#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-28
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey mvo
<mvo> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hiya seb128
<seb128> hello dholbach
<mvo> sey seb128
<seb128> hey mvo!
<seb128> doh, lot of bug activity since hardy
<mvo> yeah, my bug mailbox is not fun
<Hobbsee> mvo: introduce a data loss bug.
<mvo> heh :) they won't let me close to LP (I tihnk I now know why)
<Hobbsee> mvo: i'm sure you could bribe smoeone.
<Hobbsee> mvo: or do a mass status change, or something
<slomo_> mvo: hi :) is there some magic commandline switch to let update-manager update from feisty to hardy directly? i can't update to gutsy before because it doesn't boot on that machine because of a broken device driver... and i want to prevent apt-get dist-upgrade because iirc update-manager has special things for resolving common conflicts
<mvo> slomo_: you can only do it with manual hacking, easiest it probably to change /etc/lsb-release to dapper and use the update-manager-core from dapper to run the upgrade then (but this is not official advice ;)
<slomo_> mvo: ok, so the best is probably manual dist-upgrade? :)
<mvo> slomo_: if you do that, run apt-get install dpkg apt first, before the dist-upgrade so that the triggers code is available (needs new apt/dpkg)
<mvo> seb128: do you think the scrollkeeper bug might be releated to a invalid xml ? bug #222459 (and probably others) show invalid xml for the blackjack el translations in gnome-games
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 222459 in pkgsel "xml parser error during upgrade to 8.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222459
<seb128> mvo: I doubt of it, this one is a duplicate btw
<mvo> seb128: I would like to milestone the xml error (if that hasn't been done already)
<mvo> seb128: do you remember the bugnumber of hand so that I can dup it?
<seb128> mvo: I played on the idea saturday and corrupted some of the scrollkeeper files since some of the logs had xml errors but no error in valgrind still, and some of crash log have no invalid xml errors
 * mvo nods
<mvo> ok, thanks for checking that
<seb128> mvo: I'm wondering why people focus on this translation error, we got a surprising number of bugs and comment, that's only command line noise
<seb128> mvo: bug #216789
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216789 in gnome-games "Broken "el" translation of help file" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216789
<seb128> gicmo!
<huats> morning everyone !
<huats> seb128: hey you
<huats> :)
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> I hope you haven't miss me a lot, I was on holidays till tis morning :)
<gicmo> seb128: hey hey
<seb128> bah
<seb128> I got 922 bug mails in bugsbox during the weekend
<seb128> and that's only desktop components I'm subscribed to
<huats> seb128: oh :(
<huats> i am just exploring my emails right now (after a 2 weeks break...) and it is true that I see a lot with your name on it...
<huats> (I mean in the bugbix...)
<huats> (bugbox)
<mvo> hrm, so far it looks like a lot of the failure reports are due to the scrollkeeper bug, a really nasty one it seems :(
<seb128> mvo: rebuild in nostrip mode and start running under valgrind too
<seb128> mvo: maybe one of us will success to get an error log
<mvo> yeah, I will do that after I finished my triage of the u-m reports that came in over the weekend
<seb128> brb
<seb128> pitti: the gnome-panel locations come from libgweather so bugs about incorrect datas should be reassigned there
<pitti> seb128: aah, thanks; will do that in the future
<Ng> seb128: have you come acros any reports of crashing (possibly machine crashing?!) wrt the clock applet?
<Ng> mbonnefon is saying such a thing happens. I'm just sorting out something else from her upgrade and then I'll see if I can persuade her to let me crash it ;)
<seb128> Ng: crashing in which sense?
<seb128> Ng: we have quite some bugs about the gnome-panel freezing when opening the applet, those seems to be due either to google calendar use or evolution-data-server crashes
<seb128> Ng: not easy to get useful reply from submitter though :-(
<Ng> seb128: interesting, that sounds more plausible than the machine crashing
<Ng> when I'm done rsyncing her ~ I'll persuade her to let me try it and try to get you some useful info :)
<seb128> Ng: the gnome-panel stop working, so no way to open the menus, etc but alt-tab, switching desktop using the keyboard etc should still be working
<Ng> I can see how she'd interpret that as "crashes my computer" :)
<seb128> Ng: bug #204775
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204775 in gnome-panel "hardy final, selecting gnome panel intlclock causes top bar and many other things to not respond" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204775
<Ng> ta
<seb128> Ng: I tried to get extra infos less than one hour ago and filed http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=530323 about some e-d-s errors
<ubotu> Gnome bug 530323 in Contacts "valgrind invalid read and write errors" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<Ng> seb128: can't reproduce it, it's working fine now :(
<seb128> Ng: right, I got the issue once on a new hardy installation here and I've difficulties to trigger it again too
<Ng> :/
<seb128> but I think I got the error in valgrind, so I just need to work with upstream on a fix and get that to hardy-proposed and see if that makes things better for people have the bug
<seb128> trying again
<seb128> brb
<seb128> re
 * Amaranth looks around
<Amaranth> seb128: About the panel locking up, if it started to pop up the menu then locked up wouldn't it prevent your mouse from working too
<Amaranth> Since it had a grab on it
<Amaranth> keyboard too, i think
<seb128> I guess it could but I'm not sure why it should
<seb128> that doesn't grab the pointer
<Amaranth> a popup menu does
<Amaranth> oh, but that menu isn't a popup menu
<Amaranth> it's just a widget that appears
<seb128> right
<Amaranth> well, i suppose the compiz animation plugin could be dying right then and making compiz lock up, then the machine will look dead :)
 * Ng h9 grabbing
<DShepherd> http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/is-ubuntu-useable-enough-for-my-girlfriend -- interesting read about the usability of the ubuntu desktop
<xhaker> seb128: I can't get the thing to crash when i run e-d-s on valgrind
<xhaker> seb128: any idea?
<seb128> xhaker: the valgrind log might have "Invalid read, write" errors in case where there is no crash too
<seb128> xhaker: incorrect memory use don't always crash but valgrind might log an error anyway
<seb128> otherwise it might be a race issue
<xhaker> do you want a long run log or starting, and clicking the applet should show something?
<seb128> whatever you usually do to get the crash
<seb128> you can run valgrind without giving it a log filename
<seb128> in which case it'll print errors on the standard command line
<seb128> also no need to use --leak-check=full in this case
<seb128> that will only create noise
<xhaker> funny.. the calendar takes some time to show, but eventually does under valgrind
<xhaker> the first time only
<xhaker> i dont see any invalid read, write
<xhaker> it might be a race then.. i'm not sure but i think sometimes e-d-s doesn't start on login
<xhaker> it does eventually start when i click the applet
<xhaker> so maybe.. it just crashes when it does get started on login..
<seb128> xhaker: do you get the crash every time usually?
<seb128> xhaker: can you copy the log on http://paste.ubuntu.com?
<xhaker> not everytime.. but always only after a reboot
<xhaker> login out/in doesn't seem to do it
<seb128> ok
<seb128> and doing evolution --force-shutdown and trying again doesn't make a difference?
<xhaker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8494/
<xhaker> seb128: doesn't seem to.. but i can try a few times
<seb128> no error there
<seb128> ok, so what you can do is
<xhaker> should e-d-s be started on login?
<seb128> sudo cp evolution-data-server evolution-data-server.ubuntu
<seb128> sudo gedit evolution-data-server
<seb128> #!/bin/sh
<seb128> valgrind command
<xhaker> ooh yeah
<seb128> sudo chmod +x evolution-data-server
<seb128> and use a path for the log, ie /tmp/valgrind.log
<seb128> so you know where to find it
<seb128> otherwise if that's a race same thing but no valgrind
<seb128> still set G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly
<seb128> that might give a better stacktrace
<xhaker> good idea--
<xhaker> let me try that
<mpt> DShepherd, that's really cool
<DShepherd> mpt, the article?
<mpt> yeah
<mpt> (I just came across it independently, then looked in here to see if anyone had mentioned it:-)
<DShepherd> mpt, yeah i think ubuntu can take a few hints from this.
<DShepherd> :-)
<andreasn> DShepherd: url?
<DShepherd> http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/is-ubuntu-useable-enough-for-my-girlfriend
<seb128> there is some weird tasks there
<xhaker> seb128: if this is a race how can i debug? you said same thing without valgrind?
<DShepherd> seb128, the fouth task is weird
<seb128> xhaker: use the wrapper to run G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly evolution-data-server
<seb128> xhaker: then attach gdb and get a stacktrace the normal way
<seb128> xhaker: that should show the invalid free maybe, the stacktrace using the allocator might be harder to read
<xhaker> seb128: i can't make it crash with G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly
<seb128> ok, all that is weird
<xhaker> seems to be the only variable since yesterday
<seb128> is it still crashing in normal run?
<xhaker> seb128: it should.. or maybe todays date is not problematic, haha
<xhaker> i'd have to try again.
<mvo> is there a way to bring up the logout dialog in gnome by running some command/script?
<mvo> seb128: is there a way to bring up the logout dialog in gnome by running some command/script?
<seb128> mvo: gnome-session-save --kill I think
<seb128> brb, trying another change
<seb128> xhaker: still around?
<xhaker> seb128: yes
<seb128> xhaker: do you have a stock evolution config?
<xhaker> without the G_* env vars i can crash it now
<seb128> or do you have adressbooks, etc configured?
<xhaker> i don't have anything configured in evo
<seb128> xhaker: what arch do you use?
<xhaker> i'm FlÃ¡vio Martins in launchpad
<xhaker> so.. x86
<seb128> I know, I just didn't note who was using what arch exactly
<seb128> ok, I'll build you a test package
<seb128> I got an error in valgrind and spotted and obvious issue, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=110039&action=view
<seb128> same list freed twice there
<xhaker> yeah, the first one is really in a strange place
<xhaker> not even idented the same
<seb128> xhaker: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/evolution-data-server_2.22.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
<seb128> xhaker: try installing this one and see if that fixes your issue
<xhaker> seb128: any reason for that package to depend on libdb4.4?
<seb128> xhaker: because that's the version I have on my laptop and I built it there
<seb128> xhaker: I can rebuild using libdb4.6 if you want
<xhaker> no.. don't bother
<seb128> xhaker: that's just to do a quick testing, I'll upload the change as a stable update anyway, so if you want install this one and then come back to the hardy version and remove libdb4.4 again
<xhaker> seb128: you might have fixed it
<xhaker> 2 reboots.. no crash
<xhaker> will continue using this version, and see if i can make it crash
<seb128> xhaker: good, I've uploaded as a sru, it needs to be approved now but should be in hardy-proposed is not too long
<seb128> xhaker: ok, thanks for the testing and the help tracking the issue ;-)
<xhaker> i don't have proposed enabled yet.. good time to do it
<xhaker> seb128: thanks for fixing it :) fingers crossed
<xhaker> seb128: you there. i think i've found another bug in clock-applet
<xhaker> seb128: it might solve it for amd64 users now
<xhaker> it's in gnome-panel 2.21.3
<xhaker> 2.22.1.3 rather
<xhaker> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-panel/trunk/applets/clock/ChangeLog?view=markup&pathrev=11083
<xhaker> the last change before 2.22.1.3 release :D
<seb128> xhaker: we have this patch already, I backported it before hardy
<seb128> xhaker: if you are speaking about the gsize against unsigned int issue
 * xhaker checks changelog again
<xhaker> it's the very last change. it seems i'm blind
<xhaker> guess it's wait and see.. i might even install amd64 to test it.. x86 or x86_64 runs in this laptop
<seb128> xhaker: what issue do you have?
<xhaker> i'm still talking about the clock applet bug.
<seb128> xhaker: do you still get it with the patched e-d-s?
<xhaker> nope. but did you read the latest comments?
<xhaker> they probably are affected by something else
<xhaker> they're reporting they are not able to crash the applet *today*
<xhaker> what is special about today?
<xhaker> :D
<seb128> xhaker: they might have added a contact in evolution since
<seb128> xhaker: the bug only trigger when you have 0 contacts in evolution, this code path is the fallback case there
<xhaker> ic, ok
<seb128> xhaker: also memory corruption leads to random crash, the access might lead to a crash or not depending
<seb128> I get this crasher every 15 tries or something on a stock amd64 install
<xhaker> seb128: you don't have any contacts in evo?
<seb128> I got the bug once and that was when playing with hardy candidate cds
<seb128> and I didn't run evolution yet on this test account
<seb128> I never got the issues on my desktop and laptop, that might explain why
<xhaker> indeed :)
<seb128> and I guess that explain why upstream didn't run into it
<seb128> all the evolution hackers are likely evolution users and have contacts configured ;-)
<lifesf> ï»¿Hi; was wondering if anyone could help me on this issue: i have problems with my graphics hardy fresh install; hp pavilion a1654n NVIDIA GeForce LE; monitor proview widescreen
<seb128> try #ubuntu
<lifesf> alright... Thanks
<ElMo2dab> heloo
<ElMo2dab> can i ask for some details here... other chats are busy... i just installed ubuntu like 2 hours ago and i dont know a lot of what i c
<seb128> you should better try #ubuntu
<ElMo2dab> how do i change the mount point of a partition
<seb128> or http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<ElMo2dab> oh thanks
<xtobbex> hi how can i remove the little arrow thar appers on a linked folder?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-29
<huats> morning everyone
<crevette> hello
<crevette> salut huats
<crevette> salut seb128
<crevette> ca va seb128 ? pas trop submergÃ© ?
<crevette> j'ai utilisÃ© f-spot hier et la trad est desastreuse
<crevette> j'ai pas regardÃ© d'ou elle venait mais je pense que ca vient de launchpad,
<crevette> j'essayerai de corriger ca ce soir parce que c'est pas top
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> crevette: y a pas mal de bugs mais ca va ;-)
<seb128> crevette: et tout de suite Ã  accuser launchpad, non ca vient d'upstream, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=529673
<crevette> pas les pb de string not traduites mais des traductions approximatives
<crevette> j'avoue que j'ai pas chercher
<seb128> crevette: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/epiphany-browser/+pots/epiphany/fr/+translate?batch=10&show=changed_in_launchpad
<crevette> ah
<seb128> crevette: 0 strings changÃ©es sur launchpad
<crevette> on peut voir ca
<seb128> oui
<crevette> c'est epiphany :)
<crevette> apareil pour f-spot
<crevette> bon ca craint encore pire
<seb128> crevette: erreur de copiÃ©, collÃ© ;-)
<seb128> ou de manip plutot
<crevette> desolÃ© d'avoir accusÃ© launchpad :)
<seb128> crevette: pourquoi ca crait plus, tu peux le corriger direct upstream non ? ;-)
<crevette> oui maintenant
<crevette> mais ca veut dire que ces trad ont sur pas mal de distro
<seb128> de toute faÃ§on vu que f-spot a une centaine de strings mÃªme pas translatable
<crevette> tu l''utilises pour gerer tes photos ?
<seb128> oui
<shan__> Could some one point me to documents on how to configure my broadcom 4306 wlan card on ubuntu 8.04?
<crevette> hello
<seb128> shan__: hi, that's not an user support chan, try #ubuntu
<shan__> ok thanks
<crevette> seb128, do you know who could I contact to have liberation fonts included in standard ubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> crevette: you can't.  they're in multiverse.
<seb128> hey Hobbsee ;-)
<Hobbsee> hey seb128!
<crevette> Hobbsee, hello
<crevette> Hobbsee, licencing issue ?
 * Hobbsee waves to crevette
<crevette> I thought it was solved
<Hobbsee> crevette: i presume so.  i've not looked carefully
<crevette> Hobbsee, I advice you to try them
<Hobbsee> crevette: i'm using them now.
<crevette> their shape are very nice and professional
<Hobbsee> crevette: they're in multiverse for hardy release.
<crevette> Hobbsee, ah
<crevette> :Ã )
<crevette> Hobbsee, yeah I know
<Hobbsee> so, i presume it's not solved.
<Hobbsee> but i really don't know
<Hobbsee> crevette: i'm finally even liking the bold fonts.
<crevette> about liberation ? yeah bold is nice, not too bold
<crevette> it is the best font we had
<crevette> have
<huats> o/ crevette
<Hobbsee> hmm.  now changed for irc.
<huats> hello Hobbsee too :)
<Hobbsee> huats: heya!
<crevette> Hobbsee, :)
<Hobbsee> man this looks weird.
<crevette> I use them everywhere
<seb128> hey pedro_
<pedro_> hello seb128
<seb128> pedro_: don't freak out about the number of bug watch updates, I talked to the launchpad guys some days ago because I had the impression it was not working correctly and they fixed it now ;-)
<pedro_> thanks god
<pedro_> haha
<pedro_> thanks for let me know I was just starting to
<seb128> so that was a catchup run
<seb128> and it should be normal again
<seb128> and I spend the morning triaging those changes, so I recommend that you mark just all read or something
<pedro_> everything makes sense now
<pedro_> thanks you!
<seb128> you are welcome ;-)
<proppy> Hi, I've got some wierd theming issue (with gtk)
<proppy> I can't manage to set some GtkTreeView background
<proppy> only in Ubuntu
<proppy> http://proppy.aminche.com/rhythmbox.png
<proppy> gtkrc here
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/m6043c76c
<proppy> what it should be: http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/tmp/rhythmbox.png
<proppy> could someone give it a try: by saving  http://pastebin.com/m6043c76c to gtk-debug file and call GTK2_RC_FILES=gtk-debug /usr/X11R6/bin/rhythmbox
<proppy> ?
<proppy> It sounds like a gtk ubuntu bug, what do you think ?
<seb128> no it doesn't
<seb128> ubuntu has no rhythmbox nor gtk change that could create a such issue
<proppy> I reproduced in an hardy fresh vm btw
<proppy> +it
<seb128> seems to be an upstream bug
<proppy> rhythmbox or gtk ?
<seb128> I'm not sure that rhythmbox is using a standard GtkTreeView
<proppy> because I reproduced the same issue with evolution
<seb128> they might have a custom widget
<seb128> ok, gtk then
<proppy> http://proppy.aminche.com/evolution.png
<seb128> or a theme one
<proppy> debian unstable, as not this issue, nor gentoo
<proppy> seb128: do you have the same issue on your computer ?
<seb128> (I hate when people use $random_distro_works_differently as an argument)
<seb128> you most likely don't have the same configuration on this distros
<seb128> don't use the same gtk theme engine or something
<seb128> I don't know, I've no clue what is right or wrong
<proppy> seb128: this is not an argument, I just try to figure out where should I report the bug, and the submit a patch
<seb128> rhythmbox seems to be displayed correctly for me
<seb128> where, bugzilla.gnome.org
<proppy> I'm not implying at all that it is a distro issue,
<proppy> I'm implying that knowing it work on another distro, could help to figureout which version of the upstream is faulty
<seb128> we have gtk in almost sync on debian and no rhythmbox distro specific change which could create that
<seb128> debian unstable and hardy have the same gtk
<proppy> I uploaded the gtkrc to http://proppy.aminche.com/gtkrc-debug
<proppy> for convenience
<proppy> One could test with: wget http://proppy.aminche.com/gtkrc-debug
<proppy> and GTK2_RC_FILES=gtkrc-debug /usr/X11R6/bin/rhythmbox
<proppy> Can you confirm me that the left treeview as a blue background ?
<seb128> it hasn't
<proppy> that's the bug :)
<seb128> nothing has a blue background, only the selection and the search entry
<proppy> oh
<seb128> and it works if I switch to the clearlooks theme
<proppy> you don't have a blue background on the down treeview
<seb128> everything is blue
<seb128> left sidebar included
<proppy> http://proppy.aminche.com/rhythmbox.png
<seb128> again, what theme are you using?
<proppy> seb128: how do you switch to clearlooks theme ?
<seb128> system, preferences, appearance
<seb128> I clicked on clearlooks
<proppy> I thought that overriding GTK2_RC_FILES was a way to force the theme by application
<seb128> a theme is not only a gtkrc
<proppy> seems that the pb is with "Human" theme
<proppy> in conjonction with this gtkrc
<seb128> right
<proppy> Human theme is in gnome-themes ?
<seb128> no
<proppy> gnome-ubuntu-themes ?
<seb128> gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks
<proppy> so it might be an engine bug
<seb128> could be, but your gtkrc specify to use the pixmap engine
<proppy> yep,
<proppy> let's try without
<proppy> same issue
<seb128> it's due to the Human gtkrc
<proppy> wonder how gtkrc are prioritized when you override GTK2_RC_FILES
<proppy> seems that the theme one is applied "after" and then override the GTK2_RC_FILES one
<seb128> not sure, maybe the human gtkrc has extra nuances and your doesn't define enough things
<proppy> then it is not really a bug
<seb128> right
<seb128> you can look to the Human gtkrc
<proppy> yep looking
<seb128> it has a note about evolution and some other deprecated widgets using wrong color for listviews
<proppy> and trying to comment lines
<seb128> try to comment those
<proppy> to figure out which declaration override mine
<proppy> commenting #class "GtkWidget"      style "clearlooks-default"
<proppy> made GtkTreeView blue
<proppy> it seems because of
<proppy> #	GtkTreeView::odd_row_color = "#F5F2ED"
<proppy> #	GtkTreeView::even_row_color = "#FAF9F7"
<seb128> it's easier a bug in gtk which doesn't use your definition over those, or your gtkrc which doesn't handle some cases where theme have extra definitions
<seb128> s/easier/either
<proppy> when I do provide these definition in my gtk-debug
<proppy> it works
<proppy>   GtkTreeView ::odd_row_color = "#00ff00"
<proppy>   GtkTreeView ::even_row_color = "#0000ff"
<proppy> so it's ain't a bug :)
<proppy> I just assumed wrongly that overriding bg/fg and base/text will override all theme color
<seb128> good ;-)
<proppy> seb128: thanks a lot for your help
<seb128> you are welcome
<proppy> seb128: I would not have been able to figure that out, without your guidance :)
<seb128> pedro_: why did you close bug #224198 as an user question?
<pedro_> seb128: works fine on two of my installations he's probably  doing something wrong
<seb128> pedro_: works fine for me too, but we are frustrating some users with abusing this stock reply I think (I tend to do it too), we should use the one asked for exact steps, etc saying it works correctly on other installations
<pedro_> seb128: ok, will do it next time
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<proppy> back to my evolution theming bug
<pedro_> you're welcome ;-)
<proppy> see you later
<proppy> thanks seb128
<chains_> I feel obligated to mention that the new elvish sorceress 10*4 is too powerful against undead.
<chains_> wrong window of course :)
<Nafallo> quite :-)
<seb128_> re
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-30
<dholbach> good morning
<crevette> hello
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> salut seb128
<dholbach> hey mvo
<dholbach> hi glatzor, hi siti
<mvo> hey dholbach!
<glatzor> mornign dholbach and mvo!
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<slomo_> *sigh* so hardy doesn't install recommends by default... giving quite a few bugs on banshee because it only supports ipods if a recommended package is installed
<slomo_> didn't hardy install recommends by default in the beginning?!
<mvo> no, never did
<mvo> only for meta-packages
<mvo> (recommends for ubuntu-desktop were installed for example)
<slomo_> ok, great ;)
<slomo_> calls for a SRU :P
<mvo> first upload to intrepid will enable recommends
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> right
<dholbach> seb128: 5-a-day is now translateable! :)
<seb128> dholbach: waouh!
<siti> dholbach: hi
<pochu> seb128_, lool, slomo_: any Python application you would like to see packaged? :)
<xhaker> gmorning all
<seb128_> hey xhaker
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: so, if on a dist-upgrade, a video card gets blacklisted against compiz, is that a bug or a feature?
<Amaranth> ah, you have an ati laptop
<Amaranth> well if you file a bug i'll dupe it to the one closed Won't Fix so...
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: so, what is my friend to do, who quite likes her effects, and doesn't want them gone?
<Amaranth> use fglrx or SKIP_CHECKS=yes in ~/.config/compiz/compiz-manager
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: where are the instructions for that for a user, not a dev?
<Amaranth> there are none because there is a reason we blocked it
<Amaranth> If you figure out enough to get to SKIP_CHECKS you know enough to know not to report bugs, I hope.
<Hobbsee> so which fglrx does she need to use, and why wasn't it installed with the dist-upgrade?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: ^
<Amaranth> 1) fglrx only works with r300 and newer (so 9200 and older are out) and 2) it is just as likely to break suspend as fix compiz
<Amaranth> Yes, this is technically a regression from 7.10 but I'd rather have people complain about losing their effects then complain about not-so-random lockups that cause dataloss
<Amaranth> Seeing how this is an LTS and lots of people will not be upgrading when 8.10 comes out and fixes the problem
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: was this release noted anywhere?
<Amaranth> Probably not
<Hobbsee> Why not?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: it definetly doesn't look release noted.
<Amaranth> Because I didn't think losing special effects was worse it, I guess
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  how many user questions have there been about no more effects, and how to get them back, i wonder...
<Hobbsee> anyway, will tell the friend
<Amaranth> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/drm/log/?h=r345-cleanup <--the work we need to get these cards enabled again
<Amaranth> too bad that didn't happen a month ago :/
<shashi>  I am using Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit version, if i install any 32-bit applications like browsers, datbase clients ...etc. The 32-bit based applications not able to reach /etc/resolv.conf file to communicate to the network. Any one tell me how to resolve this issue ?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: right.  SRU'able, or?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Up to bryce
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: *nod*
<Amaranth> and may not fix our issues, he was having people try out some patches before
<Amaranth> and i think those are the patches
<Hobbsee> shashi: see what i said to you in #ubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: ahhh
<Hobbsee> bug 8896
<Hobbsee> bah
<Amaranth> bug 8896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 8896 in synaptic "Enable auto-install of packages in recommends field by default, like in aptitude" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8896
<Amaranth> :)
<mvo> Amaranth: *cough* intrepid
<Amaranth> eh?
<Amaranth> Oh, you mean don't call it 8.10?
<Amaranth> If we miss the release date I'll go back and rename it :)
<Amaranth> hardy sounded cool, intrepid just doesn't have the same feeling
<mvo> any anyone think of a reason why gtk.events_pending() might hang?
<mvo> seb128: can you think of any reason why "while (gtk_events_pending()) gtk_main_iteration();" might hang? in python-gtk, but I don't think that this matters
<seb128> mvo: no
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-01
<spikebike> I have the dreaded gutsy upgrade nvidia machine to hardy
<spikebike> GLX no workie 8-(
<spikebike> Failed to initialize the GLX module
<spikebike> oops this looks like the wrong channel
<MacSlow> hm... epiphany does not load any page (local or remote) anymore... firefox has no problems on the otherhand
<mariusss> ted1: ï»¿In your vision, when do you think the Ubuntu desktop will be like the current Mac OS X one?
<ted1> Heh, I don't think it will be like the current OS X one.
<SgtMuffins> ted1: are you using ubuntu 8.04 right now?
<mariusss> why not?
<ted1> But I hope that we get as polished before the next LTS.
<mariusss> yes
<ted1> SgtMuffins: yes.
<mariusss> but I have AWN and other goodies
<ted1> I guess it simply comes down to that we should be an OS X clone, we should take good ideas.  Not all of those come from Apple.
<ted1> I love a lot of things Apple does, but hate others.
<mariusss> for example I have a ripple effect for Pidgin, when someone sends me a message.... this feature is not available in OS X
<mariusss> AWN is a good idea :D
<mariusss> why not invest more time in the development of it, instead of trying to repair or fix the current GNOME Panel's bugs
<mariusss> and we are also talking here about a good looking OS ;) Because, right now... GNOME looks more like a Win 2000... not even XP :(
<mariusss> do you agree?
<ted1> Well, with the current release cycle, we didn't want to do things that were drastic.  So we were definitely sticking with GNOME Panel.
<ted1> But, it think that moving away from it is on the table at UDS.
<mariusss> I see
<ted1> But, I want to say that we're not focused on "Use program X" we're focused on "this is what we want to build, how can we get there."
<mariusss> I understand
<ted1> And if the GNOME panel is going the same route, it might be easier for us to ride that horse, as it is likely to always be more integrated with GNOME upstream.
<ted1> I'm not saying it is or isn't, but we haven't decided on the user experience yet, so it's hard to say.
<ted1> I would say in general I consider the Ubuntu Desktop already more consistent and usable than Windows, and I think our goals are to conquer OS X.
<Nafallo> ted1: +1
<SgtMuffins> agreed
<mariusss> ok, in my vision... where I want Ubuntu to be is: a dock without the upper panel (like in OS X) with the basic stuff and utilities...
<ted1> The problem with that is that dock doesn't scale.  If you have a hundred applications you use regularly, how does that work?
<mariusss> A dock means a lot, it is very powerful... for example: you know where an application icon is located all the time....
<ted1> Also, I think in general people are more document focused than application focused.
<ted1> Well, applications don't move in the menus :)
<mariusss> not the menus :)
<mariusss> the panel
<ted1> The question comes down to, how can we make what people do most of the time easy to do.
<mariusss> exactly
<mariusss> :)
<ted1> And I think the dock does that for a case where you only have a few applications you use, but it doesn't scale to having large amounts of documents and applications.
<ted1> Apple tried with stacks, but I think that's just silly.
<mariusss> I don't know.... but I told you, I am using a dock for some time now, both at work and home (with Ubuntu 8.04 on them) and there is NO WAY I am going back to the old GNOME panel... it can't offer the easiness and the power of a dock :)
<oblique63_> thats one opinion...
<ted1> I think in general, the menus don't work for commonly used applications.  I think we can agree on that.
<oblique63_> I mean, I use the dock a lot too, but even I have to admit its mostly because it just looks nicer, not really anything to do with usability
<mariusss> another example would be the one when someone accidentally opens two or more instances of an application (image Firefox, who eats a lot of ram)... what happens then? I will tell you because I know.... the system barely moves...  Well, this will not happen with a dock :D
<ted1> I don't know that the answer is a dock-like thing.
<ted1> mariusss: That's an application thing, it doesn't mater what the application viewing UI is.
<ted1> mariusss: On OSX I can get multiple of the same icon on the dock easily enough.
<mariusss> stacks sucks!
<mariusss> :)
<oblique63_> at least they 'look' cool
<mariusss> AWN with about 50 icons -> http://img63378.pictiger.com/images/15108977/z/ :)
<oblique63_> lol
<oblique63_> yeah, thats totally usable....
<mariusss> :))
<mariusss> GNOME Panel with the same icons -> http://img63378.pictiger.com/images/15109057/z/ :)
<mariusss> I still think the dock is more usable :)
<mariusss> ted1: thank you for answering my questions!
<ted1> mariusss: You should turn on grouping when space is limited.
<ted1> mariusss: No problem!
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-02
<zarsdex> hello people
<HitMan> I have a VDS. If I install Ubutu-Desktop, and many people connect to it via Nomachine NX or something using their accounts. Will they all see the same desktop or different ones?
<mpt> apt:foo-bar
<mpt_> apt:bar-foo
<mpt_> http://example.com
<ember_> pochu thanks for that good feedback
<pochu> ember: you deserve it!
<ember> heh, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-03
<p1ayerone> can anyone help me?
<Hobbsee> no
<p1ayerone> why are you here?
<Hobbsee> ...no, because your skill at asking useful questions seems to be nil.
<crevette> ubuntu-desktop should be renamed ubuntu-desktop-dev
<Hobbsee> ...why?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: because people always think there is the channel for help with desktop-like questions
<Amaranth> s/there/this/
 * Amaranth wakes up more
 * awalton__ passes Amaranth some coffee.
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-04
<Ton1> hello there
<Ton1> I need some help, could anybody help me?
<shiyee> Ton1: try in #ubuntu (as the topic says)
<Ton1> shiyee: there are so many people ^
<Ton1> ...okay
<Kargarian> hello
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-27
<asac> hi
<didrocks> hi o/
<seb128> hello asac didrocks
<asac> moin seb128 and didrocks
<didrocks> hello seb128 & asac ;)
 * asac receives a ridiculous amount of mail over weekend
<seb128> asac: welcome to the club
<asac> seb128: hehe ... wel, usually i read mail on weekend, so i dont notice how bad it is
<seb128> I've been reading my emails 3 times a day to not crack under backlog today
<seb128> it's usually not that amonth
<seb128> I usually get 300 emails or so
<asac> hmm. i just wanted to hvae 2 days off ;)
<seb128> I got 878 this weekend
<seb128> asac: you are right you deserve to relax during weekends ;-)
<asac> with bugmail?
<seb128> the 878?
<seb128> it's desktop components I'm interested in, it not everything in ubuntu-desktop but just things I work on
<asac> ;)
 * pitti hugs asac, seb128, and didrocks
<seb128> basically most of GNOME, but not the things other people are supposed to work, ie gnome-screensaver, etc
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * asac hugs pitti back
<pitti> yeah, I relaxed during the weekend, but this morning's email surge is horrible
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<seb128> going to love users
<seb128> didrocks: did you have a jaunty party? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: just a jaunty release party :-) Will publish some photo as soon as I got them
<didrocks> the Ubuntu Party (larger public) will be the 16-17 may
<seb128> ok
<seb128> was the jaunty one good?
<didrocks> yes, 30 people in a "flams", very enjoyable :)
<didrocks> seb128: and you, no party ? ;)
<seb128> no, sleep and relaxing ;-)
<didrocks> that's good too ^^
<seb128> didrocks: good comments on the jaunty milestone? ;-)
<didrocks> if you are around Paris during the ubuntu party, do not hesitate to come
<didrocks> seb128: I think that people were more trying to download it than already having it :)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> from what I know, in forums, everything's  better than for previous release
<didrocks> that's a good point \o/
<seb128> 16-17 mays, I will be in Spain
<seb128> hum no, that's just before in fact
<didrocks> ok, thought that canonical guys were leaving just one week before
<didrocks> yes
<seb128> but too near to travel to Paris and back just before flying
<didrocks> sure ^^
<didrocks> next time :)
<didrocks> seb128: I don't know what do you thing, but this one can be a good SRU candidate (bug #361053)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361053 in gnome-terminal "Please, sponsor gnome-terminal 2.26.1 to jaunty" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361053
<didrocks> think*
<seb128> mvo: ^ could you have a look? ;-)
<seb128> I already sponsored some SRU and did a bunch of those, I want to try catching up on bug emails today now
<seb128> didrocks: I will have a look later if nobody else does
<didrocks> seb128: ok, will ping you if it's the case
<mvo> sure
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey!
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell: how are you?
<pitti> robert_ancell: good evening
<robert_ancell> seb128: I feel like I got punched in the nose :)  Hey pitti
<seb128> robert_ancell: found things to do today? we have some bug flood after jaunty so you can probably spend the week helping on bug triage ;-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: but you are alive!!
<seb128> robert_ancell: ah ah
<seb128> robert_ancell: users are great aren't they? ;-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: I had a nose operation three years ago, I still painfully remember it
<robert_ancell> seb128: no it was a doctor that did it to me!  And I paid for it!
<seb128> oh?
<robert_ancell> pitti: I think I am past the worst now so should all be good from now on...
<robert_ancell> seb128: got my nose straightened to help with breathing
 * seb128 is happy that nobody is touching his nose
<pitti> robert_ancell: hah, I had pretty much the same
<seb128> robert_ancell: ah ok
<robert_ancell> seb128: get your nose insured :)
<seb128> lol
<robert_ancell> I've been triaging all day... the flood doesn't seem too bad yet
<seb128> robert_ancell: you are probably not subscribed to enough components! ;-)
<seb128> I expect compiz has quite some bugs though and half of those are probably driver issues
<robert_ancell> seb128: it was more it just seemed about the normal amount of bugs - i.e. too many!!
<seb128> right
<seb128> oh oh
<seb128> pitti: all the retracer just crashed, should I look to it?
<seb128> "    from launchpadlib.errors import HTTPError
<seb128> ImportError: No module named launchpadlib.errors"
<seb128> what the?
<seb128> I hate the new way of packaging python in debian and ubuntu
<seb128> it's just no un-reliable
<pitti> aww
<pitti> seb128: I'll have a look
<pitti> seb128: I just did a pull in the launchpadlib branch, I guess that broke it somehow
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<pitti> seb128: currently working on the script to set up the retracers (since we need one on armel, etc., and I like to have it working anyway)
<seb128> pitti: ok
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning! had a nice weekend?
<chrisccoulson> not too bad thanks - i slept a lot like most weekends :)
<chrisccoulson>  i've finished the tracker update now - i dropped the evolution plugin, as I can't make it work anyway
<chrisccoulson> someone else tested the evolution plugin, and they couldn't make it work either
<seb128> robert_ancell: could you have a look to bug #343707 tomorrow?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343707 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox tries to find a codec for a m3u/html file" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343707
<chrisccoulson> heh. that bug is really annoying
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks, I saw the merge request; will upload ASAP
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks:)
<chrisccoulson> i'll have to do some more investigation on the evo plugin, but i'll have to ask upstream for some help with that
<robert_ancell> seb128: no prob,  it sounds similar to bug 181553 which I fixed today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 181553 in totem-pl-parser "Playlists do not handle \r or mixed newline formats" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181553
<seb128> robert_ancell: good that you fixed this one, I think they are different issues though
<seb128> robert_ancell: the other one could be gstreamer typefinding detecting a wrong mimetype rather or something
<seb128> robert_ancell: it's supposed to ignore non multimedia formats quietly
<robert_ancell> seb128: reading more you're probably right.  The bug I fixed had a symptom where it was treating a playlist as a music file
<pitti> seb128: ronne retracers should be fixed now
<seb128> pitti: good job!
<seb128> robert_ancell: interesting that you edit apport crash bug titles to remove the function name
<seb128> I found that handy to find duplicates usually
<seb128> robert_ancell: the desktop bug triagers usually use "fix commited" for bugs fixed upstream too
<seb128> it's not ideal but it makes easier to know what to close in the next upload
<seb128> by just looking at the bugs list
<robert_ancell> seb128: yeah, it's a bit of trade off that one.  I was considering having them following the description.  I've found it easier to get a overview of the bugs if the reports have descriptions of the causes of the bugs
<seb128> right, you have a point, and ideally apport should auto-dup similar stacktraces anyway
<seb128> I'm pondering if we should keep the function in () after the title though
<robert_ancell> seb128: and often it can be misleading to mark purely based on stack trace - sometimes i've seen bug reports in gnome-games/gcalctool linked based on similar traces but aren't the same cause
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> seb128: I agree, I'll update them in future
<seb128> thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128: regarding the "fix committed" - I wanted to do that but hadn't because of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status - but I will definitely do that now because it has been annoying me too
<seb128> right, different people have different workflow
<seb128> we use fix commited in a consistant way for desktop though
<seb128> the rational being that GNOME rolls tarball often enough
<seb128> so it's somewhat going to land soon in ubuntu when fixed upstream anyway ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: thanks,  still getting the hang of the workflow here :)
<seb128> and it makes easier to know what bugs to close or patches to backport
<seb128> you're weclome!
<seb128> welcome
<robert_ancell> seb128: that leads onto another question I wanted to ask - there's a number of upstream released I want to push (glade, gcalctool etc) that fix small bugs.  Is it worth pushing these for Jaunty?
<robert_ancell> (I still don't quite get the post CD press process)
<seb128> is there any bug fix there worth having in stable?
<robert_ancell> seb128: well something like glade is really handy as it fixes some annoying bugs and I'd expect programmers to want the latest stable version.  Or do we expect users to get this from a PPA?
<seb128> it's always a balance work benefit
<seb128> hey bratsche
<seb128> robert_ancell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<seb128> robert_ancell: those are the stable uploads already uploaded
<seb128> robert_ancell: you know the sru procedure?
<robert_ancell> seb128: no
<robert_ancell> (other than it appears to be practically impossible to push something into stable when you're not in Ubuntu as when I tried back a year or so)
<seb128> robert_ancell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<seb128> robert_ancell: read that
<seb128> robert_ancell: basically the update need to be bug fixes change only and worth the work
<seb128> robert_ancell: ie a translation updates version is not worth the stable update work
<seb128> (especially than translators can upload translations on rosetta without source upload)
<seb128> the gcalctool changelog has 1 line
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, I did read that the other year.  So reading it says in the case of the apps I am talking about a backport is more appropriate?
<seb128> not sure if the bug is an annoyance for users or just a small thing, if you think that's annoying enough you can do a sru
<seb128> since GNOME has freezes etc for stable series no
<seb128> we usually do GNOME stable updates
<seb128> when the changes are worth an update
<seb128> I think for glade it makes sense
<robert_ancell> glade is a better example - there are a few cases where you can generate ui files that can't be loaded.  It's a bit confusing so it would be really nice for the users.  The work seems small from my end.
<seb128> right, for glade it makes sense
<seb128> the gcalctool one I'm not sure
<seb128> it's only one change ... is that a confusing thing for many users?
<seb128> we are still early after jaunty and karmic is not open yet
<seb128> so it's still a good time to do some stable bug fixing
<seb128> so it's still a good time to do some stable bug fixing
<robert_ancell> There's another bug that I'll fix soon and I'm thinking ahead, i.e. when gcalctool 5.26.3 is released there will probably be a number of useful fixes and by that time I'd consider it useful to update
<seb128> ok, so maybe wait for this update
<seb128> and do the glade one meanwhile
<robert_ancell> OK, I will do that tomorrow
<seb128> that will do a sru exercice too ;-)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so this rhythmbox bug, glade to sru and bug triage
<seb128> you already have a busy day scheduled ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: will do.  it's good to have some variety for the day!
<seb128> indeed
 * seb128 still fighting the bugmail backlog
<seb128> we will need an e-d-s sru
<pitti> gosh, I haven't even started with that yet :(
<seb128> once people will have managed to tell us where e-d-s is crashing
<seb128> we are getting a lot of evolution calendar hangs
<pitti> hey sabdfl
<sabdfl> pitti!
<sabdfl> how was your release weekend?
<seb128> hello sabdfl
<sabdfl> hey seb
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti:  clocking off now, see you guys tomorrow
<seb128> robert_ancell: enjoy your evening, see you tomorrow
<pitti> robert_ancell: sleep well, and all the best for your nose!
<robert_ancell> :O)
<pitti> sabdfl: pretty quiet, enjoyed the sun, some bicycling, and theater :)
<sabdfl> what did you see?
<pitti> "What the Butler Saw"
<pitti> brilliant English comedy
<pitti> and back then, in 1969, probably quite a scandalous one, too
<pitti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Butler_Saw_(play)
<pitti> sabdfl: how about you, rocked the office with the release party? :-)
<sabdfl> it was great
<sabdfl> and i could speak afterwards, because there was no karaoke :-)
<sabdfl> and nobody had to bring cotton wool
<sabdfl> all in all, a success
<pitti> sounds great!
<pitti> seb128: hah, the good thing about karmic not being open yet is that SRU verification results come in very fast \o/
<seb128> pitti: ;-)
 * pitti currently processes the 150-odd SRU bug mails
<mvo> yeah, the sru-verification team is rocking
<seb128> pitti: speaking about that do you know when karmic will open?
<pitti> seb128: when the toolchain bits are in, currently in progress
<mnemo> is it possible to run apport-collect from an ssh shell when xorg is borked?
<seb128> mvo, pitti: could one of you look at the brasero update waiting for sponsoring too? there is quite some users having nautilus crashing due to it right now
<pitti> not right now, but I'll have a look at the sponsoring queue later then
<mvo> seb128: can do
<pitti> mnemo: apport-collect doesn't need X
 * pitti hugs mvo
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<mvo> np
<mvo> pitti: if the update-manager -proposed version could go into -updates, that would rock (verification status looks pretty good AFAICS)
<pitti> mvo: I'm very eager to get it in (currently trawling through the sru bug mail)
<pitti> mvo: you got some good responses and perhaps also did an auto-tester run with this?
<mvo> pitti: I got multiple auto-test rusns (attached to the individual reports)
<pitti> great
<mvo> thanks, I don't want to interrupt your trawling :)
<pitti> mvo: no problem, please do :)
<pitti> I'm in SRU mode/mood anyway
<pitti> mvo: congratulations for for the first package in jaunty-updates
<pitti> mvo: shall I also copy it to karmic, or do you have the chagnes/bug closings in your karmic tree as well?
<mpt> asac, hi, I have a question about wired networks
<mpt> asac, in what circumstances is it useful to know the name of a wired network?
<mpt> For example, when I plug the PC next to me into Ethernet I get a bubble with title "Auto eth0", which is quite ugly
<mpt> What would we lose by just saying "Wired network" instead?
<Nafallo> mpt: so how do I know if I'm using my Canonical Data Centre statical configuration, my statical configuration for Home, or actually got an automatic DHCP?
<mpt> Nafallo, I don't know. What's a "statical configuration"?
<Nafallo> mpt: when you don't get an IP assigned by a central server by rather set it yourself in the preferences.
<mpt> ah
<mpt> Nafallo, and what are the titles shown in the notification bubbles for each of those at the moment?
<Nafallo> mpt: I would have to disconnect to check...
<Nafallo> mpt: Bold text, name of the connection. underneath, non bold, "Connection established"
<mpt> Nafallo, I understand that, I'm just wondering what the actual names are
<Nafallo> mpt: so what you see as Auto eth0 could be Home or Canonical DCs or whatever...
<mpt> Nafallo, are they what's shown in "Edit Connections..." > "Wired" > "Edit" > "Connection name:"?
<Nafallo> yeah.
<Nafallo> same with any name for any type of connection.
<mpt> so were your names set manually or automatically?
<Nafallo> which is how it should be IMO
<Nafallo> manually for the static configs
<Nafallo> you can change whatever connection to have a different name though...
<Nafallo> so the "fix" for this issue would be to get Network Manager to have sane defaults I would say :-)
<mpt> Ah, so a better name than "Auto eth0"?
<Nafallo> yeah
<Nafallo> if that is your issue :-)
<Nafallo> also, the defaults for wireless is Auto $SSID
<Nafallo> I can't see why it isn't just $SSID personally
<proppy> mpt: if you've got 2 eth, it can be usefull to know which one is plugged
<mpt> good point
<proppy> (while, I agree that many desktop don't have 2xeth these days)
<mpt> So maybe the first should be called "Ethernet", the second "Ethernet 2", the third "Ethernet 3", and so on
<Nafallo> and nuke "Auto " from everything? :-)
<Nafallo> (for new connections of course, don't want to touch existing configs)
<mpt> maybe
<mpt> Let's see what asac thinks
<asac> mpt: names for connections make sense when you hvae multiple connections defined
<asac> mpt: in the case of auto connections i would think that just stating "Auto Wired Connection" might make more sense.
<asac> mpt: dropping the eth0 works well when you have only one NIC
<asac> which is on laptops, but most desktops have two NICs i think
<asac> so we could look into making the name logic consider whether there is more than one NIC and whether there are other wired connections defined and dropping parts of the name accordingly.
<seb128> asac: the issue is that "eth" is a technical thing not a word users understand
<asac> seb128: yes, i see that. i have to think a bit about it
<asac> we could try to enumerate wired devices somehow and refer to the auto connections as "Wired Connection 1,2,.."
<Nafallo> asac: is "Auto " actually necessary you reckon? :-)
<asac> personally i wonder whether network management shouldnt look at this at the connection perspective at all; rather the user should manage his networking based on locations ... which would allow us to give the auto connection a name that refers to location used.
<asac> Nafallo: not sure.
<Nafallo> asac: I've got LOTS of Auto $SSID by now...
<asac> Nafallo: question is if users are more likely to go and look for "manual" ways to configure connections if they see the "Auto" prefix
<seb128> what does "auto" mean?
<Nafallo> seb128: either it is DHCP or it is "Automagically created faff"
<asac> auto means: all magic ;) ... encryption mode, IPs, et all
<Nafallo> I've never actually understood which
<proppy> I don't get Auto for network I created by hand
<Nafallo> proppy: that's because you set the name by hand? ;-)
<asac> yeah. you have to choose the name for those explicitly
<proppy> Nafallo: yep, I remember setting the name by hand because of an hidden SSID
<seb128> couldn't you display ".... automatically configured"?
<seb128> where ... is the name
<Nafallo> so yeah. I don't think "Auto " makes sense just because I choose an AP to connect to in the list :-)
<Nafallo> seb128: why would you need to tell them at all? if they need to set up a static connection they will figure it out anyway :-)
<asac> Nafallo: for APs the auto might make less sense than for wired
<Nafallo> asac: as in "no sense" :-)
<Nafallo> but yeah.
<asac> Nafallo: but that name doesnt show up in menu usually
<Nafallo> asac: really?
<asac> while the wired name shows up in its full length
<asac> Nafallo: do you see any Auto in the menu for wireless?
<asac> i would think you just see that in the editor
<Nafallo> asac: ah. you meant like that.
<Nafallo> asac: no, but then the only wired I see are set in the connection dialog :-P
<Nafallo> asac: so changing the default name for wired wouldn't necessarily show "Auto eth0" either :-)
<Nafallo> INCONSISTENCY!!!
<Nafallo> :-P
<asac> Nafallo: well. you only see the connections if there is a link on the wired device
<asac> so plug your thing into something that has power ;)
<Nafallo> that made no sense to me. what do you mean?
<Nafallo> I'm on wire at the moment.
 * mpt looks up what a "NIC" is
<asac> mpt: device
<asac> network
<mpt> ah, network interface controller
<mvo> pitti: wooohh! thanks - I have the changes in my karmic tree, once it oppens, I will uplaod that
<pitti> mvo: ok, I won't bother then; please upload the next wave of u-m to -proposed then
<asac> Nafallo: not sure what you mean then
<mpt> asac, are there any prefixes used other than "eth"? If so, what are they?
 * mpt finds http://www.netstumbler.org/f55/whats-difference-between-eth0-wlan0-wifi0-ath0-etc-18696/
<asac> mpt: thats a theoretically infinite set of names
<Nafallo> asac: if you look in the connection editor, you have lots of wireless Auto $SSID. those show up in the menu as $SSID
<Nafallo> asac: when you connect to wired you get the same names as in the connection editor. ie. "Auto eth0"
<Nafallo> asac: that's inconsistent. I can see why it happens, but it's still fail :-P
<Nafallo> mpt: they can have whatever name actually :-)
<asac> mpt: its just a label for a NIC ... in the past it was used to identify certain network devices
<Nafallo> mpt: but that requires manual intervention, so I don't think we should care :-)
<asac> for example in /etc/network/interfaces
<asac> mpt: the right way as i said above would be to enumerate devices and talk about them just as "Wired Device X"
<Nafallo> Wired Interface X :-)
<mpt> This MacBook has "Auto eth2" and no other wireless connections
<asac> yes. thats possible
<asac> you cannot use that number to enumerate
<mpt> er, no other wired connections I mean
<asac> so how about this idea:
<asac> instead of "Auto cryptic0" ... there should be a menu entry "Auto connect(ed)"
<asac> would that make more sense?
<asac> thats for wired ... for wireless APs would show up in the same way as they do now
 * asac isnt completely happy with "Auto connect" either
<asac> mpt: so what do you think about the idea from above: move user perspective of network management away from low level stuff like "devices" and "connections" to more a high level location based POV (home, work, travel ...)
<asac> i get the feeling that you cannot really design a UI that looks at devices/connections in a way a non-technical user will understand easily
<mpt> asac, location handling is a whole separate issue, and there's a bunch of interesting utilities that do things like change brightness level and default printer and so on as well as network
<mpt> I'd rather just get the names fixed for now
<asac> mpt: sure its a different issue. but having location handling tight to networking makes a lot of sense. you could auto detect most locations through networking. so worth discussing/speccing imo
<asac> mpt: you have a list of utilities that change networking based on location?
<mpt> asac, http://www.symonds.id.au/marcopolo/ is one that includes a comparison with others (all Mac OS X)
<mpt> Windows equivalents include <http://www.netsetman.com/index.php?s=nsm> and <http://milnersolutions.com/netprofiles/>
<bratsche_> Hi seb128
<asac> mpt: thx
<vuntz> heh
 * vuntz looks at the ubuntu gconf patches and sees 05_from_vuntz_gconf2-pk-default-path.patch
<vuntz> seb128: yo?
<seb128> lut vuntz
<seb128> vuntz: what about it?
<vuntz> seb128: wondering how you make all packages install their .schemas files in /usr/share/gconf/schemas.
<seb128> vuntz: we have a dh_gconf which does that
<vuntz> seb128: does it set the GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR env var before configure?
<seb128> configuration is a different question than where the schemas is stored
<seb128> no it doesn't
<seb128> what does GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR do?
<vuntz> it's just a way to specify where to put the .schemas files on install
<vuntz> make install, I mean
<seb128> ah no
<seb128> dh_gconf just do a mv
<vuntz> heh
<vuntz> you're cheating
<seb128> 		doit("mkdir -p $new_schemas_dir") unless -d $new_schemas_dir;
<seb128> 		doit("mv $old_schemas_dir/*.schemas $new_schemas_dir/");
<seb128> 		doit("rmdir -p --ignore-fail-on-non-empty $old_schemas_dir");
<vuntz> ok
<seb128> looking to do a similar change upstream or for opensuse?
<vuntz> opensuse, at least
<vuntz> upstream would be better, but this might break distros, I guess
<seb128> how break?
<vuntz> seb128: well, I don't know. This could have interesting side-effects
<seb128> add a configure option to gconf to specify the default location
<seb128> and let distro use it?
<vuntz> you first need to make sure all your packages have the files in the same directory
<vuntz> I'm pretty sure it'd break some stuff on openSUSE, eg
<seb128> why?
<seb128> we had schemas in etc and usr for a while
<seb128> it didn't break anything
<didrocks> seb128: adding an autotool option to gconf seems interesting (o/ vuntz)
<vuntz> we do some magic stuff when upgrading a package with gconf schemas
<seb128> each package knows where it install its schemas
<seb128> which ones?
<vuntz> so we don't have to call gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule/uninstall if it's not necessary
<seb128> I would be interested to know why ;-)
<seb128> why? to spare some cpu cycles?
<vuntz> yep
<vuntz> it was pretty expensive at some point
<seb128> I would not think it's that much ressource intensive
<vuntz> well. Do you do that once per package or once per apt transaction?
<seb128> once by package
<seb128> but only for the package schemas
<vuntz> pretty sure it's andreasn_'s fault
<andreasn_> hm, what's up now?
<andreasn_> whatever it is, I think it's your fault
<didrocks> ^^
<seb128> vuntz: being clever on whether schemas need reinstalling would probably take as much cpu as installing no?
<seb128> vuntz: ie you need to compare all the key values and translations to make sure there is nothing worth updating
<vuntz> andreasn_: come on. Admit it. You did it.
<vuntz> seb128: cmp?
<seb128> vuntz: and in 95% of the cases you have translations changes at least so you install the update
<vuntz> right
<vuntz> it's just that we have more updates for the same version in openSUSE than in Ubuntu
<seb128> lol
<vuntz> (because we rebuild packages all the time)
<seb128> it's your rebuilding everything all the time?
<seb128> right
<didrocks> seb128: schema translation are embeeded in the binary package, not external?
<vuntz> so different needs :-)
<seb128> didrocks: there is no binary?
<seb128> didrocks: the schemas translations are the .mo files
<seb128> didrocks: upstream writes localized xml and we do patch to use gettext instead
<didrocks> seb128: and those .mo files are "injected" in the package during soyuz build?
 * didrocks can't get the big picture for how ubuntu handles localisation :) (just hope with tdeb that it will be easier :))
<seb128> didrocks: what is tdeb?
<seb128> didrocks: po files are imported on upload
<mvo_> *cough* when I last looked at tdebs (a while ago) it was one tdeb per package per  language
<didrocks> seb128: tdeb = translation deb. It's a new format for localisation on debian system. (http://people.debian.org/~codehelp/tdeb/)
<didrocks> mvo_: it's still the case with the latest specification
<seb128> didrocks: and export in language packs
<mclasen> seb128: your patch to extract schema translations is a bit broken, btw
<mvo_> that is quite a big number of additional packages then
<seb128> didrocks: dpkg -L language-pack-gnome-fr-base
<didrocks> seb128: so, every translation for every gconf key are in this language pack?
<didrocks> mvo_: for sure
<seb128> didrocks: yes, they are in the upstream mo too
<seb128> mclasen: in what way?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks :)
<mclasen> seb128: intltool munges the whitespace when extracting
<mclasen> so for long descriptions, what you get from gconf doesn't match the msgid in the .mo
<mclasen> also, you don't call bind_textdomain_codeset, so you may see some breakage depending on the locale...
<seb128> ok, thanks for letting us know
<mclasen> I've posted a working patch to gconf-list earlier today
<seb128> pitti: ^ do you know about those issues?
<vuntz> mclasen: do you know if installing .schemas files in /usr/share/gconf/schemas instead of /etc/gconf/schemas could break something on fedora?
<vuntz> (changing the default)
<mclasen> vuntz: it would break all the opencoded schema installation/deinstallation code, of course...
<mclasen> since we don't have your %gconf macros yet
<mclasen> so it would be a ton of busy work for little gain
<vuntz> so yeah, wouldn't be fun for you
<mclasen> which is why we  refrained from doing that so far
<seb128> vuntz: easier way is the configure option
<seb128> for gconf to change the default directory
<seb128> so distros who want change just set that
<vuntz> seb128: well, this needs some change, since right now, this is hard-coded in gconf-2.m4, which ends up in aclocal.m4 of all tarballs...
<seb128> vuntz: ok, I see, lot of trouble for little benefit, let's wait for dconf rather ;-
<seb128> ;-)
<vuntz> but I guess we can do something similar to gconftool-2 --get-default-source in the m4, if we really want
<didrocks> vuntz: hum, gconftool-2 --get-default-source gives me /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults in my jaunty
<seb128> didrocks: directory where are installed the schemas != directory where the keys are written
<seb128> didrocks: the schemas is a source which is parsed to write the values in the gconf database
<seb128> ie the schemas are the source and the directory is where the keys are written
<didrocks> seb128: I understand as schemas are just used once... that's why I told vuntz that this command wouldn't help us in a the gconf m4 file
<seb128> he said similar
<vuntz> didrocks: this is why I said "similar to" ;-)
<didrocks> ok, didn't get it, sorry ;-)
<Ampelbein> ping pedro_: about bug 366723, the original upstream-version does not have a properties or delete button, it's a change we introduced in ubuntu. could you please close the upstream report about this? Also, I attached a debdiff which corrects the issue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366723 in alacarte "the properties button does nothing on categories" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366723
<pitti> seb128: yes, I do, I saw the recent bug mail for that
<seb128> pitti: ok
<pitti> seb128: I'll apply the updates soon
<pedro_> Ampelbein: alright, already closed, thanks for pinging
<hggdh> seb128, ping and hello. Would you consider an update for evolution-exchange for bug 353187?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353187 in evolution-exchange "evolution-exchange-storage: /build/buildd/libical-0.43/src/libical/icalerror.c:106: icalerror_set_errno: Assertion `0' failed." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353187
<seb128> hey hggdh
<seb128> hggdh: yes, we can sru evolution crashers
<seb128> hggdh: do you want to work on the sru?
<hggdh> seb128, OK, I will prepare a debdiff for it
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> good night everyone!
<Nafallo> gnight pitti
<hggdh> seb128, I should target jaunty-proposed on my update to e-e, correct?
<seb128> hggdh: yes
<seb128> 'night pitti
<hggdh> seb128, done. debdiff is in bug 353187, nominated for Jaunty, ubuntu-sru subscribed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353187 in evolution-exchange "evolution-exchange-storage: /build/buildd/libical-0.43/src/libical/icalerror.c:106: icalerror_set_errno: Assertion `0' failed." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353187
<seb128> hggdh: thanks, I will sponsor that today after diner
<seb128> but bbl for now dinner time ;-)
<hggdh> seb128, bon appetit
<seb128> hggdh: merci
<seb128> bbl
 * kenvandine_wk runs for a late lunch
<dobey> vuntz: care to try my intltool branch that should fix your bug?
<vuntz> dobey: sure, tell me how :-)
<dobey> vuntz: bzr branch lp:~dobey/intltoolize-version-magic
<vuntz> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~dobey/intltoolize-version-magic": No such project: intltoolize-version-magic
<dobey> err
<dobey> vuntz: bzr branch lp:~dobey/intltool/intltoolize-version-magic
<dobey> sorry
<vuntz> ah, should have guessed that
<vuntz> hrm
<vuntz> I guess my bzr version isn't recent enough :/
<vuntz> bzr: ERROR: Unknown repository format: 'Bazaar RepositoryFormatKnitPack6 (bzr 1.9)\n'
<dobey> oh
<dobey> what version of bzr do you have?
<vuntz> indeed, I have 1.8
<dobey> wow that is old
<dobey> :)
<vuntz> maybe :-)
<vuntz> I don't really follow versions of vcs ;-)
<vuntz> I'll try to find the patch on lp and apply it
<vuntz> should be enough to test
<dobey> vuntz: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/intltool/intltoolize-version-magic/+merge/5908 has the diff then
<bryce> seb128: please fill out your info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/i965Users
<seb128> hey bryce
<seb128> will do
<bryce> heya seb128
<seb128> I read the email from pitti but I don't have my laptop with me right now
<seb128> I will do that tomorrow
<bryce> seb128: ok, main question is do you run as 64 bit or 32 bit?
<seb128> I can probably file the table without the laptop
<seb128> i386
<bryce> aha
<seb128> that's a dell d630
<bryce> seb128: I noticed a correlation between i386 and amd64 for seeing the freezes
<seb128> you have an i386 and the freeze according to the table?
<bryce> yeah I know, I'm the data point that breaks the rule
<seb128> table updated
<bryce> thanks!
<seb128> ogasawara also got the freeze using the test script apparently
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> I'm looking forward getting bling back on this config ;-)
<seb128> well I've still because I didn't upgrade compiz but I know quite some users have reported bugs about that
<seb128> bryce: did you investigate the action or having a virtual setting?
<bryce> ogasawara has the same model laptop as me (differing ram though).
<seb128> bryce: because several people commented on the bug saying they don't have the issue and use a virtual setting ... could be coincidence but could be impacting on the issue too
<bryce> I usually only see the freeze when running compiz for several hours; dunno if she runs with compiz enabled for such periods
<bryce> I do not have a virtual option set, so did not investigate that
<bryce> (since I can already reproduce the issue easily)
<seb128> perhaps try to set one and see if you still get it
<seb128> well virtual seems to workaround it not to trigger it
<bryce> sure
<bryce> at this point I'll try anything ;-)
<bryce> could be circumstantial though
<bryce> seb128: another question
<seb128> oh, other topic, do you know if anybody cares about nvidia closed source driver issues?
<seb128> we get quite some users complaining about vnc not refreshing in jaunty when using those
<bryce> seb128: since a lot of bugs that are actually X bugs (crashes) get reported against gdm, could you add an apport hook for gdm that includes the X files?
<bryce> seb128: there was a bug that ended up being vnc not having been updated to xserver 1.6
<seb128> bryce: I guess you know how to do that so feel free to upload if you want
<seb128> bryce: I can have a look otherwise
<seb128> I though probably add apport hooks to quite some desktop components
<bryce> yeah it's definitely worth learning
<seb128> anyway if you know what to do, ie have it in xorg ready to copy feel free to do it
<seb128> otherwise I will do that when I start on karmic updates
<bryce> there's no hurry, it can wait until you're ready to do karmic stuff
<bryce> you could basically just copy /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_xorg.py
<bryce> you might want to add stuff to that you'd feel might be useful for debugging other kinds of gdm issues
<seb128> well as said I've no issue with you uploading gdm so if it takes your a few minutes please do it's uploaded ;-)
<seb128> "so it's uploaded"
 * bryce <-- afraid of breaking gdm :-)
<bryce> I could send you a debdiff though
<seb128> yeah, either opening a bug or dropping me an email would be nice
<seb128> so I know where to start and it's on my todolist
<bryce> ok, will do
<seb128> thanks
<bryce> interesting, setting Virtual to 2048 2048 seems to not be freezing so far
<seb128> bryce: interesting indeed
<YokoZar> seb128: mind if i poke you on gnome-app-install?  I found you and mvo in the authors credits, and I'm interested in expanding it a bit so it can remove Wine applications that the user's installed
<seb128> YokoZar: you are confusing me with somebody else there
<YokoZar> ahh ok
<seb128> YokoZar: glatzor is probably the Sebastian in this source
<YokoZar> *looks again*
<seb128> Sebastian Heinlein?
<seb128> he's glatzor on IRC
<YokoZar> Ahh yeah it is him thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> bryce: do you know on what component is the bug about this vnc xserver 1.6 issue? or the corresponding bug number?
<bryce> seb128: 260815
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-28
<pace_t_zulu> can someone help me find the code responsible for changing screen resolution?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bryce: can we even be sure that the bug is still the same with 2.6.30 and new libdrm?
<pitti> bryce: when I wanted to test the freezes I get on the 945, these new packages change behaviour completely
<asac> hi
<pitti> hey asac
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> how are you today?
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: do you guys have any ideas about bug 322714 and bug 328885.  There seems to be a lot of vague dpkg type bugs in avahi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 322714 in avahi "package libavahi-common3 0.6.22-2ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/322714
<pitti> seb128: pretty good, and you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328885 in avahi "package libavahi-qt3-1 0.6.23-2ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: package libavahi-qt3-1 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328885
<pitti> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> good morning guys
<seb128> looking
<seb128> pitti: pretty good thanks!
<seb128> those seems bugs for mvo
<seb128> robert_ancell: the first one seems a local corruption rather than a bug
<robert_ancell> seb128: what is the best thing to do with them?  i.e. how should they be marked (I can't see anything avahi specific about them)
<seb128> that's a very good question
<seb128> I tend to close them or switch them to questions
<seb128> which is not really "right" and mvo will not agree with me there
<seb128> I tried to argue for getting an "upgrade issues" components
<seb128> but other people didn't like the idea
<robert_ancell> I want to assign them to "dkpg" or something
<seb128> other people being mvo and pitti I think ;-)
<seb128> yeah, you can do that too
<robert_ancell> (but that feels like passing the buck.  A bit like assigning to the great black hole of compiz)
<robert_ancell> so, do you close as "invalid"?
<seb128> convert it to a question saying that's a local issue and not a software bug
<seb128> that's what I do usually
<seb128> or invalid
<mvo> robert_ancell: I analyized a bunch of them
<mvo> the one: 322714
<seb128> question let the possibility that answer tracker guys will give advices to the guy on how to sort the issue
<mvo> dpkg complains that its missing a final newline, so I usually ask for the file
<mvo> and typically it contains either garbage or a bit flip error
<robert_ancell> mvo: hey
 * pitti wishes it was easier to see the actual problem in the plethora of logs
<mvo> robert_ancell: hi
<mvo> pitti: good point
<pitti> robert_ancell: I'd set 322714 to incomplete, asking for an fs check and attaching the .list file in question (sounds like corrupted fs or full disk to me)
<pitti> seb128: I still stand to this opinion
<pitti> generating large amounts of bug spam and then directing it into a black hole where nobody looks doesn't help anyone
<seb128> pitti: which one? not having an upgrade issues component?
<seb128> pitti: because that one is clearly an avahi bug? *g*
<pitti> either we make those reports better, or we stop collecting them
<mvo> it should more be a package install/upgrade component
<seb128> stop collection them
<robert_ancell> ok, but when you get the .list file back what can we do with it?
<seb128> I'm that near > < of adding a piece of code which close all of those on GNOME packages
<pitti> robert_ancell: see if it's obviously broken/truncated
<seb128> I've enough of getting 95% of useless bugs assigned on the wrong component
<pitti> seb128: I think ignoring/not collecting them is a valid option
<mvo> robert_ancell: it should contain just file names, it will probably contain a bunch of garbage in between. clear sign of either filesystem correuption, memory corruption or (heaven forbit) a bug in dpkg
<robert_ancell> pitti: and if it is, all we can say is your system is corrupted, please delete and reinstall that package?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I usually ask people to start the rescue system from grub and then start fsck
<seb128> reinstalling the package will not solve the corruption issue
<mvo> I think not collecting them is not a good option
<pitti> mvo: we shouldn't ask people to file those reports if we are just going to ignore them
<seb128> we already had this discussion, we will just never agree
<pitti> it's raising false expectations and just leads to frustrations like "ubuntu bug reports are never looked at"
<robert_ancell> I feel if I was sending in the report a link to a "fixes for dpkg issues" wiki page would make me happy
<mvo> I don't want to ignore them either, I do check a lot of them and act.  half of them a bad. but the other half is not
<seb128> what can we do to reduce this bad half to be less than that?
<pitti> I'd like to see some more specific data collection from them, so that we can sanely auto-duplicate them
<mvo> robert_ancell: there is a fsck and fix broken package option in friendly-recover (the menu in the rescue option in grub)
<pitti> and then just look at the ones which have several dupes (the real ones)
<seb128> pitti: it's hard to autoduplicate random corruption
<pitti> seb128: right, those fall into the "ignore because of missing duplicates" part
<seb128> robert_ancell has a good point, we should have a stock reply and wiki page about corruption
<pitti> but if a package's postinst fails with exit status 99 for 50 people, that's something worth looking at
<robert_ancell> mvo: I haven't been in grub for a while now it seems.  Is there a user-friendly wiki page about how to use it?
<mvo> I'm fine with collecting them into a special category as long as we keep collecting them
<mvo> robert_ancell: I don't iknow (I think its not)
<seb128> pitti: when you know what status nn means, 90% of the time it's something crashing but you don't know what, though mvo probably fixed that one now
<mvo> I mean, it sounds silly to me that we collect bugs that there are typos in the help widnow of synaptic, but we ignore errors that make package installation impossible at the users machine and say this is not a bug
<seb128> ie we get lot of random issues being scrollkeeper-update crashing
<pitti> seb128: but if it affects 50 people in our testing community, it's _still_ worth looking at it surely? (even if it is mistitled/misassigned)
<mvo> it will attach the dmesg logs now
<seb128> mvo: but it's not a bug, it's an installation issue
<mvo> right, but it still deserves attention, no?
<mvo> and often its bugs
<seb128> we already had this discussion
<seb128> I agree on that
<seb128> I just don't think forcing me to keep those bugs on my component work
<mvo> thats ok
<seb128> I just close them now because you don't force things over people when that's not something they are responsive for there
<pitti> no clue about 328885, this looks indeed like a weird apt/debconf issue
<seb128> ie I've no clue what to do about dpkg index corruptions
<mvo> so what should we do a) have a discussion (with more people) at uds again b) discuss on the ML c) just move them all to a new category?
<seb128> and I don't care enough to keep those on my components
<seb128> that would work for me
<pitti> seb128: those aren't really the ones worth looking at indeed, which is why I'm eager to get more specific data into the bug reports
<seb128> but you and pitti already expressed that you are against reassigning those to an "upgrade issue" place
<mvo> yeah, 328885 is one of the useless ones :/
<seb128> which means you force them at the wrong place where it will angry the maintainer only and not being worked anyway
<pitti> seb128: I didn't say _re_assigning is a bad thing (although I'd prefer "invalid")
<pitti> seb128: I'm just against reporting them all against a "package failures" project initially
<seb128> pitti: where do we reassign those bugs? ie the avahi one
<pitti> since that will just be one honking big mess nobody ever looks at
<pitti> seb128: perhaps we misunderstood each other then
<seb128> and why wouldn't we have some bugsquad ressource dedicated to triage that component ?
<pitti> ^ no reason not to, we just don't have it
<seb128> you seem to have the illusion that people actually triage those when they are on random components
<seb128> looking at desktop packages bug triagers just ignore those
<seb128> because they don't know what to do
<pitti> well, I triage them on my pacakges
<pitti> but I don't think that everyone does, and that's fine
<pitti> seb128: what are you trying to convince me about?
<seb128> pitti: that letting them assigned to random component is not efficient
<pitti> (and no, I don't think we can tell the community "please go triage those 20.000 bugs against "install-failures", that won't work)
<seb128> and that we should have an "upgrade issue" component
<pitti> seb128: as I said, I can live with _re_assigning
<pitti> just not with apport reporting them all against that component initially
<seb128> ok, we started wrongly
<seb128> let's restate what the problem is and what we need to do
<pitti> if you look at a bug, say "oh crap, NFC", and reassign, that's fine
<pitti> but then you looked at it and determined that you didn't see that issue 30 times already, and it's rarian which segfaults for half of the people
<seb128> - we need an easy way to move the random corruption bugs out of the way
<pitti> "invalid"?
<pitti> (or "wontfix")
<robert_ancell> re-assigning would make me happy as long as I could attach some sort of clue to the reporter on what they should do
<pitti> reassigning to a garbage dump is not ideal, but WFM, too
<seb128> ok, so course of action
<seb128> - get a stock reply and wiki page for corruption cases
<pitti> +1
<seb128> and use those to close those bugs
<robert_ancell> +1
<didrocks> seems a good way to track them (hello o/)
<seb128> - improve the information collecting process and auto-duplication
<seb128> can we automatically detect and tag in a special file conflicts?
<seb128> can we automatically detect and tag in a special way file conflicts?
<seb128> those are usually valid and useful bugs
<seb128> mvo: ^
<pitti> right, and they sound like something we should be able to detect automatically
<mvo> I think we can detect it in the error message
<pitti> also, I'd really like to avoid filing a package install bug if something in postinst segfaulted, since that should rather create a proper .crash file
<mvo> maitnainer script failures is something we can probably detect relatively easily as well
<seb128> where do we keep note of those action items?
<mvo> that would mean to enable apport again for all upgrades (stable->stable too)?
<seb128> ok, so let me take notes
 * pitti edits Bugs/Responses
<seb128> mvo, pitti, robert_ancell: you agree with closing corruption bugs are invalid?
<pitti> seb128: fine for me
<seb128> are -> as
<mvo> I'm still not comfortable with it, those might be dpkg errors (rare ones). but yeah, its ok with me
<seb128> mvo: other option is to get a "upgrade issues" component
<asac> what are "corruption" bugs? bad backtraces?
<seb128> and reassign those there
<robert_ancell> seb128: yes, as long as users get some info on how to save their system (i.e. don't think we're telling them it's not a problem)
<seb128> asac: no, dpkg status corrupted for example
<asac> oh. yeah
<seb128> asac: or weird dpkg errors about new lines, or parsing issues
<mvo> seb128: lets call it pkg failures or something, its not limited to upgrades IME
<seb128> mvo: works for me
<asac> seb128: do we have webkit ephy somewhere?
<asac> (recent)
<seb128> mvo: do you want a bug about the "would be nice to autotag file conflicts"?
<seb128> asac: no but I think there is a ppa and the packaging is in debian pkg-gnome svn
<YokoZar> mvo: I've been looking through the code of gnome-app-install and I have a design for how I'd like to extend it to support removing Wine applications.  Mind if I run it by you?
<mvo> seb128: yes please
<YokoZar> Also good evening ;)
<YokoZar> Or morning ;)
<asac> seb128: ok. i think i am member of the webkit team in launchpad ... let me check what those folks are doing actually
<mvo> YokoZar: good evening
<seb128> mvo: where should I open this bug?
<seb128> mvo: apt?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<pitti> seb128, mvo, robert_ancell: first cut at a stock response: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Package%20installation%20failure
<seb128> pitti: looks a good start to me thanks
<robert_ancell> pitti looks good
<bryce> pitti: I've tested with both 2.6.28 and 2.6.30 and have not noticed a difference in behavior
<pitti> bryce: ok, good
<robert_ancell> here's another question for everyone:  Bug 361622 requests that avahi provide a firewall rule - this seems crazy to me, if anything the firewall should have a default rule for avahi.  Do others agree?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361622 in avahi "Add application rules for the ufw firewall " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361622
<seb128> mvo: bug #368435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368435 in apt "could tag file conflicts installation issues" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368435
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo: thank *you* and sorry for ranting again there
<seb128> mvo: good that we are moving in a way where everybody is happy about the change though
<mvo> seb128: yeah
<didrocks> robert_ancell: you can provide in application packages ufw rules, which are activated or not considering the local policy. So, it doesn't sound too crazy for me :-)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: thanks, not very familiar with ufw.  Will confirm it then
<seb128> robert_ancell: talk to jdstrand on IRC when he's around
<seb128> robert_ancell: I think the idea is that packages are shipping their firewall rules, ie when you install avahi that's to get it used and the firewall rule to allow that would be there
<didrocks> seb128: exactly. I can handle it. I did for a bunch of packages when jdstrand asked some help for intrepid
<robert_ancell> cool, thanks guys
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, the desktop team presentation tomorrow at OpenWeek will be largely inspired by your last talk :)
<seb128> didrocks: good ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: you got a reply on this rhythmbox codec bug btw
<seb128> robert_ancell: I'm looking the glade upgrade bug
<seb128> robert_ancell: no need to nominate bugs for karmic that early in the cycle
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, wasn't sure when to do that.
<seb128> you also want to add a debdiff for the update to the bug
<robert_ancell> seb128: excellent, the rb response reproduces for me
<seb128> gzipped if required
<robert_ancell> seb128: I couldn't remember how to make the debdiff...
<seb128> it makes review easier since the diff is on the bug
<seb128> debdiff *.dsc
<robert_ancell> thanks
<seb128> in the dir where you have the jaunty version and your update
<robert_ancell> seb128: there now
<seb128> robert_ancell: thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128: should have gzipped it as you said though...
<seb128> robert_ancell: do you already have enough work for tomorrow?
<robert_ancell> seb128: I have various stuff to do.  If there's something you want me to look at pass it over
<seb128> robert_ancell: bug #368252 assigned to you
<robert_ancell> (I've never found nothing to do :) )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368252 in totem "Totem firefox plugin can't launch apple HD trailers" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368252
<seb128> robert_ancell: that seems another totem-pl-parser issue
<seb128> not a high priority issue, but in case you get bored ;-)
<seb128> the user claims that was working in intrepid
<didrocks> seb128: do you me to rename jaunty/karmic in my waiting to be sponsored bug (as karmic repos are opened now)?
<seb128> didrocks: feel free to do that
<seb128> didrocks: I'm still on jaunty and trying to deal with the current bug flood so those uploads will wait
<didrocks> seb128: oki, if I can do anything to help, do not hesitate (even if I'm quite busy now until middle of may ;))
<pitti> just in case you missed it in -devel: karmic is open, go wild!
<seb128> pitti: apparently we have some crack addicts, didrocks is already on it ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: :-)
<pitti> hehe
<pitti> go didrocks!
 * seb128 stills dealing with jaunty bugs
<didrocks> pitti: just began ^^
<pitti> please everyone remember to sub to karmic-changes@
<didrocks> pitti: already done this morning :D
 * pitti uploads new hal and dk-power
<Tm_T> pitti: so you can spam our mailboxes down?
<pitti> muhaha
<Tm_T> "busted"
 * didrocks is setting up a filter right now :)
<Tm_T> I revealed your evil plan!
<pitti> I have about 20 "fix committed" bugs, I want to clean my +assignedbugs list
 * seb128 is always impressed by how early people switch to new crack ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I wonder if you would mind if I'd upload the new gnome-power-manager with DK-power support
<seb128> I must be the only of to still have a stack of jaunty bugs to get fixed
<seb128> pitti: not at all, as said I'm still stucked in jaunty mode there ;-)
<seb128> we have some evolution crasher issues
<seb128> and lot of desktop bugs coming
<pitti> seb128: please don't put too much effort into jaunty SRUs
<seb128> feel free to upload anything you want to karmic
<seb128> pitti: we got at least 15 people complaining about evolution calendar hanging evo since jaunty
<pitti> yeah, I heared about that
<pitti> that's indeed an important thing
<seb128> pitti: I want to get that fixed, then I can switch to karmic
<mvo> pitti: could you nag about about a sru approval for update-manager again? sorry that its such a sru intensive beast
<pitti> seb128: I just don't think we should do a lot of work wrt. uploading all the point releases unless they fix something truly critical
<pitti> mvo: of course
<seb128> pitti: I'm almost done with srus on my list, I don't intend to spend much time on jaunty
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> pitti: right
 * pitti hugs seb128, seems we're on the same page
<seb128> pitti: karmic will be busy enough
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<didrocks> mvo: I add a karmic task to bug #361053 too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361053 in gnome-terminal "Please, sponsor gnome-terminal 2.26.1 to jaunty" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361053
<mvo> didrocks: ok
<seb128> didrocks: don't
<didrocks> oupsss
<seb128> jaunty-updates are pocket copied to karmic
<didrocks> oh, didn't know that :/ It's done until which milestone?
<seb128> it's done when the versions are identic
<seb128> in jaunty and karmic that is
<seb128> it makes sense to have only one upload
<pitti> yes, I regularly do that with SRUs
<didrocks> ok, sorry, I can't revert the release nomination. I will just put a comment, so...
<seb128> didrocks: that's ok, it's a detail
<robert_ancell> mvo: here's one you might have an idea about: bug 291484
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291484 in avahi "package libavahi-common3 0.6.23-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291484
<seb128> didrocks: just no need to create paper work where it's not required
<didrocks> seb128: good to know, though :)
<robert_ancell> see you all tomorrow
<seb128> robert_ancell: good evening, see you tomorrow
<pitti> didrocks: your gnome-terminal upload refers to LP: #572414, that doesn't exist
<didrocks> pitti: let me check if I just mixed with the corresponding GNOME bug
 * didrocks is confused :/
<didrocks> pitti: it's bug #331295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331295 in gnome-terminal "'Close this terminal' warning labels button as 'Close Window'" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331295
<didrocks> pitti: do you want I change it?
<pitti> this doesn't really match our SRU criteria, and the session fix is quite intrusive
<pitti> didrocks: please; also add a real changelog line for it which refers to the bug
<pitti> the "new upstream release" one should just close the sponsoring bug
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I am quite unconfortable to add lines that are not on NEWS file, but I will :)
<didrocks> pitti: do you think the gnome-session handling goes against the SRU criteria.
<pitti> I don't think bug 333603 is of any SRU concern
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333603 in gnome-terminal "gnome-terminal does not honor new gnome session protocol" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/333603
<pitti> session saving is _terminally_ broken in current gnome
<james_w> heh :-)
<pitti> and changing that behaviour in an SRU is not really appropriate IMHO
<pitti> I'd upload that to karmic and consider it done
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so, we just postpone in a regular update to karmic :)
<crevette> hi gentlemen
<didrocks> hey james_w ;)
<didrocks> and crevette
<crevette> sorry for not very active theses days
<crevette> :)
<crevette> +being
<james_w> salut
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks
<pitti> ember: please prepare bugs for SRUs properly (brasero)
<pitti> fixing bugs to be SRU compliant is an awful lot of work for me
<didrocks> pitti: done. I removed also the release tag in bzr and changed the bug title. Sorry for the extra useless work in candidating it for SRU
<pitti> didrocks: n/p; just be very conservative about SRUs
<didrocks> pitti: understood
<huats> hello everyone !
<pitti> mvo: wow, fixing all kinds of random broken universe stuff?
 * pitti wishes there was a way to make the upgrade more robust instead of forcing us to do those updates
<mvo> pitti: yeah, I was going over the apport-package list and noticed those issues (some pretty simple to fix)
<mvo> pitti: and yes, its anoying :/
<pitti> mvo: what concerns me is that those aren't really "simple fixes"
<pitti> once you do them, you need to feed them to Debian, get them applied, fix them in karmic, etc.
<pitti> those aren't just "fire and forget" updates
<mvo> pitti: I have some hopes for the aufs based upgrader, but that will still mean that a broken package would prevent the upgrade (it would just be a rollback)
<mvo> pitti: right
<pitti> and I wouldn't like you to get even more swamped in this stuff
<mvo> pitti: yeah, the cost is relatively high :(
<pitti> mvo: we don't do auto-upgrade tests with universe?
<mvo> pitti: we have code for this, it just takes ages. I did a ugprade with a image of ~15.000 packages installed, dpkg was 500mb real mem
<mvo> and reading the file list took ages
<mvo> it whole thing lastet a couple of days
<mvo> but we definitely should do more for karmic (there is a spec about a ec2 based tester planned)
<pitti> I thought u-m already does some tricks to continue the update if there is a single broken package, or by and large ignore file conflicts
<mvo> pitti: it does ignore all file conflicts and it will continue on error, but that only help if the error is not too deep down in the dependency chain
<mvo> why was the gnome-terminal jaunty-proposed upload rejected?
<pitti> wrong bug attribution in changelog, and general unsuitability for SRU
<pitti> (I followed up in the bug)
<mvo> aha, ok
<mvo> I kind of assumed gnome updates where ok, but I'm fine with that
<pitti> actually we only had this exception in hardy, we just continued to practice it in intrepid
<pitti> and I'm still generally fine with it, but this one was a bit too intrusive for my taste
<pitti> point releases should fix bugs, not fundamentally change behaviour
<jtholmes> popey, are you on
<popey> jtholmes: hi
<jtholmes> popey, good day i just discovered last night that you are the screencasts person, nice job btw you and your team
<popey> where unfortunately the team has been somewhat dormat for a while
<popey> needs reviving
<jtholmes> i am having problems downloading and saving any of the screencasts and wondered what i am doing wrong
<popey> any in particular?
<jtholmes> let me get the  name
<jtholmes> lets start with installing ubuntu part 1
<popey> they're quite old and could do with updating :)
<popey> which is on my todo list
<jtholmes> yes but they do server a very useful purpose
<jtholmes> I click on the download 1280X720 vorbis... and it plays but will not download any ideas
<popey> http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/
<popey> grab them from there
<jtholmes> ah, oh let me try that
<popey> http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/20070909_installing_ubuntu_part_1_theora_400k_vorbis_1280x720.ogg
<popey> thats probably the one you want
<jtholmes> good thanks, one more thing have you done a wubi sc
<popey> no
<jtholmes> ok i will let you get back to your work, thanks
<popey> np
<jtholmes> popey question pls
<popey> fire away
<jtholmes> at static...  it still only plays doesnt download what am i doing wrong using FF
<popey> right click, save link as
<jtholmes> so then the link is saved but how do i then get the contents to my machine
<popey> sorry, save target as :)
<jtholmes> ok let me try thx
<popey> np
<jtholmes> save link as is doing it not familiar with that, interesting thanks again i have a situation where i cant go to the inet to get it must have it locally appreciate you help
<popey> no problem
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> seb128: nice to see you today
<seb128> nice to see you too!
<seb128> did you have a good trip back in the us?
<rickspencer3> yes
<seb128> good ;-)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> I stopped in Washington D.C. to visit my new nephew
<pitti> rickspencer3: enjoyed the long weekend?
<rickspencer3> yes
<seb128> excellent
<rickspencer3> I love D.C. it is a wonderful city
<pitti> hah, /me runs 2.6.30rc3, -intel 2.7.0 and UXA now
<pitti> let's see where this leads me to
<rickspencer3> fortunately, my sister in law clearly did not want company, so had plenty of time to sight see and such
<rickspencer3> pitti: thanks for that
<rickspencer3> I hope it works
<pitti> rickspencer3: I survived the first 5 minutes ;)
<pitti> rickspencer3: anyway, quick update on the 965 issue
<rickspencer3> I've seen a couple of bugs related to freezes on i945 too :(
<seb128> pitti: interesting but bryce_ was trying to get the hang using a virtual setting yesterday
<pitti> rickspencer3: meeting on Friday didn't yield anything significant
<pitti> seb128: right
<seb128> and seems to confirm that it workaround the bug
<seb128> at least as said I'm using a virtual setting and never got any issue
<pitti> rickspencer3: setting a virtualsize by default sounds like a promising workaround right now
<rickspencer3> hmmm
 * seb128 notes that I suggested that some weeks ago
<rickspencer3> seems hacky to me without knowing the root cause
<seb128> rickspencer3: disabling compiz is hacky too ...
<rickspencer3> seb128: good point
<pitti> if we can do that only on the 965, it's acceptable IMHO
<pitti> it's not acceptable to set it as default on all intel chips, of course
<seb128> what are the drawback of that?
<seb128> it allows to use multiple screen too
<pitti> bryce and I had a quick discussion of that, he wanted to prepare a test package and toss that back to upstraem
<pitti> seb128: we don't know what it breaks on other chipsets
<rickspencer3> are they still trying to pursue the root cause though?
<seb128> I meant on 965
<pitti> rickspencer3: not really, at least not on stuff which can't be reproduced on 2.7.0/uxa
<rickspencer3> so basically exa is a lost cause in their mind, and we need to mitigate until we can get users to uxa?
<pitti> right
<pitti> so we'll probably end up with keeping a workaround for jaunty
<pitti> like setting virtualsize or whatever we come up with
<pitti> right now we have no clue _why_ it works
<rickspencer3> in a way, we've worked around it now
<pitti> (or whether it works for everyone, thus creating the test package)
<pitti> unfortuantely, my guess with the pipe underrun patch was wrong
<pitti> it was a shot in the dark only, but at least worth trying
<rickspencer3> we should discuss whether we should make a change, or just share how to workaround?
<pitti> rickspencer3: let's give this some more testing days with a new package with vsize
<rickspencer3> I'm a bit uneasy about changing people's xorg.conf now that it's in the wild
<rickspencer3> pitti: ack
<pitti> rickspencer3: nooo
<pitti> rickspencer3: I mean changing the driver to _default_ to vsize 4096 by default on i965
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> (or 2048, or whatever turns out to be best)
<rickspencer3> that makes much more sense
<pitti> changing xorg.conf in an update -> impossible
<rickspencer3> heh .. update manager just opened :)
<rickspencer3> pitti: thanks for driving this
<rickspencer3> and helping bryce
<pitti> well, I couldn't do a lot, just throw in some ideas and prod some people
 * pitti hugs bryce
<rickspencer3> It sounds like changing the default virtual size in the driver would make it more robust in any case
<pitti> well, we don't know for sure yet, but we have two positive results
<pitti> I'd like to see that being confirmed by the other testers
<rickspencer3> I agree with seb128 though, it seemed likely from when we were first collecting data about the bug
<rickspencer3> I'll be glad to test bryce's patch later today
<pitti> rickspencer3: no patch yet, we just talked about it
<rickspencer3> I know
<pitti> rickspencer3: but you can set VirtualSize manually to test
<kenvandine_wk> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: hi
<rickspencer3> good morning
<pitti> I need to go to a doctor appointment now
<pitti> I should be back well before the meeting
<rickspencer3> pitti: let me know what to do to help
<pitti> cu!
<rickspencer3> laters! and thanks again
<rickspencer3> so much email!
 * rickspencer3 gets shovel from shed
<seb128> rickspencer3: are you subscribed to bug emails too?
<rickspencer3> seb128: I am subscribed to many bugs, yes
<rickspencer3> if that's what you mean
<seb128> ok, because the week after a new version is always crazy
<seb128> I meant rather subscribed to ubuntu components
<seb128> ie any source package will generate lot of bugmails this week
<rickspencer3> seb128: no, I don't subscribe to components
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> I can only imagine what it's like for you at this point
 * kenvandine_wk hugs pitti's mail filters :)
<rickspencer3> seb128: are there packages that you think I should be subscribed to? I thought subscribing to the whole ubuntu desktop would be a bit much
<seb128> rickspencer3: not really no, I guess you have enough on your plates already and there is no real point for you to read bugs emails now
<seb128> ie there is nothing urgent for karmic which just started and jaunty is stable now
<rickspencer3> I do review all the change mail for Jaunty
<rickspencer3> there is a lot more than I thought there would be
<seb128> it's always that busy
<seb128> there is quite some bug fixes that we want but where the freeze blocked us
<rickspencer3> mm
<seb128> so we tend to queue those and upload just after stable
<rickspencer3> seems that we are not necessarily the most active team in the proposed changes
<seb128> and still so issues not raised before but showing in post stable feedback
<seb128> so -> some
<rickspencer3> I'm still learning the whole release process, it will be another month until I've had one release under my belt, and that will only be one release :)
<seb128> "not the most active team"
<rickspencer3> make me grateful to be on a such a great team
<seb128> that's good ;-)
<seb128> that means that we are not the team with all the bugs ;-)
<rickspencer3> heh
<seb128> for my part I'm mostly done with jaunty updates
<seb128> I usually spend the freeze time
<seb128> and the week before +1 opening
<seb128> on stable updates and then switch to the new version
<seb128> ie karmic just opened today
 * rickspencer3 is down to 431 unread emails :'(
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. can you sponsor bug 366723?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366723 in alacarte "the properties button does nothing on categories" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366723
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, will do when I start on karmic uploads
<Ampelbein> ok
<D0pamine> hai all
<seb128> mvo: hum, the python-apt api changed?
<seb128> mvo: is there an equivalent to sources.Binaries now?
<seb128> sources = apt_pkg.GetPkgSrcRecords()
<seb128>     sources.Restart()
<seb128>     sources.Lookup(package)
<seb128>     binaries = sources.Binaries
<seb128> mvo: ^ that's what I was doing
<mvo> this bit should not have changed in ages, let me check
<seb128> mvo:
<seb128>     binaries = sources.Binaries
<seb128> AttributeError: Binaries
<seb128> mvo: is what I get on jaunty
<seb128> that was working in intrepid
<mvo> seb128: what python-apt version do you run? that seems to work for me
<seb128> ii  python-apt                                 0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10                   Python interface to libapt-pkg
<seb128> hum
<seb128> mvo: ok, that's an error in my code then
<mvo> seb128: I tried: http://paste.ubuntu.com/160023/
<seb128> mvo: yeah, I've a source package listed in my table which is not in jaunty
<seb128> the error is not obvious though
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the error sucks
<seb128> mvo: sorry for the noise, thanks for looking into it
<mvo> Lookup() will return a bool if it was successful or not
<mvo> seb128: no problem
<mvo> (re: noise :)
<seb128> right, I don't check the return code
<seb128> will teach me to write quick and ugly code
<seb128> that's to list versions of GNOME packages newer in debian
<seb128> to now what needs to be merge in karmic
<pitti> hello again
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: are they useful to you? :-)
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: they?
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: mail filters
<kenvandine_wk> oh
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> very
<kenvandine_wk> i recreated them all in evo though
<kenvandine_wk> :)
<kenvandine_wk> but used the same critiria  you did
<kenvandine_wk> would have taken me months to figure out what to do with stuff without your guide :)
<kenvandine_wk> of course the launchpad headers rock!
<popey> vuntz: do you have a moment to explain what the blocker on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346162 is?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 346162 in notification area "notification areas on 2nd, 3rd X screens don't work at all" [Major,New]
<pitti> nice, two of my u1 filed bugs got closed as fixed now, and three more triaged
<pitti> . o O { gosh, compiz with uxa/dri2 is FUN! }
<tedg> popey: I'm not sure, but if I was to guess I'd guess the issue is XEmbed going across screens, which is how the notification area is implemented.
<popey> thanks for the prompt reply tedg, I have a frustrated user in #ubuntu-uk who is willing to do whatever testing is necessary to help move this bug along. He uses 4 screens on two cards and would dearly love this to work. Is there anything he/we can do?
<popey> he obviously realises that 4 screens is something that the xorg devs may not have access to
<tedg> popey: I don't think so, I think this may be an X limitation.  There is a KDE proposal to change the notification area spec to use DBus instead of XEmbed that will probably hit KDE for 4.3....  but I haven't seen any GNOME folks reply to the thread.
<popey> tedg: thats a shame. He tells me that other options such as "stalonetray" (in the repo) works, would that be one that is DBus based then?
<vuntz> popey: the blocker on my side is time & difficulties to test
<popey> hi vuntz
<hggdh> question: having had my first debdiff approved, I found myself receiving about 20 emails from Rosetta complaining about translations. Is this normal?
<vuntz> popey: the annoying thing is that it might only be a tiny detail that is wrong :/
<seb128> hggdh: yes
<seb128> hggdh: rosetta bug
<popey> vuntz: would it be worth trying to raise the profile of that bug, to see if any other developers are able to look at it, i.e. have time and equipment?
<hggdh> seb128, thanks. So I can filter to trash without any guilt, correct?
<seb128> hggdh: yes
<hggdh> thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<vuntz> popey: what do you mean with "raise the profile"?
<popey> well if you dont have the time/equipment to resolve the issue, perhaps someone else might?
<vuntz> popey: other developers would fix the bug if they were hitting it
<vuntz> (since it's a pretty annoying one, I'd say)
<popey> true
<vuntz> popey: so I don't quite know what we can do to raise the profile
<popey> ok, thanks vuntz / tedg for taking the time to talk to me about it, it's appreciated
<rickspencer3> hi Yingying_Zhao
<asac> need answer: (a) meeting starts now, (b) meeting starts in 30 min, (c) meeting starts in 1h, (d) none of the above _____
<pitti> asac: I pick (c)
<pitti> did I win 1M EUR now?
<asac> ;)
<asac> thx
<calc_> hehe
 * calc_ hopes his car starts up the next time he tries... had to drive it through water at full acceleration yesterday :(
<calc_> i thought i was going to hit my garage door because i had to drive at full accel even into my driveway so i wouldn't stall out my car, was borderline floating :\
<mvo> seb128: geh, the code to do the file-overwrite error detection is going to be ugly :/
<seb128> mvo: why?
<mvo> seb128: dpkg sends a localized error message with %.250s in it
<seb128> can we stop translating it? ;-)
<mvo> haha
<seb128> or do print an extra line only for that purpose?
<mvo> that would be a good start ;)
<mvo> yeah, best is to have dpkg give better status message, I have some code that should work with the string too, but its really not ideal
<mvo> (works, but ugly)
<asac> calc_: sounds wet ;)
<seb128> mvo: ok
<calc_> asac: yea, still raining today as well, but luckily the water has gone down at the moment
<calc_> i'm surprised we haven't hit the saturation point again
<calc_> hmm lots of warnings to stay away from any river in the area :\
<calc_> satellite service appears to be knocked out so i can't see the local weather warnings about flooding :\
<calc_> seb128: do you know if there is a bug report about this yet http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7152067 ?
 * calc_ just ran into that bug himself trying to watch local news since his sat is down
<calc_> shit my wife went to the doctor without a cellphone for me to tell her to come home :\
<calc_> apparently all schools are closed, it appears it is very serious
<seb128> this post suggests that's not a bug
<seb128> it just needs non free codecs not installed by default
<calc_> well isn't totem supposed to find them for you?
<calc_> it doesn't do that as it did prior to 9.04
<calc_> currently it just tells you the protocol support is missing and leaves the user to figure out what to do about it themselves
<seb128> totem does the mozilla plugin doesn't
<seb128> that's a known issue
<calc_> hmm well spawning a full totem from the mozilla plugin still didn't find it for me
<calc_> i'll try testing it again on my other system and reporting the bug with an example site to use later today (assuming i don't lose power again)
<calc_> 25cm of rain overnight
<seb128> could be gnome-codec-install being buggy
<seb128> but I don't know about this code
<seb128> that's a slomo thing
<calc_> ok i'll report it there along with the details once i test it again
 * calc_ wonders if he still has internet access
<calc_> wow 27s ping response i'm very lagged
<mvo> didrocks: so g-t 2.26.1 should go to karmic?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: could you please add notes and links to the wiki regarding U1 before we start?
 * pitti tosses some TCP packets to calc
<calc> it seems to be mostly working atm
<calc> only 3s now
<pitti> seb128: can we cowtrade merges? I do gconf for you, you do rarian for me?
<bryce> heya rickspencer3, wb!
<seb128> pitti: ok
<rickspencer3> tx
<seb128> pitti: I didn't even notice that you had gconf assigned, I don't use merge.ubuntu.com usually
<pitti> seb128: merci; I still pretty much don't have a clue what scrollkeeper/rarian are doing in the first place :/
<pitti> seb128: well, you have gconf assigned, but I have rarian
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: sure
<pitti> because I'm TIL (small dependency fix or so)
<seb128> pitti: ok, let's trade then ;-)
<calc> meeting?
<rickspencer3> meeting time?
 * pitti sits down
<rickspencer3> heh
 * rickspencer3 slaps desk with ruler
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-04-28
<rickspencer3> unfortunately, I'm still catching up, so not quite as organized as I like to be
<pitti> ugh, activity reports are a bit thin
<rickspencer3> pitti: right, I haven't had a chance to put them in the wiki yet
<pitti> but I saw them fly by in mail
<rickspencer3> it's all my fault
<pitti> n/p :) *hug*
<pitti> rickspencer3: hope you enjoyed the long weekend
<rickspencer3> well, I've been working non-stop since like 5:30am, so am not feeling too guilty ;)
<rickspencer3> I hope everyone is feeling good about Jaunty
<pitti> my clock does not have 5:30 _AM_
<rickspencer3> the buzz in the office in London was *very* positive
<rickspencer3> Gerry told me "best reviews ever!"
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: done
<rickspencer3> so, first topic
<pitti> a friend of mine is very pleased with it, told me to pass on the "thank you"
<rickspencer3> State of Jaunty
<pitti> we have tons of SRUs
<rickspencer3> general feedback about quality
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> pitti: is that normal?
<pitti> but none of them really OMGkittensdie
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, very
<seb128> pitti: "tons" .. the normal amount I would say
<pitti> a few major upgrade issues
<pitti> seb128: we normally have "tons and tons" :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> and some polish
<rickspencer3> lol
<pitti> I was pretty liberal in the first few days after jaunty
<pitti> but now I'll raise the bar pretty high
<pitti> sorry, davmor/mvo :)
<rickspencer3> as discussed, I would like to transfer effort to Karmic as rapidly as possible
<pitti> we still have a major e-d-s crasher and the 965 issue, otherwise I wouldn't waste too much work on it
<rickspencer3> pitti: good
<seb128> pitti: e-d-s crasher -> libical waiting for you
<seb128> pitti: I turned of the crashing warnings
<pitti> seb128: you rock
<pitti> hah
<rickspencer3> pitti: bug #?
<seb128> pitti: which is what fedora does and upstream recommends doing
<rickspencer3> for those following along?
<pitti> bug 368508
<seb128> rickspencer3: e-d-s crasher? look to recent bugs there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368508 in libical "don't crash on incorrect values or errors" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368508
<pitti> I presume
<seb128> there is several bugs which are probably duplicates
<pitti> you guys upload faster than I can process SRUs :)
<seb128> pitti: yes
<bryce> hehe
<seb128> pitti: I switched to karmic this afternoon ;-)
<seb128> so expect less SRUs from me
<pitti> seb128: would be nice if you could dupe some real bug reports to that one, to get some testers subscsribed
<seb128> "switched", ie I'm not using it yet
<seb128> but I'm working on it
<pitti> anyway, no meeting issue
<seb128> pitti: will do
<pitti> anyone else aware of somethign major which needs fixing in jaunty?
<rickspencer3> I feel that we still have this i965 nut to crack, and that as a team we won't really be done with Jaunty until we have compiz working again
<pitti> asac: did anything pop up on the nm/ff front?
<pitti> bryce: and any other kitten killers besides 965?
<bryce> not really
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: or major breakage in notify-osd?
<bryce> well, lots of X bugs kill kittens
<bryce> but none that are on a rampage
<pitti> ok, good
<pitti> bryce: all will be better with DRI2/UXA, right? :-)
<pitti> (famous last words)
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: not really
<bryce> I've talked to colin king about the performance issue, so we may see some progress there, but that's mainly kernel side stuff
<bryce> pitti: yes, we get to exchange all our nasty old bugs
<bryce> for fresh new ones
 * pitti is running 2.6.30rc3/uxa/dri2/2.7.0 happily
<pitti> ok, seems the "jaunty state" topic is done?
<rickspencer3> yes
<rickspencer3> except ... if you have an i965, or access to one, please be highly responsive to requests for assistance
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: U1?
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> so U1 beta is coming up soon
<kenvandine_wk> and I don't think we have had enough testing... so I have been turning up the heat
<seb128> what is U1?
<pitti> ubuntu one
<kenvandine_wk> I even went cold turkey from dropbox
<kenvandine_wk> serious dogfooding
<seb128> ah ok
<kenvandine_wk> there are instructions on the meeting wiki page for setting it up, everyone on the desktop team needs to kick the tires and report bugs
<kenvandine_wk> but wait until tomorrow please :)
<kenvandine_wk> major bug fixes are landing today as well as ppa changes
<kenvandine_wk> thanks, lets help make sure U1 rocks!
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: thanks
<rickspencer3> all - please note that the U1 team is trying *very* hard to be easy to work with here
<rickspencer3> so I ask that we support them in kind by running their bits
<rickspencer3> I'll ask kenvandine_wk to set up some kind of test or something that we can all participate in for the next team meeting
<rickspencer3> next topic
<rickspencer3> Launchpad Team and Kubuntu
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to point out that three of the leads are serious Kubuntu fans
<rickspencer3> Riddell: ^^^
<rickspencer3> I'm trying to get them to join #kubuntu-devel and support the project
<rickspencer3> next topic: Launchpad Team and Kubuntu
<rickspencer3> oops ... copy paste error ;)
<rickspencer3> All Hands
<rickspencer3> everyone ready?
<pitti> I brought my two hands
<Riddell> cool
<pitti> still need to prep the talks, though
<rickspencer3> anyone else doing a talk?
 * rickspencer3 raises hand
<calc> i am, need to finish it up still
<ArneGoetje> any information in which format the talks should be? I didn't see anything announced
<ArneGoetje> me too
<pitti> hm, it came through the lists
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to dig up info on all hands talk and resend to desktop team
<pitti> I got two "talk approved" mails with some details, you didn't?
<bryce> I'm doing a talk but I've not even had a moment to think about UDS :-(
<ArneGoetje> I only saw the announcement for the talks, but I haven't seen anything about the preferred file format
<rickspencer3> seb128: you're doing one if I recall correctly
<seb128> rickspencer3: I got no email
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<seb128> so I guess my talk didn't get approved
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to check on seb128's talk
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: i got a no thanks mail :)
<rickspencer3> seb128: I thought I was cc'ed on one for you
<seb128> rickspencer3: could have been spammed then
<rickspencer3> seb128: ack, I'll check it out asap
 * pitti wonders about the spammy topic seb128 will talk about then
<seb128> if it got spammed I deleted it
<seb128> or "marked as spam" rather
<rickspencer3> seb128's topic was about about canning spiced ham, so it may have been diverted
<seb128> I've difficulties to keep my boxes spam free at the moment
<rickspencer3> ready to talk a little about UDS?
<seb128> yes!
<kenvandine_wk> i've had my email addy for 2 months now... and get a ton of spam already, can only imagine what seb128 gets
<rickspencer3> a key change for Karmic is that we have two rooms
 * pitti gets about 5000 a day through SpamAssassin, and about 70.000 per day which are rejected earlier on
<calc> the canonical filter seems to catch most of my spam
<rickspencer3> also, we are "hosting" Dx and Design in our track
<rickspencer3> you may notice that I have added a bunch of blueprint "stubs"
<ArneGoetje> mie didn't get approved yet
<ArneGoetje> mine
<rickspencer3> essentially placeholders that I could use to subscibe folks to and for scheduling
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: no problems. These initial ones were based on internal partners and other things
<ArneGoetje> ok
<rickspencer3> folks from the community and Ubuntu engineers, still have time to create blueprints
<ArneGoetje> until when?
<seb128> do we need to create blueprints or only to suggest topics?
<rickspencer3> ideally, you would all get them stubbed out by eow
<rickspencer3> seb128: go ahead and create them, I think
<rickspencer3> I haven't been through this before, so I thought I would let you all tell me how you want to do it
<rickspencer3> I'
<rickspencer3> ll create them for you if you want, but it seems more efficient just to let you do it
<rickspencer3> pitti: what do you think?
<pitti> would be good to have the blueprints created in a week, so that we can still schedule them appropriately
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i have a few i proposed, which don't show up on the list yet... not sure what has to happen there
<seb128> right, I was just wondering if we were filtering topics before
<pitti> yes, everyone should create their "own", which you are interested in
<seb128> to not create blueprint for things which are not scheduled or accepted
<pitti> set drafter to you, approver to me, and propose for uds-karmic
<seb128> ok
<pitti> blueprints need to have a good summary and title
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: if i find one that exists already, how can i set myself to drafter?
<pitti> no need to create wiki pages yet, although of course having them is nice
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: "change people"
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: prod me to do it if you can't
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> i have a couple i can't
<pitti> (it's restricted to some group I can't remember)
<pitti> or prod rickspencer3, whoever is available
<kenvandine_wk> i'll poke you after the meeting
<rickspencer3> In terms of title, I would ask that folks also start the name with "desktop"
<pitti> so before next meeting, rick and I will go through the karmic proposed ones and approve them
<rickspencer3> this makes the list much easier to use, I also have to manage dx and design sessions
<pitti> so that we can talk about the list in next week's meeting
<kenvandine_wk> can we rename the existing ones?
<pitti> right, good to bring that up
<kenvandine_wk> or have you guys rename them?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: yes
<pitti> please prefix the spec identifiers with desktop-karmic-*
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: retitling is easy, I don't know if the identifier can be changed
<pitti> anyone should be able to update title/description
<kenvandine_wk> i can't for the ones i didn't create
<kenvandine_wk> at least the one i tried
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ok, let rickspencer3 or me reassign, then you will be able to
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<rickspencer3> next topic is easy: Desktop Summit
<rickspencer3> let me know if you're going, or want to go
<tkamppeter> I will not be there.
<rickspencer3> also, Canonical is hosting the welcoming party, so if you're going, make sure you get there in time for that, it should be a blast
<bryce> me neither
<rickspencer3> :(
<calc> rickspencer3: i emailed you last week about it
<ArneGoetje> me neither
<calc> rickspencer3: i'm interested in going but didn't have time to submit a paper before the deadline
<rickspencer3> okay, let me know *off list* if you're going or want to go :)
<rickspencer3> calc: ping me later and we can talk
<calc> ok
<rickspencer3> next: OEM team swapperoo
<rickspencer3> reminder that calc will be working with OEM services starting next week!
<rickspencer3> and we'll have a new team member as well (Tony, I think)
<bryce> have fun calc
<calc> bryce: heh :)
<bryce> will tony be working on openoffice then, or general desktop stuff?
<calc> i get to learn lots of new things and bring back my knowledge to the desktop crew in november :)
<rickspencer3> bryce: both
<rickspencer3> I think we'll have to basically slow down OOo development (which given the Sun buyout may be prudent anyway) and spread the work around a bit
<rickspencer3> also, calc will have some time to help us
<calc> the biggest chunk of OOo work is getting bugs properly triaged due to having two upstreams
<calc> we are pretty much caught up at the moment but get lots of new bugs every day :)
<rickspencer3> calc: We'll miss you, but I think you'll have a great time, and learn tons
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<calc> yep :)
<bryce> oh I have one thing
<bryce> I already mentioned it on the ubuntu-devel@ mailing list, but the X team has a PPA set up now with updates for all the major video drivers
<pitti> calc: good luck!
<bryce> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates/
<rickspencer3> bryce: notice that Yingying_Zhao has started haning out in #u-d?
<bryce> I'm sure everyone here will be on karmic so will be getting these automatically, but please pass word around about this to anyone sticking to Jaunty.
<bryce> rickspencer3: no I hadn't
<rickspencer3> hi Yingying_Zhao o/
 * bryce waves to Yingying_Zhao
<pitti> hi Yingying_Zhao, nice to see you here!
<bryce> I'm formulating plans for -intel focus work for karmic, but more on that later.
<rickspencer3> schweet
<bryce> naught else from me.
<rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
<calc> oh is Tony from the OEM team swap or a new hire?
<pitti> have fun everyone with karmic syncs and new crack!
<rickspencer3> calc: swap
<pitti> s/syncs/merges/
<calc> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<pitti> thanks all
<bryce> calc: iirc tony is the guitarist in the allhands jam
<seb128> thanks all
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: good night :)
<calc> bryce: ah
<calc> thanks
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: thanks... soon :)
<bryce> thanks all
<asac> thx
 * calc loves the huge influx of bugs a release causes, heh
<bryce> calc: yeah the slope on my curve is steeper than it's ever been
<pitti> calc: strange kind of love :)
<bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/totals.svg
<bryce> looks like a jet taking off
<bryce> of course, I've been focusing on like TWO bugs exclusively the past couple weeks, but still...
<pitti> everyone's bug mailbox is exploding indeed
<pitti> but I think that's mostly due to ever-more people reporting feedback, not necessarily because we get worse
<seb128> that's for sure
<seb128> desktop bugs are mostly small details
<seb128> but there is just of enthousiastic users reporting anything they find
<seb128> +lot
<calc> bryce: i keep beating mine down but they pop up as quickly as i can squash them
<pitti> mvo: still remember why you applied the gconf patch 05_from_vuntz_gconf2-pk-default-path.patch ?
<pitti> +    - use xml:merged:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults as default
<pitti> +      location for system settings (thanks to vuntz)
<seb128> pitti: because that's the right directory to use on debian or ubuntu
<pitti> okay
<pitti> seb128: but then, why do we carry a patch which adds /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.system/ and adds a change to debian/default.path to include xml:readonly:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.system?
<pitti> that directory is empty here
<seb128> pitti: that's probably a leftover from the time where we didn't have this patch you just listed
<pitti> right, I wondered why we have both, we should drop one
<pitti> and it looks to me like we could drop gconf.xml.system
<seb128> we need to check when we used the wrong directory
<seb128> ie did it make to a stable?
<seb128> in which case people might have settings there
<pitti> seb128: okay, I'll do that then
<pitti> seb128: if I find anything, I keep the default.path addition
<pitti> it doesn't really hurt anyway
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: thanks for the heads-up
<pitti> well, I'll just keep it
<seb128> you're welcome
<pitti> +# new system defaults mechanism (deprecated, but we need to keep it
<pitti> +# for compatiblity with intrepid (8.10) were this was the default
<pitti> +# for the system wide gconf settings (via org.gnome.GConf.Defaults)
<pitti> ah
<pitti> I'm off for the evening, we meet for preparing a friend's wedding
<pitti> see you tomorrow!
<bryce> cya pitti
<seb128> pitti: have fun, see you tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - got any karmic updates for me to do? ;)
 * chrisccoulson is liking the thunderstorm outside
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hello
<seb128> chrisccoulson: yeah, lot of things to do, I need to do a list
<seb128> chrisccoulson: do you want to sync gnome-session on debian?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that
<seb128> sync or merge whatever is required
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you can look to merge nautilus too if you want
<chrisccoulson> i'll take a look at it
<calc> i think was are past the saturation point now it hasn't rained in an hour or so and the water level on the street isn't receding :(
 * calc hopes it doesn't rain any more
<seb128> chrisccoulson: cool, I will try to make a team todolist tomorrow for other updates and work
<chrisccoulson> thanks, that would be useful:)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: any package which has not been merged with debian yet is a good candidate to clean
<seb128> ie we want to send changes upstream or to debian when it makes sense
<seb128> and rebase the version on debian
<crevette> heya
<crevette> hey huats
<crevette> hello seb128
<seb128> hi crevette
<huats> hello crevette
<mahendra> hello
<mahendra> i need some help
<crevette> seb128: I wonder how you do to not get lost in update between upstream one and debian sync
<crevette> :)
<mahendra> i just upgraded my ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. but now there is no title bar to any of the windows.
<crevette> it's a kind of sport
<mahendra> i tried changing themes but its not working
<seb128> crevette: you need to know where to look ;-)
<seb128> mahendra: try #ubuntu
<mahendra> ok
<seb128> mahendra: that channel is a work one not an user question one
<mahendra> thanks
<seb128> mahendra: and I would recommend using 9.04 it's much better than 8.10
<crevette> :)
<mahendra> i am going to upgrade to 9.04 but i need to solve this problem first
<crevette> seb128: sorry for not bein that active
<seb128> crevette: no need to be sorry
<crevette> I seriously lack some times :/
<crevette> bah, I feel totally inefficient :/
<seb128> you have enough to do
<crevette> I'll try to get some time later to help you for some packaging :)
<seb128> cool
<seb128> bbl
<crevette> that was quick
<seb128> yeah just forgot to write something on an another channel
<seb128> bbl for now
<crevette> see uou
<dobey> vuntz: is that intltool fix sufficiently good for you?
<calc> ugh my wife and son are stuck in another part of the city and can't get back due to the flooding :\
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-29
<marcelo_> I have installed Ubuntu 9.04 and have notice the slowness of graphics!!!  Xorg is taking up 30% of my cpu and beagle-helper is taking up 15% to 20% of my cpu...    thats on avarage 50% of my cpu!!!   can anyone please help me before i have to back to vista witch ran just fine....   I am a nuwbie to linux and have liked it so far but now I am stuck with this problem.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hi pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: still reviewing SRUs? :)
<pitti> every day after a release :)
<didrocks> good luck ;)
<pitti> I spent the morning packaging the new g-p-m, though
<pitti> still has some rough edges, though, so I'd like to get some more work onto that
<didrocks> is it working great?
<didrocks> oki
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, FYI, in case you are interested in g-p-m, I have a branch with 2.26.1 (to avoid double work)
<pitti> didrocks: yay devicekit :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, didn't know they integrated devicekit. I will have a look to it :)
<pitti> didrocks: I blogged about it a while ago
<didrocks> found http://martinpitt.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/wanna-touch-devicekit/, remember now :)
<robert_ancell> pitti: g-p-m = gnome-power-manager?  Don't think I've ever looked at it...
<didrocks> pitti: I will try it when you will make it available. I'm bored that my suspend to ram works so well :)
<robert_ancell> Who is the local Firefox expert?  I've been looking at bug 368252 and I don't have the know-how to trace how the totem plugin is invoked.  Clues are making it look like Firefox+javascript may be causing the problem..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368252 in totem "Totem firefox plugin can't launch apple HD trailers" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368252
<pitti> ok, I'm off for an hour or two for a doctor appointment
<didrocks> see you
<robert_ancell> later
<didrocks> robert_ancell: asac IIRC
<robert_ancell> didrocks: cheers
<didrocks> y/w
<pitti> re
<didrocks> re pitti
<seb128> hello pitti didrocks
<pitti> hey seb128
<didrocks> Hi seb128
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell: how was your day? did you manage to squash some bugs? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: hard going today.  I worked on the totem-mozilla bug but I think it's a firefox issue? Some more work on the SSH bug, I can repeat it but I don't get what is going on
 * robert_ancell has been pushing all his work upstream today :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: could be for totem, it's weird that the non-hd things are working and firefox is calling totem by looking to .xsession-errors
<pitti> hm, this U1 thing doesn't really seem to like me :/
<robert_ancell> seb128: well it seems to be due to the way the page is crafted.  I was hacking it apart to find what HTML/JS code is making the difference
<crevette> hello
<didrocks> hey crevette
<seb128> robert_ancell: I see
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> robert_ancell: don't spend too much time on it, reassign to firefox if the bug is there
<robert_ancell> pitti: I was wondering if it didn't work 'cause it was shut down when I was awake - it hardly never works!
<crevette> hello frenchies
<pitti> well, I set it up, and I see my files again which I uploaded two months ago
<pitti> but it never syncs
<robert_ancell> seb128: that's my guess - I'll do that and they can reassign it back if they can say why its invoking the plugin in different ways
 * crevette is interested by what is this U1 project
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I guess today we just know mere mortal
<crevette> +s
<pitti> crevette: wait until May 7 :) then the public beta will start
<pitti> ECHANNEL, sorry
<pitti> but well, we talked about it in the meeting yesterday
<pitti> crevette: can you see http://ubuntuone.com ?
<asac> robert_ancell: ?
<asac> robert_ancell: what have you found so far?
<crevette> pitti, no, I don't permission to see it :)
<robert_ancell> asac: can you look at bug 368252 - I'm a bit lost on the divide between firefox and the totem plugin
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368252 in totem "Totem firefox plugin can't launch apple HD trailers" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368252
<seb128> robert_ancell: the rhythmbox issue, are you waiting on an another example?
<seb128> robert_ancell: I think the current case is already worth fixing, what do you think
<robert_ancell> seb128:  I agree.  I was diving into the source but I got lost.  I'm not sure if it's a gstreamer or rhythmbox issue.  I was looking at the diffs but couldn't see anything.
<seb128> robert_ancell: I would expect rather a gstreamer one
<seb128> but I'm not sure either
<seb128> it's just a random guess ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: I also tried the Intrepid rb but it occurs for that too - this is why I think it is probably in gstreamer
<asac> robert_ancell: what is supposed to happen when you left click?
<robert_ancell> It should open the video in fullscreen afaik
<robert_ancell> (it's just a standard link)
<robert_ancell> asac: the interesting thing that stood out in the log is "width 1" and "height 1" for the failed cases
<asac> robert_ancell: onclick="s_objectID=&quot;http://movies.apple.com/movies/paramount/star_trek/startrek-clip_480p.mov_1&quot;;return this.s_oc?this.s_oc(e):true"
<asac> thats what happens "on click"
<asac> doesnt look right
<robert_ancell> asac: yeah, do you think they've changed the page?
<robert_ancell> asac: how did you get that?  I was playing around with the web developer plugin but couldn't find out how to get what a link would resolve to
<asac> robert_ancell:  can you check what "this.s_oc function does?
<asac> robert_ancell: install firefox-3.0-dom-inspector
<asac> robert_ancell: then you can click on elements and see the HTML element in the inspector
<seb128> tseliot: hi, did you read the xrandr capplet bug about virtual settings questions?
<tseliot> seb128: what bug?
 * seb128 grrr at people not reading their bug emails
<seb128> let me get the number, I assigned the bug to you
<seb128> tseliot: bug #365210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 365210 in gnome-control-center "gnome-display-properties mistakenly requires logout to increase resolution" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365210
<tseliot> seb128: I might have read that but I would like to know what bug you're referring to
<asac> robert_ancell: it seems to do something ... so figure out what this.s_oc function does
<asac> robert_ancell: and so on
<asac> have to get coffee now ;)
<robert_ancell> asac: ok, cheers
<seb128> tseliot: I get it every time on several boxes
<seb128> tseliot: it's quite annoying and would be nice to fix in a sru
<tseliot> seb128: I think I missed this report. I'll try to reproduce the problem here and work on a fix
<seb128> tseliot: thanks
<tseliot> np
<seb128> tseliot: it's easy, start the capplet, try a lower resolution and back to your normal one
<seb128> it will not go back until you restart the capplet
<seb128> and it wants to add virtual settings when not required
<seb128> ie just to go back to the normal value you were using for example
<tseliot> seb128: and does this happen when the virtual resolution is already set in xorg.conf?
<seb128> pitti: how do you deal with sync-source -a errors?
<pitti> seb128: one by one, I'm afraid
<seb128> tseliot: I've not tried, I'm using one screen
<pitti> seb128: often we need to remove packages first, because they got renamed
<seb128> pitti: is there a way to skip the broken entry or resume from there instead of redoing the whole -a ?
<pitti> seb128: or binaries moved around (then -F helps)
<pitti> seb128: or different orig
<tseliot> seb128: ah, ok, so in your case it wasn't set
<seb128> pitti: could you look to the libdca error and tell me what you would do?
<pitti> seb128: resuming isn't possible, I'm afraid
<pitti> seb128: you have to temporarily blacklist it, -a again, rinse and repeat until it succeeds
<pitti> and then resolve the temporary blacklisted ones
<seb128> tseliot: I'm using one screen on ati and no, I've no virtual on this box
<pitti> seb128: looking
<tseliot> ok
<seb128> tseliot: but virtual is not required since that the normal resolution
<seb128> I just start the capplet
<seb128> change to 800x600 for example
<seb128> ack the choice
<seb128> and then try to change back to the normal value
<seb128> I get the error
<seb128> restart the capplet and it works
<tseliot> ok, thanks for the info
<seb128> you're welcome, thanks for looking into it!
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<seb128> pitti: I've been fixing some overwritte issues yesterday by using -f for those
<pitti> seb128: right, what I said; our current libdts-dev is built from the libdts source
<seb128> binaries which are built by new sources
<pitti> seb128: so this one should just be --force'd, I think
<seb128> ok, so -f, flush, wait for publishing and -a again?
<seb128> pitti: ok, can you do it while you have it locally? thanks!
<pitti> seb128: or just skil flush and publisher, and immediately run -a again
<seb128> pitti: oh, no need to wait for publisher?
<pitti> seb128: no, just don't flush
<pitti> and let it sync all over again
<seb128> pitti: I was not sure where it was getting versions to compare
<pitti> that should be faster
<seb128> pitti: it breaks again on the same case then
<seb128> even if I -f ed it
<pitti> seb128: not if you temporarily blacklist it
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<seb128> I will do that next time, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: oh, hang on
<pitti> seb128: no, I won't sync that
<pitti> seb128: our libtds-dev is ubuntu modified
<pitti> it won't scribble over that
<pitti> it needs to be merged
<pitti> (or at least checked if the changes can go)
<seb128> pitti: so just blacklist it for now?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<robert_ancell> I'm off, see you guys tomorrow
<seb128> robert_ancell: have a nice evening see you tomorrow
<pitti> robert_ancell: good night!
<seb128> pitti: can you do that while you are at it?
<robert_ancell> bye
<pitti> well, I'm not "at it", but *shrug*
<seb128> pitti: I'll continue on sync when I'm done with what I'm doing right now
<pitti> sure
<seb128> pitti: ok don't bother, I though you were already sshing on the box
<seb128> I will do that in a bit
<pitti> seb128: doing now, don't worry
<seb128> I stopped on that this night and didn't resume yet
<seb128> I just kept the question for this morning ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: ah, that's an ancient package (gutsy)
<pitti> seb128: I'll just remove the libdts source, then it should just sync
<chrisccoulson> is anyone intereted in taking bug 337441 for karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337441 in gnome-settings-daemon "Low disk space warning "Cancel" and "OK" buttons do the same thing" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337441
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it'd probably be better to do a full process-removals run, I'll do that one
<seb128> pitti: you rock!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was going to offer if noone else wanted to do it already:)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: go for it, I expect we will find enough to do to not get bored without that one ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i'll take that one then. thanks
<seb128> thank you
<pitti> seb128: right, process-removals duefully caught it
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you see my response in bug 360399? I don't think we're going to get an SRU-worthy fix to resolve this issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360399 in tracker "Tracker Evolution Eplug missing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360399
<chrisccoulson> upstream identified some issues with the plugin but when they fixed it it caused a big regression, and so they've just disabled it completely in 0.6.9x which we have in jaunty
<chrisccoulson> and they're not planning any more work on that
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, I saw it; nevermind about it
<chrisccoulson> you can probably unsubscribe the sponsors team and ubuntu-sru team from that if you like
<pitti> at least the sponsors, yes
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
 * pitti finally removes gtk+1.2
<seb128> pitti: waouh!
<pitti> seems that nobody ran process-removals for some time
<pitti> seb128: hmm, eel2 got removed in Debian
<pitti> ROM; obsolete, no rdeps, now in nautilus
<seb128> pitti: right, we got it off the CD in jaunty
<pitti> still being used by g-c-c and libnautilus-burn
<seb128> g-c-c ?!
<pitti> and three universe packages
<pitti> -- karmic/main build deps on libeel2-dev:
<pitti> gnome-control-center
<seb128> that's a mistake
<pitti> seb128: anyway, I'll keep it for now
<seb128> rdpends lists n-c-b too but that's a mistake too
<pitti> we'll do another process-removal run
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: or want me to kill it now as a kind of reminder? :-)
<seb128> I would not mind you doing that
<pitti> "oops", it's gone :)
<seb128> I've karmic sources there and there is only 3 rdepends
<pitti> yay cruft cleanup
<seb128> and I expect 2 of those to be fixed when syncing the second half of the archive
<pitti> absolutely
<pitti> they must have fixed it in debian
<pitti> let's create some breakage
<seb128> and g-c-c is just a cruft left in the build-depends
<pitti> karmic works waaaaay too well right now
<seb128> yeah, karmic is boring
<pitti> well, new kernel+uxa is quite nice, though :)
<pitti> seb128: okay, process-removals done; I suggest to let that publish (12:00 CEST) and then do a sync run
<pitti> should get a little further now
<seb128> pitti: ok thanks
<seb128> pitti: no hurry I expect the buildds are busy for the day
<pitti> hehe
<seb128> the first sync runs yesterday did quite some work
<pitti> it also cut quite a dent into MoM main.html
<pitti> ok, so I'll get back to fixing g-p-m 2.26.1
<pitti> and then I'll look into DK-disks and gnome-disk-tool
 * pitti is in crack & breakage mood today
<crevette> yeah
<chrisccoulson> we're getting g-p-m 2.26.1 this cycle are we?
 * crevette wants to have a broken distro
 * chrisccoulson gives crevette a large hammer
<pitti> crevette: that's my plan anyway
<crevette> :)
<pitti> crevette: likewise, gnome-mount/hal -> gnome-disk-tool/dk-disks
<crevette> I didn't switch to karmic yet
<crevette> gnome-mount is superseded by gnome-disk-tool
<pitti> erm, chrisccoulson: that's my plan anyway
<chrisccoulson> pitti - nice:)
 * crevette is lagging behind for new gnome technology
<pitti> I'm running gpm/dk-power here, but it has some small problems
<chrisccoulson> what sort of problems? i know the newer g-p-m has proper consolekit support so doesn't try to do actions on the inactive VT
<chrisccoulson> should fix an annoying bug i have where i press the power button on my machine and the shutdown dialog appears on all user sessions
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it doesn't suspend when I close the lid
<pitti> other than that, it seems to work fine
<pitti> chrisccoulson: weird, I thought that problem was gone ages ago
<seb128> pitti: gnome bug #573826
<chrisccoulson> pitti - my power button produces a HAL event on the system bus rather than going through X, so all running instances of g-p-m get the event and respond to it
<ubottu> Gnome bug 573826 in general "gdu volume monitor" [Normal,Assigned] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=573826
<seb128> too
<seb128> pitti: I expect they will land it upstream in 2.27
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what sort of event does your lid button produce?
