#ubuntu-meeting 2004-10-02
<jdub> so many channels...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz_] : Ubuntu Technical Board Meeting -- 2004-09-21 1600UTC
<mdz_> 5 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz_] : Ubuntu Technical Board Meeting -- 2004-09-21 1600UTC || Agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard
<mdz_> ok, time to begin
<mdz_> the first item on the agenda is a discussion of the new software to be brought into universe
<mdz_> my understanding is that this includes Debian contrib, Debian non-free and a subset of Christian Marillat's packages
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Ubuntu Technical Board Meeting -- 2004-09-21 1600UTC || Agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Mithrandir> does this mean there will be no way for people to see whether they install free or non-free software from universe?
<mdz_> that is correct
<mdz_> universe would be a mixture
<mdz_> or, we could use sections to delineate it
<Kamion> there's a comment on the agenda from jdub suggesting we avoid non-free in universe
<Keybuk> are we still going for a "you're installing software from universe, are you crazy?!" kinda warning?
<mdz_> yes
<mdz_> virtual jdub says, let's not do it
<mdz_> Keybuk: yes
<elmo> actually, it's everything in Marillat's - he doesn't have decss or anything flat out indistributable
<mdz_> I have patches for synaptic waiting
<Keybuk> what do we class as non-free?  cf. mplayer
<mdz_> elmo: he doesn't have java in there?
<Mithrandir> I think we should have non-free universe or at least sections in it
<elmo> mdz: no that I saw, no
<mdz_> oh, ok. strike 'a subset of', then
<elmo> Mithrandir: the current plan for that is to change the section to universe/non-free for non-free software
<elmo> the alternate/backup plan is to create universe-non-free
<Mithrandir> I would prefer the latter
<elmo> (plan in the sense, of what I'd plan to do, if we go ahead, sort of thing)
<mdz_> if the need is to let the user know whether they are installing free or non-free software, then a section is no good
<Mithrandir> also think of derivatives, they might want to get something off universe, and if they have to go through a lot of licenses, that's kinda wasted work.
<mdz_> if the goal is just to classify it so that people can look and find out at a glance
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: universe is "you're on your own"
<mdz_> then sections are useful
<mdz_> I think it is preferable that universe live up to its name, and be inclusive by nature
<mdz_> so if we want further classification, it should be in subdivisions of universe
<mdz_> that could mean that universe becomes a separate archive, having components, or that we use sections
* mdz_ hides from elmo
<Mithrandir> I guess we can't have packages that exists in both universe and free-universe?
<Mithrandir> or something along those lines?
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: i'd prefer we do NO classification of universe software at all
<Keybuk> what kind of non-free is likely to end up in universe?
<elmo> mdz: dude, we can't have two archives - we have packages with source in main and binaries in universe
<sabdfl> that way we don't have to argue semantics, it's either main, or it's not
<mdz_> elmo: good point
<mdz_> it would be useful to have a marker for derivative distributions
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: no-commercial stuff, for instance?
<mdz_> if they know that something came from Debian main, they don't need to be concerned about the license
<elmo> sabdfl: yeah, but it's really harsh taking 9000 packages of free software and hiding 100 packages of very non-free software in there
<elmo> sabdfl: debian doesn't do a good job of checking licenses - expecting users too, is just, well harsh
<mdz_> we'd be mixing things in Debian main with non-free stuff, forcing them to review the licenses individually
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: some commercial apps, like opera would be interesting (to me)
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: i've asked elmo to look into opera in universe
<sabdfl> elmo: 9x% of users, given the choice to add non-free during install, say yes
<mdz_> limi will be pleased :-)
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: it's non-redistributable atm, afaik.  they promised to fix it a few years back, but I figure I need to kick some butt.
<elmo> keybuk: mark's said we can ship anything that is distributable (even if it's "non-commercial only") and not likely to invoke DMCA type lawyer/police visits
<sabdfl> not "ship" on the cd
<elmo> err, sorry
<elmo> s/ship/add to universe/
<sabdfl> but certainly make accessible via universe, for people who want it
<mdz_> elmo: and also doesn't contaminate other software we distribute (i.e., java)
<elmo> mdz: right, that too
<sabdfl> the idea is simply to get rid of all the "go over there, add this line to that file, then compile that bit of code...." hoops
<elmo> sabdfl: I don't think we should ignore the x% of users who _do_ actually care about freeness just because they're a minority tho
<sabdfl> mdz_: my reading of the java licence is not that it contaminates other java implementations, but just that those have to be clearly labeled as replacing bits of java
<Keybuk> is there going to be a contrib-alike "depends may not be complete" loop-hole, or do we want supported+universe to be depends-complete ?
<sabdfl> there are a ton of warnings when you add universe to your sources list, for them specifically
<sabdfl> Keybuk: depends-complete
<elmo> ??
<sabdfl> erm, actually, i don't know what i'm talking about there
<elmo> dude, you told me to import contrib, it can never be depends-complete if we do that
<mdz_> contrib is permitted to depend on things that aren't packaged at all
<Keybuk> sabdfl: packages in Debian contrib are allowed to depend on packages that don't exist
<sabdfl> exactly. i don't know what i'm talking about there :-)
<mdz_> or which are randomly downloaded from the Internet
<sabdfl> we should include the "randomly downloaded" stuff in universe too, if we can
<mdz_> elmo: did Debian ever get an official-ish opinion on the java license?
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: I'm a bit wary of this -- it'll make universe include all kinds of _completely_ not-quality-controlled crap.. people treat it as "ok, not supported, but at least it's done by DDs so it might be decent" today.
<elmo> sabdfl: I think you're conflating stuff.. the warnings are primarily there because the software is unsupported.. we're going to have to check the license on stuff we import that isn't from debian/main anyway, so we'll know which is free and which isn't. if we choose not to separate them out, it's not because it costs us anything to do so 
<elmo> mdz: official from who?  AFAIC, the ftp-master position was that it was indistributable in non-free, and we invited -legal to tell us otherwise and they didn't
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: most people will only install something from there that they are explicitly looking for. if they are explicitly looking for it, they will install it wherever they find it
<mdz_> Mithrandir: true, currently people moving from Debian see it that way, as a sort of compatibility layer
<elmo> there's also the issue of derivtatives, it's not just users
<mdz_> elmo: official-ish as in consensus from people who enjoy arguing about licenses (i.e., debian-legal)
<Kamion> yeah, if we want to do something like gnubuntu, it'll be a real issue
<sabdfl> i'm committed to making it obvious that installing software from universe is well labelled as "scary"
<sabdfl> but then making it easy for people to do that if they want
<Kamion> although they may want to audit licences themselves anyway
<Kamion> if we could avoid throwing away the information about the origin component in Debian, that might help
<elmo> mdz: I REJECTed it, asked for follow ups to legal - no clear consensus emerged to dispute the contamination issues, AFIACR
<Mithrandir> we have a few issues here -- we have the free-vs-non-free argument, and we have the "put random stuff downloaded off the net" discussion
<Mithrandir> should we do one at a time?
<mdz_> I don't think the latter is much of an issue at this point
<Kamion> elmo: is there any way we can have Debian-Section: or something in the Packages files?
<Kamion> elmo: that way, we can rearrange ourselves as we see fit without throwing away the information
<Mithrandir> most users don't give a shit about licenses -- derivatives will, to a lesser or bigger degree.
<mdz_> right
<Keybuk> Kamion: or some kind of origin field in general?
<mdz_> free-vs-non-free is an issue for philosophers and derivatives
<Kamion> and derivatives will be quite happy wandering about through the Packages files
<mdz_> the question is, how much work are we willing to do in order to make life easier for those two groups?
<mdz_> I think that a marker to say where the package came from, as Kamion is suggesting, is about the right amount
<Kamion> mdz_: we==Canonical are doing a hell of a lot of work to make life easier for derivatives :-)
<mdz_> Kamion: on the specific issue of licensing :-)
<Mithrandir> throwing away information is silly, but if we can preserve it like Kamion suggests, it sounds good to me
<sabdfl> we can stick some of that stuff in the launchpad database, which would make it possible for the derivatives to use it in the same interface where they are selecting packages anyway
<mdz_> don't we already preserve the Section: from Debian?
<sabdfl> all of that stuff, actually :-)
<Keybuk> I guess we need to keep track of where we get $random debs from anyway, to get the newer versions
<elmo> mdz: usually but not always - I override them sometimes, e.g. nothing in universe is >> optional
<Mithrandir> elmo: er, section != priority?
<sabdfl> i don't want to add any work to the archive structure and files, that's a next-gen archive problem
<elmo> that's priority, actually, but you get the idea, i.e. that we have our own overrides which are seeded from debian's
<Kamion> mdz_: I think the part before the / needs to be squashed ...?
<mdz_> Kamion: doesn't it stick around in the .deb?
<mdz_> and the .dsc
<sabdfl> i'll agree that we'll capture this stuff in launchpad, where it can be part of the automatic filtering of packages
<Mithrandir> mdz_: it is in the debian/control file at least.
<Kamion> mdz_: hm, true, assuming that the original .deb's section was right
<Kamion> although you have to get at least contrib/non-free right, I guess
<sabdfl> "don't show me packages that have licence XYZ"
<elmo> kamion: for Debian it has to be - debian doesn't have component overriding
<mdz_> Kamion: I would at least hope that the original .dsc section is correct with respect to main/non-free/contrib
<Kamion> elmo,mdz: yeah, brain just catching up with fingers
<elmo> sabdfl: or more likely "don't show me non-free software" :-P [hell, that should be the default IMO] 
<Keybuk> elmo: do you get to save your particular non-free religion in a cookie to do that? {ducks}
<mdz_> ok, so if we're doing it fancy for the next-gen stuff, the question would seem to be, what can we do today in order to make it easy to seed that data when it's ready?
<sabdfl> mdz, we'll capture it in launchpad, then discuss for next-gen-archive
<elmo> at the very _least_ we should override the section to be universe/non-free
<Keybuk> mdz_: stick a field in the database and record where we get things from?  "origin = debian non-free" or something
<mdz_> Keybuk: the existing database?
<Keybuk> elmo: that makes some sense too
<elmo> sabdfl: we really shouldn't just put this all off till next-gen - we have to redo our archive anyway for universe, things like adding another section is mickey mouse
<mdz_> sabdfl: is launchpad ready to receive it?
<Keybuk> mdz_: if it's no real work to capture it in both launchpad and katie, let's do that?
<sabdfl> no, i really DON'T want us to be clasifying this stuff. if we do it, we have to do it totally for everything, and that's going to require non-scalable review processes
<sabdfl> mdz_: no
<mdz_> sabdfl: the sort of classification being diiscussed was a "where this came from", which is no work for us because we already know
<mdz_> i.e., Debian main, Debian contrib, Debian non-free, and "other"
<elmo> sabdfl: dude, I can not sanely import non-free/*, there _is_ going to be software in there that says "only Debian may redistribute" this
<elmo> sorry, "Debian and it's mirrors"
<mdz_> aren't we a de facto Debian mirror? :-)
<elmo> not when we do 1.0-2ubuntu1 uploads :-P
<sabdfl> we have to store that somewhere on our side for ongoing syncing purposes anyway, there is no need to stick it in the archive
<Keybuk> mdz_: dodgy, decididly
<mdz_> so, the needs of derivatives are expected to be met by the launchpad db
<mdz_> what about the philosophers?
<mdz_> they want that information now, while derivatives can wait
<elmo> "philosophers" pfft
<elmo> guys, it's not being a philosophers to not want to unwittingly install some "no commercial" use software at work
<sabdfl> the philosophers have the following information: YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. now philosophize.
<elmo> sabdfl: due respect, that's crap
<mdz_> that's a big step down from Debian
<mdz_> especially for the server market
<elmo> exactly
<sabdfl> mdz_: it's a different approach. why is the server market different?
<elmo> because home users aren't affected by "no commercial use" clauses
<elmo> (usually)
<mdz_> sabdfl: today, I can put Debian on a corporate box, and know that anything I can intsall I am legally allowed to use
<sabdfl> same with ubuntu. if you dip into universe, you need to check the licence of anything you install.
<Kamion> this would basically make universe totally useless for anyone except home users
<Kamion> other people aren't likely to have time to check the licences
<mdz_> sabdfl: the difference is that Debian has everything you could possibly want on a server
<mdz_> sabdfl: while ubuntu doesn't, not by a long shot
<mdz_> you don't need to dip outside Debian
<elmo> sabdfl: dude, no one (not even us) is going to run just 'main' on their servers
<mdz_> every server has its dirty laundry :-)
<elmo> why on earth should we actively make things hard for people, when we already know whether a piece of software is free or not?
<sabdfl> because if we say some things are non-free, and some aren't, we expose ourselves to risks in other regards
<Keybuk> sabdfl: in what way?
<mdz_> which is why I couched it in terms of origin, rather than licensing
<sabdfl> what about universe/known-free and universe/black-hole
<mdz_> if we record where it came from, we're providing almost all the information the user needs, without making a licensing decision
<elmo> what about universe/debian-main, universe-REALLY-fucking-scary ? :P
<Kamion> and we can do 'Origin => Marillat', which is the sort of thing some people may be interested in anyway
<sabdfl> Keybuk: someone might argue that we are recommending things to people based on that classification
<mdz_> universe-you-must-be-this-tall-to-ride-this-ride
<sabdfl> which is why i prefer NO classification
<Kamion> sabdfl: it's not a classification, it's informational
<sabdfl> mdz_: so LA
<sabdfl> Kamion: so is the label on herbal tea, and that can get you sued
<Kamion> the reason it isn't a classification is because the packages aren't segregated on that basis
<Keybuk> sabdfl: is that inherently much different to the nv driver being in main and the nvidia being in restricted?
<mdz_> sabdfl: how about we mark things which came from Debian main with an Origin: tag
<sabdfl> but there we have done a really thorough job of the analysis.
<mdz_> sabdfl: and simply omit that tag from everything else
<Kamion> sabdfl: if something's going to be getting us sued based on what random fields we put next to it in a Packages file, we should be running away from it, not distributing it
<sabdfl> and I don't WANT to do a really thorough job on some of the stuff that I want in universe
<Keybuk> sabdfl: yeah, I guess ... simply saying where it came from doesn't have that problem though?  "Origin: debian contrib" for example?
<Kamion> that's a quotation more than a classification
<mdz_> it wouldn't be necessary, except that it's not particularly easy to determine from the package itself whether or not it came from Debian
<mdz_> or even possible
<mdz_> sabdfl: does a Debian/non-Debian distinction give you any bad feelings?
<sabdfl> mdz_: yes, i'd prefer "known-free" and "something else"
<elmo> known-free is just as dangerous liability-wise
<mdz_> sabdfl: how about if known-free happens to contain only stuff from Debian main?
<elmo> if Debian screws up (and it does - a lot) we're in the same boat
<elmo> if you're worried about liability, Debian-main/everything-else are better IMHO
<sabdfl> mdz_: it will end up carrying more than that, inevitably
<sabdfl> we will end up with potentially a lot more software in universe than in all of debian
<mdz_> sabdfl: it will only carry more than that if we are reviewing licenses of things going into universe
<mdz_> sabdfl: which we won't(?)
<elmo> err, we so will
<elmo> guys, there's 178 packages in non-free
<elmo> it'll take me like an hour or two at most to check those licenses, and I think it'd be unutterably insane to not do so
<elmo> there's avoiding liability and then there's gross negligence
<Kamion> a lot more in universe than in all of debian? it'll take even a crack team of packagers performing no QA at all quite a while to get that far
<Kamion> I can see a few special cases, but it seems we should be encouraging free software wherever possible, so there's no reason why the bulk of things shouldn't be in Debian too
<mdz_> what if we lump everything together
<mdz_> and some random schmo on the Internet publishes a web page with a list of what he thinks is free and what isn't
<sabdfl> mdz_: we'll do some internal review, but the less we advertise and make claims about what's there, the better
<sabdfl> elmo: of course i am happy for that review to happen, so we can find any real problems and weed them out
<mdz_> sabdfl: agreed
<mdz_> sabdfl: someone from the free software community could do such a classification, independently, though
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> and we can put a very rich classification into launchpad, to make it easy for derivatives
<mdz_> which I think would meet the needs of the zeal^Wphilos^Wfreedom fighters
<mdz_> sabdfl: won't the rich classification in launchpad have the same issues?
<sabdfl> i'd prefer "known-free" and "unknown", where in launchpad, unknown trivially lets you read the licence and decide for yourself whether to include that package in your derivative
<sabdfl> i do see the point in "known-free" for 90% of the no-brainer cases out there
<sabdfl> is the text in sources.list suitably scary?
<mdz_> no
<elmo> it needs to be FIGLET scary
<mdz_> ## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch updated software from the network
<mdz_> ## and be able to use more than 12000 unsupported packages from the universe archive.
<sabdfl> my install must be old, there's nothing there at all
<mdz_> it sounds almost tempting
<sabdfl> eek, that sounds ENCOURAGED
<sabdfl> it should be something like:
<mdz_> sabdfl: I have patches from mvo to add scary warnings to synaptic
<elmo> what about dselect/aptitude?
<elmo> or even apt it self?
<mdz_> elmo: comments in sources.list
<elmo> let's offer a bounty to the maintainer of apt!
<sabdfl> # uncomment the following line to add software from the "universe" repository.
<elmo> mdz: that's it ???
<mdz_> elmo: oh, you mean when installing stuff
<mdz_> that's so Hoary
<sabdfl> # NB software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu team
<elmo> I'm going to populate hoary soon, and you guys will have to starty saying "that's so Perky" :-P
<Keybuk> For following NEWS universe packages WHICH ARE ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED YOU FOOL will be installed:
<mdz_> elmo: you're bluffing
<Keybuk> elmo: grumpy
<Keybuk> hmm @ auto-typing
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: "they are not supported in any way, including security updates"
<sabdfl> # and may also not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
<Kamion> sabdfl: if you could file a base-config bug with the text you want, that'd be good ...
<Mithrandir> but scarier.
<sladen> http:/.../ universe non-free non-commerical java distributable ?
<sabdfl> # to your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in universe
<mdz_> (transcribing this into a bug report btw)
<sabdfl> # WILL NOT receive any review and updates from the Ubuntu security team.
<sabdfl> how's that sound?
<mdz_> s/and/or/
<mdz_> and I'm happy
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: I would have it even scarier, if possible.
<sabdfl> Kamion: i'll file a bug on base-config
<mdz_> is "under a free licence" sufficiently descriptive?
<Kamion> sabdfl: thanks
<mdz_> sabdfl: I already filed one
<Mithrandir> and synaptic needs to pop that up before letting you enable the component
<mdz_> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1564
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: agreed
<elmo> is synaptic what you get when you use the menus in gnome?
<sabdfl> really, we are saying "adults only"
<sabdfl> elmo: yes
<mdz_> Keybuk: we'll have the infrastructure for that stuff in apt/aptitude/etc. in Hoary
<sabdfl> new school, kinda
<Kamion> note that we aren't localizing that text in any way
<sabdfl> synaptic will also show ALL universe packages with a clear label (skull and crossbones, i think, was mvo's choice)
<Kamion> that's so NOTWARTY it's untrue, though
<elmo> ?? "get your warez" here?  that's not very _discouraging_ to most people :p
<sabdfl> we didn't manage to get the aptitude guy interested in being able to set a colour based on component though
<sabdfl> now let's be bold about what goes into universe
<mdz_> ok, so the resolution on classification was known-free and "other"?
<mdz_> and we'll update the comments in the default sources.list
<mdz_> and bring in the patches to synaptic with the same text
<mdz_> and also (in synaptic) the supported/unsupported classification in the UI
<Keybuk> sounds reasonable to me
<mdz_> one hour, one agenda item down :-)
<elmo> so, hang on, sorry, am I not even mutilating the section now?
<mdz_> elmo: implementation details :-P
<mdz_> section? origin?
<mdz_> section seems appropriate
<mdz_> since it's _completely useless_ for anything else
<sabdfl> so universe/free and universe/other?
<sabdfl> or universe/free and universe/unknown?
<sabdfl> grrrr...
<mdz_> unknown > other
<Kamion> that's gonna make everything show up in one humungous list in synaptic
<mdz_> Debian sections are not useful for finding software
<Kamion> it won't even be categorized to the fairly minimal extent it is in Debian, and we don't have debtags yet
<sabdfl> please can the standard line just be "universe" and let the philosophers use the free/unknown filter
<mdz_> sabdfl: yes, I don't think the line in sources.list needs to change at all
<sabdfl> Kamion: universe isn't designed to be useful for substantial package selection
<Kamion> the section pretty much has to be universe/something I think
<sabdfl> something?
<mdz_> "something' being the original Debian section
<Kamion> mdz_: that's the current state
<sabdfl> so where's the "free" indicator go, for those that want it?
<mdz_> admin base comm devel doc editors electronics embedded games gnome graphics hamradio interpreters kde libdevel libs mail math misc net news oldlibs otherosfs perl python science shells sound tex text utils web x11 
<mdz_> USELESS
<Kamion> mdz_: more useful than one huge list
<Kamion> it's certainly not very good, but it's better than the absence
<mdz_> is there any point in having the freeness indicator in the archive?
<mdz_> I don't think we have any package management UI in Ubuntu which lets you wear freeness blinders based on anything but sources.list
<mdz_> so it'd be purely informational anyway
<mdz_> X-Ubuntu-Known-Free: yes
<Keybuk> mdz_: the only thing would be the Section ... at least that shows up in the UI
<elmo> yes, AFAICS, we have 3 choices: (a) split universe into universe-known-free and universe-universe, (b) abuse Section, (c) add some random meta-data tag
<mdz_> so is the freeness classification worth giving up the benefits of sections, however marginal?
<elmo> mark hates (a), (b) and (c) are kind of useless, (b) being marginally less so
<mdz_> "what's the use case?"
<elmo> only (a) would come close to actually helping any poor sod who wants to use ubuntu in a commercial environment
<mdz_> if it's "I only want free software on my computer"
<mdz_> then none of those except (a) actually do anything
<elmo> that's not true
<elmo> (b) helps if you don't use apt-get directly
<sabdfl> elmo: how would they enforce that, would they use archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty universe/free ?
<mdz_> (b) helps if you never ever use the command line
<elmo> sabdfl: no, unfortunately, the only way to make it sources.list based is option (a)
<elmo> sources.list/apt-get has no concept of sections, only components
<Kamion> elmo: components can't be multi-level?
<Keybuk> Kamion: not in sources.list ... apt doesn't filter
<elmo> err.. well, I dunno, to be honest.. I suppose katie could - would they work with apt
<elmo> +?
<mdz_> universe/free, you mean?
<Kamion> it'd have to be hyphen rather than slash if you wanted it to be sources.list based then
<mdz_> stable/non-US works fine
<Keybuk> mdz_: but if you put just "stable", you don't get "stable/non-US"
<mdz_> Keybuk: right
<mdz_> if we switch to that, we need to convert everyone's sources.list
<mdz_> which is not out of the question, if it's the right solution otherwise
<Keybuk> so the question really does come, do we want users to be able to select in their sources.list to only get known-free universe packages? yes/no?
