant> we do that more for LTS than other versions
<flocculant> anyway - all undecided at the moment
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> hang about - check the mailing list :)
<Nairwolf> I think it would be more efficient to know 'when' we can make package test. I suppose if there is a dev ppa, we can know when there is a new package version, and then report tests on bugtracker. 
<flocculant> well 
<Nairwolf> Maybe I wrong, but for this release, I thought there are several test report with different package version. 
<flocculant> that's exploratory testing - fancy name for using dev versions all the time
<flocculant> anyway - been a long few days - not thinking about it currently :)
<knome> if we knew when new package versions are released we'd be magicians
<Nairwolf> yes, you should be tired. 
<flocculant> hi knome 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<Nairwolf> knome: my english is so bad... I didn't want to say that like that ! 
<Nairwolf> I wanted to say in this order : You see a new update of Orage for example, or Thunar, and you go report your tests on the bug tracker. 
<knome> but that's what you can do already
<knome> by doing scheduled package testing sprints, we aren't encouraging anybody from testing those packages outside the sprints
<knome> we are just making sure everything gets tested at all
<Nairwolf> yes, but on http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/ you can't distinguish the version which is be tested
<knome> no, but why should you?
<Nairwolf> Maybe there is something I don't understand.... Look this page : http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases/1559/results
<Nairwolf> It's bug report for Catfish
<knome> testcase, you mean
<Nairwolf> But it's really difficult to to know if the first test report is for the same software version of the last test report
<Nairwolf> (yes, testcase, sorry)
<knome> explain me why that is important?
<Nairwolf> At the beginning, just after a new release like 16.04, imagine a bug has been found on Catfish. Some testers report it on a testcase like that. 
<Nairwolf> Few months later, the bug is solved and corrected. It's really instersting to test catfish right now (in order to know if the bug is still present). 
<Nairwolf> some testers say "ok, the bug is solved, I can't reproduce the bug anymore, great job developpers ;)". But few days later, someone like me (probably a little bit stupid) who hasn't updated catfish could report the same bug already solved
<Nairwolf> I hope it's clear...
<knome> well, the last part isn't
<knome> i mean i don't understand how it's a problem that the tracker doesn't show the version number
<Nairwolf> oh, you right, this testcase is supposed to be used with the daily build, right ? 
<knome> indeed
<Nairwolf> ok, I see
<knome> what the tracker could actually do (ping flocculant) is to show a different icon for bugs that are "fix released"
<knome> that would likely make it easier to browse the bugs that are supposed to happen still
<Nairwolf> in this case, it would be interesting to be informed that there is a new version of package X and testers could be more focused on this package
<Nairwolf> yes, you right knome ;)
<knome> i agree that "new versions" aren't very visibly listed anywhere, but i think flocculant is doing a pretty good job of mentioning about worthwhile new versions
<knome> it's not like it happens all the time and it slips from the team
<knome> we usually have a good idea about new major versions, and they are communicated on the mailing list too
<flocculant> knome: the tracker(s) do have a different colour for fixed bugs
<knome> right...
<knome> wasn't that critical/non-critical before?
<Nairwolf> Oh, yes, I think flocculant is doing a good job, and I didn't want to critize him
<flocculant> knome: slightly different issue there - doesn't matter *where* on any tracker a bug is listed - if it is Fixed, it's Gold(ish)
<knome> ok
<flocculant> both obviously
<knome> :)
<flocculant> all that aside - I'm not convinced yet that we'll be using package this cycle
<knome> ackety ack
<flocculant> if this cycle follows others then participation will be loooooow
<flocculant> if it turns out it's not - we can boot package tracker up 
<knome> especially as it's lts+1..
<flocculant> yup
<knome> you mean yuppety yup?
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> frankly I think between now and the .04.1 and wherever we are with 16.10 - thunar will get the lion's share of testing ;)
<Nairwolf> flocculant: why are you saying that participation will be looooooooow ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: because it's lts +1 
<flocculant> experience tells us that testing wise - participation is low :)
<Nairwolf> oh, I see. 
<Nairwolf> And how have you found partitipation for this lts in comparaison for last lts ? 
<flocculant> lower
<flocculant> but run slightly differently
<Nairwolf> oh really ? 
<flocculant> yep - really
<knome> !yup
<ubottu> yakkety yak, ackety ack, yuppety yup
<knome> perfect
<Unit193> knome: Troll. :P
<flocculant> that's going to get old pretty quickly :p
<knome> Unit193, no, yak
<knome> flocculant, the secret is to only call it once in a while
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: You didn't jump to yukkety, right?
<flocculant> Description:	Ubuntu Yakkety Yak (development branch)
<Unit193> !info base-files
<ubottu> base-files (source: base-files): Debian base system miscellaneous files. In component main, is required. Version 9.6ubuntu1 (yakkety), package size 67 kB, installed size 310 kB
<flocculant> not that it's much yet :)
<knome> only 310 kB of yak
<flocculant> definitely no steak on the body 
<flocculant> btw - the basic of where I am with my thinking is at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle if anyone is interested
<flocculant> bluesabre: especially perhaps you :)
<knome> :D
<Unit193> slickymaster: A reminder to bump the docs.
 * flocculant refuses user docs existence this cycle :p
 * slickymaster is having dinner at the moment.
<knome> slickymaster, you fat boy :P
<slickymaster> thanks for leaving your message, we'll get back to you as soon as possibel
<flocculant> knome: can't remember if I said this last night - or even before but ... 
<knome> flocculant, yes? :)
<slickymaster> not I'm not
<flocculant> in #xubuntu would it not be better to actually have the release note in the topic rather than the x.org thing? 
<knome> flocculant, but the x.org thing is more user-facing
<flocculant> knome: but the release note is more supporty :)
<knome> then it's wrongy :(
<flocculant> anyway
<flocculant> said it now
<knome> yeah
<knome> and heard
<flocculant> shall forget it now :)
<knome> lol
<knome> wfm
 * flocculant can't decide whether to put xubuntu on the little tv box and install znc on it or not
<knome> :D
<knome> why not?
<Unit193> ZNC doesn't need xorg!
<flocculant> Unit193: it might not - but it serves the tv too 
<flocculant> openelec atm
<Unit193> Kodi!
<flocculant> is what it runs yes
<flocculant> quite nice for what it is actually
<slickymaster> knome, did you forget https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/fixlink/+merge/291795
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> likely so
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> do you want me to review it or will you?
<knome> if you are motivated to merge it now, feel free to
<slickymaster> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: See the weather update?
<Unit193> xenial still. :3
<pjotr> Thanks for a job well done: Xubuntu 16.04 is great! Xenial Xerus at its best. :-)
<pjotr> Incredible what you guys have been able to achieve with such a small dev crew. Hats off!
<slickymaster> !team | Yakkety Yak new docs branch created and the development focus changed to the new branch
<ubottu> Yakkety Yak new docs branch created and the development focus changed to the new branch: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193, krytarik, dkessel, just as a heads up I've also set the vivid series as obsolete as vivid is EOL since February
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 19 updates, showing the latest 3
<flocculant> slickymaster: acketty ack
<slickymaster> what, no 'yyy's ?!
<slickymaster> ;)
<flocculant> not when just acking :p
<slickymaster> heh
 * flocculant must have been tired after the hard work of doing nothing this morning - dropped off to sleep at ~1 
<flocculant> knome: something's up at docs.x.org > http://i.imgur.com/fvIqrq4.png
<pleia2> flocculant: fixed
<flocculant> pleia2: awesome :)
<flocculant> thanks :)
<pleia2> just a mixup with the symlinks (docroot libs-common was pointing at itself)
<flocculant> I can understand - I do that :)
<knome> slickymaster, there was a y-series branch already
<knome> slickymaster, now you need to merge that to your branch :P
<slickymaster> hi knome 
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> ..as you noticed i see
<knome> hello slickymaster flocculant 
<slickymaster> yes, but I just saw the y-series after
 * knome tries to remember slickymaster works with the "do first, think then" philosophy
<knome> ;)=
<slickymaster> that wasn't quite the issue here knome 
<slickymaster> tbh I wasn't aware of the existence of the y-series branch
<knome> :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: don't forget to dig into http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle 
<akxwi-dave> will do bud
<pleia2> knome: updated /producs with the new usb drive, but I can't figure out how to do the front page
<pleia2> (fortunately they redirect on their end, but it still would be nice to update it)
<knome> want a walkthrough or just me to do it?
<knome> well basically, apperance -> widgets -> in this case the widget is under "front page 1"
<knome> but i updated
<pleia2> knome: now I know! thank you :)
<knome> np
#xubuntu-devel 2016-04-24
<Nairwolf> Hi ;) I'm gonna install Xubuntu 16.04 in my personal laptop right now ;) See you later ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: while you're still XPL can you renew me in release team before it causes tracker issues for me please :)
<flocculant> unless
<flocculant> !team | if anyone wants to do QA instead of me - shout out :)
<ubottu> if anyone wants to do QA instead of me - shout out :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<knome> indeed, XPL stuffz
<knome> flocculant, any date when you'd at latest want the first meeting?
<knome> ochosi, my turn to schedule next meeting, but would probably be good to coordinate it so that you can be around, so ping me with your available dates
<knome> ochosi, (and times)
<flocculant> knome: well couple of things we need to get sorted out as soon as we can = millstones and package testing or not
<flocculant> though the last is more bluesabre and me I guess
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> but still should be discussed by team
<knome> i'd say put up a thread for the milestone participation on the mailing list
<flocculant> could do 
<knome> also for archiving purposes and something to point people to if they ask
<flocculant> true
<knome> i think it's a question between 1/2 betas anyway
<flocculant> especially given my position now :D
<knome> and i think the team has been historically bending towards 1 beta with non-LTS stuff
<flocculant> knome: oh btw - that nugget thing - not actually live - think I saw that only with a ppa version of xfpm :)
<flocculant> well - we've always done the betas iirc
<knome> so no nuggets for the users :P
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> well some - you might want to be aware of these things with gnome software
<flocculant> " "
<flocculant> mail sent
<flocculant> biab
<knome> lol
<knome> and replied
<knome> going some shopping next
<knome> and then visit mum
<knome> so will be afk'ish the rest of the evening before night
<knome> might pop in as knome-tracker though :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> cya later 
<knome> yup, hf
<knome> -->
<Nairwolf> hi guys ;) I think I shouldn't say that here, but could you explain me this bug please : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1366546 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1366546 in shim (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu doesn't provide \EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI for UEFI systems" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Nairwolf> I'm using a laptop with efi, and for 14.04 I've created a /boot/efi partition, and it worked fine. 
<Nairwolf> Do you think I should do the same thing ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: not a clue - and you should #xubuntu or #ubuntu for support :)
<Nairwolf> Thanks flocculant ;)
<flocculant> oh you did :p
<Nairwolf> yes, at #ubuntu, more people should answer me
<flocculant> we haz dailies
<Nairwolf> Yes ! I'm now on Xubuntu 16.04 ;)
<flocculant> Release:	16.10
<Nairwolf> oh, really ? 
 * flocculant is 
<Nairwolf> how do you that ? You just boot on a 16.10 daily iso and then update it ? 
<flocculant> no - I change sources 
<Nairwolf> oh, yes ;)
<Nairwolf> 16.10 and 16.04 aren't too much different right now, I think
<flocculant> Nairwolf: nope not yet :)
<Nairwolf> now, it's time to put back all my precious data from my hdd to my computer
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant: hey there! i renewed our membership in -release until 2016-10-30
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
<ochosi> hey there Unit193 
<ochosi> what's up?
<knome> everything that's not down..
<ochosi> oook, guess i should've seen that coming
<ochosi> anyway, it's been a full weekend, gotta get some sleep before i gotta get up for work again
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-17
<flocculant> so this is odd - zesty vm - add gtk3 ppa and it doesn't reach desktop \o/
<stevehope> could anyone give me the link to report an issue with 17.04, re software store, not installing google chrome, workaround, install GDebi Package installer, or manually added key and ppa, from mentions on  askubuntu this is having a wide impact
<stevehope> * downloading Linux 64 .deb file from google
<stevehope> * seems to be impacting all 17.04 releases
<flocculant> stevehope: known issue bug 1672424
<ubottu> bug 1672424 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Zesty) "Cannot install Debian files outside of the repositories" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1672424
<stevehope> ok thanks :) I've been out of the loop a few days
<flocculant> :)
<stevehope> suggests the addition of one non ubuntu deb install, to ISO testcases 
<stevehope> *Live ISO
<stevehope> or would that be more appropriate to test it at package level?
<flocculant> package level imo
<flocculant> and luckily because it's that gnome thing - nothing to do with us - we just seed it
<flocculant> I guess something that should get autotested
<stevehope> :P
<flocculant> especially given the numbers available for testing, we've got some - ubuntu has all the infrastructure and as many people as get told to test things :)
<stevehope> I'm a don't let errors pass silently, unless deliberately suppressed, person, which tends to make unpopular with the upstream lol
<flocculant> luckily upstream in this case is nothing to do with us :)
<flocculant> the first thing to think is, am I really likely to be the first person to see this? if not likely - check on launchpad :)
<flocculant> or in my case - check a different install of xx.xx ... usually broken something 
<stevehope> i was still thinking on how to approach it, as chrome specific, or if it was a borader problem with all external deb handling
<flocculant> pretty sure this is an old issue
<flocculant> I don't use the software 
<stevehope> was not present in pre ISO, i just installed 17.04 on my main computer in clean install (thve the pre 17.04 Xubuntu did not have this issue
<stevehope> at least least I did not encounter it a few weeks ago installing  Xubuntu daily, and downloading the .deb from google, it changed in a respin
<stevehope> my Canadian super-power, is I can get American Netfix, firefox - netfilx drm do not like each other
<flocculant> yea I think some gnome thing got uploaded
<flocculant> wasn't taking a whole lot of notice though
<flocculant> bbl maybe
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-18
<Spass> Hello. Is something wrong with http://docs.xubuntu.org/ ? It redirects me to https://xubuntu.org/help/
<Unit193> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1704/  well it's supposed to have a link to here, not be recursive.
<Spass> So you always recommend newest release documentation for users? No need for choice between regular and LTS?
<Unit193> Incorrect, I gave an example.  The page is supposed to dynamically link to $current and $lts.
<Spass> OK, I understand. I'm asking because I want to put a link to Xubuntu Documentation on my website/project.
<flocculant> knome: ^^ you broke it :p
<ochosi> flocculant: quick question, do you have a gtk2 panel around?
<ochosi> (i'd need a screenshot of the panel separator set to "dots" style)
<flocculant> ochosi: I can boot a vm up pretty quick if that's sufficient?
<ochosi> absolutely
<flocculant> 16.04 or 16.10 ?
<ochosi> trying to recreate it with cairo (currently the feature is not there in gtk3)
<ochosi> whatever you prefer, it's the same
<ochosi> ideally take the screenshots with either greybird or adwaita
<flocculant> k - booting now
<ochosi> awesome thanks!
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/czP8CE4.png
<flocculant> it's a bit less opaque cos I couldn't see it with the screenshot tool :p
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^
<flocculant> and greybird obv
<ochosi> could you set the opacity to 100% though?
<ochosi> ah, nvm
<ochosi> should be ok
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/unVRzi7.png if it isn't :)
<ochosi> do the dots scale if you make the panel taller?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<flocculant> you want 128px screenshot?
<ochosi> i was afraid they would :/
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> a 48px one would be enough ;)
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/XHYw6YT.png 48px then
<flocculant> 128px is too many dots for me to count this early in the morning ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> thanks!
<flocculant> np
<Spass> I'm thinking about creating a website for Polish Xubuntu community, nothing big, but I think that's a good way to spend some free time. What do you think about version alpha? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7aE9UVzdIdFd1bzA
<Unit193> knome: â Website stuff.
<Spass> knome: I'm afraid that my "custom" logo colours will be a problem with trademark... Or not?
<knome> Spass, yes, please do not use the inverted colors
<knome> Spass, or if you really really really insist, then make the inside transparent, eg. the same color as the header bar
<Spass> knome: Done.
<knome> thanks
<knome> and feel free to ask about further questions if any
<Unit193> knome: See also: Docs scrollback.
<knome> Unit193, oh yeah, i didn't :)
<knome> the link to the main site from the root is intentional
<knome> we don't want to maintain two pages with essentially the same information
<knome> eg. the old docs root and /help
<knome> (especially now that the latter is automated by the website...)
<Unit193> knome: Right, but where does it link to, say, 1704?  The only link I see forwards back to that very same page.
<knome> oh.
<knome> that's a bug
<knome> let me go fix it.
<knome> theeeere we go.
<knome> the release bit is on for the supported releases
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  Thunar patch.. installed and patched..  working fine here
<akxwi-dave> although the script didn't work for me.  so just read what you had put and typed the script in manually to get it to work... 
<akxwi-dave> ( not including the first failure of forgetting to enable source code and not having Xfce4-dev-tools installed)   :-)
<flocculant> yea all fails if no source or tools - did that myself :p
<flocculant> knome: and the circle link on https://xubuntu.org/help/ :)
 * flocculant wanders off now
<knome> mmh
<knome> flocculant, and done
<Unit193> He likes circle links.
