#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-30
<Azelphur> penguin42: well I'm obviously on the extreme end of the cheap, http://bit.ly/j2onHH
<Azelphur> being so close to a big farm
<penguin42> oh cool, now we have the ICBM location
<Azelphur> oshi- :p
<hamitron> how much was a node using again?
<penguin42> hamitron: about 22ow
<Azelphur> 220ish
<hamitron> k
<Azelphur> penguin42: I've clocked up the GPU's and underclocked the memory too
<Azelphur> so they are running at 960/320 instead of the stock 850/1200
<hamitron> my main complaint with the 5870.... don't have a crossfire board to use them in
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> hamitron: my main pc is tri sli ready :)
<Azelphur> for when nvidia wakes up and fixes the Linux drivers
<hamitron> my pc prob cost only a little more than your motherboard
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> then I'll up to 5 or 6 monitors and SLI
<hamitron> <-- Mr Cheap
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, E-Dracon on my channel calls my motherboard the "OH MY GOD TOO MANY SLOTS" motherboard
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd put my money behind nvidia not creating weak drivers ;)
<Azelphur> shauno: hense why I've still got an 8800GT in the machine
<Azelphur> instead of 3 GTX570's
<hamitron> weak drivers?
<Azelphur> shauno: when they fix up multi display and multi monitor SLI in Linux
<Azelphur> I'd love to start tri screen gaming in wine :)
<Azelphur> wine can handle it, I've done it before in a somewhat uglyhack way
<hamitron> and you can sell me your spare screen? ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: spare? I'd have to buy an extra monitor to account for the loss of one of my IRC monitors :p
<hamitron> or give if you make millions on bitcoin \o/
<Azelphur> I'd go up to 5 or maybe 6 monitors
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> you will need a circular desk, with a lift from the room downstairs to get inside
<Azelphur> hamitron: that's my what to build when I get rich thing
<shauno> naw, 2x3
<hamitron> would it not be cheaper to have some sort of helmet with virtual reality?
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, maybe :P
<shauno> it'd be cheaper just to buy decent-sized monitors in the first place :)
<Azelphur> but the resolution would need to be good
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> shauno: it's resolution I crave tbh
<Azelphur> those 2560x1600 displays...shiny :o
<hamitron> he only wants a higher resolution, so my internet struggles to download his screenshits ;)
<hamitron> screenshots*
<Azelphur> hamitron: it's true, my screenshits are epic.
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/2010-05-10-182013_7680x1200_scrot.png here you go :D
<hamitron> does that have anything useful on it? ;/
<Azelphur> nope lol
 * hamitron sighs
<shauno> that screenshot really makes it look like a game of willy-waving, tbh
<shauno> this is really starting to bug me .. I can't find my x-plane disks anywhere
<shauno> never understood why people are so attached to physical media.  it only ends up like this :/
<hamitron> shauno: I have all mine boxed
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> then a cd wallet with copies
<hamitron> DRM stops me having working copies of some :/
<shauno> yeah, I've struggled making copies of these too
<shauno> well, I only tried twice before I decided DL dvds were too expensive
<hamitron> lucky for me, I don't have many new games
<shauno> old games tend to be easier because they tend to be small & simple enough to just find a new copy online
<shauno> so, I've found dvds labelled 2, 3, 5 & 6.  ugh.
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> cdr are cheap too
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> "cdr, wtf are them?"
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> I don't tend to put them on cdr either.  if I found them, I can find them again
 * hamitron is a sucker for the cereal box games
<shauno> it's been a loooong time since I had anything properly boxed
<shauno> I keep finding manuals of old games diving around my office.  that doesn't happen anymore.  you're lucky if you get a pdf on the cd :/  usually, just a link to publish.com/support/
<shauno> well, found disk 4.  sadly I knew disk 1 wasn't going to be with them, because you need disk 1 to play it
<ging> does anyone know how to renew a dynamic ipv6 ip?
<shauno> do you know how it was assigned in the first place?
<shauno> I mean, are you using dhcpv6, or radv, or ..?
<ging> radvd
<shauno> most chances you simply don't then.  the IP isn't really dynamic, it's generated
<shauno> the local part (last 4 segments) of the address is your mac address, with some padding
<shauno> hah ..
<shauno> "Finally, you need 2 posts (replies to existing threads) in order to be allowed to start a new topic. This is a security feature to prevent automatic spamming."
<shauno> some <expletive>ing support that is
<shauno> hamitron: this'd make you cry.  a game that's 75Gb for a full install :p
<hamitron> download only? ;)
<shauno> hah, nah .. same one I was diving for dvds for
<hamitron> what game?
<hamitron> tbh, I ahve no problem, if I have disks
<hamitron> apart from having to clear junk off my hdd each time
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> my internet would die for a month, if I had to download that :/
<shauno> x-plane, a flight sim.  it's about 600Mb + scenery.  looooots and lots of scenery
<shauno> (lots and lots of optional scenery, I should add)
<hamitron> shauno: is it good?
<hamitron> just looking
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> it's not half bad.  I think I still prefered msfs, but this runs on windows/osx/linux natively
<hamitron> I bought Fly! years ago, but never had a comp to run it at the time
<shauno> now there's a fun jump; linux 3.0-rc1 is out
<shauno> well, not out, branched
<shauno> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=summary
<hamitron> what are the planned changes?
<shauno> *shrugs* a bigger number?
<shauno> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/5/29/204 apparently, but it's groaning atm
<ging> where might i find info about hardware errors other than dmesg ?
<hamitron> Alan Cox has said about removing some old drivers :-o
<hamitron> not confirmed, just a rumour
<hamitron> ;)
 * hamitron looks at his ISA slots
<shauno> irc is a bit boring at 4am.  the yanks are slacking!
<Pendulum> shauno: it's because it's a holiday here and a holiday that people actually do stuff for and with morning parades so people get up relatively early
<shauno> that's no excuse :/  I have to do things tomorrow too
<Pendulum> maybe we're just boring people too :P
<shauno> I accidentally ended up in a parade over there.  it was a whole lot less fun than watching
<Pendulum> haha
<Pendulum> what holiday?
<shauno> labor day
<shauno> the other big one :)
<Pendulum> *snort*
<Pendulum> no parade in my town on labour day :P
<Pendulum> although I've done a fair bit of parade marching myself (all Memorial Day ones) and I do tend to agree that it's less fun. Especially when it's 25C and you're in a wool uniform
<shauno> labor day's the one at the other end of summer, right?
<Pendulum> yes
<Pendulum> most people just have BBQs for that one
<Pendulum> dunno if NYC has a parade because I always left the city for the weekend
<shauno> I lived in a small town that was a honeytrap for rich tourists on boats from chicago
<Pendulum> ah, okay
<shauno> so they used any excuse they could to pull people into main street
<Pendulum> right
<Pendulum> like Disney, but you had to live there :P
<ball> shauno: Are you on the lake then?
<shauno> ball: not anymore, but yeah
<ball> shauno: Where are you now then?
<shauno> ireland :)
<ball> I was talking to some customers today who had recently come back from Ireland
<ball> I've only been there once but I liked it.
<shauno> I've only been here once, but I haven't managed to leave yet :/
<shauno> I used to live http://goo.gl/maps/l1yS
<shauno> until my mother decided she wanted to move to alaska, and I decided it sounded like a good time to leave home
<Pendulum> Alaska is supposedly quite nice in summer
<Pendulum> but, yeah, not sure I'd want to live there
<shauno> oh it looks amazing.  I really want to visit one day
<shauno> but yeah.  winter?  michigan was bad enough for me
<Pendulum> my parents went to Alaska last summer. Drove from Connecticut
<Pendulum> their photos are stunning
<Pendulum> but when I go I am so not driving cross-country
<shauno> mom did that.  they got some nice photos in montana.  and the ferry.
<shauno> other than that, there really is a whole lot of SFA in the middle
<shauno> I really didn't like driving in the states because of that.  anything worth seeing is interspersed with 12+ hours (sometimes days) of staring at cruise control, trying not to fall asleep
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> it's not so bad if you're on the east coast
<ball> shauno: Illinois is cold enough.
<shauno> I fell asleep the first time I drove to indiana :/  that was a pretty harsh lesson
<shauno> (not a dramatic one, just the gut-wrenching moment when you hit a soft shoulder at 80mph)
 * ball nods
<shauno> crap way to wake up
<ball> At least I don't have to shovel snow for a few months yet.
<shauno> doesn't happen here :)  drive 5 hours, hit the edge and turn around :)
<ball> btw.  What is "bike shedding"?
<shauno> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding
<shauno> never heard the term before either, but if you're seeing it where I think you are, the context looks about right
<ball> That's funny.  I've been using BSD for years and never heard that until I started listening to the Ubuntu UK podcast.
<brianb_> hi
<brianb_> have a question re compiling  kernel: Question) if you wanted to compile a newer version kernel what version does the GCC have to be i.e. does it have to be the latest version?
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-brings-out-extra-skinny-eee-pc-x101-running-meego-hands-on/
<nigelb> Morning folks
<popey> lo
<dwatkins> mornin all
 * ball waves
<MartijnVdS> \o
<awilkins> Bah, bank holiday and I have a lovely bank holiday cold.
<dwatkins> bah, awilkins
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> nom nom nom homemade bread
<awilkins> Sounds good. Might get the breadmaker out and do some foccacia
<awilkins> With salt and rosemary sprinkles, natch
<daubers> awilkins: I handmade this for a change :)
 * daubers potters into town
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend a usb headset? Looking for one which is likely to work with Ubuntu - I'm going for USB since I've never had any luck with the audio jack based ones before
<awilkins> Someone here blogs about his Logitech USB 250 just working .. http://nozell.com/blog/2006/09/13/logitech-usb-headset-ubuntulinux/
<awilkins> What I need is an adaptor for the RJ11 port on a Cisco VoIP phone...
<awilkins> .. looks like the only way to get one is to buy a freaking crimper and make one yourself
<awilkins> Hmm. Or go to your friendly neighbourhood geek lab for tools ..
<kvarley> awilkins: I just tested an audio jack based mic and it worked so might get the sennheiser one I wanted =) thanks for the link
<awilkins> kvarley, Excellent, glad your drivers are working straight
<kvarley> awilkins: The never used to so just shows how Ubuntu is more awesome than ever :)
<awilkins> kvarley, It just confirms to me that driver problems are the number one annoyance to the average person
<oimon> which is the best choice for a simple and stable video editor?
<oimon> openshot? pitivi?
<awilkins> Only one I've used is Kino
<ormiret> oimon: I use kdenlive most of the time
<awilkins> Mostly because it drives DV cameras via the firewire port
<oimon> i used kino to extract the dv files but it was quite crashy
<oimon> hmmm just noticed that pitivi is already installed on my lucid box
<oimon> only seems to export in theora format
<gord> yup
<oimon> sucks :(
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<awilkins> My pitivi seems to support Dirac and VP8 also
<oimon> awilkins: i noticed dirac but i don't recognise that format
<awilkins> And whatever ffmpeg container formats I have installed
<oimon> trying openshot now
<awilkins> Try changing the container, they have their own codecs
<awilkins> Dirac is a wavelet codec developed by the BBC
<awilkins> It's not especially popular, but it is patent free and open source
<oimon> awilkins: doh i didn't notice the container changes things
<awilkins> I saw a reasonably impressive encode of Big Buck Bunny in Dirac
<awilkins> oimon, It wasn't immediately obvious, was it
<oimon> nope, and i rarely edit video on ubuntu since i usually just take clips on my phone
<oimon> thought i would save some 10 yr old video from the digital cassettes i have lying around
<oimon> i wonder what formats will be useful in future
<MartijnVdS> oimon: mpeg (2,4), jpeg, png are good guesses for long-term formats
<MartijnVdS> Lots of inertia
<oimon> ok thx
<MartijnVdS> oimon: and if you want to be sure (and have disk space to burn) also a lossless format (png, flac, don't know one for video :)
<awilkins> I'd probably go with MPEG4, most things support it now, even a lot of consumer DVD players
<oimon> anyone notice a tearing/ horizontal lines effect after importing from dv cameras? seen it a lot on win and linux
<awilkins> Interlace
<awilkins> Like a comb?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that's interlaced
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video
<MartijnVdS> you'll have to deinterlace, or use interlaced formats all the way through (so your TV can properly deinterlace)
<oimon> MartijnVdS: like this http://ubuntuone.com/p/wR0/
<oimon> that's an extreme case
<MartijnVdS> oimon: is that during horizontal movement?
<awilkins> Definitely interlace
<MartijnVdS> it looks like some deinterlacing is being done, but the wrong algorithm was chosen
<oimon> yes
<MartijnVdS> http://www.100fps.com/
<MartijnVdS> oimon: read that page :)
<gord> for the bitcoin fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcn8cNCk9hM
<awilkins> Total Che Guevara wannabe beard....
<MartijnVdS> gord: is that you in the video?>
<gord> i am not bitcoin rich :P
<gord> or have a turtles bandana
 * awilkins has 0.02 bitcoins, he thinks
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: hah, me too
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: from the faucet?
<awilkins> Yup, from the faucet
<awilkins> Germany are shutting all their nuke plants by 2022. We're either all i) doomed or ii) saved
<awilkins> i) Because demands to follow suit from other democratic nations will create an enormous demand for more fossil fuels in electricity
<awilkins> ii) Because people will devote more effort to actually fixing the energy problem (hopefully with research into fusion)
<oimon> ok after exporting from the video editor, it seems to have been deinterlaced and the effect is minimal
<gord> iii) be fine because i don't live in germany
 * jacobw thinks ii)
<jacobw> and iii)
<gord> the great thing about working in an online company is that you can log in during your bank holidays just to look at all the poor people who live in different countries having to work ;)
<jacobw> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/30/0237259/Linus-Renames-2640-Kernel-To-Linux-30-Announces-Release-Candidate
<MartijnVdS> Love the release email
<nperry> !minecraft
<nperry> :<
 * jacobw is surprised we don't have a factoid for minecraft
<MartijnVdS> Don't feed the addiciton
<dutchie> nperry: #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<daubers> o/
 * daubers wonders where he put the spray paint
<daubers> smells like spray paint in that room now
<daubers> smells like pink elephants
<penguin42> do pink elephants smell different from grey ones?
<penguin42> daubers: Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBnyM1l8B8o&playnext=1&list=PLA40981174343B8D3
<daubers> penguin42: Maybe not quite like that...
<MartijnVdS> daubers: When will you decide on library/geeknic date? :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Ooooh... good point. Should do that this evening really
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (so I can book my ticket/hotel/etc. :))
<MartijnVdS> daubers: sounds like a good time to decide :)
<daubers> I'll give it to late this evening and then close it. Looks like Sat 23rd July will be best at the minute :)
<dutchie> ooh, no
 * dutchie will be in torquay :(
 * dutchie quickly votes on doodle
<daubers> Heh
<dutchie> daubers: bump on the ML too?
<daubers> dutchie: Good idea
<daubers> Sent
<brianb_> have a question re compiling  kernel: Question) if you wanted to compile a newer version kernel what version does the GCC have to be i.e. does it have to be the latest version?
<MartijnVdS> brianb_: Follow this guide if you really want to compile your own kernels: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
 * DJones checks the cricket score and finds that England have beaten Sri Lanka after taking 8 wickets in an hour, didn't expect that, thought it was an easy draw after both sides batting
<penguin42> brianb_: Normally no
<penguin42> brianb_: Normally the kernel works with a reasonable range of gcc's, but every so often there is a gcc bug found where the kernel guys just give up on it
<brianb_> thanks penguin42
<ando> Has ubuntu updated network manager recentkly?
<ando> I just turned on my PC after an update and now my network settings have all changed and as far as I can tell the network settings dialog is different
<ando> And very buggy... and nmapplet is no longer installed :(
<Azelphur> popey: was it you that had the nice power usage graphs for your house?
<jacobw> hmm, nm-applet should be updated between releases should it?
<shauno> doesn't look like it; network-manager-gnome is in natty, but not natty-updates
<shauno> (and the last entry in the changelog is 23 march)
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=network-manager-gnome
<diplo> Evening all
<popey> Azelphur: i do have a power graph, yes
<Azelphur> popey: cool, what did you use to do it / how much does it cost?
<shauno> so he shouldn't be getting a new one unless he's subscribed to oneiric.
<popey> i have a currentcost
<popey> and a usb cable
<popey> http://www.currentcost.com/where-to-buy.html
<Azelphur> popey: ty :)
<diplo> Any one tried building Syncany successfully ?
<czajkowski> evening lovelies
<AlanBell> o/
<jacobw> yeah, perhaps he's accidentally dist-upgraded
<jacobw> 'all watched over by machines of loving grace' is on bbc2 now
<jacobw> it should be anyway, i've not actually tuned in yet..
<popey> i note he calls is nmapplet, it's nm-applet
<jacobw> i looked that up before i said anything, i assumed it was a typo on his part.
<ali1234> what software is there for making server graphs besides mrtg and cacti, both of which are horribly over engineered and way too difficult to set up?
<Laney> rrdtool is often used to generate the graphs
<ali1234> i'm writing my own rrdtool scripts now
<ali1234> it seems much easier than using cacti
<ali1234> well according to rrdtool my cpu is at "10 m" degrees C
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-31
<seeker> Bah, BT took down my broadband for engineering work without informing me
<seeker> How hard is it to send an email
<gord> for someone as competent as bt? maybe quite hard ;)
<shauno> now this bugs me .. a command with output I can't seem to redirect away from the terminal
<MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe it's using STDERR?
<danfish> morning
<diplo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<danfish> no more bank holidays until August - how will I cope?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Take some regular days off :)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: true, but the key is not telling the other half or a large list of jobs to do around the house will appear ;)
<danfish> So the kernel is moving to "3" - I wonder what that'll break
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Easy :) Just don't tell. :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: lots of custom build scripts
<danfish> yes, could be messy
<MooDoo_> hello all
<kazade> morning all
<oimon> hello
<DJones> popey: Is this what you were waiting to look at http://event.asus.com/mobile/padfone/ seem to remember you saying about it
<danfish> DJones: that looks like a very nice device. Cheesiest advert though...
<popey> interesting device
<DJones> danfish: I've not looked at the advert, but certainly looks interesting, I guess its usefulness will depend on its specification one details get released
<gord> i refuse on very fundamental grounds to own anything that refers to itself in part or wholly as a "fone" =\
<danfish> DJones: and no price point published - always suspicious ;)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<oimon> considering that a tablet is a luxury device, i guess the people that buy luxury devices don't want to fanny around slotting their phone into a tablet, they would just buy a tablet and have 2 devices rather than 1+extension
<bigcalm> What would make a user who had cron running just fine for years stop working? crontab -e/l still work. Manually running the command it runs also works
<oimon> upgrading the OS?
<oimon> same thing happened to me
<bigcalm> No known change to the OS over the weekend
<danfish> bigcalm: I've had exactly the same - odd
<bigcalm> This is again on a client's server. Same client we are moving from FirstServ to RackSpace
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> bigcalm: hmm just noticed my cron jobs have stopped again on lucid
<bigcalm> Maybe crontab has stopped working all over the world!
<oimon> bug 592114
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 592114 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart doesn't start cron automatically on boot in lucid for server on amd64" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592114
<oimon> bigcalm: i'd be interested to see if cron runs after service cron stop  followed by a start
<bigcalm> It's a RHE server
<oimon> oh...
<bigcalm> Might be something in init.d
<oimon> never had probs on those
<bigcalm> Cron is working for root. A daily backup happened yesterday
<diplo> oimon, bigcalm : was a message on ubuntu server mailing list this morning
<diplo> Pam modules upgraded over the weekend, cron should automatically restart after an upgrade but it doesn't or isn't set to
<diplo> Restarting it has fixed 2 of the peoples problems on there
<bigcalm> #/etc/init.d/crond status
<bigcalm> crond dead but pid file exists
<oimon> i have a different issue,. cron pretends to work after a reboot (i.e. process exists) but doesn't run my jobs until service restart
<gord> bigcalm, weirdly i just noticed that my own cron stuff has stopped running
<bigcalm> GAH
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at the SuperHub yet again
<JGJones> I wonder how long before Opera's extensions for speeddial get copied...
<dogmatic69> JGJones: o.o
<dogmatic69> http://www.technotraits.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/safari-4-new-tab-page.jpg
<dogmatic69> http://www.screenshots-archive.com/files/images/New_Tab_-_Google_Chrome.png
<gord> ah, the new tab page of shame
<dogmatic69> http://screenshots.oahermes.com/internet_explorer/big_19_IE9-New-Tab-Page.png
<gord> "all the stuff you waste far too much time on"
<dogmatic69> they *all* do it
<shauno> $deity bless the 'edit' button.  I don't like safari advertising my taste in websites ;)
<MooDoo> shauno: how about /me likes the edit button :)
<JGJones> dogmatic69, they do speed dial yes...but the Opera 11.50 beta does extensions as a speed dial button - ie a speed dial button would show the current weather, the next the current twitter stream etc.
<JGJones> it's not just a bookmark speeddial.
<dogmatic69> JGJones: like google chrome apps?
<JGJones> doesn't google chrome apps just show logo of the app which you click to then load the app?
<dogmatic69> maybe
<JGJones> dogmatic69, an example - In Oprea I've just installed a weather extension for speed dial and set it to Leeds. The button logo shows me the current weather in Leeds
<JGJones> No need to click on it, the information is there.
<dogmatic69> Weather Report applet :)
<dogmatic69> plus docky, the time drop down and my iphone. dont need more :D
<JGJones> heh - the weather was an example. There's not that many extensions yet but as it's just a beta and it's Opera, it'll take a bit of time before we see a lot more ;-)
<gord> is opera open source yet? never quite understood why they keep it closed
<MartijnVdS> gord: to spite RMS
<gord> would be nice to have it in the repo's is all :)
<JGJones> gord it's still a fantastic browser
<BigRedS> I keep trying opera, and it keeps annoying me
<BigRedS> all software annoys me, though
<BigRedS> but I keep going back to FF just through laziness
<BigRedS> it's already there, and has all the extensions
<JGJones> BigRedS, I suggest you go with OSX - it might annoy you at first, but give it time...after a while, you'll join the Cult of Job and will be unable to see anything wrong, and thus you'll be cured of the fact that software annoy you as OSX can do no wrong ;-)
<BigRedS> Hah
<BigRedS> every time I've tried OSX I've ended up swearing very loudly about arbitrary capitalisation
<WebSprocket_> Web-Sprocket
<Laney> what's one of them then
<oimon> i read that plank (the new docky) also uses unity quicklists: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/video-slingshot-plank-wingpanel-beatbox.html
<oimon> if they get a move on i could see a few unity refugees using this
<ali1234> why would i want to switch from one dock to another? docks are rubbish?
<oimon> unity seems fixed on the LHS and the scroll/concertina thing doesn't work IMO
<ali1234> docks don't work. this is news?
<oimon> i'm a dock user who has tried to use unity and found it lacking
<oimon> i'm sur ethere are many like me
<ali1234> every problem of the unity launcher that isn't a bug also affects every other dock ever made
<oimon> unity fixed to LHS isn't a bug, it's a design decision
<ali1234> it's also not a problem
<ali1234> the problems are things like you can't go directly to a specific window
<ali1234> and you are never sure what will happen when you click on an icon
<oimon> other docks don't behave like unity
<ali1234> will it unminimize something? will it run a new copy? i don't know!
<ali1234> maybe it will warp me to another desktop
<ali1234> there's simply no way of knowing
<oimon> docky has consistent and predictable behaviour as does awn
<ali1234> unless it has separate icons for launchers and running programs (which means it isn't a dock) then it doesn't
<gord> um. if you have an instance running, as evidenced by the arrow to the left of the icon, it will take you to that instance, otherwise launch
<gord> is it that complicated to understand?
<oimon> it has a dot under the icon in docky, and an arrow in unity
<ali1234> gord: yes, actually it is
<gord> i don't think it is
<ali1234> gord: because if i have three instances, which one do i get?
<ali1234> gord: if they are on different workspaces, what then?
<BigRedS> ali1234: then you get a workspace switcher, showing those windows as focused
<ali1234> also just yesterday it stopped even doing that
<ali1234> BigRedS: no, you don't
<oimon> in docky, you can right click and choose.
<gord> your just going back to your wanting to get a specific window issue
<BigRedS> Well, I do
<ali1234> BigRedS: first, it pops up an instance at random
<BigRedS> Oh, yeah
<ali1234> then you click again, and then you get the switcher. sometimes
<BigRedS> I imagine it's not quite random
<BigRedS> but, yes, if you don't like that one you can click again
<oimon> ali1234: you are describing a unity deficiency rather than a dock dieficiency
<BigRedS> ali1234: what should it do?
<ali1234> BigRedS: it should present a unique icon or button for every window
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> I suppose it'd be nice if that were an option
<BigRedS> but it seems terribly unfashionable at the moment
<ali1234> it should also segregate the virtual desktops so that windows from other desktops don't show on the launcher
<gord> i'v used things like that before, its just confusing
<gord> you get eight different firefox icons, no idea which one is which
<BigRedS> nah, that's how my gnome2 is set up to work
<BigRedS> but I don't tend to have many windows from the same app open
<ali1234> gord: there's a difference between you not knowing, and it being UNKNOWABLE
<ali1234> the latter is what unity does
<oimon> ali1234: my point is that these are as-yet unhandled deficiencies in unity, rather than all docks
<gord> ali1234, bashing on unity doesn't make your proposed design work however
<BigRedS> gord: it does work, though
<ali1234> the funny thing is that my proposed design worked just fine for years
<BigRedS> only for some set of workflows, sure
<BigRedS> but natty only works for some set of workflows too
<gord> it doesn't work for the case of having more than one window of a thing open at a time
<gord> which seems to be what its for
<oimon> ali1234: how do you choose a running process when you have 50 windows in your gnome-panel
<ali1234> um... you mean unity doesn;t work when you have more than one window of a thing?
<gord> i mean your proposed design
<ali1234> well, you're completely wrong then
<gord> of course
<BigRedS> gord: his proposed design is how I've had Gnome work for the past seven years or so
<BigRedS> it works fine
<BigRedS> for *some* people
<ali1234> i don't even see what the purpose of multiple workspaces is in unity
<BigRedS> same as anywhere else?
<gord> BigRedS, a panel is different than a dock, a panel has extra information such as a window title, docks have icons
<ali1234> you can't separate tasks because every time you click on the launcher you will get zoomed to another workspace, it's incredibly annoying and distracting
<Twinkletoes> SHould I use ssmtp or postfix if I only want to send log reports by email?  ssmtp is small, but postfix is standard (and I know it).  Any other pros/cons?
<BigRedS> ali1234: you can separate tasks. you've just got to not use the panel...
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, which is part of the deficiency ali1234 is talking about, surely?
<BigRedS> there is no panel, there is only a dock, and the dock doesn't behave similarly enough to a panel for the people who are used to using panels
<gord> BigRedS, ali1234 seems to want an individual icon for each window on a dock, which is not a good fix,
<gord> its basically what window picker applet does
<BigRedS> gord: He's implied a dock-per-workspace would work
<oimon> grouping works for me so long as there is an easy way to choose the correct window each time
<ali1234> if you put an individual icon for each window onto a dock it's no longer a dock
<ali1234> which is why i say what all docks are broken by design
<gord> BigRedS, i'm not talking about workspaces atm - i don't have any opinions on those. don't use them
<BigRedS> gord: ah, someone (I thought ali1234 ) suggested that the dock being global mostly removes the point of workspaces
<BigRedS> I've no idea if it does or not, 'cause I don't use a dock
<ali1234> that too but it's a different point
<BigRedS> Perhaps, on those grounds, I shouldn't be in this discussion :)
<gord> bigcalm, btw, turns out its a cron issue, today cron stopped working for lots of people - just need to restart cron to get it to work, someone's working on a real fix
<shauno> the pam error messages?
<oimon> think i'll leave my updates for a few days
<gord> an update didn't do it, happened on my rarely updated maverick box
<oimon> that stupid weather forecast on my phone has stiched me up again. came to work in flimsy clothes only to be rained upon
<oimon> meanwhile debris and carrier bags are blowing past my 12 floor window in high winds
<DJones> oimon: You believed the weather forecast? Thats a very dangerous thing to do
<oimon> yeah, i'm a mug. now getting thunder
<DJones> Where are you?
<MooDoo> best weather forecast?   look out the window :)
<oimon> i did at the time of getting dressed, and i agreed with the phone
<oimon> and the spidey sense AKA hayfever was tingling too
<DJones> MooDoo: Looking out of the window is more of a weather-now than a weatehr forecast though
<MooDoo> DJones: pah! my plan is ruined :D
<oimon> women have access to better weather forceasts
<JGJones> oimon, I second that...I get the weather forecast from my wife.
<DJones> My wife always asks me what the weather is going to be like
<oimon> DJones: maybe she's just testing you
<JGJones> DJones, risky...it means you get the blame ;-)
<DJones> Nah, just means she can't be bother looking herself ;-)
<oimon> as a pessimist, i usually plan for worst case scenario...and i'm often right :D
<oimon> except today
<DJones> Were the weather is concerned, I'd agree with you
<Twinkletoes> Using postfix, is the name in the From: header taken from /etc/passwd or is there another way to set it?
<Twinkletoes> Oops, wrong channel :)
<BigRedS> Surely you can set that in the headers?
<DJones> Stupid websites offering free music AS LONG as you install itunes & sign up for an account & give bank card details
<iulian> That's not free music anymore, I reckon.
<oimon> DJones: that's a bit like those dumb audiobooks that turn out to be useless audbile files
<iulian> Oh, hence "stupid". :)
<BigRedS> heh. 'audbile'. I'm going to reuse that
<DJones> oimon: I've not seen those, ah well installed, card used from account being closed at the weekend, music downloaded, software uninstalled :)
<oimon> yeah, audible files are enumbered with drm and only work with itunes
<oimon> they don't even work on my mp3 player
<oimon> since you must unlock via itunes or something...i dunno, i never got that far for obvious reasons. althoughi have 5 audible books somewhere in my possession that might as well be /dev/random
<shauno> probably doesn't help you much, but wmp11 will open them too
 * exobuzz is tired
<exobuzz> sleep pattern all broke. got up at 7pm last night.
<oimon> ok if you're australian i guess
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> im trying to resync. not sure ill make it till tonight
<oimon> have a power nap half way through but be strict on timing
<oimon> 15-20 mins power nap can extend wakefulness by a good few hours
<shauno> that never seems to work for me :/  I'll just go to sleep much earlier and sleep for 12 hours
 * dogmatic69 done the ironman sleep thing for a while, 4h up, 20min sleep
<dogmatic69> was good
<shauno> read about that, but haven't had a compatible employer yet
<exobuzz> heh
<oimon> i have a door on my office
<oimon> with a lock :D
<shauno> I nap at work worryingly often, but not reliably enough to be able to schedule it
<exobuzz> if i tried a powernap, id end up sleeping for 9 hours or so. when im tired i will not follow my own "rules" heh
<oimon> i fell asleep while my boss was talking to me about java programming once
<exobuzz> i got a home office, i quite often spent the entire work day in my pants
<shauno> heh, bingo.  I apparently have the ability to silence my phone without waking up
<exobuzz> :)
<shauno> so a 30 minute nap tends to work out to 8-12 hours, if no-one's here to kick me
<exobuzz> my plan now is to drink a few beers and see
<oimon> why do certain android apps require "read phone state and identity"?
<gord> oimon, lets them do things if you get a call or somethiing
<oimon> ..and identity though?
<oimon> wonder why they aren't separated into separate permissinos
<Azelphur> the better question would be why arn't you able to control the permissions system rather than the permissions system controlling you :)
<Azelphur> cyanogen fixes this in the next release, :D
<oimon> Azelphur: how?
<Azelphur> http://cumaini.com/2011/05/new-cyanogenmod-7-nightly-to-install-the-application-without-the-permissions/
<oimon> huzzah
<oimon> cue lots of broken apps but i like it
<Azelphur> :)
<BigRedS> is there any downside to fastcgi rather than cgi?
<BigRedS> for php
<MartijnVdS> Processes run persistent
<MartijnVdS> so they take up memory all the time
<MartijnVdS> instead of only when called
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, googling's suggested that, basically, if it's quiet CGI is less resource hungry, and as it gets busier it overtakes fcgi in usage
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yes, but fastcgi makes it faster -- it can cache things like databsae connections better (or at all :))
<popey> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<BigRedS> Ah, cool. So fcgi is generally faster with a bigger memory footprint
<BigRedS> ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: fcgi is like running it inside apache (mod_php), except it's its own process, which can run as different users.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: cgi is just that it starts one copy for each request, then quits at the end of the request
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got any suggestions why one of my servers can't get to security.ubuntu.com? http://paste.ubuntu.com/615350/
<popey> it can
<popey> the specific packages have been removed by the look of it
<popey> !pam
<popey> bah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
<Laney> there was a cock up
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yet an update isn't clearing them from the list
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IncidentReports/2011-05-31-pam-security-update-breaks-cron
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY Laney
 * popey blames Ng 
<Laney> don't know if the publisher can go back in time like that (i.e. remove the 404s)
<MartijnVdS> who uses cron anyway
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah, cool. cheers!
<Ng> popey: it is literally all my fault
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Yeah - nothing much relies on it does it... ;-)
<popey> #blamecmsj
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: exactly!
<oimon> using maple to calculate factorial of 12345678 ..would you expect that a 64 bit PC running 64bit application calculates the solution 2x as fast as 32bit app?
<MartijnVdS> no
<oimon> not even for pure computation tasks?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: 64 bit CPUs are generally faster at everything, not just computation
<MartijnVdS> oimon: so you can't directly compare
<MartijnVdS> also, instructions-per-clock
<MartijnVdS> also, optimalisation for the specific cpu (hand-coded assembly?)
<oimon> ok what if i run 32bit app and 64bit app on same pc?
<oimon> running 64 bit OS
<popey> there's too many variables for it to be just 2x
<MartijnVdS> oimon: 64 bits also take longer to fetch from memory than 32
<shauno> I'm bored enough to try it, outta nosiness :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: so there might be a problem as well :)
<oimon> on 64bit OS, running 64bit app, the calculation take 66 seconds, running 32 bit app on same machine takes 78 secs
<MartijnVdS> oimon: sounds probable
<MartijnVdS> oimon: also.. no other variables? (other apps in use, et.c)
<oimon> not really, although maple uses java but has 64/32 bit versions
<popey> hahahaha
<popey> added variables
<popey> "java"
<MartijnVdS> java = lots o'added variables
<oimon> maple bundles it with the app though
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's still a layer that produces overhead
<oimon> i was expecting better results for pure mathematical computation
<MartijnVdS> oimon: try writing some assembly, and run it on bare metal :)
<JGJones> Text from wife - your laptop have update, should I OK it?
<JGJones> Me - yup go ahead
<JGJones> Now I'm home and I see it's actually an distribution upgrade....sigh...
<ormiret> oimon: it'll come down to how the implementation of "big integer" is done and if 64bit native words helps reduce the amount of computation needed. From your results there it looks like "some but not much"
<dogmatic69> JGJones: unlucky
<oimon> JGJones: this is for you : http://imgur.com/QbZ2v
 * dogmatic69 pushed it by accident, hit cancel fast enough though
<JGJones> nah, I like Unity, I just didn't want my primary laptop to be using it just yet :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<JGJones> oimon, heh...very true that
<diplo> Great, my work inet connection gone from a bad 2mb service to a 90k service now.. can't do anything
<diplo> Looks like no remote working for me today :)
<oimon> freenx :D
 * JGJones waits for someone to mutter "all I had was a 28.8 baud modem and this was all fields now get off my lawn"
<diplo> heh
<diplo> I started on 56k from Blueyonder
<gord> i didn't even *have* a modem! if i wanted to transfer data i would have to put it on a tape. but i didn't because i didn't even have a second machine!
<diplo> Used to play day of defeat, used to have the best ping in the server!
<shauno> hm.  I'm struggling to do this with basic C.  my unsigned long long int apparently isn't big enough
<JGJones_> Ak... got a kernel panic while laptop doing the distribution upgrade
<ormiret> shauno: yeah, I wondered how big the result would actually be. Matlab very quickly said "inf"
<shauno> I just get segfault, stunningly quick
<ormiret> How do you get overflow to cause a segfault?
<shauno> I have no idea :)
<shauno> (I wasn't kidding when I said basic)
<oimon> small calculations in maple of around 1sec are often are twice as quick with 64bit
<oimon> so i'm guessing the java memory management is involved on bigger stuff
<shauno> actually, mine seems to be going wrong pretty quickly.  I get the right answer for 5, for 10, but for 100 I get zero
<ormiret> oimon: if the numbers fit in 64bits but not 32bits then you can get the 2x speedup as you only need to do half the computations (actually less than since you don't need to do the stuff to handle carrys between the two 32bit words).
<oimon> ormiret: i naively thought that this would scale up a bit better
<oimon> for pure computation
<ormiret> oimon: it can get really complicated for which is faster - lots of computation with small numbers you're better off with 32bit so the memory footprint for your data is less and it's more likely to get to stay in cache.
<shauno> it seems factorials blow past the 64bit boundary quick enough that they're a bad use-case
<shauno> it leaves pure arithmatic and heads into juggling real quickly, which is where all the time is spent
<MartijnVdS> \o/ bit juggling
<oimon> i'm open to other suggestions
<oimon> finding factors of a large number?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: That's a Hard problem
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's the basis for modern crypto :)
<shauno> I can see the theory that for 32<number<64bit, you're going to have less operations with 64.  but once you're >64bit, that's not the bottleneck anymore
<ormiret> oimon: what kind of problem are you looking for?
<oimon> something computationally taxing that doesn't involve producing large numbers, for a simple 64/32 bit maple benchmark
<oimon> something that should take a few mins to solve
<shauno> if you're not trying to produce large numbers, factorials are right up the wrong tree
<shauno> 100! is 93,326,215,443,944,102,188,325,606,108,575,267,240,944,254,854,960,571,509,166,910,400,407,995,064,242,937,148,632,694,030,450,512,898,042,989,296,944,474,898,258,737,204,311,236,641,477,561,877,016,501,813,248
<shauno> which is why 12345678! is crazy :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you could try a prime-finding algorithm.. but that might get big quick
<oimon> i was trying both :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: or digits of pi
<BigRedS> trig functions?
<oimon> i thought about pi but it produced results too quick
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sin 666?
<BigRedS> ISTR some/one of them just involves an arbitrarily long series of divisions
<shauno> you solved pi? too quick?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: have it calculate the 600 millionth digit
<dogmatic69> shauno: lol
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's linux, it does infinite loops in 10s
<MartijnVdS> oh 5
<shauno> that's where I'm going wrong then .. trying to compile on ma puny mac :)
<shauno> where infinite loops are 8 timezones away
<JGJones_> Hmm ok dist upgrade now completed...and I appear to be missing an "application lens" from the unity dock....
<JGJones_> so....how does one goes about adding icons to the dock?
<oimon> 600millionth digit of pi is a 0
<oimon> :D
<BigRedS> that seems a bit of a letdown for some reason
<DJones> oimon: What is the 600 Million and first digit?
<oimon> exercise for the reader
 * DJones thinks of a random number & wonders if somebody else will cheque it
<oimon> i'm actually running these tests on another user's machine :D
<oimon> mine isn't 64 bit
<Laney> !info pi
<lubotu3> pi (source: cln): Compute Archimedes' constant Pi to arbitrary precision. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.1-2 (natty), package size 10 kB, installed size 64 kB
<oimon> he must wonder why his fans are blowing a gale
<DJones> oimon: Damm, I thought you were working it out by hand then
<JGJones_> ...what do you call the icons on the dock in Unity?
<JGJones_> specifically those that does an action such as show all applications?
<shauno> false idols
<JGJones_> I don't have that and I haven't a clue how to google on how to put it back on.
<DJones> JGJones_: This might help http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements
<DJones> I'm guessing it comes under "Launcher items"
<czajkowski> no davmor2 :s
<gord> JGJones_, lenses
<gord> i mean technically they are launchers that launch lenses, but whatever
<oimon> decided not to have cucumber in my roll today
<oimon> interestingly, using a more reliable method to calculate pi to 500000 DP fails on 32bit due to mem issues, but 64 bit comes up with the goods
<oimon> probably that poxy java again
<popey> \o/ poxy java
<ormiret> what kind of memory issues?
<oimon> ormiret: closed the window now, but it was a mem alloc error..poss due to JAVAHEAP settings when running maple
<oimon> on a 12 gig RAM machine, so raw resources wasn't the error
<ormiret> oimon: default for the JVM heap size limit is often tiny (I think 128MiB).
<oimon> 512MB in maple
<oimon> still a tad low
<oimon> considering we give 4gb machines running linux..quite hard to pine and latex to use all that RAM :D
<ormiret> oimon: I'm oddly tempted to go and see if I can make a latex document that'll need more the 4GB to process now.
<oimon> oimon..finding ways for others to procrastinate since 19xx
<shauno> :D
<oimon> i've discovered why staff were complaining that they hadn't received certain emails...in pine it's such effort to open a mail, you need a really good title. except the building manager has an important email about impending 1 day notice of full electrical shutdown of the building called "testing of electrical outlets in rooms" ..no wonder they claim not to see those emails since they don't have preview for their mail
<livingdaylight> the unity bar seems stuck in the open?
<livingdaylight> won't autohide like ususal for some reason, grrr.
<oimon> spotify seems to be a good way to get me to buy albums.
<oimon> anything i play regularly on there ends up getting purchased
<popey> bigcalm: your message on facebook...
<popey> is it still valid?
<popey> bug 790538
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 790538 in pam (Ubuntu) "pam update causes cron to stop working with "Module is unknown" error" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790538
<DJones> !pamerr
<lubotu3> If you're receiving 404 errors while updating pam today, the developers have identified a package regression and have pulled the update. For details see https://launchpad.net/bugs/790538
<cocoa117> EOF upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 (Jaunty to Karmic) have error message Cannot upgrade
<cocoa117> An upgrade from 'jaunty' to 'lucid' is not supported with this tool.
<DJones> cocoa117: I think Karmic has reached its end of life as of 30th April so the repo's for that have probably been removed
<DJones> !karmic
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://goo.gl/UUTAB for details.
<cocoa117> damn, does that mean for EOF to EOF upgrade is not possible?
<cocoa117> DJones, i have to do CD upgrade to 9.10 first, then do-release-upgrade after that?
<shauno> karmic hasn't been removed from the repos yet
<DJones> There used to be an oldreleases.com that it was possible to use to upgrade through after manually editing the repo lists, but its probably going to be safer to do a fresh install of Lucid, I don't know whether you'd be able to set a cd as the source list, maybe with an alterate install cd
<shauno> karmic isn't on old-releases.ubuntu.com yet, but it appears to still be on archive.u.c
<cocoa117> DJones, i followed the EOF wiki, which changed the source.list repo to oldrelase.com
<DJones> cocoa117: by EOF wiki, do you mean the EOL wiki?
<cocoa117> DJones, yes, EOL, not EOF, my fault
<DJones> No worries, I was just going to look at it
<oimon> can't believe i just agreed to do ITIL course..i feel like i just volunteered for a lobotomy
<oimon> what if all that crap pushes out useful information?
<JGJones_> err...like what? ;-)
<oimon> walking, speaking, linux,
<oimon> the words to songs i liked 25 years ago
<DJones> cocoa117: Not sure what to suggest, are you currently running 9.04?
<JGJones_> Look on the bright side - if it push out the speaking skill - then you can hide the fact that you did a ITIL course as you'll not be able to talk about it.
<cocoa117> DJones, yes, tring to 9.10, and then 10.04
<oimon> it will also have the double benefit of making me fit for service in the public sector
<cocoa117> DJones, no worries, i am going to try alternate CD first
<DJones> ok, good luck
<cocoa117> cheers
<oimon> did you hear the story about apple trying to buy itv.com website?
<dogmatic69> no
<oimon> http://channelhopping.onthebox.com/2011/05/26/itv-how-steve-jobs-tried-to-buy-our-third-channel/
<oimon> probably would cost a tad more than icloud.com...
<JGJones_> I thought it failed as it turned out that UK wasn't too keen on having a religious channel?
<popey> wakka wakka wakka
<popey> he's here all week
<oimon> bah-dum chish
<MartijnVdS> joke.popey.com?
<oimon> about this sexymp website that's in the news..if even 50% of MPs and their assistants & mistresses checked out this site, just think how much sensitive information could be obtained if it was ridden with spyware?
<DJones> Question is, I wonder if anybody has rated Anne Widdicombe
<oimon> i don't have the guts to visit the site even in incognito mode
<DJones> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Art of Community: Building Belonging - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/31/the-art-of-community-building-belonging/
<Nafallo> popey: I'm all back, and measures have been taken to make my part of the net not go down next time Sweden falls over :-)
<oimon> anyone know why tfl website is insisting that i don't take the hammersmith and city line?
<gord> firefox's awesome bar makes it far too easy for me to order pizza just by typing "pizza". this should be a bug
<bigcalm> Fiance is out for the evening. What shall I do for dinner?
<brobostigon> curry :)
<oimon> something stinky
<brobostigon> chilli?
<brobostigon> chilli al'la popey ?
<oimon> with smoked haddock :)
 * bigcalm wanders off to ASDA for a mooch
<brobostigon> o/
<shauno> in good news for bachelor quisine everywhere, they're recommending we don't eat uncooked vegetables :D
<shauno> finally some health advice I can get behind
<oimon> all because somebody pooed on some cucumbers?
<ormiret> shauno: which they would that be? And did they give any reasons?
<shauno> they would be the interwebs I guess
<shauno> can't remember where I read that :/  been reading webs all day
<oimon> probably dailyfail, they are good for a bit of sensationlist panic
<oimon> ubuntu mono fonts coming soon :D
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> eening jacobw
<brobostigon> evening*
<daubers> Afternoon
<brobostigon> hello daubers
<daubers> ARGH!!!
<daubers> Blasted Numb3rs
<daubers> Someone give them the "Dummys Guide to Cryptographic Techniques"
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Rebooting - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/137313.html
<AlanBell> evening all
<zleap> hi
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bonjour AlanBell
<issyl0> TheOpenSourcerer: Bonjour.
<issyl0> Et AlanBell et zleap.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo issyl0
<issyl0> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh, je croyais que tu allais me parler en francais.  Et puis j'ai relue le nom de canal...
<AlanBell> Je suis dans un bar avec une bonne biÃ¨re froide
<TheOpenSourcerer> issyl0: I had to go to Google translate to understand that!
<AlanBell> comment allez-vous issyl0?
<issyl0> AlanBell: Je vais bien.  Et toi ?
<issyl0> AlanBell: Tu es en Belgique ?
<issyl0> TheOpenSourcerer: Aucun probleme.  :-)
<AlanBell> heh, no, the vendee
<issyl0> AlanBell: Oh.  It's very flat there...
<AlanBell> it is (except for the beer)
<issyl0> Heheh.  :-)
<issyl0> (Heureusement.)
<MichealH> 'ello all
<brobostigon> evening MichealH
<zleap> sorry was chatting in another channel
<zleap> how is everyone ?
<daubers> memo to self
<daubers> find actual remote control for mythtv when I go back to the parents house
<shauno> I use my phone as a remote for xbmc.  it actually works really well
<daubers> If I had an android phone I would :)
<daubers> Although... there is an iPhone app iirc
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 9th June 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks 24th July!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-01
<wintellect> hey brobostigon
<Penguin> say your version! Ubuntu 10.10 64x here.
<losty> 11.04
<Penguin> wow.
<Penguin> XD only one person who isn't idling?
<losty> i was thinking, i should start idling soon
<Penguin> how's 11.04 losty? Any significant bugs that you want to point out?
<losty> ummm... just having some issues with gwubber
<losty> gwibber*
<losty> its not very fluid
<losty> apart from that, works fine, only other major issue (or not)
<losty> is dash and launcher isn't visible for some reason...
<Penguin> :)
<losty> not sure if im just being a silly newb
<Penguin> :P weird
<Penguin> That makes both of us. I'm jsut the cautious newb type. :D
<losty> ye
<losty> :D
<losty> this is most probably the longest ive been on, and have to say its been quite lovely
<losty> appearance is soo much improved
<losty> im not comparing to 10.04
<Penguin> I actually prefer 10.04, only there was this update that came half-way through the release which bugged out my laptop.
<Penguin> now i'm on 10.10 and the thing over-heats like crazy. Do you have a CPU heat monitor losty?
<losty> no, im still tinkering about Penguin
<losty> what do you use Penguin? Psesnor?
<Penguin> I have Nvidia drivers, so it comes with the monitor
<losty> cool
<Penguin> bye losty
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Be Nice, Free Snacks. - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/01/be-nice-free-snacks/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Looking For Awesome LoCo Team Blog Feeds - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/01/looking-for-awesome-loco-team-blog-feeds/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> Morning
<brobostigon> weird, i just noticed,the signal indicator in android gingerbread, doesnt have an indicator, inicating hsdpa, 3g etc.
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<DJones> hi brobostigon
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> Hate getting to work early
<brobostigon> this is weird, an x-men prequel, a star trek prequel, starwars. loads ofprequels recently.
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<oimon> morning
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> morning oimon and popey
<popey> chaps...
<popey> do these play back for you ?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsWwCqZfpAI  <- 1080p
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5AgfsSvhPs <- 720p
<brobostigon> i dont think it is worth trying on my eeepc,really.
<DJones> popey: Both do for me on Windows 7 with chrome
<popey> hehe brobostigon
<DJones> Do you need them checking on ubuntu?
<oimon> popey: they work for me on lucid.
<oimon> running chromium...although youtube was pinwheeling a lot of the 1080 one ..thats youtubes prob tho
<czajkowski> MORNING!
<popey> what resolution were you playing them at?
<popey> default is 360 i think
<oimon> selected 1080 and 720
<popey> should playback in html5 too
<popey> not just flash
<gord> works fine here
<oimon> don't notice the different of resolution when the video is of duplocraft :D
<popey> true
<oimon> was viewing full scren
 * oimon went to belle and sebastian gig last night, feeling rather jolly
<DJones> Default on my ubuntu machine went to 360 with no option to change, win7 machine would play at 1080 although default was 360
<gord> youtube compresses 1080 and 720 stuff so much that it rarely makes a huge difference =\ nice that its there when you want it though
<oimon> was watching a desktop screencast the other day in 1080p full screen, feels like your own desktop :D
<gord> oop, bunch of mailing lists have mailed me to tell me its the 1st of the month
<oimon> with clear text passwords...
<DJones> gord: As I got asked in work, did I say "White rabbits"
<oimon> hayfever is going mental today
<popey> Happy Mailman Day!
<popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 alan alan  30G 2011-05-31 21:24 2113-screencast.avi
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> ^^^ that youtube video :D
<popey> before compression of course
<dogmatic69> popey: works for me
<popey> took _ages_ to encode
<oimon> which s/w did u use to record?
<popey> but then I was encoding to 720p and 1080p at the same time. I wont bother next time. just do 1080p and let youtube do it
<domjohnson> Erm...is Blender included by default in Ubuntu?
<domjohnson> 11.04?
<popey> not on the cd, no
<gord> no
<popey> its in the repo
<domjohnson> ok
<popey> oimon: sorry, missed your question... ffmpeg
<oimon> popey: have you found a screencast tool to work on natty yet?
<oimon> or it needs tweaks still
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615682/
<popey> ^^^ that
<oimon> cute
<MartijnVdS> popey: only 720p! :)
<ali1234> popey: you know you could have just used a torch to open that iron door right? also you didn't pick up all your stuff, you missed something diamond
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615683/
<popey> MartijnVdS: i have two versions
<popey> ^^^ then i do that to encode
<popey> ali1234: i didnt know that!
<czajkowski> so thats what mine craft is all about
<ali1234> a redstone torch that is
<popey> which I had loads of âº
<ali1234> yes or you could have just taken the one powering the track
<gord> czajkowski, you aren't playing minecraft with us yet? for shame
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> dear gods I'd never get anything done
 * popey notes a typo
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615686/
<czajkowski> ;)
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<gord> oh geez, i installed firefox 6 - now none of my extensions work. what have i done
<popey> so that does two-pass encoding to h264 and aac
<popey> the webm and ogg conversions are kinda pointless
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you use -vpre main (after -vpre hq (in the second pass of mpeg-4) it'll play on more devices out of the box
<popey> o rly?
<gord> i just use handbrake when converting for youtube :) whenever i try ffmpeg i end up with desync :(
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've had problems on my ps3 when not using that flag, it's a bit.. sensitive.. about MPEG-4 optional bits
<oimon> people wonder why linux is hard...remember before ubuntu , EVERYTHING was about hidden command line stuff - even burning cds
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> k3b is older than ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> oimon: what? cdrecord dev=0,3,0 foo.iso :)
<oimon> i'm still slightly untrusting of banshee etc to rip my CDs efficiently
<MartijnVdS> oimon: sound-juicer is fine
<MartijnVdS> banshee I don't trust :)
<oimon> especially after mrs oimon used rhythmbox and ripped a load of CDs and 128kp because it was the default
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I've configured it to rip to FLAC
<MartijnVdS> and I move them into the right place in ~/Music using Picard (musicbrainz app) which also adds proper metadata
<oimon> i struggled with picard
<oimon> used it for 20 mins and was confused
<MartijnVdS> its interface is a bit bad
<diplo> Hi All, known issues with Nvidia and dual screens on natty ?
<ali1234> only the same old ones there's always been
<diplo> Screen totally lags out and the locks up
<MartijnVdS> sounds like good old nvidia
<brobostigon> i think i have finallyfound a version of gingerbread, that works well onmy htc dream, and isnt killing the ram.
<gord> diplo, nope, works fine here
<diplo> Best way to restart X in natty ?
<brobostigon> in basis,nothing elseinstalled, or running, but the basics, and half the ram is still free, someone has beendoing alot ofwork.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: sudo service gdm restart
<popey> thanks MartijnVdS I'm always looking for ways to improve that script!
<diplo> Wonder whether a clean install may work better than a upgrade
<oimon> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Fedora-Blogs-to-close-due-to-limited-use-1253151.html
<ali1234> popey: is 72 the height of the top unity panel?
<diplo> Hmm happens as soon as I enable second screen, works fine with single
<ali1234> that is, are you running minecraft mazimized and then the -i cuts off the top panel?
<ali1234> diplo:  check the refresh rates
<ali1234> if they are quite different it can mess things up
<popey> ali1234: no, thats for when I'm recording a virtualbox window
<diplo> kk, just seeing if classis does the same
<popey> that skips the top panel and the virtualbox window chrome
<ali1234> popey: hmm ok, but it is an offset yeah?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> cos i have 1200 vertical, and i run minecraft maximized not fullscreen
<ali1234> so i can cut off the top 120 pixels to get proper 1080
<ali1234> and also get rid of the panel at the same time
<popey> 1920x1200?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> probably easier to just change res of the display
<diplo> Hmm monitor preferences says 'Unknown'
<popey> and use full screen
<ali1234> diplo: it will you must use nvidia-settings
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Nvidia's drivers don't support the standard monitor configuration tool
<popey> unless you plan on doing something with those 120 pixels âº
<diplo> Different size screens, 1 x 1600x1200 1x 1280x1024
<ali1234> ew no, do you know how long it took me to get my xorg.conf right?
<ali1234> also fullscreen tends to never ever work right with dual head
<popey> ah, dual head
<gord> seriously, that stuff needs to be fixed =\
<diplo> Both refresh rates set to 60hz
<ali1234> ok, alsa problems
<diplo> Still lagging out though
<ali1234> i don't have hw:1,0, hw:0,0 says i/o error
<diplo> Defo works better under classic but still not right
<diplo> :/
<popey> ali1234: what do you have in /proc/asound/cards ?
<popey> I just grab the number from that
<popey> and make sure its not muted in pulse audio mixer
<popey> :S wfm
<wintellect> does popey play minecraft under Ubuntu?
<popey> yes
<wintellect> is it java based?
<popey> yes
<wintellect> perhaps I'll give it a look then
<popey> actually I play in Ubuntu, OSX and Windows
<popey> depending on whatever I happen to be on at the time
<wintellect> is it easy to set up your own server?
<popey> yes
<wintellect> cool
<wintellect> thanks
<popey> there is a jar file on the website, spark that up, job done
<MartijnVdS> Keeping it running can be a challenge, I heard
<popey> there are other things to consider though
<wintellect> oh?
<popey> mostly works for me
<MartijnVdS> (with memory allocations, garbage collector configuration, etc.)
<popey> wintellect: it has high memory requirements
<wintellect> :(
<wintellect> I have 2.2GB RAM - that enough?
<popey> 13146 minecraf  20   0 2806m 1.1g 4680 S   20 38.4 109:47.37 java
<popey> yeah
<popey> depends how many players you have online at once and how big the map is
<popey> and how far apart they all are
<wintellect> sure
<gord> wonder why minecraft does run better in linux, i mean, significantly
<wintellect> do you run it with the sun java - or the free java?
<oimon> gord: compared to which OS?
<popey> sun
<wintellect> k, thanks
<popey> cant say I have noticed a difference between win/ubun on same hardware
<popey> wintellect: oh, and IO can be a bit of a problem
<popey> my minecraft server has an SSD to reduce that issue
<gord> on my hardware windows 7 struggles to run minecraft fullscreen, on ubuntu i get like 200fps
<popey> i have no idea how many fps I get
<popey> will check
<popey> I think I turned on fps display on that video at the end
<bigcalm> Full screen makes me feel ill
<popey> hehe
<popey> wuss :D
<bigcalm> :'(
<gord> its kinda weird to check now that notch added some weird fps limiting stuff, he doesn't seem to know how to use threads =\
<bigcalm> Motion sickness FTW
<bigcalm> popey: Castle Wolfenstine did the same to me
<bigcalm> No other game has though
<ali1234> popey: i don't have any numbers in that file
<gord> (fyi, #u-uk-minecraft takeover of #u-uk complete!)
<popey> hmm, i thought I did
<ali1234> well, there's 0, 1, and 2
<ali1234> 0 is the one i need
<ali1234> but it's in use by pulseaudio of course
<popey> oh, sorry, your cards
<popey> can you pastebin it?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615690/
<popey> thats my /proc/asound/cards
<popey> I'm using the snowball
<ali1234> but your script says hw:1,0
<ali1234> which is the XFi
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615692/
<popey> i may have given an old script
<popey> i just had a rummage and pasted an old copy
<popey> not the one I used last night
<ali1234> i get 9 fps recording 1080
<ali1234> it's a bit berky jerky
<popey> erk
<popey> I am recording to a different disk btw
<popey> so my script /mnt/screencasts is another SATA drive
 * oimon wonders whether to get usb3 ports on staff desktop PCs
<ali1234> so am i
<ali1234> i could also record to a ramdisk, i have 16 gb now
<ali1234> i doubt it would help though
<popey> heh
<ali1234> i'll give it a go
<ali1234> 9 fps isn't that bad
<popey> 3GB/min
<ali1234> yeah i have a 9GB recording now
<popey> i left it running once to see whether the audio and video would go out of sync over time
<popey> it didnt
<popey> but I did run out of disk space :D
<ali1234> since i can't record audio, i won't have that problem
<ali1234> one day audio might work properly on linux... but not today
<popey> ali1234: pulse audio settings all right?
<ali1234> yes pulseaudio works fine
<ali1234> but your script uses alsa
<ali1234> so it doesn't work
<popey> in the pulse mixer thing, you have enabled it as stereo out and mono in?
<popey> i still have to fiddle with pulse, even though that script uses alsa
<popey> not sure why
<popey> although I may have fiddled with alsamixer too at one point
<ali1234> yeah i still get 9fps even recording to ramdisk
 * bigcalm_ wheeps
<ali1234> it's grabbing the x11 display that takes the time
<bigcalm> weaps?
<bigcalm> This SuperHub has it in for me
<bigcalm> Just lost all reserved IP / MAC address associations
<MartijnVdS> superhub?
<popey> SUUUUUPER HUUUUUUB!
<gord> popey, how did you record that minecraft vid, just with recordmydesktop?
<popey> heh
<popey> no
<bigcalm> I really hate calling it that
<gord> sorry, with rec<tab>
<gord> do tell what you used :)
<popey> gord: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615699/
<oimon> bigcalm: anything with super in the name usually isn't
<popey> I ssh in from another box, export DISPLAY=:0.0 then run that
<czajkowski> http://www.simonaltair.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ps17_004_R.jpg  so cute :D
<popey> that way you dont see the terminal on screen on the box I am recording
<ali1234> um
<oimon> czajkowski: why are his eyes red ?
<ali1234> how do you get display access on ssh?
<oimon> is that how penguins blush?
<gord> popey, oh interesting, eat up lots of cpu?
<popey> just works
<popey> dunno really, dont watch it
<popey> I guess it probably does
<popey> I'll do one tonight showing performance whilst running
<gord> ah huffyuv, that should be fine, big files
<popey> yeah
<popey> 3GB/min
<popey> morning daubers !
<daubers> lo o/
<daubers> Having melty brain syndrome, so came to somewhere normally a bit drivley to let it rest :p
<popey> gord: thats the best script I have come up with so far. Tried pretty much _everything_ over the years
<gord> popey, yeah, why i asked you ;) pretty sure your the world expert at this point
<oimon> dell customiser won't let me buy a PC - complains "the selection - Roxio Software not included is incompatible withÂ Optical Devices" -
<popey> lol
<oimon> seem to be having problems buying things lately
<dwatkins> gord: there's also vnc2flv
<dwatkins> or was that vnc2swf...
<dwatkins> http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/ - example here: http://rowla.dyndns.org/xmatrix/
<dwatkins> I used low resolution because at the time my server was a 900 MHz machine ;)
<dwatkins> should I release my enhancements to xmountains, folks? http://rowla.dyndns.org/xmountains/ - I made the colours better, and am considering making the colours changeable, because the original ones were rather ugly
<gord> popey, how would i find my hw number for alsa?
<gord> oh wait no nevermind
<gord> i just tried 1 and it worked :)
<popey> gord: cat /proc/asound/cards
<popey> dwatkins: vnc2swf has _many_ problems
<gord> oh wow that is very very smooth recording
<dwatkins> popey: oh right, I don't remember as it was so long ago
<popey> well, it records to swf for a starter âº
<popey> and vnc isn't composited desktop friendly these days
<oimon> dwatkins: you don't like the green?
<dwatkins> oimon: no, it looks like mud which would smell bad ;)
<popey> awww pretty
<popey> xmountains
<oimon> xmountains crashses on my lucid
<dwatkins> I guess xmountains would also need to be updated to work with Gnome and the fact Nautilus paints the desktop.
<oimon> or exits when i click the window
<dwatkins> I turned off that option to run it.
<oimon> i actually prefer the default lurid green
<oimon> reminds me of swizterland
<oimon> i used to use vnc2swf on windows, then i discovered wink
<dwatkins> hehe, fair enough - that was why I thought it might be best to add switches to allow people to specify colours, oimon.
<daubers> popey: I had my laptop plugged into a capture card on a mac pro the other day. That recorded quite nicely (after mucking around to get the codecs right)
<daubers> bit of a faff for home recording mind
<popey> which capture card?
<popey> I have an Epiphan VGA2USB
<popey> which I wouldn't recommend
<daubers> popey: Blackmagic ... decklink I think
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> Yeah, decklink studio
<daubers> interestingly, does have linux drivers too
<daubers> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklink/
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 where were you yesterday eh
 * DJones offers davmor2 a plaster
<|Dreams|> anyone use ubuntu on laptop? whats battery life llike?
<czajkowski> |Dreams|: depends on the laptop
<webpigeon> |Dreams|: acceptable, (Toshiba saterlite and saterlite pro)
<|Dreams|> acer aspire 6920g
<davmor2> czajkowski: on holiday in the cotswolds :)
<czajkowski> a place of cots
<czajkowski> is that sleeping :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah we mis-read it as clots thought youd be there :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: on a plus side it's very pretty there :)
<awilkins> |Dreams|, I find battery life to be a mite less than vanilla Windows on the same hardware, but after ICT loads all their corporate snoopware, it's about the same.
<geek1d> Morning all
<awilkins> And that's on an external USB SSD, so it's running more hardware
<geek1d> Got my 11.04 installed last night trying to get used to Unity
<|Dreams|> ok was thinking of either arch or fedora or ubuntu or windows 7
<|Dreams|> i really like gnome 3 tho
<davmor2> geek1d: congratulations
<geek1d> davmor2:  thanks
<davmor2> geek1d: it'll take a few days but once your used to it the old way somehow feels wrong
<geek1d> I'm liking it so far first thoughts were no pleasant.
<geek1d> davmor2: I'm getting around and used not having the cube! :(
<|Dreams|> i dont think unity is for me but i love apt so i am cought in a muddle
<geek1d> you guys have any nifty tricks shortcuts etc for unity
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts/612
<popey> ^^^ geek1d
 * dwatkins notes that unrar-free fails to unrar
<jpds> dwatkins: It's not a winrar?
<geek1d> awesome
<geek1d> thanks
<bigcalm> Who made it June? It shouldn't be June already!
<dwatkins> jpds: I suspect it was created on a windows system, but 'unrar' is happily extracting it, whereas the unrar from 'unrar-free' failed very quickly to extract it.
 * dwatkins pinches bigcalm and provides a friendly light punch on the arm in addition
 * bigcalm feels 12 again
<|Dreams|> what is on your laptops?
<popey> my hands
<popey> a sticker
<popey> dust
<|Dreams|> give it a clean then
<|Dreams|> lol
<popey> :D
<|Dreams|> i meant os
<popey> The one I am using right now runs Windows XP
<|Dreams|> what would be your preference I have a acer aspire 6920g battery life is important but as long as there isnt much difference between windows half an hr i can live with I am happy to stay with linux
<popey> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<popey> :D
 * awilkins finds that he just gets things done faster in Linux which compensates :-)
<popey> personally I'd use 11.04
<daubers> I find I get more done in OSX these days, largley as I've broken it more so that only my productivity stuff works :) (That and it's hidden away in a quiet corner of the flat)
<|Dreams|> i love ubuntu but dont like the unity would have preferred gnome 3 - shell but since they decided on that i guess it is either fedora or arch i dont like yum but then arch needs configuring more sighzzz
<popey> your logic doesnt work |Dreams|
<popey> if you dont like unity, dont use it
<popey> but that doesnt mean you have to switch to fedora or arch
<popey> although, feel free to do that
<|Dreams|> you cant use gnome 3 shell on ubuntut though
<popey> you can't?
<popey> I hear you can.
<|Dreams|> i read guide that says it messes your system up
<jpds> |Dreams|: sudo apt-get install gnome3-session
<popey> brobostigon uses it on his
<|Dreams|> http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/05/do-not-install-gnome-shell-in-ubuntu.html
<|Dreams|> so i didnt try after readint his
 * bigcalm installs it on his laptop to see what happens
<popey> i have never seen that blog before
<popey> note that is a month old
<|Dreams|> ok
<|Dreams|> maybe will give it a try then thanks for heads up
<popey> let us know how you get on! :D
<|Dreams|> ok will do byee
<screen-x> <-- has a new job \o/ but its mostly deadrat /o\ which should I use to to familiarise myself; fedora, centos or other?
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<screen-x> thanks for that MartijnVdS ;-)
<popey> we use Red Hat at work. I have never felt the need to use Centos/RedHat at home
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Glad to be of service :)
<popey> they are alike enough
<popey> as in, ubuntu is alike enough
<screen-x> hmm
<screen-x> maybe I'll just come across the differences and learn as I use it.
<oimon> screen-x: install ubuntu but a VM of SL or Centos
<screen-x> oimon: yeah, was going to use a VM for something rpm based :)
<bigcalm> popey: Trying to install gnome3-session from the SC gives this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/615745/
<oimon> the best thing to do is get hold of the RHCE training material
<popey> bigcalm: did you enable the ppa?
<oimon> and learn kickstart etc
<screen-x> oimon: Â£Â£?
<bigcalm> popey: I have no idea, what and how?
<bigcalm> gnome-shell does not appear in the SC
<oimon> screen-x: i think there's 600-page  books on amazon that are caleld passing your RHCE...can't remember what the best one is..however a colleague may have done the course and has the RH materials
<popey> bigcalm: you're not doing what |Dreams| was doing, which is using the gnome 3 ppa
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> But it still stands that you can't install gnome3 without knowing how
<bigcalm> Or, I can't :)
<popey> nobody said you could
<bigcalm> Can I, please?
<bigcalm> Actually. I'll go and get some lunch instead :)
<DJones> Can anybody access https://cybersecuritychallenge.org.uk/index.php or do you get a "Couldn't connect to mySQL server" error
<MartijnVdS> maybe that's the challenge?
<DJones> Only asking because its linked from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13615091? as looking for people who can "defend the nations networks armed only with a keyboard"
<DJones> Maybe somebody should have defended the website to start with
<MartijnVdS> it's probably overloaded because of that
<DJones> True, didn't think of that
<popey> almost certainly
<popey> bbcdotted
<DJones> Hadn't heard anything about this Mesh Computers went into administration yesterday & were bought out on the same day
 * awilkins is finding team meetings mediated via conference call are even more boring than being there in person
<daubers> DJones: Who?
<DJones> daubers: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/tech-industry/3283223/mesh-computers-in-administration-brand-sold-to-pc-peripherals/
<DJones> The Mesh name seems to have been around for ever
 * awilkins remembers actual paper manuals with "MESH" printed on them
<oimon> WANG
<oimon> best name ever
<daubers> screen-x: Oooh... where you working?
<Laney> M*E*S*H
<popey> My Desktop PC is a Mesh one
<JGJones_> I've got a Mesh desktop PC too
<JGJones_> although it's dead.
<JGJones_> deader than a dodo
<JGJones_> and it's still under my desk many months later....
<popey> mine has had everything except the mobo and cpu upgraded :D
<popey> and the case
<popey> planning to replace the fans too
<popey> i should probably just spend the money on a new pc and transfer the bits
<DJones> I upgraded my desktop at the weekend, the only bits of the original pc that was kept & reused was a couple of memory sticks :)
<popey> if i buy a new mobo I'll need new ram wont I â¹
<ging> popey: you could wait till usb3 takes off, or you not think that will be in the near future?
<popey> I dont need uSB3
<DJones> my upgrade was taking to aged machines and taking the best bits of each + various other spares to make one reasonable machine
<ging> popey: no but if in 2 years time everyone else has it do you want to be needed to replace your motherboard again to not feel left out?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/desktop.html
<popey> ging: no.
<ali1234> usb2 is bad enough
<popey> 4xDDR2 at 800MHz.
<popey> slow and old I guess
<ging> is usb 3 qicker than a standard pci bus?
<popey> will i neither know nor care
<popey> -will
<ging> it's a lot quicker i just looked it up, even quicker than pci-e 1 so even that wouldnt do
<ging> i wonder if popey was grumpy before i started talking
<popey> I'm not grumpy at all.
<daubers> \o/ finally finished the last UUPC
<popey> âº
<JGJones_> I guess I'm just keeping mine...um...for the PSU, HDD, case and get a new mobo et al for it. Maybe.
<JGJones_> I also have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer on my desk too. This is one awesome machine, it have - read this and weep - DUAL floppy disk drive bays!
<gord> i got an i7 a year or so ago, bit more. basically forced me to upgrade everything. new motherboard for the cpu, new gpu for the motherboard, new ram for the motherboard, new psu for the gpu and cpu. then about six months later it became apparent that i needed better cooling, my case was too small so new case and new cooling
<gord> i kept the dvd drive i think, can't think of anything else
<JGJones_> hdd?
<gord> oh yeah i kept one of those around, but windows goes on that. got an ssd to help with building stuff with the i7 :) was bottlenecking on IO
<gord> this motherboard has usb3 stuff, i keep it in usb2 mode, don't think i'll ever find usb3 compatible anythings
<popey> yeah, it's "whole new pc" time if I upgrade this pc
<popey> this is why I have been slowly incrementally upgrading
<popey> the only thing I can do now is go to Q6600 CPU and add quieter cooling
<oimon> in wonder how long until all our gear is usb3
<popey> heh, not everything is USB2 yet
<popey> so I doubt "all our gear" will ever go USB3
 * daubers has a USB3 HDD caddy
<daubers> was the only one I could find that would fit a tall 2.5 disk in
<bigcalm> Just about to set up 3 RHE servers. Is there a standard place for putting vhost configs? In Debian based servers vhosts are each their own file.
<bigcalm> I can add to /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf if I _have_ to
<MooDoo> bigcalm: just create a folder where you want the vhosts to go and use and include line in the httpd.conf
<bigcalm> MooDoo: looks like the best route
<MooDoo> that way you're not cluttering up httpd.conf
<bigcalm> Include vhosts/*.conf
<bigcalm> Oops, w/w
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> do you not have sites-available and sites-enabled?
<kvarley> How do I change the permissions of /var/www so that mysql and the contents of my site can be changed via scripts
<bigcalm> popey: no
<bigcalm> kvarley: find out what user is used by the apache server and then either: 1) chown the files to that user. 2) add that user to a group and chown the files to that group
<kvarley> bigcalm: Thank
<kvarley> *s
<bigcalm> Or, and you really should do this: chmod -R 777 .
<bigcalm> Please don't do that :)
<kvarley> I'd get hacked lol
<shauno> sites-available is a debianism  (altho an entirely sane one once you get used to it)
<popey> ah
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at RackSpace
<bigcalm> Do I have to enable port 80 in the firewall?
<bigcalm> .9 can see .10 and .11 internally. But the public IP addresses do not take me to working web servers
<bigcalm> HA!
<bigcalm> I _did_ have to open port 80 in the firewall
<gord> broke my ubuntu mug :( guess i have to use fedora now
<bigcalm> Weird
<bigcalm> I wonder if I'll be able to collect a mug every year
 * popey hugs his oggcamp mug
<bigcalm> Damn you cisco! I want to put a dynamic address into a rule
<davmor2> gord: if it helps my Ubuntu mug is still going strong but I think I might treat myself to one of those new orange ones
<bigcalm> popey: what are the colour of the mugs this year?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know what colour are you #badumtish
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> I'm yellow with a touch of liver failure
<davmor2> bigcalm: I couldn't resist sorry :D
<popey> bigcalm: no idea âº
<bigcalm> davmor2: it was asking for it :)
<bigcalm> 100%   76MB 392.0KB/s   03:19
<bigcalm> Thank you upgraded connection :)
<bigcalm> This is why I need to upgrade to 50 or 100mb
 * bigcalm _makes do_ with 30mb
<popey> hah
 * popey hugs 30
<Laney> that ubuntu mouse looks rough
<Laney> anyone tried it?
<Laney> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=643
<oimon> looks absolutely minging
<czajkowski> yay for ice cream!
<dogmatic69> that is going to show apple's multi touch mouse who is boss
<bigcalm> It doesn't look as though it was designed for daily use
<bigcalm> s/daily //
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> took me a few seconds to parse s/daily //
<oimon> my knuckles are itching just thinking about that mouse :(
<dogmatic69> that mouse + http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=800
<dogmatic69> $productivity++
<oimon> wearing a skinny ladies tshirt because it was on sale
<oimon> even though you're a man
<oimon> actually...wearing this: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
<dogmatic69> just saw that one... clear winner
 * popey grrrs at teh windows key on that keyboard
<BigRedS> hah
<BigRedS> that is a bit dumb
<popey> yes
<popey> very
<dogmatic69> s/bit/very
<oimon> i wonder who buys the XXX large cycling bib shorts thing
<Laney> for your tandem
<BigRedS> I've always assumed those shorts were the result of someone at canonical wanting some nice shorts for free
<DJones> BigRedS: I can think of one ubuntu member/developer thats involved in cycling
<kazade> afternoon all
<DJones> Hi kazade
<oimon> my bro and bro in law are doing charity cycle ride london-brighton i wonder if canonical would sponsor them with the outfits :P
<dogmatic69> quite a way
<BigRedS> oimon: is that the bhf one?
<oimon> BigRedS: i'm not sure - they are specifically raising funds for an orphanage in zimbabwe..thats a v good expression of "ubuntu"
<DJones> oimon: A former rugby player I know who had to quit when he found out he had cancer is doing a lands end -> john O'groats cycle ride for charity plus hiking up snowdon, scafell pike and ben nevis during the bike ride
<BigRedS> oimon: Ah, the bhf one's coming up at the end of this month
<BigRedS> it's always the weekend nearest to the solstice
<gord> huh so open office is in the hands of apache now - where does that leave libre office?
<BigRedS> Hopefully thinking about a merger
<BigRedS> I'd like the Libre Office drive/ideals/whatever and the OOo name
<shauno> it'd be nice to keep OOo if they can.  the name has traction
<shauno> (it's also nice to know oracle can be pushed into doing the right thing, if you kick hard enough)
<awilkins> Heh, you'd think the shop who did the screen printing on that keyboard could have at least had the windows key symbol replaced with another Ubuntu logo
<Laney> the right thing is withdrawing their support?
 * awilkins has a beanie hat
<awilkins> I like that the new mug is bigger.... I still use a mug that holds a pint for my tea though
<Laney> http://open.spotify.com/track/7CxzcPcOFlnwNhpF4A72NK :-)
<shauno> Laney: if their 'support' was holding it back, then yes I think letting go is the right thing to do
<awilkins> It's not really doing the right thing though... it's more admitting defeat
<awilkins> Just coincidentally happens to be the best thing for the project
<oimon> is it possible to setup my own playlists in youtube?
<popey> yes
<oimon> :D
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/view_all_playlists
<oimon> cheap mans spotify
<DJones> I wonder whether this is a result of MS buying Skype & google looking to persuade dev's to come up with something as an alternative https://sites.google.com/site/webrtc/blog
<JGJones_> popey - yup...I was after a new keyboard and thought I would buy from Ubuntu store - but couldn't bring myself to buy an Ubuntu keyboard complete with a Windows logo. It's...wrong...a bit like buying Milk Tray, and opening it up to find a small collection of cat's poop.
<bigcalm> Awww, cute
<popey> lol
<jacobw> is anyone following the curious case of missing bbc radio 'pips' ?
<bigcalm> Where did they last hear them?
<gord> that sounds like the worst professor layton game ever :(
<davmor2> gord: I was thinking the same thing
<jacobw> apparently they were discovered missing at the start of PM yesterday.
<popey> a box crashed
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<popey> home time
<jacobw> it seems to have deeply disurbed eddie mair :P
<czajkowski> popey: toodle pip
<davmor2> czajkowski: put me down you don't know where I've been
<czajkowski> fair point
 * czajkowski sprays detol over davmor2 
<jpds> Alright.
<Myrtti> A sudden total failure in generating the pips was experienced on 31 May 2011 when the 17:00 signal did not occur. Both the main generator and the back-up system were rendered non-functional possibly due to problems with the power supply. The BBC elected to broadcast a "dignified silence" in their place at 19:00.[6] By 20:00 the same day, the pips were fixed.
<Myrtti> one has to wonder
<Myrtti> since Finnish national broadcaster has pips too, I wonder where they get theirs from
<jacobw> presumably a more modern source than clever box in the basement.
<davmor2> jacobw: there's nothing clever about it the block with the mic had laryngitis you'll note they came back at shift change time
<jacobw> haha.
<davmor2> bloke even
<JGJones_> davmor2, nothing clever? Hell I'll say that they are clever if they managed to find a speaking block, or was they getting too attracted to their Companion Cube?
<gord> could they just not get the announcer to beep at the microphone?
<jacobw> they seems to think people still set their watch by the pips
<jacobw> lol, eddie mair is now talking about 'icloud', i love it when bbc people are baffled by tech.
<MartijnVdS> They should use https://twitter.com/#!/big_ben_clock
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: They got complaints from pigeon trainers when they changed/removed those pips here in .nl
<shauno> I like the pips.  always remind me of my nan's house
<jacobw> really?
<jacobw> ha.
<jacobw> pple went it alone, and while they've had their share of heartache, they eventually built the shining behemoth they are today.
<jacobw> Microsoft never did that. *IBM* built their market, and Microsoft rode in on the coattails. (See the history of PC-DOS vs MS-DOS.) They certainly took advantage, but *THEY* did not build the market, IBM did.
<jacobw> As far as I can tell, they've NEVER built ANY market. They've always come in as a Johnny-Come-Lately. The 900 lb gorilla J-C-L, but never-the-less, not the innovator.
<jacobw> In the past few years it seems their entire business plan could be summed up simply as "Whatever Google is doing, plus Windows and Office".
<jacobw> right.
<jacobw> I've no idea how that pasted :|
<jacobw> I highlighted it whilst reading it, which put it on the clipboard.. which somehow pasted in to the konsole window..
<MartijnVdS> Go go RBS!
<MartijnVdS> Can't book a ticket on Eurostar  because they're down
<Azelphur> hmm, fun web dev question. I want javascript events to fire on the clients web browser, when the server receives a log message (via UDP), so I assume I would be using long polling javascript to poll the server, and maybe some python to watch the UDP logs
<Azelphur> but what's the most efficient way for the python listening to the UDP logs, to tell the web server to send something to the clients long polling page
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could use WebSockets
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's HTML5-only, but it does what you want
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1253683/websocket-for-html5
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: does that involve the user listening to the UDP logs? that's bad
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no, that involves the user connecting (over TCP) back to the webserver
<Azelphur> oh, I see, so I could do the whole thing in python
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then you can run something on the server to capture the UDP packets and push them back to the client
<Azelphur> luckily the entire audience is 100% going to be using one web browser
<MartijnVdS> (so the client does something like "tail -f")
<Azelphur> so this is either gonna work or not :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Six Months Of Rocking Ubuntu Events - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/01/six-months-of-rocking-ubuntu-events/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yay, the browser supports websocket :D
<BigRedS> I'm trying to do a    for i in {0..10}; do.... but where the 0..10 is passable as an argument to a script
<BigRedS> but I can't wor out how to, anyone got any ideas?
<BigRedS> I want this to Do The Right Thing, basically: http://pastebin.com/0gV8GrCM
<AlanBell> evening all
<BigRedS> g'morning
<bigcalm> Hi AlanBell
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: are you knowledgable with the websockets protocol?
<Azelphur> or anyone? :P
<danfish> Azelphur: it's a fairly new topic, but this chap (who will be at oggcamp I believe may help
<danfish> http://chemicaloliver.net/category/programming/
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I have a guy who knows this stuff, he's just not online :(
<danfish> he's mostly looking at websocket, node.js and mqtt, but the principles are there and it works
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> I'm not doing too terribly, I've got the client connecting to the server, but I can't get the client to send any messages to the server or listen to any messages from the server
<Azelphur> I think I'm doing something to trigger the security cutoff \o/
<danfish> are you using node.js?
<Azelphur> no
<Azelphur> python as the server, javascript as the client :P
<danfish> I tried messing around with pywebsockets, but gave up in the end, and went for node.js - path of least resistance :)
<Azelphur> danfish: interesting, would that allow me to be able to use sockets for non-websockets stuff too though?
<Azelphur> because I need websockets to be talking to non-websockets things.
<danfish> Azelphur: should do - there's even a websocket-flash widget/plugin for non-websockets browsers - can't remember the link.
<danfish> node.js can handle a number of protocols
<Azelphur> danfish: yea, that's one advantage of the environment I'm working in, there will only ever be one browser to worry about
<Azelphur> I'm embedding html inside a game, so it'll always be one browser :)
<Azelphur> might use that if I can't get the python to work
<danfish> good - I think it should work well - it's "in development" but on a small scale it's proving very stable
<danfish> right, dinners is served! laters
<Azelphur> yea, this isn't so much small scale
<Azelphur> XD
<daubers> Evening
<ali1234> websockets :(
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<gord> the windows 7 erm, start bar thing sure is buggy if you put it on the left hand side, guess i'll just leave it at the bottom and spend my life going to the top left corner in windows expecting something to happen
<popey> Evening all
<daubers> o/
<mrwarmth> Evening popey
<jpds> popey: Good evening.
<brobostigon> evening popey
<gord> http://pedrocr.net/text/how-much-gnu-in-gnu-linux interesting, we ship more mozilla code than gnome code
<Laney> why only consider main?
<Laney> bananas
<czajkowski> âââ â   âââ â â âââ
<czajkowski> âââ â   â â âââ âââ
<czajkowski> â â â   â â â â â â
<czajkowski> â â âââ ââ  â â â â
<gord> Laney, have you seen the random crap thats in uni/multiverse? would skew the statistics to the point of uselessness
<Laney> plenty of random crap in main too
<Laney> better to consider the default install or something
<gord> well main is stuff thats officially supported, so that makes sense
<Laney> "actually packaged by Ubuntu" not really sure he knows what he's on about
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-02
<Azelphur> sigh, I broke tornado :(
<Pendulum> Azelphur: that sounds a lot odder with the day I've had
<Azelphur> haha
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I drove past a tornado. I don't live in an area that typically has them
<Pendulum> bah
<Pendulum> AlanBell: sorry
<Pendulum> Azelphur: ^^
<Azelphur> Pendulum: tornado is a multithreaded web server :p
<Azelphur> only thing is, I've magically made it be not multithreaded, at all.
<Azelphur> so it's kinda useless \o/
<Pendulum> Azelphur: I know what it is, just was odd because of the alternate meaning and the fact that I happened to have an experience with the weather-related meaning today
<Azelphur> hehe :
<Azelphur> :)
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<DJones> Morning
<livingdaylight> anyone use Opera? Diigo extension appears not to be working??
<MartijnVdS> Time to switch to a real browser :P
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS: grrr...
<livingdaylight> ^^
<MartijnVdS> What's "Diigo" supposed to do?
<livingdaylight> Opera is a nice browser and do a lot of things really nicely - lots of integration too. I'm slowly getting tired of a "everything is google" world
<livingdaylight> Diigo is a bookmarking/managing/sharing thingy-bob
<MartijnVdS> There's the "Everything is Microsoft" alternative world :)
<livingdaylight> yea, that one sux even moar, :p
<MartijnVdS> but uhm.. so it's de.lico.us-ish?
<livingdaylight> yes
<MartijnVdS> did you do anything that could have broken it?
<MartijnVdS> (update it? or opera?)
<livingdaylight> maybe I need to restart Opera. no, all i did was install the extension
<MartijnVdS> Restarting sounds like a good idea, could you try that?
<MartijnVdS> (I know a very Windows solution... :))
<livingdaylight> actually, works now...
<livingdaylight> for some reason diigo doesn't work on all webpages
<MartijnVdS> Maybe some websites have "Bookmarking prohibited" in their EULAs :)
<livingdaylight> so, that's all it was, lol
<livingdaylight> really? why would someone not want their website to be bookmarked?
<MartijnVdS> Nah
<MartijnVdS> it could still be a broken website though
<MartijnVdS> (you know those sites that never change the URL bar, and use frames etc., they're Hard to bookmark properly)
<livingdaylight> right, un-intentionally you mean
<livingdaylight> ok
<MartijnVdS> yes
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<livingdaylight> Opera now offers extensions or addons which was a feature missing a couple years back compared to FF. What FF and other browsers now lack in comparison and which is one feature I like with Chrome is the url bar is also search bar and hints before one's hardly begun typing in the word.
<diplo> Morning all
<livingdaylight> gm comrades bigcalm | diplo
<kazade> morning
<kazade> I've just realized I've done something stupid with Ubuntu One :/
<kazade> I had ~30G of pictures in there, and when I configured my laptop the other day I decided I didn't need my pictures on it so I unticked "Synchronize this folder"
<kazade> that doesn't do what I thought it did!
<kvarley> How do I remove gnome? I did a partial upgrade through the update-manager and it's installed gnome entries to the login screen. It's changed the login manager and now Ubuntu doesn't work, it loads but nothing functions and the graphics are all glitchy.
<BigRedS> kvarley: what do you want to have instead?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: open up a terminal, install ubuntu-desktop using apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: partial upgrades can be scary :)
<MartijnVdS> maybe apt-get dist-upgrade (check what it'll do before doing it!)
<BigRedS> Hm. Is there a way to get the login window to not obscure my password when I enter it?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you want to show your password to shoulder-surfers?
<MartijnVdS> I don't think that'll be easy
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: no
<BigRedS> There's nobody else in the building
<jpds> BigRedS: Sure?
<MartijnVdS> not even a security camera?
<BigRedS> I've just no idea what characters my keyboard is sending, and I can't find a way to find out
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: There is a security camera which can see my keyboard but not my monitor
<jpds> BigRedS: Ctrl-Alt-F1; and type.
<BigRedS> Which is handy for look-busy
<BigRedS> jpds: yeah, the characters look fine there
<BigRedS> that's what's puzzling me. You used to be able to test this in the 'username' box
<BigRedS> Ah, caps lock
<BigRedS> peculiar
<BigRedS> lower-case in the TTYs, upper case n the login window
<MartijnVdS> I think capslock is a per-tty setting
<MartijnVdS> (and X runs its own tty)
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> still, I pour apple juice all over my keyboard way more frequently than I log in where someone's looking over my shoulder :)
<BigRedS> (the original problem was each keypress generating three characters, which I've since put down to yesterday's lack of hand/eye coordination)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I did that and there's no change
<kvarley> BigRedS: I understand that Ubuntu uses gnome and want to keep it. But there are gnome entries in the login manager and it's actually using straight gnome login manager and stuff so it's overwritten elements of ubuntu
<czajkowski> Aloha
<wintellect> o/
<MartijnVdS> morning czajkowski
<BigRedS> kvarley: by 'ubuntu' do you mean 'unity' at the end there?
<BigRedS> else i'm a bit confused (but MartijnVdS probably isn't )
<MartijnVdS> If he did a partial upgrade, that means update-manager was confused and needed to do a dist-upgrade
<MartijnVdS> So I guess it wasn't a 10.10->11.04 thing
<kvarley> BigRedS: Found the problem, for some reason when I installed libgtkmm 3 support for programming it marked gnome3 to be be installed but it only happened when the updates came through
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> The Gnome3 packages aren't compatible with the Gnome2 ones used by Unity/Ubuntu
<BigRedS> ah! gnome3!
<kvarley> <3 synaptic
 * MartijnVdS prefers dpkg and aptitude :)
 * BigRedS has apt-get too ingrained in muscle memory to use aptitude
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: alias apt-get aptitude
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: done :)
<BigRedS> Doesn't aptitude do that mutltiple-solutions thing?
<BigRedS> and score them
<BigRedS> or is that only for dist-upgrades
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: only if that's necessary
<MartijnVdS> It does autoremove automatically when you remove/purge a package
<oimon> i can see why they took aptitude off the cd ..it's huge :)
<MartijnVdS> which is nice
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> does it have a way of purging an already removed package?
<MartijnVdS> dunno
<MartijnVdS> dpkg does that for me :)
<BigRedS> ah, that'll do. How? :)
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge some_packagE_name
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> That's nice and simple
<oimon> man aptitude...purge is there
<BigRedS> yeah, but only for a package that's already installed
<BigRedS> and I don't want to uninstall the alternative to install the original in order to purge it
<kvarley> I find the package in synaptic and get the file list, then rm all the files listed
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: This purges all packages that have been removed: dpkg --purge `dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk '{print $2}'`
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> popeyman
<kvarley> \0 popey =)
<czajkowski> popey: elllo
<BigRedS> kvarley: that involves an afwul lot of work I'd rather have the computer do :)
<kvarley> BigRedS: True, I had to do it with catalyst once =(
<popey> kazade: what does it do?
<popey> delete all your photos?
<kazade> yeah
<kazade> well, from the ubuntu one storage
<popey> :S
<kazade> and now I don't know if I have them all on my desktop PC
<kazade> I'm waiting for some guy in the U.S to wake up to see if they can recover the folder
<oimon> i just filled up my /boot :(
<popey> you have a /boot? How quaint.
<oimon> scared to reboot now, snce it happened during a apt upgrade
<BigRedS> if a grub-update works I imagine the worst you'll have is an incomplete kernel
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yeah who cares about those anyway :P
<BigRedS> I'd be tempted to make space in /boot and do apt-get -f install
<MartijnVdS> or an incomplete initrd
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: well, he's clearly got a collection of them
<BigRedS> :)
<oimon> well it says it's OK
<oimon> after cleaning kernels and doing a grub update...although when apt-get dist-upgrade finished, /boot was 100%...so rather worrying
<BigRedS> how big is your /boot?
<BigRedS> (and why's it on a separate partition?)
<oimon> 145M
<oimon> used to be enough in the olden days :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I remember when 640k was enough for everyone :)
<oimon> putting /boot on a separate partition comes from the redhat habit of putting / on an lvm, requiring /boot on a separate partition
<oimon> and / is on ext4 on my machine, which was new at the time
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> On desktops, I still just throw everything into a big ext3 /
<JGJones_> me too
<MartijnVdS> ext4 here
<JGJones_> hmm my daughter just saw the unity interface for the first time (upgraded yesterday), and after showing her around it, she tells me that she like it and want it on her computer. Her computer's a old macbook running osx.
<oimon> my home is mounted via nfs
<oimon> i have /boot, / and /scratch
<MartijnVdS> Time for some LA Noire :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> JGJones_: put her dock on the left, job done
<popey> (I have my osx dock on the left)
<czajkowski> tea toast and peanutbutter is the breakie of gods
<JGJones_> popey - yeah I did that. She now want the colours too.
<JGJones_> czajkowski, I do worry...don't you realise how peanut butter is made? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/314653/peanut.jpg
<czajkowski> awwwwww
<czajkowski> crude!
<JGJones_> by the way...what do I need to have irc running on a server so that I can connect to it from any computer in the house (the server would be always connected to the freenode irc) -
<Laney> console or gui?
<daubers> Morning
<JGJones_> console since it'll go onto a server
<MartijnVdS> screen, irssi
<brobostigon> :)
<JGJones_> I can then connect to irssi using xchat?
<Laney> I was talking about the client
<bigcalm> JGJones_: you can use irssi as a proxy as well
<Laney> irssi can run a proxy so you can do that
<Laney> there's smuxi or quassel which can run a server/client thing
<JGJones_> proxy..that's the word I was trying to remember - yup after a irc proxy
 * JGJones_ goes to check out irssi
<oimon> why would a machine dislpay "boot error" when booting from usb when other machines act OK with the same usb stick
<siliconmeadow> anyone here know if there is an issue with ubuntu repos this morning? The machines I'm trying to update are ... well not getting updated.
<siliconmeadow> oimon: do the other machines have the same bios, etc?
<kvarley> Can't install ubuntu-desktop =( http://paste.ubuntu.com/616566/
<kvarley> It's because the gnome3 ppa managed to overwrite the gnome stuff when I ran system updates, so now it's corrupted it or something.
<brobostigon> siliconmeadow: i am using the german repos here, and its updating fine with "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade"
<popey> brobostigon: i think you mean "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<brobostigon> popey: goodpoint,yes.
<livingdaylight> why is unity bar stuck on the left and not available as a dock stn. top or bottom?
<Laney> settings are bad
<Laney> </troll>
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: it's a return to the gnome of old
<BigRedS> less configuration = less confusion
<BigRedS> :)
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: ic, didn't see your meaning at first. Then why stick it on left by default?
<livingdaylight> I always heard that gnome was just as configurable as kde but it was more "hidden"
<BigRedS> back in the day, the big complaint people had about Gnome was that all the defaults were wrong and you couldn't change them
<BigRedS> except the people who liked it, who said that all the defaults were right and you shouldn't change them
<livingdaylight> lol, you're right
<BigRedS> and, basically, that's where Unity is now
<ali1234> much like unity, the only people who liked gnome back then were the developers
<ali1234> and eventually they were forced to relent because everyone switched to KDE
<BigRedS> and those for whom the defaults happened to fit
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> thing is, this isnt (I gather) an idealistic issue
<ali1234> the defaults didn't fit anyone
<davmor2> morning all
<ali1234> spatial browsing is still rubbish
<siliconmeadow> and then KDE shot themselves in the foot
<BigRedS> It's not that Unity is under the impression these things *shouldnt* be changeable, it's just htat nobody's yet written the bit that makes them changable
<ali1234> it was still the default in gnome until 3.0 as well
<BigRedS> spatial browsing?
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski just well cause her has probably done something to deserve it ;)
<livingdaylight> I wondered too; spatial browsing?
<ali1234> no, shuttleworth actually believes these things shouldn't be changable
<BigRedS> oh
<ali1234> spatial bvrowsing is when you open nautilus and click an icon, and it opens a new window for the new directory
<gord> [citation needed]
<BigRedS> Hah. So Unity is actually striving to be the new gnome-in-the-late-nineties?
 * czajkowski tickets davmor2 and pours jam all over him
<ali1234> and you can only have one window of each directory open as well
<BigRedS> ali1234: I gave up on naughtylus ages ago
<BigRedS> it never did what I wanted/expected it to do
<livingdaylight> ali1234: why would shuttleworth believe something shouldn't be configurable? "shouldn't" is such a strong word
<gord> the reason why the unity launcher is on the left and not on the bottom/top is because of the interactions with the ubuntu button
<ali1234> livingdaylight: because it fragments the user base apparently
<davmor2> czajkowski: ticketing me?
<gord> NOT because someone said "don't let users move it"
<livingdaylight> ali1234: is he also against other window managers for the same reason? I thought Linux was all about choice?
<BigRedS> he's not 'against' other WMS
<BigRedS> hence [X|K|L]buntu
<BigRedS> er, with another 'u'
<livingdaylight> yet believes giving people choice of configuration will fragment userbase? makes no sense
<BigRedS> gord: that was more what I suspected - there's no reason to not except that nobody's made it work yet
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: ubuntu's the only distro that regards [distro + kde] and [distro + gnome] to be two separate distros
<livingdaylight> gord could ubuntu button not stay stuck with top panel or move with the bar wherever it gets positioned?
<ali1234> what exactly is that ubuntu button supposed to do?
<JGJones_> spatial browsing? In Unity? I don't see this - nautlius stay with same window when browsing.
<gord> there is so much gossiping around unity/ubuntu these days with no actual hard facts - just assumptions - it doesnt' do this or that because everyone making it is evil or stupid, its getting to be rather annoying
<kazade> livingdaylight, +1, I've always thought the ubuntu button should be another entry in the launcher, not part of the panel
<BigRedS> gord: it probably doesn't help that there's no big coherent "The Plan" document floating around
<kazade> then again, I also think the panel needs to go completely :p
<BigRedS> so all anyone's doing is guessing
<gord> livingdaylight, hard if you want a panel at the top and a launcher along the bottom
<gord> BigRedS, if you find one of those, i wouldn't mind a look :) unity is always in active development, there is no "the plan.doc", its flexable and changing always like any other software
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, I'm not really suggesting there should be one
<BigRedS> but obviously in the absence of a public plan, everyone's going to have their own guesses/rumours about what the plan actually is
<ali1234> so shuttleworth said of moving the launcher: "I'm afraid that won't work with our broader design goals, so we won't  implement that. We want the launcher always close to the Ubuntu button."
<oimon> wow this room is chatty today
<livingdaylight> I don't know what the plan is; as a user i'm just reporting that the thingy bar stuck at the left is a mite annoying. If gnome is going in the direction of copying osx then why not turn it into a nice docking station?
<gord> ali1234, which is pretty much what i just said
<ali1234> gord: you claim that a patch allowing this would be accepted into the mainline unity project?
<kvarley> To cut a long story short. I added the gnome3 ppa and ran updates, it upgraded my gnome so ubuntu wouldn't work. I removed the packages it installed and the ppa. Now I can't install gnome or ubuntu-desktop, how can I fix this?
<gord> ali1234, no, like i said, there isn't a good solution, the launcher has to be near the bfb
<livingdaylight> and launcher and ubuntu button can't and must not be separated? and ubuntu button must be in the top left-hand corner?
<ali1234> gord: oh, so when you said "it can't be moved only because nobody implemented it yet" that was in fact totally untrue?
<gord> ali1234, BigRedS said that
<ali1234> oh yeah, sorry :)
<livingdaylight> kvarley: good argument for a rolling distro. In theory should make what youre doing easier. Now you've opened a pandora's box. That's why I never mess with my install with adding kde and this and that. It changes the integrity of default installation and makes going back hard - no matter what they tell you is supposed to happen in theory.
<kazade> I still don't see why the bfb can't just be attached to the launcher... and then you can have pretty much any panel/launcher position you want
<ali1234> moving the launcher wouldn't fix any of the serious design problems with unity anyway
<kazade> true
<ali1234> like i said yesterday, docks are broken by design
<kvarley> livingdaylight: I hate to be irritating but - what did that message gain me? I realise I'm in a bad position, the only way out will be a reinstall afaik. Just irritating that Ubuntu can't handle gnome 3 packages
<kazade> in fact, moving the launcher is the least of my worries :p
<ali1234> and global menu is an abomination
<kazade> the whole panel is an abomination
<kazade> if the panel ceased to exist, I'd love unity
<kazade> shove the indicators elsewhere and stop compressing stuff into a tiny space for no reason. Or, just not merge the titlebar for maximized windows and shove in an OSX style global menu
<livingdaylight> kvarley: clearly nothing, sorry. I knew that, but was sort of commiserating with you having been there myself. Reinstall is probably the safest bet
<livingdaylight> ali1234: do you use ubuntu gnome or something else?
<kvarley> livingdaylight: Hehe sorry, that sounded a little aggressive on my part. Am just gutted I've messed up the install. At least I managed to install kubuntu-desktop for the time being
<ali1234> livingdaylight: i use unity
<livingdaylight> kvarley: no worries
<livingdaylight> ali1234: i got the impression you didn't like unity; hence might use something else
<ali1234> i don't like it
<ali1234> i use it anyway
<livingdaylight> lol
<ali1234> i like it more than any of the alternatives
<livingdaylight> wow
<gord> kvarley, so the problem with installing gnome3 ppa on natty is that you are basically grabbing libraries from ubuntu 11.10 and throwing them in to 11.04, which causes problems, i mean, its really not advised :) unless you are brobostigon and have magical powers to make it all work okay
<livingdaylight> I'd like to see gnome3 in action but not messing with ppa's
<ali1234> you're not missing anything
<ali1234> gnome3 is like unity except worse
<ali1234> gnome-shell that is
<BigRedS> haha
<brobostigon> gord: hehe :) cheers.
<BigRedS> I was expecting most of the unity-dislikers to prefer gnome3
<ali1234> i prefer gnome classic
<ali1234> but nobody is willing to support it any more so i have to stop using it
<BigRedS> ali1234: gnome classic? I just call it Gnome
<BigRedS> it shipped in Squeeze. That's support for about five years
<brobostigon> i just dont like unity's workspace implementation, gnome-shell's is better, good workspaces are importent for my sanity.
<ali1234> yeah unfortunately squeeze doesn't support my video card properly
<livingdaylight> I actually don't dislike unity; but see how it can be better; more configurability and by that i largely mean maneouvribility would be nice for a start
<BigRedS> gnome3's workspaces are *good*?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: for me, yes.
<livingdaylight> for some reason workspaces in unity are limited to 4
<gord> nope
<gord> you can make more
<livingdaylight> gord ?
<BigRedS> nah, but it does rather rudely make them into a squre on upgrade
 * livingdaylight begs gord Please tell me HOW?
<gord> livingdaylight, its a compiz option, we just don't have a good way of letting you make more without opening up ccsm right now
<livingdaylight> so, its in ccsm?
<gord> livingdaylight, its in ccsm somewhere, i think general options? you can select the number of horizontal/vertical workspaces
<livingdaylight> kewl, lets see...
<BigRedS> brobostigon: I'm intrigued. Do you just scroll through until you get to the right workspace, or just 'know' when workspace 2 has gone and what was on 4 is now on 3? I spent a while trying to get used to it and just couldn't manage the whole empty-workspaces-disappear thing
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i do keep trck, i my unconcious, what is where, yes. and i normall switch between workspaces, either with alt-tab, when i am un main window view, and sorts apps based of wrokspaces. or if i am in activities, i use the switcher. but yes, i do keep track,what is where.
<BigRedS> Ahhh, that's the bit I didn't manage
<livingdaylight> gord: don't see it right now. But if you say it is I'll have another look later
<gord> livingdaylight, general options, desktop size
<brobostigon> BigRedS: best thing would be to use alt-tab, as it worts everything, firstlt, based on workspace, then app, then that apps windows.
<BigRedS> Hm. Anyone able to reccomend a terminal-based Nagios status monitor that I can connect to two nagios machines?
<BigRedS> brobostigon: the alt-tab I found infurating, too :) It seemed to make it take forever to find things. I think the larger problem was that I approached it wanting to carry on working as I already do
<BigRedS> and one of the stated points of it is to encourage people to not do that
<brobostigon> BigRedS: it encourages,better organisation of your apps and their windows, and the workspaces theyare in.
<livingdaylight> gord: general options yes, desktop size no? http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/815/ccsm.png/
<livingdaylight> gord scratch that - got it
<kazade> livingdaylight, you need to click "General Options" under general
<livingdaylight> kazade: ^^
<kazade> :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: previously there was not such organisation, an it made for very bad organisation, for me.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: for a particular definition of 'better' :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, quite. :)
<BigRedS> for ages, I've had ws1 for local shells, 2 for web+IM, 3 for remote shells and 4 for mail
<brobostigon> BigRedS: ok.
<BigRedS> and and I kept finding mail was on 3 because I had no local shells open...
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, that sounds normal.
<BigRedS> Other than the workspace model, I found it quite agreeable
<brobostigon> :)
<BigRedS> except that when I tried to set the default number of workspaces to four it broke it in some way that I couldn't be arsed to fix
<brobostigon> hmm,weird.
<BigRedS> I'd fiddled with it quite a bit - it was probably my fault rather than gnome's
<kazade> I like the look of Gnome 3
<BigRedS> but I've lost most of my enthusiasm for window managers of late. I just want them to work...
<kazade> more so than Unity
<kazade> I just haven't got around to "breaking" my Natty install to try it
<brobostigon> BigRedS: maybe, yes,i have broken things plenty. by fiddling sometimes.
<Laney> how's this for a program name
<Laney> !info bognor-regis
<lubotu3> bognor-regis (source: bognor-regis): Media daemon and play queue manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.2-2build1 (natty), package size 18 kB, installed size 372 kB
<BigRedS> haha
<davmor2> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/229187/30_days_withubuntu_linux.html many of you may of seen this already but I thought it worth highlighting
<gord> oh he's just started? my poor attention span will not be able to pay attention ;)
<selinuxium> hi all. o/
<davmor2> morning selinuxium
<mrwarmth> selinuxium: afternoon
<BigRedS> g'morning selinuxium!
<selinuxium> :)
<selinuxium> Having a mare with one of my servers today... :)
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<selinuxium> hey dwatkins
<mrwarmth> selinuxium, what's up with them?
<oimon> just had an unproductive 1/2 hour on kde :( the panel crashed, ark terminated without error because of quota fillup...unfortunately RH6.0 is still on KDE 4.3.4
<oimon> i don't think they can call it stable
<selinuxium> mrwarmth, running on vmware. sluggish..
<selinuxium> looks like I had automatic security updates enabled which updated the kernel...
<selinuxium> Reboot last night has left machine running like a dog. need to recompile vmtools for the new kernel...
<oimon> watching the windows8 teaser video..wonder what spec hardware it is
<JGJones_> oimon, obviously quite a high spec - they always use high spec to make everything as smooth as possible. Don't worry...when they release, it'll come with the minimum spec of 386SX and 8Mb or something equally daft.
<mrwarmth> selinuxium, at least the server's secure though :)
<selinuxium> mrwarmth, lol
<oimon> anyone with small children that can recommend some easy fitting locks for low level kitchen cupboards?
<dogmatic69> oimon: you get some things like cable ties for the younger kids
<oimon> looking at these but haven't used them irl http://www.babysecurity.co.uk/products/1756/Emmay-Magnetic-Lock--4-Locks-1-key.html
<dogmatic69> something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000NUT5PS/ref=asc_df_B000NUT5PS3064770?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B000NUT5PS
<dogmatic69> the one i pasted does not require any tools etc which is good
<oimon> dogmatic69: have you used that one?
<oimon> might be good for my cupboard under the sink
<oimon> currently i struggle to open the baby gate one-handed...baby laughs at me when i can't do it..i think there's a problem with it :)
<DJones> Heh http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=156456
<JGJones_> oimon - don't worry...years later, my kids still laugh at me and think I'm an idiot...you get used to it :D
<MartijnVdS> \
<MartijnVdS> \o/ hotel & Eurostar booked
<oimon> for oggcamp ? :P
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no, can't attend (have to be in Riga for YAPC the day after)
<oimon> :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Going to the scifi exhibition in the BL
<oimon> i think my missis is going to that (on a different day)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-May/029624.html)
<oimon> not really info SF
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> I'm quite excited about that :)
<daubers> Need to rough out a timetable for the day and decide what bread/cake to make for it
<czajkowski> CAKE!!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: LIES
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<czajkowski> nope never
<MartijnVdS> Played too much portal :)
<czajkowski> daubers: always has cake
<czajkowski> and we even have pimms also!
<daubers> czajkowski: True :)
<selinuxium> Pie flavoured pie!
<popey> czajkowski: I think you mean Pimm's âº
<selinuxium> hey popey
<popey> hello
 * daubers needs to make 2 cakes, one for geeknic, one for oggcamp
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<czajkowski> popey: you are no fun when you are pedantic spelling man
<czajkowski> :(
 * czajkowski goes and sulks on the bold step 
<davmor2> czajkowski: see now if I'd of done that I'd of been sent to the naughty not popey no he does it and you go to the step, oh the injustice
 * daubers waits for his pot noodle to cook
<czajkowski> davmor2: he's got that daddy look about him
<oimon> Pimm's Â®
<oimon> ahem
<ali1234> why do i keep seeing âº
<oimon> you should see Â®Â®Â®Â®
<bigcalm> ali1234: because popey is easily amused
<ali1234> is it my client?
<Pendulum> Myrtti: thank you!!!!
<oimon> daubers: which flavour pot noodle
<daubers> oimon: Brown :)
<daubers> Beef and Tomato
<oimon> tomato and beef
<oimon> soya substitute
<oimon> :P
<oimon> hmm i wonder why any video clips i take at concerts have terrible sound quality compared to other youtubers
<MartijnVdS> oimon: because you put your finger on the mic?
<MartijnVdS> My Ixus gets great audio, as long as I don't cover that hole (or point it at the drummer)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mM8TexJK9Y and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZGlYIdv7Mo
<davmor2> oimon: curry
<oimon> MartijnVdS:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH-KpFBowX8
<oimon> v rough sound
<MartijnVdS> oimon: sounds like it's too loud for the mic
<oimon> distortion due to max noise level reached i think
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> there's no settings to change that but other people produce lovely sound quality from the same gig
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it depends on the make/model of the camera
<MartijnVdS> oimon: and the quality of the mic/filter
<MartijnVdS> oimon: some can handle loud sounds better than others
<MartijnVdS> also, standing "podium-side" of the front speakers (i.e. behind them, on the artist side) helps -- sound is less loud there
<MartijnVdS> (it doesn't hit the mic straight on)
<oimon> yeah, although it's a weird venue and the speakers are at right angles to the stage, so i wasn't in a direct line, and it was the quietest concert i've ever been to volume-wise
<MartijnVdS> oimon: what kind of camera were you using?
<oimon> htc desire
<MartijnVdS> that's the problem -- phone cams aren't made for loud noise
<MartijnVdS> other people would have been using "proper" cameras (ixus, maybe even eos, stuff like that)
<oimon> except....other people manage ok with their phones
<oimon> dare i say ..iphones
<popey> ali1234: I aliased colon bracket to âº in my client
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Probably means HTC desires are bad ;)
<oimon> cameras have beeter mics than phones?
<MartijnVdS> Yes, phone mics are made for conversation, not loud noises
<MartijnVdS> Camera mics are more general-purpose
<MartijnVdS> or so I imagine
<shauno> most phones want to localise a source.  they have a good idea where your face is going to be, and don't particularly want to listen to everyone else in the room
<oimon> so long as all phones have the same problem, i'm kind of happy
<Laney> bah BAH
<Laney> how can gwibber still not have proxy support >:(
<oimon> Laney: http://ubuntuone.com/p/x6A/
<Laney> gnome already knows my proxy settings
<oimon> unless you use anything besides twitter/identica
<MartijnVdS> Laney: file bugs
<Laney> there already is
<oimon> i found the responsiveness of hotot 1000x the level of gwibber
<Laney> one
<Laney> but thanks for the suggestion :-)
<popey> Laney: I still maintain that _all_ free software developers should setup a proxy and sit behind that for a year
<oimon> hihihih
<popey> _all_ of these stupid bugs would be fixed
<MartijnVdS> also, turn off their monitors
<mrwarmth> glad I'm not the only one who finds gwibber a bit sluggish, checking out hotot now
<MartijnVdS> that would fix lots of accessibility bugs
<Laney> popey: yeah, good idea
<Laney> it's basically why I bothered to add proxy support to banshee
<oimon> also use "normal" spec machines
<Laney> so it would work at work
<oimon> rather than "it doesn't do that on my million GB core i-7 machine"
<mrwarmth> All developers should be forced to use an entry level spec machine one day a week to keep them humble
<gord> no :P
<MartijnVdS> A 486 should be enough!
<MartijnVdS> with a 3dfx voodoo card
<mrwarmth> gord, I'm just bitter because I use a low spec machine every day of the week
<MartijnVdS> great, ipv6 packet loss on LINX
<jpds> Nothing terribly important then.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: guess how I'm connected to my VPS :)
<shauno> almost related, I've discovered a fun 'feature' in osx's gettaddrinfo() that's breaking most ipv6 lookups for me :(
<shauno> it does two lookups in parallel for A and quadA. takes the first result and runs with it.
<shauno> so there's no rhyme or rhythm behind whether a name will return 6. if 4's cached on my isp's nameserver, 4 wins
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Yeah, it's known broken
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and apple claims NOTABUG
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also, it can't cache different TTLs for v6 and v4
<shauno> yeah. I found a whole presentation on why this is a feature :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so if AAAA has a TTL of 600, and A 6000, things go _wrong_ after 600s (but before 6000s)
<MartijnVdS> we'll see how well it works on Wednesday (world ipv6 day)
<shauno> :)
<shauno> only solution I've found so far is to use only a dns server with a v6 address.  that way all requests to it are dual-stacked, so it won't have a v4-heavy cache
<MartijnVdS> just disable v6
<MartijnVdS> you'll still have google, youtube, facebook
<oimon> i wish centos would hurry up and release centos6...we're seeing a lot of noobs on the SL mailing list as a result of SL6 being out for months :P
<MartijnVdS> http://test-ipv6.com/
<MartijnVdS> ^ shauno what does that do on a mac?
<shauno> I get 10/10 on both at home
<shauno> but with a note that it's preferring v4
<MartijnVdS> same
<shauno> it's only an issue for things like ipv6.kernel.org, where the content presented over v4 isn't the same
<MartijnVdS> my ISP/employer also set up v6 glue for our main domain's nameservers the other day
<shauno> I did that a few months ago.  was fun, because I had no idea what glue was previously :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.ip6.nl/hall-of-fame.html
<shauno> wahey .. it gave my domain thumbs up :)
<MartijnVdS> what's your domain?
<shauno> http://ip6.nl/test?domain=0fec92a7;oneil.me.uk
<MartijnVdS> yay
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't have Google-v6 access, it seems
<MartijnVdS> My domain is v6-capable except for the MX bits
<shauno> it's kinda wrong because I broke my secondary MX
<shauno> but oh well
<shauno> should fix that, but I want to finish tidying up so I can do-over on debian
<DJones> I know people like Apple but this is a bit desperate http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/02/ipad_kidney/
<MartijnVdS> Yay urban legends :)
<DJones> At least the scar looks real http://life.globaltimes.cn/life/2011-06/661408.html :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Oh the operation might be real. It's the story behind it that I doubt :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Agreed, but it must be true, its on El Reg ;-)
<oimon> or more like..boy sells kidney for shopping spree and drugs binge
<MartijnVdS> oimon: to finance opium habit? :)
 * oimon wants a beefy miracle t-shirt and doesn't even intend on using fedora
<DJones> oimon: "beefy miracle" makes me think of Bothams Ashes in 1981
<oimon> i want this t-shirt http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/5533211628/
<DJones> :)
<MartijnVdS> omg
<MartijnVdS> Wear it to a vegan convention
<selinuxium> Old MacDonald had a farm... Om Nom Nom Nom Nom...
<davmor2> selinuxium: ...and on that farm he had a pig.....okay who ate the pig... Om Nom Nom Nom Nom...
<selinuxium>  :)
<eoke> Hi I'm writing a little interface to a piece of hardware that uses XML over sockets.  The issue is I don't have access to the piece of hardware to test it at the moment.  So what I would like to do is put together a script that listens for a connection and returns a given xml message in response to a give xml requeset.  Any CLI commands you guys can suggest I've already tried netcat but can only get it to send a single message as soon as the client appli
<eoke> cation connects.
<BigRedS> eoke: tcpserver?
<BigRedS> http://cr.yp.to/ucspi-tcp/tcpserver.html
<BigRedS> I've never used it myself, though. only things that have
<eoke> Cheers BigRedS that may do just what I'm after thank you.
<Azelphur> http://skype-open-source.blogspot.com/2011/06/skype-protocol-reverse-engineered.html
<Azelphur> finally
<MartijnVdS> cue protocol change in 5..4..3..2
<Azelphur> hehe
<DJones> Typical, any microsoft software can be hacked :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: all software can be reverse-engineered
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Yep, although it shows how much people care that nobody has really reverse-engineered MS Publisher
<MartijnVdS> DJones: or Visio file format
<DJones> I've never looked at visio so I don't know how difficult those files are
<MartijnVdS> They're probably not that hard
<MartijnVdS> but there aren't any similar enough tools in Linux, I think
<eoke> Open/Libre office draw has some of the same features, not bad in a bind.
<MartijnVdS> sure, but it's not quite the same
<MartijnVdS> though people love my graphviz diagrams :)
<MartijnVdS> well, graphs really :)
<DJones> eoke: It wasn't so much the features I was thinking about, more the file types
 * DJones wonders if popey will be buying an Xperia Play http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/02/xperia_play_new_games_at_e3/
<popey> he will not
<popey> minecraft is planned to follow on iOS
<DJones> Heh
<popey> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/367768/asus-to-ship-ubuntu-netbooks
<MartijnVdS> cool
<Myrtti> Pendulum: hope the package contents come in useful
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
<Myrtti> I on the otherhand needed to reschedule flights back to Finland even earlier...
<Myrtti> just hoping Ill make it back in time.
<Myrtti> see you, -->
<czajkowski> Myrtti: take care
<Pendulum> Myrtti: considering they came right after one of the scarier experiences I've had, they've already been useful!
<Pendulum> and the mug is beautiful :)
<KrimZon> in a gnome 2 desktop, are the workspaces part of metacity?
<AlanBell> evening all
<Pendulum> hiya AlanBell
<gord> hey AlanBell, saw you crop up in the font video the other day, the entire affair was kind of weird - spent the entire time going "this is just all the people i know o_O"
<AlanBell> o/ Pendulum
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, Ivanka wondered about grabbing people to interview, it was a bit odd, I was just there for the beer
 * AlanBell has 7 minutes of internet remaining :(
<Laney> :(
<AlanBell> it was free wifi in the bar up to last night
<Pendulum> aww
<AlanBell> now you have to buy tokens
 * Pendulum hugs AlanBell 
 * AlanBell hugs Pendulum 
<AlanBell> just got to the bottom of my email list (and beer)
<shauno> I can't figure out how debian's postfix is this broken out of the box :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-03
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Cool Projects That Need Your Help - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/03/cool-projects-that-need-your-help/
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Hi diplo
<diplo> Quiet in here this morning
<DJones> Yes, I was thinking that, one comment between 10pm and 8am, pretty much unheard of
<dogmatic69> is it correct to call ubuntu Unix?
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> Ubuntu is a distrabution of Linux which strives to be POSIX compatable
<dogmatic69> thats what i thought
<dogmatic69> "But if you consider Portable Operating System Interface (POSIX) standards then Linux can be considered as UNIX."
<DJones> dogmatic69: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/what-is-the-difference-between-linux-and-unix/
<dogmatic69> DJones: that is where the quote is from
<DJones> Heh
 * DJones debates whether to buy minecraft having finally got the old version running on my laptop, I didn't think it ran on Intel graphics, but seems ok (if a little slow) with intel hd graphics 
<bigcalm> DJones: do it!
<DJones> Just need to pick a username that isn't taken
<DJones> ok, now bought
<MartijnVdS> UNIXish
<bigcalm> Now you join the clan in #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<DJones> Heh, good point
<popey> morning all
<Psychobudgie> morning popey
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<wintellect> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey wintellect
<BigRedS> su
<BigRedS> gah
<BigRedS> confused terminator again :/
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "I'll be back"
<czajkowski> aloha
<Ng> BigRedS: ooi in what way is it becoming confused?
<BigRedS> Ng: it seems that, after a few goes of adding and removing panes, it 'forgets' where they are
<BigRedS> so alt+left might actually go up
<BigRedS> er, no, not that bad actuall
<Ng> ahh the navigation
<BigRedS> alt+up will for a while go to top-left, then at some point start going to top-right
<BigRedS> yeah
<Ng> I should never have let that in at all, it's too hard to do
<BigRedS> I'm always quite amazed that it works at all, so I'm quite accepting of it stopping
<BigRedS> no, leave it in!
<BigRedS> even buggy, it's invaluable!
<BigRedS> I just need to restart it every few weeks, it's no great hardship
<BigRedS> or I could just pay attention to what I'm doing
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 tickles popey and prods czajkowski 
 * czajkowski stbas davmor2 
<davmor2> wow czajkowski has turned me into saint bas nice
 * czajkowski frowns at the keyboard 
<czajkowski> stupid spaces between keys
<davmor2> czajkowski: only a poor workwoman blames her tools :P
<DJones> Wouldn't a poor workwoman have sold her tools to buy food, so couldn't blame the said tools
<BigRedS> if she'd sold her tools, she wouldn't be poor any more
<davmor2> or a workwoman
<DJones> If she didn't have tools, she wouldn't be a workwoman either,
<BigRedS> she could use someone else's tools
 * bigcalm melts
<czajkowski> or can I just blame the mac layout of keys
<czajkowski> eh
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> That's fine. Mac keyboards look nice, work terribly
<czajkowski> has anyone had/seen a bug on natty with alt tabbing not working
<czajkowski> when they upgraded
<BigRedS> I've had the alt-tabbed-to thing raised but not given focus
<BigRedS> but thats as broken as I've seen
<czajkowski> just wondering on a bug number
<czajkowski> had a mate whinge about it
<czajkowski> then moved to debian over it
<BigRedS> oh, I've not seen a bug for it
<gord> czajkowski, sounds like they had a custom compiz setup when upgrading and for some reason the alt tab plugin wasn't selecting in their plugins, not heard of a bug number but honestly its one of those hard to fix ones, if people want to customise compiz they should be able to, even if that means breaking their system ;)
<dogmatic69> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=fedora15_v_ubuntu1104&num=1
<andylockran> can anyone recommend a photobin website ?
