#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-06
<brousch> geez, the crazy stuff people do to get django to run http://www.defuze.org/archives/262-hosting-a-django-application-on-a-cherrypy-server.html
<snap-l> Good evening
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/78/detail/
<rick_h_> good to know
<snap-l> I think this is logging, but not sure.
<snap-l> Yep, tape is rolling. :)
<snap-l> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/06/%23ubuntu-us-mi.html#t01:00 <- Logs for the meeting
<snap-l> greg-g: Are you free?
<brousch> figures. i was just about to get some actual stuff done ;)
<rick_h_> that says monday though
<snap-l> brousch: We run this channel like a business
<rick_h_> oh, damn time conversion
<snap-l> rick_h_: Welcome to UTC
<snap-l> brousch: As soon as someone gets into the groove, it's meeting time.
<brousch> ut oh, feerless leader is absent?
<snap-l> Not sure
<brousch> snap-l: take command
<brousch> carpe gregum
<snap-l> OK, since I'm the only person with a name that rhymes with Greg, I think we'll get started.
<snap-l> I'm sure he'll have an "oh crap" moment shortly.
<snap-l> Agenda item #1: We're up for reapproval
<snap-l> I know greg-g sent out some notices to the mailing list about the re-approval
<snap-l> He had a section in there on how to help out
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports
<snap-l> We need to have the reports of the various events, so that the loco council knows that we're an active and vibrant team
<snap-l> Which, we are, but we need to show it.
<snap-l> So, if you have some spare cycles, please help fill these out
<brousch> link to call for help https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mi/2011-May/001412.html
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports
<snap-l> Thanks, brousch
<snap-l> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/
<snap-l> We need to have our application in before the release of Oneiric
<snap-l> (onomatopaeia)
<snap-l> We'll likely need to meet about this next meeting.
<brousch> how far back are we going?
<snap-l> Team was last approved in 2007, iirc.
<brousch> i don't think west existed before 2009
<snap-l> So I'd assume everything that's happened between now and then
<snap-l> brousch: If you'd take charge of putting the formation of the west side, and any events, that would be great.
<brousch> yep
<snap-l> Awesome.
<snap-l> Any questions about the re-approval?
<snap-l> 3...
<snap-l> 2....
<snap-l> 1......
<snap-l> OK, moving on, then
<snap-l> MUG Meeting on June 14th
<snap-l> Spoke with Jim McQuillan about this. He'd like to get something up on the MUG site tomorrow at the latest.
<snap-l> so, what events do we have planned?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I believe you're on the hook for PPAs, correct?
<brousch> I hope someone else is actually here right now, because I haven't a clue
<rick_h_> snap-l: yep, I'll have a talk on that ready
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome.
<brousch> ppas, good idea
<snap-l> Did anyone else have something to talk about for the MUG meeting?
<rick_h_> other than that, calling out a bunch of bumms :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah
<brousch> wish i could make it for video editing
<snap-l> Blazeix, widox, waldo323_ ?
<snap-l> I proposed talking about Natty if we needed some talks
<snap-l> mostly Unity, though
<snap-l> Speak now, or get drafted. ;)
<brousch> audio editing, but i think you did last mug meeting
<snap-l> brousch: A few meetings ago
<brousch> a tour of the various spin-offs would be good: kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu studio
<snap-l> OK, putting greg-g down for explaining why he's the model of a modern major general.
<snap-l> He'll be singing the entire song, verbatim. ;)
<snap-l> Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSGWoXDFM64
<snap-l> OK, a better question would be who all os going to be at the MUG meeting on June 14th?
<snap-l> o/
<brousch> It feels lonely today
<snap-l> Yeeah
<snap-l> Maybe tonight isn't the best night for this?
<brousch> :(
<brousch> what's left?
<snap-l> Last thing on the agenda is decommissioning the Google Calendar.
<snap-l> And I know Wolfger had a dog in this
<brousch> rename it the east michigan open source events calendar
<snap-l> UNfortunately, he's in Germany right now
<snap-l> That would make sense
<snap-l> and then use the Ubuntu loco calendar for just loco events.
<brousch> where's the loco calendar we should subscribe to?
<snap-l> one sec.
<brousch> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical ?
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical
<snap-l> Yep, that's the one
<snap-l> First off, if anyone has any issues with that calendar, please let us know
<brousch> ok, i subscribed
<brousch> i have no idea if anyone else outside of detroiland is actually subscribed to that calendar
<snap-l> Check with greg-g to see if you have access to create events on that calendar
<brousch> i can make loco events
<snap-l> or rather, to get access if you don't have access to create...
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Anything else?
<snap-l> I'm going to leave the meeting open, just in case someone else shows up
<brousch> we need to vote on the punishment for missing the meeting
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> OK, calling the meeting adjourned.
<snap-l> Thanks everyone for coming out that did come out
<snap-l> I'm pretty sure we'll be talking about some of these things tomorrow.
<rick_h_> night
<greg-g> my apologies all, I was in a canoe, and it tipped, slowing our return home :/
<snap-l> Ouch, sorry to hear that
<snap-l> You OK?
<snap-l> I mean, other than the obvious that you're able to be on IRC> :)
<greg-g> yeah, all good.
<greg-g> I hate swimming through lake weeds though, I freak out a bit
<greg-g> :/
<greg-g> lemme read the scrollback in a minute
<snap-l> greg-g: Feeling things between your legs in murky water is always a bit freaky
<snap-l> even if a minnow is just nibbling at your toes, it feels like you're being eaten alive.
<greg-g> weeds are the worst, feels like you are being grabbed onto/pulled down
 * greg-g shudders
<greg-g> so yeah, I'll be at MUG
<snap-l> greg-g: Cool.
<greg-g> what could i talk about.... any requests?
<greg-g> other than signing a song
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> Oh, you're still on the hook for that
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> don't think just because you tipped a canoe means you're scott-free.
<snap-l> What would you be willing to talk about?
<snap-l> Governance?
<snap-l> Figured we could talk a little about what the loco teams do
<greg-g> hmmm, yeah
<greg-g> I could do a little "Who we are/what we do/why we do it"
<snap-l> How we fit in the grand scheme of loco-dom?
<greg-g> yep yep
<snap-l> That would be awesome. :)
<greg-g> cool, I'll work on that :)
<snap-l> So that's three things
<snap-l> I'm wondering if we can get some other folks to participate.
<greg-g> I hope so :/
<greg-g> s/hope/hoped/
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding. :)
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> Well, we can still ask around tomorrow morning
<greg-g> I hoped Amy's message to the list would have spurred some more response
<greg-g> yeah, def
<snap-l> and if something comes up and someone feels the need to help out, we can always fit them in
<greg-g> poke _stink_ smoser waldo323_ to talk at MUG :)
<snap-l> I was wondering if we could get JOhn Gruber to talk about Lernid, but I'm not sure he's a loco member.
<snap-l> John S. Gruber
<greg-g> he's on the mailing list, but not LP
<snap-l> hurm
<greg-g> counts for me :)
<snap-l> Want to ask him if he'd be interested?
<snap-l> I see LErnid as being one of those loco-ish things.
<greg-g> oh, definitely, and yeah, I can
<snap-l> Awesome. Thank you.
<greg-g> I'm back to using taskwarrior, so I should remember to do it tomorrow :)
<snap-l> Heh
<_stink_> i love to talk at MUG... but Tuesday are simply a no-go for me.
<_stink_> er
<_stink_> i'd
<snap-l> _stink_: That's OK, just cancel your previous engagement
<snap-l> we'll understand
<_stink_> shove the kid back up there
<greg-g> no hard feelings here if you have to cancel on others
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> They might not, but they're not your real friends.
<_stink_> :P
<greg-g> alright, time for bed
<greg-g> long day tomorrow
<greg-g> g'night all!
<greg-g> and thanks much, snap-l, for taking the reigns
<snap-l> np, glad I cold help out.
<greg-g> reins, I guess
<snap-l> Nah, reign is fine. ;)
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> king for an hour
<snap-l> Good night!
<greg-g> snap-l: you might appreciate this. I cooked up this weekly status report thingy: http://grossmeier.net/taskreports/daily.html
<rick_h_> morning party people
<rick_h_> so can someone do me a favor and pull the internt plug for the day?
<rick_h_> at least until the apple beer goggles fade off
<greg-g> oh, today is WWDC?
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> ugh
<rick_h_> and E3 starting
<greg-g> yep, closing gwibber soon then, I guess
<rick_h_> my poor google reader is shaking in a corner
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> yea, it's totally unprepared for the flood of "magic" coming its way
<rick_h_> man, starting off the day blown away http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/01/rest-api-authentication-schemes
<rick_h_> one of those "duh! that's brilliant, and I'd never thought of that"
<rick_h_> or maybe I'm just easily impressed on a monday morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2011/06/the-good-the-bad-the-ugly-of-rest-apis.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oreilly%2Fnews+%28O%27Reilly+News+and+Commentary%29
<rick_h_> api fun for a monday
<snap-l> http://adamjury.com/2011/ignite-slides-from-pepcon/ <- A short run-down of a presentation given to the Print and ePublishing 2011 conference.
<snap-l> If even a handful of  publishers get this right, I think it could be remarkable.
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> handful that don't already get it, rather.
<greg-g> that was a good preso, thanks, snap-l
<brousch> there's the slackjaw greg-g
<greg-g> brousch: you missed my excuse!
<greg-g> I was canoeing with Carrie and we, well, uh, tipped, and that kind of slowed down our return back home.
<brousch> tipped? is that what we're calling it now?
<greg-g> capsized
<brousch> at least it was for fun reasons
<greg-g> yeah, even though I *hate* swimming through lake weeds/lillies. Those things scare the crap out of me.
<brousch> scare?
<brousch> i find them unpleasant, but not scary
<rick_h_> my wife hates lakes
<rick_h_> just for that, "it's slimy OMG!!!!"
<rick_h_> ummm, we're not exactly riddled with beaches around here that aren't lakes dear
<brousch> i'll take a lake over the ocean
<rick_h_> oh forget that, love me some ocean
<brousch> salty, shark-infested, way too big
<rick_h_> best thing of my cancun trip was getting a snorkel set during a trip
<rick_h_> used that stuff all week just swimming off the resort beach
<brousch> sharks
<snap-l> Yeah, the lakes you just have perceived dangers (slimy weeds)
<rick_h_> though did catch myself out a bit farther than I thought I should be a couple of times
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, I'm abnormally afraid of it when I swim through it. Freaks the hell out of me.
<snap-l> the ocean has things like jellyfish
<rick_h_> oh mean, I wonder if I still have that picture
<rick_h_> I got stung by a little jelly
<brousch> i am not comfortable around any wild animal that is large enough to kill me
<brousch> uncivilized
<greg-g> brousch: I blame it on the fact that I drowned as a kid (in our pool in Texas, when I was around 5, fell with my tricycle into the pool. Heart stopped beating/breathed in water. Luckily mom is a nurse and dad worked in an ER)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ouch man
<snap-l> greg-g: That'll do it
<brousch> greg-g: but that's a pool!
<snap-l> brousch: That's unadulterated fear
<snap-l> no child is ready for that.
<brousch> true
<greg-g> yeah, and I'm a-ok with pools now, because I can see everything/everyone/the bottom. But lakes kinda freak me out
<brousch> scarred for life
<greg-g> yep
<snap-l> I remember diving into a wave pool without any life preserver
<rick_h_> that'd suck, I love the water
<brousch> i was always afraid of giant snapper turtles in our lake
<snap-l> or tube.
<rick_h_> I can't imagine being afraid of it
<greg-g> I hope not to pass the fear on to my kids
<brousch> greg-g: are you trying to tell us something?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, we've been taking our little guy to the lake for swim lessons. Awesome to see an 18mo just fearless
<snap-l> the alternating goung under water / getting a gulp of air before getting duked again was not pleasent.
<greg-g> snap-l: ugh, that sucks. you feel so powerless
<greg-g> brousch: well...
<rick_h_> greg-g: so the dunking last night wasn't fun eh?
<rick_h_> was it canoe/kayak?
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, though luckily after a while I could touch bottom
<snap-l> and eventualy I made it to shallower water
<greg-g> brb, one sec
<snap-l> had a splitting headache, though, from all of the adrenaline
<brousch> my son dislikes lake michigan because the waves are so loud
<brousch> oh man, i just realized we get to go swimming this year without a diaper or swimmy diaper
<rick_h_> woo!
<jjesse> looking forward to that
<snap-l> W00t
<rick_h_> that's the biggest thing, right now I need a sherpa to pack up and go to the beach
<snap-l> jjesse: You still swim with a diaper? :)
<jjesse> hahah
<jjesse> for our little guy
<jjesse> we got him a suit w/ floaties built into it for vacation
<rick_h_> awesome
<greg-g> back to your question, brousch, yes, we're expecting :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: canoe
<brousch> ohmy
<greg-g> December-ish
<brousch> congrats!
<rick_h_> what?!
<greg-g> thankya :)
<rick_h_> what did I miss here?
<brousch> you missed his subtle hint
<rick_h_> well that reads like joking
<rick_h_> for realz greg-g ?
<greg-g> yep, we're about 13 weeks in
<rick_h_> DUDE! congrats!
<greg-g> thanks! :)
<rick_h_> man, everyone it these days it seems
<rick_h_> you kids :P
<greg-g> we've been slowly telling people
<greg-g> hah
<jjesse> congrats greg-g
<rick_h_> greg-g: definitely understand. That waiting to make sure all was cool was killer
<rick_h_> let me know when you guys want to practice, I'll bring the boy over :P
<snap-l> greg-g: That's awesome! Congratulations!
<widox> greg-g: nice, congrats!
<snap-l> http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg06464.html
<snap-l> Apparently since the Apache OOo announcement, people are donating much more to the Document Foundation
<greg-g> rick_h_: that, actually, would be fun
<greg-g> thanks snap-l widox :)
<rick_h_> Soon we'll have UH:CHC with BabyHackerSpace
<greg-g> BbabyHackerSpace!
<ColonelPanic001> why are we congratulating greg-g?
<rick_h_> we'll bring in all the kids and let them go
<ColonelPanic001> I missed it in the backlog
<jjesse> ColonelPanic001 they are expecting
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: there's going to be a little-greg running around (well, crawling) in December
<ColonelPanic001> I'll hold my congrats until it's confirmed he's born with an awesome beard.
<jjesse> probablly not doing much in decembmer except eating, sleeping and pooping
<ColonelPanic001> I kid. Congrats, greg.
<ColonelPanic001> (lol "kid")
<greg-g> jjesse: good point
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: thanks buddy
<brousch> lots and lots of pooping
<jjesse> can you imagine if the kid comes w/ greg-g beard?
<jjesse> that would be awesome
<ColonelPanic001> I'm hoping
<brousch> i had to resent my droid. now it's trying to download 50 programs simultaneously
<brousch> this won't end well
<greg-g> so, the old wives tales, and Carrie's mom, who knew Carrie was pregnant before we told her we were trying (and before we knew), says it is a girl
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I had 3 brothers, dad had 3 sisters
<rick_h_> so I thought I was doomed, the rule was I was allowed to call it a "he" until we knew otherwise
<rick_h_> everyone make girl jokes through the first several months
<rick_h_> ended up a boy :)
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> so I say, think happy thoughts, talk to the little guy and let him know he's a he...and hope for the best
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> don't know about you, but I don't know how to do girls, my mom wore a dress twice in her life
<rick_h_> so I was deathly afraid
<greg-g> jjesse: oh, man, I missed your congrats, and didn't say thank you. Thanks buddy!
<brousch> we're gonna need a playpen at the next ubuntu michigan meeting
<greg-g> rick_h_: hah. I can be ok with them. WHen I was a camp counselor I most lead the girl groups
<smoser> greg-g, i can talk about something... tomorrow. planning on attending. but dont want to sign up for more than 10-15 minutes.
<rick_h_> smoser: that'd rock. I think we're just doing loco hosted lightning talks kind of thing
<rick_h_> so that'd be perfect, just eat some time
<smoser> whats the rest of the meeting ?
<smoser> is there other stuff ?
<rick_h_> no, Ubuntu Loco take over
<rick_h_> we're sponsoring the meeting and just presenting from the group, so some natty stuff, I'll cover some PPA stuff
<rick_h_> doesn't have to be ubuntu, just the general idea was for the loco to raise the $$ to fund and take over a meeting
<smoser> yes, i knew that.
<smoser> i can talk a bit on what Ubuntu Server is doing this cycle.
<greg-g> smoser: yeah, 10-15 is perfect
<greg-g> that topic would be great, smoser, thanks
<snap-l> THank you, smoser
<snap-l> BTW: it's the 14th, not tomorrow. :)
<smoser> oh.
<smoser> wow.
<smoser> i would have been there otmorrow
<smoser> :)
<snap-l> smoser: YOu would have, and we would have missed your talk. ;)
<snap-l> OTOH, someone else would have had a great talk on Ubuntu Server this cycle
<snap-l> And I'm sure that the automotive engineers of tomorrow meeting would have been that much better for it
<smoser> s/great/"great"/
<snap-l> (or whatever they have that evening)
<snap-l> No quotes needed.
<greg-g> (emailed the Lernid guy about presenting at MUG)
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome
<snap-l> Thanks, greg-g
<greg-g> thank you, taskwarrior :)
<snap-l> I'm going to send the MUG board a list of what'll be presented.
<snap-l> (that which is already confirmed)
<greg-g> snap-l: I have PPA:rick, Server:Scott, Unity:You, LoCo:Me
<snap-l> Yep.
<brousch> no jcastro? but he's our rock star!
<rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/using-google-music-manager-ubuntu-made-easy ok that's kind of cool
<_stink_> greg-g: congrats!!
<jcastro> no I am doing washlug this month already!
<jcastro> I get a bye!
<rick_h_> _stink_: we had our first case of me getting in trouble for bringing home the boy too dirty: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AvBuA3IBaPnebjWcdSHkuA?feat=directlink
<rick_h_> evidently there are limits when she puts the boy in a shite shirt
<_stink_> gah, the chance to sit in a huge tire trumps wardrobe
<_stink_> rick_h_: so you guys are doing swim lessons?
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, we did them last year and just signed up for this year
<_stink_> ah, cool
<rick_h_> there's a pub beach just up the street that does them as part of the community program stuff
<_stink_> we did that for a 6 week deal - it was ok... the water was friggin' freezing
<_stink_> ah nice
<rick_h_> yea, we went on mem. day and it was chilly
<rick_h_> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OdUmPhPc_IJGzx6qjcbctw?feat=directlink
<rick_h_> but sometimes you don't need to go in the water for fun
<snap-l> jcastro: No bye. no bye
<snap-l> you come, give presentation
<jcastro> how long does it have to be?
<jcastro> do I have to do unity?
<rick_h_> snap-l:  is doing unity :P
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/2ngaXSXdVRipSfzdqvEP/
<greg-g> _stink_: thanks, buddy! :)
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I'll take care of Unity / Natty
<rick_h_> jcastro: do some ubuntu one stuff, you've been chatting about that recently
<rick_h_> show off something using the api?
<snap-l> jcastro: I know you're probably burned out already.
<jcastro> so what should I do?
<rick_h_> photo app, etc
<jcastro> oh, U1 would be good
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I can do that
<jcastro> sign me up for that
<rick_h_> yea, easy, demo, and can be impressive
<snap-l> OK, awesome.
<rick_h_> and we can try to get some loco renewal points for showing off relevent "talk points" for this cycle :)
<snap-l> Ubuntu One, Mark 2. ;)
<greg-g> jcastro: doesn't have to be long, we're looking at 15ish minutes
<greg-g> rick_h_: heh :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: we all know we're part marketing arm heh
<greg-g> 'tis true
<brousch> snap-l: the mud meeting info on the calendar does not have a location
<jcastro> it's not marketing, it's enablement!
<jcastro> :)
<jcastro> "hello, my name is rick, and today I will be going over vim and window management with vim."
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, it does
<snap-l> on the event itself, it does.
<brousch> hm, must not transfer to the ical
<snap-l> Unfortunately it's not in ical.
<snap-l> *sigh*
<rick_h_> jcastro: come on, I'm doing PPA's and I don't even use them any more so :P
<snap-l> filing a bug
<brousch> and no link to the event page
<jcastro> how's that arch working out?
<rick_h_> jcastro: sticking with it so far
<jcastro> it was the buzz of UDS
<rick_h_> it's give/take. Enough good I'm going forward
<jcastro> everytime someone said somethign you didn't like in a session
<rick_h_> has it's downside for sure
<jcastro> you went "that's it, I AM SWITCHING TO ARCH!"
<rick_h_> hah, awesome
<rick_h_> I just want to be woo'd by my distro :P
<rick_h_> Ubuntu doesn't open the door for me any more, it's a stale relationship
<jcastro> why not debian?
<jcastro> you feel more debianish to me
<greg-g> rick_h_: stale is also stable :)
<greg-g> yeah, that's what I would have thought as well
<rick_h_> because I need some newer packages I used to get from PPA's
<greg-g> rick == debian
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h_> and so it's a bit trickier to add
<rick_h_> though debian was a full option if this arch thing blew up
<rick_h_> I think that's the path, ubuntu->arch->debian->ubuntu
<rick_h_> figure I'll be back in 3 releases
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> i love that the failure map is already drawn
<brousch> the meeting ends at 9pm? is that when people go home or when they head out to the afterparty?
<jcastro> rick_h_: you should flav-style
<jcastro> LTS only baby
<jrwren> jcastro: i pulled a pint glass out of my cupboard last night and I realized that you've been married for a year last week. Happy Aniversary.
<jcastro> jrwren: heh thanks
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/793557
<rick_h_> jcastro: I was doing that, ran lucid up until my upgrades borked
<snap-l> Can I get some "Amens" on that link?
<rick_h_> brousch: we go out to 'dinner' after the meeting
<rick_h_> man, making me launch launchpad ugh
<rick_h_> ok, "Amen"'d
<brousch> so you go out to eat at 9pm?
<rick_h_> brousch: yes
<jrwren> snap-l: may the force be with you
<snap-l> and also with you.
<greg-g> jcastro: oh dang yeah, happy 1 year!
<snap-l> greg-g: I missed the taskwarrior report earlier. That's pretty cool.
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, basically a script that outputs the stuff into both RST and plain text files, emails the plain texts, and build html pages and copies those to my webspace for me.
<greg-g> it is pretty specific/hardcoded for me, but it'd be cool to generalize it and share it with others
<snap-l> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/06/06/1435259/Usenet-With-a-30-Year-Lag
<snap-l> This looks awesome. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be keeping up with reality.
<snap-l> reality = slashdotting. ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I thought that was a neat idea
<snap-l> Hanging out on twit.tv for their announcements.
<snap-l> E3, Apple, etc.
<snap-l> Should be an interesting day.
<brousch> i'm following a twitter feed that publishes darwin's beagle diary 176 years from when he wrote them
<snap-l> Heh
<greg-g> brousch: are they associated with http://twhistory.org/ ?
<brousch> i don't think so
<snap-l> I just bought an air filter from Amazon.
<snap-l> for my car
<_stink_> that's not a book.
<snap-l> because Meijer doesn't stock my filter.
<snap-l> That is because I am living in the future.
<jrwren> what kind of car?
<snap-l> Dodge Caliber
<jrwren> figures.
<snap-l> And O'Reilly Auto Parts doesn't carry anything that doesn't start with Honda or Toyota
<jrwren> Murrays?
<snap-l> Oreilly bought Murrays
<jrwren> oh
<jrwren> napa?
<snap-l> That's just it... one click, and I don't have to care
<jrwren> but you have to wait.
<jrwren> i'm a same day auto maintenance kidn of guy.
<rick_h_> is the filter on fire?
<jrwren> i go buy air filter, oil filter, oil and drive home and change it all.
 * krondor snap-l reminds me I need a new air filter
<krondor> places never have mine either :|
<jrwren> krondor: what do you drive?
<snap-l> I'm watching this Call of Duty XBox thing
<snap-l> and frankly, I don't undertstand the allure of modern warfare games
<snap-l> jrwren: I am too, but I'm not a fan of driving all over town just to get an air filter.
<krondor> jrwren:  jag x-type
<snap-l> And I'm not a fan of paying $15 for someone to drop it into my car at the oil change place.
<jrwren> isn't jag x-type just a fancy taurus?
<snap-l> ouch
<krondor> jrwren: no it's a ford modeo
<krondor> mondeo or whatever
<jrwren> i'm not a fan of paying the oil change place
<rick_h_> I'm not a fan of dealing with disposal, so I pay hte oil change guy
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<jrwren> Washtenaw County FTW, I guess.
<jrwren> just go to AA recycle center and drop it off
<_stink_> air filters are well worth doing yourself
<_stink_> oil... not so sure.
<jrwren> oil... I drop Mobil 1 in for about eh same price  you pay at a change place. Well worth it to me.
<rick_h_> I do mobile 1 now, just pay throgh the nose for it
<jrwren> It doesn't help that oil places always try to scam.
<rick_h_> yea, always love the wipe blades and such upsel
<jrwren> their upsell tactics disgust me.
<rick_h_> sell
<snap-l> Yeah, we noticed a bug on your windshield. For $80 we can replace your windshield for you.
<jrwren> oh, and one time a place trashed my mom's engine. Didn't put the drain plug in well enough... new engine for her. fail.
<rick_h_> yea, I had that happen :/
<rick_h_> thankfully they've got insurance
<krondor> jrwren anyway the mondeo wasn't sold here only EU so i'm not sure if that was why it's not a common filter size
<snap-l> krondor: That would likely be part of it
<snap-l> that and I think the Jag X-Type was more common here because of the ludicrous Ford lease deals.
<krondor> yeah I got a good deal on it 2 years used, drives great and i like the AWD
<snap-l> What the fuck
<snap-l> Is everything now going fullscreen?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> only you'll be able to tile from time to time :P
<snap-l> Seriously, we're going back to the DOS era because apparently the windowed environment is too ADD for people.
<snap-l> Mission Control is what they're calling Spaces now.
<snap-l> Oh hell no
<snap-l> No scroll bars.
<snap-l> I believe 201x is the era where the designers won, and we all get screwed. ;)
<snap-l> I swear, if the next thing they talk about are TSRs, I'll spit fire.
<rick_h_> yea, and 202x is where the doctors get to treat all the finger trauma caused by 10 years of trying to 4 finger cha-cha on your laptop
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<rick_h_> "all you have to do, is find this completely undiscoverable set of methods to input"
<snap-l> Yeah, that's really annoying as hell
<snap-l> I wonder if they're going to have a little card that you can use, like a "quick reference"
<rick_h_> ooh, apps should have a "walkthrough"
<rick_h_> it's so much better than trying to figure it out yourself
<rick_h_> you can spend hours going through short video clips
<rick_h_> on how to use things
<_stink_> "the right way"
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/75568867
<snap-l> I'm also not terribly a fan of the page-flip thing (though it's essentially alt-tab)
<snap-l> (although I'm thinking that I'm a bit of a hypocrite, since keyboard gestures are not discoverable either)
<snap-l> Apparently Unity is forward thinking. ;)
<rick_h_> by 3wk
<snap-l> jrwren: Watching live.twit.tv
<snap-l> They're at least engaging.
<jrwren> meh.
<snap-l> They had a little bit of the feed until the person tho was feeding got yanked.
<jrwren> twit.tv is like morning talk show radio. they just talk and talk and talk about nothing.
<snap-l> Well, they're broadcasters
<snap-l> though it's not that bad
<snap-l> you don't have to pay too much attention
<jrwren> tru
<snap-l> Man, it's getting a little warm, but I'm loving this breeze.
<rick_h_> I was tempted to move outside earlier
<rick_h_> that's the downside of the smaller laptop though, giving up a lot of real estate to work outside
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Wondering if I should close up the house, or not
<rick_h_> when out AC went that was the trick
<rick_h_> open all the windows over night/first thing inthe morning
<rick_h_> and then by 10am close up, shut the shades, etc
<snap-l> Yeah
<brousch> my phone is no longer downloading updates. all i get is download unsuccessful for the last 2 weeks. cleared caches, formatted sd card, reinstalled CM 6 rom. no luck
<brousch> no i can get 1/4 apps to download only if i do it over 3g, not wifi
<krondor> brousch:  which cache?  app caches or when you reinstalled rom did you wipe data and dalvik cache?
<snap-l> brousch: Lovely.
<brousch> krondor: wiped all caches, data and dalvik
<krondor> brousch: hmm, are you behind a proxy when on wifi?  proxy gives me all kinds of fun issues with android.  Doesn't explain the 3/4 on 3g that don't download though I guess..
<krondor> maybe an excuse to goto CM7
<brousch> i am behind a proxy, but never had problems
<brousch> but you know what, work and home are both using comcast internet now
<brousch> could comcast be blocking this?
<krondor> I would be really surprised if they were, I don't use comcast though ... are you using comcast dns?
<brousch> hm, yeah
<brousch> very strange
<krondor> I'd try using google's dns and check your logcat to see why it says the download fails
<brousch> logcat?
<krondor> android has a circular syslog called logcat, you can just run logcat from a shell and get the output, there's apps to track it too or adb
<brousch> now if only i could install an app ;)
<brousch> gonna try CM7
<brousch> krondor: btw, how is the detroit android group going?
<brousch> at least rom manager and clockwork mod recovery work for me now
<krondor> not bad, last meeting had about 9 people.  The first two were just kind of unstructured with no topic.  looks like the next one will have a topic (setting up the android dev environment(s))
<snap-l> Man, I'd like to upgrade to Natty, but I'm not sure what'll break in the process. :)
<rick_h_> when/where is this krondor?
<snap-l> I guess you don't know how deep the water is until you jump in
<krondor> rick_h_:  It's been the 4th tuesday of each month, probably will stay there though there was some discussion of moving it to thursday.  It's at i3Detroit in Ferndale so far.
<brousch> krondor: i'm going to see what mobile monday michigan has to offer before starting the android gr group
<krondor> i3detroit -- http://bit.ly/kxrqhe
<krondor> brousch:  yeah I saw that link you sent me, had an interesting topic.  I need to make it out that way sometime too
<krondor> stupid corporate proxy.  blogspot.com ban was bad enough and now tumblr.com.. yet exploit-db.com is totally fine
<brousch> krondor: it looks like CM7 is working
<krondor> nice and now you have CM7 too sounds like a win
<brousch> strange that 6 would just stop like that
<brousch> well, i tried cm7 a few months ago and it had some weirdness for me. the camera and flash were out of sync
<krondor> what phone?
<brousch> droid1
<krondor> I love these password habit breakdowns off of hacks http://www.troyhunt.com/2011/06/brief-sony-password-analysis.html
<rick_h_> yea, just frightening isn't it
<rick_h_> 99% no non-alphanum
<rick_h_> so single best password rule "pick something that's not a-z09 buddy"
<jrwren> and longer than 10 characters.
<jrwren> longer than 14 characters if windows is going to hash it
<jrwren> because... http://www.golubev.com/files/ighashgpu/readme.htm
<krondor> jrwren:++ rainbowcrack has had a gpu option I'm not sure how that ighashgpu proggie is different/better.  I haven't looked at that in a bit, but the pre-built 14 character ntlm hash has been around for awhile now
<jrwren> ighashgpu isn't even rainbow tables and they are cracking 8char [A-Za-z0-9`~!@#$%^&*()-_=+[]{}\|;',./<>?] paswords in hrs.
<krondor> ah ok
<jrwren> just brute force.
<_stink_> damn, including special chars
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> GPUs are FAST
<jrwren> and this is on 1 system with 1 gpu.
<jrwren> they ahve numbers for 4 GPU
<jrwren> and imagine a small cluster each node with a couple GPU
<jrwren> or a larger cluster on EC2 with the GPU nodes.
<jrwren> you could tear through a huge password file in very short time.
<_stink_> so here's a question i suspect is stupid, and if i thought about it would be more obvious, but you guys are smart
<jrwren> yes, women are beautiful.
<jrwren> wrong question?  oops
<_stink_> i need to think about that one more
<_stink_> if hashed passwords aren't as safe as i might have thought, what are ways other than a security breach somewhere that hashed passwords would be exposed?
<_stink_> that is, if i hear that there is a breack somewhere where i have an account, i need to change all reuses of that password everywhere else *anyway*
<_stink_> and i don't really care whether they hashed it or not
<_stink_> unless i'm overlooking some other way the hash would be exposed.
<jrwren> i don't even know what you just said.
<_stink_> hmm
<_stink_> ok
<jrwren> salted hashes are still pretty secure AFAIK
<_stink_> why do i care whether hashed passwords can be reversed quickly?
<jrwren> oh, i guess you don't have to care.
<jrwren> the harder part is still getting the password file
<_stink_> right, ok.
<_stink_> i'm with you.
<greg-g> oh, snap-l's not here, but damn, his dents, that sucks
<krondor> _stink_:  if you're going on the premise that you will 'know' the place has been compromised and you will need to change that password everywhere else you re-use it.  You don't need to care.
<krondor> but you're assuming you'll know
<_stink_> yeah, i can grant that
<_stink_> ultimately the problem with reuse.
<jrwren> my concern is more as a developer i need to know this crap when i write apps.
<jrwren> because md5(password) is almost always the wrong thing these days
<krondor> failed login lockouts need to happen in more places.  There are so many things that let you try whatever password over and over again sometimes with a slight delay.
<jrwren> and actually.. i guess salted passwords are just as vulnerable since its NOT a rainbow attack
<jrwren> exponential backoff delay has proven to work pretty well.
<jrwren> i'm not aware of too many compromises that have occurred against such an implementation
<krondor> definitely it does, I suppose.  It just seems better to slam the door in someone's face then tell them try again in 30 seconds.  Probably more user issues then legitimately that are annoying though.
<krondor> I think more of these hacks come from sql injection or 0day whatever then brute force though, but still not an excuse to not countermeasure it
<krondor> wwdc looks like apple assuming android features (notifications bar, widgets (well that's a bit different), split keyboard).  oh well good ideas a good idea *copy/paste*
<jcastro> OH MY GOD. IF I BUY THE SONG I DONT HAVE TO SYNC ANYTHING?
<brousch> so what should i do instead of md5(password)?
<rick_h_> bcrypt is one way
<rick_h_> I do sha256 of a salted password
<rick_h_> where each salt is unique per user
<rick_h_> but things like login throttling, https for all auth, and account lock outs are important
<rick_h_> but annoying at times
<snap-l> Oh, I am not a happy camper
<brousch> that's why i prefer a hotel
<snap-l> Bluetooth: Screwed
<snap-l> ATI drivers: screwed (won't install)
<snap-l> my /var/storage directory, which contained things like backups, and my entire, ripped CD collection in FLAC format: erased.
<brousch> natty loves you
<brousch> that's odd
<snap-l> It's bullshit.
<snap-l> It mounted it, and then figured since it was under /var, it should be completely obliterated
<greg-g> fucking eh, man, that sucks
<snap-l> Also not present after upgrade: irssi, postgresql
<rick_h_> postgresql gets moved because it does side by side support
<snap-l> I'm not sure why we offer an upgrade, because frankly it doesn't fucking work.
<rick_h_> so it doesn't "upgrade" it should side by side 8 and 9
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, it didn't even let me do psql
<rick_h_> ah, not sure then
<rick_h_> agree though, I never upgrade and my one time trying it with natty ended in fail
<snap-l> Well, I didn't expect it to mount a drive, only to delete the contents of it
<jrwren> krondor: you understand "exponential backoff" right?
<snap-l> But, that does expose a chink in my armor, which is I never backed that up because it was too big
<rick_h_> yea, +1 for cloud because I've gotten sick of getting a bigger and bigger drive every year
<jrwren> brousch: definitely use a salt.  and yeah... sha256(saltedpassword)
<krondor> jrwren:  yeah, you're delaying login longer with each failure on some exponential growth curve right
<rick_h_> I want to check out bcrypt sometime just because of that work load factor built in
<snap-l> I love too that "development is completed on Natty", which means "we don't want to hear about your stupid problems".
<snap-l> And I'm done.
<rick_h_> http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/
<rick_h_> done being angry? or done in another way?
<krondor> can I go home yet? This day is dragging
<jrwren> blowfish?
<rick_h_> yea, you get to put a 'work' factor into the password gen
<jrwren> interesting call :)
<snap-l> Well, I'm going to run the upgrades to see if something might have been fixed along the way
<snap-l> but if not, I'm dropping back to LTS.
<snap-l> or maybe something else. I'm not sure
<snap-l> am rather hurt right now
 * greg-g hugs snap-l 
<brousch> so it mounted your drive and then deleted it?
<_stink_> there's another topic for MUG!
<greg-g> there should be some way to get the data back, I mean, it didn't write over it, did it?
<_stink_> but really, that totally sucks and i would be livid.
<greg-g> yeah, ditto
<snap-l> No, but I'm not sure what condition the data will be in once recovered
<greg-g> depends
<snap-l> and yes, it mounted it, and then deleted it
<greg-g> I mean, some of those data recovery tools aren't too bad
<snap-l> I'm going to copy off the hidden directory that was on there to another drive
<snap-l> and then see what I can do to get the data off of it
<snap-l> Never thought making a hidden directory would save my ass
<krondor> extundelete may work (assuming it was ext3 or 4)
<snap-l> it's ext4
<snap-l> And that'll teach me to mount something as /var/storage. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I always mount as a subdir in /home/rharding
<greg-g> alright, ehading home time
<greg-g> laters
<rick_h_> even my sdcards and such I manually mount to /home/rharding/tmp
<snap-l> laterness
<rick_h_> have fun greg-g, good day for a ride it looks like
<snap-l> I'd love to know why fglrx isn't working on this machine
<brousch> i mount stuff in /media or /mnt
<jrwren> /var/storage was something special?
<snap-l> it was, and not anymore.
<brousch> it was his cloud
<brousch> and a narwhal ate it
<brousch> and he is left with nappy narwhal farts
<jrwren> I'm still not clear on how having a /var/SOMETHING mount screwed an upgrade.
<snap-l> jrwren: It didn't screw up the upgrade, the upgrade deleted the contents of the directory
<jrwren> how the hell did it do that?
<jrwren> that sounds super fucked.
<snap-l> I would love to know, personally.
<snap-l> What a mess
<brousch> someone buy snap-l a drink
<snap-l> And shotwell decided to try and import every graphic on my hard drive
<snap-l> Not sure why, it just decided to.
<snap-l> I swear, this versionof Ubuntu is going to drive me to a Mac.
<snap-l> And Banshee is haging
<brousch> apple has ubuntuone now
<brousch> appleone
<brousch> ut oh
<krondor> why stream your music when you can push copies of it to all your devices, just make sure you buy that 64 gb iphoneX t house it.
<brousch> i need to give ampache a try. it has android clients
<jrwren> apple has had mobile me for years.
<brousch> but no one uses it
<jrwren> only mac heads.
<jrwren> which i suspect will be true of the new stuff too
<brousch> i'm about 1/3 of the way moved back to linux from osx
<brousch> has snap-l returned yet?
<snap-l> Who is the patron saint of lost causes?
<snap-l> Because I thnk I need an intercession
<brousch> it is Nay
<brousch> she is an old nag
<snap-l> And JoDee just burned three pork chops
<snap-l> Technology can go fuck itself.
<greg-g> :(
<brousch> not good
<brousch> greg-g: is that what you said when your canoe flipped?
<greg-g> that was more "oh sh!t!!"
<greg-g> and then "I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry"
<greg-g> (yeah, it was my fautl)
<brousch> and then, "ewewewewewewe"
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-07
<snap-l> Testing
<rick_h_> still broken
<snap-l> Yeah, unfortunately.
<snap-l> On the plus side, I'm going to move everything to the faster 1TB drive. :)
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> and put the music on the 640GB drive
<greg-g> man, I'm still bummed about your situation
<snap-l> Meh, no worries
<snap-l> There was a still small voice that said "don't do it"
<snap-l> I'm hoping that my actual backup was smarter than I was
<rick_h_> sounds like nothing irreplaceable lost?
<rick_h_> so you just gave that small voice a big stick for next time
<snap-l> I made a directory called "purchased" which saved all of the purchased music
<snap-l> and the open metalcast music
<snap-l> which I *think* I saved
<snap-l> I'm not powering up that drive until I'm damn sure that the rest of the machine is stable. ;)
<snap-l> Bought another 2TB external drive, which should cover the localized backups
<snap-l> so the only thing that I lost is software archives (which I can get back, hopefully) and the FLAC rips
<snap-l> which aren't irreplaceable, just a pain in the ass to replace.
<snap-l> At least, that's what I'm hoping. ;)
<greg-g> the flac rips are what make me sad
<snap-l> That'll teach me to skimp on backups.
<snap-l> Yeah, no biggie
<snap-l> Just takes time
<snap-l> I wanted to re-rip a few things anyway, because the metadata got messed up
<snap-l> ran picard on a few things and goofed them up
<snap-l> so I'm actually a little happy that it's gone, all things considered.
<snap-l> And that which I lost, I re-buy
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping, heads up, updating bookie install, will need to get the extension from http://bmark.us/extensions.html#installation manual download
<snap-l> OK, no worries.
<snap-l> When should I get that? Now, or later?
<rick_h_> whenever you want
<snap-l> Just got "An error occurred"
<snap-l> Item not found. This item may have been removed by its author.
<rick_h_> from that crx download file?
<rick_h_> http://bmark.us/bookie_chrome.crx
<snap-l> There's no mention of that file on the installation page
<rick_h_> second bullet point
<snap-l> Chromium
<rick_h_> gotcha, yea sorry
<rick_h_> that's "manual download"
<rick_h_> the mobile site is broken atm, bug submitted to jquerymobile but not heard back yet
<snap-l> Ugh, fun
<snap-l> have to say, I'm a real fan of Chrome's sync
<snap-l> saving my butt
<rick_h_> yea, <3
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/06/dali-clock-no-longer-available-in-app-store-this-time-for-sure/
<snap-l> The more I see Apple's App Store, the more I think that it's a load of horseshit.
<jjesse> it is
<jrwren> rick_h_: nice tip on the bcrypt. its some of the most readable C I've seen in a while.  http://code.google.com/p/py-bcrypt/source/browse/#hg%2Fbcrypt
<rick_h_> good to konw
<rick_h_> know that is
<snap-l> OK, I have faith in the world.
<snap-l> Listening to Kraftwerk's "Home Computer"
<jrwren> wtf is home computer?
<jrwren> err... hwat album?
<snap-l> It's a song off of... urm...
<snap-l> one sec. I can picture the album cover.
<snap-l> Computer World.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_World
<snap-l> Welcome from my new Natty install
<snap-l> I'd love to know why my alt keypress doesn't work for irssi.
<_stink_> try esc + <key> ?
<_stink_> not that that's an answer.
<snap-l> It works, and yes, that's not an answer. :)
<_stink_> :)
<rick_h_> byobu by default or something?
<rick_h_> catching the alt?
<_stink_> gnome-terminal?  i've had the same problem in xterm for years
<_stink_> i just got used to esc.
<snap-l> Not running byobu yet.
<snap-l> gnome-terminal
<snap-l> Maybe it's not working because I'm not running it with byobu yet. ;)
<snap-l> The joys of setting up a new machine
<snap-l> Hm... my graphics feel very jittery on this machine
<snap-l> Running rsync, but everything feels sluggish
<jrwren> change your scheduler?
<jrwren> too much swapiness?
<snap-l> Nah, I think it's something to do with some of the new "features"
<_stink_> gJitter
<krondor> wow this secureid stuff is huge, sophisticated attack on rsa secureid fully compromised, spiders into hacks on lockhead, northrup, etc.. scary stuff
<jrwren> its bad ass.
<jrwren> I've always hated SecureID
<jrwren> its security through obscurity.
<devinheitmueller> Serves them right for keeping the seeding material.  They deserve bankruptcy.
<jrwren> it lulls CIOs into a false sense of security.. and now they get what they get
<krondor> now is blizzard's chance!  WoW authenticator to the enterprise... actually I'm not sure if that is their own or actually RSA
<devinheitmueller> I had access to the SecurID source code under NDA.  I lost all respect for them from a security perspective after reviewing it.
<jrwren> well, EMC bought 'em... i don't think EMC will go bankrupt
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: oh yeah? how were the tables generated?
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: highly doubtful.  But a quarter of a billion dollar hit, not to mention their reputation will do quite a bit of damage.
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: no comment.
<krondor> EMC won't go bankrupt as long as they charge 15K for a disk in a san
<rick_h_> that's the thing, you either get fewer breaks with a large silo
<rick_h_> or a lot of little breaks, see this, EC2 downtime, etc
<rick_h_> but the truth is, eventually things break
<devinheitmueller> but but but the cloud never breaks!  That's the whole point!
<jrwren> even my heart!
<rick_h_> hah
<krondor> jrwren:  aye, I want more body redundancy planning in me 2.0.  Less SPoFs for sure!
<krondor> well actually I made a me 2.0 (well two of them) and they seem to have the same issues...
<devinheitmueller> krondor: design defects.
<_stink_> regressions?
<devinheitmueller> bugs inherited from the parent source?
<krondor> definitely and apparently it's been here since this project's inception.
<greg-g> devinheitmueller: welcome to the channel, I don't think we've met before? And, I love your homepage "If you're using Google to look for some guy named Devin Heitmueller, then I'm the guy you're looking for."
<rick_h_> greg-g: he's a CHC regular
<rick_h_> at least for a year
<greg-g> oh, well, that shows you how much I'm not a CHC regular :)
<rick_h_> yea, all good. I started it because I didn't want to drive ot AA once a week
<rick_h_> so can't blame AA for not driving to me once a week :P
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g doesn't even go to the A2 version
<greg-g> too startupy for my tastes ;)
<brousch> zach steindler mentioned that he was re-vitalizing the AA CHC
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> well, to make up for it, I'll do some python this afternoon (icky python, messing with excel spreadsheets again)
<brousch> better than messing with vba
<greg-g> true
<greg-g> but for now, I'm going to run and get an early lunch (which actually, is turning out no so early for me anymore, my new standard lunch time is 11:15)
<jrwren> i don't think the AA guys meet anymore do they?
<greg-g> on mondays now
<greg-g> I think
<jrwren> i should try to hit that
<_stink_> ..
<snap-l> I'd hit that. ;)
<_stink_> i like snap-l's confidence.
<devinheitmueller> greg-g: sorry, was afk.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, been going to CHC since October.
<devinheitmueller> I'm also typically at the monthly MUG meeting.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: should give a 10-15 min at MUG this month :)
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: on what topic?  Didn't I just do an hour and a half in December?  ;-)
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: that's like half a year ago. the loco is taking over mug this month
<rick_h_> and now that you're in the irc channel you're honorary mi-loco
<devinheitmueller> "loco" ?
<rick_h_> and obliged to impress the group with something for 1-15 :)
<rick_h_> "Ubuntu Michigan Loco Team"
<devinheitmueller> Ah
<devinheitmueller> Sorry, I don't keep up with all the Ubuntu-speak.  I'm only in this channel because of the CHC people.
<devinheitmueller> :-)
<greg-g> yeah, and because we're cool
<greg-g> LoCo == Local Community
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, a quick google search defined the term for me.  Thanks though.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I think I need to come up with a crank-ometer for e-mail
<snap-l> so when my mom sends me a forward from her friends about how Obama doesn't care about white people because the Dixie Chicks aren't singing in Joplin Missouri, which proves that there's a vast media conspiracy that will take over our lives, I can send a nice one-page score.
<greg-g> ugh
<snap-l> what's worse is my mom for whatever reason has become even more conservative as of late.
<snap-l> Yet she still backs the unions and her pension.
<snap-l> Anyone else upgraded to Natty?
<greg-g> man, that case is big news
<greg-g> sorry, I just have to tell everyone everywhere
<snap-l> Yeah, it pretty much invalidates copyright for algorithms. :)
<greg-g> which shouldnt' have been a question, and it is good that this is a summary judgment (ie: the judge didn't even need to hear any oral argument)
<greg-g> but the case is full of great quotes to reference
<greg-g> but it also said that descriptions of scientific fact, if expressed in a very obvious way, are also not protected by copyright. For example, "the Golden Gate Bridge is XXX feet long and YYY feet high."
<snap-l> Gah, fetchmail / postfix just bounced all of my mail. :(
<snap-l> and erased it too. Thanks.
<_stink_> greg-g: oh wow, great news, eh?
<greg-g> _stink_: awesome news
<_stink_> so now we see what happens in other federal appeals circuits.
<_stink_> appellate, i guess
<greg-g> snap-l: did you get my message about MUG and John's talk on Lernid (re: your dent about bounced emails)
<greg-g> I sent it yesterday afternoon, I believe
 * greg-g goes down periscope
<snap-l> Yeah, I did, but haven't had a chance to respond.