<sabdfl> yes, that's the only point i can see to making the distinction in the archive not in launchpad
<mdz_> agreed
<Keybuk> elmo: is it possible for a package to be simultaneously in two or more sections?
<Keybuk> components, sorry
<sabdfl> is there another place we can put a flag that will be displayed in aptitude and synaptic?
<sabdfl> no
<elmo> keybuk: package/version/arch tuple?  no
<elmo> keybuk: package, yes
<elmo> across releases, for example
<mdz_> there's currently noplace we can put a flag which will be visible across all apt frontends
<Keybuk> ok, so if we do it in sources.list we're looking at splitting universe into universe and universe-maybe-not-free/multiverse/whatever?  there's no other way to do that?
<mdz_> if we want to support a useful freeness distinction for the user in universe, it needs to be at the sources.list level
<sabdfl> universe and blackhole
<sabdfl> forget it, this is the mess i was trying to avoid :-)
<sabdfl> (and yes, i know it means there's a whole other kind of mess :-)
<Keybuk> elmo: any suggestions?
<mdz_> we provide a freeness distinction within our supported set
<mdz_> (only)
<sabdfl> how much work would it be to add a header item to the packages file which is displayed in both aptitude and synaptic when you view the package detail?
<elmo> Keybuk: not really?  there is only really creating a separate component available to us as an option at this point in time.. and if sabdfl doesn't want to do to that
<sabdfl> Free-Software: Confirmed
<Keybuk> elmo: having a magic universe-known-free subset component isn't possible?
<sladen> If a package is non-free/non-commerical, I'd prefer if dpkg/apt didn't even know about it;  ...rather than having to get them to filter it out.
<mdz_> sladen: the answer would be, "then don't use universe"
<sabdfl> hmm...
<elmo> keybuk: how is a "magic subset" component different from a simply separate component
<elmo> +?
<mdz_> Debian is in the business of collecting gobs of software and dividing it into free and not free
<mdz_> Ubuntu is in the business of collecting gobs of software and dividing it into supported-free, supported-non-free, and unsupported
<mdz_> that's how it stands today
<mdz_> if our supported set expands to contain a reasonably complete subset of useful software, the distinction becomes less important
<mdz_> but as it stands, Ubuntu supported << Debian main
<Keybuk> yeah, we could possibly add a universe note that if people are continually installing things from universe to discuss with us about making them supported.
<Keybuk> we may have missed something glaringly obvious
<mdz_> Keybuk: making popularity-contest work would be a good start
<mdz_> been meaning to file a bug about that
<sabdfl> my hope is that derivatives will commit to getting stuff that is in universe, that is important to them, supported to the level we require for inclusion in main
<mdz_> Keybuk: it's certain that we've missed some glaringly obvious things; a few have come up already
<sabdfl> then, as mdz points out, main expands to be more useful
<mdz_> if we get to a point where most people can use only supported software, then that will satisfy those who want the distinction as well
<mdz_> they could remove 'restricted'
<mdz_> RMS will never be happy with it
<mdz_> but that's almost a given
<Keybuk> did you read his correspondance with Jeff?  He was actually quite civil
<Keybuk> http://lists.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2004-September/msg00067.html
<mdz_> I blacked out at "GNU slash Linux..."
<mdz_> anyway, there is a decision on the table about whether to subdivide universe
<mdz_> at least, whether to subdivide universe today
<sabdfl> just to clarify, the old division that makes sense, if we do it, is two components
<Keybuk> I don't think we can do it in a useful way today, by the sounds of it
<sabdfl> "universe" and "multiverse"
<sabdfl> s/old/only/
<Keybuk> not without two components anyway
<elmo> what the heck's multiverse?
<sabdfl> elmo: non-free universe
<mdz_> given the lack of a straightforward solution, and hazy user need, I think we can safely defer the decision until post-Warty
<elmo> meh
<mdz_> if we want, we can set up the Hoary archive differently
<mdz_> can we not?
<elmo> what's not straightforward about two components?
<sabdfl> then the apt/sources.list can at least contain meaningful options w.r.t. known-free stuff
<elmo> if we don't want to do it, fine, but let's at least just say that
<sabdfl> elmo: is two components going to take more than an extra day to arrange?
<mdz_> what would we call the components?
<sabdfl> universe and multiverse
<mdz_> by definition there can only be one universe
<elmo> sabdfl: no, not at all, it's just a change in the planto import non-free
<mdz_> multiverse doesn't tell the user anything about what they're asking for
<mdz_> universe-known-free and universe-somethingelse would be my preference
<sabdfl> mdz_: i'm expressly trying to avoid warranties in this regard
<mdz_> sabdfl: known-free was what you said you preferred
<sabdfl> i really think that text should still say "be an adult and check this stuff for yourself"
<sabdfl> i prefer known-free to non-free, since known-free is easier to assure
<mdz_> what I suggested was Debian/non-Debian, which at the same time says nothing explicitly about freeness whatsoever, and provides the same utility for people who expect it from Debian
<mdz_> which is trivial to assure
<mdz_> but, I suppose, that's not useful in a sources.list context because it's tied to Debian
<elmo> universe, universe-non-debian ?
<sabdfl> no, i don't want to have a component based on source
<sabdfl> origin, sorry
<Keybuk> universe-unchecked ?
<elmo> universe-fuckitall
<sabdfl> universe and multiverse. the sources.list text can do the explaining
<sabdfl> i *really* prefer just universe, but let's get a sense of opinions
<elmo> from where/how?
<sabdfl> technically, this is just about mdz, keybuk and me, buti'd like to hear from others
<sabdfl> (a) just universe
<sabdfl> (b) universe and multiverse
<Mithrandir> multiverse is "possibly and surely non-free"?
<sabdfl> what else?
<mdz_> (c) sections
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: yes
<Mithrandir> I'd like b) to happen
<sabdfl> Keybuk: 
<sabdfl> ?
<elmo> I [obviously]  vote (b), for whatever that's worth
<Keybuk> b, I think
<mdz_> (b) is OK with me, except for the multiverse name
<elmo> mdz: is it really any worse than "universe"? 
<mdz_> elmo: universe and multiverse side-by-side? yes, absolutely worse
<npmccallum> the two do seem entirely ambiguous
<mdz_> I think that universe-foo and universe-bar would be clearer
<mdz_> but once a universe is subdivided, it's not a universe anymore :-)
<elmo> that's why multiverse is so cute
<mdz_> anyway, my argument is semantic; I don't have any problems with the component implementation of the distinction
<sabdfl> i think the answer is that universe is "unsupported", period
<sabdfl> launchpad can have exact licence terms
<Mithrandir> mdz_: agree, we can use pwgen-based names for all I care. ;)
<mdz_> as I mentioned before, launchpad answers the needs of derivative distributions, but not of users, at least not directly
<mdz_> but I suppose someone could then create a "frubuntu"
<mdz_> and go about classifying all the software there
<elmo> [are planning on supporting dervitatives who want to dervive "all of universe"? ] 
<mdz_> and they could call it "Frubuntu GNU/Linux", and maybe it really _would_ be possible to please everyone
<mdz_> elmo: derivatives should be able to select any packages they want from universe, up to and including all of it, no?
<elmo> mmk
<sabdfl> elmo: sure
<mdz> that lets us leave universe alone for Warty, and also lets someone else do the work of classifying licenses
<mdz> and leaves room for more than one group of users to make their own classifications
<elmo> they can do that regardless of what we do
<mdz> (d) consider this a use case for a derived distribution
<mdz> (and not for Ubuntu itself)
<sabdfl> i can live with (b)
<sabdfl> i think it's simpler to go with (a) for warty and review for hoary
<Keybuk> yeah, I'm happy with that
<sabdfl> Keybuk: which?
<mdz> it all depends on what fraction of the Debian community considers the freeness bit important to them
<mdz> that subset won't look twice at Ubuntu if it doesn't have a distinction
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I prefer b, but would be happy with a
<mdz> but, I suppose we have a partial answer in main/restricted
<mdz> so a secondary decision is whether or not to do anything about the issue _for Warty_
<sabdfl> mdz: i think everyone considers it important
<elmo> I do think there's community backlack potential when we ship the 178 non-free packages from Debian in 'universe'.. mitigated maybe by a promise to review it for hoary.. *shrug*
<sabdfl> mdz: let's go with b, and just do the work to get the apt sources.list text right
<mdz> ok
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: as well as fixing synaptic. :)
* Mithrandir nags a bit
<sabdfl> i think it's an unnecessary risk
<mdz> elmo says it's no more work, but if the list of elmo's tasks in my head is half as long as the complete one...
<mdz> elmo: speaking of which, remind me later to nag you about access to buildd logs
<elmo> remind you to nag me to do stuff I haven't done yet?  yeah, 'cos _that's_ going to happen :-P
<elmo> (but yes, I know)
<sabdfl> so let's move on guys, time is limited
<mdz> so the consensus is that elmo should carry out (b)
<sabdfl> yes please
<mdz> ok, moving on then
<sabdfl> question: what are the criteria for "universe"? everything else is in "multiverse"?
<mdz> should be the same criteria as for main vs. restricted
<mdz> or, main and not-main
<Keybuk> sabdfl: universe is known to be free, I guess
<elmo> what about contrib?
<sabdfl> yes but how do you define free? dfsg? rms?
<elmo> sabdfl: ours
<sabdfl> ok
<elmo> it's our universe, damn it ;-)
<Keybuk> didn't we have our own guidelines for that?
<Keybuk> same as supported, I'd say
<sabdfl> ok, moving along
<Keybuk> universe is free enough for us, just as supported is ... people with stricter requirements make a perfect derivative distro
<mdz> the ESD issue, I think, was _mostly_ resolved in bugzilla overnight
<Keybuk> mdz: bug#?
<mdz> we should move everything to ESD, except for things which don't support it, and those things just suffer
<Keybuk> the totem/gstreamer thing?
<mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1481
<mdz> gnomemeeting was pointed out as an app which doesn't support esd
<elmo> sorry, -ECONTEXT, why do we want to use ESD?
<sladen> esddsp 
<mdz> elmo: #1481
<Keybuk> elmo: most alsa drivers don't allow concurrent access to /dev/dsp
<mdz> as a means to share the audio device
<Keybuk> if you have sound events on, esd hogs /dev/dsp
<sabdfl> is there a sense of momentum in the sound community on this issue?
<sabdfl> if the world+dog are moving to ALSA-native, we should not go in the other direction
<mdz> I think the momentum is in favour of sound hardware which can do mixing on its own, but it's not widespread yet
<mdz> it's a hardware issue that needs a software solution
<sabdfl> hardly seems fair to require hardware changes
<mdz> I don't think that ALSA-native buys us anything over OSS-ALSA in this case
<Mithrandir> oss-alsa is actually a fairly nice solution, IME.
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I think you get the same problem alsa-native anyway
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: that depends on your hardware.
<Keybuk> esd sounds like a reasonably warty solution to me; it may be worth getting someone to talk to (e.g.) the Fluendo guys on the hoary timeframe to see if there's a "better way" ?
<mdz> there are some vague rumblings about libasound doing software mixing, but I can't see how it could be implemente dalready
<Mithrandir> mdz: it's also rumored to suck badly
<sladen> mdz: (Its ugly), but have gnomemeeting depend on esound-clients and  wrap gnomemeeting with   esddsp gnomemeeting
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: certainly I get the same problem with alsa-native on my desktop ... but don't get either problem on my laptop :(
<seb128> GNOME guys would like to kill esd I think
<mdz> it would require some IPC facility which doesn't exist
<mdz> esd can't die until something replaces it, though
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: my desktop has a decent sound card; I have hardware mixing on all my desktops, but not my laptop, I think.
<mdz> software mixing in kernelspace sounds unlikely to happen
<mdz> so when it is re-solved in userspace, it will probably be via the alsa API
<mdz> people who have hardware mixing aren't hurt by ESD
<mdz> and it helps people who don't
<mdz> my laptop seems to have hardware mixing
<mdz> at least, it allows multiple opens of /dev/dsp
<elmo> mdz: that's not true, esd does interesting things to my desktop machine
* sladen also has to run ESD on his laptop since the audio hardware can /only/ do 44100Hz, so have to use esd to do resampling
<mdz> elmo: such as what?
<seb128> the problem is that esd is not really in a good state and not really maintained
<elmo> mdz: hmm, it's been a while since I stopped using it.. but initially, I think it just didn't work at all.. even after Ryan hacked around that, it would hang on signficant load
<Mithrandir> seb128: got a better suggestion?
<mdz> seb128: what is upstream's recommendation?
<seb128> no, we are stucked with it for the moment ...
<mdz> ok, so we have no choice.  sounds like we don't need to take an explicit decision
<sabdfl> done. next.
<seb128> mdz: keep using esd for the moment since there is nothing else in this area
<mdz> a more pressing issue is what to do about the effect that the automounting magic has had on desktop usability
<seb128> if you want to have sound events
<mdz> and our other desktop changes
<mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=980
<seb128> but I think that most of the GNOME guys just don't use sound events
<mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1234
<mdz> there is a usability issue in that users have no discoverable way to unmount things which get automounted
<mdz> and there is a functionality issue in that it interferes with CD burning
<mdz> the former issue arose because we removed the volume icons on the desktop without providing a replacement
<sabdfl> guys i have to step away at this point, please send me the logs
<mdz> sabdfl: before you go, your opinion for the record on restoring the volume icons on the desktop when things are automounted?
<mdz> that is by far the simplest solution
<mdz> ok, guess I missed him
<mdz> other opinions?
<Keybuk> tricky ... we seem to be getting positive feedback for not having the desktop icons ... but I do feel we need some immediate visual indication somewhere on screen that there's a CD mounted
<mdz> the consensus long-term solution in Oxford was to have a tray icon
<mdz> but unless someone can build that and have it stable for Warty final, we need an interim solution
<mdz> (tray icon? notification icon? whatever they're called)
<Keybuk> on a three week timescale?  I don't think that's doable :(
<npmccallum> mdz: it won't be able to be stable by final
<seb128> no, that's not
<Keybuk> mdz: "applets" if you listen to Novell <g>
<mdz> any proposals other than restoring the volume icons?
<seb128> no ...
<npmccallum> no
<mdz> auto-unmounting when nautilus is closed?
<mdz> menu item in nautilus window?
<npmccallum> too risky at this stage
<npmccallum> (the first one that is)
<seb128> menu item no
<Keybuk> not enough testing :-/  stuff like that needed to be done by freeze to get enough wide-testing for warty
<seb128> agreed
<mdz> thing is, I think if sabdfl were here, he would veto the icons
<Kamion> I'm not sure auto-unmounting is very good UI either
<seb128> if somebody has idea for the umount when all the windows are closed ...
<Keybuk> Kamion: mounting/unmounting in *general* is not good UI :-(
<mdz> Kamion: agreed, it makes for an awkward transition to the long-term solution too
<Kamion> seb128: that would only be good UI if there were a discoverable way to mount it again without having to eject/reinsert
<sladen> volume items on the desktop---for automounted items only---seems logical for me as a user;  and sensibile given the time constaints and having already been tested
<seb128> Kamion: true
<mdz> consensus, given release constraints, is that the icons need to come back
<Keybuk> Kamion: indeed, it would need to be unmount & eject for CDs
<mdz> but we need a fallback position given that sabdfl hasn't spoken on this
<Keybuk> which is actually kinda cute <g>  you don't need to unmount usb devices because they can be pulled out manually
<seb128> just having computer place for this is that bad ?
<Keybuk> but anyway
<mdz> and I know he feels strongly about this subject
<Keybuk> seb128: computer/disks is a bit hard to find
<mdz> seb128: the problem is that users can't find it
<mdz> because there is no indication on the screen when they insert something
<seb128> write in BIG in the doc :)
<Keybuk> and until you find it, you really can't eject a CD
<mdz> there is nothing to lead them there
<Keybuk> seb128: who reads them?
<mdz> and ejecting a CD is a damn common use case :-)
<seb128> Keybuk: we don't have any good solution ...
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I wish Mark hadn't wandered off at this exact point because he does have quite strong ideas about this area :-
<seb128> so just umount when all the windows are closed
<sabdfl> voice of sabdfl from a distance.... "can we get them on the desktop for automounted ones only? so nothing there till you automount it..?"
<seb128> so at least you can eject CD with the button
<npmccallum> yes
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> i don't know how you eject a cd from windows, without pressing the hardware button
<Keybuk> sabdfl: as I understand it, yes; you'd only see CD/USB devices on the desktop
<npmccallum> sabdfl: right click, eject
<mdz> sabdfl: that's precisely what we're proposing
<sabdfl> "ugly, this is"
<mdz> empty desktop except when you insert a CD or hotplug something
<sabdfl> how do you feel about going with that for warty and fix it for panel in hoary?
<npmccallum> mdz: if there is a floppy drive in fstab, I'm pretty sure it will show up on the desktop
<mdz> that would be my preference
<Keybuk> yeah, I'd say that's the best we can do
<seb128> mine too
<mdz> npmccallum: oh?  we can probably fix that
<mdz> seb128: what's the gconf magic to turn it on? I'll try right now
<Kamion> seb128: not to be a powermac weenie, but what button? :)
<mdz> Kamion: the "F12" button
<sladen> npmccallum: floppy drives are a pain, since on x86 there's no way to get insert/eject notification
<Kamion> mdz: in theory ...
<npmccallum> sladen: yes, I hate them
<seb128> mdz: /apps/nautilus/desktop/volumes_visible
<mdz> I'm more than happy to hide the floppy away
<sabdfl> i agree on the understanding the desktop is empty on boot, until something is explicitly automounted
<npmccallum> we can hide the floppy I'm sure
<npmccallum> thats a lot less intrusive than the other stuff
<seb128> yes, should be easy to do
<sabdfl> cheers guys. community council next week.
<Keybuk> hrm, I don't have a floppy icon on my desktop until I mount the floppy
<npmccallum> Keybuk: is it in fstab?
<seb128> that's the right behaviour
<Keybuk> npmccallum: yes
<seb128> only mounted devices
<Keybuk> /dev/fd0        /floppy         auto    rw,users,noauto,sync            0 0
<sladen> only _user_ mounted devices
<seb128> yes
<mdz> seb128: I did gconftool-2 --type boolean -s /apps/nautilus/desktop/volumes_visible 1
<mdz> and it doesn' tseem to have had an effect
<seb128> nautilus manages your desktop ?
<mdz> stock Warty
<Keybuk> mdz: unless you have something mounted, you shouldn't see anything
<mdz> Keybuk: I inserted a CD
<mdz> and nautilus opened with it
<mdz> but no icon
<sladen> mdz: s/1/true/ ?
<seb128> no, 1 is fine
<mdz> do I need to log out or something?
<seb128> no
<mdz> ah, there it is
<mdz> I re-ran it with true
<mdz> ejected, inserted
<mdz> and there it is
<mdz> ok
<mdz> and no floppy
<mdz> so, let's do that for Warty
<seb128> ok
<mdz> seb128: will you take care of it?
<npmccallum> I already did it
<mdz> ok
<seb128> mdz: yes. Could you just open a bug to keep the trace ?
<npmccallum> just waiting for upload
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> fine
<mdz> npmccallum: go ahead, if that's the only change
<npmccallum> yup
<mdz> just removing the patch from debian/patches, right?
<npmccallum> edited it -- cut out the section refering to volume icons only
<Keybuk> yeah, it works for me too here; only the mounted stuff shows up, there's no icon for the cd or floppy when not mounted
<mdz> ok
<mdz> moving on, we have the CD burning issue
<mdz> if you've burned CD-RWs with nautilus in Warty, you know what I'm talking about
<Keybuk> is this issue when you insert a blank CD?  or when you want to write over top of a CD you've just inserted that's got stuff on it?
<mdz> Keybuk: only when the CD has stuff on it
<mdz> hence CD-RW
<Keybuk> can't nautilus' cd burner unmount the thing itself?
<mdz> you insert the CD, and it gets mounted and nautilus opens
<mdz> dunno
<mdz> seb128, npmccallum: ?
<Keybuk> that seems the most logical ... user-wise you probably *do* want the window open to check you're about to write over the right CD
<npmccallum> it can unmount it, the problem is it automatically gets mounted again on burn completion (if that is a problem)
<Keybuk> then when you go to write, the burner app should unmount it
<mdz> the other problem is that, even if you unmount it, then it gets mounted again _during_ and after the burning process
<mdz> at least for me
<Keybuk> npmccallum: getting unmounted after burning sounds right?  check it burnt ok?
<seb128> my cd writer is out of order, I've not really played with n-c-b ...
<Keybuk> during would be broken though?
<sladen> mdz: unmount + eject
<Keybuk> npmccallum: does the window pop up after it's finished burning?
<mdz> ideally, it should unmount at start, prevent mountitng during, and eject after
<Kamion> even if you *can* unmount it ... last time I tried, I only had an "Eject" entry on the right-click menu, no "Unmount"
<npmccallum> Keybuk: I believe so
<mdz> if the user wants to check it, they can close the CD tray
<Keybuk> Kamion: eject is friendlier anyway
<mdz> Kamion: my sr0 has an 'unmount'
* Kamion would also prefer it to eject
<mdz> and when i unmount, the icon goes away
<Kamion> Keybuk: not if you're trying to burn (say I want to do something strange and therefore want to use cdrecord)
<mdz> so there's no place for an eject
<npmccallum> keeping it from mounting during burn is the bugger
<mdz> there is a separate issue of the command line
<mdz> it is very irritating to mount something on the command-line and have it pop up in nautilus on top of your terminal
<Keybuk> Kamion: if you're doing that, I'd expect you'd know to unmount it first
<Keybuk> what decisions need to be made here?  before we wander too much
<mdz> the decision to be made is what to do about CD burning
<mdz> because that is a real use case which is in bad shape right now
<mdz> options:
<mdz> (a) work around it in nautilus-cd-burner as best we can
<mdz> (b) implement a locking facility in pmount (pitti has written the code for this already)
<mdz> (c) use locking in HAL, which upstream has in CVS
<mdz> (b) and (c) are sketchy given the release
<Keybuk> seb128, npmccallum: you're suggestions?
<mdz> locking never gets implemented correctly the first time
<seb128> I can have a look on (a) tomorrow
<npmccallum> c is out, I don't want to pull cvs in at this point
<Keybuk> this is an upstream-affecting bug as well?  there's nothing too magic about our g-v-m/nautilus other than we open windows?
<npmccallum> could we have whatever calls n-cd-b stop gvm and restart gvm when finished?
<npmccallum> Keybuk: the open windows is upstream now
<seb128> sorry guys I've to go now
<npmccallum> seb128: see ya
<Keybuk> seb128: thanks! have fun
<seb128> I'll read the log, I can talk with n-c-b upstream about this tomorrow if you want
<mdz> seb128: I'll assign the bug to you
<seb128> ok fine
<sladen> npmccallum: what's the case when another volume is inserted whilst gvm is stoppped?  Would gvm then be out of sync after it's restarted?