<pitti> seb128: you are a bug machine
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I spend too much time working on bugs indeed ;-)
<pitti> seb128: ah, for that; thanks (I thought you referred to the lid issue)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what kind of events? I'll watch g-p-m in debug mode
<seb128> pitti: no, sorry for the confusion
<pitti> seb128: your's is for gvfs hal->dk, isn't it?
<seb128> pitti: yes, it was a reply to your dk-disks comment
<chrisccoulson> pitti - if your lid button produces a hal event, then it won't work in g-p-m 2.26.x unless you built it with --enable-legacy-buttons
<pitti> chrisccoulson: indeed, pressing the power button doesn't do anything either
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just get hal events, but nothing in g-p-m
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i just get HAL events too. the new g-p-m doesn't support those unless you enable the support explicitly. that should probably be enabled in karmic until all hotkey support has gone from HAL
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I'll have a look at this
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the stuff you're interested in is in src/gpm-button.c
<chrisccoulson> all the hal stuff is conditionally compiled with #ifdef HAVE_LEGACY_BUTTONS
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, so that would require a DK-acpi or something such
<crevette> so to understand the big picture hal is being deprecated to DeviceKit?
<chrisccoulson> the comments in there suggest that hotkey support is being removed from HAL and they will all produce keypress events through X
<seb128> pitti: CEST is european time right?
<seb128> pitti: ie still half an hour to wait for this publisher run?
<pitti> seb128: right
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: many thanks, testing now
<crevette> CEST is our time
<crevette> mere frenchies
<crevette> and all the countries around (to not appear selfish)
<crevette> :)
<seb128> crevette: right, what I though and has been confirmed, "european time"
<crevette> sorry I'm lagging
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, doesn't seem to help :/
<seb128> mvo: ok, I've update-notifier buggy again
<seb128> mvo: it opens update-manager every time I do an apt-get install
<mvo> seb128: please keep it in that state
<seb128> mvo: ok
<mvo> seb128: I need to for for lunch, after afterwards I would love to diagnose it
<seb128> mvo: ok, I'm not touching the box until after lunch
<seb128> or rather letting that in state ;-)
<seb128> I will do bug triage now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, nevermind, working perfectly; was just my docking station going mad at me
<seb128> pitti: I know you already did SRU yesterday but it would be nice if you could review libical today
<seb128> pitti: we have quite some users annoyed by evolution hanging or crashing
<seb128> the change should be easy enough to review
<pitti> seb128: I will (I need to do SRU daily these times anyway)
<seb128> thanks!
<pitti> well, I do it right now; g-p-m isn't that urgent
<pitti> seb128: can you please dupe some real bug reports to bug 368508, to get some affected users subscribed, and to underline the necessity for SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368508 in libical "don't crash on incorrect values or errors" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368508
<seb128> pitti: I plan to add comments on the stack of evo bugs when it's accepted
<seb128> to ask people to try this change
<pitti> okay
<seb128> I don't want to dup since the other ones a still bugs
<seb128> they will not lead to crashes but should still be fixed
<seb128> a -> are
<pitti> if you ask them to give feedback on this one, that's okay
<pitti> (accepted)
<seb128> ok, commenting now
<pitti> seb128: since bug 363169 is not a regression, I'm nervous about it for SRU; it might uncover other bugs in the new functionality
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 363169 in libxklavier "libxklavier is built without XInput support" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363169
<seb128> pitti: the bug submitter is upstream and the code path different is some 7-8 lines
<seb128> pitti: it's just a callback called on new device detection
<pitti> right, but that hasn't been tested properly?
<seb128> pitti: and it has been tested in other distros
<seb128> pitti: well, I don't feel strongly about it, just upstream has been pushy to get it sru-ed
<pitti> well, it's not a regression, and not at all a major bug, so it needs some more convincing to become an SRU
<seb128> and we have some user complaining about keyboard settings being dropped after suspend etc
<seb128> it's a "annoying bug"
<seb128> it reset your keyboard settings in some cases where xorg redetect the device
<seb128> but I'm fine waiting a bit to have karmic feedback or debian one
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it's good that works now:)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: now I just need to find out how to repair the notify-osd patch, then it's all good
<chrisccoulson> i've not seen that patch. is it quite big?
<pitti> it's in the bzr tree
<pitti> shouldn't be too hard to port
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti: I would not have sru-ed to fix the issue only since I think it's a minor one too, I'm trying to not make manage upstream there but if want to put it on hold fine with me too
<pitti> mvo: lots of people still have trouble in bug 257639
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257639 in packagekit "E: The package cache file is corrupted E: _cache->open() failed, please report." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257639
<glatzor> servus pitti and mvo, as a work around we could disable the update cache of packagekit
<glatzor> this would require a backport of f876a76737e504fca161f075bd0d1b8ba386cb75 and setting the corresponding configuration option
<glatzor> if we disable the internal update cache of packagekit there would be no need for the apt post-update script anymore
<pitti> hey glatzor, wie gehts?
<glatzor> pitti, oh, work time consumes a lot of my life currently - so could be better. and yourself?
<pitti> glatzor: pretty good, thanks; looking forward to karmic breakage :)
<asac> mvo: are "restart required" notifications still done in tray or by a pop up in jaunty?
<seb128> asac: dialog auto opening
<asac> ah ... so thats why users complain about getting that without seeing the in-firefox notification
<james_w> asac: if I have an empty .mozilla/extensions/\{ec8030f7-c20a-464f-9b0e-13a3a9e97384\}/ does that mean ubufox is disabled?
<asac> mvo: i have http://paste.ubuntu.com/160607/ in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/firefox-3.0-restart-required ... nothing happens at all
<asac> james_w: check in tools -> addons ... search for "Ubuntu Firefox ..."
<glatzor> pitti, mvo: sorry for not thinking about this. but we could delay the packagekit statehaschanged action quite easily
<james_w> asac: that's my old profile
 * pitti merges the 73177 line diff of g-p-m dk branch to the ubuntu branch, *ugh*
<james_w> asac: going back to that might lose my tabs again :-)
<mvo> glatzor: do you have a diff to look at?
<glatzor> pitti, mvo: we could raise PK_ENGINE_STATE_CHANGED_PRIORITY_TIMEOUT in src/pk-engine.c
<mvo> asac: have yu touched /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp ?
<asac> james_w: not sure that i get what you mean ;)
<james_w> asac: it claims to be enabled
<asac> james_w: and touching the file doesnt display the in-firefox notification ?
<asac> mvo: since when do i need to do that?
<mvo> asac: its done automatically by apt if you install the package
<mvo> asac: but if you just do local testing, then its needed
<asac> mvo: i just raun --reinstall firefox-3.0
<james_w> asac: it does this time
<mvo> asac: hm, that should work, give me a sec to check
<asac> mvo: touched both a few times ... nothing changes.
<asac> james_w: so maybe you didnt see that when it happened?
<james_w> asac: what happened was that I installed today's upgrades, and firefox stopped working properly in the middle as usual. After a while I noticed the update-notifier dialog, closed that, went to firefox, and there was no banner. So I just hit the X in the top right and then started firefox again.
<asac> james_w: anyway. there are still bugs with upgrading even with this in-firefox notification ... so with some bad luck you might loose tabs on upgrade - unfortunately
<mvo> asac: hm, seems to work for me, could you please run "update-notifier --debug-hooks" ? it will spit out quite a bit of output
<asac> omg
<asac> lol
<asac> mvo: update-notifier --debug-hooks
<asac> The program 'update-notifier' can be found in the following packages: * update-notifier
<mvo> glatzor: if that is not used for other stuff, I'm fine with changing that timeout. but I wonder why the other fix does not help, it should have the same effect
<mvo> asac: ;)
<mvo> seb128: could it be that you have pending security updates?
<seb128> mvo: how do I check that?
<mvo> seb128: u-m should display those on top of the updates list
<seb128> mvo: no I don't then
<asac> oh goodness. thats really bad (popping up the window :))
<mvo> pitti: sorry if that is a stupid question, but if I sru compiz-fusion-plugins-unsupported to jaunty-proposed, will it be poket copied or something like this?
<seb128> asac: talk to mpt but I think some people complained already ;-)
<mvo> asac: ...
<mvo> asac: you are just not the target user
<asac> maybe that was the reason i didnt have update-notifier installed anymore ;)?
<asac> damn
<mvo> there is a gconf key to get the previous behavior back
<asac> well. we have a notification in firefox if you have ubufox
<asac> so that shouldnt be displayed at all on default installs
<asac> guess i have to make the DisplayIf: smarter
<asac> mvo: how is the kapturl going? i still cannot require kubuntu to install ubufox due to that dependency ;)
<mvo> seb128: hm, hm. what is the value of /apps/update-manager/launch-time  for you (in gconf)?
<mvo> asac: I don't know :) hacking a bit qt would be fun  I guess
<seb128> mvo:
<seb128> $ LC_ALL=C gconftool -g /apps/update-manager/launch-time
<seb128> No value set for `/apps/update-manager/launch-time'
<mvo> asac: the code is nicely seperated now
<mvo> launch_time (sorry)
<asac> mvo: the idea would be to not use synaptic
<seb128> mvo:  launch_time = 1241003015
<seb128> if that's what you meant
<asac> mvo: could apturl just not use synaptic?
<mvo> asac: it does, but it still needs a little bit of frontend cod
<mvo> e
<asac> mvo: well. if thats just gtk it would be ok i guess
<asac> firefox requires gtk anyway
<asac> gnome-app-install,
<asac> gnome-icon-theme
<asac> why does apturl depend on that icon theme?
<asac> synaptic
<mvo> seb128: hm, that time looks very valid
<seb128> ** (update-notifier:4981): DEBUG: /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check returned 116 (security: 2)
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): update-DEBUG: is_package_system_locked: 0
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): update-DEBUG: update_apt_is_running: 0
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): inotify-DEBUG: apt_get_running=TRUE
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): inotify-DEBUG: apt_get_running=TRUE
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): inotify-DEBUG: dpkg_was_run=TRUE
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): inotify-DEBUG: dpkg_was_run=TRUE
<mvo> seb128: what does /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check print ?
<seb128> (update-notifier:4981): update-DEBUG: update_check()
<seb128> mvo: that's the debug log
<seb128> so it says security 2
<seb128> but there is none listed in update-manager
<seb128> and still I would not expect it to auto open after each install
<mvo> seb128: yes the security ones would explain it
<mvo> seb128: well, yeah, that sucks
<seb128> what is the code logic for security = 2?
<seb128> ie how can I get those 2 names ?
<seb128> update-manager lists none
<mvo> seb128: the logic is in /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check
<mvo> seb128: try adding a print into isSecurityUpgrade() before the "return True" please
<seb128> let me add debug print there
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's freetype
<seb128>      2.3.9-4.1 0
<seb128>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com karmic/main Packages
<seb128>      2.3.9-4ubuntu0.1 0
<seb128>         500 http://security.ubuntu.com jaunty-security/main Packages
<seb128>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com jaunty-updates/main Packages
<seb128>  *** 2.3.9-4build1 0
<seb128>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<seb128> so update-manager lists the karmic version
<seb128> which is a standard upgrade
<seb128> but update-notifier still count the security one
<pitti> mvo: we can, but it would clash with the version number in Debian
<pitti> mvo: so we won't
<mvo> pitti: I mean the new one with -1ubuntu1 (sorry for the version number bogus)
<mvo> seb128: let me check if I can reproduce it
<pitti> mvo: we can do that, yes
<mvo> pitti: thanks, I update the bugreport and ask for this then
<seb128> mvo: still my issue is that security upgrade or not it should stop auto open at each apt command
<seb128> mvo: didn't we decide that manual apt run would tell it that user want to do things manually?
<seb128> ie that it should not autostart at all?
<mvo> seb128: well, the spec says it should auto-open on security updates
<seb128> every time I use apt?
<mvo> seb128: yeah, it sucks, I'm not sure what is the right answer, maybe have a minimal nag interval
<seb128> that's ridiculous ...
<mvo> seb128: every time there is a security update
<seb128> well, there is a security update, I  know about it
<seb128> but I'm using apt to do some work
<mvo> I'm not defending this behavior, just saying why its there
<mvo> and I want it changed too
<seb128> well I though the timestamp thing was to not to that
<seb128> ie not auto-open if users are using apt manually?
<mvo> I'm just not sure yet how
<seb128> I though we said that auto-opening was for luser who don't use the package manager and should be doing their upgrades
<mvo> the apt timestamp stuff is only used for non-security updates, security updates are handled special
<seb128> but that we would not annoy people who are using command line tools
<seb128> hum, k
<mvo> IMO its already way too much magic
<seb128> is that a design team issue?
<seb128> ie should I talk to mpt?
<seb128> or is that a code bug?
<mvo> please file a bug
<seb128> I'm not sure what would be right
<mvo> I think I still need to tlak to mpt what he thinks should be done
<seb128> but auto-opening update-manager every 5 minutes while I'm working is not right ;-)
<seb128> ok will do
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> seb128: just install those two security updates ;)
<mvo> seb128: I agree
<seb128> I guess that one is really a corner case
<seb128> right, I would have if they were listed as security updates :-p
<seb128> I did enable karmic
<mvo> seb128: it is, u-m should still display them as security updates, I'm checking now why it does not
<seb128> and I don't want to upgrade the hundred packages there
<mvo> seb128: it shoudl be clever enough to get it right
<seb128> mvo: it displays the karmic version which is never
<seb128> newer
<seb128> which makes sense
<mvo> seb128: i.e. to detect that its karmic but there is a security thing in between, so there is a bug somewhere
<seb128> well it's just that update-manager lists the most recent version
<seb128> which makes sense
<mvo> seb128: one obvous solution would be to only auto-start on new security updates, but that would require some persistant knowledge in u-n that it currently does not have (and until now not needed)
<seb128> but maybe update-notifier should not count the security update in that case
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I will fix this bug now, the other too when I got some input from the designers
<asac> who could copy xulrunner-1.9 from jaunty-security (1.9.0.10+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.9.04.1) to karmic? just pitti or all archive admins?
<mvo> seb128: aha, I know why it does not list freetype as a security update, give me a min and I fix it in karmic (only affects people with karmic sources)
<pitti> asac: any archive admin
<pitti> asac: done
<asac> pitti: thanks.
<asac> (oops.. didnt mean to include nick)
<mvo> seb128: do you have a bugnumber yet?
<mvo> seb128: or should I file it
<seb128> mvo: bug #369198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369198 in update-notifier "update-manager auto-opened after each apt use when security updates available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369198
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> grr, managed to open twice by reclicking on launchpad being slow
<seb128> closing dup
<seb128> mvo: you're welcome
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: hm, I now put some 5 MB of data into ~/u1; the icon keeps spinning (i. e. syncing) for almost half an hour now; that's the slow performance you already noticed/reported?
<kenvandine_wk> not quite that bad
<kenvandine_wk> look at the log, ~/.cache/ubuntuone/logs/
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: I reported some 5 bugs today, but it's mostly working now
<kenvandine_wk> good
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<kenvandine_wk> i uploaded 2.4G since last night :)
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: lots of "called nothign"/"starting" cycles
<kenvandine_wk> only reported one bug today
<kenvandine_wk> how many files?
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: oh, I thought we had something like a 2MB quota
<pitti> well, it's my entire latex folder
<kenvandine_wk> 2G
<pitti> $ find ~/latex -type f| wc -l
<pitti> 310
<pitti> that shouldn't be too bad
<kenvandine_wk> i have done 1248 files since last night
<kenvandine_wk> 13 hours
<kenvandine_wk> 2.4G
<pitti> so I think it's rather a question of numbers of files than total size
<ember> pitti: sorry about brasero SRU, the bugfix fixed quite a lot of lp bugs and sj ones.
<pitti> ember: np, I didn't complain :)
<mpt> mvo, using apt is supposed to *suppress* the updates window, not make it come up instantly :-)
<tseliot> seb128: is there going to be a 2.26.2 release of gnome?
<seb128> tseliot: yes but I doubt we will get everything in jaunty
<seb128> it's not a lts
<seb128> there is a .2 and .3
<ember> pitti: cool, i have one more bugfix left with already verification done bug #345166
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345166 in tomboy "Tomboy tries to load fuse module in Jaunty...and can't" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345166
<tseliot> seb128: ok then I think we can include my patch with an SRU while upstream can include it in either .2 or .3
<seb128> tseliot: right
<seb128> tseliot: the bug is an upstream one?
<tseliot> seb128: yes, it is, I caused it. A 5 lines patch should solve it
 * tseliot is recompiling gnome-desktop
<seb128> tseliot: ok thanks
<mvo> mpt: I changed update-notifier now to show security updates at most once every N hours (current N is set to 12h, but any value will do)
<tseliot> seb128: BTW I have a gnome account now, which means that I can upload to the gnome svn (or is it git now?) but I think I'll need my changes to be approved first, right?
<seb128> tseliot: correct
<pitti> tseliot: wow, congrats
<seb128> tseliot: you need to have a maintainer setting your patch "accept-commit"
<mpt> mvo, thanks
<tseliot> pitti: thanks :-)
<seb128> you could technical commit but that would bad taste ;-)
<seb128> +be
<seb128> ie better to wait for a review and ack
<mvo> mpt: should this be a SRU? its currently only available in karmic?
<tseliot> seb128: yes, of course. I think I can bug federico about it ;)
<mpt> mvo, I don't know. How many people use apt outside of synaptic/g-a-i/update-manager, and how often?
 * dobey uses apt a lot
<dobey> :)
<mvo> mpt: I suspect its a bit of a corner case, it only happens if there are pending security updates that have not been installed
<mvo> mpt: so its currently a over agressive nag
<mpt> yeah
<seb128> mpt: the people who use apt often are the people you don't want to annoy too much
<mvo> I will mointor the bugs and decide based on that I think
<mpt> seb128, I was just about to say exactly the same thing :-)
<Ampelbein> seb128: regarding gnome-vfs: why did we drop the quilt build-dependency?
<seb128> Ampelbein: probably because I don't like to use quilt but you can keep it while doing the merge I don't expect active work on gnome-vfs
<Ampelbein> seb128: how can one not like quilt? ;-)
<seb128> Ampelbein: cdbs-edit-patch autoreconf; autoreconf; rm cache; exit
<pitti> Ampelbein: ever tried to do a 99autoreconf.patch with quilt?
<Ampelbein> find * | xargs quilt add ?
<seb128> Ampelbein: export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches; quilt push otherchange; quilt new autoreconf; find . -name | xargs add ...; autoreconf; quilt refresh; quilt pop; debuild
<seb128> Ampelbein: see which one is easier? ;-)
<seb128> Ampelbein: same with "drop a svn diff in the patches directory"
<tseliot> seb128: my patch works :-)
<pitti> quilt add sucks rocks through a needle, in general it's quite okay
<seb128> not to mention the "ups I forgot to quilt add something, how to I undo ... remove directory start from scratch"
<pitti> bzr looms are better for that
<Ampelbein> seb128, pitti ok, i see your point.
<seb128> tseliot: you rock!
<pitti> Ampelbein: I'm quite okay with quilt, but this particular bit drives me mad :)
<asac> dropping the change to not create patches link on top level was a fault imo
<asac> adding the change ;)
<asac> it was done in debian because of new source format ... which i never understood :)
<asac> (all about quilt ;))
<pitti> $ devkit-disks --mount /devices/sdb1
<pitti> Mounted /devices/sdb1 at /media/Pitti USB
<pitti> yohoo
<mvo> glatzor: is PK acting on more than the update-list signal? is it also monitoring other files. I wonder why the fix for #257639 is not working
<pitti> dobey: out of interest, what does U1 use hal for?
<dobey> hal?
<pitti> dobey: ubuntuone-storage-protocol and -client depend on it
<dobey> oh, the apport hook used it, but it doesn't any more, so we could remove that explicit dep i guess
<pitti> ah, splendid
<pitti> dobey: I'll file a bug
<pitti> dobey: thanks
<dobey> sure
<glatzor> mvo, no. there is only one further trigger which also emits the StatusHasChagned signal after resuming the computer
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I have the U1 client working, how do I share stuff and what not?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> nice to see you guys
 * pitti didn't figure out sharing yet either, the "share" button is grayed out for me in the web ui
<seb128> hello rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
 * rickspencer3 copying all my work documents into my U1 folder
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i think you can only share a top level
<kenvandine_wk> that is all i have done so far
<kenvandine_wk> i am syncing a load of crap now... so don't want to mess with it until it is done
<kenvandine_wk> i have been syncing photos all night :)
<kenvandine_wk> and not a single traceback!
<kenvandine_wk> but it is saturating my uplink... sp my internets are slow :/
<rickspencer3> hey!
<kenvandine_wk> hopefully that will be done by the time i finish my openweek session... which starts in 9m
<rickspencer3> someone shared files with me, and it's not pr0n!
<kenvandine_wk> haha
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: disappointed?
<kenvandine_wk> :)
<rickspencer3> actually, there is a folder called "spanky" in there in
 * rickspencer3 afraid to look
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<seb128> mvo: could you look at bug #369282?
<pitti> -rwxr-xr-x root/root    161368 2009-04-29 16:50 ./usr/bin/palimpsest
<pitti> WTH
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369282 in gnome-games "gnome-games gives an error while upgrading" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369282
<pitti> to your native English speakers, how would you denote "palimsest"?
<mclasen> ...psest
<mclasen> missing a p there
<pitti> right, sorry
<pitti> never heard the term before, and dict.leo.org is quite useless
<Amaranth> pitti: Isn't it a made up word?
<mclasen> its a bit medieval...
<mclasen> its a name for a document that has been written over several times
<mclasen> like monks used to do
<mpt> It's not a common word
 * Amaranth wonders what that has to do with audio mixing
<mclasen> Amaranth: nothing. but disk (re-)formatting is in some sense analogous to what those monks used to do
<Amaranth> oh, I thought that was the name of the pulseaudio mixer
<Amaranth> is that the gnome-disk-utility thing using devicekit?
<mclasen> yes
<pitbullthe1st_> whats this channel for? (Sorry for being dumb)
<mpt> pitbullthe1st_, discussing the development of most of the graphical bits in Ubuntu
<tseliot> seb128: my patch is in the gnome bugzilla: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=580754
<glatzor> mvo, have you found a way to reproduce the error?
<pitbullthe1st_> O ok so not for non coders like me then
<ubottu> Gnome bug 580754 in libgnome-desktop "Gnome desktop should re-use the previous screen size when needs_reprobe=FALSE" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitbullthe1st_> thanks
<seb128> tseliot: thanks
<mpt> pitbullthe1st_, for the non-graphical bits, see #ubuntu-devel. For Kubuntu, see #kubuntu-devel. For user suppport, see #ubuntu.
<pitbullthe1st_> ok thanks
<mclasen> tseliot: federico and I fixed exactly that bug last night...
<glatzor> mvo, a simple "os.fork()
<glatzor> c = apt.Cache()" seems to work without any problems
<mvo> glatzor: I have not :/ I was even doing a "while True: c = apt.Cache()" in parallel with a few tasks without luck
<mvo> seb128: woah, that bug is pretty impressive
<seb128> mvo: you think so? ;-)
<tseliot> mclasen: do you refer to this? http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-desktop/commit/?id=3f811a611185a3bdbb6b6d4c19590bd26ae1dc82
<mclasen> tseliot: yes
<tseliot> mclasen: it's not enough. Because you still don't have the information that you need and you'll get a screen size which is 0 x 0
<tseliot> mclasen: believe me, I caused the bug and I know how to fix it ;)
<mclasen> tseliot: well, what I committed certainly fixed my symptoms
<seb128> mclasen: do you have your change applied?
<seb128> mclasen: can you try to change to a lower resolution, ack the change, and try to change back to higher one
<seb128> without closing the capplet between the changes
<dobey> mvo: i am having some weird behavior with apturl...
<mclasen> no, my laptop claims to only support one resolution...
<tseliot> mclasen: how can you get the right information without calling XRRGetScreenSizeRange() ?
<seb128> mclasen: ok, I will try later thanks anyway ;-)
<mclasen> tseliot: the right ranges are already in the GnomeRRScreen struct
<dobey> mvo: if i add a ppa in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/foo.list or something, and then do xdg-open "apt://package-in-new-ppa?refresh=yes" it doesn't work, but if i immediately do the xdg-open a second time, it works... like it's not re-reading the cache properly or something
<mclasen> tseliot: but federico thought that some other fixes might be necessary; so it is probably best to discuss that with him
<mvo> seb128: I wonder if its something like a wubi install or an other strange FS
<tseliot> mclasen: no, they are no longer there because screen_info_new() calls fill_out_screen_info() with a half-empty GnomeRRScreen struct
<tseliot> mclasen: sure, I'll bug him ;)
<mclasen> not in my case...
<seb128> mvo: feel free to ask on the bug ;-)
<mvo> dobey: oh, let me check the code. that might be possible that there is a bug there
<mvo> seb128: I did and reassigned to you as its cleary a gtk bug
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> seb128: :P no, reassigned to dpkg
<dobey> mvo: yeah i'm looking at the code, but i don't really understand it :)
<seb128> did I say that we need an installation issues component? ;-)
<seb128> mvo: danke
<mvo> its called "dpkg"
 * mvo hides
<mvo> and we really need someone deeply faimilar with it
<seb128> let's make Keybuk be responsive for this one and all the bugs there ;-)
<mvo> dobey: yep, thanks for the report, fixing it now
 * Keybuk looks forward to how you intend to make him responsive <g>
 * mvo gets some popcorn 
<dobey> mvo: great! any chance we can get a release/update too? :)
<mvo> dobey: yes, I just need a bug about it
<dobey> mvo: ok, will file
<mvo> dobey: the fix is pretty trivial
 * seb128 sends the german mafia to convince Keybuk
<seb128> mvo: you are in charge of that now ;-)
 * mvo starts making weeping noises
<dobey> Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?
<Keybuk> dobey: Ja! .. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
<mvo> lol
<dobey> heh
<dobey> mvo: bug #369324
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/369324/+text)
<mvo> dobey: thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have posted a new SRU for system-config-printer, bug 365329. Can you approve it? Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 365329 in system-config-printer "HP LaserJet P1005 (using hplip) fails to print in 8.04 and 9.04" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365329
<pitti> tkamppeter: does it really need to be fixed in three packages, or are the other package tasks invalid?
<crevette> seb128, would you be interested with gnome-bluetooth 2.27.x ?
<seb128> crevette: for karmic yes
<crevette> seb128, of course, how should I do to replace bluez-gnome in the package ?
<crevette> just Replace ?
<seb128> Replaces is for when there is file conflicts
<seb128> I though they were parallel installable?
<asac> Conflicts/Replaces/Provides
<crevette> no
<seb128> are you sure?
<crevette> the binary names are the same
<crevette> not 100% but around 90%
<crevette> :)
<crevette> you can try it for free https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive/ppa :)
<asac> http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package
<seb128> asac: it's not a rename
<asac> seb128: if its supposed to replace it ;)
<seb128> crevette: they should Conflicts, Replaces
<seb128> asac: it's a fork
<crevette> okay
<crevette> thanks for the tip
<asac> seb128: do we still want to support the other package?
<asac> otherwise you can treat it like a rename packaging wise imo
<crevette> I would ask to move bluez-gnome to universe, because I don't think it'll wont be updated
<seb128> asac: I don't know enough about bluetooth to know
<asac> k;)
<seb128> I think that's on the UDS topic lists though
<crevette> ah
<asac> yeah so if both stay in the archive jkust conflicts/replaces and adjusting seeds once we want to change the default i guess
<crevette> asac, exactly
<asac> crevette: but why is it necessary to ship conflicting files?
<crevette> necessary ?
<crevette> you mean I could change the binary name ?
<asac> no. just wonder why upstream did that. but guess its just compatibility thing
<crevette> gnome-bluetooth is a fork and intend to replace bluez-gnome because the upstream developer was not active
<crevette> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bluetooth-stack
<crevette> asac, you're the guy on irt
<asac> i know that i somehow ended up there ;)
<asac> thats why i asked :)
<crevette> because of conman?
<crevette> does it fit in the spec ?
<asac> no clue and no comment ;)
<crevette> okay
<asac> i dont think connman needs a spec either ;)
<crevette> why ubuntu is looking for alternative stack ?
<seb128> it's not?
<asac> well. connman is in the archive. its just not ready for real use ;)
<asac> i just dont see what a connman spec would contain ;)
<seb128> bbl
<crevette> it used to have affix tack apparently
<asac> other than "lets try to get latest connman available in karmic "
<crevette> asac, so back to my package I should use the method B from you rlink ?
<asac> crevette: for now just create a normal package and set conflicts/replaces on bluez-gnome
<asac> e.g. dont provide the transitional package
<crevette> okay, so it's I 've already done in my ppa package
<crevette> I should also modify gnome-user-share which recommend bluez-gnome
<asac> crevette: so gnome-bluetooth already exists in jaunty?
<crevette> If I could have a 30 hours day, 8 hours to do my day boring job, and 8 to do the thing I want
<asac> apt-cache rdepends gnome-bluetooth
<asac> oiops;)
<crevette> asac, yes, but version < 2.xx served for another purpose
<crevette> it used to be an obex file server, but now it provides tools to manage bluez
<asac> crevette: what happens to the rdepends?
<asac> seems to be just gpodder
<crevette> gpodder should depends on gnome-user-share
<asac> crevette: is gnome-user-share also changed?
<crevette> need to
<asac> crevette: no i mean ... did it get a new upstream purpose ;) ... similar to gnome-bluetooth
<crevette> ah now, it still a file sharing over WebDAV and bluetooth
<crevette> s/still/remains/
<crevette> the scope could move to something wider but later I think
<crevette> asac, you're afraid of a moving target?
<crevette> need to go
<crevette> byz
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, welcome back
<kenvandine_wk> i rebooted before lunch and walked away :)
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, I was afraid that U1 synced you over into the cloud
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<kenvandine_wk> it seems to have lost 400M of my data somewhere though :)
<kenvandine_wk> doing a diff now
<kenvandine_wk> which is very slow for 3G
<jcastro> didrocks: ~30 minutes until your session!
<didrocks> jcastro: yes, ready. Thanks! :)
 * pitti chuckles at gvfs' 90relibtoolize.patch which patches itself
<dobey> heh
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i just shared something with you... sharing is fixed now btw
<Ampelbein> seb128: the gnome-vfs merge is taking a bit longer, my guess is i'll be ready in 2-3 hours. my home-dsl line is down and i'm stuck with 9.6k/s mobile connection. this is no fun.
<chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - ouch
<seb128> Ampelbein: there is no hurry karmic just opened
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: yeah. that's what i said ;-) at least it's free.
<seb128> and buildds are busy for some weeks with the initial sync ;-)
<chrisccoulson> why is karmic not broken yet? no fun ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: did you dist-upgrade to it? ;-)
<seb128> I ran the initial debian sync today, some thousand updates
<chrisccoulson> i did, but it's still working here
<chrisccoulson> only in a VM so far though ;)
<seb128> give some times to the buildds to do their work ;-)
<chrisccoulson> ooh, the save session button in gnome-session-properties works again with the debian version
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: yes, it's a patch that I have to review :-)
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks vuntz:)
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - some users are enabling session saving in the preferences, then disabling it sometime later on, but get confused that it doesn't clear their ~/.config/gnome-session/saved-session when they do that. is that the intended behaviour, and should there be a "restore default" button in the preferences to clear the saved session?
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: it's semi-broken right now. It will get fixed later
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: (ie, this behavior will change)
<robby_> Hello
<robby_> Anyone here
<Rue-kun> Hello anyone out there?
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: what's up?
<Rue-kun> I had a question about the kickoff menu
<pitti> good night everyone!
<Rue-kun> THe favorites menu that shows up. Is there a way to move it hide it?
<rickspencer3> 'night pitti
<rickspencer3> don't forget that if the barrels land in the oil drum they can climb ladders!
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: I'm wondering if you are looking for #ubuntu for support?
 * pitti remembers the old C64 days
<pitti> *wave*
<rickspencer3> but which favorites menu do you refer to?
<Rue-kun> Ok in Kubuntu the little start menu type thing
<rickspencer3> oh
<seb128> pitti: 'night
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: you're welcome to hang out here, but unfortunately, we won't be able to answer that too well
<rickspencer3> if you go to #kubuntu, you should be able to discuss there and get answers
<rickspencer3> this room is more for people who are developing Ubuntu itself
<Rue-kun> Ok thank you rickspencer3 sorry ^_^
<rickspencer3> (again, you're more than welcome to hang out, though)
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: no apologies necessary
<rickspencer3> I'm glad you're using Kubuntu, it's a kick ass desktop
<rickspencer3> :)
<Rue-kun> It gets the job done
<Rue-kun> Oh oh I have a questions that the devlopment team might be able to answer ^_^
<Rue-kun> Did you ever fix the network manager bug?
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: which bug do you mean?
<Rue-kun> Where it wont allow you to keep static ip addesses unless you uninstall the manager then manually write files?
<rickspencer3> Rue-kun: that's a kubuntu bug, I believe
<rickspencer3> and I believe there were release notes for how to work around it
<rickspencer3> a good question for #kubuntu I would guess
<Rue-kun> No it happened on my ubuntu compter idk if kubuntu works
<Rue-kun> The final comand was "suso nano etc/network/interfaces"
<Ampelbein> Rue-kun: do you mean bug 185584?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 185584 in adept "Adept manager: deadlock using "manage repositories"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185584
<Ampelbein> erm bug 185854
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/185854/+text)
<Ampelbein> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/185854
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 185854 in gnome-system-tools "Setting static IP in Network Settings doesn't produce correct data" [High,Fix released]
<Rue-kun> Yes
<Ampelbein> fixed since 14.04.2008
<Rue-kun> My teacher will be delighted to hear that
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I saved a file in the shared folder
<rickspencer3> can you see it?
<dobey> doh, mvo is gone
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: let me check
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: no...
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i have filed several bugs this afternoon related to sharing
<rickspencer3> I created it in gedit, and saved it to the share folder
<rickspencer3> but when I look at the folder in nautilus, it's not there
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: did you have any trouble creatin git?
<kenvandine_wk> creating it
<rickspencer3> but I can close and reopen the file from within gedit
<kenvandine_wk> humm
<kenvandine_wk> verify the path
<kenvandine_wk> and look at ~/.cache/ubuntuone/logs/syncdaemon.log
<rickspencer3> I saved it into Shared With Me/Ubunto One from System Users
<kenvandine_wk> syncing is completely busted for me atm... waiting for a new build with a bug fix
<rickspencer3> Shared With Me/Ubunto One from System User
<kenvandine_wk> oh
<kenvandine_wk> it should be "Desktop Team shared from Ken VanDine"
<kenvandine_wk> something like that
<kenvandine_wk> that was read only for pitti
<rickspencer3> nothing says that
<kenvandine_wk> and he forced it
<rickspencer3> it's all "System User"
<kenvandine_wk> humm
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: you saw the Test.txt file?
<rickspencer3> no
<kenvandine_wk> what's in your "Shared with me" folder?
<rickspencer3> geez, where is it mounted?
<kenvandine_wk> ~/Ubuntu One/Shared With Me
<rickspencer3> never mind, found it
<rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Ubuntu One/Shared With Me$ ls
<rickspencer3> Canonical from System User  Company Information from System User  Ubuntu One from System User
<kenvandine_wk> it's not a mount point anymore
<kenvandine_wk> ok, you aren't seeing my share
<rickspencer3> here
<rickspencer3> dr-xr-xr-x 3 rick rick 4096 2009-04-29 07:42 Canonical from System User
<rickspencer3> dr-xr-xr-x 2 rick rick 4096 2009-04-29 07:41 Company Information from System User
<rickspencer3> drwxr-xr-x 7 rick rick 4096 2009-04-29 13:37 Ubuntu One from System User
<rickspencer3> easier
<rickspencer3> is it possible that U1 is not running for me?
<kenvandine_wk> possible
<kenvandine_wk> or
<kenvandine_wk> just not syncing
<kenvandine_wk> which is the problem i have now
<kenvandine_wk> it synced 2.6G of data
<kenvandine_wk> then decided it wasn't gonna do any more ;)
<rickspencer3> heh
<kenvandine_wk> not even trying to sync... corruption in some metadata
<rickspencer3> I think the lock file was not deleted properly, so it's not running for me
<kenvandine_wk> they are working on getting me a fix now
<kenvandine_wk> pitti had that problem
<kenvandine_wk> filed a bug about it
<kenvandine_wk> so whack the lock file
<rickspencer3> but I can't tell where the lock file is
<kenvandine_wk> ~/.cache/ubuntuone/syncdaemon/.lock
<kenvandine_wk> something like that
 * rickspencer3 looks
<kenvandine_wk> make sure syncdaemon isn't running
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I deleted the lock file, and then quit U1, and restarted it
<rickspencer3> seems to be moving now
<rickspencer3> I see your folder now
<kenvandine_wk> woot
<kenvandine_wk> try to edit Test.txt
<rickspencer3> the folder is read onlyu
<kenvandine_wk> right
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> i filed that bug already :/
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> chmod the folder?
<kenvandine_wk> about 30m ago
<kenvandine_wk> you can
<kenvandine_wk> i think it should work
<rickspencer3> *sigh* I didn't chmod recursively :)
<rickspencer3> I edited it
<rickspencer3> (the Test.tx that is)
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<rickspencer3> I see how my .lock file got screwed up
<rickspencer3> you can run multiple instances of U1
<rickspencer3> that's probably a bug
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> ok... so do this
<kenvandine_wk> u1sync --diff ~/Ubuntu\ One/Shared\ With\ Me
<rickspencer3> will do, but it seems to be working now
<kenvandine_wk> not syncing your changes out
<kenvandine_wk> or i don't think it is
<rickspencer3> ok, gave it access to my keyring
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: was the command supposed to return?
<kenvandine_wk> files that need to be synced
<kenvandine_wk> nothing?
<rickspencer3> it popped a dialog asking for access to my key ring, then blocked at the CL
<kenvandine_wk> it takes time
<rickspencer3> k
<kenvandine_wk> and no progress
<rickspencer3> the log file does not appear to be changing, and the icon is not moving
<kenvandine_wk> i am betting it will say your version of the file differs
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> i need to run though... time to get the kids to soccer practice
<rickspencer3> ok
<kenvandine_wk> will check tonight to see if the new build fixes some of this stuff
<rickspencer3> I can help more tomorrow
<kenvandine_wk> good
<rickspencer3> it *looks* very good
<kenvandine_wk> i'll ping you in the morning
<rickspencer3> very polished look and feel
 * calc will be trying to upload OOo 3.1.0~rc2-1ubuntu1 today if he can get it working... debian guy forgot to commit his change so i also have to diff his debian dir to the debian bzr repo
<Ampelbein> harr. back again on 16Mbit/s. now i'm gonna rock!
<chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - that's good news
<chrisccoulson> that's faster than my connection
<chrisccoulson> my broadband dropped to 3.6kbps a few weeks ago, after i told my ISP i was leaving them
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: whoa. you should cancel your contract... oh wait ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh. i'm glad that i'm rid of them now
<Ampelbein> i can't complain here. 16mbit down, 1mbit upstream, no limit for 29 Euro/month
<Ampelbein> today was only the second time this year that the line went down.
<Ampelbein> but it's usually up after 3-10 hours, so...
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that sounds pretty good. is that cable or dsl?
<Ampelbein> dsl
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-30
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: welcome back, glad your on the mend
<rickspencer3> thanks for the great call, I'm going to log off in a moment
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: no problem
<MagicFab> hi all
<MagicFab> how do I *disable* update check from command line ? (same as system >admin>update manager>settings...>updates tab>automatic update>uncheck [ ] check for updates) ?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bryce: now I know what you meant with exchanging bugs, just reported my first UXA hang to upstream :/
<pitti> bryce: thanks a lot for preparing the -intel jaunty patch!
<pitti> bryce: perhaps we should put it into -proposed immediately, to get some more widespread testing?
<bryce> pitti: sure
<pitti> bryce: I can do that for you (plus reenable compiz in -proposed), so that you can get to sleep
<bryce> pitti: thanks, _greatly_ appreciated
 * pitti hugs bryce
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pitti
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: hi guys
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell: how was the bug fighting today?
<robert_ancell> I got caught on a wild goose chase - I had a quick look at bug 350683 but it seems to be something weird going on in GTK+. Instead of adding a border to the 22x22 icon (as it does for other icons) it scales down the 32x32
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350683 in ekiga "launcher icon looks fuzzy" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350683
<seb128> the solution for such issues is to have the right variant
 * robert_ancell has been through the bowels of GTK+/glib/gio and boy does it have a lot of indirection
<robert_ancell> if you create a 24x24 icon it still doesn't work...
<seb128> did you update the icon cache?
<didrocks> hi robert_ancell & seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<robert_ancell> seb128: updated icon cache, menus, restarted gnome-panel
<seb128> robert_ancell: that doesn't make sense
<robert_ancell> seb128: no, you're right.  I just tried it again and now it works...
<seb128> robert_ancell: anyway let's not spend too much efforts on small graphical glitch
<seb128> robert_ancell: ah ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: did you manage to investigate the rhythmbox codec issue?
<robert_ancell> seb128: well I learnt a lot about icon loading anyway
<robert_ancell> seb128: still haven't found the cause
<seb128> that's not wasted effort then ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: what does gst-typefind says for the buggy file?
<robert_ancell> application/x-id3
<seb128> ok, I guess the bug is not that trivial ;-)
<seb128> what else did you look at today?
<robert_ancell> been looking at ekiga on the request of rick
<seb128> specific issues? or just trying to get the bug list under control?
<seb128> I need to speak to rick, first compiz and new ekiga, soon you will have no free slot for GNOME ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: getting the hang of the bugs.  I started trying to fix a bug but my ekiga segfaulted for an entirely different reason :)
<robert_ancell> good point - what are the gnome packages most in need of love at the moment?
<seb128> robert_ancell: bug triage wise or bug fixing?
<robert_ancell> seb128: fixing
<pitti> some aren't even maintained in the first place
<pitti> I was hoping that kenvandine_wk fell in love with ekiga enough to take that
<seb128> robert_ancell: nothing too urgent, jaunty is quite in shape and karmic just opened
<seb128> robert_ancell: totem and gstreamer could do with some upstreaming of issues though
<seb128> robert_ancell: so keep the work you have started there ;-)
<robert_ancell> are there any gstreamer experts here?  I've been doing some gstreamer work but its a complex codebase to get into so been making slow progress
<pitti> robert_ancell: slomo is maintaining them quite actively
<pitti> just not online right now
<robert_ancell> pitti: thanks, will look him up for questioning :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: oh btw tomorrow is a national holiday there
<seb128> so I will not be around, or not early in the morning at least
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, will see you next week then
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm still there for the day though ;-)
<seb128> I think you already have some bugs on your list and if you are bored with those triaging some desktop bugs is welcome
<robert_ancell> It'll be Friday night - I wont!!
<seb128> hehe
<robert_ancell> seb128: question regarding the gtk icon cache - I built a new ekiga with the new icon and installed it but that doesn't trigger the icon cache?  Is there a way to make apt trigger that?
<seb128> robert_ancell: dh_icons should be used in the debian rules
<seb128> which would add the cache update to /var/lib/dpkg/info/ekiga.postinst
<robert_ancell> it's missing... I'll fix that up tomorrow then
<seb128> though hicolor seems to be on a not-cache list for some reason
<seb128> I need to investigate that
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: everyone:  Do you know if the codec installer is part of the standard rhythmbox?
<seb128> robert_ancell: yes, we have no ubuntu change
<pitti> seb128: oh, I thought it was a local ubuntu feature
<seb128> pitti: easy codec install in gstreamer has been canonical sponsored work in gutsy?
<seb128> but it has landed upstream
<seb128> gnome-app-install is the ubuntu part
<seb128> the upstream code allow to call any codec installer you want
<seb128> or gnome-codec-install now
<robert_ancell> seb128: so is it triggered through rhythmbox or gstreamer?
<seb128> robert_ancell: rhythmbox uses the gstreamer feature
<seb128> robert_ancell: see shell/rb-missing-plugins.c
<robert_ancell> seb128: thanks, been looking through that#
<pitti> seb128: ah, right, I remember
<robert_ancell> off now, see you guys later
<seb128> robert_ancell: have fun, see you next week
<huats> hello everyone !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hey seb128 :)
<asac> anyone running karmic yet?
<asac> in case: xulrunner-1.9 --gre-version ... does that work there?
<pitti> asac: o/
<pitti> $ xulrunner-1.9 --gre-version
<pitti> 1.9.0.10
<asac> hmm
<asac> odd i have someone who gets bus-errors
<asac> ;)
<asac> thanks for confirming
<pitti> asac: amd64 here
<crevette> huats, hey
<huats> hello crevette
 * pitti uploads the devicekit/gnome-disk-utility/gvfs-devkit crack into desktop ppa
<pitti> still a bit rough, but works
<asac> pitti: so how would one use devicekit to get info about wifi/modem devices?
<asac> is it just udev through dbus?
<pitti> asac: right now you can't
<asac> ;)
<asac> whats the plan in future?
<pitti> asac: there's no devkit-network just yet
<pitti> asac: I'm not sure, but probably just asking udev
<asac> yeah
<pitti> I don't see the value of having another daemon for that
<pitti> i. e. a devkit-network _and_ networkmanager
<pitti> since NM is already a d-bus service for net devices
<asac> pitti: right. but NM folks say they want to move away from hal to devkit
<pitti> asac: but about the plan, you tell me :)
<pitti> devkit -s net
<pitti> that works quite fine
<pitti> but of course DK itself doesn't offer special services what to _do_ with net devices, you can just enumerate and monitor their appearance/disappearance
<asac> indeed
<asac> yeah. enumeration and monitoring is all NM needs
<asac> so seems its just a udev wrapper on that level?
<pitti> asac: yes, DK itself is just a shim to make the udev db available over d-bus
<pitti> devicekit will probably disappear entirely sooner or later
<pitti> in favor of dk-* talking to udev directly
<asac> cool. so i think i understood the mystery then ;)
<pitti> there's pulse, network-manager, and X.org input
<pitti> if we can solve these three in karmic, we can stop shipping hal by default
<pitti> GNOME seems to go well, I played with git snapshots and patches, and I have it running without hal/gnome-mount now
<pitti> still pretty rough, and currently breaks libgphoto, cdda, and obexftp backends, but we still have time
<pitti> gnome-power-manager/dk-power is in karmic already
<asac> we should definitly keep hal for another round ... modemmanager which we want to use (if not in main distro, definitly in oem builds) probably wont be ready for non-hal
<pitti> asac: oh, I'm not saying that we can remove the package ;)
<asac> ;)
<asac> kk
<pitti> asac: there are hundreds of packages depending on hal
<asac> hehe
<pitti> asac: it would just be nice to throw it out of the standard install
<asac> yeah. lets see. maybe modemmanager will get a hardware detection re-write soon. have to check that
<pitti> so if you install modemmanager, it'll pull in hal, but that's fine
<pitti> hal can coexist just fine with dk-*
<pitti> (anything else would be sheer madness)
<asac> yeah. thats all just guess work anyway. personally i would prefer to have modemmanager by default even; but then, it should at least go to the same approach that NM currently uses: udev rules
<pitti> asac: if we don't manage to throw it out in karmic, so be it
<pitti> asac: but with lazy lobster being LTS (most probably), I'd like to do the painful transitions rather earlier
<crevette> asac, just write the patch for moemmanager to use dk instead of hal :)
<crevette> it is so simple :)
<asac> pitti: so in hal we label/mark devices ... now in udev we also label/mark devices somehow (e.g. by adding "env" entries). does devicekit have his own label/mark config format?
<asac> or will it just use whatever udev adds to env?
<pitti> asac: no, dk doesn't store anything itself
<asac> ok. so really just a projection of udev db.
<pitti> you can use it to store properties in the udev db (I think)
<asac> crevette: indeed. not really sure why devicekit is better than libudev though
<pitti> asac: that's indeed the reason why it will disappear again
<asac> but probably just the "its modern because its dbus" ;)
<pitti> asac: talking to udev directly is just fine
<crevette> I was kidding, but honnestly I don't know API of udev /hal /dk so I can't help
<pitti> asac: if you are a daemon running as root, you can use udev
<pitti> asac: but if you are an user session program, you can't (since the netlink socket is root only)
<asac> very true
<crevette> modemmanager is the piece of code to work with NM for modem right?
<asac> yeah
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~modemmanager/+archive/ppa
<pitti> seb128: mind if I delete some cruft from desktop ppa?
<seb128> pitti: no, feel free to clean anything you see as outdated or not useful
<pitti> seb128: the ones which have newer versions in jaunty
<seb128> sure, I trust you to clean things which make sense ;-)
<asac> i think PPAs should not display those by default that are superseeded in real archive ;)
<pitti> ok, done
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. i finished working on the merge of gnome-vfs, bug 369395. but i do have a question about it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/161314/ - is the result of list-missing. What can I do about that? From the *.install files I see the doc-files should have been installed to the -dev package. This is confirmed by looking at the package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369395 in gnome-vfs "Please merge gnome-vfs 2.24.1-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369395
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, they are probably just moved to an another directory?
<Ampelbein> seb128: or could be the utils.mk list-missing hook be flawed? because the files are installed but list-missing doesn't seem to notice.
<seb128> Ampelbein: they are installed in the exact same directory than the debian/tmp one?
<Ampelbein> seb128: not exactly the same.
<seb128> ok, so that's why they are listed
<Ampelbein> ah, now i think i understand.
<seb128> this code compare debian/tmp with all binaries
<seb128> it's not clever enough to track renames and moves
<seb128> that's why the schemas are listed too
<seb128> they are moved to usr
<Ampelbein> ok.
<Ampelbein> another problem: the /usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libnntp.so is not installed and looking at previous releases never was installed because it's missing in libgnomevfs2-0.install: debian/tmp/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/lib{network,file,tar,computer,gzip,vfs-test,sftp,dns-sd}.so - should I fix that?
<seb128> look to the changelog that might be on purpose
<Ampelbein> seb128: only mention was a changelog entry from 2004.
<Ampelbein> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/161328/
<seb128> right and gnome-vfs didn't change since
<seb128> don't change that
<Ampelbein> ok
<asac> karmic has gcc 4.4 right?
<Ampelbein> asac: gcc (Ubuntu 4.4.0-0ubuntu5) 4.4.0
<asac> gcc --version
<asac> please
 * asac thinks about upgrading
<Ampelbein> seb128: final question: while applying the patches, patch complained about offsets in some debian-patches. I figure I should not update them to apply cleanly as to not create additional diff?
<seb128> Ampelbein: right
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, then I think the debdiff is good for review.
<Ampelbein> thanks for answering my questions.
<seb128> thank you for working on the update
<seb128> does anybody how to add color to a wiki table for a row?
<vuntz> dobey: hey, so I tested your intltool patch
<vuntz> dobey: works fine, except one little thing...
 * vuntz creates a small patch
<james_w> seb128: check the bugday pages
<james_w> seb128: it's something like <bgcolor="#dddddd">
<seb128> james_w: thanks
<vuntz> dobey: if test -h $script -o ! -s $script; then rm -f $script; fi
<vuntz> dobey: instead of if test -h $script; then rm -f $script; fi
<vuntz> dobey: (to remove empty files that were created with touch in the past)
<asac> gnome-web-photo ... will this use webkit in karmic?
 * asac reviews xulrunner rdepends
<seb128> asac: ask chpe
<asac> k
<seb128> asac: you are trying to move things away from using xul? ;-)
<asac> i could spend lots of time on webkit if i wouldnt need to do lengthy backports
<asac> actually i dont mind whether its webkit or the new mozilla embedding api
<asac> just as long as our rdepends dont touch into the moving xulrunner apis ;)
<asac> but i guess it will take ages or a bunch of archive removals to get there
<seb128> asac: GNOME is moving slowly to webkit
<seb128> epiphany-webkit will be default this cycle
<asac> thats a good start. do you know which apps are lagging behind for webkit support?
<asac> i think that helping out there would be better spend than doing backports forever ;)
<seb128> asac: evolution? ;-) but it doesn't use xulrunner either, just gtkhtml
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: the components in orange, you looking for people to pick those up?
<seb128> asac: otherwise I think that everything in the GNOME desktop (ie what we have on the CD) is webkit ready
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: those are the components not maintained actively right now yes
<kenvandine_wk> i spend quite a bit of time in f-spot... would be happy to take that
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: I'm going to add some extra colors
<seb128> I just need to decide on which ones ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<seb128> I'm wondering if "green" for all the things actively worked is useful
<seb128> or would rather make too much color
<kenvandine_wk> yeah... seems kind of silly since most things should be worked on
<seb128> and I'm pondering a light color for "easy things"
<kenvandine_wk> i would focus on highlighting the things that are different
<seb128> ie things which are mostly done by debian where we should look to bugs every now and then
<seb128> and which are not moving too much upstream either
<seb128> the alacarte sort of thing
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> makes sense
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: ok, I added some yellow lines now
<asac> willl archive refuse to accept binaries when there are NEW for some archs? like https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xcb-util/0.3.4-1
<asac>  libcairo2-dev: Depends: libcairo2 (= 1.8.6-1ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<asac>                  Depends: libxcb-render-util0-dev but it is not installable
<seb128> asac: they will go to NEW
<seb128> asac: and it could be that they have been accepted to universe but that's a main package trying to use those
<asac> hmm
<asac> but they are DONE except for one arch
<james_w> only ppc is in NEW
<asac> yeah. so will the others DONE go to NEW or have they been newed and wait for ppc?
<asac> (to get to ACCEPTED)
<james_w> they should be in the archive
<james_w> libxcb-render-util0-dev |    0.3.4-1 |        karmic | hppa
<james_w> libxcb-render-util0-dev |    0.3.4-1 | karmic/universe | amd64, armel, i386, lpia
<asac> ok so they need to be put to main?
<james_w> sounds like it
<james_w> was your paste from a build log?
<asac> yes: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26174824/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.xulrunner-1.9_1.9.0.10%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<james_w> yeah, so it's a component mismatch
<asac> but its not a new depends of cairo-dev
<seb128> re
<james_w> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt has it
<asac> so they were demoted?
<james_w> possibly
<asac> who did that? sounds like an accident
<seb128> asac: binaries go to universe by default
<seb128> have those ever been in main?
<asac> seb128: well. that package isnt new afaics
<asac> seb128: libcairo2-dev depends on that package in jaunty
<seb128> which one?
<asac> ibxcb1-dev, libxcb-render0-dev, libxcb-render-util0-dev
<asac> libxcb1-dev, libxcb-render0-dev, libxcb-render-util0-dev
<dobey> vuntz: cool, thanks
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> asac: on what arch do you have the issue?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> pitti: wb
<seb128> so
<seb128> pitti, rickspencer3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Components first version
<rickspencer3> hey pitti, seb128, asac
<seb128> orange = need extra work
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128!
<seb128> yellow = easy components
<seb128> white = everything else
<rickspencer3> kick ass!
<pitti> seb128: that's excellent, thanks!
<seb128> we don't have most bindings there though
<rickspencer3> does "debian" mean you feel ilt does not require a Ubuntu maintainer?
<seb128> ie *gnome{java,mm,perl}
<seb128> rickspencer3: no, it means most of the work is done by debian (ie we are on sync)
<pitti> can we add tracker to that list? (or demote it)
<seb128> pitti: that's an open list, please add it as orange
 * pitti does
<pitti> chrisccoulson might want to put his name there :)
<seb128> I used the desktop-bugs package report for a base
<seb128> and the team is not subscribe to tracker
<seb128> (and some others that I added)
<pitti> seb128: desktop-bugs is basically "needs maintainer", right?
<seb128> pitti: no, "desktop-bugs" and white is basically "need somebody to look to bugs every now and then and those components are covered"
<pitti> oh, ok
<seb128> pitti: ie those which I feel pedro and I and bug triager cover correctly
<pitti> I have it as yellow/desktop-bugs right now
<seb128> nobody assigned specifically but we do the job
<seb128> pitti: which one?
<pitti> tracker (just added)
<seb128> orange would be better?
<pitti> sorry, I meant "orange"
<seb128> ok good
<pitti> done
<seb128> pitti: so right, "desktop-bugs" is ... team is trying to do what it can but nobody is specifically assigned
<seb128> when desktop-bugs is not there is that we slack totally on it
<seb128> though desktop-bugs could be added on some easy components lines
<seb128> as said that's a rough first version
<seb128> I'm open to suggestions for changes ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128, good work on that
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<rickspencer3> seb128: those are package names, right? So it would be trivial for me to use launchpad lib to get bug status on those?
<seb128> rickspencer3: yes
<seb128> rickspencer3: source package names
<rickspencer3> seb128: interesting point about evolution-exchange
<seb128> rickspencer3: the list is basically https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs with tweaking
<pitti> rickspencer3: if only we had a former MS employee who could provide that :-P
<rickspencer3> pitti: hmmm
<seb128> lol
<rickspencer3> I can't get cheap licenses for business use, only for "personal" use :(
<pitti> j/k
<seb128> for the record I'm not interested to get an exchange license even if somebody can get me one ;-)
<rickspencer3> I wonder if we can just rent the service from someone though
<rickspencer3> seb128: I was hoping you would be running Vista. Aren't you doing that now?
 * rickspencer3 ducks
<seb128> sure, I'm only running this ubuntu thing in vmware under vista
<pitti> so that's what the gnome 3.0 theme is called like then :)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> !
<seb128> why do you think my intel card is working correctly?
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> oh man, I needed a good laugh
<jcastro> godaddy has hosted exchange for 7 bucks a month or something
<jcastro> I have a guy I roped in for likewise testing that might be able to test exchange, I'll find out
<kenvandine_wk> jcastro: that would rock
<kenvandine_wk> i know none of us want to do it :)
 * kenvandine_wk has never used exchange... amazing at my age to have never worked anywhere with exchange :-D
<seb128> my current way is to comment on the bugs asking to people to open a bug directly to GNOME if they can
<seb128> explaining that we are short on people having access to exchange servers and that GNOME guys would be able to work better on those issues
<jcastro> heh, ok, this guy can test karmic VMs or PPAs, and he does have an exchange environment so if we have like a set of tests or something
<jcastro> seb128: I assume the upstream novell evo guys would have access to exchange? or do the bugs just pile up there?
<seb128> they do have access
<seb128> same for evolution-mapi
<seb128> the redhat guys have some access too apparently
<jcastro> -mapi is the openchange one right? the one that is supposed to work better?
<seb128> the one which is new
<jcastro> right
<seb128> and support exchange 2007
<seb128> I would not say "better"
<jcastro> well, it doesn't screen scrape like -exchange does I don't think
<seb128> right
<seb128> but it's a bit new
<seb128> no doubt it will be better ;-)
<hyperair> did someone say exchange?
 * hyperair uses exchange to access his university email
<dobey> jcastro: evolution-exchange doesn't screenscrape. it uses the outlook web access api
<seb128> hyperair: we are short on people having access to exchange and wanting to upstream and triage launchpad bugs for it and evolution-mapi too
<hyperair> hmm. i think i can help with that.
<hyperair> i've fixed an exchange bug before
<hyperair> and i'll be having access to exchange for at least the next 3 years
<jcastro> dobey: ah
<dobey> i don't think i've ever used the exchange plug-in, but i've fixed plenty of bugs in it
<seb128> hyperair: that would be nice thanks ;-)
<hyperair> seb128: is there a todo anywhere?
<jcastro> seb128: so maybe in this cycle when we have a hug day on evo we should try to find people with access to exchange
<seb128> jcastro: right
<seb128> jcastro: we usually don't have days for evolution though
<jcastro> I think a -mapi day might work if we find people
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> hyperair: not really, just a pile of untriaged launchpad bugs
<jcastro> I'll work on finding people with exchange to triage bugs and whatnot
<hyperair> seb128: i'll go dig through them then. what's the source package name again?
<seb128> hyperair: I think a good part could be triaged without access to exchange though
<seb128> hyperair: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-exchange/+bugs
<seb128> hyperair: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-mapi/+bugs
<seb128> jcastro: I've been trying to convince the server team without too much success
<jcastro> convince them to do what?
<mvo> lool: thanks for your debian compiz abiver patches, that is a good idea, I integrate them into the ubuntu compiz now
<seb128> jcastro: that exchange access is a server feature ;-)
<seb128> jcastro: ie that they should be looking at those bugs and do testing
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> seb128: hot potato no one wants I gather.
<seb128> indeed
<jcastro> at the minimum I'll start hunting for testers.
<jcastro> seb128: -mapi is supposed to supercede -exchange right? At least eventually?
<seb128> jcastro: I think so, though I'm not sure
<seb128> jcastro: I don't need if there is setups where you just have access to the web interface
<seb128> jcastro: ie firewall blocking whatever mapi is using
<jcastro> most exchange people I know shut off the web interface anyway
<jcastro> so for some people -mapi is probably their only hope
<asac> seb128: so the build failure happens on all archs
<seb128> asac: what package?
<asac> seb128: what do you mean? libcairo2-dev depends on it ... and its in universe.
<asac> i guess that means all main packages with libcairo depend fail now
<seb128> asac: ok, can we start from scratch? ;-)
<asac> seb128: its xulrunner-1.9 rebuild
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me look
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26174824/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.xulrunner-1.9_1.9.0.10%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<asac> good ;)
<seb128> asac: somebody did send libxcb-render-util0-dev to universe indeed
<asac> ok sounds like an accident
<asac> please repromote
<asac> or talk to whoever did that first ;)
<seb128> somebody did overwrite all the queue binaries to universe
<seb128> dunno why it was in binary NEW though
 * hyperair never knew about mapi. will try now
<asac> one binary package makes all binary packages pop up in new queue i guess
<asac> from there its probably easy to just demote all ;)
<seb128> asac: right
<asac> seb128: will you promote and give back (with normal build score) xulrunner-1.9?
<asac> (and others that might have failed due to cairo2 ;)
<seb128> asac: I did promote, I can't give back with score though
<seb128> I'm not buildd admin
<seb128> I've no access to scoring
<seb128> and retry get the lower priority possible I think
<seb128> you need doko or pitti there
<mvo> seb128: I think the compiz abi version mismatch madness is finally going away (well, hopefully :)
<seb128> mvo: good ;-)
<seb128> mvo: are the ubuntu and debian compiz packages much different nowadays?
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I looked at them today
<mvo> seb128: debian ships compiz-gtk in addtion to compiz-gnome, that seems a bit much to me
<mvo> seb128: but then, we share most of the patches
<seb128> mvo: and all the libs, etc?
<mvo> how do you mean? that we have similar lib packages? that yes
<seb128> mvo: I was just wondering how far we are from being able to sync libcompizconfig, etc
<seb128> mvo: since debian has 0.8.2 too now
<seb128> mvo: anyway I will have a look, I'm just asking before compiz should land on the desktop team plates this cycle
<seb128> so I'm trying to figure how much we will get from debian
<mvo> I think we could (should?) merge full with them, but that is a bit of a non-trivial operation and requires some convicing about e.g. compiz-gtk
<seb128> and how much ubuntu work we have to do still ;-)
<mvo> we have stuff like compiz-wrapper that we need to keep for kubuntu
<seb128> mvo: well as compiz itself has change but I was expecting libcompizconfig, python, extra, etc to be syncable one day
<mvo> its unlikely that we can just sync
<mvo> yeah, the chances for that are much better indeed
<mvo> we should co-mainain it, unfortunately they use git
<mvo> and refuse to use cdbs (also cdbs is perfect for the simple packages)
<seb128> right
<mvo> I merged the abi depends patches now, that should be fine for now
<mvo> I think we should be ok with the karmic version for some weeks, we should discuss it further at uds
<mvo> (probably not in a official session, but just in between)
<seb128> ok
<pitti> I'm off for today then, will do another 15 mins of mail catchup and then I'll be gone until Monday
<pitti> have a good weekend everyone!
<seb128> same for me
<seb128> pitti: enjoy your weekend
<james_w> bye pitti, have a good one
<james_w> you too seb128
<pitti> seb128: enjoy the holiday tomorrow!
<pitti> james_w: and you!
<seb128> thanks
<james_w> not for us :-)
<seb128> on monday for you then?
<james_w> not until Monday at least
<chrisccoulson> everyones having a nice long weekend are they?
<Ampelbein> yeah.
<chrisccoulson> nice:)
<salty-horse> can anyone confirm? open gnome-panel's "Run application" feature (with alt+f2?) and type "nautilus". The icon will be that of the cd burner
<hyperair> salty-horse: i can confirm
<pedro_> salty-horse: yeah confirmed, the icon is the one of brasero
<salty-horse> any idea why that happens? /usr/share/applications/nautilus.desktop lists the correct file
<salty-horse> and "show list of known apps" lists the cd creator
<dobey> salty-horse: because the "cd creator" desktop launcher does "nautilus burn:///" or something like that
<dobey> salty-horse: and it's getting indexed in front of the other nautilus launchers
<salty-horse> dobey, know how to fix it? :)
<dobey> no
<mclasen> its the old problem of desktop files not being suitable as a real application registry...
<dobey> well i get the nautilus-cd-burner icon instead of brasero
<dobey> i don't think the storage method matters, if the sort for matches is still wrong
<mvo> meh, tracker-indexer is eating all my IO here :(
<chrisccoulson> mvo - you checked your ~/.local/share/tracker-indexer.log?
<chrisccoulson> you haven't had a notification about a corrupt index no?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: good question, I have not seen one, but then the machine was idle for ~1h
<mvo> chrisccoulson: what should I look for in the log?
<chrisccoulson> a whole load of "failed to store word" messages off the top of my head
<chrisccoulson> you on karmic or jaunty?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: jaunty, my log contains some:
<mvo> 30 Apr 2009, 20:54:21: Tracker-Warning **: Invalid byte sequence in conversion input
<chrisccoulson> i don't think those are anything to worry about. i always get a few of those when the indexer starts
<chrisccoulson> if those are the only messages, then the indexer might just be working correctly. but IO performance seems to suck quite a bit in general at the moment :(
<mvo> chrisccoulson: yeah :/
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<chrisccoulson> which version of tracker are you running in jaunty at the moment? is it the version in jaunty-proposed?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: sorry, I missied your earlier question. I was running the jaunty final version
<mvo> chrisccoulson: well, I never use tracker, I was suprised that it turned itself on for me
<chrisccoulson> mvo - there's a bug in the jaunty final version that causes indexing to start when you insert any removable media
<chrisccoulson> that could be why
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> that makes sense
<mvo> I inserted a usb stick just some minutes before
<mvo> thanks chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> i've fixed that in jaunty-proposed, but that version contains a fix for another bug which some users are still having issues with
<chrisccoulson> mvo - fwiw i've just been hovering over in #tracker, and it seems that the new sqlite FTS version of tracker is bringing some welcome performance improvements:)
<chrisccoulson> and fixes some other annoying bugs which currently make tracker less-than-useful
<mvo> nice
<mvo> that is good to hear
<mvo> when is it expected to land?
<chrisccoulson> i'll ask them next week. if the timeframe is this cycle (which I think is pretty much guaranteed now), then it might be worth me taking a snapshot of current GIT and getting it in to karmic
 * mvo nods
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to try it out over the weekend anyway
<pace_t_zulu> anyone interested in bug #36189
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 36189 in gnome-panel "Applets do not scale well with changing resolution" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36189
<dobey> pace_t_zulu: seems to work ok here, at least with all the resolution changes that wine causes
<pace_t_zulu> the bug still exists
<dobey> pace_t_zulu: though i have lost windows from wine... it makes some stuff go off my screen, and out of the window list
<dobey> pace_t_zulu: i think it only breaks if you don't lock the applets
<dobey> pace_t_zulu: if you lock the applet's position it seems ok
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: not true...
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: witnessed it on coworker's machine with default layout... nothing changed
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: but properties messed up... lose right_stick property
<dobey> ah, well it seems ok on my machine anyway
<dobey> and going down to 640x480 then back up to 2048x1152 would i think generally show the problem... but it doesn't here
<pace_t_zulu> i am still seeing it in jaunty
<pace_t_zulu> i think i have almost tracked it down
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: I am getting close to pinpointing the bug
<dobey> cool
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: I think I have identified the function responsible
<dobey> you should comment on the report and upstream then to help it get fixed... i was just stating that i don't see the problem on my machine
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: do you have any applets on your panel(s)?
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: any applets that have the "right stick" property set?
<dobey> i don't know what the "right stick" property is
<dobey> i have lots of applets on my panel though
<dobey> and several are locked to the right side
<dobey> clock/weather/volume/systray are all on the right side
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-01
<pace_t_zulu> dobey
<pace_t_zulu> try turning off the "expand" property of your panel
<pace_t_zulu> then "killall gnome-panel"
<pace_t_zulu> then turn expand back on
<pace_t_zulu> then "killall gnome-panel" again
<pace_t_zulu> dobey: you there?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hi rick
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: check it out
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell is a bot
<rickspencer3> try it, it's pretty good at the turing test
 * robert_ancell is a bot.  The real Robert is at the beach
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: what are good turing test questions
 * rickspencer3 gets meta on the bot
<kenvandine> yo yo
<kenvandine> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/102212/f-spot-with-friends-mockup.png
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: in terms of blueprint for U1 photo sharing
<rickspencer3> you might as well slap one together real quick
<kenvandine> yeah... i think it would rock
<kenvandine> and really help U1 shine
<kenvandine> with some cool facebook integration
<kenvandine> etc
<rickspencer3> pitti and I will sort them out later, worse case is we don't accept it for UDS, but that doesn't mean it would stop your project
<kenvandine> should i be creating wiki pages for each blueprint?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: so you're thinking FB friends for the contacts?
<kenvandine> well... that and other u1 services
<rickspencer3> or perhaps that could be plugable
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> any way we can get your friends
<kenvandine> and LP can interface with them somehow
<rickspencer3> like a list of checkboxes for different sets of contacts to share with
<kenvandine> but in this mockup
<kenvandine> if you had shared photos
<kenvandine> i could just select you in the drop down
<kenvandine> and i would see your photos that you shared
<kenvandine> nicely integrated in the desktop :)
<rickspencer3> and when a new picture was shared, it could rip a notification and use the indicator applet :P
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> and if you wanted to comment on someones photos
<kenvandine> all the friends can see it... like on your wall
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> like flickr meets f-spot meets u1 meets facebook
<kenvandine> all on your desktop
<kenvandine> and this could tie into the desktop content library idea
<kenvandine> which has a blueprint
<kenvandine> when are you and pitti reviewing the blueprints?
<kenvandine> i wish there was U1 api docs... i have no idea how hard this would be
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: there's a session planned for UDS on U1 integration
<rickspencer3> so that might be a good time to discuss with them
<kenvandine> i know
<kenvandine> i think this is big enough for a separate discussion
<rickspencer3> kenvandine - right
<kenvandine>  i wish more people were working on u1 services already... but maybe that is me just being overly excited about cool stuff :)
<rickspencer3> however, keep in mind that the desktop team will have *plenty* of work for Karmic
<kenvandine> i know :)
<rickspencer3> we're not really looking for more features to implement ;)
<kenvandine> it would be quite a bit of work... i suspect
 * robert_ancell can hear the crack of rickspencer3 s karmic whip already :)
<kenvandine> but would really rock
<kenvandine> imagine users never needing to backup their photos :)
<rickspencer3> that
<rickspencer3> s already supported with U1, right?
<rickspencer3> just pop your photos in there
<kenvandine> not really
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> that part is
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<kenvandine> but not the metadata... like tags
<kenvandine> etc
<rickspencer3> hmm
<kenvandine> and it requires you to put it in the right directories
<kenvandine> etc
<rickspencer3> are those your kids? cute
<kenvandine> and of course doesn't do any of the social stuff :)
<kenvandine> yup :)
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> last weekend at the zoo :)
<rickspencer3> those pants are going to be covered in grass stains and dirt in about 15 minutes, right?
<kenvandine> yup
<rickspencer3> heh
 * kenvandine is still waiting for that mockup to sync to u1
<rickspencer3> I'll be interested to see the blueprint, perhaps you could whip up some community energy around the project, or
<kenvandine> maybe :)
<rickspencer3> even interest the f-spot upstream devs to take a look
<rickspencer3> alright, this is getting annoying ...
<robert_ancell> You guys may like this.  My handy beta tester (my dad) was happy with the Jaunty upgrade because his built in wireless started working so he could chuck away his USB WiFi card.  He's had more stuff work every release
<kenvandine> i'll try to get it done tonight... any minute my wife is going to hand the baby to me
<rickspencer3> I can't figure out how to get evo to actually apply my filters
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: awesome!
<rickspencer3> after joining the U1 list thingy, I *need* my filters
<kenvandine> ctrl-y
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: in a week the bugs will be public... so you can be removed from the team :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: it is nuts, sometimes there are hundreds an hour
<kenvandine> i've been getting these mails since i started :)
<rickspencer3> what does ctrl-y do?
<kenvandine> runs filters
<kenvandine> ctrl-a then ctrl-y
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<rickspencer3> I assumed they were automatically aplied ...
<rickspencer3> like *every other email program ever*
<kenvandine> well... i think they can be
<kenvandine> but i hate that
<kenvandine> i don't think it is the default
 * calc notes that OOo 3.1.0~rc2 is now pending on a bunch of syncs
<kenvandine> calc: long live gnome office
 * kenvandine ducks
<calc> kenvandine: heh :)
<rickspencer3> calc: are you going to get that puppy ready for us before you start your OEM tour tomorrow?
<rickspencer3> :)
<calc> kenvandine: i'm hoping oracle creates the foundation later this year so we can fix the Sun braindamage
<rickspencer3> get it into Karmic and don't look back :)
<kenvandine> calc: that will take years... to convert that kind of braindamage
<calc> rickspencer3: doesn't look like it will be done by then unfortunately unless someone wants to sync a bunch of packages for me
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: thaks for the note about your dad, btw, good to hear
<rickspencer3> calc: you'll still have 20% time to work on it, I think
<calc> kenvandine: they decided to essentially fork a bunch of java libraries which i now have to wait on a sync for :\
<rickspencer3> 20% of 80 hours is 25 hours, so really, no problems
<calc> ok
<kenvandine> :/
<kenvandine> hehe
<calc> haha
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: that isn't enough to maintain OOo
<calc> ~ 80hr a week is around enough for OOo by itself yea ;-)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: ack, but I think for Karmic we might actually not want to do too much, let the dust settle with Sun purchase and such
 * calc was putting close to that in for the past couple months anyway
<calc> it has gotten much easier to get good quality packages by not trying to cram in the new OOo at the last minute though :)
<calc> with intrepid and jaunty and we are now nearly caught up on bug triage for OOo :)
<calc> it also lets novell do most of bug shake out for us with the new releases, heh :)
<rickspencer3> calc: have there been any complaints from users about not having 3.1 in Jaunty?
<calc> i think they try to line up their suse releases to be a few months after OOo release as well
<rickspencer3> I wouldn't think so given that it's still in Rc
<calc> rickspencer3: haven't heard anything yet... of course 3.1 still isn't even out yet, heh
<calc> rc2 just came out this week
<calc> they are planning i think to just throw whats there out as final next week... warts and all
<rickspencer3> ug
<calc> but there will be a 3.1.1 in a couple months that we will get in for karmic
<rickspencer3> so we should probably get 3.1 into Karmic early, and hope we get good bug fixes from upstream while you are on your OEM tour
<calc> generally .0 releases by OOo aren't very good, they are going to try to improve that this next cycle for 3.2
<calc> yea
<calc> i think i can probably handle the packaging aspect for 3.1 if some other people can help with the bug triage
<calc> i doubt i can do both in 20% time, heh
<rickspencer3> calc: right
<calc> though it won't be as bad as this past cycle since i had lots of bugs to go through and verify and send upstream
<rickspencer3> don't worry, we've got your back
<calc> bug verification does take extra time for OOo since we have to have a good enough bug to reproduce it ourselves then test on Sun OOo, if it doesn't show up on Sun OOo then forward to Novell (if we know its not our fault), if seen in Sun OOo send to them, otherwise fix it ourselves
<rickspencer3> calc: have you documented these practices?
<calc> combined with the fact that most bug reports aren't very good quality initially it can take a while to triage bugs, :\
<calc> rickspencer3: i think so, but i will check on the wiki and add/update as needed
<rickspencer3> that would be helpful
<calc> in the past i did ~ 95% of the triage so i did document it at one time but since few other people do it may be out of date
<rickspencer3> calc: do we have to get 3.1.1 for Karmic?
<rickspencer3> can't we just stick with 3.1.0, or will it be too buggy?
<calc> 3.1.0 should be fine... but afaik 3.1.1 is expected before FF and is just a minor bugfix release
<calc> the .1 releases are to fix bugs they didn't get around to for the .0 release (and newly found bugs as well)
<calc> generally getting things working from a .0 to .1 release packaging wise isn't much trouble, getting the initial .0 working on Ubuntu can be a lot of work though
<rickspencer3> kenvandine what about a U1 app that let's you share desktop wallpaper?
<calc> i think i have 3.1.0 almost ready doing a test build at the moment, and need the packages synced for its build-deps
<rickspencer3> calc: noted
<kenvandine> that would be pretty simple i would think
<rickspencer3> could the app that sets the desktop wallpaper be amended to look in a certain place and pick a random wall paper?
<kenvandine> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-photo-ubuntuone
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yes it could
<kenvandine> it could actually follow a rss feed (with some hacking)
<rickspencer3> seems maybe simpler than the f-spot thing ;)
<kenvandine> but not nearly as cool
 * rickspencer3 is so subtle
<kenvandine> ok... baby time.... later folks1
<rickspencer3> 'night kenvandine
<rickspencer3> good night all!
<rickspencer3> see you tomorrow
<maxb> How incredibly bizarre.
 * maxb has found a 1-pixel wide line in xchat which appears to allow scrollwheel events to pass through and hit the desktop root window
<maxb> the right edge of the channel list in treeview mode, ftr
<calc> what was the default KDE in hardy, was it KDE 3.5 or 4.x?
<james_w> 3
<calc> james_w: thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-02
<floborg> Does anybody know how to remove gnome-appearance-properties?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-03
<Masood1> does any1 knows how to install drivers for intel g33 on ubuntu
<ahe> i'm using evolution since feisty on the same box (always upgraded to the next version)
<ahe> now i'm using jaunty since beta and this morning eclipse locks up on start
<ahe> the main window appears but it gets grey and it never recovers
<ahe> i already moved my .eclipse directory to a backup location but this doesn't change anything
<ahe> when i start eclipse with strace gnome locks up and i have to go to the console and "killall -9 strace" to get my x session respond again
<ahe> is there anything apart from moving my .evolution directory (gconf???) that i can do to get my evolution install working again?
<ahe> anything apart from the strace output i can attach to my bug report?
<mnemo> ahe: can you gdb into strace and take a stak snapshot please?
<ahe> mnemo: yes i could but strace doesn't freeze my xsession anymore
<ahe> i just submitted the problem as bug #371186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371186 in evolution "Evolution freezes on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371186
<ahe> feel free to ask me for more information
<ahe> i will not try to work around it until there is a fix so i can provide you with further information
<asac> ahe: you talk bout evolution ... but then you talk about .eclipse ;)?
<ahe> asac: yeah i see
<ahe> but it's evolution
<ahe> my mistake *doh*
<YokoZar> Is there a point to the flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound package?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound
<YokoZar> or is this some cruft that should be removed from the archive?
<pace_t_zulu> YokoZar: i was wondering the same thing a few days back
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-03
<RAOF> Good morning funky people.
<paulorrrr> login foer live cd 10.04
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning pitti.
<pitti> hey RAOF, had a nice weekend?
 * pitti waves from Belgium
<Keybuk> you're already in Belgium?!
<pitti> yes, visiting some friends of mine in Leuven
<RAOF> pitti: A pretty productive weekend.  We had a successful sofa hunt, and we've now got the tools to prune the front garden.
<pitti> which is just a regional train hour from La Hulpe
<Keybuk> ahh
<Keybuk> was wondering why anyone would voluntarily spend more time in Belgium
<virtuald> belgian beer <3
<RAOF> I hear the chocolate's nice, too :P
<virtuald> <:
<ccheney> pitti: do you know if totem codec detection is an ubuntu feature or something from upstream?
<pitti> ccheney: it started out as an Ubuntu feature, but most bits are upstream now (the detection, not the actual package installation frontend, I think)
<ccheney> pitti: ah ok, i filed bug 574050, not sure if it belongs to upstream or our code
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574050 in totem "totem detects HDV video but doesn't seem to know it can play it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574050
<ccheney> if its something relatively easy to fix it might be worth to stick it in the relevant SRU if we are doing them anyway for gnome
<ccheney> it seems to also affect users trying to edit video in pitivi
<ccheney> hmm pitivi doesn't work even after ignoring the error
<ccheney> so maybe its more involved
<ccheney> otherwise the warning being produced is causing pitivi to completely ignore the file
<ccheney> with totem if you just cancel out it appears to try to play anyway and then it works
 * ccheney bbl
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> good morning
<glatzor> morning mvo seb128!
<mvo> hey glatzor!
 * pitti waves to didrocks, glatzor, mvo, and seb128; had a nice weekend?
<glatzor> mvo, seb128, I released AptDaemon 0.31 and SessionInstaller 0.10. This finally provides us the PackageKit session API
<mvo> glatzor: you rock \o/
<glatzor> hello pitti! Indeed! How are you?
<mvo> glatzor: I prepare packages
<lifeless> mvo: hey
<lifeless> mvo: so conflictchecker had another package reading error
<lifeless> mvo: several in fact; I forwarded you the mail in case you're still not getting the originals
<Keybuk> mvo: huh
<Keybuk> why doesn't do-release-upgrade work?
<didrocks> hey pitti, yeah, nice week-end, thanks. Seems you got one nice too ;)
<pitti> yes, I went from Munich to Leuven, and we went through the city yesterday
<glatzor> mvo, You can find the packaging for maverick in the corresponding branches: lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/ubuntu-maverick/ and lp:~aptdaemon-developers/sessioninstaller/ubuntu-maverick/
<glatzor> mvo, I haven't yet checked compatibility with software-center, since it includes some API changes
<mvo> Keybuk: d-r-u on a hardy system?
<mvo> Keybuk: for those you still need to run with "--development" (or --proposed)
<mvo> Keybuk: because we have not enabled lts -> lts by default yet
<mvo> hey lifeless, I got one of the mails now
<Keybuk> won't that upgrade me to maverick? </scared>
<mvo> glatzor: cool
<mvo> Keybuk: its confusing :/ this is why thinking about it via "--proposed" is maybe less scary. its a proposed upgrade but not for everyone just yet
<mvo> glatzor: I will check this out, maverick is not open yet, so that is fine
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> annoying bzr misfeature
<Keybuk> lifeless: ^^
<Keybuk> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/somepackage
<Keybuk> remembers "lucid"
<Keybuk> so you can't just carry on into maverick
<Keybuk> it should remember "current development release whatever that may be"
<lifeless> Keybuk: yes, but related to this is that we encode lucid in the official branch url on launchpad too
<lifeless> Keybuk: if we fixed that bzr wouldn't need to change, and it would Just Work.
<lifeless> Keybuk: bzr should change to remember the directory service url, I think, but thats not actually the root of this particular problem :)
<Keybuk> bzr should remember lp:ubuntu/lucid
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> bzr should remember lp:ubuntu/package
<Keybuk> not blah/blah/package/blah/ubuntu/blah/lucid/blah/lucid/blah/lucid :p
<Keybuk> bzr should also fix bugs for me
<Keybuk> and make me tea
<Keybuk> especially the tea
<baptistemm> hi there (again)
<baptistemm> pitti, for bug 559412, I wasn't clear, the fix I propose is to revert the session change upstream did in 0.22, so this part is like the 0.21 release. But I can't upload the fix myself as I don't have any permission for that. can someone do it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559412 in obexd "bluetooth-sendto dialog is not closed after transfer is finished." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559412
<pitti> baptistemm: ah, I understand; I can sponsor it
<baptistemm> pitti, thanks a lot
<pitti> baptistemm: meh, seems that lp:ubuntu/obexd isn't up to date (it has 0.21 still)
<baptistemm> hmm
<baptistemm> perhaps it was not merged yet ?
<pitti> but your merge includes it, so that shold be fine
<baptistemm> yeah, my change is stacked over the branch I did for 0.22
<baptistemm> bzr bd FTW
<pitti> baptistemm: sponsored
<glatzor> mvo, I created screencast if you want to get a first impression: http://www.glatzor.de/blog/blog-details/article/putting-things-together/
<baptistemm> pitti, thanks a lot
 * baptistemm hugs pitti ^^
 * pitti hugs back baptistemm, merci for fixing it
<mvo> glatzor: cool! just watched it
<seb128> hey glatzor pitti
<seb128> pitti, yes, good weekend in Brussels
<baptistemm> seb128, if you have time could you confirm bug 559412 is fixed for you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559412 in obexd "bluetooth-sendto dialog is not closed after transfer is finished." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559412
<baptistemm> hi btw
<seb128> baptistemm, hi, I will have a look when I've time but I'm sprinting this week so I will not have much distro time
<pitti> baptistemm: it's not accepted into -proposed yet (will do that in a bit)
<baptistemm> pitti, ah okay, sorry i don't really know the process
<cassidy> seb128, you're already in Bxl ?
<seb128> cassidy, yes, sort of, the uds location is half an hour out of bruxelles
<seb128> I'm there already this week
<cassidy> I know, it's a trap!
<cassidy> totally not Brussels :p
<cassidy> I'll even have to take the train to go there
<cassidy> seb128, btw, I'll be there next week on Monday, Tuesday and Wed. Would be cool if the empathy sessions could be during these days
<seb128> cassidy, ok, noted
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va? l'hÃ´tel est bien? ;)
<seb128> didrocks, oui, oui l'hotel est bien?
<seb128> ?->!
<cassidy> seb128, on s'emmerde pas, La Hulpe c'est qd mÃªme la commune la plus riche de Belgique ;)
<glatzor> mpt, hello
<glatzor> mpt, I added a test section to http://wiki.debian.org/aptdaemon/DependencyHandling, so you could take a look at the dependency confirmation dialogs.
<switchgirl> hi
<switchgirl> anyone found a fix for Bug 569543
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569543 in gwibber "Could not identify preference: username Could not identify preference: session_key failure yet authed for services" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569543
<switchgirl> it's really annoying not being able to add accounts
<pitti> kenvandine: ^
<seb128> dpm, hey
<mpt> hi glatzor
<pitti> switchgirl: (he's not awake right now, he'll follow up later)
<dpm> heya seb128, morning
<seb128> dpm, how is the translation import queue? did everything uploaded before lucid got imported?
<mpt> glatzor, great, thanks
<dpm> seb128, no, it didn't, and we should probably release a new langpack soon. However, I believe everything translated in GNOME before the upstream translation deadline got imported. Translations on my system look great, and we haven't had any complaints from translators
<seb128> dpm, ok thanks
<kklimonda> pitti: seb128:how hard would it be to get a microrelease update for transmission in lucid? There are two bugs that have to be fixed and while it can be done as a backport it would make sense to keep transmission in LTS at the latest bugfix release (and this one is going to be the last in 1.9x). Some private trackers ban earlier releases to limit a number of allowed clients (and make it harder
<kklimonda> to cheat). Fedora has updated to 1.93 so it should get enough testing, we could let it sit in -proposed for some time after verification so more people can test it.
<pitti> kklimonda: sounds fine, if the individual changes meet the SRU and FF/UIF criteria
<pitti> (like no string changes, etc.)
<gicmo> hi hi
<gicmo> mvo: dude, long time no see
<mvo> hey gicmo! indeed - how are you?
<gicmo> mvo, pretty good
<gicmo> mvo, I miss you all of course
<mvo> we miss you too!
<gicmo> mvo, btw, update-manager -c should be able to upgrade me to lucid from hardy(!) right?
<gicmo> I am not seeing any cool "New release avail" dialog
<gicmo> maybe the ubuntu.bio.lmu.de mirror is fucking things up though
<mvo> gicmo: oh, this is comming up so often, our message is not good. "update-manager --proposed" will put you there from hardy
<mvo> gicmo: we have not enabled it yet by default to show up on hardy systems
<gicmo> grml, and this is kubuntu (+ the gnome desktop), can I migrate to ubuntu as well
<mvo> gicmo: by default it will upgrade both (kubuntu, ubuntu) on such a system
<mvo> gicmo: if you want to get rid of kubuntu, easiest is to remove kdelibs5 I think
<gicmo> ahh thanks! ;-)
<gicmo> *evil grin*
<gicmo> ;)
<gicmo> mvo, ahh now I am seeing the dialog
<rickspencer3> hi all
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<gicmo> hi pitti!
<pitti> hey gicmo, how are you?
<rickspencer3> I missed my train to Brussels, have to wait a while now :/
<pitti> rickspencer3: waving from Leuven :)
<gicmo> pretty good
<pitti> rickspencer3: where are you now?
<pitti> Amsterdam still?
<rickspencer3> pitti, yes
<rickspencer3> I found a place near the train station with wireless
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<mvo> gicmo: let me know how the upgrade goes
<gicmo> mvo, I will scream if something goes wrong, don't worry ;-)
<gicmo> wow, it downloaded 2k packages in less then 5 minutes
<gicmo> friggin fast network here
<mvo> gicmo: the german server is amazing currently
<gicmo> mvo, and I am currently at the LMU and they have fiber connection everywhere
<gicmo> ;-)
<mvo> sweet
<gicmo> totally
<hyperair> does anyone notice that openoffice presentation no longer seems to fullscreen when entering presentation mode?
<didrocks> going out of lunch, bb in a couple of hours
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, it's with the French "gendarmerie", for a conference for next ubuntu party :)
<seb128> oh, nice ;-)
<kenvandine> switchgirl, do you have a facebook "username", like my login is my email but i also have a username of "kenvandine"
<kenvandine> i wonder if people that didn't enable that are running into this
<kenvandine> humm... gwibber stores that username, but i think not everyone would have that
<kenvandine> i bet gwibber uses that in a bunch of places
<gicmo> mvo: so upgrade frooze the system and now I have a kernel panic
<gicmo> ;-)
<gicmo> ahh good old linux days
<mvo> gicmo: *weehh*
<mvo> gicmo: froze in what way?
<mvo> gicmo: and you boot a previous kernel?
<gicmo> something with s
<gicmo> it can't find the disk with uuid=xyz it says
<mvo> gicmo: can you still boot the previous kernel?
<gicmo> mvo, nope, first error gives udevd and then it cannot find the disk
<switchgirl> kenvandine, yes i do
<artnay> gicmo: before you boot the kernel, replace uuid with "root=/dev/something" (try sda1)
<gicmo> artnay, /dev doesn't contain any disks
<gicmo> I guess udev is fubar
<mvo> gicmo: hm, usually it keeps a previous kernel with the old initramfs with the working udev and friends
<gicmo> bull I try the oldschool way
<artnay> I had this and I simply replaced uuid with /dev/sda1, worked.
<gicmo> mvo, let me try a few others (old gernals)
<artnay> after that I set GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true in /etc/default/grub
<gicmo> gnome version of kernel
<gicmo> ;-)
<gicmo> mvo, ok a very old kernel booted and now asks me for root pw
<gicmo> I guess that will be a reinstall
<mvo> gicmo: please send me the logs firt
<mvo> gicmo: first
<mvo> gicmo: the stuff in /var/log/dist-upgrade/*
<mvo> gicmo: and anything that looks like its releated to the freeze in the logs
<mvo> gicmo: I really want to get to the bottom of this first
<gicmo> mvo, If I ever manage to get to a console (maybe with the livecd)
<gicmo> mvo, I have no clue what root pw that should be
<mvo> gicmo: try "init=/bin/sh" at the grub prompt then :)
<gicmo> now I really fell back in 1997
<gicmo> ;-)
<gicmo> feel
<gicmo> mvo, sooo what exactly do you need?
<pitti> gicmo: for a slightly more comfortable feeling, try /bin/bash instead :)
<mvo> gicmo: the files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/*
<gicmo> mvo, well, I mean where does upgrade manager store its stuff?
<gicmo> pitti, bash? do you think I am a luxury hore?
<pitti> haha
<gicmo> ;-)
<gicmo> I am also a zsh user
<gicmo> ;-)
<mvo> gicmo: and if it crashed/froze, anything that might be helpful there, if you find something in the kernel logs for example
<gicmo> mvo, Setting up splix (2.0.0-2ubuntu3)
<gicmo> that is the last thing in term.log
<mvo> gicmo: hm, not very helpful
<gicmo> mvo, I looked at most files, all not very helpfull
<gicmo> mvo, any change I can continue the upgrares?
<mvo> gicmo: anything in ../kern.log that might give  a clue?
<mvo> gicmo: certainly, in the recovery mode there is a entry for this, you can also do it now
<mvo> gicmo: run /usr/share/recovery-mode/recovery-menu
<gicmo> ok let me see
<mvo> gicmo: that gives you something like dpkg-fix or so
<switchgirl> kenvandine, it doesn't it asks for an email address not username the user name thing is different and used for vhat only
<switchgirl> chat*
<switchgirl> gwibber in not chat therefore not used
<gicmo> mvo, apt-term.log has "Setting up open"
<gicmo> ;-)
<gicmo> apparently carshed before office
<gicmo> ;-)
<mvo> gicmo: what happend to the machine, was it frozen solid? no mouse, no nothing? or blank screen?
<gicmo> fozen solid
<gicmo> screen was frozen (image)
<gicmo> no mouse, no keyboard, nothing
<mvo> :(
<gicmo> mvo, it tries to download console-setup and fails to then install it
<gicmo> subprocess dpkg returns error code 2
 * gicmo tries apt-get -f install
<gicmo> just becuase ;-)
<LaserJock> didrocks: around?
<gicmo> mvo, so, apt-get -f install does something
<gicmo> let's see
<mvo> gicmo: I'm sure it will recover just fine, its just freaking anoying that it did freeze without any traces in any logs
<gicmo> yeah, ;-/
<mvo> gicmo: the trouble is that its hard to tell if it was the upgrade killing it
<mvo> gicmo: or "just" the load that it suddently put on the machine
<mvo> gicmo: nothing in kern.log or syslog? on crash in /var/crash?
<hugolp> hi, can someone update me on the state of audio and video IM in 10.04? Does empathy (or anything else) support it?
<gicmo> mvo, hmm not sure, I have copied over all logs
<switchgirl> [Bug 513346]  Keeps being marked as Low importance. its really important that it is fixed urgently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513346 in empathy "MSN connection does not work: Network error" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513346
<mvo> ok
<switchgirl> @ seb128
<gicmo> mvo, will send them over once I have back to X11
<mvo> thanks
<baptistemm> pitti, does uploading the fix for obexd means you'll merge the branch also, or is it a differnet process ?
<pitti> baptistemm: can't push to lucid-proposed
<pitti> baptistemm: the auto-importer will deal with it, I guess
<pitti> can't -> there's an error when I try
<baptistemm> okay, tbh, I don't really know the branch process
<pitti> it needs to be created first, or something such
<gicmo> mvo, almost
<gicmo> mvo, it fixed lots of packages
<mvo> gicmo: cool
<gicmo> mvo, but apprently still has some errors
<mvo> gicmo: can you give me a example?
<seb128> switchgirl, hi
<gicmo> Errors were encourtered while process:
<gicmo> global
<gicmo> and the recovery menu still chokes on setting up console-setup
<gicmo> hi seb128
<switchgirl> hi seb128
<gicmo> unable to reopen stdi
<gicmo> stdin
<gicmo> hmm let me try something
<switchgirl> yeah seb128 the msn thing is really important people simply cant connect
<seb128> hey gicmo
<gicmo> update-rc shoud be where?
<ogra> switchgirl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance by that definition a bug with a workaround is Low ... seb128 set it to low before anyone said the workaround wouldnt work
<seb128> switchgirl, it's only an im, it's not end of the world
<ogra> bump it to medium :)
<seb128> and restarting telepathy-butterfly should work no?
<seb128> set it blocker if you want it's not like the setting will make the bug fixed faster there
<switchgirl> seb128,  i'm 21 it's the end of the world as we know it :P lmao
<seb128> I wish people spend their time doing something constructive rather than argue about settings
<switchgirl> seb128, if i could code i would :)
<seb128> do you get the issue all the time?
<seb128> uninstall telepathy-butterfly is a mistake there
<switchgirl> i don't others do - i went weeks witjout any IM
<kenvandine> switchgirl, gwibber gets it back from facebook when you login and stores it
<switchgirl> i used to
<kenvandine> and apparently it doesn't handle the case when that doesn't exist
<seb128> switchgirl, I've asked questions on the bug, it's low priority because it's not something happening to lot of users
<seb128> switchgirl, what error do you get in empathy when trying to connect?
<seb128> switchgirl, if you stop telepathy-butterfly does it work?
<switchgirl> i used to get network error
<seb128> you used to? now?
<switchgirl> seb128 i was using beta and its ok now
<seb128> ok, so why did you raise the issue there now? ;-)
<gicmo> kubuntu spalsh screen
<switchgirl> but was really frustraighting to not have im
<gicmo> fuck that
<gicmo> need to change that
<gicmo> ;-)
<switchgirl> others are experiancing the issue, you are right though shouldn't have raised it
<switchgirl> sorry
<seb128> that's ok, nothing to be sorry about
<ogra> switchgirl, there are plenty of other IM apps that can use MSN ... so you wouldnt be *without* IM ... just without MSN in telepathy until its fixed :)
<ogra> there are always fallaback apps in such cases (well, most of the time at least)
<ogra> *fallback
<switchgirl> seb128 i have noticed one small thing it does sometimes get confused
<switchgirl> it posts the senders words under my name
<seb128> weird
<seb128> open a bug with the empathy, debug dialog, butterfly log if you can
<seb128> look for private informations in the log and replaces contact names and text if you want
<switchgirl> hasn't happened for ages and tbh i only remember it once
<seb128> switchgirl, we got quite some msn issues fixed in the month before lucid
<switchgirl> seb128, i know and like i said to the soldier in the street after his tour of duty... thank you it is appriciated
<baptistemm> wonderful, a nvidia crash
<seb128> switchgirl, you're welcome
<cjohnston> sabdfl: nice post.. I think this is a great idea
<jcastro> seb128: ping
<jcastro> seb128: one of the brasero guys pinged me and showed me this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617494
<ubottu> Gnome bug 617494 in general "Fails to burn ANY audio project" [Blocker,Unconfirmed]
<jcastro> they're getting bugs from people with audio CD problems (similar to the one I had)
<jcastro> and they've tested on other distros and suspect that there's something lucid-specific that is the problem
<seb128> jcastro, not likely ubuntu specific no
<seb128> we have no distro change likely to create that issue
<seb128> it's not broken for everybody either
<seb128> rickspencer and I tried and it's working for us too
<jcastro> seb128: ok so now what?
<sabdfl> thanks cjohnston
<cjohnston> :-)
<seb128> jcastro, not sure what replies you are waiting on there
<seb128> jcastro, somebody need to debug brasero, if upstream doesn't want to we will need to do it
<seb128> jcastro, I don't get the issue though so doesn't make that easy
<jcastro> well, they are getting the bug reports upstream ...
<jcastro> it's bad timing right before UDS I don't have time to look at it right now
<seb128> jcastro, well it's an upstream issue
<jcastro> seb128: what are the chances we have someone around not doing anything that can help? (hah)
<seb128> we don't distro change their code
<jcastro> What if it's some other bit?
<jcastro> like wodim or whatever?
<seb128> well they could be helpful and tell us what can confuse their software
<seb128> jcastro, could you get them looking to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613986?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 613986 in general "Pressing create audio cd does nothing" [Normal,New]
<jcastro> ok
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, d'oh, I was going to add today the --disable-introspection config flag to couchdb-glib as we talked, and it was already available via the GOBJECT_INTROSPECTION_CHECK m4 macro
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, I'll add a --disable-introspection arg to configure in the next package upgrade
<jcastro> rodrigo_: he's not working today
<rodrigo_> jcastro, ah, ok
<Nafai> morning
<didrocks> good morning Nafai
<Nafai> How are you didrocks?
<didrocks> Nafai: I'm fine thanks ;) and you?
<Nafai> not bad, dealing with allergies/a cold.  Going to the doctor later today though.
<didrocks> urgh :/
<didrocks> hope you will feel better for UDS :)
<Nafai> Me too, that's why I'm going to the doctor today.
<Nafai> Normally I would just suffer through it
<duanedesign> hello didrocks
<didrocks> hey duanedesign
<duanedesign> hope you had a good weekend. :)
<didrocks> duanedesign: productive one, preparing the French ubuntu-party and enjoying ubuntu Paris release party, so, yeah ;)
<didrocks> duanedesign: and you?
<duanedesign> that sounds fun
<duanedesign> didrocks: have you done, or thought about getting the sources list with the apt library?
<didrocks> duanedesign: yeah, I've a lot of "little issues" to take into account in that design. My plan is to make a pdf with schemes of what's the issues and what decision to take on that regards for UDS
<didrocks> like for instance, you have different laptop your synchronize, making a list of installed application by computer, common?
<didrocks> you upgrade and have ppa/3rd party repo, what to do on reinstallation?
<duanedesign> didrocks: i was trying to find in the Software Center where it handles that. Would be nice to associatte the sources with the packages
<didrocks> btw, there is a new algorithm at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf, if you want to test it :)
<didrocks> duanedesign: well, I don't think associate each package with each source is the right thing to do, because it will always take the last version (with respect to apt pinning), whatever available repo are
<didrocks> and if you have an updated list for lucid, and reinstall in maverick, available apps and version can be different
<didrocks> so, a lot of cornercase to discuss about at UDS :)
<duanedesign> didrocks: ahhh, i see what you mean
<duanedesign> hmmm. didnt even think of that
<didrocks> yeah, it's a little bit of a headache, but conceptually interesting :)
<didrocks> duanedesign: I'll try to make a pdf with schemas this week about the different issues and decisions we will face for the UDS session. I can ping you once done for first review if you are interested
<duanedesign> yeah ill have to ponder that. Got a few people contributing to Stipple. Ill present it to them in case they have some insight
<didrocks> sure :)
<duanedesign> didrocks: yes definetly.
<duanedesign> thanks didrocks!
<didrocks> duanedesign: you're welcome. I really think we should do that either as a service or a trigger and put at least that part in common (not telling about storing .vimrc and other stuff, that should remain in stipple for more advanced configuration)
<didrocks> but first UDS to take the right design decision :)
<duanedesign> didrocks: sounds good. We have been working to make Stipple extensible so adding plugins will be easy
<didrocks> great ;)
<duanedesign> didrocks: i am looking forward to UDS. Wont be able to make it in person but have made arrangments to be able to participate remotely
<didrocks> duanedesign: sweet, I'll made sure that we take into account IRC participation
<sshaw> Laney: ping
<and471> mpt: hi
<mpt> and471, welcome back?
<and471> mpt: alas not yet
<and471> mpt: start of july
<mpt> ah
<and471> mpt: exams start about now :-)
<mpt> Best wishes for those, then
<and471> I was able to do some hacking in the bank holiday though :-)
<and471> mpt: thankyou
<and471> mpt: would you like to see ?
<mpt> sure
<and471> mpt: I love the new design blog, very interesting :-)
<and471> mpt: here we go - http://videobin.org/+16l/1e3.html
<and471> mpt: I started introducing jquery to software-center
<and471> mpt: if you need anything explaining, please ask but I think it kinda speaks for itself
<mpt> and471, interesting
<mpt> and471, I have to go out right now but I'll be back in an hour or so
<and471> mpt: it doesn't really have any usability behind it, just some bling
<Nafai> hmmm, I need to finish up my summaries
<Nafai> lunch
<qense> aquarius: Now you're here: I'm passing a string to a method of an DBus interface (server and client written in Python)  and DBus complains that it's not a string. However, when I pass another string, starting with a '#'-sign, then everything works fine. Have you got any idea how that could be possible?
<aquarius> heh.
<aquarius> I don't know
<aquarius> That seems alarmingly random
<aquarius> Keybuk knows Much D-Bus stuff.
<qense> aquarius: Lets bug Keybuk then. Keybuk, could you help please?
<didrocks> Nafai: think to deserve some time to triaging UNE bugs, there are a lot coming in the release time :)
<Nafai> didrocks: Sure, I'll spend some time today triaging
<didrocks> Nafai: also, did you have the time to dive for the "Visible" issue on gnome-bluetooth with the minimal testcase? Seems there is an open bug on it now
<Nafai> I hadn't got deeper yet
<Nafai> Sounds like I have reason to now ;)
<didrocks> right ;)
<didrocks> should be good on the long term, it's not that urgent for lucid now, but for the long termâ¦ ;)
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> running to the doctor, bbl
<didrocks> Nafai: hope you will get soon better!
<Nafai> thanks
<Nafai> I've got a few bugs queued up to triage when I get back
<didrocks> sweet
<Nafai> btw, do you have a bug # for the "Visible" bug for Bluetooth?
<Nafai> on that note, gotta run
<didrocks> Nafai: hum, no, it was reporting against the indicator or gnome-applet IIRC, should be easy to find ;)
<didrocks> Nafai: you maybe want also to answer to bug #573926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573926 in indicator-applet "indicator-applet prevents to display peripherals in bluetooth applet" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573926
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, I'm fine, thanks, and you? :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, good thanks. did you have a good weekend?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, a good one, around ubuntu activity of course (release party and preparing the ubuntu party) ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: did you have a day off? didn't see you on IRC
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, it was a public holiday today, and i also had a day off on friday too
<didrocks> oh, that's good ;)
<chrisccoulson> i went to a friends wedding in scotland on saturday, so i spent a lot of the weekend driving
<didrocks> Saturday with a public holiday in Franceâ¦ but on Saturday ;)
<didrocks> urgh, not too tired?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not too tired now, i rested quite a bit today
<chrisccoulson> got plenty of e-mails to catch up on now though ;)
<didrocks> well, you should wait tomorrow for that :p
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i will wait now ;)
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> I'll go to bed, I think that's enough for a day!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow and enjoy the evening/night :)
<chrisccoulson> good night didrocks
<Nafai> back
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-04
<klez> hi
<m1ndctrl> anyone around?
<m1ndctrl> I have a quick question about gnome-settings-daemon and xserver-xgl
<RAOF> m1ndctrl: Oooh, that's a blast from the past!
<m1ndctrl> glad to see someones up :)
<m1ndctrl> Actually, I'm working on gettings xgl running across 4 monitors in one x session
<m1ndctrl> I've had this running no problem in 8.04
<m1ndctrl> I'm on 10.04 now
<m1ndctrl> and I'm 95% there.
<m1ndctrl> I can get compiz working, and indeed xgl is running - however, gnome won't start.
<RAOF> Xgl has been *entirely* dead for quite some time.
<m1ndctrl> agreed.
<m1ndctrl> but it's the only way it will work.
<m1ndctrl> unless you know of another way?
<RAOF> Unless those 4 monitors are all being driven by a single GPU, no.
<m1ndctrl> indeed the problem is that I'm running two seperate gpu's
<RAOF> Right.  XRandR doesn't yet address that use-case.
<m1ndctrl> any idea why gnome fails though with xserver-xgl?
<RAOF> Oooh, boy.  Not without logs, no.
<m1ndctrl> can you point me where to look other than xsession-errors?
<m1ndctrl> the error mentions debugging in gdb.. but i'd prefer to not venture there if possible
<RAOF> Oh, something's died with a X error?
<m1ndctrl> mind if I paste what it says here?
<RAOF> Yes.  Use a pastebin instead.
<RAOF> (It's the right thing to do anyway :))
<RAOF> paste.ubuntu.com is one such service.
<m1ndctrl> http://pastebin.com/cDA9HKvA
<m1ndctrl> sorry
<m1ndctrl> i just dumped my entire .xsession-errors
<RAOF> That's better than fine, that's good.  It's almost always undesirable to paste less than the full log ;)
<m1ndctrl> i execute this script in the gnome session I have configured (i just added a new entry as xgl.desktop to execute the following: http://pastebin.com/q5GNbged
<m1ndctrl> i've tried ommiting the --display=:0, i've also tried changing DISPLAY=:1 and doing --display=:1 but no luck.
<m1ndctrl> and as a random, sligtly humourous sidenote - when i execute glxgears X dies and i'm back at the login after it restarts.
<m1ndctrl> not sure if that tidbit is worth anything, but thought I'd throw it out there.
<RAOF> Hm.  That suggests that you're using nvidiaâ¦ what drivers?  All but the oldest nvidia drivers should be able to handle what you're doing without Xgl
<m1ndctrl> i'm using 195 drivers
<m1ndctrl> if i try it without xserver-xgl and i try and boot with each 2 twinviews and xinerama enabled I simply get a black screen and nothing else
<m1ndctrl> i'm thinking it's not a driver issue.. maybe I'm wrong,  I don't know - before it was running on the 173 drivers
<m1ndctrl> maybe i should give that a go
<m1ndctrl> but i'm not getting any X errors - just gnome...
<m1ndctrl> RAOF: still there?
<RAOF> m1ndctrl: I am now.
<m1ndctrl> ah k
<m1ndctrl> in case you missed:
<m1ndctrl>  m1ndctrl> i'm using 195 drivers
<m1ndctrl> 01:09 < m1ndctrl> if i try it without xserver-xgl and i try and boot with each 2 twinviews and xinerama enabled I simply get a black screen and nothing else
<m1ndctrl>  < m1ndctrl> i'm thinking it's not a driver issue.. maybe I'm wrong,  I don't know - before it was running on the 173 drivers
<m1ndctrl> 01:11 < m1ndctrl> maybe i should give that a go
<m1ndctrl> 01:12 < m1ndctrl> but i'm not getting any X errors - just gnome...
<RAOF> m1ndctrl: Those errors were gnome trying to use X features unsupported (or incorrectly supported) by Xgl.
<m1ndctrl> awww crap. that sounds bad.
<m1ndctrl> perhaps I could try downgrading gnome to the 8.04 version?
<RAOF> You could, I guess.  You might as well stay on 8.04 if you wanted to do that, though.
<m1ndctrl> agreed :) a realization that's coming to form now.
<m1ndctrl> however, my main reason for upgrading was due to transcoding issuse
<m1ndctrl> I transcode 1080p files to my ps3 across my network
<m1ndctrl> and 8.04 is slow
<m1ndctrl> my issues are resolved on 10.04
<m1ndctrl> transcodes much better
<m1ndctrl> i'm not sure why exactly... it's weird...
<m1ndctrl> i truly don't care about the xgl effects however running the regular metacity non composite session results in horrible refresh rates and rendering when i have a bunch of programs open
<m1ndctrl> something that simply doesnt happen with xgl
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> There might be some other craziness in your setup causing this.  What happens if you just run 2 separate X screens, each TwinView'd up?
<m1ndctrl> with xserver-xgl or without?
<RAOF> Without xserver-xgl
<m1ndctrl> with - nothing, same issue - xgl works - i can open all programs - but gnome wont start
<m1ndctrl> without - i get black screens across all four monitors
<m1ndctrl> they receive an input
<m1ndctrl> i see them all switch to dvi
<m1ndctrl> and then nothing - black screen - system idles
<RAOF> And if you only use two of the screens?
<m1ndctrl> works fine
<RAOF> And if you use three screens?
<RAOF> Or one screen from each GPU?
<m1ndctrl> 2 screens per gpu  - 4 screens total.
<m1ndctrl> so i do 2 x twinview then combine with xinerama
<m1ndctrl> so that I can move windows across all four.
<RAOF> I was under the impression that you could actually just use twinview for all four, although I've never had a dual-gpu system.
<m1ndctrl> i've tried it without using xinerama and it will work - however i'm limited to using the screens in pairs and not across all four
<m1ndctrl> this is why i use xinerama to bind them all together
<m1ndctrl> if i try with the regular xserver i receive the Xlib: missing RandR extension
<m1ndctrl> which i'm assuming is RandR not knowing how to handle two gpu's?
<RAOF> m1ndctrl: No, that's Xinerama disabling RandR.
<m1ndctrl> hmmm okay.
<m1ndctrl> I'm trying to revert to an older nvidia driver
<m1ndctrl> just to see if that resolves the issues
<m1ndctrl> if not - i'm gonna head to bed
<m1ndctrl> thanks for the help RAOF
<seb128> hey
<seb128> pitti, hello
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> nice to be here
<seb128> "here" being? ;-)
<pitti> in Leuven, meeting my friends again
<seb128> pitti, can you cancel today's meeting btw?
<seb128> oh, right
<pitti> I was going to ask you about it
<seb128> pitti, there is not a lot to discuss and half the team is not there or travelling
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> seb128: want me to send an announcement?
<seb128> rick said to cancel the meeting
 * pitti sends
<seb128> so if you could just drop an email to the team about it
<seb128> thanks
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs you back
<didrocks> good morning seb128, pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<baptistemm> Hello good morning
<didrocks> salut baptistemm
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so one user states the gnome-panel corruption is not ubuntu specific
<seb128> which is somewhat good to know, still no clue how to debug this one though
<rodrigo_> hi
<rodrigo_> where is the explanation for how to obtain a backtrace with apport?
<rodrigo_> to point a user to it
<pitti> didrocks: FYI, we do have util-linux-ng; we have nothing else :)
<pitti> didrocks: I'm interested in those udev-rules-netbook, how much black magic they do; I'm happy to review them and commit sensible changes to udev upstream
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the feedback ;) I'm updating the list now (my apt-cache search betrayed me ;))
<didrocks> pitti: you mean util-linux is util-linux-ng in fact?
<pitti> yes
<didrocks> ok, thanks for the info ;)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I remember seeing comments from you on bugs pointing users to a page to get a backtrace, where is that page?
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, btw :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<seb128> ?
<rodrigo_> ah, cool
<seb128> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/ApportRetraces
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, yeah, good thanks
<chrisccoulson> just catching up on e-mail now
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, good thanks. had quite a busy weekend
<seb128> work busy or real life busy? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - real life busy ;)
<chrisccoulson> i went to a wedding in scotland on saturday
<chrisccoulson> so there was quite a lot of driving
<seb128> I see
<seb128> good to spend a weekend away from computers before UDS ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i didn't go near my computer for 4 whole days ;)
<chrisccoulson> which is the longest i've been away for a long time
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, yeah, i'm ok thanks. how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<tseliot> pitti: bug #573557 seems like a serious issue to me and we have a patch from upstream. Do you mind if I file an SRU about it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573557 in nvidia-graphics-drivers "nvidia-current 195.36.15 + kernel 2.6.32 + dual cards crashes system" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573557
<pitti> tseliot: that'd be great, thanks! (well "file" -> use that bug)
<tseliot> pitti: yes, of course, I really meant to say "request" rather than "file"
<pitti> thanks tseliot
<tseliot> np
<pitti> lunch, bbl
<gicmo> mvo, sorry forgot to send logs yesterday
<gicmo> mvo, is it mvo@ubuntu.com?
<mvo> yes
<gicmo> mvo, should be out
<gicmo> *should*, I was fighting the LRZ yesterday ;-)
<mvo> thanks gicmo!
<mvo> gicmo: did you manage to recover it?
<gicmo> mvo, yep, sent from the recovered machine
<gicmo> mvo, thanks a bunch for the help
<mvo> gicmo: my pleasure
<mvo> gicmo: thanks, I have the logs
<mvo> gicmo: was there no newer kern.log ?
<mvo> Mar 13 is a bit outdated :)
<gicmo> oh, did I manage to add the wrong kern log?
<gicmo> wtf?
<gicmo> ok
<gicmo> momento
<gicmo> May  3 14:44:38 wachtler3 kernel: [  168.772213] python[1886]: segfault at 7f253031c190 ip 00007f253031c190 sp 00007fffdebc9bc8 error 15 in libQtGui.so.4.6.2[7f2530309000+3f000]
<gicmo> ahh that is more like it
<gicmo> mvo, should be out
<tseliot> pitti: ok, I have requested an SRU for #573557 and uploaded to lucid-proposed
<mvo> gicmo: many thanks!
<mvo> May  3 18:40:19 wachtler3 kernel: [14309.822181] python[2307]: segfault at 0 ip
<mvo> +(null) sp 00007fffaa6fb728 error 14 in python2.6[400000+21c000]
<mvo> gicmo: but nothing in /var/crash?
<gicmo> let me check
<gicmo> mvo, ah, that was the thing during my recovery process
<mvo> gicmo: aha, 18:00 is later, right
<gicmo> mvo, global.0.crash  nvidia-new-kernel-source-envy.0.crash
<mvo> gicmo: there is another one here:
<gicmo> are there
<gicmo> mvo, want both?
<mvo> just global.0.crash
<mvo> gicmo: that was a upgrade with kubuntu running?
<mvo> gicmo: or ubuntu running?
<gicmo> mvo, kubuntu dist but GNOME running
 * mvo nods
<gicmo> mvo, I also got an error from the nvidia package during upgrade
<gicmo> mvo, I clicked it away and  a bit later (not immediately) the machine crashed
<mvo> 2010-05-03 11:45:22,753 ERROR got an error from dpkg for pkg: 'nvidia-glx-new-envy': 'subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 2
<gicmo> well froze
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> :(
<gicmo> I'll get you both ;-)
<gicmo> mvo, are out
<mvo> gicmo: thanks, you rock! the info from the nvidia error is  helpful
<gicmo> mvo, I used to rock, I am more like an advanced-user currently ;-)
<gicmo> mvo, thanks for your help ;-)
<mvo> tseliot: hi, what can we do about the following error from nvidia-glx-new-envy for hardy -> lucid ugprades? http://paste.ubuntu.com/427588/ - the package is no longer in the archive, should we add u-m quirks for it?
<mvo> tseliot: bug #575077
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575077 in linux-restricted-modules-envy-2.6.24 "postrm script fails on hardy -> lucid ugprades" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575077
<tseliot> mvo: yes, maybe some logic in u-m would help
<mvo> tseliot: I think I have a simple workaround, testing it now
<tseliot> mvo: great, thanks
<mvo> did I ever mention that I dislike diverts ;)
<tseliot> mvo: which is why I removed them in lucid ;)
<mvo> !!!
<mvo> wonderful
<tseliot> :-)
<didrocks> taking the train, see you guys!
<pitti> bye didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: going to .be already?
<seb128> pitti, he is, joining the dx sprint tomorrow
<seb128> pitti, representing the desktop team there while we are at somehand then
<pitti> nice
<seb128> pitti, when do you arrive?
<seb128> tomorrow evening?
<pitti> seb128: probably around afternoon
<seb128> ok
<pitti> it's a local train from Leuven, just an hour
<pitti> I could almost come by bike :) (if I wouldn't have my luggage)
<seb128> book a taxi in advance, the hotel is not really walkable to
<seb128> and the train station is a small town one
<seb128> without waiting cabs
<pitti> they said there would be a shuttle tomorrow
<seb128> ok, good then ;-)
<pitti> seb128: do you still remember the gnomevfs equivalent of gvfs-monitor?
<pitti> gnomevfs-monitor wants an URI already
<pitti> oh, I figure I can use gthumb for testing
<dpm> ArneGoetje, pitti, seb128, I've scheduled a session for a roundtable Desktop-Translations at UDS. As you are the ones most involved with translations, may I ask you to subscribe and join the session? If you can't, feel free to propose someone else, it would be good to have a couple of people from the desktop team at least. The bp is here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-desktop-translations-roundtable Feel free to add new top
<dpm> ics or comments to the whiteboard as well
<seb128> pitti, gnomevfs-monitor ;-)
<seb128> pitti, what are you trying to do?
<pitti> Usage: gnomevfs-monitor <location>
<pitti> and if I do computer:/// or /, I don't get any changes with an USB stick
<seb128> pitti, oh you mean to monitor one file?
<pitti> no, monitor for new/removed drives/volumes
<seb128> I'm not sure those monitors do that
<pitti> that's what I figured
<seb128> they are file and directory monitors
<pitti> anyway, gthumb will do fine for testing
<seb128> ok
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<pitti> sudo dpkg -P libhal-storage1
<pitti> muhaha
<pitti> and just two remaining rdepends for libhal1
<pitti> argh, someone forgot to commit the last gnome-vfs change
 * pitti fixes
<seb128> pitti, if you want to do the pending update you can drop the change ;-)
<seb128> it's in the new version
<pitti> seb128: "pending update"?
<pitti> ah
<seb128> pitti, there is a 2.24.3
<pitti> seb128: two seconds after I pushed the debcommit -r :)
 * pitti uncommits
<seb128> pitti, you are on maverick merging mode already?
<pitti> argh, and needs to be merged as well
<pitti> seb128: some bits, yeah
<pitti> did cdbs and debhelper yesterday (toolchain)
<pitti> and fixed up gcc-4.5
<seb128> rock on :-)
<seb128> I SRU-ed the libgdata fix btw
<pitti> seb128: de-halification is on my personal TODO list, so I wanted to look into that now :)
<seb128> if you want to review that
<pitti> yep, saw it
<pitti> seb128: I'm inclined to drop our less important changes to the package, since it's barely used any more anyway; ok with you?
<seb128> pitti, yes, I want to try to get it out of the CD this cycle
<pitti> seb128: it's by and large evolution
<seb128> pitti, or don't bother merging with debian
<seb128> just do the update ;-)
<dpm> hey Keybuk, on the UDS session I was mentioning earlier I've also added a topic on what you pinged me about some days ago: "Common approach for building POT template on non-desktop packages using plain gettext instead of intltool, e.g. mountall, in the same way as CDBS GNOME packages use langpack.mk" Feel free to subscribe to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-desktop-translations-roundtable and join the session as well
<milanbv> what's the policy regarding the migration from network-admin/ifup to NetworkManager in Lucid?
<milanbv> since interfaces aren't shown anymore in network-admin, people are complaining
<milanbv> shouldn't we remove network-admin on upgrade?
<lool> didrocks: heya
<lool> didrocks: The mobile team seeks improvements to panel memory consumption or a replacement, especially for ARM; I wouldn't want this to be ARM-only, ideally all our netbook images would benefit; I've added you to the proposed spec https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl could you check with ogra whether you folks need to discuss anything before UDS?
<seb128> lool, he's in the train to Brussels
<ogra> note though that we might possibly only have plain framebuffer graphics and no HW accel
<ogra> oh
<lool> seb128: Pff these French guys always have cheap excuses
<seb128> lool, it doesn't seem something we would say no to but neither somebody we are likely to work on
<seb128> lool, note that GNOME has a gnome-panel dbus version in the work
<seb128> lool, could be worth to try how it behaves
<lool> seb128: Since 3 years?   ;-)
<lool> jk
<seb128> lool, no, it's in git, it has been done in the previous months it seems
<lool> seb128: What I care about here is more that we don't end up with desktop's panel and mobile's panel
<seb128> vuntz said he wanted to land that around now
<lool> Cool
<walters> i'd be shocked if the IPC had much to do with memory consumption
<walters> but apparently no one actually sits down and analyzes the heap, they just run "ldd | wc"
<walters> easy, simple, and wrong
<ogra> walters, no its surely not IPC ... there is just a lot of bloat started we dont need in the above case and while we want some of the indicator apllet stuff we dont really need gnome-panel or all of the libs sitting in ram on a 256M system without accelerated X
<walters> if you haven't done any actual measurements, you're very likely to be wrong about what's taking up space
<ogra> i have bootcharts that show the efl launcher being up after 15secs while the panel still loads things maxing out the CPU
<ogra> note that the stuff i'm talking about is nearly static and doesnt load much external libes
<ogra> *libs
<walters> now you're talking about startup speed, which is totally different from memory consumption
<walters> anyways...
<ogra> i'm talking about both :)
<ogra> there is some connection on an ARM system with 500MHz, 256M ram and running from SD ;)
<Nafai> morning
<rickspencer3> hi Nafai
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<Nafai> Hi rickspencer3, pitti
<rickspencer3> pitti, turns out tremolux started yesterday!
<rickspencer3> I thought he was starting next week :/
<pitti> tremolux: oh, welcome!
<tremolux> pitti, rickspencer3:  thanks!
<pitti> tremolux: you'll be the new software-center hero, right?
<rickspencer3> tremolux, can you fill pitti in on your plans for this week?
<Nafai> tremolux: new on our team?
<tremolux> pitti: hehe, that's the plan  :)
<tseliot> tremolux: hey, is this permanent?
<tseliot> or a rotation?
<tremolux> Nafai, tseliot: yep, at the end of my rotation I moved full-time to desktop to continue working on software-center
<seb128> tremolux, hi!
<tremolux> seb128: howdy!
 * ogra applauds tremolux 
<tremolux> haha, thanks everyone
<tseliot> tremolux: ah, congrats then :-)
<tremolux> I'm very pleased to be here, thanks everybody
<Nafai> tremolux: Awesome, welcome!
<Nafai> Look forward to meeting you next week!
<chrisccoulson> welcome tremolux :)
<tremolux> Nafai: me too  :)
<tremolux> chrisccoulson: thanks Chris  :)
<pitti> good night everyone!
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<Nafai> night!
<glatzor> bye pitti !
<seb128> time to go there too
<seb128> bye
<dobey> kenvandine: ping?
<Nafai> lunching
<dobey> pitti: are you around, or travelling (or preparing to travel) to BRU?
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: have you seen rick?
<chrisccoulson> jcastro, he was online earlier
<jcastro> there's a desktop Q+A session for openweek in 4 minutes
<dobey> jcastro: he's probably on a plane?
<seb128> jcastro, we are there
<jcastro> oh ok
<dobey> oh
<seb128> jcastro, rick tries to get online
<jcastro> who is representing the team so we can add voice?
<seb128> jcastro, we do a desktop team joined session
<seb128> didrocks, rickspencer, me
<jcastro> ok
<seb128> jcastro, rick is there
<jcastro> whoo hoo!
<jcastro> ok the +v's will get fixed here in a minute
<Nafai> back
<ccheney> anyone know if bug 574050 is an upstream issue or something to do with our integration?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574050 in totem "totem detects HDV video but doesn't seem to know it can play it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574050
<ccheney> i'm pretty sure its not really totem at fault but is it gstreamer in general, or something else?
<Nafai> no clue from me :)
<Nafai> though it does seem related to gstreamer
<ccheney> would it be gstreamer at fault for not knowing it already could play the file and then in totems case actually play it anyway
<ccheney> seems like maybe pitivi may be doing some additional checking and refusing to import, instead of just going along like totem does
<seb128> ccheney, upstream issue in any case we do no change there
<ccheney> seb128: ok
<seb128> try #gstreamer for questions though or #pitivi if that's a pitivi issue
<ccheney> seb128: seems to be rooted in gstreamer issue and pitivi probably is just using return codes from gstreamer properly while totem isn't (pure guess on my part)
<ccheney> it complains but works in totem and complains and refuses to do anything in pitivi
<dobey> seb128: hey. do you think it would be possible to get ubuntuone-client 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 into -updates from -proposed? the bug has been changed to verification-done
<seb128> dobey, when did it get uploaded? pitti reviews the queue almost daily but standard delay is 7 days
<dobey> seb128: originally on Apr 21, as the patch was supposed to go into lucid final, but apparently there was some confusion with the upload queue then, and the older verseion got accepted to lucid. i think it made it to -proposed "5 days ago" according to LP
<seb128> ok, so 2 extra days
<dobey> ok :-/
<asac> hmm ... do we know if mvo disabled the hardy -> intrepid upgrade path?
<asac> i mean intrepid is EOL ... does its archive still exist?
<jpds> asac: It's been moved to old-releases shortly.
<asac> hmm ... but do we still offer the hardy->intrepid>jaunty ... upgrade path?
<asac> or just hardy -> lucid LTS/LTS upgrades?
<jpds> asac: Interesting point.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-05
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> dobey: hello
<baptistemm> hi pitti
<pitti> bonjour baptistemm! comment vas-tu?
<baptistemm> I'm fine
<baptistemm> you work early
<baptistemm> perhaps I could ask you a question about a bluez problem that might be related to dbus
<pitti> baptistemm: I'm not very bluez literate, but I'll try :)
<baptistemm> about bug 533730, I don't understand why the reporter has the error "Method "RegisterAgent" with signature "os" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist" this method should exist on the default adapter
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533730 in gnome-bluetooth "All widgets and actions are disabled." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533730
<pitti> baptistemm: it might be a race condition on dbus activation?
<pitti> baptistemm: (I assume that the signature is correct?)
<pitti> baptistemm: it'd be worth trying to launch bluezd manually in a foreground terminal, ensure that it's running, and then run bluetooth-applet -d
<pitti> and check if it's still the same error
<baptistemm> perhaps I should use dbus-monitor to trace dbus traffic?
<baptistemm> I tried to play with it yesterday but I didn't succeed to have sensible so I end up using 'dbus-monitor | grep org.bluez' :)
<pitti> you can do that, but at this point it rather looks like a startup problem
<baptistemm> yeah, okay, I thought I already asked to do that, but apparently i mixed up with another bug
<baptistemm> thanks
<seb128> mvo, opening duplicates, no tea for you today!
<baptistemm> hello seb128
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<seb128> pitti, guten tag
<seb128> pitti, did you move updates to -updates?
<pitti> yes, a few
<seb128> <cool
<seb128> I was not sure I though we still had one day to go for those
<seb128> thanks ;-
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> np :)
<seb128> mvo, the issue you are having seems to be bug #553162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector "GDM and language-selector should agree on setting the LANG variable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553162
<seb128> bug #575591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575591 in gdm "Does not set LANGUAGE on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575591
<seb128> pitti, did you spent some time looking to those LANG LANGUAGE mismatch issues?