<jrwren> which case invalidates (C) algo?
<_stink_> jrwren: http://identi.ca/notice/75668196
<_stink_> that's where i got it
<jrwren> wait. "equations, figures, adn text" were not subject to (C)
<jrwren> but... figures...
<jrwren> figures is getting close to art.
<jrwren> there are a lot of XKCD that aren't much mroe than some figures and text.
<snap-l> Thing is, you could probably take any piece of work, and algorithmically break it down.
<snap-l> The Mona Lisa as a PNG file
<snap-l> xkcd, etc.
<jcastro> snap-l: heya
<jcastro> I might be selling my car before MUG, and jill has to teach
<jcastro> so I might need a ride
<snap-l> jcastro: OK. I need to figure out my own ride situation as well
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> not sure if JoDee is going to school on that day
<snap-l> but yeah, I'll come pick you up.
<rick_h_> car pool!
<rick_h_> I'll be down this way working in the office
<jcastro> I checked and jill for sure is teaching
<snap-l> OK, We'll figure something out
<snap-l> But regardless I'll still pick  you up
<snap-l> might be a little late to the meeting
<snap-l> Wow, 98.1 according to the Wunderground
<jrwren> !!!
<jrwren> KARB says 91
<jrwren> wunder personal station nearby says 95.5
<snap-l> http://www.wunderground.com/US/MI/Royal_Oak.html
<jrwren> 99.7 at another station
<jrwren> http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KMISALIN4
<jrwren> 100.0 !!!
<snap-l> I wonder how many of them are getting sunlight
<jrwren> right
<snap-l> Our outdoor thermometer is registering 117F
<snap-l> but it's pretty much in direct sunlight
<jrwren> O_O
<rick_h_> yea, it's toasty
<rick_h_> ty AC, how people live without I'll never know
<The_Machine> ;-)
<brousch> rick_h_: we didn't have AC at home until we had a kid
<rick_h_> crazy people!
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/freep/status/78199281621807104
<rick_h_> woot for records
<brousch> fans and understanding airflow go a long way
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, when our AC died we finished the summer without
<rick_h_> but there were a few days we went to some early movies :)
 * The_Machine didn't have AC growing up..  
<The_Machine> my parents were mean.
<brousch> didn't exist back then
<The_Machine> i'm not that old :P
<brousch> sorry, i read your nick as "Time_Machine"
<jrwren> i didn't have AC growing up.
<jrwren> i still don't need it.
<jrwren> i like the heat.
<jrwren> basements help too
<rick_h_> ok that is awesome http://news.discovery.com/space/big-pic-shuttle-endeavour-docked-space-station-110607.html
<snap-l> Yeah, JoDee's dad only has two window AC units
<snap-l> one in the kitchen, and one in the bedroom
<snap-l> were I to have my druthers, we'd have central air in this place.
<rick_h_> I've said it before...there's you can't do at 78deg. No good reason for it to go over that
<rick_h_> Where do I have to move for a season high of 78?
<brousch> seattle
<brousch> Summers are dry and warm, with average daytime highs around near 75 Â°F
<brousch> Winters are cool and wet with average lows in the mid 30s
<rick_h_> man, I need to off my in-laws so I can move to Seattle
<brousch> also it is cloudy 200 days/yr so you won't get sun burned
<rick_h_> that's good, I hate getting burned on my bald head
<brousch> also, anywhere in canadaland would fit
<rick_h_> shoot, I'm next door to CA now
<rick_h_> but I didn't realize seattle was like that
<rick_h_> I hear they have good coffee :)
<rick_h_> The lowest recorded temperature was 11Â°F in 1989.
<rick_h_> nice! no sub-zero either?
<brousch> hm, wikipedia said 0F in 1950
<brousch> outtie
<rick_h_> crap, now I really want to move
<rick_h_> that would rock
<snap-l> rick_h_: They have shitty bands in Seattle
<rick_h_> I'm sure amazon works
<rick_h_> I don't do live music anyway
<snap-l> No, I mean the climate there makes people miserable
<snap-l> or think they're hipsters.
<rick_h_> have you see DTW?
<rick_h_> not exactly happy-ville
<snap-l> Yeah, but it's misery with purpose;
<rick_h_> lol
<The_Machine> what's the purpose?!?!
<snap-l> Shhhhh... don't give it away. ;)
 * The_Machine gives a murderous look
<jrwren> Seattle climate is awesome. Its the suburb cities I dont' like.  Seattle proper is sweet.
<snap-l> I really wish Banshee supported both freedb and musicbrainz
<snap-l> OK, seriously? I deleted one album from Music, and now Banshee is hanging
<snap-l> I think the community needs to lay off the crack pipe
<snap-l> Seriously, some pretty bad decisions coming forth
<snap-l> Ah, OK, I recant
<snap-l> Apparently my Ubuntu One finshed around the same time
<snap-l> so it was rescanning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-08
<snap-l> Man, I'm listening to WDET talking about the city of Detroit
<rick_h_> that's a mistake
<snap-l> Talk about a fucked city.
<snap-l> There's no money, and they're fighting over what little is left.
<snap-l> And it's all more corrupt than a third-world nation
<snap-l> Um, this is weird.
<snap-l> Soundjuicer doesn't show a launcher icon
<rick_h_> so the wife isn't warm to the idea of moving to seattle
<snap-l> Could've told you that.
<rick_h_> but do see a seattle job on python job board
<rick_h_> though there is a google office there it looks like
<greg-g> score. I'm on the roof of the porch with the laptop. *much* cooler out here
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome!
<rick_h_> cooler is better
<rick_h_> i need a non code book to read...hmmm...
<devinheitmueller> I wish I had a porch.  My apartment is stinking hot.
<greg-g> yeah, we don't have the porch, just the roof to the porch :)
<greg-g> second story apartment and all
<devinheitmueller> ah
<rick_h_> less buggy up high, good stuff
<slapshot> Yoooo
<slapshot> ?
<rick_h_> ...name not found
<slapshot> what name
<rick_h_> Yoooo :)
<slapshot> yooo
<slapshot> you like dank?
<rick_h_> speaking greek to me
<greg-g> rick_h_: less buggy, but still kinda buggy :)
<rick_h_> yea, we have misquito issues, but have found that 2nd story helps a ton
<widox>  rick_h_ does that tagbar plugin work in console vim?
<widox> the screenshots all look to be in gvim
<snap-l> Running backups on my machine now. :)
<snap-l> And yes, it's hot as hell out there
<snap-l> I've got the air conditioning on
<snap-l> man, run two rsyncs, and watch everything burn
<widox> I finally put in my window unit in the bedroom so we can sleep tonight
<snap-l> Yeah, we did that last week
 * widox doesn't have central ac
<snap-l> Neither do we
<Blazeix> heh: http://twitter.com/#!/gortok/status/76647922065883136
<rick_h_> widox: not tried it yet
<Blazeix> that first link blows my mind
<rick_h_> looks lke it's cool
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ruh roh
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fauth/bookie/models/auth.py#L65 if anyone wants me to do anything different lol
<snap-l> Oh dear god
<rick_h_> I see those things Blazeix and then cry because I know how work does things
<rick_h_> and I've pushed for them to fix it, but hasn't happened on several apps
<rick_h_> I mean, one app, the usernames are $level_$id
<rick_h_> and $id == the password
<rick_h_> "but it's ip limited to only their network space..." :(
<widox> haha, those are some awesome functions in that pastbin... :-/
<snap-l> But but but... I replaced ; with '', so it should't run
<rick_h_> any time you see " secureSuperGlobalPOST" you know you're doomed
<snap-l> The third link is precious too
<rick_h_> yea, so glad there's a mad rush to md5
<rick_h_> yay for the base64 of our day
<snap-l> I'm just waiting for the rot13 and md5sum security
<snap-l> Good night, everyone. See you tomorrow.
<snap-l> Why does this frighten me? https://identi.ca/notice/75739526
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/group/rantofabkuhn
<brousch> afraid of competition?
<snap-l> hardly
<snap-l> Different goals, and it seems they're not ranting about FLOSS
<snap-l> This is what the difference between the Ubuntu Conucil and the JCP is in a nutshell: https://identi.ca/notice/75742081
<rick_h_> ouch, that's a scary podcast
<brousch> snap-l: nice, link us to your identica post that links to the article
<brousch> you're a real slashdotter
<rick_h_> hah, publicity artist at his best
<snap-l> Yeah, I need to monetize my identi.ca. ;)
<greg-g> uh oh, this guy started following me on twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/Piracy_Patrol
<rick_h_> greg-g! I never thought you'd be a wrong doer like that
 * greg-g hangs head
<greg-g> I'm guessing it was because of the court case I tweeted yesterday
<brousch> you have angered the man. now he is tracking your every tweet
<brousch> can you feel the spy satellite looking through your window?
<greg-g> luckily, the angle I have of the window goes directly towards another building that is very close (20 feet) away, so the satellites can't see me. but if I peak my head around like this....... then they can see me.
<brousch> reflections
<brousch> they can take a 1" reflection of you from a window across the street and watch. don't you watch CSI or NCIS?
<greg-g> "enhance that image. enhance it again. and again. and again." Turning that 4 pixel area into the resolution of a widscreen LCD.
<brousch> snap-l: how's natty treating you now that you've got a fresh install?
<rick_h_> man, I am dragging today...ugh
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, we should do a lococast before you calm down too much :P
<snap-l> Well, Natty is OK, but there's a lot of rough edges
<snap-l> "As of today, we have killed 1.75 million files containing our client's content. #copyright www.piracypatrol.com"
<snap-l> hopefully they got some of the originals too
<snap-l> I've had to change how I use my machine
<snap-l> Oh, and upgrading? Yeah... I'd recommend not doing that.
<snap-l> Reinstall
<snap-l> At least, not if you're going from LTS to 11.04
<rick_h_> that sounds so familiar
<snap-l> I even went so far as to trash my home directory and just copy over what I needed
<snap-l> though that's mostly because certain apps were acting wonky (banshee apparently doesn't behave well when you delete a bunch of files)
<brousch> i love that armin ronacher (flask) is at djangocon europe. he is providing much material for me
<snap-l> (who knew?)
<snap-l> Ugh, it's already 86 in this room
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> and it's not even 9am
<brousch> AC
<rick_h_> basement time here for sure
<brousch> what are you, Dutch? turn on the air!
<snap-l> brousch: Air is in... in the bedroom
<snap-l> not the computer room. :)
<rick_h_> laptops ftw
 * rick_h_ is chillin in the recliner with pandora on the roku going
<snap-l> you guys are just full of answers. ;)
<snap-l> s/answers/shit/ ;)
<brousch> i would not want to work from home without AC
<rick_h_> tomorrow high 82
<rick_h_> should be more reasonable
<rick_h_> brousch: started to try to get to seattle
<rick_h_> wife isn't warming up to it, but checked out and there's a google office hiring out there
<rick_h_> more important to find work for her though
<rick_h_> maybe I'd apply for those canonical jobs and do the fulltime remote again
<brousch> i think there's a big software company in seattle
<brousch> did you see if they're hiring?
<rick_h_> man, good looking weekend coming
<rick_h_> 71, 77, 75
<brousch> rick_h_: i would also like to draw your attention to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climate
<rick_h_> I'm not cool enough to be in CA
<snap-l> Good morning, Wolfger
 * snap-l is glad he bought some CDs from Bandcamp, because unfortunately you can't re-download albums after a certain period
<Wolfger> not really it isn't :-/
<Wolfger> but at least I'm back in the good ol' USA :-)
<jjesse> anyone play with google music yet?  trying to understand why i would want google music instead of amazon music
<rick_h_> jjesse: nope, no interest. Can't buy music so not interested
<jjesse> theres some free music to start you out with that you can stream, then you upload all your music to them
<jjesse> and i doubt there is a *nix friendly version of the uploaded
<jjesse> uploader
<snap-l> I guess my big question about that is since I rip to FLAC, how much space is available?
<rick_h_> there was a ppa of a wine packaged uploader
<snap-l> and does it support FLAC?
<rick_h_> 20k songs
<rick_h_> not sure on flac
<jjesse> but if i buy an album w/ amazon i get 20gigs of cloud storage for amazon  music
<rick_h_> right, but that's not promised for next year
<rick_h_> coule be initial offer, but who knows
<jjesse> so i upload my music to either google/amazon/apple or Ubuntu One
<rick_h_> yes
<rick_h_> but apple doesn't have streaming
<rick_h_> it does 'sycning'
<rick_h_> http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-20069418-12.html
<brousch> snap-l: looks like natty's not the only problem upgrade: mitsuhiko 9:34am via Echofon: When upgrading to iOS5, make sure to do backups. Lost a month of contact's worth
<snap-l> Oh that's brilliant
<greg-g> gamerchick02: dude, totally do an Ubuntu Hour up there with Matt!
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Also, congrats on the interview!
<greg-g> yeah, ditto on that too
<rick_h_> madison heights eh? That's awful close to CHC land :)
<snap-l> I wish bands would make it easier for me to give them money for their album
<snap-l> Trying to find a link, download, or God-knows-what for MIND:|:SHREDDER
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> thanks!
<gamerchick02> AND, my internet was turned ON this morning!!!
<gamerchick02> *happydance*
<gamerchick02> *boogie down*
<gamerchick02> CHC, rick_h_?
<snap-l> gamerchick02: What the hell was with that?
<greg-g> CHC == CoffeeHouseCoders
<snap-l> I've never heard of an ISP taking 12 days to get internet reconnected.
<rick_h_> coffeehousecoders
<gamerchick02> AT&T shut off our phone for no reason
<gamerchick02> earthlink shut off our internet due to no dialtone
<rick_h_> sorry, UH:CHC now
<gamerchick02> earthlink has been trying to get us back online, but AT&T was blocking their setup.
<greg-g> lame
<gamerchick02> i think my friend Zack talked to his sister, she kicked some union ass, and they put the order through
<gamerchick02> because Earthlink has to get AT&T to release the line for DSL
<gamerchick02> Zack's sister works for AT&T.
<gamerchick02> thanks, greg-g and rick_h_.
<gamerchick02> CHC would be fun to attend
<rick_h_> good interview: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2011/06/07/whats-your-start-up-bus-count-7-myths-of-entrepreneurship-and-programming/
<gamerchick02> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/system76-serval-professional-review massive review from the OMG!Ubuntu guys of the Serval Pro. not sure if everyone has seen this or not already. i'm a little late. *ahem*
<greg-g> rick_h_: I like it
<gamerchick02> the interview or the review, greg-g?
<greg-g> the interview
<gamerchick02> oh. i'm catching up on articles that i haven't had a chance to read. i'll get to it...
<brousch> what's the correct way to check if a list has something at a certain index? if list[2]: do_stuff
<brousch> that gives a key error if the index doesn't exist. do i really have to wrap this in a try except?
<rick_h_> if len(list) >= X?
<brousch> well, i'm actually grabbing from the end of the list
<snap-l> try: except?
<rick_h_> huh? they're sequential
<snap-l> Do you care what the index is?
<rick_h_> the list is either longer than your idx or not
<snap-l> or just the contents of the end of the list?
<brousch> i have a list and want the last 3 items, but sometimes there's only 1 item in the list
<snap-l> I'd use pop
<snap-l> with a try / except
<rick_h_> if len(list) >= abs(idx)
<rick_h_> if you're doing idx == -3 or someting
<brousch> ah, i see
<brousch> getting them from the end was messing with my head
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Are you treating this like a queue?
<snap-l> or a stack?
<brousch> a list
<brousch> appending items to it, but not really removing them
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> using a list as a list?! how dare you!
<brousch> i realized my data is so small i can stick it in a list instead of a real database
<snap-l> why not use append?
<brousch> i do use append
<snap-l> OK...
<brousch> but i really only care about the 3 newest ones
<brousch> until one of them goes bad, then i'll remove it
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Whenever I see something where someone is using the end of a list for something, I start wondering if they're trying to implement a stack or queue or ...
 * snap-l better get out his "jump to conclusions mat"
<snap-l> Anyone know of a way to get SoundJuicer / Banshee to do local lookups for CDDB?
<gamerchick02> change the database location?
<Wolfger> Sheesh... watch out for flying bears, now. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/08/2-people-die-as-bear-flies-through-suv/?hpt=hp_t2
<snap-l> OK< I did not see that coming.
<binbrain> wolfger: I love that in the article they mentioned that no alcohol or drugs were involved
<rick_h_> man, porting to postgrs is a lesson on the absolute crap sqlite/mysql let you get away with
<brousch> it's not crap if it works. it's fertalizer!
<Wolfger> binbrain: I'm wondering if they tested the bear...
<snap-l> Why is MusicBrainz so impenetrable?
<brousch> snap-l: the z on the end should have tipped you off
<greg-g> have you ever met/seen the guy who started MusicBrainz?
<greg-g> I'll let you guess which one of these Robert Kayes he is: http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=962&q=Robert+Kaye
<brousch> the one with the nice ass and the red skirt?
<snap-l> I'm sure he's the one with the shaved head art
<snap-l> I think it's a neat concept, but damn if it isn't frustrating as hell to get info in and or out of it
<snap-l> doing my part by trying to update the indo
<snap-l> info, even
<snap-l> But it's a real hassle
<snap-l> If Banshee doesn't have the right disc ID, it'll just bomb out
<brousch> i think CHC/UH is about to fire up in GR
<snap-l> even though all of the results are the same damn album from Picard.
<brousch> jean luc?
<snap-l> No, the music brainz lookup program
<snap-l> Which, incidentally, is the only way to do any lookups of CD IDs
<snap-l> But, I'm sure like most OSS things, my right to bitch is directly proportional to how far my sleeves are rolled up. :)
<snap-l> ARGH! http://musicbrainz.org/cdtoc/cfw1kqALZW8hKA7bvh1womooApk-
<snap-l> Something tells me Banshee can't handle multiple releases
<brousch> what about it?
<snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110531/00303814468/dubious-record-label-insists-it-has-patent-pending-method-to-guarantee-platinum-selling-album.shtml
<snap-l> Wasn't the schmoo at CHC selling Zer01 VOIP?
<snap-l> Or was that something else?
<brousch> schmoo?
<rick_h_> snap-l: no idea
<rick_h_> I tried hard ot block it all out
<brousch> rick_h_: you follow ossmichigan rss feed?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea
<brousch> hm, wait, these came from decafbad, isn't that snap-l?
<rick_h_> no
<rick_h_> lmorchord
<brousch> a couple of old posts about delicious popped up there
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/lmorchard
<rick_h_> yea, he's the guy that gave me the massive.xml for testing
<rick_h_> 16k bookmarks and 7k tags
<brousch> ok
<snap-l> Yeah, decafbad.com is lmorchard.
<brousch> ignore me. he must've changed something so the ossmichigan planet reposted his stuff.
<rick_h_> yea, he's been updating his block to jeckell
<rick_h_> or whatever it is
<brousch> these posts are from december
<snap-l> OK, I have a quick quiz for everyone here
<snap-l> this is a 30 second quiz. No fair googling
<snap-l> 30 seconds begins after I post the question.
<snap-l> ready?
<snap-l> What's the command for the Disk Utility that ships with Ubuntu.
<snap-l> Time's UP!
<snap-l> Pencils down
<snap-l> If you guessed palimpsest, you are correct.
<Blazeix> I was going to guess 'du'...
<Blazeix> or maybe df
<snap-l> Well, considering those actually have "disk" somewhere in the name, that would make sense.
<snap-l> "A palimpsest is a manuscript page from a scroll or book from which the text has been scraped off and which can be used again. "
<Blazeix> alias blimpiset=palimpsest
<snap-l> Now, granted, I do like it when a command teaches me something about the world we live in
<snap-l> but not when I'm trying to figure out what said command is. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: what happened to boabab?
<rick_h_> I thoght that was the thing, hated that name as well
<snap-l> byobu?
<Blazeix> baobab, the disk usage gui
<Lledargo> baobab appears to only be a disk analyzer, disk utility can mount, format, etc.
<snap-l> Still a badly named utility.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-09
<jrwren> request for Lococast 18... retract your VB6 open sourced announcement. it was a scam. its not being open sourced.
<snap-l> jrwren: Thank God.
<greg-g> g'morn
<brousch> ayup
<rick_h_> oh wtf, Columbus has its own vim group now?! http://www.meetup.com/Vim-Columbus/events/20827741/?a=socialmedia
<brousch> jealous?
<rick_h_> damn ohio
<rick_h_> yea, they've got multiple python groups, a freaking vim group, pyohio, olf
<brousch> all we have i penguicon
<rick_h_> and sorry, but that's not even the same
<brousch> i know
<rick_h_> that's like "We've got the auto show"
<rick_h_> except "We've got the crazy people show"
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> I have been toying with organizing an open source conference here. i just don't think many people would come
<brousch> besides, we have barcampgr
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> all things start small though
<rick_h_> first pyohio was somehting like 30 people or whatever
<rick_h_> I mean we all fit in one big room
<Lledargo> rick_h_: I thought the 'crazy people show' was just regaurded as normal life?
<brousch> i'd like to see more of that stuff from the east side
<brousch> you supposedly have all of the people
<brousch> how big is mug?
<rick_h_> yea, but people here are anti social
<rick_h_> on a great day 30 people
<rick_h_> these days, with new location, etc, a bit smaller
<rick_h_> but mug isn't made of conf material
<brousch> ug, grlug can bring in that many
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> meh, I'll be quiet. Just floored me they were getting a freaking vim group
<brousch> groups are easy to start ;)
<rick_h_> I'm not going to start organizing anything anytime soon so if you're not helping, stop complaining
<brousch> i declare vimgr!
<rick_h_> heh, we had a 3 person CHC last night. Smallest I remember since thanksgiving
<brousch> i could have 4 people at the first meeting ;)
<brousch> i declared a chc-like weekly meeting yesterday. first one is next wednesday
<brousch> 8-10pm
<rick_h_> awesome, should get it up on the web site as a location
<brousch> well it's really a relocation and time change of grlug saturday social
<rick_h_> gotcha
<brousch> i can't even call it an ubuntu hour yet
<brousch> we need a midwinter linux fest in lansing or ann arbor
<brousch> does ann arbor have a linux group?
<rick_h_> too mac happy :P
<brousch> that is becoming a problem
<greg-g> brousch: we have WLUG, washtenaw county lug
<brousch> ah
<Wolfger> Ah... we can all bask in the warm spotlight of the Linux Journal.... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/ubuntu-bug-reporting-again
<Wolfger> I think we should rewrite a maxim: "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are ignored for 6 months until somebody asks if it can be reproduced in the current version and/or latest alpha/beta release".
<Wolfger> OK, I could waste way too much time on today's Google homepage.
<snap-l> Wolfger: The problem is that OSS has DUBS mentality
<snap-l> We don't perfect the wheel, we just make it bigger with more chrome
<Wolfger> DUBS?
<snap-l> Sorry, DUB
<snap-l> Oh c'mon, you've worked at Chrysler long enough to know what DUB is.
<Wolfger> I'm acronym impaired, sorry
<snap-l> Refers to 20 inch wheels
<snap-l> Chrysler partnered with them to trick out the Magnum, 300, etc.
<snap-l> http://v2.dubmag.net
<Wolfger> ah... see, now, you mistake me for a car guy just because I work at a car company.
<snap-l> I'm nto a car company, but they handed out posters of those cars like they were candy.
<snap-l> It was like a badge of honor how many and how old your posters were.
<Wolfger> heheheh
<Wolfger> I never got a poster
<snap-l> http://www.benlevy.com/auto/show/cas07/chrysler300c.jpg
<snap-l> That is DUB in a nutshell
<snap-l> Tricked out, custom.
<snap-l> Turns heads
<snap-l> and the moment you hit a curb, you're down $3K
<Wolfger> LOL. Firewall blocked that site.
<snap-l> You're shitting me
<snap-l> hang on
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/yLH/
<snap-l> Sorry the great firewall of Chrysler doesn't want you seeing their product DUBed out.
<snap-l> Though, maybe that's a good thing. :)
<snap-l> Why the fuck is that site blocked? IT's a guy taking pictures of cars.
<Wolfger> ROFL
<Wolfger> I gave up trying to make sense of it.
<Wolfger> so.... yeah. Really impractical tires.
<snap-l> I mean, I could understand if it was a site dedicated to Race Queens or models
<snap-l> but this is _your bread and butter_
<Wolfger> heheheh
<Wolfger> I'll just play guitar on Google a bit longer while we contemplate the logic behind that.
<Lledargo> lol i didn't realize that the logo was interactive today, going to play guitar right now
<Wolfger> and you can record it
<Wolfger> and they give you a link so you can share your recording
<Lledargo> Yeah, thats awsome.
<Wolfger> Google is <3
<jrwren> columbus is a very tech city.  its like ann arbor, but 5 times the populus... and about 2 times the techies :p
<jrwren> they had to grow 5 times just to keep up 2x :)
<jrwren> what surprises me most bout the columbus vim meeetup is that I don't nkow any of those 8 on the lsit :)
<jrwren> 'cept Raju who says "maybe"
<binbrain> jrwren: what the big tech industries in Columbus?
<binbrain> what <are>
<Wolfger> uh.... hosting conferences?
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> That's my thought. :)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> lots of finance, insurance.
<jrwren> for the "cool" factor, edgecase is there.
<Wolfger> 0_o
<Wolfger> Finance and insurance are tech industries?
<binbrain> I'd say so
<binbrain> not directly of course
<jrwren> every industry in high tech.
<jrwren> even escavation.
<jrwren> do you know what kind of tech they use in escavation?  its crazy.
<binbrain> finance spurs a massive amount of tech innovation around here
<jrwren> oil drilling - high tech.
<Wolfger> Just because an industry *uses* tech doesn't mean they *are* tech.
<_stink_> so every city is a very tech city?
<jrwren> tech for tech sake is useless.
<jrwren> no, but every city has tech.
<jrwren> its just a matter of how much.
<jrwren> and cbus has A LOT of stuff
<Wolfger> A hospital is not a tech business. The companies that make the equipment they use are.
<binbrain> Id say some industries are less likely to be technically innovative though
<Wolfger> a financial firm: not tech. The company that writes their software: tech.
<jrwren> i disagree.
<binbrain> financial firms around here mostly write their own stuff in house
<binbrain> at least the stuff I hear about
<jrwren> but if you mean "tech business" as in a business that makes money selling tech, then I agree.
<jrwren> but there are very few of those in existence.
<jrwren> google is not a tech business for example
<jrwren> apple is not
<jrwren> MSFT is.
<jrwren> but now we are talking business revenue models
<jrwren> so I don't see how "tech business" is relevant
<Wolfger> Google is very tech. Their product is advertising, but they build a massive amount of non-advertising tech to achieve their goal.
<Wolfger> Apple is not? Are you insane?
<jrwren> See, I have no idea waht you are talkinga bout.
<jrwren> you are argueing my side now.
<jrwren> in that Finance & Insurance can be tech.
<jrwren> just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<Wolfger> can be != are, and I've seen no example of a finance or insurance firm accomplishing their goals via building tech
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> well, here are some examples: NYSE, NASDAQ, VISA, CITI
<jrwren> all leverage tech to competetive advantage.
<Wolfger> I'm astounded still that you think Apple doesn't count as a tech firm when that is all they do is build and sell bits of technology.
<Wolfger> What bit of tech has NYSE built?
<jrwren> i didn't say that.
<jrwren> I said they do not make $$$ selling tech.
<jrwren> most of apple's revenue is from selling media and dsitribution
<jrwren> its from ITMS not from ipods
<jrwren> choose what we are talking about, how they make money, or what they do.
<Wolfger> fiddlesticks
<Wolfger> itms is recent
<jrwren> if it is what they do, then NYSE has to build high speed trading systems
<jrwren> itms has been around for almost 10 yrs
<Wolfger> Apple has always been a hardware company, and still is
<Wolfger> They have found a new revenue stream, yes
<jrwren> you are just wrong.
<Wolfger> but it is based upon the hardware
<jrwren> go read an annual report.
<jrwren> your statements reflect public perception, but not business reality.
<jrwren> yes, they could not get the distrub revenue without the devices in consumers hands. that is true.
<Wolfger> check the press releases: http://www.apple.com/pr/
<Wolfger> tech, tech, and more tech
<Wolfger> nothing in there about music
<Wolfger> quarterly statement: "Apple sold 3.76 million Macs during the quarter, a 28 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 18.65 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 113 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 9.02 million iPods during the quarter, representing a 17 percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter. The Company also sold 4.69 million iPads
<Wolfger>  during the quarter. "
<Wolfger> iTunes is not mentioned
<Wolfger> ITMS is not mentioned
<Wolfger> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20results.html
<jrwren> jcastro: moving to florida??? WTF?!?!?
<jrwren> Wolfger: then I'm misinformed.
<Wolfger> jcastro moving to FL?
<rick_h_> yea, something about chasing a woman :)
<krondor> I wonder if Florida has been cooler then MI lately
<jrwren> reading teh anual report, "iPhone and related rpoducts and services" is 4X any other product area and "Other... services" is 1/8 of iphone sales.
<jrwren> You are right, my bad.
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah for a year for jill's internship
<jcastro> no worries, we'll be back
<jrwren> ho good
<krondor> jcastro:  what you think for the atv2 xbmc replacement?  http://bit.ly/kh3yBC
<jcastro> krondor: whoa, that's dirt cheap
<snap-l> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8
<krondor> yeah, I don't the brand but ... my only concern is it's ion 1 and atom 330 so not sure if it is a bit underpowered
<snap-l> Apple better get on the stick, or I'm going to have to send Jorge a case of beer.
<krondor> wow I'm forgetting words... I don't know the brand.
<jcastro> krondor: jill has an atom 330 in hers
<jcastro> it's fine
<jcastro> I'd be more worried about the ion1 tbh, but iirc that can chop through 1080p quite well
<krondor> yeah looks like from the xbmc forms performance should be just fine.  To the shopping cart it is.
<krondor> ugh something is seriously wrong with me today s/forms/forums/
<Wolfger> USA resumes airstrikes in Yemen? When did we stop them? When did we start them in the first place???
<snap-l> Wolfger: Welcome back
<Wolfger> we's just droppin' bombs everywhere
<Wolfger> no wonder nobody likes us.
<snap-l> Well, that and the news just can't get enough cock to satisfy it.
<brousch> snap-l: i believe you mean weiner
<snap-l> SSDC
<snap-l> Same Shit, Different Cock
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> Yes. Let's ignore how well (or, more often, poorly) our elected officials run the country, and instead focus on the important matter of their sex lives.
<snap-l> Wolfger: It's easier to drag things down to a hea-said-she-said playground debate than it is to really have hinest and thoughtful discussion
<snap-l> What's even better is it's probably some character assasination
<snap-l> after all, few politicians can withstand the mortal would of sex scandal
<snap-l> you'd have to be JFK or Clinton to withstand that kind of accusation
<Wolfger> Uh-oh. ThinkGeek is targeting snap-l directly... http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/e961/?cpg=162H&image
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> ok, so should a dba know how to write stored procedures and know how to ssh/tunnel ?
<brousch> stored proceedures, if his db supports it
<rick_h_> feel like I'm doing this moron's work for him and want to know if I'm being a cranky old man or not
<rick_h_> "Is there any way to connect to AWS in MySQL Workbench so I donât have to do all this command line stuff?
<rick_h_> "
<brousch> it is certainly something he should learn
<rick_h_> about to explode at that comment
<brousch> command line sux
<brousch> gui r0x
<rick_h_> then ssh tunnel the damn thing
<brousch> that's networking stuff!
<brousch> but i would hope you could point him at a ssh tunnel howto and have him do it
<Wolfger> cruel and unusual punishment that is. Making somebody touch a command line like that.
<brousch> next thing you know you'll take away his TP and make him wipe with a corncob
<snap-l> Um, he's a DBA. He should be OK with the command line
<Wolfger> that's crazy talk
<snap-l> Sorry, but if you can't admin a DB from the command line, you're not doing it right.
<Wolfger> You're using MS-SQL, right? ;-)
<brousch> access does not give me a command line
<snap-l> That said, I've run into a bunch of DBAs at Ford that used TOAD
<Wolfger> that sounds rather repugnant
<snap-l> and Sybase DBAs at Chrysler that used that funky poonched thing that escapes my reckoning.
<snap-l> brousch: If you're using Access, you deserve whatever hellish torment a GUI can give you.
<brousch> reckoning should be properly escaped before you put it in your db
<brousch> snap-l: believe it or now, it's a really nice gui for db crud
<snap-l> brousch: I've used it in the past with Oracle
<snap-l> and have used Excel via ODBC to Oracle
<snap-l> it wasn't pretty, but it worked.
<brousch> that's half of our business application! well, Access instead of oracle
<snap-l> I have to hand it to MS; ODBC is a nasty protocol, but it does work.
<brousch> pyodbc makes it useful
<snap-l> Embarcadero
<snap-l> That's the company that made the tool we used.
<snap-l> Regardless, if your DBA objects to using the command line, they're suspect.
<snap-l> That's like a guy calling himself a UNIX admin because he uses Webmin.
<brousch> what's wrong with webmin?!
<Wolfger> That's like a guy calling himself a web developer because he made a GeoCities page.
<brousch> damn you all? what am i?!
<snap-l> Wolfger: Shhhh
<snap-l> Back in the 1990s that was all you needed.
<krondor> anyone familiar with 'icewarp' mail server?
<Wolfger>  <marquee><blink>GeoCities</blink> was never enough!</marquee>
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/335/
<snap-l> I'm a web developer. :)
<snap-l> krondor: Heard of it in passing, but that's about it
<Wolfger> Oh, well, if you did it all in Perl, that's different! ;-)
<krondor> hmm, trying to figure out stuff about it.  A smaller IT group has been running it for awhile I guess and now I need to sync their mail accounts to our spam solution.
<snap-l> (Sadly, I've seen variations on that Perl script more times than I care to admit"
<Wolfger> that's because a lot of people C&P'd the same bad example.
<Wolfger> > half the web wouldn't exist without copyright infringement.
<Wolfger> "we'll just take this website and change the content"
<snap-l> We used to joke that there was only three original web pages, and the rest was C&P from thosepages.
<Wolfger> that was before CSS, though
<snap-l> krondor: I seem to remember (falsely, perhaps) that icewarp was some OSS project at some point
<Wolfger> Now there's maybe 2 dozen
<snap-l> maybe I'm thinking of Firefox / Iceweasel
<krondor> snap-l:  no I think I recall that, but looking at their website I see nothing OSS now... not sure
<snap-l> Like, it was Zimbra or something big before some fork
<brousch> someone forked zimbra? wow, that is a mighty beast
<snap-l> that's what I'm remembering, though I could be horribly mistaken
<snap-l> the ol' brain don't remember so good.
<rick_h_> bah ok, he's no DBA. He's a freaking guy that did reporting on MSSQL server and got a job doing mysql db reporting crap here
<rick_h_> and doesn't get temp tables, stored procs, etc
<rick_h_> "done any programming?"
<rick_h_> "some vbscript?"
<rick_h_> ...
<rick_h_> so you mean no then
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Sorry, but if you're a DBA, you get, nay, love stored procedures
<snap-l> means you get to be touchy-feely about the code banging against your database.
<jrwren> some python? so you mean no then.
<snap-l> Aw, who woke 'im up?
 * brousch sniffs the air. I smell troll
<jrwren> "you setup a 1000 node linux cluster, but never built your own kernel? We'll put your skill level at n00b"
<brousch> snap-l: he has a alert set on vbscript
<snap-l> jrwren: If the only programming you've ever done, as part of your existence on this planet we call earth, is VBScript, you are worthy of derision.
<jrwren> its foolish generalizations like that which cause the need for ubuntu code of conduct.
<jrwren> ITS JUST A PROGRAMMING LANGAUGE
<snap-l> It is the programming equivalent of saying that you've seen Rome because you bought that month's National Geographic.
<jrwren> you can program shit in any language.
<jrwren> except that its not.
<jrwren> lmgtfy.com?q=define:strawman%20argument
<brousch> oh man, did jrwren just CoC-slap snap-l?
<_stink_> file charges!
<snap-l> http://jwilliams.org/C2090488437/E1354392596/index.html
<snap-l> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=vbscript+sucks+donkey+balls
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> so, just like php, perl, ruby? http://www.bitstorm.org/edwin/en/php/
<jrwren> http://www.simmoril.com/blog/?p=135
<jrwren> http://juixe.com/techknow/index.php/2007/09/21/java-ruby-and-even-python-sucks/
<snap-l> I have seen sins committed in PHP
<snap-l> Atrocities in Ruby
<jrwren> EVERY langauge has its warts.
<rick_h_> look, if the guy has my co-worker writing a freaking C user defined functino no mysql that's taken down the damn server 10x in the last two weeks for this: http://daphne.palomar.edu/stat/vs%20medianfd.html
<rick_h_> then he's not a db guy or a programmer
<rick_h_> that's all I'm saying
<snap-l> and language genocie in Perl
<snap-l> but they still don't hold a candle to the language hari-kari that I've seen of VB and VBScript.
<jrwren> yeah, I don't know waht that maens.
<jrwren> I've seen great VB & VBscript.
<jrwren> I know VB and VBScript coders taht can code circles around a lot of python coders I know.
<jrwren> EVERY langauge has its warts.
<jrwren> EVERY langauge has its poor coders and its guru coders.
<jrwren> wait... he is writing median function in C???
<jrwren> WTF for?
<snap-l> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=visual%20basic
<snap-l> jrwren: When there's an urban dictionary entry for how shit the language is, I believe the argument stands that VB is shit.
<jrwren> you are citing urban dictionary entry. I'll let that speak for itself.
<jrwren> mysql median function is the first user comment here : http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/group-by-functions.html
<rick_h_> right, but it's not weighted
<rick_h_> so the custom function has to handle a weight to the results, not hard, but for some reason it came to my co-worker that it needed to be written as this "udf" in mysql
<rick_h_> which has been a mess/nightmare
<snap-l> jrwren: that's the freaking point. This guy is not a DBA
<snap-l> and to add insult to injury, he only has coded in VBScript
 * snap-l puts himself in time-out.
<jrwren> maybe point him to this : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1291152/simple-way-to-calculate-median-with-mysql
<jrwren> and teach him the power of searching google and stackoverflow for solutions :)
<rick_h_> it's not any of those, it's a grouped median
<rick_h_> I agree with him that there's not a built in function in mysql to do it
<rick_h_> however, he should be able to whip up a SP to handle it
<rick_h_> and the fact that he's doesn't know temp tables and hasn't written any SP frustrates me that my co-worker has been chasing what she was 'told' to do where it was clearly not the right way
<jrwren> its a bummer that there are inexperienced devs out there that make poor decisions.
<jrwren> its also the norm.
<snap-l> ++
<rick_h_> oh no doubt, and it's partially my coworkers fault
<rick_h_> she 'assumed' that he tried/knew how to do things db side without her C based udf
<rick_h_> when that was a big false assumption
<jrwren> sounds like the team isn't functioning as a "team" ;)
<jrwren> also the norm.
<rick_h_> yea, ugh
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcV4LVhSRLg
<snap-l> I'm not sure how Ubuntu One managed this, but this file is taking longer to download than it did to upload it.
<snap-l> Oh hell no
<snap-l> Hell no
<snap-l> My Blue Microphone isn't working with Natty
<snap-l> What the fuck
<snap-l> This works on the laptop just fine
<snap-l> And apparently booting with the mic installed worked.
<snap-l> I am really starting to get very annoyed with this
<snap-l> Something is causing me to be unable to record.
<snap-l> Fucking overdub. Seems now Audacity / Natty can't handle that anymore
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-10
<rick_h_> snap-l: ouch, I know my boss has issues where the mic only works if plugged in during boot
<brousch> mic troubles?
<jrwren> sounds like dbus is screwy
<snap-l> Sommething
<snap-l> seems that the hardware shows up, but not the mic device
<snap-l> Not sure what the heck is going on
<brousch> snap-l: sometimes it hides. i did a post on it a while ago
<brousch> about half way down this http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2010/07/13/webcam-recording-using-vlc-on-linux/
<_stink_> snap-l: i have something like that on lucid, too
<greg-g> snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous
<Wolfger> Heh... clusterbleep.net? Cute.
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> party ;-)
<rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/910/ top 5 xkcd ever
<Wolfger> He should name the server Epidural...
<Lledargo> lol, I totaly agree
<brousch> snap-l: you've been replaced by an HTML5 app :( http://ow.ly/5eIjF
<brousch> it does work better in FF
<Wolfger> brousch: Are we going back to the days of "this site designed to be viewed with..."?
<snap-l> greg-g: Need some context for that "22:47 < greg-g> snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous
<snap-l> comment
<brousch> Wolfger: did we ever really leave it?
<Wolfger> brousch: I haven't seen one of those web buttons in years... Most sites at least make an attempt at supporting multiple browsers.
<brousch> well google's guitar only worked in chrome yesterday. for drums you need FF
<Lledargo> We were starting to get out of it. The major thing is browsers need to be developed in a manner that support a web design standard.
<Wolfger> Google's guitar worked just fine on my FF browser
<snap-l> brousch: I used Chrome, and got it working.
<brousch> snap-l: the timing is off in chrome
<snap-l> http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10100010101001110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001010101010101010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|140
<snap-l> On mine it's worse under FF.
<snap-l> Ah, for creating it works better under Chrome
<snap-l> playback, it works better under FF.
<brousch> i had no issues under FF with creation or playback
<brousch> but i'm on osx
<brousch> chrome playback is pretty much garbage for me
<snap-l> No, playback works fine, just the | isn't recognized as a valid symbol for a link
<snap-l> Well, you need to use a real OS for Chrome. ;)
<snap-l> My name is Joey, webmaster of a number of sites and I'm currently working on promoting a number of sites you might find interesting.
<snap-l> It concerns link exchange for our mutual benefit and long term improvement of both of our Google rankings.
<snap-l> The purpose of my email is as follow; I am searching for sites such as openmetalcast.com to do business with because I think I can provide you with a great 3way link exchange proposal.
<rick_h_> booh, 3 way
<rick_h_> ooh that is
<snap-l> Oh wow, can I get on your WebRing too?
<snap-l> (fucking SEO spammers"
<Wolfger> It's 90's internet all over again
<brousch> http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10101011101010100000000000000000000000000100100000000000000000000000100000001000000000001000000010000000000000000000000000000000000100000001000101000100010001001000110000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|180
<brousch> i could do this all day
<brousch> hm, how would i record this? plug headphone jack into mic?
<snap-l> brousch: You'd love Hydrogen
<snap-l> or LMMS
<brousch> those free?
<snap-l> Yeah
<brousch> are you trying to kill my whole weekend?
<snap-l> I've also use MuSE and Rosegarden in the past, but I think LMMS is nicer, overall
<snap-l> brousch: Muhahahaha
<brousch> hydrogen looks nice
<snap-l> Yeha, though it's only a drum machine
<snap-l> but a very nice drum machine
<Lledargo> It's not free, but FruityLoops is a nice program
<snap-l> wish there was more integration to LMMS
<brousch> wow, lmms looks nice too
<snap-l> Lledargo: Not having used FruityLoops, LMMS (I'm told) is quite similar.
<Wolfger> I liked the idea of using Rosegarden to compose music, but it never quite worked...
<Lledargo> I have never used LMMS, but I can believe it
<brousch> what's with this slick gui? i was expecting curses and command line
<snap-l> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/
<snap-l> brousch: It's my current go-to software for when I have a creative itch
<brousch> i will pull out the old linux laptop and try it this weekend
<Lledargo> snap-l: yeah, on their hompage LMMS says that it is an open source solution for FL studio(professional version of fruityloops)
<snap-l> Lledargo: The only pro software I've used was Cakewalk back in the 1990s
<snap-l> Everything else has been OSS
<snap-l> So claims like "It's like FL" are taken with a grain of salt, like "OpenOffice replaces Microsoft Office"
<Lledargo> think of it the other way round then, FL is a closed source solution to LMMS ;)
<snap-l> Because there's one thing that I've learned from creative professionals; they love to abuse their tools to the point where nothing but the original will do
<snap-l> Lledargo: WFM. ;)
<snap-l> I think I'm going to title my MUG talk "So You've Got Natty: Successfully coping with Ubuntu's latest distribution".
<brousch> nice
<brousch> snap-l: i'm making you famous on the twitters
<Milyardo> I think last time I tried LMMS it wasn't very useful without FL because it didn't come with any Sound Fonts, it was expected you'd import some from FL
<brousch> well snap-l has more musical talent in his toenail clippings than i have in my whole body, so i think it'll be plenty powerful enough for me
<snap-l> Um, sure.
<snap-l> I just play drums. I have no concepts of harmony or melody.
<brousch> lmms might be the key to getting my wife to switch to linux
<brousch> i have no idea what the difference between harmony and melody are
<jrwren> anyone know what happened to pam_env
 * snap-l is getting back into bug reporting
<rick_h_> good time :P
<snap-l> Yeah, a thrill a minute.
<rick_h_> working with non-linuxy people is so hard
<rick_h_> "I can't change all that sql to lowercase, it'd take for ever!"
<rick_h_> umm... guG
<rick_h_> ?
<brousch> snap-l: i'm gonna get that lmms and hydrogen working tonight. we're going to a graduation party for a kid whose into music and glee club and such so i think a bunch of his friends would like it
<snap-l> Awesome!
<snap-l> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that "Safely Remove Drive" wouldn't remove a drive that was currently having files copied to it
<jrwren> you are wrong.
<jrwren> at least in XP I think you are wrong.
<jrwren> it would sync and unmount and the copy would fail.
<Lledargo> I thought it stopped file transfer, not disallowed removing a drive that was doing file operations
<Lledargo> oh, I was beat to it
<jrwren> i haven't used "safely remove" in years :)
<Wolfger> "safely remove" always fails for me if the drive is in use in any fashion
<snap-l> I mean under a real OS. :)
<snap-l> Ubuntu. ;)
<Wolfger> Ubu-what?
<Wolfger> Sit, Ubu, sit. Good OS.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0cII74YYs
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation
<rick_h_> ok, so we're entering laugh at people friday
<Wolfger> \o/
<snap-l> Seriously?
 * Lledargo is laughing on the outside, but crying on the inside.
<snap-l> I need 125 reputation so I can vote this into oblivion
<Wolfger> ++
<Wolfger> Hmm... Why do I no longer have an account?
<Wolfger> I know I finally caved and got an account for AskUbuntu. I even accrued some rep
<Wolfger> now it's saying no account at my e-mail address. :-(
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation/6308219#6308219
<snap-l> It's questions like those that make me fear for the future
<snap-l> Unless you're reading data from a NFS share over a 28.8 modem from a server in BFE with 26 hops, and a latency of a microwave transmission to Mars, you're probably going to be fine.
<rick_h_> but but but, think of the bits man!
<Wolfger> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5659360/why-should-you-avoid-the-then-keyword-in-ruby
<Wolfger> I would tend to agree...
<Blazeix> is anyone familiar with page-rendering pipeline differences in IE9 vs chrome?
<Wolfger> "then" is useless
 * rick_h_ cries as he changes a user's password from gjC8kTNnP5 to Secret1
<Blazeix> I have an app that does a full page refresh when navigating from page to page. IE9 seems to hide the fact that you're refreshing the page, since it does it so fast
<Blazeix> chrome and ff show a nice big white page between page changes
<rick_h_> just that IE9 is all hardware now
<rick_h_> not sure on the actual pipeline/render changes
<rick_h_> I think chrome/etc do hardware accelerated of bits
<rick_h_> but I thought IE was moving all rendering to hardware?
<Blazeix> maybe. i was wondering if it was a difference between IE9 rendering in a streaming fashion vs chrome waiting for all the content
<snap-l> Huh... apparently my spamhaus config gor removed during my postfix upgrade
<snap-l> Wondered why I had more spam coming through
<snap-l> Thank you, whomever voted me up. :)
<Wolfger> Maybe the iPad just sucks? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308784/app-store-screenshots-looks-blurry-on-ipad-whats-going-on
<Wolfger> Hmm... Well, they spend more time coding than anything else.... ;-)  http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/82995/what-percentage-of-time-should-be-non-programming
<Wolfger> (yes, I'm bored, why do you ask?)
<snap-l> God, Programming.stachexchange is the worst for those navelgazing questions
<snap-l> sorry, programmers.
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/83038/qa-bugs-poor-programmers <- rick_h_, here you go.
<rick_h_> I'm afraid to click ...