<andylockran> like pastebin
<jpds> andylockran: imgur.com
<DJones> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<andylockran> thanks
<davmor2> andylockran: ubuntu one with http link enabled?
 * popey grumbles about ubuntu one being useless when you're behind a proxy
<davmor2> popey: I hope you have reported it :)
<popey> yes
<davmor2> popey: oh and never let up on aq till he fixes it
<popey> 2 years ago
<popey> bug 387308
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 387308 in Ubuntu One Client "HTTPS Proxy Support for file sync" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387308
<brobostigon> ok,where in drupal do i change the allowed file upload size. please.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: 6 or 7?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: 7
<Seeker`> Can anyone recommend a wireless N adaptor that works well with ubnutu?
 * Azelphur looks around
<gord> in my experience? no
<brobostigon> Azelphur: thank you.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: are you using any special module for file uloads?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: no.
<andylockran> can anyone tell me how to detect what display X is running on for a remote machine?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: it seems to be set per content type your attaching the file to now, http://drupal.org/documentation/modules/file
<shauno> andylockran: I think you can just ls /tmp/.X11-unix/ to see what sockets have been created?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: ok, thank you.
<andylockran> shauno: that's got X0 in it
<davmor2> andylockran: do a dpkg -l | xserver-xorg ?
<shauno> so that'd just mean X is on :0 ? (or did I misunderstand the question)
<andylockran> lamech ~ # export DISPLAY=:0
<andylockran> lamech ~ # xeyes
<andylockran> No protocol specified
<andylockran> Error: Can't open display: :0
<andylockran> ^ should have pastebin'd
<andylockran> !pastebin | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran, please see my private message
<shauno> hm, I wonder if that's an xauth thing
<davmor2> andylockran: sorry misread your question
<andylockran> davmor2: no problemo
<andylockran> I'm just messing around anyways
<shauno> I gotta pop out to rescue my package from the post office :/  hopefully someone who's got X in front of them could make more sense of why you can't connect to it
<BigRedS> argh. anyone know off the top of their head where sudoers sticks its lock file?
<BigRedS> ah. /etc/sudoers.tmp
 * popey wonders if Azelphur has made his bitcoin millions
<Azelphur> popey: doing quite good so far, building more machines :)
<popey> how many machines you got now?
<Azelphur> 8
<Azelphur> I'm actually doing some trading right now
<Azelphur> I just made Â£112 as we was talking :)
<popey> :D
<Azelphur> and another 30 :p
<Azelphur> just filling the ridiculous price orders, Â£11.50+ per coin...shiny
<MartijnVdS> Thank you for funding the mafia
<Azelphur> yw mafia
<Azelphur> popey: that said I'm still negative profit atm, but hopefully not for long :)
<popey> hah, I'm ahead of you then ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> got a very nice new miner design coming, thinking I might sell some of those nice asus boards in here on the cheap :p
<popey> can't help but wonder whether you'd have been better off just buying 2K worth of coins
<Azelphur> I don't think so, this method provides a constant stream and gives me some physical merchandise should everything go south
<BigRedS> ctrl-q closing a window, is that decided by the WM or the app itself?
<BigRedS> I'd assumed WM, but the absence of consistency suggests otherwise..
<BigRedS> I assumed it was a key combination that just sent the same signal as clicking the 'x'
<ormiret> BigRedS: generally the app, but if you  want to you  could mkae the WM catch it and close the app.
<ormiret> I think alt-F4 is normally bound to that.
<Neoti01> does anyonje in here use askozia ?
<Neoti01> PBX for telephoney etc.
<popey> 26
<popey> BAH!
<BigRedS> ormiret: Ah, so alt-f4 is generally what the wm will use, and the app can choose to implement ctrl-q itself
<bigcalm> ctrl-w in nano does a search
<bigcalm> ctrl-w in firefox closes the tab
<bigcalm> Irritating
<BigRedS> that's one of the reasons you shouldn't be using nano
<bigcalm> :(
<BigRedS> <esc>:q is way more intuitive
<BigRedS> er, for quitting
<bigcalm> Heh, of course it is
<bigcalm> vim offers no on screen help unless you know how to bring it up
<BigRedS> yeah, I love that
<BigRedS> actually, don't you get told how to if you invoke it with no file?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> "Help poor children in Uganda!
<bigcalm> "
<bigcalm> Humm, not sure that should be on the welcome screen
<BigRedS> ach, nobody ever sees the welcome screen anyway
<bigcalm> So nobody will see the help
 * bigcalm shrugs
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> but it's that old philosophy that for most of the time you're using something you don't need to be told how to use it
<cocoa117>  in /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen file there is line multiboot       ${rel_xen_dirname}/${xen_basename} placeholder ${xen_args}
<cocoa117> <cocoa117> where xen_args="$6"
<cocoa117> <cocoa117> my question is how to set this xen_args?
<cocoa117> <cocoa117> in which program? update-grub?
<BigRedS> probably in a script in /etc/grub.d
<BigRedS> but I've managed to steer clear of doing anything much with gnome2 so far
<BigRedS> er, grub
<BigRedS> 2
<shauno> my ssd arrived \o/  and it's so light it feels fake
<BigRedS> haha
<gord> shauno, light *and* thin? ;)
<gord> my first one i half wondered if it was just empty inside
<popey> heh
<popey> I just ordered two for my desktop
<popey> one for windows, one for ubuntu
<shauno> not so much on thin .. it just feels like they left something important out of a 2.5" disk
<BigRedS> wasn't there some scam where they were just empty boxes with an SD card with a dishonest partition table taped to the inside?
<bigcalm> Yep
<popey> heh, yeah
<gord> popey, how big did you get the one for windows?
<popey> 120G
<popey> hope thats enough
<popey> also _bought_ a copy of windows 7
<popey> i feel sick now
<shauno> same size I just got.  should be enough for /
<gord> thats my worry with windows too, i only use windows for steam, would struggle to fit my games on less than 250
<popey> well, I _might_ leave a spinny disk in there just in case
<popey> or I could put one on the esata bus
<gord> ubuntu one just destroys any hope of free space on my ssd too :( every time i get a bit of space it greedily gobbles it up
<shauno> I'm keeping my hdd for bulky stuff.  music, movies, games, etc
<gord> or rather, people updating shares gobble it up
<popey> shauno: do you have it spin down?
 * popey pokes marxjohnson with uupc
<shauno> it should do.  I'll find out when I get home and get to play with this thing :)
<popey> ahh
<popey> should I encrypt my /home with ecryptfs on ssd?
<shauno> for now I'm just unpacking stuff so it'll actually fit in my bag.  they shipped a 2.5" disk in a box that wouldn't fit in my backpack
<jpds> Any encryption on a SSD just sounds like overhead.
<popey> yeah
<gord> i never bother encrypting my desktop, if someone has gotten access to my desktop drives, i have bigger problems
<shauno> I have an encrypted disk image I use for stuff that actually matters
<shauno> financials, scans of passports, etc.  given than it's a laptop, being paranoid seems sensible
<shauno> but whole-disk or home still seems like overkill
<shauno> thinking about it, I might see if I can set prey up to nuke it sometime
<gord> encrypting your home makes sense when you go around conferences with lots of other people from different companies ;)
<danfish> bah! Linode is sucking big time today :(
<brobostigon> :(
<Myrtti> UK YAY
<seeker> :D
<seeker> How long for?
<Myrtti> about 14 hours
<seeker> Not long then
 * brobostigon waves @ Myrtti 
<Myrtti> quick nap
<seeker> Airport -> dsample's -> airport?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Time for a new challenge & - http://www.linuxuk.org/2011/06/time-for-a-new-challenge/
<davmor2> Hit it ray parker jr
<Laney> LCDSS: GREAT
<joshuau> hi there
<Laney> ello
<marxjohnson> hi!
<joshuau> hi there... im in isle of man and i'm thinking of getting involved...
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: welcome :)
<joshuau> no kidding... how do i set up a local team??
<joshuau> :-D
<marxjohnson> joshuau: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: Start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<joshuau> k... ok
<joshuau> .. opening
<MartijnVdS> Also, borrow lots of ideas from ubuntu-uk and ubuntu-ie
<MartijnVdS> (they must have _something_ in common with IoM :)
<joshuau> ok good work on the idea so far...
<joshuau> seems to be abit of work though...
<joshuau> any basic pointers?
<MartijnVdS> Find a pub. Find some people. Talk about Ubuntu. :)
<marxjohnson> Find people on the isle of man who use ubuntu
<joshuau> i'll have a faq/fag while i waiit
<MartijnVdS> Is Canonical still registered there? :)
<joshuau> should i register a website? if so any ideas for a name? i already have trisquel.im!
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: Start small
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: just some informal pub meetings, arranged on the wiki
<joshuau> what wiki?
<MartijnVdS> when you have people, you can organise other things (install parties, launch parties, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> wiki.ubuntu.com
<joshuau> k
<MartijnVdS> and really.. read the Howto page
<joshuau> ok
<joshuau> i will
<joshuau> i remember canonical cos it was such a big file in the company registry... heavy stuff.
<MartijnVdS> they're behind Ubuntu
<joshuau> really? u dont say..
<joshuau> soz
<joshuau> whats your average user likely to want???
<marxjohnson> best to find some and ask them :-) What do you want?
<joshuau> ummm...k
<joshuau> i feel empowered:-[
<marxjohnson> seriously, work out what you want to get out of there being an IoM Loco, and start there
<joshuau> some ideas there would be nice
<marxjohnson> Well, I'm in the UK LoCo for support, and to meet interesting people
<marxjohnson> mainly the latter
<marxjohnson> So if I was starting a LoCo, they'd be my priorities
<joshuau> what like people who like .... your average coder with a beard etc.
<marxjohnson> That's me :-)
<MartijnVdS> No beard here
<joshuau> really... i use a bic or a gillette encouraged by vlc in the background
<joshuau> are there any youtube/other tubes that you'd recommend
<joshuau> i likwe twil
<joshuau> ?
<joshuau> ...
<marxjohnson> for what?
<joshuau> open source news
<marxjohnson> I usually get that from podcasts/twitter
<joshuau> mmk
<ali1234> slashdot :)
<joshuau> mmm...k
<ali1234> don't read the comments though
<ali1234> nearly as bad as the ones on youtube
<joshuau> slashdot... what do i type to get that?
<ali1234> srsly?
<marxjohnson>  /.
<joshuau> opening...trying anyway.
<joshuau> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot.com opening
<joshuau> got http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot on my tool bar now
<joshuau> there r 100's of comments.. any vids??
<joshuau> http://slashdot.org/tag/video   ... processing...
<joshuau> 1st one's Linux Video Tutorials From 1995... whats with that?????
<marxjohnson> the clocks are broken on some of their servers, they're stuck 15 years in the past :-)
<joshuau> wow.. the comments r still off the rictor scale.. is iy that good????
<Seeker`> joshuau: just out of interest, how old are you?
<joshuau> well i was born in the manx millennium if thats any help?
<Seeker`> 1979?
<joshuau> no shit
<MartijnVdS> 2000?
<joshuau> no
<joshuau> 21
<joshuau> q&a??
<Seeker`> !l | joshuau
<Seeker`> !language | joshuau
<lubotu3> joshuau: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<joshuau> k  soz
<joshuau> ignoance is biss...
<Seeker`> I wouldn't know :P
<joshuau> dr's do.
<Seeker`> what?
<joshuau> doctor do... silly.
<MartijnVdS> no, Doctor Who :)
<joshuau> oh dear .. not a fan.
<joshuau> i was waiting for the oh dear.. its all the uk needs
<joshuau> :P
<Seeker`> What on earth are you whittering about?
<joshuau> oh dear
<joshuau> i like : Radiohead Helps Fans Make Crowd-Sourced Live Show DVD
<joshuau> on slashdot that is
<joshuau> no sign of actal vid though
<joshuau> screw this i own this idea,,,........ im gonna blossom
<Seeker`> screw...what exactly?
<joshuau> a teddy from harrods
<joshuau> im torrenting the vid from radiohead
<Seeker`> which version are you downloading?
<joshuau> just maxed the torrent list to 300++
<Seeker`> why not use one of the official torrents?
<joshuau> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6054800
<Seeker`> just watch the 720p version on youtube :P
<joshuau> ok
<joshuau> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKHJkA8keg
<joshuau> it is 22.5 gb
<joshuau> dont get into gb
<Seeker`> that won't be
<Seeker`> the full blu-ray quality one will be
<Seeker`> youtube will have compressed it
<joshuau> k cool
<joshuau> i meant the torrent
<Seeker`> I know
<Seeker`> the youtube one wont be that big
<joshuau> well they seem abit drunk...good old yorke
<joshuau> time for a tea
<joshuau> i love the way u can skip through it using the comments
<matti> ;)
<matti> I just realised.
<MartijnVdS> abit? are those related to the alot? http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
<matti> My Ubuntu is 4 years old.
<MartijnVdS> matti: "your" Ubuntu?
<joshuau> aren't we getting alittle off topic????
<MartijnVdS> matti: you called your child Ubuntu!?
<matti> MartijnVdS: I mean, the one I installed on my old notebook ;]
<matti> MartijnVdS: Haha, no ;d
 * matti is child-less.
<matti> ;d
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: alittle, is that related to the alot? :)
<joshuau> well i like house of cards
<matti> 4 years...
<matti> ;
<matti> ;]
<joshuau> tourist trophy is buzzing here at the moment
<MartijnVdS> matti: it could have been a kid :P
<MartijnVdS> matti: for all the trouble it causes ;)
<matti> MartijnVdS: Hehe ;]
<MartijnVdS> + damage to social life..
 * MartijnVdS randomly points at http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/ again
<MartijnVdS> will take a few new ones over the weekend
<joshuau> sounds like he's singing about onecric now
<matti> MartijnVdS: What should I do, you reckon.
<matti> ;]
<MartijnVdS> matti: uhm. about what?
<matti> MartijnVdS: Old Ubuntu ;/
<MartijnVdS> matti: upgrade to a more recent version
<joshuau> Martijn vdS' photostream how that relevant??
<matti> MartijnVdS: But I feel like a father now, because of you!
<matti> ;d
<joshuau> did u get a receipt??
<MartijnVdS> matti: OK.. it's Friday night.. time enough to become one... :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: Hehe.
<matti> MartijnVdS: In my cast that would mean chopping my hand of and waiting to another me to grow ;]
<joshuau> really sucks forv content huh?
<MartijnVdS> matti: Your cast? You broke something?
<MartijnVdS> matti: Scars = instant win :)
<joshuau> whast u think???
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: hm?
<joshuau> dont get any big ideas...
<joshuau> rhead good at mo.
<MartijnVdS> you're not making any sense, sorry
<matti> MartijnVdS: Haha
<joshuau> i do find that people , like hear are evil people.
<joshuau> Does anyone actually used trisquel?
<joshuau> well its rice tonite!
<Seeker`> joshuau: isn't that a little off topic?
<joshuau> oh just found the mayonnaise to have in between chatting here.... lovely.
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: cleverbot, is that you?
<joshuau> no i'm another bot entirely
<Seeker`> ah, well bots get banned
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: harsh :) we love lubotu3
<joshuau> no its my sirname stupid
 * Seeker` eyes lubotu3 
<joshuau> who the heck is lubot3?
<MartijnVdS> joshuau: he's our pet robot
<MartijnVdS> !botsnack
<lubotu3> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<Seeker`> we;ve got him working on a phaser gun atm
<joshuau> really? i programmed myself.. and your answer won't fit on my website... ur stuffed.
<MartijnVdS> !txtspk
<MartijnVdS> !txt
<joshuau> well my dad does txts but i use skype
<joshuau> i like jpeg200 though0
<MartijnVdS> !topic
<lubotu3> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<joshuau> jpeg 2000 that is
<joshuau> ha your all stuffed now rnt u???
<Seeker`> joshuau: how so?
<joshuau> anyone read about dopof?
<Seeker`> joshuau: How exactly are we all "stuffed"?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: like teddy bears?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: we all want to hug him
<Seeker`> O.o
<joshuau> really.. i just accept the barclays bank
<joshuau> can i have a biger hug please
<Seeker`> joshuau: so what version of ubuntu do you use?
<joshuau> well let me see i down loaded it last week so i guess the latest
<joshuau> from ubuntu.com or whatever
<joshuau> but i use cutter choice more often
<joshuau> ~WINNING
<joshuau> #WINNING
<Seeker`> what?
<joshuau> ANYONE GET INTO THIS JUICY BIT:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Print_Order_format
<Seeker`> joshuau: please stop the trolling now, its getting boring
<joshuau> k rice is ready in 25mins cool it..
<popey> +1
<Seeker`> popez?
<joshuau> seriously anyone read my link?
<popey> joshuau: why are you here?
<joshuau> to have generational wealth
<joshuau> ?
<joshuau> man... you guys are weak.
<Seeker`> please can you explain what you mean by that joshuau ?
<dwatkins> What a strange trolling.
<michael__> Hi
<popey> hello
<michael__> Hi do you speak German or English?
<michael__> Well are you using Ubuntu?
<popey> I am
<popey> I only speak English, sorry.
<popey> !de
<lubotu3> In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
<michael__> Well sorry. Ich wusste das nicht
<michael__> nice. English
<michael__> i prefer it too
<michael__> well i am new here
<michael__> first time
<michael__> I trying get my head around KDE or Gnome
<michael__> what is better
<michael__> ?
<popey> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<popey> try them both and see for yourself
<michael__> as a Desktop environment
<michael__> tried it
<michael__> both nice
<popey> personally I prefer GNOME, others like KDE
<michael__> i use gnome shell
<michael__> at the moment
<brobostigon> i personally prefer gnome3/gnome-shell.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> a brother,
<michael__> used gnome for long time
<brobostigon> oops.
<michael__> they have unity updates
<michael__> did not like it
<michael__> how do you change the theme etc.
<michael__> nothing to see in system settings
<michael__> on ubuntu Gnome3/gnome-shell
<michael__> brother
<michael__> for another mother :)
<michael__> are there any girls in this chat room?
<popey> yes
<michael__> really
<popey> why wouldn't there be?
<michael__> does not look like it
<popey> Women use computers too
<brobostigon> michael__: ther eis a twaek tool in the gnome3-teams ppa, that wil let you change thoise things within gnome3/gnome-shell.
<michael__> just wondering
<michael__> do not think that they like to use computers
<michael__> woman do not think that they like to use computers
<michael__> woman or girls do not think that they like to use computers
<michael__> woman or girls. they do not like to use computers
<michael__> normally
<michael__> popey you are women?
<popey> You are making incorrect assumptions
<brobostigon> michael__: dat macht kein sinn, medchen nutzten auch computer, und et gibt keine, grenze hier in england.
<popey> brobostigon: english please
<brobostigon> popey: sorry.
<popey> michael__: women are people who use computers just the same as men do.
<michael__> what is application called to tweak the theme?
<michael__> brobostigen
<popey> michael__: which environment?
<michael__> gnome 3/ gnome-shell
<michael__> nice
<popey> pass, i dont use it. brobostigon does
<michael__> to know
<brobostigon> michael__: its is something like gnome tweak tool, something like that.
<michael__> they girls i know. they dont like too
<michael__> the girls which i know. they dont like too
<brianb__> anyone seen the preview of windows 8 and the touch screen - how will ubuntu look in a few years time ?
<popey> yeah, interesting video that windows 8 one
<brianb__> what do you think then will ubuntu/open source be able to offer an alternative to windows 8?
<popey> no idea
<popey> ask a designer
<brianb__> well guess dev work must start with intergration of touch displays and guesters
<shauno> if the goal 2-3 year is "to look/act like windows 8", linux is already dead :p
<dwatkins> michael__: that doesn't mean all girls are like that, though
 * popey does a global s/girls/women/ on this channel
<michael__> well you prove it
<popey> we dont need to prove it
<michael__> windows 8 is really nice looking
<popey> you're the one making duff assertions
<brianb__> but apple will be ahead if microsoft
<michael__> hope ubuntu becomes a advanced Unix system
<brianb__> and that will be on BSD
<michael__> Mac is nice
<michael__> is quite restricted i think
<michael__> but runs smooth
<michael__> Well log on Skype and show me how you use the computer
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Useful tip for GNU Screen to make it use a login shell - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/06/03/useful-tip-for-gnu-screen-to-make-it-use-a-login-shell/
<michael__> screenshare
<michael__> nice feature
 * popey wanders off to play portal 2
<michael__> BSD looks nice haven't tried it
<michael__> runs shitty in a virtualbox
<shauno> I'm having fun trying to figure out what goes on the sdd & what stays on the spindle now
<popey> hehe
<popey> shauno: on which os?
<shauno> osx
<popey> ah
<shauno> I just found steam hiding away eating up 50-odd Gb.  on a 120Gb disk, that's a rather unwelcome guest
<michael__> steam no doesn't do that
<popey> yeah, i need to clear out all my old games
<michael__> that would be a good solution
<shauno> it's just gonna be a case of figuring out which things benefit from the faster disk, and which don't
<michael__> well are you able play counter strike on it
<michael__> without trouble
<shauno> (and which get hit often enough that even if they don't benefit, should be on sdd so hdd can spin down)
<brianb__> anyone had problems installing ubuntu 10.4 10.10 onto a ssd drive?
<brianb__> i think there are some issues
<michael__> did any try use HD cable
<michael__> with ubuntu
<brianb__> yeah
<michael__> and ?
<brianb__> i tryed to instal both versions to a ssd hard drive
<michael__> I got screen resolution max 1200x...
<michael__> well to big for my screen
<michael__> and went over the edge
<brianb__> came to the conclusion theres a bug
<michael__> and yours?
<michael__> :( bug
<ali1234> i've used ubuntu with hdmi and dvi at HD+ resolutions
<michael__> and ?
<ali1234> works fine, but i have a nice monitor, not a TV
<michael__> a bug too ali
<brianb__> i could instal mandriva ok on a ssd hard disk but not ubuntu
<michael__> Well I have a TV
<michael__> monitor
<michael__> 23 inch
<michael__> well
<michael__> does ubuntu break Optical drives
<michael__> after a while
<brobostigon> no,
<michael__> my one broke
<brobostigon> michael__: by which failiure?
<michael__> any cool software that any would like to recommend
<ali1234> apport :)
<michael__> takes the disk reads and hangs
<michael__> apport?
<michael__> for what you use that?
<ali1234> debugging crashes
<brobostigon> michael__: apport is bug reporting software.
<michael__> oh OK
<michael__> any other programs girls
<ali1234> it does more than just reporting, actually, it's very useful tool for debugging also :)
<michael__> really i guess should install it and try it out
<brobostigon> ali1234: ah, ok, sorry,  that seems to be all i see of it,
<ali1234> brobostigon: it processes crash dumps too, and installs debug symbols and such, very handy
<michael__> have it already installed
<brobostigon> ali1234: sounds it, yes,
<michael__> noob
<brobostigon> michael__: yes,it is as standard in ubuntu.
<michael__> well did you try hand break
<michael__> is really good
<michael__> decoding and encrypting DVD etc...
<michael__> read about
<michael__> forgotten most of the stuff which i reas
<michael__> forgotten most of the stuff which i read
 * brobostigon likes blender for video editing, after various point in that direction,
<michael__> I think openshot has a bit nicer GUI
<ali1234> linux still lacks a decent motion graphics tool that can do things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO-aOdJLiw
<ali1234> sure, you *could* use blender... if you wanted to spend several years on it :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have had enought time, yes. and still done get it fully.
<ali1234> brobostigon: even if you know all blender UI, it simply lacks the tools you'd need to make that video
<brobostigon> ali1234: but i meant, fo that basic editing, noothingmore.
<ali1234> yes, there's plenty of video editors for linux
<ali1234> motion graphics however is a lot more complex... think of it as photoshop but with videos
<brobostigon> interesting.
<michael_UK> really good to know that
<michael_UK> motion graphics
<michael_UK> cool
<michael_UK> I watched the priest
<michael_UK> did any one else watch it
<michael_UK> ?
<michael_UK> girls huehue
<shauno> seems there's a downside to this weather.  I believe this headache is caffiene withdrawl, from drinking water all day :(
<hamitron> shauno: why not drink coffee?
<shauno> I am now :)
<hamitron> good lad :)
<Laney> wow
<Laney> an incredible amount of sirens going past
<Laney> must have been 10 in the last couple of minutes
<chris99> past where?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-04
<Laney> my place in nottingham
<ali1234> argh zombies
<ali1234> zombies, in my computer?
<ali1234> oh wait, it;s cos I had gdb attached still
<shauno> this is pretty nifty.  takes about 15 seconds to reboot  (measured from clicking reboot, to my irc client being usable again)
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> helloa ll
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm just about to head off to 't north
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going to see some friends who live near Wetherby
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloody long way that is.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ttfn
<popey> ttfn
<danfish> don't forget the passport, warewolf repellant and whippet treats ;)
<MartijnVdS> scary fast
<MooDoo> looks like everyone is either still in bed or out in the sun :)
<MartijnVdS> playing with my xoom.. does that count? :-)
<popey> installing windows 7 â¹
<MooDoo> popey: standard?
<popey> home premium
<MooDoo> cool
<popey> so painfully slow to install
<MooDoo> yup and then there are upates after.....but once it's fully installed it's ok
<popey> should be quick once installed onto ssd
 * popey goes to mow the lawn whilst that runs
<popey> hello BakedBean
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Gooooooood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<jacobw>  good morning :)
<brobostigon> morning jacobw :)
<jacobw> 'tis sunny and warm
<jacobw> unusual for these isles
<brobostigon> windy*
 * jacobw â gym
<brobostigon> hve fun jacobw
<Seeker`> Has anyone used a netgear N300 Wireless USB adaptor with ubuntu successfully?
<gord> reasons why password dialogs should always steal 100% focus #1431 - you type your password in to an irc channel instead of steam...
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have a specific case wherein I have two sources.list one is global and other is local
<kaushal> so global is denied when i am in office and allowed once i am out of office
<kaushal> so is there a way to switch it automatically ?
<kaushal> meaning once in office point to local and out of office point to global
<kaushal> is that possible ?
<dwatkins> kaushal: you might be able to have a service script run at boot-time to ascertain which location you are at based on IP range of eth0 or wlan0, but I wonder if it might be possible to do it another way, by only having one file.
<dwatkins> jacobw: it's windy and overcast but bright in Edinburgh today
<kaushal> dwatkins: any example ?
<dwatkins> kaushal: I wonder if it might be possible to add entries to /etc/hosts to allow the same file to be used - what is different about the two files, exactly?
<kaushal> dwatkins: sure
<kaushal> let me pastebin it
<dwatkins> cool, I'm interested to see
 * dwatkins rediscovers the fun that it colours in irssi and GNU Screen
<gord> don't entries in sources.list prefer the first entires then the second? so you could happly have both entiered in and it should work fine?
<kaushal> dwatkins: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/618288/
<dwatkins> gord: I considered that, but wouldn't that mean it would have to time-out with the DNS entries?
<kaushal> the last three lines are local
<dwatkins> kaushal: what happens when you try to look-up or access the external hosts from inside the office network?
<gord> dwatkins, not really. i mean you'll just get a does not exist
<dwatkins> ah I see what you mean, gord
<kaushal> it says blocked
<dwatkins> gord: for me, when I try to look up dyndns.org addresses from work, I get 127.0.0.2 back from the DNS server
<dwatkins> kaushal: so as gord suggests, you could use that file in theory, right?
<gord> interesting. but even then apt will just try and get from 127.0.0.2 and fail quickly
<kaushal> gord: so put local and global in the same sources.list ?
<gord> it'll only take ages to time out if your networking doesn't respond to port connection requests. a lot of crappy routers do that in a terrible attempt at "hiding"
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> it actually sucks
<gord> kaushal, pretty much
<kaushal> instead just point to local when i am in office
<kaushal> its clean
<kaushal> gord: is that doable ?
<gord> kaushal, not sure what your asking
<dwatkins> kaushal: give it a try and see?
<kaushal> dwatkins: I have tried that already but it sucks
<kaushal> dwatkins: so two things here
<kaushal> once in office point to local and then get automatically updated
<kaushal> and out of office point to global and then get automatically updated
<kaushal> is it tricky ?
<kaushal> am i asking more ?
<dwatkins> What are you asking, kaushal?
<gord> you could just have a home.list and office.lst in /etc/apt/sources.list.d and switch them out on detecting where you are, but ehhh sounds hacky to me
<kaushal> gord: exactly
<kaushal> gord: possible right ?
<kaushal> dwatkins: Am i not clear ?
<gord> theoretically, but its so hacky
<kaushal> gord: Any example ?
<gord> nope
<kaushal> gord: np
<kaushal> I am sure someone might have thought of it already
<kaushal> isnt it ?
<dwatkins> kaushal: I see what you mean, it's probably just a case of copying the skeleton /etc/init.d/ script and modifying it to test what IP address range you're in and copy the relevant file.
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> dwatkins: perfect
<kaushal> dwatkins: Any working skeleton example :)
<dwatkins> kaushal: there are plenty in /etc/init.d/ ;)
<dwatkins> Sorry, I can't write it for you, I have to go offline for a bit, but will be back and smelling better shortly.
<kaushal> dwatkins: np
<kaushal> dwatkins: Thanks
<dwatkins> welcome :) ciao kaushal, gord et al
<Adriannom> "Note that the quality of the re-sampling depends on the setting of the pitch behaviour. Having key lock disabled (âvinyl emulationâ in 1.8.x and below) will use linear interpolation, which doesn't sound very good (you will notice graininess and increased noise, especially obvious on high, long notes)." <--- what's key lock?
<Adriannom> nevermind
<daubers> Afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<brobostigon> afternoonings daubers
 * daubers starts sorting photos
<daubers> My camera still smells of bees
<MartijnVdS> ooh, been doing some hive shots?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yes! At River Cottage too :)
<daubers> Was very excited. First time I've actually handled bees
<MartijnVdS> River Cottage?
<daubers> Hugh Fernley Wittingstalls (sp?) place
<daubers> From the telle
 * MartijnVdS found the website
<penguin42> daubers: erm what do bees smell like?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yummy honey
<daubers> penguin42: A mix of honey, wax and peropolis
 * penguin42 tries to avoid getting close enough to bees to smell them
<daubers> penguin42: and in a roundabout kinda way.... my camera
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I've started going to this place for pictures: http://archeon.nl/engels/home.html
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (it's just around the corner)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: That looks quite cool :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: check my flickr stream for examples :)
<MartijnVdS> (for others: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157624906925557/ )
<daubers> Hmmm... It's really hard getting pictures focused properly through a veil
<daubers> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5796247497/in/photostream
<dwatkins> impressivel, daubers
<dwatkins> also, impressive.
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I've turned to Live View for that
<MartijnVdS> daubers: and manual focus :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Can't autofocus with that lens :) It's broked
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I can autofocus with mine, but I rarely do
<daubers> Need to email my local beekeeping club now
<daubers> Definatley got the bug
<MartijnVdS> You could title that photo "None of your beeswax" ;)
<daubers> heh :)
<theplague> hello all!
<theplague> Can anyone help me restore grub?  I seem to have killed it upgrading to 11.04 from the update manager
<brobostigon> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<brobostigon> theplague: instructions on the restoregrub opage mentioned there.
<theplague> thanks brobostigon - how would I know if I have grub or grub2?
<brobostigon> theplague: as it says, if youhave after 9.10, grub2 is becomes standard.
<theplague> thanks - just reading through it all now though not sure if this will help.  I seem to have lost any kind of boot menu after upgrading to 11.04 - which I read is quite common.  Only problem is that a lot of the fixes already posted dont seem to be working!
<SuprEngr> brobostigon, live cd to "install grub" [/dev/sda] ???  any easier for theplague
<SuprEngr> [real cmd deliberately not quoted - in case ;)
<brobostigon> SuprEngr: that page, eplains it perfectly, andeasyto understand,
<SuprEngr> cool
<theplague> its lost me already sorry.
<theplague> following the steps, the guide says.... Verify if your partition is correct.
<theplague> mount | tail -1
<theplague> You should see output similar to this:
<theplague> /dev/sda2 on /media/0d104aff-ec8c-44c8-b811-92b993823444 type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=devkit)
<brobostigon> theplague: i am not the man to ask, i haent had to do it personally.
<theplague> I dont see anything like that
<theplague> No worries brobostigon
<brobostigon> theplague: if you try "sudo fdisk -l" do you see.
<SuprEngr> ... forgot to say o/ "hi peeps" been away for a while - apologies for absence.
<penguin42> theplague: You say you broke it upgrading; what were you upgrading from/to and how is it broken?
<Myrtti> argh, jetlag is hitting hard
<Myrtti> must - not - fall - asleep
<Core_UK> Guys, I am trying to use xchat for gnome to auto log in to my fav irc channels. However because many freenode channels require me to be logged in and that takes a moment it wont join them
<Myrtti> how do you currently log in? with a server password?
<Myrtti> or a autorun command?
<Core_UK> Myrtti, yeah
<michael__> hi
<kirrus> hi
<michael__> nice
<michael__> that you talk to me
<kirrus> :)
<michael__> well so were you from
<michael__> ?
<michael__> Europe
<michael__> or America
<michael__> or Afrika
<michael__> etc.
<michael__>  I live in europe kirrus
<Core_UK> Can anyone help me set up xchat? To auto join servers/channels
<michael__> Klick IRC
<michael__> and set it up
<Core_UK> i need help with the setting up
<kirrus> Core_UK: in the server listing, edit the freenode server
<kirrus> that'll bring up a window in which you can setup auto-login, and channel auto-joins
<Core_UK> I tried, it joins channels before I can get identified
<Core_UK> ill try again
<kirrus> Core_UK: that's not a problem - you just have to be indentified to keep your nick, not to use it
<Core_UK> But many channels require me to be identified
<Core_UK> and so most channels I have to join manually after identify has gone through (i.e. #python)
<kirrus> I'm not sure then.. I've not used XChat in anger for a while
 * kirrus afk ... good luck!
<Core_UK> what do you use? :P
<penguin42> pidgin seems to manage it normally - although occasionally doesn't; I do use xchat on a couple of channels but can't remember if either require id
<Core_UK> So anyone here from Blackpool? :D
<penguin42> Manchester here
<Core_UK> not to far :)
<penguin42> from your DNS I'd guessted you were Manchester as well
<Core_UK> :)
<Core_UK> I am in Blackpool, manchester is pobably the main hub or something
 * penguin42 fails to guess what the bng is for
<TOSDroid> Evening all
<matti> Folks.
<matti> What do you do for backup?
 * penguin42 just rsync's stuff onto a crypted USB stick
<matti> I found this Deja Dup thing.
<matti> I wonder...
<penguin42> rsync is good for copying onto pretty much any disc like thing
<popey> matti: i use rsnapshot to a server at home
<popey> i use deja-dup for my mums computer
<matti> popey, penguin42 :)
<matti> My notebook HDD is falling apart.
<popey> â¹
<matti> So I decided to backup.
<matti> Just to discover that my backup HDD died ;]
<matti> I was rescued by backup-of-backup.
<matti> ;]
<matti> I have to admit that Apple's Time Machine is convenient.
<matti> I wish we could have something like that for Ubuntu ;]
<popey> agree
<popey> time machine is awesome in many ways
<matti> I like its transparency.
<popey> i recently used it to enable me to upgrade the hard disk in my laptop. pulled out old one, put in new one, chucked in osx dvd, plugged in time machine device, easy past
<popey> *peasy
<popey> back to where I was before I had swapped the disks in no time
<matti> Indeed, TM is amazing.
<gord> huh, just found out this laptop is sandybridge based, no one the intel driver sucks
 * popey has just added two SSDs to his desktop, put windows 7 (GameOS) on one, Ubuntu going on the other
<gord> no wonder even
<penguin42> gord: Stinks as for speed or stability?
<gord> both
<gord> actually i upgraded the driver and the stability is fixed, but still get graphical glitches like crazy
<penguin42> gord: I've had problems with the Intel driver in Natty compared to Maverick; there seems to be a bug quite a few people are hitting
<penguin42> (but I'm on an older 945GM)
<popey> my laptop has 945GM
<popey> works a treat
<gord> intel just built a new mode for sandybridge devices, supposed to be way quicker, O should be fun once it gets stable
<gord> popey, just wondering, much of a boot speed increase with windows on the ssd? takes my copy of windows forever to boot up
<popey> i have no reference
<popey> clean install of win7 on ssd
<popey> my previous install was crusty xp from yore
<popey> on hdd
<popey> happy time it though
<avro> I'm running natty on my eeepc-1000h any specific tweaks or tips people can offer? unity 2d is already my default but this isn't the best experience I've had with ubuntu on my netbook. Helping hand anyone?
<gord> how so? is the interface slow?
<avro> gord: yer generally it's a slow interface, coupled with clutter to the toolbar topright. the wireless tends to drop a lot [not a problem previously - have considered compiling compat, but always get daft error module in use errors on wlunload so not gone that far yet]. I have found quite a few bugs, when I unplug my charger the laptop will hang, login consistently asks me for a keyring password despite me telling it not to
<avro> o in the settings..etc etc. Plus others that I experience here and there. WOW sorry for the essay.
<gord> sounds like you have a few deep seated bugs, i would stay on maverick if i were you until they get sorted out
<avro> yer, I'm considering the downgrade, either that or a really tailored netbook specific distro based on deb, puppy or crunchbang look good.
<avro> but aren't particularly netbook specific (any more - crunchbang used to have eeepc specific release but that's gone byebye
<penguin42> avro: I've had various wifi problems on an eeepc 1001ha
<avro> penguin42: like what?
<penguin42> avro: A couple of versions hang on shutdown or when disabling wifi
<penguin42> I can't actually remember which versions do that - but I think it's most
<avro> hmmm yer, i think that is a known bug.
<penguin42> yeh
<avro> what you running at the moment
 * penguin42 can't actually remember - I think it#s 10.04 on there - haven't got the netbook on at the moment
<avro> aha, fair enough. Well sounds more likely to be a kernel issue if it's causing hangs probably fixed by now.
<penguin42> I don't think it is actually, but I can't remember what the last one I tried were - certainly tried Mavrick on it, not sure if I tried Natty yet
<avro> any netbook specific distros that you could recommend me for the time being?
<mikesz> Hello all - anyone know how to change the permissions on a floppy drive so I can write files to it?  At present, ive mounted it, I can see a disk with 1.4mb free but whenever I try to drag a file onto it, it says I dont have permission??  (Im using the 10.04 live CD by the way)
<mikesz> Anyone?
<brobostigon> df -h -T   ,to see the device name, and then chmod rw permissions onthat device. maybe.
<mikesz> cheers - will give it a go
<brobostigon> mikesz: research the correct parameters for chmod, i cant remember them,
<mikesz> ok, this is going to sound really dim but here goes - now that I know my floppy drive is /dev/fd0 how do I 'get' to it?
<AlanBell> you need to mount the filesystem the disk contains
<mikesz> cd /dev/fd0 returned : ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ cd /dev/fd0
<mikesz> bash: cd: /dev/fd0: Not a directory
<mikesz> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$
<AlanBell> so sudo mkdir /mnt/floppy
<penguin42> mikesz: It needs mounting, I suspect the GUIs haven't been tested with machines with floppies in it
<penguin42> for a while
<AlanBell> sudo mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
<mikesz> ah...ok, let me give that a whirl....
<AlanBell> cd /mnt/floppy
<AlanBell> ls -l
<AlanBell> win \o/
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'd hope that udisks would do it
<AlanBell> yeah, it should magically happen really shouldn't it
<mikesz> (im running the live CD so perhaps why its not as straight forward?)
 * penguin42 will have to try it on a machine with a floppy
<penguin42> mikesz: My guess is the problem is no one has tried it for a long time!
<mikesz> ok - well heres a question then - the whole reason im doing this is becuase ive killed my system installing 11.04 so Im trying to put a version of superGrubDisk onto a floppy so I can boot!  http://www.bootproblems.com/super-grub2-disk/
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> mikesz: In that case you don't want to do the mount that Alan suggested
<penguin42> mikesz: Do you have a floppy image file (something under 1.44MB ?)
<mikesz> ah...done it all now
<mikesz> yeah the download from that link gives you a library of files at about 1.4mb
<mikesz> so been trying to copy them onto a floppy disk
<penguin42> ah you don't want to copy those
<penguin42> mikesz: To copy those to a floppy you'll do something like sudo dd if=thenameoftheimagefile of=/dev/fd0 bs=512
<mikesz> how come?
<mikesz> I extracted them to a memory stick and thought i could just copy them over
<AlanBell> those are complete images including boot sector and file allocation table
<mikesz> once i had the image file, I just selected the option to 'extract here' from my memory stick and found what looked to be the right directory of files
<AlanBell> not files that you want to put inside a filesystem
<mikesz> ok.  Im confused now.
<penguin42> mikesz: Just issue that magical command I gave
<penguin42> mikesz: With the right floppy in :-)
<penguin42> mikesz: Having said that, if you're having trouble doing this my guess is that you are going to struggle with supergrub
<penguin42> mikesz: When you say that 11.04 upgrade caused problems, what exactly went wrong
<mikesz> Ive been having this all day.  I was on 10.10, though in the update manager it did its usual 'there is a newer version available' so I let it do the upgrade
<mikesz> I know you're supposed to do it from a CD but its worked in the passed for me so I just let it do it
<mikesz> Now, I cant boot my machine
<penguin42> no, you did the right thing - the update manager should work
<penguin42> mikesz: OK, when you say you can't boot it exactly what happens?
<gord> i can't help with this issue, just want to mention that people asking for help with floppies in 2011 makes me smile :)
<mikesz> I did have windows XP dual booting with 10.10.  Now, I just get a message on my monitor saying "out of range"
<penguin42> mikesz: OK, what's the very last thing you see before that out of range?
<mikesz> though it goes through normal POST and bios beep first
<mikesz> right where the Grub menu used to come up, it now says "out of range"
<penguin42> mikesz: OK, have you tried holding left shift down when the grub menu should come up ?
<mikesz> yep
<mikesz> and the down arrow key
<mikesz> and ive tried tapping shift as well
<penguin42> mikesz: OK, on your graphics card are there multiple outputs?
<mikesz> happy to give it another go though!
<mikesz> there are yes.  there are two outputs on the graphics card itself (the larger white ones with more pin holes - are they HDMI?)
<mikesz> the monitor cable has to go through a little adapter anyway when connecting to the graphics card
<penguin42> mikesz: I'm just wondering if it's decided to show the display on the other output
<mikesz> they're both the same and ive never had to move it before?
<mikesz> can give it a go though?
<penguin42> mikesz: Well there's obviously a bug somewhere
<penguin42> mikesz: So it's worth trying
<mikesz> Can I use the 10.04 live CD that I am using at the moment to just reinstall ubuntu and everything will be back to normal?
<mikesz> (il try this thing though in a minute)
<penguin42> mikesz: Yes a reinstall should work
<mikesz> ok - be back in 5 mins - will try this port swap....
<DJones> Sounds like mikesz has to use a dvi adapter for his graphics
<mikesz> back again -no joy sorry
<mikesz> penguin43 - tried changing the lead over to the other port, no difference.  Also tried left shift tapping, holding down, even through in a few colourful words
<mikesz> So if I now install from the live CD (considering its a previous version) will it put everything back the way it was and re-unite me with my grub menu and windows xp?
<mikesz> is there a safe way of removing the partition that I currently have 11.04 installed into without messing up the partition with Windows XP on it?
<mikesz> I seem to have a few partitions on here at the moment
<mikesz> or, better put, can I just delete all the partitions gparted will let me delete and then install 10.04 into the largest free space?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-05
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] New Lernid Release: Please Test - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/05/new-lernid-release-please-test/
 * MartijnVdS upgrades to oneiric.. let the breakage begin :)
<MartijnVdS> yay 1995 theme
<MooDoo> hello all
<hcfd> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
 * MartijnVdS is on a bug reporting spree
<MartijnVdS> (mostly hardware related)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<reaper4334> I have a computer that I don't want to upgrade to 11.04 on, is it worth downgrading from 10.10 to 10.04 because 10.04 has LTS?
<brobostigon> reaper4334: in all truth, idont think it is possible  to downgrade a whole system successfully, without manually downgrading each individual package, avoiding breakage atthe same time.
<reaper4334> brobostigon: I probably would back everything up and reinstall the older version completely if that's what I end up needing to do
<brobostigon> reaper4334: yes, simply installing lts, might be easier. however tring to downgrade the whole systm, could be an interesting experience.
<reaper4334> brobostigon: so is it worth installing lts version instead then? or would it not really make a difference?
<brobostigon> reaper4334: depends on the application you will be using it for, if you want a server, iwould suggest lts,however, if its for a desktop, and natty works, iwould probebly stick, if you are happy with it.
<reaper4334> brobostigon: Natty didn't work on it, so I'm using 10.10 at the moment
<stgraber> reaper4334: 10.10 will be supported until 12.04 which will be the next LTS. So if 10.10 works for you and you plan on upgrading before/at the next LTS, then it should be fine. Otherwise you can reinstall on 10.04 and have a supported desktop till 13.04
<brobostigon> reaper4334: ok, i would probebly stick there then. and when oneiric becomes more stable, test that on live usb.
<stgraber> reaper4334: also, note that you won't be able to upgrade directly from 10.10 to 11.10. You'll need to reinstall or do a first upgrade to 11.04, then to 11.10.
<reaper4334> stgraber: okay, I'll try to keep that in mind
<reaper4334> stgraber, brobostigon: thanks both of you, I'll keep 10.10 for now :)
<brobostigon> reaper4334: you're welcome.:)
 * brobostigon tries out oneiric on live usb.
<brobostigon> idea on a dvb-t usb adaptor, that works with linux?
<Laney> stgraber in -uk?!?!?!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] June Project Underway - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/06/05/june-project-underway/
<masterm1nd> server irc.freenode.net
<gord> so... my weather indicator is currently telling me that the weather is "nighttime"
<gord> that seems... wrong
<dwatkins> gord: for you perhaps...
<penguin42> wrong location?
<gord> its got my location just fine
<gord> maybe its talking about the crewe thats on mars
<dwatkins> or somewhere in Japan...
<gord> there is no where in japan called crewe ;)
<dwatkins> I know, I was being silly. I guess it must think you're in California.
<penguin42> gord: The one in Virginia?
<penguin42> (looks unlikely - although bizarrely it is just next to Chester)
<gord> nope, its all set correctly
<gord> it'll figure itself out soon i'm sure
<dwatkins> Has it actually updated / had network access since the sun rose?
<gord> its only had network access since the sun rose
<penguin42> it's odd looking at AMerican maps and finding Dorset near Chester and Crewe
<shauno> americans 'borrowing' names is fun.  when I lived in the states, I was near roscommon county.  now I live in ireland, I'm right next to roscommon county.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Removing ASCII codes from filenames - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/06/05/removing-ascii-codes-from-filenames/
<dwatkins> Wow, it really is quiet here today - my blog post is the last thing said in over an hour ;)
<penguin42> dwatkins: Lots of channels seem to be really quiet today - I guess there is still good weather in some of the country
<hamitron> it isn't where you are?
<penguin42> no, it was really nice yesterday but it's about 5-6c cooler than yesterday - 15c and rather grey
<reaper4334> yeah same here
<hamitron> better weather to do stuff though
<hamitron> has been a little too hot
<hamitron> :/
<reaper4334> yeah, I'm one of those sad-sounding types that prefers the weather that everybody else calls miserable
<hamitron> I've got a lot done today
<hamitron> so kinda pleased :)
<hamitron> a little windy to burn some of the waste though
<ali1234> can anyone recommend an audio player that supports multimedia keys and repeating a single track on a loop, and doesn't include an audio file database?
<Azelphur> ali1234: audacious maybe?
<ali1234> maybe?
<Azelphur> it has playlist support but I don't think there's a database
<Azelphur> and it has multimedia key support
<ali1234> well that's 2 out of 3
<Azelphur> everything has loop support
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> totem doesn't
<ali1234> potamus doesn't
<ali1234> gxmms2 doesn't
<ali1234> i could go on...
<Azelphur> well that's because totem sucks, and I've never even heard of potamus lol
<ali1234> audacious does not support multimedia keys
<Azelphur> ali1234: it does, you need to enable the plugin for it
<Azelphur> it ships with the plugin but it's disabled by default
<ali1234> got it, thanks
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> repeat single works too, nice
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you ever get anywhere fixing up lg4l?
<ali1234> oh nice, audacious just crashed
<ali1234> no, i've been kind of busy
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I'll probably take a crack at getting it going in it's current state, I want the macro keys :3
<ali1234> those other guys made some patches
<Azelphur> oh awesome, got the ball rolling then :)
<Azelphur> besides actually installing it, I should be able to get macro keys going now
 * SuprEngr has just finished having a 'look-see' at Fedora15/Gnome3, can see the attraction, applauds the devs for it but: "my friend Ubuntu" stays!
<Laney> Dear #ubuntu-uk, I have heard you should pre-cook dried lasagne sheets. Is this information accurate? Regards, Iain
<TheOpenSourcerer> Laney: It depends on 2 things mainly.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1. If it says you should pre-cook on the packet
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2. If your sauces are quite dry.
<Laney> it says it is not necessary but you can if you want
<TheOpenSourcerer> IME I make the sauces quite "wet" and then the sheets will cook just fine from sry.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/sry/dry
<Laney> and I wouldn't say they are massively dry
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<Laney> would like to avoid cross-layer leakage though
<Laney> think I will leave dry then, thanks for the tip
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you do pre-cook  them they are difficult to handle and stick together
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> How was your break?
<AlanBell> great weather
<brobostigon> 0 */3 * * * root /usr/lib/cgi-bin/awstats.pl -config=ptaylor.vps.bitfolk.com -update
<AlanBell> hot and windy
<AlanBell> slightly too windy to fly a kite even, I broke a string it was that strong
<brobostigon> ok, does that entry in crontab, say, it will run at 3am?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have just driven 500miles this weekend. We went to see some friends near Wetherby - just got back about an hour ago.
<Laney> every 3 hours
<brobostigon> Laney: i wasnt far off, thank you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Glad you had good weather AlanBell - I am going to have a beer and chill in front of the telly. Will talk tomorrow morning.
<daubers> AlanBell: Bees! http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5796247497/in/photostream
<MartijnVdS> daubers: BEEEEES
<MartijnVdS> uh oh.. a Lugradio Reunion one-off
<AlanBell> oooooh daubers that looks fun
<AlanBell> queen is halfway up, right of centre
<daubers> The one with the spot on her back :)
<AlanBell> yup
<daubers> Was masses of fun. Joining the local beekeeping association now
<shauno> MartijnVdS where?!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Jono's twitter
<dutchie> http://twitter.com/#!/jonobacon/status/77454058503421953
 * shauno blows the dust off his passport
<MartijnVdS> shauno: lugradio, not lr live
<MartijnVdS> (that's how I read it, at least)
<shauno> gah
<Laney> bet it's different in character now
<MartijnVdS> Laney: the entire interweb has changed a bit, yes :)
<MartijnVdS> Laney: and the people
<webpigeon> dutchie++
<dutchie> yay
<dutchie> (what did i do?)
<webpigeon> dutchie: post a link to the best news of the year?
<dutchie> ah, cool :)
<webpigeon> :)
<popey> Laney: i never pre-cook mine
<Laney> i hadn't heard of such
<Laney> but then some chef said to do it on the internet
<popey> i just make sure they're in long enough to be al-dente
<popey> -typo
<popey> yeah, i have heard people do it, but i dont
<Laney> do you break bits off to cover up the gaps?
<Laney> is that me being ocd?
<popey> yes
<popey> yes
<Laney> (
<popey> i have round cornered dishes
<popey> you wont get me with that
<Laney> same
<popey> so i nip off the corners
<popey> but i dont worry about cross-level leakage
<popey> its going to cross when I put it on my gaping maw anyway
<dutchie> )
<frank_> hi
<popey> hello
<frank_> does anyone know a good solution how to backup a raid5 volume to several external hds ... and keep these hds up to date on a say weekly basis?
<frank_> problem is the data volume wont fit on a single hard disk
<popey> how big is the raid volume?
<frank_> 4 tb
<frank_> i dont change that many files on the raid ... so a kind of rsync option to several external hds would be nice ... and only syncing/copying the deltas ...
<frank_> I use rsnapshot for backup purposes .. but i dont know how to span that over several volumes ...
<dutchie> rsnapshot does hardlinking, is that not enough?
<dutchie> so that is nearly the deltas
<shauno> hardlinking doesn't work well across volumes like that
<dutchie> no, good point
<frank_> dutchie: rsnapshot is fine ... for making a backup that fits on a single external hd ... but how should i handle a backup of 4tb, that needs at least another 2 hds to be backed up?
<dutchie> raid them together too?
<dutchie> or something
<frank_> dutchie: but then i need them online and connected all the time
<shauno> was about to say that.  sticking the backup disks on another raid controller seems like the sanest way out
<frank_> shauno: that would mean I have effectively twice the size running and online all the time ...
<frank_> this is what i try to avoid ...
<frank_> or is there a way to set an archive bit on an ext4 FS?
<shauno> it doesn't have to be online 24x7.  something like those Â£200 hp microservers that were floating around would work too
<frank_> That way I could filter through the files and only backup changed/new files
<shauno> bring it up before you go home each friday, rsync & shutdown
<frank_> shauno : so 4 drives can be connected ...
<frank_> shauno: do you know any other solution? e.g. is it possible to span a differential backup over several HDs? I would like to avoid buying additional servers (even inexpensive ones) as I would need to maintain them.
<shauno> that's how I would do it.  not saying it's the best way.  but that way I could script the entire task, instead of having someone swapping disks like they're tapes.  you need a 4tb backup volume.  make a 4tb backup volume
<frank_> easiest would be to have an external esata drive and rsync the deltas on there
<frank_> shauno: is there a backup solution where i could make an incremental backup and treat HDs like tapes?
<shauno> I'd assume so, but I don't know any offhand :/
<frank_> shauno: thanks anyway. appreciate the food for thought ... will consider such a microserver .. i like the backups where I dont need to think ...
<shauno> people do it with tapes, with CDs, even with floppies .. so there has to be a way to span volumes
<frank_> shauno: thats what I thought too. but did not find very useful results while googling ... My idea was: a raid 5 can sustain a single failure, the most important files are rsynced on other machines, so no prob. but the huge Windows image files lying on the raid are only lying on the raid currently and this is what I would like to change ... and therefore, I came up with using external HDs ... but I dont want a folder structure on my raid
<frank_>  that corresponds with my external HDs ... that would be confusing for the users ...
<frank_> thanks for the help ... will have a good nights sleep thinking about possible solutions ...
<frank_> cya
<DeathSling> Anyone here familiar with libvirt?
<luke__> u
<ali1234> no u
<hamitron> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-28
<rafaviana> hello, good night!
<rafaviana> I'm currently trying to get my ubuntu to recognize my notebook's Disk reader/writer drive. But I'm out of luck
<rafaviana> I'll be glad if someone can give me some tips
<directhex> rafaviana: you mean a burner? what have you tried?
<rafaviana> hey, I have tried looking for drivers
<rafaviana> I'm currently on a Vostro 33000
<rafaviana> oops
<rafaviana> 3300
<rafaviana> Let me get the drive model
<rafaviana> TSSTcorp DVD+-RW TS-U633F
<rafaviana> When I put in disks, I was hoping they would be read out of the box
<rafaviana> It's an ubuntu 12.04 installation
<rafaviana> directhex: yes, it's a burner
<directhex> rafaviana: audio discs, or data discs?
<rafaviana> tried both
<rafaviana> dvd movies, audio disks and data disks
<directhex> rafaviana: if you go into nautilus (the home folder icon on unity), you don't see the disc listed on the left next to your hard drive, when you've inserted it?
<rafaviana> the drive pops open when I push the button, and the disk even spins
<rafaviana> No, it doesn't show up there
<rafaviana> let me give you more details
<rafaviana> This ubuntu is currently running off of an external HD, and it was installed into this HD from another PC
<rafaviana> I'm afraid the driver for the burner may have not been installed or something
<directhex> it's not a driver issue.
<rafaviana> ok
<rafaviana> directhex: do you have a suggestion for what I should do next?
<directhex> i'm trying to think of suggestions which are appropriate for your level of experience
<rafaviana> alright
<rafaviana> I've fiddled a bit with terminal commands
<directhex> can you try "sudo mount /dev/sr0 /mnt" with a data disc (i.e. not an audio cd) in the drive?
<rafaviana> alright
<rafaviana> directhex: it says the device /dev/sr0 doesn't exist
<directhex> hmph
<directhex> and scd0 ?
<rafaviana> ok, hold on
<rafaviana> directhex: same
<directhex> hm
<directhex> is your cd drive bay removable? can you remove & reconnect?
<rafaviana> no, it's integrated
<directhex> i wonder if it's powered.
<rafaviana> I guess it is, because it spins the disk
<rafaviana> and it opens after I push the button
<directhex> i'm going to go to bed now.
<rafaviana> directhex: alright man, thanks for the help
<rafaviana> directhex: I'll keep trying here
<rafaviana> directhex: good night!
<directhex> rafaviana: you know you won't get many replies at 2am, right?
<rafaviana> yea, I'm in a different time zone hehe
<rafaviana> anyhow, thanks for the effort
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<DJones> Morning all
<kvarley> I know it's a security risk
<kvarley> But what's the easiest way to make it so my user account can read and write to /var/www ?
<Azelphur> kvarley: it's not a security risk if you do it right
<Azelphur> kvarley: what I usually do, is make everything in /var/www in the "www-data" group, then add my user to the www-data group
<Azelphur> and chmod g+s /var/www so that all new files created are in the www-data group by default
<kvarley> Azelphur: Long time now see =] Ah, ok, that seems reasonable =]
<Azelphur> :)
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hi folks
<MooDoo> hello all
<gordonjcp> morning
<popey> bug 1005433
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1005433 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "No freedom of movement in g-c-c displays applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005433
<czajkowski> videobugs++
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<gord> my imapfilter now filters away new mailing lists that i get subscribed to automatically without my intervention, gonna get down to inbox 0 some day!
<czajkowski> heh
<brobostigon> whats the general opinion of the playbook. ?
<popey> dead
<brobostigon> i am just curious to havbe a play with qnx, than the the hw.
<popey> i recall playing with qnx probably over 10 years ago on a floppy disk they used to put out as a promo of how lean their OS was
<popey> http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html
<gordonjcp> popey: yup
<gordonjcp> I think they still have a single-floppy demo
<gordonjcp> it was surprisingly usable
<brobostigon> popey: i tried that also, it was very impressive.
<gordonjcp> if they had a commercial desktop version I'd probably have bought it
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: now that would be cool.
<gordonjcp> it was fast and stable, even on a single floppy
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: and nice and slim and speedy.
<oimon> anyone using gnome classic? have a weird issue
<popey> do you mean gnome fallback?
<oimon> when i click on another window, chromium hops to the bottom of the screen
<oimon> popey, yes
<oimon> ah, not just chromium but all windows
<oimon> well pidgin too
<oimon> gonna log off again
<oimon> hmm wonder if it's an incompatibility with plank dock
<oimon> using docky instead, seems better now
<kvarley> Getting permission denied when I try and write a file using PHP code. I have set apache2 to have the web root in my home folder, how can I give it permissions?
<kvarley> Nvm, got it. Was a simple group issue. Added the correct groups for www-data and it works.
<davmor2> morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<jmp_> g
<davmor2> popey: is uupc down
 * popey checks
<davmor2> popey: is it down for me is struggling
<popey> yeah, working on it
<popey> davmor2: should be back
<davmor2> popey: yay
<directhex> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/u7onz/iama_mono_maintainer_in_debian_and_ubuntu_ama/
<daubers> Managing my email has become significantly easier since I switched back to mutt
<brobostigon> ok, this is weird, wifi connects fine, try to ping out, nothing, traceroute, nothing. i then go up to my dad, try ping on his machine, and it pings out.
<diplo> Good read directhex , seems a fair bit of support
<directhex> might've gotten a different reaction in /r/linux
<directhex> might cross-post for the lulz
<brobostigon> is using ping -I reliable. ?
<popey> do you have multiple interfaces up brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> popey: yes, i am connected to our routers wifi, and tethered via my mobile, trying to work out, why the adsl is messing around.
<jacobw> afternoon
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/198576  oh dear
<jpds> czajkowski: Haha?
<czajkowski> jpds: there are some interesting questions in my queue toady
<jpds> czajkowski: Feels like what I get everyday.
<ali1234> seriously??
<ali1234> he accidentally installed ubuntu?
<gordonjcp> he accidentally the whole thing
<ali1234> i know windows users are famous for just cliicking through installers without reading anything at all but come on
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's easy to do by accident
<czajkowski> jpds: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/198556
<gordonjcp> you only need to click about a dozen "OK" buttons and enter a username and password
<gordonjcp> and set up your partitions
<popey> wubi
<popey> many fewer questions
<ali1234> ha, wubi was always a bad idea
<DJones> czajkowski: I read that as he was installing ubuntu on his iphone
<gordonjcp> wubi just always seemed like the bastard child of mulinux and ubuntu
<czajkowski> DJones: I did too as well
<gordonjcp> an ill-starred coupling if ever there was one
<jacobw> lol
<gord> i installed ubuntu by accident 8 years ago and still can't get out! halp!
<kvarley> lol
<DJones> gord: Don't worry, it'll be EOL anyway
<Daviey> gord will be EOL'd? oh noes.
<jacobw> 8 years is pre 4.10 :)
<gord> maths is difficult on a monday :(
<gord> or it feels like eight years, take your pick
<czajkowski> hmmm I've not had a single tea all day today
 * diplo is on about his tenth
<diplo> :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's why you are so quiet then you should do it more often
 * czajkowski ppeeers at davmor2 
<czajkowski> yes dear
<czajkowski> anyone got a contact who's involved in U3 in Manchester ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: try the mlug
<brobostigon> i have found a weird bug, when i ping out, over the wifi, i get huge lag. i am on my tablet, same wifi, no lag. and when i tether my mobile via usb, also no problem.
<czajkowski> davmor2: I know they re on the Ubuntu uk list as they have U cubed events :/
<brobostigon> any test suggestions ?
<davmor2> brobostigon: is this on a laptop
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, eeepc
<davmor2> brobostigon: what kinda wifi is it and is it plugged in?
<brobostigon> davmor2: wpa2, and power plugged in, no ethernet.
<davmor2> brobostigon: no what wifi card is in the eeepc you have sorry
<brobostigon> davmor2: atheros ar242x/ar542x
<davmor2> brobostigon: possibly an issue with the driver for the card, I'm pretty sure there is an app similar to top but for networking that might give you more info other than that try the regular channels like askubuntu, wiki, forums for that card on 12.04 and see if anyone has a fix for it or has reported it
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thanks. i have tried another wifi usb adapter, and get the same thing, so i dont think it is limited to driver.
<davmor2> brobostigon: unless the usbadapter has the same chip in it
<brobostigon> davmor2: let me look.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I had the issue while my system is unplugged from the mains
<davmor2> but it only ever effected me once
<brobostigon> davmor2: the other adapter is a rtl8187l
<brobostigon> davmor2: i htink i have narrowed it down abit, because if i disble the atheros, and use only the other adator, is does behave abit better. but not aswell. so i think it could be difinate to the atheros drivers.
<gord> bbc news on top form again ;) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-28-bbc-news-mistakes-halo-unsc-logo-for-un
<Azelphur> lmao
<funkyHat> â¢D
<brobostigon> i think the bug i found earlier is new, i have found nothing on the kernel bug tracker, not launchpad.
<brobostigon> nor*
 * daubers has just been given whiskey from Japan
<daubers> sorry, whisky (no e in this one)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_saLrADKqNM ?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-2941.aspx
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I only know that one (from Lost in Translation) :)
<oimon> i have backports repo enabled, but only v0.85 gets installed ...why's that? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011494/
<daubers> heh :)
<oimon> ^^ trying to install v0.91 of gnome-do
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you might need to specify you want a backport
<MartijnVdS> oimon: because of default pinning
<oimon> MartijnVdS, oh thanks. how?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: debian or ubuntu backports? :)
<oimon> software centre is ebnabled
<oimon> ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install packagename_here/distro-backports
<MartijnVdS> so oneiric-backports
<MartijnVdS> or precise-ba[Dckports
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<oimon>  sudo apt-get install gnome-do/precise-backports
<oimon> sweeet/ thanks
<stilia-johny> hi there!
 * stilia-johny is anyone that know about opencv?
<jacobw> stilia-johny: i can't see an irc channel or a mailing list referenced on their website
<jacobw> stilia-johny: just a yahoo group
<MartijnVdS> A group of yahoos then?
<jacobw> presumably :)
 * popey thinks gord might want to vote for this T-shirt to made. http://www.threadless.com/submission/426127/Boba_Fett_BAMF
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Cookie monster - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/05/28/cookie-monster/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=cookie-monster
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Web Gallery: Django Developers Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/28/ubuntu-accomplishments-web-gallery-django-developers-needed/
<Azelphur> still got issues lol
<jacobw> Azelphur: what's up?
<Azelphur> uhh good question, I have no recollection of typing that or any idea why I typed it
<Azelphur> maybe it was a wrong window and I didn't realise...weird
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got a "sorting" algorithm? I have a set of data (csv) with an id column and a parentid column. There may be multiple levels of parent-child relationship. I need to get the data ordered so that the "top-level" parents come first.
<ali1234> b-tree?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not even sure if there is a name for what I am trying to do. Is that what a b-tree is?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> i'm not 100% clear on what you mean
<ali1234> actually, i'm not 100% clear why you want that
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I have a shedload of companies in a csv file.
<TheOpenSourcerer> they have an id and some have a parent id (a company within a company like a department for example.)
<TheOpenSourcerer> the parent id is the id of another row in the csv
<ali1234> so you want to sort the items by depth in the tree
<jacobw> you want to sort by depth?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno? DO i?
<ali1234> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> sorry Do I?
<ali1234> yes you do :)
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: You want to sort based on the colour of the logo?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<jacobw> penguin42: that hurt my brain just then :p
<ali1234> so, my question is why do you want to do this?
<penguin42> jacobw: I didn't assume any of his previous statements about his CSV had any implication on what he wanted to do with it!
<jacobw> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Because the application I to which I am sending this data, really doesn't like it when a row wants to have a parent that doesn't exist yet.
<ali1234> i see, fair enough
<ali1234> so you don't actually need what you originally asked for :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> DOn't I?
<ali1234> you just need to make sure that a given node is always after it's parent
<ali1234> so the way you do this is load all the items then walk the tree depth first (which is the easiest way) outputting the items
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - And is there a name for that kind of sort?
<ali1234> no, cos it isn't a sort at all
<ali1234> it's just depth first tree walking
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Construct a column that is currentrow-parentcolumn, and sort on it
<penguin42> hmm - can you do that?
<ali1234> i don't understand that
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin they are not numerical like that.
<penguin42> thinking about it, I'm not sure I do now :-)
<ali1234> what language?
<jacobw> so what determines the parent relationship?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have it as a csv, Don't really care about language but as I am using Talend a java routine would be helpful. But know I know what it is called I google for it ;-)
<ali1234> this is what you need to do: load all the items one by one into a dict/hash/associative array/ whatever your language calls it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
<ali1234> indexed on the ID
<ali1234> then iterate the items and build a tree structure from it
<ali1234> basically that means for each item, add it to it's parent
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: alternatively do a multi-pass import
<ali1234> if no parent add it to a special root node
 * jacobw really wants to do a CS degree sometime
<AlanBell> so import once, some will fail, import again (don't import successful imported rows) and more will succeed, keep going until the number of imported records matches the number you wanted to import
<ali1234> then starting at the root node output the first child. terminate on leaf nodes etc
<ali1234> AlanBell: yuck
<AlanBell> yeah, yuck, but simple and effective for a once only data load
<ali1234> not really. how do you tell if any failed?
<ali1234> what if the software just bombs out horribly?
<AlanBell> doesn't matter, you just keep going until no more additional rows get added
<ali1234> ow
<ali1234> what if it just adds duplicates?
<AlanBell> well don't add duplicates :)
<jacobw> that's not good for time complexity
<AlanBell> you can then export the whole thing and compare against the original data
<ali1234> argh
<AlanBell> depends what time you are optimising, computer time or human time
<jacobw> ali1234's method would run in linear time for the number of items
<ali1234> human has to sit and do it too
<jacobw> the duplicate problem is already a counter example requiring a new operation for each item
<jacobw> anyhow, as long it works for the person concerned it's good :)
<AlanBell> and something that should probably be easy/already done
<AlanBell> anyhow, it is just one possible strategy
<jacobw> yeah, i would think this a common requirement
<TheOpenSourcerer> One would have thought so...
<ali1234> what value is used when there's no parent?
<jacobw> are there any items with a non existant parent?
<ali1234> there must be at least one
<Laney> it could be cyclic
<ali1234> it could be
<ali1234> but that would make it impossible to import
<ali1234> at least with alanbell's method :)
<jacobw> yeah, what i mean is do all items without parents have a property that only items without parents have or do they have some other unpredictable property
<ali1234> it's csv so i'm guessing it's just null or 0 or something
<jacobw> i.e. is the parent relationship property null or invalid in the propsed tree?
 * jacobw hopes so
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Yes. Rows without a parent have a empty value in the "parent" column
<ali1234> hmm is a python list inside a tuple mutable?
<AlanBell> so sorting by that and doing all the unparented nodes first would get fairly close if most things are not two level nested
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011860/
<jacobw> i think so
<ali1234> i forgot import sys
<ali1234> that should do it though
<TheOpenSourcerer> kewl - thanks ali1234
<ali1234> you must fix get_ids to actually get the ids
<ali1234> they don't need to be numeric though
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer:  fixed up version http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011869/
<ali1234> heh, argh it stil has bugs
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1011872/
<jacobw> is a python list in a tuple mutable?
<ali1234> yes it is
<jacobw> how mutable?
<ali1234> completely mutable
<jacobw> can you add new items or just modify existing items
<jacobw> ok, cool :)
<jacobw> this makes sense
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: That is very cool - thanks a bunch. The output looks perfect.
 * AlanBell applauds ali1234 for the not quick-and-dirty solution
<AlanBell> but still quite quick
<ali1234> i bet it was quicker than importing multiple times and then manually checking everything is ok :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> bloody quick actually. >11000 rows in about a second.
<ali1234> yeah, not really any reason for it to be slow. there is no sorting at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Plus the 30 minutes or so trying to grok what I was trying to do.
<ali1234> well, i suppose the dict is sorted
<ali1234> sort-of anyway
<czajkowski> evening chaparoos
<AlanBell> hullo czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh o
<AlanBell> eh o lala
<AlanBell> :)
 * AlanBell wonders if tellytubbies is still going
<AlanBell> hmm, stopped in 2002 after 365 episodes, I suspect I have seen them all
<ali1234> "in the night garden" is pretty much the same show
<AlanBell> yeah, but iggle piggle is more obnoxious
 * AlanBell is going to http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/go-surrey/default.aspx tomorrow
<brobostigon> enjoy.
<gordonjcp> oh man I love random shuffle play
<gordonjcp> "AKAI_AX73_Factory_Patch_Tape.mp3", I love that tune
<AlanBell> on heavy rotation
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well yeah
<gordonjcp> everybody needs some earsplitting FSK tones
<ali1234> sometimes i get transcription mp3s
<AlanBell> it is where dubstep came from
<ali1234> i dunno who thought up this idea of having the computer automatically index everything
<ali1234> but it really sucks
<ali1234> i hate when i'm busily working on some code and realise i've been listening to a lecture about obstetrics for 20 minutes
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello :)
<popey> yo bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> Howdy popey :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Hotel wifi is costly. Thank goodness for 3g teathering
<gordonjcp> ali1234: lol
<czajkowski> I've updated my slides from the weekend from flossie if anyone is looking for them http://ubuntuone.com/6g8b4YTsYZVtfLJDbcFsZj - Baby steps into an open source community.
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: hello from NI o/
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: we're visiting Dublin on Wednesday :D
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: evening
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/108463274542772401626/about
<shauno> bigcalm_laptop: don't do it.  the sun's made them crazy!
<popey> ali1234: who he?
<ali1234> popey: he's the king of pascal!
<popey> of course
 * popey clicks "add to circles"
<ali1234> he's a relatively famous usenet guy from back in the day
<ali1234> profile says it all really
<ali1234> this is where g+ is winning: it appeals to people who rolled their eyes and carried on walking when facebook came out
<ali1234> they're not really winning. it's not like they have any competition. all the other social networks are picking up young people who never used the internet before.
<bigcalm_laptop> Sleepy time :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Toodles!
<shauno> g+ is actually pretty nifty, I just don't like that it's google's.  I prefer to keep them at a safe distance.  they already know too much
<ali1234> yeah there is that
<shauno> apparently not a common stance tho, given the amount of data people are willing to feed facebook
<ali1234> old timers are pretty comfortable with the knowledge that every hop between you are the server can see everything
 * penguin42 works on the basis that google knows everything else about me so what the heck
<directhex> hm......... so, which is preferable: a library in non-free due to a closed-source but distributable component, or the library in main with a chunk of functionality removed by force?
<ali1234> depends how important the functionality is
<ali1234> but i'd say non-free
<penguin42> directhex: Can you split the package so that you get the functionality if you install the non-free bit?
<directhex> penguin42, no. it's a core requirement and cannot be split
<directhex> well, not cleanly
<penguin42> hmph that sucks
<directhex> it can be split violently and without caring about the bleeding
 * penguin42 hands directhex an axe and gaffer tape
<directhex> which is option 2
<penguin42> directhex: What's the package, what's the functionality and what's the non-free bit?
<directhex> penguin42, monogame, a library which enables development (and porting) of XNA games. fr'example, there's an unofficial port of Terraria to linux via monogame. the closed-source component is the joypad support
<penguin42> and in what way is it closed-source - where did it come from under whatlicense?
<penguin42> is it closed source and distributable or closed-source hard luck?
<directhex> https://github.com/mono/MonoGame/blob/develop/ThirdParty/GamepadConfig/License.txt
<penguin42> ah...mono
<ali1234> can't it check for the assembly at runtime?
<directhex> ali1234, in theory, but it hasn't been written to do it like that, and existing games wouldn't run since they link directly against the lib rather than runtime loading it
<penguin42> directhex: so in practice is everything going to want gamepad support and therefor it's useless to have a package without it?  If so then just go with the non-free
<ali1234> so how would you make a "free" version? just put in a stub assembly that does nothing?
<directhex> ali1234, yep
<ali1234> yeah i have to say non-free
<directhex> penguin42, well, that's what i'm not sure about.
<ali1234> anyone who cares about the difference between free and non-free probably isn't using mono anyway
<penguin42> directhex: I'm not a gamer, gamepads sound kind of useful to it though, although I guess some are keyboard/mouse/joystick/mindcontrol playable
<directhex> ali1234, i've done a copyright audit on 450 source files tonight. how's your day going? :p
<ali1234> i mended a fence
<directhex> were the planks Free?
<ali1234> i dunno
<penguin42> directhex: They had a clause that disallowed you using them to create a walled garden
<directhex> penguin42, that doesn't sound very liberal. people should be free to build the gardens of their choice!
<shauno> speaking of mono, I enjoyed your AMA directhex :)
<directhex> shauno, utterly exhausting!
<shauno> it was mildly entertaining to see the questions turn into "how do you sleep at night" as soon as you cross-posted /r/linux too
<directhex> 56 replies on /r/opensource, 47 on /r/linux
<directhex> that takes a while to type
<directhex> even if the answers are short
<directhex> /r/linux was obviously going to be a more hostile audience. i expected that.
<shauno> well, thumbs up.  it was interesting
<directhex> I don't need thumbs, I need upvotes! precious upvotes!
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-29
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Things that compile to JavaScript - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/05/29/things-that-compile-to-javascript
<shauno> directhex: upboated all the things!  except cats.  I don't get it.
<AlanBell> directhex: can you ask Daniel Sor to put a proper license on that bit?
<directhex> AlanBell: i've filed a bug upstream about the issue, and they've implied that they're going to try and do that
<directhex> they're taking the issue seriously, which is nice
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> heya petal :)
<czajkowski> christel: hows you darling?
<christel> not too shabby
 * mattt is a grump today
<MooDoo> hi christel czajkowski mattt
<christel> HELLO LOVELY
 * christel squidges MooDoo and matti 
<christel> mattt*
<MooDoo> awwww :) christel <3 x
<christel> <3
<AlanBell> morning christel
<AlanBell> and others
<diplo> Install Vbox or KVM+VirtManager peeps?
<diplo> Thoughts?
<AlanBell> diplo: for local stuff?
<diplo> yeah
<christel> hello AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> if you want 3d accellerated guests then virtualbox
<diplo> CentOS 4.8 dev work :(
<diplo> nah no 3d
<AlanBell> if you want to have a setup that is like you might have running on a server then kvm
<diplo> just cli, creating new rpm packages for our customers on 4.8 :/
<diplo> Ta
<AlanBell> virtualbox is easier and gui stuff works better
<AlanBell> but kvm is possibly a more useful thing to learn about
<diplo> ah I remember I had a pain in my **** with doing the network side of kvm last time
<diplo> Oh defo
<AlanBell> yeah, it is still a pita
<diplo> :(
<mattt> morning moodoo, christel :)
<AlanBell> nat is easy, but bridging can be challenging
<diplo> I'll install both and play I guess, get's me used to them again
<AlanBell> christel: you will have to pop in to the office for a cuppa
<christel> yes! i must
<christel> :D
<directhex> bridging is easy
<directhex> as long as you have a bridge device :D
<diplo> hmm failed to install anyway.. so virt box for now and find out why kvm packages failed later
<popey> AlanBell: do you use kvm on your hetzner box?
<AlanBell> yes
<diplo> sorry desktop locked up there, do you use Virtmanager to connect remotely, or use cli ?
<popey> how do you allocate disk space to the VMs?
<diplo> lol so report a problem (apport) crashed whilst reporting a problem
<diplo> :P
<AlanBell> popey: just with virt-manager, most of our VMs don't need much space
<popey> AlanBell: i mean, do you use lvm or files for the filesystem of the VMs
<AlanBell> and I now let it do the sparce file thing
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<AlanBell> popey: they are .img files in /var/lib/libvirt/images and I just stick ext4 on them
<Azelphur> my room has officially turned into Logitech all the things \o/
<Azelphur> G19, G13, G930, M570 xD
<popey> so they're ext4 on top of ext4?
<AlanBell> no lvm
<AlanBell> yes, etx4 filesystem in a file that is in an ext4 filesystem
<AlanBell> which is journaling in journaling I suppose
<AlanBell> but seeing as either the guest or the host could have an unplanned shutdown it is probably nice to have journaling on both
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> on lug.org.uk we use LVM on the host and xen presents those to the guests
<popey> we're moving lug.org.uk to bitfolk - well, it's moved already
<AlanBell> that sounds quite efficent
<popey> has worked for us for $years
<Azelphur> hmm that's odd, my new mouse has buttons 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9. I wonder where 6 and 7 went o.O
<diplo> Someone stole them!
<diplo> Theif!
<Azelphur> Button ninjas! :O
<Azelphur> I'm wondering if there's 2 secret buttons that I am missing or something haha
<diplo> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Get_All_Mouse_Buttons_Working_(%E6%AD%A3%E9%AB%94%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87)
<diplo> Maybe some pointers there ?
<Azelphur> maybe, I'm not sure if I actually have more than 7 buttons though, from what I can see I have 4 buttons and a scroll wheel
<AlanBell> scroll wheel is 4 and 5
<AlanBell> does it have tilt too?
<Azelphur> nah, no tilt
<Azelphur> maybe 6 and 7 are reserved for tilt if you have it
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> morning czajkowski
<SuperMatt> fuck to the yeah! I've tweak radiance to get a theme that matches spotify :D
<DJones> SuperMatt: Can you tone the language down a bit, remember this is meant to be a family friendly channel
<SuperMatt> sorry
<SuperMatt> I thought I was in another channel
<SuperMatt> my bad
<SuperMatt> I keep doing this
<DJones> No worries :) Accidents happen
<gordonjcp> I hate the phrase "family friendly"
<gordonjcp> what a meaningless string of tosh
<czajkowski> !ask AlanBell
<AlanBell> !tell czajkowski
<AlanBell> :)
<czajkowski> heh
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/radiance-spotify/
<oimon> can anyone recommend a good pico projector?
<Azelphur> I'm having a bit of a wine/nvidia related issue it seems that I'm missing my 32bit compatibility libs for the nvidia drivers so wine reverts to a really old OpenGL version, any ideas on how I'd fix that?
<oimon> or any cheap portable projector really
<gord> Azelphur, ia32-libs ?
<Azelphur> gord: already installed
<Azelphur> In fedora, the package I need is xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs I think
<Azelphur> but it looks like ubuntu doesn't have a similar package :(
<popey> thats nvidia-current
<Azelphur> popey: figured it might be bundled in there, I need the 32bit libraries rather than the whole driver though
<popey> nvidia-current:i386
<popey> probably wont do what you expect/want
<Azelphur> that's obviously gonna explode things as it'll stall the kernel modules and stuff
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/852873 looks like this bug
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 851947 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #852873 /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1 prevents Doom 3 from starting" [High,Fix released]
<Azelphur> the bot lies, it says unassigned confirmed on launchpad o.O
<popey> no
<popey> its a dupe, the status is for bug #852873
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 851947 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #852873 /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1 prevents Doom 3 from starting" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851947
<popey> sorry I mean the other way round
<popey> its the status for the main bug not the dupe
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=15537 oO, my exact issue :D
<bubu\a> hi guys, i've been given a .p12 cert by a windows admin which is needed to connect https between their server and our ubuntu server. how can i convert to a .pem or .crt file so I have my privatekey.key and my crt?
<penguin42> bubu\a: http://www.sslshopper.com/article-most-common-openssl-commands.html
<penguin42> bubu\a: It's got a section called 'Converting Using OpenSSL'
<bubu\a> cool thx
<bubu\a> have found a few
<bubu\a> converted several times now
<bubu\a> but when i curl -i https://hisserver:443 I get SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
<bubu\a> and am not sure why ... have installed other .crt/.key certs ok before
<bubu\a> I get the same error if i curl -i https://127.0.0.1:44
<bubu\a> 443*
<Knightwise> hey guys
<Azelphur> Santander just sent me an email to explain what a cookie is
<Azelphur> "âCookiesâ enable users to navigate around websites"
 * Azelphur stabs
<popey> heh, yeah
<popey> and note the domain its sent from
<popey> "yoursantander"
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> "This email is intended for Mr Day, 2AR" ... what?
<Knightwise> i was looking to install vuze on my ppc mac , and it askes me to install jde (or jre)
<popey> their attempt to prove it's from them
<Azelphur> haha
<Knightwise> is that an apt-get i should do ?
<popey> Knightwise: http://kapsulax.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/java-plugin-under-linux-ppc.html
<Knightwise> thanx popey  !
<Knightwise> gonna give it a try
<Knightwise> got Lubuntu working on my 17 inch G4 imac
<Knightwise> beautiful piece of tech
<Knightwise> If i can get Java working on it it will make a very pretty server :)
<popey> sweet
<Knightwise> yep :) will be doing a podcast on it this week
<Knightwise> and did a videoblog on it yesterday
<Knightwise> Jury is still out if its gonna be lxde or xfce in the long run
<penguin42> I don't suppose anyone has an android dev/ndk setup that they fancy checking to see whether build instructions I've written work for anyone else?
 * Azelphur is eating fish fingers and custard :D
<davmor2> Azelphur: you are not doctor who :P
<Azelphur> I am now!
<Azelphur> it's actually quite nice
<DJones> Somebody was talking about eating pancakes with gravy the other day, that sounded vile until they said its the same as yorkshire pudding & grivy
<Azelphur> 10 fish fingers, Â£1. Tin of Devon custard, 89p. Eating like a time lord: priceless :D
<davmor2> DJones: nope it still sounds vile
<davmor2> Azelphur: I was aiming more for eating like a time lord: Prat! ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> Anyone here have a 4 directional scroll wheel and mind running xev and telling me what button numbers the left and right are?
<Hornet> Azelphur: that would be unlimited rice pudding
<Azelphur> xD
<vedreamer> I'm trying to build a kernel on a vm with a small disk. I think I just need the virtual .deb files. Anyone know how I can do this
<vedreamer> I used fakeroot debian/rules binary
<AlanBell> choo choo
 * brobostigon joins in making choochoo sounds.
<czajkowski> choo choo July 14th :)
<brobostigon> rat
<penguin42> ?
<AlanBell> yes, that one does make all the right noises
<gord> really am disappointed by the lack of chooing that modern trains do
<mattt> yes, what we need are trains w/ more choo
 * mattt stares at gord
<gord> they also need to go chugga-cha-chug. chugga-cha-chug more
<gord> so i can nap
<gord> and occasionally just as i am going to sleep, one should be sent out to make pleasing noises in the distance
<czajkowski> gord: you should have that as a ring tone !
<AlanBell> afternoon naps are nice
<mattt> AlanBell: on holiday this week?
<bigcalm_laptop> Afternoon peeps :)
<DJones> Whats happening at RIM? Just seen a stock market alert saying their shares have been suspended
<dogmatic69> I have heard shares get suspended if there is a big jump in a few minutes, quite normal apparently
<DJones> Just looking at news, sounds like they're reporting very poor results
<dogmatic69> stocks up .7%
<dogmatic69> google says they lost a senior exec
<dogmatic69> *another
<dogmatic69> chief legal officer is retiring
 * DJones makes a note not to buy a RIM phone
<ali1234> RIM is toast
<ali1234> because they failed to understand who was buying their phones
<dogmatic69> also, they are cutting 1000's of jobs
<dogmatic69> 14 yo girls...
<ali1234> exactly
<DJones> ali1234: toast is good, I get the feeling that rim isn't doing good :)
<dogmatic69> but its a 'business' phone
<ali1234> exactly!
<dogmatic69> DJones: good time to short some shares...
<MartijnVdS> I don't want to do business with 14 yr old girls
<ali1234> their developer offering is entirely geared towards "enterprise" developers
<dogmatic69> ali1234: well, marketing found that is what 14 yo girls need
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and it's a bad sdk too..
<dogmatic69> help with cookie sales and all...
<DJones> director at work has just replaced his blackberry with an iphone because the blackberry was rubbish at internet based things
<ali1234> it's not particularly bad, it just isnt designed for making angry birds and social apps
<dogmatic69> BBM!
<ali1234> now nokia has the exact opposite problem: their main market (symbian) is business users, but their ecosystem is designed around ... angry birds and social apps that business users do not want
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it doesn't even use the internet.. it uses RIMs butchered version
<MartijnVdS> so you always need a RIM server/subscription
<dogmatic69> ye
<ali1234> BBM was extremely popular with teenagers because it is much much cheaper than SMS
<MartijnVdS> which is why I use gtalk
<ali1234> BBM is cheaper than "unlimited" internet
<MartijnVdS> not anymore here
<MartijnVdS> they're making you buy both here
<ali1234> true, that's another reason why RIM is toast
<ali1234> i see the facebook phone announcement failed to lift the share price
<MartijnVdS> there's an announcement?
<ali1234> yeah. bbc don't print rumours unless they're official off the record rumours
<DJones> This would explain the share notice http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/05/29/205256/rim-may-need-to-write-off-1-billion-in-inventory?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<shauno> RIM are rather scary.  I can't remember the last time I heard any good news from them at all
<dogmatic69> anyone familiar with doxygen?
<dogmatic69> I want to use terminal version only, eg doxygen <command> but the installer wants to dl 600mb. This is 11.10 server and guessing its that big due to the doxygen gui parts
<dogmatic69> well, 420mb, 680 installed http://bin.cakephp.org/view/773503325
<gord> dogmatic69, nah, doxygen is just huuuuge
<dogmatic69> gord: cool, I will just do it and hope for the best... :D
<gord> the gui tool is basically just a quick and dirty application that just runs the command line anyway :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-30
<AlanBell> home at last
<penguin42> from anywhere exciting?
<astromech> morning everyone ! :)
<Knightwise> morning ! :)
<Knightwise> hey alan_g
<brobostigon> good morning eveyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon ! hey MartijnVdS !
<Knightwise> how are you doing
<brobostigon> hey Knightwise
<brobostigon> hey MartijnVdS
<Knightwise> will be doing an interesting topic on this weeks podcast
<Knightwise>  Ubuntu on a G4 imac
<Knightwise> still working through some issues though
<Knightwise> lets say an app isn't compiled for ppc
<Knightwise> (like for example flash and stuff)
<Knightwise> can you compile it from source code ?
<diplo> Morning all
<Knightwise> hey diplo
<mattt> morning morning
<Knightwise> hey matt
<Knightwise> question : just to get things straight for my podcast
<Knightwise> when you have the sourcecode of an app , you can just compile it for whatever distro you are using .. right ?
<Knightwise> but does that also mean that you can compile it for any processor ?
<Knightwise> reason i'm asking is : if i run Linux on my PPC Imac
<Knightwise> and i want to run chromium .. there is no port for chromium
<Knightwise> is it possible for me to compile it from source ?
<brobostigon> yes, Knightwise
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: if it's written properly, it shuold work
<brobostigon> Knightwise: as for flash, you will have to use gnash, or similer, as adobe dont release the source.
<Knightwise> thanx brobostigon , MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> but if they use in-line assembler, or other processor-specific tricks (or bugs!), you're out of luck (unless you know the bugs/features and can work around them)
<Knightwise> i'll go and try Gnash and anyone have any good alternatives to chromeium ?
<Knightwise> (i have firefox 11 on it btw)
<Knightwise> its a lubuntu 12.04 install
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: why not just use chromium?
<brobostigon> Knightwise: i think there is a powerpc build of chromium in debian, so you might be able to get some help there.
<Knightwise> aha , that sounds interesting.
<brobostigon> Knightwise: i just checked, and there is. so you maybe able to import it.
<Knightwise> aha :) so there is a ppc deb for chromium
<Knightwise> might take a look at that.
<Knightwise> be back in a sec
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<hoover> morning all
<AlanBell> morning all
<SuperEngineer> just announced: sounds like Julian Assange extradition to go ahead
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<kvarley> SuperEngineer: It's a weird situation. If he hadn't had the incident with those women then he'd have been fine. He was moving into the media too much tho, when somebody does that stuff they should be off the radar at all times.
<SuperEngineer> agreed  -- but -- but so should the CIA
<kvarley> SuperEngineer: Lol true
<gord> neat, new nvidia driver with xrandr support seems to work well
<arsen> so, lets say my new work environment has been using SLED for the last two years (for dev/sysadminning), what arguements can i make to push them back to ubuntu?:)
<kirrus> Argh!
<kirrus> Something is setting off a 'doorchime' sound on my computer, and I can't trace it. Any ideas?
<kirrus> The sound centre isn't giving any help at all. I've excluded thunderbird, pidgin, any sound notification (I killed the binary)
 * kirrus wonders if someone is pranking him
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: "door chime" sound?
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: transmission finishing a download?
<MartijnVdS> system bell? (check sound preferences -- it has options for "Glass" and "Sonar" etc.)
<shauno> in the scary old days, I used to chase such faults by pulling the soundcard out, and then looking to see which processes were stuck when the kernel started spewing DMA timeouts all over the screen
<stuphi> kirrus: That normally happens to me when the mess on my desk overflows onto the keyboard.
<shauno> (not recommended, just feeling old)
<kirrus> stuphi: hehe, yeah, not quite that bad ;)
<kirrus> MartijnVdS: don't run transmission! :/
<kirrus> shauno: *wishes that still worked*
<shauno> I'm not sure it should have worked in the first place.  they were never designed to be hot-swappable :)
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: keep the sound preferences window open on the "connected clients" list
<kirrus> Didn't change when it played :(
<MartijnVdS> is it your PC playing it then?
<MartijnVdS> some flash page in the background somewhere?
<kirrus> Aye, these don't have speakers, this is the only one attached to some speakers
<kirrus> No, not as far as I can tell
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: does turning the volume up/down work?
<kirrus> MartijnVdS: not tried that yet.. the chime is short enough I can't get my hands to the right place on the keyboard fast enough. I might try turning it down this evening once I can
<AlanBell> kirrus: have you tried answering the door ;)
<kirrus> AlanBell: :P
<MartijnVdS> kirrus: no turn down the volume to minimum, wait.. then turn up to maximum, wait
<davmor2> morning all
<DJones> directhex: Congratulations
 * davmor2 feels like he missed out on the start of this conversation, DJones, directhex why are you being congratulate
<DJones> davmor2: From twitter http://hasflisshadthebabyyet.apebox.org/
<davmor2> DJones: nice
<davmor2> directhex: Congats dude
<DJones> I guess that will mean mono developent will be postboned for the foreseeable future
<davmor2> DJones: next 18 years :D
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello how be you
<davmor2> czajkowski: I be tired, how be you
<mattt> installing 12.04 on my desktop at work ...
 * mattt holds onto his butts
<czajkowski> davmor2: good, busy but good
<SuperMatt> mattt: I'm sure you know it's not going to be a problem. 12.04 is just awesome.
<Nafallo> yay! HSBC fast balance finally available on android.
<czajkowski> Nafallo: howdy
<Nafallo> morning
<mattt> SuperMatt: to be fair, i mainly use my macbook :P
<mattt> but i'm still excited
<SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to the quantal alpha :D
<SuperMatt> For some reason, I enjoy living on the edge
<oimon> argh once signing into g+ chat, now i see g+ contacts in pidgin . anyone km
<oimon> know how to fix?
<gord> i'm confused, why would you sign in to google+ chat if you didn't want to see the google+ contacts?
<oimon> i wanted to start a hangout with my missis. now i get notifications everytime popey signs in
<gord> so remove your gtalk account from pidgin?
<popey> or disable notifications
<AlanBell> or unfriend popey
<oimon> i only want to see my gmail talk contacts rather than g+ contacts in my list
<AlanBell> it does sound more like a feature than a bug
<popey> you can disable that in G+
<AlanBell> I found a heap of google chat things on my android client the other day, people have been inviting me to stuff since oggcamp and I never knew it was happening
<gord> "This email was sent to gordsemail@gmail.com because you indicated that you want to receive news regarding Google Analytics integration with other Google products. If you do not wish to receive such emails in the future, please unsubscribe here: {% optout analytics promotion %} " uh...
<oimon> popey, ah yes, i just found the custom list
<AlanBell> I don't really know how the android messenger thing ties in with the google plus desktop interface
<oimon> i use g+ as a twitter replacement. however since i accidentally updated the g+ app on my tablet i'm not sure i want to anymore
<oimon> it's hideous
<AlanBell> it is dreadful now
<oimon> forutnately my phone is pinned on the old version
<popey> i like it
<oimon> i'd go as far to say that it's broken and doesn't work
<gord> i found it a bit crampt on my phones fairly small by modern standards resolution
<oimon> small icons and pics in posts end up being massive and obliterate the text
<AlanBell> it is kind of clever that they put the pictures behind the text and mostly it stays readable
<AlanBell> you only get two things on screen really now
<AlanBell> twitter gets about 5 tweets
<oimon> it looks hideous on a tablet
<oimon> the webpage still looks ok
<AlanBell> irssi in screen gets about 25 lines of stuff
<popey> everything looks hideous on an android tablet âº
<AlanBell> plus highlights and channel list
<AlanBell> popey: well do hurry up with the ubuntu tablets then :)
<popey> roger roger
<daubers> whats the vector victor?
<gord> what's the frequency Kenneth?
<oimon> this bug made me switch to gnome classic.need to wait till weekend to actually raise the bug in launchpad though :( http://askubuntu.com/questions/129265/nx-session-window-icon-shrinks-and-is-non-responsive-but-remote-session-still-a
<davmor2> gord: mrevell: you both coming tomorrow?
<gord> lots of stuff to do, so doubtful unless i get i make a good dent in it all today
<czajkowski> oimon: why do you have to wait til the weekend?
<oimon> czajkowski, i'm running windows on my laptop to work on an issue all week and can't reboot into linux to give screenshots/steps to repeat
<oimon> btw how was flossie
<czajkowski> good thanks
<Knightwise> pompom pom
<mattt> note to self, don't eat dodgy fish burger+chips for lunch
 * hamitron scratches head
<hamitron> gftp transfers at 22KB/s using ssh, scp transfers at 140KB/s
<oimon> has anyone ever done a wee into a bottle while at the desk on a long conf call?
<oimon> tempted right now
<hamitron> done it into an empty bottle of cider
<hamitron> but not what you say
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> i bought a Â£120k setup and getting 1mb/s read speed
<oimon> was hoping for more like 500MB/s
<hamitron> over ssh?
<oimon> no, direct attached
<hamitron> k :/
<oimon> running vmware on a blade
<oimon> connected to SAN
<oimon> something's broke but we don't know what
<hamitron> well, I've given up with vmware again
<diplo> After guys, anyone know much about MariaDB, esepecially licensing ?
<hamitron> but that is only workstation
<hamitron> :)
<daubers> oimon: Is it quicker on the host (rather than in the VM guest)
<AlanBell> diplo: it is GPL and works like mysql
<oimon> daubers, yes
<diplo> It's just my colleagues in Nottingham believe there is an issue with MySQL and C++ licensing that prevents us using mysql
<oimon> if i live boot from an iso , hdparm gives OK speeds
<diplo> atm we are using SQLite but it doesn't suit, can't find any info whether it's exactly same license for mariadb for the c++ issues
<oimon> maybe a multipathing driver issue in esxi
<jpds> diplo: Install Postgres?
 * daubers excessivley dislikes SANs
<diplo> heh, that is the other option jpds, I just suggested MariaDB as it means no massive code changes
<AlanBell> diplo: there might be problems with mysql as oracle are going to interpret grey areas to their advantage
<diplo> http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/
<AlanBell> http://kb.askmonty.org/en/licensing-faq/
<diplo> Guessing it's related to this, the guys up north looked into it more than I have in the last 10  minutes
<diplo> MySQL before 5.1.55 also had the same FLOSS exception for the C client libraries, but the exception file and all references to it were removed by Oracle in MySQL 5.1.55.
<diplo> Hmm so it defo seems to be the client connection part
<diplo> I *hate* licensing!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> OK, so still screwed with mariadb
<kvarley> Is there a way to clone an SD Card with dd but in a way that the output of the device is half the size of the actual card? For example my SD card is 512 MB but the content on there only actually fills 128MB, is there a way to clone the partitions but with a smaller cylinder size?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: is this for raspberry pi?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yes
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: then you can make the partitions on the "target" card yourself using fdisk or gparted (1x FAT, 1x EXT4, optional: 1x swap)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: then copy the contents over by mounting both ext4 partitions (source and target) and rsyncing everything over
<MartijnVdS> I think
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I wanted to clone my 512MB card to an image but resize of partition sizes within the image so that people could write the image to a 256 MB card
<hamitron> can't you create a blank image, copy the files to it, then write the boot sectors?
<hamitron> you'd need to format the blank image first too ofc
<kvarley> hamitron: Hadn't thought of that. That may just work, what tool do you recommend for writing boot sectors? Or would it work if I mounted the image as a loop and then used parted to make partitions?
<hamitron> dd
<hamitron> well, I'd use dd for copying the raw boot sector
<kvarley> hamitron: Gonna use dd to make a blank image then go from there. I'll let you know how I get on - thanks for the help =]
<hamitron> I just recall, been able to grab the first so many bytes from a drive using dd, but sure how many and if I'm even talking sense
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> google will know no doubt
<popey> ooh, reminds me, my 2nd raspberry pi is out for delivery
<popey> i should keep an ear out
<gord> so good you needed another one?
<kvarley> Everybody needs at least 2 Pis
<kvarley> One stable, one to mess with
<popey> 3rd should get here next week
<gord> not sure what i could actually use a pi for
<hamitron> kvarley, http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-copy-mbr/
<kvarley> popey: You got XBMC running on it yet?
<popey> yes
<kvarley> hamitron: Thanks
<gord> apart from maaaybe replacing my revos, but i'm in no hurry to do that
<kvarley> popey: It's surprisingly good
<hamitron> can't you just have 2 memory cards, to swap with 1 r-pi?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I've registered my interest for my first r-pi now \o/
<kvarley> What are /dev/sdb /dev/sdc called?
<hamitron> they are files, representing drives
<kvarley> Wondered if they have a specific name so I can search for how to mount an unformatted img file as one
<hamitron> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/mounting-img-files-328503/
<popey> kvarley: what are you trying to do?
<popey> make an sd card for a pi?
<kvarley> hamitron: Thanks, got it mounted now
<kvarley> popey: Making a bootable image for redistribution
<kvarley> hamitron: Had to format the .img file first "mkfs.msdos imagefile.img"
<hamitron> yep
<popey> kvarley: containing what?
<diplo> popey: How well does xbmc run then? I was up to buy one to get it for media box for my boys room, but failed to order and thought i'd wait out to see what improvements came over the following months before i actually ordered
<kvarley> popey: A OpenELEC (XBMC)
<popey> ahh
<hamitron> is the MBR used on the SD card with the r-pi, like a "normal" PC uses it?
<kvarley> diplo: Menus still need a little tweaking. Can play 1080p x264 videos no problems tho. As the menus get fully rendered by the GPU it'll free up the CPU to run programs and add-ons in the background
<kvarley> diplo: For the price it makes a damn swish media centre
<diplo> Cool, sold still then,,, mates turned up yesterday so going to try it out.
<diplo> I'd love one for the boys and my room, have a revo in the front room with xbmc already
<hamitron> surely the revo will kick its butt?
<diplo> Any recommendations on imgs to load for XBMC ?
<popey> hamitron: at what?
<kvarley> hamitron: No MBR, just a "start.elf" file in a partition which is marked with flags boot and lba
<diplo> Yes, but that's in the front room and Â£150+, I want one for the two other rooms
<kvarley> diplo: I'm making one now
<diplo> ah right, making some improvements ?
<hamitron> popey, poowwwwwwwwwwwwer ;)
<popey> pi is lower power :p
<kvarley> diplo: Oh, sorry thought you literally meant .img. I'm making a .img of OpenELEC. OpenELEC is a lightweight linux distro which specifically runs and targets the RPi - it's the best I've tried so far for running XBMC.
<hamitron> oh, energy wise yeh
<diplo> ah, just read up about openelec, can't say I've seen it before
<hamitron> but comeon..... atom vs arm
<gord> for xbmc, all you need is enough power to play 1080p content
<popey> are you trolling?
<diplo> hamitron: It's GPU based though mainly
<popey> what he said
<gord> you don't need lots of power, just enough
<gord> the new revos are stupid powerful though, the black ones have a geforce 210 variant in them
<diplo> Will tell him to use OpenElec kvarley thanks, glad I ordered these monitors @ work with hdmi sockets :D
<hamitron> so the revo is more powerful, can do more things
<hamitron> is all I'm saying
<hamitron> :)
<popey> if you only want it to do one thing, no need
<hamitron> not trolling..... today
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> vdpau has broken on my precice xbmc install, so i had to drop it down to using software decoding, it actually only hits one core and gets smooth playback at 1080p... i'm mostly putting it down to the new nvidia drivers though, xrandr means xbmc can switch the refresh rate down to 24hz
<diplo> Tried the XBMC official release gord ? Or you run normal precise and ppa ?
<gord> normal precice and ubuntu xbmc
<gord> its in the repos now
<gord> which is nice because it uses system installed ffmpeg, so i get 10bit decoding support in eden
<diplo> oh right
<diplo> Time to upgrade for me then!
<diplo> I'm running Eden but on 9.04 or 9.10, can't remember
 * hamitron is loving 12.04
<kvarley> diplo: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/
 * popey falls over
<popey> kvarley: is that a tarball or what?
<kvarley> popey: tarballs on there at the moment
<kvarley> popey: Image coming when I get it done
<popey> k
<kvarley> popey: I can give you a shout when it's up if you want?
<popey> pro-tip, put it in your ubuntu one folder, and share it
<popey> then you get an ubuntu-one url rather than a manky mediafire one :D
<hamitron> is ubuntu one good then?
<kvarley> popey: Ok =]
<AlanBell> better than those popup sites
<hamitron> I sorta removed the icon :/
<gord> you can also use dropbox or whatever if you prefer ;)
<hamitron> with all these terms and conditions, it gets confusing
<davmor2> hamitron: U1 is perfect for me
<hamitron> tempted to just go back to basics
<hamitron> is it 5GB or 20GB storage?
<AlanBell> U1 is good, but has problems with uploading lots of files at once (fix in progress I think)
<davmor2> hamitron: you can access U1 via the messages indicator
<gord> 5GB free, 20GB pay pay for
<bubu\a> any uk'ers here get xbmcflix working in UK on XBMC?
<AlanBell> U1 seems quite a bit slower than dropbox
<diplo> bubu\a: Netflix on XBMC ?
<bubu\a> yes
<ali1234> what happens if i hammer a free U1 account?
<bubu\a> diplo, its called XBMCflix
<diplo> Thought it was silverlight, so only way would be on a windows xbmc install
<diplo> Not seen that
<AlanBell> ali1234: then aquarius will have a sad face
<bubu\a> yeah needs windows install
<ali1234> like by using it to host all the images on my 2M hits per hour blog, for example
<bubu\a> only reason I switched from xbmc live to XBMC ontop of win7
<bubu\a> and there is no UK API for it :(
<gord> it probably explicitly crawls the us site
<aquarius> ali1234, depends on your definition of the word "hammer". At the moment, we do not restrict how many times a published file is downloaded.
<ali1234> aquarius: well, i defined it ^
<aquarius> I do not believe that you have a blog which is hit two million times an hour. :)
<hamitron> haha
<gord> buuuurn
<aquarius> *youtube* only gets about 70 times that much :)
<hamitron> all these free services have turned me into a right tight git
<hamitron> begrudge paying anything these days ;)
<bubu\a> lol
<aquarius> hamitron, U1's pretty nice, although obviously I would say that. Paying for a service is, in my opinion, a good idea, because I read http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and agreed with it, and it changed my view on how I use stuff (honestly unconnected with how I work on a service which I'd like people to pay for, although I can see why you wouldn't believe me on that :)
<hamitron> I believe in paying for a service, to get something decent and make it viable
<hamitron> but I also hate paying
<hamitron> so end up with nothing \o/
<aquarius> Mac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.
<ali1234> it won't run properly in a VM
<ali1234> gord will probably try to disagree but i don't care, unity needs better 3D support than VMs can provide
<hamitron> I'll second what ali1234 said
<hamitron> resizing windows just made it feel sluggish :/
<gord> if only unity had a 2d mode?
<aquarius> OK. But will everything else run properly *not* in a VM? Historically, as I understand it, we've not had great support for Mac hardware, and he's not a technical guy -- if it doesn't suspend properly or doesn't work with his TV properly or the sound doesn't work sometimes then it'll turn him off, and I'd like to impress here if I can.
<diplo> bubu\a: Didn't want to pay for a license so didnt go with windows ( Not got spare cash for win7 atm )
<ali1234> i've got no idea, i don't use macs
<diplo> So NetFlix don't get my cash
<aquarius> ali1234, neither do I, which is why I'm asking to see if anyone knows. :)
<ali1234> there was a nice bug where it bricked some macs because of efi
<ali1234> but that was fixed ages ago
<ali1234> tbh i'm not really sure why anyone who actually likes OS X would want to switch to ubuntu
<diplo> Anyone recommend places that sell little units like these, want to compare some places
<diplo> http://www.tranquilpcshop.co.uk/t2i-with-2nd-generation-intel-core-processor/
<aquarius> ali1234, well; he's seen Ubuntu and likes how it looks, and he's interested in trying something new -- he's not a technical person, but he enjoys technology if you see what I mean.
<ali1234> well i can understand that, what with unity being largely copied from OS X
<ali1234> it just doesn't really compare favourably if you've used both
<aquarius> and he's got a strong aesthetic sense (architect, after all), so I want him to experience Ubuntu being beautiful -- because he's not technical, he's hardly heard of it at all, so he's not bringing all the baggage of "oh it's linux it doesn't work", "oh it's linux you have to compile your own kernel", and so on. I think this sort of person is just who we *want* to attract.
<aquarius> ali1234, that's what I want to test. If he uses Ubuntu and everything works perfectly and he still doesn't like it, then I shall say "fine, we're obviously not ready to go after that segment of the market".
<ali1234> why would you want to use linux if you don't want to compile your own kernel?
<aquarius> What I'd like to avoid is it *potentially* being great for him but him being let down because the sound doesn't work, or something equally annoying.
<hamitron> perhaps boot from an external hdd?
<ali1234> well the only way you will find that out is by trying it on his machine first before you let him use it
<hamitron> if the livecd works ofc
<aquarius> ali1234, because it's beautiful and it does everything you want from a computer and the upgrades are free. That's why I use it.
<ali1234> i thought you said you liked to pay for stuff?
<hamitron> that site aquarius linked said that didn't go for software, more for services
<hamitron> :)
<aquarius> If the seller *wants* money, sure. The Ubuntu community don't *have* a way to pay for Ubuntu, because that's not what they want. They get money from sale of services around Ubuntu, which I am happy to pay -- I buy music, I'd pay for U1 if I didn't get it for nothing, I buy things from the shop.
<ali1234> " If they won't do it, clone them and do it yourself.  Soon you'll be the only game in town! "
<aquarius> hamitron, exactly. The point of services is that more users costs the operator more money. The point of software is that that doesn't apply; doubling the number of Ubuntu users does not, at least in theory, double your cost to make Ubuntu.
<ali1234> that's not actually true at all
<hamitron> I still think a software project is best to have some form of income somehow, to fund support and development
<ali1234> more users = more bug reports and support requests
<aquarius> services provided as part of Ubuntu I *do* pay for (or I would for those that I use if they weren't a company benefit).
<ali1234> especially if said users are completely non-technical
<aquarius> hamitron, yep, which is why I donate, and why I support what Bryan Lunduke's doing right now.
<ali1234> i stopped supporting family members windows computers for free. i just say "i dunno, i don't use windows"
<hamitron> tbh, I'd feel happier if I had to pay for ubuntu
<ali1234> if you make it so that they all want me to install ubuntu i will have to switch to *bsd
<hamitron> hehe
<diplo> aquarius: You tried any of Bryans software ?
<ali1234> thing is it doesn't cost canonical anything to do this because they can just point to the support package but it costs the community who provide free support
<aquarius> hamitron, well, one good way to support Ubuntu is to become a paying user of Ubuntu One, of course. :)
<aquarius> diplo, I bought Linux Tycoon fairly recently. I haven't tried the development stuff (I'm happy with my own development environment :))
<hamitron> I don't pay out for things, if others can get it for free
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if I'm paying Â£10, others can too
<aquarius> others *do* too... not sure I'm understanding you?
<diplo> heh, keep debate trying his DE, but haven't yet.. ought to get linux tycoon just to see what it's like and to support the guy, been watching there stuff for years
<hamitron> aquarius, I don't see why some should contribute, when others don't
<hamitron> and it just makes me feel "why bother?"
<diplo> Ooh SpaceX Dragon due to depart tomorrow and splash down
<aquarius> hamitron, I am confused. No-one gets U1 for free (or everyone does, depending on your point of view). There's no them-and-us here?
<diplo> Got me interested in space again
<hamitron> aquarius, I'm talking about ubuntu :)
<aquarius> hamitron, oh, right, gotcha. :)
<kvarley> popey: Got a working image
<hamitron> if I want a service, sure I'll pay for it. but not getting a service to subsidise free software, that many just use for free
<kvarley> popey: Need to try and make it smaller, I want it to fit on a 256 MB card. Currently I don't think it will
<popey> awesome!
<kvarley> Indeed
<aquarius> hamitron, oh, definitely. I certainly don't think that you should think of buying U1 just to subsidise Ubuntu development! Buy U1 because you like U1. :)
<ali1234> it seems counter productive to buy something i don't want in order to support something that i do want which is free
<hamitron> ali1234, exactly
<aquarius> I don't think anyone's suggesting that you do that, are they? If I'm being misread as advocating that, then I'll rephrase. :)
<ali1234> that goes for t-shirts, hats, and over priced memory sticks too
<aquarius> popey, do you have thoughts on the macbook Ubuntu-in-vm-versus-baremetal question? I know you've had some experience here :)
<aquarius> ali1234, I agree. What I bought from the canonical shop was notebooks, because I needed notebooks and I think our ones are really nice. :)
<popey> aquarius: ask gmb
<popey> i no longer have a MBP
<aquarius> popey, aha, wisdom -- yeah, I know you moved away, just wondering what your previous thoughts were :)
<aquarius> gmb, ping!
 * hamitron congrats popey 
<popey> i still love the mbp, but only when it's running osx
<popey> my thoughts where i was never truly happy about it on the bare metal
 * hamitron withdraws his actions
<popey> skippy touchpad, crappy nvidia, poor battery life
<hamitron> they do look nice though
<popey> there's a lot to like
<aquarius> popey, k, that's my worry, indeed. Suggestions above are that Ubuntu doesn't work right in a VM either, so the implication here is that you're just shit out of luck if you've got an MBP and want to try Ubuntu, which rather scuppers my plan
<popey> your plan?
<aquarius> popey, <aquarius> Mac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.
<popey> its fine in a vm
<popey> virtualbox
<ali1234> unity doesn't work in current virtualbox, you get unity-2d instead
<AlanBell> it does work in virtualbox
<davmor2> ali1234: it does if you enable the 3d
<popey> thats not my experience
<ali1234> i have enabled 3d. it still doesn't work
<popey> just install virtualbox-x11-guest package in the guest
<AlanBell> you have to install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
<AlanBell> and check the box
<ali1234> that too
<hamitron> I found unity-3d slow in vmware workstation, with the new drivers
<popey> or a similarly named package âº
<popey> i have it working here
<ali1234> basically you can expect, at the very least, to spend a few hours to a day tweaking it to get it to work
<AlanBell> or it just works
<davmor2> aquarius: I know a couple of devs that have Ubuntu running in vm on macs might not be mbp but they are happy with it
<ali1234> yeah it just works after you install some random packages, reboot, and reconfigure the VM
<ali1234> or, as in my case, it makes no difference at all
<hamitron> isn't the idea of getting a Mac, to have a complete product anyway?
<ali1234> no doubt any problems with bare metal could be resolved with roughly the same amount of effort
<davmor2> ali1234: it works for me , popey and AlanBell I make the suggestion therefore that you missed a step :P
<popey> his friend already has the mac
<popey> so the goal maybe for aquarius to allow his friend to try ubuntu
<hamitron> I guess
<hamitron> :/
<popey> given thats what he just said
<aquarius> hamitron, indeed. He's already got a Mac, and he already uses OS X. I'd like him to try Ubuntu, and he's expressed an interest in doing so, but "spend a thousand pounds on a new computer" is too high a hurdle for him to jump. :)
<ali1234> lol mac users think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal
<hamitron> I can relate to that, been someone who hates spending money ;D
<aquarius> *I* think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal.
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> that better include a Â£600 monitor
<hamitron> tbh, I'll spend upto Â£1600 still
<hamitron> but it sure as hell better last at least 10 years ;D
<popey> my latest computer setup was over 1000
<popey> 700 for the laptop, and about 150 for the dock and 150 for the screen
<aquarius> because I buy a computer for three years. I spend, roughly, twelve hours a day in front of it. That works out at a pound a day, in order to make my 12 hours be lovely rather than at best OK. That, to me, is a *superb* investment.
<ali1234> so it does incude a Â£600 monitor then?
<davmor2> my last laptop was 350 and my last pc update was 160 am I doing it all wrong?
 * TheOpenSourcerer haz new phone :-)
<aquarius> Someone who does some light photography would happily spend three or four hundred quid on a camera which they'll use once a week. I use my computer more than anything at all in my life other than my hands and cigarettes. I want it to be excellent.
<aquarius> davmor2, if that does everything you want, not at all; you're fine :)
<hamitron> hmmm, I bet coffee is more expensive per hour, than my comp..... thinking about it :/
<aquarius> I wanted a machine which had great battery life and was very light and was very thin and looked beautiful in my opinion and ran Ubuntu. So I bought my machine, which cost nine hundred. Like I say, I think that's a worthwhile investment.
<ali1234> oh
<davmor2> aquarius: mind you I might treat myself to a new monitor that is nearly as expensive as my last pc upgrade :D
<ali1234> you bought a desktop replacement laptop?
<aquarius> davmor2, I've heard lots of people saying that buying a really good monitor is also a worthwhile investment. Mine was pretty cheap, and it's only 21"
<aquarius> ali1234, I only have one machine, indeed; just the laptop.
<AlanBell> my current laptop is the cheapest I have ever had at Â£350 ish, plus Â£40 for 8GB ram and Â£200 or so for an SSD, and I use a Â£150ish monitor with it
<popey> oh, yeah, ssd, 200 quid
<popey> mouse and keyboard free! :D
<aquarius> back to the Mac thing: if we're of the collective opinion that the Ubuntu experience on an MBP isn't nice enough for non-technical people yet (it takes too much configuration, or it doesn't quite work right, or the hardware isn't well supported) then I am fine with that conclusion: I am happy to say to my mate that it's not ready for him yet. I'd *rather* do that than say "it is ready" and have it be crap for him,
<aquarius> because then I'll have burned him and it'll be much harder to win him back later.
<ali1234> it's like that everywhere
<aquarius> but I do not know enough about this to answer that question, hence asking you guys because you're all clever. :P
<ali1234> if you've been spoiled by a mac you're not going to get along with ubuntu
<ali1234> basically unless they buy a computer with ubuntu preinstalled, it's not going to be easy enough for a typical mac user
<AlanBell> not sure I agree with that
<ali1234> if otoh you can make it through the installer and know how to use google, all the problems are trivial.. but the same can be said of any linux distro
<hamitron> I agree with the point about not tainting their view on ubuntu with a poor experience, but dunno otherwise
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> as i said, the only way you'll actually know is if you try it out. because there's almost as many different mac hardware configurations as there are PCs
<popey> oooh, i see a postal delivery van with my pi on it outside
 * popey skips to the door
 * hamitron grumbles
<diplo> I want to upgrade SQLite on a old os, anyway of checking what might be dependant on it software wise ?
<aquarius> if *I* could borrow his machine for a weekend and try it, I would, but I can't :)
<aquarius> diplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite (if you're upgrading sqlite v2).
<hamitron> aquarius, I'd personally get him to boot off an external hdd
<TheOpenSourcerer> I got a Galaxy S3 from the delivery van a short while ago. And a Galaxy 10.1 Tab too.
<ali1234> actually i have two things i want to add
<ali1234> firstly if you're waiting for it to be perfect you'll be waiting a long time
<hamitron> then no harm if he doesn't like it
<aquarius> diplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite3 if you're on sqlite v3 already (but then it is very unlikely that an upgrade will break anything because it's a minor upgrade only)
<aquarius> hamitron, that's why I was wondering about VMs.
<ali1234> secondly, is the type of person who will throw a fit and never use ubuntu again at the very first problem, really the type of person you want to attract in the first place?
<diplo> aquarius: I built the packages so I could break everything :D
<diplo> But thanks, will look now
<aquarius> diplo, oh. You're on your own, in that case. Soz ;-)
<diplo> heh, Just covering my arse in backups is all
<diplo> Want to make sure I can reinstall anything I break
<diplo> If I break*
 * hamitron would just backup *everything*
<ali1234> diplo: you could do a global search for sqlite databases, then try to determine which software each belongs to :)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I expect a full review of the samsung galaxy s3 by end of day with no less than a 1000 words ;)  It's great just won't cut it :)
 * diplo doesn't have disc space
<hamitron> :/
<diplo> I did think that ali1234
<ali1234> something like find / -exec file {}\; | grep sqlite
<ali1234> then wait a *really* long time
<ali1234> then lsof etc
<diplo> do all Sqlite db's have to end in .db ?
<diplo> Or just a preference
 * diplo never touched SQLite till yesterday
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Nope. Not enough time. After I've used it for a few weeks I might get round to it, but it wouldn't be fair IMHO to review it without actually using it for a while.
<popey> I am inclined to think that an osx user will not think ubuntu is a step up, yet.
<popey> especially on mac hardware
<popey> however on a pc, they might
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: hahahahaha enjoy
<popey> i have a friend who has only macs in the house, she wanted a netbook for her daughter, but refuses to have windows
<ali1234> diplo: no
<popey> i installed ubuntu on it, works a treat
<hamitron> time for tea and cakes
<czajkowski> CAKE!
<davmor2> czajkowski: calm down it's only and advert
<czajkowski> need cak e
 * AlanBell needs sleep
<AlanBell> and cake
<dwatkins> beware of cake... ;)
<diplo> yum /me also needs sleep
<diplo> arse!
<kirrus> Now i'd quite like cake..
<diplo> But I have promised to go on a 20 mile bike ride in 50mins :(
 * kirrus wonders where the nearest decent cake dispensery is
<dwatkins> diplo: I often see people use /me either in the middle of a line or in systems which don't support it, I didn't even notice it might be anything other than normal in your line
<dwatkins> I have to cycle home, not really got a lot of choice about it. It's 5 miles.
<diplo> dwatkins: I have to cycle home first as well, just shy of 5 miles
<diplo> Then 20 mile bike ride, also did a 10 mile pub walk last night and a mile each way on my bike
<diplo> For me this is fitness++
<diplo> I'm normally hogging the sofa
<diplo> :)
<dwatkins> Yeah, I know what you mean - I'm cycling to work to a) save money and b) get fit
<dwatkins> I ordered an xbox game yesterday, which I'll have to cycle for two weeks to afford, in a sense.
<dwatkins> (each day cycled saves me about 1.40 GBP in diesel)
<dwatkins> this doesn't take wear-and-tear on the car into account, of course.