<pitti> not yet
<pitti> it's not a regression, after all
<pitti> just something not perfectly working yet
<seb128> pitti, not sure, it seems people get half english half their locale desktop where they used to have a proper translated GNOME before updating to lucid
<seb128> see the bug from mvo there
<pitti> seb128: which is mvo's?
<seb128> pitti, bug #575591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575591 in gdm "Does not set LANGUAGE on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575591
<mvo> seb128, pitti: happend on my wifes machine
<seb128> mvo, how many wifes do you have now? ;-)
<seb128> mvo, scnr
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> she was using german before the upgrade and after the gnome bits are english
<mvo> *pfff* ;)
<pitti> mvo: what is your $LANGUAGE?
<pitti> gdm isn't supposed to change $LANGUAGE, it doesn't have controls for it
<seb128> it's not clear to me if the issue is language selector or gdm
<mvo> pitti: LANGUAGE=en_DK (that is the system wide setting and what I use)
<pitti> it's something that we added to language-selector, and once you do that you have to keep using it, I'm afraid
<pitti> mvo: this is broken
<seb128> but seems quite some users are being bitten by it
<pitti> mvo: but if your LANGUAGE is "en", your desktop should be in English
<mvo> so gdm can't unset/change LANGUAGE?
<seb128> why did we made l-s set LANGUAGE?
<pitti> seb128: it's language-selector and gdm beign differently flexible
<mvo> well, I want my desktop to be english
<mvo> but she does not want that
<mvo> I also want the system wide default to be english
<seb128> seems to me that l-s should let LANGUAGE alone tghere
<pitti> for now she'd need to run language-selector herself to set LANGUAGES to "de"
<pitti> seb128: it was a new feature in lucid, to be able to set $LANGUAGES separately
<mvo> hrm, I know how to fix it, but that is not a good solution for everyone
<pitti> (and it has been requested for ages)
<mvo> especially since it was working in karmic
<pitti> mvo: well, you couldn't set $LANGUAGE in the first place :)
<pitti> karmic's gdm did set $LANGUAGE, yes
<pitti> but that screwed up legitimate use cases
<pitti> (it actually set it to something completely broken)
<pitti> I don't currently see an easy solution for this, I'm afraid
<mvo> I didn't do anything with lucid language selector
<pitti> this requires a long and in-depth discussion
<mvo> it used the karmic settings and did something with it
<seb128> it seems that was "working" in karmic because gdm was overwritting LANGUAGE (in a buggy way though)
<mvo> its a corner case setup, but for the people using it it is a regression IMO
<seb128> not sure what to do on upgrade
<pitti> seb128, mvo: FYI, gdm screwing up $LANGUAGE caused bug 407300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407300 in ubuntu-translations "/etc/gdm/Xsession breaks LANGUAGE" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407300
 * mvo looks
<pitti> LANGUAGE="$LANG"
<pitti> no matter how you want to have the system work, but this was absolutely and entirely screwed
<mvo> yeah, that is totally wrong
<mvo> but https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/407300/comments/6 describes exactly the problem I have
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407300 in ubuntu-translations "/etc/gdm/Xsession breaks LANGUAGE" [Low,Confirmed]
<pitti> one solution would be to add yet another widget to gdm to be able to change $LANGUAGES (but ugh complex)
<mvo> could we simply "if GDM_LANG != LANG: unset(LANGUAGE)"?
<pitti> another one to remove $LANGUAGES if you change it in gdm
<pitti> something like that, yes
<mvo> why another widget?
<seb128> no other widget no
<mvo> the user says "I want german, not english"
<pitti> mvo: gdm doesn't have a languages selector
<pitti> it has a locale selector
<seb128> users don't know what a locale is
<seb128> they use that as a language selector
<pitti> they do, they just don't know the name for it :)
<seb128> right ;-)
<pitti> users complain very loudly if their date for numbers are misformatted
<pitti> or paper formats, etc :)
<seb128> well they want the standard set for their country
<pitti> right, so you need a country as well
<seb128> ideally you need a country "only" no "as well"
<seb128> not
<pitti> you also need a language
<pitti> seb128: you currently are in a country where that matters a lot :)
<seb128> grumpf, yes ;-)
<seb128> I'm wondering how other os-es deal with that
<pitti> seb128: langpack solution #6, I say
<seb128> well ideally you want one list
<mvo> I still don't get it (sorry). LANGUAGE is useful beyond the ability to give a fallback language? in gdm I can choose "german (germany)" or "german (belgium)". so it will setup LC_* correctly, no?
<seb128> with things like "Belgium - wallons (french speaking)"
<mvo> why do I need LANGUAGE for anything other then the fallback ?
<pitti> mvo: $LANGUAGES is useful if you want a different desktop translation than locale
<pitti> mvo: e. g. most Scandinavian folks, or even you, want their desktop to be in English
<pitti> but still want a correct sv_SE or de_DE locale for paper format, time, etc.
<pitti> (this is also a very popular setup in the CJK areas)
<mvo> but shouldn't these people use language-selector than? because they know they want something that is not covered by the widget in gdm?
<pitti> the other use is that you can define different fallbacks
<pitti> if I speak French better than English, I can set $LANGUAGES=de:fr:en
<mvo> whereas people like me do not know this?
<pitti> mvo: exactly
<pitti> those people have set $LANGUAGES in the past at some point
<pitti> which karmic and earlier didn't provide an UI for
<pitti> mvo: I think the GDM_LANG != LANG -> unset LANGUAGES is a reasonable approach
<mvo> aha, I get it now
<pitti> mvo: so in your case it would have probably been more polite to set LANGUAGES in your ~/.profile only, not system-wide
<mvo> pitti: yeah, because when we do this, most users with the previous setup that manually added LANGUAGE will not affected
<mvo> pitti: the odd thing is that I never touched the lucid version of language-selector
<mvo> pitti: so either it was there before
<mvo> pitti: or it wrote/updated it on upgrade
<pitti> mvo: right, I suppose it was there way before
<pitti> by default l-s also just writes to ~/.profile
<mvo> pitti: I do want it the system wide default, just not for my wife :)
<pitti> and en_DK is an invalid value, too
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> joy!
<pitti> mvo: then set it in ~wife/.profile ?
<pitti> mvo: for your wife that workaround wouldn't even help then, though
<mvo> right, *I* know how to fix it, but I doubt most other users will know
<pitti> since I suppose she also uses de_DE.utf8
<mvo> yes
<pitti> thus GDM_LANG == LANG
<mvo> I did not setup anything for her in her  ~/.profile
<mvo> I used the GUI for all language releated settings
<mvo> gdm for german
<mvo> and l-s for the system default
<mvo> so the workaround should work
<didrocks> lool: ok, I'll see if there is something conflicting in the schedule and see with ogra
<ogra> didrocks, awesome, thanks
<mvo> pitti: thanks for updating the bug, I assume you are at somehands, so if you are too busy I'm happy to look into this and prepare a SRU (if the unset solution looks good enough)
<pitti> mvo: I duped your bug and currently updating the master one
<pitti> mvo: SH> I will be
<pitti> I'm still in Leuven at some friends of mine
<pitti> I'll come over around noon
<mvo> aha, ok, even better :)
<mvo> just let me know if your time does not permit it and I will try to make room for it
<pitti> mvo: I did a braindump to the bug now
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/553162/comments/10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553162 in language-selector "Unset $LANGUAGES if the user picks a different locale in gdm" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mvo> seb128: what do you think about a "use compiz-from-debian" session?
<mvo> seb128: or blueprint, not sure we need a session
<seb128> mvo, blueprint, no session
<seb128> it's a matter of just doing it I think
<mvo> yeah,
<mvo> i think its uncontroversial
<pitti> . o O { not-use-compiz ? }
<seb128> pitti, who need a wm when you can switch between nice kms vts?
<pitti> seb128: once you finally upload gtk-asciiart, we won't :)
 * pitti remembers those Turbo Vision times
<seb128> mvo, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-overriding-defaults-on-upgrade
<seb128> mvo, you might want to subscribe to this one?
<mvo> seb128: thanks, done. isn't that more of a gconf problem? i.e. if you set your preference back to default should it still be a user pref or should it considered "unset" again
<mvo> seb128: do we have good examples ?
<seb128> mvo, themes?
<seb128> mvo, it might be mainly gconf yes, but I want to use the session to discuss how we handle cleanly user config changes on upgrade
 * mvo nods
<seb128> mvo, ie like adding indicators to gnome-panel
<mvo> lets add some examples
<mvo> theme
<mvo> indicators
<mvo> etc
<seb128> I don't like the current "add an autostart which check a gconf key until end of time or later"
<seb128> mvo, feel free to edit the summary ;-)
<mvo> no permissions, but I can edit the whiteboard
<seb128> oh, let me add the examples
<seb128> you did in the whiteboard, seems good enough
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you too?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm good too thanks
<seb128> getting ready for uds? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> mvo - did asac ask you whether we are still concerned about making hardy->intrepid->jaunty->karmic->lucid upgrades work, or just hardy->lucid?
<seb128> thanks for doing some desktop bug triage yesterday btw
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - sort of ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've got loads of bug mail i need to work through at some point
<mvo> chrisccoulson: he did not
<mvo> chrisccoulson: what is the context? I mostly care about karmic->lucid and hardy->lucid currently, but if there is a specific issue or low-hanging fruit I'm open
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i'm working on the ff3.6 backport for hardy currently. if we only care about hardy->lucid upgrades, then that makes my job for hardy much easier
<chrisccoulson> but if not, then i'll have to do the work for karmic, jaunty and intrepid first
<chrisccoulson> which complicates things ;)
<chrisccoulson> and i'd rather not do anything on intrepid
<mvo> chrisccoulson: I can not see why someone would want to upgrade from hardy to intrepid at this point really, we should not even offer the upgrade anymore
<chrisccoulson> mvo - that's what i want to hear :)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<mvo> chrisccoulson: I will check that now (that we don't actually offer the upgrade)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<mvo> well, in a little bit, need to prepare a SRU first :)
<milanbv> ugh... I hope I'm wrong, but...
<milanbv> isn't our /etc/dbus-1/system.d/xorg-server.conf completely wrong with interfaces?!
<milanbv> <allow send_interface="org.x.config.display0"/> will allow this interface on *all* objects
<milanbv> that was bug 318753...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 318753 in network-manager "D-Bus Policy needs checking" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318753
<qense> Is there really no way of passing a Python list over DBus that contains lists containing both integers and strings?
<qense> Ah, 'vÂ´
<nigelbabu> seb128: whats you're take on bug 508632? Are we going to include the patch for maverick?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508632 in nautilus "[FFe] Toggle button for Nautilus location field gone" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508632
<seb128> nigelbabu, no
<seb128> it's not a bug it's an upstream decision
<nigelbabu> seb128: can you comment on it so I can reject the patch?
<seb128> I already did
<nigelbabu> then close to wont fix?
<seb128> not recently but I don't see the point to keep arguing with users who don't want to listen
<seb128> I don't care enough to start a bug closing war, we will get the change if upstream does it
<nigelbabu> what would you want me to do? ask the patch author to forward upstream and hear their take? (it sounds kinda ironic)
<nigelbabu> seb128: thank you, I came across this during patch review
<nigelbabu> since you commented on it, I just wanted your take :)
<seb128> nigelbabu, it's up to you to know what you want to do
<seb128> nigelbabu, I would just stay out of the discussion
<nigelbabu> I've directed everything upstream
<seb128> use whatever tag is not used to say we are not going to use the change unless upstream does
<nigelbabu> ok :)
<pitti> I'm off now for going to La Hulpe; see you there!
<pitti> seb128: you are at the sprint, I take it?
<pitti> (for saying hello, etc.)
<seb128> pitti, yes, but feel free to jump in when you arrive
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll go back to IRC once I'm there, and prod you :)
 * pitti waves
<seb128> pitti, ok, have a safe trip, see you soon
<baptistemm> hmmm, I've no sound in mysession, and the sound capplet lists me no audio device, just a dummy one
<seb128> baptistemm, buy a soundcard ;-)
<asac> mvo: the question was really: do we still offer the upgrade path to intrepid
<asac> i hoped we didnt but wanted to get a confirm on that one
<mvo> asac: we do right now, but I want to fix this today and give people lucid instead
<asac> mvo: isnt intrepid already moved out of the archive?
<asac> to old releases or somehting?
<mvo> not yet
<mvo> but it will be very soon I expect
<asac> yeah. ok
<asac> please make that happen quickly ;) ...
<asac> otherwise we have to roll everything at once ... now we can just upgrade hardy to 3.6 and leave jaunty/karmic at 3.5 which is still supported for a few weeks
<mvo> jaunty will be support for 6 more month and karmic for 12m, no?
<asac> mvo: right
<asac> mvo: situation is like this: hardy has ffox 3.0 -> EOL upstream ... jaunty/karmic have 3.5 -> still supported ... lucid has 3.6
<asac> so fi upgrade path through jaunty is still supported we first have to update jaunty/karmic before we can update 3.0 to 3.6
<asac> if not, we can focus on hardy for now ... which would be much better
<baptistemm> seb128, I do have one
<mvo> asac: aha, it would be nice to support jaunty, but its not super important
<mvo> karmic we definitely need to support
<baptistemm> seb128, it is listed as alsa layer but not at pa layer
<mvo> asac: intrepid EOL, so no worries
<asac> mvo: we are supporting that ;) ... its just that we dont need to hurry and upgrade jaunty/karmic to 3.6 in order to upgrade hardy if we dont offer upgrades to intrepid anymore
<asac> mvo: or do you want to offer hardy -> jaunty upgrades?
<asac> i would hope just lucid
<chrisccoulson> asac - jaunty also has 3.0 (3.5 is only in universe) :(
<mvo> asac: no, just hardy->lucid
<asac> yeah
<asac> chrisccoulson: bummer thats bad :/
<milanbv> how are users supposed to configure their serial/usb 56k old-style modems in Lucid? network-admin lost its tab to do it, and ModemManager doesn't support them?
<milanbv> who's supposed to know how all of this works? ;-)
<milanbv> if that's the case, we may need to bring back network-admin's tab...
<milanbv> asac_: thoughts on this? ^
<asac> milanbv: network-admin doesnt exist anymore, does it?
<asac> we definitly dont want to have that installed by default
<milanbv> no, it's not installed by default
<milanbv> and the Connections tab has been removed
<milanbv> the problem is,
<milanbv> 1) docs still mention it for modems
<milanbv> 2) there doesn't seem to be a way to configure traditional modems in Lucid anymore
<asac_> milanbv: yeah. modemmanager should get plain modem support. its not a big deal, but noone does that as the amount of users that need it seems to be really smallish
<asac_> contributions welcome
<benjamintheyon> Didn't see it in the channel info - is this the Desktop team as in desktop release of ubuntu or graphical desktop? I'm a new jack,  tryna find my way around.
<milanbv> asac_: sure, in the long run we want modem-manager
<milanbv> but for lucid, what's the best solution: completely lose modem support and remove the docs, or bring back the Connections tab?
<milanbv> (UbuntuStudio seems to require that tab too)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, around?
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: I seem to not have permissions to push to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/couchdb-glib/ubuntu/, I thought I got permissions now that I had upload rights?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, you are not in the ubuntu-desktop team
<seb128> rodrigo_, we should move that to the canonical location I think
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, so still need to propose branches for merging?
<seb128> we should change the bzr to not be in our team I guess
<seb128> I don't think it's going to happen this week though
<seb128> since people are travelling and some going to somehand etc
<rodrigo_> ok, np, I've got instructions from kenvandine on how to upload, and he told me to push to trunk once uploaded
<rodrigo_> I'll propose the branch for merging
<rodrigo_> seb128, another question :) where are the karmic package branches?
<seb128> depends, we don't have a strict policy, often we don't bother doing a stable serie
<seb128> ie we just do change and upload to ubuntu without using a vcs
<seb128> or we use trunk as long as there is not a newer version
<rodrigo_> for couchdb-glib, trunk already refers to maverick, so I guess it was branched?
<Nafai> morning
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, lp:~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/couchdb-glib/karmic has the tarball's source code, isn't there a similar karmic branch with just debian/ dir, as lp:~ubuntu-desktop/couchdb-glib/ubuntu?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no idea, I don't work on this source
<seb128> the first one is an auto import of uploads I guess
<rodrigo_> pitti, ^^ ?
<seb128> the second one is the packaging one
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah
<seb128> ie what we work on
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, but I need to submit a change to karmic package, so looking for the package branch
<rodrigo_> doesn't seem to exist, or can't find it
<seb128> as said before we often don't bother doing a stable vcs
<seb128> especially that we didn't upload anything yet newer that lucid
<seb128> oh karmic
<seb128> well usually we get the source, do the change and upload
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah
<seb128> we not have a common defined workflow for stable series
<seb128> some people might make stable series
<seb128> we usually don't bother for desktop, stable doesn't change a lot
<cjohnston> thanks sabdfl !
<sabdfl> cjohnston: that was entertaining :-)
<cjohnston> I missed half of it.. :-/ at work today
<cjohnston> looks like all went well though
<jcastro> mdeslaur, what was that gwibber bug again?
<mdeslaur> jcastro:: 552227
<Nafai> jcastro: should I attempt to re-register or should I wait?
<jcastro> Nafai, yeah try now please
<jcastro> Nafai, sorry for the inconvenience
<Nafai> no prob :)
<Nafai> lunch / errands
<Nafai> I just checked the UDS schedule before I left
<Nafai> someone scheduled my two sessions (from my assigned blueprints) back to back! :)
<Nafai> back
<RAOF> Morning funky people.
 * bryceh waves
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-06
<RAOF> bryceh: Good morning!  How's launchpad? :)
<Nafai> well that was annoying
<Nafai> my internet connection was down for a couple hours
<RAOF> For any interesting reason?  Did an elephant escape from the zoo and run amok, knocking down power lines and telephone cables? :)
<nigelbabu> heya bryceh
<Nafai> RAOF: I haven't heard the reason.  The home owner's association for the condo I rent pays for the connection, so I don't know any details
<bryceh> RAOF, I finally got it up and running (more or less) on my own hardware
<bryceh> mostly I'm reading and reading and reading
<RAOF> I understand that it's surprisingly difficult to setup a launchpad instance.
<jpds> ./rocketfuel-setup; cd launchpad/devel; make run ?
<RAOF> Nafai: Tell them to make something up involving elephants :)
<bryceh> mostly it's scripted, so most of the time is figuring out why the scripts failed with some obscure error
<RAOF> The *best kind* of mostly scripted :)
<lifeless> RAOF: hows middle island?
<RAOF> lifeless: Pretty good.  Our stuff arrived yesterday, so there's a chance that I can set up my desk & comfy chair just in time to leave for Brussels!
<RAOF> Sampling the many and varied breads available.
<nigelbabu> anyone seen chris?
<nigelbabu> bryceh: did u check out patch day?
<chrisccoulson> nigelbabu, which chris? there are lots of us here...
<bryceh> nigelbabu, no I forgot.. how'd it turn out?
<nigelbabu> chrisccoulson: oh, you :)
<nigelbabu> bryceh: still going on, 50%+ DONE!
<nigelbabu> 185 down to 82
<bryceh> nice!
<bryceh> nigelbabu, I think it'll make a big difference
<nigelbabu> bryceh: hopefully :)
<nigelbabu> chrisccoulson: that ltsp bug... wanted to talk to you about that
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> that bug again ;)
<nigelbabu> hehe
<nigelbabu> you still have concerns with that patch right?
<chrisccoulson> nigelbabu, yeah, the patch was wrong the last time i looked at it
<chrisccoulson> and i don't think that has changed
<nigelbabu> chrisccoulson: ok, so I'll leave the patch-needswork.  btw lxde seems to have had a similar solution comitted
<chrisccoulson> ok, thanks
<baptistemm> hello
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, yeah, i'm good thanks. pretty busy though
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine too. Busy at the dx sprint :)
<chrisccoulson> excellent
<joaopinto> argh, the theme random failing theme load bug is really annoying, does anyone know a master bug and if it's already reported upstream ?
<chrisccoulson> what bug is that? are you sure it's not just g-s-d crashing?
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, I am not sure is crashing, I am sure it's failing to start
<chrisccoulson> if it's failing to start, it generally means it is crashing in some way ;)
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, it's failing for me on >50% of my boots, re-login usually fixs it, so it's likely to be a race condition on the first login only
<joaopinto> ah ok
<joaopinto> I only have this issue on my desktop, neved had on the laptop
<joaopinto> I mean, most likely to happen on the first login
<joaopinto> I have filed the bug 574296, but I guess I am not alone and there are already previous bug reports for this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574296 in gnome-session "Gnome theme not applied on session start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574296
<joaopinto> I no longer can show ubuntu booting to my friends, since it's likely to fail from the start :P
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, should I set ulimit -c and try to capture a coredump ? assuming g-s-d is crashing ?
<chrisccoulson> you could just enable apport and let that catch it
<joaopinto> ok, changing /etc/default/apport and rebooting
<joaopinto> hum, failed to load, no crash report
<joaopinto> ulimit -c is still reporting 0
<chrisccoulson> joaopinto, ~/.xsession-errors will probably contain a clue
<joaopinto> The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error.
<joaopinto> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
<joaopinto> The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.
<chrisccoulson> so, it's crashing ;)
<chrisccoulson> apport should catch that sort of crash no problem, but you need to run g-s-d with the --sync option
<joaopinto> but apport did not catch it, and it doesn't seem enabled because of the ulimit -c value
<chrisccoulson> and you can do that by editing the desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart
<joaopinto> ok, now i just need to figure how to enable apport :)
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, appport is catching segmentation faults, tested it manually, but it not catch anything for the g-s-d error
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, when you mean it crashes it is expected to be a segmentation fault ?
<chrisccoulson> it won't be a segmentation fault, it will probably be a SIGABRT
<joaopinto> and apport should catch that ?
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, sh -c 'kill -ABRT $$' does not trigger apport
<chrisccoulson> joaopinto, i don't know why that doesn't work for you then, but i just tried it and it works as expected
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, I think I didn't have the --sync yet, I will try to reproduce now, tks
<vish> mpt_: hey! meeting time ;)
<dpm> hi pitti, can I ask you to move the current language packs in lucid-proposed to lucid-updates? We talked about this last week. That's about the langpacks in -updates being the ones we wanted to ship for the release but an older export being used by mistake instead
<dpm> ArneGoetje, ^
<pitti> dpm: yep, can do
<dpm> thanks a lot pitti
<pitti> running
<dpm> cool
<Nafai> good morning
<dobey> hola
<dobey> for the "upstream link" on the package series in ubuntu, is there any way to actually specify the right series? i only see a way to set the project, but not the series on the project.
 * ccheney thinks he is finally going to be selling his old home today :)
<Nafai> running some errands, bbl
<duanedesign> didrocks: i see some work was done on the OneConf blueprint. Nice!
<didrocks> duanedesign: sweet, did you see that's it's currently schedule on Monday (can still move)? :)
<duanedesign> didrocks: Monday will be great
<duanedesign> didrocks: we got stipple set up using plugIns so we can easily add and subtract features.
<didrocks> it's in the afternoon for us, so should be good for you too
<didrocks> duanedesign: great, I'll have a look at that tomorrow
<duanedesign> didrocks: also got started on CouchDB attachments. That way we can save the vim folder with the .vimrc for example
<didrocks> duanedesign: I guess my script will be good for you to include, but we can see how stipple and oneconf can interact
<duanedesign> didrocks: yeah I put it in for now
<didrocks> yeah, it will be great to advise using stipple for advanced users
<duanedesign> didrocks: but as a plug in
<didrocks> ok :)
<duanedesign> didrocks: that way as oneConf comes on line we can easily adjust to fill a need if it exists
<didrocks> duanedesign: right, but OneConf will be installed by default if it get accepted. Not sure that we want all the Stipple content. Hence the fact I was thinking that for me oneconf is automatic and will require low user interaction and stipple is the CLI tool "to get more"
<duanedesign> didrocks: I agree
<duanedesign> didrocks: I put package sync in as a plug in but will likely take it out when OneConf gets accepted.
<didrocks> duanedesign: great and I'm interested to develop some stuff that doesn't fit in OneConf in stipple too :)
<duanedesign> dont want to confuse users. Plus I imagine your effort will be much better than anything I could put together :)
<didrocks> don't say that ;)
<didrocks> I'll have to go, see you!
<duanedesign> ok bye didrocks
 * Amaranth wonders why seb128 would think bug 576059 would be compiz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576059 in compiz "Gnome focus problem / hanging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576059
<Amaranth> oh well, bounced back
<Nafai> back around
<enzomag> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-07
<baptistemm> hello
<baptistemm> pitti, hello
<baptistemm> pitti, is seems a fix for bug 444420 created a problem for other logitech users (bug 550288)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444420 in udev "USB logitech bluetooth doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550288 in bluez "bluez fails to discover mx5000 keyboard and mouse" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550288
 * baptistemm is upgrading to 10.04 LTS
<baptistemm> no one today
<RAOF> Many people are travelling, or at summits, or UX sprints, orâ¦ :)
<baptistemm> okay
<Nafai> morning
<Nafai> I'm going to be in and out today trying to get ready to travel
<pipepupo> Good afternoon. I had install Ubuntu 10.04 and works fine, but when I select the Windows Vista in ->GRUB is showed error: "Not found hal.dll"
<pipepupo> How I can fix it?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-08
<egroeg> hello
<egroeg> i'm looking for a way to have menu items text only -- before upgrading to 10.04 i did not have these icons in the menu bar
<egroeg> gconf-editor settings for menus_have_icons is not being honored
<egroeg> or if anyone has some search terms that could put me on the right path it would be much appreciated
<duanedesign> hello egroeg
<duanedesign> egroeg: turning off 'menus_have_icons' got rid of a few icons for me.
<egroeg> its weird the system menu has no icons, but everywhere else the icons are present.  i also have a big downward pointing icon next to applications?
<egroeg> i've spend alot of time getting a minimal theme void of icons
<egroeg> so i wont feel at home until i rid theme of my system
<duanedesign> egroeg: if you right click on the menus and select the Help menu >5.4Customizing the Panel Menubar > System Administration Guide > Editing System Menus
<duanedesign> I found some interesting info there^^
<egroeg> duanedesign: thanks! (rtfm i guess) :-)
<duanedesign> egroeg: :) your welcome.
<egroeg> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-09
<Nafai> silly google thinking I speak dutch
<qense> Nafai: not een French? ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-02
<TheMuso> Woa! Oneiric open already. That was quick./
<lifeless> how long would you like it to take?
<TheMuso> I don't care how long it takes  or how short a time it takes, I'm just used to it being half a week or so.
<jbicha> yeah I'm used it to taking a few days but it was open within hours of release
<TheMuso> RAOF: When you use tmpfs for sbuild, do you give any particular mount options for the tmpfs filesystem?
<RAOF> TheMuso: ânone on /var/lib/schroot/union/tmpfs-overlay type tmpfs (rw)â.  So, no :)
<RAOF> TheMuso: Are you seeing some problem?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Ah ok, you use a unionfs setup for it as well?
<TheMuso> RAOF: No, I'm looking to set it up.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah.  aufs merges the chroot underlay and the tmpfs overlay.
<TheMuso> Now that I have more RAM in my desktop, I can use some of it for fast building.
<RAOF> :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Is there a guide on how to do this somewhere?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Not that I'm aware of, no.
<TheMuso> Ah ok
<RAOF> http://paste.ubuntu.com/602092/ is my relevant sbuild-natty-amd64 snippet in /etc/schroot/chroot.d
<TheMuso> ah ok thanks
<RAOF> The top entry is exactly what mk-sbuild produces, the subsequent entries are that + customisations.
<TheMuso> SO which one of the tmpfs ones do you use, or do you use all of them?
<RAOF> I use all of them.
<RAOF> There are basically two variants there; natty-amd64 and natty-local-amd64, and both of those has a tmpfs and non-tmpfs config.
<RAOF> natty-amd64 is simple.  natty-local-amd64 is natty-amd64 + a local repository of my build output, which makes it nice for X transitions.
<TheMuso> ok thought as much.,
<TheMuso> I am going to leverage this a little differently.
<TheMuso> A combination of tmpfs overlay, or LVM snapshots.
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> Incidentally, if you're interested in local-packages, it just containst http://paste.ubuntu.com/602098/ as fstab and http://paste.ubuntu.com/602099/ as config
<TheMuso> oh ok thanks.
<TheMuso> I think mk-sbuild-lv needs to be extended to do all this stuff I think.
<RAOF> Yeah, probably.
<RAOF> Now that I *look* at local-packages it's entirely possible to make mk-sbuild-lv do a tmpfs overlay really easily.
<RAOF> Build-against-built-packages is a little bit more difficult, as it requires bind-mounting the build output directory somewhere.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Probably recommending/checking that the user has minimum 2GB RAM, maybe more.
<TheMuso> Hoowaaahh! THis kicks LVM snapshots to the curbe and back 5 times over. :)
<TheMuso> s/c
<TheMuso> I guess my only other question is whether the RAM allocated to tmpfs can be used for other things if needed without having to unmount the tmpfs.
<TheMuso> But a good google should answer that.
<TheMuso> Ah, dynamically allocated.
<TheMuso> Thats good.
<RAOF> It'll by default only grow to 50% of your total ram.  That can be a bit annoying.
<TheMuso> Yeah I see that. Well my desktop and new thinkpad both have 8GB, so I don't think that will be a problem for a while.
<TheMuso> I also plan to set up VMs for some various testing a11y wise, so that RAM will be gobbled up in various ways in time.
<RAOF> Yeah, and you're not building mesa or the kernel.
<TheMuso> Yup.
<RAOF> For sufficiently small things (most of the mono packages we have) I've benchmarked building on tmpfs to be ~3 times faster than the lvm snapshot route.  dpkg really, *really* likes unpacking on a tmpfs :)
<TheMuso> I noticed.
<TheMuso> Eatmydata, eat your heart out.
 * micahg has had fun with /dev/shm and seamonkey/xulrunner
<RAOF> Oh, hey.  That ubuntu-dev-tools branch moving mk-sbuild chroots into chroot.d hasn't landed?
<TheMuso> chroot.d?
<TheMuso> Is that something new that schroot supports? If so, very nice.
<TheMuso> Anyway, oneiric and natty chroots set up for tmpfs overlay support for now.
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> Oooh, and that branch properly supports debian-experimental?  Yes please.
<TheMuso> RAOF: You should have the privs to review/merge that right?
 * TheMuso -> lunch
<RAOF> Let's see.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Thought you had the privs to do that. :)
<TheMuso> Since you are an ubuntu-dev.
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> Turns out I do :)
<pitti> Good morning
 * pitti waves from Augsburg
<TheMuso> Hey pitti./
<cdbs> hi pitti
<RAOF> Hey pitti :)
<pitti> it's nice to unpack boxes for a change :)
<cdbs> TheMuso: Facing problems with integrating SpamAssassin in mailman?
<TheMuso> cdbs: No, I just wish that the canonical list servers were better integrated with spam asassin.
<TheMuso> I moderate some a11y lists, and mail that is spam makes its way into the moderatino queues, even though the reason given is that the mail is possible spam.
<TheMuso> So just venting my frustration I guess.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Well thanks, yourself?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, i'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did you enjoy seeing the world breaking out in tears when the new couple kissed? :-)
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, yeah, good thanks. although, my daughter woke me up at 5.30 this morning ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, i didn't watch it ;)
<TheMuso> I watched that service, and the music was really beautiful.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm quite well, thanks! sore muscles due to the moving, but it all went well
<pitti> I caught 10 minutes of it when we had lunch in a Chinese bistro on Friday
<TheMuso> TO me, the wedding service was the best part of the day, everything else was secondary.
<TheMuso> s/TO/for/
<chrisccoulson> i had quite a productive day on friday
<chrisccoulson> i've got firefox building its own language packs now :)
<TheMuso> Nice.
<toabctl> i had a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop and want to find the packaging stuff for gtk3 but found different branches named gtk3. what's the main branch used for oneiric?
<toabctl> there are: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntugtk3     and lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntu-gtk3    and lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntugtk3
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<pitti> seb128: are you already in Budapest?
<seb128> hey pitti, bien et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, no, going there tomorrow
<pitti> seb128: *me waves to you from Augsburg*
<pitti> seb128: moving went well, just my muscles are aching :)
<pitti> we are sitting amongst a huge pile of boxes still, of course :)
<seb128> good
<seb128> pitti, so you have a week to unpack a bit and UDS then? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: we'll need more time for that, we still need to buy a lot of furniture (we threw most of our old and shabby stuff away)
<pitti> seb128: but the kitchen is complete, and working desk and clothing closet are done
<seb128> right, I didn't suggest you would be done with the moving at the end of the week, just that you will have to time to relax ;-)
<pitti> and this evening we should get DSL
<pitti> so the most basic stuff is working :)
<seb128> great
 * pitti hugs his laptop's builtin 3G antenna; 3G on the mobile phone is rather weak
<rodrigo_> hey pitti, how was the move?
<rodrigo_> seb128, for merging the gnome3 branches, do we merge the whole history to ~ubuntu-desktop branch, or just do an update with all the changes?
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's what I was asking on friday, not sure if you read, what I went for is merging the gnome3-team commits i.e keeping the vcs history but cleaning the changelog and summarizing in one entry
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> well I suggest rebasing on debian at the same time and we do summarize the remaining diff usually when doing that
<rodrigo_> althouugh, well, if we don't keep the changelog history, do we really need the bzr history?
<rodrigo_> yes, I'm first merging the gnome3 branch with debian changes, and then with the ~ubuntu-desktop branch
<seb128> I did it the other way around, I merge the gnome3 vcs in the ubuntu-desktop one
<xclaesse> rodrigo_, will the gnome3 natty ppa be kept up to date? or will you push only in the natty+1 repository?
<seb128> then reviewed the diff
<rodrigo_> xclaesse, I guess I'll do both
<seb128> xclaesse, the ppa will keep being community maintained, contributions to keep it updated are welcome
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: I don't think the PPA bzr history is that interesting in bzr, but if you merge the branches, we'll retain it anyway?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I don't think the PPA bzr history is that interesting in bzr, but if you merge the branches, we'll retain it anyway?
<seb128> rodrigo_, on whether we really need the gnome3 vcs history, not sure but it's somewhat nice to keep record of community contributions there
<rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, was not sure how to do the merge, since I need to review it (because of disabled patches, etc)
<seb128> but I've no strong opinion either way
<seb128> what I did is merge as a first commit
<seb128> clean as a second one
<seb128> rebase on debian as the next one
<rodrigo_> but yes, makes sense to merge the gnome3 ppa and then the debian one
<seb128> well "merge, clean, diff and rebase"
<rodrigo_> yes
<xclaesse> seb128, ok, I hope that will be enough :)
<huats> morning
<jbicha> rodrigo_: what should I do with my merge requests? should I wait for the PPA to be merged into oneiric?
<rodrigo_> jbicha, what pending requests do you have?
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/natty/nautilus/gnome3ppa-dot-desktop/+merge/59612
<rodrigo_> jbicha, if the gnome3 branch hasn't been merged yet to oneiric, go ahead and propose for merging into the ~gnome3-team branch
<rodrigo_> if it has been merged, I guess it's ok to propose a branch for both the ~ubuntu-desktop one and the ~gnome3-team one
<rodrigo_> so that we keep the ppa up-to-datew
<jbicha> and https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/gnome-session/gnome3-support-ubuntu-session/+merge/59604
<jbicha> they haven't been merged yet
<rodrigo_> jbicha, right, I'll merge them to the gnome3-team branches
<jbicha> ok, thanks
<jbicha> just curious if they will get pushed back to the PPA since the ability to launch other sessions
<jbicha> is important for the Natty users also
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> I guess once we have everything merged, we can just dput natty versions to the PPA
<rodrigo_> although we0'll soon start getting 3.1.x updates, so not sure if we want those in the PPA
<jbicha> probably not but I don't think people are using the PPA for stability, lol
<cassidy> kenvandine, seb128: you probably want to backport that fix in natty: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648842   Or I can do a 2.34 release if you prefer
<ubot2> Gnome bug 648842 in Notifications "Notifications are delayed if contacts send messages too fast" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> cassidy, backporting a commit is fine no need to roll a tarball, thanks for pointing it
<cassidy> seb128, there are few other fixes in 2.34 that you may be interested in
<seb128> cassidy, if you feel like you have enough fixes there to roll a tarball feel free to roll one ;-)
<cassidy> oki :) I'll consider doing one but for now you can already backport the fix I think
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> jbicha, your nautilus branch is now merged and package uploaded
<rodrigo_> jbicha, will merge the g-session one later, I need to run some errands now
<rodrigo_> bbib
<rodrigo_> bbiab
<jbicha> rodrigo_: thank you!
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, what about you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, good thanks. enjoying another public holiday in the UK ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm starting to feel like a slacker with all these long weekends ;)
<seb128> oh right, is that the first of may which happened to be on a sunday that you get back on monday?
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> are you in budapest yet?
<seb128> no, going there tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> i hope my laptop charger lasts for UDS. the connector started falling apart yesterday :/
<seb128> urg
<seb128> what do you do to your laptop, you would almost make people believe dell laptop are not robust ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, bug #728803 is another bug with vm and gsd
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 728803 in gnome-settings-daemon "Ubuntu theme switches from partially broken to gnome default on VirtualBox guest" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728803
<seb128> just for info
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you add bug #760523 to your list?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 760523 in gnome-panel "clock-applet: clicking on a calendar date opens the same number one monther earlier in Evolution" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760523
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, bug #752040 as well seems worth investigating
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 752040 in evolution "Evolution setup label not visible" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752040
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, bug #773763 as well, I think you are set for week ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 773763 in evolution "evolution freeze on startup with the plug-in "evolution-rss"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773763
<rodrigo_> seb128, :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, those are things I spotted in the weekend backlog that might be worth sru-ing, just try to look at those when you some time, they are not very high priority but still would be nice to investigate
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, looking at them now
<seb128> rodrigo_, it don't drop other work you do for those but try to get some worked between 2 GNOME3 updates ;-)
<seb128> it->ie
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh and bug #773063 ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 773063 in gnome-control-center "[Natty] gnome-about-me box doesn't remember contents" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773063
<seb128> really done then ;-)
<seb128> time for lunch
<rodrigo_> seb128, heh
<seb128> rodrigo_, welcome to the team :p
<seb128> this one seems around for a while but I didn't really put it on any list before since the capplet goes away next cycle
<seb128> but since some users seem to be bothered by it, maybe let's fix it in natty if it's easy
<seb128> ok, lunch, bbl
<rodrigo_> seb128, enjoy
<rodrigo_> mvo, I see there's an UNRELEASED entry from you in gnome-panel's ubuntu-desktop branch, so have you already submitted that for natty-proposed?
<rodrigo_> mvo, I have a fix to submit, so if you haven't, can I submit both your fix and mine?
<seb128> rodrigo_, was that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.4
<seb128> ?
<rodrigo_> yes, seems so
<seb128> ok, so he probably forgot to push the update when he uploaded
<rodrigo_> yes, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, the fix for #760523 coming then
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, for natty-proposed updates, if we still haven't merged the 3.0 version in ~ubuntu-desktop branch, we use those branches, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't upload, I will include another git commit to fix applets on dual xorg server configs
<mvo> rodrigo_: ups, sorry for the forgotten push
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, do I leave the changelog entry with UNRELEASED?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<mvo> seb128, rodrigo_: will one of you add my changelog entry (from the upload) or should I do that now
<rodrigo_> also, I need to subscribe ubuntu-sru to the bug, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, the other commit is http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=cb969e989477e2671d1e0cdd1519866d61d0c98c
<rodrigo_> mvo, doing it myself now with the push
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you want to backport it as well or do you want me to do it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'll do it
<mvo> thanks rodrigo_
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can subscribe ubuntu-sru yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks, bug #774427 is the one that the commit close
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 774427 in gnome-panel "Cannot add applets to second X server display in 11.04" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774427
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, including that in my commit, so do I upload then?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes please
<rodrigo_> seb128, and push without the UNRELEASED thing, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well as you want, usually what I do is "fix 1 bug, commit, fix second bug, commit, check that things are ready for upload, dch -r, debcommit -r, push"
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's an sru so usually it's -proposed target for upload and .1 version, i.e ubuntu6.5 for that one and natty-proposed
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, once you have uploaded make sure ubuntu-sru is subscribe to both bugs and set the natty bug to "fix commited"
<rodrigo_> vuntz, ping
<rodrigo_> seb128, only one thing not clear, do I build the .changes with the UNRELEASED string in changelog?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, dch -r should change it to natty, you might need to manually change to natty-proposed
<rodrigo_> that was confusing me, I thought you said to upload before dch -r
<seb128> dch -r; debcommit -r and push before uploading basically
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, well I said ""fix 1 bug, commit, fix second bug, commit, check that things are ready for upload, dch -r, debcommit -r, push""
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> the "upload" is after that sequence
<seb128> sorry if that was not clear ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, sorry, my fault :)
<seb128> no worry! ;-)
<rodrigo_> ugh
<rodrigo_>   Uploading gnome-panel_2.32.1-0ubuntu6.5_source.changes: 2k/3k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')"] : Permission denied.
<rodrigo_> Note: This error might indicate a problem with your passive_ftp setting.
<rodrigo_>       Please consult dput.cf(5) for details on this configuration option.
<rodrigo_> ah, but it's in the queue
<mvo> rodrigo_: known issue
<rodrigo_> so I guess this error is harmless
<mvo> rodrigo_: misleading
<mvo> but harmless
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> ok, I think I didn't break anything then :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, heh, congrats on your first desktop upload! :-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti: Anyone having a minute to counter-check a blogpost?
<pitti> Sweetshark: hey Bjoern, how are you? sure
<seb128> hey Sweetshark, can do yes
<Sweetshark> pitti: everything is fine. Just wondering about planning for O. Estimating efforts is always tricky ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: btw, can you please rename your specs to have an "desktop-o-" prefix?
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti: https://pastebin.canonical.com/46989/ <- blogpost text, seems innocent enough to me but is one of my first statements and will end up right at planet documentfoundation ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, seems fine to me as well ;-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: sure, but maybe a wait another day as jasoncwarner might click on the links in the mail right now?
<pitti> Sweetshark: "are consistently used" -> "are consistently being used", I think
<pitti> Sweetshark: and Rene might not be happy to see his name in an Ubuntuish announcement?
<pitti> Sweetshark: otherwise it sounds nice to me
<rodrigo_> ok, lunch time, bbl
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<rickspencer3> hi bcurtiswx
<rickspencer3> quiet today
<bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, could be the sprint this week in Hungary
<rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, yeah
<rickspencer3> also, I think in UK it's a holiday too
<bcurtiswx> ah, didn't know that
<kenvandine> should be quiet :)
<kenvandine> gives me time to prepare specs :)
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<bcurtiswx> good afternoon (right?) kenvandine
<kenvandine> morning :)
<kenvandine> i haven't left yet
<bcurtiswx> ah, OK
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey pitti
 * pitti waves to rickspencer3, too
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i am traveling wed
 * rickspencer3 waves to pitti
<hyperair> pitti: ping. got time for an SRU upload?
<hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/529714
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 529714 in samba "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Critical,Triaged]
<pitti> hyperair: there's currently a samba in -proposed already for bug 771305, which needs testing first
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 771305 in samba "smbd does not start on first boot with 20110426" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771305
<hyperair> hmm, okay.
 * hyperair sighs
<hyperair> why didn't the patches just go together..?
<pitti> hyperair: if it's urgent, you can merge this version, and prepare a source with debuild -S -v2:3.5.8~dfsg-1ubuntu2 to include the previous changelog
<pitti> then we can test both in parallel
<hyperair> ah, okay, thanks.
<hyperair> pitti: aside of that, could you syncpackage libgpod 0.8.0-3 from debian? there's a LP bug linked in there, something about the mono bindings and stuff getting synced wrongly
<pitti> done
<hyperair> pitti: thanks.
<hyperair> looks like the armel buildd is broken.
<hyperair> sh: gcc: not found
<ogra_> hyperair, bug 774175
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 774175 in apt "apt segfaults on armel in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774175
<ogra_> cant install anything in the build root atm...
<hyperair> ogra_: that's weird, my build log shows that apt succeeded.
<hyperair> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70927917/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.libgpod_0.8.0-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ogra_> yeah, the logs are a bit weird
<ogra_> the root cause is apt though
<hyperair> hmm i see.
<hyperair> how very strange.
<Sweetshark> pitti: I would need you to shamelessly lie a bit about me not breaking stuff all the time at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication
<hyperair> lol
 * Laney takes notes
<hyperair> hehe
<hyperair> Laney: for PPU applications, can i transplant the endorsements from my MOTU Application, or do i need new fresh ones?
<Laney> hyperair: I'd like to see ones specific to the application
<Laney> i.e. from your sponsors of libgpod
<hyperair> Laney: ah, like directhex? =D
<Laney> ;)
<hyperair> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/529714/+attachment/2106114/+files/debdiff-debuglevel-2.patch
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 529714 in samba "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Critical,Triaged]
<lamalex> bryceh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762343 :P cool picture
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 762343 in unity "Can't drag window by titlebar if launched from .xprofile" [Undecided,New]
<hyperair> Laney: do i need other endorsements, or only those specific to the package?
<Laney> hyperair: i'd be happy with just specific ones
<hyperair> alright.
<pitti> Sweetshark: with pleasure
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> what tz is jason in?
<hyperair> bryceh++
<pitti> dobey: Sydney usually, but he works odd hours
<lamalex> bryceh, are you using default theme?
<dobey> ok, that's what i thought.
<dobey> and i was wanting to beg for blueprint approvals :)
<dobey> pitti: can i beg you to get packages from natty-proposed into natty-updates?
<pitti> dobey: sure! I accept beer and shoulder massages
<pitti> or making the Telekom engineer appear who is supposed to enable our phone/DSL connector :)
<dobey> pitti: great; ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client are all verification-done :)
<dobey> hehe
<pitti> dobey: you want the ubuntuone-* stuff?
<pitti> dobey: we usually wait for 7 days, but right now a lot more people are testing -proposed, so we can be lenient; copying now
<dobey> pitti: well, these were supposed to be 0-day SRUs, but alas :)
<Sweetshark> dobey: iirc jasson said is is working in "san francisco timezone" hours ...
<Sweetshark> dunno if that is still valid though.
<seb128> vuntz, hey
<seb128> vuntz, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649176 do you have any pointer on how,where it got fixed? would that apply to 2.32?
<ubot2> Gnome bug 649176 in notification area "QT app icons are one pixel in notification area" [Critical,Needinfo]
<vuntz> seb128: 41d0e690edfe952a4ff8b8f6ea01cb9cb09695f7
<seb128> vuntz, thanks!
<vuntz> seb128: that could fix it, but I'm not sure if that's the same issue. At least, same symptoms
<fta> jcastro, hi, are you able to reproduce bug 775657?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 775657 in unity "unity can't raise right-aligned chromium windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775657
<jcastro> fta: I get something even weirder
<jcastro> fta: I get a white box on the top left that say chromium, I have to click the icon again to get it to work
<fta> doh
<fta> never got that one
<jcastro> fta: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/chromium.png
<jcastro> fta: that's when I have chromium windows running
<jcastro> (I have chrome windows on another desktop so don't let icon confuse you, I tested this with a daily)
<fta> jcastro, hm, could it be an extension? do you also see that with --temp-profile?
<jcastro> not sure, I'm busy with OW and UDS right now, I'll ping you -mozillateam when I get a chance to mess with it
<fta> jcastro, sure (but you should be able to test without touching your existing sessions, it just start a new instance with a new volatile profile, and trash it when you close it)
<rodrigo_> oh, no mterry
<rodrigo_> seb128, do you know anything about the diffs in NTP between debian and ubuntu?
<rodrigo_> or anyone else?
<seb128> rodrigo_, gsd you mean?
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> I'm trying to rebase the patch we have in 2.32, but there's code in upstream gsd to deal with debian -> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/datetime
<rodrigo_> so I wonder if we can just use that and remove the patch in our package
<rodrigo_> if not, it'd be better to write an upstream patch
<rodrigo_> but don't worry, I'll ask mterry when he's around
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> rodrigo_, he's away this week
<pitti> (FYI, I'm shifting my work hours to be a bit earlier, as my wife gets up at 6)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think mterry forwarded his patch upstream
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, will look for it in bugzilla
<rodrigo_> ok, so only 3 more patches to rebase left, almost done! :-D
<seb128> ;-)
<Sweetshark> night pitti!
<cdbs> seb128: ping, can I also claim a few GNOME3 work items this cycle?
<dobey> seb128: for the gnome/gtk 3 session, should we discuss webkit2+gtk3 by default?
<micahg> dobey: what webkit2?
<dobey> micahg: ./configure --enable-webkit2 in the webkit source. it does plug-ins in external process and some other improvements
<cdbs> dobey: Does GNOME 3 or 3.2 use it or plan to use it?
<micahg> dobey: webkit2 isn't stable yet AFAIK, I'd want to stick to the stable branch
<dobey> cdbs: it's not a separate library. it's just a "how you build webkit" thing; eventually it will be the default upstream in webkit
<cdbs> hmm
<dobey> cdbs: so if you build with it enabled, epiphany/yelp/etc use it, afaik
<cdbs> dobey: niche
<cdbs> but we don't want unstable components in
<cdbs> probably, just my guess
<fta> pitti, fyi, bug 748881
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 748881 in chromium-browser "Update SVG logo" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748881
<fta> how can i disable dh_scour?
<stgraber> hey guys. I'm currently working on bug 436936. I have the SRUs ready to be uploaded and will likely do so tomorrow. As for Oneiric, I was wondering if you prefer I upload gdm directly with just that change or if you prefer it to be commited somewhere so it's included next time you upload.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<bcurtiswx> nigelb, whats the latest?
<stgraber> seb128: ^ you are the lucky one who's marked as maintainer :)
<jcastro> seb128: pitti: a bunch of multitouch stuff just got proposed to the desktop track btw, they need to be approved, just an FYI if you see jasonwarner around
<jcastro> (or if he has you guys approve them, not sure how your team does it)
<dobey> jcastro: i think he's been doing it anyway. we (u1) still have a few pending approval as well
<seb128> re
<seb128> stgraber, you can upload but update the vcs as well if you do
<seb128> dobey, not sure webkit requires an UDS session, seems like the sort of technical decision that could be taken offline by people who have an opinion on the topic
<seb128> well offline -> online, i.e list discussion
<seb128> cdbs, there is plenty of updates, merges, workitems etc to do so yes feel free to claim any if you work on it (don't take a lock for something that you will not work and block others though)
<dobey> seb128: i wasn't asking if it needed a session. just if it was worth discussing in the gnome/gtk3.x session
<stgraber> seb128: ok, will do.
<seb128> dobey, if you have an opinion feel free to raise it, I'm not sure we have anybody in the team which tracks webkit and will have useful clues during the session though
<rickspencer3_> woah, lots of updates today, and I don't have proposed enabled on this 'puter
<rickspencer3_> hmmm, maybe I didn't update to final Natty
<rickspencer3_> nm
<dobey> seb128: ok. i just randomly thought of it. no big deal really :)
<seb128> rickspencer3_, we have some sru rolling as usual
<rickspencer3_> seb128, ya' of course, but this had some stuff I wasn't expecting, like xorg
<rickspencer3_> 'sall good
<seb128> rickspencer3_, ok, no worry if there is an issue we will just blame it on you as usual ;-)
<rickspencer3_> thanks seb128, I would expect no less :)
<stgraber> seb128: uploaded and pushed. SRU for natty will follow very soon.
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3, seb128
<chrisccoulson> and hi stgraber too ;)
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3, how are you? looking forward to UDS?
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, indeed
<stgraber> hi chrisccoulson
 * cyphermox cries -- cat pulled out the power cable to the cable modem ;)
<achiang> is there any way to export gconf settings?
<cyphermox> achiang, you mean to just print or to apply them to another system after?
<cyphermox> achiang, you have --load and --dump to help with saving/reapplying things -- see gconftool-2 --help-load
<achiang> cyphermox: more like the latter. i'm trying to figure out where the gconf key for the default screensaver hides, and my thought was to take the brute hammer approach: export gconf, set screensaver, export gconf again, and diff
<cyphermox> ah
<achiang> cyphermox: ah, i can just gconftool-2 --dump /apps
<cyphermox> yeah , but isn't all the screensaver stuff in /apps/gnome-screensaver ?
<achiang> cyphermox: while i have you here, how hard do you think it might be for NM to autoconnect when a 3G dongle is plugged in?
<achiang> cyphermox: that is what i thought too, but my pre-seeds have not been working
<cyphermox> achiang, it should already do it if there is a profile to connect to that exists
<achiang> cyphermox: really? even on lucid? :)
<cyphermox> achiang, maybe lucid is special ;)
<cyphermox> but I think it might... I guess you're seeing that doesn't work?
<achiang> cyphermox: yes, the behavior i see is that after hotplug, the profile then appears in nm-applet, but you still have to click on the indicator, and then click on the profile to actually make it connect
<cyphermox> is it set to autoconnect?
<achiang> derp. is there such a setting? :)
 * achiang needs to go double-check apparently
<cyphermox> yeah, in the profile's config there is a checkbox... usually
<achiang> cyphermox: got it. i will go check, thank you for the hints
<cyphermox> achiang, if it's any use I'm working on backporting nm 0.8.4 for lucid in the NM stable PPA, but it's taking me forever, partly because the PPAs are still hugely backlogged and partly because my local buildds had small configuration mistakes
<achiang> cyphermox: ah, cool. i would really like NM 0.9, because i heard a rumor that all connections there are system connections
<cyphermox> achiang, it's the next one I'll do this for
<cyphermox> but first 0.8.4 ;)
<cyphermox> 0.9 shouldn't be a huge issue once I'm done getting the other dependencies, I think
<achiang> cool
<achiang> cyphermox: ah ha, i was setting /apps/gnome-screensaver/themes correctly, but forgot to set 'mode' as well
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i have updated most of the empathy patches for the gnome3 ppa
<kenvandine> not all of which are uploaded though
<kenvandine> the libindicate one is a bit mad at me right now
<kenvandine> should be able to fix it up in the morning
 * kenvandine heads out
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-03
<hyperair> pitti: are SRUs which add indicator support accepted? (seeing as some applications just fail to work without their notification area icons, now that unity has that stupid whitelist)
<tepster> new user here - is it common practice to encrypt the home folder? is that most people do?
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK hit me up tomorrow and we can chat about it
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hyperair: for SRU I'd rather whitelist them; please file a bug against unity, we just need to keep the pressure up :)
<hyperair> pitti: heh, okay. i've just uploaded a quicksynergy port to application indicators. if that's not okay, please reject it
<hyperair> and i'll upload it to oneiric instead
<pitti> it shoudl be fixed/tested in oneiric anyawy
<hyperair> right.
<hyperair> pitti: reject it from -proposed then
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<RAOF> Hm.  I wonder if vmbuilder is waiting for input or whethere it's really bootstrapping a maverick vm.
<RAOF> Maybe these VMs will be built by the time I get back from posting this stuff :).
<bryceh> RAOF, what are you working on?
<RAOF> bryceh: bug #742683 - the dvorak {deadkeys,nodeadkeys} keymaps conveniently swapped names under us.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 742683 in xkeyboard-config "on upgrade, keyboard config changed to use deadkeys" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742683
<bryceh> huh, weird
<RAOF> Yeah.
<bryceh> you know, it's funny, there is a noticeable drop-off in the quality of bug reports that come in post-release compared with pre-release
<RAOF> That's pretty much expected, isn't it?
<bryceh> (come to think of it, there's a similar drop between alpha and beta)
<bryceh> yeah... just surprising how sudden it is
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Anyway, meâpost office.
<pitti> bryceh: do you have a "Hello, IT, have you tried turning it off and on again?" canned response?
<bryceh> pitti, now that's a great idea
<bryceh> pitti, actually, in fact I do have some plans in work to rejigger the X apport scripts a bit to try walking people through a bit of preliminary debugging
<tjaalton> there are some great examples of that, like for audio and general kernel bugs
<tjaalton> though I guess you still need to know what package to file it against
<bryceh> yeah I have something there that kicks in if you run 'ubuntu-bug' without specifying a package and select 'graphics'
<bryceh> but it's kind of shallow, I think it can be expanded on better
<tjaalton> ah, right.. never seen that before :)
<bryceh> yeah that's one reason I want to unify all the apport/failsafe stuff into one package, so I can make stuff like that be more widely used
<Sweetshark> Morning all!
<bryceh> heya Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> bryceh: penalvch posts a lot of "Hello, IT, have you tried turning it off and on again?"-messages for incomplete LibreOffice bugs like here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/758773/comments/5 and I am very thankful for that.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 758773 in libreoffice "soffice.bin crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Medium,Incomplete]
<Sweetshark> pitti: do you know were doko_ is? I was repeatedly trying to get him to prevent my LibreOffice Packaging membership to expire but and still am unsuccessful. I just got the "expires in 24 hours" email.
<pitti> Sweetshark: hm, he's not shown as being on holiday; so no idea, I'm afraid
<bryceh> Sweetshark, awesome :-)
<rodrigo_> morning
<jbicha> rodrigo_: hi
<rodrigo_> hi jbicha, how are you?
<jbicha> the gnome-session build for the gnome3 PPA failed, I think debian has fixed the build-deps
<jbicha> so I was going to try to play with merging their changes but I can't figure out how to do it
<rodrigo_> oh, it failed?
<rodrigo_> it built ok here
<rodrigo_> jbicha, debian has its own svn -> http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-gnome/desktop/experimental/
<rodrigo_> jbicha, so you can check it out, and diff it with the ubuntu branch
<rodrigo_> and then apply the diffs that make sense
<rodrigo_> the parts that make sense, that is
<jbicha> well I've never merged before and was I don't know what diff command to use
<Sweetshark> it seems a lot of people are reading http://planet.documentfoundation.org judging by the reaction on twitter ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: ah, you got some feedback to your post?
<jbicha> rodrigo_: I was trying the lp branch but the svn looks better so let me see
<rodrigo_> jbicha, not sure if it's the correct way of doing it, but I just use diff command (diff -upr ubuntu_branch_dir debian_branch_dir > tmp.diff) and then review the tmp.diff file and apply what I want
<Sweetshark> pitti: nah, just a lot of retweets on how to enable lo-menubar. Bracing for the (bugreport) impact right now ;)
<pitti> heh, good luck!
<jbicha> also something in gdm3 reduces my $PATH to only /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
<Sweetshark> pitti: I have two topics I would like to discuss: 1) SRUs for openclipart, openoffice.org transitionals, lo-menubar, libreoffice 2) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen and how to handle them for uds. Maybe we should mumble sometime today?
<pitti> Sweetshark: we can do that right now if you want (in some 3 minutes when I finished my current merge)
<chrisccoulson> unity is so simple, even my 18 month old daughter can use it!
<chrisccoulson> she's now associated the super key with the dash opening ;)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: f3ar the day when your cat starts to use it ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: will you come back to mumble?
<pitti> did I fall off the planet or Sweetshark ?
<pitti> Sweetshark: back?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I only hear static from you.
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> Sweetshark: still no luck understanding me?
<Sweetshark> nope, no joy
 * pitti blames the UMTS here
<pitti> but it worked just fine a few minutes ago until you disjonied
<Riddell> pitti: who can approve specs?
<chrisccoulson> linking chromium is immensely painful on my laptop :/
<pitti> Sweetshark: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+addspec
<pitti> Riddell: (sorry, had long phone call); by default, the team's tech lead; for Kubuntu specs, you are the de-facto TL, so you can approve them as well
<pitti> Riddell: if it's one of your specs, you can also ask someone else in the Kubuntu community to review it, like Scott or Harald
<Riddell> pitti: actually I ment who can accept them for uds-o
<pitti> Riddell: ah; I think ~uds-organizers
<pitti> Riddell: throw me some URLs, and I'll accept them
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/UDS-O  but I think rickspencer3 is going to do it
<rickspencer3> Riddell, I think it's done
<pitti> Riddell: they are all accepted for uds-o already
<Riddell> thanks pitti, rickspencer3.  now how do I schedule them?
<pitti> rickspencer3: Sweetshark will also add a couple; same question, will they be picked up magically, or do we need to kindly ask someone?
<pitti> jcastro mentioned an auto-scheduler this time
<pitti> lunch, bbl
<soren> When I bring up the Unity dash and type stuff in the search field, what file indexing service does use to present me with file and directory results?
<rodrigo_> ok lunch, bbl
<soren> It it only stuff from Zeitgeist or does it find everything?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, Considering that language-selector is broken in Natty for Turkish users, how about an SRU while waiting for pygobject-2.28.4? https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/natty/pygobject/pygobject-proposed-lp-747796
<pitti> hey GunnarHj
<pitti> GunnarHj: yes, I'll backport the patch as soon as it's approved upstream
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. Will the branch be useful, or should I delete it?
<pitti> GunnarHj: once it gets ack'ed upstream, it will be useful
<GunnarHj> pitti: Cool.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, but 643899 is causing me a real headache now :/
<chrisccoulson> i wish someone had a way to reproduce it :)
<chrisccoulson> **bug
 * pitti needs to disappear for a couple of hours to buy some furniture
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i have this vision of you sitting on the floor of an empty room with just your laptop, hacking away ;)
<ratcheer> On my main Ubuntu Natty installation running Gnome3 and gnome-shell, my Firefox icon keeps turning to a generic icon. Yesterday, I fixed it by changing my icon theme from adwaita to unity-icon-theme, logging off, and logging back on. However, I had to reboot this morning, and the Firefox icon was back to generic. How can I fix the icon, permanently?
<ratcheer> Is anyone here?
<ratcheer> On my main Ubuntu Natty installation running Gnome3 and gnome-shell, my Firefox icon keeps turning to a generic icon. Yesterday, I fixed it by changing my icon theme from adwaita to unity-icon-theme, logging off, and logging back on. However, I had to reboot this morning, and the Firefox icon was back to generic. How can I fix the icon, permanently?
<chrisccoulson> ratcheer, you would be better off asking your question in #ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> this is a developer channel
<ratcheer> chrisccoulson: Sorry. It says on the Launchpad Gnome3 Team page to ask questions, here. I didn't realize I'm not invited.
<chrisccoulson> i didn't say you weren't invited. just that this probably isn't the best channel to get support ;)
<ratcheer> chrisccoulson: Ok, thank you.
<rodrigo_> pitti, seb128: can I add specific work items (specific to a patch in a package) to the gnome3 blueprint?
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey, sure
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> it's because some patches need some work, so I'm disabling them for now
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure that I like to disable them, it reduces the motivation to port it since it doesn't block the upload
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, I'm disabling them because the functionality that was patched is no longer present or has been totally rewritten, so needs really a complete rewrite, maybe even in some other module
<rodrigo_> the others, I'm just rebasing them, that's why I'm taking longer to do uploads from the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, we should have an UDS session about those
<rodrigo_> yes, that's why I want to add them somewhere so that they don't get forgotten
<seb128> i.e review what got dropped and what we should do about it
<rodrigo_> so, can I add them then to the blueprint then?
<tabbernuk> Sorry to bother you, but does anybody know a proper answer to http://askubuntu.com/questions/37843/where-do-i-place-a-file-for-bookmarks-for-all-users ? Ubuntu adds its default bookmarks to Firefox 4, but what mechanism is used ? I checked /etc/firefox/profile/bookmarks.html is definitely not used anymore...
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, which one is that?
<rodrigo_> seb128, for now, 33-datetime-service-ubuntu-ntp.patch and 45_support_new_video_key.patch in g-s-d
<rodrigo_> seb128, but I have a couple more in gnome-power-manager
<seb128> they both got fixed upstream no?
<rodrigo_> I think the ntp thing yes, the other not sure, the code is completely different, and can't really find where that thing is supported
<tabbernuk> If I'm asking in a wrong channel, please redirect :D
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=623223
<ubot2> Gnome bug 623223 in media-keys "Handle video out keys in media-keys" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's the video key bug
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, one less then :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, drop the ntp patch and add a workitem to check ntp is working as it should
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> tabbernuk, try #ubuntu
<seb128> rodrigo_, you need a ":" after the workitems lines
<rodrigo_> ah, sorry
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> rodrigo_, the format is "title: status" where status default to "todo" when not written
<rodrigo_> yes, right
<rodrigo_> ok, hopefully now g-s-d is ok for an upload
 * rodrigo_ builds
<rodrigo_> seb128, can I ask for a review, just in case I missed something or dropped some patch that should stay?
<seb128> rodrigo_, can it go alone or does it need to go at the same time as other things?
<seb128> rodrigo_, having a review for desktop components could be nice
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think g-s-d can go alone
<rodrigo_> seb128, you synced libgnomekbd right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, well I'm not sure if the 2 libgnomekbd versions conflict
<seb128> well it's early in oneiric so we can break things ;-)
<rodrigo_> they conflict indeed
<rodrigo_> you can only have one of them installed
<rodrigo_> but yes, we break things now or never :)
<rodrigo_> ok, it builds ok, so pushing to a branch
<seb128> feel free to push to ubuntu-desktop vcs
<seb128> we can review it there
<rodrigo_> ah, ok then
<rodrigo_> seb128, do I also upload?
<seb128> rodrigo_, if you want feel free but if you want a review before uploading that's fine as well
<rodrigo_> yes, i want a review, but I guess I can do any upload later with fixes
<rodrigo_> but yes, I'll wait for a review better
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, pushed
<rodrigo_> as for the build dependencies, seems all are already in oneiric/natty, so I think it can be uploaded, after the review
<rodrigo_> also, bzr bd starts complaining about 'oneiric' on changelog, so what was the file to edit to add it?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i think libgnomekbd isnt ready at least not for amd64
<rodrigo_> ricotz, oh, why?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, running 3.0 here
<ricotz> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomekbd/2.91.91-2
<ricotz> you are running the ppa version?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, debian only has 2.91.92 then?
 * rodrigo_ checks
<rodrigo_> right, only 2.91.92
<rodrigo_> we have 3.0 in the ppa, so I guess we need to sync to debian and then back from debian?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, there are a lot of packages waiting for dependencies
<rodrigo_> ricotz, in oneiric you mean?
<ricotz> yes, oneiric :)
<ricotz> which might cause trouble with some build depes
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, what did you sync? the ubuntu-desktop branch still has 2.32
<seb128> rodrigo_, sync what?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, syncing is a direct archive copy so it leave the vcs behind
<seb128> I didn't update the vcs for the stack of syncs I do
<seb128> usually we import the current version in the vcs when we need to divert again
<seb128> no point to keep a vcs in sync for autosyncs
<seb128> rodrigo_, do we need a newer version than 2.91.92? debian seems to be fine with that one
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you plan to rebase on Debian?
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, we have 3.0 in the ppa, although no changes really different than debian, except for the version updates
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-settings-daemon.html
<dpm> heya seb128. We've got a few Nokia Qt people coming to UDS and I've been in touch with them. I e-mailed jasoncwarner to see if you guys wanted to have any sessions scheduled with them, but he hasn't come back to me yet. In the meantime, we scheduled a Qt catch-all discussion session -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-qt-panel/ - do you guys need another session with them, or them to be subscribed to any of your existing sessi
<dpm> ons?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, g-s-d upstream just asks for libgnomekbd >= 2.91.1
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnome-settings-daemon/current/changelog
<rodrigo_> so should be fine
<seb128> dpm, not sure, ask dx and Riddell I guess
<seb128> ubuntu-desktop doesn't really use qt out of unity-2d for next cycle
<seb128> rodrigo_, well rebasing on debian is basically taking their version, summarizing what we do different and listing those in one changelog update
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah
<seb128> see what I did for eog
<rodrigo_> seb128, I thought it was merging the changes
<seb128> usually I diff the debian and ubuntu debian dirs
<seb128> take the debian one
<seb128> reapply changes we need and describe those as I go
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> it give you basically debian with only real diff over debian and a summary
<rodrigo_> I thought we wanted to keep our history
<seb128> we can often take their packaging cleanups etc
<seb128> well people do merge the changelog and keep the old ubuntu uploads mixed in there
<seb128> but we start each cycle by merging on debian
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I get it
<seb128> that's what https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html is about
<rodrigo_> I'll do it that way
<seb128> thanks
<Riddell> dpm: who's coming?
<Riddell> from Qt?
<seb128> it's a bit extra work but if we do rebase on them once a cycle we divert
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, makes sense
<dpm> Riddell, the folks listed at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-qt-panel/
<jcastro> seb128: if you see jasonwarner can you remind him to check the incoming blueprints in launchpad? He's got a bunch we need to get on the schedule since he started travelling
<seb128> jcastro, will do, I've not seen him yet
<kenvandine> jcastro, just mention him on twitter, he retweeted robbiew a few minutes ago :)
<vish> pitti, seb128: hi, could you change the description in this BP: s/Humanity/Light : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3
<vish> Light theme is the murrine based GTK theme
<latenite> Hi, how do I add a "auto included footer" to emails in evolution?
<Laney> grabbing the gimp merge
<jorek> Hi, I'd like to know if it is possible to switch the hotkey for the terminal with the one for trash yet the [CTRL]+[ALT] is a pain for me.
<Laney> how far does this delta reducing initiative go?
<Laney> i'd like to drop one or two largeish changes in this merge:     - List dependencies one line per dependency &     - Add ${misc:Depends} to all packages
<cyphermox> Laney, sounds reasonable to me, too
<Laney> I just discovered that emerge-files is great for doing merges
<fta> jcastro, do you know if someone is working on adding a progress bar for the transmission icon in the unity launcher?
<jcastro> fta: I think kklimonda?
<Xylch> How do I change the Unity appmenu close/min/max to my themes default?
<jbicha> Xylch: I don't know much about that, but that looks like a bug to me that Unity only draws Ambiance or ugly
<jbicha> for the window buttons
<jbicha> at least Radiance should be supported
<Xylch> yea, I am using shiki-colors theme, and I have an ugly placeholder close/max/min icon when maximized
<zniavre> Xylch,  you should find this how-to interesting to use your own button with unity
<zniavre> the idea is to replace ambiance/radiance metacity files form their folder
<zniavre> http://nanabuluku.deviantart.com/art/Orta-pbr-unity-206313533
<zniavre> ooops sorry forget the link
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-04
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> jbicha: I'm using Radiance, and the buttons look fine?
<cdbs> seb
<cdbs> oops, pressed enter instead of tab
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<jbicha> pitti: you're right, it's just the other themes that don't fit in
<pitti> chrisccoulson_: can I ask you to do https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/po2xpi/fix-update-data/+merge/59875 ?
<cdbs> It appears that the latest update-manager in Oneiric doesn't launch
<jbicha> yes,  ImportError: No module named UnitySupport
<cdbs> jbicha: So I'm not the only one
<cdbs> hi seb128 , can you look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps-unity-integration ?
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<kenvandine> good morning folks
<seb128> hey kenvandine pitti
<seb128> hey cdbs
<seb128> kenvandine, what are you doing up still? ;-)
 * kenvandine is just downloading offline maps to my phone before getting a few hours of sleep before flying
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> seb128, and i was also working on building libido for gtk3
<pitti> seb128: how's Budapest?
<seb128> pitti, nice
<seb128> kenvandine, did you get it working?
<kenvandine> not yet
<kenvandine> it is less trivial than the others
<kenvandine> quite a bit of stuff to change
<kenvandine> enough for tonight though, i gotta get some sleep
<seb128> cdbs, what about it?
<seb128> kenvandine, 'night
<kenvandine> good night, see you soon'ish :)
<Sweetshark> pitti: we have a good reason for a libreoffice SRU: bug 775608.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 775608 in libreoffice "[Upstream] Libreoffice Calc's PRODUCT function doesn't calculate correctly with certain array formulas" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775608
<Sweetshark> it would make us the only distri to have a current version of LibreOffice that actually calculates right, which I would consider a feature.
<pitti> Sweetshark: eww, yes; I added a natty task
<pitti> bbiab, bank/post office
<pitti> Sweetshark: eww, yes; I added a natty task
<pitti> bbiab, bank/post office
<cdbs> seb128: Just wanted your opinion on it
<seb128> cdbs, seems like nice integration work for contributors
<cdbs> seb128: And please do subscribe, I'll be attending remotely, and I can't gather folks for the session through remote robotic hands @ Budapest :)
<seb128> k, I will mention it to didrocks as well
<cdbs> seb128: yup, could be a give-away for contributors as well, we just need to decide which apps needs what
<cdbs> thanks seb128
<cdbs> DBO: seb128: Enjoying Budapest?
<cdbs> Gosh, my age is such a damn barrier to enjoyment
<jbicha> how do I properly do the maintainer script when the packaging has been reshuffled with an /etc file
<seb128> jbicha, define reshuffled
<seb128> jbicha, but basically http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
<seb128> it has code you can use to clean or move those on upgrade
<jbicha> the etc is now "owned" by -common instead of -bin or the other way around
<jbicha> thanks, I'll see if I can figure that out, just rm'ing it in the prerm upgrade works but I didn't think it was very nice
<seb128> did you try to just use a replaces as for any file move to a new binary?
<jbicha> can you explain that more?, I'm still learning packaging
<jbicha> the wiki page points me to man dpkg-maintscript-helper which tells me how to move or remove a conf file
<seb128> jbicha, not sure what issue you are trying to solve, but usually when a file moves between binaries we use a Replaces to avoid conflicts on upgrade
<seb128> like
<jbicha> ok, maybe I understand that
<seb128> it's the way to tell dpkg to not report a conflict between the binaries
<seb128> it seems like that the conffile being in a new binary should be handled without any need to manual work out of using the Replaces: -bin (<< new-version)
<jbicha> if I just tell it that it replaces the older version, it may be smart enough to figure out how to upgrade it correctly
<jbicha> ok, I'll try that, thank you
<seb128> to avoid conflicts if the new -common is unpacked before the new -bin which would make dpkg go "you have 2 binaries shipping the same file it's a bug"
<jbicha> I'm trying to merge in Debian's version of gnome-session 3 and this should be my last step
<seb128> what file are you dealing with?
<seb128> jbicha, ^
<jbicha> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/55gnome-session_gnomerc
<jbicha> there was a replaces in Debian's control, just have to tweak it slightly for Ubuntu
<seb128> that file doesn't come from Ubuntu, it must have moved in Debian as well so they probably deal with it
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<jbicha> howdy
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, jbicha
<chrisccoulson_> pitti - yeah, sure. i can do that. ca-valencia is actually automatically blacklisted in my new firefox packaging, as i parse the list of languages to ship in the firefox source
<chrisccoulson_> and that one is not on the list (or it's !linux)
<pitti> chrisccoulson_: for oneiric you mean?
<pitti> (we need this for natty)
<chrisccoulson_> pitti - yeah, for oneiric
<chrisccoulson_> i was just saying that this won't be a problem in oneiric ;)
<pitti> nice
<chrisccoulson_> pitti - http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/3ff945bdace7/browser/locales/shipped-locales
<chrisccoulson_> i parse that to build the list of xpi's to create
<pitti> chrisccoulson_: straight from gitweb? that's done at source build time then?
<chrisccoulson_> pitti - no, that's shipped in the source tarball
<chrisccoulson_> (although, i don't actually parse it at package build time. i build a list from it at source build time so i can create the entries in debian/control)
<chrisccoulson_> hmmm, unity really doesn't like me docking my laptop
<micahg> chrisccoulson_: unity doesn't like my uptime :)
<RAOF> chrisccoulson_: Somewhat surprisingly, Unity quite likes me docking my laptop.
<RAOF> Even *more* surprisingly, my laptop detects when I turn of my external DP monitor *and automatically disables it*
<RAOF> It's crazy when things work as you'd hope them to :)
<pitti> black magic!
<chrisccoulson_> i'm going to have to restart. restarting compiz hasn't fixed my problem, and now my display is even more messed up
<RAOF> I was astounded the first time it happened :)
<pitti> I still don't quite like how it messes up the resolution on both displays to 1024x768 when I open the lid
<pitti> but it's come a looooong way
<RAOF> Harumph.  It *should* pick up your last used config, which would probably be spanned.
<chrisccoulson> that's better. 2 functioning screens again
<jbicha> rodrigo_: I synced gnome-session with Debian for the gnome3 PPA, here's the updated merge proposal:
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/gnome-session/gnome3-support-ubuntu-session/+merge/59886
<Sweetshark> pitti: How do I do this "nominate for series" thingie for the SRU?
<pitti> Sweetshark: I already added a natty task
<pitti> Sweetshark: but below the task list there is a "Target to series..." link
<Sweetshark> pitti: cant find it.
 * Sweetshark is blind
<pitti> Sweetshark: you see the two buttons with a green plus?
 * vish suspects Sweetshark is not in BugControl..
<pitti> + Also affects project +  Also affects distribution O Target to series
<micahg> pitti: it's only available for bug control members
<pitti> aah
<pitti> Sweetshark: without that you won't be able to do much triaging indeed; can you please ping bdmurray (not sure who else) to add you?
 * Sweetshark always wondered how one could get bugs in certain states that seemed unavailable to me ...
<micahg> Sweetshark: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks for accepting my firefox SRU :)
<chrisccoulson> micahg, feel like doing some SRU verification> ;)
<pitti> no worries, thanks for fixing stuff!
<micahg> chrisccoulson: maybe a bit later, need to get thunderbird out before I collapse
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it's a shame i had to regress bug 548866, but i think the severity of bug 643899 justifies that for now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 548866 in firefox "forgets middlemouse.contentLoadURL on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548866
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 643899 in firefox "Firefox sending header "Accept-Language: chrome://global/locale/intl.properties"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643899
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I think it might be better to file a new bug to track that regression
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you have an automated script? ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for what?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you can probably unassign sru-verification from bug 548866, as i just need to reopen that (but i mentioned that in the changelog)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 548866 in firefox "forgets middlemouse.contentLoadURL on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548866
<chrisccoulson> i guess your script caught that ;)
<chrisccoulson> **unsubscribe
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> don't close bugs in the changelog which you want to reopen :)
<pitti> set back to triaged, and followed up with a comment
<micahg> that's going to get confusing, can we please open a new bug since this is only a natty regression at this point?
<micahg> that bug was a regression on a previous release before that
<chrisccoulson> wtf - bug 776970 ? what on earth does the title have to do with the description?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 776970 in firefox "window.opener.content.document.nodePrincipal;" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776970
<chrisccoulson> jeez, i can't escape from people using the words "Fitt's Law". now, people aren't just using it in mailing lists, but they're using it in bug reports too!
<chrisccoulson> (bug 776930)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 776930 in unity "Attempted mouse-overs for the Firefox back button and Find box close button will bring up the Launcher (Fitts's Law)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776930
<chrisccoulson> i think i'm going to go and hide in a cave
<micahg> chrisccoulson: there's a 2 yr old bug with it in the title I think as well :)
<pitti> but indeed this is annoying
<pitti> I can't properly select stuff from firefox due to that, until I disabled launcher-on-edge in the prefs again
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. you must have that with other applications as well though?
<chrisccoulson> i can't see what i could possibly do in firefox about this :/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: in principle yes, but it's one of the few apps I run fullscreen (the other is weechat, which I don't c&p from)
<pitti> it's a unity design failure though, not a firefox bug
<pitti> (which was discussed over and over, and this got pointed out as regression potential, but it was done anyway)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it is pretty annoying
<pitti> RAOF: xserver-xorg-video-nv was removed in Debian, ok to follow suit?
<pitti> debian bug 612189
<ubot2> Debian bug 612189 in ftp.debian.org "RM: xserver-xorg-video-nv -- ROM; unmaintained" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/612189
<RAOF> pitti: We didn't do that already? :)
<pitti> *flush*
<RAOF> pitti: Perfectly fine to.  It's patched so that it can't actally load in all but unusual circumstances, anyway :)
<pitti> RAOF: apparently nobody did a process-removals run in a long time :)
<pitti> (s/did/has done/, right?)
<RAOF> Right.
<Sweetshark> pitti: can you nominate bug 775608 and bug 746375 for series natty? And set set importance to critical for 775608? I will then subscribe ubuntu-sru. Im unsure about who is to assign the "verification-needed" tag.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 775608 in libreoffice "[Upstream] Libreoffice Calc's PRODUCT function doesn't calculate correctly with certain array formulas" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775608
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 746375 in libreoffice "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in uno_type_sequence_construct()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746375
<pitti> Sweetshark: v-needed will be done by sru team when accepting the fix
<pitti> Sweetshark: done
<Sweetshark> pitti: Ok, this is finished for my part. You would need to take over for sponsoring etc.
<pitti> Sweetshark: can you please upload the source package (to "natty-proposed") to chinstrap again?
<pitti> (or PPA)
<pitti> but PPA would waste buildd power
<Sweetshark> pitti: I am already wasting: https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1711276/+listing-archive-extra
<pitti> Sweetshark: do you have a version with a better changelog for the second one?
<chrisccoulson> heh, it seems the PPA builders are a bit behind
<pitti> Sweetshark: i. e. which describes the actual problem instead of "tentative patch"?
<seb128> hum
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> pitti, wasn't remmina blocked by the security team?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> seb128: yes, but for IMHO weird reasons; tsclient isn't any better
<seb128> pitti, right, well I was just wondering if you talked to kees about it
<pitti> not yet
<pitti> easier at UDS when Kees, Robert, and we are all in the same TZ
<seb128> ok, I just got confused by the work iteam
<seb128> item
<seb128> let's discuss it next week ;-)
<pitti> iTeam sounds like a shiny new apple product, let's register it!
<seb128> ;-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: uploaded to chinstrap
<pitti> Sweetshark: hm, needs to go to natty-proposed, not natty (see above)
<pitti> Sweetshark: urgency is irrelevant for Ubuntu, FYI (doesn't hurt to set it to high, but won't do anything)
<Sweetshark> pitti: fixed
<pitti> Sweetshark: uploaded, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, doing a gdm merge on debian would be a challenge but if someone feels like doing it ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I added a question mark to it; but at some point we want to upgrade to gdm3 anyway, right?
<pitti> seb128: and at that point we should at least rename our package to gdm3; we don't actually need to merge the Debian changes if that's impractical
<pitti> but I guess the bigger challenge is to port gdmsetup etc. to gdm3 (in case it's actually necessary)
<seb128> right
<seb128> we will upgrade to gdm3 this cycle I guess
<pitti> updated pad
<pitti> seb128: also depends if we'll switch to lightdm by default; if we do, we might be able to drop a lot of patches
<seb128> well, maybe
<chrisccoulson> aren't most of the features of gdmsetup in control-center now?
<chrisccoulson> i think they were last time i tried a fedora live CD
<seb128> we need to rebase our gdm on accountsservice I guess
<seb128> pitti, the issue so far is that nobody though merging gdm on debian was worth the effort
<Sweetshark> pitti: who should be the approver blueprints desktop-o-libreoffice-communities and desktop-o-libreoffice-packaging? You? Or jasoncwarner? They would need to be approved for UDS, right?
<jbicha> gdm3 is in the PPA
<seb128> it's like going to take over a day of work and not going to bring any value especially if we want to switch away from using it
<seb128> jbicha, there is a broken version in the ppa yes
<Sweetshark> pitti: doh, you are already the approver
<seb128> like distro patches, gdmsetup, integration etc got commented
<jbicha> dunno, works for me
<pitti> seb128: approver means approving the content of the spec for implementation, not ack'ing for UDS
<seb128> pitti, wrong s<tab>? ;-)
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> Sweetshark: approver means approving the content of the spec for implementation, not ack'ing for UDS
<Sweetshark> pitti: ah, now I can hear you ;)
<Sweetshark> pitti: ok, I already mailed jasoncwarner1 about it, so when we should do something about the blueprints on UDS I'd assume its taken care of.
<pitti> Sweetshark: accepted for uds-o and oneiric
<Sweetshark> pitti: ah, great!
 * Sweetshark is beginning to get conditioned to nag pitti with random tasks.
 * pitti is beginning to think he accumulated way too many team memberships over the yeasrs
<jbicha> oh, now that I think about it, gdm does something weird to my $PATH
<seb128> jbicha, it probably does to your locales as well
<rodrigo_> ugh, was disconnected
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, so what you told me yesterday about rebasing from debian, so what's the proper way to do it? I have branched trunk and applied the diff from the debian branch, and then I go over all the changes in our branch, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure what is the proper way to merge on debian, pitti and other probably are closer than me from a "clean" way
<seb128> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html has diffs
<seb128> rodrigo_, there is a bzr merge-package which works as well for things with sources in debian
<rodrigo_> ah, cool
<seb128> the way I do it is probably old school
<seb128> I diff the debian dirs between current ubuntu and debian
<seb128> then reapply changesets and list those in the changelog manually
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> on whatever way is easier
<seb128> like I might copy the debian control.in file over our version and readd the vcs and ubuntu maintainer if that's easier this way
<seb128> or just keep the vcs version and document the diff if there is nothing from debian to take
<seb128> but I guess you got what I mean there
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, some things are easier to do manually
<seb128> rodrigo_, one way to do it easily is take the vcs, copy the debian dir over and clean the bzr diff
<seb128> debian dir = the one coming from the debian source
<rodrigo_> seb128, but the changelog, we keep the whole debian one, + one entry with the ubuntu specific changes, right?
<seb128> so you have the diff in bzr
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> and the goal is to have only useful things to Ubuntu remaining
<seb128> it also allow you to bzr revert one file if there was no useful addition in debian
<seb128> some people do merge the changelogs but I usually just summarize the diff in the current upload
<seb128> see eog or the gedit upload I just did
<rodrigo_> ok, I think that's the easiest
<seb128> ok
<seb128> time for lunch there, bbl
<chrisccoulson> has anyone upgraded to oneiric yet?
<pitti> I traditionally upgrade on UDS Friday afternoon
<seb128> same here, I need a working laptop for UDS
<seb128> so I'm just doing the merges on natty until then ;-)
<seb128> ok, lunch, bbl
<chrisccoulson> heh, i think i'll probably wait too ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, usually upgrading before going to a conference is a way of looking for problems :-)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, i like problems ;)
<chrisccoulson> keeps things exciting!
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, i'm really starting to hate bzr
<chrisccoulson> that's twice in a few weeks that my branch has screwed up and i can't push it to launchpad
<jbicha> I'm crazy, I'm using Oneiric now
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, :)
<rodrigo_> so, what's the replacement for the .gconf-defaults files for gsettings?
<orange1> hi all  - trying to get workrave going in unity - it used to be an applet - pointers would be appreciated....
<Laney> rodrigo_: debian/package.gsettings-override
<Laney> see dh_installgsettings(1)
<rodrigo_> Laney, ok cool
<Laney> needs debhelper >= 8.1.3 too
<rodrigo_> hmm, natty only has 8.1.2ubuntu4
<Laney> yeah, O only
<Laney> or -backports
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> I'll add a work item for now
<Laney> you can probably install Oneiric's debhelper in Natty tbh
<rodrigo_> Laney, yes, sure, just want to finish this merge, it's been taking me a few days now
<Laney> well, oneiric chroots are easy to create :-)
<rodrigo_> Laney, yes, I will do it as soon as I've got some time
<rodrigo_> what's the file to change so that 'oneiric' is understood by dpkg-buildpackage & co?
<rodrigo_> I always forget
<seb128> re
<seb128> rodrigo_, we have overrides for gsettings
<rodrigo_> seb128, right
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, just pushed g-s-d rebase to ubuntu-desktop branch, if you want to do a quick review before I upload
<seb128> rodrigo_, can do in a bit
<rodrigo_> seb128, no hurry, will go out for lunch in a bit, so no hurry :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will have it reviewed for when you come back from lunch
<desrt> seb128: ahah.  i found you.
<desrt> can you package something for me?
<seb128> you are next in the queue
<desrt> rodrigo_: you will come next week?
<rodrigo_> desrt, to budapest? yes
<rodrigo_> I arrive on Sunday
<rodrigo_> desrt, you're there already?
<desrt> yes
<rodrigo_> ok, cool
<rodrigo_> ok, lunch now, bbl
<desrt> DBO: hey steve
 * pitti hugs desrt
<desrt> pitti: hi :)
<desrt> pitti: i want to talk to you next week about umask
<pitti> desrt: DBO is Jason, not a Steve :)
<desrt> because i am very confused
<desrt> pitti: no.  he's steve. :)
<pitti> now I am very confused as well
<chrisccoulson> me too
<desrt> jason is across the table from me
<desrt> if you want confusion, perhaps we should start calling jason rick instead of steve jason
<desrt> pitti: do you have any awareness of what happened, exactly?
<desrt> (with umask)
<pitti> desrt: about umask?
<desrt> ya.
<desrt> i thought it was done in brussels
<desrt> then it was reversed or something
<pitti> hmm, apparently nobody actually implemented it
<desrt> lol.
<desrt> it was adding one line to a file and deleting a line from another :)
<pitti> hmm, Assignee: desrt; that was probably inadequate then?
<desrt> well
<desrt> considering that i don't have the ability to upload...
<pitti> right, it just apparently fell off everyone else's radar
 * pitti accepts for oneiric and assigns to himself
<desrt> great.  thanks. :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, let me know when you are back
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm back
<rodrigo_> I'll try again: what's the file to edit to add oneiric to the list of known ubuntu versions, so that bzr-builddeb works? :)
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, isn't that usually backported or something?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, I remember having edited one file for natty, months ago, to make it work
<cyphermox> yeah
<rodrigo_> but I don't remember which file
<rodrigo_> and i can't really find it
<cyphermox> which error do you get?
 * cyphermox has already switched to oneiric
<rodrigo_> 'oneiric not known' or something like that
<cyphermox> but does it say something before that, like dpkg-source or whatever?
<rodrigo_> let me try again
<rodrigo_> hmm, seems to start building the package ok now
<cyphermox> ok
 * rodrigo_ waits for it to finish
<cyphermox> might be dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py though
<pitti> good bye everyone, see you tomorrow!
<cyphermox> ciao pitti
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, yes, that one, I guess it was updated in my last system update
<rodrigo_> it now contains oneiric indeed
<cyphermox> yeah it's possible
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, already switched to oneiric? and dist-upgraded? any problem so far?
<cyphermox> no, but it's gotta come eventually ;)
<rodrigo_> yeah :)
<cyphermox> actually, I had a dist-upgrade to do this morning, I'm just about to reboot
<rodrigo_> ok, if you're not back, we'll know why :)
<cyphermox> indded
 * cyphermox reboots
<seb128> rodrigo_, sorry I as pulled into a session
<seb128> rodrigo_, so small comments on g-s-d
<seb128> the first one is the current commit text, you probably want to limit to the current changelog and not let it list all the debian changelog entries you add
<vuntz> robert_ancell: ping
<robert_ancell> vuntz, hello
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<vuntz> robert_ancell: hi my friend
<vuntz> robert_ancell: are you still using http://people.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/ ?
<seb128> robert_ancell, what are you still doing up so late?
<seb128> vuntz, we do
<vuntz> robert_ancell: if yes, you might want to be aware of a few changes :-)
<vuntz> ah
<robert_ancell> vuntz, cheers for the gcalctool uploading
<vuntz> seb128: well, I prefer to talk to robert_ancell and not you :-P
<robert_ancell> sure are
<robert_ancell> seb128, just got to budapest
 * vuntz hugs seb128 
<seb128> vuntz, ok great, I didn't want to talk to you either
<vuntz> heh
<seb128> robert_ancell, joining the somehands?
<vuntz> oh, it's uds soon
<robert_ancell> seb128, yup
<vuntz> hope you'll have fun there
<vuntz> a few things
<seb128> robert_ancell, we are at the dx, design sprint today if you want to come and say hello
<seb128> it's at the first floor on the left of the building
<vuntz> - there's now versions-stable-extras and versions-unstable-extras
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok, will head up in a while
<vuntz> (those can be used to track everything on ftp.gnome.org that is not part of the release sets -- ie, not part of gnome-stable/gnome-unstable)
<vuntz> - there can be one than more line for a module
<seb128> robert_ancell, second comment is that usually we try to keep the changelog description for patches rather than just list everything with "ubuntu patches"
<vuntz> for instance: glib:1.2.10 and glib:2.28.6
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, what do you mean? I copied debian's changelog and just added one entry
<vuntz> this happens for branches
<seb128> rodrigo_, bzr log and see the commit description from the most recent commit?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, right
<vuntz> so you need to make sure you take the right glib (not the first one, but the one with the higher version, for instance)
<seb128> rodrigo_, do we still need 02_missing_libs.patch?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, seems so, although haven't really tried removing it
<robert_ancell> vuntz, I think I already do that as I had to differentiate between the mobile and normal packages
<seb128> rodrigo_, is that distro specific?
<vuntz> robert_ancell: in case you have anything weird, just tell me
<robert_ancell> vuntz, will do, cheers
<vuntz> robert_ancell: there's one issue I'm aware of: dia is listed with version "1". But that's a bug on ftp.gnome.org actually
<rodrigo_> seb128, seems so, doesn't seems to fail on any other distro
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, so how do I fix the log entry? bzr revert and commit again?
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't bother for this one
<rodrigo_> seb128, we might not need it anymore, just left it there just in case
<seb128> rodrigo_, so diff with debian has
<seb128> -               libgnome-desktop-3-dev (>= 2.91.5),
<seb128> +               libgnome-desktop-3-dev (>= 2.91.93),
<seb128> is that needed?
<seb128> if it is we should forward that to debian so they fix it
<seb128> otherwise we should drop it
<seb128> we should drop the debian vcs control lines as well so debcheckout doesn't get confused
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think it's indeed needed because of some API changes there were, although upstream checks for 2.91.5 indeed
<rodrigo_> let me check gnome-desktop source
<seb128> rodrigo_, we add a .gconf-defaults which is not listed in the changelog summary, still needed?
<rodrigo_> seb128, needs to be converted to gsettings, but since it needs oneiric debhelper version, I just added a work item to the blueprint
<seb128> the postinst diff is not needed since we don't support update from before the lts and it has a version newer than the one concerned
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, ideally we should still list it in the changelog so full merge we have a summary in the changelog
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, otherwise great work, those are really minor nitpick
<rodrigo_> seb128, you mean removing the .postinst file?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no the diff
<seb128> -    if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt-nl "2.26.1"; then
<seb128> -        rm -f /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-settings-daemon.desktop
<seb128> -    fi
<rodrigo_> ah, I removed that?
<seb128> that's a diff we had that we can drop
<seb128> i.e get back closer from debian
<seb128> just copy their postinst
<rodrigo_> it's dropped in trunk now
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> ok, so the libgnome-desktop-3-dev version check, the postinst, anything else?
<rodrigo_> before I push?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ideally you would keep the changelog description of each patch and what they do
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, cf the 2.30.1-1ubuntu1 changelog entry from the natty source
<seb128> rodrigo_, otherwise it's fine, nice work ;-)
<jhunt_> hi all - you might be interested in bug 777011. If we can fix this, it may well boost gnome/Unity performance.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 777011 in gdk-pixbuf "gdk-pixbuf uses temporary files when loading xpm images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777011
<seb128> pitti, can we drop our libnotify double source to get back on debian on the naming of the binaries?
<Laney> rodrigo_: if you are packaging for oneiric, what's wrong with build-depending on the appropriate debhelper version and using installgsettings?
<seb128> jhunt_, do we use xpm images?
<Laney> also it looks like the version should be -1ubuntu1 not -2ubuntu1 :-)
<jhunt_> seb128: seemingly for everything - every mouse click and every scroll wheel move creates a ton of tmp files.
<rodrigo_> Laney, nothing wrong
<seb128> weird, it's worth bringing up to dx I guess
<rodrigo_> Laney, I'm just building for oeniric in natty, that's the "problem"
<Laney> right, I use sbuild for that
<rodrigo_> Laney, yes, will set it up as soon as I've got time, as I told you before
<Laney> ok ok, just trying to help
<rodrigo_> Laney, yes, I know, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> Laney, just want to finish this merge and add work items for the remaining issues, so that I can move to merge other stuff from the gnome3 ppa
<rodrigo_> we have lots of patches to rebase, so those take precedence
<dpm> seb128, pitti, I've got a blueprint to discuss enabling upstream translation imports from bzr branches into Ubuntu source packages, as the LP feature is now complete, mind if I add you as "participation essential"?
<seb128> rodrigo_, 06_use_application_indicator.patch looks wrong
<rodrigo_> seb128, why?
<seb128> rodrigo_, the configure.ac checks for appindicator-0.1
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm
<seb128> shouldn't that be appindicator3-0.1
<seb128> i.e the gtk3 version?
<rodrigo_> yes, good catch :)
<seb128> did that got any testing in the ppa? just curious I would have though that mixing gtk version would make it exit due to symbols conflict
<rodrigo_> seb128, it was disabled in the ppa
<seb128> oh ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, pushed all fixes, if you want to do a quick review, I'll upload as soon as it looks ok
<rodrigo_> the patches would need lots of testing, I'm just rebasing blindly for now
<rodrigo_> although I guess I can just install the package I build :)
<seb128> ok, seems like for system component we should have a least one run with it before uploading
<seb128> would be nice
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, building and installing now
<seb128> rodrigo_, version should be 1ubuntu1 not 2ubuntu1
<seb128> otherwise looks fine to upload after a round of testing and running it
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks for the review
<seb128> rodrigo_, yw
<dobey> hrmm, it is so quiet
<kklimonda> jcastro: fta yeah, I've been looking into integrating Transmission into Unity launcher, but I'm not sure what info I should provide - using progress bar doesn't really fit Transmission imo, I'll add an emblem for "turtle mode" for sure
<jcastro> what's turtle mode?
<jcastro> sounds neat
<kklimonda> bah, another review of Unity where it's described as a good idea that "has been killed by rushing it too fast".
<kklimonda> jcastro: it's a temprary speel limit mode.
<jcastro> oh, cool, yeah
<bryceh> should call it tortoise mode
<dobey> kklimonda: launchers don't have emblems
<dobey> kklimonda: that was removed
<dobey> kklimonda: i think you could probably set the number of current transfers on the launcher though, and unity will ad the (NN) emblemy thing on it
<fta> kklimonda, hey, wrt to transmission, i expect something like chromium and ff download progress bars, and maybe a counter with the remaining active downloads
<fta> kklimonda, imho, no need to report anything about uploads/seeds.
<fta> jcastro, ^^
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-05
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: as the original reporter, would you mind testing language-selector in -proposed for bug 771176? would be much appreciated
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 771176 in language-selector "langauge-selector non-functional in natty due to missing gnome-user-guide-xx packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771176
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti. sure, i can do that in a bit
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - language-selector verified now. i could have commented earlier really, i've been using language-selector to test some other stuff already ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: awesome, thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - if we ship firefox translations in separate packages in the future, do we need to update language-selector to pull in the firefox translations when firefox is installed?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is there any way to trigger language-selector to install the correct language packs if someone installs firefox after install? (eg, someone using KDE perhaps)
<chrisccoulson> or does that only happen manually?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right now it happens manually; it's a rather long-standing TODO item to integrate this into software-center
<pitti> e. g. if you install a KDE package under Ubuntu, it should pull in l-p-kde-*
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it might be worth discussing that at UDS then. perhaps we should have a separate session for translations after all
<pitti> that's not a ffox specific problem, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we could add it to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-clean-up-language-support
<chrisccoulson> pitti - sure, that sounds good
<chrisccoulson> and i'm coming to that one anyway ;)
<chrisccoulson> perhaps we should invite mvo to that one too then
<pitti> chrisccoulson: updated description, please feel free to sub
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sub'ed mvo
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<seb128> hey pitti rodrigo_
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<pitti> seb128: how's the sprint?
<rodrigo_> sorry, hi seb128
<rodrigo_> already said hi to pitti :)
<seb128> pitti, less busy today with half of the people at somehand
<seb128> but nice otherwise
<rodrigo_> seb128, how's the weather in budapest, btw?
<seb128> rodrigo_, sorry got sidetracked, weather is nice
<seb128> over 20Â°c during the day, nice enough to have a tshirt
<seb128> but better to have a jacket for the evenings
<rodrigo_> ok, cool
<rodrigo_> seb128, so after rebasing from debian, we can keep doing our own changes to the gnome3 packages, right? like updating to a new upstream version, right?
<seb128> sure
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> you can do it in the same update
<seb128> just bump the changelog version
<seb128> no need of a new changelog entry
<seb128> just update the one you are using to summarize the changes to the current version
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, I already uploaded the package, so need a proper update
<seb128> right
<jbicha> what's the scope of the gnome3 PPA? is it going to be a copy of everything gnome3 from oneiric?
<jbicha> for instance, gnome-panel 3 won't play nice with Natty's indicators so it wouldn't be as useful to have that
<jbicha> in the PPA, right?
<rodrigo_> jbicha, ideally, we should keep the ppa to have 3.0.x updates, at least for what we have right now
<rodrigo_> jbicha, for the panel, once it's available in oneiric, we can just backport it to the PPA
<rodrigo_> jbicha, but remember we 1st need e-d-s 3.0
<rodrigo_> that's why I didn't even try to package it
<jbicha> you mean evolution?
<rodrigo_> yes, evolution-data-server
<jbicha> that's required for gnome-panel?
<rodrigo_> yes, for the clock applet afaik
<rodrigo_> we can build without it though
<jbicha> but is gnome-panel 3 a good idea for Natty users?
<rodrigo_> jbicha, are you going to UDS?
<rodrigo_> jbicha, well, see the thread in ubuntu-devel-discuss, it seems it is for some
<jbicha> no, I don't have the money & didn't apply for sponsorship, I'm going to try to get sponsored for Orlando though
<jbicha> is this guy's Evolution good? https://launchpad.net/~danilo/+archive/evolution
<rodrigo_> yes, that's danilo, so yeah!
<jbicha> ok, I don't know him :-) but I'm relatively new to the Desktop team
<rodrigo_> he told me about his epiphany packages, but not these ones, so cool that we have them
<jbicha> I found it through reading through some of the forums today, the forums are a scary place
<rodrigo_> yes, they are :)
<rodrigo_> but I see you can find useful info sometimes :)
<jbicha> gksudo apt-get dist-upgrade appears to break .ICEauthority permissions not that I've ever tried that
<jbicha> I wish we could nuke the ill-advised recommendations there
<rodrigo_> in the forums? isn't there a forum administrator/reviewer?
<jbicha> oh, I haven't tried the report post feature, let me see if that works
<seb128> rodrigo_, the issue is that we can't port the gnome-panel to gtk3 without applets and indicators and if indicators then unity
<seb128> jbicha, ^
<jbicha> seb128: so are you saying you don't want gnome-panel 3 in even Oneiric yet?
<seb128> correct
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, we need to port everything
<seb128> we should start with components we can get in without breaking our default desktop and then think about transitions for the remaining bits
<seb128> same for gdm
<rodrigo_> yes
<JanC> hmpf, my compose key doesn't work anymore?
<nivardus> does the gnome3-team ppa have gnome-tweaks or is there another simple way to change icon themes?
<xclaesse> nivardus, it has gnome-tweak-tool
<nivardus> oop, thanks :)
<fagan> Hmmm I wanted to catch jono or rick but they must be at the canonical summit :/
<cassidy> seb128, are you still having users reporting this crash https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/750118 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 750118 in empathy "empathy-auth-client crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invalidate() (dup-of: 726842)" [Undecided,New]
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 726842 in telepathy-glib "empathy-auth-client crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invalidate()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> cassidy, not recently
<seb128> we turn off apport by default in stable but we didn't get recent duplicates before doing either it seems
<cassidy> seb128, neither of us is experiencing is any more so I'm wondering if it may have been fixed as a side effect of another change
<seb128> could be
<seb128> you can close it if you think it's fixed, we will reopen if needed
<cyphermox> seb128: I'm looking at the policykit-1-gnome merge, running into a small issue -- would it be better to follow upstream, which drops status icons for temporary authz and also drop out indicator patch, or keep the indicator patch and increase it with the partial revert of the commit which drops status-icon support?
<cassidy> seb128, ok, please let me know if more dups are reported
<cyphermox> oops
<seb128> re
<seb128> cyphermox, sorry got sidetracked
<seb128> cyphermox, do you know why they dropped it? you should check with mpt what design think about it
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> it got dropped mostly because gnome-sheel doesn't have status icons ;)
<mpt> \o/
<seb128> well GNOME3 stopped using it iirc
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> well they don't integrated the authentification agent in the shell, or at least the ui
<seb128> -don't
<seb128> mpt, \o/ means we don't need to bother about having an icon indicating that the password is unlocked?
<rodrigo_> status icons are deprecated in gnome3, notifications are used instead
<seb128> rodrigo_, well notifications are not great at telling you the status of something
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: yeah, the problem is what to do with the indicator patch that more or less depends on it ;)
<seb128> they are nice to tell you what changed
<cyphermox> fwiw, I don't feel strongly about that particular indicator
<rodrigo_> seb128, there's a bar at the bottom in the shell, with icons for the notifications
<cyphermox> all it would allow you to do would be drop the privs; you can still wait for it to timeout, or lock screen which should eventually drop them
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, it can be used for status notifications
<seb128> well it also tell you that the authentification is granted
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, which indicator patch?
<pitti> good night everyone!
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: the one for policykit-1-gnome
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, so it's not totally deprecated
<cyphermox> night pitti
<seb128> pitti, have fun
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, what is deprecated, or being deprecated, is GtkStatusIcon
<seb128> rodrigo_, they still display those in the messaging area though?
<rodrigo_> seb128, in the bottom bar of gnome-shell, which is hidden all the time until you hover the mouse to the bottom right corner
<seb128> right
<rodrigo_> seb128, the icons in the top bar are, afaik, gnome-shell extensions
<rodrigo_> although there is the network manager icon, so I guess it has a systray also
<seb128> well it's bit orthogonal to the question to know if we need a visual clue that authentification are granted and a way to revoke the active token
<seb128> which was the question there
<rodrigo_> yeah, sorry, joined the discussion in the middle :)
<mpt> seb128, sorry, was in a meeting
<seb128> mpt, no worry
<mpt> seb128, yes, if the icon is gone, there's a bug reported about that that is now fixed
<mpt> about the icon not being understandable
<seb128> ok great
<mpt> bug 550502
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 550502 in policykit-1-gnome ""Drop all elevated privileges" menu doesn't make sense" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550502
<cyphermox> great
<seb128> should we indicate in some other way that they is an active privilege token?
<seb128> let me read the bug ;-)
<seb128> well there is still an usecase it solved, but I guess if people have issues they will file a bug and we can handle it as a wishlist for better priviledge handling
<mpt> seb128, right. One example might be a checkbox in the initial PolicyKit dialog.
<mpt> (Though that still wouldn't let you clear it after the fact.)
<seb128> let's do the obvious and easy fix for now and follow upstream on dropping the icon
<cyphermox> ok.
<cyphermox> as for dropping privs, it was in the upstream bug about this being dropped (or the commit), that eventually screensaver should call for polkit to drop privs, which may cover one such use case
<mpt> yeah, I was just thinking about dropping them when you choose Lock Screen
<cyphermox> we need to rework screensaver stuff this cycle no? this should probably be added to the blueprint
<cyphermox> someone wants to review my merge for policykit-1-gnome? --> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/policykit-1-gnome/merge-debian-0.101-2/+merge/60099
<bdrung_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-units-policy/
<TheMuso> bdrung_: Good idea.
<bdrung_> TheMuso: i hope that enough desktop and gnome people attend.
<TheMuso> Has it bee scheduled yet?
<bdrung_> TheMuso: no. i just created it.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<TheMuso> You'll have to wait till the powers that be get to it then.
 * bdrung_ is a little bit late with creating blueprints.
<TheMuso> Thats alright, you can probably squeeze it in there somewhere, and it is rather important, at least IMO.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-06
 * TheMuso is finding it difficult to work out why someone who wrote a packaging patch for a debian package decided to remove a .install file and use dh_install calls in debian/rules instead...
<TheMuso> Baffling.
<RAOF> Even well-understood magic can be, well, magic, I guess.
<TheMuso> Yeah, but I would have thought creating a new install file for the newly created binary package would be easier.
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<astropirate> Anyone know if the gnome3-team PPA is working?
<astropirate> i mean stable
<astropirate> *enough to use
<TheMuso> From what I've heard, yes it is, but I haven't used it myself.
<vish> !gnome3 | astropirate
<ubot2> astropirate: Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
<astropirate> i don't care about unit. it is buggy
<astropirate> *unity
<vish> astropirate: also mentions "â¦ and possibly other parts of your system," so use it at your own risk ;)
<astropirate> hehe i plan to
<astropirate> but just wanted to know if others had allready risked and if it had worked
<vish> astropirate: you'd have better luck about that question on #ubuntu â¦
<astropirate> vish ok, thanks
<vish> yw..
<jbicha> I use the gnome3 PPA but I don't recommend others do
<astropirate> i tink this is the perfect opertunity to try other distros :D
<astropirate> expanding horizons and all that junk
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<vish> the world is your oyster!
<TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
<chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
<vish> morn chrisccoulson â¦
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Not too bad thanks, just starting to get final bits and pieces together for my trip to UDS.
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> TheMuso: good luck!
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, when do you travel?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: splendid, thanks! slowly getting used to getting up at 6
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to be a fairly late arriver, i don't travel until sunday :)
<TheMuso> pitti: Thanks, there is a little bit of luck involved I guess.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: I fly out tomorrow afternoon my time.
<TheMuso> In less than 24 hours to be exact.
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<cdbs> Umm, is the Software Center 'reviews' server down?
<cdbs> mpt: ^^
<mpt> cdbs, works for me
<mpt> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/reviews.ubuntu.com
<pitti> o_O is there _anything_ the internet doesn't provide?
<pitti> hah, http://iamboredandhavenothingtodo.com/ doesn't exist; quickly, point it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu!
<abhinav-> pitti: is there a gir for xlib as well ?
<pitti> abhinav-: not an usable one, I think; /usr/share/gir-1.0/xlib-2.0.gir merely provides some struct names and open_display
<pitti> abhinav-: use python-xlib for this
<pitti> (static binding)
<abhinav-> ah thanks
<abhinav-> pitti: in gtk2 this feature could have been added without any unnecessary extra dependencies but with gtk3 the list is mounting up and still no success :-/
<pitti> abhinav-: at this point you should perhaps file an upstream bug with the requirements and point out the lost API?
<abhinav-> pitti: yeah. good suggestion. I cannot find any work around now :(
<pitti> or gnome-screenshot should just be taught to give you the XID/pid
<pitti> abhinav-: sorry for all the trouble..
<abhinav-> pitti: yeah, it could be added to gnome-screenshot but it will add dependency on cairo and that will have to be done in C :-|
<abhinav-> pitti: no problem, its just that every morning I feel like I could do it today :P
<pitti> heh
<cdbs> chrisccoulson: The globalmenu extension in oneiric Thunderbird doesn't hide up the old-style menubar from the window
<cdbs> didrocks: hello there! Could you take a look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps-unity-integration ?
<didrocks> cdbs: hey Bilal! sure having a look :)
<didrocks> cdbs: is that something you want to work on?
<cdbs> didrocks: yep, but others could pick up just as well.
<cdbs> didrocks: We need to decide which app needs what
<cdbs> didrocks: and there are a ton of non-default-but-immensely-popular apps which could do with integration as well.
<cdbs> all that has to be decided
<cdbs> didrocks: So if you say so, I'll set assignee to myself
<didrocks> cdbs: ok, I'll ensure we have a designer coming and that it's scheduled then :)
<didrocks> cdbs: sure ;)
 * cdbs sets
<cdbs> done
<didrocks> pitti: hey, can you approve this one, please? ^^
<cdbs> didrocks: its approved already
<cdbs> pitti: ^
<cdbs> pitti: oh no wait, it isn't
<didrocks> no, it's still "proposed"
<didrocks> I'm subscribing Jorge as well as we will need some community advocacy as well
<cdbs> exactly
<cdbs> Weird that the assignee would be attending remotely :(
<pitti> not "proposed" any more :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<cdbs> didrocks: Enjoying Budapest? How's the whether there?
<didrocks> pitti: Guten Tag! ;)
<cdbs> pitti: Good morning , and thanks :)
 * cdbs should *seriously* learn french
<didrocks> cdbs: well, depends, one day, it's a london weather, the other day it's really sunny ;)
<didrocks> some kind of flip/flap :)
<didrocks> cdbs: yeah, this is mandatory! :p
<pitti> for now I should seriously learn some Hungarian phrases
<didrocks> pitti: the "Sorry, I don't speak Hungarian" one? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for acking!
<cdbs> pitti: Fire up google translate and translate that :)
<pitti> "ElnÃ©zÃ©st, Ã©n nem beszÃ©lek magyarul!", ugh
<pitti> at least the pronounciation seems to be pretty straightforward
<seb128> does it? ;-)
<cdbs> it is, just read it like one reads English
<cdbs> :)
<pitti> cdbs: exactly not -- English pronounciation is horribly inconsistent
<pitti> German, Russian, Hungarian etc. have strict rules, you pronounce as you write
 * pitti tries to remember "SzeretnÃ©k kÃ©t sÃ¶rt" (two beer please)
<Laney> I like your style â no need to ever order just one ;-)
<cdbs> sudo dd if=/dev/beer of=/home/pitti/glass{1,2} count=2048  # That's the unified way of saying that, no language barriers :)
<pitti> why sudo?
<pitti> access to beer should be fairly public!
<cdbs> oops
<Laney> requires administrator access to your body
<Laney> aka adulthood
<pitti> heh
<jbicha> use sudo when you really want to make sure something gets done
<jbicha> -f helps too :-)
<pitti> one day I want a T-Shirt with http://xkcd.com/149/
<davmor2> is there a way to make unity show up in the share my desktop feature on empathy?
<jbicha> pitti: oh you mean like this one? http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#Sudo
<pitti> right
<jbicha> but you want someone else to buy it for you? lol
<hyperair> does anybody know if we're moving to gtk3 in oneiric?
<pitti> hyperair: yes, we will
<hyperair> pitti: okay, awesome.
<pitti> gets high time to do so :)
<hyperair> yeah
<ricotz> jbicha, ping
<ricotz> jbicha, regarding the gnome-session 3.0.1 merge, what is the reason for dropping debian/po-up/de.po?
<cyphermox> good morning!
<pitti> hey cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey pitti
<cyphermox> hey piiti, I seem to have a bug 776662 here that mentions an possible issue with gnome-panel ...ubuntu6.5; would make that system crash. any ideas how/why this would be?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 776662 in network-manager-applet "network-manager-gnome crashes on logon after the last update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776662
<pitti> cyphermox: oh, that was for me
<pitti> cyphermox: ah, so presumably a regression from the SRU in bug 774427?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 774427 in gnome-panel "Cannot add applets to second X server display in 11.04" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774427
<cyphermox> maybe
<pitti> cyphermox: is it reproducible? I didn't try classic session recently
<cyphermox> I was about to try, but I doubt I'll be able to reproduce it
<pitti> I'd like to defer to rodrigo_ here, I need to leave now
<cyphermox> sure
<pitti> see you all in Budapest!
<cyphermox> see you there!
<jbicha> ricotz: oops, that wasn't intentional
<jbicha> I'm not really sure why that file would have been cleared on my computer; I had no reason to be touching the pos
<ricotz> jbicha, i see ;), do you want to propose a fix or shall i just add it back?
<jbicha> I can propose a merge for you
<ricotz> alright
<rodrigo_> I have to do some stuff for my trip to budapest, so if I'm not back later, see you all in budapest!
<jbicha> ricotz: thanks for letting me know
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: alright ;)
<bigon> what are the plan for gnome-shell and oneiric?
<kenvandine> bigon, we will be talking about that at UDS
<kenvandine> but we are expecting to have gtk3 and gnome3 in some fashion for oneirc
<bigon> alright
<kenvandine> but that isn't finalized or anything, just what we know we want to do
<bigon> ok ok
<bcurtiswx> bigon, do you know if cassidy is going to UDS?
<bigon> bcurtiswx: good question, I know he's going to the guadec, but I'm not sure about UDS
<bcurtiswx> bigon, OK thanks :)
<bigon> this make me think that I should take vacations to go to the guadec
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-07
<Omega> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/05/help-bring-disk-encryption-ubuntu-live-cd
<Omega> Seems like that's getting some press.
<cdbs> Any Desktop guy around who's free to sponsor something of high importance for Oneiric Testers?
<Laney> ther are oneiric testers pre-alpha-1?
<jbicha> Laney: I'm crazy like that
<Laney> sadist
<Laney> :P
<ricotz> Laney, hey, you havent updated yet? :P
<jbicha> I was surprised to hear there's not many that do it but it's probably just that the devs know better
<Laney> it's more that there's not much to test yet as people are just dumping stuff in
<hyperair> Laney: the word is masochist
 * hyperair has gone and enabled oneiric sources on his natty machine
<Laney> maybe /i/ am the sadist
<hyperair> let's see how that goes with appropriate pinning
<hyperair> heh
<jbicha> if it doesn't go well, you can give the installer or upgrading extra testing :-)
<hyperair> heh
 * hyperair wonders if pitti is around.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-08
<hyperair> hmm, how do i change the default photo manager from shotwell to f-spot?
<hyperair> interestingly, i can't change this in preferred applications
<jbicha> hyperair: are you using Gnome 2 or Gnome 3?
<hyperair> jbicha: gnome 2 + unity.
<hyperair> jbicha: i just dug through unity's source code and found that it's hardcoded to shotwell with a FIXME notice
<jbicha> is there a bug for that?
<hyperair> fortunately, it has hardcoded alternatives, so i just uninstalled shotwell and it falls back upon f-spot =)
<hyperair> i wonder
<hyperair> but there really isn't a gconf key to look at
<hyperair> so it's not really unity's bug, is it?
<jbicha> well they could look at the defaults.list for .jpg's for instance
<hyperair> hm
<hyperair> that's not quite right.
<hyperair> eog isn't a photo manager.
<Sofox> Hey, is mpt around?
<sumit> hiii friends
<sumit> I have some problems with my Ubuntu 10.10
<sumit> I am a new user
<sumit> My computer is hanging frequently .. what do
<sumit> also suggest anything like folderlock or password protecting software
<sumit> any1??
<Ampelbein> sumit: user support is in #ubuntu
<sumit> ok
<sumit> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-30
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hah!  You recent G+ post makes it sound like my arrival causes screens to change colour!
<RAOF> Heh.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, oh sweet, did you manage to get 2 ColorHugs in the end?
<robert_ancell> Do you owe much of your soul to Richard?
<RAOF> The 50-odd pounds I paid for mine covers that debt nicely :)
<RAOF> I'd already pre-ordered some time ago.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, btw, does it work out of the box in 12.04 or do you need to install any pacakges?
<RAOF> You can't calibrate with anything out of the box, but when you plug something in and hit the "calibrate" button it'll packagekit itself the necessary packages.
<RAOF> It looks like colord isn't built with colorhug support, though, and can't be because we apparently don't have libgusb yet.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so it doesn't work?
<robert_ancell> (unless you build from source?)
<RAOF> Not out of the box.
<RAOF> I'm now doing a little light debugging.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, cause if it doesn't I'd like to SRU up some packages so we can do it at UDS for random people with a 12.04 laptop
<Sarvatt> RAOF: was the huey i lent you making the screen obnoxiously pink like it was after i got it back from you?
<RAOF> Sarvatt: No, it wasn't.
<Sarvatt> its uselessly broken now
<Sarvatt> i want to buy a hug but 16 weeks lead time...
<RAOF> It's much more reasonable if you think of ordering 16 weeks in the past :)
<Sarvatt> i have a color profile on this pc from calibrating it before lending it to you in budapest thats so much better than stock it isnt funny but need to calibrate more screens
<Sarvatt> apparently it normal hueys go dead in a few months and calibrate too pink
<Sarvatt> now if only UDS wasnt so screwed compared to GBP
<Sarvatt> USD rather
<Sarvatt> $112 for a colorhug :(
<RAOF> Oooh, ow.
<mlankhorst> morning
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Good morning!
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<RAOF> Fellow Humans!
<rickspencer3> RAOF,  "fellow" humans?
<BigWhale> I wanted to add "take me to your leader", but it would be a bit too much :>
<RAOF> rickspencer3: You're a Jolly Fellow, right? :)
<rickspencer3> RAOF, hmmm, I presume Jolly Fellow is some slang I don't know?
<RAOF> No, not really.
<RAOF> It just indicates a certain intonation of âjolly fellowâ. :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<BigWhale> Hm, python3 does something funny to ctypes types. All the char pointers are converted to byte sequences instead of strings ...
<Sweetshark> micahg: yes it is.
<micahg> Sweetshark: thanks
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, am i basically on my own today?
<micahg> good morning chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi
<czajkowski> Good morning
 * ogra_ watches from the fence to see how chrisccoulson deals with that much power :) 
<chrisccoulson> wow, i can't believe it's not raining this morning
<lifeless> I recently gave my dad my old D430
<lifeless> its hanging a lot for him
<lifeless> X lockup, I think, as he can ssh into it.
<lifeless> is there a debug-howto for X these days ?
<RAOF> lifeless: There's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting
<lifeless> intel card of course, don't suppose we know of a known problem on dell D430's ?
<RAOF> Do you happen to know what card it's got?
<lifeless> not offhand
<lifeless> Its probaly in LP in a bug somewhere :)
<lifeless> RAOF: separately, https://twitter.com/#!/jamezpolley/status/196916428916535297
<lifeless> (further back has his hardware)
<lifeless> should I point him at the same page ?
<RAOF> Yeah; particularly https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/BlankScreen
<lifeless> RAOF: thanks
<jo-erlend> I found some time to play with Vala again. Thought I'd just make a simple WebKit-thing. That's not simple with Vala/GTK3. Doesn't seem to be packaged. The advise I get is to copy .vapi and .deps, edit the  .deps-file and import the new name. That's not particularly app-developer friendly. Any reason why this is so?
<jo-erlend> I mean; there's no difficulties with GTK3 and Python from GIR, so webkit obviously handles it.
<dobey> jo-erlend: i odn't understand what your question is there
<dobey> jo-erlend: problem is there is no webkit vapi?
<dobey> jo-erlend: ah, i see you asked in the correct place (#vala)
<chrisccoulson> jbicha_ is being very calm on the "let's all jump on the ubuntu-hating bandwagon" thread on G+ ;)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: oh, which thread?
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, https://plus.google.com/u/0/107928060492923463788/posts/gxnw6ZzCXV9
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, https://twitter.com/#!/lucasratmundo/status/196899565985742848
<dobey> chrisccoulson: that's it, i'm installing arch.
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> right, i need to pop to the optician now
<chrisccoulson> bbiab
<kenvandine> dobey, hehe
<jo-erlend> dobey, yes, I asked in #Vala first. I haven't used WebKit in Vala before. But I have used GTK3 with WebKit before, using Python. So to me, it seems like it must be a bug.
<jo-erlend> dobey, things like that should still be able to make it into 12.04, right?
<dobey> jo-erlend: i doubt it
<dobey> jo-erlend: a new version of vala almost certainly wouldn't make it into precise anyway. if upstream webkit added the vapis and made a new release that needed to go into preise for security fixes, then maybe it could go in that way. but i wouldn't bet on that happening
<jo-erlend> Ubuntu is just too weird in some areas. All this talk about Ubuntu as an app development platform, but WebKit is excluded?
<jo-erlend> WebKit is probably _the_ most important tool for new programmers, because you can accomplish fairly impressive results with little code.
<dobey> jo-erlend: well you can't use webkit 3.0 from java either right now. Just because it isn't usable from all possible languages on the platform, doesn't mean it's excluded. Ubuntu is just as dependent on upstream development as any other Linux distro.
<jo-erlend> dobey, I'd say Vala is slightly more relevant than Java to Ubuntu development.
<dobey> jo-erlend: then work with upstreams to get it supported, and it will be in 12.10; or invent a time machine, go back in time 6 months, work with upstreams, change history, and get it into 12.04. :)
<jo-erlend> dobey, the problem is that as long as functionality is intermittent, we can't make Ubuntu an attractive platform for development. And if we can't do that, then we also can't make it attractive to users.
<dobey> you are overreacting.
<jo-erlend> I ported by PyGTK application to GI. Then I realized to my horror that it would never work because of a bug in GTK or the GTK GIR overrides. So I started porting it to Vala. Being a Gnome language, I thought, it should be much better at GIR. And so far, it seems to be. But a major part of the application is webkit, which cannot be used in Vala.
<jo-erlend> s/by/my/
<jo-erlend> of course, there was no way of knowing this when I started the development.
<dobey> you can use gtk2 webkit in vala for your application right now. and it will work.
<jo-erlend> have you tried?
<dobey> tried in what respect? i have done it, if that's what you mean
<jo-erlend> because I got about 950 errors about GTK2/GTK3 incompatibilities when I tried doing that.
<dobey> well you can't use gtk3 *and* gtk2 webkit
<jo-erlend> right.
<dobey> at least, not in the same binary
<dobey> and i ported gwibber-accounts to gtk3, which uses webkit and is python. not sure what but prevents you from using that
<jo-erlend> in Python, WebKit is not a problem. TreeViews is the problem. You can't make custom models in Python for use with GTK3 applications.
<jo-erlend> That's been holding Gramps back for about a year, for instance.
<dobey> what sort of custom model? are TreeStore or ListStore somehow not good enough?
<jo-erlend> right.
<jo-erlend> Gramps uses a database, for instance. That's my grief too, except I use another database.
<jo-erlend> you can probably circumvent all these bugs. But the point is, it shouldn't be acceptable to have these kinds of bugs at all, if Ubuntu wants to become an attractive platform for app development.
<dobey> it is not specific to Ubuntu
<jo-erlend> I know. So what?
<dobey> so have you done anything to help fix them?
<jo-erlend> we can choose to fix those kinds of bugs in Ubuntu, or we can choose not to. If not, then Ubuntu should stop trying to attract developers, because they will be disappointed at some stage.
<dobey> Welcome to The Real World (TM), jo.
<dobey> developers are going to be disappointed by something on the platform at some stage, no matter what you do
<jo-erlend> dobey, yes, I have.  But I'm not able to go into GTK hacking. I don't have that knowledge, and I don't think that should be a requirement for writing Python applications either.
<dobey> but it's required to have knowledge to write a custom tree model in gtk+?
<jo-erlend> and if my fixes won't go into a stable environment for another two years anyway, I don't really see the point in putting any effort into it. See where I'm going?
<jo-erlend> dobey, not about the low-level C-code.
<jo-erlend> you can do it in GTK2, for instance. No problem.
<jbicha_> jo-erlend: GTK3 and gobject-introspection are still newish, no one is saying that everything works perfectly yet
<jo-erlend> jbicha_, no, but someone is telling me fixes won't go in. That's what I'm talking about.
<dobey> well it will never work perfectly. perfection is unattainable :)
<dobey> who is telling you fixes won't go in?
<jo-erlend> well, you did, didn't you?
<dobey> no, i said it is unlikely for the specific change you asked about, to end up in precise
<dobey> i didn't say no fixes would ever go in anywhere
<dobey> every issue in ubuntu is not a complete travesty. :)
<jo-erlend> of course not. But as a development platform, it isn't trustworthy. No sane developer would want to invest in something that might work, and if it doesn't, then it might get fixed two years from now.
<dobey> jo-erlend: vala doesn't even claim to be stable yet.
<dobey> jo-erlend: don't blame ubuntu for your choice of language not having the APIs you want to use.
<dobey> jo-erlend: and please stop overreacting. there are plenty of ways to make your application work.
<jbicha_> jo-erlend: would you rather wait 3 years for a new Windows release? or whenever Apple feels like it for a new OS X release?
<jo-erlend> "blame"? I'm not talking about blame. I'm talking about becoming better as we learn what the faults are.
<dobey> jbicha_: don't forget also assuming that they even know about the issue, and are willing to fix it, ever. :)
<jo-erlend> jbicha_, that is actually a very good question. As a developer... I might.
<dobey> jo-erlend: if you're willing to wait 3 years, then you can wait 2, no?
<jo-erlend> when manuals are wrong and you're told not to blame Ubuntu when you bring it up, then it is a serious issue, I think.
<dobey> also, 6 months is not 2 years, so i don't know what you are talking about 2 years for
<dobey> what manuasl are wrong?
<jo-erlend> dobey, the manual for GTK is wrong.
<dobey> and why do you keep changing the point of focus?
<jo-erlend> huh?
<dobey> first it was webkit 3.0 isn't available from vala, then it was you can't do a custom tree model in python with GIR, then it was not waiting for 2 years for a fix, now it's gtk+ manual is broken
<jo-erlend> dobey, I asked you; if I fix the bug with webkit; will I get it into 12.04? No. That means I'll have to wait two more years. That brings up the question about why Ubuntu doesn't fix development bugs if it wants to become an attractive platform for developers.
<dobey> jo-erlend: if you want to port your app to vala, why not get it working with gtk2 now?
<dobey> jo-erlend: no it doesn't mean you have to wait 2 years. 12.10 will be released in october. if you fix the issue now, it will be included in that release.
<jo-erlend> right.
<jo-erlend> you don't see the problem at all, do you? :)
<dobey> jo-erlend: i also didn't say it wouldn't be included in 12.04 updates. i said it was highly unlikely. there are a lot of variables
<dobey> jo-erlend: the only problem i see, is that you are overreacting and actively avoiding any reasonable solution to your problem
<jo-erlend> dobey, it is highly unlikely that I'll invest an unknown amount of time fixing something that is unlikely to be of any value to anyone.