<snap-l> I can hear the shotgun
 * rick_h_ closes without reading any of the comments, the question was more than enough
<Wolfger> snap-l: LOL. I was just reading that same one...
<Wolfger> That question boiled down to "It's not my fault! Right?"
<snap-l> Argh, JoDee just told me that Borders in Birmingham is closing
<rick_h_> dum da dum dum!
<brousch> thanks, rick_h_ now i have the dungeon music from mario3 in my head
<snap-l> http://www.detnews.com/article/20110610/BIZ/106100340/1001/Borders-puts-local-stores-on-closing-list
<snap-l> It's on notice, apparently.
<snap-l> I hope it doesn't, but damnit, I'm getting sick of having my favorite stores close.
<brousch> well maybe if you'd spent more money there ...
<rick_h_> it's like church
<rick_h_> what's the current tithe rate for a borders?
<snap-l> I've been tithing my little ass off there.
<jrwren> binbrain: python slots?
<brousch> how do i distribute an app to iphone users without using the apple app store? is that even possible?
<rick_h_> brousch: web!
<snap-l> It's easy
<snap-l> first everyone jailbreaks their phone
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, way to limit the __dict__ of an object by declaring which attrib a python object will have
<brousch> i have web, but camera integration would be better with native app
<rick_h_> you can't then add/extend it
<snap-l> then, they download your app, and figure out how to install
<snap-l> voila, your app is now their #1 favorite.
<rick_h_> but it can be about 4 or 5x memory improvement to go to a namedtuple under the hood vs a dict
<brousch> this app is for barcampgr, so it's not like it needs to be available to the world
<rick_h_> brousch: no side install without rooting
<rick_h_> and doubt you'll have people rooting
<brousch> that is so weak
<rick_h_> no, "that is so apple"
<brousch> i suppose if a couple other barcamps picked up the app, and i charged $2, i could make back the $99 fee
<rick_h_> or get someone who's already paid the fee to submit it for you?
<brousch> hm, yeah, maybe i can get someone from one of the local tech companies
<brousch> good idea
<binbrain> jrwren: special method __slots__ = ('var1', 'var2') allows you to limit class attributes to var1 and var2, its a performance optimizer, but often seen it used in as a way to make the class adhere as if it was limited by an interface
<rick_h_> it's like private final or whatever
<rick_h_> don't do it, one day someone will want/need to change things
<binbrain> private?
<krondor> brousch:  there's an sdk of some kind to do it, a lot of middleware phone managements solutions offer something for it.  I'm not sure how it functions maybe tied to the now defunct mobile me?
<binbrain> I don't think it has an implications that are similar to private or final
<brousch> krondor: i think there is some sort of enterprise app deployment thing, but it costs big $
<binbrain> so basically, there is a developer here that likes to uses slots in all his classes. w.o any reason, ie, performance
<krondor> brousch: no doubt
<rick_h_> binbrain: just that it locks the class down
<rick_h_> but yea, ugh for guys that just do that for fun
<snap-l> Also, you have to keep submitting the $99 fee every year.
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/06/dali-clock-no-longer-available-in-app-store-this-time-for-sure/
<snap-l> I'm so glad I have a google Alert for "open metalcast"
<snap-l> otherwise I'd miss out that Saginaw is having some metalcasting thing-a-ma-jobbie.
<Wolfger> so informative
<jrwren> so if i have python slots the runtime throws if I try to add a new attr that doesn't have a slot?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<snap-l> Yay, got some CDs in the mail from one of the artists I've played on OMC.
<jrwren> i would like that, I think :)
<binbrain> jrwren: why
<jrwren> its closer to static typing.
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/338/
<rick_h_> oop, did that wrong. bah I don't use it
<jrwren> i know the attr is still dyn typed, but at least I have control over the shape of my objects.
<snap-l> Again, it depends
<binbrain> jrwren: I'm not sure what pretend static typing accomplishes though
<snap-l> I can see where it would be useful to arbitrarily define variables against a class, but I can see where that might be a royal pain
<rick_h_> feels warm/fuzzy
<rick_h_> it's the python way
<rick_h_> flexible
<Wolfger> "pretend static typing"? That would be dynamic typing. That's extremely useful! :-)
<snap-l> One way I could see it being useful is if someone did a dick-move on your class that you don't want them to do. ;)
<binbrain> snap-l: lol
<binbrain> snap-l: funny you put it like that, but that's in a way what it amounts to, "I don't trust the other developers so I'm going to control how the instances look like"
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I see as the reason for things like private, etc.
<snap-l> sometimes justified, but more than often way too paranoid
<binbrain> I have no problem with conventions like underscore in Python _private_var
 * Wolfger ponders "more than often"
<snap-l> binbrain: I don't either. I think they're brilliant.
<snap-l> They're awesome because they implicitly say "here be dragons", and then give you a map and a torch
<binbrain> but what if its a dragon doing a duck impersonation
<binbrain> I bet nobody got that, I need to get back to work anyways
<snap-l> If the dragon wants to be a duck, and can walk like a duck, then it's a duck. ;)
 * snap-l just got a very strange image in his head.
<Wolfger> transspecies dragon-duck conversion?
<binbrain> ahhh! damn you nosetest, guess i should of known better though
<binbrain> didn't realize that it silently kills your loggers
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> nosetests --with-id -v -s -x --with-pylons test_psql.ini is my normal call
<rick_h_> thought it still does some tweaking I think
<Wolfger> nose test?
<rick_h_> nose == unit test runner for python
<Wolfger> very odd name
<Wolfger> I would think "snake test" or some such for Python. Or "Monty test".
<Wolfger> circus test, even
<brousch> flask is fun
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, I love it when the guy that doesn't want postgres because he's afraid of change goes "but but but...I neeed this very hard thing..."
<rick_h_> and I can go "boom done, query updated, go try it. Next!"
<snap-l> you know, I was reluctant to change to PostgreSQL
<snap-l> it was just just different enough
<snap-l> but I'm glad I made the switch. Now it feels like I have a real database on my machine
<rick_h_> man, I just whipped our arrays on him. Bwuhahahaha
<snap-l> Also, if you don't like change, you're in the wrong profession
<snap-l> I like stable, but change is good
<rick_h_> yea, this is all because his mysql crap is causing servers to go boom. They've corrupted the whole db twice in trying to dev the thing
<snap-l> ugh
<rick_h_> my boss is starting to get impressed and convinced so I'm starting to feel cracks in the anti-change postgres wall
<snap-l> InnoDB is very fragile
<snap-l> Not MongoDB fragile, but still fragine
<snap-l> fragile, even
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> binbrain: it lets me fail faster, rather than keep running if something that was supposed to work isn't working.
<jrwren> e.g. the fat fingered attr setter invokation
<binbrain> I never have problems with fat fingering, I use pyflakes
<binbrain> failure is quickly identified during test time
<jrwren> what is that?
<rick_h_> highlights vars that don't belong. Never used before, etc
<jrwren> cool
<rick_h_> helps with the typos since you say foo = barz and barz is highlighted as never init'd before
<snap-l> Yeah, pyflakes is awesome.
<snap-l> It catches a lot of dingbat mistakes.
<snap-l> http://fukung.net/v/40275/c56601f86f88fd4d33082916056904f6.gif
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: do you have any idea what the topic is for next week's MUG?
<devinheitmueller> nevermind.
<greg-g> snap-l: sorry, was away most of today. The context for that comment I left you was the people who cut down the tree to steal a bike (and then leave the bike behind)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that was utter crap
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-11
<snap-l> Good eeevening
<snap-l> "Monday, May 13th sees the premiere of the new Imperative Reaction video for Surface, directed by Chad Michael Ward. you need to 'like" Imperative Reaction on Facebook to see it, so go do that by clicking on the images!"
<snap-l> Please to be kissing my ass
<brousch1> come to the facebook. join us. like us
<brousch1> this lmms thing will take some learnin to use
<snap-l> LMK if you run into any trouble.
<brousch1> well the trouble is i am ignorant
<brousch1> hydrogen is much simpler i think
<snap-l> Well, Hydrogen is a single purpose tool
<snap-l> lmms has a lot more knobs to fiddle with
<brousch1> i can't hear some sounds
<brousch1> volume bars jump, but no sounds
<brousch1> like in the piano roll
<brousch1> maybe i don't have a midi device?
<brousch> rick_h_ snap-l i forwarded an email for half off all python books, then went to mannings' catalog. they have a whopping 2 python books that aren't ancient, and they're both beginner books
<brousch> i suck
<rick_h_> heh, brousch yea not a lot of manning love in my book collection
<brousch> rick_h_: it was really quite sad
<snap-l> brousch: No worries mate.
<snap-l> Funny thing is, I already have the wxPython book. :)
<brousch> me too
<rick_h_> http://logio.org/ coolness
<snap-l> Oh, nice.
<rick_h_> a lot like what I was thinking of working on
<rick_h_> though this is less the app logging to the server and more this thing collects already running log files
<rick_h_> wonder how that gets network traffic/etc going with every log file being sent over the wire as well as local
<snap-l> YEah, that can't be free.
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/75990714
<rick_h_> awesome
<rick_h_> spent time with my crown & coke looking at 2U servers last night :)
<rick_h_> maybe next year I'll be trying to get one to run bookie on
<snap-l> rick_h_: Uh oh. ;P)
<rick_h_> hehe
<rick_h_> man, amazed at how hard it is to spec/price a server out there
<rick_h_> easiest was system76 and that makes me nervous lol
<snap-l> I have to hand it to System76; they have copied the right pages from Dell for making it easy to buy a laptop
<snap-l> Dell / Apple
<snap-l> I'm really impressed with their ordering system.
<rick_h_> yea, dell was the second closest
<rick_h_> HP I couldn't find any way to config a server
<rick_h_> lenovo I can't get the page to pull up
<rick_h_> it seemed down for maint last night
<snap-l> lenovo's ordering is shit
<snap-l> Straight out of IBM's webpage design
<rick_h_> seriously, I can pull up outlet.lenovo.com but not lenovo.com at all now
<snap-l> Woah, that's not good
<rick_h_> but yea, got into the diff between iLO3 and IPMI2 and all that fun
<snap-l> Getting ready to rack 'em up? :)
<rick_h_> http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/the-hq-dar-23.jpg lol
<rick_h_> no, more curiousity
<snap-l> rick_h_: That is funny
<rick_h_> but I know my current dual core 4gb of ram machine won't scale up a bookie install with the background processing, etc
<rick_h_> so was more curious, what would a decent 2U cost to run on for a while and make the current box more of a processor/back end/backup kind of thing
<rick_h_> hardware pron :)
<snap-l> Can't argue with that. :)
<rick_h_> also hunted for firefox extension dev contractor stuff
<rick_h_> wondered if there was a market for that like wordpress themes or anything
<rick_h_> that poor extension needs some help
<snap-l> Heh, yeah.
<snap-l> I'm surprised at how difficult the extension is to get running
<snap-l> OK, I have been told that I need to get mine arse in gear.
<snap-l> bbl.
<rick_h_> have fun
<snap-l> Hmm, I'm having trouble getting Jackd to work properly.
<Lledargo> Mmm, Zenders chicken.
<crohakon> Anyone here know much about jailkit?
 * greg-g shakes head
<greg-g> nope
<snap-l> Lledargo: Gotta love the plate-march of Zehnders.
<snap-l> "EAT! EAT!"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-12
<Lledargo> Lots of food too. I didn't eat breakfast today had Zehnders for lunch and I am still not hungry.
<Lledargo> Or rather I am still full.
<snap-l> Ho boy
<snap-l> Just watched two pseudo-science shows on alien astronauts.
<snap-l> Theory is that because ancient civilizations have weird figurines that look like modern astronauts, and because they did things that we can't comprehend, there must be alien involvement with our development
<snap-l> Favorites were that the pyramids were apparently designed to transmit a microwave beam to a satellite
<snap-l> and that the "mana from heaven" was actually created by a machine that would have likely killed anyone that used it
<snap-l> because it irradiated algae, and acted like a still
<snap-l> and needed to be cleaned at least once a week.
<TeamXlink> I'm going to build an eight computer cluster, they are all Pentium III pcs with 256mb, I'm curious to what this cluster could be used for, I'm doing it for the heck of it, a because I can, so I can say I did it type of thing. Could this be useful though?
<brousch> oh this is nice http://software.opensuse.org/
<snap-l> Neato
<brousch> that's their ISO download page, btw
<snap-l> I gathered.
<jcastro> hey snap-l
<jcastro> I am all set for tuesday
<brousch> jcastro_: when do you move to FL?
<jcastro_> end o jully
<snap-l> jcastro_: Got a ride?
<jcastro_> I have my car still
<snap-l> Ah, cool
<jcastro_> but I can chip in on a carpool if you want
<snap-l> (how does that work? :))
<snap-l> So you don't need a ride to MUG, jcastro_ ?
<jcastro_> I can go either way!
<jcastro_> if you want to go eat or something
<snap-l> Was going to hang out afterward to go eat
<snap-l> So if you still want me to come get you, that's fine
<snap-l> I'm borrowing my dad's car
<jcastro_> ok
<jcastro_> that would also remind me to come. :)
<jcastro_> some days I forget to even eat lunch, heh
<snap-l> OK, I'll come get you, then
<jcastro_> does the car have metal capability?
<jcastro_> ie. can we rock out?
<snap-l> It has a tape deck and an adapter
<snap-l> It's a Mercury Sable
<snap-l> But yes, full metal is capable in that car.
<snap-l> Whew.
<snap-l> I've been adding albums to Musicbrainz
<snap-l> hopefully, by the time I'm done with this, I'll have everything in my collection in Musicbrainz
<snap-l> <- part of the solution. :)
 * Lledargo is not part of the solution appearantly
<Lledargo> I tried to add stuff to Musicbrainz, and then my wireless conection died
<Lledargo> I was not happy, as the album I attempted to add was from a bunch of artist that hadn't been added to the site yet so alot of work had been put in to my enry
<Lledargo> s/enry/entry
<snap-l> Yeah, that's a pain
<brousch> dangit, now slashdot is down http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/06/12/1639258/Apple-Sued-Over-Use-of-iCloud-Name
<rick_h_> works here
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-04
<rick_h_> ouch though, $30 outlet :/
<gamerchick02> that is kinda cool. but i just use a power strip and a USB charging block thing.
<gamerchick02> heh
<rick_h_> yea, we've started at keeping usb power cords in the kitchen and the space would be nicer like that
<gamerchick02> i agree.
<snap-l> JoDee managed to kill her micro USB cable
<snap-l> so I only have the one that came with my phone
<snap-l> got one on order
<rick_h_> I'm so glad things are going to that
<rick_h_> almost everything is on that these days, though did hit mini-usb on my bike lights
<snap-l> As long as it's USB, I'm happy
<snap-l> unfortunatlely my nook uses a weird pin-out
<snap-l> it looks like micro usb, but has some funky shape
<brousch> mine NC has an extra long micro-usb
<brousch> damn fools
<snap-l> brousch: It's not actually micro USB
<snap-l> try it (unplugged) in another device
<snap-l> it's actually too thin
<brousch> yeah, doesn't work with other devices
<brousch> the charger works with a regular microusb cord though
<snap-l> Yeah, the charger is just USB
<snap-l> they added some extra stuff to run at higher power
<brousch> it's nice for charging other things, so i carry it in my bag
<snap-l> Let's get the meeting started
<snap-l> Who all is here?
<rick_h_> around
<brousch> is that tonight?
<brousch> wow. got lucky
<Ahuka> Be vwey, vewy quiet. I'm hunting wabbits.
<snap-l> Anyone else?
<snap-l> OK, quiet group
<snap-l> guess it's good, since there's not much to cover this meeting
<snap-l> Only point I'd like to highlight is that Ohio Linuxfest fast approaches
<snap-l> and last year we had a booth with Lococast
<snap-l> which was essentially rick_h_ and I sitting in the booth all day
<snap-l> Which was OK, but didn't afford us much time to see the show
<rick_h_> I and won't be there this year
<rick_h_> err ... and I
<snap-l> Which leads to problem #2 to doing that again
<Ahuka> Why not just record an episode there, and spend the rest of the time seeing the show?
<snap-l> Ahuka: See above
<snap-l> We talked last year about combining efforts with the Ohio team, but that didn't go anywhere.
<snap-l> We cantry that route again
<snap-l> but if not, we'll need to put some effort into having a presence at OLF
<brousch> when is olf?
<_stink_> alf?
<Ahuka> Last weekend of Sept.
<brousch> Very unlikely for me
<Ahuka> While I will be there, my time is already committed.
<snap-l> Ahuka: Yeah, I figured as much
<snap-l> IN any event, something to think about
<jjesse> oh sorry didn't realize meeting was going on
<jjesse> i'll start paying attention
<snap-l> Anything else on OLF?
<Ahuka> Nothing here.
<snap-l> Anything else in general?
<jjesse> no
<snap-l> going once
<snap-l> going twice
<snap-l> Thank you everyone for coming
<jjesse> three times a lady?
<snap-l> Only if you worship Lionel Ritchie
<gamerchick02> sorry. i was on the phone with Brian. but i'm going to bed now and will see everyone tomorrow after work.
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> good morning
<rick_h_> http://xahlee.org/kbd/Truly_Ergonomic_keyboard.html for the morning conversation
<snap-l> About the only thing that needs is a dvorak layout so I can completely write it off
 * snap-l needs to do some scientific studies that ergonomic keyboards don't do what they claim.
<rick_h_> yea, that was my thing. I've been wanting an MS natural with real keys forever, but this is a bit much I think
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well, I think the MS natural keyboard is an abomination as well
<snap-l> so I'm not the best person to ask about "ergonomic" keyboards.
<rick_h_> naw, just too big. needed no numpad, etc
<snap-l> bbiab
<snap-l> Fuck, I can't wait to get to 12.04, where I don't have suspend. :)
<Robechz> hi
 * snap-l just hit suspend, for those playing along at home.
<snap-l> OK, really bbiab
<rick_h_> snap-l: huh? I'm confused.
<rick_h_> see ya
<Robechz> I would like to fix a very super easy defect, will be my first
<Robechz> which defect do you recommend me to fix?
<rick_h_> Robechz: well, I would try to find some appliaction or tool you use and find useful. And look for something within there
<Robechz> OK I submitted a wishlist 'to have a suggestions/report link at the very top right of ubuntu' and it was denied, how can I promote it and or start working on it?
<rick_h_> man, there's a guy running a project that lists out open source projects that could use help with something but I'm blanking on the name
<rick_h_> maybe greg-g can help me remember when you gets up ^^
<shakes808> good morning all
<rick_h_> ugh monday heh
<shakes808> I hear ya
<snap-l> Good morning again
<snap-l> rick_h_: I accidentally hit "suspend" from the drop-down list
<snap-l> it's under "Lock"
<rick_h_> ah
<snap-l> and frankly, on my desktop machine, it's pretty pointless
<snap-l> There's a snowball's chance that I'm ever going to want to suspend the machine on purpose
<brousch> Productive day. Fixed 2 computers and a data entry error already
<rick_h_> woot
<shakes808> brousch: awesome, ... now get me a coffee ;) Lol I NEED TO WAKE UP  lol
<brousch> Right, be there in about 3 hours
<shakes808> Sweet
<shakes808> ;)
<brousch> I pulled some unbelievable dustballs out of one of the computers
<brousch> Looked like steel wool
<shakes808> wow nice, hate working on computers like that
<brousch> 6 years sitting in a metalshop will do that, I guess
<shakes808> When I was working at an RV dealer, their computer was filled with saw dust and metal shavings ... that was fun to clean out lol
<shakes808> I understand you woes lol
<brousch> Bah, just take it outside and blow through 2 air cans
<brousch> Then manual extraction of the steel wool
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> That's when it's time for the vacuums
<jrwren> brousch: he never learned functional or OO. 45 programming langauges all of which look like C and fortran.
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> gamerchick02: mac book air, do it! best laptop I've ever had.  but I run OSX on it ;(
<brousch> jrwren: He's supposed to be a Perl master!
<jrwren> well, he is damned good at perl.
<jrwren> I honestly think he says stuff like that trolling.
<jrwren> like when I say I've been doing nodejs for 10 yrs, because POE and TWISTED and eventing is not new.
<jrwren> but don't tell a node hipster.
<snap-l> jrwren: troll. ;)
<snap-l> but yeah, 45 C-like languages aren't going to teach you dick about OO
<snap-l> And Perl has OO, but it's pretty wonky.
<snap-l> It's not something I found particularly easy / beautiful. Felt more like "if I tweak this just so, it can act like an object"
<jrwren> perl OO is more a way to do OO in a non-oo langauge. a lot like using glib in C
<snap-l> Yeah, that's an apt comparison
<jrwren> ty
 * snap-l likes glib, though. :)
<jrwren> i like glib and perl.
<jrwren> if i'm going to write C, glib style C is my prefered style.
<snap-l>  "[..] certificates issued by our Terminal Services licensing certification
<snap-l> authority, which are intended to only be used for license server                verification, could also be used to sign code as Microsoft. Specifically,
<snap-l> when an enterprise customer requests a Terminal Services activation             license, the certificate issued by Microsoft in response to the request
<snap-l> allows code signing without accessing Microsoft???s internal PKI                infrastructure."
<snap-l> This is why we can't have nice things.
<jrwren> SWEET!
<jrwren> who fucked that up?
<jrwren> who is running that CA?
<jrwren> can I get the key?
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> Seriously, CAs just need to go away
<jrwren> web of trust?
<snap-l> More the notion that the trust level you can have is proportional to how much you spend on it.
<snap-l> because it's clear there's ways to completely break it
<jrwren> certainly.
<snap-l> DIginotar, MS not splitting their terminal server license CA, etc
<jrwren> in a way, ubuntu is founded in CA :)
<snap-l> Yeah, no doubt
<snap-l> and when secure boot comes about, I'm certain it'll just make it harder to run legit code, but malware will find a way.
<snap-l> It's the great constant of the universe.
<snap-l> Like CSS on DVDs (which I find hysterical how they implemented it)
<snap-l> I can see secure-boot making the same mistakes
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> There was a guy with some DMCA stuff on his table at mini maker on saturday.
<jrwren> i didn't realize they made more crap around bluray and newer dvds
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<snap-l> I won't touch bluray with a 10 foot pole
<jrwren> and he pointed out that on any decent TV you can open it up and get the RGB signals post crypto
<snap-l> and I'm a bit disgusted at how Sony protects SACD
<jrwren> sony often hurts their own formats.
<snap-l> Well, SACD requires a special drive
<jrwren> MD was a sweet format.
<snap-l> which was shipping on earlier PS3 models
<snap-l> which kind of explains why they killed off the alternate-OS mod for PS3s
<jrwren> PS3 was SACD?
<jrwren> i had no idea.
<jrwren> its also bluray.
<snap-l> Install the alternate OS, mod the PS3, and now you're golden
<snap-l> jrwren: I believe so, at least from what I've read about copying SACD
<snap-l> Which is why I wish DVD-Audio would take off
<snap-l> but it appears both formats are pretty much dead
<snap-l> Though SACD has a heavy classical following
<jrwren> i am glad I don' thave the ears to tell better than CD.
 * snap-l has a bunch of SACDs
<jrwren> or... I'm glad I'm ignorant to the higher quality :)
<snap-l> mostly because the performances came on SACD, and it has the backward-compatability layer.
<jrwren> i can barely tell difference between a cd rip in flac v. lame v0
<jrwren> oh, sounds like a racket.
<brousch> My friends are ripping a huge Blueray collection. Thay had to resort to a subscription plan for some Windows program to keep up with all the new Blueray encryption crap they come up with
<snap-l> I can kind of tell, depending on the music
<snap-l> there's some cues in acoustic music
<jrwren> did you let your friends know that they are violating DMCA ?
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: I doubt they care about that
<brousch> It's a personal Blueray collection for personal consumption, so they feel justified
<MaskedDriver> brousch: breaking encryption is against the DMCA, ripping from media to your computer in and of its self isn't
<MaskedDriver> that's why all music-playing apps have cd ripping built in to them
<brousch> Google Music doesn't
<MaskedDriver> Google Music application only syncs your current library
<MaskedDriver> it doesn't actually play the music
<MaskedDriver> they want you on their website for ad $$$
<brousch> Well the web client plays music but doesn't rip it either :P
<MaskedDriver> that'd be quite the feat
<MaskedDriver> imo, the fact that you're not allowed to rip blurays and dvds to your hdd is bad policy. Not everyone is in the Scene and is going to upload it for the leechers
<MaskedDriver> some people have media-center PCs and watch movies over the network
<MaskedDriver> if they made it EASIER to rip DVDs and BR, I think it'd reduce the amount of piracy. If it's easy to make an AVI or MKV, more people would do that instead of resorting to torrents or usenet
<MaskedDriver> instead they have to use DVDDecrypter which works rarely on the newest media, so it's much easier to just download the stuff illegally than buy the movie
<MaskedDriver> eliminate the need to leech, you eliminate the need for uppers
<MaskedDriver> <endrant>
<snap-l> Or just wait for it to show up on Netflix, and destroy the industry that way. :)
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: ^ or that
<MaskedDriver> but then you're waiting 7 years
<MaskedDriver> instead of getting the newest flix immediately
<snap-l> It's commesurate with the amount that I give a shit about Hollywood
<snap-l> JoDee and I were looking for something to do. We looked at the list of movies. About the only ones we could muster a "give-a-damn" about were The Avengers (which JoDee doesn't care for superhero flicks)
<MaskedDriver> MIB3 === awesome
<snap-l> and Dark Shadows
<rick_h_> avengers was better than I thought it would be
<snap-l> Which, frankly, is not worth the $$ to care
<rick_h_> the wife is dying to see "Brave"
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: aye.. my g/f is too
<MaskedDriver> luckily I enjoy a good pixar flick every now and then, so I'll probably take her to see it without too much grumbling
<MaskedDriver> I dragged her to MIB3 so it's the least I could do
<rick_h_> ugh, I've heard all kinds of bad about MIB3
<rick_h_> that'll go rental queue I think
<MaskedDriver> http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/men_in_black_iii/
<MaskedDriver> it's not that bad
<MaskedDriver> Josh Brolin's Tommy Lee Jones impersonation is dead on
<snap-l> I have a real hard time taking any movie seriously that tries the "Baskin Robbins has a new flavor" ad
<snap-l> route
<rick_h_> lovely, two layers of popups to close out on rotten tomatoes site...ugh
<MaskedDriver> somebody isn't using a good browser
<snap-l> Somebody is using a shitty site. :)
<MaskedDriver> Rotten Tomatoes is the best site to go to if you're trying to figure out of the movie your girlfriend is trying to drag you to is any good
<snap-l> Anyone here good with php on the command-line?
<rick_h_> heh, I'll take my chrome dev version over whatever else
<rick_h_> snap-l: what do you need? I don't know if I'll recall it...
<MaskedDriver> ablock plus not compatibile with it?
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: not all of us run adblock
<snap-l> rick_h_: Marcel is having some trouble with quoting and php5-cli
<rick_h_> we just decide to not go to sites with crap on it and actually hurt them
<MaskedDriver> then how can you go to lolcats?
<rick_h_> snap-l: ah, pastebin and can try
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: as I said...some of us skip out on crappy internet :)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<brousch> My son says he really wants to see Brave
<rick_h_> yea, I'll go check it out. I've got a thing for red heads :P
<MaskedDriver> it doesn't bother you that they have no souls? ;)
<rick_h_> married one...so nope
<MaskedDriver> :)
<jrwren> found a place in python where I really miss C#. datetimes. in C# i can subtract two dates and get a timespan between the two
<rick_h_> jrwren: timedelta
<_stink_> right
<_stink_> timedelta doesn't do it for you?
<brousch> Python's datetime stuff is the bizomb
<rick_h_> it's a mess :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: compared with what? :) Dates and Times get hairy quickly.
<jrwren> its a mess compared to C#
<rick_h_> snap-l: well it's still a mess
<rick_h_> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/7/15/eppur-si-muove/
<snap-l> jrwren: I'd worry it was incomplete if it wasn't a mess. ;)
<rick_h_> and the fact that dateutil isn't in the stdlib
<jrwren> snap-l: yes, but its a mess in the wrong direction.
<rick_h_> jrwren: make sure to check out dateutil
<rick_h_> it fixes a lot
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://labix.org/python-dateutil
<jrwren> jodatime is a mess, but its a mess becuase it does everything that the real world does.
<snap-l> rick_h_: That article just reaffirms my point that time is a mess
<rick_h_> yes, agree, but that's a great article to have handy when the boss says "Add timezones to that"
<snap-l> Timezones are not simple slices of an orange.
<jrwren> rick_h_: ty, I'll start there.
<jrwren> i'm not adding timezones, but i am trying to read them correctly, and all based on a seconds since epoch number
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's a pita
<brousch> Store everything in UTC
<rick_h_> right, but people don't
<brousch> All other roads lead to madness
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<jrwren> i think it is UTC
<jrwren> but its distributed system, so if one systems TZ is set, and mine is set to something else, and value is read as that TZ value, well then it isn't really UTC
<snap-l> I think you can force it to save UTC
<jrwren> and force to read UTC
<snap-l> even if the tz is set on the machine, it should be able to get UTC from that
<jrwren> or should i use pytz?
<jrwren> hrm, mxdatetime ships with our dist. I might aim for that.
<snap-l> Are OCZ drives OK, or are they rubbish?
<Blazeix> i haven't had any trouble with my ocz drive
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: I haven't had any trouble with them
<Blazeix> for a while they were leading the pack in terms of performance, i haven't checked recently though
<brousch> snap-l: I have 1 OCZ drive that's been in an AutoCAD desktop working well for over a year
<MaskedDriver> Blazeix: not to mention price/gb
<snap-l> OK, just checking
<snap-l> looking to do some upgrades, and wondering if I should get a new OS drive, or get a router
<jrwren> the only issue with OCZ drives is the sandforce chipset issue. I think that is mostly fixed.
<jrwren> OCZ Vertex3 and now 4 are the fastest around.
<shakes808> Question, what do you all use to track bugs?
<snap-l> For our own projects?
<shakes808> YEA
<shakes808> sorry for yelling
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> shakes808: I usually rely on a third-party service like github / Sourceforge
<snap-l> If I had to make my own, I'd probably go with Trac or one of the myriad offshoots
<shakes808> GitHub has bug tracking?
<rick_h_> shakes808: github issues, launchpad, redmine
<shakes808> thank you
<brousch> Bitbucket is free
<brousch> Even for private repos
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> when did they change that?
<jrwren> or is it free for single person?
<rick_h_> when they added git support I think it was their big difference maker in teh announcement
<brousch> 2 or 3 people in a free private repo
<shakes808> 5
<rick_h_> "hey we support git! and bring your private repos over!"
<shakes808> https://bitbucket.org/plans
<brousch> 2+3, that's what I meant ;)
<shakes808> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> "stop giving github your hard earned $$"
<rick_h_> ok, usb 3.0 thumbdrive ordered, 12.04 iso downloaded. Your turn lenovo...x230 better show up online tomorrow
<jrwren> but github is excellent.
<jrwren> its not just about the repo.
<jrwren> its about the nice browsing of the repo in my browser :)
<rick_h_> yea, but there are some who want to keep their crap private and it can add up
<shakes808> If you wanted to have your crap private, why not host your own git server?
<rick_h_> because that's hard :P
<brousch> shakes808: Lazy
<shakes808> How hard?
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> and no issues, no api, no pretty browser UI jrwren wants
<shakes808> there are other issue trackers, as was mentioned above
<shakes808> make your own UI ;P
<shakes808> :P
<brousch> Bitbucket has browser browsing of repo and source
<jrwren> they aren't github.
<shakes808> isn't that what HTML / Python / Django is for ;)
<jrwren> they aren't github.
<brousch> shakes808: It turns into a lot of infrastructure you cobble together for each project, which delays actually working on the project
<jrwren> github, I wnat the one with the most GeeBees
<brousch> Do you want to make your thing, or do you want to make something to help you manage making your thing?
<shakes808> you can't make a script to set everything up?
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> this is SSooooo analogous to "stack overflow is lame, I could make that in a few hours"
<brousch> Shakes, sure you can make a script to cobble together a git server, trac instance, etc. But your time would be better spent making the thing you want to make instead of a script to setup management tools. Especially when good-enough management tools are available for free
<jrwren> shakes808: read this first: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/code-its-trivial.html
<brousch> Although if the thing you want to make is an easy to setup project management suite based on open source tools, then go for it ;)
<jrwren> yes, please do, because all previous attempts are inadequate.
<shakes808> meeting, bbl
<brousch> Oh wait, isn't that Launchpad?
<MaskedDriver> Lauchpad has always bothered me
<MaskedDriver> but it's kinda the standard at this point
<brousch> Careful now, that is rick_h_ 's baby
<MaskedDriver> is it?
<brousch> Adopted
<MaskedDriver> I see
<rick_h_> yea, wouldn't call it my baby, but is my day job
<jrwren> launchpad is open source now.
<jrwren> but its not deployable.
<MaskedDriver> nice what do you do with it rick_h_?
<jrwren> its pretty pathetic when it comes to its deploy story.
<jrwren> and I think that is because they really want to sell it.
<rick_h_> yea, well it's pretty complicated little beastie
<jrwren> but... why would someone buy it when tehre is github?
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: I started there in Nov, I'm kind of the JS guru, but do all kinds of things
<jrwren> i suppose if you MUST have premise based. But if that is the case, I feel bad for you.
<rick_h_> the fancy ajax buglisting stuff was my sqaud, but I came into it late of the project there
<rick_h_> the big thing are places using it for the distribution building bits
<rick_h_> really, if you don't need bug tracking across distros/versions/packages and the PPA setup it's not that great
<rick_h_> but nothing else does the rest of that, so it's what makes ubuntu spin round and round
<MaskedDriver> what kind of JS library are you using? Or are you just using straight JS?
<rick_h_> YUI
<rick_h_> part of my first work was ripping out the last of mochikit
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: nice. I'm more of a jquery guy myself, but it's starting to get so bloated
<rick_h_> and this week we'll be turning on the JS combo loader to LP beta users which should be nice
<rick_h_> well, I'm a jquery hater, so let me know when you need talking out of it :)
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: probably never, but thanks ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: If bloat is his issue, would you send him to YUI?
<rick_h_> yes, YUI helps with that. :)
<rick_h_> since you only include the parts you need per page
<rick_h_> see combo loader
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<brousch> Sounds complicated
<rick_h_> it is, it's always easier to concat everything into one file and include it
<MaskedDriver> brousch: not really. jQuery UI allows you to do stuff like that too
<rick_h_> hardly ever a best practice
<rick_h_> some, you can't do things like drop out the event subsystem, etc
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: yeah
<jrwren> rick_h_: how can you hate on jquery?
<brousch> Why is it so rare for the best practice to be the easiest way of doing something?
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's actually more I hate the jquery user vs jquery itself. And the jquery ecosystem.
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: but my forte is back-end php development. Not front-end, and jQuery was the first one I dabbled in so it's natural for me to use.
<jrwren> ah, ok.
<rick_h_> brousch: because that's the way the world works.
<jrwren> rick_h_: how do you do selectors?
<rick_h_> jrwren: var node = Y.one('#someid');
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: $('.thisclass').someEvent();
<jrwren> ah, so YUI has it too. cool!
<rick_h_> http://www.jsrosettastone.com/
<jrwren> meh.
<jrwren> i was a prototype and scriptaculous user years ago. Why do i have to use a new lib for the same lang and same platform every year?
<brousch> jrwren: Progress!
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: almost all libraries work about the same way, just a modified version of document.getelementbyid()
<Blazeix> MaskedDriver: you're going to get a rick_h_ rant whether you want it or not.
<Blazeix> i predict
<rick_h_> hey, I've been very good so far :)
<rick_h_> thoguh mention logic-less templates at me for a while and I'll go boom!
<Blazeix> hah
<brousch> Logic does not belong in the template!
<rick_h_> making jump through all these @#$#@ hoops just to do a: if obj.method() print obj.method()
<brousch> You're doing it wrong!
<jrwren> sure, they WORK tehe same way, but each has completely different api. all because every year some new killer feature comes about.
<snap-l> rick_h_ isn't satisfied until his templates are turing-complete.
<rick_h_> but finally think I have the right syntax for this crap:  '{{#errors}}{{get_error "name"}}{{/errors}}'
<rick_h_> that translates (somehow) into errors.get_error('name')
<rick_h_> but noooo, I can't just type errors.get_error('name')
<jrwren> django template?
<jrwren> that is rediculous.
<rick_h_> handlebars in JS
<jrwren> and so close to XML without being XML, I'd argue it is worse.
<rick_h_> which is 5x better than mustache...
<snap-l> rick_h_: But I'll bet it can do a sweet todo list.
<snap-l> in 5 lines of code
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<rick_h_> snap-l: and then you'll switch to using it? :P lamo
<snap-l> rick_h_: ONly if they implement a GTD method
<rick_h_> cheap shots ftw!
<snap-l> I can get $.09 back on a $.10 cheap shot. :)
<snap-l> Hmm, this is not right
<snap-l>         self.assertEqual(fields['negative_one'], '-1')
<snap-l>         self.assertEqual(fields['negative_one'], '0')
<snap-l> should I be using assertIn?
<Blazeix> you probably shouldn't be having a key named 'negative_one', for starters :P
<snap-l> Blazeix: Trust me, this is the least of the sins
<snap-l> it's for a field that is always set to -1 for compatability.
<snap-l> shoot, I think I know what's the matter. n/m
<snap-l> Ah, I'm dense.
<snap-l> needed to have test in the name of the file
<snap-l> so it wasn't running at all
<brousch> That counts as a passing test, right?
<snap-l> thought it would run if it was in tests directory
<snap-l> well, was about to give up on the whole thing when self.assertEqual(2 + 2, 3) seemed to pass
<brousch> Just had some random geeker come to the office to tell me about how his email was rejected when sending to us. I stopped him after about a minute of his rambling and told him we use Google Apps. He left quickly
<brousch> Very strange encounter
<MaskedDriver> brousch: looks like something that should go on Computer Stupidities
<MaskedDriver> http://rinkworks.com/stupid/
<brousch> He wasn't clueless. He knew what he was talking about, but thought we self-hosted.
<_stink_> wrong building?
<brousch> No, right place
<brousch> He assumed some spam filter or something on our servers was the problem. "Google Apps" were the magic words.
<jrwren> can I use enumerate in a generator exp to gen a list of tuples ?
<jrwren> e.g. x = dict( ( i+2, j*2 ) for (i,j) in enumerate(something) ) )
<jrwren> ?
<rick_h_> yea, no reason not to. (yield (i,k) for i,k in enumerate(list))
<rick_h_> sorry, you get the idea
<jrwren> do I have ot use yield there?
<jrwren> I can't get the syntax correct.
<rick_h_> no, the () is enough I believe
<jrwren> gah, got it.
<jrwren> so much () it may as well be lisp.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> just tested it out here w/o the yeild
<jrwren> and then if your coding standard is 80 column, you are SCREWED
<rick_h_> no, you can break in the ()
<jrwren> ah, so I can. not bad then.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> yeah, that is actually readable. *sigh*
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> i'd probaby love it if I wasn't used to C#'s LINQ for the same thing.
<rick_h_> but yea, if it gets compliated enough the rule is just to break down and write a function with a yeild
<rick_h_> and use it as a generator
<jrwren> but I supposed the ugly part of linq is this exp would end with ToDictionary(...)
<jrwren> yeah, its not THAT complex.
<rick_h_> right, agree
<rick_h_> ummm...I'm just not sure what to say about this: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/04/orvillecopter-takes-flight-cat-run-over-by-car-gets-extra-life-as-a-remote-controlled-helicopter/
<brousch> rick_h_: It's called up-cycling. Look into it.
<brousch> I'm using the same principles to build a shed from dog poop in my backyard
<brousch> I'm hoping one of the dogs dies soon so I can turn it into a bike for my kid.
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> nice
<shakes808> Anyone want to build a quadcopter?
<shakes808> lol
<MaskedDriver> shakes808: kinda
<jrwren> YAPWTFM - yet another python wtf moment.
<jrwren> re.match v. re.search. WTF?!?!?
<shakes808> MaskedDriver: Ironically, my buddy works for a micro processor company and he is about to make one. I sent it that link for some ideas lol
<shakes808> I will have to see how far he is lol
<brousch> OK, I'm back into the Django TDD Tutorial. It seems like every line of actual code has 10 lines of test code. Is that normal?
<jrwren> not IME
<jrwren> jor	you really need gigabit.  nice btrfs writeup
<brousch> OK, maybe more like 3 lines of test code for every 1 line of real code
<jcastro> jrwren: that is gigabit
<shakes808> have a good night
<jcastro> if you think you'll get near real-world gigabit over a file transfer I have a bridge to sell you
<jcastro> jrwren: also, holy hell houses are cheap in ypsilanti
<brousch> That's because it is Ann Arbor's ghetto
<jrwren> jcastro: yup, but ypsi is ghetto.
<jrwren> jcastro: there is beautiful stuff there, but there are also some bad neighborhoods.
<jcastro> some parts look nice
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> i can at least max out my disks so that they are the bottleneck when using gigabit.
<jrwren> SMB2 is pretty fast, even without jumbo frames.
<jcastro> I have 6TB of stuff
<jcastro> even esata is slow, lol
<jcastro> <-- daddy needs thunderbird
<jcastro> sorry, thunder_bolt_ I mean
<jrwren> i have 3TB of stuff.
<jrwren> maybe i'm not adding my numbers correctly.
<jrwren> I just recall being very happy with gbit and copying a CD iso in under 10sec and a DVD in under a min.
<jrwren> but i guess 1000 of those would still take 16 hrs.  so never mind me.
<jrwren> i'm putting off rebooting my home server, but I really want to drop a card in it to prep for world ipv6 day.
<jrwren> what is a hacker to do?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-05
<rick_h_>  jrwren I think the proper response is to setup a new server that can perform ipv6 duties while the old one runs and then telling yourself you'll migrate the old one over
<rick_h_> jcastro: intel 520 240gb? Any reason not to you know of?
<jrwren> rick_h_: hahahaha.
<jcastro> rick_h_: http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/2012/06/intel-ssd-520-goodness.html
<jcastro> that's the highest endorsement I can think of
<rick_h_> jcastro: k, yea saw that. Ok, ordered then
<rick_h_> hopefully that x230 comes out tomorrow like they're saying
<rick_h_> and upgrade time wooo
<jcastro> they really dropped prices on the current ones too
<rick_h_> yea, $344 for the 240, about what I paid for my 160 2yr ago
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> sick
<jcastro> I just plonked for 4x3TB spinners for my microserver
<rick_h_> and I'm only at 65gb on this one, but no vms, and looking forward to putting those back into play
<rick_h_> yea, saw that, crazy!
<jcastro> so I'm pretty much maxed out my storage budget for a while
<rick_h_> I looked at 2 3gb for my little nas, but ouch
<rick_h_> so went with 2gb
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> but I needed the room since btrfs raid5 isn't around yet
<rick_h_> then again, this laptop is going to be ouch when all said/done
<rick_h_> they're starting up higher this time it sounds like
<jcastro> so I needed to be able to copy from my 4x2tb to the 4x3tb but in RAID1
<rick_h_> yea, that's awesome though
<jcastro> pain in the ass
<rick_h_> look forward to that down the road, think I'll still hang on ext4 for now, but nice to see it getting closer
<jcastro> when it's all said and done and I have both sets of disks in RAID5.
<jcastro> I will be epic
<rick_h_> oh yea
<rick_h_> you going to loan out openstack accounts on there :P
<jcastro> 2 microservers, one 9TB, one 6tb
<rick_h_> damn!
<jcastro> and then I'll likely ceph them together as one mount point
<jcastro> but that's the year-off plan
<jrwren> wtf are you storing?
<rick_h_> yea, well let me know what address to set my rsyncd off to :P
<jcastro> jrwren: find out end of august!
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro> rick_h_: it's too much, even esata direct takes overnight
<jcastro> we need thunderbolt!
<rick_h_> hah, that's the one thing I'm bummed on the new laptop, no esata port wtf!
<rick_h_> though did order up a usb 3.0 thumbdrive to do the install from. Will be the fastest install evar!
<rick_h_> usb3 install disk to intel 520...zoom
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I wish we had an option to just have a reinstall partition
<rick_h_> thunderbolt, are we allowed to use that yet?
<jcastro> like OEMs do
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> naw, I've never needed that
<jcastro> it'll be like what ... less than a gig
<jcastro> I'd rather have that than remember to carry a USB stick
<jcastro> the hw is out there, but expensive
<jcastro> they messed up with the cables
<jcastro> they end up being like a hundred bucks each
<rick_h_> ugh
<jcastro> so then everyone will go "USB3 is good enough"
<jcastro> just like we did with firewire/USB
<rick_h_> oh, do you know anything about widi ?
<jcastro> nothing
<rick_h_> yea, I stayed true to firewire for so long
<rick_h_> but gave up...but then esata was going to make it all better, but can't get things with ports on them :(
<rick_h_> hmm, I'll have to research. I bet we have an X guy somewhere I can bug about it maybe.
<rick_h_> I love the idea of docking to my external displays without docking :)
<jcastro> it's hard to find good esata
<jcastro> and then you get one
<jcastro> like on my microserver
<jcastro> and the idiots make it only support one drive
<rick_h_> doh!
<jcastro> so I can't just connect my old enclosure to my new server
<jcastro> I have to buy a new PCIE card, etc.
<rick_h_> I just want to keep windows on an external drive and boot it occassionally via esata, why can't that work
<rick_h_> waldo does it with his work laptop <3
<jcastro> that's sweet
<rick_h_> right, there's always the extra card options
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Anyone have any experience with the Netgear WNR3500L?
<snap-l> I'm attracted to it because it's marketed as an OSS router
<greg-g> no, but let me know, I'm living with a crappy EL5200 or some such
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBZY_loemUw
<snap-l> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> woot! ordered confirmed, est ship of the 11th
<rick_h_> there was no overnight shipping option though, wtf
<shakes808> good morning
<rick_h_> I guess I'll have to wait for the slow train from china
<rick_h_> morn
<shakes808> rick_h_: either I logged in on in the middle of a conversation or randomness.
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> ordered the new laptop, cranky it didn't have expidited shipping option
<rick_h_> so yea, middle of convo
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so 4.0.4 landed, and the phone now detects the dock, but still doesn't fit nicely. YOu have to hold it down to get contact with the pins to get power/audio out (but it works now)
<shakes808> gotchya.
<rick_h_> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4067372 hah, love this only because I started reading cryptinomicon and was introduced to the term "F*** you money" in there
<brousch> Hm, had to fix another computer this morning. These things are starting to show their age (6 years)
<brousch> Mostly fans and power supplies luckily
<brousch> Shoot, I didn't know Brandon Rhodes wrote a Python book.
<brousch> http://rhodesmill.org/brandon/chapters/screen-scraping/
<rick_h_> yea, wrote a couple I believe (well was listed as co-author or something)
<brousch> I think I skipped that book because the title sounded uninsteresting
<rick_h_> yea, it looks like a bit of a cookbook
<rick_h_> I looked at it for some more recent twisted reading
<rick_h_> but not much twisted really in there
<snap-l> Good morning
<MaskedDriver> morning
<rick_h_> party!
<MaskedDriver> anybody here use a BNC?
<rick_h_> not that I'm aware of
<brousch> I don't even know what it is
<MaskedDriver> like ZNC or something like that (http://wiki.znc.in/ZNC)
<MaskedDriver> and IRC Bouncer
<MaskedDriver> an*
<brousch> I use Pidgin. These geekers mostly use screen and irssi or weechat
<rick_h_> hey, tmux and irrsi :P
<MaskedDriver> I'm trying to get my vanity host set up but I'm assuming it's not going to happen cause I doubt my ISP will set up a dns forwarding record for me. Not as a residential customer w/ Dynamic IP
<snap-l> I use tmux and weechat
<snap-l> but I use it on my local machine
<MaskedDriver> I use IceChat at work and mIRC on my gaming rig and XChat on my laptop
<MaskedDriver> I set up a ZNC server last night but then realized it's not going to do what I want it to do
<MaskedDriver> though keeping me logged in even when I D/C a client is a neat trick
<MaskedDriver> keeps logging even if I'm not in, so no talking crap about me behind my back ;)
<brousch> There are private channels for that
<MaskedDriver> brousch: aye
<brousch> #ubuntu-us-mi-gossip
<snap-l> I thought it was #ubuntu-us-mi-brouch-keep-out?
<MaskedDriver> though it appears it may use a lot of data. Between my file/web/dns/etc servers and the ZNC server I might reach the Uverse 250GB limit
<snap-l> whoops
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: lol
<rick_h_> widox: dude! which dock did you get?