<diplo> I've not worked mine out, just decided that the tanks been kinda empty recently and it's lovely whether so I ought to make the most of it, downside is I'm making up for Calories burnt by drinking beer on these rides
<diplo> :P
<dwatkins> yeah, I tend to get home from cycling to and from work and get a couple beers on the way.
<diplo> Right, talking of home \o/
<diplo> Let's not think about the cycling part
<Azelphur> O.O we just had some epic monster monsoon, hail everywhere, took a tile off our roof
<andylockran> vdfgsdhowdy
<andylockran> where's that Azelphur
<Azelphur> andylockran: margate
<andylockran> sat in Manchester Piccadilly and the weather outside is gorgeous
<andylockran> heading down to Euston on the 18.35
<andylockran> I miss Manchester a little bit
<BigRedS> dwatkins: nor the cost spent on the bike, though :)
<BigRedS> I used to love seeing people start cycling in marchish to save money, and notice it becoming a horrendously expsnsive hobby for them come july
<Azelphur> I literally sprinted across the street to get back to my house and close the window (Was at neighbours) and by the time I made it across the street I was completely soaked through and through
<Azelphur> just for crossing the road, lol
<Azelphur> my computers next to the window so have to close it when it rains :p
<oimon> to join my union costs Â£18 per month LOL
<oimon> what a rip off
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/207871270493229056/photo/1 remains of my roof xD
<davmor2> MooDoo: there is and amd64 app being released to USC that is early in the release process that you might be interested in called "black silk"  as soon as it is published I'll let you know
<popey> sounds rude
<davmor2> popey: no it just makes black and white photography out of colour ones really nicely
 * AlanBell wonders why "black silk" would be potentially rude
<AlanBell> maybe I lack imagination
<dwatkins> BigRedS: true, but I had the bike anyway ;) I'm planning on getting a new one once I start cycling regularly, however.
<dwatkins> BigRedS: why did it get expensive in summer?
<BigRedS> dwatkins: it just takes a few months for it to go from tool-for-commuting-on to expensive-hobby
<BigRedS> and it's normally spring when people start riding again
<dwatkins> ah I see, BigRedS - I'm already pondering how much I should spend, what kind of disc brakes, etc. so I guess I'm a good example of that :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah - where are you commuting? Disk brakes don't like cities
<BigRedS> when you get oil on disk brake pads they stop working so well. We used to find (in London) that this equated to a few month's commuting in London air....
<dwatkins> oh wow, I see
<dwatkins> I live in Edinburgh, and most of my commute is along the canal.
<dwatkins> I wonder how London affects non-disc brakes - friend of mine is living and studying there.
<MartijnVdS> magnetic brakes!
<kvarley> popey: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/ - The .img of OpenELEC with XBMC is up there now hosted on  Ubuntu One =]
<popey> sweeeet!
<popey> I'm building ubuntu packages for my pi now
<MartijnVdS> pibuntu?
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how Unity performs on it
<BigRedS> dwatkins: not so bad in summer. Can get through a set of pads in a few day's rain though
<BigRedS> there really are several good reasons for the rise in popularity of fixies
<popey> dount it will at all
<popey> only 256MB RAM
<MartijnVdS> popey: it has 3d acceleration
<dwatkins> BigRedS: wow, didn't realise they could wear down so fast
<popey> not sure I have enough lifetimes to compile unity for it :D
<dwatkins> popey: I'd be surprised if it were powerful, sadly
<MartijnVdS> popey: your children can continue the good work
<dwatkins> *powerful enough
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, cross-compiling
<dwatkins> You can cross-compile for the RaspPi, though.
<popey> i am
<popey> on two i7s
<kvarley> popey: POWERRRRRR
<dwatkins> nice
<MartijnVdS> -j16
<dwatkins> I have a core i7 in my laptop at work, the OS sees 8 cores. I'm ashamed that I just use it for reading e-mails and browsing the web mostly, so I run vmware on it sometimes to make sure it doesn't get bored.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they give us ridiculously overpowered machines like that as well
<MartijnVdS> while we do all of our work on one of the 32-core 128GB servers in the DC
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ssh -X + gvim
 * dwatkins grins
<dwatkins> I used to work with clusters, ones which fill a sizeable room and have a couple petabytes of storage on the back row - they share them out to universities and chemical/oil companies, though
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the end of that wish you were here, docu, is very sad, we knew it, but they never said.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: The Syd Barrett story?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I watched http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j2fcq yesterday
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the wish you were here, how they descibed syd at the end.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is well documented, that syd came to hear them record wish you were here album, but not said in the way they there.
<brobostigon> said*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I didn't see it :|
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :(, you pointed me at it, as i forgot.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah but it was on very late.. and somehow my "record satellite" script broke
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :( not good.
<MartijnVdS> I fixed it now, but too late
<MartijnVdS> reboot had shuffled around DVB device numbers
<MartijnVdS> (DVB-T, DVB-S)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, it was very emotional,
<MartijnVdS> so it tried to record from DVB-T 8-)
<brobostigon> ah.
<ahayzen> Question: Hi, I've been using unity with autohide set to ON. I just brought up the HUD and you get a ~3px wide line down the left side (looks like the dash border) - I guess because the launcher isn't there the border is overflowing into the desktop. Is that supposed to happen or should I report a bug? Thanks, Andy
<jacobw> i'm really liking unity in 12.04 :)
<jacobw> <bill hicks>a positive unity story!</bill hicks>
<popey> jacobw: thats good to hear
<MartijnVdS> it's not getting in my way at least :P
<MartijnVdS> well the HUD is, but that's disableable
<MartijnVdS> (nice word, disableable)
<AlanBell> easily turn on and offable
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes, like that :)
<directhex> wharrgarbl
<brobostigon> directhex: what is your opinion on qnx.?
<directhex> brobostigon, covered in bees
<brobostigon> directhex: that is illogical,
<brobostigon> software cannot be covered in bees.
<directhex> clearly you've never seen an embedded arm vendor's kernel patches
<directhex> bees as far as the eye can see
<ali1234> heheheh
<brobostigon> directhex: i have not, no.
<ali1234> think yourself lucky to even get patches
<dwatkins> directhex: sounds like a reference to Invader Zim (covered in bees)
<shauno> eddie izzard surely?
<brobostigon> directhex: ok, what about blackberry's qnx implementation, ?
<dwatkins> ah, didn't know that
<dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo explains all about this 'covered in bees' reference :)
<directhex> brobostigon, ultimately qnx is a decent RTOS, but i'm confused as to why you'd use an RTOS on a mobile phone, and RIM is in freefall so i'm not sure their OS has much life left. BBX needed to happen several years earlier
<directhex> is it even shipping on phones yet, or just the playbook?
<penguin42> dwatkins: I was assuming it was a reference to blackberreees
<dwatkins> penguin42: ahhhh
<brobostigon> directhex: from what i have read, and as they advertise, os10, will appear on the playbook.
<directhex> brobostigon, but the playbook was a failure out of the door. and blackberry os, on phones, is junk. so what do we have?
<brobostigon> directhex: why was the playbook a failiure. it seems like fairly good hw from my view.
<brobostigon> directhex: aswell, as from what i have read, wihtin their qnx implementation,  alot of things have been fixed.
<directhex> brobostigon, nobody bought them, even when they halved the price?
<directhex> and RIM shares are tumbling
<brobostigon> directhex: very true, yes.but i was wondering as to the hw, and their qnx implementation. than the rest of the company.
<directhex> fine, then
<directhex> good Qt platform
<brobostigon> yes.
<directhex> well, the qt hackers i know say it's a good qt platform, anyway
<directhex> good enough that they're dumping the android layer in favour of native qt apps
<brobostigon> intereting.
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> directhex: i am thinking about my own birthday pressie to myself, a new toy, or an acoustic drum kit.
<MartijnVdS> your neighbors will love you :P
<brobostigon> yeah, :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but they do already, with the bass tube i have,
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my dad drove up once, and he said, and i quote, he could hear it, before he stepped out of the car.
<directhex> brobostigon, hear it, or feel the vibrations in his kidneys? :p
<brobostigon> directhex: yeah.
<dogmatic69> anyone have creative ideas for running cat5 from the lounge (ground floor) to the loft (2nd story)
<directhex> dogmatic69, drill a hole in the ceiling?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: 16mm pipe?
<dogmatic69> directhex: its like a foot of concrete i think
<MartijnVdS> (PVC)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: what do I do with the pipe then?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: good point
 * dogmatic69 bought outside-duty cat5
<MartijnVdS> We used to stick ethernet cable next to the central heating pipes back home
<dogmatic69> was thinking of running it up the wall out side
<ali1234> there's a foot of concrete between the ground floor and the loft?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: that will slow down my downloads... :P
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like a normal house to me
<directhex> dogmatic69,  http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/6999689228_fc7c5a0093_o_d.jpg
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: how?
<ali1234> do you live in a nuclear bunker?
<dogmatic69> ali1234: no, first and ground
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no central heating then?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: when stuff is cold, its more dense. travels faster. (marginal i know)
<dogmatic69> :P
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: so run coolant though the pipes
<MartijnVdS> who needs heat when you have a 500W PC :P
<dogmatic69> GF <3's central heating... it can be 25'C and its on
<dogmatic69> *750w + 2 blade servers :)
<dogmatic69> Don't even have a ladder that can reach for attaching the cat5 outside.
<MartijnVdS> however, ladders like that do exist and are for sale
<MartijnVdS> or scissor lifts, for rent
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: ethernet over power or wifi?
<AlanBell> wifi with wires at both ends perhaps
<MartijnVdS> I have a 30cm wall
<MartijnVdS> just got a huge drill and made a hole for 4x cat5
<MartijnVdS> cat5e really
<MartijnVdS> this is 1969 concrete so it's quite hard too
<dogmatic69> I am trying to get away from wifi. My office is on the first floor and does not get good signal, and its about 20 feet max away.
<dogmatic69> I got a extender and that does not work too good either
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://www.wikihow.com/Drill-Into-Concrete
<dogmatic69> also I am mounting things from the blades (also on wifi atm) and when the signal drops my desktop will almost crash
<popey> i put my access point in the middle of the house
<popey> and it's plugged into an ethernet-over-power device with another connected in my office to the internet box
<popey> job done, wifi coverage over the whole house
<directhex> sleeeepy
 * MartijnVdS has a small house, so an AP anywhere gives enough coverage
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> especially on 5GHz, where I'm the first ;)
<popey> i dont have a big house, its just my main access point is in the very corner, opposite to the bedroom âº
<popey> you can sometimes _just_ get a signal
<MartijnVdS> popey: get a higher-power AP :)
 * MartijnVdS has a Linksys E3200
<popey> oh I'm fine now with my netgear wndr3700 + ddwrt
<dogmatic69> one big problem is sky.
<dogmatic69> complete rubbish
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: come to nl.. we have good ISPs
<popey> \o/ virgin
<dogmatic69> Called sky to cancel 2 months ago...
<dogmatic69> waiting for some number in the post
<Azelphur> random question, how on earth can it hail when the temperature outside is as warm as it is o.O
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: the hail is not formed on the ground :)
<Azelphur> I guess, the temperature difference between ground and air must have been insane
<dogmatic69> the warmth might actually help it
<Azelphur> yea, maybe that's why the weather went so nuts
<dogmatic69> hail forms when drops freeze, hit warm air and rise again. repeat until to large to float any more
<Azelphur> ah, that'd explain it then :)
<dogmatic69> I'm no meteorologist but enjoyed geography at school
<dogmatic69> wiki says the ideal temp is -13'C up to, so almost 50'C difference
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I guess we had a bit of a perfect storm then, all the ice built up and came down at the same time
<davmor2> gord: no co-working space tomorrow, by the sound of it it's only me going to be there
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-31
 * Knightwise is back
<Knightwise> hey Bollinger
<Knightwise> how are you today
<diplo> Morning all
<kvarley> diplo: Hi
<kvarley> Hmmm
<kvarley> This can't be right
<kvarley> Compressing 375mb of data into a zip file gives me an output size of 37.9 MB
<kvarley> Seems to be, weird
<kirrus> kvarley: if the data is just text, yeah, you can see that
<kirrus> I often see 98% compression on log files
<kvarley> kirrus: It's an img file. But to be fair I think there is a considerable amount of space left on the partitions
<kvarley> Ah yeah over 100mb of free space
<kvarley> I started out trying to make the image as small as possible but I ended up realising that if anybody installed 1 program it could fill their partitions up
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> kvarley: the debian and fedora images on first boot will resize up the root filesystem and then reboot into it
<bigcalm_laptop> BOO!
<popey> boo indeed
<Knightwise> hey popey
<Knightwise> great podcast this week
<Knightwise> good item about uds and stuff
<daubers> rule number 1 of anything: letting agencies should be shot
<Knightwise> hey daubers how are you
<daubers> Knightwise: On a murderous rampage
<daubers> How're you?
<kirrus> daubers: I'd agree with that sometimes
<kirrus> daubers: what've they done to you?
<daubers> kirrus: We had no water last night at all, and still don't. They couldn't call out a plumber because the company they pay to do that hasn't been paid, so wouldn't
<mattt> daubers: thought you bought a place?
<daubers> all because the builders they've got working in the flat downstairs and are idiots
<daubers> mattt: Move on saturday (thank god)
<Knightwise> daubers: i'll be wearing my bullet proof vest
<mattt> daubers: ah damn, bad timing :(
<mattt> Knightwise: please tell me you don't drive a little green mini
<Knightwise> mattt: me ? no ! :) I drive a black focus with a giant autobot logo on the rear window
<mattt> :P
<mattt> Knightwise: got thrown by your 'i'll be wearing a bullet proof vest' comment :D
<Knightwise> i just said that cuz daubers is on the edge of turning into michael douglads in "falling down"
<daubers> memo to self: if not heard anything in next 50 minutes, ring them back _again_
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<mattt> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> There appears to be something wet falling from the sky. :-/
<Knightwise> hmm.. installed PPC Lubuntu on my G4 imac
<Knightwise> its pretty ok , but I do think i might go and give PPC debian a try to
<Knightwise> its supposed to be lighter then ubuntu ?
<bigcalm_laptop> Touring time! Toodles :)
 * daubers puts the coffee on
<kvarley> popey: Really? Last time I used the debian image I had to manually resize them myself. The Fedora image did resize correctly though =]
<popey> pretty sure it did, i used it recently
 * Knightwise gets TEA, earl grey , HOT from the replicator
<kvarley> popey: Hmm, will have to try it again.
<daubers> ARGHHHHHH
<daubers> Do people not understand that lying through their teeth just makes people more angry
<daubers> And trying to blame other people who are obviously not at fault is just pathetic!
<daubers> NEVER EVER RENT
<mattt> haha
<mattt> yes, never ever rent
 * mattt looks crazily at daubers
<daubers> Also, Romans in Reading are an absolute bunch of idiots who couldn't be trusted to find their own hands
<popey> s/Romans/estate agents/
<popey> s/Reading/any town/
<mattt> yeah, they're dodgy :(
<mattt> rolfe east in ealing, put them on your list too
<daubers> "Oh, you having no water is Thames Wateres problem" "Even though the rest of the building has water?" "Uh.... yes?"
<daubers> idiots
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon
<Knightwise> hey diplo
<brobostigon> hey Knightwise
<diplo> Morning, issues with dns for me this morning :) Seems to have resolved itself though
<diplo> How are we all this not so fine morning
<s-fox> Hello.
<mattt> diplo: good, enjoying the cooler weather
 * mattt ducks
 * brobostigon agrees with mattt , but hopes for some sun.
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I've been out cycling/walking, done about 70 miles in last 2 weeks
<diplo> And from being a couch potato for the last 6 months that is quite an achievment, but if the rains start i don't think i've got oomph to get out there in it :D
<mattt> diplo: true, i've done a bit of walking myself these past few weeks
<mattt> you can get a great view from walbury hill if it's a clear day
<diplo> And dragon is released, see if it burns up on re-entry now
<kirrus> diplo: oo.. gotta link?
<kirrus> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/31/us-usa-spaceship-idUKBRE84H0XM20120531 :)
<diplo> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
<diplo> Sorry was working :( - Unusual for me
<davmor2> Morning all
<s-fox> Hello davmor2
<davmor2> morning s-fox
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: god day to you
<czajkowski> has anyone gotten the eurostar to disneyland paris ?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I've done Eurostar to London from Brussels
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: and I know people who've don Thalys from Amsterdam to Disneyland
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: anything specific you want to know?
<czajkowski> found it eventually via google
<czajkowski> how far away from the hotel I'm going to to the train staion
<mattt> czajkowski: my wife has i believe, can ask her if you have questions
<mattt> she stayed in some chalet type things just outside of disneyland (world?)
<czajkowski> we're going to the new york disney hotel
<czajkowski> should be a bit of fun, for my sisters 30th
<mattt> czajkowski: just remember, whatever happens in disneyland stays in disneyland
<czajkowski> heh
<oimon> Knightwise, i put debian ppc on my imac
<oimon> works nice
<oimon> didn't realise there was a recent build of lubuntu ppc though
<MooDoo> s-fox: yay congrats
<s-fox> Thank you MooDoo  :)
<davmor2> mattt: this is czajkowski we are on about she'll publish photographic evidence of everything that goes on at disney she can't help herself :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: roaming :)
<czajkowski> so you're safe
<davmor2> czajkowski: doesn't mean there won't be photo's you'll auto publish when you get home instead :D
<czajkowski> we'll see
<Knightwise> back
<penguin42> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html Matthew Garett's article on secure boot support for Fedora - an interesting problem
<penguin42> r
<AlanBell> yeah, read that earlier
<AlanBell> suspect ubuntu will have to do the same
<penguin42> I wonder what % of boards will actually have the option of disabling it
<AlanBell> 100% of intel boards, 0% of ARM boards
<penguin42> AlanBell: Did it say 100% of intel boards had to have the option - or could have the option?
<AlanBell> it is in the first paragraph of the article :)
<penguin42> ah yes, it does say required - ok
<penguin42> I mean after all, you have to be able to boot DOS
<daubers> Wonder how ARM and Intel feel about that
<daubers> could distort the marketplace somewhat
<mattt> anyone seen this?  http://datajournalismhandbook.org/
<mattt> pretty interesting read
<AlanBell> a galaxy tab is being unboxed
<czajkowski> AlanBell: dont drop it
<AlanBell> I don't drop things, I forget where I put them
 * penguin42 wonders if Samsung have a cat called Orion
 * daubers wonders how well the Pi handles webgl
 * popey expects "badly"
<popey> got a url I can try on one?
<ali1234> i do... hang on
<popey> dunno if the debian I am using had hardware 3d enabled
<shauno> from not much playing around with mine, it feels like the SD card is a huge bottleneck :/
<popey> yeah, people seem to be suggesting putting root on a usb drive
<popey> in fact, i doubt this web browser even supports webgl
<ali1234> http://scoopex1988.org/released/prods/2012/RadioTherapy/
<popey> google maps is taking an age to load
<popey> i dont think midori does webgl
<daubers> hmmm
<popey> I'd like to try a hard disk with the pi but i dont have a powered external enclosure
<AlanBell> I do
<ali1234> http://clysuva.com/another_spring/
<AlanBell> I will give it a try later
<popey> kinda defeats the point of the pi, adding loads of expensive bits to it
<AlanBell> it does a bit
<AlanBell> well, more to the point, trying to squeeze performance out of it is a waste of effort
<AlanBell> if you wanted performance, you have started in the wrong place
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> there are perfectly valid use-cases that don't have a performance requirement
 * s-fox has one :)
<ali1234> more web demos: http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform[]=JavaScript
<daubers> Is there a chrome build for the pi?
<daubers> (or firefox at least)
<ali1234> there's iceweasel
<daubers> does the latest iceweasel do webGL :)
<ali1234> i dunno
<daubers> apparently icecat does
<oimon> hmm..adding printer in ubuntu: Network printer detection needs services mdns, ipp, ipp-client and samba-client enabled on firewall.
<ali1234> outgoing, yes
<ali1234> but, you don't need to add a printer with the automatic tool
<ali1234> and those things are enabled by default
<oimon> it looks like gnome classic gives you a non working print dialog
<ali1234> it's exactly the same
<oimon> well it seems broken
<ali1234> works for me...
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that's because printing is bad for the environment
<ali1234> the message is just a warning
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/57ciwNGGOOZ2F0nwsgx64Q
<oimon> the modern printer settings is broken, the old school system-config-printer works
<arsen> anyone do any work with real time kernels?
<davmor2> arsen: you want the ubuntustudio guys for that
<arsen> ok, just wondering if anyone has experience of it
<arsen> thanks :)
<ali1234> this problem reporting tool is getting a bit silly
<ali1234> every time i segfault any program it pops about 3 error reports and even if i click "no" on all of them it still seems to try to submit them
<ali1234> i doubt the reports will be useful since i caused the crash by patching fopen()
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Review of FLOSSIE 2012 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/05/31/review-of-flossie-2012/
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> yo
<dogmatic69> o/
<cocoa117> is there way to stop a service start up on system start up?
<dogmatic69> remove it from startup
<cocoa117> dogmatic69, where is the config file sitting?
<diplo> cocoa117: Server or desktop
<diplo> ?
<diplo> And what release of ubuntu ?
<diplo> If desktop can get to Startup applications from the Cog in the top right
<diplo> If it's serverhttp://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/update-rc.d.8.html
<diplo> Right, gn all
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello peeps :)
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> We visited the Titanic museum today. Gave me a terrible sinking feeling
<czajkowski> for all your mine craft fans http://thechive.com/2012/05/31/a-very-minecraft-wedding-34-photos/
<penguin42> the temperature swings in the UK are nuts - 2 or 3 days ago I was stupidly hot - today the heating is on
<Oli> Probably mentioned already but have you seen the latest Humble Bundle?!
<popey> ya
<Oli> Includes Amnesia, Psychonauts, Limbo, Bastion and Superbrothers. No idea about the last but for the love of god, if you've never played Psychonauts before I rate it as one of the best games I've ever, ever played.
<popey> also integrates with ubuntu software centre
<popey> âº
<Oli> OMG*heartattack*
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/208243672632930308/photo/1
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/208244847742693376/photo/1
<gord> hum, no limbo on 64 bit?
<gord> the humble bundles are a great idea, but i don't think i'll get this one, i already own the games and don't really want to pay money given the quality of the linux ports the last time round... which was not good =\
<Oli> The last time it was a bunch of AIR/Flash games... I'm not sure you can really blame them for the quality of Adobe's runtimes.
<gord> the last bundle? i don't think it was
<gord> last one didn't have any air/flash games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humble_Indie_Bundle#Humble_Indie_Bundle_4
<gord> cave story+ was completely broken, stuck in a debug mode where you couldn't get hurt...
<Oli> Well.. the last thing they released... It was the Botanicula bundle thingermery.
<Oli> Technically worked but it was like pulling teeth.
<gord> they should work better now they are in software centre, right davmor2? ;)
<popey> hehe
<popey> when you can install them
<popey> oh, its arrived now
<davmor2> gord: the ones that I have tried have all worked
<dogmatic69> can anyone recommend a nice easy image editing app, eg resize / crop etc. Something between ms paint and gimp
<dogmatic69> Not fond of the hoops you have to go through to save a file in the new gimp, takes longer than it does to modify the file.
<davmor2> popey, gord: I can recommend limbo (if your hw is up to it) and amnesia
<popey> dogmatic69: hoops?
<gord> yeah i have them both, amnesia is great, i can't beat it though because scary
<dogmatic69> popey: you can not just open a file, edit, ctrl+s exit. it is now open, edit, export (cant save as .png etc), click ok, confirm overwrite, configure compression, save
<popey> you cant "save as"?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> file -> export
<dogmatic69> ctrl+shift+e
<popey> what version of gimp?
<popey> 2.8?
<dogmatic69> the latest
 * popey has 2.6.12
<dogmatic69> I complained about it, and was told 'your work flow is too simple'
<dogmatic69> so basically gimp is no longer for average users
<popey> golly
<popey> thats all i ever do with it
<popey> open image, edit a bit, save it
<AlanBell> me too
<AlanBell> what happens if you open an image, do something, hit ctrl+s?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: it pops up file.xcf save dialogue
<dogmatic69> The argument is that 'a lot of people save .png by accident and cant later edit them'
<dogmatic69> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/
<dogmatic69> broken
<popey> yeah
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> \o/ google cache
<dogmatic69> trying fotoxx, will report back with findings
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Humble Indie Bundle in Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/31/humble-indie-bundle-in-ubuntu/
<ali1234> dogmatic69: the export feature works very well actually
<ali1234> it does exactly what you are asking for
<ali1234> whoever told you it doesn't is "too simple"
<dogmatic69> ali1234: no it does not, if I open an existing file I do not want to be asked if I am sure about overwriting it every time, nor set the compression every time.
<dogmatic69> this new export thing takes 2 or 3x longer to save than to modify the image, I have 100+ images to modify
<ali1234> there is a menu option to directly save the image with the same settings
<dogmatic69> where?
<ali1234> in the file menu
<ali1234> it does exactly what save used to do
<dogmatic69> file -> 'overwrite xyz.png' ?
<ali1234> yes
<dogmatic69> still asks about compression
<dogmatic69> also, no shortcut key
<ali1234> the old way did too
<dogmatic69> no it did not
<dogmatic69> ctrl+s saved, end of.
<dogmatic69> it only asked if you changed .ext
 * dogmatic69 is writing a imagemagic script to do it now
<popey> Evening all
<buzz_> captain popey
<popey> Monsignor buzz_
<buzz_> :)
<Azelphur> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/30/powerful-flame-cyberweapon-tied-to-powerfully-angry-birds/ lmfao at fox
<Azelphur> âBut once you know the email address or computer IP address â¦ they can introduce Flame remotely.â xD
<AlanBell> oh wow
<AlanBell> that is quite some FUD in that writeup
<Azelphur> indeed
<shauno> Just when you thought Faux couldn't possibly be as bad as their reputation
<AlanBell> and the virus is 'tied' to angry birds because it might have been written in the same language!
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> you've gotta wonder if the consultant they hired is an utter moron or if Fox just glamorised the crap outta it and put his name on it
<popey> what what what
<AlanBell> !info libquvi-scripts
<lubotu3> libquvi-scripts (source: libquvi-scripts): library for parsing video download links (Lua scripts). In component main, is extra. Version 0.4.2-1 (precise), package size 30 kB, installed size 231 kB
<popey> oh, fox
<Azelphur> indeed, fox xD
<AlanBell> in libquvi there is a foxnews.lua
<Azelphur> oh nose, fox is a virus
<Monotoko> hey guys... not sure if this is a Ubuntu issue or what, but my Ubuntu install doesn't appear to be able to connect a certain site any more even though I'm certain it's up
<Azelphur> what site?
<Monotoko> I'm just after some legal music, I bought the CD but it can't be read any more... but The Pirate Bay
<Azelphur> thepiratebay got blocked by most ISPs in this country
<Monotoko> what? When? :S
<Monotoko> I downloaded a Ubuntu ISO from it yesterday...
<Azelphur> a few weeks ago
<Monotoko> -.-
<Azelphur> but smaller ISPs have been taking longer to adopt
<ali1234> don't download ubuntu from pirate bay, jeez
<Azelphur> Monotoko: http://tpb.pirateparty.org.uk/ protip.
<Monotoko> ali1234, it was 8.04.. I needed it for an anicent machine that isn't connected to the net
<Monotoko> seems none of the official repos have it any more
<Azelphur> UK Pirate party mirrored TPB when it got blocked XD
<Monotoko> well.. that was easy, thank you Azelphur :p
<penguin42> Monotoko: I'd do an md5sum and check that against a signed source to check you've not got something tampered with!
<ali1234> Monotoko: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04.4/release/
<Azelphur> indeed, also welcome to censorship state
<Monotoko> penguin42, already have... and I wasn't aware we were becoming China
<Monotoko> ali1234, thank you... I did look, but couldn't find it >..
<Azelphur> Monotoko: they blocked newzbin too, btw
<popey> but not giganews :D
<Azelphur> and yea, pretty much welcome to China xD
<Azelphur> they are going after porn now fyi
<ali1234> actually that only has the dvd image. i wonder why.
<penguin42> Monotoko: I believe someone said something like if you want to copy stuff freely go to china, if you want to discuss politics get out of china; but it's exactly the same principal
<Monotoko> why do private parties get to decide what we can access? :S
<Monotoko> that's whats confusing me...
<popey> they didnt decide
<popey> they're complying with the law
<penguin42> Monotoko: To be fare they didn't - the courts did
<Azelphur> Monotoko: it was all done behind the scenes in court, so basically one day everybody woke up and it was blocked.
<Monotoko> hmmm... ahhh well, it's been kept under the radar from me! Now.. I've always thought this was legal, but downloading something that you have already bought and lost is legal, right?
<popey> no
<popey> and especially not torrenting
<popey> because not only are you downloading, you're sharing
<popey> which is actually the law they get you on
<ali1234> it doesn't matter how much illegal it is
<Monotoko> >.> it should be really... or at least give me somewhere to digitally download a CD I buy
<Azelphur> If you don't seed it's still legally grey, RIAA are very anti backup, basically anything that doesn't force you to spend money with them is illegal in their eyes
<popey> its not legally grey at all.
<popey> thats what people say when they try to justify it
<Azelphur> At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you do, illegal or not, if the RIAA comes after you they have bribes all over the place and they will win regardless of the law :p
<popey> same thing people used to say about MAME ROMS and "Abandonware"
<ali1234> if it was legal there would be no need to justify it
<popey> +1
<ali1234> you can't agree with me it isn't allowed
<popey> I didn't agree.
<Azelphur> lol
 * Monotoko may have downloaded a few abondonware products over the years... but only because he can't find it through other means
<ali1234> that's ok then
<MartijnVdS> abandonwarez
<Azelphur> Monotoko: everybody in here knows I'm a self admitted pirate :p
<popey> YARRRR!
<popey> (hate that phrase)
<Azelphur> yarr indeed
<popey> (pirate)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yeah you have the hook hand and an eyepatch right?
 * penguin42 has more sympathy with the abandonware stuff - it's technically illegal but it's not benefiting anyone from it being
<popey> well, it does
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I should buy them, take a photo, and link it every time people talk about piracy
<popey> years later when the companies re-release it on new platforms
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: if only they offered it in the Software Centre (wrapped in dosbox)
<popey> they relicense it to companies that make emulators for ipad/iphone/android
<Monotoko> penguin42, surely it's the same for dead artists? The only people it's really benefiting is the already rich companies >.>
<popey> and they'll keep doing it, it keeps making money long after the original cassette was made
<penguin42> popey: Well I meant really abandoned ware - stuff which came from dead companies etc
<MartijnVdS> popey: or they GPL it and port it to SDL
<MartijnVdS> popey: sopwith - port of the 1980's side-scrolling WWI dogfighting game
<popey> penguin42: sure, but it often still gets picked up
<popey> I know what you're saying, not trying to be argumentative :D
<popey> thats ali1234's job
<Monotoko> sorry... didn't mean to start an argument :P
<popey> âº
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes it's easier to download an "Abandonware" game than to install a floppy drive in a modern PC and play it that way ;)
<penguin42> popey: It's like some of the ROMS for 8 bit machines, no one really knows who owns them anymore, and none of the companies can be arsed releasing them etc
<Monotoko> just wondering how the hell they got such a huge site blocked with virtuually no news
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: heck, I've had that problems with DVD's because of the DRM
<popey> yeah, its a shame
<popey> Monotoko: it was all over the news âº
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I was at a friends house the other day, I had the legit shop bought DVD in my drive, so I fired off TPB and started downloading it, download finished before I could make the legit DVD play -.-
<Monotoko> dont even get me started on DRm
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17998113
<Monotoko> it makes it easier to pirate than to buy to get rid of the bloody stuff
<ali1234> yes, yes, we know
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17922214 eheh good old bbc, telling people how to get around it
<Azelphur> haha
<Monotoko> popey, well il be damned :P
<Azelphur> popey: did you hear that the block resulted in TPB hitting all time record traffic?
<popey> haha
<popey> mostly from people checking "am I blocked?"
<popey> I would imagine
<Azelphur> probably
<popey> or discovering tpb for the first ime
<popey> "thanks bbc"
<Azelphur> "the site has claimed 12 million more visitors than it has ever had." XD
<Monotoko> ........ -facepalm-
<Azelphur> streisand effect strikes again
<MartijnVdS> "So that's where the neighbor's kid gets it"
<popey> indeed
<popey> fun
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Help Needed! Ask Ubuntu Accomplishment Documentation - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/31/help-needed-ask-ubuntu-accomplishment-documentation/
<dogmatic69> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9301233/Olympic-beer-to-cost-7.23-a-pint.html
<mattt> wowzers
 * dogmatic69 is so excited about the Olympicsâ¢ 
<mattt> "... alongside traditional British favourites such as toasted teacakes and porridge."
 * AlanBell will get free food
<mattt> AlanBell: howz?
<gord> y'know the hamburgler? similar deal
<ali1234> popey: http://imagebin.org/214662
<ali1234> oh, it loaded
<ali1234> y'know
<ali1234> that could be made less confusing
<ali1234> now it's telling me to buy it?
<popey> yeah, bit messy that
<ali1234> oh hang on a minute, it explains *all* this on the page
<popey> it says in your screenshot ...
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> duh
<popey> i expect this was done in a bit of a hurry âº
<popey> and we had to very quickly develop the bits to make this work
<ali1234> psychonauts still uploading to the mirrors?
<ali1234> it is 4GB...
<C-S-B> I have added a new disk, degraded my raid1 and created a raid5 with half the degraded raid1 and the new disk.  I have LVM on the raid and want to use pvmove but getting Found duplicate PV
 * popey pokes about on launchpad
<popey> right, looks like lp is getting a kicking
<ali1234> oh?
<popey> yeah, I'm getting timeouts on the pages which deal with this stuff
<ali1234> at least it didn't try to bill me $0.00 or something silly like that
<popey> so I would expect we're getting a lot of people trying to subscribe and download
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> they've nearly hit $1M already
<popey> blimey
<ali1234> they got some good games this time!
<popey> heh
<ali1234> this is the first one i bought
<directhex> it's a good bundle
<directhex> already owned 4/5, but linux ports...
<ali1234> which 4?
<directhex> the ones that don't involve swords or sworcery
<ali1234> ok i can understand that software centre needs to update repos the first time i try to install one of the games
<ali1234> but surely it should have all of them once it's done that?
<directhex> ali1234, it never offered for me. just "not in repo!" errors.
<ali1234> yes it did that when i clicked amnesia but there was a spinner and after a while (presumably after updating repos) it showed it
<ali1234> but the other two games seems to be missing for real
<ali1234> just to rub it in i've got emails thanking me for downloading something that i can't download
<penguin42> good, judge has said that APIs aren't copyrightable
<Azelphur> I bought a hdd off ebay (refurbished 1 year warranty) and day 1 it has 17 bad sectors, by the end of the day it has 47, should I send it back?
<ali1234> prolly
<Azelphur> and the other question, can other issues in the laptop besides the hdd cause bad sectors to show up?
<Azelphur> because the last hdd died, bought a new one, and the new one is dieing in a similar fashion
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> fair enough, I'm just extremely unlucky I guess XD
<ali1234> not unless your laptop is filled with magnets and iron filings
<popey> ali1234: each game is a separate ppa
<Azelphur> would magnets even cause the sectors to be reallocated?
<Azelphur> rather than just corrupting the data
<ali1234> popey: well sword and sorcery still hasn't shown up. i see limbo is 32 bit only (though there's a 64 bit deb on the download page)
<ali1234> Azelphur: yes, the HD has a low level format that marks out the sectors and magents would erase that
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> but in practice the sectors are tiny and strong enough magnetic field to wipe one would wipe most of a platter
<Azelphur> I suppose I'll have a nose around and make sure no magnets are about :)
<Azelphur> ah
<Monotoko> uhm... the motherboard could actually cause HDD failure
<ali1234> not bad sectors
<Monotoko> every single HDD I plug into that motherboard dies within a week... with bad sectors
<directhex> penguin42, hooray! so mono is safe now, right?
<Monotoko> I got a new motherboard
<Monotoko> :P
<penguin42> directhex: Oh I don't know about that
<dogmatic69> is there an easy way to get the size of an svg file with imagemagic?
<dogmatic69> looking at convert does not seem to have that sort of thing
<ali1234> imagemagick is't good for svg
<ali1234> i have a script that will tell you the size of an svg
<dogmatic69> I am using it at for `convert from.svg to.png`
<ali1234> yeah, use cairo for that
<dogmatic69> works ok, just want to know if the svg is wide or high
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1017195/
<dogmatic69> well, I want to make the max width|height 800px
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> php / bash
<ali1234> svg doesn't have a pixel size
<dogmatic69> ye, its xml.
<dogmatic69> I can open it with simpleXml and read the attributes. just thought there may be something that does it already
<directhex> dogmatic69, ehm... the size of an svg is whatever size you render it as
<dogmatic69> directhex: sure, but it has a size
<dogmatic69> directhex: http://i.imgur.com/2fDQV.jpg
<Darael> Anybody happen to know where keyboard-layout settings are kept in Precise?  It seems to have changed from Oneiric; while the panel shows my own settings, they're ignored in actual use.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-01
<popey> Happy Mailman Day!
<dwatkins> hi folks
<dwatkins> popey: my order from Farnell is still processing - it's tempting to order from RS just because I might get one quicker
<popey> thats what i did
<popey> also i ordered some other bits from farnell and they say they have shipped them but no delivery tracking thing is available which is annoying
<popey> bah, it said "Pending" yesterday not it says "Received"
<popey> but I have two emails saying "your order has been shipped" - bah
<dwatkins> got a mail from RS: "To help ensure as many people as possible can experience the Raspberry Pi concept, we are initially limiting boards to one per customer"
<dwatkins> That was after registering my interest on their site; I think I already filled out that form, but don't appear to have ever received a reply from them previously.
<popey> yeah, i got the invitation to order from them
<popey> and ordered
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great news. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120531173633275
<TheOpenSourcerer> APIs are not subject to copyright - even in the US.
<dwatkins> yeah, I was hoping the judge would rule that way - fairly likely seeing as he learned Java for the case and essentially ridiculed them during it, TheOpenSourcerer - assuming I have the right judge/case :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - Alsup.
<dwatkins> I have huge amounts of respect for a judge prepared to actually learn the language concerned during a case.
<TheOpenSourcerer> He scorned one Oracles lawyers when he said "I can code that in 10 minutes. Can you?"
<dwatkins> They should make a film out of this ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's the betting Oracle will appeal?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I reckon 10:1 on
<dwatkins> I hope they get laughed out of the court.
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> "we would like to appeal this decision, the judge knew what he was talking about, this is clearly unfair and we didn't expect it at all"
<dwatkins> awwww diddums
<diplo> heh
<dwatkins> lawyers met their match
<Flex\a> hi guys. noob question i know. I've got a p12 SSL cert that was self generated by a friend of mine. I need to install that into my ubuntu system so that we can connect over SSL. i take it that I can just convert the cert to a .crt file and then where do i put it and what do i do to install it as a trusted CA cert?
<Flex\a> its a root cert btw
<dwatkins> Wouldn't it be easier to use ssh?
<Flex\a> no needs to be ssl
<Flex\a> its to test an aplication
<dwatkins> I just followed the Apache2 SSL tutorial
<dwatkins> You would need to generate your own certificate for your server and install it, then anyone connecting will have to accept that certificate (i.e. add an exception) since it will be self-certified.
<Flex\a> no
<Flex\a> he has generated his own SSL cert
<Flex\a> now i need to install the root cert
<Flex\a> so that when i connect to him
<Flex\a> it doesnt moan about this is untrusted etc
<AlanBell> Flex\a: what are you connecting with?
<AlanBell> as in what client end application are you using?
<Flex\a> apache / SOAP xml handler
<AlanBell> ok, so you need to set up a keyring for that to go in
<AlanBell> it doesn't go with the CA certificates
<AlanBell> the keyring would go in somewhere that the webserver can read
<AlanBell> !info ca-certificates
<lubotu3> ca-certificates (source: ca-certificates): Common CA certificates. In component main, is standard. Version 20111211 (precise), package size 165 kB, installed size 373 kB
<Flex\a> ah ok - so its not like just installing the root crt and then reconfiguring ca-certificates ?
<AlanBell> that packages is where the public CA ones come from
<Flex\a> ok, so what do i need to do then? :P
<dwatkins> I followed something like this, which worked: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~brams006/selfsign_ubuntu.html
<AlanBell> wrong end dwatkins
<Script> < Flex
<Script> but thats just how to install SSL certs for using with apache
<Script> for him to connect to mme
<Script> i need to install his cert so that when i connect to him - it doesnt throw up an error saying this is an untrusted cert
<AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3346039/how-to-use-php5-soapclientsoapclient-with-client-certificate does that help?
<mattt> morning morning
<Karti> Hi, could someone please point me to an area that I can look at to see what time my ubuntu computer power failed last night - All help is greatly appreciated
<popey> Karti: /var/log/syslog
<dwatkins> schwuk: in your browser, as an exception?
<dwatkins> oops, I mean Script
<dwatkins> anyway, I imagine that stackoverflow link explains what's necessary
<Karti> popey, many thanks. I reviewed syslog.1 and could see the time difference between last known and start time. I am now assuming that this is when it failed so thank you for your help.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Rather quiet in 'ere today
<AlanBell> BOO
<diplo> :)
<diplo> All busy getting with work ?
<diplo> I really have no will to work today, think I'm ready to go home and curl up in bed
<daubers> diplo: ditto
<diplo> We have a web application we are going to test in the next few weeks, I would like to get reports on what usages across the board it's using
<diplo> Anyone recommend a tool ? Is SAR or something one to use, remember it from my AIX days
<diplo> Or is there something better now
<JamesTait> And finally, happy Friday, people! :)
<daubers> Can someone explain in simple "not a crypto expert" terms why the whole key signing thing for UEFI would be so expensive?
<czajkowski> ello mr.cake man daubers
<daubers> i.e. sabdfl has a history of signing stuff, we have things that do automated building, surely Canonical/Fedora/Red Hat/Debian/Whoever have clout with HW manufacturers, and there are already a few distro independant organisations which could involve distros for expertise/kit/whatever? Surely it's just a big thing to organise?
<daubers> o/ czajkowski
<AlanBell> daubers: Red Hat don't want to have to go to Canonical for signing any more than they want to go to Microsoft
<AlanBell> and they don't have the clout for a comprehensive installation of the keys
<daubers> AlanBell: Surely they'd be happy to provide assistance in setting up a neutral org (or assisting one) in doing that though?
<AlanBell> you would think something would have been worked out
<daubers> Isn't this one of those things where OSS people should stop being tribal and come together for the greater good? (and then break up and be tribal again when it's done)
<AlanBell> probably, although there is still the problem of getting OEMs to ship the key for an OS they are not pre-installing
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm not sure that would be too difficult. The trick would probably be to talk to the chipset manufacturers rather than the OEMs
<czajkowski> daubers: we can say how trivial it is, but we're not the managers/shareholders/business people who make the decision across the board
<AlanBell> the chipset supports the loading of keys, the OEMs load the keys
<AlanBell> as I understand it, anyhow
<daubers> AlanBell: Yes, but get the key preloaded onto the chip to begin with :)
<AlanBell> I trust they have tried every sensible option, and are left with the distateful one
<daubers> czajkowski: I'm not saying it's trivial. Just seems a bit silly trying to avoid the people problem by going with the "let someone else deal with it" option
<daubers> Just sounds like incredibly technical people looking at what is a management/policy issues and throwing the baby out with the bathwater
<daubers> Hopefully one of the big distro policy people will come out with what's going on soon
<popey> âº
 * daubers dislikes the management thing
<daubers> Also, I wish the NHS had a thing where I could get a code or something to see if test results where in
<AlanBell> anyone got any useful nagios tips?
<AlanBell> like "arrgh, don't do it!!!" or "don't run it in a VM on a host you want to monitor" or "do/don't use the Ubuntu packages"
<gord> i am in full support of daubers's idea to make the NHS a subsidiary of UPS
<daubers> gord: Then they could truely deliver medical support when needed
<diplo> rah, actually configured my config for irssi now
<diplo> AlanBell: I use it quite a bit, don't use the newest version is what the nagios channel have been saying for a while
<diplo> I just use the repos version ( albeit it CentOS 5 ) but it works fine
<diplo> Monitor 80-100 hosts, about 2-300 services off the top of my head
<diplo> I like it, the guys in support like it. Probably lot's of things I shouldnt do and do wrong but it seems to work.
<popey> AlanBell: i would recommend opsview over nagios
<popey> its based on nagios, but is easier to admin
<diplo> yeah I keep meaning to use that, but it's setup and works and tbh with my work at the moment i really cba
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Also want to try puppet, I need servers and more time :)
<Knightwise> morning !
<brobostigon> afternoonings Knightwise
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you today
<brobostigon> Knightwise: could be better, feels worse for wear, mostly due to my eczema. and you?
<Knightwise> hopping from tech problem to tech problem , but having a general good time :)
<brobostigon> :)
<Knightwise> and working on a nice project at home ,
<brobostigon> Knightwise: did you get those things working on that mac properly, you were talking about the other day. ?
<Knightwise> ppc linux on an old imac
<AlanBell> ok, thanks popey and diplo, I think I will try nagios first as it is in the repos
<AlanBell> hmm, lots of configuration files to edit by hand. Am I doing this wrong?
<diplo> Nope
<diplo> Lots of config files, but you can copy and paste, it does get very quick after a while
<diplo> Or you can try centreon which lays over the top of nagios
<diplo> I basically defined What I wanted and worked from there
<AlanBell> surely there is a button in the web thingie to say "my server to monitor with nagios-nrpe-server installed is over there ->"
<diplo> Nope, that is basically what centreon does
<diplo> thats why people are adding to it, I've never understood why that functionality wasn't in there
<diplo> Also have NagioSQL
<diplo> Another I've been meaning to try
<diplo> https://www.icinga.org/
<diplo> is the other one
<AlanBell> only nagios in the repos though
<diplo> Which is why I guess I've stayed as well
<diplo> Honestly, very quick to set up new hosts etc once you have the jist(sp?) of it
<diplo> Just took me a short while and I seem to actually help others now
<diplo> Some really good scripts out there as well for monitoring stuff
<diplo> brb shop, any q's just ask away
<Knightwise> anyone know any good alternatives for terminator ?
<Knightwise> i would like something like that on my mac
<Knightwise> just to have split panes and stuff in one terminal
<popey> 12:45:27 < AlanBell> hmm, lots of configuration files to edit by hand. Am I doing this wrong?
<popey> exactly the reason I recommeneded opsview
<MartijnVdS> puppet?
<Knightwise> popey , do you run osx on your mac or just ubuntu ?
<popey> Knightwise: osx
<popey> its no longer my mac, it's wifeys
<Knightwise> did you ever have any problems with keymappings ?
<Knightwise> when i want to do Shift F2 and stuff to split my byobu screen , i need to press FN , SHIFT and F2 .. but that doenst seem to work
<popey> the keyboard layout is wrong on ubuntu
<popey> oh, in osx? pass
<Knightwise> yep , found that out too , its not completely correct in ubuntu
<Knightwise> but in osx .. cant get it working
<Knightwise> i'll google around some more
<Knightwise> seems to be a known bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/byobu/+bug/482623/comments/24
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 482623 in byobu "Apple keyboard - F buttons don't work" [Low,Confirmed]
<shauno> I'm more surprised when buttons do work.  ubuntu's keymaps for macs are hopeless.  I've slowly been surely trying to write my own from scratch :/
<Knightwise> shauno: i hear your pain
<Knightwise> since i'm a cross platform user its a real pain in the butt
<shauno> atm being rather hampered by linux using windows-style 'accelerators' for menus, which isn't the alt-key behaviour I want
<Knightwise> shauno: i'll just use F2 and F3 to switch between windows
<Knightwise> but the cool thing was , in the old days , with SCREEN , i COULD do all these things
<dwatkins> aha, finally Farnell get in touch
<oimon> how do we download amazon mp3 on 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> banshee
<Azelphur> I've got a drive under warranty that's generating about 50 bad sectors a day, time to return it? :P
<oimon> MartijnVdS, banshee still ok for 12.04 64 bit?
<oimon> +amazon
<oimon> ok, got clamz installed.
<oimon> was tricky talking the missus over the phone to get it sorted , but fixed now
<popey> Azelphur: didnt we have this conversation yesterday?
<Azelphur> popey: I asked ali late last night and he didn't seem too sure, plus the situation has worsened since then
<shauno> I abandon disks the moment they give me the slightest reason to distrust them.   You can try faith, but they won't return the favour
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> Azelphur: how are you determining the failed sectors?
<Azelphur> disk utility
<popey> what? the smart data?
<popey> which specific bit?
<Azelphur> popey: yea, smart data
<popey> which attribute?
<Azelphur> reallocated sectors
<popey> i wouldn't be bothered by 50
<popey> if it climbs alarmingly fast I would worry
<Azelphur> it's doing about 50 a day
<daubers> Azelphur: Manufacturers wouldn't take it back until it got beyond the thrreshold anyway
<popey> oh, 50 a day?
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> what is it up to now?
<Azelphur> 100
<Azelphur> 17 > 45 > 100
<popey> thats still pretty low
<popey> if the disk had been sat on a shelf, not used for some time, and you bought it..
<popey> then its possible that none of the sectors that have a problem have been touched, until now, when you chuck data on it
<popey> how big is it and how full is it?
<Azelphur> 120GB, practically empty
<popey> what filesystem?
<MartijnVdS> and that's why you fill a disk with zeroes before first use ;)
<Azelphur> just the OS
<Azelphur> ext4
<popey> yeah, write a big file and see if it climbs
<popey> dd if=/dev/zero of=~/testfile bs=1M
<Azelphur> what sort of number is time to start worrying?
<popey> when it climbs rapidly
<popey> do the dd and watch the number
<MartijnVdS> and/or it maxes out
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> yea, I'll go dd some big files on it and see what happens :)
<popey> only need one
<popey> one giant file
<Azelphur> sorry, yea one big file
<diplo> AlanBell: Did you notice there was a ppa for icinga ? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icinga
<popey> bah.. the "totem pressing alt during videos" is back in quantal
<daubers> Woot! Ordered Iron Sky to watch post move tomorrow
<gord> popey, yell at seb to fix the packaging :)
<popey> \o/
<diplo> that out on dvd already daubers ?
<diplo> Remember seeing a clip for it at the cinema not so long ago
<popey> hah, thats a mad film
<ahayzen> Hi, in USC 'paid' for apps get a section called 'Also requires' which is quite neat... why don't the 'free' apps get this feature?... or is it an option when submitting the app to USC?
<popey> ahayzen: such as?
<daubers> diplo: yup :) Didn't really get a cinema release, so quite quick to DVD
<ahayzen> popey: Amnesia: The Dark Descent in USC says 'Also requires: mouse, OpenGL hardware acceleration'... i see no 'free' games that do that?
<popey> ahayzen: dunno where that data comes from tbh
<ahayzen> popey: I thought it would be useful to users downloading free apps to know if u need hardware acceleration etc before downloading a massive file to find it doesn't work.
<shauno> it'd be even cleverer if USC could check for a certain pool of these and give you green ticks / red crosses against the requirements
<diplo> Will pester you on monday on your thoughts
<ahayzen> shauno: That would be really cool :)
<shauno> mouse & 3daccel being easy examples where USC shouldn't need to ask the user
<popey> ahayzen: I'd ask a question on askubuntu.com and give us the URL, I'll see if I can find someone who can answer it
<gord> can't we just bother davmor2?
<gord> it seems only fair
<gord> can i do it?
<ahayzen> popey: http://askubuntu.com/questions/145091/why-do-some-paid-for-apps-have-a-section-called-also-requires-and-free-apps-do this Ok? (never done AskUbuntu before)
<popey> gord: please do! but get him to answer on au :D
<popey> if he tries to answer here, I'll kick him
<ahayzen> popey: Thanks for the edit :)
<popey> n
<popey> np
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Indicator Color - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/indicator-color/
<gord> hum, running two 1920x1200 monitors right now, pretty cool, but i'm only running an xchat instance and one small terminal. kind of feels like a waste...
<diplo> .
<diplo> ..
<DJones> Heh http://goo.gl/gjjT7 silly cat
<diplo> error: unexpected character `\15', expected string
<diplo> Any ideas on /reload of irssi config
<diplo> Can't find a defo answer atm
<diplo> All looks ok
<diplo> says it for every line
<DJones> What are you trying to do, is that from just running "/reload"
<diplo> Yep
<diplo> I added in some servers etc to config and some channels
<diplo> I've gone through and they look same as all the examples on the web
<DJones> Manually edited into the config file?
<diplo> Just wondering if it's something simple, can't find exactly what caused it
<diplo> yeah, not allowed?
<DJones> Can you pastebin the config file
<diplo> Seems that you could from what I read
<diplo> yeah
<DJones> I manually edit mine, I'm guessing that one of the lines might not be quite right
<diplo> DJones: Thank! I love asking people stuff and after 20-30 mins of looking it was simple
<diplo> thanks*
 * diplo bangs head
<DJones> I guess you've found it
<diplo> ^M :( had used my win7 lap to edit it whilst reload from here
<diplo> Just dos2unix'd the file, all fine
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> I edit mine in nano via ssh
<diplo> Just changed line endings in the editor, as 95% of my work is in linux.. fairly new install, guess I haven't used it yet
<diplo> I normally use vi, was working on PC so used lappy to do it
<diplo> That'll teach me
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Was hoping /reload would connect to new network and channels I'd added
<diplo> <-- Irssi newbie here
<diplo> Will disconnect and reconnect properly when I get home.
<ali1234> "internal error - invalid parameters received"
<vedreamer> Anyone using rackspace cloud
<vedreamer> ?
<brobostigon> any suggestions of a good android maps app, that is more space and resource effeicient than google maps, ?
<popey> ali1234: limbo is in the software centre now
<popey> unfortunately it's a Windows app with crossover â¹
<ali1234> popey: yeah and it doesn't work :(
<popey> wfm
<ali1234> wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000000 at address 0x487996 (thread 0020), starting debugger...
<ali1234> sword and sorcery works though
<ali1234> but you have to run it with 'SDL_VIDEO_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=0 /opt/swordandsworcery/run.sh' if you have two monitors, otherwise it stretches across both (like all SDL games)
<gord> limbo is an xbla game first and foremost, hard to expect anything other than crossover i guess
<popey> had a brief play, it's very good
<popey> nicely atmospheric
<shauno> I've been playing "Retreiving Hero List ..." for a few days now.  It's rather predictable :/
<JamesTait> brobostigon: Have you tried osmand?
<brobostigon> JamesTait: it is on my list,
<JamesTait> brobostigon: I don't know how it fares wrt being more efficient, tbh.
<brobostigon> JamesTait: it certain it bigger in size, 8mb, compared to 6 for google maps.
<ali1234> hmmmmmm... limbo is actually bundled with a 32 bit wine and a custom drive_c
<ali1234> so at least it isn't affected by existing wine installation
<ali1234> still doesn't work though
<ali1234> ok, i managed to make it work... you have to disable second monitor, then it will load up
<ali1234> unfortunately when you quit it, you get dumped on a black screen and have to restart X
<penguin42> limbo?
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> what's that?
<ali1234> a game
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/limbo/
<ali1234> running it in a fake desktop will probably solve these problems
<ali1234> ah there we go
<penguin42> ali1234: You have a reliable X crash?
<ali1234> running it with system wine ina virtual desktop seems to work
<ali1234> penguin42: it doesn't crash, it just stps redrawing the screen
<ali1234> i can move the mouse around and the pointer changes when i mouse over window borders etc
<ali1234> but everything is black
<penguin42> ali1234: hmm, many reasons - perhaps the game still has a window open covering it all?
<ali1234> probably something like that yeah
<penguin42> ali1234: But if the game process is gone then it shouldn't happen
<ali1234> it's wine so anything can happen
<ali1234> anyway using system wine works
<popey> ali1234: i ran it dual screen and it was fine, but dumped me to single screen on exit
<popey> the randomness of multiscreen and games
<ali1234> total width of your desktop?
<popey> i have 2 screens, started limbo and it used the whole of one screen, and turned off the other screen
<ali1234> yeah that's wine changing the display resolution
<ali1234> that doesn't work with nvidia
<ali1234> you get one possible choice which is 3200x1200
<penguin42> popey: They tend to change res and things like that - it would be interesting to know whether there is an ABI they should  be using that would work, or if there is a missing ABI then it's open for someone to create one
<ali1234> clearly limbo doesn't support that resolution and just bombs out with a segfault rather than display a useful error
<penguin42> ali1234: I guess that's becuase nvidia doesn't tend to do xrandr
<popey> it does now
<ali1234> yes, and good for nvidia
<ali1234> actually it does present xrandr but there's only one possible configuration
<ali1234> i really hate games that change your screen mode and turn off monitors, there's no reason for it
<penguin42> popey: Will it actually show the separate heads as randr heads now ?
<ali1234> it's a good thing that wine can fake out those games and force them to run windowed, because that actually works and isn't really annoying
<ali1234> penguin42: no, it doesn't. still looks like one head to xrandr
<ali1234> one display with a relly odd resolution. hence the crash
<ali1234> it messes up nearly all games actually
<ali1234> most of them just end up with a horribly warped picture though
<ali1234> hmm does this game have any controls except for up down left right?
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> after running vlc, sound in flash (youtube) is accelerated
<MartijnVdS> 48000 vs 44100 initialization issues i guess
<popey> ali1234: ctrl
<popey> assuming limbo?
<ali1234> right ctrl only. who comes up with this stuff? :(
<popey> i used left
<ali1234> left does not work, i tried it like a hundred times
 * popey shrugs
<popey> !wfm
<lubotu3> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
<ali1234> perhaps that's why they use a custom wine (lol)
<popey> perhaps indeed
<ali1234> wow, i died
<ali1234> ok this is annoying
<ali1234> oh, so it's going to be like that
<ali1234> argh
<popey> âº
<popey> trap?
<popey> or drown
<ali1234> everything is a trap
<MartijnVdS> it's a tarp!
<gord> yeah pretty much, i wasn't a huge fan, but its got a lot of critical clout behind it
<ali1234> AHAHAHA that's terrible
<ali1234> putting something like that so early in a game... seriously
<MartijnVdS> \o/ "timeout"
<MartijnVdS> i.e. the gnu coreutils "timeout"
<gord> is that the gnu diablo III simulator? hi-oooo
<MartijnVdS> it kills processes
<MartijnVdS> so I can run:
<MartijnVdS> timeout 70m dd if=/dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0 of=recorded_programme.ts
<MartijnVdS> ghetto DVR :)
<gord> i think there are a bunch of actual dvr solutions out there ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: yes but they tend to require your entire X session to be "theirs"
<MartijnVdS> gord: vdr and myth do, anyway
<MartijnVdS> and I just want to run a recording in the background while I'm doing other things
<MartijnVdS> gord: I'm thinking of building some scripts to automate this all
<MartijnVdS> gord: (using at possibly)
<MartijnVdS> so I can just say 'at <some time> ~/bin/record.sh "Channel Name" record_time_in_minutes'
<popey> a friend of mine does this with scripts
<popey> lemme see if he's made them public
<MartijnVdS> popey: I use szap and dd
<gord> talking of awesome scripts, i made my imapfilter config automatically filter away mail from mailing lists its not seen before, its so good, i didn't even realise it was mailman day today
<MartijnVdS> gord: you can configure most mailmen to not mail you every month
<gord> eh?
<gord> but how would i know its not mailman day?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, er, mythtv is split between frontend and daemon. the recording doesn't need x
<MartijnVdS> because it won't be sending the notifications at all
<MartijnVdS> directhex: but you can't tell it to record without a frontend
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and I've never successfully made it tune to a channel
<directhex> MartijnVdS, mythweb?
<ali1234> you can use the web interface to set recordings
<popey> yeah, i used to use that
<MartijnVdS> I think I'll stick to my scripts :)
<OY1R> can anyone help me getting a secondary monitor to work?
<OY1R> im running 10.04 on a laptop, just got a new monitor but i cant get it to power up, it only shows "No Signal". the old ctr however displays video once plugged in.
<OY1R> and i tested the new led monitor with another laptop running vista it worked fine.
<dwatkins> Is it enabled in the BIOS, OY1R?
<dwatkins> Also, check the function keys which control whether the display is on or not, mirrored etc. depending on the laptop.
<OY1R> dwatkins, the monitor is identified in the monitor preferences and set to on
<dwatkins> wait, are you using the same port for both CRT and flatpanel?
<OY1R> dwatkins, yes
<OY1R> tho only one at a time
<dwatkins> hmm, what resolution is the display at?
<OY1R> laptop is at 1920x1200 and the secondary is 1920x1080
<dwatkins> Try setting it to something the flatpanel is very likely to support, like 1024x768 or 1280x1024
<OY1R> i have tried all the resolutions in the list.
<dwatkins> how about refresh rate?
<OY1R> also
<penguin42> OY1R: I'm suspicious of the no signal as opposed to wrong signal
<penguin42> (although that might be reading too much into it)
<dwatkins> puzzling, especially since it works on the other machine
<penguin42> OY1R: What inputs does the flat panel have, and which one are you using?
<dwatkins> I'm assuming you've also ruled out the cable
<OY1R> it has dvi and vga.
<OY1R> im using vga
<dwatkins> is it selected, though?
<OY1R> yea i tried the same cable on a vista laptop it ran fine.
<penguin42> OY1R: Did you have to do anything odd on 10.04 to get the CRT to work?
<OY1R> it's selected automatically i guess
<dwatkins> there may be a button - my Dell flatpanel has a selector to switch between inputs
<OY1R> Pendulum, maybe install the nvidea drivers
 * penguin42 grrrs at Pendulum
<OY1R> hehe
<penguin42> OY1R: Hmm, have you got the nvidia drivers installed at the moment ?
<OY1R> sri
<OY1R> no proprietary drivers are in use according to the "hardware drivers"
<dwatkins> What model flatpanel, OY1R?
<OY1R> packard bell meastro 220
<penguin42> OY1R: Can you pastebin the output of xrandr   with the lcd plugged in please?
<OY1R> here or pastebin ?
<penguin42> pastebin please
<OY1R> penguin42, http://pastebin.com/sUd8vvyn
<penguin42> OY1R: hmm - can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-02
<directhex> ought to be okay, from that
<penguin42> OY1R: I mean the good thing there is that it found there is a display on VGA, it's got the wrong res, but it's got the display
<dwatkins> http://forum.oktabit.gr/files/PB_Maestro_240_TV.jpg and other pictures show n physical input selector, so I assume it's done from the remote, but the xrandr suggests the laptop 'sees' the display, it's just not initialising it, I guess.
<penguin42> directhex: It's possible the display doesn't really like the 1152x864 ?
<dwatkins> *no
<directhex> if you click the button on the top right of the screen, then click "displays" (second option) it's got 2 screens listed?
<directhex> you may need to untick "mirror displays" for it to show both
<OY1R> penguin42, http://pastebin.com/eEZjCF3t
<penguin42> OY1R: 2 more things, what res were you using the CRT at, and is it the VGA socket on the back of the monitor you're using or the phono set?
<penguin42> OY1R: Well, it's good you're not using the Nvidia drivers, because you've got an ATI Radeon
<OY1R> the crt runs @ 1600x1200
<OY1R> phono set? ?
<penguin42> OY1R: It's a VGA<->VGA lead ?
<OY1R> i only have vga<>vga
<penguin42> that Xorg.0.log is fine
<penguin42> OY1R: OK, so if you bring up the monitor selector dialog, I assume it shows both monitors?  Does it show it as being mirrored? Does it show both monitors as being on?
<OY1R> they are not mirrored and both are ON
<penguin42> OY1R: OK, and what res does it think the external is set to?
<OY1R> penguin42, once i connect it, resolution is set at 1920x1080 (highest)
<penguin42> OY1R: Really? That's not what the xrandr seemed to say?
<penguin42> oh sorry, yes it did
<penguin42> OY1R: Try knocking that res down, as dwatkins suggested - see what happens
<OY1R> penguin42, i have tried the whole list
<penguin42> OY1R: Weird, what model laptop is this?
<OY1R> inspiron 9400
<OY1R> dell
<penguin42> nod
 * penguin42 is out of ideas - from those logs everything looks happy
<OY1R> i just took a screen shot, and both screens are there
<OY1R> i see both backgrounds and an open window on the secondary monitor in the screen shot, so it is fed video data, it's just in "no signal" mode or something like that.
<penguin42> OY1R: Have you got a spare VGA lead?
<OY1R> penguin42, yes, i tried it as well
<penguin42> sorry, out of ideas
<OY1R> snap
<OY1R> thanks for trying tho.
<penguin42> OY1R: If you boot with it plugged in do you see the BIOS display on it?
<OY1R> No
<penguin42> that's pretty odd
<penguin42> OY1R: I've heard of TVs that are 1920x1080 like that one, but they can't do 1920x1080 on the VGA - but you've said you've tried lower res, I've also seen ones that have to select that input and stuff - but you said you used it on a vista laptop
<OY1R> looking at it now on the vista laptop, runs fine both mirrored and extended
<penguin42> OY1R: Have you got an Ubuntu boot cd/thumb drive you can try booting on that vista laptop?
<OY1R> at full res, once i unplug it i get " no cable connected" and when i plug it in the ubuntu laptop it says "No signal" and powers down/sleeps
<OY1R> hmm mi have not tried that
<OY1R> i'll give it a shot
<penguin42> OY1R: I'd try that, and the other thing I'd try is a 12.04 boot CD/thumb on your 10.04 laptop
<ali1234> we get someone with this problem at least once a week
<penguin42> ali1234: Monitor problems yes, but this one is a bit unusual
<ali1234> always with HDTVs
<penguin42> ali1234: I know there are problems with 1366x768 TVs, not seen/known of it with 1920's
<ali1234> i suspect it is something to do wth HDCP
<penguin42> ali1234: It's on VGA
<OY1R> ubuntu live cd runs fine on the "vista" latop
<ali1234> exactly
<penguin42> ali1234: But it's on VGA - it can't be expecting HDCP
<ali1234> VGA doesn't support HDCP for obvious reasons
<penguin42> OY1R: OK so live cd on vista laptop works on this display - what about that live cd on the unhappy laptop?
<OY1R> penguin42, i tried that, didnt work.
<penguin42> OY1R: OK, what version is the live cd?
<OY1R> 9.04
<penguin42> OY1R: Well, only things I can think left to try (other than poking options on the monitor) are a) try a 12.04 live cd, b) try installing the radeon closed source drivers - not necessarily in that order
<penguin42> OY1R: but IMHO it's odd that it wont see it from the BIOS screen
<OY1R> i dont have the balls to mess with drivers atm, i need the laptop in working order on Monday at 8:30
<OY1R> i just have to replace the monitor.
<penguin42> OY1R: I've heard of monitor/machine incompatibilities - it's very rare though
<OY1R> ok
<penguin42> OY1R: Then try a 12.04 boot CD - if it works then you know you have a way out
<ali1234> what do + and * mean on xrandr output?
<penguin42> ali1234: Can't remember!
<penguin42> ali1234: One of them is 'currently selected'
<ali1234> one is current mode
<ali1234> + is preferred more
<ali1234> current mode used for the TV is 1152x864 Â  Â  Â  75.0*
<ali1234> it seems unlikely that that would work
<penguin42> There was a fun bug in the Intel drivers a while back where one guys monitor only worked when it was the right temperature (due to a screw up int he way i2c was driven)
<penguin42> ali1234: But hey said he tried all the modes
<OY1R> can 12.04 use gnome ?
<ali1234> 800x600?
<ali1234> or 1024x768@60
<penguin42> OY1R: Not gnome2 with the standard install - but youcan add the packages from mate-desktop.org that is a back ported gnome2
<penguin42> OY1R: Actually, when you plug it into the Vista machine, what res does the vista machine think it's driving the monitor at?
<OY1R> penguin42, vista sets the monitor at 1920x1080
<ali1234> good question :)
<penguin42> hmph
<OY1R> screen shot i tool > http://postimage.org/image/rfbdtn7bp/full/
<OY1R> the video data is there but the monitor does not want to switch on.
<ali1234> that mode sn't even in the xrandr list
<penguin42> ali1234: It i, the internal LCD is selected there - it's showing it's res
<ali1234> set the mode to 800x600 60Hz then switch the TV to a different input and then back again
<OY1R> i cant select anything on the monitor, it needs to be ON in order to access the menu
<ali1234> turn it on then
<OY1R> hehe i cant
<ali1234> i don't understand
<OY1R> well it says "No Signal" for a few seconds then turns off
<OY1R> or goes to sleep
<ali1234> the monitor has a tuner?
<ali1234> the picture you posted has an RF input on it
<ali1234> and scart for that matter
<OY1R> no it does not!
<ali1234> it only has VGA?
<OY1R> it's a pc monitor, it has a dvi and vga only.
<ali1234> i dunno then
<ali1234> what happens if you reboot and enter the system bios with the external display connected?
<penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't show anything - see above
<OY1R> http://s14.postimage.org/c9vh3q3gx/Screenshot_2.png
<OY1R> ali1234, no image on the external device when in bios either.
<ali1234> Modeline "1920x1080"x0.0 Â 148.50 Â 1920 2008 2052 2200 Â 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync (67.5 kHz)
<ali1234> Modeline "1920x1080"x60.0 Â 172.80 Â 1920 2040 2248 2576 Â 1080 1081 1084 1118 -hsync +vsync (67.1 kHz)
<ali1234> weird
<ali1234> the problem here is almost certainly bad EDID, with X being more willing to try odd modes than vista
<ali1234> and both the 1080 modes have same overall refresh rate so there's no way to tell which it is using from xrandr
<penguin42> ali1234: Except none of the modes work - not just the 1920
<ali1234> yeah but you can't try both of the 1080 modes
<ali1234> because xrandr is only listing one of them
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, but if it's just one duff modeline that can't be the problem
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh, add in the fact that it works on his other laptop with a 9.04 boot cd
<ali1234> other laptop has what graphics card?
<penguin42> dunno
<ali1234> modeline choice is dictated by the graphics driver, which takes the EDID and calculates all valid modes; some of them calculate it better than others
<ali1234> that second 1080 modeine i pasted has an excessive amount of overscan and also different sync polarity
<penguin42> yeh, tvs often have odd overscan values
<ali1234> but this isn't a TV
<penguin42> oh yeh
<penguin42> anyway, I'll stick with the previous recommendation; try a 12.04 boot cd, and try the closed radeon driver - not necessarily in that order
<ali1234> i would set IgnoreEDID in xorg.conf and then write modelines by hand until i found one that worked
<ali1234> but that takes time and effort
<ali1234> oh, and i wouldn't bother using the open source drivers
<penguin42> ali1234: They work well for me, and they worked fine for him on his previous monitor!
<penguin42> (but he is on 10.04 at the moment and they were young then)
<OY1R> i packed up the monitor i'll have it replaced tomorrow.
<penguin42> OY1R: Good luck
<popey> Morning
<_serial_> Hi all :) I don't suppose you guys/gals know of any editor that can change the Unity panel colour?  At current I'm changing via CSS and the unity.css located in /usr/share/themes/
<_serial_> The dash is covered via ubuntu-tweak
<_serial_> but no panel :(
<popey> _serial_: myunity?
<_serial_> thank you popey :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> howdy AlanBell
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya folks
 * dwatkins waits patiently for his Raspberry Pi to arrive
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: PI!
 * MartijnVdS assembled a case yesterday
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> I also ordered a case from ModMyPi, which I should get later this month.
<MartijnVdS> I have the Shropshire LUG one
<MartijnVdS> http://shropshirelug.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/raspberry-pi-cases-now-available-5/
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251053134771#
<dwatkins> very nice :)
<popey> i removed the cover from mine
<popey> so i can get to the connectors inside
<MartijnVdS> popey: yeah I might do that too
<Myrtti> lol
<popey> its still structurally sound
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: lawl?
<dwatkins> popey: completely, or just part of the cover?
<Myrtti> I baked pie cases yesterday  ;-)
<popey> the whole top
<MartijnVdS> popey: Or I might get the Adafruit case http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/05/29/raspberry-pi-case-preview/
<popey> yeah, it makes it look like that adafruit one
<MartijnVdS> it has a ribbon cable output
<Myrtti> Adafruit one looks good
<MartijnVdS> I love how there's an entire industry growing around it
<MartijnVdS> hardware people making cases, software people porting their distros, etc.
<popey> thats kinda the idea âº
<popey> but its no different than arduino or beagle is it?
<popey> more mainstream perhaps?
<kvarley> popey: Difference is - the Raspberry Pi Foundation aren't getting a huge chunk of profit
<MartijnVdS> popey: I didn't know about Arduino and Beagle before they were released
<directhex> no, broadcom are :p
<popey> nobody gets huge profit with arduino or beagle either
<popey> yeah, raspi is to broadcom as beagle is to TI
<directhex> pi is what happens when a major set-top box manufacturer cancels an order after the chips are at the fab
<popey> and the other one.. panda
<kvarley> popey: With the beagleboard-xm somebody has to, I mean - Â£140 for the board. The components and distribution can't cost that much, can they?
 * kvarley has a beagleboard-xm
 * popey has a beaglebone
<kvarley> hehe
<popey> not 140 quid
 * directhex has an efikamx
<directhex> freescale powah!
<kvarley> popey: My beagleboard-xm was Â£140 from Farnell
 * MartijnVdS imagines popey's house to be made out of computers
<kvarley> Beaglebone is lower in price? Â£80?
<popey> no, i mean the comparable beaglebone
<popey> yeah
<kvarley> I think all these small boards/devices that are springing up are amazing - especially for getting Linux ... well ... even more domination xd
<popey> or android âº
<popey> that new VIA one looks interesting
<directhex> android Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> what are these things gonna run other than the linux kernel? windows ce?
<kvarley> popey: have you seen the Linux Mint PC announcement? fanless, small form factor - looks promising
<MartijnVdS> directhex: aka "wince" 8-)
<kvarley> directhex: Microsoft would have you believe it could run Windows 8 ... yeah right
<popey> kvarley: i have
<directhex> kvarley, well, not really, windows 8 arm has *very* exact requirements, which no Â£30 board will match
<popey> mint has no mass-market future IMO
<kvarley> directhex: I bet their requirements are too low as well. For example, you can't run windows 7 without a minimum of 2GB RAM and even that's not enough lol
<directhex> kvarley, they've done a decent job with the WP7 requirements. i can't imagine W8 ARM being different
<kvarley> popey: True - although - do you think Ubuntu has?
<popey> yes, of course
<popey> I can't see any tier-1 vendor shipping mint
<directhex> mint, the distro with all the stuff ubuntu can't legally ship, shipping on hardware?
<directhex> this can't possibly go wrong 8D
<kvarley> I think Ubuntu needs to target lower power devices again ... i.e. make it faster on common slower harware. Aside from that I'm totally itching to get my hands on an Android  phone with Ubuntu on it
<popey> why?
<popey> whats the lowest spec desktop you can buy now?
<popey> or laptop
<kvarley> popey: 1.6 GHz dual core with 2 GB ram ?
<MartijnVdS> good enough for Ubuntu \
<kvarley> I can't run unity on that hardware
<MartijnVdS> you can
<popey> i run it on lower
<kvarley> Or at least, I can't run it without waiting a while for each menu
<directhex> dash is slow on any hardware.
<MartijnVdS> I made the cheapest PC I could find, with an AMD on-board graphics thing
<directhex> well, maybe not with an ssd
<MartijnVdS> worked out of the box
<popey> not everyone buys the lowest spec machine
<kvarley> True
<directhex> takes about a second on this i7
<kvarley> I have no issues with unity other than maybe it could be more optimised
<popey> yeah, it could always be faster âº
<kvarley> I suspect that hardware I said it can't run on is failing anyway
<kvarley> GPU runs at 75 degrees celcius and the fans are always running really fast
 * kvarley needs to get rid of it lol
<MartijnVdS> clear the dust out of it
<popey> i cant see a tablet or phone running a full ubuntu desktop stack
<kvarley> popey: Unity got ported to Open GL ES so maybe it'd work on tablets
<directhex> kvarley, 75 isn't much for a GPU
<directhex> therman cutout on a geforce is >100
<kvarley> directhex: It's in a netbook tho so it burns to touch it lol
<popey> yeah, maybe
<popey> oh and there's elementary OS too just out..
<popey> it does amuse me that these ubuntu derivatives claim LTS status.
 * popey wonders who is responsible for the non-ubuntu bits in 5 years time
<MartijnVdS> popey: you will be
<popey> nope âº
<dwatkins> has anyone here used the GPIO header on the Pi yet?
<dwatkins> Just curious as to what applications it can have.
 * popey installs arduino (and thus java) on his arm based laptop
 * popey wonders how badly this will run
<dwatkins> An ARM based laptop? What is this witchcraft? ;)
<popey> its an old toshiba ac100
<popey> ships with android
<popey> !ac100
<popey> bah, stupid bot
<dwatkins> ah I see, for a second I thought you might have built a laptop out of a RaspPi, popey :)
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> I have discussed the possibility of fitting a RaspPi with a 7-inch screen and bluetooth keyboard into one of those kids' laptop cases with someone I know.
<popey> heh
<popey> i always wanted to put a cell phone in a kids toy phone
<dwatkins> http://is03.thegumtree.com/image/big/107643459.jpg and http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/winfun-laptop-junior-cow
<popey> buzz_: happy birthday!
<buzz_> heh thanks popey :)
<buzz_> im not really sat on irfc on my bd. just checking in before my bath
<dwatkins> many happy returns, buzz_
<buzz_> :)
<popey> yay, arduino works on arm
<buzz_> popey, done much with your raspberry pi? just got mine - although still in its box
<buzz_> i need to get a case, i saw you posted about one the other day that looks nice
<popey> not a lot
<popey> yeah MartijnVdS has the same case, we were talking about it earlier here
<buzz_> i wanted to play with xbmc on the pi, and perhaps as a router also
<popey> kvarley: has made an image of openelec with xbmc on board
<popey> http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/
<kvarley> popey: =]
<kvarley> Only thing you may need to do is after the first boot resize your second partition to fill the card.
<buzz_> nice
 * popey pinps that a bit
<popey> *pimps
<kvarley> I'm working on a boot script to do it automatically for the next revision
<popey> you on G+ kvarley ?
<kvarley> popey: have an account but never use it
<popey> ok
<dwatkins> automatic resize sounds really handy
<dwatkins> I assume that would be with resizefs
<kvarley> dwatkins: yup
<kvarley> The openelec automatically checks for /storage/.config/autostart.sh
<buzz_> i started backported the libjpegturbo stuff from xbmc mainline to xbmc4xbox. massive difference for image viewing and especially thumbnailing. seems to be a memory leak though in my code. erg
<popey> kvarley: you might get some more hits now âº
<kvarley> So I'm just gonna add a hook to call a resize function
<kvarley> popey: hehe - why?
<popey> kvarley: tweeted it and G+'ed it
<kvarley> popey: Thank you =]
<kvarley> popey: I'm nearly in a position to automate the build and upload process
<popey> oh thats even better
<popey> daily builds
<kvarley> Just looking at the ubuntu one api
<bigcalm> Hullo peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<kvarley> Can it really be as simple as "resize2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2" ? lol
<dwatkins> you need to edit the fstab data first
<dwatkins> as I understand it, resize2fs grows the partition to fill the space indicated by the new partition table, but it must begin at the same exact byte as the filesystem starts
<bigcalm> popey: have I been missing much?
<kvarley> dwatkins: you're right
<kvarley> dwatkins: For my purposes I can just remove the partition and make a new one which is proportional to the device's size
<dwatkins> ah ok cool, kvarley
<popey> bigcalm: oh, you're "back" back?
<bigcalm> popey: back in merry old England, in my office, trying not to work
<bigcalm> Also, I'm not using bigcalm_laptop ;)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: get out of your house. Or at least off the computer :P
<bigcalm> Pendulum: I will once Hayley has stopped using her computer :P
<kvarley> popey: Resize script is a no-go
<kvarley> popey: Can't seem to unmount the second partition after boot
 * AlanBell plays with a pi
<penguin42> doing anything fun with it?
<AlanBell> making several debian SD cards at the moment
<AlanBell> I was trying to install gnome on it, but I got in a bit of a muddle
<AlanBell> I might end up using it as an irssi terminal in the office
<AlanBell> and as a general always on thing I can get to in the office, maybe with a webcam attached to it
<AlanBell> it seems a class 10 SD card really is quite a lot faster than a class 4 SD card
<penguin42> 2.5 times faster?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Be a little careful, there are apparently some that are fast at specific things - like single streams (optimised for video, great at dd speed but not great for file access)
<AlanBell> well with the class 4 ones it seems to be taking longer to get onto the card than it did to download
<penguin42> AlanBell: Some SD cards are AWFULlY slow, and some SD interfaces are awful, put the two together and you may as well be using punch card
<popey> AlanBell: which class 10 device do you have?
<AlanBell> popey: an oggcamp vintage 16GB class 10 SD card from the cameras
<penguin42> AlanBell: https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/Kernel/Projects/FlashCardSurvey    has some details and a bit of a survey
<AlanBell> it took 724.841 seconds to dd the pi debian image to the class 4 device. will try the class 10 again shortly after I grow the partitions on this one
<penguin42> AlanBell: I assume you were using a decent blocksize?
<AlanBell> no, forgot about that
<AlanBell> hmm, maybe it isn't massively faster
<AlanBell> anyhow, I will let this run on the class 10, then repeat with a block size set
<penguin42> oh, use a bs of at least 128k
<popey> does blocksize make a big difference?
<AlanBell> 378.601 s for the class 10 device with default blocksize
<penguin42> what size is your file?
<AlanBell> 1.9GB
<penguin42> AlanBell: I mean that's not too bad - 5MB/s
<AlanBell> 69.5577 s with a 1MB blocksize
<AlanBell> 28MB/s
<AlanBell> on the class 10 SD card
<penguin42> AlanBell: It's very difficult to know - I mean a class 10 card is supposed to mean 10 MB/s (according to wikipedia) - so who the heck knows what's going on
<AlanBell> well clearly block size makes a huge difference
<AlanBell> trying the class 4 with a 1M blocksize
<AlanBell>  228.404 s for the class 4 with 1M blocksize
<AlanBell> I wish stuff on SD cards and USB cards didn't require sudo access
<penguin42> ?
<AlanBell> maybe it should, but with gparted and dd I could so easily be installing a raspberry pi image on sda by accident
<AlanBell> that would be a bad thing
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'm sure you could set up a udev rule appropriately
<AlanBell> 135.117 s for a class 8 card
<MartijnVdS> I needs more CPU!
<MartijnVdS> Video encoding + RAW image decoding = ouch @ i3
<AlanBell> yeah, that is nearly as processor intensive as adding a file to Ubuntu One
<AlanBell> 414.804 s to copy the image to an elderly unrated 2GB SD card
<AlanBell> whilst uploading stuff to Ubuntu One so my processor was maxed out
<MartijnVdS> wut
<MartijnVdS> how is that cpu-bound and not network-bound?
<AlanBell> I have no idea
<AlanBell> it has calmed down a bit, but it was sending the fans crazy
<AlanBell> it was a folder of 331MB and 29,000 files so maybe it was doing lots of hashing and stuff first
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski, got your bunting up?
<czajkowski> ah no :)
<czajkowski> so not very me
<AlanBell> I now have 5 assorted SD cards with debian raspberry pi images on them
<MartijnVdS> \o/ firmware bug in DSL modem fixed
<MartijnVdS> I can now connect it to my gbit switch without link dropping 30% of the time
<ali1234> bastion is up in the software centre :D
<ali1234> popey: using lowest available spec to buy as an excuse for dropping hardware support is a bad idea because once you go down that path you can justify it at every release
<ali1234> supposing i buy that lowest-possible-spec machine today. ok, fine, ubuntu runs on it
<ali1234> then in six months it's upgrade time, but since the machine is no longer available, ubutu no longers runs on it
<ali1234> so if i can only afford the cheapest machines i'm now trapped in a cycle of buying a new computer every 6 months
<MartijnVdS> that's why you run LTS, so you don't have to upgrade for 5 years
<ali1234> this is bad for obvious reasons
<ali1234> LTS is not a solution, the software is extremely out of date
<MartijnVdS> not yet..
<MartijnVdS> also, backports will exist
<ali1234> you may as well say to use puppy linux or something
<AlanBell> so what is the solution ali1234
<MartijnVdS> Make it work on 386-SX-16s
<ali1234> this is a slippery slope and at the bottom there's a message that says "don't use ubuntu if your computer is over 1 year old"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but Ubuntu works fine on my 2-year old machine
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and my 4-year old one
<ali1234> AlanBell: the solution is to force all developers to use machines with VGA graphics and 256MB of memory
<AlanBell> heh, no!
<ali1234> someone always brings out the 386 strawman every time this issue is raised
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Where do you draw the line then?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: because you do have to draw a line somewhere
<ali1234> you draw the line at anything purchasable up to 5 years ago
<MartijnVdS> 386, etc. is exaggerated.. but Pentium 1 MMX-233? Pentium III-400?
<ali1234> as opposed to anything purchasable today
<ali1234> nope, none of those
<MartijnVdS> So Pentium IV at least?
<ali1234> yeah, sounds good
<ali1234> basically, by supporting anything you could buy 5 years ago, you ensure that anything you buy new today will be supported by the latest ubuntu in 5 years
<MartijnVdS> I have a P4 that works fine. Unity is 2D, but that's because of the ancient NVidia card
<ali1234> i never said that it wouldn't
<MartijnVdS> then what's the problem? :)
<MartijnVdS> because that P4 is from '03 or '04 I think
<ali1234> the problem is that "you can't buy those any more" is too often used as an excuse for poor programming
<ali1234> and whenever i call anyone on it they trot out the 386 strawman
<MartijnVdS> Find a better way to call them on it ;)
<ali1234> and then refuse to commit to a reasonable middle ground
<MartijnVdS> "But they're still around and common"?
<ali1234> yes, hence the 5 year limit
<diplo> afternoon all
<ali1234> directhex: does bastion use that xna/gamepad library you were talking about packaging the other day?
<Azelphur> wtf lol, amazon just emailed me they want me to submit a review for a gift card xD
<ali1234> directhex: GamepadBridge.dll and MonoGame.Framework.Linux.dll, that's it isn't it?
<ali1234> wonder why it doesn't work...
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/145615/how-to-make-xbox-joypad-work-with-bastion
<ali1234> i tried to debug this by building monogame from source, but bastion uses a modified version and because it is MS-PL licensed, they didn't release their modifications
<ali1234> so i can't compile it with debugging to figure out why it doesn't work
<penguin42> did someone say there was something like a cut down base ubuntu install available in 12.04 ?
<penguin42> oh, tgz only not iso?
<penguin42> right, time to reinstall one of my dads machines; last reinstalled in '03 with debian and upgraded ever since
<palnj> hello people!
<penguin42> Hi
<popey> penguin42: ubuntu-core, yeah, no kernel in it either
<penguin42> popey: Oh right, ok, I'll go with a desktop image and see what happens; it's getting MATEd after I get the base install on
<popey> â¨
<Laney> g'day MATE
<popey> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913
<popey> interesting device
<directhex> ali1234, yes, it does
<directhex> ali1234, bastion needs an opengl 2.1 capable 3d driver, so if you're on intel, it won't fly
<palnj> AlanBell: I finally managed to get some stamps for that CD and the RAM :)
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> you get 12.04 now
<directhex> ali1234, monogame upstream has two opengl codepaths, one for opengl 1.1, and one for 2.0 - bastion's monogame isn't the same as the upstream 2.5 release, and also the 1.1 codepath isn't very well tested
 * AlanBell reminds people of http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<directhex> since real computers can do 2.0
<ali1234> directhex: what does opengl have to do with my joypad?
<palnj> that's cool, i recently had to reflash my PC's HDD with Vista...
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/145615/how-to-make-xbox-joypad-work-with-bastion
<directhex> ali1234, i assumed you were having the usual issues people report w/ bastion
<ali1234> no, it works perfectly except for joypad
<directhex> i'll try with my pad
<ali1234> basically, the game makes noises when i press buttons, but that's it
<ali1234> it's like it recognises the pad but doesn't understand what any of the buttons are
<palnj> So yeah, it should be in the post by tomorrow, AlanBell, and then I'll actually be able to use that piece of junk PC in the basement.
<directhex> ali1234, okay, i can repro the issue
<ali1234> what type of pad?
<directhex> xbox 360 wired pad
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> if anything would work, that should
<directhex> trying to force the issue
<ali1234> monogame does detect joypad type by looking for "x-box" or "microsoft" in the name
<ali1234> so perhaps it only affects x-box controllers, and the other code path works?
<ali1234> even though yurs is 360 and mine is classic...
<directhex> let me see if i can get a joypad test built against monogame
<ali1234> i've already done that
<ali1234> with monogame trunk my pad works, but bastion needs a modded monogame
<ali1234> or are you gonna build against their modded one?
<directhex> erk... i can do
<directhex> didn't know you'd tested that far!
<directhex> you might want to report a bug with supergiant then
<penguin42> hmm it doesn't like that - won't get past the boot/ do you want to install/try etc screen - maybe try a xubuntu cd
<penguin42> when I hit return on the 'install ubuntu' what does it actually do at that point - how much of the iso does it read into RAM?
<directhex> penguin42, the alternate installer?
<penguin42> no, main
 * penguin42 has a nasty feeling that the problem is that it's reading the stick at USB1
<penguin42> it's got to the desktop now - after 5min+
<penguin42> I think the USB interface that will boot is the USB1 interface - the give away is if you unplug the USB stick after a few mins then you get errors about failed to do block reads
<popey> penguin42: how much ram does the machine have?
<penguin42> popey: 2GB
 * popey shakes his head at yet another UEFI thread
<penguin42> popey: I think it's that the standard installer can't cope with USB1.1; I'll file a bug after I get the damn thing installed - a) It doesn't give  any feedback in the section after hitting return on the 'install ubuntu...' and b) because USB1.1 is so slow lightdm times out
<popey> why are you using a USB 1.1 port?
<penguin42> popey: It won't boot off the USB2 addin card
<popey> it doesnt have any native USB 2 ports?
<penguin42> popey: I don't think so
<popey> golly
<penguin42> popey: Using Xubuntu installer DVD booted OK and started the installer OK, although the installer is crashing (with no logs) - but I think that's the xubuntu installer, I'm going to burn a Ubuntu DVD and try that
<penguin42> popey: Machine is 2003 vintage; 2GHz Athlon, now has 2GB RAM (added over the years), a USB-2 addin card
<popey> retro
<popey> 2GHz in 2003 doesn't sound right
<popey> I didnt get 2GHz until 4 years ago iirc
<penguin42> popey: Yeh it does - nothing has happened for the last 10 years in clock speed
<popey> mind you, thats a laptop
<penguin42> popey: Actually, it's 1.8GHz, Athlon XP2200+
<mattt> evening
<popey> lo
<mattt> popey: breaking anything interesting this evening?
<mattt> :)
<popey> heh, no
<penguin42> sigh - I can see I'm going to have to debootstrap this one like the other machine
<popey> penguin42: tried the mini iso?
<penguin42> which mini iso?
<penguin42> popey: This ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<dogmatic69> anyone using the Ethernet over mains, can you recommend one and tell me if there is a limit to the number of them you can use
<penguin42> popey: I'll give it a go after my (imminent) shower - thanks
<popey> penguin42: sorry, yes, that one
 * hamitron loves the mini cd
<czajkowski> herrrro
<czajkowski> popey: how are you getting to the tower tomorow?
<AlanBell> ooh, best viewpoint in the city I should think
<czajkowski> hope so
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/X2tNkxyBMyy nyomtastic
<AlanBell> who got to lick the spoon?
<mattt> what happens tomorrow, boat parade ?
<AlanBell> yeah, flotilla and royal barge thing
<AlanBell> canonical is on the 27th floor of Millbank tower and has a great view of the river
<Seeker`> Oooh, Alien just started on C4
<czajkowski> AlanBell: jon
<mattt> sweet, will canonical be open to the public?
<mattt> :P
<AlanBell> http://www.techdrivein.com/2012/02/no-more-dodge-windows-in-unity-global.html looks like this
<mattt> AlanBell: i want me a view like that at work!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: not surprised :)
<czajkowski> mattt: nope
<czajkowski> AlanBell: he got the choclate one
<czajkowski> didnt want the one which had choclate and marshmallows and bisuits in it
 * AlanBell spots another bug with the annoying and badly implemented top bar shadow :(
<popey> czajkowski: train
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot%20from%202012-06-02%2023:21:03.png it pops up *over* an impress slide when using the presenter console
<AlanBell> naughty shadow
<popey> i wish that shadow would die
<popey> czajkowski: bought tickets a couple of days ago, 8 quid each for adults 1 quid for each kid
<popey> super cheap
<popey> also, wow, presenter mode works?
<AlanBell> bug 956863
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 956863 in unity (Ubuntu) "Top panel shadow is drawn above presentation when using LO Impress with Presenter Console" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956863
<AlanBell> presenter mode works perfectly
<AlanBell> as do the openGL transitions
<AlanBell> and they both might be in by default in quantal
<popey> nice
<popey> oh, not in 12.04?
<AlanBell> not on the CD
<AlanBell> !info libreoffice-presenter-console
<lubotu3> libreoffice-presenter-console (source: libreoffice (1:3.5.3-0ubuntu1)): LibreOffice Impress extension for a separate presenter's console. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.0+LibO3.5.3-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 664 kB, installed size 3848 kB
 * popey installs
<AlanBell> !info libreoffice-ogltrans
<lubotu3> libreoffice-ogltrans (source: libreoffice): LibreOffice Impress extension for transitions using OpenGL. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:3.5.3-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 66 kB, installed size 306 kB
<AlanBell> they are dropping a bunch of template stuff and giving back space to the CD, I suggested they give with one hand and take with the other :)
<AlanBell> still giving back a decent net reduction in space
<penguin42> popey: hmm, there don't seem to be sums or signed sums in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/  which is where that mini.iso is
<popey> penguin42: they should be on that wiki page
<popey> yes, they are
<penguin42> popey: Ah yes, it has the MD5 and SHA, and the page is on an https site so I guess that's OK
<penguin42> ish
<AlanBell> night all o/
<penguin42> nn AB
<popey> nn
<czajkowski> popey: cool into vauxhaull station or waterloo ?
<popey> both
<popey> going to waterloo and changing to vauxhall
<popey> then walk over bridge
<czajkowski> nods
<popey> hope the kids dont get bored â¨
<czajkowski> think we may end doing similar
<czajkowski> westminster bridge is open for us
<czajkowski> sorry tube to westminster and then walk
<czajkowski> popey: they wont and I'm sure others will have kids also
<czajkowski> I made cake
<czajkowski> not sure how its gonna turn out
<penguin42> cake is good
<penguin42> the Times (yesterday?) had a recipie/design for a cake that assembled into a union jack
<popey> hah
<directhex> union flag
<penguin42> carefully cut slices of raspberry and blueberry sponge
<directhex> and hang from the jackstaff of your ship?
 * penguin42 doesn't have a ship, and it might be a bit large for that (if I made it)
<popey> bet its going to rain loads of cloud cover will be low so we see nothing âº
<popey> nvm, cake and stuff
<Laney> partay
<czajkowski> popey: aye does loook pretty wet up here alright
<czajkowski> but so muggy
<daftykins> what are you lot up to D:
<popey> daftykins: canonical are having a party at Millbank tower tomorrow
<popey> to say goodbye because we're moving out
<popey> and it turns out there's some royal party going on, on the thames, on the same day
<directhex> i'm busy not going to bed
<directhex> this is fine, because new fathers do not need sleep
<popey> directhex: when's it due?
<daftykins> popey: ah interesting
<daftykins> heh 'it'
<directhex> popey, end of the month. however, arrival was on wednesday.
<popey> oh, congrats
<popey> what flavour was the derivative?
<czajkowski> ROFLOL
<Seeker`> mmmm, mint
<dogmatic69> When converting an image from svg to png with `convert` is it possible to scale the svg before the conversion?
<dogmatic69> I an using `convert file.svg -resize 1000 file.png` for example, but if the .svg is saved as 100px it is very grainy.
<dogmatic69> would prefer to not open and edit (300+) svg files
<penguin42> popey: Yeh! Debian installer wins
<directhex> popey, all the data has been on twitter. you must not follow me on twitter. SHAMEFUL
<dogmatic69> imagemagic not doing it, inkscape works well though
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-03
<penguin42> well, dads machine mostly ok - although wth his flash is crashing reliably, every time is a separate question
<daftykins> boo flash
<penguin42> indeed, but he does watch things like news.bbc - but I've never seen it crash like this before; it's not even giving a grey block; it's just not appearing at all, not even taking space up - and there is an entry appearing each time in .mozilla/Crash Reports
<daftykins> tried a clean FF profile?
<penguin42> no, but it was a fresh install
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I am using chrome on ubuntu 11.10, I am unable to launch jnlp file. Any known issue?
<MartijnVdS> My X ! Ti's broken!
<MartijnVdS> Random characters and parts of windows are disappearing
<MartijnVdS> apparently ran out of graphics memory (according to xorg.0.log)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<directhex> yes, it is
 * brobostigon point at the rain outside.
<brobostigon> points*
<directhex> rain shmain. sounds like today might be the day we get to leave hospital
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> i'm going to go buy some nappies. woo, nappies.
<brobostigon> lol
<DaveMorris1> Hi all,  I'm trying to upgrade from Lucid to Pecise (desktop) and it can't find the release.  I've checked /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades and it is set to lts, update and upgrade to the latest lucid.  But still get "No new release found" after running sudo do-release-upgrade
<MartijnVdS> you might need to run
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PreciseUpgrades#Upgrade_from_11.10_to_12.04_LTS_and_10.04_LTS_to_12.04_LTS
<DaveMorris1> I needed to use the -d flag
<DaveMorris1> since it won't appear as an upgrade until the .1 release
<kvarley> Long shot
<kvarley> But what could a 3 pin cable be coming out of my psu?
<Nafallo> kvarley: fan monitoring?
<kvarley> Nafallo: For the PSU's fan?
<kvarley> There is one coming out of the ATX power connector for the motherboard too which is weird
<MartijnVdS> Everyone is at/watching/celebrating the jubilee?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: me,sort of.. I was going to swim ahead of them on the Thames... but the water's too cold ;)
<SuperEngineer> so I'm watchin on magic picture box
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: BBC One HD here
<SuperEngineer> [& celebrating by raising a glass]
<SuperEngineer> BBC LD here
 * MartijnVdS drinks some tea, despite being Dutch
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: reminds me of the chap that interrupted the oxford/cambridge boat race.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that _wasn't_ SuperEngineer ?
<SuperEngineer> [nope, that wasn't me]
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i doubt it. :)
<SuperEngineer> they seek him here, they seek him there.....
<MartijnVdS> if he's really a super engineer, his submarine would've worked properly? ;)
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineers don'rt need submarines
<SuperEngineer> [just a spell checker ;)]
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] A handy postcard-sized guide to programming languages - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/29693.html
<SuperEngineer> commentator remarks "The Duke of Edinburgh just out of shot"!  Is the duke shooting the oideons or the noisy ones in the crowd?
<SuperEngineer> *pidgeons
<SuperEngineer> ooo nice steam train salute
<SuperEngineer> oo lots of wet stuff falling from sky here at home - hope it doesn't head London's way
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: SuperEngineer laughs
<AlanBell> o/ popey and czajkowski
<AlanBell> we can see the window you are looking out of
<SuperEngineer> oi! that's just posing
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski pictures from Millbank
<Flashtek> o/
<SuperEngineer> Queenie says "Dear God, One's anthem clearly states 'God save the Queen' NOT 'God freeze the Queen'". One could ged pee'd off, you know.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: That is why the Queen values the commonwealth so much, well not Canada, but most of the places are warmer and drier
<MartijnVdS> Oh look, there's parliament. Ready cannons.
<brobostigon> lol
<SuperEngineer> o! not aiming at me you fools, this is one's special day!
<MartijnVdS> Queen_UK's twitter account++
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: loved the "cut glass with..." tweet  ;)
<SuperEngineer> [made I giggle]
 * SuperEngineer congrats National Theatre... that was impressive
<AlanBell> nice horse wasn't it
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: yup
<SuperEngineer> well that was impressive.. but none of more so than Britannia launch being saluted by Britannia choo choo on bridge
<SuperEngineer> hey - who inserted the "of" in that - doh!
<Azelphur> think I might buy a GTX 680, I hear they solve all the quad screen issues
<Azelphur> I asked on nvnews, and an nvidia rep literally just replied with "Yes." xD
<SuperEngineer> How many roads must a man walk down? None sir, One goes by boat!
<SuperEngineer> ahmm:  AlanBell,popey & czajkowski - now go get out there in the rain and enjoy it ;)
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: I am sat at home watching the telly
<SuperEngineer> ok AlanBell - you win
<SuperEngineer> [so it's just "the guilty two" then... go get wet folks!
<SuperEngineer> it also explains the regular tweets... thouht you'd developed a "secretary script" ;)
<Azelphur> If I buy something from inside EU I don't get charged customs right?
<BigRedS> Azelphur: nope
<BigRedS> well, I never have and I understand that to be deliberate
<Azelphur> cool :)
<SuperEngineer> Just noticed - a few of the boats in the jubilee regatta are dipping *way* below their load lines - as in unsafe load
<dogmatic69> anyone used / looked at free nas? http://www.freenas.org/
<dogmatic69> looks pretty good
<SuperEngineer> Land of hope & glory" in the rain - against all odds, & now Rule Brittania - makes ya proud!
<SuperEngineer> oh YES - one likes this last trick! Now clap! even Her Maj is smiling.
<SuperEngineer> ...and that is how you do pageantry!
<dogmatic69> Prince Philip was doing a bit of foot tapping to that track
<brobostigon> they were all getting jiggy, as my mum put it.
<czajkowski> evil rain
<penguin42> czajkowski: I think she may have noticed the irony in long may she rain over us
<SuperEngineer> and to bring everybody back to reality: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18316130#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Are nigerian passenger planes known for being airworthy?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no - but not for crashing into buildings in Lagos while carrying 162 passengers
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well, actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_on_commercial_airliners_grouped_by_location#Nigeria   you're right, they normally don't hit the buildings
<SuperEngineer> penguin42 you are missing a soul - why not hunt for it on Wikisoul
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I tried, they didn't have one that would fit
<SuperEngineer> i guessed that
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Lots of people die every day, it's a bad thing of course it is, but I'm not going to be too surprised by a 3rd world airliner crashing; there are over 2000 people killed on the roads in the UK each year - you can't feel bad about every death
<penguin42> (* unless you were the guy flying/servicing the aircraft....)
 * SuperEngineer wonders if banning bigotry  racism could be extended to comments such as the above
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Apologies - my intention is not to offend; but I really can't let every bad thing in the world upset me; there are too many bad things
<popey> evening
<directhex> howdy
<penguin42> evenin
<MartijnVdS> \o
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<MartijnVdS> CM 7.2-RC3 is out
<directhex> android :(
<MartijnVdS> directhex: WinPhone user?
<directhex> yes!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo
<Laney> meow
<Laney> popey: is there a unity release schedule?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: ?
<Laney> also how was MB?
<Laney> if I remembered it was flotilla day I might have gone :(
 * Laney gnaws on MartijnVdS 
 * MartijnVdS runs away
<MartijnVdS> darn zombies
<directhex> i was in the hopsital :(
<MartijnVdS> uh oh..
 * Laney rubs delicious marinade on directhex 
<Laney> are they coming home soon? :(
<mattt> directhex: hospital why ?
<directhex> Laney, was going to be today, but they revoked access due to blood pressure
<popey> Laney: no, but there will be soon
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I got all the patches together to fix the current ftbfs and was wondering if it's worthwhile uploading
<czajkowski> directhex: what did you have a boy or girl?
 * czajkowski waves at popey how did ye get on at Vauxhall?
<directhex> czajkowski, boy
<popey> Laney: oooh! for unity on quantal?
<Laney> ja
<czajkowski> directhex: lovely! name?
<popey> love you
<directhex> czajkowski, nathan
<Laney> i think nux needs bumping to use the new boost too
<popey> let didrocks know pls
<Laney> but that's no-change
<Laney> aye
<popey> yes, there is that
<Laney> some of the patches were his too
<Laney> i'll whack it up once the crumble is in
<Laney> om nom rhubarb
<popey> he was working on the ftbfs last week
<popey> nom!
<popey> and parp
<popey> czajkowski: that was most odd
<popey> czajkowski: see my fb/G+ status about it
<dwatkins> http://www.themagpi.com/ looks interesting, popey - in case you hvn't seen it already
<Steve__> Hi, I'm new to Ubuntu
<Steve__> I was wondering if it is possible to uninstall the IM service included with 12.04
<Steve__> There's a lot of web-based add-ons included with ubuntu I don't want to keep
<Steve__> I think the chat software is called pidgon
<bigcalm> Beep
<penguin42> Beeeee  Beep!
<bigcalm> DFS >_
<penguin42> *.
<bigcalm> That's about as much as I remember without looking things up
<dwatkins> I thought my Tomtom needed new imagery, so I put this on it from a BBC Micro... http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7206087872_0265a13252.jpg
<penguin42> what's the res on the tomtom?
<dwatkins> I think mine is 320x240, penguin42
<penguin42> close to Mode1 :-)
<bigcalm> Heh, cute
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine you could run an emulator in theory, but you'd need some kind of keyboard
<penguin42> does it do bluetooth ?
<dwatkins> yeah, I think so
<penguin42> well there you go :-)
<dwatkins> indeed, although mine doesn't have an SD Card slot, so I'd use one which the storage can be replaced in.
 * penguin42 wonders why Tomtom's are still going given all the mobiles these days
<dwatkins> I prefer having a discrete device to do navigation that's separate from my phone.
<bigcalm> Doesn't rely upon a 'net connection
<dwatkins> Also, I don't want to have to download maps as I go (although I could install the Tomtom app on my phone, all 2 GB of it)
<bigcalm> Can hook into traffic situations
<dwatkins> The app is quite expensive, I think.
<dwatkins> also, it's not compatible with my phone.
<gord> you can make google maps cache areas now
<gord> so you just cache the areas you are gonna be in often
 * hamitron doesn't know which areas to cache, that he will get lost in
<dwatkins> yeah, I live in Scotland but don't know the area, so I'd prefer to have the entire country already on a device.
<hamitron> same
<hamitron> about having it all there I mean
 * bigcalm likes getting lost :)
<hamitron> get lost then ;)
<ali1234> ovi maps has always been able to do that
<ali1234> if you have a big enough SD card you can put ALL the maps on it
<dwatkins> The other difference between my Tomtom and my phone is that the windscreen mount for the Tomtom works several orders of magnitude better than the one for my phone ;)
<dwatkins> iirc the Tomtom app is Â£70.
<hamitron> I tried ovi maps on a phone.....
<hamitron> I had to travel at 50mph to get the directions given in time
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> in time? were you in a DeLorean, hamitron? ;)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> best I've used on a phone is route66 on my ngage
<dwatkins> ah, the iPhone Tomtom app is only Â£40...
<hamitron> but never tried the stuff that needs net connection
<hamitron> does that Â£40 lock the app to that phone?
<dwatkins> no, the app is tied to your iTunes account, so you can install it on another iPhone no problem.
<hamitron> is that the same for android apps?
<dwatkins> I believe so, yes.
<gbyers_> hamitron, yes
<hamitron> that is something I guess
<hamitron> :)
<dwatkins> hmm, doesn't look like there's a UK Tomtom app yet for Android.
<hamitron> :-o
 * hamitron crosses off android phone on his wish list and writes "iphone"
 * gbyers_ does not know why he is here it just logs him in automatically he is really in irc.twit.tv
<hamitron> you can't hide the fact you love been here
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> a feature helps you out with that
<gbyers_> hamitron, join us on irc.twit.tv
<hamitron> why?
<hamitron> I think I maybe got enough channels to troll already :)
<gbyers_> you can join in on the tech chat hamitron with Leo Laporte Live
<hamitron> who? ;/
 * hamitron is too lazy to move, sorry
<gbyers_> hamitron, have you never listendto this week in tech, tech news today , this week in google, FLOSS WEEKLY ?
<dwatkins> I used to listen to TWiT and Security Now.
<dogmatic69> how can I rename *.foo.bar to *.bar
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: with a regexp and the 'rename' command.
<gbyers_> dwatkins, its live now live.twit.tv
<dwatkins> cool
<stgraber> dogmatic69: rename "s/.foo.bar$/.bar/g" *
<dogmatic69> find ./ -exec rename <something> ?
<gbyers_> dwatkins, I think there is a show you would really like called floss weekly
<dogmatic69> stgraber: thanks
<dwatkins> thanks gbyers_, I'll check it out
<dwatkins> I may go back and listen to Security Now from the beginning, as they explained TCP/IP from the ground upwards.
 * penguin42 hands dwatkins a flock of pidgeons
<penguin42> and a hawk
<dwatkins> Network transport via avian carrier?
<gbyers_> dwatkins, yea its where they talk about open source software  http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yep, the hawk lets you get used to retries
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-27
<kaushal> Hi
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> hey drbalor
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> hello br
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> looks like we're the only ones here.
<brobostigon> seems so.
<Laney> blurg
<Laney> bank holiday gardening
<Laney> bleddy invasive ivy
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> at least it's nice weather for it
<Laney> yes!
<Laney> and now the little corner is clear for me herb garden
<czajkowski> am tempted t cut the front lawn
<czajkowski> or else go out and put the chickens there but they may fly away
<czajkowski> but my sudden onset of hay fever is leading me to not stop sneezing :/
<Laney> :(
<MooDoo> I'm stuck in an office.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: everyday?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858843728/)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol
<MooDoo> thanks
<MartijnVdS> This headline almost had me confused about the current state of science: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22678580
<penguin42> oh which film is it... Demolition man?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: read "graffiti" as "gravity"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh yeh that would be a bit different
<MartijnVdS> "anti-gravity drones?" "oh wait"
<penguin42> it would be an interesting way of dealing with graffiti artists
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: having a nice and quiet Monday while us Brits have had the day off?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, read some email
<MartijnVdS> and some email
<MartijnVdS> and some email
<MartijnVdS> and some email
<MartijnVdS> The first day back at work after holidays 8-)
<penguin42> yeh I'm back tomorrow after being off for just over a week - that's going to hurt
<MartijnVdS> I also got the CC bill for my week in England 8-)
<MartijnVdS> or should I say, :(
<SuperEngineer> phew.... & that's a complete borked system reinstalled, recovered from [various] backups & configured to my liking!
<SuperEngineer> ...so hi again world!   ;)
<MartijnVdS> hi SuperEngineer :)
<SuperEngineer> hi MartijnVdS  - nice to be back!
 * MartijnVdS wants Haswell to come out
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: That's going to hurt your credit card bill a lot more
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: nah, I have everything except motherboard, CPU, memory
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I think it'll hurt about the same
<penguin42> heck, you must have been contributing a lot to our economy....
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you seemed to need it 8-)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: judging by the state of some roads
<penguin42> ahem yes
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Where did you get to ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Land's End
<penguin42> doesn't that look the same as most other ends of other crinkly islands?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: our (Dutch) coast is mostly sand. And a few man-made stones in places.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Land's End and Lulworth Cove are quite different
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah you've mostly made your coast nice and straight
<MartijnVdS> straight is easy to monitor for leaks ;)
<penguin42> there is a straight canal somewhere near Cambridge that was built by the Dutch
<MartijnVdS> Who else :)
<isleofmandan> Hello. Any budding DJ's out there managed to get a Numark Omni Controller to work with Ubuntu?
<penguin42> I wouldn't know what one of those is or how to use it; and I'm not a DJ - but is it some form of controller?
<isleofmandan> Yes. Asking for a friend, who I've persuaded to try Ubuntu this afternoon. He loves it so far, except his DJ stuff won't work.
<isleofmandan> I'm trying to help him out, as I think I may have a potential Ubuntu convert :)
<penguin42> ok, but what is this beast - some type of keys/buttons/something?
<isleofmandan> http://www.numark.com/product/omnicontrol   As far as I can tell, the control events are all done via MIDI over USB...
<isleofmandan> but I might be wrong
<isleofmandan> He'd be happy with just the controls working. Soundcard stuff he can do elsewhere.
<penguin42> isleofmandan: There are loads of midi packages in the Ubuntu repos - I'm just not sure which are good/relevant
<isleofmandan> Neither am I... Just reading through Google hits at the moment. I popped in here just in case someone had solved this problem before!
<isleofmandan> Thanks anyway.
<popey> evening
<mungbean> evening
 * mungbean regrets going near the outdoors today
<mungbean> hayfeverish
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> evening bigcalm :)
<zleap> hiu
<bigcalm> What's happening kids?
<brobostigon> putting bbc2 on, to watch blackadder.
<bigcalm> Exciting
<brobostigon> bob.
<popey> boo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> i was at a dancing festival today (sophie's group are through to finals [yay]) and there were a surprisingly high number of mobile devices playing minecraft
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> did they discover it independently, or did you (or Sophie) tell them about it?
<popey> also, i saw a guy with a microsoft windows phone.. i said "ooh, that's probably the first microsoft phone I've seen in real life"
<popey> he said "I'm not surprised!"
<popey> turns out he works for nokia â¨
<MartijnVdS> popey: my coworkers are becoming addicted to the Google game.. ingress?
<popey> yeah, i have that
<popey> i dont play much
 * Myrtti offers popey a virtual surprise hug
<popey> \o/
<popey> I love surprise hugs
<bigcalm> popey: Going by your G+ posts, I thought you were in another country
<popey> i was
<popey> until saturday
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I found a tailor to make me a suit at a reasonable price. That's everything I need to arrange I think. Rest is up to Hayley now :)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: may I suggest these? http://www.adafruit.com/icufflinks
<bigcalm> dwatkins: cute
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-28
<knightwise> morning
<redtape|renegade> Grumblings :  ' Up all night after TT german bikers decided to have a bevies and swap road-hog stories from 10 years ago .. till 5a.m. (!!) . Some of them went for a swim after (??)
 * redtape|renegade grumbles GOOD morning...
<knightwise> morning
<redtape|renegade> knightwise: Morning, OT | Does anyone vape here ?
<knightwise> notme
<redtape|renegade> QUESTION: Would it be possible to have a disc version of Ubuntu that can fit on a 190MB disc, that can just download all the Ubuntu packages and trigger updates to be installed aswell ? i.e. So you can just give someone a Mini-CD or a business card sized disc and let them just 'net install' from there ? Weird question, but it's one of those " I'm feeling lucky " type-a queries .. :]
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> redtape|renegade: Isn't that the net install CD ?
<redtape|renegade> is it ?
 * diplo getting url
 * redtape|renegade starts googling .. silly redtape ..
<diplo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/12.04/
<redtape|renegade> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD  ?? right ?
<diplo> Or there is a 13.04 image as well
<diplo> Yep
<redtape|renegade> 30MB .. mmm pretty good . wiki doesn't say much .. Do I have to 'select' Opt In/Out of packages .. or is it all done for you ?
<diplo> You get a base install of enough to get the machine running and can select some to install I think, been a while since I used it
<diplo> But I normally go for totally empty install and install what I need as I go
<redtape|renegade> diplo: MMmm .. interesting. Just recalled I haven't tried installing Ubuntu on one of these yet for travelling/train  [ http://bit.ly/141p6xt ] as described here ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100#Misc_links
<diplo> Be worth getting a live cd to test functionality ?
<redtape|renegade> diplo: You mean official one/ DVD , or .. 'is there any point' ? Plz be specific .. I care not, but I'm just saying I like the device, unless you can think of a lighter/smaller one ?
<diplo> I Sorry hadn't read the second link, just scanning through it now
<diplo> Maybe worth chatting in their channel #ac100 ?
<redtape|renegade> your right, I will .. I was thinking of tinkering with another flavour next month anyway .. i.e. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu#ARM_(AC100)_Systems
<knightwise> Lubuntu - Arm ? on what ?
<redtape|renegade> knightwise: that was 9 mins ago .. but we are perhaps vearing OT.. ?
<knightwise> hmm.. i'm running standard 12.04 on my macbook air
<knightwise> roarin fast :)
<redtape|renegade> knightwise: Do all the keys work ?
<redtape|renegade> I say that 'cos I have a new apple keyboard . & that doesn't adapt well to ubuntu ..
<popey> Morning.
<AlanBell> morning
<knightwise> redtape|renegade: yep
<redtape|renegade> hi guys .. nice post AlanBell on G+
<knightwise> redtape|renegade: google "Knightwise Macbookair"
<knightwise> it will point you to an article on the installation and a post howto script
<redtape|renegade> right ..
<knightwise> http://knightwise.com/installing-ubuntu-on-a-macbook-air-an-updated-howto/
<dwatkins> Is there some issue with providing wifi drivers for Macbooks on the live USB image? They don't seem to work when booted from the ISO.
<knightwise> not that I know , but I do use the wired connection when installing.
<knightwise> then it works fine.
<knightwise> because they get teh wifi drivers from the repos
<dwatkins> yeah, I just wondered as I was hoping to have a persistent USB-based install
<dwatkins> I didn't have a cable to hand when I last tested booting via EFI.
<redtape|renegade> V. intelligent website knightwise .. how refreshing .. (well done. ) .. althou I could be forgetting I've seen it before ..
<popey> dwatkins: yes. non-open broadcom drivers / firmware, not on the ISO
<dwatkins> thanks popey - makes sense
<diplo> Anyone got any ideas, cut and pasting a perl script into a new file, hashes all the lines and moves them in a few tabs each time
<diplo> Using vi
<dwatkins> diplo: you mean auto-indenting? http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_stop_auto_indenting
<dwatkins> or more than just that?
<redtape|renegade> knightwise: Yes, I'm converted to that idea .. a 2008 Macb.- Air +  Ubuntu   sounds goods .. http://bit.ly/Zq5jvi
<diplo> auto indents each line and adds a hash to each line
<redtape|renegade> .. almost too good ..
<diplo> just reading that link
<diplo> heh none of the options work :/
<dwatkins> bah
<dwatkins> I assume if you paste into some other app, that the hashes don't appear
<diplo> I could go through it line by line but it happens on one site every time and I can't work out why :/
<dwatkins> i.e. that it's not some javascript thing changing what's being copied
<diplo> Yep, just one site and happens to all files
<diplo> Not sure if it's specific to vi, see if nano or something is installed
<dwatkins> I discovered a plugin for Chrome which blocks the annoying double-paste things where it forces you to put the URL when pasting
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> allo MooDoo
<diplo> OK, at least I've trimmed it down to a vi issues
<diplo> Just installed nano :(
<dwatkins> vi or vim? ;)
<dwatkins> also, is it specific to that user account?
 * dwatkins wonders if the spaces are really spaces or some hoopy unicode
<diplo> Good point, hadn't tried under root
<redtape|renegade> diplo, cheer up .. It's two 4 Tuesdays at dominoes tonight ! .. just sayin' ..
<diplo> Yuk :)
<redtape|renegade> diplo: Your prob.ly right .. the chicken is a long way from fresh ...
<dwatkins> I wish they'd make a pizza with coconut flour
<SuperMatt> ...
<SuperMatt> that sounds like the worst
 * redtape|renegade changes 'worst' for 'dumpster fire' .
 * redtape|renegade scurries off to do the weekly bins..
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<Laney> hahaha
<mungbean> anyone tried teh text trace service when expecting a package from amazon?
<Laney> I signed up for it but it has never text me yet
<Laney> some of the individual couriers do though
<mungbean> lolz
<mungbean> this one is citylink
<mungbean> You are signed-up for Text Trace to receive text messages between 7 AM and 8 PM when your delivery encounters a problem.
<mungbean> oh
<dwatkins> Citylink are liars
<mungbean> not what i expected
<mungbean> i wanted "your parcel is being put onto a van"
<mungbean> "is coming up the road"
<dwatkins> I've had plenty of texts from Amazon UK's delivery company DPD that were always pretty accurate.
<dwatkins> Not sure if you have to be signed up for Prime for that, though.
<Laney> yeah that's something else
<Laney> ho hum
<Laney> usually when mine have a problem amazone don't know about it because yodel are liars
<mungbean> don't think i'll need my parcel if the rain keeps up anyway
<popey> is your parcel a sun lounger?
<mgdm> I have no idea how or why Yodel are still in business - they changed names from HDNL because they had a hideous rep, but they've kept it up
<mungbean> it's an adult scooter
<mungbean> for getting to work quicker/more funly
<Laney> mgdm: i can only assume that amazon are locked into a contract
<Laney> or they are so cheap that it's worth taking the flak
<mgdm> last time I had something delivered from them we were out, they handed it to my next-door neighbour and didn't tell anyone - next door neighbours are students, though, so didn't bother to try to contact us as they're nocturnal
<mungbean> i have a strange neighbour who has a poor paying job and v expensive car that he drives around at 1am
<Laney> i've had the classic "left in the bin" on bin day, which the neighbours then kindly put out for me
<mgdm> :/
<Laney> got back in time for that one
<DJones> \o/ Benefit of working in the motor industry, free MOT's :)
<mgdm> DJones: nice. Now drive a car with no emissions and avoid VED, too :-)
<mgdm> (fvvo 'no')
<DJones> mgdm: You mean something like this http://goo.gl/sVGBk
<mgdm> heh
<DJones> I think my dad only pays Â£30/year for his car for a peugeot 3008
<mgdm> mine's a bit more than that :/
<DJones> I've got an old shape Picasso, 2 neighbours have got one with different engines, theirs are 1.6 Petrol engines, mine is a 2L diesel, they pay about Â£180/year, mine is Â£130, and people commonly say that diesel engines are dirtier than petrol
<mgdm> I think they're 'better' in terms of CO2 output, which is what VED cares about, but worse in terms of particulates
<DJones> One of the neighbours threatened to swap the engines overnight
<mgdm> heh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Thankfully it was the teaching assistant, rather than the mechanic who owns the the other picasso
<bigcalm> mgdm: heard of any hotel discounts for phpnw13? The website seems to be lacking such info this year
<directhex> dwatkins, amazon use every single courier depending on the item. dpd isn't exclusively amazon's
<mgdm> bigcalm: Not thus far
<bigcalm> mgdm: maybe I should hold off booking a room then
<mgdm> I've not looked at the site, yet - might be worth asking in #phpnw?
