#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-04
<charlie-tca> Are we taking a step back? GDM is asking for a user name again
<charlie-tca> as in, only user on system, must type in username
<charlie-tca> hmm, this was a maverick encrypted LVM install, it won't allow me to login. I will try a non-encrypted install, then.
<cody-somerville> Ristretto's lack of print support makes me sad.
<charlie-tca> I understand that. Not being able to login was pretty bad
<charlie-tca> OTOH, I am hoping that I screwed up, and can really log in to gdm in maverick images
<cody-somerville> That sucks too, lol.
<charlie-tca> sucks even more. I can't log in on non-encrypted installation either
<charlie-tca> alternate 386 image. Seems it forgets to create the user!
<charlie-tca> Maverick ISO for today does not create the user! GDM won't authenticate the missing user
<charlie-tca> known and fixed issue
<charlie-tca> well, at least that "no user" issue isn't limited today. The desktop live environment fails too!
<TheSheep> you might want to replace aumix with amixer in default key bindings -- aumix doesn't work anymore
<mr_pouit> default key bindings use xfce4-volumed
<TheSheep> ah, I must have settings from before a couple of versions then
<TheSheep> funny, neither xfce4-volumed --help nor man xfce4-volumed works :/
<mr_pouit> yeah, there are no options anyway ;>
<TheSheep> then how am I supposed to bind it to the keys?
<mr_pouit> it's just a daemon which grabs your VolUp/VolDown/VolMute keys and change the gstreamer mixer properties
<mr_pouit> you don't need to do anything
<TheSheep> well, it doesn't
<TheSheep> ok, thanks
<mr_pouit> yeah, the new release works better
<mr_pouit> (relies on libkeybinder that is really able to grabs keysâ¦)
<TheSheep> well, I upgraded to 10.10 yesterday...
<TheSheep> or do you mean 'the version in the repository' by 'new release'?
<mr_pouit> no, v. 0.1.9, released on Sep 25
<mr_pouit> too late for maverick ;-(
<TheSheep> funny thing, --version doesn't work either :)
<TheSheep> launchpad has 0.1.6
<TheSheep> then again, you might consider using amixer, which happens to work
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-05
<Book_em_Dano> Does anyone know the correct command to upgrade a computer to the most recent development release?  xubuntu-docs states that the command is gksudo update-manager -c -d, but this is not correct.
<mr_pouit> probably gksudo "update-manager -c -d"
<Book_em_Dano> thanks mr_pouit I just figured that out
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: you around?
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, yup
<charlie-tca> wiki.ubuntu.com won't let me login to edit anything. Who do I contact on that?
<charlie-tca> It goes to "User Preferences" everytime I hit "login"
<charlie-tca> Oh, my! what a week to test maverick. Blew up my cd-rw today, took 45 minutes to get the system to boot
<charlie-tca> Can't get in to edit anything, including xubuntu team reports
<charlie-tca> rsync is taking about 3 hours already, and I am 3/4 done
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Try clearing your cookies and trying again
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, if that doesn't work, I'd bug someone in #canonical-sysadmin
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> Same thing with cookies cleared
<charlie-tca> Thanks, cody-somerville. Seems it is a wide user problem right now if you are not logged in already
<cody-somerville> good thing I didn't try relogging in then, lol
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> got it fixed now. It was MoinMoin doing something, I think
<TheSheep> lies!
<charlie-tca> Huh?
<charlie-tca> Here or there?
<TheSheep> check my cloak ;)
<charlie-tca> Oh
<charlie-tca> Yeah, but that doesn't mean Canonical didn't do something to break it, does it?
<charlie-tca> MoinMoin doesn't break by itself
<TheSheep> then it's canonical doing something ;)
<charlie-tca> sorry
<charlie-tca> lol
<TheSheep> actually it does, but that's a different story
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-06
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: 64bit desktop image is oversized. We are supposed to be testing these final images now. The release team would like testing finished by Friday night, if possible. Can you take a look at the image, please?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: pitti fixed it today
<mr_pouit> (removed italian langpack)
<charlie-tca> Great! Thank you
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-07
<charlie-tca> All images are being rebuilt and require testing again. I will be out for most of today. Please help with testing if you can.
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-08
<charlie-tca__> mr_pouit: Xubuntu Maverick 64bit desktop image is 712MB. I was told you should trim it down, please
<charlie-tca__> <charlie-tca__> pitti: ^ ^  ^ still need to trim more
<charlie-tca__> <slangasek> charlie-tca__: what should be trimmed?  That's a decision for the xubuntu devs rather than the release team, isn't it?
<charlie-tca__> Got something happening. Changes were not made as requested, but are happening now.
<charlie-tca__> <slangasek> in fact, from what I see the changes didn't take because we haven't done a task regeneration run in the archive since the seeds were changed
<charlie-tca__> slangasek gave it a hard push, just waiting for the respin of the desktop images now
<charlie-tca> highvoltage: you around?
<charlie-tca> Edubuntu 64bit live environment in VirtualBox gave me a "iTalc client closed unexpectedly" error. Is this known?
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: yep, it does it on a full machine too while in the live environment
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: we can only fix that for natty, unfortunately
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks
<charlie-tca> live cd testing in progress
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-09
<charlie-tca> Final release notes for Maverick are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/MaverickMeerkat/Final .
<charlie-tca> Please feel free to improve them
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-10
<sladen> http://xubuntu.org/news/10.10-release  <<--- linked in the release announcement is 404
<charlie-tca> I never even saw the release announcement before it published
<charlie-tca> sladen: Would have been nice to ask first!
<sladen> charlie-tca: sorry, I wasn't involved with it.  I don't know what the mechanism is for agreeing the URLs
<sladen> charlie-tca: they could just well be a search and replace from 10.04!
<charlie-tca> being in canonical employment this time around
<charlie-tca> We'll have the announcement up after the website guy gets up. 
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: Can you or vinnl get the mirrors updated to show 10.10 on http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu ?
<Aquina> I'm referring to http://pastebin.com/n9bkjfJc and let you know my employee allowed me to host something and also put in a server into the employee-rack (just for me/us) which is awsome. UNFORTUNATELY they only allow to use theses systems for OURSELVES (compile, host, do wahtever we want to) for security and economic reasons. Thus hosting Xubuntu to the public is not allowed. :-( I'm sorry.. I tried hard!
<owen1> guys, a new version of xubuntu is available! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
<owen1> can someone update the site?
<owen1> this link can't be found anywhere.
<mr_pouit> only a few people have access to the website, and they didn't show up today
<vinnl> Hi!
<vinnl> Has 10.10 been released yet? (i.e. can I add a message to xubuntu.org? :)
<vinnl> Seems like the download is already available :)
<mr_pouit> yup, since 10am
<vinnl> OK thanks
<vinnl> There: http://xubuntu.org/news/10.10-release
<vinnl> Sorry it's late (is it? 10am CET?)
<mr_pouit> mmh, the fontpage still shows a link about 10.04
<mr_pouit> *front
<mr_pouit> "Xubuntu 10.04 is now available!"
<vinnl> Oh hmm, will update that, good that you mention it
<vinnl> What was the name of the new theme again?
<mr_pouit> bluebird
<vinnl> Ah thanks
<vinnl> Oh wait, I sent the email without adding that to it, didn't I? :P
<mr_pouit> huhu, yeah, the new theme is called () :p
<vinnl> Crap :P
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-03
<sebastian> help
<sebastian> somebody?
<ochosi> !ask | sebastian 
<ubottu> sebastian: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<micahg> good morning
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<charlie-tca> Looking more and more like we will have to remove a language pack from Alternate AMD64 image. 
<charlie-tca> The image is 702.3 MB
<micahg> WTH happened...
<charlie-tca> no idea, it grew two days in a row last week
<charlie-tca> either wed thurs or thurs fri
<charlie-tca> I think both images grew, but 386 had more room 
<charlie-tca> micahg: libwebkit??? I think did it
<karloskar> hello
<karloskar> helloo
<madnick> hello..
<charlie-tca> Hello, karloskar 
<karloskar> i have made two backgrounds for xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Great!
<karloskar> is there any place i can share them
<charlie-tca> I will have to set up a page for Oneiric. 
<charlie-tca> The page will be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Oneiric , but it does not exist yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: each 7MB still
<charlie-tca> micahg: I don't know then.
<micahg> we should've had both before
<charlie-tca> but we grew from 676MB for beta2 to 702MB now
<charlie-tca> karloskar: give me today to set the page up, we will mention it in the final release notes
<karloskar> here the first one is : http://tinypic.com/r/n1z87o/7
<charlie-tca> What are the licenses?
<charlie-tca> Are they your own material? 
<karloskar> it have not any license, i made it yesterday
<karloskar> is there any license i can put on it thats free?
<karloskar> heres the second one: http://tinypic.com/r/2i8kakp/7
<charlie-tca> Okay, so who knows the licenses here? Is GPL recommended or cc-?? ?
<karloskar> did you like them?
<charlie-tca> I am partial to the second one, yes
<charlie-tca> I can't see good with black/dark backgrounds, so that makes the first one hard for me to judge
<karloskar> ok, here is the license, i think. im not good at that stuff http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
<charlie-tca> karloskar: I am not either, but mr_pouit is. He knows what works best for us. He just isn't around right now
<karloskar> ok
<karloskar> is it not any sounds in xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> I will get the wiki set up today, though. And we can include a reference to them.
<charlie-tca> You have to turn them on, they are not on by default
<karloskar> ok
<micahg> charlie-tca: depends what you're integrating with
<micahg> re licenses
<karloskar> were do i turn them on?
<charlie-tca> karloskar: did you unmute the volume control? double-click the speaker in the panel, turn the volume on 
<karloskar> thanks
<charlie-tca> micahg: I tend to think of "what if we decide to use one at some point"
<madnick> I used to think public domain was the best license, but then my country does not respect "Public domain" :(
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I think a lot of artwork gets licensed cc-by- but I can't remember the rest of it
<madnick> Meeting in 1Â½ hour?
<charlie-tca> Um, yeah, sure is
<charlie-tca> I am scatter-brained today
<madnick> hehe, was just a bit unsure, with all the time zone changes to winter time an all that
<micahg> charlie-tca: all depends on the possible level of integration you want with other projects
<charlie-tca> madnick: that's why I keep it in UTC time, we can all adjust to that, but the time stays the same in at least that time zone.
<madnick> oh :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: that's why I defer to others for licensing. I only know sometimes they are not okay to use
<charlie-tca> and, yes, time changes still are confusing
<charlie-tca> I don't even know when I change time again now
<micahg> in the US, it's Nov 6
<charlie-tca> really? That should make traveling and settling down after UDS fun
<micahg> yes
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 30 Minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> charlie-tca: meeting?
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> sure
<micahg> I'm in another meeting ATM, but will try to participate
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting Xubuntu
<meetingology`> Meeting started Mon Oct  3 19:02:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks, micahg 
<charlie-tca> #meetingname Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology`> The meeting name has been set to 'xubuntu_community_meeting'
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> Would everyone here for this meeting please wave, say hello, or something. This lets the meeting bot record those present
<madnick> \:D/
<charlie-tca> o/
<micahg> o/
<beardygnome> o/
<touchpad> o/
<charlie-tca> Welcome, touchpad 
<touchpad> ty
<charlie-tca> Is this your first meeting with us?
<touchpad> yes
<charlie-tca> #topic === Old Business ===
<charlie-tca>  * madnick to test blueman in ppa:micahg/patch-test - Done
<charlie-tca> I have to say, blueman developers are very response to bugs at this time.
<charlie-tca>  * verify top 10 FAQ and check help links in 10
<charlie-tca> Has anyone verified these yet?
<charlie-tca>  * docs need a version bump (s/11.04/11.10)
<charlie-tca> This is done, also
<charlie-tca> Okay, that is all the old business I can remember
<charlie-tca> #topic === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are you available?
<charlie-tca> micahg: are you available for this update?
<micahg> I guess so
<charlie-tca> It's all yours
<micahg> mr_pouit updated the seed for blueman after I got the updated version in
<micahg> charlie-tca mentioned we might need to drop a langpack for amd64 live
<charlie-tca> alternate
<micahg> charlie-tca: live according to cdimage.u.c
<micahg> right, you said alternate, but it's actually live
<micahg> blueman had a couple bugs I"ll try to look at tonight or tomorrow
<charlie-tca> sorry
<micahg> charlie-tca: not a problem :)
<micahg> I'm not aware of any other updates needed before release, please let mr_pouit or I know if you see something we overlooked
<micahg> ..
<charlie-tca> bug 437883 which is blueman crashing on login has a fix committed in bzr
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437883 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437883
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much, micahg 
<charlie-tca> We now have most of the updates from Xfce for the translations too
<micahg> charlie-tca: I guess I need to pull a new upstream blueman snapshot
<charlie-tca> yup
<micahg> maybe I"ll cherry pick the commit
<charlie-tca> This week is mostly bug fixing, so we should not see massive changes any more in Oneiric
<micahg> I'd rather not pull in extraneous changes at this point
<charlie-tca> That would work too
<charlie-tca> Yes, the less the better now
<charlie-tca> Any questions for packaging and development?
<micahg> charlie-tca: any other ones like that that I should pull in?
<charlie-tca> None that I know of
<micahg> ok
<charlie-tca> That's the only fix I have seen that we haven't gotten yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: can I give you the package to test later?
<charlie-tca> Sure, I can test it
<micahg> thanks
<charlie-tca> I can't test blueman, but I can test for the crash
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> We have done great testing our images! 
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much to all the testers
<charlie-tca> This is the last week we test oneiric daily
<charlie-tca> Most of the critical for Xubuntu bugs have been fixed, and keeping them at We are tracking the Oneiric bugs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot has been a big help.
<charlie-tca> Any questions for testing?
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> pleia2: are you available?
<charlie-tca> knome: any update on the website?
<pleia2> hi
<charlie-tca> Hello, pleia2 
<charlie-tca> Any update today?
<pleia2> a few days ago I copied over some of the content from the live site to our testing wordpress site
<pleia2> in this process I identified some issues, so knome has submitted a couple patches to the theme and the picslide plugin that canonical will need to pull in
<pleia2> so we're continuing to work on the content migration as this moves along
<pleia2> that's about it :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much
<charlie-tca> I still have hopes we make it for the release :)
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> ochosi: are you available?
<charlie-tca> For those using greybird in Oneiric, you might have noticed some small changes, in the scrollbars and panels.
<charlie-tca> These are to help with those of us that can't see so good anymore, and have less than perfect mouse control
<charlie-tca> Thank you, ochosi, for that!
<charlie-tca> Any questions on artwork?
<charlie-tca> Many thanks also to madnick, we now have the new wallpaper in lightdm.
<charlie-tca> Any questions up to this point?
<charlie-tca> #topic === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca> just to see if you are paying attention:
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Sunday, October 23, 2011 at 22:00 UTC.
<charlie-tca>   * This will be the meeting to elect a new project leader.
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * We are now in UI Freeze and Beta2 Freeze; archives will remain frozen until final release.
<micahg> charlie-tca: no meeting next week?
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Final Freeze: September 29
<charlie-tca>   * Final candidate testing starts on October 10
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<madnick> October 23?
<charlie-tca>  * We need to update the Team Reports this week.
<charlie-tca> Not if we don't need one
<charlie-tca> You did notice?
<micahg> next 2 weeks...
<charlie-tca> Next week is release images, then we get a break
<charlie-tca> We will discuss the final release and pick a new leader October 23
<charlie-tca> Please make notes about things you see a need to improve for the final release
<charlie-tca> Team Reports! We seem to be behind again, so will have to roll August and September into one report
<charlie-tca> Any comments?
<beardygnome> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, beardygnome 
<beardygnome> so we don't meet again until after oneiric release?
<charlie-tca> correct
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> does one need to use the ML to nominate lead? Or will there be a normal vote as well on IRC?
<charlie-tca> Yes, nominations need to go to the Mailing List to keep them official
<charlie-tca> The actual vote to elect the new lead will be on IRC at the October 23 meeting
<madnick> oh okay
<charlie-tca> We have less than two weeks now to final release of Xubuntu 11.10
<charlie-tca>  * https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users is for those new to Xubuntu. Please join this team if you are contributing or using Xubuntu. This is the group that will elect the next project leader.
<charlie-tca> #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead
<charlie-tca>  * Nominations for project lead are now open.
<charlie-tca>   * Those wishing to nominate themselves or others should do so by email to either mailing list, or myself (charlie-tca@ubuntu.com).
<charlie-tca>   * Nominations will close October 20, 2011, and the community election will be held at the meeting on October 23, 2011. If there are issues with this, please let us know between now and October 20.
<charlie-tca> #topic === Any Other Business ===
<charlie-tca> This is now an open floor for any other discussion.
<charlie-tca> I do want to thank everyone who has helped to make Xubuntu 11.10 successful! Your hard work has made this a really good, usable release for our users.
<charlie-tca> I also want to thank everyone for coming to these meetings. Your participation is what makes Xubuntu strong.
<charlie-tca> beardygnome, jayson_r : I expect to see reviews of 11.10 from both of you.
<charlie-tca> plantoschka: I hope you are doing a review also, please.
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: for the website?
<charlie-tca> Is there anything else?
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: sure, we need one for the website.
<beardygnome> i wasn't sure if i should do one this time
<charlie-tca> Also, you all have great blogs that need to have reviews posted
<charlie-tca> pleia2: we can put a review on the website, right?
<plantoschka> i will definietly do a youtube video
<beardygnome> cos if there's things i don't like then i don't want to skip them but i don't want to criticise the team either
<charlie-tca> Criticism that is accurate and helps the team improve is welcome.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: it's up to the team, right now all we post on our team news page are release announcements and instructions from team members (how to do artwork, etc), we can add a reviews section of the site where we link to reviews, or decide to cross-post reviews we find to our news blog
<pleia2> I like the idea of a reviews section where we link to reviews because it's a pretty common thing to have
<charlie-tca> I think a review along with the release notes would be great
<charlie-tca> Let's do it, then.
<charlie-tca> For reviewers, final release is October 13, so the reviews should be October 13 or later
<charlie-tca> or at least real close, since the images are pretty accurate already
<charlie-tca> Anything else to discuss?
<charlie-tca> We should welcome touchpad and jayson_r and ElderDryas to the community.
<charlie-tca> and, of course, anyone else that is new here!
 * zus waves and thanks  everyone
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for joining in. Please get yourselfs signed up to the users team on launchpad!
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Mon Oct  3 19:41:37 2011 UTC.  
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-10-03-19.02.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> and, now, how are Magnavox CD-R's for testing?
<touchpad> Is there somewhere information/pointers about ways to contribute?
<touchpad> simple ways to start contributing to the community
<charlie-tca> http://xubuntu.org/devel
<touchpad> nice :)
<charlie-tca> Oh, I forgot!
<beardygnome> pleia2: just noticed this on http://xubuntu.org/devel - point 3 says "Join and contribute to one or more of the many different projects and teams of Xubuntu listed below", but the teams are listed above it
<charlie-tca> Testers: after the release, we get about a month to relax before we get alpha1 images to start testing again
<zus> Q: these testing img.  would i create another partition and dualboot? run a virtual box, my laoptop is the only  machine able to  link to a internet connection, and  is my workplatform.
<beardygnome> pleia2: would you prefer me to send it to the ml?
<pleia2> beardygnome: can you just https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+filebug ? I am super busy this month so keeping all bugs there would help me lots :)
<beardygnome> pleia2: will do
<pleia2> gracias
<charlie-tca> well, zus left. I will answer when they come back, then
<Olbi> I try to contact with translations team of Xfce but wierd, I didnt recaive any response, even on mailing list :(
<Olbi> today or tommorow I start install Xubuntu 11.10 on normal machine and testing it :) Core 2 Duo E6300, 512 MB RAM (try to add some more), GF7600GS, 160GB :)
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<charlie-tca> Olbi: that would be great, but don't do it if you *have* to use the machine for work
<Olbi> it is only for testing :D
<Olbi> I have too, Athlon II x2 250, 2x2GB Kingstone HyperX 1600 MHz, 320GB, Radeon 5750 Vapor-X :D
<Olbi> only for testing :)
<charlie-tca> That's good then!
<charlie-tca> Having more testing always helps.
<Olbi> :)
<Olbi> I will check translations for my language and stability cause want some identicall machine give my familly for work :)
<charlie-tca> That's a good way to do it then. 
<Olbi> could some1 help me contact with translation team of Xfce? not know but for future
<charlie-tca> Olbi: from an Xfce developer:
<charlie-tca> He or she should go to http://translations.xfce.org and create an account for Transifex 
<charlie-tca> Then chck transifex to see if there is a head of the Polish translator team.
<charlie-tca> The person would have to contact that moderator or the team leader via Transifex
<charlie-tca> Olbi: more information at http://wiki.xfce.org/translations - here's even more information 
<Olbi> charlie-tca: ok, thank you :)
<charlie-tca> You are welcome. 
<Unit193> If you can't make it to the next meeting, you can't vote, right?
<charlie-tca> correct
<charlie-tca> According to the guidelines, the project lead will be chosen by direct vote at a public meeting, which kind of limits that part of it.
<Unit193> I wasn't sure if GPG signed/encrypted message or talking to someone else would count, but I didn't think so
<Unit193> genii-around: Howdy
<Unit193> You just keep stalking me...
<charlie-tca> It didn't occur to me to change that to allow direct voting through a voting site or anything, so we have to go with people present.
<charlie-tca> My imagination is wild. I could just see 600 people show up here for the meeting and everybody trying to vote ;)
<Olbi> LOL :D
<genii-around> Unit193: I got back to computer and saw call for meeting here, thought I'd drop in to see if anything was still going on
<Unit193> I don't remember if Bug 863599 is on record anywhere, but I didn't see it with the talk of Blueman
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 863599 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-manager crashed with AttributeError in SetAdapter(): 'module' object has no attribute 'DBusServiceUnknownError'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863599
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> missed that one today
<charlie-tca> Is that in the bug reporting wiki page?
<Unit193> I would guess not
<charlie-tca> I will add it
<Unit193> Ok, I was just about to (it isn't(
<charlie-tca> Maybe micahg will get a chance to look at it today/tomorrow
<Unit193> s/t(/t)/
<charlie-tca> go ahead and add it if you want to.
<Unit193> I will, it's "my" bug
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sorry, couldn't make it to the meeting
<charlie-tca> No problem. 
<charlie-tca> Next meeting is October 23, 22:00 UTC to elect project lead
<ochosi> yup, noted :)
<Unit193> You already guessed I couldn't make it, but I'm not as needed as head of artwork ;)
<charlie-tca> Yup
<charlie-tca> I stumbled through it the best I could
<ochosi> Unit193: ah, i'm only a humble contributor, i'm not even officially a member of anything ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Well, you do well anyway! I'm sure you're a member of Xubuntu ;)
<charlie-tca> All you guys need to join https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users so you can vote!
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yup, i did that a few days ago
<charlie-tca> Oh, then you are a member of something... ;)
<ochosi> hah - touchÃ©!
<Unit193> I'm on there also, just not in -team
<charlie-tca> -team has higher requirements that -user, have to contribute for a while, make the wiki page, then we get to talk about you
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, theoretically i have all that, but i guess i'd need to be approved as an ubuntu-member by a loco first, right?
<Unit193> I understand. That's why for a while I didn't try to add it, I wouldn't think I am now, just making it clear I do want to help
<charlie-tca> loco or board or mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> oh, and project lead
<ochosi> rly? but then i'd only be a xubuntu team member, not a ubuntu member, right?
<ochosi> (i was kinda considering that for being able to post to the planet with artwork updates)
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> Yeah, to post to planet you have to ubuntu member
<charlie-tca> You can do that through a loco, or through the membership boards
<ochosi> yeah, i remember looking at the meeting schedules the last few months, but it was never possible for me to attend
<charlie-tca> ah, that is an issue still.
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<Unit193> I'll be wanting to go for that at some point
<micahg> charlie-tca: I was unaware that locos can grant membership, I thought that was only through an RMB
<Unit193> Same here
<charlie-tca> The loco council can grant membership, I think. So can IRC council.
<micahg> AFAIK, these are the possible routes to Ubuntu membership: RMB, DMB, IRC council, Kubuntu Council, Edubuntu Council, Mythbuntu something
<micahg> ah, loco council...
<charlie-tca> Sorry, maybe loco council can not do it yet, but I thought that was changed now
<charlie-tca> I know Xubuntu can't give membership
<micahg> not listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil
<micahg> charlie-tca: do you want that ability?
<charlie-tca> Used to be so easy to remember... membership boards 
<charlie-tca> micahg: not until Xubuntu has it's own council in place and working
<micahg> well, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Mythubuntu are all delegates of the DMB WRT membership
<charlie-tca> It is too much for one or two to be granting membership
<micahg> ah, Ubuntu Desktop is another delegate
<charlie-tca> I think it is enough to say "appear at the membership board, we will support you there"
<micahg> Unit193: so, you probably want a regional board: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards
<charlie-tca> There is a list under Other venues for obtaining Membership on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<micahg> sure, but unless it's an IRC or forums membership, an RMB seems appropriate in this case
<Unit193> micahg: That's probable. Someone told me IRC membership was their guess :P
<Unit193> (When the time comes that is)
<micahg> Unit193: AIUI, your contributions are mainly testing/bug filing, right?
<ochosi> meh, meeting was today... :/ (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA)
<charlie-tca> You can go to any of the boards that you want to. You do not have to go to the one for the area you are in. 
<Unit193> micahg: Here? Yes, but that's not the only team I'm in (I would link wiki/LP, but no need for that) Not much bug filing TBH
<micahg> yep, that's true
<ochosi> charlie-tca: right, didn't know that
<micahg> Unit193: ok, well, I'm happy to help direct you to the right place
<charlie-tca> It's easier to make the one that meets when you have time, instead of the area
<Unit193> micahg: Thanks! I try not to bother you since you're one of the devs :)  (Also, don't think I would be accepted at this time)
<micahg> Unit193: I think I've gotten better about telling people when I'm too busy, so feel free to ask
<Unit193> Well, we're on the subject, may as well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193 https://launchpad.net/~unit193 
<micahg> Unit193: 6 months sustained contribution that benefits the project is the minimum
<micahg> Unit193: yeah, sounds like either IRC or RMB would be a good fit once you have 6 months + testimonials
<Unit193> micahg: Aye, but you have to be able to sell yourself well. I have been in here and other channels since March
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Do we have October on the testing doc? I don't see it there, but it could be the computer acting odd
<charlie-tca> Unit193: no, I haven't added it yet. We can add the tests to September for now
<Unit193> And we still do need them
<charlie-tca> I have many things to try and get done today and tomorrow
<Unit193> Ah, sorry. Page didn't fully load so it stopped at Oktober 2nd
<charlie-tca> No problem. Better to ask than not to know
<Unit193> Anything I can help with?
<charlie-tca> We add a full week of the next month to each page
<charlie-tca> no, not really
<charlie-tca> I just have a ton to do the last couple of weeks of the release cycle
<Unit193> Heh, I bet
<charlie-tca> I also have accessibility to get ready too, so it adds to the list
<charlie-tca> well, I got to go eat tonight.
<charlie-tca> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-04
<GridCube> good night
<GridCube> sooo, next meeting is the 23?
<GridCube> D:
<Unit193> Emm.
<Unit193> Next meeting is October 23, 22:00 UTC to elect project lead
<GridCube> its not been updated on the channel topic
<Unit193> charlie-tca or micahg: Topic?
<Unit193> Just noticed that too
<GridCube> :) i had a test today so i couldnt come 
<Unit193> I missed it myself, and I can't vote at the next oen
<Unit193> You still want the tests done on your site?
<Unit193> If so, link me?
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XTCv2.html
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> what do you think about it?
<Unit193> It's not great if I have a test finish right at 00:00
<GridCube> oh, yes... should i allow people to change the date? 
<GridCube> i could
<Unit193> Well, there may be problems with that, charlie is the person telling you what he needs, no?
<GridCube> not really XD
<Unit193> (And yes, I have finished past 00:00 before :P )
<GridCube> he said what he wanted back in the day, since then im doing it all by myself XD
<GridCube> but i need feedback to know that im doing things right
<Unit193> I had a few comments, but that's the only one I remember
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> i added a way to remove duplicated entries from the admin area
<GridCube> :P because there is an Ã¼bber admin area
<Unit193> I've had to go and change mine before, will I be able to change my own
<Unit193> ?
<GridCube> no :(
<GridCube> but you can ask an admin to do it, or add a comment stating why the previous is wrong and the admin will delete it
<Unit193> Hmmm.... So I'll have to restrict my idiotness
<GridCube> giving people the power to delete entries is dangerous
<Unit193> I agree, that's why I was asking about my own, but that's fine to ignore
<GridCube> i could make a "password" field so people will be able to delete entries if they added a password for themselfs
<Unit193> Would that expire after 3 days?
<GridCube> i don't think i know how to do that, if i do that i would be permanent
<Unit193> Alright... Might be best to talk to madnick maybe?
<GridCube> maybe
<Unit193> I think those were my comments :P
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Beta2 released | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC - Election for Project Lead | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<Unit193> Thank you majic fairy
<Unit193> s/j/g/
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<GridCube> good night charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Hello, GridCube 
<GridCube> :) how are you?
<charlie-tca> Doing fine, sir. And how are you?
<charlie-tca> Topic change the day of the meeting? That's asking a lot ;)
<Unit193> Well, I'll wait a week or two next time ;)
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> im fine, doing midterm tests this week
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> today it was Automation of Information Centers, and in two days is Information Resources on Global Networks :D, gods i love my classes names
<charlie-tca> They sound fun
<charlie-tca> Unit193: Thanks for reminding me to change the date
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Your welcome, but it was also GridCube 
<charlie-tca> I really want as much response as we can get for nominations and elections
<charlie-tca> GridCube: thank you too, then
<GridCube> :) your welcome
<GridCube> so i was talking to Unit193 about my interface :P
<GridCube> and he proposed that users should be able to delete their own entries
<Unit193> Might be handy, but the day is more to look at
<GridCube> so i was wondering on ways to allow poeple to delete entries by adding an extra box where they can add a "password" so if they feel the need to delete they can do it by entering said password that no one else should be able to know
<charlie-tca> So, you are thinking each person that enters data would delete/change their own entries only?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> given that they fill the password fiel
<GridCube> d
<charlie-tca> Considering that we started with something anyone could do anything to, including changing the form itself, why not?
<GridCube> dunno :) i think its a pretty good idea
<charlie-tca> As long as they can not change someone elses data, I think that would be a good thing to have
<GridCube> :) if you don't know other peoples password then you wouldnt be able to alter anyones else data
<GridCube> I can make it happen :P but not this week, studying and all
<Unit193> Or you could do a random password to be more strong
<GridCube> Unit193, i could, but people would have to remember it
<GridCube> so it would make much sense
<charlie-tca> GridCube: Sounds good to me
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> Make it happen when you can
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> awesome
<Unit193> Make it so
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> thank you for giving me this chance charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> You are most welcome
<Unit193> I couldn't help that. You're doing great
<GridCube> this is the very first time i work doing something lit this :D
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu succeeds if people succeed
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> thank you, i hope it will be useful
<charlie-tca> I appreciate your efforts
<GridCube> :) I appreciate your appreciation 
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> Thanks.
<GridCube> well food and sleep is ahead :)
<charlie-tca> We all keep trying... :)
<charlie-tca> Good night, then. I am also gone very soon.
<GridCube> :) see you when we see again :)
<Unit193> Reminds me. I should always remember to check NS for EMailMemos before I send one
<charlie-tca> I never remember how to check for memos, so I have to hope I don't have any
<Unit193> MemoServ gives you a notice until you read it
<charlie-tca> I see.
<charlie-tca> Well, got to go get some sleep now. Good night.
<madnick> I was thinking, all GPL'd software could technically go into Ubuntu right? It's just a question if they want it in?
<knome> http://shimmerproject.org/x1110/
<knome> if anybody want to use the countdown banners, even if we didn't get them to the ubuntu servers...
<knome> (the official ubuntu countdown banners aren't yet up either)
<knome> pleia2, ?
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/OneiricCountdownBanner
<knome> that's just the ideas, not the actual banners that change themselves day to day in the same location
<knome> well, people have added their own stuff, yeah
<Unit193> I know
<knome> but before it's been on ubuntu servers
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/
<knome> for usecase :P
<Unit193> http://thisisthecountdown.com/ As close as they got :P
<knome> hehe
<knome> wait
<knome> but, eh, that's different
<knome> you can't embed that to your website
<Unit193> Nope
<davmor2> Unit193: there was an Embedded one posted to planet.ubuntu.com at one point
<Unit193> Didn't know that part
<davmor2> Unit193: http://www.projblog.com/?p=3525
<Unit193> Hmmm... That's not official though, is it?
<knome> yep, but that's as unofficial as our stuff.
<knome> Unit193, as i said, there is no embeddable, official, banner.
<knome> Unit193, not for ubuntu, and not for xubuntu.
<Unit193> knome: Exactly, but there should be by now :/
<knome> Unit193, exactly.
<Unit193> Heh, you updated with embed code :P
<knome> yeah, thought that would be nice
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/
<madnick> :>
<madnick> Finally something to put on my home page :P
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<charlie-tca>  * unseeded universe final freeze will be on Oct. 11 at 1200 UTC
<madnick> not oversized anymore
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> We should thank micahg and mr_pouit for that
 * micahg did nothing
 * micahg thinks it's something Ubuntu did
<charlie-tca> It's magic
<charlie-tca> Our images grow and shrink by themselves, sometimes ;)
 * mr_pouit did nothing either
<charlie-tca> it's magic :)
<charlie-tca> dropped from 702MB to 693MB overnight
<charlie-tca> We are very appreciative to whatever happened!
<madnick> todays image cannot install, the live one
<madnick> what does one do, about bugs like that, it will be a duplicate
<madnick> should i file it anyways?
<charlie-tca> Is there a bug on file already? What is failing
<madnick> TypeError in Ubiquity
<charlie-tca> There shouldn't be any other "fail to install" open bugs, so it should not be a duplicate, unless someone opened one today
<madnick> okay
<davmor2> madnick: drop into desktop and do ubuntu-bug ubiquity  also it maybe worth you talking to ev and cjwatson on #installer too
<madnick> okay, nothing shows up on this for "xubuntu", so ill report it
<madnick> davmor2: okay :)
<madnick> On the bright side, live session works nicely :)
<madnick> bug 867620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867620 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu failed to install, Ubiquity crashed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867620
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Will try to confirm it
<madnick> charlie-tca: i've been wondering, when it says "LiveCD" does it mean live session? Or does it mean install from live session?
<charlie-tca>  liveCD is live session, yes
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> desktop cd means install either from live session or menu of that cd
<madnick> So if I fill out the testing form, it should be LiveCD = fine today, but Desktop Image = fail?
<charlie-tca> right
<madnick> oki
<charlie-tca> two tests, one pass and one fail
<pleia2> knome: yeah, the countdown banners were supposed to be updated last week, nothing happened (and the thisisthecountdown.com site isn't counting down to the release, it's something else)
<madnick> wow, they didn't spare the words about the Ubuntu release :P
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> They have about 4 countdown url's now, and none of them are correct to the release date
<charlie-tca> They said at least one of them is for system76 to release a new computer, though
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/
<madnick> hehe
<madnick> I have not had anything in my apache folder for ages :P
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> pleia2: this is supposed to be the actual countdown site now:
<charlie-tca> http://thisisthefinalcountdown.com/
<davmor2> charlie-tca: nice
<pleia2> yeah, I saw that yesterday :)
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, it is not correct either, since the release is Oct 13, which really is more than 7 days
<pleia2> they aren't wrong, they just aren't counting down to release
<pleia2> I suspect they're counting down to a device, maybe some shiny ARMM thing :)
<pleia2> -M
<charlie-tca> I see. 