<snap-l> http://www.badassoftheweek.com/lamaupin.html
<rick_h_> be with me...I've setup the wife's laptop, in windows, to run JS test files from my dev machine to hopefully make this crap work in IE
<MaskedDriver> ugh.. how far back do you have to be compatible with?
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: hopefully only back to IE8
<brousch> rick_h_: Creating your own selenium test lab?
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: yea, IE8
<rick_h_> brousch: basically I guess, or home made yeti cluster I guess
<MaskedDriver> good. IE7 and IE6 have been the bane of my existance since I got into webdev
<snap-l> rick_h_: ISn't that what VMs are for?
<snap-l> Spin 'em up, knock 'em down
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: ^ that's what I was gonna ask lol
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, but I need a windows disk to do the vim, and a cd drive
<rick_h_> I've got a windows install cd somewhere, I bought a legit copy a couple of years ago
<MaskedDriver> no Technet subscription?
<snap-l> I think I have the ISO that we used for our VMs from OU
<brousch> Just make an ISO of your WinXP CD
<MaskedDriver> then you can just get the ISOs and install from that
<snap-l> not sure if it'll work with your key, though
<rick_h_> ummmm, no. They don't tend to give MS lots of $$ at canonical :P
<rick_h_> well this was a win7 disk
<MaskedDriver> lol, well if they want you to be compatible with it, they should
<rick_h_> I got it for using my damn mic input box for OLF
<brousch> You can still do it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, right
<rick_h_> but yea, my goal when the new laptop gets here is to run a full win7 or 8 VM on there
<rick_h_> I'll find my code/windows disk. Just don't use the thing but once a year any more and it gets buried in the files somewhere
<rick_h_> for today, it's the wife's laptop :)
<brousch> oh wait, they have the free IE testing VMs
<brousch> Let me find them. It's legit
<snap-l> brousch: Do tell?
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: I actually really enjoy the Win8 experience. I was using it as my daily driver on my gaming rig until I got my Naga mouse and the drivers/synapse utility weren't compatible
<rick_h_> blasphemy!
<MaskedDriver> which part?
<MaskedDriver> cause I know that several of the things I said in my last sentence could be interpretted as such
<brousch> This looks like it http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/test-websites-in-internet-explorer-9-8.html
<rick_h_> yea, basically all of it
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: lol. I use what works, I don't put all my eggs into one basket
<brousch> Oh shit, you might need 45GB of free space
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, checking it out
<rick_h_> ok, I have it to spare on this machine, and don't need IE7
<rick_h_> the new ssd is a 240gb one so will be fine there
<MaskedDriver> mother of god 240GB SSD? lucky
<rick_h_> well it goes bigger, but 240 is the sweet price point
<brousch> I think they last 30 days, but that page says you can get 60 out of them. Then you have to re-download them
<rick_h_> paid about the same for that as my 160gb on this machine
<MaskedDriver> OCZ?
<rick_h_> I'm an intel fanboi, will be my 4th one
<rick_h_> never had an issue in them
<MaskedDriver> blasphemy ;)
<brousch> These Sandisk SSDs are holding up so far, but are only a month or two old.
<MaskedDriver> I still haven't taken the plunge into SSD. I've got a diamond to buy so I've been saving money like a mad man
<brousch> It's so nice
<rick_h_> I can't go back, had to get one for the desktop because it felt so slow
<MaskedDriver> booting up in 5 seconds.. I'm sure it is
<brousch> But sometimes I don't notice when I start to swap
<rick_h_> swap? that was teh hard part. The x230 can have 16gb of ram. I so wanted to upgrade there
<MaskedDriver> SWTOR will play like a dream with one lol
<rick_h_> but I've never maxed the 8gb in this one, so saved the pennies
<brousch> Right. I'm still on the old Dell, so sometimes I dip into swap for a GB when Chromium gets uppity
<brousch> And sometimes I don't notice because the speed doesn't change much
<rick_h_> good grief... http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11575
<MaskedDriver> seriously? you have to download each individal part file?
<brousch> rick_h_: Thus the scripts that automate it for you
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but I get nervous running scripts so went looking at how to do it manually
<MaskedDriver> yeah, but why can't they just tarball all of them into one?
<brousch> rick_h_: The script is on github
<snap-l> tar....ball... ?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea
<MaskedDriver> zip? lol
<brousch> https://raw.github.com/xdissent/ievms/master/ievms.sh
<brousch> MS should torrent those
<MaskedDriver> brousch: tor....rent...?
<snap-l> np: Bela Lugosi's Dead
<brousch> Honestly, I didn't know he was still alive
<snap-l> brousch: Oh FFS
<brousch> eh?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bela_Lugosi's_Dead
<MaskedDriver> lol
<brousch> Ah, so I was right. He was already dead.
 * brousch thinks unintentional trolls are still the best trolls
<jrwren> how you liking stephenson?
<jrwren> rick_h_: I'm trying to save up my "F*** you money" :)
<jrwren> then I can be cool like Shuttleworth ;]
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: doesn't freenode give you vanity host? see mine.
<MaskedDriver> not by default I don't think.. what does mine show to you?
<jrwren> snap-l: I got your bauhause ref.
<jrwren> but I can't spell
<rick_h_> jrwren: this book is a bit strange. I've read something else by him I thoguht I liked but blanking on what it was right now
<snap-l> snow crash?
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: i see your hostname. but I'm about/csharp/regular/jrwren
<jrwren> snap-l: is our #ubuntu-us-mi channel legit enough that we can hand out masks?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, read that one and it was cool
<MaskedDriver> yeah, I want mine to show idontlikethisgame.com
<jrwren> oh.
 * snap-l had a copy of Cryptonomicon on his Palm, but never finished it. Now I'm going to have to buy it again. :(
<jrwren> i thought you just wanted to hide your source ip.
<MaskedDriver> but I don't think that's possible the way I'm connecting through a BNC unless my ISP will set up a proper forwarding dns record
<jrwren> if you want something custom, you'll have to go get it.
<snap-l> jrwren: iirc, masks are by orgs.
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: you just need the right ptr record, which most ISPs do not do.
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: there is also ipv6 :)
 * snap-l really doesn't know much about how to get those set up
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: right, right... I mean, it's not like I do or say anything in IRC that I don't want people to know who I am or where I come from, but it'd be cool
<MaskedDriver> I'd definitely have to go through my ISP.. you do a host 99.8.173.75 and its what you see here
<MaskedDriver> and like I said earlier, I doubt they'd jump through hoops for a residential, dynamic IP user
<jrwren> not likely
<MaskedDriver> though they did open port 25 for me with little complaint, but DNS changes aren't as easy as opening a port
<brousch> Have you guys been listening to Radio Free Python? http://radiofreepython.com/
<MaskedDriver> if I listen to something like that while I'm at work, I'd fall asleep, then I'd get fired, then I'd come for you lol ;)
<jrwren> if you only care about freenode and not other irc, you can get a cloak: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<jrwren> brousch: I've tried but its not in ITMS
<brousch> jrwren: :P
<brousch> It has an RSS feed. Get a read podcast client
<brousch> real
<rick_h_> brousch: listened to the first couple and stopped
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: I'll take a look
<brousch> OK, I just started on ep 7
<MaskedDriver> you know of any network staffers off the top of your head jrwren?
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: no, sorry
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: np... it's not that big of a deal. Just something I thought would be pretty cool to do
<MaskedDriver> then when I learned it was in my ISP's hands, I pretty much gave up
<MaskedDriver> ZNC is cool, regardless
<MaskedDriver> I can always use TOR or something if I really want to get rid of my IP address
<jrwren> its great that you learned how DNS works :)
<MaskedDriver> lol indeed
<MaskedDriver> my DNS experience pretty much stopped outside of the LAN
<jrwren> root servers and recursion is great to know
<MaskedDriver> agreed
<jrwren> *required knowledge* imo
<MaskedDriver> yeah. it's useful stuff
<shakes808> Here is another vid of the flying cat.... near the end it chases cows http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/322606/28/Artist-turns-dead-cat-into-flying-cat-copter
<MaskedDriver> that was easy
<jrwren> the little things about python annoy me. no ++ operator. really? but i want to incremement. How is this better?
<jrwren> shakes808: that cat copter made me laugh a lot. i had to explain it to my girl though. She thought it wsa pretty weird.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren can't you do counter += 1 ?
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: yes, he can but he likes his ++
<rick_h_> jrwren: I think the thing is that there's no pre inc and such
<rick_h_> so it's just explicit
<jrwren> haha, just found a half dozen lines with ; at the end of 'em. i write that shit yesterday.
<jrwren> rick_h_: yeah, i'm just old school I guess.
<jrwren> +=1 works just fine. its just not what I wanted ot type.
<brousch> jrwren: I try to use ++ every month or so
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I know. It's one of the things I had to get used to
<jrwren> i guess some parts of programming are muscle memory like editor command s;0
<rick_h_> dammit IE8 sucks balls...remember when this was the 'improvement'?
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, definitely. I keep mixing up self, this in my work between python and JS
<rick_h_> semicolons, var something, etc
<jrwren> *nod*
<brousch> I always forget semicolons in Javascript, but it works anyways. That hurts my mind
<rick_h_> jslint!!!!
 * rick_h_ gets the lint stick out of the closet
<brousch> rick_h_: Are you using the free IE images from MS?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, the download script failed on me
<rick_h_> I did find my windows disks and key I bought, but new laptop will be here next week and don't want to have to go through two activations setup
<brousch> Also it will take a day to install, download updates, reboot, install updates, reboot, install updates, reboot
<jrwren> brousch: implicit semicolons in JS can be VERY dangerous, but you probably know this.
<brousch> Rile up Rick post of the day: "... since I've started to believe that doctest is, despite all, generally better testing and documentation than unittests ever can be." http://blaag.haard.se/The-very-best-of-PyCon-was-a-REPL/
<snap-l> *boom*
<brousch> I see the mushroom cloud!
<MaskedDriver> run
<jrwren> yeah, that guy is looney.
<jrwren> not I don't know if I should finish reading about bpython > ipython or not.
<MaskedDriver> I enjoy my fingers too much to partake in any of this conversation
<shakes808> jrwren: My buddy said "It's terrifying But also the most beautiful thing I've ever seen"
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> *sigh* this is why you need the downvote and your website goes away button
<shakes808> Sorry for the late response, wasn't at my desk
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h_> <3 bpython ... "you break cut'n paste to testable code example from the standard REPL"
<rick_h_> DON"T CUTnPASTE CODE!!!
<rick_h_> that's not how you 'run tests'
<rick_h_> make run
<rick_h_> ./setup.py test
<rick_h_> nosetests src
<snap-l> rick_h_: If it weren't for Cut 'n Paste, there would be no Javascript. ;)
<jrwren> copy and paste is fine if its from a spike in repl into a file
 * rick_h_ goes back to doing productive test writing in JS without copy/paste 
<brousch> Someone has to make the code I copy and paste from. That someone is rick_h_
<rick_h_> doctests are evil compounding piles of doom with state more polluted than the flint river
<MaskedDriver> like the olentangy river in Columbus?
<MaskedDriver> if that's the case, it's a problem
<rick_h_> imo :)
<MaskedDriver> what's your opinion on cherrypy?
<snap-l> she's my
<MaskedDriver> your.....?
<jrwren> its minimal but reasonably mature.
<shakes808> ...cherry pie
<shakes808> Cool drink of water such a sweet surprise
<shakes808> Taste so good make a grown man cry
<shakes808> Sweet cherry pie, yeah
<jrwren> its only does part of hte picture these days and maybe is not opinionated enough.
<jrwren> you pick an ORM, hopefully that means SQLAlchemy
<brousch> MaskedDriver: I like it. It was the first Python web framework I tried. It was the first that worked on Python3 and the first on Android
<jrwren> but that means no integration with the ORM too, which is a bummer.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren any suggestions?
<jrwren> django :)
<MaskedDriver> ok
<jrwren> was j/k with djanog.
<jrwren> nothing against django
<jrwren> but I think pylons is most interesting these days.
<brousch> Also, it is a production-ready wsgi server, so you don't have to muck about with different servers in dev and production
<MaskedDriver> stop trolling ;) I haven't really dealt with python web frameworks so I'm gullible when it comes to this lol
<MaskedDriver> I've dealt with Zope and Plone in the past
<brousch> jrwren: Pylons is dead
<rick_h_> /pylons/pyramid
<MaskedDriver> so no on pylons?
<jrwren> yeah, that.
<jrwren> i consider it a rename.
<rick_h_> it's vastly different code underneath though, but yea
<jrwren> zope and plone, zomg, I never could figure them out.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren not too difficult when you have to build a gigantic network of websites out of them
<MaskedDriver> wait... that's wrong
<MaskedDriver> it's very difficult when you have to build a gigantic network of websites out of them.
<MaskedDriver> there that looks better
<brousch> CherryPy is good for a small, focused project that doesn't need a lot of stuff the bigger frameworks give you
<brousch> Otherwise look at Django or Pyramid
<MaskedDriver> I just want something to refine my python skills
<MaskedDriver> I need to get out of php
<MaskedDriver> it's going to lead to a dead end quickly
<MaskedDriver> (in my career)
<brousch> Find something you want to build, then build it. then build it again with something else
<rick_h_> flask seems to be the common starting point these days
<brousch> Flask is nice
<brousch> Like CherryPy, but with a community and plugins
<MaskedDriver> k thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into it
<nullspace> MaskedDriver: if only you knew the power of the Java side
<nullspace> except swing, stay the hell away from that
<nullspace> and awt too, that's pretty bad as well
<jrwren> haha.
<jrwren> well, its certainly evil.
<jrwren> it runs on a very evil thing called a JVM controlled by a very evil company known as oracl.
<nullspace> waht do you think the ee in j2ee stands for
<jrwren> EXTRA EVIL!
<nullspace> evil edition
<nullspace> exagerately evil?
<nullspace> been meaning to play with Qt Jambi though
<rick_h_> oh oh oh, can I play? evil enraged!
<snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Java-Evil-Edition-orfjackal_net-lores.png
<nullspace> didn't you heard though that oracle lost ?
<rick_h_> doh, snap-l wins, he brought visuals
<nullspace> hear even
<brousch> I need that on a sticker
<rick_h_> I hear they're still in business...and still in a ton of control, and java still sucks :P
<jrwren> yes, oracle lost. YAYA
<jrwren> its still a very poor langauge on features.
<snap-l> Java is like the Katamari Damacy of languages
<snap-l> it started off very small, and then acquired other features and platforms
<snap-l> The core of the language was pretty nice in 1.1, but it kept getting bigger and bigger
<snap-l> until the barrier to entry to do anything with it got so high
<nullspace> I think that is an imginary boundry your projecting
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/682128/how-to-get-started-with-java-web-development
<nullspace> oh well yeah why the fuck would you want to build a a java weba pplet
<nullspace> that's just painful
<snap-l> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Getting_started_with_Java_ME
<nullspace> we went with Java because of the documentation and it's intgration ease with POI, Cayenne, Solr, and a number of other libraries we use or want to use
<snap-l> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/newtojava/overview/index.html
<jcastro> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4069164
<jcastro> ^^^ fishing for upvotes
<snap-l> nullspace: And that's fine. If it works for your ecosystem, great
<snap-l> Every time I think about Java development, I feel like i have to eat a mountain to shit out a molehill
<rick_h_> jcastro: upped
<snap-l> like the old joke: how to make $1 million in the publishing industry
<nullspace> snap-l: I'd feel that way with any language choice for the size of our project
<snap-l> step one: start with $100 million
<nullspace> though honestly flying saucer saved use months of work exporting to a pdf
<snap-l> nullspace: Again, different needs
<snap-l> If you're happy with what you have, that's awesome. well done. Party on.
<snap-l> Just don't expect me to sing the praises of Java any time soon. my days of singing for Java are long gone
<nullspace> I've accepted that
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2007/09/22/hello-world-why-java-never-was-my-language-of-choice/
<nullspace> I've defended python from python haters
<snap-l> rick_h_: Now you get to work with Mark Ramm. ;)
<snap-l> Which is awesome.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, he's over in another area, but maybe down the road
<snap-l> Yeah, that's how it was for me at GKNT
<snap-l> http://learningthreejs.com/blog/2012/06/05/3d-physics-with-three-js-and-physijs/
<_stink_> that link made my firefox unhappy :P
<snap-l> um, sorry?
<_stink_> i'll choose to blame firefox.
<snap-l> Good, because I wasn't taking any of it. :)
<_stink_> hehe
<brousch> jrwren: A recap of a Timezone talk at DjangoCon.eu (which is going on now) http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/06/05/its_about_time.html
<jrwren> snap-l: i disagree with your assertion. the core of the java language was not pretty nice in 1.1
<MaskedDriver> java? pretty nice?
<jrwren> i'm not a python hater, but I'll cmoplain about its warts all day long, just like I will about C#
<jrwren> java on the other hand, has more warts than smoothness, so I'm a hater :)
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: what language do you prefer? C++?
<jrwren> at this point, I don't htink I have preference.
<rick_h_> all languages have plus/minus. There's a reason that cool things like lucene, etc are in Java
<rick_h_> hadoop, jenkins, lots of big java projects out there
<jrwren> rick_h_: other than that the original devs didn't know any better?
<rick_h_> I think it's more than that though. Most things, if good idea, are just stolen/ported
<rick_h_> see django
<rick_h_> the fact that they're big projects, with big communities, moving forward shows there must be something there that works
<rick_h_> android as well
<jrwren> wtf, people congrating mark ramm on twitter, but mark hasn't tweeted in long time.
<rick_h_> everyone loves to say android is linux, but it's more java than linux tbh
<rick_h_> he did tweet today, joined canonical
<brousch> rick_h_: Get yourself botbrew and you'll change your mind about Android Linux
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/markramm/status/210044248496668672
<jrwren> oh, i need to learn how to use twitter :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: i agree completely.
<brousch> Heh, I forgot about the Mark Ramm thing. My secret SF inside source told us about it a few weeks ago
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> Can someone explain to me why this is awesome? https://github.com/jorgebastida/glue
<rick_h_> brousch: beause doing sprites is a pita?
<rick_h_> and sprites are awesome
<brousch> They are?
<rick_h_> yes, go look at your network panel in your browser and count how many .png .gif .jpg files come down
<MaskedDriver> brousch: yep
<rick_h_> replace all those with 1 http request and you're happy camper
<rick_h_> and it's cached, everyone has it cached just by needing one image in a sprite
<jrwren> FAST
<Blazeix> also no flash of downloaded hover content
<brousch> So you plop all the little icons onto one big image, and then split it up client side?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: +1
<rick_h_> brousch: no, you make them backgrounds and size it to the icon size
<jrwren> brousch: yup, yslow will recommend this.
<Blazeix> brousch: you use css background viewports
<rick_h_> then you move the background an offset to center over the image you want displayed
<brousch> Seems hackish
<Blazeix> shameless plug, a simple site with css sprites is my own site :) http://fuqua.io/
<rick_h_> https://launchpad.net/+icing/rev15353/icon-sprites.png
<_stink_> incrementing your counter by one right now, Blazeix
<jrwren> 64x22031 WTF
<Blazeix> also amazon.com http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/gno/beacon/BeaconSprite-US-01._V141013396_.png
<rick_h_> didn't I tell you? generating sprites is a pita, so we cheat
<rick_h_> one image wide, stacked veritically so we only have to offset Y
<rick_h_> brousch: http://fringefocus.com/2010/tutorial/css-sprites-theyre-awesome-use-them
<rick_h_> seems like an ok read at quick glance
<Blazeix> another good read is http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites
<rick_h_> ah yea, should have thought to check them
<brousch> So like javascript combine and min for icons
<rick_h_> in a sense sure
<brousch> This gives me an idea
<jrwren> make the rails asset pipeline do it for you?
<rick_h_> heh, there you go
<rick_h_> but I don't want my web framework doing all that magic for me ugh
<brousch> At last year's BarCampGR I had the digital session grid split up from a photo, so it ended up being like 30 images, which was kind of annoying to download. Maybe it could be done much more efficiently with something like this
<jrwren> nor should it. it is a waste of cycles to do it every request. do it at build time and be done
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1 make ftw!
<rick_h_> yay! more 4g in MI. Traverse city. Could have used that a couple weeks ago
<brousch> Thanks for the sprite education
<MaskedDriver> lol I'm in TC this weekend
<MaskedDriver> score
<rick_h_> brousch: np, I know all this and still dont use them but font icons
<brousch> Well it does look like a PITA to make and maintain them compared to separate images
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: not sched until 21st: http://www.androidcentral.com/verizon-announces-new-lte-markets-indiana-michigan
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, so that's why a tool that automates putting together and generating the css rules rocks
<MaskedDriver> le'sigh
<nullspace> the dungeon collapsed.... stupid screen
<brousch> MaskedDriver: Oh! We totally left out a Python web framework you might want to check out. Web2Py!
<MaskedDriver> brousch: thanks
<MaskedDriver> infoworld's 2012 technology of the year award winnter
<brousch> It's one of the few things that could make rick_h_ explode more readily than Django or doctests
<brousch> So it's got that going for it, which is fun
<MaskedDriver> he doesn't like it?
<rick_h_> It's right up there with doctests
<rick_h_> if you want to do python wrong...have at it. Or, just pick up PHP and be done with it
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: you're an angry man who hates everything awesome ;)
<Blazeix> except for Awesome
<rick_h_> pretty much, didn't take you that long to figure out. You're kind of smart :)
<rick_h_> Awesome is awesome!
<rick_h_> http://awesome.naquadah.org/
<MaskedDriver> lol thanks, I'm pretty good at picking up social queues
<Blazeix> yikes, web2py's website sure looks... corporate.
<rick_h_> sorry, getting bitter. Doing JS tests that fail and getting them into IE
<MaskedDriver> too bad you're not working with Django or Doctests.. that'd be much more fun
<MaskedDriver> you should switch to jQuery too... stat
<rick_h_> it is django :P
<MaskedDriver> lol oh
<rick_h_> but not directly atm, indirect front end
<MaskedDriver> well s*** it's less funny since that's the case :(
<rick_h_> did you know that node events don't fire unless the node is in the dom...doh
<MaskedDriver> I did not
<MaskedDriver> I thought JS could find things that weren't there
<MaskedDriver> I'm a nub though
<rick_h_> it's a particular mix of library, test, etc code that just made me discover this
<MaskedDriver> when you could have just looked at the DOM and been done with it lol
<MaskedDriver> I lost all respect for awesome
<MaskedDriver> read the entire site front page and found this: This gonna be LEGEN... wait for it... DARY!
<rick_h_> oh come on, great show! :P
<MaskedDriver> anywho, I have a meeting with GPS tracking folks for a big project we have going on in the next couple months
<MaskedDriver> be back soon
 * MaskedDriver is now away - Reason : Meeting
<brousch> This is what reminded me of Web2Py https://github.com/mdipierro/workflow
<rick_h_> man, great read: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem
<rick_h_> despite how it turned out, wish I could have been on that ride
<rick_h_> boooo http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
<snap-l> rick_h_: Boo as in it's not loading?
<brousch> OMG FIX IT NOW
 * MaskedDriver is no longer away : Gone for 1 hour 8 minutes 21 seconds
<brousch> Thank you for that report
<jrwren> away messages are generally frowned upon in irc
<MaskedDriver> didn't realize I had it on sorry
<brousch> Silliness
<MaskedDriver> new IRC client had it on by default
<Milyardo> New IRC client? Didn't know a new version of irssi came out
<MaskedDriver> lol
<jrwren> unless its a remote security vuln, i don't think i'd care if new irssi came out :)
<jrwren> ooh shiney! http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SymbolType
<greg-g> wait, really, a new version of irssi?
<greg-g> I thought it was done
<Blazeix> no, not really. no new irssi.
<Blazeix> however, there is a brand-spanking-new version of weechat.
<shakes808> night all
<greg-g> g'night? it is only 5:25!
 * greg-g is in DC, hence EDT
<snap-l> greg-g: DC? Say hello to the government for me
<brousch> BLOW EM UP!
<rick_h_> greg-g: hey, say hi to my VA family while you're out there
<rick_h_> they're on the app trail so maybe you can get a day hike in :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-06
<rick_h_> phew, love this weather
<rick_h_> time to catch up on that rss list
<snap-l> OK, this is weird
<snap-l> having a bunch of sites not show up anymore
<MaskedDriver> ?
<snap-l> realindustrialradio.com, eraless.com
<MaskedDriver> eraless.com is loading for me
<MaskedDriver> realindustrialradio.com isn't resolving to anything for me
<MaskedDriver> eraless is resolving to a proper IP address
<MaskedDriver> surpasshosting.com?
<MaskedDriver> owned by HostDime.com
<MaskedDriver> snap-l should realindustrialradio.com resolve to the same place?
<MaskedDriver> ls
<MaskedDriver> lol guess I didn't click into putty again
<MaskedDriver> ok bedtime
<MaskedDriver> catch you all later
<rick_h> morning party people
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h> that good eh?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not bad, just slow
<rick_h> yea, understand that.
<rick_h> dropping off the boy has turned into 20min horse whispering to get out of there
<snap-l> lovely
<shakes808> good morning
<rick_h> shakes808: morning, got code for you if you're ready
<shakes808> alright
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/680/
<rick_h> sorry, was afk when you pinged later on, and you were gone when I got back
<rick_h> shakes808: so this is what I *think* is going down, and why your split magic fails is that it doesn't leave the Store part in tact
<shakes808> Yeah, for whatever reason when it split 'Store 0001' it made it 'Store,0001'
<rick_h> well you asked if it was the same as this code and I'm saying most definitely not the same
<shakes808> alright
<rick_h> shakes808: see, that sounds like something was trying to string-fiy the split array. since you'd get [Store, 0001] or something
<rick_h> but hard to guess this without seeing the code/etc
<shakes808> The code that you pasted: parseInt("Store 0001".split(' ')[1]
<rick_h> put a closing paren on that
<rick_h> but yea
<shakes808> The split would happen and then the parsing would happen on the 0001
<shakes808> right?
<rick_h> parseInt("Store 0001".split(' ')[1])
<shakes808> yeah
<rick_h> right, splits, grabs index 1, and then parses as an int
<rick_h> but what I'm saying is that leaves you with just a 1
<rick_h> while this other code you pasted me ends up with 'Store 1'
<rick_h> unless I'm not guessing wtf CALC.replace does correctly
<shakes808> Correct. I would have to cat the [0] + [1]
<rick_h> that's a library/etc that's not standard JS
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Yeah that is from the proprietary software
<rick_h> if you console.log the method though you can view the source code easy enough
<shakes808> getting that 1 by itself was what I was trying to do for displaying purposes
<rick_h> right, gotcha
<shakes808> Thank you for your help :D
<rick_h> np, hope you get it all set
<shakes808> You all might like this :D http://shirt.woot.com/
<rick_h> and to carry on yesterday's theme...die IE die
<shakes808> +1
<MaskedDriver> agreed
<rick_h> well, at least there's a ticket for this current issue
<MaskedDriver> which particular issue?
<rick_h> google doodle is kind of cool today
<rick_h> http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui3/ticket/2530063
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: ^
<MaskedDriver> milestone changed to FUTURE
<MaskedDriver> that must give you a lot of hope
<MaskedDriver> and yeah the doodle is pretty cool
<brousch> Heh, I just drove by the Getty drive-in in Muskegon on Sunday
<shakes808> Lenovo deals http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/301486
<shakes808> There are others on here for laptops http://www.techbargains.com/ just search lenovo and you will see them.
<rick_h> just gave them all my $$ so think I'm done for a bit
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes8081> ??? My IRC just got disconnected for some reason
<rick_h> that'll teach you to laugh at me :P
<rick_h> networks, can't live with em, can't live without them
<shakes8081> lo
<shakes8081> l
<MaskedDriver> yo I heard you like dcing bro
<rick_h> http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2012/06/the-avengers-find-their-way-using-cinema-4d-and-the-city-kit/ cool read
<brousch> Wow. I didn't pay that much attention to the HUD
<brousch> I just assumed it was fluff
<snap-l> I <3 effects teams.
<snap-l> I'll sit and watch the making of Titanic faster than I'll EVER sit and watch the damn movie
<snap-l> Also, git gives you super powers.
<rick_h> hah, yes it does
<brousch> So do shrooms, but I don't see you using them
<snap-l> That's because they don't run under Linux
<MaskedDriver> I laughed
<rick_h> *sigh* another password mess
<brousch> They're easier to sort out if you just store them unencrypted
<brousch> Save yourself some time
<devinheitmueller> brousch: even easier:  just set them all to "<enter>"
<brousch> D00d, that is brilliant
<devinheitmueller> Thank you.  :-)
<brousch> Heh, reminds me of one of our systems. It stores the passwords unencrypted and doesn't even ask for a username. You just type the password
 * rick_h pretends he didn't see that
<brousch> Proprietary system. I didn't make this thing ;)
<brousch> I just realized they've started dipping into Internet usable parts of their application. That is scary
<rick_h> there, linked in password changed. Thank you lastpass.
<snap-l> http://geek.theresumator.com/apply/job_20120424231805_RZK7WDBL47C89LMY/Principal-Software-Engineer.html?source=LINK
<rick_h> yea, saw that. Where's wolfger these days? He's the now resident perl guru right?
<brousch> Hm, haven't seen him in a while
<snap-l> Chrysler built a better firewall
<snap-l> Might be up my alley, but I don't see Slashdot being Geeknet much longer
<snap-l> (personal conjecture.)
<rick_h> yea, I don't know the internals, but that whole scene seems a bit unstable
<brousch> I haven't heard anything since the announcement they were "maximizing shareholder value" a few weeks ago
<snap-l> Well, the whole SlashBI (which was the worst name for a site since expertsexchange) thing pretty much leads me to believe the geeks are losing control of the ship
<snap-l> s/losing control/losing more control/
<MaskedDriver> Yahoo's new browser's website rocks so hard it crashed my browser
<brousch> Eh?
<MaskedDriver> http://axis.yahoo.com
<MaskedDriver> read an article on it last night and thought I'd take a look. I love that it's available for apple devices only
<MaskedDriver> anyway, went to watc hthe video and it crashed chrome
<brousch> Works for me
<MaskedDriver> yeah, I had a lot of tabs open
<MaskedDriver> but yeah, the desktop version is a joke. It's just a plugin for chrome or firefox
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: available for chrome != apple device
<snap-l> yawn
<rick_h> hah, man bad day to hold linked in stock http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/your-iphone-calendar-isnt-privateat-least-if-you-use-the-linkedin-app/
<brousch> Good quick read http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/06/06/flask-django-sucks.html
<brousch> And the slides https://speakerdeck.com/u/kennethreitz/p/flasky-goodness
<Blazeix> MaskedDriver: i enjoyed this blog post re: the axis browser: http://dcurt.is/axis
<jrwren> looking for feedback on this kind of make file for a small single module python project. http://paste.mitechie.com/show/681/
<rick_h> looking
<rick_h> jrwren: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/682/
<rick_h> jrwren: I messsed up the filename in target, but hopefully that gets the idea, hopefully more generic/reusable
<rick_h> and shorter to read
<jrwren> rick_h: nice, TY
<rick_h> np, and you don't need the touch command bit since you have the file
<jrwren> shell which python would be same as just python though, wouldn't it?
<rick_h> I'd have that do a wget or git clone or whatever to get the file
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, but now that it's a var, you can pass in a diff python to test
<rick_h> or pick up venv, etc
<jrwren> good.
<rick_h> make PY=/usr/bin/python3
<jrwren> what do you mean wget it?
<rick_h> for instance
<jrwren> OH! sweet. nice call.
<rick_h> jrwren: well for me I don't have the original .py file
<rick_h> so I had to create it
<rick_h> but no idea how your file appears
<jrwren> oh, ok. I'll just stick this with the original py
<rick_h> right, cool
<jrwren> i'll just drop the $(TARGET): rule
<rick_h> right
<jrwren> oh, but then I get no rule to make target... hrm.
<rick_h> my filename was wrong
<rick_h> fix the TARGET :=
<jrwren> oh, it looked right on first inspect
<rick_h> yea, I typod it in hacking this out
<jrwren> rock on. ty
<rick_h> np, Makefile fun ftw
<jrwren> what do you think of a clean: rm $(testout) $(lintout) ?
<rick_h> yea, that's cool, but in caps
<rick_h> and .PHONY: clean
<rick_h> at the top since it doesn't generate any files
<rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2145590/what-is-the-purpose-of-phony-in-a-makefile
<snap-l> "Father's day deals for the man who felt you kick inside him for nine months"
<snap-l> -- Groupon
<brousch> eh?
<snap-l> Only if you're a seahorse
<brousch> Sperm only live a few days, so that doesn't make sense
<brousch> Also they don't have legs, so I think it's impossible for them to kick
<snap-l> brousch: Congratulations, you just showed more biological knowledge than Groupon
<brousch> What's my prize?
<snap-l> me not calling you an idiot. :)
<rick_h> whoa http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/683/
<brousch> That prize sucks
<snap-l> rick_h: That is insane
<snap-l> although I like the business inside views
<snap-l> Took a virtual tour through a comic shop that way.
<rick_h> Brian: "Yes, in fact Google does have a fleet of planes with contractors that fly exclusively for Google. And the privacy issues is no different than we've had with aerial shots for years."
<rick_h> "Dude! Google owns planes! Crazy!"
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> OMG they must be rich!
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> And I for one welcome Google's street-view of the Marianis Trench
<snap-l> I fully expect some one to be planking down there
<rick_h> I've got a sweet spot for maps. It's one of those things that (especially when you get a smartphone) you forget what life was like before it was there
<snap-l> indeed
<brousch> I have no idea how I got anywhere before GPS
<snap-l> JoDee has a maps fixation
<brousch> I must have been hopelessly lost half the time
<snap-l> brousch: Tes
<snap-l> Yes, even
<rick_h> I mean, remember mapquest?
<rick_h> now we're coming back from the wedding I just pull out my phone, enter home, and hit navigation and it's getting me home
<rick_h> with 'betsy' calling out turns all the way wheee
<rick_h> but yellow pages? what yellow pages?
<snap-l> "I 1/4 mile, make a left turn onto oop-dyke road"
<snap-l> "Can't you dfollow directions, you idiot?"
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> Google maps took me down that little nearly-impassable alley when I visited snap-l
<brousch> I thought I was gonna get carjacked
<snap-l> brousch: That's because Google is trying to kill you.
<brousch> Possibly
<snap-l> You didn't sign up with Google Insurance, where they name themselves as the veneficiary, did you?
<brousch> Of course. I love all things Google!
<rick_h> 293559
<brousch> noted
<rick_h> heh, hey, I've gotten better at not hitting it
<greg-g> anyone have the password hash file that came from linkedin, want to see if I was a part of it :)
<brousch> http://www.mediafire.com/?n307hutksjstow3
<MaskedDriver> this legit?
<rick_h> find out in a second
<jrwren> that is the link from slashdot
<MaskedDriver> ok
<brousch> As legit as something on a shady file sharing website can be
<greg-g> buddy just posted https://github.com/hungtruong/LinkedIn-Password-Checker/tree/
<rick_h> looks like mine isn't in there
<brousch> rick_h: how did you check?
<rick_h> it's just sha1pass "YOURPASS" right?
<greg-g> I think so
<rick_h> hmm, nope, sha1pass must salt or something it's not consistant
<greg-g> ahh
<rick_h> ok, so put the password in a file, sha1sum filename
<rick_h> and grep for that?
<rick_h> that looks better, still not found
<jrwren> according to https://github.com/hungtruong/LinkedIn-Password-Checker/blob/master/linkedin.py
<jrwren> linked in throws away the first 6 bytes
<jrwren> hashlib.sha1("mypassword").hexdigest()[6:]
<rick_h> bah, just removed the files
<rick_h> doh
<jjesse> i like how the answer no matter is "change your password'
<greg-g> jrwren: actually, I think because some of the sha1s are zero-led with 6 0's for some reason
<jrwren> probably the lack of salt.
<rick_h> heh
<jrwren> they didn't understand salt
<jjesse> or pepper?
<greg-g> mmmm, shriracha
<snap-l> Honestly, just change it
<rick_h> yea, already done, but curious ntl
<snap-l> Lord knows what else is exposed
<snap-l> What really gets me is the nmber of people that are bitching that they have to change a dozen sites passwords because of this
<snap-l> "Have you learned nothing in the 21st century?"
<brousch> Geekers. Mine is in there
<rick_h> well just remember, all that means is that someone inthe database has that password
<brousch> using jrwren's technique and it has 6 0's in front
<rick_h> if 100 people have the same password it hashes the same and could only be in there once
<brousch> The password was quite uncommon
<brousch> I'm dd000000000000000000000000000000000000000med
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> it was password1234 wasn't it?
<rick_h> ilovemycat
<MaskedDriver> lol
<brousch> No, but my new one is. How'd you get that?!
<snap-l> fuck, that was my password
<MaskedDriver> none of my passwords are in there, so I'm golden
<snap-l> how did you find it?
<rick_h> I'm a major haxor
<MaskedDriver> my question is how did they only get SOME of the passwords?
<jrwren> its on github!
<rick_h> I'm guessing it's only the hard to crack.
<rick_h> with no salt, you can get them, unique them, remove the easy ones you can crack, and post the harder ones up for everyone to get in on
<MaskedDriver> ah
<rick_h> or else they only dumped the first 10M or whatever to get the data and get out
<snap-l> There's also rainbow tables of passwords out there
<brousch> They only got passwords of the most awesome people. That's why mine is in there and none of you lamers' is.
<snap-l> just generate a butt-ton of passwords, sha1sum them, and then compare
<snap-l> rather than do the hard work of reverse-engineering a hash, you can instead do some simple computes
<snap-l> which is why you should be using bcrypt. :)
<MaskedDriver> how do you not salt passwords? really
<rick_h> woot! new SSD is here
<MaskedDriver> it takes no time at all to generated a salted password
<brousch> What is salt?
<_Marcus> Something you use to make food taste better
<brousch> See. What's that got to do with a password?
<_Marcus> Nobody likes plain passwords. Salt makes your passwords taste much better.
<MaskedDriver> from LinkedIn Blog: Our security team continues to investigate this morningâs reports of stolen passwords. At this time, weâre still unable to confirm that any security breach has occurred. You can stay informed of our progress by following us on Twitter @LinkedIn and @LinkedInNews.
<MaskedDriver> yo dawg.. I heard you like denial
<MaskedDriver> though if the hacker is any good, he would have deleted any logs
<MaskedDriver> note: don't have logs go in default places. hide them, stupid
<greg-g> whoa, according to my buddy's python script, my password was in the dump
<greg-g> son of a
<MaskedDriver> that sucks
<jrwren> oh shit, linkedin is so incompetent they don't know what happened!
<snap-l> et's put it this way: they sent out a note about it at work
<snap-l> People are oing to freak no matter what they do at this point
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<rick_h> I want to see their graphite graph of signups vs account deletions today heh
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I mean, we're dealing with a bunch of people who name their password after their dog "because nobody will guess 'snickerdoodle' is py password"
<snap-l> as opposed to us programmer freaks who will name our dog after our password.
<MaskedDriver> snickerdoodle was not found
<MaskedDriver> lol
<snap-l> "Come here yahx2osheixiuGheo3Ieb0cai9fie3mu"
<MaskedDriver> sorry.. it looks like snickerdoodle WAS found
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> guess what password was found in the database?
<MaskedDriver> 'password'
<MaskedDriver> le'sigh
<snap-l> "linkedinsucks"
<MaskedDriver> was found
<snap-l> I'm totally naming my dog after pwgen 12 1
<snap-l> although I'll need to figure how many bits of entropy that is
<snap-l> don't want to have any naming collisions. ;)
<_Marcus> How do you check if your password was in the dump?
<MaskedDriver> 'holycrap' was found
<greg-g> _Marcus: see above, link to a github repo
<greg-g> oh, that was before you joined
<greg-g> https://github.com/hungtruong/LinkedIn-Password-Checker/blob/master/linkedin.py
<greg-g> err, https://github.com/hungtruong/LinkedIn-Password-Checker/tree/
<greg-g> or http://kryogenix.org/days/2012/06/06/how-i-checked-whether-my-linkedin-password-was-leaked
<snap-l> And just closed my linkedin account
<MaskedDriver> ^ me too
<brousch> Enjoy the unemployment line!
<MaskedDriver> lol because LinkedIn ever got me any jobs
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, like the Dice.com account
<snap-l> all that netted me was a few calls a year for the same Ford position
<brousch> LinkedIn is essential for networking with professionals who like to network professionally. Your career is doomed without it.
<MaskedDriver> I'm running a check against this: http://techland.time.com/2011/11/22/the-25-most-popular-and-worst-passwords-of-2011/
<MaskedDriver> at 12 and every one has been in there
<_stink_> hah
<shakes8081> :D
<Milyardo> I dunno, I've never had a LinkedIn account
<Milyardo> @brousch
<brousch> eh?
<MaskedDriver> brousch was just being sarcastic Milyardo
<jjesse> i'm sorry we don't allow sarcasm in this channel
<MaskedDriver> of COURSE you don't
<brousch> Well that's just great
<Milyardo> I see, I've actually heard some else say that about a month ago
<Milyardo> some people really think that
<MaskedDriver> those people call themselves "Social Media Experts"
<MaskedDriver> if I get an e-mail from someone from LinkedIn, I laugh and tell them I don't want to work for stalkers
<brousch> I'll be so happy when client side apps diaf. It took me 45 minutes to create a whole new server including migrating a bunch of legacy mysql data. It took me another 45 minutes to login to 3 desktops to change the odbc config
<jrwren> that is just a poorly designed app.
<brousch> Darn tootin
<brousch> You don't want more details
<jrwren> e.g. evernote, dropbox, twitter, all excellent desktop apps, none suffer from the config issue you just said.
<brousch> doesn't help that it's WinXP so I had to logut the user and login as admin to make the changes
<brousch> Then logout as admin and login as the user so they won't call me at 6AM saying their password doesn't work
<shakes8081> later, see you at CHC
<rick_h> jcastro: trouble maker
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> hey these eneloops are the coolest thing I've bought in a while
<rick_h> jcastro: now if only you'd take my word on the tiling WM it's be the new coolest :P
<rick_h> jcastro: 520 came in, just waiting on the x230 to leave manufacturing now dum da dum dum
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, didn't you hear? Lenovo filed for Ch. 11
<snap-l> HP is buying their laptop business
<rick_h> hah!
<snap-l> They're no longer making Thinkpads. They're now calling them 'paq pads
<snap-l> Your musical compatibility with whiprush is SUPER
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-07
<rick_h> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/684/
<widox> rick_h: http://vimium.github.com/
<snap-l> rick_h: Thank you.
<rick_h> snap-l: np
<derekv> yea, mistakes i've made ... one is not taking everything cool ive ever gotten to work and making it a script and stashing it somewhere
<shakes808> Good morning
<rick_h> morn
<MaskedDriver> morning
<rick_h> man is it nice out, I want to play hookie like no other today
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> getting a late start today.
<jjesse> monring
<snap-l> Python: The languge of consenting adults
<snap-l> I think that's the QoTD
<rick_h> that's a good day
<snap-l> Wondering what the catch-phrases of other languages would be.
<snap-l> Java: Don't touch that
<MaskedDriver> PHP: Be gentle... it's our first time.
<rick_h> http://lab.cubiq.org/css3mad/ kind of cool
<snap-l> Perl: Even we don't remember the safe word
<snap-l> rick_h: That is pretty sweer
<snap-l> sweet, even
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/cubiq/status/210659800550354945
<MaskedDriver> 5035 lines of CSS
<MaskedDriver> or 700 lines of js
<snap-l> â@freerobby: on the bright side, we finally have an answer to the question, âwhat wonât LinkedIn send me an email about?ââ
<shakes808> What is going on with the cubiq.org site? In IE it is all over the place. I am assuming that is the point? Fine in Chrome.
<brousch> I had an Ubuntu miracle last night
<brousch> I took the SSD with Kubuntu 12.04 64bit installed out of my 6 year old Dell D630 laptop and put it into my 3 year old MBP and it booted and ran fine
<brousch> Just had to install some wifi drivers and it was perfect
<rick_h> nice
<MaskedDriver> brousch: so you're one of THOSE people
<MaskedDriver> *Kubuntu*
<brousch> Hell yes
<brousch> Unity and I don't agree on how things should work. Kubuntu lets me set it up how I want it
<brousch> But I was amazed that I could move the whole drive into such a different laptop and it would just work
<brousch> Now I need a big sticker to cover the glowing apple
<rick_h> upgrading the wife's machine from 10.04 to 12.04...this shold be fun
<brousch> I thought she was on Windows
<rick_h> her laptop is dual boot
<rick_h> windows is just for work
<brousch> ah
<MaskedDriver> that's a huge upgrade
<MaskedDriver> I did an upgrade from 11.04 to 12.04 with little problem
<rick_h> reinstall really
<MaskedDriver> ah
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm going to reinstall my machine from 11.04 to 12.04
<snap-l> just have to find a spare drive to install to
<snap-l> and by spare, I mean purchase.
<brousch> I'm all 10.04 servers and 12.04 desktops/laptops now
<brousch> rick_h: You hear from PyOhio about your talk yet?
<MaskedDriver> I use CentOS for my server infrastructure
<brousch> Why do you hate yourself?
<MaskedDriver> elaborate?
<MaskedDriver> I had Ubuntu as servers for awhile but I ran into trouble during upgrades quite a bit. Switched to CentOS and all my problems went away
<brousch> Why would you upgrade servers?
<brousch> Servers are meant to sit there and run the same way forever
<MaskedDriver> seems like a very insecure philosophy
<brousch> Those are just security updates
<MaskedDriver> probably wat happened to linkedin
<rick_h> brousch: no, I think new talks just closed this week right?
<rick_h> I'm assuming it's accepted and figure I'll start July1 and spend the month working on it
<MaskedDriver> s/upgrades/updates
<MaskedDriver> I see what you're saying now
<MaskedDriver> *shrugs* just always had issues with any debian server build I've had
<MaskedDriver> might just be me.. idk.. CentOS works the best for me
<rick_h> *cough* ubuntu *cough*
<MaskedDriver> ubuntu on the desktops/laptops (except my gaming rig, obviously)
<MaskedDriver> use what works for you. That's my philosophy
<MaskedDriver> I'm not diehard anything... except diehard anti-iDevice
<snap-l> If Apple keeps stopping devices from being shipped, I'm going to be very anti-Apple
<snap-l> Getting tired of patent wars
<MaskedDriver> they're scared
<devinheitmueller> I'm waiting for one of the Android vendors to successfully block the iPhone from being imported.
<MaskedDriver> more Android devices are getting shipped with stuff that is better than what they can do. And that scares them
<brousch> devinheitmueller: Didn't they get the iPad blocked somewhere?
<devinheitmueller> I think the injunction got waived.
<MaskedDriver> China and I don't think it has anything to do with Android
<MaskedDriver> http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/12/07/ipad-sales-trademark/
<MaskedDriver> oh wait... Germany by Motorola
<MaskedDriver> but it didn't work
<MaskedDriver> http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-57319082-248/can-motorola-now-block-iphone-ipad-sales-in-germany-nope/
<devinheitmueller> If Apple can patent the damn rectangle, you would think those other vendors with hundreds of patents in RF technology would find *something* to block the iPhone on.
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> but they're not stupid sue-crazy like Apple
<MaskedDriver> they're turning into another Monster
<brousch> Heh, yeah, that's where I want to run my Linux servers http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/06/06/2150202/microsoft-to-run-linux-on-azure
<snap-l> Wow, didn't know Rick Copeland also left Sourceforge
<snap-l> http://blog.pythonisito.com/2012/06/python-and-mongodb-training-classes.html
<snap-l> I think Dave Brondsema is the only python developer I know there.
<snap-l> God bless the internet: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/index.php
<shakes808> lol WTH
<greg-g> snap-l: this was one of my profs in grad school: http://ylime.people.si.umich.edu/mySquirrels.html
<greg-g> also, there is a whole club at U-M (started by a classmate of mine, heh): http://www.michigansquirrels.com/
<snap-l> That's nuts
 * brousch groans
<brousch> I need to search a file for a string and replace every occurance of it
<brousch> sed?
<jrwren> haha... that's nuts, hahhaha i see what you did there.
<jrwren> pep8 is too strict
<snap-l> jrwren: line length?
<jrwren> i'm very non pep8 wiht shitspace after ( before ) same wiht [] and comma.
<jrwren> linelength is fine. I like 80cal
<jrwren> *80col
<rick_h> jrwren: wrong!