<seb128> good evening guys
<npmccallum> sladen: it only handles events
<Keybuk> I don't have any major suggestions, I don't own a burner so haven't ever really tried that stuff out and seen the issues :-/
<npmccallum> sladen: so if gvm is stopped, it won't receive the event
<npmccallum> sladen: the events aren't cached
<Keybuk> it sounds to me like there's a whole pile of hal "I'm using this" embargo stuff that needs to be done here though
<mdz> ok, the only other thing I had on the agenda is a bit of an excuse to get several people together to talk about what is otherwise not a technical-board-scoped sort of bug
<mdz> Keybuk: that's happening upstream
<mdz> anyway, we have a mess with spell checking and dictionary stuff in warty at the moment
<mdz> spell checking doesn't seem to work in openoffice, evolution and such out of the box
<mdz> there are about 40 different spell checking libraries all with their own dictionaries
<mdz> and we need someone to own that problem and figure out what needs to be done
<Keybuk> spell checking in *general* is a bit of a mess
<mdz> volunteers?
* Mithrandir wibbles slightly.
<mdz> Mithrandir: if you want it, I'm more than willing to give it, but it's a bit out of scope
<Mithrandir> I could do it.. I have a bit of experience with it as I maintain the norwegian package in Debian
<mdz> npmccallum: will you work with Mithrandir on this?
<Mithrandir> mdz: "want", isn't exactly the word. :P  It's a hairy issue.
<npmccallum> mdz: I have a bunch of bugs right now.  I'm happy to take any patches to ooo, but can't really work on it per se
<sladen> what's the long-term goal here?  Hack the various spelling libraries all to use the same backend database?
<mdz> npmccallum: currently, you and martin have the fewest RC bugs
<sladen> or have one database file and transcode that into the format for each library?
<mdz> let's not talk about long term just yet :-)
<mdz> for Warty, we just need for spell checking to work
<Mithrandir> sladen: it's fairly easy to generate word lists if you have ispell lists.
<Mithrandir> for the different brands of checkers
<sladen> is the simple answer of just shipping the 20 different libraries and their backends okay.  Might work for English, not sure about others as there is unlikely to be a full set of data files for each library in each language
<mdz> npmccallum: are you working on issues which you feel are RC but not reflected that way in bugzilla?
<npmccallum> mdz: I have no idea how the spell checking even works, though I can try to learn it
<Mithrandir> sladen: : tfheen@yiwaz ~ > apt-cache showsrc norwegian | grep ^Binary
<Mithrandir> Binary: inorwegian, myspell-nb, aspell-no, myspell-nn, wnorwegian
<mdz> I don't think anyone has a handle on it at this point; that's the problem
<npmccallum> mdz: I also have a batch of initscripts which mark found that have to get done (not filed in bugzilla yet)
<Kamion> there's the issue of installing the proper set of dictionaries for the selected language, too
<mdz> npmccallum: please file them
<npmccallum> mdz: will do
<mdz> Kamion: yes, but if we could have english spell checking working, that't be a start
<Kamion> mdz: right
<sladen> Mithrandir: okay, next question, were you able to automatically generate those (from one source) when you created the packages?
<mdz> ok, not everyone is represented here; we'll take this offline
<npmccallum> mdz: let me get those initscripts whittled down and I'll be glad to work on the dictionary stuff, I just don't want someone else to take if they have the know how and the time
<mdz> Mithrandir: I want someone full-time to work on the issue with you
<Mithrandir> sladen: yes.  I'm not fucking crazy out of my mind.  Only slightly so.
<Mithrandir> mdz: ok
<mdz> any other issues to raise before we close the meeting?
<sladen> Mithrandir: ah ha!  So there's already code to do that?
<Mithrandir> sladen: 
<Mithrandir>         cat norsk.mch | ispell -d ./norsk -e | \
<Mithrandir>         perl -lane 'for (@F) {s/"(.)/$1$1-/g; print; s/($1)$1-/$1/g; print }'|\
<Keybuk> mdz: we're meeting every two weeks at about the same time?
<Mithrandir>         aspell --local-data-dir=`pwd` --lang=nb create master ./nb.rws
<Mithrandir> and
<Mithrandir>         ( wc -l words.norsk; cat words.norsk ) > nb_NO.mydict
<Mithrandir>         ispellaff2myspell --charset=latin1 --split=200 --myheader=debian/nb_NO.myheader norsk.aff > nb_NO.myaff
<Mithrandir> ugly but works.
<mdz> Keybuk: it sounds like we should adjust the time
<mdz> given that Jeff wasn't able to show
<mdz> but yes, every two weeks
<mdz> hopefully most will be shorter than this
<Keybuk> should we have a mailing list for pre-suggesting stuff, or just stay with a wiki page?
<Mithrandir> it would be nice if we could schedule them a bit more than ten minutes in advance -- at least that's how I saw it. (Only saw it on IRC)
<mdz> wiki and/or ubuntu-devel seems fine for now
<mdz> Mithrandir: yes, we'll get into a regular schedule
<mdz> probably on the same day and time every two weeks
<mdz> and announced to ubuntu-devel
<Mithrandir> great.
<Keybuk> *nods*
<Mithrandir> should we have an ubuntu-devel-announce?
<mdz> ubuntu-devel is very low-traffic right now; maybe later
<Mithrandir> ook
<mdz> I think it has something to do with the fact that we haven't announced it anywhere except the mailman page ;-)
<mdz> but the signal/noise is delicious right now
<Keybuk> heh, I admit that I can't keep up with -users at the moment
<mdz> Keybuk: yeah, it didn't take long, did it?
<mdz> it's up to about 200 messages/day already
<mdz> anyway, meeting adjourned, further chitchat to #ubuntu.*
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<Keybuk> yay, I can get up off the kitchen floor now and head for the gym <g>
#ubuntu-meeting 2004-10-03
<dieman> so...
<dieman> ack
<dieman> wrongchan
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-03
<sabdfl> i think its documented in the wiki
<arzajac> Travis Newman, too.
<\sh> sabdfl: that's easy to implement in php
<ubuntugeek> jdodson: sorry..
<sabdfl> somewhere
<jdodson> ubuntugeek: i am a software engineer by trade.
* dand also offers to help
<Nafallo> sabdfl: does that include ubuntu-se.org? :-)
<jdodson> ubuntugeek: ah, right, that whole, you dont like me thing...:)
<sabdfl> cool. jdodson, if you and \sh and spiv could work on it in #launchpad, we can have this done in a week or two, max
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: ok so back on topic, we know we need to integrate..
<sabdfl> ok. some questions
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, don't let personal feelings interfere with being a moderator...
<Seveas> or administrator
<sabdfl> "split personality that is looking familiar" what's that all about?
<\sh> sabdfl: as the specs are on LP wiki no problem...(again something on my TODO *sigh*)
<jdodson> ubuntgeek: personal feelings and harsh emotions are why we are here in the first place, right?
<Kamion> jdodson: seems best not to rub people's faces in disagreements ... they get resolved quicker if you don't bring them up all the time, IME :)
<Kamion> although I know we're here to deal with this one
<ubuntugeek> kamion: agreed..
<jdodson> Kamion: ah right, good point.  
<jdodson> sorry.
<jdodson> i wasnt expecting christmas presents anyway....
<sabdfl> anybody know what that comment was referring to?
<Kamion> sabdfl: sorry, where's that from?
<smurf> jdodson: sometimes people do need to be reminded that this is supposed not to be kindergarten... "I don't want to play with you any more. Ever!"
<jdodson> smurf: fair enough.
<sabdfl> http://apqi.com/ubuntu/ubuntuforums/ustoo1.html  #12
<sabdfl> Kamion: ^
<Kamion> ah, that, yes
<Kamion> is KiwiNZ here?
<\sh> jdodson: please ping me tomorrow somehow (what TZ are u from?) and have a look on this: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/AuthServer , thx
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I wasnt part of that conversation on the forum so I am not sure as to what this means.. I dont this he is..
<sabdfl> guys, in a loose and volunteer team, there's always disagreements, and always churn
<jdodson> \sh: no problem.
<sabdfl> people come in, have fun, get tired, and leave
<jdodson> \sh: PST
<sabdfl> and the main thing is to try and focus on the things that you enjoy together
<arzajac> I think kiwi was worried that Ubuntu was becoming "corporate"
<\sh> jdodson: k..ping me whenever you're online or mail me at sh@sourcecode.de
<sabdfl> arzajac: well, i hope that corporates like ubuntu, because they will help make it sustainable. but we will also push back hard enough to keep it free, and open
<sabdfl> at least, thats the plan
<sabdfl> one thing that concerns me is this
<sabdfl> the moderators / admins in the forums are kind of critical to the ubuntu community
<Kamion> arzajac: (sabdfl posted an interesting "sabdfl faq" on sounder@ recently about that)
<jdodson> sabdfl: ah yes, that thread was written around the time the admins were starting to dislike ubuntu proper(thats you) and getting pretty bitter about what you were doing, etc.
<arzajac> You would have to talk to him about it.  I agree with you.
<sabdfl> but there were obviously a lot of outstanding questions among them that were not raise in the CC, or ubuntu-dev
<Seveas> They should simply have asked instead of guessed
<jdodson> sabdfl: the admins are mostly reactive and not terrible proactive in the area of confrontation.
<sabdfl> i don't doubt that i can get up people's noses
<arzajac> They followed Ryan
<sabdfl> but what concerns me is that these doubts and concerns were not aired here, with me and the cc and the core devs, sooner
<Simira> why were they there in the first place, if they dislike the ubuntu community? I thought the community was an essential part here...?
<Nafallo> Simira++
<sabdfl> if we want to have the forums team feel part of THIS team, then we need to have better comms
<arzajac> No one really knoew what the relationship between Ubuntu proper and the forums was, back then.
<sabdfl> Simira: it's somewhat natural
<Kamion> there seemed to be a fair bit of guesswork going on on all sides
<jdodson> sabdfl: i totally agree with you.
<sabdfl> as the community gets bigger, you can get micro-communities forming
<sabdfl> and diverging
<ubuntugeek> kamion: there is guess work.. its all speculation.
<sabdfl> that guesswork turned into strongly help opinions without any real attempt to get clarity
<\sh> moon, money, jealous
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: agreed..
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: some speculation, though, can be turned into fact by asking :)
<Simira> I would consider the admins/mods to be a part of the community, whether they like it or not...
<sabdfl> so i guess the one thing i would say is that ubuntugeek, Seveas, kassetra and others should feel free to participate in the CC meetings
<sabdfl> that way we are likely to have fewer miscommunications
<Seveas> sabdfl, i'm no forum member
<ubuntugeek> I dont think I personall every considered myself not part of the community or i would have not poored the last 11 months of my life into the forums.
<Seveas> I really dislike them
<\sh> Seveas: now u are ;)
<Seveas> (forums in general I mean)
<Kamion> Seveas: I thought you described yourself earlier as an "impartial moderator"?
<sabdfl> and when we disagree, at least we will know we are really disagreeing, not just getting suspicious that we SHOULD be disagreeing
<Seveas> Kamion, I was a bit unclear there
<Kamion> Seveas: oh, sorry, you were quoting somebody else
<thoreauputic> Kamion: I think he was quoting
<Seveas> I've been talking to one for over an hour about this :)
<Seveas> in fact, close to 2 hours
<bored2k> join #motu
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: true
<bored2k> mybad
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: are you open to inviting some of the "fired" moderators back into the fold, to see if this is reparable?
<sabdfl> is my bandwidth gone again?
<Seveas> no
<ogra> ...
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: typing sec 
<Seveas> for the record: both other toopics on the agenda have been handled already, this is the last topic for today
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek, i fear my client will cut of anything else you try to get one this one line :-)
<arzajac> Seveas:  Would you like to defer my membership application untill the next meeting?
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I dont think bring them back as moderators will solve any issues, I encourage them to be part of forums community though..
<sabdfl> arzajac: sec
<Seveas> arzajac, ehrm, right, forgot that
<jdodson> ubuntugeek: so thats a no then?
<arzajac> Seveas:  It is fine....  I really got to run... Wife is mad...  Supper not on table...
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, why do you think that?
<jdodson> arzajac: later azz!
<Simira> hm, well... bed time here. Be nice, people.
<sabdfl> arzajac: hold on a sec, i would +1 you for membership
<ubuntugeek> seaves
<sabdfl> on the basis of a long and sustained contribution
<sabdfl> clear commitment, even if there have been disagreements along the way
<sabdfl> membership is open to everybody who contributes and participates
<Seveas> sabdfl, I think it's ok to do that in his absence, has happened before
<sabdfl> ok
<ubuntugeek> seveas: Because, I will not subject myself or the other moderators to this situation again.
* arzajac picks up screaming toddler and says goodby and thanks!
<\sh> sabdfl: should your idea of a forum council apply to all forums, doing official support for ubuntu?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, no disrespect, but you are both victim and cause of this, just like all others in this discussion
<smurf> ubuntugeek: I don't think you can prevent that by excluding them, nor do I think the reverse is likely to be true
<Seveas> I see no right or wrong here, just a (big) disagreement on things
<sabdfl> \sh: i think any large community should have internal structures, that involve discussion and a chance to be heard fairly and openly
<ubuntugeek> sveas: I would disagree with that statement..
<sabdfl> and then be able to refer issues to the CC if they can't reach agreement
<sabdfl> i think the "founder" or leader of a forum/community/group should have an extra say, but not a total say
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, then please make all archived posts visible to us, so we can get a better view
<\sh> sabdfl: so, actually it would be better to handle some "problems" internally with a fair result?
<Seveas> the limited view both parties here give us really prevents a clear insight into the problem
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: i think its fair criticism that you've sometimes tended to act in a way that ratchets up the tension, rather than creating space for disagreement
<sabdfl> please take that as constructive criticism
<sabdfl> running a group like this is extremely hard
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: thats fine.. I do work 60 hours a week 
<sabdfl> the guys who've had to put up with me for weeks at a stretch in sprints in foreign climes will tell you i can get a bit testy myself
<Seveas> who doesn't get testy at times :)
<sabdfl> i do think its worth being able to tolerate people and opinions that are irritating and frustrating sometimes
<sabdfl> even if it bites
<sabdfl> because often those same people make huge contributions elsewhere
<titus`> in ubuntufr we have a mailing list for forum moderators and it works fine
<sabdfl> it seems like all the guys who have been moderators and admins at one time or another, made HUGE contributions of time and energy
<ubuntugeek> So, I have no problem with a forum dispute team that will handle forum complaints. I think any complaints should be brought up to the CC regardless if they were resolved or not resolve by the dispute team.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: that could be unmanageable
<smurf> To be fair, sometimes people just plain don't get along with each other, but I don't think that's the core problem here, based on what I've read.
<sabdfl> and if the forum dispute team has good credibility, people will respect its decisions
<sabdfl> that's your challenge
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: ok agreed..
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, a forum dispute team where people are explicitely denied access based on this dispute is doomed to fail imho
<sabdfl> it seems the major disagreements here were:
<smurf> Seveas: +1
<\sh> guys, I would propose u a nice article of Matt Dillon, Maintainer and founder of the DragonFly BSD port. http://solobsd.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=252
<ubuntugeek> I would like to however state, if the old moderators would like to join a team on the forums they can. Teams are being setup to tackle certain areas of the forums, for example hardware, software, kde, gnome etc..
<sabdfl>   (1) deleting posts that were deemed too controversial
<\sh> read about "teamleading, project leading" quite nice and very true
<ubuntugeek> Seveas: who said the people would not have access?
<sabdfl>     => CoC and general Ubuntu policy would suggest that these should be re-published
<sabdfl>  (2) suspicions and different viewpoints on the role of canonical and the management of ubuntu
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, those teams looks like a nice plan 
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: if that were treated as a way to rebuild trust, that could be good
<ubuntugeek> kamion: agreed
<Kamion> (if both sides have the will)
<sabdfl>    => those should be brought to the CC or ubuntu-devel, at least so that opinions can be based on real statements rather than suspicions
<Seveas> +2 on sabdfls points
<sabdfl>   (3) failure of the CoC to give clear guidelines on forums type issues
<sabdfl>     => we can ask this Forums Council to draft a document that addresses this
<sabdfl> that's all i can see
<sivang> night all, gotta hit bed
<\sh> cu around sivang 
<Seveas> sabdfl, firing moderators based on personal disagreements is also highly controversial
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: it's your call, but i would strongly urge you to invite these guys back into a forums council
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: note taken
<sabdfl> and see if you can find a way to work through things
<jdodson> ubuntgeek: so does that mean no then Ryan?
<sabdfl> if you can, you will create a very vibrant and widely trusted community council
<sabdfl> jdodson: let him think about it
<jdodson> sabdfl: fair enough.
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I need to think this over.. This has been my passion for the last 11 months and I am not sure I am willing to repeat this.
<sabdfl> jdodson: and recognise that perhaps you could make it easier to be forgiven ;-)
<smurf> Both "sides" need to do some soul searching here... take your time.
<jdodson> sabdfl: right.
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: ok. will you agree to some sort of structure?
<sabdfl> need to say (a) who starts on it, (b) how long they serve, (c) how to get new people onto it
<sabdfl> i dont think you should get to fire people once they are on for a term
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: yes, I think we need to create a dispute team. I will write up the policy etc next week..
<sabdfl> draft it, bring it here. and you'll get a definite GO if you can get consensus amongst your former colleagues too
<sabdfl> ok
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I will not have time this week, as I am traveling to seattle for a death in the family. But next week we will begin this process.
<sabdfl> that's enough for tonight, i think
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: that's fine
<ogra> STOP
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, will you be able to bring it to the next CC?
<Seveas> sabdfl, one more thing
<ogra> since we got the forum admins here
<sabdfl> and i want to say again that we all owe a huge debt of gratitude for ubuntugeek's effort
<ubuntugeek> seveas: when is the next meeting date?
<Seveas> arzajac's membership
<jdodson> yes i agree, ubuntgeek is to be commended on his efforts.
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, 2 weeks from now, probably 14:00 UTC
<sabdfl> +1 from me
<ubuntugeek> seveas: yes it will be done
<smurf> ubuntugeek: ++
<Seveas> elmo, Kamion, would you mind giving your vote in his absence?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, please fix the gateway to the mailinglist first ;)
<sabdfl> he's put a huge amount of time into the forums, with varying levels of success :-)
<ubuntugeek> seveas: whats it doing?
<ubuntugeek> I would also like to thank jdong and kassetra and the other moderators for their commitment to the forums as well.
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, no spam filtering and it gives everyone the name 'Forum Post'
<ogra> another thing....
<ubuntugeek> sevas: Yes, spam filtering in the next week.. I got the OK from jeff waugh on the forum post issue until it can be recoded..
<ogra> ubuntugeek, afaik the initial planned setup for the ubuntu-devel mailing list was a read only portal, could you make that happen soon please
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, if you can mail be the scripts responsible for incoming and outgoing mail, i'd be happy to provide patches
<elmo> Seveas: 14 UTC is fine by me, but that's very early for mako
<sabdfl> our student friends don;t rise and shine before nine...
<Seveas> not true
<ogra> many devs arent even reading -devel anymore due to the high signal to noise ration....
<Seveas> make that noon :)
<nybble>  lol sabdfl
<elmo> ogra: be fair - -devel has S/N problems with or without forum posts
<ogra> *ratio
<ogra> elmo, they add it up
<ubuntugeek> Ok folks we done for the night? The dispute team policy will be available online for the next CC meeting..
<jdong> ogra: I don't think that's caused by the forums
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, nice
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: could you turn off the -devel list <=> forums altogether for the moment?
<ogra> jdong, i'd say 50% are
<Seveas> elmo, Kamion, no vote about arzajac?
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: yes I can turn it off..
<sabdfl> need to guard -devel jealously
<ogra> jdong, ubuntugeek, and it was the agreed default setup afaik
<ogra> ah, thanks sabdfl ...
<Kamion> Seveas: I think I'd rather he came back and we can have the opportunity to check that he's still feeling ok about the community
<ogra> lagging 
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: i'll unsubscribe from the mailing list and make the forum read only for the time being
<Kamion> I don't object to his membership, just would like to talk to him outside the context of a dispute
<ogra> ubuntugeek, thans a lot :)
<sabdfl> Kamion: i think he's fine with the community, just a bit mad with how things worked out between the forums admins
<sabdfl> and recoverably so
<jdong> ubuntugeek: better to hide it altoegether to avoid confusion
<sabdfl> he's done a lot
<ubuntugeek> jdong: good point
<sabdfl> and membership would recognise that
<Seveas> arzajac is still active on the forums
<sabdfl>  </soapbox>
<Kamion> sabdfl: hmm
<Seveas> and won't let this dispute interfere with that
<jdong> seveas: absolutely; great guy to have around :)
<Kamion> ok, yeah, I can see that; I'll let you argue me round :)
<Kamion> arzajac++
<ubuntugeek> I would like to mention one thing azz is still very active on the forums and i commend him for his dedicated to helping on there.
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: that's good to know, thanks
<Seveas> ok, 2 down :)
<jdong> absolutely; Azz still does great work for us
<elmo> yeah, ack I guess
<sabdfl> ok. seveas will you pass that on please?
<sabdfl> arzajac: congratulations, and welcome aboard
<Seveas> arzajac, congratz, hope you read it in your logs :)
<Seveas> I'll edit the wiki again
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: (I certainly don't have a problem with a read-only forum - it's entirely up to you how/if that's presented IMHO)
<Kamion> er, you => you guys
<nybble>  /msg arzajac congratulations :D
<ubuntugeek> kamion: I'll remove it for now..
<nybble> hehe
<ubuntugeek> kamion: it will be in a few hours though..
<Kamion> approved arzajac in LP
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks all
<Seveas> it's been a long one
<ubuntugeek> thanks everyone for resolving this is a clean matter
<ogra> thanks sabdfl 
<sabdfl> Seveas: thanks
<dholbach> thank you
<Kamion> and for the record, I approved the folks Seveas mentioned in the agenda in LP just before the meeting started
<ubuntugeek> hey one last thing
<ubuntugeek> :)
<elmo> and they have email already
<ubuntugeek> jdong, kassetra and myself have all been approved members but are not listed..
<Kamion> if there's anyone else, please /msg and/or mail me about them and I'll check IRC logs and such to verify, then approve
<\sh> that reminds me to put my @ubuntu.com mail address to my gpg key
<Seveas> Kamion, I've mailed everyone on that list :)
* bddebian still doesn't have @ubuntu.com e-mail
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: have you applied to join the team in launchpad? https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers
<jdong> \sh: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=374236 may please you :)
<Seveas> bddebian, if you're a member you have
<ogra> \sh, and sign your packages with it ;)
<Seveas> it's your launchpad name
<jdong> Seveas: I don't either :-/
<bddebian> Seveas: It doesn't work
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: that needs to happen or we can't approve you
<ubuntugeek> kamion: not there no.. i'll do so
<Kamion> ubuntugeek: ok, thanks
<Kamion> Seveas: I can check for each one without needing to ask them, although it takes a little time because we've got behind
<dholbach> good night everybody
<\sh> jdong: ah ;) well... and this is "sorry jdong" for you :) http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/109-Shout-it,-shout-it,-shout-it-out-loud....html
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: are you NOT A MEMBER?
<ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I was voted in a few months ago but nothing ever happened with it
<\sh> ogra: nope...sh@sourcecode.de i am and will ever sign ;) 
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: ok. now we have those bits of LP :-)
<ogra> ubuntugeek, have you sent your signed CoC ?
<ogra> back then that is
<sabdfl> you need to join the ubuntumembers team there, and then do the CoC signing dance
<Seveas> Kamion, the rest of them (except for one of whom i'm not sure) are not members
<Seveas> I;ll poke him before the next meeting
<ubuntugeek> sabdl: ok will do that there
<ubuntugeek> same with jdong and kassetra
<sabdfl> cool. all of you guys should be members
<sabdfl> as should any forums guys that are regularly helpful with answers and suggestions
<\sh> last cigarette for today
<sabdfl> any substantial and sustained contribution...
<ubuntugeek> great i will pass this along.. 
<ubuntugeek> thanks again everyone see you at the next meeting, off to fight traffic
<Nafallo> \sh: s/day/life/
<Nafallo> :-)
<sabdfl> please encourage forums guys who are good contributors to come here and become members, they get @ubuntu.com email addresses
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, more forums people should attend these meetings and/or become members :)
<\sh> Nafallo: grrrr ;)
<jdong> sabdfl: idn about the others; I was never sent a CoC to sign
<ubuntugeek> night all
<sabdfl> jdong: check out your home page in launchpad
<Seveas> jdong, it's done on the launchpaf
* bddebian chuckles
<Seveas> pad*
<sabdfl> its all there
<nybble> anyways.. great meeting. gotta head to the drug store, bbl :D
<sabdfl> it's not very discoverable
<ogra> Nafallo, bah... you need one real addicion in your life to have to overcome something :)
<sabdfl> like a little test :-)
<Nafallo> ogra: computers? :-)
<sturmkind> hehe
<Kamion> Seveas: ok, thanks a lot for chasing that stuff up
<ogra> night ubuntugeek 
<sturmkind> so i had to go to bad, it's late ^^ (00:46 am here)
<Yann2> great meeting :) going to bed now. Night everybody!
<Seveas> 'nigh
<Seveas> t
<Seveas> 00:46 here too, meh, and I have a lunch appointment with Treenaks tomorrow
<zakame> g'night to all on the other side of the world! =)
<bddebian> heh
<sturmkind> greet meeting wish you all a good day/night
<jdong> sabdfl: the things that make me feel retarded :D
<Seveas> in the view of sabdfls remark about students I'm gonna get little sleep :)
<sturmkind> bye ;-)
<zakame> 'tis sunrise here in my end =)
<LinuxPeach> super_genius_jdong.
<sabdfl> SEC
<sabdfl> sorry
<sabdfl> damn. Kamion?
<Kamion> here
<sabdfl> i'd like to nominate mjg59 for a place on the tech board
<sabdfl> also, am considering further nominations for tech board and community council
<sabdfl> suggestions welcome
<\sh> wow
<\sh> mjg59 is a good decision
<bddebian> Aye
<Kamion> I'd heartily second mjg59, if he's willing
<jdong> Ubuntite!              Not yet       
<Nafallo> indeed
<sabdfl> we now have a basic voting mechanism in launchpad
<Kamion> I'll ruminate on others who might be a good idea
<sabdfl> so this should be easy to arrange
<jdong> so where's this magical statement?
<ogra> jdong, you need to upload your key and sign the CoC
<Nafallo> sabdfl: is it all devels or the core-devs that should vote? :-)
<sabdfl> we need to set a date for the vote, and need to announce it on the -devel list
<sabdfl> Nafallo: all devels
<Kamion> my wife's waiting for me decreasingly patiently, though :)
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> nice.
* bddebian knows that feeling :-)
* ogra sent his away to her mother to have time for xscreensaver hacking :)
<Kamion> what's the techboard term of office again?
<Nafallo> ogra: lol
<ogra> Nafallo, its the truth ! (despite that we're not married)
<jdong> ogra: thx; got it
<ogra> :)
<Kamion> ah, two years for CC with annual nominations, one year for TB with six-monthly nominations, ok
<\sh> ogra: u r alone now?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> for a week
<\sh> ogra: and fred had his walk today?
<\sh> ,-)
<Nafallo> ogra: don't you have a kitchen you could have put her in? ;-)
<ogra> \sh, nope, i'll do it now...
<sabdfl> Kamion: maybe we should make the TB the same terms as the CC?
<ogra> Nafallo, i have but it bores her, she's a webdesigner ;)
<\sh> ogra: be carefull of the "kuhdung" ,-)
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> hehe
<ajmitch> sabdfl: how long would devs have for voting for TB?
<nalioth> y'all be safe
<sabdfl> ajmitch: we'll open up the voting soon, with a deadline, in total not more than a week from start to finish i imagine
<sabdfl> maybe two weeks, so two TB meetings
<sabdfl> to give him a chance to answer any questions
<ajmitch> right
* dand waves
<\sh> ok...I need to go to bed..
<sabdfl> ok, night all
<sabdfl> thanks Kamion, elmo, et al
<ogra> night sabdfl 
<\sh> thx sabdfl 
<Seveas> 'night
<\sh> and the others of course :)
<Seveas> I'll make one attempt to fix the buggy bugbot and go to sleep too :)
<Kamion> sabdfl: I think they're OK to be honest, but maybe we can talk about it later
<Kamion> damn, missed him
<sladen> I guess that's a wrap then
<\sh> g'night folks...whereever you are, whatever you do ;)
<zakame> g'morning! =)
<jdong> anyone still left in here?
<jdong> I'm ubuntite now, but what about that @ubuntu.com address?
<siretart> jdong: you need to join the Ubuntu Members group in LP
<jdong> aha
<jdong> not seeing how to join?
<siretart> jdong: see here https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers
<Seveas>  add /+join to that url
<siretart> at the bottom there is somewhere a corresponding link 
<jdong> oh, cool
<jdong> how do I navigate that through menus from launchpad.net
<jdong> out of curiousity
<jdong> nvm, figured it out
<jdong> ok, waiting for approval; time to call it a day and do something else :)
<Seveas> jdong, come to the next CC meeting
<Seveas> and poke kamion
<jdong> Seveas:? I've already been approved
<jdong> Seveas: at least voting wise
<jdong> Seveas: it was before those launchpad days
<Seveas> I know
<siretart> jdong: yes, but technically some admin of that LP group has to approve you
<Seveas> but je jas to click on a button to approve you on LP
<Seveas> he has
<siretart> jdong: So you need to catch one of these admin to klick the right button ;)
<jdong> aha, I see
<jdong> I understand now
<jdong> I'm slow today, sorry :)
* siretart tired. gn8 folks
<jdong> good thing I haven't compiled any backports today 
<Seveas> jdong, are you interested in updated NX packages?
<Seveas> the ones in your repo are quite old (obsolete even)
<Seveas> I've made the latest available on http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/
<Seveas> (breezy only)
<panickedthumb> anyone log this? Sorry, loooong day at work
<Seveas> yes, ubuntulog logs it all
<Seveas> people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione
<panickedthumb> right!
<panickedthumb> I forgot the url
<panickedthumb> thanks
<jdong> Seveas: Awesome; offended if I binary-import them to the future breezy-extras?
<ogra> thumbs up for -extras :)
<tseng> boggle
<ogra> tseng, ah, come on...
<jdong> so who are potential people I could poke for membership?
<tseng> kamion, elmo
<jdong> both of whom are not on IRC
<jdong> heh, and I get completely blasted for not hanging out on IRC...
<jdong> :)
<tseng> they are on every day
<ajmitch> both of whom are in the uk where it is about 2am :P
<tseng> for long hours
<jdong> lol, fine
<jdong> :)
<jdong> we don't use IRC in this country :)
<jdong> we're AOL-dominated
<tseng> what country would that be
<jdong> USA....
<jdong> I'm already nerdy enough
<tseng> ive been using IRC for years
<tseng> probably even in AOL days
<ogra> now you scared mdz away 
<ajmitch> :(
<tseng> i think that was -extras
<tseng> scares me too
<ogra> heh
<ogra> having the odd stuff in one place is better than having totally mixed up sources.lists out there
<ogra> extras are only add ons they dont clash with our stuff...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |   28 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 3 Oct 16:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting here in 7 minutes 
<JaneW> hello
<JaneW> hi rickfitz 
<rickfitz> JaneW: Hi
<ogra_> hi all
<JaneW> phone please start...
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Rickyniano> hi everybody
<ogra_> i have not much to say about development, since my priorities were changed by mark... but the task that held me from edubuntu is nearly done...
<ogra_> so i should be able to go on with the CD tomorrow
<ogra_> no big status changes since last week
<ogra_> any development questions ? 
<Yagisan> any ideas on how local apps will be (for dapper) ?
<ogra_> oh, while i see doko_, we seem to get an update for schooltool (if matt approves it)
<JaneW> ogra_: serious issues still to be overcome before the release?
<ogra_> JaneW, sameas last week...
<ajmitch> ogra_: jinty is also around, fyi :)
<JaneW> ogra_: and I need a basic overview of what all still needs to be done
<ogra_> 4 bad bugs and some small glitches
<JaneW> ogra_: ok
<ogra_> i'll probably work around the installer bug for the lsp client builder with a text message ...
<ogra_> *ltsp
<ogra_> which would make that only 3 biggies
<ogra_> oh, another thing... we have our own usplash working since today....
<Rickyniano> As a computer science teacher, I would like to know if Edubuntu comes with a tool for remotely controlling the students' computers... Some tool like VNC or similar...
<ogra_> Rickyniano, sadly not yet...
<ogra_> it didnt make it in time... but will be in the next release
<mhz> Rickyniano: what kind of "control" do you mean
<mhz> ?
<Rickyniano> ogra_: oh, what a pity
<Yagisan> Rickyniano: that would need VNC running on the termonal
<ogra_> Rickyniano, yup
<sladen> ogra_: rockin
<JaneW> ogra_: cool, re usplash
<ogra_> Rickyniano, http://edubuntu.org/TeachersPet thats what we'll have in dapper
<Rickyniano> mhz: something like "to see" the student's screen...
<ogra_> sladen, jbaileys work ;)
<Rickyniano> or "to control" the student's mouse and keyboard
<Rickyniano> ogra_: ok, I'll see, thanks :)
<JaneW> Rickyniano: it is definately in the plans for future, was meant to be there this time
<JaneW> but your dev cycle was too short
<ogra_> i'll try to provide a backport of it after release
<JaneW> and we had constraints
<Rickyniano> JaneW: of course, I understand
<Rickyniano> ogra_: oh, superb :)
<Rickyniano> thanks for all to everybody :)
<ogra_> Rickyniano, http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<mhz> ogra_: but isn't that kind of apps apt-getable after install?
<Rickyniano> ogra_: mmmm... that screenshot seems great!
<ogra_> mhz, nope, its not in the breezy archive... thats why i said i'll backport it early from dapper
<JaneW> Rickyniano: please feel free to list anything you'd like to see in the next release ...
<Rickyniano> JaneW: ok, I'll do
<JaneW>  http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
<Treenaks> ogra_: you should strip the beards of the guys -- most pupils in schools don't have the ability to grow them yet ;)
<JaneW> you can also look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<ogra_> Treenaks, see it as a future target for them :) 
<Treenaks> ogra_: :P
<ogra_> (modulo the girls indeed)
<JaneW> the suggestions will all be considered and/or actioned at UBZ
<Rickyniano> Did you look at the work done by Linex in that way?
* mhz "again" wanted to be there but you are too far from Chile :)
<JaneW> Treenaks: ;)
<Rickyniano> JaneW: ok, I did some in the wiki.ubuntu.com/UBZ/BOFs some days ago :) but not for edubuntu explicitly
<ogra_> Rickyniano, the problem is that we use a completely new ltsp implementation... the old tools dont work with it
<ogra_> else i'd have grabbed teacher tool to have something... even if its ugly
<Rickyniano> ogra_: mmmm... ok, I see... you need to do a completely new tool by scratch, isn't it?
<ogra_> (our ltsp doesnt use X export, all old tools rely on that)
<Rickyniano> I only know about "ControlAulas" tool: http://www.itais.net/index.php?blog=3 (sorry, in Spanish)
<ogra_> changing a old tool is as much work as a new tool :)
<Rickyniano> ogra_: :) I see
<ogra_> ControlAulas has other problems why we cant ship it
<JaneW> Rickyniano: it's ok if it's in the Ubuntu page, I created that one too, and it is the main page....
<JaneW> Rickyniano: it would help if you indicate whether it is an edubuntu topic (if it;s not explicitly clear)
<JaneW> we discussed CDs last week.
<ogra_> its written in gambas, we wot be able to support gambas in main, so it couldnt get on the CD
<Rickyniano> JaneW: ok, perfect
<JaneW> we are not going to have any kind of mass produced CDs (unfortunately)
<rejden> i was thinkin, is there any possibility that developers will add Ad-Hoc feature in Gnome Network Connection and also durring instalation?
<Rickyniano> ogra_: oh, I didn't know about the gambas stuff
<JaneW> we might be able to get a few hundred printed now
<mhz> ogra_: how about 'gemsvnc'?
<JaneW> but it's likley to happen after the release when things settle down a bit
<ogra_> mhz, sure, suggest it for dapper :)
<ogra_> rejden, ??
<mhz> .oO(no idea if it is old)
<JaneW> but I need some clever and creative person to make a CD label design and CD cover design
<rejden> ogra_, wifi adhoc mode
<JaneW> we have no liveCD at this point, so we only need a slip cover for a single CD
<ogra_> rejden, what for ? ltsp doesnt work via wifi 
<rejden> ltsp?
<ogra_> rejden, thats the edubuntu meeting...
<JaneW> would anyone like to do that (NOT ogra) :P
<rejden> oh sorry
<rejden> forget it then
<ogra_> JaneW, i dont think its release critical we can easily have our CD two weeks after release
<Yagisan> ogra: well - ltsp can be done over wifi - but it need etherboot and isn't very quick
<mhz> JaneW: what are the standards requested?
<Rickyniano> ok, thanks everybody for all... I must go. see you!
<ogra_> Yagisan, yes, jbailey is looking into it... but rather for dapper
<ogra_> Rickyniano, ciao
<mhz> JaneW: I may be able to convince one of the memeber of Tecnocimiento to do that CD thing
<JaneW> ogra_: do you have the links to the kubuntu stuff Riddle sent yesterday? My machine was rebooted :(
<JaneW> mhz: cool!!!
<ogra_> JaneW, mine too :(
<JaneW> mhz: just something simple but nice...
<ogra_> but i guess we can ask Riddell again
<Riddell> hmm?
<JaneW> mhz: even just the logo and name
<JaneW> Riddell: hi ;)
<ogra_> the ring of children would be nice in there
<mhz> but I would definately need to know minimum standards as 'resolution', 'formtat', 'pantone', etc.
<ogra_> if we have a 300dpi print version from it
<JaneW> Riddell: er can we see your CD covers again please (sorry, machine rebooted unplanned so they weren't saved)
<JaneW> ogra_, mhz yes the children in the ring would be good.
<JaneW> mhz: do you have an ubuntu hoary CD cover?
<mhz> JaneW: sure, count on Chile :) for it
<ogra_> heh
<mhz> yes
* JaneW loves chile
* mhz loves rafting in Chile :D
* ogra_ imagines the whole country working on edubuntu covers
<mhz> LOL
<Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-cd.eps http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-sleeve.eps
<JaneW> mhz: note that I know little to nothing about design and what's involved and required, so be very specific about what you need
<Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/Sleeve template illustrator.eps
<Riddell> I think those are the files
<JaneW> Riddell: many thanks
<mhz> ok.. let me start doing it and I'll post questions
<JaneW> mhz: look at Riddell's links for Kubunut cover examples
<JaneW> mhz: excellent thanks
<mhz> JaneW: how soon do you/we need the covers?
<mhz> okidoki
<JaneW> mhz: in the next 2 weeks?
<JaneW> can you do that?
<Riddell> .pdf and .ai exist as well for the first two
<mhz> yesp
<JaneW> the release is 2 weeks tomorrow, but we won;t have CDs yet by theb
<JaneW> then
<mhz> Riddell: Not Found
<mhz> The requested URL /~jr/tmp/Sleeve/
<JaneW> we'll probably look at printing in the 2 weeks after that. If it;s not done by 24 Oct though it won't be till after UBZ...
<Riddell> mhz: s/ /%20/
<ogra_> mhz, replace the spaces with %20
<mhz> JaneW: don't worry. we'll get them
<mhz> hihihi
<mhz> .oO(duh!)
<ogra_> hey, we should create mobile phone logos and ringtones .... we could get rich *g*
<mhz> LOL!!
<JaneW> ogra_: indeed
<ogra_> (hmm, the less i sleep, the weirder my humor gets...)
<JaneW> ok what else
<JaneW> jsgotngco has produced some docs
<mhz> docs? cooool!
<JaneW> about edubuntu is here http://pastebin.com/376564
<ogra_> and we found a guy who wants to help with the cookbook yesterday night (ths morning rather)
<JaneW> release notes needs some love, but here
<JaneW> 's the start http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuReleaseNotes
<JaneW> Here's Breezy release notes to compare with.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
<JaneW> the cookbook will hopefully be complete by end of Oct
<mhz> cool, then I'll moin it :)
<JaneW> Jerome won;t have much more time to offer us now though, as he needs to get a formal (and paying) job
<mhz> we all do
<JaneW> yay
<JaneW> highvoltage: is working on the html stuff
<mhz> at least me too
<JaneW> we are hoping to have something to show by the end of the week
<mhz> perfect
<JaneW> then we need to sort out the wiki merege, although I am not sure if that is crucial right now
<mhz> wiki merge? whta you mean?
<mhz> what
<ogra_> ubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu wikis will be merged 
<ogra_> (ubuntu and kubuntu already are)
<Riddell> there is no kubuntu wiki
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> why ? 
<Riddell> we've always been happy using the ubuntu wiki
<highvoltage> sorry, just got here.
<mhz> ogra_: need help in merging?
<ogra_> highvoltage, no worries, we assigned you all the odd tasks nobody wanted :p
<JaneW> heh
<ogra_> mhz, thats done by our webmasters
<mhz> Riddell: I could work on a CSS for Kubuntu
<Riddell> mhz: for what?
<JaneW> mhz is chief volunteer today
* highvoltage turns a shade between purple and blue
<highvoltage> ogra_: really?
<ogra_> heh, indeed :)
<mhz> Riddell: for a kubuntu Moin wiki
<JaneW> highvoltage: I told them about the award winning web site you are designing
<Riddell> mhz: as in same wiki as wiki.u.c but different headers and footers?
<mhz> JaneW: is just that I feel I have done nothing yet for Edubuntu and I will still use it, so...
<mhz> Riddell: afaik, when wikis get all merged, they should/will share same /data dir
<JaneW> mhz: your have been a good cheer leader and general motivator so far, and if you get us CD label and cover designs sorted you'll be one of the main contributors, so you are doing well :)
<mhz>  /data dir is where al pages get saved
<JaneW> mhz: not to mention your valuable spanish translation skills :)
<mhz> JaneW: ohhh, cool :D
<mhz> hehehe
<highvoltage> JaneW: please don't raise expectations to high, we were just talking about a few html pages ;)
<mhz> thanks but still wanna take advantage of the 3 days window I get today
<Riddell> mhz: should be just a case of using the headers and footers from kubuntu.org
<JaneW> highvoltage: ;) no pressure...
<mhz> highvoltage: LOL
<mhz> Riddell: ah, no big deal then
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok. let's win some awards.
<ogra_> some ?? 
<mhz> Riddell: just let me know if you need one
<ogra_> all of them !!
<Riddell> mhz: certainly will
<mhz> Riddell: maybe we could use KDE icosn as well
<mhz> icons
<mhz> Riddell: actually, despite my feelings against not 100% libs in KDE, I still prefer that desktop over GNOME.
<mhz> so, maybe I'll try to use Edubuntu with KDE and an alternative of XFCE4 and FLuxbox
<mhz> highvoltage: did you know Moin 1.5 is actually using WYSIWYG editor and it rocks!?
* Riddell puts mhz incharge of kedubuntu
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> we'll have a ubuntu-light package in dapper :)
<magnon> no added sugar
<mhz> highvoltage: so besides the already moin2html utils, now editing will be even simpler and so more people will be able to produce collaborative documentation
<ogra_> magnon, nope, fat replaced with water ;)
<mhz> ogra_: cool! ubuntu-light is definately needed
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> and its no problem to install kubuntu-desktop in edubuntu
<mhz> Kool!
<mhz> :D
<ogra_> pfft
<ogra_> :)
<mhz> and if fluxbox... Fool!
<magnon> if kedubuntu gets widespread, I fear for the spelling skills of the future generation
<Yagisan> ubuntu-light will be nice
<mhz> LOL!!!
<JaneW> ogra_: re the CDs will we just create a few x86 ones?
<JaneW> or what?
<mhz> magnon: KDE and Gnome communities are grwoing well here in CHile
<ogra_> JaneW, yes
<JaneW> ogra_: ok
<Yagisan> magnon: Its OK - the already spell like the are l33t d00dz anyway
<magnon> "kan I have a koke?" "yeah, sure, it's only a kouple of dollars"
<magnon> "kool, I kan't pay anymore anyway."
<mhz> :D
<ogra_> JaneW, who can afford exotic HW will have a internet connection i guess
<mhz> JaneW: how many is "few"?
<Treenaks> ogra_: not necessarily
<Treenaks> ogra_: what if you spent all your money on hardware..
<magnon> ogra_: don't assume that, we have one who got donated a SPARC machine :P
<mhz> ogra_: oh, "exotic" :)
<magnon> you mean eKsotic
<ogra_> Treenaks, ppc is rare anyway... and who can buy a amd64 will be able to download the iso or know someone who can do it
<Yagisan> ogra: here amd64 is same price as i386
<mhz> ogra_: can we tell them to contact you?
<magnon> har har.
<ogra_> Treenaks, dont forget we talk about schools :)
<mhz> if I could change my box, I'd definately use AMD
<Treenaks> ogra_: who have a fixed budget, yes :)
<ogra_> mhz, to send me their HW ? sure :)
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, that's quite cool.
<magnon> mhz: Sun Fire. :)
<magnon> only problem is Flash
<magnon> norwegian schools have some stupid national tests that use Flash
<ogra_> you can do wild chroot setups...