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> No one seems to really know
<pleia2> no, it's all a big secret
<madnick> Ubuntu tablet :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: Download updates and 3rd party software checked?
<madnick> charlie-tca: nope, nothing
<madnick> I figured there wont be any updates on the daily image since it was just released
<charlie-tca> You didn't click to migrate data?
<charlie-tca> Installing here
<madnick> I did this one in virtualbox
<charlie-tca> The install is working on hardware
<madnick> oh
<madnick> Have you got by selecting passwords?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> I am looking at the firefox/thunderbird page of the slideshow
<madnick> i think it took about 3-5 minutes
<madnick> then it crashed
<charlie-tca> booting vbox, will try there
<charlie-tca> madnick: what did you run before the installer?
<madnick> nothing
<madnick> I booted into the installer
<madnick> directly
<madnick> then after that i tried live session
<charlie-tca> crashed on hardware
<charlie-tca> Do we know if the alternate images work today?
<charlie-tca> Hm, wonder if losing 9MB on the desktop images makes it fail?
<Pjotr> lightdm-gtk-greeter has been updated today (fix released): https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/862427
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 862427 in Light Display Manager "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not set translation domain" [Medium,Fix committed]
<madnick> Yeah
<Pjotr> This has solved the translation problem largely, but not entirely. There are still three untranslated strings: 'Password', 'Guest Account' and 'Other...'
<charlie-tca> There is a fix for the crash, should be tomorrow
<Pjotr> Has this something to do with comment #3 by Sebastien Bacher, about gtkbuilder .ui? See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/862427/comments/3
<madnick> Pjotr: the Guest Account is hardcoded
<madnick> IIRC
<madnick> and Password is not translatable
<Pjotr> madnick: but it should be... how can that be repaired?
<madnick> The "Guest account" is tricky
<madnick> ill look into it more
<Pjotr> madnick: thanks!
<madnick> "1, "Guest Account",
<madnick> yeah
<madnick> not sure how to fix that
<charlie-tca> Not sure it can be, since that is a user name, isn't it?
<madnick> Thing is, its not mandatory for it to show IIRC; therfor its not in theui file
<madnick> Same with "Other"
<madnick> but "password" is easily fixable
<madnick> Pjotr: a translation file, do you have an example of one?
<Pjotr> Be right back, my wife has served dinner... I'll see to it in 45minutes
<charlie-tca> madnick: tomorrow's images should work
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> Yes, Seb's comment #3 on the lightdm bug says the Password string is marked as not translatable, which which means it will not be translated
<madnick> I dont see a simple solution to this :)
<madnick> Unless one reads the data from the translation file
<madnick> Because it is hardcoded
<madnick> Maybe we could ask Robert Achell
<charlie-tca> Then it probably is not going to happen for Oneiric. We are really down to critical fixes now
<madnick> :(
<charlie-tca> They plan to start publishing the final image candidates for smoketesting friday, that leaves very little time to fix things now
<madnick> yeah
<madnick> charlie-tca: if guest account is enabled, does it get a locale specific name?
<madnick> Like if you choose something other than english
<madnick> I dont even know if its a specific account or how it works 
<charlie-tca> I don't really know
<charlie-tca> I believe if the Guest Account is a user name, it is going to be hardcoded guest as a username, since translating that would require a ton of user names 
<madnick> true
<charlie-tca> But, I do not know if that is a true user name or not
<Pjotr> OK, I'm back.... I read all further entries, and I understand that this problem won't be solved in Oneiric.
<Pjotr> A pity, but it was late in the day...
<Pjotr> I'm glad that most of the problem was solved, though. In 12.04 LTS everything will be allright. :-)
<charlie-tca> Yes, we have to hope it all gets ironed out. At least we got lightdm usable this time
<Pjotr> I'm pretty satisfied up till now. Xubuntu 11.10 looks rock solid already on my test machine
<Pjotr> Great job! :-)
<charlie-tca> Thank you from all the developers
<charlie-tca> alternate image installs good today
<Olbi> is it possible to have cd with text and gui install?
<charlie-tca> I suppose you could make one. It would probably have to include both alternate and desktop images
<charlie-tca> since there are changes when the installer changes
<charlie-tca> Olbi: might download a Ubuntu dvd and see how they work. I think they have both installers on it.
<Olbi> now, I download todays livecd 64bit and install it on computer to tests, it is upgradable to last changes after install?:P
<charlie-tca> yes, just do upgrades
<charlie-tca> updates, rather
<charlie-tca> As long as you update it, it will be at the same level as the daily images
<jarnos> charlie-tca, I have long had the problem that "not all updates can be installed". Is it harmful to do a partial upgrade?
<charlie-tca> What are using to do those updates?
<jarnos> charlie-tca,  Update manager
<charlie-tca> I use 'sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' daily in terminal, and I no updates being held back
<charlie-tca> partial upgrades can be harmful, depending on packages are being upgraded at the time.
<jarnos> charlie-tca, update manager does not show in which way the upgrade would be partial.
<charlie-tca> It should list every package, with check marks on the ones being upgraded
<charlie-tca> Without knowing what is being held back, it is not possible to know if it will be harmful or not.
<charlie-tca> I do not use update-manager to do upgrades in development releases. It breaks too often
<micahg> breakage in update-manager should be a bug
<charlie-tca> breakage is a bug, but the fact remains. It still breaks too often in development releases to be reliable
 * micahg wishes aptitude worked properly with multiarch
<Olbi> I have pink color during first display of ubiquity :P
<Olbi> on the top
<Olbi> of window
<charlie-tca> Is that during installing?
<charlie-tca> Are you installing direct from the cd menu or from a live session?
<Olbi> direct from pendrive :P
<Olbi> and choose from boot menu install, no livecd mode
<Olbi> but it isnt alternate
<Olbi> it is livecd install
<Olbi> and are problems with translating :P
<Olbi> for my language :]
<charlie-tca> right, those are missing headers, bug 840094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<charlie-tca> translations are in work, I don't know how far they will get
<Olbi> not that means, there is good translating into my lang, but some text is in english and with some others strings :P
<Olbi> I wait for approve to polish team in Xfce
<Olbi> but dont know when it will be, I want good translated Xubuntu for polish before it will release :)
<charlie-tca> Installer is Ubiquity, not Xfce. If they don't get fixed, it is a bug against ubiquity
<Olbi> so translate to ubiqutiy is another thing ;p
<charlie-tca> yeah, that's done through launchpad translations
<Olbi> I wonder why teams of Red Hat, canonical and Debian dont fusion and create one, universal installer for all distribution :P
<Olbi> Installation fail :(
<genii-around> Olbi: There was something before, "Click N Run" or CNR for short, but it never caught on
<pleia2> charlie-tca: heh, I'm pretty sure that to avoid the burnout/disinterest/etc from ubuntu is why I came here
<pleia2> (I didn't quite realize that until now)
<charlie-tca> Olbi: oh, I know that bug. it's bug 867620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867620 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Xubuntu failed to install, Ubiquity crashed" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867620
<charlie-tca> pleia2: Sometimes that is what it takes, though
<pleia2> charlie-tca: it worked out well for me, but I suddenly realize that my solution to the problem won't help others (or the ubuntu community in general)
 * pleia2 back2work
<charlie-tca> Yeah, but you got to take of *you* first. 
<charlie-tca> Olbi: I am sorry, I should have remembered when you said you were trying to install from today's images. 
<charlie-tca> Tomorrow's images should be working again
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-05
<knome> pleia2, well, we have at least something now!! :)
<sandra_> G'day my fellow Xubuntu inmates :-)
<sandra_> I trust you all are doing well .
<sandra_> I am new to Xubuntu and too linux and I hope someone can be kind enough to help me.
<sandra_> My son just installed Xubuntu on my laptop . I followed the instructions he left for updating my new OS .
<sandra_> But unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the Oneiric repositories 
<sandra_> Is it me or anyone else experiencing problems connecting to the oneiric repositories ?
<Unit193> I haven't, but it's best to ask support questions in a support channel :P  (#ubuntu+1)
<Unit193> More people to help you there
<sandra_> Unit193, Oh I'm sorry thank you.
<Unit193> No problem
<Pjotr> madnick: Hello, I have a request for the bug ticket about lightdm-gtk-greeter: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/862427
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 862427 in Light Display Manager "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not set translation domain" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Pjotr> Can you revert the status from "fix released" into "confirmed"? This because there are still three untranslated items. I have tried changing the status myself, but I'm not authorized to do so.
<Pjotr> Reverting the status to "confirmed" will prevent this final issue from being forgotten.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<genii-around> Well, morning, anyhow
<Unit193> Howdy
<charlie-tca> Images are working today
<charlie-tca> Olbi: You should grab today's image. It will install instead of crash
<madnick> charlie-tca: Could you look into what Pjotr said? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/05/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<madnick> I don't have authority to do that 
<charlie-tca> I will comment on the bug report. Those three items are going to need a new bug report, since they are marked as not translatable. I explained that to him already, I think
<madnick> Oh okay
<madnick> I don't even think its a bug to be honest, those greeters are meant to serve as examples as far as i know
<charlie-tca> and the second question looking at that log is "who/why did anyone install oneiric on a new users computer?"
<Unit193> Didn't want to wait just over a week to update? You recommended Natty to me before it was released (Worked best, not saying you shouldn't)
<madnick> there is a similar question in #xubuntu right now :P
<Unit193> Yep
<Unit193> "Will there be issues" :P
<madnick> Todays images worked flawlessly however, but I dont know what happens if one upgrades to tomorrows 
<charlie-tca> The issue I have is if someone installs the development version for a new user, they need to be available to answer new user questions.
<charlie-tca> Those users in Ubuntu+1 will raise a lot of fuss about questions that a user using development versions should already know the answer to.
<charlie-tca> Heh, yeah, I guess yesterday's answer would have been "yes", huh?
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: good evening (or whatever your timezone is)! This issue hasn't been solved yet: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/799268
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 799268 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default screensaver should be black screen, not random" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Pjotr> Will the solution make it into Oneiric?
<charlie-tca> Why should it be black instead of a screensaver?
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu threw the screensaver out completely now, shouldn't we follow what they do?
<Unit193> What do they use??
<charlie-tca> None
<charlie-tca> Gnome3 decided turning the monitor is much better for everyone
<charlie-tca> Gnome3 decided turning the monitor *off* is much better for everyone
<charlie-tca> Of course, they do let you choose how long to have it on... 1 min, 3 min, 30 min, 1 hour
<charlie-tca> Note ^ ^ no option to say leave it on, either
<Pjotr> The reason is, that some screensavers cause crashes on some hardware. The default screensaver should be failsafe, i.e. black screen. Or be switched off alltogether....
 * Unit193 is glad he uses Xfce
<charlie-tca> Pjotr: I don't think it is very much effort for the user to reset the screensaver to whatever they want.
<Pjotr> But it makes such a bad impression, when the system locks up because of a heavy 3D screensaver
<charlie-tca> If it was my preference, it would be a single screensaver, perhaps fish
<charlie-tca> I would think if you know that in advance, you can advise them to set it to a single screensaver?
<Pjotr> at least when people *choose* a 3D monster, then they wouldn't be so put off as by a random 
<Pjotr> the default should be failsafe
<Pjotr> imho
<charlie-tca> Your opinion is allowed. Perhaps we will discuss this again for the next release. 
<Pjotr> That's as much as I can ask for. :-)
<Pjotr> I have a request for the bug ticket about lightdm-gtk-greeter: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/862427
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 862427 in Light Display Manager "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not set translation domain" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Unit193> Disabling a few/all GL screensavers could help
<Pjotr> Can you revert the status from "fix released" into "confirmed"? This because there are still three untranslated items. I have tried changing the status myself, but I'm not authorized to do so.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I think you should file a new bug for those three "non-translatable" items left
<Pjotr> OK, I'll make a new one and inform you about it...
<charlie-tca> please, and I can then mark it and push it, but it won't happen in oneiric, you know.
<charlie-tca> The issue with the GL screensavers is they are part of xscreensaver, and we are limited in what is allowed.
<Pjotr> OK, here's the new bug report about the greeter: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/868613
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 868613 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter in Xubuntu, has three untranslatable items" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Will make sure it is noticed
<Pjotr> Thanks!
<Unit193> charlie-tca: You add it or shall I?
<charlie-tca> Oh, you can add it. I will triage the report and mark it to get it done in P
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Got it in. I got stuck in support an a PM
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<Unit193> I know how to update that one ;)
<charlie-tca> and now... I present the Precise Pangolin, destined to become Xubuntu 12.04 LTS 
<charlie-tca> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
<Unit193> Gaaa!!!
<charlie-tca> Much easier to pronounce the Oneiric Ocelot
<Unit193> Dangit, I was wishing for Pink Panther ;)  But really, needed something to do with a Penguin
<charlie-tca> I was hoping for Penguin, too
<charlie-tca> hm, I find Precise much easier to spell too
<madnick> I never heard about an Ocelot nor a Pangolin :P
<charlie-tca> but couldn't it have been Precise Penguin?
<Unit193> ^^
<charlie-tca> madnick: that's one of the greatest things about Ubuntu. You get to know all kinds of animals you would not even think about :)
<madnick> indeed :) I read the wiki suggestion page just a couple of days ago
<madnick> and it listed alot of animals unheard of by me
<Unit193> But P!! P was the one chance for Penguin, the linux LOGO
<charlie-tca> which might be why it is not used, though. It avoids having Ubuntu become linux
<charlie-tca> which it has been accused of before. Ubuntu == linux, but linux != Ubuntu alone
<madnick> I heard it today :)
<charlie-tca> and I suspect using penguin would have created huge issues about that
<madnick> Its hard to explain however, to people
<madnick> People tend to think "Mac, Linux, Windows"
<Unit193> Eh, that's the problem with people
<madnick> I said, to not compilacte things: Ubuntu builds upon Linux
<charlie-tca> Yes, but the argument has been made already that Ubuntu and Linux should not be the same. People need to know there are many variations of linux to choose from.
<madnick> I think it may acctually be good for people to think of a certain distro as "Linux", because wI know friends who have called me, "Hi, I was going to try out Linux, but I cant find theirhomepage"
<Unit193> In a way, yes
<madnick> I have quite alot of stories about people and Linux, my friend works in an eletronics store, but I dont want it logged :P
<Unit193> Yep, that's what I hate most about the Ubuntu channels :P
<Unit193> It's also what offtopic is for
<madnick> true
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-06
<GridCube> good evening :)
<madnick> knome: 
<madnick> Image corrupt or truncated: http://shimmerproject.org/x1110/countdown.php
<Unit193> Yep
<Unit193> I tried to ping you yesterday (Or I tried not to forget)
<knome> hmm.
<knome> :)
<knome> i'll look at it.
<Unit193> Thanks
<madnick> :)
<knome> Unit193, madnick: that should work now.
<knome> sorry for the downtime
<madnick> cool
<madnick> oh i had to empty the cache :P
<madnick> wierd because it shouldnt happen, since the image is different
<knome> it should, because it's serving it from the same url
<knome> i'm just outputting the png through php
<madnick> yes but its php
<madnick> hehe
<knome> yeah, but the filetype is actually PNG for that .php file... ;)
<madnick> oh i see
<knome> that's to make it work everyday with the same URL
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<knome> probably should do some cache stuff anyway
<knome> :|
<madnick> morning
<Unit193> Howdy charlie-tca 
 * Unit193 goes back to madnick's site
<madnick> It could be since it is an img tag
<madnick> Dont know how webkit handles that
<knome> should not cache that anymore
<madnick> Been so long since I used GD, I'm working on a new thing, but its just gonna be JS I think
<knome> that's not GD nor JS
<madnick> is not GD?
<knome> nope.
<madnick> :o
<knome> i'm just sending headers for the browser
<knome> and passing through the image i want
<madnick> Oh
<knome> http://shimmerproject.org/x1110/1110_countdown_7.png is the 'actual' image
<knome> http://shimmerproject.org/x1110/1110_countdown_6.png for tomorrow's image
<madnick> oh
<knome> http://shimmerproject.org/x1110/countdown_src.txt
<knome> the php file :)
<knome> except the > should be < in row 7 :D
<knome> fixed in php and txt
<madnick> I want to suggest Logisim to be put into the repository, but I see how it may be a problem with it being a Java app
<Unit193> Just say it works well with OpenJDK ;)
<madnick> :D
<madnick> I dont think it does sadly
<madnick> I could try it again
<charlie-tca> hm, perfect day... first snow of the season, snowing 3 hours, sticking to the roads
<Unit193> Danit... It's warm here
<madnick> I fear snow here aswell, in the morning it was only 5C
<charlie-tca> Was 80 F two days ago, now it is 32 F/ 0C
<madnick> Last year on the first snow day, I woke up at ~12, and my motorbike was snowed in, I had to go out digging :(
<madnick> This year I put it away the 1st :P
<charlie-tca> Heh, wasn't supposed to be snow today
<knome> Unit193, you are opping #lubuntu?
<Unit193> knome: Yessir!
<Unit193> +-offtopic
<knome> Unit193, oki. if i ever decide to troll #lubuntu, i'll make sure you are not online first.
<knome> ;)
<knome> ERR, i mean
<knome> good to know
<Unit193> Just so you know, right after you said that, someone joined both channels (I know that *someone* does before I look) :P
<Unit193> /abr knome 
<knome> :P
<madnick> charlie-tca: did blueman break for you today aswell?
<madnick> It broke on all my installs i did today
<madnick> There was however quite the few reports so i did not send mine
<charlie-tca> Yes, it will break until we the fix in for it
<madnick> I wonder if this has anything to do with bluetooth incapable computers, since it never crashed on my hardware
<charlie-tca> That could be
<micahg> blueman won't configure on my armel machine, I haven't had time to dig into it
<Olbi> I have clouds with sun :D
<Olbi> and 15 - 20 C
<Olbi> I had it 3 hours ago :P
<Olbi> now is dark and I dringdark honey beer :P
<Olbi> some1 have the cover of cd box which were sent?
<Carl301> hi
<madnick> hi
<Carl301> I had Ubuntu and now is Xubuntu. How do  i return it back ?
<charlie-tca> Carl301: you choose Ubuntu session at login
<charlie-tca> Olbi: cover?
<madnick> sudo aptitude remove xubuntu-desktop
<madnick> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/puregnome
<Carl301> Thanks
<charlie-tca> but it is not necessary to remove Xubuntu completely, you can have all things installed and still use Ubuntu
<madnick> Just curious, why do you want to remove it?
<Carl301> ok
<Carl301> no, I dont want to remove it. I wamt to see the gnome desktop 
<madnick> oh okay :)
<madnick> Sorry for confusing you :(
<Carl301> how do i do it ?
<madnick> When you log out, you can select a Session
<madnick> and then you can just pick GNOME 
<Carl301> hold on please
<madnick> it may be called Ubuntu Classic
<madnick> when I think about it
<madnick> Im sorry, not used Ubuntu for a while
<micahg> that was in natty
<Carl301> when I do it i receive this message: Could not find the Gnome installation. How do i fix it ?
<madnick> charlie-tca: what version of Ubuntu do you use?
<Carl301> 9.04
<charlie-tca> So, one more time. Pick ubuntu session, if you don't want unity or don't have 3d, pick classic session
<charlie-tca> If it Oneiric, pick Ubuntu or ubuntu-2d
<charlie-tca> if it is 9.04, it is obsolete and you can't fix it if it missing something
<Carl301> What do you advice me to do ?
<charlie-tca> new installation using 10.04 for long term, or 11.04 for the next year
<Carl301> ok. Thanks for your help
<Carl301> Bye
<charlie-tca> 10.04 is supported until April 2013, which is probably what you want
<Carl301> ok Bye
<charlie-tca> madnick: I use Xubuntu 11.10, but I have tested everyting Ubuntu and Xubuntu since 8.04
<madnick> I see, I just understood what he said as: "I want to remove xubuntu-desktop"
<charlie-tca> Yeah, what he really wants it update his 9.04, which is not possible
<micahg> well, you can upgrade 9.04 -> 9.10 -> 10.04
<charlie-tca> Not without knowing what you are doing and how to do that. Since both 9.04 and 9.10 are EOL, you have to manually update sources each time
<micahg> there should be instructions on help.ubuntu.com for tha
<charlie-tca> micahg: to the best of my recall, the same person was in about 6 months ago asking the same thing, and was given all the information to do the upgrades
<Olbi> charlie-tca: cover of the cd box, hich were sent some years ago by Canonical :)
<charlie-tca> Oh, Sorry, I never had one.
<charlie-tca> Olbi: but there is stuff at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing that you could print out
<Olbi|2> charlie-tca: there isn't xubuntu cover :P
<charlie-tca> Oh, well, Canonical never shipped Xubuntu either
<charlie-tca> Just replace the logo with Xubuntu on one of the available covers
<Olbi> hmmm, forgot it :P
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-07
<GridCube> niihao :)
<GridCube> today we have to update the ubuntu tracker correct?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : if possible, we need one of you available next week during testing this final candidate.
<charlie-tca> knome, pleia2 : time grows short for the website transfer. 
<charlie-tca> We will need a final release news bulletin, too, for Thursday.
<charlie-tca> Also will need to change the download page on the website Thursday
<charlie-tca> Testers : Images starting today are possible final images
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything on bug 840094 ? Do we need an ACK on it ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<pleia2> charlie-tca: yeah, need to find time to finish moving content over, and clean up what I've moved (and we're still waiting on code review and push of new revision from canonical)
<charlie-tca> Either way, we will need to update the download page for Xubuntu 11.10 on Thursday.
<pleia2> we may not make it for the wordpress launch on release day
<charlie-tca> I know. We do what we can, and if we don't have it yet, we give the users the best we can anyway.
<pleia2> but yes, certainly updating of the release page on drupal anyway :)
<pleia2> might not bother with screen shots this time around because it hasn't changed much
<charlie-tca> Agreed
<charlie-tca> I don't know that there are changes enough to be visible this time
<ochosi> pleia2: i'd suggest we wait with updating screenshots on the website until the move to wp has been made. feel free to ping me then and i can assist you with it
<pleia2> ochosi: great, thanks :)
<ochosi> pleia2: i for one also only updated the two necessary screeners in the install-slideshow (but in fact that was also partly due to the fact that i wanted to wait until thunderbird gets fixed [which it didn't in the end])
<charlie-tca> Oh, and a *very* rough draft of final release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/Final, would appreciate any help getting this one right
<charlie-tca> Feel free to delete and add a section if you need to to put your updates in.
<ochosi> k, i'll try to do my part (if i forget feel free to poke and remind me ;) )
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I would really appreciate any help getting them right
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah. we're pending on some issues with IS anyway.
<charlie-tca> Nice user comments about Xubuntu in general and gmusicbrowser in particular from a user in #xubuntu
<charlie-tca> He is very appreciative of all the effort 
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> he who?
<ochosi> nice :)
<charlie-tca> mario_
<pleia2> cool
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be around until Wed afternoon, hopefully more available than this week
 * micahg wonders if blueman is work on the images or if we really need another upload now
<micahg> otherwise we can SRU a bug fix version
<charlie-tca> We need someone with bluetooth to test if it is working. I don't have bluetooth here.
<charlie-tca> madnick: do we if the blueman crash is killing bluetooth?
<madnick> It doesnt crash on my hardware
<madnick> I cant test it
<charlie-tca> well, crap
<charlie-tca> micahg: is it possible the crash only happens if there is no bluetooth devices?
<micahg> sure, but that's bad too
<charlie-tca> yes, but will the upload fox that ?
<micahg> I haven't seen a crash, but then again, I haven't tried a clean install
<charlie-tca> It would be better if we can fix it, since it is very annoying to have it crash every login
<madnick> Well, if you reboot in VirtualBox, it doesnt seem to crash 
<madnick> But always after a clean install
<charlie-tca> My hardware installs that crash do it every login after it starts
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> But it is sporadic, it doesn't always happen that it crashes
<madnick> But its the DBUS blocking error?
<charlie-tca> I will install today to verify
<charlie-tca> micahg: I am okay with release noting the crash, since it is not everytime, nor every login
<charlie-tca> Unless we are certain we will not create new issues, I prefer to wait
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-08
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Beta2 released | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC - Election for Project Lead | Testing Oneiric Ocelot Final images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> at least the oneiric schedule has finally been updated to remove Release Candidate :)
<GridCube> so i installed the latest image on this machine
<GridCube> but its failing hard
<GridCube> i guess it has to do whit this machine in particular though
<charlie-tca> GridCube: hardware or vbox?
<charlie-tca> and which image?
<GridCube> hardware charlie-tca 
<GridCube> last night one
<charlie-tca> 32bit alternate, 32bit desktop, 64bit alternate, 64bit desktop, all images?
<GridCube> oh yes, 32bit alternate manual partition
<charlie-tca> The only one we haven't tried lately, too
<charlie-tca> Maybe you ran out of drive space?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> formated 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: question? where do we get the tests to run daily for the new tracker?
<charlie-tca> I can try it after the one I am installing now. 
<GridCube> i think its a hardware thing
<GridCube> because i reinstalled because this same thing was happening whit 11.04
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that would be my guess too
<GridCube> charlie-tca: you mean the schedule ?
<GridCube> for the new tracker?
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> you update it from the admin area
<charlie-tca> The one coming up blank this week
<charlie-tca> So, we add the tests for each day manually?
<GridCube> yes
 * charlie-tca smacks head
<charlie-tca> I guess I knew that...
<charlie-tca> GridCube: my guess would be out-of-date video card on that machine
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> so i will have to reinstall xp here?
<GridCube> :(
<charlie-tca> I had one here did that, though, and I had to update the bios for it to work
<charlie-tca> which ain't easy on an old computer without windows
<charlie-tca> I will not install windows, I would get rid of the computer first, but then, I got a few extra here, too.
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> thats not an option
<charlie-tca> Yeah, sometimes the only option is Windows
<GridCube> charlie-tca: guess what, i installed gdm and the error stop
<charlie-tca> so, something in lightdm failing to work
<charlie-tca> but you said it did the same thing in 11.04, which uses gdm
<GridCube> yes i knoe
<GridCube> wich is weird
<charlie-tca> That's just weird, yup
<GridCube1> :/
<GridCube1> this is really weird
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah, I forgot. I am not seeing any blueman or bluetooth crashes here
<charlie-tca> micahg_, madnick :
<charlie-tca> no crashes for blueman or bluetooth on my no bluetooth system
<GridCube1> it crashed for me in this machine on the first boot, since then no more
<charlie-tca> seems to be a sporadic bug, maybe it is something in certain hardware causing it, since we don't see it in all hardware
<GridCube1> charlie-tca, sorry to bother you, but i keep thinking about what you asked me today about the new tracker and i still do not understend your question XD
<charlie-tca> I did not see any tests required all week, and wanted to know why
<charlie-tca> Test meant for today are:
<charlie-tca> Oh! noes! no schedule was added for today! 
<charlie-tca> all week
<GridCube1> oh yeah
<GridCube1> sorry about that, i schudeled the week you said we where gonna test and then stopped
<charlie-tca> starting tomorrow, we have the final images
<GridCube1> :D you can add some 
<GridCube1> to see how its done
<charlie-tca> yeah, now that I realized that is what needs to happen
<charlie-tca> I will add some for next week
<GridCube1> :)
<GridCube1> i could change the > Oh! noes! no schedule was added for today!  
<GridCube1> for > do all tests! ask on the irc channels!
<GridCube1> XD whit ! exclamation ! marks !
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I think it is fine for now
<charlie-tca> after next week, we don't test again until about November 25 or so
<charlie-tca> so, maybe the topic here will say that testers are on a break :)
<GridCube1> :D
<GridCube1> bbl 
<GridCube> so, for no apparent reason using gdm seems to have fixed all problems
<charlie-tca> heh
<piet> Hello, I'd like to report a fully succesful installation with the Xubuntu Oneiric daily build of yesterday. No problems whatsoever, during installation.
<charlie-tca> well, at least you got it fixed :)
<charlie-tca> Great
<charlie-tca> tomorrow, we start testing the final oneiric images
<Pjotr> piet = Pjotr now.  :P
<Pjotr> a patch for the lightdm greeter bug (untranslatable three items) has been submitted by a member of the Dutch Ubuntu community (Timo): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/868613
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 868613 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm-gtk-greeter in Xubuntu, has three untranslatable items" [Medium,Triaged]
<Pjotr> Too late for 11.10, but in time for 12.04
<charlie-tca> The bug has been marked as not possible in Oneiric, will happen for Precise
<charlie-tca> but of course, Dutch is not the only language needs to be translated for it?
<Pjotr> So it is... But in Precise it'll be allright. :-)
<Pjotr> I'll alert the other translators on the mailing list, when the three items have become translatable
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<Pjotr> One other translation related issue: Firefox in Xubuntu Oneiric (install with daily build of yesterday, fully updated) has no Dutch spell dictionary on board. It should...
<charlie-tca> We can't actually install dictionaries for every language. Can the user install one in Dutch?
<Pjotr> Yes, but it should come automatically, with the localization
<Pjotr> I remember a similar issue in an earlier Ubuntu version. Regression? I'll test it in Ubuntu as well.
<charlie-tca> I don't know if Xubuntu/Ubuntu or Mozilla is responsible for it, actually
<Pjotr> It should be part of the localized language packs. Anyway, I'll test it in Ubuntu as well. Possibly not a purely Xubuntu-related bug
<Pjotr> I'll let you know
<Pjotr> bye
<charlie-tca> bbl - got to do a bit of shopping
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-09
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<GridCube> good morning charlie-tca 
<madnick> morning guys 
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> micahg_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/836324
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 836324 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe: Merge blueman 1.22~bzr707-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<charlie-tca> micahg_: see the last comment... Blueman 1.23 is released and fixes many of the bugs
<charlie-tca> New images made it out finally, 24% of the image changed since October 7
<GridCube> im getting this error on oneiric http://pastebin.com/qctdffUn
<charlie-tca> GridCube: updates after an install?
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> Was that using the latest images?
<GridCube> tried to purge flash and got this http://pastebin.com/97Jhsj55
<charlie-tca> yeah
<GridCube> no, was last night's after an upgrade :/
<charlie-tca> Okay, edit /etc/apt/sources.list and remove any duplicate entry. You can just comment them
<charlie-tca> with a # in front
<charlie-tca> Then try running updates
<charlie-tca> again. That should fix it
<GridCube> I tried to install adobe-flashplugin from synaptic and it works now :/
<GridCube> :|
<GridCube> weird things that happen i guess
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> It just gets better?
<GridCube> yep
<GridCube> the more you know the more weird things that you can not explain happen
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I know
<charlie-tca> It seems the longer I stay around, the less I know now.
<GridCube> talking about that i will set up ssh on this machine now XD so i can mess whit it in case it gets bad again
<GridCube> :P thats reality charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> and then, someone asks something, and the answer just comes out. That makes it worth it.
<GridCube> hehehe
<GridCube> yes that too
<GridCube> when you say, just do this, and you write a long bash command XD
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah, that too
<micahg_> charlie-tca: I'll check with pitti later, it's very late to be updating...but I guess if we can try if we're willing to risk it not working
<charlie-tca> We could put get it for Precise, and then sru it, instead
<charlie-tca> well, must be late again. that doesn't seem like it made sense
<charlie-tca> We could sync it for Precise, and then sru it, instead
<charlie-tca> Since it does fix a lot of the bugs in Oneiric, SRU should be a valid option
<charlie-tca> I would trust that more than a hope today
<micahg_> yes, that's easy enough
<charlie-tca> We can deal with the bug reports for a month or so
<micahg> charlie-tca: I could 0-day SRU as well, but I won't be around on Thursday
<charlie-tca> I am hoping with 20-25% changed since the 7th, the images did not get broken
 * micahg will bbiab
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-01
<gooslap> Hi, is anyone online?
<Sysi> ssds work and should keep working for years even without any tweaking, it's world of choices you have problems with :)
<xnox> bug 1059083 not sure if this is lightdm problem or xubuntu specific.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059083 in ubiquity ""Log in automatically" choice does not work." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059083
<xnox> are you using lightdm?!
 * xnox is out of touch
<ochosi> yup, we are
<xnox> lightdm it is.
<ochosi> suprising that this doesn't work, shouldn't it simply do the same thing in ubuntu and xubuntu?
<astraljava> I suppose we had some settings for that, maybe something broke.
<Sysi> I think that worked for me..
<xnox> considering that my lightdm login is "funny" with massive spinning circles, I would not be surprised if it was lightdm regression.... or change of api..... or something like that.
<ochosi> xnox: does this affect ubuntu as well?
<Sysi> I used amd64
<xnox> ochosi: no clue. Haven't tested yet. Just going through my bug mail.
<knome> g'day
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hello elfy
 * elfy needs to get his around this qa thing - got somewhere simple for him to start?
<knome> astraljava is quite a simple person...
<elfy> :)
<knome> what is it what you are specifically wondering about?
<elfy> that'll be 2 of us then 
<elfy> what it is I'm supposed to be doing :D
<knome> heh, ok so:
<knome> first of all, make sure you announce mailing lists when we have milestone releases coming up
<elfy> yep
<knome> the second one is to attend the weekly QA meeting
<knome> i got to say i have no idea what time that is...
<knome> but astraljava will tell you
<elfy> ok - I can find out - I talk to balloons anyway 
<knome> looks like it's wednesdays 14UTC
<knome> and if there's something specific to report, report it back to us
<elfy> right - not too onerous then :)
<knome> no, not really
<knome> then there's this one thing
<knome> that we still need to get fixed
<knome> the weekly reports to the release team
<knome> i'm ok to do that, but that implies that people should really update the team reports
<elfy> ok
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001846.html
<knome> that's our last weekly mail, sent in august :P
<knome> but those are the things that we need to report
<knome> if you have ideas how we can make this reporting more effective..
<elfy> I'll have a think knome - so at present - people tell you and then you report to release team?
 * smartboyhw finds that the "not-sending-the-release-mail" isn
<knome> elfy, well, no...
<smartboyhw> that serious for Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio's problem is bigger:P
<knome> elfy, people doesn't tell me, and when we've sent the mail, the person who sent it finds out what has been done himself
<knome> elfy, astraljava has been sending those mails mostly
<elfy> ok
<knome> elfy, our last "team report", which would be *really useful* for this, is from 2011
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/
<smartboyhw> knome: Wow that is long
 * smartboyhw thinks the last "team report" for Studio is about 4 years ago:P
<elfy> knome: ok - I'll have a think about that then
<knome> elfy, i was thinking if something @IRC would work...
<elfy> yep probably - so the kind of thing that needs reporting is stuff that gets mentioned in meetings and from bugs etc
<elfy> I'll talk to astraljava 
<smartboyhw> elfy, this might be useful
<smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda/TeamTemplate
<elfy> ty
<knome> yep, that's the template
<knome> elfy, anyway, don't geel *obliged* to do it if you don't want to :)
<smartboyhw> elfy, you are luckier than me that knome got the testcases rewritten before you become QA contact, I have to do the tiring job:P
<elfy> oh - I'm happy to do it knome - I'd not have said I would if I didn't want to :)
<knome> elfy, ok, thanks :)
<elfy> welcome :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<elfy> knome: got my new machine - didn't need to worry about uefi etc - just moved the drives, turned it on and carried on as normal
<knome> hihi, good
<knome> laptop/desktop?
 * smartboyhw thinks UEFI is a bunch of **** developed by Microsoft who clearly does not know what is F/OSS
<elfy> desktop - hate laptops - always end up with cramp from the touchpad things lol
<elfy> was a barebones thing - no drives no OS
 * smartboyhw is using a laptop to do EVERYTHING including testing:P
<knome> they have their pros and cons
<elfy> yep 
<astraljava> What does elfy need to talk to me about?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, how to be a QA contact person:P
<knome> astraljava, qa meetings, probably sending mails to release team
<astraljava> knome: Aren't you sending those emails?
 * smartboyhw now sends mails to release team after getting scott's permission:P
<astraljava> But that's over on Studio's side.