<rick_h> :)
<jrwren> I just installed pep8.vim and my fix-it experience is much nicer now
<jrwren> but 80+ issues is a lot
<rick_h> yea, need to have editor integration to mkeep at it until you're trained
<jrwren> what do you use?
<rick_h> jrwren: not really, the only issue is long error strings/etc
<jrwren> I'd prefer red squiggles.
<rick_h> I'm trying out syntastic with flake8
<rick_h> I used to just use ,M mapped to pep8 %
<jrwren> i've been doing syntastic with pyflakes
<rick_h> yea, pyflakes doesn't cover pep8, flake8 is supposed to combine both
<jrwren> maybe i should try flake8
<rick_h> but it's a bit fugly
<rick_h> jrwren: but I do run extra jenkins builds that run pep8/pylint and the violations plugin so I can track errors/issues
<jrwren> pypi slow for anyone?
<rick_h> can't tell, whole network is slow due to wife U1 syncing
<rick_h> you pulling packages or just using the website?
<rick_h> if pulling packages, setup mirrors in your config ot drop crate.io since it's s3 based
<jrwren> pulling packages.
<jrwren> drop crate.io ?
<jrwren> must have been issue here. its fine now
<rick_h> sorry, typing faster than it's displaying
<rick_h> crate.io is a pypi service thing that hsots packages you can fetch from
<rick_h> it's backed by s3 for serving the files, so pretty quick
<jrwren> i'll check it out, thanks.
<rick_h> http://jacobian.org/writing/when-pypi-goes-down/
<rick_h> % cat ~/.pip/pip.conf                                                                                                                                                            (rharding@toraken:..as/branches/trunk/)
<rick_h> [global]
<rick_h> index-url = http://simple.crate.io/
<rick_h> jrwren: also check out: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep381client
<jrwren> ty
<brousch> Ah, that was fun. Sed isn't so bad
<rick_h> sed ftw
<rick_h> or just vim
<brousch> I had about 40 files in various depths of folder hierarchy
<rick_h> yea, sed to the rescue then
<brousch> Tricky part was that it wouldn't let me change in place. I had to copy the file and output to a different file
<rick_h> grrr, U1 is irritating me.
<brousch> LAN Sync FTW
<brousch> Anything less is uncivilized
<snap-l> rick_h: It's probably the slowest way to sync two machines
<snap-l> hands down
<rick_h> meh, just trying to set her up with something that backs up
<rick_h> dogfood a little I guess
<rick_h> and it's built in vs setting up dropbox for her, she doesn't know the diff really
<snap-l> It's gotten a little better in 12.04, but it's still not magic like Dropbox
<rick_h> yea, her expectations are lower, which is sad...but oh well
 * rick_h goes on a U1 bug submission frenzy
<snap-l> just hang out in #ubuntuone and bitch there
<greg-g> rick_h: nice
<rick_h> this is kind of retarded, I mean really. So log into the website, hit the big files button, and 2/3 of my screen is crap on the bottom for ToS, Developer, About Us, etc
<greg-g> :) oh legal
<rick_h> yea, well just lists and lists of menus that takes up 4px my actual list of folders/files
<rick_h> at least collapse it
<rick_h> seriously... ok so tell me which project to file "sharing email is useless" under? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone/+filebug
<brousch> rick_h: Heh, that's the problem I have submitted half of my bugs to Ubuntu. What do I file it against?
<brousch> Also, my tense not so good
<greg-g> hilarious, that filebug page is worthless
<brousch> Another password leak? http://www.last.fm/passwordsecurity
<greg-g> way to hate your users, U1
<greg-g> brousch: yep
<MaskedDriver> oh ffs
<greg-g> brousch: just go ahead and update ALL your passwords everywhere every month, like god himself does.
<MaskedDriver> weekly
<MaskedDriver> cause it appears a new leak happens hourly
<brousch> But I don't even login to linkedin or last.fm every month!
<MaskedDriver> so every 15 minutes, you must change your passwords across the board
<greg-g> brousch: but if you don't change your password, the service will log you out.
<greg-g> er, wow, brain weirdness there, that's not what I meant to say.
 * greg-g goes to get something to drink
<brousch> I have a couple of sites where I don't even bother with remembering a password. I login so infrequently that I just request a password reset every time I go there
<greg-g> hah
<rick_h> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/375566 *sigh* I feel better now
<greg-g> rick_h: wow, over 3 years old
<rick_h> greg-g: yea :/ and it's not like it's an "ignore me" issue
<greg-g> yeah, ugh
<rick_h> oh well, two news bugs and one affects me, a good day's work reporting crap that'll never get fixed.
<brousch> Geez, I think I hit that email bug back when jjesse and I tried U1 at WMLUG when it first came out
<jjesse> ?
<jjesse> wow
<brousch> I remember you never got the share email
<brousch> But a few days later it worked
<rick_h> I did get the email in this case, but it's retarded and doesn't mention activating the share at all
<rick_h> and there's no UI that says I've got pending shares to accept/etc in the clietn or the webui
<rick_h> so it really is a black hole of sharing fail
<brousch> rick_h: Try rebooting the U1 servers
<brousch> All of them
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> let me get those logins
<greg-g> just use your magic number generator button!
<rick_h> 872838
<rick_h> *access denied*
<rick_h> damn!
<greg-g> worth a shot
<brousch> OK, I actually snorted at that one
<rick_h> is it friday yet? I'm toast
<brousch> There's a little booger on my alt key now
<jrwren> i'm evaluating solutions, anyone know what ubuntu cloud server's competition is?
<brousch> Azure?
<jrwren> lol, no
<brousch> Oracle is building the bestest cloud evar
<brousch> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405454,00.asp
<jrwren> no
<brousch> You're so picky
<rick_h> jrwren: you have to define cloud to find the compitition
<jrwren> "ubuntu cloud server" isn't that a definition?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's like asking what's the best shoes out there?
<brousch> Crocks
<snap-l> brousch: I hope a crocs truck explodes on your front lawn
<brousch> I have a pair of crocs
<jrwren> is Crocks a cloud software thing?
<brousch> I will wear them for your enjoyment
<jrwren> i googled and got crocs.
<snap-l> That's it's own punishment
<snap-l> jrwren: It's just that brousch not only has incredibly bad taste in footwear, but also can 't spell it either
<brousch> Speling ees ovarated
<snap-l> oviosly
<jrwren> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.eggproxy  nom nom
<snap-l> This is how you do a password breach: http://www.last.fm/passwordsecurity
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: you'er about 2 hours behind. brousch already linked to that ;)
<brousch> Yeah, you need to upgrade your Internets
<snap-l> That means I have to stop ignoring brousch
<snap-l> too hard
<brousch> Ah ha!
<jrwren> bookie just let me add a dup. https://bmark.us/jrwren/recent
<jrwren> pylint is stupid.
<jrwren> i don't care about docstrings on my unittest classes and methods.
<snap-l> O'reilly now will sync with dropbox
<jrwren> pylint W0141 wtf
<rick_h> jrwren: well you do want that though because the test runner will use that for output to help on failing tests
<rick_h> jrwren: it's not unusual to have different classes with similiar commented test methods, etc
<rick_h> jrwren: thanks for the heads up, issue added: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/156
<jrwren> is there a way i can get python library docs as manpages?
<jrwren> i do for php and perl ahs perldoc.
<rick_h> I use a plugin called pydoc I think that loads python docs in vim splits
<rick_h> jrwren: you can also use your repl bpython/ipython
<rick_h> import os; help(os)
<rick_h> will output the docs for os module
<jrwren> ah, maybe that is waht I want.
<jrwren> just need to get better at using it.
<rick_h> yea, help and dir I use a ton in repl and pdb for things while debugging/dev
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-08
<brousch> I'm poking at a Flask app. I had forgotten how delightfully simple it is
<rick_h> yea, flask can be sweet for small simple stuff
<snap-l> new router is installed
<rick_h> woot, snap-l with super wireless now
<rick_h> kind of cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6NdhSPZk8M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
<snap-l> As you may have seen, both Last.fm and LinkedIn have had a number of
<snap-l> passwords compromised. As a precaution, ALL Libre.fm user passwords
<snap-l> have been reset to a random, secure password.
<snap-l> Apparently Libre.fm felt left out
<rick_h> hah
<MaskedDriver> morning
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> TGIF
<MaskedDriver> aye
<MaskedDriver> Heading up to Traverse City today at noon so it's a halfer for me :)
<brousch> What's in Traverse City?
<rick_h> I was just up there a couple of weekends ago
<rick_h> nice beach, great little downtown area
<rick_h> lots of bike paths it seemed, wish we'd brought the bike up
<MaskedDriver> it's where a lot of breweries and wineries are there
<brousch> Bah, just go to Holland or Grand Haven or South Haven or Saugatuck
<MaskedDriver> get rid of the last "there" in my sentence
<brousch> Or St Joseph
<brousch> My Mom loves Traverse City because they would go there as kids, but I don't really see what it has over most of the West MI towns and beaches
<rick_h> north always > west :P
<brousch> Alaska > Oregon?
<rick_h> I mean MI, but hey...it's possible
<brousch> Lake Superior !> Lake MI
<brousch> Freezing cold and black flies
<MaskedDriver> Why do people insist on clicking submit buttons multiple times?
<MaskedDriver> and then get mad at me when there are duplicates
<rick_h> woot! laptop is shipped in the status window
<rick_h> MaskedDriver: I always keep thinking it'd be two lines of JS to disable the submit button when clicked, but don't do that myself
<MaskedDriver> rick_h I'm tired of fixing stupid
<MaskedDriver> 90% of my day is spent stupid-proofing the system I built
<rick_h> yea, that's just part of life
<MaskedDriver> The same 4 people screw it up after e-mail after e-mail after e-mail after training after training after training
<MaskedDriver> so management gives up and makes me dirty up my code to fix it for those 4 people. 50 other people use it with no issues
<MaskedDriver> but it just makes me laugh that it's suddenly my fault (in the 4 peoples' eyes) when they do something we explicitely tell them NOT to do
<rick_h> usability matters :P
<MaskedDriver> 8% of people with issues seems pretty usable
<rick_h> 8% is a big number, unemployment sized :P
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> those 8% need unemployment
<MaskedDriver> cause they screw up everything
<MaskedDriver> not just in my system
<MaskedDriver> one of them lost $20,000 for the company
<MaskedDriver> he's still here
<brousch> MaskedDriver: Ignore rick_h. I feel your pain.
<MaskedDriver> It's common internet protocol.. You don't click Submit buttons multiple times
<MaskedDriver> these are the same people that get charged twice when they buy something from the internet then claim that someone stole their credit card information
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/685/ put that at the top of each page and win/done
<MaskedDriver> you assume everyone uses YUI
<rick_h> I assume developers can translate to their tool of choice
<MaskedDriver> basically the same with jquery, but I'm not going to do that
<snap-l> http://www.angermanage.co.uk/
<snap-l> This site is angry
<MaskedDriver> this is an internal system only. If they can't follow directions that we explicitely give to them time and time again, they have no business using it
<rick_h> right, but you've spent more time in here ranting on it than it takes to fix it
<MaskedDriver> cause I've been instructed not to
<MaskedDriver> we're trying to cull out the weak.. find the people who consistently do things wrong
<rick_h> now you're onto a cause I can jump onto..."stupid management"!
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> it is common, because of the double click metaphor on desktops, for users to double click on submit forms.
<brousch> If the stupid were weak, they'd already be dead. Beware their hidden superpowers
<MaskedDriver> my ranting is just that it's such an easy thing NOT to do. Click once, wait 2 seconds, continue on your path to success
<MaskedDriver> we've shown them over and over again
<MaskedDriver> I believe that if somebody works at a place that has computer-related job activities, they have to take a 2-week crash course on how to use a computer
<brousch> I had a guy who spent 2 hours a day every day on the computer for a decade. He was amazed when I showed him the shift key. He had been capitalizing with the caps lock key for all that time.
<MaskedDriver> brousch: exactly
<MaskedDriver> brousch: I was a hero when I tought somebody ctrl+c, ctrl+v
<snap-l> I've been amazed and horrified at the oral traditions some people pass down from user to user in order to use a system.
<MaskedDriver> lol do tell snap-l
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Many examples over the years of "why are you doing it that way, and where the hell did you pick this up?"
<MaskedDriver> I was hoping you had a good one
<MaskedDriver> http://rinkworks.com/stupid/
<MaskedDriver> one that isn't on here but should be lol
<jrwren> brousch: traverse city breweries are better than holland breweries.
<jrwren> as for GH or saugatuck, don't know about their breweries.  I know south haven has no brewery
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: where do you work?
<MaskedDriver> an industrial contracting place is Pontiac
<MaskedDriver> in*
<snap-l> jrwren: Have you been to a holland brewery?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> Shorts & Dark Horse > New Holland & Founders
<brousch> Founders is GR
<brousch> New Holland Dragon's Milk is the best beer ever
<rick_h> doh, been using my headphones backwards all this time until I just tried to set them up in ubuntu and used the sound test sound stuff
<snap-l> rick_h: You have the best luck with audio equipment. ;)
<snap-l> L / R does not mean stage L, Stage R. ;)
<rick_h> hah, well the L/R is a bit hard to see and it made more sense for the controls to be hidden and down vs up
<rick_h> I do think I need to read the manual more though don't I
<snap-l> http://www.udacity.com/overview/Course/cs212/CourseRev/apr2012
<rick_h> woot python
<rick_h> hah, just got called a rock star, well my squad did at least.
 * rick_h calls it a day, mission accomplished
<snap-l> Yeah, It hink I'm going to sign up for it, not because I necessarily need it, but it would be nice to baseline my skills
<rick_h> refreshers and all that always good
<rick_h> why I kept reading all those 'be a good programmer' books. Lots of repeats, but reinforces and a good nugget here/there.
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> And the absence of process is regress
<snap-l> bah, I meant progress
<snap-l> The absence of progress is regression
 * snap-l feels he should donate to archive.org in bitcoin, even though i don't have any
<snap-l> just to say I did
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> and it seems like the right thing to do
<rick_h> lol https://twitter.com/davglass/status/211107614245924864
<rick_h> python package I didn't expect to see downloaded of the day: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/argh/0.15.1
<brousch> snap-l: You were mentioning a lack of Python devs at SF http://paste.mitechie.com/show/686/
<nullspace> rick_h: how many laptops is that now? I still have my t61
<nullspace> as my primary laptop
<rick_h> well, I had a t400 or something, the x201, and now an x230
<rick_h> about every 2-3yrs it's upgrade time
<nullspace> yeah I don't have the budget for that
<rick_h> well if you're looking to upgrade I've got an x201 coming up available :) 2 docks, 2 batteries, and upgraded to 160gb intel SSD :)
<nullspace> pm what your asking price is
<rick_h> hmm, time to hunt down some grub.
<nullspace> indeed
<jrwren> every 2 yrs at a minimum :)
<rick_h> yea, I wouldn't do this one if it wasn't for the ivy bridge. So I kind of follow chipsets like that
<nullspace> aside from speed and a gpu what's ivy bring to the table for you?
<rick_h> better power, gpu, and cpu perf are the big things
<rick_h> the updated ips display and the usb3 and support for msata are other wins in the 230
<snap-l> Also, it's 29 more than the x201
<snap-l> so that's a HUGE win
<snap-l> brousch: Interesting.
<rick_h> snap-l: hah! rev that model number ftw!
<snap-l> http://cl.ly/HEE3/o <- scariest part about Prometheus
<nullspace> tiny knobs
<snap-l> Look more to the left
<snap-l> specifically down on the left screen, bottom
<rick_h> ah, the windows/IE
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> someone moved the mouse
<snap-l> and nobody noticed.
<nullspace> anyone have a link to a prefered ways to improve battery life on ubuntu?
<rick_h> yea sorry. Nothing off the top of my head. Run powertop, reduce screen brightness, etc
<rick_h> but no good single doc I can link to
<snap-l> Also run later kernels
<snap-l> They seem to have more emphasis on power savings
<nullspace> yeah looks like 3 > has pcie aspm
<nullspace> snap-l: no worries in alien (29 years after) they run a unix terminal interface
<krondor> jrwren: ++ (from reading the ancient scrollback), I love Short's but I'm also a fan of Founders.  Not so much New Holland.
<snap-l> http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/8/3072284/dice-plus-digital-die-ios-android?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
<snap-l> Talk about overengineering a non-existent problem
<snap-l> Although the no-cheating part is pretty cool
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUMjxnKzUlQ <- Welcome to the weekend's shit-storm
<snap-l> (~1:33)
<brousch> hehe
<greg-g> I find it annoying and ironic that a page describing an "Open" standard uses Silverlight video with h264 fallback
<greg-g> (MS is a big partner, apparently)
<greg-g> http://www.odata.org/introduction
<snap-l> I find it ironic that a Print On Demand book that I ordered from Lulu on May 25th still isn't here.
<snap-l> (shipped on June 1st)
<snap-l> I think they used media rate
<snap-l> which is the slower boat to china
<snap-l> note to the impatient: never use media rate
<brousch> media mail is your package tied with twine to a narcoleptic tortoise
<snap-l> whichi is why I ship Priority Mail
<snap-l> and why I have 4.9 stars on Amazon
<brousch> http://laughingsquid.com/richard-pryor-performing-with-his-heavy-metal-band-black-death/
<snap-l> (got a 1 star because I sold my Nokia 770 with updated firmaware that was crashy)
<jrwren> greg-g: odata is open because msft says its open.
<rick_h> oh geeze...that video is so bad
<brousch> rick_h: My Cr-48 just got the new ChromeOS interface
<brousch> And this is awesome http://gigaom.com/mobile/famous-judge-spikes-apple-google-case-calls-patent-system-dysfunctional/
<rick_h> brousch: wow, awesome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-09
<derekv> rss is in xml =[
<rick_h> yea, atom/etc are just xml files
<rick_h> fortunately there's stuff like http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedreader/ for parsing/dealing with it
<derekv> i want to create it
<derekv> what i want to do is simple i've just never looked at rss before
<rick_h> http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html
<derekv> your not going to stop until i'm using python are you? =]
<rick_h> hey, just saying :P
<derekv> i was thinking i'd make the client in python at least
<rick_h> you didn't specify
<derekv> easy and portable
<derekv> yea because i hadn't decided
<rick_h> batteries included
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/NimtS1TS0lcdPmJkExSg/ <- snort
<snap-l> Also, if you're hand-crafting XML files, you're either a masochist, or doing it wrong
<rick_h> snap-l: sweet, sounds like a great business deal
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll really put those ads on my site to good use
<snap-l> Get that Amazon Associates thing cooking
<rick_h> snap-l: so thinking the best way to do this talk is to slowly build up a Makefile from noting to useful, but this will require live coding.
<rick_h> I will be tempting the great angry live coding gods
<snap-l> I'll bring  wifi router
<rick_h> ooh, I hear associates is where the $$ is at man
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> and a stick to poke me as I typo each step of the way
<rick_h> but tried this a few ways and really think this will help 'click' with people best
<snap-l> I got the long antenna, so I think I could hit you from anywhere in the room
<rick_h> awesome
<snap-l> It looks like Gib's router that he used to bring, only cooler because it runs Tomato
<snap-l> rick_h: You might remember it. ;)
<rick_h> orly?
<rick_h> oh, an old wrt54gl?
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h> gotcha, cool
<snap-l> It was yours. :)
<rick_h> yea, recalling now
<snap-l> http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/unreal4a.jpg
<Blazeix> "I light my level by dropping a sun in."
<Blazeix> "[the level is lit] by light being refracted off the dull stone walls and the colored carpet. And if the carpet changes color, so does the reflected light, in real time."
<derekv> I feel like there used to be a feed icon in or near the address bar when you were on a page that provided a feed version
<derekv> in mozilla
<derekv> ok its in the bookmark menu
<derekv> got to decide whether to make this ssd my main drive, or just put things on it strategically
<rick_h> make it / and then use another for /home if you need
<derekv> I think that is legit... i could also make the slow drive the /, put /home on the ssd, map back media and download dirs
<rick_h> you want /usr/loca/bin /bin and such in ssd for speed in launching things
<rick_h> boot for boot speed etc
<derekv> ive rebooted this thing all of like twice since i got it
<rick_h> honestly, these days just get a big enough ssd
<derekv> 240... it is big enough actually
<rick_h> ah, well "it" isn't defined :)
<derekv> i just figured to keep the hdd internal as well since i don't use the optical much
<rick_h> yea, then just put the whole thing as / and mount the slow drive as /slow
<rick_h> put music/videos on there and be done with it
<derekv> sounds good
<derekv> windows vm etc on /slow
<rick_h> if you can fit it on the main it'll feel a lot faster
<derekv> and a backup of my home
<rick_h> but yea
<snap-l> http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/06/06/what-if-metal-album-covers-were-truthful/
<derekv> I think you can use wget to make a sort of static mirror of a page
<derekv> I don't know how well it would work now, everything is so dynamic now
<derekv> but, if so, you to grab a snapshot of every url that pops up on a feed
<snap-l> http://www.kchronicles.com/2012/06/05/kings-devils/
<derekv> s/you/wouldn't be hard
<rick_h> yea, there was a cool tool I was using at morpace for some stuff like that
<rick_h> of course now I can recall it...crap
<derekv> and then generate a unique url for it, and stick it as static content, and put the url to the archived copy next to the actual url
<rick_h> geeze, I watch 123 repos in github now...missed that getting so high
<rick_h> https://github.com/cpinto/python-webpage-inliner
<rick_h> that works pretty well and makes for great offline copies of sites in single files
<rick_h> doesn't get some things like images defined in the css, but pretty good copies
<derekv> Sure we all watch a lot of repos when we're high.
<rick_h> eventually I want to add support for that into bookie so that you get both the readable pretty content, but also a single file I can load up if you want a more full featured view of the page you bookmarked
<derekv> oh you do grab some of the content
<derekv> I totally missed that
<rick_h> yea, if you click the 'eye' icon on the left side it loads a readable parsed content view of the page
<rick_h> the search is a fulltext search that goes across tags, title, and content
<derekv> I found that once I went to look.
<rick_h> https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/42742d9ffa6e7a
<rick_h> it's why I've been working on a better readable parser and the seperate service: http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Flxc-devel%40lists.sourceforge.net%2Fmsg00151.html
<rick_h> to get bookie to use it as a service vs doing the work itself
<rick_h> scale better, etc
<derekv> i see
<derekv> do you want a version thats true to the original or more like instapaper/read-it-later
<derekv> now known as pocket
<rick_h> so the original vision was instapaper
<rick_h> but I can see the value to wanting the images/etc (more true original view)
<rick_h> thus the python-webpage-inliner tool
<rick_h> so that all the JS/CSS/images get inlined into a single content file that I can store as well
<rick_h> but you don't want that to be searchable because it's too messy
<rick_h> might include ads, etc
<derekv> a third option is actually rendering it to an image
<rick_h> yea, but then you lose copy/paste, no JS interactions, etc
<derekv> i guess like the google preview
<derekv> I agree you wouldn't want it as the only view
<rick_h> but that's what I was doing at morpace, using the webpage inliner tool to generate a single .html file
<rick_h> and then sending that through wktopdf to generate a pdf image of a site
<rick_h> https://github.com/antialize/wkhtmltopdf
<derekv> Yea I had made a one-liner to take my bookmarks file (back when it was just a .html file) and create a structure of offline mirrors of all the pages
<rick_h> so that would runa webkit browser at the generated single file .html and then give me a pdf I could serve to clients as a 'printable' view of a dynamic JS page
<derekv> heh, remember what I said about how I should have made everything a script and saved it?
<rick_h> :)
<derekv> why not render from the original?
<derekv> maybe i'm just presuming that the inliner would get something wrong.
<rick_h> because you were too slow/network bound
<rick_h> it was meant to go througha series of queues
<rick_h> one queue would fetch urls and inline them, cache them
<rick_h> then another would go through those and pdf them, and shoot off the pdfs to the requestor
<rick_h> you could 'request pdf' and get an email, we could cache/store the inline pages, etc
<derekv> I think there's always going to be some sort of issue.  javascript popover "take our survey" or something.
<rick_h> oh yea, the inliner wasn't perfect for sure
<rick_h> however since we were using it against our own sites, we had more control and it worked better
<rick_h> we were doing some heavy JS driven content stuff and when they hit 'pdf me' we had to generate monster urls of settings so that we got the right content back on the page
<derekv> Personally I think that being able to get and the primary content of a site through a text only browser should be a requirement.
<rick_h> heh, yea we do that at launchpad
<derekv> depending on what that content is of course
<rick_h> http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fblog.launchpad.net%2Fgeneral%2Flaunchpad-for-textual-graphical-and-interactive-browsers
<rick_h> was from just this week
<rick_h> but you can do some awesome stuff very fast with pure client side rendering/handling of things
<rick_h> and it even works in IE8 :)
<derekv> nice
<nullspace> ok I'm conking out
<rick_h> night
<nullspace> laters
<derekv> So I have an idea, and like most ideas lots of others have had the same idea or a very close.
<derekv> This is not too far off from bookie as it happens.
<rick_h> oh do tell :)
<rick_h> if it's interesting to you I always say do it, worst case you learn alot
<rick_h> bookie moves pretty slowly and I've given up on ever making it a big product, but I'm learned a ton and it's great to point employers to
<derekv> Yea I think this should be pretty strait forward to do, and maybe it'd even work to start with bookie as a base...  but its simple enough I'm not sure
<derekv> well simple until you need it to scale of course, but if that ever happens that'll be a good problem
<rick_h> cool, well if you want we can chat at CHC or something. I'm always up for talking code and if it's related can help with things
<derekv> you authenticate to the service, and you can post a url to a feed/channel
<derekv> that you have post access to
<rick_h> reddit?
<derekv> anyone can create new feeds (that have that permission on the service)
<derekv> I've never used
<derekv> But probably like a simpler version with a different focus
<rick_h> first thing that comes to mind from that initial pitch
<derekv> Not so much a chat.
<derekv> Yea that came to me
<derekv> Then the feeds are of course available as rss / atom
<rick_h> collections around tags then? where tags = feed/channel aroud a topic
<derekv> also, you can create private feeds which only you can reed, its all ssl so it can be secure (as secure as the server)
<derekv> right, but where a primary tag is required
<rick_h> yea, I've been meaning to add rss to bookie views but not gotten there yet
<derekv> also I guess by that analogy you'd have where one group of people control access to a tag
<derekv> So a group or a channel is a better term.
<rick_h> I'd not get too hung up on that part. People will naturally build community around their interest/tag/feed
<rick_h> and ignore the ones they're not inerested in
<rick_h> and it makes life much easier to start when you're not bogged down in security implications/et
<rick_h> why bookie only does public urls right now
<rick_h> concentrate on getting the other bits right vs the lock down issues
<derekv> So that is the technical description of the service... and right its something that I think is simple enough that people might / will find other uses for
<rick_h> build the social part, and only limit/lock when it becomes a requirement
<derekv> just a tool
<derekv> sure, I could make it all public first as a proof of concept, and then evolve it into a all public only version and a secure by default version
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> so bookie has some good stuff to help with that. First, we've got the infrastructure for saving urls, users, api, etc
<rick_h> we also have the concept of command tags
<derekv> which is?
<rick_h> !toread marks the bookmark as toread for you
<derekv> ah
<rick_h> the idea was that private bookmarks will be implemented as a command tag !private
<rick_h> so that the interface stays clean, but you can expand on special actions that occur when a command tag is hit
<derekv> thats not a bad idea
<rick_h> to #somegroup could be an indication that this bookmark is for a certain feed/group
<rick_h> /to/so
<derekv> right, bookie is more like twitter
<rick_h> gives it more meaning thatn just taggins somegroup
<derekv> you don't have the follow timeline thing, not that I'm sure you need it
<rick_h> well, it's potential to grow into some of that. The groundwork is there, but it's not fleshed out yet
<derekv> Don't go throwing in follow or timeline just because another popular service has it
<derekv> your right to look for ways to keep it simple
<rick_h> but yea, then you could basically biuld api calls that filter/generate rss feeds based on the #something tags only
<derekv> exactly
<rick_h> and allow users to 'subscribe' to those and get them dropped into their bookmark lists
<rick_h> search/etc
<derekv> and I think behind the scenes thats what how the channels would work
<derekv> Man I'm having trouble with words tonight.
<rick_h> anyway, just saying that yea, there's some potential for bookie cross over there if you're interested. Some low level stuff supports some of the ideas
<derekv> Cool
<rick_h> but however you decide to try it out, I always say try to build it and see if it 'works' and worst case you learn a lot about the problem, development, etc
<rick_h> the initial proof of concept of bookie was written during pycon in one week 1.5yr ago
<derekv> Here was the original idea.  I sometimes come accross a link to a file, and I want that file, but its useless to me on my phone.  So I had this idea of a "download it later" app on the phone, and i'd implement it as a private rss feed of links
<derekv> then of course ala podcasting, you could have a service running on your computer all the time if you wanted, so its more of a "download-to" and/or "download later"
<rick_h> ah, that's cool. One of the ideas on the bookie todo was to better support bookmarking files and providing interesting tools around it
<rick_h> like a gallery of your bookmarked images, etc
<rick_h> so you could filter in filetype, maybe do interesting things around that
<derekv> so, exactly, then I thought of other stuff you could do, like say a feed of images, and maybe you'd want to share that or maybe now (now its more like reddit, but still simpler)
<rick_h> yea, cool stuff
<derekv> yea.... so basically all this could be implemented by extending bookie.
<rick_h> sounds like it, at least initially
<derekv> but would that make bookie better?
<rick_h> yea, well some of it is on the todo list already
<rick_h> so, for instance, I think the first step would be implementing rss feeds of tags/searches
<derekv> sure
<derekv> I can see that
<rick_h> so you could start out the simplest case, tag someting 'community' and get that rss feed
<rick_h> then work up to where users could 'subscribe' to that community tag, and see it in their own bookmark list
<rick_h> no matter who stored it
<rick_h> and then work up from there by maybe adding the concept of ownership of that tag
<rick_h> at that point you want it to be a magic tag, vs just generic, so @community becomes a bookie command tag
<rick_h> and that can be owned, but a list of users
<rick_h> and move on from there
<rick_h> at that point, you've got links, grouped, and subscribe/protected
<rick_h> from there you can build out apis then to provide special ui views of those @commnity tags
<rick_h> if I'm following you at all here, it is getting late :)
<derekv> I think that would basically work
<derekv> Its coming at it from a different starting point
<rick_h> right, and it could probably go differently. Just trying to break it into a series of 'smallest stepping stones to work'
<rick_h> I find that's the only really good way to do these things, else they get too big and hard to move forward
<rick_h> smaller goals that show more progress and don't require buying in all the way ftw
<rick_h> more room to pivot mid-stream (hah, get some agile wordage in there for you)
<derekv> ug... I'm just leaving an agile gone wrong situation
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> well this is OSS, so we basically mess up all that stuff to suit our needs in a more practical way
<derekv> don't be agile, increase your agility!
<rick_h> sorry, how about 'lean' :P
<derekv> my hobby is replacing agile terms with religious terms.
<rick_h> sweet
<derekv> don't be christian, be more christ-like!
<rick_h> we need more chanting in our meetings
<derekv> haha
<derekv> gregorian chant is pretty rad
<derekv> but if you haven't learned to do that you can just all hmmmmm as a group
<derekv> what is del api?
<derekv> man sunday I should make an android client
<derekv> its time I got some projects out there
<derekv> oh look, docs =]
<rick_h> del api? oh delicious api
<rick_h> not sure that still works tbh
<rick_h> originally wanted to be compatible, but it was limiting/holding me back from the things i wanted to make unique
<derekv> I _just_ read the same thing in the doc
<derekv> heh
<rick_h> heh, yea spent a bunch of time on the docs, especially the api
<rick_h> http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/api.html
<rick_h> anyway, way past my bed time, the boy will be up in 6 hours if I'm lucky.
<rick_h> night
<derekv> thanks, see ya
<snap-l> Good morning
<derekv> its like gentoo is trying so hard to help to avoid dependancy hell. .. and failing
<derekv> all the time
<derekv> I wonder what I could buy download.to for
<greg-g> uh oh, snap-l is talking with mlinksva re patents :)
<greg-g> he meant s/protects/restricts/
<greg-g> there is no actual protection going on. protection is a doublespeak word
<greg-g> I mean, saying "patent pending" isn't actually a physical shield (or in his words, a physical shelter)
<snap-l> greg-g: Again, it's a matter of perspective
<snap-l> if you're the one filing the patent, it's protection
<snap-l> if you're very much against patents, it's restriction
<snap-l> I get rather irritated when someone tries to choose my vocabulary for me. :)
<snap-l> And my point that the patent office has outlived it's initial function as a clearinghouse for keeping ideas from being kept as trade secrets is more relevant
<snap-l> I can see them being useful for physical manefestations, but I'm also talking myself out of that perspective the more I think about it
<greg-g> words are important, they perpetuate themselves through ideas. If you want people to think that patents/copyright protect them, use protect. If you want people to understand that patents/copyright are restrictions on the public good, use restrict. :)
<greg-g> I should have said: ideas are important, they perpetuate themselves through words, but both ways of saying it is probably right :)
<snap-l> "No Trespassing" is enforced because I protect my land with a 12 gauge
<snap-l> The restriction (no trespassing) is because of protection. ;)
<greg-g> so patents are a 12 gauge shotgun? I'm more for gun laws than I thought! ;)
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> meh, I'd argue that's not hte enforcement of no tresspassing. It's more a reminder of a social norm 90% of the time and if me walking beyond the sign doesn't enable enforcement by 12 guage
<snap-l> rick_h: Thank you for doing the presentation in June. Looks like the Cloud Presenter isn't going to be able to make it after all
<snap-l> Also: has anyone had trouble sending me mail?
<rick_h> snap-l: yea np, started working on it. So should I be shooting at 45min then?
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, if that wouldn't be any trouble
<rick_h> snap-l: yea not a problem at all, just want to make sure I don't run too much/short if I can help it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-10
<greg-g> seriously how can I be foiled by libreoffice for just making a simple chart?
<rick_h> greg-g: doh
<snap-l> Interesting: http://alwaysupward.com/blog/fb-fans-arent-seeing-your-posts-and-how-to-fix-it/
<brousch> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/10/130251/rms-robbed-of-passport-and-other-belongings-in-argentina
<rick_h> yea, that sucks
<rick_h> ugh https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=128748
<rick_h> snap-l: ugh, just a heads up...this talk is going to be nuts
<brousch> What talk?
<rick_h> Makefile
<rick_h> trying to whip up a talk on Make for Mug on tues
<rick_h> I keep picking htings that are hard to really talk about. The best way to see/understand make is to slowly build a Makefile
<rick_h> but that means that I, as a presenter, have to be able to do it on the fly
<rick_h> and you keep refactoring/etc
<rick_h> so I can't just have a final version in my hand we build up to, have lots of notes, middle iterations as we learn trick after trick
<rick_h> so it's going to be a damn tough thing to pull off with a few days work
<rick_h> with lots of typos/etc I'm sure
<brousch> build one up that you already have
<rick_h> yea, but they're all too big
<rick_h> I was thinking of bookie's file or one from work
<rick_h> but they're huge with tons of crap
<rick_h> so tring to do a fresh one that's smaller and easier to get our head around
<brousch> should be easy since they're all in git
<rick_h> doesn't mean they're done in a way that makes sense for a new person, lots of "crap shouldn't have done it that way" in there
<rick_h> meh, just getting ancy realizing how much more this is than I thought, but what talk isn't
<brousch> antsy
<rick_h> yea, that thing :)
<snap-l> hello from coney
<rick_h> from coney? getting some brunch?
<snap-l> rick_h: don't sweat it too mich. this is pretty last minute
<snap-l> yeah, before grocwries
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, thanks. Just as it grows the more I realize the on the fly is going to fail, good idea but needs practice which I just don't have time to do a ton of
<rick_h> but will bungle through it
<snap-l> you'll do fine
<snap-l> would you stop your talks are always good -J says
<rick_h> :P
<snap-l> http://nxfxtxex.bandcamp.com/ <- I take the bullets so you don't have to
<snap-l> http://barrenwaste.bandcamp.com/ <- Also, I kinda like this, only from a "skinny puppy brap-like" POV
<snap-l> http://angelapescathore.bandcamp.com/ <- FML
<snap-l> http://thedarkclan.bandcamp.com/album/the-dark-clan-hogs-the-covers <- best cover ever
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-03
<waldo323> wolfger, now i'm thirsty
<snap-l> Hello,
<snap-l> Give me a sec and we'll start the meeting
<snap-l> WElcome everyone
<waldo323> welcome to you too
<brousch_> Thank you
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/516/detail/
<snap-l> ^- That's the current agenda
<snap-l> there really isn't much to cover at the moment
<snap-l> Justwanted everyone to take a look athte Community Site..
<snap-l> It looks nice, and I'm wondering if there's something we can add to this
<snap-l> http://community.ubuntu.com/
<snap-l> So, that's all I wanted to say about this at the moment
<snap-l> Anyone have anything they'd like to add?
<snap-l> OK, moving on
<snap-l> Anyone in the Detroit area running 13.04 that would like to speak at MUG at some point? :)
<jrwren> wolfger: wow, 20gal going. you are HARDCORE!
<snap-l> If you are, and you'd like to speak at MUG, please contact us at board@mug.org
<snap-l> That's all I have at the moment. Anyone else have anything?
<brousch_> No
<waldo323> bug 1 was closed right?
<snap-l> Okely dokely. Next meeting is in July. :)
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/517/detail/
<snap-l> waldo323:  That was so last week. :)
<waldo323> :)
<snap-l> thanks everyone for attending!
<waldo323> thanks for hosting
<wolfger> wow, that was over quick
<wolfger> I nearly made it here on-time-ish, and it's over
<wolfger> jrwren: I am going hard-core with the beer these days. I've got a nice wood bar with 2 brass taps.... built on a frame that's attached to a hand truck, so I can wheel it around the campground with me. :-)
<jrwren> wolfger: NICE!!
<wolfger> if you have FB, http://goo.gl/0h1dP
<wolfger> I need to get some pics up on a friendlier site, since I have so many anti-FB friends
<wolfger> oh well, off to bed. G'night.
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> I've been invited to be a talk reviewer for PyOhio
<brousch> I feel 1337
<snap-l> Awesome!
<brousch> It looks like my proposal is automatically hidden from me
<brousch> I cannot argue for myself!
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> I didn't get anything in this year
<snap-l> (Haven't registered yet either, though I do have our rooms reserved)
<rick_h_> is registration open?
 * rick_h_ should look at all that
<snap-l> Yeah, it is
<snap-l> but I want to get some T-shirts, and it looks like you have to pay for those up-front
<rick_h_> yea, had to do that last year as well
<snap-l> so waiting for my paypal to replenish. :)
<rick_h_> heh, need to charge up your super move a little more before you can break it out
<brousch> There is some grumbling in the GRPUG about Red Roof Inn, so we might join you gents at the Blackwell this year
<snap-l> please do
<snap-l> it's a nice hotel
<brousch> I know
<snap-l> not frugal-friendly, but quite nice.
<brousch> We can save like $40 at Red Roof
<rick_h_> you save $$ onthe free conference :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well, I hate transfering money from checking to paypal on a case-bycase basis because it screws up my accounting
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<snap-l> I think the PyOhio rate is something like $100 a night
<snap-l> or maybe that was Penguicon
<brousch> Sounds about right
<snap-l> Wouldn't hurt to call
<snap-l> if for no other reason then you could book your room now instead of waiting for some wedding / cheerleading camp to take over.
<rick_h_> snap-l: I don't show paypal as a payment option. Just a CC
<snap-l> I use my Paypal CC
<rick_h_> oh, cool haven't seen/used that before
 * rick_h_ grumbles and fetches wallet upstairs
<snap-l> Yeah, got one a while back and have used it as my online buffer. :)
<brousch> You don't have your credit card numbers memorized?
<snap-l> Almost all of my online activity is filtered through either that card or Paypal
<rick_h_> brousch: no, I use amazon enough that I don't remember them :P
<rick_h_> snap-l: I just say that almost all of my activity is online :)
<brousch> It probably helps that I've had the same number since 1994
<snap-l> brousch: I have one of my previous online-opnly cards memorized
<rick_h_> ok, registered
<rick_h_> hmm, I don't see any hotel info on there. Do they have a group rate there at all?
<snap-l> I think you need to call the Blackwell and ask for the PyOhio rate.
<snap-l> at least that is what I did
<rick_h_> yea, but they should have some hotel info on the site.
<snap-l> can't do it online.
<rick_h_> kind of a failing for new people/etc
<snap-l> I dunno, the site that seems to take over 10 seconds to load might also be a failing. :)
<rick_h_> hmm, no perf issues here
<brousch> what site?
<snap-l> pyohio.org
<snap-l> seemed to take a bit to load
<snap-l> I'll send them a note later today re: getting hotel info on the main site
<brousch> Works well for me
<Blazeix> ok, <3 canonical. 802.11n was always flakey on the retina MBP, but canonical worked with OEMs to get solid drivers for the chipset.
<rick_h_> woot
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> ++
<brousch> Someone submitted their talk proposal as a poem
<brousch> Geeker Pyramid users
<brousch> Crap. I voted for 2 pyramid talks now
<rick_h_> woot
<brousch> There are a lot of proposals this year. Geez
<brousch> Too many good talks
<brousch> Now i don't want to waste half a day giving a tutorial
<rick_h_> cool, I know they were having trouble getting some talks in so glad to hear it's working out
<brousch> wtf, another pyramid talk
<rick_h_> bwuhahahaha
<brousch> Your infection is spreading
<brousch> I was going to vote this one OK until I hit "Pyramid is based on Zope, Pylons, and Django."
<brousch> Kind of a strange assertion
<rick_h_> ummm...yea not
<jrwren> nothing is based on zope
<jrwren> just because it uses that one zsi object or whatever it is, does not base it on zope :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: :/ zope3 then?
<jrwren> no way
<rick_h_> /based/uses
<jrwren> still no way, since its a separate pypi pkg
<rick_h_> the concepts are pulled from bfg, zope, pylons
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but pyramid installs zope.interface :P
<jrwren> concepts
<jrwren> right, zope.interface, that is waht I was trying to think of
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/requirements.txt#L60
<jrwren> whoa, that is a lot of zope :)
<rick_h_> so I don't think it's fair to say "nothing is based on zope"
<jrwren> ok. its not fair
<brousch> Any of you want to be a proposal reviewer? Looks like 4 hours of work
<snap-l> I <3 landing code minutes before its supposed to run.
<rick_h_> with lots of tests right? :P
<snap-l> manual: yes. Automated: no. ;)
<brousch> Getting quite a few proposals from New York City.
<jrwren> http://www.curiousvenn.com/?p=353  some good python oneliners
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, fun stuff. I need to create some shell aliases for some of those I think
<jrwren> i use simplehttpserver a lot, mostly so html with CDN //host urls work
<jrwren> instead of file:///  urls
<rick_h_> I like to use it to serve out a .html file with JS tests/etc
<rick_h_> hmm, wish it was internet law to have a changelog to web pages. I want to see when this page came to be.
<snap-l> You could try archive.org, but that's a crapshoot
<greg-g> and for anything newer than like 6 months is just won't have it
<greg-g> but YAY, great use of thousands of harddrives!
<rick_h_> yea, not pulled
<snap-l> greg-g: They're hosting OMC, so I can't complain. :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I love that they did that (encourage podcasters to use them as their hosting provider)
<snap-l> Yeah, it's really nice
<snap-l> I wish I had some more statistics available to me outside of download counts
<snap-l> but that said, I don't have to worry about exceeding my bandwidth ever again
<snap-l> Open Metalcast Special Episode: Club Metal #11
<snap-l> 2,397 downloads
<snap-l> I still find it funny that that's my most downloaded episode on archive.org ever
<greg-g> I like your club metal series
<snap-l> Thank you. I'm overdue for another one.
<brousch> You need a whole episode of weird stuff like duckgrind and ass burners
<snap-l> brousch: I don't think I could make an entire episode of weird stuff. :)
<snap-l> I physically could not release such a thing upon the world. :)
<jrwren> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black  i want one or two
<jcastro> hey jrwren
<jcastro> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/06/podcast-48-sponsored-by-powdermilk-biscuits/
<jcastro> jrwren: enjoy!
<jrwren> tyanks
<greg-g> jcastro: you lived in FL, why didn't you do this? http://www.70000tons.com/
<jcastro> hahahaha
<jcastro> awesome
<gamerchick02> hey everyone. does anyone recommend an IRC client for android? like something i can use on my phone?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-04
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: I use androidirc
<gamerchick02> awesome, rick_h_
<gamerchick02> i've missed everyone too.
<rick_h_> kind of crazy https://twitter.com/ohkiv/status/341709940320247808/photo/1
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's pretty messed up.
<snap-l> How's the day treating everyone so far?
<jrwren> not terrible.
<jrwren> back on the bike for commute after almost 2 weeks, so that is great.
<snap-l> That's progress.
<snap-l> I wish I could commute via bike to work
<brousch> I could, but I prefer not being run over by semis going 50MPH
<snap-l> It would take me an hour to get to work
<jrwren> how many miles is your commute?
<snap-l> 20-30 to, 45 back
<jrwren> yuk.
<snap-l> oh, miles, not minutes. :)
<jrwren> not only would it take you at least an hour, but you'd be a sweaty mess.
<jrwren> We have showers at work so I can clean up after a sweaty commute. YAY
<snap-l> with the freeway it's ~ 15 miles
<snap-l> Yeah, no such showers
<snap-l> Ugh, just relalized one of our biking destinations is gone
<snap-l> used to ride up Campbell road to head to Caribou
<snap-l> no more. :(
<snap-l> Though I hope to get us to ride more to Royal Oak Downtown
<snap-l> not sure where to lock our bikes up, though
<snap-l> Seems most folks tie them up in front of the police station, or at the library. :)
<snap-l> also, PHP == Pretty Horiffic Perl. ;)
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/1fnlfh/til_there_is_an_else_clause_in_for_loops/
<rick_h_> <3 that feature
<rick_h_> use it once in a while
<snap-l> First I've seen it. Pretty awesome.
<brousch> That is confusing
<brousch> Not obvious
<brousch> The django template for ... else is much more obvious
<brousch> http://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/1fnlfh/til_there_is_an_else_clause_in_for_loops/cac1xb1
<snap-l> I dunno, I think the for (break) else makes sense
<rick_h_> gah, wtf is with the djawngo template crap today?
<snap-l> The Django one doesn't make any sense.
<rick_h_> 3rd person telling me how stupid templates are good until I talk to them and then they go "oh, that makes sense"
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's all because we've been put on this earth to drive you insane
<jrwren> stupid templates are good?
<snap-l> how are we doing so far?
<rick_h_> I'm almost there
<snap-l> We shall redouble our efforts
<jrwren> for, else is pretty shitty python IMO.  It changes the meaning of "else"
 * snap-l makes some offhanded comment about how PHP should be used as a system scripting language
<snap-l> jrwren: agreed, it should be something like "continue:"
<snap-l> or something of that ilk
<snap-l> It's not obvious what it does without an explanation
<brousch> That's what I said!
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, but then you went all weird with justifying Django's interpretation
<snap-l> which also doesn't make sense
<brousch> I think it's an implementation that makes more sense
<snap-l> You're just used to it. :)
<brousch> Treats a for like an if
<snap-l> No, it treats it like some corner case.
<brousch> And it's extremely useful
<snap-l> If this for loop doesn't ever run then do this
<brousch> You use it on pretty much every for loop coming from a database
<snap-l> brousch: So Django is perfect for grabbing no data from a database
<snap-l> I think we finally found a use case for Django after all. ;)
<brousch> :P
<brousch> Runs really fast that way!
<snap-l> w/me just envisioned a Reddit thread where people compare how fast their framework is at retreiving nothing
<snap-l> or would that be hacker news
<brousch> The next popular comparison. Even better than todo apps
<jrwren> django is great... if you are running a newspaper
<jrwren> i saw all those pypi announcments to update packages and completely forgot that I own something there. oops!
<rick_h_> yea, had a half dozen emails there waiting today
<snap-l>  [Global Notice] As
<snap-l> you've probably noticed we're experiencing a bit of network disruption. Please
<snap-l> bear with us while we check the tubes for kittens
<snap-l> heh
<Blazeix> anyone know of a good resource for beginning arduino programming? my little brother wants to start
<brousch> There's a book
<Blazeix> the oreilly one?
<snap-l> Blazeix: How far along is your brother with Arduino stuff?
<snap-l> And what age?