<dwatkins> directhex: ah ok, I seem to get them all the time, perhaps because of my location (Edinburgh)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<directhex> dwatkins, wish i got dpd more.
<directhex> dwatkins, we get APLE here. dreadful.
<Laney> AAPL
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Hamburger Day! :-)
<brobostigon> good morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<dwatkins> directhex: I stopped ordering from Firebox because they use Citylink.
<directhex> CITYLINK :D
<dwatkins> Citylink write on the website that they attempt delivery in the morning, but don't turn up, it's just to keep the beancounters happy, but it's a lie.
<dwatkins> Even getting stuff delivered to my office, which is staffed all the time during the day, is hassle with Citylink.
<directhex> general case: i like DPD/interlink because 1-hour delivery slots. i like royal mail because the depot is walking distance. beyond that, i'm not keen on couriers
<bigcalm> JamesTait: hamburger day?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, allegedly.
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Think I'll pass
<JamesTait> Looking outside, it feels more like a stew and dumplings day.
<mungbean> hayfever is still really bad though :(
<mungbean> after-effects of yesterday
<bigcalm> Lasagna for dinner I think
<mungbean> how many layers of lasagne is the acceptable amount?
<mungbean> ongoing discussion with wifey ont his
<bigcalm> Urk, dunno
<bigcalm> It'll be my future mother-in-law making it. I wouldn't argue with her about how many it should be ;)
<czajkowski> 4
<bigcalm> lower!
<mungbean> my wife did 1 or 2 until i suggested a bit more
<czajkowski> no lower makes it an odd number
<czajkowski> no likey the odds :p
<czajkowski> 1
<czajkowski> lordie
<mungbean> she basically put the mince /suace in and layer on top
<mungbean> like an italian pie top
<czajkowski> eh no that's not how it's done
<mungbean> no, now she puts more layers for me on my side
<mungbean> and does it her way on her side
<bigcalm> While looking for the correct spelling of lasagne, this popped up http://www.cookingclassy.com/2012/10/caprese-lasagna-roll-ups/
<mungbean> just like the pizza
<mungbean> i have no onions and v little tomato base
<mungbean> in the more classic european style
<mungbean> so we end up having very different looking halves of pizza
<mungbean> walkers deep ridged crisps 6 pack for a quid...mmmm
<bigcalm> I ordered a tailor made suit yesterday. So I'm not allowed to eat until after the wedding now
<mungbean> i would like to see how a tailored suit comes out on me
<mungbean> although off the peg in next is an excellent fit on me
<bigcalm> I do fear I might have spent a little much on a 3 piece suit for the wedding. Just hope I get more use out of it than for just 1 day
<mungbean> i hired one and got skanked royally
<mungbean> big mistake
<mungbean> anyone know of a fresh graduate looking for junior role?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: That looks lovely :-D making me feel hungry.
<mungbean> or maybe someone with 1/2 yrs experience looking for next step
<bigcalm> \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do
<bigcalm> davmor2: poorer having been to Wolverhampton yesterday
<davmor2> you came to wolverhampton and you did call in I'm disgusted ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: good weekend?
<bigcalm> davmor2: hah, I did wonder if I would spot you in town
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap chilled out watching gavin and stacey
<dwatkins> great show, that
 * TheOpenSourcerer went to see the new Star trek film last night. Was really good. Loads of action.
<mungbean> sent my wife to see the imax versino
<mungbean> found a Â£15 charge on my credit card
<bigcalm> We went to the 2D version. Much fun
<davmor2> dwatkins: I can thoroughly recommend it for anyone who has seen it.
<dwatkins> Â£15 doesn't surprise me for an IMAX showing.
<mgdm> the tickets for the IMAX 3D one I saw were a tenner each
<bigcalm> Next film we go to see will be Despicable Me 2
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm going to see if the lighthouse has it less loud than the cineworld means we enjoy the film over the migrane :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: take ear plugs :)
<mungbean> sit at the back
 * TheOpenSourcerer can't wait for Despicable Me 2 too.
<davmor2> mungbean: the problem with the cineworld is they have 10 screens in a building that should probably only have 6 and a sound system built for a building that size that has 3 screens.  It's about 50 decibels too loud.
<joshmyers> hey guys, I need to regexp a .log file for "HDFS IO error", this just \HDFS IO error\ ?
<mungbean> no sign of lightread getting a fix for the google reader july switch-off
<bigcalm> joshmyers: grep "HDFS IO error" file.log
<joshmyers> bigcalm: needs to be a regexp
<joshmyers> using monit to regexp a log file for matches
<joshmyers> i.e. HDFS IO error
<joshmyers> and needs to restart the service if this matches
<bigcalm> joshmyers: Looks okay then
<joshmyers> ok ta
<bigcalm> joshmyers: my mistake, it should be //
<bigcalm> joshmyers: \ is an escape char
<joshmyers> hokay, thx
<mungbean> not only gloomy but freezing out there
<mungbean> yesterday was pretty nice too
<bigcalm> Sat/Sun were nice. Yesterday started okay but ended up like today
<mungbean> the big flaggons of water for the water cooler have run out and nobody knows who to email about new ones :(
<mungbean> the level of apathy in this workplace
<mungbean> no wter since early last week
<davmor2> mungbean: look at the flaggons of water
<davmor2> or the machine tends to have contact details on it
<mungbean> we're in a big company..so there's a lady somewhere who administers it
<mungbean> most people who care/know have left
<mungbean> and the others are just slurping from the tap
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> back in the uk popey ?
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> my vps i had boybu + irssi + bitlbee on just became unresponsive, and had to force reboot, it, :(
<brobostigon> byobu*
<MooDoo> is this good enough for a gui on ubuntu server - sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends ubuntu-desktop
<MooDoo> ?
<popey> MooDoo: you'd get more than you'd probably want
<brobostigon> 400odd days uptime wiped away,
<popey> do you just want x and a simple desktop?
<popey> mine is only 52 days
<popey> ->  13    52 days, 00:17:05 | Linux 3.2.0-39-virtual    Sat Apr  6 14:59:17 2013
<MooDoo> yeah
<brobostigon> ok, not bad then.
<MooDoo> xubuntu-desktop ?
<popey> I'd probably use something like openbox or similar
<MooDoo> ok thanks
<brobostigon> lubuntu-desktop ?
<popey> even that will pull in way too much
<brobostigon> true, yes, loads of apps and other stuff.
<bigcalm> mgdm: done any signing API commands?
<bigcalm> mgdm: would I need anything more than this for creating a signature? md5(ClientID . Timestamp . fields... . ClientKey)
<mgdm> I think that'll work, though you'll want to ensure the fields are sorted properly
<davmor2> bigcalm: application name or is that covered by ClientID?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ie you might have browser and an android/ios app
<bigcalm> mgdm: it'll be sent as JSON and verified in the same order each time
<bigcalm> davmor2: It's a web to web only system. There's no scope for mobile devices or manual use of the API
<bigcalm> mgdm: I'm writing the API and the client to use it. So complete control at this point :)
<mungbean> my 10.04 desktop is on 418 days atm
<davmor2> bigcalm: okay then just throwing it out there incase you hadn't thought of it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
 * bigcalm pokes php.net for not working. Yay for mirrors
<bigcalm> hash('sha256', $wibble) might be better than md5
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I doubt there is much point to the overhead for sha256
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: what alternative then?
<dogmatic69> it would be virtually impossible to build a rainbow table as you are hashing the timestamp, and if someone was able to figure out the various params they could use sha256 anyhow
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: what exactly is it for?
<dogmatic69> Just a token to validate the fields transferred?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> And the timestamp is to limit replay attacks
<mgdm> overhead is relative - I doubt it's going to be getting enough traffic that the difference between MD5 and SHA256 run times is going to be a significant factor
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: add a salt and sha1 should be fine
<dogmatic69> the timestamp is sort of salt, but a 30 / 40 char salt is prob better
<bigcalm> I too didn't think that the overhead of sha256 was going to be an issue
<dogmatic69> this is what cake does to stop form tampering which I guess is similar to what you want
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/cakephp/cakephp/blob/master/lib/Cake/View/Helper/FormHelper.php#L561
<bigcalm> Yay csr
<bigcalm> I thought that they had hash() back to front until I realised that it was a static method
<dogmatic69> ye, that is a cake method
<dogmatic69> you can configure the default hash type so usually Security::hash(foobar) is good
<bigcalm> Makes sense
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: The I think sha > 1 is just going to add time to the request for no gain
<mgdm> but not a significant amount of time
<bigcalm> Though even sha1 is considered better than md5?
<mgdm> probably less than the TCP overhead to his DB server
<bigcalm> We're talking about maybe 500 calls a day. I would be surprised if it were more
<bigcalm> We can always include the API version as part of the payload or the URL. Allowing us to switch to a different method if required in the future
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: where is AlanBell hiding
<bigcalm> Oh how I love @Cumberholmes on twitter "I'm starting to suspect that John knows his new 'hatstand' is actually me in disguise, but is refusing to acknowledge me."
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: He's on his way to darkest Wales - will be out of contact mostly until until Thurs I should think.
<czajkowski> ah bugger was hoping he might like to have lunch wit myself and popey tomorrow in Farnham
<bigcalm> mgdm: you'd better have some good weather for the weekend by the time Hayley and I get to Ed.
<mungbean> do i have to claim my giffgaff reward points at the 6 month milestone?
<mgdm> bigcalm: heh. When is it you're here again?
<bigcalm> mgdm: Saturday to Tuesday. Though What we get done in that time is anybody's guess
<mgdm> bigcalm: Hmmmm, I'm busy at t'weekend so I probably can't make it across until *maybe* Monday
<mgdm> but if you're over here at all let me know
<bigcalm> mgdm: will do. Not sure what Hayley has in mind for the break
<bigcalm> I foresee a lot of rain in our future
 * mgdm rolls eyes
<bigcalm> Just looking out of the window right now...
<brobostigon> can i copy a whole folder form root, to a user folder, then make it accessable for that user, to edit and exceute stuff inside it ?
<bigcalm> cp -r foo bar; chown userName: bar
<bigcalm> Something like that?
<brobostigon> thatl work.
<bigcalm> Erm, chown -r username: bar
<bigcalm> Or something :)
<daftykins> chown user:user -R /path/to/*
<bigcalm> daftykins: 2nd user if it's the same as the 1st
<bigcalm> +redundant
<bigcalm> +is
<daftykins> but then it'd come up as user:root
<daftykins> no?
<bigcalm> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5710648/
<daftykins> oh i get you, you still colon just don't repeat
<daftykins> sorry, misunderstood
<bigcalm> :)
<daftykins> yay for SSH proxies
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<daftykins> reconfigured at a clients today so now i can SSH in via his file server and use a local browser to reconfigure any web admin'd devices at his \o/
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<daftykins> in this case the fifth of eight WD 2TB HDDs in his RAID 6 died Friday =/
<MartijnVdS> oops
<daftykins> gogo advanced RMA with WD
<daftykins> yeah the WD2002FYPS' models are dropping like flies >_<
<MartijnVdS> Is haswell out yet?
<daftykins> not that i know of
<daftykins> lets check
<MartijnVdS> June 3rd, according to most internets
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> i saw motherboard previews on anandtech.com
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, saw those too
<daftykins> which is going a bit too far with excitement XD
<MartijnVdS> I've already chosen one I wan
<MartijnVdS> t
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm an Asus fan myself
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, me too
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> used to love Abit :(
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, 1155-socket coolers will work on the 1150 socket because the holes for the cooler mount are in the same place
<daftykins> makes sense
<MartijnVdS> so I bought a CoolerMaster Seidon 120M
<daftykins> just a Land-reconfiguration shouldn't change all that much
<MartijnVdS> in anticipation
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that's risky, i'd wait for specific board support
<daftykins> since they love putting all kinds of junk around the slots these days
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I can always use it on my old i3
<daftykins> s/slots/sockets/
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i just ordered my friends new ivy bridge setup
<daftykins> he didn't care about waiting for Haswell
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: but the Seidon.. factory pre-filled maintenance free water cooling
<daftykins> i7 3770K/16GB 2133MHz DDR3/nvidia GTX 680/samsung 256GB 840 pro SSD/2TB storage HDD
<MartijnVdS> I considered buying ib now, but the socket change
<daftykins> maintenance free? seems a bold claim
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: they guarantee it for a few years at least
<daftykins> yeah it is a bit of a dealbreaker for longevity
<MartijnVdS> "Two year zero maintenance guarantee"
<MartijnVdS> n ot a lot, but enough for me
<daftykins> i always wanted to give water a go, mainly due to boredom
<daftykins> but the trouble is, you're kinda only moving the fans in some ways
<MartijnVdS> http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/cooling/cpu-liquid-cooler/seidon-120m.html
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I also got a "Silencio" case from CoolerMaster, which has kind-of okay-but-not-great airflow
<MartijnVdS> so moving the fan closer to the exhaust port is good
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i'm putting my friends setup into an Antec P183
<daftykins> http://store.antec.com/Product/enclosure-performance_one_series/p-183/0-761345-81830-8.aspx
<directhex> BADGERBADGER
<MartijnVdS> http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/case/mid-tower/silencio-550.html
<daftykins> directhex: o hai
<directhex> BADGERBADGER
<daftykins> MUSHROOMMUSHROOM
<directhex> BADGERBADGER
<MartijnVdS> SNAAAKE
<daftykins> ooooooooooooooh it's a snake
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that case looks nice, heavy-duty :) :)
<directhex> i can't believe i spent ~Â£200 on keyboard/mouse for wife's birthday :|
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: yeah heavy, but nicely thick skinned to reduce noise \o/
<daftykins> aaand his graphics card will be 25cm long
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Same with the Silencio, it comes with thick padding on the inside
<daftykins> so it fits :O
<daftykins> neat :)
<MartijnVdS> I'm not going to bother with a separate GPU
<daftykins> indeed gone are the days of putting in windows
<daftykins> rather not be able to hear it :D
<MartijnVdS> but the blinky fans!
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I never understood windows.  That's where I breed dust bunnies.  watching seems rather indecent
<daftykins> i can only say that sometimes it's handy for diagnosing something
<daftykins> but the rarity of that makes it pointless :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: they have motherboards with numeric diagnostic LEDs now
<MartijnVdS> and "Boot to BIOS" pins
<MartijnVdS> and lots of other weird features you'll use once
<shauno> reminds me of hours trying to track down "dma timeout" kernel errors, and eventually discovered my sb16 had fallen out
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> good times
<daftykins> http://www.gainward.com/main/product/vga/pro/p00868/p00868_pic_6874f8e7b692b8ba.jpg
<MartijnVdS> I remember one summer my XT started acting up
<daftykins> getting that chunky GTX 680 4GB card for my mates' setup
<shauno> and my amazement when pushing it back in resulted in music, rather than a panic
<MartijnVdS> Weird hangs, weird savegame corruptions (yay lots of $$, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> the DMA controller had hone
<MartijnVdS> gone
<daftykins> shauno: pushing it in whilst on? :)
<shauno> well of course
<daftykins> ah yes i was going to hook up a second input cable so i can use my screen(s) to setup this friends new PC
<daftykins> although i suppose i could use my spare 19" samsung LCD instead
<daftykins> but then stuff will look fancy on my screens too
<daftykins> do i have another DVI, hmmz
<daftykins> or i could try displayport for the first time ever! zomg
<daftykins> if my cable wasn't still at my parents in my big spares box Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> DVI it is
<dllewellyn> afaict display port is just dvi with a different connector - like hdmi is dvi + audio
<popey> kinda
<popey> DP is HDMI without paying the license fee
<dllewellyn> ergh @ wrong nick
<daftykins> i just wanted to try it out for the first time ;)
<daftykins> my twin 24" Dell LCDs have had it since i got them but no cards existed for years
<daftykins> kristenbb: hey, how's it going?
<kristenbb> hi
<kristenbb> I'm fine, but my problem is still not solved
<diddledan> it's annoying - both dp and dvi can carry analogue signals. so being enterprising I think with my dp system that I can plug in a dp-to-dvi and then a dvi-to-vga daisy-chained. it seems nobody makes a displayport to dvi also carrying the analogue signel
<diddledan> eww @ speeling
<diddledan> signel???
<diddledan> signal**!
<daftykins> well, HDMI and DVI use the same spec, displayport to DVI requires active conversion afaik
<diddledan> I really should get my mac onto ebay
<diddledan> means wiping it though, and finding the box out, and getting it shipped.. bah
<daftykins> which one is it you're selling?
<diddledan> one of the ancient black macbooks
<diddledan> c2d t7700?
<diddledan> erm 6 GB RAMs
<diddledan> and 250GB HDD
<diddledan> it's unfortunately too old to cope with mountain lion, so I'm expecting the return on investment to be slightly lower than had I sold it a year ago
<daftykins> aww
<diddledan> it's exactly one generation (a few months) too old
<daftykins> what're you hoping to get for it?
<diddledan> couple ton
<diddledan> at most I guess
<diddledan> it's been a while since I looked at second hand prices
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> if you transfer via SFTP, is that ok for doing binary data transfer?
<daftykins> i know FTP clients tend to give you ASCII/binary options
<daftykins> but i don't know if WinSCP from a windows box -> a Linux host would be bad
<diddledan> good question
<daftykins> diddledan: that one can still take Lion then? just not ML
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> i'm so tempted
<daftykins> :D
<popey> i use winscp between windows and linux a fair amount, works great
<popey> "just works"
<daftykins> popey: yeah, it's just that i'm helping someone setup a COD4 dedicated server and the readme says that fot FTP clients (which i know is different to SFTP) you must use binary mode
<shauno> scp/sftp don't have an ascii mode.  that 7bit rot is way legacy
<popey> gotcha
<daftykins> ah good good :) it'll work happily then
<popey> yeah, should do
<daftykins> thanks guys
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIdFLEKnuhY
<daftykins> that's where i was yesterday if you're interested
<daftykins> the island of Sark, near mine - day tripping with hire bikes
<daftykins> that's the crazy cliff fall on the strip of land that connects Big Sark to Little Sark :>
<shauno> I was in bratislava yesterday :)  but no bikes
<shauno> but we did have deep-fried sheep cheese.  I think I'd have preferred bikes
<daftykins> diddledan: what screen size one is it? sorry for all the questions :D if you could find its' comma model # e.g. "6,2" i'd be curious to look it up :>
<shauno> I think the blackbook were only 13"
<daftykins> ah cool :>
<shauno> but they were usually the equivalent of the top-end white macbook for each given generation.  they didn't do black on the lower tiers
<daftykins> yeah
<popey> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.4-black-13-early-2008-penryn-specs.html
<popey> one of them?
<daftykins> seems so!
<diddledan> daftykins: it's 13inch, and model MacBook4,1
<daftykins> ebay seems to have them for a bit more than you expected
<daftykins> i'm seeing ones still with 2GB RAM for Â£350+
<diddledan> yes, popey that's the one
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> mine's got 6GB :-p
<daftykins> indeedy
<shauno> you'll mostly find 2 & 4GB, apple claimed they'd only take 4.  the reality was they couldn't take 8, and apple would only spec them with matched pairs
<daftykins> however if you feel like forgetting the above and selling to me for Â£150 *whistle* ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> is the battery gone with age though?
<diddledan> ebay has lots of bits of them but the first page doesn't actually have many complete units
<daftykins> i searched for "macbook black 2008"
<diddledan> the battery I replaced a while ago with a third-party - same with the psu
<diddledan> new apple branded batteries are about 100Â£ in themselves
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-MacBook-A1181-BLACK-13-3-2-4GHz-320GB-2GB-OSX-Lion-A391-/261221842786?pt=UK_Computing_Apple_Laptops_ET&hash=item3cd208ff62
<daftykins> there's an example
<diddledan> so I didn't have that kind of money available when I replaced it
<daftykins> that would be an ace little system if you ditched the HDD for an SSD
<shauno> wow.  I should try to put my 2007 back together ;)
<diddledan> shauno: knowing you it's beyond "putting back together"
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> tis but a flesh wound :/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> alright food time
<daftykins> left it a bit late again :S computers and IRC are bad, mmkay
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I do that at work
<diddledan> often I'm eating lunch after 3
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> same with me
<diddledan> so how long till I can use ubuntu-touch on my galaxynexus for reals? :-p
<diddledan> by "use" I mean it must have a terminal emulator and ssh
<diddledan> ok, this is odd - two links [1] shows a hand holding the box of a samsung galaxy s4, and [2] shows that the sgs4 is the size of the box in horizonal and vertical planes. How fscking huge is that thing?! [1] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S4-4G-Brand-New-In-Box-Sealed-/221232402062 [2] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S-4-GTI9505-16-GB-Black-Mist-Unlocked-Brand-NewWith-Invoice-/171047219048
<diddledan> those dimensions would put the sgs4 at bigger than the galaxy note?!
<diddledan> I think the hand in [1] was photoshopped
<shauno> diddledan: does this help?  http://cl.ly/image/0T2I1O461s12
<diddledan> interesting
<diddledan> don't you love that you can get laptops with 500GB of RAM? </troll> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acer-V3-571G-15-6-Core-i3-2-4GHz-6GB-RAM-500GB-HDD-Windows-8-Laptop-/360646687445?_trksid=p2055223.m2215
<shauno> hawt
<shauno> I wonder though, isn't ssd techincally RAM ?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> not really, no
<diddledan> SSD is permanent storage. RAM is transient
<shauno> nah, nvram is permenant, dram is transient
<diddledan> permanent in terms of "until the disc says no"
<diddledan> even nvram is transient - it disappears as soon as power is removed
<shauno> you're positive about that one ?
<diddledan> you're probably thinking something along the lines of eeprom
<shauno> no I'm thinking like flash, which is nvram
<mgdm> Flash was developed from EEPROM
<mgdm> (but is still NVRAM, so you're both right)
<shauno> I just think it's curious that the RAM moniker does fit SSD.  it is memory, and it is random-access, in that you can pick an address and pull it, rather than having to seek to it
<shauno> it's obviously not what we mean when we say ram, but I don't think it's going to be long before we're teaching kids what these terms mean, by explaining what they used to mean
<daftykins> it's NVRAM for a reason - 'non volatile'
<shauno> yeah.  I think he's thinking of sram vs dram, where you can hold sram with a battery, but dram needs the controller to keep pinging it
<shauno> anyway, pointless, because I highly doubt that laptop has a 500GB ssd at <Â£400.  just struck me the terms don't work so well anymore
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> terms?
<daftykins> i had a Uni prof. that refused to call it 'RAM' he'd call it random access store
<daftykins> i liked that approach
<shauno> four crates of junk and not a single ps/2-usb adaptor.  not sure if I need a new keyboard, or moar boxes of junk
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> PS/2 is so much better than USB =/
<daftykins> i think because it's lower level
<shauno> until you come across a machine that doesn't have ps/2 ports.  which is where I'm stuck right now
<daftykins> :(
<popey> huzzah! new toy has shipped
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW/
<daftykins> :O interesting
<dwatkins_> I have one of these, it's great: http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Trent-IMP120D-Thunderbolt-Blackberry/dp/B004CHMP50/
<diddledan> holy crap they're cheap right now
<dwatkins_> charges whilst it's in use, too - I'm going to see if I can run my Raspberry Pi off it.
<daftykins> would i install libstdc++6 to get libstdc++.so.6 ?
<daftykins> oh it's already on
<popey> wonder how long the Pi would run for..
<shauno> if my math works, 18.5 hours if you've got no load on the usb
<daftykins> can anyone help me install libstdc++6 for a 32-bit arch?
<daftykins> at least i think that's what's going wrong with a program i'm trying to run
<shauno> I haven't actually looked at multiarch yet, but I'd assume you're using a pre-built binary that's hardwired to /usr/lib instead of looking in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/ ?
<daftykins> ": error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
<daftykins> i guess so, 64-bit arch server with the above error
<shauno> 'ldd filename' should show you with a path
<daftykins> where filename is?
<daftykins> the .so.6 ?
<shauno> the binary you're trying to run
<shauno> it'll show what it's linked against
<daftykins> libstdc++.so.6 => not found and libgcc_s.so.1 => not found
<daftykins> that was handy :)
<shauno> bah
<daftykins> i copied those out, the rest it found
<daftykins> mostly in /lib32/
<popey> people run arch on servers?
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> i'm helping this guy try to run a dedicated game server
<popey> oh, i thought you meant "arch linux" but you meant "64-bit architecture"
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
 * diddledan won't mention the 40 smth gentoo systems at work
<daftykins> if it helps, a centOS guide refers to:
<daftykins> yum -y install  glibc.i686 libgcc.i686 libstdc++.i686 zlib.i686 screen.x86_64
<diddledan> in debland it's glibc:i386
<diddledan> or similar
<diddledan> ergh, I should be going to bed
<shauno> hm, more humble goodness for my steam
<diddledan> was that the humble sale or the humble bungle?
<shauno> bundle .. not sure if it's news or not, I've been away
<popey> it only launched today
<diddledan> so.. kvm.. is it possible to run hyper-v inside kvm?
<diddledan> vmware supportes nested hypervisors, but I donno how they go about that - it might be a fudge by only allowing vmware inside vmware
<daftykins> i solved it, i was being incredibly thick
<diddledan> no comment :-p
<daftykins> the program i had downloaded, a Call of Duty 4 dedicated server file set, had the libs i wanted in the folder
<daftykins> so i symlink'd them to /usr/lib/
<diddledan> oops
<daftykins> then they were visible and now the program works
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> the vmware one isn't a fudge; they'll virtualize the vt-x instructions, so it's available to the guest.  I know vbox doesn't do this (and claims it's not possible).  for kvm, I don't know
<bigcalm> notch paid $5,000 for HIB8. Do you think he just puts it on company expenses?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> prolly
<diddledan> my idea was to run kvm windows 8 which in-turn ran the vms downloadable from modern.ie (yes, there are linux downloads listed, but only for vbox which I refuse to use becasue 1) it's oracle and 2) it's oracle - I'm already annoyed ubuntu hasn't switched to mariadb yet :-p)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> I can't check at the moment because my openstack install is messy beyond belief :/  but google is looking optimistic
<shauno> still debating whether to wipe that one and start again, or look at other approaches, but that's for another day
<diddledan> ok, lets try it out. reboobing (and hopefully coming back online again)
<shauno> tonight's task is to find out why this procmail rule isn't matching, because I've been getting fresh teens every 10 minutes all weekend :/
<daftykins> shauno: fresh teens 0o
<sebsebseb> hi
<shauno> argh, it's still not working.  it'd help if spamd didn't split headers across multiple lines
<popey> hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: see my pm :)
<ocean22> hi guys. i use ubuntu 13.04 64 bit. my internet was working flowless since the install. Just now my mozilla and google chrome both stopped connecting to internet and giving me the following error message."Your router does not have an active Internet connection.
<ocean22> If your router has previously been working then click here to retry. If this does not work then please contact your Internet Service Provider.
<ocean22> If you have just installed your router then you may need to set it up. Click here to access the router's web configuration pages. You will need to enter you admin password then start the Wizard setup when prompted". no clue how to fix this. windows is working fine. can some one help
<ocean22> pease
<diddledan> well that worked - couldn't even get linux to boot
<diddledan> downloading 13.04 iso and trying again
<diddledan> shauno: fresh teens, eh?
<diddledan> shauno: got any spare? ;-)
<shauno> if I get this rule working, I'll turn it into a forward.  be careful what you wish for!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> this mobo sucks nuts
<diddledan> it's got a weird thing gigabyte call "hybridefi"
<daftykins> ah yep
<diddledan> it's evil
<daftykins> i read about that sucker, in fact was it you with the system that wouldn't boot a flash drive?
<diddledan> quite possible
<daftykins> sorta, 2 nights ago maybe
<diddledan> I'm having just that issue right now
<daftykins> i might've been going on about updating BIOS
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> but the person i helped was already on F11
<daftykins> AMD board?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> rings a bell ^_^
<diddledan> booting off cd successfully gets grub up but thereafter it goes black and the cd stops whirring
<daftykins> tried with nomodeset?
<diddledan> ooh, nope
<diddledan> I'll try that next
<diddledan> just waiting on the 13.04 to downlaod
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> I think I'm gonna have to leave it for tomorrow.. it's midnight. I should be sleeping
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> there's that
<daftykins> diddledan: when might you be on to try it again?
<daftykins> i'd be curious how you get on
<diddledan> I'm usually about most evenings.
<daftykins> cool, might be about too then
<daftykins> gn sir o/
<diddledan> I sometimes sneak in during office hours when my boss isn't watching :-p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i love all the typos of live for lice
<daftykins> "i'm trying this licecd"
<diddledan> "you know you're alice when you can't stop itching" :-p
<daftykins> hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-29
<redtape|renegade> OT | Made me tickle :::   must be from blighty (?) :::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlH5SDGoyA
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you today
<brobostigon> knightwise: not bad, busy day, jobcentre etc. and you?
<knightwise> pretty ok, also a busy day , meetings and shit
<brobostigon> :) :(
<knightwise> its ok .got an ssh tunnel to my machine at home to keep me busy when its boring
<knightwise> currently writing some simple backup scripts.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> rsyncing my itunes library and making a monthly zip file and stuff
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<knightwise> btw : whats the best compresiion , zip or tar ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: technically tar isn't compressed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> tar is gzip'd or bz2zipped subsequently to being tar'd
<TheOpenSourcerer> bz2 give higher compressions ratios that zip IIRC
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all BTW
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sun in Farnham again today :-)
<brobostigon> rain here, :(
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer and diplo
<diplo> Lets get some chatting going here so I don't have to see the messsages from earlier :)
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: so I would be better of b2z 'ing the entire directory
<diplo> Takes a fair bit longer, also dependant on what compression you set- default is 5? maybe i think and can go up to 9
<diplo> But yes bzip gives better compression but using more cpu etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> you can tar with a -j to bzip2 the tar as you go, e.g. # tar jcf mytarball.tgz mydir/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I generally just use gzip tar zcf
<diplo> Moi aussi :)
<dwatkins_> tar -cvzf
<knightwise> what does the f do ?
<diplo> Filename for the archive you're creating I believe
<dwatkins> yeah
<dwatkins> it also serves to remind me where the filename goes (immediately after the options)
<knightwise> ah ok
<dwatkins> as opposed to the spec of files to include in the archive
<knightwise> trying it out now on my entire itunes library
<dwatkins> I suspect the minus sign and possibly the 'f' are unnecessary, but I've been using tar so long, I forget where I started with those options, probably an RS6000 in 1994 ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "f" must be the last switch before the filename. tar fcz mtfile.tgz mydir/ won't work.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The - is not required, but is a throwback to long, long ago...
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can use it or not as you wish
<dwatkins> I always find it strange that commands are so inconsistent with each other, some needing the minus, some not, etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> man tar has lots of useful information
<dwatkins> At least tar is adaptable, I suppose.
<dwatkins> (as is ps)
<TheOpenSourcerer> tar is one of the few left that do not require it from what I have noticed.
<dwatkins> ah ok, my information is probably old then.
 * TheOpenSourcerer waits to be informed...
<dwatkins> I've waited a long time for that...
<dwatkins> ...then I started reading the manual.
<knightwise> I loved the XKCD about tar :)
<dwatkins> heh yeah
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy UN Peacekeepers Day!
<BigRedS_> Goooood Morning!
 * diplo is playing with ldap this morning :)
<diddledan> ldap's fun
<diplo> Umm fun isn't a word I'd use so far :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diplo> pita, could make it a lot clearer, but it's starting to go in the noggin now
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Wording in it could be clearer, writing my own notes for it as well
<diddledan> I don't get with ldap how it manages to be entirely schemaless. with schemas
<diddledan> and that the schemas are stored in the db according to a schema stored in the db that wasn't there when you started
<diddledan> braingoo
<SuperMatt> the day I have to configure my own ldap is that day I quit life
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> wifey is out for 1hr max today. chances of citylink attempting to deliver in that 1hr window? high
<diddledan> VERY high
<mungbean> :'(
<mungbean> though i hear the depot is v nearby
<Laney> put a note on the door
<Laney> usually works
<mungbean> "leave with neighbour?"
<Nafallo> "wifey gone shopping. please please please wait for her!"
<Laney> leave in <x place>, yeah
<BigRedS_> that's one thing I do like about Amazon's otherwise alarmingly insecure deliveries
<popey> i got a DPD mail today giving me the exact 1 hour window it will be delivered in
<popey> 16:16-17:16
<mungbean> nice
<mungbean> i know its out for delivery :-\
<Laney> I decided to buy something right before I fell asleep last night
<Laney> and now I can't remember what it was
<popey> \o/
<mungbean> bacon
<popey> was it sheep?
<Laney> oh yeah, homebrew stuff
<mungbean> got put off the diea after my student days and a foul tasting conconction
<diddledan> *like*
<diddledan> foul tasting concoctions are great when you're a student
<diddledan> I like student towns when you go out on the piss they come round near the end of trading with lashings of shots - usually either green or red and often in testtubes
<diddledan> I have no idea what's in them, but they're awesome :-p
<popey> â»
<Laney> I've made some quite drinkable stuff from kits
<diddledan> lies!
<Laney> want to step it up to choosing my own ingredients
<Laney> I am jealous of kirkland's setup
<diddledan> they're building a distilliary near where I grew up in freefolk/laverstoke - nr basingstoke
<Laney> http://www.ubrewtu.com/
<diddledan> http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/9554536.Gin_project_is_a_tonic/
<Nafallo> Laney: No match for "UBREWTO.COM".
<JamesTait> Nafallo, or ubrew.to
<mungbean> best package for drawing diagrams in ubuntu?
<mungbean> (or web based)
<popey> http://www.asciidraw.com/
<mungbean> that's my usual goto for wiki pages.
<mungbean> this is more visio related
<mungbean> i guess draw, dia or caligra
<Nafallo> mungbean: dia
<mungbean> doh, i chose calligra
<Nafallo> gah
<Myrtti> gah?
<Nafallo> join/parts
<diddledan> gah!
<Nafallo> annoying
<popey> \o/
<Nafallo> cheers Myrtti :-)
<Myrtti> be'er?
<mungbean> still plagued by the debconf on <hostname> window flashing up multiple times during software install
<diddledan> that's a strange banmask
<diddledan> how does it know who's got broken connections to match the @*$##fix_your_connection?!
<bigcalm> I've been listening to a string of The Infinite Monkey Cage podcasts. All caught up so thought I'd move onto the last uupc. My brain wasn't able to process Tony's voice in my headphones, I think it was expecting Brian Cox
<bigcalm> diddledan: it's a message
<diddledan> aah
<Myrtti> er, no.
<diddledan> so the mask is just *
<Myrtti> it banforwards to a channel called ##fix_your_connection
<bigcalm> Nice
<Myrtti> and it knows it by the nickname, see the part before the !
<Myrtti> andatche!*@*$##fix_your_connection
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<czajkowski> ello davmor2
<SuperMatt> hulk smash!
<bigcalm> Wish I could be in 2 places at once
<bigcalm> Missing the LUG tonight because Hayley and I are out celebrating her birthday from yesterday
<bigcalm> It's a shame that she doesn't see going to the LUG as a good form of celebration
<popey> Clare went to out LUG meeting _once_
<DJones> Tell her its a fountain pen converntion, then when you get there say they must have swapped the date with with LUG meeting
<bigcalm> Hayley has been to the LUG xmas meal and is likely to attend the Pie Factory in 2 weeks. But no interest other than that
<diddledan> that's sad :-(
<diddledan> :'(
<popey> understandable, lug meets are often boring to outsiders
<popey> my kids go to them only because I drag them along and they can sit and play games while i do a talk
<bigcalm> Yes and no. She says that it's my social thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: you only want to go now that you saw my name go down on the life is too hectic to attend list ;)
<popey> e.g. https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/posts/c12F6vLasK8
<bigcalm> davmor2: just seen the post the ml. How can work be too busy for you when czajkowski does everything? :P
<bigcalm> Minecraft \o/
<mungbean> would a husband go to a jewellery party?
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> popey: I'm guessing that your LUG doesn't meet in a pub?
<bigcalm> (doesn't look very pubby)
<diddledan> the linux community gets a reputation as being male because it's mainly male and therefore only male people join
<popey> the one she went to was in a pub
<popey> she was ~6 months pregnant with sophie, too
<mungbean> was the beard count hgh?
<popey> thats actually one of the first times I met Tony & Laura
<czajkowski> I think it varies on the lug tbh and the people there on the day. I met my other half at the LUG meet up. But it's not one I go back to often either.
<mungbean> i don't LUG because there are lots of linux users at work
<mungbean> i would meet up at a scale model UG though
<mungbean> since my friends haven't realised that this is the best hobby to do ....yet
<bigcalm> Working from home means that I look forward to just seeing other people once a fortnight at the LUG :)
<mungbean> nice
<mungbean> drawing a diagram in calligra flow. its very visio ish but i can't change the colour of the lines :(
<mungbean> and buggy
<mungbean> got potential though
<BigRedS> Just use paper, felt tips and a camera phone
<mungbean> for sending to oracle?
<BigRedS> Maybe crack out the crayons for them
<czajkowski> Laney: popey one for ye http://imgur.com/r/funny/dRlvEOU
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's screwing with my mind!
<JamesTait> czajkowski, that's the afternoon gone....
<czajkowski> JamesTait: I know I have to avoid that site at all cost
<czajkowski> s
<JamesTait> :)
<diddledan> that's ay maze zing!
<diddledan> trippy, too
<mungbean> whats this motorbike game thats in software center?
<mungbean> anyone tried it?
 * BigRedS installs it
<popey> which game>?
<popey> oh, its actually called motorbike â»
<popey> "payment authorized"
<popey> uhm
<BigRedS> yeah, I couldn't find a way to install the apparently-free bit of it
<BigRedS> Hm, the software centre's pretty good
<mungbean> costs Â£0.00
<mungbean> you get 10 free levels
<popey> heh, that is quite fun
<BigRedS> yeah, I can see where it says that, but not where to click to make it install
<Laney> without having looked at it, i just got reminded of elastomania
<Laney> now that was a fun game
<BigRedS> Though I've got distracted playing with the software centre
<DJones> There are some apps that you have to go through the payment processing system and purchase at the Â£0.00 price, doesn't ask for a credit card or anything
<popey> i just typed "motorbike" in USC then clicked "more info" then "buy"
<BigRedS> Ahh, that might do it
<BigRedS> yeah, the 'Buy' wants me to log in with an account I don't have, so I figured it was the payment bit. I expected a 'Download free bit' button somewhere
<BigRedS> I'll try DJones' theory
<BigRedS> Oh, it's just a launchpad account it wants
<DJones> BigRedS: Isn't the login using a launchpad account?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> something else in the software centre wanted a software centre account, I must've conflated the two
<popey> it's an Ubuntu SSO account really
<popey> not a launchpad account
<BigRedS> Heh, the software centre is not responding...
<popey> but if you've been around a while then it's technically your launchpad account which was migrated to an Ubuntu SSO account â»
<czajkowski> and there is a difference
<czajkowski> if you have a SSO issue the folks in #canonical-isd can help you though
<czajkowski> we get lots of confusion as  from an end user point of you can't tell the diference.
<dogmatic69> anyone know how I could use terminal to extract the number in "refs/heads/feature/8494-saq-survey"? ...feature/[0-9]+-... would be a good pattern
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: extracting the number from a string is easy, yeah
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: you going to keep me in suspense? :/
<dwatkins> make sure you escape the relevant slashes, but it should be fairly easy, depends on what exactly you're looking for
<dwatkins> how are the digits shown in general, for example, and can other digits be present?
<shauno> would a blunt sed 's/[^0-9]//g'  work?
<dwatkins> shauno: that's why I'm asking, does dogmatic69 mean "remove" or "display only" the numbers
<dwatkins> and if there are other numbers present, what should happen with them, nice way to negate the search, though :)
<shauno> yeah, I'm skipping a few assumptions :)  'blunt' is my usual methodology.  start with something violently simple, and tune it for why it doesn't work
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: get just the numbers in a var
<dwatkins> shauno / dogmatic69 - indeed, that may well work, but what if other parts have numbers?
<dogmatic69> shauno: that sed does the trick
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: doubt it
<dwatkins> fair enough, just saying as I've been caught out by sed in this manner before
<dogmatic69> its a git branch feature/<ticket_id>-description
<dwatkins> it gets as much as it can
<dwatkins> and if someone calls a feature "mything123"? ;)
<BigRedS> Personally, I'd write a script for it
<BigRedS> in something more capable than bash
<dwatkins> perl is probably best for this, yeahy
<dwatkins> *yeah
<BigRedS> yeah, "something more capable than bash" is my current euphemism for "Perl"
 * dwatkins grins
<shauno> ooh, I didn't know that .. you can use | as a delimiter in sed instead of /
<dwatkins> or a hash
<dwatkins> I think you can use all sorts of punctuation as delimiters
<dogmatic69> if its anything like php you can use whatever you like as a delimiter
 * bigcalm does everything in PHP and cares not for sanity
<dwatkins> BigRedS: you don't care about your sanity?
<bigcalm> Bwuahaha
<BigRedS> *I* do. But I don't use PHP
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> Tab strikes again
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> oops, sorry
 * diplo has moved from perl to python recently for my scripts
<BigRedS> actually, I do use PHP occasionally. But it does drive me bonkers
<shauno> how did I live this long without knowing that :/  makes replacing paths a whole lot tidier, because then you don't need \/path\/to\/foo
<dwatkins> I clearly havn't used PHP enough to see how insane it is.
<dwatkins> shauno: I know the feeling
<diplo> much prefering it, only downside I have is that certain features I code for in 6 don't work in centos4/5 :(
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I use hashes by default now. Though (in perl) you do need the m beforehand  -  if ($var m#/some/path/#)  rather than  if ($var #/some/path/#)
<BigRedS> dwatkins: my main issue is with all the preg_* functions not being as easy as doing the same thing in Perl
<dwatkins> I suspect I should be glad I don't know about this, BigRedS ;)
<shauno> my solution to this is simply to not understand how things are supposed to work in perl.  that way I'm not injured when they don't
<BigRedS> shauno: yeah, that's why I intend never to go to Ireland and have a Guinness
<BigRedS> I'm quite enjoying my ignorance of how much better it is over there
<shauno> oh now here's a dirty secret.  I can't tell the difference
<BigRedS> haha, I suspect I'd not be able to. But it's not a risk I'm willing to take
<shauno> most of it seems to be in guinness having QA chaps in wee vans doing inspections here, so you suffer the wrath of Guinness if your lines aren't clean enough
<shauno> ie, good housekeeping, rather than any magical quality inherent to the liquid itself
<BigRedS> That sounds like a cushy job
<BigRedS> Ah, actually, I guess they don't just spend the day driving from quaint pub to quaint pub tasting a pint at each one
<shauno> seriously, these guys are a very common sight here .. http://farm1.staticflickr.com/25/193675508_7511627bb6_z.jpg?zz=1
<diddledan> omg, the channel started moving while I wasn't watching
<diddledan> how dare you exist outside of my consciousness!
<shauno> seems to me they're more likely contributors than the traditional myth/legend
<BigRedS> yeah. I do like the notion that it "doesn't travel well" yet seems to make it to anywhere in Ireland fine, but not just across the water to Liverpool
<shauno> and last bit before I drop the topic and go back to housework .. if you ever want to fluster an irishman, remind them that guinness (Diego) are a british company ;)
<mungbean> diageo
<shauno> that's the one
<mungbean> boddingtons tasted lovely in manchester. beer snobs in the south don't believe me
<mungbean> they will only drink something if its called wagglebadgerfoot
<diddledan> I love that one
<diddledan> it's very tasty
<mungbean> you grow a beard while you drink it
<diddledan> I've already got a beard
<mungbean> did you drink some?
<diddledan> yeah, I really like wagglebadgerfoot, it's awesome
<shauno> reminds me of something I came across in slovakia.  beer snobs who have only ever drank pilsners.  shocking
<diddledan> wtf?
<diddledan> how can you be snobbish over pilsners
<diddledan> ?
<BigRedS> I've a friend who is
<BigRedS> well, he's snobbish about *all* beers
<mungbean> german?
<BigRedS> including pilsners
<BigRedS> nah
<mungbean> people get snoobish about everything: coffee, beer, wine, distros
<mungbean> irc clients..
<popey> irssi!
<popey>  /ban *
<diddledan> >.<
<mungbean> bikes
<diddledan> I'm using smuxi atm
<mungbean> oh you can't possibly ride THAT bike
<BigRedS> I'm an awful bicycle snob :(
<diddledan> bike == dyke?
<BigRedS> And, er, completely the opposite with motorbikes. I appear to have no standards there
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> I guess if you're used to bicycles, all motorcycles are default jealousy ;)
<mungbean> i like all bikes except for bromptons
<BigRedS> Even Dahons? And the cheapo imitations?
<mungbean> anything that looks like an adult stole a childs bike
 * popey hugs his brompton
<mungbean> says the guy who is waiting for his kick scooter to arrive
<popey> which he no longer has
<BigRedS> Ah, that's BMXes you're think of
<mungbean> nah bmxes don't pretend to be anything else
<BigRedS> They're kids bikes
<BigRedS> adult bikes look the same but aren't built for a child
<mungbean> there's a bromptonites bunch at work
<BigRedS> at least bromptons have diddy wheels for a sane reason
<mungbean> and proprietary everything
<BigRedS> the left pedal is pretty standard
<diplo> OK, to butt in with a linux based question :)
<mungbean> bromptonites at work hang around together to validate their poor choice of bike
<popey> yeah, had to have my bedal replaced
<diplo> We have maybe 80+ customers
<popey> wow
<mungbean> you selling bikes diplo ?
<popey> thats harsh mungbean
<diplo> And we connect to them very insecurely at the moment
<diddledan> bah.. loonikes sucks</troll>
<mungbean> i'm being tongue in cheek, you just can't see me doing it
<popey> riight
<diplo> What I'd like to know is, how do others connect to multiple linux boxes with multiple users and manage keys
<Laney> i'd use a brompton if i had to commute
<popey> diplo: a gateway box
<diplo> We have maybe 17 devs that can connect to multiple sites, some use there own machines so could have ssh keys on there
<Laney> by public transport
<BigRedS> if each customer has several machines, have a bastion host at each site, ssh to that and then on
<mungbean> i jape about it to their face, just a bit of banter really
<BigRedS> use puppet/chev/scp+cron to distribute the keys
<diplo> Mainly a single machine
<diplo> I have debated that BigRedS, I'm not the sysadmin, but the guys that are aren't that great :)
<diplo> We're a very small company and trying to get them to use best practise etc is proving slow/difficult
<diplo> One of my thoughts was to have a single user on a machine that has ssh keys for the customers
<diplo> each of devs ssh's to that user and we could then just revoke the key from that authorized_keys
<BigRedS> it depends how much you want to split these things up. We all log on as root with passwords to the huge majority of our machines. Internally it's logged who requested the password and when, and we're expected to log what we do. This is only permitted from one host, though, which everyone key-auths onto
<BigRedS> it's not so great for auditing, but nor is `sudo su`, and it's a good deal less fragile than it might eb
<diplo> yeah pretty much what I was thinking BigRedS, hadn't debated the logging though but also an idea
<diddledan> can you store authorized keys in ldap?
<diplo> heh, even if you can I gave up on ldap for today.. :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm going to have to google that now
<BigRedS> yeah, knowing that your log-in has been documented is a pretty good incentive to go on to document what you did. Else the next problem is immediately blamed on you when it's checked who was last to fiddle :)
<shauno> diddledan: I think that's enough wagglebadgerfoot for you :p
<diddledan> >.<
<shauno> you can use a different key for each customer though, which gets surprisingly sane once you start using IdentityFile ~/.keys/customer.pem in ~/.shh/config
<diplo> One of my biggest issues is this company doesn't document *anything* !!!!
<diplo> yeah I do that on my own machine, until I joined everyone was still using telnet :/
<BigRedS> haha
<diplo> These guys have been doing the same thing for 20 years and it's a pain to get anything to change
<diplo> most are old and against it
<BigRedS> well, using SSH and passwords isn't *bad*
<diplo> We implemented svn just before I joined, apparently there was uproar.. so one of the guys wrapped the commands in bash so it looked like the old way they did things
<BigRedS> it's still way better than telnet, for example. And with fail2ban or denyhosts you can make a brute-force attack pointless
<diplo> We don't use ssh very much though :/ mainly on new sites where I've been involved.
<diplo> I was going to break into a customers site from home to show them how easy it would be..
<shauno> I wonder how transparent you could make it with ssh's ProxyCommand directive.  have ssh from the developers box go via a middle-man on your site, have the remote sites only accept connections from the middle-man, and then you've got a central point you can revoke access at, without changing their workflow
<diplo> shauno: thats exactly what I was going to try and acheive
<diplo> Wasn't sure if it was good practice though
<BigRedS> shauno: might be smoothest to configure a VPN, and just mandate that they all connect with that first.
<shauno> I think it kinda depends.  if the remote machines only need to accept connections from you, then firewalling ssh down to a single point of entry seems very sane
<BigRedS> yeah, I meant have them VPN to your single host, and then ssh from that to the other hosts
<BigRedS> rather than proxying SSH
<shauno> if they need to accept connections from some vague definition of 'everywhere', you don't save yourself anything because the developers can still connect directly
<BigRedS> just that ProxyCommand seems a less-well-tested system than both a VPN and SSH
<shauno> ssh can be its own ProxyCommand, which reduces complexity a lot
<ali1234> "how do others connect to multiple linux boxes with multiple users and manage keys" - i don't understand the question
<ali1234> i just put my public key on the server and then forget about it
<diplo> yeah, so I have 80 sites, some with more than 1 machine all with a users ssh pub key on it
<shauno> something like "Host Remote, ProxyCommand ssh bastion -W %h:%p", and then 'ssh Remote' will ssh to 'bastion' and from bastion to Remote
<diplo> If a member of staff left and the key was from a personal pc he'd still have access to all those customer servers
<ali1234> diplo so your question is simply "how to revoke keys"
<diplo> Or what is the best set up in that situation, it would be a pain to revoke that many keys and to check them
<ali1234> "that many keys" - no, one key
<diplo> Which is why I was asking about a single server connection, and we locally ssh to that server via a key, so only one server to revoke from
<ali1234> sounds like a plan
<ali1234> of course if someone wanted to be malicious they could just install their own keys on the other servers
<ali1234> and then avoid the central server
<diplo> yeah that is very true.. :)
<ali1234> if you try to firewall it then they can set up a reverse tunnel
<diplo> not sure they would, but it's just when I set it up I don't want to do it more than once :D
<BigRedS> ali1234: only if they could get in to set it up
<ali1234> i would probably go for some kind of system where there is a central authorization server
<BigRedS> if you have a single server which is the only place SSH to the other servers is permitted from and you deny someone access to that, then they cannot ssh to the other servers
<ali1234> BigRedS: if you don't want them to get in then this is not a problem. simply don't issue them any keys or logins at all
<BigRedS> no, when you wish to revoke their access
<BigRedS> you revoke their access to the bastion (by removing their key, user, whatever) adn then they cannot get to that machine to then get on to the others
<diplo> yeah I think accept ssh logins from local network and from one server externally if that's possible
<diplo> Right, I'm going to test this out over the next few days with a few customers
<BigRedS> then you're asuming they can't get in to the local network
<BigRedS> you'd need to have control over teh outermost firewall, really
<diplo> Cheers for input guys
<BigRedS> (where 'they' is recently-sacked staff)
<diplo> We are in control of most of our customers setups
<ali1234> BigRedS: i would install a reverse tunnel on the server along with my public key. i can then log in to it even if you revoke my bastion access
<popey> that can be prevented in ssh config though can't it?
<popey> (setting up tunnels)
<popey> or indeed in the firewall
<ali1234> who said i would use ssh?
<diplo> heh
<shauno> do the developers have/need sudo/root on the remote machines?
<diplo> yeah occasionally
<BigRedS> ali1234: ah, but can be blocked by the firewall
<ali1234> you will have to lock down my user account so i can't install any software at all and can't initiate IP connections
<diplo> But 90% of the time not
<ali1234> or you will have to cnfigure the firewall to prevent any outgoing or incoming connections at all
<shauno> was just wondering if making authorized_keys root:root 644 would work.
<popey> no, ssh will fail
<ali1234> if you do the first thing you might as well not give me access at all
<shauno> ssh will fail if your private key is readable, not your public key
<ali1234> effectively keeping out rogue admins is pretty hard since they need to be able to do all the things required to install back doors
<diplo> The only one person they worried about has gone now, only one they'd need to worry about now is me :)
<ali1234> what about is you use this bastion thing combined with an admin-only VPN
<ali1234> and some really restrictive firewall rules on that VPN
<diplo> I think that's where we need to be yeah
<shauno> that depends on what the remote site needs though.  if they'll still allow connections from anywhere, your vpn isn't required
<diplo> Some sites have the worst routers, the current support guys leave ports wide open to the net
<ali1234> it's all rather pointless if there is only you using it though
<diplo> It's just an overhaul we need, going to document and pass on I think
<diplo> Anyone else seen this issue http://askubuntu.com/questions/296801/aboutblank-opens-in-chromium-when-i-type-into-the-dash ?
<diplo> Quick search on launchpad I've not found anything yet
<MartijnVdS> no, but I don't use the dash
<diplo> Does it on boot, google trying to auth pops open chormium
<diplo> after logging in, but also does it as per that as well
<MartijnVdS> I do get an auth popup on login
<MartijnVdS> that I don't type my password into because it doesn't identify itself properly (I don't know what I'm authenticating for)
<diplo> I've already closed 3 about:blanks, another 3 open and a facebook auth one as well
<diplo> yeah, can't say I like the way that works atm
<Laney> just dropped a box of 12 eggs
<Laney> surprisingly messy
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<brobostigon> sunny day, scrambled eggs. :)
<Laney> luckily it was on a concrete floor in the garage
<brobostigon> easy cleanup.
<Laney> well they're pretty hard to wipe up
<Laney> got up what i could and then dumped a watering can over the rest ...
<brobostigon> ah.
<AlanBell> evening
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<popey> evening AlanBell
<iPenguin> Hello
<popey> lo
<iPenguin> Is it possible to install ubuntu with using a usb or a disc?
<DJones> !usb | iPenguin
<lubotu3`> iPenguin: For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<DJones> For a disk, you'd need a dvd to copy the iso to, but yes you can install froma live dvd
<iPenguin> This does not help.
<czajkowski> iPenguin: in what way doesnt it help?
<iPenguin> I found it now.
<iPenguin> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/install-ubuntu-with-windows
<iPenguin> If i install ubuntu after i used the windows installer would xp be swiped off the system?
<DJones> iPenguin: If you mean using the wubi installer, then no, that creates a fake file system within windows to run Ubuntu from, but its not intended for long term use, its more for people just wanting to try Ubuntu before installing it properly
<AlanBell> iPenguin: no, it should shrink xp and let you install alongside it (if you have enough space, and enough partitions)
<iPenguin> What happens if i install it properly from the windows boot?
<AlanBell> so, do you know how your disk is partitioned at the moment?
<AlanBell> is there a recovery partition etc?
<AlanBell> there can be problems if it has been set up with 4 primary partitions (because that is the limit)
<AlanBell> if there are fewer then you are OK as it can create secondary partitions (it needs 1 primary partition to put all the secondary partitions in)
<AlanBell> so unless your manufacturer has been obnoxious and used 4 primary paritions you will be fine, it will be able to shrink the windows stuff and create linux partitions alongside, then on bootup you will get a menu that lets you choose which operating system to start
<diddledan> evening
<diddledan> popey: I've google+'d you some photos of my macbook
<popey> ooh
<popey> you sure?
<diddledan> I think so?
<popey> i see no notifications or owt
<diddledan> oddness
<popey> very
<popey> i see them now
<mungbean> the eagle has landed \o/
<mungbean> watching it)
<redtap|away> daftykins: You about ?, ping .
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: I thought you were in Wales this week ?
<redtape|renegade> OT | What is a Mozspace, and why should I care ? .. https://wiki.mozilla.org/IRC#Commonly_Used_Mozilla_IRC_Channels
<redtape|renegade> Apparently there's one in london  ( ? )  http://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/03/23/a-look-inside-mozillas-new-london-co-working-space/
<diddledan> cool. now to make one happen in basingstoke :-p
<redtape|renegade> diddledan: I guess it's a hackspace with an identity.
<diddledan> looks friendly and welcoming
<redtape|renegade> mm.. orange is a nice colour, i guess.
<redtape|renegade> Why do they always have to be in the center of a city .. why not on the way to the airport etc ?
<redtape|renegade> diddledan: I went to a FOSDEM talk with a key mozilla dude, and it all seemed very corporate to me, not a hacking community, per se.
<diddledan> hmm
<redtape|renegade> I know they are open, but I think it's not *that* 'open'.
<redtape|renegade> most people are switching to chrome anyhow .
<redtape|renegade> What do you use ?
<diddledan> I'm a chromatic
<shauno> I think firefox needs to go on a diet :/
<redtape|renegade> I use firefox because it's just easier to download youtube videos etc .. but i use chrome when i need to get a good upload going ..
<redtape|renegade> If only someone would actually make the 'thumbs-up-facebook-button' blocker extension, people would really have a reason to use it.   .. the hardcore users, that is
<redtape|renegade> I'm just stuck with ABP and no script for now .. sigh.
<redtape|renegade> shauno: Anything good on then  box, over there ? I hear there was a RTE documentary on nurseries that got ppl talking.
<shauno> I don't watch a whole lot of TV, really
<redtape|renegade> oh yes, i forgot ..
<shauno> especially RTE.  I tend to avoid those, just because they make me irate about my â¬160 licence
<redtape|renegade> fair enough.
<redtape|renegade> shauno: I have to say, Galway has been quiet, or at least I haven't heard much from there, recently, .. much going on ?
<shauno> dunno, I live on the internet :)
<shauno> no volvo race this year, which has been the big noise the last few summers
<redtape|renegade> iron man ?
<shauno> I think that's later in the year.  I stumbled upon a couple of years ago, and would have been early august
 * redtape|renegade is looking for a travel partner, but does know where to look .. :(
<redtape|renegade> **doesn't know where to look..
<shauno> I gotta say it bothers me that firefox was meant to be the 'reboot' because mozilla had turned into a meandering behomoth.  and is now considerably larger than mozilla ever was
<redtape|renegade> OT | Anyone felt the quake today ? http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/experts-say-quake-aftershocks-likely-in-coming-days-595954.html
<redtape|renegade> Funnily enough, I was awake at the time, but felt sod all ; due to not giving a ..
<redtape|renegade> probably because I was playing Quake III at the time >_<
<shauno> I can't say the earth's moved for me recently either
<diddledan> I felt the earth move.. I had beans last night
<redtape|renegade> they always seem to happen in the morning too .. strange that.
 * redtape|renegade is still looking out for daftykins .. somewhere on the loose.
<redtape|renegade> OOh got a good website ( like finding an old friend :) ) Some good links there ... http://techrights.org/2013/05/29/fedora-19-previews/
<shauno> I mostly travel to visit friends now.  it's a bit more boring in some regards, but a lot more interesting in others
<shauno> the biggest downside is that I have itchy feet, and keep looking at jobs in bizarre countries
<redtape|renegade> shauno: Whereas, I travel 'cos I want to see something different that you can't really get a proper feel for on the internet .. like Cornwall.
<shauno> that's where visiting people really works out.  you get to see a lot more with a local, instead of just driving around in circles until you end up drinking scrumpy jack on a tiny beach that'll kill you if you don't get off it at the right time
<redtape|renegade> yeah, been there before ..
<redtape|renegade> I suppose I should try to find my couchsurfing P/word again ..
<redtape|renegade> I just don't like putting that type of pressure on people, for me to stay with them :/
<shauno> I'm really curious about moving east, but I can't get my head around the difference in pay rates
<redtape|renegade> east .. like Dulwich east or wat ?
<shauno> lol
<shauno> a little further than that
<shauno> strednÃ¡ eurÃ³pa type east
<diddledan> you will go playing doctors with foreigners!
<diddledan> it's your own fault
<redtape|renegade> Oh, central europe .. https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stredn%C3%A1_Eur%C3%B3pa
<redtape|renegade> whoops
<shauno> that's the one :)
<shauno> crazy language, but I'm trying.  I just look like an idiot whenever I actually try to use it
<shauno> it's amazing how quickly conversations diverge from beginners vocab.  it's never anything like it is in the books
<shauno> chap on the plane asked me how long the flight was.  told him three hours.  so he said something to the effect of "oh, we arrive at 2pm".  told him no, 1pm.  whereupon I realised I can barely explain timezones in english, let alone slovak
<diddledan> lol
<redtape|renegade> My pizza guy is from Bulgaria .. he says you can buy a house for Â£5K (in Bulgaria) .. but after a week the Gypsie's sense a disturbance of a newcomer in the force, wait till you pop out for the milk ; then pinch your furniture .. lol
<diddledan> o_O
<redtape|renegade> lets see if he's right, then ..
<shauno> it's not quite that low in slovakia, but still .. it's very odd trying to consider job postings for roughly a third of what I'm making here
<shauno> it'd almost help if they weren't on the euro, so my head would quit trying to draw direct comparisons
<redtape|renegade> mm Bulgarian Property : Cheap, but is it legit /  [ http://bit.ly/Zu8Ngw ]
<shauno> bulgaria seems a bit too remote to actually relocate to.  perhaps for a vacation property, but not somewhere to live & work
<shauno> I've more been looking for cities that have a decent number of multinationals looking for a cheap workforce.  more likely to find tech work that is happy to take english-speaking that way
<shauno> eg, bratislava has places like dell, ibm, at&t, novell, amazon, even msft .. where even the locals are expected to speak english at work
<shauno> I'm all in favour of learning the language, but I'd rather not have to depend on it for work.  that's a pretty unachievable timeframe
<redtape|renegade> shauno: All I recall from Slovakia is there's too many swinger parties :)
<shauno> "too many"?  ;)
<shauno> they've struck me as pretty conservative so far
<shauno> and very family-centric.  even in the cities, most seem to keep strong connections with family in towns & villages, and still take the trek out for family pig-kilings
<shauno> (it's "a thing".  they have a few "things" I don't quite understand yet.  like whipping their women to celebrate easter)
<redtape|renegade> oh dear, it's all gone a bit /Borrat/
<shauno> well, I doubt many countries understand gloucestershire cheese-rolling either.  we all have "things" that look bizarre
<diddledan> my thing definitely looks bizarre
<diddledan> wait, what?
<diddledan> tmi?
<shauno> or morris dancers
 * redtape|renegade still still doesn't ' get ' Chris Evans ^_^
<shauno> being british is hugely entertaining, but it doesn't make us the best judges of what's actually "normal".  we have men in plaid skirts who laugh at the germans for wearing leather pants
<redtape|renegade> yeah.
<shauno> the scottish national dress is worryingly similar to irish catholic school uniforms
<redtape|renegade> shauno: On a lighter note .. I've been listening to 2XM for 3 months solid now on VLC / streaming .. and It's a great RTE station, for me. :::: http://icecast1.rte.ie/2xm
<shauno> besides.  pigs taste good.  true story.
<diddledan> pigs' fat tastes amazing when cooked right
<redtape|renegade> must be the doughnutz .. lol.
<redtape|renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA_Tl1kvlQU : tonites' topic..
<shauno> this was the one that made me o_O  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5_dPOj86FA   but little things like having carp for christmas dinner still strike me as odd too (and that you're meant to bring it home alive and keep it in the bathtub)
<redtape|renegade> i like the way they celebrate it with a photo .. very telling.
<redtape|renegade> wow.. i just realized to the right/options .. there's a lot of them, like that .. :)
<shauno> indeed
<shauno> anyway, enough babbling from me.  suffice to say I find it fascinating.
 * redtape|renegade opens a beer .. to end the day :D
<redtape|renegade> shauno: Are there any IRC channels that people of Ireland use , other than #ubuntu-ie ?
<shauno> no idea, to be honest
<shauno> I know the local hackerspace have #091labs, but I haven't been in there, so I couldn't tell if how trafficked it is
<shauno> but for the most part, freenode tends to be by subject, rather than geography
<redtape|renegade> i clicked the #0911labs channel .. only two people on it !
<redtape|renegade> and no 'topic' to talk of ! even worse.
<shauno> no idea if they actually use it, besides the obvious (1am)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-30
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer !
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning.
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<shrik> Plusnet has kicked Sky butt so far..
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Loomis Day! :-D
<dwatkins> I'm very happy with IDNet, who I switched to after Sky bought BeThere, my previous ISP.
<popey> odd. http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/  showed 191 games 2 days ago, now it shows 212 games!
<BigRedS> I really need to get a graphics card modern enough to have support in a kernel from this decade...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<daftykins> morning all o/
<dwatkins> allo allo
<bigcalm> Goodness, there is life
<daftykins> all over the place too!
<daftykins> BigRedS: how old a card are you running? :)
<BigRedS> Actually, it's not *that* old
<BigRedS> I've no idea what it is any more, but it was reasonably good in ~2010
<daftykins> lspci? :)
<BigRedS> it's at home
<daftykins> aww
<BigRedS> I never use it except for Wintendo :)
<daftykins> i'm waiting on my friends new desktop build that i get to put together today
<daftykins> it should arrive today
<daftykins> pretty top-end spec, it is
<redtape|renegade> morning daftykins . hows the isle ?
<daftykins> redtape|renegade: hallo o/
<daftykins> a little wet lately but otherwise not bad thanks :) how's yours?
<redtape|renegade> long time , no 'see you jimmy' .. :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> yeah i lurk around a lot
<daftykins> aww they just called me to say they'll be delivered lunchtime
<redtape|renegade> i get a new hdd today :)
<daftykins> :O
<redtape|renegade> only cost Â£11 .. off ebay :)
<daftykins> O_O what for?
<popey> \o/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW/ arrived yesterday..
<popey> should mean my phone doesn't die on the boat trip next week
<mungbean> what's the best method for removing reallly sticky glue off shiny aluminium?
<mungbean> gonna try the hairbryer method on the sticker first
<popey> mungbean: goo gone
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Goo-Gone-Cleaning-Liquid-29/dp/B003BQRQ02
<redtape|renegade> daftykins: 160GB HDD ... Ooooooh, I hope it was used in and credit card call center .. and they forgot to wipe it or summit :D
<dwatkins> mungbean: warm water, failing that, something white spirit based as popey says
<dwatkins> I have a bottle imaginitively entitled "sticker remover" which I got from "Ali's Cave", a shop in Edinburgh that has pretty much everything
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> mungbean: WD-40 and a scouring pad
<popey> if you like scratched aluminimum?
<popey> -typo
<mungbean> looking for the free approach
<mungbean> might try hairdryer first, wd40 second,
<popey> the free approach is come to my house and use some of my goo gone
<BigRedS> Ah, I guess it's probably not so good on polished ali. It's what I use routinely to get duct/duck tape off bits of bikes
<mungbean> Make DIY Goo Gone or Goof Off at home using just two ingredients: coconut oil and baking soda.
<daftykins> mungbean: try some nail polish remover
<mungbean> daftykins: ah yes, that was the other idea
<redtape|renegade> What about apple sauce and BBQ firestater ?
<mungbean> its a largeish area and a very sticky sticker
<daftykins> given proximity to femmes that should be free :D
<daftykins> redtape|renegade: wow you really buy some ghetto hardware - 160GB wouldn't hold my music collection these days
<popey> i can never find the nail polish remover in our house
<popey> not that I personally need it that often
<popey> *ahem*
 * daftykins has a big bottle of isopropyl alcohol for processor/heatsink cleaning
<daftykins> popey: after every night out i expect? ;)
<redtape|renegade> daftykins: It's just for a academic programming computer .. not downloading much on that one .. perhaps some Pdf's, that's it ..
<BigRedS> I discovered that our bastion server only has a 20G HDD the other day
 * redtape|renegade hits everyone .. with a woman's weekly ::: ASK the girls !!
<mungbean> 4) will try olive oil + baking soda
<redtape|renegade> 5) cinnamon and the spit of a cornishman :)
 * redtape|renegade believes his sillyness needs to be curtailed :(
<redtape|renegade> OT | Off the to the Manx Laundry Unit today .. Dadsie asked for afew 16Â½ inch white shirts. Silly me bought ten of them .. off ebay.co.uk And they all arrived yesterday (a week later) | PS .. No yokes about 'laundry money' etc here Plz. **cough.
<BigRedS> I have no idea what you're talking about
<redtape|renegade> About the laundrette ?
<daftykins> did he want them earlier than the whole week i take it?
<redtape|renegade> No . I'm just surprised that the bloke at the post office bought them all at once .. it's his birthday next week anyhow.
<shrik> shirts off ebay?
<redtape|renegade> yepsie.
<redtape|renegade> mostly calvin klein
<daftykins> i'm beginning to think your feedback score has hundreds of results on ebay redtape|renegade ;)
<daftykins> as in you're a frequent customer
<redtape|renegade> 400..
<redtape|renegade> (keep in mind only 1 in 5 bothers leaving feedback :) )
<shrik> wonder why i haven't ever thought of looking at apparel on ebay -- I guess in my mind it's still second-hand stuff
<popey> yeah, I've never considered buying clothes off ebay
<redtape|renegade> .. just needs a clean .. I like it because it's 'tried and tested' and you can   always return the clobber..
<redtape|renegade> .. and you can read the reviews ...
<daftykins> shrik: that's the thought that comes to me yeah
<daftykins> the trouble with user review based sites, is you get peoples opinions
<BigRedS> yeah, everything's subjective rather than objective
<BigRedS> though I've more than once bought a product because the slew of negativer reviews were people complaining the product was exactly what I was looking for
<daftykins> e.g. when it comes to technology, if you went by reviews on Amazon you'd probably never get anything, because every Tom, Dick and Harry of course replies with their luck. some just aren't capable of properly making use of some gear they buy
<daftykins> BigRedS: hahaha
<popey> yeah, i bought my printer on amazon where all the reviews were negative
<popey> but all the reviews were focussed on the windows printer driver, not the printer itself
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> such people install windows drivers from the CD anyway :(
<popey> i plugged the printer in to my ubuntu laptop and it was ready to print before I'd sat down and put the ink in it
<daftykins> with the autorun installers no less!
<daftykins> good ol' cups
<BigRedS> Haha, I remember turning up somewhere with an emergency replacement lexmark printer, spending about an hour trying to find/build the drivers before realising that it'd been working since about when I'd plugged it in
 * redtape|renegade always beieved in the 'eopinions' website way of doing it .. get paid for writing reviews by amazon incentive programs .. If Ubuntu could only harness that .. we'd all let Ubuntu 'PAY-US' a cheque for reviewing products etc .. wonderfull idea .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinions .. Can't wait till my distro . jumps on it.
<BigRedS> I'd heard so much bad about lexmark that I'd not even thought to see if it'd Just Worked
<redtape|renegade> It works because you search using google or a product .. usually with 'review' in the title , then the e-opinions webpage comes up .. you see the amazon link... buy it (hopefully) .. then the reviewer get a small cheque .. I think.
<redtape|renegade> oh .. and each reviewer has a stats page with comments to see if they are genuine ..
<redtape|renegade> genius idea.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<redtape|renegade> mornin'
<brobostigon> morning redtape|renegade
<redtape|renegade>  guess my question is :: WHY CANT Ubuntu pay us to-do reviews ?
<brobostigon> more like canonical, ubuntu cant pay you anything.
<redtape|renegade> troo.. but my vquestion ?
<daftykins> i'd imagine they're burning enough money already
<redtape|renegade> yeah, but it will become profitable after 200 milion people buy the phone !
<brobostigon> as sabdfl has said before, canonical burns more money than it makes.
<BigRedS> why would canonical buy reviews from people?
<BigRedS> I'd not trust those any more than freely given ones, perhaps less. There'd always be the assumption that the reviewer has decided to be nice in teh hope of getting more money for more reviews
<BigRedS> and, besides, most people can't write a good review of an OS
<redtape|renegade> BigRedS: dID YOU LOOK AT THE WEBSITE i GAVE ?  soz for caps.
<BigRedS> epinions? I'm familiar with teh idea, I just distrust the reviews it produces
<redtape|renegade> Well, If you dont trust people in the community .. what hope is there ?
<daftykins> essentially, reviews come from people, people can't be trusted
<redtape|renegade> They are just 'guides'..
<daftykins> redtape|renegade: you get negative reviews because the colour of something isn't the shade someone thought it was from the pictures - though ;)
<redtape|renegade> Maybe that's why canmonical has no money ?
<BigRedS> I distrust reviews that are being written because people are paying for them slightly more than I distrust reviews that are written because the writer has a strongly held opinion
<BigRedS> At least in the latter the author is writing simply because they feel that whatever it is they have to say needs to be said
<BigRedS> But I am a massive cynical hippy
<redtape|renegade> understandable then.
<daftykins> ugh my crunchy nut cornflakes have gone soft :(
 * daftykins reviews them poorly, with the caveat the box is 2 months old
<daftykins> ^_^
<redtape|renegade> daftykins: Oooh .. that's terrible .. have you told the police ?
<BigRedS> daftykins: amateur
<daftykins> redtape|renegade: they're next on my list
<daftykins> BigRedS: how does that work :( am i an amateur cereal eater?
 * redtape|renegade write a 'review of the police' on his to-do list ..
<BigRedS> daftykins: yeah, I'm afraid that soggy cereal is a pretty strong hallmark of that
<BigRedS> that and an absence of sponsor logos on your spon
<redtape|renegade> better that an serial amateur eater :D :D
<daftykins> BigRedS: :(
<popey> Canonical has no money?
 * popey checks his pay-slip
<BigRedS> Yeah, canonical definitely seems to have money
<ali1234> redtape|renegade: the real answer is because canonical has no products that they sell for money
<ali1234> except mugs, t-shirts, and pens
<popey> that's not true
<bigcalm> http://shop.canonical.com/
<ali1234> oh and landscape
<ali1234> and ubuntu one subscriptions
<redtape|renegade> popey I wonder why they dont update the USB Key to 13.04 etc .. to give ppl the optin of getting updates if offline ? http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1043
<bigcalm> And support services
<ali1234> none of these things are actually products
<AlanBell> and 7 digital music
<redtape|renegade> hi AlanBell !
<ali1234> it is difficult to review a subscription service because it can turn to crap the day after you reviewed it
<ali1234> thus it is difficult to trust reviews
<redtape|renegade> ali1234: I dont think you trust anyone, anyway !
 * redtape|renegade kinda agrees with you, too.
<ali1234> so basically if you want to write a review of an ubuntu product basically you are stuck with the pens and hats
<Myrtti> redtape|renegade: because they have a big box of them from 12.10 and haven't sold them all?
<redtape|renegade> ali1234: The idea was to encompass any Ubuntu/ amazon search results .. off the shoppping scope. but i think that time has passed.
<Laney> nah, it was a decision to stop doing them and focus on LTS for things like that
<ali1234> so i've got a question
<ali1234> how do i buy support for one computer without landscape?
<ali1234> on the shop it just tells me to go to askubuntu
<ali1234> which is useless
<czajkowski> Laney: indeed
<czajkowski> the fact they are sold out says it all
<czajkowski> aquarius: ping a ling long
<aquarius> czajkowski, pong
<czajkowski> aquarius: disregard :)
<czajkowski> you replied
<aquarius> k
<daftykins> i always love the optimism of people
<daftykins> this guy on the main channel
<daftykins> "i want to run this program that the manufacturer says supports redhat only"
<daftykins> thus proceeds to try and run it under ubuntu
<daftykins> good times
<ali1234> what is wrong with that?
<daftykins> did i say there was?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Discourse is rather coolio isn't it?
<NET||abuse> so cool, new virgin media setup at home, proper speed compared to my sky dsl
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah â»
<daftykins> NET||abuse: cable? hope you enjoy their flaky network downtime :D
<popey> better than forums
<NET||abuse> 61.9Mb/s down, would love better up but 2.9Mb/s up isn't bad,, 350KB/s aparently
<daftykins> i'm sensing a rather righteous attitude from some regulars this morning Â¬_Â¬
<NET||abuse> daftykins: well, day 3 and no issues, i have a heartbeat running frmo my home machine, piping snmp data to my vps to see if there's issues.
<davmor2> Morning all
<NET||abuse> should be fun. but i got tivo and a second room box with the deal for free.. and i've no tv :(
<NET||abuse> wondering about tv anywhere on linux.. flash 11.4 needed aparently.
<NET||abuse> ubuntu 12.10 uses flash 11.2 even though latest is 11.7, and chrome's pepper pot flash is 11.7 but virgin say the custom flash has issues and probably doesn't work with the drm stuff
<daftykins> NET||abuse: ja, i had VM cable back in Uni time down in Portsmouth. some nights i'd be forced to go to bed at a certain time 'cause the cable 'modem' would just be desync'd for a few hours after midnight - it was rare, couple of times a quarter maybe
<NET||abuse> well, i'm gonna try and log it with my vps's monitoring when it does happen, even when i'm not there, pushlish SLA vs actual % uptime for laughs
<davmor2> daftykins: the only time VM is down for me is when there are hardware issues there end.
<NET||abuse> but it's the fiber network i'm on, wondering if it'll be much better
<daftykins> davmor2: yeah - that's kinda what i'm getting at :)
<diplo> Morning all
<shrik> wait, people don't like soggy cereal..?
<NET||abuse> but anyhow,, anyone know a good deal on a tv? I'm looking at the smasun 32" eu32f5000 going for 299 in curry's
<daftykins> i eat cereal dry
<daftykins> mines just a bit old so it's gone soft :(
<daftykins> they're just 'nut cornflakes' now - not crunchy :(
<davmor2> once or twice a year seems to be the norm for a few days of flakeyness while it is fixed.  IE fault occurs temp fix in place order hardware day or two after it goes dead again for a couple of hours or so while they replace the hardware smooth running again
<shrik> daftykins: Yeah, that's the only situation I'd like the cereal to be crunchy, but with milk it's gotta be soggy
<daftykins> i never eat cereal with milk
<daftykins> to me it's weird :D
<shrik> daftykins: doesn't it make you thirsty?
<daftykins> nah
<davmor2> NET||abuse: Asda do a polaroid 40 inch for about Â£50 less that we haven't had a fault with
<NET||abuse> davmor2: having a gander..
<davmor2> NET||abuse: http://direct.asda.com/TVs/4041,default,sc.html
<shrik> is anyone else having trouble with Firefox being unusually crashy on 13.04?
 * BigRedS isn't
<shrik> I'm on the Aurora channel
<shrik> (if that matters..)
<davmor2> NET||abuse: Looks like it has gone back up so it is a similar price but they have a tosh 32in with dvd at 260
 * popey stopped using firefox about 6 months ago
<NET||abuse> Yeh, reviews on that tosh says blurry image motion
<BigRedS> Is aurora the firefox RC?
<davmor2> shrik: you should try it in 13.10 nearly every page load crashes it
<BigRedS> I used to run that, but then I became a luddite
 * popey hugs chromium
<ali1234> yeah i've had that problem too
<popey> looking forward to that being the default
<ali1234> not with 13.04
<shrik> BigRedS: it's one channel above the nightlies - a little more stable, and a little less bleeding edge
<BigRedS> I tried Chromium, couldn't work out how to make its version of NoScript work
<ali1234> it happened when firefox upgraded in 12.10 as well
<ali1234> it crashes a few times a day
<BigRedS> And, also, I quite like a web browser produced by someone with no interests in a closed web. There's that hippy in me again...
<ali1234> chromium is rubbish. it does not have useful ad block or script blocking
<popey> wfm
<ali1234> it has plugins for it but they do not work
<shrik> davmor2: I had a bit of rough time moving up to 13.04, so I'll stick to it a while before shaking things up again..
<ali1234> they are not kept up to date
<ali1234> so they miss most things
<popey> i havent seen an advert for months
<BigRedS> I don't use an adblocker. I do use flashblock, though
<ali1234> it also does not support rss feds
<popey> ghostery is quite neat too
<shrik> popey: does it work for blocking ads in Youtube videos..? I only keep Chrome around for testing..
<BigRedS> is there a ghostery in chromium?
<popey> yes
<popey> and yes shrik
<BigRedS> ahh, I was wondering which of the two you were saying it was quite neat in :)
<BigRedS> ah, I guess that's what I should've looked at instead of noscript
<popey> well i dont use firefox so all my comments relate to chromium
<shrik> (..and vice versa)
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, that should've been obvious :)
<NET||abuse> hmm, going to study reviews of the asda telly's vs what's on curry's,,, anywhere else worth looking for good prices on not really out of date tv's?
<popey> richer sounds?
<NET||abuse> ohh, will check there :) cheers
<mungbean> amazon
<NET||abuse> mungbean: for telly's the same tv in curry's for 299 was 499 on amazon
<mungbean> camelcamelcamel
<NET||abuse> ahh, depends on the search you do.. found it now on amazon for 294 :)
<daftykins> i picked up a Samsung 55" LED 6800 series for Â£900 delivered off Amazon a bit ago
<daftykins> it's amazing
<BigRedS> mungbean: Mushroom! Mushroom!
<mungbean> my telly still has a crt
<NET||abuse> 55",, jeebus,, you running a cinema? :P that's a big ass telly.
<NET||abuse> mungbean: i had a telly 3 years ago, it was a crt.. haven't had another tv since
<daftykins> especially given Audio Return Channel (ARC) support with my Onkyo AV receiver - so it sends the sound over the single HDMI feed to the amp to play there :D
<daftykins> NET||abuse: pretty much home cinema yeah ^_^ hehe, nah i moved into my new place with a 2006 model 40" Sony, it was tiiiiiny in this place so i upgraded
<NET||abuse> yeh, i'll investigate sounds setups further down the road, but definately will do something.
<mungbean> having a crt works out cheaper , cos i don't end up buying gadgets with hdmi or having upscaling issues
<NET||abuse> daftykins: mmm, nice to be able to spalsh out like that :0
<daftykins> mungbean: but you have to keep going to the opticians to have them tell you - "no, it really is that blurry sir"
<davmor2> NET||abuse: Tesco do some good deals too
<daftykins> NET||abuse: i did struggle to commit to the purchase, but once i gave in and it got here i was very pleased i did :)
<mgdm> It's amazing the difference between a decent analogue TV signal displayed on a nice CRT and the garbage you get over Freeview
<daftykins> gave the old one to my parents, it only had one HDMI it was so old school
<mungbean> i don't find my crt blurry
<NET||abuse> daftykins: luls
<popey> i sometimes wish i still had my Sony FD-1 CRT
<mgdm> Freeview HD gets you back to roughly where analogue left off
<daftykins> well, we only know the quality we're used to really
<mungbean> exactly
<shrik> BigRedS: have you heard the Brian May version?
<NET||abuse> hmm, richer sounds maching amazon for price now on that tv..
<mungbean> what's worse is watching non HD content on a 1080p telly
<NET||abuse> why can't i just win a tv somehow :)
<daftykins> playing SD eps on my HTPC out onto my TV actually look impressively good
<mungbean> i'm a bit anti "Richard Sounds" cos of one of their jerky staff being jerky
<daftykins> we have a particularly shocking cinema over here, so i'd definitely much prefer to watch things at home than there :D
<mungbean> i like calling it Richard Sounds in conversation, and people saying, did you just say Richard? "no of course not"
<mungbean> then doing it again
<BigRedS> shrik: no...
 * BigRedS googles
<daftykins> mungbean: sounds like a hoot
<shrik> BigRedS: he collab'ed with the creator of badger badger to produce a version protesting the badger cull
<BigRedS> ah, I did hear about that actually
<daftykins> Weebl's stuff!
<BigRedS> Handy pie cannon!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> everyone knows 1.5 is better than 1
<daftykins> aaaaah running out of storage space
<daftykins> 5TB isn't enough
<daftykins> :<
<BigRedS> yes it is. you have too much stuff
<daftykins> naaah
<daftykins> it's just the state of HD video
<daftykins> on a clients system we're using about 9TB just from his ~950+ DVD collection all ripped onto storage, to provide for discless HTPCs
<diplo> What do you rip to daftykins ?
<diplo> I run a si,ilar system, upto about 4TB myself
<diplo> similar*
<daftykins> which source type?
<diplo> Rip the DVD's to what format ?
<daftykins> on the clients collection we hired a kid out of our local College of FE, just got him to 1:1 dump down to ISO
<daftykins> i've been debating going through them and chopping out just the film though
<diplo> Oh, so just stored the ISO, I've done that a few times but mainly I rip to mkv/mp4
<daftykins> maybe even just dumping them into a single file .VOB would still play nicely in XBMC and escape the wasted data
<daftykins> yeah i did play a bit with H.264 transcoding
<daftykins> but i wasn't very pleased with the result
<diplo> I've done that before, but my disk space was dropping quickly so went the route of transcoding
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> this guy is happy to just get more storage
<daftykins> more than the 12TB he already has :D
<daftykins> at least he was until 4 of the WD2002FYPS disks died in the same week
<daftykins> that was the worst luck i have ever seen
<diplo> hah, I'm waiting for mine to do that as well, as I can't afford to replace anything atm :(
<diplo> Really need to sort a ups etc
<daftykins> you don't have one on your storage? D:
<daftykins> ~Â£140 for an APC 900VA
<diplo> Nope, cash constraints :/
<daftykins> ah :(
<diplo> Single dad, left house with a huge mortage.. I save a few months to buy stuff for me and lots of other things have been breaking :(
<diplo> Really ought to find some more private work to get some *treat* money
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> what sort of work do you do?
 * christel hugs diplo 
<diplo> IT, web dev/sysadmin for a company in nottingham, but i'm based near bath
<diplo> Hiya christel
<christel> hullu you :)
 * diplo gives christel a big squeeze, nice to have you back around here
<christel> thank you dear! how are you keeping? :)
<daftykins> diplo: ah reet
<diplo> Not to bad thank you, been ill for the last 6 months waiting for the NHS to find a fix but gotten fairly used to it now
<diplo> Yourself ?
<christel> auchies, that is a bit rubbish -- any closer to a resolution, medically?
<diplo> Getting closer, been to see a Neurologist this morning, been asking to go since Feb
<diplo> They think it's something called Horners Syndrome
<christel> that's some eye thing right?
<diplo> Basically severe headaches all the time, and lost a lot of strength in my left arm
<diplo> Bloomin eck! someone heard of it!!!
<diplo> Even the consultants hadn't :D
<christel> hehe
<diplo> yeah, pupils are dilated differently is the first notice, can cause lot's of different conditions and can be caused by lots of different things
<christel> that has to be hard, particularly with the little ones to look after
<diplo> One thing they've cleared is that it's not cancer/tumour related which is a good start
<diplo> Yeah, can be vv hard at times :)
<christel> good! lets hope they figure it all out so that they can find the best treatment for you!
<diplo> yeah I'm crossing my fingers, was hoping it would be resolved in a few weeks, not 6+ months :)
 * Myrtti jumps into the Wikipedia timesink vortex with Horners Syndrome
<shauno> pro tip: take a ball of yarn with you, or you may never find your way back out.  and don't click the 'random page' link, it's laced with cocaine.
<Myrtti> yeah I noticed the cocaine lacing
<Myrtti> relatedly I poked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apraclonidine only gently
<diplo> I've taken more drugs than I care for, probably had that.. lost track :D
<knightwise>  
<BigRedS> Aw. I quite enjoyed pointing out that Ubuntu *still* hasn't even fixed its first bug.
<shauno> it should probably be closed anyway.  apple are winning now, not msft ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> you can buy a chromebook too
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/Ituy9UF.jpg
<daftykins> ooh yeah, kit is here for my friends new PC
<shauno> toys :D
<daftykins> yep i get the fun of a completely new build without having to pay, ideal world \o/
<daftykins> but first, it's lunch time :>
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> hey diddledan
<daftykins> ooh and my bike shop just text me to say my bike's ready to pick up
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> my scooter arrived yesterday :D
<mungbean> but it rained today :(
<dogmatic69> any idea how to stop thunderbird showing messages in the gmail folder
<mungbean> stupid summer
<dogmatic69> I have it configured with a gmail account so emails go all over, inbox, inportant, gmail inbox
<dogmatic69> eg: new mail shows up by the green dots, just want to ignore / remove the crossed out section http://i.imgur.com/sEhPS6i.png
<shrik> woah
<shrik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<shauno> .my have claimed it?
<diddledan> that's ironic considering it was being discussed in here just now - or was the discussion in response to that?
<BigRedS> Yeah, I mentioned it when I saw it'd been closed
<BigRedS> not that .my had their own
<diddledan> .my?
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, there's loads of people/groups it's assigned to
<diddledan> yup. everyone and their dog has it on their list these days
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> anyone using owncloud here ?
<mungbean> yes
<shauno> yup
<knightwise> I have setup an external folder for storing some files (on the same local machine)
<knightwise> But when I want to use the music application , it does not scan that external folder :(
<knightwise> it only scans whats in /var/www/owncloud/data ... etc...
<knightwise> anyone know how to configure it to scan /home/gpodder ?
<mungbean> owncloud client -> add folder
<shauno> I think that's going to involve symlink botches.  otherwise if you just get it to scan that folder, it won't be able to play them because apache's not serving that path
<knightwise> shauno: i think you are right.
<knightwise> would it be better to drop a simlink in my /var/www/owncloud/... folder ?
<mungbean> on the server?
<mungbean> ah, you are trying to stream it
<knightwise> YES ! :)
<mungbean> i just use it for backups
<knightwise> you see , gpodder downloads the files on the server
<shauno> well, adding it with the client is how it's designed to work.  gpodder is your local copy, and then the client syncs it to the server
<knightwise> and thanx to owncloud I can play my podcasts / music on any device-browser
<shauno> to avoid that duplication with them being on the same machine, is going to be hacky
<knightwise> you lost me there , wait i'll try to reexplain
<knightwise> gpodder downloads podcasts to /home/gpodder (chmod 777)
<knightwise> I have pointed owncloud towards that folder as an "external folder" for my user on owncloud
<knightwise> in the files directory , everything shows up fine
 * TheOpenSourcerer shudders whenever he sees "777"
<knightwise> but in the music section , the directory does not get scanned :(
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: its an internal system could also do 755
<mungbean> bug #1 should be "invalid" rather than "released?"
<lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<TheOpenSourcerer> "gpodder downloads podcasts to ... "
<knightwise> gpodder downloads my podcasts to /home/gpodder
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then gives everything executable rights?
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: don't get into supporting commodity hosting :)
<knightwise> no , i opened up the rights.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol BigRedS
<knightwise> i just wanted to point out that owncloud has rwx access to that folder , so its not a permissions issue
<BigRedS> knightwise: does owncloud have rights to the parent dir? /home?
<knightwise> Wat !
<knightwise> hold your horses :) It seems to have fixed itsself
<knightwise> the folder is being scanned :)
<knightwise> its working ! :)
<diddledan> I don't believe in issues "fixing themselves"
<knightwise> no , it just took a little while for the folder to be scanned
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: to be fair, the execute bit on a directory permits people to enter it, so it's frequently needed by things that read
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. BigRedS I am familiar with octal permissions ;-)
<BigRedS> Oh, you've done this before? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> This was a very interesting exercise I did some years ago: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/a-shared-drop-box-using-samba/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still working today.
<BigRedS> ahh, sticky bits!
<daftykins> aaah the smell of new hardware
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<diddledan> I love the smell of ink on new manuals
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves the smell of curry.
<BigRedS> that is a bit cunning. I'll remember that one
<diddledan> yeah, that too
 * xnox thinks i utterly screwed up my laptop.
<diddledan> in the fun way?
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you make a lot of currys as well, I know you like your chillies etc.. if so where do you get recipes from that you can recommend ? I've stupidly offered to do a curry night :)
<xnox> it was doing dist-upgrade to saucy, and it was plugged into it's power supply brick, well..... the power brick on the other hand was not plugged into the wall.
<xnox> I think initramfs got regenerated in the mean time without cryptsetup and thus i can't boot now =)
<diddledan> oops
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I do do lots of cooking. I have ~400 cook books.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/ ;-)
<diddledan> did you know there's a world record of the number of chillis a person can mush into their eyeballs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I also use the internet a lot. This chap has some cracking recipes: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/
<TheOpenSourcerer> diddledan: yes.
<xnox> kernel panics, OOPSES and all that jazz =)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And she did it with Nagas too.
<diplo> I like to cook as well, never got in to currys though although I've always wanted to try, came up in convo and the nominated me to do a 'curry night'
<mungbean> nagios?
<diddledan> xnox: methinks it's an ex laptop
<diplo> thanks for the link, will take a looksy tonight!
<diddledan> nagios as in the thingy to monitor uptime :-p
<diddledan> it's got sharp edges so it's harder to mush into your eyeballs
<mungbean> chilli peppers make me bed/toilet ridden for 2 days anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> diddledan: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/about/p/pub
<mungbean> like jabbing needles in my belly
<TheOpenSourcerer> That picture is of one of this year's C.Pubescens about to flower.
<diddledan> hmm, I just get a blank page :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chillies are kind of "my thing"
<diddledan> with the google + header
<popey> same here
<popey> it redirects a load then fails
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ohh - how about this then: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/about
<diplo> yeah, thought it was because I wasn't logged in
<mungbean> didn't you get the memo? flickr is back
<diddledan> that loads
<diddledan> mungbean: serialz?
<diplo> Going to have to go shopping TheOpenSourcerer, some good looking recipes on there!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - the first link was what google me to view my profile as someone else.
<mungbean> diddledan: what's that about cereal? coco pops pls
<diddledan> lol.. it's a response that shauno got in an email at his workplace - I forget the ins-n-outs but it's funny
<bigcalm> What do people think a sensible time window should be for an API command? To allow for a command from a server not to be correct (or at least not the same as the receiving server)?
<diplo> From start of call to complete you mean ?
<dwatkins> session timeout from login to expiry?
<bigcalm> diplo: not so much. Consider a command that was issued yesterday, didn't get to the end server. The same command and timestamp were resent to the server, the command should be rejected because the timestamp is too far in the past
<bigcalm> Same for the future, in case the server is in the past with respect to the client
<bigcalm> We can assume the timestamp will always be seconds since the epoc and be gmtbased - this removed the problem of timezones
<diplo> Depends I guess on what the time frame of the API call is, ie what data it's getting for it to complete but I'd go with double the time it takes to run ?
<ball> Stick it in a config file in case someone has to change it.
<ball> That's just a thought, anyway.
<ball> ...or make it a compile-time option.
<mungbean> argh this weather
<mungbean> heavy rain again
<mungbean> the weeds will be laughing at me
<DJones> mungbean: The father of my neighbour is next door doing his garden while the neighbour is away, he's actually using a chainsaw
<mungbean> all the flower beds are now grass and weeds
<mungbean> my neighbours are glaring at me
<ball> mungbean: Where are you?
<DJones> I'll have to cut my grass in the next day or so, weather looks dry & fairly sunny for the next week
<ball> It's a beautiful sunny day here but we've had plenty of rain, so I've not needed to water the garden.
<diplo> Just started pouring down here
<diplo> Was quite sunny this morning
<diddledan> wall-to-wall white cloud here
<diplo> ball: from memory aren't you state side ? Been a long time
<mungbean> i only have 30 mins every 2 weeks to cut my lawn and weeding
<mungbean> ball: N London
<ball> diplo: Yes, I live in Illinois.
<ball> mungbean: It takes me longer than 30 minutes just to mow the lawn.
<ball> It's not huge but it's also not as flat as I would like.
<mungbean> i have a london lawn
<ball> ...and my mower is deafening.
<ball> My mother is from London, originally.
<ball> Dad was from Wiltshire.
<diplo> Wiltshire \o/
<popey> my new lawn mower arrived the other day, garden is like a jungle
<diplo> My lawn takes me 2 hours ish
<popey> not been able to mow yet because it's too wet
 * xnox did mine during bank holiday monday =)
<diplo> Need petrol one, borrow dads and it's done in maybe 30-45 mins
<diplo> My dad came over and did mine last week \o/
<xnox> diplo: win!
<ball> popey: Did you go with petrol or electric?
<ball> ...or pushy-whirly one?
<diplo> Defo, although he does a rubbish job it's better than me not doing it :D
<popey> battery
<popey> i already have petrol one which I will get rid of
<ball> popey: Nice.
<popey> wanted something lighter and easier to use
<ball> My next one will be electric (so that I can hear the podcast better while I'm mowing the lawn)
<ball> ...but this petrol mower may outlive me.
<ball> It was my wife's grandfather's mower.
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a ride on mower
<ball> Is the Flymo still a thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very much Petrol powered.
<ball> TheOpenSourcerer: That might be fatal for me.  Mowing the lawn is my primary form of exercise ;-)
<popey> this battery powered jobbie is night and light, so wifey can do the lawn ã
<christel> i managed to mow a tiny bit of my lawn yesterday then it started raining and i gave up!
<dwatkins> If I had a lawn, I'd get a robot to mow it, or a sheep.
<ball> dwatkins: If I thought I could get away with having a sheep in town, that would be a tempting idea.
<ball> I used to know a couple with a few lambs in a pen that they used to move around.  It'd mow and fertilize the lawn at the same time!
<mgdm> a friend of mine has a croft, which had got all kinds of rocks and such in it
<mgdm> so he got some pigs, and fenced off a bit of the croft - they then turned the ground over, fertilized it, and moved all the rocks out
<mgdm> he can now use that bit of the garden and also have pork chops
<ball> Heh.
 * ball ponders whether or not to go and visit a customer.
<mungbean> my flymo blew up when the grass got too long
<mungbean> my neighbour asked me to cut it
<mungbean> i said my wife is pregnant
<popey> your neighbour asked you to?
<dwatkins> does that make it more or less likely you'll cut their grass?
 * ball is confused
<mungbean> the neighbour said we would get rats cos of my 4 week old grass
<BigRedS> Oh, I assumed his neighbor asked him to cut his own grass
<mungbean> my dog was refusing to poo on it
<mungbean> cos it tickled her bum
<BigRedS> hahaha
<SuperEngineer> from the "things not to see at logon files": "my dog was refusing to poo on it cos it tickled her bum"
<mgdm> yeah. That'd be more 'logoff'
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> #context
<SuperEngineer> I assume https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 is old news by now; but I found it a revealing insight into some recent "rationales"
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<brobostigon> what the command again, to make something in /var/www writable by apache ?
<brobostigon> please.
<xnox> SuperEngineer: i found out about 10 minutes ago. It's a remarkable event.
<ball> brobostigon: Does apache own the file?
<brobostigon> ball: chown -r www-data: /folder ?
<ball> brobostigon: I didn't say that ;-)
<brobostigon> ball: no, i am suggesting an option.
<SuperEngineer> xnox: feels kind of premature... it was my main enjoyment in usning Ubuntu [to defeat the "Windowsers"].  Could have sent me a "prepare yourself" first!  ;)
<ball> brobostigon: WHo owns the file?
<SuperEngineer> Guess I'll have to just put up with the apps and usefulness instead ;)
<xnox> SuperEngineer: with 5% laptops shipped pre-installed with Ubuntu worldwide in 2011 & increasing. With Microsoft being Canonical's client and actively writting software for ubuntu and the linux kernel. With PC manufacturers advertising and selling ubuntu machines as "gaming machines". With Steam on Linux........
<ball> brobostigon: ...and is that user in the same group as Apache?
<xnox> SuperEngineer: i was not prepared for any of it to happen.
<brobostigon> ball: chowning it, solved the issue.
<BigRedS> xnox: when MS submitted that code to the kernel for Linux on Hyper-V support, I remember all the "Linus has won" stuff, surely you saw that?
<ball> brobostigon: Well that's one approach.
<ball> (albeit a brute force one ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ooo let's allstart a gripe mail chain the list - he should have warnewd us!!!  lol
<SuperEngineer> *on the list
<brobostigon> ball: certainly, i have only changed temporerily, what needs opening, and will then close it again.
<daftykins> this 4GB nvidia GTX 680 is huge :D
<diddledan> daftykins: three slots wide?
<diddledan> or the usual two?
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/AQAwMup,EQeygsK
<daftykins> more the foot long aspect
<diddledan> is that a silent cooler?
<diddledan> or are there fans underneath?
<diddledan> I don't like that they stuck plastic wrapping all over it - bound to miss some when it goes into the system
<daftykins> two fans
<daftykins> you'd never get passive on a GTX 680
<daftykins> hellz no
<daftykins> these gainward setups are really quiet though
<daftykins> at least the one on my 560 Ti is
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I wonder if anybody has Quad-SLI'd 4 titans yet :-p
<diddledan> are there any pre-packaged systems akin to freeipa.org for ubuntu servers?
<daftykins> aww yeah she's up first time
<daftykins> was there ever any doubt? no, no
<BigRedS> diddledan: is that an SSO-in-a-box?
<diddledan> BigRedS: yeah, seems to be
<BigRedS> oooh
<diddledan> probably overkill for what I was thinking of using it for
<diddledan> but still useful
<diplo> That looks good diddledan
<diplo> You tried it ?
<diddledan> diplo: not yet
<diddledan> it's annoying that it requires a redhatish distro
<diplo> Downside I guess is the Fedora which I guess is why you were asking, from what I remember when reading up though is you can get Directory Server to work on other OS's at a push
<diplo> Could be wrong though
<diplo> Might give it a go anyhoo
<diplo> https://launchpad.net/freeipa
<diddledan> yeah, that's only the client
<diddledan> from what I can tell
<diplo> well it's adding directory server and sssd packaged so i'd say the whole thing ?
<diplo> * Make Ubuntu Server capable of acting as FreeIPA Server.
<diddledan> on precise (that's 12.04, right?):
<diddledan> Binary packages
<diddledan> freeipa-client (amd64) (armel) (armhf) (i386) (powerpc)
<diddledan> python-freeipa (amd64) (armel) (armhf) (i386) (powerpc)
<diplo> yeah
<diddledan> that's from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/freeipa
<diplo> It's to package, wonder if they didn't get that far yet :)
<BigRedS> I guess that it wants full-on SELinux support, so it'll use something that does it by default
<shauno> I really wish redhat would actually put their name on the page when they launch these things, it'd make the whole process a lot more transparent
<diddledan> some things they put the "redhat emerging technologies" logo on, but it's still not quite the same as saying "we're behind this"
<diplo> oh it's Redhat behind it then ?
<diddledan> seems so, yeah
<shauno> I assume so.  they're using redhat.com's mailman instead of fedoraproject.org's, and redhat inc own the domain name
<Laney> I could go for some free IPA
<dwatkins> I get big warnings on my server/netbook that its Ubuntu release is no longer supported. I guess I should consider upgrading it or replacing it with a Raspberry Pi.
<shauno> but they didn't go so far as to actually mention red hat at all on the about page
<TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
<dwatkins> It's running 11.04
 * TheOpenSourcerer *loves* IPA
<Laney> yeah I quite like it
<Laney> in CA just now it's *everywhere*
<diplo> dwatkins: my home server is still on natty ( was the 04 ? )
<Laney> s/it's/it was/
<diplo> need more disks before upgrade though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Decent stuff?
<daftykins> IPA's aftertaste is nasty to me
<daftykins> i go for dark ales instead
<Laney> like the pub over the road had about 8 "IPAs" on and 4 other beers
<dwatkins> diplo: yeah, Natty
<TheOpenSourcerer> IPA's aftertaste is what makes it so yummy
<Laney> i wouldn't have called them all IPA but some were drinkable
<Laney> http://www.bluemonkeybrewery.com/beers/infinity
<Laney> going to the pub tonight - will be on this I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> Greensands IPA (Surrey Hills Brewery) is gorgeous.
<Laney> yum yum yum
<shauno> I tend to avoid IPA because far too many of them turn into a fight to see how hoppy they can make it before it ceases to be liquid
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.surreyhills.co.uk/9089.html
<Laney> shauno: that's what tasters are for!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Darwin's Origin is also rather awesome: http://www.salopianbrewery.co.uk/beers.php
<bashrc> Here's a question: see that there calendar when you click on the date.  Is there an API to shove events into it?
<AlanBell> bashrc: it is evolution
<bashrc> ah
<mgdm> It used to be that there was evolution-data-server running in the background, and it has an API
<mgdm> not sure if that is still the case
<bashrc> Does evolution have a calendar API?
<AlanBell> there is an evolution data service running
<shauno> python-evolution should expose evolution-data-server I think
<bashrc> ok I'll have a look at that
<mgdm> it might also answer to DBus? </wild speculation>
<shauno> everything answers to dbus, I just have no idea what dbus actually is :(
<AlanBell> bonus points if you can get it to point to a google calendar
<bashrc> I was wondering whether I could integrate taskwarrior more into the Unity desktop
<mgdm> shauno: it's a messaging system used internally by various things
<mgdm> shauno: Spotify, for example, has a DBus API you can use to ask what is currenty playing, make it pause, etc
<mgdm> it's used for loads of other stuff though, like hotplugging hardware IIRC
<diddledan> dbus is weird
<diddledan> it's used for all sorts of stuff that doesn't make any sense for a message passing system to be doing
<diddledan> and why do we even need another way of passing messages?
<mgdm> I use it to do this: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/p206x206/255175_10150223834702297_5500005_n.jpg
<mgdm> (hence knowing about the DBus API in Spotify)
<bashrc> I notice that there is a python-dbus package
<mgdm> yep
<bashrc> http://askubuntu.com/questions/193954/coding-own-applicaion-for-gnome-shell-calendar
<bashrc> That might only apply to Gnome shell though
<mgdm> I believe that ought to work regardless of G-S vs. Unity
<mgdm> certainly worth a bash
<bashrc> The sample code at least doesn't crash, which is a good sign
<diplo> bashrc: I use dbus in a backup script to detect usb drives and mount them etc
<diplo> Python based
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: ever tried Exmoor Ale or Exmoor Gold?
<diplo> Very good tbh, pity it doesn't work so well on centos5 and at all on 4
<mgdm> CentOS 4? There's a blast from the past
<daftykins> ugh, running this Intel Management Engine firmware updater
<MartijnVdS> You shouldn't touch stuff in archaeological digs
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperEngineer: we have Exmoor Gold on all the time in my local. It's not bad, but a tad too sweet for me. We also have Moondance on as a standard beer which is my tipple of choice at the local.
<daftykins> it's not done after minutes already X|
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperEngineer: http://www.triplefff.com/beers.html
<diplo> mgdm: We probably still have a dozen customers running it
<diplo> We also have some SCO 5? boxes as well
<diplo> Customers won't pay to fix, and I've not talked my bosses into us updating as a gesture :)
<AlanBell> gosh, from when SCO was a business
<TheOpenSourcerer> My local has 8 real ales on normally. ~4 are regular and ~4 vary. Summer Lightning is another regular and very good too, but quite strong ~5%
<diplo> heh, I reckon we have 4 customers on SCO, and one in our server room!
<diplo> Back on to LDAP for me tomorrow :/
<diplo> And at some point, going to tinker with puppet tomorrow as well
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: "it's not bad"! What!  I invented it - it was my invention whilst at Golden Hill Brewery!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: & the first beer to use or append "Gold"
<SuperEngineer> applause welcome
<popey> hah
 * AlanBell claps
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well that's a very cool claim to fame!
 * popey claps
<popey> +1
<SuperEngineer> thankyou folks
<TheOpenSourcerer> I still prefer Moondance though ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> **MOAR HOPS**
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: each to their own and none the worse for it - open source - open beer choice ;)
 * TheOpenSourcerer was due to be out making merry in Farnham this evening.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: liking your hops? I'm guessing you'd enjoy Hopping Mad
<TheOpenSourcerer> But we have postponed our activities so I will be popping into my local for a swift few fairly shortly.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Can't say I recall trying it but I probably have.
<diddledan> "free as in beer" discuss
 * diddledan fetches popcorn
<Laney> i hate it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm a big IPA fan. UK breweries make some fantastic IPAs around the 4.5% mark. Golden colour, not too sweet and loads of hops.
<Laney> everything should cost at least 100 quid
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: contact my brothers :) I'm sure they can find a way to get their "Dutch Pale Ale" to you :)
<diddledan> but. beer isn't usually free of cost, therefore using the term "free as in beer" to mean you don't pay anything is just wrong
<TheOpenSourcerer> All this talk of beer is not helping me write my project spec...
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you're supplying? :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/
<daftykins> diddledan: i'd hope talking about that topic is akin to preaching to the choir in here ;)
<bashrc> I'm not much of a beer drinker
<bashrc> I try not to drink and code
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: but that makes it so much more fun!
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: BROEDERS sounds alright. Ask them to send me a case FoC ;-)
<diddledan> it seems to be prevelant amongst forums to use the term free as in beer to mean gratis, and I just don't understand how somebody can get that end of the stick
<bashrc> I use the term "free as in beards"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: They'll be in the UK for some kind of beer festival in july or august, you can email them and ask if they can save one for you :)
<diddledan> women might object to that.. unless they really can muster a beard of their own
<bashrc> maybe so
<daftykins> they will in old age
<mgdm> Not really. Most women are beard-free.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Any opposite sex escort taken to an event in an effort to give a homosexaul person the apperance of being out on a date with a person of the opposite sex."
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: == beard
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks MartijnVdS I will. I'll explain you told me to ask them for some free beer and said it would be fine ;-)
<AlanBell> urban dictionary has a lot to answer for
<bashrc> In the past I did think of maybe making some beer brewing system using an Arduino, but then I thought that I'd only end up with an excess of beer.  It might make me more popular though :-)
<diddledan> popular is good, provided it's popular with the right kind of people
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ TheOpenSourcerer
<bashrc> My rate of beer consumption is not very fast.  I think I still have some bottles left over from months ago.
<diddledan> I had 4 bottles of beer for xmas. I've drunk 1
 * TheOpenSourcerer is not sure that an excess of beer is even possible.
<daftykins> bashrc: definitely best to be savoured than to be used to escape reality i'd say \o/
<bashrc> yes
<diddledan> I don't drink much. until my brother drags me out on the razzle and then I get completely plastered
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> just about finished setting up this new PC
<daftykins> itching to see how it performs
<bashrc> Is it a desktop?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EQeygsK.jpg
<bashrc> My desktops are pretty ancient by computer standards, although I have a new laptop
<daftykins> i7 3660K, 16GB DDR3 2133MHz, nvidia GTX 680 4GB, Samsung 256GB 840 Pro SSD, 2TB storage HDD
<daftykins> *3770K
<daftykins> putting it together for a friend :)
<daftykins> but i get to play with it in the meantime 8)
<bashrc> nice.  I think I may have the mobile version of that graphics card in the laptop.  Couldn't get it to work in 13.04 though
<daftykins> 680M? mmm perhaps they didn't have new enough drivers at the time
<bashrc> Yes I think that's it
<diddledan> 680M must be a beast for a loplop?
<daftykins> obviously it won't be quite like the desktop version :D
<daftykins> just the same number is all
<bashrc> Actually I think it's 630M
<diddledan> close 3 and 8 are very similar numbers when you screw your eyes up :-D
<bashrc> It doesn't help that it doesn't say what the graphics card is within the manual
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> are you at it now?
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: re " an excess of beer": Watneys! Excessive use of the word "beer" on their behalf!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh how ye mock. I grew up on Wantey's Party Sevens
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\Watney's
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: teenage party drink - great when severley shaken before opening!  :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep.
<SuperEngineer> [I even played that game myself]
<TheOpenSourcerer> We used to do that at Reading Rock festival  - shower the crowd in warm Watney's...
<SuperEngineer> best fun was when people boo'd at The Sensational Alex harvey Band - they got watney'd
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I was a young lad of course early 1980s
 * SuperEngineer fonly remembers Reading festival
<SuperEngineer> *fondly
<diddledan> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111403714821787277067/posts/3WALmWGcgT1
<diplo> Right suppose better go home, catch you all later
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep - time to head home via the pub for me too.
<daftykins> installing some benchmarks and eventually some games to test this PC at last
<daftykins> only getting 2MB/sec on Steam :(
<GentileBen> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/05/30/1520213/ubuntu-closes-longstanding-bug-1 lol
<GentileBen> "Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu fame has closed the primal bug on Launchpad, standing since 2004 and titled 'Microsoft has a majority market share,' due to the 'changing realities' of tablets, smartphones, and wearable computing."
<MartijnVdS> it's not even been 10 years!
<GentileBen> 9 years to close a bug on a FOSS project is pretty damn quick.
<bashrc> I don't think bug #1 is really fixed.  Walk into any store you like and look around.
<lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<popey> and you'll see non-windows machines
<popey> like android tablets and phones
<popey> â»
<GentileBen> "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix." rofl, the self-righteousness of this man astounds me.
<bashrc> Not if you want to buy a laptop
<GentileBen> If Ubuntu had 90% marketshare, would he purposefully give up share?
<GentileBen> I'd guess not.
<bashrc> For instance I recently got a laptop.  Did it come with GNU/Linux preinstalled?
<GentileBen> popey, Chromebooks have been a disaster.
<MartijnVdS> I like my chromebook
<GentileBen> bashrc: no, it came with GNU/Hurd.
<popey> they have?
<MartijnVdS> it lets me browse the web!
<GentileBen> popey, yes. The sales figures have been terrible.
<bashrc> Chance would be a fine thing
<bashrc> It came with Windows 8
<GentileBen> Free the Hurd!!
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: ...
<GentileBen> If we're going to go all-out FOSS Nazi, let's at least stand behind the daddy of the Free Software movement, RMS.
<SuperEngineer> confused - why is it from the Malaysia Loco - assume they posted it... but why ? Where they the first users?
<czajkowski> No  scott just edited the bug
<popey> no SuperEngineer
<GentileBen> I'd sooner trust a toejam-eating hobo than a South African ivory poacher.
<popey> wind your neck in a touch GentileBen
<bashrc> Even if you include Android, is it possible to buy any system which doesn't have proprietary software preinstalled - as per bug #1
<lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<GentileBen> Um, Android has plenty of proprietary bits as deployed in the real world.
<bashrc> yes
<GentileBen> Is the Play store app FOSS? Is the Gmail app FOSS? No.
<bashrc> exactly
<GentileBen> The platform is open-source in the sense that Google release the source several months after general availability...
<bashrc> So I don't think we can really declare #1 to be fixed
<GentileBen> But it's not managed as an open-source project.
<GentileBen> It's closed-source until Google decide to release the code to partners, and then several months later to the community.
<GentileBen> Which is a pretty good model - it's been wildly successful.
<bashrc> If you want to get code into Andoid and you're not a Google employee, good luck with that
<GentileBen> Android is high-quality, stable, and feature-rich.
<GentileBen> And it has an excellent app ecosystem...you click download, they install, and are ready to use.
<bashrc> I love Android.  But it's not a non-proprietary system, as per bug #1
<lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<GentileBen> bashrc, I'd say bug #0 should be the fact that there are people in the world who think closed-source is inherently inferior.
<lubotu3`> Error: Launchpad bug 0 could not be found
<GentileBen> We've seen time and time again how open-source projects crash and burn due to terrible project management, internal politics and lack of direction.
<bashrc> And no closed-source projects did that?
<GentileBen> OOo was a perfect example of that, though LO has picked up the torch.
<GentileBen> bashrc, the closed-source ones go out of business. The open-source ones have names like ReactOS.
<bashrc> I worked in proprietary software development for a *long* time.  There is no shortage of internal politics and terrible project management.
<GentileBen> bashrc, yes, but if you keep producing a poor product in the commercial world, your company eventually tanks.
<GentileBen> I still think the best model is open source but with a commercial backer.
<bashrc> Exhibit A: Microsoft Windows
<bashrc> (a consistently poor product)
<GentileBen> That's just trolling.
<diddledan> I'm actually quite enjoying running on windows 8
<bashrc> Windows ME anybody?
<bashrc> Vista?
<MartijnVdS> Windows YOU too!
<GentileBen> Are you forgetting the days not so long ago, when Linux couldn't even render a desktop environment on a third of PCs, due to lack of functional graphics drivers?
<GentileBen> It was literally CLI or nothing, and the zealots asked, "Who needs a DE? CLI all the way!!"
<bashrc> I remember the days.  Linux has come a long way.
<GentileBen> The fact is that since Microsoft unified their code under the NT kernel, Windows has been a consistently good product.
<GentileBen> The only dud from XP onwards was Vista.
<bashrc> I think that's debatable
<GentileBen> XP, 2003 (and its workstation variant XP x64), Server 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, 7, 8 have all been solid or better.
<bashrc> But the basic point is that a poor product doesn't nessessarily mean market relegation.  Much depends upon marketing.
<GentileBen> Well, let's be objective.
<GentileBen> Is there an office suite which even comes close to matching the functionality of MS Office?
<GentileBen> I'm not talking about Word and PowerPoint - I mean Outlook, Excel, Access, Visio, Project, InfoPath, OneNote.
<GentileBen> There isn't anything on the market which comes close to Visio which doesn't cost 10x as much.
<GentileBen> There's the irony - MS software is the cheap alternative in many cases.
<dwatkins> Didn't Microsoft buy Video?
<dwatkins> Visio, even
<GentileBen> Yeah.
<GentileBen> They bought most of their good products.
<GentileBen> Even Access and Excel, IIRC...
<dwatkins> I imagine that makes a lot of sense to solidify their position.
<GentileBen> All of System Center is based on software they bought 5-10 years ago.
<GentileBen> What MS are good at doing is buying an obscure product and making it better.
<diddledan> they also bought some duds, like foxpro
<dwatkins> I'm interested to see where they will go next, I can't see there's a lot of room for improvement in their OS.
<bashrc> heh
<GentileBen> Eg. System Center 2012 is amazing for the price - the equivalent stack from Symantec or IBM is literally 10-15x the cost.
<GentileBen> dwatkins, asking how Microsoft can improve Windows 8 is like asking how you can bowl better than a perfect game.
<diddledan> I've never had the chance to try system center
<GentileBen> You stray into some philosophical shit I can't even begin to claim to understand.
<dwatkins> indeed, although the start menu could do with some tweaking, imho
<bashrc> You're claiming that Windows 8 is the perfect OS?
<GentileBen> Well, Metro has been a disaster for desktop productivity.
<GentileBen> Not as much of a disaster as Unity, but still awful.
<dwatkins> anyway, my point is, within the realms of Windows, the latest version is pretty good for what it is, without a complete redesign I can't see MS justifying people buying new versions after this.
<GentileBen> (Unity is hands down the worst UX regression of the last 10 years, of any major software project).
<bashrc> Microsoft seem to justify new versions every 2-5 years
<dwatkins> e.g. you can't easily run an application remotely as far as I know in Windows, it's easy in UNIX environments, because X11 was written to expect that.
<GentileBen> dwatkins, isn't Ubuntu moving away from X11, lol?
<diddledan> until nothing runs on X11 anymore because we have mir and wayland backends
<dwatkins> GentileBen: no idea, I'm still on 11.04 ;)
<GentileBen> Despite precisely that argument from engineers?
<bashrc> Ubuntu is moving to Mir from X11
<diddledan> vnc on unity just fails abismally
<dwatkins> diddledan: I have another machine that runs 13.04, x11vnc seems fine... or do you mean the client?
<diddledan> no, I mean using the default applications, rather than scouring the repo to find the obscure x11vnc
<dwatkins> where might one find out about mir and get an idea of how it works and so on?
<diddledan> russia?
<dwatkins> diddledan: scouring? I just apt-get install it on most systems I use :)
<popey> #ubuntu-mir
<dwatkins> popey: I mean the documentation :)
<diddledan> that got destroyed after she burned up on re-entry
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir
<dwatkins> cheers
<dwatkins> I suspect one reason Windows didn't advance as fast as it might have was that it had to be backwards compatible a lot.
<bashrc> yes.  So for example the file system remains unchanged for approximately 15 years
<dwatkins> that's a legacy I can't see changing much
<dwatkins> the same is true for Linux in general, is it not?
<diddledan> windows hasn't "modernised" as fast as an open source platform because Microsoft has deals with Governments to not deprecate their tried-and-tested IE7
<bashrc> It has issues which cause the famous windows slow down
<diddledan> hell, even vmware insists on IE7 for it's web interface
<diddledan> try running vmware's web console thingy on IE10 in win8 and you're in for complete failure
<bashrc> When did anyone last defragment a hard drive on Linux?
<popey> i never have
<bashrc> exactly
<popey> although I do scrub my btrfs machine
<dwatkins> Do you still need to defrag partitions on Windows?
<popey> and rebalance now and then
<bashrc> As far as I'm aware NTFS is still NTFS, so yes.
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> just never on an SSD obviously
<daftykins> in fact Win7 and presumably 8 are bright enough to disable it on SSDs
<bashrc> One thing I notice about Windows 8 on the new laptop is that I didn't get a choice of browsers
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> not even 7 has the browser choice thing
<diddledan> microsoft got in trouble for win7 not doing the browser ballot. windows 8 does give you a choice, it's just very subtle about it
<bashrc> Maybe there was some well hidden checkbox that I missed
<SuperEngineer> hmm... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/mark-shuttleworth-gives-up-dream-of-ubuntu-toppling-windows/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29
<diddledan> well that's one take I guess
<SuperEngineer> that's a different take on a subject - don't they just love to be negative sometimes1
<diddledan> I think the opposing view, and the one that Mark was trying to convey, is that ubuntu already toppled windows in combination with the opensource community (with a hat-tip to android for it's teency role)
<daftykins> except he conveniently chose to compare mobile and desktop
<daftykins> which was a crock of s*** i'm afraid
<bashrc> In the mobile market Microsoft has never really had dominance
<diddledan> changing the subject completely, who fails to love these two pictures: http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/05/30/seductive-harley-quinn-cosplay-by-kitty-young-pics/ ?
<daftykins> possibly SFW depending on your boss
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I wasn't going to show the boss
<daftykins> why not :(
<daftykins> sharing is caring
<Darael> o/
<SuperEngineer> bbs
<Darael> I fail to love them.  My reaction's something of a "meh".  Not... quite... sure... why, but...
<bashrc> Also see http://unixporn.com/
<diddledan> aparently the cosplay community have been taking up arms. they're fed up of us men treating them as sex objects because their costumes are sexy
<bashrc> There was a recent FSF podcast about sexism in FOSS
<diddledan> o_O most of those pictures are of physical things and not X11 desktops. I feel dirty now
<bashrc> No idea why
<diddledan> http://unixporn.com/hate.html
<daftykins> pretty boring site
<SuperEngineer> interesting... in terminal, if IO press <shift>+either left or right, I get "C" or "D". If if I press <Ctrl C> it types it on screen instead of copying.  Where do I look for resolution, key-bindings? [or google!] :D
<diddledan> C and D come from the left and right arrow keys, and not because you also pressed shift. ctrl+c correctly sends the ^C character because you likely want to kill the currently running app with a sigterm. to copy and paster in a gui terminal application the usual keybindings are ctrl+shift+c
<SuperEngineer> e.g. shift ctrl-c to copy "boo" & then on pasting to next line "boo^C"
<SuperEngineer> ...makes no sense
<diddledan> no, you've done something wrong if you got that
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: agreed - but what... how's your telepathy?