<magnon> _can_
<ogra_> yup
<highvoltage> ogra_: like i do :)
<magnon> want is another thing
<highvoltage> brb
<flint> good belated morning...
<Yagisan> magnon: wild chroots are an essential part of education - you need to contrast them with tame chroots
<JaneW> mhz: this is a disputed point, but as of yesterday I was told a few hundred...
<magnon> ogra_: actually, the development of such things are really obligated to fit normal widespread standards... but the definition of it is as widespread as well :(
<ogra_> yup
<mhz> JaneW: could they be saved for Edubuntu presentations and alike?
<JaneW> ogra_: also there's no word on having another summit yet, but I think it's best to decide this at the begining of UBZ when we have our direction talk
<JaneW> mhz: yes that's the idea
<JaneW> mhz: they are not for mass distro but for demos and selected promotional purposes
<mhz> JaneW: cool, coz I have 3 presentations in October and 2 in Novemebr
<JaneW> mhz: we don;t actually have any budget for it, but are trying to get *something*
<ogra_> JaneW, i'd like to have it decided earlier, because we need to schedule the BOFs different then
<JaneW> mhz: cool well if you control the packaging burning the CDs is the easy part ;)
<mhz> what is we collected some money to produce items and Canonical distributed the items?
<JaneW> ogra_: I am not certain we'll get that but I shall try - it's not the best time to prod though...
<mhz> what is
<ogra_> yup
<flint> sounds like we may need a sponsor...
<JaneW> mhz: well we have been told distribution and logisitics are our own problem as a community
* magnon could always share $0.02...
<JaneW> edubuntu needs to support itself as a community effort
<JaneW> and prove itself as such
<flint> give away the razors and pay for the barber is a good model.
<mhz> JaneW: I was thinking that in order to be self-supported, at least waht Tecnocimiento will do as a group of volunteers for IT on Education, is that we'll destinate a % of our profits per sales.
<mhz> I mean, a potential business model is that after an institution pays us for RecicLab (in our case), we give a % of the money to the edubuntu community
<mhz> if we al did that we may end up getting a workable fund
<magnon> mhz: I'm all up for that
<mhz> good
<flint> I have Elkner on the phone now, as he is live testing Edubuntu and has a problem could we discuss his current issues?
<mhz> shoot
<flint> He has sent an email that I may quote from liberally to this group.
<mhz> .oO(shoot but I doubt I will be of any help :D )
<flint> We found an important bug in Edubuntu and wished to report it (more on the bug in a seprate email).  Writesh Maulik, a bright and motivated student, wanted to report the bug.  I encouraged him to do this, and told him to create a Launchpad
<flint> account for himself.  He did:
<flint> Email/Login: writesh@comcast.net
<flint> User Name: Wrivu 
<flint> He tried to report the bug on Launchpad using malone, but could not.  We went on to #edubuntu and were told that core Ubuntu bugs need to be reported on bugzilla, not malone.  The bell rang and Writesh had to leave.  Today he tried to log
<flint> into bugzilla using his Launchpad account but could not.  The bug remains unreported. 
<flint> Elkner goes on...
<flint> A school environment is a pressure cooker.  Bells ring and people have to drop what they are doing and move on to something else.  Disruptions are the norm and it is all but impossible to maintain a sustained focus on anything for more
<flint> than about 20 minutes.
<flint> The crux of Elkers comments regard the bug reporting system....  see below:
<flint> He tried to report the bug on Launchpad using malone, but could not.  We went on to #edubuntu and were told that core Ubuntu bugs need to be reported on bugzilla, not malone.  The bell rang and Writesh had to leave.  Today he tried to log
<flint> into bugzilla using his Launchpad account but could not.  The bug remains unreported.  I could encourage him to create an account on bugzilla, but the current process is broken and it is more important to fix the process.  Most folks (including me) don't know whether a particular package is part of core or universe.  Having multiple logins and passwords to remember drastically increases the chances of not login failures.  And the
<flint>  whole process just takes too long.  If we want to grow the user community and increase involvement, we need a better process. 
<mhz> flint: how about off line bug registration?
<mhz> so students can then submit later
<ogra_> flint, please dont report bugs for main in launchpad
<ogra_> i told jelkner that yestrday
<ogra_> they wont be seen or solved
<JaneW> :)
<flint> ollie, I am just relaying this.  But admit that this dual bug reporting path is a mess.
<JaneW> I think we would get more support from Canonical if they saw us as profitable (in anyway) rather than just a big cost
<JaneW> and any profit implies comercial interest too, so +++
<JaneW> the more ppl want what we've got the more chance we'll have of making it better
<ogra_> flint, *all* edubuntu bugs need to be repotred in bugzilla...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] :  Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  3 Oct 16:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<magnon> JaneW: it's a pretty big chance that stuff we make for Edubuntu would be viable for SMBs or ltsp setups
<magnon> like, TeachersPet in a modified way would be a good admin tool
<Yagisan> magnon: that's why I'm here
<ogra_> yup
<magnon> whenever TP comes around :)
<magnon> it might not be too dumb to design it for general use and extend it for edu
<Yagisan> I'm not a school interest - I'm business.
<magnon> Yagisan: Me too. :)
<JaneW> flint: bug must be reported in bugzilla
<JaneW> everybody else manages to do that
<flint> so I guess the question becomes one of bug reporting consolidation or I&A consolidation for bug reporting.
<JaneW> flint: and ogra_ gave jeff the opportunity to mail the bug details to him, if they couldn;t report it in bugzilla themsleves for whatever reason
<ogra_> flint, we have no influence on that at all
<flint> we are talking about getting 12-14 year olds the ability to report bugs.  
<ogra_> flint, i cant change it
<JaneW> Malone is new and isn't completely opperational (is only used for a sub set of stuff)
<mhz> JaneW: from Chile, Tecnocimiento is working on presenting the idea of a LatinamericanFreeTechnologyInstitute, where all different institutions teach the same curriculum with same standards, we all develop solutions together, as a community and it is up to EACH institution to generate profits for what they do with our collaboration. However, in the end the community Institute gets a % from profits, so we all can enjoy merchandising and stuff
<JaneW> the main bug repositiry is bugzilla
<flint> if they need multiple logons for different (and not differentiated) bugs, this is a problem.
<mhz> JaneW: however, this is off the record yet, please.
<JaneW> mhz: sounds very interesting...
<ogra_> flint, yes, but again, nobody of us cna change that...
<JaneW> mhz: never heard a word ;)
<mhz> cool
<mhz> thx
<ogra_> flint, its very likely that launchad will be used for all bugs in dapper
<flint> mhz This is enough to make me learn more Spanish... very cool.
<ogra_> but currently launchpad is in a testphase that only involves universe bugs
<JaneW> flint: what is the process issue? report the bug in bugzilla. If you can't/ won't/ don't want to mail ogra with details.... where's the issue?
<JaneW> flint: and bugzilla's account and password mechanisms are completely out of our control
<mhz> flint: ogra_ what is BUGS were reported via Moin?
<flint> this is way too confusing universe bugs go one place and breezy bugs go another.  It is almost as if the edubuntu project needs a bug proxy.
<mhz> in Moin community, we all report bugs via Moin editing
<ogra_> mhz, bugs need to be reported in the bugtracker we use... which is bugzilla for all shipped apps and malone for universe bugs currently
<flint> via moin?  one point for bug reporting?  EXCELLENT!! could that work?
<ogra_> flint, everything we ship in edubuntu is in main...
<JaneW> sigh
<ogra_> and we dont have/use a wiki for bugs
<mhz> and this way, edubuntu developers will "filter" bugs BEFORE submitting them to bugzilla
<JaneW> I have to go, I put the main pints in the summary
<ogra_> mhz, we dont *have/use* anything else than bugzilla
<flint> jane I am not trying to be dense here, I am just getting reports from the battle front.  Elkner calls me between classes an whines....
<mhz> JaneW: thankz
<ogra_> flint, make him mail me the bugs if he is not capable of using bugzilla for them, no problem...
<ogra_> brb
<flint> I use the bugzilla point for reporting bugs, and have never used malone.
<JaneW> flint: nod, understood, but he seems to not want to listen
* JaneW dashes
<flint> ...those damn customers... :^)
<mhz> ogra_: I understand the point, however, IF we want 12-14 year olds to be happy using our stuff, and they have little time to report bugs, why not giving the chance to filter bugs using an alternative via such as Moin? Then you, me or anyone else who has no problem with bugzilla official tool, submit the bug
<flint> I will do as you suggest ollie.  I really like the moin idea and will relay it to Elkner.
<mhz> at least, until "official trainig" is set
<Yagisan> I'd like reportbug integrated into bugzilla
<Yagisan> then they could spend 30 seconds on it
<mhz> ogra_: flint we could have a EdubuntuWikiBugReportTemplate that after developers read it, they change the CategoryPreBug to CategoryBugSubmittede or CategoryNotBug
<ogra_> mhz, we'll have malone soon, no wiki can replace that
<mhz> I agree
<ogra_> mhz, it simply wont be accepted, no point to discuss it
<flint> mhz I missed the part about "official training"... could we use this as a profit center
<mhz> just talking about the "testing period"
<ogra_> mhz, but if youre after it, you can attend the next technical board meeting and put it on the TechnicalBoardAgenda
<flint> If Elkner was not whinning into my ear on the phone I would not even know of this as an issue.  
<mhz> flint: why not? but the idea is to always give users 2 chances. If you like to read and do all by yourself. go ahead. If you are a regular user who never reads manuals and stuff, you can pay for someone to help you :D
<flint> mhz I do not get it.  are the two chances bugzilla and malone?
<mhz> ogra_: is not that I am after it... no Moin template will be better than a tool esp. designed for a task. It was just that if someone had the intention to use the tool and was not successfull, we could still provide a way out
<flint> mhz: by the way how do you shortcut my name to the front of your post in Xchat?
<flint> Ollie, I am not happy being a bearer of critical tidings...
<mhz> i just type the first 2 letters and Xhcat autocomplete your name match
<flint> mhz, that works...thanks!
<mhz> np
<mhz> flint: I had never thought of edubuntu bugs yet. Malone is as new to me as bugzilla for edubuntu stuff
<ogra_> ok, i have to go back to my screensaver hacking, else i'll never be able to go on with edubuntu...
<mhz> ogra_: thanks for everything
<ogra_> thanks for attending :)
<mhz> thanks for thanking me :D
<ogra_> hopefully edubuntu can go on tomorrow
<mhz> cool
<mhz> uh, did I mention that no matter how many bugs people find, you still did a good job
<mhz> ?
<flint> ogra_ and mhz, this bug thing just got thrown in my lap.  Elkner sent his letter to about this bug reporting issue to everyone (including the SABDFL)
<mhz> and it's now that we all start helping
<mhz> flint: hmmm.
<flint> I would close echoing the sentement that edubuntu is an excellent hack!
<mhz> any chances you could reproduce the bug in one of your boxes
<mhz> ?
<mhz> or any chances you could train your friend to report bugs using the tool ogra_ mentioned so your friend can train students to do exactly the same.
<mhz> ?
* mhz fixing a bottle for his daughter
<flint> ogra_, Thanks for being here.  Next week I will report on how this bug-bug is evolving.  I maybe agree with mhz that this is a training issue as much as anything.
<Yagisan> reading the logs - it seems they are reluctant to use bugzilla
<flint> mhz,  I see an opportunity in training...this may be the ticket.  Thanks for mentioning it.  
<flint> Yagisan,  the deal seems to be that they have to use bugzilla for some bugs and malone for others.
<flint> ...or at least that is what I am being told. :^)
<flint> and there is the dichotomy between help and bugs.  this may be Elkner's real problem, he loves to be the early adopter.
<Yagisan> flint: I read the logs /|\ up there. It clearly said use bugzilla.
<mhz> Yagisan: and if we talk about an institution, in the meantime, while no official bug reporting system is 100% operationl, I propose that that institution could have a MoinBugTemplate admined by its administrator or an external person, so this person is in charge of filtering bugs and reporting to the corresponding tool.
<Yagisan> flint: but it would help if there was an automated tool for the kids
<Yagisan> mhz: bugzilla works. I've reported bugs there
<mhz> but AFAIK, I used to use an off-line bug reporting tool while I had no internet at home.
<Yagisan> edubuntu IS all main
<flint> Yagisan, If bugzilla is it, then the problem is solved.  I have also reported bugs to bugzilla.
<Yagisan> and main == bugzilla
<mhz> me too
<mhz> hence I assume it is HowtoDoit properly issue
<Yagisan> mhz: correct
<flint> I am going to slap Elkner around and tell him to report all to bugzilla.
<mhz> LOL
<tseng> im not sure he'd enjoy that
<mhz> flint: OR.. you could have them pay you for receiving mail reporting bus and you submit them :D
<flint> In elkner's defense, You can always tell the pioneer, he is the one with the arrow in his back... :^)
<mhz> and later you donate a % of your income to the Edubuntu proect so we can have T-Shirts
<Yagisan> flint: but he's just a bit too eairly
<mhz> :)
<mhz> Yagisan: yes, it is not even edubuntu dawn yet
<flint> Yagisan,  for all the disrespecting I do to Elkner, he is a resource of infinite value.  A teacher who will put your product into a production environment.
<mhz> yes!
<mhz> Elkner rock!
<Yagisan> flint: I know - but when you are on the bleeding edge - you get cut
<mhz> but please train him to use bugzilla properly
<flint> mhz,  I cannot stress to you how much courage (and stupid optimism) it takes to do this live testing.
<mhz> LOL
<Yagisan> flint: it would be nice if he is around long enought to heat the reply!
<mhz> I know, I've been there
<Yagisan> s/heat/hear
<flint> mhz, ok, I will work him like a red-haired stepchild. we can get throught this bug issue.
<Yagisan> so - what was the bug he wanted to report ?
<mhz> flint: however, I do admit that one thing is being pioneer and other is have 12 year olds testing something is unstable yet
<Yagisan> that's what I'm curious about
<mhz> esp. if they are not trained to bug reporting
* mhz has to leave... I'm back to edubuntu
<flint> ogra_, I am out of here in order to get back to a deadline, and to respond to Elkners email.  mhz Elkner is a trip, no doubt about that.  
<flint> thanks for all be on time next week.
<mhz> sorry what??
<ogra_> flint, i just replied :)
<flint> thanks ollie!
<mhz> flint: re-post your last message to me please
<flint> ogra_, so did sabdfl
<flint> ...god that Elkner is a suckup!
<flint> :^)
<magnon> somehow "god that Elkner is good with ketchup" flashed by
<flint> mhz, which caustic invective did you want to see...
<mhz> just thenone after I mentioned i left for edubutnu channel
<flint> magnon, ketchup, that is brilliant! :^)
<flint> mhz, here is is: ogra_, I am out of here in order to get back to a deadline, and to respond to Elkners email.  mhz Elkner is a trip, no doubt about that. 
<flint> mhz, that was before sabdfl started responding to Elkner's email unalaterally...
<flint> markuman, ...I mean that in the nicest way, Mark :^)
<markuman> flint?
<mhz> flint: okidoki.. now I get back to #edubuntu
<mhz> bye guys
<flint> markuman,  ....yes sir?
<flint> markuman,  I have always had trouble with authority figures...You think getting to be an old man would fix this...
<markuman> >>>(15:47:27) flint: markuman, ...I mean that in the nicest way, Mark :^) <<< what do you mean?
<ogra_> flint, markuman != sabdfl
<flint> this was in response to a previous posting "mhz, that was before sabdfl started responding to Elkner's email unalaterally..."
<flint> ogra_, I know that, but thanks for the info
<ogra_> heh... sorry then
<flint> Mark, elkner is actually in a classroom with teenage thugs and drug pushers, using edubuntu.  He writes you and calls me up whinning about the multi path bug reporting system.  Ollie fixes the problem.  I think we should ge on with how to make this project self sustaining...
<flint> ok, the kids are the North Arlington, Virginia cream of the DC intellectual crop... :^)  but they act like thugs when Elkner gets them.
<tseng> we met one of his students, we dont believe you
<flint> Mark and Ollie, Elkner would not go to this extreme if he did not feel desperate.  The question is was his desperation a issue of the moment, or is there some good design data buried in his message?
<flint> tseng,Collin Applegate is a very cool fellow, no doubt I will need to modify the thugs and drug pushers statement...
<flint> trying to use technology in a classroom is like trying to juggle flaming chainsaws.  Keep in mind that I just had a run in trying to get the lotr login fixed for the release, I failed in this mission.  No good deed goes unpunished here Mark.
<flint> Thankfully I have great training in the DC Bureaucracy, so I am toughened.  The issue we all face is how to hang in there and try to do good things.  Does that help explain what I mean Mark?
<flint> BTW Mark, the next time I visit London I would like to introduce you to a friend of mine named John Buckman, a very canny software business developer.  I am standing by for a reply.
<ogra_> flint, whom are you talking to ? 
<ogra_> sabdfl is not here ... 
<flint> ogra_,  Elkner calls back and is asking for linkage between malone and bugzilla.  Thanks for the information about sabdfl
<flint> ogra_, login linkage only...
<ogra_> i think there is none...
<ogra_> he needs to create an bugzilla account
<ogra_> s/an/a
<flint> ogra_,  he will carbon you.  God I seem to be good at stirring the pot, unintentionally...
<ogra_> flint, you can easily check who is here in the sidebar that lists the currently availabe people for the room
<flint> I need to get back to deadlineville. ya, I did not look at the sidebar, a cockpit error on my part.
<ogra_> dont worry  :)
<\sh> wow...edubuntu party and nobody informed me
<flint> ollie, thanks for your continued patient help.  It sucks being a clueless old guy 
<ogra_> flint, we'll teach you, beware ;)
<ogra_> \sh, every wedneday at this time ;)
<flint> I gotta go, this old stuff could happen to you as well!  Thanks again.  I'm gone.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-04
<cyphase> (Auto Message) Hey everyone. I'm going to be offline for about 6 days since I'm moving. Since my blog is hosted in my room, it's going to be offline as well. Just to let you know.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-06
<ali4728> help I cant logon to my Ubuntu I got this Error message http://pastebin.com/379215 ant help?
<ajmitch> ali4728: #ubuntu for help, this channel is only for meetings
<chouchou> yo:)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-08
<klepas> Anyone awake?
<Seveas> no 
<klepas> :)
<Yann2> hi.
<klepas> Ahoy
<Yann2> anyone here for the locoteam meeting?
<sturmkind> hello Yann2 ;-)
<Yann2> i hope there was no mistake concerning the time -_-
<klepas> Yea...
<klepas> I'm somewhat confused
<Yann2> mh?
<smurf> Hello everybody -- it's meeting time again
<klepas> could someone enlighten me as to what and when this meeting is about and to take place.
<smurf> klepas: when: NOW
<klepas> [excuse the ignorance] 
<smurf> what: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<klepas> cheers
<smurf> sabdfl said he'd be here too; I've pinged him
<Yann2> ok
<smurf> silbs: you awake? ;-)
<silbs> yes, here
<smurf> did you get my ping WRT sabdfl?
<silbs> sabdfl will try to make it (on the phone now). No need to wait for him though
<smurf> ah, OK
<silbs> what's the agenda?
<smurf> so we'll get started
<smurf> The agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting; first we'll do the introduction dance ;-)
* smurf = Matthias Urlichs
* silbs is Jane Silber
* Yann2 Yann Hamon
* rejden Jan Husar
* sturmkind => Sascha Morr
<smurf> nobody else? OK
<Mark_Ramm> Mark_Ramm => Mark Ramm
<smurf> ;-)
<smurf> First agenda item is " Trademark issues for creating local charity organisations named ubuntu-something"
<ian_brasil> ian
<smurf> silbs has mailed a draft agreement to the -contact list
<smurf> any comments beside "looks good, go for it"? ;-)
<Yann2> we got it
<Yann2> looks good to me 
* mdke matthew east
<sabdfl> hi all
<Yann2> hi
<sabdfl> DapperDrake: *excellent* choice of nick ;-)
<smurf> heh
<smurf> sabdfl: off-topic for now, though ;-)
<mdke> which thread is the draft agreement in?
<mitsuhiko> hi all
<sabdfl> ok, who's chairing?
<silbs> I mailed it to smurfix and yann as -de and -fr were the only countries that seem to have those regulatory issues
<silbs> sabdfl: we're talking about the issue of local companies
<smurf> sabdfl: I am
* mitsuhiko = Armin Ronacher
<sabdfl> alright, thanks
<Yann2> it was not mailed to the contact list but to smurf, mako, benj and I
<silbs> smurf: did you get a response from gnome-de
<smurf> Ah, sorry, I auto-filed it to -contacts
<mdke> ah I see
<Yann2> silbs > can we make that trademark agreemend draft public?
<smurf> silbs: I did; their agreement is somewhat more informal
<smurf> One change I'd like to make is to have the agreement continue automatically unless cancelled, instead of the other way 'round
<silbs> Yann2: sure, although it is something that we only want to do were regulatory conditions require it. So far that is only -fr and -de
<silbs> smurf, Yann2 : can you send me feedback in email?
<Yann2> silbs > yep
<silbs> it will be easier to consolidate it and redraft that way. 
<smurf> will do.
<silbs> thanks
<Yann2> the term of "locoteam member" is somewhat confusing too
<Yann2> as there is no really "ubuntu-fr member"
<smurf> Yann2: if you have a better idea ... => email
<silbs> that is one of the issue with this concept. We are making an agreement with individuals, representing an org, who will form another org
<smurf> next agenda item, I'd say
<smurf> " Distribution of Cds and conference packs - logistics issues (ship-it)"
<silbs> the agreement needs to be with a group of individuals (i.e., the loco team), not just an individual (i.e., you)
<Yann2> silbs > we are two locoteam leaders
<Yann2> david wasn t able to come
<silbs> Yann2: yes, I know.
<Yann2> you mean, the agreement should be done with the entire french community?
<silbs> my point was that ubuntu-fr is a team, and we are making an agreement with the team. If you and david diverge from the rest of the ubuntu-fr team in opinion, then what?
<rejden> smurf, regarding to shipit issue, we will have one big open source summit at the second week of november, it'spossible to get 5.10 before?
<Mark_Ramm> loco teams -- if they are going to be legal entities -- need to have official members. 
<silbs> Yann2: not the whole team, but I was trying to put conditions in there that made the team have to operate *as a team*, not as individuals
<silbs> it's imperfect, I know
<Yann2> silbs > we do not really have a "team", but we do have a wiki team, a rosetta team, a planet team...
<silbs> Yann2: is it just you and david?
<Yann2> we could consider the whole teams as the Ubuntu-fr team
<smurf> Yann2: you'll have a few people who woll found the association
<smurf> those are the ones who need to enter into that agreement
<silbs> Mark_Ramm: I agree, that's the issue I was trying to address. It's tricky though, becuase right now loco teams don't seem to have "official membership"
<mdke> individuals can come and go from teams, it's best to have the team entering into the agreement IMO
<Yann2> how many should that be? 1? 2? 3? 10?