<brousch> Looks like there's a lot of books now
<Blazeix> snap-l: just beginning. he's an engineering major with some matlab experience, and a bit of java.
<Blazeix> he's 19
<techdood> Hey room
<brousch> Remember the guy who wanted to use pymssql with kivy on android? He is getting a lesson in why you use an API
<brousch> He can't get the module to install, and no one can help him because no one has MS SQL server
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-05
<snap-l> Blazeix: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021414.do
<snap-l> That's a pretty good introduction
<snap-l> This one looks interesting as well: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593274481.do
<Blazeix> snap-l: cool, thanks
<Blazeix> i like the look of that first one
<snap-l> yeah, it's pretty gentle
<jrwren_> py dbi is an api, isn't it?
<rick_h__> jrwren_: kind of interesting newly accepted pep for 3.4 I think http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0443/
<rick_h__> http://lukasz.langa.pl/8/single-dispatch-generic-functions/ is a nice write up on it
<snap-l> yeah, i did.'t quite understand what they were at first
<rick_h__> I like how the blog post wraps them as almost switch statements though it's not really what they are
<snap-l> still don't, but lookong forward to the write up
<snap-l> Blazeix: You're in luck: http://ur1.ca/e6z4u
<snap-l> 50% off arduino ebooks
<brousch> I was just about to post that
<snap-l> http://pyohio.org/registration/hotel/
<snap-l> You find the damndest things on Amazon doing a search for Leather Wrist Rest: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2UAL2U0QEWCLR/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2UAL2U0QEWCLR
<snap-l> BTW: CHC tonight
<brousch> I can't make it
<snap-l> We are now sad
<rick_h__> we are? :P
<snap-l> rick_h__: sshhhhhh, he'll get a complex otherwise
<brousch> Thank you
<greg-g> "Another popular option is to use githubâs pull request feature for this. Personally, I find it too complex for simple patches and would prefer gerrit over it." - http://liorkaplan.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/getting-patches-into-php/
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, I don't really like github as a code review tool. I've always wanted to setup reviewboard for my stuff personally.
<greg-g> rick_h__: I originally sent to that a mediawiki channel as people in that community have been talking about github vs gerrit for our stuff
<greg-g> the perennial conversation, ya know
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, but they're a bit different imo
<greg-g> definitely, I agree
<rick_h__> greg-g: but understand. I will say, in the case of docs/etc I think the github live edit stuff is darn handy for non-programmers.
<rick_h__> but for large diffs/code reviews/etc you want more of a code review tool. I get all pull requests locally and test/etc.
<rick_h__> using github for that sucks
<greg-g> totally
<rick_h__> #WorldofTradeoffs
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ElDorado-brother-YASSHI-MINI-BIG-HEAD-FIGURE-JAPAN-ONLY-/360671056694?pt=US_Action_Figures
<snap-l> I think he'll go nicely next to my little buddha statue
<rick_h__> This is really cool. My wife could completely use this. http://mashable.com/2013/06/05/autobike/
<rick_h__> she's never been comfy with changing gears, knowing when, etc
<greg-g> there's been auto shifting bikes for a long time, without computers even (depending on the speed of a flywheel)
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, this is cool that it's tracking cadence
<greg-g> there's a direct ratio between flywheel speed and cadence ;)
<rick_h__> Blazeix: http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/05/amazon-resurrects-the-kindle-dx-that-most-awkward-cousin-of-a-device-family-on-the-way-out/ woot
<Blazeix> hell yes
<rick_h__> a paperwhite DX ftw! please!
<snap-l> If they could only figure out how to make it affordable as well
<snap-l> ~$400 is not going to cut it anymore. :)
<snap-l> jcastro: LMK if you want to talk Thrash bands. That's one of my favorite categories of metal outside of melodic death metal.
<jcastro> are you on spotift?
<snap-l> I am not, unfortunately.
<jcastro> err, spotify? I could just have you add songs
<jcastro> oh
<snap-l> I can get the client for the Squeezebox, but it requires a premium account
<snap-l> and I never looked into it beyond that
<jcastro> yeah I got it for something for mobile and the roku
<brousch> Ooooooh, Dreamhost is moving to ubuntu 12.04 https://dreamhost.com/dreamscape/2013/06/03/change-is-in-the-air-dreamhost-upgrades/
<brousch> 12.04 all the things!
<jcastro> \o/
<brousch> 12.04 is the greatest release evar
<greg-g> better than 13.04, at least ;)
<snap-l> I'm still riding on 12.04 desktop
<brousch> Me too
<brousch> And all my servers are 12.04
<snap-l> I have to upgrade my linode instance to 12.04
<brousch> I got rid of my 10.04 servers a few months ago
<snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/a-new-att-fee-and-a-new-ting-service/
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou0fSuKY2pY <- for you shaving folks. :)
<wolfger> Question for the room: Has any clear successor to Google Reader surfaced yet? I've only got a month left to kidnap a Google exec's loved one and force them to keep Reader open (note to FBI: not really! j/k)
<wolfger> snap-l: was that greg-g in that video? :-D
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-06
<rick_h__> I broke scrolling so I suck award of the day goes to http://breather.com/
<snap-l> wolfger: I know JoDee is not thrilled with Feedly.
<rick_h__> Blazeix: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Swapping_characters,_words_and_lines at the end might help a little as well but more magic there
<rick_h__> http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/24/microsoft-debuts-new-sculpt-mice-with-windows-8-start-buttons
<rick_h__> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/yo-dawg-we-heard-you-like-start-buttons-so-we-put-one-in-your-mouse/
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h__> ugh
<snap-l> That rockin'?
<snap-l> Or is that rickin'? :)
<rick_h__> pretty much
<rick_h__> rollin
<snap-l> rickin', rockin' and rollin'
<snap-l> ballin'
<brousch> rick rollin?
<rick_h__> pretty much, I've been rick rollin through my morning so far
<snap-l> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/tumblr_lhh5hrKgH81qccxpi.gif
<brousch> We had a really cool talk last night about Pd
<brousch> It's a sound synthesis programming language
<brousch> Python bindings and runs on Android
<snap-l> Interesting
<snap-l>  http://obiwannabe.co.uk/html/sound-design/sound-design-all.html >
<snap-l> ?
<brousch> yeah
<snap-l> Will check it out.
<brousch> I wish i had recorded that talk
<snap-l> Me too. :)
<brousch> He doesn't use Python, so if I can get the Python part down, I might ask him to give the Pd talk again at a GRPUG meeting and then I'll cover the Python part
<brousch> His digirattle app is simple and open source, and the AnthroSynth app shows a lot of what Pd can do (requires a fairly new Android tablet) https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=anthropomo
<snap-l> brousch: Downloaded the Pitch Finder app. That might come in handy for me, being a drummer and all. ;)
<snap-l> AnthroSynth isn't available for my phone, though
<brousch1> snap-l: I needed to install python-pyaudio system wide and use a virtualenv with --system-site-packages to get libpd Python running on 12.04
<snap-l> Sounds like the same shenanigans to get pygame working
<snap-l> or numpy. ;)
<rick_h__> or you'll need all the -dev packages to compile it in the venv
<snap-l> If you can get fortran code to reliably compile in a venv, you're a better man than I. ;)
<snap-l> John tried adding numpy and pandas to our list of default packages, and almost without fail I've commented it out. :)
<snap-l> program note: That's also one of the reasons I went ballistic on Packt with their Instant PyGame booklet. It used numpy for generating 3 random number tuples for color picking.
<snap-l> Which seemed excessive for a book that didn't even tell you how to install Pygame
<snap-l> but I digress. :)
<brousch1> Pygame fails in venv
<brousch1> They need to get their act together!
<snap-l> yeah, mostly because of libsdl dependencies
<snap-l> related to CHC vim vs gvim discussion: one strike against gvim: can't use the status-bar of a window as an easy way to cut and paste the name of the file without triggering the window resize event.
<snap-l> (yes, I'm lazy. ;) )
<rick_h__> what are you copying/pasting the file name for?
<snap-l> mysql -u root dbname < $some_sql
<snap-l> again, lazy. :)
<brousch1> The conclusion of MSSQL with Kivy on Android: "Thank you all for your help on this. I was finally able to convince my boss to get me a MySQL server and now the last link of the project has been realized. Thank you Thomas for your recipe."
 * brousch1 facepalms
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren_> new turbogears, wtf?
<jrwren_> 'Removal of all dependencies on Pylons'
<jrwren_> who is running TG now?
<snap-l> Not mramm, last I checked
<jrwren_> right
<snap-l> don't recall the name at the moment
<brousch1> Aren't there 2 turogears?
<rick_h__> some people have carried it on
<brousch1> Turbogears 1.x is still alove
<brousch1> alive
<rick_h__> there was a party that wanted to move on top of pyramid but others that just want what they have to work
<jrwren_> makes good sense if you have production code out there running on it.
<snap-l> Yeah, last I remembered 1.x was living on, 2.x was subject to being ported but I haven't kept up on progress
<snap-l> But something tells me it would have likely resulted in 2.x living on in state, and tg++ becoming the pyramid ported version
<jrwren_> i was just surprised to see a new release.
<snap-l> but honestly Pyramid kinda sucked the wind from everyone's sails in the "build on top of pylons / pyramid" approach
<rick_h__> I don't think there will be a pyramid ported TG any more
<jcastro> ugh
<jcastro> snap-l: new megadeth album is really kind of meh
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, but you didn't like Th1rt33333333n either
<jcastro> 13 grew on me a bit, and even then it's only like 2 songs
<snap-l> aka M3g41337
<snap-l> Funny enough someone dumped their Megadeth collection over at UHF a while ago
<snap-l> I picked up United Abominations just to keep myself legal. :)
<snap-l> I think I'll pick up The System Has Failed at some point, and call it a MegaDay.
<snap-l> And that's only because I think Vinnie Colaiuta is the Bee's Knees.
<snap-l> Starting to remind me of the Cryptic Writings / Risk / World Needs a Hero era where Megadeth felt stale
 * snap-l would even put Youthanasia in there as well
<jrwren_> python gets a C# 1.0 feature :p  http://lukasz.langa.pl/8/single-dispatch-generic-functions/
<rick_h__> trollolol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-07
<snap-l> Finished off an interview with the band Cryogen
<snap-l> Hoping to get that up on the site tonight. :)
<rick_h__> party
<snap-l> yeah, should be a good one
<snap-l> they've got a really tight sound
<snap-l> and they have a kickstarter going on
<snap-l> so hoping to get more folks involved with that.
<snap-l> Good mornig
<jrwren_> good morning
<greg-g> morn
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2013/06/06/open-metalcast-special-interview-episode-cryogen/
<snap-l> I <3 it when people say they'll stick to IRC because of the NSA
<snap-l> as if logging bots aren't a thing. :)
<snap-l> or even relay servers. ;)
<snap-l> Here's your new and improved all-digital tin-foil hat. Enjoy.
<brousch> run your own server
<greg-g> WMF is probably going to throw up a Freenode server :)
<greg-g> pending legal approval
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesome.
<jrwren_> cryptocat FTW
<rick_h__> jrwren_: who are you working for now? /me keeps mixing it up
<rick_h__> jrwren_: nvm, see arbor networks now. I keep mising them and baracuda networks up
<jrwren_> :)
<rick_h__> mis/mix
<snap-l> TIL: there is a blorple.com
<snap-l> (no, I don't know what it is outside of a DNS lookup)
<greg-g> so, a tricky question to ask someone: "Have you heard of this story that you don't really want to hear?"  .... if I answer yes, I lie. If I answer no, I get to hear the story I don't want to hear. I have to then say "no, but I don't want to hear it" and sound like an ass. :/
<greg-g> there's this one person who does this all the time, which is really annoying
<snap-l> greg-g: The problem is you've limited yourself to either/or dichotomy
<greg-g> Right, it's how the question was asked!
<snap-l> There's more than a yes/no answer, along with the associated guilt / endurance
<greg-g> how would you answer to get out of it?
<brousch> Punch him in the groin and run away
<snap-l> Other answers include:
<snap-l> 1) Answer: MUP! and then walk away.
<greg-g> brousch: it's a she, but also a coworker, so a no go ;)
<brousch> More fun for you then!
<greg-g> snap-l: I'm being ambushed at my desk!
<brousch> "I would love to hear it, but I really need to <work thing> right now"
<snap-l> 2) Yell "CAPTCHA" and then show her a hand-drawn squiggle on a piece of paper.
<greg-g> brousch: yep, that's it.
<greg-g> snap-l: though this gets an honorable mention
<snap-l> greg-g: say plainly "I need 30 minutes of uniterrupted focus for this project. Please come back, and I'll be with you then
<snap-l> generally speaking folks won't return
<snap-l> and if she doesn't get the hint, ask her for the number of words that have been written about all Marvel properties because Disney wants a cut.
<wolfger> greg-g: I vote for "no, but I don't want to hear it". I'm ok with being an ass when it comes to those situations.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-08
<snap-l> morn'
<brousch> nog
<rick_h__> ugh
<rick_h__> though first day of t-ball, so good excuse to get my first baseball glove in for ever
<snap-l> nice. :)
<rick_h__> welp, cleaned out my rv camping amazon wishlist. 29 items in one order. I think that's a new record.
<brousch> you ordered 29 things?
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, big list of stuff for the camper
<rick_h__> never seen the shopping card paginate before, went into 3 pages
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-09
<snap-l> Wow.
<snap-l> rick_h__: So, doing the camping thing this year, or just getting ready for next year?
<rick_h__> snap-l: this year. Hopefully, if all goes well will be putting in to buy a trailer end of this week and then work on getting it tweaked and setup
<rick_h__> it'd be awesome if we could use it for the 4th of july, but might be later in july we get going with it.
<rick_h__> but I think we've got 3 or four trips planned for this year and a big one of taking it to VA for the family visit
<snap-l> Cool
<rick_h__> cool, mako is going to be in ann arbor greg-g
<rick_h__> http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/london-and-michigan
<snap-l> Good morning
<wolfger> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<wolfger> rick_h__: is always so noncommittal about the quality of the morning...
<rick_h__> wolfger: well, sometimes it's hard to tell
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Could be a good morning, but could be a bad morning all the same
<snap-l> sounds like an A.A. Milne story. :)
<greg-g> rick_h__: yeah, saw that, kinda jealous. 4 weeks of mako should be a fun time.
 * greg-g watches the Snowden interview
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, read that stuff. Interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-02
<cmaloney> eeeeeeevening
<boren_> eve
<cmaloney> Going to get started
<cmaloney> Welcome everyone to the June 2014 Ubuntu US MI meeting
<cmaloney> Who all is present?
<jrwren> but... but... COSMOS!!!
<cmaloney> oh ffs
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, here's the link to the agenda:
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/754/detail/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xCSCLD - Regular monthly Ubuntu US MI IRC meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal
<cmaloney> As you can see there's not much on the agenda
<cmaloney> so it's fortunate that we're competing with COSMOS. ;)
<cmaloney> Big item is Ohio Linuxfest is coming up
<cmaloney> Who all is going to OLF?
<cmaloney> Dont all speak up at once. :)
<boren_> hahaha
<happylemur> I'll be at OLF!  (I'm the speaker chair this year.)
<cmaloney> Awesome!
<happylemur> Please check out the call for proposals - due date is July 24.
<cmaloney> Will do.
<happylemur> https://ohiolinux.org/CFP
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OiIhdl - Call for Presentations | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 - The Future of Free
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cmaloney> Not sure if the Ohio loco will be there this year.
<happylemur> Any questions about speaking, e-mail speakers@ohiolinux.org.  General questions to team@ohiolinux.org.  We look forward to getting a bunch of attendees from MI again this year!
<happylemur> Yes, in the past we've had Ubucon on Friday, but we haven't made plans yet for this year.
<cmaloney> Coolness
<cmaloney> We'd like to be a part of that if possible.
<happylemur> We're actually having our planning meeting right now, #ohiolinux on OFTC.  :)  Feel free to stop in.
<cmaloney> I think that would be pretty awesome. :)
<cmaloney> Bah, oftc? No Freenode? :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, keep thinking about that in the bacn of your minds
<happylemur> Sure thing, thanks.
<cmaloney> kk, that's all I have at the moment
<cmaloney> other than than you everyone who came out to the Penguicon release party
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> That was an awesome time
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/bFeQGg5ZcU7
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/aeyVIQ - Pictures from the release partyï»¿
<cmaloney> If anyone has some photos of the party please let me know
<cmaloney> Anyone have anything else?
<cmaloney> OK, thank you everyone for coming out!
<wolfger> late again... meeting over?
<cmaloney> Impeccable timing. :)
<wolfger> but of course
<wolfger> usually I'm slightly later and don't even bother trying, but tonight I thought I might catch the tail end
<wolfger> I blame everybody else for being punctual and getting right to business. :-p
<cmaloney> heh
<wolfger> oh well, off to bed.
<cmaloney> Laterness
<brousch_> Is it Friday yet? I'm ready for a weekend
<mrgoodcat> so tired.
<brousch_> yes
<brousch_> Preparing for camping is a lot of work. I'm not sure the relaxation I'll derive from it will compensate for the stress of preparing
<mrgoodcat> ha i hope it does
<mrgoodcat> i just had a super long weekend with very little sleep
<mrgoodcat> friday work then water ski, sat. wake up at 7 for belle isle grand prix until 7pm, dinner with gf in detroit, comedy show until midnight, bar until 1:30, sleep 2am to 5am, wake up for waterskiing, ski until 11am, brother's lacrosse tournament until 6pm
<cmaloney> Yeah, this month is going to be busy for me as well.
<cmaloney> Also: Good morning
<brousch_> cmaloney: Sorry I missed your meeting again. I was slaying 10 year old hairballs and dustbunnies that were killing my wife and child
<cmaloney> What's that in human years?
<cmaloney> brousch_: Also: no worries.
<brousch_> We got a ginormous new elliptical and had to clean a room that had become storage for a decade
<cmaloney> Oh lovely.
<brousch_> rick_h_: If you want to see bats, walk around this hotel. My wife and I stayed here about 7 years ago. The bats squish themselves into the cracks in the rock facades and sleep all day. It is nuts. http://www.super8.com/hotels/michigan/mackinaw-city/super-8-mackinaw-city-bridgeview-area/hotel-overview
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/QC3SDQ - Super 8 Bridgeview of Mackinaw City | Mackinaw City, MI 49701 Motel
<MaskedDriver> brousch_ I got married on Mackinac Island last September. That super 8 is where my family stayed the night before the wedding. They liked it
<brousch_> Did they notice the bats?
<brousch_> You might not see them unless you looked closely
<cmaloney> As long as they're not flapping around my head I am A-OK with them doing everything they can to stay out of my way. :)
<brousch_> If they are flapping around your head that means they are eating the bugs that would be stinging you
<MaskedDriver> brousch_: I noticed a few bats. I don't know if they did. My mom would have lost her mind if she saw one.
<MaskedDriver> Nowhere near as many as when you're actually on the island though. There is a staircase that goes up the side of the big hill in front of the fort up to the West Bluff. You walk up those stairs at night and you have bats swarming you.
<MaskedDriver> I love it
<MaskedDriver> gets your adrenaline rushing
<brousch_> Did you get a photo with Jerry3PO while you were there?
<MaskedDriver> Jerry3PO?
<MaskedDriver> aoh nvm
<MaskedDriver> lol no
<brousch_> https://twitter.com/Jerry_3PO
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/e5i7XB - Jerry 3PO (Jerry_3PO) on Twitter
<MaskedDriver> it was there in September?
<brousch_> It was by the Boy Scout camp
<MaskedDriver> crazy. No, I didn't really get a chance to walk around the island. Was busy getting things ready and then getting married and stuff
<MaskedDriver> is it still there?
<MaskedDriver> We're going up there this september, too
<brousch_> I don't know
<brousch_> MaskedDriver: Hah! found the photo https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5kygsdijb1dkih/IMG_0229.JPG
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/baBvsj - Dropbox - IMG_0229.JPG
<MaskedDriver> lol yeah I saw that
<MaskedDriver> there was an article I was looking at that had a better one
<MaskedDriver> hang on
<mrgoodcat> MaskedDriver: got married?
<MaskedDriver> in September
<MaskedDriver> on Mackinac Island
<mrgoodcat> congratulations!
<brousch_> And from the back side of the fort https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ukphqolydh8vem/IMG_0228.JPG
<MaskedDriver> thanks
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0iJ2Fc - Dropbox - IMG_0228.JPG
<MaskedDriver> http://metsguyinmichigan.blogspot.com/2013/10/bad-postcard-of-week-obstacles-of.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/IZOdcK - Mets Guy in Michigan: Bad postcard of the week: Obstacles of Mackinac Island
<MaskedDriver> last picture brousch_
<mrgoodcat> bookiebot is one of the most active bmark.us users now
<brousch_> heh
<jrwren> i don't remember that giant bust statue
<brousch_> jrwren: It has a name!
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> I'll take some pics and post them somewhere for you guys if it's still there this year
<jrwren> i'm going up there later this month :)
<brousch_> At ArtPrize, I have a photo of my son picking its nose
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: well go find it!
<jrwren> i shall
<jrwren> and I shall find out if it was there 10 yrs ago when I was last there.
<MaskedDriver> lol
<brousch_> No
<brousch_> It was in ArtPrize 2012. It did not exist before then
<brousch_> https://twitter.com/Jerry_3PO/status/250661525180776449
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fmoxzs - Twitter / Jerry_3PO: RT @brousch: Hey @Jerry_3PO ...
<brousch_> I guess I picked the nose
<MaskedDriver> lol nice
<brousch_> It was weird interacting with it at ArtPrize in 2012, then having it randomly show up on Mackinac during our vacation in 2013
<greg-g> https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10306763_10152391240340520_8109214818765804761_n.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/crgbcx - image/jpeg
<MaskedDriver> brousch_: lol yeah I'm sure
<MaskedDriver> my wife's family has been going up there every year for the mackinac race every year for the last 10 years. I started going with them a few years ago
<jrwren> hrm... beware, if you have a /usr/local/bin/python, even a symlink, dh_make --with-python2 will use it instead of /usr/bin/python when replacing /usr/bin/env
<greg-g> grrr, effing googletalkplugin
<greg-g> I hate google
<greg-g> 1) kept logging me into my personal account even though I was using my work email/password (it auto-linked them), 2) won't let me easily do a hangout with non-@wikimedia.org email address people, and now 3) it spams (>1 message/sec) my stdout with junk during a hangout
<jrwren> greg-g: i hate it too... ya know what the solution is?  use chrome and chrome profiles.
<jrwren> seriously. I've given up on using google products in FF :(
<greg-g> I have separate Fx profiles
<jrwren> ouch. gotta be a way to unlink then.
<greg-g> yeah, will futz with later
<cmaloney> I actually saw this happen. I guy was speeding down a hill near the Grand Hotel â and looked experienced enough to know better â and a driver reached out and whacked him as he sped by.  The driver looked at what must have been my horrified expression and said, âI tried to slow him down.â Didn't work.
<cmaloney> (from the http://metsguyinmichigan.blogspot.com/2013/10/bad-postcard-of-week-obstacles-of.html link)
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/IZOdcK - Mets Guy in Michigan: Bad postcard of the week: Obstacles of Mackinac Island
<mrgoodcat> an android phone stock email client can read the inbox but not the folders of an IMAP account. Other clients can read the folders, the same client can read the folders of another imap account. wth?
<greg-g> http://www.sysvalue.com/en/heartbleed-cupid-wireless/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cVwyUw - SysValue - Heartbleed, Cupid and Wireless
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: why would you use imap. its android email client, gmail only!
<jrwren> :)
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: K9 is the usually-recommended imap client for Android
<mrgoodcat> yea k9 seems to work
<mrgoodcat> but i'm pretty stumped by this issue
<brousch_> The issue is half-assed IMAP clients
<brousch_> You try it out and conclude "IMAP doesn't work well. I'll just switch to Gmail"
<jrwren> and this drives google lock-inn
<brousch_> Yes
<brousch_> On the other hand Apple wants you to use IMAP so you don't switch to Gmail, so they give you a nice client
<jrwren> indeed.
<brousch_> At least the ecosystem is open so others can write full-featured apps that compete with Android core apps
<jrwren> mostly-open
<brousch_> I guess they've kicked out porn apps and "hacking" apps
<brousch_> Of course you can add a third-party app store for those
<brousch_> I have Google Play, Amazon App Store, and F-Droid app store on my devices.
<jrwren> mostly-open stores there :)
<jrwren> i say mostly-open because you can't add googleplay store on some devices
<brousch_> That's true
<brousch_> Although my $40 MK802+ Android-on-a-stick and my $40 el-cheapo tablet have Google Play, so the barrier can't be too high
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I don't think there's a "Standard" android client
<cmaloney> I think there's some shit hacked-together client that gets included by default.
<cmaloney> Much like the UNIX mail client.
<brousch_> cmaloney: http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/10/31/apk-download-heres-the-default-email-app-from-android-4-4-with-gmail-style-ui-and-a-slide-out-menu/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Q1gTLp - APK Download: Here's The Default Email App From Android 4.4, With Gmail-Style UI And A Slide-Out Menu
<jrwren> what do you do with your mk802?
<jrwren> i've never found a good use for mine.
<cmaloney> It might make a food doorstop assuming your doors aren't too high
<cmaloney> Put a sensor on it and it can let you know how much force the door is exerting on it.
<brousch_> jrwren: I turned it into an extreme pinewood derby car, but not much else
<brousch_> cmaloney: Hooking sensors to it really requires an Arduino or similar
<cmaloney> how is that even legal Pinewood derby?
<brousch_> It's not. It's extreme
<cmaloney> So whay, you used it as a bumper for the front?
<cmaloney> It'd make a really shit spoiler.
<brousch_> https://www.facebook.com/events/165575080280158/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wuzJKi - Cannonsburg Pintwood Derby presented by Perrin Brewing Co. | Facebook
<brousch_> The track had 6 lanes, so it was supposed to ride along the actual races and take video
<cmaloney> This webpage is not available
 * cmaloney doesn't tell brousch_ that he has facebook.com -> 127.0.0.1 on the router's hosts file. ;)
<brousch_> Fine http://www.wzzm13.com/video/2656774677001/1/Wooden-cars-fly-at-Pintwood-Derby
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TnpOBS - Wooden cars fly at Pintwood Derby | Video | wzzm13.com
<cmaloney> Uses flash
<jrwren> brousch_: cool
<brousch_> cmaloney: I am not responsible for your self-crippled Internet
<cmaloney> brousch_: Why do you hate freedom?
<cmaloney> bcmutt
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> missed the CTRL.
<_stink_> mcbutt
<_stink_> you're welcome for that.
<rick_h_> muttbutt?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-03
<mrgoodcat> morn
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<brousch_> excellent
<brousch_> Worked out on the new elliptical and had a donut with my son
<mrgoodcat> not a bad start
<mrgoodcat> i got coffee and now i'm going over MRC reports
<mrgoodcat> yay....
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<jrwren> mmmm. donut is SUCH a good idea.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Desperate Cry (Scott Burns Mix) by Sepultura on Arise 
<cmaloney> Such an awesome album
<cmaloney> Highly recommend everyone give this album a listen.
<cmaloney> That album is Sepultura's Masters of Puppets, easily.
<cmaloney> with Beneath the Remains being their Ride the Lightning
<cmaloney> so good.
<cmaloney> It's apparently I know shit about how DOS / Windows work. ;)
<brousch_> No Windows, no Facebook, no Flash? Do you enjoy your 0.1% of the Internet?
<cmaloney> Pthhhhpt
<mrgoodcat> without windows, facebook, and flash i'm much happier
<mrgoodcat> well i do facebook occasionally, but really only to respond to messages
<jrwren> cmaloney is the 1%
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Anyone want to send me a linkedin invitation? I'd like to check to see if my mail server filtering is working properly.
<cmaloney> craig@cinciclassic.org (pretty sure I haven't used that one yet).
<rick_h_> cmaloney: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14317129956/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/AHkMCB - Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14153689460/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/uccKLU - Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<cmaloney> Heh. That's awesome.
<cmaloney> I love how they call it "Soo Locks" and not "Sioux "
<cmaloney> Or Sault Locks.
<cmaloney> Ah, they're not named for the Sioux.
<cmaloney> Thought they might be
<cmaloney> but apparently it's because it connects Sault Ste. Marie in Ontario and Michigan.
<cmaloney> Did not know that.
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soo_Locks#Engineers_Day
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/l7FLDq - Soo Locks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> That's cool
<rick_h_> darn bugs messing up my bridge shot https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14153795938/in/photostream/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bJowPC - Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<greg-g> are you live photoing/irc'ing?
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> watching the photos go up
<rick_h_> while relaxing after getting things unpacked
<greg-g> ahhhh
<rick_h_> "And this picture is from that one time, at band camps..."
<mrgoodcat>  http://coolwanglu.github.io/vim.js/web/vim.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dtLPRz - Vim.js - Web port of Vim
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-04
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch_> tired
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/109276/kanban-automotive-revolution <- rick_h_
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/g2VakR - Kanban: Automotive Revolution | Board Game | BoardGameGeek
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> Reminder: CHC tonight at 8pm.
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> anybody remember when waf said he was leaving
<mrgoodcat> ?
<rick_h_> later this month I believe
<cmaloney> Yeah, not sure when he's heading out.
<mrgoodcat> school budgets are ridiculous
<brousch_> Correct. Schools should have an unlimited amount of money to spend
<mrgoodcat> i meant more along the lines of being opaque
<mrgoodcat> i can't tell at all how much my district spends on technology
<mrgoodcat> or anything for that matter
<brousch_> Trust them to spend it wisely and appropriately
<mrgoodcat> all i can find is that my district spent 82 million last year on ~5400 students
<mrgoodcat> about 15k per student
<cmaloney> Trust them to try to wring every dime out of that budget
<brousch_> Seems reasonable. That's like 20 ipads each
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> thats total budget. not IT
<cmaloney> That's pathetic.
<brousch_> 20 ipads can replace the teachers. You can even build a little fort from them
<mrgoodcat> based on KHPS technology budget, which is 600k non-salary (i know the tech director) for 3313 students. if the ratios hold the same that's 180 per student in their district. 280 per student in mine
<mrgoodcat> their total budget was 30.6 million last year
<mrgoodcat> per student per year that is
<cmaloney> Yep, teachers getting fat on that dosh.
<cmaloney> (that's sarcasm)
<mrgoodcat> teachers get paid a lot in my district
<cmaloney> That's good. Keep it up. They need it.
<cmaloney> Also: define "a lot"
<mrgoodcat> we had a couple bmws, a 5.0L mustang fastback, a bunch of cadillacs, and some euro sportscars
<mrgoodcat> teachers driving them
<_stink_> maybe they just spent irresponsibly.
<cmaloney> Are you sure that was "teachers" and not "administrators"?
<mrgoodcat> all of them?
<mrgoodcat> for sure teachers
<cmaloney> Maybe they wanted somewhere nice to live.
<_stink_> haha
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch_> Maybe they have rich spouces
<mrgoodcat> seems unlikely they all had rich spouses
<brousch_> just those 5
<mrgoodcat> 5?
<mrgoodcat> our administrators drove even nicer cars
<cmaloney> I love that teachers are "paid well" if they drive a car that isn't a broken down Yugo
<jrwren> .np
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: requires your username
<mrgoodcat> .np dyladan
<bookiebot> dyladan's last track - Rise & Fall (feat. Krewella) by Adventure Club on Rise & Fall (feat. Krewella) [27 May 2014, 12:33]
<jrwren> 15k per student?!?!   where are you mrgoodcat ?  that is like 2X here.
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Capital Punishment (original) by :Wumpscut:
<jrwren> playing at work, with no headphones :p
<mrgoodcat> bloomfield hills
<_stink_> sigh.
<cmaloney> As opposed to industry where if you drive a Caddy or BMW you're "successful"
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think they had to have nicer cars in Bloomfield HIlls
<mrgoodcat> fine. would you be happier if i said our teachers were successful?
<cmaloney> otherwise they'd get towed as being "noxious vehicles"
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: They taught you, so I'd concur. ;)
<mrgoodcat> :)
<jrwren> i like my 12yr old chevy with 150k miles.  I likely make more than those teachers :p
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Closed View by In my shiver on Delicate Poison [4 Jun 2014, 03:31]
<mrgoodcat> ok so our budget says 44 million for teacher salaries. 5400 students. 14.29 students per teacher.
<mrgoodcat> i worked it out to 116.5k average
<mrgoodcat> which is a reasonable salary
<mrgoodcat> some are obviously higher, some lower
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Be careful with those numbers
<mrgoodcat> i know
<cmaloney> not all of that goes to teachers.
<mrgoodcat> budget reports usck
<cmaloney> I'd be surprised if most of those teachers made more than $50K
<jrwren> much of it goes to employer paid taxes, health care, and pension.
<mrgoodcat> it would appear you are correct http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/michigan/teacher-salary-in-bloomfield-hills-school-district/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/CTyt85 - Bloomfield Hills School District Average Teacher Salary & How to Become a Teacher
<mrgoodcat> most of that "average salary" must be administrators
<jrwren> that said teacher, not administrator
<_stink_> plus those scales are always stacked heavily in favor of the old codgers who stick around forever.
<_stink_> and bully the newcomers into voting for contracts that only skew the scale more.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i misread it. 44 million was total salary apparently. not just teachers
<cmaloney> yep
<jrwren> i see
<mrgoodcat> damn glad i'm not gonna be a teacher
<_stink_> new teachers get shit for pay.  it's terrible.
<cmaloney> I would hesitate to recommaend anyone become a teacher at this point.
<_stink_> < $40k is very commong.
<_stink_> -g
<mrgoodcat> average in the district is 54k
<cmaloney> Unless you a) really enjoyed teaching b) enjoyed having plutocrats tell you how to run your classroom, and c) were a masochist.
<jrwren> isn't 33k national median pay?
<cmaloney> not sure.
<_stink_> wikipedia says $44.4k in 2004.
<mrgoodcat> so teachers in my district are about median it seems
<mrgoodcat> assuming growth rates held
<mrgoodcat> my district is better off than most though
<cmaloney> Oh, and d) value having people tell you you're not doing enough when you're pulling 16 hour days and weekends.
<cmaloney> e) can smile when people tell you you have your summers off even though it's forced unemployment with no way to file for unemployment.
<jrwren> 44k for teacher median.
<jrwren> i meant overall US median pay
<_stink_> jrwren: that's the overall number according to the Arbiter of All Truths, wikipedia.
<mrgoodcat> kalimazoo's peregrine falcons gave birth :)
<mrgoodcat> first time ever in kzoo
<mrgoodcat> w00t
<jrwren> huh, seems high. awesome.
<jrwren> yay falcons!
<mrgoodcat> they used to leave pidgeon corpses all over the city
<mrgoodcat> like torn to pieces
<mrgoodcat> falcons are badass
<jrwren> thank them. the corpses decay faster without the added meat.
<mrgoodcat> we used to have only two though. now there are more
<mrgoodcat> it's about to be pidgeonmageddon in kzoo
<mrgoodcat> at least 4 it seems
<mrgoodcat> nobody knows how many they had yet
<mrgoodcat> 4 babies that is
<mrgoodcat> someone should make a gtk fork that incorporates george takei phrases as function names
<mrgoodcat> oh_my would be error logging
<mrgoodcat> on_screen_mr_sulu for printing to screen
<cmaloney> Feel free to take that up
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> How's the afternoon so far?
<greg-g> still morning
<greg-g> still getting going
<greg-g> my day: booked solid between 10:30am and 3pm (solid, like, no lunch) then another 3:30-4.
<cmaloney> Ugh
<greg-g> rick_h_ and I are similar beasts now
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<greg-g> I'd share a screenshot of my calendar if it didn't have interviewee names in it
<rick_h_> greg-g: :) yea, there are some days I want to screenshot and post it but can't
<rick_h_> "You guys won't believe it unless you actually see it...oh well"
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> and this is after I canceled two overlapping meetings :)
<waf> mrgoodcat: i'm leaving on the 16th
<waf> so two more CHCs in my immediate future
<rick_h_> woot!
 * rick_h_ goes and grabs the bookie t-shirts. one is for waf I believe
<brousch_> rick_h_: Are they signed and numbered?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Drowning With Silence by Soilwork on The Living Infinite
<cmaloney> waf: Coolness
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: for future generations
<mrgoodcat> can anybody recommend a good python plotting library?
<mrgoodcat> want to make a line graph
<rick_h_> matplot is the standard
<rick_h_> or do it client side in d3 :P
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Bathyalpelagic III: Disequillibrated by The Ocean on Pelagial [4 Jun 2014, 19:07]
<cmaloney> hurm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-05
<jrwren> good morning openssl
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> hey
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what about ssl?
<jrwren> moar vulns
<cmaloney> Yeah, now that people are looking at openssl and not taking it for granted we're getting more vuln reports.
<cmaloney> Though are these in the "regen your certs" category?
<cmaloney> I didn't think so
<jrwren> not sure. one is a MITM vuln, but not sure if that leaks a private key or not
<mrgoodcat> http://shrturl.co/MhCOZ
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v9V3OP - Apple to Open Source OS X Mavericks After The Release of Yosemite
<cmaloney> Um, where in that article does it even mention Open source, releasing source, or anything source?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> http://shrturl.co/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/imfmzq - SHRTURL - Faking the web since 1942
<cmaloney> Or has TechCrunch hit a new way to drive clicks to their site
<cmaloney> Lovely.
<cmaloney> Remind me to smack you in the near future.
<mrgoodcat> saw it on hacker news and i had to
<mrgoodcat> :)
<cmaloney> No, no you didn't.
<jrwren> its linkbate.
<jrwren> bait
<mrgoodcat> i could have changed the picture and the article
<jrwren> its fail.
<jrwren> we need a bot to warn us of the link is gigaom or techcrunch
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: http://shrturl.co/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/imfmzq - SHRTURL - Faking the web since 1942
<cmaloney> gigaom doesn't irritate nearly as much as techCrunch
<cmaloney> At least gigaom makes long-term bullshit predictions
<cmaloney> TechCrunch makes short-term bullshit-stirring bullshit.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: were you referring to the CCS vuln?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: no
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/g7yIRU - text/plain; charset=UTF-8
<mrgoodcat> yea thats the same one
<mrgoodcat> here's a good article about it http://ccsinjection.lepidum.co.jp/blog/2014-06-05/CCS-Injection-en/index.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Me0eFx - How I discovered CCS Injection Vulnerability (CVE-2014-0224) - CCS Injection
<mrgoodcat> just..... why?...... http://opalrb.org/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sdRqk - Opal: Ruby to Javascript Compiler
<cmaloney> I love when folks come over to my cube and look at my screens and say that this is "old school" development. :)
<mrgoodcat> what, vim?
<cmaloney> Just in general
<cmaloney> Not sure what they expected
<cmaloney> Some Geoerge Jetson setup or something
<cmaloney> Though they didn't know what a Timex Sinclair 1000 was
 * cmaloney has one at his desk
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> does it still work?
<mrgoodcat> they only made those for like one year
<cmaloney> Huh? I think you're thinking of the ZX80
<cmaloney> That was pretty short-lived until the ZX81 came out
<cmaloney> and those lasted for quite some time
<cmaloney> 'bout 3-5 years iirc.
<cmaloney> And yeah, it still works. Thing was built like a tank.
<mrgoodcat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timex_Sinclair_1000
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/F5U5 - Timex Sinclair 1000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<mrgoodcat> released in 82
<mrgoodcat> discontinued in 83
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fpTTs - ZX81 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> 1981 - 1984
<cmaloney> Had a shorter run in the states
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - I've Sold Your Organs On the Black Market to Finance the Purchase of a Used Minivan by Everything Goes Cold on Vs. General Failure
<greg-g> good title
<cmaloney> Good song.
<cmaloney> Also a reminder why I have never enabled "show what I'm currently playing" at work. :)
<cmaloney> 47 songs with the F-bomb in the title alone.
<greg-g> "at work" as in "on my work IM account"?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> hahaha.
<mrgoodcat> why is java so suck?
<mrgoodcat> i keep typing python methods
<mrgoodcat> and it doesn't compile
<mrgoodcat> and i'm all FUUUUUUU
<mrgoodcat> simply reading a file line by line should be simpler than this
<mrgoodcat> but NOOOOO
<mrgoodcat> you have to make a FactoryFactory to make a FileReaderFactory to make a FileReader to pass into a BufferedReader that you got from your BufferedReaderFactory
<mrgoodcat> who seriously fucking thinks of this shit?
<brousch__> factory workers
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> java must be a union job
<waf> didn't java just release a much better file api?
<brousch__> waf: Don't try to quell the Java rage
<waf> ah yeah, Files.readAllLines to get a list of lines, and if line-by-line is important, use Scanner.nextLine
<waf> the trick with java is to ignore every search result from 2011 or so and before.
<waf> another trick is not to use it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-06
<waf> ...man, nothing like java-talk to kill a channel.
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> for cmaloney http://i.imgur.com/bZcRPFL.gif
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/awQfJn - image/gif
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morn
<cmaloney> greg-g: love it. :)
<mrgoodcat> hey
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Killer Inside Me by MC 900 Ft Jesus on Welcome to My Dream
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - King of the Universe by Planet X on Universe
<mrgoodcat> you guys know there is no "continue" statement for excel macros?
<mrgoodcat> brousch__: to be fair they are direct competitors...
<brousch__> Now the only thing I still use on Yahoo is dead to me
<cmaloney> brousch__: Yahoo can die in a fire indeed.
<rick_h_> really? Remind me how I can sign into google with my MS account?
<rick_h_> why is this a firing offense?
<mrgoodcat> yahoo can die in a fire but removing google/facebook sign in has nothing to do with that for me
<brousch__> It's a firing offense because the only thing I use on Yahoo is flickr via google account
<rick_h_> ok, so use flickr with your own flickr accoutn
<rick_h_> I don't get it
<brousch__> Is it just a flickr account, or is a yahoo account?
<cmaloney> it' a Yahoo accout
<cmaloney> so you get Yahoo Mail (which can die in a fire)
<rick_h_> it's a yahoo account, just as your google docs account is a gmail accoutn
<rick_h_> account
<rick_h_> yay, I want google plus without gmail :P
<cmaloney> gmail rules
<rick_h_> I don't get the hate for something working like every other thing out there working
<cmaloney> Yahoo Mail makes baby Jesus sad
<brousch__> Google good. Yahoo sucks
<rick_h_> it seems like some sort of M$ crap hate stuff
<rick_h_> except you want to use flickr...which is yahoo...
<cmaloney> flickr good
<brousch__> The rest of yahoo sucks
<cmaloney> flickr was good
<cmaloney> now flickr bad
<rick_h_> ok, then flickr bad. diaf seems extreme, though I have to say flickr better than the stupid google photos crap
<brousch__> Yes it is
<rick_h_> I still can't figure out how to share a link to a photo directly
<brousch__> All photo sites sucks
<brousch__> I might go back to smugmug
 * rick_h_ looks at 500px
<brousch__> Has anyone set up a mediagoblin instance?
<rick_h_> no, that requires work. I'm paying for a temp reviewboard instance to try it out because I don't have time to setup services
<brousch__> Don't you work for a team whose job it is to make service setup easier?
<rick_h_> brousch__: yea, if this works out I'll work on updating the reviewboard charm, get it launched in a cloud provider, and run it from there.
<rick_h_> but to test "is this worth the time to use" paying a few $$ and trying it is easier
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: make a photo app
<rick_h_> no
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> just no
<brousch__> I bmark all photos in dropbox and use unique tags to create albums
<mrgoodcat> whats with all this "TDD is dead" stuff?
<jrwren> just DHH being stupid.
<mrgoodcat> this one is kent beck
<mrgoodcat> so actually it's not
<mrgoodcat> it's just a conversation between kent beck and dhh about tdd
<rick_h_> DHH did a talk where he ranted against TDD and people were complaining that doing TDD in RoR is hard because DHH doesn't buy in
<rick_h_> and DDH's answer to RoR being hard to do good TDD was "$%@#$#@ TDD, it's pointless anyway"
<rick_h_> and then the fireworks started
<rick_h_> it all comes back down to "do the testing that works for you and your code by doing testing dammit"
<mrgoodcat> yea thats pretty much what kent said
<cmaloney> brousch__: I thought about installing a Mediagoblin instance but not sure how to get Python to run under PHP. :)
<cmaloney> I think the whole TDD as religion got a little out of hand
<cmaloney> Much like Agile where you had to have consultants tell you how to be Agile
<brousch__> cmaloney: wat?
<jrwren> cmaloney: big A v. little a for agile :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: And that's part of the problem.
<cmaloney> What used to be catholic became Catholic.
<jrwren> pythonistas... i'm getting a ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package, on a module where I do have a __init__.py :(
<cmaloney> Where are you doing the import?
<rick_h_> I'd guess the relative means the package you're looking at isn't the one you think it is
<jrwren> in a module in that package
<jrwren> maybe not.  weird.
<jrwren> setup.py strikes again... maybe :)
<jrwren> someday i'm going to be a python module and package  master... someday :p
<jrwren> from __future__ import absolute_import is behaving exactly opposite as I expected, I think.
<jrwren> ya know what is tedius?  correctly getting multiple decorators applied to a single function, both manipulating kwargs
<rick_h_> hmm, delicious go boom? http://r.bmark.us/u/5213759470bdb2
<brousch__> rick_h_: It says "selling off Delicious", so someone will be newly motivated to keep it going
<greg-g> brousch__: you assume they'll buy it for more than the one time social data
<brousch__> greg-g: I saw some single-person hammock/tents and thought of you camping
<greg-g> :)
 * rick_h_ dreams of breaking out the hennesey hammock sometime
<brousch__> We're going to Jellystone at Silver Lake tomorrow - Monday
<brousch__> Tent and cots
<brousch__> How dangerous is it to camp in a canoe?
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - You Are My The Rock by Alpha Male Tea Party on Droids [6 Jun 2014, 16:38]
<rick_h_> in the canoe?
<cmaloney> Make sure it's aluminum so you'll be safe during a thunderstorm.
<brousch__> rick_h_: Yeah, sounds kind of peaceful
<jrwren> watch out for sharks!
<rick_h_> point it down the middle of the river
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Reach For The Stars Kid But Don't Blame Me If It Makes You Miserable by Alpha Male Tea Party
<cmaloney> Dammit, I didn't catch the right title
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Undone by Rotersand on Welcome To Goodbye
<cmaloney> http://superstardestroyer.bandcamp.com/album/droids
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zDy3Ya - Droids | Superstar Destroyer Records
<cmaloney> The titles of the tracks are pretty funny
<cmaloney> not to mention the songs are very good
 * cmaloney picked up the CD.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - I Haven't Had A Lunch Break Since Windows Vista Came Out by Alpha Male Tea Party
<brousch__> Heh https://twitter.com/stevekovach/status/474938524211634176/photo/1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jI1edi - Twitter / stevekovach: So Apple uses Macs running ...
<cmaloney> Why is this surprising?
<cmaloney> The software they use is likely not Mac compatible. :)
<jrwren> remember when apple stores used Windows CE hand held devices to check you out?
<brousch__> I have never bought anything at an Apple store
<jrwren> hehe, i'm gonna buy a new mac book air and run ubuntu on it :p
<rick_h_> have fun, it's a :( thing
<rick_h_> as somone running ubuntu on an air
<brousch__> What is sad about it?
<jrwren> rick_h_: yeah, what is sad about it?
<rick_h_> lack of camera, crappy keyboard, lack of battery life, sorry touchpad support/integration and inability to not bump it
<jrwren> i LOVE 13" mac book air. I've never seen anything that comes close.
<rick_h_> lack of middle-click, lack of ways around middle-click paste, and giant screen bezel on the 11" model sucks
<jrwren> ok... correction... i'm gonna buy a new mac book air and run ubuntu in parallels :p
<rick_h_> fusion works ok
<rick_h_> but that just means osx picks up all the stupid key bindings you want to use in linux which sucks as well
<jrwren> ok... correction... i'm not gonna run ubuntu on a laptop :p
<mrgoodcat> how 2 scrobble pandora? anybody have a good ff or chrome extension?
<cmaloney> They had iphones the last time I was there.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I use a Logitech Squeezebox for all my listening
<cmaloney> I think you could use Pandora under that and have it stream / scrobble.
<cmaloney> Hey, anyone want to do C#, .Net, Oracle SQL and JAVA for Oakland County?
<cmaloney> ping me.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: is it a job or just one project?
<rick_h_> lol you're funny
<mrgoodcat> me or cmaloney?