<knome> astraljava, well, i should be sending, but seriously talking, we should get stuff in order before anybody can send those reliably
<knome> astraljava, i'm talking about team reporting
<astraljava> Hmm... yet another email template, then?
<knome> no, not anything like that
<knome> internal reporting
<knome> the one who sends the mail to release team should know what people have been up to
<knome> and shouldn't really do the detective work
<astraljava> Err... well, have fun trying to keep all that in mind.
<astraljava> They expect to have a list of bugs being worked on, for instance. Can you keep those numbers all in your head?
<knome> well exactly.
<knome> no, i can't
<astraljava> There you go then. :)
<astraljava> That's why my inbox exploded, cause I wanted to keep all bug mail during the week, until report was sent.
<knome> there should be a better way to track those bugs and items
<astraljava> Also, [release]-changes ML was damn easy to pick the changed packages from, too.
<knome> hmm?
<astraljava> If you come up with any, by all means.
<knome> i'm thinking the reporting could be tied to the work items tracking
<knome> because we need to do that anyway, and i can see how we benefit from that
<knome> if a work item is INPROGRESS, the team works on it, aight?
<astraljava> Not all bugs directly relate to a work item on blueprints.
<knome> that's true, but they should all be linked to the blueprints
<knome> and if their status isn't fix committed/fix released, they are still worked on, unless they are new/triaged or so, when they're still... new
<astraljava> I'm not at all sure you'd want to include all bugs to blueprints.
<astraljava> I know I wouldn't.
<astraljava> But you're... strange.
<knome> why wouldn't you link all bugs you are workig on that contribute towards a blueprint?
<knome> +n
<astraljava> Well I suppose then you'd have an obligatory "Improve QA" blueprint for every release.
<knome> not a problem: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-bugs
<astraljava> Ok. Somebody has to update that blueprint throughout the release, then, to make sure that every new bug gets added.
<astraljava> Volunteers?
<astraljava> Oh, I know.
<astraljava> ELFY!
<knome> i mean, creating and maintaining one more blueprint isn't too bad, if that means we'll get the team reports done
<knome> :P
<knome> no, i don't mean *any new bug in xubuntu*
<knome> because we don't need to track bugs we aren't working on
<astraljava> Those are the bugs I meant when I said I wouldn't want all bugs into blueprints.
<knome> if somebody starts looking at a bug, or is working on it, link it then
<astraljava> Oh.
<astraljava> Fine.
<knome> oh. yeah, i don't want them in blueprints too
<knome> s/too/either/
<astraljava> Ok. You know how Lionel will feel about this change in the process, right? :)
<knome> since we only need to report those we are working on, it's not too hard to track them under blueprints
<knome> yes, i know, but i've been managing the blueprints anyway
<knome> and i don't think it's a huge burden
<knome> if you have time to look at the bug, or work with it, maybe you will have time to link it, or tell somebody to do that
<astraljava> When you're battling 140+ bugs a release...
<knome> we haven't been reporting those bugs to the release team before
<knome> and i'm not sure what the policy should be on what is reported
<astraljava> I did, for a brief period of time, anyway. :)
<knome> yeah, thanks for that
<knome> but the list per mail wasn't >10
<knome> maybe i/we should talk with skaet
<astraljava> But I think I was pretty much alone in that. Don't think many teams shared that hobby with me.
<smartboyhw> Hey elgy astraljava is here
<knome> "why do we have to report these, since you can simply look at our work items tracker"
<smartboyhw> *oops hey elfy
<knome> if a bug isn't worth mentioning in a blueprint, why would it be worth mentioning in the mail to release team?
<knome> i mean, i can't see these *not* walking hand in hand
<astraljava> Oh it would totally eliminate the need to do that, if they _were_ actually tracked somewhere.
<astraljava> Currently _this was_ the tracking process.
<astraljava> ...or _is_, rather.
<astraljava> But then we're not really categorizing our bugs, either.
<astraljava> I'm pretty sure the release team is actually interested about release blocker bugs anyway.
<knome> +only
 * smartboyhw is sucking in all those contents:P
<astraljava> But since our work flow was lacking in this department (too?), it was clearer for me to report them all.
<knome> but, don't you agree that these two procedures are just duplicating each other?
<astraljava> Yea, I just said so a few lines above. :)
<knome> yep, so that one is sorted out
<astraljava> ACK
<knome> meh, "what was done engineering wise"
<smartboyhw> :P
<knome> i think that's the worst question ever
<smartboyhw> knome: +1
<knome> what does that "engineering" mean really?
<smartboyhw> Dunno. Maybe some new features?
 * smartboyhw suggests going to #ubuntu-release to ask that question:P
<smartboyhw> Oops;P
<astraljava> knome: That was easy, pick up the new uploaded packages from -changes.
<astraljava> No one ever complained about that method.
<astraljava> It's actually stuff that matters, too. Versioning of packages in the archives.
<astraljava> Not so much of Xubuntu's packages, of course, as not many (anyone?) depend on them.
<astraljava> But still, from the release-team-POV, it's useful information.
<astraljava> And for us, it's usually a no-brainer. Just pick the ones where uploader is either Lionel or Micah. :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<astraljava> Of course Micah uploads other packages when acting as a PP.
<astraljava> But you get the idea.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> so, there's the "what did you do?" and "what bugs did you work on?" which are sorted
<knome> now, what's about to land blah is trivial too, once you have those done
<knome> and the dependencies/blocking/concerns too
<astraljava> Yep, most often that was a "N/A" for us.
 * elfy wonders if this conversation is about what I was being told earlier
<knome> elfy, yeah, we're talking about the mails to the release team
<elfy> if it is - I missed the beginning :p
<smartboyhw> elfy: Yes:P
<knome> elfy, i'll paste you
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> elfy, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1253911/
<elfy> ta
<knome> np
<philballew> Anyone wanna run a xubuntu session in open week in a little less then a month?
<ailo_> I'm having a bit of problem with editing the menu. Added a submenu, more or less like here http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu#create_sub-menus. And looking at other edits, I can't see what's different with mine. The problem I'm having..
<ailo_> The submenu is named after its parent, instead of <Name>Myname</Name>
<ailo_> To clarify, the submenu is displaying its parents name in the actual menu, while in the file, I'm using a custom name with <Name>Myname</Name>
<ailo_> If I use <Layout>.., and inside it <Menuname>, using the custom menu name, I still see the parents name displayed 
<ailo_> Well, I've realized the <Directory> needs to exist somewhere
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-03
<micahg> astraljava: I actually upload a bunch of other stuff too :)
<Unit193> xnox: I take it you never got any of them?
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah I think I wanted to say so, but probably phrased it badly. :)
<astraljava> Was thinking about the stuff that you do when you're patch piloting, for instance.
<xnox> Unit193: never got any of what, sorry?
<pleia2> knome: where did we end up with getting the offline docs uploaded somewhere? and doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu deleted?
<micahg> knome: any more seed changes (I'd like to respin xubuntu-meta so we pick up the pam-xdg support
<knome> micahg, no, as long as we fit on a CD
<knome> pleia2, we should contact the IS about uploading under xubuntu.org - other docs can go
<pleia2> knome: ok, shall I open a ticket?
<knome> pleia2, please :)
<pleia2> k
<micahg> knome: still do according to latest dailies
<knome> micahg, great
<micahg> knome: we seem to have a bunch of room on amd64 now, should I add back a language or 2?
<knome> micahg, what is "bunch" ?
<knome> micahg, and how come we do have that space
<micahg> ~20M
<micahg> idk...
<knome> well meh.
<knome> i'd rather reintroduce gnumeric, but it sucks we're this late in the cycle
<knome> but i suppose langpacks are fine
<micahg> we'd have to drop an i386 language to do that
<knome> yeah
<knome> let's not do that atm
<micahg> ok,  pick 2 of 'xh fr pt de' to be on amd64
<knome> well what's the most spoken
<knome> xh pt ?
<micahg> I think so
<knome> i'd imaging that would be near what we had
<micahg> ok, tomorrows images should be closer together in size
<knome> ok, thanks again
<pleia2> always worrysome when I submit an RT ticket and get no ticket number back
 * pleia2 waits
<pleia2> also, case badge stickers shipped yesterday :)
<SiB_2> Hello?\
<SiB_2> I'm trying to write a C program, but GCC doesn't recognize the functions 'strptime' and 'localtime_r'
<SiB_2> But I have done #include <time.h>
<SiB_2> Any ideas?
<micahg> hrm? how are you building it?
<SiB_2> gcc -ansi -Wall (filename)
<micahg> and what do you get?
<SiB_2> warning: implicit declaration of function âstrptimeâ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
<micahg> can you pastebin your code? 
<SiB_2> Okay, I
<SiB_2> Hang on...
<SiB_2> ....oh.
<SiB_2> Forgot this:
<SiB_2> "#define _XOPEN_SOURCE"
<SiB_2> Sorry to bother you... I guess this is what you get when you develop the same code on a different platform than your target :P
<ochosi> SiB_2: so you're working on something related to xubuntu in any way?
<SiB_2> Not really. It's an assignment for school. The computer it has to run on runs Xubuntu, though.
<SiB_2> I (and the prof) develop on a Mac, which is why neither of us included it in the base file.
<SiB_2> It's just a basic calendar parser.
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> well if you wanna develop something for xubuntu, that'd be most welcome (we're rather short on devs usually)
<SiB_2> Ummm.. but what would I develop?
<ochosi> depends on what you're interested in :)
<ochosi> theoretically there's lots of stuff to do
<ochosi> i guess starting with bug-fixes is always best
<SiB_2> Good to know
<SiB_2> Bye.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-04
<i_ant> Hi all, I'm want to help community by something. What I should to do?
 * micahg is confused, the ISOs are even smaller today...
<smartboyhw> what?
<smartboyhw> omg
 * micahg should grab the manifest and diff
<GridCube> o: so we could put languages back?
<micahg> well, some printer drivers were dropped
<micahg> realpath seems to no longer be included
<micahg> other than that, it's fine, it might have been the language pack updates that made it shrink
<micahg> it would appear we have enough space for abiword again (but I'm reluctant to do that at this point)
<micahg> err...gnumeric I mean
<micahg> so, another language on i386 and 2 on amd64?
<micahg> knome: ^^
<storm_> ÐµÑÑÑ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¸Ðµ ?
<storm_> ÐºÑ-ÐºÑ
<storm_> Ð°Ñ
<Unit193> !ru
<ubottu> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<knome> micahg, y
<micahg> knome: which please?
<knome> micahg, xh pt?
<knome> micahg, or do we want even more?
<micahg> currently on both:  es zh-hans xh pt i386 only: fr de
<knome> aha
<knome> so, we have space where?
<knome> oh, both...
<knome> micahg, what about reintroducing the korean fonts
 * micahg doesn't think we dropped them
<storm_> ?
<knome> micahg, right...
<micahg> grep nanu *
<micahg> desktop: * (fonts-nanum)
<storm_> ÑÑÐ¾ ?
<storm_> ÐÐ½Ð³Ð»Ð¸ÑÐ°Ð½Ðµ ?
<knome> storm_, english please
<knome> micahg, so amd64 can take two more langs and i386 one?
<storm_> no english
<storm_> very bad
<storm_> russian please
<micahg> knome: yes
<knome> micahg, well, add fr/de to the amd64 image
<micahg> [13:41] <ubottu> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<knome> then what's the next most spoken language?
<Sysi> sorry, nobody here speaks russian
<knome> micahg, do we have cyrillic fonts if we added russian?
<micahg> knome: you tell me what it is and I'll add it
<knome> i'm not sure what list we've been using...
<knome> zh is mandarin?
<micahg> knome: nope, no cyrillic AFAIK
<knome> hindi? :P
<knome> there's a lot of non-western stuff here
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
<micahg> knome: ok, will have to look later then
<knome> micahg, ok thanks
<knome> micahg, i can look at it some time tomorrow too if you don't do it meanwhile
 * micahg would prefer to add a language though that would be used
<knome> yeah, looking at popularity contest data would work for me too
<knome> ok, i'm off for now
<knome> see you later
<pleia2> suppose I should say here too, the case badges came in :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8054550913/
<bluesabre> pleia2: Those look awesome, when do we start selling those?  :)
<pleia2> maybe November ;)
<pleia2> some are going to knome and people at UDS, I'll probably arrange to take donations to cover costs when I stop traveling (so, November)
<torax> pleia2: Did you had those made or what?
<ochosi> pleia2: those look awesome!
<Noskcaj> what is it?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8054550913/ (pleia made those)
<Noskcaj> u r a legend pleia2
<pleia2> torax: knome designed them and I had them custom made at namethatcomputer.com
<pleia2> Noskcaj :)
<knome> oh cool
<knome> pleia2, does it look a bit pixelized or is it just the big zoom?
<pleia2> huge zoom
<pleia2> my human eyeballs don't seem to be good enough to really see it in the sticker
<knome> oh yeah
<pleia2> then again, I am getting quite old
<pleia2> :P
<knome> i hope mine aren't either :P
<knome> any possibilities of getting a normal photo of that?
<knome> i mean, seein ghat in a normalish photo
<knome> seeing that
<knome> too..
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8054900939/ is the sheet
<pleia2> should put some reference point next to it or something
<knome> mmh. at least not too visible
<knome> well, a photo of the laptop?
<knome> but yeah, they look good
<pleia2> the laptop is tiny :)
<knome> i'll definitely buy you at least one of those sheets
<knome> lol, so you can't take a pic of that
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8054552834/
<knome> take a pic of it and you :P
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> I am a giant!
<knome> lol
<knome> no you're not
<knome> and no, that pic doesn't count :D
<knome> take a pic of the whole laptop with the sticker visible :P
<pleia2> I will do some better ones later, now work :)
<knome> hehe, yeah
<knome> no hurry
<knome> but yeah
<knome> maybe we should ask the printer
<knome> i mean, while it might not be visible for human eye
<knome> one would expect them to stand some closer looking
<knome> it's not good that the resolution is so barely fitting, or they didn't know how to handle the sources
<pleia2> yeah, could see if they have preference file size wise for best results
<knome> and format too
<torax> pleia2: how much did they cost and how much you bought?
<knome> torax, they were $1 per piece
<torax> knome: can I have the desing also, so I could make an order. I bet we have few people who would want that :P
<pleia2> I ordered 100 for about $100, the other option was 50 for about $75
<pleia2> didn't ask about other pricing
<knome> i was thinking i'd ask tero (torax's teacher) if he'd like to buy a bundle of those, but i forgot when we met the last time
<torax> Ok, so it might be quite expensive to order just a few
<knome> now that we have images, i could send him email
<knome> but i'd need some more flattering images
<knome> ;)
<torax> knome: those would also be nice if we can bring the haaga-helia linux club back alive
<torax> I have to ask if there is someone in charge of the almost-dead club, if I could take over or something
<knome> i'm not sure how i can help, but i can promise i'll try to, if you try to boot it
<knome> (i can't promise any definite time-commitment)
<knome> torax, but i can also ask the chair of FLUG if they want to help...
<knome> finnish linux users group, that is
<ochosi> i'm currently working on some mockups for a popup-window that'll help identifying the currently selected display in our new display-dialog
<ochosi> (if anyone is interested in giving feedback, i can quickly post them)
<torax> knome: great. IÂ´ll ask around if someone at school( mainly in my group ) would like to help, and IÂ´ll ask Tero if he can help somehow. Teros linux project course starts in couple weeks
<knome> goodie. are you going to attend?
<torax> knome: of course ;D
<knome> torax, have you thought of your project already ?
<torax> knome: My friend is doing LFS and I was thinking about joining him
<knome> mm-hmm
<torax> But I dont know how if its going to be horrible failure :D
<knome> time will tell
<torax> Do you have any suggestions?
<ochosi> yeah, do a xubuntu/xfce related project! :)
<torax> :D
<ochosi> (open source coding is the best, i don't think i ever learned so much from other people)
<knome> yeah, agreed with ochosi
<knome> both on x related and learning from others
<torax> We are first year student so most of the projects are "I configure ubuntu studio and e-piano to work together"
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> then start writing docs
<torax> :D
<ochosi> that's always extremely helpful
<ochosi> or start by fixing bugs
<torax> I think IÂ´ll go to sleep now, night!
<ochosi> night
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-05
<olbi> hello
<olbi> some1 tested new LibreOffice in X 12.10?
<olbi> LO 3.6.2
<Unit193> !info libreoffice quantal
<ubottu> libreoffice (source: libreoffice): office productivity suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:3.6.1~rc2-1ubuntu4 (quantal), package size 29 kB, installed size 166 kB
<elfy> knome: on the tracker - the post-installation tests are archived again - any idea what's going on? 
<elfy> or who and where to ask even ... 
<smartboyhw> elfy, er actually someone got a bug reported for that let me find it
<smartboyhw> Bug 1057280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057280 in Ubuntu QA Website "Post-installation (Xubuntu) Desktop i386 for Quantal Beta 2 (Testcase) cannot report a fail or list bug experienced while performing this testcase." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057280
<smartboyhw> may be useful:)
<elfy> well I've confirmed it if nothing else 
<smartboyhw> elfy, confirm it
<smartboyhw> :)
<elfy> what?
<smartboyhw> elfy, uh the bug ah you just confirmed the bug:P (I said that since the page is still new at that time:P)
<elfy> don't understand?
<smartboyhw> elfy, no no no forget it
<smartboyhw> ;P
<micahg> knome: ah, we don't have room after all on i386..
<micahg> amd64 has a little room though
<GridCube> lol
<smartboyhw> GridCube, why lol?
<GridCube> because yesterday we where happy we had room for more languages and today we are back ot square one :P
<smartboyhw> GridCube, ah lol
<GridCube> its like snakes and ladders
<knome> elfy, i'd be in touch with balloons
<knome> micahg, right, do whatever what keeps us below
<elfy> knome: ok - when he's woken up lol
<knome> yeah :)
<elfy> I've pinged him in various places about other things lol 
<elfy> snoring :)
<knome> heh
<knome> right
<knome> i'm not sure if he's around much on weekends
<knome> but...
<elfy> I'll catch up with him 
<knome> yup
<elfy> going to try and spend a bit of time this weekend catching up - had a strange fortnight I have 
<knome> how strange?
<elfy> very - seem to have been trying to get things done and find a job - and succeeded in doing exactly none of them 
<knome> humm
<knome> right
<knome> sounds very lifey day :P
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> you know how it is - you sort of know what you're up to and life chucks a load of stuff you'r enot expecting :)
<knome> yup
<knome> definitely
<knome> going to go and lecture some about openoffice next week
<knome> got a mail today
<elfy> nice 
<knome> "you might need to teah some basic skills too, like attaching files to email"
<knome> "duh"
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> right, i thought it was an openoffice training
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-06
<exhugo> hi there
<exhugo> It is not possible drag and drop items in xubuntu's 12.10 beta2 main menu editor... Is it a bug?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-07
<micahg> knome: I'm didn't change anything last week for the ISOs, so I'm leaving them as is right now (we probably have enough room on amd64 for one more language, but I won't be around until after Final Freeze), feel free to have someone else tweak
<micahg> s/I'm/I
<knome> micahg, it's fine as it is. thanks! :)
<knome> hello GridCube 
<GridCube> hello knome :) 
<GridCube> hard day of irl working
<knome> aha, hope it was productive then too
<GridCube> and it seems its gonna be a few more days of work
<GridCube> sort of
<GridCube> im putting the ceiling of my bedroom
<GridCube> and im figuring it out basically
<knome> aha
<knome> good luck
<GridCube> and its kind of hard to work upwards with tools
<knome> yeah, it is
<GridCube> its unconfortable
<knome> i converted my company website to wordpress and published it
<knome> also published an article on my blog
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2012/10/08/open-source-benefits-for-students/
<GridCube> knome, talking 'bout bits, how are things going with xubuntu? are we in good shape ?
<knome> yeah, everything seems to be relatively well for the release
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> if we reach release date with space for more languages, would they be added?
<knome> micah said we might have space for one more language on amd64, but we're probably not going to add that
<knome> finalfreeze is tuesday
<GridCube> yes, i figured that much
<GridCube> its kind of sad :(
<knome> kind of, but that's how time-based releases are, you need to stop somewhere
<GridCube> indeed, but we gave up alternate
<knome> sure, but how does that relate?
<GridCube> in that we are droping lots of stuff
<GridCube> gnumeric, languages, alternate... we need to find a way to obtain more manpower :/
<knome> dropping gnumeric and languages have nothing to do with manpower
<knome> dropping alternate partly does, but that's not the whole story really
<GridCube> mmmhm i think i understand :)
<GridCube> maybe i dont really understand how compressing and coding really works
<knome> we will most probably reintroduce gnumeric for R since we have the space for that now
<knome> compressing? coding? :)
<knome> it is true that more people to help us wouldn't hurt
<GridCube> :P because if theres ways to reduce the code, or compress it better, we might have more space
<knome> or the people hanging around being able to help more
<GridCube> :) i try with what i can
<knome> reducing or compressing the code is something that developers, not package maintainers should do
<GridCube> oh ok
<knome> but maybe you are referring to squashfs?
<GridCube> then theres my mistake, we are not developers then, weh are package mantainers?
<knome> well, we are not the developers for the upstream packages, eg. we don't really develop abiword
<GridCube> mmhm yes
<GridCube> i understand that
<knome> we aren't exactly even the packagers for abiword...
<knome> (or package maintainers)
<GridCube> mmmh yes
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-30
<Unit193> "tee redirects only stdout"  that's why  2>&1 | tee
<Unit193> xnox: Thanks.
<Unit193> Now I'm scared to ask. :P
<skellat> Okay, LP #1231978 bothers me greatly on my clean install of the daily.  We need to figure that one out soon.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 under xubuntu 13.10 beta2 locks when browsing Trash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<brainwash> Unit193: yes, I guess this terminal gtk mneu issue requires some real debugging :(
<Noskcaj10> brainwash, Can't you use xterm to help with debugging
<brainwash> Noskcaj10: I did, using another terminal emulator to start xfce4-terminal freezes the session
<brainwash> (if you trigger the bug)
<Noskcaj10> brainwash, Some ideas for debugging: Test debian version, Test the xfce version, test older versions. It looks like it's something else rather than the terminal itself though
<brainwash> right, thanks for the ideas :)
<Noskcaj10> I've just added myself to the affects list
<Noskcaj10> But if you can repeat it in a debian install or with the upstream tarball please file the bug there, it should speed up getting a fix
<brainwash> yes, I will
<brainwash> wow, first time I see the update notifier applet in saucy
<brainwash> does a bug report for all the hidden gtk3 indicators exist?
<brainwash> besides, it's almost unbelievable, how often apport gets triggered, it's like every app wants to segfault once in a while
<baizon> well, the update notifier isnt showing up for me :(
<baizon> not for me
<brainwash> it did for me, to tell me that I have an outdated package
<brainwash> because I downgraded xfce4-terminal
<skellat> Well, looking ahead to the upcoming LTS cycle...this bit of auto-removal news relative to Testing should be interesting: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/09/msg00006.html
<skellat> Nothing Xfce-related is listed so far
<brainwash> regarding bug 1232027 , shouldn't the missing package be included asap?
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<skellat> micahg: If we're still able to do so, I think we can go ahead and remove pidgin-microblog from the archive since it has been orphaned upstream in Debian.
<skellat> I proposed merges to get it out of our seed and Lubuntu's due to this: #712102
<skellat> Pardon me, Debian Bug #712102
<ubottu> Debian bug 712102 in pidgin-microblog "Plugin no longer functions with Twitter or Identica" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/712102
<skellat> And now Debian Bug #724983 says it is orphaned
<ubottu> Debian bug 724983 in wnpp "O: pidgin-microblog -- Microblogging plugins for Pidgin" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/724983
<skellat> It looks like no further action on it is going to happen
<skellat> :-(
<kristal> Soo gnomers are playing with wayland and kde is getting there... how/when is xfce getting/going wayland?
<ochosi> after the gtk3 transition, which is after the 4.12 release
<ochosi> so it'll be a while
<brainwash> in like 2 years
<kristal> Oh my, LXDE is going to beat you.
<ochosi> it's not a contest though
<knome> no, not by any means
<brainwash> feel free to help porting Xfce to gtk3
<kristal> It's for feature phallus waving :P
<knome> !language | kristal 
<ubottu> kristal: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<kristal> Wow, I didn't get the language warning for that work on a Christian irc.
<knome> that's not a contest either.
<kristal> Well if it were, you won.  You guys porting the piles of gtk2 stuff to gtk3 or jsut rewriting a lot? I haven't looked into how modular things are.
<brainwash> ochosi: new release of gvfs https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/1.18.1-0ubuntu2
<kristal> LXDE guys are RWing into Qt because they're soo tied into their current stuff.
<ochosi> brainwash: the changelog doesn't suggest our problem got tackled. but at least now you have a guy to talk to (seb128)
<ochosi> kristal: things are really modular in xfce, so you can port component-by-component
<kristal> Qt is superior to GTK in some ways, but they way Qt uses C++ is a nightmare,  the custom memory system alone deserves it's own book.
<ochosi> and the main libraries already compile against gtk2 and gtk3, so anyone can start hacking on it
<brainwash> ochosi: guess I'll inform him in #ubuntu-devel
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, good call
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm in there, but if you need support, lemme know
<kristal> ochosi: I'd play with it but I'm currently playing with SDL for Qt5 and GTK3.
<ochosi> kristal: that's a shame, xfce could really use more contributors
<kristal> ochosi: If RazorQt and LXDE could join forces, I don't see why XFCE can't eat another project.
<kristal> Really bowls down to how stubborn the lead devs to both projects are...
<knome> can't eat what project?
<kristal> knome: Any project that's gtk2 going gtk3 could simply work with xfce and become an xfce fork.
<kristal> LXDE was going to do that but went with RazorQt devs because they decided to go Qt instead of GTK.
<ochosi> i don't know of any gtk2 DE going gtk3 tbh
<knome> right, but wouldn't that be the same as just the other people help porting xfce to gtk3?
<ali1234> can't think of any myself
<ali1234> i just heard about gnome-flashback today
<ochosi> hmyeah
<ochosi> not sure that'll be helpful
<ali1234> they say they're going to port metacity to gtk3
<knome> i don't think there is anything that is enough like xfce
<ali1234> that's just mutter though. seriously, the code is like 99% copy pasted
<ochosi> yeah, porting metacity is weird
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, have you considered getting your hands dirty on some xfce project yet?
<ali1234> like what?
<kristal> Just have to post an official message of unity and love, mail DEs that are still active but short on manpower, even if they're not gtk2.
<ali1234> i prefer to find bugs and let someone else fix them
<ochosi> ali1234: dunno, depends on what you use. ppl use xfce in very different ways
<ochosi> hehe, doesn't everyone ;)
<ali1234> i use thunar and terminal...?
<ali1234> and panel
<ali1234> and that's it
<kristal> Too bad there's still no official Go packaging standard for Linux, then I could make Go software for FOSS projects...
<knome> kristal, i don't know how that would be different from simply gathering more developers/contributors for xfce. am i missing something?
<ali1234> i can;t honestly think of any other DEs that haven't already been mentioned except for e17
<kristal> knome: Not much different, just having projects hook up as well.
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i suppose there is a reason why they are different projects to begin with
<ali1234> and e17 is a one-man show pretty much
<kristal> ROX is gtk2, kinda dead, maybe ask about them.
<ochosi> kristal: anyway, if you meet motivated folk it'd be nice if you point them in xfce's direction (git.xfce.org)
<ochosi> ali1234: same with xfce though (mostly) atm
<kristal> ochosi: I have, but they went KDE instead. :0 
<ali1234> i've never heard of ROX before
<brainwash> you should head over to #xfce-dev
<ochosi> kristal: thing is, usually people work on foss for fun or to scratch an itch, so "hooking up projects" isn't as easy as it sounds
<ochosi> the ROX-filemanager?
<kristal> ochosi: Ya it depends on the nature of the project.
<kristal> ochosi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROX_Desktop
<ochosi> yeah, but "hooking up" those two projects wouldn't add any dev-resources
<ochosi> and still, people would wanna keep working on the stuff they're interested in
<ochosi> and since it's open source, people read each other's sourcecode anyway...
<kristal> ochosi: Where I work we basically contribute to another company's code and repackage it as our own... same concept. lol
<ochosi> ali1234: you don't use xfwm4?
<ali1234> yeah i use that i guess
<ochosi> that could use some love...
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> show me the bugs
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> opengl compositing :)
<ali1234> works for me
<knome> ehm, probably not the highest priority bug :P
<ali1234> much faster than compiz too
<ochosi> well, many patches are rotting in bugzilla
<ochosi> random example: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10184 in General "Xfwm turns into useless state after setting system time backwards" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> i don't understand how to use bugzilla
<ali1234> it's the worst bug tracker ever :(
<ali1234> you see a bug once and can never find it again because the search is useless
<brainwash> does anyone run debian testing? we need to confirm bug 1231978
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<ali1234> why would you need to run debian testing to confirm that?
<brainwash> too many questions
<kristal> I have that bug in ubuntu 13.10
<ochosi> ali1234: then there is a bug in xfwm4/X11 (since 12.10) that you can't use 1px window-borders anymore (it creates weird artifacts on the screen). our workaround was patching the themes. not too nice
<ali1234> ah the window borders
<ali1234> those need reworking
<ochosi> ali1234: before i go into more, it just could use someone to look after
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, stuff like enhanced grab-area for resizing, etc.
<ali1234> it should be possible to have 0px window borders and still resize windows
<ochosi> exactly
<ali1234> kde only got that like a month or two ago :(
<ochosi> i'm not saying those are all critical bugs, but there are 200+ bugs in bugzilla for xfwm4
<ochosi> some extremely long-standing
<ochosi> (many of those are design decisions)
<ali1234> how can i see all the bugs affecting xfwm4 in chronological order?
<ochosi> but also a lot of more recent ones
<ochosi> ali1234: is PM ok? that link is loooong
<ali1234> ha
<skellat> brainwash: I can confirm that it is not found in Debian Testing on armhf with thunar 1.6.3-1 and gvfs 1.16.3-1+b1 according to apt-cache policy
<ali1234> one time someone told me the link for "how to see all bugs you've commented on or edited" - with the warning "don't use this often, it kills the server"
<ali1234> and so bugzilla sucks
<brainwash> skellat: gvfs 1.18 is causing the trouble
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, agreed to some extent... launchpad is quite awfully slow though and not much better
<skellat> brainwash: Well, I've got on armhf what Debian has packaged.  Apparently Ubuntu has its own deltas.  See: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gvfs
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, the link i sent you was sorted by "date when bug was last changed/updated", i can also send you one sorted by when it was opened
<kristal> bug 1231978 is a far reaching one... every gtk FM I have is affected.
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<ali1234> i can sort it by ID
<ochosi> true, should be the same :)
<brainwash> kristal: nautilus, nemo?
<kristal> brainwash: PCManFM, Nemo, Thunar... I'll try some more in a few mins.
<brainwash> so Nemo is affected?
<kristal> 3 FMs, surely not a coincidence, there's a pretty nasty underlying bug.
<kristal> brainwash: Definitely.
<brainwash> nautilus and nemo work fine for me
<ochosi> anyhoo, i'm off for now
<ochosi> bbiab
<kristal> brainwash:  With Nemo the FM completely hangs up sometimes, but not 100% of the time like with pcmanfm or thunar
<brainwash> ochosi: cya
<ochosi> cya brainwash 
<brainwash> skellat: want to file a bug report upstream? bugzilla.gnome.org
<kristal> brainwash: right click trash in nemo instead of left click, that seems to do the trick
<brainwash> kristal: I'll try it
<ali1234> i can't reproduce that bug about setting the clock back
<brainwash> kristal: negative, nemo does not crash or lock up
<kristal> brainwash: Just found an interesting quirk... after you crash and close... the next time you try you can't crash it again until you restart
<brainwash> kristal: yes, I can confirm that (I think)
<brainwash> maybe there is some randomness involved
<kristal> What a bugger of a bug, it's not very consistent.
<kristal> I can confirm it's not consistent on any FM, but PCManFM seems to get it the worst.
<brainwash> delete some file and hover over the trash icon on the desktop (xfdesktop)
<kristal> Nemo the best, Thunar in the middle... kde's fm seems fine so far
<kristal> I wonder if fedora 20 has this issue...
<brainwash> want to freeze your session? open xterm and start xfce4-terminal, not navigate to Menu Bar > Terminal > Set Encoding
<brainwash> s/not/now/
<ali1234> i just LOVE it when people CAPITALIZE random words IN bug REPORTS
<Noskcaj> brainwash, If you do it xfce4terminal to xfce4-terminal it doesn't freeze the session
<brainwash> I know, both instances simply vanish
<kristal> me? let me swap back to xfce, i was playing with lxde... in lxde your desktop wallpaper disappears when the FM crashes, i kid you not.
<Noskcaj> ali1234, You get used to it, as well as random swearing and saying that something else is better
<brainwash> because pcmanfm handles the desktop
<kristal> brainwash: Ah, that makes sense then.
<ali1234> i don't mind ranting as long as it is well written
<skellat> brainwash: The thing is, after the last apt-get dist-upgrade, the problem stopped on my Saucy Salamander partition.  Then again, there's no longer an option to send something to trash or view trash in Thunar but instead an 'rm -f' sort of menu item.
<skellat> And I wasn't watching to see which packages changed
<brainwash> skellat: a new release of gvfs has been pushed into proposed 2-3 hours ago
<brainwash> only fixing a non-related bug
<brainwash> skellat: wait, the trash is missing?
<brainwash> did you remove gvfs eventually? :D
<ali1234> speaking of "trash"
<ali1234> the localization is all mixed up for me
<kristal> So I installed trash-cli and this lets me view and empty trash without crashing the FM. :P
<ali1234> sometimes it is wastebasket, sometimes it is rubbish bin
<ali1234> and sometimes it is trash
<brainwash> garbage can, waste container,..
<skellat> brainwash: Nope, gvfs is still there...Trash is just no longer visible in thunar
<brainwash> skellat: that's odd
<skellat> Yep
 * skellat heads to kitchen
<kristal> Better having trash disabled until there's a proper fix...
<brainwash> and why did ubuntu switch to gvfs 1.18 ahead of debian? :/
<kristal> Probally for some feature or fix that affects canonical only.
<kristal> hahaha, added trash applet think it'd have it's own little UI for emptying trash.. launches thunar... now have dead thunar
<Noskcaj> The switch was probably so it was tested for the LTS
<Noskcaj> btw, can we try and have a PPC release for 14.04?
<kristal> A lot of 13.10 is intended for 14.04
<knome> Noskcaj, where's the testers or the demand really?
<kristal> ARM >>>>>>> PPC
<kristal> China is looking for MIPS desktop OSes for their loongson platform, currently they use Debian.
<Noskcaj> knome, there's not much demand. At least lubuntu will have a great PPC release then, and ubuntu might re-make it's image
<knome> Noskcaj, why would we have a PPC release for 14.04 then and take the extra workload?
<kristal> too bad sony killed otheros on the ps3, that would have propped up ppc demand
<Noskcaj> kristal, yeah
<kristal> PS4 and XboxOne are AMD APU, AMD64... I can't wait until one gets hacked and you can run Linux on it.
<kristal> 8GB RAM, 8 weak cores, 1 pretty nice GPU
<Noskcaj> :)
<kristal> It'll be Xbox1 all over again.
<Noskcaj> and linux gaming from the steam box
<knome> can we take the non-devel talk to #xubuntu-offtopic? cheers.
<Noskcaj> sure
<kristal> Sorry to paster you about this, but I don't know if the feature exists. In window manger I don't see a keyboard shortcut to undecorate a window, is this not possible? 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-01
<slickymaster> morning all o/
<ochosi> morning
<brainwash> hi
<brainwash> ochosi: adding pitti to the affected user list didn't quite help (yet) =S
<ochosi> i'd try to get in touch with seb128
<ochosi> and point him to the bugreport directly, ask him whether he has a clue what's up with that
<brainwash> did you see his reply in #ubuntu-devel?