<jo-erlend> dobey, no, I am not talking about _my_ problem. I am talking about Ubuntus problem. If we don't fix bugs, then people won't trust it. If people doesn't trust it, then people won't invest in it.
<jo-erlend> development blockers has to be fixed. And you shouldn't have to replace your operating system in order to do so either.
<dobey> *sigh*
<jo-erlend> you don't agree?
<dobey> you are overreacting and being unreasonable. again.
<jo-erlend> it is unreasonable for developers to expect that bugs that prevents them from completing their programs, will get fixed?
<dobey> "I need this newer version of this programming language which is part of your older system offering, so you should ship it on your older system." is unreasonable, yes. do you think ubuntu should ship a new gcc version on 12.04, because the one on 12.10 will be newer and have additional options which aren't available on 12.04, just so you can use those options?
<jo-erlend> I don't understand the connection there. What does this have to do with new versions of programming languages or compilers?
<dobey> because you're assuming the fix is already made in some way which is acceptable to ship on ubuntu 12.04. and positing all of your argumentation based on that assumption.
<jo-erlend> I am? I asked because I am going to fix it for my own applications sake, but I wanted to know if there's any chance of getting it into 12.04. From what I read, it's a very minor issue, after all. I mean; we do know that webkit works with GI and GTK3.
<dobey> the current webkit-1.0.vapi is shipped as part of vala itself. if a webkit-3.0.vapi is shipped as part of vala, then it will be included in the new vala, which is a new version of an unstable programming language
<jo-erlend> the question is whether a provably perfect patch that fixes a bug that prevents people from completing their programs should be fixed in this operating system or not.
<jo-erlend> dobey, right. But it doesn't _have_ to be?
<dobey> well, ideally the vapi would be generated in the upstream webkit source from the gir which also is generated there
<dobey> however, gobject-introspection is itself new, and unstable
<jo-erlend> I still don't understand what it is about Vala 0.14 or 0.16 that prevents the vapi to be generated now.
<dobey> also, new API is new API, and the platform is api frozen. additional .vapi files would need special exceptions
<dobey> jo-erlend: well the GIRs are broken
<jo-erlend> dobey, then why does it work in Python?
<dobey> jo-erlend: becuase python isn't vala?
<dobey> and work is subjective
<jo-erlend> dobey, WebKit GIRs?
<jo-erlend> I don't understand.
<jo-erlend> WebKit works with GTK3 in Python. That is the same library I want to use with Vala, right?
<dobey> many GIRs are broken. the WebKit ones are, as well as many of the underlying libraries it depends on
<dobey> they might be usable from Python for certain things, sure. but they are by no means complete, 100% correct, or stable.
<dobey> and right now, i require lunch.
<jo-erlend> right, as you said, Ubuntu isn't perfect. But in Vala, we don't have it at all. It's not a question of not being 100% correct. It's about being 100% absent. And I don't know why it can't be fixed.
<jo-erlend> In 12.04, the development cycle QA improved dramatically, but some bugs will never be discovered until after release. If they can't be fixed, then we're in trouble. Specially if the OS in question is an LTS release.
<jbicha_> jo-erlend: you understand the difference between fixing a bug and adding a new feature, right?
<jo-erlend> jbicha_, not necessarily, no.
<jbicha_> simple bug fixes can get into Ubuntu stable releases relatively easily, new features require FFe approval and probably won't happen
<jbicha_> some things can show up in -backports, but I believe libraries are bad candidates for that
<jo-erlend> jbicha_, but in this case, it's not a library. WebKit is working fine right now, at least as far as I can tell.
<jo-erlend> I understand that you have to be cautious. But I don't understand that if you want to stick to an LTS, then you can't get improved development tools.
<jo-erlend> particularly when it's minor issues that's causing the blockers.
<kenvandine> jo-erlend, yeah, the problem is it isn't necessarily trivial to include the vapi
<jo-erlend> kenvandine, that's what I don't understand.
 * kenvandine has no idea why it isn't there... dobey problem knows the situation better
<kenvandine> but from my understanding the upstream build system doesn't generate it
<jo-erlend> "because someone probably hasn't needed it yet", was the explanation in #Vala@gimpnet.
<kenvandine> so changing it to do so, might not be trivial...
<kenvandine> jo-erlend, right...
<kenvandine> but it also means if we added it now, it would be completely untested
<jo-erlend> so, Ubuntu app developers has to wait two years, or replace their operating system. That's just not good enough.
<kenvandine> and from my experience... newly generated vapis tend to expose more bugs
<jo-erlend> kenvandine, it wouldn't be untested if it was tested first.
<kenvandine> it isn't like testing an app... it is bindings for the api
<kenvandine> anyway, i understand your point that it really sucks not having it in the LTS
<kenvandine> but it clearly doesn't mean the guidelines for an SRU
<kenvandine> which is sad...
<jo-erlend> it's not sad. It's devastating if the goal is to become a viable platform for professional third-party developers.
<kenvandine> jo-erlend, assuming vala is really critical for attracting new developers
 * kenvandine does like vala... 
<jo-erlend> I certainly think so.
<kenvandine> jo-erlend, basically it isn't because we don't want the vapi there... it is just too late for 12.04 :(
<jo-erlend> Vala is the coolest thing I've toyed with for years. Obviously, it's young and there's lots of improvements to be seen. But that's the point; we can't wait two years to see those improvements.
<kenvandine> if it got some good testing in a ppa or something, perhaps someone could beg for an SRU in time for a 12.04.1 and make the case for it
<dobey> sigh
<dobey> jo-erlend: does whatever you're using webkit for, need to embed flash or other plug-ins?
<jo-erlend> dobey, I'm not quite sure, actually. Why do you ask?
<dobey> jo-erlend: because you can't embed flash in gtk3 webkit anyway, so if you have to embed it then you have to use gtk2
<jo-erlend> wow. I didn't know that. I don't use Flash that often. Is anybody compiling a list of these limitations?
<dobey> jo-erlend: well, webkit loads the plug-isn internally, and flash uses gtk2, so loading it inside gtk3 results in the conflicting symbols problems
<jo-erlend> ah. Ok. That's not easily fixed either.
<dobey> jo-erlend: i /think/ that webkit-gtk will use the new webkit stuff for 12.10, which has the plug-ins as separate processes though, so those issues should go away when that switch happens
<dobey> but that is also very unlikely to get SRUed to 12.04
<jbicha_> jo-erlend: I guess you don't use Epiphany then because it has that Flash problem ;)
<jo-erlend> jbicha_, I almost never use Flash at all.
<jo-erlend> What about that new thing... Spark?
<jbicha_> look for info about webkit2 if you want to learn more about that, the new API is still experimental & incomplete though (it's not enabled for 12.04 either)
<jo-erlend> Flash is no big deal to me personally. But if someone thinks they can write a new browser, it might be somewhat interesting :)
<jo-erlend> hmm. GTK has a slots-feature, doesn't it? Wonder if it could be used to embed GTK2 things in GTK3?
<jo-erlend> sockets.
<jo-erlend> I think I'm going to see if that works.
<dobey> jo-erlend: yes, you can use plug+socket (XEmbed) api to embed a gtk2 thing from one process into a gtk3 application, but they can't be the same process. this is how the plug-in works already, the problem is that it gets loaded in-process currently. and webkit2 fixes that
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Turns out that the version of argyll we have in Precise doesn't support the colorhug. :/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, any reason not to update to the latest one?
<RAOF> No.  We'll get that one for free in Qantal
<RAOF> Oh, no, it'll need a merge.
<RAOF> But updating a to a new argyll in precise would be a pretty dicey SRU.
<JanC> could go into -backports?
<RAOF> Absolutely.  Once Qantal is open, presumably.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, we need it in a PPA at least so people can actually calibrate their monitors...
<RAOF> robert_ancell: *That* I can easily provide.
<robert_ancell> hmm, the versions page has lost track of upstream on that one
<TheMuso> Well quantal is now open.
<RAOF> Oh, we've apparently (seemingly needlessly) diverged from Debian on argyll since 2010.
<RAOF> Well, not initially needlessly; we've got a newer version than Debian had in 2010 :/
<RAOF> TheMuso: Ah, the archive bootstrapping has finished?  Great!
<TheMuso> According to the ubuntu-devel ML.
 * TheMuso groans. More chainsaws going outside, making it hard to think...
 * TheMuso hopes he doesn't hear the dreaded mulcher today...
<robert_ancell> RAOF, given nothing seems to actually use it perhaps it could be SRUd?
<RAOF> Possibly, yeah.
<RAOF> We could also try just pulling in the colourhug support patch.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-01
<mlankhorst> RAOF: yeah, but still trying to get a hold of jasoncwarner_ :)
<TheMuso> mlankhorst: Afaik he is traveling/in the US now and likely recovering.
<RAOF> Yeah, that was my thought.  He's usually available.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: We should probably have some form of screen-attachment hack for the colour calibration session - the colourhug itself doesn't have any way to attach to a screen.  Probably some elastic would do.
<cyphermox> EDS SRU coming up...
<jasoncwarner_> hey AU folk...how is everything?
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell RAOF TheMuso bryceh ^^ (bryce is honorary AU folk...and robert_ancell is still "AU")
<RAOF> Peachy.
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, no AU here
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, first day done?
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: AU jr. ?
<RAOF> I've just discovered that you can run piuparts locally!
<robert_ancell> RAOF is on the western island
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: oh man...sooooo tired. was up since 4am local time, but I've gotten like 7 hours total sleep since waking up AU sunday
<RAOF> Mmmmm, international.
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, *wave*
<RAOF> robert_ancell: With the *really big* north island above me? :)
<jasoncwarner_> hey bryceh and RAOF ? for ya on X...when are we going to get rid of frankenserver and bring down new x stack for Q? I remember us saying we wanted to do that early in the cycle, but wasn't sure *how* early
<jasoncwarner_> something we should do soon?
<bryceh> guess it's probably not time critical
<bryceh> traditionally we wait until the week or so after UDS
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: should we do it sooner rather than later? or ...not matter?
<jasoncwarner_> k
<RAOF> There's not a lot of people using quantal at this point, and even if there were, now that proposed works we'll be able to smoothly upgrade anyway.
<bryceh> would be inconvenient to break everyone just as they're getting ready to fly out :-)
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh and RAOF cool...ok, so about the week after UDS...works for me.
<bryceh> RAOF, I'm thinking less about transition troubles, more about just plain old X bugs.  But yeah, not many people will be running it right now, it probably doesn't matter too much one way or the other
<RAOF> Previously the rationale for early X transitions was that they broke stuff.
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF and that is what I'm worried about now. though, Chase says we shouldn't have issues with input b/c all that stuff is upstream? but, week after UDS seems as good as any
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Hey there, hope your travels were uneventful.
<jasoncwarner_> hey TheMuso ! Yeah, so far so good. nothing too stressful :) thanks for asking!
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: But this time around we *won't* break stuff, except in the case of bugs; it'll be like Precise, where people didn't notice that we did a server transition.
<RAOF> Except maybe nvidia & fglrx ;)
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: always fun with those two ;)
<RAOF> Yup!
<kenvandine> jasoncwarner_, are you in oakland already?
<jasoncwarner_> kenvandine: yuppers!
<kenvandine> cool, good trip?
<jasoncwarner_> kenvandine: yeah, no drama. oak is nice enough
<jasoncwarner_> found a decent gym ;)
<kenvandine> cool, you'll be all rested by the time i get there :)
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: Nice and close?
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: yeah, right around the corner...works!
<dupondje> Got some odd bug every 10 boots with Gnome-shell
<dupondje> it boots fine, logging in, but then I get an incomplete gnome-shell. Like not everything loads.
<dupondje> No errors, but it stops loading. Need to kill gnome-shell to get it working again.
<dupondje> Any idea's how to debug that & give it a bugreport :)
<mlankhorst> anything suspicious in ~/.xsession-errors ?
<dupondje> ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area
<dupondje> ** Message: using fallback from indicator to GtkStatusIcon
<dupondje> ** Message: applet now embedded in the notification area
<dupondje> nothing else
<Laney> quiet today
<Laney> is it a holiday or something? :P
<dupondje> it is
<mlankhorst> dupondje: hm doesn't really look interesting :(
<dupondje> mlankhorst: Indeed :) but its quite annoying sometimes. You boot, and bam, gnome-shell refuses to do its work :P
<mlankhorst> noon
 * Laney is merging bluez
<cyphermox> Laney: there are changes slangasek wanted to land, for python3
<Laney> cool
<Laney> are they anywhere?
<cyphermox> yes, just a second
<Laney> shame they weren't in the udd branch
<cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu/quantal/bluez/python3/+merge/103795
<cyphermox> there may be a little work to fix things, see barry's review
<Laney> i'll have a look
<cyphermox> we can always apply that later though
<Laney> may be easier to ubuntu2 it, yeah
<cyphermox> there's something else that may be nice too, though it would require discussing with the Debian maintainer
<cyphermox> splitting hid2hci into a separate package like Fedora does... hid2hci enabled and isntalled by default is a major pain, although I agree it's helpful to some people
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: ^^
<cyphermox> but I'll happily take care of that later
<Laney> yeah
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, without it, bluetooth just doesn't work at all on my dell laptop
<chrisccoulson> and it's not exactly uncommon hardware
<chrisccoulson> i've got 2 dell laptops that both require it
<chrisccoulson> i guess seb128 has the same hardware in his too
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: right, but there's also issues with logitech devices that we can't really fix, because they appear to share USB IDs
<cyphermox> maybe getting rid of some of the rules may be better then
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be better
<cyphermox> or figuring out why your hardware requires that, seems very weird
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: did you send me the USB IDs for your bluetooth device?
<cyphermox> and/or the model of the laptop, then maybe I can mess with it again in the hardware lab
<cyphermox> the Logitech rules appear to be the most problematic
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/960212/
<chrisccoulson> it's a dell e6410
<cyphermox> interesting
<cyphermox> that does look like something that should be working out of the box from the kernel driver :/
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: it's integrated, right?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, yeah
<cyphermox> ok
<chrisccoulson> although, i did fit this one myself
<chrisccoulson> but it's the one that dell normally fit to their laptops
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> there's some chance we have that in the lab, so I'll try this Thursday or so when I get in the office
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: ah, that was for a suspend issue?
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, i don't recall having a suspend issue
<cyphermox> nm, I'm misreading the rule
<cyphermox> yeah, I guess it would have to be just removing the Logitech rules
<cyphermox> Laney: if you want to take care of it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/269851  seems like the "fix" would be to not switch either that particular logitech device (c714) or dropping the Logitech rules altogether; because those are normally external dongles that support keyboard and mouse; and using those on a liveCD or installer is problematic, since you wouldn't have pairings yet, and need
<cyphermox> another keyboard or mouse to make one :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 269851 in bluez "Bluetooth Logitech Dinovo Edge Keyboard/Mouse does not work anymore" [Medium,Incomplete]
<cyphermox> otherwise I'll add it to my todo and get back to it in a few days
<Laney> cyphermox: I'd be a bit leery changing it without being able to test
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I can only test my own dongle though, that's not covering the same device as in the bug either :(
<cyphermox> but I can definitely attest to how much it's a pain to make the original pairing and find an extra keyboard and mouse :)
<Laney> amen
<Laney> I'm adding some more 2to3 stuff and then I'll push it up
<Laney> you can sit on it and smush your changes on top when you get a chance
<cyphermox> Laney: feel free to upload your changes, I'll make another revision after thinking about it some more
<Laney> well i need sponsoring anyway
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> then I'll sponsor it whenever it's ready
<Laney> righto
<Laney> give me a few mins
<cyphermox> sure, np
<Laney> cyphermox: there you go, you should have mail
<Laney> bbl
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> Laney: what were the changes you made on top of the python3 patch for bluez?
<Laney> cyphermox: I guess the tests saw some changes in the new upstream; it was catching some remaining unconverted stuff
<Laney> I meant to do it in a separate commit but forgot
<cyphermox> oh ok, cool :)
<cyphermox> I was asking because I couldn't see the one thing that barry mentioned that we can't work without -- raw_input() -> input() otherwise I guess it would crash
<cyphermox> I fixed it here, I'll build and test and upload
<Laney> oh, I did do that, hang on
<cyphermox> oops
<Laney> ok
<Laney> no worries :-)
<cyphermox> used dch -at, you still get the credit ;)
 * cyphermox thinks about upgrading to quantal tomorrow
<jbicha_> cyphermox: beware bug 992745 then
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 992745 in libxfont "X doesn't load in Quantal, downgrading libxfont1 to Precise version fixes it" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992745
<cyphermox> ahahah
<cyphermox> jbicha_: awesome, thanks!
<jbicha_> the Internet tells me we're getting rid of X anyway :)
<cyphermox> yeah, who needs X. Menus are for restaurants!
<cyphermox> fortunately, one of the first things I will be working on will be  the CLI interface for NM, don't need X for that... but I'll just set up pinning now so that I don't have to worry about it when I run the upgrade
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: lol @ "Menus are for restaurants" :)
<dupondje> Quantal is open tomorrow ? :)
<dupondje> mmm :D
<dupondje> tempting :)
<dobey> quantal is already open
<Laney> wide open
<dupondje> mmm open :)
<cyphermox> dupondje: just waiting until tomorrow because I took the day off for other reasons, so I'll have time to deal with the breakage now
<MrChrisDruif> Hai everyone
<MrChrisDruif> jbicha_ referred me to this channel
<MrChrisDruif> desrt; I heard you like GNOME Shell as well?
<MrChrisDruif> jbicha_; do you happen to know the timezone of desrt ?
<desrt> MrChrisDruif: just got off of a plane, so now it's -7
<jbicha_> MrChrisDruif: I'm sure he'll be around in a bit, he lives in Toronto but I'm not convinced he sleeps :)
 * desrt waits for his bags while distchecking glib :)
<MrChrisDruif> And *naturally* you check into irc while you wait ^_^
<jbicha_> desrt: are you in Oakland?
<desrt> SFO presently
<desrt> i'll be getting on the BART shortly, though, assuming my bags are here
<desrt> MrChrisDruif: i'm late for a glib release and i did most of the work on the plane.  i want to get the upload done ASAP
<desrt> jbicha_: you coming next week?
<jbicha_> desrt: two glib releases in one day?
<desrt> jbicha_: stable and unstable
<jbicha_> desrt: I'll get in Wednesday night, a bit late to the party but it'll still be fun!
<desrt> wednesday tomorrow or 8 days from now?
<jbicha_> 8 days
<desrt> ya.  a bit late :)
<MrChrisDruif> Well, will be a few days better then I will do this uds
<MrChrisDruif> So it's around 5:22 where you are desrt ?
<MrChrisDruif> pm*
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-02
<mterry> Hey, desktop folks, do ya'll use pbuilder or sbuild?
<RAOF> sbuild
<TheMuso`> sbuild
<TheMuso`> Thanks to RAOF, sbuild + tmpfs in RAM for most packages == bliss.
<RAOF> It's amazing how much faster disc access is when you're not accessing the disc :)
<TheMuso`> I.e a tmpfs is used as an overlay, so installing packages is faaaaaaast. Doesn't impact building much, its mostly to get the chroot set up quickly.
<TheMuso`> Hell yeah.
<bryceh> mterry, pbuilder.  old timer here.
<mterry> bryceh, you and me both apparently
<mterry> Was just wondering if I should bother learn sbuild
<mterry> I have this set of pbuilder helper scripts that I'm pretty mental-muscle-invested in
<TheMuso`> mterry: How do they help you exactly?
<mbiebl> TheMuso`: I found eatmydata to be a great alternative to using a tmpfs
<RAOF> That closes the performance delta significantly, yeah.
<TheMuso`> mbiebl: Yeaht athw rks too, but I have the RAM to throw at tmpfs building so...
 * TheMuso` pats thinkpad which was purchased with 40% off, so managed to get it maxed out and still pay under $2K AUD.
<mbiebl> TheMuso`: yeah, I have "only" 4 GB of RAM...
<mterry> TheMuso`, uh I find normal pbuilder to be quite verbose on the command line.  So I have scripts that do things like "build" or "apt-get source" or "update" for various pbuilder chroots
<mterry> TheMuso`, the PES group uses them too, actually
<RAOF> mterry: Nice thing about sbuild?  âsudo schroot --all-source-chroots -u root -- apt-get --no-install-recommends --assume-yes dist-upgradeâ
<TheMuso`> mterry: Right, updating several chroots at once does require a script agreed, but for fetching a source package from a release other than the one you are in, a simple "schroot -c $dist -- apt-get source packagename" works just as easily.
<TheMuso`> RAOF: oh wow, thats even better. :)
<RAOF> TheMuso`: That's not strictly speaking true; schroot has the --all-source-chroots option which'll apply your command in all your chroots!
 * TheMuso` has not read the schroot manpage nearly enough it seems. :)
<TheMuso`> Yeah just saw your reply.
<bryceh> meh
<bryceh>   1 0-23/2  *   *   *    update_pbuilder.cron
<mterry> Such long commands!  :)
<TheMuso`> Oh sbuild also dumps a build log in the current directory without you needing to specify any arguments.
<RAOF> I also like that I have a single chroot for $distro-$arch, and have 4 different configs for it - {standard, build-against-previous-builds}-{standard, tmpfs}
<TheMuso`> Anyway, to each their own.
<mterry> The PES guys have suggested I make my scripts more widely public, but not sure how much interest there is, if sbuild is viewed as the way forward?
 * mterry will have to sit down and learn it at Uds
<bryceh> yeah
<TheMuso`> I don't think either will die, its a matter of personal preference and what you are used to.
<RAOF> I don't think there's anything wrong with pbuilder
<TheMuso`> Me neither.
<bryceh> TheMuso`, well it'd be nice if there was Just One Way To Fucking Do It
<lifeless> we use sbuild in LP, though its a bit mangled
<RAOF> Although sbuild, building on schroot, will probably end up winning; it's got more sensible ways of doing things.
<TheMuso`> Its open source. There is almost always more than one way to skin a cat.
<bryceh> but then I guess we'd all lose geek creds if we were all doing it the same way
<lifeless> so sbuild for anyone targeting Ubuntu is a good idea
<RAOF> I've not used pbuilder for a while, but when I *last* used it, sbuild was faster too (at the obvious cost of space) as it didn't need to unpack the chroot.
<RAOF> For fast builds, the pbuilder setup/teardown was a substantial overhead.
<bryceh> RAOF, I'd say that's still true
<bryceh> guess I've generally adapted my workflow around that.  e.g. "go get a coffee"
<bryceh> mmm coffee
<RAOF> That reminds me: my espresso machine will have achieved operating pressure.  Let the pressurised steam be forced through ground coffee!
<TheMuso`> The joy of tmpfs building is if its a small package, and most of what I maintain are small in terms of build time, no sooner do I start it off and do something else, than its done building.
<jbicha_> I use sbuild, but my lintian has been broken with it for 2 months bug 940410
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 940410 in sbuild "lintian doesn't work as of sbuild 0.62.6-1ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940410
<RAOF> jbicha_: Huh?  Works for me?
<jbicha_> here's a little more info: http://paste.ubuntu.com/961379/
<jbicha_> I just did a clean install this week too so there shouldn't really be anything non-standard with the system configs
<RAOF> Hmmm.
<RAOF> That makes it look like your build area's not mounted when lintian gets called.
<bryceh> RAOF, do you think it's more beneficial that you and I build things the same way, or different ways?
<jbicha_> here's a recent full build log http://paste.ubuntu.com/961385/
<RAOF> bryceh: Honestly I don't think it matters.  The build environment is so rarely an issue.
<TheMuso`> I think I ended up looking at sbuild because a package that I was working on didn't build properly on the buildds due to tomeouts, so I wanted to try and reproduce locally if possible. Anyway, I've stuck with it since.
<TheMuso`> timeouts even
<jbicha_> sbuild seemed simpler to set up, mostly http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild and then enabling universe in sources.list
<RAOF> They're both pretty trivial to set up, especially with pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<RAOF> jbicha_: It seems from your setup that you don't have an explicit build output directory set?
<RAOF> I *do* have an explicit output directory (so I can build packages against it); maybe that'd avoid whatever broken codepath you're hitting?
<jbicha_> RAOF: this upload broke lintian in sbuild for me: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/93727213/sbuild_0.62.6-1ubuntu1_0.62.6-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<RAOF> jbicha_: Hm.  It may well *not* have your .changes file there, then.
<psusi> what program/package provides "user accounts" in system settings, or better yet, how do you figure out what program provides a given system settings applet?
<jbicha_> psusi: gnome-control-center provides all of the default applets (ie those you would see on any non-Ubuntu-derived distro)
<psusi> jbicha_, there seems to be a more functional user management tool in the gnome-system-tools package... the default user management tool used to provide the ability to add/remove users to specific groups, but now it only has options for regular user or administrator... I'm trying to figure out what the inferior component is
<jbicha_> inferior's a bit dramatic
<psusi> actually, iirc, it used to list specific abilities that were tied to certain group memberships
<psusi> like the ability to mount external media, access sound devices, etc
<jbicha_> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/user-accounts is the new GNOME3 default
<RAOF> Yeah, but most of those were actually lies.
<psusi> RAOF, howso?
<RAOF> I don't think anything actually checed those groups anymore; not after ConsoleKit
<RAOF> So you could tick or untick those boxes, but it wouldn't change the system behaviour in the ways you expected.
<psusi> ahhh
<psusi> so instead of updating the tool to configure ConsoleKit settings, the functionality was just removed?
<jbicha_> psusi: what's your use case? I think standard/administrator is far more useful than the old complicated dialog
<RAOF> I'm not sure ConsoleKit actually *has* any of those settings, and I don't think systemd does.
<psusi> jbicha_, depends... iirc, it used to have standard/administrator too, but if you wanted more fine grained control, it was there
<jbicha_> I think real sysadmins would use visudo if they need to have more control over that or something similar
<jbicha_> home users don't need the complexity
<psusi> RAOF, I thought that was one of the driving functions of CK?  but it seems the decisions of say, whether people can auto mount external media and whether they have to authenticate to do so is just burried in distribution provided rules files now instead of being configurable in the gui
<RAOF> psusi: I was under the impression that it was basically âare you at a local console?â
<jbicha_> or sysadmins could use policykit rules
<psusi> sure, but it seems a loss of functionality to go from being able to tweak those rules with the gui to having to understand a complex system and edit config files by hand
<psusi> group policy editor seems to be rather popular on windows to do this sort of thing even though you always could edit the registry by hand
<psusi> it is nice that now the default policy can be set to "are you on a local console" instead of assigning static group memberships, but changing that default policy seems out of reach for "mere mortals"
<jbicha_> that's not really the same thing at all
<jbicha_> sysadmins don't edit the Windows registry by hand
<psusi> yea, because they have GPO
<psusi> at any rate, how can one figure out which program is responsible for a given system settings applet?
<jbicha_> psusi: the default ones are http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels
<psusi> jbicha_, that doesn't really answer the question... is there a way to figure out which executable implements a given one, other than obviously reading through the source code for all of them?
<jbicha_> for the others you could find their .desktop in /usr/share/applications and run dpkg -S nameof.desktop
<TheMuso`> Hrm, I really think Unity should have the option of showing network mounted filesystem in the launcher, sure maybe not by default, but have the option at least.
<jbicha_> that git list is helpful though, run gnome-control-center info to get the Details panel for instance, gnome-control-center user-accounts, etc.
<TheMuso`> I often mount network filesystems in GNOME, and have to dig up the computer window just to unmount them again.
<psusi> hrm... so the control panel just shows applications with a .desktop file registering them in the X-GNOME-Settings panel?
<TheMuso`> I often mount network filesystems in GNOME, and have to dig up the computer window just to unmount them again.~/c~
<TheMuso`> grrr
<jbicha_> well the app has to be compiled against gnome-control-center but yeah, something like that
<psusi> so they are like a shared lib that runs in the context of gnome-control-center?
<RAOF> Yes
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso`> Morning pitti.
<pitti> RAOF: do you have some time for an SRU round?
<pitti> RAOF: we have a kernel bumping ABI now, and I'd like to try whether overriding on the +queue page works
<pitti> if not, I can fix the overrides on cocoplum
<pitti> RAOF: I can look at the "normal" SRUs now, perhaps you can do the kernel ones?
<RAOF> Ok.
<RAOF> There's no difference in the procedure for the various arm kernels, is there.
<pitti> RAOF: indeed, thehre is not
<pitti> RAOF: ah, there are again some kernels which don't go to -security?
<pitti> ah, nevermind, these are copies to -proposed
<RAOF> Yup.  Everything's going to proposed.
<RAOF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kernel-sru-workflow/promote-to-proposed/+bug/987281 has a prepare-meta task, but no linux-meta-ti-omap4 shows up as needing to be copied on pending-srus.  I presume this is because there's an existing -meta with the same abi in proposed already.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 987281 in linux "linux: 2.6.38-15.59 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<RAOF> No, that's the wrong one!
<RAOF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kernel-sru-workflow/promote-to-proposed/+bug/985999 is the one I was talking about.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 985999 in linux-ti-omap4 "linux-ti-omap4: 3.0.0-1209.21 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<pitti> RAOF: right
 * pitti OTP, will take a bit
<RAOF> Hm.  I may have run into a bug in copy-proposed-kernel
<RAOF> Ahem.  No, PEBCAK
<mlankhorst> morning :)
 * TheMuso` feels squeemish after looking at brltty's cross-platform design.
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<pitti> RAOF: ah, you copied the natty-backports kernel? did the main promotion on +queue work?
<pitti> RAOF: ah, apparently not: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/amd64/linux-image-2.6.38-15-server/2.6.38-15.59~lucid1
<pitti> RAOF: ah, the bot reopened bug 990208
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 990208 in linux-lts-backport-natty "linux-lts-backport-natty: 2.6.38-15.59~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990208
<RAOF> pitti: Everything *looked* good from the queue page.
<pitti> RAOF: I filed that as bug 993120
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 993120 in launchpad "Copy from PPA with binaries evades NEW and puts new packages into universe" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993120
<Sweetshark> pitti: have a minute?
<Sweetshark> (now or later)
<pitti> Sweetshark: sure, what's up? (debugging something ATM, but we can talk in parallel)
<chrisccoulson> good morning pitti, Sweetshark
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: are you already in Oakland?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - not yet, are you? i arrive on saturday
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, me too
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just seemed rather late to say "good morning"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i had to look after my daughter for a bit this morning
<pogromca>  does anybody know why phpstorm on dualscreen nvidia twin view config, shows code completion box on wrong screen?
<Sweetshark> so what to do with a bug that is fixed in -proposed, but the original reporter doesnt have the bug scenario anymore? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/818761/comments/10
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 818761 in libreoffice "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in XkbUseExtension()" [Medium,Fix committed]
<pitti> Sweetshark: as long as the other bugs are verified, and we are sufficiently convinced that it doesn't regress, it's fine
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, backported and reviewed upstream -- mostly zombie code removal.
<Sweetshark> pitti: uploading 3.5.3 to chinstrap, (also still building locally) ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: cool; did you build with -v to include the two previous -proposed changelogs?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes
<pitti> cyphermox: can I leave the wireless-tools merge to you? I touched it last for a no-change rebuild, but I think you are much more qualified for this
<Sweetshark> foolish me started an release build on battery power :(
<ogra_> time for bigger batteries :)
 * Sweetshark needs nucular batteries ...
 * ogra_ wondres what the TSA would say about that :)
<Sweetshark> The "I am a LibreOffice maintainer"-excuse got me pretty far up until now ...
<pitti> backup for plane engines running out of Kerosin?
<chrisccoulson> wtf, we have an explosion in firefox crashes in all releases, with traces that all have flash running in the main process :/
<pitti> reminds me of those Enterprise episodes "LaForge, re-route life support energy to the warp coils"
<pitti> "... and the energy for that green emergency exit light, too!"
<ogra_> heh
<Sweetshark> pitti: ETA for the local build to finish: 14:30UTC, prepare to upload by then please (I really want to blog about a same day release)
<pitti> Sweetshark: I can upload it now, and then just press the accept button on the -proposed queue
<Sweetshark> pitti: that would be great!
<pitti> Sweetshark: any chance you could fix the "lp#1234" to "LP: #1234" so that they get picked up by the changelog scanner, call for testing, and pending-sru.html?
<pitti> Sweetshark: if these are not that important, we at least have one new bug to report results to
<xclaesse> any reason valadoc  version is 0.2+git20110728-2 and not 0.3.2 as in debian ?
<xclaesse> folks needs 0.3 to generate its doc
<pitti> the source is 0.3.2, but apparently it didn't build
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valadoc/0.3.2~git20120227-1
<xclaesse> I would love having -doc packages for folks
<xclaesse> it needs build with --enable-docs
<pitti> so, it's built on i386/amd64, still needs building on the other arches
<ricotz> xclaesse, pitti, the vala-team ppa contains a build
<xclaesse> I guess it's totally too late for precise?
<pitti> yes, this is quantal
<xclaesse> what are the backport policy? it will just not happen?
<pitti> xclaesse: for precise-backports its' rather easy to do
<pitti> for a stable update, there needs to be proof that it doesn't break any of the existing packages
<dobey> pitti: when will quantal daily ISOs start building?
<ogra_> dobey, usually around alpha1 time
<dobey> oh
<ogra_> (should be noted on the release schedule)
<dobey> ogra_: alpha1 is there, but doesn't say anything about images
<dobey> anyway
<ogra_> well, we start building them shortly before A1
<dobey> what's the best way to get a quantal vm before that?
<pitti> dobey: still too early right now, archive is pretty shaky due to the autosyncs, merges, etc.
<pitti> dobey: install precise, and dist-upgrade
<ogra_> debootstrap and a chroot i would say
<pitti> (... carefully)
<ogra_> or what pitti said
<xclaesse> pitti, ok so quantal, can folks be build with --enable-docs ?
<xclaesse> please
<pitti> yes, of course you should debootstrap, or at least install into a VM; don't try it on real iron just yet :)
 * xclaesse copies quantal packages into my ppa for backports :)
<pitti> xclaesse: sure
<ricotz> xclaesse, it might not work since folks requires vala 0.16 and the quantal vala-doc package doesnt build the 0.16 driver
<ricotz> the valadoc package needs to get a libvala-0.16-dev b-d for that
<dobey> ricotz: well, quantal should have 0.18 as the 'default' vala no?
<ricotz> probably, but valadoc treats all libvala versions separately
<dobey> ah
<xclaesse> ricotz, any reason quantal package does not build for vala 0.16 then?
<ricotz> i havent tested it, but it might not work in the current state
<ricotz> xclaesse, no, it just misses the b-d
<xclaesse> I though everything was 0.16 in precise already
<ricotz> xclaesse, please try it first
<ricotz> xclaesse, if it isnt working try the valadoc package in vala-team ppa
<pitti> Sweetshark: can you please copy libreoffice_3.5.3.orig-src.tar.gz to chinstrap, too?
<cyphermox> pitti: yes, I'll look at it this afternoon
<cyphermox> (re: wireless-tools merge)
<pitti> cyphermox: good morning
<pitti> cyphermox: thanks
<cyphermox> good morning -- sorry, in a UOW session right now, and technically off today
<Sweetshark> pitti: that sleazy tarball is still .tar.gz not tar.xz, dodging my glob.
<Sweetshark> uploading ...
<Sweetshark> ... done
<pitti> no, I'm not envious of your upload bandwith ... no I'm not envious -- I am really not!!
<Sweetshark> pitti: as for the lp# reference: we backported that fix already to an earlier release, so it is actually good that they are not firing up any patternmatching.
<Sweetshark> pitti: local build finished -- go for it.
<pitti> Sweetshark: yay, will do
 * pitti bbl
 * pitti waves good night
<JohnLea> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1Bln1VInMg4QvrZsyQpO6XLMWCCQ2UzAkYTwtxOnnczg/edit
<JohnLea> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1Bln1VInMg4QvrZsyQpO6XLMWCCQ2UzAkYTwtxOnnczg/edit
<TonyP> Hi Guys, can you help me with some problems I am having.  These may be because my update to 12.04 was interrupted when my desktop PC crashed.  I recovered from that and have a pretty good 12.04 (at least it doesn't crash frequently like 11.10 did).  One problem is that the login screen doesn't use my wallpaper like it should do.  The other problem is that occasionally I lose the window decoration until I reboot.
<desrt> TonyP: 1) sounds like a well-known issue if you're not using one of the system-provided wallpapers
<desrt> TonyP: 2) sounds like a compiz bug
<TonyP> 1) True, I'm using my own picture.  But I have a netbook that is OK with that.  Does it depend on screen resolution or geometry?
<TonyP> 2) Should I re-install compiz?  It might have been corrupted by the upgrade crash.  If yes, what is the package called.  Just compiz?
<sil2100> TonyP: presumably a reinstall of compiz-gnome woould suffice
<sil2100> TonyP: but you can also reinstall compiz too
<sil2100> TonyP: but I'm not sure if that would help - if it won't, it would be nice if you could fill out a apport bug on compiz launchpad
<sil2100> TonyP: if you loose decorations, you can always restart them by using, for instance: gtk-window-decorator --replace &
<TonyP> Thanks.  If necessary, I'll post a bug.
<sil2100> TonyP: thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-03
<RAOF> jcastro: You need to stop teasing G+ with blank Electronic Arts sessions :)
<RAOF> Wooo!  ddebs support into soyuz?  Yes please!
<cyphermox> RAOF: cool
<ajmitch> RAOF: it wasn't just that jcastro taunting us
<cyphermox> yay, I can now select text in email again! :D
<RAOF> Funky!
<cyphermox> indeed.
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: oh! I want some of that! :P
<mdeslaur> most annoying bug ever :)
<cyphermox> yup yup
<cyphermox> there's a patch on the upstream bug; I'll upload to quantal in a minute, then start shepherding it through the SRU process
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<xclaesse> oh, finally understood why all icones appear in duplicate in gnome-shell's overview, need to disable "Debian" directory from alacarte (the menu editor tool)
<xclaesse> can't that be done by default in ubuntu please?
<xclaesse> according to what I see by googling, that happens for unity as well...
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, there is no "Debian" directory by default
<chrisccoulson> at least, i don't have one here....
<xclaesse> what pulled it then?
<xclaesse> is menu-xdg installed by default?
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, no, it's not installed by default
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, did you install the "gnome" meta package? it seems that recommends menu-xdg for some very strange reason
<xclaesse> right, that's it
<xclaesse> can it be removed from deps if it provides nothing useful, please?
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, i guess so. did you report a bug?
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, I fell stupid, but I've already looked many times, but launchpad does not seems to have a "I WANT TO REPORT A BUG" button
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome3/. it's on the RHS for me
<xclaesse> how wrong can it be that "Report a bug" link goes to a page not telling how to do it
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, oh, you get redirected, don't you?
<xclaesse> ohh, so "Report a bug" is useful only if you go to the package page
<xclaesse> waw
<xclaesse> seriously...
<Laney> you're supposed to use ubuntu-bug, not the launchpad web interface
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's true, although it probably doesn't make that much difference in this case :)
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome3/+bug/993844
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 993844 in meta-gnome3 "drop menu-xdg dependency" [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> but for firefox, I enforce that quite vigorously now, and just close bugs that are reported via the launchpad interface ;)
<Laney> well, it does in that the web interface is deliberately making it difficult
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, thanks
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, speaking about bugs when installing that meta-package: grub displays a "debian" image after installing gnome-desktop-environment
<Laney> those are really debian metapackages
<Laney> perhaps we should think about getting them out of ubuntu
<xclaesse> Laney, ubuntu needs at least a package i-want-the-real-gnome-desktop
<Laney> yes
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it does seem like this is the sort of thing that shouldn't be based on debian
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure we used to carry quite a large delta for the gnome2 metapackages
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, I guess canonical does zero testing of gnome env now? :/
<chrisccoulson> xclaesse, well, i don't. but i can't speak for my other colleagues :)
<micahg> why not just collaborate more with Debian to reduce the delata
<micahg> *delta
<Laney> i think it's reasonable to expect differences here
<Laney> perhaps a normal delta would be alright though
<micahg> and things like different images can be kept in Debian
<xclaesse> any idea what package provides grub's theme?
<mlankhorst> morning
<xclaesse> chrisccoulson, reported that one as well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome3/+bug/993865
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 993865 in meta-gnome3 "desktop-base changes grub's theme to debian" [Undecided,New]
<davidcalle> pitti, ping
<pitti> hello davidcalle
<davidcalle> pitti, how are you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! just made some progress on debugging a bug I've chased for a week now
<davidcalle> pitti, I would need your advice on a potential sru. There is a localization bug in the Video lens ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/993002 ), that has been fixed yesterday with the help of experimented ln18 people from #ubuntu-translators. Do you think it would qualified as an sru? Or backport?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 993002 in unity "Unity video lens doesn't work when installing in Cuba country" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, I happened to have noticed my grub had the debian theme, but I didn't know the source
<pitti> davidcalle: that's not a good backport, it shoudl be an SRU
<pitti> davidcalle: backports is for new versions, SRUs are for bug fixes
<davidcalle> pitti, ok
<davidcalle> pitti, I'll modify the report to be sru compliant, and assign ubuntu-sru. Anything else I need to do?
<pitti> davidcalle: you need to upload a fix to precise-proposed
<pitti> or get it uploaded through your sponsor
<davidcalle> pitti, sure, I was talking about the administrative side of things :) Thanks a lot.
<pitti> davidcalle: no, that's pretty much it -- have a bug, link to it in changelog, upload it
<pitti> we try to make it as easy as possible
<pitti> and make sure that the bug has reproduction steps
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi :), could you push your firefox 13b2 package to quantal too?
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, not when it doesn't build
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, so you already know it doesnt build?
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah
<ricotz> i see :\
<Sweetshark> ricotz: ping?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, pong
<Sweetshark> ricotz: did you do any work on 3.5.3 backporting or are you planning to?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, lucid and oneiric are currently building
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building
<Sweetshark> ricotz: ah, great! I will reply to http://sweetshark.livejournal.com/11319.html?view=16695#t16695 quoting your awesomeness then ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, will do natty too later today
<ricotz> Sweetshark, but lucid amd64 might fail
<Sweetshark> ricotz: ppa fs size again?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, ah, sorry, i considered your precise ppa upload as testbuild which can be dropped if it is published in precise
<ricotz> Sweetshark, yeah, maybe the builder is blacklisted but the lucid build is smaller
<ricotz> the oneiric builds should be fine
<Sweetshark> ricotz: oh, no, did you just delete the 3.5.3 precise upload?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i did :\, this morning
<Sweetshark> ricotz: arrgh, that one is published in >100 websites as here you can update easily!
<Sweetshark> *grmble*
<ricotz> let me try something
<Sweetshark> pitti: is there a way to maybe copy the 3.5.3 precise-proposed package over to the libreoffice ppa?
<pitti> Sweetshark: yes, can do that
<pitti> Sweetshark: what's the URL of the PPA?
<Sweetshark> pitti: please do for major shitstorm avoidance.
<Sweetshark> pitti: ppa:libreoffice/ppa
<ricotz> pitti, doing it already
<pitti> ricotz: oh, you can do that from the web uI?
<ricotz> yes, if it doesnt timeout :\
<ricotz> pitti, please go ahead if you like
<Sweetshark> (as a sideeffect we will have all l10n in the ppa then and not only 12 langs, which is kinda nice).
<pitti> Sweetshark: to clarify, you mean source+binaries, to the PPA for "precise"?
<ricotz> pitti, ah it worked
<pitti> 2012-05-03 12:40:19 ERROR   libreoffice 1:3.5.3-0ubuntu1 in precise (same version has unpublished binaries in the destination archive for Precise, please wait for them to be published before copying)
<pitti> I suppose ricotz beat me to it
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes
<pitti> yep, there it is
 * ricotz feels better now
<Sweetshark> oh, and we have ppc additionally there, also nice.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, yeah, not sure if ppc really get published
<Sweetshark> pitti: "all builds were successfull, but have not yet been published" <- does that mean amd64/i386 too?
<pitti> I hope ricotz copied the binaries, too
<ricotz> Sweetshark, it takes some time
<ricotz> the publishing process, i mean
<ricotz> pitti, i did
<Sweetshark> ricotz: please dont delete stuff from me in that ppa without pinging me first. If I do testbuilds I do them locally or in one of my really personal ppas.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, ok
<ricotz> g2g, bye
<cyphermox> pitti: wireless-tools done.
<pitti> cyphermox: cool, thanks
<pitti> good night everyone!
<thomaspr> pitti just one question
<seb128> hey
<mlankhorst> heya
<dobey> chrisccoulson: ooh. are we going to start shipping firefox with gstreamer backend now? :)
<bob__> when trying to test 12.04 from cd no launcher, whats up?
<dobey> bob__: a bug maybe? you should file it :)
<bob__> where is that done at?
<micahg> dobey: it would only be possible in oneiric and later
<dobey> micahg: that's fine by me
<dobey> bob__: you can run "ubuntu-bug unity" on the live cd, or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/unity/+filebug
<dobey> bob__: the former is better, as it will collect useful information about your hardware
<micahg> dobey: the second link will redirect to a help page for people who are non members of bug control
<bob__> how does one get to the terminal to do that?
<ogra_> ctrl-alt-T
<bob__> k thanks
<beyler> chromium http://i46.tinypic.com/2cp9u28.png  What is the reason it 12.04 xubuntu
<micahg> beyler: try #xubuntu
<beyler> micahg: does not respond to anybody out there
<micahg> then try #ubuntu
<beyler> micahg: k
<robert_ancell2> names
<robert_ancell2> \
<robert_ancell2> RAOF: You gone broke my quantal desktop
<seb128> robert_ancell2, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell2, how are you?
<robert_ancell2> seb128: good, but stuck in text mode
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell2: downgrade libxfont to 1:1.4.4-1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfont/+bug/992745
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 992745 in libxfont "X doesn't load in Quantal, downgrading libxfont1 to Precise version fixes it : could not open default font 'fixed'" [Critical,Fix committed]
<seb128> robert_ancell2, quantal? not scared ;-)
<Sarvatt> it just got uploaded to debian to be synced to quantal an hour or so ago
<robert_ancell2> Sarvatt: ah, that's what I'm looking for
<robert_ancell2> Sarvatt: Is there any easy way to do the downgrade?  (no web browser to find the link)
<robert_ancell2> seb128: precise was working too well :)
<seb128> robert_ancell2, except that lightdm forces me to reboot every second login :p
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell2: i386 or amd64?
<seb128> robert_ancell2, mterry got a fix btw
<robert_ancell2> Sarvatt: amd64
<robert_ancell2> seb128, well that sounds fun - which bug is that one?
<seb128> robert_ancell2, add a precise source and sudo apt-get install libxfont1/precise ?
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell2: wget http://goo.gl/drqCo :)
<mterry> robert_ancell2, yeeah was just mailing you
<robert_ancell2> Sarvatt: easy, cheers
<mterry> robert_ancell2, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity-greeter/986967/+merge/104622
<seb128> robert_ancell2, the "alpha never reachs 1 and so the greeter doesn't transition"
<mterry> robert_ancell2, and your idea to move to Year.Month versioning seems good
<robert_ancell2> Sarvatt: You sent me the link for 1.4.5-1 instead of 1.4.4-1
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell2: shoot, sorry!
<robert_ancell2> mterry: cool
<robert_ancell2> mterry: we just need to convince the unity team to do the same
<Sarvatt> robert_ancell2: http://goo.gl/PYdyf
<Sarvatt> thats libxfont1_1.4.4-1_amd64.deb
<robert_ancell2> yay, back to graphics!
<seb128> Sarvatt, what happened to "if you break Ubuntu you fix or revert it"? ;-)
<Sarvatt> seb128: who broke ubuntu? (i cant upload anything either) :P
<Sarvatt> libxfont (1:1.4.5-2) unstable; urgency=low
<Sarvatt>  .
<Sarvatt>  * Ease sync for Ubuntu: strip -Bsymbolic-functions from LDFLAGS
<Sarvatt>    (LP: #992745).
<Sarvatt> some toolchain change and an auto sync broke it
<seb128> toolchain didn't change recently I think
<seb128> oh, a robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think the assumption that we can just autolayer Ubuntu on top of Debian and everything will magically work broke it
<Sarvatt> seb128: is there some way a core-dev can trigger a sync without filling a bug? it was uploaded to debian about an hour ago and might be able to be synced now
<Sarvatt> still too new to requestsync it, been trying
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, that's because we have an incompatible toolchain with them, which is a bit of an issue
<stgraber> Sarvatt: syncpackage -d sid -r quantal <package>
<seb128> Sarvatt, it can't be officially synced if not published I think
<stgraber> Sarvatt: though LP usually needs much more than an hour to notice the new package in Debian
<seb128> i.e the tools don't look to incoming
<seb128> debian publisher doesn't run as often that the Debian one, like twice a day
<seb128> robert_ancell, so yeah, my lightdm issue was the "logging in..." greeter stuff
<seb128> robert_ancell, should we wait for other fixes to SRU or just get one for that one?
<robert_ancell> seb128, is it very widespread?  I'm surprised it's only shown post release
<robert_ancell> I'd say release immediately
<seb128> robert_ancell, mterry: the bug is annoying enough that I would prefer to not wait post UDS to SRU it
<seb128> robert_ancell, dunno, we got a few duplicates and a few people mentioning it on IRC, and I and pitti did hit it
<mterry> agreed
<seb128> robert_ancell, i.e that's enough people around that I guess that lot of users will hit it, though for some reason it doesn't happen on first login and not everybody user multiple users or log out and in again
<seb128> well anyway
<seb128> mterry, please SRU it, thanks ;-)
<seb128> I can verify the SRU once it's in
<mterry> robert_ancell, did you have anything else you wanted to squeeze into this SRU?
<robert_ancell> mterry, no
<mterry> robert_ancell, OK, will package it up
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw you don't have any idea about the multimonitor greeter handling not working until you connect,disconnect a monitor?
<dobey> robert_ancell: squeeze some love into it.
<robert_ancell> dobey, creepy
<seb128> robert_ancell, i.e it goes on mirror mode on boot
<dobey> heh
<seb128> robert_ancell, if that's an easy fix it would be nice to sneak that in as well, multimonitor is cool when it works ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, it probably needs an Xpert to look at that one.  I know mirror mode is the default, though I don't know why g-s-d doesn't override that when it starts
<robert_ancell> perhaps we have to kick g-s-d?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I though we didn't enable xrandr in unity-greeter?
<seb128> oh, no, it's in the enabled list
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
<seb128> so yeah, maybe that's the issue
<mterry> jasoncwarner_, ping, you around?
<mterry> jasoncwarner_, want you to try a fix for the log in issue
<mterry> jasoncwarner_, enable http://launchpad.net/~mterry/+archive/ppa2 and let me know
<mterry> seb128, fyi, I'm waiting on user responses before uploading the SRU
<seb128> mterry, screw users!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mterry, what you mean there is that you don't trust me right?
<kenvandine> mterry, don't answer that... it's a trap :)
<mterry> I suspect they are just amd64 users (forgot that hadn't built yet when I sent them there)
<seb128> mterry, I did comment pointing that a bit earlier
<mterry> yup, want to see what they say
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I was wondering why you were up so early.  But you're now all the way over *there*, aren't you!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yep
<TheMuso> lol
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-04
 * TheMuso trawls through the US schedule.
<TheMuso> UDS
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell: I just got it again, had to restart lightdm three times; and that was on very first login attempt right after fresh boot
<robert_ancell> pitti, after mterrys update?
<pitti> robert_ancell: for a while now already; I first noticed it last week
<robert_ancell> pitti, he made a fix today for it
<pitti> oh? Nothing on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+changelog yet
<pitti> perhaps still sitting in unapproved
<pitti> can't see it on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1
<robert_ancell> pitti, it's a u-g bug
<mterry> pitti, I have it in a PPA for testing
<pitti> ah
<mterry> pitti, ppa:mterry/ppa2
<mterry> pitti, only i386 is built
<robert_ancell> mterry, still?
<robert_ancell> slooow builders
<mterry> pitti, but let me know if it fixes it for you!  I've had positive feedback so far and was going to SRU tonight
<pitti> I can't reproduce it at will, but get it quite often
<pitti> mterry: sweet!
<pitti> mterry: bumped build score; now 5 h -> 1 min :)
<mterry> :)
 * RAOF looks up which particular login issue it is, and whether it's the one he's suddenly started seeing.
<pitti> RAOF: after entering your password it hangs at "authenticating.."
<pitti> (the string might be different in actual English)
<RAOF> Yeah, that sounds like it.  Except it says "logging in..." for me.
<pitti> "sudo stop lightdm" doesn't even seem to help, I need sudo pkill -u lightdm
<pitti> and then restarting
<pitti> RAOF: yeah, that's it
<RAOF> Man, how long does it take for launchpad to scrape sid for new packages?  Ah, there it goes.
 * TheMuso hasn't seen that bug here... yet
<RAOF> If it's the bug I'm seeing then I think it's timing-related; I only see it on the super-fast-ssd ivybridge, not on the fast-ssd sandybridge :)
<TheMuso> ah.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> it's a Chris!
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti. how are you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks!
<pitti> apport mostly works with Python 3 now
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, you're flying tomorrow aren't you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, I will; arriving at SFO at 16:20
<pitti> you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i fly tomorrow too. although, i arrive at 13.25
<chrisccoulson> i still need to pack :)
<pitti> argh, me too
<Sweetshark> pitti: wrt bug 992232. I wondered if it makes sense to have a ppa libreoffice universe and build libreoffice with deps on universe there. e.g. upload a libreoffice version 1:3.5.3-0ubuntu1~universe1 which also builds report-builder. People would still use all their packages from main except the reportbuilder one.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 992232 in libreoffice "no libreoffice-report-builder in precise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992232
<pitti> Sweetshark: that would work, yes; if there is much demand for it
<Sweetshark> pitti: well, I would just do it now, and then could see how many people are actually using it
<Sweetshark> ricotz: by the way that is something you could change for the next backport: reenabling report-builder
<Sweetshark> ricotz: I just created https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-3-5 could you copy your latest 3.5 backports over to it (see http://sweetshark.livejournal.com/10977.html).
<Sweetshark> ricotz: ah wait
<Sweetshark> ricotz: we should do that when the package passed SRUing in precise.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i see, but i think there was a reason to disable report-builder on lucid at least, so maybe possible on oneiric+
<Sweetshark> ricotz: yeah, no sweat -- when people are not complaining it is not too much of an issue anyway likely ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i am not really comfortable to duplicate 3.5.x again already, and the ppa needs at least 7gb
<ricotz> Sweetshark, what is the first 3.6.x release you want to upload to quantal?
<ricotz> ok, i am fine with waiting for someone demanding report-builder first ;)
<Sweetshark> ricotz: I hope to upload a pre-3.6.0 to quantal soonish.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> ricotz: but first I have to rebase and cleanup our diff to debian ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, alright
<ricotz> Sweetshark, so what about deleting the maverick packages?
<Sweetshark> ricotz: i wouldnt mind that. do you have any download stats wrt to maverick hand? I assume them to be very low, but who knows ....
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i pm'ed you with the reason
<ricotz> maverick isnt supported anymore
<ricotz> and we shouldnt encourage people to use it
<Sweetshark> ricotz: right ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, btw, i am not a fan of reducing the languages, i don't think this change should stay
<ricotz> g2g, bye
<Sweetshark> ricotz: me neither, Im already homing in the artillery to change this on UDS ...
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i doesnt affect my upload and i also removed it there
<ricotz> now i am really gone ;)
<pitti> time to stop for today; got up early anyway, and still need to pack for UDS
<pitti> Sweetshark: which flight are you on?
<pitti> Sweetshark: I leave from Frankfurt at 14:00
<pitti> tomorrow
<Sweetshark> nah, I will leave on sunday 10amish from frankfurt
<jbicha> I would have thought you guys were already in Oakland, have a good flight!
<pitti> jbicha: thanks! some desktop guys are there for the product team sprint
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, how are you?
<mterry> seb128, still sick  :(
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> mterry, there is a unity-greeter session, should I tell them you will not come?
<mterry> seb128, I'm talking to achiang now about it, I'll come down
<seb128> ok
<jbicha> mterry: yay! you could share UbuFlu with us ;)
<jbicha> I do hope you're feeling better soon, I was sick in January and it was a pain
<seb128> dobey, hey
<dobey> seb128: hi
<seb128> dobey, how are you?
<dobey> seb128: good, you?
<seb128> dobey, I'm good thanks
<seb128> dobey, I was looking at the top reported issues by whoopsie on precise
<seb128> dobey, ubuntu-installer is on the list
<seb128> ubuntuone-installer
<dobey> yeah i know. i need to talk to mvo about it when i get to uds
<seb128> dobey, what do you need from mvo?
<seb128> seems like a missing depends issue?
<seb128>  "ubuntuone-control-panel-qt" (No such file or directory)
<dobey> no it's a problem with aptdaemon
<seb128> how so?
<dobey> ubuntuone-installer is what installs ubuntuone-control-panel-qt
<dobey> because it's not on the cd, because of space
<dobey> aptdaemon is sending the finished signal, though there was apparently a problem or something, and the package wasn't installed
<seb128> dobey, well, it's ubuntuone-installer which trieds to run ubuntuone-control-panel-qt when it's not installed
<dobey> seb128: it only runs it when it gets the finished signal from aptdaemon
<seb128> oh, are you sure that's the case?
<dobey> yep
<seb128> pitti, hey, still there?
<seb128> dobey, ok
<seb128> slomo_, hey, there?
<mvo> dobey: hm, might it be that there is a check for  exit_status when the signals is deliversed? i.e. if the exit status is success and not some failure mode ?
<dobey> mvo: i don't know. don't really have time to look into it today either. figured it would just be faster to bug you in person next week :)
<mvo> dobey: sounds good
<slomo_> seb128: now i am
<slomo_> seb128: contentless pings are not very useful ;)
<seb128> slomo_, hey, yeah sorry
<seb128> slomo_, I was wondering if you would be interested to ship gstreamer profiles in the debian package
<slomo_> seb128: sure, you mean the ones in bad that i missed?
<seb128> slomo_, context is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/945987
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 945987 in rhythmbox "No Settings are available in "Preferred format", only preset defaults are used" [High,In progress]
<seb128> slomo_, i.e https://launchpadlibrarian.net/102703396/GstLameMP3Enc.prs
<seb128> and one similar for ogg
<seb128> slomo_, currently rhythmbox default encoding quality is pretty poor with no ui way to change it
<slomo_> ah you mean new profiles that are not upstream either? could you file a bug upstream so we can get it fixed there?
<slomo_> but i'm fine with shipping them in the debian package in the meantime too
<seb128> slomo_, ok, is upstream shipping any profile atm? I don't know exactly how that works
<seb128> slomo_, ronoc has been looking at the mp3 quality issue and came with that and a gep file for rhythmbox
<slomo_> yes, i think there's one for x264 and faac at least
<slomo_> seb128: ls /usr/share/gstreamer-0.10/presets shows quite some :)
<seb128> slomo_, ok, so I should open a bug upstream about adding one for mp3?
<seb128> slomo_, thanks
<ronoc> slomo_, seb128 will do
<slomo_> seb128: yes
<slomo_> hmm
<slomo_> there is one
<slomo_> GstLameMP3Enc.prs
<seb128> slomo_, hum, from where?
<seb128> slomo_, no such file on my disk
<seb128> slomo_, http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=GstLameMP3Enc.prs&mode=exactfilename&suite=unstable&arch=any
<seb128> no match
<slomo_> transmageddon: /usr/share/gstreamer-0.10/presets/GstLameMP3Enc.prs
<slomo_> lol
<seb128> "transmageddon" was shipping it in "stable"
<slomo_> ok, yes please file this upstream :)
<seb128> slomo_, will do ;-)
<slomo_> seb128: if you have packaging patches i'll accept them too of course :)
<slomo_> seb128: btw, there are gstreamer1.0 packages on git.debian.org, in case you want to merge them into ubuntu already while they wait in NEW
<seb128> slomo_, ok; thanks
<seb128> need to move, bbl
<mpt> seiflotfy, hi
<mpt> You paged me on Google Docs, but I can't tell when :-)
<seiflotfy> mpt: yeah
<mpt> As you can see, I expanded the "Clear Usage Data" design to include date ranges
<seiflotfy> yep
<seiflotfy> when should we start?
<ronoc> slomo_, sorry did you get my msg above ?
<ronoc> or question above
<slomo_> ronoc: no
<ronoc> slomo_, for that mp3 preset bug on bugzilla, do you want me to assign it as part of the plugins ugly package ?
<ronoc> or component of gstreamer
<slomo_> ronoc: yes please... product gstreamer and component gst-plugins-ugly
<ronoc> grand
<slomo_> ronoc: if you're unsure... just put it somewhere... someone will correct it :)
<ronoc> slomo_, all good
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-05
<TheMuso> UUUUU/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-06
<MrChrisDruif> desrt; if you're around, can you give me a ping?
<lifeless> RAOF: around ?
<lifeless> RAOF: I need a pointer, to whomever deals with touchpads :) - I just realised something that has been bugging me for a while; my middle button has a nearly-2 second delay between clicking and the paste happening
<lifeless> RAOF: I suspect that this is related to the middle-click-then-drag to scroll the window feature
<lifeless> I don't use that feature, I do use paste; how do I remove that feature...
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-29
<TheMuso> jbicha: I was talking to darkxst about this last week... Are you aware that the Ubuntu GNOME images don't boot in the same way that the vanilla Ubuntu images boot? I.e there is no delay and then directly booting into the try/install Ubuntu screen? Is this a deliberate choice on the GNOME remix devs part?
<jbicha> TheMuso: um, that might be because we didn't have the artwork to do it the way the vanilla Ubuntu images do it (with a blue background instead of purple)
<jbicha> I think some of the other flavors skips the automatic boot too but the Ubuntu way is nice
<TheMuso> jbicha: Oh ok.
<TheMuso> jbicha: Well the Ubuntu way helps WRT ease of setup with Orca et al.
<TheMuso> Because on the try/install Ubuntu screen, one can launch Orca if required.
<TheMuso> jbicha: You running saucy yet? :)
<jbicha> TheMuso: no, there wasn't anything good in saucy until today
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> I'm running it anyways. given the quality effort, things should be fine.
<TheMuso> And at this early stage its easy to upgrade.
<darkxst> jbicha, logind is in
<jbicha> yeah, they don't let us break things anymore :(
<TheMuso> Thats a good thing though, no really it is. :)
<crhrabal> TheMuso: We'll see. Running saucy now but not much has come in yet
<mlankhorst> morning
<_d4vid> hello guys
<_d4vid> i have some idea
<_d4vid> but i can not speak so good english
<_d4vid> anyone speak russian or german?
<mlankhorst> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/local-language
<_d4vid> mlankhorst, yes thanks but from russian team nobody work in canonical
<_d4vid> thats problem
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner__, hi
<seb128> hey
<cyphermox> kenvandine: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=0
<mdeslaur> desrt: in case you haven't noticed, meeting got moved to tomorrow at 11:30
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-30
<darkxst> pitti, ping
<xclaesse> devhelp is missing code examples in at least glib. I disaply "FIXME: MISSING XINCLUDE CONTENT" instead of having the code. It seems the be an ubuntu packaging bug because doc display correctly if I build upstream glib git
<xclaesse> See for example GApplication
<pitti> darkxst: pong (but leaving for breakfast, back in 30 mins)
<Laney> This is a reminder for:
<Laney> Title: Desktop team meeting
<Laney> When: Tue 30 Apr 2013 08:30 â 09:30 Pacific Time
<Laney> GUYS!
<Laney> ;-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, lightdm doesn't have a Vcs-Bzr:? Are you just using UDD for that now?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yes
<robert_ancell> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699354
<ubot2> Gnome bug 699354 in introspection "g-ir-compiler man page for --shared-library incorrectly says "lib" and ".so" should be removed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> robert_ancell: cheers
<darkxst> pitti, did you see my external panels stuff for g-c-c? does that seem like a reasonable solution?
<pitti> no, I didn't TBH; I'm not following the UI bits that closely as I'm not working on those
<darkxst> ah, ok
<darkxst> seb128, hi
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<darkxst> can you look over my external panels patch?
<seb128> darkxst, will do but maybe not this week (travelling for work)
<darkxst> seb128, ok thanks
<seb128> darkxst, thanks for working on that!
<darkxst> seb128, np
<chrisccoulson> pitti is maintaining hal again? ;)
<pitti> shhhh!
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-01
<darkxst> pitti, we don't have localed, right?
<darkxst> ricotz, are you running saucy?
<ricotz> darkxst, yes
<darkxst> is g-c-c region panel crashing now?
<ricotz> yes
<darkxst> strange, there is a dbus proxy callback for localed, that has decided to fire all of a sudden ;(
<ricotz> darkxst, oh :\ you already copied g-c-c
<darkxst> ricotz, this is unrelated to the panels stuff
<ricotz> darkxst, is this related to systemd 202?
<darkxst> ricotz, probably
<ricotz> i guess you already have a backtrace to look at?
<darkxst> actually looks like org.freedesktop.locale1 has disappeared
<darkxst> yeh
<ricotz> org.freedesktop.locale1 is available here
<darkxst> ricotz, can you past the output from Locale?
<darkxst> on org.f.locale1 of course
<ricotz> darkxst, seems to return nothing/null
<darkxst> ricotz, that is a problem!
<darkxst> it should return ['LANG=...','LANGUAGE= '] etc
<darkxst> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1175065
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175065 in systemd (Ubuntu) "org.freedesktop.locale1 fails to return locale data" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> hyperair: ping :)
<hyperair> czajkowski: pong
<czajkowski> sent you the pastebin from the log
<czajkowski> weird game = headache!
<hyperair> czajkowski: yeah. could you try starting from scratch and installing just pengobrain alone?
<hyperair> czajkowski: thing is that one of those other games you installed might have pulled in the missing dependency
<czajkowski> hyperair: see pm
<pitti> darkxst: we do have localed
<pitti> darkxst: will look into it
<pitti> darkxst: heh, it's even caught by the autopkgtests
<Sweetshark> BAWL!1!
<pitti> seb128: do you know who actually pays attention to org.gnome.desktop.screensaver.gschema.xml's "ubuntu-lock-on-suspend" key?
<pitti> seb128: we don't have that in gnome-screensaver at least
<seb128> pitti, g-s-d
<seb128> pitti, and g-c-c sets it
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> seb128: so it's our g-s-d which locks the screen on suspend, not gnome-screensave
<pitti> seb128: I just taught g-screensaver to do that now, but I need to check gsettings whether that's actually desired
<pitti> seb128: so I guess I rather change g-s-d's 51_lock_screen_on_suspend.patch to listen to logind instead of upower
<seb128> pitti, right
<pitti> hm, why is that in settings-daemon and not in screensaver
<pitti> for upstream, it is in g-shell
<seb128> pitti, we just patched where the suspend was happening iirc
<pitti> seb128: s/suspend/lock/, right
<seb128> yeah, lock
<pitti> I guess we need to clean that up for 3.8, but for now let's just update that patch
<pitti> seb128: merci!
<pitti> err
<pitti> seb128: merci !
<seb128> pitti, de rien
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: actually, I don't really feel like introducing logind support into our old g-s-d; I guess I just check the key in g-screensaver rather, would that be okay?
<pitti> seb128: (it only works with upower right now)
<pitti> we can then drop 51_lock_screen_on_suspend.patch, and potentially others
<seb128> pitti, wfm, as long as the result is still the same for the end user I'm happy
<pitti> seb128: I think that will better mirror what the shell does
<pitti> seb128: so we don't break g-s-d when being used with shell
<seb128> cool
<seb128> +1
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, pitti
<chrisccoulson> how's the sunburn today? :)
<pitti> Ã§a va chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: better indeed! starts to peel off
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, me too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, better for me as well!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not bad thanks. the ventilation system is driving me crazy in this room though
<Laney> United We Stand
<chrisccoulson> it's like someone is playing white noise constantly in to our room ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, come to the desktop room, it's nice in there ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<sarnold> oh no you can't steal our guy back! he's ours!
<mlankhorst> g'day!
<mlankhorst> hope your day has been as beautiful as mine
<Laney> we miss mlankhorst and his australian ways
<Laney> xnox: I put your name against ubiquity on http://pad.ubuntu.com/saucy-logind-transition
<xnox> Laney: ok. looking at calling pam_open & pam_start_session, or simply calling logind's dbus create session call.
<Laney> you brave man
<Laney> pam should be the way, IIUC
<pitti> Laney: uploaded g-screensaver fix, FYI
<Laney> nice!
<pitti> now we have bug 1175065 as the only remainign regression I'm aware of, I'll look into that now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175065 in systemd (Ubuntu) "org.freedesktop.locale1 fails to return locale data" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175065
<pitti> darkxst: still here?
<pitti> darkxst: uploading fixed systemd for ^
<pitti> Laney: so that's the last regression known to me; anything else on your radar?
<Laney> pitti: not as such, just figuring out what the best thing for ubiquity-dm to do is
<Laney> see #-devel
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> Laney: you are on ubiquity? ok, then I'll continue with some other packages on the pad
<Laney> not 'on' it as such, but aware that xnox and slangasek are discussing it wrt. pam
<xnox> pitti: well... me and laney are on it. basically if indicator-session is broken it will fail to shutdown machine then ubiquity will need fixing: calling logind to start session or calling libpam to open a session.
<pitti> xnox: I've prodded cyphermox and didrocks to land indicator-session manually, until auto-landing is fixed, FYI
<pitti> trunk indicator-session works just fine with logind
<cyphermox> pitti: it won't be manual but it will land tonight
<xnox> pitti: good.
<xnox> saucy images are building and available and are cronned.
<pitti> cyphermox: that assumes that UTAH gets unbroken?
<xnox> but those are on the "real" cdimage, instead of the fake one at the conference network.
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> pitti: I'll manually test here, and manually publish
<cyphermox> (if tests fail)
<pitti> ah right, didrocks mentioned we can do a manual copy from the PPA
<pitti> cyphermox: merci !
<Laney> ricotz: any change of a docky release with the logind support that got merged?
<pitti> Laney: for cinnamon I'll just add an explicit consolekit dep; or do you happen to know about any logind plans there?
<Laney> pitti: no, I'd do that and file a bug upstream
<pitti> right
<Laney> just grabbed the latest release (yesterday) and it still has CK
<ricotz> Laney, is the current systemd support of docky not working?
<Laney> ricotz: oh, it's in the archive version?
<Laney> I just checked lp:docky and saw it got merged since the release (or at least looked so)
<ricotz> Laney, ah you are right, it isnt in 2.1.x
<Laney> righto
<Laney> so then a release would be nice :-)
<Laney> are you involved with do? I can't remember
<ricotz> yeah, i guess this would be a reason do finally do one again
<ricotz> Laney, no, RAOF would probaly like to take a look at DO ;)
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> I just saw him
 * Laney lunch hunts ;-)
<Laney> ttyl
<ricotz> Laney, alright ;)
<seb128> attente, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash#Debug_Symbol_Packages
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-02
<ricotz> Laney, hi, will saucy get mond 3.0.x?
<ricotz> *mono
<ricotz> just curious while i haven't built docky with it yet
<Laney> seems likely, yes
<Laney> ricotz:
<ricotz> Laney, ok, 2.2.0 should build though
<ricotz> with 3.0 too
<Laney> ricotz: you should use logind for suspend and hibernate too
 * Laney writes a patch
<Laney> ricotz: please to review and apply to the debian package?
<ricotz> Laney, will do
<Laney> wasn't entirely sure what the interface was about
<ronald_dollar> anyone have a fix for the keyboard only working on reboots? please private message me with help!
<ricotz> Laney, done
<Laney> ta
<ronald_dollar> anyone have a fix for the keyboard only working on reboots? please private message me with help!
<dobey> ronald_dollar: this isn't a help channel. you want #ubuntu probably
<desrt> kenvandine: qmlscene: could not find a Qt installation of ''
<kenvandine> install those depends :)
<desrt> i installed them all
<kenvandine> humm
<desrt> 'cept the hud one
<desrt> because it doesn't exist
<kenvandine> do you have qtchooser?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> it says the same thing
<desrt> could not find ...
<kenvandine> one sec
<kenvandine> QT_SELECT=qt5 qmlscene samegame.qml
<kenvandine> how about that?
<desrt> now it says it can't find a qt installation of 'q5'
<desrt> getting closer!
<desrt> *qt5
<kenvandine> do you have /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmlscene
<desrt> yes
<kenvandine> run that
<kenvandine> does that work?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> now it's bitching about the HUD
<kenvandine> interesting
<desrt> which makes sense :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<desrt> thanks
<kenvandine> that must use alternatives or something
<desrt> k.  working great now
<desrt> with hud bits commented out
<kenvandine> cool
 * desrt copies the cpp bits of friends-app into samegame and starts having fun
<mitya57> desrt: qtchooser not working is still a bug, do other commands (like qmake) work?
<mitya57> and what is the output of `qtchooser -list-versions`?
<desrt> qmake is broken too
<desrt> and -list-versions does nothing at all
<desrt> ie: empty list, i guess
<desrt> how does one get the cflags/libs of qt?
<desrt> seems to be missing a .pc file...
<desrt> ah.   the dev packages are named oddly.
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> qtbase5-dev
<kenvandine> etc
<mitya57> that indicates that qtchooser is completely broken :(
 * mitya57 looks at the qt-detection code
<mitya57> desrt: are you using saucy?
<seb128_> kenvandine, where can I get your game from the other night?
<kenvandine> seb128, lp:samegame
<kenvandine> or the core apps collections ppa
<seb128> kenvandine, do I need anything special to install it on the tablet?
<kenvandine> it'll get the depends for you
<kenvandine> from the ppa
<seb128> need to find the ppa
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily ?
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/collection
<seb128> ok, found it
<seb128> hum, qtdeclarative5-hud1.0
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, sorry
<seb128> kenvandine, hum, not happy
<seb128> kenvandine, where can I find libhud-qt1 ?
<kenvandine> the daily-build-next ppa...
<kenvandine> it's in the daily images
<kenvandine> seb128, or are you installing on your laptop?
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: so it seems that the blur corruption bug is fixed now, it would be nice if you could just test nux from ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build
<rickspencer3> hi Trevinho
<rickspencer3> I'll test it later
<rickspencer3> and nice :)
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: hi, thanks...
<rickspencer3> meh, I'll try it now
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: when you want... Just adding the repo and apt-get install'ing nux should be fine
<rickspencer3> Trevinho, what specific package name do you need me to install?
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: libnux-4.0-0 should be enough
<rickspencer3> Trevinho, it worked :)
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: awesome! ;)
<rickspencer3> Trevinho, is there a bug that I should comment on?
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nux/+bug/1087534
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1087534 in nux (Ubuntu) "[regression] Corrupted blurred overlays" [Critical,Triaged]
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm trying to put it on my nexus, but the image there is 10 days old
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> kenvandine, I've added those
<kenvandine> seb128, add the daily-build-next ppa
<seb128> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next/ubuntu saucy main
<seb128> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/collection/ubuntu rar
<seb128> ing main
<seb128> but that's not enough
<kenvandine> not saucy
<kenvandine> raring
<seb128> I tried that first I think
<seb128> let me try again
<rickspencer3> Trevinho, ok done
<rickspencer3> thanks
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: yw
<seb128> kenvandine, got it installed
<seb128> kenvandine, now to figure how to start it ;-)
<Trevinho> rickspencer3: it was the typical 1-line issue, but finding it in about 80 new revisions and into a single merge request of about 6000 lines took some time ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, that is tricky
<kenvandine> seb128, you need to search in the app lens
<Trevinho> also I had no hardware to test until this week
<kenvandine> but... i had trouble with the keyboard not showing up... until i re-flashed yesterday
<seb128> kenvandine, running \o/
<acoleman1981> has anyone else had the issue of a usb keyboard and mouse working but when removing the usb devices and trying to use the installed touchpad and keyboard (laptop) it only works every other reboot?  Please private message me with any help available or links to instructions. Thanks!
<sarnold> acoleman1981: that's better, some actual details :) but a few more thoughts: (a) #ubuntu is better for support (b) no one likes private messaging. it prevents other people from helping or learning.
<seb128> kenvandine, weird, I could play one game and now it's stucked in a weird state, even after a reboot
<kenvandine> the game is?
<seb128> the toolbar at the bottom is showing the "new game" icon too much on the right (e.g a bit out of the screen)
<acoleman1981> ok whatever do you have help or useless suggestions
<kenvandine> seb128, that sounds like a deeper problem :/
<kenvandine> seb128, i was having a bunch of odd issues until i flashed again
<seb128> kenvandine, and I can't click on it (I can start a new through the hud but then the ui doesn't "update" as it should)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will try to put the current image on it
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks ;-)
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> the keyboard was light years better after i flashed :)
<kenvandine> and before i flashed i had some apps that didn't render at all
<kenvandine> works great now
<chrisccoulson> acoleman1981, for you, only useless suggestions
<acoleman1981> i just need help not bullsh** please
<seb128> kenvandine, cool, btw you are right, the toolbar issue happens on other apps as well
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes my lord
 * seb128 respects the channel op
<chrisccoulson> hah
<seb128> I'm sure you are no op on the security team channel
<seb128> come back to desktop ;-)
<mlankhorst> lure him with cookies
<seb128> chrisccoulson, 'http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/'$(printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum)
<mlankhorst> seb128: optimist, believing oems will fill in product_uuid as a true uuuid
<happyaron> seb128: do you think fcitx's Qt5 IM Module can be added to the repository through SRU? it's not in the archive right now but things like friends-apps need that to get inputing from fcitx work.
<seb128> happyaron, it's a call for the SRU team, you can file a request about it
<happyaron> seb128: ok
<seb128> it's not likely to break anything so why not
<darkxst> pitti, should PK what-provides locale, still work?
<pitti> darkxst: with aptdaemon, in principle yes
<pitti> darkxst: but aptdaemon's autopkgtests currently fail, looks like something got broken there
<darkxst> pitti, I see, guess that is why I can't get it too work
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-03
<darkxst> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/1175972
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175972 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptdaemon packagekit compatibility layer broken" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> darkxst: thanks
<mterry> robert_ancell, is bug 1175846 a known or expected issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175846 in Light Display Manager "1.7: autologin does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175846
<robert_ancell> mterry, unknown
<chrisccoulson> hi jibel. do you know why the recent test runs on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/ are failing? is it because summary.xml isn't valid xml (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~auto-package-testing-dev/auto-package-testing/trunk/revision/180)
<chrisccoulson> ?
<jibel> chrisccoulson, yes, I fixed it yesterday
<chrisccoulson> jibel, cool, thanks :)
<jibel> chrisccoulson, I restarted the test
<chrisccoulson> jibel, thanks
<sil2100> attente: ping
<mterry> robert_ancell, I found https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51833 regarding a PIN PAM -- seems decent
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 51833 in general "PIN login infrastructure" [Normal,New]
<Laney> cyphermox: bah, I overlooked that https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/indicator-datetime/use-upower/+merge/153809 never got merged
<cyphermox> Laney: ack, well, it will now
<Laney> ta
<cyphermox> let's see how didrocks fixed the publication stuff, then perhaps I can force a rerun to land that today as well
<Laney> it's pretty minor so no huge rush
<darkxst> Laney, hi
<Laney> hi
<darkxst> any thoughts on adding a dbus interface to langugage-selector?
<darkxst> for getting language lists etc
<Laney> hmm, not really
<Laney> what would consume it?
<darkxst> gnome-control-center region panel
<Laney> to install langpacks or?
<darkxst> Laney, at the very least to list available langpacks and their installed status
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> isn't packagekit supposed to be able to do that?
<darkxst> packagekit does "what-provides locale"
<darkxst> I don't think it can list available locales
<Laney> I wonder if that would be a better level to do this at?
<darkxst> perhaps
<darkxst> the packagekit stuff already depends on language-selector
<Laney> yeah, that provides the plugin
<darkxst> yes I saw that
<Laney> darkxst: what about this gnome_get_all_locales function in libgnome-desktop?
<darkxst> Laney, by default it reads locale-archive
<darkxst> which only returns installed locales
<Laney> doesn't look in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED or anything else?
<Laney> if not, then yeah, adding a PK plugin for this and hooking it up to gcc might be nice
<Laney> happy to review that when it's ready
<darkxst> Laney, nope, it doesnt check SUPPORTED
<darkxst> it might have in the past, but not anymore
 * Laney nods
<Laney> rodrigo's old branch did this: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/common/cc-common-language.c?h=wip/install-languages
<Laney> might be useful for ideas in general
<darkxst> Laney, yes I saw that, I really need installed status though, and calling what-provides on every available locale, seems like overkill
<Laney> sure, an API to do this would be nice
<darkxst> Laney, ok will look into, can't do much right now though, since aptdaemon.pkcompat is stuffed right now
<darkxst> bug 1175972
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175972 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptdaemon packagekit compatibility layer broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175972
<darkxst> Laney, do you think it would be worthwhile to add a general purpose packagekit api to cc_common?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-04
<mfisch> will saucy be moving to gnome 3.8?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-28
<pitti> Good morning
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<darkxst> seb128, hey!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
 * seb128 thinks it's monday morning and when IRC start blinking in the minute you run it, that can't be good
<seb128> hey darkxst
 * darkxst just got internet again! sorry :)
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<cking> cyphermox, ping
<darkxst> seb128, so what will happen with the gnome-desktop transition for U?
<seb128> cking, it's like 3am on a sunday night for him, you might want to let some context for later
<seb128> darkxst, dunno, we didn't discuss U and what we do with GNOME components yet
<cking> i'll pop him an email
<mvo> seb128: I know its monday morning when I feel extraordinary sleepy ;)
<seb128> we said we would discuss it tomorrow at the meeting
<seb128> mvo, good morning ;-)
<mvo> seb128: and GOOD MORNING (in best jdub voice)
<darkxst> seb128, when is the meeting?
<seb128> mvo, you forgot the freedom lover part!
<seb128> darkxst, weekly meeting, 15:30utc
<mvo> seb128: haha, very true
<seb128> but it's the weekly team roundtable, I expect us to discuss a bit what we do but we are probably going to continue discussions on lists after that
<darkxst> seb128, right thats pretty impossible for me to attend..
<darkxst> but I am sure you know by now, how much we are blocked by the old gnome-desktop!
<darkxst> then there are the CSD issues as well I guess
<seb128> we know about gnome-desktop
<seb128> we can probably go ahead with that transition in U
<seb128> but I think we are going to clean out some bugs through SRUs first and do Debian merges
<seb128> e.g usual start of the cycle tiding up work
<seb128> before starting with new transitions/changes
 * darkxst notices cogl transition has already started ;) 
<seb128> what are the issue with CSD (out of the fact that they don't work out of gnome-shell, which is an issue but one for everybody but you)
<seb128> yeah, we autosynced with Debian
<seb128> which is sort of my point
<darkxst> seb128, exactly that, most 3.12 apps are using CSD's now
<seb128> we already have transitions started through the Debian syncing
<darkxst> part of it can be solved by making Unity ignore the WM hints
<seb128> so we need to clear those out before adding new ones
<seb128> the issue is not specific to Unity
<seb128> try running one of those under xfce
<darkxst> then xfce should ignore the hints as well I Guess, either way upstream won't take patches to disable via themeing in GTK
<seb128> CSD or "let's make things incompatible with everything existing and give the finger to everyone telling them to go change their code" :/
<darkxst> seb128, that said I did semi-play with this and have some half-baked patches, if you really want to disable CSD's from gtk and carry as distro patches
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<darkxst> hey Laney
<seb128> darkxst, we didn't define what to do yet, but yeah we are going to need to decide on something
<seb128> I think we are going to end up patching the default apps to not use CSD at least under Unity
<seb128> same we patched them to have menus
<seb128> that's the only way to have them not regress in user experience
<darkxst> seb128, not sure how you guys can criticise gnome for going off in there own direction, which is exactly what you guys are doing! just a slightly different direction
<darkxst> seb128, you can't patch the apps, you either need to patch GTK or WM
<seb128> darkxst, we can patch the apps to not use a gtkheaderbar
<darkxst> Everything is using GTKHeaderBar now
<darkxst> you would be better off patching GTKHeaderBar to not display window controls
<seb128> darkxst, I don't criticise GNOME for going their own direction, I criticize app writers to not think about their users on non gnome-shell desktops
<seb128> darkxst, in their defence they were used to have GTK working on any desktop without effort
<seb128> which is not true anymore, and most app writer didn't notice
<darkxst> GNOME is a desktop! and only the official GNOME apps are using CSD's?
<seb128> official ?
<seb128> like gthumb
<seb128> or d-feet ?
<seb128> I'm also unsure that e.g file-roller is "an official GNOME app"
<seb128> it's a standalone app and it probably has as many users out of GNOME desktop that it has there
<seb128> it's just that GNOME like to call everything hosted on their git as "part of GNOME"
<seb128> same for gnome-calculator
<seb128> that was gcalctool and a standalone app, long before there was a notion of GNOME apps
<seb128> those are just GTK apps that happen to have been historically hosted on the GNOME infrastructure
<darkxst> seb128, I suppose GTK could be redifined GNOME toolkit now and then everything makes sense!
<seb128> right
<seb128> what is let to know if app writers are still wanting to use it then
<seb128> because most have users out of GNOME
<darkxst> QT is just as alien!
<seb128> you can resize and move qt apps on any desktop though ;-)
<ochosi> +1
<darkxst> seb128, you can disable lack of titlebar on any desktop by ignoring the WM hint in the window manager
<ochosi> (while gtk might in fact be the gnome toolkit, xfce still uses it)
<darkxst> ochosi, gtk was once GIMP toolkit
<seb128> darkxst, "you" is not the apps writers nor the users in that case
<ochosi> darkxst: i know, are you making a point?
<darkxst> seb128, what does it have to do with the app writers?
<seb128> well, the situation currently is that app writers using gtkheaderbars end up having a buggy experience for their users on a variety of desktops
<seb128> sure you can claim that those desktop could patch that wm
<desrt> seb128: hi!  how are you today?
<seb128> but reality is that there are plenty of desktop which behave buggy currently with new gtk widgets
<seb128> desrt, hey, very good ;-) how are you? had a good w.e ?
<desrt> seb128: yup.  weather in berlin is very nice :)
<seb128> great
<desrt> we had a whiskey tasting last night :)
<seb128> they forecast rain for weeks here, still didn't get it
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> *ears prick up*
<desrt> don't complain :p
<seb128> was that a dholbach plan? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, desrt
<desrt> no.  kat, dave, claudia and claudia's husband(?)
<seb128> k
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<desrt> larsu was supposed to join but he bailed at the last minute.  boo.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you highlight on whiskey? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not bad thanks. and you?
<seb128> good thanks!
<chrisccoulson> hah, not quite. i'd just sat down when I noticed it ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> oh I didn't reply
<Laney> weekend was playing mgs and climbing = good ;-)
<seb128> ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, point being, window decorations can be re-enabled by ignoring the XWM hints, everything else can be controlled via themes and/or xsettings
<darkxst> (in 3.12)
<seb128> darkxst, is "ignoring the XWM hints" correct or a workaround hack?
<darkxst> i.e. you can make the CSD's display, minimise, maximise and close
<darkxst> or nothing
<darkxst> seb128, correct, not just a hack, that is how upstream expect things to work
<seb128> "ignoring" doesn't seem proper behaviour
<seb128> if there is an hint it's probably for a reason and not to be ignored?
<darkxst> seb128, its a "hint" not a "demand"
<seb128> well, if somebody bothered adding hint that's probably for a reason
<darkxst> seb128, right, but that is for GNOME reasons
<desrt> darkxst: did you also have a good weekend? :)
 * seb128 has the feeling desrt is trying to stop that discussion
<desrt> seb128: too early on monday morning for pointless trolls
<seb128> desrt, it's not really a troll, we need to figure out what we do with CSD this cycle
<desrt> it seems this conversations tends to go around in circles...
<seb128> though it drifted to "who is to blame" which is probably not useful
<larsu> seb128: there is a very simple solution to this problem: add frame extents to compiz
<seb128> larsu, shrug
<seb128> it's not about compiz
<seb128> xfce has the same issue
<seb128> wmaker has the same issue
<desrt> ...and back to 'who to blame' :)
<seb128> and I can go on if you want
<darkxst> desrt, I had a good 10 day climbing trip :)
<darkxst> ^Laney :)
<darkxst> seb128, from my discussion upstream, "hints" are more like recommends in apt
<seb128> larsu, also I'm not sure that even if compiz was to have proper decoration/border for those we wouldn't have an UI "regression" for Unity users in consistency/behaviour
<seb128> darkxst, right, and the reply to "packages have buggy recommends" is not "make apt ignore recommends"
<desrt> "_GTK_FRAME_EXTENTS"
<desrt> looks like a pretty universally-supported and well-specified hint
<desrt> i mean... why hasn't everyone else done this already?
<larsu> seb128: fair enough - this is a gtk extension and gtk ought to have a better fallback if it doesn't exist
<larsu> desrt <- sarcastic
<desrt> larsu <- benefit of being in the same room
<larsu> I didn't figure it out until I asked - it is even harder for people on irc
<darkxst> seb128, hmm, this is not buggy, its intentional
<darkxst> seb128, If some WM wants window decorations, it should ignore the hints
<seb128> darkxst, so an hint was invented/added in the goal of making wms ignore it?
<seb128> well the default behaviour should be to have decoration
<chrisccoulson> which hint? turning off window decorations? what about if I change chrome to not use the system titlebar?
<seb128> so the code works everywhere
<chrisccoulson> i don't think you can just ignore the hints
<seb128> now if gnome-shell is to do something new and specific, they can have an hint to opt in for that
<seb128> that would be the logical way to do things imho
<larsu> so gtk only checks whether the screen is composited and has rgba visuals to decide whether to enable csd
<darkxst> seb128, maybe, but 3.12 is well past freeze now, so good luck changing anything there!
<larsu> is there a way for the wm to advertise the things it supports?
<larsu> we could make gtk check that...
<larsu> Trevinho: ^
<desrt> _GTK_FRAME_EXTENTS is in _NET_SUPPORTED under metacity
<desrt> gtk should just check this....
<darkxst> larsu, I played with this ages ago, let me dig up my patches
<desrt> s/metacity/mutter/
<larsu> it is not in compiz (obviously=)
<desrt> this is mega-easy
<desrt> gdk already has code for reading this list and storing it on the screen
<darkxst> desrt, with 3.12 its just the window decorations
<darkxst> you have GtkHeaderBar:decoration-layout to see the window control within the buttons
<larsu> seb128: is there a bug open about the can't-resize-csd-windows?
<desrt> (upstream, ideally...)
<seb128> desrt, larsu: not that I know, darkxst might know better, he has been working with upstream on those issues
<seb128> to be honest- I didn't spend much energy on that since the plan for the LTS was to just avoid those
<darkxst> larsu, I don't think so, well I haven't seen one
<larsu> thanks
<darkxst> larsu, is that just a theming issue though? adwaita has invisible borders to make grabbing the handles easier I believe
<larsu> darkxst: it's both. You need the extension so that resizing a borderless window works and theming to draw the shadow
<larsu> (which is drawn client side, oddly enough)
<desrt> larsu: http://ur1.ca/h77j3
<darkxst> larsu, not sure why that is odd? CSD's are client side ;)
<desrt> news flash: resizing maybe not related to csd...
<larsu> darkxst: just seems like it should be done in the compositor
<larsu> so that stacking shadows can be dealt with properly
<desrt> larsu: http://ur1.ca/h77me
<Trevinho> larsu: yes, as said the _NET_SUPPORTED on root window can define that
<Trevinho> larsu, desrt: the problem is that I don't see any app on gtk 3.10 (speaking of trusty SRUs) to export that... Thus I didn't implement on new decos
<desrt> so there is a bug in gtk and also a bug in compiz
<desrt> the bug in gtk is that it doesn't properly check for frame extents
<desrt> but bug in compiz is that it doesn't resize windows that have borders
<Trevinho> desrt: the bug is in unity now... Compiz doesn't handle decorations anymore
<desrt> i'm gonna install xfce and check what happens there
<Trevinho> desrt: but, well it's true we need to add an input border to these as well
<larsu> desrt: ask seb128
<larsu> he tests on xfce all the time
<desrt> seb128: can you test something for me?
<seb128> desrt, yes?
<desrt> seb128: nvm.  installed it myself.
<desrt> xfce has a totally different issue
<seb128> k
<desrt> it _always_ draws the titlebar, ignoring the hint
<desrt> seems that gnome-shell is the only good WM here
<desrt> (...and even gtk gets it wrong there)
 * desrt tries kwin
<Trevinho> anyway, back to the general problem, I don't the we can just ignore the headerbar hint on non-gnome desktops, as the header bar might also include elements (such as non-window-buttons) that might be not shown anywhere else..
<seb128> desrt, right, xfce is what gives you https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YlXpA1jR3O0/UpMsjN5c_OI/AAAAAAAAAXo/ZKPUsRLr-5s/w480-h500-k/xfcecalc.png
<seb128> well, at least you know it's the calculator ;-)
<desrt> this is xfce's fault, for sure
<Trevinho> lol
<Trevinho> that's a nice way to save vertical space
<darkxst> Trevinho, ignoring the hint still leaves the GtkHeaderBar in place
<darkxst> so you have a titlebar and the header bar
<darkxst> it is possible to override appmenu and window controls from theming/xsettings
<Trevinho> darkxst: mh, so making it act like a toolbar without wm buttons, right?
<darkxst> Trevinho, exactly
<darkxst> atleast in gtk 3.12
<seb128> so if you use adwaita on gnome-classic you loose?
<desrt> seb128: probably...
<desrt> well... gnome-fallback, you mean
<seb128> right
<desrt> gnome classic works, obviously
<seb128> gnome-panel+compiz
<seb128> whatever that is called
<desrt> compiz is borked
<seb128> gnome-panel + ion
<desrt> gtk + metacity will be broken right now for stupid reasons (gtk bug)
<seb128> if you prefer :p
<desrt> after my patch, gtk+metacity would work
<desrt> since metacity is a good WM
<desrt> compiz, on the other hand... ;)
<larsu> s/a/the
 * larsu hides
<seb128> lol
<seb128> what about "awesome"? ;-)
<seb128> or whatever Laney is using
<seb128> that frame based wm
<Trevinho> desrt: it's quite trivial to fix *unity* as well ;)
<larsu> that's not good, obviously. It's awesome
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<desrt> Trevinho: please fix it :)
<desrt> kwin does the same as xfce....
<desrt> seems that these hints (from *motif*) are not yet supported in these modern WMs :)
<Trevinho> desrt: I will, but since we're focusing on T still, I will do that once gtk is exporting the atom
<desrt> Trevinho: doesn't work that way.
<desrt> Trevinho: you export the atom.
<Trevinho> ah, ok
<desrt> or rather, you don't
<desrt> and then gtk sees that you don't and changes its behaviour
<desrt> what you need to do is to support the 'border' hint properly
<desrt> ie: i want a border on this window, but no titlebar
<Trevinho> I see...
<desrt> and if the user's unity/compiz/etc. theme has 0-width borders then you need to figure out how resizing will work...
<Laney> xmonad
<Laney> I don't have decorations
<desrt> MWM_DECOR_BORDER is the name of the motif hint
<desrt> _MOTIF_WM_HINTS
<desrt> long live legacy!
<darkxst> desrt, yes that is it! hardly a new invention!
<desrt> darkxst: do you know an upstream bug link for this issue?
<Trevinho> desrt: would this recent change impact on us https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=fb9a6bb6d8d6b60b25c9b9853decbc As it seems related to other WMs with duplicated borders
<desrt> Trevinho: interesting......
<desrt> i was just about to add this check back in
<desrt> i think maybe this was the wrong fix....
 * desrt will talk to mclasen about this later....
 * desrt feels like he just wasted a lot of time
<darkxst> desrt, there was a bug regarding titlebars, I will see if I can find it later (cooking dinner now)
<darkxst> and pretty sure it was mclasen who said the WM should ignore hints
<Laney> vala-0.24, any objections?
<desrt> i hate wms
<Laney> wichard stallman
<larsu> lol
<davmor2> seb128: on settings on the desktop.  The brightness bar appears for a split second and then vanishes I'm pretty sure there is already a bug I've seen for it I was wondering if you knew if there was a fix knocking about I can try at all
<seb128> davmor2, no idea
<seb128> Laney, is that a new parallel source?
<Laney> yes as normal, switches the default
<Laney> Debian already did it
<seb128> I guess it works fine with gtk 3.10?
<seb128> well, let's go for it
<seb128> we can rollback if it turns out to be needed
<Laney> nod, ta
<darkxst> hmm, brightness api changed for 3.10, but that hasnt landed in archives yet
<darkxst> davmor2, are you using a ppa?
<davmor2> darkxst: Nope default trusty
<Laney> haha yeah I see that too
<darkxst> no idea then, the brightness changes have not landed yet
 * darkxst had to patch them out of gnome-shell...
<Laney> Error getting brightnesS: Timeout was reached
<darkxst> Laney, the api changes (I know off) are in g-s-d 3.10 and maybe gnome-desktop 3.10
<Laney> Probably not relevant
<darkxst> Laney, yes I gathered, just saying
<Laney> Nod, thanks
<Laney> yeah not sure you can fix this without the new API
<Laney> it's "see if the GetPercentage method times out" to determine whether to hide the row
<darkxst> Laney, good luck with that ;)
<Laney> I suggest the best way to fix this is to take the new properties from g-s-d 3.10 :-)
<Laney> I see they've replaced the 'screen' panel upstream
<darkxst> Laney, that would require my displayconfig daemon, but that would work
<darkxst> and gnome-desktop 3.10 of course
<Laney> we can probably manage that this cycle
<Laney> couple of weeks of merging fun first though
<darkxst> Laney, right, dbus activation is broken right now due to glib changes, but thats easy enough to fix
<darkxst> Laney, mind you I would like to go straight to 3.12
<Laney> haha
<darkxst> 3.10 -> 3.12 was somewhat less disruptive I believe
<seb128> they always say that?
<darkxst> seb128, I am saying that, although I haven't dug too deeply on it, so not sure how it might affect all the legacy stuff you guys are carrying, but I think it might be minimal
<seb128> there is at least an abi/api change on keyboard stuff
<seb128> I think we should do it by steps
<seb128> start with 3.10, stabilize that and then see what's next
<darkxst> seb128, I certainly won't have to time to work on a double transition this cycle
<darkxst> seb128, and you little steps, generally end up in us missing out on various bits
<seb128> well, the alternative is too land more than we can chew in a cycle and take an hit in quality
<seb128> which we decided to stop doing
<seb128> quality first nowadays
<darkxst> seb128, for gnome-desktop then?
<darkxst> ^fork
<darkxst> have a libunity-desktop ;)
<darkxst> I would like to land gnome-desktop, gnome-setting-daemon (vanillised) and gnome-control-centre (vanillised) all at the same time
<seb128> that wouldn't work for the reasons we already mentioned
<seb128> then we would need to build e.g nautilus and eog with one of the 2 libs
<seb128> which would lead to "fork or dual build any consumer of the library that got forked"
<darkxst> seb128, apps can all build off the fork
<seb128> hum
<seb128> well, let's see how the cycle shapes, I doubt we are going to have free cycles for that
<darkxst> most of the app-side stuff apart from the thumbnailer is dead now
<seb128> we said we would land 3.10 this cycle, you can get g-s-d and g-c-c vanillised with it
<seb128> that should be a good start
<Laney> seb128: would you reject valabind please https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=1
<Laney> stupid wrong target
 * Laney needs to dist-upgrade already
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> ty
<seb128> yw
<seb128> I wonder what to do here
<seb128> I'm tempted to stay on the LTS until .1
<darkxst> seb128, not exactly, you forked g-s-d/g-c-c to unblock us, but it wasn't enough
<Laney> i bet you have multiple machines
<seb128> not that I use
<seb128> like I've my old laptop and a netbook
<seb128> but I boot them once a week as test machines
<seb128> darkxst, right, it's a step in the right direction, but we manage to do only so much each cycle
<darkxst> seb128, which is why I think we should skip g-d 3.10
<seb128> I fail to see the logic there
<seb128> 3.10 is <some work>, 3.12 is <some extra work>
<seb128> if we directly go to 3.12 we sign for the extra work
<seb128> it makes more sense to do it by steps and see how things go and how busy everyone is
<Laney> hmm, not sure about that
<darkxst> seb128, no, 3.10 was <lots of work>, 3.12 is <a little extra>
<Laney> it assumes 3.12 is going to be much more difficult
<Laney> but doing the work twice is certainly going to be harder than doing it at once
<seb128> I don't assume anything without having looked
<seb128> but that means I don't assume it's going to be trivial work either
<seb128> Laney, if you want to asset the work for 3.12 and "own" the transition feel free
<Laney> I think we need to know what the api changes are
<seb128> we just need somebody who commits to do the work
<seb128> and I'm not that somebody
<seb128> but I'm not stopping others ;-)
<Laney> well I wouldn't mind assisting if -gnome wants to drive it
<seb128> we need somebody to lead/commit to do it
<seb128> I don't mind assisting either
<seb128> but that's the typical "no real owner" that leads to "nobody has cycles to do the bulk of the work"
<darkxst> seb128, seriously, you just drive away all assistance, right?
<Laney> sure, those who want the change can work for it
<seb128> darkxst, ?
<darkxst> I have put in countless hours on work that ultimately gets knocked back each cycle
<seb128> there has been for sure some friction between stability/updates, especially with everybody being busy and the LTS coming
<seb128> we spent quite some work previous cycle to lower those frictions/resolve it
<darkxst> seb128, this goes back well before the LTS
<seb128> (e.g with u-s-d u-c-c)
<darkxst> seb128, right and then you  basically abandoned g-c-c? and desktop-team never uploaded by g-c-c 3.8 branch
<seb128> well, bottom line is that we working on resolving those issues, even if it takes time
<seb128> well, g-c-c is yours, yes we mostly stopped working on it (though robert_ancell did some fixing before release for e.u.c ranked issues)
<darkxst> seb128, while I agree you are working on resolving the issues, your methodology just makes more work for us
<seb128> hum, g-c-c 3.8 was ready? the situation got a bit confused, there was nothing in the sponsoring queue and you guys were aiming for 3.10
<Laney> Personally I'm happy to work with you on gnome-desktop 3.12 if you want to do that, I tend to agree that doing it twice makes it more unlikely to happen
<seb128> you have been without internet at the same time as well
<seb128> which was unfortunate
<darkxst> seb128, only a 3 or so weeks
<seb128> well, not sure why g-c-c 3.8 fall through the cracks then
<seb128> it was not listed on the sponsoring queue
<seb128> and nobody pinged back to remind us about it
<darkxst> seb128, there was definately a MP for it
<darkxst> anyway the point of all this, Is i want to go straight to 3.12 this cycle for g-d, g-s-d, g-c-c
<seb128> there were 2, and they were not based on current trunk
<seb128> k
<seb128> fair enough
<seb128> let's work on getting gnome-desktop 3.12 then
<darkxst> seb128, yes
<seb128> g-s-d g-c-c are all yours
<seb128> Laney, thanks for proposing to help there
<Laney> sure
<Laney> also I patched cheese 3.12 to have a conditional header bar ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, happy to deal with those
<Laney> #bleedingedge
<darkxst> Laney, cheese is not using GTKHeaderBar?
<Laney> sure it is
<darkxst> Laney, seems really wrong to patch individual apps in that case
<seb128> how did we get cheese 3.12 ?!
<Laney> we didn't
<seb128> k
<Laney> (yet)
<seb128> because we didn't have the discussions on what we do with GNOME/apps this cycle (yet)
<darkxst> seb128, are you ok with g-s-d and g-c-c getting added to the ubuntu-gnome packageset?
<seb128> darkxst, yes
<seb128> darkxst, btw does anyone plan to SRU g-c-c to list the correct OS version in trusty?
<pitti> seb128: seems I earned the libnotify merge (https://merges.ubuntu.com/libn/libnotify/libnotify_0.7.6-1ubuntu3.patch) -- do you remember why we needed to revert the gir api?
<darkxst> seb128, noskcaj was supposed to be on that
<seb128> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709524 summarize it well
<ubot2> Gnome bug 709524 in general "API/ABI change to due recent add_action changes?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702390#c13
<ubot2> Gnome bug 702390 in general "NotifyNotification: fix annotation for add_action()" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> (that bug has the discussion we had by then)
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks; so check apt-cache rdepends gir1.2-notify-0.7 for which ones use that API?
<pitti> (and update them)
<seb128> pitti, it's not that easy, we should imho do a proper transition/change the binary name
<seb128> pitti, we ended up reverting because updating made unity8's CI tests go red iirc
<seb128> pitti, not sure how we can update all rdepends/tests in locked steps without a rename/proper transition
<pitti> well, we can't really
<pitti> that would involve adding code to all reverse depends to select a particular version of the ABI in GI
<pitti> which would again be a permanent delta
<seb128> well, if we rename the binary at least britney would keep in proposed until the archive is ported
<pitti> seb128: so in all cases we end up with a permanent delta against debian or upstream
<seb128> rename binary = changing the name of the .deb
<seb128> well, no upstream delta
<darkxst> seb128, maybe I will just get our artwork team to make a new image,but I still wonder which genius decided to embed the version within the image!
<pitti> seb128: the only dependency that seems relevant for that is unity-mail, or is there another one?
<pitti> (for making CI red, I mean)
<seb128> darkxst, nobody wrote code to generate a logo including the version at runtime
<darkxst> seb128, there were upstream patches for that
<seb128> pitti, I think it was unity8 by then when we reverted
<darkxst> hmm, or maybe sidestream (as in fedora patches)
<seb128> darkxst, those would generate text, not an logo that is compliant with our trademark
<seb128> iirc
<attente> Trevinho, hi, what do you think about https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity/1291461/+merge/215848? is it ok for merging?
<seb128> pitti, they had notification-in-unity8 tests somewhere
<seb128> pitti, Saviq might remember the specifics
<darkxst> seb128, why can't the version number be text?
<seb128> pitti, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnotify/+bug/1223401 , Saviq had a branch there
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1223401 in libnotify (Ubuntu) "[0.7.6] the add_action api changed creating issues for clients" [High,Confirmed]
<Saviq> but it's gone now, too...
<Saviq> but it was just adding the None param or so
<seb128> darkxst, they can, we just need a logo/layout that looks good ... anyway, xnox improved things for trusty, we generate the logo at build-time now
<seb128> Saviq, right, the question was rather "which test went red when the api changed"
<seb128> because pitti wants to drop the revert
<Saviq> yeah, all the notification ones
<seb128> so we need to "fix" the rdepends
<darkxst> seb128, ok I will take a look and try merge into g-c-c
<Saviq> maybe not all, but some of unity8.shell.tests.test_notifications.py
<seb128> thanks
 * Saviq looks up smokeng results around that time
<darkxst> seb128, last question before I go to sleep, are you ok with SRU on https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+files/gobject-introspection_1.39.3-0ubuntu1%7Etrusty1_1.40.0-1ubuntu1%7Etrusty1.diff.gz
<darkxst> that is need for gjs 1.40.1 which fixes (well should) all the GC re-entrancy issues causing some crashes
<darkxst> in gjs apps
<seb128> darkxst, pitti is the person to ask about g-i
<seb128> no objection from my part
<darkxst> ^pitti?
<pitti> darkxst: that diff is unreadable; what does it do?
<pitti> i. e. it certainly needs to be stripped down, unless that's just the .1 upstream release
<Laney> looks like a merge
<Laney> but it doesn't make sense, 1.39.3 isn't what trusty has
<pitti> and tursty has 1.40.0 already
<Laney> oh it's some previous version in the ppa
<darkxst> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gobject-introspection/commit/?id=21e51026d74bca48b814ace73eb588e6542a27cd
<pitti> oh, debian/patches/git_tests_implementation_interface.patch
<pitti> darkxst: yes, absolutely fine for SRU -- this is gimarshallingtests only
<darkxst> pitti, yes
<darkxst> jenkins will blow up without it ;)
 * darkxst slowly realises launchpad is incredibly dumb ;( 
<Laney> I think it calculates the diffs at upload time
<Laney> no that doesn't make sense
<Laney> yeah it just picked a weird base
<darkxst> Laney, yeh it picked the old old ppa version, that was before we uploaded it into trusty, way back when mozjs24 landed
<darkxst> most likely that package was deleted in the meantime as well
<darkxst> although I have noticed deletions don't show up on my version scraper ;(
<darkxst> or just keep on showing up always
<Trevinho> attente: Hi, I quickly looked at it last week, and it's mostly ok, but really can't you remove the goto? Adding another simple method is just better, than it
<Trevinho> attente: I also had other small comments, but I'll be back on that soon
<attente> Trevinho, sure, i can remove the goto, it'll just be a bit more duplicated code
<Trevinho> attente: if you use a quick method, you can just call something like "return activate()"...
<attente> Trevinho, isn't that effectively like using goto?
<Saviq> pitti, seb128, FWIW here's where the unity8 tests failed: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/touch/mako/20130910/4122/unity8-autopilot/
<Trevinho> attente: yes, but just more adapt to higher level code
<attente> Trevinho, no problem
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<Laney> 13:39:08 NOPE!
<xnox> haha
<Laney> hey Sweet5hark, how's it going? ;-)
<Sweet5hark> fine, its a bit cloudy here so one can sit on the balcony above the playa des las canteras and still read the screen ;)
<Sweet5hark> Laney: Also note that "moin" is an all day greeting not limited to the morning hours as any northern german might tell you ;)
<Laney> it's always moin somewhere :P
<Sweet5hark> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin confirms ;)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, still hacking in canary islands?!
<Laney> Although many people think that moin derives from (Guten) Morgen ("Good Morning"), the word actually derives from the Dutch, Frisian, and Low German word mo(o)i, meaning "beautiful" or "good"
<Laney> w@w!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: staying a bit longer, results in a cheaper return flight.
<seb128> k
<seb128> enjoy ;-)
<Trevinho> ah, attente the other thing you shouldo do, is to get rid of ReloadAccelerators, and doing that instead in the constructor... then initialize the accelerator_controller_ just exaclty as we do for indicators_ (in LauncherController)
<attente> Trevinho, i did that because the object persists between locks, and the user might change those keybindings in between
<Trevinho> attente: yes, but we don't need to monitor the changes, do we?
<Trevinho> attente: I mean, if you initialize the Accelerators before each lock, we should get the new ones, isn't it?
<attente> but the LockScreenController needs a reference to the AcceleratorController so that we can handle opening the panel via Alt+F10
<Trevinho> attente: yes, in fact you can keep the reference...
<Trevinho> attente: just keep it around only during the lokscreen life
<Trevinho> attente: exaclty as we do for indicators
<attente> Trevinho, EnsureShields will only create the shields one time over the entire Unity session
<Trevinho> attente: nope, we destroy them when the lockscreen is hidden
<Trevinho> attente: check fade_animator_.finished.connect([this] { cb
<attente> Trevinho, ah, ok. for some reason, i thought i tried it, and the keybindings seemed to persist between locks.
<xnox> Laney: seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7352829/ ?
<Laney> --start
<Laney> That start on condition is wrong
<Laney> you need to block I think
<Laney> looks like the secrets one times out after a little bit
<xnox> Laney: per docs it's "--start" just "start" works here as well, will change for consistentcy.
<Laney> xnox: 'start' is just a random string which makes it spawn a new instance
<Laney> I think you need 'starting xsession-init' or something to block it early enough, sadly
<Laney> with your one I got normal ssh-agent
<xnox> Laney: that's... helpful... so the trouble is that something else is already starting the gnome-keyring, so i just want to query the existing variables, not actually spawn and manage gnome-keyring daemon.
<Laney> xnox: yeah, pam as you said isn't it?
<Laney> so it'll already be there
<xnox> Laney: maybe i should override and disable xdg/autostart .desktop jobs, and actually spawn the main process from upstart job similar to how ssh-agent does it and kill gnome-keyring pid in post-stop?
<xnox> so with "--start" it will not relaunch
 * xnox goes to count my gnome-keyring daemons
<Laney> I have the pam one only, after the secrets one times out
<Laney> the secrets one does not come from xdg autostart btw
<Sweet5hark> xnox: aha! Ur in my base, recompiling LibreOffice against boost  bumps!
<xnox> Sweet5hark: =))) did powerpc finish yet?!
<xnox> Sweet5hark: i did a local rebuild on amd64 and it looked harmless enough.
<Sweet5hark> xnox: seems all are finished and green.
<xnox> Laney: this looks.... odd... http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353086/
<xnox> it does run, it does propagate, but it's post-gui being up, and hence e.g. my terminal doesn't have the right vars =(
<Laney> with what start on?
<xnox> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353091/
<Laney> I think xsession is racy
<xnox> true.
<Laney> try starting xsession-init
<xnox> yet, i don't see where i can hook into from "after ssh/gpg agents" but before "xsession-init"
<xnox> cause that's where I want to be.
<Laney> after?
<Laney> why?
<xnox> but ssh-agent & gpg-agent are also "start start on starting xsession-init"
<xnox> or rather before them, cause otherwise they'd spawn non-gnome-keyring base agents and export them to the environment.
<xnox> (ugly gtk dialog for ssh for example)
<Laney> I think gnome-keyring will clobber them
<Laney> but yes you get stray processes
<Laney> that's what I see here
<xnox> should gnome-keyring ship overrides to disable ssh-agent/gpg-agent?
<tkamppeter> qengho, hi
<xnox> in non-upstart world, did gnome-keyring just clobber and leave stray processes?
<xnox> stgraber: how should gnome-keyring trump ssh-agent/gpg-agent jobs to provide agents the way we did before upstart started to manage desktop sessions?
<xnox> "echo manual" > ssh-agent.override ?
<qengho> tkamppeter: hi
<xnox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353195/ <- fix to make sure gpg-agent doesn't spawn if there is one already available.
<xnox> and then http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353198/ should do it nicely.
<Laney> will you get started up to three times?
<Laney> i.e. guard against -z GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL?
<xnox> yeap, good point.
<Laney> not that it matters since you'll get the same values
<Laney> still good to do
<xnox> well, doesn't everything have gnome_keyring_control from before upstart starts?!
 * xnox tests
<Laney> hmm maybe
<xnox> Laney: yeah keyring control is there without setting it, so i'll just drop that.
<xnox> Laney: guard against both ssh-agent & gpg-agent?
<xnox> [ -z "$SSH_AUTH_SOCK" ] || [ -z "GPG_AGENT_INFO" ] || { stop; exit 0; }
<Laney> that hurts my head
<xnox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7353267/
<Laney> you're missing a $
<xnox> ture.
 * xnox not type write today
<xnox> *right
<tkamppeter> qengho, earlier I had talked to you about opening .m3u files in Chromium and ended up opening bug 1311322. With seb128's instructions of comment #2 I was able to make Chromium use VLC for the .m3u files but there is still a small issue: Instead of directly opening the .m3u files with VLC it downloads them and lists them at the bottom. I have to click the file there to open it. How canm I configure Chromium t
<tkamppeter> o get the files directly opened.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1311322 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "There is no easy way to associate a program to a specific mimetype (out of using nautilus)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311322
<Laney> other than that I think it's good
 * xnox must resist ice-cream truck music
<Laney> don't
<Laney> 99 flake calls you
<mlankhorst> high priority mails at the end of a workday with a short deadline are the best :P
<Laney> "Laney needs ice cream by 6pm"?
<mlankhorst> haha
<xnox> =)))))))))
<stgraber> xnox: I suspect we'd want a gnome-keyring job that'd be made in a way that it always starts before the other two, then have the other two check if the environment is already set
<xnox> stgraber: ack, that's what i've ended up doing. uploaded gnupg and gnome-keyring again.
<stgraber> xnox: we need gnome-keyring to be upstart-managed anyway since otherwise some processes won't have the environment variables set, so this should be reasonably easy
<Sweet5hark> grumble, were do I get a password reset for canonicaladmin.com?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, not sure, ask the is channel or file a rt?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thanks.
<seb128> yw!
<tkamppeter> qengho, still there?
<qengho> tkamppeter: yes!
<tkamppeter> qengho, have you seen my question to you?
<qengho> tkamppeter: no, I didn't until now.
<qengho> tkamppeter: I don't know, offhand. You might try #chromium-support .
<tkamppeter> qengho, thanks anyway.
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: have you seen bug 1313885 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313885 in unity (Ubuntu) "lock screen bypass" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313885
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: can I assign you to it?
<mdeslaur> also, we need a fix for bug 1313910
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313910 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "can launch evolution from the greeter in 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313910
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, hey, i can't actually type anything in for bug 1313885
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313885 in unity (Ubuntu) "lock screen bypass" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313885
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, but ill get a fix for the command lens coming up at all
<bschaefer> as thats really the issue here...
<mdeslaur> bschaefer: awesome, thanks...let me know when you have a patch ready, and I'll push it out as a security update
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, sounds good, looks like theres a few other shortcuts causing issue (only when right clicking that top bar)
<bschaefer> looking at fixing those as well...
<bschaefer> (such as alt+f1, super+tab)
<mdeslaur> bschaefer: FYI, I can type in the command lens in a vm
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, interesting, well i've a fix that'll stop the commands lens from popping up :)
<mdeslaur> awesome :)
 * bschaefer is just checking all other shortcuts atm
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, alright, so this will be a work around for right now, as the real issue is the fact you can right click enough to get the windows menu to pop up
<bschaefer> but that alone doesn't cause problems, but allows the command lens to pop up
<bschaefer> ill have to talk with Trevinho  for the real fix
<bschaefer> lp:~brandontschaefer/unity/lp.1313885-fix
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/lp.1313885-fix/+merge/217516
<bschaefer> sadly, no one else on the unity7 team is around for a review :(
<bschaefer> opps, i need to fix that branch...(another branch got mixed in)
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/lp.1313885-fix/+merge/217519 (fixed MP)
<sarnold> bschaefer: why is the IsLocked() check removed from the SetUpAndShowSwitcher() method?
<bschaefer> sarnold, its just moved up a function
<bschaefer> sarnold, it looks iffy, but the SetUpSwitcher() before handle takes the cursor away
<bschaefer> i suppose thats not 100% needed for this branch though
<bschaefer> theres function A() which function A() calls B(), and function A() is the only function that calls function B(), and i just moved the check from B() to A()
<sarnold> bschaefer: good good :)
<bschaefer> yeah i had the same reaction when i saw the diff :)
<sarnold> :)
<sarnold> I figured it was just hauled up in the call chain but the diff doesn't have sufficient context to judge that. hehe.
<bschaefer> yeah it doesn't show that :)
<bschaefer> but theres was some other code that was being ran then skipped, that should just be skipped, if we are skipping
<bschaefer> (like hiding the cursor)
<mdeslaur> hrm, the unity currently in trusty-proposed has a security fix in it too
<mdeslaur> that really should go through trusty-security
<sarnold> mdeslaur: hrm, based solely on the changelog description that sounds like a partial attempt to fix unity's role in 49579 -- it doesn't feel like a complete enough 'fix' to call it a security update, imho
<mdeslaur> sarnold: if it prevents the hud/dash from appearing over the lock screen in certain scenarios, sounds like a security fix to me
<sarnold> mdeslaur: hrm. I figured they'd just prevent the screen from locking at all..
<sarnold> it could be security then :) heh
<mdeslaur> sarnold: ah, yes, you're right
<mdeslaur> sarnold: actually, no, it's putting the dash _above_ the locked screen
<mdeslaur> anyone, no biggie
<mdeslaur> ok, building package now with bschaefer's merge proposal and r3789 patch for testing as security update
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, it also looks like Trevinho might have a different fix, he just got back to his laptop
 * bschaefer is testing that out atm
<mdeslaur> ok
<Trevinho> bschaefer: I mean, your changes should be there anyway, but that might force things even more
<bschaefer> Trevinho, alright sounds good
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, yeah lets push mine there a sanity check
<bschaefer> as it'll force things to be even more correct
<Trevinho> bschaefer: if you can fix the style of the first if(... (just a minor style fix, but it caught my eyes :D)
<bschaefer> opps
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: do you have an additional fix over what bschaefer<s got?
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: bschaefer is testing it, as it should avoid any view to be put over the lockscreen anyway
<bschaefer> Trevinho, dam pch files... need to recompoile
<mdeslaur> ok, I'll let you two sort it out, let me know when the final patch is available
<bschaefer> recompile*
<Trevinho> (for good, hopefully)
<bschaefer> mdeslaur, will do thanks!
 * mdeslaur shakes fist at unity building in schroot killing his keyboard layout
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-29
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: I've used another approach here https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/lockscreen-keys-disable/+merge/217528
<sarnold> Trevinho: that looks to me like it modifies some of the code you added recently to ensure it re-starts locked if it dies while locked -- does it still lock in that case?
<Trevinho> sarnold: sure
<Trevinho> sarnold: it just gets called in another cb function
<Trevinho> sarnold: I could keep the old one, but duplicating the callbacks wasn't the nicest thing
<sarnold> Trevinho: excellent :) thanks for reassuring me :)
<bschaefer> looks good, and is way better then my branch
 * bschaefer goes to reject his
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: thanks!
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: if there are not other issues, I'm going to bed... That branch should be enough
<Mirv> morning
<Laney> hey!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> lut seb128
<seb128> Laney, howdy, how are you?
 * seb128 shakes fist at xnox
<Laney> very good thanks! and you?
<seb128> xnox, could you please stop uploading without considering the packaging vcs-es?
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks ;-)
<Laney> naughty xnox
<seb128> especially that in this case he stepped over a version already used for a SRU
<seb128> which made the SRU be rejected after a week of waiting in the queue
<seb128> *great*
<mlankhorst> so touch can corrupt xorg-server :P
<mlankhorst> anyone here with a touchscreen and some interest in valgrind?
<seb128> well, no special "interest" but I can probably help getting debug info
<mlankhorst> yeah just spawning xorg-server + a unity session and reproducing bug 1311828 and bug 1298727 is enough.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1311828 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311828
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1298727 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in point_on_screen()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298727
<mlankhorst> something like "/usr/bin/valgrind --keep-stacktraces=alloc-and-free --show-reachable=yes --track-fds=yes --leak-check=full --error-limit=no --freelist-vol=50000000 --freelist-big-blocks=10000 --track-origins=yes --leak-resolution=high --malloc-fill=ef --free-fill=df /usr/bin/Xorg "$@" -core -verbose 10"
<mlankhorst> and install xserver.*dbg$
<seb128> k, I'm trying to do that in a bit, need to update my test config first, install valgrind, dbgs, etc and see if I can reproduce the bug
<seb128> where do you put that command? do you replace the X binary by that or..?
<mlankhorst> that's one way to do it :P
<mlankhorst> I created an /etc/X11/X2 shellscript, and symlinked /etc/X11/X to it (that file must be a symlink or X won't start)
<mlankhorst> http://paste.debian.net/96346/ my /etc/X22/X2
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> x22!
<mlankhorst> oops :P
<mlankhorst> oh and probably the dbg files for libdrm.*dbg$ and libpixman.*dbg$
<xnox> seb128: argh, sorry. which package did i step over like that?
<seb128> xnox, empathy
<xnox> seb128: well, use SRU version numbers for SRUs? =)))))
<seb128> xnox, what is a SRU version?
<xnox> 3.8.6-0ubuntu9.1
<xnox> as per SRU docs...
<seb128> xnox, that wouldn't have changed the fact that the vcs had work to be uploaded that should have been included in that upload, instead of doing a no change upload
<xnox> yeah, sorry.
<seb128> no worry, please be careful with desktop packages next time though, most have packaging vcs-es
<xnox> some are out of date, some are not.
<xnox> i want a way to do version numbers for rebuilds that are not reusing any other upload numbers ideally. to avoid contention.
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<ricotz> just a short question ;)
<ricotz> will utopic target gnome 3.12 or are you going straight for 3.13/14?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<ricotz> i guess the conservative approach turned out fine for you
<seb128> ricotz, we plan to discuss the topic during the meeting later today, but I can tell you for sure not going to 3.13
<seb128> I would rather ponder the "stay on 3.10"
<seb128> but realistically I think we are going to end up doing 3.12
<ricotz> alright ;)
<seb128> and yes, the "stay on stable" serves us pretty well
<ricotz> 3.12 sounds fine since there are a lot synced already too
<seb128> we didn't have too much fire fighting since we do that and quality went up
<ricotz> right ;)
<seb128> well, 3.12 synced, so things depwait on a newer gtk?
<seb128> I don't see gtk 3.12 being done/ready before some time
<ricotz> no, just some minor components which doesnt require gtk 3.12
<seb128> k, that's fine then
<ricotz> gtk 3.12 is in gnome3-staging so testing it is possible
<seb128> is that a proper update?
<Laney> with patches?
<ricotz> yes
<seb128> or another of those updates dropping the patches that were too difficult to port?
<ricotz> please just give it a short look and judge about it
<ricotz> thanks, bbl
<seb128> is there any known issue with themes or overlay scrollbar?
<Laney> does seem to have all the patches, only change is git backports
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I just compared the series
<Laney> and the other ones didn't require much updating ...
<Laney> what is this wizardry
<seb128> larsu, ^ maybe you want to have a look/try gtk 3.12 from https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+packages?field.name_filter=gtk%2B3 ?
<Laney> is this like bearing the fruits of upstreaming stuff or something :P
<seb128> there must be some runtime issues with overlay-scrollbar or something
<seb128> one gotcha is going to be the text-wrapping/dialogs I think
<seb128> but we can distro patch that out before release if needed
<Laney> yep, debian will probably do that too
<seb128> looking to the NEWS entries, that seems not a crazy cycle
<seb128> that's good news
<seb128> I'm going to try it before the meeting today
<seb128> somebody has been browsing e.u.c for lightdm issue and clicking the "create" button
 * mlankhorst pokes seb128 
<seb128> yes?
<seb128> I'm starting the test box for your issue
<seb128> sorry, got busy until now with other things
<mlankhorst> k
<mlankhorst> np  :)
<darkxst> hey seb128, Laney
<seb128> hey darkxst
<darkxst> seb128, really? staying on 3.10? as if that well happen ;)
<seb128> easiest way to avoid gtkheaderbars...
<larsu> ricotz: where do you keep the packaging branch for gtk?
<darkxst> seb128, did the entire conversation last night, just fly past you?
<darkxst> larsu, we don't have any packaging branches currently, going to look at setting that up this cycle
<larsu> darkxst: ah okay, thanks
<seb128> darkxst, which one?
<seb128> on how to handle gtkheaderbars?
<darkxst> seb128, yes, gtkheaderbars!
<seb128> or on the conflict of interest between flavors?
<seb128> but, no, none did fly past no
<darkxst> seb128, and ignoring the WN hints to get back titlebars
<darkxst> WM even
<seb128> I'm still not convinced we can make gtkheaderbar a non-regression for !gnome-shell users
<seb128> I'm not convinced that wm bar + headerbar without control is not a regression in UI over what we have
<seb128> I need to test on real cases to see how it looks/feel
<darkxst> seb128, without window controls and with titlebars its not much difference to what in archives currently
<seb128> like there is no title in the headerbar?
<darkxst> seb128, huh? you guys would have a titlebar with a *title*!
<larsu> seb128: I want to talk about this at the hackfest tomorrow
<larsu> there are two approaches for us
<larsu> (1) go csd, but with our theme
<larsu> (2) make headerbars into primary toolbars by adding a titlebar
<darkxst> larsu, upstream won't take 2, so that would have to be a distro patch
<seb128> what do you mean with (2)?
<seb128> the title issue is
<seb128> what happens to http://curiousdtu.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/gedit2.png?w=774 if we add a wm bar
<seb128> do we have "unsaved document" 3 times ?
<seb128> one in the wm bar, one in the headerbar bellow it, one in the tab?
<larsu> darkxst: I'm not so sure about that
<larsu> seb128: no, it would hide the title in the toolbar
<seb128> larsu, how would it look for apps that have only a title and a close button if we hide both
<seb128> would we get an empty headerbar?
<seb128> or would it get hidden?
<larsu> I don't know about that case
<larsu> most of the time, apps have additional buttons there
<darkxst> larsu, when I discussed with them, they seemed to think ignoring the WM hints in Unity was the way to go
<larsu> like in the screenshot you posted
<seb128> larsu, https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ixfpn57HBL8/UtbDAz_crhI/AAAAAAAAAaM/xwvAaPy8Ebc/w480-h500-k/gnome%2Bcalculator%2B3.11.3%2Bfedora%2B21%2Brawhide.png
<desrt> seb128: i think i've seen this link somewhere before ;)
<seb128> desrt, no, different one
<seb128> that's not a buggy case this time ;-)
<desrt> oh.  why do you show it, then? :)
<larsu> darkxst: who is "them"?
<seb128> just an example of headerbar with only a title and button
<seb128> desrt, ^
<seb128> desrt, because of <seb128> larsu, how would it look for apps that have only a title and a close button if we hide both
<darkxst> larsu, mclassen and co
<larsu> desrt is meaning to talk to him
<desrt> was gonna yesterday but got busy with menus
<larsu> seb128: fair point. Maybe we should hide it then
<larsu> seb128: I'm not sure (2) is the better option, and in fact desrt just mentioned some compelling reasons for (1)
<larsu> seb128: I'm still pondering and haven't thought about all of the issues
<seb128> I'm unsure what (1) mean
<seb128> is that doing what GNOME is doing?