<diddledan> highlight some text and press shift+ctrl+c will copy it - if there's a ^C character in the highlighted block then it will get copied also
 * SuperEngineer tries again
<diddledan> if I'm ever in doubt I use the middle-mouse-button clipboard
<diddledan> i.e. highlight text to copy. press middle mouse button to paste it
<diddledan> no other steps in between
<SuperEngineer> ...if I'm ever in doubt i restart terminal till it fixes itself... fixed.... but still curious
<diddledan> yey for the restart till it works mentality invented by Windows 3!
<SuperEngineer> +1
<diddledan> seriously. rarely should a restart be required - except in emacs because that's just evil
<SuperEngineer> except with a linux sys the app in question will do - not the whole darn system!
<diddledan> I've never worked out how to drive emacs
<diddledan> vi is easy in comparison for simple stuff
<SuperEngineer> ...& what's so wrong with closing & opening the ternal?
<diddledan> extra mouse milage?
<diddledan> do mice need a 5000mile service?
<daftykins> it's giving in! :D
 * SuperEngineer hands diddledan  a virtual new mouse
<daftykins> get an optical then you only need to clean the desk surface and the feet occasionally :>
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: it is *not* giving in - it's my life & time is more important!
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i don't really believe that, i'm just messing
 * popey hugs his new no-mouse policy
<popey> touchpoint integrated into keyboard and no mouse ftw
<SuperEngineer> p.s. daftykins you do not need to clean your feet to use your mouse - it has no opion re your personal hygene ;)
<daftykins> the Lenovo style trackpoint spots in the middle?
<bashrc> Question: does the calendar under the date link to any other programs?
<popey> yes
<bashrc> Evolution?
<popey> i have an external trackpoint lenovo keyboard on laptop and desktop
<daftykins> what a very curious approach
<SuperEngineer> popey: i *do not* have an external trackpoint lenovo keyboard on laptop and desktop - maybe you should send me yours so I can "test" them for you?
<popey> saves desk space
<popey> and i prefer trackpoint to mouse or trackpad
<popey> and means it's consistent layout from laptop to desktop
<popey> because the external keyboard is identical in layout to the internal keyboard
<daftykins> http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/lenovo_thinkpad_usb_trackpoint_keyboard-2.jpg
<daftykins> sorta ^?
<popey> exactly that but uk layout
<directhex> god i hate those things
<directhex> they're such dreadful keyboards
<directhex> the office loves them though. weirdos
 * popey shrugs
<daftykins> each to their own
<daftykins> a client has rollerball things on his
<daftykins> i can't stand them
<daftykins> so damned slow to do things
<popey> yeah, i hate those rollerball things
<popey> friend of mine has an upright one
<popey> very odd
<daftykins> have to keep moving your fingers back again and again to pan over big screens
<daftykins> that guy has a 30" too with a secondary to the side
<daftykins> feels like doing a finger marathon ;)
<daftykins> right time to cook something
<daftykins> just downloaded this free voucher game 'Metro Last Light' on this friends PC build
<daftykins> but i've got no sound hooked up to it so it's a bit quiet :D
<popey> heh
<mungbean> guys
<mungbean> got to tell you about a magic trick i just performed
<mungbean> you know we were talking about goo off earlier popey ?
<mungbean> i had the world most evil sticker residue
<popey> goo gone, yeah
<mungbean> i mixed olive oil + baking powder
<mungbean> put a teaspoon of it on a paper towel
<mungbean> and it just disappeared
<mungbean> no effort of elbow grease
<mungbean> magic
<popey> wow
<mungbean> how did i get this far in life without knowing this?
<mungbean> it struggled where the sticker was still on , but soaking would have removed the sticker (i scraped with fingernail instead)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that works :)
<mungbean> i'm sure it does :)
<mungbean> but i didn't have that in my cupboard
<mungbean> unsure whether to consider selling my star wars figures and ships
<mungbean> i have rare figures, boxed vehicles, the lot
<MartijnVdS> do you need the Â£?
<popey> every so often i ponder selling my JAMMA boards
 * MartijnVdS will soon have a PCI DVB-S2 card for sale
<MartijnVdS> (with full Linux/Ubuntu support out of the box)
<mungbean> i dopn't need the Â£ right now
<mungbean> wonder if demand may drop sometime thogh
<MartijnVdS> <- switching to a PCI-E card
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're making new films
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: more fans will be made
<mungbean> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=674288515931372&set=a.148195291874033.32306.148180005208895&type=1&theater
<mungbean> thats me
<MartijnVdS> but if (current_value > what you paid for it), you won't lose money (you might not make as much as you could have, but that's the risk)
<mungbean> i held on to stuff in the past that rose and fell
<mungbean> unsure where my transformers went
 * bigcalm prods mgdm
<mungbean> never saw them after my parents moved
<MartijnVdS> For everyone who wants some relaxing music for tonight: http://open.spotify.com/album/0VmzNuJ964FTXeM6EhTZVm
<matt_symes> /scripts/moc stop
<matt_symes> moc stop
<mgdm> bigcalm: hmmm?
<bigcalm> mgdm: ah, you're awake :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: was at LUG
<bigcalm> mgdm: was a question about parsing various data types, but I think I've done all I need to
<bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough :)
<mgdm> ah :)
<bigcalm> This is slightly annoying. MySQL is storing datetimes as BST while time() always returns UTC
<bigcalm> Makes comparing things go wrong
<daftykins> ooh btw
<diddledan> pull out UNIXTIMESTAMP(mysql_column_name)
<daftykins> that other island i was at on Monday, pints o' beer cost Â£2.30 over there - 'tis Â£3.50 usually here :(
<diddledan> then compare to date()
<bigcalm> Actually, it might be Doctrine that is being a bugger
<diddledan> meh, or whatever the php unixy format time function is
<mgdm> date('u')
<mgdm> I think? Might be '@'
<mgdm> I've been doing PHP for 10+ years and I have to look it up every time
<diddledan> I should know this. I do PHP dev for a living
<bigcalm> :)
<mgdm> date('U')
<daftykins> nn everyone
<bigcalm> My API has a Timestamp field which is epoc seconds and always in UTC (well should be). Storing in the database, I thought it would be good to have it as a proper DateTime column. Thinking it might be easier just to store the integer (or string)
<dwatkins> assuming a large enough number can be used, epoch time should be fine for any date, no?
<diddledan> mysql datetime columns are unix timestamps that mysql knows are unix timestamps and can therefore manipulate in date functions
<dwatkins> If you're using 32-bit code, you might find the app stops running in 2038, but by then it'll be someone else's problem.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: it's 64bit on 64bit servers
<dwatkins> bigcalm: you should be fine until we're a type-3 civilisation, then :)
<diddledan> type-3?
<dwatkins> "may also be able to tap into the energy released from the supermassive black holes which are believed to exist at the center of most galaxies"
<diddledan> aaah
<dwatkins> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Type.C2.A0III_civilization_methods
<bigcalm> A what?
<bigcalm> Right...
<bigcalm> Do I be cheeky and store the timestamp as a string rather than an integer? :D
<dwatkins> Using 64-bit numbers for epoch time will be fine for 293 billion years.
<bigcalm> Saves messing about in the database and PHP doesn't really care
 * bigcalm grumbles and uses a bigint instead
<bigcalm> Then again, there will still be conversion going on: http://docs.doctrine-project.org/en/2.0.x/reference/basic-mapping.html#doctrine-mapping-types
<diddledan> even type I civilisation is going to be way beyond my lifetime methinks
<lazarus_> hi
<bigcalm> Yay, unit testing goes green :D
<lazarus_> im trying to determine if its worth changing my router and i dont want to waste money to find out
<dwatkins> lazarus_: is there a problem with it?
<lazarus_> no just lookin into it to see if i'd gain anything isp told me i should be getting 5mbps i rarely hit 1mbps
<lazarus_> i get 600-780kbps
<dwatkins> lazarus_: I'd start by testing with several sites, of course
<dwatkins> BT reccomend using their own awfully written java-based test site
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-31
<redtap|away> popey, Could we possibly change the topic to discuss the implementation og bug #1 , today , please ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<redtap|away> mmm, strange, I was told it was fixed ?
<dwatkins> Phones aren't computers.
<redtape|renegade> troo.
<dwatkins> Well, strictly speaking they are, but they're not the same as a PC.
<redtape|renegade> Aparently , we are **years** away from being able to dock a phone/mobile with a TV too...
<redtape|renegade> Morning, TheOpenSourcerer
<dwatkins> I use my phone as a remote control for the TV, I don't want to have to dock it with the telly, that would mean I couldn't use it.
<redtape|renegade> how about a remote for yur remote ?
<dwatkins> yo dawg
<redtape|renegade> I'll never understand Mark's fascination with 'znet' .com at all.
<dwatkins> zdnet?
<redtape|renegade> yeah, did you read my link at 07:50 ?
<dwatkins> Yes, I'm reading it now.
<dwatkins> Hence my comment that a phone is not a computer :)
 * redtape|renegade secretly thinks mozilla phone will be more of a newb's hacking device ...
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems shows that MS has a desktop penetration of over 80%
<redtape|renegade> ... so he's deluded..    ,then.
<dwatkins> no, he's talking about different things at the same time.
<redtape|renegade> lik a politician talking stat's I guess ...
<redtape|renegade> **like ..
<dwatkins> as the zdnet article states, the more important war is between iOS and Android.
 * redtape|renegade notes the heoric *ethical* failure of Windoze phone.
<dwatkins> ethical?
<redtape|renegade> yeah, it's closed
<MartijnVdS> it kills your family
<dwatkins> so is iOS, does that make it bad?
<redtape|renegade> yep.
<dwatkins> I disagree. It's different, and perhaps not ideal, but I can see there being benefits to a closed platform.
 * redtape|renegade treates this youtuber about this , in his closing statements, as gospel , [a.outler] http://youtu.be/_4-Jr_HphWs?t=6m36s
<dwatkins> I don't treat the gospel as gospel ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> mornin y'all
<redtape|renegade> it's is in the 'Open Source' religion, but this is by the by..
<dwatkins> Looks like a nice piece of kit.
<dwatkins> I like the fact he starts taking out screws after having it switched on for a couple minutes.
<redtape|renegade> The dud's a legend in XDA communities ... what can I say ?
<redtape|renegade> Have you seen his ADK video ?
<dwatkins> noes
<redtape|renegade> **dude's a legend ...
 * redtape|renegade scans for video .. and follow up video ..
<dwatkins> What is ADK in this context?
<diplo> He posts a fair bit on G+ as well
<redtape|renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1PCFE1LlC4
<dwatkins> cheers
<redtape|renegade> ^ .. very telling, and no you cant get one anymore ..
<dwatkins> I see your point ("If you can't do with it as you choose, it's not yours") but at the same time, I can see there are security risks to a completely open platform.
<dwatkins> Perhaps I'm wrong, but things like app signing require a closed platform as far as I know.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the OS on a very closed "secure boot" device can have security flaws as well
<redtape|renegade> Here's the original, while you attempt yur breakfast , but watch the follow up first .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdglKxxXO8M
<dwatkins> yeah, any OS can have flaws, I accept that.
<dwatkins> I had breakfast at 6:45, redtape|renegade ;)
<redtape|renegade> trÃ© bien. ... Conitnental, I hope ?
<dwatkins> you hope? ;) I had bacon and eggs.
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<redtape|renegade> o/ hi popey, Dunno if you saw my message earlier ?
<popey> people can discuss that, sure.
<popey> don't think it needs to go in the topic tho
 * redtape|renegade feels ever disappointed.
<dwatkins> We've been discussing it, redtape|renegade ;)
<redtape|renegade> I know, that's what makes it topic-able..
<redtape|renegade> I mean, everyone's joining now .. to see wat the last nights news of this is all about .. Why should the podcast get all the fun ..
<popey> no, we don't set the /topic based on what people are talking about, never have
<popey> it's for channel announcements, not for "What shall we talk about today"
<popey> if we did, then it would change many times a day
<redtape|renegade> oh ok . redtape slaps his wrist .. ouch.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> Gah !
<knightwise> gpodder is giving me shitty errors about local settings not supported
<SuperMatt> knightwise: no swearing!
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/E54zfEbj
<knightwise> "Gah" is a Klingon dish .. its not a swearword
<bigcalm> knightwise: your 2nd line contained swearing, please try not to do it again
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's "Gagh"
<mungbean> i think they mean the line after gah :P
<popey> meh
<shrik> morning all
<bigcalm> I stopped working at 2am this morning. I wonder if I'm over doing it again
<MartijnVdS> working?
<MartijnVdS> Ooh! Just got a "Price alert" email
<knightwise> Sorry , bigcalm i shall refrain from stating excrental statements
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: you are also correct
<MartijnVdS> A Dutch web shop has a price for Haswell 4770K
<MartijnVdS> (it's â¬348,90) - http://afuture.nl/productview.php?productID=1002479
<redtape|renegade> opening...
<redtape|renegade> i see no picture .. (??)
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: not allowed yet (embargo/nda)
<redtape|renegade> ahh
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: This webshop is very much automated, it's a front-end to their suppliers' inventory systems, basically
<shrik> anyone use Firefox's dev tools with any regularity?
<mungbean> didn't feel like a chump riding a kick scooter to work today. felt aswesome actually
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<shrik> morning brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: keep telling yourself that :P
<brobostigon> morning shrik
<mungbean> yeah MartijnVdS , its hard being awesome
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy World No Tobacco Day! :-D
<mungbean> a world with no tobacco...ahhhh
 * popey lights up
<mungbean> that would be nice
<MooDoo> hello all
<mungbean> hayfever + cigarette smoke = intense irritation
<MartijnVdS> \o/ no tobacco day
<brobostigon> unlikely to happen here, but one an try nonetheless.
<brobostigon> can*
<dwatkins> we barely need one here, it's so windy in Scotland you can't tell when someone's smoking near by ;) also, it's banned in-doors, obv.
 * brobostigon puts SG sg1 on, and hums the theme tune.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: excellent choice, I've been re-watching it recently, am up to season 6, the Jonas year
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i like the ones where daniel is ascended.
<dwatkins> yeah, although it's a shame he can't break the rules it's fun to see him as not really there
<brobostigon> very true.
<MartijnVdS> I liked the movie, but the not the TV show
<MartijnVdS> too soapy
<dwatkins> I see what you mean, MartijnVdS - there were aspects of that, but it was just enough sci-fi, and well, Amanda Tapping <3 :D
<brobostigon> which film? there are three if memory serves.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111282/
<dwatkins> hehe
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the first one, :)
<mungbean> we need imdbbot
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the original!
<dwatkins> that's a silly movie poster - they didn't get stargates that big until at least season 9...
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<dwatkins> ...and even then, they were spacegates, not ones you'd land on a planet.
 * mungbean doesn't think he fits the techie stereotype
<mungbean> the techie non trekkie
<brobostigon> dwatkins: very true.
<dwatkins> I'm not too bothered about Star Trek any more, I've come to the conclusion that it promotes stereotypes and is rather shallow.
<diplo> Anyone here use Redmine with the PPA on 12.04 ?
<diplo> default ones on very old in the repos
 * awilkins raises hand about Redmine
<awilkins> Want my bulletproof Redmine wiki page for installing Redmine on 12.04 ?
<awilkins> Have worked a little with Ondrej Sury and his PPA is now more stable and he has an experimental one for breaking packages in
<DJones> Heh, don't you love words kids make up https://twitter.com/BBCNewsMagazine/status/340393025664606208 These kids must have seen RMS at some point in their lives
<mungbean> is the redmien vulnerable?
<awilkins> That's a nice shot of Emma Watson getting a wand at Disney World :-)
<diplo> awilkins: That's the one I looked at Ondrej's, never tried it before
<diplo> Please, would be very interested
<mungbean> i heard about a rails botnet issue
<diplo> mungbean: Dunno, but it's only for internal use anyhoo for us
<awilkins> diplo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5719307/
<awilkins> diplo, Naked Ubuntu Server VM to working Redmine server in 10 mins
<brobostigon> arghhhh, a dumb fly just tried to share my coffee. :(
<diplo> Top man, thank you
<diplo> Will set up a naked vm now to test :)
<awilkins> The mail watcher plugin is just something we do
<awilkins> Don't install it without changing the email addresses or your redmine will start spamming all my managers
<awilkins> (well, probably not)
<diplo> heh, will read through it carefully :)
<diplo> Do you integrate with ldap at all, not read through it yet
<mungbean> i use with ldap
<awilkins> diplo, Yup, we're using the LDAP / Active directory integration
<diplo> ooh, LDAP is on my list of learning as well, so will be handy.. great thanks
<awilkins> Although I've been trying to make progress on an OpenID Provider that justs uses NTLM / SSPI so we can just auth *everything* automagically
<awilkins> Think we have one in the early alpha stages ; on paper it's not hard, you just need an OpenID provider that trusts Apache auth, and an Apache auth module that does NTLM / SSPI
<awilkins> The main PITA is that the only reliable one we can find is mod_auth_sspi and that only runs on Windows server
<awilkins> Not so far managed to set up mod_auth_kerb properly
<diplo> oh, I've not got that far.. basically trying to sort a lot of issues at my work place, including information
<diplo> All little projects that I hope to integrate together whilst learning
<awilkins> The hardest part is getting buy-in from the people
<awilkins> Not everyone takes to wiki pages like a duck to water
<awilkins> Especially if you have a lot of SharePoint already
<JamesTait> awilkins, amen to that!
<awilkins> SharePoint lets them continue to get their digital document crackfix of passing information around as Office docs
<diplo> We had sharepoint at my last place, I was in charge of it, it sucked and nobody really used it, glad I'm away from it now
<awilkins> The best success I've had is with a team for who I wrote tools - and they write their own manuals as wiki pages, because they can't understand them when I write them :-)
<awilkins> Once they're in the habit, that's it, they still tweak them even though the tools have been stable for years
<diplo> Well our bug tracker is internal atm, and only now works in Firefox as it was written years ago, can't modify stuff with chrome etc as the code is awful
<diplo> tried fixing it but failed so far
<awilkins> I find people who roll their own trackers perplexing - we have several of these things
<awilkins> I just shake my head and go "But... that's just a bug tracker with <insert  custom workflow here> - why don't you just trash it and replace it with something that has a community..."
<awilkins> diplo, If you have the kind of userbase who loves custom workflows, I have some code for turning Dia diagrams into workflow table rows for Redmine
<diplo> Exactly, it's where I'm trying to push us now
<diplo> Umm they don't have any idea of what to do at the moment, very disorganised small company
<awilkins> I should upload it the main project but it's 1) Java 2) involves shell script too 3) not polished
<awilkins> I suggest you keep it as simple as possible
<awilkins> Don't let them get into month long meetings about what workflow is appropriate
<diplo> yeah, base install.. play.. see what bosses think
<diplo> And then go from there
<awilkins> Use what comes in the box and fix it if that doesn't work for you
<awilkins> Also have the "Redmine Backlogs" plugins going if you want to do Scrum / Agile
<awilkins> There's another page for that
<diplo> mini.iso - stuck at checking ubuntu archive :(
<diplo> wonder if nat isn't getting correct details
<diplo> Yep, working fine now - bah
<NET||abuse> i really do get myself muddled when merging conflicts from svn in a git svn cloned working copy
<NET||abuse> had to re svn rebase 3 times to catch i wasn't pulling the changes from my copy into the working copy and only updating the changes back from svn, overriting my own work?
<NET||abuse> grrrrr
<NET||abuse> meld helps
<davmor2_> Morning all
<brobostigon> can someone clarify something, what does it mean when described as, (apache with "Options All") ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/core.html#options :)
<diplo> Allows things like indexing etc
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "All" means that all of the listed options are enabled
<diplo> Or follow MartijnVdS link :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, thank you.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and this applies to httpd.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it works everywhere, look at the "Context" bit in the box
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: server config, virtual host, directory, .htaccess
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's related to "AllowOverride"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you put "Options None" in httpd.conf, along with "AllowOverride None", you can add it to .htaccess but it won't work
<MartijnVdS> but if you said "AllowOverride Options=ExecCGI,Indexes" you can change only those 2 options in the htaccess
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i think i understand,
<MartijnVdS> apache config is easy, once you learn how to read the docs.. it's just a "trick"
<brobostigon> yes, i can iamgine, whats the word, cryptic.
<diplo> awilkins: Great, installed and working.. will take a copy of the vm and have a tinker now
<diplo> Thanks again
<awilkins> diplo, You're welcome, if you want the redmine_backlogs plugin install as well, let me know
<diplo> Will do, I'll look it up shortly, going to have a good play first
<directhex> redmine is great-ish
<diplo> You use it at collab directhex ?
<awilkins> CollabNet?
<awilkins> Don't CollabNet use their own forge software?
<awilkins> The downside of Redmine for me is that it's written in Ruby
<diplo> Can't remember who directhex works for, no it begins with a C :D
<diplo> yeah, same here, not a great fan
<mgdm> Collabora
<diplo> Looks nice though
<diplo> Was close :)
<awilkins> Yes, very pretty, lots of good features, active, plugins
<awilkins> But I learned Ruby because we picked it up
<awilkins> And I think Ruby is horrible
<awilkins> It's sooo not Python
<awilkins> Python feels consistent and makes sense (to me)
<diplo> I'm just getting into python in a bigger way, never touched ruby, watched a few vids on it and that's about it
<awilkins> Ruby seems to be this big conflicting ball of styles and doesn't make intuitive sense
<awilkins> Like - all things in Ruby are objects. Even integers.
<awilkins> The id values for integers in Ruby... are not the integers they represent.
<awilkins> >-<
<awilkins> And all manner of weird operators and stuff
<diplo> heh, sounds like I'll be having some fun then(not)
<awilkins> To familiarize self, did the "Ruby Koans"
<diplo> Biggest thing for me, is whether I can import data from our current tracker into redmine in some way
<awilkins> diplo, What's current tracker?
<awilkins> I have some code that works OK for bugzilla
<directhex> redmine is fine, but because it's ruby it's hyper-fragile as far as version numbers go (making distro upgrades hell) and you can't export data between redmine installs easily
<diplo> In house built one awilkins, it's really really really bad :)
<awilkins> Yeah, that's the other thing I hate about Ruby
<awilkins> Debian hates things that have their own package management
<awilkins> But Debian coverage of Ruby packages is really patchy
<mgdm> The thing I mostly dislike about ruby is that version 1.9.3pN can have a vastly different set of bugs from 1.9.3pN+1
<awilkins> Most of the stuff in Ondrej Sury's PPA is ruby packages
<directhex> awilkins, that's a ruby design issue, and it's intentional
<directhex> awilkins, ruby is not from a school of thought that says a sysadmin installs a thing and it works for years. it's from the "devops" school of thought there a developer managed to make a thing work on his crufty laptop, so you put the crufty laptop into production
<directhex> ruby was nearly pulled from debian.
<mgdm> Oh, I didn't know that
<MartijnVdS> because of the gem madness?
<awilkins> Yeah, gem madness is horrid
<MartijnVdS> it's a bit like egg madness..
<MartijnVdS> (or CPAN madness)
<awilkins> My redmine_backlogs install procedure involves installing gems.. then manually uninstalling one
<directhex> like most half-baked languages, the concept of ABI/API stability doesn't exist, and the upstreams don't care about breaking things
<MartijnVdS> and s/egg/pypi/
<awilkins> And then screwing with the Gemfile.lock
<directhex> it doesn't matter, in theory, because it's okay to have 300 different incompatible versions of the same gem, so each app has the only version it works with installed alongside
<directhex> debian angers ruby upstreams with its "one version of the lib, fix your freaking app" attitude
<MartijnVdS> directhex: like bundling the JVM with your java app!
<mgdm> I had an entertaining dependency graph recently where something depended on v2.1 of a lib, but then something else it depended on depended on v3.0 of a lib, and of course they were incompatible
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes. or at least bundling a dozen jars which represent the only tested/working versions of your app's libs
<awilkins> I don't mind that too much, but in practise the app maintainers don't have a conservative attitude to version numbers
<awilkins> e.g. redmine_backlogs doesn't say "we've only tested up to this version of rake, so we'll stick with versions we've tested"
<awilkins> It says "want rake". Rake 1.5.2 breaks it.
<awilkins> Well, breaks something
<directhex> 1.5.1 is fine?
<awilkins> Not sure.
<awilkins> Had rake from Ondrej's packages already
<directhex> minor version numbers should never break anything
<awilkins> So just uninstalled the one that gem installas
<awilkins> Everything works fine, you just have to tinker with the bundle manifest it builds so it's not convinced it should still have rake 1.5.2
<awilkins> Which is Evil and Wrong but practical
<diplo> heh, you guys are talking me out of using this :D
<awilkins> That's for a non-packaged plugin
<awilkins> INstalled by checking out a git tree
<awilkins> Only a problem if you sign up for it
<diplo> So stay clean install as much as possible and it should just work ?
<awilkins> Well, as you get from my install procedure, it's not just "apt-get install" and go, but the current PPA is pretty stable
<awilkins> And I always test new things in a VM
<awilkins> Snapshot the live DB to it and make sure there are no wrinkles at least twice
<awilkins> Write a wiki page as I go
<BigRedS> directhex: that doesn't hold in the land of the ruby
<directhex> BigRedS, i know. 1.9 -> 1.9.1 was a huge jump which broke the world
<MartijnVdS> yay minor version bumps
<bigcalm> I think somebody missed the point of minor version numbers
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the point of a point release!
<christel> i am going on the watercress line tomorrow bigcalm!
<MartijnVdS> (isitfriday.net)
<christel> ... with my son... to meet peppa pig :/
<bigcalm> chrisccoulson: :O lucky lady!
<davmor2> christel: not that same a rat then?
<bigcalm> christel: get Peppa Pig drunk
<mgdm> hahaha
<christel> davmor2: indeed not! :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: is that not then a ratty train
<christel> besides the RAT and the dining train they do peppa pig events and thomas the tank engine events!
<christel> and apparently peppa pig is awesome so we must go...
<directhex> peppa pig is a big old for my son
<directhex> we're still on cbeebies shows
<directhex> like the lingo show!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show)
<directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/lingo-show/songs/lingo-show-blodwen-hello/
<MartijnVdS> Oh no!
<MartijnVdS> You can't see this content.
<awilkins> Poxy geographic location sillyness
<awilkins> Does content cost more when you share it around? No. Imagine if America had a federal TV agency like the BBC...
<awilkins> Given they have 6 times the population
<awilkins> That would be 6 times as much awesome content ...
<awilkins> (and 6 times as much reality TV rubbish, but hey)
<directhex> they already have amazing shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo
<directhex> and we have BAFTA-award winning shows from private companies here, like Made In Chelsea!
<directhex> (kill me now)
<awilkins> The commercial broadcasters have to raise their game in the UK because of the BBC though
<awilkins> If you got rid of it, EVERYTHING would be Honey Boo Boo
<awilkins> I've seen American TV. It's a scary place.
<awilkins> Although I like the whole IP broadcasters making their own content trend
<awilkins> Not sure about Arrested Development but I liked their take on House of Cards. Wish they would show the other 2 series of the UK one though.
<Myrtti> UK benefits so much from having a public broadcasting company that a) broadcasts to a big domestic audience b) broadcasts in languages widely adopted in the world c) has great personalities and professionals doing the said broadcasts
 * Myrtti pokes Finnish YLE with a stick
<popey> https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532 reads like something ali1234 might write â»
<diplo> labels = incompetence :) and ref ali, wouldn't be that many lol's in there ?
<diplo> :)
<redtape|renegade> OT | then there's the afternoons ..
<redtape|renegade> ~I've had a talk with the locals on I.o.Man and *they* don't think Bug #1 should be closed | and the instigator 'lives here' | because you can't buy an Ubuntu computer laptop or desktop anywhere locally. Only a chromebook at around Â£250 .. infact most of them think this mobile thing is the wrong way to go as you can't do much programming on a mobile. The Ubuntu-ists are revolting...
<diddledan> tell them to shower then :-p
<popey> they are?
<popey> seems to me its the peanut gallery that's revolting
<redtape|renegade> ~ Wat together.. this ain't rugby.
<redtape|renegade> Prob.ly just down to the fact Curry's (which has put 2 shops so far , outta business) , run  by the Retail-Mafia : have no idea what Ubuntu is !! .. go on give them a call .. http://t.co/v5yt7TUlnn ::: Rant -over.
<mungbean> :-|
 * popey shrugs
<popey> this is hardly news, that you can't buy a pc running ubuntu in a shop
<redtape|renegade> nationally ?
<popey> also note the mobile strategy Ubuntu has is in addition to desktop
<popey> not instead of
<popey> internationally
<popey> there's hundreds of stores in which you _can_ buy Ubuntu laptops
<popey> but they're not in the countries where the noisiest complaints come from
<popey> (Europe and USA)
<dwatkins> So you want us to call up Curry's for Â£1 a minute to tell them that they don't know what something is that they don't know about, redtape|renegade?
<czajkowski> You cna buy one from dell.ie
<redtape|renegade> dwatkins: I've already done it .. They haven't a clue what Ubuntu is ..
<dwatkins> redtape|renegade: and this surprises you why? ;)
 * redtape|renegade does his daily email check to see what can be bought ethically running 'Ubuntu' on the net ..
<DJones> The best publicity is word of mouth, Ubuntu and Linux generally have great support networks and word of mouth does work, retail stores are there to make a profit, so for them, any Linux derivative doesn't make sense
<dwatkins> also, they probably get kickbacks for selling Windows
<redtape|renegade> dwatkins: Because the bug says that you can buy it in a local shop .. or at least that's how I read it ...
<dwatkins> redtape|renegade: bug #1 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<DJones> I wonder why bug 1 is flagged as Malaysia Loci team
<popey> where does it say that redtape|renegade ?
<DJones> loco*
<popey> just the first one lp api picks
<popey> it's tagged as affecting lots of projects
<DJones> Good answer
<diddledan> what's a direct-lit lcd panel?
<DJones> I thought it was because we use lubotu* rather than Ubottu
<diddledan> argos just emailed me and they're touting "Direct-lit LED TV"
<DJones> diddledan: http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1000565-difference-side-lit-led-versus-direct-led-pay-attention-when-buying.html
<diddledan> thanks DJones
<DJones> Sounds like the positioning of the LED's, direct is behind the screen, side lit is around the edges
<redtape|renegade> Those running Ubuntu :-Laptops: 187 laptops , Desktops: 193 desktops, as opposed to those running windoze .. 42,598  ... there's the math anyway ..
<mungbean> bore
<diddledan> redtape|renegade: where are those figures from?
<diddledan> I wonder if there's really that many windows machines worldwide
<redtape|renegade> ebay.co.uk
<mungbean> lol
<redtape|renegade> i could use ebay.im , but that costs Â£90K  .. reesign.
<popey> people seem to be misinterpreting that bug completely.
<popey> mainly because it means different things to different people
<popey> so closing it has wildly different meanings
<DJones> Its not surprising, to the end user, windows is distributed free for people buying a computer, probably 999/1000 users will stick with whats already there
<redtape|renegade> I'll justget my coat ...
<popey> oh jeez
<diddledan> well that's an overreaction
<DJones> Damm, Davros with David Tennant still looks the same as he did in the 1970's
<diddledan> DJones: he hasn't aged well then? :-p
<popey> he ragequits all the time
<popey> it's incredibly tiresome
<DJones> diddledan: That would be about right
<mungbean> politics is dull innit
<popey> given he wanted me to change the /topic and talk about it all day, then when we do he quits, pretty stupid
<xnox> popey: so the wimesweeper - how do I run it on my nexus7? do I need raring or saucy install?
<mungbean> there's always reddit to discuss that stuff
<mungbean> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> we need a OSS-politics
<popey> xnox: raring
<xnox> popey: ack.
<popey> add the ppa and it's minesweeper-touch
<popey> or just install touch-collection to get them all
<popey> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper/view/head:/add_apps.sh
<redtape|renegade> popey, I know I was wrong but I'm still grumpy that I can't buy an Ubuntu desktop here :: https://pod.orkz.net/uploads/images/scaled_full_b98535f1d2a396706e91.jpg
<czajkowski> does he just join make a comment and leave?
<popey> frequently
<czajkowski> wow
<tripleclones> Hi can anyone help with a blank screen on boot? close and open lid resolves it
<tripleclones> 13.04 on Lenovo X60 with intel 945
<tripleclones> only thing I have found is a kernel 3.9 but isn't from ubuntu repo so don't really want to go with it yet
<popey> it's fixed in 3.9?
<tripleclones> assuming so reading this
<tripleclones> http://askubuntu.com/questions/291023/black-screen-after-update-to-13-04-hp-530-solution-available
<popey> oof, i wouldn't install a kernel from that site either
<tripleclones> thats what I was thinking
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.9-raring/ however is safe
<popey> maintained by the kernel team
<tripleclones> brilliant thank you - I'll try it :)
<popey> worth a punt to see if that fixes it, if it does then I'd file a bug against the kernel with "ubuntu-bug linux" and then let them know which kernel works and which doesn't
<popey> and then you can figure out which commit actually broke it
<popey> and they may be able to backport a fix to 3.8
<shauno> wow, those askubuntu answers are all kinds of scary.  "here, grab a kernel from someone's dropbox" is nope.jpg
<popey> that file isnt even there
<popey> haha, its a shell script
<popey> which pulls from....
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.9-raring/
<diddledan> yeah
<popey> â»
<diddledan> FRIDAY FTW
<diddledan> ahem
<diddledan> scuse me
<diddledan> don't you dare tell me I'm on the wrong day
<brobostigon> its saturday, sorry man.
<directhex> gotta get down on friday.
<directhex> it's the law.
<diddledan> according to beccy black, anyway
<diddledan> just in case anybody forgot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
<diddledan> and now I switch to my home pc
<tripleclones> popey that fixed it - is there how to filing bugs I can read somewhere?
<diddledan> tripleclones: run in a terminal the command `ubuntu-bug linux`
<tripleclones> cool - been using ubuntu 5.04 and haven't had to report one before
<MartijnVdS> To quote Neo: "Whoa"
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/asus-brings-4k-to-your-desktop-with-massive-31-5-3840x2160-monitor/
<tripleclones> using ubuntu since 5.04!
<MartijnVdS> tripleclones: 5.06, the second "hog" release ;)
<diddledan> that will collect a load of information relevant to the package "linux" and post it all to launchpad.net for you - it will open a new browser for you to add some information about why you're reporting the bug
<MartijnVdS> tripleclones: (hoary hedgehog?)
<tripleclones> MartijnVds I still have the shipit CD - is it worth anything ;)
<MartijnVdS> tripleclones: ask AlanBell, he uses them for his chickens :)
<diddledan> he feeds chickens old linux cds?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I think so.. but I'm no chicken expert
<tripleclones> I guess I've just been lucky always running older hardware
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for Haswell
<MartijnVdS> Should be out by next week
<tripleclones> but that changes soon - got a lenovo X1 coming, will be fun getting ubuntu on that
<diddledan> haswell is the new intel?
 * diddledan googles
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it is
<diddledan> looks like they're unifying under one aarchitecture for end-to-end?
<diddledan> from 10W up to desktop
<diddledan> desktop I guess is 100's of WAtts
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they still have atoms
<diddledan> aah
<MartijnVdS> desktop "TDP" (thermal design power) is 85W or something
<MartijnVdS> laptop TDP is a lot lower, and they have better sleep states now
<MartijnVdS> and they're expecting "Haswell-E" later this year ("extreme edition" with even more power)
<tripleclones> Bug 59161 my first known reported bug :)
<lubotu3> bug 59161 in Ubuntu CD Images "knot 2 page empty" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59161
<tripleclones> thats in bugzilla.kernel.org though
<awilkins> ââ­â®ââ
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: happy unicode :)
<diddledan> why did I just sit through an _entire_ episode of eastenders?!
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<brobostigon> diddledan: are you drunk?
<diddledan> I wish
<diddledan> my sky box is on the blink tho
<brobostigon> :(
<diddledan> they are supposed to have fixed it
<brobostigon> two only valid excuses for watching eastenders, either being high or drunk, or GF/wife is being very insistant.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or you were channel surfing, and got distracted by something else
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and Eastenders came on while you were away
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, or that.
<popey> or of course your BF/husband is being very insistant
<MartijnVdS> popey: let's use "SO"
<MartijnVdS> that's a lot shorter than "GF/BF/wife/husband"
<popey> I don't particularly like SO
<popey> well, true
<popey> "bird"
<diddledan> "bi**h"?
<diddledan> that works for either sex
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: birÃ°
<popey> I call wifey "bird" and she calls referrs to me as "the bird" when talking to her girlie mates
<popey> my brother watches eastenders, his husband does not
<popey> i think hubby plays games on facebook while ee is on
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> the problem is I could easily become addicted to ee
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> Ooh.. overclocking competition (+ master class) where you can win Haswell hardware
<MartijnVdS> *enters competition*
<popey> nice idea
<MartijnVdS> .. at least I have something to do on Sunday
<mungbean> eastenders is depression in visual/aural form
<popey> hah
<mungbean> see enough depressing chavs and unpleasant violent/agreesive people on my daily commute, why would i invite them into my lounge?
<mungbean> just realised my tv box is full because of all the shaun the sheep episodes
<MartijnVdS> heh :)
<mungbean> childs folder 60GB, wifes folder 100gb, me 20GB
<mungbean> although 35gb of the wifes is dr who
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Doctor
<mungbean> there seems to be a tom baker series in there too
<MartijnVdS> old Who? they're rerunning those?
<mungbean> hand of fear
<mungbean> i think they played it when someone died
<mungbean> sarah jane
<MartijnVdS> ah, that's been a while
<diddledan> wasn't she spider man's missus, too?
<mungbean> mary jane
<diddledan> aah
<mungbean> which is also a drug slang too
<diddledan> for?
<mungbean> cocaine
<diddledan> (I need to know these drug terms for when I try to "score" (that's the right term, yes?))
<mungbean> only if you're in a 70s US movie
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: marihuana ("Mari Huana" -> mary jane)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: i.e. weed
<mungbean> woops
<mungbean> ur right
<MartijnVdS> <- Dutch :P
<mungbean> i never bothered to find out
<diddledan> does being dutch give you a propensity to knowing these things?
<mungbean> the internet is too easy to find things now. i preferred when childhoods were full of misinformation
<brobostigon> mungbean: like girls having cooties ?
<diddledan> encyclopedia dramatica
<diddledan> full of plenty of misinformation
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, people come here to buy the stuff
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Never used it myself, but the Netherlands has a reputation
<shauno> don't be silly, we come for the .. err .. rijksmuseum .. and .. uhm .. tulips?
<mungbean> i never even tried a cigarette
<mungbean> seems illogical to me
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: neither have I.. my parents smoke (my dad finally quit a few years ago) and that made me never want to try it
<mungbean> my reason was simply that peer pressure doesn't work that way on me
<MartijnVdS> that helped too
<MartijnVdS> also, not having lots of peers to pressure me :(
<mungbean> awww
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I got better ;)
<mungbean> are you INTJ ?
<mungbean> myers briggs personality type
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: last time I checked, yes.. with the J being close to P in some tests
<mungbean> relatively rare in outside world, high in IT and irc :P
<MartijnVdS> IRCJ 8-)
<mungbean> the peer pressure thing gives it away
<mungbean> never persuaded to do something u don't wanan do
<shauno> baffled with this one.  irssi just keeps freezing.  ssh is still up fine because I screen is responsive, but irssi isn't.  where do I even start?
<mungbean> try weechat?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Ctrl+Q :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: vs Ctrl+S (xon/xoff)
<mungbean> i've had irssi freeze about 3 times in 6 months
<mungbean> how often does it freeze?
<shauno> fairly sure I'm not hitting ^S to stop it
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Ctrl+A s ?
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> (or whatever your screen escape key is)
<shauno> at the moment, it'll unstick for 10-15 seconds, and then go back to being unresponsive for a minute or two
<MartijnVdS> shauno: anything in top? iotop?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: strace?
<diddledan> shauno: you need a dedicated server - your host is being battered by someone n0rty
<diddledan> vps ftl
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: my VPS works fine though
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: no weird hangs
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Bytemark BigV++
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: all your fellow residents are friendly :-p
<mungbean> which distro?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Ubuntu?
<mungbean> how bout shauno ?
<shauno> hm, next to nothing  (and iotop installed with no hesitation, so I'm not hanging on writes)
<shauno> oh, and tried ^Q, no budge
<shauno> 10.04
<MartijnVdS> shauno: strace?
<mungbean> worth trying weechat for similar issues then
<MartijnVdS> Y U NO 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> Overclockers are weird.. there's a group of "Underclockers" as well:
<mungbean> for power saving?
<diddledan> wtf?
<MartijnVdS> "7.07MHz on Intel Pentium Overdrive"
<MartijnVdS> http://www.teamgroup.com.tw/catalog/detail/data/en/29/750/pkshJp.html
<mungbean> for the lol? or practical reason
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: mostly for the LOL, I think
<MartijnVdS> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/173809-28-running-windows
<mungbean> http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-02-16/1234759607134.jpg
<shauno> because I'm lazy, and still haven't decided if I want to retreat to debian
<shauno> hmm, strace is looking interesting
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what's it doing?
<mungbean> probably runs like my eee pc
<shauno> I think it's the script that forwards notifications to my desktop :/  there's a connect to the right IP, a write, and then a read(30,<big pause>
<mungbean> which script are you using for that?
<mungbean> i was gonna try it
<mungbean> sending remote osd?
<shauno> prowl .. same idea, but sending to growl (laptop's a mac)
<mungbean> ah
<MartijnVdS> firewallz?
<mungbean> different one
<MartijnVdS> you could do it through an ssh tunnel. If the tunnel is down, you'll at least get a quick response (Connection refused/reset by peer)
<mungbean> was thinking of this https://code.google.com/p/irssi-libnotify/
<shauno> well that's annoying .. it's been working for a year or three :/
<shauno> but explains why it was driving me crazy.  the more people reply to me, the less responsive irssi was
<mungbean> watching the extreme barbie jeep racing vid
<mungbean> reminds me of uni days
<mungbean> riding a traffic cone down a fligt of stairs
<diddledan> shauno:
<mungbean> first day to myself tomorrow since baby was born \o/
<diddledan> shauno:
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> mungbean: what's the plan?
<mungbean> its gonna be sunny but i will be indoors doing airbrushing
<shauno> sleep?
<diddledan> no, sleep is for when you're in charge of the baby
<mungbean> got a spitfire and p51d mustang to get on with
<diddledan> just let it cry to sleep
<mungbean> she is cryingf now
<mungbean> will wake wifey upo
<diddledan> bless
<mungbean> need toi walk around a bit
<mungbean> i cant trick baby into thinking i am walking
<popey> i use the android irssi notify thing
<popey> works brilliantly
<DJones> popey: Do you get errors if your don't have an active screen session connected to irssi
<popey> dunno, i never dont have an active screen/irssi connection
<DJones> Hmmh, when I disconnect from screen, irssinotifier will give me errors on the android device
<popey> i dont get that
<DJones> Not too worried about it, if I'm not connected, I'm not in a position to do anything that hilight's me anyway
<mungbean> sampling a vockburns fine tawny
<mungbean> vo/co
<popey> i discovered Pedro XimÃ©nez in spain where Port isn't popular
<diddledan> ok, as a learned person (sorta) who understands that the chances of winning something like the lottery are worse than that of dieing horribly. why do I still insist on playing the thing?
<DJones> diddledan: Fear.... The fear of your numbers coming up when you haven't put the money on
<diddledan> :-)
<mungbean> excepyt you could play for a million years and still might not come up
<mungbean> the odds are too low to fathom, compared with the "but somebody wins"
<diddledan> wait, what?! facebook is advertising at me (not new) the advert "ugly females inside: we have alot of females desperate to get a date. but they're not pretty. join now."
<shauno> it can be quite worrying how well fb knows you
<diddledan> right. gmail. spotify just emailed me and in the subject line in my inbox view on gmail it had a button to go straight to spotify's web player to play the music it was advertising at me. how did they get that button there?
<mungbean> my dog just farted and looked innicently at me
<mungbean> diddledan: screenshot
<mungbean> ?
<mungbean> laptop for mum in law, how many gb ram?
<mungbean> new ones are win8 :(
<diddledan> mungbean: https://plus.google.com/u/0/111403714821787277067/posts/TTXiWqFuu8J
<mungbean> should i do win7 or keep win8 till 8.1
<mungbean> i see
<diddledan> the text/plain part of the message is "missing text version" in base64 encoding
<diddledan> so it ain't that
<AlanBell> what do people use for web applications with a mongodb back end?
<diddledan> looks like there's some meta tags in the html mail that might do it
<diddledan> http://gmailblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/take-action-right-from-inbox.html
<Jez> Hello.
<Jez> Ubuntu does not seem to shut down or restart on my system (Acer TravelMate 5520).  No splash screen or anything, just goes to the boot screen and then sits there ticking away forever.
<Jez> The halt splash used to appear, then seemed to hang for ages.
<Jez>  To my knowledge, it shut down from there once, while I'd wandered off for a quarter hour.
<Jez> But after the first week it stopped, now all I get is the boot screen and no shut down.
<Jez> Can anyone offer any advice?
<iPenguin> Hello
<iPenguin> I somehow keep getting errors when i boot ubuntu on my laptop
<iPenguin> The error says "This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot- please use a kernel appropiate for your CPU." Can anyone tell me what this means?
<iPenguin> Will i need to download x32bit?
<diddledan> I would have answered but they were too impatient
<diddledan> people ought to use gentoo for a while just to learn the art of waiting
<diddledan> have global spam levels dropped in the past 6 months or is it just that I've not been very prolific over giving out my email address of late?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-01
<hamitron> I recall something been done by a lot of providers
<hamitron> didn't really read what it was
<hamitron> ;)
<diddledan> lol
<hamitron> it was one of them cool news articles I opened, and didn't bother reading
<diddledan> I've got approximately 300 spams in my spambox over the last month at my main account, but my old account which forwards to it and used to clock over 3000 per month still only has ~500 for the month
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<KrimZon> morning
<brobostigon> morning KrimZon
<SuperEngineer> hi folks
<MartijnVdS> Wow, hardware.info did an endurance test with a Samsung SSD
<brobostigon> result ?
<MartijnVdS> they got to >100 years of "normal" use (up to 10GB writes/day) -- by writing to it constantly for 5 weeks
<MartijnVdS> >700TB of writes
<brobostigon> wow.
<MartijnVdS> Samsung guarantees the cells in the SSD for 1000 write cycles, and they got to 3200ish
<MartijnVdS> before they got the first unrecoverable read error
<brobostigon> impressive.
<MartijnVdS> (I've been monitoring the hardware sites: the Haswell NDA is supposed to end on June 2nd, and it's already tomorrow in parts of the world already ;)
<brobostigon> i was impressed last night, my nexus7, wifi turned on, light use, on battery for just over 10 hours, and lost 2% battery.
<MartijnVdS> that's quite good
<brobostigon> yes, thats what i thought.
<MartijnVdS> you're sure it wasn't lying on one of those wireless charging devices? :P
<brobostigon> the nexus7 isnt capable os such a thing.
<brobostigon> of*
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> the 7, not the 4\
<MartijnVdS> so it doesn't have a 2g/3g radio to suck power :)
<brobostigon> i quote "my nexus7" :)
<brobostigon> quite.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I fail at reading ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :( oh dear.
<brobostigon> mind you, i wouldnt mind a nexus4, if someone wants to donate one, :)
<iPenguin> Hi, I am downloading ubuntu mini.iso but for some reason it has been stuck on 6 minuites of download left for ages. Does anyone know what the problem is?
<MartijnVdS> your network plug got disconnected
<MartijnVdS> Useless fact of the day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana
<mungbean> .TS files
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: MPEG transport streams
<mungbean> what are they and how would i convert to divx?
<mungbean> would the usual mencoder work?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you get them off DVB cards, usually
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I chop them using avconv, then hit the result with ghb (gui-handbrake)
<MartijnVdS> That generates mpeg4 files
<mungbean> avconv is CLI or GUI?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's the new name of ffmpeg(-cli)
<mungbean> oh yeah
<MartijnVdS> avconv -i your_file.ts -c copy -ss start_second.frame -t duration.frame "Output.mkv"
<MartijnVdS> maybe .frame = .fractional seconds, but I never checked
<mungbean> ah, having problems producing my .TS file anyway
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: from a DVB source?
<mungbean> i have a .rec file but my php script to convert to .TS
<mungbean> PHP Parse error:  syntax error, unexpected T_VARIABLE
<MartijnVdS> I don't know .rec files
<mungbean> its from my topfield pvr
<mungbean> allegedly they are v simlar to .TS
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Maybe ProjectX can help there
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: maybe ffmpeg/avconv can read it natively
<mungbean> oh pastebinit is broken :(
<mungbean> so is paste.ubuntu.com
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.toppy.org.uk/~offdigital/rec2ts_v0.02.zip
<mungbean> thats windows AFAIK
<MartijnVdS> it's very plain C
<mungbean> i was using http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7338&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
<MartijnVdS> all you have to do is convert the ULONG/USHORT stuff to uint32 etc.
<MartijnVdS> ah php!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: does PHP give you a line number with the error?
<mungbean> line 8
<MartijnVdS> you might be missing a semicolon
<MartijnVdS> according to stackexchange
<mungbean> i saw that
<mungbean> but no :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I'm fixing the C file
<mungbean> oh you lovely man :D
<mungbean> ah MartijnVdS , i downloaded the raw file for php and it works
<mungbean> so must have been a bad character
<mungbean> so will avconv do my cropping?
<mungbean> i have a .ts file now
<mungbean> i need divx for the dvd player
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: avconv does the time cropping, handbrake does the black bar cropping
<MartijnVdS> ah.. old divx :(
<mungbean> yeah :(
<mungbean> i have a dvd player that has usb slot
<mungbean> so backups are going on a drive
<mungbean> in divx for the dvd player to understand
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: wget http://martijn.vandestreek.net/~martijn/rec2ts.c
<mungbean> i'm not very HDef
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: gcc -o rec2ts rec2ts.c
<mungbean> many thanks
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I don't know how to encode to divx, but there must be tons of tutorials
<mungbean> mencoder Shaun_the_Sheep_Series_3_-_8._Hard_to_Swallow_b01r70vr_default.mp4 -ovc xvid -oac mp3lame -xvidencopts pass=2:bitrate=800  -o shaun_3-8-copy2.avi
<mungbean> thats what i use for iplayer
<shauno> \o/
<mungbean> will try with the .TS file
<mungbean> lol, highlight?
<shauno> yeah
<MartijnVdS> on "shaun" or on "sheep"? :P
<shauno> "yes"
<MartijnVdS> oh wait you're not Welsh or Kiwi
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: thanks for your help
<mungbean> by the way, how do i time crop with avconv>
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: avconv -i inputfile.ts -c copy -ss start_time -t duration output_file.mkv
<MartijnVdS> output file can be .ts too if you want
<mungbean> then it doesn't re-ecode?
<mungbean> shoudl be quick..
<MartijnVdS> start_time and duration are either in the format: seconds.(either milliseconds or frames, don't know) or hh:mm:ss.frames
<MartijnVdS> it only copies, no re-encoding
<MartijnVdS> but it's ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> you can probably tell it to do xvid encoding at the same time :)
<mungbean> i found mencoder to be better for that
<MartijnVdS> http://ffmpeg.org/trac/ffmpeg/wiki/How%20to%20encode%20Xvid%20/%20DivX%20video%20with%20ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> http://libav.org/faq.html#How-do-I-encode-Xvid-or-DivX-video-with-avconv_003f
<mungbean> can't remember why
<mungbean> maybe a quality thing :S
<mungbean> or an ubuntu avconv crippled issue
<popey> ubuntu avconf isnt crippled
<MartijnVdS> anymore.
<mungbean> on 12.04?
<popey> there's only one or two codecs that we have issues with
<mungbean> popey: do you know who runs paste.ubuntu.com ?
<popey> yes, canonical IS
<popey> why?
<mungbean> try running pastebinit or pasting sometihng via the website
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5722881/
<popey> wfm
<mungbean> ah, try the php code
<popey> some stuff is blocked
<popey> "PHP and other Web scripts are not allowed
<popey> "
<mungbean> aha
<mungbean> didn't notice that
<mungbean> but deffo, eyah
<mungbean> ooh vlc not showing the time in the .ts file, how annoying
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: avidemux will
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if it's SD.. otherwise i use mplayer
 * MartijnVdS needs better automatic PVR software
<mungbean> mplayer doesn't show anything?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: press "o" several times
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: and/or look on the command line you started it from
<mungbean> ooh tnhkas
<mungbean> thanks
<mungbean> didn't know that
<MartijnVdS> It's how I've been recording satellite tv
<MartijnVdS> too bad avidemux can't handle H.264 properly, and I have to guess frame numbers :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: does the C thingy work?
<mungbean>  avconv -i test.ts -c copy -ss 05:36:09 -t 300 test-cropped.ts
<mungbean> created a 0 file
<MartijnVdS> 5 hours, 36 minutes?
<MartijnVdS> ah you always start from 0
<mungbean> hmm
<MartijnVdS> even if the TS timestamps don't
<MartijnVdS> so it's probably better to get the timing off the command line
<mungbean> should be 5 mins
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: 00:05:36.9 ?
<MartijnVdS> 9th frame of th 36th second of the 5th minute?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: A: 129.4 V: 129.4 A-V:  0.013 ct:  0.024   0/  0 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0
<mungbean> seems to have spoiled audio sync
<MartijnVdS> ^ I'd pass "129.4" in that case
<mungbean> let's check again
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: output to mkv, that keeps better audio sync
<mungbean> i was doing "copy"
<mungbean> how wold u pass the 129.4?
<mungbean> i have avconv -i test.ts -c copy -ss 20169.5 -t 300 test-cropped.ts
<mungbean> but fail
<mungbean>            position may be either in seconds or in "hh:mm:ss[.xxx]" form.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: hmm
<MartijnVdS> your TS timings are wrong then
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I have an intermediate .ts to cope with that:
<MartijnVdS> avconv -i test.ts -c copy test-out.ts
<MartijnVdS> then work on test-out.ts
<MartijnVdS> avconv -i test-out.ts -c copy -ss blah
<MartijnVdS> (check timings using test-out.ts as well)
<mungbean> ah, fantastic , cheers
<mungbean> timing fixed now
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<mungbean> so u reckon ffmpeg better for producing divx from the newly cropped ts?
<MartijnVdS> you can crop & encode in one go once you've figured out the crop timings
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can use "avidemux" to get hh:mm:ss.xxx-format times, and it uses its own indexes, so timings should be OK even on the original ts
<mungbean> hmm quality seems horrible in the resulting avi
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: how are you running the command(s)
<mungbean> avconv -i test-cropped.ts -c:v mpeg4 -c:a copy -vtag xvid test-cropped.avi
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you want a -b:v 800k in there
<MartijnVdS> or higher
<MartijnVdS> maybe even 1000-1200ish
<MartijnVdS> (video bitrate)
<mungbean> 800k looking good ta
<mungbean> will c:a copy work as a valid divx format?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the audio will probably be mpeg1-layer2 or ac3
<MartijnVdS> that should work
<mungbean> right now to test on the dvd player...
<MartijnVdS> (and they call me a perpetual source of *useless* knowledge!)
<MartijnVdS> BOOM
<MartijnVdS> Haswell reviews online!
<MartijnVdS> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested
<mungbean> all is well, many thanks again
<mungbean> i figure cropping and sorting out all these videos will be a days work at least :(
<mh0> Oh, I was here after all? :P
<mh0> I never knew that :3
<MartijnVdS> welcome
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Are they adding a digit for each gen?!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmph - still 4 cores :-(
<penguin42> and it looks like you have to be careful if you want the transactional stuff to pick the right model
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: nah they're just increasing the first digit by 1 :)
<daftykins> afternoon all
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Looking at ark.intel.com it's quite tricky to figure out the different sub models etc - but I want more cores! There were some 6 core sandy bridge ones, it looks like if you want the fastest desktop processor you can still get one of those
<penguin42> daftykins: and a sunny afternoon it is
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: wikipedia has a nice table with the models + capabilities
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitecture%29   doesn't seem to show the details
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: what more do you need? (scroll down to "Desktop processors")
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It doesn't show whether the processor has TSX-NI on
<daftykins> penguin42: indeed! i strolled out and got an ice cream beside the castle
<penguin42> daftykins: Same here; (although not by a castle...)
<daftykins> penguin42: :D i got a large strawberry mister softee with a flake \o/
<penguin42> daftykins: Got 3 scoops; one chocolate, one strawberry one banana - nice combo :-)
<daftykins> ooh
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: transactional memory? is that useful?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Potentially - it's supposed to be wonderful for multithreaded performance
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they're on on 4770, but not on 4770k
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: same with vt-d
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod, finding exactly which set has it is odd
<MartijnVdS> I wonder why they turn it off on the unlocked models
<penguin42> it'll be interesting to see if Ars redo the tests with a TSX code
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh that's odd, I'd expect the unlocked to have all the goodies
<daftykins> are we talking Haswell?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, NDAs ended ~15:00 your time
<daftykins> ah yes just seen a news story on anandtech
<daftykins> er, review even
<daftykins> \o/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the unlocked one is 100MHz faster, the graphics bit is 1.25GHz vs 1.2GHz on the locked CPU
<MartijnVdS> and the unlocked CPU has fewer advanced features.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> same on i5 (4670)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But if you are a virt head then the VT-d on the locked one may well be faster, similarly if you manage to do something interesting with TSX
<MartijnVdS> sure but why disable it?
<MartijnVdS> at least they all have the new vector bits
<penguin42> beats me
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Only sane explanation I can see is that the logic is the slowest path and it's on the edge for the faster clocks, but it seems a bit odd - unless it's trying to push you to Xeons
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they'll release "Extreme edition" chips later this year, those might have it enabled
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: or maybe Broadwell (the next generation)
<penguin42> isn't that what the 'extreme edition' is?
<MartijnVdS> no they also have xeons
<MartijnVdS> extreme edition = 6 cores, more PCIe lanes
<penguin42> can't justify updating this PC for another 4 core'r
<MartijnVdS> My current machine is 3.5 years old (i3-530)
<MartijnVdS> and it's SLOW
<MartijnVdS> http://ark.intel.com/compare/75123,46472
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> surely not
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Mine is 3.5 years old (i7-860) - and it's not bad
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: also, the integrated graphics are bad (rendering problems in all Source games :)
<daftykins> oh you actually use that?
<penguin42> they really need to get people to work on that - there's no reason they should be flaky like that
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: as long as nvidia has a binary-only driver that breaks every other week, and AMD/ATi drivers are similar (but the other weeks, and they drop support after a very short time).. yes
<daftykins> tough way to upgrade though :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I can save up a few euros once every 3 years ;)
<daftykins> :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: For this one I think the Radeon+i7 worked out a better buy
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Bottom end Radeon (fanless)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have an old radeon, not supported by fglrx (how's 3d support on the free drivers these days?)
<MartijnVdS> I don't like fglrx.. too much hassle on (kernel/X) upgrade
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I'm not a gamer, GL works fine for me on KDE with the open Radeon stuff
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Mine is the HD4350
<daftykins> legacy PCI got murdered yay :D
<penguin42> ?
<daftykins> in the new 8 series chipset
<penguin42> ah, nothing that can't be sorted with a bridge anyway
<daftykins> i bought my first PCI-E card the other day
<daftykins> + 1x i mean
<daftykins> just a standard intel gigabit NIC
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, so I need to buy a new sat card :(
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> TV strikes again
<daftykins> ;)
<penguin42> for some reason multiway PCI-e ether cards are really expensive compared to PCI cards
<daftykins> hmm
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Mine's the.. 5570
<penguin42> ah you're newer than mine :-)
 * penguin42 must learn some OpenCL one of these days  I suppose I could upgrade to a cheap 6xxx
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the new Intel CPUs do OpenCL, and Intel has an SDK afaik
<daftykins> i've a Q6600 and an nvidia GTX 560 Ti
<MartijnVdS> http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-sdk-for-opencl-applications-xe-2013-release-notes
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm is that actually running on the GPU - that looks like it's for Phi
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: xeon, yes
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: but H-Online claims it's for GPU as well: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Intel-releases-OpenCL-SDK-for-Linux-1860556.html
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Doesn't look like http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumCompute/  is there yet on the Radeons yet
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMSzln0T9ZI
<penguin42> oh I didn't know of minuteearth, I'm subscribed to minutephysics
<MartijnVdS> oh xkcd: https://twitter.com/whatifnumbers/status/340874807480573952 + https://twitter.com/whatifnumbers/status/340874841924190208
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/whatifnumbers/status/340874782075650048  + https://twitter.com/whatifnumbers/status/340874740573036544
<Azelphur> can you run proper desktop apps (eg pidgin) on ubuntu phone?
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<daftykins> heya \o
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if you can make them talk to Mir instead of X, probably
<Azelphur> ah
<SuperEngineer> wow! just seen the time.... who nicked the day!!!?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: someone must have seized it
<SuperEngineer> wanted: freedom fighters to regain today's lost time!
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/Komqynr.jpg
<daftykins> my two wee ones last week
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you should probably call Einstein about that
<daftykins> get Marty McFly on the case
<MartijnVdS> or call the Doctor
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: daftykins:   definite :)
<SuperEngineer> especially The Doctor - got 1 epsisode on disk still to watch ;)
<daftykins> i've not tried any
<daftykins> not really fond of modern British series
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: treason!
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: [I think you'll find that read  modern *Welsh* series!  lol
<daftykins> ^_^
<MartijnVdS> isn't Wales part of Britain?
<daftykins> very well
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: they wish they weren't
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: tough :P
<SuperEngineer> part of UK actually
<MartijnVdS> well, the island England, Scotland and Wales are on is called "Great Britain"
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles
<SuperEngineer> agrred
<SuperEngineer> *agreed even
<daftykins> i be a British Island
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<daftykins> alas not part of the UK however
<penguin42> daftykins: You're not saying we should eject you from this room are you?
<shauno> for not being -uk?  or for not watching dr who :p
 * penguin42 admits to not watching dr who
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - couldn't resist - just bought a humble bundle weekly sale... there are windows or mac only... time to play with Wine!
<SuperEngineer> [would be nice if they included "& if you have Wine on Linux, here's what to do" bit]
<SuperEngineer> ...apart from pray!
<daftykins> penguin42: hehe nah
<daftykins> argh man the French tourists seriously get on my nerves in town here
<popey> Azelphur: qt apps can, if ported to qt5
<daftykins> just had a little joke with the supermarket checkout dude that had no idea what they were saying
<Azelphur> popey: TIL there's a qt5 xD
<Azelphur> but yea, cool
<popey> yeah, we did a lot of work to package up qt5
<popey> and of course the good citizens we are, upstreamed what we did
<popey> (not that anyone noticed, and people still say we don't do anything at all for upstreams)
<daftykins> directhex might say cheers if you poke him
<daftykins> :D
<aDaM^> lo all :)
<daftykins> o hi
<daftykins> i have an oven to tend to and a latte to make, having just acquired lovely Guernsey milk
<daftykins> what does milk cost up on the mainland? about 1.09 a litre here
<DJones> daftykins: 2l for Â£1 in supermarkets
<daftykins> day-um
 * popey has paella, meatballs and potatoes here
<daftykins> mmmm paella
<daftykins> that is an excellent idea
<popey> eek. no alioli
 * popey quickly knocks some up
 * penguin42 thought it was about 50p/pint here
 * StevenR paid Â£1.29 for 4 pints of milk last week
<christel> i am so picky, i only like cravendale (it is the only one without an aftertaste in my opinion and it tastes similar to norwegian milk) which costs like 1.98 for 4 pints!
<christel> (so i make gareth and david drink "normal" milk!) :S
<MartijnVdS> uht vs pasteurized?
<MartijnVdS> christel: ^
<MartijnVdS> UHT has a weird sweet aftertaste to me
<christel> i've never tried uht, the prospect terrifies me
<christel> cravendale is basically milk that has been pasteurised six hundred times
<christel> (probably not six hundred)
<christel> oh i lie, it has been filtered pre-pasturisation
<christel> as opposed to heat-treated in the way uht milk has
<MartijnVdS> christel: Dutch milk tastes different to most other countries' milk too, maybe similar?
<MartijnVdS> (UHT is only for "long term storage" )
<christel> possibly! if i am not mistaken cravendale is an Arla product
<daftykins> all mainlander stuff tastes weird, it's not even for sale here typically as we have our very own from the very famous Guernsey cows :D
<christel> arla is a dano-swedish company
<christel> so i guess this may explain why it tastes more "like home" if they use similar processes as back home :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
 * MartijnVdS has been thinking of driving(!) up to Denmark, Sweden and Norway next year
<MartijnVdS> as that seems to be possible now
<MartijnVdS> without going through russia
<daftykins> :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: there's a bridge from Denmark to Sweden
<daftykins> think looks like there are 2
<christel> :D
<christel> do it!
<daftykins> christel: i thought you were a US'ian
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Malmo - Copenhagen and..?
<MartijnVdS> christel: but the language barrier!
<christel> daftykins: nah, norwegian! i've been in the uk for a while mind (and in the states before that)
<MartijnVdS> christel: (OK it's just a dialect of Frisian but still!)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah my bad - it just looked like it up at Helsingborg because the label was overlapping the land
<christel> MartijnVdS: sweden has better (and faster) roads than norway and you can cross over at numerous points -- so if you're driving up you may want to consider doing any longer stretches on the swedish side of the border!
<daftykins> and big roads lead to the ferry
<christel> (i always drive across the border and head down on the swedish roads to head back across elsewhere when i need to drive any distances!) :s
<daftykins> hehe
<christel> (though you'd miss out on the pretty norwegian nature that way!
<daftykins> i don't drive my place is so small ;x
<MartijnVdS> christel: I wasn't planning on driving all the way up north or anything
<MartijnVdS> christel: I drove to cornwall a few weeks ago, I'm still not used to driving 3 hours/day :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> my mates were pretty wimpish during the roadtrip we did in the US
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: The US is different. Everything is made for those distances.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Cornwall/Land's end really feels like the end of the world ;)
<daftykins> yeah, a flawed design imo :D
<MartijnVdS> Cornwall or the US? :)
<daftykins> but that's because i'm quite negative toward the 'you must drive to live' approach to life
<daftykins> US
<daftykins> i used to go to Fowey, Cornwall on family holidays
<MartijnVdS> I loved Sennen Cove
<mungbean> misread that
<mungbean> stupid kerning
<penguin42> haha
<mungbean> when i was young we visited lizard point. don't do that with a competitive family who all want to have stood more southerly than the next
<mungbean> u will never get home
<mungbean> i won though
<shauno> remember going to the satellite place at lizard point when we were kids
<daftykins> mungbean: XD
<penguin42> http://www.asus.com/News/L9xTPmmMwTlPMq5l  would be nice
<daftykins> indeed! i left that up on my wealthy client's desktop so he'd be tempted
<daftykins> he loves his photography so currently has a 2560x1440 30" Dell
<mungbean> if you were buying a laptop for parents, would you go for the one with better processor or 6gb vs 4gb ram version
<mungbean> i mean, one version has better cpu with 4gb ram
<MartijnVdS> more ram
<MartijnVdS> ages better
<daftykins> RAM is cheap to upgrade and easy to do though
<MartijnVdS> true
<penguin42> and 4gb is 'enough' depending what they're doing
<daftykins> indeed
<mungbean> its http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/laptops-netbooks/laptops/laptops/toshiba-satellite-c870d-11x-17-3-laptop-white-20759702-pdt.html?gclid=CLab7v2MwbcCFYXMtAodmBAAAg&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~Home+%2f+Laptops+%26+Netbooks+%2f+Laptops+%2f+Laptops~20759702&istCompanyId=9a35962d-802d-4e67-9721-0a3328ca1f02&istItemId=xtliriqtp&istBid=t&ef_id=Uaj9FQAAAQJn1FHn:20130531194213:s
<mungbean> vs
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toshiba-Satellite-C870-1H2-17-3-inch-Notebook/dp/B00B18B3OW/ref=sr_ob_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1370032059&sr=1-2
<mungbean> unsure how i will handle the win8 issue
<daftykins> if you get a windows 8 pro copy, you can enact downgrade rights and install 7
<daftykins> not sure if that's true at retail though
<MartijnVdS> buy a dell with ubuntu ;)
<penguin42> mungbean: Now, which one do you think has the better CPU?
<daftykins> i'd prefer intel in mobile personally
<mungbean> the i3
<daftykins> but i've no idea how those two compare :D
<mungbean> is much better than the amd
<daftykins> mungbean: if you're lucky the Tosh might have 4GB RAM in one DIMM, then you can add a second for cheap
<daftykins> i did that in my Asus for Â£17!
<mungbean> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-3120M-vs-AMD-E2-1800
<mungbean> i might just get her to choose based on colour
<popey> i wouldn't buy Toshiba for anyone
<penguin42> odd that the C870 doesn't seem to spec the display except in inches
<penguin42> this <--- machine is a Tosh - had it about 6 years now - although used it static
<mungbean> popey: they liked their last one so want another
<daftykins> brand bias tends to be born out of isolated incidents imo
<mungbean> at that price i'd probably do dell outlet or samsung personally
<mungbean> in this age ofprice comparison, no two shops sell the same version
<mungbean> i think the more RAM version is prob best bet
<mungbean> since it has to last 3+ years
<mungbean> without interference from me
<penguin42> dunno, I'd take the i3 I think
<daftykins> go i3 and slap some more in
<daftykins> do eeet
<mungbean> but is win8 a hog?
<mungbean> on ram
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> but like i said, consider ditching it for 7
<mungbean> thats more pain for me
<mungbean> driver support etc
<daftykins> check the manufacturer site now
<mungbean> i hate being the go-to guy forthis
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i got asked to go over to plug my mums new keyboard in today Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> i said no chance
<mungbean> i might leave the choice to them
<mungbean> just tell them there's not much in it , etc , tell them the issues
<daftykins> thing is, at least if you pick it and sort it at the start, you know what state it's in
<daftykins> i could never leave anyone running a factory install - too painful :(
<daftykins> you just don't get the hardware you bought! :D
<mungbean> i want zero input on this
<mungbean> they lve far waway
<daftykins> on an unrelated note, here's the win7 boot speed of that new build PC i did :D
<daftykins> http://tinypic.com/r/5eizox/5
<popey> my father in law asked for help printing today
<popey> he has had the same printer as me for ~3 years
<popey> yet feels compelled to reinstall windows drivers all the damn time
<popey> i just went to control panel, removed and re-added the printer, it worked first time
<popey> "there, leave it alone!"
<mungbean> popey: have you tried catbearding?
<popey> yes
<popey> its hard
<popey> i put marmite on the back of the card
<mungbean> probably needs cheese
<mungbean> yeah
<daftykins> cat what O_O
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/iJgRqZcF
<daftykins> hey guys does line 803 onward suggest that disk needs an fsck, or it already ran enough to fix something?
<daftykins> 'recovery complete'
<popey> does it do that every boot?
<daftykins> guys complaining about major slow booting
<popey> looks like unclean shutdown
<daftykins> yeah apparently it's hanging on shutdown
<daftykins> so probably causing that part as a result
<popey> so they flip the switch to power off and it fscks on restart
<popey> sounds plausible
<daftykins> mmm, i suggested checking SMART status
<daftykins> i've no idea if there's any way to see shutdown logs?
<popey> dunno if such logs exist
 * bigcalm waddles into the hotel room
<popey> pip pip
<popey> good evening?
<bigcalm> Hip hop
<daftykins> popey: thanks, will see how the SMART info finding approach goes
<bigcalm> Feeling bloated by the good meal and fine ale :)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> I see Sky is looking as dashing as ever
<popey> yeah, opportunistic photo
<popey> was quite chuffed with that
<bigcalm> I know the cat that lives with us is not our cat, but I'm already missing not having a cat to fuss
<bigcalm> Guess I don't do holidays
<daftykins> bigcalm: what was your chosen ale?
<bigcalm> daftykins: This evening it was Snarck Lifter (I think)
<daftykins> ah Sneck Lifter
<daftykins> love that stuff :D
<daftykins> pretty high % too, 5.x i think
<bigcalm> Heh, Sneck :D
<daftykins> my fave pub here on Guernsey rotates guest ales
<daftykins> so i go in and read the lables and sometimes get to let out a little celebratory noise ;D
<bigcalm> I like certain Belgian beers of 8 or 9%
<daftykins> ooh exciting new game...
<daftykins> http://www.geoguessr.com/
<bigcalm> That's a little taxing on my phone's 3g
 * bigcalm refuses to pay for PremierInn wifi
<mungbean> matt smith leaving dr who :(
<bigcalm> Spoilers!
<daftykins> bigcalm: find someone that's on it and change your MAC to theirs
<daftykins> ;D
<bigcalm> ...
<daftykins> ?
<bigcalm> 3g is good enough for minecraft
<mungbean> http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/06/matt-smith-to-leave-the-tardis/
 * bigcalm goes to break a few blocks
 * bigcalm also leaves IRC so that mungbean doesn't spoil any more dr who
<daftykins> is that the big forehead dude?
<daftykins> that kinda looks like Frankenstein's monster
<mungbean> bigcalm: its gonna be in all the papers tomorrow
<mungbean> its not story spoilers
<mungbean> just facts
<mungbean> sad ones
<popey> haha, the big forehead dude â»
 * popey notes its on news at 10
 * mungbean leaves irc for a power nap
<mungbean> next feed at 11.20
<daftykins> popey: my skills of description have always taken me far
<popey> â»
<daftykins> mostly from running away from the person i was asked to describe
<daftykins> my mate's mate does snow machine stuff for film + TV
<daftykins> says that Doctor Who bloke is pleasant + played football with the crew
<shauno> football's pleasant?
<daftykins> not to my mind
<daftykins> but i'm hoping you're teasing :P
<daftykins> somehow...
<popey> \o/ hate football
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU etc
<daftykins> i swear you need something removed from your brain to enjoy football
<daftykins> totally not bias, honest
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vGGlODF7_RY#t=98s
<daftykins> just going for a roll around the neighbourhood lads
<daftykins> and ladettes
<penguin42> hmm, google maps got me to do an invite for the new maps a few weeks ago, and it's been showing me 'your invite is on the way' for about 2 weeks, and I got a mail sometime during the week to say I've got it, but maps still shows it as 'on the way'
<daftykins> is that when logged into your account on the site?
<daftykins> maybe a cache clear to let some new cookies in might help?
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> well I tried logging out and in, and from a different browser
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> for me, maps kept saying that until I followed the link in the invite to activate it
<penguin42> which activation link?
<penguin42> ah!
<penguin42> The 'start exploring' on the thing that looks like it's going to be an explanational video
<penguin42> ok, so it's not rendering at all in Firefox
<penguin42> working in chromium
<daftykins> coincidence? i think not
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> it's suggestions for exploting the area seem primarily be related to takeaways and indian restaurants
<daftykins> penguin42: can't argue with that
<penguin42> it's not something I'm really interested in
<daftykins> really :o
<daftykins> not a fan of a good spicy curry?
<penguin42> indeed, my limit of spice is gently a pinch of cinnamon with my apple crumble
<daftykins> aww
<penguin42> daftykins: I'd have thought by now Google would have figured out that it wants to tell me where the nearest chocolate supply is
<daftykins> are they chocolate purveyors in your mind? :)
<penguin42> well, it's the important thing to show on a map isn't it....
<daftykins> very true
<daftykins> followed swiftly by local Gyms perhaps
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> Xeon Phi seems to about Â£1700
<penguin42> little beyond my normal price range
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i was looking at an Â£800 xeon on overclockers.co.uk earlier
<daftykins> crazy money
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-02
<penguin42> the phi is the gpu like thing
<daftykins> oh?
<penguin42> yeh, it's 60 cores, x86 programmable (ish?) but lives on a PCI-e card
<daftykins> ooh
<hamitron> so get an AMD APU that lacks cpu horsepower, but provides graphics, then use the pci-e slot saved for real cpu power? ;)
<penguin42> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Xeon-Phi-Coprocessor-CPU,22700.html
<daftykins> ah yeah
<penguin42> hamitron: There's talk of HPC systems built around ARMs with GPUs wired off them becaus the main CPU doesn't have to do much
<daftykins> http://gypsyops.aresgate.net/~vladi/bad_xbmc_ati_r300.jpg
<daftykins> guy getting that with XBMC on his r300 card with 'radeon' driver
<daftykins> glxgears does it too
<daftykins> means he has to run fglrx, no?
<penguin42> I'd be surprised if fglrx ran on something that old
<daftykins> oh it's old? oops
<daftykins> ah yes 9000 series
<daftykins> ouchies
<hamitron> I personally think everything on 1 chip is best
<hamitron> well, the future
<hamitron> oops
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> SoC?
<hamitron> well, certainly heading that way
<daftykins> depends on the task i think
<penguin42> not too sure it's the way I want to go - you end up with very little choice
<hamitron> lowers the total cost of a unit
<hamitron> penguin42, agreed
<hamitron> that is why i corrected my "best" statement
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> although, windows 8 has really changed the way I work now
<hamitron> so maybe change is ok
<hamitron> just hoping there is always a viable normal desktop "hobbyist" option
<daftykins> hamitron: are you actually getting on with 8? i'd get a start menu prog if i installed it :(
<hamitron> I rarely use the desktop on it tbh
<hamitron> I had to follow a load of video tutorials more than once, to remember how to do things
<hamitron> my main complaint, is you HAVE to go to the desktop for some things
<daftykins> oh is this on a tablet?
<hamitron> no, laptop with touch screen
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i don't really know how to use it but also i can't see myself using the 'new' start screen at all
<daftykins> i don't want to peer at little boxes :(
<hamitron> you don't, they are big boxes
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> pfft
<hamitron> I wish they'd allow them to be smaller :/
<daftykins> i'm probably just at the age where change is becoming scary
<daftykins> i dunno
<daftykins> 8.1 is allegedly gonna make 'em resizable i think
<daftykins> may've misread / imagined
<hamitron> well, I am a stick in the mud sort of person
<hamitron> ;D
<hamitron> and I gotta say, windows 8 doesn't work unless you learn to work differently
<hamitron> and probably need a touch screen
<hamitron> daftykins, like what they did to windows phone 7?
<daftykins> mmm i'd find it weird touching a laptop screen
<daftykins> :>
<hamitron> it is
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> i have no idea about windows phone, i've not used one since v6
<hamitron> I have a windows phone too
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> "know the enemy"
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> there's that
<hamitron> it was cheap too
<daftykins> *shrug* i got my nexus 4 for about Â£290
<daftykins> anywho i must head off, crazy o'clock is fast approaching
<hamitron> kk
<hamitron> mine was Â£99
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> D:
<hamitron> and galaxy nexus was like, Â£360 at the time
<hamitron> I'd be interested to hear from anyone that uses ubuntu on a touch screen though
<hamitron> heh, /boot needs to be bigger than 70MB these days :/
<penguin42> yeh and Ubuntu doesn't seem to clean up in there that well
<hamitron> yeh, time to remove old kernels
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> this is what I get for being lazy and not watching what is happening ;)
<hamitron> think I'll make it 512MB next time
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<popey> exobuzz: happy birthday!
<exobuzz> thanks matey!
<exobuzz>  /dcc send cake popey
<penguin42> hmm I didn't know about the : command in bash
<neuro> oh good, just when i need to look at something on github ...
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> you getting the angry unicorn or the other one?
<mgdm> penguin42: what's that do?
<penguin42> mgdm: : is the same as true
<penguin42> mgdm: I saw a post on lkml where someone used    while :
<mgdm> ahh
<penguin42> that saves 3 characters!
<mgdm> I will probably avoid it because true is more obvious, but good to know :)
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> wow.  chillies do *not* go in the slow cooker.  I think I've invented a chemical weapon
<penguin42> haha
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what happened?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: we need details if we're to weaponise this
<shauno> scotch bonnet & mustard in a thai curry.  so far it's taken me 2 hours and one shower, and I've a third of the plate left
<shauno> I'm fairly convinced that if this was airborne, I'd have UN inspectors to dinner
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and/or MI5/6
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (do you count as foreign or domestic?)
<shauno> probably "yes", since I'm in the republic with a british passport
 * MartijnVdS installs Ubuntu on a Haswell i7-4770K machine
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Sunday openings
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: hth did you find somewhere to sell you that already ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, they even had a special "overclockers" event with Gigabyte and Corsair
<popey> nice
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Can you post an lspci and a cat /proc/cpuinfo ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so they had a "â¬25 off the CPU if you buy a Gigabyte motherboard deal"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: once it's booted, sure
<MartijnVdS> it's currently "running post-installation trigger update-notifier-common"
<MartijnVdS> has been for a few minutes too!
<penguin42> hmm - you doing a saucy or a raring?
<MartijnVdS> raringh
<penguin42> mind you if it's got that far I'd expect it to survive - but I wouldn't have expected a machine like that for you to have to wait for it
<penguin42> how much ram/disk did you get
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: 16G, a 120GB SSD and 3TB 7200rpm disk
<penguin42> nice
<penguin42> make -j :-)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> The "Racoon" logo at the end of the Raring install makes me think of http://www.youtube.com/user/thebrainscoop
<MartijnVdS> (which has a creepy raccoon in EVERY video)
<MartijnVdS> racoon.. raccoon.. aagh!
<penguin42> which CPU?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: i7-4770k
<penguin42> ah you went with the overclocker version rather than the one with the fun bits
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they had one running at 6.3GHz using liquid N2
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Go on, how much did it cost?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: total? â¬1100ish
<penguin42> not too bad
<MartijnVdS> including an all-in-one pre-filled water cooling block
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: What's it's name?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Seidon 120
<penguin42> why?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: quieter, better cooling performance
<penguin42> no, I mean what's the name you are giving to the machine
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "desktop"
<penguin42> boring!
<MartijnVdS> <-- inspired
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://martijn.vandestreek.net/~martijn/haswell/
 * SuperEngineer calls his "pooter"
 * penguin42 looks up your fun new flags :-)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nice, dmesg is reasonably clean - couple of moans about bios bugs (not seen a clean one) - there is a [drm:i915_write32] *ERROR* Unknown unclaimed register before writing to c5100  which looks like a fun graphics one
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: well it's a new generation, so there are bound to be things like that
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> the bios has some weird bugs as well, it sometimes falls back to a text mode-ish mode, from its cool graphicsy thing
<penguin42> text mode is good
<MartijnVdS> sure, everything works.. but it shouldn't fall back to text mode halfway through
<penguin42> yeh
<MartijnVdS> heh, it's keeping the CPU at 35Â°C
<MartijnVdS> yay overclocking to 4GHz + ondemand cpufreq stuff (or whatever the default is these days :)
<penguin42> nice
<MartijnVdS> and now it's time to use that gigabit ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have the Cooler Master Silencio 550 case
<MartijnVdS> and it actually is!
<MartijnVdS> (quiet)
<penguin42> ah good - hate noisy computers
<MartijnVdS> yay Intel
<MartijnVdS> [     4.132] (II) intel(0): RandR 1.2 enabled, ignore the following RandR disabled message.
<MartijnVdS> [     4.132] (--) RandR disabled
<Laney> haha
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: one free gem, shipped with every kernel :)
<MartijnVdS> rsyncing steam first.. let's see if HL2 works :)
<daftykins> evening all o/
<popey> yo
<daftykins> back in from a bit of simple network cabling at a friends
<daftykins> poor lads colourblind, so i said i'd help out :D
<daftykins> lots of Guernsey houses are made of 2 foot thick granite, so his house now has 3 wireless access points O_O
<DJones> daftykins: Is that internal walls as well?
<daftykins> yep
<DJones> Ouch
<daftykins> mostly due to extensions
<daftykins> proper old school homes over here
<daftykins> mines a 17th century cottage with granite
<daftykins> wooden floors though so i can go up through perfectly :D
<MartijnVdS> wow.. new google maps (Webgl) is *fluid* on Haswell
<MartijnVdS> where it stutters a lot on .. first-gen core i3
<daftykins> you bought one already or are reading up? :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have it already
<daftykins> :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: installing it now :)
<daftykins> how'd you get it so soon?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Special Sunday opening of the computer store :)
<daftykins> i don't even think most UK retailers i know have it listed
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> amazing dedication, sir
<popey> how much did the cpu/board combo come to?
<popey> did you have to get RAM too?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I went to see the overclocking contest (with a chance of *winning* haswell + a mainboard)
<MartijnVdS> but I didn't win
<MartijnVdS> popey: CPU + board + RAM = â¬660
<MartijnVdS> popey: I got some cool 2133MHz RAM sticks from Kingston
<popey> have you run HRB on it?
<MartijnVdS> HRB?
<daftykins> crikey
<DJones> daftykins: My parents house was originally built be a builder as his own house, so he used the best materials he could get, as a result all the bricks he used are firebricks, when we moved in, people fitting central heating burned out 4 drills and countless tungsten tipped drills
<popey> http://www.hants.lug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<popey> time perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'
<popey> run that â»
<daftykins> DJones: wowzer! don't want to try any mods anytime soon then? :D
<daftykins> i've an i7 3770K ivy bridge in front of me i could compare to running that? XD
<MartijnVdS> popey: real	0m2.809s
<MartijnVdS> user	0m2.804s
<MartijnVdS> sys	0m0.000s
<MartijnVdS> i7-4770k @ 4GHz \o/
<popey> yay, you win
<MartijnVdS> for now
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: didn't fancy 2.4-2.9GHz DDR3? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: That's even more expensive! :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: this is fast enough for now
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> yeah i got Adata 2 x 8GB 2133MHz stuff for this friends build, that was Â£108
<daftykins> gotta love the simplicity of the stuff with the XMP SPD profiles
<daftykins> enter BIOS, enable XMP, save and exit - done \o/
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have Kingstons
<MartijnVdS> except.. Y U NO DEFAULT
<daftykins> because it's technically out of spec for some hardware :>
<daftykins> but yeah i get you
<MartijnVdS> then don't sell it in a "2133MHz" kit
<daftykins> companies have always sold speeds outside of JEDEC regulation though
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: are you going to enjoy seeing what graphical quirks it has then?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: graphical quirks? :)
 * MartijnVdS hasn't seen any yet
<MartijnVdS> left4dead2 takes some time to sync, even on gbit
<MartijnVdS> rsync*
<daftykins> is that the most recent thing you have?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> well, I think so
<daftykins> time to make myself a latte i think
<daftykins> and possibly choose a film
<mungbean> was watching football then my pvr change channels because my wife is recording two other programmes :(
<daftykins> football is bad mmkay! ;)
<daftykins> mungbean: time for a triple feed card ;)
<ali1234> is there a way to redeem steam keys without installing the games?
<MartijnVdS> maybe on the website?
<daftykins> ^that'd be my thought
<MartijnVdS> or from the wrong architecture (code for a Windows-only game on Linux, for example)
<MartijnVdS> also.. you can say "Install now" then start deleting it immediately I think
<daftykins> when i redeemed a code the other day it just added the game to the list though, it didn't download it unless asked
<MartijnVdS> or cancel the install
<daftykins> this was the Windows steam client though
<ali1234> "delete local content"?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<ali1234> when i add the keys there is no option to not install the game
<ali1234> unless the key has multiple games
<ali1234> but then you have to install at least one of them or you can't click on "next"
<daftykins> :(
<ali1234> there is no option to add keys on the website
<daftykins> might be in via profile?
<daftykins> tbh even on Windows the client is an absolute joke
<daftykins> on the highest end hardware it just sits and has the whole UI freeze ;/
<popey> I've not had that on linux windows or osx
<popey> well, it pauses for a while
<daftykins> sometimes it lies claiming there's no internet connection too
<daftykins> that's an odd one
<popey> yeah, i had that
<mungbean> tvcatchup.com , what a fail
<daftykins> not even a windows restart fixed that XD
<daftykins> mungbean: their service is? my friends friend runs it
<ali1234> the client freeze is caused by html5
<ali1234> you have to manually copy flash plugin into the steam plugins folder
<ali1234> and it has to be the 32bit one
<mungbean> daftykins: doesn't work for me
<mungbean> requesting itv, then flash dies
<daftykins> oh well - flash... :D
<mungbean> wfm on other sites
<popey> i use tvcatchup quite a bit
<popey> seems to bork out now and then
<mungbean> ok works on firefox, not chrome
<mungbean> well the adverts are.
<daftykins> they have some serious hardware behind the scenes :D
<popey> works fine here in chromium
<brobostigon> the android app seems to work quite well.
<daftykins> in their data center they have some crazy fibre feed from the sat dish inside to split it off the many ways
<popey> bit stuttery
<ali1234> adding all these keys is going to take forever
<popey> oh balls
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> my Ouya is arriving in the next couple of days
<popey> and I'm away
<brobostigon> :(
<daftykins> they're tegra 3 aren't they?
<MartijnVdS> popey: so the kids get to play with it before you? ;)
<daftykins> is it final now or still development kit level?
<popey> its going in the stores this month, so final
<ali1234> hmm a lot of these games don't have linux versions on steam
<popey> you adding keys for HiB8?
<ali1234> i'm adding keys for every bundle since 5
<ali1234> 10 bundles in total
<popey> ahh
<ali1234> each one has between 3 and 10 keys
<ali1234> so far out of about 30 games only 14 have linux versions
<popey> yeah, its a shame you can't bundle them together and add them all
<ali1234> oh fun another bundle with separate keys for each game
<mungbean> i stopped buying HB when i realised i was just collecting games to not play them
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, there's usually 1 or 2 good games in each bundle
<popey> i like having them for opportunistic play
<daftykins> mungbean: so true :D
<mungbean> last one i played was SMB or limbo for 1/2 hour
<shauno> it'd be really neat if you could 'claim' your HB account in steam
<mungbean> about a year ago
<daftykins> the Ouya kinda concerned me, because i don't hugely see a market for what they've done
<ali1234> popey: you know, redeeming these games on USC isn't any better...
<popey> its worse on usc
<popey> way more clicks
<ali1234> it's fewer actually
<MartijnVdS> HL2 WORKS
<mungbean> \o/
 * MartijnVdS does a little dance
<mungbean> i have the DVD of that somewhere
<ali1234> with steam you have to: copy key, click "add game", paste key, click next 3 times, wait 20 seconds, click next, click cancel
<ali1234> with USC you just click the button for each game
<ali1234> it takes just as long though
<mungbean> stutterrr..buffer...
<mungbean> maybe its my bb line
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<mgdm> 'lo
<daftykins> \o
<popey> pip pip bigcalm
<daftykins> ali1234: sometimes i wonder if performing the task itself might not be quicker than your discussion of it ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: any plans for your old setup?
<ali1234> after you add each key steam takes 30 seconds to activate it which is plenty of time to write something here
<ali1234> it's a modal dialog of course
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no idea yet
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I can probably find an interested family member
<MartijnVdS> \o/ big family ;)
<daftykins> =]
<MartijnVdS> OK.. rsyncing music & photos. Time for sleep! :)
<bemod> hii
<bemod> i need help
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<bigcalm> Bloomin 3g
<popey> bemod: ask away
<bemod> pl
<bemod> ok*
<bemod> how i can stream udp in my ubuntu
<bemod> ?
<bemod> popey: ^
<popey> streaming audio/video from a server?
<bemod> webcam
<popey> oh, stream your webcam to the internet?
<bemod> stream and recive it
<bemod> no
<popey> I don't understand what you want to do
<ali1234> vlc can do it
<ali1234> he wants to stream webcam on UDP
<bemod> it's not work at all
<ali1234> yeah it's tricky
<ali1234> you have to make sure you have multicast addresses configured properly
<bemod> 127.0.0.1 it's ok?
<bemod> 244.0.0.1?
<bemod> not work at all.
<daftykins> blind leading the blind
<bemod> daftykins: what do you mean?
<daftykins> nothing don't worry :)
<bemod> ali1234: you can guide me?
<ali1234> sure i'm just reading up on it. it's been a while since i did it
<ali1234> 224 is the multicast address, not 244
<ali1234> i would recommend that you first test it using a video file rather than the webcam to isolate any problems with hardware
<ali1234> ah you need to use 239 as that's the private address range
<bemod> 239.0.0.1 is ok?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> on the server you do this: vlc -vvv file.avi âsout udp:239.0.0.1 âttl 12 âloop
<ali1234> on the client you do this: vlc -vvv udp:@239.0.0.1
<ali1234> the client should then show the file.avi
<ali1234> when you have that working you can adjust the server to play from webcam instead of a file
<ali1234> if it doesn't work, check what packets are sent and received with tcpdump
<bemod> how i do it?
<ali1234> how do you do what?
<bemod> webcam > vlc transmit > vlc recive,
<ali1234> ah it should be this to receive: vlc -vvv udp://@239.0.0.1
<bemod> and how i can transmit?
<bemod> the recevie is the easy part...
<ali1234> vlc -vvv file.avi âsout udp:239.0.0.1 âttl 12 âloop
<ali1234> or for webcam: vlc -vvv v4l2:///dev/video0 âsout udp:239.0.0.1 âttl 12 âloop
<bemod> ali1234: i try now
<bemod> in the trnsmit command - i see video on the screen
<ali1234> hang on
<bemod> in the receive command - noting happend
<ali1234> it's because yu copy pasted that command
<ali1234> and i copy pasted it from a website
<ali1234> and the website replaced -- with emdash
<ali1234> vlc -vvv v4l2:///dev/video0 --sout udp:239.0.0.1 --ttl 12 --loop
<ali1234> try that instead
<ali1234> i know it looks the same but it isn't
<bemod> ali1234: now boat of tham not works.
<ali1234> well, it works for me
<ali1234> try dropping the loop param, i guess it makes no sense for webcam
<bemod> what you use to transmmit?
<bemod> i try to receive the stream with mplayer and i get this
<bemod> No stream found to handle url udp://@239.0.0.1:1234
<ali1234> probably it isn't transmitting
<ali1234> check with tcpdump if you are receiving any packets
<bemod> how i use it?
<ali1234> sudo tcpdump -n -i eth0 dst 239.0.0.1
<ali1234> it seems not all formats can be streamed, probably we need to tell vlc to transcode the input first
<bemod> i need something that will not take a-lot of cpu to transcode
<daftykins> that'll be down to the type of video you're taking from your webcam
 * bigcalm kicks t-mobile
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> hooray
<daftykins> you're aliiiive
<bigcalm> mgdm: did you get my messages?
<eoned> ali1234, ?
<eoned> it's me with the vlc now i'm in Xchat.
<ali1234> eoned: transcoding always takes a lot of cpu
<ali1234> i suspect what is actually required is resizing the frame
<eoned> what about raw data?
<ali1234> "[mpeg4 @ 0x7f7bcc0c3540] Width/height/bit depth/chroma idc changing with threads is not implemented. Update your Libav version to the newest one from Git. If the problem still occurs, it means that your file has a feature which has not been implemented."
<mgdm> bigcalm: I did - no worries
<eoned> ali1234, how i can check it?
<ali1234> check what?
<ali1234> cvlc v4l2:///dev/video0 --sout '#transcode{vcodec=mp2v}:udp{mux=ts,dst=239.0.0.1,port=1234}'
<ali1234> this works, but cannot transcode in real time
<ali1234> it's not bad though
<eoned> it's not have to be real time - but i dont want like groing lag after few minates..
<ali1234> actually it's not using much cpu at all
<ali1234> it just has a few seconds of buffering
<eoned> in mplayer i get nothing and i get this error "Stream not seekable!"
<ali1234> well streams aren't
<ali1234> by definition
<ali1234> this actually works pretty well
<eoned> but with this command in vlc i i get something!!
<eoned> vlc -vvv udp://@239.0.0.1:1234
<eoned> with about 3-5 sec delay..
<eoned> but very pixeleted
<ali1234> mplayer will play it eventually too once it receive enough of the stream to fill the buffer
<ali1234> you can change transcoding parameters like this:
<ali1234> cvlc v4l2:///dev/video0 --sout '#transcode{vcodec=mp1v,vb=800}:udp{mux=ts,dst=239.0.0.1,port=1234}'
<ali1234> vb=800 to set video bitrate
<ali1234> the latency is on client end, it buffers the stream
<eoned> now how i can make a 10 sec delay?
<eoned> so when i save the stream i get 10 sec from the past..
<ali1234> i have no idea how to do that, sorry
<eoned> mmm
<eoned> ali1234, but thank you a-loooot!
<eoned> it's the first time that i have udp stream work on linux!!
<eoned> thank you  -  thank you  -  thank you
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<brobostigon> night daftykins
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-26
<daftykins> this is great
<daftykins> a mates in Tokyo at the moment...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mg08pjbrxpcx5zx/2014-05-17%2014.57.56.jpg
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> meep
<DJones> 9Hmmh, Sky multiroom boxes come in handy when you're planning on going away in a caravan & have a portable dish
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<mapps> yay
<mapps> morning
<mapps> 5955416	2014-05-26 13:27:11	Withdraw		*2001	Â£1,427.00
<mapps> :D
<mapps> finally had a winning bet at winner.com
<penguin42> :what was that on?
<shauno> I've just found the most mindbending bug in one of our systems :/
<penguin42> it's good when you find them :-)
<shauno> we have a thing where when a customer's password is sent back to them in a webpage, it's sent as *******.  and then when we get the form back, if the content isn't ******'s, they've changed their password and we update
<shauno> that way the form element looks like it has something in it, but isn't anything revealing
<shauno> soooo today I've found a customer who used the password '*****' and caused the universe to implode
<penguin42> but sometimes the *'s get expanded/changed?
<penguin42> hahahaha
<penguin42> shauno: Rule 58: Ensure special values are always special
<mapps> :Dpenguin42 okc thunder last night
<mapps> :D
<mapps> just glad ive got some yen now
 * penguin42 hasn't got a clue what okc thunder is
<mapps> oklahoma city thunder - nba
<penguin42> ah
<mapps> my deposits from the 23rd - now are quite a lot though so its not as impressive as it sounds ....like Â£1080
<mapps> just went through them
<penguin42> ah, so you bet over 1K ?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> :)
<penguin42> over what period?
<penguin42> and if you keep going at the same rate would you be winning or losing?
<mapps> er
<mapps> not sure penguin42
<mapps> at least its not raining today
<penguin42> right, nicely contained scan order for bits
<mapps> what you order
<penguin42> oh just bits; hard drive (an SSD failed yesterday), couple of small uSD cards, usb-sata caddy (see hard drive) a mouse and a long cat5e cable
<foobarry> what are the chances someone will want my lovely quintrix CRT for free?
<foobarry> feels wrong to take it to the tip
<Myrtti> zero to none
<foobarry> possibly in the negative territory as i can't even get help to lift it out of the house :D
<jussi> foobarry: find a computer museum :D
<foobarry> its a lovely telly
<foobarry> :)
<foobarry> i cannot deploy my new one yet due to a case of missing screws for the stand :(
<foobarry> anyone currentyl got a synology nas?
<foobarry> thinkn it will be my next tech purchase if i can release funds
<penguin42> foobarry: I have a similar problem with my TV
<foobarry> :( penguin42
<foobarry> cant workout what screws i need
<foobarry> #or where to find them
<foobarry> M6 screws allegedly
<penguin42> those are pretty common aren't they ?
<penguin42> foobarry: My TV is a 32" tosh - and the challenge would be getting it down the stairs
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: pick up TV... move to top of stairs... DROP!  job done!
<diddledan> what a load of tosh
<foobarry> mine is a panasonic 32incher, i carried it from somebodys flat to the car. i nearly died twice
<mapps> yea it sucks chucking stuff away foobarry
<foobarry> i have 2 kids so finding time to do *anything* sucks
<foobarry> unless i can do it cheaply from my armchair
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh it's the 'pick up TV' bit that's the problem
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: How are the bionics?
<mapps> i hate chucking stuff
<mapps> really hate it
<foobarry> my car is only 20 yds from the telly so i'll get a mate to lift it to the car on a convenient day
<foobarry> and then it will stay in the car for a week until the dump is open
<foobarry> and i am not working
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no prob - get someone else to do it - do a Huckleberry Finn on them... tell them it's fun
<penguin42> mapps: Yeh I mean it's still working so I'm not desperate to get rid of this TV, but these flat panels keep looking at me whenever I go in Dixons
<mapps> exactly
<mapps> my dad chucked out a perfectly fine 32inch tv..annoyed me
<mapps> just because it was crt
<mapps> :(
<diddledan> dixons still exist?
<mapps> ya
<foobarry> dixoncurrypcworldphonewarehouse?
<diddledan> I thought they closed all the dixons in favour of currys and pcworld combos
<mapps> yea same thing tho aint it
<diddledan> same company, different emphasis
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes I'm sorry, I mean currys.digital or whatever the highstreet ones are
<SuperEngineer> or do what I did when I eventually went for an upgrade [not long ago], remove guilt by moving old tv to bedroom
<SuperEngineer> ...one day I might even plug it in ;)
<penguin42> out of sight out of mind?
<mapps> :D
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:  ... & the bionics are recovering nicely.  Thanks for asking.
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: out of sight except for when too tired to realise... works for me ;)
<foobarry> paul mcgann is reading my sons audio book. he has the most dour voice known to man
<foobarry> so now you're all back into life, any synology users?
<SuperEngineer> what's a "synology user" - is that slang for someone addicted to a drug I missed in my yoof?
 * SuperEngineer phones evil dealer - asks for some synology
<diddledan> quote: "French beekeepers were shocked to find their bees had produced a supply of thick, blue honey. Turns out the bees had been feeding on the colourful shells of M&Ms - a Mars processing plant sat just 4 km away."
<diddledan> and the image to go with: https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/1798691_837779872909692_1973397425184143260_n.jpg
<Myrtti> I just love the Asian supermarket / cash and carry we have relatively close
<Myrtti> stocked up on dumplings and my favourite noodles again
 * SuperEngineer puts phone down having been sworn at by evil dealer - picks it up again and suggests diddledan could well be a customer!
<Myrtti> they even had durian ice lollies but we didn't venture there
<penguin42> diddledan: Nice!
<foobarry> obligatory overprocesssed holiday pic http://i.imgur.com/zb1ahTW.jpg
<penguin42> diddledan: http://www.ediblegeography.com/crispy-wings/   is from a bunch of guys who were tracking some birds and couldn't figure out why they were going to one particular town -  a crisp factory
<penguin42> foobarry: Yeh the sky looks interesting
<foobarry> because cornwall and because tonemapping
<foobarry> cornish clouds are good for god rays.
<diddledan> foobarry, you need to do some HDR
<foobarry> i did already :S
<diddledan> heh.. ok :-p
<foobarry> there were 4 exposures , hence the ghosting
<diddledan> gotcha
<foobarry> i have a proper hdr one with no tonemap fakery
<diddledan> what explains how the wall and tree are so well defined
<diddledan> that*
<foobarry> designed more for viewing on phones etc..it wouldn't stand up to much scrutiny
<diddledan> *want* http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/monitors/28inchplusmonitors/29ub65-p.html
<diddledan> that would improve my photo viewing
<daftykins> pff who looks at photos ;)
<daftykins> omw that's cheap now
<daftykins> i paid like Â£360-400 each for my Dell 2408's back in the day
<daftykins> they're still great, with every input under the sun, but CCFL based
<penguin42> there are some 4k's now for 499
<daftykins> day-um
<daftykins> reminds me, i've been asked to find an 80" TV
<diddledan> bloomin nora
<diddledan> that's hooge
<daftykins> it's a tough one though - feels a bit late in the day to be buying just a 1080p panel of said size, yet there won't be any source nor content for 4K
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: have they got a ruler? If not, I've got an 80" TV for sale ;)
<foobarry> clambering over these rocks with my 4yr old was fun http://i.imgur.com/a43bxuu.jpg
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> it'd replace a plasma 65"
<daftykins> which is insanely heavy
<foobarry> which uses more energy, a 32 inch plsma, lcd or crt
<foobarry> when being watched
<diddledan> crt I would thing
<diddledan> k
<diddledan> then plasma a close second
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: depends which one you plug in ;)
<diddledan> a crt makes all sorts of extra goodness such as x-rays
<diddledan> so needs moar powah
<SuperEngineer> [any TV can be "watched" - it's watching programmes that loused up your electic bill
 * SuperEngineer returns form bedroom - watched the tv for a while - it didn't move
<SuperEngineer> *from
<penguin42> well, apparently my 32" Tosh takes 95W
<diddledan> I think it's very impolite to use that term
<diddledan> I prefer "pardon" to "watt"
<penguin42> if you say watt again.....
<diddledan> watt?
<diddledan> I mean pardon?
<penguin42> I dare you....
<bigcalm> I double dare you
<penguin42> modern 32" Tosh LCD 53W - so not a vast difference
 * SuperEngineer checks TV paperwork to see the "excuse me" useage
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, what about the "I'm sorry to bother you" scale?
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: ah - that was hidden at the back of the manual - got it now
<SuperEngineer> ..right next next to it's politeness rating...
<SuperEngineer> [& finds it measured with "Favourable Amperage Reality Testings"]
 * penguin42 can't find the power consumption of a plasma
<diddledan> aah the FART emissions test
<SuperEngineer> aw cumon!... took me bleedin' ages to work that one out!
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I don't get why analogue vga signalling is still considered important enough to put on every monitor
<diddledan> the digital ones are a pot-shot as to which are supported on any particular monitor but analogue vga is always there?!
<penguin42> to plug PCs into
<penguin42> diddledan: They might get some signage uses as well, but you would have thought it would simplify the hardware if they got rid of all analog inputs
<diddledan> [18:34:11]  <penguin42>	 to plug PCs into <-- considering that's what a monitor usually has plugged into it then, yeah
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - I wondered that spare monitor cable forced into the printer port didn't work!
<penguin42> diddledan: I do have my mum running her PC on a TV
<diddledan> penguin42, aye but I'm not talking about plugging a computer into a tv, I'm talking about plugging it into a monitor. monitors are specifically designed for computers to plug into them
<SuperEngineer> Boasting here... main monitor plugged to graphics card DVI socket, TV plugged to HDMI, old vga monitor [used for slideshow of photos] plugged to vga monitor of same graphcs card!
<diddledan> I fail to understand the reasoning that VGA is still important to include everywhere
<penguin42> diddledan: OK ok but I do use VGA still - on my work laptop
<penguin42> diddledan: There's still too much randomness about what you will find on laptops
 * SuperEngineer hugs his graphics card & vga monitor - and covers vga's ears from diddledan's insults
<diddledan> I can understand a few monitors including vga for backward compatibility, but I don't get why every. damned. single. monitor. everywhere. has to include vga
<penguin42> except Macs, where you can be sure you'll have nothing useful
<penguin42> hmm are there any other EU news sites in English - I'm curious what they make of it
<SuperEngineer> because out there in the big wide business world - VGA is still commonly used perhaps
<SuperEngineer> Breaking news - all votes in euro elections invalidated - Jono Bacon chosen to stand as "the voice of sanity" instead.
<diddledan> well done, jono
<directhex> diddledan, 100% of laptops have VGA, since 100% of projectors have VGA
<daftykins> any of you gents dealt with some of the more messy EFI installs? :)
<daftykins> a mates helping someone with their win8 laptop
<daftykins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7523209/
<daftykins> ubuntu's been installed via CSM (so legacy boot) into the tail end of the disk, then boot-repair was used to point to sda2 as the EFI partition (which it is)
<daftykins> but upon changing 'BIOS' back to EFI instead of CSM, apparently only Windows boots still
<directhex> so what's the intention?
<daftykins> to have a GRUB menu for a choice between EFI booting both 8 and ubuntu ideally
<directhex> EFI boots "applications" - either any application registered with the firmware, or the application in a default path on a drive with a supported filesystem
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI#Converting_Ubuntu_into_EFI_or_Legacy_mode
<directhex> if ubuntu was installed as BIOS, i doubt grub is registered in the firmware
<daftykins> he followed that to try and turn the CSM install into EFI mode
<daftykins> yeah, would it actually need to be installed via some means, like the grub-efi package installed?
<directhex> can i ask why he did this ass-backwards?
<daftykins> seems he couldn't get this Toshiba booting his USB flash drive in EFI mode
<directhex> you can only register an EFI application when booted into an EFI OS
<daftykins> i was thinking that the above steps are all well and good - but they don't actually do anything to *put* GRUB onto the EFI partition
<directhex> also that
<penguin42> I thought there was some magic to run under windows to fix something
<daftykins> the disk is so damned messy from one ugly factory install that i'm tempted to suggest nuking the disk and starting with a fresh 8 install ;)
<daftykins> directhex: is that guide spreading lies then? since it claims you can turn it into an EFI install from outside
<directhex> daftykins, you need to be booted into EFI ubuntu to make EFI ubuntu bootable. it is impossible to modify EFI variables when booted via BIOS
<popey> Evening slackers.
<daftykins> hi popey o/
<daftykins> how do?
<popey> Tickety boo.
<popey> Finally recovered from a busy week.
<daftykins> directhex: ok, sounds like they depend upon booting a flash drive as EFI to sort out the install there
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/tnfemv330crx2w9/AAAC4ua2eqKCbNWxYEY3uPCYa#/
<daftykins> he's also getting this right now
<directhex> daftykins, bingo
<daftykins> this is upon closing out of boot-repair
<directhex> yikes
<directhex> boot-repair looks like total garbage
<daftykins> as does that guide if it thinks you can convert an install solely by running it to do that much
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/340zvhvnt8tvzeu/AABGIXBZSWiM0b6PYBCM_Jq3a#lh:1-2014-05-27%2003.37.44.jpg
<daftykins> that was also a key image of just a moment ago
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> now it's doing things
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8q94fx6t1vs76nj/AADQaJ4BPga43LuT4Z3WA59Ia
<daftykins> hah, boot-repair crashed somewhere along the process
<directhex> <directhex> boot-repair looks like total garbage
<daftykins> it looks like what it's trying to do goes against your above statement though
<daftykins> so which is wrong? :>
<directhex> ultimately what it's trying to do won't work unless efivars is mounted
<directhex> well... unless it overwrites bootx64.efi on the efi partition
<daftykins> yeah it appears to rename the Windows one
<daftykins> so i imagine it's replacing it with another
<directhex> ._.
<daftykins> i think it's disk nuking time :D
<directhex> total lunar sea.
<daftykins> yeah? well it's not gonna do anything itself
<directhex> blurg @ EU votes
<daftykins> i'm not in the EU
<brunogirin> directhex: being a Frenchman living in the UK, I did double bleuaarrgghhh last night
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> evening
<directhex> brunogirin, the FN's success is far worse than UKIP
<brunogirin> directhex: I know :-(
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-27
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<Myrtti> moin
<mapps> morning Myrtti / MooDoo
<mapps> 24 was good;D
<MooDoo> not watched it.
<ujjain> are 2.0 and 1.0 amps specs of the usb-cable or the usb-to-mains adaptor?
<ging> is there a trick to scping files onto a machine in places where you need sudo to access and there's no root user?
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> Hello
<bashrc> morning
<Guest83481> Good morning all; happy Tuesday and happy Sun Screen Day! :-D
<foobarry> Guest83481= jamestait
<Guest83481> Indeed.
<foobarry> wiped my old hp touchpad and got android 4.4.2 on it \o/
<JamesTait> And I have fat fingers this morning. :(
<foobarry> that little tablet still rocks
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bashrc> what about cyanogenmod?
<bashrc> so, is the ubuntu/android hybrid phone thingy really dead?
<bashrc> the crossover desktop seemed like a good idea
<bigcalm> No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'
<bashrc> oh
<Myrtti> pining for the fjords
<ujjain> so anybody knows if there are also cheaper LPI exams? 124pound is steep
<MooDoo> ujjain: no 124pounds is correct :( I know I looked into it as well
<ujjain> in Holland I paid 62 pound, there were discount exams
<ujjain> community exams
<MooDoo> yeah looked around couldn't find them any cheaper in this country
<popey> Do people actually care about LPIC?
<bashrc> I don't.  what is it?
<foobarry> i care about RHCE
<foobarry> as it shows some level of competence
<MooDoo> no I've leart from research hardly anyone knows what it is, if you want a cert for career purposes then you should look at the RHEL exams
<MooDoo> bashrc: Linux professional institute exams
<bashrc> ah, I didn't know they existed, so yes I really don't care about LPIC
<shauno> that's exactly why people prefer rhce, even if they're not going for redhat platforms.  if no-one recognises lpic, it holds no value
<foobarry> is lpic practical?
<foobarry> don't think so
<shauno> yeah I don't believe so either.  it's done by those Vue centers, so it's just x minutes infront of a multiple choice
<MooDoo> I was going to do it, just for another cert, but I'm putting it on hold in favour of the rhcsa
<bashrc> formal training I think can be useful, but probably more effort needs to be put into publicising these certifications and what they mean, otherwise they're useless for making judgements about anyone's skills
<foobarry> i also consider whether a robot can do it or not
<foobarry> i took the vmware course but skipped the exam as it was useless
<ujjain> As long as you pay Â£1,500 or more into your account each calendar month, we'll waive the Â£5 Club Lloyds monthly fee < This refers to your salary or expenditures?
<foobarry> "into"
<foobarry> your income paid into the account
<foobarry> almost made it to Â£40 in amazon vouchers from doing surveys \o/
<ujjain> ah ok, thanks foobarry
<ujjain> foobarry, wow, nice, amazon surveys?
<popey> reminds me, I got 20 quid amazon voucher this week
<popey> pressie time!
 * popey checks his wishlist
<popey> mmmmm http://www.amazon.co.uk/Franks-RedHot-Original-Cayenne-Pepper/dp/B002L639UY
<popey> candidate
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Looks nice. Have you tried it before?
<popey> yes
<popey> its what they use on buffallo wings in the us traditionally
<popey> not especially spicy, but quite piquant
<foobarry> ujjain: no, other general surveys. can send u a link if u like
<ujjain> foobarry, sure
<popey> foobarry: I'd be up for that too â»
<foobarry> you need spare time to do them but i'e earned ~60 over last few months
<foobarry> can u PM me your email address please and i'll refer you
<foobarry> they are often surveys about beer, smartphones, travel and ISPs
<ujjain> bank accounts are complex, thinking about getting a free paid account, but it says nothign about early cancelation
<foobarry> ujjain: popey did you want me to send you signup links to the survey stuffs? i need your emails
<foobarry> i have a cheeky mouse in our house. cannot get rid of it.
<dwatkins> I've had a lot of mice in my flat over the last 3 years.
<dwatkins> foobarry: try these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trixie-Mouse-Trap-4-5-17/dp/B000WFI866/
<foobarry> i have a similar one
<foobarry> maybe the mouse is gone now
<awilkins> Isn't it illegal to catch & release vermin?
<dwatkins> I find they tend to use them when I'm on holiday, unfortunately.
<dwatkins> it is? in that case, I've broken the law 3 times.
<awilkins> As I recall when I had squirrels and researched it you have to destroy them
<foobarry> is it illegal to club a mouse over the head on the field?
<awilkins> Don't think so
<foobarry> squirrels are different
<dwatkins> I let them go in the park.
<foobarry> grey squirrels are not english
<awilkins> I headclubbed them
<foobarry> my dog despatches them
<foobarry> sometihng about indiginous species
<dwatkins> "Under the WCA there is no prohibition on the release of other species of rats or mice which are ordinarily resident in GB."
<awilkins> I quite liked the idea of the ratzapper 2000
<dwatkins> section 6.3.1 of http://www.ufaw.org.uk/rodents.php
<awilkins> It's like that live trap, only incorporates a pair of high tension metal plates and a battery power source
<awilkins> Both fatal AND humane.
<awilkins> But I couldn't source one in this country
<foobarry> also joined a samsung roundtable for discussion about their products. pretty good idea tbh
<diddledan> foobarry, do you get freebies? :-p
<dogmatic69> I am on a windows box using cygwin to ssh into a linux box, if I paste something longer than 20 chars it crashes the cygwin terminal. Any ideas?
<dogmatic69> its only on some ssh connections, not all so its not cygwin I dont think...
<foobarry> diddledan: like 4k tellies?
<diddledan> foobarry, yeah, that'ld be a good start
<foobarry> more like $5 vouchers for contribution, but its a new thing so we'll see.
<diddledan> :-(
<foobarry> generally the discussion is around large appliances , tv , washing machine, etc
<foobarry> so you can contribute by suggesting smart washing machines that give statistics on your washes etc
<diddledan> "you have washed 6 unpaired socks in the last month"
<diddledan> my favourite bash feature that I discovered a while ago? the CDPATH variable
<foobarry> washing machine sock monster has eaten 4 pairs
<diddledan> it's awesome
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> we also have a carpet monster
<foobarry> eats small airfix parts
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7529678/ <-- my CDPATH variable - allows me to `cd` into directories without remembering exactly where they're located - e.g. `cd passwords` will actually cd to /Users/dllewellyn/bang/passwords no matter where I am in the hierarchy
<diddledan> the var works similarly to $PATH
<awilkins> Neato
 * awilkins makes a mental chalkboard note
<foobarry> it can be dangerous tho
<diddledan> my paste above says that cd will first search the current directory (.) then check /data followed by /Users/dllewellyn/bang and finally ~
<foobarry> encourages sloppiness versus precision
<diddledan> it may encourage sloppiness but it speeds up getting to my work folders by orders of magnitude
<diddledan> cd ..
<diddledan> ls
<diddledan> cd ..
<diddledan> ls
<diddledan> etc.
<foobarry> you can also do cd $WORK
<foobarry> cd $DATA
<foobarry> enjoying my new desert camo trousers for summer http://www.thebunkerwarehouse.co.uk/trousers/82-desert-camo-trousers.html
<diddledan> but then I'd have to remember ahead of time which folder it's in
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Do you live in a desert?
<foobarry> a cultural desert
<diddledan> .. and if I knew ahead of time which folder it was in I can go there directly without a $variable
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
<foobarry> i'll get booted out of the sandpit at the kids playground
<foobarry> good price for nice trousers though
<foobarry> really comfy
<ujjain> first level of theatre is front row or circle (upstairs)?
<ujjain> there are 2 times b7 in the seating chart, very weird.
<mapps> hey all
<SuperMatt> y'ello
<SuperMatt> mapps: have any trouble getting around london on sunday?
<mapps> fell asleep during crisis now ive gotta rewatch
<mapps> nop
<mapps> tempted to watch 24 again..last 2 eps have been so good
<diddledan> hmm. truecrypt is playing silly burgers
<SuperMatt> oh
<diddledan> giving me "bad file descriptor" after attempting sudoish auth
<mapps> :(
<foobarry> i've never seen one minute of 24
<foobarry> feel like my life is 2 weeks longer than a lot of people
<mapps> :(
<bigcalm> I keep trying to copy/paste text from OneNote running on a Windows machine into Chromium running on my desktop, linked via Synergy. And I keep forgetting that trying to do so freezes Chromium
<bigcalm> Damn you technology
<shauno> diddledan: you can totally abuse cdpath by making a ~/.bookmarks folder, sticking it in your cdpath, and symlinking common destinations into it ;)
<awilkins> bigcalm, Which version of Synergy#?
<bigcalm> 2
<awilkins> I thought there was only 1.5?
<bigcalm> I donated, so use their latest version
<awilkins> I donated at some point..
<bigcalm> Ah, it used to be called Synergy2
<bigcalm> Yes, 1.5.0 from http://synergy-project.org/download/
<awilkins> Ah, likewise
<bigcalm> Some programs on my desktop just do not seem to cope with pasting from the buffer
<diddledan> synergy is pretty decent
<diddledan> I donated to them, too
<awilkins> I find sometimes you have to kill rdpclip.exe
<awilkins> But that's Windows / Office I think
<bigcalm> Anybody here used Docker or LXC?
<SirMarky> Hello!  Can anyone help me with a question about upnp support and Ubuntu?
<SirMarky> <tumbleweed rolls past.....>
<Myrtti> http://www.wimp.com/trotsound/
<Myrtti> or http://www.trotify.com/
<mapps> this non stop is quite cool
<diddledan> discovered a new commandline tool - ncdu
<diddledan> gives a breakdown of where your free hdd space is gone
<diddledan> I found I had nearly 20GB in an old home folder that I'd not cleared away
<moreati> diddledan: Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_Usage_Analyzer
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-28
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey MooDoo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<MooDoo> howdy mapps brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/eq2agHNrWye :-|
<awilkins> Bread machine! Compile your own bread from source!
<awilkins> Sadly, this takes 2-3 hours
<awilkins> The guy who invents the bread machine with integral time machine that takes it back in time just in time to have the loaf ready would make a mint
<Myrtti> the main problem is the lack of hot water
<Myrtti> can't start baking bread and not be able to wash my hands properly
<DJones> awilkins: Quick setting on bread machine gives passable bread in an hour for me
<Myrtti> I'm wondering what kitchen gadgets I could forgo for getting a bread machine
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bread makers rock. Really.
<awilkins> I use mine as a "dough maker"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not only do they produce lovely bread whilst I am asleep, they also make great Pizza dough in 45 minutes (that also works really well for dough-balls and making other roll-type products) & Naan bread dough that's proved in ~2hrs
<DJones> Myrtti: If you're going to drop a kichen gadget in favour of a bread maker, I'd forget about a food processor, anyone I know with one gets one with all the attachments and maybe uses it once a year
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: the word on the street is, though, that they don't make passable proper Finnish rye
<Myrtti> DJones: I broke ours a year ago when I was trying to blitz dry onion skins I had soaked for a few days with it :-|
<DJones> Myrtti: Out of interest, what would you have used the blitzed onion skins for?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Senior Health & Fitness Day! :-D
<Myrtti> yarn dyeing, of course. https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/sets/72157632822139010/
<DJones> Myrtti: Ah, didn't think of that, I was trying to think of a food recipe
<DJones> What lovely road maintenance and traffic management planning by the highways agency, causing 3 hour minimum delays
<awilkins> Hooray!