<ochosi> g2g, bbl
<ochosi> nope
<brainwash> I did that
<brainwash> he told me to report it upstream
<ochosi> hmpf
<brainwash> I'll test the 3 important commits one by one then
<brainwash> cya
<ochosi> cool, thanks!
<ochosi> ttyl
<brainwash> ochosi: I gave up messing with gvfs and simply added a comment to the gnome bug report which is the cause of the gvfs "bug fix" release 1.18.1
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708744
<ubottu> Gnome bug 708744 in client module "GDaemonFileEnumerator registers itself on *all* dbus connections" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> ochosi: I'm surprised that a new upstart release (containing the fix to reduce logout time) has not been pushed into proposed yet
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, these things sometimes take time. it's even possible that it'll be pushed after the release, since it's bugfix
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll do some research about the development cycle and package freezing and so on :)
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1232119
<ubottu> bug 1232119 in upstart (Ubuntu) " FFE Request for Upstart in saucy " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232119
<ochosi> i assume that's "good news evryone!" ?
<knome> allÃ¶ ochosi, brainwash 
<brainwash> knome: hey
<ochosi> ahoi
<brainwash> ochosi: hopefully he won't forget about releasing an updated version upstart :)
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> nay idea, why Xfce won't react to keyboard shortcuts? it's like 50/50 on every login that they will work or simply won't
<brainwash> and appfinder is really slow now on my test machine
<brainwash> xfsettingsd is running
<ochosi> i'm seeing a similar issue
<brainwash> (the time needed for appfinder to actually popup)
<ochosi> kb-shortcuts at session-start is +10secs or so
<brainwash> it's the same old dbus mess
<ochosi> after those initial 10secs, the kb-shortcuts seem fine
<ochosi> think i've seen this problem in prior releases
<brainwash> yea, not quite sure if my keyboard shortcuts actually recover fully
<knome> i sometimes have a bug that the shortcuts do not work when i've closed all applications *after* working
<knome> opening a terminal with a panel launcher and closing that immediately make the shortcuts work again
<ochosi> well, launching apps any other way works in normal speed for e
<ochosi> me
<ochosi> so it seems xfsettingsd related
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> want to file a bug report? :)
<knome> i don't, but i'm more than happy to confirm and help triage and get it publicity.
<ochosi> know what we could do? keep it a secret instead and maybe no-one will notice ;)
<knome> that *is* an option
<knome> i suppose i can file the bug at some point
<knome> but not up to that now
<brainwash> knome: can you assign high priority to this bug (gvfs package) please?
<brainwash> bug 1231978
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<ochosi> +1
<knome> set to critical. that good
<knome> ?
<ochosi> i guess
<brainwash> yea :)
<ochosi> it's really a sucky sucky bug
<knome> i'll ping pitti about it
<brainwash> I already subscribed him to the bug report, but no comment yet
<knome> i pinged him on IRC
<brainwash> I did comment on the upstream bug report responsible for the 1.18.1 release of gvfs, but maybe I should have just file a new bug report (not sure if those guys care about comments on resolved reports)
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708744
<ubottu> Gnome bug 708744 in client module "GDaemonFileEnumerator registers itself on *all* dbus connections" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<bluesabre> yeah, comments on resolved tend to be ignored forever
<brainwash> knome: and I'm curious about bug 1232027, shouldn't the missing package be included as soon as possible? to allow some testing before final release
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<brainwash> bluesabre: :(
<bluesabre> but knome can probably haunt the right people
<bluesabre> s/haunt/ping
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> darn, brainwash and bluesabre, you're so hard to distinguish at late ours. same first letter and same nick-length...
<knome> bah
<knome> bluesabre, you should learn that skill as well ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: that is an interesting bug
<brainwash> ochosi: use some colors to distinguish our nicks
<knome> brainwash, get better, more distiguishable nicks
<bluesabre> I'd recommend making mine your terminal background color ;)
<ochosi> brainwash: my irssi-skills are too low and i'm quite fond of using a rather monochrome-ish theme...
 * knome files a bug
<ochosi> bluesabre: you wanna be the invisible man freddie mercury was singing about?
<knome> now now
<bluesabre> haha
<knome> you should all join -ot
<knome> we're more on topic there than you are here, shame!
<ochosi> knome: well, who's at more at fault then? (at least i assume that's your question)
<Unit193> ochosi: /run nickcolor.pl
<knome> ochosi, there wasn't a question .P
 * Unit193 doesn't use it. :D
<knome> me neither, i rather misread nicks.
<pleia2> ta-da https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-October/037695.html
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, as i said, i prefer monochrome irssi... if i start making bluesabre's nick e.g. *blue* i guess that'd just make things weird
<Unit193> pleia2: Yep, not surprised.
<pleia2> interesting that multi-monitor was the nail in the coffin for them too
<pleia2> I'm so glad they're taking that support seriously
<knome> pleia2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4_bklAqlaU
<knome> ta-dah!
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> that movie was just as excellent as the first
<knome> hehe, yep
<knome> minions are the best :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well, no time to feel schadenfreude
<pleia2> I've not seen either
<ochosi> after all, at some point xmir might bring benefits
<bluesabre> yeah, it might be worthwhile later on
<ochosi> at least intel-users said they felt everything looked "smoother"
<bluesabre> unfortunately, this probably means its delayed until 14.10 since they will probably want to avoid going full-force on it for the LTS without a "stable" testing time
<Unit193> I'd hope at least...
<ochosi> we'll see
<ochosi> these things don't seem to be very predictable in ubuntu from my experience
<knome> no
<knome> what i'm proud of is that we did the 'right' decision
<Unit193> But that also means all that testing and playing around was worthless. :P
<knome> it's not.
<knome> it's ground for xmir for later.
<bluesabre> yeah, we raised a bunch of concerns :)
<Unit193> Well, something to compare to, but still.
<ochosi> xubuntu also made quite a few headlines thanks to your images, Unit193 
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> (and with "images" i mean the pictures and photographs of yourself that you shared)
<Unit193> Ahaha.  But you mean the other type of images. :D
<ochosi> great minds think alike ;)
<ochosi> (unfortunately so do idiots)
<Unit193> Sadly for you at least...
<ochosi> so anyway, before knome kicks me out of -devel for being a bit -ot, great work on that xmir initiative
<ochosi> it was far from worthless
<knome> +1
<knome> and far from a crappy effort.
<Unit193> Eh, could be better, but at least http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65ZzffW-Cw
<ochosi> harhar
<ochosi> nice one
<ochosi> (wait, is that a *thing* now, that we post yt-links to these kind a quotes?)
 * knome shrugs
<knome> used to happen in -ot
<brainwash> ochosi: can you explain the current gtk2/gtk3 panel indicator situation please? still no gtk3 indicators for xubuntu users?
<ochosi> brainwash: it seems like gtk3 indicators won't happen by default in 13.10
<ochosi> there might be a PPA for them though
<knome> ochosi, micahg said he's going to try to push them in though
<brainwash> and forking them was never an option?
<ochosi> bluesabre was working on one, haven't checked what the status is
<knome> or then i misunderstood, Unit193 asked about that
<bluesabre> hm what?
<ochosi> wow, lotsa confusion here :)
<brainwash> what the bug?
<ochosi> brainwash: forking them doesn't help if the protocol or API of the services changes
<ochosi> knome: really? when did he say that? if so, is that really the plan? cause then i need to hack together support for them in 2 or 3 themes of ours
<knome> ochosi, around three hours ago in -offtopic
<ochosi> knome: haha, that seems to be the place for that kind of announcement
<knome> not announcement
<knome> Unit193 just asked him
<Unit193> ochosi: I asked, he answered.
<knome> tell him to ask in -devel
<ochosi> i see
<knome> no, don't see, just tell
<knome> :P
<ochosi> well not sure what to say
<ochosi> i guess i'll wait until that's in the archives until i start spending time on the themes
<ochosi> or at least: until it's in the works for realz
<knome> if that helps/soothes you at all, i'll want that in 14.04 at least, if there is no other solution (and i don't think there will be)
<knome> so work made on that isn't useless anyway
<ochosi> yeah, possibly not
<ochosi> unless theming stuff changes
<knome> so, we should probably just make a collective decision to keep the devel stuff in -devel and the rest in -ot
<knome> we haven't scheduled the next meeting, but i'll add that to the agenda
<knome> if the wiki decides to load
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-02
<knome> so what's your real question?
<knome> would you like to help with the technical development of the website?
<Jovanny> Yes
<knome> all the themes/plugins code is available at https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<knome> i'm working on a theme refresh currently though, and not all of that is in yet
<knome> so what would your suggestion with the translations be?
<Jovanny> mmm, using directories, could be ?
<knome> that's one option, but it becomes a burden to maintain if there are numerous of languages with numerous of pages
<Jovanny> You're Pasi Lallinaho ?
<knome> yep
<knome> that might be doable if we did a brief page including only the most basic information about xubuntu and only translate that to other languages
<Jovanny> I'm talking about the main page, the wiki could be later
<knome> yes, i'm talking about the website as well.
<knome> i don't think it's a sensible effort to translate all the pages without a translation framework
<Jovanny> You're the only one in this?
<knome> i'm the only contributor to the website theme and plugins itself, yes
<knome> but we do have a team who maintains the website
<Jovanny> the main page is wordpress?
<knome> to be honest, the technical solution is one of the smallest issues; maintaining the translations is going to be much more work
<knome> yes, it's wordpress
<Jovanny> And why not install a plugin for translations ?
<knome> the plugins that are around are not ready enough for production, except maybe WPML, but that comes with other issues (paid, could get a free copy for a non-profit org, but since we're not an organization, maybe not; don't want to depend on something like that)
<knome> have you used the wordpress translation/i18n plugins yourself?
<Jovanny> translation plugin ?
<Jovanny> no
<Jovanny> and what do you plan, make our own plugin ?
<knome> that's one possibility
<knome> i have something put up already, but that's far from ready for production
<knome> the two major problems with most of the plugins are scalability to many languages while keeping the admin interface clean and user permissions
<Jovanny> I think that is better making the page without depending of wordpress
<knome> that's not an option
<Jovanny> mmm
<knome> that would mean we would either have to 1) get the canonical IS update the static page every time we want modifications 2) another CMS/admin interface to modify the files
<Jovanny> http://wordpress.org/plugins/transposh-translation-filter-for-wordpress/
<knome> yes, i know there are translation plugins for wordpress and i have investigated them
<knome> as i said, none of them are ready for production
<knome> (or suitable for us, mostly because they have one or both of the two problems i mentioned earlier)
<Jovanny> I could try the something that you say that is already put up on wp
<knome> as i said, it's far from ready for production
<Jovanny> why it is far from ready for production ?
<knome> because there isn't all functionality the plugin needs or it isn't working properly
<knome> thanks for offering the help, but i don't need help with that right now (read: yet)
<Jovanny> LOL, and why not making a simple sub page in wordpress and I will write that in spanish ?
<knome> as i said, that's one option
<Jovanny> then ?, help me with that 
<knome> the first step to that would be considering if that's what we want, and then writing the english page to be translated first
<knome> pleia2, ^
<Jovanny> we or you ?
<knome> the decision should be taken by the website team, the english "base" page can be then be written by anybody, with the website/marketing/xubuntu team reviewing
<knome> i have updated bug 797600
<ubottu> bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Enable translations for the Xubuntu website" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797600
<knome> i'd suggest subscribing to that to follow the process
<Unit193> Jovanny: Don't take this the wrong way, we're trying to come up with something that in the future will be easy to maintain as well as for now. :)
<knome> yay, wiki works
<knome> ok, it's past 4am here
<knome> i'm off to bed
<knome> Jovanny, thanks for the interest, hoping to see you later in this channel. sorry for not having anything to translate atm.
<knome> ->
<Jovanny> ok
<micahg> ochosi: knome: unless there's another option to have working indicators, I'm going to try to sort out the packaging tomorrow night for the gtk3 stuff and see if we can get a release exception, I'll throw it up in a PPA first, that'll give us about a week to test/land it
<Unit193> Debian has libxfceui in exp at least, with gtk3 support.
<micahg> great, that's one problem solved then
<Unit193> There's 2 commits after the latest (last I looked) xfce4-indicator-plugin that would be interesting, scroll wheel over volume and scroller click on it to mute.  Hopefully helpful.
<knome> micahg, +1 for gtk3 indicators all the way.
<Noskcaj> GTK3 indicators would be great. If you can't make that, can you at least get indicators 1.0.0 in?
<knome> hey ochosi, you still around?
<knome> elfy, you around?
<Unit193> I am. \o/
<knome> Unit193, want to test something on saucy? bug 1231978, see last comment
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<knome> also, could check if bug 1233904 is fixed with that as well
<ubottu> bug 1233904 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes if you choose "View --> Side Panel --> Tree"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233904
<Unit193> Hrm, VM doesn't have the deps for gvfs, and it's 5am.  Could in a couple hours though.
<knome> heh. go to sleep
<knome> upgrading my own vm to the latest packages and testing that
<Unit193> Trying to see if I want to fix some ssl cert problem first. ;P
<knome> not going to do any harm while you sleep
<knome> and probably better brains in the morning
<ochosi> knome: does no-one read bugcomments anymore?
<knome> ochosi, he asked "again"
<knome> but meh, i tried to do that, and failed to confirm the original bug
<ochosi> anyhoo, i'm off for now ->
<knome> if you have an installation where you have that bug with the latest packages, could you confirm and retest?
<knome> Ã¤sch :)
<brainwash> pitti did not read ochosi's comments :(
<knome> he did. he asked to test it again
<knome> can we stop being drama llamas?
<knome> at least somebody is looking into the bug and trying to help
<bluesabre> llama llama
<brainwash> yea, finally :P
<knome> brainwash, please.
<knome> brainwash, if you wanted somebody to look at the bug earlier, just get ahold of them and try to discuss with people. subscribing random people to bugs is hardly helpful when they are busy
<knome> i mean it's a good thing to do that and the situation would probably be different if we weren't at this point of the cycle, but since we are, it's not realistic to expect people to give priority to our bugs
<brainwash> I know, but pitti did the package update and seb18 told me to report upstram, so I commented on the upstream report
<knome> fair, but whining that nobody looked at a bug isn't constructive
<knome> get on with it and ask again if things are stalled.
<knome> or try to fix/triage it yourself or find somebody else who could help
<brainwash> ok, next time I ping him directly
<knome> that works. to be clear; i don't mind the way you did the communication this time either
<knome> it's the attitude that irks me
<brainwash> I know, the main issue was basically that I wasn't able to fix it after messing with gvfs some hours.. so I got a little mad
<knome> that's understandable, but doesn't warrant blaming others for not looking at it
<knome> but i still can't reproduce the bug on a saucy installation.
<brainwash> not even with xfdkestop, after deleting a file and the hovering over the trash icon?
<brainwash> xfdesktop should lock up after doing so
<knome> i hit that when i reboot
<knome> don't know why
<knome> (the thunar process in the saved session crashed)
<knome> can browse trash and open new thunar instances from desktop without problems though
<knome> and xfdesktop is running properly
<brainwash> and even delete the trash content with right-click on the trash icon in the side panel?
<brainwash> maybe you need to delete at least 1 file to actually trigger it
<knome> that i can confirm
<Unit193> brainwash: Was yours an upgrade or fresh?
<knome> but xfdesktop is still running as normal
<brainwash> fresh
<brainwash> gvfs 1.18.1+
<brainwash> I can reproduce it with thunar, pcmanfm and xfdekstop
<brainwash> not with nautilus, nemo
<Noskcaj> Did we ever find out if it affects debian?
<ochosi> knome: i get a weird bug in gmusicbrowser, it's only a visual oddity, but can you confirm? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10022013-122142pm.php
<brainwash> encoding problem?
<ochosi> probably, but not sure why 
<ochosi> doesn't seem to happen when i run gmusicbrowser from git though...
<brainwash> ochosi: it's not song title specific, right?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> should be in every group
<ochosi> group=album
<ochosi> seems to be solely related to the "Â«" character
<brainwash> yes, looks ok here
<brainwash> (test machine)
<brainwash> if you hover over the "Â«", a lock icon will appear
<knome> ochosi, i can confirm i don't have that bug ;)
<ochosi> phew, good
<ochosi> brainwash: that's different, you have to go to the grouped view, the thing you're describing is actually an image that gets replaced on hover by the lock-icon ;)
<knome> in raring, that is
<knome> with the version that is in raring
<ochosi> well i didn't have the issue in raring
<ochosi> so that doesn't help
<knome> heh, well you didn't specify...
<ochosi> it seems to be new in saucy
<knome> ok, i'll boot up my saucy vm
<ochosi> well tbh i couldn't care less about raring bugs atm :)
<knome> yeah yeah, but you didn't specify
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, I can confirm this
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> not nice
<knome> yep, can confirm
<knome> where's the Â«'s defined?
<ochosi> in /usr/share/gmusicbrowser/layouts/shimmer.layout
<ochosi> in the group-section
<knome> looking at that and other stuff that might give the error
<brainwash> https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser/blob/master/layouts/shimmer.layout#L137
<knome> where do the song title Â«'s come from?
<knome> oomph
<knome> -+title:	text(markup='<b><big>'.pesc($title).'</big></b>'.if(!$_expanded,'<big><b>Â»</b></big>'),pad=2,w=left))
<knome> ++title:	text(markup='<b><big>'.pesc($title).'</big></b>'.if(!$_expanded,'<big><b>ÃâÃÂ»</b></big>'),pad=2,w=left))
<knome> @ http://launchpadlibrarian.net/148671131/gmusicbrowser_1.1.9-2_1.1.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<meetingology> knome: Error: "http://launchpadlibrarian.net/148671131/gmusicbrowser_1.1.9-2_1.1.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz" is not a valid command.
 * knome slaps meetingology 
<knome> lderan, there's not even a meeting on!
<lderan> its gone mad!
<knome> lderan, note the @ at the beginning of the line
<lderan> aye 
<lderan> :P
<lderan> @test
<meetingology> lderan: Error: "test" is not a valid command.
<knome> ochosi, the problem seems to be visible in the .layout file, but how did one "reset" a layout again?
<ochosi> knome: just edit the file, save it and restart gmusicbrowser
<knome> did, but that doesn't work
<ochosi> it did here
<ochosi> but you have to edit the songtree.layout file
<knome> ah..
<ochosi> (as stated in the diff you pointed to ;))
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, anyway
<knome> i think it's bluesabre's fault
<ochosi> possible
<knome> we just need a new upload with fixed source files for layouts
<ochosi> all the names of the translaters are also borked
<ochosi> 'Finnish : Jiri GrÃÂ¶nroos'
<knome> bah
<knome> just run it through recode
<ochosi> obviously translations are also broken
<knome> :/
<ochosi> yeah, shouldn't be too hard
<ochosi> and at least that one doesn't need a FFe for sure...
<knome> hah
<ochosi> probably it can be done though together with the albuminfo fix
<knome> yep
<ochosi> so it'd be just one upload
<ochosi> bluesabre: any idea how to fix all these encoding issues here? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/148671131/gmusicbrowser_1.1.9-2_1.1.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<knome> ochosi, as i said, just run through recode ;)
<ochosi> knome: thanks for testing and finding the culprit
<knome> sudo apt-get install recode; recode ISO-8859-1..UTF-8 [filenames]  <- should do it
<ochosi> kewl
<knome> better double-check, but that ought to be the it
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^ :)
<knome> i'm not sure if that's the real solution, since the Â« (UTF-8) characters *are* there
<knome> seems semi-fishy
<ochosi> bbiab
<brainwash> so recoding it will add another Â« ?
<knome> dunno.
<knome> maybe
<brainwash> bug 1234050 is most likely a duplicate of the thunar trash lock up, can anyone confirm this kind of lock up?
<ubottu> bug 1234050 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar freezes when opening samba windows share network" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234050
<knome> not a duplicate as is, but possibly can be caused by the same changes
<knome> i think i saw another samba bug, which was most probably related
<brainwash> bug 1232324
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1232324 Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<knome> that wasn't it
<knome> ergh, i think i hit another bug in gmb
<knome> if you drag and drop tracks to queue exactly when a track is changing, they aren't visible in the queue
<knome> but the songtree has the queue-icons
<knome> let's see if they are in queue or not.
<knome> oh wait, advancing in queue makes them visible
<ochosi> knome: guess that one should go upstream
<knome> yeah
<elfy> knome: not really here till later today, but I expect you guessed 
<knome> elfy, np
<elfy> saw the bug comments though
<knome> bbl
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<brainwash> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/1.10-0ubuntu2
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: probably my fault, but not sure how
<bluesabre> maybe debdiff corrupts encoding?
<knome> maybe
<bluesabre> sure would be nice if this debdiff wasn't so freaking huge :)
<bluesabre> the shimmer.layout file looks fine
 * bluesabre wonders if its a perl-gtk2 problem
 * knome shrugs
<bluesabre> or maybe not
<bluesabre> thats so weird
<knome> what does your 'locale' say?
<bluesabre> en_US.UTF-8
<knome> ok, good, just checking
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> any idea where the debdiff I gave to micahg for that went?
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> can't seem to find it, I wonder if I dpasted it and it lost the encoding or something crazy
<knome> uh
<knome> no idea
<bluesabre> guess I'll see about getting a fix of some sort up
<bluesabre> ??
<knome> yep
<knome> that'd be cool
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you verify if the encoding issues are in your /usr/share/gmusicbrowser/layouts/shimmer.layout
<brainwash> wasn't it songtree.layout?
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> ok, now I have a more reasonable place to look
<bluesabre> knome: is there an lp bug for the encoding problem?
<knome> i don't know, i don't think so
<bluesabre> k, I think I might attach the fix to the upload I'm waiting for mr_pouit to do
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,In progress]
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> except, thats probably not okay
<knome> well they are both bugfixes, right?
 * bluesabre would have a much easier time with the ability to upload
<bluesabre> yeah, but different bugs
<ali1234> i found a bug :/
<bluesabre> another one? D:
<ali1234> open two terminals, mark one "always on top", run "notify-send hello" in the other one, wait for notification to disappear, focus has now moved to the "always on top" terminal
<brainwash> isn't that a feature? :)
<ali1234> reported https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10384
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10384 in General ""Always on top" windows steal focus after notification is displayed." [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit, if either of you get a chance to upload this fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> Please include this very minor fix as well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1234448
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1234448 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Encoding error in songtree.layout" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> thanks for getting that patch together, but the encoding problem goes far further. if you look at the debdiff, even translations are corrupt now
<bluesabre> :(
<ochosi> sorry, i'd rather say your patch fixes everything...
<bluesabre> can you give me a quick example
<bluesabre> filename?
<ochosi> one sec, gotta check the diff knome pasted earlier again
<bluesabre> thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: you can e.g. search for "Ã" here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/148671131/gmusicbrowser_1.1.9-2_1.1.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-03
<ochosi> it also affects e.g. gmusicbrowser.pl
<bluesabre> ugh
<ochosi> german translation is also borked
<ochosi> then some names of translators
<ochosi> or plugin-authors (albuminfo.pm)
<bluesabre> yeah, sounds like a bad debdiff
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you grab the gmusicbrowser tarball from the website and see if everything is good in there?
<bluesabre> gotta run, try to be back in a bit
<ochosi> what website?
<bluesabre> http://gmusicbrowser.org/
<bluesabre> "upstream"
<ochosi> ah yeah, that seems fine
<ochosi> i have the git-repo cloned locally
<ochosi> no encoding issues there, as far as i can see
<ochosi> e.g. de.po is fine
<ochosi> and the other stuff seems fine too
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> then I have no idea how to fix it
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you expand on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1234448
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1234448 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Encoding error in songtree.layout" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I'm not sure how to fix the problem, it will probably require a direct upload instead of a debdiff
<bluesabre> so micahg or mr_pouit
<ochosi> what do you mean with "expand on this bug"?
<bluesabre> I'm not sure what all is affected
<ochosi> it's really not easy to say
<bluesabre> the encoding issues don't show as "Ã¯Â¿" in any of my browsers
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> one se
<bluesabre> c
<blueswordlikeite> hey ochosi, please type that character again
<blueswordlikeite> there is an encoding issue in my terminal window
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> Ã
<blueswordlikeite> yup, looks different :D
<ochosi> :}
<ochosi> so maybe that encoding issue of your terminal didn't play out nicely when creating the debdiff..?
<bluesabre> good lord
<ochosi> you mean good grief, right?
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> yes, that
<bluesabre> so as the number of instances approaches infinity...
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I don't even know where to start with that
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit, if you can take a look
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, If it's not actual uploading, i could take a look
<bluesabre> it will eventually turn into uploading, but if you don't mind having a look at it, I'd greatly appreciate it
<bluesabre> yeah, not sure if its a terminal issue or my locale, but I can't seem to produce a diff with anything working correctly
<Noskcaj> looking at the bug, i'm no help at all
<Unit193> bluesabre: `locale`?
<bluesabre> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6186221/
<Unit193> In screen or no?
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6186228/
<bluesabre> ^ screen
<Unit193> See the first two are different?  That char works fine in screen for me though.
<brainwash> woot, they still did not sync screen 4.1.0 from wheezy :/
<brainwash> and now it's too late I guess
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> but we need to include pm-utils by default before it's too late
<brainwash> there is a final dead line, right?
<ochosi> yeah, i guess so
<ochosi> but you'd need to talk to e.g. micahg about that
<ochosi> anyway, bedtime
<ochosi> night everyone!
<brainwash> good night
<brainwash> micahg: can you have a look at bug 1232027 please? hopefully I don't make a big fuss about it (already emphasized this issue several times in this channel)
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<brainwash> I'm just a bit concerned =S
<Unit193> brainwash: There's a bug on that, they decided not to.  screen | 4.1.0~20120320gitdb59704-9 | <redacted> Packages  works for me though. :D
<brainwash> works great for me too
<Unit193> I have it installed on everything except my precise server, there's something I kind of like better in 4.0 that made me keep it.
<brainwash> 4.1.0 comes with some nice additions 
<brainwash> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/tree/src/ChangeLog
<Unit193> I'll take a look to see what's all there, but I'm aware of some of it.  Shift+pgup/pgdown/up/down I still miss, but each screen window having it's own scrollback is nice too.  Recent commit should help/fix extra utf-8 actually show correctly, but Debian doesn't have it (yet.)
<brainwash> use copy mode to navigate the scrollback buffer
<Unit193> I know, the other method is just nicer, unless you want per window, which at times I do. :P
<brainwash> or tell your terminal emulator to do it via shift+..
<Unit193> Doesn't seem to work in 4.1, oddly enough.
<brainwash> ah, that reminds me of the xfce4-terminal segfault I wanted to debug :/
<brainwash> when opening the Set Encoding submenu
<bluesabre> I really don't think automatic updates are working on 13.10
<bluesabre> previously just doing sudo apt-get update you'd get the update notification
<Unit193> bluesabre: Generally for me, it pulled up when apt-get was asking me to confirm updates, which would just annoy me. "Hey heyhey!!1!  Updates are ready for your computer!"  when actually looking at them was just annoying. :P
<bluesabre> I know, but now that does not happen
<bluesabre> which makes me think it is not running/working
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<micahg> brainwash: that's weird that we're the only image except for ubuntu-gnome to not install it
<micahg> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.gnome.general/61230 if anyone has good python foo skills and would like to help develop blueman, assistance is probably welcome
<kristal> Any eta on this bug? The 3 FMs I use are all affected. :-/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1231978
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1231978 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Noskcaj> kristal, not really, but people are working on it
<kristal> Noskcaj: I think this is the first time in 2 years the trash bin has been broken. :)
<Unit193> kristal: gvfs issues, gnome broke something it seems.
<Noskcaj> Did we end up finding what commit caused this?
<kristal> Well of the ten-ish reports the earliest is 2013-9-27, wouldn't take long to stumble upon a bug like that.
<Unit193> I don't really use saucy yet, just when testing some things.  I don't actually use the trash on my systems much anyway. :P
<kristal> how long did it take for the current versino to get into the main repo?
<kristal> bug is probably only a week old
<Noskcaj> kristal, it's part of the .1 release of gvfs, someone was looking for what actual commit caused it
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I've been on saucy since the installer un-broke at the end of may
<Unit193> Good for you?
<kristal> I'm lazy and would just roll back by 1/2, then if you overshoot forward 1/4, then... etc etc classic pathfinding.
<kristal> I installed before the installer unbroke because I used net install lol
<Noskcaj> netboot FTW
<Noskcaj> Unit193, i just wanted an excuse to beat you at something, anything
<Noskcaj> ;0
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Isn't hard. :P
<kristal> I wish all ubuntu spins had naked installs for smaller isos, simply the official distro missing the default software.
<kristal> xubuntu with no pidgin and gnumeric and... 
<Unit193> kristal: I'm working on that, install from mini.iso and install xubuntu-core --no-install-recommends.
<Unit193> s/I'm/we're/g
<Noskcaj> kristal, that's sort of what ubuntu did with ubuntu DVD a while back, but there wasn't enough market to bother
<kristal> Unit193: Nice, Xubuntu-Core will lignted thing up a lot.
<Unit193> Again, not on the official iso or anything, but nevertheless.
<kristal> I think it'd be a nice little feature to have official, faster DL, faster install, faster update after installing...
<kristal> Main Xubuntu wouldn't have to be as concerned with space if there was a niec core version.
<kristal> Core could simply auto start software centre and recommend things.
<Unit193> (USC isn't in core.)
<kristal> Hmm, probally for the better
<kristal> But core with a minimal "here's a list of things you may want" at first start would be interesting.
<kristal> Windows was going to get that believe it or not... 
<kristal> On a fresh install you were going to get: pick your X Y Z
<kristal> But they struck no deals for a variety so it ended up being "do you want to install this monster bundle of ms software" ala windows live/msn/crappyeditor
<Unit193> Anywho, #xubuntu-offtopic 
<Noskcaj> which seed lists all programs on the iso? I need to find what differences in packages are between  xubuntu and lubuntu
<Noskcaj> for bug 1206684
<ubottu> bug 1206684 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Rendering errors at lubuntu language select screen (Install and OEM-setup)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206684
<Noskcaj> On the old pidgin twitter issue, it might be worth looking at https://code.google.com/p/prpltwtr/issues/detail?id=88
<Noskcaj> Someone is willing to pay $100 if it gets fixed (this is a different, but similar app)
<astraljava> Is anyone still having trouble with persistant configuration of preferred applications? Seems that after Chrome was installed, preferred browser setup won
<astraljava> t last.
<astraljava> Oh, oops. Keep forgetting the location of ' in this keyboard.
<Unit193> Might want to check ~/.local/share/ some file under that was a problem for me at one point.
<Unit193> But, thought chrome tended to "take over"
<bluesabre> micahg, glad to see you there briefly
<bluesabre> could you take a moment soon to take care of some bugfix uploads?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1234448
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1234448 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Encoding errors in gmusicbrowser_1.1.10-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> there may be others as well, I'm sure somebody will post them after me
 * bluesabre will work on his developer application today
<ochosi> bluesabre: that sounds like a sustainable thing to do!
<brainwash> some news regarding the trash issue https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708744
<ubottu> Gnome bug 708744 in client module "GDaemonFileEnumerator registers itself on *all* dbus connections" [Normal,Reopened]
<brainwash> (last comment)
<brainwash> can anyone provide a backtrace of this hang?
<brainwash> or anything of value
<brainwash> ochosi: help! :)
<ochosi> brainwash: sorry, lunchtime, bbiab
<astraljava> Unit193: Ok, thanks, I
<astraljava> I'll check it out. (grr)
<brainwash> ochosi: gvfs 1.18.2 "Fix a client side regression in 1.18.1 ..."
<brainwash> after pinging the developer on gnome's irc server and informing him about it we now got a fix :)
<ochosi> uu nice
<ochosi> good work brainwash 
<ochosi> brainwash: you're the thug we send to knock on dev's irc channels in case nasty bugs turn up
<brainwash> we still to test this fix =S
<elfy> ochosi: I can agree with that :)
<brainwash> Does linking the upstream report to the launchpad one also add all the comments?
<ochosi> no, don't think it does
<ochosi> elfy: time to invent a new sub-team of xubuntu-team: xubuntu-thugs (with brainwash, who has a befitting nickname already, as thug overlord)
<elfy> lol
<brainwash> pinging devs, that's my job :)
<elfy> ochosi: nice to see things like that said - especially in a logged channel :p
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> i don't mind if others shiver at the thought of us sending "our guys" to their "doorsteps" (when the topic is bugs-bugs-bugs)
<elfy> I'll add it to my list of T cycle things and make sure there's a Thuggery task : INPROGRESS line on a blueprint somewhere
<ochosi> :p
<brainwash> can anyone clean up bug 1231978? should the upstream gvfs be added to list affected packages/projects with a link to the bugzilla report?
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<brainwash> and the title should be changes too, I guess
<brainwash> to be more general
<brainwash> or whatever? :D
<ochosi> hmm, i'm not a member of the bugsquad, so i can't do all those changes
<ochosi> additionally i'm a bit short on time and need to fix support for gtk3 indicators in our themes...
<brainwash> mainly the dropdown menus?
<brainwash> can an indicator cause that much trouble theme-wise?
<ochosi> yeah, background-color of the indicator-buttons and the menus
<brainwash> last minute changes =S
<ochosi> i'm already a bit used to it
<brainwash> elfy: do you know when and why comments from external bug reports get added to the launchpad comment section?
<elfy> I'm afraid I don't
<brainwash> I would like to link the bugzilla one... but I don't want all the comments to appear in launchpad
<brainwash> =S
<brainwash> ochosi: I'm currently trying to figure out, what exactly happens when xfce4-appfinder daemonizes. the finder initiates the dbus connection and so on, but the dbus interface does not point to the right PID. so we have to wait 5sec (dbus timeout) before the finder appears.
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether it's connected to all kb shortcuts having a delay when starting the session
<ochosi> lotsa dbusy stuff going awry
<brainwash> org.xfce.SettingsDaemon isn't point to a valid PID either
<brainwash> so maybe
<ochosi> are you using the upstart-session again?
<ochosi> i.e. have you tested the fix
<brainwash> uhm, let me test it, didn't actually notice that the update manager pulled the new upstart package
<brainwash> well, I installed every single DE on my test machine and all the top 100 applications... easy to lose track of the update process :)
<ochosi> indeed
<brainwash> btrfs already triggered a kernel panic while balancing /
<brainwash> not enough space available
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> yep, fast logout despite the upstart user session
<ochosi> brainwash: good to hear! (have 160mb of updates pending and very slow connection)
<brainwash> ochosi: some more dbus information, I can't change the wallpaper or change the theme during the session
<brainwash> something isn't working right
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> that's odd
<ochosi> i don't have any problems doing any of that
<ochosi> you can look in the session-settings what's part of the running session, possibly clear it
<ochosi> possibly also check the autostart-stuff
<brainwash> I'll investigate that, quite possible that it started to act strange after filling my disk with all these DEs and apps
<brainwash> same for the appfinder
<ochosi> mm
<brainwash> maybe I should ping nick
<brainwash> about the appfinder
<ochosi> you can give it a shot, yeah
<ochosi> at least you have quite a good track-record ;)
<ochosi> brainwash: can confirm the logout issue being resolved
<ochosi> just switched back to an upstart-session
<elfy> that's odd 
<elfy> wonder if I've had the update then - logout is still long here
<elfy> must have had it - no updates available
<brainwash> proposed
<brainwash> elfy: ^
<elfy> aah 
<elfy> confirm that then :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1234448
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1234448 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Encoding errors in gmusicbrowser_1.1.10-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> please add more details for quentin
<ochosi> bluesabre: he already replied, and i really don't think that's a problem with gmb but with the original debdiff as upstream doesn't have that problem at all
<brainwash> ochosi: when placing the cursor over the trash icon on the desktop, a tooltip with an upscaled image of the icon appears.. worth reporting it?