<silbs> the draft required 3 people to sign it, and stipulated that there be some way for the team to change it's leadership
<silbs> didn't try to impose any way for that to happen, just that the team had some say in it
<silbs> I'm assuming that each team is making decisions about how they will operate, if there is a "leader", etc
<smurf> Yann2: you need a certain number of people for forming the association
<Yann2> silbs > 3 people is ok, i've an idea for the third person... and yes we can create a way to change the leaders if the team is not happy with them anymore
<Yann2> smurf > that's 2 in france
<smurf> in Germany it's 7 for a nonprofit
<rejden> 3 in sk
<smurf> I think we can hash out the rest of the draft's details in email though
<ian_brasil> can we see the draft somewhere?
<smurf> silbs: forward it to -contacts?
<silbs> yes, I will
<smurf> thanks
<silbs> but remember that this is for unusual circumstances only
<silbs> this is not a normal part ofbeing a loco team
<smurf> silbs: sure
<silbs> most don't need it
<Yann2> sure
<silbs> the last thing we want is people forming legal structures along with a loco team and then abandoning them
* mdke nods
<smurf> +1
<smurf> OK, next item (this time for real ;-)
<sabdfl> it's quite a burden to have a legal structure. lots of paperwork
<sabdfl> many fail
<Yann2> silbs > we might abandon it, I won't do this my whole life. But if i quit, there'll be someone to hand over the association.
<sabdfl> even for large organisations
<rejden> smurf, ok, can you go back to my question?
<smurf> people keep asking about CDs, shipit, esp. for conferences
<Yann2> as I said at the last CCmeeting
<smurf> the question is, what's the timeframe for breezy CDs? Should we tell people "burn your own" until we see that shipit ships? 
<Yann2> we are willing to try to take over a part of the organisation of the cds shipping in france
<smurf> Yann2: do you have *concrete* numbers on how much that would cost?
<Yann2> smurf > it's quite complicated
<smurf> I don't suppose you're going to do it for free
<Yann2> we haev a company that asked us for logistics around the cds
<Yann2> i'm trying to let them take a large part of the whole costs of distribution
<Yann2> in exchange of maybe some flyers in the packs
<Yann2> the person willing to help us works in a cybercentre, he says he might get some monney to ship the cds
<Yann2> so it depends on how many cds lugs/organisations/companies will ask us
<Yann2> and if we get that monney from these companies
<Yann2> that'll take a few more weeks to get a precise idea...
<smurf> So canonical would ship a mountain of CDs to them for free redistribution? Is that the plan?
<ian_brasil> we already took the decision to burn our own CD's, make our own banners, we want to be as self sufficient as possible but with a legal structure so that no-one can come and 'eat' ubuntu-br and call it theirs
<Yann2> canonical would send a large quantity of cds to a centre in france, which would handle the local shipping
<silbs> Yann2: if the ubuntu-fr team can find a way to send CDs that Canonical doesn't pay for (e.g., donations, trade for services), etc. that's fine - we'll be happy to pass French orders on to you. But if you want Canonical to pay for it, it needs to meet our price guidelines, which I've already communicated
<Yann2> silbs > we won't handle the WHOLE logistics around shipping
<rejden> silbs, any chance to see those guidelines?
<Yann2> we'll just do a large command for lugs, companies, organisations, conferences, just after the release
<silbs> rejden: they've been on the loco list several times. basically, less than EUR .45 per unit, where a unit is the 2 cd pack
<Yann2> so that they can get it faster
<silbs> that includes everything but the actual shipping (production, storage, pick & pack, labelling, etc)
<Yann2> silbs > is the shipping in the .45EUR?
<Yann2> silbs > we won't produce any CD, just ship them
<silbs> Yann2: who will you ship them to?
<Yann2> silbs > as i said, LUGs, companies, conferences... everybody who asked a month before release
<silbs> i.e., orders placed with us, or destinations you pick on your own?
<Yann2> one month before the release i'd take "orders"
<silbs> oh - you are talking about Dapper?
<Yann2> but only in large quantity
<Yann2> yep
<Yann2> we will never make it for breezy
<silbs> okay, I think we can talk about this later then :)
<smurf> well, dapper is still some time off ...
<Yann2> (but)
<Yann2> same problem for conference packs :)
<Yann2> conference packs will need some logistics and imply some costs
<smurf> let's finish CDs first please
<Yann2> same problem :)
<silbs> smurf: I don't think there is anything else to talk about on CDs.
<smurf> "timeframe for breezy CDs"
<Yann2> we are looking for companies to fund the CDs
<silbs> loco teams can request a high pri order, per my mail http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2005-September/000137.html
<silbs> CDs ship about a week after release
<Yann2> but if canonical could give some money if we have not enough ^^^
<Yann2> silbs > you said we should not order a too large quantity
<smurf> silbs: OK, thanks
<Yann2> and i'm speaking of some thousands of cds :)
<silbs> Yann2: we will not send you 20K cds as a high pri order. Sorry.
<Yann2> silbs > oh.
<Yann2> that was the point :/
<silbs> Yann2: you said you don't even have orders yet, that you are planning for dapper?
<Yann2> yep
<Yann2> we have time :)
<silbs> we're not accepting dapper orders yet :)
<Yann2> ^^
<Yann2> silbs > if you can not send us 20K cds as pri order
<mitsuhiko> silbs: if someone is ordering some breezy cds today by mailing you. when is their arrival in Germany?
<Yann2> then i don't have to look for someone shipping them
<Yann2> silbs > it take quite a lot of time to organise the shipping, i won't do it if I can't order the cds :p
<mdke> Yann2, i don't get this. If they send you the cd's, they have to ship them anyway, what is the point in you then shipping them again?
<silbs> mitsuhiko: orders should be placed in shipit.ubuntu.com, not by mailing me. Breezy won't be released till 13 Oct, the first CDs won't ship till about a week aftre that
<Yann2> mdke > having them earlier, with high priority
<silbs> we have hundreds of thousands of requests already, and it will take some time to get through the backlog of orders
<rejden> silbs, can you make any priority within shipit?
<juliux> silbs, we need it for a fair in germany
<Yann2> should go faster and be cheaper
<smurf> mdke: shipping one crate with 20k CDs is a bit cheakper than shipping 2k envelopes with ten CDs each
<mdke> Yann2, but the high priority terms have already been defined
<silbs> I can't promise a specific delivery
<silbs> 1. loco teams can request a high pri order
<silbs> 2. if there is a specific date required, identify that in your order
<mitsuhiko> silbs: i was talking about a locoteam high pri order
<silbs> rejden, juliux ; ^^
<Yann2> silbs > as smurf said, that was a way to reduce shipping costs, too
<silbs> mitsuhiko: you should have it by the end of Oct, but I really can't guarantee that
<rejden> silbs, well, we can specifi it via shipit web?
<Yann2> well f that's not possible we would just order some cds for lugs that have a precise timeline
<silbs> rejden: yes
<rejden> silbs, ok
<Yann2> silbs > so to be clear, you'd prefer to have shipit handle the whole distribution system?
<Yann2> it's ok for me..
<Yann2> it was just a suggestion :)
<silbs> Yann2: I don't know what you are asking. I would prefer to talk about dapper distribution some other time.
<Yann2> ok.
<smurf> OK ... conference packs.
<silbs> I also want the cheapest most efficient distribution system. if anyone, anywhere in the world, can find a producer than can meet or beat our current costs of production and fulfillment, we'll spread the load around
<rejden> silbs, i don't think that will be possible everywhere....
<Yann2> silbs > it's about shipping, not produce; we wanted to reduce shipping costs 
<Yann2> i don't think we can produce cds for .45EUR
<Yann2> (in france)
<rejden> we can't in europe
<ian_brasil> silbs:i think kiko has some prices from Brasil 
<silbs> Yann2: shipping from NL to FR is not that expensive.  Shipping 20K CDs via TNT is.  Go to the TNT website and use their online calculator to work out how much
<silbs> ian_brasil: yes, he's passed them to me
<smurf> Yann2: then don't -- that's not a problem
<mitsuhiko> a producer in the USA whould be good
<Yann2> oh, i didn't knew the cds were produces in NL.
<Yann2> well then forget it :)
<silbs> ian_brasil: trying to work through them 
* mdke blinks
<smurf> Umm... I do think we'd like to focus this meeting a bit more ...
<Yann2> so, then that's it
<Yann2> oh :)
<smurf> what's the conference pack situation?
<smurf> *somebody* put that agenda item there ;-)
<silbs> materials are being produced. Lacking any response to my mail on the list, we've decided that we will construct a standard pack and send it out upon request
<silbs> the pack will have a fixed # of t-shirts, stickers and leaflets in it
<Yann2> brb
<rejden> silbs, can you give url at that email please?
<silbs> we'll add posters when designed.  Everyone gets the same number of various items
<silbs> rejden: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2005-September/000135.html
<rejden> silbs, ok, so order of conference packs should be via you?
<silbs> rejden: no
<silbs> rejden: when they are available we'll post the email address
<rejden> ok
<silbs> please, please, please do not send requests to me :)
<smurf> silbs: approximate date for availability?
<mdke> haha
<rejden> and that time frame you see?
<rejden> silbs, we will spam you!
<silbs> a week or two
<mdke> silbs has a limit to her mailbox size
<rejden> silbs, do you think it's possible to get it to slovakia before 10 of november?
<ian_brasil> silbs:i prefer Option 2
<silbs> actually, we can start taking orders now
<Yann2> re
<rejden> silbs, at your email right? :D
<silbs> we'll ge tthat up and running. Thngs are stil being produced though, so can't send out for a week or so
<smurf> silbs: that would be good
<Yann2> what's exactly in these packs? you talked about expensive banners we'd have to keep
<ian_brasil> wow...how cool is this...
<silbs> rejden: I don't know. We'll have to do it for a while to encounter all the issues with shipping times, customs in various countries, etc.
<smurf> I'd suggest that the locoteams get to organize store+forward of any leftovers to the next local event
<silbs> Yann2: no, not doing those now. Of course that would be a great thing for LoCo teams to print.
<silbs> smurf: good idea
<rejden> silbs, cos we have the bigest FOSS event then... and we have some ubuntu workshops and presentations there...
<ian_brasil> smurf:+1
<Yann2> +1 too
<rejden> +1
<Yann2> we have a room in Paris and money that should do it for the conference packs
<silbs> I think LoCo teams in general have to understand that we simply can't provide CDs and t-shirts and other stuff for every event you wan tto do
<smurf> same with CDs of course. I would have absolutely no idea how much of that stuff walks away on a typical day. :-/
<silbs> the world is too big, Ubuntu is too popular, stuff is too expensive
<ian_brasil> silbs:+2 ;)
<Yann2> silbs > what would you suggest then?
* mdke nods
<mdke> Yann2, just get on with it?
<Yann2> mdke > of course, just we can't produce cds on our own ;)
<mdke> nope
<mdke> nor can fedora-fr
<mdke> they can't order them for free either
<smurf> Yann2: put the artwork onto the web so that people can iron it oonto their own tshirts ;-)
<silbs> mdke +1
<silbs> there are lots of things that help Ubuntu that LoCo teams can do without large numbers of CDs
<Yann2> mdke  > shipping cds for free was not my idea :p
<mdke> yep
<smurf> silbs: +1
<silbs> have install fests, get your local press to write about Ubuntu
<silbs> submit stories of cool local uses of Ubuntu to The Fridge
<ian_brasil> recycle
<silbs> ian_brasil +1
<rejden> well, yes, we already did that, i thought we are discussing the cds and conference packs
<rejden> what about to define "how big the event should be" for you to support it
<smurf> rejden: the point is to focus on that, not on giving away free buttons and t-shirts
<silbs> we will put all the artwork for the CDs (faces & packaging) on the wiki
<Yann2> silbs > we are trying to do all that :)
<silbs> Yann2: that's great, keep it up :)
<rejden> smurf, did i say something about buttons and shirts?
<smurf> rejden: not you specifically
<mdke> Yann2, but don't feel that you have to try and do too much, concentrate on what you can do
<Yann2> silbs > it won't be a problem if ubuntu suddenly stops to produce cds, but it's true that the cds are a cause of the rapid growth of ubuntu
<rejden> smurf, i'm just curious about those cds and conference packs, we still have some 5.04 but it might be gone until then
<Yann2> mdke > we really can do much ;) 
<mdke> Yann2, yes
<Yann2> so I think we're off topic for a long time now
<Yann2> trademark agreement: will be discussed per mail
<smurf> Yann2: somewhat ;-)
<smurf> OK... anything else on conference packs?
<smurf> I hope not :)
<Yann2> shipping cds: abandoned, not useful as the cds are shipped from the NL
<Yann2> Conference packs, i think everything's clear
<smurf> last item: locoteam team
<smurf> I don't know who added that to the agenda; I submit that we already have one ;-)
<Yann2> smurf > don't think there is a need for this as there iare locoteam meeting now.
<smurf> Yann2: that too.
<Yann2> smurf > oh? which is? :D
<Mark_Ramm> Is the idea to have people recruting LoCo teams in new places?
<silbs> the CC approves new teams. If there is a need for a LoCo Team Team, it should be proposed to them.  Usually the CC wants to know what the team will be doing, that there is enough demand for it and who the leader is (because small  leaderless teams turn into inactive teams)
<mdke> silbs, there kind of is one already, loco-contacts, but it is not official i guess
<silbs> mdke: yes, it does seem like it is a de facto team.
<sabdfl> happy to make it official, if it goes through the simple process
<silbs> it's up to you guys if you want to make it official
<mdke> it is simply for the purposes of the mailing list, and these meeting afaics :)
<Yann2> silbs > the idea was 2 or 3 persons gathering information among canonical and distributing them to other locoteams, but I don't think there is a need for that anymore, as i'm quite pleased with how the things are now
<smurf> we'll do a short report at the next CC meeting
<smurf> and tell them that yes, there is such a team ;-)
<mdke> cool i gtg
<mdke> thanks all
<smurf> likewise
<Yann2> so
<smurf> my kida are getting demanding too ;-)
<Yann2> bye, thanks for your time
<smurf> kids
<ian_brasil> i think we are forgetting something
<smurf> seconded; thanks for your time and input everybody
<smurf> ian_brasil: ?
<rejden> well, i don't think we agreed on something at all ;)
<ian_brasil> we are having a full moon party called 'Penguin on the Beach' (it is better in Portuguese:) to celebrate the launch of breezy...everyone is welcome !!
<ian_brasil> http://www.ubuntu-br.org/Wiki/EventosUbuntuBr
<ian_brasil> what are others doing?
<rejden> well, we don't have beach
<rejden> :)
<silbs> ian_brasil: great!
<smurf> that's a good topic for The Fridge
<titus`lap> http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/evenements/breezy_party
<ian_brasil> we need to make some noise ,no
<silbs> release parties are a good LoCo team activity - gather Ubunteros or potential Ubunteros and debate the merits of your favorite Ubuntu controversy over beers.
<Mark_Ramm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseParty
<smurf> Mark_Ramm: thanks for the link
<smurf> OK, are we done *now*?  ;-) :-)
<ian_brasil> we have some peoplewho have nothing to do with the party/launch trying tomtake credit for it
<ian_brasil> sort of reflected glory i think
<ian_brasil> i am not sure how we can resolve this easily
<ian_brasil> we have no formal structure to say this is an event of ubuntu brazil
<Mark_Ramm> ian_brasil:  that sucks! Perhaps you can use it as a chance to talk/pressure them into getting involved.
<ian_brasil> i can try 
<ian_brasil> i am not sure this is appropriate to be discussed here
<Mark_Ramm> it's best if you can bring people into the community rather than letting them divide the community
<Mark_Ramm> Agreed.   
<ian_brasil> just wanted to let you know of the problems we are facing
<smurf> ian_brasil: if you need further input, the -contacts list might be a good place to ask people
<ian_brasil> ok,thx
<smurf> unfortunately such problems tend not to have easy solutions :-/
<ian_brasil> as long as they have solutions ;)
<smurf> OK, everybody, I need to go (the kids are now *hungry*) ...
<smurf> need to take the opportunity before they grab the junk food. Another problem with no easy solution ;-)
<smurf> Can somebody mail a summary to the list?
<ian_brasil> ok, i will do it
<smurf> ian_brasil: thanks
<smurf> ... until next time ...
<smurf> thanks for your time and input everybody
<silbs> bye all, thanks
<smurf> hmm, I guess I already said that ;-)
<ian_brasil> eek, anyone logging this channel??
<rejden> smurf, yes ;)
<ian_brasil> can they mail me a copy vern@riseup.net
<smurf> ian_brasil: ubuntulog -- that's at people.u.com/~fabbione/irclogs, IIRC
<lastone> Mithrandir, hi. [c]  Ivarix
<lastone> mitsuhiko, hi! [c]  Ivar
<coobra> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-09
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU |
<sivang> don't we suppose to have a TB meeting now?
<ogra> sivang, wrong time
<sivang> ogra: bah, I thought I was UTC+2 , thanks I will recheck
<\sh> sivang: 20 UTC == 22 Uhr German Time ;)
<ogra> \sh, and .il time ? 
<\sh> .il ? 
<\sh> iceland?
<ogra> israel
<\sh> puhh
<\sh> w8
<sivang> israel, 23:00 
<\sh> dubai is +3
<sivang> I am currently +3
<sivang> \sh: yes :)
<\sh> sivang: ok..yeah ;)
<sivang> ogra: I want to be approved as MOTU, on track for main maintainership for working on more lp integration, and printing stuff
<ogra> sivang, you'll have to care for some universe paqckages for some time first...
<ogra> especially for main approval this will be requied
<ogra> ask \sh how many hundret packages he had to fix before being approved for main
<sivang> ogra: Do you recall I already asked you if I can be approved based on my main works?
<ogra> sivang, yes, for MOTU i'm fine with it...
<sivang> ogra: ah ok, got you :)
<ogra> sivang, but for main there will be deep packaging experience required
<\sh> ogra: please...I want to stay in the back :)
<ogra> \sh, i didnt want to push you to the front of the stage ;)
<sivang> ogra: I imagine. Did tseng did this the same? afaik he was approved specifically for mono, I desire the same thing for lpi and printing stuff , but I understand that.
<ogra> sivang, there is no such thing like specifically for...
<sivang> ogra: I see
<ogra> if you got main approval, you can touch all main packages
<sivang> ogra: I know, but I would never dream of touching anything else then what I said I want to touch ;-)
<\sh> sivang: but u don't want to...and if someone's asking you to take over a package, say "no" ,-) or you have something like xterm on your bum ;)
<ogra> sivang, doesnt matter...
<ogra> sivang, the thing is that you *can* so your experience must be proven
<ogra> even for stuff you wont touch
<sivang> ogra: I see, ok
* sivang meh's at the slowness of package building on this machine. I need my desktop here
<sivang> ogra: how many packages did you work on before being approved for main?
<ogra> sivang, no idea, but it were quite a lot...
<ogra> i worked some months on universe packages
<sivang> ogra: yes, I remember
<sivang> ogra: if only I had all day to do it, who knows, I may eventually make my days freee for that :) just like you did
<siretart> hi sistpoty 
<sistpoty> huhu
<ogra> yay, you made it this time ? 
<sistpoty> yep
<ogra> great :) 
<ogra> finally :)
<sistpoty> hehe... sorry for my missing last time, i simply didn't recognize it was meeting time ;)
<ogra> you made it this time, thats enough :)
<ogra> and with even more practise now
<sistpoty> that's true
<sistpoty> ogra: btw.: hat has newer upstream to fix ftbfs... do you mind? ;)
<ogra> hat ?
<ogra> whats hat ? 
<sistpoty> haskell source tracer
<ogra> if it fixes ftbfs and doesnt brak oter stuff, thats fine ...
<ogra> *break
<sistpoty> I doubt it won't... (no rdepends
<sistpoty> +)
<sistpoty> err... i doubt it will break stuff, even
<sivang> ogra: I filed a join request to MOTU
<ogra> sistpoty, fine then
<sistpoty> :)
<pitti> Hi
<sivang> pitti: wb
<\sh> k..20 UTC
<siretart> did we already start?
<sistpoty> no, not on this half of the net ;)
<siretart> hehe
<sivang> we need to wait for mdz no?
* bddebian can't stay long :-(
* slomo neither
* sivang whistles
<siretart> quorum?
* pitti pinged Kamion
<pitti> ... and mdz, a while ago
<bddebian> Do be do be dooo
<ogra> doko will be late he said
* bddebian should add himself to the Core team ;-)
<sistpoty> is this a request or a threat? ;)
<\sh> hmm....daniels and bddebian working together on xorg...A wonderful changelog dream ,-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, go ahead
<ajmitch> bddebian: then we can pull out all your MOTU horror stories >:)
<bddebian> Hmm
<sivang> bddebian: getting approved as a main maintainer? yay for you!
<\sh> [bddebian] : introduced new features for i810\n[daniels] : fixed new features of bddebian for i810 (removed)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thanks, I can always count on you for support ;-P
<bddebian> \sh: ???
<\sh> bddebian: nothing...
<bddebian> sivang: No, I was kidding
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> \sh: Where did that come from?
<sivang> bddebian: then we can kid together :)
<\sh> bddebian: just typed it
<bddebian> Oh,hehe
<ajmitch> \sh: would that be for release day - 1? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...can be ;)
<sistpoty> btw.: I saw some irclog with \sh on a screensaver, but can't remember what screensaver that was...
<\sh> bddebian: or what about a job as elmos left hand?
<\sh> what?
<\sh> sistpoty: rssreader ?
<ogra> there are several
<sistpoty> no idea... just had the screensavers set to random
<\sh> with \sh on it?
<sistpoty> yep
<ogra> the text screensavers all read planet if a connection is available
<\sh> without my permission? 
<sistpoty> ah... thx ogra
* \sh 's not a screensaver
* sivang notes that's an interesting TB meeting.
<ogra> \sh, you published on planet ;)
<\sh> ogra: that raises some ideas
<bmonty> hi everyone
<sistpoty> fortunes-motu?
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<\sh> publishing blogentries with embedded midi sounds
<ogra> eek
<slomo> \sh: like a firework? ;)
<ogra> the xscreensaver-text programm wont read it then :)
<\sh> slomo: yeah..to get those nice bug reports again: "Screensaver bla disturbed me when I watched Katie Price" ;)
<doko> hi
<sivang> hey folks
<slomo> doko: while you're here... read my mail?
<mdz> good morning
<ogra> hi mdz
<doko> slmo: whichone?
<slomo> hi mdz 
<sistpoty> hi mdke
<sistpoty> mdz even ;)
<sivang> hey mdz , doko 
<\sh> evening mdz
<ajmitch> morning mdz :)
<slomo> doko: my only one to you until now ;) about swt-gtk and eclipse... did you already ask elmo, infinity or lamont to remove it from pas to get it build on amd64/ppc?