<larsu> yes, but changing it to look more like unity
<seb128> e.g hidding the wm controls and making the theme look "native enoguh"
<seb128> right
<larsu> dark theming, different buttons etc
<larsu> ya
<seb128> my concern that we would never have perfect consistency that way
<seb128> but I'm happy to be proved wrong
<desrt> seb128: we decide to have a desktop based on five toolkits....
<desrt> we will never have perfect consistency, ever
<larsu> I'm not sure "perfect consistency" is what we should optimize for
<larsu> many apps are going that route
<larsu> for example chromium
<seb128> chromium is much better integrated than gtkheaderbars
<seb128> it even has a setting to use the name wm controls
<darkxst> and QT apps pretending to be GTK ones like USC!
<seb128> name->native
<seb128> well, one toolkit you can dream about
<seb128> but it's not going to happen
<seb128> unless you want to replace skype, eclipse, libreoffice, firefox, chrome
<seb128> and I don't see GNOME achieving that either
<darkxst> seb128, epiphany is pretty slick these days ;)
<seb128> so reality is that we have to deal with apps using different toolkits
<seb128> darkxst, if you don't care about security in your browser yes
<seb128> webkitgtk doesn't do security updates
<desrt> epiphany is great -- for webapps, with trusted sites :)
<darkxst> seb128, yes I know... that is why we still ship firefox ;(
<seb128> which is why no distro ships with epiphany as a webbrowser
<desrt> using it as a general-purpose browser is pretty much insane
<desrt> (and unusable, honestly)
<Sweetshark_gc> I hear there is a volunteer to finish the gtk3 native port of libreoffice in the channel?
<seb128> right
<seb128> Sweetshark_gc, would that be you? ;-)
<Sweetshark_gc> seb128: *cough* no?
<seb128> Sweetshark_gc, start by fixing those menus!
<Sweetshark_gc> *grumble*
<darkxst> Sweetshark, and add gtkheaderbars ;) just to annoy seb128 ;)
<seb128> larsu, but yeah "perfect consistency" might not be the goal, I would still prefer to avoid user-experience-regressions in our default apps if possible
<seb128> larsu, but solutions to that might be to patch like we did for menus
<chrisccoulson> seb128, I'd be open to someone contributing a gtk port of oxide if you want a webengine that's maintained by the security team ;)
<seb128> larsu, or to replace those apps by some "written for traditional desktops"
<seb128> larsu, e.g we might decide that e.g eog design goals are too far from ours and that we would be better served by another image viewer
<desrt> seb128: taking a step back, headerbars are an awesome step forward
<seb128> desrt, depending for who, not for app writers that want to target the different desktops
<desrt> seb128: i said to take a step back :p
<seb128> they give their users a pretty suboptimal experience
<desrt> i agree that they're not a great fit if you just drop one app into a desktop like this
<desrt> but what i'm trying to say is, honestly, i think we should try to move more toward such designs ourselves
<desrt> the issue here is only the consistency one
<desrt> (and i agree that is an issue)
<seb128> right, I agree with that
 * darkxst hands seb128 a fork ;) 
 * desrt hands seb128 a knife and a steak
 * larsu hands seb128 some red wine
<larsu> seb128: we'd have user experience regressions too if we switch apps, no?
<seb128> larsu, not especially ? if some app is better ?
<seb128> larsu, like we replaced f-spot by shotwell, I don't consider that an user regression
<seb128> it's different, it doesn't mean less integrated/less easy to use/less features
<desrt> seb128: i think the trouble is in finding high quality apps :)
<desrt> for better or worse, gnome (still) has some of the best stuff around
<larsu> seb128: I meant the confusion that comes with changing the app. But yeah, if it's much better that weighs more
<seb128> desrt, well, one possible one could be evince ->  okular for example (note that I didn't look at okular, but poppler upstream keep using it as an example of better pdf viewed than evince)
<desrt> seb128: poppler upstream are kde developers :p
<seb128> I know, okular seems to be a good pdf viewer though
<seb128> anyway no point to discuss specific examples
<desrt> specific examples are good to discuss, i think
<seb128> I'm also sure we would have no difficulty finding a decent calculator
<desrt> okular might be good
<seb128> it's not like gnome-calculator was the perfect calc
<desrt> but if we want to switch away from nautilus or something?
<seb128> we would take nemo
<desrt> scary :)
<seb128> that would give us back split view
<desrt> why not caja?
<seb128> and other stuff our users complain about loosing
<ochosi> sorry to chip in, but are you discussing moving towards headerbars?
 * larsu missed those games the last few cycles
<seb128> I don't know what caja is
<larsu> ochosi: yes
<desrt> mate-nautilus
<darkxst> ipython is a pretty good calculator ;) although probably not for thte masses ;)
<ochosi> from xubuntu POV (if that is of any concern/interest to you guys) we were rather happy about you patching out the headerbars in 14.04
<ochosi> s/xubuntu/xubuntu's/
<larsu> yeah... the problem is that that will become increasingly hard
<darkxst> ochosi, only nautilus and epiphany were patched, everything else was just avoided
<desrt> also: headerbars, in their own right, are good
<larsu> and seb128 is afraid that we'll get another patch madness like we have with menus now
<ochosi> right, that's understandable. but personally i think it'd be better to talk to upstream about providing more options for !gnome-shell desktops
<ochosi> just "dealing with what we got" is what xubuntu alone is forced to do, we're a tiny team and we have no leverage/voice
<desrt> seb128: i hate to appeal to the media, but it seems that all i hear about anymore is gnome is getting better UI and unity is getting worse...
<darkxst> ochosi, upstream did quite some work with for example allowing WM button layouts within the headerbars
<desrt> i think we should not be afraid to follow gnome on some of the improvements
<larsu> ochosi: talking to them about more options is asking them to do the work, which is a bit unreasonable
<seb128> desrt, not sure what you call "media", I didn't read anything about GNOME vs Unity for a long time and all the trusty reviews I read stated that Unity was "a polished desktop now"
<darkxst> but they are not going to make gtkheaderbars optional, and atleast in my discussions with them, they seem to think the WM should just ignore the MWN hints for decorations/titlebars
<desrt> seb128: i just searched 'ubuntu unity' and the first item that came in google news is "Ubuntu 14.04 review: Missing the boat on big changes
<seb128> desrt, is media = reddit ?
<desrt> While a new kernel should mean better performance, Canonical's UI troubles persist. "
<desrt> arstechnica in this case
<ochosi> larsu: whatever happened to the good practice of a bit of backward compatability? anyway, i understand, but i think that'd be a good thing even if patches would have to be contributed. maybe i'm too optimistic about "making a voice heard"
<ochosi> seb128: +1, i haven't read much about that either
<larsu> ochosi: voices are heard, it's just that noone has time for it
<ochosi> darkxst: yeah, but being able to disable headerbars would be more desirable. there's a lovely post by martin grÃÂ¤sslin about the shortcomings of headerbars (not being able to kill a hanging app,...)
<seb128> desrt, yeah for crappy titles
<seb128> "What's missing
<seb128> Mir and Unity 8 did not make the cut, but they will be coming eventually (14.10 looks pretty likely to see at least xMir enabled by default)"
<desrt> media on new gnome release seems to be "hey... this is finally getting really nice... too bad nobody ships it"
<seb128> desrt, so arstechnica is speaking about the LTS not having the newest kernel, Mir or unity8
<desrt> seb128: right
<seb128> but the unity part of the review is rather positive
<desrt> in general i see the biggest thing said about this release is "kinda boring... not much changes..."
<seb128> right, that's a LTS
<desrt> not much changes since last lts :p
<seb128> desrt, that review you mentioned states "Ubuntu is one of the most polished desktops around, certainly the most polished in the Linux world, "
<seb128> in the conclusion
<desrt> seb128: and the very same article, in the conclusion, talks about the mess that all of our patching has caused us :p
<seb128> they have more issues with things like nautilus dropping features, and they say it's coming from GNOME
<seb128> "what does it say that it still can't make menus behave consistently?"
<seb128> haha
<seb128> desrt, well, I don't have the same reading
<seb128> to me their issues is what I was pointing before
<seb128> design changes from GNOME
<darkxst> seb128, gnome-shell has improved in leaps and bounds since last LTS
<seb128> that are making apps no consistent
<ochosi> +1
<desrt> seb128: seems like the biggest complaint is with global menu, in fact
<desrt> but i think maybe we should stop arguing over what is written in the press
<seb128> you are the one who started it!
<seb128> but agreed
<desrt> ya
<desrt> even when i started it i knew it was a bad idea :p
<seb128> I think your view of the press is biased as well
<desrt> maybe
<desrt> but one thing that is pretty clear is that people are liking the direction of gnome
<desrt> so if they don't like how gnome apps are integrating in ubuntu then this is either an issue of integration or an issue of the patching that we've done
<seb128> desrt, I'm unsure I agree with that, some people like where GNOME is going, some hate it
<seb128> same for Unity
<darkxst> desrt, or an issue of some gnome apps being very old (think gnome-terminal)
<desrt> seb128: i think people are upset over some specific things in gnome -- i'm one of them
<desrt> but the overall design idea appears to be paying off
<seb128> I read lot of comments from user who like mint/cinnamon/elementary/xfce better than GNOME3 or Unity
<desrt> ya... of course
<desrt> i hear that some crazy people even like kde...
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I don't think GNOME is winning the "battle of minds"
<desrt> i'm just saying that if we want to continue to have gnome apps, we may want to adopt some of their new approaches
<seb128> we have more fragmention than before in anything
<desrt> they're not bad
<seb128> and I don't see a clear winner
<seb128> in->if
<desrt> and our increasingly complicated attempts to remain in the past are starting to hurt us more and more
<seb128> well
<desrt> (the past = make gnome apps look like they used to)
<darkxst> desrt, well particularly hurting Ubuntu GNOME!
<seb128> unity7/our current desktop is meant to be a "stable developer desktop"
<seb128> our innovations go to unity8
 * desrt kinda wishes gnome had this kind of focus...
<seb128> that has its own set of apps, etc
 * darkxst can't believe that some people prefer to crawl through applications menus, rather types a few letters to search for said app
<seb128> so all the problems we discuss are going to be resolved there
<seb128> the friction is on the "traditional desktop"
<darkxst> seb128, how so? unity8 will just further disjoint the "traditional desktop" people?
<desrt> darkxst: most people always had some sort of launcher icons for their favourites
<seb128> darkxst, what do you mean?
<darkxst> desrt, that is still there in gnome-shell and unity (I presume)
<seb128> darkxst, well, unity8 comes with new apps using the new toolkit, so it's going to resolve the conflict of (ab)using GNOME apps to make them match our design
<darkxst> seb128, touch apps on desktop ;)
<desrt> fwiw, i don't care too much about ubuntu gnome...
<larsu> darkxst: the idea is that those will be adjusted for desktop usage and  more laptops will have touchscreens
<desrt> my primary concern is the increasing amount of developer resource we spend on patching things...
<larsu> the question is what we do in the meantime
<larsu> which might be a couple of cycles
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, as said we basically have 2 desktops
<desrt> could maybe stop updating all gnome apps
<desrt> this is a pretty viable idea, really...
<seb128> unity7 is a "traditional" developer desktop, I don't see much design changes or innovation going there
<seb128> that's what I was sort of suggesting
<desrt> since most of the changes in gnome these days are changing to new UIs.... and then we just want to reverse those anyway
<seb128> just keep unity7 as a solid base, just fix issues
<desrt> kinda pointless
<desrt> imho this is not the right approach, but i certainly like it better than moving to new versions and then hacking their UIs halfway back to the old way
<darkxst> desrt, the entire point of Ubuntu GNOME is building a community around gnome desktop and make it work well in Ubuntu
<desrt> darkxst: i know
<darkxst> suggesting to hold everything back will just kill our project
<desrt> but i guess it's not really the concern of canonical...
<darkxst> and the potential developers that come from it ;)
<desrt> darkxst: you've elected to fight an uphill battle...
<desrt> unless we want to start forking everything (unity-nautilus, unity-evince, etc.) like we did g-s-d and g-c-c, you're faced with what is effectively a fork of gnome, trying to make it work like upstream
<darkxst> desrt, I am not going to fork upstream projects! Canonical should be forking the oldies they want to keep
<desrt> ya... maybe there is some good argument for this
<larsu> seb128: 3.12 is working fairly nicely
<desrt> we did it with g-s-d and g-c-c, after all
<larsu> seb128: first issues I'm seeing are titlebar-less dialogs
<seb128> larsu, good news!
<desrt> but then you get the burden of packaging the gnome releases
<larsu> seb128: even o-s seems to work
<seb128> \o/
<larsu> I haven't done extensive testing yet, though
<desrt> this makes me very happy
<desrt> it would have been extremely bad news if we would have had to get rid of o-s
<seb128> desrt, if we are going down to "fork" we can as well share the fork, and use e.g nemo...
<desrt> or caja
<desrt> take a look at mate, seriously...
<desrt> it's basically like releasing old versions of gnome :p
<seb128> heh
<desrt> just keep updating the libraries -- this is all most people care about
<desrt> "developers", after all
<larsu> desrt: it's what you care about
<desrt> larsu: in so far as i care about people like yorba who care about things like which libraries are available on ubuntu
<larsu> desrt: they also care about what kind of ui and platform integration we have
<larsu> and it's a pain to support more than one for them
<desrt> larsu: ya... but we can keep this looking OK by staying with old versions
<larsu> man, why are we talking on irc?
<larsu> I can even see your irc window from here
<desrt> because we're not red hat ;)
<larsu> haha
<seb128> desrt, larsu: anyway, to focus back the discussion
<seb128> let's make GtkHeaderBar work as good as we can on !gnome-shell (Unity being the main focus)
<seb128> that's the first step
<desrt> this sounds good
<seb128> once we think we have "as good as we can get", we can see how apps feel like
<seb128> and then decide on the next steps for those
<seb128> like if we feel gtkheaderbar are integrated enough
<seb128> or if we need to get out of our way to resolve extra issues
<larsu> seb128: what do you mean by that? My suggestion (1) or (2) from earlier?
<desrt> there are a few things that are needed to get it working right... but not majorly huge ones
<larsu> (make them look native in unity or make them be toolbarS)
<seb128> larsu, I'm sure, whichever you feel like is going to give us the best experience on Unity
<seb128> *unsure*
<desrt> sounds like we have some work for the coming days
<larsu> ya, this is my main goal for the hackfest
<seb128> great
<larsu> seb128: interesting. I'm unsure as well :)
<seb128> sorry for all the side discussions
<larsu> no worries
<alkisg> attente: hi, could I bother you a bit about http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/437.1.10, and in particular about these lines?
<alkisg> 344+Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifÂ (n_sourcesÂ <Â 2Â ||Â g_strcmp0Â (g_getenvÂ ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"),Â "Unity")Â ==Â 0)
<alkisg> 345Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â strip_xkb_optionÂ (options,Â "grp:");
<alkisg> These lines break keyboard layout switching in applications that grab the keyboard, like SDL applications, so we cannot type e.g. Greek in e.g. tuxpaint, tuxtype, teeworlds etc.
<alkisg> See also e.g. my comment #7 in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42244
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 42244 in Server/Input/Core "Multimedia keys become unresponsive in full-screen applications" [Normal,Reopened]
<alkisg> (it's not only about multimedia keys anymore, now it's significantly more important, all those applications become useless for non-latin environments)
<attente> alkisg, we disabled it because layout switching is done differently in unity and we didn't want xkb switching to conflict with that
<alkisg> attente: and, is there any provision for the issue I mentioned?
<alkisg> Because I don't think you'll be able to allow keyboard switching without letting xkb manage it...
<alkisg> (in apps that grab the keyboard)
<seb128> alkisg, no, I think it's one of those GNOME design decisions where you are going to need to wait for wayland/Mir to have it working back correctly
<alkisg> seb128: in Fedora they have it working like I mentioned
<alkisg> It's an ubuntu-specific patch
<attente> alkisg, sorry, i'm reading the bug report, but not really sure how the grp: option is related
<seb128> alkisg, the freedesktop bug states "(It's the same in other distros too, it's not Ubuntu specific)"
<alkisg> seb128: there are many many bugs about it, it's a lot more than this one,
<seb128> alkisg, also the xorg grabbing is nothing Ubuntu specific
<alkisg> ...I'll probably need to describe it better
<seb128> alkisg, overstatement like that don't help, can you just focus on the issues?
<alkisg> So, there are many issues wrt keyboard, switching etc, I'll ignore them for now and only focus on the issue I described above,
<alkisg> i.e., how to switch layouts when unity-settings-daemon can't get an event because of the keyboard grab
<seb128> alkisg, GNOME stopped using xserver group switching in favor of grabbing in the shell and doing changes themself from there
<seb128> we do the same in Unity now
<alkisg> seb128: I've been talking with upstream gnome for the past 3 days
<seb128> and?
<alkisg> The issue I'm mentioning right now, is ubuntu-specific
<alkisg> ...but, you are right in what you say,
<seb128> do you use Unity?
<alkisg> and that causes a few other issues, like e.g. that when I use xkb to switch layouts, the indicators don't get updated
<seb128> or gnome fallback?
<alkisg> I tried in Unity, Gnome-fallback, gnome-shell etc
<seb128> they all have the issue?
<alkisg> The first two, but, if I launch unity-settings-daemon with a different XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP, then fallback works two, and I imagine unity will too, I haven't tried that there
<alkisg> So, I'm trying to see why that thing was added, in order to help patching it elsewhere
<seb128> hum
<alkisg> That one: ||Â g_strcmp0Â (g_getenvÂ ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"),Â "Unity")Â ==Â 0)
<seb128> what you said doesn't make mutch sense
<seb128> the old way was to let g-s-d/u-s-d do the grabbing
<alkisg> setxkbmap -query, says: options:    grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll
<seb128> in Unity session compiz is grabbing the keys
<seb128> same as gnome-shell is doing
<seb128> so technically compiz/Unity sessions should behave the same as gnome-shell
<alkisg> That's the correct thing to have. But, that part of the code, strips the alt_shift_toggle, and we can't switch locale in e.g. tuxtype anymore
<alkisg> Yes, I don't mind that part
<seb128> or did they apply some fixes in newer version we didn't backport/do something different?
<alkisg> It does cause issues, but other issues, not what I'm trying to describe
<alkisg> (02:19:45 Î¼Î¼) seb128: in Unity session compiz is grabbing the keys => I.e. I'm not asking to remove that,
<alkisg> I'm only asking to allow xkb have a layout switching shortcut as well
<alkisg> Same as gnome-shell does
<seb128> hum?
<seb128> the stripping is done by g-s-d
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=fc3676f0457789307e49d7abbf8115457a25e479
<seb128> same upstream
<seb128> is that commit your issue?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> I can solve my issue just by running: XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Gnome unity-settings-daemon --replace &
<seb128> well, that makes u-s-d do the grabbing again
<alkisg> I.e. just by omitting the debian/patches/unity-modifier-media-keys.patch
<seb128> instead of using the compositor
<alkisg> seb128: see that one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/437.1.10
<alkisg> 344+Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifÂ (n_sourcesÂ <Â 2Â ||Â g_strcmp0Â (g_getenvÂ ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"),Â "Unity")Â ==Â 0)
<alkisg> The || part is Ubuntu-specific
<alkisg> In upstream it's plain (n_sources < 2)
<alkisg> That's what I'm asking to revert to what it is in upstream
<alkisg> It's the same in unity-settings-daemon too
<seb128> that doesn't make sense
<seb128> oh
<alkisg> It says, "remove the grp: if we're running Unity"
<seb128> attente, is that supposed to be a && ?
<attente> seb128, should be an ||
<attente> seb128, alkisg, not sure what the consequences of removing it are
<attente> alkisg, have you tested without it?
<seb128> why did we add it?
<alkisg> attente: I only tried with gnome-fallback and XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Gnome unity-settings-daemon --replace &, then I came here to ask about why it was added, to see what to test or find other workarounds for them... :)
<attente> seb128, i added it because i didn't want xkb to switch layouts when unity+u-s-d were already handling it
<alkisg> Let me say some related things:
<attente> but if it's inconsequential and only fixes things, then i'm all for removing it
<darkxst> alkisg, XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Gnome is not correct, you are just getting nothing behaviour with that
<mdeslaur> seb128: hi! yes, I'll apply the fix on top of the SRU
<alkisg> darkxst: I just wanted to skip the "|| Unity" check
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, thanks!
<alkisg> To switch from us,gr, I'm using either (1) Win+Space, the gnome/unity defined shortcut, or (2) Alt+Shift, the XKB-defined shortcut.
<seb128> alkisg, that leads to the issue you described though "if you cycle using xkb, the indicator is wrong"?
<darkxst> alkisg, its XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME
<alkisg> seb128: right, but I don't know how, it's solved in Fedora 20
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks! Sorry for the mail, but I was going Eod and wanted you to see it before I got back
<seb128> mdeslaur, no worry, emails are good, please keep sending some in such cases ;-)
<alkisg> I'll try to locate that after we agree on the first one, i.e. that keyboard switching in fullscreen applications is too important to drop
<seb128> alkisg, so how do users configure/known about alt-shift?
<seb128> isn't that confusing?
<seb128> shouldn't win-space work in all cases?
<alkisg> It's the default in xorg, when choosing "greek" in ubiquity
<seb128> (though I guess it can't due to the xorg grabs limitation)
<alkisg> And it affects the console too
<seb128> you happen to know about it
<alkisg> So, the gnome solution isn't really good, it breaks a lot of stuff
<seb128> but it's not displayed in the UI
<alkisg> $ grep OPTIONS /etc/default/keyboard
<alkisg> XKBOPTIONS="grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll"
<xnox> seb128: i've just commented on bug #1242572 ubiquity sets up alt+shift for layout switching, since console-setup does not support super+space combo yet.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1242572 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Ubiquity sets Alt+Shift shortcut for layout switching, while installed system uses Super+Space" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242572
<seb128> xnox, ok
<xnox> i'm going to send a bug report to debian to start supporting super+space which is modern universal layout switcher.
<alkisg> So when xorg starts, it starts with Alt+Shift. Then, Gnome also adds Win+Space. Then, unity-settings-daemon blocks Alt+Shift, and that last part is what I'm trying to get fixed first.
<xnox> alkisg: is XKBOPTIONS something Xorg parsers?
<seb128> alkisg, so you get 2 different keybindings doing the same thing through different mechanism, isn't that confusing?
<alkisg> Yes
<xnox> alkisg: and if yes, then what's the combo for super_space? or a list of all supported combos?
<alkisg> seb128: people don't yet know Super+Space, it's a new thing
<xnox> alkisg: super+space is default in unity, gnome3, windows7&8, mac os x.
<alkisg> From the windows world, up to windows vista it was Alt+Shift, same as in xorg,
<seb128> alkisg, people do know about super-space, that's what other OSes use (e.g win or macOS) and that's what is displayed in the settings UI
<alkisg> And I think in windows 7/8 (I don't use them), the started Win+Space
<seb128> right
<alkisg> So, to sum up:
<alkisg> Gnome broke the ability to get notified from xkb when I switch layouts in fullscreen apps, and doesn't want patches about that.
<alkisg> I.e. in fedora 20, in tuxtype, I can press alt+shift to switch languages, but when I exit, the indicator doesn't get updated
<alkisg> *didn't
<alkisg> That the _only_ part that doesn't work OK in fedora 20, everything else is fine. It's pretty minor.
<alkisg> I can press alt+shift OR win+space and change layout while in gnome-shell. They both make the indicator update itself
<seb128> alkisg, alt-shift is a leftover not exposed in an user visible way, you just happen to know about it it seems
<alkisg> In ubuntu, even if I manage to get the alt_shift_toggle back, the indicator doesn't get updated. That's my second thing I want to help solve.
<alkisg> seb128: me and everyone that has been using it for the last 20 years... :)
<alkisg> We don't know about Win+Space... that's the new thing
<alkisg> And, it doesn't work in tuxtype, we're not able to type Greek there in 14.04, while we were able to in 12.04
<seb128> alkisg, sorry to tell you that, but you are a minority
<alkisg> seb128: I'm talking about *all* Greeks
<alkisg> And possibly many other countries
<seb128> alkisg, there are more users of win7/8/macOS/unity/gnome-shell than users of 20 years old unix
<seb128> alkisg, I'm speaking about not knowing super-space
<alkisg> seb128: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
<xnox> seb128: reading man xkeyboard-config there is no support for grp:lwin_space_toggle =(
<alkisg> None of the schools there has anything newer than windows xp
<alkisg> 1000+ schools, multiply with a few labs each...
<attente> so are the full screen applications doing a full active grab of the keyboard?
<seb128> attente, seems they do
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> seb128: I don't mind about alt+shift or win+space. What I mind about more is, being able to type greek in tuxpaint/tuxtype/etc etc
<seb128> alkisg, anyway that discussion about people not knowing super-space is not useful, please just stop assuming that's true/important
<seb128> alkisg, right
<seb128> alkisg, so please stop trying to make a case against the keybinding ;-)
<alkisg> The window manager can't help there, it can't see the switch event
<alkisg> I wan't, sorry if it sounded like I started that part...
<alkisg> *wasn't
<seb128> no worry
<attente> i do wonder what happens if we remove that condition and just try what upstream does
<seb128> do you know if there is a bug in launchpad for the tux issue?
<attente> sounds racy
<alkisg> attente: I think we'll get bug reports about "alt+shift doesn't update the indicator", which is the second more significant thing that I'd like to work on
<seb128> in which way?
<seb128> well, ideally we wouldn't have 2 ways
<alkisg> attente: It does work in Fedora though, so I'm confident there's some solution there provided upstream...
<seb128> but it seems like due to xorg it's either the group cycle workaround to let those users to have a way to cycle
<seb128> or nothing
<alkisg> seb128: fedora does have 2 ways too
<seb128> right
<alkisg> And, console will have alt+shift for some time...
<seb128> due to xorg I guess
<alkisg> Right
<seb128> ideally we would have 1 channel
<seb128> working for everything
<seb128> I guess the gnome-shell indicator listen for the xorg grp changes and react to them to update its config or something
<seb128> attente, is indicator-keyboard doing that?
<alkisg> No, it isn't, I tried it
<alkisg> It's listening for a gsettings change
<alkisg> /org/gnome/desktop/input-sources/current
<attente> yeah, alkisg is right
<seb128> which means that if we remove that u-s-d condition, we would create issues for users for hit alt-shift
<seb128> like some could do it without noticing
<alkisg> Create some, solve some
<seb128> and get an invalid keymap
<seb128> or at least not matching the indicator
<alkisg> The ones solved are more important. And I'm confident the others can be solved as well.
<seb128> not sure they are more important
<xnox> mlankhorst: can xkeyboard-config support something like "grp:lwin_space_toggle" ? as in "switch keyboard layouts using Super + Space" ? This is for bug #1242572
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1242572 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu Trusty) "xkeyboard-config, console-setup, and ubiquity should use Super+Space for switching keyboard layouts" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242572
<seb128> alkisg, what happen if you switch to greek before starting the game? you can then input in greek?
<mlankhorst> xnox: no idea, what happens when you try?
<alkisg> seb128: yes. Well, in some other cases, like teeworlds, I can't play the game, because it expects a latin "a" for left, instead of a greek "Î±"
<alkisg> seb128: this also works: sleep 20 && dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 --dest=org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Keyboard /org/gnome/SettingsDaemon/Keyboard org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Keyboard.SetInputSource uint32:1 & tuxpaint --fullscreen
<alkisg> I.e. it changes the layout while inside the fullscreen app
<seb128> right
<seb128> well the issue is that the game grabs the keyboard
<alkisg> Right
<seb128> so you super-space doesn't reach compiz anymore
<seb128> I don't see a way around using the xorg cycling while we use X
<alkisg> That's a xorg limitation; the problem is that gnome, window managers etc, haven't thought that limitation when designing the new way to manage layouts
<seb128> it's not they didn't
<seb128> it's that they designed a clean architecture, that is going to work fine for wayland
<alkisg> But anyway that's an upstream decision, no point in discussing it here unless we want to carry a patch that translates xkb events => gsettings
<alkisg> They're using backends
<alkisg> xkb is one of the backends
<alkisg> xkb provides a hook
<alkisg> They just chose not to allow other implementations change the layout, and use that hook to get notified
<alkisg> They decided that only gnome would use xkb...
<alkisg> Anyway, not what we should be talking about
<attente> alkisg, it would also depend on what keyboard layout they start the application with too
<alkisg> So, what do we do now?
<attente> alkisg, if the user starts with a US layout, then they still won't be able to switch to the Greek layout because it won't exist in the user's layouts
<xnox> mlankhorst: good point. i wonder how to test it without settings-daemon/compiz/etal getting in the way.
<alkisg> Is the "can't type greek inside fullscreen apps" enough of a problem, to drop the "|| desktop=unity" code above?
<seb128> alkisg, it's enough of a problem to deserve being resolved, we are unsure that dropping the code is the best way to resolve it (yet)
<alkisg> OK, let's see what issues that would cause
<alkisg> 1) 2 ways to change layouts
<alkisg> That the same in fedora, and I think also in windows
<attente> seb128, alkisg, we might be able to do it, but we also need to add a bit of code to unity to handle the ISO_Next_Group key code
<alkisg> Let me check in windows...
<attente> alkisg, but that still won't solve the problem if the user starts the app in US
<alkisg> attente: it will
<alkisg> Windows 7 doesn't support win+space, only alt+shift
<attente> alkisg, switch to a US layout, then try 'setxkbmap -query'
<alkisg> attente: with xorg, we never switch layouts, it's always "us,gr"
<alkisg> We switch... I don't know the terminology... the active set?
<alkisg> The xprop never gets updated
<attente> alkisg, is unity-settings-daemon not running for you?
<attente> unity-settings-daemon overrides the layouts lists when the input source is changed
<alkisg> If I change that with win+space, then it gets to  "gr,us"
 * alkisg tries to say that better: with xorg, it's always: "us,gr". with gnome, it's: "us,gr" or "gr,us"
<alkisg> It's never plain "us"
<attente> alkisg, what i'm seeing now is not the same
<attente> if i'm using unity-control-center, adding us and gr, then switch to us, i only see us when i call setxkbmap
<mlankhorst> xnox: murder them :D
<mlankhorst> or run a diff flavor
<attente> alkisg, because every time u-s-d switches input sources, it uploads a new xkb configuration
<alkisg> attente: it does, and it's "us,gr" or "gr,us"... now I'm with gnome-fallback, want me to switch to unity?
<xnox> mlankhorst: oh does like xubuntu/lubuntu actually use X to switch layouts? I've tried $ startx gedit, and i can't switch keyboard layout in it.
<attente> alkisg, i'm using unity and that's what's happening for me
<mlankhorst> xnox: not sure
<attente> alkisg, please try it :)
<alkisg> attente: ah. There's also a note in the input-sources schema, let me find it...
<attente> although i don't really understand why it wouldn't be the same, isn't unity-settings-daemon also running under gnome-fallback?
<alkisg> It is
<alkisg> attente: what's the output of this? gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.input-sources sources
<alkisg> [('xkb', 'us'), ('xkb', 'gr')] for me
<attente> anyways, we can try to remove it, but we do need to add something to unity
<attente> alkisg, [('xkb', 'us'), ('xkb', 'gr')]
<attente> and switching to 'us' results in only 'us' for the xkb configuration
<alkisg> attente: do you have ibus running?
<alkisg> If so, could you stop it?
<alkisg> That's another bug, it shouldn't be running at all, but that's for upstream im-config...
<alkisg> Tooo many keyboard-related bugs in the 12.04 => 14.04 transision.. :(
<attente> alkisg, killing ibus doesn't change what i'm seeing
<alkisg> OK give me a few minutes to test with unity
<attente> ok
<alkisg> But, I think that the implementation parts are the details, if we could agree first on what we want to do, I'm pretty sure we could provide patches for that.
<alkisg> What I'd like to do, is make Ubuntu 14.04 do what Fedora 20 does, which isn't perfect like Ubuntu <= 12.04 was, but it's good enough. Everything works, even the indicator gets updated when I press alt+shift, and the only minor detail that doesn't work is that the indicator doesn't get updated while I'm inside a full screen app that grabs the keyboard
<alkisg> If we could agree that we want to accept patches in that direction, I'm pretty sure it's implementable without diverting from upstream
 * alkisg checks unity...
<seb128> the goal sounds fine yes
<attente> so remove the condition from u-s-d, handle ISO_Next_Group in unity, then maybe upload a secondary layout in u-s-d?
<attente> sounds like it should be ok
<alkisg> attente: if you have patches for that, I'd be more than glad to extensively test them :)
<attente> alkisg, sure :)
<attente> actually... i guess it's all u-s-d
<xnox> mlankhorst: so i've definately tested xorg now, stopped lightdm / quit all unity sessions, did "startx", launched terminal, kill all gnome/unity-settings-deamons, then use setxkbmap to get russian and usa layout.
<xnox> mlankhorst: lwin_space_toggle, win_space_toggle do not work, win_toggle does work.
<attente> alkisg, have you checked setxkbmap under unity?
<xnox> mlankhorst: so yeah, x clearly does not support super_space here.
<mlankhorst> seems so :P
<xnox> mlankhorst: can you forward that bug upstream? or should I file it somewhere?
<alkisg> attente: I'm creating a livecd, because I've changed my system too much to be sure that it's clean...
<mlankhorst> but does it work with unity?
<xnox> mlankhorst: with unity - either gnome-settings-daemon or unity-settings-daemon or ibus or compiz intercept "super+space" and switch layouts.
<xnox> mlankhorst: however this does not work e.g. in full-screen x apps, etc. as widely discussed above.
<attente> alkisg, it's ok, no matter. i already know that it doesn't work on my machine, so that's something else to fix
<mlankhorst> xnox: ok
<xnox> mlankhorst: registering in the freedesktop bugzilla to open a bug report.
<xnox> mlankhorst: filed https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78076
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 78076 in General "Please add support for grp:lwin_space_toggle and similar" [Enhancement,New]
<xnox> mlankhorst: would you write a patch for that? :-)
<Laney> attente: check these beasts crushing hard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAB9-VGIkzM
<mdeslaur> Trevinho, seb128: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2184-1/
<mdeslaur> Trevinho, seb128: thanks! :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks!
<alkisg> Thank you very much guys, I'll be back later on to try to help as much as I can. :)
<mlankhorst> xnox: suddenly everyone wants something from me :P
<seb128> work_alkisg, thanks for pointing those issues and helping getting them resolved!
<attente> Laney, impressed to see any free soloing ;)
<Laney> definitely bouldering opportunities in malta btw ;-)
<Laney> (including DWS...)
<attente> sounds fun :)
<Laney> scary
<xnox> mlankhorst: how would like to be bribed? =)
<mlankhorst> ok lets see..
<mlankhorst> xnox: looks like it should be fixable easily :P
<mlankhorst> copy alt_space_toggle I guess
<mlankhorst> hm no slightly more involved
<xnox> Laney: with updated gnome-keyring job, it appears as if launchpadlib based things (e.g. like any ubuntu-archive / ubuntu-dev-tools scripts) fail to work, time out activating secrets api and fail to store lp token in the keyring.
<xnox> Laney: have you noticed this?
<Laney> no I use those inside lxc
<Laney> lemme try
<Laney> xnox: yeah ...
<Laney> that's supposed to be dbus activated
<Laney> xnox: I think it's because it's not on the user's bus
<xnox> Laney: so gnome-keyring must start on started dbus?
<Laney> try it, that made it work for me
<Laney> then we get back to gpg/ssh ordering problems again
<xnox> yeah it's racing with dbus job which is starting on xsession-init.
<xnox> do we? i thought we wouldn't. gpg-/ssh- agents will not start, until gnome-keyring completes even if it's blocked by dbus not started yet.
 * xnox will add sleeps to simulate blockage.
<Laney> oh, you mean that started dbus and <what we have now> will work?
<xnox> yeah.
<xnox> "started dbus and (<what we have>)"
<xnox> that's what i'm testing here now.
<Laney> k
<Laney> lunch!
<Laney> i'm thinking fried eggs
<mlankhorst> xnox: is it ok if both super keys work? :P
<xnox> mlankhorst: yes, that's even better cause that's how it currently works under gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> mlankhorst, is http://paste.ubuntu.com/7359309/ having what you need?
<mlankhorst> looks good, but  grr @ xf86platformVTProbe crap
<mlankhorst> xnox: I have no idea what I'm doing, so here it is http://paste.debian.net/96403/ :P
<mlankhorst> will probably break or something
<xnox> mlankhorst: let me test it =)
<mlankhorst> or fail to load
<xnox> mlankhorst: better that, than the experimental efibootmgr i'm about to test.
<xnox> mlankhorst: edit comments "toggle using lwin + space as combo" to say it's "win + space", not "lwin + space".
<seb128> mlankhorst, do you want me to copy that somewhere, or are you going to send to upstream/to whatever bug you use for the issue?
<mlankhorst> seb128: nah just checking at this point, going to need hardware first to do a bisect
<seb128> k
<seb128> the valgrind error/bt are not enough for upstream to have a clue?
<mlankhorst> no they can reproduce that already
<seb128> so they should be able to fix it?
<mlankhorst> oh that vt probe bug I already fixed in utopic
<mlankhorst> but the deliveremulatedmotionevent looks weird
<seb128> the log has another error from the touch
<mlankhorst> yeah looking at that, seems weird
<mlankhorst> it shouldn't be called beyond end of the event queue, so the bug is not in EnqueueEvent, I think.
<xnox> mlankhorst: loads correctly, does not work. space acts like a space, instead of "win+space" combo.
<xnox> (when pressing simultaniously or holding down windows key and then pressing spacebar)
<xnox> let me just try one more time, just in case.
<mlankhorst> hm was afraid of that :P
<mlankhorst> xnox: what if you load meta_win too?
<xnox> altwin:meta_win ?
<xnox> mlankhorst: loading: setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout us,ru -option grp:win_space_toggle,altwin:meta_win
<xnox> makes windows+space not produce a " ", but it doesn't change layout either.
<mlankhorst> hm
<mlankhorst> I guess the mod4 should be Meta
<xnox> oh, loading altwin:meta_win rmeoves win_space_toggle.
<mlankhorst> ok, can you try the patch with Mod4 changed to Meta ?
<xnox> mlankhorst: ok.
<mlankhorst> I think the altwin one should no longer be needed then
<xnox> mlankhorst: doesn't work, with or without.
<mlankhorst> gr, stupid xkb-data defining a whole language
<mlankhorst> xnox: http://paste.debian.net/96410/
<xnox> mlankhorst: i wonder if all my tests are flawed, since i'm running them under compiz and e.g. Super+S does compiz wall thing.
<xnox> *sigh*
<xnox> still no.
<mlankhorst> :/
<mlankhorst> well I have no clue anyway, just guessing based on the syntax from xkb-data
<xnox> i'll try again later in something more basic, like lubuntu.
<mlankhorst> try a raw xserver + xev
<mdeslaur> seb128: I need a bit of help...
<mdeslaur> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.13.10/revision/282
<mdeslaur> seb128: that causes unity-greeter to segfault, and I can<t seem to figure out why
<larsu> mdeslaur: do you have a backtrace?
<mdeslaur> larsu: not yet, I haven't figured out how to get one from the greeter
<mdeslaur> seb128: hrm, this work though (but is a hack...) http://paste.ubuntu.com/7359767/
<larsu> mdeslaur: that also removes functionality....
<mdeslaur> larsu: oh?
<larsu> mdeslaur: you unsetting an action that is referenced by the menu item. charles will know what it does exactly
<mdeslaur> larsu: I added the else, the old code simply didn:t set activation-action
<mdeslaur> charles: could you take a look?
<larsu> mdeslaur: ah right, I misread. Probably a bug in the menu item itself then (which is in lp:ido)
<charles> mdeslaur, sure
<mdeslaur> charles: for context, I'm trying to release http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.13.10/revision/282 as a security update
<mdeslaur> charles: but that commit causes the greeter to segfault
<mdeslaur> seems something doesn't like not having "activation-action" set...but I can't figure out why
<charles> mdeslaur, do you have a stacktrace?
<mdeslaur> charles: how can I get a stacktrace for unity-greeter? (that's what segfaults)
<charles> good question, I don't know. larsu?
<larsu> charles: no clue, but you should be able to reproduce it with the loader (it includes the greeter profile)
<mdeslaur> here;s my log, fwiw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7359836/
<mdeslaur> larsu: the loader?
<charles> that's a good thought
<charles> mdeslaur, install libindicator3-tools and try running "indicator-loader3 com.canonical.indicator.datetime"
<charles> and see if that crashes or ont
<mdeslaur> ok, one sec
<charles> indicator-loader3 will show you all the profiles' menus for a service
<charles> so if that crashes too, it's a quick way to get a stacktrace
<mdeslaur> oh, that<s pretty cool
<larsu> mdeslaur: rather  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-loader3 /usr/share/unity/indicators/com.canonical.indicator.datetime
<larsu> I can't reproduce it here, though
<larsu> ah, maybe because I don't have e-d-s set up
<mdeslaur> apt-get install evolution
<larsu> ya ... still can't reproduce
<mdeslaur> hrm, how do I make it load my updated package...
<Trevinho> seb128: hi
<larsu> seb128: he's out doing exersise
<larsu> *exercise
<Trevinho> larsu: ah, ok thanks
<mdeslaur> ah! got it
<larsu> can you reproduce the crash?
<mlankhorst> xnox: ?
<larsu> charles: from the rough stacktrace in mdeslaur's paste, it looks like one of the qdata is set incorrectly
<larsu> qdata uses g_data_list
<xnox> mlankhorst: moved on to debugging efibootmgr instead =)
<mdeslaur> larsu: I can, yes, by double-clicking a date in the calendar...I'm trying to get a proper backtrace now
<charles> larsu, that's plausible from the log, but at first read I don't see how we get to a qdata error from that diff -- it's not using qdata directly, nor indirectly with strings
<mdeslaur> this isn't helpful at all: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7359979/
<Laney> aww, was diffing e-d-s against the wrong left version
<larsu> charles: yes it is, it calls set_data_full for activation-action and selection-action
<Laney> "holy shit, this can be a sync?"
<mdeslaur> larsu: what calls set_data_full for activation-action?
<charles> mdeslaur, so you're getting this by applying http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.13.10/revision/282 to Saucy, yes?
<mlankhorst> seb128: I might not make the meeting, in that case: testing vt switching and filing/fixing bugs related to it. investigating some touch bugs, fixing bug 1301839, some upstream kernel work
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301839 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "AMD Radeon HD 8670A/8670M/8690M[1002:6660] Low-graphic mode with Trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301839
<mlankhorst> and bug 1313986
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313986 in linux (Ubuntu) "[GeForce 9400 GT] Nouveau driver does not work with kernel 3.13.0-24 (Ubuntu 14.04)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313986
<mdeslaur> charles: yes, and running in the greeter
<larsu> mdeslaur: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/ido/trunk.14.04/view/head:/src/idocalendarmenuitem.c#L623
<charles> mdeslaur, and using that formula you're also getting the crash in indicator-loader3?
<mdeslaur> charles: yes, I had to log into my session, update my datetime packages, kill the datetime daemon in my session, and then use indicator-loader3
<mdeslaur> charles: indicator-loader3 crashes when I select the greeter one, and then double click on a date or two
<charles> mdeslaur, ok I'll try to reproduce here
<charles> larsu, good point about set_data_full there
<charles> so you're right, we are using qdata, I wasn't thinking of ido
<charles> but the crash shows it is coming from inside libgtk, so that makes sense
<larsu> you set the qdata on a widget and the crash happens when it is destroyed
<mdeslaur> charles: fyi, I did this during testing earlier just to see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7359767/
<brookswarner> KombuchaKip - you here for Desktop meeting?
<seb128> Trevinho, hey
<Trevinho> seb128: Hi!
<Trevinho> I was wondering ... since https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/lockscreen-keys-disable/+merge/217528 is in archive trough the mdeslaur's distro patch, can we now manually sync trunk merging that?
<seb128> Trevinho, why manually? didn't you merge back when you landed it?
<seb128> Trevinho, is it still in a silo ?
<seb128> in which case you can m&c the silo
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time
<Trevinho> seb128: well, bregma is not here this week thus we (as a team) don't have any way to get a silo
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, ok, talk later
<seb128> qengho, Sweetshark_gc, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine: hey, it's meeting time!
 * Sweetshark_gc readjusts his beach towel.
<tkamppeter> seb128, can I start this time, as I have to leave earlier.
<charles> mdeslaur, which branch should I try applying that patch to, in order to re-create the crash?
<desrt> OMeetinG
<seb128> tkamppeter, sure, go ahead
<tkamppeter> - Installed Utopic on one machine for development
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.53 with several security fixes
<tkamppeter> - ghostscript: Fix to make it work when incompatible fonts are installed
<tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Suppress running HPLIP checks on non-HP printers
<tkamppeter> - HPLIP: Fix for HP OfficeJet Pro K550 which is EOL at HP.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
 * qengho grumbles.
<mdeslaur> charles: the package in saucy...I don<t think there;s a branch for it
<desrt> mdeslaur: (meeting)
<seb128> tkamppeter, did you find anyone to ping about the libspecte/ghostscript issue?
<kenvandine> hey seb128, sorry i'm in a call atm
<seb128> kenvandine, no worry, some time before your turn, or you can skip if needed
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have looked into it, it is definitely not Ghostscript, but for sure libspectre. So we have to wait for Marek Kasik to comment on the Freedesktop bug. I have commented on the LP bug.
<seb128> ok
<KombuchaKip> brookswarner: I'm here buddy. I'm always idling in here.
<seb128> tkamppeter, do you have contacts with marek? maybe you could try pinging him?
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks for looking to the issue in any case
<tkamppeter> seb128, yes, I will send an e-mail directly to him then.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> ok, next is qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Hey!
<qengho> - in-progress: Fixing the problems aura brings to chromium, one at a time: horiz
<qengho> ontal scroll, widget placement when DPI adjusted, menu sensitivity
<qengho> - to-do: tab screwwyness bug.
<qengho> - in-progress: Trying to get 34.0.1847.131 out, which should fix a few bugs. (This week's way upstream makes my life interesting: Deprecating make as build tool.)
<qengho> EOF
<KombuchaKip> seb128: If you or anybody else would like to test my upstream patch for Mozilla Thunderbird, that would be awesome. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824909
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 824909 in OS Integration "can't print .eml files - print preview remains blank" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hum, please wait for your turn ;-)
<seb128> qengho, do you know if the update fixes the "loose tabs from the session/mix order" issue?
<qengho> seb128: I don't know if it does.
<seb128> ok
<charles> mdeslaur, what command line would I use in Trusty to get the version of i-datetime that you're patching against?
<seb128> I guess it's not the only bug on your list ;-)
<seb128> charles, (we are in a meeting, please use the other channel where we moved the discussion)
<charles> ack
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, there?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Yeah man, I can imagine. Bugs galore.
<seb128> ok, he said he might not be there anymore
<seb128> his status update was
<seb128> " I might not make the meeting, in that case: testing vt switching and filing/fixing bugs related to it. investigating some touch bugs, fixing bug 1301839, some upstream kernel work
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301839 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "AMD Radeon HD 8670A/8670M/8690M[1002:6660] Low-graphic mode with Trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301839
<seb128> and bug 1313986
<seb128> "
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313986 in linux (Ubuntu) "[GeForce 9400 GT] Nouveau driver does not work with kernel 3.13.0-24 (Ubuntu 14.04)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313986
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Sweetshark_gc, you are next ;-)
<Sweetshark_gc> - LibreOffice Hackfest Las Palmas 2014 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/GranCanaria2014
<Sweetshark_gc> -- lightning talks in front of students
<Sweetshark_gc> -- wrote a unittest for writer
<Sweetshark_gc> -- investigated mail merge wizard issues, unfortunately quite a mess
<Sweetshark_gc> -- various meetings
<Sweetshark_gc> - TDF administrative stuff
<Sweetshark_gc> - various mails and coordination
<Sweetshark_gc> - now back to that LibreOffice unity menu issue :/
<Sweetshark_gc> EOF
<seb128> Sweetshark_gc, when do you fly back?
<Sweetshark_gc> next wednesday. Ill take friday of and thursday is labour day, so three more work days.
<Sweetshark_gc> I hope to find an opportunity to catch up with the aentos guys (who wrote the unity integration stuff) for dinner or something still ...
<seb128> ok
<seb128> have fun there!
<seb128> (same in France btw, thursday is off)
<Laney> :o
<seb128> good luck for the menus issue as well, let me know when you get a fix, seems like a SRU topic
<larsu> (same in Germany, but I'll be at the hackfest anyway)
<seb128> Sweetshark_gc, thanks
<seb128> Laney, your turn
<Laney> â¢ distro-info patch / discussions to not fail so hard when the info gets out of date (due to not having a codename on release day which happens every time now)
<Laney> â¢ webkit SRU / update
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer SRU / update
<Laney> â¢ apport SRU for str vs bytes bug in precise
<Laney> â¢ Update vala to 0.24 & make it the default
<Laney> â¢ Various merges and syncs from merges.u.c, including (prepared, not uploaded) cheese 3.12 with de-headerbarification patch
<Laney> â¢ Discussions / testing an upstart job for gnome-keyring to resolve the races (others please test the package in U)
<Laney> â¢ Start looking at e-d-s 3.12
<Laney> â¢ Brief systemd test, basically boots a system but my /e/n/i interfaces didn't come up :(
<Laney> â 
<Laney> oh I'm off Monday and Tuesday (to continue the holidays theme)
<seb128> Laney, I saw your cheese patches got commited upstream, good job ;-)
<Laney> ya, amigadave is a good guy
<seb128> Laney, the 1st is not a bank holiday in the u.k?
<Laney> no
<Laney> monday is though
<ogra_> weirdos
<ogra_> :P
<Laney> 'early may bank holiday'
<seb128> k
<seb128> enjoy that one ;-)
<ogra_> go with the rest of the world :)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> desrt, your turn
<desrt> hihi
<desrt> in berlin this week for the gtk hackfest
<Laney> they moved it from may 1st, don't know why (some places like schools have festivities on that day anyway)
<desrt> did some work on adding support for horizontal rows of buttons in gmenumodel -- made sure we have a good fallback for if we try to display it in a normal menu
<desrt> (ie: we make it as a section with a hint -- if we don't support the hint, we will just display the items normally)
<desrt> did some work on better reporting of invalid dbus messages (due to bugs in gmenumodel client that were crashing hud)
<desrt> also added support for Implements= in gdesktopappinfo
<desrt> the usual bug fixing, etc.
<desrt> oh... spent some time looking into the issues about headerbar/csd and resizing under compiz
<desrt> this stuff is pretty complicated, but there is at least a partial gtk bug here... but it has nothing to do with the resizing
<desrt> it seems that compiz doesn't support resize on windows with borders but no headerbar.... and that's a really really old hint that we ought to support
<desrt> Trevinho: i think you said you might be able to help here?
<desrt> maybe not.  that's all.
<seb128> let's keep the discussion with Trevinho as an after meeting topic
<Trevinho> desrt: yes, it's all in unity's DecoratedWindow code
<seb128> I would like to discuss a bit GTK/GNOME updates at the end of the meeting anyway
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<larsu> update all the things \o/
<desrt> larsu: s/all/ALL/
<larsu> not that many...
<Laney> I already almost typoed a couple of times
<attente> seb128, hi
<Laney> luckily I typoed ppa:laney/u-merges instead of ubuntu
<desrt> Laney is fishing for beer in malta...
<Laney> baa
 * larsu would definitely chime in on beer for Laney
<attente> i spent more time debugging eclipse menus, uploaded to a ppa
<larsu> *chip in
<attente> also looked into non-latin shortcuts for java/inkscape/blender
<attente> i uploaded that to a ppa, but it breaks keyboard layout switching under gnome-shell, and causes regressions under unity if the layout switcher is set to shift
<seb128> do you need more testers for some of those?
<larsu> some russian testers?
<attente> i think the eclipse fix is ok, but really need to figure out what's happening for the non-latin shortcuts
<desrt> attente: gtk does some internal mapping to figure out the equivalent latin code
<desrt> depending on the set of all installed keymaps
<desrt> i had to track this down back in the day when i wrote that altgrabber stuff...
<attente> desrt, yeah
<attente> but this is for java/inkscape/blender
<attente> which are all assuming a latin keyboard group 0
<desrt> so even if you're in english mode your hebrew shortcuts will work for menus written in hebrew, based on which physical key you press
<seb128> same issue as libreoffice?
<attente> seb128, yes
<seb128> shrug
<desrt> ah.  tricky.
<seb128> some days I hate those GNOME changes
<attente> so i just swapped the order
<attente> in u-s-d and g-s-d
<seb128> things were much easier/robust when we were using xkb
<attente> in g-s-d this works, but breaks the xkb grp: option
<desrt> seb128: you only hate gnome changes on _some_ days? :)
<larsu> only on days ending in '-day'
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> larsu: and wednesday
<attente> in u-s-d this works, unless you set your switching shortcut to left shift right shift, or both
<seb128> shift+something you mean?
<attente> seb128, well. to be more accurate, it causes a regression where you cannot type capital letters in the non-latin layout
<seb128> that seems annoying indeed
<attente> ppa is here: https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/java-non-latin-shortcuts
<seb128> in the libreoffice bug Rui (the GNOME guy who did the changes) basically said that libreoffice needs to be "fixed" to not assume that group 0 is a latin keyboard
<seb128> so might be that we need to "fix" java as well?
<attente> i think that's unrealistic to patch every package doing this
<seb128> attente, what's the approach you are taking to try to make it work?
<seb128> right, I think so too
<attente> seb128, basically reversing the order as set by g/u-s-d
<seb128> which is why I'm unhappy about those GNOME changes :/
<seb128> to have a latin back in group 0?
<attente> so instead of ru,us, you get us,ru
<attente> seb128, yes
<seb128> why does that create issues for shift?
<attente> if you set your keyboard layout switcher to shift
<desrt> maybe details for later?
<attente> unity grabs that so that it can do a modifier-only grab on shift-<random character>
<larsu> +1
<seb128> yes, I was starting thinkg that
<attente> yeah...
<attente> sorry
<seb128> no worry, I'm asking for some details because we have everybody around
<seb128> which includes desrt
<larsu> right
<seb128> but I guess we can discuss that again later
<seb128> attente, thanks
<desrt> LARSU
<desrt> GO!
<seb128> larsu, your turn
 * larsu doesn't listen to anyone but seb128 
<larsu> oh. shit.
<seb128> lol
<larsu> it was a bug fixing week again
<larsu> some minor evince issues (some accels stopped working after the gmenu port)
<larsu> some playing around with the sound widgets in ido
<larsu> which is getting SRUed
<seb128> did you stack those evince fixes/did them in the same branch btw?
<desrt> larsu: we're getting a slider in upstream gmenumodel soon.  i'd like your input there.
<seb128> I've those on my list of things to look at/land
<larsu> seb128: no, they're in different branches but should be fairly independent
<larsu> let me know if they don't merge cleanly
<seb128> ok, good
<larsu> desrt: yes, let's talk about that later though
<desrt> ofc
<larsu> also, gmenumodel was crahsing for the hud when the hud sent invalid dbus messages to it
<larsu> I added some input validation checks
<larsu> (desrt was talking about this too, he added g_dbus_warning() for this reason)
<desrt> larsu: if you review g_dbus_warning() i'll review your stuff that uses it :p
<larsu> will do
<larsu> had some conversations with desrt about the headerbar issue
<larsu> I think that's about it... crazy week with lots of small things
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, there?
<seb128> likely not
<seb128> so my turn
<seb128>  * spent most of the week in launchpad, reading the bugs filed after release/triaging/targetting the ones to SRU
<seb128>  * did some SRUs (empathy, rhythmbox)
<seb128>  * helped testing some other SRUs
<seb128>  * some debugging (valgrined xorg for touch/xserver segfault issues)
<seb128>  * quite some IRC discussions (gtkheaderbar, new gnome-desktop, GNOME updates)
<seb128> </week>
<vedic> Which gui do you recommend? I have tried xfce4 but I think I need a bit better but light as well. xfce4 is light but I need a bit better
<seb128> KombuchaKip, oh, sorry I almost forgot you ... you had something to share I think
<desrt> vedic: (desktop team meeting in progress right now, sorry)
<seb128> vedic, hey, try #ubuntu for user questions
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Hey man. No problem. Yes, a patch. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824909
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 824909 in OS Integration "can't print .eml files - print preview remains blank" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128> did you manage to get it in a ppa for testing?
<vedic> seb128,, desrt: Ok. Thanks
<seb128> KombuchaKip, did you manage to get it in a ppa for testing?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: No not going to do that yet until upstream accepts it. Then I'll build a PPA, and then I'll SRU it.
<seb128> ok
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Otherwise there is no point in going through all of that if upstream says it's no good.
<seb128> well, if upstream accept it/merge it you probably don't need to SRU
<seb128> we security update new versions
<seb128> right
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Yep
<seb128> good luck with that, seems like they have been busy with releases but have it on their review list
<seb128> KombuchaKip, thanks
<desrt> and back to seb
<seb128> ok, so end of roundtable
<larsu> GNOME!
<seb128> let's discuss GNOME updates
<larsu> glib: yes. gtk: yes.
<desrt> i know larsu's opinion
<KombuchaKip> seb128: No problem. So far they seem agreeable upstream and I can't see why they'd turn it down. Looks like there isn't much being done on Thunderbird these days, so you'd think they'd take it.
<larsu> I know desrt's.
<seb128> desrt, what is planned in glib this cycle ?
<larsu> GWallclock
<desrt> seb128: nothing major
<larsu> EggObjectList *cough*
<desrt> probably will get the mainloop done this cycle...
<seb128> desrt, same as usual anyway, should be stable and if it's not you are there to fix the issues, right?
<desrt> in terms of new APIs.... it seems quiet right now
<larsu> desktop file cache?
<desrt> things have moved back to gtk hacking more...
<desrt> larsu: ya.. maybe this as well, but again, not new API
<larsu> right
<seb128> ok
<desrt> seb128: ya.... glib is pretty low-risk, for sure
<seb128> so glib 2.41/42: ack
<desrt> can't speak to gtk yet... i suspect we will know more after this week
<seb128> gtk 3.12: ack
<larsu> I think we should get the new gtk. I suspect that we can get rid of a lot of the background hacks I've had to put into the theme
<seb128> (seems to be easy, still need some testing before landing though)
<larsu> because 3.12 has the unified drawing stuff
<seb128> larsu, new = 3.12 right?
<desrt> pixelcache++
<larsu> I'll find this out in the next days
<seb128> not 3.13
<larsu> seb128: yes
<seb128> +1 for that
<larsu> we'll bother you about 3.13 once 3.12 is in+
<seb128> I plan to throw it to the desktop team ppa for some extra testing first
<seb128> right
<larsu> great
<seb128> let's settle down on the Debian merges, etc first
<larsu> I've been running it for a while today and it seems to cause no major issues
<desrt> would be nice to follow unstable with the base libraries as well
<Laney> we'll need to keep an eye on dialog widths
<seb128> then we can discuss 3.13 maybe
<desrt> but maybe wait for the second half of the cycle
<Laney> and I think there's something with dialog headers too
<desrt> soup, dconf, gvfs, etc, etc
<seb128> right
<larsu> Laney: yes, dialog headers are client-side now
<larsu> which is stupid, but I wouldn't consider it a major issue
<Laney> isn't there a gtksetting for it?
<larsu> there should be ya
<desrt> there may be some things we find upsetting about the new gtkdialog behaviours
<desrt> like how the buttons are in message dialogs now... kinda ugly imho
<desrt> they fill the entire bottom of the dialog
<larsu> isn't that fixable with css?
<desrt> i doubt it...
<desrt> there is only limited control over sizing from css...
<desrt> stuff like padding/margins/etc
<larsu> margin?
<larsu> now there's no margin - setting one should put the buttons back to were they where, no?
<seb128> is that in 3.12 ? do we have an example/screenshot of what we are talking about?
<desrt> no...
<larsu> anyhow, we can have a look
<desrt> https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/HIG/Dialogs has mockups
<desrt> pretty much looks like this
<seb128> k
<seb128> well anyway let's get the new gtk in the ppa and see how things are going with it
<desrt> http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2014/03/gedit-messagedialog.png is the real deal
<desrt> not so nice....
<seb128> urg, indeed not
<desrt> probably not too difficult to fix, but it would be some patching
<desrt> not just theme
<larsu> who's idea was that anyway?
<desrt> designers
<seb128> yeah, and "why"?
<desrt> seb128: nfc.
<seb128> but yeah, I think we need to fix that
<larsu> well, it's 3.13 material
<seb128> with some luck they get feedback that make them reconsider it
<larsu> let's fix it when we get therew
<seb128> +1
<seb128> larsu, but are you sure?
<seb128> larsu, that screenshot has "for 3.12" written in the gedit in the screenshot
<larsu> oh, might be ya
<larsu> we need to fix it, then :D
<seb128> agreed
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so glib->2.42
<seb128> gtk->3.12
<desrt> also note: the other things get turned off via xsettings
<desrt> so the headerbar dialogs will not be on on unity, by default
<seb128> likely going to update gvfs/libsoup/librsvg/gdk-pixbuf/g-i as usual
<larsu> they are right now though
<seb128> headerbar dialog default to off iirc
<larsu> seb128: the buttons are in the bottom, but the titlebar is still csd
<desrt> ya... we had quite an argument about this
<larsu> something messed up there
<larsu> *is
<seb128> k, something to watch for
<seb128> so summary
<seb128> * glib->2.42, gtk->3.12
<seb128> * likely going to update gvfs/libsoup/librsvg/gdk-pixbuf/g-i as usual
<seb128> * desrt/larsu/Trevinho working on make csd work better under Unity
<desrt> i'll chat with benjamin tomorrow about that
<seb128> we are waiting on the outcome of ^ to determine what to do with apps
<desrt> LIM is problematic...
<Laney> what about the apps we de-csded?
<seb128> default would be to update to 3.12/merge with Debian for things not using GtkHeaderBar
<desrt> seb128: not too many more of those around...
<seb128> let's stay away from adding GtkHeaderBar uses until we know better where we stand
<seb128> Laney, like?
<seb128> Laney, well, as said ^, I would suggest staying away from CSD until we have a better idea on how well it works
<seb128> desrt has a good point with LIM
<Laney> yes, for apps where it's not a problem
<Laney> like evolution
<seb128> Laney, it is a problem for evolution?
<larsu> we could have LIM with csd - we wouldn't even need dbus!
<desrt> putting the 'local' in LIM
 * desrt likes it
<larsu> LLIM
<larsu> locally locally integrated menus
 * desrt llikes it
<seb128> larsu, not consistent with LIM in other apps though
<larsu> seb128: it woudld be visually
<seb128> like display on mouseover?
<larsu> *it could be
<larsu> seb128: well, we'd need to add code for that obviously
<desrt> seb128: dunno if you notice but anything is possible in gtk these days :p
<seb128> lol
<larsu> except setting multiple accels for an action
<seb128> well, one thing at the time
<Laney> is it?
<seb128> let's get CSD working in Unity first
<desrt> larsu: i said 'these days', not 'last year'
<larsu> desrt: 'last year' is what we have in ubuntu though
<desrt> s/CSD/resizing of windows with no titlebars/
<seb128> well, we also need to have a non duplicated decoration
<desrt> ya... this is the motif hint
<desrt> you can request a border (ie: resizable) but not a titlebar
<desrt> this is the one that falls all over the place
<desrt> in unity this means you get neither
<larsu> compiz needs to get with the times! Think of all the motif apps not working
<desrt> in kde/xfce you get both
<desrt> anyway.... won't change the world
<seb128> k
<larsu> this meeting is getting longer than it used to be
<seb128> well, we know what to work on/have enough decided to start the cycle
<larsu> right
<seb128> larsu, well, over 1h is wrong for sure
<seb128> but we had the extra topic
<seb128> so let's wrap there
<seb128> we can discuss more specifics/updates later in the cycle
<larsu> ya, not complaining, just observing
<seb128> there is a vUDS in june as well
<desrt> (it's not true.  he was complaining.)
<seb128> we should have enough to keep busy until there
<larsu> (desrt is lying)
<desrt> i think we're done :)
<desrt> i'll buy larsu an icecream to make him happy
<larsu> \o/
<seb128> larsu wants his kebab
<larsu> not now
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, did you have anything more you wanted to discuss there?
<attente> so... about the java/inkscape/blender shortcuts...
<Laney> not really, if non-headerbar apps are ok to update to
<seb128> Laney, or is the "let's update glib/gtk, deal with Debian merges, make csd work better" then figure out what we do next a good start of cycle plan for you?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> let's stay away from adding for headerbars until we work more on that
<seb128> but everything else is fine to go 3.12
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thanks everyone
<seb128> desrt, larsu: please help attente!
<Laney> we should maybe work on empathy/telepathy/IM at some point ;-)
<seb128> attente, I'm unsure if you were trolling them btw :p
<attente> lol
<Laney> (or use pidgin)
<seb128> Laney, use pidgin!
<desrt> larsu has already closed his laptop, with prejudice
<attente> seb128, about the eclipse fix, i think it's ok for an sru
<attente> well, unity-gtk-module fix for eclipse
<seb128> attente, did you mp it already ?
<attente> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/1208019-2/+merge/216964
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> desrt, larsu, charles, tedg: ^ can you review that one?
<seb128> in looks fine to me in principle
<Laney> seb128: are you going to upload that 3.12 to the desktop ppa?
<seb128> Laney, yes, but probably not this week, rather next (since thursday is an holiday and I'm taking friday off)
<desrt> seb128: larsu and i are just about to head out for respective dinner dates
<Laney> ok i'll upload it to u-merges then
<seb128> Laney, if you want to do it feel free
<Laney> not going to review the diff right now
<Laney> I just want it atm to build some stuff
<seb128> Laney, u-merges?
<Laney> my 'u' testing ppa
<seb128> desrt, larsu: have fun!
<seb128> Laney, oh, ok
<ogra_> oh man ... this pile of lockscreen bugs is a PR disaster
<Laney> erm
<ogra_> (is there any key combo that doesnt let you bypass the lock ? )
<Laney> trolling?
<ogra_> every time i open a new news site there was a new one found in LP ... and they pick on all of them
<ogra_> Laney, nope
<ogra_> alt-f2 ... not ctrl-alt-t
<ogra_> s/not/now/
<seb128> ogra_, it's 1 bug
<ogra_> is it ?
<seb128> yes
<ogra_> bug 1313885 suggests ctrl-alt-t is new
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1313885 in unity (Ubuntu Utopic) "lock screen bypass" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313885
<seb128> ogra_, it's the same issue
<ogra_> but a different fix ?
<seb128> ogra_, it's "by playing with indicator you can end up having the keyboard focus in the session"
<seb128> no
<ogra_> ah, k
<seb128> the fix is buggy/incomplete
<seb128> you can still end up with the keyboard going to the session
<seb128> which let you do "keybinding of your choice"
<ogra_> well, in any case news pages seem to love to pick it up
<seb128> well, nothing we can't do about that, out of fixing the issues
<seb128> can't->can
<seb128> ogra_, stop reading so much "news" sites
<mdeslaur> ogra_: feel free to send this list of bugs to the news sites: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated
<ogra_> seb128, lol
<Laney> It's what you get if you do everything in the open
<ogra_> mdeslaur, after fighting with two reporters for half the night about bug 1308572 i gave up doing such stuff
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308572 in unity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 14.04: security problem in the lock screen" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308572
<ogra_> they nicely reported it as present in the release in their news
<mdeslaur> ogra_: apparently reporting about bugs that are already fixed doesn't bring readers :)
<ogra_> mdeslaur, "Ubuntu 14.04 released with serious lockscreen bug !!!111oneone" makes a wonderful clickbait headline
<Laney> I wouldn't get worked up about it
<Laney> Bugs happen, they get fixed, we move on
<ogra_> yeah
<mdeslaur> ogra_: I publish 2-5 USNs every single week, they do realize there are a constant flow of security issues, right? :)
<Laney> If someone wants to make a few cents writing about them then that's up them as far as I'm concerned
<Laney> it's not worth getting distracted over
<mdeslaur> anyway, /me goes back to work
<ogra_> mdeslaur, i would expect they do ... after all its the biggest german security news site ... (though i would also expect some serious research from them, its the first time i see them doing such a clickbait thing)
<asac> with bregma being on vacation who would know something about how the unity8 session with mir works?
<asac> on deslktop?
<asac> and lightdm etc.
<seb128> asac, mterry might be able to help you
 * mterry looks up
<mterry> I don't see scrollback
<seb128> <asac> with bregma being on vacation who would know something about how the unity8 session with mir works?
<seb128>  on deslktop?
<seb128>  and lightdm etc.
<seb128> mterry, ^
<mterry> asac, I might yeah
<seb128> mterry, sorry, just random shoot, you seem like one of those who could know
<tedg> larsu, I thought we had a signal for when a menu was shown if there was a special action defined, no?
<asac> mterry: Saviq is already talking to stgraber  in -touch on this topic now... lets see if they figure it :)
<Saviq> mterry, come to -touch, you'll definitely be helpful
<larsu> tedg: we do, see the "submenu-action" section in https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GLib/GApplication/GMenuModel
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-30
<alkisg> Good morning
<alkisg> attente, seb128: I'll be around for hours, trying to help in the keyboard layout switching thing, please ping me if you have patches for me to test, and I'll be trying to provide patches as well. Thank you.
<Mirv> seb will probably be around in 2.5 hours
<darkxst> pitti, bug 1314441
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1314441 in gobject-introspection (Ubuntu) "add GI marshalling test interface" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314441
<pitti> hey darkxst
<pitti> darkxst: ah, there's no 1.40.1 with that yet? I'll sponsor the utopic package then
<pitti> darkxst: and the same as 2ubuntu0.1 for trusty-proposed, I figure?
<pitti> oh wait, it's -1 in trusty; but I'll deal with that
<darkxst> pitti, right there was no g-i release with that yet
<darkxst> and thanks
<pitti> darkxst: done
<darkxst> pitti, also bug 1314432, we should just re-sync with debian here? right?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1314432 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "[systemd] Modemmanager missing unit file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314432
<pitti> darkxst: we might still need http://launchpadlibrarian.net/167591018/modemmanager_1.0.0-2_1.0.0-2ubuntu1.diff.gz in case it fails again on ppc64el
<pitti> darkxst:  but we can try with a sync first, yes
<Laney> guten morgen
<pitti> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> pitti: mÃ¼de, aber okay, danke
<Laney> und du?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney pitti
<pitti> Laney: mir gehts gut, danke!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> Laney, du -> dir?
<seb128> pitti, lut
 * pitti applauds seb128
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> yeah?
<Laney> I thoguht I was using the nominative case
<mlankhorst> morning btw :p
<rsalveti> xnox: updated bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android/+bug/1305315
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1305315 in gcc-i686-linux-android (Ubuntu) "Android container fails to start when built with the gcc-i686-linux-android toolchain" [Undecided,New]
<rsalveti> ops, this was for #u-devel
<pitti> Laney: no, it's the dative; "Mir" gehts gut
<pitti> Laney: "ich" gehe gut -> that's the actual walking
<Laney> 'ich bin mÃ¼de' â¦ und ?
<pitti> Laney: there the "ich" is the subject indeed, so it's Ich/Du
<seb128> Laney, I though you were referring to the "wie gehts?"
<Laney> yeah I thought that ich bin <something> was a normal way to reply to that
<pitti> Laney: so walking: "wer geht?" (subject); for inquiring the object: "wem geht es gut?" or "wem gehoert der Apfel"? -> dative
<pitti> that bit confused me in French -- "je vais Ã  cafe" and "je vais bien" is exactly the same, although two different meanings of aller
<pitti> ("au cafe")
<pitti> and cafÃ©, argh :)
<darkxst> pitti, oh, gjs autopackage tests failed with the new g-i, have upload gjs update which should fix it ;)
<pitti> darkxst: sweet, thanks; curious that it fails on an additional test API?
<darkxst> pitti, may have just been broken? no idea why that triggered it though https://git.gnome.org/browse/gjs/commit/?id=a6d342ba894522c62f3f7c75ebc97100c2b9edfe
<darkxst> or maybe that test was just not running, due to the missing API! and that patch is just a white herring
<darkxst> red even
<darkxst> pitti, oh this is odd? https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-gjs/ARCH=i386,label=adt/6/console
<pitti> darkxst: known bug, I'm on it
<pitti> darkxst: I retried the test
<mlankhorst> xnox: oops missed a spot
<mlankhorst> i figured some of the files were autogenerated, but they weren't
<mlankhorst> there we go, at least it tries now :P
<Laney> did we forget to fix/update the evolution ubuntu one mail?
<Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/09_add_ubuntuone_email.patch
<seb128> Laney, do we have u1 mention in the default email?
<seb128> Laney, seems we did indeed
<Laney> just drop?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> none of the things listed there are still a thing afai
<seb128> k
<seb128> evo is not even our default mailer anymore
<Laney> I'm not sure that patch even work
<Laney> s
<seb128> seems another reason to drop it ;-)
<Laney> yes I was checking to SRU it
<seb128> let me check on my test laptop as well
<Laney> just tried in a precise & trusty VM with clean evolution profiles and neither of them had the message
<Laney> I'm assuming the 'On this computer' inbox is where it's supposed to be
<seb128> I'm surprised it's not working in precise
<seb128> I though we had it tested there back then
<mlankhorst> ugh xkb-data is evil :P
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I don't see u1 emails here either in trusty
<Laney> cool (but bad in another way), no need to SRU that then
 * Laney fixes hunspell-en-us
<dpm> hi happyaron, around?
<happyaron> dpm: hey
<dpm> hey, how are you doing?
<happyaron> fine, :)
<dpm> excellent, thanks so much for the translations in scopes!
<happyaron> np, :)
<dpm> I've just sent an e-mail with the latest one we've enabled for translation. Sorry for these coming piecemeal instead of all at once, but I think we should now be good to go with i18n in scopes. If you've got the chance, do you think you could look at translating these new 8 strings I sent?
<happyaron> sure
<happyaron> ah, timeout and F5
<GunnarHj> dpm: Hi David, is there a near deadline for those translations?
<dpm> great, thanks again happyaron!
<happyaron> seems there's something wrong with LP atm.
<mlankhorst> xnox: well mapping lwin + rwin has been a mess, no luck so far :P
<dpm> hi GunnarHj, not really. For the Simplified Chinese ones we're aiming at getting them done this week, as we'll be presenting the phone at Mobile Asia Expo. For all languages (including zh_CN), the translations should automatically land in the images as soon as new images are promoted
<GunnarHj> dpm: Aha, so that's why you are pushing happyaron. :)
<dpm> GunnarHj, asking, not pushing ;)
<GunnarHj> dpm: ;)
<happyaron> dpm: done
<dpm> awesome thanks happyaron!
<dpm> happyaron, do you happen to have an Ubuntu phone, or have you run the emulator to see what the status of the zh_CN native language support is?
<happyaron> nope
<mlankhorst> xnox: hah it works!!
<mlankhorst> but I have to redefine space, no idea if that breaks anything
<mlankhorst> xnox: http://paste.debian.net/96534/ -- but some locales define a 'no break space' which wouldn't work with win_space_toggle
<mlankhorst> or even worse latvia ndefines other keys on top of the space bar ;P
<om26er> seb128, Hi!
<om26er> seb128, can you please get someone to look into this bug 1304285 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1304285 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "nm-connection-editor crashed with SIGSEGV while importing OpenVPN settings" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304285
<mlankhorst> some other languages do too, but hey if you want win_space toggling there you have it ;-)
<xnox> mlankhorst: most Latvians use apostrphe variant to be honest, and the latvian layout is not used (nobody knows how to type on it)
<mlankhorst> xnox: yeah but just warning that it may break some keyboards
<mlankhorst> if they expect a non-breaking space
<mlankhorst> but honestly I don't have a clue how common that is :P
<mlankhorst> xnox: can you test? it appears to work locally
<seb128> om26er, hey, it's already assigned to cyphermox did you try to check with him?
<om26er> seb128, I assigned that so that it appears in his email. I am waiting for him to wake up.
<seb128> k
 * work_alkisg is writing down all keyboard layout issues starting from the installation and up to after manually configuring the keyboard layout, in http://goo.gl/1lx0jz.
<alkisg> I've written 13 separate issues so far
<alkisg> All recent issues, they were never there before gnome decided to override xkb... :(
<alkisg> About half of them are Ubuntu-specific
<alkisg> Tomorrow I'll start testing the patches, to see which patch solves which bugs :)
<seb128> alkisg, thanks, your overstatements about the issues or how they are not looked at doesn't help there though
<alkisg> seb128: which ones? I can give you write access if you could spend a few minutes to delete them
<alkisg> I don't want to overempasize things
<seb128> alkisg, well the end of your introduction about the many launchpad bugs not receiving the attention they deserve
<alkisg> Ah, there are about 100 bugs that are around for years
<alkisg> I don't think it's an overstatement, but I can delete it
<seb128> well, that's true from any project/bugtracker/topic
<xnox> alkisg: just delete introductory paragraph. the rest is very useful.
<alkisg> Done
<seb128> launchpad bug numbers are over 1M
<seb128> the team is small compared to that
<alkisg> Deleted the intro
<seb128> thanks
<alkisg> What I wanted to avoid is, the quick "file bugs" "solution"
<xnox> is it at all possible to use keyboard combos to change keyboard layouts on the console?
<xnox> there is no X running, so how would that work?!
<alkisg> I can only provide patches for a few of them, I'd need help for many of the rest...
<seb128> we need help as well
<alkisg> Understood
<xnox> oh, alt-shift works, hm, i have no clue how that works.
<seb128> some of those issues are also limitation reached by the GNOME design choices/xorg
<alkisg> xnox: I think the kernel handles some basic layout switching stuff
<alkisg> Through setupcon etc
<alkisg> seb128: I think only [10] is there in fedora 20, the rest of them are solved
<alkisg> I.e. the "apps grabbing the keyboard" thing
<seb128> alkisg, lot of those issues seem to be the same bug
<seb128> alkisg, "the indicator doesn't pick changes done through xkb cycling"
<alkisg> seb128: some of them might be, but I tried to only list the ones that _might_ not be the same bug
<alkisg> In cases I was 100% sure it's the same bug, I didn't write it... anyway I'll spend more days re-writing that, as I gather more info about how patches affect those issues
<alkisg> I'll also link to existing bugs in launchpad, whenever I can find them
<seb128> ok, thanks
<alkisg> So what I'd like from you guys, is to provide patches in any of those issues I list that you know your way around that code and can easily pinpoint the affecting lines
<alkisg> And I could compile/test them...
<seb128> alkisg, start by filing bugs reports (no need if there are already bugs about those issues) and pointed the bug numbers here
<seb128> we can then work on them in order
<alkisg> OK, will do that tomorrow (it's getting kinda late here). Thanks a lot!
<seb128> thank you for working on those!
<om26er> seb128, who to talk about X crashes ?
<seb128> om26er, mlankhorst
<om26er> mlankhorst, Hi!
<om26er> seb128, thanks
<om26er> moved to #ubuntu-x
<kenvandine> i can't decide... update my desktop or phone to utopic first...
<didrocks> kenvandine: or both? :)
<kenvandine> too scared :)
<seb128> kenvandine, update the phone, you don't need it to get work done ;-)
<didrocks> kenvandine: update the laptop, you don't need it as well to get work done ;)
<didrocks> just code by thinking :p
<kenvandine> hehe
 * seb128 stands to the "the LTS needs to be tested as well"
 * kenvandine starts small, creating a schroot for sbuild :)
<seb128> that seems a good step 1!
<Laney> I upgraded because I accidentally did sbuild -d utopic and couldn't be bothered to rebuild it for trusty
<kenvandine> that was too easy... created and built libphonenumber in it already!  maybe i need to just upgrade :)
<Laney> and I got gtk 3.12 out of my local repo and now have borked dialogs
<Laney> fun
<mlankhorst> seb128: but a crashing bt attached with gdb /usr/bin/Xorg $(pidof Xorg) + info locals would help me a lot too
<mlankhorst> if valgrind doesn't work
<seb128> mlankhorst, don't you have a bt in the apport retrace?
<mlankhorst> well valgrind would be best
<seb128> well, I don't get errors in there :/
<seb128> not others than the ones from the log I had yesterday at least
<mlankhorst> valgrind says screen = NULL, which is weird..
<mlankhorst> just for fun can you try a vt switch?
<seb128> I keep vt switching
<mlankhorst> hm
<seb128> I've my valgrind log displays on a vt
<seb128> so I play with xorg and go to the vt to see the log and come back
<mlankhorst> ah i simply log to a file in append mode
<seb128> right, you just need to tail the log from somewhere
<mlankhorst> can you try with pointer barriers? just for attempting
<seb128> or open it
<seb128> I don't have a multiscreen
<mlankhorst> you also get pointer barriers if you tell the dock to hide
<seb128> well, the touchscreen gets in weird state when running under valgrind
<seb128> like I can't left click anymore
<seb128> but I think that might be another old/known issue
<mlankhorst> I thought that was fixed :/
<seb128> me too
<seb128> well it happens under valgrind
<seb128> instead of the segfault...
<mlankhorst> hm funstuff, I'll prepare a xorg-server 1.16rc2 in some ppa tomorrow, at least that should give us another data point
<seb128> yeah
<mlankhorst> nothing in there looks like it would fix anything though, grr
<mlankhorst> afk, food!
<deviantp> Hey guys, quick question at work I've got an Ubuntu install for some testing, when I plug in a PCI-e SSD I get dropped into an initramfs shell saying the UUID of the boot disk can't be found. Doing a blkid shows the "missing" UUID is the same as device /dev/sdd5. Usually (and in other slots) the boot disk is  enumerated as /dev/sda5
<deviantp> I didn't do a good job of explaining that, the boot disk is a normal HDD. The PCI-e ssd is supposed to be a secondary
<xnox> if deviantp appears again redirect to myself or cking
<xnox> mlankhorst: that paste from the morning is perfect!
<xnox> mlankhorst: works like a charm.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-01
<robert_ancell> RAOF, could I bug you to get bug 1304866 out of the SRU queue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1304866 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu Trusty) "Notice of expiring password in greeter not really visible" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304866
<robert_ancell> Also, how does verification work if you have one bug SRUing for two releases?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You tag verification-succeded-precise, verification-succeeded-trusty.
<robert_ancell> nice
<robert_ancell> clever system
<robert_ancell> RAOF, thanks!
<mlankhorst> morning
<mlankhorst> xnox: goodie
<mlankhorst> xnox: but caveats apply :P
<mlankhorst> xnox: I've done the programming but it really takes many different layouts for testing :p
<Laney> morning!
<darkxst> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey darkxst, wie gehts?
<Laney> desrt / larsu: yo, could one of you comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1305016 please? since you've been looking into this business
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1305016 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Windows have only borders if __GTK_FRAME_EXTENTS is not supported by WM" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<darkxst> Laney, a little cold here! bush camping in a house without a heater, a tent would be warmer ;)
<Laney> start some heavy compiles on your computer :P
<mhr3> larsu, ping?
<mhr3> larsu, if you're working - https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/gsettings-qt/fix-wrong-unref/+merge/217891
<darkxst> Laney, that won't work with these silly power efficient computers these days! If only I still had my Pentium 4 toaster!
<darkxst> pitti, ping
<Laney> I think he'll be off today for the holiday
<darkxst> Laney, ah ok
 * darkxst needs more holidays now, kinda got too used to doing nothing but climbing for 10 days ;) 
<mlankhorst> oh right seb128 doesn't work today
<Laney> slackers*
<mlankhorst> communists :D
<Laney> *I'm going to be slacking monday and tuesday
<mlankhorst> bleh anyone else i can use as victim for debugging touch? :P
<mlankhorst> just needs a touch screen and xorg-server from the ppa
<Laney> not me
<Laney> tkamppeter was interested in that stuff i think, maybe ask/email him
<larsu> mhr3: I'm not (it's a holiday and I'm at the gtk hackfest). Approved anyway ;)
<larsu> mhr3: thanks
<larsu> Laney: we've been meaning to talk to mclasen about that
<mhr3> larsu, cheers! and enjoy hackfest
<larsu> thanks!
<mlankhorst> yeah it helps to have people here though, I lack the hw :P
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, Laney, I can do a test for you, if it does not mess up my system (easy way to get back from xorg-server from PPA to normal). Not sure whether today or tomorrow.
<mlankhorst> oh what about right now? :P
<Laney> larsu: yeah I know, I was just hoping you could respond to that report
<Laney> it's got a patch in the queue for sponsoring you see
<larsu> Laney: I already talked to the submitter on irc a while back
<larsu> but yeah, I'll respond as soon as I know more
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> darkxst: bug #1300464 confuses me
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1300464 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Ubuntu GNOME Trusty Slides Update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300464
<Laney> what is it asking for?
<darkxst> Laney, that was supposed to land pre 14.04 release
<Laney> yes
<darkxst> it didnt ;(
<Laney> but you can SRU it for .1 I guess
<Laney> is it your linked branch?
<darkxst> Laney, yeh
<Laney> ok
<Laney> xnox: will there be a slideshow upload before .1?
<darkxst> Laney, there kind of needs to be ;) I was offline the last few weeks, no need to let that linger on!
<Laney> I mean another one
<Laney> in other words do I upload it now or not
<darkxst> Laney, are there even trusty .1 daily images?
<darkxst> Laney, I would think pushing to the bzr branch would be fine
<Laney> Not yet, but there will be
<xnox> Laney: yes there will be, but we should sru that sooner, rather than later.
<Laney> darkxst: we'll need SRU info
<Laney> this discarding translations thing takes a while
<darkxst> Laney, what do you mean? its only the screenshot images that changed
<Laney> [ QA ] Look at the slideshow and check the new images are used
<Laney> :)
<darkxst> images are not translatable though!
<Laney> oh I see
<Laney> I thought you were responding to my SRU info line
<Laney> this is part of the build process of the package apparently
<darkxst> Laney, just for you, updated;
<darkxst> [Regression Potentional]
<darkxst> None, We are regressing here by showing old screenshots, these were meant to land before 14.04 released. But now it is paramount these are updated for 14.04.1 release!
<Laney> ty
<darkxst> Laney, xnox, and I am happy for them just to be committed into the bzr branch, for the time being
 * xnox why do i always think about sci-fi movies whenever anyone says "paramount" =)
<Laney> oh noes, I can't push there!
<mlankhorst> or can't you?
<Laney> xnox: lp:~laney/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xnox-help-me help me please
<xnox> hm?
<xnox> oh, i've merged it locally already.
<Laney> I'm not in ~ubiquity-slideshow
<Laney> umm okay, I was clearly looking at it but good ...
<xnox> I'm not sure if we have trusty stable branch yet.
<xnox> i'll upload that into utopic though
<xnox>  Laney, do you want to be in the ubuntu-installer team?
 * darkxst sleeps now! night all
<xnox> that's how i get the rights to ubiquity-slideshow
<Laney> if you want
<Laney> i'm not sure dylan is active any more
<Laney> hmm he does have some recent karma though
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, please tell me what to test and which PPA and also how to get back to normal afterwards.
<mlankhorst> ppa:canonical-x/x-staging use 2:1.15.1-0ubuntu2.1~ppa2, just try to break things by using the touchscreen :P
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, thanks. Will install it and if I see something broken in the next days I tell you.
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, is this for Utopic?
<mlankhorst> trusty
<mlankhorst> i guess it works on utopic too if you downgrade xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-core-dbg directly
<mterry> mlankhorst, heyo!  Do you have any objection to me uploading a change to failsafe-x.conf that changes the start on condition from "lightdm EXIT_STATUS=[!0]" to "lightdm RESULT=failed" ? (and same for gdm there)
<mterry> mlankhorst, also it seems like there is a git branch for xdiagnose not mentioned in debian/control?
<mlankhorst> mterry: hm dno? is it for utopic
<mlankhorst> if you upload for utopic can you re-enable the intel hang thing too?
<mterry> mlankhorst, yeah for utopic
<mlankhorst> basically undoing the diff for last xdiagnose upload
<mterry> mlankhorst, I'm not familiar with the intel hang thing
<mlankhorst> mterry: uncomment the line in debian/xdiagnose.udev
<mterry> mlankhorst, I just see rebuilds and apport hook finagling
<mterry> mlankhorst, OK
<mterry> mlankhorst, oh right.. but the git tree isn't in my source dir and I get a whole bunch of git nonsense in my debdiff -- a) that probs shouldn't be in the package and b) should I update git?
<mlankhorst> erm just remove the .git stuff, it was uploaded by accident
<mterry> mlankhorst, here's the diff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7376016/
<mlankhorst> and it's a git-bzr thing :P
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-02
<pitti> Good morning
<alkisg> Good morning
<mpt> mvo, hi, could you spare a couple of minutes to steer Haikal Zain in the right direction in bug 968974?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 968974 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Some free applications looks like paid applications with price 0.00 and with buy button" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968974
<mvo> mpt: sure, doing that now
<mpt> thanks
<Laney> morning
<seb128> good morning desktoper
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> oh
<Laney> a seb128! that's a surprise!
<Laney> I thought you were away today
<didrocks> Laney: are you going to call French as slackers?
<Laney> did you have a good day off?
<pitti> hey seb128, morning Laney
<Laney> didrocks: I knew *you* would be here working hard
<Laney> maybe it's a german thing, but oh look there's pitti!
<seb128> hey pitti!
<didrocks> Laney: ahah, so you thought seb128 was a slacker, not sure how I would take thatâ¦ :p
<Laney> :P
<didrocks> morning pitti!
<Laney> I just thought he said he was taking today off too really
<Laney> did you guys have a good day off?
<pitti> Laney: no, we celebrate labor day by not laboring, but not the day after that :)
<seb128> Laney, I was first planning to, but it's grey/rainy and I've an hangout scheduled today
<pitti> yes, it was excellent; spent 5 hours in the garden, another hour on table tennis, and finished some reading
<Laney> nice
<Laney> oh wow
<didrocks> Laney: was nice thanks ! relaxing :)
<pitti> how about your's?
<Laney> robert_ancell found that bug!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<Laney> https://bug708282.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=275585
<seb128> Laney, yeah, he emailed me to say so, blame mccann on the way, who added the buggy commit
<Laney> heh
<Laney> everyone adds bugs, can't blame him really
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> The proposal to merge lp:~robert-ancell/gsettings-qt/symbols-file into lp:gsettings-qt has been updated.
<Laney> wtf
<seb128> glad he found the issue/a fix
<Laney> Iain Lane has proposed merging lp:~laney/gsettings-qt/add-symbols-file into lp:gsettings-qt.
<Laney> seb128: can you subscribe desktop-bugs to appdata-tools please?
<seb128> Laney, done
<Laney> ty
<mvo> mlankhor1t: hi, I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications currently and I was wondering if some users will have xserver-xorg-lts-{quantal,raring,saucy} installed on precise without running one of the backported kernels. I assume there will be users like this, but I wanted to double check to make sure
<alkisg> The opposite might be more frequent, running a newer kernel that fixes some issues, and the precise xorg because the newer ones have dropped XAA along with a few drivers...
<alkisg> But I had to do what you said in at least one school, yup...
<mvo> alkisg: great, thank you - that is the information I was looking for
<alkisg> np, glad to be useful :)
<Laney> Looks like the gvfs autopkgtest failure is real
<Laney> I can reproduce it under trusty (where it passed) by upgrading libgphoto2
<pitti> Laney: yes, it is; that and umockdev now fail due to new libgphoto2
<Laney> aha
<Laney> have you been poking?
<pitti> Laney: I need to refresh the recorded libgphoto conversation with a camera, as apparently the lib changed the wire protocol
<pitti> Laney: not yet, still working on fixing the "tar: unexpected EOF" occasional autopkgtest failure
 * Laney nods
<Laney> I don't understand the dbus-test-runner failure either
<pitti> looks like a missing intltool test dep or so?
<Laney> the previous line shows it finding intltool
<pitti> Laney: I suspect that's just the cached result from the built tree
<Laney> is that something that would make it not reproduce locally?
<pitti> you should be able to reproduce with teh LXC or QEMU runner
<Laney> I use prepare-testbed / run-adt-test
<pitti> ah
<pitti> no, that won't reproduce it as it doesn't clean the testbed between build and test run
<Laney> aha
<Laney> okay, I've got to go out for some errands but I'll poke that late
<Laney> r
<pitti> I need to get http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html updated
<didrocks> mvo: hey, just a little head's up. So since the first full backup succeeded, all incremental ones are succeeding as well :)
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> mterry: ^
<didrocks> sorry mvo, but hey still! :)
<mterry> didrocks, you had reproduced a deja-dup bug?
<mvo> didrocks: heh
<mvo> didrocks: and hello!
<didrocks> mterry: well, you told me you didn't have the time to look at the first issues (which seems more than legit), so I removed all invalid backups in the end
<mterry> Ah OK
<didrocks> mterry: just wanted to ping you when things are working as well :)
<mterry> didrocks, heh, thanks!  :)
<Laney> bah I need to de-windows this computer to reclaim some space
<Trevinho> seb128: hey... About https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1315369 it has all the synonyms of not being an unity issue. Maybe gnome power or lower level?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1315369 in unity (Ubuntu) "Log in not available after lock screen with multi-monitor" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<Trevinho> seb128: I've debugged it with ChrisTownsend (who experiences it) and unity is not anymore in screensaver mode, thus it has informed gnome-power to keep the monitors on. Also the power-on of the displays is something that other components do..
<mterry> mlankhor1t, poke about the xdiagnose fix yesterday
<Laney> dsc0t-with-bustle    PASS
<Laney> adt-run: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ tests done.
<Laney> phew
<mterry> Laney, :)
<Laney> mterry: thanks for being a god of main inclusion requests ;-)
<mterry> Laney, well that was an easy one, I don't mind picking those kinds up  :)
<seb128> Trevinho, it looks like compiz or X is just hanging/frozen?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, it's not hanging... It's responsive
<Trevinho> seb128: it seems that the display just doesn't turn on
<Trevinho> seb128: in fact ChrisTownsend was able to login, but still the screen stays blank
<seb128> Trevinho, I don't understand the part about seeing the ubuntu logo then
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: The cursor is over the external monitor which is blank, so the laptop screen just has the ubuntu logo.
<seb128> she says she can't move the cursor to the other screen
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: But the password prompt still accepts the password.  It's just the monitor is in standby.
<seb128> which to me feels like the wm is hanging
<seb128> weird
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, what videocard/driver?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: I just entered the password without moving the mouse.
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: I'm using Intel
<ChrisTownsend> And my external monitor is connected via a Display Port to VGA adapter.
<seb128> weird
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: yeah, Jane replied that she can't do it... weird
<seb128> is the screen resuming once into the session?
<Trevinho> not to ChrisTownsend
<seb128> can you try to get a command line and play with xgamma?
<Trevinho> neither simulating user activity (i.e. calling X screensaver off)
<seb128> we had issues in the past where the gamma was to 0
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Trevinho: Hmm, maybe her issue is different even though the symptoms are very similar.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/555870
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 555870 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Gamma values are not being set properly after a second fade out resulting in a black screen" [High,Incomplete]
<ChrisTownsend> Well, now my monitor keeps turning on.
<didrocks> mterry: it's not because I thank you that you can break deja-dup now! :)
<mterry> didrocks, ah come on, it's the start of a cycle, we need a little breakage to keep it interesting
<didrocks> :p
 * didrocks will stay on precise then!
<didrocks> just because of mterry
<didrocks> all him alone!
<mterry> :)
<Trevinho> seb128: well, I didn't check the fade code in gs, but from what I read it seems that it simulates the fading using the gamma value of X? as we don't do that, so it would be weird
<seb128> Trevinho, ok, so I've no clue what your issue could be, out of a driver/xorg bug
<seb128> Trevinho, but Jane's issue seems different since she can't type her password not move the pointer to the other screen
<Trevinho> seb128: Jane's problem seems different, yeah...
<seb128> Trevinho, that description sounds like compiz is hanging
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: do you have the same problem when unplugging the external monitor?
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: I'll try it, but now it seems the monitor wakes up every time I try.
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: we've fixed it then :D :D
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: lol
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: Ok ,now it's broken again.  I'll try disconnecting the external monitor.
<Trevinho> seb128: also I pushed to trunk the changes we landed as security fixes, should I add also a changelog entry for them?
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: good luck
<seb128> Trevinho, yes, please apply the debdiff of the upload
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: No, login prompt is now displayed in the laptop monitor.
<seb128> Trevinho, well, commit the changelog diff from the uploads rather
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Laney, tedg: you should probably commit that dbus-test-runner branch manually, no point to go through the train for things already in the archvie
<Laney> yeah I wouldn't train for it
<Laney> I think the test has hung though ...
 * Laney stabs
<xnox> yeah it's only meant to take like 5 minutes.
<tedg> seb128, Wait, can we put things directly in archive to avoid CI Train? That sounds great!  :-)
<seb128> tedg, *we* can, you ... sorry ;-)
<seb128> tedg, same old deal :p
 * tedg cries a little
<seb128> tedg, you can try to be nice to kenvandine
<seb128> he might upload stuff for you, like in the old time
 * tedg invests in a cooler to bring a lot of beer to Malta
<tedg> What's the bag weight limit?
<ogra_> just take a ferry
<xnox> tedg: hint you can buy beer and cooler in malta =)
 * tedg looks into ferries from Dallas to Malta
 * kenvandine hopes they have good beer in malta
<tedg> xnox, Heh, I just can't afford the amount of beer it'd take to get kenvandine to upload all my packages at hotel prices :-)
<xnox> tedg: i bet google maps will tell you to jetski across the atlantic or some such.
<mdeslaur> mmmm...malta beer...mmmm
 * tedg goes out to practice jet skiing
<tedg> xnox, I think the issue is more the rivers in Dallas though :-)
<chrisccoulson> qengho, want to co-maintain ninja? ;)
<Laney> right then
<Laney> see you wednesday ;-) happy weekend desktoppers!
<kenvandine> have a great weekend Laney!
 * Laney is going on a boat for 3.5 days
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> you too kenvandine :-)
 * Laney byesie bye
<qengho> chrisccoulson: sure.
<qengho> chrisccoulson: trade you for flash updates.
<chrisccoulson> hah :)
<mlankhor1t> mterry:  ?
<mterry> mlankhor1t, never mind, I just uploaded it.  I just didn't have access to whatever git repo you guys are using for xdiagnose, so I was going to have you upload.  But I got impatient and just uploaded myself  :)
<mlankhor1t> mterry: there is none
<mterry> mlankhor1t, oh...  My debdiff included a lost .git folder, so I assumed
<mlankhor1t> i think there's a bazaar branch
<mlankhor1t> but I haven't pushed those updates to it either
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-04
<Boyec> Hallo! How to configure default keyboard layouts & key to switch? I know that file with this conf is '~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/%gconf.xml'. Where is the template for it?
<Fudge> darkxst:  are you about?
<darkxst> Fudge, tes
<darkxst> yes even
<Fudge> g'day
<Fudge> not sure if you recall but you helped me a few months ago to disable twakeup test for glib-2.0 in a ppa uplaod as you said the amd64 builds failed for  some reason
<Fudge>   < darkxst> Fudge, "DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET = $(if $(filter deb, $(cdbs_make_curflavor)), -k check || true)"
<Fudge> I was wondering if you would know how to do the same so that i386 will build, this has been plaguing me for some time
<darkxst> without actually looking, the rule should apply to both arches
<darkxst> are you sure its the same issue?
<Fudge> no :$ this is over my head, the amd64 builds and i386 doesnt, can link to the buildlog?
<darkxst> Fudge, yes link
<Fudge> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174524560/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.glib2.0_2.38.0-1ubuntu1%7Evinux2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<darkxst> Fudge The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<darkxst>  gettext : Depends: libcroco3 (>= 0.6.2) but it is not going to be installed
<darkxst>            Depends: libgettextpo0 (= 0.18.1.1-5ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
<darkxst>  libglib2.0-0 : Breaks: python-gi (< 3.7.2) but 3.2.2-1~precise is to be installed
<darkxst>  python-dbus : Depends: libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78) but it is not going to be installed
<darkxst>  python-gi : Depends: libgirepository-1.0-1 (>= 1.29.0) but it is not going to be installed
<darkxst>              Depends: gir1.2-glib-2.0 (>= 1.31.0) but it is not going to be installed
<darkxst> E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
<darkxst> apt-get failed.
<Fudge> I thought I checked the packages there to make sure they were present, guess should check agian
<darkxst> possibly getting held up by transistions in progress
<Fudge> wouldn't the amd64 depend on the same package versions?
<darkxst> oh but that is precise
<Fudge> yes, this is a very long way about backporting a later version of gnome-orca
<Fudge> what do you mean by transitions in progress?
<darkxst> n/m that won't be happening in precise!
<Fudge> oh /me nods
<Fudge> so just re-look at the dependencies being available? thank you for your help, again...
<darkxst> Fudge, yes
<Fudge> thanx mate
<alkisg> attente, seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1315867
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-27
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hey larsu!
<larsu> guten morgen pitti! Gut nach Hause gekommen?
<pitti> larsu: jau, alles bestens; hatte ein tolles WE mit viel Garten, Gammeln, und Kino :)
<pitti> larsu: und bei Dir?
<larsu> pitti: auch super. War noch in London bis gestern und bin ein bisschen mit attente durch die Gegend gelaufen
<pitti> larsu: ah, auch mit beim Phantom?
<larsu> pitti: nee (das waren nur seb und helene, oder?)
<pitti> kann sein, ja
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, et toi, bien rentrÃ© ?
<pitti> didrocks: oui, et un bien week-end calme, dans le jardin et avec de la glace vraie :)
<pitti> didrocks: et toi ?
<didrocks> pitti: rentrÃ© vendredi soir, concert le samedi et piscine/sauna hier, donc tranquille Ã©galement :)
<didrocks> pitti: did you see bug #1444402?
<ubot5> bug 1444402 in systemd "While sbuilding, systemd loops attempting to umount the underlay" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444402
<didrocks> pitti: we found with Laney a correspondant upstream bug
<didrocks> and there was an early patch from February with a commit revert
<pitti> didrocks: yes, I did; I was going to pick up the "tentative" fixes from upstream, build a package in a PPA, and let Laney test it
<didrocks> and then, we had a laugh when we found out it was your commit :p
<didrocks> ah, there is a real fix?
<pitti> I hope :)
<didrocks> nice!
<pitti> in trunk it should be fairly ok now
<pitti> not unmounting stuff that we want, but still unmounting stale mounts when devices actually do go away
<didrocks> quite easy for him to reproduce anyway
<pitti> yeah, I don't get this, so it'd be good if he could test it
<didrocks> same here
<didrocks> I have a similar setup though
<didrocks> with a temp overlay in my sbuildâ¦
<didrocks> tmpfs*
<pitti> didrocks: oh, do you get the bug?
<didrocks> pitti: no, I have a similar layout than Laney, but without the bug
<pitti> didrocks: so my task for today is bug 1448247, then I'll look into that
<ubot5> bug 1448247 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu W-series) "pkg-create-dbgsym creates -dbgsym packages with the source version, not the binary version" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448247
<pitti> and bug 1448259 too
<ubot5> bug 1448259 in systemd (Ubuntu Vivid) "Systemd does not send SIGTERM first on shutdown" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448259
<didrocks> but he's having his sbuild in a container AFAIK, that's maybe the cause
<pitti> didrocks: there's one systemd in -proposed, these two (and perhaps more) are queued for the next SRU
<didrocks> oh, the pkg-create-dbgsym can be quite a blocker for some pacakgesâ¦
<didrocks> packages*
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, gcc mostly
<pitti> but we do have others which use a different binary version, seems LP checks that carefully
<didrocks> it's transitional packages for most I would say, so shouldn't impact that much, but stillâ¦
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<pitti> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> hey pitti didrocks
<willcooke> anyone else had problems with the Canonical IRC server?  Well, I know lots of people are, but anyone here?
<didrocks> willcooke: password has changed
<didrocks> you should have got a personal one now
<willcooke> didrocks, yeah, this is with that new password
<willcooke> talking to IS about it, seems a few are having issues
<Sweet5hark> moin
<Laney> hey hey
<pitti> hey Laney, hey Sweet5hark, how are you?
<larsu> hi Laney! Had a good trop home?
<larsu> hi Sweet5hark!
<larsu> Sweet5hark: how's HH?
<didrocks> hey Sweet5hark, Laney!
<Laney> hey pitti, very fine thank you!
<Laney> we had some friends over for a cheese party after I got back on Saturday
<Laney> as if more food was required :-)
<pitti> haha
<Laney> very smooth thanks larsu!
<Laney> did you have a nice afternoon/evening/return journey?
<Laney> & hey didrocks ;-)
<Laney> hope the parental visit went well
<Sweet5hark> Laney, pitti, larsu: Good a good trip home. Hamburg is rainy, but not cold. Both is appreciated as it keeps the pollen somewhat under control -- still too many around for my immune system.
<larsu> Laney: I did indeed. Chilled in London with attente during the day and went dancing all night
<pitti> ah, much nicer here, sunny and all
<Laney> \o/
<Sweet5hark> and good morning didrocks too!
<larsu> Laney: didn't need a room after all ;)
<Laney> good work
 * Laney does some IRC config mangling
<Laney> thought I updated this already
<didrocks> Laney: willcooke has trouble connecting with the right config
<didrocks> and it seems others as well
<pitti> Laney: FTR, I don't get bug 1444402, but I'm fairly optimistic that it's fixed in upstream git now; I'll build you a package later on, but I first need to unbreak ddebs
<ubot5> bug 1444402 in systemd (Ubuntu Vivid) "While sbuilding, systemd loops attempting to umount the underlay" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444402
<Laney> pitti: okay, thanks - the revert is fine for me meanwhile
<pitti> Laney: right, but just reverting is wrong too
<pitti> (for an SRU, I mean)
<Laney> I'm sure, but just until there's a real fix
<pitti> Laney: yep, absolutely fine for you locally
 * Sweet5hark wonders about his IRC ssl setup. Connecting to canonical fails with a weird error on the certs. Curiously the same happened with xmpp since London. THEY are out to get me it seems.
<willcooke> Could someone ping hikiko on Canonical and ask her to ping me on Freenode?
<hikiko> willcooke, i ll ping you
<Laney> haha
<Laney> shortcircuit
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> how strange!
<willcooke> hikiko, I saw you had disconnected, but I must have missed the reconnect
<hikiko> * Ping reply from willcooke: 0.15 second(s)
<hikiko> :D
<willcooke> can haz IRC
<willcooke> If you were having issues with the Canonical IRC server try again now, should be sorted
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: still auth fails for me here ...
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, join #canonical-sysadmin and spads will help
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: thx
<Riddell> Sweet5hark: bug 1448508 for icon love
<ubot5> bug 1448508 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "SRU libreoffice breeze icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448508
<Sweet5hark> Riddell: Yes, will look at that with 4.4.3 (and when the CVE-2015-1774 is through on all supported releases) ...
<willcooke> larsu wins the expenses prize
<didrocks> well done larsu :)
<larsu> willcooke: because I'm first or they're highest? :P
<didrocks> larsu: told you that you shouldn't have expensed this ferrariâ¦
<larsu> pssst!
<larsu> nobody was supposed to know this!
<willcooke> FIRST"
<larsu> :)
<larsu> I hate expenses, thought I might as well do it immediately
<larsu> feels much better than doing them 3 weeks later
<willcooke> +1
<willcooke> I should do mine I suppose
<willcooke> :(
<larsu> haha
<larsu> does someone have a 14.04 vm lying around?
<larsu> someone on #gtk is seeing a bug in tree views: can't resize columns when horizontal scrollbar is there
<willcooke> larsu, I'm on 14.04 here still
<willcooke> yes, I know, and I will upgrade
<willcooke> but not today
<willcooke> or this week
<willcooke> larsu, so in file manager or something like that?
<willcooke> larsu, yes, it does that
<larsu> does what?
<larsu> you can't resize?
<willcooke> larsu, with a horizontal scroll bar I can't resize cols
<willcooke> without a scroll bar, I can
<larsu> willcooke: cool thanks that all I needed to know
<willcooke> larsu, you want a video?
<larsu> willcooke: ha, no that's good
<willcooke> oki
<larsu> willcooke: it's just that sometimes people have a weird setup and I don't want to waste time, so I get a 2nd opinion :)
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> Laney: this ^ might be SRU material for the LTS
<larsu> seems the bug is fixes in later version
<larsu> *s
<Laney> do you know what commit?
<Laney> and is there a bug?
<larsu> Laney: telling him to file one now
<larsu> Laney: sorry for the early ping. I was so excited!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> uploads are fun, I understand
<didrocks> SRU even more! :)
 * larsu builds old gtk
<willcooke_> sigh
<willcooke_> internet
<willcooke_> sigh
<willcooke_> car
<willcooke_> sigh
<willcooke_> fml
<willcooke_> Looks like my internet is still messed up
<didrocks> fml?
<willcooke_> this afternoon I've got a hosp. appoint with the wife (so I wont be around between about 1400 and 1600)
<willcooke_> and the car wont start because the battery is dead *again*
<willcooke_> F*** my life
<willcooke_> ;)
<didrocks> willcooke_: was googling and found it quite early :p
<willcooke_> haha!
<didrocks> seems there is even specilised websites
<willcooke_> Interestingly though - if I move my PPPoE connection to a Rasp Pi I get 0% packet loss
<didrocks> we have "vdm" in french for this
<willcooke_> if I use the router provided by my ISP I get > 60% packet loss
<didrocks> seriously?
<willcooke_> so I think I've worked out the cause of the problem
<willcooke_> I need a sandwich and to think about this some more
<willcooke_> and tea
 * Laney is expecting the double glazing man, exciting
<Laney> no more cold office
<willcooke_> \o/
<willcooke_> I have to replace all our wooden windows soon, they're rotten
<Laney> same
<Laney> we're getting fake wood uPVC
<willcooke> same!
<willcooke> Brown wood on the outside, white and smooth on the inside
<willcooke> I think we can scrape another winter out of these ones
<willcooke> #windownews
<davmor2> willcooke: sounds like your alternator maybe dead
<willcooke> davmor2, nah, it's some deal with the bluetooth module - known issue
<davmor2> willcooke: but you work on Ubuntu Desktop why would you want news on windows?
<willcooke> plus Ford being tight and putting the smallest battery they can get away with in there
<davmor2> willcooke: hahaha
<davmor2> willcooke: get a skoda much easier and the bluetooth is likely to work.....mostly cause it will get failed till it's fixed if it doesn't work on mine :D
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> wires are the future!
 * xnox is lost reading above backlog snippets
<xnox> didrocks: the fml website has french and english editions. I don't get the french one, but seems popular.
<davmor2> didrocks: past present and future ;)
<Laney> larsu: when you get some free time, can you try ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww please? I just uploaded o-s disabling gtk2 to there
<Laney> I notice that GtkScrolledWindows get some weird grey area when they are scrollable
<larsu> Laney: I'm about to head out for some errands, but will do when I come back
<larsu> Laney: and thanks!
<Laney> np
<Laney> darkxst: ^^^^^^ fyi
<Laney> can you remember what the bugs you had last time were?
<Laney> we should track them somehow
<attente> is there something special i need to do to copy the files from obj-x86_64-linux-gnu into the debian directory for a cmake-based project?
<pitti> Laney: bug 1444402 now has a PPA which might fix this (fingers crossed); I followed up with what I need if they don't
<ubot5> bug 1444402 in systemd (Ubuntu Vivid) "While sbuilding, systemd loops attempting to umount the underlay" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444402
<davmor2> willcooke: out of interest has anyone tried lowering the amount of ram their machine has to see how well ubuntu-next runs on it?  ie can we still meet these specs with unity8 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<davmor2> willcooke: or do we need to lower/raise that spec ?
 * larsu doubts that we need to lower it
<larsu> these are specs for current unity?
<larsu> what about gpu?
<larsu> ah, it says further down
<Laney> attente: dh should set DESTDIR on make install automatically
<davmor2> larsu: VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution
<Laney> pitti: ack, thanks - will try tomorrow; going away now
<pitti> Laney: enjoy the sun!
<pitti> or climbing, or whereever you go :)
<Laney> climbing, you got it ;-)
<attente> Laney: have a good one
<larsu> davmor2: right, but that's fallback. It says further down that 3D acceleration is needed for unity, and that won't change for unity8
<Laney> pitti: btw running sbuild inside lxc is probably an ingredient of this bug
<pitti> Laney: in lxc? it for sure is
<Laney> I notice that I forgot to mention this. :)
<didrocks> Laney: where is my sun btw? I'm going to go to a protest for the UK to give it back to us!
<pitti> that explains why we didn't get it earlier
<pitti> didrocks: nous avons beaucoup du soleil ici :)
<pitti> I've just been out for some 45 mins of basketball practice, and was sweating
<didrocks> waow, lucky you :)
<davmor2> larsu: so it does
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10912230/
<Laney> that is fstab of the container
 * Laney waves good afternoon
<larsu> Laney: just when I upgraded with your ppa. Enjoy!
<Hallo32> Are there any information about the future of umake?
<Hallo32> Will it support libs like boost and other stuff?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-28
<larsu> bonjour!
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<larsu> hola pitti!
<didrocks> good morning
<larsu> hi didrocks!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<didrocks> salut pitti !
<pitti> didrocks: oh, display-managers test manages to shut down eth0 (I see a DHCPRELEASE in journal until ssh stops working)
 * pitti files bug 1449380
<ubot5> bug 1449380 in systemd (Ubuntu) "display-managers autopkgtest shuts down eth0" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449380
<didrocks> pitti: hum, can be "systemctl default"
<pitti> yeah, I need to look at that more closely
<didrocks> I didn't call isolate on purpose for this
<didrocks> daemon-reload should be harmless
<seb128> good morning desktopers, didrocks, pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> wie gehts?
<pitti> super, danke!
<pitti> und Dir?
<seb128> great, thanks ;-)
<willcooke> *yawn*
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<willcooke> hey didrocks
<seb128> hello willcooke
<willcooke> morning seb128
<willcooke> Hrm, looks like my issues with Chromium aren't isolated
<willcooke> errors.u.c makes it clear :(
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<willcooke> hey larsu
<willcooke> What do you think about having a weekly meeting this week?
<willcooke> I mean, mostly it'll be "went to a spint"
<larsu> what a coincidence. I went to a sprint, too!
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> willcooke, we would use it to summarize week/blueprints&co
<seb128> but we can also skip if you prefer
<willcooke> oh, so actually looks like I have a UOS meeting at 1630
<willcooke> let me see what I can move
<Laney> hello!
<didrocks> morning Laney
<willcooke> yo
<larsu> Laney: morning! What exactly did you want me to test from your ppa? Did you disable o-s for gtk2?
<Laney> no
<Laney> not on purpose anyway
<larsu> ah, sounded like it
<Laney> go into gedit
<Laney> and make it scroll
<Laney> I get some weird grey area
<larsu> the overshoot thing?
<Laney> could be
<larsu> hm I'm not seeing it in ambiance
<Laney> in Adwaita I get a dashed line there
<Laney> so it's probably saying that there is more content up here
<larsu> right
<larsu> is this with gtk 3.16?
<Laney> ya, from the ppa
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> doing good thanks!
<Laney> we started to organise a protest ride last night ;-)
<Laney> how are you? good rest of w.e.?
<Laney> (we are bikeshedding the name of the ride atm)
<pitti> hey Laney!
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks, yeah, we had a good w.e in London, and it didn't rain after all :-)
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> hiya pitti
<pitti> seb128: how did you like the Phantom?
<pitti> err -- comment vous avez aimÃ© l'opÃ©ra ? :-)
<seb128> pitti, it was very nice, the scenery was excellent
<pitti> "avez-vous", argh
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> c'Ã©tait trÃ¨s bien !
 * pitti aime la musique
<pitti> didrocks: systemctl default is the same as systemctl isolate default.target, no? at least that seems to shut down everything which isn't in graphical.target, like apparently the ifup@s; I'll have a closer look at it, don't worry (just keeping you posted)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's a shortcut to systemctl <something> default.target. Can be isolateâ¦
<didrocks> and so, this would make sense
<Laney> larsu: do you remember the bug # for inverted horizontal scrolling?
<Laney> the lp on
<Laney> e
<Laney> oh, i found it, the power of asking someone else
<larsu> :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, interesting; setting IgnoreOnIsolate=yes for ifup@.service works; I wonder if that's actually desirable (not shutting down interfaces on isolate), or whether we should just do this for these tests
<pitti> it might break "isolate rescue.target" or whatever
<didrocks> pitti: how would it break it? do you expect the ifup@.service being able to do some loop-hell and then, blocking our rescue?
<didrocks> pitti: or we might only set that during autopkgtestsâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: I mean, don't we want it to actually stop on isolating rescue or some other early/late/minimal target?
<didrocks> pitti: can we add conflicts="generic@.service"? I don't know if that works
<pitti> didrocks: add where? what's "generic"?
<didrocks> like in rescue.target Conflicts=ifup@.service
<didrocks> and that would conflict to all ifup instances
<didrocks> (I'm unsure this is supported)
<pitti> didrocks: maybe rather PartOf=network.target, and whenever that shuts down, ifup@ also shuts down?
<pitti> ah, due to our dbus shutdown hack, isolating rescue doesn't work anyway ATM
<didrocks> urgh
<pitti> didrocks: so, PartOf=networking.target and IgnoreOnIsolate=yes actually behave quite well
<didrocks> yeah, sounds logical, it will still be activated in rescue though
<didrocks> or we should conflicts
<pitti> didrocks: rescue is fine
<pitti> didrocks: I guess I meant emergency.target, or whichever target does *not* want (or shuts down) network-online.target and similar
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
<pitti> Laney: any luck with sbuild and the PPA?
<Laney> pitti: oh yes, let's try
<seb128> does anyone has a nautilus 3.16 version to test something?
<pitti> seb128: I can build it from the upstream tarball, if that helps:
<pitti> ?
<seb128> pitti, I can do that too, but I guess it needs a new GTK, etc
<pitti> ah, right
<seb128> don't bother, it's not important, it was to confirm if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1448474 is still an issue
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1448474 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "ellipsed file names are not expanded on mouseover" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> certainly an issue in vivid, but only in Ctrl+1 (list mode)
<pitti> in grid mode the names are just wrapped
<ricotz> seb128, hi, this is still an issue
<seb128> ricotz, hey, thanks
<seb128> pitti, right, I'm on vivid, I confirmed it's an issue there, and I confirmed it's not in nautilus 3.10 (I had debs unpacked to test), just wanted confirmation of current upstream before sending to b.g.o
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> pitti: still a bug - let me try to make a cloud instance which gets it
<seb128> Laney, larsu, what do you think about bug #1448969? (basically suggesting to backport https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=83e104b093f49ea452c25c370ce85cd247be4614 to trusty)
<ubot5> bug 1448969 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 can't resize treeviewcolumn" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448969
<larsu> seb128: I already looked into it but haven't confirmed the fix yet (will do in a bit)
<seb128> larsu, k, thanks
<larsu> seb128: it's fixed as of 3.14, but broken on the lts
<seb128> right
<seb128> larsu, also bug #1448407 ... could you have a look? unsure if that's a theme issue
<ubot5> bug 1448407 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "icons size issues in Nautilus" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448407
<seb128> larsu, basically if you dnd to a folder with a > 100% zoom level, the destination folder icon switch to an unzoomed one
<larsu> interesting
<larsu> I'll have a look
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> Laney: meh, would have been too easy :)
<qengho> willcooke: when you get the watchdog timeout crash, does chromium, or anything else, appear to be hung or unresponsive? I am starting to think the hung predicate is wrong altogether.
<willcooke> qengho, hiya
<willcooke> qengho, I'm not 100% certain, I can reboot and see what happens - but not quite yet - I'll give it a go later
<ochosi> larsu: hey! since 15.10 is opening up, wanna do something wrt indicators and symbolic icons?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, did you see https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/8311cfa576acddfbbb5f1e7a01d4055d6b0e123a ?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, saw it, havent digged too deep into it, there is no good reproduction descriptions yet, it seems ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k, can you triage the bug? it's number 10 on the daily e.u.c report for vivid
<Sweet5hark> seb128: the only one there says "crashed on closing the document" and the stack trace suggests this being about StarBasic macros in a document -- so might be somewhat tricky. That said: it is a regression vs. 4.3 (which should help somewhat), but without a reproduction document, its still fly by instrument flight (aka guesswork unless I manage to reproduce myself).
<larsu> ochosi: I'll try to get to it, but it's not highest priority
<seb128> Sweet5hark, right
<ochosi> larsu: sure, i was also wondering whether you wanted/needed help with that, since we discussed it during 15.04 at some point. i guess a list of indicators that would need patches would also be helpful
<larsu> ochosi: right. there's also an open question about whether we should merge icon themes at some point. everything's all over the place now
<ochosi> i understand, actually moving to symbolic icons would enable that process
<ochosi> or at least make it easier
<ochosi> but yeah, all in all the two things could be done independently
<ochosi> with the icon theme, i guess moving to the icons from mobile would be the ideal way to go
<qengho> Since I didn't come to the sprint, my progress report isn't "went to a sprint".
<qengho> * DONE: Cr 42.0.2311.90 is tested, and almost ready.
<qengho> * IN-PROGRESS: It's delayed a few days because I'm adding some start-up tests and recommendations to update the Flash player packages. Doing that right is hard. Almost happy with it.
<qengho> * IN-PROGRESS: Mir support again.
<qengho> * TO-DO: GPU watchdog hangs. Extended timeout didn't help much last time.
<qengho> So, there you go. Meeting of one.
<larsu> ochosi: it's not clear yet if we want to move to the mobile icons
<ochosi> k
<larsu> I think I'll wait for that decision before starting to work on it
<seb128> qengho, thanks for the update :-)
<willcooke> thx qengho
<Laney> pitti: okay, I got into a similar but not identical state on this vm
<Laney> here it rips the mount out before sbuild can even get going
<Laney> should be the same bug
<Laney> ssh ubuntu@10.55.32.96 & poke around with the 'vivid' container which has a 'vivid' schroot inside
<pitti> Laney: cheers!
 * qengho boggles at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1449607
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1449607 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Random Chromium / Chrome slowdowns with hardware acceleration" [Undecided,New]
<qengho> "acceleration"
 * desrt can feel it
<desrt> t -30
<desrt> 20
<seb128> desrt, Â°C?
<seb128> winter is back?
<desrt> 10
<willcooke> desrt, check your email :)
<desrt> oh
<desrt> :(
<willcooke> It seems to have been sent twice as well
<willcooke> so, I don't know, sucks to be you
<desrt> got it :)
<Laney> maybe he'll do another fake meeting
<willcooke> rather, sucks to be your mail client because you dont love it
<desrt> sure glad i didn't get to 0
<willcooke> lolz
<desrt> that would have looked ridiculous!
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> Laney, larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1448388 is by design right?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1448388 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus dialogs have no buttons" [Undecided,New]
<larsu> seb128: because header bars I guess?!
<willcooke> g'night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-29
<robert_ancell> bregma, I'm trying to get the convergence demo set up - do you happen to know what version of Ubuntu touch that is based on?
<bregma> robert_ancell, no idea, you'll need to ask Will I think
<pitti> Good morrning
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey didrocks & desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<larsu> morning!
<seb128> hey larsu
<pitti> hey didrocks, seb128, and larsu! wie gehtsZ?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> zzehr gut, danke! und dir?
<didrocks> hey pitti, larsu!
<larsu> I'm great, thanks!
<larsu> how are yo guys?
<pitti> larsu: ... apparently not paying enough attention to IRC :) quite well, thanks!
 * pitti enjoys working on non-emergency things for a change
<larsu> pitti: haha enjoy ;)
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> didrocks, you know all that packet loss I was telling you about.... and how once it had arp'd again pings would work for a little while before stopping....
<willcooke> duplicate IP address
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hey seb128
<willcooke> seb128, I've signed you up to a few UOS sessions
<willcooke> seb128, I'll just go for blanket coverage and then we can work out what is really needed once all the sessions are there
<willcooke> we should try and spread the load a bit
<willcooke> I think I will have to be at all of them, but we should spread the others around
<willcooke> I dont think robert_ancell will be able to cover any of them though :(
<larsu> morninf willcooke!
<larsu> *g
<willcooke> g'day larsu
<seb128> willcooke, I saw, thanks
<willcooke> In other news....
<willcooke> I am very concerned that it's nearly May already
<didrocks> willcooke: ahah, nice one on duplicated IP addressâ¦ We always think about firewalling banning, and iptables rules before thinking about the easy guilty one :)
<willcooke> What happened to the rest of the year !?!
<didrocks> willcooke: I hope you blame your dhcp now!
<willcooke> didrocks, worse - I configured it wrong, plain and simple.  What an idiot! :)
<didrocks> ahah ;)
<willcooke> So I'm now running a load-balanced set up which seems to be working.
<willcooke> More testing today, and then I'll write it up
 * willcooke -> school run
<hikiko> hello :)
<hikiko> didrocks, do you think it's safe to temporarily uninstall systemd and use init in vivid? I have troubles each time I restart services and when I restart lightdm I have to reboot (and even reboot doesn't work, I need to press the button after running reboot)
<hikiko> I ve uninstalled it successfully on debian unstable
<hikiko> but I didn't take the risk in ubuntu yet.. :)
<hikiko> (+I had several other minor problems)
<didrocks> hikiko: what do you mean by init? like sysvinit?
<hikiko> yes
<hikiko> and install systemd-shim for the services
<didrocks> it's been years that sysvinit isn't supported, I doubt it will even boot, upstart should still work though, but unsupported for the ubuntu desktop image
<didrocks> hikiko: what would be more interested is to debug your issues
<didrocks> as most of people don't seem to have this
<didrocks> I'm sure pitti or I will be pleased to help you
<hikiko> I think other people have this lightdm issue too +I'm sure debugging is better I was just wondering because it happens to have 2 vivid installations so, maybe it's faster to work in the non-systemd one while we debug the systemd
<seb128> hikiko, what do you do exactly and what is happening?
<didrocks> hikiko: well, I guess you will be the "we" as there is no other bug report (AFAIK) about such issues
<didrocks> so better to debug it with you, (now ideally)
<hikiko> sure :)
<didrocks> so let's start with this "I have troubles each time I restart services"
<hikiko> :s/services/desktop services!
<didrocks> what command are you running, what are you trying to restart and what happens?
<hikiko> i try to restart with sudo daemon restart
<hikiko> is this correct?
<hikiko> eg:
<didrocks> which service, for instance?
<hikiko> sudo lightdm restart
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> this isn't supported
<hikiko> :D
<didrocks> (and never was)
<didrocks> sudo systemctl restart lightdm
<hikiko> ok :)
<hikiko> pebcak
<hikiko> let me try :)
<didrocks> sure :)
<hikiko> ok now I ve run this it worked (so, apologies the restart was a pebcak) but I got another problem
<hikiko> maybe it's another pebcak... :D
<hikiko> when i start unity and compiz crashes (because for example I ve done a bug in the code or sth)
<hikiko> I return to the lightdm login screen
<hikiko> and if I re-login successfully
<hikiko> the previous session is gone and lightdm starts a new one
<didrocks> when you say "when I start unity", it means:
<hikiko> +this happens every time i try to run unity --replace ...
<didrocks> 1. you are in your session
<didrocks> 2. hack hack hack, buildâ¦
<willcooke> seb128, did you see on the snappy mailing list, sergiusens said they're working on an insaller for Snappy this cycle \o/
<didrocks> 3. unity --restart
<didrocks> right?
<hikiko> yes or ./unity --restart
<didrocks> (meaning, restarting unityâ¦ actually compiz from inside the session)
<hikiko> exactly
<didrocks> interesting that this crashes the session
<didrocks> so, first, this has nothing to do with systemd (it's still upstart managing the session)
<didrocks> I doubt anything change, I'm looking at the unity7 upstart script, it doesn't seem to have any magic to kill the session if compiz fails
<hikiko> I know for sure that other people get this too
<didrocks> seb128: do you know if we still have this "RequiredComponents" or if any change in gnome-session for this?
<hikiko> chris townsend for example got it yesterday
<hikiko> didrocks, also, I don't know if that helps
<hikiko> when I ran
<didrocks> hikiko: do you have any other .crash in /var/crash than compiz? (like a gnome-session one or whatsover)
<hikiko> sudo restart lightdm
<hikiko> I got an upstart error
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> those commands are upstart ones
<hikiko> yes
<hikiko> so it's normal
<hikiko> to get the errors
<hikiko> right?
<didrocks> so, basically until lightdm (included) everything is managemed by systemd
<didrocks> and there is no lightdm upstart script
<seb128> didrocks, gnome-session still has required component, but some jobs got moved from being gnome-session spawned to be upstart services
<didrocks> after that, it's upstart
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, unity7 is one of them
<didrocks> I wonder why compiz crashing trash the session thoughâ¦
<hikiko> in var/crash i have the compiz crashes
<didrocks> nothing else?
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, I think I mentioned it before, but could be make "restart" being a wrapper and make it call "systemctl restart" under systemd?