<brainwash> the home and filesystem icon look nice
<Unit193> brainwash: Talk of update manager in -release.
<Unit193> Also, a reminder that Final Freeze is the 10th.
<knome> final freeze? who cares.
<knome> ;)
<knome> just kidding, thanks for the heads up. i need to get my act together in other areas to be able to do some stuff before that
<Unit193> knome: You do, indicators, gmusicbrowser, and the rest. :P
<knome> freezes are made to be melted
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Yeah!
<brainwash> Unit193: yea, I followed that discussion over there :)
<Unit193> Welp, then ignore me. :)
<brainwash> but the indicator will be still missing
<Unit193> There's still hope for that.
<ochosi> brainwash: that's a feature, supposed to help when looking at images on the desktop (i think)
<brainwash> yea, but we need a proper sized trash bin icon
<brainwash> not the small one upscaled :)
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> lemme check that then
<brainwash> I noticed that thanks to the recent trash freeze issue
<ochosi> what icon theme are you using?
<ochosi> here it just uses a 48px trash icon
<ochosi> filesystem icon is larger
<ochosi> everything it its appropriate size, nothing scaled at all
<brainwash> live mode
<brainwash> so default everything
<brainwash> mmh, ok, the trash icon appears to be a bit blurry
<ochosi> ok, will check later
<ochosi> bbiab
<brainwash> bye
<brainwash> ochosi: it's the trash icon after all, why would anyone even care about it? :D
<ochosi> brainwash: hehe
<ochosi> word
<ochosi> problem is, i'm using xfdesktop4.11
<ochosi> so i can't directly reproduce the issue
<ochosi> but but but, if you want, i can try to submit a patch
<ochosi> and you can try later
<brainwash> ochosi: (greybird) gtk2 apps won't show steppers on their scrollbars, but firefox and libreoffice do it due to "GtkScrollbar::has-backward-stepper = 1" or?
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> intentional?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> thing is, the no-steppers mode works with *most* websites
<ochosi> ...
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> if we wouldn't ship firefox by default, i'd flip the switch
<brainwash> what about numix?
<ochosi> it's not the default theme
<ochosi> default theme should be more robust
<ochosi> (at least imo)
<brainwash> between, I ignored the new theme configurator tool until now... so I opened it randomly and messed around with different colors for like 20 minutes, had much fun trying different color combinations :)
<brainwash> ok, I'll make a local change then
<brainwash> don't like these steppers
<ochosi> yeah, gtk-theme-config is fun
<ochosi> well if you can assure me there are no more pages that dont work with FF when we disable the steppers, i'll gladly disable them
<brainwash> it's like the hidden gem
<ochosi> it's not like i'm a huge fan
<brainwash> any example website?
<brainwash> which is still broken
<ochosi> google-reader used to be
<ochosi> so gÃ¼
<ochosi> g+ might be too
<ochosi> haven't tested it in a while
<brainwash> what about libreoffice?
<ochosi> the fact that you can never test all websites and such a prominent website exposing a bug made me leave it on
<ochosi> well it's not that easy just disabling the steppers for LO
<ochosi> at least i never felt like spending the time
<brainwash> not an easy task to find a website where the steppers are broken/glitched
<ali1234> what are steppers?
<brainwash> the arrows on scrollbars
<ali1234> hmm... and what is the problem with no-steppers on firefox?
<ali1234> orion doesn't appear to have any steppers, i didn't notice any problems
<brainwash> neither does numix
<brainwash> maybe it's all fixed now, no website will glitch when the steppers are missing
<brainwash> (magic)
<ali1234> but what would the glitch look like, if it happened?
<ali1234> maybe i just didn't notice it?
<ochosi> e.g. the scrollbars would be twice the size
<brainwash> would it be even possible to upload such a change? cloak it as "bug fix"?
<ali1234> the audio track selection in parole doesn't work
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-04
<ochosi> brainwash: probably not for 13.10, but for 14.04 we could do it
<bluesabre> ali1234: sometimes it takes a few seconds to change the track
<bluesabre> let me know if it never changes
<pmjdebruijn> hi folks, I'm running Xubuntu Saucy on my netbook, and I changed my mouse pointer to the black set
<pmjdebruijn> however now it's only black some apps
 * pmjdebruijn wonders if it's a GTK2/GTK3 thing?
<brainwash> ochosi: do you keep track of these suggestions or should I file a bug report (git or lp)?
<knome> what suggestion?
<brainwash> one of the was to remove the steppers (arrows) from the scrollbars
<brainwash> (greybird)
<brainwash> because firefox and libreoffice still show them
<knome> the problem?
<knome> i mean, i don't mind that... and i don't think it's too different/noticeable
<brainwash> according to ochosi removing the steppers used to glitch the scrollbars on some websites (they appeared to be twice as big)
<knome> that too
<knome> if removing them brings more bugs... meg
<knome> *meh
<brainwash> I can't reproduce it
<brainwash> so we need to find a website which is actually affected
<knome> maybe that should be investigated then
<brainwash> if any at all
<brainwash> google reader was affected at some point.. but google disabled this service
<brainwash> I'll file a bug report, so we can keep track of this issue
<knome> yep, that's always good
<sheldoraaaa> is there any hardware identify software?
<pmjdebruijn> sheldoraaaa: lshw ?
<pmjdebruijn> that's a console/terminal too though, but it does the job
<pmjdebruijn> ah wait, lshw-gtk is a gui frontend
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, reporting a bug is a good idea to keep it on the radar
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, and here's some more information regarding the appfinder: kill any running instance of xfce4-appfinder/xfrun4, rename your xfce4-appfinder.xml config and now start the appfinder
<brainwash> it should start without delay
<ochosi> aha, weird
<ochosi> so it doesn't affect everyone, it's an upgrade issue
<brainwash> only people who opened the settings dialog
<brainwash> otherwise it won't create a user-specific config file I guess
<brainwash> bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfrun4 launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<brainwash> I'm still trying to understand how the whole appfinder works
<ochosi> hm, no
<ochosi> still launches slowly here
<brainwash> killall -9 xfce4-appfinder?
<brainwash> and maybe xfrun4
<brainwash> ok, can't reproduce it on my vm
<ochosi> still takes 5secs and i get that dbus error
<brainwash> maybe it's the format of the xml file or xfsettingsd after all
<brainwash> this is so odd
<brainwash> ehm, xfconfd
<brainwash> ah, time to fetch the latest updates
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/1.18.2-0ubuntu1
<brainwash> ochosi: should we add this appfinder madness to the 13.10 blue print?
<ochosi> can anyone apart from the two of us reproduce it?
<brainwash> and the people from the bug report
<ochosi> right, but it doesn't seem to be 13.10 specific
<ochosi> it's just a random (annoying) bug, that pops up for some people
<ochosi> so, technically it's not aregression
<brainwash> 13.04 support is ending soon anyway :P
<brainwash> oh, 12.10 should be affected too
<ochosi> yeah, it's a long-standing issue 
<ochosi> but by far not everyone is affected by it
<brainwash> yea, if you don't care about changing the appfinder settings, you won't be affected I think
<ochosi> well that didn't fix things for me
<ochosi> so i
<ochosi> m not sure that's really what's going on
<brainwash> I'll find the culprit, wouldn't be the first time :)
<ochosi> sounds good :)
<ochosi> (and would certainly be good to get that issue resolved once and for all)
<ochosi> Numix and Bluebird should work now with the Gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> Orion and Albatross to go...
<ochosi> jjfrv8: hey, just quickly wanted to ask whether the parole docs are still on your agenda (no biggie if not, but we'd ask around in that case)
<brainwash> ochosi: is the gtk3 panel/indicator plugin available via ppa?
<ochosi> not yet
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> afaik micahg will put it in a PPA asap for testing
<ochosi> or maybe bluesabre will do it, not sure
<ali1234> ochosi: i could put it in a ppa if i knew how to update the packages to git versions
<knome> ochosi, micahg probably is going to do that, but if bluesabre can do it so we can test it, that would be wonderful as well.
<brainwash> ochosi: does the appfinder fail to popup when you first start it / press the kb shortcut?
<brainwash> after a fresh boot or relog (or after killing any existing appfinder process)
<brainwash> can anyone else confirm the delayed start of xfce4-appfinder (alt+F2)?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, it only takes s second to open for me
<brainwash> s? :) 
<slickymaster> hi brainwash in my 13.04 xubuntu box it starts immediately  without any sort of delayed
<slickymaster> delay
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, hi o/
<Noskcaj> brainwash, 1
<Noskcaj> oops
<Noskcaj> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, hope everything is good with you
<brainwash> it's hard to reproduce this issue, I can't force the delay on a fresh installation of xubuntu by changing configs, killing xfce processes,..
<brainwash> between, gvfs has been updated, so thunar shouldn't freeze anymore when emptying the trash, browsing network shares, enabling tree view,...
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-05
<skellat> brainwash: I can confirm that the trash issue is gone
<Unit193> Ah, new gvfs and indicators today.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, yes, the Parole docs are still on my agenda. Other stuff has gotten in the way recently.
<jjfrv8> Should be able to turn my attention to it in the next couple of days.
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, cy tomorrow
<smartboyhw> skellat, congratulations!
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: I've been trying to get it into my ppa with no luck, hopefully micahg can accomplish it
<Noskcaj> Does anyone else's desktop keep freezing?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: xfdesktop? it should not freeze anymore after the recent gvfs update
<brainwash> after deleting files and then hovering over the trash icon
<Noskcaj> brainwash, my issue is different, and i probably caused it. Either the icons disappear or they stop working
<brainwash> Noskcaj: you already updated gvfs to 1.18.2, right?
<Noskcaj> I upgraded thismorning, i'll apt-get update again
<brainwash> the fact that icons disappear indicates a crash of xfdesktop I guess
<brainwash> usually xfdesktop should get restored by the xfce session manager
<knome> congrats skellat 
<brainwash> ochosi: I can't test it right now, but my test installation seems to be affected by https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/35348
<brainwash> ochosi: using numix currently, I'll test other themes later
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hey elfy 
<elfy> keeping busy I hope :)
<knome> heh, a bit too busy
<elfy> :(
<knome> at least to get productive with foss 
<knome> gonna be fourth night in a row not home today
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> you should get someone to remind you were you live ;)
<smartboyhw> elfy, nah, Google Maps is enough;)
<knome> elfy, haha, that's true
<ochosi> ali1234: would be lovely if you could give it a shot, just don
<ochosi> ali1234: 't think i can be of much help, i have very minimal experience with PPAing
<brainwash> finally, ochosi is here :)
<brainwash> ochosi: GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1 does restore the normal scrollbar behavior in gedit (didn't test other gtk3 apps)
<ochosi> brainwash: where does that go?
<ochosi> in the .ini?
<brainwash> it's a env var I guess
<brainwash> can you reproduce the issue?
<brainwash> only noticed it when running Xfce, works normal in unity and gnome3
<brainwash> ochosi: but the most important question remains: does xfce4-appfinder popup when starting it initially (fresh boot or relog)?
<brainwash> it does not for me, the daemonized instance of xfce4-appfinder does get stuck at some point and is not able to respond to dbus messages
<brainwash> from now on starting the appfinder is always deleted, because the dbus communication can't be established
<brainwash> somehow the first window initialization gets stuck when calling "gtk_icon_theme_load_icon()"
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-appfinder/saucy-proposed/view/head:/src/appfinder-model.c#L1914
<brainwash> I'll test the more recent git version now
<brainwash> with gdbus support
<ochosi> with my touchpad there are no problems
<ochosi> will try as soon as i get hold of a mouse
<ochosi> appfinder still doesn't work for me
<ochosi> meaning, your patch/suggestion with the xml config didn't help...
<brainwash> yea, that was a random thingy
<brainwash> so does the appfinder appear if you start it the first time?
<brainwash> rather important question
<ochosi> brainwash: nope, it doesn't seem so
<elfy> is there actually a bug for this - or is it just you 2 with the issue
<brainwash> ok, any idea, why it would get stuck at calling "gtk_icon_theme_load_icon()"? some sort race condition?
<brainwash> bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfrun4 launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<ochosi> it's possible, gotta ask nick about that
<elfy> oh old one
<ochosi> yeah, longstanding one
<brainwash> setting the return value to NULL (don't call that function -> don't load any images) fixes it
<brainwash> it's system specific somewhat
<brainwash> a fresh installation is not affected
<brainwash> but let me first test the git version, before asking nick
<ochosi> yeah, good idea
<brainwash> ochosi: git version works always like expected
<brainwash> backport the thingy, which makes it work magically?
<ochosi> hm, guess you'd have to check which commit fixes it
<ochosi> and then create a patch from that...
<ochosi> (or ask nick to do another release, and we'd get it for 14.04 at least)
<brainwash> ok, I'll ping him
<brainwash> any more info about the gtk3 scrollbar problem?
<brainwash> no clue, what's wrong with it
<brainwash> the workaround works
<ochosi> well as i said, my touchpad works fine
<ochosi> will try to get a hold of a mouse on monday
<brainwash> never mind, found the culprit.. overlay scrollbars
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> gotta go
<ochosi> seeya brainwash 
<brainwash> bye ochosi 
<brainwash> bluesabre: what's the deal with https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes/+merge/187127 ? nobody wants to review it? :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure if you were interested, but systemd-shim came in with the upgrade.
<brainwash> ochosi: so I added a comment to the xfce4-appfinder bug report, don't feel like discussing this topic anymore, so just compile the git version with includes nick's gdbus migration patch
<Unit193> Not hitting that bug with alt+F2.
<brainwash> yea, hardly anyone is affected
<brainwash> btw which upgrade?
<brainwash> 13.04 -> 13.10?
<Unit193> Raring -> Saucy.
<brainwash> raring does ship with systemd-shim I think
<brainwash> no, it does not
<brainwash> getting bored of all these special cases :)
<Unit193> I thought I remembered purging it, but may have been some other sysd package.
<brainwash> I'm pretty sure, that it got pulled in at some point after the release of raring
<brainwash> and I removed it
<Unit193> It was newly installed for the upgrade.
<brainwash> so we just leave things unchanged
<Unit193> Well, all I'm saying is Works for meâ¢
<brainwash> no need to add systemd-shim as dependency
<brainwash> still odd, only ochosi and I were affected by the missing package after upgrading to 13.10
<brainwash> same for the alt+f2 thingy
<Unit193> Well, it is quite easy to purge, doesn't remove anything I haven't already.  Have any other sytemd packages missing? :P
<brainwash> not anymore
<brainwash> but the bug report does not only address the upgrade issue, you can purge the package at any time
<brainwash> but it is somewhat required to restart/shutdown (xfce4-session)
<brainwash> after the switch to systemd/logind
<Unit193> Thus, it'd make sense if xfce4-session depended on it, I'd guess.
<Unit193> (Well, if it works without it, recommends.)
<brainwash> it did recommend consolekit before the switch
<brainwash> ck is now gone
<brainwash> well, deprecated
<brainwash> it looks like most problems affecting xubuntu 13.10 are resolved now
<brainwash> oh, almost forgot the most important one... gtk3 panel indicators :)
<Unit193> Who cares if you can log in and out, where are the indicators!? ;)
<brainwash> the indicators are really important
<brainwash> for the average user
<Unit193> Scrolling over the volume icon is how I change it, yes.  alsamixer is the other way. (And a cronjob that mutes it at night, but that doesn't count.)
<brainwash> time is running out, hopefully there will be a working solution for that before the final release
<brainwash> oh, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<Unit193> Mhmm, I have a VM with that.
<brainwash> I did not even know that such a howto exists on the net (ochosi never told me)
<Unit193> Well, linked to a few times.  xfce4-indicator-plugin from git has two commits after the last release of interest.
<Unit193> I must say, it was pretty painless.
<brainwash> but it won't make it in time for 13.10, or?
<andrzejr> Unit193, brainwash, I can release new version anytime but (a) there is no rush (gtk3 indicator plugin won't be included in 13.10), (b) I'm waiting for an official xfce4-panel release (at the moment indicator plugin depends on an unreleased, non-master branch)
<brainwash> so there is no need to hurry :)
<Unit193> andrzejr: He was going to try and slip it in still, if not release then at least backports.
<Unit193> But yeah, nothing bit yet.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-06
<skellat> Can anybody recall the main bug for the volume indicator not showing?  We got another one to mark as a duplicate and at this hour of night I can't remember the right number for the main bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1235843
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1235843 in Ubuntu "xfce volume icon stuck at mute" [Undecided,New]
<Noskcaj> Has anyone else had thunar randomly crash when clicking the "up one level" button? Doesn't happen every time.
<forestpiskie> skellat: that dupe is duped now
<brainwash> I can confirm bug 1235836
<ubottu> bug 1235836 in Ubuntu "xubuntu 13.10 can't enter password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235836
<elfy> brainwash: checking in a vm now - if I get the same I'll do a bug report for it
<elfy> no idea what package it would be though 
<brainwash> cryptsetup, I edited the affected package
<elfy> ok - I'll check and confirm it too 
<elfy> probably needs to be checked by other flavours as well
<brainwash> I noticed this bug like 1 week ago when installing xubuntu daily, tried different setup options and couldn't get the password prompt for encrypted disk to accept any keyboard input
<brainwash> (didn't bother to file a bug report back then)
<elfy> input after install? 
<brainwash> yes, I think the system did freeze and needed to be restarted the ugly way
<brainwash> usually you don't see any chars when typing the password, right?
<elfy> I'd assume you saw *
<brainwash> maybe something hardware specific
<elfy> seems there's no encrypted testcases for anyone 
<brainwash> this is actually the first report mentioning such an issue
<elfy> I'll try with ubuntu as well
<elfy> eventually
<brainwash> could be plymouth (theme) related..
<elfy> sda5_crypt setup successful
<brainwash> yea, thanks for testing this setup option
<elfy> fine here - no problems at all with today's iso
<brainwash> so it's a rare case
<elfy> booting ubuntu iso to install now
<elfy> brainwash: also - did you use the same iso as the reporter? 
<brainwash> but still, you are only testing it "virtually"
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> I used the daily iso image from 1 week back
<elfy> ok - so can you try with todays?
<elfy> can't imagine it's changed though
<elfy> and I doubt if it's xubuntu specific either if it is there
<brainwash> if it's somehow caused by xubuntu's plymouth theme, it would be :D
<elfy> it's a duplicate bug by the way 
<elfy> ish
<brainwash> link
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/1225136
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1225136 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "13.10 regression: No password asked for encrypted partitions during boot" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> bet they're related
<brainwash> yea.. no.. hard to tell =S
<elfy> :)
<elfy> not something we should worry about though imo
<brainwash> yes, I don't feel like testing it today.. or tomorrow
<brainwash> normally you would expect a bug report with like 200+ heat
<brainwash> if something is wrong
<elfy> unless it is new - and no-one tests it and no-one notices :)
<elfy> there are no manual testcases looking at encrypted setups - not sure about the auto stuff
<elfy> ubuntu is fine as well
<elfy> forgetting all about that conversation now :p
<brainwash> so it's just another bug report nobody cares about :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> assuming that tomorrow I'm not covering the skiver again at work I'll have a go on hardware
<brainwash> are there any bugs left which need some attention? not counting the indicator related ones
<elfy> as far as I know all the ones we've been talking about are all in progress
<elfy> not seen anything new, but I've not been watching the tracker for a few days - r/l things 
<bluesabre> brainwash: I keep pinging micahg and mr_pouit to merge those fixes so we can do an upload
<brainwash> elfy: ok :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: hopefully "soon"
<bluesabre> that's what I've been hoping
<brainwash> so there will be some time left to test the final version
<bluesabre> those two fixes only fix some minor things, so it doesn't really matter
<bluesabre> the main thing now is the indicators
<bluesabre> and has anybody had an update notification while running saucy?
<elfy> nope
<elfy> update mangler runs and opens itself - but no notifications - that said I've got the gtk3 ones here
<bluesabre> I'm going to file a bug for that
<bluesabre> because if it isnt fixed before release, fixes won't be delivered to anybody but the apt-wise
<elfy> bluesabre: which indicators against? 
<bluesabre> I don't understand the question
<elfy> bluesabre: and I am informed of updates - update mangler opens 
<elfy> bluesabre: sorry - I mean gtk3 
<bluesabre> it does open (and show a gui?)
<bluesabre> ?
<elfy> yes
<elfy> update mangler - opens and shows updates
<elfy> there is no notification in the panel though
<bluesabre> without you personally opening the application?
<elfy> yea
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> not a problem then
<elfy> that works properly - just no notification itself
<elfy> as far as I'm concerned the 2 are different things
<brainwash> I've seen it once, the applet.. it told me to upgrade one downgraded package
<elfy> biab
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1206739 is still open, caused by the new glib version shipped by saucy
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks for all the debugging around appfinder
<brainwash> ochosi: didn't ping nick yet, because I somewhat expect a response like "use the upstream version"
<ochosi> hehe, yeah
<ochosi> well we can ask him to do a release
<ochosi> at least a bugfix release
<brainwash> with the gdbus migration patch, which is not included in the saucy build (other upstream patches are though)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> then we could actually also ask that patch to be included in 13.10
<ochosi> but we'd need to get someone to do a debdiff, then find an uploader
 * ochosi doesn't really know how to do proper debdiffs
<brainwash> needs to be tested, that commit I mean.. I just compiled the upstream version and assume that the gdbus migration is doing the magic
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i guess apt-get source xfce4-appfinder -> apply the patch -> see if it works would be the way to go then
<brainwash> yea, I'll test it
<ochosi> cool thanks
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, it's the commit (last comment bug 1048805)
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appfinder launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<brainwash> however, there is an easy workaround, if someone is affected... and almost nobody is
<brainwash> so include the commit and backport it?
<brainwash> quantal/raring/sauce
<brainwash> y
<brainwash> (you should also compile it with the gdbus patch to verify it)
<andrzejr> Guys, it looks like the version of libindicator required by new xfce4-indicator-plugin has not yet been released.
<andrzejr> The most recent version (12.10.2) is missing indicator-ng.h API.
<Unit193> Yes, but that's Ubuntu for you, rolling a newer version in distro than actually released.
<andrzejr> The question is: do you plan a release in a near future or should I temporarily remove support for IndicatorNg?
<andrzejr> As it is now, xfce4-indicator-plugin does not compile on non-ubuntu systems
<Unit193> micahg was still going to try and ship it in Saucy, but failing that he most likely will put them in backports.
<Unit193> Might be able to get the Ayatana project to actually release something, no?
<andrzejr> That would be helpful, especially when they make such a big change to the API.
<andrzejr> xfce4-indicator-plugin also depends on unreleased xfce4-panel so the blame is partly on me - I shouldn't have made a release before all dependencies are released.
<Unit193> Eh, last I saw in #xfce-dev, Nick was going to be looking at merging it in soon, no?
<ochosi> brainwash: gosh, that scrollwheel-bug is really annoying...
<ochosi> andrzejr: well i guess in that case i have to take the blame for the release, cause i kinda talked you into it
<ochosi> but i still think that that's no biggy
<ochosi> getting the ayatana folks to do a release of libindicator makes sense anyway
<ochosi> maybe we can send one of our thugs (brainwash?)
<brainwash> ochosi: still need to talk with nick...
<ochosi> bout what?
<ochosi> appfinder?
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe, and about xfce4-terminal segfaulting
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> the terminal isn't ubuntu-specific?
<brainwash> ochosi: what about the scrollwhell-bug? it's caused by the overlay scrollbar
<ochosi> yeah, but still, it's annoying
<brainwash> ochosi: appears to be glib 2.37+ specific or something like that
<brainwash> wait, no need to prepend your nick all the time :D
<ochosi> thanks ;)
<ochosi> well an upstream-bugreport would be a good first step for the terminal i guess
<brainwash> so why is it annoying? xubuntu users usually don't use the overlay scrollbar
<brainwash> workaround is easy too, simply export the env var
<ochosi> yeah, but it's weird that it breaks such basic functionality
<brainwash> every theme is affected, so... should the xubuntu session set the env var?
<ochosi> i guess, i'm not sure why the scrollbars don't add the env-var themselves
<brainwash> it does work in unity
<ochosi> yeah, wonder whether they set the env_var in the session
<brainwash> maybe it does get set somewhere
<ochosi> btw, i'll flip the switch locally in greybird for the scrollbars
<ochosi> if i don't see any breaking websites anymore, i'll push it
<brainwash> I didn't do any research about this env var, can't even recall it's name :)
<brainwash> nice
<brainwash> btw did you compile the appfinder with the mentioned commit?
<ochosi> not yet, had a "busy" sunday
<ochosi> brb
<brainwash> maybe it can be included, not sure how much work it would cause for the package maintainer(s)
<ochosi> well the main issue is creating the debdiff
<ochosi> an uploader could be found i guess
<brainwash> only for 13.10, or do you also consider updating the packages for quantal and raring?
<ochosi> well mostly for 13.10
<ochosi> and maybe 12.04, because it's the lts
<ochosi> but to me it's not a major issue
<brainwash> it does not affect xfce 4.8
<ochosi> as long as we get a new version in 14.04 i'm fine
<ochosi> right
<brainwash> it mainly affects both of us :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> trueish
<ochosi> for that, the workaround is sufficient
<ochosi> so yeah, i guess i'd focus on more important stuff for now
<ochosi> gotta fix orion for the gtk3 indicators
<brainwash> do you even use the appfinder (regularly)? I don't
<ochosi> yeah, i do
<ochosi> in the xfrun mode
<ochosi> it's quite handy with the custom shortcuts you can make
<brainwash> currently I'm trying to solve this one bug 1234469
<ubottu> bug 1234469 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network does not come up after resuming from suspend." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234469
<ochosi> interesting, i think i've experienced that one before
<brainwash> I did encounter it 3 times today (3x long term sleep)
<brainwash> unlucky I guess, usually it happens very rarely
<ochosi> i'm currently trying to reproduce one of my issues in parole
<ochosi> really hope that one's fixed
<brainwash> dvd playback?
<brainwash> I recall reading about a dvd playback issue
<brainwash> ochosi: does a lp bug report exist which addresses the scroll-wheel issue?
<brainwash> only found the arch one
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> i've never seen a bugreport about that
<ochosi> and in parole i mostly wanna see the mouse-cursor go away always in fullscreen mode
<ochosi> it should work though
<ochosi> one of our few gtk3 blockers
<brainwash> scroll-wheel issue maybe lightdm-gtk-greeter releated?
<brainwash> after the switch to gtk3
<brainwash> bug 1024482
<ubottu> bug 1024482 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor theme does not change from default after login" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024482
<ochosi> the scroll-wheel issue?
<brainwash> read the last comments
<ochosi> hm i see
<ochosi> not sure why this is not assigned to the greeter then
<ochosi> ah, right
<ochosi> it does seem to be lightdm's fault
<brainwash> still not sure what this means, didn't read the bug report properly
<brainwash> is the report useful at all?
<ochosi> i'll have to check tomorrow, am a bit braindead already tonight
<brainwash> I'll create a bug report and link the arch linux and upstream one
<ochosi> cool
<brainwash> ochosi: scroll-wheel in gedit works in unity, gnome3 and even in lxde o.O
<ochosi> then it'd be interesting to know what lxde does..
<brainwash> works in enlightenment too
<brainwash> and the last comments in the arch bug report mention Xfce
<ochosi> hmm
<brainwash> I'm trying to replace xfwm4 with mutter... but the session freezes
<ochosi> strange, i tried gala a while back, that worked
<brainwash> bingo, the scroll-wheel issue is caused by xfwm4, replaced it temporary by openbox and scrolling started to work in gedit
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> so i guess we'd have to do a xubuntu-specific xfwm4 patch
<brainwash> let the overlay scrollbar users suffer :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah possible
<ochosi> hope you included all your findings in the bugreport
<brainwash> yea, I'll file it tomorrow-ish
<ochosi> nice
<brainwash> would it be possible to add the workaround? or should it be a patch for xfwm4?
<ochosi> well, the proper solution seems to be the latter
<brainwash> even upstream?
<brainwash> (first someone actually has to write a patch)
<ochosi> well the question is whether upstream would accept a patch that is kinda distro-specific
<ochosi> don't think the overlay-scrollbars are available anywhere else
<brainwash> arch users apparently use them too
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-29
<Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/564e8e96/ oh bah.
<skellat> Spanish translation fail in building?
<Unit193> Not fail, but problems/errors/etc yeah.
<ochosi> morning folks
<ochosi> knome: yeah, looks like that bug never got fixed. not sure why, i guess debian didn't pick it up and we forgot about it https://bugs.launchpad.net/gmb-shimmer/+bug/1019157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019157 in Shimmer for gmusicbrowser "Change default playback-order from "shuffle" to something more intuitive" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> would make sense though to install our own gmbrc.default file via xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> at least i hope that that'd be a possible route, otherwise i'd argue that everyone benefits from these defaults
<knome> ochosi, right, but shipping it in x-d-s is not a solution for gmb-shimmer, it's a xubuntu solution
<knome> but sure, the effect for *us* is the same
<ochosi> frankly, i'm not sure what gmb-shimmer even is anymore
<knome> me neither, but i think we should start to clear that idea in our heads
<knome> now did you already look at sp.org?
<ochosi> nope, was away all weekend and am rather buried in work
<knome> i reviewed and refreshed all the project descriptions
<ochosi> that looks nicer and more structured
<knome> there's something else as well i've been putting off until you're back
<ochosi> could probably use some dash of color somewhere
<knome> just a sec
<knome> well, yeah, i plan to change the theme
<knome> it's just a placeholder for now
<ochosi> okie
<knome> so, what do you think of this:
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/shimmer/.logo/2014-logo-refresh.png
<knome> oh hmm
<knome> :P
<knome> i apologize, will take it elsewhere! :P
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> hm, new xffm/rodent release
<bluesabre> might poke around with that tonight
<bluesabre> but, only here for a tiny bit
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> hf
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-30
<Noskcaj> been away the last few days, did i miss anything?
<knome> Noskcaj, looking at the lastlong, not much
<brainwash> Noskcaj: the Xfce4 package recommends desktop-base which installs some debian related wallpapers and customizations. could this dependency be lowered to Suggests in ubuntu?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Probably. Maybe check kde and gnome's metapackages too
<brainwash> there is one unresolved report bug 1080865
<ubottu> bug 1080865 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Debian instead of Ubuntu grub splash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080865
<brainwash> not sure how these meta packages are named :)
<brainwash> looks like gnome is just gnome
<brainwash> gnome does depend on desktop-base
<brainwash> I'll ignore this problem then, better not break anything
<knome> it sounds interesting
<knome> what in desktop-base do we need?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Please file a bug about it
<brainwash> well, we don't really anything debian related
<brainwash> it's the xfce4 meta package which recommends it, and we somewhat care about the default xfce4 session/installation, or? :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: a new report? what about the existing one?
<Noskcaj> Didn't see your link, just use the old one. Try and push for a fix
<brainwash> bug 1080865
<ubottu> bug 1080865 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Debian instead of Ubuntu grub splash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080865
<brainwash> ... bot ...
<brainwash> why u so slow?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: ok, I'll try to ask the ubuntu devs too
<elfy> let's see if vm's boot to todays daily 
<elfy> that'll be no then
<elfy> so I have a new not starting bug apparently
<elfy> bug 1375805 if anyone can confirm that 
<ubottu> bug 1375805 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm fails to start in VirtualBox " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375805
<elfy> sudo grep SEGV /var/log/syslog echoing nothing at tty1 before starting lightdm
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<elfy> work
<elfy> :)
<elfy> seem to have a fix at least
<brainwash> elfy: did you or anyone else talk to the ubuntu devs about the ubiquity black screen bug?
<brainwash> ehm, black background
<brainwash> luckily not a black screen :)
<elfy> I've not done so no
<elfy> not sure if anyone has - I've been tied up in getting an install to boot at all
<brainwash> but that's still the vm only problem, right?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> I guess that we should get some logs, "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" should collect some
<brainwash> elfy: do you also test on normal hardware?
<elfy> at milestones I do 
<brainwash> ok then, I'll just download the daily and see if I can get some logs
<brainwash> can't be that hard to fix the black background
<elfy> just booting today's on hardware
<elfy> not sure I saw it when I did the beta test on hardware tbh
<brainwash> run ubuntu-bug and mark it as duplicate of the existing bug
<brainwash> or would apport-collect work too? it's not your report
<elfy> mmmm
<elfy> so usb just goes straight to desktop - no choice - using the ubuntu usb tool
<elfy> oh nvm - got black background now
<brainwash> in the actual live session?
<elfy> no - prior to that - wasn't really watching it properly :)
<brainwash> ah :D
<elfy> brainwash: just reporting it again but to ubiquity - any logs you think would be useful to attach
<elfy> bug 1375893
<ubottu> bug 1375893 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375893
<elfy> bug 1284910 was the one we had last time where we had the debian background at that point iirc
<ubottu> bug 1284910 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu|Mythbuntu|UbuntuStudio installers have debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910
<elfy> that's the one that xnox got involved with - and I'm positive I remember that going on
<brainwash> elfy: thanks, now we got something to work with
<elfy> ready steady go :p
<Unit193> Anyone know Spanish and docbook?
<Unit193> es/settings-preferences.xml:373 is all tangled up.
<pleia2> I think that's what GridCube is for <3
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+merge/236589 that fixes the easy one.
<GridCube> i pinged the translator team a week ago but got no response
<GridCube> i will try to get them again
<Unit193> I'm actually referring to a bad translation, broke the docbook structure.
<GridCube> bbl
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :/ my friends might got thta messed up
<Unit193> line 973 in es.po: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+pots/desktop-guide/es/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Temas+GTK
<Unit193> New xfce4-screenshooter in Debian only closes Debian #763387.
<ubottu> Debian bug 763387 in src:xmlrpc-c, xfce4-screenshooter "xmlrpc-c transition breakage" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/763387
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<skellat> Good evening
<bluesabre> Hey skellat
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-01
<bluesabre> anybody know when the ubiquity black background started this cycle?
<bluesabre> I think one of the last times this happened, it was because ubiquity broke symlink support
<bluesabre> hm, it looks like ubiquity only sets the background to black
<bluesabre> and that xfsettingsd is assumed to set it
<Unit193> Last time x-d-s had to use gsettings/gconf/etc to set it.
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8469614/
<bluesabre> maybe this is the problem... No such schema 'org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.background'
<bluesabre> going to try trusty iso and see what that same log has in it
<Unit193> [org.gnome.desktop.background]
<Unit193> picture-uri='file:///usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-wallpaper.png'
<Unit193> Pretty sure that was added, yeah.
<bluesabre> good news is that we can probably cheat and drop feh into our live deps
<bluesabre> but we can do better than that :)
<bluesabre> dang, nothing really different between the two logs
<ochosi> hey folks, sorry can't make the meeting tonight
 * ochosi will be travelling again
<ochosi> bbabl
<knome> boo ;)
<PaulW2U> elfy, re bug #1351590, great to see my bug report in the Xubuntu Beta 2 release notes but I'm no longer seeing this bug on any *buntu flavour
<ubottu> bug 1351590 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Cannot configure wi-fi in a live-session without logging out and back in again" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1351590
<PaulW2U> I don't know if anyone has specifically tested for this bug but I feel that it should either be closed or marked as invalid
<PaulW2U> I'll carry on testing all flavours for a while but Xubuntu was the only flavour that acknowledged this bug
<elfy> PaulW2U: pretty much what happens is if I see bugs in tests recently I'll list them
<elfy> things like that are particularly hard for me to deal with as wifi just works for me :)
<PaulW2U> OK, my test laptop only uses wi-fi so if I'm not seeing that bug close to release time I may mark it incomplete if no-one else confirms it before then.
<elfy> ok - if no-one else reports it I'll ignore it from now on 
<PaulW2U> great, no point in littering release notes that only one person has seen and may be hardware specific anyway ;)
<elfy> anyone seen slickymasterWork lately
<knome> i've never seen him
<knome> :P :P :P
<slickymasterWork> there's still 2 minutes
<slickymasterWork> correction, one now
<slickymasterWork> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<slickymasterWork> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct  1 18:00:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is slickymasterWork. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dkessel> I'll try to participate somehow today. If I can...