<greg-g> cmaloney: I forgot how much I liked Tomahawk
 * greg-g is re-ripping to flac some CDs that I lost my oggs of in The Great Harddrive Disaster of 2013
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I can forward you the notice if you want
<cmaloney> pm me your email address.
<mrgoodcat> sure why not
<jrwren> greg-g: *gsap*
<jrwren> greg-g: you didn't itunes match?  :p
<greg-g> guh wha?
<greg-g> it's now managed in git-annex in two main locations (not counting ephemeral laptop subset): 1 external harddrive on my desk, my NAS which is a 2 drive RAID 1.
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's current track - Flashback by Tomahawk on Tomahawk
<brousch__> cmaloney: Did you see LEGO's new line of female scientist minifigs?
<brousch__> Your wife is in there
<cmaloney> brousch__: Yeah, I saw those.
<cmaloney> Pretty cool. :)
<greg-g> .np Phlegethon
<bookiebot> Phlegethon's current track - Mayonnaise by WookieFoot on Domesticated
<greg-g> "Doctor I confess I live IN sanity, and I'll be there if you need me."
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z52dcA813BE
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DLLmLQ - Wookiefoot Out loud - YouTube
<jrwren> oh man, next week is UDS already?
<jrwren> sheesh!
<jrwren> seems like it was just UDS 6 months ago :)
<greg-g> where is it?   :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-07
<jrwren> greg-g: oh greg! :)
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Tapporauta by Korpiklaani on Nuclear Blast Showdown Spring 2008
<cmaloney> oh Last.fm you cray cray
<jrwren> anyone know of a tool which will take a python stack trace and let me walk those files in vim?
<jrwren> zomg, 2 yrs later-ish - i finally fix my byobu tmux binding to the behavior I want.
<jrwren> sometimes I htink python3 is not worth it.
<jrwren> someone should fork python3 and make a python that doesn't suck.
<jrwren> way too many wrong decisions in python3
<jrwren> nevermind, I take it all back.  :p
<jrwren> but seriously, 2to3 should support rfc822-> email.utils
<cmaloney> http://danspitz.com/spitz-bench/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/niFr4 - Spitz Bench | Official Dan Spitz Blog and Community
<cmaloney> Downgraded my kernel for the first time in a while.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-08
<cmaloney> Evening (night
<cmaloney> )
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Morning
<jrwren> indeed it is.
<jrwren> rainy morning
<cmaloney> Yeah, it is.
<cmaloney> Getting ready to do the whole grocery shopping hting.
<cmaloney> aka: the start of another week. :)
<jrwren> if detroit had amazon groceries, whatever it is called, would you use it?
<cmaloney> jrwren: JoDee would be all over that in a heartbeat.
<cmaloney> She absolutely hates grocery shopping
<cmaloney> I don't mind it
<cmaloney> save for when people block the aisles and make it difficult to get around.
<jrwren> imma get in and get out kinda gy.
<jrwren> and.. its WAY easier when you don't have to go down isles.
<jrwren> eating only vegetables and fruit makes that pretty easy.
<jrwren> just have to go down teh dry good isle, ignore everything else.
<jrwren> and dry goods last a long time, so dont' have to even go there very often.
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<jrwren> evening
<gamerchick02> howdy
<cmaloney> Evening as well
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-01
<derekv> I'm really not falling in love with ansible
<derekv> it's been very frustrating to work with
<cmaloney> Its pretty particular on how you organize things.
<derekv> it feels like i'm trying to deploy a cluster by holding my hands over my eyes, and copy-pasting shell scripts I randomly find on the internet together and hoping it runs
<derekv> which I think is pretty close to how this works
<derekv> I have yet to have a singe thing just work without a fight after the first "ping" command
<derekv> my favorite feature right now is how if a command never exits, you also never get to see it's output
<derekv> e.g. if a command unexpectedly asks for user input, you'll never know why.  it just hangs.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that can be a pain in the ass
<cmaloney> but it's not quite that bad.
<cmaloney> I've been able to deploy things wouthout out too much difficulty.
<cmaloney> There's definitely a learning curve though
<derekv> i'm going to try chef next as a point of comparison
<cmaloney> Ther'es dome good books on Ansible as well
<derekv> but this blows dude.  i lost count of how many infuriating things i've had to figure out.
<jrwren> derekv: ^5, we can start an ansible apathy club.
<jrwren> tagline: ansible: I don't see what the fuss is about.
<cscheib> derekv: feel free to drop into the Puppet user group I run some time if you wanna learn about Puppet... search Detroit Puppet User Group on meetup.com for our meeting announcements and such
<derekv> i'm about to start a "big shell script" user group
<derekv> =P
<derekv> i'm sour right now.
<jrwren> big shell scripts are the best.
<jrwren> its really sad what hoops people will jump through to avoid big bash.
<cscheib> eh, shell scripts are ok for smaller tasks
<jrwren> I'll write everything in shell
<jrwren> fork multiple ones, have the talking ot each other.
<jrwren> bash4 has a hash type.
<cscheib> derekv: https://github.com/brandonhilkert/fucking_shell_scripts
<jrwren> that said, I did find fabric rather useful
<jrwren> hahaha, nice.
<jrwren> the best config management tool is not using a config mgmt tool.
<jrwren> manage system images like cattle, not pets.
<cscheib> yes, most config management tools allow you to do just that, if you set things up properly
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> why set anyting up?
<jrwren> just do it.
<jrwren> don't need config
<cscheib> cuz some people live in the real world
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> the world changes.
<cmaloney> Hey now,  Ansible is pretty cool
<cmaloney> I'm really enjoying how it works.
<cmaloney> I don't thnink you can appreciate how it works if you just try to copy / paste playbooks from the net.
<cmaloney> THat's not going to get you anywhere.
<cmaloney> You need to understand what it's trying to do and how it does that effectively.
<cscheib> indeed
<cmaloney> Otherwise no config management is going to work
<cscheib> you definitely need to know your shit, it's not a shortcut to knowing a software stack
<cmaloney> Nope
<cmaloney> None of them are.
<cmaloney> They'll just bury your non-knowledge into a shaky foundation
<jrwren> nothing is
<derekv> i feel like i get it
<derekv> it's trying to do thing "idempotently".  however I see that as a pipe dream.
<derekv> no way your going to manage machines with shell script in a way that is really idempotent
<derekv> but what killed it for me was how difficult it was making it to debug what was happening
<derekv> chef or puppet might be worse for all I know
<derekv> I want to build system images in a deterministic way by running scripts on top of snapshots, and then deploy these with the a minimum configuration difference between instances (ports, hostnames, keys)
<derekv> if I'm never going to modify a running instance, then it wouldn't matter how I ran those scripts
<derekv> problem is, not really sure how to do that with data
<derekv> stupid data, making everything complicated.
<mrgoodcat> so apparently you can now get facebook to pgp encrypt emails they send you https://www.facebook.com/notes/protecting-the-graph/securing-email-communications-from-facebook/1611941762379302
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> happy free speech day :)
<mrgoodcat> for at least today the NSA is no longer allowed to collect your data en masse
<cmaloney> For now
<mrgoodcat> for now
<mrgoodcat> and the cynic in me tells me there are probably workarounds they are trying to use
<cmaloney> If those workarounds include getting an actual warrant from an actual judge then I'm OK with it.
<wolfger> raise your hand if you think anything actually changed other than the legality of what they are doing.
<_stink_> *crickets*
<cmaloney> heh
<phwelo> gm folks
<cmaloney> Good morning
<greg-g> "Tough anti-smoking measures have gone into effect in the Chinese capital, where smoking is now banned in restaurants, offices and on public transport." that's not what I would consider "tough"
<greg-g> http://www.sky105.com/2015/06/beijing-bans-smoking-in-public-starting_1.html
<cscheib> derekv: I dunno, that sounds exactly like the problem config mgmt is designed to solve.  Are you sure no one's going to modify a running instance once it's up?  Are your systems truly throwaway?  What happens if DNS changes, etc... Also, keep in mind there're things like rspec-puppet that make it fairly simple to unit test your script/code
<cscheib> derekv: (I tend to mention puppet specific things, as that's what I'm familiar with in etail)
<cscheib> *detail
<derekv> cscheib: I have a lot to learn.  it's greenfield, so I can learn in stages
<cmaloney> I'm playing with Ansible roles righ tnow
<cmaloney> they're pretty interesting in how they work
<phwelo> cmaloney: are you looking at Ansible for servers or networking equipment?  I thought the possibilities to automate networking tasks were pretty cool there
<cmaloney> phwelo: Servers mostly.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-02
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> wb rick_h_
<cmaloney> and gopd morning
<wolfger> a GOP'd morning? I'm sorry.
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> cmaloney: This makes me think of you  http://invisiblebread.com/2015/06/air-drums/
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Depends on the music
<cmaloney> but yeah, some of them really kick my ass
<cmaloney> speaking of which
<cmaloney> I'm going to resign our game and start a new one.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> hm, maybe not
<wolfger> Hah! https://invisiblebread.com/2015/05/moms/
<wolfger> *sigh* I miss the days when I could just click an RSS link and select "Add to Google Reader" and be done.
<brousch> cmaloney: Your left and right sides have problems, but better to play them out or you won't learn from it
<cmaloney> brousch: I know.
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> ty cmaloney
<cmaloney> I can  tell rick_h_ is back in the area; his flickr-feed is active. ;)
 * cmaloney has it on RSS.
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> hah it's going to get pounded
<rick_h_> yea, no bandwidth means lots of pics to upload in a short time. Time to put that upload bandwidth to use
<jrwren> you didn't bring a mifi? or did you not have coverage?
<rick_h_> I did, but I've got over 4k images I'm cutting down to around 1k I think
<jrwren> oh!!!
<jrwren> holy wow!
<rick_h_> I left dropbox on accidently and had to up to 20GB plan
<rick_h_> because we blew our 10GB plan overnight early in the week
<jrwren> good lord, I don't shoot that much in a year, or maybe 5 yrs.
<rick_h_> well, lots of good stuff on this trip
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/
<rick_h_> phew, down to just one day not gone through, of course it's the biggest day with 1800 images
<rick_h_> the wild horse santuary was wet...but awesome for pics
<greg-g> rick_h_: did you go to crazy horse, too? :)
<rick_h_> as is the badlands
<rick_h_> greg-g: definitely
<greg-g> insane eh?
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/18184546858/in/datetaken-public/
<rick_h_> greg-g: the ambition is, I couldn't help but be a bit disapointed to be honest
<greg-g> oh wow, nice zoom
<rick_h_> it comes across a bit as a 'yea?! we can do one even bigger' and a bit small
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, it's kinda sad, but totally what the guy made happen
<rick_h_> oh yea, the fact that for 50 years it was basically one guy
<rick_h_> and such is impressive, but after seeing how the original vision of mount rushmore was cut/simplified I hope they can do it
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> maybe in my son's lifetime they'll see more progress and it'll blow away
<cmaloney> heh
<phwelo> taking my 'valuing diversity' course.  shouldn't living in ferndale prequalify me?
<cmaloney> nope\
<phwelo> bah
<jrwren> definitely not
<jrwren> ferndale is a monoculture
<phwelo> yeah i suppose income diversity isn't as huge in ferndale
<jrwren> the MP I did on Friday night was accepted \m/  add-apt-repository is going to be *way faster* in the next ubuntu release  https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/software-properties/support-update/+merge/260642
<phwelo> wow that's pretty cool
<jrwren> phwelo: i'm rather happy about it, since I like speed and I dislike waiting for apt-get update to run after adding a ppa :)
<phwelo> now i'm likely to remember that it exists when i add one as well ;)
<phwelo> jrwren: looks like you went from windows to linux based on your blog. any tips?
<jrwren> phwelo: I use everything. I went from windows to linux in 1995. Then back to Windows in 2004/5, all the while still using linux of course. :)
<jrwren> tips?  hrm... Be excellent to one anther.
<phwelo> :\
<jrwren> "Always have faith in yourself" -- Elle Woods
<phwelo> alright i'll take that one, ty <3
<cmaloney> Never eat spinach with a stranger.
<jrwren> Love Many
<jrwren> Trust Few
<jrwren> Always paddle your own Canoe
<cmaloney> Burmashave
<wolfger> +1
<jrwren> hell froze over: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/looking_forward_microsoft__support_for_secure_shell_ssh1/archive/2015/06/02/managing-looking-forward-microsoft-support-for-secure-shell-ssh.aspx
<rick_h_> jrwren: whoa
<phwelo> omg
<rick_h_> another 300 pics up wheee love this faster upload. https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/
<rick_h_> poor cmaloney's rss feed
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> It doesnt' catch them all, sadly.
<gamerchick02> not bad! a half hour to iron six shirts. :)
<gamerchick02> now... we just need a robot that will iron my shirts, preferably powered by Linux.
<cmaloney> i need one to mow my lawn for free
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> maybe i can pay it in motor oil but that's it
<gamerchick02> HAH
<cmaloney> brb
<gamerchick02> kk
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-03
<jrwren> i always hated ironing shirts
<jrwren> even though I love suiting up, I'm glad I'm a tshirt guy when I'm not suited up.
<cscheib> I wear button downs most of the time now, and it's not so bad... although, no iron shirts are a myth, you've still either gotta iron em or deal with a bit of wrinklage
<cscheib> I usually just skip ironing em.
<jrwren> i used to too. :)
<jrwren> its weird, I used to love my button ups, but then I fell into the wrong developer crowd, and I felt the need to conform to their fashion norms. I adopted t-shirts.
<cscheib> heh
<cscheib> I rarely leave the house in a t shirt
<cscheib> polo, if anything
<cmaloney> I wear polos at work and T-shirts the rest of the time
<rick_h_> button ups ftw
<rick_h_> I've gone the t-shirt -> button up route
<cmaloney> And in the winter I wear sweaters with t-shirts underneath
<cmaloney> Frankly I couldn't care less what people think of what I wear.
<gamerchick02> i feel better at work when i've ironed my shirts
<cmaloney> Just as long as it's not completely off-base.
<cmaloney> and somewhat matches. :)
<gamerchick02> sorry i was working on my pathfinder character
<gamerchick02> yay for matching!
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Playing PF locally?
<gamerchick02> at work actually
<gamerchick02> we have a game going on thursdays at lunch
<cmaloney> Ah, neat.
<gamerchick02> yes! i'm a Kitsune in this game
<gamerchick02>  Hunter. with a badger as a pet
<cmaloney> Wonder if I could get a game started at work
<cmaloney> something like Fiasco or some other one-shot.
<gamerchick02> we're doing a long-ish game but breaking it up more
<cmaloney> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4jcIDkFu9gg/VW46olSWMjI/AAAAAAAAgqU/3sZJ2sPmY10/w610-h343-no/15%2B-%2B1
<gamerchick02> bwahahahaha
<gamerchick02> that was hilarious!
<cmaloney> :-l
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> switching dice because my purple dice were being stupid last game
<gamerchick02> going green and blue for this character
<gamerchick02> i've not created a character for anything in the longest time. i spent probably from about 7 to 9 working on it tonight. oi
<rick_h_> what do you call something that you all know but aren't saying explicitly?
<rick_h_> I keep thinking assumption, but that's not really it
<jrwren> SWEET!  I just scored 2 Intel PRO-1000 card from some guy down the road
<jrwren> I <3 the internet.
<jrwren> he just posted on some group email list i'm on.
<rick_h_> jrwren: <3
<cmaloney> rick_h_: implicit knowledge
<gamerchick02> rick_h_: kind of like an observation?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: gamerchick02 no, but yea you guys get the idea. I swear there's some work out there
<rick_h_> like acknowledgement, or matter of fact, or something but my english is fail
<cmaloney> a priori knowledge
<gamerchick02> you swear there's work out there? you know you can contact my mom and she can put you to work...
<gamerchick02> :-P
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: :P word
<cmaloney> up
<gamerchick02> hee
<cmaloney> jrwren: Awesome re: the network cards.
<gamerchick02> yes!
<gamerchick02> free or cheap?
 * cmaloney is trying to find someone local that has access to some Sinclair hardware that isn't a Timex TS1000
<jrwren> free
<gamerchick02> free is best
<jrwren> i don't know if I have empty slots for it in my computer. I've already got 5 Gbit ports and a 100Mbit port :)
<cmaloney> Sadly everything I'm finding is in the UK and when you get done converting GBP into USD and add shipping it's a fucking mint
<cmaloney> jrwren: What the hell? HOw many networks are you running?
<gamerchick02> OH if anyone in here works at Chrysler and is interested in Pathfinder, i have a group i meet with on Thursdays
<jrwren> cmaloney: just one.
<gamerchick02> why do you need that many cards?
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Sadly no to both. :)
<gamerchick02> sadly. but you *could* come as a visitor and i could escort you to the room... hah!
<jrwren> at one point it was because I didn't want a switch and cables hanging everywhere, so everything went to the 1 server, which switched for me.
<gamerchick02> that's actually kind of brilliant
<jrwren> now I think I may bond some channels between some systems.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That would require me to be interested in Pathfinder. I'd rather play other games. :)
<gamerchick02> ah! well, i've not played an RPG in forever so i kind of jumped at this one.
<gamerchick02> would have done a White Wolf campaign too
<cmaloney> I want to find a 13th age campaign without having to start one
<cmaloney> sadly that's a little trickier
<gamerchick02> i almost wish we were still doing the long-running Rifts game i was in while i was in college
<gamerchick02> ah college
<cmaloney> Hah, Rifts
<gamerchick02> that was AWESOME
<cmaloney> where the setting is importat and the system doesn't matter.
<gamerchick02> i was a techno-wizard who rode a motorcycle and could fix ANYTHING
<gamerchick02> i was like an engineer who had magic, and honestly, i'm half that right now. i wish i was magic.
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> i've played Shadowrun (that character was a hacker), Lo5R (samauri!), RuneQuest (i was a duck), D&D (multiple characters), WW mage and vampire one-shots...
<cmaloney> Yay Runequest!
<gamerchick02> i was a DUCK!!
<gamerchick02> i had armor and everything!!
<cmaloney> I've come to appreciate the RuneQuest system
<cmaloney> Glorantha makes me want to hurt people though
<cmaloney> RuneQuest 6 and OpenQuest are pretty sweet
<gamerchick02> and the puns would go really well: "hey, put the party's drinks on my bill." (get it... MY BILL?!?! haw haw haw!!)
<gamerchick02> it was only a one-shot game
<cmaloney> Still, <3 RuneQuest
<cmaloney> Also <3: Fate Core, Dungeon World / Apocalypse World, D6, GURPS, GUMSHOE, and FUDGE
<cmaloney> and Eclipse Phase.
<gamerchick02> GURPS!!
<gamerchick02> yay!
<gamerchick02> i'd like to do more GURPS
<cmaloney> Same
<gamerchick02> we did a big eyes small mouth one-shot too
<cmaloney> also <3 talislanta
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Mostly because they released it CC-BY-NC-ND
<gamerchick02> yes
<cmaloney> http://talislanta.com/
<gamerchick02> thank you
<gamerchick02> we also did a D6 one shot
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> D6 is pretty sweet
<cmaloney> http://www.breachworld.com/
<cmaloney> This has been called Rifts for D6
<gamerchick02> oooo
<gamerchick02> like i need MORE games to play. :-P
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> i'll stick with pathfinder right now
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> morn
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> CHC Tonight. :)
 * _stink_ shrinks into the shadows
<cmaloney> _stink_: You get a pass for another 4 years.
<cmaloney> Make the best of it.
<cmaloney> ;)
<_stink_> i... will try.
<mrgoodcat> i feel bad about CHC
<mrgoodcat> I would say i've been busy but that just feels like a bad excuse
<mrgoodcat> i live an hour away from CHC now though
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Has life settled down any?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I used to live an hor away from CHC
<cmaloney> it's do-able. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_ lives an hour away.
<cmaloney> Also: did you move recently?
<wolfger> I just don't even code anymore :-(  Not that I ever really did. Not like everybody else.
<wolfger> but if you start up Beer House Brewers meetings, call me! :-D
<cmaloney> You can still come to the coders meeting
<wolfger> I used to dodge it because I felt like an imposter. Now I know I'm an imposter. I can't even remember how to write Perl without hitting google.
<wolfger> My current career ambition is to milk my IT job until I can afford to open a brewery.
<wolfger> or until I find wealthy investors that will enable my dream
<brousch> You will miss the brewery bubble if you wait much longer
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: life is settled-ish
<mrgoodcat> i moved in with $gf
<mrgoodcat> mom is stable again
<mrgoodcat> parents divorced though
<mrgoodcat> so better but not ideal i guess
<jrwren> wolfger: you don't code AT ALL!?!?!
<wolfger> I coded some VBA about... 4 months ago?
<wolfger> brousch: I've been hearing about the brewery bubble for years. And every year Michigan breweries increase sales and production. The bubble is a myth.
<jrwren> i can't live without coding. I get some idea for how something could be better, adn I go do it. Especially little things, becuase they sound little, and so I feel the MUST be done.
<wolfger> people will never stop drinking beer
<jrwren> the bubble is in big beer, and it lasted for 50yrs. Its bursting.
<wolfger> I'm still a few years out from being able to make a serious go at it, sadly. In the meantime, I practice the craft and study the business.
<wolfger> The hard part of running a successful brewery will not be "making good beer".
<brousch> Where will you open it?
<rick_h_> wolfger: don't feel bad. I don't code any more and actually spent the weekend thinking of how to shut down bookie.io.
<wolfger> :-o
<brousch> wat?!
<wolfger> brousch: there's currently no breweries near where I live. That meshes nicely with my desire to have a job where I ride my bicycle to work. :-)
<rick_h_> I've not done a bookie commit in some 6mo? and it's costing me $200/mo
<rick_h_> it's into unmanged territory and I don't have time for it.
<brousch> Gratipay is changed now, so that $0.25/wk I donated won't get to you
<rick_h_> yea, I killed my account there
<rick_h_> brousch: so that was you! :)
<rick_h_> ty for that. I used it to donate to others that did software I used like the pyramid folks and mike bayer
<brousch> To kill bookie, all you have to do is insert annoying ads and inject malware downloads
<rick_h_> heh, I don't think it's all that alive as it is
<wolfger> lol
<rick_h_> but yea, expect to see an email shortly with a 'here's your export options, run your own, etc'
<brousch> So you've become so manager that you no longer code?
<rick_h_> pretty much, and no time for coding in my spare time with other things going on
<rick_h_> and spending the $$ a month to run it is jsut something I should cut from my expenses
<brousch> Yeah, that's a big expense
<brousch> Could maybe be justified when it was a hobby
<rick_h_> I mean for what I pay for bookie it'd pay all my cell phone, mifi, and streaming services
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> I used to justify it as if I went golfing I'd spend as much
<wolfger> Yeah...
<rick_h_> but I don't spend time on it so it's just sinking $$ to keep folks happy with performance
<wolfger> so... taking up golf?
<brousch> I like golf
<rick_h_> no, but fishing, getting a kayak, and with the camping/photography/woodworking more than enough stuff to spend my time on
<wolfger> I still haven't played a second game of golf, but I will some day. I've been hitting driving ranges just working on not sucking
<rick_h_> hah good luck at that
<rick_h_> when I play gold I just equate it with sucking
<wolfger> my definition of "not sucking" is probably a lot more generous than other people's, too. ;-)
<brousch> It's OK if you suck. Just play at cheap courses with other friends who suck
<jrwren> i decided i hate golf. I gave it a go.
<rick_h_> it's a good way to get outdoors a bit
<phwelo> jrwren: i have to go with my father all of the time.  it's awful
<rick_h_> I do more fishing/camping but golf serves a purpose
<jrwren> i get outdoors to cut my grass.
<rick_h_> lol
<phwelo> BUT if you get really drunk first and take a cart it's easier to just give up and ride around
<rick_h_> not sure that counts
<brousch> jrwren: I have some outdoors work for you if you have 45 minutes
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/18397073015/in/datetaken/ (outdoors)
<jrwren> brousch: if you mean cutting your grass. I'd consider it, but the drive is so far.
<wolfger> I have seen that some courses now use these snowboard-ish single person carts. I think that's nifty.
<wolfger> a bit more exercise than normal carts, but less than walking.
<jrwren> no wheels?
<rick_h_> walking golf ftw
<rick_h_> but courses aren't liking as much because you play slower
<rick_h_> :(
<jrwren> disc golf i might like?
<brousch> It's not really more exciting than golf, just cheaper
<wolfger> jrwren: ok, more like a skateboard than a snowboard I guess. :-p
<wolfger> pedant
<wolfger> disc golf is awesome!
<wolfger> although losing one in the water is considerably worse than losing a ball in the water
<jrwren> wolfger: i was honestly asking, because I'd be surprised if golf courses would like something sliding across their greens.
<wolfger> https://youtu.be/B9VuKK5sbQo
<rick_h_> lol golf segway
<jrwren> bwahahaha
<wolfger> I mean, that looks so much more fun than the actual game!
<rick_h_> wolfger: turns golf into polo
<wolfger> rofl
<wolfger> a new meaning for "golf scramble"
<wolfger> no waiting for other people to take their shots. Everybody tee off at once and first one in the hole wins.
<wolfger> helmet required
<cmaloney> rick_h_: LMK if I can help in any way with Bookie.
<cmaloney> I've been slacking in my contributions.
<cmaloney> I'd hate to see the project wither but I can completely understand the reasoning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, just life moved on here
<rick_h_> cmaloney: won't be out at CHC tonight heads up
<rick_h_> but nothing on MUG night for the first time in a while :)
<cmaloney> Understandable.
<rick_h_> so maybe make that
<cmaloney> Woo woo!
<cmaloney> Last week's CHC was... interesting
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> how so?
<cmaloney> Apparently there was a fashion show scheduled from 5ish to 8:30pm
<cmaloney> some charity thing
<cmaloney> so the place was packed.
<cmaloney> Ended up being James and I meeting at my house.
<cmaloney> But yeah, I was rather confused at the number of people in the coffeeshop.
<_stink_> maybe there were all there for CHC
<cmaloney> riiiiight
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Dammit
<cmaloney> I'm resigning
<brousch> I told you you had problems on the left and right!
<cmaloney> Yeah, well I have a complete blind-spot to those edges. :(
<brousch> They seem safe, but can be big problems
<brousch> cmaloney: Your resignation bumped me up to 24k
<cmaloney> Yay
<cmaloney> Pretty sure I'm going to be at 50kyu soon. ;)
<mrgoodcat> rolling comcast outages in your area
<mrgoodcat> pretty much the worst day
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/7Lebs5ykgf2
<cmaloney> Here's some emergency cat photos
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> <3 cats
<mrgoodcat> lunch time
<ColonelPanic001> <3 cats
<_stink_> ..
<rick_h_> I wish cats would die
<rick_h_> especially after about...8 years
<_stink_> haha
<ColonelPanic001> ...
<cmaloney> rick_h_: now now
<cmaloney> Just because my cat is a spoiled brat doesn't mean you can't love her. :)
<jrwren> i say that about my daughter every day.
<phwelo> hm, got an interview at Ford.  anyone know anyone in IT over there?
<greg-g> jrwren: hah
<jrwren> phwelo: i'm so soarry :)
<phwelo> i mean i already have a good stable job. the raise would be helpful but not OMFGMYLIFEROCKS helpful
<wolfger> phwelo: I'm not sure, actually. Many of my coworkers are working on Ford projects, but they aren't Ford. I know some others, but they may or may not be Ford either. :-p
<wolfger> when I was there briefly, I was in, essentially, "the outsource department". Everybody around me was non-Ford.
<phwelo> wolfger: This would be "contract to hire" with a year contract
<wolfger> hard to give up stable for that....
<cscheib> phwelo: I"m sure I know someone over there
<cscheib> what in IT would you be doing?
<jrwren> phwelo: if it isn't a 50+% raise, its not worth going to the terrible, terrible place that is Ford. At least not for me, it isn't.
<jrwren> come to think of it, I'd not do it for 50% more I'd need at least 100% more.
<phwelo> here's the description if anyone's interested: http://pastebin.com/49745Tu7
<cscheib> I haven't heard much great about Ford recently either
<cscheib> Chrysler's (IBM) OK if you don't have to deal with upper management (Senior Managers/Directors/CxO)
<phwelo> well i'm really interested in ditching the windows and SMB world and getting into a tech company, but have found it really hard to get myself the experience I need.  I'm kind of wondering if I can't use ford to learn more (while earning a decent salary) and then move to a company i'll like
<cscheib> phwelo: ah, I got the recruiter from TekSystems wanting me to spam that to my Puppet group
<cscheib> HPC stuff may actually be interesting
<cscheib> and doing config management is pretty neat.
<cscheib> phwelo: I may be able to get the pay range on that so you know what to ask for
<phwelo> it's the space i want to be in, just not sure if i need to go as far as to work for a huge corporation to get that experience.
<wolfger> all I know about Ford is, a bunch of Chrysler people jumped ship to go there. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement though.
<phwelo> also, i drive a chevy, do i auto-lose?
<cscheib> wolfger: how long ago?  that could have been force-jump due to CSC leaving and IBM coming n
<jrwren> phwelo: oh that is sweet, ford's HPC group seemed pretty awesome.
<cscheib> phwelo: don't expect preferred parking
<wolfger> Ford seems much less anal about what their people drive than Chrysler is. At least, at the tech center in Dearborn
<wolfger> csc ain't left yet
<phwelo> yeah my wife was with porsche for a little bit and she said her parking situation sucked pretty bad
<wolfger> These were all very-voluntary changes in the past 2 years
<cscheib> oh? I know a lot of the CSC folk are gone, at least in infrastructure
<cscheib> 2 years is around the time Chrysler started letting CSC know they were out :P
<jrwren> she drove a porsche or she worked for htem?
<wolfger> I work in systems. No changes in personnel there yet. Still a CSC show
<wolfger> will probably be the last to go, since IBM won't have any experienced people in our in-house systems
<phwelo> jrwren: worked, but they got to drive them as part of training.  it actually seriously changed her attitude toward cars & driving
<wolfger> s/our/their/  I have to remember I'm not them anymore :-)
<jrwren> phwelo: a porsche will do that :)
<cmaloney> I worked at ford until 2003
<phwelo> i've yet to drive one, but i already enjoy a quick car
<phwelo> plan on owning one some day :|
<cscheib> wolfger: ah.  I used to manage the storage/backup group for CSC, and I'm pretty sure that's officially hit EMC via IBM.  Haven't probed too much past that yet
<cmaloney> Depending on the hiring mood you are unlikely to be hired.
<cmaloney> I and myself were long-term contract help
<cscheib> wolfger: /win 2
<cscheib> errr
<cscheib> oops.
<phwelo> oh you mean off of the contract cmaloney ?
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> So don't hold your breath on being hired in a year
<cmaloney> (that may be different now but I doubt it)
<phwelo> as long as salary and benefits i'm good
<cmaloney> Also understand that Ford is $BIGCOMPANY
<cmaloney> and they have varying levels of IT
<cmaloney> and varying levels of folks in said IT departments
<cmaloney> some are sharp as a tack
<cmaloney> fucking brilliant
<phwelo> yeah, oh yeah i understand that well
<cmaloney> some are taking up space
<cmaloney> depending on the department you may never see anyone who is brilliant
<phwelo> i worked verizon from 1st level internal help to 2nd(3rd) level external help
<cmaloney> just good at making their stuff work
<cmaloney> (or good at bullshitting)
<phwelo> hm, got a new job description that includes "evangelizing large-scale compute blah blah blah" that could be fun
<mrgoodcat> it says 'evangelizing' in your job description?
<cmaloney> Oh, it sounds like you'll be working in their cloud stuff
<cmaloney> I think Gib is in there as well
<phwelo> don't hate on my speeling
<mrgoodcat> i wasn't hating on your spelling
<mrgoodcat> i was referring to the fact that to evangelize is to convert someone to christianity
<phwelo> they use it in tech all the time nowadays.  microsoft needs a lot of them
<mrgoodcat> a lot of christians?
<phwelo> no a lot of 'technology evangelists'
<phwelo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think your point is a little subtle here. :)
<cmaloney> but yes, that word got co-opted by the tech community even though it technically refers to spreading the Christian Gospel.
<cmaloney> evangel being the root, which means Gospel.
<phwelo> co-opted, good description
<cmaloney> or the four gospels of Christianity.
<cmaloney> bringing good news
<_stink_> hey someone wth that job knocked on my door earlier today and gave me a piece of paper inviting me to some meeting
<phwelo> webster has 3 defs of it
 * cmaloney is using dict from the command line
<cmaloney> _stink_: Do you have a moment to talk about our savior The Cloud?
 * phwelo apt-get install dict
<_stink_> no-sorry-i'm-busy-the-food-is-burning-someone-just-fell-down-the-stairs-goodbye *slam door*
<cmaloney> But lo, I am sent by he who's nodes I am not worthy to provision
<phwelo> if they're religious i've never had issues getting rid of them with a quick "i'm an avid atheist"
<cmaloney> I just say I'm in market research
<phwelo> unfortunately using similar logic on salespeople ("I'm broke") never works, huh
<cmaloney> Broke just means you haven't heard about their financing options
<_stink_> i have zero trouble with religious people... it's the fucking clean water action assholes
<_stink_> that really piss me off
<phwelo> i worked for them for a day!
<phwelo> it was really weird and creeped me out so i quit
<cmaloney> _stink_: I must be far enough north and east to not have dealt with them
<_stink_> the save the children woman is very nice but i have resisted her charms
<cmaloney> otherwise I'd throw a bottled water at them
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> and chase them with the hose
<cmaloney> because irony.
<_stink_> phwelo: i got into it with one of their people one year.  oh you're paid?  oh it's not a 501c3?  fuck off
<cmaloney> Was this Charity Water?
<phwelo> at the time i worked there their pay was more than reasonable and something along the lines of 95% of their revenue went to salary
<_stink_> cmaloney: cleanwateraction.org
<phwelo> so yeah, not gonna donate to you
<cmaloney> yeah, fuck that shit.
<_stink_> tchnically they are the type of non profit that can engage policitally
<_stink_> politically
<_stink_> whichever kind that is, i can't remember
<phwelo> i believe that's all that they do, collect money from people door-to-door to pay their employees and then lobbyists
<_stink_> im' glad my angry knee jerk wasn't too far off.
<jrwren> a PAC?
<jrwren> ugh.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-04
<cmaloney> Evening
<cscheib> nice evening to finally fire up the grill
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's gorgeous out
<cscheib> made wings on the grill, pulled pork in the dutch oven... yay for efficient usage of time
<cscheib> bonus: girlfriend actually helped clean significantly this time
<wolfger> +1
<brousch> rick_h_: Yesterday you mentioned woodworking and kayaking. This was a project someone did at my old makerspace https://goo.gl/photos/yJV2Fo1MXMzVogTF7
<brousch> Hand-made wood sea kayak
<rick_h_>  brousch yea, those are so cool
<brousch> It was hard to get pictures of, but was really nice
<brousch> Hm, and I like Google Photos better than google+ photos already. I can get a shareable link without having to actually share it on Google+
<rick_h_> yea, they fixed the whole "thou shalt use G+ or nothing!" in it
<brousch> Oh man, I just realized I never went through our Vegas/Grand Canyon photos. Some nice panos in there
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> Only 376 photos
<brousch> Moar kayak, and beer! http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2015/06/paddle_for_pints_traverse_city.html
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> I wonder if there's a winery version of that
<cmaloney> Good morning part 2. :)
<brousch> Second morning?
<cmaloney> yeah, I rebooted my machine
<rick_h_> hobbit work day
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://windowsserver.uservoice.com/forums/295047-general-feedback/suggestions/7996191-change-the-installation-option-for-windows-server
<cmaloney> What happens when Microsoft takes away a GUI option in the server.
<cmaloney> I'm getting the itch again for making a static site and using Pelican
<greg-g> "Not everyone can code, use PS, use cmd line. The older generation grew up with code so they tent to use it more, the new generation who are taking over sys admin roles like GUI because it just works, its 100 times quicker than faffing about writing PS scripts and then theirs the whole desktop Start menu debacle."
<cmaloney> greg-g: I about fell off my chair when I read that.
<jrwren> greg-g: who said that? I want to blacklist them.
<cmaloney> jrwren: See the windows server link above
<jrwren> what an idiot
 * rick_h_ just pretends he never saw it
<jrwren> at least the next 2 comments are "NO DONT!"
<cmaloney> I tent to use the cmd line.
<jrwren> cmaloney: lol
<jrwren> i login and flag as inappropriate
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> good call
<rick_h_> "you're clearly too dumb to participate in this discussion"
<cmaloney> jrwren: nice
<cmaloney> Now now rick_h_, this is a self-selecting herd.
<cmaloney> They're the ones that take Windows Server seriously.
<cmaloney> (tongue firmly in cheek. Windows Server has its place)
<jrwren> its place in the garbage. am I right? :)
<cmaloney> Well, when interoperating with Microsoft's ecosystem there's nothing better
<cmaloney> though I prefer not participating in that ecosystem.
<wolfger> greg-g: GUI "just works"?
<wolfger> jrwren: ++
<wolfger> silly admin, Windows are for games
<jrwren> zomg, starcraft2!
<greg-g> I thought fallout 4 was all the rage right now?
<greg-g> pre-rage, I guess?
<_stink_> that's my normal emotional state: pre-rage
<greg-g> _stink_: there's a zen koan somewhere in that
<cmaloney> pretty sure there's nothing zen about rage.
<cmaloney> or if there is then I'm a zen master
<_stink_> hah
<wolfger> zen rage. Isn't that what we call passive-aggressive?
<cmaloney> No, that's just being a dick
<greg-g> poor bookie
<cmaloney> Not poor Bookie
<cmaloney> Bookie will live on.
<cmaloney> It's hitting phase 2
<cmaloney> which should be more sustainable. :)
<greg-g> oh?
<greg-g> that wasn't indicated in that "we're closing" email :)
 * greg-g isn't in #bookie anymore
<cmaloney> bookie.io is closing
<cmaloney> the Bookie project is still alive
<cmaloney> So the service is going away. The software continues.
 * cmaloney isn't going to let the software get a break.
<cmaloney> *whipcrack*
<greg-g> that's what Evan P told me re identi.ca
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> ANd it's still going
<cmaloney> although slowly.
<cmaloney> problem with identi.ca is they took away all of the clients when they migrated
<cmaloney> statusnet had Twitter compatibility
<cmaloney> so it was pretty easy to create new clients for it.
<cmaloney> pump.io isn't as easy
<cmaloney> so it doesn't have the drop-in replacement
<cmaloney> I think pump.io is great, but it's never going to mature
<cmaloney> partially because the interface isn't there to support it and it's exceptionally complicated to follow anyone
<cmaloney> identi.ca (Statusnet) had the advantage of being a reasonable walled-garden
<cmaloney> Most folks you wanted to follow were already on identi.ca (or were at one point)
<cmaloney> Pump.io doesn't have the discoverability.
<cmaloney> What makes Bookie different is Bookie doesn't rely on third-parties for communication. It can be personal
<cmaloney> I have a feeling it'll be part of OwnCloud at some point (if it isn't already)
<cmaloney> Bah, they have their own
<greg-g> my god it's nice outside
<greg-g> there are nice things about working SF. The bay is nice. Walking to the bay is smelly and crowded, but, when you get there it's beautiful
<_stink_> who replaced greg-g
<jrwren> i could say teh same things, just replace bay with river :p
<greg-g> _stink_: the sunshine :)
<_stink_> heh
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/comments/38gfr4/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^^
<jrwren> wow, quite a few breweries in that list whose product I've not drank
<brousch> There is a lot of wine and beer in the Traverse area that I have not imbibed
<jrwren> NEW LIFE GOAL!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :) http://www.rei.com/product/882595/wilderness-systems-tarpon-120-angler-kayak should be to the store for pick up between now and Tues :)
<rick_h_> you can come on up and sit on the back if you want. drink your beer with your feet in the water with fish nibbling your toes
<cmaloney> rick_h_: First course of business: win the lottery.
<cmaloney> second course of business: buy all the bug spray
<cmaloney> Oh, this is the one you bought?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea
<cmaloney> Why does it look like something that should be on a blue board with little pegs on it?
<rick_h_> going up to my aunt/uncle's place on houghten lake next weekend so want it for that
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> hard to sink
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Flint or Dusk?
<rick_h_> dusk
<rick_h_> want to be visible
<rick_h_> so loud orange it is
<cmaloney> Yeah, it doesn't look that bad in dusk
<rick_h_> will take it on some lakes around here with there are real boaters
<cmaloney> I'm usually more of a grey on black sort of guy but dusk looks nice.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's what the loud life-jacket is for
<rick_h_> yea, I worry about visibility to the big motor boards
<cscheib> anyone know east-siders (Grosse Pointe) that do basement leak repair and/or mold removal?
<cmaloney> cscheib: I hope you're asking for a friend
<cscheib> heh, nope
<cscheib> I got a no-look quote of $3500 for leak repair
<cscheib> the leak's not so bad, as long as the downspouts are drained far enough away
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cscheib> working on tear-down myself
<cmaloney> we  have some leaks in our basement as well
<cscheib> and at least addressing the surface mold
<cmaloney> though I think we're going to try patching them ourselves
<cmaloney> the mold is another matter entirely.
<cscheib> indeed
<cscheib> I doubt I have the kind of money for them to do the whole spiel
<cscheib> so I'm taking my chances with respirator and moldstat plus
<cmaloney> Good luck
<cmaloney> That shit is nasty.
<cscheib> as long as I can get things in a sellable state, I'll be happy.  Probably about time for me to get a home warranty again, as it's darn near time for my furnace to die, and I'd rather not shoulder that expense
<jrwren> have you identified the leaks?
<jrwren> rod holes are easy to repair yourself.
<cscheib> jrwren: looks like crack along the seams in the block
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ no more bookie? sorry to hear that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-05
<jrwren> cscheib: YUK!
<jrwren> so... I have really fast home internet to the point that I never saw much point in apt-cacher-ng.
<jrwren> for downloads, I'm still mostly right.
<jrwren> the thing which has surprised me is the latency.
<jrwren> apt-get update is lightning fast because round trip times are so fast.
<jrwren> This is really nice.
<gamerchick02> apt-get-update is always pretty quick for me. i dunno
<gamerchick02> so you can update your computer faster? that's awesome though
<jrwren> gamerchick02: 3.7 seconds?
<gamerchick02> :) very nice.
<gamerchick02> no i don't have 3.7 seconds of updating. it's much longer but still... quick? i dunno, i was on dialup the longest time
<gamerchick02> i am not now
<gamerchick02> thank ye gods
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<gamerchick02> pathfinder at lunch was awesome today. the rest of my day was not as awesome. but my lunch (gyro) and pathfinder were good.
<cmaloney> nice!
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Gyros are awesome regardless
<gamerchick02> ok i'm watching PBS (DTV) and the lady on here shilling the pledges looks scary
<gamerchick02> gyros... give all of them to me....
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> if you like gyros, come up to Saginaw June 21st. the Greek Festival is going on
<cmaloney> I'm a fan
<gamerchick02> traditional Greek food, Greek dancing, Greek music, beer (not Greek and not very good), uzo, demos of cooking, and tours of the Greek church. it's fun!
<gamerchick02> it's a fun time and i like going but it's really close to Supreme and i'd like a break after
<gamerchick02> hah
<phwelo>  
<phwelo> gdb /usr/bin/weechat /home/xxx/core
<phwelo>  
<phwelo>  
<jrwren> wee!
<phwelo> sorry
<phwelo> just found my weechat gist :)
<phwelo> you'd think everyone would be chatting more on friday, guess not
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> More heads down trying to finish out the week on a high note
<cmaloney> That and have been explaining ssh keys to co-worker via IM
<rick_h_> end of the week!!!
<jcastro> n0p: around?
<n0p> jcastro: sup?
<greg-g> dwag
<greg-g> dangit!
<greg-g> dawg
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that jazz
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Is that what we're calling it?
<_stink_> yes under penalty of law
<cmaloney> happy that at work they're finally realizing that not everyone has a favorite sportball team
<cmaloney> so now they're allowing us to wear favorite band
<cmaloney> pretty sure I'll be the reason they don't allow that anymore.
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> https://f1.bcbits.com/img/0002843148_10.jpg
<cmaloney> Think that's work appropriate? :)
<_stink_> \m/
<jrwren> some of my christian family might find it never appropriate.
<cmaloney> https://cyniconline.bandcamp.com/merch/re-traced-t-shirt
<cmaloney> jrwren: Mine either
 * cmaloney remembers getting a "that's offensive" from a prof at Hope College for a Megadeth shirt (The one with Vic moving skulls over an abacus ala the back cover of Countdown to Extinction)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-06
<locodir-user> hello I was hoping someone could help me with installing ubuntu
<locodir-user> I am getting an error message that says Cannot download the metalink and therefore the ISO
<wolfger> I'm confused. I haven't done an install in some time (just keep updating existing installs), but last I checked downloading the ISO comes ahead of installing. It's what you use to make the CD/DVD/USB installer, yes?
<locodir-user> yes I downloaded the iso
<wolfger> ok. So I'm not understanding what the error message means.
<locodir-user> me either I guess
<wolfger> sorry. Wish I was more helpful. Not sure how many people are actually here this time on a Friday night... probably better luck asking again in roughly 12 hours.
<locodir-user> okay thank you.
<_stink_> i think that message is for a wubi install
<_stink_> fwiw if locodir-user comes back
<_stink_> might help a google search
<wolfger> a what install?
<wolfger> nm, I can google wubi
<cmaloney> apparenlt yYahoo Pipes is shutting down as well
<wolfger> Now what's this I hear about Chrome ending support for Java?
<wolfger> They decided they no longer wanted to be a popular browser? Or do they think they have the muscle to end internet Java applets?
<wolfger> or is there some nuance to the story that the headline missed, and I was too lazy last night to rtfa? :-p
<cscheib> wolfger: http://blog.chromium.org/2014/11/the-final-countdown-for-npapi.html
<cscheib> wolfger: not Java, but NPAPI plugins in general
<cscheib> afaik
<wolfger> as I suspected, much less sky falling than was fearmongered.
<cscheib> Orajava has the option of making a non-NPAPI plugin
<cscheib> but, they probably won't
<cscheib> or you can run their crap in another browser
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> get to clean out giutters today woo hoo
<jrwren> who uses java in browsers?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-06-07
<cscheib> about 75% of enterprise management tools
<cscheib> at least, they need to know what to do with a jnlp
<jrwren> that is still a thing?!?
<jrwren> man, I love my bubble life.
<cscheib> yea
<cscheib> HP iLO still requires either Java or .NET
<cscheib> for example.
<jrwren> o_O?
<cscheib> and, most anything storage related requires Java
<jrwren> for some definition of storage :p
<jrwren> isn't iLO their BMC?
<jrwren> i dont' konw how you can require java or .net for BMC. its just insane.
<cscheib> even digitalocean's "console" tty requires java
<jrwren> WAT?
<jrwren> surely not.
<cscheib> you can SSH to the iLO as well, but it's a bit wonky
<jrwren> ah, so not required.
<cscheib> and you can't actually hit a console
<cscheib> just power up/down
<cscheib> afaik
<cscheib> ther power functions and KVM are the whole reason to use iLO
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> arbor had very nice setup for that sort of thing, but given that the devices arbor sold were managed more like routers, it was serial consoles for remote access.
<jrwren> no reasons servers can't be that way today.
<jrwren> but sadly, most folks don't see it that way.
<cscheib> yea, but most BIOSes (including option ROMs) are menu based
<cscheib> so they'd have to change that
<cscheib> even Cisco's UCS stuff, if you want a graphical interface, you get Java
<cscheib> but they have a good API to do just about everything (except KVM)
<jrwren> menu based worked great via consoled *shrug*
<cscheib> eh, I've done it, it can be really weird
<jrwren> now that you mention it, yeah, sometimes the menu system would fuck up and you'd have to reconnect.
<cscheib> I've spent a lot of time on serial consoles, they can be a bitch/awkward when something rewrites the whole screen, and/or you're not using a console server with a history buffer
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6-_48Aqso0
<shakes808> Hello everyone.   I have a question about some basic github stuff.  When trying to push up a new repo it hangs.  I am in the command line and either get nothing or a message stating it is pushing but it clearly isn't.  I even tried to create it on the github side and pull it down but no dice there either.  any help?
<cmaloney> shakes808: Not sure what might be the problem
<cmaloney> is it waiting for a prompt perhaps?
<shakes808> Hello CMaloney!  Nope.  It doesn't do anything.  I have to manually stop it and sometimes the process.
<shakes808> CMaloney, sorry, had to restart.  the process froze and wouldn't die.