<hikiko> and some very old from
<hikiko> guvcview (a broken camera app)
<didrocks> seb128: restart is still used for session job as well
<hikiko> skype, chromium
<didrocks> seb128: so you need to know which kind of job are used
<hikiko> vbox
<hikiko> mmm
<seb128> willcooke, just saw for the installer, that's great!
<hikiko> I have a usr_bin_signon-ui
<didrocks> yeah, nothing that's related to the session-components itself :/
<seb128> didrocks, well, check the uid?
<didrocks> seb128: that can work, sure
<willcooke> seb128, I've poked them in #snappy to see if they need any input from us - I might follow up with an email to the ML as well
<seb128> willcooke, good, I should probably be on that channel, joined
<didrocks> seb128: btw, taping "restart" only close the current g-t window
<didrocks> (actually all)
<seb128> Try `restart --help' for more information.
<seb128> it does here
<didrocks> hikiko: let's wait for Laney (he should be around soon), if he heared about such behaviors)
<didrocks> seb128: tried 3 times, it closes the g-t window here
<seb128> didrocks, weird
<didrocks> and I can't ctrl+alt+t now :/
<didrocks> grumph
<seb128> didrocks, do you have the binary installed?
<didrocks> "the binary"?
<seb128> "restart"
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> "which restart"
<hikiko> also didrocks I don't know if I made this clear: unity --replace always sends me to the login screen not only when compiz crashes, +compiz crashes send me to the login screen too (2 different cases)
<didrocks> and it's the upstart one, of course, I checked it
<didrocks> hikiko: interesting, I guess it's something for Laney
<seb128> hikiko, didrocks, could be that restarting unity this week screws the job state and makes other job act in response
<hikiko> +also: didrocks  thanks for the help :) +sure, I ll wait for Laney :)
<didrocks> seb128: quite a lot of things in the session restarted
<didrocks> hikiko: yw!
<didrocks> seb128: u-s-d, and so on
<seb128> didrocks, weird...
<didrocks> weird you don't have the same "restart" behavior
<seb128> $ restart
<seb128> restartÂ : nom de la tÃ¢che manquant
<seb128> Try `restart --help' for more information.
<seb128> $
<seb128> $ which restart
<seb128> /sbin/restart
<didrocks> and no crash either, it really restarted some session services
<Laney> WHAT
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<seb128> howdy mr Lane
<Laney> greetings!
<hikiko> hahaha
<hikiko> hi Laney :)
<hikiko> Laney, I've got an issue after I upgraded to vivid I don't know if it's something in my settings or my use of systemd or a bug in the setup
<hikiko> but I remember that chris had it too yesterday when I first got it
<hikiko> when I run ./unity --replace ... (for a unity I ve built) I see the lightdm login screen and if I login, I login to a new session
<hikiko> +sometimes this happens when compiz crashes and I try to restart it
<darkxst> Laney, late pong, we don't ship overlay-scrollbars, so no problems there. how it gtk 3.16 looking for update?
<Laney> darkxst: try the ppa
<Laney> you had some problems last time i remember
<Laney> hikiko: is this new?
<darkxst> Laney, problems mixing gtk 3.16 with gnome-shell 3.14
<darkxst> but we won't do that
<hikiko> Laney, this started at the time I upgraded to vivid (a few days ago)
<darkxst> Laney, there doesnt seem to be any easy way around the theming issues, so will just upload core 3.16 along with gtk
<ricotz> Laney, darkxst, please take a look at the gtk packaging, iirc there are several manpages missing
<Laney> we should get this running --fail-missing
<Laney> ricotz: I can merge your branch, bzr is up to date
<ricotz> Laney, no bzr branch here yet, this just came into my mind, I stumbled over it while merging 3.14.13
<ricotz> Laney, I think the location of gtk-encode-symbolic-svg was weird too which should be in libgtk-3-bin
<ricotz> sorry, g2g
<seb128> Laney, --fail-missing doesn't work well with multi-builds
<Laney> seb128: just tried, the results seem sane here
<Laney> shows that there are some .desktop files, icons and manpages missing
<Laney> hikiko: Got it, somehow compiz got back into RequiredComponents in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session
<Laney> that is a bug
<seb128> Laney, is that standard debhelper or do we still have a custom hack script?
<Laney> cdbs
<Laney> but using the dh tools
<Laney> I guess it understands --sourcedirectory or whatever, maybe didn't do that right in the past?
<seb128> so the debian/dh_listmissing.pl is deprecated?
<Laney> man
<Laney> I don't even know what that is
 * Laney shows his youth
<seb128> that's the script we used to have for --list-missing in gtk
<seb128> because the cdbs/dh tools didn't understand the multiple builddirs
<Laney> ah
<seb128> e.G debian/build/shared debian/build/static
<popey> is there any way to "reset" compiz back to defaults?
<popey> (other than creating a new user or deleting all dot files)
<seb128> popey, there is a reset button in ccsm
<popey> problem I have is my GUI freaks out when I add/remove a display. A new clean user doesn't have this problem.
<Laney> it could be that if I fix these fail-missing files then it breaks later on
<popey> oh!
<seb128> popey, "dconf reset -f /org/compiz" should work as well
<Laney> this fails at the first dh_install call for the normal lib
 * popey presses "reset to defaults" button
<popey> unity disappears.
<Laney> will try after ricotz gives me his patch :-)
<seb128> Laney, k :-)
<seb128> let me know how it works!
<Laney> ricotz: I want to keep that tool out of the main -bin package, it's not for normal users
<Laney> not an "example" but didn't feel like making a new binary for it
<popey> seb128: yeah, the dconf reset didn't fix it, will reboot and see if the reset to defaults did, thanks!
<seb128> popey, shouldn't need to reboot
<popey> my unity died
<Laney> hikiko: try removing that "compiz;" and see if it works for you?
<popey> I'm unable to alt-tab anymore
<seb128> "great"
<Laney> this is a darkxst bug btw!
<darkxst> Laney, what is a darkxst bug?
<Laney> you changed RequiredComponents for ubuntu.session when updating gnome-session to 3.15
<Laney> 3.14
 * Laney tried to blame systemd at first
<Laney> annoyed that it wasn't that :P
<popey> bah, not unity wont start at all :(
<popey> *now
<darkxst> Laney, did I?
<popey> seb128: any other ideas for debugging unity not starting :(
<seb128> popey, type "unity" on a command line and see what is printed?
<hikiko> Laney, what do you mean remove compiz?
<Laney> darkxst: probably an accident, but the diff says so - curl -s https://launchpadlibrarian.net/188763536/gnome-session_3.9.90-0ubuntu16_3.14.0-2ubuntu1.diff.gz | zcat | filterdiff -i "*50_ubuntu*"
<Laney> hikiko: e.g. sudo sed -i 's/compiz;//' /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session
<popey> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10937467/
<seb128> popey, "Loading plugin: ccp"
<seb128> popey, in ccsm change the settings backend to gsettings
<seb128> ups
<seb128> "Info: Backend     : gsettings"
<seb128> hum
<seb128> popey, nothing more than that?
<popey> thats everything
<popey> display flickers and I end up with an empty desktop
<seb128> in unity enabled in ccsm?
<popey> hah! no
<seb128> popey, "gsettings get org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins"
<popey> the reset must have disabled it
<popey> just ticked the box and my launcher appears
 * popey hugs seb128 
 * seb128 hugs popey back
<seb128> weird, that plugin should be in the default
<seb128> popey, try to "gsettings reset org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins"
<popey> done
<popey> hmm, no window decorations
<popey> is /usr/bin/gtk-window-decorator the right thing for window decorator command?
<darkxst> Laney, I see, really don't know how that could happen though, the merge would have been based off the vcs-bzr branch
<popey> seb128: restarted lightdm, all back to normal. big hugs! Thank you!
<seb128> popey, yw!
<ricotz> Laney, https://paste.debian.net/plain/169847
<Laney> why do you want that program in -bin?
<Laney> this diff isn't based on the ppa or bzr
<Laney> bleh
<ricotz> Laney, I kind of consider this a dev tool and hiding it in example makes less sense
<ricotz> Laney, the diff is based on bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntugtk3/
<ricotz> Laney, so lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntugtk3 isn't the current one for 3.16?
<Laney> it is, lemme look in a bit, thanks
<hikiko>  Laney
<hikiko> without compiz;
<hikiko> lightdm restarts all the time
<hikiko> mmm and with compiz it restarts once
<hikiko> wait
<hikiko> maybe there's something wrong in compiz
<hikiko> ok it was not compiz I reinstalled it :s
<hikiko> i ll replace the dconf user as well to have the default unity settings
<hikiko> still
<hikiko> Laney, didrocks for the record: reboot doesnt work when you have nfs entries in fstab just found out
<didrocks> pitti: any idea? we have some tested together IIRC nfs entries in fstab successfully
<pitti> hikiko: not known, works fine here; can you please file a bug with a journal, using the "debug shutdown problems" steps in /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian?
<willcooke> could it be that nfs it starting before the NIC is up?
<willcooke> *is
<hikiko> sure pitti :)
<pitti> didrocks: yippie! (bug 1423811)
<ubot5> bug 1423811 in systemd (Ubuntu) "219-1ubuntu1 regression: boot hangs, logind fails" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423811
<Laney> accidental fix?
<pitti> Laney: seems so, about as accidental as it got broken in the first place :)
 * pitti lets his computer cool down now, after some 500 VM reboots and 30 git builds
<didrocks> pitti: interesting
<didrocks> again a proof that coverity can be useful :)
<Laney> hikiko: did you file a bug for this --replace issue?
<hikiko> no Laney
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, and Murphy's law (the commit said "Should Not Failâ¢")
<hikiko> Laney and pitti where should i file both bug reports?
<Laney> hikiko: gnome-session for me please
 * Laney will upload a SRU for this
<hikiko> ok Laney, thank you :)
<Laney> an*
<pitti> hikiko: nfs-utils for now, we can reassign as appropriate
<pitti> hikiko: please tag it "systemd-boot"
<didrocks> pitti: of course! I bet it's fsckd's fault :p
<hikiko> ok! thanks!
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it has its filthy fingers aaaaaaall the way to shutdown!
<hikiko> Laney,
<hikiko> gnome-session must be configured in order for Launchpad to forward bugs to the project's developers.
<pitti> didrocks: and for sure it's also responsible for the world's hunger and raining next Saturday
<Laney> hikiko: from a terminal run ubuntu-bug gnome-session
<pitti> didrocks: speaking of which, seems we need to change this a last time to read from that new socket that s-fsck now writes to?
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't follow what they changed upstream
<hikiko> ha! Laney the package gnome-session is not installed...
<hikiko> could that be the problem?
<didrocks> I think we shouldn't do anything until next systemd release anyway
<hikiko> it's not a unity dependency
<Laney> hikiko: oh right, no, unity-session then
<Laney> or ubuntu-session?
<Laney> I forget the exact name
<pitti> didrocks: right, but for v220 we need to port it
<didrocks> yeah
<hikiko> Laney, ubuntu-session maybe?
<Laney> if that works, sure
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, is there a chance that 4.4.3.2 is hitting a ppa today?
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: nope, will be a bit delayed
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, alright, let me know when it happens
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: willdo.
<hikiko> pitti, there's no package nfs-utils in my repos + here: https://launchpad.net/nfs-utils the report a bug link is disabled for me, could I report it somewhere else?
<larsu> Laney: if you have a 14.04 vm around, can you please test the patch I just posted to bug #1448969? Resizing columns in nautilus' list view is impossibe if the horizontal scrollbar is visible (possible SRU)
<ubot5> bug 1448969 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 can't resize treeviewcolumn" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448969
<larsu> (bbiab)
<pitti> hikiko: ah, it's ubuntu-bug nfs-common, sorry; nfs-utils is the source package
<hikiko> ok :)
<Laney> larsu: not sure, but I can get one easy enough, thanks!
<larsu> Laney: cool thanks. Let me know if it works for you so that I can SRUify
<hikiko> pitti, when i use ubuntu-bug nfs-common it's different than with other packages it doesn't ask me to fill the bug details etc it generates an automated bug report I think
<pitti> hikiko: right, and it opens a LP page with the bug reporting, as usual
<hikiko> no
<hikiko> that's the weird
<pitti> hikiko: it's pretty much like +filebug, except that it automatically attaches extra info
<hikiko> yes pitti i used it a while ago for the other bug
<hikiko> just in nfs-common
<hikiko> it doesnt open that win
<hikiko> and doesn't ask me to login
<hikiko> I don't know why
<pitti> hm, works here; it collects info for a few secs, then shows the collected data, I press "Send" and get directed to LP
<hikiko> do i have to be root? I guess that's not the problem
<pitti> hikiko: if anything else fails, you can also use https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+filebug, but it's really supposed to work with ubuntu-bug too
<pitti> hikiko: no, you don't
<hikiko> ok ok pitti it worked the 4th time just the page needs some time
<hikiko> sorry :)
<pitti> hikiko: right, it does
<pitti> no worries :)
<xclaesse> seb128, upgraded to vivid today, (14.04->15.04 went fine with a simple dist-upgrade). Was still wondering what's the plan to integrate GtkHeaderBar with unity?
<xclaesse> seb128, here is how I see gedit (build from source), same with devhelp (as packaged in vivid): http://people.collabora.com/~xclaesse/tmp/gedit.png
<seb128> xclaesse, we integrate them better now, like decorations are on the right side and looks like our theme, but it's only so much we can do
<seb128> not sure about the issue in your particular screenshot, larsu or Laney probably know about the gedit situation better
<xclaesse> seb128, I guess it's impossible to move the GtkHeaderBar inside the unity panel like you guys do with the menu ?
<seb128> not really no
<xclaesse> seb128, problem is that maximised we get 2 bars...
<seb128> yeah, that's the app design, talk to the gedit upstreams...
<larsu> xclaesse: ya, this is the #1 reason we don't use header bars. I have a patch for gedit upstream that makes it use a traditional title bar
<larsu> but it's a bit weird without a tool bar
<xclaesse> larsu, seb128: sooner or later all GNOME apps are going to have the same thing
<larsu> xclaesse: we know
<xclaesse> IMO their design is ridiculous, but unity will have to deal with it I guess :(
<larsu> their design is pretty good actually
<larsu> it just doesn't fit well with unity
<larsu> patch is at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741904 if you're interested
<ubot5> Gnome bug 741904 in general "Finish up support for traditional menubar" [Enhancement,New]
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, well as an user you can decide to user other apps that the GNOME ones ;-)
<larsu> seb128: that's true, but we should strive for a good experience for the default apps
<xclaesse> larsu, hm, I build gedit with the patch from bugzilla, didn't change anything. Probably did something wrong :/
<larsu> xclaesse: hm, weird. I wanted to update that patch a bit anyway. I'll have a look later today or tomorrow
<seb128> larsu, right, I'm just saying that there is only so much we can do if designs conflict
<larsu> seb128: indeed
<xclaesse> larsu, ah forget me, there were conflict when apply the patch that I didn't resolve :p
<larsu> hehe :)
<qengho> Hi all. I'm trying to make chromium-browser do two new things. I would like your help in trying the new chromium packages in Stage PPA. ppa:canonical-chromium-builds/stage
<qengho> Who's interested in yesterday's Cr release? New hot v42! Anyone?
<willcooke> qengho, o/  (i'm on 14.04 still though)
<qengho> willcooke: Oh, I have to support that too. It's in there.
<willcooke> woot
<willcooke> I'll add the PPA tomorrow morning then so I dont lose where I am today
<kenvandine> willcooke, 14.04?  you're so old school
<willcooke> word
<willcooke> I've got a dog food VM
 * kenvandine waves to desktop :)
<willcooke> and I will update this machine, but I want a fresh install
<willcooke> so, ya know, backups
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> seb128, i copied code from unity-scope-click that should fix that bad framework bug, working on getting a build to test now
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, \o/
<kenvandine> more duplicated code... grrr
<seb128> yeah :-/
<kenvandine> the good news is there is a spec being worked on this week to fix that problem :)
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> but in the mean time we need to keep the updates plugin working
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> dobey mentioned previously that we should use the scope service to install or something
<seb128> or the wrapper they have
<seb128> rather than manually deal with it
<Laney> click got an API
<xclaesse> outch, google map on firefox with ubuntu vivid is utra slow
<xclaesse> with chrome it's perfect
<Laney> larsu: I get a segfault in the testsuite with your backport
<Laney> on 3.10
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, google streetview is un-usable in firefox for me for over a cycle, dunno why
<seb128> it takes like 30s to display one frame
<seb128> webgl or something not working there I guess?
<xclaesse> seb128, it's not only street view, it's also panning the map
<xclaesse> seb128, was working fine on 14.04 afaik
<seb128> well, maybe same issue
<xclaesse> looks like unaccelerated webgl
<seb128> I'm sure maps requires a lot less rendering
<seb128> streetview is just the same issue pushed further
<xclaesse> yeah
<Laney> larsu: looks like b4282e5ef, trying that
<larsu> Laney: thanks
 * larsu didn't run it (sorry)
<Laney> that's what packagers are for
<larsu> :)
<davmor2> seb128: it's the if "ua=firefox: run_speed=dead_slow" at the top of all google code right ;)
<seb128> right
<Laney> looks good
 * Laney builds it properly with this
<xclaesse> seb128, fishgl.com is ultra slow as well
<xclaesse> seb128, on fedora with same firefox version, it works perfectly
<seb128> xclaesse, same version = binary from upstream, or same version but distro builds?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any known issue with firefox/webgl on Ubuntu?
<xclaesse> seb128, I mean the about dialog says "37.0.2"
<xclaesse> distro rebuild it I guess
<seb128> xclaesse, what if you go in about:config and set webgl.force-enabled  to true?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no idea - about:support says it's blacklisted with my drivers
<chrisccoulson> I'd ask upstream if I were the Firefox maintainer :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you still are the defacto one :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<xclaesse> seb128, it's much better, but still slow
<xclaesse> seb128, I get 25fps with the force-enabled
<xclaesse> in chrome I get 60fps
<seb128> xclaesse, how about firefox on fedora?
<seb128> is that on the same box?
<chrisccoulson> webgl has always been slow with Firefox because it's using a software compositor
<xclaesse> it's on my collegue's laptop, will ask to test again when he has time
<seb128> k
<chrisccoulson> which means it uses glReadPixels for webgl
<seb128> xclaesse, I assume you get the normal firefox speed now, chrome(ium) is probably just more performant
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> our phone browser runs webgl better than firefox btw
<seb128> :-)
<chrisccoulson> just thought I'd get that in there
<seb128> good to know!
<seb128> we should pay some free beer to whoever is working on that :p
<chrisccoulson> Yeah, that's a good idea :)
 * willcooke -> EOD
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-30
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are the ice creams nowdays?
<pitti> didrocks: wonderful! although I didn't have any yesterday
<pitti> my wife is away for two days, and eating ice cream alone just isn't the same
<pitti> but I feel my left arm and legs from Basketball yesterday (after 3 weeks)
<didrocks> I understand you :) but a day without an icecream is it still really a day ?
<didrocks> ahah :)
<pitti> didrocks: it is, but for sure not a good one!
<larsu> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu & desktopers
<hikiko-lpt> hello :)
<didrocks> hey larsu, seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey hikiko-lpt
<didrocks> morning hikiko-lpt
<hikiko-lpt> hi seb128 didrocks :)
<didrocks> todays is visual studio in ubuntu make day!
<didrocks> if someday someone would have preditected that some version of visual studio will be available on linuxâ¦
<larsu> didrocks: ya. craziness
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I didn't know that was a thing!
<seb128> in fact seems it's "visual studio code" and a new IDE not visual studio proper?
<seb128> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/29/visual_studio_code/
<seb128> nice ubuntu/unity screenshot ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's a version of visual studio for the web
<seb128> oh, web?
<seb128> I though it was for mono
<didrocks> supports node and javascript as well
<seb128> the news focus on .NET
<didrocks> well, .NET is mainly for the web as well
<didrocks> https://code.visualstudio.com/
<didrocks> "Build and debug modern web and cloud applications."
<seb128> that url doesn't work here
<didrocks> interesting, you are blacklisted!
<seb128> seems so
<seb128> "Firefox ne peut trouver le serveur Ã  l'adresse code.visualstudio.com."
<didrocks> definitively works here
<didrocks> even on some browser like firefox :p
<seb128> "To prove that Microsoft still loves Linux, the company demonstrated a Mono application being edited in Visual Studio Code on Ubuntu today."
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> I guess they mean asp.net by mono application
<seb128> Ubuntu demoed by Microsoft at their conf, kind of cool ;-)
<didrocks> but yeah, really cool!
<didrocks> it's running well, time to build support into Make!
<seb128> great
<didrocks> ok, the "direct" eurostar is taking more than changing in Lille
<didrocks> (and it's arriving at 22:12)
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: I think https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/linustorva381582.html was from around 1991; took a while, but I think we can safely say it's true now :)
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, indeed :)
<didrocks> seb128: still didn't get a link? I wonder if it's just because you have an x68 machine (they don't seem to have a download available for you)
<willcooke> morning
* mitya57 changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<didrocks> seb128: the website is down for me as well now FYI
<larsu> same here (worked earlier)
<didrocks> larsu: I was blaming my code first :p
<didrocks> (support ready, then wanted to have a run before implementing mock tests)
<larsu> wow you're fast ;)
<didrocks> I wonder who did this framework to add new support so flexible while being nicely testedâ¦ OH WAIT! :)
<larsu> hehe
<lng> Hi! I have two monitors, but both show the same output and it's detected as one in Displays section. I use Gnome. Here is more details: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2273883&p=13265949#post13265949
<didrocks> let me add the large tests in between (even if I can't really test it for now)
<didrocks> and large test implemented ;)
<seb128> didrocks, sorry was afaik for a bit, glad to see it's not only me ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: not glad for me, it's blocking me now :p
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> seb128: we could had it with full tests in a couple of hours! Now, we won't :p
<seb128> you should have downloaded the site while it was up to be able to mock it/work offline :p
 * didrocks creates some mock ssl certificates on code.visualstudio.com for medium tests meanwhile
<didrocks> some people are reporting it's crashing on trusty though
<willcooke> lng, this is a developer channel rather than a support channel - you would be best to ask in #ubuntu where people who know about this sort of thing will be
<Laney> hullo
<willcooke> what ho Laney
<willcooke> damn it window focus
<larsu> willcooke: welcome to the wonderful world of compiz
<willcooke> time to explore "focus follows mouse again"
<willcooke> or can't I do that in Compiz?
<Laney> thanks mitya57!
<larsu> willcooke: probably there's a plugin for that :P
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks et willcooke
<Laney> what up?
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, think about enabling locally integrated menu though (if you care about reaching your menus)
<Laney> hud!
<larsu> hi Laney!
<larsu> didrocks: oh shit good point :)
<larsu> didrocks: I guess you could still get at them with Alt-Something
<didrocks> larsu: I know some QA guy who had to stop using ffm when Unity came around because of that precise reason :p
<didrocks> or rather "a QA guy"â¦
<Laney> hey larsu!
<larsu> didrocks: you mean *the* qa guy ;)
<didrocks> right, *the* one ;)
<larsu> seb128: I don't know about bug #1445540
<ubot5> bug 1445540 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "GTK draws its own (double) window decorations under Mir" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445540
<seb128> hey willcooke & Laney
<larsu> seb128: we won't have default gtk apps on unity8, right? I suggest just going with upstream headerbars
<seb128> larsu, I think it's an unresolved question, until unity8 displays decoration (if it does) we should keep the csd
<seb128> larsu, how does that work with unity8 if they display decoration? same issues than we currently have in u7?
<larsu> seb128: johnlea said unity8 will allow csd and ubuntu apps will use csd
<larsu> seb128: this might be a development/design not in sync issue actually
<seb128> larsu, k, so close it as invalid?
<seb128> or just let it triaged and ignore it
<larsu> seb128: I'll comment and leave it to wishlist
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<willcooke> qengho, running Version 42.0.2311.135 Ubuntu 14.04 (64-bit)
<willcooke> qengho, still get the crash at startup
<willcooke> seb128, I've got a "The application Chromium Web Browser has closed unexpectedly." window up.  There's a load of debugging info in there
<willcooke> is there a text file equivilent somewhere?
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> /var/crash
<didrocks> yeah, just open it and read if you want to ensure we didn't see how which tabs you were :p
<willcooke> lol
<willcooke> I'll upload it somewhere and send a private link to qengho
<seb128> willcooke, right
<seb128> willcooke, you can also apport-retrace it locally to provide a backtrace
<willcooke> oki - can I do that later on, or do I have to do it now?
<willcooke> like
<willcooke> if qengho wants me to do it in a few hours, will the data still be there?
<didrocks> as long as you keep the .crash and you don't upgrade libraries, you will be able to retrace
<willcooke> cool, thx
<didrocks> yw
<didrocks> nice, I receive different kind of error page on visual studio website everytime I try a download from it
<didrocks> they are clearly working on it: http://pastebin.com/LXbdtset
<didrocks> (a mono stacktrace, asp verbose mode enabled)
<willcooke> ha
<flexiondotorg> I'm the lead for Ubuntu MATE. If I wanted to make LIM an option what libraries/settings do I need to incorporate?
<didrocks> I guess it's a question for Trevinho ^
<didrocks> ok, the site is back up, the remaining crash was due to user agent (which put the server in error)
<didrocks> so using chromium user agent for now in make
<willcooke> didrocks, o_O
<willcooke> didrocks, so Ubuntu support isn't quite what it should be?
<didrocks> willcooke: well, it's more their server-side doesn't handle no user agent, so not a biggie
<willcooke> ah, I see
<didrocks> willcooke: I would be interested in someone trying on trusty though
<didrocks> I read on the net that it's crashing
<willcooke> sure, what do I do?
<didrocks> ok, large and medium tests work \o/
<willcooke> woo
<didrocks> let me wrap that in nice commit messages and pushing it
<didrocks> then, you can have a try
<willcooke> :D
<didrocks> willcooke: ok, so:
<didrocks> 1. git clone https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make
<didrocks> 2. cd ubuntu-make
<didrocks> 3. bin/umake web visual-studio-code
<didrocks> path, accept licence, and so onâ¦
<willcooke> ImportError: No module named 'bs4'
<willcooke> installing bs4...
<willcooke> Now installing the Python 3 version...
<willcooke> ;)
<willcooke> fixed
<didrocks> willcooke: oh, I thought you had ubuntu-make installed (and so all deps :p)
<willcooke> I guess it's on my vm
<didrocks> makes sense
<willcooke> WORKS!!!!
<willcooke> well
<willcooke> LOADS!!!
<didrocks> hehe :)
<didrocks> let's see once installed
<willcooke> I quite like it
<didrocks> willcooke: so, it's basically atom under the wood
<didrocks> (yeah you have another installation of chromium)
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> ok, so let's release it and write a blog post I guess
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> Now *thats* snappy
<jcastro__> didrocks, man awesome, I'm in malta and came in and wanted to see if someone wanted to do the new ide
<jcastro__> you rock
<willcooke> damn straight
<didrocks> heh, thanks guys!
<didrocks> uploaded to the ppa (vivid, utopic, trusty), waiting for publication before getting the blog post out
<willcooke> \m/
<Laney> \m/ >_< \m/
<willcooke> excellent
<didrocks> published in the ppa, blog post and g+ post done :)
<didrocks> davidcalle: waow!
<didrocks> I guess it's a new record, sharing in <5s :p
<willcooke> didrocks, congrats
 * davidcalle is actually a bot
<didrocks> :)
<willcooke> qengho, anecdotal information about new Cr from the ppa:  there seems to be a lot more screen tearing
<willcooke> when scrolling up and down pages esp.
<qengho> willcooke: huh. How many "GPU crashes" did you see per day, previously?
<willcooke> crashes, only at start up
<willcooke> once it was running, it was solid
<flexiondotorg> Has someone some pointer on how I might be LIM working in Ubuntu MATE? I've installed all the *appmenu* packages. But nothing. Guessing I might need to export some environment variables?
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: as told earlier this morning, let's wait for Trevinho to be around, I don't know if the code is in unity or if the decorator with LIM support is in compiz itself, he would know
<Trevinho> didrocks: oh, I'm around... I just didn't see any ping :o
<didrocks> Trevinho: there were at least one :p
 * Trevinho now does
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, See above :)
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: I've seen it...
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: so... for ubuntu mate you need to implement it by scratch mostly
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: the only thing you can get from unity-panel-service is the full list of menus around
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: but then you've to make gtk-window-decorator to support them, and it's not easy, considering how it's done (that's why I wrote a new decorator from scratch for unity)
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: the unity decorator is not a separate plugin from unity..
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, All understood. So, I don't need of of the appmenu stuff?
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: but....... in theory you might create a new compiz plugin from scratch using most of of its code (as it doesn't depend much on unity code).. But you could use Libunitycore
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, I need unity-panel-service running and gtk-window-decorator adapted to display the menus?
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: indicator-appmenu is used, but via unity-panel-service
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Is indicator-appmenu required if I am only interested in lIM?
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: well... not sure you're already using unity-panel-service for indicators... In case you do, you can just re uset it.
<flexiondotorg> *LIM?
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: otherwise no, you can use directly indicator-appemnu
<Trevinho> appmenu*
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: yes...
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: it exposes you the menus  of the focused app or, of every app (depending on the environment variables you set)
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, OK, so this menu introspection is used elsewhere in Unity too?
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: mhmh, no... In unity we have unity-panel-service which loads libappmenu (with the others) and talks to LibUnityCore wich abstracts the indicators...
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: this was needed at the time we also had unity2d/unity3d... to allow code reusage
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: then, we use these things in two sides: PanelMenuView which handles the menus when an app is maximized, and in DecoratedWindow wich is the new decorator code
<Trevinho> for (restored windows)
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Thanks for such a detailed replay. Very useful. Thanks you.
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: let me know if you need further explainations...
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: in case you'd like to create a new decorator, and share the code with the unity one we might create a library maybe...
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, I will do. I've filed those notes and will do some research to better understand how this all integrates.
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: the way we do things is not the "most optimized" so far because of this service around, but it still helps to solve some issues (such has handling the lockscreen better), but in general code should be quite self-explainatory
 * Laney mews
<xclaesse> seb128, was thinking about the inconsistent GtkHeaderBar in unity when the window is maximized. Here is what I currently get: http://people.collabora.com/~xclaesse/tmp/window-decoration-maximized.png
<xclaesse> seb128, on the left it is nautilus maximized (no GtkHeaderBar afaik), on the right it is devhelp maximized
<seb128> xclaesse, right, I know
<xclaesse> seb128, the theme could just hide close/max/min buttons
<seb128> we could remove the decoration from the headerbar in those cases I think
<xclaesse> seb128, and theme it as a toolbar
<seb128> that would display a standard toolbar
<xclaesse> and that would solve the problem, no?
<seb128> yeah, I guess so
<seb128> larsu, Laney, ^ would that be easily doable?
<xclaesse> there are little size/padding differences as well, even in the windowed state, but that's cosmetical, probably just a few values to tweak in the css
<Laney> we already want to remove the buttons
<Laney> don't know about re theming
<seb128> xclaesse, I think it's not that easy, larsu looked at it and gtk doesn't let you use lower padding
<xclaesse> probably because they are in the same GtkHBox than other widgets in the headerbar which force it to have bigger height
<xclaesse> or something like that... anyway that's cosmetical, if we can already hide decoration buttons when maximised that would improve it a lot already :)
<seb128> right
<xclaesse> atm only devhelp seems to have that issue, in the apps I'm using, but more will come in upcoming GNOME releases
<seb128> gnome-system-log in vivid has the issue
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I had a look at that libreoffice 4.4 crash on close ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, did that result in anything useful?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: in a cruel twist of fate, it was caused by the fix for another crash on close. Will look into this with the author of the commit. https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84935
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 84935 in BASIC "Intermittent crash on exit" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> Sweet5hark, how did you manage to nail it down to that commit without being able to reproduce?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: looked at the stacktrace and the git log.
<seb128> good :-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: Often that is not helpful, but in this case it was. ;)
<jcastro> didrocks, hey so the wiki and github descriptions of umake need to be updated
<jcastro> it doesn't list like the categories you can use, etc. makes it seem like it's only for android sdk
<larsu> xclaesse: we can't hide those buttons
<larsu> xclaesse: and even if we could, moving the rest of the headerbar content around is a bit weird imo
<xclaesse> larsu, cannot be worse than current state ;-)
<larsu> xclaesse: which current state?
<larsu> ?
<Laney> less weird than showing the buttons twice
<Laney> buuuuuuuuuut </headerbars>
<larsu> yeah...
<xclaesse> larsu, currently buttons are duplicated
<xclaesse> larsu, maybe GtkHeaderBar should have a "toolbar" mode where it only show custom widgets
<xclaesse> because that's really what it is, once you remove all info that unity panel already display, GtkHeaderBar becomes a toolbar
<larsu> xclaesse: I don't know. Lots of applications use the center of the header bar as a title
<larsu> and having 2 titles looks weird
<didrocks> jcastro: I don't think we should update the category, but rather point to --help (and tab completion) which does all the thing), but good point, I'll reword to not make it sounds like it's for android sdk only
<xclaesse> larsu, title can/should be removed from the headerbar is well
<larsu> xclaesse: then it looks empty (see current evince)
<xclaesse> larsu, should have a way to tell GtkHeaderBar "my WM already show title and close button, please hide them"
<larsu> xclaesse: how about epiphany then?
<larsu> where title and locationbar are the same?
<didrocks> larsu: evince> not empty, there is this awesome "open file" icon
<didrocks> </friday> :)
<xclaesse> larsu, it's custom widget => keep it
<larsu> xclaesse: how do you know if it's a custom widget?
<larsu> didrocks: :P
<xclaesse> larsu, GtkHeaderBar API knows it
<larsu> xclaesse: not saying this can't be done, but it's hacky
<xclaesse> widget you add with gtk_header_bar_set_custom_title() or gtk_header_bar_pack_start() must be kept in the hypotetical "toolbar" mode, the rest hidden
<larsu> ugh, magic
<larsu> but then, gtkheaderbar is already a mess
<larsu> anyway, not sure we want this in unity at all
<larsu> still have the argb window problem, for example
<xclaesse> unless ubuntu wants to rewrite all GNOME apps, you'll have to deal with it, no?
<larsu> we are
<Laney> we change default apps to not use them
<xclaesse> doesn't macosx has the same issue ?
<larsu> xclaesse: I've been advocating to add proper support for csd windows in compiz for years
<larsu> xclaesse: nothing happened yet
<xclaesse> I think gtk upstream should have some support for the unity case
<Laney> personally would vote for trying the hiding buttons thing (see if it really is weird) and leave the other stuff
<larsu> it does
<larsu> and my patch adds it to gedit as well
<larsu> not sure why it's still not applied
 * Laney goes out, bbl
<larsu> I guess because there's a toolbar missing
<larsu> but that's what it looks like on osx today
<xclaesse> IMO patching every single app isn't a brillant idea, should try to get GtkHeaderBar widget handle the unity/maxos case
<larsu> I agree
<xclaesse> IMO a "toolbar-mode" property where all non-custom widgets are hidden makes sense
<larsu> no
<larsu> that's just stupid
<xclaesse> then unity could set that property when maximized, and theme it as a toolbar
<larsu> it should be automatic
<xclaesse> yeah, or have it know what the WM wants
<larsu> right
<larsu> so another xsetting?
<xclaesse> something that tells "I already dispaly close/max/min buttons and the title if it's not custom widget, please hide them"
<larsu> "but only when maximized"
<larsu> this is weird
<larsu> I'd rather just keep the traditional title bar for now
<xclaesse> I guess the theme css can know if it's a GtkHeaderBar inside a maximized window, then make the background like toolbar's
<larsu> until we see how (and *if*) unity design deals with csd in the future
<larsu> xclaesse: you can't properly hide widgets from css (only make them invisible, which means you'll still be able to click)
<larsu> also, the theme doesn't know which desktop it runs on
<larsu> unless we finally give in and tie desktop env and theme together
<xclaesse> larsu, yep that's why hiding widget must be done by GtkHeaderBar widget itself (via a property, or a xprop, or whatever). The ubuntu theme should just deal with the background of the headerbar that looks weird when maximized and make it lool like toolbar
<larsu> xclaesse: ah, right
<larsu> I've been planning on doing that anyway
<xnox> I'm done with O_CLOEXEC -> i aggree
<larsu> not sure if people will like that, since it will change the look of many apps
<larsu> for example, nautilus
<xnox> desrt: ^
<xclaesse> larsu, nautilus' toolbar maximized looks correct to me, it continues nicely the unity panel, no?
<larsu> xclaesse: it's a technically a header bar, so it would get restyled if we implement your proposal
<larsu> xclaesse: see how this is a shitty problem? We've been talking about this for a while now. Don't even get me started on supporting LIM on windows with csds
<larsu> which is more or less impossible
<larsu> but people like it, so there goes
<didrocks> xnox: hum, what happened with O_CLOEXEC?
 * didrocks does use it
<xnox> didrocks: i've hit a race with it -> http://gtk.10911.n7.nabble.com/I-m-done-with-O-CLOEXEC-td86719.html
<xclaesse> larsu, it's already a GtkHeaderBar in nautilus? the background looks different to devhelp's: http://people.collabora.com/~xclaesse/tmp/maximized.png
<larsu> xclaesse: ambiance styles it differently if it's not a titlebar
<didrocks> xnox: interestingâ¦ we should definitively forbide multithreading and be back to one processor as well :)
<xclaesse> xnox, IIRC glib itself is done with CLOEXEC
<xclaesse> wasn't desrt taking about it recently?
<didrocks> xclaesse: I guess that's the link he posted above
<xnox> xclaesse: see thread i linked. yes it's about glib, and that desrt will stop doing it =)
<xclaesse> ok :)
<xclaesse> larsu, checking GtkHeaderBar API, there is already "show-close-button" property. So one step is to make that vie a style property, right?
 * xclaesse is not familiar with GTK's CSS, dunno what it can do, like having a different class for when widget's window is maximized
<larsu> xclaesse: please don't add this API yet. Unity is *not* ready for this yet
<xclaesse> larsu, unity's UI is going to change that much ?
<larsu> xclaesse: wtf?
<larsu> xclaesse: it won't
<larsu> it's not ready for the reasons I stated above: LIM and argb windows not getting shadows
<xclaesse> so why shouldn't we care yet about making GtkHeaderBar look good ?
<xclaesse> not getting background is another orthogonal issue, no?
<larsu> not getting a shadow is a no go
<larsu> we will always patch in a title bar if that is the case
<larsu> srsly. Don't add API in gtk for unity if unity doesn't use the features yet
<larsu> step one should be to fix unity
<xclaesse> if you say so... just though they are 2 unrelated things that can be fixed in parallel
<larsu> nah, sadly not
<larsu> gotta run now, sry
<xclaesse> larsu, ok :-)
<desrt> xnox: fight the system!
<CardinalFang> So quiet in here today. I guess we fixed all the bugs.  :(
<ogra_> snappy ate them
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-01
<Beret> hi
<Beret> I have a rather silly question
<Beret> I'm trying to determine why the default runlevel in vivid appears to be 5 rather than 2
<Beret> a dist upgrade from u to v seems to have changed the default to 5
<Beret> anyone know?
<RAOF> Beret: Probably a side effect of the systemd switch?
<Beret> likely, I'd like to know if it's intentional/remaining or a side effect of the upgrade specifically
<Beret> I have some scripts that depend on the runlevel and I wanted to confirm before updating them
<RAOF> Beret: If it's not listed in the release notes then it's not likely intentional.
<RAOF> Also: is that the default runlevel if you use the (upstart) grub menu item?
<willcooke> guess y'all on holiday today then
<willcooke> I'm off on Monday
<willcooke> (as in the UK)
<Laney> yo
<Laney> i am not!
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> I was thinking about doing a swap of the bank holiday to friday so I can do an election all nighter
<willcooke> ha!
<willcooke> popey was doing an all nighter too
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> what really happens is that on Monday morning I decide that a lie in is the most important thing to do :P
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> qengho, browser started without crashing this morning, but was an uncontrolled test
<popey> \o/ election
<popey> not something i say often
<willcooke> For the local election is very easy, we have an independent and he's doing a first rate job
<willcooke> he's also very good at pointing out the massive mistakes made by the big party councillors
<willcooke> I say mistakes
<willcooke> giving contracts to your husbands company, that kind of thing
<willcooke> ya know, mistakes
<Laney> finger slipped, oops
<willcooke> despicable bastards, the lot of 'em
<Laney> went to a hustings last night, one of the independents was laying into the previous MP (who didn't bother to turn up) for being parachuted into a safe seat after he lost his old one
<willcooke> didnt turn up?
<willcooke> classy
<Laney> he sent some councillor in his place
<willcooke> ha
<Laney> who just kept going on about his own work
<Laney> bit of a failure
<willcooke> I'm coming to terms with the idea that Borris might be in charge of the country in 4 years time
<willcooke> it'll be a hilarious caper
<willcooke> yeeeeeesssssss
 * willcooke downloads the 15.04 torrent at 10.5 MB/sec
<willcooke> NB: Bytes
<willcooke> this is good for being in the sticks
<Laney> need to rewire this house
<willcooke> cat5e all the way
<Laney> 100mbit internet, but powerline network can't do it all
<Laney> get 60ish
<willcooke> not bad, they've come a long way
<willcooke> but they still suck
<willcooke> compared to cat5
<Laney> previous house used to max it out
<willcooke> nice!
<Laney> that was a new build
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> so it's a mains wiring thing?
<Laney> guess so, noisy or something?
<willcooke> that'll be costly
<willcooke> might as well be cat5 in while you're at it :)
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> can't think how to put it in without trailing wires or replastering
<Laney> on the outside & via the cellar?!?!?!
<willcooke> IMO, if you're planning to stay there for a while
<willcooke> do it properly and re-plaster
<willcooke> it's not *that* nad
<willcooke> bad
<willcooke> plus the mess they will make taking the old stuff out will need fixing anyway
<willcooke> so you're gonna have to plaster anyway
<willcooke> it might be that the last time they put trunking or conduit in
<willcooke> so some of it might be able to be pulled in without making any mess
<Laney> yeah I was thinking of avoiding doing that at all if possible
<Laney> but then again some of the rooms need doing anyway
<Laney> ALSO it just occurred to me that there's coax coming in here for a TV aerial that's unused
<Laney> might be able to move the modem upstairs
<willcooke> is that where your study is?
<Laney> yep
<willcooke> plus a case of getting it out of the living room I guess?
<davmor2> willcooke: study man you are so English, people call it an office nowadays ;)
<Laney> might be able to take it back through the wall where the installer put it in
<Laney> then extend it up to join this one
<willcooke> davmor2, :)
<willcooke> cables! cables everywhere
<Laney> would be alongside the existing TV cable
<Laney> so not too hideous...
 * Laney plans
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> Laney, do you know much about the system settings app on the phone in seb128's absence?
<Laney> some, haven't worked on it in a while though --- jgdx is the current man if I don't know
<Laney> what is up?
<willcooke> Laney, there's a meeting at 1500 with Florian, kenvandine and a few others - I've asked desrt to come along, I wonder if you could too?
<willcooke> if it becomes clear you're not needed, just drop
<Laney> okay, what's it about?
<willcooke> just sent the invite - so you know as much as me now :)
<Laney> hmm, righto
<willcooke> qengho, my stored passwords failed to load first load this morning.  Quitting and reloading has fixed
<willcooke> Urgh - The CoOp engergy have a new website
<willcooke> and by the looks of it a new backend billing system
<willcooke> SUCKS
<willcooke> and by the looks of it a new backend billing system
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> window focus catches me out again
<desrt> willcooke: where's the meeting?
<Laney> beneath the railway arches
<desrt> sounds good
<willcooke> ask for "Big Paul"
<Laney> wear a yellow beret so we can identify you
<Laney> (hangout)
<willcooke> msg'd you the link
<Laney> what's this glib-compile-schemas --strict business?
<Laney> seems like it's only going to be used when building packages
<Laney> so the postinst won't be affected
<Laney> k thx
<Laney> nap time
<Laney> happy weekend, see you monday or tuesday. :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-02
<shiznix> hi all, so trying to build some stuff using 16.04 LTS and oxide-qt QML is causing qmlplugindump to break again (see LP# 1332996)
<shiznix> "This is because qmlplugindump selects the minimal Qt platform, which doesn't implement QPlatformNativeInterface, which we depend on for getting the native display handle"
<shiznix> in my instance, having webbrowser-app installed causes content-hub build failure as it calls qmlplugindump
<shiznix> qmlplugindump causes webbrowser-app qml files to call on oxide-qt qml and explodes in the same way as LP# 1332996 :(
<shiznix> so, wondering if you guys are working around this problem in some way, or perhaps need to re-open the bug?
<shiznix> i guess i could ensure webbrowser-app (and any other app depending on oxide-qt QML) is always uninstalled whenever something calls qmlplugindump, but really just wondering if there's a better way?
<shiznix> thanks :)
<andyrock> morning all
<desrt> word up
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<TheMuso> Hey folks, sounds like everybody got back safely.
<andyrock> morning seb128
<seb128> hey TheMuso andyrock, had good flights back?
<andyrock> yeah short and safe
<Sweet5hark> heya desktoppers!
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark! had a good trip back?
<Sweet5hark> trip was nice and quick. On the next day I attended "Tanz in den Mai" at the "Muenchner Hofbraeuhaus" -- all you can eat and lots of bavarian beer for everyone ...
<Sweet5hark> ... but me -- because I decided to stay away from alcohol after Prague.
<seb128> too much drinking in Prague? ;-)
<seb128> but yeah, good to have some rest after a team week!
<Sweet5hark> well, we didnt overdo it in Prague, I think. But I wanted to take it slower after that.
<TheMuso> seb128: Uneventful, so thats good. :)
<Sweet5hark> OTOH staying sober there while everyone else around me was getting drunk in dirndl and lederhosen wasnt making things easier either ;) ...
<Trevinho> Mh, well... I tried to avoid beer in these days... But in order to go back to normality I still need some small daily amount :-D :-D
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hey seb128!
<seb128> had a good trip back?
<seb128> I miss you guys today ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah... Some hacking included. You? :)
<seb128> need to be reused to work without the team!
<seb128> it was early on satuday so I was tired didn't get much done
<seb128> but it was an ok flgiht
<Trevinho> seb128: me too... Unfortunately we had not a table big enough to fit all us, but welll ... yeah, I miss the "office" atmosphere too :)
<seb128> yeah :-/
<Trevinho> seb128: ... and since I was playing with u-s-d, I noticed that tere are some branches that didn't land. Nothing important, but I didn't see they were approved
<seb128> the hotel was alright, but I like being at the office in London better, it has a big table, more nice chairs/other places to set, ac is less agressive, and we don't have people who keep trying to grab your non empty coffee cups or glaces
<seb128> oh, I should have a look to that, thanks for pointing it out
<seb128> I think one of those was a segfault fix from chrisccoulson, would be good to land
<Trevinho> seb128: eheh, yeah.. however "coffee" break here were awesome.
<Trevinho> yeah
<Trevinho> seb128: together with some mine wich I'll post soon
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> seb128: speaking of which.... I was looking at it for two reasons: 1) kbd backlight (for normal case could be an easy fix, while for my laptop it seems that there's some missing kernel events to upower)... 2) org.freedesktop.screensaver. It's not implemented and we really need to redirect it to gnome screensaver api, or thuings like chrome (i.e. netflix)
<Trevinho> won't be able to disable the screensaver.
<Trevinho> as for 2) however I don't know if you prefer to implement it there (I'd say so), or doing it in unity... But I think it's better to use it as a proxy, so that it will work with both unity or gnome screensaver running (which might be still the case when a11y is enabled)
<seb128> the proxy seems fine to me
<seb128> backlight should work iirc
<Trevinho> seb128: the proxy has some unimplemented methods
<Trevinho> seb128: it's there, but it doesn't redirect
<seb128> oh ok, let's fix it then :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16187264/
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, quite asy to do
<Trevinho> seb128: keyboard backlight thing... it works, but... usd doesn't monitor the changes, so it doesn't reset it to the value it was set before (after screensaver, suspend... Othe than after a fresh boot. But this would require a setting that it's probably better to avoid for now)
<Trevinho> seb128: in my case however there could need some upower changes, as I don't get any hw event when it's changed from the keyboard
<Trevinho> a small thing, but still somewhat annoying :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> we should maybe try to rebase the power plugin on the current GNOME version...
<seb128> it has fixes/improvement, it's just quite some changes and there didn't seem to be much buggy behaviour it would fix, most code cleanups/refactoring they did
<Trevinho> seb128: i was doing that some time ago...
<Trevinho> seb128: and I've a branch, but... There was some u-c-c changes involved too, IIRC so it's not so straight forward
<Trevinho> we could try to reduce those, btw
<Trevinho> I could check it again, as I don't remember at which point I was :-D. BUt the code is there
<seb128> yeah, I started doing that a few times as well
<seb128> then decided that it was more work that it was worth
<seb128> I don't remember the specifics now though
<seb128> it might have been that it needed too much control center changes to go with it
<Trevinho> oh, it seems my BAMF change fixed the menu thing...
 * Trevinho fingers crossed
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> good afternoon, pitti
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
 * pitti waves from Austin
<desrt> i'm good.  what's going on in austin?
 * desrt waves from kÃ¶ln
<pitti> desrt: cloud sprint
<pitti> desrt: oh, so we swapped Atlantic shores :)
<pitti> desrt: at larsu again?
<desrt> larsu lives in berlin :)
 * desrt is with mascha
<Trevinho> seb128: do you have any clue why the changes you need in order to get different apport infos for the unity package doesn't seem to apply?
<Trevinho> seb128: i.e. see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1532318 the attached files doesn't include the gsettings or the upstart logs
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1532318 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt-tab only show desktop" [Critical,Incomplete]
<pitti> Trevinho: sorry, which changes?
<Trevinho> pitti: hey
<Trevinho> pitti: well, we changed the unity (and compiz, iirc) apport file in order to get proper logs
<pitti> Trevinho: the hook might crash in the middle, so it might only have the fields up to that certain point
<Trevinho> pitti: well, it might... But I see some files that shouldn't be there, like the compiz gconf one
<Trevinho> pitti: this was the change, btw: https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity/update-apport-hook/+merge/278774
<pitti>     report.add_hooks_info(ui, srcpackage='compiz')
<pitti> Trevinho: the compiz info does get added in current source_unity.py ^
<Trevinho> pitti: I'm not much familiar with such things, but compiz side was in https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/compiz/update-apport-hook/+merge/278835
<seb128> hey desrt pitti, did you have good flights?
<Trevinho> mh, that might be an old report maybe? as new bugs shows more data... mhmh
<desrt> seb128: short and sweet.  yours?
<seb128> had to wake up a bit early but otherwise trip was without issue
<pitti> seb128: yes, went well; terribly tight connection in Chicago (1:15 h only, with immigration and a ~ 25 min security check), but I made it :)
<seb128> great
<pitti> seb128: home sweet home after two weeks? :-)
 * desrt ponders currywurst for lunch
<desrt> (first day in germany, would you honestly expect any other possibility?)
<pitti> desrt: Bratwurst with Sauerkraut or Eisbein? :-)
<desrt> peh
 * desrt is an avowed cabbage-hater
<seb128> pitti, yeah, in fact in France for some days, then no traveling planned for a while :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, unsure, they are there in e.g https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1576310
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1576310 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt-tab only show desktop (#1532318) supplement" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> the apport hook should have been good in that version
<seb128> there was maybe an issue which made the hook stop in the middle as p_itti said
<Trevinho> maybe
<seb128> that bug ^ is the same one and has the info
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, and good work on fixing the menu issue ... it was a bug in bamf then?
<Trevinho> seb128: it seems so
<Trevinho> seb128: looks like it's a race
<seb128> Trevinho, does it had to do with the warnings in e.g https://launchpadlibrarian.net/256917412/upstart.unity-panel-service.log.txt?
<seb128> well I guess not
<Trevinho> seb128:
<seb128> because I've seen such warnings regularly but menus are not missing here
<Trevinho> (unity-panel-service:7533): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_dbus_proxy_call_sync_internal: assertion 'G_IS_DBUS_PROXY (proxy)' failed
<Trevinho> ** (unity-panel-service:7533): WARNING **: Failed to get active window:
<Trevinho> these seems to be related
<Trevinho> however, if they now fails is fine... as once the proxy gives the result out, we still notify with signals
<Trevinho> before I think it was failing the initialization and thus not setting the proxy at all
<seb128> k
<seb128> in fact I don't see those warnings you copied
<seb128> but i've some of those "window_menu_model_new: assertion 'BAMF_IS_APPLICATION(app)' failed"
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, that's another thing that I notice as well.... But not really a problem
<Trevinho> in fact I could have just removed the g_return_if_fail
<dpm> cyphermox, hey - quick question: we had to move some UOS sessions because of Mark's Q&A. We put yours 1h later - does the new time work for you? -> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/2016-05-04/display
<cyphermox> dpm: it's totally fine
<seb128> pitti, why did you had a wily target to bug #1559284? g-s didn't even exist in wily
<ubot5> bug 1559284 in GNOME Software "Increase the number of displayed reviews" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1559284
<pitti> seb128: I didn't (or at least not deliberately), I just was asked to add xenial tasks to the two bugs
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1559284/+activity states that you did ;-)
<seb128> k
<seb128> on thursday
<pitti> seb128: ok, sorry then; deleted
<seb128> no worry, it just confused me
<seb128> was the xenial line for SRU purpose?
<seb128> I guess so
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: yes, mwhudson asked for an SRU
<seb128> pitti, well, the SRU is in since thursday
<seb128> but I guess it makes sense to target the serie which is SRUed
<seb128> though it was already verification-done so in practice it doesn't make much difference
<xnox> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/16195208/
<xnox> pitti, https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/102
<pitti> xnox: bug
<pitti> xnox: bug 1387908
<ubot5> bug 1387908 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[udev] FIDO u2f security keys should be supported out of the box" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387908
<xnox> pitti, /lib/udev/rules.d/70-u2f.rules is shipped by libu2f-host0
<xnox> and it probably shoult "trump"
<xnox> the builtin
<xnox> cause libu2f-host0 probably will get ids before we patch them into systemd
<xnox> pitti, ^
<pitti> xnox: https://developer.github.com/v3/activity/events/types/#pullrequestevent
<pitti> seb128: FYI, bug 1576656 needs a yakkety upload
<ubot5> bug 1576656 in file-roller (Ubuntu) "[SRU] 3.16.5 stable update" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576656
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I plan to, just didn't have any y-system ready to test it while traveling
<seb128> pitti, thanks for reviewing!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-03
<willcooke> morning all
<Sweet5hark1> moin
<desrt> moin moin
<willcooke> hi desrt!
<willcooke> morning Sweet5hark1
<seb128> hey desrt willcooke desktopers
<seb128> how is everyone?
 * desrt is well
<desrt> mmm coffee
 * seb128 already had some
<willcooke> TEA!!
<willcooke> Real tea!!!
 * Sweet5hark1 is still coughing and sneezing. Need to see the doc today.
<willcooke> :((
<willcooke> feel better soon Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> not hugely impacting things, just quite annoying.
<willcooke> seb128, are you going to be at: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22681/convergence-y-replace-upstart/
<seb128> willcooke, yes, though thursday is a bank holiday here, but I guess it's fine if I swap that half a day?
<seb128> (half a day because there are 3 sessions that look interesting on that afteroon)
<willcooke> seb128, bien sur
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> thx
<seb128> yw
<seb128> unity8 desktop session/dev desktop/upstart
<seb128> willcooke, was there any session today you think we should participate to? I might listen to the python3 one and to some of the snappy ones but I didn't see anything were we are likely to be drivers/going to lead work
<seb128> oh, no meeting, I was going to ask about that... :-)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I'm going to try and get some people along to the Py3 one, like barry will probably care, but let's see how it goes.  Other than that, I'm going to listen in to the communty round table and might get involved in the "legacy apps" one with bregma
<seb128> k
<seb128> I'm going to join the snappy interfaces one, since that sounds like we are going to need some of those for the desktop issues
<willcooke> ah yes, I'll add that to my list too
<willcooke> oh, it clashes
<seb128> right
<seb128> since you go to the legacy one I go to snappy
<willcooke> I'll probably listen to the snappy one then and catch up with the community one via a recording
<seb128> wrong slot?
<willcooke> tells me its 1600
<willcooke> is that UTC
<seb128> snappy inteface conflicts with legacy in mir
<seb128> community q&a is at 15
<seb128> oh, right, that clash with python
<seb128> willcooke, just making sure I've my calendar right, but the xdg meeting is at 12utc right?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah
<seb128> good
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, just read bug #1577500 which is an xorg bug + patch, do you think that should be SRUed (or stacked for the next upload)? I'm just pointing for info, unsure how spammy the xorg reports are and if you keep an eye on those
<ubot5> bug 1577500 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Exiting fullscreen in applications utilizing opengl freezes entire screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1577500
<tjaalton> seb128: we already have that in xenial
<seb128> tjaalton, ok, unsure what the user issues is then, might make sense to unsubscribe sponsors
<tjaalton> actually that's what he mentions, I'm not sure it needs to be backported to older releases
<seb128> he said that it should be backported to 16.04, confusing
<tjaalton> oh, right
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> morning TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Hey desktoppers.
<willcooke> early start today ;)
<TheMuso> Nah, thought I'd jump on and say hello, heading to bed in a little, still catching up on sleep. :)
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> night TheMuso!
<seb128> desrt, oh, happy birthday! (almost forgot it was today)
<desrt> thanks seb :)
<willcooke> Ohh!
<willcooke> Happy birthday desrt!
<desrt> and thanks willcooke
 * Sweet5hark1 sneaks in to steal the last piece of the birthday cake.
<Sweet5hark1> desrt: Happy Birthday!
<pitti> Good morning
<willcooke> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: I figure a test build in a y schroot should suffice, not necessary to have a full y desktop
<pitti> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> pitti, doing good thanks, how about you?
<willcooke> nice sunshine here today
<pitti> willcooke: a bit tired, but I forced myself back to sleep after 4 am, mostly okay
<pitti> yesterday was an all-day planning session with Mark, today we should actually get something done :)
<seb128> hey pitti! wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci ! et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I just was busy with other things at the sprint, going to get started on more y things this week
<seb128> Ã§a va bien :-)
<pitti> seb128: btw, was there any outcome about the "form a Xenial maintenance squad" proposal?
<seb128> pitti, btw unsure if you are subscribed to that u-s-d/upower bug, some new comment suggest that the issue is that u-s-d starts before upower, they say that the upower systemd unit can be delayed enough that it's not done by the time the session start
<seb128> they have logs suggesting that as well, the job gets ready after the u-s-d segfault
<seb128> willcooke, ^ did you get to raise the xenial squad topic with others managers?
<pitti> seb128: apparently not, I didn't get followup mail
<pitti> seb128: interesting -- that's not at all what that stack trace looked like
<seb128> I wonder if we have different issues there
<seb128> one of them seems to be upower not ready when u-s-d starts
<pitti> yes, I'm fairly sure about that
<seb128> you said it shouldn't be possible? should one of the libupower calls be blocking and isn't?
<pitti> this stack trace we looked at fitted the "didn't check for lid first" perfectly well
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: I'd expect the connection to the service to either fail or hang, yes
<pitti> as this is still dbus activation
<qengho> desrt: Do you have a complaint with gpg2 --card-edit\nadmin\ngenerate and its "Make off-card backup of encryption key?", instead of keytocard? (I'm not sure if "encryption" is important there.)
<desrt> qengho: this may work but i am not certain that you will get the appropriate subkey relationship
<qengho> Hmm.
<cyphermox> willcooke: hey
<willcooke> cyphermox, hihi
<cyphermox> how do you feel about a logging review session for tomorrow UOS?
<cyphermox> it's scheduled for 18h CDT here or something; it would be nice to have someone from hte desktop team in the session
<cyphermox> desrt: qengho: gpg2 on smartcard?
<cyphermox> desrt: happy b-day :)
<willcooke> cyphermox, sure, we can find someone or some people I think.  Maybe seb128 and/or laney? ^
<cyphermox> the goal is to review what currently logs to syslog and wherever else, see what can be ripped out to do some clean up, where we have error messages that aren't errors, things that are too verbose, etc.
<cyphermox> clearly, there is a balance to catch so that we're not missing things when dealing with bugs, but I'm sure there are some improvements we could do
<qengho> cyphermox: yes indeed. the desrt dispensed some clue last week.
<cyphermox> qengho: cool. I use gpg2 to handle gpg keys on a yubikey too :)
<qengho> My trick to symlink ~/.gnupg to /media/me/someSDCard/gpg seems less clever now.
<cyphermox> that works too, I guess
<cyphermox> except maybe you'll run into some issues with the agent if the agent starts while the symlink is broken? I don't know
<qengho> Speaking of crypto, my Tor snap has only amd64 users (rev "20"). I assumed most would be ARM Ubuntu Core. Huh. https://globe.torproject.org/#/search/query=UbuntuCore
<qengho> "22" would be ARMHF.
<cyphermox> willcooke: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-y-log-cleanup
<seb128> willcooke, cyphermox, time is a bit inconvenient for me but I'm going to try to join for at least the first half of it
<ximion> Laney: looking at quite some bugs like LP: #1575339, it seems like reprocessing the AppStream metadata for Xenial might be a good choice...
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1575339 in scribus (Ubuntu) "Gnome Software catalog entry missing for Scribus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575339
<ximion> (or switching to appstream-generator :D)
<willcooke> ximion, laney is on hols today, but he mentioned last week that he was planning to use/make a new generator
<ximion> willcooke: that would be pretty awesome :) I would advise for not making a new one :P
<ximion> willcooke: even with the old generator though, just updating the data would help some packaged apps, I think
<willcooke> ximion, ack
<ximion> Scribus seems to have been dropped only because the icon wasn't found, and since the icon is actually there, I assume it's only missing because of an out-of-date Contents file, or some other glitch
<Laney> ximion: no way, we can't re-publish a released series
<Laney> I dropped all icon-not-found quite close to the release though
<ximion> Laney: weird, I wonder why that bug appears then...
<ximion> well, in theory one could cheat and add this to the -updates series
<ximion> but meh
 * ximion doesn't like ugly hacks
<ximion> Laney: anyway, I didn't want to drag you out of your work-free time :)
<Laney> no worries
<seb128> Laney, stop IRC with one hand while you are hanging to the climbing wall with the other one :p
<seb128> IRCing
<abel_> helo
<willcooke> anyone know about storaged?  https://github.com/storaged-project/storaged
<willcooke> as in heard of it, aware of it, maybe even have plans for use on Ubuntu?
<seb128> willcooke, heard of it, it might replace udisks, no plan to take on that yet afaik (unsure what it would bring us? we better wait for it to mature in any case)
<seb128> willcooke, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_UDisks2_by_Storaged for reference
<willcooke> seb128, thanks!  Looks like it might be fun to play with
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I expect we are going to get it at some point
<willcooke> plus kind leads on from what we said about needed a disk manager for the desktop.  If that is providing all the APIs - yay!
<willcooke> s/needed/needing
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> well the APis are already there
<seb128> they are just consolidating in one service
<seb128> rather than talking to different components
<willcooke> ah, nice
<willcooke> even better
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> let's keep an eye on it
<seb128> if fedora switches next cycle that means it's getting good enough to be considered
<seb128> willcooke, "The main consumer of Storaged is Cockpit" ... it's a lars_u thing ;-)
<willcooke> seb128, I did wonder :)
<willcooke> qengho, fun fact... I *can* sign in to my Google account in Chrome.
<willcooke> right, EOD.  Gonna start later tomorrow (maybe, dependant on children) since it'll be another later one tomorrow
<willcooke> erk big netslpit
<willcooke> gnight
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-04
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Hi, hope your second leg of your trip home was uneventful.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, sure was. Did you have to wait long for assistance?
<TheMuso> No, made it in plenty of time to the gate.
<desrt> good morning, peeps
<duflu> Morgen desrt
<RAOF> Hey desrt!
<desrt> hello mir people
<RAOF> Looks like there may be a Canadian sprint!
<desrt> the one in vancouver next week?
<duflu> Another/more Canadian sprints
<desrt> cool
<RAOF> It's possible that you'll be invited!
<RAOF> Hm, that sounds weird.
<RAOF> But, obviously, given that it's almost certainly in the week of the 6th of June we haven't actually organised it yet.
<willcooke> morning all
<davmor2> Morning willcooke
<Laney> hello!
<willcooke> hi Laney
<Laney> zup
<Laney> I licked a slug last night
<willcooke> same
<willcooke> why did you do that?
<Laney> it looked like a piece of leek out of the corner of my eye :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
<willcooke> was this on your allotment?
<Laney> then I was like "that was kind of dark"
<Laney> removed it
<Laney> and lo a slug it was
<willcooke> what did is taste of?
<Laney> nein, in the pub
<Laney> hmmm you know I don't actually remember
<Laney> washed it away with a nice pint of mild (H)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<willcooke> morning seb128
<Laney> hi seb128
<willcooke> Laney, very wise move
<Laney> it survived this ordeal and we put it outside
<Laney> needless to say this was disruptive to the ongoing pub quiz
<Laney> seb128: how's it going?
<seb128> good! though a bit tired this morning, but it shapes to be a nice sunny day!
<Laney> looking good here
<seb128> tomorrow is a national holiday
<seb128> shame that we got UOSed :-/
<seb128> oh well, it should still be nice for the w.e
<Laney> swap it to monday?
<seb128> yeah, I'm pondering doing that
<seb128> or friday afternoon
<seb128> going to play some tennis ;-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> what a great sport!
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> how was climbing?
<Laney> getting back into it
<Laney> they seem to have decided to make everything a bit harder
<Laney> so need to improve again ;-)
 * Laney meows at pitti 
<Laney> stable-phone-overlay is destroying autopkgtest
<seb128> I hope he's sleeping :-)
<Laney> the pitti never sleeps
<seb128> it's 3am in austin
<seb128> right
<Laney> sil2100: don't suppose you have anything to upload to the overlay for y?
<Laney> W: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/stable-phone-overlay/ubuntu yakkety Release' does not have a Release file.
<seb128> what is the overlay is creating the issue?
<Laney> E: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/stable-phone-overlay/ubuntu/dists/yakkety/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
<sil2100> Laney: eh, hm, I guess there's one thing I could quickly upload there
<sil2100> A workaround we use for images to work
<sil2100> Give me a moment
<Laney> thanks!
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<andyrock> seb128: begging for a coffee
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> andyrock, I just got one :-)
<sil2100> Laney: ok, there should be something in the overlay now for yakkety
<Laney> sil2100: thanks, lets see if this fixes things
<tseliot> seb128: I've just approved these two merge requests, however I'm not familiar with CI, and I'm not sure what to do next: https://code.launchpad.net/~hui.wang/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon-1404-fix-touchscreen-reconnect/+merge/293700 https://code.launchpad.net/~hui.wang/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon-master-touchscreen-fix/+merge/293704
<willcooke> xnox, Laney - tax returns.  If you want to claim for working from home @ Â£4 a week and you complete an online tax return that information should be added to:
<willcooke> section 4 "Do you wish to claim any employement expenses or capital allowances...."
<willcooke> cking, might be relevent to your interests ^
<Laney> nice info
 * willcooke spent 30 mins on hold to HMRC so that you don't have to
<Laney> I don't do one
 * willcooke <- hero 
<willcooke> ah, no kids, right
<willcooke> yet
<Laney> kids -> tax return????
 * Laney goes to chop it off
<willcooke> child benefit = tax return
<seb128> tseliot, those need to land through CI, but that patch looks hackish ... does the issue exists upstream in g-s-d as well? did anyone try to suggest the change to them?
<willcooke> regardless of whether you claim it, or are entitled to it
<Laney> oh this thing about them paying it then taking it back
<tjaalton> seb128: there is no g-s-d anymore
<tseliot> seb128: I think hardware design is hackish. And we have diverged too much from upstream anyway
<willcooke> Laney, you might try filling this form in then, it's worth a couple of hundred quid... https://public-online.hmrc.gov.uk/lc/content/xfaforms/profiles/forms.html?contentRoot=repository:///Applications/PersonalTax_iForms/1.0/P87&template=P87_en_1.2.3.xdp
<seb128> tjaalton, ?
<tjaalton> isn't it merged to mutter now
<tjaalton> config handling
<tjaalton> or such
<tjaalton> that's why backporting libinput support was "hard"
<seb128> some parts were moved yes
<seb128> but g-s-d still exists
<seb128> the xrandr code might have moved yes
<Laney> willcooke: roger
<Laney> willcooke: didn't get P60 yet though
<seb128> tjaalton, but I expect that " the LG touchscreen will be temporarily disconnected from USB host" is something that need to handled in other codebases as well and I'm curious what solution they are taking for that
<tjaalton> ok
<willcooke> Laney, ah, wheeze of the week then:  nor did I, nor have I had pay slips recently. So I logged on to that online system they mentioned (despite saying we'd still get paper records......) and lo and behold there it was
<seb128> well, if somebody wants to land those, feel free
<seb128> it's just hackish and I'm not putting my name to ack
<seb128> but I'm not going to block others
<tseliot> seb128: I'm not sure upstream handles corner cases..
<Laney> willcooke: heh, I'm avoiding doing that in case it turns off paper ones forever
<seb128> well, they are probably wanting to solve those as well
<seb128> and having input of people who write the code is always nice
<seb128> they might have a better way to suggest
<seb128> but as said if somebody wants to land the hack and if it fixes an oem issue go for it
<seb128> still would be nice to fix the proper way
<tseliot> seb128: also, to be honest, there is a lot of touch screen handling code that we are missing. That would be a much bigger issue for us
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did firefox switch to gtk3 in the 46 update?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it did
<seb128> that explains things :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but the binary still depends on gtk2?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the package does, as it's required for flash
<tseliot> Laney: can you help please?
<om26er> Hi! who maintains openjdk in Ubuntu ?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, k
<seb128> om26er, doko
<tjaalton> seb128: what will unity8 use for session configuration?
<seb128> tjaalton, ubuntu-system-settings
<seb128> the GUI is ^
<tjaalton> ok
<seb128> I don't think there is any u-s-d like service
<seb128> indicators or unity8/mir itself is handling configs
<chrisccoulson> seb128, om26er, I think that's actually tdaitx (openjdk), but he won't be around for a few more hours
<chrisccoulson> seb128, was there a particular issue with firefox?
<seb128> oh ok
<om26er> chrisccoulson, seb128 thanks
<cking> willcooke, thanks, I claim that one ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, widgets look big (combo, buttons) and different, also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1577879
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1577879 in firefox (Ubuntu) "File save as dialog doesn't switch to keyed in path anymore when pressing enter" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> cking, did you ever try claiming for a laptop?
<seb128> which looked like it's using the gtksidebar gtk3 widget
<cking> willcooke, no
<willcooke> me neither, probably not worth it
<cking> willcooke, it's hard to tell, the tax system makes my mind melt a bit
<willcooke> :) ditto
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, this update has certainly had a few issues (eg, http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2936-2/) ;)
<chrisccoulson> My laptop CPU ran nice and cool when I first got it, but it's now hovering around 95Â°C. I wonder if it's going to top 100Â°C by the end of the day?
<Sweet5hark> woha.
<Sweet5hark> the german ministry of education and science just promised to throw 1.2 million EUR at open source projects.
<Sweet5hark> application needs just one din A4 page of project description ...
<ogra_> heh, it only defines the papersize ?
<ogra_> :)
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: media should be readable without the need for quantum mechanic measurement devices.
<ogra_> haha
<davmor2> Sweet5hark: just an electron microscope then :)
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, better clean the fan
<ricotz> seb128, hi, is there already a timeline to land gtk+ 3.20.x in yakkety?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, time to go helicopter shopping?
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: a helicopter is clearly needed!
<willcooke> I concur
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, uh oh https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tag/?id=libreoffice-5.1.3.2
<seb128> ricotz, not sure we are going to get 3.20 this cycle, see bug #1576576
<ubot5> bug 1576576 in Mozilla Firefox "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576576
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, I am aware, are there blockers in the ubuntu-stack besides firefox?
<seb128> ricotz, yeah, see the bug report, mostly the themes
<seb128> xfce, unity ones
<ricotz> seb128, although there are patches for firefox 46+ which hard-dep on gtk+ 3.20
<ricotz> a patch like arch or fedora is shipping already
 * Laney is building 3.20 now to check what happens
<seb128> Laney, ricotz, ochosi commented on IRC/the bug saying that themes basically need a full rewrite :-(
<ricotz> seb128, that is basically correct
<seb128> :-/
<ricotz> at least heavily adjusted to meet the new selector names
<seb128> we need to find somebody wanting to take up on that job
<Laney> we'll see
<ricotz> *cough* switch to Adwaita *cough* ;P
<seb128> sssuuuure
<ochosi> basically the workflow would be this (for someone who would take up the theme):
<ochosi> take adwaita and modify it based on the current light-themes css until you're "there"
<Laney> upgrade, scream, run
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah, that too ;)
<ochosi> ideally i would like to have this: just maintain a delta on top of adwaita
<ochosi> something that just overrides some things in adwaita but doesn't mean i have to maintain a complete theme
<ochosi> (not sure whether anyone has tried that so far, but i think not)
<Laney> maybe one day they'll finish implementing css and then themes won't break any more
<Laney> :) :)
<ochosi> haha, you're funny!
 * Laney cries
 * Laney is downloading an iso to not mess up the real system
<Laney> *.u.c seems slow
 * Laney is getting like 200k/s
<Laney> ah there's some outage going on
 * Laney retracts whining
<ochosi> so there's no planned replacement for larsu?
 * larsu feels spoken about
<Laney> ochosi: you want a job? :P
<Laney> hey larsu!
<larsu> hi Laney! What's up?
<larsu> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> Laney: tbh when i met larsu @fosdem and he told me he was leaving i considered applying ;) then again i wasn't sure what the requirements were
 * Laney is out in the sun
<Laney> ochosi: hehe, well the job advert is not posted yet - look out for it once it is :)
<Laney> pretty sure "is willing to weep over gtk css" would be a positive
<ochosi> harhar
 * ochosi can do that any time of day
<Laney> larsu: getting back into it after many sprints then 2 days off
<Laney> how are you?
<davmor2> willcooke: so there seems to be increasing confusion with ubuntu-software triggering the update notifications, as it doesn't list things like ssl so update-manager shows it and ubuntu-software doesn't but ubuntu-software is the thing triggering notifications :(
<flocculant> ochosi: and do regularly ...
<larsu> Laney: ooh nice. I'm great, thanks!
<larsu> and very much into it. Could use a hackfest :)
 * larsu actually booked flights for one this morning
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, trying my best here ;)
<Laney> larsu: toronto?
<larsu> ya
<larsu> are you coming?
<Laney> nice
<Laney> nah
<Laney> not super relavant to me
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts?
<larsu> hi seb128!!
<larsu> bien, merci
<larsu> et toi?
<larsu> I
<seb128> trÃ¨s bien, merci :-)
<larsu> some people in this channel are seemingly trying to replace me
<larsu> can you imagine!
 * ochosi hides
<larsu> hehe
<seb128> yeah, keywoard "trying"
<seb128> keyword
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> you could always apply for the opening :P
 * larsu doesn't think he can replace himself
<larsu> ELOGIC
<Laney> maybe a small black hole will form
<larsu> wouldn't want to do this to you guys
<larsu> I hear those can be dangerous
<Laney> chuck all the stuff we don't want in there
<Laney> (whoops, sorry unity8!)
 * Laney the troll
<larsu> :D
<larsu> it's Friday!
<larsu> wait. seb128, is it Friday?
<seb128> larsu, not quite!
<seb128> though tomorrow is a day off in some countries
<seb128> and the day before days off is friday
<larsu> it is here, and I took Friday off as wel
<larsu> so it kind of feels like Friday
<seb128> indeed!
<larsu> right. I knew you'd come to the right conclusion
 * larsu always counts on seb128
<seb128> :-)
<chrisccoulson> larsu, you left?
<larsu> chrisccoulson: yes
<chrisccoulson> oh :(
<larsu> in February :)
<chrisccoulson> larsu, what are you up to now?
<larsu> chrisccoulson: working at redhat on cockpit-project.org
<larsu> but right now, I'm up to lunch :)
 * larsu will be back latet
<chrisccoulson> larsu, ah, that looks fun :)
<larsu> it is, thanks!
<xnox> Laney, willcooke, tah! filed one via "personal tax account" already at https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account
<xnox> click click done
<willcooke> \o/
<pitti> Good morning
<Laney> xnox: this is extremely annoying
<Laney> I signed up for a government SSO thing a few months ago but lost the 2fa app when reinstalling my phone
<Laney> and the procedure to get it back is maximally terious
<Laney> tedious
<xnox> Laney, just use another SSO provider ;-)
<Laney> also there are like 6 providers of SSO to this service
<Laney> WHY
<xnox> there are multiple.
<xnox> Laney, vendor indepdant.
<Laney> stupidity dependent
<Laney> what information do I have to choose between them?
<Laney> and why is it a good choice for me to make
<Laney> post office have cached my old 2fa session which I just managed to remove
<Laney> so even after resetting it I'm unable to log in
<Laney> worst. service. ever. </comic book guy>
<flocculant> Laney: oh ... that stuff is worse than that
<GunnarHj> seb128: Time to sponsor bug #1575555 (yakkety and xenial)? We ended up with a better solution than what we discussed here a few days ago, and Debian will do the same.
<ubot5> bug 1575555 in fonts-noto-cjk (Ubuntu Xenial) "Chrome/Chromium use "Thin" as default font weight" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575555
<seb128> GunnarHj, I can have a look but UOS&co so maybe not today
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I see. Today isn't necessary, of course, bug I nudge you since I think it's a pretty bad issue for those affected.
<seb128> GunnarHj, k, I try to have a look in a bit
<bregma> so when we install gedit in a standalone environment (eg. a libertine container) it has no icons anywhere...  seems it is missing a dependency (or even recommends) in its packaging
<willcooke> could be themes which are assumed to be there
<bregma> yes it's definitely themes, but it could at least recommend installing them instead of assuming someone else has taken care of all the work
<bregma> in the coming world, assumptions about any dependencies is just a broken package
<bregma> (except certain key core dependencies like libc)
<willcooke> gnight
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-05
<Laney> hidehi
<willcooke> g'mornin' Laney
<Laney> hi willcooke
<Laney> what go?
<willcooke> last day of UOS
<willcooke> huzzah
<willcooke> think I'm going to get a hair cut this morning
<Laney> changing the world one hangout at a time
<willcooke> you knowns it
<willcooke> knows
<Laney> voted yet?
<willcooke> oh yes!  that too
<willcooke> I shall do so on my hair to get a hair cut I think
<Laney> i went to a hustings last night
<willcooke> I have seen none of the candidates canvasing at all
<Laney> some protesters disrupted it at the end
<willcooke> yay!
<Laney> other than that it was the worst
<Laney> I'm going to spoil my ballot
 * Laney looks at chrisccoulson 
<willcooke> Awesome!
<willcooke> going for the classic "cock and balls"?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I was thinking about appealing to the conscience of the counter
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> "get up and leave the room now"
<willcooke> take the ballots with you and throw them in a pond
<Laney> bloody PCCs
<Laney> anything interesting is "operational" and not a matter for them
<davmor2> willcooke: he's a geek he can't throw, he'll wind up keeping hold of it and throw himself in the pond. Laney don't listen to willcooke he's just trying to get you wet
<willcooke> I meant the counter
<Laney> I could put a steak on a stick and tempt them all into the pond
<davmor2> willcooke: see that's how a geeks brain works :D
<Laney> or maybe my ballot on a rope dnangling over the pond would be more attractive to an election counter
 * Laney votes for davmor2 instead
<davmor2> Laney: Europe is already broke they don't need my help ;)
<willcooke> going to get a haircut, bbl
<Laney> hf
 * Laney gets trello-y
<willcooke> bah, closed
<willcooke> I'll try again tomorrow
<willcooke> screw this, I'm buying an Intel wifi card
<willcooke> oh, 3 quid on ebay
<willcooke> should have done this a long time ago
<andyrock> morning all
<Laney> xnox: NEO doesn't support 4096R?
<Laney> hi andyrock!
<willcooke> hi andyrock
<chrisccoulson> HI Laney
<chrisccoulson> I'm not even bothering with that today - I think it's only PCC elections here.
<chrisccoulson> I don't even know where my polling station is ;)
<Laney> that's all we have too
<Laney> nice walk in the sun if nothing else
<willcooke> man, what is up with the progressbars
<willcooke> the styling isn't being applied properly, and the background colour seems to be defaulting to transparent
<willcooke> I've checked the theme, and the CSS is correct and does apply in the inspector
<willcooke> so must be a specificity thing (again)
<attente> Laney: hey, so g-s is blocked from being sru'd because of this apparently: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/58f08ffc3281621f3df0ae8b636df69edadf0f02. it doesn't seem like it was introduced in the version just uploaded, but it seems like it might be occurring more often than before
<Laney> attente: did you get one of those automated emails?
<attente> Laney: yeah
<Laney> holy early morning
<Laney> attente: doesn't look like a regressio nto me
<Laney> I'd reply and say that
<Laney> don't know what the problem is though, do you?
<Laney> no TagF?
<attente> hard to tell...
<Laney> might be sensible to check that
<Laney> like maybe if the PkgF.Open fails
<Laney> file:///usr/share/doc/libapt-pkg-doc/html/classFileFd.xhtml
<Laney> it returns a bool
<attente> not sure how TagF can be invalid here
<Laney> I think just check at 376 and fail with an error if the Open() doesn't work
<Laney> can't think of another reason
<attente> wouldn't the backtrace fail in the Jump function?
<Laney> other than trying to make a tagfile from a not opened FileFD
<Laney> or a malloc failure or something
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney, and chance you can sponsor bug #1575555?
<ubot5> bug 1575555 in fonts-noto-cjk (Ubuntu Xenial) "Chrome/Chromium use "Thin" as default font weight" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575555
<Laney> GunnarHj: I can look after lunch
<Laney> is it just a case of backporting y to x?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Great. Yes, backporting or upload from PPA - your choise.
<Laney> k
<pitti> Good morning
<willcooke> morning pitti
<pitti> hey willcooke
<willcooke> attente, around?
<dholbach> willcooke, attente: have you seen something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/16237898/ with gnome-software already?
<dholbach> dpm, ^
<dholbach> it looks like I get no apt/dpkg results
<attente> willcooke: hey
<willcooke> heh, so basically, what dholbach said :)
<willcooke> I'm just running through some troubleshooting with dpm now
<dholbach> ah ok
<willcooke> dholbach, is it broken for both of you?  cos wfm
<attente> can you try running it with a strace+grep to see what file it's trying to open?
<dpm> attente, willcooke, is this the right version? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16237931/
<dpm> willcooke, yeah, we were on a call preparing the demo and it's broken for both of us
<willcooke> dpm, correct version
<dpm> attente, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16237826/
<willcooke> dpm, what does "snap find hello" return?
<dpm> Name         Version  Summary
<dpm> hello-world  6.0      Hello world example
<attente> dpm: does this still happen after killing it and re-starting?
<dpm> attente, yes, tried to killall and restart multiple times
<dholbach> attente, output of strace -eopen,stat gnome-software (http://paste.ubuntu.com/16237969/)
<willcooke> dpm, what app are you searching for?
<attente> dpm: can you try doing an apt-cache update and restarting?
<dpm> willcooke, I was just searching "calculator"
<dpm> attente, restarting what?
<attente> dpm: restarting gnome-software
<dpm> attente, I guess you mean 'apt update'? Tried that already
<dholbach> apt update and restarting gnome-software doesn't help in my case
<willcooke> dpm "snap find calculator" == "no snaps found for calculator"
<attente> yeah, sorry
<attente> apt update
<dholbach> I also tried to remove cache/config files of gnome-software, just to be sure it wasn't some old broken config
<dholbach> but that also didn't help
<dholbach> did we catch other bugs which said "failed to start fwupd" somewhere?
<dpm> willcooke, I think that's a known bug with the 'find' CLI command, as the snap name is 'ubuntu-calculator-app', but up until today g-s found it by just searching for "calculator"
<seb128> good afternoon desktopers!
<dholbach> salut seb128
<willcooke> dpm,  and so if you search for "ubuntu-cal" in g-s what happens?
<seb128> hey dholbach
<seb128> dpm, I joined in the middle, but substring matching for g-s/snap query never worked, if that's the topic
<dpm> willcooke, that shows me 2 results now
<dholbach> seb128, tout est cassÃ© :)
<dpm> hey seb128, afternoon!
<seb128> dholbach, oui, snapcrap fault!  ;-)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> for me gnome-software shows no apt/dpkg apps at all
<dholbach> just the snaps I have installed
<xnox> Laney, v4 yes, previous no.
<dpm> seb128, it did work, I have proof! :)
<xnox> Laney, hence it's my sub-key only at 2k
<dpm> seb128, -> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/desktop/get-started/
<xnox> xnox, so yeah.
<Laney> xnox: no neo v4 though?
<xnox> Laney, not yet
<seb128> dpm, maybe before snappy->snapd
<xnox> they switched the vendor and rumour has it, the nfc v4 (or i guess v5 will come)
<seb128> dpm, in any case it's a store issue, not a g-s one
<Laney> nice
<seb128> dholbach, weird, do you have a debuglog to share?
<seb128> the channel is more active that I though
<seb128> today is not a bank holiday in the u.k I guess?
<Laney> hi seb128
<Laney> we had that on monday
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> monday was for the 1st of may right?
<willcooke> dpm, can you install one of the two results you have now?
<seb128> today is assumption day
<seb128> ascension
<seb128> doh
<seb128> dholbach, isn't it a vac for you?
<dholbach> seb128, output of strace -eopen,stat gnome-software (http://paste.ubuntu.com/16237969/)
<Laney> yes it's a replacement one
<seb128> I see
<seb128> dholbach, no normal log?
<dholbach> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/16237898/
<dpm> willcooke, will try in a bit, need to jump on a call, will be filing some bugs :)
<seb128> dholbach, did you try to kill the running instance? that log looks like it's not starting but exiting on favor or an existing one
<dholbach> seb128, yes, several times
<seb128> dholbach, can you kill it and get a log with --verbose?
<dholbach> I also removed its cache and config
<seb128> Laney, did you try helping dholbach already? (I just joined and start wondering how much debugging there was before that)
<willcooke> dholbach, is your issue the same as dpm - in that it used to find ubuntu-calculator if you just searched for "calculator" and now it doesnt?  What happens if you search for "ubuntu-cal" - does it show up then
<Laney> seb128: no, I don't want to join the fight here, I just came back from lunch
<seb128> Laney, k
<Laney> attente was involved
<dholbach> willcooke, 'ubuntu-cal' works for me, my problem is that no apt/dpkg packages are shown
<seb128> dholbach, can you get the verbose log? ;-)
<dholbach> on it
<dholbach> but in a call
<dholbach> attente, seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238226/
<attente> dholbach: anything in /var/cache/app-info?
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238236/
<attente> dholbach: /var/lib/app-info too?
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238249/
<willcooke> dholbach, do you have the U8 session installed as well?
<dholbach> yes
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I wonder
<willcooke> could be the first fall out from the PK thing seb128? When you pull in U8
<seb128> willcooke, I was starting to think the same
<seb128> dholbach, dpkg -l | grep aptdaemon
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238284/
<seb128> dholbach, your full log doesn't have the failed to open error and seems to list quite some content
<dholbach> they went to stderr
<dholbach> they are the same as what's in the log I pasted earlier
<dholbach> seb128, UOS is not a vac :)
<seb128> dholbach, yeah, tell me :-/
 * dholbach hugs seb128 
 * seb128 hugs dholbach back
<seb128> attente, dholbach, everything in that log is kind "unknown"
<seb128> dholbach, when did the issue start?
<dholbach> let me know if there's anything else I can try to do
<dholbach> I don't know - I haven't used it much
<attente> seb128: are you reproducing it too?
<dholbach> I just tried it earlier to prepare for a demo with dpm
<seb128> attente, no
<attente> dholbach: and apt update, killing g-s, starting g-s didn't do anything?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> I was up to date
<dholbach> and restarted my machine even
<Laney> appstreamcli search .
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238415/
<seb128> dholbach, what ubuntu serie do you use?
<dholbach> xenial
<seb128> can you share syslog?
<attente> what's that u8 pk change that happened?
<attente> is it supposed to remove aptdaemon or something?
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238523/
<seb128> attente, it removes the pkgkitcompat layer
<attente> so i'm fully up-to-date. what package should i install to try to reproduce?
<seb128> attente, unsure if that's something where you install a package to reproduce, that was a random guess I think
<Laney> those 'failed to call' messages are probably the thing to debug
<seb128> right
<seb128> dholbach, ls -ld /var/lib/app-info ?
<dholbach> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Apr 19 15:05 /var/lib/app-info
<dholbach> attente, unity8-desktop-session-mir maybe(?), if it's about unity8
<seb128> dholbach,
<seb128> appstreamcli dump vlc.desktop
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16238714/
<pitti> seb128, xnox: meh, got double-booked with a Mark session on our UOS session upstart
<pitti> I asked to move it, but you might need to start without me
<seb128> pitti, hum, k, if you can't be there we better reschedule I think?
<seb128> Laney, attente, where is the gs "kind" info coming from?
<Laney> plugins set it once they figure out what kind a component is
<xnox> pitti, i noticed
<seb128> dholbach, do you get the same issue in a guest session?
<dholbach> seb128, I won't be able to try today, to busy because of UOS
<dholbach> s/to/too
<seb128> dholbach, sorry  I've no idea about that issue
<Laney> normally the appstream plugin is responsible for making application objects and setting them to be desktop applications (the ones we normally show)
<dholbach> yeah... I don't know either
<dholbach> gnome-software just shows snaps right now
<seb128> so it all goes down to appstream failing to load on a no such file or directory
<Laney> I think you want to attack this directly and find out why you're getting those messages
<seb128> right, no idea about that though
<seb128> the files are there on disk and permissions are ok
<seb128> appstreamcli find them
<seb128> and strace doesn't show anything weird
<Laney> sure
<Laney> that's why more debugging is required
<seb128> failed to call gs_plugin_refine on appstream: Error opening file: No such file or directory
<willcooke> seb128, worth reinstalling the compat layer just to see what happens?
<Laney> can't do that without being able to reproduce though
<Laney> :(
<seb128> do we know what file exactly it's trying to open?
<Laney> that is the debugging
<Laney> you need to trace gs_plugin_refine_app in src/plugins/gs-plugin-appstream.c and find out where the error comes from
<seb128> dholbach, can you strace -f gnome-software and share the log?
<dholbach> the log is like 30M already and the UI didn't even come up yet
<seb128> dholbach, ctrl-C, gzip?
<seb128> or do it again but ctrl-C after 10s
<GunnarHj> Laney: A friendly reminder of that bug...
<Laney> No need
<dholbach> seb128, http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/log.gz
<seb128> dholbach, danke
<dholbach> de rien
<attente> dholbach: any chance you're on a metered wifi connection?
<dholbach> attente, metered?
<dholbach> I'm on wifi at home
<attente> dholbach: just speculating if the refresh is doing something differently in case you're on 3g
<dholbach> ah ok
<attente> but guess not
<dholbach> no, that shouldn't be the case
<seb128> dholbach, is /var/lib/app-info/yaml/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_xenial_main_dep11_Components-amd64.yml.gz pointing to a valid file?
<seb128> and how big is that file?
<dholbach> ah no
<dholbach> points to /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_xenial_main_dep11_Components-amd64.yml.gz which does not exist
<dholbach> ah... I guess I moved from archive.u.c to de.archive.u.c at some stage
<dholbach> maybe that's why(?)
<seb128> did you try to click on the "refresh" button in g-s?
<seb128> on the top left
<seb128> attente, Laney, when are those /var/lib/app-info/yaml links updated?
<dholbach> where is the refresh button?
<seb128> if you go to the updates tab
<attente> should be during an apt update. refreshing with the button on the updates tab should trigger it though
<seb128> in the top left
<seb128> dholbach, can you copy the log of a sudo apt-get update as well?
<seb128> see if you have warnings/errors there
<seb128> I wonder if you have that bug where an invalid repo is breaking the update
<dholbach> the update is taking ages
<dholbach> in g-s
<dholbach> now it says "it's all up to date"
<dholbach> and the broken symlinks are still there
<seb128> k
<seb128> sudo apt-get update | pastebininit :p
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16239267/
<seb128> iz mvo's fault!
<seb128> dholbach, does it fix it if you disable the spotify repo and do another update?
<dholbach> let me see
<dholbach> the symlinks are now up to date
<seb128> and g-s works I guess?
<dholbach> yes, it took a while to load
<dholbach> but it looks good now
<seb128> k
<seb128> so we figured it out!
<attente> so is appstreamcli refresh not getting called when apt update fails?
<dholbach> dpm, issue found, tldr: apt repos with weaker security break appstreamcli's data update, g-s gets confused over missing data
<dholbach> attente, seb128: I'm sure that MANY users see this issue
<dholbach> Laney, ^
<seb128> yeah, ,likely
<dholbach> can't appstreamcli just take the apt lists which are good and up to date?
<Laney> apt is not calling appstreamcli
<Laney> because it thinks the update failed
<dholbach> mh
<seb128> told yeah, iz mvo bog! :-)
<attente> lol
<seb128> yeah->ya
<seb128> g-s could also give some clue that the index refresh is failing
<attente> yeah
<Laney> saying what?
<seb128> "the package index update failed, check your sources?"
<seb128> with maybe with a detail showing eventual E:
<seb128> "E: The repository 'http://repository.spotify.com stable Release' does not have a Release file."
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> any error would be better than letting you hitting refresh again and again and not telling you it's failing
<attente> i don't understand why g-s wouldn't work when appstreamcli search . was clearly working at the time
<Laney> I imagine there's something that could be done, like
<Laney>  - g-s knows there's no GsApps to display
<Laney>  - try to refresh
<Laney>  - if that fails, display some message
<Laney> It sort of intersects with the first run work
<Laney> Clearly needs design
<Laney> and also clearly is not Ubuntu specific
<seb128> right
<Laney> In this case we should look for a solution that gets the index refreshed
<Laney> attente: appstream-glib accesses the .yaml files itself
<seb128> seems like dholbach had indexed in the apt dir
<attente> should the appstream plugin try to do a refresh itself?
<Laney> .yml.gz, whatevs
<seb128> why are we not using those directly?
<Laney> it doesn't use that same database
<seb128> and relying on symlinks that might be wrong/outdated
<seb128> but the /var/lib/app-info/yaml ones are symlinks, not different db
<seb128> they just pointed to the wrong files in his case
<Laney> I didn't say that they weren't symlnks.
<Laney> I said that appstreamcli search is looking at a different thing to appstream-glib.
<seb128> ah ok
<Laney> Usually they coinciide (so it is a useful test), but not always
<Laney> And I would imagine it's because appstream-glib doesn't want to know about apt's private directories
<Laney> Probably it's valid for other things to put appstream in that place
<xnox> pitti, seb128: i'm double booked too.... shall we move/postpone the upstart user session ?
<pitti> hm, meh
<seb128> xnox, pitti, +1
<pitti> I guess we have to
<seb128> Laney, attente, unsure if apt failing on invalid report is a bug or a feature? it could skip over those and get the update done anyway
<seb128> need to check with mvo when he's around
<attente> maybe it's actually more appropriate for the appstream plugin in gnome-software to actually refresh the cache itself instead of depending on apt to do it
<mhall119> pitti: are you all set for your UOS session?
<pitti> mhall119: sorry, no, double-booked with a Mark session on the sprint here
<mhall119> is there someone else who can run it?
<pitti> I don't actually know much about the session upstart rationale/integration, so if seb128 and xnox want to go along, please do
<pitti> otherwise we need to postpone
<pitti> sorry, sprint craziness
<seb128> pitti, mhall119, xnox is also double booked and I didn't prepare much, better to postpone
<mhall119> pitti: can you do it at 1800 UTC?
<pitti> mhall119: WFM, if seb128 can do that too
<mhall119> seb128: ?
<seb128> mhall119, pitti, no, sorry, I've dinner plans that conflict :-/
<pitti> I guess we'll talk about it next week then
<seb128> but feel free to do it without me
<mhall119> pitti: can we schedule it for ubuntuonair.com next week?
<pitti> this is all desktop-y work, not much point without desktop guys aroud
<pitti> we probably should just do a three-day sprint (virtual or real) for this
<pitti> Laney, seb128, xnox and me perhaps
<seb128> that would work as well
<Laney> let's talk next week
 * Laney isn't sure of the scope yet
<pitti> seb128, Laney: who would actually have some knowledge about how the current system works?
<Laney> which part?
<pitti> i. e. rationale for moving so much stuff to upstart instead of dbus activation, etc.
<pitti> Laney: well, everything :)
<pitti> i .e. how the session starts under upstart, and converting gnome-session to upstart jobs, etc.
<Laney> stgraber drove most of it I think
<pitti> tedg?
<Laney> I know how but can't really speak to why
<Laney> just "make things event driven" probably
<pitti> Laney: ah, so mirroring the phases of g-sessoin?
<tedg> Yes, event driven was important, but also having logging and control.
<tedg> We had for instance every indicator implementing logic for managing restarts for debugging.
<pitti> (previous Mark session is running over, but unsure when our's starts)
<seb128> pitti, tedg yes
<tedg> Where we were able to remove all that code and just use Upstart
<tedg> DBus activation also has some interesting race cases that we never solved. Those are largely fixed by systemd, but I'd not recommend dbus activation without systemd managing the bus.
<Laney> byeeEEee
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<willcooke> gnight all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-06
<cephalex> Hi, I'm trying to use an ancient language in ubuntu but unfortunately it seems the language is not listed in text entry as input language. Do you have any idea about how can I edit a current language and save it as the ancient language that I want ?
<JanC> cephalex: "Text Entry" is about keyboard layouts
<cephalex> yep
<cephalex> and I dont know how to add a new keyboard layout which is not listed
<JanC> right, I was wondering because keyboard layouts aren't (always) linked to languages
<JanC> and they are mostly country-specific and not language specific
<JanC> so I assume you need a keyboard layout for a new script
<cephalex> thats true its Manichean script *, the language or script belongs to an old region and also religion which is not existing anymore ( Might have few followers in China).
<JanC> I know the data used to create keyboard layouts is in /usr/share/X11/xkb/ and you probably want to search for documentation about XKB
<cephalex> I see, thanks in advance. I needed a kind of keyword to search about it
<JanC> alternatively, you could look into creating an ibus input method
<JanC> especially if this language has lots of characters like Chinese has
<JanC> seems like there aren't that many
<cephalex> actually it is not an asian language, its an Indo-European language which was spoken and written in Iran like 1500 years ago, it has only 44 characters
<JanC> maybe the people at SIL can also help you; they have experience with making it possible to use "unknown" languages & scripts (although for non-extinct ones)
<cephalex> where is SIL ? how can I reach them ?
<JanC> sil.org
<JanC> seems like they use Keyman/KMFL for text entry, which seems to be supported by SCIM/iBus input methods
<JanC> cephalex: according to https://github.com/ibus/ibus/wiki there should be a #ibus channel here on Freenode
<cephalex> Thanks in Advance dear JanC
<JanC> they can probably tell you if it makes sense to use that or something else
<JanC> also: http://linux.lsdev.sil.org/wiki/index.php?title=Installing_KMFL_on_Ubuntu
<Laney> moin
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> same to you!
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> good! sunny friday :-)
<seb128> just had coffee outside to start the day
<seb128> how are you?
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> it's CLOUDY!
<seb128> hey willcooke! did you recover from UOS? ;-)
<willcooke> *yawn* not quite
<willcooke> I think I'm going to swap some hours today
<willcooke> be fresh for next week
<seb128> that makes sense
<seb128> btw you were right
<willcooke> I was??  That doesnt sound like me
<seb128> update-notifier logic to open update-manager after a week is buggy
<willcooke> ah
<seb128> it never worked correctly
<seb128> and is not going to open it anymore in xenial
<willcooke> hehe "how did this EVER work?!"
<willcooke> oh, thats bad
<seb128> it worked because we were not autoinstalling security updates
<seb128> and opening the Ui after 1 day for those
<willcooke> ahhhh
<seb128> now we open on normal updates
<seb128> which is 7 days
<seb128> which conflicts with logrotate
<seb128> the code looks at how old are the logs
<willcooke> can we make it 6 days instead>?
<seb128> and they are rotated weekly
<seb128> yes
<seb128> or we could make it ignore the logs age
<seb128> it has a stored value on when update-manager was last open
<seb128> unsure why mvo added the log logique
<willcooke> oki, sounds like we have options then.  Let's see what mvo says and make a call then?
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> btw it's bug #356152
<ubot5> bug 356152 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-manager doesn't show updates, even after 1 week" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356152
<seb128> 6 digits bug!
<willcooke> ha
<seb128> mvo fixed the logrotate case
<willcooke> logged by silbs
<seb128> except he didn't
<seb128> he made it ignore empty logs
<seb128> so e.g dpkg.log is empty when just rotate
<seb128> but dpkg.log.1 ctime is the rotation time
<seb128> which means the fix wasn't enough
<seb128> but I guess we never really hit the issue because we had frequent security updates and opening daily for those
<seb128> so yeah, waiting for mvo
<seb128> we could just consider the previous u-m use, or we could look at log but their mtime and not their ctime
<seb128> that would fix it, the rotated log wouldn't have the rotation timestamp but the last edit one
<willcooke> sounds full of edge cases to me :)
<willcooke> but storing a value somewhere also sucks
<willcooke> coin toss
<seb128> well, we have the value atm
<seb128> in gsettings
<willcooke> ah, kk
<seb128> $ gsettings get com.ubuntu.update-manager launch-time
<willcooke> so if that value doesnt exist or is > 6 days old then run
<willcooke> ?
<seb128> the code just do "if MAX(launch-time, log-date) > current-1week; then start"
<seb128> or rather <
<seb128> e.g it looks at the most recent event between logs date and previous start and check if that's more than a week old
<seb128> which is never because of the logrotate
<seb128> I'm going to read the bug I pointed again
<willcooke> got it, and that would handle a fresh install where nothing had ever been run?
<seb128> it has quite some text to read
<willcooke> yeah, and it goes off in to the weeds with people absuing each other
<seb128> I don't fully understand the log logic
<seb128> I think it's to not start it if you manually used apt
<seb128> which makes sense
<willcooke> hummmmmmmmm - I /think/ I disagree
<willcooke> like:
<seb128> you don't want to annoy synaptic/command line users prompting them with a graphical tool
<willcooke> I always use apt to install things, but I usually rely on update notifier
<seb128> it's tricky
<seb128> you could also dist-upgrade manually every 3 days
<seb128> and be annoyed by u-m prompting you
<willcooke> but it would only prompt if there were actual updates right?  So in the case of a frequent updater there might not be updates to install?
<willcooke> and so they wouldnt get prompted?
<seb128> though I guess if you are that kind of users you could change the config or the update-notifier "days before notifying"
<willcooke> true
<seb128> it would prompt for updates yes
<seb128> but not with the 7 days delay
<willcooke> oki, well - anyway, sorry to drag this down to nitty details, we can work it out once we know the logic mvo was implementing
<seb128> like you log in, apt index refresh, and you would directly get it opening because you didn't use the UI for more than 7 days
<seb128> but yeah, the bug has some arguments around those lines
<seb128> "if you install/remove a software it resets the updater delay"
<seb128> I think the current behaviour is too smart and that makes it confusing
<seb128> we better open it weekly if there is an update
<seb128> and if you don't like it just change the config to be like annual or never
<willcooke> +1
<seb128> k, let's check with mvo when he's around and then go for that if he has no objection
<seb128> thanks for pointing the issue out!
<willcooke> perfect, thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<willcooke> now, seb128, how do you feel about looking at a u-s-d patch?
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> willcooke, is that the touchpad timeout hack from the oem team?
<willcooke> seb128, exactly
<seb128> I replied  the other day saying that their patch looks like an hack and I don't like it/would prefer if they opened an upstream bug/discussed upstream what a proper solution would be
<willcooke> does look a bit hacky doesnt it
<seb128> but that I wouldn't stop them from landing it if they wanted
<seb128> like I can see how the hack is desirable/fix the problem now
<willcooke> if (!strcmp(priv->main_touchscreen_name, g_strdup (device_info[i].name)))
<willcooke> makes me sad
<seb128> but I would prefer if they were engaged into finding a proper solution as well, which might let us replace the hack later on
<seb128> for the record it's https://code.launchpad.net/~hui.wang/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon-master-touchscreen-fix/+merge/293704
<willcooke> looking at the diff
<willcooke> there's a darn goto in there
<seb128> I think they tried to ping Laney next after I said I was not really wanting to put my name next to the ack on it
<seb128> lol, indeed
<seb128> +        if (rtime++ < RETRY_TIMES) {
<seb128> +                sleep(1); /* sleep 1 second */
<seb128> + goto retry;
<seb128> quality code!
<Laney> as if I'm more likely to approve a hack than you :P
<seb128> Laney, :-)
<willcooke> urgh
<seb128> Laney, note that I didn't redirect them to you, just saw that you got pinged next
<willcooke> so it's just going to sit there going round and round until the TS comes back.  And if it doesnt it will loop forever?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> no
<Laney> + if (!strcmp(priv->main_touchscreen_name, g_strdup (device_info[i].name))) {
<seb128> it tries twice
<Laney> wwwwwwwwwwwhy
<seb128> not for ever
<willcooke> seb128, oh yeah
<Laney> it'll stop after RETRY_TIMES
<willcooke> sleep(1) lol
<seb128> "If we let the system call do_touchscreen_mapping() before the reconnectting, the u-s-d will crash."
<seb128> says the comment
<seb128> which makes me think "right, there is a segfault, let's fix it"
<seb128> not "let's have a good sleep and not fix the segfault"
<seb128> anyway I don't want to rant, cf what I said earlier, I would prefer them to engage in finding a proper fix
<Laney> you should comment on there saying that IMHO
<seb128> yeah, doing that now
<Laney> new wireless AP just arrived :-D
<Laney> maybe i'll be able to work from the garden now
<willcooke> Laney, which one did you get?  Can it run openwrt?!
<Laney> I got a ubiquiti thing
<Sweet5hark1> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=72e6a1365cb08986b542a5beb797634bca62d85b
<Sweet5hark1> ^^ epic way to close a rant in a commit message with "I hate this crap"
<Laney> what even is nagios
<Laney> Sweet5hark: looks like someone's having fun
<Sweet5hark> Laney: ya
<andyrock> hey all
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: just copied 5.1.3~rc2 for xenial to the ppas ...
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ^^ if there is no "arrgh, LIbreOffice killed my kitten" feedback from the PPA, thats the one to SRU when upstream releases final in ~one week.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, alright, I should be able get to it at the weekend
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, please get this pushed to yakkety archive too
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: no sweat with this, upstream hasnt released yet.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, just saying get these 5.1.x update into yakkety too ;)
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: not gonna happen -- as usual yakkety will release with 5.2.x -- we wont be wasting ressources on 5.1/yakkety without very very good reasons.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, k, let's see next week if it's ready then ;-)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, I see, I better not answer on that opinion (while an appropriate 5.2 release is like 2 months away)
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<willcooke> hair_length--;
<seb128> worked this time? ;-)
<willcooke> finally!
<seb128> happyaron, hey, could you have a look to backporting the patch for bug #1574347?
<ubot5> bug 1574347 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "WiFi network list disappears from network manager applet" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574347
<attente> Laney, seb128: i got an email saying that further phasing of gnome-software has been stopped because of possible regressions. does that mean that the package hasn't yet been released to all users?
<seb128> attente, correct
<seb128> that has link to errors.ubuntu.com issues?
<seb128> in which case check those and if they are not regression mention it to bdmurray (I saw that you did that yesterday, is there other ones now?)
<attente> there seems to be an increase in the rate for this particular error
<attente> (according to the email at least. i can't actually tell through e.u.c)
<attente> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/dc83afe90b31d0984940db9de2ff06b2c6ee8b78
<attente> this one seems to have spiked though: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/71f9f7b2ce32e9d389723076873adffc52b7e0e2
<seb128> that one doesn't have a working retracing :-/
<seb128> those metrics are often not reliable
<seb128> if none of the issues seem like new ones/due to the SRU changes just tell bdmurray to flag is as good
<seb128> I don't think they are regression
<seb128> the first one looks similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1551834
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1551834 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "GNOME Software crashed notifying bad install, app installed fine" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> I doubt it's a regression
<seb128> that log journal has
<seb128> "mar 01 17:20:30 hostname org.gnome.Software[1010]: (gnome-software:3576): Gs-WARNING **: failed to install filezilla.desktop: Timeout was reached"
<seb128> so maybe an issue when a timeout is hit
<attente> yeah... i can't figure out why it's happening. it looks like it's trying to upgrade a NULL app, but i can't imagine how that's possible
<attente> app=0x2000000000 is really disconcerting
<attente> so is plugin=0x0...
<seb128> could be memory corruption...
<seb128> anyway I don't think those are regressions, we shouldn't block the SRU
<seb128> attente, ^
<seb128> attente, speaking about SRU, since that one moved to updates do we have a next one lined up?
<attente> seb128: i'm not sure it's not a regression... it appeared first back in february, then disappeared until the sru which brought it back
<seb128> or a least of issues for the next one
<seb128> attente, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/77807d3502a3e74469d5b5dca0a34e9197c647d6 seems similar?
<attente> i'm a bit hesitant to do another sru... we rebased on top of gnome-software 3.20.2, but the delta between 3.20.1 and 3.20.2 is large and there aren't too many changes we made to it yet
<attente> (since that sru i mean)
<attente> yeah, does look similar
<seb128> and that was in the release version
<seb128> attente, 3.20.2 ... we are going to want to SRU that though no?
<attente> seb128: i'm not sure... it is a big delta
<seb128> just means it needs more testing
<seb128> but we need to move forward on g-s in the LTS, stalling is not going to work since there are still stability issues and missing features
<seb128> and it's not a key component to the system, if we screw it up systems still boot and can still install updates through update-manager
<seb128> though not screwing up would be better :-)
<Laney> yes we should update to the new upstream
<Laney> we would normally do that
<Laney> the fact that we are using snapshot doesn't make a difference to that policy
<seb128> the question is whether we want that to be the next SRU?
<Laney> rather than what?
<seb128> or do we want another round of selected changes
<seb128> like important ones that would be safer to get through in a week
<seb128> where we think the update might need to sit in proposed longer and need some regression-fix-iterations
<Laney> attente: is the app getting disposed or something?
<attente> Laney: i don't think so. the memory in that TransactionData struct seems to be getting wiped away, but i can't imagine how since it's on the stack
<Laney> why do you think that?
<seb128> ximion, hey, I just read that bug with "no application data found" ... dholbach had a similar issue yesterday, apt-get update was failing on a repo not having a Release file which made the /var/lib/app-info/yaml/ symlinks to not be created
<seb128> ximion, just mentioning it in case the bug you try to debug is a similar one
<seb128> Laney, attente, did we end up having a bug filed about that btw? still unsure on what component the report should be, apt? g-s?
<ximion> seb128: if a repo is added, the symlinks should not be touched...
<ximion> for that particular bug, it looks like there might be conflicting metadata somewhere
<seb128> ximion, well, the repo was not added, it was probably there before upgrading to xenial
<seb128> also dholbach changed mirror
<seb128> he had symlinks for the wrong mirror
<seb128> they never picked the new source due to the E:
<seb128> like /var/lib/app-info/yaml/ had symlinks to archive.de
<seb128> but he was on the archive.us now
<seb128> so the symlinks were broken
<seb128> and apt-get update wouldn't update them
<ximion> yep, that's an issue - I discussed that with Laney yesterday
<seb128> k
<seb128> do you know if there is a bug open about  it?
<ximion> ideally, the broken repos get fixed, because APT doesn't tell us enough information to reliably update the data
<seb128> if not I'm going to ask dholbach to file it ... on which component should it be open?
<attente> this is new too... https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/111ba23deb7463e9f1203f30099e0c2ca6c2af80?
<ximion> seb128: since the original cause is in APT, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1562733 would be the thing
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1562733 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt signature requierements prevent updates from some repositories" [High,In progress]
<ximion> the other package involved, appstream itself, could only work around this
<seb128> attente, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1281949 suggests it's not
<ubot5> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1281949 in gnome-software "[abrt] gnome-software: gs_plugin_loader_set_network_status(): gnome-software killed by SIGSEGV" [Unspecified,Assigned]
<seb128> ximion, thanks
<flexiondotorg> Is it expected that GTK 3.20 will be added to Yakkety?
<flexiondotorg> Just trying to figure out what may or may not be need for MATE in Debian and Ubuntu.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1576576
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1576576 in Mozilla Firefox "Update to 3.20 needs work and coordination" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> flexiondotorg, summary "would be nice, but it requires theme updates/rewrite for unity/xfce/..., so depends if we find resources to get that done"
<seb128> I wouldn't count on it atm
<seb128> but wouldn't rule it out either
<Laney> I tried 3.20 the other day
<Laney> nautilus stopped drawing the background for some reason
<Laney> and everything else was broken
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> will poke at it next week a bit
<seb128> Laney, the nautilus bg issue is likely https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=7f0e1b0c6869eb826e6c20d31c81bd917779db8f
<Laney> k
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 Migrating to GTK 3.20 is not trivial.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, right, that's what the bug I pointed out is about
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Yep.
<flexiondotorg> So Debian has GTK 3.20 and MATE has GTK 3.20 compatible themes. Which took the team several months to migrate to GTK 3.20.
<Laney> They should apply this expertise to light-themes
<seb128> do you have anyone who worked on that and would be interested in helping other flavors?
<flexiondotorg> Can I drop the MATE 3.18 themes into Yakkety in such a away the Debian sync won't overwrite them?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, The MATE team has 2 talented themers. One is a Fedora contributor, so has little interest in work on Debian/Ubuntu.
<flexiondotorg> But he did help willcooke out a few weeks ago.
<flexiondotorg> The MATE 3.20 themes are now quite widely used by various Fedora spins because they offer complete GTK 3.20 compatibility.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 I'll see what can be done regarding light-themes.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks
<seb128> that would be very useful
<flexiondotorg> The Ubuntu MATE themes are (pretty much) identical to Ambiance and Radiance.
<seb128> so we can probably take inspiration of what has been done there
<Laney> are they different from the mate-themes?
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to see if I can get Ambiant-MATE and Radiant-MATE update for 3.20. If so, merging those changes to light-themes should be trivial.
<seb128> great
<seb128> brb, restarting to test n-m update
<flexiondotorg> Yes, mate-themes are the themes for MATE and are distro agnostic.
<flexiondotorg> We maintain several versions for GTK 3.14, 3.16, 3.18 and 3.20. Because distros move at different paces.
<willcooke> pitti, I'm noticing that my NFS mounts are not mounting at boot in 16.04.  Do you think this might be a systemd issue, and if so, any pointers as to where I can start looking to find out what's going on?
<Laney> turnout:  21.4% (+5.0)
<willcooke> also sudo mount -a doesn't work, but sudo mount ~/Videos (for eg.) does work
<willcooke> Laney, oof.  Still twice what we had here (but that was PCC only)
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, buon pomeriggio! is there any unity SRU planned? seems like there is a good batch of fixes from andyrock which got a +1 and would be nice to land those
<andyrock> seb128: Trevinho is in charge of that
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I want to prepare one ASAP... I wanted to land the terminal fix as well
<Trevinho> I've been doing some tests, as the one I have would be quick and fast, but the proper one would need an API break in compiz, so still trying to avoid it
<seb128> Trevinho, k, there might be enough to do one without that if it's tricky/going to take longer ... but your call
<seb128> Trevinho, what about the bamf/menus  issue?
<willcooke> Trevinho, is the missing menus issue any closer to being solved?  I think we should hold on until that's fixed
<seb128> Trevinho, did you get a fix? or just a workaround?
<Trevinho> seb128: well, that's actually done right now... But I've just to figure out if the one line change is fine or...
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> willcooke: it seems that the bamf fix is enough for many reporters
<Trevinho> willcooke: so, I'll land that anyway... Then we can see if we get more reports
<Trevinho> as the racey nature of the bug, causes that even debugging data could cause false-negatives in tests
<willcooke> thx
<ximion> Laney: if you are bored, could you maybe take a look at why org.kde.kate.desktop is missing from the dep11-generator output?
<ximion> see https://github.com/ximion/appstream/issues/39
<Laney> I don't have an easy way to do that atm
<ximion> at the curent point in time, I also wonder whether it would be possible to change the existing AppStream metadata files in Xenial, rather than xenial-updates post-release. That would be pretty useful for switching to the appstream-generator too
<Laney> and no I'm not bored
<Laney> and no it is not
<Laney> we absolutely cannot re-publish a released suite
<ximion> not even exchanging some files on the server?
<Laney> no
<Laney> that changes the hashes which is a republish
<ximion> well, then this might become a bigger issue than I thought
<ximion> or maybe not... - since appstream-generator publishes its media files in a directory layout without main/contrib/non-free, keeping the old files might work easily
<ximion> so the old data can be kept in xenial without breaking things, while still switching to the new generator
<Laney> yes we'll need a way to import and freeze so things referenced in a frozen suite can never be deleted
<ximion> or - even easier - one could define a new media directory :P
<Laney> that's what we talked about the other day
<ximion> protecting package-ids could work... but every bit in asgen would need to check for the list-of-locked-stuff before attempting to delete things
<Laney> do you have a database layer to do it at?
<Laney> I'll resurrect my local mirror next week hopefully and run kate on that to see what happened there
<seb128> k, calling it a week
<seb128> have a nice w.e everyone!
<Laney> bye seb128!
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 It will take some weeks but we gonna have a go at 3.20 support.
<Laney> nice!
<Laney> pitti: any idea if I can make a conditional (ConditionPathExists=/dev/disk/by-uuid/...) .mount unit mount the thing when the path starts to exist?
<Laney> it's for hot-plugging a USB drive and getting it mounted in the right place under /srv
<Laney> huh actually this doesn't work even at boot time
<Laney> maybe BindsTo= and After= the ....device
<Laney> BindsTo is too strong
<ximion> Laney: I think adding a final-publish command to asgen which exports all media associated with a specific suite into one directory makes the most sense
<ximion> together with marking the frozen suite as untouchable, so the HTML pages and hints don't get updated anymore
<Laney> ximion: don't understand
<ximion> Laney: before the suite is frozen, you run final-publish on it, copying all media to a new directory dedicated to that suite, and rewriting the MediaBaseUrl to point to that new directory
<ximion> then, the generator won't have access to that dir anymore
<Laney> what is 'before'?
<Laney> that sounds weird
<Laney> you have to have someone sitting around babysitting the generator
<Laney> at release time
<Laney> then publish the suite one more time for that
<ximion> jap
<Laney> I don't like it
<Laney> plus you waste space unless it's made up of hardlinks
<ximion> another option would be to split the media directory, but we get huge problems then with deleting old data
<ximion> yes, hardlinks would be the thing
<ximion> btw, as long as the packages don't get deleted from Xenial, asgen won't touch the xenial suite
<ximion> so you already have that guarantee
<ximion> if you don't trust the generator on that, I think there is no other way than to move files out of the generator's control
<Laney> I trust the generator, but I don't trust myself to not accidentally damage it
<Laney> AND the other thing you could gain, as we said the other day, is the ability to reprocess the same thing in another suite
<Laney> dep11-generator forget org.kde.kate.desktop -> do the right thing if xenial is frozen
<ximion> while I agree that this would be nice, implementing it would be painful - at time, we have a mapping of package -> multiple components, when adding a suite, we would need to reprocess every package again as soon as the suite changes, which is wasteful, or would need to add some additional complexity by adding an optional suite parameter
 * Laney shrugs
<ximion> if you accidentially delete a package, it shoould simply return with the new processing step
<ximion> s/step/run/
<Laney> if you want to do no work then just ignore the problem and tell people to avoid touching the frozen suite ever
<ximion> exception is screenshots, which might become unavailable
<ximion> yeah, that's what I do at time ;-)
<ximion> (and what I plan to do for Debian)
<Laney> annoying isn't it
<Laney> what happens if you enable fonts?
<ximion> unless, of course, there is some solution which solves this issue
<Laney> then you skew the frozen version
<ximion> then fonts will show up in all suites which have packages providing them
<ximion> even Xenial, but that won't matter, since the xenial suite is frozen on the server
<ximion> so, while the appstream server knows more things then, the xenial users won't see them
<ximion> not ideal, I agree
<ximion> dropping xenial from the config would mean that all packages and components vanish from the database and media cache
<ximion> database isn't an issue, media-cache is, that's why I suggested exporting it
<ximion> in theory, we could even do that transparently for every suite until is is marked frozen...
<ximion> hmm, that could actually work quite well, at the expense of some inode and creating quite some amount of hardlinks
<ximion> I'll think about this more
<ximion> Laney: making the generator maintain multiple media pools which derive from one "base-pool" might actually be an easy way out
<ximion> that way, as soon as a suite is marked as untouchable, its current state is frozen
<Laney> sounds heavy on inodes
<Laney> but other than that it probably is okay
<ximion> means someone needs to do this post-release, but that's something I consider doable
<Laney> you could skip loading Packages files for those suites entirely then
<Laney> which probably saves some time
<ximion> Laney: did you know that dak internally mirrors the whole Debian archive using hardlinks? ^^
<ximion> jup
<ximion> it saves time, *and* it makes the DB smaller, as we can drop those packages from the db
<ximion> means resurecting an untouchable suite is not a great idea, but that won't happen anyway ^^
<Laney> probably call it released rather than frozen
<Laney> frozen already means something else
<Laney> or immutable or something
<ximion> untouchable is the term used by dak
<ximion> released is imho not descriptive enough, and frozen is taken by pre-release freeze etc.
<Laney> whatever is not "frozen" is ok by me
<Laney> and in the end I don't care about the implementation if it gives me my two use cases
 * ximion agrees "frozen" is bad
<Laney> 1) protection from myself
<Laney> 2) ability to reprocess the same package in newer suites
<Laney> s/newer/touchable/
<Laney> which I think this would do
<Laney> like at the most extreme you could fully reprocess sid at any time without fearing the data for stretch (once that is released)
<ximion> 1) definitely, 2) too (but less-nice ^^)
<ximion> jup, this would be possible :)
<Laney> it would be nice right now to be able to test if kate (etc) is fixed
<Laney> without having to upload it
<Laney> this also becomes easier if I get around to doing a mirrorless generator
<ximion> I will likely make this an optional feature, if possible, since e.g. Archlinux won't want this
<ximion> Laney: kate is at least fixed in Debian.... :P
<ximion> as for download-on-demand: that could be implemented easily in asgen, since there is no direct reference of filenames anywhere, except for display-purposes
<Laney> at the expense of leaving your machine on overnight the first time
<Laney> man this is weird, my internet is flaking out
<Laney> I blame the new n-m
<Laney> optional> they just wouldn't use the config flag ever
<Laney> overnight> unless it's possible to download the cache and stuff from appstream.distro and just plug that into a local instance
 * Laney bets they are not relocatable though
<Laney> right, goodnight ximion et al
<ximion> gn8! :)
<willcooke> night all
<pitti> Laney: such a condition will not automatically start it, just prevent starting it if the condition is false; you need to bind the .mount to the corresponding .device
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-07
<pkhaxorz> hello?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-08
<Fudge> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-01
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> How goes?
<robert_ancell> willcooke, good, what tz are you in?
<willcooke> -5
<willcooke> Soooooooo tired
<robert_ancell> :)
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-02
<Laney> hallo
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> good bank hol?
<davmor2> Laney: well I feel a lot happier after Friday so I did crazy things like slept
<oSoMoN> morning all
<Laney> hey oSoMoN
<Laney> you good?
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<oSoMoN> yep, I had a great w-e
<oSoMoN> you?
<Laney> pretty nice
<Laney> didn't actually do that much, but that was good
<oSoMoN> not doing much can be very rewarding (and relaxing)
<Laney> read my book, went out for cofeee, went to the allotment and did some weeding / watering, climbing, made pizza
 * Laney hygge
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey oSoMoN, how are you?
<oSoMoN> pretty good, how are you yourself?
<seb128> tired but good :-)
<oSoMoN> need a day off to recover from the week-end? ;)
<prinzpiuz[m]> Anybody using KDE connect in Ubuntu?
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> good weekend? :-)
<duflu> Morning Europe
<duflu> And good night (nothing personal)
<seb128> Laney, hectic one, end result is good though ;-)
<Laney> one day there will be a day that I get all the gstreamer source and binary package names straight
<Laney> and on that day I will retire
<mdeslaur> easy, there's gst-plugins-good1.0, gst-plugins-crapfest1.0, gst-plugins-ftbfs1.0, gst-plugins-dancer1.0, gst-plugins--prancer1.0 and gst-plugins-blitzen1.0
<mdeslaur> I may be missing a couple
<kenvandine> seb128, i spent some time unwinding my old patches that added depends for libunity, libido and uoa
<kenvandine> seb128, the empathy one is a big change, can you take a look and tell me what you think?
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/empathy/no_unity_no_uoa/+merge/323384
<kenvandine> seb128, it brings us back to a much simpler package
<kenvandine> seb128, oh... and hope you had a nice long weekend :)
<Laney> kenvandine: I'll look, think seb128 is out
<kenvandine> Laney, cool, thanks
 * Laney reboots into AA
<Laney> in theory
<Laney> and in practice too
<Laney> yeehaw
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> Laney, living on the edge!
<cyphermox> for bugmail for packages, do you use ~desktop-bugs or ~desktop-packages?
<cyphermox> (I'm looking at GNOME MIRs.
<Laney> bugs I think
<cyphermox> I think I found my answer, and I got "desktop-packages"
<cyphermox> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html#desktop-packages
<kenvandine> i thought it was bugs too
<cyphermox> but thanks :)
<cyphermox> probably both, really, for some reason
<kenvandine> but it's been a while for me ;)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snowball desktop-bugs
<cyphermox> kenvandine: are you back in desktop team?
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus desktop-bugs
<kenvandine> cyphermox, yup
<kenvandine> back home :)
<cyphermox> cool :)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice both!
<kenvandine> lol
<cyphermox> yeah, wtf.
<cyphermox> a little redundant redundant.
<cyphermox> Laney, could you please subscribe the right team to mutter then?
<cyphermox> or tell me if it's ok, and I can do the subscribing for the gnome packages for Shell.
<Laney> I have always subscribed desktop-bugs but maybe that's wrong
<Laney> but you go for it for shell stuff
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I would probably subscribe both, it makes it easier to merge it all in one later
<Laney> I don't have admin for the other one
<kenvandine> Laney, as far as i remember it was desktop-bugs
<Laney> meh if you want
<cyphermox> in theory bdmurray uses the desktop-packages list for something
<Laney> it'd be trivial to script
<Laney> whatever ends up happening
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> for now I'll just do the MIR reviews, and I'll bring it up to your meeting after talking to bdmurray
<cyphermox> I'm a little surprised he's not idling here.
<Laney> man
<Laney> testing gstreamer updates is the best
<Laney> I hardly ever crack out the old mp3 collection these days
 * Laney has Dookie on
<Sweetshark> Laney, mdeslaur: suggested additional gstreamer packages: gstreamer-legal-boobytrap1.0, gstreamer-rce1.0 ...
<mdeslaur> Sweetshark: ah yes, rce, my favourite :)
<kenvandine> Laney, sorry i'm missing the pre-meeting... still suffering from the lack of camera issue
<kenvandine> next week i'll make sure my laptop is accessible or i'll buy a usb camera...  which i've been meaning to do for ages
<Laney> kenvandine: np, I almost missed it too
<Laney> I had it set up to text me but didn't get one
<Laney> oh
<Laney> guess I'll run the meeting ;-)
<Laney> 2 minutes
<Laney> #startmeeting Desktop Team 2017-05-02
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  2 15:33:43 2017 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic:
<jbicha> o/
<Laney> jbicha: you want to be in the list?
<jbicha> yes
<Laney> ok
<Laney> andyrock, dgadomski, kenvandine, jbicha, Laney, oSoMoN, seb128 (out?), tkamppeter, robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> âº/
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> quiet?
<Laney> let's see
<Laney> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: andyrock
<Laney> ok
<Laney> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> nothing to share today, was involved with non-desktop issues and sprint preparation (on a team sprint next week)
<dgadomski> eof
<Laney> ok, thanks, have a nice sprint!
<Laney> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * I started working on dropping patches from packages that added dependencies for libunity, libsignon, libaccounts and libido.  The most significant change was the empathy package, I greatly simplified the packaging now that we no longer need to split out GOA and UOA backends.  Basically unwinding the work I did back before I left the desktop team.
<kenvandine> * Spent a little time trying to figure out the lack of window border bug in gnome-shell with our theme, but didn't make any progress.
<kenvandine> EOF
 * Trevinho officially off, but I'll be with you.... ALTHOUGH LANEY DIDN'T MENTION ME!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> kenvandine: the mate-themes are quite good to compare to / borrow from
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i'll have another look
<Laney> so if they don't have the problem
<Laney> you will find the solutin in there :-)
<kenvandine> i was mostly curious and got distracted with patches
<kenvandine> but i'll play some more
<Laney> k
 * andyrock is back
<Laney> i'll look at empathy in ab it
<kenvandine> Laney, let me know what you think about my empathy changes
<kenvandine> and i'll upload it to AA
<Laney> merci
<Trevinho> kenvandine: as for the border thing I might have something too
<Laney> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: andyrock
<Laney> hi!