<pleia2> o/
<slickymasterWork> So who's here for the meeting?
<elfy> possibly :)
<slickymasterWork> #chair knome pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2 slickymasterWork
 * dkessel 
<slickymasterWork> with just three attendants it will be a quick one I guess :P 
<elfy> ignoring me then are you :|
<slickymasterWork> knome, ping
<slickymasterWork> now elfy, you were included in those three, with pleia2 and dkessel 
<slickymasterWork> s/now/no
<slickymasterWork> anyway
<slickymasterWork> #topic Open action items
<slickymasterWork> I guess the only open item is QA Incentives
<slickymasterWork> http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<elfy> not sure why that's still there tbh 
<pleia2> I still have to contact the sticker folks
<pleia2> should have a plan for when they say "sure, we'll send you X, where to?"
<pleia2> I can be the sticker mule and ship them out from here
<slickymasterWork> thanks for that pleia2 
<dkessel> hmm that pad does not state the goal of the incentives intiative, or does it?
<pleia2> the goal is to make people do testing ;)
<dkessel> define testing
<elfy> dkessel: check out the numbers of people testing - should be self-explanatory then
<dkessel> run manual tests?
<slickymasterWork> yes, increase the number of reported tests
<elfy> and images
<pleia2> package and iso tests
<dkessel> ok ok. i was not part of the discussion that lead to that pad ;)
<pleia2> see line 3 :)
<dkessel> making automatic test coverage better could be another goal
<knome> pong
<slickymasterWork> wb knome ;)
<elfy> dkessel: images are tested daily - or should be - that though doesn't mean it catches all bugs with that - reference all the vm bugs, the black background missing and others
<elfy> and auto package testing we've been trying to get off the ground for 3 cycles 
<elfy> that is still currently grinding it's face along the floor
<dkessel> i remember...
<dkessel> if only i had more time
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> anyway, per what pleia2 stated I don't think we should consider it as # done
<slickymasterWork> or does anyone has a different view?
<elfy> I agree - but I don't see there's much to be gained by bringing it up each week - unless we just postpone it week by week
<pleia2> we should split it into action items
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, knome, what are your views ^^
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to contact unixstickers
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to contact unixstickers
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<slickymasterWork> moving on
<slickymasterWork> #topic Team updates
<elfy> that's the only urgentish bit - the t-shirts aren't needed till after 15.04 releases
<slickymasterWork> elfy, beta 2. The floor is yours
<elfy> I can go - got mine in a txt file
<elfy> #info  Final Beta testing 64bit 9 install tests, 6 livesession and 3 post install tests
<elfy> #info  Final Beta testing 32bit 9 install tests, 7 livesession and 2 post install tests
<elfy> #info  Final Beta testing Team Testing - (excluding XPL & QA Lead) - 5 team members (50%) tested images during Final Beta, 3 outside team tested. 10 total.
<elfy> that's the beta stuff
<elfy> #info bug 1375893 needs to be sorted soon
<ubottu> bug 1375893 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375893
<elfy> #info vm bug(s) still present - should be fixed tomorrow (2/10)
<elfy> done
<slickymasterWork> well, half of the team did manage to test :)
<GridCube> \o
<slickymasterWork> that's an improvement
<elfy> not good really - 9 tests for each arch
<slickymasterWork> those numbers are better then beta1 anyway
<elfy> pointless me saying anymore on that
<GridCube> is that more or less than last cycle averages?
<elfy> I would guess that we got more people testing 1 milestone last cycle than we've had test the whole of this cycle
<GridCube> thats quite bad
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but last cycle was a LTS one
<elfy> yep - I've given up tbh - I just send the calls out because I said I would
<knome> yes, LTS+1 is always slow and quiet
<elfy> and someone should 
<knome> still more or less afk
<GridCube> thats understable elfy 
<elfy> knome: that may be so - but I expect more from -team
<elfy> some haven't tested and reported all cycle
<elfy> I shouldn't have to ask team seperately 
<slickymasterWork> and that's to be expected elfy. -team should set an example
<knome> yes, agree, and i'm sorry
<elfy> move on to whoever else has team updates 
<elfy> knome: I'm not pointing fingers at *anyone* - team is team
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, any marketing updates?
<knome> yes, we should get better with 15.04...
<pleia2> #info knome and pleia2 working to engage users more with #LoveXubuntu idea: http://pad.ubuntu.com/Nl1LbS6DqL
<pleia2> I think that's it for now
<knome> yep, will put some time to that
<elfy> never seen that
 * slickymasterWork neither
<knome> well, that's a new idea;)
<pleia2> it evolved out of some engagement discussions in the spring, we finally came up with an idea ;)
<elfy> should perhaps have been on agenda or should be in future then
<pleia2> it's not happening immediately, just a quick fyi now, we'll flesh it out and agendaize it later
<elfy> k
<slickymasterWork> ok, I think we can safely skip 'Announcements' or does anyone have any? 
<slickymasterWork> right
<slickymasterWork> #topic Discussion
<slickymasterWork> #subtopic list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
<slickymasterWork> so, with the intention of encouraging people to translate, knome come up with the idea of either creating a wikipage that lists all software that we ship/care about and where their translations are being done or update the "Get involved" page for translations
<slickymasterWork> so we sketched up a listing of projects of which translations, Xubuntu care about -> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations
<slickymasterWork> the idea would be to have a sane list of projects we need/want to maintain translations for
<knome> ^ that list should probably go to the "processes" page
<slickymasterWork> yes, but firstly I would like that -team would have some sort of an opinion on the list itself
<slickymasterWork> any takers?
<elfy> might have been useful to have it on the agenda - no-one knew you were going to discuss it :)
<knome> yes, but since processes is editable by anyone any time, we should drop that list there soonish
<slickymasterWork> that's my fault :P
<knome> well it's brought up now P
<elfy> currently that list looks sane
<slickymasterWork> elfy, any app you think that might/ought be added?
<knome> assign a work item to me to send a mail to the list and i'll do that today
<slickymasterWork> or dropped?
<elfy> slickymasterWork: why are the out of scope ones there?
<slickymasterWork> #action knome to send a mail to the list regarding list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a mail to the list regarding list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
<slickymasterWork> to which ones are you referring elfy ?
<elfy> the 4 in the out of scope list
<elfy> gimp, abiword, gnumeric and gmb
<slickymasterWork> those were/are ment for discussion
<elfy> still ambivalent about gmb anyway - not sure we should seed that at all 
<elfy> parole plays music
<knome> elfy, that's another discussion, and i partly agree
<slickymasterWork> but just plays music
<knome> but let's leave that for some other time
<elfy> using the same argument that we used for xchat/pidgin - we don't need both
<slickymasterWork> elfy, pidgin is going to be used as IRC interface
<elfy> ok - well lets deal with the translations first - sorry :)
<slickymasterWork> I'll add this item to the agenda for the next meeting
<slickymasterWork> anything else?
<elfy> why not discuss it in a moment?
<slickymasterWork> sure
<dkessel> i would suggest including abiword and gnumeric in "Used by Xubuntu"
<dkessel> as they are the default office applications, and office apps are important for users
<elfy> so - translations - I'd guess that those for anything we have as default should be covered 
<knome> i'll send comments on the mail for the reason why they are not on the list
<knome> elfy, you/we can discuss gmb now, but i'm more or less off
<elfy> if it's an issue of people and time - that's something else 
<knome> so it wouldn't be very sensible...
<elfy> knome: that could be said for any discussion we have where we've only got 2 or 3 people kicking about 
<knome> it's that; and gnome has it's own translation teams, and i don't think translating gnumeric/abiword is the #1 item for our translators who already are limited and have limited time
<elfy> knome: ok - I can ack that concern completely 
<knome> elfy, i'm not saying you can't have the discussion, but i can't bring any thoughts in it :)
<knome> but as i said, yes, we should consider dropping gmb
<knome> though i'd like *some* media player that handles *collections* in some way as a replacement
<dkessel> ok, then it is sane to only list default apps where there are not many people currently involved with translations...
<knome> but that's something i don't have time to argument for
<slickymasterWork> the way I see that list has to be a compromise between the perspective of newly come into xubuntu/linux ecosystem users and what existing xubuntu users are interested in
<elfy> I'd be happier perhaps to see the out of scope items called when we've got time :)
<knome> the #1 thing to translate is the xubuntu documentation
<knome> then we got all the core components + xfce
<knome> then everything else that's seeded in xubuntu
<knome> and then everything in the repository
<slickymasterWork> it's up to the -team to prioritize the translations elfy 
<elfy> I've not got a problem with saying foo is more important to us than bar
<knome> there will *always* be fallback items
<elfy> out of scope just suggests never to me :)
<knome> and there is always people who rather use their time translating gnumeric than xubuntu docs, so *shrug*
<slickymasterWork> and we must not forget that all xfce stuff is already covered by https://wiki.xfce.org/translations
<knome> elfy, yes, they wouldn't be on the list if they don't move to any other group :)
<elfy> as it stands - that list looks sane to me in general
<slickymasterWork> pleia2 what's your take on this?
<slickymasterWork> mm, okay. Anything else?
<slickymasterWork> right, so who's next chairing?
<elfy> pleia2
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, want to schedule now?
<slickymasterWork> lol, she fall asleep :)
<slickymasterWork> #action pleia2 to schedule the next meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule the next meeting.
<slickymasterWork> that's it
<slickymasterWork> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct  1 18:38:51 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-01-18.00.moin.txt
<elfy> so we'll not bother starting a discussion on gmb then lol 
<slickymasterWork> I'll be glad to elfy, but first I have to go home for dinner :P
 * slickymasterWork damns https://login.ubuntu.com
<elfy> hating on the wiki again :)
<slickymasterWork> I'm still waiting on it to login :P
<slickymasterWork> minutes are finally up
<slickymasterWork> I'm off now
<slickymasterWork> cy later ->
<pleia2> sorry, had a call
<dkessel> hmm. does anybody have an idea how to debug what "update-manager -d -c" is doing all the time? i am trying to do an 14.04 -> 14.10 update test and it is not doing anything anymore after selecting "upgrade..." - yet the process is not finished...
<dkessel> i'll just file a bug
<dkessel> there you go: bug 1376414
<ubottu> bug 1376414 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from xubuntu 14.04 to 14.10 fails, no user feedback" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376414
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-02
<Noskcaj> Should we turn on webm thumbnailing in tumbler? http://git.xfce.org/xfce/tumbler/commit/?id=ec33c5395438fb4662b17d07d5463483fbdecdc3
<Unit193> Normally I'd say it's a bit late in the release for that, but that's such a small change.
<Noskcaj> And it seems to just be checking another sort of mkv, not a full new format
<Noskcaj> branch pushed
<Noskcaj> Also, i forgot about https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10916 , and now we've got 5 days to fix it
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10916 in General "Plugin has to be updated or will soon stop working" [Normal,Reopened]
<Unit193> Mmmm, fancy.
<elfy> systemd update fixes vm installs - looking hopeful for today's daily \o/
<dkessel> elfy: yay \o/
<elfy> did a bit of fiddling about with the incentive pad
<elfy> knome: I like the certificate idea - I've added some comments re that - would be good to have some sort of costing for it
<elfy> also if we do this then the people who get foo could be named on the weekly newsletter
<elfy> bluesabre: did you get anywhere with the black background to try/install at all?
<Unit193> Last I saw, worked on it but got nothing so far.
<elfy> yea saw that Unit193 
<Unit193> Then nevermind.
<elfy> heh - thanks anyway :)
<knome> elfy, you mean estimate of the costs? pretty low, just design and print it on your printer :P
<knome> or if we want higher quality, get better paper and still print it on your printer
<knome> i don't think it would come very sensible to print one sheet in a commercial printer
<knome> and at least companies which offer easy/quick photocopying and/or printing here do not have very special printers to be able to print on a high quality paper
<knome> well, as fas as i know anyway
<knome> and added to the pad:
<knome> we could send certificates to everybody who did "at least X" testing during LTS
<knome> with that, it might even become somewhat sensible to print them on a commercial printer
<knome> (and we could include QA lead and XPL)
<elfy> image installs and boots in vbox :)
<elfy> knome: I'd say nicest paper you could get away with 
<ochosi> awesome, server went down...
<ochosi> anyway, if there's anything relevant i missed (apart from the meeting logs, which i'll go through in a bit) please lemme kn ow
<elfy> wb ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> elfy: is the vm bug already fixed?
<ochosi> and was there any movement wrt black background in ubiquity?
<elfy> ochosi: the vm bug is fixed - last saw that bluesabre was working on the black background
<elfy> so ... at the moment all is well with just that issue hanging over us afaik
<ochosi> while the black background there might not be pretty, it's not (very) critical
<ochosi> luckily a rather cosmetic issue
<elfy> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-03
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you please apply the changes at http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce?view=revision&revision=8629 to ubuntu and upload ASAP? I didn't get a branch made before i left real internet access
<Noskcaj> and weather plugin will break in 2 days if it's not
<Noskcaj> thanks
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I'll try to, travelling a lot starting in a few minutes, will try to do it from the hotel tonight
<bluesabre> also need to upload new menulibre, its been stuck on PAPT for a week now
<bluesabre> I'll take care of all that though
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> also, just curious, what happens in 2 days?
<knome> work item from meeting done
<knome> bluesabre, how's getting upload rights (added to the xubuntu packageset) for the ubiquity-slideshow is going?
<knome> -is
<knome> pleia2, duh, you beat me.
<slickymaster> knome, there are at least two users complaining about being unable to access http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations
<slickymaster> in the ML that is
<knome> yes, lyz replied to them
<pleia2> they both signed up to the lp team
<slickymaster> ok, thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> sure
<slickymaster> oh, btw pleia2, can I still wish you a happy birthday, even though I'm late :(
<pleia2> of course! thank you :)
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> pleia2, what about the japanese mirrors?
<slickymaster> knome, thanks for the improvement in that pad ^^
<knome> np
<knome> did you like the email as well?
<slickymaster> yeaps
<slickymaster> wouldn't change anythingn in it
<slickymaster> well, I would remove a name
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-04
<ochosi> hi everyone
<dkessel> hey ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey dkessel, what's up?
<Pwnna> is there any way to launch a secure shell?
<Pwnna> to prevent key logging?
<Pwnna> without going into xterm..
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-05
<Noskcaj> How come shimmer and -darkest have the dark grey panel icons, and -dark and -darker have white ones
<ochosi> Noskcaj: darkest is the version with the darkest icons, incl. the panel. so it can be used with e.g. orion
<Noskcaj> ochosi, But why go from a dark icon to a light one from normal to dark and darker
<ochosi> i'm following Faenza there
<ochosi> i felt it makes sense to do it analogously, since Faenza was a rather popular theme
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> morning folks
<bluesabre> packaging time
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> bluesabre, question: why ubuntu1 for the menulibre release? isn't it the same as 2.0.6?
<bluesabre> knome: because of the upstream translations we have on top of it
<bluesabre> and/or strings
<bluesabre> (this was all your idea ;) )
<knome> aha, fair enough
<knome> just asking :)
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> but couldn't you have basically release 2.0.6.1 ? :P
<knome> with those translations, then be able to lose the delta
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> but can't change strings for trusty
<knome> can't and can't ;]
<knome> yeah
<knome> fair enough
<knome> good answer
<bluesabre> packaging trusty now
 * knome gives bluesabre a chocolate chip cookie
 * bluesabre celebrates
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: Please target https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+bug/1377612 to Precise and Trusty. Same package version in Trusty as Utopic, but we'll have to come up with new patches for the Precise package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1377612 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu) "Plugin needs updated for locationforecast-1.2" [Undecided,New]
 * bluesabre adds [SRU] tab
<bluesabre> and tag
<bluesabre> taking a short break, bbl
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<knome> oi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<vertz> ok, wtf is overwriting ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/pointers.xml ?
<vertz> this must be fixed
<vertz> kinda sucks pasting all sorts of things in random terminals
<vertz> default verticaledge scroll is on
<vertz> and buttom something
<vertz> easy fix! just commit it
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Done. And it's fixed in debian if you'd like to sync it
<knome> vertz, you can send a patch for review.
<vertz> knome: yes sir, first thing in the morning
<knome> ta.
<vertz> its just been so annoying
<knome> and while you're at it, if you think something is overwriting that, maybe find out what
<knome> then we'll process that.
<vertz> yeah
<vertz> cause i set all the settings to 0 in ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/pointers.xml
<vertz> but it still happened
<vertz> so something must override it
<vertz> i'll do some research tomorrow :)
<knome> vertz, re: PM, default setting issues should be reported against xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> about the overriding issue, don't know
<knome> you could file that against the same package as well since it might (though it might not) be a configuration issue
<vertz> knome: alright man, i'll have a look into it tomorrow after some sleep
<vertz> cause this is like a securty problem
<vertz> i pasted my password in a chan  without noticing
<vertz> hehe
<knome> vertz, cheers.
<vertz> i'll have it figured out by tomorrow
<vertz> now i need some sleep
<vertz> thank you knome 
<vertz> :)
<knome> no problem and good night
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey again ::)
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> whats happenin'?
<ochosi> not much
<ochosi> just returned, but about to head off to bed
<ochosi> had a relaxing weekend, really needed that
<ochosi> how're you?
<bluesabre> doing well, long weekend so far, going slow tonight
<ochosi> what
<ochosi> what've you been up to?
<bluesabre> friend'
<bluesabre> s wedding yesterday
<bluesabre> catching up today
<ochosi> thanks for picking up on my enter-hitting mistakes :)
 * ochosi is cluuuumsy
<bluesabre> yeah, was honestly a mistake and not messing with you :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> suure ;)
<bluesabre> drafting ideas for backup/restore/reset dialog for menulibre
<ochosi> anyway, xnox pinged me back about that ubiquity bug today
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> whats up?
<ochosi> said he would look into it
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-28
<Nairwolf> Hi, I would like to give my help to test Xubuntu before the release of xubuntu 15.10
<Nairwolf> Apparently, it's better today to install the latest daily version, right ? 
<Nairwolf> If I choose to continue with this daily version, will I have updates ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: if you install with a daily (or the last if you do so today) then just update it as you would anything 
<flocculant> you'll always be current 
<Nairwolf> And, do you know how I could do to still have my software installed in my last distribution ? Can I take my software installed from dpkg and install them again on 15.10 ? 
<flocculant> if they're available no reason why not 
<flocculant> there is a command you can run to grab what you've got currently and then use to reinstall 
<flocculant> I'd love to help - but just off to work now 
<Nairwolf> okay, I'll search by myself
<dkessel> my own support question coming up in #xubuntu :)
<dkessel> i wonder if that problem affects other trusty users as well... she doesn't have a too customized install...
<dkessel> too bad i cannot even create a screenshot because of the problem
<flocculant> this is ringing a bell - not very clearly though - just at the edge of hearing ... 
<dkessel> taking an old fashioned camera screenshot
<dkessel> i guess some package upgrade might have gone wrong
<flocculant> I'm convinced I've seen this before 
<flocculant> and seeing that screenie - proved I'd seen it before - but still couldn't find anything :)
<dkessel> mhh let's see if !vnc does anything...
<dkessel> nope
<flocculant> knome: can you not do anything at all with the QA page on site without letting me know please :)
<pleia2> publisher flyers post http://xubuntu.org/news/printable-shareable-xubuntu-flyers/
<pleia2> social media-ing now
<pleia2> except facebook, which is being all wounded platypus
<knome> flocculant, huh?
<knome> pleia2, huzzah
<pleia2> I'll have another Xubuntu At... article up for review in a few days
<knome> oh cool
<knome> i'm still waiting mine
<pleia2> but my work/life is eating me, so /o\
<knome> >__<
<pleia2> yeah, I still have questions out for another
<knome> mhm
<pleia2> but I'll wait until November to publish another
<knome> yep
<knome> we could set up a schedule
<flocculant> knome: I'm doing some work with it locally - don't want to live one to change :)
<knome> flocculant, oh - righto - won't
<flocculant> :)
 * Unit193 pokes the QA page.
 * flocculant pokes the Unit193 
<flocculant> having bunches of fun with nesting lists ... 
<knome> flocculant, if you need formatting help, don't hesitate to ask for help
<flocculant> yep I will - but trying not to ask :D
<flocculant> learning stuff bit by bit 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> knome: you has mail 
<knome> ooh!
 * knome checks
 * flocculant has headache 
<knome> haha
<knome> flocculant, we might want to mention that images == ISOs
<knome> i mean, in a clearer way
<knome> or just talk about the other at all times
<flocculant> yea was thinking about that while I was writing 
<knome> might be that it was like this in my previous draft, but kind of popped up now
<flocculant> I'll probably change image to iso everywhere 
<knome> usre
<knome> sure too
<flocculant> as most other places in *buntu talk of iso
<knome> yep
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> i'm doing some small changes
<knome> i'll reply to you with the modded file
<knome> like fixing some links to cleaner forms
<knome> and i found a strong tag with no content
<flocculant> apart from testcases on the trackers - which call them images :|
<knome> haha
<knome> maybe file a bug against them ;)
<flocculant> noooooooooooooooooooooooooo 
<knome> D:
<flocculant> knome: why some tags em and some strong? 
<flocculant> oh nvm 
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah, em is italic, strong is bold
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> ok, replied
<knome> feel free to run a diff
<knome> but i basically only did what i mentioned
<flocculant> remembered aas soon as I hit enter ... 
<knome> and s/Isos/ISOs/ in one place
<knome> some really small things really
<knome> good work
<flocculant> thanks
<knome> and yeah, as you can imagine by the time it took me to reply to that - the content review was super fast only
<flocculant> heh 
<flocculant> it was mostly just making sure syntax was right - I want to review it in a day or so anyway
<knome> yep
<knome> that's also why only super fast review for content only
<knome> -only
<flocculant> apart from anything I got to filing and stopped - want to check that's what I want yet 
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> pretty sure it is - but words 
<knome> words are words
<flocculant> yep - and lot of words is that :D
<flocculant> ok cheers for those small changes :)
<knome> np
<flocculant> now that I've seen the tracker calling them images - and that's where we're sending people - probably better if our page matches that - we can note they're the same thing
<knome> yep
<flocculant> anyway - another day for that :)
<knome> yep
<knome> ok, look at the status tracker frontpage
<flocculant> added this reworking to bp 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ok looking - what am I missing that you;ve done? 
<knome> the titles are links?
<flocculant> oh yea - I thought they were yesterday? 
<knome> nope:D
<knome> did that change literally minutes ago
<flocculant> I got Spec Actions Progress
<knome> yeah...
<knome> the specification text
<knome> is a link...
<knome> it wasn't until a while ago
<knome> eg. you can click on the QA spec title
<knome> to get to the qa spec work items
<flocculant> aah - I guess I was mid change :)
<knome> :)
<flocculant> that looks better than it did just a moment ago :)
<knome> hehe
<flocculant> suggest you lose Whiteboard 
<flocculant> I still miss what I miss though 
<knome> i should just make it work
<flocculant> or that :D
<knome> because it's clearly useful
<knome> and it's saved in the database
<flocculant> right
<knome> done
<flocculant> well - time for me to crash - night knome and lurkers
<flocculant> oh - well I'll look first :)
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<flocculant> knome: looks the same to me Edit works, whiteboard links to http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#
<knome> do a hard refresh
<flocculant> I did 
<knome> ctrl+shift+r in firefox
<knome> are you sure you have js enabled? :P
<knome> the link target *is* totally #
<knome> but it still does magic
<flocculant> not a clue - everything else works 
 * knome shrugs
<knome> it'll likely work for you when you'll least expect
<flocculant> ohhh
<knome> or are we missing elliptical circles again?
<flocculant> like then - was expecting to middle click and it open in new tab at b/p whiteboard :)
<knome> aha
<knome> nope
<flocculant> ok - so now - night all :)
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<knome> yw
<knome> good night
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-29
<pleia2> wrangled people from social media into submitting bugs re: the flyer \o/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing
<pleia2> knome: be very nice to them, they are fragile and new ;)
<pleia2> I really like the idea of including the pronunciation of xubuntu on the flyer
<pleia2> QR codes is a good idea too
<knome> mhm
<knome> got to reply them tomorrow
<Unit193> bluesabre: d/control in xubuntu-artwork, need to update vcs-browser.
<knome> pleia2, i was wondering late last night if we could do the flyer in docbook so we could allow translations more easily :P
<flocculant> knome: how do we want to go about referencing external web data (specifically bits of bluesabre's bug post) 
<knome> it's ok to simply link there
<knome> unless you want to copy it over - then we'll likely want to use <blockquote>
<knome> (unless it's a short quote)
<flocculant> mmk 
<flocculant> just want the reporting manually with PPA bits 
<flocculant> https://smdavis.us/2015/06/18/bug-reporting-in-xubuntu/
<knome> you could likely ask bluesabre to add an anchor to the page so you could point to that portion directly
<knome> or you can talk with him whether it's ok to copy it as-is to the site and not specifically mention it's by him
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ that all be way above my pay level :p
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> I'll do some stuff and wait for a comment tomorrow with my first cuppa :)
 * knome sighs at web design
 * flocculant just sighs at having to work all these things out bit by bit 
<flocculant> though I guess they call that learning :D
<knome> heh
<flocculant> managed to work out nested lists  - so much easier with a pen and paper lol 
<knome> haha
<knome> nested lists are stupid imp
<knome> imo
<knome> i mean xml-level
<knome> not that multi-level lists itself are stupid
<flocculant> right - I understood what you meant :)
<knome> there should be some other way to do that as <ul> inside <li>
<flocculant> yea
<knome> html5 kind of changes how headers are handled
<knome> <h1> inside <article> doesn't mean "the biggest header there is on the whole page"
<knome> so maybe something like that could be applied to lists
<flocculant> I should have all I want to do done today - then I'll leave it for a day or so - then read it all again, then send you my finished thing to look at 
<knome> though we don't want to restrict ourselves to any specific deepness of list items..
<flocculant> no - though on the other hand too many and it's confusing and probably requires one to rethink what you're trying to say 
<knome> of course
<knome> but it would still be silly to have that kind of restrictions
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> from reading real paper journal articles from degree days - anymore than 3 or 4 and it's "What?" 
<knome> yep
<knome> same with headers really
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> any sort of 'nesting' is ok until it takes longer to try and understand why someone has nested something 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I do quite like this TODO idea in -release of a team being able to start and stop builds
<flocculant> a milestone when *we* want one 
<flocculant> bluesabre: some discussion went on in -dekstop re the create file and it doesn't open sensibly from about http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/29/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:50 
<knome> bluesabre, i just got a mail re: the shortcut overlay, i told the user to send mail to development list, you'll want to monitor it for a follow-up
<flocculant> bluesabre: try http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/29/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t14:42 
<flocculant> silly old timezones and flocculant 
<flocculant> knome: ok - so done my worst with this QA page
<flocculant> title city ... 
<flocculant> so I will leave it, then look later - then perhaps you could try and find a sensible way to deal with that :)
<flocculant> yes you can hate me :p
<knome> :D
<knome> no, i won't hate you - just send it to me when you're ready and i'll process it
<flocculant> heh 
<flocculant> though I might try really hard to to get the contents to the top instead of half way down :D
<knome> :D
<flocculant> also - prior to it going live - I'll give it to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa to look at :evil: 
<flocculant> Unit193: while I think about highlights - going to be doing some major trello revamping *soon* might be better to turn that SwissBot thing off then - likely to be highly annoying for people who look at pings
<Unit193> Eg, you?
<Unit193> Then, fine, can do.
<flocculant> won't annoy me :)
<flocculant> but there's likely to be lots happening at the same time(ish) 
<Unit193> I personally don't ping on notices.
<flocculant> that might be it - lost the old config here :)
<Unit193> ~part
<Unit193> flocculant: Ping me when you're done.
<flocculant> Unit193: heh - not actually started yet :p 
<flocculant> but trello stuff lately only seems to come from the QA one - so not a biggy that I can see
<Unit193> flocculant: I'm still interested, and also hides xubuntu-[docs|default-settings|seeds|etc] :P
<pleia2> knome: having .po files may make it easier, but there's still design work to do to reflow text on the flyer :\
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - understood, but given that trello is going to have a whole lot of changing/adding/removing going on pre-X 
<flocculant> you should be looking at the source not the bot if you're in QA team - if you're not in QA team - then all you need to know is the finish surely? 
<flocculant> I don't care if the bot goes nuts - just giving warning that it's likely to :)
<Unit193> Unloaded trello for now, keeps rss feeds.
<flocculant> okey doke
<Unit193> (As far as bot vs website, one reminds me of the other.)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: seems fix is on the way for that 
<knome> pleia2, yep, it should be redone in scribus (at least), but scribus doesn't support .po files really, so it's not an option if we want more or less automatic translations
<knome> pleia2, otoh, i don't think there is much to do with docbook about positioning elements to certain places, so the flow would be a bit too free..
<Unit193> knome: We believe it's your turn to ping infinity. :D
<pleia2> translations are hard
<Unit193> More so when you only know Engrish.
<knome> pleia2, yep...
<ochosi> yeah, that was not a very sustainable kill
<ochosi> guess i should've used sudo
<ochosi> bluesabre: shite. seems i pushed a slightly outdated patch to xfce4-panel that still contains the old wording ("Switch between panel presets") over "Backup and restore" :(
<slickymaster> krytarik, I'll try to see if tomorrow I can manage to have some time to have a proper look at the other stuff you mentioned in another ping of yours regarding the RU translations
<krytarik> Ah, nice.
<slickymaster> these last few days has been a real rollercoaster for me
<ochosi> andrzejr_: ping
<xdeveloper> msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER xdeveloper ipusblusewah
<Unit193> /
<andrzejr_> ochosi?
<ochosi> andrzejr_: i made a small mistake in the patch i sent you (and translators will hate me for it...)
<andrzejr_> send a new one :-)
<ochosi> it's not a functional problem, but instead of "Switch between panel presets" we decided to go with "Backup and restore" as label
<ochosi> sure, can do so now
<andrzejr_> I see, if that's all I can do it myself
<andrzejr_> do you have git access by now?
<ochosi> not yet, i made the mistake of migrating to a new pc and not taking all devel stuff with me
<ochosi> because you know, .git can contain many files
<ochosi> that was silly, i know that now
<ochosi> but that also means i have to set up my gitolite access anew
<ochosi> and yeah, that's all
<ochosi> so if you can, please push that
<andrzejr_> ochosi, the label is already "Backup and restore", it is the tooltip_text that is "Switch between panel presets"
<ochosi> great. i should definitely sleep more
<ochosi> spectacular double-facepalm
<ochosi> andrzejr_: thanks for looking! (and especially thanks for *looking*)
<knome> ohai ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<knome> ochosi, have you played around with scribus much?
<ochosi> nope
<knome> right
<ochosi> that's for ppl who are too lazy for latex ;)
<knome> ok, so if you know latex, why don't you set up us a latex stylesheet for the flyer ...
<knome> otoh, latex doesn't really have (good) support for absolutely positioned stuff, or am i wrong?
<ochosi> right, flyers
<ochosi> yeah, i guess for flyers latex is not the right tool
<knome> yeah
<knome> scribus doesn't feel like that either...
<knome> it really feels that everything there shouts to me that it's for documents
<knome> not something that should actually look cool 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's why my first assocation was latex
<knome> pleia2, re: flyers, i was looking at doing a scribus version of them, but really, there is *still* flow issus
<knome> *issues
<pleia2> knome: yeah, I don't think there's any avoiding it
<knome> pleia2, or not issues, but the thing is that we *still* want the text to be in certain places, so actually flowing it from box to box isn't really helping 
<pleia2> I think we stick with svg and just have a pretty manual process for translations, if people want to do them at all
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> and inkscape has certain bonuses
<knome> like aligning the *bottom* edge of a paragraph to a certain point
<knome> not the text area...
<knome> it's easy enough to feed stuff to an svg manually
<knome> i mean, change placeholder text - or just specific elements with specific text
<knome> of course, there is no guarantee that the text will flow nicely
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> one textbox can also hold different styles in inkscape
<knome> if you maintain/update that manually, it can be a pain though
<knome> at least if you mess it up - there is no way to get it back except either undoing or knowing what the settings were
<ochosi> Unit193: how're your WIP workitems going for w?
<Unit193> None that I know of?
<ochosi> Unit193: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/a=unit193+sort=assignee+sortdir=asc
<knome> ;>
<Unit193> Meh, those are all out of my control.
<Unit193> Nothing I can do, so done I suppose.
<ochosi> then fix the workitems
<ochosi> but also, if those things haven't been implemented yet, we need to either add new workitems that make more sense or add bugreports to track them or port them over to x
<Unit193> >_<
<ochosi> yup, school of hard knocks.
<knome> pleia2, you know, i just figured, svg is xml, and xml2po creates pot file from xml files, and can merge po files into xml (including svg) files...
<knome> pleia2, so we can totally have translation templates for the flyer, and even make then translatable in launchpad
<knome> pleia2, then we can look at the po files and convert them automatically to a relatively good shape
<knome> pleia2, and then fix manually the rest - if needed
<bluesabre> so many pings
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: by all means, use that content
<pleia2> knome: ok
<knome> that does require some changes to the sources
<knome> but not too large ones
<knome> from bug 1500655: "from a marketing point of view it may be worth pointing out that this distro is suitable for brand new users as well as experienced tinkerers"
<ubottu> bug 1500655 in Xubuntu marketing materials "Suggestions for promotional brochure" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500655
<knome> from the flyer: "The Xubuntu desktop covers both ends of the usability spectrum: the default settings are carefully selected to produce unified and simple experience for the novice while allowing a full range of customizations for the advanced user."
<knome> am i missing something here?
<knome> or tbe, are they missing something?
<pleia2> maybe they just glanced over that bit :)
<knome> yeah well, it's hard to take a 9-point list seriously if they just glanced over the flyer
 * knome grins
<pleia2> they had some good ideas
<pleia2> I'm certainly taking it seriously
<knome> yeah yeah, i'm just being grumpy ;)
<pleia2> grumpyknome
<knome> well somebody needs to be
<knome> otherwise we end up doing whatever people ask!!
<pleia2> :P
<ali12341> perhaps they didn't notice the flyer has two pages?
<ali12341> i didnt...
<ali12341> also that sentence has a grammar error
<knome> well i just turned my telepathy module off for the night, but maybe i'll catch that thought later.
<ali12341> don't worry i'm making a list
<knome> thanks.
<ali12341> is "ubuntu" really an *ancient* african word?
<Luyin> I believe it's current zulu, but this would be better suited in an off-topic channel ;)
<ali12341> it's not off topic, the xubuntu flyer i'm proof reading literally claims it is ancient
<ali12341> best i can tell it's not ancient at all
<Luyin> well then I'd say it's wrong
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-30
<ali12341> i think a lot of people may not have noticed the flyer is two pages, because all the serious problems i found are on page 2!
<ali12341> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing/+bug/1501113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1501113 in Xubuntu marketing materials "Wily flyer problems" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tumbler/+bug/1168558 I believe I see this a decent amount.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168558 in tumbler (Ubuntu) "tumblerd crashed with SIGSEGV in tumbler_thumbnailer_create()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> bluesabre: new file now appears to be unknown, but does open with mousepad 
<flocculant> bbl
<flocculant> knome: you has moarmail :)
<knome> aha
<flocculant> not looking anymore - have to stop sometime :D
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> :D
<krytarik> slickymaster: Updated my list of issues I've spotted in the RU translation of the docs: http://paste.openstack.org/show/JfIUJfjIt0DabJlzr4ot/
<two_jays> i have a question regarding the qa testing case of the live session. When i choose my language the text in the installer and the os changes, but in apps like firefox and LO it doesnt. Is that the normal behaviour?