<knome> prefer them to ellipse links.
<flocculant> ochosi: did you notice terminal border thickening and changing colour? is this some gtk3 thing? want a bug report? if so launchpad or lp/bugzilla?
<ochosi> eh, no, haven't noticed yet
<ochosi> haven't had time to upgrade tbh
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/YAP69tQ.png - back terminal has 2 tabs 
<flocculant> anyway - if you want bug reported I'll get on it for the alcholic awardnight release 
<ochosi> flocculant: not sure, what's the bug there?
<ochosi> or did you mean the fact that with tabs, the border seems 1px thicker?
<ochosi> (cause if so, i'd say you're starting to distinguish circles and elliptical circles!)
<flocculant> ochosi: lmao - so yea - is the border being 2 px instead of 1px a bug (assuming px'ness) that needs dealing with? 
<flocculant> certainly looks a bit odd now I've seen it ;)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> well its because of the tabs
<ochosi> so expected
<flocculant> ok - just different than what I see on a 16.10 vm 
<flocculant> so expected - but a change? gtk3? 
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i think it's a gtk3 change
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - thanks :)
<Spass> that additional 1px frame (when with tabs) isn't visible on other themes like Zukitre, Numix or Arc
<Spass> just checked
<flocculant> thanks Spass 
<flocculant> nor adwait btw
<flocculant> ochosi: so if it's Greybird - will it stay as is? 
<ochosi> a-ha, interesting
<flocculant> ochosi: shall I report this now :D
<ochosi> you can, then at least i don't forget to check this later ;)
<flocculant> ha ha - okey doke
<Spass> knome: what about that shiny mouse logo, is it free to use without any modifications? http://xubuntu.ugu.pl (sorry for that ad on top, I've just upload it to a random free hosting for testing purposes)
<Spass> *uploaded
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - bug 1683857 then - linked it on the aa bug blueprint
<ubottu> bug 1683857 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Terminal border doubles when more than 1 tab" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1683857
<flocculant> knome: any reason that aa bug b/p doesn't show up on http://dev.xubuntu.org/ that I've forgotten about :)
<knome> Spass, feel free to use it
<knome> flocculant, ...but it does? :)
<knome> http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-a-bugs
<Spass> knome: cool, I like how it looks and adds colour, thanks
<flocculant> knome: lol
<flocculant> hatez u :D
<knome> i didn't do anything about it :P
<knome> it should have been there all along
<knome> the only reason why it might not show up if the tracker has failed to load it
<knome> i should do something about this, but i won't until some of the other changes have landed
<flocculant> wasn't there at 16:56:47 BST :p
<knome> yeah, likely reappeared 3 minutes later
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: me again :p what's your thinking of colour plugin for the wiki? https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:color
<knome> flocculant, where/how would you use that...?
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, the panel's dot style is reimplemented now. wanna supply me the same types of screeners for the handle style too? (while the code doesn't throw warnings, it seems broken in gtk3)
<flocculant> knome: at 18:09 using red as a warning on a release note
<flocculant> ochosi: 48px panel http://i.imgur.com/ffpoAGD.png
<flocculant> ochosi: oh hang on - wrong handle probably :D
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> yeah, that looked like the panel handle
<flocculant> top marks for the xfce panel dev guy there :D
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/J3qF3Zl.png :)
<flocculant> you can haz both handles 
<knome> flocculant, would you be happy with a plugin that allowed you to add a red warning of which style was controlled by the css? :P
<knome> flocculant, or in other words, i'd rather let us use the predetermined styles than tell you use any color you wish :P
<knome> flocculant, for an example, see https://xubuntu.org/contact/
<flocculant> knome: if the plugin pulled colour from the nearest telephone box I'd be happy - not too concerned with the how :)
<knome> oki
<knome> i'll look at that...
<knome> should be relatively easy
<flocculant> yea that type things would be fine
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> as long as we have a few to pick from I guess
<flocculant> ochosi: on 16.10 speperator is 'some real dark shade' on 17.04 with the git panel it's grey 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/QKrNo6S.png
<ochosi> yeah, i would argue that gtk3 does the right thing
<ochosi> although the bright color could be tuned down a little
<flocculant> the grey one that's visible? I'd agree with that
<flocculant> and yea maybe a little tuned out 
<ochosi> look, gtk3 handle 
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/1txE6OV.png
<ochosi> implemented since you sent me the second screenshot ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I can't see the gtk3 handle 
<flocculant> here
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it was broken
<flocculant> oh right
<ochosi> i noticed when re-implementing the dots style
<ochosi> had to rewrite it in cairo though
<flocculant> oh meh 
<ochosi> the gdk drawing crap didn't seem to work anymore
<ochosi> and i was too lazy to debug it ;)
<flocculant> umm is this expected?
<ochosi> what?
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/ZEO2voy.png
<flocculant> that's obviously lowering opacity
<flocculant> and I'm guessing difference between internal and external plugins?
<ochosi> are you on git master from two days ago?
<flocculant> ochosi: git pulled and rebuilt 5 minutes ago actually
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> so that's with a custom bg color?
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> oh the blue is wallpaper 
<flocculant> background is set to None (use system ...)
<flocculant> the first transparent bit from left is seperator
<ochosi> the background is set to none and then how did you change the opacity?
<ochosi> with the leave/enter setting?
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> k, then i must have broken that part
<ochosi> could you do a git checkout c2c3736addbb1c851a1e11863d994f6ff7d2db2d
<ochosi> and then rebuild?
<flocculant> using this monstrosity for ./autogen just in case that makes a difference http://paste.ubuntu.com/24409020/
<flocculant> ochosi: I can if you tell me how to checkout ...
<ochosi> "git checkout c2c3736addbb1c851a1e11863d994f6ff7d2db2d" ;)
<flocculant> or is it obvious? git checkout 
<flocculant> ha ha ok 
<ochosi> it'll tell you you're in headless mode, but that's ok
<flocculant> k - that paste was the way I ended up making all plugins available at least (and likely a bunch of other stuff) 
<flocculant> ochosi: so that checkout bit - is how to build with 'specific' code? 
<ochosi> yeah, it's how you jump to a specific commit/branch/tag in git
<flocculant> ochosi: ack
<flocculant> ochosi: still odd when transparent
<flocculant> I assume just restarting panel should suffice?
<ochosi> probably have to do "xfce4-panel -q"
<ochosi> restarting may be a soft restart
<ochosi> but i haven't read that bit of the code yet
<ochosi> but that's my presumption
<flocculant> nope - still transparent in bits
<flocculant> but please look at paste above just in case there is something there ...
<ochosi> i will in a second
<ochosi> still working on toning down the separator color
<ochosi> yay, success
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: had a couple of people (other than -team) respond re the thunar patch on bug 1679488
<ubottu> bug 1679488 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes when left inactive for a while" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679488
<ochosi> flocculant: so, i can reproduce and it's external plugins that are broken
<flocculant> ochosi: ok cool
<flocculant> well ... you know what I mean - it's not me :D
<flocculant> ochosi: will git pull now take me back to where I was? 
<ochosi> "git checkout master"
<ochosi> you basically have to jump back to a branch
<flocculant> ali1234: is it likely that bug 1645400 is the same issue as xfce 13481 ?
<ubottu> bug 1645400 in thunar (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/thunar:11:g_mutex_lock:thunar_thumbnailer_queue_async_reply:thunar_thumbnailer_proxy_queue_async_callback:complete_pending_call_and_unlock:dbus_connection_dispatch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645400
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13481 in core "Indefinite hang" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13481
<flocculant> ochosi: aah right ok - that makes sense :)
<flocculant> and from there you can git pull next time I guess
<ochosi> flocculant: if you pull master now you can try the fixed separator styles
<flocculant> okey doke 
<ochosi> do you remember that the opacity was ever working?
<ochosi> (fwiw i'm not a huge fan of that opacity setting anyway, but whatever...)
<flocculant> ochosi: I don't 'think' so - I remember it being a bit off on vm when I was first looking - but opacity isn't something I ever use really
<flocculant> only saw it then because I was trying to find the seperator 
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether i should also re-implement that in a cleaner way
<ochosi> currently that type of opacity is weird, it makes the whole panel transparent
<ochosi> as opposed to bumping the alpha value, which would leave icons and text intact and only make the panel bg transparent
<flocculant> ochosi: nice - and the dots look like dots, not small squares too :)
<flocculant> but bg colour looks like it did before to me
<ochosi> i know, that part probably got a bit better
<ochosi> hmm, really? with what theme?
<ochosi> i tested adwaita and greybird here
<flocculant> greybird
<flocculant> oooh
<flocculant> seperator icon in panel isn't scaling
<flocculant> oh nvm 
<flocculant> must have been big when I upped panel size but didn't shrink with the panel
<ali1234> flocculant: probably yes
<ochosi> flocculant: odd that the color wouldn't be working for you...
<flocculant> ali1234: I thought it might be - might link the xfce one on some lp bugs
<flocculant> ali1234: alos had a few people test the patch
<ali1234> did you get access to e.u.c yet?
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/6qMlD0M.png bottom is current panel - top is previous screenshot
<flocculant> ali1234: yea some time ago
<ali1234> actually this bug looks like it has been happening for a long time
<flocculant> yea that's what I thought when I looked on e.u.c
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yeah this is not related
<ali1234> its a totally different mutex, inside glib
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> ochosi: also - do you have more built from git there than me? would that affect this colour thing at all ?
<flocculant> wandering a bit - but not gone for the night
<ochosi> flocculant: i think it's just the line having been toned down even before
<ochosi> when i started to implement dots/handle, they were #fff
<ochosi> with greybird
<ochosi> which they are obviously not anymore now
<ochosi> we can tweak the color easily now
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: more positiveness re bug 1679488
<ubottu> bug 1679488 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes when left inactive for a while" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679488
<Unit193> Did someone make a nice testing package?
<flocculant> Unit193: no people have been testing git+patch
<bluesabre> flocculant: awesome (and I would have made a package but people were having such an easy time I thought Unit193 already had)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so assuming that we're sru'ing this new thing it'd need to be a package anyway would it not?
<bluesabre> nah, let's SRU with git build instructions :D
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-20
<Spass> OK, so besides that Whisker Menu bugs that I already reported on bugzilla, seems like Window Buttons plugin could have a issue too
<Spass> it should be very easy to reproduce, open anything and while that window is active click on Window Button on the panel that represents that window and move cursor away
<Spass> the window is still active but now the Window Button shows as it wasn't
<Spass> tried on couple different themes, someone can confirm?
<Spass> tested some more, it only appears when I have "Middle click action: Minimize Window" option in the plugin's settings
<Spass> so it's very minor
<Spass> same on 16.04, just checked, but I can only assume it's unlikely that it bothers someone (besides me) and I should just live with it and don't file a bug report on that
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha ha 
<ochosi> flocculant: so from what i read the thunar patch seems to work well..?
<flocculant> ochosi: yup :)
<flocculant> I have just seem a comment though about some other issue (maybe)
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1679488/comments/17
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679488 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes when left inactive for a while" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> no idea if that's patched thunar or current - asked for clarification
<flocculant> ochosi: see Spass's comments above re window button also
<flocculant> I'm assuming that if not critical - bugs in that sort of thing will liekely be ignored for gtk2 but cared about for gtk3 ?
<flocculant> if that's the case I can make sure to tell people
<ochosi> yeah, that's likely going to be the case
<flocculant> ok - thought so - certainly logical :)
<ochosi> regarding thunar, please keep me updated as i'll have to push the fix to master then at some point and also prep a release
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - just seen a dupe - getting more info there too
<flocculant> ochosi: maybe early next week for me to say ok :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that's ok
<ochosi> bbabl
<flocculant> so this is fun, firefox (maybe) hangs - ubuntu-bug just sits there, lovely load average, killall appears to work, kill -9 appears to work - but ff process still shows in top - and task manager tells me I have no processes running at all \o/ http://i.imgur.com/0jkZRiW.png
<flocculant> wondering if in fact it's an issue elsewhere ....
<flocculant> had to reboot too 
<flocculant> Spass: you about uk/europe evening time? 
<Spass> flocculant: you're asking about my time zone? sorry, my brain does not work properly now
<Spass> yep, that's the same bug/freeze I had couple hours ago
<Spass> and I had another weird one recently, with firefox :/
<Spass> I blame systemd :P JK, I have no idea how systemd really works
<Spass> and about that 'ubuntu-bug firefox' command. I tried it the second time firefox froze and I got a message that firefox isn't an Ubuntu package so it cannot be reported by this tool, something like that
<knome> are you using firefox from a PPA?
<Spass> no, from zesty repos
<Unit193> `apt-cache policy firefox | pastebinit`
<Spass> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24419109/
<Spass> so, I have version from yakkety?
<Spass> zesty - 52.0.1, all the rest - 52.0.2, according to packages.ubuntu.com
<Unit193> Yeah, with a few things they really mess up the upgrade path, you can "fix" that one with `apt-get install firefox/zesty`, apt list | grep ed,loc  will show you what other packages you can no longer downlod from repos.
<Unit193> flocculant: I may have pushed something to a PPA that you won't really care about.
<Spass> ok, now I have "proper" zesty version installed on my system, too bad it's affected by a bug ("crash on startup on Linux") that was fixed in 52.0.2 :P
<Unit193> Hah, so you don't have PA?
<Unit193> I'd think 53 would hit soon enough.
<Spass> yeah, I think/hope the same
<Spass> last couple days was pretty buggy for me unfortunately
<Spass> I hope I'm wrong, but I think that future couple months will be hard for Xubuntu and Xfce (brace yourself, wayland is coming)
<Unit193> Wayland has been coming for years now...
<Unit193> Spass: The "downgrading" is so you can report it, if you have an issue I'd "upgrade" back to the yak one.
<Spass> thx, I'll do that if necessary, I know that Wayland is "old news", but seems like it's getting momentum lately
<Unit193> Not in Xfce, sooo. :P
<sorinello_> :))
<sorinello_> so xubuntu will not switch to wayland from 17.10 ?
<Unit193> AHah!
<Spass> I'm just hoping that ubuntu fully embracing the 'gnome way' won't be harmful to Xubuntu, but this could be just my lack of knowledge about ubuntu<>xubuntu relation and dependency
<sorinello_> :o
<sorinello_> such a pity
<Spass> like, for example (Ubuntu saying) - "We're on GNOME now, so we don't need that, that, and that, we don't need to support that package... and also cut this from repos."
<sorinello_> I don't think so because there are other distros that are officially supported, like xubuntu. Also, with the adoption of Gnome I imagine the number of supported packages will actually increase to acomodate Gnome
<Spass> I'm not worried about Ubuntu supporting what's needed for GNOME to work (they must do that obviously), I'm worried about them cutting something useful for Xubuntu
<sorinello_> don't think so, they usually shouldn't drop anything without a discussion
<Spass> what's with panel indicators for example?
<Spass> discussion is great, but will it be partner<->partner or boss<->employee type of conversation
<sorinello_> I see it more as a partner partner relation
<sorinello_> since xubuntu is an official distro
<Spass> you have an insight knowledge or you are just a optimist, unlike me :)
<sorinello_> I consider my self realist
<sorinello_> they can't just drop something critical because xubuntu won't work no more and it would become a broken distro
<sorinello_> and officially supported broken distro
<sorinello_> I am not afraid that as long as there is an efficient communication, this will not happen
<Spass> you're probably right
<Spass> still, "official distro/flavour" is just a title, given by canonical, they can give they can take
<sorinello_> it's not in their nature nor interest to do that
<sorinello_> the recent changes and news regarding Ubuntu are due to Cannonical re-organizing as a business/corporation
<Spass> I know recent news, they're reorganizing and they're cutting jobs, looking to save costs and become a "real company"
<sorinello_> yes
<sorinello_> but they are not stopping anyone to support certain packages
<sorinello_> my point is that they are not stopping open source communities, they are just re-focusing their business
<Unit193> My concern would be things growing depends because "Well it works in GNOME" thus becoming less useful, or at least more harmful, to Xubuntu and !GNOME really.  Packages shouldn't just disappear, the ones you'd have to be the most concerned with are Canonical projects (like indicators and lightdm.)
<Spass> my concern is strictly about my favourite distro - Xubuntu, I know that other distros (and Xfce) will be alive and well regarding on what's happening at Canonical offices
<Unit193> However, most of this is more of a discussion for -ot anywho.
<Spass> yeah, sorry for that Unit193
<Spass> you guys probably discussed that hundreds of times already
<sorinello_> I didn't. I'm a silent watcher of the xubuntu community for 2 years now, but never quite engaged in discussions
<Spass> I'll try to control my pessimism while on IRC
<Spass> xfce 13509 is probably a bigger issue, according to comment #3
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13509 in General "Button loses highlight when moving cursor on screen edges" [Normal,Resolved: moved] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13509
<flocculant> Unit193: which ppa might you have pushed something I won't really care about enough to look at?