<kenvandine> Trevinho, i'd love to hear about it after the meeting
<andyrock> hey!
<andyrock> so I'm still working on cr
<andyrock> the patch to support mir should be ready soon
<andyrock> EOD
<Laney> andyrock: thanks
<Laney> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> Nautilus 3.24.1 in artful. Fixed a regression in .desktop launchers with help from md_eslaur
<jbicha> Shotwell 3.24.1 in artful-proposed, autopkgtest caught an issue with Debian's ios8 patch. Not sure which is more important: the ios8 issue or the regression caught by the test
<jbicha> More work on Zesty GNOME 3.24 SRUs
<jbicha> Fixed gdm LP: #1686257, SRUs in progress
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1686257 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Zesty) "gdm3 fails to start when default session-name=ubuntu" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686257
<jbicha> Worked with Ken to upload gnome-shell and -online-accounts without some universe deps for easier main inclusion.
<jbicha> Switched Shell from Cantarell to Ubuntu font.
<jbicha> Helped Gunnar with a proposal for how ubuntu-docs can integrate with gnome-user-docs
<jbicha> gtk4 is now in artful universe
<jbicha> EOF
<Laney> nice
<Laney> did you discuss gtk4 with debian-gnome?
<Laney> or is it obvious (package names)?
<jbicha> not yet, the DPL rejected my graphene pkg (required build-dependency)!
<jbicha> so I'll need to update debian/copyright to make ftpmaster happy
<Laney> heh
<jbicha> it's mostly obvious but there are a couple file conflict questions upstream
<Laney> I know about the schemas and gettext stuff
<Laney> fortunately they didn't conflict yet afaik so we can share the gtk3 ones
<jbicha> right
<Laney> nod
<Laney> ok, well, happy to review it at Debian like other stuff
<jbicha> ok
<Laney> did you see that ubuntu-gnome is failing to build?
<jbicha> no, but my guess is that's because of the gnome-user-docs conflict stuff
<Laney> yep
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/317989928/buildlog_ubuntu_artful_amd64_ubuntu-gnome_BUILDING.txt.gz
<jbicha> thanks, I'll follow up with Gunnar about that
<Laney> cool
<Laney> moving on
<Laney> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> I either didn't do very much work or forgot to write down what I was doing
<Laney> â¢ short week (may day)
<Laney> â¢ gst 1.11.91 update & patch discussion
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest
<Laney> â set up email on some instances, debug & fix problems that were being reported by cron into the black hole
<Laney> â help with some systemd/meson debugging
<Laney> â set up bot user for github requests
<Laney> â¢ finish gnome-software rebase
<Laney> â¢ some discussions on -devel about backports
<Laney> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: oSoMoN
<Laney> ð
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> * built chromium-browser 59.0.3071.29 in chromium-next PPA with GTK3 and without GConf
<oSoMoN>   the GTK3 build is affected by https://crbug.com/716135, marked upstream as release blocker
<oSoMoN>   tested native desktop notifications, works well under GNOME shell but not unity7, so can't be turned on by default
<oSoMoN> * building chromium-browser 60.0.3080.5 in chromium-dev PPA
<oSoMoN> * looking into existing setup for handling Cr translations, particularly desktop file ones
<oSoMoN> * working my way through Cr bugs in LP
<oSoMoN> * getting familiar with the libreoffice build system, playing with the snap made by Bjoern (built a classic snap for starters)
<oSoMoN> EOF
<Laney> oSoMoN: thanks, let us know if you need any help
<Laney> guessing seb128 is out, so
<oSoMoN> will certainly do
<Laney> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: tkamppeter
<Laney> tkamppeter: you here or want me to paste?
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd (IPP-over-USB printing): Completed the bug fixing and stabilization work to get to a stable, feature-complete state fulfilling the standards. Released version 1.30, Debian packager packaged it already, will sync soon.
<tkamppeter> - Avahi: Made a simple patch so that services on localhost are advertised, needed for IPP-over-USB printing with ippusbxd. Discussed further Avahi changes needed with Trent Lloyd, Avahi upstream.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.13.5: Mainly bug fixes and sync of the PPD generator with CUPS GIT.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Planning of the tasks for the 6 print dialog students. Discussed on the LibreOffice developer mailing list about the changes on the LibreOffioce print dialog.
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting Summit 2017: Prepared slides for my cups-filters presentation. Summit will start today right after our Desktop Team Meeting.
<tkamppeter> - GNOME: Switched to this as my standard desktop and did a short review of the printer tool.
<tkamppeter> Bugs.
<Laney> tkamppeter: thanks, happy summit
<tkamppeter> The mail wa sonly for the case if my turn had happened later.
<Laney> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· libwnck reviews and new upstream maintenance work to modernize stuff
<Laney> almost forgot you again Trevinho ;-)
<Trevinho> Â· Started discussing about fraction scaling in gnome-shell with upstream and how I can get involved
<Trevinho> Â· Compiz reviews
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed an unity bug causing menus not working properly in multi-monitor environments
<Trevinho> Â· Unity(7?) stack new landing
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed a couple of snapcraft-preload bugs (and added support to getpw)
<Trevinho> EOF
<Trevinho> Laney: I was in fact checking if you were now remembering..
<Laney> :D
<Trevinho> Asia is still part of this world! :-D
<Laney> did gnome-shell upstream give you some pointers on the hidpi work?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah i got a pretty explainatory email...
<Trevinho> Laney: I might sare if interested
<Laney> nice
<Laney> do a blog post about it ;-)
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team 2017-05-02 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
 * Trevinho is not into blogs anymore
<Laney> yeah people do these 1/30 tweet threads
 * kenvandine doesn't have the attention span to blog these days... 140 characters FTW
<kenvandine> :-D
<Laney> going once...
<Laney> twice
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  2 15:55:13 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-05-02-15.33.moin.txt
<Trevinho> (Ehm... my artful thinks to be a pangolin, though... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24499183/)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> that's weird
<kenvandine> Trevinho, so you have a theory about the border bug?
<kenvandine> or pointer?
<jbicha> Trevinho: yes, that shows up for everyone :|
<Trevinho> kenvandine: well we did some work to avoid that border to show up in unity, but that shouldn't affect the shell.. It's all about the theme window border property... I had something but I need to check it further
<Trevinho> I can do it tomorrow
<kenvandine> Trevinho, cool, please do
<jbicha> Laney: when's a good time to discuss updating gnome-terminal to 3.24?
<kenvandine> i'll hold off messing with it until i hear from you
<Laney> jbicha: it's mainly the PCRE2 stuff, right?
<jbicha> I think the easiest thing to do is to just revert the PCRE2 stuff for now like I proposed in LP: #1666264
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1666264 in vte2.91 (Ubuntu) "FFe: Update gnome-terminal to 3.24 and vte to 0.48" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666264
<Laney> I remember
<jbicha> we might be able to push PCRE2 in main off until after 18.04 LTS
<Laney> how do we get out of that hole?
<Laney> or is it a hope that everyone else ports their stuff kind of thing?
<jbicha> I talked to cypher_mox yesterday and he's not fully opposed to there being 2 PCREs in main, but he'd like to see a transition tracker, bugs filed, etc.
<Laney> alright, that seems tractable
<Laney> if that's enough to get it allowed in then I like that
<jbicha> I think they want the Desktop Team to make a decision about how badly we need PCRE2
<Laney> um
<Laney> a bit?
<jbicha> how opposed are you to me uploading 3.24 now with the pcre2 reverts?
<Laney> if in the future we get stuck because of it, then very
<Laney> if because of it nobody pushes the above tracker/bugs/... then a bit
<Laney> if it never requires any more work then also a bit
<jbicha> lol, lots of "a bit" answers here :)
<Laney> well yeah I don't think it's the end of the world :P
<jbicha> ok, so we're stuck on 3.20 now
<Laney> I mean if you want to do it then go ahead and do it
<Laney> I'll just be grumpy if we end up being stuck
<Laney> but it won't be like I'll be able to do anything about it :0
<Laney> :)*
<jbicha> we're stuck now and eventually maintaining the revert patches will be too much so we'll be stuck again
<jbicha> hopefully, some other stuff will be able to use pcre2 then so it's more obvious that we should have pcre2 in main
<Laney> that's why I'm slightly worried that uploading means nobody pushes PCRE2 any more
<Laney> but it looks like the rest of the world isn't really moving over yet either
<jbicha> I did see that glib still uses pcre3â¦
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> there's probably an argument that being stuck on 3.24 is no worse than being stuck on 3.20 btw
<jbicha> ok,I opened a glib bug upstream, I'll try to get it tracked on the Ubuntu transition tracker if I can figure out the ben syntax
<Laney> seen https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=755693 ?
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 755693 in gregex "future of GRegex" [Normal,New]
<Laney> kenvandine: empathy looks mostly good (but unbuilt/untested): I think that debian/shlibs.local might need bumping, and you might want to add Provides for the dropped packages to ease upgrades
<kenvandine> Laney, sure, thanks
<Laney> jbicha: think you forgot the pcre3 packages on is_affected
<jbicha> thanks
<Laney> np
<Laney> night!
<Blu2> Is 4.4.0-75-generic also causing problems to somebody else?
<Blu2> I got a login loop and wrong resolution with Nvidia drivers on 16.04.2
<Blu2> oh I meant 4.4.0-77-generic
<oSoMoN> good evening everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-03
<oSoMoN> good morning
<Laney> hey
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Laney: any idea when there will be iso images for AA
<Laney> wasn't aware there wasn't tbh
<Laney> not that I've tried
<Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/pending/ looks ok to me
<duflu> davmor2: They work too (I just installed). But expect Unity7 still
<duflu> Also the installer icon on the desktop fails - you can find it in the dash
<duflu> instead
<davmor2> Laney: yes that's not released, released would be in current. Pending is like something in proposed
<Laney> I...
<Laney> I...
<Laney> I know...
<Laney> Your question was "when there will be iso images"
<duflu> I thought pending meant just pending testing(?)
<Laney> it wasn't "why aren't there iso images in current?"
<davmor2> duflu: yes the same as proposed
<duflu> Kind of... except I also thought that yesterday's pending can be today's 'current' and plenty of stuff in proposed is not installed by default still
<duflu> So not related to 'proposed' ?
<Laney> It's not related to artful-proposed
<Laney> It's just some smoke tests that are run on the images and probably need to be configured for artful still
<davmor2> duflu: yes only the yesterdays is todays current bit isn't happening :D
<duflu> Well, for most of the year (fingers crossed)
<davmor2> Laney: do you know how the transition from unity â gnome will happen?
<Laney> ubuntu-desktop will be updated and it will install gnome instead of unity
<davmor2> Laney: right but would that happen on upgrades too or just fresh installs, I ask because it isn't how it has happened in the past and was checking on the expected behaviour so I can test for it later
<Laney> davmor2: yes upgrades too
<Laney> it's sort of open what settings will be migrated and stuff though
<davmor2> Laney: right so at the package level it'll be a gnome-x replaces unity-x and so on right rather than what we have done in the past which was to additionally install gnome-x along side unity-x right?
<Laney> davmor2: It won't uninstall packages off your system if that's what you are asking
<davmor2> Laney: right so people would still be logging into unity by default then
<Laney> I don't know what you're trying to get out of me
<Laney> No
<davmor2> Laney: I'm trying to gauge what would happen on upgrade from 16.04.x to 18.04 and 17.04 to 17.10 so that I can confirm the expected happens basically :)
<Laney> I would expect some kind of transition from Unity sessions to GNOME Shell sessions
<Laney> it's possible that people will still be able to use Unity but I think that will have to be an explicit choice to go back
<davmor2> Laney: right thanks
<Laney> maybe at the very start it'll be a bit rough :)
<Laney> I think Ken's going to do the initial bit of work there
<Laney> (sorry if I made that up)
 * Laney sucks at cdbs
<jbicha> Laney: good morning
<jbicha> just convert it to dh ;)
<jbicha> so, gnome-terminal fails to build because no one submitted Unity7 to https://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apb.html
<Laney> not really something that I maintain
<jbicha> and 'make check' runs desktop-file-validate https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/01_onlyshowin.patch
<Laney> are you sure about that? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97947
<ubot5`> Freedesktop bug 97947 in general "validate: Add Unity7 and Unity8" [Normal,New]
<jbicha> can we get allison[m] to approve that?
<Laney> Just make it say Unity
<Laney> The 7/8 thing isn't the relevant any mroe
<Laney> s/the/that/
<jbicha> ok, gnome-terminal doesn't run on Unity8 but whatever
<Laney> if it turns out Unity 8 gets maintained then we can think about this kind of thing again
<Laney> but I wouldn't waste time on it atm
<jbicha> makes sense
<jbicha> are you going to sync the other gstreamer universe pkgs? https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-gstreamer-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
<Laney> I think I need to do python and editing something and rtsp
<andyrock> good morning
<jbicha> by the way, do-release-upgrade asked me if I wanted to remove obsolete pkgs for artful upgrade; unity8 was part of the obsolete pkgs
<Laney> good
<jbicha> so many people upgrading may get Unity removed (I'm guessing if they manually installed some indicator or something that wanted Unity the removal might not happen though)
<mitya57> Laney, hi, whatâs the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~malaperle/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu-themes/+merge/294568 ? Should I include it in my ubuntu-themes landing?
<Laney> mitya57: evidently not uploaded, so feel free
<Laney> I thought it was though
<Laney> so maybe check?
<mitya57> Oh right, it was merged
<Laney> dunno why the mp isn't marked as so
<Trevinho> hey guys
<Trevinho> kenvandine: I fixed the issue with shadows and resizing in GS..
<kenvandine> Trevinho, woot!
<Trevinho> I need to cover other cases tho, so I've not a MP ready yet
<kenvandine> Trevinho, what was it?
<Trevinho> kenvandine: 'decoration' class had to set the margin (and the border-radious to get rid of the corners) too.
<kenvandine> Trevinho, cool, let me know when you have an MP ready
<kenvandine> Trevinho, and thanks!
<Trevinho> kenvandine: sure
<Trevinho> kenvandine: for now you can just have the fix with
<Trevinho> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24505169/
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Any chance you can sponsor the gnome-user-docs patch? Since you subscribed to the bug report, I haven't (yet) subscribed ubuntu-sponsors.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I'm already looking at it :)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Cool, thanks!
<oSoMoN> qengho, hey, not sure if you saw my question last week about chromium translations?
<oSoMoN> I was wondering whether https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+templates is still in use?
<qengho> oSoMoN: I have some tools to construct debian patches to apply Launchpad translations, but they're not well tested.
<qengho> oSoMoN: Upstream doesn't carry any translations from Launchpad.
<oSoMoN> qengho, and what about desktop file translations? if we were to update the strings in the desktop file (see bug #1668730), how do we go about updating the template, and then the actual translations in the desktop file, is there a tool for that?
<ubot5`> bug 1668730 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Tweak .desktop Actions for more consistency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668730
<qengho> oSoMoN: I don't know of a tool for desktop file, but there may be a generic one.
 * qengho brb
<Laney> plars: any chance you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/utah/skip-wubi-more/+merge/323328 please?
<plars> Laney: I'm not a utah guru, and I don't really have a good way to test it but I can sanity check and ack if that's all you need?
<Laney> plars: if it gets merged that's what I need
<plars> Laney: done!
<Laney> thanks :D
<Laney> now... hope the smoke tests run from the branch
<plars> Laney: I have no idea if someone has it setup with tarmac, so let me know if I need to manually merge it or something
<xnox> plars, to be honest that python script is fairly stand alone. I believe i did run it just against the iso, sans any utah-voodo
<Laney> don't see any bot comments on recent MPs
<xnox> plars, it looks like it's manual push thing.
<Laney> so no tarmac AFAICT
<plars> :(
<Laney> then xnox can kick the job again
<oSoMoN> qengho, I take it from your previous comment about upstream that http://davidplanella.org/chromium-opens-to-community-translations-in-launchpad/ is no longer a thing?
<plars> Laney: xnox: pushed to trunk
<Laney> plars: cheers
<plars> happy to help
<Laney> now if only I had powers on platform-qa-jenkins O:)
<xnox> Laney, to be honest, we need to sort that out.
<xnox> Laney, i want more admin admin rights there, to grant other people rights.
<Laney> go forth and seek them out
<xnox> triggered https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-iso-static-validation/
<Laney> looks bad
<qengho> oSoMoN: Correct. Chromium has professional translators, and were always a bit hostile to translation contribution.
<xnox> Laney, plars - hm, i can't remember how new utah code got deployed. i wonder if there is some recipe that builds the packages and updates things. cause i can't see any checkouts of code anywhere at the moment.
<Laney> xnox: I think it might have to be deployed on that venonat host
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~utah/utah/dev/+recipes
<xnox> looks encouranging
<xnox> it was built by magic 8 minutes ago. i wonder if it got triggered on commit somehow
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/+recipe/utah-production
<Laney> that's what happens yeah
<Laney> but will it get dist-upgraded to on the host?
<xnox> let's see if things are better tomorrow =)
<Laney> let's forget and remember in a week*
<Laney> :P
<xnox> aha
<xnox> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/All/job/iso-testing-setup/configure
<xnox> has things like:
<xnox> sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/canonical-platform-qa-jenkins-prod
<xnox> sudo apt-get update
<xnox> sudo apt-get install -y --force-yes download-latest-test-iso dl-ubuntu-test-iso utah
<xnox> [ -d /data/iso ] || sudo mkdir /data/iso
<xnox> sudo chown -R jenkins:jenkins /data/iso
<xnox> pip3 install --user junit_xml
<xnox> looks one needs to manually trigger it
<xnox> INFO: Skipped: Skipping images without wubi.
<xnox> win
<plars> \o/
<Laney> nice
<Laney> keep an eye on https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/2/console
<Laney> argh
<Laney> next door are doing drilling
<flocculant> Laney: downstairs drilling at 11pm couldn't work out why I was so Â£$%Â£$%^ at him
<xnox> Laney, checkout https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/ now, amd64 went into full test all the things mode now =)
<xnox> and i386 will soon too.
<xnox> Laney, can we please stop making i386 desktop images?!
<Laney> dunno
<jbicha> xnox: Ubuntu GNOME was probably days away from announcing that there would be no more UG i386 images after 18.04 LTS when Mark made his little announcement firstâ¦
<xnox> jbicha, after 18.04? as in you still wanted to make 18.04 LTS i386 images?
 * xnox is *sad*
<jbicha> xnox: yes, because it's not nice to strand people on 17.04 or 17.10
<jbicha> so if you want i386 to go away, at least for flavors now is the time to push for it
<Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/current/ looks updated
<xnox> Laney, smoke default passed for both i386 and amd64, so the links should be updated, yeah.
<xnox> jbicha, you say that about stranding people, the argument was that we will not be able provide security support for i386 for key server and desktop things.
<xnox> and therefore it will fallout, e.g. if firefox drops i386 support
<xnox> it will affect 16.04, as we do wholesome backports for firefox security updates.
<tjaalton> and upgrades would still be possible without images
<jbicha> xnox: do you want to start the ubuntu-devel list thread then?
<xnox> tjaalton, yes that.
<jbicha> tjaalton: the Ubuntu GNOME proposal was to *kill* upgrades too
<tjaalton> jbicha: ah
<xnox> jbicha, no, you will not be allowed to do that.
<jbicha> update-manager/do-release-upgrade would not allow upgrading past 18.04 LTS
<xnox> because it is a lot of pain, on the archive maintaince side of things
<xnox> we have tried to e.g. kill upstart on s390x alone, and that caused a hell of a lot of pain, due to transient arch:all packages.
<xnox> which jump hoops with arch:any depends.
<jbicha> of course, there is a workaround if someone really wanted to install i386 but it wouldn't be supported by Ubuntu GNOME
<jbicha> xnox: I think I'm talking about something different than what you are?
<jbicha> also, flavors tend to have shorter support frames
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support
 * ogra_ sighs ... so my terminals are back to taking minutes to start when spawned with ctrl-alt+t ... and i forgot what the workaround was that i had to use last time this happened
<xnox> not really, most flavors did sign up for the full LTS cycles.
<xnox> jbicha, i think we will keep packages in the archive. Even if we e.g. publish i386 ones into universe, and amd64 ones into main.
<flocculant> xnox: which flavour signed up for full LTS cycle? I know Xubuntu doesn't
<jbicha> xnox: I think Kylin was the only flavor to do 5 years for 16.04
<jbicha> Kylin 16.04 was just Unity plus a bit more so that makes sense
<flocculant> not sure about Kubuntu - but I pretty sure others are 3 years
<xnox> flocculant, need to check the ubuntu-publishing thing with the info.
<jbicha> xnox: yes, if you read the wiki link I posted, I explicitly said that i386 packages would still be built for now; there just wouldn't be images and do-release-upgrade wouldn't let you upgrade
<xnox> apt-cache should show the years of support field.
<xnox> which for kubuntu on xenial appears to be 9m =/
<xnox> xubuntu is 3y
<xnox> at least as per metadata
 * flocculant is glad you said that ...
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/#Official_flavours
<xnox> ok, email sent.
<xnox> i hope this is not going to hit softpedia / omg ubuntu / what-not like the upstart email i sent the other day
<jbicha> xnox: you might as well email them too since you know they're going to report it :|
<xnox> jbicha, well, i added an opening note for those journalists.
<jbicha> why do you want to maintain the upgrade path?
<jbicha> if you think it's unsupportable, then don't have an easy upgrade button!
<xnox> jbicha, i do not want to maintain the upgrade path; but we will maintain the archive, because otherwise it is a load of pain
<jbicha> well you used the words "upgrade path"
<xnox> jbicha, server/IoT will be supported, and unwinding desktop on one arch, but not the others is a lot of work, and it constantly clogs up britney as we have discovered when we compiled unity8 on s390x by accident and then tried to back-paddle out of it.
 * xnox goes to read my message again
<jbicha> xnox: why can't we just have do-release-upgrade and update-manager *not* offer the upgrade if ubuntu-desktop (or similar metapackage) is installed?
<xnox> jbicha, on the flavors bit. Yes, because it will be available. We may choose not to publish upgrade-manager metadata, but the upgrade will be available.
<xnox> jbicha, we can, but one is better off with supported i386 base from 18.04 even if the desktopy stuff is not supported anymore.
<xnox> because we will maintain the core/base/platform stuff for i386 still in 18.04 due to IoT and cloud-guest.
<jbicha> xnox: then they can just use the netinst or manually hack their sources.list
<xnox> my ultimate thinking there was this
<xnox> we cannot safely or easily or automatically cross-grade people from i386 to amd64
<jbicha> right
<xnox> thus we will keep the archive there (even if with updates enabled)
<xnox> and just wait for all of them to reinstall into amd64.
 * xnox by updates i mean upgrade-manager
<xnox> "continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"
<xnox> and by support, i mean not do much at all =)
<jbicha> unless you make it difficult for them, some people will keep using i386 for as long as they can
<oSoMoN> qengho, thanks, that confirms what I suspected
<jbicha> if it's a pain to install, then they might just try the easier amd64 option
<xnox> jbicha, i don't want to break people's installs intentionally. The biggest drop-off of i386 usage came from stopping  advertising the images.
<xnox> (existing installs)
<jbicha> how will it break installs?
<xnox> by making them insecure, because we will have a supported i386 kernel, and I do want people to use supported i386 kernels.
<xnox> disabling upgrades, is effectively making those installs vulnerable.
<xnox> because internet is a nasty place with funny cat videos.
<jbicha> I'm sure there will be plenty of guides showing them how to install from netinst because it's not *that* difficult
<jbicha> I got the impression that in a year or two or so, we will break people's installs by forcibly removing Firefox from i386 computers?
<jbicha> so it would be better to be more firm about making existing users aware that the platform is no longer supported for desktops
<mdeslaur> I don't think we should upgrade i386 users to later releases...just let them get to the end of their support period and have update-manager just pop up the usual "no longer supported" dialog
<xnox> jbicha, well, if we remove firefox i386, i'm sure we will install something useful to replace that. e.g. w3m or elinks....
 * xnox *giggles*
<mdeslaur> we will unlikely be testing i386 desktop packages if we don't have install media
<xnox> mdeslaur, we currently uder test i386 install media; but we do test i386 packages quite a bit via autopkgtesting. But it is more server/cli focused.
<mdeslaur> yeah, but we do test i386 security updates
<xnox> mdeslaur, i disagree about the ugprade paths. Leaving i386 users on 17.04 is sad, leaving them on 16.04 or 18.04 is responsible.
<mdeslaur> which we probably won't be doing anymore
<xnox> mdeslaur, you will because of iot.
<mdeslaur> xnox: not desktop packages, no
<xnox> and that does include web browser engine
<xnox> because of sinage
<xnox> signage?
<xnox> the kiosk thing
<mdeslaur> xnox: I guess getting broken updates is better than getting no updates
<mdeslaur> perhaps
<xnox> mdeslaur, i don't buy that no test security updates. You are doing them for i386 for 16.04. Thus we can at least make 18.04 i386 desktop a 3year support thing, no?
<xnox> mdeslaur, or possibly 4yr because of 16.04 ESM
<xnox> mdeslaur, yeah, i am for broken updates on i386.
<xnox> at least we will have some feedback about that, rather than leaving, knowngly, vulnerable machines out there.
<mdeslaur> xnox: you're suggesting supporting i386 18.04, but just not having install media?
<xnox> yes.
<mdeslaur> sorry, I need to re-read your post
<mdeslaur> I guess we could netinst a desktop system for testing
<xnox> mdeslaur, we support existing installs only "continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"
<xnox> mdeslaur, you will boot the cloud image and install ubuntu-desktop
<xnox> we will have cloud images, because we must for cloud-guest container; buildds; adt testing; and to produce/test iot & core/snappy.
<mdeslaur> I can install a cloud image on real hardware?
<xnox> mdeslaur, yes.
<xnox> mdeslaur, it's call MAAS or subiquity
<mdeslaur> ah, with the subiquity installer, I see
<xnox> have you tried subiquity? the UX is amazing
<mdeslaur> xnox: can I use my mouse? :P
<xnox> althought it did not succeed for me, to complete.
<mdeslaur> no, I didn't try it
<xnox> mdeslaur, better you can use Alexa to guide it, thanks to the Amazon Cloud Voice recognition API
<mdeslaur> lol
<xnox> and auto-configuration with router config.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I think I'll have gnome-user-guide recommend ubuntu-docs if you don't mind (instead of depends)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: In that case I actually think that depends is more correct. Given the pending changes in debian/rules, gnome-user-guide won't work without ubuntu-docs (no index.page file).
<jbicha> it depends on how big of a deal the "circular dependency" problem really is
<GunnarHj> Is that bad style?
<jbicha> I don't think I've ever experienced a problem because of it, but Debian people tell me it is bad
<GunnarHj> ok
<GunnarHj> jbicha: But then I'd say depends in gnome-user-docs and recommends in ubuntu-docs, i.e. the other way around.
<jbicha> I believe Debian upgrades are more complicated than Ubuntu ones
<jbicha> GunnarHj: ok, I'll upload gnome-user-docs with Depends: ubuntu-docs
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Should I make that change in ubuntu-docs?
<GunnarHj> i.e. recommends instead of depends...
<Henster> hey guys , my new Msi windows laptop is looking a bit lonley should i install the 16 lts or the new 17 dual boot  .. i like the idea i only need to partision one for version 17 drive ?
<jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, unless someone else says we can ignore the circular dependency issue on Ubuntu
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Let's be cautious; I'll change it.
<Henster> should i just do Gnome .. aaah im so undesided now ,, want to cry ,,,
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Just to be clear: I can wait with uploading ubuntu-docs 17.10.3 until after gnome-user-docs is in release, right?
<jbicha> GunnarHj: yes or you can upload now
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Hmm.. Suppose I can do it now since it no longer *depends* on u-g-d. I'll do so, so we have all the control stuff in place.
<cyphermox> jbicha: g-c-c MIR is "accepted" inasmuch as the only issue I have with it is that unit tests aren't being run
<jbicha> cyphermox: since you're here, could you look into LP: #1687474 and LP: #1686726 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1687474 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-user-docs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687474
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1686726 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-getting-started-docs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686726
<cyphermox> sure, they're open tabs, I just had to deal with other stuff first :)
<cyphermox> oh, dh_scour: we should fix that, I saw another such bug and I should still have some code somewhere
<jbicha> could you be more specific about control-center? it looks to me like we are not disabling tests there
<cyphermox> jbicha: g-s-s, I got things mixed up
<jbicha> ok, understood
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-04
<oSoMoN> good morning
<Laney> hey
<Laney> it's a nice day!
<duflu> Morning Laney. You must have sent me your clouds. Haven't seen any for a long time till today
<Laney> hey duflu
<Laney> the prospect of rain must be welcome for you?
<duflu> It's a novelty. Clouds are a novelty
<Laney> we've had much less than the normal amount of rain recently
<Laney> xnox: looks like you won the fight
<andyrock> morning
<Laney> hey andyrock
<Laney> you good?
<andyrock> not bad, enjoying spring
<andyrock> what about you?
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<andyrock> hey duflu
<davmor2> forgot to say morning all
<davmor2> so morning all
<davmor2> Laney: I see we have our first iso woohoo!
 * duflu perks up
<Laney> andyrock: not bad!
<Laney> hi davmor2
<Laney> yes, by one way of counting
<xnox> Laney, it shall be forever known as the Motreal job
<Laney> initctl stop upstart :'(
<xnox> we will still need to do the great repeal act of unity* stuff
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> here's a bad bug (non-Ubuntu I believe): https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/freeing-disk-space-with-the-packagekit-cache/
<davmor2> Laney: do you know why there are identical items in the notifications section of system settings for gnome at all? I thought it might be obvious when I clicked on them but neither of them are different
<Laney> don't know what you mean
<jbicha> davmor2: I think that's another side effect of the issue from LP: #1662296
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1662296 in unity (Ubuntu) "Remap renamed .desktop files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662296
<davmor2> jbicha: ah okay that would make sense
<jbicha> although gnome-control-center should probably not show stuff that has NoDisplay=true set
<jbicha> I see duplicates for Archive Manager and Files which are apps where we duplicate the .desktop
<Laney> I imagine you could add "&& !g_desktop_app_info_get_nodisplay (app)" here https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/notifications/cc-notifications-panel.c#n515
<Laney> or g_app_info_should_show()
<jbicha> davmor2: are you going to follow up on the NoDisplay bug with GNOME?
<davmor2> I'm doing some deep dive testing at the minute so as soon as that is over there will be a raft of bugs issuing forth so that the teams involved can decide what to kept and lose etc
<Laney> jbicha: is there a gnome-software branch or package with the meson build somewhere?
<jbicha> Laney: I have not done anything with gnome-software 3.24 (at least not since like Zesty Feature Freeze)
<Laney> ok
<jbicha> if you're working on meson though, maybe we should get the debhelper meson support into artful to try that out?
<Laney> maybe, doesn't really matter to me
<Laney> that's a trivial part of it
<Laney> just didn't want to duplicate work
<jbicha> the only meson thing I've done so far is https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-gnome/graphene.git/tree/debian/rules
<oSoMoN> Sweetshark, hey, IÂ was wondering what the rationale was for checking out the sources from git instead of using a release tarball in https://git.launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/df-libreoffice/+git/libreoffice-snap-playground/tree/parts/plugins/x_libreoffice.py?h=xenial ?
<xnox> Laney, are we going to maintain indicators, that are used by e.g. unity7 and other flavors? or are we gonna remove all of them?
 * xnox at the moment skips everything that is in use by any other seeds, e.g. unity7
<kenvandine> xnox, i've been thinking we'd just leave them in universe and see if anyone that needs them helps keep them working
<kenvandine> s/leave/demote to/
<ogra_> xnox, given sabdfl promised users that unity7 would be in universe in 18.04 they shouldnt be removed but just demoted (i guess the hope is MOTU picks them up or some community devs care for them)
 * ogra_ high fives kenvandine 
<kenvandine> :)
<Laney> 'given to the community' is a joke
<gQuigs> I'd rather see us do a Gnome-Shell based "Unity Classic" mode or something
<Laney> but as things stand I think, yes, leave unity 7 things
<xnox> ogra_, there was no such promise about unity7... where did you see that? he said "ubuntu desktop team will work on replacing unity7 with gnome by 18.04 lts" when we remove unity7 is up to us.
<ogra_> xnox, in his announcement and on G+
<xnox> obviously we cannot remove unity7 things until we have switched to gnome and things mostly work.
<ogra_> (and in a few interviews)
<xnox> ogra_, do you have urls? i've stopped using g+ for a while now.
 * xnox goes to google things
<ogra_> i think OMGubuntu aggregated some of that
<Laney> I wouldn't worry about it right now
<ogra_> in an article or two
<Laney> Just do the Unity 8 / phone stuff at first
<jbicha> xnox: "Unity7 packages will continue to be carried in the archive, I know there are quite a few people who care enough about it to keep it up to date.
<jbicha> I expect it will be in universe for 18.04 LTS." from https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH (his comment is about 30 comments down)
 * xnox reads https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ and there is nothing about keeping unity7 around
<xnox> jbicha, Laney - i am sceptical that people care about keeping unity7 packages uptodate, given that the experience will degrade as we move things over to GNOME-like, e.g. menus disappearing and similar.
<Laney> Fine, yes, I agree as I just said
<Laney> but you don't have to solve all the problems at once
<xnox> true.
<Laney> :)
<Laney> thanks for working on the deletions
<ogra_> xnox, "Unity7 packages will continue to be carried in the archive, I know there are quite a few people who care enough about it to keep it up to date. I expect it will be in universe for 18.04 LTS" ... from marks comments in https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH ... it was spread by several news sites (phoronix, omgubuntu etc)
<jbicha> ogra_: that's what I said! ;)
<xnox> ogra_, well he can expect anything =) include unity8, convergence, and phone taking over the world ;-)
<xnox> ogra_, well he can expect anything =) including unity8, convergence, and phone taking over the world ;-)
<ogra_> (this is also where he says thet mir development for IoT goes on)
<xnox> ogra_, sure, mir does; qtmir on the other hand....
<ogra_> qtmir will surely live on somewhere in a ubports PPA
<xnox> ogra_, foundations position is that we should not be keeping unmaintained bit-rotting code in the archive, and pretending that "well it can be there, because we don't really support it anyway"
<ogra_> (if they find the manpower to make the project survive)
<mdeslaur> xnox: oh! can I make you a list of all the unmaintained bit-rotting code that is in the default images? :)
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> multi-screen in 6px font ?
<xnox> mdeslaur, i know that you want to remove simply everything. =)
<xnox> mdeslaur, where shall we start with unmaintained things: glibc, openssl, linux -> so many bugs, so many CVEs, unbelievable, worst deal ever.
<xnox> mdeslaur, but honestly, if there are concerns about unmaintained things, yes let's look at what we want to drop.
<xnox> mdeslaur, my mini-personal goal is to shrink main by 30%
<mdeslaur> that would be nice
<jbicha> xnox: I'll try not to nominate you for ~ubuntu-mir then ;)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/graphs/packages.png
<xnox> mdeslaur, so https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-February/016208.html caused 1521 packages to drop off?! nice =)
<mdeslaur> xnox: yep! :)
 * jbicha files more MIRs to get the graph back up to 8000 ;)
<xnox> jbicha, has gnome exploded into thousand source packages yet?
 * mdeslaur is happy jbicha is volunteering to do security updates!
<jbicha> ugh
<mdeslaur> hehe
<mdeslaur> we only have a 74 usn backlog at the moment
<ogra_> mdeslaur, just make sure the packages with USNs are on xnox's removal list ... done
<mdeslaur> he mentioned php and the kernel, right? :)
 * xnox would love to remove perl and php
<ogra_> sublimal he did i think
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/graphs/pkgs-xenial.png
<ogra_> *sublimally
<xnox> hmmmmm are we dropping oxide-qt and webbrowser-app?
<kenvandine> xnox, i thought there was a kiosk use case we cared about there
<xnox> kenvandine, yes, but i herd that doesn't use that, or does it?
<xnox> kenvandine, yes, but i heard that it doesn't use that, or does it?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, ^^
<ogra_> well, that would mean you need to keep the qml framework as well
 * xnox ponders who from kiosk people i can talk to
<ogra_> ... which definitely nobody maintains anymore
<kenvandine> oSoMoN would likely know more about that
<xnox> kenvandine, i heard it uses "chromium direct to mir" but i have no idea if that, in fact, is oxide-qt or not.
<jbicha> yeah, it looks like oSoMoN is the only one to make oxide commits recently
<ogra_> i also think you cant use the browser-support interface on UbuntuCore currently ... so kiosk is moot atm
<ogra_> (probably desired though)
<ogra_> kenvandine, i would expect such apps to be electron based in the end
<kenvandine> ogra_, perhaps
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, jbicha: I havenât heard anything about the fate of oxide yet
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, do you know if the kiosk work is based on oxide-qt in any way?
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: oxide? ^
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i seem to remember some talk about that, but i wasn't involved so didn't really pay attention :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, the prototype was, I don't know about the real thing though
<kenvandine> ah
<gQuigs> was there a real thing?  I've only seen a prototype?
<gQuigs> ..
<jdstrand> ogra_: you can use browser-support on core. it is no longer implicit classic. I tested this with mir on dragonboard and webbrowser-app
<jdstrand> oSoMoN: that was the prototype ^
<ogra_> jdstrand, ah, cool ... last time i checked (quite a while ago) it wasnt
 * jdstrand worked to make the interfaces and policy work for the signage use case
<xnox> oSoMoN, any idea who is working on the new world order kiosks?
<oSoMoN> xnox, nope
<kenvandine> jbicha, have you looked into the autopkgtest failures in shotwell?
<kenvandine> UInput: UInputError('"/dev/uinput" cannot be opened for writing',)
<jbicha> kenvandine: yes, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781802
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 781802 in import "Ubuntu import autopkgtest fails with 0.26.1" [Major,New]
<jbicha> is the ios8 patch more important or the regression it introduces? is the regression important or just a problem with the umock file? I don't know
<kenvandine> interesting
<kenvandine> ok
<jbicha> I also opened https://bugs.debian.org/861579
<ubot5`> Debian bug 861579 in shotwell "shotwell: 0100-ios8.patch fails Ubuntu's autopkgtest" [Normal,Open]
<kenvandine> gnome-software uses a surprising amount of memory without even having the app open
<kenvandine> virt, but still 1.6G is a bit crazy
<jbicha> kenvandine: yes, bug 1592678 complains about other problems of it always running
<ubot5`> bug 1592678 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software starts very early in the session, slowing down boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592678
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-05
<oSoMoN> good morning
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, the chromium-browser stable update (58.0.3029.96) is ready at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages
<Trevinho> morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> :)
<duflu> Trevinho, how did Singapore treat you?
<Trevinho> duflu: very well...
<Trevinho> duflu: also both the airlines I took were good, despite the comments around
<Trevinho> you maybe didn't ever try ryanair at the "golden age"
<duflu> Trevinho, did you wander around the domes and gardens by the bay?
<Trevinho> duflu: I quite liked it... And you can both have a  cheap and pricy life there... Depending on your mood :-)
<Trevinho> duflu: yeah, saw both... Night and day.
<Trevinho> duflu: went also to Marina Bay sands rooftop
<Trevinho> quite amazing
<duflu> Nice
<duflu> Trevinho, yes I would think Marina Bay is not in the cheap category
<duflu> But it's impressive
<Trevinho> duflu: no.. Well, just one time in life... But not crazy. Got a dinner for 25â¬ so, you can have the same threatment in worst places in europe for that.
<Trevinho> *err, worse threatement for the same price :-D
<duflu> Yeah, fair point. Although a tropical climate helps lift the appearance in places
<Trevinho> yeah... True. Normal woods just look like gardens.
<duflu> Depends if you like sweating or wearing coats
<Trevinho> not really... But I can accept that for having beauty around.
<duflu> Heh. Italy is probably the sweet spot
<Trevinho> duflu: well, sure... But, you know... Better to be far till we can :-D
<Laney> guten morgen
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Laney: but how do you know Morgan isn't Guten intolerant ;)  It's Friday I'm happy get over the corny jokes and laugh :D
 * Laney force feeds davmor2 a kilo of polenta
<duflu> Morgen
<duflu> das ist das
<duflu> or something
<duflu> Laney: I see you packaged some gstreamer plugins. Do you know about the status of MSDK support introduced in gst 1.12?
<duflu> Looks like it might be behind a license/library we won't like
<duflu> And I have to agree to things with Intel just to see the SDK
<davmor2> guten tag works not many people feed their watches guten :D
<Laney> duflu: well, it's not built in Ubuntu or Debian atm because we don't have the dependency packaged
<Laney> maybe because of that issue
<Laney> in the good case it would be because nobody's packaged it yet
 * Laney didn't look tbh
<duflu> Laney: Indeed sounds like the usual... I got overexcited when it was the headline feature of GStreamer 1.12. Didn't stop to thing about missing intermediate packaging/libraries/licensing for Ubuntu
<duflu> *think
<duflu> Stop to *think*
<duflu> Odd that ffmpeg skipped MSDK and optionally uses a BSD-licensed intermediate library (also by Intel)
<duflu> to access QuickSync Video hardware
<Laney> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-bad/tree/sys/msdk/meson.build
<duflu> Laney: Thanks, yeah looks like msdk_lib might be hard for us right now. But I wonder what the feature gap is compared to VAAPI...
<duflu> In the end both should use Intel's hardware
<Trevinho> ah, hey Laney
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> :)
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, ack. Publishing will have to wait until after the weekend though
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, sure, never release on a Friday
<davmor2> Laney: are you using gnome on dual monitor setup by any chance?
<Laney> no
<Laney> I have a feeling that chrisccoulson might be
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: ^
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: can you please check the details on screen 1 and screen 2 for resolution and screensize for me please for some reason for me sometimes it reads correctly 15.6 for laptop and 24 for monitor other times it says 15.6 for both
<chrisccoulson> davmor2, it's correct here (15.6 on one and 24 on the other)
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: thanks
<andyrock> morning
<Trevinho> hi andyrock
<darkxst_> jbicha, boom! guess what just landed at my place ;)
<jbicha> darkxst_: ADSL? wow, that took longer than expected
<darkxst_> jbicha, correct! but this is telstra you are talking about!
<Laney> I... I just finished the last of the tea /o\
<darkxst> hey laney
<Trevinho> Laney: We can move the gtk-3.20 subfolder from the ubuntu themes now, right?
<Laney> hi darkxst
<Laney> Trevinho: errrrr, move it where?
<Trevinho> Laney: 3.20 -> 3
<Trevinho> 3.0
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> what would that do?
<Trevinho> I mean we're not shipping gtk older than 3.0?
<Trevinho> err. 3.20, no?
<Laney> oh
<Trevinho> although... I wasn't remembering... snaps might do, so better to keep it.
<Laney> well we wanted to keep it backportable to xenial
<Trevinho> yeah...
 * darkxst finally has internet again up here in the mountains!
<Laney> darkxst: how remote *is* this place?
<Laney> pix/map pls
<darkxst> Laney, ~5hrs drive from melbourne, ~1hr drive from the closest supermarket
<darkxst> ~2hrs drive to the closest big regional town
<davmor2> Laney: it's like Wales then :D
<darkxst> davmor2, summer population of about 30
<Laney> hope you've got land to grow stuff
<davmor2> really is wales then
<darkxst> nope
<darkxst> but we get lots of snow in winter ;)
<davmor2> darkxst: and why are you moving to a mountain in the middle of nowhere?
<jbicha> davmor2: he's been there almost a year!
<davmor2> mad fool :D
<darkxst> davmor2, its an amazing place, apart from the fact it took ~11months to get internet ;(
<davmor2> darkxst: hahahahahaha
<davmor2> darkxst: but is it good internet that is the question
<darkxst> davmor2, by australian standards yes
<darkxst> adsl with 15mbps down
<darkxst> the telstra exchange is moving next week, that should speed it up a bit more also
<davmor2> darkxst: ouch
<darkxst> we don't have high speed internet in australia, especially now with the fraud-band NBN
<darkxst> 5% of the population got fibre, maybe 10-20% will get 100Mbps and the rest will be stuck in the 12-25mbps bracket
<darkxst> and it only cost 60billion
<laney_> eheheheh
<kenvandine> jbicha, bug 1688551
<ubot5`> bug 1688551 in chrome-gnome-shell (Ubuntu Zesty) "Update chrome-gnome-shell to version 9 in all supported releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688551
<kenvandine> jbicha, i've uploaded srus for xenial, yakkety and zesty
<jbicha> thanks
<kenvandine> np
<ricotz> jbicha, hi ;), any chance to fakesync vala from debian NEW queue?
<jbicha> ricotz: the ftpmaster have been processing new fairly quickly so I was just going to wait a few days
<ricotz> jbicha, hmm, alright
<cyphermox> Laney: could you please get desktop-bugs subscribed to gnome-control-center?
<jbicha> cyphermox: I enabled build-tests for mutter, I've got a fix ready for the actor-graph test that failed on armhf and s390x
<jbicha> that leaves just the texture test failing on s390x, how do you recommend I handle that?
<jbicha> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/318513053/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-s390x.mutter_3.24.1-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<jbicha> is it ok to just skip the tests for mutter/s390x? Do we care about gnome-shell on s390x?
<Laney> cyphermox: sure, done
<cyphermox> ta.
<cyphermox> jbicha: you could skip the tests on s390x, I suppose.
<cyphermox> we will quite likely never care about gnome-shell on s390x.
<jbicha> thanks
<xnox> jbicha, s390s is Ubuntu Server product only
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<Laney> nighty night
<Laney> have a good weekend!
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone
<xnox> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webapps-applications/+bug/1688627 opened to migrate webapp from webbrowser-app to soemthing else
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1688627 in webapps-applications (Ubuntu Artful) "Amazon web app needs an implemetation that does not require webbrowser app" [Undecided,New]
<Trevinho> jbicha: hey, would you mind to apply this to nautilus http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24519092/ ?
<Trevinho> as we've a wrong definition for the headerbar style currently... And we should get rid of it, without this nautilus has no proper theming in unity7
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-06
<jbicha> closing ancient mutter bugs from 2010, back when Unity used mutter
<Trevinho> jbicha: did you see my ping about nautilus? :)
<Laney> xnox: ok, didn't really need a bug report but thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-30
<jbicha> duflu: there are reports of h264 videos being broken
<duflu> jbicha, I think I'm on top of such bugs. Which ones?
<jbicha> not sure the guys complaining have filed bugs yet :(
<duflu> jbicha, maybe check these first: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer-vaapi/+bugs?field.tag=radeon
<jbicha> ok
<duflu> jbicha, or generally https://trello.com/c/evbZkeCj
<duflu> jbicha, please also forgive me for assigning these to you. I think I was just copying Marco... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=fixed-in-3.28.2
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hey seb128
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey willcooke :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<didrocks> salut seb128, good week-end, and yourself?
<didrocks> how was the travel?
<seb128> quite nice, train FTW
<didrocks> heh, well, once you skipped the TER :)
<didrocks> how is Berlin?
<seb128> Sunny
<seb128> but didn't see much of it, I arrived at 23h yesterday
<didrocks> ah, indeedâ¦ Coffee FTW as well thus?
<didrocks> :)
<duflu> Morning seb128, willcooke, didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, indeed!
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> seb128, going OK. I was pleased to see upstream already fixed my login failure. But then less pleased to find myself and others can't install bionic on some systems: bug 1767874
<ubot5> bug 1767874 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767874
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut oSoMoN
<willcooke> hey duflu oSoMoN
<willcooke> and didrocks
<seb128> duflu, nice for the login bug, sounds like a good SRU candidate?
<seb128> duflu, do you have details/ideas about what makes ubiquity unhappy on this machine?
<duflu> seb128, it's on the list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=fixed-in-3.28.2
<seb128> duflu, the issue is different from https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227 ?
<duflu> seb128, No idea. Just one laptop the installer keeps failing on. And 887 other reports from others
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 11) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 227 could not be found
<duflu> seb128, yes it's separate
<seb128> k
<duflu> Seems it only happens to people whose password starts with Shift+...
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<didrocks> ~7600 communitheme snaps installed!
<willcooke> didrocks, \m/  that's amazing
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, duflu, didrocks, willcooke, how are you?
<seb128> oSoMoN, good! you? how was ubucon?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, good conf?  How did your talk go?
<duflu> I'm OK. You oSoMoN?
<seb128> duflu, "traps: ubiquity[3581] trap int3 ip:7fd2ca14ec41 sp:7fffd3ffdfa0 error:0 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5600.1[7fd2ca0fd000+113000]" ... can you try to get a bt from that?
<oSoMoN> I'm good, UbuCon was great, I enjoyed it very much
<oSoMoN> and the talk went fine, it was well received apparently
<oSoMoN> the ubuntu-fr loco team wants me to do it again next month at their Ubuntu Party in Paris
<willcooke> oSoMoN, nice!! well done and thank you
<seb128> duflu, could be the same as bug #1751252
<ubot5> bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubiquity crashed with signal 5 in _XEventsQueued()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252
<duflu> seb128, yeah maybe. Hard to verify as the version of glib changed
<duflu> afk
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for looking at/commenting on the initial setup issue
<didrocks> seb128: yw!
<seb128> it's annoying that the individual reports don't contain enough content to tell us if https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/32345bd88e1c6091a5af096d1a5b22c13bdab1b6 is still bug #1723365
<ubot5> bug 1723365 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "/usr/share/session-migration/scripts/unity-gnome-shell-migration.17.10.py:5:g_settings_set_property:object_set_property:g_object_new_internal:g_object_new_valist:g_object_new" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723365
<seb128> well still "Settings schema 'org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock' is not installed\n"
<seb128> did we ever safeguard that key usage?
<didrocks> normally, we did
 * didrocks looks
<didrocks> ah, that one is not guarded
<didrocks> seb128: I'll open a bug and assign it to me
<seb128> didrocks, thx
<seb128> I think we have a bug?
<didrocks> seb128: well, it's duplicate to a fix release on another schema, correct?
<seb128> didrocks, bug #1720310
<ubot5> bug 1720310 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "unity-gnome-shell-migration.18.08.py crashed with signal 5 in g_object_new_valist() due to gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock not installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720310
<didrocks> so it's a bad duplication, correct?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> e.u.c/apport can't tell "abort on a missing key" for different schemas/keys appart
<didrocks> yeah, that's why it needs a new bug IMHO
<seb128> it just has the stack of functions not the arguments
<seb128> well ^
<seb128> is that one no?
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> second one
<didrocks> good, yeah :)
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> sorry for forgetting about it during the cycle
<seb128> we said it was weird cases/wouldn't be important
<didrocks> well, upgrades from 16.04 aren't supported yet :p
<seb128> but e.u.c metrics shows quite some users hits it, so better to silent the error
<didrocks> ah, from 17.10â¦
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> people force removing the dock? weird
<seb128> or upgrading with apt without having ubuntu-desktop installed
<seb128> such not getting the dock
<didrocks> yeah, apt cowboying instead of d-r-u
<seb128> likely
<seb128> but it's still noise which is easy to fix
<didrocks> anyway, I'll handle it
<didrocks> correct
<seb128> thx
<seb128> oSoMoN, bug #1729963 is the most non-snap reported e.u.c, do you know if there is any way to communicate that upstream to motive them to look into the issue?
<ubot5> bug 1729963 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed in OnConnectionDisconnectedFilter()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729963
<seb128> bionic/weekly view
<oSoMoN> seb128, yes, I reported it upstream already, lemme check the status there
<seb128> right, I saw, I just don't know if we can tell them that it's hitting quite some users to motivate them to raise importance
<oSoMoN> not much progress upstream
<oSoMoN> yeah, I'll comment on the bug
<seb128> thx
<duflu> Ugh, morning in UK. And Launchpad gives up
<seb128> duflu, I think they do live rollout around that time that impact it for 15 min or so often
<seb128> more than U.K/europe waking up
<didrocks> popey: hey, do you mind adding frederik-f to the communitheme group?
<popey> didrocks: done
<didrocks> thanks! :-)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<didrocks> hey czajkowski, how goes?
<czajkowski> didrocks: it goes ok
<czajkowski> upgraded last night to 18.04
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> didrocks: and yourself ?
<didrocks> czajkowski: upgraded a longgggggggg time ago :p
<didrocks> czajkowski: going well ;)
<czajkowski> didrocks: figured everyone would be on holidays now :)
<didrocks> czajkowski: I wish! We have anyway a lot of days off in May, so it should work out
<czajkowski> didrocks: are you still in France?
<czajkowski> paris?
<didrocks> czajkowski: I live in Lyon actually
<didrocks> way better than Paris :p
<czajkowski> didrocks: ah so not as badly affected with the evil strikes I faced 2 weeks ago when over there for deovxx france
<czajkowski> didrocks: https://twitter.com/Czajkowski/status/990650246295379968  I ran into that issue on upgrade
<czajkowski> currently fighting iwth my login into launchpad to log the issue
<didrocks> czajkowski: well, the strikes are in the whole country, so impacted in some way, but don't need to commute at least :p
<didrocks> czajkowski: yeah, please file a bug, we'll have a look
<Laney> HI!
 * Laney has been giving a tutorial :-)
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> what did you teach people about?
<didrocks> hey Laney! What tutorial? ;)
<Laney> autopkgtest
<Laney> <- juliank sil2100 ->
<seb128> oh, right
<Laney> bus factor is being reduced
<juliank> yes
<Laney> or increased?
<Laney> which way does that go?
<didrocks> heh, I don't think juliank and sil2100 have seen the trap :p
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> Laney, do you know how to debug issues about "GNOME doesn't prompt for ssh passphrase" issues?
<sil2100> It's a trap!
<Laney> seb128: not so much, check $SSH_AUTH_SOCK is right?
<Laney> seb128: try ueno on #gnome-hackers, that's the guy who mainly worked on this stuff last cycle
<seb128> Laney, yeah, env is set and right
<Laney> gnome-keyring starts a real SSH agent now and proxies for that
<Laney> so there should be a process for it
<Laney> with '-a <that directory>/.ssh'
<seb128> yeah, it's for Simon, it's weird, he has the same processes/env that I get
<seb128> like an ssh-agent pointing to /run/...keyring/.ssh
<Laney> after that I don't know, sry, try ueno or get him to
<seb128> k
<seb128> thx
<Laney> he's been quite responsive with me a couple of times
<seb128> thx, he's going to ping him
<Laney> cool
<Laney> #techsupportsprint
<cpaelzer> tkamppeter: hiho, I always had http://www.bchemnet.com/suldr/ for my printer so far, i wonder if for 18.04 I should expect dropping it would be fine?
<cpaelzer> any info on what I should assume?
<cpaelzer> if you think it should work I'd drop the old packages before the release upgrade and try to setup in 18.04
<Laney> :q
<Laney> NO!
<Laney> :w:w:w
<seb128> Wimpress, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/e85d2c87e86374f341f8ae14944592a3b9c9724c looks like one for you
<seb128> they seem to be from your -welcome snap
<seb128> the individual reports seems to be lot of reports from the same system(s), um1804 and hossam-Satellite-C50-A538
<seb128> popey, ^ or maybe you?
 * popey looks
<seb128> those logs also have loops of "canonical-livepatch: permission denied"
<popey> he's at the airport catching a flight home, I've pinged him about it on telegram tho
<Wimpress> Thanks seb128 I'll take a look when I'm home.
<Wimpress> I've taken a look at the errors links earlier, nothing immediately obvious.
<seb128> Wimpress, popey, thanks
<cyphermox> oi
<cyphermox> I was pinged about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1767720
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1767720 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashed during install of 18.04 with error 'BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)'" [Critical,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> looks like something odd maybe in GLib, any idea if there's something that might have caused it?
<cyphermox> for one thing I find in a log Apr 28 20:12:59 ubuntu kernel: [  583.586561] traps: ubiquity[3853] trap int3 ip:7f2cd9202c41 sp:7fff6cb4df40 error:0 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5600.1[7f2cd91b1000+113000]
<cyphermox> (but I'm not reproducing, and support has been unable to reproduce either)
<willcooke> What does "Custom Bionic Beaver" mean in the LiveMediaBuild section?  Does that smell fishy?
<kenvandine> willcooke, where?
<willcooke> in the cyphermox posted to ^
<kenvandine> oh
<seb128> cyphermox, same as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1751252 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,Triaged]
<slashd> I missed cyphermox post, but I think he is refering to -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1767720
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1767720 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashed during install of 18.04 with error 'BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)'" [Critical,Incomplete]
<seb128> yeah, seems the same as the one I mentioned
<seb128> Apr 28 20:12:59 ubuntu kernel: [  583.586561] traps: ubiquity[3853] trap int3 ip:7f2cd9202c41 sp:7fff6cb4df40 error:0 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5600.1[7f2cd91b1000+113000]
<seb128> Apr 28 20:13:09 ubuntu /install.py: ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''
<cyphermox> seb128: could be the same
<seb128> cyphermox, the syslog has ^
<seb128> which sounds the same issue
<cyphermox> to be clear, the "invalid literal" is a red herring, I think
<cyphermox> ubiquity crashes in some weird way, then debconf can't continue, it lost its input.
<seb128> can anyone reproduce?
<seb128> sounded like duflu could, we can ask him more tomorrow
<cyphermox> seeing as jibel files 1751252, he might too
<cyphermox> that was in february, though
<seb128> whoever who can reproduce, would be useful to install libgtk-3-0-dbgsym and start ubiquity under gdb with --sync and "b gdk_x_error"
<seb128> see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30078005/how-to-break-on-gdk-x-error-using-gdb
<willcooke> heading out, night all
<Laney> SLACKER!
<slashd> seb128, I can't reproduce but I have a crash in hand
<slashd> seb128, https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/BgGsN3hNXv/
<didrocks> Laney: :p
<seb128> slashd, that's not very useful, xerror are async so it doesn"t tell us what is the error and who is the caller, we need to reproduce when --sync is used
<slashd> seb128, gotcha
 * oSoMoN goes offline, have a good evening everyone, see you on Wednesday
<d33tah> hi! i'm looking for someone who could help me debug my issue with 18.04 not initializing my motherboard gpu in xorg. any ideas where/who to look for?
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, since tomorrow is 1st of may I guess we'll skip the meeting, right?
<seb128> Trevinho, I don't think so, please send your weekly summary
<seb128> it's not an holiday in the U.K or U.S afaik
<Trevinho> ah ok...
<seb128> Trevinho, hey btw :)
<seb128> Trevinho, also I assigned you some bugs on launchpad, please triage/comment as appropriate
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, sure... I was swapping today so I'll look them better on 2nd
<seb128> yeah, no hurry
<seb128> enjoy the long w.e!
<seb128> Trevinho, feel free to skip the weekly summary sending since you are off today/tomorrow
<seb128> just pretend you didn't know :)
<d33tah> is there a channel dedicated to xorg/lowlevel display aspect of ubuntu?
<Trevinho> ahaha, well I can write a few lines
<seb128> Trevinho, thx
<seb128> Trevinho, enjoy the days off today and tomorrow :)
<seb128> Trevinho, when are you back in Europe?
<Trevinho> seb128: on 2nd
<Trevinho> so tomorrow will be travelling
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> safe travel!
<sarnold> d33tah: none that I know of. it might be easier to file a bug report, tha way anyone who does work on it won't have to be active the same time you are
<Trevinho> thanks
<d33tah> sarnold: sounds like a solution, thanks. it's just that i was hoping for a synchronous experimentation
<sarnold> d33tah: heh, yeah, when that works out it can be *way* faster ...
<d33tah> sarnold: any chance you have some guidelines to reporting xorg regressions for ubuntu?
<sarnold> d33tah: nothing specific to xorg, just the usual "report what you see, what you expected, include details" advice
<sarnold> *loads* of xorg bugs are automatically filed with nearly no information on what went wrong, so a bug report with details would be a welcome change :)
<d33tah> sarnold: it might me my first ubuntu bug. is there some tool that'd gather the usual info and add it as attachments?
<sarnold> d33tah: the ubuntu-bug command line tool can collect whatever's most useful for a given package
<d33tah> sarnold: danke!
<d33tah> sarnold: awesome, broken
<sarnold> d33tah: woot, you're on a roll :)
<sarnold> d33tah: can you file a bug for *that* one too? :) if ubuntu-bug ubuntu-bug doesn't work, you can file on the website and maybe try to use apport-collect after the fact to collect the logs and so on
<sarnold> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+filebug
<d33tah> sarnold: i'm afraid of filing a bug for my keyboard firmware in the laptop where i'm reporting a bug for my pc's kb not working ultimately
<d33tah> if you get the joke
<sarnold> I think so :)
<d33tah> yay, worked for the second time
<d33tah> sarnold: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1768128
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1768128 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Regression: monitor connected via motherboard GPU is not initialized, but one connected to Nvidia is" [Undecided,New]
<d33tah> good bug report?
<sarnold> d33tah: not bad, except for the 18.10 mention :D
<d33tah> if they don't fix that, it'll be true in six months
<sarnold> lol
<d33tah> sarnold: thanks, clarified
<sarnold> hrm some virtualbox stuff installed.. double-check that you don't have the virtualbox guest tools installed
<sarnold> d33tah: time for me to run, good luck :D
<d33tah> "dpkg -l | grep virtualbox | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs sudo apt remove"?
<sarnold> probably that's a bit drastic
<d33tah> thanks sarnold. have a good one!
<sarnold> just make sure the guest tools arent installed on real hardware :)
<d33tah> it's not drastic, it's missing -y
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I wonder if there's a way we can force gnome-initial-setup to be updated (assuming internet access) at the end of the install
<jbicha> otherwise your SRU won't do much good until 18.04.1 for the common single user use case
<robert_ancell> jbicha, does that not get covered by the "download updates" checkbox in the installer?
<jbicha> technically that checkbox doesn't install updates, only downloads them
<jbicha> that confused me for years and I'm sure it confuses a lot of other people
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-01
<robert_ancell> jbicha, oh, and just prompts you after you get into your desktop "updates are available" and they can then install automatically
<robert_ancell> install immediately I should have said
<jbicha> I'd like to propose that we add one more checkbox to actually install those updates since I think that's what a lot of people expect
<robert_ancell> Yeah, I expected that...
<jbicha> or just change the wording and do it
<robert_ancell> In this particular case, the bug is probably not a problem (it's only a crash on shutdown)
<jbicha> the counter-argument is that apparently it can make the install take a rather long time once a release has been out for several months
<robert_ancell> I don't know of any other package that gets updated on install, so it's probably a new feature that would need adding.
<robert_ancell> jbicha, "snap it" is probably the answer :)
<jbicha> new feature: which means it wouldn't happen until 18.04.1 anyway! :|
<robert_ancell> indeed
<robert_ancell> I think the .1 is release is where you'll get the majority of users, so it's not a big issue to wait.
<jbicha> robert_ancell: btw, we got approval for the chose fix, not sure how to handle that smoothly with translations
<jbicha> https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/102
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 102 in desktop-design "first-login: "location you choose" or "location you chose"" (comments: 2) [Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 102 could not be found
<jbicha> also https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/101
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 101 in desktop-design "First login: What's new: wording suggestions" (comments: 3) [Open] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 101 could not be found
<sarnold> ubot pls
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going OK... you?
<duflu> In Berlin?
<seb128> I'm good thanks, yes in Berlin
<duflu> ICE FTW
<seb128> indeed!
<seb128> travel was nice
<seb128> duflu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1768012 ... do you think it could be a kernel issue? it's Sergio who has the issue and the touch screen seem to work fine mostly, the bug seems rather in g-s touch events handling
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1768012 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Long pressing using a touch screen stays sticky" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<duflu> seb128, I will try some other touchscreens this week. But it is slightly suspicious to be running a custom "surface" kernel
<duflu> Guess the manufactureer
<duflu> -e
<willcooke> seb128, duflu re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1751252
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> So do we thinkthat's a glib bug?
<duflu> willcooke, No idea. The two crashes are seconds apart
<duflu> But always in order
<duflu> willcooke, actually in person you can see in advance it is going to crash. The installer splash is plain black
<duflu> It's not that we never tested bionic on the affected machines, only that the ubiquity regression occurred more recently
<duflu> Because it used to work
<duflu> Or glib regression
<seb128> duflu, can you reproduce on that machine? can you see if ubiquity hits an XError for you like on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1767720 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1767720 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashed during install of 18.04 with error 'BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)'" [Critical,Incomplete]
<duflu> seb128, I was going to try and fix the zoom issue first because I at least know that code (and the language). But yes I will check the ubiquity crash again now
<seb128> duflu, thanks
<duflu> seb128, yes. Bug 1751252 is also BadAccess with the same X error. It's highly unlikely they are different bugs
<ubot5> bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252
<seb128> duflu, good, do you think you are able to the bt with gtk/libx11 dbgsym installed?
<duflu> seb128, not sure. For starters X errors are always delayed. Will have to force it to synchronous mode and retry.
<seb128> duflu, right, see my comment on that bug
<seb128> duflu, but basically need to exportGDK_SYNCHRONIZE=1
<seb128> then gdb --args /usr/bin/python3 /usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity gtk_ui
<duflu> Interesting this is always on specific machines...
<duflu> seb128, also worth noting a bunch of manual bug reports to ubquitiy the past few days report "installer crashed" but we seem to not attach sufficient logs
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's always tricky
<duflu> Just the journal would help
<seb128> i/o errors on usb stick are also common
<seb128> like some of the snaps reports on e.u.c which are having a few hundred reports a week are squashfs read errors, which are likely corrupted image/read error from the device being used
<seb128> sometimes segfaults are also a side result of a corrupted image/faulty key
<duflu> seb128, I thought of that. The same key works on other machines even after failing on the unlucky one
<seb128> well if some people can reproduce on some configs there is probably something in the machine configuration that confuses ubiquity, e.g a real bug
<seb128> we just don't have enough info atm to be able to figure out what exactly that is
<seb128> maybe a sync/debug bt is going to tell us more
<seb128> duflu, hum, "log_domain=0x7f5a7365304e <_gdk_wayland_display_utf8_to_string_target+270>", why are we getting wayland mentioned there?
<duflu> Not sure. More comments in a minute
<duflu> seb128, OK, I have documented a workaround in the bug. Install complete
<duflu> No let's see if I can get a synchronous python stack too
<willcooke_> ahhhh, nicely deduced duflu
<seb128> duflu, good finding!
<seb128> there is webkit/cairo calls in that bt, I wonder if something in the slideshow is trying to display something too big for the video memory or something
<duflu> Or too small
<duflu> Still, if anyone knows how to debug ubiquity I think we now have a test case
<duflu> (set Scale to 200% before installing)
<seb128> well, it sounds like the issue there is webkitgtk
<seb128> or something the installer is doing with it
<seb128> duflu, well done figuring that out in any case
<seb128> duflu, do you know if there is a way to set the scaling factor from an environment variable or such?
<duflu> seb128, not sure. Probably better to rely on the config
<seb128> k
<duflu> seb128, GDK_SCALE={1,2}
<Laney> helo
<seb128> hey Laney, how is sunny u.k today?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> it's quite nice today
<Laney> except we're in the main office now
<Laney> how's the land of currywurst?
<seb128> nice and sunny
<seb128> but we are also lock inside
<seb128> at least not in a dungeon, pretty nice view on the outside
<seb128> bah, bug #1758120
<ubot5> bug 1758120 in gnome-split (Ubuntu) "package gnome-split 1.2-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite directory '/usr/share/pixmaps' in package gnome-search-tool 3.6.0-2 with nondirectory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758120
<seb128> having a /usr/share/pixmaps file in your deb isn't going to fly
<ahayzen> Hey, i had an issue where i login with user A, then logout and try to login with user B - it results in a purple display with the mouse (switching tty back to 1 then doing the login again works). I wanted to check if this story is covered by bug 1765261 and bug 1766137 or wht
<ubot5> bug 1765261 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu 18.04 login screen rejects a valid password on first attempt. Usually works on the second attempt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765261
<ahayzen> bah
<ubot5> bug 1766137 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Password accepted but login fails (blank purple screen and mouse pointer only)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766137
<ahayzen> *or whether i should report another bug
<ahayzen> as there were a few different user stories in those bugs
<seb128> Laney, do you know how I can set a DNS server from a rescue.target env?
<seb128> ahayzen, would be good to report a new bug upstream, they can dup if needed, but even if it's a dup it might help raise awareness
<Laney> seb128: resolv.conf doesn't work?
<seb128> Laney, can't edit in /etc
<Laney> ????
<ahayzen> seb128, ok thanks, is https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues "upstream" is this case? or is there another place for gdm issues ?
<Laney> that's a symlink to /run/something if you're using resolved
<seb128> Laney, saving the file fails with a "no such file or directory" for some reason?
<seb128> dnsmasq  --server fails as well due to missing /etc/resolv.conf
<Laney> is resolved actually running?
<Laney> systemctl start network-online.target usually gets me online
<seb128> it was not
<seb128> that did it
<seb128> thx
<duflu> seb128, I've verified the workaround works on two machines and attached a new stack with debug info. But I think I am about to give up for the day
<seb128> duflu, thx, it's good enough, we have a way to reproduce now so others can pick up
<lech1111[m]> Hi, anyone have idea how network-manager (with vpnc and network-manager-vpnc, and network-manager-vpnc-gnome) can connect to vpn using sms token?
<jbicha> seb128: kenvandine: meeting cancelled today?
<kenvandine> jbicha, oh sorry, yeah
<kenvandine> jbicha, seems half the team has national holidays today :)
<Laney> (also they've been slacking)
 * seb128 crack the whip toward Laney
<kenvandine> seb128, that reminded me of rick's whip cracking sound he used to make :)
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> oh the memories :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-02
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> jibel, can you see if you can recreate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1710637
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1710637 in systemd (Ubuntu Xenial) "Input falls through to gdm3 and terminates the session on Ctrl+C after udevadm trigger is executed under wayland" [Undecided,New]
<jibel> Hi willcooke
<jibel> willcooke, I'll have a look. On which release? xenial?
<jibel> good morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien. Trop de pluie ce w-e en Normandie donc je suis allÃ© chercher le soleil du cotÃ© de chez toi
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> jibel, tu Ã©tais oÃ¹?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN !
<jibel> oSoMoN, un peu plus au nord que toi Ã  Cadaques
<didrocks> et jibel
<jibel> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> câest joli CadaquÃ©s
<duflu> jibel, it's 18.04 (bug 1767918)
<ubot5> bug 1767918 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Login password is shown in plain text when shutting down " [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767918
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, willcooke, jibel didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Hi seb128, willcooke
<didrocks> hey seb128, willcooke
<duflu> Do you want to do bluetooth today? (and koza?)
<seb128> duflu, hey, I skip it's best to skip
<seb128> hey didrocks
<duflu> I also skip so
<seb128> +1
<duflu> Since cosmic is emerging we might have a 5.49 on the way next week...
<seb128> duflu, the ubiquity issue, I'm not sure it started with/is an ubiquity issue, e.u.c doesn't make it easy for us to know if those started after a gtk or webkitgtk update
<duflu> seb128, I know. I've been on it all day. Narrowing down to some failing access control code in the Xorg server (or maybe kernel)
<seb128> I saw your comments
<duflu> Interesting 17.10 does 200% scale fine. So that's not really new, just a trigger
<duflu> seb128, BTW I would love to bisect daily images. Do we keep the old ones anywhere?
<jibel> we don't
<duflu> I've asked this in the past
<duflu> :(
<jibel> We used to keep them. I'll do it for C
<jibel> just needs some disk space
<seb128> duflu, i'm a beta2 iso, I'm going to try on it
<seb128> I've*
<duflu> jibel, you're my hero
<seb128> duflu, did you try to make an easier "test case", like trying to display the slideshow in a standalone pywebkitgtk process? if not I'm going to try to play with that
<seb128> easier than having to go through the installer every time
<duflu> seb128, I looked and could not figure out how to run it locally
<jibel> duflu, there is a script called test-slideshow.sh to test the slideshow at its name suggests. I don't know if it would be enough to reporduce the bug
<jibel> it's in the source package
<jibel> hm, it uses zenity so probably not the right tool
<jibel> ah no, it may work zenity is only to select which flavor then it's a webkit view
<duflu> jibel, which source package? Not ubiquity
<duflu> Oh, maybe ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<seb128> yes
<duflu> I don't think that script is working right now
<seb128> no it's not
<Laney> moin
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> hey hey Laney
<seb128> duflu, I fixed that script but doesn't trigger the issue on a lowdpi machine with GDK_SCALE=2
<GunnarHj> Good morning, and a Happy New Cycle!
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<duflu> seb128, does it look different at all? I noticed that var didn't work when I tried it
<duflu> Happy New Cycle GunnarHj
<seb128> yes, it's much bigger
<seb128> new cycle? stop the crazy talk
<GunnarHj> ;)
<seb128> we have plenty of LTS work still to do :p
<duflu> seb128, for some years
<duflu> Hence the "LTS"
<seb128> right, but we should focus/be full time on that for a while
<seb128> before starting with new crazyness
<GunnarHj> seb128: Should we stop im-config from setting GTK_IM_MODULE on GNOME? Bug #1761554 and bug #1760818 speak for that. So does bug #1760308 even if another fix was applied for the latter.
<ubot5> bug 1761554 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "[bionic] Extended characters in GNOME screen keyboard don't get entered" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761554
<ubot5> bug 1760818 in mutter (Ubuntu) "gedit and gnome-calculator transparency/graphics corruption issue" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760818
<ubot5> bug 1760308 in ibus (Ubuntu Bionic) "Unicode input not working on Bionic with CTRL-SHIFT-U" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760308
<seb128> GunnarHj, I don't understand what's the difference between GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus and it unset
<seb128> so I can't comment until I understand what that means exactly
<duflu> seb128, try running the script with sudo
<GunnarHj> seb128: My understanding is that when it's unset, configuration happens dynamically by GNOME somehow. After all GNOME does not set it.
<seb128> well I would expect they do load some immodule though
<seb128> so it's not the ibus one they use
<seb128> if not which one?
<duflu> seb128, can you please share the script fix?
<seb128> duflu, yeah, I'm working on it, a min
<duflu> Or propose it :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: They set always "QT_IM_MODULE=ibus" and "XMODIFIERS=@im=ibus".
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks GunnarHj duflu
<Laney> doing alright here thanks
<Laney> finally going back home later
<duflu> Hi Laney
<duflu> seb128, btw I get the feeling the Xorg error happens server-side before the slide show starts. So maybe the test won't work
<GunnarHj> seb128: Probably "XMODIFIERS=@im=ibus" is sufficient in the GNOME environment to do the right thing for GTK apps.
<seb128> duflu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hb5fCCY9qb/ is my local tweaks
<seb128> GunnarHj, weird
<seb128> Laney, did you go back over the w.e or just stay in London?
<seb128> duflu, GDK_SCALE=2 sudo -E ./test-slideshow.sh works
<seb128> displays a scaled UI without XError
<seb128> but maybe GDK_SCALE is not enough for webkitgtk/not the right way
<seb128> would be interesting to know if that reproduce on your hidpi machine
<Laney> seb128: stayed here
<duflu> seb128, yeah the euid of the gtk_ui process changed between 17.10 and 18.04 and it looks like Xorg is manually checking that
<seb128> Laney, you didn't do any ubiquity test on your hidpi machine before release?
<seb128> duflu, ?
<Laney> I didn't do an install
<seb128> :/
<Laney> but I did run ubiquity some times
<Laney> probably not far enough?
<Laney> I also did do test-slideshow
<seb128> Laney, looks like the installer XError on hidpi machines in the slideshow
<seb128> that's the suck
<Laney> sounds bad
<seb128> can't believe we didn't do at least one test install on an hidpi machine :/
<duflu> seb128, we definitely did. Many times. Just on the wrong days
<duflu> With earlier images
<seb128> well, I wonder at which point it changes/started being buggy
<seb128> changed
<duflu> seb128, yeah that's why I would like to be able to bisect daily images, all 6 months worth
<seb128> could be the slideshow content change, or a gtk/webkit update or something else
<seb128> duflu, did you try my patch to the standalone slideshow test script?
<seb128> does it xerror for you?
<duflu> seb128, I will get to that. Still doing other tests
<seb128> k
<didrocks> jibel: so, if I do some changes to do-release-upgrade and want to test it before pushing to proposed, it sounds like there is no option to disable local download of the tarball of new upgrader and so it means commenting the call to fetchDistUpgrader() manually, do you know of any other tips?
<xnox> Laney, do you, per chance, have ubiquity changelog finalised & 18.04.14 tag committed locally and could you please bzr push? or shall I just tag and push?
<Laney> hey xnox
<Laney> probably, let me see
<Laney> there you go
<jibel> didrocks, let me check
<didrocks> jibel: I think I can just generate directly the "bionic" wrapper
<didrocks> which bypass the first stage (download/reexec)
<didrocks> meaning, just executing DistUpgrade.DistUpgradeMain.main() directly
<jibel> didrocks, yes you can do that
<didrocks> will do! Thanks for confirming jibel :)
<jibel> didrocks, for testing, I usually download the tarball and run the wrapper
<didrocks> yeah, but for iterating, if I can avoid downloading the tarball, applying the diff each time and suchâ¦
<seb128> duflu, I tried editing /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/fronted/gtk_ui.py and deleted the         "while(self.pagesindex < len(self.pages)):" section
<seb128> so ubiquity directly starts on the slideshow
<seb128> no xerror even with a scale of 2
<seb128> so I don't know if that works around it or just if I can't reproduce on a lowdpi config even enabling scaling
<jibel> duflu, I cannot reproduce bug 1767918. I see the console for a tenth of a second but not enough to see and read any password
<ubot5> bug 1767918 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Login password is shown in plain text when shutting down " [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767918
<duflu> jibel, no problem for now. Just keep it in mind. If one bionic hits that bug then others will follow I guess
<seb128> duflu, when you say that the uid of the process changed between 17.10 and 18.04, of what process is that? we shouldn't have an uid change between those...
<duflu> seb128, the python3 process ending in "gtk_ui". Seems to be dropping perms now, which I think is confusing Xorg
<seb128> ubiquity does some drop/restore privilege, the slideshow is in a drop privilege section but it has been since xenial
<seb128>     def start_slideshow(self):
<seb128>         # WebKit2 spawns a process which we don't want to run as root
<seb128>         misc.drop_privileges_save()
<seb128> in gtk_ui.py
<seb128> also if the issue was the uid why would it be only a problem when scaling?
<duflu> seb128, yeah that last part makes no sense
<duflu> Side-effects
<duflu> seb128, also scaling worked in 17.10
<Trevinho> Morning...
 * Trevinho back in the cold Europe 
<duflu> Morning Trevinho. Oh noes, the comedown begins
<duflu> Oh nose, even
<seb128> hey Trevinho, back to the old world?
<seb128> how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: hey seb... all good, you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> duflu, let me know if you have a chance to test if the standalone script or the gtk_ui.py hack to go directly to slideshow
<seb128> I would like to know if those don't hit the issue or if it's not as simple as enabling scaling
<duflu> seb128, about 2 seconds before you asked, I did. And it works thanks
<seb128> "works" as trigger the bug? which one(s)?
<duflu> seb128, no, no bug
<seb128> :(
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey! :-)
<seb128> duflu, did you also try to edit gtk_ui.py to delete the pages section so it directly goes to the slideshow?
<seb128> duflu, I wonder if something is happening async and taking more time when scalling and the callback by the time we are out of the drop_privilege section
<seb128> but it's weird
<duflu> seb128, that suggests sync at 100% might trigger it. I will try
<duflu> Then I will make dinner
<duflu> Also, more comments in the bug
<seb128> "sync at 100%"?
<seb128> thx
<duflu> seb128, Yes. You win. It crashes at scale 100% if you slow it down with GDK_SYNCHRONIZE=1
<duflu> So just a race
<seb128> ah
<seb128> did you try full install?
<seb128> or did you hack to skip the pages?
<duflu> seb128, that's a full install. I can reproduce the bug at low DPI using that
<duflu> Although "full install" failed
<duflu> So it sounds like a race between Xorg and the perms dropping
<duflu> which then breaks Xorg's ability to authenticate XShmAttach
<seb128> k, thanks
<duflu> seb128, I hope to see a fix tomorrow ;)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> let's see :p
<duflu> We all do
<duflu> Night...
<seb128> have a nice evening duflu
<seb128> thx for the ubiquity debugging
<duflu> (I will test a proper low DPI machine before tomorrow too)
<duflu> o/
<GunnarHj>  seb128: Found this:
<GunnarHj> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/260601/understanding-setting-up-different-input-methods
<GunnarHj> "If GTK_IM_MODULE is not set, GTK selects a built-in IM on the basis of configurations in /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules. GTK 3.0 looks in /usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache which is generated by gtk-query-immodules-3.0."
<GunnarHj> (the correct file paths seem to be /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules.cache and /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache)
<seb128> so ibus and autodetect should be equivalent?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Probably only in GNOME by default. For instance, I think we should keep setting GTK_IM_MODULE for other frameworks, and for other flavors.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, if GNOME ends up selecting ibus when that env is unset then I don't understand what is being fixed/acting differently and why
<GunnarHj> seb128: I mentioned a few bugs where it has proved to make a difference.
<seb128> right, but I don't understand *why*
<seb128> if we say GNOME is supposed to pick one and the one is "ibus"
<GunnarHj> seb128: Probably the one is not *always* ibus. As in bug #1761554 and bug #1760308.
<ubot5> bug 1761554 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "[bionic] Extended characters in GNOME screen keyboard don't get entered" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761554
<ubot5> bug 1760308 in ibus (Ubuntu Bionic) "Unicode input not working on Bionic with CTRL-SHIFT-U" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760308
<seb128> the upstream osk issue report that it should be "wayland" under wayland
<GunnarHj> seb128: True. And still it's sufficient if it's unset.
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> anyway lunch time, need to drop from IRC
<seb128> but I had that to my backlog for later
<seb128> that comes after that ubiquity issue though
<didrocks> enjoy your lunch seb128
<GunnarHj> Have a nice meal. Ok.
<seb128> didrocks, thx
<Saviq> seb128: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1390015
<ubot5-ng`> bugzilla.mozilla.org bug 1390015 in Folder and Message Lists "Large emojis displaying in message subject" [Normal, Resolved: Invalid] - Assigned to nobody
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1390015 in Folder and Message Lists "Large emojis displaying in message subject" [Normal,Resolved: invalid]
<ubot5> bug 1390015 in OpenLP "Service Item Notes on Stage view" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1390015
<seb128> Saviq, thx
<jbicha> Saviq: I think I heard the emoji issue is fixed in the latest Thunderbird Beta. I expect 18.04 to get Thunderbird 60 in several weeks
<Saviq> heh, the bug still claims it's a font issue, but ok ;)
<seb128> Saviq, could you try from https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/thunderbird-next ?
<Saviq> will do
<seb128> Saviq, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/1759286
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1761844 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1759286 Thunderbird: emojis is displayed in the email list" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> can use that if you need a launchpad bug to follow/comment on
<Saviq> yeah emojis are fine there, calendar extension incompatible though
<seb128> good, at least it means they fixed that one
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I thought we were talking about g-i-s. Is it a Ubiquity string?
<jbicha> (for context, this is https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/102 )
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 102 in desktop-design "first-login: "location you choose" or "location you chose"" (comments: 6) [Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 102 could not be found
<jbicha> we are talking about gnome-initial-setup
<jbicha> for the common usecase of single user install done from a clean install, I am thinking there will be a mismatch between the language pack and gnome-initial-setup
<jbicha> which language pack does ubiquity install if there is network access? the one from the ISO or the latest one available?
<jbicha> btw, I think it would be nice if ubiquity would at least upgrade gnome-initial-setup at tne end of the install so that SRUs for gnome-initial-setup make more sense
<seb128> why does it matter?
<jbicha> but we're stuck until at least 18.04.1 now
<seb128> it does it you click "install updates during installation" which is default
<seb128> also it covers people upgrading
<jbicha> seb128: the ubiquity option is "download updates during installation" not "install" (!)
<jbicha> I was confused by that for years and I think a lot of people are confused by that
<seb128> when are they installed?
<jbicha> after the user reboots and logs in, update-manager pops up and asks the user to install updates
<seb128> k, well upgraders still get the SRU
<ahayzen> Hi, does anyone know if there is a reason why autopkgtest's don't run for gnome-software, gnome-software-plugin-{flatpak,snap} ? http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/testlist#index-g And is my understanding right that a regression in snap/flatpak that causes a test failure in gnome-software-plugin-{flatpak,snap} would be picked up by autopkgtest and prevent the update from going into the archive? (if it was configured correctly)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I thought otherwise too, and get surprised each time. :(
<seb128> ahayzen, Laney might be able to help you with that
<jbicha> I'd really like to either 1) have an additional checkbox to install updates too (instead of just downloading) or 2) change the existing option to install instead of download
<ahayzen> seb128, ok :-)
<jbicha> the downside is that it's my understanding that it would make the install take much longer once a release has been out for several months
<seb128> ahayzen, looks like gnome-software has no debian/tests / autopkgtest?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: But in that case, isn't the conclusion that the string will be translated for first runners until the first langpack update has happened?
<seb128> jbicha, or change the wording to be more explicit about what the option does
<seb128> but that's sidetracking
<seb128> what was the real topic?
<seb128> what string?
<jbicha> seb128: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/102
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 102 in desktop-design "first-login: "location you choose" or "location you chose"" (comments: 6) [Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 102 could not be found
<ahayzen> seb128, so it might just simply be missing the debian packaging to do so. I know they run tests in CI on gitlab, i was wondering how i could get autopkgtests running :-)
<seb128> jbicha, GunnarHj, no string change in a SRU unless really needed, seems that's one of those cases
<jbicha> my suggestion is to keep the old string, add the new string and copy the translations for the old string to the new string so that translations should work now and with the next langpack update
<seb128> why do we need to fiddle with strings?
<seb128> it's not a critical thing to change wording
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: I'm assuming that we will do a full langpack update before 18.04.1, and install all the languages irrespective of whether they have been tested or not. That's what happened before 16.04.1, and according to Martin it was kind of practice. (With that said, I wouldn't encourage unnecessary string SRUs...)
<jbicha> grumble grumble, I really tried getting this done before the release :(
<seb128> why does it matter?
<seb128> you still reply to that
<seb128> it's just wording of a random string
<seb128> +didn't
<jbicha> it's poor grammar in English and makes Ubuntu look just a bit less professional
<jbicha> I understand if we think the change is too risky
<jbicha> I think it might be workable so that's why I made the suggestions
<ogra_> jbicha, just blame the french ;)
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: The langpack update before 18.04.1 will make a big difference for g-i-s (you know why), so in the light of that a string change may be a minor thing. It won't be really good until 18.04.1 anyway.
<GunnarHj> For example, those intro pages are currently untranslated in Chinese and German (fixed in LP now, but no new langpacks).
<seb128> we could go back to not strip translations for it
<seb128> unless until .1
<seb128> at least until*
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, that would both help some languages and make it possible to fix that string without a long interruption.
<seb128> there are other strings changes we need to do
<GunnarHj> seb128: In g-i-s? Trying to recall who said "why do we need to fiddle with strings". :)
<seb128> :p
<seb128> well, we have strings that have wrong content, not only imperfect english
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sounds like disabling the lang stripping before 18.04.1 is well motivated then. (+ communication on ubuntu-translators)
<seb128> right, I need to look at that
<GunnarHj> seb128: Second thought... We are talking about almost only Ubuntu specific strings, right? Would those language exports be done as patches then?
<seb128> yes
<GunnarHj> Is it worth it? Or better wait for translations to be ok in 18.04.1?
<Laney> ahayzen: It doesn't define any tests.
<ahayzen> Laney, ok, so i should look at contributing some, I'll have a read of the docs :-)
<Laney> ahayzen: It has an upstream testsuite; might be good to look at running that if you can convince it to run against an installed gnome-software rather than the in-tree one.
<Laney> Like we do for GLib & other things.
<Laney> gnome's "installed-tests" stuff
<ahayzen> Laney, ok thanks, i'll see if i can figure anything out :-)
<juliank> I'd like to rename software-properties from "software & updates" to "software sources", matching the kde dekstop file. It's super confusing now that it's not in a settings menu anymore.
<GunnarHj> juliank: I hope you are talking about some future relase and not 18.04.
<juliank> 18.10 of course
<GunnarHj> Puh. ;)
<jbicha> juliank: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareAndUpdatesSettings and talk to m_pt if you have suggested changes
<jbicha> juliank: it looks like the newest version there is named "Legacy Software Settings" :|
<jbicha> oh that new name is for a "Snap-based system"
<seb128> juliank, that's confusing, that Ui also does drivers and livepatch
<jbicha> I look at the picture before I read the text :)
<juliank> seb128: software & updates is not better, though
<juliank> Software settings maybe
<jbicha> with GNOME's ellipses in the Activities Overview, we've got  Software Updâ¦   and   Software & Upâ¦
<juliank> yes
<jbicha> ð¢
<juliank> i just saw the complaint on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8gbfjw/i_dont_always_use_the_gui_software_center_but/dyalakh/) and figured we could fix it
 * juliank goes back to writing britney tests
<seb128> jbicha, duflu/upstream have a fix for that
<seb128> juliank, that's worth considering
<seb128> juliank, we also want to try to move some of the things under settings, or it might make sense to split "Drivers", unsure why it has been added there
<juliank> true
<tseliot> seb128: hey, any chance this can be merged and uploaded? LP: #1753333
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1753333 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Using "Software and Updates -> Additional Drivers" to Switch Fails" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1753333
<seb128> tseliot, you don't have upload rights?
<seb128> tseliot, I'm at a sprint/don't really have time for that today/this week, maybe cyphermox or didrocks can help you to get that uploaded?
<tseliot> seb128: I do, but doesn't that require dealing with CI?
<seb128> what CI?
<seb128> just merge & dput imho
<seb128> there is no specific process/CI for software-properties
<tseliot> seb128: ok, then I probably confused it with another package. I can do that myself, then
<seb128> right
<seb128> jbicha, k, you win, I'm going with some strings changes needed for g-i-s and tweak the template in advance. Can you open a launchpad bug if we don't have one yet for https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/102 and add a code diff?
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 102 in desktop-design "first-login: "location you choose" or "location you chose"" (comments: 6) [Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 102 could not be found
<tseliot> seb128: BTW, shall I upload to canimal first?
<didrocks> tseliot: looking good to me, let me just do a quick testbuild before uploading
<seb128> tseliot, that's a question for the SRU team, historically they copied things over when it was that early
<tseliot> didrocks: sure, thanks. BTW I merged the commit, and added a changelog entry. I haven't uploaded yet though
<didrocks> for my current pending SRUs, I only uploaded to bionic
<tseliot> seb128, didrocks: ok, good
<didrocks> tseliot: yeah, saw that, the bug is fine, there is just a small nitpick in the syntax, changing this
<didrocks> (in the generator, missing space before ])
<tseliot> didrocks: oh, I missed that one
<didrocks> tseliot: always easier when someone else reread ;)
<tseliot> true
<tseliot> didrocks: are you going to push a commit for that, or shall I?
<didrocks> tseliot: I'm pushing it as I do the release commit as well
<tseliot> didrocks: great, thanks!
<didrocks> no need to add extra step for this small fux
<didrocks> fix*
<didrocks> yw!
<didrocks> ok, building fine, tests pass, sponsoring
<didrocks> (done)
<seb128> thx didrocks
<didrocks> nw seb128!
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<Oooohboy> hello all, I'm attempting to use systemd user service files to mount a drive on startup. My issue is that mount wants root permissions. Is there any way to elevate permissions for user services?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, how do you subscribe to MPs on GNOME gitlab?
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, not sure actually
<robert_ancell> I wonder if it uses the DOAP file to pull out the maintainers?
<robert_ancell> But that can't work for private stuff, surely
<robert_ancell> I'm trying to work out why I'm not notified by https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-initial-setup/merge_requests/1
<ubot5-ng`> Ubuntu bug (Merge request) 1 in gnome-initial-setup "Ensure stamp file if the user quit the wizard" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> there's a notifications setting on the main project page
<kenvandine> defaults to "Global"
<robert_ancell> oh, now I see it
<kenvandine> robert_ancell is there another branch that has individual commits?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, no
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, I uploaded a new gnome-initial-setup to bionic/cosmic UNAPPROVED earlier today (just updates the what's new graphic)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, cool. Can you do a MP to  https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-initial-setup with the change?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: um, I only changed debian/ and there isn't a debian/ there
<robert_ancell> jbicha, that's only in there because debian doesn't support binary patches >:(
<robert_ancell> it's in the source as gnome-initial-setup/pages/ubuntu-changes/ubuntu-changes.png
<jbicha> it can do it if you list the patch file name in debian/source/include-binaries
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, did you come up with a way to handle translations of the page?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, not yet
<jbicha> robert_ancell: maybe I should just push directly if you want me to rebase your single "Ubuntu mode" commit?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I'm fine with you pushing directly
<jbicha> force-pushed but now Andrea's merge request will need to be rebased
<seb128> jbicha, robert_ancell, that's not right, andyrock's change have been submitted a while ago and I made him rebase today
<seb128> you can't just come and do our stuff and ask people to keep rebasing their changes while they don't get reviewed
<seb128> should be somewhat fifo
<seb128> also now is not time to do new release changes, SRU coming first
<robert_ancell> seb128, I rebased andyrocks changes - it's fine
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, k, I just read your comment on the mp, what it solves is that using the shell panel-menu to exit should not lead to the wizard to come again on next login
<seb128> users who do that just want to not be bothered
<robert_ancell> seb128, the AppMenu?
<seb128> yes
<robert_ancell> ah, bug 1766685
<ubot5> bug 1766685 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Gnome-initial-setup is shown on next login if appmenu is used to quit it." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766685
<seb128> yes
<robert_ancell> andyrock, are you online?
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-03
<andyrock> robert_ancell: yep
<robert_ancell> andyrock, was just checking your gnome-initial-setup MP (I wasn't subscribed so I hadn't seen it). Do you agree?
<andyrock> robert_ancell: seb answered before
<andyrock> robert_ancell: upstream does not want this, by design they want "quit" to show the wizard again
<andyrock> robert_ancell: we can avoid creating the stamp file in other places
<andyrock> robert_ancell: but is it worth doing that?
<andyrock> robert_ancell: so I'll ask again upstream tomorrow but I can already guess the answer
<robert_ancell> andyrock, I think if we drop the desktop check the patch will be smaller which is good if upstream doesn't want that.
<robert_ancell> there's no penalty to writing them twice that I can see
<andyrock> robert_ancell: not sure I'm getting what you're asking me to do :)
<robert_ancell> andyrock, I mean, why have the is_desktop ("ubuntu") part?
<robert_ancell> Just always write the files on shutdown
<robert_ancell> Then this change can be carried separate to our changes
<robert_ancell> our pages I mean
<andyrock> mmm are we using  the same gnome-initial-setup  for other desktops too in ubuntu?
<andyrock> robert_ancell: I can do that. Tomorrow morning
<jbicha> vanilla GNOME is the only other desktop that uses it
<andyrock> jbicha: same package?
<jbicha> Budgie has its own welcome app and it would need some work to be usable in Unity
<jbicha> yes, same package. It shows different pages in vanilla GNOME
<andyrock> robert_ancell: that's why I used the is_desktop
<jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 included gnome-initial-setup by default
<andyrock> to not change the beavhior in other desktops
<robert_ancell> andyrock, sure, I just feel like this is more of a "we consider users who cancel the dialog to have completed it" rather than "this is specific to the Ubuntu desktop welcome"
<robert_ancell> And that leaves us with a smaller patch to carry.
<andyrock> jbicha: what do you think?
<andyrock> I don't have a strong opinion on this
<jbicha> it doesn't matter to me
<andyrock> jbicha: kk thanks
<andyrock> robert_ancell: ok I'll drop the is_desktop
<robert_ancell> andyrock, thanks
<andyrock> let me try to do that now
<robert_ancell> I think this patch has highlighted how annoying the Appmenu is :)
<robert_ancell> Or is it the dock that people use to close it?
<robert_ancell> yeah, you can do it from both..
<andyrock> I didn't test the dock
<andyrock> but it should work
<andyrock> robert_ancell: I pushed it as a separate commit
<andyrock> if you want I can rebase the all thing
<robert_ancell> andyrock, thanks!
<andyrock> also I didn't build it (I'm on xenial with ubiquity running on a vm and I cannot restart)
<andyrock> but the change was trivial enough
<robert_ancell> andyrock, It looked fine to me, we can always fix it if not
<HEX0> hello
<duflu> Morgen thumper
<thumper> hey
<thumper> I forgot I had irc open
<duflu> biab
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> good morning seb128!
<seb128> hey didrocks
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> oui, et vous?
<seb128> nickel
<oSoMoN> tout se passe bien Ã  Berlin?
<seb128> oui, notre review est faite, pas de surprise
<oSoMoN> tant mieux
<c-lobrano> good morning to all :)
<didrocks> hey c-lobrano!
<c-lobrano> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> good good, yourself? :)
<c-lobrano> I doing good :)
<c-lobrano> *I'm
<duflu> Morning seb128, didrocks, oSoMoN, c-lobrano
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<duflu> seb128, going well. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the bionic bug rush is over (or not started?)
<duflu> Wie gehts Berlin, seb128?
<seb128> sehr gut
<seb128> quiet time until we enable upgrades for 16.04 users at .1? :)
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> ah, of course
<Nafallo> morning
<didrocks> hey Nafallo
<duflu> Hi Nafallo
<seb128> duflu, did you made any progress on the ubiquity issue?
<duflu> seb128, not yet. I'm reviewing and retesting yesterday's theories. Might have got it backwards but on the right track
<seb128> backwards with uids?
<seb128> I asked andyrock if he could help yesterday afternoon but I'm unsure if he was able to reproduce/figured out anything
<duflu> seb128, yes, when the installer is working ps shows its uid is root. When it's not working, it's dropped to 'ubuntu'
<duflu> But that may be an incorrect observation, which is why I am checking again
<jibel> duflu, are you running the installer always from the live session?
<duflu> jibel, yes. I like to wipe the partition table manually first
<duflu> ALthough that may be correlation, not causation
<duflu> Yeah. Seems to be correlated. The problem occurs around the point where the installer switches from uid 999 to 0
<duflu> And verified again also that it's not the scale, but timing
<duflu> Which would also explain why some reports of similar crashes appear in 16.04
<duflu> Maybe
<jibel> we had this bug several years ago and completely disabled the slideshow but I cannot find the bug #
<duflu> Oh! Cairo uses that call in 3 places. And only this one place fails to sync and handle X errors.
<duflu> seb128, I think I might have a fix today...
<seb128> nice
<seb128> by making that 3rd call use the same error handling that the other 2?
<duflu> seb128, yes. The caller already has a fallback. So then it should fall back and keep working
<duflu> We shouldn't need to fix the race, only handle it
<seb128> great
<Laney> moin
<Laney> something weird happened to my router
<Laney> but internets is happening now
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> back from London?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> and it is sunny!
<Laney> what's up in berlin?
<seb128> nice!
<seb128> currywurst!
<seb128> week is going well, no surprise so far
<Laney> good
<seb128> Trevinho, good morning?
<Trevinho> seb128: hey seb... Yeah, good morning to you and rest of the team too
<seb128> oh, Marco is there :)
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<Laney> wb to the proper side of the ocean
<didrocks> and Laney!
<Trevinho> thanks Laney
<Trevinho> and hi didrocks
<Laney> what up didrocks
<didrocks> nothing special, swapping with my vms ;)
<didrocks> you?
<Laney> enjoying being home
<Laney> going to fish that old inspiron out to see if that gdm bug happens
<seb128> I wanted to ask Trevinho if he can have a look tomorrow but he was not around
<Laney> that sentence feels time travelly
<seb128> now unsure who wants to own/poke at it, either of you guy would do
<Laney> yesterday tomorrow was today but now tomorrow is tomorrow
<seb128> doh
<Trevinho> ahah
<seb128> yesterday :p
<seb128> I'm tired :p
<Laney> well I said I'd get some more logs
<Laney> not sure if that is owning
<Trevinho> seb128: which one? I didn't see mentions
<seb128> Trevinho, can you look if you can reproduce https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227 & help upstream to fix it if that's the case?
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 16) [Opened]
<Laney> anyone know anything about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/1767703 too?
<Laney> it is collecting a lot of dupes
<Laney> some problem installing grub-efi
<seb128> urg
<Trevinho> indeed you did... fkng IRC client. I got no notifications on queries
<seb128> Laney, let me escalade to our foundations friends
<Laney> jibel: ^- maybe you know something about that one?
<Laney> like if foundations know :P
<Laney> thx
<didrocks> looks like people like the communitheme snap CI integration with per-PR branches: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-participation-an-ubuntu-default-theme-lead-by-the-community/1545/986 and https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-participation-an-ubuntu-default-theme-lead-by-the-community/1545/987 :)
<seb128> :)
<seb128> Laney, seems like it could be the same as bug #1766945
<seb128> raised with Patricia/Steve now
<Laney> cheers!
<seb128> thank you for mentioning it
<Laney> would be good to have a way to update the installer without needing a new iso
<Laney> to be able to fix this kind of thing before the point release
<didrocks> +1
<didrocks> even just for developmentâ¦
<didrocks> (especially in ubiquity-dm mode)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> though we might need a new libcairo for the hidpi/xerror bug
<seb128> but yeah, having the installer auto-updating upfront would be nice
<Laney> omfg
<Laney> the inspiron has decided that its battery is fake
<Laney> and it tells me this by making a deafening noise
<willcooke> andyrock, where should I log a bug for the software and updates livepatch UI?  When the g-o-a u1 account expires it shows livepatch as not being enabled
<jibel> Laney, this is a dupe of bug 1766945
<willcooke> Trevinho, I'm suddenly seeing a lot of "I can see the desktop when I resume from suspend" bugs, anything I can do while its doing this to help debug?
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh, are we again on that? :)
<willcooke> :))))
<Laney> jibel: ok, that's the same one seb pointed to
<jibel> Laney, it's mainly because they removed the warning saying that installing a EFI system without an EIF system partition will fail.
<Trevinho> mh... I think we should try to do the same we were doing in unity... andyrock also has a good background on that
<Trevinho> so basically painting  a dark frame before giving the ok to suspend
<Trevinho> need to see how we can do that in a nice way though
<jibel> Laney, and for reference due to fixing bug 1668148
<willcooke> Ahh, I wonder if me install the gs connect shell extension has made this worse.
<jibel> where is the bot?
<Trevinho> willcooke: can you please add a card / bug on that?
<willcooke> e,g https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/G5P4JFG8S9/
<willcooke> Trevinho, sure thing
<seb128> willcooke, so basically it's your fault :p
<willcooke> yeah pretty much
<willcooke> makes a change, right?
<willcooke> lemme disable it and see what happens.
<seb128> :)
<Trevinho> Laney: as per https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227 when attaching such logs also do a `call gjs_dumpstack()`
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 16) [Opened]
<Trevinho> Laney: see what I've added to https://is.gd/wiki_gnome_shell_crash_debug
<Laney> Trevinho: I did, see the top of the log
<Laney> jibel: ok, sounds like this error was unexpected tho
<Laney> good that they're going to look into it
<Trevinho> Laney: also those Apr 23 15:45:26 adam-thinkpad-t430 gnome-shell[5986]: g_dbus_connection_signal_unsubscribe: assertion 'G_IS_DBUS_CONNECTION (connection)' failed seem like it's the cause of one of the bigger crasher we have
<seb128> willcooke, there is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=753678
<ubot5-ng`> bugzilla.gnome.org bug 753678 in lock-screen "Desktop temporarily visible after wake up from suspend" [Normal, Assigned] - Assigned to gnome-shell-maint
<seb128> but that's not specific to the case where you disable autolock
<seb128> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1532508
<seb128> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1741248 was about gnome-shell
<seb128> but duflu duplicated it from the unity one
<seb128> I think we should undup
<seb128> less confusing
<didrocks> those kinds of bug will never disappearâ¦
<willcooke> Ok, I've logged a new bug since my test cases are very specific:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1768786
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ can you look at that one once you are done with 227?
<seb128> or maybe andyrock?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, sure
<seb128> thx
 * Trevinho adds cards or his mind won't work
<willcooke> Trevinho, are you adding them to the 18.04 board for now?  I'll get a new one set up next week if we can last without it for that long
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, we can move them once we've a new one
<willcooke> kk
<Trevinho> willcooke: although not sure we can continue using that for 18.04.x's?
<seb128> we have a .1 column, stack here for the moment
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, i see it... However I'd prefer to have that most on the right as it feels more natural now to move things from left to right when they proceed
<seb128> Trevinho, right, we do that in the new board next week
<seb128> Trevinho, I assigned the bug from will to you, but feel free to trade with andy if he wants to take it, please reassign if needed
<didrocks> \o/ and I screwed the *last* step of ubuntu-release-upgrader!
<didrocks> glad to have tested it :p
<seb128> wth communitheme? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/368384621/Zrzut%20ekranu%20z%202018-05-03%2009-21-19.png
<didrocks> now fix -> rebuild -> redo a release upgrade
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> seb128: told you it's not yet fully ready :p
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> the list of channels
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> well, as told, there is a channel for each PR
<didrocks> (see my blog posts and the posts I've sent above)
<didrocks> they autoclose in 30 days, it's not configurable
<seb128> is that a bug in g-s that they are all named the same?
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> and there aren't as much
<andyrock> willcooke: why the goa account expires? mmm
<dxvxb> i am trying to open geogebra in 18.04LTS. it isn't working. program closes after welcome screen...
<didrocks> hum, I wonder how I can get the list from snapcraftâ¦
<didrocks> when I release something, I get it
<didrocks> but without releasingâ¦
<andyrock> willcooke: target gnome-online-accounts and whatever software you used to enable it
<didrocks> ah statusâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: here is the real list: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/s5sQQ8nKVT/
<andyrock> seb128, Trevinho iirc they are already showing a black frame before suspend
<didrocks> you can notice snapcraft double them though :/ all and amd64
<seb128> didrocks, what option to dump the list?
<andyrock> seb128: Trevinho it can be the kernel/intel bug we had in unity as well
<didrocks> seb128: well, you need to be the snap author and use snapcraft status <snap name>
<seb128> andyrock, not when privacy->lock is disabled apparently
<seb128> the lock on idle
<seb128> didrocks, ah ok
<didrocks> only "collaborators/developers/who knows" can
<andyrock> seb128: I'll givet it a look
<seb128> andyrock, thx
<andyrock> i was checking the permission thing in ubiquity
<didrocks> so yeah, bug in G-S
<didrocks> or snapd
<seb128> andyrock, duflu made progress/has an idea about a cairo fix
<andyrock> mmm i found a problem when we deal with permissions
<Trevinho> andyrock: I meant the thing we did painting a GL frame, more than highlevel thing
<Trevinho> there's a thing from Jonas though on that bug that might help
<andyrock> Trevinho: I copied the idea from them :D
<Trevinho> I didn't check it yet
<seb128> didrocks, thx, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1768779 is the bug, can you maybe put your pastebin list on it for Robert?
<didrocks> seb128: doing
<seb128> thx
<seb128> andyrock, oh, can you give details?
<andyrock> so before we call misc.drop_privileges_save() we have: uid=0 and euid=999
<andyrock> after we have uid=999 and euid=999
<andyrock> after we call misc.regain_..._save() we have uid=999 and euid=999
<andyrock> the all point of those functions is to restore the previous beavhior
<andyrock> I'm checking what happens in 17.19
<andyrock> 17.10
<seb128> k, thx
<seb128> that sounds weird that it fails to restore
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I only reproduced repeated key in Xorg but using a VMâ¦ I'm not sure if the issue is clearly native though or just related to using the vm (and so, maybe qemu repeating the keyâ¦)
<seb128> ah, good to know
<seb128> I didn't see it mentioned by users/bugs reports yet
<seb128> so doesn't seem to hit/annoy lot of users atm
<didrocks> yeah, maybe it's only VM related, and so, unrelated
<didrocks> yep
<andyrock> didrocks: repeated key a broken in mutter/gnome-shell even without vm
<didrocks> andyrock: Xorg?
<seb128> andyrock, under xorg?
<andyrock> didrocks: xorg for sure
<seb128> :/
<didrocks> ahâ¦ so a real one
<andyrock> but when I tested on wayland is not better
<didrocks> yeah, we started seeing it on wayland here
<andyrock> I started to take a look before we started the work on gnome-initial-setup
<didrocks> was better in Xorgâ¦ but hemf :/
<andyrock> didrocks: just keep f11 pressed while firefox is focused
<andyrock> save your session before ;)
 * didrocks isn't going to do it then :p
<andyrock> in compiz we had a way to specify for a keybinding if autorepeat should work or not
<andyrock> with f11 it shouldn't
<andyrock> with alt+tab it should
<andyrock> there is not such a thing in mutter
<willcooke> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-online-accounts/+bug/1768797
<willcooke> andyrock, dont look at that now though :)
<duflu> seb128, yes my cairo patch fixes the installer crash. I half expect upstream to not like it because of the performance implications. Although they already have a bug open for the same line of code, for similar reasons
<seb128> duflu, nice, let's see what they say
<seb128> we shouldn't hit that codepath in "normal use" right?
<seb128> the xerror is hit only because ubiquity is doing weird uid handling?
<duflu> seb128, it is a "normal" code path, but only "normal" for setup logic. Not central to animation performance
<andyrock> willcooke: I've a weird way to check if the credentials are still valid, it can be this the reason why it fails
<andyrock> I'll take a look later
<andyrock> seb128: ubiquity runs with uid=0 and euid=0 in 17.10
<andyrock> when drop_privileges_save the uid and euid stay the same
<seb128> what part/at what time?
<andyrock> seb128: in 17.10 from the start
<andyrock> you can notice just using ps
<seb128> well that's right/supposed to be the same in 18.04
<andyrock> nope in 18.04 is runs as 999
<andyrock> at least the euid
<andyrock> let me check the last commits
<seb128> well, ubiquity does those drop/restore dances
<andyrock> that don't work as they should :D
<seb128> but the .desktop still do sudo ...
<willcooke> LUNCH!
<duflu> andyrock, you are now assigned part of bug 1751252 :)
<duflu> seb128, here's a fix: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98883#c6 I think I'm done for today
<ubot5-ng`> bugs.freedesktop.org bug 98883 in xlib backend "BadAccess errors in ShmAttach due to thread races with XNextRequest() usage in cairo-xlib-surface-shm.c" [Normal, New] - Assigned to chris
<duflu> andyrock, if you have a fix for ubiquity too, please add it to bug 1751252. I'm heading off...
<Laney> Trevinho: this has to be some refcounting thing
<Trevinho> Laney: which one? The signal unsubscribe?
<Laney> not sure where, these things are the worst
<Laney> that's probably just the one that gets unlucky and makes the thing actually be disposed
<seb128> side effect of the gjs leak fix?
<didrocks> dist-upgrading, and was almost done in the VM from 17.10 -> session closed, no crash file :/
<seb128> journal error?
<didrocks> nothing either
<didrocks> apart from the session closing part
<didrocks> I didn't get that starting in the exact same stateâ¦
<seb128> :/
<didrocks> (and it went further down, as I got the issue on saving the upgade telemetry file)
<didrocks> I guess that's another try now, reverting to the snapshot
<Trevinho> seb128: not sure if that... But indeed it's the garbage colector. However I don't like how it works the glib side of things either, so I was looking into it
<andyrock> seb128: so the crash has been introduce by https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/commit/?h=bionic&id=dcb538ded2159439e3d9c4c988a6d9d2c4138622
<andyrock> seb128: the commit is correct, but it's triggering the crash
<seb128> ahah
<seb128> Laaaaannnnneeeyyy
<andyrock> it's not Laney's fault
<andyrock> :D
<Laney> what
<didrocks> redoing an upgrade test. It seems the issue is with screen lockingâ¦
<didrocks> at least, want to confirm telemetry first before even starting debugging thisâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, what are you debugging/fixing?
<andyrock> Laney: so without that commit drop_privileges_* does not work and this does not trigger the crash
<andyrock> but having drop_privileges_* not working is not a good idea
<Laney> the same one duflu fixed?
<andyrock> but at least we know why it started happening
<seb128> yes
<Laney> ok...
<seb128> duflu is not sure his fix is not going to have a performances impact
<seb128> so we are waiting to hear from upstream before considering it as the way to go
<seb128> but yeah, those permissions issues in ubiquity are really annoying :/
<seb128> we need to make it an user app with proper backend/polkit use
<didrocks> seb128: I'm adding upgrading logs to our telemetry
<seb128> not going to be for .1 though
<Laney> yes that's well known
<Laney> but unless some people get assigned to do this work it's not going to happen
<seb128> right
<didrocks> yeah, we need to have an UI piloting a separate backend with clear communication and permissions between those 2
<didrocks> however, I'm afraid that's almost a rewriteâ¦
<seb128> we raised up that installer needs more resources
<seb128> ideally some extra headcount is needed for installer, n-m, etc
<seb128> let's see if we get anything
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> Laney, I've no idea what your backlog looks like atm, do you think you have space to look at bug #1768541? unsure how important that problem is, we got a few reports, would be nice to at least have someone trying to understand what's going on to see if that needs to be fixed or is low importance
<ubot5> bug 1768541 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "package libp11-kit-gnome-keyring 3.20.1-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: libp11-kit-gnome-keyring:all 3.28.0.2-1ubuntu1 (Multi-Arch: no) is not co-installable with libp11-kit-gnome-keyring which has multiple installed instances" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768541
<seb128> andyrock, so does it mean on 17.10 the webkit code is used as root?
<andyrock> seb128: that's what I was thinking
<andyrock> it should not work as root but it does
<seb128> k, well at least it explains why it started recently
<Laney> Can do later.
<seb128> at least things make sense
<seb128> Laney, thx!
<Laney> andyrock: Try moving the widget creation to the constructor or something that is not running as root
<seb128> andyrock, k, thanks for poking/figuring that out. Feel free to move back to the other things you were worked on, if cairo's upstream is happy with duflu's patch we should be set
<Laney> Save it in the class and fetch it out when you need it later
<andyrock> Laney: thanks.. I'll try to do that
<seb128> maybe try what Laney suggests
<andyrock> seb128: let me spend some more time
<andyrock> on this :D
<seb128> kk
<andyrock> seb128: confirmed that the webkit process runs as root in 17.10
<andyrock> the two processes
<seb128> k
<seb128> well that explains then
<seb128> I'm not sure to understand why we hit the access Xerror when being "ubuntu"
<seb128> I would have expeted to be the other way around
<andyrock> seb128: I guess it's the change of [e]uids
<andyrock> that confuses X
<andyrock> in 17.10 they don't change
<andyrock> in 18.04 they change and the change confuses X
<seb128> hum, k
<didrocks> phew, first successfull dist-upgrade with do-release-upgrade done
<didrocks> same, it's a pain to test without publishing a versionâ¦
<didrocks> now, seems harder to test the gtk version
<didrocks> I think I'll as it needs to sudo <app> with my download bypass switch to a Xorg session
<didrocks> (on 17.10)
<seb128> didrocks, what sort of metrics do we add to the upgrader?
<didrocks> seb128: which version we upgrade From, and the various step + time they take
<seb128> k, nice
<didrocks> seb128: I'm powndering adding the "flavor" of do-release-upgrade which was used
<didrocks> it's not included right now
<didrocks> (cli, gtk, kdeâ¦)
<seb128> ah, interesting one
<didrocks> do you think that worths inclusion? Shouldn't be hard
<seb128> yes, it's interesting to know if users update from the gui or cli
<didrocks> ok, let me add it, and then, redoing some tests
<didrocks> I wonder how you trigger the non interactive one though
<didrocks> the 3 others (text, gtk, kde) makes senseâ¦
<didrocks> I'll have a look at how to try this
<didrocks> also --help isn't in sync, I should update it while I'm at it
<didrocks> unrelated but bug #1738870 is raised on d-d-l
<ubot5> bug 1738870 in Launchpad itself "GNOME Bug Tracker link is incorrect" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738870
 * mgedmin twice had the gui upgrader crash in the middle and no longer trusts it
<jibel> mgedmin, did you send bug reports?
<mgedmin> I did
<jibel> mgedmin, do you have bug numbers?
<mgedmin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1573558
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1573558 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade window freezes when I press Ctrl+Shift+I" [Medium,New]
<jibel> inspecting the upgrader while it's upgrading is not the typical use case but still.
<seb128> didrocks, who raised it? I'm not subscribed and there are quite some replies on that discussion, I'm too lazy to click on them all
<mgedmin> the other one was a known issue, mentioned in the release notes (ubuntu gnome upgrades lost the ability to unlock the screen because some gdm socket directory changed iirc; so of course I was very careful about disabling the screensaver before upgrading but then hit the Lock Screen key when I went to get my tea oops)
<jibel> mgedmin, so it seems there was a debconf prompt "got a conffile-prompt from dpkg for file: '/etc/default/rcS'" that you didn't see
<jibel> mgedmin, AFAIR there was a bug where the text area didn't open when there was a debconf prompt and it looked like everything stalled while it was actually waiting for user input
<mgedmin> I saw it and told it to keep my version
<jibel> ah okay
 * mgedmin has extensive notes ;)
<mgedmin> I even remarked that the buttons on the prompt had icons on them, like in early GNOME 2 days
 * mgedmin seems to remember another upgrade that restarted gdm in the middle, killing the X session, but it was more than ten years ago and I had a different computer and my notes for it are backed away somewhere I don't remember where
<didrocks> seb128: the bug reporter, Jeb Eldridge
<seb128> ah, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2018-May/msg00001.html
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, not a lot we can do
<seb128> his main issue is that launchpad don't know how to remote watch gitlab urls
<didrocks> yeah, I don't remember what was the outcome after discussing with Colin
<seb128> which Colin said is non trivial work/needs to be scoped on their roadmap
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> but I expect that's going to be less important than other snap related work he's doing
<didrocks> yes
<seb128> other option is that someone is our team is interested by doing launchpad hacking for a week
<didrocks> hum, I'll do the --help outdated fix in a separate commit, as all translations need to be updated as well
<seb128> though learning curve etc might not make that having sense
<didrocks> yeah, I don't think if a week is realistic
<didrocks> especially with the test infra
<didrocks> know*
<didrocks> (and also, don't think ;))
<jbicha> I guess cloning cjwatson is out of our budget too ;)
<didrocks> interesting option, --depth=1 or more? ;)
 * didrocks leaves quietly with his git jokeâ¦
<didrocks> ok, with the cosmic gate opened, my ubuntu-release-upgrader new build with flavor support is delayed by hours
<kenvandine> ugh... i subscribed to cosmic-changes and forgot to setup a filter... inbox exploded
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> I had to patch the file manually to make some tests, can't wait for the ppa to be built, the time is pushing back and back
<jbicha> didrocks: here's a secret, you can skip ahead of other PPAs if you bump the urgency
<jbicha> or bribe someone that can rescore your builds
<seb128> blame on dok_o?
<didrocks> jbicha: well, I know about it, it's not like I'm not using launchpad since 2007 or so :p
<didrocks> jbicha: I've got my score bumped up multiple times, but it's annoying to ping people for this
<andyrock> seb128: fixing regain_privileges_save makes the crash go away
<andyrock> so drop_privileges_save works if and only if you called drop_privileges before
<andyrock> so the intial situation is (ruid, euid, suid) =  (0, 0, 0)
<andyrock> when we call drop_privileges we get (0, 999, 0)
<andyrock> this is not enough to call webkit code (because gtk init will fail! We need ruid == euid)
<andyrock> so we call drop_privileges_save and we get (999, 999, 0)
<andyrock> atm if we call regain_privileges_save we get (0, 0, 0) but we should get
<andyrock> (0, 999, 0)
<andyrock> it used to be like that, than https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/commit/?id=815fbf12 introduced the regression
<andyrock> if found a way to do it properly
<andyrock> seb128: I'll check if kde installer works too
<andyrock> as regain_privileges_save is used there too
<BarrieButsers> Hi, i run xenial, and want a bugfix that is in zesty, but don`t want to upgrade whole system; is that possible?
<andyrock> BarrieButsers: which fix and which package?
<BarrieButsers> andyrock: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxi/+bug/1360342
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1360342 in libxi (Ubuntu) "Add Multi-arch support in libxi-dev" [Undecided,Fix released]
<andyrock> BarrieButsers: try to manually install the deb, you can download from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxi
<andyrock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/libxi-dev_1.7.9-1_amd64.deb and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/libxi6_1.7.9-1_amd64.deb
<BarrieButsers> andyrock: ok thanks, gonna try that,have downloaded the debs but gotta go now, thanks in advance for the answer. Will let know if it succeeded later
<oSoMoN> good night all
<andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/345056
<andyrock> Laney too ^^^
<jbicha> robert_ancell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/3.28.0-2ubuntu6.1
<jbicha> the workflow was a bit of a pain with those merge commits, not sure whether we'd be better off rebasing and force pushing or what
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I rebase
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, oh, I remembered the other reason that keeping the changes in the g-i-s branch is hard - you have to constantly rebase on upstream anyway, and that can get hard with a huge list of changes.
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, yeah
<andyrock> robert_ancell: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-initial-setup/merge_requests/2/diffs
<ubot5-ng`> Ubuntu bug (Merge request) 2 in gnome-initial-setup "livepatch: Do not dereference a null error pointer." (comments: 0) [Opened]
<robert_ancell> andyrock, sounds like a good idea :)
<robert_ancell> oops
<seb128> andyrock, you keep being amazing :)
<andyrock> XD
<robert_ancell> andyrock, is there a bug for that? So we can SRU it easily
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's in the description... :)
<seb128> also the current SRU just got accepted
<seb128> I wanted to do another one though, including also the "quit means quit" fix
<seb128> oh, seems like jbicha did another upload
<seb128> duplicating existing bugs
<seb128> well, my other changes are strings changes so I'm going to manually update the template and give translators a notice
<seb128> then we can do another upload after giving them so time for doing the translations
<seb128> robert_ancell, kenvandine, see, debian/ in bzr over upstream is better, no rebasing issues :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-04
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<jibel> Good morning seb128
<seb128> lut jibel, en forme ? bientÃ´t le w.e ? ;)
<jibel> seb128, en pleine forme et bientot les vacances :) et toi Ã§a va ?
<seb128> oui, c'est vendredi :)
<duflu> Morning seb128 and jibel
<duflu> bon vendredi
<seb128> bon vendredi duflu!
<jibel> hi duflu, happy friday to you
<willcooke> morning all.  Happy Friday!
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128, parÃ© pour la derniÃ¨re journÃ©e en Allemagne ?
<seb128> oui :)
<duflu> 'lo didrocks
<didrocks> hello duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va?
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey didrocks
<didrocks> installing kubuntu to test dist-upgrade telemetry
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> andyrock: you better get cjwatson to review that
<Laney> didrocks: how's it going?
<didrocks> Laney: quite well! Week-end almost there, installing kubuntuâ¦ ;) how are you?
<Laney> tired, looking forward to a 3 day weekend!
<didrocks> (funny that running the dist-upgrader from source between GTK and KDE require different proceduresâ¦ :p)
<didrocks> 3 days?
<didrocks> Monday if off for you?
<didrocks> "Early May bank holiday"
<didrocks> we are not going to see each other a lot next week :)
<didrocks> Tuesday and Thursday is off in France
<didrocks> are*
<didrocks> (but not Monday)
<Laney> yeah may's a good month for holidays
<didrocks> indeed :)
<Laney> 2 for us though, you get 4 I think
<Laney> slackerssss
<didrocks> well, actually, 3
<didrocks> we got 4, but only get paid for 3
<didrocks> the 21 one is a weird one, basically, it's taxing for elder's charges
<didrocks> and they are discussing about adding one more like this
<Laney> hmm?
<Laney> don't think we have anything like this
<didrocks> it started with the heat waves in 2003
<didrocks> so, if I count correctly, you have 8 days off in UK, we have 9 in France (once you removed the Saturdays and Sundays)
<didrocks> as for us, it depends on the year ;)
<Laney> yep always 8
<didrocks> yeah, more random for us
<Laney> unless you vote labour
<didrocks> ah ?
<Laney> they want to make more!
<didrocks> I wonder, for all of those who don't work on Monday, how does it work for you?
<didrocks> do they get it back at their leasure?
<Laney> interesting, I don't actually know if there's a general rule
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, did you see https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/345056 ? seems like andyrock figured out the permission issue :)
<seb128> I'm trying to wrap my head around the fix
<seb128> extra reviews/comment are welcome :)
<seb128> duflu, duflu, btw https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040295.html , you are right that the vcs info needs updated but that requires an upload
<duflu> seb128, yeah sounds like both cairo and ubiquity are broken simultaneously. Fixing at least one of them will hide the problem
<seb128> right
<duflu> And we have fixes for both
<didrocks> oh nice! looking
<seb128> well done team!
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> I don't understand why we don't call directly os.setresuid(0, egid, 0) for instance
<didrocks> probably because os.setgroups([]) has an incidence, but I've never used that one
<seb128> yeah, it's a bit over me as well how that code works :/
<seb128> I wonder if we should get foundations to review
<didrocks> well, preservering the euid and geuid is needed for sure
<Nafallo> morning
<didrocks> and replacing with 0 for uid/guid was a mistake
<didrocks> but I don't understand why the 2 calls
<didrocks> hey Nafallo
<seb128> right
<seb128> I've pinged Steve/Dimitri, let's see if they want to review
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> hi seb128
<Laney> I already told andyroc-k earlier that he should ask Colin
<Laney> but ok that you pinged them
<seb128> ah, I disconnected/didn't see that
<seb128> thx
<seb128> Laney, xnox commented saying you should review :p
<Laney> that's not a very helpful comment
<seb128> indeed
<xnox> /o\
<xnox> ð±
<seb128> xnox, btw you could change the Vcs info in the git repo at least, so it's in the next upload
<xnox> seb128, yes
<seb128> thx
<Laney> I still recommend that Andrea talks to Colin when he's around, that's probably likely to be the most productive route
<Laney> hi xnox :P
<xnox> yo
<seb128> Laney, right
<andyrock> hey all
<andyrock> didrocks: the two calls are required because .setgroups requires permissions
<andyrock> that's why the regression was introduced in the first place
<andyrock> I'll talk with colin and add a comment to explain why the double call is required
<seb128> tkamppeter, did you see bug #1763520?
<ubot5> bug 1763520 in cups (Ubuntu) "after upgrade to bionic, printing fails without explanation / logs / debuggability" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763520
<andyrock> seb128: Laney: Colin said we should ask Foundation to review it
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> right then :-/
<Laney> xnox: guess it's up to you please :-)
<andyrock> we could ask community to help testing it
<andyrock> on kubuntu too
<xnox> lovely
<xnox> Laney, my first thoughts are "it seems sketchy to have more than one pair of drop/restore privilidges"
<xnox> Laney, the effects of these extra euids, are potentially non-obvious
<xnox> Laney, and i need to inspect all calls to these things....
<xnox> Laney, Test that "push battan" works
<didrocks> andyrock: sent "approved" for my part as you answered my question, but yeah, would be nice to have Foundation doing the final round ;)
<andyrock> the *_save version is not used in a lot of places
<andyrock> basically in 3 places
<seb128> who wants to handle merging/SRUing that ubiquity fix?
<seb128> cyphermox, xnox, want to do that?
<cyphermox> I can merge it
<seb128> thx
<seb128> if someone here wants to try to drive that through upload/SRU next week that would be nice
<seb128> otherwise I can have a look once I'm back
<didrocks> my realm for a "s" option in bzr sheleve
<didrocks> shelve*
<seb128> I update bug #1751252 for SRU info
<ubot5> bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252
<seb128> cyphermox, if you merge can you dput to bionic as well? ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, the bug reference is ^ and is SRU compliant
<cyphermox> yeah, I was going to dput as well
<seb128> thx!
<cyphermox> it's just that I was preparing to do this on the bzr branch, because that's what I still had loaded
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> on that note, I'm wrapping in a bit so have a nice w.e/week desktopers if I don't see you again before your eod
<seb128> (I might be online from airport/train/... later)
<didrocks> have a nice travel back/week-end/week seb128!
<seb128> thx
<rbasak> Bug 1767527 looks legit to me. I think I've hit it previously (upgrading to 16.04 perhaps?). Stuff gets removed on release upgrade such that there's not enough in the initramfs to decrypt LUKS.
<ubot5> bug 1767527 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "[18.04] Installation boot failure. WARNING: invalid line in /etc/crypttab" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767527
<HEX0> rbasak: afaik the only hook you need in initramfs is "encrypt". Imo it's best to just compile everything into the kernel including firmware blobs and disable module loading.
<HEX0> default keymap is US so you only need keyboard and encrypt hook. if you use dracut you need to specify crypt module. I'd personally still make initramfs as simple as possible so it's less likely to fail and build everything into the kernel
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end desktoppers!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-05
<Mirv> yay, https://launchpad.net/~arter97/+archive/ubuntu/unity (required on 16.04 LTS with hidpi due to bug #1689356 regression)
<ubot5> bug 1689356 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "UI scale being reset to 1 everytime when display sleeps for a while" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689356
<Mirv> I wish it could be evaluated whether the backported problem causing patches could be reverted
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-06
<Superslowpoke> TESTING TESTING
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-29
<Fudge> anyone have some available time that could walk through some live-build steps, willing to pay for the individual's time.