<ogra> \sh, to see katie price just select webwhacker ;)
<doko> slomo: pending
<\sh> ogra: no...I don't want to see her
<ogra> \sh, but do it soon, i'll disable it in the next upload of the package
<slomo> doko: ok, fine :)
<\sh> ogra: btw...http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64574 ;)
<mdz> so we have 11 new developer candidates according to launchpad
<mdz> dholbach: are you changing launchpad accounts, or did you list yourself by mistake?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> he wants to be a MOTU
<\sh> mdz: he needs to be approved ;)
<siretart> *g*
<bddebian> \sh: I wouldn't mind but elmo would probably kill me ;-)
<mdz> no he doesn't; he is already a member of ubuntu-core-dev
<dholbach> mdz: i changed the mail adress, maybe that's the reason?
* ogra gives a thimbs up for dholbach approval
<ogra> thumbs even
<dholbach> ogra: thank you :)
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> hehe
<sivang> guys, there are people here waiting for approval that really need it :)
<mdz> ok, we'll go with oldest first
<mdz> is Dmitri Alenitchev here?
<ogra> no idea who that is
<\sh> never saw him...dunno who that is
* bddebian either
<sivang> mdz: I thought I was the oldest :)
<sivang> (that didn't get approved so far)
<mdz> sivang: you are not on the list
<sivang> mdz: MOTU list? I added myself in launchapd
<\sh> sivang: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members
<mdz> sivang: you applied for core, not motu
<bddebian> w00t
<mdz> I am going to decline Dmitri since clearly he isn't aware of the right procedures
<mdz> Dmitri Alenitchev?
<sivang> mdz: yes, in which I wish to decline this applicatio and replace it in MOTU application, if this is the right place for it
<mdz> er
<mdz> Jorge Daza Garca-Blanes?
<mdz> sivang: no, the right place to apply is launchpad
<ogra> mdz, i stil had no time to look up the log, sorry
<mdz> sivang: the url that \sh gave above
<mdz> StefanPotyra?
* sistpoty is StefanPotyra
<sivang> mdz: yes, well, I filed an application for MOTU about 2 hours ago, with the support of ogra
<ogra> mdz,  Jorge Daza Garca-Blanes == comadreja is still motu since months
<siretart> thats sistpoty
<bddebian> sistpoty: ++
<mdz> sivang: you must have applied to the wrong team
<ogra> sistpoty++
<sivang> mdz: I'll retry
<mdz> ogra: I don't remember it, so you need to give me the reference
<mdz> is sistpoty here?
<siretart> sistpoty has got  a dozen packages sponsored
<ogra> mr. haskell :)
<sistpoty> I'm around, yes
<sistpoty> thx. for the cheers
<mdz> sistpoty: and you are applying for MOTU?
<sistpoty> yes, I am
<ogra> mdz, he already did once and was postponed
* dholbach would like to have sistpoty in the team too
<\sh> sistpoty contributed very well to the motu...and regarding his work on revu...++ from me
<ogra> then he couldnt attend some meetings
<siretart> he proved packaging and communicationss kills when handling gvr. There was a packaging bug, and upstream asked what was going on. Stefan replied really quick and the issue could be resolved in less than 48 hours
<siretart> sistpoty: I think in less than 24h, no?
<ogra> but he made the ghc trransition happen on his own :)
<sistpoty> siretart: actually it took some longer... maybe 3 days
<sivang> mdz: redid it, weird, I guess I Have applied for the wrong team at start.
<bddebian> Sorry gang, have to run.  Maybe I'll make it home in time to catch the rest..
<sivang> bddebian: later
<sistpoty> ogra: slome did very much help, and ghc-transition isn't done yet ;)
<sistpoty> slomo even
<mdz> ogra: the team called 'motu' should be removed to avoid confusion
<dholbach> and he's modest :)
<ogra> mdz, its our bug team for default assignment...
* slomo also votes for sistpoty... he was very helpfull with haskell stuff and is really good at fixing difficult packages :)
<ogra> mdz, we use it quite some time already...
* sivang wonders why he can't see himself as a proposed membber
<mdz> ogra: there is no reason to have two teams, and ubuntu-dev is the one which has been created according to the governance rules and will be used for archive access control
<ogra> mdz, will take some time to rearrange stuff, but i'll remove it once all references are gone
<mdz> sivang: you're there now
<sivang> mdz: k, thanks bmonty noted that to me :)
<Seveas> ogra, maybe you can rename it to motu-bugsquashers?
<ogra> Seveas, i'll just delete it...
<ogra> its just very old and what we use since we use maolne
<mdz> I've just been in touch with Keybuk, and he is unable to get network access where he is
<ogra> thre are wiki references etc
<mdz> sabdfl is travelling and unable to attend the meeting
<mdz> so we do not have a quorum here
<ogra> sad for sistpoty who will be postponed again...
<siretart> :(
<mdz> normally I would suggest that we schedule a meeting for next week, but we have the release
<mdz> I'll see if we can set one up for later this week
<mdz> watch ubuntu-devel
<ogra> yes, but there is nothing else on the agenda (excapt someone added anything)
<ogra> *except
<mdz> right, any other business?
<sivang> ogra: then we'll have a quick meeting :)
<bmonty> mdz: is it possible to have the next meeting during the weekend?
<mdz> I apologize to the applicants who are deferred because of this, but Scott was pulled away at the last minute for work-related reasons
<bmonty> I had to request time off from work to come to this meeting
<ogra> bmonty, thats hard to decide in absence of the people in charge
<mdz> bmonty: it may be possible
<siretart> is there anything we can do to reduce noise on ubuntu-devel mailinglist?
<sivang> siretart++
<mdz> moderate the list
<ogra> siretart, ubuntugeek promised to shut down the form link
<ajmitch> mdz: shall I ping elmo about about keyring maintenance?
<mdz> ajmitch: specifically?
<sivang> mdz: it's very hard tracking it for people which must be busy with non ubuntu stuff during to week, and caching on K's of emails on the weekends delays development work
<ajmitch> mdz: I was approved for main, sent my key to him but am not in the keyring yet
<mdz> ajmitch: are you properly registered in launchpad?
<mdz> ajmitch: how long ago did you send it?
<ajmitch> mdz: yes, I was approved here a few weeks ago
<ajmitch> approx 3 weeks ago, I'll check
<ajmitch> sent him key on the 20th
<ajmitch> I assumed he'd just be quite busy
<mdz> he is, but that is more than enough time to respond
<ajmitch> I know he got the email, since he processed the sync requests in it
<mdz> perhaps he missed the keyring matter because it was bundled with sync requests
<mdz> resend it and CC me
<ajmitch> certainly
<mdz> sivang: I recommend mutt's thread-delete feature (^D)
<mdz> any other business for the board before we adjourn?
<Seveas> mdz, no but I have a questiion directed to you personally
<mdz> meeting adjourned
<mdz> Seveas: ->#ubuntu-devel
<Seveas> k
<sivang> mdz: ok then, but not alwasy easy to decide if a thread is important or not, and I've seen threads that have almost arbirary subjects , and were important.
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-02
<joejaxx> @meeting
<joejaxx> hmm
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 04 Oct 01:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sharms> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-03
<Russell> !time
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<frodon> hi
<zakame> hello frodon 
<tseliot> hi guys ;)
<frodon> hi tseliot ;)
<lophyte> howdy all
<zakame> hi tseliot lophyte 
<joejaxx> lophyte: hello
<lophyte> hey joejaxx
<lophyte> long time no see
<joejaxx> yes
<gnomefreak> bot seems a bit eager to start
<juliux> hi all
* pitti waves to juliux 
<zakame> yo pitti keescook LaserJock juliux 
<juliux> hi zakame 
<pitti> hi zakame 
<keescook> hiya zakame 
<zakame> been a while since I've attended a CC hehe
<joejaxx> hello LaserJock 
<Ekushey> the meeting started already?
<LaserJock> hi everyvody
<juliux> hi LaserJock 
<gnomefreak> no
<matid> Hello everyone
<zakame> not yet, a couple of minutes to go
<sivang> hello all
<pitti> dholbach: Alter!
<keescook> hiya dholbach
<dholbach> pitti: Hello! - hello everybody else
<gnomefreak> hi dholbach 
<juliux> hi dholbach 
* sivang finally manages to make it into a u-m meeting :-)
<zakame> hi dholbach, sivang :D
<matid> dholbach: hi
<tseliot> hi
* sivang hugs zakame 
<zakame> sivang: hehe I missed hat :)
<zakame> *that
<zakame> when's the coming hug day again?
<Ekushey> okkkk
<Ekushey> i'm lagging badly
<sivang> I'm always in place to revive old traditions ;-)
<dholbach> zakame: tomorrow
<zakame> Ekushey: don't worry, I'm having bad lag too
<zakame> dholbach: w00t
<zakame> hi mako
<sivang> no lags here still, but they will come
<pitti> hey elmo
<nixternal> hello everyone!
<zakame> yo elmo
<zakame> hi nixternal 
<tseliot> hi
<tomveens> hello
<matid> Hi seb128
<seb128> hi
<zakame> hi seb128
<tseliot> hi
<zakame> now this is what I love in these meeings, the `hi all' part :)
<sebastean> hi zakame ;)
<keescook> heh
<tomveens> hey joejaxx
<zakame> yo sebastean 
<joejaxx> tomveens: hello
* jenda passes
<zakame> hi jenda 
<mako> alright
<elmo> I've SMSed kamion
<mako> alright
<Ekushey> isn't it meeting time?
<zakame> Ekushey: it is now
<Ekushey> zakame: oh ok!
<gnomefreak> Ekushey: we are waiting for a few people
<mako> elmo: and mark?
<Ekushey> gnomefreak: ok!
<tomveens> You think there is time to buy a pack of sigarettes?
<zakame> tomveens: buy quickly
<elmo> ok, so kamion is unavailable for at least 20 minutes.  however, mark is around. he's just walking over to his flat, should be with us in 5 minutes or so
<Ekushey> lol depends on how far the shop is
<zakame> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> Hi zakame 
<elmo> sorry about this
<zakame> elmo: about? delay?
<superm1> so guys we gonna shoot for <3 hours this time? :)
<zakame> superm1: heh misread that as <3 <- heart
<superm1> haha
<highvoltage> is CC meeting over?
<gnomefreak> highvoltage: waiting to start
<zakame> highvoltage: LOL
<jenda> highvoltage: great idea - let's call it a day :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<highvoltage> :)
<mako> i'm going to have to leave at UTC18
<mako> but if both kamion and sabdfl show up, that should be fine
<elmo> kamion should be back by UTC18
* zakame needs a coke, but the stores are all asleep
<Ekushey> zakame: drink tea
<Seveas> meeting not started?
<mako> waiting for a third
<Seveas> ok
<zakame> Ekushey: hmm, I think I have some iced tea in the fridge.ubuntu.com
<zakame> Ekushey: hmm, I think I have some iced tea in the fridge.ubuntu.cerr ESUBS
<matid> ;)
<Seveas> then I made it after all
<joejaxx> hello Seveas 
<zakame> yo Seveas 
<sivang> hey Seveas 
<tomveens> Back with the sigarettes, missed something?
<Seveas> mako, did you read my e-mail regarding Rolando Blanco?
<gnomefreak> tomveens: not yet
<zakame> tomveens: not a mss at all
<highvoltage> hey se	
<sivang> hey highvoltage 
<tomveens> Who is the VIP we are waiting for?
<highvoltage> hey sivang :)
<mako> Seveas: yes
<zakame> tomveens: make that two, kamion and sabdfl
<zakame> hi Kamion :D
<gnomefreak> make that 1
<matid> mako: If you're around and we have some time - did you get my email asking for a review of my membership application? ;)
<Kamion> right, sorry about that
<matid> Hello Kamion
<tomveens> I want to thank them for giving me time buying siggies
<gnomefreak> hi Kamion ompaul 
<zakame> yo ompaul 
<elmo> ok, let's get started
<elmo> We'll skip the IRC item .. again
<Seveas> 
<elmo> do we need to revisit the localisation / translation team leader thing yet?
<elmo> Seveas: mark isn't here
<Seveas> elmo, I know, that's why I typed the smiley
<elmo> Seveas: oh - that looked like a '?' in my broken client
<zakame> it is a ?
<mako> i just assumed you were saying "tu"
<tomveens> Who has a broken client?
<Seveas> ah, sorry about that, I'll cut down on my unicode addiction. Anyway, what do people actually want from the CC regarding the localization business?
<elmo> I'm not sure - let's skip it for now, I'll talk to Mark OOB
* mako nods 
<makl10n> elmo: before you move ofrward I want to draw your attention toward my nomination
<elmo> makl10n: for the localization?  sure, did you want to say something about it?
<Kamion> makl10n: which one are you? just trying to map IRC nicks to wikinames
<Seveas> Mahay Alam Khan
<Kamion> ok
<makl10n> Seveas: yap
<makl10n> shall I change my nick
<Kamion> no
<Kamion> makl10n: would be nice if you set up your client so that /whois told us your name, though
<Kamion> doesn't require changing your nick
<zakame> hmm we forgot that; who's who?
* zakame is Zak elep
<makl10n> me using a bad client, can't find the option 
<makl10n> better change my nick.........
<Seveas> makl10n, what did you want to say regarding your nomination?
<Kamion> don't worry about the IRC configuration business now - we know who you are now
<xmakl10n> I want to withdraw my name ......... I
<makl10n> I thought you were having a tab complition conflict with mako
<makl10n> Kamion: I want to withdraw my nomination from the localisation / translation team leader
<elmo> makl10n: ok - any particular reason?
<makl10n> mmm... I guess OgMaciel is better than after going through his profile.
<OgMaciel> makl10n: ;)
<elmo> ok
<mako> that's fine
<makl10n> When I get the mail regarding the call for nomination, I thought you were asking  leader for individual language
<elmo> OgMaciel: does your new job change anything for you?
<OgMaciel> elmo: it just may
<makl10n> OgMaciel: hi
<Kamion> makl10n: ah, that seems to have been a not uncommon misunderstanding
<OgMaciel> makl10n: hello there
<elmo> OgMaciel: ok - can you let us (CC) know by email once you know for sure?
<elmo> shall we move onto loco teams?
<elmo> or team
<OgMaciel> elmo: will do... mind you I still don't have internet at home though
<OgMaciel> ;(
<makl10n> OgMaciel: I shall love to assist you ...if you ask. Only if the Localisation / Translation Leader needs an assistant ;)
<mako> lets move onto loco teams
<OgMaciel> makl10n: I believe this "job" is too big for someone going at it alone part-time... so a group of "assistants" would be awsome
<elmo> RussellJohn - here?
<OgMaciel> ;)
<mako> any word from sabdfl?
<Ekushey> elmo: present
<Ekushey> i represent the ubuntu-bd loco team
<elmo> mako: no - I wonder if he got lost :/ - I'll SMS ping him
<zakame> OgMaciel: is there some ToDo now up? :)
* Ekushey is lagging badly
<Seveas> Ekushey, could you please introduce the team 
<Ekushey> Seveas: the wikipage of the ubuntu-bd team lives at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BangladeshiTeam
<OgMaciel> zakame: we have actually drawn a few "duties"
<Ekushey> Seveas: and our site is at www.ubuntu-bd.org, which is localised in bengali
<zakame> OgMaciel: ooh! where can I find moreinfo
<makl10n> Seveas: what are duties of a LoCo team, and who should lead the team ?
<Ekushey> Seveas: we've a team of 20+ dedicated volunteers who are helping to spread ubuntu in bangladesh
<mako> Ekushey: wow, that's great
<Ekushey> Seveas: we're particularly intersted in promoting Edubuntu and Xubuntu
<mako> it sounds like your showing at the conference was also very strong
<Ekushey> mako: yeah, we're very happy about the week-long fair that we attended. some snapshots here: http://gallery.linux.org.bd/thumbnails.php?album=29
<Ekushey> the best part is that we got a lot press attention and the journalists got to know that there's something called ubuntu!
<makl10n> I regret to say, but I've objection about Bangladeshi loco team
<Ekushey> mako: do u have any particular question? i'm lagging badly and i might get disconnected in any time
<Seveas> makl10n, please share them
<zakame> mako: hmm why is that?
<makl10n> they just started doing these...but there are lots of people who has been doing things for OSS / Linux and particularly for Ubuntu.....why they are not in the team
<mako> makl10n: are you suggesting that they are not welcome in the team?
<zakame> err I mean makl10n 
<Ekushey> makl10n: for instance, whom?
<makl10n> yap, they are not welcome....... like me. I am not welcome nin the team
<zakame> hmm, why aren't you welcome?
<makl10n> zakame: I don't know !
<Ekushey> mak10n: u don't know? then how can u say this?
<Kamion> makl10n: did you try to join the team and were rejected?
<zakame> makl10n: you mean to say you an Ekushey belong to the same locality?
<makl10n> have you ever heard about Ankur Group of Bangladesh. they are doing the most of effort.....but the lead of that group Mr. Jamil Ahmed is not in the loco team
<gnomefreak> makl10n: you were deactivated if mak is you LP id
<Ekushey> Kamion: he left the launchpad team twice
<makl10n> yes, I can forward e-mail correspondence regardings this. (anyone can join online, but not welcome in their events)
<Ekushey> mak10n: can u please keep your personal interests out of this?
<Kamion> e-mails can be sent in confidence to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<Kamion> Ekushey: personal interests?
<Seveas> Ekushey, this does not seem to be 'personal interests'
<zakame> makl10n: but is this other group pushing for ubuntu, or just FOSS in general?
<makl10n> zakame: have you heard of Ankur Group 
<Ekushey> Seveas: he's mentioning about the LUG that i belonng to, not Ubuntu-BD
<zakame> makl10n: no, that's why I'm asking?
<Seveas> Ekushey, ah
<makl10n> this is the group working for last couple of years.......and the team working for lots of projects...just visit www.bengalinux.org
<Kamion> I can't make head or tail out of this. Please remember that the CC is not an expert in Bangladeshi LUG politics, and explain with that in mind
<zakame> makl10n: a LoCoTeam isn't exactly the same as a LUG, from my understanding
<Kamion> makl10n: it's perfectly reasonable for there to be a separate group doing Ubuntu-specific things, even if there are other local groups working to advance free software in general. Is that what you object to?
<zakame> makl10n: I for example belong to both PLUG and ubuntu-PH; each grp has their own goals and the means of achieving them
<mako> it's even ok to have overlapping locos, although it should definitely be avoided
<gnomefreak> ok that link doesnt say anything about ubuntu it is FLOSS
<makl10n> Yap, there should be a LoCo team, but who is leading the team
<makl10n> the man who is isolated for the FOSS community of a country
<mako> if the current membership or leadership of any loco is barring or making certain groups or individuals unwelcome, that's important for us to know
<Kamion> makl10n: "isolated"?
<Ekushey> ????
<jenda> <suggestion>I think both parties should send an email explaining their PoV to the CC, and perhaps bring back the topic next time? </suggestion>
<makl10n> jenda: you're correct.
<mako> it's not clear to me that all sides even understand what the problem is
<zakame> ummm, yes, perhaps more info ought to be brought up
<Kamion> I agree with jenda; there's obviously a lot of background argument here, which we need to be filled in on before making a decision
<makl10n> zakame: lets brought up in the next meeting
<jenda> mako: I think that would be clear from teh emails sent.
<makl10n> is anyone of you attended "debconf' in extremadura ?
<mako> no, although i don't see what that has to do with the ubuntu loco team
<Ekushey> mako: this guy was after us from the beginning
<Ekushey> mako: i really don't understand why he's after us
<Ekushey> mako: he's taking the entire issue personally...
<zakame> mako: thats a `many' :P
<Ekushey> mako: and he sent me hate mails when we formed the team!
<zakame> and yeah, what does debconf hav to do with this?
<makl10n> mako: then I would introduce someone better them him who deserve to be our (Bangladesh) loco team leader
<Kamion> Ekushey: if this is a case of a single person with a grudge, then that's not a barrier; but I'm sure you understand that we need to take complaints seriously
<Kamion> so it needs to be investigated
<Seveas> Ekushey, makl10n: please summarize your points of view in a mail to the council. This fight isn't going anywhere and in the interest of time we should be moving on
<zakame> Ekushey: well present some proof of it then
<mako> makl10n: you're going to need to explain what the problem is first
<mako> yes
<mako> and i'm running out of time here
<Ekushey> Kamion: sure thing. let him proof if he can.
<makl10n> thanks....
<makl10n> I don't want to prove anything, I just want to suggest better name for the LoCo team leader
<zakame> its kinda weird though; ai'nt ubuntu all about community? :P
<Kamion> makl10n: this isn't about nominations; other people who want to be involved in leading a loco team should step up themselves
<Kamion> we expect leaders to take their own initiative
<makl10n> please just go through this.......and rest will be in next meeting or in you mail boxes.... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bd/2006-July/000048.html
<Ekushey> God, this guy has personal problems with me and he's trying to ruin everything!
<zakame> ok, perhaps its time to move on
<makl10n> Ekushey: I didn't say anything personal. but you are bashing me .......
<Ekushey> mako, Seveas, zakame: what's my next step?
<amachu> hi
<amachu> every one
<zakame> yo amachu 
<Seveas> makl10n, Ekushey: please calm down
<zakame> Ekushey: heed Seveas 
<Seveas> Ekushey: please summarize your points of view in a mail to the council so this can be revisited next time
<mako> Ekushey: just email the council email list
<Kamion> Ekushey: best is to send a calm, reasoned mail to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com describing the situation and what effect it has on the bd team
<Ekushey> mako: sure, np
<tomveens> All we need is a smoke and a next subject
<mako> i really need to run, still no sign of mark?
<zakame> hmm I thought he's just walking to his flat or something?
<superm1> as we move on, i'm not sure how quickly we're going thru each applicant.  if we are running around 45 minutes from now, and I won't be making it up - could I possibly be bumped ahead?  I have to leave in 50 min
<amachu> zakame: i am here to volunteer for "Localisation / Translation Team Leader" 
<zakame> superm1: better prepare your arsenal then
<zakame> amachu: ping OgMaciel 
<elmo> mako: I'll phone him
<mako> great..
<elmo> while I'm doing that - we should decide if we want to do the kamion+elmo show, with you reading logs, or simply postpone or what
<amachu> OgMaciel: Hi, i am here to volunteer for "Localisation / Translation Team Leader" 
<superm1> I'll do the best I can, so long as i have MOTU buddies around :)
<LaserJock> heh
<zakame> superm1: ooh MOTU aspirant! :)
<sabdfl> hi folks
<gnomefreak> hi sabdfl 
<matid> Hi sabdfl
<tseliot> hi
<mako> sabdfl: great
<sabdfl> elmo: sorry, got to the phone as you hung up and realised...
* keescook waves hello
<zakame> heya sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hi all
<mako> sabdfl: i've got another meeting i need to run to
<mako> sabdfl: we're at new member candidates new
<amachu> zakame: is OgMaciel around?