<ochosi> Spass: andrzejr also noticed that bug some days ago and mentioned it (at least i think this is the same issue) ^
<Unit193> flocculant: xubuntu-staging
<flocculant> ochosi: I've managed to see similar with the gtk3 set 
<flocculant> Unit193: ooh - ok - cheers :)
<flocculant> torrents have slowed down now
<Spass> ochosi: thanks for the info, btw my second name is Andrzej :)
<ochosi> flocculant: yes, andrzejr reported it against gtk3
<ochosi> some flickering of the plugin
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  snap...  60 for 386, 110 for 64..   
<Unit193> Hmm, when does 14.04 EOL?
<akxwi-dave> ubuntu 14.01 april 2019,  Xubuntu now i think ..   don't e support for 3 years?
<akxwi-dave> 14.01*
<akxwi-dave> 14.04*
<akxwi-dave> blooming keyboard
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - wasn't positive whether that was gtk2/3
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: testing iso's - encrypt and oem were both optional, see no reason why we shouldn't run once them both
<flocculant> lubuntu have had an issue where a machine with no internet dodn't install properly - we don't have the issue - I checked, but now there is a install with no internet testcase - wondering whether we have that as run once too
<flocculant> bluesabre ^^ and anyone else interested enought to comment
<krytarik> Oh crap, seems we got a name: "[xubuntu.artful] r1010  platform.zesty -> platform.artful"
<flocculant> wut?
<flocculant> oic ... artful alcoholic
<krytarik> hahaha
<flocculant> :)
<krytarik> "Artful Aardvark" - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: agree..  change em to run once
<genii> Default !info package for -devel channels is now set for artful, thanks Pici
<flocculant> release note is started :p
<krytarik> lol
<flocculant> so's my grab some iso's and stuff script lol
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: what about the no net install test?
<akxwi-dave> hmmm..   aye we better cover all bases... stick that as a run once aswell
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> and done
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: spend a bit of time thinking about package testing - given the odd things we've been seeing of late might be sensible to start that up again
<flocculant> hopefully we'll see more of that stevehope during the cycle
<akxwi-dave> have been thinking about that as well..  we really should do a full test on them again, especially as 18.04 is just around the corner
<flocculant> mmmm
<akxwi-dave> also get new testers used to seeing the full list of tests..
<flocculant> yea
<akxwi-dave> i know it will probably be just me testing them ...but hey.. its a start  :-)
<flocculant> well - it is sometime since we used a full list - 14.04 I think :)
<akxwi-dave> :-) probably.. i do remember spending a full day going thru em all
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> lol 
<flocculant> so long ago gmusicbrowser is a mandatory test :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: somewhere to plan package testing http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-artful-packages
<akxwi-dave> right guys.. afraid time to go.. taking the wife to the pub..  i'll take a look at the ML and testing in the morning...
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: hf
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<akxwi-dave> nn
<ochosi> i'd have preferred "artsy" over artful
<ochosi> can we at least internally dub it that please?
<flocculant> really? I'd never have guessed :p
<flocculant> ochosi: I will call it artsy alky just for you :D
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> guess i've compiled and installed a bit too much in my system, the upgrader complains about it and won't let me do the upgrade :p
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> be brave and sed the sources :p
<flocculant> but backup too 
<ochosi> backup shmackup
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/WirgeJH.png
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume this is yakkety to zesty :p
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> the one time in a cycle when we use the same version - just before I can be bothered to set myself up to fall :D
<flocculant> knome: how easy is it to edit 'Links' on http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa ?
<flocculant> or where is code? 
<ochosi> nah, i often use the devel version ;)
<ochosi> just not during the last two cycles
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> was too busy with work
<ochosi> and wanted to keep my dev environment
<flocculant> yea I realise that :)
<ochosi> still fixing stuff in the panel..
<knome> currently, it's basically on the dev server
<knome> what do you need though?
<flocculant> just thinking about being more specific 
<knome> sure, just send me the things you want there (for now - again, when we get the new tracker stuff going, you can edit it yourself)
<flocculant> but not important at the moment 
<knome> oki
<flocculant> knome: my thinking is Current LTS Current Non-LTS 
<knome> i'll be away from tomorrow 12UTCish and forward (at latest), then back on late monday night and not for "hard" work as we'll most likely have overnight guests
<flocculant> but LTS would need changing as milestones - as would daily
<knome> hmmh.
<flocculant> yea - as I said this is not important/urgent at all
<knome> ok, i'll look at it next week
<flocculant> saves sending mails - oh respun, oh respun, oh respun
<knome> and make it editable for you... :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> or today
<knome> not decided what i want/need to do...
<flocculant> lol
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: https://ubottu.com/y/aa | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r506 Improved Button Backgrounds (less edges between buttons and ... (by rod)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-21
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hi Unit193  :)
<Unit193> flocculant: So you'd say once thunar is ported to GTK3, we should hold off a while before pushing it to the real archives, keep it in PPA for testing?
<flocculant> I'd imagine so - depends when it's ported I guess
<flocculant> if it was early in cycle then maybe just go for it :)
<flocculant> on the other hand maybe in the ppa for a bit 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: notes added to pad
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ta
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: your welcome
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/commit/?id=ac387875a5e0d4239848fa3560757fb7ef0c2338 could sync our whisker with Debian, though that's going to take a while...
<Spass_> firefox really likes to freeze lately :/
<flocculant> Spass_: not seen it since yesterday
<flocculant> Spass_: also top marks for being first to mark the doodle poll :)
<Spass_> yeah, I was hoping to not see that bug again after uprgrading to v53
<Spass_> flocculant: ;)
<Spass_> what's interesting about the freeze I have now is that htop froze with firefox
<Spass_> and I cannot kill it
<Spass_> 'top' works but it doesn't show firefox and htop processes, but I can see htop hanging in GUI system manager
<Spass_> craziness
<flocculant> Spass_: this is what I got http://i.imgur.com/0jkZRiW.png
<Spass_> I would love to be able to open that link, but "Firefox is already running, but is not responding (...)"
<Spass_> something new, cpu usage dropped significantly, but everything seems hanging still
<Unit193> Use xombrero.
<flocculant> well that screenshot showed load average at 58,31,13 
<flocculant> Unit193: :)
<Spass_> xombrero, noted for later
<Unit193> flocculant: You want xfce4-dict-0.7.99 up too?  It's a development snapshot.
<flocculant> Unit193: no idea - I guess so
<Spass_> ok, I was going to sleep nonetheless, good night all
<flocculant> Spass_: night
<Spass_> and this time I was able to send ubuntu-bug, maybe that was useful
<flocculant> Spass_: bug number?
<Spass_> ehrm... when it was showed?
<Spass_> idk
<flocculant> mmm - wonder what it sent
<flocculant> tomorrow :)
<Spass_> I didn't saw any bug number but I didn't looking for it, I may do it again before I go once again, it still hanging happily
<flocculant> it is maybe sending a crash report - which is automatic
<flocculant> and not the same as a bug report - that would necessarily mean using browser - check in /var/crash, should be there
<Spass_> I saw a window with my system information, I looked through it briefly and I clicked 'send'
<Spass_> nope, nothing related to firefox or htop in /var/crash :(
<flocculant> maybe crash report then
<Unit193> Spass_: What's your LPIP?
<Spass_> Unit193: I'll try to guess - something related with Launch Pad? :)
<Unit193> Launchpad IP.
<Spass_> don't know if that's IP, but I'm 'mkubanski' there
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~mkubanski
<Unit193> There you go then.
<Spass_> brb, reboot
<Unit193> E: libgarcon-2-0: symbols-file-contains-current-version-with-debian-revision on symbol garcon_menu_item_action_get_command@Base and 16 others
<Unit193> W: libgarcon-2-0: symbols-declares-dependency-on-other-package libgarcon-1-0 #MINVER#
<Unit193> Nope.jpg
<Spass> omg, that reboot took forever!
<Spass> even xfce4-session-logout didn't operate properly
<Unit193> Nope,of course not.  It couldn't kill 'em either.
<Spass> so, that link you gave me before, the bugs I supposedly send moment ago should appear there?
<Spass> I mean, I don;t see them so nothing was sent?
<Spass> what a shame, all my "bugs" are related to same icons... I'm very helpful
<Spass> ok, I'm going now, last thing, probably won't be useful at all, but this took some time - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7WlVVZnQ2Ti1yQ1E
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can I pleeeeeease nuke https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12 now?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I see no issue with doing so at this point.
<Unit193> Sweeeeeet!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-22
<ochosi> so since it was mentioned by flocculant in -ot, i've been chatting up Trevinho regarding indicators and their future and he told me that it was currently undecided
<ochosi> it's possible that they will decide in the next meeting/s how that is going to continue
<ochosi> meanwhile i've noticed they've been exploring indicator-application extensions for gnome shell
<Unit193> Thanks for letting us know...
<ochosi> so we should probably follow their next meeting minutes a little
<ochosi> or ping them again in a week or two
<flocculant> ochosi: their meetings are usually at a time I'm active so will actively idle 
<ochosi> my personal feeling is that we may be able to live without many of them, but indicator-application will be hard to replace
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks, cool!
<ochosi> we have a potential replacement for -sound with the pulseaudio plugin
<flocculant> and anything I see that could affect us I'll ping or forward to us
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - have had a little play with that lately
<ochosi> and then there's only -messages which we ship by default
<ochosi> flocculant: and what's your feeling/feedback?
<flocculant> it works 
<ochosi> (also, we can easily patch that up a little, the code is not overly complex or long)
<flocculant> but mostly music playback I'm using alsa and ofc all the pulse stuff stops while I'm playing music
<flocculant> though I might revert to pa now I've worked out how to stop it downsampling 
<ochosi> the main downside of the pulseaudio plugin is that it doesn't have playback control
<flocculant> right - but I never use thatanyway 
<ochosi> so mpris support would have to be patched in, and that's probably not a small effort
<flocculant> biab
<Unit193> -application, that's for displaying indicators.  But most, if not all, fall back to a tray icon so that doesn't seem like a big deal either.
<ochosi> Unit193: while that is true, the trayicons have some downsides (scaling and usability mostly)
<ochosi> so yeah, it's not like we'll lose a lot of functionality, but some convenience and usability
<Unit193> Amusingly, I'm forcing dropbox to use the icon because it's more useful.  Indicators have no mouseover support, icons do.
<Unit193> It'd certainly be a bummer to lose them, but lightdm.... Yikes.
<ochosi> i thought lightdm's future was secured?
<flocculant> not sure that's the case, but more people are pro-keeping it than not from the m/l discussion
<flocculant> sigh - can't remember why I've got 2 volume indicators when using the pa plugin
<flocculant> oh suddenly I only have 1
<Unit193> All 5 have been accpeted now. \o/
<Spass> speaking about indicators, sometimes the icons are duplicated in the notification area - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7S1VVV0Q4OUlDVXc
<flocculant> or 2
<Spass> is it a known issue?
<flocculant> transmission does that as well
<Unit193> xfce4-dict, xfce4-genmon-plugin, xfce4-mount-plugin all might need some going over.
<Unit193> Spass: Fixed whisker is in AA.
<Spass> mostly it's ok, sometimes just one of these icon are duplicated, sometime both, very random
<flocculant> Unit193: are these in ppa or in repo?
<Unit193> flocculant: Repo proper, as of right now.  Got a notification.
<Spass> Unit193: ok thanks for the info, I hope the bug with scrolling will be fixed too, fingers crossed
<flocculant> ok cool - I'll check out later
<flocculant> Unit193: as far as things coming up that need some testing - we need somewhere to note that rather than in channel
<flocculant> I'll think about that
<flocculant> also happy to test from git as well
<flocculant> bbl - clock tells me I'm late :p
<flocculant> Unit193: got those now - installed genmon and mount
<ochosi> flocculant, Unit193: what up with those two?
<flocculant> ochosi: nothing up as such - just 2 plugins extra in repo now, so I grabbed them to check them out
<flocculant> ochosi: and also note to unit earlier - which counts for you and bluesabre "as far as things coming up that need some testing - we need somewhere to note that rather than in channel"
<flocculant> but not thought about it more than that yet :)
<akxwi-dave> a page on x.org would be nice under QA .. where  we can add these things
<akxwi-dave> xubuntu.org that is
<flocculant> was thinking of a pad or wiki.x.o tbh
<flocculant> or even the dev tracker notepad - that's there already
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r507 xfwm4-compact: Enlarged button images for better spacing and... (by RalphBike)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r508 Reference plank theme in readme... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> Unit193 ochosi - though I've no clue what the genmon thing does :D
<ochosi> flocculant: it monitors anything ;)
<flocculant> oh - ok :)
<flocculant> Unit193: you told me back a while - why would I have 2 volume notifications? got the xfce pulse plugin, hidden sound in indicators and removed ind-sound 
<Unit193> flocculant: I did?  That seems like a logical reason you'd have two.  And not really used all the things I listed, but some are going GTK3.
<Unit193> flocculant: And that's to say, you want us to note all uploads we do somewhere other than here?
<flocculant> Unit193: only if they need specifically checking/testing etc
<flocculant> an re vol notification - not sure where the other is coming from now :)
<ochosi> flocculant: could you check for me what happens with a gtk2 panel and right-clicking a window group of >1 windows? i get broken icons for maximize all, minimize all and close all
<ochosi> and i'm wondering whether that is really my doing or whether those icons were never there
<flocculant> just booting vm
<ochosi> thanks!
<flocculant> ochosi: you mean window buttons > window grouping > always? those icons? 
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> in the context menu of a group
<ochosi> so when right-clicking it
<flocculant> yep - on 17.04 vm I have icons for minimize and maximize and close (all)
<ochosi> weird, i can't even find those icons in my installation
<ochosi> supposedly it's stuff like wnck-stock-maximize
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/IvIFmGf.png these I hope :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i presume your gtk3 panel also still has those..?
<flocculant> cool - we're almost in sync then on what we mean when we say things :D
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> nope - I just rebuilt the gtk3 thing to see the lock hamdles
<ochosi> so in gtk3 the icons are gone..?
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> evening all
<ochosi> oh hey, evening bluesabre 
<flocculant> ochosi: don't forget that I am AA now with our zesty ppa's 
<bluesabre> how's it going ochosi and flocculant?
<flocculant> cos bluesabre is lagging :D
<ochosi> flocculant: that shouldn't make a difference
<flocculant> bluesabre: all goot here :)
<ochosi> hehe, he *is* !
<bluesabre> goot to hear
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - just wanted to to be sure you knew :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: busy with the panel mostly, other than that busy with work and life ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: always ahead of the game, huh?
<flocculant> bluesabre: :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: you?
<flocculant> bluesabre: keeping 2 running this cycle just in case change to gnome causes us issues - 1 will be a logout behind, got aliases to chroot and update set up to make that easy
<bluesabre> ochosi: not bad, was without a monitor for a few days, so lagging behind on AA
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> that and playing the new Zelda, who has time for anything? :D
<ochosi> huhu
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: what does the handle style look like in gtk2 again for the taskbar?
<ochosi> sorry, i should probably do this with a docker instance myself instead of pestering you all the time...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I couldn't get that docker thing working 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/wIUIYka.png 48px
<flocculant> oh hang on? taskbar?
<ochosi> yeah, sry, taskbar, not panel
<flocculant> wth is the taskbar :)
<ochosi> the "window buttons" plugin
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> oh right
<ochosi> not sure why there is that naming mismatch
<ochosi> i presume it's historical
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/N1FPM4f.png id you can see the handles you have awesome eyes ...
<flocculant> I turned labels off there btw
<ochosi> that's gtk2?
<ochosi> crazy stuff. that really doesn't work with dark panels at all
<flocculant> that's 17.04
<flocculant> bluesabre: I saw you talking about the panel backup doodah a while back - is 'when I use the backup doodah, it doesn't close the panel prefs' something you thought about?
<flocculant> ochosi: 17.04 is gtk2 isn't it? 
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> I got sooo confused last cycle lol
<bluesabre> flocculant: it has to, since it restarts the panel to achieve what it does
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh yea - didn't think about that :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: should it then shutdown prefs for some panel plugin you might have open - what if that plugin is no longer in the panel?
<flocculant> or is that 'scratch that itch yourself' territory :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: probably, but not sure if there is a great way to do that
<flocculant> ok - well it's great as it is then :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: we can have it make you log out when done
<flocculant> ok 
 * flocculant installs a pad of paper and pen
<Unit193> bluesabre: We gonna sru xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure thing
#xubuntu-devel 2017-04-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'll hold off xfwm in extras as it causes issues.
<Unit193> knome: I don't suppose you could symlink (aka, redirect) download/ to getxubuntu/ ?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-16
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> it found the package now so it works
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r647 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-doc)
<krytarik> bluesabre: Doc translations are in.. o/~
<bluesabre> oh boy
<bluesabre> krytarik: want to spot check that for xml validation?
<krytarik> Oh yeah, that'd be cool. :)
<jarnos> ochosi, oh, I see.
<jarnos> ochosi, what is xfce4-indicator-plugin used for?
<jarnos> bluesabre, xfpanel-switch is cool. I see I can use it in Xenial, already.
<jarnos> I do not care much about the Indicator plugin. It seems it is not added by default to panel. If I add the plugin, it will be hardly recognized at the right edge of panel, because there is no indicator contained. Only right mouse click reveals there is one added..
<flocculant> bluesabre: do you actually see bug 1705243 ?