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> ?
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<willcooke> Jet lag got me up at 5:30, figured I might as well do some email before the kids get up
<jibel> Hey willcooke
<jibel> still jetlagged )
<jibel> :)
<willcooke> haha!  I thought you might be here already :D  Morning jio
<willcooke> jibel,
<jibel> woke up at 5:00
<willcooke> same
<willcooke> Although Saturday night I went to bed at about 9 and woke up at 9 Sunday morning :)
<willcooke> Good journey home?
<jibel> Yeah, the trip was uneventful
<jibel> Although I'll avoid a connection in Shanghai next time, this airport is huge
<jibel> 1h30 to go from one terminal to the other and check-in
<willcooke> ooof
<willcooke> I had about 3 hours in KL which was enough time to find the gate, find a bar and get some sit-down dinner, do a bit of shopping and get to the gate early
<willcooke> The 13 hours home was literally a PITA.  The seat was very uncomfortable
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> hi duflu
<duflu> willcooke, what airline had the bad seat?
<willcooke> Ubiquiti wifi APs... do they **need** a POE injector
<willcooke> duflu, BA.  I hate them now.
<jibel> like any long trip it's like your seated on a piece of wood after several hours
<willcooke> I think my butt hole healed over
<jibel> willcooke, no they come with a power supply if you don't have an router with a POE socket
<willcooke> woot
<jibel> s/router/switch/
<jibel> willcooke, the AP is connected to the power supply with an ethernet cable so you can use a long one if the wall socket if far from where you want to place the antenna
<willcooke> (need to restart - brb)
<willcooke> oh wait, no I dont
<willcooke> fixed
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning didrocks oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, didrocks, willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey early willcooke, morning oSoMoN
<willcooke> oSoMoN, do you have Thunderbird installed by chance?
<willcooke> *by any
<oSoMoN> willcooke, IÂ do
<oSoMoN> IÂ don't use it for e-mail atm, but it's there
<willcooke> oSoMoN, can you see if this is real?  https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1254659#answer-1216735
<willcooke> not urgent
<oSoMoN> willcooke, I can confirm, and it appears the title of the confirmation box uses the name of the folder currently sele
<oSoMoN> selected
<oSoMoN> looks like an upstream bug to me
<oSoMoN> gotta go to school now, will dig further and file an upstream bug if necessary
<willcooke> oSoMoN, nw.  Not sure how that's somehow an Ubuntu problem.  Ho humm
 * willcooke -> get the kids up
<pieq> Hello everyone!
<pieq> Does anyone here know who is in charge of snapcrafting Musescore? (https://snapcraft.io/musescore) I looked on their website and in the source code, but there is no trace of debian packaging recipes nor snapcraft.yaml...
<didrocks> hey pieq. I don't really know but snap info musescore says that MuseScore is the publisher, so sounds like upstream itself. Maybe popey would know (and this could be discussed on #snappy or snapcraft.io forum)
<jamesh> pieq: it looks like the user "pachulo" on the snapcraft forum is responsible for it: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-musescore-v3-0-1/9586
<jamesh> you could try messaging him there
<pieq> didrocks, jamesh thanks a lot! I didn't know where to start digging for info, I never think of going on forums to look for things... :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> hey willcooke, you are up early!
<willcooke> I've been here for hours :)
<seb128> how are you? had a good week/trip back?
<seb128> or you are not back yet?
<didrocks> morning seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<willcooke> seb128, easy enough trip back, just long, boring and uncomfortable.  So business as usual.
<seb128> k
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> willcooke,  "economy as usual" :)
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, I am good. Still feeling behind schedule though so I will finish that doc for you today
<duflu> How are you seb128?
<duflu> It was a perfect storm having the release, Easter and ANZAC day all around the same time
<seb128> duflu, don't worry, the others didn't write/their sent me anything yet either, there is no hurry
<willcooke> duflu, ha, good point
<duflu> seb128, are we going to release 3.32.1 to disco?
<seb128> duflu, disco is done, we are going to SRU the .1 that make sense for a SRU though
<duflu> Yes, SRU
<seb128> which probably mean skipping tarballs that only ship translations updates (not very useful since we strip those out to langpack but in practice we don't do langpack updates on non LTS)
<seb128> but I guess you are more interested by the gnoe-shell stack, I expect we do SRUs for that yes
<pieq> willcooke, glad to know you made it back easily (albeit not comfortably)
<willcooke> pieq, Got off the plane in to 8 degrees c.  cccccccold
<didrocks> willcooke: waow, worse than here, we lost some degrees but not that much :)
<willcooke> Summer over already XD
<didrocks> I hope you enjoyed the summer holidays :p
<didrocks> meaning: flying ;)
<willcooke> ha
<jibel> Is there a way to trigger an action on a kernel panic or a specific driver crash?
<jibel> in my case nouveau
<pieq> hey jibel, I see you're enjoying the testing laptop already :)
<pieq> jibel, what kind of action do you want to trigger?
<jibel> pieq, just display a message on the console saying to boot in "safe graphics" mode
<jibel> currently it hangs when the GUI session comes up
<seb128> willcooke, jamesh, kenvandine, unsure if we keep a list of desktopish snap problem, but https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/mpris-can-not-be-used-with-snaps/11119/ should probably be on it
<seb128> ah, there were comments but I didn't see those via emails because the topic was moved to another section
<willcooke> odd, because e.g. spotify works.  Could be a problem with the snap itself
<jamesh> seb128: looking
<jamesh> willcooke: this seems to be about controlling music apps via D-Bus: it wouldn't stop the music app itself working
<jamesh> things like the old sound indicator in Unity 7
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN willcooke pieq didrocks jamesh seb128 duflu jibel \o
<jamesh> hi marcustomlinson
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Afternoon jamesh
<willcooke> jamesh, yeah that's what I mean:  https://imgur.com/a/y9sc8TZ
<willcooke> morning marcustomlinson
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson!
<willcooke> jamesh, well, actually, I /think/ that's what I mean.  Could be different paths sttill
<jamesh> willcooke: on a second read of the thread, it sounds like this is an additional constraint imposed by KDE rather than something in the MPRIS spec itself.  This isn't the only case of snapd's desktop file naming policy causing problems though
<jamesh> there aren't obvious simple solutions though.
<jamesh> it's trying to link a MPRIS bus name back to the associated application .desktop file.
<willcooke> erk
<jibel> hi marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> good morning pieq, jamesh, seb128, marcustomlinson, jibel
<seb128> Salut oSoMoN! En forme? Did you have good holifays
<seb128> d
<oSoMoN> salut seb128! all good, and you? holidays are a record from the distant past at this point, but week-end was very good :)
<Laney> hey
<seb128> oSoMoN, ah, sorry, I missed the fact that you were already back last week :)
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> oSoMoN, I had a nice long w.e (too friday off), spending some time in France, in the north this week
 * oSoMoN is in stealth mode
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<willcooke> morning Laney
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I was hogging oSoMoN all to myself :P
<seb128> :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, I haven't followed up with upstream mozilla/geoclue on bug #1826290, do you want me to?
<ubot5`> bug 1826290 in geoclue-2.0 (Ubuntu) "geoclue mozilla location api key rate limited" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826290
<duflu> Morning Laney
<Laney> moin seb128 didrocks oSoMoN willcooke duflu, what's up?
<didrocks> Laney: not much, good week-end surrounded by Red Hat guys mostly :)
<didrocks> you?
<Laney> oh yeah, interviews? ;-)
<didrocks> ahah, if only people did interviews while eating lunch/playing board games! :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, I was waiting on willcooke to reply/comment
<Laney> yeah was good thanks, went to the local charity shops to find things for a pirate outfit, surprisingly successful and cheap
<seb128> didrocks, that was not how the interview went at Canonical? ;-)
<Laney> didrocks didn't get interviewed, he just hacked the HR database and started working
<seb128> get to fly to UDS, play tetrinet with vuntz
<seb128> :p
<Laney> you can do a lot via postinst scripts :>
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, I remember we talked about food with ogra when he interviewed me, so yeah :)
<didrocks> Laney: shhhhhhh
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> I still remember signing my contrat while sitting on the floor with Alice, at UDS
<didrocks> contract*
<didrocks> good times!
<ogra> lol, oh man ... now i feel old !
<didrocks> as I'm not in: but you are ogra :)
<didrocks> like all of us :p
<jibel> tseliot, Hey do you know if nvidia-detector is used by anything?
<jibel> it's broken but it doesn't seem to be used anywhere (I checked in the installer and software-properties)
<tseliot> jibel: I don't think it is any more. I am leaving it there just because we might want to use something like that (in the future) when performing dist-upgrades (to migrate drivers)
<jibel> tseliot, okay, I'll fix it then, I may use it in the installer.
<tseliot> ok
<jibel> tseliot, also I filled bug 1826844
<ubot5`> bug 1826844 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "nvidia-drivers-* are not on the ISO" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826844
<jibel> tseliot, could you have a look?
<jibel> I think they should be on ship-live
<jibel> but not sure if there is licensing issues
<tseliot> jibel: is that on the Ubuntu installer?
<jibel> yes
<tseliot> jibel: the nvidia drivers are in restricted, so, as long as restricted is enabled, it should work
<duflu> Oh my. 19.10 isos already
<jibel> tseliot, not is there is no network
<jibel> if*
<tseliot> jibel: are the codecs on the iso? If not, we should probably disable the checkbox
<jibel> tseliot, no but it's less important IMHO, if the user doesn't install proprietary drivers the system may not work after installation because nouveau doesn't support the card
<tjaalton> jibel: how would it boot the installer then?
<jibel> tjaalton, in safe graphics mode
<tjaalton> if nomodeset is used it'll get carried over to the installed system
<tjaalton> or should, aiui
<jibel> ah, let me check
<duflu> Yes, I still see bug reports from users about that
<jibel> tjaalton, no it is no
<jibel> t
<tjaalton> ok
<seb128> duflu, 'that' being?
<tjaalton> sounds like a bug
<duflu> seb128, if you installed with 'nomodeset' then you get it stuck on. Meaning low res graphics
<seb128> duflu, even if you enable nvidia drivers post install?
<seb128> if so that sounds like something ubuntu-drives should handle
<duflu> seb128, I don't think that's relevant because Nvidia doesn't support 'modeset' by default :)
<duflu> But it would be relevant if someone tried to go back to nouveai
<duflu> nouveau
<tjaalton> can't make everyone happy
<tseliot> jibel: including the nvidia drivers in the image (as in "in the pool")  wouldn't be a problem, legally speaking, since the kernel modules wouldn't be built, unless the user tries to install them
<jibel> i'm preparing a doc that summarizes all of this, I'll mention nomodeset not being carried over.
<duflu> I guess it's not a common problem. It's only going to happen for "new" GPUs that nouveau can't handle, and other more rare vendors
<tseliot> ubuntu-drivers could remove "nomodeset", if needed. As duflu said, though, we don't really enable modesetting for nvidia, except for hybrid graphics
<duflu> tseliot, FYI I am tracking issues with that, so don't recommend enabling it by default... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=nvidia-drm.modeset
<jibel> duflu, I've a laptop with an mx150, so not super fancy stuff, and it doesn't boot with nouveau
<tseliot> duflu: yes, I definitely won't do that ;)
<tseliot> but thanks for tracking that
<duflu> jibel, I know that's not very new, but in terms of nouveau it is
<duflu> which probably sounds confusing to a French speaker
<duflu> :)
<jibel> :)
<didrocks> those project names :)
<tjaalton> nouveau_vieux_dri.so
<duflu> Yeah, I think more developers need to be willing to make up new words
<oSoMoN> willcooke, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1547664, definitely not an ubuntu-specific bug
<ubot5`> Mozilla bug 1547664 in Untriaged ""File > Empty Trash" incorrectly displays "Empty <current folder>" in confirmation dialog title" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<didrocks> Finally fixed my secondary laptop boot \o/
<didrocks> was puzzling: being able to see gdm, log into it and when user session starts, locks up
<didrocks> which lead to "anytime I switch VT, it locks up"
<didrocks> thought it was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bash/+bug/1822184, but I didn't alias sh to bashâ¦
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822184 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "clear_console locks up video when X is running and you log out from a plain text console" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<didrocks> it was subiquity snap that I forgot to remove before rebooting months ago and a new version created this tty switch issue
<didrocks> but without logs of anything that starts on the machine, was hard to findâ¦ (and as it booted, gdm was showing up and workingâ¦)
<Laney> O_O
<seb128> Laney, I guess you properly filter launchpad emails, but mentioning still in case, SRU bug #1816547 got a autpkgtest investigation needed comment
<ubot5`> bug 1816547 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Bionic) "SRU 2.56.4 to bionic" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1816547
<Laney> seb128: yes got it, I'm assigned to the bug, thx
<seb128> Laney, np :)
<xnox> willcooke, seb128, Laney - do we need like a virtual porting sprint of duliplicity/deja-dup to python3?
<seb128> xnox, no
<Laney> what?
<xnox> seb128, is it in progress by somebody already? i saw the trello card on desktop board, is there more info?
<seb128> xnox, it's done upstream, just didn't get tested enough to be shipped in a tarball/declared as stable
<xnox> ah!
<seb128> but it's probably going to be done before mid-cycle
<seb128> so should land in Ubuntu this cycle without problem
<xnox> is there like a ppa to test it? maybe we can contribute testing / stress testing it?
<seb128> xnox, not that I know, but you have some details on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/duplicity/+spec/python3
<xnox> omg blueprints!
<seb128> popey, hey, do you know where to report bugs about the teeworlds snap? It's feature in gnome-software, I installed it on my old laptops but the 32bits build is buggy and included an amd64 binary
<seb128> $ teeworlds-unofficial.teeworlds
<seb128>  /snap/teeworlds-unofficial/10/command-teeworlds.wrapper: 2: exec: /snap/teeworlds-unofficial/10/bin/teeworlds: Exec format error
<willcooke> seb128, popey is OOO atm at a conference
<seb128> willcooke, k, no worry, I'm probably the only person still having a 32 bit Ubuntu laptop :)
<Laney> seb128 busted playing games at work
<willcooke> :D
 * Laney telnet nethack.alt.org
<seb128> haha
<seb128> Laney, I was testing gnome-software :p
<didrocks> that's what he said :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, does the 0ad snap work on 32 bits, while you're at it? ;)
<Trevinho> morning folks
<willcooke> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi willcooke
<marcustomlinson> "morning" Trevinho
<oSoMoN> good afterning Trevinho
<Trevinho> marcustomlinson: hi, welcome :) (well I was mostly off last week, so...)
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: hey too
<Trevinho> and well it's morning here in Oaxaca :)
<Trevinho> [has to be read something like "Wakaka"]
<marcustomlinson> Wakaka Meh'hico
<Trevinho> yep
<marcustomlinson> Nice, I hear they have good food down there
<Trevinho> everything is good here. Food, weather, people
<Trevinho> office view  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/dz9kLXrD/IMG_20190429_101409.jpg
<seb128> hey trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: hi!! all good.
<Trevinho> you?
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> didrocks: hi
<zyga> seb128: hey
<zyga> seb128: I believe I'm hitting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1817128
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1817128 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "gnome-keyring not automatically unlocked on login" [High,Fix released]
<zyga> seb128: or something related perhaps, on each boot gdm doesn't start correctly, restarting it always helps
<zyga> seb128: perhaps the error I referenced is wrong, let me look through logs more carefully
<zyga> journal log from a boot with failed gdm http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f2TgG9xCdQ/
<zyga>  
 * zyga switched to english to get more useful ogs
<zyga> seb128: note that this is using a spinning-rust-hdd, not ssd, so perhaps it is a race of some sort
<seb128> zyga, the bug you mentioned there is about the keyring not being unlocked on logging which leads to get prompted again for your login password in the session when something tries to access it
<seb128> zyga, your description following sounds different then
<zyga> yeah, that's not the bug, seems like a red herring
<zyga> perhaps related to nvidia-persistenced
<zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/zckoMWWf/
<zyga> I'll disable that and retry
<seb128> can you do a 'clean' description of what is happening exactly?
<seb128> gdm fails to start a session?
<zyga> seb128: on each boot gdm doesn't start successfuly, restarting gdm always works and desktop operates normally
<zyga> yes
<seb128> oh, that pastebin looks like a real error
<zyga> yeah, fun me when using real hardware instead of VMs :)
<seb128> zyga, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-390/+bug/1799305 sounds like the same error
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1799305 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "No desktop after reboot when using nvidia graphics on 18.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1798790
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1798790 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver (and setting WaylandEnable=false fixes it)" [High,Confirmed]
<zyga>  yes, it looks identical
<zyga> though I used nvidia 418
<seb128> yeah, I don't think the driver version matters
<zyga> set WaylandEnable=false as the bug chatter suggets
<zyga> so, can you explain what is the situation with wayland or ubuntu? I read we are using Xorg, not wayland
<seb128> gdm uses wayland
<zyga> that's interesting
<zyga> but restarting gdm does work
<seb128> because otherwise it wouldn't be able to start a wayland session
<seb128> yeah, it does seem racy
<seb128> but only a problem when wayland is in use
<zyga> switched wayland off now... fingers crossed
<Laney> it's meant to fall back to xorg
<Laney> but that apparently doesn't work
<zyga> yep, I see the cursor now
<zyga> and gdm worked as well
<zyga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1798790 is the real deal there
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1798790 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver (and setting WaylandEnable=false fixes it)" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> right
<seb128> we should perhaps rls-incoming that one
<zyga> if you need someone to debug this I'm here to help
<seb128> thx
<zyga> otherwise I'll keep using waylandenable=false to work on nvidia snaps
<seb128> is that on a laptop that you might have to the next sprint? ;)
<zyga> no, unfortunately not
<seb128> k
<zyga> it's an older desktop with GTX 650
<seb128> well, still good to know that you can get debug info
<Laney> get a journal log with debugging enabled in gdm3/custom.conf, and file an upstream bug imho
<Laney> that's the first step
<seb128> zyga, could you enable debug in /etc/gdm3/custom.conf
<seb128> what Laney said
<zyga> sure
<seb128> Laney, zyga, according to that launchpad bug it's reported upstream as https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/issues/435
<gitbot> GNOME issue 435 in gdm "Ubuntu 18.10 login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver" [Closed]
<seb128> but that has no debug log atm
<seb128> so would be good to add one
<zyga> collecting now
<Laney> gdm debugging isn't on
<Laney> thx
<zyga> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/issues/435#note_499818
<gitbot> GNOME issue 435 in gdm "Ubuntu 18.10 login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver" [Closed]
<Laney> thx, might want to attach that, pastebin gets cleared out sometimes
<Laney> also reopen the bug I guess
<zyga> sure
 * Laney didn't notice before that it's closed
<zyga> done now
<zyga> oh, indeed
<Laney> :>
<zyga> can I do something else?
<zyga> in that case, I'll EOD
 * Laney waves
 * willcooke -> EOD
<seb128> zyga, thx (I didn't notice either that it was closed)
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx for geoloc key email, btw I just tried and get the error atm while I didn't like an hour ago
<seb128> so I guess we reach the number of requests around mid afternoon
<oSoMoN> seb128, ack, thanks for testing/confirming. Getting our own key would only mitigate the issue, not fix it for good, but I hope they offer some sort of monitoring for API key owners so that we get a rough picture of how many requests we're dealing with
<seb128> right
<seb128> and maybe we can convince them to give us an higher quota
<Trevinho> seb128: can you check weather https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/362055 is really merged and in case mark is as such please?
<Trevinho> So I can prepare next round where we had some OEM requests too IIRC.
<Trevinho> and would probably be the ase to include that XUbuntuCancel thing too?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, meeting?
<kenvandine> Sorry, I had to decline today
<kenvandine> Need to pickup one of my kids from school
<kenvandine> Leaving right now :-)
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: ^^
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-30
<duflu> Trevinho, where in the world are you at the moment?
<duflu> Trevinho[3v1n0], ^
 * zyga opened https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/issues/483 
<gitbot> GNOME issue 483 in gdm "Ubuntu 19.04 login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver" [Opened]
<duflu> Thanks
<duflu> ... zyga
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
<duflu> biab
<didrocks> hey duflu
<pieq> zyga, I didn't witness this when testing 19.04, but I was using laptops with SSDs...
<zyga> pieq: yeah, I bet this is a race and using a hdd is relevant
<pieq> zyga, this doesn't happen with open source drivers (nouveau) instead of nvidia's?
<zyga> I did not check
<zyga> my whole point of using the hardware and nvidia is to work with snapping proprietary driver
<zyga> I can check if that is someone wants to try to debug the core issue
<jibel> OOC, are you reproducing this bug with the snapped version of the driver or the deb?
<jibel> zyga, ^
<zyga> jibel: with the deb
<jibel> k
<zyga> jibel: the snap is not a factor in this, it happened straight out of vanilla install
<jibel> yeah, was just curious
<jibel> pieq, would you have a workstation with an nvidia graphics card on which you could run lspci -n and paste the output?
<jibel> eg not a laptop with intel+nvidia
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<Trevinho> duflu: Oaxaca, Mexico
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, Trevinho
<pieq> jibel, nothing around at the moment, let me check
<oSoMoN> salut pieq, jibel
<jibel> pieq, it is not urgent, I'd like to know the subclass of the card if it's 300 or 302
<jibel> hi oSoMoN
<pieq> salut oSoMoN
<jibel> s/hi/bonjour/ :)
<pieq> jibel, this is what I get on a workstation with Nvidia GV100 GPU: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/jf4SQfjqRJ/
<jibel> pieq, thanks
<pieq> but I don't see the subclass (I took this out of a Checkbox session lspci attachment, not sure if it's -n)
<pieq> (it's not)
<pieq> :D
<jibel> pieq, it's fine, it's 0300
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for sponsoring g-c-c!
<GunnarHj> Laney: Yes, the current handling of modifiers isn't ideal, even if affected labels are distinguishable in Ubuntu. Any thoughts on approach/hack as regards translations of such strings? I suppose it should better be done upstream if at all.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> oui, et toi?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, en forme :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<GunnarHj> Good morning all!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, seb128, GunnarHj
 * duflu checks
<duflu> And good morning Trevinho
<seb128> trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3704 ... can we just sync https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/news/20190425T130319Z.html instead?
<duflu> He's in Mexico so I assume might almost be bed time :)
<Trevinho> it is :)
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, now that it's released
<Trevinho> syncing that is fine
<Trevinho> for sru might still apply the other one though
<seb128> right
<seb128> thx trevinho
<seb128> and good night :)
 * Trevinho hides in bed :)
<Trevinho> thanks
<Trevinho> ah, someone could publish the shell stacks though
<seb128> I will let Laney review those :)
<seb128> andyrock, jamesh, tkamppeter, you need to post your weekly summary on the hub
<didrocks> I think we should go back to everyone posting on Monday
<didrocks> seems like people are slowly starting to post on Tuesday again
<seb128> I don't think we ever moved from posting on monday?
<didrocks> well, I mean encourage people to do it again
<seb128> it's just post release and it was a week with holidays/long w.e for some etc
<seb128> travelling for others as well
<seb128> but yeah, that's why I pinged today, trying to remind people to go back on schedule :)
<seb128> (me included :p)
<didrocks> looks like it :p
<didrocks> I should have pinged you like the only time in a year I didn't post on Monday :p
 * didrocks writes to check every Tuesday morning now ;)
<seb128> haha, fair enough :)
<Laney> hi there
<marcustomlinson> good morning
<oSoMoN> hello Laney, marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey Laney, marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey Laney marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> Pretty good :) oSoMoN sponsored my first upload to archive yesterday
<seb128> congrats! :)
<Laney> hey oSoMoN didrocks seb128 marcustomlinson
<Laney> doing alright, nice climbing session yesterday
<Laney> how are you?!?!?!
<seb128> I'm good!
<seb128> didn't do anything fancy though, I wish I could play tennis this week but it's not likely, hopefully next
<Laney> someone sick?
<seb128> no, just in north of France this week (gf familly) and I don't have a club or someone to play with here...
<Laney> ohhh
<duflu> Morning Laney
<duflu> and morning willcooke
<willcooke> hihi
<willcooke> marcustomlinson, good news!  You should now be a member of the Canonical group in Trello
<willcooke> mad times ahead
<marcustomlinson> indeed I am :)
<marcustomlinson> weird though that kenvandine and jamesh are not :P
<Laney> please escort them off the premises
 * Laney nods gravely towards duflu 
<duflu> gravely?
<Laney> It was that or sagely
<Laney> and I did briefly consider savagely but it's too early for that
<Laney> solemnly would also work, but I'll save that treat for another day
<Laney> vigorously after I've had an espresso
<Laney> etc
<duflu> Careful with your neck
<duflu> Presumably you only have one
 * duflu waves instead
<Laney> zyga: want to try something? (maybe in #gdm / gimpnet so that upstream can see?)
<zyga> Laney: hold on, let me join that network
<Laney> thx
<zyga> Laney: I'm there
<andyrock> good morning!
<Laney> ð­ hi andyrock ð­
<andyrock> ð­
<seb128> hey andyrock
 * seb128 hugs andyrock
 * andyrock hugs the desktop team and all the ubuntu friends
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<duflu> ð¤
<duflu> The hug emoji is somewhat confusing
<duflu> ð­
<seb128> duflu, do you have a special way to triage/keep track of gnome-shell bugs that might be worth a SRU to bionic? e.g bug #1825547
<ubot5`> bug 1825547 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "incorrect vpn status" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825547
<duflu> seb128, no I wait for a bionic bug report unless it is critical
<duflu> If there are none then there may be a reason for that you have overlooked
<duflu> so targeting an SRU might not be needed
<seb128> inf act that is fixed in the SRU that recently landed
<tkamppeter> seb128, weekly summary is posted now.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thx, please try to remember to post on monday (or earlier)
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have all the time done it "before the meeting", when is the typical reading time by you or whover chairs the meeting?
<seb128> tkamppeter, no, we said (in Malta or was it the one before?) that they need to posted by monday evening so team members in australia or new zealand can read them before the meeting and post comments/questions if they have some
<seb128> tkamppeter, if you post them on 10am european time on tuesday it's like 9pm for Robert and he hasn't a chance to comment before the meeting
<seb128> since he's already done with work for the day
<seb128> xnox, thx for that community hub e-cycle plans post, it's useful!
<xnox> seb128, well, also awaiting for my ubuntu-devel-announce post to be published to the mailing list
<xnox> seb128, as one wise man once said (willcooke) we get better engagement with emojis!
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> :D
<didrocks> ï¿¼ï¸ golang updated to 1.12. \o/
<didrocks> phew, having 1.10 in the archive starts to be annoying
<didrocks> (/me secretly hope 1.13 is released before FF and we can update to it)
<xnox> didrocks, pester mwhudson about that =)
<didrocks> xnox: I'll gladly do it :)
<willcooke> bah
<willcooke> as I knew would happen, the calendar didnt remind me and so now I am unprepared for this meeting.
 * willcooke wings it
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 30 13:30:04 2019 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey
<Trevinho> hello
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> hey
<andyrock> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<marcustomlinson> \o
<willcooke> Bad times:  Last meeting with andyrock ð­
 * kenvandine cries
<Trevinho> ð­ð­ð­ð­ð­
<andyrock> ð­
<willcooke> Bye andyrock, we will all miss you.  We got you this cake:  ð
<kenvandine> cake!
<andyrock> I'll miss you all too :D
<willcooke> and we all clubbed together and bought you a helicopter:  ð
<marcustomlinson> I already missed you andyrock
<seb128> :(
<oSoMoN> come back soon!
<willcooke> Good times:  My first meeting with marcustomlinson ððð
<Trevinho> no the helicopter is what he has to buy us...
<willcooke> :d
<willcooke> D
<didrocks> we are going to miss you andyrock
<willcooke> ok, lets whizz through the bugs
<willcooke> I have some AOB which might be interesting
<willcooke> #topic Bionic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic: Bionic bugs
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> incoming is clear
<seb128> willcooke, there is one listed here
<willcooke> oh boy
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> :)
<seb128> looks like it's assigned to Trevinho/being handled, so probably just a matter of untagging
<willcooke> donr
<willcooke> e
<Trevinho> yeah added to know weather was the case to consider is rls
<willcooke> for tracking there is this one:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnfs/+bug/1746598
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1746598 in libnfs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[MIR] libnfs" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> Trevinho, +1, its important as it can lock up the shell, useful to fix
<willcooke> plus andyrock did all hard work
<willcooke> ;)
<seb128> willcooke, I've assigned the libnfs one to Eric who was driving that conversation
<willcooke> ah thx
<willcooke> #topic Cosmic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic: Cosmic Bugs
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Really is clear (even ctrl-f desktop this time)
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> There's this one which is unassigned: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/saaj/+bug/1814133
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1814133 in virtualbox-hwe (Ubuntu Cosmic) "update to openjdk 11 in 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> which is probably in our list for LO
<willcooke> and that looks like its in hand/done
<oSoMoN> yeah, the LO part is done
<willcooke> Oh, we have libnfs and fonts-liberation2
<willcooke> seb128 - do I remember you were looking at the nfsone?
<oSoMoN> not sure where the fonts-liberation task comes fromâ¦
<oSoMoN> I'll ask do_ko after the meeting
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> and then there's this one:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/1822062
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822062 in cups (Ubuntu Eoan) "Race condition on boot between cups and sssd" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke> which looks like a cups issue?
<seb128> willcooke, that one was also in the bionic report
<seb128> it looks like it's being handled by the sustain team already
<seb128> I would just assign all the lines to Victor
<seb128> or Eric
<willcooke> ok, I will do that after the meeting
<seb128> willcooke, nfs is fix commited or are you talking about another line?
<seb128> (we skip over those usually since that's = handled already)
<tkamppeter> This one is already assigned to Victor.
<willcooke> I was talking about the Eric one
<willcooke> my bad
<willcooke> oki, so that all looks ok then
<willcooke> #topic Disco Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic: Disco Bugs
<seb128> the libnfs one is the same as bionic, right
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> All already assigned.  Except that we should reassign the tracker-miners one probably
<seb128> we need to +1/-1 serie nominations though
<tdaitx> willcooke: sorry to intrude, 1814133 is a bug that we used to track the openjdk-11 transition to bionic, please don't reuse it, create a new bug instead, thanks ;-)
<andyrock> the fix is already upstream
<andyrock> for tracker-miners
<seb128> I vote +1 for the tracker one
<seb128> it's fine to have andy assigned, he did the work, I can do the uploading
<andyrock> iirc I linked the fix in the bug report
<willcooke> ok
<willcooke> next:
<andyrock> seb128: let me know if you need some help with that, the fix targeted tracker 2.2 but it should apply without problems in 2.1.8
<seb128> bug #1823464 looks like it just needs untagging since it got accepted in a previous meeting
<ubot5`> bug 1823464 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Disco) "gnome-keyring ftbfs in disco (s390x only)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823464
<willcooke> done
<seb128> willcooke, we still didn't review the list to accept/reject the items
<seb128> the list is still going to be in that state next week if we don't do that...
<willcooke> that's what we're doing now?
<seb128> incoming is about ack/nack
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1813716
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1813716 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_x11_display_get_xdisplay â detach_pixmap â meta_surface_actor_x11_dispose â g_object_unref â ObjectInstance â â release_native_object" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> compositore crash is instead something happening in restart but is our top in errors.u.c. However not upstreamed yet. But got a +1 review so far.
<seb128> ah, I though your next was another item
<willcooke> +1 for that shell crash
<seb128> +1 for rls
<willcooke> motion carried
<willcooke> +1 for ee too then
<seb128> (still about bug #1823464, kenvandine can you talk to jamesh about it, he seems to have been ignoring him, I wouldn't be surprised he overlooked the bug assignement/launchpad email)
<ubot5`> bug 1823464 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Disco) "gnome-keyring ftbfs in disco (s390x only)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823464
<seb128> willcooke, +1
<kenvandine> i emailed him about it and never heard back
<kenvandine> it's on my list for our 1:1 this week
<Laney> Trevinho: get that merged now, we can include it in this upload I am doing atm
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1826933
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1826933 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashes in meta_monitor_mode_get_resolution -> calculate_scale -> meta_monitor_calculate_mode_scale derive_calculated_global_scale -> meta_monitor_manager_rebuild_logical_monitors_derived" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke> Not sure how that manifests itself
<Trevinho> Laney: no maintainer ack yet, I expect can involve some more time then
<Laney> ask
<Laney> (you got a comment from Carlos)
<willcooke> Trevinho, re: #1826933 are you +1 on rls tagging that?  Is it a big deal?
<willcooke> shell crash, sounds like it is
<willcooke> anyone got any feelings about it?
<willcooke> +1 from me
<seb128> +1, sounds like worth fixing
<Laney> it's going to be in the upload
<Laney> just nominate it, that is needed for the SRU anyway
 * Laney wouldn't have tagged that one
<Trevinho> willcooke: yes, I've already proposed the fix in the merge Laney is handling
<willcooke> k, thx
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> DD tracking is actually all up to date, the report is just a little old
<seb128> willcooke, bug #1826182 has no assignee for disco?
<willcooke> #topic Eoan bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic: Eoan bugs
<ubot5`> bug 1826182 in mutter (Ubuntu Eoan) "[DisplayLink][fixed upstream] GNOME libmutter crash on hotplugging a dock with a monitor" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826182
<willcooke> Trevinho, can you take that one>? ^
<Trevinho> willcooke: already taken too
<seb128> trevinho, no you didn't, or launchpad disagreed
<willcooke> he did now
<seb128> ah, now
<willcooke> since I updated it
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> when he said so it was still not commited :;p
<seb128> thx
<Trevinho> seb128: I meant it's in the upload IIRC.
<willcooke> Looks like the ee reports are missing, anyone know who I should ask to fix that?
<seb128> let me ask bdmurray
<Trevinho> willcooke: I was about asking the same
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> Is there another way to see them easily?
<willcooke> them = bugs
<jibel> launchpad advanced search
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=rls-ee-incoming
<Trevinho> also andyrock had an issue when they were added to incoming but... (can't remember all the conditions)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1798790
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1798790 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu login screen never appears when using the Nvidia driver (and setting WaylandEnable=false fixes it)" [High,Confirmed]
<andyrock> if the bug if fix-released for every target and you tag rls-xx-incoming
<andyrock> the bug will not be added to the list
<seb128> willcooke, +1 to accept, Laney redirected zyga to upstream earlier
<andyrock> I think this would be useful to target as rls-bug something we want to sru
<Laney> dunno that the first follows on from the second
<willcooke> Seems like an important one to fix, so I'd be +1
<didrocks> I need to find if that's the same bug I raised a cycle ago upstream
<willcooke> so do we pass that one for now?
<seb128> I vote +1 to nominate it
<seb128> dunno about others
<didrocks> no, that was a different bug
<seb128> it seems an important issue, especially as we get closer from the next LTS
<didrocks> +1 for me
<willcooke> ok, done
<seb128> Laney, you hinted zyga toward upstream, can you maybe own it? you also have some gdm experience
<Laney> shrug
<seb128> the other one would probably be Trevinho who is quite loaded with other bugs atm
<Laney> guess so
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/duplicity/+bug/1440372
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1440372 in duplicity (Ubuntu) "please port duplicity to Python3" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> sorry...
<seb128> thx!
<seb128> willcooke, +1 to accept, I can own it
<Laney> I was helping to triage, don't like that this leads to owning in the end
<Laney> but maybe it makes separate sense
<seb128> Laney, I was going to ask you anyway, I put that on my notes yesterday
<seb128> so don't feel like the triaging help is what hinted the outcome
<seb128> I think we have you and, Trevinho basically who understand gdm's code atm
<seb128> and Trevinho is too busy
 * Laney isn't busy?
<seb128> too
<Laney> anyway, seems fine
<seb128> well, I try to balance
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/1801383
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1801383 in linux (Ubuntu) "the WifiSyslog apport hook (used in firefox/tb) includes SSID informations" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> oSoMoN, you did the ffox part for that ^
<oSoMoN> that one is for me
<willcooke> for tbird too?
<oSoMoN> yes
<seb128> thxc oSoMoN
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> ok, afaict thats it for us
<jibel> there is bug 1826844 I'd like to have fixed
<ubot5`> bug 1826844 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "nvidia-drivers-* are not on the ISO" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826844
<jibel> it's a matter of adding them to ship-live but I'd like to sure there is no issue with the license
<willcooke> jibel, you want me to work on the licensing question?
<jibel> willcooke, if you want, sure
<seb128> trello card material rather than rls bug?
<jibel> they would be on the pool of the iso not in the squashfs
<jibel> k, I'll add a card too
<willcooke> yeah, +1 for trello
<willcooke> and to untag
<jibel> can I have both
<jibel> ? :)
<jibel> I love bugs
<willcooke> you can, but should you?
<willcooke> all Im talking about here is untagging it from e
<willcooke> the bug can and should still exist
<jibel> target it
<seb128> well we don't even know if it's valid
<seb128> until we resolve the license question
<willcooke> not sure about this one, doesnt seem like a release blocker to me
<willcooke> it's been broken for ages
<willcooke> I totally think we should fix it though
<seb128> I don't know enough to understand how new the issue is and if it's a regression and when it started
<seb128> yeah, same
<Laney> not everything has to be a release bug
<Laney> NEXTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
<seb128> I would vote -1 for rls
<willcooke> that ^
<seb128> assign + trello
<seb128> imho
<willcooke> I'm taking it
<willcooke> Right, I propose that's the end of the bugs
<willcooke> seb128, did I miss anything
<seb128> not that I can see
<willcooke> ok
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-04-30 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> I have a topic
<willcooke> More bugs!!!
<seb128> btw bdmurray replied, he's doing the changes to get the rls-ee reports
<willcooke> woot
<seb128> :)
<seb128> more bugs? :-
<seb128> :-(
<willcooke> So, off the back of the OEM meetings last week we will have some more bugs coming our way via the OEM team
<willcooke> at the moment, I meet with the OEM team once every two weeks.  Thats been going fine, but can be a bottle neck and the bus factor
<willcooke> so as well as that meeting, they will also start tagging bugs that they think are important
<willcooke> I think we should do the same process as for rls bugs
<willcooke> so next week, or maybe the week after, I'll add a new section to the meeting where we can look at the OEM bugs and assign them as needed
<Trevinho> can't just they use the same tagging and assign to oem project too?
<seb128> ?
<seb128> I don't understand, I though we asked them to use the rls-nn-incoming process a while ago when we discussed oem bugs
<seb128> wouldn't it make more sense to just use the same process rather than inventing a new one?
<willcooke> quite possibly
<willcooke> I'm going to do a few dummy runs with them, so I'll try and do it with rls bugs as normal and see how it goes
<didrocks> shouldn't there be a way to know it's coming from oem?
<didrocks> (so maybe an additional tag + rls- ones)
<didrocks> or oem-priority
<Trevinho> yeah indeed adding the oem project or a tag and then underline it in the rls page would be nice
<willcooke> ok, lets try that and see how it goes, we can tweak as we go
<seb128> oem has way to let us know
<seb128> description
<seb128> oem-priority
<seb128> comments
<seb128> I don't think that's going to be a problem
<seb128> but yeah, let's iterate and see if we have practical issues
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> good
<willcooke> ok, that's all I got for now
<willcooke> Anyone else?
<seb128> not really
<willcooke> going once
<seb128> I wonder if we should start gettting organized for next cycle
<seb128> but that's probably good via email/next meeting
<willcooke> seb128, yeah you and I should talk this week
<willcooke> I was planning to do it in the meeting on Weds, but...
<seb128> I did email my team asking people to start thinking about that
<willcooke> so Thursday will have to be the day
<seb128> and try to deal with SRU/look at tech debt and how to reduce it meanwhile
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> sry :)
<kenvandine> +1
<willcooke> we picked up some small work from Taipei, nothing major
<seb128> worker day, celebrated by not working! :)
<willcooke> typical French
<willcooke> XD
<willcooke> ok, lets wrap.
<willcooke> longest meeting ever
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 14:21:01 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-04-30-13.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<Trevinho> thanks
<didrocks> thx
<oSoMoN> thanks
<andyrock> thx! and thx again for everything!
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> thanks andyrock, don't be a stranger
<andyrock> sure! :D
<oSoMoN> doko, tdaitx: why is there a fonts-liberation2 task on bug #1814133 ?
<ubot5`> bug 1814133 in virtualbox-hwe (Ubuntu Cosmic) "update to openjdk 11 in 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814133
<seb128> trevinho, could you look at bug #1826797?
<ubot5`> bug 1826797 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] gnome-shell crashes if booted with the monitor off ["JS ERROR: TypeError: monitor is null" from _updateContentScale@resource:///org/gnome/shell/ui/magnifier.js:174:9]" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826797
<tdaitx> oSoMoN: because it was one of the packages we updated, probably libreoffice
<tdaitx> *probably a dependency of libreoffice
<oSoMoN> tdaitx, libreoffice and libreoffice-common both recommend fonts-liberation2, but that doesn't imply that fonts-liberation2 should be rebuilt, right?
<tdaitx> oSoMoN: I don't know, I haven't look into that (doko worked on those packages), bionic had fonts-liberation2 2.00.1-5 and it was updated to 2.00.1-7~18.04.2 during the transition
<oSoMoN> it was apparently only a no-change upload targetting the security pocket
<oSoMoN> tdaitx, do you know why there are cosmic tasks for some of the packages in that bug report?
<tdaitx> oSoMoN: because we had to update packages on Cosmic as well, since a few versions on bionic ended up being higher than cosmic
<tdaitx> and when the approval to -proposed happens a task is created for each "bug fixed" in the changelog for that release
<oSoMoN> ack, that makes sense
<oSoMoN> that's not the case for fonts-liberation2 though, cosmic already had 2.00.1-7
<tdaitx> oSoMoN: oh, you are asking about the cosmic task for fonts-liberation2, weird, it should not have that... in fact, since the changelog does not mention 1814133 it shouldn't be there at all
<oSoMoN> yeah
<tdaitx> oSoMoN: feel free to remove it and any other tasks that are not mentioned on the changelog, specially for cosmic tasks
<tdaitx> I will run through that bug again later on this week to make sure it is sane
<Trevinho> seb128: ok looking that too
<seb128> trevinho, thx, seems an issue with one of your PRs
<Trevinho> yep
<oSoMoN> tdaitx, ok, will do (at least for fonts-liberation2)
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> good night all, see ya on Thursday
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-01
<willcooke> o/
<willcooke> Blargh.  Jet lag is back, plus I have a head cold.  Might keep a low profile this morning
<duflu> Hi willcooke. <something> morning then
<willcooke> :D
<duflu> You almost made morning in Australia, which is obviously wrong
<duflu> Although right given that was your previous timezone
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> Its going to be a quiet day today anyway I think, public hol in much of Europe
<duflu> That's good. I need to duck out in a while anyway
<duflu> Damn. We released a gstreamer1.0-vaapi that doesn't work in Xorg for Intel GPUs
<duflu> It worked the last time I tested it before release
<duflu> Obviously not recently enough
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> I didnt notice, shows how much I use that then
<duflu> I use 'mpv' if I need to play a video now. Although even when totem is working it's still not smooth. I suspect when more smoothness fixes have landed in mutter I'll be able to backport some to legacy clutter to help totem
<willcooke> is there a fix for gstreamer1.0-vaapi?
<duflu> Not that I know of. Although that package seems to work fine via gst-play-1.0 so I am not sure that is the right package
<duflu> I also don't remember all the related parameters to gst-play-1.0 to answer that question better right now
<willcooke> np
<duflu> I forgot how much I hate gstreamer
<duflu> But I am finding some answers
<marcustomlinson> morning duflu willcooke
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<willcooke> hi marcustomlinson
<Laney> yeehaw
<marcustomlinson> howdy Laney!
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson
<Laney> how you getting on?
<marcustomlinson> Yeah alright thanks, getting the hang of the release processes. LibreOffice is a bit of a beast so a decent project to learn from
<marcustomlinson> Just a bit of a beast though :P I realise there are much worse
<Laney> yes it is /o\
<willcooke> marcustomlinson, Laney:  I'm under the weather today so will be afk a bit.  (In bed with my laptop atm.)
<Laney> as you were
<Laney> (netflix?)
<Laney> FFS that update-manager stealing focus thing just happened again
<duflu> Morning Laney
<marcustomlinson> get better willcooke
<Laney> ð duflu
<Laney> I wonder if the Android list of emoji aliases is free software
<Laney> would be good to feed that to Characters
<duflu> In the future there will be no letters
<erGoline> Hi! I'm trying Wayland on Ubuntu, it works fine but I'm getting a strange bug: some installed apps are not present in the applications drawer and are not even displayed in the search too. Any help, please?
<duflu> erGoline, does the problem happen with any built-in apps or just some you installed yourself?
<erGoline> duflu, I detected the problem with some apps installed by myself, I don't know if this hits other system apps
<erGoline>  This apply to random apps, for example Telegram Desktop or Sublime Text (but Sublime Merge is here with no problems). I noticed that even the terminal "subl" command is missing, so probably is a path problem.
<erGoline> duflu, I don't know if it could be related, but I use zsh
<duflu> Maybe ignore the terminal shell. Focus on the graphical shell only
<duflu> Although... is the problem applicable to snaps only?
<duflu> Or do you see it with apps installed as debs too?
<erGoline> I point out the shell because I cannot find Sublime Text in the drawer *and* subl, the related terminal command
<duflu> Sounds like some kind of snap mount is missing
 * duflu doesn't know about such things
<duflu> jamesh, ?
<jamesh> erGoline: first things first: if you open a shell and type "echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS", does it show /var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications ?
<erGoline> The two missing apps have beeen installed via Gnome Software (with snap)
<jamesh> in the overall list of directories
<erGoline> jamesh, empty!
<Laney> snapd needs a user environment generator - the environment setup doesn't work in all cases currently
<jamesh> erGoline: that is surprising: it should be set when you log in.
<jamesh> erGoline: is there anything unusual about your setup?  Different user shell, customised method of starting the desktop, etc?
<duflu> jamesh, zsh
<jamesh> snapd relies on a file in /etc/profile.d being sourced during login to add to XDG_DATA_DIRS.  I guess either the default zshrc isn't doing that, or a user zshrc is overriding whatever does that?
<erGoline> jamesh, I use zsh, nothing fancy, all installed in the standard way
<erGoline> jamesh, I think yo are right, someone is having a similar problem: https://github.com/Sarcasm/zuko
<jamesh> erGoline: yep.  Just checked the bug list and found https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1775340 (with close to a year of inactivity)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1775340 in snapd "Make snapd zsh aware" [Medium,Triaged]
<duflu> Also bug 1640514
<ubot5`> bug 1640514 in snapd (Ubuntu Xenial) "/snap/bin is not added to the PATH when using zsh" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1640514
<duflu> erGoline, I think that's a conclusion for now. Please subscribe to the above two bugs
<erGoline> Ok thanks!
<duflu> Sorry it's not a fix. But we at least found the right pages for the problem :)
<jamesh> Laney: would a systemd environment generator actually help for processes not started by the user systemd instance?
<jamesh> (e.g. gnome-shell?)
<erGoline> duflu, yes this is the right path, I'm going to investigate, thank you again :)
<jamesh> or is this something that will help once everything is started by systemd? :-)
<jamesh> erGoline: one other thing to check: is /snap/bin on $PATH in your shell?
<jamesh> if so, it might indicate /usr/lib/environment.d/990-snapd.conf is being applied even though the /etc/profile.d bits are ignored
<erGoline> jamesh, duflu, this solution solves the problem :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1640514/comments/18
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1640514 in snapd (Ubuntu Xenial) "/snap/bin is not added to the PATH when using zsh" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<erGoline> jamesh, yes, /snap/bin is in the $PATH
<jamesh> okay, so that's an environment.d based solution again.  Good
<jamesh> (not zsh specific)
<Laney> jamesh: it works, but I can't remember exactly why; maybe gnome-session retrieves the environment from logind or similar
<jamesh> Laney: that sounds familiar, yeah.
<Laney> sorry for the delay, my desktop locked up
<Laney> May 01 10:25:06 raleigh.local kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at 000000040001f38a
<Laney> May 01 10:25:06 raleigh.local kernel: #PF error: [normal kernel read fault]
<jamesh> Laney: the bit I remembered was /etc/X11/Xsession.d/95dbus_update-activation-env, but that's doing the opposite: stuffing a snapshot of the env into dbus/systemd
<jamesh> maybe pam_systemd is doing the environment setup?
<Laney> don't think it's that, because it does not work for VT sessions
<Laney> annoyingly
<jamesh> maybe something is doing roughly the equivalent of "export $(systemctl --user show-environment)" somewhere
<Laney> yup
<Laney> environment handling is one of the rough parts of the 'user' concept I think
<Laney> like how I SSH to my laptop and things like the GPG agent happen inside the GNOME session rather than the SSH session
<jamesh> no one runs an ssh daemon on a desktop system though :-)
<Laney> ð
<jamesh> erGoline: I'll see if I can push that environment.d thing upstream for snapd.  You shouldn't need any user specific hacks just because you changed the default shell.
<erGoline> jamesh, thanks!
<Laney> might want to look at what flatpak's done
<Laney> they've got it in a few different places, but each time checking to not add dupes, basically
<erGoline> Some suggestion on the best gesture manager? I'm checking https://gitlab.com/cunidev/gestures
<Laney> Trevinho: mutter/shell srus uploaded, a couple of bugs in there need SRUifying though
<Laney> bug #1813716 has tasks for shell - should they be deleted?
<ubot5`> bug 1813716 in mutter (Ubuntu Eoan) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_x11_display_get_xdisplay â detach_pixmap â meta_surface_actor_x11_dispose â g_object_unref â ObjectInstance â â release_native_object" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813716
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-02
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, bien et toi?
<didrocks> bien bien :)
<jibel> hi all
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel
<marcustomlinson> didrocks: little early for a response there :P good morning
<didrocks> heh, good morning marcustomlinson :)
<duflu> Also good morning didrocks, oSoMoN, jibel, marcustomlinson, seb128
<seb128> hey duflu & desktopers
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> A bit delayed. I just went to the physio, hopefully for the last time
<duflu> The people are lovely but it's a service you hope to not need
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> morning o/
<seb128> duflu, your back still?
<seb128> lut oSoMoN didrocks, en forme ? vous avez passÃ© un bon jour off?
<duflu> seb128, yes, getting better over the long term
<oSoMoN> seb128, nickel, jâai passÃ© la journÃ©e dehors. et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, pareil, tour Ã  la brocante le matin, bon repas Ã  midi et ballade en nature et parc de jeux l'aprÃ¨s midi :)
<seb128> duflu, k, well that's postive at least
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va aussi :)
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> ahoy didrocks seb128
<Laney> yeah good, just been to vote in the local elections!
<Laney> have a good day off?
<duflu> lo Laney
<oSoMoN> yo Laney
<didrocks> was nice, yeah, thanks! Was yesterday quiet?
<seb128> weather was still nice so that was good, supposed to be changing today
<Laney> hey duflu oSoMoN
<Laney> was quite quiet, willcooke was afk too
<duflu> Yes Will was jetlagged and with the flu I think
<seb128> he sent an email this morning saying he's still feeling sick and going to be off today
<seb128> he cancelled his meetings for the day
<Laney> ;_;
<duflu> seb128, not terribly important but if you get any time could you please help to progress https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+git/mutter/+merge/364362 for a bionic SRU?
<seb128> duflu, I can nudge Trevinho in the right direction :)
<duflu> Also I don't want to bother Marco either
<duflu> he is very SRU busy
 * duflu wonders when his current time zone overlaps
<seb128> yeah, he's busy, but he's the one maintaining those packages now
<seb128> we just got the previous SRU through, so might be a good time to start thinking about the next one
<seb128> I need to check with Marco what he has on his plates atmt though
<duflu> seb128, I have also resolved the issues that blocked the performance patching last cycle. So we could do it in eoan though I am also cautious about upstream waking up again any time and requesting more changes
<seb128> yeah, ideally they would merge those this cycle
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: have you looked at the trace-exec output of the firefox snap?
<kenvandine>   1.211s /usr/bin/cut
<kenvandine>   1.386s /usr/bin/xdg-settings
<kenvandine> the only place where there's a cut in desktop-launch is the output of getent
<kenvandine> so must be somewhere else
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I'm lacking context, did I miss earlier messages?
<oSoMoN> is there some report/post about the firefox snap being slow to start?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: no...
<kenvandine> i just looked at the trace-exec output and those looked weird
<kenvandine> it's not the slowest thing though :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: in particular a 1.2s cut seems very weird
<oSoMoN> indeed
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, is that consistent across launches?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, it's gotta be somewhere else, particularly if other snaps using the desktop helpers don't exhibit that problem
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> maybe a firefox script
<oSoMoN> I did a quick grep through the snap and didn't find any script calling cut
<Trevinho> morning
<seb128> hey trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> hi seb128, all good... Had a nice free labour day. You?
<seb128> trevinho, same, weather was still nice, it's quite raining now today!
<oSoMoN> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-03
<duflu> That's odd. 14.04.6 is now past end of life. But it's suggested 14.04 is supported to 2022. For that to be true it sounds like a 14.04.7+ release would need to exist...?
<tjaalton> it's ESM
<duflu> OK, yeah. Differing levels of support explains it
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Morning all
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<didrocks> joyeux vendredi :)
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, joyeux vendredi Ã  toi :)
<duflu> Morning didrocks, jibel and oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> jibel, I think you found the #1 Nvidia bug that nobody is talking about yet
<duflu> But I knew it was becoming popular so put it in Trello
<duflu> I also looked at fixing it this week briefly, until I realised the supplied "fix" is only a guess/workaround
<duflu> So it's less trivial than I thought
<jibel> duflu, which bug?
<duflu> jibel, bug 1827466
<ubot5`> bug 1809407 in mutter (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1827466 [nvidia] Corrupted wallpaper after resuming from suspend" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1809407
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, joyeux vendredi ! en forme ?
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good friday so far?
<duflu> seb128, yes it's going OK. Thanks for reminding me though. I need to be careful to not start or see anything that could ruin the evening and weekend :)
<duflu> How are you seb128?
<seb128> I'm good thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128 didrocks duflu
<marcustomlinson> happy friday
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
<didrocks> seb128: en forme, oui, et toi ?
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> en forme :)
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> marcustomlinson, how is it going for you? you seem quite busy with libreoffice :)
<marcustomlinson> "en forme" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMdNcvCJo&feature=youtu.be&t=12
<marcustomlinson> seb128: yeah I think I have a decent grasp on libreoffice now. Working on the gnome build-snap now, getting "somewhere"...
<seb128> ah, nice
<seb128> oSoMoN, marcustomlinson, bug #1827451 might be one to consider to SRU in not too long since the Japan era change is in action now
<ubot5`> bug 1827451 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Japanese new era "Reiwa(ä»¤å)" support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827451
<seb128> (unsure how much/in what context it's being used though, probably minor/a side function|integration for libreoffice)
<seb128> but for sure worth including those patches in the next SRU rounds
<duflu> Also known as the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia
<duflu> Ignore that statement if you find it confusing
<marcustomlinson> :P
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, note that there's no upcoming upstream release for a bionic SRU as the 6.0 line is EOL
<oSoMoN> so we can prepare a SRU just for that one patch
<seb128> oSoMoN, well we might want to SRU patches, like those :)
<oSoMoN> yes, definitely
<marcustomlinson> ok I'll add it to my todo
<oSoMoN> not sure in what context it's used either, it might be minor or maybe completely essential for Japanese users, it'd be interesting to find out in order to set an importance on the bug
<seb128> in any case even if it's quite minor I think it's the sort of change we want to see in the LTS
<oSoMoN> yes, absolutely
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, note that we also want to backport patches/java.vendor-Debian.diff and patches/java.vendor-Ubuntu.patch to bionic, in prevision for a future openjdk SRU
<marcustomlinson> ok thanks for the heads up
<Laney> yo
<oSoMoN> yo Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> didrocks, you have a bit of japanese culture, any idea where the era is being used/displayed? is that in standard calendars instead of using e.g 2019?
<didrocks> seb128: it's a good question. I have seen it on monuments (and IIRC they put it in the "happy new year" signs), but I don't really know on calendars and such. The year is reset (like, we are the 03/05 of the new era)
<didrocks> 03/05 of year 1 of the new era
<didrocks> more precisely
<Laney> hey oSoMoN seb128 duflu
<Laney> yeah doing alright thanks, looking forward to the long weekend though :>
<Laney> you?
<oSoMoN> looking forward to a sunny week-end, if not a long one :)
<Laney> you lucky thing
<oSoMoN> well it's currently raining quite heavily, but I'm driving southward tonight in search for a warmer climate
<Laney> monday morning: <oSoMoN> hi from Kenya
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> Trevin_ho style
<Laney> actually... https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/184745
<Laney> can probably do better than that :>
<duflu> Yeah keep in mind the southern hemisphere is nearing winter
<duflu> Thought that's 2 months away
<duflu> *Though
<seb128> Laney, looking forward the w.e, even if it's not long :)
<seb128> didrocks, thx
<Laney> you guys had that day already :P
<seb128> Laney, how did the protest go yesterday?
<seb128> right :)
<Laney> yeah alright, gave out my stack of leaflets
<Laney> everyone was friendly
<seb128> no rain?
<Laney> nothing too bad
<Laney> that came later on
<seb128> sounds like it went as well as it could have then :)
<Laney> yeah, fingers crossed!
<didrocks> hey Laney ;)
<Laney> ããã«ã¡ã¯ didrocks!
<didrocks> I can still read some hiragana \o/
<Laney> :>
<erGoline> Hi! I'm setting up ubuntu on a Matebook x pro and I have a couple of problems with the touchpad. First one: on xorg the palm reaject does not work, if I'm typing and hit the touchpad a click is registered (on Wayland it is ok). Two: if i do a phisical click with the thumb the cursor move randomly a bit because the (fat) finger generates a fake micro movement. Any solutions, please?
<duflu> erGoline, those both sound like libinput issues. Please open a bug by running 'ubuntu-bug libinput' and also open a bug upstream at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/groups/libinput/-/issues
<pieq> that was fast...
<pieq> oh.
<duflu> erGoline, those both sound like libinput issues. Please open a bug by running 'ubuntu-bug libinput' and also open a bug upstream at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/groups/libinput/-/issues
<erGoline> Ops, re :)
<erGoline> hi duflu, you are always present and helpful, thanks :)
<duflu> I don't think either of those are true, but you're welcome :)
<duflu> Those are the kind of bugs libinput has to fix for each model of touchpad all the time
<duflu> Curious though, that we never needed such fixes with the synaptics driver
<duflu> Or did we? Users had 'synclient' to play with
<duflu> Makes me think there's something fundamentally wrong with the way libinput choses defaults
<erGoline> duflu, uhm... checking the xorg conf I'm using the synaptics driver
<duflu> Hah
<duflu> erGoline, in that case all the tweaks you need are via the 'synclient' command
<erGoline> but... I have installed some libinput stuff, perhaps they confict?
<duflu> Once you find the settings you like you can make them permanent by adding the command to 'gnome-session-properties'
<duflu> erGoline, sounds like you need to log a bug to Ubuntu regardless. Please open a bug and attach your Xorg log files as well as the xorg.conf
<erGoline> ok!
<duflu> If you want to be sure you are using libinput then just try logging into 'Ubuntu on Wayland'
<erGoline> (sorry for the disconnect loop, I have a "No ping reply" issue today...)
<duflu> ð 
<duflu> ð¡
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128, I'm thinking that bug #1823722 may motivate a langpack update for disco (i.e. if it can be done without testing by the translators teams like it was done for 18.04.1). Thoughts? Do you know when Åukasz is back?
<ubot5`> bug 1823722 in mutter (Ubuntu Disco) "keyboard shortcuts are displayed not translated" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823722
<Trevinho> morning!
<Trevinho> Laney: hey, can you please check the bionic SRUs for shell and mutter?
<Trevinho> I didn't merge in mine Daniel one but I guess you can do that
<seb128> hey trevinho
<Trevinho> seb128: morning
<Trevinho> how are things?
<oSoMoN> Â¡buenos dÃ­as TreviÃ±o!
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: hola... Buenos dÃ­as a ti!
<Trevinho> Buena tarde ya...
<oSoMoN> yeah, almost EOW here
<Laney> hi Trevinho, probably not today, busy with other stuff, sorry
<Laney> can do next week tho
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, ok no worries...
<Trevinho> Laney: want me to merge Daniel's thing too=?
<Laney> sure
<Laney> merci!
 * oSoMoN goes south, have a good week-end everyone!
<didrocks> even more south? How could it be :p
<didrocks> time for week-end here as well :)
<seb128> k, enough for now, have a nice w.e desktopers!
<marcustomlinson> cheerio
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-04
<sarnold> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1548973
<ubot5`> Mozilla bug 1548973 in Add-ons Manager "All extensions disabled due to expiration of intermediate signing cert" [Blocker,New]
<erGoline> Hola :)
<erGoline> Which is the corret way to overwrite the default system shortcuts that are not included in the standard shortcuts preferences (es. forward word move)?
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-05
<JanC> seems like there are quite a bit of issues with gnome shell extensions breaking gnome shell after upgrades, and Gnome Shell just crashes instead of doing something sensible...  :-/
<JanC> (and gnome shell crashing on login means people end up with a login loop, which is hard to fix for laypeople)
<tomreyn> hey desktoppers, it'd be great to see some form of action plan / strategy discussed on how / whether Ubuntu will handle bug 1827727
<ubot5`> bug 1827727 in Mozilla Firefox "All plugins disabled due to expired cert" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827727
<tomreyn> we have workarounds, one of which uses a remote software update mechanism which IMO should not exist in Ubuntu .debs (at least), may require user intervention and does not work reliably, and others which mozilla explicitly asks not to be used since they can interfere with the other approaches. and we have upstream 66.0.4 now. there's no fixed snap, yet (but I would not consider such a fix anyways, not for apt installations).
<tomreyn> (i'm assuming this will not be handled by the security team)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-27
<callmepk> Morning
<tangarora> 20.04 seems buggy with NVidia. I cant put my finger on it, but I had to reinstall eventually after setting the NV to be on demand in the control center... It worked great for a while, the screen artifacts, the blangk... 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Monday!
<didrocks> good morning
<callmepk> good morning oSoMoN didrocks 
<didrocks> hey callmepk 
<oSoMoN> hey callmepk, salut didrocks 
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, bon week-end ?
<oSoMoN> oui, et toi?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, mais Ã§a commence Ã  devenir longuet pour Ãªtre honnÃªte :)
<oSoMoN> oui, faudrait pas que Ã§a sâÃ©terniseâ¦
<jibel> hi world
<didrocks> salut jibel 
<jibel> Salut didrocks, tu vas bien?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va, vivement quâon puisse se projeter dans quelques semaines, mais Ã§a va :) et toi ?
<jibel> didrocks, il commence Ã  y avoir des orniÃ¨res dans le carrelage Ã  force de tourner en rond.
<jibel> mais sinon Ã§a peut aller
<didrocks> fais gaffe Ã  ne pas passer au tavers du plancher
<jibel> :)
<oSoMoN> salut jibel 
<jibel> bonjour oSoMoN 
<marcustomlinson> morning callmepk oSoMoN didrocks jibel
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson 
<seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN, jibel, vous avez passÃ© un bon w.e?
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<jibel> Salut seb128, le w-e est passÃ©, en attendant le prochain
<Laney> moin
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128 and Laney
<marcustomlinson> seb128: doing ok for a Monday :P you?
<oSoMoN> hey Laney 
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson & oSoMoN 
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<seb128> I'm good :)
<Laney> moin didrocks & seb128 
<ricotz> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey ricq
<marcustomlinson> whoops
<marcustomlinson> hey ricotz
<cpaelzer> hi Desktop people
<cpaelzer> I'd need your guidance on a discussion about appindicator / ayatana
<cpaelzer> for years we have had our virt-manager recommend gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1
<cpaelzer> but now I was made aware that this is more or less dead https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=895037
<ubot5> Debian bug 895037 in src:libappindicator "libappindicator: deprecated in Debian; AppIndicator based applications, please switch to Ayatana (App)Indicator(s)" [Serious,Open]
<cpaelzer> gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1 is still in main in focal, so I guess I'm fine for now
<cpaelzer> but should - going forward I switch to ayatana - is that fully integrated and default in our desktop?
<seb128> hey ricotz cpaelzer
<cpaelzer> seb128: didrocks: (not sure who to ping, so I ping the most active people I know around here) ^^
<seb128> cpaelzer, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [High,Invalid]
<didrocks> yeah, long story there :)
<didrocks> (and hey cpaelzer, ricotz)
<seb128> cpaelzer, the ayatana packages are semi-hostile forks that were not needed and which were made incompatible with no real need to be, we have no seen evidence they are better quality or worth the effort to switch at this point
<cpaelzer> seb128: ok, so for now I can answer (on a debian discussion) that for now we will stick to  gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1 then?
<seb128> for Ubuntu yes, the people doing indicator in Debian seem to have decided they favor the ayatana variants
<seb128> (but that's a side effort in Debian and most lead by the guy who forked/created ayatana)
<ackk> oSoMoN, hi, do you know if bluejeans is supposed to work with chromium (snap)?
<ackk> I could never get it to work, while it seems to be working with chrome
<cpaelzer> ok seb128 that is fine, thank you a lot
<oSoMoN> ackk, it works for me as an attendee, not sure about using bluejeans to present though
<ackk> oSoMoN, oh, I never could use it even as attendee
<ackk> oSoMoN, always tells me I have to install flash
<ackk> oSoMoN, do you have flash installed?
<ackk> (can believe I'm saying this in 2020)
<ackk> *can't
<oSoMoN> yeah, flash will be dead and gone by the end of the year, finallyâ¦ in the meantime, you can use this to get it working in the snap: https://git.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/+git/snappy-packaging/commit/?id=04e7a9c9d452437b8540dc50e6d87092f3ea4af2
<seb128> cpaelzer, np!
<ackk> oSoMoN, oh I see, so bluejeans does still require flash with chrome/ium
<Laney> /o\
<ackk> oSoMoN, oddly the html5 video test they have on their website does work fine with chrommium
<ackk> oSoMoN, worked now with flash, thanks
<GunnarHj> Good morning (well..) seb128! Did you see my ping from this upstream IBus issue?
<GunnarHj> https://github.com/ibus/ibus/issues/2163
<GunnarHj> Your input as regards what to do in Ubuntu going forward would be appreciated.
<gitbot> ibus issue 2163 in ibus "Remapping CTRL+SHIFT+U doesn't unbind original keybind" [Closed]
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I saw the email but post W.E/release backlog is busy, I will try to have a comment later
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sure, no urgency AFAICT.
<seb128> tseliot, hey, could you add bug #1874567 to your backlog of bugs to look at? it seems quite popular
<ubot5> bug 1874567 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-440 (Ubuntu) "Secondary (rotated) monitor configuration is not applied correctly in gnome settings" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874567
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hey marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> hello hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hey there didrocks 
<jibel> xnox, from a syslog, do you know how to know if a machine has been booted in UEFI or Legacy?
<ogra> hey ... after doing a 16.04->18.04 upgrade, immediately followed by an 18.04->20.04 one ,i end up with a pretty messed up desktop https://imgur.com/a/z8jDqUB ... there are also font issues (violet blocks across characters) ... and things like alt-tab do not work at all
<ogra> i assume it is some setting in my homedir ... any idea what i could try to remove there ?
<ogra> seems drag and drop also doesnt work
<ogra> ... at least from/to desktop
<ogra> sigh and i'm bombed with online-account popups to an extend that working is impossible 
<ogra> (yet the online accounts are properly set up, i even deleted them and added them anew)
<xnox> jibel:  in sessions, not now
<xnox|sessions> jibel:  grep for "efivars" ? Apr 27 12:58:27 ottawa kernel: Registered efivars operations
<seb128> ogra, can you share your journalctl log? the image looks like a kernel/video driver issue ... could you screenshot the online account prompt?
<ogra> seb128, note that i have been running from USB key for a week now ... the fresh install on the USB key doesnt expose any such issues ... it is only the upgraded internal install that does ... i'll push my jounral somewhere ... 
<ogra> the popup prompt looks like an evolution one (but seems to pop up when the panel clock tries to sync even if evo was never started after a reboot)
<ogra> here is my journal https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fJwsRCT2yg/
<ogra> err
 * ogra sees the kernel cmdline in there and wonders where all these i915 options come from !
<ogra> i guess thats the issue :D
<ogra> lol, sorry
<seb128> ogra, likely for the video corruption yes ... old local hacked parameters to workaround issues?
<ogra> yeah ... 16.04 crap
<seb128> ogra, the journal also suggests you have buggy extensions
<seb128> Apr 27 16:52:52 acheron gnome-shell[5128]: Usage of object.actor is deprecated for CalendarMessageList
<seb128>                                            get@resource:///org/gnome/shell/ui/environment.js:287:29
<seb128>                                            right@/home/ogra/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions/notification-banner-position@Selenium-H/extension.js:24:2
<ogra> yes, one of them (i think the one remvoving the meters of padding between the systray icons) 
<seb128> well unsure if they are problematic for your notifications, but might be worth turning them off
<ogra> oh, the positional one ... yeah
<ogra> well, it works despite the error, i have seen it on the usb install too 
<ogra> didnt seem to have any ill effects apart from spamming the log
 * ogra reboots with fixed grub
<ogra> hrm .. editing /etc/default/grub and running update-grub doesnt seem to have any effect :/
<ogra> the options still stick in there 
<ogra> hmm, okay ... options gone but still messed up wallpaper
<Laney> seb128: do you know if there's an action to mir libinih recorded somewhere?
<ogra> okay ... recursively unsetting all gsettings got me rolling 
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 3badf8b Olivier Tilloy debian/ changelog patches/series patches/0032-online-accounts-maybe-leak-a-reference-to-the-panel.patch * https://deb.li/bHr2
<KGB-0> debian/patches/0032-online-accounts-maybe-leak-a-reference-to-the-panel.patch: maybe leak a reference to the panel, to prevent a crash (LP: #1862553)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1862553 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in cc_panel_get_title_widget()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862553
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-28
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<callmepk> Hi duflu 
<duflu> RAOF, looks like the open thread can be closed?... https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/4294
<RAOF> Yes. I guess I just need to ping whoever can trigger Marge
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> salut oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut jibel 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers!
<callmepk> morning seb128 
<seb128> hey callmepk, how are you?
<didrocks> hey callmepk 
<callmepk> Pretty great, how are you seb128 ?
<callmepk> Hi didrocks , how are you
<seb128> callmepk, I'm good thanks!
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks 
<oSoMoN> hey callmepk 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN  ?
<oSoMoN> bien, et vous?
<seb128> nickel :)
<didrocks> Ã§a va :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, jibel, seb128, didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<jibel> morning duflu 
<didrocks> hey jibel 
<jibel> Salut didrocks 
<didrocks> jibel: FYI: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/7734 & https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y_zKQZJ8_RGYWwvx4k_QmR-PrFhrJUGAhWV-GT0lZRg/edit#heading=h.m922tj82ezp3
<gitbot> openzfs issue 7734 in zfs "Swap deadlock in 0.7.9" [Component: Memory Management, Open]
<jibel> didrocks, yeah, that's good and will solve many problems.
<didrocks> indeed :)
<jibel> didrocks, finally from the logs on ug 1874304
<jibel> bug 1874304
<ubot5> bug 1874304 in zsys (Ubuntu) "grub-probe fails with failed to get canonical path of rpool with ZFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874304
<jibel> didrocks, it is not our fault :)
<jibel> that's the important point 
<jibel> didrocks, my guess is a corrupted rpool
<jibel> and again docker + zfs
<jibel> + some tool that does automated snapshots
<didrocks> jibel: 2 tools for automated snapshots even when I see the list of datasets
<jibel> didrocks, as I suspected the failure happens in grub-mkconfig
<didrocks> provisonning + auto_zfs_something
<jibel> yeah
<didrocks> yeah, itâs very early, so not something "new"
<didrocks> unsure how the pool is corrupted
<didrocks> also, notice the non imported bpool
<jibel> I don't know, zpool status as root would tell, but the hook ran as user
<didrocks> still, the fact that zsysctl times out on 7000 datasets with this structure is annoying
<didrocks> I wonder if getting all datasets and property by zfs get all wouldnât be faster :/
<didrocks> but we need to find something rather than fighting go-libzfs
<jibel> yup yup
<didrocks> $ time zfs get all
<didrocks> real 0m0,960s
<didrocks> user 0m0,087s
<didrocks> sys 0m0,818s
<didrocks> $ zfs list -t all | wc -l
<didrocks> 461
<didrocks> on my machine FYI
<didrocks> unsure how long this will be for 7000 datasets
<didrocks> ah, but we still need the zhp handlerâ¦
<didrocks> (at least, we can try experimenting enhancing the timeout handling, see the bug I opened against zsys)
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? did you manage to cut a bit from the work stress with the monday off?
<duflu> seb128, I am OK. I switched off mentally and got home/garden maintenance done, a little. Though looking through the bug backlog looks like it will take a couple of days. So I am stressed now. Actually less than I expected though
<duflu> How are you, seb128?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good! spent my monday doing bug triaging and thinking about SRUs and co, so I know the feeling
<seb128> duflu, it's nice to see some of the shell&co bugs fixed in git like the alternative keymap one
<duflu> seb128, yeah their priorities are matching the most reported issues in focal
<duflu> Just frustrating how many other bugs only affect one person, and stay open for years
<seb128> right, little we can do there out of just triaging them low and moving to more important problems
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<duflu> marcustomlinson, morning
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, one issue I think our own developers don't understand is that "Nvidia" bugs typically mean Nvidia-only systems. Not hybrid systems
<marcustomlinson> seb128: a little below average today, rough night :/ But alive so there's that
<seb128> duflu, I don't think the issue is understanding, it's access to hardware
<seb128> marcustomlinson, :-( good luck for today then! 
<marcustomlinson> seb128: how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine, thanks
<duflu> Well, it's a recurring issue. Actually probably more often a user misunderstanding. They have an Nvidia sticker on their laptop and they think they're using Nvidia
<seb128> also booting on the nvidia card on an hybrid isn't going to be good enough to trigger those bugs?
<duflu> seb128, there's no such thing
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<duflu> The LCD is always (almost always) only wired to Intel
<Laney> hi ho
<duflu> So the shell uses Intel and not the Nvidia driver
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> jbicha, I would appreciate if you asked here before switching the team tools to new series
<marcustomlinson> hey didrocks and Laney
<seb128> duflu, so it means there is a nvidia gpu but it can't real be used?
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, only as a child of the Intel GPU which owns the real screen
<duflu> Nvidia is allowed to own a window
<seb128> I see
<duflu> or the HDMI port if it's wired to that
<seb128> I didn't know that, useful
<seb128> I will stop trying to borrow my gf hybrid's laptop to try to reproduce nvidia reported issues then
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, do you have an nvidia only system to use for debugging? 
<ricotz> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
<Laney> hey duflu marcustomlinson seb128, doing ok!
<Laney> huh looks like I forgot to press enter on that
<Laney> /o\
<seb128> :-)
<duflu> And I keep forgetting to scroll down, for hours at a time and miss IRC
<duflu> So we're even, in a way
<Laney> there's like 12000 pending tests per arch on autopkgtest at the minute
<Laney> don't think I've ever seen it that high
<seb128> fun
<seb128> nice to see that the new serie started without too much delay this time
<Laney> dok_o didn't want to push any toolchain stuff pre-opening
<seb128> :)
<Laney> so we just got it mostly done on friday, was quite smooth
<seb128> git question of the day
<seb128> is there an easy way than this command to update e.g debian/master when being on another branch?
<seb128> $ git fetch origin debian/master:debian/master
<seb128> (typically I'm on ubuntu/master and want to fetch the update Debian in debian/mater)
<seb128> it's a bit tedious to type but googling failed me to give me something easier
<seb128> (before I was do checkout; pull; checkout)
<Laney> that's the best that I know
<Laney> you could probably set up an alias
<Laney> git config --global alias.pb fetch origin $0:$0 or something
<seb128> thx, I will give it a try
<Laney> ah no, you can't have paremeters like that
<Laney> probably more like !sh -c 'git fetch origin "$0:$0"'
<jibel> didrocks, for disks > 2TB booted in legacy; I force the size of rpool to 2TB - bpool - swap - ESP
<jibel> didrocks, are you okay with that or you prefer to error out?
<didrocks> jibel: will we be able to boot it? I mean, we may not be able to have grub finding the start of the rpool partition, no?
<didrocks> bpool being 2G. swap being 2G potentiallyâ¦
<seb128> Laney, 
<seb128> $ git du debian/master
<seb128> Depuis salsa.debian.org:gnome-team/nautilus
<seb128>    a3a8353..8a38037  debian/master -> debian/master
<seb128> Laney, thx :)
<Laney> nice
<Laney> that's Trevinho level
<seb128> lol
<jibel> didrocks, it'll work but that's a waste. I'm pondering whether a warning in ubiquity wouldn't be better rather than silently working around the limitation by reducing the amount of allocatable disk space
<Trevinho> seb128: hey... I've only a prime system. 
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, we should get you a proper nvidia config...
<seb128> Wimpress, ^ do you think that's something we can get and how?
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, a warning sounds better, because then, weâll get bugs about "I have 10Tb of HDD, how come my rpool is only 1.blopTB?"
<jibel> yes
<didrocks> jibel: reading what docker is doing on ZFS, I wonder if she shouldnât add a patch there (unsure how the snap behaves) to create a persistent /var/lib/docker
<jibel> right, I was thinking the same and it's something we quickly considered when we decided the layout at the very beginning
<didrocks> ok, at least docker rm (but who does docker rm on stopped container?) and docker rmi removes the datasets
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I really think about a hook in the ubuntu package
<didrocks> but I need to look if snap has the same behavior
<didrocks> and in this case, you to hook that in snap installation?
<jibel> didrocks, we should alos ensure that snaps are on a persistent dataset since it's managing it's own history and the first thing snap will do after a revert is to re-update the packages
<didrocks> jibel: the issue is that if you revert, you may expect to have the previous snap version and we would loose this (this is why we put it in system datasets)
<didrocks> but correct after the auto-reupdate of boot
<jibel> didrocks, with snaps we must also consider the data stored in the home directory. eg you do a system revert to a snapshot that had an old version of a snap and the user data in $home for this version of the snap has been purged
<jibel> hardly fixable though
<didrocks> indeed
<duflu> Trevinho, if you can find an old Macbook Air (2010/2011 ish) then I think that's a fairly pure Nvidia-only system. And portable
<Trevinho> ok, will look... not sure I would love to have apples in my flat though xD 
<duflu> No one will see you in your skivvy
<duflu> or turtleneck
<duflu> Trevinho, even the tiny 11 inch one that cimi had is pure Nvidia
<duflu> or the old models anyway
<duflu> Just an idea
 * duflu -> dinner
<jbicha> seb128: ok, are you going to change the version tracker back to focal then?
<seb128> hey desktopers, would you be ok shifting the meeting to be half an hour later to not conflict with the roadmap sessions?
<marcustomlinson> sure
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> we could skip but it's probably good to at least review the ff incoming candidates
<seb128> thx
<seb128> I think we should be able to fit in the half hour
<jibel> works for me
<seb128> jbicha, no, I'm hacking a report for focal, but at this point it's more important than we track stable updates in the LTS
<seb128> so it's a bit unfortunatat that you removed that report in favor of something we are not having real use of yet
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> seb128, works for me
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN 
<hellsworth> team meeting?
<didrocks> hey hellsworth 
<didrocks> hellsworth FYI: 15:01:43          seb128 | hey desktopers, would you be ok shifting the meeting to be half an hour later to not conflict with the roadmap sessions?
<didrocks> you can get another cup of tea/coffee :)
<hellsworth> ah ok thanks
<hellsworth> should have scrolled up :)
<seb128> k, let's do it then :)
<hellsworth> okey dokey..
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 28 14:01:10 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine (out?), laney (out?), marcustomlinson (out), oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> hey
<hellsworth> o/
<Laney> not out
<marcustomlinson> \o
<jibel> hola
<seb128> congrats on focal, feedback is looking good from what I saw
<kenvandine> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> k, let's get started and try to fit in the half an hour
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop there
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1874893
<ubot5> bug 1874893 in xdg-desktop-portal-gtk (Ubuntu) "Shouldn't hardcode gnome-software " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874893
<seb128> kenvandine, looks like yours, please get it assigned to someone for bionic and focal
<seb128> and that's it for bionic
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic: rls-ee-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop there
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1853768 got nominated for 19.10
<ubot5> bug 1853768 in yaru-theme (Ubuntu Eoan) "Qt apps, like kid3-qt, which uses legacy icons "document-*.png", show them as normal document icon under Yaru theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1853768
<seb128> Dmitry unassigned himself in fact because focal is out and he has no interest is still SRUing
<seb128> I think we should wontfix
<Laney> yep
<hellsworth> agree
<seb128> also we should probably wontfix some other assigned items that didn't move
<seb128> I will review the list and talk to people outside the meeting
<seb128> probably not worth SRUing for 19.10 at this point
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> skipping the first which is incompelete
<seb128> bug #1874047 is fixed in .2 and that's going to be a a security update
<ubot5> bug 1874047 in webkit2gtk (Ubuntu) "20.04 - Software Boutique - No Filter drop-down placement" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874047
<seb128> I'm going to rls-ff-notfixing since it's handled by security already
<seb128> bug #1874556 is fix commited, just needs triaging
<ubot5> bug 1874556 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "package libreoffice-common 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/libreoffice/share/basic/Access2Base/Application.xba', which is also in package libreoffice-base 1:6.0.7-0ubuntu0.18.04.10" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874556
<seb128> (and SRU team to wake up)
<Laney> nominate/assign it
<Laney> wants sru template too no?
<seb128> well, the fix is in the queue without bug reference
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/475819279/libreoffice_6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.1_source.changes
<seb128> I don't know if it's worth rejecting/asking for a new upload to add one
<hellsworth> there is an open sru about 6.4.3
<seb128> right
<Laney> the bug referenced doesn't mention testing this scenario
<seb128> right, I mean I don't know if it needs to be formally included in the testing, but probably would be good to confirm it's tested
<seb128> Heather, can you update the bug to be SRU compliant?
<hellsworth> i'll double check that 6.4.3 fixes this
<seb128> and mention it in the test plan from 6.4.3
<seb128> thx
<hellsworth> ok
<seb128> I will accept the nomination
<seb128> bug #1865824
<ubot5> bug 1865824 in fprintd (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 20.04 removes saved fingerprints" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865824
<seb128> Brian raised it up, Marco tagged it so we can discuss as a team
<seb128> my opinion was to -1 it as a rls bug
<seb128> the format changed and a migration isn't trivial
<Trevinho> -1 as well :D
<seb128> it could be done but seeing that we had very few hardware supported and that fingerprint shouldn't be the only auth mechanism it seems low return value
<Trevinho> but should be actually a 0, while team should decide
<seb128> other opinions?
<oSoMoN> this should be mentioned in release notes though
<seb128> it is, see the bug
<Trevinho> also... we were discussing with Ben, that given the image devices will change in future (tm) comparison method, it would probably trigger another incompatibility. And that is for good.
<seb128> 'Due to database format changes fprintd will remove all saved fingerprints, please ensure you have another mechanism for logging in (http://launchpad.net/bugs/1865824). ' on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1865824 in fprintd (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 20.04 removes saved fingerprints" [Low,Confirmed]
<Trevinho> so, if not this LTS the next anywyas
<didrocks> I think we shouldnât plan to break it again as it seems we do though :/
<Laney> seems a bit unprofessional to do it, especially silently
<didrocks> migrating user settings is crucial if we say we are supporting upgrades but thatâs just my opinion
<seb128> wait
<seb128> let's not start with futur potential issue here
<seb128> and focus on the current situation
<Trevinho> sure sure
<seb128> bionic didn't have fprintd pre-installed
<Trevinho> nope
<Trevinho> so not an LTS regression
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, you were speaking about bionic->focal upgrades or responding to Marco's futur plans comment?
<didrocks> so on that one, I would -1 on rls bugging it (but reluctantly :p)
<Laney> that's a dubious line in my opinion
<Laney> like, you can use something before
<Trevinho> yeah indeed was easy to install even in bionic
<Laney> but as soon as *we* bless it, we can break your previous setup and that's ok
<Laney> seems dodgy
<didrocks> just responding to "itâs ok to break it this time and btw, we will rebreak it"
<seb128> Laney, I don't think it's ok
<seb128> I'm just trying to be realistic on the resources we have and how we can spend them 
<seb128> ideally I would like to see the bionic configs migrated as well
<seb128> anyway
<Laney> right, well I don't like the line of justification that's being used
<Trevinho> I can look at how time could be needed...
<seb128> please +1 0 -1
<Trevinho> as per Ben's isn't trivial, but I didn't try with code yet
<seb128> I see, sorry I should probably have avoided to give arguments
<oSoMoN> -1 but let's make sure we communicate clearly why (lack of resources)
<Laney> I would at least try to tell people when they upgrade or reboot after upgrading or something
<seb128> ignore those and let's just vote, I'm happy to be overruled
<Laney> +1 for doing *something* even if not migrating
<seb128> -1 from me for rls nomination
<seb128> I would still add it to lts-wishlist
<didrocks> as said -1 relunctantly, but given the constraintsâ¦
<seb128> k, it's a reject then
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I agree we should try to fix it and will mention that when I comment and tag it for the lts-wishlist 
<Laney> bit of a bad path imho
<Laney> but that's the way of voting
<seb128> right
<seb128> moving on
<seb128> bug #1874091
<ubot5> bug 1874091 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should use ubuntu-drivers and migrate people from nvidia-dkms to l-r-m" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874091
<didrocks> l-r-m?
<seb128> the item there seems more for ubuntu-release-upgrader, it's not even clean what ubuntu-drivers-common change are expected?
<jibel> the report is a bit dry
<seb128> linux-restricted-modules I guess?
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> ah
<jibel> adding a rationale would help to have an opinion
<seb128> I will ask for details of what they expect from ubuntu-drivers
<Laney> I think ubuntu-drivers has all the functionality already
<seb128> good :)
<seb128> k, moving on
<seb128> bug #1874148
<ubot5> bug 1874148 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) ""I wish I knew how to quit you!"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874148
<seb128> that's a known bug/duplicate
<seb128> the quit item on the dock context menu works
<jibel> I like the title
<marcustomlinson> :D
<seb128> would be nice to fix but -1 to rls nominate for me
<seb128> indeed, nice title :)
<didrocks> well, that was a design decision, no?
<seb128> no, it was working in bionic iirc
<Laney> that was a bug
<seb128> we don't have a quit button on the UI by design
<jibel> yes but that was a bug
<didrocks> ah, I thought that was on purpose
<Laney> but it shouldn't show the non working quit
<seb128> but we said the item in the shell should work
<Laney> that is the bug here
<didrocks> ah ok. itâs only on the right click
<Laney> which is probably not rls
<didrocks> ack, got it, sorry
<didrocks> but yeah, not rls for me -1
<seb128> good, notfixing then
<seb128> bug #1869747 is incomplete, skipping
<ubot5> bug 1869747 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Recent changes have caused Xorg to fail to start. Possibly nvidia driver related." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869747
<seb128> bug #1874207
<ubot5> bug 1874207 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Compiler warnings in x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874207
<seb128> Trevinho, one for you?
<Trevinho> yep
<Laney> champagne wtf
<Trevinho> not sure is rls but..
<seb128> Daniel commented on some of the other fractional scalling/nvidia tickets that it has consequence on the behaviour of those bugs
<seb128> like he said the nvidia loosing signal happening randomly for him and is not random anymore when fixing the warning
<seb128> unsure why he just didn't submit a patch though...
<Trevinho> not sure about, need to check, I didn't notice, when compiling locally, but will handle those indeed
<seb128> Laney, and yeah, I'm going to talk to him about the tag use again I think...
<seb128> Trevinho, thx
<seb128> k, that's it for the incoming
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1856410
<ubot5> bug 1856410 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "ubiquity prompts for a MOK password that it then does not use" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1856410
<Laney> oh we get ubiquity bugs now?
<seb128> no, ubuntu-drivers-common ones
<seb128> tseliot, could you look at the request from foundations there?
<seb128> unsure what to do with this one
<seb128> does anyone has an opinion?
<didrocks> opinon: the whole Mok enrolling experience is weird, you donât really know what to do when rebooting
<didrocks> so not the most buggy of the experience IMHO
<hellsworth> opinion: seems like a real problem that should be fixed sooner than later
<hellsworth> nobody should be forced to use secure boot of all things
<Laney> it is a good one for .1
<Laney> if someone has the time
<seb128> I will ask foundations if they plan to work on it
<jibel> +1 for .1, many people install 3rsd party for nvidia and it doesn't require enrollment
<seb128> and maybe Alberto can do the u-d-c changes
<seb128> thx Laney, jibel
<seb128> k, that's it for bugs then
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<tseliot> seb128, it makes sense, and I can make those changes to u-d-c
<seb128> tseliot, thanks!
<seb128> I'm assigning to you then :)
<seb128> ^ I'm taking the opportunity to say that the new 'groovy' serie is open and autosync already started
<seb128> we are not going to review proposed item today, let's wait for the initial hit to settle down
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-04-28 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> any other topic?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<seb128> one note from me
<Trevinho> all clear here
<seb128> I set up an hackish stripped down focal-versions script mostly for GNOME, to make easier to see what SRU to need to do on the LTS
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/focal/desktop-packages.html
<seb128> I will probably make it update once a day which is enough for stable
<seb128> I do plan to clean up the code and put in a branch at some point but meanwhile if you would like some other package to be added or tweaks feel free to ping me
<seb128> I also added cards for GNOME SRU to the common board, they are tagged SRU, help would be welcome if some of you want to grab updates
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it from me
<seb128> sorry we went slightly over the half hour
<seb128> anything else?
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> thanks!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 28 14:38:07 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-04-28-14.01.moin.txt
<hellsworth> thanks!!
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<oSoMoN> thanks
<didrocks> thanks!
<jibel> thank you everyone 
<Laney> seb128: are you following up with debian / groovy uploads for those srus?
<Laney> (I know salsa is down atm)
<seb128> Laney, yes, half of those are already synced to groovy, 2 are pending Debian to be back to sync, eog is pending salsa to be back for me to be able to push
<Laney> ok good
<Laney>  omg
<Laney> I finally upgraded my dev container to focal from disco just now
<Laney> lintian generates *clickable links*
<Laney> looooooooove ittttt
<robert_ancell> hellsworth, hi, online?
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-29
<callmepk> Good morning
<jamesh> Hi callmepk 
<callmepk> Hi jamesh 
<jibel> morning all
<callmepk> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi callmepk
<duflu> Morning all
<duflu> For some :)
<duflu> tjaalton, do you reckon Won't Fix is right for bug 1867668 ?
<ubot5> bug 1867668 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Visual artifacts in Gnome Shell when using the 'intel' Xorg driver" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867668
<duflu> If that's really the case I feel we should move toward not shipping the package
<tjaalton> duflu: right..
<tjaalton> it's not getting better
 * duflu shrugs and goes to his flu shot appointment
<tjaalton> actually, it's still needed on the oldest 64bit-capable hw, and they don't use iris so there's no corruption either
<amurray> duflu: apologies for hijacking this but I also have the same Intel UHD 670 chipset as in that bug above, and I have xserver-xorg-video-intel installed - but I am not seeing any weird artifacts - should I also think about uninstalling that? what driver should it be using instead?
<didrocks> good morning
<tjaalton> amurray: you need to manually configure xorg.conf to use it
<jibel> salut didrocks 
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va ?
<amurray> tjaalton: oh so if I haven't manually configured xorg to use it, it won't be used so no worries?
<tjaalton> right
<jibel> didrocks, bien et toi?
<tjaalton> modesetting_drv.so is the default where it can be used
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va
<jibel> :)
<jibel> cool
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<jibel> bonjour seb128 
<seb128> lut didrocks, jibel, en forme ?
<seb128> ici Ã§a va!
<jibel> ben oui, en forme.
<didrocks> Ã§a va
<duflu> amurray, yeah your Xorg log will show which one with several messages either from "intel" or "modeset"
<duflu> Morning didrocks, jibel, seb128 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hey marcustomlinson 
<seb128> hey oSoMoN  duflu
<Laney> hi!
<duflu> Hi Laney!
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, marcustomlinson, hey Laney 
 * Laney studies the salut/hey divide there
<Laney> moin duflu & didrocks 
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> yo ho seb128 
<Laney> i'm good!
<Laney> we did some online quizzes with friends last night where each of us created a round and then the others answered it
<Laney> lockdown fun
<Laney> you?
<seb128> Laney, sorry, was afaik for a bit, things are going well here but it's getting a bit borring. The online quizzes do sound fun :)
<seb128> shrug, I wish we had logs for build retries
<Laney> desktop team quiz? ;-)
<seb128> haha, we should!
<seb128> someone has been retrying nautilus/groovy on all archs 6 times since yesterday
<Laney> :/
<seb128> it's not going to automagically fix itself
<seb128> duflu, bug #1875243 sounds like a downstream issue to me, I don't think upstream has a way to declare runtime depends?
<ubot5> bug 1875243 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Unexpressed dependency between gnome-control-center and mutter-common" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875243
<duflu> seb128, I think the problem originates upstream and it would involve us changing upstream code. But yeah I expect upstream developers won't like it and will ask we only do it downstream
<duflu> Worth a try though
<duflu> The G-APIs for opening schemas will crash by default when not available. I remember getting a tip from Marco a couple of years ago about how to avoid that
<seb128> I can tell you how this one is going to go :p
<duflu> seb128, well it's worth a try. The upstream guys are not always predictable
<seb128> They are going to give a reply that GNOME is a coherent set and that they don't care about people trying to use g-c-c outside of a GNOME desktop
<duflu> Yeah, as I said. But if we just propose a tiny fix that avoids crashing then maybe.
<duflu> If nothing else it's the same fix whether we propose it upstream or avoid the discussion and patch it
<Laney> It's not a patch, it is a package dependency
<duflu> Laney the bug is a crash. It's "unexpressed" because it's not a package dependency
<seb128> you could make g-c-c resilient to the missing schemas but https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/-/merge_requests/736#note_768912 is a recent statement of what upstream think about handling !GNOME use
<duflu> Yeah, I guess they are predictable sometimes
<seb128> 'Don't you think there are enough bugs to deal with to stop bothering with bug reports caused by folks that think that GNOME is a bag of bits from which they can pick?'
<seb128> I expect you to get that reply as well
<seb128> oh well, no point arguing more here
<Laney> btw the org.gnome.mutter requirement is because of the fractional scaling patch
<duflu> I think we've already committed more time to the discussion than the bug is worth
<seb128> right
<duflu> Laney, interesting then
<seb128> Laney, that rules out the need to upstream :)
<Laney> but the fix is the same: if you require a schema, depend on its provider
<duflu> We don't require it. We just use it if available
<duflu> Crashing is a poor design choice
<duflu> as would be a dependency
<seb128> I argued that 10 years ago when gsettings was added, but that argument is over for long now
<seb128> no point having it again
<duflu> Ok
<duflu> Anyway, it was just one of a couple hundred bugs I had to catch up on. Now done. Let's see if I can catch up on MR discussions today too
<seb128> duflu, up to you how you handle bugs but I'm going to suggest again than you don't bother re-triaging bugs other already dealt with
<seb128> it's just not worth the effort
<duflu> I only make changes when something is missing or wrong
<seb128> right, when I use stock reply for crashers asking to submit them with apport and set invalid you come behind and change it back to incomplete
<seb128> I just find that counter-productive
<duflu> seb128, that's because it is Incomplete, not Invalid
<seb128> it's marked invalid because submitting with ubuntu-bug will open a new report
<seb128> and I'm not going to bother dealing with crashers without a stacktrace and submitted without the tools
<seb128> we get those through e.u.c anyway
<seb128> anyway, as said it's your choice at the end, it just make us waste time on each side for bugs that are not worth it
<seb128> important segfault issues do bubble up by other means than having to pull infos from a poorly submitted report
<seb128> at least that's my opinion
<duflu> Sorry was AFK...
<seb128> no worry, I don't think it's worth us entering an argument anyway
<duflu> seb128, good point. I am the author of that stock reply and hadn't thought of it that way. I guess I only use Invalid when I expect the discussion is over. However when I use that reply generally the discussion has some way to go as the user finds the missing info
<seb128> at a minimum we should change the stock reply then
<seb128> 1. Look in /var/crash for crash files and if found run:
<seb128>     ubuntu-bug YOURFILE.crash
<seb128> Then tell us the ID of the newly-created bug.
<seb128>  
<seb128> should be 'mark the bug as duplicate of the new report'
<duflu> seb128, yeah go nuts...
<seb128> :-)
<duflu> feel free
<seb128> anyway, i'm going to keep closing those invalid for the reason I stated
<duflu> OK
<seb128> but I'm not going to fight over status, if you come after and set as incomplete I let them this way
<seb128> I just think we have better use of our time, as said important issue will get other & proper reports
<seb128> if a bug is reported only once, even if it's a valid problem we just don't have the resources to deal with uncommon problems at this point
<duflu> Yes, Invalid and Invalid because Incomplete are kind of the same
<duflu> Beware of calling them "uncommon problems" though. Plenty of times the users come through with a new bug report or a bug link and it turns out to be a duplicate of a common issue
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<seb128> duflu, right, which means the issue is already reported and usually already has a debug stacktrace so we don't get value from spending time on the poor quality new report
<seb128> which was exactly my point
<duflu> seb128, it is useful because directing people to all share the same bug is the only way we can measure the duplicate count. Particularly important when the errors bug link isn't yet known
<duflu> And that contributes to the bug heat to give us more accurate stats about what's hot
<seb128> I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that launchpad is busy enough that keeping it clean could use half of the team resources
<seb128> we just don't have the manpower to do a perfect job of it
<duflu> I actually subscribe to fewer packages than you, so it's a smaller job from my side :)
<seb128> I guess we slightly disagree on where we should put the cursor / how much energy we should spent on triaging and what value we get back from it
<duflu> It's extremely important. More important than actually fixing bugs. Because you need to fix the right thing before fixing the thing right
<seb128> I think we have a view of what needs fixing atm
<seb128> like the nvidia scaling / screen rotation problem
<seb128> if we dry up the release targets then we need to refine our view of what is needed next indeed
<duflu> A full time project manager would help for sure. But most weeks are not as busy as this week so I wouldn't gauge it by this week. Just get through it
<seb128> right
<duflu> seb128, I am all caught up with upstreams now, except for unfinished lower priority upstream work. I expect to get back to Nvidia tomorrow. It was hard last week -- I only had a 2 day week
<duflu> where our weeks start on Tuesdays
<duflu> Anyway, good night
<Laney> kenvandine: did you see the image failure i fwded to you yesterday?
<kenvandine> Laney: i did not
<kenvandine> Laney: where?
<Laney> oh wait there's this stupid problem where you don't get my emails isn't there
<kenvandine> Laney: ugh... that's still a problem?
<Laney> kenvandine: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/
<kenvandine> sigh
<Laney> guess so
<kenvandine> so weird
<Laney> lemme send a test, tell me if you get it
<kenvandine> - cannot use snap "gnome-calculator": default provider "gnome-3-34-1804" is missing
<Laney> done
<kenvandine> oh... we need gnome-3-34-1804 for 18.04
<kenvandine> i got your test email
<kenvandine> Laney: would it be enough to open the ubuntu-18.04 channel for gnome-3-34-1804?  Or do we need to update the seed to add that?
<Laney> what's seeded now and what changed?
<kenvandine> gnome-calculator uses a different platform snap now
<kenvandine> it went from gnome-3-28-1804 to gnome-3-34-1804
<Laney> ah
<Laney> probably need to seed it
<Laney> is that desirable?
<kenvandine> it means i should update the other snaps seeded in 18.04 to use the same platform
<Laney> two platform snaps on bionic then
<kenvandine> so we don't end up with both
<Laney> indeed
<kenvandine> let me do that today/tonight?
<kenvandine> or is this blocking anything important
<Laney> just daily bionic builds afaik
<kenvandine> ok, i'll work on updating those today
<kenvandine> but need some testing too so the builds might be broken tonight too
<kenvandine> but i'll get them all fixed asap
<Laney> great cheers
<hellsworth>  good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey hey hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there didrocks 
<jibel> bonjour hellsworth 
<hellsworth> bonjour!
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, kenvandine: could someone please launch some autopkgtests for me: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cT4CvtfTQJ/
<hellsworth> please and thank you
<seb128> jbicha, it's a bit of a waste to do a gnome-shell SRU for a recommends change :/ we could have coordinated to include other fixes or waiting for .2, I'm probably going to block that one in proposed until we have another upload, no point hitting users and servers twice
<kenvandine> hellsworth: sure
<hellsworth> thanks kenvandine 
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: done
<hellsworth> ha! now they're running twice i guess
<kenvandine> i haven't started yet :)
<kenvandine> whew
<hellsworth> whew
<hellsworth> thanks marcustomlinson :)
<marcustomlinson> :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i just got the nifty "Chromium has been updated" notification.  Love it!
<kenvandine> Laney: i just found your email from  yesterday in my spam
<kenvandine> shady character
<Laney> kenvandine: fix that build failure, and also give me your bank details
<kenvandine> Laney: what do i have to lose!
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, glad it works as intended! it's only a stop-gap measure though, not a proper solution to the problem
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: yeah, eventually we'll have a user service running that will prompt and even let you trigger a restart of the app
<ahayzen> kenvandine, assume you have seen the portal / flatpak work for this https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2019/12/19/9100/  I think they were even considering putting parts of that code within gtk at one point so all apps would automagically get it, but not sure what happened to that.  Could be interesting if snap could use a similar / same portal.
<kenvandine> ahayzen: yeah
<kenvandine> we should start working on it soon, not sure what all pieces we'll be using to put it together
<ahayzen> kenvandine, right, guess it also depends if you want a dialog provided by the system for all apps, or if you want an API that apps can opt into and provide their own dialogs etc
<diddledan> not an Ubuntu Desktop question, but I'm having trouble with GTK and GStreamer (on Wayland - haven't logged out to test X11 yet).. I add a GtkGLSink Gstreamer widget to a GtkViewport in python and then try to remove it some time later. The attempt to remove immediately segfaults my app :-( after printing `(gui.py:3048628): Gdk-WARNING **:
<diddledan> 22:37:08.114: eglMakeCurrent failed`
<diddledan> I'm flummoxed to explain what's going on or how to fix it. advice would be helpful :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-30
<duflu> pieq, RAOF, maybe we can get a backport to focal? :) bug 1868520
<ubot5> bug 1868520 in mesa (Ubuntu) "Clients fail to run with zwp_linux_dmabuf error (failed to import supplied dmabufs: Unsupported buffer format 808669784) [DRM_FORMAT_XRGB2101010]" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868520
<pieq> hi duflu !
<pieq> duflu, is that the bug that would cause problems with mpv under wayland?
<duflu> Hi pieq, and yes
<RAOF> I don't want to step on tjaalton's toes, but that should cleanly cherry-pick onto Focal's mesa, yes.
<duflu> \o/
<pieq> Sounds great! :)
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Oooh. glxinfo finally shows me 10-bit configs
<tjaalton> RAOF: queue it for stable, and we get it for free :)
<tjaalton> duflu: it seems a bit premature to mark it fix committed for ubuntu? 
<duflu> tjaalton, that's the policy Seb requested
<tjaalton> huh
<duflu> It's the new way
<duflu> Especially for fixes we will get for free at some stage. It at least shows the work is done
<tjaalton> makes no sense to me
<duflu> tjaalton, I agree but that discussion is past
<tjaalton> in progress maybe
<tjaalton> ok
<duflu> Yeah that's what I used to do. I was told to use Fix Committed and do now
<duflu> It's at least more honest that the effort is paused
<tjaalton> can't be the same for sru's then
<duflu> Hmm, maybe not
<duflu> Oh well, desktop policy at least
<tjaalton> my plan for mesa is to wait for the last point-release to come out before the backport sru to focal
<tjaalton> if it's too late for this, then a separate sru could be done
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going better. Getting back up to speed and less tired. You?
<seb128> oh, great :)
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<duflu> Slightly conflicted though. I just remembered I hadn't written a post about 20.04 performance yet
<duflu> Maybe next week 
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut seb128 
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> duflu, next week sounds good still
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va :)
<jibel> hello seb128 and didrocks 
<didrocks> salut jibel 
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<duflu> seb128, (because Marco is not here to ask) do you know if we are maintaining X11 fractional scaling in the distro patch? The upstream proposal has been unchanged for ages. Or maybe that's just right... https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/336
<seb128> lut jibel, hey Wimpress, how are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<duflu> Actually it probably doesn't change anything for me...
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> seb128, bien, et toi?
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<duflu> Oops. IRC convinced me he was offline
<seb128> duflu, I don't know if Marco has a vcs for it but he's maintaining it at the distro level afaik
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<seb128> duflu, I think he did some adjustements when trying to upstream, also he didn't get much traction there it seems, unsure they are interested in it
<duflu> Yes. Though I have proposals older than that so never say never
<seb128> right, well it's another of they case where upstream interest are not aligned, which is different of priorities
<seb128> the upstream focus is on wayland, but yeah, who knows...
<marcustomlinson> morning
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> seb128: doing ok thanks you?
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu and didrocks
<Laney> moin
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey Laney, how are you?
<callmepk> Hi duflu seb128 didrocks marcustomlinson Laney
<seb128> hey callmepk, how are you?
<duflu> Hi Laney, callmepk, Europe
<Laney> moin seb128 callmepk duflu!
<callmepk> seb128 I am good thanks! and you?
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<marcustomlinson> hey callmepk
<didrocks> hey callmepk 
<seb128> callmepk, I'm good thanks
<Laney> Wimpress: 
<Laney> + SNAPPY_STORE_NO_CDN=1 snap download --cohort= --channel=stable/ubuntu-20.10 software-boutique
<Laney> Fetching snap "software-boutique"
<Laney> error: cannot download snap "software-boutique": no snap revision available as specified
<GunnarHj> Good morning seb128! Time to sponsor an ibus upload?
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/ibusmerge
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, sure
<GunnarHj> seb128: Great. Do you think that Debian can be convinced to carry that Unity patch to allow us to start sync'ing?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I've no idea, I don't know the Debian maintainer, you can try asking :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Will do.
<duflu> Trevinho, when you get time can you please rebase x11 fractional scaling against master? Seems like 3.36.2 has the same conflict so it will need doing soon anyway. I am keen to just have a git branch to work against
<duflu> which I can do now, if branched from 3.36.1 but that's so old now :)
<seb128> tseliot, hey, I would welcome your input on bug #1876051 if you have some time to read/comment
<ubot5> bug 1876051 in nvidia-settings (Ubuntu) "Default acceleration mode option is none of the 3 nvidia settings option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876051
 * tseliot looking
<tseliot> seb128, what is available in nvidia settings I developed before the new feature in gnome was made available. I'll see what I can do.
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
<Trevinho> duflu: ok will make that 
<seb128> Trevinho, bonjourno
<Trevinho> seb128: hey :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: anyway yesterday I tried again with Nvidia drivers on prime and with multimonitor and it works correctly 
<Trevinho> oh, new gedit coming? https://gitlab.gnome.org/chergert/gnome-text-editor/
<seb128> Trevinho, GNOME people keeps complaining that gedit isn't following their guidelines and isn't aligned with other apps, maybe they decided to do a simpler version?
<didrocks> interesting
<mgedmin> https://twitter.com/hergertme/status/1253070040632422400
<mgedmin> and especially https://twitter.com/hergertme/status/1253087811470716928
<Trevinho> seb128: gtk4 can be a good excuse to replace things silently...
<Trevinho> I see the terminal coming!
<Trevinho> seb128: I was looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1875845, it's actually true that when using fingerprint for logging-in we don't unlock the keyring.... But the question there is: shouldn't we actually disable the fingerprint to login by default, as I think we've a left-over here.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1875845 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "keyring cannot be unlocked if used fingerprint to login gnome session" [Low,New]
<Trevinho> as currerently we left the default policy and so it's possible
<seb128> Trevinho, shouldn't it prompt for the password in that case then?
<seb128> Trevinho, and yes I think when we promoted fprintd the consensus was it would allow unlock but not login
<seb128> Trevinho, I though you had changed the default pam config for that back then?
<Trevinho> seb128: so... yeah, we need to fix that too. I hope won't be seen as regression
<Trevinho> seb128: eh we did.. but I think something changed when we upgraded to 1.9?
<seb128> :(
<Trevinho> so, that bug somewhat is true, but not sure the root cause is something we should support
<seb128> right, still shouldn't it fallback to ask for the password in that case?
<Trevinho> seb128: in my opinion yes.
<Trevinho> but... it's true that if we allow it for login, than maybe one could be relaxed in the keyring too
<seb128> don't, security team will find you otherwise :p
<didrocks> "We know where you live"
<didrocks> "Kind regards."
<didrocks> "security team"
<seb128> :)
 * mdeslaur adds some more names to "the list"
<marcustomlinson> :D
<didrocks> ZE list
<ricotz> hellsworth, hi, jfyi, https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/11254496/+listing-archive-extra
<hellsworth> ricotz: thanks and good job preparing this a few weeks early
<hellsworth> also good morning deksktopers
<ricotz> hellsworth, just for testing, ~rc2 still to come
<hellsworth> right i see that
<ricotz> hellsworth, I guess someone could binary-copy the 6.4.3 package from focal to groovy now
<hellsworth> is that something i can do?
<hellsworth> or maybe that's the release team? do you know, ricotz ?
<Laney> any uploader can
<hellsworth> oh ok
<ricotz> oh, this is not restricted to an archive admin?
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: would you be willing to binary copy the 6.4.3 packages to groovy? 
<hellsworth> i suppose that binary copy would happen from here... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+copy-packages?field.name_filter=libreoffice&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=focal
<Laney> teehee
<Laney> you have to use an API script
<hellsworth> ah ok..
<hellsworth> was just trying to help facilitate :)
<Laney> copy-package --from=ubuntu --to=ubuntu --from-suite=focal-proposed --to-suite=groovy-proposed --include-binaries --version THEVERSION libreoffice
<Laney> or something like that
<Laney> there's no fancy UIs once you get down to dark archive arts like this :-)
<marcustomlinson> i would've just built again and uploaded to groovy
<marcustomlinson> not done this before
<marcustomlinson> source build I mean
<ricotz> the idea was to avoid this excessive build while there is no gain at this point
<hellsworth> ok can go that route too.. it just takes a long time to build so figured a binary copy would be enough
<marcustomlinson> there's also a Vcs-Git entry in the control that should be updated
<marcustomlinson> new branch created too
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, groovy will get libreoffice 7.0
<marcustomlinson> eventually yes
<hellsworth> i'll update LP git to add a groovy branch and update the control right now..
<marcustomlinson> there's still 2 more releases under 6.4 that we'll need to release
<hellsworth> and those can be built for groovy
<marcustomlinson> yes that is what I typically do, I release to dev first then SRU to dev-1 saying "this is in dev"
<hellsworth> i assumed we wanted a 6.4.3 in groovy quickly to 1)avoid an unnecessary build and 2) to satisfy maybe a requirement that LO is seeded..
<Laney> there's a requirement that the verions are always >= as you go up that is violated atm
<Laney> copying would be fine imho at this stage, but up to you guys
<Laney> assuming there have been no transitions in between
<hellsworth> Laney: would it be a problem if we copy the package with version 1:6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.1 ?
<hellsworth> (since it has 20.04 in it)
<Laney> nope
<Laney> you can only really do this at the start of the cycle, as (1) if there's a new toolchain we want builds with that, (2) there are likely to have been transitions which mean that the binaries won't be installable anyway
<hellsworth> when you say "transitions" do you mean changes to the package?
<Laney> like soname changes in things libreoffice depends on
<hellsworth> ok
<Laney> means that Depends: libfooN won't work any more, needing to be libfooM instead (i.e. rebuilt and possibly fixed in the code)
<hellsworth> right.. since 6.4.3 just came out and works on focal, there shouldn't be any transitions then
<marcustomlinson> ok I'll see if I can figure it out
<Laney> something could have come in via Debian syncs
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: if it's too much of a hassle, i can just initiate a groovy build
<Laney> not super trivial to tell
<Laney> you could do it and let proposed-migration tell you
<hellsworth> so maybe initiating a new build is the more prudent option Laney .. that's what i'm hearing
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: tbc, i'm going to build for groovy. the same 6.4.3 but with a changelog entry, and then hand you some artifacts to upload... should autopkgtests on groovy be skipped?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: um, let me try do a copy
<hellsworth> sure ok
<marcustomlinson> might as well learn something new
<hellsworth> :)
<Laney> \m/
<GunnarHj> seb128: https://bugs.debian.org/959185
<ubot5> Debian bug 959185 in src:ibus "Ubuntu only additions" [Wishlist,Open]
<marcustomlinson> Laney: what is the meaning of this? Candidate copy target: https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/+archive/primary
<marcustomlinson> yes or no question
<marcustomlinson> :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks, let's see
<marcustomlinson> oh it's asking if that's really where I want the packages to be copied to
<Laney> ya, copying to the ubuntu primary archive
<marcustomlinson> ok copies requested (apparently)
<hellsworth> thanks marcustomlinson :)
<Laney> you can follow it on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+publishinghistory
<marcustomlinson> oh cool thanks
<hellsworth> also marcustomlinson , ricotz : i created a ubuntu-groovy-6.4 branch with only changelog+control updates
<hellsworth> do i need to tag? there's already a libreoffice_6.4.3-1
<marcustomlinson> cool because what I just did might just blow up the archive ;)
 * hellsworth crosses fingers
<hellsworth> (for not blowing up the archive)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: the existing tag is fine
<hellsworth> k
<ricotz> hellsworth, no tag required also the new changelog entry could be dropped
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: but you won't need that changelog entry
<hellsworth> but why not
<ricotz> hellsworth, marcustomlinson, I am confident that it will work
<marcustomlinson> yeah what ricotz said
<hellsworth> ok... i'll go remove it then
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: the packages are being copied as is
<ricotz> there are not transitions and I am running groovy with the focal build here
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: if we were building again specifically for a groovy release then sure we'd need a new changelog entry
<hellsworth> ok
<hellsworth> yeah that makes sense.
<hellsworth> i've removed the changelog entry so the commit is only the control update
<marcustomlinson> cool thanks hellsworth
<hellsworth> thank you.. ok turning towards 6.3.6 for eoan now since the rc pages have been updated now..
<marcustomlinson> enjoy!
<hellsworth> oh you know it :)
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: would you please restart this 6.4.3 autopkgtest for me? https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=focal&arch=armhf&package=apparmor&trigger=libreoffice%2F1%3A6.4.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.1
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: sure done
<hellsworth> ty
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center Sebastien Bacher 159778 * commented merge request !17 * https://deb.li/87jE
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master fd7bd26 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/0008-Allow-tweaking-some-settings-for-Ubuntu-Dock.patch * ubuntu-panel: Mark the primary monitor on dock options * https://deb.li/3o1ve
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master ff0865d Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/0008-Allow-tweaking-some-settings-for-Ubuntu-Dock.patch * ubuntu-panel: Ignore inactive monitors * https://deb.li/SY4D
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 2360276 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/0008-Allow-tweaking-some-settings-for-Ubuntu-Dock.patch * ubuntu-panel: Show shell labels when using appearance panel * https://deb.li/3z3zz
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master e509136 Sebastien Bacher debian/ changelog patches/0008-Allow-tweaking-some-settings-for-Ubuntu-Dock.patch * https://deb.li/3g5DR
<KGB-2> Merge remote-tracking branch 'trevinho/ubuntu/dock-mark-primary-monitor' into ubuntu/master
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master Sebastien Bacher * [merge] merge request !17: ubuntu-panel: Multimonitor fixes and improvements for dock monitor selector * https://deb.li/3wkvn
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal e0bab2e Sebastien Bacher * pushed 1145 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/r7Ky
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 5d361e4 Robert Ancell debian/ (5 files in 2 dirs) * https://deb.li/3PVIl
<KGB-2> * debian/patches/0029-applications-Use-new-snapd-glib-API-for-labelling-Sn.patch:
<KGB-2> * debian/control:
<KGB-2>   - Use shared names for snap interfaces, fixing some interfaces that don't
<KGB-2>     have labels.
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 51a0825 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/ (8 files in 2 dirs) * Rebase to resolve conflict * https://deb.li/3MDyz
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal e8d24d6 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/IZ2l
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal e160c5a Robert Ancell debian/ (5 files in 2 dirs) * https://deb.li/3e8GI
<KGB-2> * debian/patches/0029-applications-Use-new-snapd-glib-API-for-labelling-Sn.patch:
<KGB-2> * debian/control:
<KGB-2>   - Use shared names for snap interfaces, fixing some interfaces that don't
<KGB-2>     have labels.
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 6552f19 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/patches/ series 0030-temporarily-revert-alt-char-key.patch * https://deb.li/3f1y4
<KGB-2> Merge branch 'revert-alt-char-key' of salsa.debian.org:gunnarhj-guest/gnome-control-center into revert-alt-char-key
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center signed tags ed27c47 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%3.36.1-1ubuntu5.20.04.1 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:3.36.1-1ubuntu5.20.04.1 * https://deb.li/7CvA
<sil2100> kenvandine: hey! So I saw some bionic desktop build failures, so I pushed such a fix and just wanted you to double check if that's correct:
<sil2100> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/commit/?id=e84ad9da2d7560477bf5ef4dc1528c92cce62c5d
<sil2100> (that's for bionic)
<kenvandine> sil2100: yes... that is correct
<kenvandine> sil2100: however, you will still get failures for a couple of days :/
<kenvandine> i need to update the other seeded snaps to use gnome-3-34-1804
<kenvandine> but the store doesn't want us to promote those to stable until next week
<sil2100> kenvandine: awww, ok! Thanks for the heads up ;)
<KGB-1> mutter pristine-tar 439430e Simon McVittie mutter_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.delta mutter_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for mutter_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/zn8C
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x bbb5237 Simon McVittie * pushed 20 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/HrqF
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x ac8075b Carlos Garnacho src/x11/meta-x11-selection.c * x11: Forward current selection state when initializing X11 selections * https://deb.li/3SAw1
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x a32bb75 Carlos Garnacho src/x11/meta-x11-selection.c * x11: Clear X11 selection source after unsetting owner * https://deb.li/Nbod
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x 5465c91 Carlos Garnacho src/x11/meta-x11-selection.c * x11: Generalize x11 selection owner checks * https://deb.li/3G4mh
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x e8d9996 Carlos Garnacho src/x11/meta-x11-selection.c * x11: Allow X11 clients to clear the selection * https://deb.li/3UNP2
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/3.36.x 5f40493 Carlos Garnacho src/core/ meta-selection.c meta-selection-private.h * core: Add private function to get the current selection owner * https://deb.li/itluC
<KGB-1> mutter tags d435f25 Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.2 * Upstream version 3.36.2 * https://deb.li/38rtG
<KGB-1> mutter upstream/latest bbb5237 Simon McVittie * pushed 63 commits * https://deb.li/ignrV
<KGB-1> gnome-shell tags 120c86c Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.2 * Upstream version 3.36.2 * https://deb.li/37bA4
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-01
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<didrocks> good morning
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128 and didrocks
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, didrocks, happy friday!
<marcustomlinson> and to you :)
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, salut seb128! Happy Friday
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center tags f1eeadb Sebastien Bacher upstream/3.36.2 * Upstream version 3.36.2 * https://deb.li/33fXi
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 9b44b35 Sebastien Bacher * pushed 29 commits * https://deb.li/3IHCe
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center pristine-tar 7be9268 Sebastien Bacher gnome-control-center_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-control-center_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-control-center_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/Xw2I
<duflu> Morning seb128, didrocks, marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, Alright, could be better and aim to be after a sleep in tomorrow. You?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good thanks!
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center signed tags 8e7db10 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/3ZHLF
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master caf0d2c Sebastien Bacher * pushed 35 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/AwW7
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master ce848d3 Goran VidoviÄ po/hr.po * Update Croatian translation * https://deb.li/3a0cv
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 4681768 Jiri GrÃ¶nroos po/fi.po * Update Finnish translation * https://deb.li/r00E
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master fb8410e Jiri GrÃ¶nroos po/fi.po * Update Finnish translation * https://deb.li/30f8d
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master cb98517 Bastien Nocera panels/info-overview/cc-info-overview-panel.c * info-overview: Verify data coming from switcheroo-control * https://deb.li/dIk2
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master ef0b5d4 Robert Ancell panels/applications/cc-applications-panel.c * applications: Fix only connected snap interfaces showing * https://deb.li/310qC
<Laney> hey ho
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> what up seb128 
<Laney> doing alright
<seb128> it's friday!
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center signed tags 300cc7c Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%3.36.2-0ubuntu1 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:3.36.2-0ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/3pvZh
<Laney> looking forward to the weekend /o\
<Laney> you?
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 0c2f403 Sebastien Bacher * pushed 37 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/ijUoc
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal fb8410e Jiri GrÃ¶nroos po/fi.po * Update Finnish translation * https://deb.li/30f8d
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal cb98517 Bastien Nocera panels/info-overview/cc-info-overview-panel.c * info-overview: Verify data coming from switcheroo-control * https://deb.li/dIk2
<Laney> good work on the .2 updates
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal ef0b5d4 Robert Ancell panels/applications/cc-applications-panel.c * applications: Fix only connected snap interfaces showing * https://deb.li/310qC
<seb128> me too, though it's rainy now, summer is over
<seb128> thx!
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal b24817a Jiri GrÃ¶nroos po/fi.po * Update Finnish translation * https://deb.li/xI2z
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal e714882 Yuri Chornoivan po/uk.po * Update Ukrainian translation * https://deb.li/3l0Gs
<Laney> my water bill is happy for that
<Laney> had been using the hose every day
<seb128> GNOME SRUs this morning, meetings in the afternoon and then w.e \o/
<seb128> :)
<seb128> do you have monday off in the u.k? I don't remember how you 'work day holiday' works
<seb128> it's today here, but since there is virtual Vienna I'm just going to swap
<Laney> they moved it to friday this year
<Laney> because 75 years since VE day
<seb128> VE?
<Laney> it's what they call the end of WWII in europe here
<Laney> "victory in europe"
<didrocks> hey hey Laney 
<Laney> moin didrocks 
<Laney> speaking of holidays, aren't you both supposed to be off?
<didrocks> yeah, but swapping as I will need those days soooooooon :)
<didrocks> (same with next Friday)
<didrocks> and a meeting on the sprint today
<Laney> but you could be doing something bett ... oh wait
<didrocks> ahah :p
<seb128> ah, ok
<didrocks> tseliot: hey, is the Prime nvidia panel something ubuntu-only or upstream? (the switch between on demand / performance mode)?
<didrocks> tseliot: context is https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/2715#note_786173 (and so, if itâs ubuntu only, I am afraid we will need a distro patch in switcheroo)
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128, the ibus upstreaming was successful:
<GunnarHj> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/ibus/-/commit/924290db
<GunnarHj> (I merged it myself, but had a +1 from the main maintainer after some minor adjustments.)
<seb128> GunnarHj, great!
<seb128> and hey :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: So I suppose that we from now should try to add e.g. upstream commits directly in salsa rather than as Ubuntu only patches.
<seb128> GunnarHj, indeed that would be better
<Laney> attente in that patch
 * Laney goes misty eyed
<seb128> indeed :/
<Laney> Wimpress: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/477749414/buildlog_ubuntu_groovy_amd64_ubuntu-mate_BUILDING.txt.gz that's one for you to fix
<axino> hi
<axino> a friend of mine reported that a d-r-u from bionic to focal removed ifupdown. Is this expected ? And if so, is this mentioned somewhere in the focal release notes ?
<axino> not sure if it's a server team question or a desktop-ish question
<ogra> axino, i'm pretty sure ifupdown was dropped between xenail and bionic so i doubt there is somethig in the focal release notes
<ogra> *xenial
<axino> ogra: I'm running on focal and I still have it. I d-r-u'ed  through every release though
<axino> ogra: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/zYyyfRyWQw/
<ogra> https://ubuntu.com/blog/netplan-by-default-in-17-10
<ogra> dropped in 17.10 ... 
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#New_since_16.04_LTS
<axino> ogra: "not the default" is very, VERY different from "dropped"
<axino> ogra: from that wiki page : The ifupdown package remains available and supported in Ubuntu main for users that find netplan does not currently meet their networking needs. 
<ogra> see the bionic release notes i linked
<axino> ogra: see what I just typed
<ogra> yes, you can manually install it 
<ogra> but the upgrader should have removed it during your 16.04->18.04 upgrade
<axino> ogra: where do you see that ?
<ogra> it was deprecated in 18.04 as the release notes say ... netplan replaces it in all default installs
<axino> I see nowhever in the bionic or focal release notes that ifupdown will be removed during the upgrade and that users must upgrade to netplan
<ogra> usually the upgrader removed deprecated packages
<ogra> in focal it moved to universe
<ogra> but is still installable
<axino> ogra: so where are the release notes mentioning that the upgrader will remove ifupdown ? "usually the upgrader removed deprecated packages" that's never been my experience
<ogra> i'm not sure what you want to discuss with me ... the upgrader in 18.04 *did* remove it because it wasnt a default piece anymore and had been replaced ... also note that ifconfig is deprecated since about a decade, ubuntu was the last distro removing it 
<ogra> (following debian that removed it around the same time)
<didrocks> ogra: I think his point is that when he upgraded to bionic, the upgrader didnât remove it for him, nor during the main -> universe demotion (like disco -> eoan). Iâm unsure why, but #u-devel with foundation team will be the right place to discuss it IMHO as they both own d-r-u and know what they have done for the transition ifupdown -> netplan
<axino> ah thanks didrocks :)
<ogra> didrocks, well, i doubt we can retroactively fix it so i dont see what the discussion point is ... it is gone :) he could file a bug about the non-removal indeed ... 
<axino> ogra: I was hoping we could retroactively fix the release notes :)
<didrocks> maybe we should understand when itâs really removed from d-r-u and adapt the release note :)
<axino> I have no problem with the removal, if the users are warned in the release notes
<ogra> "Given that ifupdown is no longer installed by default, the commands: ifup and ifdown are also unavailable. Please use the ip command to achieve similar functionality, specifically ip link set $device up and ip link set $device down. "
<axino> 18.04 release notes have "The ifupdown package remains available and supported in Ubuntu main", 20.04 ones have no mention of that package, surely we can do better
<axino> thanks again and have a good day everyone !
<ogra> i'D say "no longer installed by deault" is a good enough indicator for "the upgrade will remove it" 
<ogra> but probably i'm reading it wrong 
<ogra> (from the release notes)
<GunnarHj> Does anyone know offhand about example code in Vala for checking XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP ?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I don't
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Trying to google...
<seb128> GunnarHj, e.g https://codesearch.debian.net/show?file=ibus_1.5.22-4%2Fengine%2Fmain.vala&line=82 ?
<seb128> then you probalby need to split in : and see if the list contain the one you want to match on?
<seb128> e.g
<seb128> desktops = GLib.Environment.get_variable("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP");
<GunnarHj> seb128: It's the splitting part I need help with. I don't know Vala. :/
<seb128> desktoplist[] list = desktops.split(":");
<seb128> well, https://valadoc.org/glib-2.0/string.split.html
<seb128> easier to copy an example from there
<Laney> you can use "in" in vala
<Laney> ah sorry misread
<GunnarHj> seb128, Laney: Thanks for tips. Something to look closer into. I'm trying to revive https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/TT566FRyzk/, make it apply for both GNOME and Unity, and propose it upstream.
<Laney> huh interesting
<Laney> surprised that gnome needs such a patch
<GunnarHj> Laney: if you open ibus-setup, the very first thing you see is an option to change the layout switch shortcut. Changing it from there is not effective on GNOME.
<Laney> GunnarHj: Fair enough. That patch looks like it forks the whole UI though - I suspect an upstreamable patch would rather need to modify it dynamically (or make it do the right thing)
<Laney> seb128's hints seem like what you need immediately though (then return "Unity7" in desktop_names or similar)
<GunnarHj> Laney: I see what you mean. But proposing clumsy code is a way to communicate the issue and start the process. I have been successful previously as regards ibus by doing so. :)
<Laney> OK, good luck!
<GunnarHj> Thanks!
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-02
<KGB-0> mutter debian/master Jeremy Bicha * [open] merge request !62: Mark mutter as Linux-any * https://deb.li/6RNs
<KGB-1> mutter Simon McVittie 160107 * commented merge request !62 * https://deb.li/Vluy
<KGB-1> mutter Simon McVittie 160109 * commented merge request !62 * https://deb.li/3NmR4
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-03
<KGB-0> gnome-shell-extensions tags 66da4db Laurent Bigonville upstream/3.36.2 * Upstream version 3.36.2 * https://deb.li/3Q8G0
<KGB-0> gnome-shell-extensions upstream/latest d3b687d Laurent Bigonville * pushed 7 commits * https://deb.li/jx8G
<KGB-0> gnome-shell-extensions pristine-tar dbfd49c Laurent Bigonville gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3DJtM