<awilkins> Hope they are at least fixing some potholes
<DJones> I think major resurfacing on a section of road that didn't have pothole
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<DJones> Heh, poor kitty https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=568191693297174&set=vb.196251357157878&type=2&theater
<foobarry> Myrtti: my wife was dying wool the other day. stankt he house out
<davmor2> Awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wByOv2sUZ-c
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: hey dude you having a better day today?
<bigcalm> davmor2: how sweet
<davmor2> bigcalm: why would you not smile at a ticklish penguin
<popey> DJones: I use my food mixer a fair amount â»
<DJones> hmmh, popey is Mary Berry....
<popey> made a recipe that was on the front page of reddit last night
<popey> http://theculinaryrecipes.com/double-crunch-honey-garlic-chicken-breasts/
<popey> was yummy
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes thanks :D
<MooDoo> this evening I shall be making pork and bulghar stuffed peppers
<DJones> Looks nice, but honey is too sweet for me, I'd end up being ill with that
 * MooDoo can't stand honey
<DJones> I also have a rule about not eating anything produced by rubbing legs together
<popey> wierdos
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> garlic and honey are made for eachother
<bigcalm> DJones: rubbing legs together?
<DJones> bigcalm: Honey & bee's
<bigcalm> Heh, fair enough
<Myrtti> we watched the whole series of The Wonder of Bees with Martha Kearney few weeks ago. It was amazing
<Myrtti> even started wondering should we get a hive if we get a bigger house with a bigger garden
<DJones> If I had a bigger garden, I'd get chickens
<Myrtti> that too
<Myrtti> chicken and bees
<awilkins> It's not the rubbing legs together that's the gross bit about honeyu
<awilkins> It's the multi-bee bulimia party involved in processing it
<bigcalm> o.O
<Myrtti> I'm personally dreaming of this hand mixer http://www.braunhousehold.com/global/all-products/food-preparation/hand-mixers/multiquick-system-hand-mixer-m1070-6-in-1-0x81260901
<Myrtti> bees knees, as they say
<awilkins> And not the bees "blees" : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/bee-blee.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> We bought one of these recently - is very good IMHO: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrew-James-Powerful-Processor-Attachment/dp/B0051U27RI
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Indeed. Eating the morning porridge is always a bit weird when one remembers they are eating bee barf drizzles on heated bovine lacations thickend with oat starch.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quite heavy but that's fine by me.
<awilkins> Mother has Grandmothers original Kenwood Chef
<awilkins> Factory Reconditioned
<bigcalm> Audio in left headphone started to deteriorate. Thought that my hearing was going. Turns out to be track I was listening to. Hearing still feels funny though
<awilkins> Built like a Soviet Tank
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, I bought the older model of the Braun multimix years ago when I didn't have a Kenwood Chef. Now I've got my mum's old one and I suppose I wouldn't necessarily need a hand mixer with the dough hooks anymore...
<Myrtti> but yeah, need to get it looked at, one of the attachment ports is gone
<Myrtti> otherwise works like a charm
<ali1234> we've got bees in the roof
<ali1234> should probably do something about that
<Gargoyle> Can anyone offer any advice/mentoring on getting involved in helping to maintain a ppa ?
<MooDoo> Gargoyle: do you have one now?
<jussi> Gargoyle: If you have an intrerest, the kubuntu team runs several PPA's that always neeed more contributors, feel free to drop into #kubuntu-devel
<MooDoo> have you seen this? - http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/other-forms-of-submitting-apps/ppa/
<Gargoyle> I was thinking one of the ubuntu ones. Specifically hadoop
<MooDoo> Gargoyle: https://launchpad.net/~hadoop-ubuntu/+archive/dev
<MooDoo> Gargoyle: you can contact them here if it's what you're after lol - https://launchpad.net/~hadoop-ubuntu
<Gargoyle> MooDoo: Yeah, I've fired off an email to the list. Hopefully with some guidance I can help get that PPA updated to a newer version of hadoop
<MooDoo> Gargoyle: brill :D
<mapps> hey all
<MooDoo> howdy mapps
 * MartijnVdS waves as well
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<MooDoo> wtf - http://action.sumofus.org/a/Facebook-app-taps-phones/?sub=fb sigh
<bigcalm> Another reason why I don't use the app :)
<mapps> i dont have a facebook ac
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<mapps> too time consuming
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha... Look who appears on the first page of this Google search for Sriracha Sauce: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Sri+Racha+sauce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
<shauno> the oatmeal?
<bigcalm> That may be because it's linking results from our G+ accounts
<bigcalm> shauno: popey
<Myrtti> The Oatmeal
<shauno> that's why I was curious.  I don't see anyone from here in the results
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've run out :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh you don't see popey at the bottom?
<bigcalm> McDonalds should have Sriracha sauce as an option. I ...
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/.../Sbq2NntJ...
<bigcalm> Alan Pope
<bigcalm> 23 Sep 2012 - McDonalds should have Sriracha sauce as an option. I might take some with me next time I go. Sriracha makes everything better
<Myrtti> no, if you search in porn mode
<bigcalm> !pastebin | bigcalm
<lubotu3> bigcalm, please see my private message
<bigcalm> !pastebin > bigcalm
<bigcalm> Oh, > isn't a thing
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNL8j0jkHeg !
<shauno> hm, interesting
<shauno> I made bacon-choc-chip once.  that went well
<bigcalm> perr14 - perth?
<DJones> Heh, email received asking me to "Download file at google disk drive service - dropbox" with a link to a dropbox stored file....Yeah, how daft do they think I am
<MartijnVdS> ...
<bigcalm> I'd download it just to then pick through the payload
<DJones> That would mean me wasting time messing about with it
<bigcalm> Wow. OSN just told me that my mouse's battery is low at 25% remaining
<bigcalm> That's cool!
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Cool. Which mouse? And what doo-mahicky you using to get the reading?
<MartijnVdS> OSN?
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: On Screen Notification
<DJones> TwistedLucidity: Its default in Ubuntu, works for me with MS & cheap own brand mice
<TwistedLucidity> Hmmm...using a Logitech unit, never seen any setting to get a report on battery health
<MartijnVdS> ah.. I thought it was a typo :)
<DJones> Trying to think back to when I first saw the battery notification, think it was 13.04 or 13.10
<TwistedLucidity> I'm on 14.04 but using KDE; it may not have it
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: I didn't set it up to do this, it just worked out of the box. Mouse is Logitech M570
<DJones> Looks like 13.10
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: I'm using Unity in 14.04
<DJones> bigcalm: Have you noticed this before on the power management page http://i.stack.imgur.com/q28iW.png
<bigcalm> DJones: rarely look at that screen. But the 'Wireless mouse' section appears in it for me :)
<DJones> bigcalm: I think it only came in from 13.10
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> It's a cool thing though
<bigcalm> I just tried to close the 'Power' window within your screenshot
 * bigcalm sighs
<TwistedLucidity> Ooo....found the lock key activation/deactiviation notifications though. That'll be handy on the ThinkPad which has no LEDs.
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: where is that setting, keyboard?
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I'm using KDE
<bigcalm> Ah
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep
<TwistedLucidity> I'm using UPower 0.9.23, so I should be able to see the Logitech guff....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you might want to look at Solaar much nicer for Logitech wireless stuff
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Thanks
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/screenshots-desktop/solaar.png clicking on each gives you a nice overview and you get an indicator that displays the lowest battery level
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Seems to have dependencies on WINE and Mono. Will check it out.
<dogmatic69> anyone know why I cant paste more than 20 char over ssh?
<dogmatic69> hangs the session
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: are you looking from source or ppa the ubuntu build has the following http://paste.ubuntu.com/7536516/
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: 'buntu PPA.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: https://launchpad.net/~daniel.pavel/+archive/solaar
<TwistedLucidity> That's the one
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: thats the one I have installed and those are the deps it might be that the original version did while he figured out stuff
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure, just checked what it needed and a whole slew of WINE 1.6 etc came up.
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
 * davmor2 grabs his big proddy stick and wallops czajkowski with it, long time no see how's life czajkowski 
<czajkowski> davmor2: ouchies!!!!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oh come on matchsticks taped together don't hurt that much :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's life?
<czajkowski> busy and good
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski fight......
<MooDoo> wow where has today gone, it's almost time to go home.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: you have short days :(
<MooDoo> bigcalm: 7 - 3:30
<bigcalm> MooDoo: you have poop hours :(
<MooDoo> bigcalm: my choice
<bigcalm> :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: with two young kids, it's always been easy for me to get up at early [5:30]
<bigcalm> Working from home, I struggle to get out of bed before 8.55am
<MooDoo> bigcalm: wish I could work from home, would be easier lol
<bigcalm> Children would be the death of me
<davmor2> bigcalm: your kids would be, but that would be because they would be psycho axe wielding maniacs ;)
<bigcalm> I'd better continue to not have children then :D
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<SuperMatt> god damn, all I want to do is install an arch container in LXC, but it seems near impossible
<SuperMatt> because you already need pacman installed
<SuperMatt> oh well
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I thought there was an arch build available maybe I'm wrong
<davmor2> SuperMatt: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Linux_Containers this might help
<SuperMatt> davmor2: there is a build, but it uses pacman and pacstrap to do a lot of the work
<Gargoyle> I'm trying to get hadoop up and running on 12.04, and there's a page on the hadoop site which says "Check that there isn't an entry for your hostname mapped to 127.0.0.1 or 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts (Ubuntu is notorious for this)"
<Gargoyle> How should the hostname be correctly configured? Just to the machines real IP ?
<bigcalm> Gargoyle: if 127.0.x.y is in /etc/hosts and not pointing at localhost, then it can be safely removed
<Gargoyle> bigcalm: So the 127.0.1.1 can just be removed, and the 127.0.0.1 should only point to localhost and not my.domain.name
<daftykins> sounds fine
<daftykins> keep a backup of hosts as-is
<bigcalm> !backup
<lubotu3> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
<bigcalm> Okay, maybe not that level of backup :)
<bigcalm> sudo cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts.dist
<Gargoyle> I think it's actually vagrant adding the extra hostnames to the 127* records
<bigcalm> That seems likely
<bigcalm> I have this in one of my vagrant machines' /etc/hosts files
<bigcalm> 127.0.1.1 ep-web-dev ep-web-dev
<daftykins> 127.0.1.1 tends to be dnsmasq too
<daftykins> likely present in your resolv.conf
<popey> purged resolvconf
<popey> silly software
<daftykins> manual is definitely far nicer
<Azelphur> Anyone have any suggestions on what I should get wifi wise for a small cafe?
<ali1234> a cup of tea?
<ali1234> bacon sandwich?
<ali1234> you're going to want something you can lock down. i heard draytek are good for that
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't really need locking down, atm they are just using a very typical plusnet home ADSL setup
<Azelphur> and they just have wifi codes on the wall, they aren't too concerned with people standing outside and using it
<DJones> Azelphur: "typical home ADSL setup" ? Maybe they need to think about a business setup rather than a home setup
<Azelphur> DJones: well mostly they just need a not shit router, it actually works somewhat ok now, they just need a bit better range and something that won't fall over with too many clients connected to it
<Azelphur> it's not an internet cafe, just a cafe that has wifi
<DJones> Yes, but its still a business thats giving wifi out, that could cause problems trying to use a home network provider, just in terms  of using a home network for a business
<Azelphur> DJones: yea, I've already told them they need to get off that ADSL connection, hoping they can get fibre but it's a bit up in the air since the cafe is in a strange location
<DJones> I'm just thinking in terms of protecting the owner if something dodgy happens or the service got abuses
<Azelphur> DJones: that's a good point, I suppose I should make sure they are on plusnet business not home
<DJones> At the end of the day, the owner is responsible, but at least being able to show its a business account rather than a personal account will probably offer a bit more protection
<ali1234> oh, i got a helpouts invite
<ali1234> i don't even remember asking for one
<DJones> Wasn;t that something MooDoo was involved in, ubuntu helpouts ?
<DJones> Maybe from  that
<ali1234> yeah... that was ages ago
<DJones> Can't be that long, my memory of it hasn't faded :)
<daftykins> meatspace or online?
<Azelphur> but yea, we seem to have drifted over the original question, router suggestions?
<Azelphur> I was thinking RT-N16 with OpenWRT
<daftykins> Azelphur: got a link for that one?
<Azelphur> daftykins: the RT-N16?
<daftykins> yes sir
<Azelphur> daftykins: it's an asus router, you can buy it pretty much anywhere, it's not hard to find xD
<daftykins> yeah i just thought if you had it up already i'd look at the specs and comment
<Azelphur> nah I don't have it
<daftykins> we're on VDSL over here these days so i don't even know of consumer routers that are appropriate O_O
<daftykins> our ISP provides ones, but they're _horrible_
<daftykins> non-customisable DNS unless you telnet tweak
<Azelphur> VDSL is FTTC right?
<daftykins> probably
<Azelphur> daftykins: should have a BT infinity router, plugs right into the wan port
<daftykins> don't have BT here sir
<Azelphur> ah, some weird VDSL then :P
<daftykins> well i'm sure it's the same kinda tech, as i get 40/5
<daftykins> it's just they don't provide the modems
<daftykins> i've got one though :D firmware unlocked Huawei \o/
<daftykins> was about Â£8 on ebay
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> pretty bog standard 'n' there then
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> 3 antennae but no comment of true x:y streams etc
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlj215wixvqeksx/2014-05-27%2004.34.46.jpg
<daftykins> anyone seen this before?
<daftykins> my mate has this with trusty on his/our asus laptop with optimus
<MartijnVdS> there's your problem
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> i don't think he's even attempting to use the nvidia
<daftykins> actually the external display is running on the VGA which comes off the nvidia i believe
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-29
<mapp> hey all
<MartijnVdS> hey mapp
<mapp> lovely weather here again
<mapp> rain rain rain:)
<MartijnVdS> Oh, it's just very grey here :)
<mapp> ;]
<diddledan> steam just got better
<MartijnVdS> it did?
<diddledan> steam stream
<diddledan> you can leave a box with a meaty gfx card in a cupboard for all your games and run them remotely on a system that wouldn't ordinarily run the game
<mapp> cool
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. but I don't have a cupboard to put such a machine in.. and my meatiest gfx card is in my i7
<diddledan> even better is that if you still have any games that are windows-only you can still run them on linux via steam stream
<MartijnVdS> yeah that would work i guess
<diddledan> technically they're running on a windows box but your every-day machine can still be linux
<MartijnVdS> I need to update my Windows machine
<MartijnVdS> but I'm afraid it'll cry because changing motherboard leads to them extorting more money for a new license
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan_> morning
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Learn About Composting Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> Hah, this is what happens when you undertake at speed http://static.ilyke.net/uploads/2014/04/30/sub/51288-ilyke.net-large-2v8n0h5.jpg
<MooDoo> ouch and serves them right
<DJones> Yep, I find that quite funny
<davmor2> JamesTait: you are just weird :P
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> davmor2, I love you too, mate! :-P
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: Well obviously or our 6 week trudge around Frankfurt airport would of been for nothing :D
<JamesTait> 6 weeks?
<JamesTait> It felt like longer than that....
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was one big joke really :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, and the aborted landing was the punchline?
<davmor2> JamesTait: I thought the taxi breaking down was the punchline
<JamesTait> Hahah!
<davmor2> JamesTait: that or the gate change to the other end of the aiport
<davmor2> airport even
<JamesTait> If nothing else, it was eventful.
<davmor2> JamesTait: well you had to laugh or you'd cry
<JamesTait> And there I was, in the lead up to the sprint, thinking "well at least it's pretty close this time.  No 14-hour trans-atlantic flight.  Should be comparatively relaxed."
<JamesTait> It's all my fault.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: naughty naughty very naughty
<JamesTait> MooDoo, got any salmon?
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> Shhhh! We're showing our age!
<MooDoo> JamesTait: i'm only 22
<MooDoo> ahem
<JamesTait> Do you only count the even years? :-P
<MooDoo> lol
<trilitheus> \leave
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: wrong one he only counts the odd years, he's never been even ;)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm so not the oldest in here :p
<JamesTait> Morning, brobostigon. :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and JamesTait
<davmor2> MooDoo: well I think you and popey were both born in the same year if that helps :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: he's soooooo older than me
<davmor2> MooDoo: How many minutes is Soooooo older?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: is older than me â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> OI
<MooDoo> davmor2: I don't know to be honest I'm April
<TheOpenSourcerer> I may be somewhat older but I still feel like a big kid ;-)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think that makes you older than popey too then :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah crap
<MooDoo> oops
<foobarry> i know coldplay get criticised but the music is not that bad. except for the latest album which is completely soulless
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: That's cause you are :)  You're a bloke and you're a geek there is no way on this earth that you are not going to be a big kid :)
<foobarry> saw an unusual bird yesterdy, cannot find it on the rspb site
<TwistedLucidity> How does one abort an install that's started? Tried to install Solaar and now it wants to install GDM and a bunch of other cruft I don't want.
<andylockran> ctrl+c ?
<TwistedLucidity> Started in Muon - can't find a cancel option.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems to be install the whole of Gnome. Rats.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Solaar can see my Logitech reciever, but can't open it. Thanks for the tip on Solarr; I'll dig into this permission grief....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: oh :(
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I've probably not added myself to the right group or something daft. I'm pleased it can see the receiver though.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Yup - I need to add myself to "plugdev" and it seems KDE has no way of managing group membership by default. Ho hum.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: shuggin fashin kde
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It's got some nice features, but there are times.....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I love the kubuntu team they do some great work with upstream KDE they are well respected and produce a really nice desktop, On the down side I hate kde as a desktop it just scrambles my head sometimes.  I do however love some of the apps :)
<Myrtti> day off â¥
<andylockran> Myrtti: jealous
<Myrtti> andylockran: well, I'm more jealous of the sensible way of dealing with bank holidays
<Myrtti> 1st of May is a day off no matter what day of the week it is, and if it falls on the weekend, then, oh well.
<Myrtti> Ascension Day is always a day off, who cares it's a Thursday and you need to return to work for Friday
<davmor2> Myrtti: muhahahahahaha
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Guess who has the exact reveiver Solaar doesn't support? Story of my life... LOL
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: D'oh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Seeing as how the batteries last a year or so (and the mouse has a "Low battery" warning light) it's not a huge issue. Would have been nice though.
<TwistedLucidity> Will have to try the cheapie TekNet mouse I bought - see if that gets picked up by anything
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: haha
<bigcalm> VLC used to give 2 interfaces when opening 2 different files. Now it only plays in one interface. Anybody know how to restore the previous functionality?
<davmor2> bigcalm: look at the options?
<davmor2> bigcalm: at a guess view
<popey> http://oggcamp.org/ â»
<dutchie> i had to think for a surprisingly long time about where the oxford hotel is
<dutchie> and i have been a student here for 4 years
<Myrtti> whee, it's not in Liverpool this time
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> argh i think my wife is on a hen weekend the we/nd
<bigcalm> Oxford?!
<bigcalm> Bit closer to home for us
<bigcalm> Oh joy
<bigcalm> It's the same weekend as PHPNW14
<bigcalm> Which one do I miss this year?
<popey> PHP is overrated
<popey> â»
<davmor2> bigcalm: people still use php?
<davmor2> :D
<daubers> popey: True, also an Oggcamp question while people are on the subject
<daubers> will there be an openhardware thing again?
<daubers> If so, I'll need to rouse Reading Hackspace into action
<popey> daubers: no idea, I'm not organising this year, marxjohnson is
<daubers> popey: Best to tweet/email/gplus/stalk him?
<popey> yes
<daubers> Which is best :)
<popey> or the @oggcamp account, or both
<popey> twitter
<daubers> okies :) Will do
<daubers> missed it last year, if it's in Oxford this year I have no excuse
<popey> yeah, should be a lot easier for everyone
<popey> *except neuro
<daubers> :)
<popey> (who wouldn't come anyway unless it was at the end of his road) ã
<ahayzen_> Oxford?! wht usually happens at oggcamp?
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/87186564388
<popey> Open Softare, Open Culture, Open Hardware, hacking.. discussion, talks
<davmor2> ahayzen_: geeks get together and do geek stuff
<popey> that
 * ahayzen_ studies at oxford brookes
<ahayzen_> davmor2, sweet!
 * SuperMatt studies at the school of hard knockers
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that's disgusting, shame on you :)
<SuperMatt> sorry
<SuperMatt> I couldn't resist
<ahayzen_> lol
<neuro> popey: what the?
<popey> heh, j/k
<neuro> please not to be joking
<daftykins> neuro: is it not accurate? :D
<neuro> i'm gutted i've missed the last LRL and all the oggcamps
<popey> awww
<neuro> daftykins: seriously, shush
<daftykins> d'aww why so serious, sir
<neuro> shhhhhhhh
<daftykins> hmm put a HDD that's twice as fast in benchmarks, in this old late 2007 macbook
 * bigcalm does not feed the popey & davmor2 trolls
<daftykins> 2.74GB of updates for OS X Lion
<davmor2> bigcalm: awwwww nice you think I was trolling :D
<Armag3dd0n1> sup uk peeps :p
<popey> word
<SuperMatt> yo
 * SuperMatt wonders who this Armag3dd0n1 is to stroll on to our turf
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: does it matter?  Armag3dd0n1 welcome :D
<SuperMatt> shh
<SuperMatt> I was trying to be all gangsta and indimidating
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you're doing it wrong. A simple "Muhahahahahahahaha another victim" should suffice :)
<SuperMatt> maybe that's what I'm doing wrong
<SuperMatt> Muhahahahahahahaa, another victim!
 * SuperMatt eyes up jmg_ 
 * Armag3dd0n1 laughs
<MooDoo> You don't have to be mad to come in here, but it helps
<popey> Are google helpouts still a thing?
<popey> I signed up and got accepted but not used it yet
<SuperMatt> yes they are
<MooDoo> they are still about I've only just got mine myself, it took ages.
<SuperMatt> but I'm not doing them any more
<SuperMatt> turns out working as a racker takes up a lot of time
<SuperMatt> that and my dancing and my running
<SuperMatt> so something had to be let go
<MooDoo> popey: we were having a play with this at some point - http://www.ubuntu-helpouts.org/
<daftykins> SuperMatt: dancing, sir?
<SuperMatt> dancing!
<SuperMatt> I shall be performing for the Queen herself in a matter of weeks
<davmor2> SuperMatt: wearing a pink tutu at the weekend does not make you a dancer
<SuperMatt> oh, sick burn!
<SuperMatt> it'd be such a shame if I didn't have VIDEO EVIDENCE!
<SuperMatt> http://youtu.be/aXcgdg3AnA0
<MooDoo> davmor2: I prefer purple and green tuutuus, pink ones just make you look silly
 * daftykins tries to spot SuperMatt 
<SuperMatt> daftykins: it's not difficult if you know what I look like
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan_> MooDoo, I just requested an invite code from google so when that arrives I might have to be reminded of the ubuntu-helpouts.org addy
<MooDoo> diddledan_: no probs :D
<daftykins> anyone ever reported a firefox bug before?
<daftykins> well, this one's more a design fail
<Armag3dd0n1> nope
<TwistedLucidity> Yes
<TwistedLucidity> Reminds me, they want some tests run.
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: oh?
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Yeah. The folks I'm talking too seem pretty on the ball. Like they actually give a damn.
<daftykins> :O ooh do you have a channel with some worth prodding?
<TwistedLucidity> Bugzilla
<daftykins> just the site itself?
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah
<TwistedLucidity> My issue was an actual crash. If it's a design "thing" then, depending on the "thing", it may need to go through a different channel.
<daftykins> *nod*
<TwistedLucidity> As the "thing" might be a matter of opinion. Bound to an IRC/subreddit/mail-list/design-cabal somewhere
<ali1234> i have reported a few
<daftykins> hilariously i've upped an image to an image site and yet its' address doesn't work
<TwistedLucidity> For that kinda muck I use imgur. Seems to be OK.
<daftykins> yeah that's where i was
<daftykins> the exact image ID isn't working on any other computer XD
<TwistedLucidity> On the right there should be various links. Maybe it take a moment to get cached/stored?
<daftykins> not quite my first foray into such things, it's definitely gone wonky
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/ogx8gQ0.png
<TwistedLucidity> You just need a bigger stick
<daftykins> that's better
<daftykins> second time
<TwistedLucidity> Mac user? BURN THE UNBELIEVER!
<TwistedLucidity> :-P
<daftykins> setting up a friends as it goes.
<TwistedLucidity> I'm only teasing
<ali1234> what's the problem?
<daftykins> i know, but i definitely don't want to be associated with buying apple gear
<daftykins> ali1234: it's very minor really, but you can't dismiss the tour before selecting an answer to the default browser question - which if you're picking yes, you can't do :)
<daftykins> the only route is to manually drag out the window to get it to not overlap
<ali1234> just maximize the window?
<TwistedLucidity> Minor, but annoying. Yes.
<daftykins> right, but the top right window control doesn't work in that instance so you have to drag it out
<daftykins> i just don't think new users should be met with this on initial run
<daftykins> it'll make them pick no :)
<bashrc> I wouldn't buy apple gear.  I just don't like the closedness
<TwistedLucidity> I like the build quality and the design of some things. I lack the deep pockets.
<TwistedLucidity> Also, I like being able to fix my kit.
<ali1234> i would buy the apple hardware but i wouldn't be able to run OS X because it's just so ugly and difficult to use
<daftykins> indeed, very poor window management
<ali1234> those icons tho
<ali1234> i've only just noticed that the panel is a trapezoid because it's supposed to be 3d. lol
<ali1234> i always thought it was just a weird shape
<ali1234> that explains the ugly reflections too
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that sounds more personal though
<TwistedLucidity> There's a few things like that for GNU/Linux too. Never go on with them. Too hard to see what was running.
<ali1234> it's almost like... a shelf
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: yes, unity being the most commonly used
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Was thinking for of Cairo Dock or whatever it was called. Can't get along with Unity either. :-(
<ali1234> unity at least looks nice
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: elementary frw
<TwistedLucidity> Thta's a matter of opinion
<TwistedLucidity> whoops
<ali1234> the thing about opinions is that mine are all correct
<TwistedLucidity> rofl
<daftykins> that's just incredibly grating to read :P
<andylockran> how cna you see your own full connection string?
<andylockran> i.e.17:13 -!- TheOpenSourcerer [~alord@host217-36-92-70.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-uk []
<popey> whois yourself ?
<andylockran> whois andylockran
<daftykins> whois user user
<popey> lol
<popey>  /whois
<andylockran> oops
<andylockran> my rdNS doesn't appear to be working :(
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> it's all about SASL auth
<andylockran>  /msg nickserv auth sasl
<jussi> cripes, its been a long time...
<daftykins> and masking it anyway ;D
<jussi> Registered : Dec 13 17:16:22 2006 (7 years, 24 weeks, 0 days, 23:09:19 ago)
<andylockran> this nickname is already taken
<andylockran> :p
<daftykins> andylockran: if that was a joke i don't know what to think :(
<andylockran> I'm just being daft
<daftykins> i know, that's my job!
<andylockran> du-du -tsh
<popey> 17:28:22 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Apr 09 12:34:28 2004 (10 years, 7 weeks, 3 days, 03:53:53 ago)
<popey> \o/
<andylockran> how do you work that out?
<jussi> popey: you old fart :P
<popey>  /msg nickserv info
<popey> heh
<jussi> andylockran: /msg nickserv info andylockran
<andylockran> 'm a baby
<andylockran> 17:29 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Jul 06 09:24:13 2007 (6 years, 47 weeks, 0 days, 07:04:58 ago)
<Myrtti> rDNS has nothing to do with authentication...
<jussi> andylockran: you can see a limitd subset of other people also
<Myrtti> cloaking does, however
<jussi> andylockran: /msg nickserv info nikname
<andylockran> Myrtti: doesn't it show the rDNS after the @ if you've got it set
<andylockran> when i logged into IRC from my old bitfolk box that used to show up with the rDNS addess
<Myrtti> mmmmmh I haven't a clue how you've got stuff configured, but sure
<daftykins> Myrtti: yeah i was kinda assuming someone'd have a cloak
<daftykins> they're related in my eyes :P
<diddledan> and back
<mapp> yo
<knightwise> hey guys :)
<popey> hiya
<knightwise> popey, when you installed Ubuntu on your macbook pro , do you have any idea what resolution you got ?
<knightwise> 1280 by 800 or 1440 by 900
<knightwise> i think its 1280 by 800,
<knightwise> 14.04 is running nice on that machine :)
<knightwise> the only thing is ... I installed grub on the wrong partition ...
<popey> knack native
<popey> bah
<knightwise> hmm.. i just installed Grub on the wrong partition.
<Armag3dd0n24> yoo ;
<Colin_brrrrr> Hello everyone.....
<Colin_brrrrr> I have a question for you, my cmd/code is not working
<Colin_brrrrr> My $find . -type f -iname 'thumbs.db' -print0 | xargs -0 cp -t /output_folder/
<Colin_brrrrr> it works in the sense that it finds my files and copies them out but because they all have the same name they overwrite each one and i have only one left
<Colin_brrrrr> what am i doing wrong ???
<Colin_brrrrr> probably want to add an incremental value to append to the name or something like that
<Colin_brrrrr> lololo
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-30
<mapps> hey all
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> am I blind or has there been nothing from sabdfl re jono leaving canonical?  would of thought there would be a blog post or something.
<Myrtti> well, we might see something today
<Myrtti> or Monday
<Myrtti> day is still early
<Myrtti> and young
<MooDoo> Yeah I suppose
<Myrtti> he encircled me on Google+ earlier, I just went What the, what have I done wrong now
<MooDoo> lol :D
<MooDoo> have you been naughty Myrtti
<Myrtti> yeah, I've left all Ubuntu IRC channel bar this
<MooDoo> Myrtti: how come?
<Myrtti> need to distance myself for a while lest I rip peoples heads off
<MooDoo> oh no :(
<Myrtti> this channel is nice and mellow with very few trolls at all so I don't mind being here
<MooDoo> I understand
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we talk about food mainly ;-)
<MooDoo> chiili
<TheOpenSourcerer> +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L5W8lDEU4Cs/U4dnA4qDuII/AAAAAAAAQxs/Xh8HDjt04Rc/w654-h872-no/20140529_174328.jpg << A Pink Tiger about to flower
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> I took some piccies of ours yesterday https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why has everyone else got ripe pods except me :-(
<MooDoo> ooo they are looking good Myrtti
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lemon Drop is a lovely chilli. C.Baccatum
<Myrtti> I didn't pick the chilies :-D
<Myrtti> I picked tomatoes and the courgette
<TheOpenSourcerer> My Polytunnel as of the 23rd May: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tdBOuaC7FwM/U4CRfai9AZI/AAAAAAAAQZE/NK4G--wOwCE/w1162-h872-no/20140523_174632.jpg
<Myrtti> we started small
<TheOpenSourcerer> So did I.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it's addictive...
<Myrtti> this is the first summer I'm planning to spend in UK for the whole time bar a week in August
<TheOpenSourcerer> Next year I will probably need ~3000'ft of commercial glasshouse
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer's Chilli Company LTD :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<Myrtti> next year I'll buy another of those Hozelock boxes
<MooDoo> Buy our chillies they are magic :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can be in charge of marketing MooDoo
<Myrtti> or two more
<Myrtti> one for courgette, one for tomatoes, one for chillies
<Myrtti> courgette is such a nice veg when it's grilled proper
<TheOpenSourcerer> Courgettes will do better in the ground - the plant will grow *very* large
<TheOpenSourcerer> spreads out over the floor
<Myrtti> marinated and grilled for 10 minutes on both sides
<Myrtti> mmmm.
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<popey> Today I re-discovered that I have about 20 "work" shirts in my cupboard that I haven't worn for 2.5 years, since I worked in an office.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Loomis Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> I haven't work workshirts for about 2 years too, but I have to admit its so much nicer
<SuperMatt> wherever I work after the rack, I'm probably not going to allow myself to dress so stuffily
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: isn't rackspace a casual place?  ie jeans and a t?
<MooDoo> I've been here 8 years and do sometimes prefer to wear a shirt, although it's only a casual one.
<MooDoo> I suppose they would frown if I wore my Managers suck tshirt lo
<andylockran> morning all
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: yeah, rackspace is casual
<davmor2> MooDoo: but surely you could claim it was a form of religious flagellation you are a manager of sorts :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol yea I was thinking that :)
<foobarry> anyone going to the canonical sponsored openstack thingy next week in london?
<andylockran> MooDoo: you @ Rackspace?  (thought you were at Heart)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> andylockran: no not at rackspace, still at heart
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> andylockran: think i'm part of the furniture now, 8 years :S
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdo MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<SuperMatt> work up
<SuperMatt> word up
<SuperMatt> not work up
<SuperMatt> that would be silly
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: go get coffee ;)
 * awilkins has aeropress coffee
<SuperMatt> I don't drink coffee
<SuperMatt> I generally don't drink hot drinks
<SuperMatt> they hold little appeal for me
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> ribena ftw
 * TheOpenSourcerer just booked to see Steven fry in London in October.
<foobarry> a date?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1st
<foobarry> is it a date
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/stephen-fry-live-84695?dt=2014-10-01
<foobarry> did anyone see my openstack question? anyone going on 4th june to the thing in london?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Saw it. Not going.
<SuperMatt> ok, I've just ordered settlers of catan :D
<foobarry> what happens if there's a riot outside a death metal gig?
<foobarry> police arrive and you get the kettlers of satan
<MooDoo> foobarry: that the redhat one?
<foobarry> MooDoo: the canonical sponsored one http://www.eventbooking.uk.com/openstack/home.html
<MooDoo> ah
<MooDoo> ooo nice
<SuperMatt> good to see rackspace is involved in there :D
<bigcalm> Towing the company line ;)
<SuperMatt> though it's a little annoying that no one has asked me if I wanted to go :(
<foobarry> i just did
<foobarry> ;)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you need to be asked?
<SuperMatt> yeah, but I mean for free
<SuperMatt> you know
<SuperMatt> because I'm a racker
<SuperMatt> this should could as internal training
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ask your boss then or team lead, that'swhat they are there for.
<foobarry> thats what i did
<foobarry> so its "free" in the sense my co is paying
<SuperMatt> very true
<foobarry> actually my boss asked me
<MooDoo> nice boss
<SuperMatt> tbh, openstack isn't what I'm interested in
<SuperMatt> I like containers
<foobarry> there was an event on that this week SuperMatt but i found out too late
<foobarry> looked good
<SuperMatt> you mean DevOps Exchange?
<SuperMatt> cos I was there :D
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> was it good
<foobarry> was it youtubed/videod
<SuperMatt> it was, yeah
<SuperMatt> it was, yeah
<foobarry> stupid out of hours things
<SuperMatt> I still skipped work for the day ;)
<foobarry> i am allergic to the word devops
<foobarry> ugh the openstack thing is not a credit card payment
<popey> how do you pay?
<foobarry> says they will send an invoice
<foobarry> sucks for me
<foobarry> 1.The registration fee is payable in advance and includes presentations, documentation, refreshment breaks, and lunch.
<foobarry> not sure that will happen, companies pay invoices on a month end basis
<foobarry> not sure = 0% chance
<popey> want me to check for you?
<foobarry> woops, there's a yellow box
<foobarry> right at the bottom
<foobarry> credt card payment
<foobarry> :D
<popey> haha
<foobarry> evil trick
 * popey deletes the draft email
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> are you going?
<popey> nah, I'm not a cloud person
<SuperMatt> popey: neither are most of my customers, but it doesn't stop them trying
<SuperMatt> oh how hard they try
<foobarry> there's a lot of fluff in cloud tech
<foobarry> but looks like i will have a massive need next yr
<foobarry> M of Â£ worth
<awilkins> All I want is the ability to push a button and summon forth a server
<awilkins> But our ICT dept. only support Windows
<awilkins> So you have to have procurement discussions because it costs money for all the licenses
<awilkins> :-(
<awilkins> And then, of course, you have a Windows server, another problem child in the kindergarten of the server room
<foobarry> awilkins: you need to push a button and get a new job
 * foobarry is sad that he has to click "middle manager" as his job on surveys
<awilkins> I allegedly manage some programmers
<awilkins> But I also code
<Myrtti> wow. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/27/if-we-cant-change-economic-system-our-number-is-up
<bashrc> I think a lot of the "growth" could be fictitious
<TwistedLucidity> I have never understood why an economey has to "grow" to be seen as good. Luckily for the planet, I'm not an economist.
<bashrc> do I have access to more goods and services than I did a decade ago? Am I using consumables at a higher rate? I don't think so.
<bigcalm> There are more of us
<bashrc> true
<TwistedLucidity> The only need for an economy to grow IMHO is if the population increases.
<TwistedLucidity> But, in the West anyway, that increase is slowing. Maybe even reversing.
<bigcalm> Japan has negative population growth
<bashrc> yes, in some regards I use fewer consumables than I did a decade ago
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: And IIRC a shrinking economy. But it's shrinking less than the population so wealth-per-head is increasing.
<bashrc> also there's a lot of production which isn't counted as production
<awilkins> I think this channel probably has a strong contingent of the "technology will (must) fix things!" guys (like me)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone ever heard of Ubuntu not printing yellow (affects 2 printers - Epson and HP)?
<awilkins> The problem the "Consume less!" lobby has is that it sounds like going back to the dark ages to most people
<TwistedLucidity> "Consumer smarter!" :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Ooops...trailing "r" there by mistake
<awilkins> I think "Produce smarter" is probably the key
<awilkins> What we have at the moment is "Produce the dumbest way possible that we can get away with"
<TwistedLucidity> More like "Produce the lowest quality, for the shortest working-life and sell at the highest price the market will stand".
<TwistedLucidity> Personal 3D printers downloading designs from "the cloud" will solve everything.
<shauno> wow.  scheduled a ups pickup for 12-5pm.  they show up at 12:03.  I wish they were that punctual delivering
<foobarry> very wow
<SuperMatt> shauno: problem is now you have 5 hours of time to fill
<shauno> hah, kerbal space program tends to solve that problem with ruthless efficiency
<foobarry>  watch Star Trek: Into the Darkness with a live orchestra at the Royal Albert Hall
<nucc1> hi guys, if my custom C program dumps core, where can I find it on ubuntu ?
<foobarry> in the current working directory?
<nucc1> none there
<foobarry> check ulimit -a
<foobarry> core file size
<nucc1> foobarry: gotcha. it says 0.
<nucc1> :)
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> ulimit -c unlimited
<foobarry> then try again
<nucc1> thanks. i'm probably ok from here :)
<foobarry> i broke the conference registration
<MooDoo> foobarry: well done :D
<foobarry> i do try.
<foobarry> i know its friday afternoon, but i'm off to pull plugs on stuff
<bashrc> happy unplugging
<foobarry> resilience testing on some soon to be prod kit
<foobarry> although we're kind of using it already :S
<diddledan> yey for the beta internet
<diddledan> the comment I'm referencing is in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GtmwyvmWE
<bigcalm> Does google auto archive all hangouts?
<popey> no
<popey> only hangouts on air
<bigcalm> Okay
<marxjohnson> OR SO THEY SAY
<davmor2> marxjohnson: google don't the nsa might
<diddledan> calea
<diddledan> certainly in american devices they can
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act
<bigcalm> I'm not bothered. But it would have been nice to have records of team meetings
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you can record them if I'm not mistaken then publish them to youtube
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you need to install panda antivirus on all your clients machines look how it solves pebcak issues for you http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-05/30/8/enhanced/webdr08/anigif_enhanced-19405-1401453866-7.gif
<bigcalm> :D
<shauno> panda is even stranger in context.  they're egyptian cheese adverts
<foobarry> are panda still a scientology owned company
<foobarry> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MtW90YkkB3gC&lpg=PA312&ots=01Tqb7gLWn&dq=panda%20scientology&pg=PA312#v=onepage&q=panda%20scientology&f=false
<shauno> I'm not sure I've ever seen those two words in the same sentence ;)  but I was referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYz3sl0LEA4
<bigcalm> shauno: that's nuts
<diddledan> is anyone else monitoring the truecrypt fallout?
<foobarry> whats the latest
<foobarry> i read the reg article
<diddledan> still no clue afaict
<diddledan> full-disclosure are discussing it at length at last
<awilkins> I lurked in #truecrypt for a while
<awilkins> But I got tired of the trolls and the interference from tinfoil hat reflections
<awilkins> The prevailing theory is that the TC creators are basically saying "Truecrypt is horribly broken" by recommending you use encryption products that are also known to be horribly broken instead
<foobarry> 4pm on friday and i just pulled the mains cables out of the UPSs
<awilkins> Alternate theory is that a TLA got control of their signing key (either with a rubber hose or more elegant means) and want you all to stop using TrueCrypt because they hates it *sssssss*
<awilkins> Basically it's screwed... trust for it is broken for the majority
<awilkins> i) If the audit that is going to continue for it says "Hey, it's basically OK" - no-one will believe that hasn't been subverted
<awilkins> ii) If it finds horrible vulns, then no-one will ever trust it again
<awilkins> iii) No corporate person will use it again because the mere whiff of using security products with possible broken-ness is enough to get you  sued into oblivion in the USA, regardless of whether you have fully audited the code and found it to be sound
<awilkins> On balance I think I believe that it's a campaign to destroy a useful tool, more than the possibility that it is egregiously broken
<bashrc> I don't know what the current state of the truecrypt story is, but my suspicion is that this is a Lavabit or Binney type of scenario
<bashrc> men show up with guns, tell you to stop doing X
<awilkins> There are hints in the diffs, apparently
<awilkins> Things like all the "US" being s/US/United States/
<bashrc> apparently that's an automatic replacement by visual studio
<bashrc> in the bigger picture there are currently efforts underway to increase the level of security of computer systems.  I think this is part of the pushback to spread fear and doubt about using encryption
<SirMarky> Hello - would anyone be able to help me with a permissions problem I seem to be going around in circles with?
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<SirMarky> lubotu3 - You could have just said 'yes'.  No need to make me feel small for not knowing the rules of your club. :-(
<lubotu3> SirMarky: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bigcalm> SirMarky: the point being that you don't need to ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and somebody _might_ be able to help you :)
<andylockran> SirMarky: fire away - what's the issue?
<andylockran> !patience | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran, please see my private message
<bigcalm> !patience | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<andylockran> calm down bigcalm :p
<andylockran> I feel ignored.
<bigcalm> Heh
 * diddledan ignores andylockran 
<diddledan> *!*@80.229.11.208 added to ignore list
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> only joking, I wouldn't do that
<diddledan> in other news. publicising IP addresses doesn't reduce your security
<bigcalm> directhex: one for you http://batlesbo.tumblr.com/post/87305350550
<diddledan> I hate that folk go into the wordpress channel and ask for edge-case help but refuse to show any examples because they erroneously think they're being clever by not telling anyone their web address
<diddledan> bigcalm - a sloth?!
<bigcalm> diddledan: I was surprised about that one as well. Dangerous claws
<diddledan> that's cuteness overload
<diddledan> what's the last one?
<bigcalm> Raccoon?
<diddledan> aah, I was thinking a firefox :-p
<bigcalm> Heh
<diddledan> what do you mean there's no such thing as a firefox?!
<diddledan> I stand corrected, there is
<diddledan> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=firefox&es_sm=119&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=fqqIU871DrXJsQSu7IKwCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1278&bih=668#q=firefox%20animal&revid=1228104664&tbm=isch
<daftykins> it's a nickname for the Red Panda
<daftykins> afaik
<diddledan> foo, just waited on the phone for nearly 30 minutes to talk to the tax people
<diddledan> that sucksors when you only need a simple query
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> i nearly had a massive shock just before, i thought i'd found more flight holes from woodworm up in another room
<daftykins> but i think they're older ones
<daftykins> popey: you've done ISO booting from GRUB before, right?
<daftykins> did you ever run into streaming errors of "/init line 3 can't open /dev/sr0 "
<daftykins> hmm maybe that ISO just isn't designed for booting of that style
<daftykins> diddledan: i'm amazed you didn't get some infighting for that XP troll link ;)
<daftykins> perhaps the ops are relaxing these days
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> daftykins, maybe because I made it clear it was intended to be assy?
<daftykins> ugh an ISO 6MB too large for a CD-R
 * daftykins shakes his fists
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> 9MB/sec over 130Mb wireless through a wooden floor \o/
 * diddledan spits on your wireless
<daftykins> i'm in the lounge on my laptop *shrug*
<daftykins> don't be hating!
<diddledan> I'm plugged-in
<diddledan> they're making me hungry now, talking about chips
<daftykins> diddledan: oven fried, with scampi
<diddledan> I would guess mentioning it in there would be considered trolling :-p
<diddledan> good news or bad? http://www.deadline.com/2014/05/mgm-warner-bros-reboot-stargate/
<diddledan> how likely are they to respect the three tv series?
<shauno> they're worth any respect?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9XrrEaZ7Y4
<daftykins> diddledan: my interpretation of an article i read was that they were considering the film alone
<diddledan> daftykins, that's what I figured
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> so this guy i know wants to build a cheap home server
<daftykins> his idea is to start with some disks now, then maybe add some later, with them all in one pool
<daftykins> it sounds like the scenario where LVM is appropriate, but i've never touched it before... is it really... safe? :D
<daftykins> nobody? :)
<foobarry> yes but popey will tell you of btrgs
<foobarry> btrfs
<foobarry> and i will tell you of dedicated nas boxen
<foobarry> unless it's for learning..
<foobarry> off to bed nighty night
<diddledan> it's friday!
<diddledan> friday = stay awake until you pass out day
<shauno> purrrdy much
<diddledan> well done america: https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10338252_961493367213450_2473946443256384171_n.jpg
<daftykins> hrmm yis btrfs
<diddledan> lol, the EU is becoming farsical: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641817/Brussels-ignores-anger-EU-demands-Britain-pays-ANOTHER-500million-despite-damning-election-results.html
<diddledan> to be fair, and to redress some sort of balance, that's the daily mail
<shauno> why's it still legal to link to DM :/
<daftykins> XD
<ging> does anyone know on the ubuntu installer manual network config, it asks for a name server, can you have 2 ? how do you seperate them if you can?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-31
<daftykins> ging: i wouldn't attempt to try and set all that there
<diddledan> http://www.dabs.com/products/samsung-1tb-840-evo-series-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-8WCN.html?src=3
<diddledan> 1TB SSD
<diddledan> for 359.99
<diddledan> that's a reasonable amount of storage
<daftykins> EVO = TLC
<daftykins> boooo
<diddledan> I should know why that's a negative point
<daftykins> triple level cell has very low program/erase cycles
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> limiting the lifespan pretty seriously compared with MLC
<diddledan> what's the M stand for?
<daftykins> kinda amusing that the distinctions are single level cell, multi level cell and triple level cell though :(
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> multi triple? lawl
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> dabs also have this: http://www.dabs.com/products/netgear-readynas-104--4-bay--1-2ghz-512mb--diskless--8K4Q.html?src=3
<diddledan> completely irrelevant to the SSD discussion, however
 * diddledan browsing their pay-day deals
<daftykins> however, if i could find the VAT button...
<diddledan> damn you foreigners
<diddledan> at the bottom in the footer block it tells you to "change"
<diddledan> last line before the logos
<diddledan> "All prices displayed are quoted inclusive of VAT unless otherwise stated change"
<daftykins> 299.99...
<daftykins> yeah that's only Â£34 cheaper than usual
<daftykins> D:
<dogmatic69> anyone know of a wifi card that supports AP in ubuntu 14.x
<daftykins> AP?
<daftykins> i'd hope all support access points ;)
<dogmatic69> not from what I am reading :/
<daftykins> what do you mean by AP?
<dogmatic69> basically I want my pc to make wifi magic so my phone can connect to it
<dogmatic69> pc is miles away from wifi, so when ever I am at the pc phone is using 3g
<daftykins> is the PC cabled in?
<dogmatic69> ye
<daftykins> why don't you just buy a WAP that has a switch in, so you can add a second wireless LAN beside the PC?
<dogmatic69> router -> cat5 -> pc -> wifi -> phone
<dogmatic69> wap?
<daftykins> wireless access point
<daftykins> oh so it already has wireless hardware?
<dogmatic69> I have a 'wap' and it crashed my network. Was flooding with packets
<daftykins> that makes no sense
<daftykins> unless you looped a connection and caused a broadcast storm
<dogmatic69> maybe
<daftykins> do you still have that? what kind is it?
<dogmatic69> it was a thing that connected to cat and made wifi
<dogmatic69> in a box somewhere
<daftykins> dig it out!
<daftykins> where i used to live, i had the router at one end of the house but my equipment at the other... so i had a WAP sit down there plugged into my switch so i could get my wireless devices on down there
<daftykins> router 1 -> cat5e -> switch -> devices & WAP ->
<dogmatic69> I have router -> cat -> switch -> switch -> pc :D
<daftykins> why two switches 0o
<dogmatic69> 24 port with loads of things -> 5 port with pc things
<dogmatic69> or 8 port actually
<daftykins> the benefit of the WAP is you won't have to have the PC on just to provide wireless to the phone
<dogmatic69> 24 has nas, server, rpi, couple priters etc
<dogmatic69> well the pc is on 24x7
<daftykins> i see
<dogmatic69> as it is logging data from arduinos :)
<daftykins> so assuming it's a single port WAP, as in there's only one LAN port on it, i'd factory reset it and slap it into the switch there
<daftykins> if you see every port's activity light flashing, maybe it's damaged and causing a broadcast storm
<dogmatic69> will try find it laster
<daftykins> but... that would be weird
<diddledan> interesting
<diddledan> sky have me in a /29 subnet
<diddledan> does that mean they've actually assigned me the whole subnet but only assigning the one IP via dhcp?
<daftykins> turn off NAT and test ;D
<diddledan> the sky routers don't let you do that :-p
<daftykins> ISP gear D: evul
<daftykins> ah i was looking up SSD benchmarks
<daftykins> diddledan: http://anandtech.com/bench/product/743?vs=962
<whowhat> @search finisher baldacci
<mapp> hey
<shauno> morn
<SuperMatt> morning all
 * SuperMatt waves from work
<diddledan> allo allo
<diddledan> work on a saturdy?
<SuperMatt> yeah, covering a shift
<SuperMatt> nice little bit of overtime
<SuperMatt> I had no other plans today
<SuperMatt> although my plans seem like they could have involved a lot more bed
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<mapp> hello
<mapp> :)
 * mapp is off
<SuperMatt> word up
<SuperMatt> I wondered what that smell was
<mapp> going to the casino tonight to watch the boxing
<mapp> but thats about al
<mapp> l
<mapp> apparently genting's going to be packed tonight and they reckon theyll have to turn people away
<mapp> doubt it myself
<SuperMatt> is it a ticketed event?
<mapp> na
<mapp> starts at 10pm or scheduled to..cant see it starting then though
<mapp> grosvenor doing 8quid and you get a burger/pint and 5 quid gaming voucher
<SuperMatt> I'd make sure you get there early, if I'm honest. if the casino are saying it's going to busy, it really is likely to be quite mental as they have probably heard a lot of chatter about the night
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SirMarky> I have an issue with the unity sidebar. Selecting a program icon wont' take me to any window sitting on a different workspace, only the ones in the current. Can anyone help?
<penguin42> there seems to be an annoying  gotcha upgrading from 12.10; the gui quits with no-error - it's only from the commandline you see it's moaning about /tmp being mounted noexec (which seems perfectly reasonable)
<penguin42> right, so my dads main machine is now on Trusty, should keep that one happy for a while - now if I can get him to update his other machine s that would be grand
<penguin42> answering the 'whats using all my disk space' on his other machine was more interesting - ~50G of mozilla crash reports
<popey> blimey
<popey> i should update my mums machine from 12.04 to 14.04
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> popey: hi sir, would btrfs be a good solution for a multi-disk setup where someone's after reliable fast storage with purely motherboard SATA ports + disks?
<popey> pip pip
<popey> I guess so, yeah
<popey> it doesn't do raid 5 yet though
<popey> or raid5-like
<daftykins> mmm, i saw talk of 0, 1 and 10
<daftykins> haven't gotten my head around the tech yet though, i find everything's written at a high level
<popey> i have 12 disks in raid 1
<popey> but will move to raid 5 at some point
<popey> #btrfs is friendly
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> ta very much
<daftykins> hmm, that is not a very family friendly nickname
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<daftykins> haha that's the best monocle face i've seen
<penguin42> popey: can you do raid50 - that's a nice trade off
<popey> not yet
<popey> 19:20:43 < popey> darksatanic: do we have an ETA on RAID5-like?
<popey> 19:21:25 < darkthing> No.
<popey> 19:24:02 < darkthing> Unless you want to run the current incomplete version for testing, of course
<penguin42> yeh that's a great way to store your data :-)
<popey> indeed
<daftykins> this guy i know wants to put together a little home server, but i'd rather stick to the land of hardware RAID which i understand :D
 * penguin42 has a 2nd drive he needs to put in a box tonight and make it RAIDed - after the SSD failed last week
 * penguin42 could do with avoiding having to do a reinstall, and setting up RAID with a single drive is a bit tricky as I remember
<popey> converting to btrfs is easier â»
 * penguin42 still doesn't fancy that
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> yeah, it's knowing what to do in the event of an emergency that's important i think
<daftykins> and how much effort it is to maintain
<penguin42> daftykins: Actually the trickier thing is my parents can't rescue it if I'm out or away - they can hit reset
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yaawwwns at bigcalm
<popey> pip pip
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-01
<knightwise> morning everyone ! :)
<mapps> hey all
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hey knightwise
<knightwise> hey mapps :) how are you today
<mapps> not bad mate..going sleep in a bit
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> ha :)
<knightwise> i just go up
<knightwise> working on my macbook pro. Installed 14.04 on it
<knightwise> now just need to find out a way to move my bootloader over to the right partition
<knightwise> rookie mistake !
<mapps> nuce
<mapps> aha
<mapps> i was out for the froch fight
<mapps> then came home and went out again at 3am
<mapps> :)
<knightwise> froch fight ?
<mapps> the boxing match
<mapps> froch v groves
<mapps> went to the casino for 10..was done by 1030
<mapps> went home..watched anchorman went back out at 3;p
<knightwise> haha :)
<knightwise> zo you gonna catch some ZZZ's
<mapps> yeaa in a bit
<mapps> went strip club too..yawn
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> hahahah :)
<mapps> 'oh i really like you'
<mapps> 'oh im a moron and believe you'
<knightwise> * now give me a dollar !*
<mapps> yep
<mapps> lol
<mapps> 'oh i got no money' *walks off*
<mapps> :P
<knightwise> men are surprisingly naive when most of there blood is below their belt
<shauno> the age old problem.  two brains, and only enough blood to run one at a time
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> hey funkyHat
<mapps> im not a mug i just say
<mapps> 'no got no money;
<mapps> suddenly they dont like me
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> hahah
<knightwise> damn :)
<knightwise> muscle memory getting in the way . i keep pressing the command key instead of the control key
<mapps> heh
<knightwise> I need to switch them around in the compiz meny
<knightwise> menu
<knightwise> I'm gonna get a new laptop for my company (i just started a business) and I think i'm gonna go for a macbook air 11.6 inch ( I7, 8gb, 500gigSSD) that I can use to dual boot OSX and ubuntu
<knightwise> So i'm using my (old) macbook pro as a training ground to get everything setup
<mapps> macs are nice
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> The age of my macbook  is starting to show in the fact that it has a resolution of 1280 by 800 on a 13.3 inch screen
<knightwise> thats a little on the low side
<shauno> the current (non-retina) 13" is exactly the same
<knightwise> hey shauno
<shauno> morning
<knightwise> I am waiting untill the WWDC is over next week to make sure they are NOT planning a retina version of the 11.6 inch
<knightwise> if they don't i'm ordering the current one.
<knightwise> but i'll be going for a 11.6 inch
<knightwise> that size is just too damn handy
<knightwise> btw , have any of you tried conky-manager ?
<shauno> finally started watching 24.  seems like just the ticket for 12hr shifts
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> hey all
 * SuperEngineer is upgrading lubuntu on netbook from 12.04 to 14.04... upgrade by painfully slow upgrade
 * SuperEngineer taps fingers impatiently
<penguin42> netbooks don't have the fastest disks
<SuperEngineer> Pendulum: nor the fastest processors... the download was faster than the [ongoing] configuring
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ^
<penguin42> nod
<SuperEngineer> [but it is fun having 3 different "buntus": 12.04 ubuntu on desktop; 12.04 xubuntu on HP mini [used as a docs machine for work] [with steam for boring sorfware reloads; lubuntu on netbook... keeps one "occupied"
<SuperEngineer> I was once asked how I knew about xbuntu when I claimed to be a Ubuntu desktop user..
<SuperEngineer> ..I fired up the netbook & mini in front of them and added the "now imagine a full blown desktop with proper ubuntu on it at home" bit
<SuperEngineer> ...the person who asked is now a convert :D
<penguin42> nod, I run mostly KDE, although my dads on Mate and my mum  I think has Unity
<popey> just dug out an Eee 900
<popey> should probably put this away in the loft, will never get used really
<popey> heh, its running 12.04
<popey> last booted this exactly 5 months ago
 * SuperEngineer thinks of offering Â£Â£ pounds for Eee900
<penguin42> it's worth more than Â£2 - a little bit more
<SuperEngineer> Â£Â£Â£ perhaps?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> according to ebay, no
<popey> heh, found an eee 701 on ebay for 120 quid.. optimistic
<popey> still has the original xandros install
<popey> i think the description is supposed to say "Notebook" but it got nicely truncated...
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASUS-Eee-PC-4G-Surf-7-4-GB-Intel-Celeron-M-900-MHz-512-MB-Ultraportable-No-/161323121293
<penguin42> phhh - Â£120 for a 7 inch?!
<SuperEngineer> darn - I was hoping you wouldn't check, popey ;)
<popey> takes a while to update â»
<SuperEngineer> help! lubuntu netbook 12-.04->12.10 upgrade ok.  Just kicked off upgrade to 13.10 & stuck on "Do you want to start the upgrade" screen...
<SuperEngineer> can't move it to see the buttons - or find a key press to accept
<SuperEngineer> ...all ideas accepted ;)
<SuperEngineer> damn window is to big for netbook screen
<SuperEngineer> [big = tall]
<popey> can you navigate it with tab keys?
<popey> tab and space
<popey> hold down ALT on window to move it around with mouse
<SuperEngineer> popey: will try it [ I Alt-F4'd out of it & noe restarting upgrade
 * SuperEngineer plugs in mouse & hopes ;)
<penguin42> plug in a monitor?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no need
<SuperEngineer> popey: once again, Sir, you are a hero.  Thank you :)
<popey> yay
<SuperEngineer> things not to do when upgrading netbook - doze off just before the upgrader asks a question... zzzz... :)
<SuperEngineer> still here we go - no probs so far
<SuperEngineer> whoopee - finally.... netbook lubuntu 12.04->13.10->14.04 upgrade is upgrading to 14.04 [fingers crossed]
<SuperEngineer> only prob noticed so far [in 13.10] was gnome-do didn't auto start... nice to have something to do after all going so well [so far] ;)
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - should I take the opprtunity to catch up on work emails during upgrade?
<SuperEngineer> work email or tv ... work email or tv... so hard to choose [not!]
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/bill-remix.mp3
<SuperEngineer> Laney: Rick Wakeman does The Bill?
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: crikey, i'd have just clean installed.
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: I too that thatr was a good idea - but I was determined [just for once ] to see what an upgrade to upgrade to upgrade was like - not too bad so far
<SuperEngineer> [though been bleach biting at end of each upgrade too keep some free space towards start of didk ;)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i'd imagine there's a fair stash of useless kernels mounting, yeah
<SuperEngineer> surprisingly, during the 12.10 -> 13.10 I noticed it automaticaly removed old kernel but as synaptic's there by default removal of "spares" isn't that hard even if it hadn't
<daftykins> GUI package management!? heresy!
<daftykins> how come you didn't have to go 12.10 to 13.04, to 13.10 ?
<SuperEngineer> *that* is a question I will not know the answer to! It went from 12.04 -> 12.10 -> 13.10
<SuperEngineer> [but I have no complaint about that!]
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> you dont have to with 12.04
<popey> er, 14.04
<popey> we support direct upgrades from releases between 12.04 and 14.04 to 14.04
<popey> because of the strange support timescales for the inbetween releases
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: ^ ...& there is the answer... thanks popey
<daftykins> i understand LTS to LTS
<daftykins> ho-hum
<daftykins> i think if you can clean install it's undue waste on the package mirrors really
<popey> clean install = ~800MB+ and then the post-install updates.
<popey> so still a fair chunk of updates
<popey> with an upgrade you jump directly to latest
<daftykins> not in the above scenario
<popey> well thats unusual.
<daftykins> yep
<popey> he could have jumped though, and not gone through everyone
<SuperEngineer> I've done this upgrade in less time thanm it would have taken to download the full iso - create disk or usb - install - reload extras
<daftykins> i've a couple of VMs on 10.04 server still
<SuperEngineer> *than
<daftykins> maybe, but i wouldn't fancy the likely quirks i anticipate with upgrades :D
<SuperEngineer> That's the fun I'm about to find out!
<popey> my laptop has gone 12.04 -> 12.10 -> 13.04 -> 13.10 -> 14.04
<SuperEngineer> any probs encountered?
<popey> sure, i upgraded to dev releases
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer checks temperature of netbook - whew...so far, so good
<daftykins> whoops, Nexus 4 just came out of my pocket totally unresponsive
<daftykins> power button did nothing, but managed to get to bootloader and boot normally
<daftykins> D:
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: next time - don't drop it down the loo bowl!
<daftykins> but it wanted to go for a swim :(
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> "Global warming will lead to a significant increase in extreme summer downpours and flash floods in the UK, a study suggests."  Any other suprises, BBC? Preferably ones we hadn't already noticed!
 * SuperEngineer lives where a whole county went underwater in July!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Note those are the downpours/flash floods rather than the month long pour downs that cause prelonged flooding
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: In Gloucestershire a very few years back it happened in *one* downpour, one afternoon.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Right, and that's what they're predicting more of I think, rather than the type of thing that caused last winters problems
<SuperEngineer> agrred - but it ain't "news"
<penguin42> shrug
<shauno> it's better than an elephant taking a 'selfie' :/
<SuperEngineer> ...it's just depressing
<penguin42> shauno: Yes!
<SuperEngineer> shauno: I show that pic - rather that than where it *could* have pointed the camera ;)
<SuperEngineer> sub show/saw
 * SuperEngineer always giggles when watching installs/updaes... and see "girl2" passing by in terminal !! #chiildish!
<SuperEngineer> ..but is always reassured when machine has successfully installed the girls!
<penguin42> it might be reassuring for you....
<SuperEngineer> oooh - it is!
<shauno> plural?  usually installing girl2 causes a lot of problems with girl1
<SuperEngineer> shauno: depends on your relationship with girlx - - if anythinfg goes wrong... "..but it wasn't my fault - she just appeared & forced her way in... honest!"
<SuperEngineer> never do a - "sudo upgrade girl" - unless you really know what you you are doing!
<diddledan> yeah, because "bash: upgrade: not found"
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<diddledan> and just to prove it I just tried, slightly different message than my attempt at memory above, but it reports: "sudo: upgrade: command not found"
<SuperEngineer> doh!
<diddledan> I think that's just trying to tell me I'm single tho
<daftykins> this foreign neighbour behind my place is on the phone, i can hear *both* sides of the convo
<daftykins> @_@
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: give a shout out and say "hi" to both for me please
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> ugh why do Europeans require such greater volume to speak?
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: it's revenge for brits doing the same abroad
<diddledan> PAS D'IDÃE
<SuperEngineer> :$
<SuperEngineer> well, that's the upgrades done [would have been quicker if I hadn't had a snooze half way through!]
<SuperEngineer> no problems apart from the one I was expecting - gnome-do doesn't work on the 14.04 lubuntu - ho hum - I can live without that if I must ;)(
<SuperEngineer> [just noticed that it isn't in the lubuntu 14.04 software centre]
<SuperEngineer> ...even though it still shoes in synaptic [hmmmm]
<SuperEngineer> no probs - I ain't crying
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-25
<knightwise> Morning
<knightwise> hey Hornet-
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> im back in uk atm;p
<MooDoo> nice wb
<mapps> next stop is Ukraine:)
<MooDoo> you doing a eurovision tour ;)
<mapps> haha nah
<mapps> im a lone warrior remeber
<mapps> but my next stop is kiev
<brobostigon> stay out of the war. dont get hot by bullets.
<brobostigon> hit*
<MartijnVdS> getting hot by bullets..
<MartijnVdS> friction or burning?
<brobostigon> both.
<elfy> so don't get hit by hot bullets
<mapps> brobostigon thats eastn ukraine;p
<brobostigon> mapps: i know, it was meant to be a joke.
<mapps> ie got a friend who said he'll meet me at the airport
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> I went the other way -- I drove around the UK for a week :)
<brobostigon> maybe it was a burning arrow being carries on the back of a bullet?
<brobostigon> carried*
<mapps> my friend said he
<mapps> 'is scary to come'
<mapps> but i think we will be ok at ukraine:)
<SuperEngineer> mapps, why do you keep going on about uk rain?
<SuperEngineer> [& there's no "e" in rain]
<mapps> because its where im going
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Ye Olde Raine.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> aka tap water
<knightwise> hey everyone
<popey> yo
<zmoylan-pi> wow, nearly forgot, happy towel day everyone...
<bashrc> happy towel day
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> happy towel day  :)
<knightwise> hmm.. i wish Xorg still existed
 * knightwise having trouble with his ultrawide monitor
<shauno> so you'd like 2 problems instead?  ;)
<knightwise> Dunno .. at least in Xorg I knew how to add a resolution
<knightwise> Ati card is having trouble with the 2560x1440 res of my screen
<knightwise> somehow it just goed up to 2560x1080
<penguin42> for X I'd know where to suggest looking
<knightwise> I assume its x (14.04 on a mac mini)
<penguin42> knightwise: Well, in that case look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log and look for errors or warnings
<penguin42> knightwise: and also xrandr to see what it lists as available resolutions
<knightwise> according to xrandr the max res it knows is 2560x1080
<penguin42> knightwise: ok, so /var/log/Xorg.0.log is the best thing to look at
<penguin42> knightwise: Look for any lines with (EE) or (WW) in that are errors or warnings (there are normally a few WW anyway) and also see if the 2560x1440 appears anywhere in it
<knightwise> no errors , but 2560x1440 doesnt show up anywhere either
<penguin42> fun
<penguin42> knightwise: What's the card and which driver?
<knightwise> checking , holdon
 * penguin42 was expecting it to list it but reject it at some point
<knightwise> radeon 6600/6700 fglrx-updates proprietary driver
<penguin42> hmm, I've not used the proprietary one for a few years; I use the open one on my hd4350
<penguin42> knightwise: OK, not sure if this will work, but.....
<penguin42> knightwise: install the read-edid package  then do           find /sys -name edid            it will find one pseudo-file for each output
<penguin42> knightwise: then do       parse-edid < /sys/devices/whatever      where the whatever comes from the find
<penguin42> knightwise: That should give you the information that the monitor is telling the host
<knightwise> i have been looking at adding the resolution to xrandr but  that does not seem to work
<penguin42> knightwise: Since you're using the fglrx driver perhaps you should use the setup tool that comes with it?
<knightwise> aha i'll look for that
<knightwise> erm .. how do i open that tool ?
<knightwise> i think i found it :)
<penguin42> knightwise: Anyway, if you don't get the monitor working, just ship it here
<knightwise> ah wait
<knightwise> the res of my screen IS 2560x1080
<knightwise> it was throwing up an error when I booted because it saw 1920x1080
<zmoylan-pi> i was using 800x600 in 2010 :-)
<penguin42> knightwise: Ah ha!
<knightwise> ok , so this appears to be working :)
<knightwise> ok , all I need to fix now is Chrome
<knightwise> looks like it gets all jumbled up when i scroll
<penguin42> that sounds like a driver bug
<knightwise> ok , rolling back to the open source driver , see if that helps :)
<diddledan_> eh? wish xorg still existed? <-- does it not then?
 * SuperEngineer ponders the declination of this new verb "then"
<diddledan__> I hope you're not expecting me to even. because I can't even.
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps they a word? :-P
<penguin42> all these pedants worry about verbification
<diddledan__> penguin42: don't you mean "verbing"?
<zmoylan-pi> what do they know? :-)
<diddledan__> verb is a verb now
<zmoylan-pi> they'll be wanting us to make less mistakes next...
<diddledan__> I need to verb this.
<zmoylan-pi> it will literally drive them nuts...
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, verbify.. also a verb?
<SuperEngineer> the thingg  is, yo sea,I neeever mak a mustuke
<SuperEngineer> [except when typing, writing, or speaking]
<zmoylan-pi> as lnog as  the frist and lsat lteters are in rghit plcae it all wroks ok
<SuperEngineer> :D
<diddledan__> err. was that english?
<zmoylan-pi> and makes dyslexics happy :-)
<diddledan__> what's the capital of England? (hint, it's E)
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was bristol as dr. who turns up there a lot? :-)
<diddledan__> don't you mean swansea
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<SuperEngineer> or Cardiff?
<diddledan__> aah yea, cardiff
<zmoylan-pi> ^and this
<diddledan__> see, I suck!
 * diddledan__ finds a minto to suck on
 * zmoylan-pi passes around a bag of murray mints
<diddledan__> mmm
<diddledan__> tasty sickles
<diddledan__> futurama ftw, btw
<zmoylan-pi> it has it's moments
<diddledan__> https://youtu.be/Ki7VqBmkf7M
<knightwise> ok , erm .. stupid question. What version of the 14.04 (or 15.04) distro do you use to install on a mac mini with Xeon processorts
<knightwise> the 64 bit right ?
<penguin42> either 32 or 64 should work
<penguin42> hang on, a mac mini with a Xeon?
<knightwise> its an I7 mac mini
<penguin42> why do they put the xeons in them rather than the i7 variant?
<knightwise> i have 16 gigs of ram , so i should go for the 64 bit version , correct ?
<penguin42> yes, always use teh 64bit version unless your hardware doesn't support it
<knightwise> so does EFI boot matter ?
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward silliness at mention of efi....
<penguin42> knightwise: I don't think so these days; the only weirdness now is that if you have a 32bit EFI (that's very very rare) then you need to do special stuff
<knightwise> ok , because I downloaded the 64 bit version of elementary and got the error code "controller not found'
<penguin42> now which controller is the question
<knightwise> i think it might be the video controller, holdon , i'll boot
<knightwise> i8042 no controller found
<penguin42> oh that's OK I think - that's just saying you've not got PS/2 keyboard
<knightwise> yep .. but it hangs on that screen
<knightwise> I have a wireless logitech keyboard with one of those little remote usb controllers
<knightwise> do i need to plug in a generic usb keyboard ?
<penguin42> I don' the i8042 message is relevant to your problem; it's just the last message before it went wrong - but it's worth trying a generic usb keyboard if you've got one, I'd heard other people having problems with some of the logitech wireless
<knightwise> ok , getting a kb from the basement now
<zmoylan-pi> something with an at connector so you can connect a at -> ps2 -> usb adapter... :-)
 * penguin42 isn't sure where his at->ps2 adapter is, I'd like to see if some of my more keyboards still work
<knightwise> got a generic mac keyboard (wired)
<knightwise> nope , same problem
 * penguin42 guesses more likely a graphics problem
<knightwise> hmm there is a radeon 6600 in there
<penguin42> should work
<knightwise> god .. this used to just work ...
<diddledan_> knightwise: good to see the new season of your podcast \o/
<diddledan_> jeebers. win10 is bsodding every other minute today
<diddledan_> hmm, seems my surface overheated
<diddledan_> it's shutdown with a thermometer icon on the screen just prior
<zmoylan-pi> that's not good
 * diddledan_ leaves it for a bit to cool-off
<zmoylan-pi> surface 4... now with noisy cooling fans... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> and being ms they'll face upwards so that if you use it outside in the rain it'll be a funnel... :-D
<penguin42> an over heating tablet, there had to be a time
<bujji> popey:when i use "rm  <file name>"as a user with 777 permissions in file its not warn me why?
<dutchie> why would it warn you?
<bujji> if i use run that command as aroot user its warn me?
<bujji> dutchie:may i know the reason ?
<dutchie> what was the warning?
<bujji> dutchie:rm:remove regular empty file 'file.txt' ? when i run as a root user with 777 perm
<bujji> dutchie:"rm file.txt"
<MartijnVdS> Some distributions alias "rm" to "rm -i" for the root account
<MartijnVdS> to protect against accidents
<dutchie> yes it's most likely that
<MartijnVdS> you can check by running the command "aliasA"
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> the command "alias"
<MartijnVdS> also, probably, in .bashrc or .bash_profile, or similar (there's a list of startup scripts in the bash manual, "man bash")
<bujji> yeah i found that
<bujji> MartijnVds:if i unalias that one it wont ask like that
<bujji> MartijnVdS:let me check in user
<bujji> MartijnVdS:got it,thank you.
<diddledan_> canonical might IPO?
 * diddledan_ googles
<diddledan_> http://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-shuttleworth-considering-canonical-ipo/
<shauno> lol "We now have a story that the market will understand."
<shauno> the desktop/server/cloud/mobile/container/throw spaghetti at the wall story?
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> well if you substitute the spaghetti... :-P
<popey> evening all
<popey> \o/ free wifi in pubs
<diddledan_> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i don't use free wifi, i don't trust it paranoid sod that i am :-)
 * popey hugs ssl
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was when i went to my first hacker meetup and they announced they had at last minute arranged free wifi... just made my spider sense tingle... :-)
<diddledan_> eep
<diddledan_> yeah free wifi in hacker cons are bad bad
<zmoylan-pi> and sure enough they showed what folks were browsing during the meetup at one of the last talks.
<diddledan_> also check your mobile phones don't connect to random gsm networks
<zmoylan-pi> at the time gsm fake networks were next to impossible.  not impossible but very rare
<zmoylan-pi> there was an android app that could show all the 2g/3g towers in an area so you could check them out
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<selinuxium> morning o/
<MooDoo> hello selinuxium
<daftykins> huzzah! Amazon FireTV stick arrived
<daftykins> already enabled adb and pushing Kodi onto it \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Lindy Hop Day! ð
<SuperMatt> Ah yes, it is
<SuperMatt> and as a semi pro lindy hopper, I can talk all about it :D
<SuperMatt> Today we celebrate Frankie Manning's birthday - the guy who brought Lindy Hop to the world
<daftykins> what even is it o0
<SuperMatt> oh, I can point you to a video of my doing the lindy hop on the paul o'grady show
<SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KESRFkidM
<SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeUmn5ZIA-c
<daftykins> you personally on TV? :)
<SuperMatt> the second video is about as fast as it gets
<SuperMatt> me personally on tv
<MartijnVdS> which one are you?
<daftykins> ^
<SuperMatt> far left
<MartijnVdS> the one with the glasses?
<SuperMatt> yup
<daftykins> neat :D
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the first rule of lindy club was not to talk about lindy club??
<JamesTait> Brilliant, SuperMatt!
<SuperMatt> thank you
<davmor2> JamesTait: 1 2 3 O'clock 4 O'clock ROCK!
<SuperMatt> I can be found dancing with my girlfriend/dance partner on many an occasion around London, and sometimes around the country. If you want to see more, just let me know
<SuperMatt> or if you want to learn
<zmoylan-pi> #LinuxLindyMeetup :-)
<SuperMatt> hah!
<SuperMatt> you make it sound implausible, but as many lindy ladies will attest, most of the guys they meet are geeks
<SuperMatt> without trying to be sexist, it's very uncommon for men to talk to men, and women to talk to women, through virtue of never being face to face for long enough
<daftykins> now for the real question, were the ladies in wigs? :D
<SuperMatt> yes, they were
 * JamesTait feels he has adequately catalysed social intercourse this morning. âº 
<SuperMatt> because they can be styled considerably faster when you're going out live/recorded as live
<daftykins> =]
<SuperMatt> This reminds me, I really need to update the Dance page of my site
<ujjain> [2015-05-26 09:26:42,986] < what could this 986 number be?
<daftykins> lines maybe?
<directhex> context?
<ujjain> Jetty logging, Java server.
<intrbiz> ujjain: it'll be milliseconds probably, Log4J default time pattern is: HH:mm:ss,SSS
<directhex> good catch, intrbiz
<daftykins> comma makes more sense now
<ujjain> ah, could be that yeah
<ujjain> it's always less than 1000 yeah
<intrbiz> ujjain: what is your logging config?
<ujjain> I don't know, just was curious about the 3-characters after seconds
<talv> hey guys how do you know how much swap space to allocate for a machine
<talv> is there like a general rule of thumb?
<Myrtti> depends on if you're using SSD or not
<Myrtti> and how much RAM you've got
<daftykins> if it's a laptop and you want to sleep or hibernate, it must match your RAM
<zmoylan-pi> is it wasted if you make it bigger?
<daftykins> no reason not to put swap on an SSD - i'd say if the above isn't true typically a max of 4GB really - depends what you do
<talv> what about a server
<zmoylan-pi>  /random question from curious watcher
<daftykins> then it depends on what its' typical memory footprint is
<daftykins> and what it'll be running
<talv> i was always told to match the ram but that was a number of years ago wondered if things had changed since then
<daftykins> yeah that stopping being true once we hit 4GB RAM
<shauno> we used to say twice the ram.  but most users's machines have no shortage of ram anymore
<daftykins> if you went to 8GB i'd say half, then no reason to go above 4GB really
<talv> excellent thank you :D
<BigRedS> If you're not suspending I don't really see the point in swap
<BigRedS> ram is so cheap that it's best to make it the case that if you've run out of it then something's gone very wrong and so OOM killer kicking in doesn't add horrendously to your list of problems anyway
<intrbiz> i see little point in swap these days, especially on servers, a server swapping heavily is usually a worse outcome than the process using the memory being killed
<BigRedS> yeah, exactly
<shauno> I treat swap like a gravel trap.  it's nice to have it so you know when you hit it & know to do something about it
<intrbiz> but you need to think about the OOM Killer, set OOM ADJ on important stuff, and possibly vm.overcommit=2
<daftykins> but then we've also had people come in here who allocated no swap and then they wonder why their entire DE freezes
<shauno> instead of everything just going wrong
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: That's deffo millis. Max value is 999 and then it rolls over to the next second.
<intrbiz> presumably millis can hit 1000 when the leap second happens
<zmoylan-pi> or just show 000 a little longer? :-)
<ujjain> right, makes sense
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: What's the big deal about swap on a modern SSD?
<daftykins> those that have read an article or two have latched onto the basic concept of "ZOMG minimise writes to your SSD!" but sadly it's spun out to the point where they all try to avoid even writing to them at all
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: there would have been a followup question if it had been an SSD about what SSD it was, but as it wasn't...
<TwistedLucidity> On *old* SSDs...yeah, might be a point there. And I am pretty sure you could kill an SSD if you were doing a bazillion minor writes for hours on end. But Average user with Average Use Case? Meh, no big.
<Myrtti> anyway back to IKEA puzzles
<Myrtti> (bookcase this time)
<directhex> i am expecting an ikea delivery in 20 mins
<directhex> full of exciting furniture
<directhex> FSVO "exciting"
<zmoylan-pi> all those years of airfix kits and lego is going to pay off :-D
<Myrtti> I finally managed to unpack all my clothes into a wardrobe after living out of a suitcase and vacuum bags for years
<Myrtti> it's an amazing feeling
<Myrtti> with the new bookcase I might be able to unpack my books from the moving boxes. They've been in for over a year now
<zmoylan-pi> then you'll just have an empty box crying out for more books
<BigRedS> Haha, I've sort of got used to all my books being elsewhere and in boxes
<BigRedS> I've sort-of accepted I don't really need them, but I'm a long way from deciding to actually stop owning them
<zmoylan-pi> electronic books are just not the same
<daftykins> it's really tough hitting Ctrl+F in a book i find
<shauno> I'd feel pretty ripped off if they were the same
<zmoylan-pi> i play d&d, we all have tablets with the pdf manuals.  we all have paper copies of the books as they are faster to flick through
<BigRedS> no, but most of my books are non-fiction, so the stuff in them is generally way more accessible via google/wikipedia
<BigRedS> but when you've a reference book I prefer paper to ctrl-Fing in a PDF reader or something. It falls open easily on the answers to questions I repeatedly forget
<zmoylan-pi> it's been able to jump instantly in a paper copy between index and/or multiple pages that ebooks don't do well at
<TwistedLucidity> E-books need away to let you flick to another section (e.g. character list, contents, whatever) and then flick back to wherever you were reading.
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
 * TwistedLucidity does not own an E-reader, but has to listen to the grumbles
<TwistedLucidity> Like pop/pushd for the CLI
<zmoylan-pi> they're better than nothing but i prefer a paper copy
<shauno> horses for courses.
<TwistedLucidity> The batteries of dead-tree tech last longer. But 1,000 dead-tree books is an arse to carry. :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Also, leanding of e-books is hard/illegal. Paper is easy.
<shauno> lending of e-books is easy, paper is difficult :)
<BigRedS> ebooks get a lot of things wrong, too, especially when they're converted from dead-tree. Things like having all the maps or figures in a section at the front of the book
<daftykins> with how people treat things they're loaned? hell no :D
<zmoylan-pi> at the d&d sessions people carry 20 heavy hard back books with them because ereaders can't be as handy yet
<TwistedLucidity> So yeah, you swap one set of problems for a different set. Pick whichever set is the least bother.
<BigRedS> I'd like my kindle to have a 'show pertinent figure' button that I can always use to pop that up
<daftykins> twenty!
<zmoylan-pi> 20
<TwistedLucidity> I want an e-reader that is mine after purchase and not Amazon's/Kobo's/etc
<daftykins> i'm sure i had a Pratchett Discworld novel on Kindle that had links on *'s that jumped to and fro
<zmoylan-pi> and only 1-2 will be used usually.  and the person who hosts the game also has those books
<Myrtti> aby tablet will do that with an ebook reader app
<zmoylan-pi> my discworld books has all the * at end of the book which ruins the flow of the comedy
<daftykins> it was pretty annoying, how'd the print ones handle that?
<zmoylan-pi> they were at the bottom of the page with the *
<daftykins> ah i see
<zmoylan-pi> the really long ones were at bottom of 2-3 pages. but always just there by the text to which they were relevent
<shauno> anyone familiar with "DOSarrest" ?
<Laney> bah
<zmoylan-pi> humbug
<Laney> just got a letter telling me my isa is going to pay 2.15% instead of 2.50%
<knightwise> hey everyone
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi how are you dude :)
<zmoylan-pi> well, yourself?
<knightwise> fighting Ubuntu 15.04 ,
<knightwise> wont install anymore on my mac mini(neither will 14.04) keep getting the error i8042 no controller found
<zmoylan-pi> which version of macmini
<knightwise> erm I think a late 2013 model
<knightwise> I7 , 16 gig , 256 SSD
<MartijnVdS> I just bought one of those IKEA wireless (QI) chargers
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: according to a thread on the forums it does work if you burn it to a dvd
<MartijnVdS> it works! :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: i was thinking of getting one of those :) looks spiffy
 * knightwise resorted to BURNING a DVD to install Ubuntu ...
<knightwise> how primitive
<zmoylan-pi> one day you'll show your kids what a dvd looks like and they'll be amazed that it held so little...
<zmoylan-pi> only 4+gb...
<knightwise> Wasting a Dual Layer dvd on this little stunt ..
<knightwise> *harrumphs*
<zmoylan-pi> could have found a cd based network installer? :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: damn
<knightwise> i didn't think about that.
<awilkins> I just dd the ISO to a USB stick now
<zmoylan-pi> i mean it's a cd... you'd expect to install from floppy next :-)
<knightwise> anyway. I'll be giving elementary a try first . .if that doesnt work i'll pick 'vanalla" ubuntu
 * awilkins wouldn't mind 'Valhalla' Ubuntu
<knightwise> awilkins: thats just it , then i get the error code I8042 no controler found
<knightwise> Ha
<knightwise> wife is cleaning out her desk
<knightwise> k
<knightwise> just walked up to me with a zip drive
<zmoylan-pi> 100 or 250mb?
<knightwise> a zip DISK to be precise
<knightwise> 100 mb
<zmoylan-pi> i wish there was a medium like that still around.  even minidisc at 60mb would be useful for sneakernet and other tasks
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: erm .. thumbdrives ? ?
<zmoylan-pi> thumb drives are often more bulky and not as slim as even zip disks
<knightwise> Sometimes i think they are just too small
<knightwise> and thats why we keep losing them
<zmoylan-pi> you could stick floppies, cds and dvds in books and mags to transport store
<zmoylan-pi> and thumbdrives have the whole 3rd time lucky plugging them in :-D
<zmoylan-pi> though i do have a blurred pic around here somewhere of a zip disk that has been inserted into a zip drive backwards
<popey> Morning
<knightwise> Believe it or not .. but booting from the CD works
<zmoylan-pi> the mac mini is so confused by the cd that it works \o/
<knightwise> yep , i'm starting to think that that is the issue
<Bunny_> hello
<knightwise> hey Bunny_
<Bunny_> hey
<knightwise> Good thing I kept my Usb cd around when I redid my office
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I loved the size of the 3.5 inch floppies :)
<zmoylan-pi> it was designed to fit in a shirt pocket.  a really handy size that stored a lot for it's time.  something similar now with a few gb would be handy
<zmoylan-pi> same size and shape even
<shauno> like an oversized flash drive?
<knightwise> did you know that the datadisks they used in star trek (original series) are the exact same size as a 3.5 inch floppy
<zmoylan-pi> there's a size and shape that fits handily into the hand...
<zmoylan-pi> i remember when some music studio thought of distributing music on memory cards... you'd need a tweezers and magnifying glass to handle your collection :-)
<ujjain> how do I make the timestamp of a file old?
<ujjain>  touch -t hello-this-is-an-old-file 200510071138 did not work
<ujjain> hmm, other way around
<ujjain> first number
<zmoylan-pi> college switches to ubuntu 63% fewer problems... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.muylinux.com/2015/05/12/entrevista-migracion-ubuntu-colegio-fernando-lanero#Web0.001
<knightwise> I"ve got a Dell xps13 on the wishlist for my company investments for this year
<knightwise> gonna take the ubuntu version
<knightwise> Hargh ! Poodoo !!! Now the ubuntu install won't even boot (black screen)
<ali1234> does anyone know an easy way to search my conversations on reddit?
<davmor2> ali1234: google?
<ali1234> i want to find a specific comment that someone posted in reply to me
<davmor2> ali1234: site:reddit.com <subject to search for>
<ali1234> i don't remember the subject or what subreddit it was
<ali1234> i do however remember the user who replied
<ali1234> i need to search for all the times that person has replied to my comments, which is probably like 5 times in total
<davmor2> ali1234: so search for the your nick and their nick maybe?
<ali1234> nope, turns out we post in a lot of the same threads
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ali1234> oh hang on i think i found it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: click your name, see all of your comments?
<ali1234> i have thousands
<ali1234> i found it anyway, it was from 2013
<MartijnVdS> I have a 900-point response from yesterday somehow.. "Han shot first"
<davmor2> ali1234: now favourite it if you need it now you may need it again :D
<ali1234> how?
<davmor2> ali1234: the star in the browser ;)
<ali1234> oh you mean a bookmark
<ali1234> stop using IE :)
<davmor2> ali1234: it's a bit crap that you can't do it in reddit to be honest, but failing that you can just copy the permalink to somewhere you can access it
<ali1234> you can actually, "saved" under a comment
<ali1234> but i mean i didn't know i would need this post until i needed it 18 months later
<davmor2> ali1234: that's normally what happens
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> I want to stay late and get the network switch set-up. Annoyingly I have to leave early today instead
<bigcalm> Not at all a workaholic, am I?
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> i can understand wanting to scratch an itch
<bashrc_> yes
<bigcalm> If openvpn works on Mac and Windows (as well as Linux), then I'm going to use it in the office here
<intrbiz> openvpn rocks
<bigcalm> I thought you might like that
<intrbiz> i use openvpn alot, got quite a few terminated and setup here
<bigcalm> Thinking that we'll have ipsec site to site for a couple of clients and then openvpn for coworkers to log into the office network
<intrbiz> yeh
<bigcalm> Can I use virtual nics on a server or do I have to have physical nics and separate network cables?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what for?
<bigcalm> VPN termination
<bigcalm> I think I may have confused myself at some point
<intrbiz> most VPNs present as tun (or tap) interfaces
<intrbiz> which you can route and firewall between
<bigcalm> The managed switch should then allow me to set-up static routes. So that workstations in the office can connect to remote servers without each having to have static routes rules added
<intrbiz> bigcalm: if it's a L2 managed switch it'll have no concept of routing
<bigcalm> intrbiz: I'm sure I saw static routing in the web interface when I had it running at home
<bigcalm> Only information available about the switch http://www.buycom108.com/PDF/MSW-2402T_ds_english.pdf
<bigcalm> That said, there is help information within the web interface. Handy
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I suspect the routes will be purely for the admin interface, unless you can define IP interfaces on the switch etc
 * bigcalm resists the urge to mess with the switch while other people in the office still require a network connection
<intrbiz> hehe
<bigcalm> :|
<intrbiz> ?
<bigcalm> w/w
<diddledan_> animÃ© ftw. even if it is windows. http://nichegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/windows-10-05-25-15-1.png
<daftykins> diddledan_: what's the date for?
<diddledan_> not sure
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i'm a bit too excited for 10 now, i need to relax and wait for a couple of months before inflicting it upon people i think :>
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> obviously won't be a standard 'SP1'
<diddledan_> for towel day yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/ESASamanthaCristoforetti/videos/vb.326719157533529/389673374571440/?type=2&theater
<daftykins> i.. is she a scot 0o
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> italian
<daftykins> wow.
<knightwise> yo peeps
<marshmn> for driving an external display from a laptop, am I likely to have better luck with display port or HDMI?
<marshmn> laptop has Intel HD on board, and Nvidia 750M discrete
<marshmn> I assume that the display port and HDMI are linked to the Nvidia? (just an assumption on my part)
<daftykins> you'll need to check it directly, i know nvidia's settings control panel shows me what mine are attached via in Windows
<daftykins> i don't think you'll see much difference in support between the two connection types
<daftykins> marshmn: do you know what resolution panel you intend to connect?
<marshmn> daftykins: no, not really - nothing really hi res - it's just for the occasional need to connect to an external projector or something like that
<marshmn> so probably something like 1080p at most
<marshmn> I wasn't sure if Linux supported one better than the other that's all really
<marshmn> I guess I'll have a play
<daftykins> oh so hot plug
<marshmn> yes
<marshmn> does that make a difference?
<daftykins> i've seen people have the odd quirk, but if you're on a new release you might be ok
<marshmn> ok
<marshmn> and still no preference between the two?
<daftykins> nope i don't think so
<marshmn> ok, thanks
<Azelphur> Hmm, anyone here familiar with Motion? I'm wanting to set it up so that it does motion detection, but only when I'm not home.
<Azelphur> I can detect if I'm home easy (if my phone is connected to the lan) the question is how to incorporate that into motion somehow.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-27
<mapps> heylo
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> wanted to try pidora but couldnt get it to boot=
<mapps> =[
<zmoylan-pi> i have a pi2 now but haven't had a chance to boot it yet
<zmoylan-pi> still pootling along on pi b
<mapps> yea i got a pi 2 now :D
<mapps> 6x faster they say7
<ali1234> Azelphur: start and stop the service
<diddledan> morning
<mapps> morn
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> anyone use fb with bitlbee who can confirm, fb has stopped working, please.
<diddledan> brobostigon: fb's xmpp interface is defunct
<brobostigon> diddledan: i know, that doesnt stop me from using it.
<brobostigon> or trying to.
<diddledan> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/chat
<diddledan> specifically: "After April 30th, 2015 apps will no longer be able to access the service or API. This includes both access to chat.facebook.com and the xmpp_login permission."
<brobostigon> i know, but it has been working the last few weeks, and has stopped working at some point overnight.
<MartijnVdS> they probably turned off the servers/access to them?
<brobostigon> thats what i was guessing as well, but i just needed confirmation form someone else.
<diddledan> it's very-close to 4-weeks since april 30th so I'm guessing they might have given a 4week grace period
<diddledan> the point remains their documentation says the servers are turned-off on april 30th so expecting it to work seems a bit.. nieve?
<brobostigon> i was expecting it to shutdown, i was just using it for my convienence as long as i could.
<ali1234> brobostigon: still appears to be working with pidgin
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, let me try pidgin.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Senior Health & Fitness Day! ð
<popey> alright grandad
<JamesTait> I feel like it this morning. ð
<davmor2> popey: you can talk you are older than me or JamesTait :P admittedly I am the Grandad
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> blimey, you're early
<bigcalm> intrbiz: the switch only goes to L2 and I can see no routing settings. Bum. At least we can have vlans and separate company from rented desks
<bigcalm> popey: I don't know what's wrong with me. I might have to go back into hiding
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I expected that would be the case
<MooDoo> hello all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<bigcalm> intrbiz: I just found a wee Netgear ProSafe VPN Firewall FVS114. Will be able to do IPsec in a box without messing with strongwall
<intrbiz> bigcalm: fair enough
<bigcalm> Hope I can still do openvpn from a server within the network
<intrbiz> sure, buy you'll need something to cope with all the routing
<intrbiz> but*
<bigcalm> I'm starting to wonder if the free switch was worth having
<intrbiz> haha
<bigcalm> While we can do vlans on the switch, I don't see a way of saying what subnets each vlan is to use
<diplo> Anyone recommend a place to get laptop replacement screens ?
<diplo> Found a few, just wondering if anyone has used anywhere in particular :)
<bigcalm> Ah, I think I get it. I can create 2 vlans and assign ports to them. Plug the switch into the firewall twice - assigning those ports to the specific vlans as well. Then on the firewall brick, assign subnets to the ports
<bigcalm> I should have ordered 2 colours of 50cm patch leads :|
<bigcalm> Small bits of electrical tape will have to do
<bigcalm> Handy there being a Maplin shop in town
<bigcalm> diplo: each time I've had a bad screen, it's been cheaper to buy a new laptop
<diplo> Â£40 for replacement
<diplo> Also not my laptop, and they don't have much cash, single mum :)
<diplo> And I certainly can't afford one :D
<zmoylan-pi> plug in to external screen?
<diplo> Not portable then, shes doing a OU course and using kids laptop currently
<bigcalm> intrbiz: we've been given permission to use a jump host for SSH. Saves me maintaining the network set-up here
<bigcalm> That said, I'm still going to set-up the 2 vlans and subnets
<bigcalm> I should learn this stuff
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I'll explain this evening (assuming your still coming along).  But VLANs are at layer 2 and add a tag on the front of an ethernet frame, eseentially 2 vlans gives you 2 switches
<bigcalm> intrbiz: righto
<bigcalm> intrbiz: our code server is having fun with its memory usage
<bigcalm> intrbiz: and yes,  I'll be there tonight
<bigcalm> moreati: have Google approached you yet?
<moreati> no
<bigcalm> Aww
<moreati> I'm half expecting Copresence - the API that powers Tone - to be properly announced/revealed at Google IO tomorrow
<bigcalm> I assume that there have been others trying to work it out as well as you
<moreati> If they have, we haven't crossed paths
<ujjain> equity = basically everything you can invest in?
<ujjain> or bonds not equity?
<ujjain> Vanguard FTSE Developed World ex-UK < and how can FTSE be ex-UK? isn't the FTSE the UK index?
<popey> bigcalm: it's the beer train! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxky0Kjh_Z0
<bigcalm>  Hehe
<bigcalm> I think they've had one too many
<popey> hah
<diddledan> I'm getting fancy with go
<diddledan> we have a client who has insisted on a specific provider for their sites. this provider insists that we only access the dev and live environments (via access controls they implemented) using sftp. sftp is inherently unscriptable. so I'm writing my own client using go
<zmoylan-pi> is that not reinventing the wheel a little?  has noone done that already?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: sftp as in ye olde ftp + some SSL, or sftp as in ssh's ftp-a-like
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: because the ssh one is very scriptable from Perl :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: sftp as in ftp over ssh
<diplo> If you like perl :)
<diddledan> and perl >.<
<MartijnVdS> paramiko can probably do it in python too if you must
<diddledan> I don't like perl
<diddledan> what's wrong with go?
<MartijnVdS> http://paramiko-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api/sftp.html
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it came out after the projects I'm working on started.. and a rewrite is too expensive ;)
<diplo> I've used it with python
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> well yeah I'm doing it go so nyer!
<diddledan> :-p
<diplo> Never touched it myself, keep meaning to take a look
<diddledan> this is my first attempt at writing anything meaningful in go
<diddledan> it's quite nice
<Azelphur> question folks, is it easy to make a shell account that can only run a whitelist of commands?
<intrbiz> Azelphur: usually seems to be don't by writing a custom shell, eg: git shell, etc
<Azelphur> you mean done?
<intrbiz> sorry, yes
<intrbiz> s/don't/done/
<Azelphur> yea, that's what I was thinking, guess I'll do that
<intrbiz> Azelphur: what are you trying to do?
<Azelphur> intrbiz: I'm using attic for backups, it'd be nice to have an account on the backup machine that is only allowed to create and prune backups. Nothing else.
<intrbiz> Azelphur: right, simple perl script should do the job then
<Azelphur> yea, makes sense :)
<intrbiz> Azelphur: you can also define specific commands which can be executed with SSH keys, and then ban a full shell
<Azelphur> yea
<bigcalm> Is there a nice tool that will generate relationship diagrams for an existing MySQL database?
<MartijnVdS> postgresql has postgresql-autodoc
<MartijnVdS> maybe mysql-autodoc exists?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: can't mysql workbench do that?
<bigcalm> Yes, and managed it.
<bigcalm> Strangely not what our PM wanted though
<mapps> night bus time
<mapps> bet theres some right charaters on this
<daftykins> where are you today, mapps ?
<mapps> UK
<mapps> back to gib friday
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> very cold here sucks
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i saw 15 deg C on my phone today for here
<daftykins> boiling now ;)
<mapps> how warm is it normally there
<mapps> here its like ugh this sucks walked to gym in shorts and got cold;[
<daftykins> that's about right, maybe hit 20ish a few times in a couple of months if we're 'lucky'
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i'm ok in shorts and t-shirt from 12 deg
<mapps> shorts and tsirt eeryday in gib
<daftykins> thing is i get overheated just riding somewhere in sunshine @ 15 deg
<daftykins> most people think about temp as being car drivers i think, no real energy expended
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> picking some new TV setup hardware for the boss' Spain place atm
<mapps> where in spain
<daftykins> must-have for work - http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aMroNYx_460s.jpg
<daftykins> mapps: some Marina east of Malaga
<diddledan> ebenink
<daftykins> hallo
<diddledan> mygo sftp client is ALIVE!
<diddledan> my go**
<diddledan> this rocks!
<diddledan> it's currently experimentally downloading and tar.gzipping a copy of a site
<daftykins> :o
<diddledan> my code occupies, including whitespace, about 250 lines - obviously the libraries I'm calling-on take a bit more than that tho
<diddledan> I still need to do the upload bit
<diddledan> I'm just testing that the download/backup feature works first before I start nuking files on a remote server :-p
<daftykins> i'm watching manvsgame on twitch!
<diddledan> hmmm, seems I'm scanning the directory tree twice for every folder?
<diddledan> oddness
<diddledan> needs some massaging methinks
<daftykins> yus!
<daftykins> what is the scan operation, a list on traversing in?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> ls, cd, ls
<diddledan> ok, it seems my code was needlessly recursing
<daftykins> do you enjoy the metals, sir?
<diddledan> the metals as in aluminum and iron? :-p
<daftykins> ah yes you raise a fair point, i suppose you're not in my head to know what i'm harping on about
<daftykins> the musical variety!
<daftykins> shauno would probably warn me if you were in my head, though
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> yeah I don't mind a bitta metals
<daftykins> https://soundcloud.com/carpenter_brut/the-good-old-call
 * diddledan clicks
<daftykins> give that a try
<diddledan> remind me to turn down the volume before clicking random links :-p
<daftykins> hey diddledan check your volume!
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> whys it so slow copyin files over usb to y nexus
<daftykins> tablet?
<daftykins> MTP is pretty pants
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but like real slow 20mins for 3gig
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> i wonder how quick the boss' USB 3 phone is
<daftykins> ugly connector on those though
<daftykins> USB 3 micro B
<mapps> toshiba satelite 8gig ram win8
<mapps> amd a4 6210
<mapps> maybe i need new drivers for the usb
<daftykins> ewwMD
<daftykins> nope
<mapps> lol
<mapps> i like AMB so shush:D
<mapps> so what then
<mapps> AMD
<daftykins> is it internal storage only or a microSD via MTP?
<mapps> if not drivers what can i check
<mapps> its on the nexu7s
<daftykins> nothing, you just have to accept it's pants
<mapps> transferring from laptop -> nexus
<mapps> so this is normal? O_o
<daftykins> yip
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-28
<diddledan> m00
<mapps> moo
<mapps> gonna watch Maggie now
<diddledan> maggie thatcher?
<mapps> nah arnie film
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1881002/
<diddledan> hah, I just reminded myself of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDMSound
<diddledan> that takes me way back!
<diddledan> ah yes, I added maggie to my magic-machine a while back. It's still hunting for it.
<daftykins> just roll on down to Blockbuster
 * daftykins giggles
<diddledan> I've been wandering over the windows uservoice feedback/voting site - looking specifically at console-related features. I've just posted my own awesome idea for them to consider: https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/suggestions/8138868-decouple-cmd-and-powershell-from-main-windows-upda
<daftykins> o rry
<diddledan> and another: https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt/suggestions/8139015-cmd-powershell-windows-thingies-o
<mapps> 108gb of csi eps comng wn atm
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> must be pauper quality ;)
<diddledan> what do we want? moar thingies!
<mapps> hdt
<mapps> v
<diddledan> ooh, it's googley IO today
<mapps> not 720p/1080 but thats enough for me
<daftykins> ;/
<daftykins> i've got a handful of eps from years ago of CSI, never tried though
<daftykins> i tried the first episode of the amazon Prime Instant Video interpretation of 'Bosch' the book series though the other day
<daftykins> that was kinda neat
<diddledan_> and I'mback in the room!
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan_> s/room/channel./
<daftykins> "oh hey i'll save power by turning my right LCD off..."
<daftykins> *goes to type*
<daftykins> oh yeah, kb + mouse receiver plugged into that one Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> (USB)
<diddledan_> oops
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> I do silly things like that
<zmoylan-pi> press f1 to continue... :-)
<daftykins> my cat is asleep on a towel on the floor
<daftykins> it's for wash so that's ok but, damn how many places does a cat need a bed :D
<diddledan_> always know where your towel is!
<daftykins> sweet she likes to always be nea rme though i guess
<zmoylan-pi> see the new japanese hoodies with a pouch for kitties?
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i have not
<diddledan_> I am struggling to remain family friendly
<daftykins> i wonder if she'd like the pouch in normal hoodies XD
<daftykins> http://geekologie.com/2015/05/22/cat-pouch-hoodie-1.jpg
<daftykins> wow.
<diddledan_> nawww
<diddledan_> too koote
<diddledan_> that's a really pretty cat, too
<diddledan_> I like how the strings on the hood are cat-toy-style
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> you could probably stow a laptop there when kitty isn't using it :-)
<daftykins> that's usually why she's not on the lap to begin with
<daftykins> laptop has beaten her to it
<daftykins> ok i should not be here!
<daftykins> g'night o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan_> I should prolly get a bitta shuteye
<diddledan_> I'm going on 48 hours
<zmoylan-pi> i've had my 4 hours of sleep :-/
<mapps> woah
<mapps> 48hrs
<mapps> no sleep?!
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> finally got elementary installed on the mac mini
<knightwise> took me a friggin dvd install do get it done
<mapps> ;]
<knightwise> I swear , Ive been doing some linux-rage quits lately ...
<knightwise> somehow it seems to be fighting me every step of the way.
<knightwise> Just now it won't come out of suspend, I still have an issue where I get dropped into grub after i boot (when I type exit it just boots)
<knightwise> and the ati driver messes up Chrome untill i do a complete redraw of the window
<knightwise> This stuff used to be a tad more reliable.
<knightwise> I'm on the very cusp of getting me a dell xps13 and now i'm serioiusly considering buying the Windows version and just running Ubuntu in a fullscreen VM
<knightwise> I am starting to understand why a lot of linux enthousiasts love the chromebook so muchn.
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morining
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<bigcalm> intrbiz: do you want a Shropgeek t-shirt?
<davmor2> MooDoo: ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad
<MooDoo> you?
<davmor2> looking forward to friday week off woohoo!
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Amnesty International Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> \o MooDoo
<diddledan_> *yawn*
<JamesTait> My sentiments exactly.
<diddledan_> I wonder what shiny we're in-store for from googley hi-ho (IO) later today?
 * dutchie looking forward to the second test match more!
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is a day for everyone but why celebrate those who Am Nasty :D On a more serious note a sensible day to celebrate \o/
<JamesTait> davmor2, Yow am nasty. ð
<diddledan_> this is a bit of politics for ya'll: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/kubuntu-project-lead-asked-to-step-down-by-ubuntu-community-council
<davmor2> JamesTait: Have I ever declared myself anything else ð
<JamesTait> To be fair, no, you haven't. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: In fact I declare myself as evil to the core :D
<JamesTait> Yeah, but we all know you're soft as...
<davmor2> JamesTait: shhh don't let on that I really care about stuff
 * JamesTait zips it.
<intrbiz> bigcalm: oh yes
<bigcalm> intrbiz: what size? I took a large
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: Take the lot of them into a quiet room, bash some heads together, solve problem. Storm/teacup
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> I kinda see both sides but if the decisions of the UCC aren't upheld then it defeats the purpose of having the council
<MooDoo> seems like someone has it in for jonathn
<TwistedLucidity> All I know is that JR asked for clarification on some point and didn't accept the answer for whatever reason. What I can't seem to find anywhere is what JR actually *did* to get peoples' backs up.
<TwistedLucidity> Did he call the UCC "Big, stinky poos" or something?
<popey> because the cc list isn't public
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Ah, OK. Well that explains that then
<popey> so any mails to the cc are private
<popey> although scottk seems to have published some of them
<TwistedLucidity> I can see the headlines now "popey admits UCC is clandestine cabal!" :-P
<popey> having been on the cc in the past, yeah, sure, whatever
<TwistedLucidity> popey: It was a joke playing on the tabloid press penchant for making screaming headlines out of nothing.
<intrbiz> bigcalm: XL I expect
<popey> sure
<TwistedLucidity> I actually expect the whole thing to blow over in a month or so once the dust settles and emotions abate. These things usually do.
<bigcalm> intrbiz: okay, I'll let Kirsty know and she'll bring one along on Monday
<popey> perhaps
<intrbiz> bigcalm: cool ok
<popey> some people have invested some effort on stirring this up
<popey> I don't see those individuals dropping it
<TwistedLucidity> Wouldn't that be against the CoC?
<popey> some people skirt close to the code of conduct
<popey> but it's not just about a set of rules codified in the coc
<popey> it's about people being respectful to others, and being someone you can work with
<popey> i think the CC felt it couldn't work with riddell
<popey> so whether that's a CoC violation or not, it's not a tenable situation
<diddledan_> I read that he's still allowed to be a developer, just not lead.
<popey> Yes.
<TwistedLucidity> Indeed not. I just hope cooler heads prevail. It is very easy to miss nuance in dead-text and fly off the handle. Or simply mis-type in haste.
<diddledan_> there's leadership changes all the time in the business world so I fail to see why it's such a big deal when it happens in community projects
<popey> Because the CC were careful not to a) publicly berate him (making future employment harder) and b) prevent him doing his current job
<popey> Bit that's all broken by the manufactured rage.
<popey> and the cc are blamed, despite specifically attempting to reduce the public impact
<popey> also, canonical are blamed, and so is mark
<popey> so yeah, great
<bashrc_> what's the actual problem?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Canoncial are *always* blamed! :-D
<popey> group A finding person B difficult to work with
<popey> true dat
<popey> group A tells person B they don't recognise his authority anymore.
<popey> <internet explodes>
<bashrc_> just another day on irc
<popey> group A get blamed for other things, whole thing gets spun by people who aren't involved, but inject themselves into the situation to stir the pot
<popey> nobody wins
<popey> EOF
<TwistedLucidity> popey: We have these explosions all the time. Linus and whatshisname from systemd for example (the kernel spamming thing)
<popey> ya
<popey> lennart
<diddledan_> the register insisted on denigrating Ubuntu in general by referring to us all as "Umbongo land"
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Nah, wasn't thinking him. Just can't recall the dev's name. Not that is matters, all sorted now.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: It's El Reg...what, you expect journalism?
<Laney> I think it's worth at least trying to understand the Kubuntu Council's reaction
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> point. well made.
<Laney> One of their colleagues was removed from his position, and as far as they saw it the decision came out of the blue
<Laney> I don't think in that sense the anger is manufactured
<TwistedLucidity> It's part of the reason I read El Reg. You know a good 50% of the time they have the toungue firmly in their cheek.
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: refering to Kay Sievers there
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: yeah it makes me giggle, too
<davmor2> Laney: no it wasn't, the cc and kc were in communications, it was Scott of the KC that published the info that kicked off all the fuss
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Ah, was that who? But like I say, issue now seems to be resolved. Spat -> Swearing (well, Linus was involved) -> Thought -> Resolution
<Laney> davmor2: They were informed of a decision after it had been made
<Laney> If you read the emails they repeatedly ask for it to be put on hold so that it can be discussed
<popey> I agree not telling the KC was a mistake.
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: he is one of the systemd devs, Linus tore into him over systemd hooking the 'debug' kernel commandline flag
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Yup. And IIRC the kernel now has guards against being spammed to death *and* systemd use a different flag or something like that. Another storm/teacup.
<TwistedLucidity> Communications break down, people reach for handbags. Same with this CC/KC thing. Give it a month or so and it will all be resolved.
<JamesTait> Laney, I read it as KC: We're not happy about this. UCC: OK, let's talk about it. KC: Not until you re-instate JR. UCC: Well, let's talk about that as well. KC: No deal. Re-instate JR or we're not talking.
<JamesTait> Stand-off ensues.
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: yes systemd has a separate flag, all of Linus' rants are storms in teacups
<TwistedLucidity> Person A says '1', person B undertands 'square root of pi cubed"...pandemonium ensures.
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: I'd be honoured to be at the end of a Linus rant, would mean I'm worthy of ranting at!
<intrbiz> hehe
<directhex> "criticism is not acceptable, you must be replaced by someone who will smile & nod more" isn't a good look
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Can't conclude that from the information at hand IMHO
<JamesTait> It's a shitstorm that certainly could have been handled better, probably would have been resolved in private had things been left to run their course, but got stirred up by the usual suspects fanning the flames from the sidelines.
<intrbiz> you can hardly remove a project lead 'privately', hence the whole issue
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Maybe that's a fault of process then. Perhaps there should be some kind of "airing of grievances" prior to such an action?
<TwistedLucidity> Give both parties a chance to explain themselves. More often that not, that solves the issue if both parties wish to be reasonable.
<bashrc_> a grudge match?
<TwistedLucidity> Great, now I have MTV's Deathmatch in my head!
<intrbiz> you'd expect the CC to at least provide an example of what they thought was against the CoC
<bashrc_> yes
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Maybe they did, but depending on the content it may not be appropriate to make it public.
<bashrc_> so they had some disagreement in private?
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: sure, at least with Linus' rants they are all public
<Laney> He could have done everything they said of him, but the problem that Scott K (mainly) was expressing is that there was a secret trial
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: People kind of expect that from Linus though, and he only rants at people/projects who should know better. Can you imagine the press if the CC/Canoncial/Mark went off on one in public?
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: by their own logic they'd need to remove themselves if they did
<Laney> The leak predictably resulted in a zillion different and not all relevant discussions
<directhex> linus's "management style", if you want to call it that, is reprehensible. he gets a free pass because i don't know
<directhex> outside FOSSland, terms like "gross professional misconduct" and "constructive dismissal" would be applicable
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: That'd be funny, is a tragic sort of way.
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Err...not in my experience.
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: then you work for terrible people who need a better HR dept
<intrbiz> directhex: lkml has a vast amount of traffic, Linus's rants aren't all that frequent
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Same in every company I've experienced. Sometimes a harsh dressing-down is called for, when it is targeted, repeated and/or without justification; that's a problem
<TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: But it's newsworthy. As is this CC/KC thing, so it gains traction.
<directhex> but that describes linus to a tee
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: indeed
<davmor2> hey Laney I never did ask how are the windows now?
<Laney> need to paint the frames
<Laney> and the walls :(
<Laney> but the windows themselves are good!
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: Wooden?
<Laney> ya
<Laney> the windows themselves are "wood effect" pvc
<Laney> but the rest is wood
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: How hard was it to find someone to do the work? I have double-glazed wooden windows on a listed building that'll need done soon(ish)
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, "wood effect"? Rats.
<Laney> oh I got some quotes for timber windows too
<Laney> but they were about twice as expensive so went for this
<Laney> you're best off going to specialist companies for that
<TwistedLucidity> I thought so
 * TwistedLucidity sobs into wallet
<Laney> most double glazing companies buy and install uPVC units
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah...I'd have the council one to me so fast it would not be funny.
<Laney> we were looking at >>4k for 5 windows
<TwistedLucidity> Whut?
<Laney> that's timber fake sash ones
<TwistedLucidity> So Â£8k for proper timber sash one? Flippin' eck!
<directhex> windows are silly expensive
<Laney> real sash would be more
<Laney> not worth it imho
<TwistedLucidity> I have no choice
<directhex> like Â£600 each for basic upvc
<Laney> the fake ones look the same from the outside
<directhex> cheaper to brick everything up & get some posters that look like outside
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: Would still be a breach of the listing
<Laney> srsly
<Laney> never buy a listed building 8\/
<directhex> i considered replacing one static window with an openable one so i could get power outside... decided to just rip up a bush & get an external socket fitted instead
<directhex> fraction of the cost
<TwistedLucidity> Has some advantages. For starters, it looks nice!
<TwistedLucidity> I'll have to hire a cherry picker as well. Guess I should speak with the management company as well. If my windows need done, others will too. A job-lot would probably be cheaper.
<zmoylan-pi> can't you just put a few boxes on a stool on chair on top of a ladder like most? :-P
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> afternoodlings knightwise
<diddledan_> nudes?
<diddledan_> ohmyy
<brobostigon> noodle monster.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , diddledan_
<diddledan_> allo
 * diddledan_ anticipating googley news
<diddledan_> the seven-dwarfs conference starts in a few hours (Googley IO IO it's off to work we go)
<knightwise> hmm.. i'm at the very verge of buying a dell XPS13 but i'm kinda getting cord feet
 * brobostigon updates his pebble sdk to first non-beta v.3
<knightwise> cold feet
<diddledan_> knightwise: I'm chilly too :-p
<knightwise> I'm gonna have to use it for the company (and take it to meetings and such).. and currently i'm seriously considering getting a surface pro3 and running ubuntu in a fullscreen VM.
 * brobostigon is warm, its 15c
<knightwise> I'm starting to realise that (especially if you have non-compliant hardware) that a VM is a more stable environment.
<knightwise> perhaps its herecy to say so ...
<diddledan_> there were rumours several years ago about xen planning a solution that would enable a laptop to run multiple fully-hardware-accelerated (gfx etc) desktop operating systems with seamless switching between them via a hotkey
<diddledan_> i.e. not what we currently have with an os within an os
<knightwise> I run elementary in a full screen VM on my macbook pro. I can literally swipe between operating systems using a 2 finger swipe on my mouse.
<knightwise> I'm ok to tinker and experiment with linux on 'unsupported' hardware when i'm working for Knightwise.com and geeking out .. but when i'm in a company meeting ....
<knightwise> im not sure if I dare to take ubuntu out on "the bare metal'
<diddledan_> yeah but that's still os-within-vm-on-an-os
<diddledan_> the concept I want is the efi boots into a hypervisor which then starts desktop operating systems all on the same level - i.e. you don't have "one super desktop which has dom0 privileges"
<diddledan_> I want all the installed operating systems to be equivalent to xen's domU privilege
<diddledan_> that way each can be independantly rebooted and you don't have a situation where one desktop gets an update and suddenly you need to shutdown every guest and reboot the entire system
<MooDoo> I use ubunt/kvm and glusterfs on my servers at home :D
<knightwise> diddledan_: that is indeed a cool way to work.
<diddledan_> ubunt. That's Ubu NT the successor to Ubu 98/Me?
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> </troll>
<knightwise> i'm starting to see that with the advent of cloud computing a lot of my workflows are becoming OS agnostic anyway and right now i'm more leaning toward a "unified" device
<diddledan_> knightwise: ditto
<knightwise> diddledan_: as aposed to ubu Gold and ubu SE
<diddledan_> <heretical> I'm enjoying win10 :-o
<knightwise> diddledan_: so am i
<knightwise> MS is not doing a bad job lately
 * zmoylan-pi banishes knightwise and diddledan_ to installing vista from floppy once though it will feel like forever.... :-)
<knightwise> Nooooh !! I will jump into the mouth of the allmighty sarlack .. but not vista on a floppy
<zmoylan-pi> 5.25" floppy...
<knightwise> It burrrrnnssss ussss ! (Golumn impression)
<zmoylan-pi> and of course the 2nd last disk will be wonky
<zmoylan-pi> but that wasn't my doing :-D
<knightwise> Seriously ; think about it. You take a Surface pro 3 (with the cool form factor) and you get the portability and the hybrid form factor.
<zmoylan-pi> with windows... i'd rather a zx81 with ram pack wobble
<knightwise> I know , that bothers me too that it has "windows"
<knightwise> but it will run linux fullscreen in a vm perfectly when it comes to hardware support
<TheGeek> Afternoon
<bigcalm> intrbiz: the prosafe firewall fvs114 doesn't appear to be able to route vlans per port. Not sure what my next option is
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ah, use the micro-server?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: I guess so
<bigcalm> intrbiz: add an extra nic or do it all with the one onboard?
<intrbiz> either will work, adding a dual port nic might be the easiest approach
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00965J4TS and use the low profile bracket included
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what slot do you have? is it low profile?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Proliant N54L
<bigcalm> I think
<bigcalm> 40L
<bigcalm> N40L
<bigcalm> http://n40l.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Hardware_N40L
<intrbiz> bigcalm: or: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-412651-001-NC360T-PCIe-Dual-Port-Gigabit-Server-Adapter-Half-Height-/131514202432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e9edb7940
<bigcalm> Or use a usb nic to play around with - reconfiguring the internals of the proliant aren't an every day activity
<intrbiz> yeh
<intrbiz> bigcalm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-EXPI9402PTGL20-Pro-1000-Dual-Port-Gigabit-PCI-E-Low-Profile-Network-Card/111677371876?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D6d307a65a97c4ce1a96683cd6e2b4895%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D121658376022
<bigcalm> Tempting to buy it just for my own amusement
<popey> you are easily amused
<bigcalm> popey: this is well known
 * bigcalm wonders what is wrong with this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3Com-3500-48-port-100-Mbit-Network-Switch-Layer-2-3-Fully-Managed-Rackmounted-/201330364499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ee0399053
<MartijnVdS> they're 100 mbit
<MartijnVdS> people want gigabit now, at least
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 1000 is over kill in this office
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: where I'm from, office internet speeds are at least 250Mbit/s
<MartijnVdS> so gigabit is kind of required
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: lucky you, some of us stuggled to get 8Mb/s
<intrbiz> bigcalm: go at least for the 3com 4500, can get them for about Â£20 for 10/100
<bigcalm> Righto
<bigcalm> I just searched ebay for layer 3 switch
<intrbiz> bigcalm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3COM-3CR17561-91-SUPERSTACK-3-SWITCH-4500-26-PORT-2x-SFP-/171026058111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d1f28b7f
<intrbiz> bigcalm: or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3Com-4500-50-Port-/281691959506?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41962630d2
<bigcalm> Goodness
<intrbiz> I use a 4500 at home, routing pushed into it, note you still need a dhcp server somewhere
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> No switches with dhcp in them?
<intrbiz> nope
<intrbiz> they have a relay agent
<bigcalm> I guess I'm after a managed switch & firewall
<bigcalm> Maybe the managed switch we have is fine and I just need to find the right firewall that will do multiple vlans
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: some routerboard device?
<MartijnVdS> I have a RB1100AHx2 as a firewall/router/magic box
<bigcalm> I have one of these at home: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005UGRIIG
<bigcalm> Though I don't remember paying that much for it
 * bigcalm gets back to work
<diddledan_> I bought a couple intel I1300 dual-gigabit nics a while back - they seem super stable
<diddledan_> afact intel is the way to go for ootb support on virtually every operating system out there
<intrbiz> diddledan_: or realtek
<intrbiz> perf difference of emulated realtek vs e1000 vs virtio on KVM is quite significant
<diddledan_> aren't realteks usually just a media adapter that then does all the actual grunt work on your cpu?
<diddledan_> like a winmodem did for telephones
<intrbiz> diddledan_: yeh, realteks use the CPU more than the Intel or Broadcoms do
<diddledan_> the intels I got offload a ton of stuff from the cpu from what I can see
<intrbiz> diddledan_: but for modern CPUs it's not massive, Linux doesn't support much more offload than checksums
<diddledan_> aah
<diddledan_> that's a shame :-p I like offloading stuff from cpu to ASICs
<intrbiz> some cards will do TCP offloading etc and iSCSI offloading, but the mainline doesn't want to support that
<diddledan_> grr @ kernel
<intrbiz> diddledan_: the argument is well reasoned
<intrbiz> concerns over the hooks they'd need to put into the networking layer, the binary blobs they'd need and security issues
<intrbiz> essentially you need to trust the NIC firmware with alot more
<diddledan_> that's a good point
<diddledan_> now if we re-wrote the firmware with open sauce stuff.... :-p
<intrbiz> indeed
<intrbiz> however trying to get broadcom to do that.....
<diddledan_> I occasionally have a look at the openboot to see how they're progressing - seems they're moving very slowly
<diddledan_> or is it called coreboot now?