<shakes808> :|
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> YOu might want to run "dmesg" and see if that gives some hints
<cmaloney> also: check to see that you haven't filled up your /var partition
<cmaloney> or root partition
<brousch> It's not trying to push a giant file, right? Like a video or binary?
<shakes808> CMaloney: Working on Windows :|  New computer
<shakes808> BRousch: Nope, small .js files
<shakes808> going through some NodeJS tuts
<shakes808> files are under 15 lines each, 5 of them. :(
<_stink_> shakes808: could it be that your hard drive is failing?
<_stink_> i like cmaloney's dmesg idea
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-06
<cmaloney> hey all
<cmaloney> Not a whole lot to cover this month
<cmaloney> but if anyone has anything they'd like to bring up please feel free
 * rick_h_ doesn't mean to go there...but this give me hope for humanity https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/739827664354193409
<rick_h_> from buzzfeed of all places :/
<jrwren> ugh.
<cmaloney> When buzzfeed won't accept your money because of principle? You have a problem./
<cmaloney> Also: cagarette ads are illegal
<cmaloney> cigarette
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> 22:35 <   rick_h_> 'hi family, back from a sprint. ummm...why isthe wall blue?'
<greg-g> 23:15 <  cmaloney> ?
<greg-g> that ^
<greg-g> https://www.instagram.com/p/BGNWhRjRh_x/
<jrwren> the cigarette analogy was pretty terrible.
<jrwren> I translate the buzzfeed thing as: we just god paid a bunch of dollars from the DNC and/or HRC campaign.
<jrwren> because this is the USA and we buy elections.
<greg-g> (for the record, we finished cleaning up that paint on the floor this morning, had to do it while Rowan was out ;) )
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I noticed.
<cmaloney> That's hilariously awful
<cmaloney> jrwren: I read it as most of our readership and investment is based in silicon valley, and if we sleep with the RNC after Trump we're going to lose our funding.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Total self-serving
<cmaloney> jrwren: But then again I don't trust Buzzfeed
<greg-g> media? self-serving? what's new?
<greg-g> seriously
<jrwren> yup. so sad.
<greg-g> corporations/people everywhere self-serving? what's new? ;)
<mrgoodcat> oh man greg-g that looks like quite a mess
<mrgoodcat> "why is the wall blue" would have been an improvement on that
<mrgoodcat> anybody got a recommendation on a laptop for running 6+ vms at a time?
<_stink_> maybe http://geekrevolutionradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/36396-best_computer_backpack.jpg ?
<gamerchick02> haha _stink_! i don't think that has good wifi though.
<gamerchick02> mrgoodcat, in all seriousness, maybe look @ dell's corporate line: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/laptops?~ck=mn
<jrwren> pro tip: don't run VMs.
<rick_h_> jrwren: ftw
<cmaloney> Yeah, unless you absolutely need 6 disparate machines I'd run containers
<cmaloney> and even then I'd put those on a desktop machine
<cmaloney> since they'll be disk-intensive and laptops are not what springs to mind for disk work
<cmaloney> (6 VMs)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-07
<mrgoodcat> ColonelPanic001: yea he can't really. the VMs have to run full operating systems. he's using this laptop for a pen-testing cert
<mrgoodcat> the problem is that he lives in hawaii and has to fly to the mainland and live in a hotel during the cert process
<mrgoodcat> so he doesn't want a desktop or even a laptop that is above 15" because of portability
<mrgoodcat> he also wants a dgpu because he wants to game while he's living in the hotel
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: You're going to want two drives
<cmaloney> and 15" computer with two drives? That sounds like a unicorn. :)
<mrgoodcat> yea i know
<mrgoodcat> i had a 17 with 2 drives and dgpu
<mrgoodcat> that thing was a monster
<jrwren> i'm sad the lightest system76 system is 3.6lb, but I want something 3 or less
<rick_h_> you don't want system76. I love those guys but the laptops aren't all that great
<cmaloney> I want to belive
<cmaloney> but we bought a Dell
<rick_h_> yea, I would love to and I keep looking at their stuff
<rick_h_> but everyone I know iwth them (and we've got a few folks in canonical with them) they don't hold up or are as solid ootb as the thinkpads/etc
<cmaloney> Well, Thinkpads are tanks
<cmaloney> even the cheapies
<cmaloney> shame Lenovo can't seem to leave well-enough alone.
<jcastro> s76 make good desktops at least
<jcastro> my X230 was perfect, it held two drives
<jcastro> but started to fall apart
<jcastro> hey X240 is a POS
<rick_h_> yea, <3 the desktop I got from them
<jrwren> i've had a system76 before. I know they are just rebadged clevos sagers and whatever else garbage laptops there are.
<_stink_> rick_h_: you still actively woodworking?
<rick_h_> _stink_: no, I still have my garage with tools but not had time to do it in some time
<jrwren> The only other linux laptop I've seen that looks good is XPS and I just cannot bring myself to buy a dell again.
<rick_h_> _stink_: hoping to get back into it after the summer camping season is done
<_stink_> rick_h_: cool.  i am thinking again about starting
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, xps I got was ok, but still ran back to thinkpads after < 1yr
<rick_h_> _stink_: cool! what kind of stuff are you thinking?
<rick_h_> _stink_: happy to talk shop any time
<cmaloney> jrwren: We got one. It's quite nice
<cmaloney> Dell upped their game
<jrwren> maybe i'll get an msft laptop and just suffer from things that don't work ;]
<cmaloney> That Surface is a nice machine
<cmaloney> MS makes great hardware when they want to
<rick_h_> jrwren: ugh, good luck if you go that route
<_stink_> rick_h_: awesome - i have a built in bench/'cubby' thing to go in the front closet as first real project... probably with some boxy storage type stuff for the garage to work out the kinks first
<rick_h_> jrwren: I need to reinstall on my surface and :/ at stuff still not working
<_stink_> rick_h_: i'd really like ot stay with unpowered tools
<rick_h_> _stink_: definitely, happy to let you test drive anything. I've got a bunch of hand stuff
<_stink_> sweet!
<cmaloney> -http://openmetalcast.com/2016/06/07/open-metalcast-episode-131-late-night-metal/
<greg-g> nevermind the media, I'm going to exercise my democratic (sic) right and go vote today
<Scary_Guy> http://us.dlink.com/business-solutions/free-10-gigabit-nic-card/ I don't know some people here might benefit from it
<Scary_Guy> I wish I had money
<cmaloney> greg-g: Stick it to the man
<greg-g> cmaloney: I wish
<jrwren> I wnat 10gigabit!!!
<jrwren> thanks Scary_Guy
<cmaloney> http://www.amys.com/products/product-detail/indian-meals/000059
<jrwren> hrm, nope, out of my price range
<jrwren> why is 10GE so $$$
<cmaloney> I never thought I'd see the day when an ethernet card needed a heat sink / fan
<jrwren> something consumer grade needs to pic it up to help drive cost down. Something like drobo.
<cmaloney> now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time
<Scary_Guy> I've seen it, but it didn't need it.  It was some "extreme gaming" marketing BS NIC
<jrwren> err... who is that drobo that isn't slow?
<Scary_Guy> drobo is slow?
<rick_h_> drobo is fail, don't go near them
<Scary_Guy> I always thought they looked neat
<Scary_Guy> good to know
<cmaloney> Drobo had a lot of issues
<rick_h_> I don't know anyone that's had one and loved it over a long period of time
<cmaloney> they went from advertising darlings to OMGWTF
<rick_h_> they've got a great honeymoon period followed by pain
<jrwren> i've never heard of them being fast.
<jrwren> Synology is drobo fast and done right.
<cmaloney> si si
<Scary_Guy> bookmarked, thanks
<jrwren> synology inspired me to get better at using LVM and ever sense, I've loved my home server disk config.
<jrwren> I don't use synology, becuase I'd rather do it myself.
<Scary_Guy> oh, this looked neat too http://ofmodemsandmen.com/index.html
<jrwren> very cool
<jcastro> synology or qnap are the best ones if you're prebuying
<_stink_> cmaloney: did you make a blank disk for saving source you wrote in merlin?
<cmaloney> I just used that demo disk
<cmaloney> thatI shared
<cmaloney> I have yet to figure out how to make a blank disk under Linapple
<_stink_> ahh got it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-08
<cmaloney> Just took weather spotter training.
<cmaloney> woo woo
<rick_h_> time to chase tornados?
<cmaloney> Hells no
<cmaloney> That's for JoDee
<rick_h_> well booooo :P
<jrwren> i just cut a ton of tree down using only a saw and an axe. Literally, a ton by my estimation, well maybe only 3/4
<rick_h_> jrwren: power of tools
<jrwren> indeed
<_stink_> cmaloney: class provided by oakland county?
<_stink_> up in pontiac or waterford or something?
<cmaloney> Waterford
<cmaloney> For the SE Michigan area
<_stink_> every year i think about taking that
<_stink_> never manage it
<cmaloney> They did it online this time around
<cmaloney> so I was eating dinner learning about weather
<cmaloney> and about how every fucking conference call starts the same
<_stink_> ah neat
<_stink_> about online
<_stink_> not the call
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h_>  not bad, now that the camper is here in the driveway I can run away from the houes cleaners inside there
<rick_h_> so pretend camping from the driveway working on work
<cmaloney> hah, nice.
<wolfger> driveway camping \o/
<wolfger> Gah. Why is  perl -e not working?
<jrwren> you forgot the -i?
<jrwren> and the -p ?
<wolfger> pie sounds good...
<wolfger> but I've never needed more than just -e before
<jrwren> i was j/k, it depends on what you are doing.
<jrwren> perl -e 'print "works for me";'
<wolfger> at this point, I'm just trying to do Hello World
<wolfger> strawberry perl on win 7 (i know, i know, off topic for here)
<wolfger> also my first time trying Strawberry instead of ActiveState fwiw
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/AnarchistDalek/status/740318130082217984?s=09
<greg-g> rick_h_: I totally use the RV in the driveway as a get-away sometimes
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-09
<jrwren> anyone good with nginx?
<jrwren> how do I use parts of a location in a url to proxy pass. in apache, I would
<jrwren>                  use a rewriterule /a/b/(.*)/(\d+)/(.*) wss://\$1:\$2/a/\$3/b [P,L]
<cmaloney> http://serverfault.com/questions/379675/nginx-reverse-proxy-url-rewrite
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^^
<cmaloney> what is wss:// ?
<cmaloney> Ah, wikipedia enlightened me
<jrwren> cmaloney: so the problem with that is the regex groups aren't used in the proxy_pass target.
<jrwren> I guess that is the real question, how to use location regex groups in a proxy_pass target?
<cmaloney> They're part of the rewrite
<cmaloney> so you pass along the rewrite via proxy_pass
<jrwren> I JUST found this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29497992/nginx-location-regex-not-working  looks like a good example.
<jrwren> THANKS!
<cmaloney> np
<jcastro> jrwren: what are you working on?
<jcastro> I just set up an nginx transparent proxy
<jcastro> but I am devops so I just used a third party docker container blob without checking it.
<jrwren> jcastro: well, nothing now, becuase I realize the host i was going to do this with is trusty not xenial, so no http2, but I was going to follow up on seeing how running on http2 helps jujucharms.com
 * jrwren throws up.
<jcastro> for like performance or something?
<jrwren> yes, my hypothesis is that it will speed page load time.
<cmaloney> This is why I <3 Pebble: https://medium.com/pebble-research/opening-the-black-box-publishing-pebbles-activity-tracking-algorithms-bebdb5a7383a#.ez44jy923
<cmaloney> https://medium.com/pebble-research
<cmaloney> https://youtu.be/_ZBKX-6Gz6A
<cmaloney> http://io9.gizmodo.com/transformers-the-movie-is-finally-coming-to-blu-ray-fo-1781557384
<jrwren> SWEET!
<jrwren> YOU GOT THE TOUCH!!!
<cmaloney> Just happend to see that in my travels
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-10
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> yea, +1 there
<cmaloney> morn
<jrwren> FRIDAY FRIDAY good morning. GOTTA GET DOWN
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJh47LybCkU
<cmaloney> I don't know what I felt the need to play this
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+AlanPope/posts/RykydZJyAVf
<shakes808> HAHA  Morning all
<cmaloney> Morning pt.2
<cmaloney> MS has lost the plot: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/06/10/1350245/visual-studio-2015-c-compiler-secretly-inserts-telemetry-code-into-binaries
<jrwren> that is old news. weird that it got posted today.
<jrwren> i guess /. is WAY behind.
<dzho> the reddit thread is a month old
<dzho> the infoq thing is "new"
<dzho> so I think this is just slashdot being derivative
 * dzho shrugs
<dzho> I hadn't heard it before so whatevs
<cmaloney> same
<jrwren> man, netdata is awesome.
<jrwren> https://github.com/firehol/netdata  there is a PPA search issues.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-11
<cmaloney_exile> morning
<_stink_> ..
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-12
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/06/11/learning-challenge---6502-assembly:-day-10-11/
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-05
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808_> morning
<brousch> I have to perform my first code review today. It's for our intern.
<rick_h> remember, always ask questions
<rick_h> goes so much better if phrased as a question ime
<brousch> WTF were you thinking here?
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> "Are you an idiot?"
<brousch> These seem useful https://smartbear.com/learn/code-review/best-practices-for-peer-code-review/
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> "What do you think of trying this way"
<rick_h> "can you walk me through how it'll work in this case" (which I know will cause it to go boom)
<rick_h> "you have checked out the style guide link here: .... "
<rick_h> err have you that is
<brousch> Heh, no style guides here.
<brousch> We do have PEP8 checker on some stuff
<rick_h> "have you run this through make check" :)
<brousch> I like the annotation tip: have him annotate the code before I review
<rick_h> oh yea, always have the person self-review before asking someone else to look
<rick_h> create the PR, get a coffee, then review the diff stand along in the review tool
<rick_h> and only THEN ask folks to spend their time looking at it
<cmaloney> But above all make it clear that it's not a hearing
<rick_h> but watch out, if the PR needs a lot of annotations then the code might as well
<rick_h> which means comments and docs and ... vs just a PR comment
<brousch> Heh, looking at the code. He's definitely gonna need some PEP8 love.  He is learning PYthon while writing this
<cmaloney> Nice
<brousch> So far he's learned C++ at UM. He's going into Sophomore year
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> Ah, so you have C++ as interpreted via Python
<jrwren> pet peeve: making a class when you don't need a class. :)
<cmaloney> class Addition(object):
<cmaloney>    def __init__(self, a, b):
<cmaloney>     self.a = a
<cmaloney>     self.b = b
<cmaloney>     def add_setter(a):
<cmaloney>     self.a = a
<cmaloney> feh, I goofed my own goofy example
<cmaloney> def add_setter_a(a):
<cmaloney>   self.a = a
<cmaloney> etc.
<jrwren> even modern c++ doesn't use classes unless needed.
<jrwren> Stroustrup even said he was astounded at how C++ was used and that it was never his intent for classes to be used so much.
<rick_h> jrwren: but but but OOP dude!
<rick_h> when classes are mistaken for a namespace
<cmaloney> They're not? :)
 * cmaloney whistles at the number of times he used a class as a global.
<cmaloney> So is it pretty much a given that when something say "this doesn't use a Framework" that JQuery 3 is not a framework? :)
<cmaloney> (I know that's a strange question, but saw a tutorial that said "Single Page Application with no Frameworks" and the first few paragraphs say "we're using JQuery / Handlebars because it's easier to manipulate the DOM that way")
<jrwren> access to globals being slow in python is a pretty good reason to always use classes... in python :p
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Hadn't heard that global access in Python is slow
<jrwren> i always forget that it is, but yes, it is.
<jrwren> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips#Local_Variables
<cmaloney> huh
<cmaloney> Ah, because it takes longer for it to find it
<cmaloney> that makes sense
<cmaloney> shouldn't be miliseconds though, but huh
<jrwren> yeah, its not a big deal at all... because if you care about perf, you'll use pypy anyway and it won't matter.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I tried playing around with CPython to speed p a probram gor JoDee. That was fun
<cmaloney> s/CPython/Cython/
<cmaloney> and pypy
<jrwren> cython is awesome. I used it a lot at arbor.
<cmaloney> also ufora, but couldn't get it working right
<cmaloney> though I think that was my fault
<cmaloney> but seemed rather heavy for what I was trying to do
<notlikethesoup> mm python tho
<greg-g> "do you wear underwear? when you're in bed?" "no" "me neither, watch!"
<greg-g> oh to overhear 5-7 year olds playing in the morning
<cmaloney> o.0
<cmaloney> I wear underwear in bed
<greg-g> rowan wears pants, but not underwear, most of the time
<greg-g> tmi? :)
<cmaloney> meh. Whatever works.
<_stink__> my kids are usually the opposite
<cmaloney> pants optional?
<brousch> _stink__++
<_stink__> yes
<greg-g> well, that is when he *does* wear pants, usually he's "shirt cocking" (as they say at burning man)
<_stink__> or perhaps discouraged
<_stink__> haha
<jrwren> oh, my!
<cmaloney> shirt cocking?
<cmaloney> "This is the type of nudity known as "shirtcocking." Shirtcocking is when a man wears a top but is naked from the waist down. I have also heard this look referred to as "the toddler," or "Porky Pigging.""
<cmaloney> Thank you, Quora
<rick_h> heh I had to look it up as well
<_stink__> i just used the ol' imagination
<cmaloney> I had a vague idea, but needed the confirmation
<rick_h> yea, sometimes you have to go "no...that can't really ..."
<_stink__> hah
<brousch> Isn't it really uncomfortable to have your johnson flopping and slapping all over?
<_stink__> s/uncomfortable/liberating
<jrwren> zomg, why this conversation???
<brousch> greg-g started it
<jrwren> some women rip their bra off as soon as they get home, some men rip their pants off... comfort is subjective. lets move on :)
<greg-g> true, but I blame the 5-7 year olds below my window :)
<notlikethesoup> oh hey what happened to mrgoodcat
<notlikethesoup> D:
<cmaloney> Not sure. he's been quiet lately.
<notlikethesoup> i guess i should note that i'm friends with him; he's who told me of this group
<cmaloney> Hoping everything is OK. Last I talked with him he was going through a rough patch
<notlikethesoup> we were at a wedding and bachelor party together two and three weeks ago, it was a good time and he was good
<notlikethesoup> hell, he helped me out a lot because i drank a bit too much haha
<notlikethesoup> welcome to open bar weddings
<cmaloney> Leave your keys at the door
<notlikethesoup> our airbnb was only about a half-mile walk away, it was great
<notlikethesoup> wb mrgoodcat :)
<mrgoodcat> hi
<mrgoodcat> my client keeps re-nicking me to "danny" when we netwplit
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-07
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/872238620102590465
<cmaloney> I literally wrote garbage and a bot liked it on Twitter
<_stink__> haha
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h> morn and such
<_stink__> hi
<cmaloney> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/c69mun0iemrk790jr3e869km38%40group.calendar.google.com/private-6d46ebba9ec64014afae7163c7777163/basic.ics
<cmaloney> CHC calendar in case anyone wants it. :)
<rick_h> woot woot
<cmaloney> Tired of fighting with G+ to make events
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-08
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> ugh morning
<cmaloney> Yeah, sadly it's another morning
<shakes808> morning
<jrwren> TIL: dig stands for domain information groper
<dzho> this was cause of some friction between a friend and me.
<dzho> I contend that "grope" is itself a perfectly innocent word, as in "when I wake up I tend to grope around for my glasses"
<dzho> but he maintains that it carries too much connotation of sexual molestation
<cmaloney> unfortunately this is a word that has taken on a charged meaning
<cmaloney> like harassment is now sexual harassment
<cmaloney> as opposed to just harassing someone
<dzho> we're really doing big brother's work for him when we narrow these usages.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-09
<wolfger> cmaloney: harassment is harassment. Why should "sexual" make it worse?
<wolfger> ...or lack of sexual nature make it better, to flip it around
<jrwren> same reason sexual assault is worse than std assault.
<jrwren> as a society we have deemed it so.
<cmaloney> wolfger: "The two brothers harassed each other in the back seat of the car"
<cmaloney> Sounds lurid in certain contexts
<cmaloney> but it's a perfect word for the hijinx that children get up to
<_stink__> i thikn it's as much to do with the fact that sometimes people are not comfortable uttering the word 'sexual', so when they mean 'sexual harassment', they say 'harassment'.  and then it's confusing for anyone who hears the word 'harassment' alone.
<Scary_Guy> could just say "bullying"
<Scary_Guy> of course a lot of times people cross the line without even realising it too
<Scary_Guy> not that it makes it better
<cmaloney> Bullying is also one of those charged words
<Scary_Guy> well what would you describe it as then?
<cmaloney> I'm saying those words are perfectly good words, but they're also charged words
<cmaloney> which got to the original point
<Scary_Guy> I missed that part
<Scary_Guy> but anything can be a charged word in the right context
<jrwren> the OP was that some words carry an implied context.
<Scary_Guy> After a while yes, for sure
<Scary_Guy> For example, in the funeral industry it used to be casket was the PC term, now it's just called the container or even vessel
<jrwren> including the holder of ashes
<Scary_Guy> new one to me
<jrwren> no no, i mean those are called vessels too
<Scary_Guy> oh, yeah
<Scary_Guy> I figure it's multipurpose
<Scary_Guy> also you could have just said urn and I'd have been way less confused
<Scary_Guy> Anyway I like the Penn & Teller Bullshit episode where they renamed it Poppycock.  The word doesn't matter, just the context it's used in
<cmaloney> <3 P&T BS
<Scary_Guy> I think Rick & Morty proved that a few times just by making up new weird words
<jrwren> speaking of... when are we meeting up at Blips and Chits?
<Scary_Guy> Is that a reference?  I still haven't even finished season 1
<Scary_Guy> I need to get on that soon
<Scary_Guy> why can't I git clone profanity" ?
<Scary_Guy> says it does't exist
<notlikethesoup> Scary_Guy: yeah you do
<notlikethesoup> season 2 was super good
<jrwren> and season 3 starts in a week
<notlikethesoup> [citation needed]
<Scary_Guy> well they did release an episode of it April 1st I think
<Scary_Guy> but yeah, that's pretty much why I need to catch up
<cmaloney> Yay, the contractors next door are listening to WRIF
<cmaloney> last song: Linkin Park
<jrwren> ugh. WRIF is sooo bad. They have like 10 songs on rotation
<cmaloney> apparently they haven't updated their playlist since 2000
<Scary_Guy> it's more than 10... I think
<Scary_Guy> I don't know, I haven't really listened in a long time
<Scary_Guy> mostly when driving if I forget a USB drive, and even then I'm station hopping
<cmaloney> I think they have a repertoire of 100 songs
<cmaloney> heavily eighted by Ozzy, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin
<cmaloney> s/eighted/weighted/
<cmaloney> Oh, Black Sabbath too
<Scary_Guy> well you already said Ozzy, for the most part it's covered
<cmaloney> Didn't want to upset brousch ;)
<Scary_Guy> Dio fan?
<cmaloney> Nah, Black Sabbath fan
<cmaloney> I'm sure it's the equivalent of a Yes fan saying "That Jon Anderson group"
<cmaloney> or rather saying that to a Yes fan
<brousch> I really don't like Dio
<brousch> I generally prefer growlers, and his singing just hurts my ears
<cmaloney> Yeah, he's an acquired taste
<cmaloney> What's this? I'm not familiar with this song on WRIF
<cmaloney> Sounds 1980s hair metal
<Scary_Guy> anyway I'm going to go lay down and try to remmeber my jabber password, bbl
<cmaloney> have fun
<brousch> Does jabber still exist?
<cmaloney> Yep
<brousch> I figured it died when Gtalk stopped supporting it
<jrwren> ddg also stopped theirs :(
<cmaloney> SLASH FT MYLES KENNEDY was the "hair metal" song that I heard.
<cmaloney> http://wrif.com/stream/WRIFFM/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-10
<Scary_Guy> @brousch, conversations is the recommended android client (free on f-droid).  There's also a new encryption called OMEMO which allows for multi-client connections too
<Scary_Guy> gtalk can go fuck itself
<Scary_Guy> so can failbook messenger
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: congrats on pyohio talk acceptance
<cmaloney> brousch: Thank you. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-04
<greg-g> https://cybre.space/@vi/100142961366826694
<waldo323> good morning
<Scary_Guy> mornin'
<jrwren> TIL this exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Arcade_Adventures:_On_the_Rain-Slick_Precipice_of_Darkness
<jrwren> Good morning #ubuntu-us-mi
<flipsidecreation> Good morning, has everyone moved to GitLab yet?
<jrwren> working on it.
<jrwren> arguing hte evils of MSFT in ##csharp, cuz I"m insane and I am reading even more about Eric Lundgren
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaoJErxYLtM  so many points here that I didn't even think of.
<jrwren> It has made me EVEN MORE ANGRY about the Eric Lundgren case.
<jrwren> #freelundgren
<jrwren> "microsoft is abusing the power of the government to put people in jail for the sole reason that they made products easier to service." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaoJErxYLtM
<flipsidecreation> yup, one side of the company is embracing open source while the other is still M$ as usual
<jrwren> wait... they are making Nat the CEO of GH?  wow! good for him!
<jrwren> sometimes I regret not taking the job when Nat called me up and tried to recruit me :(
<flipsidecreation> Yeah
<flipsidecreation> My dad regrets not taking the job at a pizza place his friends was opening in 1973 and went to work for GM instead.
<flipsidecreation> My dad didn't think anyone would buy pizza from a place called Hungry Howie's Pizza
<cmaloney> Good morning
<flipsidecreation> Morning cmaloney is all your code moved away from GitHub before the terms and conditions change? :)
<cmaloney> Not really. They can have it
<cmaloney> If they can get piddlepodder to work better more power to them
<brousch> flipsidecreation: I still won't buy from Hungry Howie's. The pizza is nasty.
<flipsidecreation> They are ok, not great but ok
<jrwren> oh, then I won't try it. Its the only thing near me that I've never had.
<cmaloney> They're work a try. I'm not sure how their pizza is now, but they were the first to do the flavored crust schtick
<cmaloney> that I'm aware of
<_stink_> we get hungry howie's all the time
<_stink_> but uh it's not fancy
<flipsidecreation> nope, it's edible
<_stink_> it's little caesars + 1
<flipsidecreation> that is accurate
<jrwren> TY for this evaluation. I shall continue to pass and if I want flavored crust, I will add it to Jets that I get :)
<brousch> Jets is much better
<cmaloney> Jets is decent
<greg-g> ah yeah, Jet's is who I had in Chelsea
<cmaloney> Sadly Jet's Pizza doesn't go that far AFAICT
<Scary_Guy> now that it's confirmed I'm updating all my repos and then deleting my account.  Never really did use it anyway other than to clone stuff so it's super easy for me.  Saw a tutorial though for those of you moving to GitLab on youtube
<Scary_Guy> Little Ceaser's < Hungry Howie
<Scary_Guy> s < Jets
<Scary_Guy> Jets is on par with Domino's and Pizza Hut
<Scary_Guy> Then you get Green Lantern, and Pizza House which is my current favorite over in Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> Dominos is akin to taking the box and putting the pizza toppings on it
<cmaloney> that's how they are so affordable
<jrwren> Pizza House is DAMN GOOD
<jrwren> its $$$ though. Definitely a rare treat compared to others.
<cmaloney> Ann Arbor thing?
<jrwren> cmaloney: dominos can be good, but you have to know how to order it.
<jrwren> Pizza House is in Ann Arbor and Lansing.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Right.
<cmaloney> If you're ordering Dominos here's a simple checklist
<cmaloney> 1) Don't
<jrwren> no no no.
<cmaloney> 2) Throw out that number and order literally anything else.
<jrwren> my guide to ordering dominos: 1> 12" (medium) pan. 2> heavy sauce (its free)
<jrwren> that is it.
<Scary_Guy> to be fair, I haven't had Domino's in a very long time.  I just remember it was edible
<cmaloney> That's fait praise
<cmaloney> faint
<Scary_Guy> I wasn't really praising it
<Scary_Guy> if anything I just like the delivery car
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTP5UtOYOds
<jrwren> a couple yrs ago Dominos redid everything.
<jrwren> It could be that because I live in AA where dominos is HQ that it is better here.
<jrwren> in fact, my lcoal dominos is the closest branch location to the HQ.
<jrwren> so maybe I just get the good qwuality while everyone else suffers.
<jrwren> and when I don't get the pan with heavy sauce, I'm always disappointed, but the pan with heavy sauce makes for a great foundation.
<Scary_Guy> If you're in A2 you should get PH because PH < every goddamn thing except for that one inn I went to up in Eagle Harbor in the U.P. and that might just be on par
<jrwren> eh, I would, but PH is liek 4X the price.
<Scary_Guy> yeah, for a reason
<jrwren> usually I want 2 pizza for $12-14, not $30.
<Scary_Guy> I'd take out a loan from a guy named Fat Tony to get that pizza
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> dammit, now i'm realizing its been at least a year since I've had PH.
<jrwren> I may have to get some soon.
<Scary_Guy> and he'd understand why because he'd be fat from eating all the Pizza House pizza
<_stink_> i eat cheap pizza all the time
<jrwren> they other thing cool about PH is they deliver until 4am or something crazy like that.
<_stink_> little caesars
<_stink_> you snobs :P
<Scary_Guy> Necto is tonight, I may end up there before hand
<Scary_Guy> Oh I forgot Happy's Pizza too, which exists below dog food
<jrwren> when I think happy's I want the cheap ribs :p
<greg-g> _stink_++
<jrwren> rick_h_: oh damn! gopkg.in/mgo.v2 is deprecated and unsupported? is juju and charmstore moving to a diff library? is that rough?
<cmaloney> Where are you seeing that it is unsuported / deprecated?
<jrwren> follow through to the github repo
<waldo323> is there a central gitlab server or is it mostly host your own?
<waldo323> wow, old place of work is prominent on the gitlab page - too bad my group wasn't using it
<greg-g> gitlab.com
<greg-g> it's open core, so a ton of people just use the main offering
<greg-g> but gnome and debian are notable in that they run their own instances
<jrwren> as long as Nat is CEO of github, I'll continue to trust them.
<jrwren> hell, I trust them even more now.
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> so, does "startup" now just mean "any company that is actively looking to be bought out for the right price"?
<cmaloney> My biggest concern is they're going to try to make money on github
<jrwren> yes
<cmaloney> and as someone who worked for Sourceforge that is a rather dubious path
<jrwren> cmaloney: GH already makey money. 200M+ in revenue
<cmaloney> And they owe how much to VCs?
<jrwren> they have sold GH enterprise for many years now.
<greg-g> to MS :)
<cmaloney> They might be profitable, but I think they took on a lot of debt to get there
<cmaloney> hence the MS acquisition
<waldo323> hopefully it will improve git (and version control in general) adoption throughout many industries where it was lacking before
<waldo323> imporantdoc_latest.doc
<waldo323> imporantdoc_new_latest.doc
<waldo323> imporantdoc_newer_latest.doc
<waldo323> gets old fast
<greg-g> the only solution to that problem (shittily versioned text docs that Communications etc people create) is google docs
<greg-g> sadly
<greg-g> I should add "... that I found"
<waldo323> that is a good solution.  office could come with git and have settings to allow for saving + committing, pushing etc
<jrwren> my query aggregates and windowing function knowledge isn't good enough.
<jrwren> I have a table that has user_pk and creation_time of referals that a sales person has referred customers to. I'm trying to find the right aggregates and window functions to group them so that the query results are ordered by the first, second, third, etc sales person to refer some count N during a threashold of time, creation time between start/end.
<rick_h_> jrwren: well mongo is finally putting together an official go client
<rick_h_> jrwren: so one day I expect us to move to that, but it's still alpha
<rick_h_> jrwren: so not sure
<cmaloney> Seems a little premature to deprecate the old library if the official one isn't ready
<cmaloney> I mean, this isn't JavaScript
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-05
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<jrwren> ugh.
<cmaloney> Sorry.
<waldo323> yeah can we rename today to something like murphyslawday?
<cmaloney> Sure thing
<Scary_Guy> Got Pizza House, was awesome.  Had no idea they were open until 4AM
<jrwren> you are welcome :)
<jrwren> college campuses are fun.
<Scary_Guy> no they aren't, I can't carry on them
<Scary_Guy> but I tolerate it
<Scary_Guy> I mean I can't carry into the bar either even though I don't drink
<jrwren> well, you CAN. It just isn't legal.
<Scary_Guy> I prefer not to get sodomized by the long nightstick of the law though
<jrwren> Suzanna Hupp taught me that following bad laws can result in needless death.
<Scary_Guy> I like the saying "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but still...
<Scary_Guy> The entire reason I get to have a gun is that I'm law abiding.  I don't want it taken away or to get screwed with over petty BS laws
<jrwren> i agree, and I don't even carry.
<Scary_Guy> I wish more people did :/  and I wish more people did :D
<waldo323>  wish people didn't have to
<waldo323> er I wish
<Scary_Guy> me too, but that isn't the world we live in and if the bad guys get to have them, then damnit so should we
<greg-g> OGPC
<Scary_Guy> OGPC?
<Scary_Guy> Original Gangsta Personal Computer?
<greg-g> One Gun Per Child (a la OLPC)
<Scary_Guy> oh, lol.  well I guess as long as they get the proper training (which includes the value of life).  Though there should be a minimum cutoff age and I think it depends on the maturity of the child too.
<Scary_Guy> but unfortunately most adults don't even get that training
<Scary_Guy> and especially don't give a 9 year old a fully automatic weapon that they can't control.  That did not end well for the dad :(
<greg-g> It's ok, I'm just trolling you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-06
<jrwren> Good morning.
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> Is there a unix util, maybe a grep option, which will output the byte offset of the search found?
<jrwren> durp, grep -b.
<jrwren> i had to ask so that I could find it. :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I'm not even sure I would have known where to look for that
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Howdy
<cmaloney> how's the day so far?
<greg-g> god damnit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17245649
<greg-g> our instance is getting slower this morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: I feel your pain
<jrwren> gitea looksnice.
<greg-g> +1 to gitea
<cmaloney> It's interesting how I've gone from "Gitlab and Github and Whatever Chris Lemmer Webber uses" to "Well, Gitea is a Gogs fork and ..."
<cmaloney> Thank you Microsoft!
<jrwren> no exodus from GH is needed.
<jrwren> GH is more trustworthy than ever with Nat at the helm.
<cmaloney> Oh I trust the captain, but I have my eyes on where the lifeboats / lifejackets are
<cmaloney> That's true of Gitlab (where I copied my projects)
<cmaloney> Pretty much anything that has no visible means of support outside of VCs is suspect
<jrwren> that is the funny thing though. GH has 200M$ revenue
<cmaloney> no douby
<cmaloney> doubt
<greg-g> what's their net?
<greg-g> negative?
<jrwren> no one knows.
<jrwren> or rather, only investors know.
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Yeah, the speculation is that GH would have had to do another round of funding to keep up
<cmaloney> which is where MS comes into play
<brousch> jrwren: Who is this Nat person?
<jrwren> brousch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Friedman
<jrwren> brousch: remember Helix Code?
<brousch> I remember Xamarin
<jrwren> close enough.
<jrwren> only 10yrs later.
<waldo323> cmaloney, are the free plans from gitlab new?
<waldo323> er oh the article I had glimpsed says 'now free' so I suppose so
<cmaloney> Yeah, those are new
<cmaloney> but they're looking to get folks who are in academia / larger OSS companies to take a peek
<cmaloney> What's neat is they have built-in CI
<cmaloney> and a lot of the upper-level project management
<waldo323> https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/05/gitlabs-high-end-plans-are-now-free-for-open-source-projects-and-schools/
<cmaloney> https://github.com/me-shaon/GLWTPL
<_stink_> hah
<greg-g> ugh, I hate the WFTPL and variants
<jrwren> greg-g: all code should be CC0  :p
<greg-g> I'm a copyleft proponent :)
<jrwren> oh boy.
<greg-g> reciprocal (aka "viral") :P
<jrwren> oh yes, I know what copyleft is. :)
<greg-g> (I thought some other might not)
<cmaloney> I'm a fan of copyleft as well
<cmaloney> I like that others are encouraged to share the source
<cmaloney> This one seems to be a reverse Expat license though
<cmaloney> which was interesting
<cmaloney> Rather than being a public domain it's more of a "don't attach my name to any of this, I want nothing to do with it
<cmaloney> which of course makes it a little more difficult to figure out rights issues and what-not
<cmaloney> but if someone wants to take ownership of it then it's on them
<cmaloney> sort of a code hot-potato
<cmaloney> or a warning sign
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-07
<cmaloney> Good morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<Scary_Guy> I'm going in for a deep cleaning at the dentist today, so not really "good" I'd say
<Scary_Guy> also, all code should be BSD :p
<cmaloney> s/BSD/GPL/
<cmaloney> I agree
<Scary_Guy> https://burntsushi.net/stuff/wtfpl-strip.jpg
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> time to go home yet?
<greg-g> my task list for the week is still far too long (Annual Review/Comp adjustment/etc time)
<cmaloney> Oh lovely
<jrwren> give me a raise please. :p
<cmaloney> Give me a stipend please.
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stipend <- "It is often distinct from an income or a salary because it does not necessarily represent payment for work performed; instead it represents a payment that enables somebody to be exempt partly or wholly from waged or salaried employment in order to undertake a role that is normally unpaid (e.g. a magistrate in the United Kingdom) or voluntary, or which cannot be
<cmaloney> measured in terms of a task (e.g. members of the clergy). "
<cmaloney> Fr. Craig Maloney at your service.
<greg-g> hmm, where's my stipend line in my budget.....
<cmaloney> next to my paypal address
<rick_h_> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-08
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> good mroning
<brousch> cmaloney: Slept late?
<cmaloney> Relatively speaking, yes
<cmaloney> have been sleeping in lately to try to get some sleep
<cmaloney> Was literally sitting on the couch losing my grip on the phone
<cmaloney> falling asleep
<Scary_Guy> evening
<gamerchick02> g'day!
<cmaloney> howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-09
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<_stink_> gloomy day
<cmaloney> Si
<Scary_Guy> yes, loving the day.  also hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-10
<cmaloney> Good AM
<_stink_> yar
<cmaloney> It's not Talk Like a Pirate Day again, is it?
<_stink_> psh i don't follow The Man's calendar!
<Scary_Guy> the 13 month calendar is the only one that should matter anyway
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-01
<rick_h> we've got tools for scanning systems for cve'd software on your systems, doing CIS scanning/hardening, etc
<rick_h> it's crazy how much stuff there is out there
<greg-g> well that's more red than I normally like seeing
<jrwren> haha, right?!?
<jrwren> but a lot of these systemd security features are very new, and the debian/ubuntu packages haven't been updated to use them.
<jrwren> would be some sweet security work to debian/ubuntu for someone.
<greg-g> yeah, a good distraction from shit right now
<jrwren> on a good note... Firekeepers casino reopens today. Who wants to go shoot craps?
<_stink_> don't tempt me
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> what did craps ever do to you?
<rick_h> take my money?
<cmaloney> blam blam blam
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> Gov Whitmer press conference right now. MI is partially reopening. YAY
<rick_h> can anyone explain to me how getting numbers down by sheltering works, but then opening without any chance to the underlying environment is ok and good?
<rick_h> I don't see what change has occurred that makes it ok now, but didn't 30 days ago?
<rick_h> some form of treatment, or managing contagion? Just that enough prople have it now?
<rick_h> says the man that's been hiding from MI for 3.5mo and moving back this weekend...
<jrwren> the opening is changing underlying a bit.
<jrwren> limited capacity reopen.
<rick_h> right, but since nothing changed in the actual medicine we "in theory" could have just been doing that all along
<cmaloney> Honestly I think it's still foolishness
<jrwren> the now v. then is tied to our Rt value AFAIK.
<rick_h> right, but opening will do nothing but raise cases no matter what
<jrwren> it isn't hte medicine chnages, but capacity and availability to perform the medicine
<rick_h> so you open in order to keep a moving average of the sick?
<cmaloney> my (limited) understanding was the awareness vs slamming the ICU
<cmaloney> it means we now have beds open
<rick_h> vs holding for a vaccine or something?
<jrwren> yes, opening will raise cases, you are right about that. Medical infrastructure can now handle that.
<rick_h> right, but as far as death rate/etc nothing has made this thing less deadly
<jrwren> 1-2mo ago, medical infra couldn't handle it.
<jrwren> what cmaloney said.
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> it is still just as deadly, just as communicable.
<rick_h> right, but great, so now it's more likely the pizza guy deliverying has it and gives it to me because he's out and about in a more open society
<rick_h> and since folks aren't deemed unnecessary folks have to go back to work as they won't quality for staying at home regardless of their risk levels
<jrwren> you aren't wrong.
<rick_h> it moves the respsibility off the state and back on to individuals who (by necessity to be clear) have to make poor choices
<cmaloney> It means that we get a short-term political win until it gets scary again
<rick_h> it just really saddens me to be honest. It feels like giving in and accepting the loss of life will continue and grow
<cmaloney> and the smart places will remain closed and distant
<rick_h> but maybe I'm missing something and I shouldn't be so negative
<cmaloney> rick_h: It's the will of the people
 * rick_h says the rest of his commentary "off air" lol
<cmaloney> they protested for it. Now we'll have to suffer the consequences
<rick_h> right, I'd be fine if only they did but it won't be that
<cmaloney> "here's your freedom. Don't wait for the tab"/
<brian__> I think you mispelled that. It's freedumb. ;)
<cmaloney> It's asinine, but apparently societal pressure work
<cmaloney> s
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-02
<mrgoodcat> think a lot of people who are only wfh because of the order will likely stay wfh. also, it's likely that a lot of people have already contracted it and there are possibly higher levels of immunity (speculation, also we dont know for sure that recovered people are immune)
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> reduced capacity better than nothing
<mrgoodcat> masks much more widely available and being used at least around where i live
<cmaloney> Still think it's a reckless move
<mrgoodcat> to be clear "better than nothing" means better than full capacity. "nothing" meaning "closed" is the best
<jrwren> it is wreckless if you are about not getting sick, spreading, and saving lives.
<jrwren> but afaict, that isn't what they care about. they care about balancing having enough medical capacity to handle the sick with the economy
<cmaloney> Precisely
<mrgoodcat> who is "they" in this case?
<mrgoodcat> government officials?
<cmaloney> folks in power
<jrwren> yes
<mrgoodcat> so auto company CEOs
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Merlin Mann on Twitter: "Power is the ability to make strangers live your "normal."" / Twitter
<mrgoodcat> merlin is the best
<mrgoodcat> he's such a goof
<cmaloney> That's the best definition of power I've seen related to this
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've enjoyed his work over the years.
<rick_h> right, but the folks deciding can bunker themselves because they're priviledged enough to do so vs those that will have to go and risk themselves. Just more of the same. Saddens me
<rick_h> what are they going to do when school starts
<rick_h> "well since you could sit in a diner you should be able to sit in class" regardless on if you do actually visit diners because of the family you would be exposing
<rick_h> they're already doing that with the Nov election "since you go to a grocery store you can go wait in lines and vote in person"
<rick_h> opening just feeds more and more risk to those removing their ability to reduce it even voluntarily any more
 * rick_h gets off soapbox
<rick_h> guess who's driving home friday :)
<greg-g> <3 <3 <3
<cmaloney> rick_h: Good news
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: pulled the trigger on a tallboy. tentative plan right now is to sell stache and buy another more traditional hardtail some time in the near future, and in the medium future get a mid-long travel bike for travelling places where burlier suspension is needed
<mrgoodcat> for now, the tallboy will cover my needs for copper harbor
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea very nice
<mrgoodcat> and likely all my local riding
<mrgoodcat> want to sell the stache this year if possible. it is a 2018 so I think if i wait one more year the value is likely to go down substantially
<rick_h> my dropper cable broke yesterday and had to take my cable out, then manually extend the post to climb up to the top
<mrgoodcat> right now on PB the model I have seems to be sitting in the 1500-1700 range
<jrwren> rick_h: I saw a thing on 11 oclock news last night hilighting how other nations are back to school. So yes, they are already programming hte people with propoganda to accept it.
<rick_h> and then had to take my seat back out, activate the switch, press the seat down, and then ride down locked in lol
<jrwren> oh man, you guys and your fancy bikes :)
<rick_h> it'll be nice to get to work on it in the garage again
<rick_h> jrwren:  :)
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: americans can't accept the fact that other countries handle things better than we do and get to reap the rewards. we want to skip straight to the reward part
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: oh dear that sounds like a long ride
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: that is a good way to say it.
<mrgoodcat> the "america is the best" narrative can't be challenged by such silly concerns as not actually being particularly good at anything
<mrgoodcat> if you simply define "best" as "whatever we do", then we are, by definition, the best
<mrgoodcat> check mate nerds
<jrwren> we are good at incarceration. the best actually. :)
<mrgoodcat> yes because big number is always good
<rick_h> Yea, because if you're not the best just ask a statitician to find a way to make the graph point up and to the right and go "we're the best"
<rick_h> there was some graphic from a news program that showed "declining covid numbers" and when you look they moved the months around so the graph went down
<rick_h> but then the months were no longer in order from left to right
<rick_h> "picture says good!"
<mrgoodcat> oh dear i did not see taht
<mrgoodcat> there are twitter accounts dedicated to misleading graphs on news programs
<jrwren> i remember
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-03
<jrwren> so... i think i fixed my rpi4. it has firmware updates that libreelec doesn't install but raspbian does. just had to boot raspbian, apt update/upgrade and reboot and the firmware gets upgraded
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> hrm... nope... still acting wonky. a little more stable, I think, but still wonky :(
<jrwren> what are teh chances that a piece of copper pipe, a twist tie, and a rubberband will do the job for an rpi4 heat sync?
<jrwren> copper is good, right? :)
<jrwren> 122ÂºF instead of 131ÂºF so I guess it is working.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-04
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<greg-g> just found out no merit increases this year, only a (less than normal) COLA increase for all staff applied uniformly. I can't complain, I have a job.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's hard to complain about
<jrwren> i am.
<jrwren> TIL: podman has been a better docker replacement for years. dunno why anyone uses docker on linux these days.
<cmaloney> habit and mindshare afaict
<mrgoodcat> momentum
<mrgoodcat>  most people don't have a problem with docker, or if they have a problem they google "how to X with docker" or "make docker do X"
<cmaloney> Also if it doesn't work well on Windows then it's a non-starter
<mrgoodcat> and container services advertise "works with docker"
<mrgoodcat> at many companies, if you use some other docker-like at work and some shit hits the fan you're in trouble even if that same shit would have hit the fan with docker
<mrgoodcat> very unlikely you will catch any shit for using docker
<cmaloney> Good point
<jrwren> we just fired docker so... i dont have to worry about taht ;)
<jrwren> 'no one ever got fired for buying IBM'
<mrgoodcat> fwiw i have not had any major problems with docker that were not relatively trivial to work around, but I have also not done anything all that advanced
<jrwren> me either... until I did.
<mrgoodcat> mind sharing?
<jrwren> and the more I dug to try to solve it, hte more I learned that garbage docker is.
<jrwren> the way it does networking is nasty.
<jrwren> the port map doesn't actually port map, it uses a proxy process.
<jrwren> that is why you don't get real REMOTE_ADDR
<cmaloney> oof
<jrwren> and it has some networking options, but none that work the way I need for a sane pihole network setup.
<jrwren> but it looks like podman does. I'll let ya know when I get around to actually moving it.
<mrgoodcat> i have heard of the not being able to get remote addr problem. most of the time the workaround suggested is to put it behind something like nginx and trust the x-forwarded-for header, but that is a shit solution
<jrwren> and the docs for docker actually don't talk about it. they suggest that docker uses iptables and actually does DNAT correctly, but in practice it doesn't.
<jrwren> its ok, it is a niche, and I know it.
<mrgoodcat> at BigCorp though, they want you to put it behand AWS Elastic Garbage Disposal anyways though which does x-forwarded-for
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> maybe at your big corp.
<jrwren> at my bigcorp... well... like I said... we fired docker.
<mrgoodcat> where do you work? i use BigCorp as a euphemism for the industry of enterprise software in general
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> I work for Cisco.
<mrgoodcat> oh a legit bigcorp
<jrwren> yeah.
<mrgoodcat> also cisco is like The Champion of host it yourself
<jrwren> although ALL of cisco didn't fire docker, just our little piece.
<mrgoodcat> obviously they don't want you to aws lol
<jrwren> 100 of the 72000
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-05
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<Scary_Guy> https://workmanlayout.org/
<jrwren> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-mint-dumps-ubuntu-snap/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-06
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-06-07
<greg-g> goodnight
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