<ubottu> bug 1705243 in parole "Play button inactive" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705243
<flocculant> does anyone :)
<flocculant> other than me and I think akxwi-dave 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I do, been so far unable to fix it
<bluesabre> Planning to resolve this week
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just wanted to be sure it wasn't a flocculant thing :p
<krytarik> bluesabre: Ugh, I took that as YOU would do the validation check, wasn't quite awake then yet.. :P
<krytarik> I've just made my computer busy for a while now however.. :P
<krytarik> bluesabre: Ok, there was syntax errors of course, but only a tiny one: http://paste.openstack.org/show/8Lw29FVSEdbWxZktW0RT/ - I guess disregard the LINGUAS change on the contributor docs, since they aren't shipped anyway.  And it'd be nice if you could commit the fix alongside the translation changes again. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-17
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r648 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-doc)
<bluesabre> Seems there is also a validation error with fr in xubuntu-docs
<bluesabre> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/62j8mMff5W/
<Unit193> You didn't see: Element aplicaciÃ³n in namespace '' encountered in para, but no template matches.
<bluesabre> That affects es.po, have a local fix for that
<bluesabre> (pushed)
<bluesabre> Moving on from that to other bug fixes, I think you guys are more familiar with fixing those and have a better idea of where to look
<Unit193> cp -r libs/images ../build/contributor/libs/
<Unit193> cp: cannot stat 'libs/images': No such file or directory
<Unit193> Makefile:45: recipe for target 'html-style' failed
<bluesabre> I think I remember seeing that when I tried updating the packaging last time
<bluesabre> Leaving the packaging as-is didn't present that
<bluesabre> (iirc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r649 Fix es.po and add en_GB to contributor-docs/po/LINGUAS (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> I keep forgetting to package https://launchpad.net/mugshot/+milestone/0.4.0, will try to remember to get it uploaded tonight
<krytarik> bluesabre: I didn't get a validation error on the French translation though.
<krytarik> bluesabre: Ok, now I actually get those errors too, not sure why I didn't yesterday, or maybe I overlooked them after fixing the Spanish one. :3
<flocculant> one thing at a time you mean?
<krytarik> Yes..
<flocculant> portuguese tomorrow :p
<krytarik> No..
<krytarik> Running another full test now..
<krytarik> Well, it *looks* like it's clear again! :D
<krytarik> Pushin..
<Unit193> Did you not push yet?
<Unit193> Still getting: hardware-devices.xml:376: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "Msuspending-troubleshooting"
<Unit193> Document fr/index.xml does not validate
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r650 Fix more validation errors. (by Krytarik Raido)
<krytarik> I did..
<krytarik> Crap, I do see that in the online diff too..  But I definitely didn't get any errors anymore then..
<krytarik> Fixed, will run another full test, and then overwrite..
<Unit193> That's going to break things..
<krytarik> Look at this, looks fine again...
<knome> famous last words?
<krytarik> X-(
<knome> ok ok, not famous at all, you're a nobody
<knome> ;(
<knome> (hullo!)
<krytarik> No, it should really be fine now, this was directly after a branch reset even..
<knome> :)
<krytarik> Ugh, now you're just being mean.. :(  And hullo!
<knome> haha
<knome> nah
<knome> i'm just making bad jokes
<krytarik> Yes...
<Unit193> I'd already pulled and pushed to git. :(
<krytarik> That's a bit premature in this context.. :D
<krytarik> But yeah, sorry about this extra loop. :(
<knome> hmm, video authors can give hearts to comments on youtube now?
<Unit193> strategy-document.xml:235: element para: validity error : Element para is not declared in para list of possible children
<Unit193> Document pt_BR/index.xml does not validate
<knome> ahhaha
<Unit193> [15:10:06] < flocculant> portuguese tomorrow :p
<krytarik> ....
<krytarik> How is this possible..
<Unit193> make contributor-html-translations TRANSPERC=20
<Unit193> That's how!
<krytarik> Hah!
<krytarik> I was seriously wondering already.. :D
<krytarik> Not fixingâ¢
<krytarik> I mean theoretically we could run this without a threshold at all, and then fix all the errors in the other languages too - but 1.) actually shipping them might never materialize, and 2.) any translations can be changed till then.
<Unit193> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/rebuilds/test-rebuild-20180408-bionic.html#xubuntu well.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-18
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, for anything python-related, they pushed a really late change that makes all python-related packages require dh-python when they did not below
<Unit193> Correct, just don't exactly like the idea of shipping things that no longer rebuild. :3
<bluesabre> Same here
<Unit193> Same page! \o/
<Unit193> Except, I tend to like being in sync with Debian more than you do. :>>
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> It's hard
<bluesabre> More bureaucracy
<Unit193> bluesabre: xubuntu-docs verifies for all the languages we build, pt_BR doesn't but we don't ship.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, example being pulseaudio-plug. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: so the package should build now?
<bluesabre> Looks like it does
<bluesabre> Uploaded
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r651 Release 18.04.1 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> What should I be doing?
<tracker6> hi Xubuntuers, where on launchpad is the correct place to file bugs relating to 18.04 beta 2?
<Unit193> Depends on what the bug is.
<Unit193> Depending, you do  `ubuntu-bug $application`
<tracker6> I've just downloaded the 32bit version, checked SHAsums, and tried to install on a 2005-era Dell laptop I've sucessfully installed many *buntu's on. After getting to past the Xubuntu splash screen, the install hangs on a black screen.
<tracker6> Well, I've just logged Bug #1764932 for the issue I mentioned above, and will flag it via the QA tracker.
<ubottu> bug 1764932 in Ubuntu "Xubuntu 18.04 i386 beta 2: After splash screen, installation hangs on black screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764932
<bluesabre> mugshot_0.4.0-1 uploaded to debian :)
<bluesabre> 1000x less painful than my last two package updates on salsa
<knome> lol
<akxwi-dave> morning gents.. just testing todays 32 iso  before i report a bug..  is there any reason why it goes straight to desktop rather than asking for install or to try?
<akxwi-dave> ahh found that flocculant has already reported it  bug 1763739
<ubottu> bug 1763739 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ISO boots directly to desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763739
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just noticed something about the docs ..."To learn more on contributing, have a look at the Contributor Documentation below, or visit the Get Involved section on the Xubuntu website."
<flocculant> There is no below for Cont Docs ...
<krytarik> :D
<flocculant> on index page
<krytarik> The story is I believe, I wrote that bit initially, and then it was decided to not offer the contributor docs alongside the user one, and it seems it was overlooked to reword that bit then.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> krytarik: if you want to tidy that up, I'll do another upload tonight
<bluesabre> We're so close! :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll have another look tomorrow for some randomness :D
<krytarik> bluesabre: I believe the one(s) who decided that should fix it too - after I dunno how many cycles.. :)
<krytarik> I mean I don't this as particularly critical right now.
<flocculant> krytarik: so you knew it was there for I don't know how many cycles?
<krytarik> No, I mean I just checked the oldest available docs on xubuntu.org - and that's 16.04
<flocculant> :)
<FurretUber> There are some applications that try to use the Indicator Plugin but fail, their menus show nothing. When starting them with dbus-launch they work
<FurretUber> But then they appear in the Notification Area
<Wimpress> He Xubuntuers
<Wimpress> Hey, even.
<Wimpress> Just testing todays iso and I'm seeing a breakage in Ubuntu MATE.
<Wimpress> I think I saw a bug similar to what I'm just experience that someone from Xubuntu raised.
<Wimpress> The Try/Install stuff dies and the desktops spawns.
<Wimpress> Sound familiar?
<ali1234> flocculant: knows about that one
<Wimpress> ali1234: ty
<ali1234> bug 1763739
<ubottu> bug 1763739 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu, budgie & mate] ISO boots directly to desktop" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763739
<Wimpress> flocculant: Right, you owe me. I changed my nick because of you ;-)
<Unit193> FurretUber: Which ones, and have you tried xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin instead?
<FurretUber> One example of application with this is the HPLIP systray. There is Dropbox too (but this one is not in the repositories)
<FurretUber> Using xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin HPLIP systray works, but then I don't have the volume icon and the messages icon from xfce4-indicator-plugin
<FurretUber> The best approach would be to use both?
<FurretUber> Unit193: The panel I use is definitely not as it is after a clean install. For example, the indicator-multiload is nor centered in xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin:  https://i.imgur.com/To30M5D.png
<bluesabre> ochosi: care to take a look at and comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1756608 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1756612 ? I believe you've looked at this in the past
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756608 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Applications Menu plugin clips panel icon." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756612 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Launch and Directory Menu items icons are too small" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-19
<Unit193> FurretUber: Aha, just remove indicator-application from the system, then you can use indicator-messages and indicator-sound if you don't like xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin.  The defaults still have -messages installed and working, but actually uses sn-plugin.  I have dropbox as well, and much less issue with sn-plug than -application.
<FurretUber> Yes, it's much better with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin. The remaining question is: the icon of indicator-multiload is not centered, is this a bug?
<Unit193> Never used it.
<FurretUber> Its icon is significantly larger than the other icons, as it shows graphs of CPU usage, RAM, etc. As it's big, 2 icons do not fit in a single line. With xfce4-indicator-plugin it was centered but with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin it's not. https://i.imgur.com/TSp9Dpp.png
<FurretUber> I understand this is pretty minor
<Unit193> Sounds like xfce4-systemload-plugin and xfce4-cpugraph-plugin.
<FurretUber> They have similar functionalities, but the xfce4-systemload-plugin shows nothing when hovering with the mouse,
<FurretUber> I can't remember another program with a icon like indicator-multiload has
<Unit193> Does for meeee.
<FurretUber> Now I'm curious: why isn't it showing information when I hover with the mouse (restarted xfce4-panel already)
<flocculant> Wimpress: ha ha ha - you see the comment in that bug re mate I hope :p
<bluesabre> lp seems to be timing out if you try to submit a comment
<bluesabre> And seems to be fixed now
<jarnos> Unit193, what is sn-plugin? I have used this trick in Xubuntu 14.04 and 16.04 to launch Dropbox: https://askubuntu.com/a/832942/21005
<jarnos> Good thing is that panel icon works and Dropbox will not be saved in session. 
<jarnos> I wonder will the trick work in Bionic (as the trick uses Upstart methodology) and is it the best solution there?
<krytarik> !info xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin
<ubottu> xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin (source: xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin): plugin to display status notifiers in the Xfce4 panel. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 59 kB, installed size 307 kB
<jarnos> !sn-plugin
<krytarik> Nono, that's it. :)
<jarnos> krytarik, of it was abbreviations
<flocculant> bye bye gksu
<krytarik> Thanks, jbicha!
<flocculant> indeed
<jarnos> flocculant, what is there in place of that?
<flocculant> jarnos: pkexec I guess - it'll work for some things
<flocculant> don't really know
<flocculant> and I'd guess that jbicha doesn't care as long as gnome and ubuntu are ok
<FurretUber> I'm trying to save my panel using xfpanel-switch, but it's giving a error when I press to save: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HffR9HnG3s/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-20
<ali1234> what version?
<ali1234> how much of that path exists?
<ali1234> FurretUber: please open a bug with ubuntu-bug xfpanel-switch and attach ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml and ls -lR ~/.config/xfce4/panel
<ali1234> it's possible that either of those files could contain private information so check for that first
<ali1234> paste the bug link here and i will take a look
<FurretUber> Ok, give me a moment
<ali1234> also a screenshot of your panel layout might help to get a basic idea of what is going on
<FurretUber> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1765565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1765565 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "xfpanel-switch is failing to save panel settings" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> you have five launchers in the configuration, but the matching .desktop files are missing?
<FurretUber> The panel has two, which is the intended. I don't know from where are those additional .desktop files
<ali1234> they are in th configuration
<FurretUber> I saw this, but they don't exist in the panel
<ali1234> can you open panel properties on the the list of plugins and screenshot it please?
<FurretUber> https://i.imgur.com/QJDsU0w.png
<ali1234> do you have any idea how this could have happened? did you ave more launchers before?
<ali1234> did you load a configuration that could have added them?
<FurretUber> I have changed the default browser a few times, and I changed the icon accordingly
<ali1234> the name of the .desktop is a unix timestamp
<ali1234> it has one extra digit tho :)
<ali1234> so those .desktop files are from 2015
<ali1234> hmmm
<Unit193> The heck is session-migration?
<ali1234> yes, you can see that those plugins are not in the plugin-ids array
<ali1234> Unit193: context?
<Unit193> New package, not a whole lot of a description.
<ali1234> oh i bet i know how this has happened
<ali1234> 1. make new panel, 2. add stuff to panel, 3. delete original default panel, 4. plugins from the original panel are not removed, just left as orphans, 5. .desktops do get removed though
<ali1234> yeah this is it
<ali1234> this is actually a xfce4-panel bug
<ali1234> going to be way easier to work around it in panelswitch though
<ali1234> FurretUber: when did you make your panel configuration?
<ali1234> 1. make new panel, 2. add stuff to panel, 3. delete original default panel <- is that what you did?
<FurretUber> I changed it last time yesterday (as I added xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin to the panel), but this configuration is,definitively, not new
<ali1234> when did you delete the default panel?
<FurretUber> I never deleted a panel, I just edited its settings
<FurretUber> Trying to delete that part from the XML with the .desktop files don't work, as it reappear a second later
<FurretUber> If I start another session without the xfce4-panel and edit the XML, the moment I log in the panel returns to that state
<ali1234> you cant edit the xml on disk
<ali1234> you can use the settings editor to delete it however it would be helpful if you didn't for testing
<ali1234> so you removed some of the plugins from the default panel and added new ones?
<FurretUber> Yes
<ali1234> when did you remove them?
<ali1234> was it before or after upgrading?
<FurretUber> Before and after
<ali1234> the default ones i mean
<FurretUber> Before
<ali1234> all the orphans on your panel are from the default configuration
<ali1234> and i can't reproduce the effect in 18.04
<ali1234> so on 17.10? or is the config even older than that?
<FurretUber> Even older. Give me a moment to think
<ali1234> did you use panel switch to copy over the panel from an older install?
<FurretUber> No, I just upgraded from one to another
<ali1234> oh right, 17.04 was your first install
<FurretUber> It was Xenial -> Yakkety -> Zesty -> Zesty reinstall -> Artful -> Bionic
<ali1234> so this is probably a bug that has been fixed on the panel side
<ali1234> but we need to handle the left over bad config in panel-switch
<FurretUber> What may be the cause of the XML for the panel returning to its previous state after I edit it?
<ali1234> its how xfconf works
<ali1234> it only loads the file at login and after that it only writes
<ali1234> if you edit it while logged out, that will work
<ali1234> you can do that from a console
<FurretUber> I will try to edit from the console, so I will log out. I will join here again and tell if it worked or not
<ali1234> you can just use the settings editor too
<ali1234> i dont recommend hacking the xml
<FurretUber> I have changed it, but I saved that "tainted" configuration, if we need to make additional tests
<FurretUber> Oh, I've found a way to reproduce that bug of Indicator icons appearing multiple times
<FurretUber> Just changing the panels with xfpanel-switch enough times to the Bionic version makes this happen sometimes
<ali1234> FurretUber: okay i've got a patch for you to test
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/r59fFDyh7N/
<ali1234> copy that over /usr/share/xfpanel-switch/xfpanel-switch/panelconfig.py
<ali1234> run "xfpanel-switch save foo" on terminal
<ali1234> it should print the orphans
<FurretUber> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FWNfX2FBZJ/
<ali1234> looks right
<ali1234> can you try saving and loading the configuration through the gui?
<ali1234> afterwards, your orphans should be gone
<FurretUber> Apparently it worked. The file is smaller and no longer has those additional launchers, nor multiple genmon
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> i'm going to need you to test this one more time on the version of the patch with no debug prints :)
<ali1234> this is my final patch: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/xfpanel-switch/orphan-plugins/view/head:/xfpanel-switch/panelconfig.py
<ali1234> i sent a merge request
<ali1234> this will need careful testing/review
<FurretUber> Apparently it's working here. What behavior should I see? Are there additional tests I should do? 
<ali1234> well, first, get the new version of the patch :)
<ali1234> and then... test as much as you can
<ali1234> the corrupt config, and also just regular configs
<FurretUber> It's no longer removing the invalid entries from the XML file, but I think this is intended (maybe a plugin lacking that the user want), but it is importing and exporting properly. Give me a moment
<ali1234> it should be
<FurretUber> I tried to cause errors in many ways, I've used even a live system to try to cause havoc. What I have noticed:
<FurretUber> If the configuration was invalid and would cause a error, as it happened with my configuration without the .desktop files, then all invalid entries are corrected
<FurretUber> If the configuration has invalid values but would not cause a error, then it saves the configuration with the invalid but not "fatal" values
<FurretUber> They are being corrected in the moment of the save
<ali1234> can you check the saved config? it's a tar file with config.txt inside
<FurretUber> From the saved configs, if when saving it would crash, then all invalid entries are removed. If there are no entries that would crash, it saves the invalid but not fatal entries
<FurretUber> One entry that is removed in the file that causes the crash but is not removed if no crash happens is: /plugins/plugin-26 'thunar-tpa'
<FurretUber> If I start a session using the config file with the invalid entries I can use it but, when I save it, the invalid entries are removed
<FurretUber> If it would cause a crash
<FurretUber> If there are invalid entries but they do not cause a crash, then I can save and load it
<ali1234> edit panelconfig.py line 154 add a print statement: print(param)
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> show me the config.txt please?