<diddledan_> I forget
<intrbiz> something like that
<intrbiz> some chromebooks use coreboot
<diddledan_> http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot
<diddledan_> that's it, coreboot
<intrbiz> I'd love to see opensourced BCM and lights outs cards
<intrbiz> s/BCM/BMC/
<diddledan_> they're evil for security aparently
<diddledan_> full of holes
<intrbiz> yeh that talk scared me quite alot
<intrbiz> especially as in my IBMs you can't disabled intels fecking BMC networking
<ali1234_> what does this mean? http://imgur.com/bVjvy11
<daftykins> permissions on disk are set that differ to the current user? guess that'd be one step after
<diddledan_> http://gmailblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/thanks-to-you-inbox-by-gmail-is-now.html
<MartijnVdS> Why do they use a razor blade for "Booking reference" (watch that first animation)
<popey> thats a ticket
<MartijnVdS> still looks like a razor blade though?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/28-510_2_rgb_4.jpg
<popey> http://st.depositphotos.com/1027945/4345/v/950/depositphotos_43452709-Admit-One-Vintage-Paper-Tickets.jpg
<popey> i think it's supposed to be that
<MartijnVdS> popey: could be, the "Entertainment" category in the Play Store has the same icon.
<MartijnVdS> And "razor blades" to mean "entertainment" is a bit.. twisted.
<shauno> I miss the days when people wrote email clients that actually worked with email servers, instead of gmail servers
<MartijnVdS> shauno: gmail will happily speak SMTP or IMAP?
<shauno> I guess google at least have an excuse, but dropbox's Mailbox stuff does this too
<daftykins> dropbox added a silly comments feature that revealed real names beside shared public link images
<daftykins> this made me sad
<shauno> I more mean the other way around, clients that'll only work with gmail
<shauno> but .. gmail speaks IMAP the same way italians speak english.  badly & begrudgingly
<daftykins> i like the webmail :>
<MartijnVdS> shauno: then use Microsoft's offering :)
<daftykins> i have chrome installed solely to view my gmail
<MartijnVdS> I've been using Inbox for a few months now. *LOVE* it.
<shauno> it looks like it could be fun to play with, but I won't hand my email over to google
<popey> http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2015/05/data-furnaces-arrive-in-europe-free-heating-if-you-have-fibre-internet/
<popey> neat
<popey> someone elses server in your house, you get the "free" heat
<MartijnVdS> I saw that on Click last week
<MartijnVdS> they interviewed a Dutch family who had one of these things installed
<mapps> well
<mapps> got postfix dovecot spamassasin and squirrelmail working
<mapps> but sendin email goes nowhere :)
<Myrtti> bah, my left speaker has stopped working
<mapps> :(
<davmor2> mapps: then something isn't working then :P
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i should be able to send email using my own smtp server? recieving it well i only have an IP so woul have to email the IP directly?
<mapps> ah
<mapps> <markaplant@icloud.com>: host mx4.mail.icloud.com[17.158.8.51] said: 550 5.7.1
<mapps>     Mail from IP 151.229.3.205 was rejected due to listing in Spamhaus PBL. For
<mapps> looks like my IP range is in some spam range
<m0nkey_> I wouldn't feel bad not being able to send mail to icloud :)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> does anyone even use icloud as their main email recepticle?!
 * Myrtti squints at popey 
<m0nkey_> I'm still trying to get off Gmail. It's harder than it appears
<m0nkey_> Everything I use is Google mostly everything
 * m0nkey_ loves his mechanical keyboard
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> I have a bit of a softspot for chiclet keyboards :-p
<m0nkey_> Bah. Mech or go home :P
<m0nkey_> I'm becoming a keyboard snob
<m0nkey_> So, I've found the best way to buy one. Spend around 60 days researching mechs, get drunk and go shopping on Amazon.
<diddledan_> drunk shopping is where shauno gets in so much trouble :-p
<shauno> hey, I like my monkey
<diddledan_> shauno: do you spank him? </nsfw>
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: that sounds like an improvement to our purchase flow of getting *anything*
<m0nkey_> lol
<Myrtti> it's about 670 days faster, for a start
<mapps> I use my icloud email for bills and stuff
<diddledan_> lol
<m0nkey_> Is Mr Myrtti keeping his wallet firmly closed?
<Myrtti> no, we both just procrastinate and do overly thorough homework on what to buy
 * diddledan_ wonders what Myrtti has her eyes set on that mr Myrtti won't agree to
<m0nkey_> Bring him over to mine, we'll open a bottle of scotch, then go on a shopping spree!
<Myrtti> you know well he doesn't drink anything :-P
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> even better, less tolerence
<m0nkey_> Well, I got a bottle of Ribena that needs drinking.
<mapps> hmm
<diddledan_> mm, beena
<Myrtti> but hey, I've got a bookcase now for my books
<Myrtti> so I've unpacked the moving boxes
<mapps> got a USB OTG cable and a formatted us stick as fat32..yet cant get it to show on my phone
<m0nkey_> Can you believe it, I can actually get that stuff at my local supermarket!
<mapps> :(
<Myrtti> and a wardrobe for my clothes
<Myrtti> so I've unpacked the vacuum bags
<Myrtti> took only year and a bit from moving to UK...
<m0nkey_> About time he let you move in. lol
<Myrtti> the wardrobes are lush though
<m0nkey_> btw, the family and I are planning out trip to England next year. We'll have to talk nearer the time so we can swing by.
<m0nkey_> *out/our
<m0nkey_> (see, even with this fancy keyboard.. I still can't type)
<Myrtti> deffo
<mapps> england
<mapps> what a joke
<mapps> ie been back a few days and dont miss it
<mapps> ;D
<m0nkey_> Yet you hang in #ubuntu-uk :-P
<m0nkey_> So you clearly miss part of it
<m0nkey_> :D
<mapps> well
<mapps> 30k people whee i am
<mapps> so probably no ubuntu chan
<mapps> ;p
<mapps> yay can play media off usb on my nexus7 now;D
<mapps> this lets be cops
<mapps> is quite funny
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
 * knightwise greets the carbon based units infecting the internet !
 * brobostigon puts on a borg voice, he is only parly carbon based.
<brobostigon> partly*
<knightwise> Half borg - half KFC ?
<brobostigon> lolz v.2.3.1
 * zmoylan-pi hands brobostigon a lozenge to help ease the borg voice
<brobostigon> lolz v.2.3.1.1
<brobostigon> thanks zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> so anyone super excited by new android promises?
<knightwise> I'll see when it gets actual devices downstream
<brobostigon> which ones?
<zmoylan-pi> ability to limit access to features in a device.  kinda like what symbian had a decade ago :-)
<brobostigon> i have a nexus4, so i am probably screwed except for when it goes to CM.
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: CM has had that for ages.
<zmoylan-pi> though it seems you can't limit apps access to the internet for some reason
 * brobostigon can, :)
 * zmoylan-pi hugs my dumbphone... :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i've turned off most notifications on my smartphone . its amazing how smoothing it is
<knightwise> soothing
<zmoylan-pi> i deleted pinterest app as it started using notification area to tell me to update the flippin app
<knightwise> God I hate the pinterest app.
<knightwise> it keeps on mailing you on and on and on !
<zmoylan-pi> i had it on android tablet still knocking around
<brobostigon> thats where my pebble is handy, silent phone, genetle vibe on activity.
<knightwise> brobostigon: same for me (has a moto360)
<knightwise> mostly use it to tell my phone to buzz at the end of a meeting
<brobostigon> cool :)
<brobostigon> ah.
<knightwise> for example : ok google , set a countdown timer for 60 minutes
<brobostigon> android wear does look interesting however compared to my pebble, its still inferior in many ways.
<brobostigon> sw and hw.
<knightwise> I disagree on that, I love the voicecontrol it offers
<zmoylan-pi> i'd hate to share an office with people using voice control...
<brobostigon> there are useful things like that, however at a disadvantage when it comes to screen readability, battery life.
<brobostigon> ease to program for.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i use it mostly on the road and in the car
<knightwise> never in the office
<zmoylan-pi> yes, but it's like speakerphones, we've all been in public spaces where someone insists on using one... just bad manners
<knightwise> I use the 'secret agent' approach :) I only talk to my phone, i do it discretely :)
<brobostigon> while holding your phone, stroking the screen in a deep sexy voice, "helllo phone, please call my wife."
<brobostigon> if james bond had a phone, thats what he would do.
<knightwise> Indeed he would
<knightwise> na .. just a "ok google : Text nyana 'im on my way , eta 20 00)
<knightwise> my wife has the gear 2 , if she is in a rush she answers her phone on her watch
<knightwise> she can make phonecalls on that watch
<knightwise> but she never does it in publix
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> I NEVER use speakerphone in public , that is just wrong
<brobostigon> yep, you dont want half the planet to hear and listen in on your conversation.
<knightwise> treu
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan_> m00
<diddledan_> morning
<knightwise> ok .. nearly cooked the I7 Cpu on my mac mini there
<knightwise> another nail in the coffin of running linux natively on unsupported hardware.
 * popey squints back at Myrtti 
<Myrtti> Facebook squint, that was
<popey> :)
<popey> I figured
 * Laney stares into the abyss
<Laney> jimmy wales is on desert island discs atm
<bashrc_> good moaning
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt
<knightwise> ok , ... my mac mini just went nearly chernobyl on my while running Elementary .. for some reason temp sensors and fans didn't kick in.
 * knightwise *harg*
<knightwise> thats it , im buying an xps13 with Ubuntu pre-installed
<popey> hah
<popey> I'm still pondering what to get :(
<intrbiz> knightwise: XPS13 is a nice machine
<Laney> knightwise: I ordered one of those on Wednesday
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> I heard that the shipped version of ubuntu has some bugs though, might need to upgrade if that's not fixed yet
<SuperMatt> I liked the look of the new HPs which are coming to ebuyer with Ubuntu installed, but they only have Radeon cards D:
<Laney> it was xps 13 or the x1 carbon for me
<popey> yeah, those are the two at the top of my list
<popey> but lack of touchpoint is a factor
<Laney> everyone loves that
<Laney> but I've never had it so nothing to miss for me :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Learn About Composting Day! ð
<popey> adding this to wishlist http://www.amazon.co.uk/FURminator-Long-Hair-DeShedding-Large/dp/B004WJ0L3Q
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Those type work quite well. As do the rubber mitts...I can look up what I bought if you like.
<popey> thanks
<TwistedLucidity> Ok, about to go on a call; will do after
<popey> i just have a plastic brush, which the cats aren't particularly interested in
<JamesTait> popey, they are excellent.
<JamesTait> popey, we have a furminator for our cats, and it really helps.
<popey> excellent
<JamesTait> Plus it's sturdy enough to withstand being attacked if you catch them when they don't feel like it. ð
 * davmor2 feed JamesTait to the worms to see how well he composts :D
<davmor2> popey: did you not instantly race out and buy one of those jml brushy scratch pads with catnip?
<knightwise> Laney, which one did you order ? The HD version or the QHD ?
<Laney> Q BABY
<knightwise> Laney: Cool .. you sure ubunu won't have no scaling issues ?
<Laney> find out when I get it :-)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: We have a dog with the pretentions of a double coat (typical mutt). This works quite well: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001GJSEI4
<JamesTait> davmor2, I had to put my foot down on that one - both boys wanted to get a couple.
<popey> Laney: is that the touch screen one?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: This also wroks well: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003UUC9UQ
<Laney> sure is
<popey> interesting
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think you are missing the point of them, it's for cleaning cats not feet
<popey> this could be worth doing and just not use an external display at all
<Laney> knightwise: 1880 at Ã2 scaling is going to be okay
<TwistedLucidity> popey: This wasn't great on the mutt, but might trick a cat into thinking grooming is strokey time: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001BFDU32
<popey> (I use an external display on my x220 because 1366x768 is too low)
<Laney> I know the browsers were hidpi holdouts but not sure where they stand atm
<popey> but with a larger res display on new laptop I'd be tempted to get rid of my external screen and just use the laptop like a laptop
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Useless: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosewood-Protection-Salon-Grooming-Slicker/dp/B003GPD51W
<popey> heh
<TwistedLucidity> popey: We have a brush like this (kinda like a Furinator-combo) it works great: http://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALL-DOGS-Functionality-Brilliantly-Accessories/dp/B00LEE3BTI
<TwistedLucidity> Has the fine tooth side for getting out dead hair, and then a broad tooth for detangling/agitating the undercoat (which makes grooming easier)
<TwistedLucidity> And there ends "Ubuntu Pet Corner" :-)
<knightwise> Laney: i'm thinking of going for the Hd version. I love to work outside with it (its my mobile companion). Did you order the developer edition or just the windows version ?
<Laney> knightwise: I got the one with 14.04 ...
<Laney> what do you mean by the other one being better to work outside with?
<Laney> because it'll have better battery life?
<knightwise> Laney: better batt life AND a matt screen (non touch)
<Laney> ah
<Laney> I'm okay with gloss outside if the screen is bright enough
<Laney> but I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I've used this one outside in the 5 years I've had it :)
<knightwise> I will miss scrolling with touch .. I love that on my surface pro
<knightwise> I was on the verge of ordering a surface pro 3 yesterday and just running ubuntu in a fullscreen vm ... (and run ubuntu natively on my mac mini) but .. at the end I think i'm better of just running ubuntu on supported hardware.
<bashrc_> yes. Trying to run it in a vm on a legacy OS might not be a very good user experience
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: So long as goodness like GPU passthrough is available; why would the VM give two stuffs about the host OS?
<TwistedLucidity> Unless the host OS is Windows 95....
<ne2k> I have bought an HP ProBook 455 G2 with Ubuntu pre-installed. It claimed it was going to come with 14.04, but it actually came with 12.04, which was a bit annoying. I have reinstalled with 14.04.2 desktop and I now need to find the extra drivers for trusty.
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Go to 15.04. If you're going to take pain, may as well go for broke.
<ne2k> before I blatted 12.04, I noticed that it had some repositories from HP (precise-stella-wanhua and precise-oem-sp1 and precise-oem-sp2). I'm trying to work out what the equivalent repositories are for trusty
<TwistedLucidity> I'm finding 15.04 really nice, bar a few KDE glitches.
<ne2k> I can't seem to find ANY documentation on where these names come from, what stella means, what wanhua means, anything
<ne2k> is this a question for canonical, or for HP? the archives are hosted on hp.archive.ubuntu.com
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Meh, I have a few repros that are still labelled "precise". Not had any issues
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: More a question for HP to be honest, it's their repo. If you can find the packages those repos provide, you can have a scout around.
<TwistedLucidity> Also, the repos can be hit via a browser; see if "trusty" is is listed when you do.
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I've done that. there are trusty-stella-* ones, but I don't even know what "stella" is. I'm looking for documentation on what this means
<ne2k> and finding it... missing
<TwistedLucidity> Looks like a Toshiba thing from an initial search
<ne2k> interesting
<ne2k> tbh, I just need a working rtl8723be wifi driver and the optimal fglrx
<TwistedLucidity> stella-wanhua appears to be screen controls. Canoncial is listed as the maintainer
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, where are you finding this?
<TwistedLucidity> "Description: A Brightness Workaround"
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: I'm just browsing the repo
<ne2k> http://toshiba-buffalo.archive.canonical.com/dists/precise-stella-wanhua/public/binary-amd64/Packages
<TwistedLucidity> Bingo :)
<ne2k> so that's not particularly important
<ne2k> so you think I could install the fglrx and rtlwifi packages from precise-oem-sp1 and it would be ok?
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: http://askubuntu.com/questions/457341/wifi-drops-and-wont-reconnect-until-reboot-14-04-with-rtl8723be#458518
<TwistedLucidity> That appears to be a complete solution for WiFi
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, fwlps=0
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, the commenter seems to have needed that.
<TwistedLucidity> I can see "trusty-oem-sp" and "trusty-oem-sp1" exist; but without know exactly what packages are provided I couldn't really tell you if they are the Trust versions of the Precise ones you have
<TwistedLucidity> I am sure someone with much more knowledge than me could help you more.
<ne2k> there's nothing for rtlwifi in the trusty-oem* repos, though
<ne2k> I think I need this http://hp.archive.canonical.com/pool/public/o/oem-wireless-rtlwifi-1367658-dkms/
<knightwise> Laney: I just got the quote on the I5
<knightwise> 1196, vat included
<Laney> knightwise: quote?
<Laney> I just got it from dell's website
<knightwise> price-offer
<Laney> is that EUR?
<knightwise> yep
<Laney> nod
<eux> symfony
<davmor2> friday fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
<popey> Laney: typically i you phone dell up they negotiate if they think you won't buy
<TwistedLucidity> non-Linux: Are small, clip-on LEDs a thing? Trying to find some for backpacks etc and failing.
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I have contacted HP and they tell me that they don't support Ubuntu. despite the fact that they sell a computer with Ubuntu installed
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: How...odd.
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, well, the maintainer on those packages does say "canonical engineering" etc.
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: So what? The contract is between you and HP.
<ne2k> what contract?
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I bought the laptop from eBuyer, an online retailer
<ne2k> but they are boxshifters, so I don't expect them to know technical answers. they told me to contact HP
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Oh, in which case the contract is between you an eBuyer.
<TwistedLucidity> Not that that helps you
<ne2k> yes, and they have offered me a refund as the goods were not as sold. which is about as much as I would expect from them
<TwistedLucidity> Did that askubuntu things not help with the WiFi issue? Seemed like a full solution when I looked.
<TwistedLucidity> You may also find that 15.04 fixes issues too due to the newer kernel etc
<popey> ne2k: got a link to the device you bought? I'll raise it with the people who made the build.
<popey> TwistedLucidity: you can run the 15.04 kernel on 14.04
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Aye, but it's so much easier to do "apt-get do-release-upgrade" IMHO.
<ne2k> popey, ooh, thanks. it's this: http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/public/psi/home/?sp4ts.oid=6943834
<popey> not if you want long term support it's not
<ne2k> release upgrade has only ever caused MAJOR, MAJOR problems for me, so I never do it
<ne2k> I want the LTS release
<popey> ne2k: got the ebuyer link?
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: It does cause me some issues, but then I have more PPAs installed that is strictly healthy....
<ne2k> popey, http://www.ebuyer.com/705955-hp-455-quad-core-laptop-l8b56es
<popey> thanks
<ne2k> popey, are HP right that they didn't make the ubuntu build, that Ubuntu made it for them?
<popey> ne2k: and this thing ships with 12.04?
<ne2k> popey, well, the one I received yesterday did!
<popey> ok
<popey> thanks
<ne2k> and the certification page http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201404-14968/ only lists 12.04.4
<ne2k> popey, what's your connection to this process? I don't understand how the whole thing works
<popey> Well the PPAs are run by our engineering services department
<popey> they will have done some work to enable the hardware
<ne2k> HP are denying all knowledge, saying they have no responsibility to support HP on the computer, but the computer came with an HP build of Ubuntu. so they are right?
<popey> which maybe why it ships with those PPAs enabled
<ne2k> popey, yes, indeed, but I thought HP had done that work. it was actually Canonical, then?
<popey> right, I'm mailing internally to raise this and find out if there's a better number you can call
<popey> we do that work
<popey> usually :)
<popey> it varies, sometimes we do most/all of it, sometimes it's in collaboration with people on their side
<popey> but let me get clarification from someone internal for you.
<ne2k> popey, so you work for canonical
<popey> yes
<ne2k> popey, can I PM you my e-mail address so you can keep me posted?
<popey> sure
<ne2k> or e-mail you?
<MartijnVdS> I wish the Raspberry Pi/VC4 DRI driver was more finished :(
<popey> sure, alan.pope@canonical.com
 * TwistedLucidity imagines popey walking down the office with the "baseball bat of blame" :-)
<popey> tricky when I work from home
<ne2k> popey, cheers. what's your "title"?
<popey> but yeah, i like that image
<popey> community manager
<ne2k> I have just apologized to the poor HP chat support operative for lambasting them
<ne2k> lol
<popey> haha
<popey> how did you contact them? phone or website chat?
<ne2k> web chat
<popey> ok, ta
<popey> ne2k: what's the output of "lsb_release -a" ?
<ne2k> popey, I don't haev the machine in front of me atm
<popey> ok
<popey> no worries
<popey> nice looking machine for the money though
<popey> odd that it came with 12.04
<ne2k> popey, especially with the Â£50 cashback
<popey> nice
 * popey considers lunch
 * jpds too.
<davmor2> popey: take a close look at the ebuyer descriptions, they list a 12 compute core then later it is 10, 14.04 and it's 12.04 the list kinda goes on like that :)
<ne2k> davmor2, not that I can see
<ne2k> popey, just e-mailed you, got it?
<popey> yes
<ne2k> popey, cheers. any vague idea of when I might expect an answer? not trying to rush you at all, I'd just like to know if possible
<popey> dunno. will let you know as soon as I know
<ne2k> popey, ok, cheers
<Odd_Bloke> I had my eye on one of those laptops for my wife.
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, I've got a second 8GB stick arriving too, for a total of 16GB
<Odd_Bloke> ne2k: How does it seem build-quality-wise?
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, pretty decent. it's quite thin. the keyboard has a very nice action
<ne2k> it's kinda like a plastic copy of a macbook, if you like. the screen resolution seems very low for the size
<popey> ne2k: really sorry you've had the experience.
<ne2k> popey, well, it's hardly your fault, is it?!
<Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah, that's something I noticed when considering it.
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no firewire, but then, what has?
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no expresscard, but then, what has?
<ne2k> ;-)
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no comment on the battery life yet as I only received it yesterday
<Odd_Bloke> I'm sure I could live with the absence. :p
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, the battery does seem strangely small, though. the seemingly sell larger ones that stick out a bit if you want
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, the battery does sound smallish.
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, it's your basic "business" laptop
<Odd_Bloke> But my wife would have it plugged in most of the time anyway.
<Odd_Bloke> So I'll let you and popey iron out the creases, then I'll get one. ;)
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: As was discussed yesterday, *everything* is Canonical's fault! :-P
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, haha
<ne2k> I have to say that I am already quite impressed that someone from Canonical was actually here and actually offered to sort this out
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: fun we all blame you, so does that mean everything is your fault?
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It usually is, but I stopped caring years ago!
<davmor2> haha
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, I'll whack the solution on my blog https://atatdotdot.wordpress.com/ once I have it
<ne2k> popey, Shengyao Xue <shengyao.xue@canonical.com> seems to do a lot of the stuff on this build
<ne2k> popey, is there any documentation anywhere on how this whole system fits together? like, what is hp.archive.canonical.com? what is stella? what is stella-wanhua? what is wataugafour? if you search for these names, nothing comes up apart from the package repositories. there's no explanation
<Odd_Bloke> ne2k: That is an amazing blog.
<ne2k> Odd_Bloke, isn't it just?! ;-0)
<popey> ne2k: basically any names you don't recognise are probably product code names
<popey> used because we get hardware before its released
<popey> so we don't reveal stuff that's under NDA
<ne2k> popey, fair enough. can the installer image for 12.04 that was on the laptop be reacquired from somewhere?
<ne2k> HP deny all knowledge of its existence
<popey> I don't know. I'll ask
<ne2k> despite having clearly been responsible for writing it to the disk before shipping it
<popey> ooh, had a reply
<popey> ne2k: are you happy for me to pass on your email address internally?
<ne2k> sure
<popey> ok
<Laney> I bet it's an information not getting to the front line situation inside HP
<popey> ya
<davmor2> Laney: ah they don't need to know
<popey> ne2k: ok, passed on your email and irc nickname. hope they can help.
<davmor2> Laney: it's not like they deal with the customers.......wait a minute
<TwistedLucidity> Probably because first-line will tend to follow a "Have you tried turning it off and on?" script. Second (or maybe third) line would have the chops and info to deal.
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, no, they sent me the link to the fglrx-*.tar installer. which I don't want, I want the proper repositories so it gets updated automagically.
<TwistedLucidity> And this reminds me, I need to email Verbatim for some info (only way to get at the third line folks)
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Oh right, there was at least /some/ info. More than I understood for before.
<ne2k> anyone on surespot? I've created an account but have no friends. lol
<TwistedLucidity> Never heard of it
<davmor2> ditto
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, like Telegram
<davmor2> ne2k: ah you need to join telegram then, that where all the cool kids are :)
<TwistedLucidity> SureSpot does multiple ids which I don't think Telegram does
<TwistedLucidity> Neat
<bashrc> doesn't telegram rely on proprietary servers, or is it like xmpp?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: their servers
<ne2k> bashrc_, same with surespot, but the end-to-end comms are cryptographically secure
<ne2k> supposedly
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-30
<MAPcz> YO
<MAPcz> back in gib
<mapGIB> :)
<zmoylan-pi> what dragged you over to cz?
<mapGIB> ah
<mapGIB> was in cz last time i used this laptop
<mapGIB> back in gib now
<zmoylan-pi> work or holiday made you go there?
<mapGIB> cz?
<mapGIB> holiday
<mapGIB> back in uk on 20th june for a wedding;( man uk is depressing
<mapGIB> be glad once ive moved all my stuff and sold up
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ne2k_> popey, you about today?
<popey_> No :)
<popey_> Wassup?
<ne2k> haha
<ne2k> got fglrx installed, working well, but still having very little joy with rtl8723be
<popey_> :(
<ne2k> on HP probook 455 G2
<ne2k> I've built the rtlwifi_new from git and installed that
<ne2k> tried setting module parameters msi=Y ips=N fwlps=N, various things
<ne2k> msi=Y allowed network scanning to work, but it still couldnt' connect wtih network manager
<popey_> Did you get a mail from our guys?
<ne2k> however, if I connect using /etc/network/interfaces, it works fine
<ne2k> popey_ only an initial one asking for lspci -vv, lsusb -v and uname -a, which I sent them
<popey_> Ok
<ne2k> I couldnt' send it until fri evening becasue the machine is at home and i was at work when were talking on fri
<popey_> Guess you won't get much more till monday
<ne2k> no, that's fine
<ne2k> thought I'd piss around myself in the meantime ;-)
<popey_> Thanks
<ne2k> foolishly stayed up till midnight last night messing around with it and now I'm knackered lol
<popey_> Hah
<ne2k> right, I'm off
<ne2k> ta
<bujji> popey:helllo how can i upgrade ubuntu versioin form 12.X to 14.X
<bujji> hey any one
<moreati> bujji: which version are you trying to upgrade from? 12.04 or 12.10?
<bujji> 12.04
<moreati> and is it 14.04 that you want to upgrade to?
<moreati> aka the Long Term Support release
<popey> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<bujji> morweati:yes
<moreati> bujji: as linked by popey, follow these instructions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_12.04_LTS_or_Ubuntu_13.10
<bujji> moreati:okey,thaank you...after i will let you on this.
<bujji> you know*
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<elfy> hi bigcalm
<ali1234> anyone know how to make android studio (which is intellij) operate at a reasonable speed?
<ali1234> will it be faster if i use oracle java insteadof openjdk?
<zmoylan-pi> if you can manage that google has job for you :-)
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> that's what i thought
<ali1234> i already encountered three bugs just during the installation
<zmoylan-pi> i've never seen android development and vm instances any way other than appallingly slow
<ali1234> this reminds me of visual basic 5
<zmoylan-pi> vb5 would load and crash in minutes i tells ya!! :-D
<ali1234> pretty much what android studio does
<ali1234> maybe i can turn off all the code completion?
<zmoylan-pi> nah takes ages for the crashes to happen due to the sluggishnes of the system
<ali1234> it has taken me two days just to get it to compile the default "new project" code
<ali1234> and then the first time i edited the code the whole IDE immediately disappeared
<zmoylan-pi> i think i got it in one day. but it was a long long summer day starting early :-)
<ali1234> hmm i just had a idea
<ali1234> i could use Qt instead
<MartijnVdS> xlib,.
<ali1234> i wont have to deal with any of this
<ali1234> how fast is "Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N455   @ 1.66GHz" (dual core) compared to modern ARM chips for desktop use eg running Android Studio?
<daftykins> ugh atom
<popey> those are netbook CPUs and often limited in how much ram they can have
<daftykins> yarr rarely you could get 2GB on 'em
<ali1234> yeah i have 1GB
<ali1234> i'm quite far into swap that probably isn't helping
<ali1234> actually... i only have 12MB of swap free
<daftykins> :S
<popey> heh
<popey> intellij seems to work okay here, but this is i7 with 16GB RAM
<popey> which probably helps
<zmoylan-pi> just a smidge... :-P
<shauno> I hope it helps, else I've wasted a lot of money
<bigcalm> Anybody here had experience with USB NICs?
<ali1234> sure, i just plug them in and they work :)
<popey> bigcalm: yes, i have a couple
<popey> yeah, some better than others
<popey> the apple one I have is the better of them all.
<bigcalm> There are LOTS on amazon. I wondered what should be avoided
<ali1234> wireless or wired?
<bigcalm> wired
<popey> avoid the cheapest one
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> They will be used on my proliant microserver, so USB 2.0 only sadly
<bigcalm> That said, I'm sure that 3.0 will work. I'm not expecting more than 10/100 to work
<popey> you could buy a pci car with faster ethernet ports
<popey> *card
<ali1234> wait why do you need a usb ethernet for a server?
<ali1234> doesn't it already have ethernet?
<shauno> it's difficult to know which ones to avoid without opening them :/  the only thing that makes the apple ones good is shielding
<ali1234> and yeah just get a pci card
<bigcalm> I could by a double card, I'm looking at USB so that I can throw them at multiple devices that don't have pci
<zmoylan-pi> then wireless would be more useful perhaps?
<daftykins> USB =|
<ali1234> USB equals pipe?
<zmoylan-pi> pfft, i used to have a parallel coax network dohickey from dlink back in the days of novell. :-)
 * bigcalm buys http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-EXPI9402PTGL20-Pro-1000-Dual-Port-Gigabit-PCI-E-Low-Profile-Network-Card/111677371876?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D6d307a65a97c4ce1a96683cd6e2b4895%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D121658376022
<elfy> holy batman link
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: don't want wifi as I'm playing around with wired networking. I've just bought this to play around with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3COM-3CR17561-91-SUPERSTACK-3-SWITCH-4500-26-PORT-2x-SFP-/171026058111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d1f28b7f
<bigcalm> Humf
<daftykins> o0
<bigcalm> Turns out that minecraft (via ATLauncher) doesn't like it when I use the intel graphics of this laptop.
<bigcalm> Time to swith over to the fan heavy nvidia graphisc
 * bigcalm logs back in for instant fan fun
<daftykins> sounds like you could do with a disassemble and thermal paste upgrade :>
<bigcalm> Laptop
<zmoylan-pi> or move to a colder location
<daftykins> being a laptop doesn't invalidate my statement
<daftykins> makes it even more just :)
 * SuperEngineer wonders about daftykins's sanity thinking he is a laptop
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it has improved greatly since leaving #ubuntu
<SuperEngineer> :)
<knightwise> hmm.. I have never understood why hibernate/suspÃªnd to disk was disabled in Ubuntu.
<knightwise> Trying to find out if its hard to enable / re-enable on the DellXps13
<popey> knightwise: its disabled for a reason :)
<directhex> some horrible security issue iirc
<ali1234_> right, got a better computer. quad i5 and 6GB
<ali1234_> i love how you can just swap the hard drives and carry on
<directhex> i think it's a secure boot issue?
<knightwise> popey:  does it have to do with secure boot or something ? I"m looking at getting the dell xps13 and I would love to have the luxury over open-close lid
<knightwise> of "open close lid" ... just like i have with the mac
<daftykins> haha, the mac where you have to go CLI / install third party software to STOP it sleeping on lid close
<daftykins> amusing machines, them
 * bigcalm tries to swim in lava and then rage quits
<knightwise> daftykins: not always. I can keep my mac "awake" when the lid is closed as long as I have an external keyboard/mouse connected.
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> that must be a fun balancing act
<daftykins> do you juggle too? :)
<knightwise> I don"t have a real problem with doing that. At least they hibernate/resume.
<knightwise> when you are in a meeting or need to pack up an go in a rush its very convenient to have that functionality
<daftykins> i have been using xubuntu a bit on this old Sony laptop i have, but oh dear they fail to put in some of the standard things you epect from a DE
<daftykins> watching a video fullscreen... the screen dims and will lock eventually
<daftykins> well, go blank and stop the video
<knightwise> ouch
<daftykins> i see your point yeah, never had the need myself
<zmoylan-pi> yeah took me a while to kill all the screensavers and power saving dohickeys
<knightwise> Yeah , the point is, even since I became self employed I need my stuff to "just work". Whenever I loose an hour or two on tinkering with stuff ... Those could have been billable hours
<knightwise> + doing presentations with a client while suffering from a wonky laptop .. not good at all.
<knightwise> So i use the mac mostly when I need to do presentations, videoproductions and Audio recording.
<shauno> iirc 'clamshell mode' is a documented, by-design behaviour.  it'll run closed if you're treating it as a desktop (power, display & keyboard)
<knightwise> but for the rest I would like to have a lean small system running Linux.
<knightwise> Thus : The xps13.
<daftykins> knightwise: how come you want Linux then? ;)
<knightwise> I need to keep my "cross platform" skills up (Mac laptop , Windows 8.1 Pro tablet, Android Tablet, Ubuntu Phone and .. a ubuntu laptop)
<knightwise> (or a "linux" laptop)
<zmoylan-pi> get a chromebook for a linux laptop :-)
<knightwise> When I started up my company I did it on linux (Lenovo twist13) for the first 3 months. Worked like a charm.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: got one, did chrouton on it. Not bad actually but it misses some of the functionalities (like tunneling home over SSH)
<daftykins> nah you'd need to put something proper on, not those nasty chroot hacks
<daftykins> although my vote would never be chromebook :>
<knightwise> daftykins: so you are saying : Full ubuntu install ?
<knightwise> perhaps not such a bad idea to give that a try.
<daftykins> yep if whichever model you have has enough storage and supports it
<daftykins> often those things need too much modding to work right
<knightwise> https://www.distroshare.com/distros/get/12/
<daftykins> i certainly always ignored anyone in #ubuntu trying to get one working
<knightwise> there are pre cut and dry distro"s tweaked to get it working.
<daftykins> yeah that was what someone the other day was running who i ignored
<knightwise> nice ! ... as a hobby project.
<ali1234_> this intellij IDE is actually pretty good
<ali1234_> it tells you if you import things and then don't use them
<ali1234_> and it also highlights redundant code
<zmoylan-pi> doing some elementary code in bash and perl i use nano to start with and as the files grow larger geaney.  nice lite ide that doesn't irk me.
<ali1234_> is there a maintained ubuntu touch image for nexus 7 2012?
<ali1234_> because anything is easier than trying to write code for android
<ali1234_> also does ubuntu touch have gstreamer?
<ali1234_> i would assume it does
<popey> yes
<popey> (to gstreamer)
<popey> no to nexus 7 2012
<popey> there's an old image but nothing recent, we dropped it a while back
<popey> I'm looking for a cheap Intel based tablet I can install Ubuntu on. Thinking maybe one of those Dell Venue things might be an option
<penguin42> popey: I know there are fedora hacks for some of them; search for fedlet - some of them have 32bit EFI that can make it a little tricky
<popey> neat
<penguin42> popey: I don't know if anyone has done the Tesco Hudl 2 yet?
<popey> no, dont think so
<popey> the android devices are mostly not easily done, the windowws ones are
<penguin42> http://www.modaco.com/topic/374262-found-hudl2-compatible-flash-tool-via-fastboot/page-3   yeh not looking promising
<MartijnVdS> I now have android M on my old phone (N5)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: how is it?
<MartijnVdS> not that different from 5.1
<MartijnVdS> Major stuff has been summed up at ars (with screenshots)
<Azelphur> I see
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: What kernel version is in it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: let me check
<MartijnVdS> boot is super-fast
<MartijnVdS> non-first boot
<MartijnVdS> 3.4.0-gb87733d
<daftykins> probably isn't a full boot?
<daftykins> ancient :<
<MartijnVdS> yeah that does look stone-age
<daftykins> gotta wonder about the thinking with that
<MartijnVdS> 3 years
<MartijnVdS> Maybe the patches are too hard to port to newer kernels?
<MartijnVdS> Or some vendor has some closed-source driver blob that won't work on newer kernels?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh that's why I ask, I've been trying to merge up an android kernel to something newer and it's really hard
<intrbiz> most arm boards seem to have older kernels, odroid is 3.10
<MartijnVdS> Pi is slowly getting to 3.19
<penguin42> intrbiz: Yeh a lot derive from either the chip vendor or the android aosp (?) set that come out in chunks; although the reality is they tend to have chunks of them back ported random bits from newer kernels
<MartijnVdS> because why work WITH the kernel devs, right
<MartijnVdS> if you can work AGAINST them
<intrbiz> penguin42: yeh, I think the samsung chips are a modified 3.10 kernel
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: One of the problems they have is that they change the chips so frequently they cant keep up - especially when they haven't sent the previous set up
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. *finally* a proper DRI/DRM/KMS module set for VC4 is emerging
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: indeed, wish more people would mainline than out of tree bodge
<MartijnVdS> intrbiz: especially for Raspberry Pi and similar "we're oh so open source friendly" projects
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: yes, broadcom reknowned for being a pillar in the open source world
<MartijnVdS> intrbiz: Qualcomm/Atheros on the other hand.. have you seen their patch volumes?
<MartijnVdS> especially on ath9/10k
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: no, but at least they have a history of OS drivers and also free firmware for some chips
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: it's the restricted firmware which narks me the most, absolutely no need for it
<MartijnVdS> intrbiz: yeah, and one of their devs is (I think) one of the openwrt top devs
<intrbiz> right
<intrbiz> i just find it amusing that the PI uses a CPU from a vendor with such a terrible reputation in the OS world
<zmoylan-pi> didn't someone just buy broadcom?
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: didn't someone just buy qualcomm?
<MartijnVdS> ah no
<MartijnVdS> . In May 2015 chip maker Avago Technologies Ltd. agreed to buy rival Broadcom Corp. for $37 billion in cash and stock.[4]
<intrbiz> interesting
<intrbiz> looks like avago also own LSI
<penguin42> yeh Avago bought up a lot of interesting companies
<MartijnVdS> Avago - The company was founded in 1961 as a semiconductor products division of HP.
<MartijnVdS> The division separated from Hewlett-Packard as part of Agilent Technologies in 1999.
<zmoylan-pi> rats... sinking ship... :-P
<MartijnVdS> well.. they're a multi-billion dollar company
<MartijnVdS> and as every speck of dust has an ARM chip these days...
<penguin42> Agilent were the really good trusted bit of HP
<penguin42> test equipment, fibre optic devices, that type of stuff
<MartijnVdS> yeah their scopes are legendary
<penguin42> yeh, the first one I saw which had ps/division
<ali1234_> come and avago if you think you're hard enough?
<intrbiz> anyone played with powerdns at all?
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> The Russians have banned entry for Nick Clegg
<intrbiz> ?
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32949236
<penguin42> seems an odd choice
<intrbiz> penguin42: I doubt Cleggy will loose sleep over it, I suspect he has other things on his mind
<penguin42> intrbiz: Indeed, although I'm not actually sure what is on his mind any more
<intrbiz> penguin42: how many decades it will take to undo the last 5 years
<penguin42> does he care about that?
<intrbiz> at some level I suspect so
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-31
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.independent.ie/world-news/woman-dumps-computer-worth-130000-31267227.html original apple mac left at recycling centre
<zmoylan-pi> not mac.  apple i doh!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> you're * minutes late brobostigon ;)
<SuperEngineer> *
<SuperEngineer> =8
<brobostigon> oh dear, :(
 * SuperEngineer forgives
<brobostigon> yippeee
<SuperEngineer> bvcxzxcvb
<SuperEngineer> uytredswawdefrgtyjuiolp
<brobostigon> did you cat walk over the keyboard?
<zmoylan-pi> only if it was moonwalking
<SuperEngineer> whoops - damn brain realised the willpower hadn't yet woken up - it made me do darn hoovering!
<SuperEngineer> [darn keyboard got in the way!]#
<SuperEngineer> ...feelfree to substitute "darn" for what you know I wanted to say ;)
<penguin42> willlpower? Where? When?
<SuperEngineer> hmm
 * SuperEngineer awaits email from security forces asking for the key to unlock my encrypted message
<SuperEngineer> [to which I shall reply: "hoover"]
<zmoylan-pi> it's the ability to lock you up without trial for indefinite period that should shake the passwords loose
<SuperEngineer> ok! I'll confess - the encrytion key is actually "vacuum cleaner" - that's strong enough to fox them till my prison bars rust!
<zmoylan-pi> stainless steel
<SuperEngineer> oh poo! hadn't thought about that.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure it's come in both uk and ireland what with the climate and all
<zmoylan-pi> *come up
<ne2k> I'm trying desperatly to get the rtl8723be wifi/bluetooth adapter to work on Wifi on trusty 14.04.2. following all the guides about using rtlwifi_new from git and loading with msi=y fwlps=n ips=n, different combinations of the above, etc.
<ne2k> I can now connect to wifi if I put the parameters into /etc/network/interfaces, but I cannot get ti to connect with NetworkManager
<ne2k> deauthenticating from xx by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING) appears in syslog
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> hi moodoo
<MooDoo> nice sunday evening :)
<popey> yo
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-30
 * zmoylan-1i listens to bird tweeting outside...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> it's that time again!
<ball> Is the sky lightning up in the East?
<zmoylan-1i> nope, probably a street light has the bugger confused
<mappps> morning
<ball> Mornin'
<mappps> timeto watch the new ep of silico valley
<mappps> hooray
<ball> I've never seen it.
<daftykins> nor me
<mappps> itspretty funny imo
<mappps> geeky and a bit ott at times
<daftykins> exciting times ahead! Computex and E3 :D
<mappps> ;]
<ball> Where is Computex held?
<mappps> hhmmmm got a ringing in my ears as if theres a nise coming from somewhere
<mappps> only happens in my room
<ball> mappps: Any CRT monitors or televisions around?
<mappps> nah just laptop
<daftykins> Taiwan i believe
<mappps> crt monitors/tv can do it?
<mappps> like i open window cant hear anything that would be making this noise
<ball> mappps: Yes, the coils in the line output transformer sometimes ring.
<mappps> go to lounge..it s fine
<mappps> god this is annoying
<ball> mappps: Does it go away if you shutdown the laptop and/or unplug the charger?
<mappps> nope
<mappps> what the hell is it
<ball> Unplug everything electronic.
<mappps> gonna watch silicon valley with voliume louder than normal..drown it out hahah
<ball> Does it go away if you unplug your LCD TV?
<mappps> no tv in here
<ball> Does it go away if you unplug everything in your room?
<mappps> sec
<mappps> nope
<mappps> gonna jst suck it up..deal with it later..tv time silicon valley
<ball> What about neigbouring rooms?
<mappps> back soon all:D
<mappps> cod it be aboe or below
<mappps> im 9th floor
<ball> Possibly, depending on the floor. Could also be something battery powered, though that seems less likely.
<mappps> hmm marble flooring dunno how thick floors are
<mappps> its annoying as though
<ball> Any pressurised containers?
<mappps> nop
<ball> Does the laptop have a spinning disk or an SSD?
<mappps> nevermind man gonna leae it for now
<mappps> disk
<ball> Could be bearings in the disk or fan.
<ball> Which reminds me, I need to order another 12cm fan.
<popey> Morning
<Switches> Morning popey
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<Switches> heya knightwise
<knightwise> how are you guys doin
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Switches> Hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi Switches
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<Switches> Hmm there is no sysvinit-core in ubuntu then :(, guess I'll have to do a wipe and put debian on here. meh
<popey> that's a touch extreme
<Switches> Well that's what I thought, but can't seem to find sysvinit anywhere in ubuntu, Upstart is there, but from what I know thats no longer being maintained?
<popey> we moved to systemd
<popey> (like debian)
<Switches> Yeah, but debian has a preseed command that can install with sysvinit rather than systemd
<popey> i doubt we will support that in ubuntu
<Switches> Yeah, shame really, I liked upstart a lot more than systemd (which seems to get more like a virus on Windows every day lol)
<Switches> popey doesn't the phone still use upstart? or is that switching aswell?
<popey> it uses both systemd and upstart
<popey> upstart for the user session currently
<popey> it will switch when we go to systemd
<Switches> ahh right
<SuperEngineer> Can y'all stop typing systemd when I'm watching The Simpsons please.  I keep reading it as systemdoh!
<SuperEngineer> [systemd is now known as systemnotdoh]  ;-)
 * penguin42 does the meta-sunday yawn
<zmoylan-pi> hmm no james for fact of the day on a weekday... fires up dos app... 'joan of arc burnt at the stake (1431)'
<SuperEngineer> what was wrong with stakes 1 to 1430?
<zmoylan-pi> failed quality control
<SuperEngineer> :)
<zmoylan-pi> or the vampire infestation created a bit of demand...
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * SuperEngineer fires up "Chill Zone" playlist and slides into bath too much info?]  bfn :-)
 * daftykins joins penguin42 in the great yawnening
<diddledan> Yey for bonk holidays
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i'm genuinely surprised about something with my new desktop build, somehow it's able to boot EFI with secure boot on, despite my graphics card not having a UEFI GOP in its' BIOS
 * penguin42 gently reflects on the last week or so he's had off and the things he hadn't got around to
<diddledan> How?
<daftykins> apparently lacking one of those prevents fast boot / secure boot, yet it somehow gets by and boots (just not as quick as it could)
<diddledan> penguin42: procrastination ftw
<daftykins> http://www.digimap.gg/marine/ais/ <-- this shows all the boats/ships out in the Channel, live data
<daftykins> very funky
<diddledan> daftykins: not many boats then!
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> 102 cruise ships are visiting the island this year o0
<diddledan> Busiest shipping lanes my arse
<diddledan> Oops. Family friendly. Forgot which channel I was in
<daftykins> yon DerriÃ©r
<diddledan> Lol
<daftykins> +/- e
<SuperEngineer> those ferries from Kent to France seem a bit "drunk"
<MartijnVdS> I saw a Guernseyan car in France last week
<MartijnVdS> (Guernseyish?)
<MartijnVdS> you don't see those a lot
<daftykins> o rry, what made you ID it? our plates don't have country labels typically
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the fact that it had "GBG" on it :)
<daftykins> ^_^ not many'd know that one i'd wager
<MartijnVdS> I've seen them before too.. when I took a boat from St Malo
<MartijnVdS> but that was 2 years ago I think
<daftykins> yeah that's our main port down to the continent
<daftykins> only been to France once myself... that was to drive straight through to Spain, too :D
<MartijnVdS> :)
<daftykins> this one is new - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4coy4brk01uolkb/IMG_20160530_164439.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> i must take a pic of the 1916 tour truck.  a nice military themed open sided truck driving around dublin.  in all weathers...
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> in summer it would be smelly in traffic, in winter it would be an exercise in endurance :-)
<daftykins> weird, my uncle just visited Gibraltar and couldn't receive any email from his google apps setup whilst there
<daftykins> i blame mappps
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i blame systemd
<penguin42> daftykins: That one sounds like a fun one to try and debug
<daftykins> the best part is i turned on 2 factor auth so if i tried to log into the web control panel it'd send him a text with a code, so i wouldn't be able to log in unless he forwarded it to me
<penguin42> could he get to his google account via a web browser?
<zmoylan-pi> while abroad did he get his sms?
<daftykins> as a true consumer problem, very little detail has been shared
<daftykins> and what there is doesn't make any sense...
<zmoylan-pi> when things work with google they're great and when they don't... it's fun and games
<daftykins> i've not had any problems that weren't pinkware to be honest
<daftykins> hosted exchange too, <client> i'm not getting emails from this one guy
<daftykins> <me> you appear to have added him to your blocked list :|
<zmoylan-pi> <them> our email is not working <me> looks like you're trying to pull down 120mb of email with 56k modem <them> so?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> latest one works from home and has a bit of a sketchy broadband connection, tells me she can tell when her son is playing on his Playstation... hah
<daftykins> there's me with my 40/5 VDSL and then these families of 4 sharing the 20/1... :)
<diddledan> evenink
<diddledan> daftykins: even 80Mbit is too slow :-p
<daftykins> it's the idea of sharing it that gets me *shudder*
<daftykins> "oh we've got the house on the market so there's no point taking a look at it"
<daftykins> mmk
<diddledan> my neighbour seems to be banging something
<daftykins> perhaps you should check if it's something worthy of bring all the diddledan's to the yard?
<daftykins> *bringing
<diddledan> nah, only milkshake is good enough for thtat
<daftykins> right that's it, put me down now - way too many mistakes are being made all too regularly
 * diddledan prepares the dartgun
<diddledan> thisâll either knock you out, or give you an awesome trip
 * zmoylan-pi presses concealed button raising wall revealing massive nerf collection and offers diddledan a choice of weapon...
<daftykins> D:
 * zmoylan-pi in a moment of weakness and fairplay also offers daftykins a choice of nerf weapon...
<daftykins> i should have been specific about a humane method
<zmoylan-pi> you could install win 8 on his system...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that's no good for man nor beast!
<zmoylan-pi> then upgrade him to the new version of os/2 coming out...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-31
<mappps> hi;]
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> so wet
<zmoylan-pi> warm and sticky... http://wttr.in/dublin
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Mon^WTuesday, and happy Macaroon Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> Today is a good day for listening to Genesis
<foobarry> try this instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkdLMIz-Ys
 * brobostigon agrees with SuperMatt 
 * zmoylan-pi prepares to hunt macaroons today... http://chocolatewarehouse.ie/products/caffreys-products/caffreys-macaroon-bars-56-pack/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08eKINR5TKA got you covered thanks to the late great victoria wood
<DJones> Has anybody tried freedompop for mobile sim cards? Just been looking at their plans, 200 minutes, 200 texts and 200Mb of data per month for Â£0.00, thinking about ordering one formy wifes spare phone
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong at those prices :-)
<DJones> Even Â£6.99 for unlimited talk, texts and 2,250Mb of data per month is a decent price
<SuperMatt> I'm on giffgaff and with my new commute being mostly above ground, I'm paying for the unlimited bundle
<popey> reminds me, need to get a second 3 card for wifey, for when we are out of the country
<popey> the whole 3 unlimited internet in other countries is soooo nice
 * brobostigon agrees.
<sebThreeM10white> hi
<MooDoo> hello
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<sebThreeM10white> MooDoo: zmoylan-pi hi
<sebThreeM10white> popey: ping
<popey> pong
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: classic comedy nick like it ;)
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I wonder if I can guess what device you are on..........Samsung Galaxy Tab right?
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: on a serious note how are you finding it?
<sebThreeM10white> popey: saw your pro 5 youtube videos last night ;d.  seems you got the k480 keyboard like me, but which bluteooth mouse and speakers?  I bought a cheap toner mouse hoping that would work with the m10, but nope
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2:  how is it a classic comedy nick I don't understand?
<popey> sebThreeM10white: the mouse is linked in the video
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: sebthree instead of sebsebseb :)
<MooDoo> sebThreeM10white: ignore davmor2 he's old and cranky ;)
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: uhmm  IRC, checking, emails, and llistening to music,  I don't need a big clunky lap top for that,  especially with this bluetooth keyboard and well y o2g over usb mouse that I like even
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: the three is really in there, since it was too long with the three seb's
<popey> one character longer
<davmor2> then it would of been even funnier with M10whit :D
<sebThreeM10white> plus I want to have the white in full as white, and  yes saying white, not hd :D as in the cheaper of the two :d he heh.  main difference you acstauly see is one is white and hte other is black I guess :d.  well I'll tell you when I see a FHD one if that's really true or not h eh
<popey> not entirely convinced other irc users need to know the colour of your computing device :)
<davmor2> popey: I assume sebThreeM10white goal was to keep the m10white bit in :)
<sebThreeM10white> popey: maybe not, but  for now name why not ;d.  plus my password is set up on my computer for the real name, and I don't know what it is
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I think sebsebsebM10 would be enough :)
<popey> Translate
<popey> white
<popey> bah
<MooDoo> type you're password in so you can see it, in IRC when you type in passwords we all see them as ******** ;) lol
<popey> hunter2!
<foobarry> bees.gif
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2 maybe but there's a difference between the two devices and probably enough of one to justify this :d,  plus  I don't have the one that most of the fan boys etc have
<MooDoo> popey: now that was quick
<popey>  /join #ubuntu-fanboys
<sebThreeM10white> popey: he h is there really a channel?
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: yeap but you are the only one that will care about it :)
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: to be honest I would rather have white tech in genral now, black is so boring and common and standard
 * sebThreeM10white feels he has enough black tech as it is already :d
<MooDoo> davmor2: got myself a new server that I'm going to play about with Maas I think see what happens
<davmor2> MooDoo: woohoo! let me know I haven't played with that :)
<sebThreeM10white> plus why not say that got one, nice devices,  they are still speccal really not so common etc
 * popey hugs his white bq e4.5
 * sebThreeM10white hopes BQ puts the BQ  EF HD back in stock,  but if not  ah well Meizu phones are better
<sebThreeM10white> popey:  h e h, and oh it was white for that?  yes the insiders got a differnet colour?
<popey> the white one I have was a pre-release android one
<popey> black one is ubuntu edition
<sebThreeM10white> popey: for the  MX 4 some got black or was that well linuuxvoice
<popey> dunno
<popey> mine is silver
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: I  haven't run the hack script yet to run more stuff in Xmir VLC and Inkscape and what not, something I want to do, but that hack script wont be needed at all soon it  seems for more programs :D
<sebThreeM10white> popey: do you notice on the m10 that if you,  go off  say firefox and you got music on, you don't hear it anymore
<popey> that's not surprising
<popey> but not tried that
<sebThreeM10white> popey: and also at times that the sound gets adjusted on things and becomes really loud,  that's on both  native browser and  firefox?
<sebThreeM10white> popey: also yes Flash sucks, but anyway we could actsaully have it? I mean some sites still use it stil such as BBC News
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: there is no flash, and as for ff and music are you using the device in desktop mode or tablet mode?
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: I think in both modes the music thing will happen.  at the moment a bluetooth keyboard being used, but no mouse
<sebThreeM10white> as I put  I think happens with libre.fm to same kind of thing and with the native brwoser
<sebThreeM10white> music being libre.fm
<sebThreeM10white> maybe a bug,  I mean should be able to minimise or whatever go off to another program/app  right whilst having that still on I was thinking
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no in desktop mode the app isn't in the background so in theory should continue to play, if you drop down the cog indicator you can flip it to desktop mode
<davmor2> hence asking which mode you were in :)
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: ok nice thanks :) that seemd to solve it,  putting it into desktop mode
<sebThreeM10white> I then minimzed and yep it's ok
<sebThreeM10white> in tablet mode why does it get effectd though? since other apps could have sound to/
<sebThreeM10white> ?
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: because libertine isn't using media-hub which is the service that plays audio in the background so once the app in the background it kills the audio.
<sebThreeM10white> popey: you should make more apps really for touch I think seriosly :), I love stallboard by the way :)
<sebThreeM10white> Davmor2 oh ok that explains it?  oh and so you got a tablet or phone?  maybe a dev?
<sebThreeM10white> no question for the first bit question mark none
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: think I seen you a few times in touch channel as well maybe not, hence my question
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I'm in QA at canonical my job is breaking the devices :)
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: oh didn't reolise you worked for Canonical
<popey> hah
<popey> sebThreeM10white: maybe, what apps are you missing?
<sebThreeM10white> popey: not just me in general, but I was thinking there should be more fun native apps in general at least :)
<sebThreeM10white> by they somethin basic like stallboard or something more complex
 * sebThreeM10white wonders what happended to that Fireworks app that someone made by the way
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: do Canonical give you FREE Ubuntu devices to test/break and use then :d ?
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no canonical own devices they send me to break and test on :)
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: well borrowing them from Canonical is similar to being given in that context I guess.  is popey on the wrong team he h for that, so he has to buy them him self or usually? :d
<popey> I have some from Canonical and I choose to buy my own too
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no not really, he's just a magpie he sees shiny and has to have it ;)
<popey> that too :)
<davmor2> popey: :D
<sebThreeM10white> popey: which ones did Canonical give you? why buy own as well :D ?
<popey> lots of reasons
<popey> I wanted a newer / faster device
<popey> It's a waste of money for lots of people in canonical to get devices
<sebThreeM10white> so uhmm I read somethine earluer about steam os  being dead or not really, may become big in a few years,  new platforms take time etc article yeah yeah.  and I was thinking hmm that could read as  Ubuntu touch even.   maybe in a few years it will be well a bit like desktop ubuntu now at least when it comes to the amount of users? what anyone think
<sebThreeM10white> ?
<popey> better for developers and qa people to have them
<zmoylan-pi> but not a slimmer device... guess all those marketing departments are wrong... :-P
<sebThreeM10white> popey: developers, qa, and early adopters yes
<sebThreeM10white> true if not going to use it enough,  then it's probably a waste of money realy, if you mean like that
<popey> yes
<sebThreeM10white> he eh, in a few years maybe,  when it comes to market share and quite a lot of users,  1. Iphone/Android 2.  Iphone/Android  3.  Ubuntu   possible reality or a Canonical etc dream?
<davmor2> sebThreeM10white: 1. Android 2. Iphone 3. everyone else
<zmoylan-pi> well windows phone seems intent on shooting off both feet every time they do something new, firefox phone was killed before it took it's first steps by mozilla
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2: here's one you may be able to help me with Canonical devices etc  QA :d
<zmoylan-pi> samsung still has tizen but seems to be going nowhere with it.  there are now 3 nokias, ms nokia, nokia-nokia and hmd-nokia
<sebThreeM10white> Dave: so I lost the files view etc normal top Firefox menu, don't know why, tried to bring back.  just now as I thought my bluetooth keyboare was going wrong or something, coudn't seem to type.  I pressed something not sure what,  d?  I guess some sort of keyboard combo by mistak to bring it up? but then it went  again
<sebThreeM10white> davmor2:  ^^^6
<sebThreeM10white> zymoyian-pi what's hmd nokia?  tizen yeah well can buY the r3 phone on Amazon from India, or the r1 and r3 on ebaby from India,  but yeah needs to target more than just india or marketshare wise it isn't going to go anywhere much.   I also think Firefox as a phone OS began  in the wrong direction only really targetting Africa
<zmoylan-pi> sebThreeM10white: ms sold the dumbphone nokia off to a bunch of ex nokia employees who will sell under hmd brand so that's hmd nokia http://www.cio-today.com/article/index.php?story_id=102003A95OVU
<sebThreeM10white> if Mozilla  had at least targetted Europe for example fro the begining to, it may have been a differerent story
<zmoylan-pi> they eventually intend to flog an android variant
<sebThreeM10white> oh the dumb phone thing yeah I read something about that the other day
<zmoylan-pi> i still use a dumbphone nokia as none of the current crop of smartphones gives me what i want... battery life
<sebThreeM10white> seems the dumb phone is just a basic os
<sebThreeM10white> basic phone with a basic os
<sebThreeM10white> and WIndos phones seem a bit eh really,  unless an expensive one that can do contium, but then need a sepreate device for cnonitum to uh
<zmoylan-pi> it runs java apps which allows a lot.  my nokia asha 302 does wifi, web, email, irc, mp3s, fm radio, ebook, games, camera...
<popey> zmoylan-pi: Samsung have said all new wearables will be Tizen, not Android Wear
<zmoylan-pi> probably as they have more control they can make it use less power
<popey> Tizen seems bigger in non-phone devices like cars and watches
<sebThreeM10white> but the watches are meant to go with a phone really or appranatly
<sebThreeM10white> plus no UBuntu watch any time soon it seems
<popey> we dont need a watch
<sebThreeM10white> that's what mark said in his  q and a video
<sebThreeM10white> don't need a watch why?
<popey> we have enough to do
<sebThreeM10white> such as? h eh h, jokingly. yes let's see  xmir :d libertine :D  keeping desktop ubuntu inteersing enough to, unity, etc etc
<sebThreeM10white> yeah  in a waythat's good these smart watches  haven't taken off I think
<sebThreeM10white> yet another device someone could spy on you with h e h
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time-2-and-core-an-entirely-new-3g-ultra is impressive
<popey> ~10x their target
<sebThreeM10white> oh quite cheap by the looks of it to
<sebThreeM10white> have you backe that?
<sebThreeM10white> or cheap untill customs and  shipping maybe
<popey> yes
<sebThreeM10white> seems getting the nex dock sent here is going to cost about the same as what I actually bought it for
<sebThreeM10white> apparnantly it's like 71 dollars as an example to send from Singapore to USA,  so probably about the same for UK,  plus customs I guess
<popey> ouch
<sebThreeM10white> but it is a 14 inch lap top like thing
<sebThreeM10white> with the battery etc
<zmoylan-1i> donate an ubuntuphone or two to pebble watch people and hope they write a client for ubuntu phone...
<sebThreeM10white> the battery aprpanly means can only be shipped with certain ones to,  but it came up as like fed ex and dhl anyway I think, so that's fine and standard
<popey> zmoylan-pi: there already is one
<zmoylan-1i> neat
<sebThreeM10white> a client for UBuntu and peble watch?
<popey> yes
<popey> RockWork
<zmoylan-1i> then there is a smart watch for ubuntu phone
<popey> :)
<sebThreeM10white> popey: right I am putting  something I might still fund even lower down on my list it seems, since not the best time to spend like 225 pounds on  something like that, it's in the indiego go demand stage I can probably still buy at the end of next month for example
<sebThreeM10white> still a bit on the fence about that one though
<sebThreeM10white> since the ssd card  seems like it's not so big really, once doing things
<sebThreeM10white> popey: I saw something on indiegogo the other week simlar to the chip  to I think, but I am getting that soon
<popey> oh, reminds me, arduboy ships soon
<sebThreeM10white> yes mine is aparnatly coming
<sebThreeM10white> I didn't check update my address, but I hadn't changed since putting in on kickstarter anyway, so should be fine
<sebThreeM10white> nexdock and chip want me to confirm my address before shipping anything
<sebThreeM10white> and gpd xd 128gb limited edition
<sebThreeM10white> the gpd win is the one I am hmm to,  seems a bit to pricey for what would actsaully get really.  plus there isn't much space to dual boot with Linux anyway sdd space
<sebThreeM10white> and there's the for even more money, the open pandora update the whatever it was called
<sebThreeM10white> popey:  would you import something from India? or would you think hmm?  I mean like the tIzen R3 phone for example
<sebThreeM10white> very very very very low on the things I may want to buy that are tech mind list,  but  yes might be something having one of those
<sebThreeM10white> I mean as someone who likes playing around with differnet oses :)
<popey> sebThreeM10white: sure, why not
<popey> here you go, on the subject of tizen and apps.. top 20 apps in the tizen store in April 2016  http://imgur.com/OHlThlQ
<popey> #1 unsurprisingly whatsapp
<zmoylan-pi> 20billion well spent by facebook
<popey> this is the #2 app http://www.downloadtizenapps.com/2016/04/bus-race-3d-for-tizen-phone-realistic-bus-racing-simulation.html
<zmoylan-pi> i do worry for opera browser now that a chinese company has bought it
<SuperMatt> just switch to vivaldi
<zmoylan-pi> vivaldi won't run on my nokia phone :-)
<popey> that shareit app icon looks familiar :)
<sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: oh I haven't seen that, what's happended to  Opera who bought it? got a link?
<sebThreeM10white> popey: which Pebel perk did you do and not do and why?
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.techinasia.com/chinese-tech-companies-bought-opera
<popey> sebThreeM10white: the new pebble 2 because it has a better screen, smaller bezel etc
<popey> and i really like my pebble
<zmoylan-pi> i keep looking at pebbles in shops but it would be a little sad to have a watch with a better processor than my phone :-) i'd have to sync with an old tablet so only under wifi coverage notifications
 * brobostigon hugs his pebble.
<brobostigon> although my partner forces me to wear my g watch when we go out, as she thinks it looks smarter.
<zmoylan-pi> you could wear the pebble on your ankle and check it when she's not looking... :-P
<brobostigon> hehe :D
<sebThreeM10white> popey: oh you already got a pebele. and what's the point of them really,  seems it's for seeing progress in the gym or from running and that's about it really these smart watches, going by that kick starter page
<popey> I have a pebble time, yes
<sebThreeM10white> what do you ise ti for?
<sebThreeM10white> use
<sebThreeM10white> what do you use it for?
 * brobostigon uses it as a watch, it tells the time dont you know.
<sebThreeM10white> brobostigon: well sure an expensive  watch, to tell time, but what else, and I was asking popey
<brobostigon> sebThreeM10white: notifications are handy, so i dont mis calls etc, when i am away from my phone doing jobs etc. and also a nice programming challange, building apps watchfaces etc.
<sebThreeM10white> hmm
<sebThreeM10white> why should I maybe have a smart watch seriously?
<popey> that's only something you can answer :)
<brobostigon> :)
 * sebThreeM10white saw someone with the Tizen Samsung S2 or whatever  and  yeah
<sebThreeM10white> saw whatever at FOSDEM to
<sebThreeM10white> tizezen ones
<sebThreeM10white> but wha's wrong with well a standard old styled digital watch :d ?
<brobostigon> i got my pebble, because my previous mechanical watch died, and it seemed a good replacement with additional benefits.
<zmoylan-pi> 1) if you want to cut down on the amount of times you check your phone in polite company as notifications are on your wrist 2) health monitor facilities 3) pure unadulterated geekiness
 * sebThreeM10white doesn't really use watches anymore since smart phones
 * sebThreeM10white 
 * sebThreeM10white was never particuarly good at running hmm
 * sebThreeM10white should maybe go to the gym again,  but got quite skinny because of certain reasons
<popey> i rarely wore a watch before I got a pebble
<sebThreeM10white> in other words I am not so sure the health app would be used much if at all really
<brobostigon> its no substitude in my mind, taking your phone out all the time just to check the time has several disadvantages, takes longer to check the time, is not perticularly polite and causes uneccesery extra drain on your phone battery when not needed.
<brobostigon> ie, more screen on time.
<sebThreeM10white> well peble hmm  something to think about I guess
<zmoylan-pi> also increases risk of dropping it as we often put them in pockets not optimally placed when sitting
<sebThreeM10white> and popey said there is an app already for UBuntgu touch? for it?
<brobostigon> yep.
<brobostigon> to both.
<sebThreeM10white> annoying thing with kickstarer and indiego is to you pay the money pretty much there and then
<sebThreeM10white> when you fund it
<zmoylan-pi> better that way so you will only risk money that you won't miss
<sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi:  yeah but still need to have the money at the time in the first place
<sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: unless I guess maybe putting the bill on a credit card instead of a debit card?
<sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: money that won't miss... but you may do a bit, once someone goes off with it instead, and you get nothing, that already happended to me with one
<sebThreeM10white> so I am more careful now when it comes to crowd funding
<Myrtti> I can't live without my watch, and upgrade from a Casio LA670WEA to a Moto360v2 was welcome upgrade for me
<diddledan> oh, awesome! dnsmasq is removed from yakkety!
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> etc/resolve.conf will have the correct nameservers again
<diddledan> ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-May/039350.html
<zmoylan-pi> an end of an era... no more cz tab
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> nooooooo
 * diddledan rocks gently in the corner as the world changes around him
<sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon looks like could even get all three on there for a reasonable price, but why are they crowd funding if they are already established company?
<popey> ask them
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the chocolate hobnobs and coaxs diddledan out of the corner...
<diddledan> nobnobs!
<sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon if the 337 was pounds that would  be a bit uh, but 230 pounds seems reasonable for all three
<diddledan> my precious
<brobostigon> lol.
<LauraFautley> Aloha :)
<diddledan> allo LauraFautley
 * brobostigon watches diddledan turn.
<sebThreeM10white> LauraFautley: hi
<sebThreeM10white> popey: I just tried to search for a pebble app in the ubuntu store, didn't  get that far, you sure there is  one? :d
<sebThreeM10white> on the tablet I searched
<sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon that peble offer seems like quite a good one, when comparing the price to what the Samsung Gear S2 with Tizen would sell for
<sebThreeM10white> so get three for the price of one of those basically
<sebThreeM10white> three pebles for the price of one s2 basically
<brobostigon> sebThreeM10white: you dont need to highlight me for every question, i will answer if i can.
<sebThreeM10white> altough there would be some vat and customs as well I guess
<brobostigon> import tax, and vat, yes.
<sebThreeM10white> which would be rougly how much
<sebThreeM10white> 30 pounds?
<brobostigon> vat is 20%, as a watch is jewellery.
<sebThreeM10white> hmm so quite high?
<brobostigon> having to pay 205 extra depending on amound can make a big differenc.
<brobostigon> 20%
<popey> sebThreeM10white: it's called rockwork, and it's in the open store, not the default one
<sebThreeM10white> well 337 is the peble all three perk for  example.  and one watch would come first, then the next later, and then the last later
<sebThreeM10white> 337 dollars that is
<sebThreeM10white> popey: oh ok that explaisn why I coudn't find, why not in the default store
<sebThreeM10white> but don't have to worry about vat and customs untill something actsaully comes I guess anyway :d
<sebThreeM10white> how is the peble better than the  tizen s2?  or isn't it really or both about the same?
<brobostigon> thats for you to decide, dpending on many different factors, which fits and works better for you.
<brobostigon> research, :)
<sebThreeM10white> hmm right
<sebthreeM10HD> hi
<tt>  
<sebthreeM10HD> better nick?
<sebthreeM10HD> oh the..
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok
<Switches> Evening
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> happy end of May!
<Switches> lol yeah
<zmoylan-pi> roll on june, kids off school, traffic eases up
<Switches> lol guess that's one way to see it
<Switches> I came to a big revelation today..
<daftykins> ooh?
<zmoylan-pi> when the sun shines it's very warm? :-)
<Switches> I hate ubuntu for being such a great distro.. Every time I find something I think I can switch to I begin to miss ppas/snaps/forums/easy driver installs and everything just working without fuss xD
<daftykins> haha
<Switches> Was trying Devuan, Calculate Linux, FreeBSD they all are great but each on just misses the mark with something or other..
<SebthreeBQM10HD> zmoylan-pi, yes half term
<Switches> Was hoping to move away from systemd, but tbh I would rather trust Ubuntu and Canonical to keep it in line within Ubuntu than any of the ones without it >.>
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, SystemD is fine :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, so what what it uses for boot up and such if it works :)
<Switches> systemd is a "virus" even the creator calls it an "operating system as a virus" :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, got a link for that?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, and I seen him do a talk and he didn't call it that :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that was like two years or so ago now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or about
<Switches> yeah gimme a sec its on poeterings blog
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it's a bit like Unity
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and
<SebthreeBQM10HD> other distros in that context let me explain :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for other distros it's like Uh Unity!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> all other distros :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok maybe not the best comparion thing but if you get me, it makes sense :d
<Switches> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html on there somewhere
<SebthreeBQM10HD> even the Ubuntu based distros don't just want to use Unity as well! most or all of them
<Switches> Well I find unity fine tbh but then thats me
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, SystemD is no big deal :)  I used one of the very first distros to go SystemD just well fine with SystemD and that distro was Mageia :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I quite like Unity 8
<Switches> Hey I got a strong dislike for a big "money making" firm being behind anything :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I woudn't have more than one Ubuntu device if I didn't like Unity  8 I guess :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or woudn't just have
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, right but I Have already thought about that, there used to be Xandros and Lindows/Linspire trying to make  money like Canonical has but only from the desktop for those two
<SebthreeBQM10HD> there used to be Mandrake/Mandriva trying to make money like that to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> those all died out
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess there just has to be one, that's commerical and really popular, and that's now Ubuntu and has been for quite a lot of years already
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh and Canonical is finally doing some proper inovating as well really!  yes Unity 8 Mir, Ubuntu tablets phones, that kind of stuff
<zmoylan-pi> a few days too late for international towel day... an electronic monk \o/ http://boingboing.net/2016/05/31/meet-the-robot-buddhist-monk.html
<daftykins> niiiice
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I remember when Ubuntu was uh, since they patched GNOME 2, and changed the theme to something that I thought was horrible in 10.04,  and to be honest at that time, it seemd that's about all Canonical really did
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh yeah and the year before they had made Ubuntu Sofware Centre, and I think Ubuntu One as well
<Switches> I been with ubuntu since the start, I've seen the projects they have done, Upstart, Launchpad, Bazaar among them, Upstart was great and was even in Fedora until RedHat decided it wanted its own systemd to be the "flag bearer" and thats what worries me
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and around that time a nice netbook remix interface, but  it seemed that Canonical didn't really do much back then,  trying to invoate change the Linux desktop etc and properly, from the other ones,  but now years later can see the direction of where things  have been heading, and are wel heading now.  yes shows nicely that with Ubuntu Phones nad tablet,s unity 8 etc
 * daftykins emits some expletives regarding netbooks
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, the start so 14.10 ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, what was that?
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> try Warty Warthog was my first ubuntu :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I Typed wrong number by mistake
<daftykins> back in the brown days, or was that pre brown?
<Switches> it's 4.07 was the very first
<Switches> (i think)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I meant  04.10 ????  whatever the number is for warty
<SebthreeBQM10HD> !warty
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 4.10 (Warty Warthog) was the first release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 30, 2006. See !eol for more details.
<Switches> Ohh it was brown...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok 4.10 yeah that's it
<Switches> Well I was actually testing it when it went up on the blueyonder servers back then :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I started with 5.04  BUT Ubuntu wasn't my first distro FEdora Core 2 and 4 were, but offline useage I coudn't get wireless to work
<daftykins> blueyonder, now there's a name that rings a bell o0
<Switches> :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then Ubuntu seemed fine for years
<daftykins> i find it amazing to think of the hours i spent in front of a computer that was offline, now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ,but then
<Switches> Debian and Slackware were my first "Linux"s
<SebthreeBQM10HD> they started doing some things in 2009 that I Didn't like so much to GNOME no big deal, but when 10.04 came out I was like uh!  I was quite a bit younger then to so :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 10.04 I didn't like even after changing some stuff etc back
<SebthreeBQM10HD> didn't just leave UBuntu though, but started going in a diffenret direction around then
<SebthreeBQM10HD> when Unity  7 got made well was ok ish sure for what it was, but I Preferd GNOME 3 GNOME Shell :)
<Switches> Tbh Gnome made changes (3.0)and did that aswell and still are :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> even my old test version developers test versison that I had from repos in Mandriva 2010 series
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that went on top of GNOME 2
<SebthreeBQM10HD> still got that on my old net book :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> old ish
<Switches> Well even Unity uses gnome libraries
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Unitty 7 yeah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 8 is diffenret though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> different
<Switches> Yeah I know, I been testing it out a bit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, on the desktop?
<user2635> Hi all :)
<Switches> Yep
<SebthreeBQM10HD> user2635, yeah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> just hi for you yeah was for Switches
<user2635> i'm havin' a go at switching to linux
<user2635> i'm using ubuntu now
<Switches> It was a little broken last time I checked :p but you can def see the direction they are going
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I installed from the repos into upgraded 15.10 to 16.04  and it worked sure, but then I did stuff with the ppa after that etc and things went wrong :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, it works rather nicely on the Ubuntu Phones and tablets :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, 16.10 should be interesting for that, since Unity 8 with libertine I guess as well by default :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean as a default opioton form the screen
<Switches> Well Unity 8 isn't the default desktop but libertine does seem bloody interesting I will admit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also Ubuntu Touch won't have a version based on 16.10 it seems, but one on 16.04 probably, so I guess the focus will be mostly the desktop for 16.10 then
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, using libertine right now on my tablet :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or uh purtine even which is the like tablet demo of some apps  pre installed for the tablet with liberitne
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Unity  8 runs well Ubuntu phone/table store apps,  or  other things via libertine that's the idea
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, libertine for xmir
<Switches> Damn kids!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, oh?
<Switches> Yeah I know mate, it sounds like its going to be fun X11 apps in a kind of container for unity 8
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, yep fun :d
<Switches> Daughter asking me to go downstairs and then says she doesn't want anything
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, find out what works or not etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or how well it works or not etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I could run more stuff on this tablet if I Had done the hack not treid yet, but something is coming in a over the air update soon I think so hack won't be needed then
<SebthreeBQM10HD> swithces how old is she?
<Switches> Well looking at it from the outside, I think Canonical got a little bit of experience with "container" like apps, being they are the biggest in the cloud so far :p
<Switches> 17
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah they got on some cloud things true
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Ubuntu is not liked by many
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also a lot of this "inovation" is really happening since they are commerical and trying to set things up, so they can make some actsaul future money
<SebthreeBQM10HD> profit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I can't see how most distros would even try and target the phone and tablet, too much work etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for little gain
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but not in Canoica's case if it works out enough, profit profit profit
<Switches> Well that's not really how I see it, being that not one of the competitors as it were have a "desktop" focused version like ubuntu does :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, what do you mean by that exactly?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> most other distros use upsteram project so GNOME KDE etc, and do branding changes and what not, but they are dfiently desktop focused most other distros :).  Fedora, Open Suse, Mageia, PC Linux OS, etc etc, thousands of them
<Switches> RedHat doesn't have a "desktop" version anymore, openSUSE hasn't got a desktop version the rest are pretty niche
<Switches> They are not focused on the general "desktop" user and never have been, if they were they would be a little more like how the kernel works and stop breaking stuff :p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Redhat has a desktop version what are you on about it's called Fedora. there's also Red hat enterpise LInux for work station desktops,  you know what there's  cent os as well for desktops.  SUSE has a desktop version it's called OpenSuse
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I disagree enterigly
<Switches> Fedora has a Workstation and a Server, not a desktop version
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Mageia, Fedora, Open SUse, most distros are difneitn yfocussed at desktop users
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, so if a distro is llow down on distrowatch you think it's niche he h?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean in the top 10
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but low down
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also Fedora's workstation version is the desktop PC and lap tops versibion
<Switches> They are not aimed at desktop users, they are aimed at Devs.. that's why they never made an inroads on desktops, the same reason they fell behind on Canonical in the Cloud
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, that is not true at all of say Mageia :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, that's one of hte distros that keeps the old Mandriva/Mandrake living on and that's definetly focussed at normal users anyone who wants to run it and for destkops :)
<Switches> Fedora's Workstation is not for a desktop if it was you wouldn't need Copr or the Fedora Tweak tool
<SebthreeBQM10HD> before Ubuntu
<SebthreeBQM10HD> there was a time when Mandrake the old name for Mandriva was the like most popular desktop distro as well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Fedora is for desktop pcs but it's generally aimed at sioghtly more expereinced users
<Switches> Mandrake had one good thing Dracut and even that wasn't all theirs it was partly suse
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, the control centre in Mageia,  PC Linux OS, and anything linked to the old Mandriva/Mandrake is difnetlty for the desktop :)
<Switches> How can you say its for desktops... It's rules are to strict for any desktop user
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Mageia is dfienetly for the desktops :)
<Switches> No its not
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not on the council for that anymore, but  I am going to be in the meeting for that now :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, yes it is and I know as someone who got invovled with that distro :)
<Switches> any distro that uses RPM and has to change it to URPM is not a "Desktop" focused distro
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it's still RPM,  just the commands aren't yast
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it's urpmi from the old Mandriva days
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so Mageia itself has never changed any of that
<Switches> Mageia is a community driven project..
<Switches> I don't see that as a "Desktop" focused distro, its a community distro which Ive seen hundreds come and go over the years
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a community driven project mostly aimed at people who want to run it on normal PC's and lap tops yes
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a community driven project mostly aimed at people who want to run it on normal PC's and lap tops yes
<Switches> Well each to their own I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, most desktop LInux distros use GNOME, KDE,  and things like that, Mate these days even Cinnamon as optoins etc,  upstream projects
<Switches> Cinnamon is not an upstream project... its a fork
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, but since Ubuntu has a commercial company behind it and a community, they can become upstrema for there own thing Unity
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and be differnet form all the other distros
<user2635> Anyone use KeePass? I don't know if I can ask here..
<SebthreeBQM10HD> who won't just use Unity
<daftykins> "if you can ask" ? what
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, forks  then become upstream projectd to
<user2635> its more of a 'transitioning from windows' question
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, can take an already existing program and make a new one, and then be a upstream of the new project
<Switches> No they don't a fork is a fork.. no matter how you split it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, upstream usually means that some other project wants to use your project though
<user2635> in Keepass you can use the global hotkeys and I normally use lock workspace
<user2635> but in Ubuntu, I can't do that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a fork is something living on or living on in a diffent way
<Switches> ...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, most distros have forked off some other distro that already existed as well, or got based on it
<Switches> Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome3 it makes no changes apart from shell..
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> PC LInux OS was a fork of Mandrake back in 2003 but now is  quite diffenret from   when it forked
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Mate is a fork of GNOME 2, but is now it's own project Mate, and so anything that uses Mate will use the upstream Mate
<SebthreeBQM10HD> upstream being where a program comes from in this context
<SebthreeBQM10HD> be that an orignally made program, or a fork of some program that already existed
 * daftykins yawns
<Switches> Ok you see it that way..
<SebthreeBQM10HD> if you base a distro on a fork ,  you could say your upstream is the forked distro
<SebthreeBQM10HD> if it takes loads of things from it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Ubuntu is also a fork of Debian in that context then
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, UBuntu is a fork!
<Switches> If you think that I suggest you go and look what a "fork" and "derivative" is
<daftykins> :)
<user2635> For the KeePass users, I'm coming from Windows and I used to use the easy CTRL-ALT-K to unlock workspace. How do I turn this on for linux?
<Switches> Hmm closest Ubuntu has to that is probably its screenlock, although I don't use it, so can't really help much more than that.
<Switches> I know it had some shortcut for it, should be in system settings/keyboard I would guess
<user2635> screenlock? is that a password manager?
<user2635> i'm confused
<user2635> alternatively, what password managers do you guys use on linux
<Switches> Well we have seahorse which is a password mananger, if you go to dash and type passwords it will find it
<Switches> Icon is a set of keys. Not sure if that's what you're looking for though.. I never really use "password" managers other than for "gpg" stuff tbh (Thunderbird Enigmail as an example)
<Switches> Also if it helps there may be a download on http://keepass.info/
<hazrpg> Hey all \o
<Switches> heya
<hazrpg> Just wondering, but is anyone else having trouble with nvidia drivers on Ubuntu 16.04? I get a blank screen after the splash whenever I run `prime-select nvidia`
<hazrpg> Running on intel works fine, but once I switch to nvidia it breaks.
<daftykins> check you've got no mixed version components?
<daftykins> dpkg -l | grep nvidia*
<daftykins> er no *
<hazrpg> daftykins: I don't think I have: paste.ubuntu.com/16874188
<hazrpg> oh wait, nvidia-settings has `ubuntu1` and the rest have `ubuntu2` at the end...
<hazrpg> Just thought I'd mention, I tripple boot - so I have ubuntu twice (one for testing the latest version)... the second one (that I use for testing) I managed to solve the issue there, but I can't replicate the same solution on my main install - the only difference is that I upgrade the main one from 14.04 to 16.04, and the other one was from 15.10 to 16.04.
<hazrpg> upgraded*
<hazrpg> I mounted the second install and tried diffing `/etc/X11/xorg.conf` between the two and they are idential
<hazrpg> I was wondering if anyone knew any other files I could possibly try diffing
<user2635> Switches, seahorse??
<user2635> !info seahorse
<lubotu3> seahorse (source: seahorse): GNOME front end for GnuPG. In component main, is optional. Version 3.18.0-2ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 414 kB, installed size 2116 kB
<user2635> oh right.. this is more for emails and signing off.. not a password manager
<Switches> Yeah, I did find a http://keepass.info/ site that may help, was just looking it has a download for Ubuntu and Deb
<Switches> found*
<user2635> actually i already use KeePass
<user2635> it was just a specific question for those who used it
<Switches> Ahh sorry
<user2635> but i've solved it for now :)
<Switches> Great!
<user2635> there's a lot for me to learn still to get used to linux
<user2635> i've learned that I have to think of everything in packages now..
<user2635> even drivers and stuff like that
<Switches> You'll never stop learning :), it's one of the great things about Linux in general :)
<user2635> i'm not even technical
<user2635> so its a bit harder for me
<user2635> I know how to use basic commands like cd ls sudo apt-get but I don't know how useful it will be for me
<Switches> Just take you're time, if you get stuck ask in #ubuntu (patience needed) or post on the forums.
<user2635> I only use it in tutorials, not like I have actually used it by myself (with no browser window open)
<hazrpg> user2635: We were all in your possition once, trust me it gets easier... and the more you learn, the less likely you are to go back!
<user2635> Switches, agreed, doesn't always work as I'm impatient! :)
<Switches> lol
<user2635> hazrpg, I still dual boot in case. besides windows is still the platform for gaming
<user2635> but I'm trying to be more secure through linux as a primary os
<Switches> well sometimes the forums are faster tbh, but just remember "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers" it really is true in Linux
<user2635> is there anything you guys wished you learned earlier?
<user2635> pertaining to day-to-day pc usage through linux
<Switches> Hmm for me would probably have been vi/vim, never got the hang of them to their full extent
<user2635> ohhh
<user2635> i only know nano..
<Switches> Same pretty much nano/pico are my main ones xD
<hazrpg> user2635: I use to think that too, don't get me wrong I triple boot (Windows being one of them), but I honestly can't remember the last time I used Windows. I did a full blown switch back in 2010 (literally no Windows at all!), and since I've learned that there is more you can do in Linux with a bit of patience - even gaming! I only triple booted over the last year or so because a client handed me a file
<hazrpg>  that could only be opened with a windows app that I couldn't get to work through Wine - haven't used it since.
<user2635> hazrpg, you're crazy, I don't know if I can get that crazy yet
<user2635> hazrpg, there are lots of stories like yours though, I'm aware
<user2635> main thing i'm worried about is opening word docs
<hazrpg> Haha, I have Word running through wine ;)
<user2635> the compatibility is not 100% so there can be format differences through libreoffice
<Switches> Well I switched from Windows while I was actually still and OEM for Microsoft.. I've not actually used Windows at home for the past 15 years or so lol
<user2635> hazrpg, I see, thats on my to do list to work out later on
<daftykins> now now, it may be getting better but you can't game *MORE* in Linux :P
<hazrpg> Its rare that LibreOffice won't open them without problems, but in those situations... wine works well with Word :)
<hazrpg> daftykins: For everything else, I have my PS4 ;)
<Switches> I don't know daftykins, there are certain "genres" that seem to be around a lot more for Linux than Windows, small little childrens games imo are better on Linux than anywhere else (like the teaching ones)
<user2635> I've got to say, i don't know any nontechs using linux (even the techies I know don't use linux!)
<Switches> lol
<user2635> so its pretty hard to meet someone to learn from other than irc
<Switches> Well techies can be a weird breed :p
<hazrpg> daftykins: Although, don't get me wrong, I can't play StarCraft 2 on my PS4... but that works in Wine no problem (although I should point out, that paying for CrossOver helped sooooooooooooo much when I started getting lazy)
<daftykins> can't say i touch small children games!
<zmoylan-pi> i don't know any technical people _NOT_ using linux
<user2635> zmoylan-pi, good for you!
<daftykins> i count if you are referring to desktop OS :P
<Switches> I used to have quite a bit to do with them when I was teaching IT, but outside of that I don't use them at home :p
<hazrpg> Switches: part of me wonders if that's because die-hard linux nerds are also programmers that have kids though ;)
<zmoylan-pi> most techs i know use linux for desktop os
<Switches> hazrpg: That's sometimes the case :D
<Switches> zmoylan-pi: Is a secret MS fan mind, He has it installed on a small box in the basement :p
<user2635> I'm not a programmer, not clever enough
<zmoylan-pi> where i can administer punishment beatings that it deserves...
<Switches> lol
<user2635> It might be an alternate career otherwise
<Switches> user2635: You can pick up a lot using Linux, even parts of coding.
<hazrpg> user2635: Programming isn't really that hard - getting the skills needed for a career just takes practice. :)
<hazrpg> I'm going to sound old here, but I remember when computers came with manuals that thought you to programme using the build-in (or provided) programming language
<hazrpg> taught* not thought
<user2635> hazrpg, You do sound old. LOL
<Switches> lol BBC Micro times then :p
<user2635> Switches, hazrpg thanks guys
 * zmoylan-pi loved the zx spectrum manual.  taught you everything
<hazrpg> XD - I'm not that old! :P
<user2635> Where is everyone based?
<user2635> I'm b'ham
<hazrpg> Still haven't hit 30 yet
 * hamitron has concluded linux is bad for productivity... entertaining IRC channels are too distracting
<zmoylan-pi> dublin, ireland o/
<Switches> No worries :D
<Switches> Ahh you're still a young'un then hazrpg
<Switches> Bristol here
<user2635> zmoylan-pi, coolios
<user2635> hamitron, IRC is very distracting!
<user2635> I'll tell you all though, if there's one thing I love, its tab completion.
<hazrpg> user2635: to your earlier comment, it depends on the circles you follow... I once didn't know anyone that didn't use Linux at all, now all the people I know do. You tend to find you influence people, if you become knowledgable in something - especially when you can give them a good reason to switch ;)
<hazrpg> user2635: Cumbria
<Switches> Well we even have the one and only popey! here the voice of Mycroft ofc it's distracting lol
<user2635> hazrpg, I didn't even know about Cumbria.. until now
<user2635> lol
<hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: Didn't personally have a ZX, but I did see the manual, amazing! I had a Sharp MZ-700 handed down from my dad.
<popey> heh
<Switches> For some people Windows is what they need (even for it's problems) for anyone who has any interest in IT, Linux is a great place to start
<hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: My friends were rocking ZX's and C64's... I had the ancient MZ-700 :/ - still fun though :)
<user2635> Switches, yeah.. i'm interested, Linux is a great place to start and yet I have no idea where exactly to start.. lol
<Switches> hazrpg: rofl the MZ-700 was a good system, but was a bit of a brick..
<hazrpg> Switches: young, yes, but lets be honest - every day still feels like a school day
<Switches> Well you're already using it user2635, so you have started :)
<zmoylan-pi> you can tell real linux users when they fire up their windows systems that hasn't been updated in 6 months and it takes forever to do updates... :-)
<user2635> So what DEs are you guys using?
<user2635> yeah i agree windows is so dam slow
<user2635> I'm Unity, since i'm a beginner
<Switches> For me it's Ubuntu Unity, also use Gnome and KDE when I have to
<user2635> I know about i3, which is very hardcore
<Switches> i3 is a terminal junkies wonderland
<zmoylan-pi> i use xfce on xubuntu as i don't like unity
<hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: XD I dread opening mine for that reason along!
<user2635> tbh, I like whatever DE allows me to press super, search a program to start it
<user2635> I believe in xfce you can press alt f2
<Switches> :)
 * hazrpg opens windows, shutdown... please wait while we install updates before you can continue with your shutdown...
<user2635> zmoylan-pi, is that right?
<daftykins> hazrpg: that's only if you don't know how to run Windows.
<Switches> A lot of the DE have that ability now user2635, there isn't a great difference between any of them at the base, its more aesthetic
<hazrpg> Switches: MZ-700 was a brick! Still have it, tried for years to get my hands on the printer upgrade... still haven't found one! I just had the tape drive, and some classic games.
<Switches> :D
<user2635> Switches, I see, I think Unity is still better for email integration and playing music. Feels more like a notification tray to me like windows
<zmoylan-pi> never tried it. i just have a bunch of shortcuts i can start a few keystokes
<Switches> Classic tech ftw
<Switches> user2635: Yeah, Unity is a little weird to get used to for certain things, but once you get used to it, it becomes a real joy
<Switches> Like the ability to hold the "Windows" key and bring up shortcuts or open the programs in the Launcher on the left by just hitting the number
<hazrpg> daftykins: heh, it was an over exaggerating.
<user2635> Switches, thats very important for me.. I like learning shortcuts
<daftykins> just annoys me the stuff Linux folk say :P
<Switches> lol
<Switches> The worst "Linux Folk" are the actual ones that know about it :p
<hazrpg> daftykins: I can understand that. :P
<Switches> We tend to get very strong and passionate opinions...
<hazrpg> I can indeed agree to that!
<zmoylan-pi> as long as everyone agrees vim is best we all get along :-P
<Switches> lol
<hazrpg> lol
<Switches> emacs!
<user2635> I can see myself getting irc addicted
<user2635> its going to make me antisocial
<user2635> i better keep it to only asking questions lol
<daftykins> depends if said passionate nature is enlightened enough to accept that nothing is without fault
<hazrpg> user2635: or... VERY social ;) (just not irl social :P)
<zmoylan-pi> well irc is the anti social media...
<Switches> hmm zmoylan-pi I think you're right
<Switches> IRC is actually the anti everything media
<hazrpg> Then why are you all here! :o
<Switches> That was even more true when Quakenet used to be a "big" thing cause of Gamespy :p
<Switches> Because were all anti-social
<user2635> Gamespy, haven't heard that word in ages
<Switches> They think sticking all the "anti social" elements in on place called IRC was a good idea...
<hazrpg> Is it bad that I remember Quakenet? My friends thought I was some weird kind of computer wizard just because I knew how to play quake with people at any time of the day - and they couldn't even get local multi-play to work >_<
<user2635> I used to go on AA (America's Army)
<Switches> lol
<Switches> AA was a damn good game
<Switches> Played it for years
<Switches> I used to play a lot of quake..
<user2635> I cheated at one point
<user2635> what was the specific term for it
<user2635> seeing through stuff
<user2635> to see enemies
<Switches> Wallhacking
<hazrpg> Switches: I think most people did - at our school, quake was installed on all the computers by the teacher!
<user2635> yeah.. that, I feel bad for appearing like I had super reflexes
<user2635> lol
<Switches> hazrpg: My kind of teacher :D
<user2635> I never went on quake, i think i'm one of the younger ones here
<hazrpg> Switches: She was a legend!
<Switches> quake was a bit of a phenomenon tbh, it was the spark that started the online FPS pretty much
<hazrpg> I felt bad for the kids who didn't learn because of it though... I think I was the only one that passed her IT lessons with high marks.
<Switches> hehe, yeah playing quake can have an adverse effect on learning anything
<hazrpg> Indeed it can!
<Switches> Apart from learning how to "Rocket Jump" to reach the quad damage...
<hazrpg> That was super important though!
<user2635> Part of my backup failed on dejadup, it said that it couldn't backup /home/user/.cache/dconf
<user2635> what is stored there anyway?
<user2635> is it to worry about?
<hazrpg> user2635: Generally speaking, anything that's cached doesn't really need to be backed up.
<user2635> hazrpg, thanks
<Switches> Nothing to worry about I don't think.. just watch for sparks and flames and you'll be fine! :p
<Switches> Being honest though I don't know why its trying to back up a .cache folder anyways, those are normally not monitored
<hazrpg> user2635: cached stuff only just speeds up operations - and dconf, in some ways, is kinda like the registery in windows (regedit)... but has much less stuff then in Windows.
<Switches> If it fails on it again, open up the "backup" program and on the ignore folders part just add it to that
<hazrpg> general rule, if its cache it will be rebuilt if they aren't there
<user2635> ok I'll put it in ignore now
<hazrpg> it just takes longer if the cache isn't there the very first time something is opened
<user2635> good! added
<hazrpg> (btw, that's a cool trick if something isn't working properly - sometimes clearing the cache helps!)
<hazrpg> bah, still can't work out why nvidia isn't working right :/
<Switches> What's it doing?
<daftykins> logs? :>
<daftykins> hybrid is a mess on Linux
<hazrpg> Switches: blank screen after the splash
<Switches> ohh it's a prime?
<hazrpg> yup, laptop too... and I can't disable secure boot
<user2635> hazrpg, you mean just doing a rm -r .cache? :)
<daftykins> see if you can SSH in if it's really running but blank?
<hazrpg> user2635: only if you want to truly be distructive! :P I meant more at an application level rm -r .cache/some-app
<user2635> hazrpg, ohhh ok
<hazrpg> daftykins: using it right now! I'm on irssi
<daftykins> oh
<hazrpg> user2635: clearing out .cache won't really cause any harm - just take longer to load anything after the fact
<Switches> hazrpg: You took a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2263209?
<Switches> There's a guy at the bottom that seems to have a "workaround" for some of it
<hazrpg> Switches: Not sure, I'll check on my tablet. I mainly tried the stuff on askubuntu.com
<Switches> Well seems to be the last post, so I'm guessing it has solved it for some people.
<user2635> What difficulties did you guys have transitioning to linux?
<Switches> I didn't really have any tbh, but then my background was with Unix and Sun Solaris systems so it wasn't as huge a jump as it is now from Windows
<hazrpg> Switches: The second workaround won't work because I don't have that indicator installed (use to, but it caused more problems than it was worth). I'm going to try the first to see if that works, but from what I can tell prime-select is working, nvidia just doesn't seem to be "showing" anything even though I can hear the Ubuntu noise at boot... but I'll give it a go :)
<Switches> Only real issue I had was being able to do some things without a terminal :p
<Switches> hazrpg: Hope it works!
<hazrpg> Switches: file changed, fingers crossed!
<user2635> ok i'm gonna call it goodnight
<Switches> night mate
<user2635> it was great meeting you all hazrpg Switches
<user2635> zmoylan-pi,
<Switches> Same :)
<user2635> thank you for all your guys help
<Switches> No worries, anytime
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<hazrpg> Switches: *sigh* didn't work
<Switches> :(
<hazrpg> hmmm one thing i didnt consider is screen brightness!
<hazrpg> going to see if that fixes it when i get back... currently picking up my wife from work
<hazrpg> I'm going to be annoyed with myself if thats the reason its blank when using nvidia over intel
<hazrpg> ...maybe not
<diddledan> m00
<zmoylan-pi> *bark* *bark*
<diddledan> baaa
<diddledan> omg, welsh!
<daftykins> here's a blast from the past https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w7z0xa2pkrfwvg1/AACCM4flIZ0qHpjxxZnAXNMCa?dl=0
<daftykins> thing still works!
<diddledan> erhmagherd
<daftykins> optical media O_O
<diddledan> optics?! :-o
<diddledan> nobody uses those
<daftykins> i was gonna FTP the game on, but i couldn't read the ISO so it had to get burnt
<diddledan> \o/
<Switches> Clever gits! http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-Staging-1.9.11
<Switches> And wtf.. there are rumors on there that the AMD announcement is going to have a R480 at $199..
<daftykins> *nod* not R480 though, RX 480
<daftykins> the live event is at 3am allegedly
<Switches> Still Polaris for that cheap is kind of a big deal
<Switches> Yeah hopefully they got some details on the GPUs aswell as the APU
<daftykins> only fussed about the graphics cards myself :) itching for an upgrade, mines so ancient
<Switches> Well same here, but tbh the new APU has me a little interested for a HTPC/NAS build
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> storage in the same place as playback ;_;
<Switches> Well kind of, I have 4 other systems in the house and loads of tablets and phones xD
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-01
<Switches> But at the mo they are all separate pretty much, since my server went and died :p
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> when mines down entertainment is greatly limited, such as when my PSU failed
<Switches> Yeah I can't say I didn't get my time outta my little Dell tbh, I got it from a company I was working at when they were going to bin it.. It's probably around 15 years old xD
<daftykins> what died?
<Switches> Memory
<Switches> And its ECC Reg dimms, was looking at getting some for it, but haven't found any that will actually work.
<Switches> Plus the fact that ones I have found have been in the Â£600 range, I can build a decent system for that :p
<daftykins> ooh i misread the date on the press embargo being June 29th, i doubt i'll want to wait for AMD's offerings
<daftykins> (that's just the Polaris press event)
<Switches> :(
<diddledan> how did you get ahold of the date when it's embargoed?
<daftykins> http://videocardz.com/60373/amd-polaris-tech-day-nda-ends-on-june-29th
<diddledan> so is the "June 1st Event" in an hour and a bit or in 25hours and a bit?
<diddledan> i.e. GMT says it's June 1st now. but they might be using a merry can time
<daftykins> http://videocardz.com/60686/watch-amd-computex-polaris-update-live-stream-here
<daftykins> 100 mins
<diddledan> aha
 * diddledan leaves that tab open
<daftykins> these are exciting times!
<diddledan> I wonder if the AMD GPU + HyperV + DRM video issue has been solved yet
<daftykins> wussat?
<diddledan> netflix wouldn't work on my old AMD card when I had Hyper-V turned-on
<diddledan> https://help.netflix.com/en/node/5026
<daftykins> how about if you run a nice virt tech ;D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> the problem is the winphone emulizer from visual studio required hyper-v
<diddledan> requires*
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> how evil of 'em
<daftykins> how ghetto is your card?
<diddledan> it's not now. I got an nvidia because I bricked the AMD with a botched firmware
<daftykins> oh yeah
<daftykins> wasn't that the time i mentioned the idea of putting it in the secondary slot, if you have a board with 2 x PEG slots, then flashing it to resurrect?
<diddledan> I could try putting it in alongside the nvidia to try reflashing
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> yeah that
<daftykins> diddledan: this might be better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icm9B1nkGJ0
<diddledan> aah yeah, that'll probably be a good stream
<daftykins> is it time yet?!
<diddledan> 15 minutes?
<daftykins> close, ja
<daftykins> just watched a Better Call Saul episode to march on the time ;D
<daftykins> it started!
<diddledan> anyone got any glue - to pass the time you watch tellybox, I slice my thumb open
<daftykins> you didn't D:
<diddledan> ackident
<diddledan> damned fan-header was exposed and my thumb was careless
<daftykins> diddledan: this accent :D
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> actually i don't want to download drivers every day ;D
<daftykins> bettin' big on VR, then
<diddledan> the report was right about the cost then
<Switches> yeah
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> wonder what the performance will be
<daftykins> fair chunk lower TFLOPS than the nvidia 1070 even
<diddledan> comes in 4GB and 8GB
<daftykins> holy moly they've made a jump there
<diddledan> 14 nanny meters
<daftykins> season for doom XD
<diddledan> we're doomed
<diddledan> wow that's purdy
<daftykins> heh gonna need a new TV to see HDR ;)
<daftykins> c'mon demoooo
<Switches> Now that's impressive..
<daftykins> shame SLI/CF suck
<Switches> Crossfire doesn't suck unless it's on Linux xD
<daftykins> i've never been a fan of dual card solutions
<daftykins> hrmm well that's probably the only bit i was fussed about
<Switches> SLi just sucks everywhere, none of the lower end cards supported it
<daftykins> guy in the red shirt is anandtech's British fella i think
<Switches> That was good to see, shame I don't have a dual slot CF board :p
<diddledan> does anyone have an ability to do mixed-vendor multicard?
<daftykins> yep
<Switches> DX12
<Switches> Vulkan
<daftykins> best combo is one AMD and one nvidia supposedly
<daftykins> there are benchmarks out there
<Switches> AMD gets a bonus for not needed a bloody huge bridge between the cards xD
<daftykins> you don't know yet...
<Switches> They won't and haven't for the last 2 or 3 generations, they even have Dual Graphics for a Discrete/APU
<Switches> And that was meant to be Discrete+APU >.< it's to late
<Switches> I want to see if they managed to cram R7>9 performance into an APU yet
<daftykins> hehe
<Switches> They are doing the FX!! yes!
<Switches> There has been talk around that they weren't doing the FX and only doing the APU
<daftykins> yay demos
<Switches> hmm wait a sec they added graphics to the FX series.. I hope not..
<daftykins> sounds like FX here is just a top tier of APU
<Switches> Maybe
<Switches> Yeah look FX 9800 APU
<daftykins> hah that vid told nothing
<daftykins> (of the game)
<diddledan> hah, had to be the bunny
<daftykins> ;]
<Switches> Hmm quad core
<Switches> Oh ffs.. really AMD >.<
<diddledan> we want MOAR CORES
<daftykins> tee-hee
<daftykins> MS in the place
<Switches> We want new cores not bloody Excavator >.<
<daftykins> everyone has a small shrubbery on them
<diddledan> yeah I was wondering about those shrubs, too
<Switches> 300 million devices, 297 million forced to upgrade :p
<diddledan> I need to flog myself. I like win10
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Na Win 10 aint so bad
<daftykins> 'tis nice, even though it's setting the tinfoilers off
<Switches> MS always sets them off
<diddledan> "hi, erm, I'm Dan, and I'm.. *chokes up*.. a windows user"
<Switches> pmsl
<daftykins> that's 'cause it's only cool to report on them as being evil
<daftykins> clickbait++
<Switches> Yep
<diddledan> I wonder if the FX will fit AM3+ sockets or if a new board is required
<Switches> well they said its AM4
<diddledan> grr
<Switches> All the new chips are AM4
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> sucky
<daftykins> i lost track of all the sockets everyone has now
<diddledan> probably new south bridge too, which is a good thing
<diddledan> the SB950 is ancient now
<Switches> Well it is and it aint tbh, AM3+ can't handle DDR4 and that's where a lot of trouble has come from I think
<daftykins> yes mate, you're totally a gamer
<diddledan> he just watches the demo mode
<daftykins> secretly he's a penguin
<daftykins> t.. that's a box?
<Switches> HP now..
<diddledan> it's got a stripe!
<daftykins> woo \o/
<Switches> Speed Stripe!
<diddledan> that's hooge
<daftykins> i kinda wanted that to snap
<Switches> I want her to drop it..
<daftykins> :P
<Switches> SNAP!
<daftykins> i don't even like shopping on HP's website let alone can i imagine buying one
<daftykins> oh please that's just intel's login tech
<Switches> Freesync laptop..
<daftykins> it's a small audience
<diddledan> and another shrubbery
<daftykins> looking generic as
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> "Saving the best for last" Dell digging at HP :p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and MS
<Switches> Yeah
<Switches> Hmm R7 445
<daftykins> so no Zen o0
<daftykins> ooh they're doing an Apple 'one more thing'
<Switches> Hmm doesn't look like it..
<daftykins> there it is!
<Switches> I knew that was coming with Intel saying they aren't focusing on PCs
<daftykins> ermagerd
<Switches> here it is
<daftykins> it's... a big splodge
<diddledan> oooh, it's a circle
<Switches> ohhh
<daftykins> dat AM4
<diddledan> 16threads
<Switches> Summit ridge
<daftykins> hmm Q3
<diddledan> xmas
<daftykins> that'd be financial Q3 no?
<daftykins> hmm so no info for now
<Switches> $100>300 :o
<daftykins> i'm so pleased they're sorting themselves out, we need AMD to stop sucking big time
<daftykins> only 12k watched that, odd
<Switches> Well the only bad bit about that was again with the rebadged/rehashed cores for the processor lineup
<daftykins> i'm still puzzled over this "51% utilisation" of the 2 x RX 480s when compared to that 1080
<mappps> hi;]
<Switches> Ashes of the Singularity supports async compute afaik
<Switches> That would explain the difference, Nvidia basically ignore it
<Switches> heya mappps
<daftykins> Switches: to me it almost sounds like they could've taken one card out and run the other full tilt ;D
<mappps> ;]
<daftykins> mappps: my uncle visited Gib and couldn't get his google mails! how weird
<mappps> hmm really
<mappps> how long was he here for.and that is odd thouh
<mappps> i use gmail
<daftykins> just the weekend, well i've got him set up on gapps
<daftykins> he reckoned he was on wifi too
<mappps> hm oodd
<mappps> what did hendo whilst here
<daftykins> not a clue
<daftykins> first i heard was him saying he couldn't get his email, then said it was fine once back here o0
<daftykins> he wa pretty vague really
<mappps> hehe
<daftykins> it was one of those classic support queries where it's like "can you throw the switch that makes it all work in Gibraltar please?"
<mappps> lol
<mappps> could just have been shoddy wifi
<daftykins> mmm, mayhaps
<mappps> plenty of places with crap wifi
<mappps> sometimes work doesnt load on some places iwifi
<daftykins> ah well, oddly he doesn't seem fussed to chase it much - probably gave himself a proper holiday for once ;) bit of a workaholic type
<mappps> where is he from
<daftykins> here
<mappps> aha
<daftykins> reetyo, AMD event is over so time for bed!
<Switches> night mate
<daftykins> ta-ra folks \o
<mappps> night mate
<mappps> late no hm
<mappps> now
<mappps> still up Switches ?
<Switches> Yeah mate, just having a ciggy and reading up on a few second hand parts I'm after for my system
<mappps> what system
<mappps> bit late isnt it;)
<Switches> Well depends on what you call late, I don't normally go to be until about 9am or so :p
<mappps> oh
<mappps> what time do you get up
<Switches> Normally in the afternoon, I get around 6>8 hours sleep a day
<mappps> i work nights but try to sleep from 7/8am
<Switches> To many years doing graveyard shifts
<mappps> i like nights, always been a night person
<Switches> Same here, but it's kinda made it hard to get a somewhat normal sleeping pattern :p
<mappps> hahah yea7
<mappps> for me..working nights is ess stress, less people, more relaxed
<mappps> much prefer it
<mappps> even when i didnt work nights id be uptill 2/3am
<Switches> Yep, you can get to chill out
<mappps> ja all the busy bodies and managers gone home
<mappps> noone bugging you
<mappps> watching what everyones upto
<Switches> :D yep, people watching is fun sometimes
<mappps> not when people watch your screens
<mappps> at night its like do your job..go home..end of heh
<mappps> no busy bodies checking every little thing
<Switches> That's always a good thing
<mappps> :D
<Switches> I aint really the social type anyways, I'd rather try and have a convo with a wall than talk to people :p
<mappps> heh7
<mappps> off to sleeep tv on ill fall asleep to it
<Switches> :) ok mate, sleep well
<mappps> once i get curtains in the longe i might start watching tv there..then can just fal asleep
<mappps> but atm only got nets and its sunny here a lot
<Switches> :( getting rather light here aswell
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> g'day
<foobarry> bonjour
<SuperMatt> OhayÅgozaimasu
<diplo> Bonjour mon ami's ( not sure on plural :D )
<foobarry> mes amis
<davmor2> Morning all you hippies
<diplo> I did know that, I do suck at typing french :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> :)
<TwistedLucidity> Morning
<TwistedLucidity> Silly question - can [K]Ubuntu use WiFi across 40Mhz or is it limited to 20Mhz?
<TwistedLucidity> Because I have an Intel wireless NIC that only appears to be using one channel, and that could well explain my dreadful WiFi performance.
<popey> driver thing innit?
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But I've never had to deal with such and issue and am pretty lost.
<TwistedLucidity> The NIC should be able to do 300Mbps (i.e. multi-channel) but I'm not sure what to fiddle or where.
<TwistedLucidity> I could, of course, be entirely wrong about everything. I often am.
<zmoylan-pi> you could be wrong about been wrong... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> That has also happened....
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't really give you much of a chance does it... :-)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: you can check the current link with "iw wlan0 link"
<MartijnVdS> it shows tx bitrate
<MartijnVdS> and MCS in use
<MartijnVdS> use http://mcsindex.com/ to determine what it's doing
<MartijnVdS> mine shows:
<MartijnVdS> 	tx bitrate: 117.0 MBit/s MCS 14
<TwistedLucidity> I've been using "iperf" and it's report ~35Mpbs on a supposed 300Mbps link. The router itself show 130Mbps 20Mhz, something dropping to 65Mbps
<MartijnVdS> which, by looking at that table, means 2 spatial streams, 64-QAM 3/4, 117mbit
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: 802.11n "300 mbit link" will never give you actual 300 mbit/s
<TwistedLucidity> Thanks MartijnVdS, I shall try that at lunch.
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, i know 300Mbps is (basically) false advertising, but only getting 35Mbps is fairly ridiculous
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's a bit low
<popey> 	tx bitrate: 65.0 MBit/s MCS 7
<popey> :(
<MartijnVdS> On 2.4GHz, you're not going to get 40MHz channels though
<popey> oh
 * popey switches to 5g
<MartijnVdS> because once a second AP is detected, the standard dictates that it should only use 20MHz channels
<TwistedLucidity> This is on 5Mhz and I'm sure I saw a dual channel setting on 2.4
 * TwistedLucidity goes to check
<popey> 	tx bitrate: 130.0 MBit/s MCS 15
<MartijnVdS> and 2.4 supports dual channel.. it's just that you'll have to disconnect all of your neighbours first ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, there's one fool running on channel 5 and when I find them......
<MartijnVdS> 1,6,11 are "recommended" channels, as they don't overlap. 5 kills a lot of channels at once ...
<TwistedLucidity> So, if I understand you, as soon as my router sees any other 2.4Ghz singal, it restricts itself to 20Mhz to be a nice neighbour? Even though I've told it to use 40Mhz?
 * popey hugs 13
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Doesn't 13 overlap with 11?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: As soon as it detects another AP overlappign the 40MHz bit you're using
<MartijnVdS> so if you're using 1+6, an AP on 11 somehwere else is fine
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Gotcha, that makes total sense.
<MartijnVdS> 13 and 11 overlap
<MartijnVdS> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#/media/File:2.4_GHz_Wi-Fi_channels_(802.11b,g_WLAN).svg
<popey> better than having lots on 11
<TwistedLucidity> Aww crikey...some cretin is on 10 as well
<MartijnVdS> popey: wifi tends to handle interference on the same channel better than on "half overlapping" ones
<TwistedLucidity> Yup
<popey> hm
<TwistedLucidity> If I can identify my errant neighbours, I wonder how I go about persuading them to switch to a sensible channel....
<popey> oh, now i check, I'm on 11 anyway
<popey> seems i must have reverted back when i re-flashed openwrt
<TwistedLucidity> OpenWRT FTW!
<popey> ya
<popey> oh, while we are talking about wifi
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I have one of these at home: http://routerboard.com/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT -- very shiny :)
<popey> i need to setup another access point in my house, which should be a) cheap and b) easy to lock down to block basically everything bar very innocuous sites
<popey> so using something like opendns for dns on it
<popey> which overrides my own lan dns
<popey> i was thinking a tp-link one running openwrt
<MartijnVdS> That's possible, but TP-Link had some issues I think? With free firmware being blocked/
<popey> it's for half a dozen or so phones to connect to, and be separate from my home network
<popey> yeah
<popey> i dont mind other manufacturers
<MartijnVdS> You can also add a second SSID to the current AP I think
<popey> just want something i know i can control well with openwrt
<popey> i absolutely do not want to use my current routers
<TwistedLucidity> Why not just create a new network on the current router? You can assign different DNS as well
<popey> no, not doing that
<popey> needs to be separate
<TwistedLucidity> You can totally isolate it
<popey> can we look at the requirements?
<popey> I very specifically do not want to do that
<MartijnVdS> I haven't done OpenWRT stuff for a while.. so I don't know which devices work well these days
<popey> yeah, mine are olde
<popey> WNDR3700v2
<popey> could pick another one up on fleabay I guess :)
<TwistedLucidity> I don't understand why (guess I don't need to) but yeah, a wee TP-Link jobby should cut it (so long as they permit customer firmware, companies are locking down)
<MartijnVdS> I've been using Mikrotik hardware (and their own Linux-based software) lately, and it's great to work with
<MartijnVdS> but that breaks the "openwrt" requirement
<TwistedLucidity> Oddly enough, I was going to suggest that.
<popey> TwistedLucidity: i need to be able to pick it all up and move it, i can't pick up my own router and move it without losing my own internet
<TwistedLucidity> The CLI is nice, GUI tool needs WINE though.
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Bingo, you never said that!
<popey> i didnt have to
<TwistedLucidity> Makes sense now
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: the web based GUI works fine cross-platform
<popey> ooh
<popey> wndr3700 is 20 quid on fleabay
<popey> that might be the least worst option
<MartijnVdS> nice & cheeep
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, last ones I used had no web, just CLI or some Windows thingy-ma-job
<popey> as I know i can make those work
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Say Something Nice Day! ð  â¤
<popey> wow, tons of them on there
<popey> hel-lo, what's this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7dBi-Antenna-Mod-Kit-for-Netgear-WNDR3700-v-2-N600-WNDR3400-WNDR3300-v-2-/140829834472?hash=item20ca1cbce8:g:BysAAMXQhuVRMU36
<popey> will that give better range to my current access points?
<popey> or is it snake oil?
<TwistedLucidity> Some routers have removable antennas and using higher spec ones is totally a thing. Whether or not *those ones* are snake oil, I can't say
<TwistedLucidity> This is exactly what I'm using: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buffalo-AirStation-Nfiniti-300-Mbps-Gigabit-Wireless-N-Router-WZR-HP-G300NH2-/131833391885?hash=item1eb1e1eb0d:g:FWMAAOSw0gdXTaDn
<TwistedLucidity> And no it's not, wrong blasted link
<TwistedLucidity> It's a WZR-HP-AG300H, can't see any for sale at a sensible price on fleabay
<ne2k> I would like to try desktop virtualization, i.e. a beefy server running VMs and/or containers with desktops for multiple users connecting using thin clients (possibly raspberry pis) I normally use Promox as the KVM/VZ host so would like to continue doing so. for Windows guests the obvious choice is RDP, but for a Linux desktop running in a VM, what would be the best remote viewer solution for this? vnc4server X server? spice into prox
<ne2k> mox using the virtual display? something else?
<popey> ne2k: x2go seems popular and performant
<TwistedLucidity> Can Linux use the latest version of RDP (which I think is 6)? I seem to recall we were limited to version 5 or something.
<ne2k> popey, do you run an X server as well as the X2Go server? would it be a headless one?
<popey> i have never run it
<popey> but i hear others talk about it a lot
<ne2k> Linux Terminal Server Project sounds like it's the sort of thing I want, but it seems rather stagnant as a project
<TwistedLucidity> NoMachine?
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, ooh, NoMachine Terminal Server, that looks good
<ne2k> can the client run on a RPi?
<ne2k> hmm, they want lots of money for it
<TwistedLucidity> There's a free version
<MooDoo> anyone played with cloudready ?
<ne2k> freenx
<foobarry> MooDoo: yes
<foobarry> didn't find it as lightweight as a light linux OS
<ne2k> I'm looking at the Cloudready web page. I've read all the text on the page and I still have absolutely no idea what it actually /is/
<foobarry> chromebookify your non chromebook laptop
<davmor2> diplo: apparently it's okay, the French are on strike so nobody noticed
<ne2k> it seems freenx /is/ nomachine
<foobarry> i've tried all the remote desktops
<foobarry> x2go is fast, x11rdp lets you use terminal services client (handy for when remote users aren't people under your control)
<foobarry> spice desktop is potentially interesting for desktop virtualisation
<foobarry> vmware horizon is the corporate solution for windows VM desktops
<ne2k> foobarry, is there a headless x server that supports rdp (like vnc4server for vnc), rather than x11rdp which I presume connects to an existing "headful" x server?
<ne2k> there's xrdp, but the documentation is SO BAD I can't work out what it is
<foobarry> x2go will allow a new session or mirror of your existing one
<ne2k> foobarry, does the client work on arm?
<foobarry> the main issue i had with x2go is keyboard mappings for mac clients
<foobarry> ARM architecture: for Debian squeeze and wheezy on ARM-based (Debian/armel) devices we provide client-side packages (x2goclient, pyhoca-gui, pyhoca-cli plus dependencies)
<foobarry> prbably yes
<davmor2> JamesTait: got covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQHJuSZTjkE
<ne2k> so I dare say you could run x2goserver in a container on Proxmox
<ne2k> I'm wondering if it's possible to have a two-monitor-wide virtual desktop running in a VM with two single-monitor thin clients connected to each half of it. RPi has only one output, but is cheap so could have one per monitor
<ne2k> popey, from what I've seen so far, x2go looks perfect
<foobarry> x2go also allows detached apps to run
<foobarry> e.g. just display a terminal window from the remote server on your display
<foobarry> then run gedit, and it appears too seamlessly
<ne2k> foobarry, cool. I'm going for desktop virtualization with a thin client so not for my use case, but interesting nonetheless
<ne2k> I love the fact that x2goclient supports RDP as well as its own protocol, which means you can run it on a thin client and people can connect to linux or windows machines without havni to have two viewers on the thin client
<popey> ne2k: yay
<ne2k> do you think I'd be best to have a single VM with lots of people connecting to it and running their desktops, or separate containers or VMs for each user?
<ne2k> if I'm going to set up a single VM to be a host for lots of users to connect to, should I install the desktop iso, or the server one and add stuff to it?
<ne2k> I'm erring on the side of the desktop one, as it will have more of teh stuff suited to desktops. but I would want to disable the local x server and greeter, as they're not needed
<foobarry> yes do desktop
<ne2k> foobarry, trying out the new 16.04 desktop in a VM
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k - how many cores does your host have, how many you assigning to the VM?
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I'm only testing at the moment, so I've assigned four cores in Proxmox. the host has what is seen as twelve, but it's actually six cores, twelve threads, afaik
<TwistedLucidity> Cool, you can assign as many as you like; but always leave one for the host
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, there's other VMs on this host atm so I didn't want to go overkill
<TwistedLucidity> As to one desktop vs multi-VMS; all depends on exactly what they'll be doing
<TwistedLucidity> Hrm...how hard is it to do multi-seat on a GNU/Linux desktop? (I've never actually tried, hence my question)
<ne2k> what's the proper ubuntuish way to disable X at startup?
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I've read the ubuntu article and it sounds rather involved, but not head-bangingly so, I don't think so
<ne2k> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="text" plus sudo systemctl enable multi-user.target --force; sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target  ?
<TwistedLucidity> That's the great thing about a VM, you can take a snapshot just before you royally mess everything up! :-)
<ne2k> lol
<ne2k> hmmm. setting GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="text" alone doesn't work
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi you know abou touch OTA 11 :D ?
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: I do
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, what are the libertine changes?
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: how do you mean?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, is it easier to install own apps into libertine?  or still got to hack purtine for example?
<davmor2> I've not tried I didn't land the last libertine, but my understanding is that the code to install apps is in place but you need a scope from the store which will land for ota11 so no idea if it is there or not right now, I think it is just called legacy apps scope or something like that
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: no idea how hard or easy it is once you have those though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, yeah a scope,  I reemmber they were saying about something before.  not sure if that's avaialble from the standard store for ota 11 hmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess I should upgrade and look around
<SebthreeBQM10HD> my understanding was that the purtine hack was only a tempory thing before the updates came if wanted to install other programs
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the omgubuntu ubuntu link I just read to do with ota 11 didn't say much about libertine so
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: it's not released yet I don't think not soon though I think
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it is released according to omg ubuntu
<SebthreeBQM10HD> quite a recent blog post
<SebthreeBQM10HD> may take a day or two to show the upgrade being availalbe it seems to say as well though
<ne2k> I should have installed Ubuntu-MATE instead, as Unity doesn't play nicely with x2go
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: yeah but they say it is released when it isn't on the desktop releases too :D
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: it will be pushed today though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I Was thinking the upgrade would be on like Thursday or something :d
<ne2k> hmmm, I've installed x2goserver and x2goserver-session and x2gomatebindings and mate-desktop-session but I can't get it to work. not much in the way of helpful error messages. tryign to find a log file
<foobarry> i use lxde
<foobarry> with x2go
<ne2k> I was hoping to have something that felt like using native Ubuntu desktop. I'm a bit disappointed it doesn't work with Unity
<ne2k> but I suppose it's not that surprising
<ne2k> even MATE isn't working properly. I had to do some workaround in .profile to get it to load at all, and now all the icons are missing
<ne2k> and it won't go full screen
<ne2k> so, all-in-all, a bit shitto
<foobarry> there is a irc chan for x2go
<foobarry> the devs hang out in there
<ne2k> yeah, might head over there
<diddledan> what.. the.. duck.. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/05/msi-hp-zotac-backpack-vr-pc-details-specs-price-release-date/
<directhex> https://www.gog.com/connect - DRM-free versions of your steam games, via gog.com
<diddledan> nice
<popey> An error occurred while processing your request.