<knome> language packs are installed later, so normal i guess
<morf> hi
<morf> could you guys recommend me some tool for xubuntu remastering? 
<morf> i don't want to create new distro, just to make my life easier with reinstalls 
<flocculant> morf: #xubuntu is the support channel - though with that #ubuntu will be just as useful
<morf> well i don't think it's entirely offtopic it somehow fits in xubuntu development category ;) 
<flocculant> really - can't say I've noticed remastering something on the processes 
<morf> ok then
<ochosi> evening
<knome> hello ochosi 
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> flocculant: did you get to pinging someone about that gvfs bug?
<flocculant> ish
<flocculant> which one? 
<flocculant> the file not opening properly appears to be on the way to being fixed - desrt was doing something, and an update today has the file actually opening, but unknown to start with
<flocculant> the trash one I lost track of amongst other things - though I believe it's been linked upstream
<flocculant> trash one - desrt assigned, upstream bug linked
<flocculant> ochosi: both glib issues seemingly
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i think the first one i wasn't even aware of
<ochosi> knome: have we ever discussed shipping file templates btw?
<knome> ochosi, i think briefly
<flocculant> ochosi: right - they were both being talked about at the same time - easy to get mixed up I expect :)
<ochosi> knome: i really would like to improve that for 16.04: that the file > create doc submenu in thunar isn't empty anymore
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> ochosi, what would we have there?
<knome> ochosi, just totally empty files?
<flocculant> yep - seems to be 
<flocculant> what would we want - templates for things we supply - text, calc and writer? 
<knome> i would assume so
<flocculant> can't imagine needing more 
<ochosi> knome, flocculant: yeah, empty files for our default apps would be nice
<ochosi> guess this shouldn't be too hard to set up, once you know where to put those files
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> certainly easy enough to do locally
<bluesabre> only issue is translations for the template names
<ochosi> i'm not saying this is the most useful feature in the world, but it sucks a bit to have an empty menu
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<ochosi> oh hey
<ochosi> sneaking up on us like this...
 * ochosi rolls his eyes
<bluesabre> only here briefly
<bluesabre> whats up
<ochosi> oh, not much
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess the easiest would be to have really simple names - I'd LO Calc would be LO still :p
<ochosi> i was just checking in briefly to see what the status of that bug was
<ochosi> and then i remembered that template thing
<ochosi> so what was the translations problem again? i mean are those not very generic types - practically mimetypes - which should be translated somewhere already?
<bluesabre> not sure how populating the templates folder works
<bluesabre> but they are files, and the templates just presents the file names
<bluesabre> (just a thought)
<flocculant> shall I add it to bp for x now so it doesn't get forgotten? 
<bluesabre> good idea
<ochosi> yeah, please do so
<bluesabre> as for gmb, no update yet... it doesn't crash every time for me, and never with valgrind, so some sort of race condition
<bluesabre> still digging though :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<ochosi> great, thanks bluesabre 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - added that to dev bp
<bluesabre> flocculant: great, thanks
<flocculant> np
<ochosi> i wonder, if we add these files to x-d-s, couldn't we translate them somehow?
<ochosi> at least via a script or something that then just creates those files via touch or something (well yeah, maybe that's a bit hacky...)
<bluesabre> running out, bbabl
<flocculant> cya bluesabre 
<ochosi> btw, not sure you read the reports about the "new ubiquity" or "ubiquity replacement" within ubuntu
<ochosi> i mean yeah, it was only a matter of time before they would throw the current installer under the bus for something that works on phones too
<flocculant> I did see something that was just lots of purple 
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure that's going to be much fun if we spend the whole of x dealing with broken installers because phone :(
<knome> are there facts on the table that they are landing it for X?
<flocculant> not that I've seen 
<flocculant> but forearmed is forewarned
<flocculant> knome: all that I've seen is post from design
<ochosi> yeah, i wouldn't freak out about it either
<flocculant> nope 
<ochosi> haven't read anywhere that the old ubiquity is going anywhere
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> so i would presume we can continue to use that
<knome> of course
<knome> why not?
<knome> it's not closed source or anything
<flocculant> I'd not expect to see changes land for that half way through an LTS dev cycle
<ochosi> also who knows, maybe the new installer will be totally stable and easily customizable >:D
<ochosi> be that as it may, i need some sleep
<ochosi> nighty everyone!
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<flocculant> night ochosi :)
<flocculant> and night from me as well now :)
<knome> nightY flocculant 
<bluesabre> back now
<bluesabre> ochosi: if it could be stable, that would only be like the old ubiquity we haven't seen in quite some time
<bluesabre> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-01
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> nighty
<Unit193> bluesabre: You no no see pings?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't scrolled up yet
<bluesabre> Unit193: re xubuntu-artwork vcs-browser?
<Unit193> That and a couple things in d/control, GTK â GTK+ (lintian)
<Unit193> Hrm, well actually I have bzr rights, I can do those after XXX is branched.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hi.
<bluesabre> Unit193: hi
<bluesabre> Unit193: where are we with gmb 1.1.15?  Do we need to update any packages or the like, or is it already packaged up somewhere?
<bluesabre> s/packages/patches
<Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/gmusicbrowser.git
<bluesabre> oh nice
<bluesabre> so we're just waiting for upload on that one
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2015-September/001152.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, I saw that, how exciting
<flocculant> exciting enough for cake? or raw batter 
<bluesabre> cake, yay
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome, slickymaster: we should probably do a final call for translations, I can do it tonight if you agree
<bluesabre> in particular, we have a lot of incomplete here
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search
<bluesabre> and a few, though complete here
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<kristianfzr> Hi all
<akwxi_dave> howdy..
<kristianfzr> Im so very new at this.
<kristianfzr> Should I even write here or somewher else ?
<akwxi_dave> you can write here.. it all depends on what your after.. :-)
<kristianfzr> Well I saw in the xbuntu web site about this place. And I wanted to try it out.
<akwxi_dave> then welcome friend and enter... :-)
<kristianfzr> Thank you. 
<kristianfzr> !
<kristianfzr> I will see you all later, because im leaving.
<kristianfzr> Thanks for the welcome ! :)
<akwxi_dave> ok.. have a good day
<kristianfzr> u 2 :)
<akwxi_dave> cheers
<kristianfzr> owh
<kristianfzr> Cheers
<kristianfzr> Australian ?
<akwxi_dave> English.. UK
<akwxi_dave> Well Yorkshire to be precise
<Unit193> No updates on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tumbler/+bug/1168558 either?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168558 in tumbler (Ubuntu) "tumblerd crashed with SIGSEGV in tumbler_thumbnailer_create()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> hey ochosi 
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hullo flocculant 
<flocculant> how's Thursday? 
<knome> soon ending
<flocculant> :)
<knome> in 3 minutes
<flocculant> good lord 
<flocculant> it was 7:30 last time I saw the time ... 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> just reinstalled - quicker than working out how I'd managed to fubar aptdaemon 
<knome> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: LP 1473821 - Debian 791548.  Everything good?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473821 in GTK Theme Config "clicking on Revert silently removes the user's .gtkrc-2.0 file" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473821
<ubottu> Debian bug 791548 in gtk-theme-config "gtk-theme-config: clicking on Revert silently removes the user's .gtkrc-2.0 file" [Critical,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/791548
<Unit193> flocculant: Still here?
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Backlog in -devel as for now, sound good or want to see if we can push for earlier?
<bluesabre> Unit193: hm?
<bluesabre> Unit193: re xubuntu-artwork?  I have no qualms with getting that fixed now.  Particularly since we're a bit slow right now
<Unit193> Meant in #ubuntu-devel.
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Basically, I'm supposed to poke on stuff and I have no idea about questions asked, just a strange messager that got shot.
<bluesabre> checking now
<bluesabre> ok, I see
<Unit193> Also I linked you to bugs too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: since we're a few short weeks away at this time, we might consider getting the code in but not targeting w for -core
<Unit193> Sooo, "community builds" again, or just save it all for next time?
<Unit193> Also, feel free to join in.
<Unit193> I'm a minion, you're the TL! :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, but you're the minion that knows something about all this ;)
<Unit193> Hopefully at least, but only the technical side.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we can also nudge flocculant to see how he feels about trying to do this for w
<bluesabre> looks like the list of bugs for me to work on is growing again
<bluesabre> busy weekend ahead
<bluesabre> getting ready to head out to dinner, bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: rly? what bugs?
<ochosi> and hi and bye :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: FWIW, that one is preventing migration to testing.
<bluesabre> Unit193: the gtk-theme-config one?
<Unit193> Aye.
<bluesabre> will try to resolve that one quickly... though people are still tweaking their firefox/iceweasel appearance with theme-config?
<bluesabre> er, with the rc file
<bluesabre> (time to get a better theme I'd say)
<bluesabre> ochosi: also got a few with catfish in other locales
<bluesabre> might be time to figure out the polkit upgrade
<ochosi> oh, for updating the cache you mean?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> sounds almost like a feature to me though ;)
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> would also affect mugshot since it uses sudo chfn
<bluesabre> not going to be that guy... but gksu was easier
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> :D
<Unit193> gksu is muuuuuuuuuuuch nicer.
<ochosi> hf and ttyl!
<ochosi> night everyone
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, forgot to mention, Trello crap updated.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-02
<bluesabre> Unit193: good work
<bluesabre> Unit193: won't be making it to OLF this year, fwiw
<Unit193> bluesabre: So what's up?
<Unit193> Awwwh, I see.  Don't think I will.
<bluesabre> not much, just got back from dinner and movie
<bluesabre> glad to see that the ubi-timezone bug might be fixed tomorrow
<Unit193> Know anything about apt-cache show?
<bluesabre> I've used it in the past
<Unit193> Fails in wily, vivid is fine.
<Unit193> This is major problemâ¢
<bluesabre> for a particular package?
<Unit193> All.
<Unit193> PPAs, my repo, Ubuntu repos.
<Unit193> Also, it's been more laggy.
<Unit193> Found one that works now..
<bluesabre> running wily, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12636185/
<Unit193> real 0m5.786s, vivid real 0m0.982s and http://paste.openstack.org/show/d9TUXTryecd57XRQBxcy
<Unit193> Tabcomplete has also greatly slowed.
<Unit193> Soo, kind of have to keep vivid around just to check what a package is.
<bluesabre> real0m1.316s
<bluesabre> suppose that is slow
<bluesabre> haven't had the best of luck with nvidia on my laptop with wily... currently stable because I installed bumblebee (of all things)
<bluesabre> going to try again this weekend when I reinstall once more
<Unit193> Tell me if apt looks any better.
<bluesabre> bed time, back tomorrow (yay, weekend time for getting things done)
<Unit193> Hah, a'ight.
<flocculant> Unit193 bluesabre - caught up on core here and there, I'd certainly be happier if we'd pushed core more during this cycle - as it stands hardly any testing of it 
<flocculant> thing's stuck rebuilding somehow too 
<flocculant> I think I would rather wait 4 weeks and aim for 16.04 - would perhaps have been better to have tested more this cycle - but we didn't 
<flocculant> also 
<Unit193> Well cdimage hasn't built it yet, so didn't have anything to test.
<flocculant> If we're going to start testing it properly - really needs to be building like the other 2 so we can rebuild ourselves when we want
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - shouldn't have ended up in that state - not sure how it did 
<Unit193> Black hole called "merge proposal"
<flocculant> it's on the list - but should be a stand alone thing - never rebuilding, just sitting there for a cycle 
<flocculant> Unit193: unless it's on the cron then that shouldn't make any difference afaik
<Unit193> Meh, all the merges were up and sitting there for quite some time now, and they still aren't in.  We'll likely be lucky to get it for XXX after all.
<flocculant> ... 
<Unit193> But, it should be built just like the other ISOs, but we don't need to test it as much afaik.
<flocculant> Unit193: yep 
<flocculant> I'd likely mention it a few times - then do the milestone shuffle with that as well as normal ones
<flocculant> effectively I guess we're really just testing that it installs 
<flocculant> did krytarik do whatever he was doing? 
<flocculant> as it stands now - I think we'll be lucky to get anywhere in the next 2 weeks - so maybe better to push for them to sort stuff out early xx
<Unit193> The ubuntu-cdimage one?  Yeah, long ago as well.
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, I agree with your position. I think if we can get somebody started on adding these things in, we can have it when x starts
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - that seems the sensible way to move on I think
<flocculant> bluesabre: btw been digging around for Templates - close to New Zealand but not a resolution :p
<GridCube> oh no! http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/10/gigabytes-of-user-data-from-hack-of-patreon-donations-site-dumped-online/
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> thats so bad
<GridCube> oh yes
<GridCube> sorry
<GridCube> :(
<flocculant> why we getting mails to http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20151001-wily.html 
<Unit193> Yey!  None Xubuntu!
<flocculant> well yea - I saw that :p
<flocculant> didn't know why we were suddenly getting the mails - can't imagine it's something new 
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2015-October/
<flocculant> yea - but still wonder
<flocculant> I assume this *thing* isn't new - never seen one cc'd to us
<flocculant> (though I'd see it from -announce)
<Unit193> It wasn't.
<Unit193> They do random entire repo rebuilds, otherwise it's only new stuff or transitions.
<flocculant> ok - that's fine, just checking the why:
<Unit193> Q: Do we actually care about skippy-ed at this point at all? (https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras)
<flocculant> does it do something the dashboard doesn't? 
<flocculant> where we actually looking at either seriously?
<Unit193> xfdashboard is pending in pkg-xfce, and Debian #788332 (-pulseaudio is hungup in NEW.)
<ubottu> Debian bug 788332 in wnpp "ITP: xfdashboard -- GNOME shell like dashboard for Xfce" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/788332
<flocculant> not quite what I meant - are we looking to add one to default? 
<ochosi> Unit193: i guess for MR you really need to poke ppl directly on irc. or poke people to poke people.
<ochosi> (as annoying as that is)
<Unit193> ochosi: I have been.
<ochosi> Unit193: oh ok. i guess we should've done a better job at supporting you there then
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see bug 1501041
<ubottu> bug 1501041 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "No visible display in ubuntu session when using nvidia drivers via nvidia-prime until screen goes to sleep, then waked up" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501041
<flocculant> seen a few nvidia issues this cycle - not been using it myself (and no need for that bumblebee thingymajig) 
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hi flocculant 
<knome> hello all
<flocculant> hi knome 
<knome> flocculant, there's a draft page at the website for you to look at
<flocculant> knome: okey doke :)
<knome> flocculant, just log in and find it on the list of pages in the admin
<flocculant> Unit193: did you see recentish bug for apt-cache long descriptions?
<flocculant> knome: yep - will do :)
<knome> did some small changes (eg. to drop the multi-level lists) and wanted to run it by you
<flocculant> well I might well want them back - the ones I had were there for a reason
<knome> i know
<knome> but if you want them back, then we just add them back :P
<knome> no biggie
<flocculant> yep :)
<knome> another thing i was wondering if this level of deepness is suitable for the website
<flocculant> I was wondering that
<flocculant> but 
<knome> which is mostly targeted end-users
<knome> i know, we don't have other place for it either...
<flocculant> I didn't really want it to be globally editable - so veered away from wiki 
<knome> yep
<knome> maybe we'll have better outlets for that kind of information in 6-12 months
<knome> :)
<flocculant> knome: ok - happy enough with that layout - don't publish yet, seen one typo - will check it again tomorrow
<knome> yep, sure
<flocculant> and it's not a spelling error - my original said one thing - the draft says something else - not sure what happened there
<knome> :)
<flocculant> thanks :D
<knome> i changed wording in one place
<flocculant> I know ;)
<knome> practically avoiding links that say "here"
<flocculant> yep - saw that 
<knome> good good :)
<knome> and as always, just ask me if you need further feedback or help with it
<flocculant> and yea - possibly not the best place for it - but it's what we have and we really needed a more or less one-stop place
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i'm actually really interested in setting up our own wiki
<flocculant> right
<knome> or something along the lines of that
<flocculant> would be useful to have somewhere that we've got some control 
<flocculant> at least we can 'go here' for the last word
<knome> yep
<flocculant> I'll look tomorrow - then let you know
<flocculant> I don't want to screw up publishing that in the wrong place :p
<Unit193> flocculant: Thought so, but has new info.
<Unit193> Still has some oddities, but eh.
<flocculant> personally I don't use show much - but I can see it being a pain 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-03
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Crap, not you again.
<bluesabre> :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, noticed that with my new laptop (mini display-port) the patch to automatically re-enable the internal display when the external monitor is disconnected doesn't work anymore
<ochosi> wonder whether that's just a driver bug
<bluesabre> ochosi: :(
<bluesabre> morning allllll
<drc> Good Morning Viet...er...Louisville! :)
<two_jays> :D
<flocculant> afternoon peeps
<flocculant> knome: ok - done a few changes - I'm happy with that now 
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you seen it? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: which thing?
<flocculant> the draft on the website - or were you just :) 
<bluesabre> flocculant: pretty much just :)
<bluesabre> I'm pretty chill these days ;)
<flocculant> always a good place to be :)
<flocculant> bbl
 * tracker3 slaps tracker3 around a bit with a large fishbot
<bluesabre> flocculant: are we interested in trying this patch out and including it for w? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1294600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294600 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Add support for tear-free compositing in Xfce" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^ since we had also spoken about this in the past
<bluesabre> with olivier saying that trunk won't be getting any more 4.12 releases, so we wouldn't see this outside of a patch for quite a while
<bluesabre> (which itself might be a good reason to not carry the patch)
<flocculant> bluesabre: really detest things that I'd not be able to confirm - never see that myself
<flocculant> given that - I'll be guided by you 2 :)
<greg5858> don't know if the is right place for feedback.  Just a suggestion an easy way to change the background color when  xubuntu 15.10 is booting up.  I personally like the blue background.   Thank you for listening and have a nice day. :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'd prefer holding off on it, just wanted your opinion while I think of a response :)
<bluesabre> greg5858: the application running at startup is plymouth, this askubuntu answer might help... https://askubuntu.com/questions/2007/how-do-i-change-the-plymouth-bootscreen
<bluesabre> well, darn
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke 
<flocculant> cya tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-04
<flocculant> knome: I published it and changed the Get Involved link to suit the new page
<knome> flocculant, pleia2 is not going to like changing urls :P
<knome> flocculant, i'll fix that :P
<knome> ok done :P
<flocculant> I did think that - then I thought pfft :p
<knome> hahah
<knome> well
<knome> if we can avoid that easily, it's wise
<knome> besides it makes structurally sense that the page is a subpage of the get involved one
<flocculant> also - didn't want to muck about with the original page either
<knome> that's visible in the url as well when it's done right
<knome> well
<knome> just go to text mode
<knome> and copy paste to the other text mode window
<knome> but it's fine, no harm done :P
<knome> i'm sure pleia2 didn't have time to look at the channel in between so avoided a heart attack too
<flocculant> yep - didn't want to copy paste 
<flocculant> pleia2: also doesn't like deleting things - so rock and a hard place ;)
<flocculant> all *I* wanted was suitable information available for people - which I got :p
<knome> no but the draft page was never visible
<knome> so deleting it done no harm publicly
<knome> it was supposed to serve exactly as what it was - a private drafting page for the team
<knome> probably should have mentioned that :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ok, bbl
<bluesabre> maybe I don't understand vala... I add code and nothing changes :\
<bluesabre> ooh something finally changed
<bluesabre> ochosi: for https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk-theme-config/+bug/1313011 can you run gtk-theme-config, change your panel color, then add the missing css classes to your .config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css file and send it to me?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313011 in GTK Theme Config "sound-indicator doesn't obey Theme Configuration settings" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ochosi: since I'm mucking around gtk-theme-config today :)
<flocculant> why does the desktop forget what wallpaper it's got if you change graphics driver 
<flocculant> hey bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: drivers choose their own monitor names, xfdesktop references desktop by monitor name
<bluesabre> (iirc)
<flocculant> oh - didn't know that :)
<flocculant> though - I meant that for offtopic lol 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: new qa page at x.org includes the 3 ppa's/ exploratory testing, bug tags and ppa bugs now
<flocculant> have a good day, off for a bit now
<bluesabre> flocculant: very nice@
<bluesabre> flocculant: good response? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1294600/comments/13
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294600 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Add support for tear-free compositing in Xfce" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - good response :)
<flocculant> now - really off - cya :)
<bluesabre> later
<bluesabre> ochosi: oh, nvm, we already addressed that
<bluesabre> gtk-theme-config should be ready for a new release now, will take care of that tonight
<bluesabre> then we should try to get that update out to debian as well
<fred_r> Hello, I would like to submit some fixes/workarounds for the Greybird theme, how can I do it ?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-03
<Unit193> That tends to be expected, ubiquity is lovely. :/
<flocculant> Unit193: I assume that was for me :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: well i dunno, it can't really hurt too badly, can it? not sure though why so many files are marked as modified, i didn't tamper with 99% of them
<bluesabre> ochosi, only asking since we're past UIFe and should somebody ask, I don't want to provide a visual grep :D
<bluesabre> s/UIFe/UIF
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure, you can always revert that commit if you feel the UIFe is going to be smoother without it
<ochosi> the two commits are very clear and isolated though
<ochosi> one was for the audio-volume-off icon, which we don't need just yet, but it's prep for new notifyd and volumed-pulse
<ochosi> and the new symlink for totem is the other one
<ochosi> not sure anymore whether that one already affects yy
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commits/master
<bluesabre> ochosi, alrighty, and it looks like the rest is just office and js mimes
<bluesabre> should be able to slip that through painlessly
<nairwolf> Hi guys, I'm reading my mails. Have you seen the mail from makisto@gmail.com at xubuntu-devel mailing-list ? He talks about something broken with update-manager
<nairwolf> Have you already talked about that ? 
<nairwolf> I would like to ask him more information because his message is unclear.
<bluesabre> nairwolf, we haven't, and I'm actually stepping out now... if you'd like, can you take a look and see if that's really required?
<bluesabre> bbl
<nairwolf> Yes, I'll do that, I'm currently downloading the last build.
<akxwi-dave> nairwolf:  you doing 64 or 32 bit?
<nairwolf> 64 bits
<nairwolf> I only have 64 bits computer
<nairwolf> why ?
<akxwi-dave>  I was just doing the same..  I'll drag down the 32 bit instead.. that way both versions are covered..
<flocculant> as an aside - update-manager appears here (when it thinks a restart is needed) and I *do* have that package - came with the usb installer
<nairwolf> ok, thank you akxwi-dave ;)
<flocculant> I can leave updating with first cuppa tomorrow and see if update-manager does start, but iirc it tends to be flaky on dev installs anyway
<nairwolf> flocculant: ok, so you don't understand what this message means ?
<flocculant> I understand that I don't think they said what they meant to :p
<nairwolf> I agree with you :p
<flocculant> I sent a reply too
<nairwolf> great
<nairwolf> The bug related to sleep mode is fixed, right ? 
<flocculant> yup
<nairwolf> As I was away from keyboard last weeks, I'm trying to see what's new. And Yakkety seems really stable !
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> that's good - it releases in a couple of weeks lol
<nairwolf> yes, I'm happy for that, so I will upgrade parents' computer to 16.10 ;)
<nairwolf> lunch time, see you later
<nairwolf> flocculant: I can confirm there is something broken with update-manager
<nairwolf> I'm running the last build, and I've just opened update-manager and it caused a crash
<nairwolf> but, I can't report it because it is said "the problem cannot be reported: this is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again"
<nairwolf> Someone here is foss.freedom@gmail.com ? 
<akxwi-dave> Can confirm the same as Nairwolf on 32bit..  not sure when this error started..  as i am sure that i have run update-manager on earlier releases
<nairwolf> badly, that's not something I'm using regularly with my computer
<nairwolf> akxwi-dave: Rob Peters from the mailing-list said it's already reported on launchpad, but I don't see the bug. do you see it ? 
<akxwi-dave> apport popped up asking to report clicked ok and then it just closed..
<nairwolf> maybe you'll see this message "please remove any third party package and try again"
<krytarik> @all: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main/revision/2742
<meetingology> krytarik: Error: "all:" is not a valid command.
<krytarik> Woops.
<akxwi-dave> that matches with this I would guess
<akxwi-dave> error https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Fz0OP2zN/software%20updater
<nairwolf> akxwi-dave: I have the same one
<flocculant> ok - so as long as it's reported - we can safely leave it be
<flocculant> certainly running it from terminal here it just works
<flocculant> bug 1623296
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1623296 could not be found
<flocculant> ok - guessing that the reason people can't find it is because it's a private bug
<flocculant> ftr 'sometimes' if you scroll down the apport dialogue you'll see the dupe bug number
<flocculant> krytarik: so the revision for update-manager is where it broke? and expected fix? 
<flocculant> before I wander off to -release ... 
<flocculant> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb, lubuntu-gtk-desktop, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-gnome-desktop, ubuntukylin-desktop, ubuntu-mate-desktop
<flocculant> bluesabre: for gir1.2-unity-5.0 ^^ and we certainly appear to need it to
<flocculant> krytarik: nvm - I'll not be wandering anywhere now :p
<krytarik> flocculant: I guess something like "except (ValueError, ImportError) as e:" here should be sufficient: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main/view/head:/UpdateManager/UnitySupport.py#L34
<flocculant> maybe
<flocculant> someone would know - that someone not being me :p
<flocculant> then we'd not need the extra packages?
<krytarik> Yup.
<flocculant> krytarik: is editing that file on an install then trying sufficient ? or do I need to do some tomfoolery - that would make no sense to me? 
<flocculant> cos I can do that easily enough in a vm
<krytarik> Yep, it is.
<flocculant> k - I'll muck about for 5 minutes then
<flocculant> yep - that works
<krytarik> \o/
<flocculant> now do an mp? 
<krytarik> Sure, have fun. :P
<flocculant> that said
<flocculant> if I install gir thing - don't get masses of warnings in the terminal :p
<flocculant> paste.ubuntu.com/23270481
<flocculant> update-manager at least working
<flocculant> with the gir thing - no warnings 
 * flocculant lets bluesabre think about that instead of him
<flocculant> there's enough warnings running things from terminal as it is without making more :p
<flocculant> krytarik: actually because I managed to report the bug here I did mp and linked it
<flocculant> also made bug not private - did it from vm
<flocculant> akxwi-dave nairwolf - bug 1629900
<ubottu> bug 1629900 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with ValueError in require_version(): Namespace Unity not available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629900
<flocculant> krytarik: thanks too :)
<flocculant> mmm - so reading the bug and the unitysupport.py thing - I can actually see what was going wrong and what was needed - not that I'd have known to (ValueError ... though :p
<nairwolf> Thank you flocculant !
<flocculant> it won't be long before that bug you can see gets marked as a dupe of one you can't see
<flocculant> thanks krytarik - poked in -release now, up to them now :)
<knome> bluesabre, need any help with the artwork/slideshow uploads?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [shimmer-themes-debian] r17 d/greybird-gtk-theme.docs: README â README.md (by Unit 193)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i disabled bugtracking for volumed-pulse in launchpad and added a link to xfce's git: https://launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed-pulse what i couldn't fix so far is that there's still code on LP, would be nice if we could get that dropped too
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, switching to git made the bzr branches hidden by default, maybe this is already ok: https://code.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed-pulse
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, i've merged my feature branch into xfce4-notifyd's master, if you wanna try the do-not-disturb mode or the primary monitor setting
<Unit193> Heh, so the private bug was reported by someone using Xubuntu. \o/
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> 'lo
<bluesabre> ochosi, feel free to comment on (or poke with) https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/392667
<bluesabre> knome, nice to see that our uife bug went ignored :D
<bluesabre> (s)
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and get the packaging together, add a xubuntu-release comment and upload
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> doesn't affect any of the other releases ;)
<knome> i can try to poke people tomorrow
<bluesabre> if you'd like
<bluesabre> I'm going to try to figure out what the icon changes were
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-04
<bluesabre> ochosi, indeed, there is no discernable difference with those icons... I'm guessing the svg2png may have produced more efficient pngs or something
<bluesabre> at least at the largest sizes
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r318 * Add support for new icon naming for Totem (LP: #1623768)... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> morning all
<akxwi-dave> howdo
<bluesabre> ochosi, updated lp:xfce4-volumed-pulse to mirror git.xfce so we can set up daily builds
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice. btw, for zz we should push in the new volumed-pulse and notifyd from the start
<ochosi> plus i guess i need to fiddle with xfpm so that the notifications there can also be symbolic icons
<bluesabre> ochosi, alrighty, that sounds reasonable
<bluesabre> knome, feel free to poke with those bugs, and we'll need a sponsor once we get the slideshow changes merged in
<knome> bluesabre, mhm, pitti approved the wallpaper one
<knome> bluesabre, re: slideshow, it's also in the main branch ;)
<bluesabre> knome, cool, just gotta get it uploaded now
<knome> yup, it helps that i have push access there..
<ochosi> humm, btw a short feedback on gnome-screensaver. it's currently unmaintained and neither gnome nor the unity folks (who are also using it as fallback) really contribute to it or develop it
<ochosi> i've tried it here though and it's also ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: poked pitti - he approved 1 of 2, no comment on 2nd so I assume he missed there were 2
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks 
<ochosi> fwiw, if we decide to go down that road, we should consider including the gnome-screensaver locking options in xfce4-power-manager in a separate tab (basically like with light-locker) or to have something like light-locker-settings for gnome-screensaver. we can't really expect users to fiddle with dconf-editor just to edit their lock-screen options...
<flocculant> yup I'd agree with that
<flocculant> I assume that now we know there's an issue with the changes pitti made to x-d-s that when he/we revisit it - we'll not have the same problem again
<flocculant> but - assumptions :p
<ochosi> yeah, let's hope that ;)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> Unit193, are you still a numix user?
<Unit193> Sometimes, yep.  Though modified.
<bluesabre> Checked out the latest release (2.6.4)?
<Unit193> Nope, still on .1
<bluesabre> Playing with it now, might do a uife for it since there's a few xfce fixes in there https://github.com/numixproject/numix-gtk-theme/blob/2.6.4/CHANGES
<bluesabre> https://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/pool/main/n/numix-gtk-theme/
<bluesabre> ubuntu fixes as well
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r319 Release 16.10.1 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> My patches aren't too hard to re-apply!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-05
<flocculant> bluesabre: both uife's done now - rc tomorrow afaik, just in time :)
<Unit193> Need a real-life upgrade test?
<flocculant> would be a useful thing to do 
<flocculant> I've got one I can upgrade too
<flocculant> I'd hope there are people in xub-users who'll upgrade so they'll get pinged this time when I shout
<Unit193> OK, will do then.
<flocculant> thanks 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [xenial] r618 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r622 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<ochosi> flocculant: \o/
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> martin only saw one in -release - by the time I saw his reply to me - he'd gone, so I grabbed him asap this morning 
<flocculant> ochosi: as far as I know now the only 'horrid' visual thing is our resize boxes - don't think anything happened with that - the adwaita as well as greybird one bug 1617711
<ubottu> bug 1617711 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Resize screen hard to read" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617711
<flocculant> bbl
<flocculant> pretty good shape for next week now imo (ignoring things we know about like thunar)
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you get chance to look at mugshot yet? 
<ochosi> yeah, that thunar bug report still contains a patch and since i've been afk for some weeks i'm not sure anymore whether we tested that...
<flocculant> think so
<ochosi> oh crap, forgot about that bug
<flocculant> hard to remember a specific thunar thing tbh
<ochosi> well i'll try to see if i can squeeze in looking for a fix sometime tonight or tomorrow
<ochosi> thanks for reminding me!
<flocculant> ochosi: well, while it's not very nice - not the worst thing that could be happening :)
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> flocculant, I've not yet :(
<akxwi-dave> morning
<bluesabre> cyphermox, since you often handle updates to the ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu package, would you like to upload a new version? I've also reached out for sponsors on #-motu, lp 1629648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629648 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Yak art for the Xubuntu slideshow" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629648
<bluesabre> flocculant, also looking to update the numix theme to the latest release, lp 1630401, package can be pulled from https://packages.debian.org/unstable/numix-gtk-theme in case you want to take a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1630401 in numix-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] numix-gtk-theme 2.6.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630401
<flocculant> Unit193: bug 1630541
<ubottu> bug 1630541 in xfce4-datetime-plugin (Ubuntu) "Time unreadable in different themes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630541
<flocculant> bluesabre: going to start xubuntu-z-bugs 
<flocculant> and put gtk3 bugs I find on it :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: grabbed that numix - not a theme I use so wouldn't much know if anything was wrong there
<bluesabre> flocculant, yeah, I checked it out, seems fine here
<bluesabre> and thanks
<cyphermox> bluesabre: ok!
<bluesabre> cyphermox: awesome, you rock!
<cyphermox> bluesabre: doing it now, I'll use the bzr branch directly, to do the debcommit -r at the same time..
<bluesabre> cyphermox, sounds good to me, thanks again
<cyphermox> I suppose you didn't make any changes yourself aside from uploading to your PPA?
<cyphermox> also, I thought you had upload rights?
<cyphermox> ubiquity-slideshow is in unapproved now.
<tracker4> just setting up a xenial to test upgrades here said flocculant
<tracker4> added xenial dev ppa's to make sure that works ok - seem to get the yakkety wallpaper from there :)
<bluesabre> cyphermox, I have limited upload rights to the xubuntu packageset which does not currently include the slideshow
<bluesabre> cyphermox, thanks for the upload
<tracker9> hi bluesabre :)
<tracker9> never upgraded with nvidia instead of nouveau
<tracker9> bluesabre: don't worry about mugshot now either - that can wait for zealous zebedee
<flocculant> well that was painless
<krytarik> knome, bluesabre, Unit193: Does anyone think of uploading xubuntu-docs?
 * flocculant thought that got sorted later
<Unit193> Document pt_BR/index.xml does not validate
<krytarik> knome: To fix the above, as well as the language name thing mentioned in -ot: http://paste.openstack.org/show/PXOjdgkADm74TsvH8AT9/
<knome> krytarik, you have a launchpad account at least, so please, a merge proposal
<Unit193> What?  do-release-upgrade -d  tells me no new release found.
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> Unit193, do-release-upgrade must have misplaced it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looking now, it looks like the stupid upgrader reset /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades to lts, yet again...  I've reset that on others, but may have missed one.  This is ridiculous.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-06
<bluesabre> Unit193, that sounds like a pain
<Unit193> Yeeeah. :/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r628 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<flocculant> bluesabre: anything expected to change now that I'm not aware of? before I start calls for testing 
<bluesabre> flocculant, probably not
<bluesabre> currently working on a new lightdm-gtk-greeter release, but that's only to make sure it can be built with the latest lightdm
<ochosi> i remember there were some MRs for the greeter
<ochosi> bluesabre: any plan on reviewing those?
<bluesabre> ochosi, probably not right now, this goal was to make sure the greeter could actually be rebuilt in yakkety
<bluesabre> these 3 commits should do it https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - thanks :)
<flocculant> ochosi: just looking at this resize dialogue issue, trying themes out, high contrast is no contrast at all - just black, raleigh is the same but also missing any button edges and appears to be of no use on gtk3 apps - wish I'd looked sooner at that :|
<flocculant> too late to lose raleigh? 
<ochosi> flocculant: if hi-contrast doesn't work it
<ochosi> flocculant: 's a ubiquity bug, not a theme bug. plain and simple as that.
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> wasn't impying it was a theme issue - just updating what I had said before, the raleigh thing is different I assume though
<flocculant> \o/ ubiquity crashes if I try installing ubuntu with hi-contrast
<flocculant> known on gnome apparently
<ochosi> awesome
<flocculant> pinged cypher in -release and pointed that and our bug out
<flocculant> was fixed on gnome a while back - bug 1614848
<ubottu> bug 1614848 in Ubuntu GNOME "ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in configure_icons(): gtk-icon-theme-error-quark: Icon 'gtk-missing-image' not present in theme Adwaita (0)" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614848
<flocculant> bluesabre: added changes to wiki release note - no bug fixes listed currently, I'll try and find but if you specifically know - would be helpful :)
<flocculant> ochosi: looking useful on that over in big team land :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, I'll see about getting a list together for that tonight
<flocculant> ok - even just a list on a pad will do - I'll do the wiki and pad out the description stuff if easier for you 
<cyphermox> flocculant: so, do you know what icon might have been missing in xubuntu?