<FurretUber> Adding that, when opening xfpanel-switch with the file with invalid entries but that does not cause the crash makes this appear: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7Y67tW7vyF/
<FurretUber> Which one of the config.txt? From the one that causes the crash?
<ali1234> both
<FurretUber> When opening with the configuration that would cause the crash: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TFQ6qKjcGf/
<FurretUber> Give me a moment, I will obtain the config.txt of the file that causes the crash
<ali1234> so it is deleting those keys
<FurretUber> How the entry that would cause the crash is after saving it: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zcTcC4X2d8/
<ali1234> so they are gone from the config
<FurretUber> How they are in the entry with invalid values but not fatal: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZdykJYRqKr/
<ali1234> can you show me the two xml files as well?
<FurretUber> After reimporting them? As the one that causes crash is impossible to recover
<ali1234> no, before
<FurretUber> Ok
<FurretUber> This one causes the crash: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1765565/+attachment/5123170/+files/xfce4-panel.xml
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1765565 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "xfpanel-switch is failing to save panel settings" [Undecided,New]
<FurretUber> "PHP and other Web scripts are not allowed"
<FurretUber> https://pastebin.com/6UmiCaS2
<FurretUber> The second one has invalid entries but can still be saved
<FurretUber> "Lossless"
<FurretUber> (sorry, couldn't find a better term)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmm
<FurretUber> What is the intended behavior? Remove all invalid entries or only the ones that cause a crash?
<ali1234> remove all
<FurretUber> So the issue is with the file that kept the invalid ones?
<ali1234> yes
<FurretUber> Aren't the functions that remove invalid entries called only if the program would crash?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> try this please http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/drhkY3gK28/
<FurretUber> Should something different happen? More messages were printed
<ali1234> no, past the messages please
<FurretUber> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/STGDyn5RQt/
<ali1234> and the config.txt?
<FurretUber> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/J5S22PJDS4/
<ali1234> wtf
<ali1234> try this one please: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wyNw58Q3C6/
<FurretUber> The output from the program: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ND6k4Gp6Hn/
<FurretUber> The config.txt file: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kdJtr7zbpD/
<ali1234> now they are gone?
<FurretUber> The config.txt has the same 63 lines as the file that would cause the crash and was corrected
<ali1234> but i did not change anything in the code
<FurretUber> The only possibility in that in the penultimate test I have not copied the file correctly
<FurretUber> But it was more verbose
<ali1234> this one has the prints commented out: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/BgqPHtKv8Z/
<FurretUber> Copied correctly, now I'll test
<FurretUber> Ok, it did not change, the invalid entries are still there
<ali1234> this one i just uncommented the one print line: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H33ksPg3WJ/
<FurretUber> Copied, now I'll test
<FurretUber> Kept the invalid values and printed this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7NZFc3TPDT/
<FurretUber> One of the versions is corrected
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<FurretUber> One you sent previously is removing the invalid entries
<ali1234> oh, i made a typo
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wgrHgpXGrJ/
<FurretUber> Copied, now I will test
<FurretUber> Didn't work, the invalid entries are still there
<ali1234> uncomment line 175 and try again
<FurretUber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wyNw58Q3C6/plain/ you sent before
<FurretUber> This one works
<ali1234> and line 155
<FurretUber> It didn't work, and this was printed: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gMxZPQhSbS/
<ali1234> hmm so it saved it without, then it saved it again with
<ali1234> are you using the GUI or command line?
<FurretUber> GUI
<ali1234> okay well this is a start
<ali1234> are you using the export button?
<FurretUber> I'm using the save button
<ali1234> try this one please: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2NsXJy5JxC/
<ali1234> i dont understand what is happening here
<FurretUber> Copied, I'll test
<FurretUber> Now it removes the invalid entries
<FurretUber> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7Pny99qksS/
<FurretUber> The config.txt: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RBDc47KB4r/
<ali1234> there must be a race condition
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hs3gCBsZ9h/
<FurretUber> Now it failed. What?
<ali1234> yes there's some kind of race condition. it randomly works or does not work
<FurretUber> Copied
<ali1234> hmm that one is broken, nvm
<FurretUber> Yes, it is
<ali1234> the problem is the cache file
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> i know what the problem is
<ali1234> always close() files when you are done writing to them
<ali1234>  Note fileobj is not closed, when TarFile is closed. 
<FurretUber> I don't know Python, but then this means the f.close() should be before the t.close()?
<ali1234> FurretUber: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7gbYdyf4Ck/
<FurretUber> Copied
<FurretUber> Worked, will try again
<FurretUber> Didn't work after
<FurretUber> It worked the first time
<ali1234> what was the output?
<FurretUber> When worked: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tqFN3s8VxX/
<ali1234> thats not the full output
<FurretUber> As I changed the configuration more than once, I thought that was the output for one run. Here is the complete one (more than one run): https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4QGhxMGdX9/
<FurretUber> To be clear: the LevementeRuim17 is OK, but the LevementeRuim18 is bad
<ali1234> you loaded a bad config and then saved it?
<FurretUber> (To the curious: "Levemente Ruim" means "Slightly Bad")
<FurretUber> I started with a bad config
<FurretUber> Then saved it to the 17
<FurretUber> File 17 was good
<ali1234> yes. and then you loaded 16
<FurretUber> Yes, and 16 was bad
<ali1234> and 16 was bad to begin with
<ali1234> then you saved to 18
<FurretUber> Yes
<FurretUber> And 18 was bad
<ali1234> yes. because it used the cache file
<ali1234> why does that cache file even exist?
<FurretUber> I'm sorry, but I have to go sleep, it's really late now
<ali1234> np. i know what the problem is now
<FurretUber> Thank you for helping me. Good night
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> ...And I never remembered whisker at a time I was allowed to touch packages. :/
<Unit193> !info xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin experimental
<ubottu> 'experimental' is not a valid distribution: artful, artful-backports, artful-proposed, bionic, bionic-backports, bionic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-back
<Unit193> !info xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin bionic
<ubottu> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (source: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin): Alternate menu plugin for the Xfce desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1.5-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 149 kB, installed size 715 kB
<Unit193> !info xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin unstable
<ubottu> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (source: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin): Alternate menu plugin for the Xfce desktop environment. In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.2-1 (unstable), package size 160 kB, installed size 681 kB
<ondondil> xfce4-panel in bionic looks kinda broken when switched to vertical mode https://i.imgur.com/M5NNrzx.png
<flocculant> the panel always looks broken if it's not horizontal
<flocculant> it's never not for me for years
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-21
<Guest40482> hello
<flocculant> !team | beginning the cc cycle - looks like no alpha's and onlt final beta. Replaced with some sort of organised community testing at points during the cycle
<ubottu> beginning the cc cycle - looks like no alpha's and onlt final beta. Replaced with some sort of organised community testing at points during the cycle: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's probably fine for b+1
<flocculant> bluesabre: I think that'll be the way forwards from here
#xubuntu-devel 2018-04-22
<Unit193> albinard: Heya!  Finally popping on when I'm active!
<albinard> joining in
<albinard> Hey, I'm old - need my sleep:)
<albinard> I like your latest Core ISO - really smooth, takes everything I've thrown at it
<Unit193> I can't remember if I've asked before, but do you happen to have EFI hardware?
<Unit193> And one would hope, it's getting close to release time!
<albinard> Yes, but I've always used the BIOS alternative
<albinard> Seems to work with limited tech smarts
<Unit193> Yeah, BIOS is a bit easier to set up.
<Unit193> For EFI/secure boot tests, I've either had to use qemu or rely on other people to test as I just have the older BIOS stuff.
<albinard> Good to hear - I thought I was the only one left!
<albinard> I'd try to help you out, but the learning curve would be a bit too steep 
<albinard> for a timely answer.
<Unit193> Yeah that's all fine, thanks though.
<albinard> Isn't the installer part the same as for other *buntus
<albinard> except for the branding or lack of it?
<Unit193> Yeah it uses ubiquity, same as everything else.  Just doesn't include the slideshow.
<albinard> Then wouldn't an EFI test of any *buntu serve, since
<albinard> once it's partitioned, it should be all set to go?
<Unit193> Ubiquity would just be the installer, casper and other aspects would be more what we're looking at for EFI.
<albinard> Oops - I guess I never look further into things todistinguish the components that thoroughly.
<albinard> Guess I haven't much helpful to add, so I'll say goodnight and thanks for great ISOs!
<FurretUber> Hi, I`m testing the Live System of Xubuntu http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/389/builds/170812/testcases/1303/results and it failed. Ubiquity never opens and the system is entirely in English. Was this reported already?
<FurretUber> The grub options when booting in UEFI mode don`t allow the user to choose the language
<FurretUber> Instead of two menu entries, one to try and another to install, there should be only one to start Xubuntu, and that entry must use maybe-ubiquity instead of only-ubiquity
<FurretUber> Then the user would be able to choose the language
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - can we have some testing love on twitter/g please :)
<flocculant> anyone got efi enabled machine to test bug 1766047
<ubottu> bug 1766047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Impossible to choose a language when booting in UEFI, as Ubiquity never opens due to problematic grub config" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766047
<knome> flocculant, tweeted
<knome> flocculant, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/987958981300715520
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> clearly twitter shouldn't have extended the allowed character count... now you just start writing these long poems :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> you politely said what I was a bit blunter about on facebook
<knome> ;)
<knome> dunno about that world, i tend to be able to avoid that domain for the most part :P
<flocculant> well I kind of do it to keep in contact with a few people - and pleia2 didn't like doing it, so I was friendly to her :p
<knome> yeah, it's mostly good to split things anyway
<flocculant> "Thanks for any likes and shares - but what we really need so that we can actually release in a few days is for people to actually follow through and test. "
<knome> anyway... bbabl/bbl
<knome> have a fun sunday
<flocculant> yea - you too
<flocculant> bluesabre: mailed lists for rc/final and did facebook, knome did twitting 
<bluesabre> flocculant: nice
<bluesabre> I'm working on catching up on a month's worth of release announcements for my apps
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> don't think there's much nastiness hiding in installs now
<flocculant> some oddities installing from uefi apparently - but no hardware I can look on there
<flocculant> !team | you will hopefully have seen leigh and willem around over the last few weeks - both new testers, they had more problems trying to deal with our tester info than anything else. To that end I asked them both to look -they are. Once the dust has settled post-release there will be stuff for you all to look at
<ubottu> you will hopefully have seen leigh and willem around over the last few weeks - both new testers, they had more problems trying to deal with our tester info than anything else. To that end I asked them both to look -they are. Once the dust has settled post-release there will be stuff for you all to look at: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> very nice
<flocculant> indeed - they've both put in a lot of time for it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice work on the release posts!
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks! going to try to be better going forward with release announcements happening at the same time as releases :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> btw, a cli interface for mugshot would be nice
<ochosi> so you can automate setting up stuff
<ochosi> (would come in handy @work)
<bluesabre> ochosi: that would basically be the thing that powers mugshot, chfn
<ochosi> right, but does chfn have a nice cli?
<ochosi> oh, it's actually not that bad 
<bluesabre> apparently it's different between fedora and ubuntu for some reason, but yeah, pretty usable
<ochosi> the avatarr is missing
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> might be something to add in the future
<ochosi> is that more than saving the pic as .face?
<bluesabre> That's basically it, but it might do something with accountsservice as well
<bluesabre> and syncing pidgin to .face
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> does lightdm still use .face?
<ochosi> or some accountsservice stuff now
<ochosi> (haven't dealt with it for so long...)
<bluesabre> I think so... not sure atm :D
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> alrighty, nvm
<bluesabre> haven't really touched the codebase in quite some time :)
<ochosi> as long as mugshot works all is good ;)
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> and thanks for chipping in on the release ml
<flocculant> ochosi: no worries - something I have opinions on ;)
<ochosi> :>
<FurretUber> flocculant: qemu-system-x86_64 -m 1536 -cdrom xubuntu-bionic-desktop-amd64-2018-04-21.iso  -bios /usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd -enable-kvm -cpu host
<FurretUber> Of course there should be qemu-system-x86, qemu-kvm and ovmf installed
<FurretUber> The issue is the grub configuration, so that affects all flavors of Ubuntu 
<flocculant> aaah
<flocculant> must be ovmf I was missing - always got errors trying to uefi with kvm
<flocculant> FurretUber: the bug has been pinged to people in -release btw
<flocculant> apparently not, still get errors trying to uefi with the virt manager setup
<FurretUber> virt-manager? Video QXL? Another bug
<flocculant> not sure 
<flocculant> FurretUber: tbh I'm not that bothered - have a hard enough time getting people to do testing on actual Xubuntu bits
<flocculant> booting the iso is canonical problem 
<FurretUber> The Xfce4 part is mostly OK. I would tell xfce4-volumed should handle better if pulseaudio daemon is restarted, but now the pulseaudio plugin is being used by default. From the components I use I reported what I've noticed (the screenshooter, taskmanager)
<flocculant> FurretUber: I know - I see bugs, you in here, you in #u+1 :)
<FurretUber> I have not reported a lot of things related to Xfce4 because simply there are very few problems I noticed. Many are not related to Xfce4, so I end talking a lot in #ubuntu+1
<pleia2> flocculant: g+ done
<flocculant> FurretUber: ack - I always read though - have pings for xubuntu and xfce in some channels
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.1.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-1-7-released-tp50937.html (by Graeme Gott)
<Unit193> - Fix memory leak when recreating window.
<Unit193> That'd seem a bit important...
<flocculant> perhaps :)
<flocculant> then again 
<flocculant> - Fix crash when last search action is deleted. probably does as well
<FurretUber> Hi, what may be the cause of this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/1765768 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1765768 in boinc (Ubuntu) "boinc-manager notification icon is problematic" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<flocculant> ochosi did say something a while ago about small icons in the new notifier 
<flocculant> other than that - no idea
<FurretUber> It's strange this happens only on boinc, Discord and xfce4-power-manager are fine
<flocculant> and it's a bit late in the day for things like that - if you get installer crashes or something else critical I'll be a bit more positive about it
<flocculant> FurretUber: I see similar with transmission
<FurretUber> Transmission icon is fine here, strange
<ochosi> flocculant: small icons where?
<flocculant> ochosi: on the new notifier plugin 
<flocculant> not really sure what the end of that discussion was - nine tls was involved perhaps
<ochosi> but in what context? in the bubbles?
<ochosi> or in the menu?
<flocculant> ochosi: oh sorry - sn plugin - not notifications
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> cant remember saying anything about that, but who knows - its been a long cycle :)
<flocculant> forgot your relationship with the other notify thing :D
<flocculant> anyway - this close ot Thursday *I* really aren't worried about an odd icon - an exploding install - yep I'll worry ;)
<flocculant> s/aren't worried/can't worry is probably a better way to say that 
<Unit193> But a memleak...
<flocculant> I did say perhaps :p
<Unit193> But meh, I don't use whisker, soo.
<flocculant> and there's another nasyish fix in the previous release of whisker 
<flocculant> ochosi: sn plugin is on the far right of the panel http://i.imgur.com/UMMfT0m.png
<flocculant> bbl
<ochosi> flocculant: does it only happen with transmission or with other icons too? also, what do the settings of sn-plugin say?
<flocculant> ochosi: network manager is the same - doesn't matter what different settings I use there
<flocculant> ochosi: oh ... I see there's an icon sie tool then :p
<flocculant> size
<ochosi> flocculant: does that make a difference then?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> unless I make it too big for panel - then it gets cut
<ochosi> so we need different default settings..?
<ochosi> or does it look ok ootb in the default session
<flocculant> just checked the iso actually - looks ok there
<flocculant> shame it doesn't take icon size from panel size - it is what it is - and I'll not complain cos I can't fix it myself :)
<ochosi> it's strange that it doesnt
<ochosi> i thought it does
<ochosi> maybe something to ask ninetls about
<flocculant> pretty sure I'd not set it to 13px locally - or I'd know why it was so small :D
<ochosi> anyway, in the gtk3 panel there is an api call for querying the icon size in the panel
<ochosi> so all plugins should behave/scale the same
<flocculant> ok - that sounds good 
<flocculant> as you know - flocculant wants all the gtk3 stuff in the iso as soon as practical :D
<ochosi> yup, it should be fine for 18.10
<flocculant> looking forward to that 
<Unit193> Have fun with that.. ;P
<flocculant> :)_
<ochosi> we will :)
<knome> re: flavor-specific cdimage stylesheets, let's start iterating from here: https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/cdimage/cdimage_xubuntu.png
<knome> ping flocculant, ochosi ^
<knome> this is without any changes to the markup...
<ochosi> looks quite nice already
<knome> yep
<knome> this is throwing our generic stuff at it
<ochosi> do we want to highlight any of the lines?