<popey> Reference #30.67f1002.1464792530.db54fe9
<popey> bleh
<diddledan> yeah I'm having trouble too
<popey> 8th time's the charm
<diddledan> I get "WE COULDN'T REACH THE STEAM SERVICE RIGHT NOW."
<MartijnVdS> and that just beforet he summer sale ;)
<popey> same
<diddledan> eenteresting: https://github.com/eliangcs/http-prompt
<directhex> progress! it now shows my accounts as linked, and says i own no games!
<diddledan> yup, ditto
<phablet>  
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<Switches> I need more coffee.. and who gave alan_g Explosive Ordanance?!
<daftykins> it could be "end of days"
<daftykins> or "eating orange duck" ?
<DJones> daftykins: "End of days".....Please don't.....I've not finished prepping for that yet
<daftykins> when the horesemen cometh?
<DJones> Yep, I still need my backpack nuke to err on the side of caution
<DJones> Sounds like every book I read
<phablet>  
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> abc
<daftykins> -_-
<SebthreeBQM10HD> :)
<daftykins> #ubuntu might be a safe bet when you're unsure if you're present or not
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hmm?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, did you get to annoyed at #ubuntu not seen you there recently :d
<daftykins> i am banned
<daftykins> wow, Teamviewer has gotten hacked so bad some people are connecting into others PCs and raiding their online accounts :|
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, you are banned from #ubuntu what why?  and what's this about team viewer ?
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/01/teamviewer_mass_breach_report/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, by the way you might be able to help me with an idea for a speech at a public speaking group since you do windows rubbish a lot it seems
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and deal with non technicals as a result I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, I want to do one about the Microsoft scam call or to do with that
<daftykins> 'rubbish' eh
<daftykins> not getting any help from me then
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, no I think  you misunderstood me
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, I meant doing stuff with Windows is a bit sucky I guess, but you get paid for it so not to bad :)
<daftykins> too late, you burnt that bridge
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, you flipped out in #ubuntu and got banned I guess
<daftykins> nope, but i'm not willing to discuss it
<daftykins> at least, not with folks i don't know
<daftykins> SebthreeBQM10HD: i don't really find your approach to be a pleasant one
<diddledan> ello
<daftykins> o/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan ello
<diddledan> my thumb hurts
<diddledan> bloomin fan-headers
<daftykins> what've you been up to? :>
<diddledan> I hurt it last night
<daftykins> your fan header?
<diddledan> my thumb was a careless idiot
<diddledan> I was surgerising my pc while waiting for the amd stream
<diddledan> and the naughty fan header jumped-up and bit my thumb
<daftykins> oof!
<diddledan> nice slice down one side
<diddledan> only about 1.5cm tho
<daftykins> 'tis but a scratch
<daftykins> i've got surface #3 now in the post, so setting it up for the client again
<diddledan> is it the same one you've been struggling with returned or have they replaced it?
<daftykins> this is genuinely #3 now
<daftykins> #2 got stood on :D
<diddledan> wow
<daftykins> they've all still got the sleep issues, totally flawed product
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-02
<m0nkey_> ok, so my PC can't run Ubuntu. It screws up the USB 3 controller, making the computer incredibly slow to boot. Disabling USB3 does nothing to help :(
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> which is this? what version were you trying?
<m0nkey_> 16.04
<m0nkey_> 14.04 did the same thing
<daftykins> what machine?
<m0nkey_> I have to reset the BIOS in order to get back to normal.. it's only Ubuntu that does it
<m0nkey_> Hang on.. let me find the board
<m0nkey_> http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97E-ITXac/index.us.asp
<daftykins> live session boot, or are you getting as far along as booting the install?
<m0nkey_> Live boot works great
<m0nkey_> Trouble starts when it's installed
<daftykins> so i take it you're installing with updates during the installer?
<m0nkey_> This is before updates
<m0nkey_> The trouble starts when lightdm starts
<daftykins> ah ok, throws out my idea of a newer kernel going on before then, then
<m0nkey_> Then I have no keyboard or mouse input for at least a minute
<m0nkey_> Then the USB 3 controller finally springs into life and it works
<daftykins> surely your input devices aren't in USB 3.0 ports?
<m0nkey_> But it makes hotplugging any USB3 device a pain to use
<m0nkey_> daftykins, I have to :)
<daftykins> why? i spy two USB 2.0
<m0nkey_> USB 2.0 doesn't provide enough power for my keyboard.
<daftykins> ah you probably need a Y cable like mine uses
<m0nkey_> I got one of these fancy RGB mechanical keyboards
<daftykins> logs aren't coming up with anything google-able i take it?
<m0nkey_> Nope, nothing.
<m0nkey_> dmesg shows nothing
<m0nkey_> lightdm and xorg logs, nowt.
<daftykins> YOLD!
<daftykins> ;D
<m0nkey_> YOLD?
<daftykins> year of the Linux desktop
<m0nkey_> heh
<m0nkey_> not so
<daftykins> yeah, that's what i get at :>
<m0nkey_> I should really try another distro to see if it's just limited to Ubuntu.
<m0nkey_> Or it could be my PC is booting so damn fast, it doesn't have a chance to load everything before firing up the X session manager :D
<daftykins> could be
<Switches> Have a look at your bios number aswell seems they did a Linux GUID fix in 1.50
 * daftykins would've hoped that was a given
<m0nkey_> I have the latest bios
<Switches> 1.80
<m0nkey_> Yup
<m0nkey_> I guess there will be no official support. OS only shows Win7 and up.
<m0nkey_> I'm slightly disappointed.
<daftykins> what do you mean there? nothing really has official Linux support does it o0
<daftykins> well, of the enthusiast self build parts sorta world
<Switches> Not "official" as such but it is normally in the support list
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you tried a newer mainline kernel?
<daftykins> for funsies
<m0nkey_> nope
<m0nkey_> only whatever it installs or updates to
<daftykins> chop chop then!
<Switches> 4.4
<diddledan> there's a ppa for that
<daftykins> !mainline
<lubotu3> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<daftykins> or just debs
<m0nkey_> I'll take a look another day. I don't have the energy to look at it now.
<daftykins> :( one install and boot!
 * diddledan kicks daftykins
<diddledan> was that the right boot?
<Switches> Shoulda been the left one
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> damn
<daftykins> oof
<Switches> Don't know if this is gonna be anything to do with it, but seems there's a bug around on launchpad that dates back 3 years to do with USB3 and not recognising devices, I wonder if that's related to m0nkey_  problems due to his keyboard needing the USB3
<Switches> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1242321
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1242321 in linux (Ubuntu) "USB 3.0 Harddrive not recognised" [Medium,Confirmed]
<m0nkey_> You got a bug number?
<Switches> It says HD, but the way the guy explains it its basically everything
<m0nkey_> huh
<m0nkey_> Yes, some of them messages look familiar. The device not responding messages
<Switches> That was gonna be my next question was to have a look for the xhci errors
<m0nkey_> Well, I narrowed it down to the USB3 controller. And I remember seeing something along the lines of: usb 3-4: Device not responding to set address.
<diddledan> off-the-wall question, is VT-d turned-on?
<m0nkey_> I already tried disabling USB3, but that just stops me from using my keyboard :)
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I tried that.
<diddledan> kk
<m0nkey_> Happens regardless if on or off.
<diddledan> on a board I had ages ago I had issues with the AMD IOMMU blocking my USB devices in ubuntu but turning it off fixed everything up
<diddledan> I forget what AMD call theirs, but it's the same as Intel's VT-d thingy
<diddledan> I wonder if your USB host is being killed by borderline undervoltage which is manifesting under linux but not windows
<daftykins> u wot
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> i.e. your keyboard is too hungry :-p
<m0nkey_> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<daftykins> GO LINUX
<m0nkey_> But why would it be fine in say, clonezilla?
<diddledan> â»ââ»ï¸µ  \(Â°â¡Â°)/ ï¸µ â»ââ»
<m0nkey_> I backed up my drive using that, which uses the Ubuntu kernel.
<diddledan> hmm
<m0nkey_> That exhibited no such issue
<daftykins> aren't there debian images too?
<diddledan> you've got a ghost?
<m0nkey_> Problem seems to only manifest when lightdm launches
<Switches> Bah still no ubuntu usb keys on the canonical shop! :/
<m0nkey_> ok, just created a new command for myself
<m0nkey_> nope. didn't work
<diddledan> are they for electronic door-locks?
<diddledan> usb keys for electronic locks
<Switches> lol
<m0nkey_> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<m0nkey_> yey
<m0nkey_> that works
<daftykins> what did?
<m0nkey_> the /shrug command :)
<m0nkey_> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<daftykins> oh :P
<m0nkey_> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<m0nkey_> that works too :D
<diddledan> â»ââ»ï¸µ  \(Â°â¡Â°)/ ï¸µ â»ââ»
<diddledan> ctrl+v
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I'm going to call that a double flip with pirouette
<m0nkey_> â¬âââ¬ Â¯\_(ã)
<m0nkey_> I put it back for you
<daftykins> XD
<m0nkey_> à² _à² 
<daftykins> antennas on your eyes
<m0nkey_> for some reason, unicode seems to be broken on hexchat for windows
<diddledan> awesoem
<m0nkey_> server settings are set to UTF-8
<m0nkey_> maybe Consolas font doesn't do it
<diddledan> so someone has stolen Gabe Aul's big red button! https://twitter.com/vt_norton/status/738084635356344321
<daftykins> hmm i never did get around to snagging that wallpaper
<diddledan> he's leaving the post of "Insider Wrangler" in favour of being in charge of build-engineering
<daftykins> it's hilarious XD
<daftykins> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/07/21/a-fun-surprise-for-windows-insiders/
<daftykins> aww yis
<daftykins> ugh they're low res
<diddledan> 3840x2160 low?
<daftykins> oh my fault, didn't scroll down - i went by the embedded images
<daftykins> surface resurfacing is complete
<diddledan> if you were the council the thing would be left potholey for months and then just patched rather than properly resurfaces
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> useful plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/i-dont-care-about-cookies/
<m0nkey_> ugh that crap is annoying
<m0nkey_> thank you
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that privacy fella said that the way everyone implements that isn't actually correct according to the law o0
<ball> Whose law?
<diddledan> the letter of the law requires that no cookies be set unless the user explicitly says yes. saying no should NOT save a cookie to remember that you said no
<m0nkey_> k, im out
<m0nkey_> g'night all
<ball> Is that a UK or EU law?
<diddledan> ball: yes
<daftykins> lol
<ball> Hmm... ok
<ball> I had noticed that British web sites pop up a banner saying "Hey, we use cookies!"
<ball> ...thought perhaps it was down to some legislation
<daftykins> i regularly cache-clear too, so i get used to all this jazz
<daftykins> the #1 culprit for annoyance though, is the youtube autoplay function
<ball> daftykins: At least you can turn that off. LinkedIn doesn't give you the option afaict.
<ball> I spent a big chunk of today on LinkedIn.
<ball> ...so I notice these things. ;-)
<daftykins> sounds evil!
<ball> ...and again this evening.
<ball> I should probably start rationing my time there.
<daftykins> >:)
<mappps> hi
<daftykins> mornin'
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> good day \o
<diplo> Do you never sleep!?!?! :P
<diplo> I thought I was bad
<daftykins> >:)
<daftykins> i sleep when you're all at work
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> pip pip
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> morning everyone
<daftykins> ooh diplo beat you to the morning greeting routine today, knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> morning peeps
<SuperMatt> all right?
<foobarry> whats the best screen recorder atm? kazam? screenstudio?
<cleder> I'm happy with kazam - not sure if it's the best
<foobarry> think i'll try kazam again
<foobarry> screenstudio seems better for tutorials and talk alongs with webcam
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Leave the Office Earlier Day! ð
<daftykins> ooh that sounds like a fine type of day
<JamesTait> Especially when it's also Pi Zero Delivery Day. ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> has gnome-terminal on xenial changed?
<directhex> something feels off today
<foobarry> JamesTait: aren't they out of stock?
<foobarry> or did you buy a bundle?
<JamesTait> foobarry, they may well be now, I got online at 08:15 yesterday morning and managed to grab one.
<foobarry> who from ?
<JamesTait> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero
<foobarry> thanks. postage?
<JamesTait> Pi Zero only is out of stock, Pi Zero + Adapters is still available.
<TwistedLucidity> Soooo tempted to get one, but I have no idea what to do with it.
<JamesTait> Â£2.50 P+P I think, let me check.
<daftykins> ;]
<TwistedLucidity> So it would sit and gather dust. That and a Pocket CHIP too....
<popey> 7.50 + 2.50 shipping + 1.50 taxes = 11.50
<JamesTait> Yep, Â£2.50.
<JamesTait> I already have a project in mind.
<JamesTait> A driver's-eye-view cam for my son's model trains.
<SuperMatt> oh that's very sweet
<popey> heh
 * daftykins sends JamesTait an old smartphone and some tape
<JamesTait> daftykins, we have tried that, with mixed results.  There was some minor damage to one of the layouts when the phone wasn't properly secured.
<foobarry> TAXES?!
<daftykins> doh!
<daftykins> yeah what tax? ;)
<foobarry> next you'll tell me i need a case
 * daftykins takes the tape off JamesTait and hands it to foobarry 
<daftykins> nice, Â£14 iPad Mini digitizer has fixed up a friends device
<foobarry> didn't realise keepassx has been rewritten from scratch
<foobarry> i'm still on 0.4.2
<foobarry> what happens if i remove flash?
<foobarry> do websites generally replace it with alternatives?
<foobarry> (i'm using firefox)
<davmor2> foobarry: some do most don't
<foobarry> maybe i'll just upgrade the package and continue for a bit
 * knightwise hasnt used flash in years
<brobostigon> same here, i havent had flash installed for several years now,
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> any issues? missing bits from websites?
<popey> amusingly, in firefox, removing flash would cause my ff to explode when adverts appeared
<foobarry> literally
<popey> the ad provider detected no flash, so gave me h264 video adverts instead
<popey> the ff plugin which plays h264 would explode and take the browser with it
<popey> yet more good reasons for ad blockers
<foobarry> i turned off adblock while getting a meerkat and forgot for a few minutes
<foobarry> next website was gizmodo which had an autoplaying video. hideous
<zmoylan-pi> i installed a new browser a few days ago and the sheer amount of ads till i remembered to install adblocker was insane
<foobarry> video with sound.
<popey> diddledan: directhex gog.com/connect works now, shows 7 games for me
<popey> wonder why it says "5 days" under each one
<popey> ahh, time left to redeem
<foobarry> whats the point?
<foobarry> in case steam went down?
<popey> drm free copies of games
<diddledan> download and keep rather than rely on service
<popey> install on machines without having to add steam
<foobarry> oh ok, i think i bought those on humblebundle anyway
<foobarry> next step they launch a steamlike client
<popey> they have one
<foobarry> i don't play games other than skyrim anymore
<popey> gog galaxy
<popey> i mostly play rust at the moment
<foobarry> they missed chance to call it gog ogadget
<popey> hah
<foobarry> i seem to have extra games. must be free ones
<foobarry> teenagent , beneath steel sky
<diddledan> yeah they're freebies
<foobarry> and il2 sturmovik
<foobarry> that i bought and struggled will
<foobarry> with
<diddledan> tickety boo. /me listening to ubuntu podcast. popey you're fun!
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJHzpaxMOQ
<Myrtti> mental note: Lucozade Sport in Raspberry is vile
<marshmn> hi all; where is the correct place to set environment variables so that they are picked up by desktop apps?
<marshmn> I've tried exporting a variable in ~/.zshrc and that works fine in a terminal - but it doesn't seem to take effect in a desktop app (as far as I can tell anyway)
<diddledan> marshmn: .profile
<marshmn> diddledan: OK, thanks - will give that a try
<diddledan> maybe .bash_profile
<diddledan> one of those two
<marshmn> diddledan: thanks - setting it in .profile seems to have done the trick
<user2635> Anyone else find the Ubuntu Software store slow? It just stays on the loading screen, so I can't see how my program updates are going...
<Bram__> hi, first I'm sorry for my bad English
<Bram__> so i try to make a IPC with a named pipe but doesn't work fine
<Bram__> I tested it with one named pipe and that works verry fine but I need more then one pipe
<Bram__> I make a fol loop for this but the os bloks because there are many filles open because I doesn't close the file so I know what the problem is but I can't find a solution
<Bram__> I have try to close the file with 'close(fd)' but the named pipe do some verry strange things
<Bram__> I use the named pipes to communicate between a Python source file and a C source file
<Bram__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16931678/
<Bram__> What I doing wrong?
<popey> asking in the wrong irc channel for one :)
<Switches> Think you're asking in the wrong place Bram__
<Bram__> What is a better place to ask this question?
<Switches> maybe #python channel?
<Bram__> ok thank you for the support!
<Switches> No worries
<marshmn> OK, so here's something I'd like to do: I want to launch screen, run a command inside it and detach - leaving it running so that I can re-attach to it if I wish later
<Bram__> I'm make a account on the #python channel but I not able to login
<diddledan> huh?
<diddledan> just type /join #python
<Bram__> then I received this message: "Cannot send to channel: #python-unregistered"
<karmelle> I can't seem to send to some channels such as #freenode
<diddledan> Bram__: you need to register to nickserv
<diddledan> for instructions on doing that type /msg nickserv help register
<Bram__> I do this /msg NickServ REGISTER password youremail@example.com
<Bram__> and I have verified my e-mail address
<karmelle> Oh it's ok I forgot to verify. It's a long time since I've IRC'd
<Bram__> it works wrong nickname :p
<m0nkey_> booh... Ubuntu 16.04 installer doesn't do ZFS.. BOOOO!
<diddledan> daftykins: new build being pushed: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/738498668790042624
<directhex> m0nkey_: it can't, legally. canonical might push it into a future release anyway
<diddledan> o_O
<m0nkey_> legally speaking, canonical shouldn't be putting a lot of stuff in ubuntu.. like mp3 playback, etc.. :)
<diddledan> I don't get how having zfs supported by the installer is any more or less risky than having it available once installed
<directhex> diddledan: the GPL applies at time of distribution. you can't violate the kernel if you distribute source code, and a script to compile it, and say "hey guys, this is your problem not ours"
<directhex> whereas you can for distributing a GPL-incompatible .ko file
<diddledan> they can compile it when you request to use it for installation though
<directhex> it's "kernel maintainers sending a cease & desist to your ISP to have your ISOs taken down" bad
<directhex> diddledan: mmmmm, yes, using dkms in the installer would probably work, if it had the scaffolding in place to do it
<directhex> so that's probably workaroundable. cloud images are another matter
<diddledan> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OwnCloud-Forked-To-NextCloud
<Switches> Yeah saw that earlier, seems to be all the guys that left owncloud
<diddledan> there's a followup at https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OwnCloud-Responds-To-Nextcloud
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-03
<diddledan> and a 45 minute video with brian lunduke and a couple nextcloud guys https://youtu.be/iMfokaX2r8g
<Switches> That's not good
<m0nkey_> So, this is the end of ownCloud?
<diddledan> yup, seems so
<Switches> Maybe that's what the guys who left saw coming
<m0nkey_> Thank **** for that.
<m0nkey_> ownCloud is both brilliant and terrible.
<Switches_> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<Switches> Morning
<knightwise> Good morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> morning moodoo
<knightwise> TGIF !
<MooDoo> yeah :)
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> happy last day in this job day
<MooDoo> bet you're looking forward to it aren't you :)
<SuperMatt> oh yes
<foobarry> owncloud in trouble. much weirdness
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: owncloud inc. has closed, nextcould is coming
<TwistedLucidity> *nextcloud
<TwistedLucidity> Interesting that the split appears to have happened (or so they claim) due to a lack of community involvement.
<SuperMatt> not quite
<SuperMatt> the owncloud inc board didn't want to have more than 2 community members
<SuperMatt> considering it was a community project, the original devs decided to leave
<SuperMatt> https://plus.google.com/events/cnntcg90ehkd9j6gdglumj1g708
<SuperMatt> that video will have more information
<MooDoo> just about to say did you watch the q&a with brian lunduke :)
<popey> morning slackers
<SuperMatt> I'm watching it now
<zmoylan-pi> i cannot abide links to videos for information when a short 1 page summary would do the trick... #petpeeves
<popey> i think they just haven't written down what was on the video
<popey> they have written down other things
 * zmoylan-pi wanders off for first caffine to dampen down the crankiness... :-P
 * popey throws a bucket of coffeee over zmoylan-pi 
 * zmoylan-pi has kettle on for proper tea...
<knightwise> * yawns *
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: That's what I mean, only 2 board members. (I probably could havd phrased it better)
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I think there is a sumamry, 2 ticks....
<SuperMatt> ah, I see
<SuperMatt> listening to the guys talk about it, they also got fed up of it working like a monolithic company, where a small group was deciding the direction in private
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Macaroon Day! ð
<SuperMatt> I hear it's also national doughnut day
<JamesTait> And Fish & Chips Day.
<zmoylan-pi> bugger, i forgot to get macaroon bars for macaroon day... http://www.irishgoodyz.com/chocolate/16-wilton-macaroon-hampers-irish-products-for-shipping-abroad-irish-hampers-irish-goodies-irish-treats-.html
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Sorry, can't find it now
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: So....just like the Linux Foundation then? :-P
<SuperMatt> I say nothing
<TwistedLucidity> :-D
<brobosti1on> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<zmoylan-pi> and today is chocolate macaroon day \o/ http://www.nationaldaycalendar.com/days-2/national-chocolate-macaroon-day-june-3/
<zmoylan-pi> whoops wrong channel :-P
<davmor2> \o/ I can haz interwebz at my moms now too \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> yay davmor2
<DJones> popey: Have you seen this http://flatpak.org/ Wondering if its a similar idea to the snap packages & installer system
<popey> I have, yes.
<popey> It's similar, yes.
<DJones> ok, just saw it mentioned on omgubuntu's twitter account
 * DJones checks the date and realises that its friday
 * zmoylan-pi breaks the glass and hands out the emergency crunchies
<SuperMatt> it's pint time
<zmoylan-pi> breaking the glass there doesn't help
<DJones> I'll walk past the pub then, not had to buy a pint glass for 10 years because of the ones discarded outside & on the footpaths
<Switches> lol
<DJones> Must have a dozen of the 'special edition' carling/becks etc tall pilsner pint glasses
<Switches> hehe
<Switches> I got cans downstairs so I'm sorted
<TwistedLucidity> I have Picon on the shelf. Just the thing to add to Pilsner (or other light lager of choice)
<DJones> Grr, idiot kids on off road bikes, time to get my walking stick out to shove through the front wheel
<TwistedLucidity> Legal or illegal bikes?
<DJones> That'll teach them to ride 2 or 3 up with no helmets on the pavement
<TwistedLucidity> Ah
<TwistedLucidity> Answers that question then
<DJones> Bikes are legal, riders are irresponsible and illegal
<TwistedLucidity> I suggest you inform the local constabulary. If that doesn't work, inform the local bike club; their response may be more...err...robust.
<DJones> Or maybe I'll just wait for the police helicopter to track them, so many complaints about them, the police are arranging for a net of police cars & air support so they can take them off road permanently
<DJones> We've got fields & woods nearby so they use the woods as a race track, police have been after them for weeks
<TwistedLucidity> The annoyance of it all it, is gives the rest of us a bad rep. Which is why clubs tend to get stroppy about people acting the arse. IME anyway
<DJones> I have no problem with bikes used by responsible riders, not even speeding on roads/motorways (thats the riders most at risk) but riding on pavements at walkers/dogs/wheelchairs etc isn't on
<TwistedLucidity> Bring back the stocks!
<DJones> s/stocks/hanging/
<TwistedLucidity> But then who can I throw rotten tomatoes at?
<zmoylan-pi> the hungry?
<DJones> I just have a full length mirror for that :)
<TwistedLucidity> You throw tomatoes at your reflection when you're hungry?
<zmoylan-pi> proves he's not a vampire...
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't rule out werewolf mind... :-P
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: I do spend most of the night awake...Didn't say I could see a reflection in the mirrot
<DJones> And can't stand the sun
<zmoylan-pi> yes but vampires wouldn't have a mirror...
<zmoylan-pi> and i'd put the sun aversion down to hanging out in irc over been a vampire... :-)
<DJones> Heh, that could also suggest all IRC users are vampires
<zmoylan-pi> it would explain the high prevalence of ocd behaviour... :-P
<DJones> Too hot, I feel like I need to go and sit in an ice bath
 * zmoylan-pi prepares to walk to shops an hour away to get a new fan for bedroom.  the little 6" one doesn't cut it
<zmoylan-pi> they have a nice 16" for â¬20
<DJones> Ceiling fans FTW
<daftykins> huzzah another piece of fruity tech fixed; https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e5aepwv3cbq2p0w/AAC7vLRaTVCCC5ASLCNAYw8Ra?dl=0
<Myrtti> SO needs to sort out his Nexus 5 :-|
<daftykins> i've done one, the one i use - they're quite easy
<daftykins> you can post it to me to do ^_^
<m0nkey_> What?! He's not on the latest Nexus?!
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: no, because none of the new ones have Qi and they're pants.
<m0nkey_> lol
<Myrtti> ie. not enough improvement to warrant an 'upgrade'
<m0nkey_> I'm not letting go of my Note4 either. I WANT TO CHANGE MY BATTERY! :)
<Myrtti> I want a Moto X Force
<m0nkey_> I'm due an upgrade next year I think. However, so far.. not liking many of the devices coming out. An iPhone is more appealing at this very time.
<daftykins> that's pretty much the story with all smartphones i think now :) unnecessary incremental upgrades
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you take that back! :P
<m0nkey_> It's like PCs. I still have my AMD box from 2010. Still works, runs great.
<daftykins> just now i saw the iPhone powers on from off if you plug in a charger, i'm not a fan of that at all
<daftykins> 2010 isn't so far away though, my 2007 quad core was getting long in the tooth though :)
<m0nkey_> To be honest daftykins, I don't use my smartphone the same way anymore. It's a communication device. I call, I text, I email and maybe a bit of facebook and twitter. Nothing more. As long as it can do that, I'm happy.
<m0nkey_> And my Note4 is over spec'd for what I want.
<daftykins> i'm the same minus the social notworking parts, mostly use it for a camera and email on the go, ja
<m0nkey_> I was surprised that I got the Marshmallow update however.
<m0nkey_> It's now seen three major versions of Android
<daftykins> :) i find the Samsung devices benefit from a good factory reset after a major upgrade
<daftykins> we had a note 4 for a client too, i think it found its' way into a harbour though
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: mind you, it took us an extra half a Nexus cycle to upgrade from Nexus One to Galaxy Nexus
<m0nkey_> Heh, I still have my Nexus One
<m0nkey_> It's my emergency backup phone
<brobostigon> i am trying to do-release-upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04, and do-release-upgrade is showing no new releases, and /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades  is set to lts, any ideas please?
<popey> thats working as deigned
<popey> *designed
<brobostigon> ok,
<popey> LTS updates are enabled at the point one release, so when 16.04.1 comes out
<popey> you can force the upgrade if you want before then
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes
<brobostigon> ah, that explains it then.
<brobostigon> thank you.
<Myrtti> that's how it's always been too
<popey> yeah
<brobostigon> maybe i am just really late at upgrading then.
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> from most reports though it might even take 'til .2 to iron out things for unity users ;)
<popey> dunno what that's referring to
<daftykins> a dev i know tells me it's the most buggy yet
<m0nkey_> I just wish the USB3 bug was fixed.
<daftykins> you don't know that's a bug yet, could be just you :)
<daftykins> did you give it a go with nothing plugged in?
<m0nkey_> not yet
<popey> odd, i find unity in 16.04 to be the least buggy ever
<popey> no random crashes or lockups, no wierd artifacts.
<popey> seems to work fine here
<popey> I'm sure willcooke would appreciate a bug report from your dev friend if he can
<daftykins> he tends to solve them himself
<daftykins> quite the contributor
<DJones> Unity seems to be working fine for me with nvidia-prime
<daftykins> i think he was running some kind of 2.5K screen tablet thing, so issues were scaling or window management related
<DJones> Right, the only issue I had after upgrade was something to do with graphics import, mainly seems to affect image edit packages,but had gone away now
<m0nkey_> I've just killed off TeamViewer access on my network. Not using that ever again.
<daftykins> based on that report? i've yet to understand the facts on that one
<diddledan> I need to let dad know about the teamviewer thing
<SuperMatt> what was the deal with teamviewer?
<daftykins> alleged explotable atm, folks remoting into others systems
<SuperMatt> I see
<SuperMatt> basically, if you run it, someone can log in to your machine
<daftykins> seems the majority of detail has come from the cesspool that is reddit, so i'm not sure how much can be believed thus far
<m0nkey_> Seems other sources are reporting the breach.
<m0nkey_> Anywho, TV removed and access blocked.
<diddledan> they might be reporting that someone has reported it though
<diddledan> the online media is a cesspool of copypasta
<TwistedLucidity> m0nkey_: Jitsi can do screen sharing and remote control. Works OK.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: unattended?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah no. Someone would have to fire up the client, connect and then share.
<TwistedLucidity> It's a bit like Skype, but not evil.
<TwistedLucidity> All depends on the use case (and host OS)
<m0nkey_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/01/teamviewer_mass_breach_report/
<m0nkey_> https://www.teamviewer.com/en/company/press/statement-on-potential-teamviewer-hackers/
<m0nkey_> They're claiming they don't have a breach
<daftykins> saved browser passwords and teamviewer, *facepalm*
<daftykins> people being people
<m0nkey_> I'm not using it until there is evidence either way.
<daftykins> oh i agree
<diddledan> interesting: https://ind.ie/blog/better/
<diddledan> lol: https://www.facebook.com/MicrosoftDeveloper.UK/posts/1387886497904638:0
<daftykins> :D
<popey> meh ind.ie
<zmoylan-pi> i really should go to iceland sometime, they all seem to come here for shopping
<diddledan> everyone, watch sense8! that is all.
<daftykins> that good eh?
<diddledan> I loved it
<diddledan> it's created by the Wachowskis
<diplo> diddledan: Its odd! I got to about Episode6? Haven;t watched the rest yet
<m0nkey_> Some crazy woman out front
<m0nkey_> She's been there for nearly an hour
<m0nkey_> We've had to call the police
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> is she clinically crazy or just a weirdo?
<diddledan> crazy behaviour gives us proper nutjobs a bad reputation
<daftykins> diddledan: oh yeah! Wacky brothers
<diddledan> siblings**
<diddledan> Lana is a lass
<daftykins> ah yes, the artists formerly known as brothers ;)
<diddledan> I think it's appropriate to just pluralise their surname rather than referring to their relationship or gender now
<Myrtti> sisters
<Myrtti> Lana and Lilly
<diddledan> Lilli?
<diddledan> lilly*
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wachowskis
<daftykins> what a world we live in
<daftykins> oh Sense8 has that guy that was the friendly marine type fella in Stargate Universe, possibly
<Myrtti> Lilly published her situation after the Daily Fail threatened to out her
<diddledan> oh I hadn't seen that one
<diddledan> that's mean of the DM
<daftykins> 164GB 4K, hahaha
<diddledan> I hate when things like that happen - she is allowed to keep things private yannow!
<m0nkey_> apparently she's known to the police
<m0nkey_> she was shooting up in public
<diddledan> m0nkey_: dang
<m0nkey_> police are here now
<diddledan> hopefully she can get the care she needs
<Myrtti> "He proceeded to explain he was a journalist from the Daily Mail, which was the largest news service in the UK and was most definitely not a tabloid. And that I really had to sit down with him tomorrow or the next day or next week so that I could have my picture taken and tell my story which was so inspirational! And that I really didn't want to have someone from the National Enquirer ---
<Myrtti> following me around, did I? BTWâThe Daily Mail is so definitely not a tabloid."
<popey> haha
<popey> in their eyes
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i'd wipe my backside with a real tabloid...
<m0nkey_> the police did jack
<diddledan> joy
<m0nkey_> she's still on our street and the police has left
<m0nkey_> i got video of the police arriving, so i have their car number
<m0nkey_> oh
<m0nkey_> my company has issued an advisory about TV
<m0nkey_> turns out somebody has hit in the company
<diddledan> eep
<m0nkey_> "**** staff member has contacted **** to inform us that he suspects his **** system was access by an unauthorized user, via TeamViewer."
<m0nkey_> obviously, I've blanked out stuff
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> holy moly
<daftykins> m0nkey_: are all work computers preloaded with it, then? or does that person just use it?
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the internet wonderful...
<m0nkey_> daftykins, no.. it's not part of the standard build image
<daftykins> good good
<m0nkey_> i've even gone as far as erasing it from my computers and block the TV subnet
<m0nkey_> brb.. got to reset my switch
<daftykins> lawl
<diddledan> that's what you get for fiddling with rules :-p
<zmoylan-pi> fiddlings while the internet burns...
<diddledan> doesn't that require the internet for the naughty naked pictures?
<zmoylan-pi> only if you broke your stradivarius
<diddledan> sounds painful
<zmoylan-pi> AND expensive
<diddledan> like splitting your difference. or googling yourself
<zmoylan-pi> you should never google yourself, you could learn horrible things
<diddledan> google yourself with bing and you'll never find out
<daftykins> i was quite pleasantly surprised at how much better Bing translate is than googles, the other day
<user2635> If a notification is too long in unity, how can I see the rest? (for example, blablabla ...)
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/talktalk_scammers_still_active/
<daftykins> "I'm sorry Ms. Jackson, oooooh! I am for real" ~
<daftykins> (you have to sing it)
<daftykins> i just told a mate to make sure she doesn't have teamviewer installed, she asked if it matters that the laptop is switched off *facepalm*
<user2635> I know I can do apt-get update, but is there a way in the terminal to check if there is an update for a specific package?
<daftykins> "apt-cache policy <package>" would have * beside the installed one and a list of the newer version above
<zmoylan-pi> when the new intel engine thingy comes along it might... :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: vpro already does that technically
<daftykins> well, permits unattended remote access in some instances
<user2635> daftykins, thanks
<diddledan> this is awesome version of a lionking song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1lbeYSCh7A
<diddledan> (tay zonday, the bloke behind chocolate rain)
<diddledan> has anyone seen "the tunnel"? it's a british-french version of the nordic-noir "the bridge"
 * zmoylan-pi remembers time tunnel from the 60s...  a terrible sci fi even back then
<diddledan> not quite the same thing
<diddledan> I'm just starting season 2
<marshmn> diddledan: I've not seen the tunnel, though I have heard of it
<marshmn> diddledan: I really like the bridge though
<marshmn> <3 nordic-noir
<lopta> Mornin'
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> how's it going?
<lopta> hello daftykins
<lopta> I'm killing time until I get to go home.
<diddledan> that's murder!
<daftykins> :D IRC's finest use
<zmoylan-pi> or discussing which is best vim or emacs... tos v tng...
<diddledan> totng
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> tong
<diddledan> the original next gen
<lopta> I'm rewatching Voyager. Not even sure why.
<zmoylan-pi> 7 of 9?
<diddledan> Jeri Ryan can sing
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: She's not in it yet. I'm in Season 2.
<diddledan> I still love those scenes with her and Robert Picado singing together
 * zmoylan-pi awards diddledan the t-shirt... https://www.etsy.com/ie/listing/238173010/dalek-r2d2-tshirt-premium-cotton-star
<daftykins> i'm not sure i could tolerate Janeway in Voyager
<lopta> daftykins: The struggle is real.
<daftykins> enjoyed it at that 'after school' time as a kid, though
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> good to know :D
<zmoylan-pi> janeway is annoying but brilliant when it came to the borg
<daftykins> did she talk them to death?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that is the worst thing to show a geek who also has Obsessive Compulsive issues
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan that's why it exists
 * lopta fires up a Web browser, just to see the tee shirt.
<daftykins> XD
<lopta> :-)
<diddledan> Kate Mulgrew is better than the original plan of whatshername the french-canadian
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how they'll ruin the new tv series
<lopta> There's going to be a new Star Trek TV series?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: they already have, haven't they?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah
<lopta> It's going to be hard pressed to be much worse than the reboot films.
<diddledan> isn't "doing a tv series" tantamount to ruining it?
<zmoylan-pi> they aren't going to use worf afaik which he was up for
<diddledan> wha?!
<diddledan> I suppose he would have been one of Worf's ancestors?
<zmoylan-pi> worf was pushing for a new trek centred on non federation ship
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> apparently the lawsuit against axenar has been dropped
<zmoylan-pi> lawsuits against fans of trek are bad as the fans have a long memory
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> and the fans are the best suited to doing something well
<zmoylan-pi> have you seen the fan original series reboot?
<diddledan> nope
<zmoylan-pi> give it a watch
<zmoylan-pi> you soon forget it's not shatner/nimoy/deforest
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.startrekcontinues.com/
 * lopta accidentally sues himself.
<daftykins> i heard someone claim CBS would put the new ST on some kind of Netflix-type streaming service that would be US only
<diddledan> grr
<lopta> daftykins: Let me know if you need a VPN endpoint.
<zmoylan-pi> and torrents will correct that problem
<daftykins> lopta: hehe oh really? no IP range blocking by certain services? i have a London digitalocean VPS for other purposes that i know Netflix have blocked (as an example)
<lopta> daftykins: There are probably ways around that too.
<zmoylan-pi> send your mate in usa a preconfigured pi-zero... connect... :-) and do it for them so they can get dr.who and.... ... ... that is all
<daftykins> yeah, i think there's one of those DNS cheatery type things do-able by employing a local DNS setup, bit high maintenance though
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: whilst that would work, you'd have to be a lot less of a quality snob than me i feel ;)
<user2635> Just finished my DejaDup backup, got some errors. Can someone tell me if they look critical and how I can prevent them in future? http://pastebin.com/JT4dAMFz
<daftykins> i might not be qualified enough to comment but those look irrelevant to me
<user2635> Can you educate me so I know to spot what is irrelevant?
<user2635> i'm a noob
<Switches> It's basically saying a that a directory it's told to "backup" is not there (that's the IOError), the rest of the errors look like problems with a module from duplicity
<daftykins> i'm struck by the irrelevance of backing up the backup prog, if that's what i'm even seeing
<user2635> I'm so confused because
<Switches> It is
<daftykins> also a .cache folder
<user2635> I even specified for it to ignore .cache
<user2635> like you guys said
<user2635> i'm gonna man duplicity to find out what it is
<daftykins> perhaps whatever config you edited hasn't been reparsed, if you haven't rebooted since?
<user2635> ohh... i see
<user2635> daftykins, yeah.. maybe I haven't rebooted. I don't remember
<user2635> oh well! If its not important then its fine
<diddledan> I'd prefer to be a noob. now I'm just a knob
<Switches> The .cache its trying to back up isn't actually the one you blocked really, the program is telling it to looks for a specific folder in the .cache which isn't there because its ignored, so basically the program is going in circles
<Switches> It's just a "ignore it" thing really, aslong as the stuff you want backed up is being done
<user2635> Switches, I'm so confused.. so dejadup is being dumb
<user2635> today I learned that I need to know a way to spot the real names of packages
<user2635> otherwise I can't sudo apt-get update
<user2635> or man <package>
<user2635> like dejadup.. I wouldn't have known without googling
<user2635> its just called backup on ubuntu
<user2635> is there an easy way for me to do this without googling?
<Switches> Dejadup is always dumb imo, That's partly why I don't use it and have folders set with dropbox for the files i need backed up
<user2635> Switches, do you encrypt it? If so, please teach me, if not, I prefer not to have naked data in the cloud
<Switches> https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/27 have a read there, it basically tells you
<user2635> maybe I'm paranoid, but this website has different recommendations which makes me question what I should actually do
<user2635> https://www.privacytools.io/#cloud
<Switches> If you're that worried about it though, I would suggest using a "business" or "enterprise" solution like tarsnap or something
<user2635> also, did you have any thoughts on my previous question about identifying package names?
<user2635> I've heard of tarsnap but I'm too dumb to understand what it actually is
<user2635> it looks too complicated for me
<daftykins> what's the identifying q?
<daftykins> CLI new program finding?
<daftykins> "apt-cache search x"
<user2635> daftykins, its more like..
<user2635> here's a real case
<user2635> there's 'Disks' on ubuntu
<user2635> but is it really called disks?
<user2635> I'm sure I will keep running into this problem
<user2635> so I need a way to identify what the actual names are of the packages i'm using
<user2635> hope that is clearer
<daftykins> look at the binary name when it's open, if that's viable
<Switches> tarsnap is basically a backup service for totally paranoid people.. it basically has every "privacy" thing ever made all wrapped up lol
<user2635> daftykins, sorry.. what do you mean? how do I do it?
<daftykins> use a task manager, top, or ps -ef to show the program name when it's running
<Switches> And tbh any site that so say is about "privacy" that suggests "password keepers" that don't do 2factor auth and has a password keeper that generates from your name on there isn't worth trying to follow imo
<user2635> daftykins, thanks that really helps, I haven't learned how to properly use ps -ef yet
<user2635> but I know top is sort of like task manager in windows
<daftykins> i think others prefer "ps aux", but i don't know of any difference - never even tried
<daftykins> what you can do is things like chain it together with a text search, using the tool grep... "ps -ef | grep dd" would look for the program 'dd' running
<daftykins> all you would see if it's not running, is your own search query for it though :)
<user2635> daftykins, ok thats a good idea thanks, again I need to learn how to use bash
<daftykins> CLI is indeed ace
<user2635> Switches, so you mean I should stick with anything that has 2factor auth?
<Switches> Most things that have 2factor auth have always been reliable for me atleast, I have two factor set up on most my accounts I use and even have it on a few of my "dummy" ones lol
<diddledan> Switches: two words: Team.. Viewer..
<user2635> Switches, thanks for the advice :)
<user2635> another question, I'm using gnome-disks (just found out the actual name). I want to extend a partition but I don't know how
<user2635> it's my /home/ partition
<user2635> can someone teach me?
<daftykins> you use LVM?
<user2635> LVM?
<Switches> Team Viewer is still being argued though and tbh anyone who uses Team Viewer and not an "open source" alternative while they are doing all that "ecommerce" gets what they deserve.
<daftykins> !lvm
<lubotu3> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<daftykins> hmm those links are a bit pants
 * diddledan looks into daftykins' pants
<diddledan> tldp is seriously dated these days. I fear those docs never get updated anymore
<Switches> daftykins: He's new.. he probably just hit the "install next to windows" button, not the "create LVM with full LUKS" :p
<daftykins> Switches: ;) fair point sir
<daftykins> however knowing the options is fair education in itself!
<Switches> well true that
<daftykins> also, if it were, i would then know i have no friggin' idea and could shut my pie hole
<Switches> I don't use LVM on this machine tbh, I should really get around to doing it at some point
<daftykins> i have always avoided it as i don't understand it - and generally plan things for so long i don't get bitten by partition resize desires :>
<diddledan> I like enlarging my partition!
<Switches> Well LVM isn't really hard to understand, what's hard to understand is what you do when it goes wrong :p
<daftykins> diddledan: down boy
<diddledan> wait. that might be too double-entendre for in here
<Switches> Logical Volume Managers give you a hell of a lot of control, but they're use at time's is a bit weird.. and please don't ever try LVM on real raid system.. thats pointless :p
<Switches> I love when you go somewhere and you're looking at a full hardware raid but some tech has stuck LVM ontop of it >.<
<user2635> In order to extend a partition, does it have to be unmounted
<Switches> Normally yes
<user2635> ah..
<user2635> how can I do this then
<user2635> I'm trying to use gnome-disks
<Switches> With LVM not always, it has some tricks it can do for certain setups
<daftykins> user2635: live session
<Switches> ^
<user2635> oops I didn't realise you guys were helping me
<user2635> I thought you were talking about something else
<Switches> lol
<user2635> I don't know what LVM is and couldn't understand a thing
<user2635> you guys were talking about
<Switches> You're fine we kinda went off on a tangent
<user2635> so I held my response
<user2635> daftykins, good point, I got Ubuntu MATE on a usb
<user2635> by the way Switches, daftykins I realised how unsafe my computer is after discovering live usbs
<Switches> Na LVM is a great thing to use and supports full disk encryption which is also great
<daftykins> only if you haven't locked down your BIOS really, but the rule is "if they have physical access, all bets are off"
<user2635> if someone had a live usb and plugged it into my old windows machine, they would see all my files
<user2635> windows password doesn't do shit!
<Switches> You found out you can :p
<daftykins> language, please
<user2635> daftykins, my apologies
<daftykins> to be honest windows passwords never have, but Windows does have encryption support
<daftykins> so it's not a failing of it
<Switches> rofl, I just heard "World of Warcraft" called the "America Simulator"
<user2635> I need to learn about LVM later when I have time
<Switches> Bitlocker is only supported in the Pro versions afaik
<user2635> I guess in the meantime I will fire up my USB and manage my partitions from there
<user2635> I hope gnome-disks is on there otherwise I would be confused
<Switches> Just make sure not to touch any small partitions at the start of the drive (if they are there)
<Switches> If its a uefi machine it will probably have one or two depending on the config
<daftykins> Switches: yep to Pro being required
<daftykins> usually a TPM too, but that can be worked around with a group policy edit
<Switches> I can't believe they haven't put it in the consumer versions.. that sucks
<Switches> user2635: If you see any partitions at the start of the drive around 200>500mb in size with Fat32 *DO NOT* touch them :p
<daftykins> i don't think it's relevant, but yeah
<user2635> Switches, why? what is that? or is it too hard to explain
<user2635> or is it the usb drive itself
<user2635> I will report back and let you know how I do
<user2635> or tomorrow
<Switches> Well it's basically the UEFI partition that allows your system to boot, also I really ain't in the mood to try and explain what efibootmgr is and how to use it lol
<daftykins> user2635: is it worth you running your intended resize by us before getting too far? like if you don't want to learn things the hard way i mean
<user2635> basically.
<user2635> I went on windows
<user2635> I did a shrink down on my D drive
<user2635> and assumed I could use the empty space to extend my linux partition
<daftykins> oh and now you wanna "drag / from its' start back a ways" ?
<user2635> but when I booted up ubuntu, I realised I couldn't find where to do this on disks
<daftykins> where / is root, the main (possibly only, on your install) ubuntu partition
<user2635> I think it is greyed out because I've already mounted /home
<Switches> It will be yeah
<user2635> daftykins, Im trying to understand you
<daftykins> mmm?
<Switches> the folder structure on Linux is what he is explaining user2635 you have "/" which is "root" (where the OS is placed) and inside of that are folders for "/home" and so on
<daftykins> so you'd be resizing from the beginning, not the end
<user2635> sorry yes you're correct
<user2635> don't know why I said /home
<user2635> actually i do
<user2635> because my / is only 10 gb
<Switches> thats the partition you're trying to extend
<user2635> and my /home is 190
<user2635> so I want to bump up my /home
<user2635> is that clearer
<Switches> Yeah, we need to find out if the space you want to extend into is at the beginning or the end of the drive
<Switches> If you open disks is the bit you want to use after or before your /home directory?
<diddledan> LVM lets you mix things up somewhat with extending/shrinking filesystems
<user2635> I think I got a lot to learn. lol
<diddledan> with plain partitions you need to shuffle them all about as Switches suggests
<user2635> from what I understand
<user2635> the whole thing is an extended partition
<user2635> Within that partition, there are 4 sub partitions?
<user2635> (would you call it that?)
<diddledan> that's plain partitions. the "extended" is a way of allowing more than 4 partitions on the disk
<Switches> yeah pretty much, Extended acts a little like a container for other partitions
<user2635> In this order: Windows D drive 23 gb, 118 gb free, 4.1 gb linux swap, ext4 for /, ext4 for /home
<Switches> Where is the blank space "position" wise in that list user2635 is it before the "ext4 for /home" or is it placed after it?
<user2635> its as you see it
<user2635> the order I've done it
<Switches> Hmm yeah misread it
<user2635> (assuming gnome-disks is right)
<user2635> I never knew that the order mattered
<daftykins> i can't tell you how annoyed i am with nickcolor.pl that you are both green.
<daftykins> user2635: would you be so kind as to add an extra digit to your nick? :)
<daftykins> don't worry if not
<user2635> daftykins, huh? why?
<daftykins> my IRC clients' nickname colouring script alternates based on nickname length
<user2635> so do you guys have any final thoughts before I do some damage to my system?
<user2635> daftykins, hahah I see your pain
<daftykins> you're both the same character length XD
<daftykins> ah swap is before / eh, you're gonna have a real pain of a time sorting that
<user2635> daftykins, great...
<daftykins> user2635: how do you feel about sharing data directly with us? from CLI tools. you can see the output before choosing to share it, it's what you just said already though essentially
<user2635> CLI tools?
<user2635> ok give me a lesson
<daftykins> what i propose is "sudo parted -l" or to share it to us easier, install 'pastebinit' then "sudo parted -l | pastebinit" and share the URL here
<user2635> wow
<daftykins> or avoid that install even with "sudo parted -l | nc termbin.com 9999"
<user2635> there's a package to paste bin???
<user2635> super useful!
<daftykins> hells yeah
<daftykins> i used to be a regular volunteer over in #ubuntu ;)
<diddledan> if you're at all worried about what it might reveal, run it first without the "| pastebinit" so that you can check what it outputs first
<diddledan> daftykins: I wasn't aware of termbin
<daftykins> has anyone ever heard of "the cartridge people" ? my mum reckons she's got some that are giving grief in an Epson printer
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: one of my fellow volunteers found it and started using it, once i finally committed it to memory we began using it, but then they got DOS'd for a bit :/
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> s/we/I/
<user2635> you guys just need the table right?
<user2635> not the whole thing
<Switches> That's what were looking for yeah
<user2635> actually I don't really care
<user2635> how can it be sensitive data anyway
<daftykins> there's nothing anyone could make any use of
<user2635> its just numbers
<user2635> you may need to translate the japanese though
<user2635> unless you know a way to output in english
<daftykins> oh that can be fixed
<daftykins> i forget the command though
<daftykins> something lang=C ?
<user2635> didn't work
<user2635> shall I do man parted?
<daftykins> nah i mean i can't remember all of it
<daftykins> do you guys know what i mean?
<daftykins> hang on
<user2635> ok cool
<user2635> in any case.. it looks like I have to mess with my ordering, now that you said my swap is before root
<user2635> what problems does that give?
<daftykins> well maybe Switches can confirm but i don't know if you can resize toward the start of the disk
<daftykins> but to start, swap would have to either be moved or deleted
<diddledan> termbin's server is opensauce
<daftykins> i'm not sure if a move would change UUIDs (partitions have a unique ID number)
<daftykins> diddledan: <o/ \o>
<Switches> can kinda mess up fstab (the file that controls mounting partitions) at times
<diddledan> daftykins: that looks like two guys swordfighting
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> user2635: try "export LC_ALL=C sudo parted -l" then add "| pastebinit" if it works
<daftykins> it should output in English
<user2635> ok i'll try in a sec
<user2635> what does the C mean? i'm more used to seeing ISO codes
<user2635> like en_US
<user2635> or en_GB en_UK etc
<daftykins> i honestly have no idea!
<daftykins> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/87745/what-does-lc-all-c-do
<user2635> bash: export: `-l': not a valid identifier
<daftykins> ah ok hang on
<Switches> The language ISO most the time should be utf8, the keyboard layout is the only time it really changes which should be en_GB
<daftykins> user2635: try " 'export LC_ALL=C' sudo parted -l" then add "| pastebinit" if it works
<daftykins> so:
<daftykins> 'export LC_ALL=C' sudo parted -l
<diddledan> no export: sudo env LC_ALL=C parted -l
<user2635> env works!
<user2635> export saved it somewhere random.. I have no idea where it went
<user2635> lots of u numbers
<user2635> weird temporary directories I'm assuming
<diddledan> export saves it in your current terminal session
<daftykins> oh.
<diddledan> export is a command
<user2635> I see
<daftykins> ever play with environment variables in Windows? export deals with stuff like that
<user2635> daftykins, not really... only tried installing cygwin once
<user2635> and I needed to add a PATH for that
<user2635> ok let me pastebin it for you guys
<user2635> this is so cool
<user2635> i'm getting late night support LOL
<daftykins> yeah, that's what i mean
<daftykins> yeah it's like... half Saturday :>
<daftykins> user2635: i was going to ask you if #ubuntu-jp was rubbish :D
<user2635> here you go experts http://paste.ubuntu.com/16967996/
<user2635> daftykins, I've joined but my japanese is rubbish
<user2635> I've only done this to improve my japanese, but its quite overwhelming
<daftykins> oh, that's an added bit of masochism... you'll fit right in here!
<daftykins> do i smell encryption?
<user2635> yes you do
<user2635> its through ubuntu
<daftykins> the complications just went through the roof
<user2635> i decided to encrypt home
<diddledan> \o/
<user2635> great :)
<Switches> The you wont be able to extend it..
<Switches> then*
<diddledan> it depends if it's via luks or ecryptfs
<user2635> I have no idea diddledan
<user2635> can't I just decrypt. extend. then reencrypt?
<Switches> Extending the partition would screw up the encryption key as the size and checksum would change, so it would presume it was compromised
<daftykins> if only /home is encrypted though - and / is getting resized?
 * daftykins does not know encryption
<Switches> I thought it was home he wanted to extend?
<user2635> well guess what I'm glad I haven't done anything yet
<user2635> Switches, correct
<user2635>  /home
<user2635> as I understand it, root doesn't have to be big as its only for the distro
<daftykins> sorry, i had the plan wrong
<user2635> home is for everything
<Switches> Yeah, if you've done nothing to the system I would suggest you just blank the extended and redo the partition layout
<user2635> and swap is for memory right?
<daftykins> yeah, OS and apps
<daftykins> i would not dual boot on a 500GB
<daftykins> i also wouldn't use a computer without an SSD, but hey
<diddledan> if the encryption is the tickbox in the installer to "encrypt my home directory" then it should be encrypted via ecryptfs which is filesystem-level rather than block-level
<user2635> this is a laptop, the only computer I use
<daftykins> that doesn't negate SSDs being amazing
<daftykins> :D
 * user2635 has no idea what the difference is between filesystem level vs block-level
<user2635> I have a lot of reading to do
<daftykins> virtual vs physical, in a way
<Switches> diddledan: That's a good question, but I'm guessing as the swap is also showing cryptswap that it's being done block level, last I checked ecryptfs couldn't do swap files?
<diddledan> Switches: when you opt to use encryption of any kind in the installer (home directory or luks) then it will do cryptswap
<Switches> Ahh
<user2635> anyway I have to keep windows
<diddledan> the point being that you'll want protected memory so that the keys can't be harvested from swap whichever system you're using
<user2635> I'm not comfortable yet to go cold turkey into linux
<Switches> lol
<user2635> so i'm gonna dual boot still
<Switches> Fair shout :)
<user2635> I haven't really googled a linux guide
<user2635> its more 'google as I find problems'
<daftykins> i'm not really saying that you shouldn't dual boot, but that you would benefit from a hardware upgrade
<user2635> or irc, or post madly on random places as I'm impatient
<user2635> yeah i think this laptop must be over 3 years old? I think?
<user2635> don't remember
<daftykins> SSDs kept my 10 year old desktop feeling current for the last 6 years
<user2635> ok I love talking to you guys
<user2635> but I need to plan my attack
<Switches> Like I said I think the best bet would be for you to use the "expert" partitioning and set up the file system manually for Linux without touching your Windows install osprobe should pick up Windows, if you used expert you would just delete the partitions within the extended and then set up the new sizes for your /, /home, swap.
<user2635> and then sleep
<diddledan> takes all sorts. we're weirdos. I wouldn't like talking with us
<user2635> Switches, makes sense
<Switches> and ffs ubuntu-gnome stop making my usb sticks owned by root >.>
<user2635> I'm guessing osprobe is just a package which detects oses on a drive?
<daftykins> yee
<user2635> one question
<Switches> Yeah it's normally installed when grub is set up so it knows what the layout should be
<daftykins> or a function of grub maybe, not 100%
<user2635> as I said when I first popped in
<user2635> i did a dejadup backup, but my home is encrypted
<user2635> so I did an encrypt dejadup backup?
<user2635> technically?
<user2635> encrypted*
<Switches> yep
<user2635> so thats a problem right?
<user2635> I won't be able to restore
<user2635> how do I delete my pastebin?
<user2635> I forgot to ask!
<Switches> Well you should be able to aslong as you know the passkey, although not sure if that works, never tested it
<daftykins> user2635: the partition one? seriously nobody cares
<user2635> Switches, ah... great
<daftykins> at a stretch i can sympathise with some paranoia, but not pastes of irrelevant info
<user2635> daftykins, ok maybe nobody cares for this one, but for future pastebins
<daftykins> you'd be better off signing up to some kinda site that allows that (i don't know any)
<daftykins> oh i think i heard gists on github do it
<Switches> as far as I know they aren't kept perm anyways are they?
<user2635> pastebin does do it
<user2635> but not ubuntu pastebin
<daftykins> Switches: i think the ubuntu one is
<diddledan> you should be able to set a time limit
<daftykins> they're waiting for you to submit the PR, diddledan *whistle*
<daftykins> that's the dev 'joke' in #kodi
<user2635> yeah I gotta sleep now. i'll try and work this out tomorrow I guess
<user2635> and by the way you guys are right its encryptfs
<user2635> I found my unwrap code
<daftykins> no 'n' right?
<daftykins> ecryptfs?
<user2635> 'n'?
<daftykins> the letter isn't in the name?
<user2635> no
<user2635> wait what?
<user2635> unless I copied it down wrong
<diddledan> encryptfs and ecryptfs are different things
<daftykins> ah ok, ty sir
<diddledan> confusing, right? :-p
 * daftykins releases an expletive regarding FOSS
<diddledan> you install the one with an N and apt will warn you that it's insecure
<user2635> ok before I hit the sack
<diddledan> lightweight :-p
<user2635> you guys know more than me, you've seen my partition tables, anything to add?
<daftykins> buy an SSD
<Switches> Nope not me
<diddledan> sleep is for the weak
<user2635> Switches, said expert mode, redo the layout
<user2635> my challenge tomorrow is to just work out whether I can restore..
<user2635> SSD to put on todolist daftykins
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> That would be my suggestion, but then I normally just cba with fiddling with things anymore...
<diddledan> user2635: if you can confirm restore using deja dup then it should be safe to wipe the loonicks partitions and redo completely followed by restoring from your backup
<daftykins> the effort to buy an SSD would save you so much time in the future :)
<user2635> LOL loonicks?
<Switches> loonicks = linux
<daftykins> yep the Loonix
<user2635> you mean line ucks?
<daftykins> no it's not pronounced that way
<user2635> :)
<user2635> yes I know its not
<daftykins> y u do dis
<Switches> Loonix = OS for mad people
<user2635> diddledan, problem is, I don't really know a way to test this
<user2635> other than maybe.. installing yet another loonix distro and restoring on there
<user2635> its quite time consuming!
<diddledan> user2635: the easiest way is to create a unique file, back it up and then remove, finally try restoring to see if it comes back
<daftykins> perhaps the prog lets you view a backup from a live session? a good one would
<user2635> perhaps through virtual box?
<Switches> Dejudummy doesn't do that afaik (viewing the backups in a live session i mean)
<user2635> lots of great suggestions here, I've saved the log to read later
<Switches> :)
<user2635> before I go (again), do you guys have any linux guides you recommend?
<user2635> (not ones you haven't read yourself, that you just googled now)
<daftykins> learn by doing and writing a log book as you go, this'll help you
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-04
<daftykins> this channel is also public so you don't have to backup those logs ;)
<Switches> Depends on what you're doing really, there are a few dotted about, some of the unixmen ones are really good
<daftykins> (there are public logs)
<daftykins> !log
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too. Meeting logs from meetingology at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<user2635> daftykins, yep I am doing this now. I used to give up so easy and left linux (first time)
<user2635> ahh I forgot it was public, I should be careful what I say haha
<user2635> Switches, more day to day use I guess
<Switches> If you want to read really "nerdy" stuff then the gentoo handbook or archwiki is the place to look
<daftykins> best approach, know they already know and live life ;)
<user2635> Switches, and working out why CLI is better than GUI but I guess this comes from experience
<user2635> Switches, too nerdy for me at this stage
<daftykins> you won't always find the same GUI options available
<Switches> CLI isn't always better for some, it's just what you get used to
<Switches> Even I have had times where I been doing stuff and think "Why aint this just in the control panel ffs"
<user2635> lol
<daftykins> at times like that you have to whisper "YOLD!" to yourself
<Switches> systemd is one of them although there is a nice gtk3 manager app for it now
<daftykins> but i see it in Windows too so i'm only teasing :>
<Switches> :p
<user2635> Anyway, goodnight daftykins Switches diddledan
<Switches> night mate
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> toodle pip
<user2635> its funny how daftykins message is actually \o ( can you see a yen?)
<user2635> because this is what the japanese locale uses as a slash
<user2635> the yen sign
<daftykins> wat
<Switches> Hmm how nice.. seems gnome-control-center has decided to SIGSEGV (Address boundary error).. meh time for a restart
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> SIGSEGV would be a really good biscuit name
<Switches> yeah the linux way of saying segmentation fault and telling you to piss off, although it is nicer than a BSOD
<daftykins> you obviously haven't seen a modern one!
<daftykins> it's a really nice shade of blue now :)
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> (got them due to hardware failures)
<Switches> Yeah with a nice sad face on it
<daftykins> yep!
<daftykins> it lets you empathise with it
<daftykins> give the case a li'l' rub of pity
<Switches> Yeah I know, my daughters phone had it the other week :p
<daftykins> LOL Windows phone
<Switches> Yep, I have one aswell tbh, because they are cheap and basically throw away :p
<daftykins> apart from the 'cheap' that's all phones!
<Switches> Well I wouldn't throw an Ubuntu Phone away :p
<daftykins> i just bought a Â£9 landline basic BT thing, i kinda regret it 'cause the numbers are on the handset :(
<Switches> But EE doesn't do them yet :p
<daftykins> i would
<daftykins> except i wouldn't get/make one to begin with ;D
<Switches> I really like them tbh, they are interesting and something "out of the ordinary"
<Switches> Hmm wonder if i should rip out the nvidia card and put my AMD in when I restart, see how ubuntu likes hardware changes :p
<daftykins> i suppose if all you do is call or text you could get by
<daftykins> what's the nvidia? ;)
<Switches> I don't do either, so it's fine for me aslong as it can answer a call :p
<daftykins> dafty 'needs' a better gamin' card!
<Switches> old 750ti, but I don't game much on here at the mo, more reading than anything else :p
<daftykins> "daddy Switches can i get a lift home from $far_away_place?"
<daftykins> that'd probably beat my 560Ti ;)
<daftykins> i'll miss my card :( it was a great one back in the day
<Switches> Well the 1070 is interesting me at the mo (being this is somewhat a new-ish system), but the RX480 looks like a much better deal
<daftykins> me too, (but not the AMD part)
<Switches> Nvidia fan then?
<daftykins> still waiting on 1070 release and 480 reviews though
<daftykins> weeeeell i just can't be bothered to wait too much longer, especially for low end
<Switches> yeah
<daftykins> i do feel a tad paranoid that come year end i'll end up regretting an nvidia choice, but eh
<daftykins> you pays your money, and all that
<Switches> Well for me it's not really a big deal as I don't game at over 1080p
<Switches> and I'm not likely to change a 40" screen for a 1440p or 4k any time soon lol
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> why are you using a TV size thing as a monitor :P
<daftykins> i don't even like a clients' 30" Dell LCD
<Switches> Just like the screen :p
<daftykins> old CCFL thing by any chance?
<Switches> Plus it was cheap :p
<Switches> na its an IPS panel
<diddledan> my ccfl monitor has a wider colour gamut than my newer led one :-(
<diddledan> specifically on the red-side
<daftykins> i mean cathode backlit, it's nothing to do with IPS/PVA/TN
<daftykins> and all that jazz
<Switches> Think this one is LED backlit, not 100% sure
<daftykins> the 30" Dell 2560x1600 beast of my clients uses like, 350W according to the UPS
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> i don't like it 'cause you have to pan your head :<
 * diddledan pans daftykins' head. hard.
 * daftykins cricks
<diddledan> it was a frying pan
<daftykins> diddledan: i believe you failed to factor in the length of the claws on my cat...
<diddledan> my parents have been catsitting for my sister. the thing is cute-as
<diddledan> she's not much more than a kitten
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> why didn't you do it!?
<diddledan> lol.. I'm not suitable for looking after.. anything
<daftykins> i thought that, but my cat hasn't killed herself yet
<ball> Is Angry Birds available for Linux?
<daftykins> doubt it
<daftykins> although i suppose android counts if we're being picky ;D
<diddledan> I think it's available in the chrome app store
<ball> diddledan: That might work. Thanks!
<ball> Bore Da Welshman
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> why on earth am i up?
<ball> daftykins: Just in case.
<daftykins> you could be right
<ball> You know why I'm still up?
<daftykins> 'cause those damn pigs stole your eggs?
<ball> Heh... no, though fork and I have just got home from seeing the film ;-)
<daftykins> th... there's a film O_O
 * ball nods
<ball> She seemed to get a real kick out of it. :-)
<daftykins> :>
<ball> There were some funny moments in there for the grown-ups, too.
<daftykins> ah the mark of a good compromise
<ball> brb, it's her bed time.
<daftykins> o/
<Welshman> ball: Hi + Bore Da to you also. Also, sorry I did not reply sooner. Reason why is because I am 'in' the Opera browser channel trying to find out about something! Thanks. :)
<daftykins> i tell you what, Sark (neighbouring island to me) know how to sort those 'Angry Birds' pigs out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uoe3smsnf4uar1v/IMG_20160601_175500.jpg?dl=0
<Welshman> ball: I have been in the Opera channel for not 29 minutes and have not received a reply from anyone yet! :)
<daftykins> that's because you're the only one using it 8D
<Welshman> *the first "not" is a typing error!
<ball> daftykins: I've been to Sark more than once.
<daftykins> ah har!
<daftykins> it's a great island, sadly nobody makes ice cream over there anymore
<daftykins> and it also counts a good Â£50 odd return now :/
<Welshman> daftykins: Please excuse me for asking this, but: How do you know that I am the only 1 "using it" when there are "25 Users" listed in that channel or room?
<ball> daftykins: ISTR we couldn't dock in the harbour on my first visit so we deployed a RIB and came in that way :-)
<daftykins> Welshman: it's called humour
<daftykins> ball: :D sounds about right!
<daftykins> Enya named 'er last album after Sark
<Welshman> daftykins: Again please excuse me for asking this, but: Don't you mean sarcasm? :)
<daftykins> i'm about to extend a chosen digit your way, pal
<Welshman> I
<Welshman> Whoops! Typing error!!
<ball> Welshman: I think daftykins meant that you were one of very few people who use Opera, rather than the IRC channel for it.
<Welshman> ball: I am using the Opera browser because Firefox became slow and kept on crashing.
<daftykins> profile resets tend to sort that out
<daftykins> maybe a purge reinstall at most
<Welshman> daftykins: Thanks. :)
<daftykins> tried either already?
<Welshman> ball + daftykins: Would I be allowed to ask my Opera bowser question here seems that I am not or have not received a reply in the Opera chat channel or room?
<daftykins> is it on ubuntu?
<daftykins> if it's Mint i'll threaten you with more of my shocking humour
<ball> Welshman: You're welcome to ask but we might not know the answer ;-)
<Welshman> Linux Mint.
<daftykins> oy vey.
<ball> Oh. :-)
<daftykins> in fairness it's 4am so go for it
<Welshman> I am using the Opera browser through or via Linux Mint. Also, I want to watch videos etc on any website without using Adobe Flash Player and Adobe Shockwave player. I have installed the VLC Media Player. So, my question is: What can I use through Opera to be able to do this, is there a free plugin for Opera that would enable this or can I link the VLC Media Player to the Opera browser to be able to do this? Thanks. :)
<daftykins> what video are we talking?
<daftykins> if we're talking copyright infringing streaming sites, say "Tux is great" so i know i cannot assist
<ball> Doesn't Opera support HTML5 video?
<daftykins> i suspect it's flash provisioned because it's naughty.
<daftykins> but i'm just kinda used to assuming the worst since i hang out in #kodi
<Switches> Opera should support HTML5 and it supports pepperflash, it's based on Chromium.
<daftykins> just so you know though, i watch a lot of twitch.tv and find livestreamer.io has a plugin for it
<ball> I routinely use a Web browser with no Flash and I'm able to play video, usually.
<Welshman> Nearly any type of video. If any website provides a video on any subject and an "Install Flash" or "To be able to watch this video please install the latest version of Flash Player" message appears or displayed then I will need an equivalent player to be able to watch that video!
<daftykins> this makes playback ace because i can run "livestreamer twitch.tv/username" and it'll run the stream in my fave media player
<ball> Ah, there are still a few Web sites out there that do that.
<daftykins> you shouldn't get that if you have pepperflash installed properly
<daftykins> if it does indeed support it
<daftykins> so i kinda suspect shenanigans there
<Welshman> daftykins: I thought that the Pepperflash Player was only compatible/suitable for Windows and not Linux?
<ball> daftykins: I've never even heard of Pepperflash.
<Switches> pepperflash was made for Linux, Windows still has Adobe Flash updates (although it can use pepperflash aswell), Linux doesn't.
<daftykins> yeah it's google's own one
<daftykins> !info pepperflashplugin-nonfree
<lubotu3> pepperflashplugin-nonfree (source: pepperflashplugin-nonfree): Pepper Flash Player - browser plugin. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.8.2ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 10 kB, installed size 41 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<daftykins> install that, Welshman (whilst every opera window is closed, just to be safe)
<Welshman> daftykins: Okay. I will try that out. Thanks. :)
<daftykins> np!
<Welshman> ball + daftykins: Just about to leave this channel or room. So, thanks to you both, enjoy your Saturday and all the best for the rest of 2016! :)
<ball> Welshman: Nos da! ;-)
<daftykins> that's the most cruel thing to deny me the potential warm fuzzy feeling of success :(
<daftykins> now i'll go through life wondering if Welshman is watching videos
<Switches> He will be
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> BUT BY WHAT MEANS!?
<Switches> Opera has been based on Chromium for ages, it even uses the chrome store
 * daftykins throws Switches 
<daftykins> see what i did there? i bet nobody has ever said that to you :)
<Switches> Ermm SonnikuAmerica does it all the time :p
<daftykins> ^_^
<Switches> But I really don't get why people still believe in using mint...
<ball> I've not seen it so I don't know what it's like.
<Switches> I've seen it, used it and been pissed off by it and it's "developers" for the most part xD lol
<daftykins> the one argument i heard was the preinstalled codecs one - and that's now moot because they aren't gonna ship them, plus it was weak
<ball> What desktop does it use?
<Switches> The other argument is they don't include security patches pushed out by Ubuntu
<Switches> Cinnamon
<Switches> Cinnamon is their fork of Gnome3, just with Shell removed
<ball> Ah. I've seen picturs of Gnome3 but never used it.
<daftykins> oof, how do they stay secure!?
<Switches> Easy they don't
<daftykins> or was it really that they kinda delay them? :>
<daftykins> i just feel like being 2 steps away from your upstream essentially, is dumb
<Switches> Well I would call waiting almost 9 mths for a security fix that was pushed is a little more than a delay :p
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> so what you're telling me is Mint is closer to Windows ;)
<Switches> Well they are and they aren't really.. The thing is although Ubuntu uses "debian" archives they are for the most part what is in Sid, plus the fact they are modified and rebuilt for Ubuntu
<Switches> Mint imo atleast is worse than Windows
<Switches> Although MS has a bad track record for "security" they normally push fixes as they come along
<daftykins> sorry i don't know debian enough to know how sid is placed, stable release?
<Switches> sid is unstable
<daftykins> ah ok, makes more sense :>
<Switches> stable is jessie at the mo, the stables for the most part change the name, Sid is basically always Sid (testing stuff)
<Switches> Oh and yeah.. debians naming system is Toy Story
<daftykins> i... never once knew that O_O
<daftykins> haha do you remember when the IT industry was parroting how the nvidia geforce 256 could render that in realtime? :)
<daftykins> think it was the #1 anyway
<Switches> lol yep
<Switches> Think it was some of the guys behind blender actually debunked it.. I remember that was a big curfuffle about it
<daftykins> no wai
<Switches> I know I'm old.. I can remember before the geforce cards, when the Riva was still a thing xD
<daftykins> oh me too, just the geforce 1 ads suckered me in big time
<daftykins> "but daaaad, it's the worlds first gee-pee-yew!"
<Switches> Saying that.. I think I still have a "Rage128" around in the attic somewhere >.>
<ball> I remember when PCs had literally no graphics.
<ball> ...but the text looked pretty good.
<Switches> I try not to remember that far back, it hurts whats left of my brains
<daftykins> :)
<Switches> "Why's the text all green?"
<Switches> Or the "Well it can't understand BASIC!"
<ball> The PC shipped with BASIC in ROM
<ball> ...AND A CASSETTE PORT!
<Switches> The cassette was optional!
<Switches> And cost a bomb :p
<ball> Aye but the port was there.
<Switches> lol true
<daftykins> my dad won the department's apricots in the sell-off raffle, so they had those buttons where you could change the colour
<daftykins> purple DOS anyone?
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Omg that's going back.. I still remember the Acorn Archimedes >.>
<daftykins> not raffle, silent auction thing
<daftykins> the 'hard disk' one had those removable 50MB tape thingys
<ball> Switches: RM Nimbus too?
<Switches> Ack!! we had them allover the school!
<Switches> Can't we just scrub half this stuff from existence so we never have to think about it again? lol
<daftykins> i always wanted Holly from Red Dwarf's memory :(
<daftykins> i could rediscover music i wore out
<Switches> you'd discover far scarier things than music :p
<ball> "Many wurlitzers are missing from my daffodil!"
<Switches> Just think.. you would be able to relive the days of "The Wurzels" and "Combine Harvester" xD
<daftykins> i suddenly had a flashback to Carry on Nurse' meaning of Daffodil
<daftykins> and with that, i should ask "when shall we three meet again?"
<ball> 06:30 GMT on Sunday is a high tide, I think. ;-)
<daftykins> hmm just need to check at what altitude my cauldron is at
<ball> QNH or QFE? ;-)
<daftykins> i'm not familiar with either of those!
<ball> QNH is air pressure at sea level. QFE is air pressure at airfield level.
<ball> I was reminded of that when you mentioned cauldron altitude
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> :D
<ball> If you're in an aircraft and you set it to the wrong thing, you can seriously misjudge where the ground is.
<ball> ...which is often a bad thing.
<daftykins> i'd love to run a question about this to my pilot mate, but can't think of anything amusing to do with the phrasing
<daftykins> i think it's too late, i'm trying to make a joke out of everything and failing miserably
<ball> What is it, 05:15?
<daftykins> yep!
<daftykins> oof and now my fave west coast twitch streamer is live :(
<daftykins> ok i'm gonna go be in denial about sleep, later guys \o
<ball> daftykins: Sleep well
<daftykins> ty!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Switches> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Switches
<dwatkins> allo allo
<Switches> http://betanews.com/2016/06/04/teamviewer-hack-security/ they are saying it was due to data dumps on "external" sources... yet the still add two more "features" for security lol
<user2635> Hi all
<marshmn> I just upgraded my machine to Ubuntu 16.04; when I did this, it told me that it was going to disable my custom repositories - which it did
<marshmn> I'm now trying to re-enable them following the upgrade
<marshmn> when I go to the "other software" tab in the "Software Updates" app, I can see them there and that they are disabled
<marshmn> but clicking on the checkboxes to enable them doesn't seem to do anything?
<marshmn> they don't get ticked at all
<popey> hello marshmn :)
<popey> I personally go directly to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and edit each list file by hand
<marshmn> hi Popey
<marshmn> OK, I can do that
<bittin> popey: heh same here :p
<bittin> sudo vim /etc/apt/sources.list
<bittin> <3
<penguin42> BHS big sale doesn't seem to have started yet; only |30% off which was always about normal for it
<marshmn> I'm sick of suspend or hibernate not working on my laptop
<marshmn> so I'm trying to diagnose it
<marshmn> so, I'm running 'pm-hibernate' to try and get the machine to hibernate; this turns the machine off after a few seconds, and then when I boot up it doesn't resume - it just boots like normal
<marshmn> then when I login, I get a message from Ubuntu saying that there "has been a problem" and offering to send a report to Ubuntu
<marshmn> looking at the details of this, it is indeed failing to hibernate
<marshmn> but I can't really get further than that to know why it's failing or how to fix it
<penguin42> marshmn: It's not unusual for it to moan about there having been a problem - it might be unrelated
<penguin42> marshmn: I think ubuntu errors like that end up in /var/crash if you want to have a look
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, ping
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: wat
<marshmn> well, after about 100 reboots, I still don't have working hibernate, all I succeeded in doing is making my machine take around a minute longer than normal to shutdown now :(
<penguin42> I've got some weird random long shutdown times, it's a real pain
<brmbrmcar> I just cold reboot every time :)
<zmoylan-pi> years of trying to use hibernate on windows convinced me to use my pc in it's two modes 1) on 2) off :-P
<penguin42> well that's my problem; with a longer shutdown time it really annoys me; especially when it's ~3am and you decide you actually want to go to bed and the damn thing doesn't want to shut down
<zmoylan-pi> for me it was gotta run for the bus select hibernate and then wait for ages while it churns out a save file...
<penguin42> there's something with shutting down ubuntu (I've also occasionally seen similar on Fedora) where it says it's waiting for a process to stop and it waits 90 seconds
<user2635> hi guys I'm back
<user2635> and now running Ubuntu MATE!
<Switches> penguin42: It's systemd killuserprocess timeout
<user2635> the Dejadup backup worked!
<user2635> a few things were messy though
<user2635> does anyone know how to reset the home folders so they 'return' to the system language
<Switches> And whoa.. that was a while ago.. almost an hour late to that discussion, sorry
<Switches> Hmm not me sorry mate
<Switches> I only use one language and that's normally totally "broken" English of some sort..
<user2635> :) its ok
<user2635> Switches, do you use hexchat? have you tried irssi?
<penguin42> Switches: Interesting, maybe it is that - but how to track it?
<Switches> Sorry was off talking to mum and getting coffee, Well there was a command think it was "systemctl --status $USER" was showing a load of services still running after you hit the "reboot/logout" other than that I'm not sure.. There are a few posts on the systemd and fedora sites about it
<penguin42> Switches: Interesting
<Switches> It seems to be something to do with processes not being cleaned up by gnome.. That's why they changed the "KillUserProcess=" thing in 230 from what I can tell.
<penguin42> Switches: It's possible it's the way I'm doing it; I tend to just issue a 'powerdown' command - I've got that bound to a shortcut on xfce to match the shortcut I'm used to on KDE (ctrl-alt-shift-pagedown) - it's possible there's something kinder
<Switches> Possibly, tbh I only get the problems on Gnome, Unity (for the most part) doesn't get it. But then my Unity ain't exactly "stock" either
<penguin42> I'm on xfce
<Switches> Yeah not really read anything about whether the same thing affected Xfce or not. I don't use Xfce so don't really keep track of it
<penguin42> Switches: I keep thinking that stuff should do things differently in shutting down a service/process when it's a machine shutdown - a lot of cleanup just isn't needed - it can just disappear
<Switches> Well yeah for the most part a load of cleanup is overkill, it comes down to the old "someone else will clean it up" with coding though that causes problems.
<user2635> Is 'Downloads' supposed to show by default on the file manager (on the let)
<user2635> left*
<user2635> Mines missing and it looks strange
<user2635> but if this is normal I will leave it
<Switches> Well it normally does.
<user2635> then I need to know how to fix it :)
<user2635> any ideas? otherwise I'll just post on ask ubuntu
<Switches> Well is the folder actually in the "Home" directory?
<Switches> or i should say is there a /home/<username>/Downloads
<user2635> yes there is
<user2635> but i'm not sure its even the right one
<user2635> if I remember correctly, the right one has a folder with a 'down' icon
<user2635> this has a normal folder icon.
<Switches> right click on it and go to properties and then "permissions" see if the user is marked as "me"
<user2635> Switches, I fixed it
<user2635> found the answer on askubuntu
<Switches> Ahh cool
<user2635> just needed to edit a config file
<user2635> http://askubuntu.com/questions/563583/how-to-restore-the-down-arrow-icon-on-the-downloads-folder-in-the-home-directory
<user2635> FYI in case someone else asks
<daftykins> heh 'cause we can all retain that ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-05
<mapps> hey
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> a rather rubbish night out
<mapps> now i know why i drink alone:)
<mapps> whole night was on about her ex and how he beat her up etc
<mapps> like jesus
<mapps> i dont wanna know
<mapps> what can i do?
<daftykins> crikey, you meet some nice lasses
<mapps> they arent like me
<mapps> its all foreign to me..trust me
<mapps> i had a mum and a dad, no problems, not known to courts/social/police
<mapps> now seems normal to be known to them
<daftykins> mapps: is this an ex-pat undesirable then?
<mapps> nah she's local
<mapps> 2 kids same dad, just a bit silly
<mapps> she was drunk after the chinese,
<mapps> irritated me
<mapps> im quite a heavy drinker, why woul i go out with her
<mapps> i probably drink ~20pints a week
<mapps> on average
<mapps> sometimes less, sometimes more
<daftykins> what's your poison down there?
<mapps> heineken in gib..shockingly its heineken everywhere
<mapps> in spain cruzcampo
<mapps> i used to buy vodka from morrisons..it so cheap Â£6 for a lite of stoli
<mapps> but il have 6 pints..come home..drink the bottle
<mapps> so i dont buy any spirits for home anymore
<daftykins> aaaaah yeah i remember cruzcampo now from my roadtrip years ago
<mapps> and i smoke heh
<mapps> i go to the gym 5x a week
<mapps> but i know that doesnt make up for it
<daftykins> for some reason i had it in my head you were cutting down on the ol' smoking
<mapps> i dont smoke everyday
<mapps> but when i drink i smoke a pack
<mapps> so 3 packs a week prob
<daftykins> i have mates that always do their rollups along with drinking out
<daftykins> still happy not to touch it, myself :) already got my electronics habit!
<mapps> i like rollies;)
<mapps> smoked rollies for 8 years
<mapps> but cigs so cheap here i smoke straights
<knightwise> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> allo brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<MooDoo> :)
 * SuperEngineer thinks moodoo should be the new name for cowsay
<zmoylan-pi> no no, moodoo is your cow orkers todo list... :-P
<SuperEngineer> orker the whale?
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
 * zmoylan-pi points SuperEngineer at the official definition of cow orker... :-) http://catb.org/jargon/html/C/cow-orker.html
<SuperEngineer> [this I goota see!]
<SuperEngineer> orking cows is illegal!
<zmoylan-pi> unless you have a licence and they are in season
<SuperEngineer> got me there
 * SuperEngineer applies for cow orking licence
<zmoylan-pi> of course that means going down to the cow orker licence office and actually meeting the other cow orkers...
 * SuperEngineer cancels application for cow orking licence
<zmoylan-pi> sir has chosen... wisely...
<SuperEngineer> lol
<penguin42> popey: G+ is offering to translate Wat! to What!
<popey> penguin42: hah, excellent
<diddledan> evening
<popey> ooh, steam controller is 30% off this weekend
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/353370/
<popey> i was gonna get a 3rd one anyway because we always fight over who has to use the xbox 360 controller
<popey> 7.40 shipping though :(
<Switches> Â£7.40 shipping? who delivers it GabeN?
<m0nkey_> I MUST HAVE THE VIVE!
<Switches> Why?
<m0nkey_> There is not reason to have one. I WANT ONE.
<Switches> lol well good enough reason I guess
<diddledan> lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD51cdLbZJc (may contain spoilers if you've not seen start warts the force awakens yet)
<user2635> What is the 'templates' folder for
<user2635> in home
<diddledan> templates, probably
<user2635> lol..
<diddledan> e.g. msword would use a .dot file (I know msword isn't available on loonicks)
<user2635> so basically document templates
<user2635> I was wondering what people actually used it for
<MartijnVdS> there's "ott", "otp", "ots" etc. for Libre/Openoffice
<zmoylan-pi> when they got win95 running on the apple watch did they try to install office of that era? :-)
<MartijnVdS> (instead of odt, odp, ods)
<MartijnVdS> for the templates
<user2635> ok I understand
<user2635> i'll leave it there but I don't really need to use it
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<penguin42> hey bigcalm
<popey> hello hello
<diddledan> so it seems the machinegun on my speakers is probably my wifi
<diddledan> just need to figure-out an antenna alignment that eliminates it
<diddledan> it's mostly resolved now but occasionally it'll break through again
<daftykins> diddledan: you're really getting that pronounced a noise?
<daftykins> maybe a better shielded cable is all they need
<user2635> Within keyboard shortcuts, some entries show XF86Mail for example, for the email client. What does XF86 mean?
<diddledan> I am
<diddledan> was
<user2635> Another one I don't recognise is KP
<daftykins> XF86 was the old name for the precursor to xorg i think
<diddledan> XF86 = XFree86 which is the old name before Xorg for X11
<MartijnVdS> XF86 = XFree86
<MartijnVdS> a pun on "X386" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X386
<diddledan> and before XFree86 it was X386
<diddledan> hah, MartijnVdS , you're reading my brian
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: your Brian?
<MartijnVdS> you have external memory?
<diddledan> yeah, friends with Fred
<MartijnVdS> xD
<zmoylan-pi> welease bwian
 * diddledan weweases bwian
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: You have fwiends in wome?
<zmoylan-pi> he's a wobber
<diddledan> oi, bignose!
<zmoylan-pi> blessed are the cheesemakers
<diddledan> you're all individuals, you're all unique
<zmoylan-pi> not just cheesemakers but everyone in the dairy industry
<zmoylan-pi> we found this spoon sir
<diddledan> those are good for cutting hearts out with
<daftykins> this topic isn't doing wonders for assessing my sanity ;D
<zmoylan-pi> what has sanity ever done for daftykins
<daftykins> precisely!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhfuuKiTcYQ
<user2635> daftykins, diddledan thanks but it still doesn't mean anything to me
<user2635> its not a button I can press
<user2635> any ideas what KP means?
<diddledan> Colonel Panic?
<daftykins> i know nothing about nor am interested in futzing with keyboard shortcuts in an OS i don't use, sorry
<zmoylan-pi> someone splashed out on peanuts? :-P
<daftykins> dry roasted please
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer manhattan dry roasted.  much nicer
<daftykins> aaah imagine my horror in the pub the other night when i ask for dry roasted and get given Nobby's Nuts
<user2635> daftykins, alright
<diddledan> https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154319461033689&id=665668688
<diddledan> can you see that?
<diddledan> might be private
<daftykins> nope
<diddledan> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> and as a discworld reader the thought of eating nobbys nuts made you gag?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> well anywho, it's "What would happen if stormtroopers try to shoot Sean Bean?"
<zmoylan-pi> they'd miss, he'd die anyway
<zmoylan-pi> same as when they shoot at star trek red shirts
<diddledan> why is Sean Bean said like "shaun been" rather than "seen been" or "shaun baun"?
<zmoylan-pi> cos it's an irish name
<diddledan> that's not a reason
<daftykins> i watched Star Trek (2009) for the first time ~5am today, oof the lens flares
<diddledan> daftykins: 5am!! \o/
<daftykins> found it was quite good though really
<zmoylan-pi> and it's usually written as seÃ¡n bean but that confuses the english
<user2635> daftykins, diddledan it was so obvious yet I didn't see it
<diddledan> daftykins: that's the best time to be watching random scifi - preferably after you've been awake long enough that you're in the adrenaline overload phase
<user2635> basically I guessed right, its just if your keyboard supports those buttons
<user2635> so mail for mail, calc for calc etc
<zmoylan-pi> tonights movie is... i went down or the name of the rose...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not at all, that's totally Sea-yawn Bean
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'm hoping that accent is not the same as the French acute accent so even those with keymapping which includes the standard mainland twiddly bits still can't reproduce the irish properly
<daftykins> user2635: ah those silly additional buttons like compaq did in the early 2000s
<daftykins> i was not a fan, to say the least
<zmoylan-pi> i can direct you as a sassenach to many fine irish schools here that will /educate/ you on the pronounciation of seÃ¡n... :-P
<diddledan> I like the name Niamh
<daftykins> Niamh Leeson
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> you don't mind a little scar tissue, do you? :-P
<daftykins> diddledan: amusingly i'd only been up since about 10pm then
<daftykins> and now i've only been up since 7pm
<daftykins> i'm a tad broken - i have to be up for 5am for my Spain trip Tuesday, too
<diddledan> eep
<zmoylan-pi> an alarm clock with electrodes...
<diddledan> you could try not sleeping
<zmoylan-pi> that's how you fall asleep at 4am
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I do that far too much
<diddledan> "hmm, I'm awake at 5am. need to be awake for work soon. I'll not go to sleep at all today." gets to 8am and *thud* zzzzz
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> diddledan: i suppose you're more free to do stuff in your own time now, though?
<zmoylan-pi> i found sleeping under my desk with one foot pressed against the door, would wake me and i'd claim to be fixing a cable problem... :-P
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> and if you're dealing with those gentoo boxen, you probably need to be active out of daytime hours for the company anyway?
<diddledan> those bloomin gentoo!
<zmoylan-pi> compilers in the mist...
 * daftykins imagines a flower that's impossibly hard to cultivate
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: please, it's too early for rap
<zmoylan-pi> but i plan to do my klingon battlechants at 3am...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hurry up graphics cards, you need to release so i can stare at numbers and spend some money!
<daftykins> haha just solved an Italian guys problem with an amp going into power save mode during his music listening, because it had a sleep mode on... i read the online manual to spot that XD
<zmoylan-pi> who reads manuals anymore... or for that matter... ever?
<daftykins> only for the super quirky stuff
<user2635> What's an easy way to view details of what a particular parameter does for a command?
<zmoylan-pi> i think the worst piece of hardware i own is a bush mp3 player were i had to read the manual to work out how to change the volume...
<daftykins> reading the man page
<user2635> Basically, I think I have to use grep but I'm dumb.
<daftykins> user2635: describe the situation
<user2635> ok the situation is
<daftykins> on one line would be nice...
<user2635> i'm looking at a command which does tar -xvJF, rather than just execute the command by copy+paste. I want to learn what it actually does, so I need to go through -x -v -J -F because I'm a newb.
<daftykins> no, you read "man tar"
<daftykins> eXtract, Verbose are the first two
<user2635> Ok, I was wondering if there was a quicker way, as man displays the whole thing
<daftykins> nope
<zmoylan-pi> or if man scares you try http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man1/tar.1.html which is a prettier web based version...
<user2635> man doesn't scare me
<zmoylan-pi> then | it to less and read the results of man
<daftykins> sometimes it's tough to work out how to use a new program, because i think devs are rubbish at documentation
<user2635> what does verbose mean..?
<daftykins> more detail
<daftykins> increase verbosity...
<daftykins> "show what it's doing"
<zmoylan-pi> the people who write the best code are the ones who couldn't make it through some elses documentation... :-)
<user2635> ok
<bigcalm> user2635: you can search through man pages using /
<user2635> bigcalm, awesome, i'll try it
<bigcalm> user2635: it's like using less and vim to an extent
<user2635> bigcalm, very helpful! thanks, and I've never used less or vim
<daftykins> nano ftw
 * daftykins ducks away from the text editor wars
 * zmoylan-pi makes note to get daftykins the mother of all vim tattoos next time he gets drunk at a foss event... :-P
<bigcalm> nano is my editor of choice
<bigcalm> I know people who love vim, but I don't spend my life in CLI text editors.
<bigcalm> I use a CLI text editor to quickly edit something
<zmoylan-pi> gvim for the gui inflicted exists... :-)
<bigcalm> My work is all done in PhpStorm
<user2635> as a newbie, I've only tried nano
<bigcalm> user2635: less is your friend when you want to quickly look at the contents of a file in a read-only state
<user2635> and gedit
<user2635> bigcalm, just used it, its basically man!
<bigcalm> Great thing is that you can pipe output to it. For instance, if you have a directory with a lot going on in it, you could use: ls -lha /var/log | less
<zmoylan-pi> and can search using good old /texttofind
<bigcalm> user2635: think of man using less, rather than the other way around
<user2635> bigcalm, that is the way I'm thinking about it actually :)
<daftykins> i deal with servers only so nano it is :>
<user2635> its great that I'm learning about these commands, but the truth is, I'm a normal user and I can't imagine how I would incorporate these to my day to day tasks
<daftykins> well exactly, unless you end up running your own server at home that you access from out around the world, like a lot of us probably do, or host a website on... it's less likely
<bigcalm> user2635: don't expect to use everything all of the time. But knowing some core CLI commands will help you out now and then
<bigcalm> user2635: it's quite possible to live your entire life in the GUI on Linux and never need the CLI
<bigcalm> Just depends what you want to do with your computer
<daftykins> haha, i doubt that for how often things go wrong/funky :P
<user2635> bigcalm, yeah, I know the basics like cd ls apt install/remove rm cp
<bigcalm> As I say, it's depends upon one's use case. Somebody who does admin for a living would be unlikely to open a terminal
<user2635> for me, its more about security
<user2635> thats why I transitioned to linux
<user2635> but I have to get used to using different programs to windows
<bigcalm> user2635: and it's wonderful that you want to know why commands do what they do, rather than just copy/pasting them blindly
<daftykins> yeah, the first time i heard people actually do just paste them into a terminal from guides rather than type and understand, i was horrified
<user2635> I still copy and paste, if I know it will be a one time thing
<user2635> but I figured tar is to do with extracting
<daftykins> or archiving
<bigcalm> I stated out by blindly copy/pasting. Over time I wanted to know what the commands were actually doing
<daftykins> though in its' standard guise i think it does no compression, so it's not like zip
<bigcalm> user2635: tar is for archive management. It doesn't include compression unless you tell it to. -z for zip, -j for bzip2 for instance
<bigcalm> Oops, -z for gzip. zip is actually different
<user2635> archive management..?
<user2635> i guess thats a whole 'nother thing for me to look into
<daftykins> archives, like zip files
<daftykins> a file with a bunch of files in.
<user2635> yeah i used 7zip in windows
<bigcalm> A zip file is an archive (collection of files and directories) with compression on top
<user2635> i didn't know there was a term for it
<user2635> archive management
<bigcalm> It's what I called it. It may be called other things
<bigcalm> :)
<daftykins> yeah he's using the english language, not some official term there
<user2635> ok :)
<daftykins> time for a win7 install on an intel atom + nvidia ion1 HTPC
<daftykins> used to be an HTPC, that is :>
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hey i'll race your Pi!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> shhhhhh!! it's monday out there!!
<brobostigon> it is, yes, and its wet and dreary.
<zmoylan-pi> dry for now... https://isitraining.in/Dublin
<brobostigon> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcpn7mp10
<TwistedLucidity> It's a Bank Holiday for some, so of course it's horrid.
<acheronUK> very horrid http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40083025
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> would it be possible to run an install image in something like virtualbox or qemu etc, and then install to a usb stick?
<penguin42> brobostigon: That depends
<penguin42> brobostigon: The emulated hardware in qemu/virtualbox is a bit weird - kind of like a late90s PC with extras, if the installation installs the more normal drivers as well you're OK, if it just installs enough for that then you'll be a bit stuck
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<brobostigon> is there a better way of doing it in that case?
<penguin42> well, it's not necessarily a bad way - just saying be a little careful
<brobostigon> ok, ty, :)
<penguin42> brobostigon: The other thing I'd do is when you configure the qemu/virtualbox I'd give it a virtual USB stick rather than a virtual any other disk, it might have a better chance depending what you're installing
<brobostigon> ah ok, let me try and see what happens.
<dogmatic69> any idea why my memory card does not show up? in the syslog I can see it detected
<dogmatic69> May 29 16:53:09 optimus-prime kernel: [788822.093808] scsi 14:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Mass     Storage Device        PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS
<penguin42> 14? !
<penguin42> hmm
<dogmatic69> :O
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Does anything show in /proc/partitions ?
<dogmatic69> no such file or directory
<penguin42> ?
<dogmatic69> sorry missed the s...
<dogmatic69> its empty
<penguin42> empty? It wont be empty
<dogmatic69> sorry, I thought it was a folder. its got https://paste.ubuntu.com/24704209/
<dogmatic69> also from sys log when inserting: mtp-probe: checking bus 3, device 19: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb3/3-13"
<dogmatic69> In nautilus I can see something flash for a split second in the "drive" list. It's like it tried
<penguin42> dogmatic69: how big is the card?
<dogmatic69> 64GB
<dogmatic69> I just had it in windows and was working
<penguin42> hmm none of those look like 64gb
<dogmatic69> its a dashcam card, might be some half attempt at a file system...
 * penguin42 assumes other errors in the dmesg?
<dogmatic69> its a usb card reader
<dogmatic69> dmesg https://paste.ubuntu.com/24704246/
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Were you removing the card and putting it back there or did it do it by itself?
<penguin42>  'Product:  AutoRUN/Partition'  fun
<dogmatic69> I was putting it in and out
<penguin42> dogmatic69: OK, put it in, then leave it a few seconds and get a fresh dmesg and /proc/partitions
<dogmatic69> that was after a while, its not had anything since that paste
<dogmatic69> at a glance, partitions looks the same
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Thing is that's saying there's a sdd but I don't see it in /proc/partitions
<penguin42> dogmatic69: You say this is a USB card reader? What happens if you unplug the reader and reconnect it?
<dogmatic69> its a sandisk MicroMate
<dogmatic69> that is what I have been doing
<penguin42> hmm not sure, it looks OKish from the dmesg
<penguin42> it's not saying the size of the disk that's a bit odd
<dogmatic69> maybe the reader is crapped out
<dogmatic69> Thanks anyway, I will just use a actual card reader on my laptop as that is working.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-30
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> is google auth all done client side?
<foobarry> would i need to open any firewall ports server side too?
<brobostigon> define, google auth?
<foobarry> as part of 2FA for a web page on my server
<foobarry> using a gogle authenticator TOTP android app for example
<brobostigon> so you mean using something like yubico's autehntication server?
<brobostigon> to create 2fa codes.
<foobarry> yes
<brobostigon> as far as i am aware it all works over https, although i may be totally wrong.
<foobarry> https between client and server?
<foobarry> my main questino is that if the server was in a secure environment with no outgoing internet allowed, would it work?
<brobostigon> good question.
<popey> google auth is client side
<foobarry> i think so, but i need to find out.
<popey> it's a counter thing
<foobarry> thanks popey , i might run a quick test on a demo server to ensure no external connection required to initiate when setting this up too
<brobostigon> i was just going to say, a yubikey for example, does have a time counter so cant directly use totp except through apps like yubikey authenticator.
<brobostigon> doesnt have*
<foobarry> my main interest is the server side implementation
<popey> counter based 2fa solutions don't need network, same as yubikey, and 2fa python app
<diplo> How many of you guys use a yubikey?
 * brobostigon has three.
<brobostigon> my fiance also uses one, on my advice.
<diplo> Which do you recommend ? I was looking at the YubiKey4 ?
<brobostigon> i have a 4 and a neo, the 4 allows for larger keys, but the neo has nfc.
<diplo> I'd like it for KeePassXC too, but it appears you need to use keepass prof. Will take a look at the neo though thanks.
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Seems someones wrote the code for yubikey for xc now, will tinker once I've ordered
<diplo> In release 2.2.0 when it comes out if anyone is interested
<foobarry> didn't yubikey go all proprietary for v4?
<popey> dunno, i have an old one, never needed to replace it
<popey> in fact I have about 20 spare ones. I should probably lob them on fleabay
<diplo> Lob one my way popey if you like, can transfer moolah :)
<popey> I'll dig them all out a bit later
 * popey gets a post-it note
<diplo> hah, its funny we're all technical yet post it notes are on my desk too :)
<popey> I don't have to alt-tab to see them :)
<diplo> Similar to me, bottom of my screen
<foobarry> is there a reliable UK centric service that would show which platforms a film is availabel to stream from?
<popey> foobarry: https://www.justwatch.com/uk
<foobarry> brilliant, thanks
<popey> np
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> https://www.justwatch.com/uk/movie/hacksaw-ridge
<foobarry> but https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/Hacksaw_Ridge?id=RfeKIO2VBsI
<foobarry> doesn't show the googles
<foobarry> not sure if i'll watch it anyway, mel gibson seems obsessed with graphic violence
<foobarry> haven't seen his other directed films as a result
<popey> the justwatch url you posted doesn't show it on google play
<popey> oh, that's what you said :)
<Seeker`> popey: Did you know that The Google Effects and Draw apps will no longer work after April 25, 2017?
<diddledan> "will"
<diddledan> I think the correct term is "won't, since" not "will not, after" because the date is in the past
<diddledan> although, please don't ever say "it does this since ages"
<diddledan> since requires a finite datetime and cannot be used on an open-ended timescale
<popey> Thanks Seeker`
<popey> Theeker.
<Seeker`> Look around you!
<diddledan> Seeker`: ok, if you insist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBaVwwuErmU
<Seeker`> I remember the night, scratching at my door. furry small and white, I shook you by the paw
<popey> MEDIBOT
<acemastr> multipass?
<diddledan> that poem makes me think of funnybones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZYsUOZmRwM
<foobarry> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions are supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04). Ubuntu !flavors may have different support durations, check their release notes for information.
<Nokaji> So, ... how unsafe is it to use 'steam' on ubuntu, these days - would I be throwing away all my security? etc
<brobostigon> i have never managed to get steam working, never mind play anything through it, lolz.
<brobostigon> so i couldnt say.
<Nokaji> okie, thanks for your contribuition, nonetheless
<Nokaji> It workks for me fine in Win10 or at least it did, I rarely use it
<brobostigon> ah ok.
<dogmatic69> been having an issue with sound quality and Java. It degrades slowly over say 10 seconds. If I change the sound settings "play through" it works for a while again
<dogmatic69>  I thought I would try my windows vm but it even happens over the windows VM.
<dogmatic69>  I can listen to spotify web player and rythm box all day without issues
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-31
<brobostigon-one> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon-one> morning
<diplo> Are there two of you brobostigon-one ?
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon-one> diplo: yes, i have irssi running on my google compute engine vm, as i am having problems with irssi from my bitfolk vps.
<diplo> aha :)
<brobostigon-one> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-01
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon-one> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<diddledan> I don't know what to think about this:
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nN0r81uD/
<diddledan> CORS is cross-origin-resource-sharing in the web world
<diplo> Finding it hard to read on there, but I get where you're going with it
<diddledan> ooh. I like the look of this: https://www.hetzner.de/us/hosting/produkte_vserver/private-cloud
<diplo> Disks are a bit slow, but everything else looks good
<diddledan> when you consider ovh's competition: https://www.ovh.co.uk/private-cloud/
<diddledan> Â£421+VAT/mo
<diddledan> rackspace don't list prices so that'll be a lot
<diplo> yeah not looked myself but as you put it that way... still are 7200 disks going to be worthwhile doing something like that on, I don't know
<diplo> But yeah still cheap
<BigRedS> Anyone in here using Hacker's Keyboard on Androud, with the 'compact US' layout, and found a way to enter a forward-slash (/)?
<diplo> Nope, but interested in it..
<diddledan> a hacker's keyboard without a slash?!
<BigRedS> yeah, apparently
<BigRedS> it's got it on the full-on layout, but my fat thumbs aren't compatible with that
<diddledan> :-)
<CoderEurope> Are there any computer certified courses I can do to improve my linux on cv ?
<diddledan> if you don't mind going to windows for your gaming delights, all the sonic the hedgehogs are on cheap at humble store: https://www.humblebundle.com/store/promo/sonic-weekend/
<CoderEurope> diddledan, Whats your best Linux game on that store ?
<diddledan> the windows insider world is currently firefighting right now: https://twitter.com/donasarkar/status/870398131141201920
<diddledan> seems a slew of internal-only builds got released unintentionally which bricks devices because they're not meant for installation by the public
<popey> oops
<diddledan> looks like normals are getting them too: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/117407/microsoft-accidentally-delivers-insider-builds-pcs-phones
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't know that ms still had a phone division... i thought that was dead now
<MarkDude> Almost. They are trying to get all their things on Android and iPhone when possible.
 * MarkDude saw a friend with a Windows Phone the other day, took a moment to sink in... :D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-02
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> wiped my phone for android 7.1.2 so much pain restoring everything :(
<foobarry> but, like the windows bitrot, its so fast after a reinstall
<foobarry> hang on...malware infested apps, bitrot, no security updates for old versions....is android windows?
<popey> foobarry: when I switched a phone to 7.1.2 I just restored everything from the 'cloud'
<foobarry> ah i didn't know if that was a cyangoen/lineage feature or google
<popey> google
<foobarry> its never really worked for me anyway
<foobarry> i think my original htc buggered it up
<diplo> I may try lineage on my phone, I was about to replace it as the screen had something wrong with it, but it appears to have resolved itself now
<foobarry> i've had a repeated wifi issue where my wifi keeps crapping out constantly
<diplo> Since the upgrade?
<foobarry> pre-
<popey> whee, just updated my OPX to latest nightly
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> hi
<diplo> Well will try and give it a go then
<diplo> hi
<brobostigon> hi
<foobarry> just realised i lost all my text messages
<diplo> hah, I was going to ask about that.., titanium and adb backup can do that for you I believe for future ref
<diplo> I don't really care myself
<foobarry> just accessing my TB from usb otg
<foobarry> hmmm titanium doesn't have messages backed up
<diplo> Should do when you backup data to xml, had options to select sms etc - wonder if yours wasn't checked or you didn't run that option
<foobarry> i have a nandroid backup too but do i really need those old text messages anyway?
<foobarry> my phone is a lot faster but maybe because i haven't installed facebook yet
<diplo> I never use the facebook app anymore, just a browser
<brobostigon> more battery and resource afficiant in comparison using it in a browser.
<diplo> 100%, apart from they've start adding a banner saying it's faster with their app, when you close the banner it doesn't resize :)
<diplo> A lot of my friends have started copying me, I wonder if they're noticing in the up turn of people doing this
<brobostigon> like if you hit the messenger button in a browser too, it refers to opening the play store to the messenger app.
<diplo> yeah, you can select browse as desktop and it sort of works, but not great. I rarely get messenger messages now as most people know I don't use it.
<awilkins> My other half installed the FB app on a phone she's been raving about the battery life of for weeks (Huwaei P9)
<awilkins> She'd uninstalled it by end of day because it ate 50% of her battery in about 4 hours
<awilkins> I found it annoying that the reason they removed XMPP support from their chat servers was to promote that piece of ... ahem
<awilkins> I can only conclude it's either spyware or Zuck's personal bitcoin mining pool
<foobarry> doesn't the app have nicer integration such as hold on comment brings up a menu etc
<foobarry> i am annoyed at the "data" space taken up by the app though
<foobarry> also which android browsers reflow text on zoom? only opera i've found so far
<foobarry> why wouldn't everyone want this?
<diddledan> foobarry: there's different processes involved. reflowing text is for when the base font-size changes. most browsers do zooming where the font size remains static and the canvas is enlarged so that it is larger than the viewport - this method preserves everything in correct proportion to each other as the designer wanted. resizing the font breaks most designs.
<diddledan> zooming by adjusting the canvas scale factor is a lot more energy efficient, too, so on mobile devices it is the preferred method because resizing the font and reflowing requires a lot of computation to layout the page as the font changes
<diplo> I removed Chrome because it used up vast amount of space on my phone, use Ghostery currently but may try opera
<diplo> I've got a friend (client?) who has a Buffalo TS-XL027 Nas box like this
<diplo> http://www.buffalo-technology.de/en/products/storage-devices/business-nas/terastationtm/archive/ts-wx-terastation-duo/
<diplo> It's a bit rubbish, he'd like to replace it... I'd like to replace it with something I can ssh into/rsync from. but I think he'd like to have something like the buffalo, can you guys recommend anything
<diplo> I've mentioned just getting a microserver and set that up instead
<TwistedLucidity> A microsever would knock that thing into a cocked hat. I think they might still have their cashback offer on as the unload the old models
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: https://www.serversdirect.co.uk/p/1039108/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen8-intel-celeron-g1610t-dual-core-.30ghz-mb-4-x-non-hotplug-
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, this one is only Â£113 after the cashback https://www.serversdirect.co.uk/p/1107184/hpe-proliant-ml10-gen9-g4400-dual-core4gb-noon-hot-plug-entry-level-tower-server-
<diplo> I just think they like the option of administering it themselves I guess
<diplo> I'm tempted to buy another tbh, mines old.. all they do is host files, nothing else though
<diplo> I'll give him a few options, just never really used any of the others.. I suppose I could stick Freenas on it
<TwistedLucidity> If it's just dumb storage and they don't care much about security, versioning etc; a couple of samba shares would do it.
<diplo> yeah I think I'm going to link him to this and say, buy four 2TB drives to do raid10 or smaller to be honest, they don't have a huge amount of data
<TwistedLucidity> 4TB are only ~Â£120
<TwistedLucidity> For consumer-grade anyway
<diplo> Bit oversized though :)
<diplo> Only a single site estate agent, 5 members of staff
<diddledan> I've thought of a cool new thing to build - FBaaS: Fork Bombs as a Service. you login to the website and it forkbombs itself
<popey> "cool" :)
<foobarry> diplo: depending on budget, then synology are good and run linux underneath
<foobarry> i have a microserver but i'm dreading upgrading
<foobarry> i seem to remember grub issues with booting RAID1 disks
<popey> i just recovered a zfs pool on my microserver
<popey> so relieved
<diddledan> popey: what was it doing (your ZFS)?
<diddledan> phew. I been battling a really simple problem for the past FOUR HOURS! https://github.com/web-animations/web-animations-js/issues/141
<diddledan> "800" !== 800
<diddledan> really crazy simple thing that I couldn't see for want of looking
<zmoylan-pi> if you stare at a problem too long you become blinder to it
<popey> i have a microserver with 5 internal disks and 4 external (in a drive array)
<popey> the array failed catastrophically, just won't power on
<diddledan> damn
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00LN0GX4I/ so i bought a couple of them to attach over usb to get the data off them
<popey> got zfs to see the pool and now am scping the data off it \o/
<diddledan> fingers crossed you don't get more death
<popey> it's just very slow now because those caddys are usb3 but the microserver is usb2
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning everyone :)
<brobostigon> morning knightwise :)
<knightwise> hey brobostigon  how you doin ?
<brobostigon> not bad, going ring shopping with my fiance this afternoon, and you?
<knightwise> Hoooo ! Good luck you :)
<brobostigon> :) ty.
 * knightwise having a day off at home. The sweety is out on a training course 
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> i'm sitting here , sipping tea and installing ubuntu on an old imac
<knightwise> the nerd equivalent of a guys night out
<knightwise> hey awilkins
<knightwise> how are you doing man :)
<awilkins> I'm ok. Bit frayed by all the election shit.
 * awilkins apologises for swearing in a family channel
<knightwise> awilkins: politics .. i know :)
<awilkins> Started watching Tomorrowland (the George Clooney one) with my daughter yesterday. Was nice to have a bit of hope and optimism.
<knightwise> Hmm tv show ?
<knightwise> or a movie ?
<awilkins> Movie, Disney
<awilkins> 'tis on Netflix if you have access to it
<eks> hi
<daftykins> good ol' On Call https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/02/on_call/
<DJones> Sheesh, thats daft
<DJones> I'm waiting for the person who unplugged BA's system to explain what happened in "On Call", and the the person responsible for infrastructure to explain how 1 person was able to bring an internation business to a halt just by unplugging one cable (as seems to be being reported)
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> DJones: I can see you can probably shut a data centre down fairly easily; why the other one didn't take over is the good question
<penguin42> DJones: I know of a few cases of whole data centres losing power, it's not that odd
<DJones> penguin42: I would have thought it'd be quite difficult, given UPS, backup power supplies etc, to take down an entire system, to me, that would suggest really bad management/control, yes "the cleaner" can walk in, unplug something while they hoover etc, but to wipe out an entire system suggests something is basicly wrong
<penguin42> DJones: You'd think so, but the problem is that the UPSs in data centres are much more complex than your home thing
<penguin42> DJones: I think typically you have generator->ups->data centre; the data centres UPSs can typically only do a few minutes which is supposed to be enough to get the generator up
<DJones> I'd hipe they were more complex, unplugging one cable shouldn't bring down a system
<DJones> s/hipe/hope/
<penguin42> DJones: One data centre I used had an outage where a mains spike blew the breaker on the input to the UPS, the UPS cut in but because the generator could see the mains input, the generator didn't bother starting up, so the UPS drained
<penguin42> DJones: An article I was reading a few weeks back said that the automatic transfer switches tend to be a bit paranoid as well; so if they think there's an electrical fault *inside* the datacentre they'll refuse to switch the generator in
<penguin42> DJones: But the possibility if they're saying someone screwed up, I suspect is that they were intending to do some maintanence ON the ups, and somehow screwed up when they were switching the UPS in/out of circuit
<DJones> I can understand that, but presumably when it something so mission critical, they pay people to keep an eye on thingslike this
<penguin42> DJones: You don't have time to react though
<penguin42> DJones: Also the heavy power side of the data centre is specialised enough that most datacentre guys don't directly deal with it, they should know how to start up the generator and/or bypass stuff, but anything more it's call up the serious electrical guys
<penguin42> DJones: Also they said most machines have dual PSUs, which is true, but where are they connected? They're probably both connected to the UPS output (hopefully on different UPS modules if it's large enough)
<penguin42> Damn, I can't find any pictures of 'The Planet's datacentre disaster - they had a UPS explosion that demolished their electrical room - taking 9000 servers offline
<penguin42> (June 2008)
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> -|-
<zmoylan-pi> \
<zmoylan-pi> damn....
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDoh8zQDT38 neat
<daftykins> i'm now in a swanky cottage apartment after being juggled around in my hotel, however it looks like the tilers will finish tomorrow :D
<daftykins> new bathroom is looking ace
<penguin42> daftykins: That's a nice vid; I think some of the Space-X stuff was done with GoPro's as well
<zmoylan-pi> pity it was supposed to be the kitchen... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> barely any room in my house has been untouched now
<daftykins> shame insurance won't cover roof repair :(
<sebsebseb> hi
<penguin42> hey
<sebsebseb> London problems again
<diddledan> wtf london!
<sebsebseb> diddledan: seems thats the thng now to use vechiles to...
<Seeker`> Hope everyone here's ok
<sebsebseb> diddledan: seems thats the thng now to use vechiles to...
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> uh
<sebsebseb> some typing issues
<sebsebseb> I wanted to put probably in response to Seeker`
 * sebsebseb thinks London is a place to try and avoide for the most part now
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much anywhere with crowds
<Seeker`> not really any point trying to avoid places
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<eks> hi
<penguin42> hey
<eks> Happy to be here! anyone knows why Ubuntu phone does not have more updates?
<eks> hi
<daftykins> isn't it dead?
<eks> hi
<daftykins> yeah don't say hi to everyone you see part or join, it's common ;)
<eks> =/
<eks> Do you know if ubuntu phone will have more updates?
<daftykins> well i just asked if it were dead as a project, i've no idea - i think the channel is #ubuntu-touch
<eks> thank you
<diddledan> what are we expecting the enema to be touting tomorrow then?
<diddledan> (Apple)
<zmoylan-pi> iphone 8. this time with no charging port... they charge it at the factory and you just have to make it last till the next iphone...
<zmoylan-pi> the apple pocketwatch for steampunk hispters...
<zmoylan-pi> and the siri speaker
<zmoylan-pi> and just one more thing... the idrone... looks like a halo and hovers over it's owner taking constant selfies...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnnns
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> o/
<ali1234> what was the name of that tool that autogenerates "webapps" from a url?
<daftykins> diddledan?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sorry no idea :(
<diddledan> ali1234: https://www.pwabuilder.com/?
<diddledan> the artist formally known as manifoldjs
<ali1234> it was a command lin eutility
<ali1234> you do like "makeawebapp https://www.gmail.com" and it spits out a .desktop file or a .deb or something
<ali1234> i think i saw it on reddit
<ali1234> like what "chrome --app" does but i think it uses electron
<ali1234> i think this is it https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<jes_>  jamesstanley qweasd
<jes_> ugh
<zmoylan-pi> dibs on his itunes... :-P
<Laney> jes_: you can put username:password as the server password in your IRC client so you don't have to send it to nickserv :-)
<jes_> thanks
<jes_> I'm stuck at trying to change the password now; I think I no longer have access to the email account that was used when I first registered
<zmoylan-pi> irc... the service that outlasts email accounts... :-)
<Laney> I think /msg nickserv set password yournewpassword ?
<Laney> definitely
<Laney> I've had my nickserv account on another network longer than probably anything I still own
<Laney> I wonder if that includes my mobile number
<Laney> got that in around 2000
<Laney> actually I found my school ID from year 7 recently - that's a little bit older ...
<jes_> ah that does work, thanks
<jes_> the help text was all talking about a verification code from an email address
<diddledan> daftykins: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blep/ you're welcome
<davmor2> diddledan: still amazingly sad links I see ;)  Nothing changes here then.....
<zmoylan-pi> if you're feeling sad i just pop along to https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/ to remind me why i'm best... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nice
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-31
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> good morn :>
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> a client called me over just to type a license key into their own android email app yesterday :(
<daftykins> there is no longer any hope
<zmoylan-pi> did they hand you the email you sent them with the instructions and licence key because that makes it /funner/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> they got the email with the code direct yeah :)
<daftykins> they were on holiday in Spain at the time, i'd sent a message saying "you'll need to paste that key in from the email"
<daftykins> next day i get "it's still asking for the key?"
<daftykins> so i respond with "please see last message"
<daftykins> and then on arriving back in the island asked me to come over due to an 'email problem' which ended up being still the same thing
<diddledan> VoD adverts for erectile dysfunction medication for the win!
<diddledan> they know me so well, it's scary
<daftykins> you never could keep those sandcastles up
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> morn \o
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> Wondering if anyone can help me out with some terminology as I am not sure I am getting the right search results. Assume we are running in a load-balanced setup of 3 servers and on each one is a little daemon process that is going to periodically wake up and do something.
<Gargoyle> But I only want ONE of them to perform the action each time, not all three.
<Gargoyle> If this was a single multi-threaded process, it would just be a case of locking. Is there a fancy name for it when done across multiple programs (and multiple machines).
<Gargoyle> nm. Got myself on the right track now. Sometimes just asking the question is enough to reset your thinking! :D
<daftykins> sure can be!
<diddledan> a developer conference focusing on software??! what shenanigans is this?? https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/31/mark-gurman-wwdc-2018-preview/
<diddledan> quote from headline "Gurman: WWDC 2018 to Have Software Focus"
<daftykins> so there won't be new horrible hardware?
<daftykins> i was being asked which iPhone to get by an elderly client yesterday, i felt so dirty
<diddledan> haha. that dirt doesn't rub off, either!
<daftykins> i said they were announcing new ones so don't buy yet :P
<zmoylan-pi> recommend an android nokia... a name they'll be happy with :-)
<daftykins> they have crap specs
<daftykins> actually steered someone who had that exact thinking away from the Nokia and suggested a moto g6 Play instead
<zmoylan-pi> the low end ones do. i'm looking for an nokia 2 myself for it's humongus battery
<daftykins> 4000 vs 3000 mAh battery, 32GB vs. 16GB, 3GB RAM vs. 2GB, yada yada
<daftykins> well this was looking at the 5, a 16GB of anything android just isn't wise imo
<ali1234> now that ubuntu uses a swap file by default, how do i configure the size of it?
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the general rule of linux swap fules was to let linux handle it for 99% of occasions?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-02
<Knight_Wrk> hey everyone
<zmoylan-pi> hey
<Knight_Wrk> he zmoylan-pi
<mycha> y
<brobostigon> evening boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> salutations mammals o/
<daftykins> 'ey up
<DJones> annihilator: How do
<DJones> How do
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: and what about us birds?
<zmoylan-pi> a nod of respect to any ex dinosaurs haunting the channel...
<DJones> Define dinosaurs? Growingup with a ZX80 and Commodore 64 probably makes me a dinosaur :)
<zmoylan-pi> i was more leaning towards all modern birds been descendents of dinosaurs... but 8-bit fans are included too...
 * penguin42 probably counts as both
<zmoylan-pi> dinosaurÂ²
 * brobostigon wrote a dinosaur into his D&D game, as the final boss monster, hopefully it wont kill everyone, hehe, :D
<penguin42> that depends how hungry it is
<brobostigon> exactly, :D
<zmoylan-pi> make it a vegetarian dinosaur... but a very stompy one... :-)
<brobostigon> thats boring, :(
<zmoylan-pi> or a stegasaurus so someone can be thagamized... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> 2d6 claw damage, 2d4 bite damage.
<zmoylan-pi> 1d8 halitosis... 1d20 tail... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> that'll teach some smart arse for trying to flank the dinosaur from behind... :-)
<brobostigon> hehe, :)
<DJones> flanking a dinosiur from behind, eeew, I'll wait for it to break wind
<brobostigon> they are on a planet called abydos, in the mountains outside a village called blerontin, :)
<penguin42> hmm odd
<penguin42> I've got a form to return and it's got a postal address on the form and I've got a prepaid that envelope that's the same except for the last few digits of postcode
<daftykins> must've typo'd it, in the past i've confirmed addresses with the post office
<penguin42> I suspect it might be multiple divisions of the same company in the same building and they got themselves unique postal codes
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * DJones notes that mornng was around 5:30am when he walked the dog, before going back to bed :)
 * penguin42 notes he went to bed at about 4am and has no dog