<cyphermox> in ubiquity I mean
<flocculant> cyphermox: jbicha confused the issue some - I hadn't seen any icon missing from ubiquity 
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well, if it happens again I probably have a fix in for that too :)
<flocculant> there were icons missing from Ubuntu itself using high contrast
<flocculant> :)
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> which?
<flocculant> the one in the top right - the gear icon thing? 
<cyphermox> ok
<flocculant> the one you get to settings shutdown etc
<cyphermox> for ubuntu itself?
<cyphermox> you mean in unity or in ubiquity?
<flocculant> unity 
<flocculant> that's what I mean - jbicha was confusing the 2 issues I think :)
<cyphermox> ack
<flocculant> so do you think you have fix for the issue in general? 
<cyphermox> yeah
<flocculant> cool - thanks :)
<cyphermox> more porting for GTK 3.20 :/
<flocculant> ... 
<flocculant> ports should stay by the sea with ships in them :p
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> just like menus are for restaurants
<flocculant> :)
<cyphermox> ;)
<cyphermox> still to re-test unity and ubuntu-gnome installs and then I upload ubiquity with all the fixes.
<flocculant> and that will fix the xubuntu one? 
<Unit193> Any crashing fixes in that lot?
<flocculant> cos obviously that's the one *we* care about :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: So we'll want to drop dbus-user-sesion from x-d-s deps now too.
<bluesabre> Unit193, and that should be the only required change?
<Unit193> In theory, I believe.
<flocculant> when you say now - do you mean now or eventually :p
<Unit193> [16:52:16] < cyphermox> I'd bet this also fixed ubiquity's pkexec.
<Unit193> Ooooh, hopefully!
<cyphermox> I don't think it's a bug very many people noticed
<Unit193> That's OK, I've been hitting one I'm pretty sure not many people have, so sounds even better (unless it does only fix wifi..)
<cyphermox> ah?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, did you look into the exo breakage?
<Unit193> cyphermox: If that was a ponderment of further information, I had a paste (https://bitbucket.org/snippets/unit193/ERyrq) with the log, though it's 500'ing right now (support told me it should be fixed today.)
<Unit193> (Sorry.)
<cyphermox> ok, i'll go get dinner and then I do my ubiquity upload
<cyphermox> we can deal with further things lata
<Unit193> Ooooh, I like this plan of eating food.
 * knome approves
<bluesabre> Unit193, nope, what was the breakage?
<bluesabre> I know you pinged me for it before, but when you last mentioned that I couldn't find the ping
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thunar, in details view, only lets you select the first item you click on, any other item won't get selected and if you double click that first item opens.
<bluesabre> ew
<bluesabre> that sounds iccccky
<Unit193> Well, means you either can't use new exo or can't use details view.
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Or not on x-d-s.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Eh, so might as well  git clone https://bitbucket.org/snippets/unit193/ERyrq  since it's not fixed.
<bluesabre> back again
<bluesabre> Unit193, so no change on x-d-s?
<Unit193> Well, i was referring to: 
<Unit193> [17:53:11] Irssi: Topic: +: Archive: final freeze
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> yeah, will probably still upload and request release for that
<Unit193> I built x-d-s locally with it so I could get rid of -user-sess.
<bluesabre> did we ever get that docs upload?
<Unit193> I didn't see nor do it, so I presume not.
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> I'll try to get all that together then
<bluesabre> -docs and x-d-s are prio, anything else we need?
<Unit193> I know of nothing.
<bluesabre> Looks like the budgie folks are using lightdm-gtk-greeter, so they might appreciate an upload of that
<Unit193> Naaaah, who needs things that actually build?!
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-07
<bluesabre> yay for fast backlight
<Unit193> cyphermox: See anything interesting/fixable/fixed in those logs?
<cyphermox> have yet to clone.
<Unit193> Ah, KK.
<cyphermox> wow, things blew up spectacularly
<cyphermox> Unit193: are you sure the disk is good?
<cyphermox> and are you using JFS?
<Unit193> Yes, VM `gksudo` workith.  Nooope, normal run of the mill.
<Unit193> Is there perhaps an undeclared dep?
<Unit193> cyphermox: I'd have reported a bug, but when I tried that apport died (reported that one at least.)
<cyphermox> well, we run ubiquity in sudo now
<cyphermox> (if you start it with the link that is)
<Unit193> That's what I did as a workaround, sed -i s/Exec=/Exec=sudo /  on the desktop file. :3
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> well that should already be in now
<Unit193> Nasty, but functional.  Except for the maybe-ubiquity.
<Unit193> So, thanks then.  I guess the problem is at least hidden.
<cyphermox> and pkexec should get fixed in the next image maybe, if the fix works
<cyphermox> well, if it works the way I think it does
<cyphermox> maybe-ubiuqity should not have been affected, afaik
<Unit193> Coolio.
<Unit193> Thanks for taking a look.
<Unit193> flocculant: Tomorrow's ISO may have 60% less blowing up.
<bluesabre> that sounds promising
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice uploads.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> will probably get kicked tomorrow :D
<Unit193> \o
<bluesabre> __/
<bluesabre> flocculant, uploaded a new lightdm-gtk-greeter to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa, if you want to take a look to make sure nothing goes kablooey... :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [16.10.0] r623 Include patch from krytarik to fix build, update changelog, ... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> never mind, failed to build x.x
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> too tired to look into that, bbl, night all
<krytarik> bluesabre: "Successfully built on lgw01-25"  And thanks!
<Unit193> (To be precise: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/16.10/+build/10999976)
<Unit193> flocculant: Also did two upgrade tests today.
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :)
<flocculant> rebuilding our iso to catch the new ubiquity
<flocculant> and that detail view thing in thunar keeps catching me out - don't always use that view :p
<flocculant> Unit193: you mean the core one I assume btw?
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/JZ7EJry.png
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> thanks cyphermox 
<flocculant> shut down on an image doesn't work ...
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<bluesabre> morning all
<Unit193> ristretto 0.8.1-1, xfce4-radio-plugin 0.5.1-4, xfce4-cpufreq-plugin 1.1.3-1, xfce4-dict 0.7.2-1, and xfce4-notifyd 0.3.3-1 uploaded to Debian.
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> -docs built and accepted, x-d-s good too.
<Unit193> Oh meh, xfce4-notifyd 0.3.3-1 deps on 3.20..
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<bluesabre> Unit193, are you familiar with build errors when generating confdefs.h ?
<bluesabre> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/288669084/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-amd64.lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.2-0ubuntu1~ppa16.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<bluesabre> never seen anything die at that stage
<Unit193> checking for exo-csource... no
<Unit193> configure: error: in `/Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»':
<Unit193> configure: error: exo-csource not installed
<bluesabre> is that where it fails
<bluesabre> trying another build with that in the deps
<bluesabre> Unit193, that seems to fix it... I guess that used to get pulled in by another package
<Unit193> Could easily be, aye.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> flocculant, now there is a new greeter in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<bluesabre> should only require a quick spot check, will likely try to get it in later
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm
<flocculant> so I updated, logged out
<flocculant> logged in - locked - chnaged to guest went to logout, mistakenly restarted instead - on reboot it takes a looooong time to get the login dialogue up when you've restarted from guest
<Unit193> dbus-user-session still installed?
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> not needed?
<flocculant> purged it - redid the same fail I did before - same
<nairwolf> hi everyone, I should try some upgrade this weekend
<nairwolf> I will tell you if I see something wrong. 
<nairwolf> "tell you" means it will be reported to the tracker 
<ochosi> flocculant: awesome, nice to see that fixed. thanks for poking folks!
<akxwi-dave> ð
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome of course - I had time to do so :)
<flocculant> Unit193: don't know if you know - or even expected so but, core installs from desktop, not from the install option at menu
<Unit193> Dangit.  I was getting to that!  Why you have to be so fast? :(
<Unit193> (Thanks!)
<flocculant> cos it was there :p
<Unit193> Once I finish up this crypted install, I'll look.  Thanks.
<flocculant> k - appears to be the same issue as previously - not easy to tell :p
<Unit193> flocculant: So wait, I don't remember.  Do I report these? :3
<flocculant> you can if you want - I do - just keeping my hand in for when core is not an add-on at tracker ...
<Unit193> Step 15.  There's no slideshow.
<flocculant> wut
<flocculant> oic
<flocculant> I'd not bother too much about that - haven't created a testcase tailored to core - but wanted something to let people at least record against
<flocculant> all we had was http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1655/info
<flocculant> I guess the best thing to do for zebedee would be rejig that one
<Unit193> Sure, just figured I'd mention it.  Figured it wasn't really noteworthy but IRC is cheap.  Also mainly noticed because this time I was trying to find the difference between the two. :P
<flocculant> well - difference between the 2 is enormous :p
<Unit193> Yep, not in title, but mini vs squashfs.  Latter is muuch faster. :P
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> there - reported on testcases - I'll get to it next month ish
<Unit193> Oh hah, I was just going to ignore from now on. :P
<flocculant> I'd not have tested this as often using mini with dial-up that's for sure :p
<flocculant> Unit193: well yea - but one day perhaps more than you and I will check it :D
<Unit193> And, err..  Maybe one day I'll actually report it every time I do.  I suuuuck. >_<
<Unit193> "Oh it's just a spot check, hardly worth reporting" >_<
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I only test it when I see it in here tbh
<Unit193> I reported all upgrades!  And yeah, that still has you testing it a lot.
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> yep - I see upgrade testings 
<Unit193> (I'm going to be upset if this install doesn't fail...)  At what point during the install does it fail if you select from the boot menu?
<flocculant> more or less at the end
<flocculant> is it still installing ?
<Unit193> First install went fine, doing the menu one now.  It's still going.
<flocculant> oh no - actually as soon as it finishes 'copying files' 
<flocculant> that's zsynced iso here
<Unit193> I selected the wrong ISO, but same version of ubiquity and generally similer setup.
<flocculant> testing the 64bit 
<flocculant> I was ^^
<Unit193> Well crap, going to do 3 installs it looks like..
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> so it's working for you?
<Unit193> That's my fault, I'll fix it and re-try.
<ochosi_> hey everyone
<ochosi_> how's the release coming along?
<Unit193> Well, flocculant is right and using the install-only menu crashes. :P
<Unit193> ..On Core.
<Unit193> cyphermox: Want another syslog output? ;3
<Unit193> (Which I understand is poorly formed English, but oh well.)
<cyphermox> Unit193, file a bug, i will look later when i am back home 
<Unit193> And now LP starts OOPsing. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-08
<flocculant> morning
<flocculant> ochosi: looks ok here
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<flocculant> bluesabre: not asure what the crack is with the greeter - not seeing the same behaviour on a vm - not had time to check out a clean hardware install either, but it's definitey odd here - but possibly have an odd install anyway :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, so is it just the ppa greeter that has issues?
<flocculant> yea yea
<bluesabre> alrighty, we'll not push to have that in yak then :)
<flocculant> yup
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave will get to deal with that one :D
<flocculant> I will check on a clean install of course
<flocculant> \o/
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre: , flocculant 
<akxwi-dave> whats the problem with the greeter?
<akxwi-dave> irrcloud had  probs yesterday, and i may have lost some convo's
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: no problem with the released greeter - we've been looking at updated one - causing issues here for me so we're not doing anything with it till zealous zebedee
<akxwi-dave> ð  well todays images are running nicely on both laptops... :-)
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> yesterdays I assume - todays is still populating - cron got stopped last night :)
<flocculant> I just tried to zsync - and it failed - now it works :p
<akxwi-dave> oops  just downloaded them.. didnt check the date.. slap on hands
<flocculant> shouldn't be any xubuntu difference 
<akxwi-dave> yep yesterdays
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: can you keep an eye on tracker as well - if it looks sparsely tested poke dev mail list - you can also mail lp testers as you're admin on that group 
<flocculant> in and out over the weekend 
<flocculant> doubt we'll see much on it yet 
<akxwi-dave> will do
<akxwi-dave> bbl
<Unit193> flocculant: Try thunar from Debian, -3
<flocculant> worse?
<Unit193> It's using a different patch than we are.  We're using two git commits+"patch 30".
<flocculant> which one? sid? stretch?
<Unit193> Unstable, might have to wait a bit for it to build, but I'll be out (I need to leave now.)
<flocculant> later then :)
<flocculant> have fun
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-09
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r477 Remove blue frame (#154)... (by afdw)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you can hate me if you want - but it's only for another 5 days :p
<flocculant> bug 1631715
<ubottu> bug 1631715 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Password required twice returning from suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631715
<flocculant> that's on a clean install - can't reproduce it here on this one with ppas etc
<flocculant> bluesabre: well that's bizarre, removed all ppa's, restarted - suspended - got 2 requests for password
<flocculant> put back all the ppa's - restarted - suspended - got 2 requests for password
<flocculant> this only happens with suspend - lock works as expected
<bluesabre> flocculant, huh, that's odd, (+ ochosi)
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe something about the lock-delay setting, but i'm not sure
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - I certainly didn't see this issue when we were omgchangelock and back and forth checking things  
<flocculant> hence the bug report
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: that confused me :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, oh hey, looks like the resize background was fixed in ubiquity
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/2X43kkd.png
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh yea - sorry, thought you knew that :)
<bluesabre> missed it :)
<flocculant> I hassled cyphermox - who's a really cool dude :D
<bluesabre> cyphermox is pretty legit
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've got this odd suspend issue on the notes - but if I don't see it confirmed, or it looks like it's *specific hardware* I might lose it
<bluesabre> flocculant, what odd suspend issue?
<bluesabre> going to grab a bite, bbabl
<flocculant> the one you commented on in here about 3 hours ago ...
<bluesabre> ah, that one
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks for trying to reproduce it :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Did you see if that thunar worked better for you?
<flocculant> ummm
<flocculant> the one I forgot all about :p
<flocculant> Unit193: 1.6-10-3 ?
<Unit193> Ayep.
<flocculant> sigh - bunch of dependency stuff to deal with for it ;)
<Unit193> Oh hrm.  I can drop it in my staging one.
<flocculant> Unit193: not the detailed view issues
<flocculant> Unit193: so had a quick check with 1.6-10-3, detailed view still a problem - but assume that to be the gtk3 exo, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c32
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<flocculant> that still fails as well
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-03
<tracker3> I need help I cant update my cumputer and when I try to swicht off It start in the same point
<tracker3> E:Type 'sudo' is not known on line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list, E:The list of sources could not be read.
<tracker3> this is the error
<tracker3> E: Tipo Â«sudoÂ» desconocido en la lÃ­nea 1 de la lista de fuentes /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list E: No se pudo leer la lista de fuentes. Vaya al diÃ¡logo del repositorio para corregir el problema. E: _cache->open() failed, please report.
<tracker3> hello
<knome> well they totally just updated the system requirements wiki page
<knome>   
<knome>   == Ubuntu Desktop Edition ==
<knome>   
<knome> -  *  700 MHz processor (about Intel Celeron or better)
<knome> +  *  2 GHz dual core processor
<knome> -  *  512 MiB RAM (system memory)
<knome> +  *  2 GiB RAM (system memory)
<knome> -  * 5 GB of hard-drive space (or USB stick, memory card or external drive but see LiveCD for an alternative approach)
<knome> +  * 25 GB of hard-drive space (or USB stick, memory card or external drive but see LiveCD for an alternative approach)
<knome> sorry for the slight flood...
<knome> pleia2, https://twitter.com/pakitogen/status/915051048687030277
<knome> for the answer, i'd say "jani monoses had a strong influence when xubuntu was originally created", but i'm not sure what we want to do with this (reply from the official account or sth else)
<flocculant> so a bit more realistic then :D
<knome> probably..
<Unit193> So that nasty "everything shows up on the desktop" bug?  Still there in Artful, seems to be gone in Debian.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-04
<flocculant> the one I don't see bug
<flocculant> good lord - a firefox update without mucking about ...
<bluesabre> Unit193: can you confirm if it affects anything other than Xubuntu so we can get some more eyes on it?
<bluesabre> This was not a very productive cycle for the team... https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-timeline
<Unit193> [18:44:21] < jbicha> Unit193: didrocks is working on the glib 2.54.1-1 merge this week
<bluesabre> Cool
<Unit193> Soo, still need to?
<bluesabre> Unit193: you should be off the hook then :)
<Unit193> Yey!
<Unit193> Still a regression from Zesty, just not as bad.
<knome> bluesabre, yeah... better luck next cycle
<knome> it's LTS, so yeah, it will be more active
 * flocculant christens LTS cycle - ODWAT cycle ... 
<flocculant> oh d'oh what about that 
<pleia2> knome: done, pointed them at ancient xubuntu-devel archives too
<pleia2> (on my own, not via @xubuntu)
<knome> pleia2, ta
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-05
<Unit193> Err, oh dear... gtk+3.0 [3.22.21-0ubuntu1 => 3.22.24-0ubuntu1]
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Sean!
<bluesabre> Unit!
<flocculant> bluesabre: seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl2/+bug/1719825 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1719825 in libsdl2 (Ubuntu) "[Ffe] sdl2 2.0.6" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Unit193> Can confirm, glib2.0 bug is fixed "well enough"
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-06
<bluesabre> flocculant: I have now, anything we should be concerned about there?
<flocculant> bluesabre: not that I know of - that's why I pinged you :)
<flocculant> think they were looking for acks or forever hold your peace comments :)
<bluesabre> Looks like we'll be unaffected... something in our supported set pulls it, but it's nothing we ship
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - I'll comment for us
<flocculant> ochosi: I'm guessing that icons here at the ubuntu login icons, anyway point is the restart used to be red, which wasn't so bad, but now is Ubuntu orange whihc is a bit incongruous imo https://i.imgur.com/kNqqSDC.png
<ochosi> flocculant: shutdown was red, restart was always orange. should probably make it the same blue as in the session logout dialog (although that depends on the icon theme)
<flocculant> oh ok - thought it had changed
<ochosi> i don't mind changing it, but i'm afraid it would only take effect in 18.04
<ochosi> unless we want to do a UIFe
<flocculant> not that worried :)
<flocculant> but perhaps for 1804 would be nice 
<ochosi> mind to create an issue on github so i don't forget?
<flocculant> no problem - where though ? shimmer? 
<ochosi> there's only this: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> done - didn't write much - enough so you don't forget :D
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-01
<brainwash> reminds me of Lubuntu https://i.imgur.com/VR86Cat.png
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-3-0-released-tp51878.html (by Graeme Gott)
<flocculant> brainwash: yes it is
<flocculant> but - package testing is pretty much non-existent
<flocculant> so *shrug*
<brainwash> flocculant: can you link that test?
<brainwash> a test case for sound events
<flocculant> brainwash: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/packages/Xfce/1575_Xfce4%20Appearance%20Settings
<flocculant> but is it a bug with that or with xfce?
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug if you decide to file against testcase - please have the testcase # in the summary :)
<brainwash> the test case would requite the user to perform several steps beforehand: install libcanberra-gtk-module, set GTK_MODULES="canberra-gtk-module", create sound files for window-minimized/-maximized, and finally relog
<brainwash> libcanberra-pulse may be needed also
<flocculant> well
<brainwash> so, best to remove that test
<flocculant> yea for sure 
<flocculant> bug report it 
<flocculant> afk for a while now 
<flocculant> actually - rather than remove - make it optional part of the test, and add all ^^ to it for those who want to
<brainwash> I was thinking that it may be cool to make sound events work out-of-the-box (if enabled by the user)
<flocculant> then bluesabre and Unit193 are the people to talk to :D
<brainwash> this would not include sounds for minimizing/maximizing windows though :)
<brainwash> don't need those
<flocculant> that would be a short way to get it all turned off here :D
<brainwash> right. let's see if bluesabre likes that idea
<flocculant> blueprint for dippy doofus cycle
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you want me to fix the margin issue in the windowbuttons you gotta pull that patch of mine for the panel into xubuntu ;)
<bluesabre> brainwash, flocculant, not opposed until I know how annoying it might be
<bluesabre> ochosi, alrighty, cool
<brainwash> bluesabre: it wouldn't be unless you enable it in the settings. the idea is to make the setting work without having the user to install additional packages or setting up env vars.
<bluesabre> brainwash: gotcha. That seems fair.
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1321445/comments/21
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1321445 in xfce4-session (Fedora) "enable sound events in xfce4-appearance-settings doesn't work" [Medium,In progress]
<brainwash> minus the extra sounds
<brainwash> in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/56xubuntu-session there could be a check for libcanberra
<brainwash> if present, set GTK_MODULES
<ochosi> bluesabre: how motivated are you to run the FFE with me for xfce4-settings for cosmic? (on a scale of 0..10)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm a bit hesitant right now, with just over 2 weeks from the release
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-02
<Unit193> - Custom actions without icon can cause crash (Bug #14464)   Hrm.
<ubottu> bug 14464 in nautilus-cd-burner (Ubuntu) "nautilus-cd-burner does not autodetect maximum write speed" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14464
<ochosi> bluesabre: i presumed so, that's why i was asking on a scale of 0..10 ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: perhaps a 3?
<Managor> Hey, anyone here? I'm asking if this feature would be finally possible to be merged to the main project https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14154
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14154 in General "Make window lowering with middle click optional" [Enhancement,New]
<brainwash> Managor: you want #xfce-dev
<Managor> Darn. I already made a message on <#496711276118933534> as well... I'll continue pinging channels
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.13.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-13-5-released-tp51892.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> ochosi: great work!
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> happy i got it out of the door finally
<ochosi> still working on the release blog post
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> aaaaand done: https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2018/10/02/new-xfce4-settings-release/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-03
<Spass> more info about the left and top screen edge flickering (e.g. Whisker) - did some testing on Kubuntu 18.04 and Latte dock doesn't flicker, but Plank does, so maybe it is GTK related?
<Unit193> Did you try turning off gtk animations?
<Spass> Unit193, no, where I can disable them?
<Unit193> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface enable-animations false  ?
<Unit193> Was pretty sure it was in the settings editor under Gtk
<Spass> ok, will try that
<brainwash> Spass: it happens in 18.10 too, right?
<Spass> brainwash, on Xubuntu 18.10 too, yeah
<brainwash> ok
<Spass> didn't try other 18.10 flavours, but I assume it's the same
<Spass> Unit193, animations disabled, Plank still flickers
<brainwash> I would ask in the gtk channel on the gnome irc network, maybe they can help you identify the cause of this bug
<Spass> not sure if it's really GTK-related, but I tried so many things so far... on couple distros
<brainwash> you have to start somewhere
<Spass> it began somewhere in the 17.04 era and it persist from then
<brainwash> the gtk people surely know some tricks on how to debug something like this
<Spass> so maybe that is a clue, maybe a specific GTK version, Xorg version / something else was introduced that time
<Spass> brainwash, here's some more details - https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2397371
<brainwash> 16.04.5 should have newer xorg and kernel, maybe worth giving that older version a try too
<brainwash> see if this bug was introduced in that release also
<Spass> sure, will try, I have that ISO so I'll burn on my USB now
<brainwash> it does not happen when using a VM, right?
<brainwash> VM in full screen mode
<Spass> yes, all good when in VM
<brainwash> ok
<Spass> brainwash, just tested Xubuntu 16.04.1, interesting info that may suggest that it's indeed a GTK3-related issue
<Spass> Plank flickers, but Whisker menu doesn't
<Spass> I think that 16.04.5 has Whisker still as a GTK2 plugin
<Spass> and Indicator Plugin on the panel (WiFi, Bluetooth and sound) flickers, and I think it's a GTK3 plugin
<Spass> so to summarize, seems like there's something wrong with GTK3 apps / elements on top and left screen edge
<brainwash> Spass: you tested with both .1 and .5?
<Spass> only with .5
<brainwash> so it was a typo
<Spass> oh, sorry, yeah didn't notice that typo
<Unit193> bluesabre: I slipped xfwm4 in as a bugfix release (because, well, it's a bugfix release..)
<bluesabre> Unit193: that makes sense :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-05
<flocculant> bluesabre: here's one - grabbed a screenshot of a thing, open it with the default app - how can I print it?
<flocculant> In fact with the default 18.04 how do I print it? 
<flocculant> and to forestall all the - this is the dev channel nonsense - I asked in #x
<flocculant> and it ended in nonsense 
<Unit193> But, but, but...I did a helpful. :(
<flocculant> ha ha - I love you - purely puritanical
<flocculant> unless they're weirdo's
<flocculant> in which case I don't - I hate you
<flocculant> unless the weirdo's do that
<flocculant> slickymaster: I toild it to change the address - but I did it linux so it knew what was best, so you doidn't get the memo
<flocculant> so I fwdd it ...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-06
<bluesabre> knome, is the final version of the wallpaper ready to go?
<knome> bluesabre, no. but will be latest tue.
<bluesabre> knome: thanks (and sorry for nagging)
<knome> np, thanks for th reminders
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-07
<brainwash> ochosi: should bug 1767560 be moved to the elementary-xfce issue tracker?
<ubottu> bug 1767560 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Battery graph in tray icon is inaccurate" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767560
<brainwash> or to the elementary project?
<brainwash> maybe it does not need fixing after all
<Unit193> thunar 1.8.2-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #856598, #910353)
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.3.0-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<Unit193> thunar-volman 0.9.0-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #899710)
<Unit193> exo 0.12.2-2 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<brainwash> bluesabre: is your busy week over?
<brainwash> I'm still looking for someone to test https://launchpadlibrarian.net/388564839/xfsm-systemd.c.patch
<bluesabre> brainwash: the last day is tomorrow, but what's up?
<bluesabre> ah
<brainwash> yeah. that screen locking stuff again.
<bluesabre> brainwash: so what does this patch do?
<brainwash> g_spawn_command_line_async -> g_spawn_command_line_sync
<brainwash> wait until xflock4 exists, then suspend the system
<brainwash> exits
<brainwash> that should ensure that the screen is locked before suspend
<brainwash> https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon-session/blob/master/cinnamon-session/csm-manager.c#L1167
<brainwash> like this I guess
<bluesabre> brainwash: that makes a lot of sense
<brainwash> oddly, the patch breaks initiating suspend for me
<brainwash> that's why I asked you to test it
<brainwash> async may be required in case xflock4 does not exit immediately, so can't go full sync
<brainwash> some locker commands wait until the user has unlocked the screen
<bluesabre> Sounds odd
<Unit193> (More Xfce uploads too.)
<ochosi> brainwash: commented on the report, it's definitely not xfpm
<brainwash> thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> i actually understand the sentiment of the reporter
<ochosi> but that's the price of relying on upower...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-02
<ochosi> knome: reminder: wallpaper
<ochosi> knome: reminder: team meeting
<knome> yes, there is now some progress on the wallpaper
<knome> for the team meeting, it's likely better is somebody else schedules if it's needed "soon"
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure -panel will make it at this point..
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> that sucks
<ochosi> do ppl will complain another cycle long about that systray issue
<Unit193> SRU, if no FFe?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed OEM linux kernel flavour, with the others @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=09fdf7afee361af4eb32389613f7e7d1179e13da (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah i guess... i tried to do the release asap though to enable us to get it into eoan more easily than SRU
<bluesabre> ochosi: sorry about that, didn't get a free moment from work last month
<Unit193> It happens.
<ochosi> no worries, it's ok
<ochosi> people should learn to rely on the systray less and less anyway ;)
<Unit193> I don't really see any reason to prefer indicators over systray, but I don't really use the latter.
<bluesabre> What was the issue being addressed?
<ochosi> systray being corrupted visually without compositin
<ochosi> g
<bluesabre> Ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> Well, can still SRU that. I'll work on it tonight
<Unit193> Hey look, there's three of us here!  Meeting time! :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything besides the wallpaper pending?
<bluesabre> Unit193: no idea, I'm completely behind and just now starting to catch back up
<ochosi> updating the default panel layout a bit to enable grouping in tasklist would have been a nice-to-have
<ochosi> but i totally forgot about that
<ochosi> let's try to make the LTS cound
<ochosi> count
<Unit193> That means you can't move them, naaaah. :P
<ochosi> wow you do that?
<ochosi> i've never DnD'd a single window in the tasklist *ever*
<Unit193> ..You don't sort them?  I open things in a specific order, and if things have to be restarted I will move them.
<Unit193> ...I really shouldn't have written that.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> That's actually what annoyed me greatly with Windows 7, it'd "link" windows of the same application together, and the only way to fix the order was to close them and re-open.  It was stupid.
<bluesabre> I rearrange the window list when I use it... jumping around and not staying put is no good
<bluesabre> hence, the addiction to plank
<bluesabre> Window buttons are always where they were
<Unit193> ochosi: Joking aside, that's fine.  I can change a setting, after all it's now on what I use now. :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i think all of those things are habits
<ochosi> i was also using plank for a long time
<ochosi> but then i thought i need to get rid of it to remain motivated to improve stuff in our panel
<ochosi> that's why i improved the grouping code in the end
<Unit193> I use the panel, only issue I have is when I send -r, it quits.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-03
<ochosi> Unit193: and running it with gdb so you can give me a backtrace for that?
<Unit193> Heh, first time I've installed a dbgsym package from that repo. :P
<Unit193> Ugh, restarting the panel means I have to re-sort everything.
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm not hitting it right now. :/
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> maybe related to a plugin?
<ochosi> although it would have to be an internal one to make the panel crash...
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/kMbz9fNWE0GDIzLj5mR9/ doesn't really look like a crash exactly..
<ochosi> Unit193: that's just the regular terminal output, no? or did you use PANEL_DEBUG=gdb?
<ochosi> cause that by itself doesn't tell me much
<Unit193> Indeed it doesn't, and yeah not running under debug.  The issue is it sits for a while before I restart, and as noted if I quit and start it, I can't seem to hit the issue.
<ochosi> you'd have to always start it in debug mode...
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaFreeze (last edited by micahg) :)
<bluesabre> Went ahead and pushed the panel since its a bugfix release... hopefully will just slide through the queue :)
<ochosi> kewl
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> i think they added an auto-approve mechanism this cycle
<ochosi> so it may actually just slide through unnoticed
<bluesabre> I think that only applies to unseeded things, so it will require an approval
<bluesabre> Up until the last few days, they sometimes just release the queue
<bluesabre> That's what I'm hoping for :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Move non-cloud kernels from supported-cloud to supported-kernel-common. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=af3ab25c182186b6f781fabdbbf207979224305a (by Adam Conrad)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add missing linux-snapdragon to supported-kernel-common. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a155c3c2200746fb4db6313c59833c1f16a8f6fb (by Adam Conrad)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-04
<Unit193> ...Oh, hah.  I waited too long to get thunar-dropbox-plugin into Ubuntu. \o/
<Unit193> ...Not that I think anyone cares.
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nautilus-dropbox/news/20191001T000431Z.html - https://packages.qa.debian.org/t/thunar-dropbox-plugin/news/20191004T051947Z.html
<bluesabre> o/ I use dropbox, and install thunar-dropbox when I remember
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Unseed linux-oem-osp1 per IRC discussion and LP: #1846213 @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=ebaa5922105ff8fa759e1e1b56aefd0d2dab70cc (by Adam Conrad)
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=925078
<ubottu> Debian bug 925078 in sgt-puzzles "sgt-puzzles: Please update package from fresh upstream." [Wishlist,Open]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-06
<knome> bluesabre, around? ;)
<bluesabre> knome, pretty much all the time :)
<knome> ok, i have the kind of finished wallpaper here now :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Before the RC, I dig it ;)
<knome> now let's figure out where i need to push it
<knome> yeah, life's busy
<bluesabre> Same
<knome> pls halp!
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/+git/xubuntu-artwork/+ref/eoan
<knome> :D
<knome> thanks
<knome> sigh @ stuff
<knome> i don't remember most of this any more
<bluesabre> Doesn't help that we moved this around somewhat recently
<knome> yep
<knome> bluesabre, do i need to open the .1 tag?
<bluesabre> knome: I can do that if you'd like, along with the upload
<knome> nah, it's fine
<knome> just asking if i need .1 since 19.10 is not UNRELEASED
<bluesabre> Yeah, we'd want to apply the tag to the same as the release upload. So feel free to leave it off (I probably need to do some package updates at the same time)
<knome> so add to 19.10?
<bluesabre> Just don't tag it, git add; git commit; git push; and I'll take it from there
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> aha
<knome> ok
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1846935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846935 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New wallpaper for Xubuntu 19.10" [Undecided,New]
<knome> and https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=231148c824cc22ecc77b4bc7d07bfc1ea8135259
<knome> -release is subbed to bug
<bluesabre> thanks knome!
<knome> you can do a council ack if you want
<knome> np
<bluesabre> knome: that looks very nice :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update Xubuntu version number and link to the development wallpaper @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=9ca0c0f456ee0f9e5b89b1c970fffeb5cc29f284 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: New wallpaper for Xubuntu 19.10 (UIFe bug #1846935) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=231148c824cc22ecc77b4bc7d07bfc1ea8135259 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<Spass> back to blue & teal, nice
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/copyright: Include full CC-BY-SA-3.0 (incomplete-creative-commons-license) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=5503727cd2cf89e9771915fd9344514a5eca212e (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Drop .bzr-builddeb, we're no longer using bzr for xubuntu-artwork @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=cca13ef5d4947290f0f9dd8eca87ad35dfb1548b (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Create .gitignore, add debian/files @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=f2ec57591fdac9a38a9ab6f2f4357cdf43de181e (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/copyright: Refresh copyright information, last updated in 2015 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=289933f9fba06fee4d85edd9dd3811366b6a9a76 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/control, d/compat: Bump debhelper to 12; Bump Standards-Version to 4.4.0; Update VCS links @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=3a435dc670e176da8c7fb2cbdb78ec900520571e (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> > 4.4.1
<bluesabre> ubuntu behind as always on that
<Unit193> I mean, it doesn't matter..
<bluesabre> yeah :)
<bluesabre> how are you Unit193?
<Unit193> !info debian-policy eoan
<ubottu> debian-policy (source: debian-policy): Debian Policy Manual and related documents. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.4.1.1 (eoan), package size 2076 kB, installed size 4271 kB
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can't sleep. :(
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> What's up for you this morning?
<bluesabre> Just doing some overdue package surgery to xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> Then... ?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/control: Set Rules-Requires-Root to no @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=b31ec7d1ff212b079c570f21509a2362b46fda69 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/s/lintian-overrides: xubuntu-artwork source: testsuite-autopkgtest-missing @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=a80192b25fc62d02798a2c69d69b0a9d26048f66 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/control: Lintian fixes for xubuntu-icon-theme transitional package @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=85b3040e0fcb1fd26afa0fec143b3b8b2f42f8b8 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> Wait, do you know about the thing?
<Unit193> https://git.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/barrier.git/commit/?id=7daa0a02c994660888f6307b733f304f1b47d4ad
<bluesabre> Unit193: I do now :)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> Unit193: do we need to start caring about this soon?
<bluesabre> > dh_gconf --priority=20
<bluesabre> > dh_gconf: Please migrate to dh_installgsettings; gconf + dh_gconf is scheduled for removal.
<Unit193> Yeah, but we can just drop it because it doesn't matter.
<Unit193> (Check what's in gconf, it's dated.)
<bluesabre> oh I see
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/control: Updated package descriptions (description-is-pkg-name, extended-description-is-probably-t... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=718182d313975cafd28bdd2cd8cea466a17bf0f1 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/compat, d/control: Drop d/compat in favor of debhelper-compat, bump to 12 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=f2a9bd2443ac545a07c142eb508bcd01846f2d2e (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/rules: Drop gh_dconf override, we no longer ship gconf settings @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=4c91f925f75a5934affe9fa09d0e012139c62f03 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> That should be everything
<Unit193> \o/