<knome> well
<ochosi> like the zsync or the ISO lines
<knome> that's a regular apache file listing
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> in that case no :)
<knome> probably not, no
<knome> i mean, it would be impossible without tweaks to the code
<knome> since everything else except the .html files are of unknown type
<ochosi> other than this i have no complaints
<ochosi> looks good!
<knome> going to put our logo somewhere
<knome> and look at the possibility to have a link back to our website
<knome> that likely needs changes in the code
<knome> but it's doable since lubuntu is doing it already
<knome> and i think that's an important enough thing to introduce some delta
<ochosi> oh, i thought the page was going to get our website header too
<knome> well... nope
<knome> not without hacking
<knome> and no, it's not going to be the live header
<knome> :(
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> nvm then
<ochosi> just do a reduced header with only a link back to our website
<knome> probably something like the docs
<ali1234> ochosi, bluesabre: can we talk about panel-switch please?
<ali1234> i sent some more patches a couple of days ago
<ochosi> right, sry, was out helping friends move
<ochosi> anything dramatic that needs immediate attention?
<knome> ochosi, with logo: https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/cdimage/cdimage_xubuntu_logo.png
<ali1234> maybe, i'm not sure
<ali1234> that's what i want to talk about :)
<ochosi> knome: noice!
<knome> the code bit we need to change is to make the header image link to xubuntu.org instead of ubuntu.com
<knome> and we can fix the favicon at the same time...
<ali1234> basically i found two bugs in panel-switch, and possibly a third that i haven't fixed
<ali1234> one bug causes it to crash, the other can cause it to corrupt your config, and the third one might cause it to miss changes you made
<ochosi> that all sounds sucky
<knome> Unit193, hullo? [:
<ochosi> ali1234: not sure we can still upload in time, you gotta get to bluesabre with those patches. to the worst we can do an SRU
<Unit193> Eh?  I didn't do anything?
<knome> not yet..
<knome> how does one create a new git repo in launchpad? just push to git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/.. ?
<Unit193> Push to create, correct.
<knome> anything else i should be aware of?
<knome> projects can take git and bzr repositories at the same time?
<Unit193> Just make sure to push correctly.
<knome> meaning what?
<Unit193> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git#Repository_URLs
<krytarik> ..Plz to gitify the docs too!
<knome> ugh
<Unit193> knome: https://git.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs
<knome> for things that are "completely in our control", i'd go all git or all bzr, so if you want things to happen (and think i'm the right person to listen for advice), then start working on a proposal to move completely to git
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-15
<bluesabre> Looks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1822380 is almost fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1822380 in thunar "Thunar right-click menu not expanded" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Spass_laptop> hi, not sure if the team has an ability to edit this site, but it looks like someone forgot to delete the old links from here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04.2/release/
<Spass_laptop> "Desktop image" section is duplicated
<Spass_laptop> top one is correct imho, so the links point to the newest point release 18.04.2
<knome> Spass, this is something that happens with every LTS..
<Spass> ah ok, I wasn't sure if that's intentional or not, someone mentioned it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/xubuntu/comments/bdfz49/the_agony_of_choice_14gb_vs_13gb_though/
<Spass> so I just wanted to let you know
<knome> yeah.. we have little control over that page
<knome> Spass, so the first one is the last point release, the second one is the non-point-release release
<knome> i don't know what makes them appear twice
<knome> if you want to reply, you can include that information and a note to check the file name in linked URL; one is clearly .x and one is not
<Spass> sure, I've edited my response and gave some more info, thanks
<knome> np
<knome> i didn't remember the situation with the visuals was so bad (maybe it wasn't), there's now a process we can follow to get our own stylesheet applied to that page
<knome> i really should follow up with that...
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed linux-restricted-modules. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a30845a6ecd92e3297bd8ddc7bf3130fa57e087b (by Adam Conrad)
<bluesabre> Unit193: you around for an opinion?
<Unit193> Yeah. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15200#c16 fixes the right-click menu in Thunar... while not already committed, I have tested and verified the fix. Think it's cool to package that up?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15200 in General "In pixman_region32_init_rect: Invalid rectangle passed" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> In regards to it being uncommitted?  Yes that's fine.
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to test it yourself before I write up the bug template and upload? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M6ZzkpCYds/
<Unit193> Specifically since it's the maintainer, but on the other hand there's got to be a reason he didn't.  Either way, it fixes it without regression, soooo...Good enough bandaid for now.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-16
<bluesabre> Thanks!
<Unit193> I can give it a shot.
<bluesabre> Double thanks!
<Unit193> Note: I can only reproduce it half the time I try.
<Unit193> ...Not to be a nitpicking jerk, but..Can you use a pastebin I can wget from? :3
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...I can still get the scroll window?
<bluesabre> Unit193: still 2 pixels tall, or can you read the items?
<Unit193> I can read the items, as before it's only trimming ~3 items or so.
<bluesabre> Unit193: for me, the submenu was drawing so short I couldn't read anything... the patch makes it workable
<Unit193> Ouch.  Sorry then, I thought this was the other problem where the menu was scrollable even though there's plenty of screen. :3
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> It's actually drawing at normal height for me, so a variety of weirdness(es?)
<Unit193> The problem you describe is even worse.
<bluesabre> So, sounds like it's ok to go ahead and upload in this state
<bluesabre> infinity mentioned yesterday that there'd be some respins today, so keep an eye out for those :)
<knome> Spass, do you have stylus (or a similar add-on that can apply custom css in your browser) installed?
<Spass> knome, nope, but I can do this if some testing is needed
<knome> Spass, yes, i have a treat for you :)
<knome> Spass, put this in for cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/*: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pMCSMJKJC9/
<Spass> ah, nice, blue header and single "Desktop image" section now :)
<knome>  yep
<knome> also, table styling
<knome> see how .iso and .torrent are highlighted vs. the ubuntu page...
<Spass> I can't see the icons near files, maybe something on my side?
<knome> they're hidden.
<knome> what do you need the question marks for?
<Spass> don't need them
<knome> indeed
<knome> i'm pretty sure they just increase confusion
<Spass> I like it, two small changes I would propose are: make the row higher - tbody tr { height: 2.3em;}, and personally I'm not a fan of the "padding-left" on the non-ISOs tbh
<Spass> so, to conclude my propositions, this - https://screenshots.firefox.com/hmnsDtC7undORo7P/cdimage.ubuntu.com
<Spass> ah, and maybe there's a way to hide that first empty row?
<Spass> so my proposition is bad, need to find something else
<Spass> yup, changing "tbody tr td { padding: 0.2em 0; }" to "tbody tr td { padding: 0.5em 0; }" works much better
<Spass> knome, and what do you think about this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VtVfpKCxpv/
<bluesabre> Oooooohhhh
<bluesabre> Fancy!
<Spass> original: https://screenshots.firefox.com/ehM4ciiycJoQAmAO/cdimage.ubuntu.com
<Spass> my seggestions: https://screenshots.firefox.com/cJEhUUrohXVqN6G0/cdimage.ubuntu.com
<Spass> anyway, both are fine
<knome> Spass, first what empty row? "parent dir"?
<Spass> nah, my first change in css was faulty, there's no empty row now :)
<Spass> all good
<knome> :)
<knome> Spass, not opposed to your changes
<knome> Spass, now let's start working on getting this to a git repository etc.
<knome> i think we need to include the main css file as well
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/FlavorCSSChanges
<knome> here's the process explained
<knome> we should dump this under xubuntu-website
<Spass> yeah looks like the CSS need to be complete
<Spass> and if you think that rows are slightly to high in my mod, we could change "0.5em" to "0.4em"
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'm fine either way ;)
<Spass> I might be wrong, but I think that "existing CSS" from that Wiki page is deprecated
<Spass> tried to use that in Stylus and it looks bad
<Spass> they probably changed that since then
<Spass> this is how it look with only that "original" CSS from the wiki - https://screenshots.firefox.com/SGAAhPiB5Oju6ds6/cdimage.ubuntu.com
<Spass> and yeah... looks like Lubuntu team missed that change in CSS - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/18.04.2/release/
<Spass> and probably kubuntu team also - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04.2/release/
<Spass> so yeah, is it really worth it to maintain that custom css?
<knome> i'd at least go ahead and change the header bg color
<knome> if nothing else
<knome> and link colors
<knome> those are pretty generic changes that work with all kinds of "base" css
<knome> (maybe we should see if we could just load the base css with an @import?)
<flocculant> Unit193: just so you know - got new kernel, reverted the grub change, rebooted and all is fine here again
<flocculant> hi knome Spass 
<Spass> hello flocculant 
<knome> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> how's things - the iso page changes you're looking to do look good :)
<knome> slow... :P
<knome> it's not often i have these quiet moments alone on the computer
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> it's not often I have a quiet moment the last 6 months lol
<knome> and even now i'm kind of thinking if i should use the quiet time for something else :P
<knome> flocculant, i understand ;P
<flocculant> I'm just about to away again now lol
<knome> yep
<knome> have fun
<knome> and - me too
<knome> -->
<flocculant> yep - see you 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I will try to do a test again this week - if it happens Wednesday - if it's Thursday I'll have no time
<Spass> knome, this mess is what cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/* imports :) https://assets.ubuntu.com/v1/vanilla-framework-version-1.8.0.min.css
<Spass> so yeah, not too clean
<knome> Spass, indeed.
<Unit193> flocculant: Ah, that's good news.  1998's resolution is gone. \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: yup it was - and it wasn't till I started typing I realised 1998's resolution wasn't something you did on New Years Day ...
<Spass_> refreshed disco ISO landed
<Spass_> (but I'll test them tomorrow, it's getting late here)
<Unit193> So I should refresh mine.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-17
<guiverc> i just booted [xubuntu] 19.04 daily/rc (live) on a system & it's 800x600 graphics - is that the 'safe' mode due to nvidia graphics?
<guiverc> ubuntu-drivers gave me another option; chosen & logout - now both screens are alive & higher res... :)
<krytarik> guiverc: What kernel version (or image date) have you got there?  Context is LP bug 1824677.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824677 in linux (Ubuntu Disco) "Display only has 640x480" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824677
<guiverc> Thanks krytarik ; i assumed the latest daily as I noted my download script didn't download a later .. it had 'no space left' error causing download to not occur... thanks.. 
<guiverc> 20190413.1
<krytarik> 2019-04-16 19:15 - is the new one including the updated kernel.
<guiverc> :(  yeah I realize that now...  (I could see left two chars of my download job window run - not enough )  -- assumption is the mother of all...
<guiverc> (last saying was something I was taught in an early programming job...)
<guiverc> ISO written & issues mentioned ^ all gone... :)  (20190416)
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs really hasn't had any updates. :/
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> Unit193, true.
<Spass> hmm, I'm testing the fresh disco ISO now and it booted me to live session with Adwaita theme and icons, someone was mentioning that issue when cosmic was in beta I think
<Spass> well, it stil happens unfortunately
<Spass> proper themes are selected in the Appearance settings and I see proper values in "xfconf-query -c xsettings -lv"
<Spass> but all I see Adwaita
<Spass> https://ibb.co/h7RfV6M
<Spass> (re-logging fixes it)
<Spass> and also I had an issue with 640x480 resolution on new user and lock screen, more about it here - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/403/builds/191455/testcases/1628/results
<Spass> do we really need that "No Network" testcase?
<flocculant> Spass: a while back there were issues with no internet installs - so we test it - once
<flocculant> there's no reason really to test for OEM - but again it's once
<Spass> ah ok, I asked because I don't see that testcase on other flavours
<flocculant> we only test the encrypt one because I (and indeed anyone not US) had issues with passwords - once again 
<flocculant> lubuntu used to test it - seems they hardly test anything now
<flocculant> anyway - I'm hanging up my spurs tomorrow for good - so someone else can have the unenviable task of trying to get more than 3 or 4 people to test
<flocculant> you can run it - and set it up however you want :)
<flocculant> I'll be about on and off to answer questions here - and I'll always answer e-mails
<bluesabre> flocculant: I appreciate all your help through the years! :-)
<Spass> looks like disco milestone can be marked as ready, or is it too early?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> Spass: looks like somebody did
<bluesabre> Incredibly, looks like all the desktop releases are marked ready
<bluesabre> Must be targeting an early release
 * bluesabre doubles down on release note writing
<Spass> I only see Ubuntu Studio marked as ready, but maybe ISO tracker refreshes slowly
<bluesabre> ohhh
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> was looking at beta
<bluesabre> I'll mark it ready before I go to bed
<bluesabre> Maybe we'll get some more testers :)
<Spass> ah right, I didn't know that marking it as ready locks the people from adding new reports
<Spass> so yeah, no need to hurry :)
<Unit193> If you feel like testing something though.... :3
<Unit193> I'd like to note here that it sort of pisses me off that snapd is in Core too.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Xubuntu Core is up, ish.  Not tested it really yet.
<bluesabre> 19.10 dev goal, create snap-remover app, package as snap, include in xubuntu-core
<Unit193> Ahaha, oh geez.
<bluesabre> :>
<Unit193> xubuntu-live, it boots up and removes snapd! :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: now that we have apturl, we can do things like this :) https://i.imgur.com/blPKi9S.png
<Unit193> Not terribly fond of that idea in general, but yes indeed we could.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-18
<Unit193> Use in the documentation however... :D
<bluesabre> Definitely
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: That's incredibly interesting. Might be a neat trick for some Ubuntu Studio stuff.
<bluesabre> :)
<Eickmeyer> Specifically...
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer
<ubottu> Ubuntu Studio Installer is an app that can be used to add Ubuntu Studio's benefits to an existing Ubuntu (or official flavor) installation, or add additional packages. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioInstaller
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: Nice, never knew you guys had something like that
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: We've had it, just reimplemented it this cycle and stuck it in our backports ppa.
<Eickmeyer> What's funny is, if they want to use it on Xubuntu, might as well just install Ubuntu Studio. :D
<bluesabre> Indeed :D
<bluesabre> With a bunch of our team being away, probably going to start leaning on your team more... I'll try to not be overbearing ;)
<Eickmeyer> Hehe, well.. there's about 3 of us active.
<Eickmeyer> Two regularily in IRC: myself and OvenWerks.
<Eickmeyer> Might be gaining Eylul back in June.
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps even sakrecoer, but not sure.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Currently I just send everything to Unit193 and he fixes/packages
<bluesabre> Or builds bots
<Unit193> ...Or is a bot.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: maybe you're a cyborg ;)
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I knew a long time ago Unit193 at least had borg-like tendencies.
<Unit193> (Just the nick is bot-ish to some)
<Eickmeyer> RIGHT?!
<Eickmeyer> Then there's your alter-ego DalekSec...
<Eickmeyer> That just screams robot.
<Unit193> Heh, Emery already tested and emailed. \o/
<bluesabre> Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww https://bluesabre.org/2019/04/18/xubuntu-19-04-the-exhaustive-update/
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Looks good!
 * Eickmeyer scampers off to bed
<bluesabre> Started the release announcement, https://xubuntu.org/?p=4622&preview=true, time for bed!
<bluesabre> Night all!
<sorinello> guys, there is no 19.04 page on xubuntu website
<sorinello> or at least I can't find it
<sorinello> latest is 18.10 Released
<sorinello> I am looking at the blog section
<flocculant> sorinello: that will be because it's not been released yet ...
<Unit193> sorinello: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2019-March/thread.html
<Spass> something is not right, this happened two times today on my laptop - https://ibb.co/h7RfV6M
<Spass> live session from usb
<knome> "this"?
<Spass> it booted the live session with Adwaita theme and icons
<ondondil> Hello, I've found a regression in Thunar 1.8.4 that is also present in Disco Dingo. I reported it here https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15302
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15302 in General "[Regression] In pathbar style, opening folders in new tabs with middle mouse click doesn't work" [Normal,New]
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: platform.disco -> platform.eoan @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=2012e71f598e58e85f28988a56fc2fc46c8f4b2f (by Adam Conrad)
<brainwash> ondondil: present since?
<Unit193> Woah, a name already?
<Spass> brainwash, I have that issue in cosmic, on Thunar 1.8.1
<Spass> btw, Ubuntu 19.04 is now available to download from the official website
<Spass> bluesabre, knome, since Google+ is dead, I removed Google+ link from the Social Media section - https://xubuntu.org/contact/
<Spass> we should also remove it from the footer
<ondondil> brainwash, I'm not sure, I haven't been following thunar development very closely and I just noticed it in Dingo
<ondondil> I downloaded Cosmic now to test if this works there and it has the same problem (thunar 1.8.1)
<ondondil> So I'll mention that in bug report
<ondondil> middle click works fine in bionic (thunar 1.6.15)
<Spass> knome, ok, I found it in the WP and removed the G+ link from the footer also, but please let me know if I did something wrong or unwanted here
<Spass> I'll revert the changes asap if needed
<brainwash> ondondil: so, it could be something to do with the gtk2 -> gtk3 rewrite, or some individual change to how the pathbar works
<Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio stands on the shoulders of the giants in here. Thanks all!
<Eickmeyer> https://ubuntustudio.org/2019/04/ubuntu-studio-19-04-released/
<pleia2> happy release day :)
<pleia2> I see bluesabre has a draft release post for the site
<pleia2> updated the Release page to add the torrent link, don't have a docs link yet
<pleia2> Spass: social media changes on the site look good!
<pleia2> knome: so it looks like we just need /download updated (I don't remember how) and the blog post published
<pleia2> oh and docs published
<Spass> pleia2, ok thanks :) now I'll try to add the default wallpaper image to the release site, hope I know how
<Spass> ok, it worked
<Spass> oops, the issue I've reported before with Adwaita theme and icons instead of Greybird and elementary is on the screen in the OMG! Ubuntu article :/
<Spass> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/04/ubuntu-19-04-flavours-whats-new
<pleia2> doh :)
<Spass> I'll try to report that to the author
<brainwash> not that rare then
<brainwash> I think I've only encountered it once
<Spass> I had it three times on disco :(
<brainwash> the bug report we had for this was closed due to lack of information or so
<brainwash> bug 1798148
<ubottu> bug 1798148 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Live session booting with wrong GTK and icon theme" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798148
<Spass> ok cool, they changed the screenshot in the article :) mission was successful
<ochosi> Eickmeyer: congrats on your release!
<Eickmeyer> ochosi: Thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-19
<knome> ugh, gutenberg
<knome> pleia2, where's the docs?
<knome> do we really even have changed since 1810, eg. could we just symlikn?
<knome> symlink too
<knome> ^ doing that
<knome> the website is in an "ok" state now ;)
<knome> bug #1825475, bug #1825478
<ubottu> bug 1825475 in Xubuntu Website "Torrent link for 32-bit image needs to be hideable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825475
<ubottu> bug 1825478 in Xubuntu Website "Migrate assets to Gutenberg or get Classic Editor plugin installed" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825478
<Spass> Adwaita GTK changed in disco, and it seems like Xubuntu disco has new GTK3 styling, but old GTK2 styling for Adwaita, look here - https://ibb.co/BsZ9TMc
<Spass> new Adwaita has more brownish color scheme, old is more blueish
<Spass> but I need to confirm that on a fresh install also, maybe it's specific to my configuration
<brainwash> Spass: isn't xfwm4-settings still a gtk2 app?
<brainwash> xfwm is still on 4.12, and not 4.13
<Spass> looks like it, that's why the styling is not right, Adwaita GTK2 uses old colors, while new Adwaita (GTK3) is different now, so GTK3 and GTK2 apps look different
<Spass> so this looks deprecated - "/usr/share/themes/Adwaita-dark/gtk-2.0"
<Spass> "This is the GTK+ 2 version of Adwaita. It's whole purpose is to look as the GTK+ 3 version as much as possible until GTK+ 2 dies completely."
<bluesabre> Spass: Yeah, I'm pretty sure the gtk2 theme is no longer maintained. It's been getting further away from the gtk3 theme over the years, and the color change was probably the final break :)
<Spass> yeah, good buy Adwaita then :) good that I have trillion other great themes to choose
<pleia2> twitter and fb updated
<Spass> rip google+
<pleia2> heh :)
<Spass> oh wow, I just saw what I wrote before, goodbye* ;)
<ali1234> Spass can you recommend a theme that has light panels?
<Spass> ali1234, sure, I don't usually use themes with light panels and there aren't too many of them (good ones), but try Plata-Lumine-Compact - https://gitlab.com/tista500/plata-theme
<Spass> and there's also Mojave Light - https://github.com/vinceliuice/Mojave-gtk-theme
<ali1234> okay testing
<ali1234> plata takes a ridiculously long time to compile
<ali1234> plata doesn't install properly
<Spass> hmm, well you could download it from here and extract the .deb (or just install of course) - https://launchpad.net/~tista/+archive/ubuntu/plata-theme/+build/16649823
<ali1234> ochosi: i just found something regarding the "empty space in panel" thing
<ali1234> i have an empty space on one virtual desktop, and on another i have a random button that fits in the empty space. and it draws *over* the other buttons on that panel
<ali1234> and it happened when changing the gtk theme - changing it again made the problem go away
<ali1234> with mojave the menus are all messed up https://i.imgur.com/MSfNKUS.png
<ali1234> and i havent seen vertical alignment this bad since the last time i installed kde https://i.imgur.com/2kjocWw.png
<ali1234> it does however have a light panel so that is something
<ali1234> plata has dark panels and apparently no gtk2 variant and just generally looks broken https://i.imgur.com/xzy1yc1.png
<ali1234> got any more for me to try?
<ali1234> plata looks like it would be good if it worked
<Spass> Plata looks fine on my Xubuntu, do you have pixbuf and murrine engines installed?
<Spass> speaking about KDE. you can try Breeze light GTK theme, it should be in the repos
<Spass> oh, and Breeze has its own Xfwm theme, it's in a separate package, I think
<ali1234> yes i have pixbuf and murrine engines installed
<ali1234> breeze isn't bad. you can definitely tell it is a KDE theme though - everything is misaligned
<ali1234> it is at least usable if adwaita stops working though
<Spass> something is wrong with your Plata theme for sure, you should see 6 variants of that theme on the list, how did you install it?
<Spass> https://i.imgur.com/fTsTK4V.png
<ali1234> i installed sassc, ran autogen.sh, then make, then DESTDIR=~/.local/share/themes make install, then mv ~/.local/share/themes/usr/share/themes/Plata ~/.local/share/themes
<ali1234> and no i only see one, Plata
<ali1234> ah i see the problem
<ali1234> i only copied one of the themes it installed
<Spass> yeah, there are 6 folders there
<Spass> 6 variants
<ali1234> so "Plata-Lumine" actually has light panels and does not randomly draw the menus black
<Spass> Plata-Light-Compact is what you looking for probably, but copy all nonetheless, because some files may be symlinked to main Plata
<Spass> (not Light, Lumine)
<ali1234> i can't understand why anyone would want their menus to randomly be black, but this seems to be the only difference in -Lumine
<ali1234> no, it says Lumine on mine
<Spass> yes, I've made a mistake calling it Light
<ali1234> also every single one of these themes makes the panel have bold text in random places?
<ali1234> adwaita doesn't do that?
<ali1234> and still the plata gtk2 theme doesn't work
<ochosi> ali1234: that finding about "empty panel space" sounds weird. not sure what to make of it tbh...
<ochosi> if you have a meaningful conclusion / hint for me, lemme know :)
<Spass> ali1234, yeah it uses bold text in too many places, it's really hard to find a really refined theme with light panels, that works good on Xfce unfortunately
<ali1234> it seems definitely related to workspaces, perhaps they are not recalculated properly in some cases
<ali1234> i think what happened is that firefox moved workspace due to raising itself because i clicked on the imgur link in the screenshot tool
<ali1234> and the panel saw that and moved the button but did not recalculate the positioning
<ali1234> then when i changed theme it recalculated everything
<ali1234> Spass mojave seems like the best one i tried so far... everything works except the weird menu spacing which looks like a drop shadow problem to me
<Spass> disco dingo really doesn't like Plank :/ it keeps crashing when I want to move an item, probably related to that 0x0 Xorg bug and "GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1"
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-20
<bluesabre> Spass_laptop: I haven't had any issues with Plank in disco
<Spass_laptop> ok, so probably something on my side, it wasn't a fresh install
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=12981
<brainwash> maybe there should be a some clarification about this
<brainwash> an upgrade may not pick up new changes
<brainwash> ochosi: the buttons (back, forward, up, home) in thunar's top bar are smaller when using elementary-xfce-darker
<brainwash> compared to -dark and regular elementary-xfce
<brainwash> bug?
<brainwash> smaller looks better
<brainwash> noticed that after reading https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14449
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14449 in General "Incorrect size in pathbar icons" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> brainwash: oh right, hadn't noticed because i use -darker myself
<ochosi> the reason is probably the additional size definitions in elementary-xfce over -darker
<ochosi> MinSize=8
<ochosi> MaxSize=512
<ochosi> that's likely what leads to those icons adjusting in size
<ochosi> feel free to test if you have time, i likely won't get to that tonight
<brainwash> will try
<brainwash> ochosi: indeed. removing the MinSize/MaxSize for [actions] makes the symbolic icons smaller.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-04-21
<ochosi> brainwash: on second thought, the theme is behaving correctly (apart from -darker), either thunar should specify 16px as icon size or we have to supply a sharp symbolic 24px version of the go-* icons
<brainwash> ochosi: that sounds like it should be fixed in thunar, so that it looks best with any theme
<brainwash> but the thunar maintainer is pro bigger icons
<ochosi> in that case i'll try to add 24px icons in elementary-xfce
<ochosi> it doesnt look too bad in adwaita btw
<ochosi> and in elementary upstream it also looks okay
<ochosi> i have a patch for that half-ready
<ochosi> guess i can finish it up tomorrow
<brainwash> awesome
<Spass> hello, we should mark 16.04 as EOL soon - https://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<Spass> that was a good release :)
<Spass> oh, it's marked already
<Spass> is it automatic or someone had to do it manually?
<knome> Spass, automatic
<Spass> ah cool, thanks
<knome> each release has an EOL date set
<knome> so we only need to work on them when inserting
<knome> (and point releases)
<knome> for the torrent links
<ochosi> brainwash: this is how the fix looks: https://imgur.com/nBcA07X.png
<brainwash> ochosi: looks good
<brainwash> icon theme fix or thunar code change?
<ochosi> icon theme fi
<ochosi> x
<brainwash> okay
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-13
<jphilips> anyone know the package to file mouse bugs against
<bluesabre> jphilips: whats the bug? could be xfce4-settings for some issues, or the kernel for others
<Unit193> Or synaptics.
<jphilips> bluesabre: one tester with a lenovo flex found that if he twists the 360 screen, the trackpad stops
<bluesabre> jphilips: probably need to report that against the kernel
<jphilips> yep someone suggested the same. thanks bluesabre
<jphilips> unfortunately we missed the opportunity to be mentioned on the latest ubuntu podcast as we didnt have release notes. https://youtu.be/fqRMWEnZJjs?t=1124
<brainwash> jphilips: you see this too? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16383
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16383 in General "Crash when closing transient window with CSD" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> the crash may not be noticeable because xfwm4 is automatically restarted
<brainwash> and you may see only a brief screen flicker
<surveyor3[m]> Hello, do you receive this message?
<surveyor3[m]> I am just testing if I entered correctly to the chat
<jphilips> brainwash: yes happened here
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-14-1-released-tp58359.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
<jphilips> other than catfish, which other apps have CSD?
<jphilips> patch has been provided for those willing/able to test - https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit?id=ad33f686d645a89b6894e2abd9f3c2b6edf67301
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> got the crash on launchpad - bug 1872509
<ubottu> bug 1872509 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "xfwm4 crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872509
<jphilips> someone on twitter was asking to translate our docs and installer to the Gilaki language - https://twitter.com/AlirezaMAhmadi/status/1249609792991232000
<brainwash> jphilips: you say that catfish does not use CSD by default?
<brainwash> I think it does since 1.4.12
<jphilips> brainwash: no doesn't in xubuntu
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/apps/catfish/tree/ChangeLog
<brainwash> - All dialogs now use client-side decorations and are modal
<brainwash> maybe disabled in xubuntu
<FurretUber> Hi, I'm testing the live media for the bug 1870641 but I'm unsure the ISO I downloaded is the correct one. It was on daily-live, sha256sum 009c846c5596d7b4454a7b8eb7ca804a53dd7c58abf2e438da68e91018958133
<ubottu> bug 1870641 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd doesn't open on login, making the system look ugly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870641
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-14
<bluesabre> FurretUber: that should be correct
<surveyor3[m]> What would be the new default for Software? Snapt store or gnome-software?
<Unit193> 'Software' is gnome-software.
<jphilips> bluesabre: this is now its fixed in ubuntu mate - https://github.com/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-settings/blob/master/debian/ubuntu-mate-live-settings.preinst
<jphilips> is how* its
<surveyor3[m]> Unit193: yes, I mean: will be installed by default gnome-software or snap store?
<surveyor3[m]> Also what about flatpak?
<Unit193> I'm sorry, I'm not precisely sure what your question is then.
<jphilips> i had a weird experience after installing 20.04 weeks ago and when i upgraded, the snap store got added and update-manager told me gnome-software was redundant
<ochosi> "there was an error verifying your email."
<ochosi> sry, wrong chan
<Unit193> It *is* pretty sketchy.
<genii> Heh
<Unit193> ochosi: Transifex?
<ochosi> github
<Unit193> Oh, github is sketchy too!
 * Unit193 ducks.
<ochosi> it is!
<Unit193> Glad you're going with Microsoft hosting.
<ochosi> always
<ochosi> i try to use as much microsoft as i can
<Unit193> Eh, I feel there's no hosted git solutions I actually like.  GitLab is total garbage, Bitbucket isn't as good as it used to be, and I never was interested in GitHub.  I wonder if there's a *good* hosted gitea...
<Unit193> PS: I finally properly set up discard_if_from in listadmin, so I don't need to poke someone to blacklist an email domain.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-15
<bluesabre> Unit193: I moved my team at work to gitlab last year... it's better than what we had, but things are just in dumb places. Now that Github teams are free (and Github is better than Gitlab), I may very well move them again.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, I'm finding out with Salsa that I really don't like it. :/
<Unit193> bluesabre: I made wireguard-linux-compat syncable from Debian!
<brainwash> is this a debian packaging issue? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16696
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16696 in General "Cannot create email from within Firefox" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> libexo-helpers.install does this:
<brainwash> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/exo/-/blob/debian/master/debian/libexo-helpers.install
<brainwash> thunderbird.desktop helper file contains this:
<brainwash> X-XFCE-CommandsWithParameter=/usr/share/xfce4/exo/exo-compose-mail mozilla-remote %B "mailto:%s";/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/exo/exo-compose-mail mozilla %B "mailto:%s";
<brainwash> second part is wrong
<Unit193> Wouldn't it make sense to have those in libexec?
<brainwash> but this looks right:
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/tree/exo-helper/helpers/thunderbird.desktop.in.in
<brainwash> so
<brainwash> this is wrong? https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/tree/exo-helper/helpers/Makefile.am#n64
<brainwash> but it looks right in archlinux
<brainwash> X-XFCE-CommandsWithParameter=/usr/lib/xfce4/exo/exo-compose-mail mozilla-remote %B "mailto:%s";/usr/lib/xfce4/exo/exo-compose-mail mozilla %B "mailto:%s";
<brainwash> Unit193: you got an explanation for that? :)
<brainwash> it has to be something with the debian packaging if it's not broken in archlinux
<Unit193>         sed -i -e '/X-XFCE-CommandsWithParameter=.*exo-compose-mail/ s#lib/$(DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH)#share#' \
<Unit193>                 debian/tmp/usr/share/xfce4/helpers/*.desktop
<Unit193> > no g
<Unit193> One letter would fix this, awesome.
<Unit193> brainwash: Nice catch.
<brainwash> great
<Unit193> (I can't do an upload right now.)
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you think you will be able to do an upload today? Final Freeze is tomorrow, so planning on tackling a few things if I can.
<Unit193> Should be.
<bluesabre> Awesome
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> and xfwm4 4.14.1?
<ochosi> will that one make it?
<albinard> Installed the Xubuntu Core ISO dated 04/15 on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM.  Clean install, very quick, currently running well.
<ochosi> good to hear
<bluesabre> ochosi: possibly, need to package and test it
<ochosi> contains quite a few niceties
<Unit193> bluesabre: Err...exo doesn't build without any changes.
<Unit193> Updating chroot, will re-try.
<Unit193> Sweet, bad gcc.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/uH1u8QCjLep3WGSyRHOt/
<surveyor3[m]> Do I have to create only reproducible butg?
<bluesabre> Unit193: shew
<Unit193> Some pretty good errors too.
<bluesabre> surveyor3[m]: Ideally. If we canât reproduce it, itâs hard for us to fix it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for packaging that exo fix
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to test something?
<bluesabre> Nevermind, I was apparently due for a reboot
<bluesabre> xfwm looks good to me
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-16
<bluesabre> Unit193: were there any issues blocking us from the latest thunar?
<bluesabre> jphilips: re snap store, I think there might be an ubuntu-specific package that pulled it in. It's a snaps-only version of gnome-software. I didn't get it from installing (been running 20.04 for a while), but manually installed it to compare
<Unit193> bluesabre: I never finished that in debian because I got blocked on d/copyright.  (I should fix it, but I don't want to re-write it.  So I just procrastinated rather than doing anything.)
<bluesabre> Unit193: gotcha. I'll probably test it briefly and then do an ubuntu upload
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm amused by this, should I do it for 20.04? https://github.com/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-settings/commit/3798a33b769a76103ac52e83dbd0b0133fad0241?short_path=2b5ec6c#diff-2b5ec6c5cb5771c0e44d5655c512c422
<Unit193> It's a pretty low risk place to do something like that, but dpkg-divert isn't really great.  For one thing, it can only be done once, so you'll get errors if you try to install both packages.
<bluesabre> But hopefully not many people install (x)ubuntu-(mate-)live-settings at the same time
<Unit193> Precisely why I said it was low risk, it's only for the live image.
<Unit193> In an ideal world, this would be an alternative.
<bluesabre> that's not good
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/RxzRzA1.png
<kryten> Unexpectedly much desktopy!
<kryten> And well, I only got the actual Desktop one there, but even then it looks kinda out of place in this view.. :3
<Unit193> Want to try new thunar, kryten?
<bluesabre> Shew, looks like it was a bad local installed elementary-xfce
<bluesabre> Bizaaaaaaarrrrreeee
<kryten> Unit193: I feel like that's a trick question.. â__â
<Unit193> dh_shlibdeps -X debian/thunar/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libthunar-tpa.so -- \ -dRecommends debian/thunar/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libthunar-tpa.so -dDepends  but that is never used. >_<
<Unit193> bluesabre: Good news.  Curious, do you scan buildlogs? :>
<Unit193> Aka, did you notice that "defined, but unused" note?
<bluesabre> Unit193: generally scan them, yeah
<bluesabre> The defined, but unused I've learned to ignore
<bluesabre> *shame on me*
<Unit193> That's one to look into, used but undefined is fine.
<bluesabre> I'll keep an eye out going forward
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, I take it you have a thunar package in the works? Any yeah, seems the way too many desktops was a local /not-thunar issue
<Unit193> Well, not precisely?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/FaxTvqr1xxL5aAirODIR is what I had, only started.
<Unit193> (That ends up being: Recommends: libxfce4panel-2.0-4 (>= 4.13.0))
<bluesabre> Unit193: gotcha
<bluesabre> neat. https://imgur.com/Jn0JXX8
<bluesabre> Unit193: uploading a thunar 1.8.14 package (bare minimum ubuntu package bump)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Divert default Ubiquity Ubuntu branding with Xubuntu branding (LP: #1867515); release 20.04.3 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c1de4e8cc1f4ec0332ff36ec442bf1ea72d4b5c0 (by Sean Davis)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add the missing new files for the previous commit @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=e32770385757008dceda3e477e628274ca4b6eeb (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> I think that's everything I meant to do today.
<Unit193> \o/
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: awesome sauce, thanks! :)
<surveyor3[m]> I have limited data plan, if I install on a virtual machine Xubuntu 20.04 and just update through the updater is it enough to test it or I have to download the daily ISO?
<Unit193> THe first can be very useful, specifically to point out stuff that we might not see or otherwise file bugs.
<surveyor3[m]> Thank you Unit193
<brainwash> Unit193: you could have referenced bug 1870376
<ubottu> bug 1870376 in exo (Ubuntu) "lib exo inexistent link" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870376
<Unit193> brainwash: Ah, didn't see it as you linked https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16696 then started discussing it.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16696 in General "Cannot create email from within Firefox" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> same here, I was checking launchpad exo bugs only today 
<brainwash> bluesabre even commented on that lp report
<bluesabre> and I never do that
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> How's everybody doing?
<jphilips> bluesabre: 2 people reported this issue in the last day - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/469213
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 469213 in thunar (Ubuntu) "[Thunar] Using extract here, folder disappearing after 1 second" [Undecided,Invalid]
<bluesabre> jphilips: that bug's been around forever :)
<jphilips> oh okay so nothing new. is it an thunar bug and is it reported upstream?
<brainwash> it is
<brainwash> it's not about disappearing folders though, but about them being named "blabla (2)"
<brainwash> which is invalid
<brainwash> you refresh and get the correct "blabla"
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16093
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16093 in General "Folder is not refreshed after extracting archives" [Normal,New]
<jphilips> not sure forever equals less than 6 months ago, atleast according to the bug report
<jphilips> was there a reason why we dont ship the new folder thumbnailer added in xfce 4.14
<Unit193> jphilips: Oh, in case you didn't see the notice, rebuilt core.
<Unit193> Since you asked and all.
<jphilips> Unit193: no didnt see it. thanks
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: accepted xfwm4 [source] (focal-proposed) [4.14.1-0ubuntu1]
<Unit193> Guess someone didn't think it was too much of a bump
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: accepted exo [source] (focal-proposed) [0.12.11-1ubuntu1]
<bluesabre> Unit193: I suspect they may block xubuntu-default-settings, since it's a graphical change, but I think everything else should land
<bluesabre> though we don't have screenshots anywhere (except my blog)
<jphilips> graphical, but a bug :D
<Unit193> Not a bug.
<bluesabre> Ubuntu flavors are still Ubuntu after all, not a bug, just branding... if anything it's an undocumented hack ;)
<bluesabre> A hack I'm willing to do because the leader of Ubuntu Mate became the desktop lead, so his example is clearly not too frowned upon :D
<jphilips> incorrect branding is a bug in my view
<Unit193> Xubuntu is Ubuntu, soo not incorrect.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd like tot see that with alternatives in the future, not that you're in control of that. :3
<jphilips> repeat: was there a reason why we don't ship the new folder thumbnailer added in xfce 4.14
<jphilips> https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/tumbler#customized_thumbnailer_for_folders
<Unit193> I seem to remember from a distro standpoint there was something crappy about enabling it, while from a userstandpoint it was easier, or cleaner, or something.
<brainwash> jphilips: probably because there was no request to do it
<jphilips> we have a number of thumbnailing scripts enabled by default already, so adding one more so users don't have to manually do it with sudo seems like a big win to me
<jphilips> brainwash: let me file one then :D
<Unit193> There was more to it than that...From what I remember.
<jphilips> well if you do remember or find anything about it, please do add your comment - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1873268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1873268 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Enable Xfce 4.14 folder thumbnailing" [Undecided,New]
<dawid_mlyn> Hello World : )
<dawid_mlyn> I was testing xubuntu core as my main Operating System on my old macbook 3.1 (from late 2007).
<jphilips> hi dawid_mlyn. anything to report about xubuntu core?
<dawid_mlyn> When it boots from USB key the keyboard is not working properly - i.e. only a few keys are active, as if the numlock was on. The issue is, there is no numlock key, as this is a laptop.
<dawid_mlyn> So I could not enter the user name or password until I figured out, that I can run 'numlockx toggle' command, to turn the numerical keys off.
<Unit193> Sounds like laptop-detect doesn't think your laptop is a laptop.
<Unit193> In lightdm, there's a script enabled to try and check.  You should be able to disable that, or remove numlockx.
<dawid_mlyn> Yeah, I was not sure where to set it up. I looked at /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/50-xubuntu-numlock.conf and /etc/default/numlockx
<dawid_mlyn> In the end I solved it by creating empty file named 'numlockx toggle', so I could copy the command and paste it in the terminal. Once I had my keyboard working, I installed the OS and after booting from SSD, I have modified /etc/default/numlockx
<Unit193> Well as noted, you could simply remove the package to solve that issue.  But you can also see what laptop-detect says (laptop-detect;echo $?)
<Unit193> Ah.
<dawid_mlyn> Give me a few minutes. I'll check it now.. I just need to boot the macbook
<dawid_mlyn> It returns '1'.
<dawid_mlyn> I have downloaded the newest ISO just now. Will check the result again when I boot from the USB.
<dawid_mlyn> https://i.imgur.com/26sMZEJ.png
<dawid_mlyn> It is the same when I boot from USB.
<Unit193> Congrats, your laptop is a desktop! :P
<dawid_mlyn> https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.2-white-13-late-2007-santa-rosa-specs.html
<dawid_mlyn> This white macbooks used to be quite popular back in the day.. I wonder why laptop detection is not working. Where should I report it to further investigate it?
<Unit193> What's it say when you run it with -v?  If you file a bug on LP about this, please be sure to include debug output.
<dawid_mlyn> It says "We're not on a laptop (no relevant hint found)".
<dawid_mlyn> 1
<dawid_mlyn> The battery is dead on this machine, but that should not be enough to fool laptop-detection script..
<Unit193> Correct, that shouldn't.  Honestly?  For best results, likely on https://gitlab.com/debiants/laptop-detect would be the most likely to get it fixed.
<Unit193> (Also I need sleep, so my English is terrible right now, as you can see.)
<dawid_mlyn> I can understand you pretty well ; ) Thanks for checking it with me : )
<dawid_mlyn_on_ma> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 0, 24 bytesBIOS Information	Vendor: Apple Inc.	Version:     MB31.88Z.008E.B02.0803051832	Release Date: 03/05/08
<dawid_mlyn_on_ma> Handle 0x0011, DMI type 1, 27 bytesSystem Information	Manufacturer: Apple Inc.	Product Name: MacBook3,1	Version: 1.0
<dawid_mlyn_on_ma> This is from "sudo dmidecode", so it knows that it is MacBook3,1
<Eickmeyer> We've got an interesting bug for ristetto. (bug 1873244). Turns out ristretto believes there is more to the image and makes the windows "scrollable" when it's not. It's apparent in materia, but not so much in other themes that use a gradient.
<ubottu> bug 1873244 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "blue corner" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873244
<Eickmeyer> Not sure how to push this one upstream.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think everything we uploaded yesterday got accepted :)
<Unit193> Nothing of ours sitting in the queue.
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you understand the bug report here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1873318 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1873318 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "xfwm4 shows staircase screen with amd Raven2 graphics" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> At the very least, I don't notice any issues in his screenshot
<bluesabre> Unit193: (sorry for the sudden spam), are you able to symlink https://docs.xubuntu.org/1910/ to https://docs.xubuntu.org/2004/ since we're currently limited on building the docs?
<Unit193> I do not see the issue either.  I can do that, but one can still build the docs on older releases (but that's what's in the archive, sooo.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://docs.xubuntu.org/2004/
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks a bunch :)
<Unit193> I wonder if 'latest' shouldn't instead be what's in git master.
<bluesabre> I'll let you make that decision :)
<Unit193> Did you see compton stopped in '17, and has since been forked?
<ochosi> it has?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I did not. Haven't used compton in a little while.
<Unit193> ochosi: https://github.com/chjj/compton/commits/master - https://github.com/yshui/picom
<ochosi> anything notable about the fork?
<Unit193> Dunno, just know it exists.
<bluesabre> Neat.
<ochosi> hah
<Unit193> ochosi: Also note, it's not in Debian (thus Ubuntu)
<ochosi> "The current battle plan of this fork is to refactor it to make the code possible to maintain, so potential contributors won't be scared away when they take a look at the code."
<Unit193> :D
<jphilips-live> where can i find the syslog file?
<jphilips-live> catfish is taking to long to find it
<jphilips-live> had a error during installation. seems i always seem to be getting this error.
<jphilips-live> https://i.imgur.com/ldxSRCw.png
<Unit193> You'll want to look in /var/log/syslog, and likely /var/log/installer/
<jphilips-live> had this same error when i installed 19.10
<jphilips-live> is the service that catfish is reliant on, installed by default?
<jphilips-live> when i say service, it my be an app
<Unit193> catfish uses either find or locate, depending on which you select.
<jphilips-live> there is no means to select either in the UI. are both find and locate installed by default
<jphilips-live> seems both are installed
<jphilips-live> thanks Unit193. restarting now into my install. gonna spend a week dogfooding on real hardware
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-17
<Unit193> bluesabre: Perhaps late, but kryten poked me about teaming up to fix the docs, they're pretty fixed just not reviewed. :P
<Unit193> 6 files changed, 10 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
<Unit193> Translations still aren't coming in.
<bluesabre> jphillips needs to refresh his locate database
<Unit193> Live session
<bluesabre> It's also slow if he's searching from /
<bluesabre> Unit193: master branch of xubuntu-docs?
<bluesabre> No way to bring the translations automatically with git, gotta export them and apply
<Unit193> Ouch.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/h9vaXLz2aFLI9CfWO2OZ
<bluesabre> Neat
<bluesabre> If it works, go ahead and apply it
<bluesabre> I'll sync the translations
<Unit193> We don't know if getpot does, you'd have a harder time comparing the files.  How easy is it to export?  Can this be automated
<Unit193> Docs say light-locker is the screen locker, and indicator-application for that... :/
<jphilips> when does the red indicator on the notification plugin appear
<jphilips> what are people's thoughts of bundling some of the same themes bundled with studio, as they are already in the repo
<bluesabre> Unit193: server-side, yeah, we could do some automation
<bluesabre> jphilips: If we ship it, we support it. We ship Shimmer themes (Greybird, previously Numix) since we maintain them, and Adwaita because GTK pulls it in. If ochosi would be fine with helping to maintain the themes, I wouldn't oppose it. Feel free to bring it up for discussion once we start working on 20.10 :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: okay will send an email to the ML
<jphilips> are we maintaining humanity?
<bluesabre> No, but I think Ubuntu's patched GTK pulls that in. We're a bit limited there, unfortunately. :(
<jphilips> bluesabre: so no way for us to object against this?
<ochosi> me helping to maintain further themes? hahahaa, no way
<ochosi> i'd rather support less themes tbh
<jphilips> so that begs the question, if we don't maintain them, we shouldn't ship them, as we should be able to ship themes from the community that are being maintained as they are not the default theme
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-18
<jphilips> when clicking on an entry in the notification log plugin, isnt it supposed to open the app?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<ochosi> that would be a nice feature, but also inconsistent
<ochosi> because clicking a notification bubble currently closes it
<ochosi> it doesnt open the app
<ochosi> i happily accept patches for the log opening apps though
<jphilips> there is a patch for removing apt-offline from the documentation and it would be good to review it /msg NickServ identify <password>.
<jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1855621?fbclid=IwAR1a93PGfGmJ4Iq2KUvHScD47m4qVzKub_093tuI9nrgvg7SiEZEz6e0pyE
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1855621 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Documentation refers to apt-offline which no longer ships in Focal Fossa" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> jphilips: ..Do you manually identify every time you connect? :o
<jphilips> Unit193: yes, as i set it to do it automatically in hexchat, but cant seem to get it to do it
<jphilips> is it only me or do desktop tooltips not appear in 20.04
<Unit193> I take it you've seen https://freenode.net/kb/answer/hexchat ?
<jphilips> no hadnt seen it
<jphilips> thanks. will give it a go now to see if it works
<jphilips> seems to have worked. thanks again Unit193 
<Unit193> Happy to help.
<jphilips> Unit193: i've been redirecting a number of people wanting to create xubuntu derivatives to core :D
<Unit193> >_<
<Unit193> Someone that has control over Xubuntu bugs account (do people actually read these?) elementary-xfce isn't subbed.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-04-19
<ochosi> Unit193: i seem to not be a member of xubuntu bugs
<ochosi> if that's only an account i don't have the creds afaict
<Unit193> Well, it's a lot of bugmail AFAIK, I'm not either.
<Unit193> It's a team.
<jphilips> i see bluesabre and akxwi-dave are memebers of xubuntu bugs
<jphilips> and  	slickymaster
<Unit193> I guess it's up to him if he wants bugs for that.
<jphilips> reminder to all to contribute to the release notes https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/20.04/release-notes
<jphilips> would like to release it on social media before the release
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, I'll be extending those out today or tomorrow.
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks for the update. do ping once your done.
<Unit193> It's best not to announce a release before it's released.
<jphilips> just the release notes
<jphilips> many publications would want access to it, as mentioned in my ML email
<bluesabre> Kicked gtk-common-themes again, so hopefully we'll have theme-friendly snaps soon, https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gtk-common-themes/-/merge_requests/19
<Deusex25> Good time of day.
<Deusex25> How can I assist with translation to Azerbaijani language?
<Deusex25> I have also heard, that Xubuntu will get a proper Greybird dark theme. There is one very pretty dark theme for XFCE - Xfce-Simple-Dark : https://www.pling.com/p/1150488/
<Deusex25> Is there any chance that this one can be added to distribution as well?
<brainwash> Deusex25: what does it do better when compared to Greybird-dark?
<brainwash> for translation work check the following links
<brainwash> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/
<brainwash> https://docs.xfce.org/contribute/translate/start
<Deusex25> Thanks for the links.
<Deusex25> Well, i have tested the daily build a week (maybe 10 days) ago. So far, the dark theme I've seen  is not as clear and crispy as the one I have suggested.
<Deusex25> Is there any chance you may check the link and screenshots provided there?
<Deusex25> https://cdn.pling.com/img/9/1/d/f/00587d686fdb2e6985c5ef1ec01562d9b8e4.png
<brainwash> and where is a screenshot of Greybird-dark?
<brainwash> ideally, you should provide a side-by-side comparison
<brainwash> and if you have suggestions for further improvement, please report them here https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<Deusex25> Unfortunately for several reasons I cannot do it right now. 
<Deusex25> I cannot get a virtualbox on my PC, as it requires an update, which is blocked by our provider. I'm working on the vessel, and traffic here is getting filtered...
<Deusex25> Why cant we have more than one dark theme? I believe, community would be happy to have a bit bigger selection.
<brainwash> there are more
<brainwash> Adwaita-dark is installed by default too
<brainwash> those two themes are packaged and have good support
<brainwash> supported
<Deusex25> Yes, but Adwaita-dark isn't good for use in dark environment, while the one I've suggested is very comfortable. I know it very well as I have to work over night sometimes.
<Deusex25> Well, I can't say anything about support for this one. I only hope, that somebody from developing team may get a few minutes and check it out. Maybe it will give some good ideas?
<brainwash> you will have to offer a side-by-side comparison
<brainwash> and point of what it better
<brainwash> and point out
<Deusex25> Ok. I see. Will try.