<mako> now
<mako> i might be able to pop back in a bit
<zakame> amachu: he ought to be
<mako> and i'll definitely read teh log
<sabdfl> mako: ok i'll step into them shoes
<OgMaciel> amachu: hold on... be right back
<mako> talk to you soon!
<zakame> yo crimsun 
<sabdfl> who's first!
<amachu> OgMaciel: Ok
<elmo> DaveSullivan lophyte (September 18)
<lophyte> that's me
<zul> cd 
<elmo> lophyte: go for it
<lophyte> Hey everyone, my name is Dave Sullivan. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveSullivan, and my launchpad can be found at http://launchpad.net/people/dsullivan. I recently started the Toronto chapter of the ubuntu-ca team, and in just a week's time we managed to organize a successful Software Freedom Day celebration, in which we handed out nearly 100 CDs and over 150 brochures, advocating and raising awareness for Ubuntu
<lophyte> More details about my activity can be found on my wikipage. Thanks for your consideration. Any questions?
<sabdfl> lophyte: what kind of class?
<OgMaciel> amachu: let's take this offline but I'm afraid I don't have too much time
<lophyte> class?
<sabdfl> OgMaciel: congrats on the new post
<sabdfl> lophyte: "presentation on ubuntu to a class"
<amachu> OgMaciel: sure.. Please guide me what should i do?
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: thanks...  I'm very happy here indeed...  I think for the first time in a long time too
<lophyte> sabdfl: ahh.. the presentation was in a "professional skills" class, of mostly average end-users
<sabdfl> lophyte: what do you do in real life?
<lophyte> unemployed at the moment
<lophyte> looking for work.. preferably linux adminstrator type work
<sabdfl> lophyte: toronto loco team sounds very positive, what kind of folks are mostly members of the team?
<lophyte> we had about 10 people come out to our first meeting.. a few people who were completely new to Linux, a few who had used Linux but were new to Ubuntu, and a few who had been using Ubuntu for a while
<lophyte> so we had a good mix
<sabdfl> any interesting observations from the completely new folks?
<zakame> hmm intersting
<sivang> hi sabdfl 
<lophyte> well there was one guy who actually lives outside of the city.. he suggested we start a 'mentoring' program where more advanced users would mentor new users 1-on-1, and that's something we're definitely going to be discussing soon
<sabdfl> hey sivang!
<rexbron> hay lophyte
<lophyte> heya rexbron
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from for the loco work, elmo?
* sivang hugs sabdfl 
<nixternal> elmo, Seveas, Kamion, mako, sabdfl:  Thanks for holding this meeting first and foremost. lophyte is an outstanding contributor to the advocation of Ubuntu. He has successfully setup and runs the Ubuntu Toronto LoCo. He helps out tremendously with the UWN and is journying out further every day in the community. Outstanding candidate for Ubuntu Member!
<sabdfl> s/from/from me/
<nixternal> that took forever to type ;)
<lophyte> we also hope to get a few video-minded members together and shoot some ubuntu promotional videos to be posted on ubuntuvideo.com
<rexbron> yup
<tomveens> I'm thinking
<lophyte> rexbron's one of our members, actually :)
<rexbron> =D
<Kamion> ah, didn't realise you'd started on UWN work as well - that's listed as future plans on your wiki page
<sabdfl> hi kamion
<Kamion> hi, just alternating between dinner and meeting here
<jenda> I'll second nixternal on the UWN business.
<rexbron> I'm gussing that SFD has been mentioned...
<rexbron> eh lophyte?
<Kamion> I was just reading the SFD link off Dave's wiki page
<lophyte> rexbron: yup, its on my wikipage and I mentioned it earlier
<rexbron> good
<nixternal> yes Kamion, he helps out big time with UWN work and within the Ubuntu Marketing Team. Great ideas, and enjoys working on anything Ubuntu that he can. That I really appreciate in lophyte!
<Kamion> it sounds like it was a great success; impressive
<lophyte> also, the CC should have a recommendation for me from Corey Burger in their email
<lophyte> he sent it 2 weeks ago, approximately
<nixternal> as long as Ubuntu Toronto don't outshine Ubuntu Chicago I am OK :) muhehe
<lophyte> haha
<Kamion> ah, yes, indeed
<zakame> lol
<Kamion> "I have worked with Dave as part of the Ubuntu Canada loco team and have found him to be both consistency courteous and a hard worker. He recently organized the 2006 Software Freedom Day celebration in Toronto, including getting 6 other people to help out and securing a venue in a high traffic location. He has also been doing some general organization of Ubuntu users in Toronto."
<Kamion> (corey)
<Seveas> impressive
<Kamion> so I'm happy with lophyte, good testimonials for Ubuntu advocacy work and documentation
<sabdfl> do we need a third from elmo, or is two considered sufficient?
<Seveas> 2 down, one to go
<Seveas> sabdfl, so far the CC used majority voting
* lophyte wonders where elmo took off to
<nixternal> ice cream truck must have drove by his place
<lophyte> haha
<zakame> lol
<highvoltage> hehe
<Kamion> I wonder if they do Subway trucks ...
<nixternal> i wish
<sabdfl> elmo will be back in a sec
<Kamion> ok, let's keep going and he can catch up
<elmo> sorry, ack
<zakame> as in subway sandwich?
<Seveas> woo!
<sabdfl> welcome aboard lophyte!
<Seveas> lophyte, congratulations!
<Kamion> who wants to drive lp?
<zakame> oh there he is with the radio
<jenda> must've been the icecream.
<sabdfl> Kamion: willdo
<lophyte> thanks :D
<jenda> lophyte: congrats :)
<Kamion> well voluntold
<nixternal> lophyte: congrats homer!
<matid> lophyte: Congrats
<lophyte> thanks everyone
<Seveas> frodon, you're up
<frodon> yes i am ;)
<zakame> rock on lophyte 
<frodon> i will start presenting myself
<Seveas> good 
<frodon> I'm a french 25 years old digital designer for a semi-conductor company.
<frodon> Really impressed by ubuntu, i use this distribution since the beginning of hoary and decided to get involved helping users, writing guides and archiving usefull informations.
<frodon> I'm involved in the UDSF project since (almost) the beginning and i spend as many time as i can to make this project a success.
<frodon> I mainly provide support (more than 2500 posts) through www.ubuntuforums.org where i am a moderator since may 2006.
<frodon> I'm, in general, interested in providing support and documentation for ubuntu users.
<frodon> launchpad profile : https://launchpad.net/people/frodon
<Seveas> I'm still confused by the UDSF/docteam split - what's up with that?
<jenda> frodon has been a great help in the forums, but also in the forums' IRC channel (#ubuntuforums) - especially since he joined the forum staff.
<tseliot> Frodon is really an asset of the forum. He is doing an impressive work to keep the forum clean and ordered. And I guarantee that it's not an easy task, given the always increasing number of members (hence also of posts, spam, flamewars, etc.) of the forum. He's very efficient. Furthermore he is also an invaluable member of the UDSF and, in my opinion, one of the reasons of its success.
<LaserJock> Seveas: I believe it is a "work in progress" ;-)
<frodon> Seveas, it's just 2 differents ways to provide documentaion to ubuntu users
<jenda> (The question has been on my mind for a long time, Seveas. Would love to hear a good answer)
<Seveas> frodon, is there any collaboration between the 2 teams?
<frodon> the UDSF reach 2 milions hits last week :)
<frodon> yes there's a team created for this purpose
<Seveas> how's that going?
<jenda> frodon: isn't it a bit of effort waste, there? Why don't the teams work together on a single resource? The approaches don't seem all that different.
<frodon> https://launchpad.net/people/wikiforumteam
<frodon> unfortunatly this team isn't really active for the moment
<frodon> we have planned to share a page to collect togetther all the good guides generated by the forum
<Burgwork> basically the issue was that the UDSF viewed themselves are archivers of forum content, rather than creators of docuemntation
<nixternal> i can back frodon up on why it isn't that active right now. USDF posters/authors aren't responding to emails we send asking for their permission to post on our wiki
<frodon> exactly Burgwork 
<Burgwork> except that is not the view of the documentation team
<Burgwork> however, I am not certain we need to be discussing this right now
<Seveas> good point
<Seveas> but do you as docteam member think the udsf and thus frodons contribution to it is a good thing for the Ubuntu community?
<Burgwork> yes, totally
<sabdfl> frodon: what's ubuntu-graphic-drivers all about?
<Burgwork> given how inactive the doc team has been during edgy, we need all the people we can get
<tseliot> sabdfl: you can check this about the ubuntu-graphic-drivers
<frodon> it' a team created by tseliot, which maintain a repositoy with latest nvidia and ATI drivers
<tseliot> http://albertomilone.com/driver.html
<Seveas> sabdfl: tseliot expressed interest in integrating this with ubuntu proper at the previous meeting
<sabdfl> can either of you guys come to UDS Mountain View, Nov 5-10?
<Kamion> I was under the impression that l-r-m was reasonably up-to-date at the moment
<sabdfl> we'll be talking a lot about graphics drivers, aiglx
<tseliot> Unfortunately I can't
<Seveas> Kamion, for edgy yes, for dapper it may need an update
<tseliot> :-(
<sabdfl> and we'll have folks there from nvidia and ati as well as intel
<Kamion> Seveas: true
<Seveas> sabdfl, I'll be there and intend to join tseliots effort
<sabdfl> ok
<tseliot> great
<frodon> about doc team colaboration, we can easily on the UDSF side provide all the links to the good guides generated by the forum to the doc team and it's what we planned
<Seveas> (I already do updated fglrx)
<sabdfl> frodon: are you a forum moderator?
<Seveas> frodon, that would rock
<frodon> yes i am sabdfl 
<sabdfl> frodon: +1 from me on the basis of sustained forums contribution - kamion, elmo?
<elmo> ack WRT the forums.  it's perhaps orthogonal to frodon's application, but I'm a little concerned by the UDSF/wiki split
<elmo> sorry, typing and talking
<elmo> I meant.  'ack to frodon, also on the basis of sustained forums and UDSF work'
<sabdfl> agreed on the udsf / docteam needs addressing, i wonder if there will be reps of both at uds?
<Kamion> I remember we went over the UDSF fairly exhaustively a year or so back - might be worth digging out the IRC logs and seeing what's changed
<frodon> other point, the wiki license is not really compliant to collect information from the forum
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I'll be there for doc team
<Kamion> I'm fine with frodon for membership on the basis of sustained forums staff work
<Seveas> frodon, congratulations!
<tseliot> Congrats!
<LaserJock> I believe the biggest issue is licensing, wrt to doc team/UDSF
<zakame> congrats frodon 
<matid> Congratulations
<frodon> thanks :)
<Seveas> sebastean, you're up next
<sebastean> hello
<superm1> Now, sebastean, joejaxx ahod__  would you mind me jumping ahead of you given how long these are running?  I'm going to be having to leave in about 15-20 min.
<sebastean> ok
<ahod__> You can go ahead of me
<joejaxx> sure i think i might have to go next time at the current moment
<superm1> ok 
<Seveas> superm1, ok, please go ahead
<superm1> ok thx
<superm1> Hi, My name is Mario Limonciello (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/superm1).  I was present at the last CC meeting.
<superm1> I have been doing some work with the MOTU team the last few weeks with regards to backstep, mythtv, and mythplugins and was looking to apply for membership, and eventually MOTUship.
<superm1> I've put in a big effort in getting the mythtv suite up to the current release version, and had quite a few late nights in #ubuntu-motu straightening out correct format for packaging and such.
<superm1> Last time you guys mentioned to bring along someone, so i wooed Laserjock & imbrandon into tagging along :)
<Seveas> superm1, how long have you been active within the MOTU?
<superm1> well i'd say its been about a month now
<superm1> i did the packaging for backstep myself, with a few revus
<superm1> since it wasn't in debian
<Seveas> superm1, if MOTU contibutions are your only contributions then we will have to ask you to come back later. Generally we look for at least two months of sustained activity
<Kamion> there's quite a bit on that wiki page - just reading
<superm1> Seveas, i have been maintaining a myth repo actually the last few months
<tomveens> are these rules written?
<superm1> before i started to get into MOTU
<Seveas> ah
<superm1> since around aprilish
<superm1> i just wanted to make this official
<superm1> and start getting things into universe and multiverse properly
<sabdfl> superm1: i'm very excited by the mythtv work, it's an amazing platform but i think one where the quality of packaging is essential
<Seveas> that is great
* Seveas agrees with sabdfl
<Seveas> LaserJock, imbrandon: can you comment on/cheerlead for superm1?
<LaserJock> sure
* keescook is looking forward to getting some time to try out superm1's mythtv packages.  :)
<LaserJock> I helped superm1 with backstep
<LaserJock> he's doing good work in -motu
<LaserJock> learning packaging, integrating into the team
<LaserJock> there are a few MOTUs looking at mythtv
<LaserJock> so it's good to have somebody else hop on board and put time into it
<superm1> I remember back in breezyish days how myth just worked out of the box without compiling and such.  I am hoping to help keep it that way for edgy, edgy+n
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the back of motu contribution, ati driver beta team, mythtv and a clear picture of what superm1 is working on
<sabdfl> superm1: any chance you can make it to Mountain View, Nov 5-10, to meet with the other multimedia guys who are gathering there?
<superm1> I'd have to see
<superm1> i'd love to
<superm1> have to talk to real life employer and such :)
<sabdfl> ok, see if you can make it - should be a big multimedia buzz
<sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
<Kamion> just reading still
<elmo> ack from me
<Kamion> yeah, this is looking good to me, really glad to have somebody looking after mythtv properly
<Kamion> +1
<superm1> yay! :)
<sabdfl> superm1: have you applied for membership in ubuntumembers in LP?>
<Seveas> congratulations superm1!
<sabdfl> i am trying to approve you there but don't see the request
<Seveas> sebastean, now you're really up next
<matid> Congratulations!
<superm1> Oh no i haven't, i didn't realize i was supposed to 
<zakame> rock the MOTU superm1 
<superm1> i'll look for it really quick and add myself
<Kamion> superm1: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join
<sebastean> Hello, I'm a member of the LoCo Ubuntu Sweden, and what I do is to check so everything works because I'm the leader, after ozamosi who started the LoCo. We have this website, ubuntu-se.org, with a a forum and a wiki, and I help admin and moderators out, plan for the future and so on, I'm also the contact person for members. I like graphics and I hav design the theme for the forum and some posters... 
<Kamion> (from memory)
<sebastean> was it my turn.. ?
<Kamion> sebastean: yep
<superm1> sabdfl, okay i added
<sabdfl> sebastean: how long have you been leading ubuntu-se.org?
<sebastean> good, I did som preporation..
<sebastean> 1 month maybe..
<sebastean> not a long time
<ozamosi> he's been very active in the loco before that as well
<sebastean> a started to write alot in the forum helpin out..
<sabdfl> sebastean: wiki page? lp url?
<sebastean> Ihttp://ubuntu-se.org/Wiki
<sebastean> what is lp?
<matid> Launchpad
<sabdfl> we usually ask folks to prepare a wiki page for themselves which outlines their contribution and plans
<sebastean> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohanLundmark
<sabdfl> also, folks usually register in Lp so we can see what bug tracking, translation etc they are contributing
<sebastean> here it is ;)
<sebastean> I've not done any translation yet but I will to get to know all of the parts of the LoCo
<sabdfl> sebastean: ok, i very much like the fact that you are stepping up to a leadership role in your loco team, but I think you need to spend a bit more time learning more about how the ubuntu community organises itself
<sabdfl> for example, LP (translation, bug fixing, etc)
<sabdfl> i think if you make some good contributions there over the course of the next month you would IMO be over the threshold
<sabdfl> sound reasonable?
<sebastean> ok
<sebastean> yeah thats fine
<sabdfl> ok cool - generally very good work, loco teams are very important
<sabdfl> unless elmo or kamion feel differently, let's jump to the next candidate.
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: are we skipping you today?
<Kamion> no, that's fine by me, sounds like he's on the right track but ...
<gnomefreak> you were 2 people ago
<joejaxx> no we are not i was wanting my turn
<gnomefreak> k
<sabdfl> joejaxx: roll on
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: superm1 wanted to go ahead of me
<joejaxx> Good Afternoon Everyone. My name is Joseph Jackson IV (I am also known in the open source world as Joe Jaxx). I am 19, a student, os developer and windows sys/net administrator. I love programming and operating system development. I discovered the Ubuntu Linux Project about a year ago and I have been involved ever since. I am a strong advocate for Ubuntu because of its excellent hardware support and open community. I am mostly involved in pr
<elmo> (fine by me too)
<Kamion> joejaxx: you were cut off at "involved in pr"
<Kamion> (IRC has a line length limit)
<joejaxx> whoops
<joejaxx>  I am mostly involved in providing support to Ubuntu users and I am also involved in the Mubuntu Project. The future that I whould like to see for Ubuntu is having it run on a vast range of computers (older and newer), which is why i created Fluxbuntu. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoeJaxx and my Launchpad page is https://launchpad.net/people/joejaxx.
<tomveens> looks great
<Seveas> doesn't look too great me, to be honest. Most of joejaxx' effort is spent on fluxbuntu, which is not part of the ubuntu project. And grep joejaxx #ubuntu.log | wc -l only says 10
<Seveas> other than that, he'sa great guy and fluxbuntu is cool
<joejaxx> Seveas: i most give support outside of that channel
<Seveas> I wish it'd be integrated in ubuntu proper
<joejaxx> mostly*
<sabdfl> tell us about fluxbuntu?
<gnomefreak> i agree with Seveas 
<Seveas> joejaxx, unfortunately there's no way for us to confirm that
<joejaxx> Seveas: yeah i know
<joejaxx> it is quite alright
<zakame> IRQ: I'm supposed to cheer keescook on his membership, but I have to go now since I've pretty much lost sleep tonight.  I've left my testimony to him, however, so he can present that when its his turn.
<joejaxx> sabdfl: basically the idea behind fluxbuntu is it is supposed to be able to run on a vast amonut of computers
<joejaxx> sabdfl: it can run on a Pentium2 with 32MB
<joejaxx> that is the lowest we have tested it
<Seveas> zakame, noted. Thanks and goodnight!
<joejaxx> sabdfl: it allows people who cannot afford to get a Pentium4 to reuse their older computers
<joejaxx> sabdfl: for example schools, and other organizations
<LaserJock> I'd also like to note that joejaxx has recently been working with MOTU to get fluxbuntu packages into Universe
<zakame> Seveas: merci, good night all! :D
<juliux> joejaxx, why should they use fluxbuntu instead of xubuntu?
<joejaxx> juliux: xubuntu is lightweight in a since
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: joejaxx is there a way to get a fluxbuntu-desktop package instead of say seperate packages?
<joejaxx> juliux: but with fluxbuntu it is lighter runs on more computers it also has a strict diet of lightwight applications
<juliux> joejaxx, thxs
<joejaxx> juliux: you are most welcome
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: of course
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: yes
<juliux> joejaxx, i will test it if i found some old hardware at home;)
<gnomefreak> :)
<joejaxx> juliux: ;)
<sabdfl> joejaxx: i very much support your goals with fluxbuntu, +1 from me on the basis of commitment to join the MOTU team and get that into ubuntu through the MOTU
<sabdfl> joejaxx: any particular changes, other than selection of apps and window manager?
<joejaxx> sabdfl: well customization of fluxbox for the user
<joejaxx> sabdfl: fluxbox can be a pain to setup
<sabdfl> and you make it Just Work?
<joejaxx> also the menu updating works which is great
<joejaxx> sabdfl: we configure everything with fluxbox for the end user
<joejaxx> right now we are releasing developmental releases so we are still adding things
<sabdfl> does the user have to make any decisions, or is it a standard, good-by-default config?
<joejaxx> sabdfl: it is good by default
<joejaxx> sabdfl: some of the users are advance fluxbox users so they change things on there own though
<sabdfl> right
<joejaxx> sabdfl: we are also developing somthing called the Dashboard
<sabdfl> elmo, kamion?
* gnomefreak would maybe change the livecd boot up screen to use the fluxbuntu logo instead of ubuntu (just out of maybe a confused user)
<joejaxx> which is like a common control panel to configure fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: well the thing with that is
<joejaxx> i cannot set vga=785
<joejaxx> so when i install the custom usplash
<joejaxx> it comes up black on the livecd
<joejaxx> but works on the hdd install
<Kamion> you shouldn't have to - usplash uses svgalib, not the vesa framebuffer
<elmo> ack - but with the same basis of commitment to better integration with ubuntu as a whole
<joejaxx> so i left the usplash
<Kamion> at least in edgy
<joejaxx> Kamion: yes we are currently using dapper until edgy is finalized
<sabdfl> we *love* the new u-splash, it showed up for me on my laptop for the first time today
<Kamion> joejaxx: how much effort are you putting into mubuntu vs. fluxbuntu?
<joejaxx> Kamion: well with mubuntu
<Kamion> incidentally that's a really confusing name - we'd been talking about mubuntu as an embedded distro, and multimedia is just about the other end of the spectrum
<Kamion> (mu as in the Greek micro)
<joejaxx> i am helping MMA create the base system
<joejaxx> and also with the mubutnu-* meta package once we get the paackage list finalized for each
<_MMA_> Hi all. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mubuntu Post some ideas. ;)
<joejaxx> i am using my knowledge from my fluxbuntu development with the mubuntu
<joejaxx> Kamion: the funny thing is i was coming out with a "mubuntu" (multimedia) and i joined the canonical mubuntu project afeter i found out one was being created
<joejaxx> so i am helping that project instead
<joejaxx> mubuntu that is
<joejaxx> the canonical one
<Kamion> ok, just try not to get involved in so many pies that you can't do a good job on all of them ...
<gnomefreak> i would think alot of legal issues would go along with mubuntu
<Kamion> that would be my main concern, since they seem like very different projects
<Kamion> but aside from that, and with the note raised by sabdfl and elmo that we'd like to get your fluxbox work integrated better, +1
<_MMA_> I would love to get with others to pull our ideas together. Right now the plan if for me to go to the UDS Mountain View. I would love to talk with anyone there.
<sabdfl> welcome aboard, joejaxx
<dolson> congrats joejaxx 
<matid> Congrats, joejaxx
<joejaxx> sabdfl: dolson thanks
<gnomefreak> congrats joejaxx 
<Seveas> congratulations!
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: thank you
<lophyte> congrats joejaxx
<joejaxx> Seveas: lophyte :)
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: yw
<joejaxx> Seveas: lophyte thanks
<Seveas> Andrew Hodgkinson?
<sabdfl> who's up next?
<ahod__> I'll go.
<ahod__> Hi.  I'm a senior software engineer and have worked for Novell for the past 11 years. For most of that time, my efforts have been focused on developing and supporting the FLAIM database technology.  FLAIM is used in projects such as iFolder, Hula, CASA, and Novell's eDirectory (closed source).
<nalioth> w00t joejaxx !
<ahod__>  I recently created a native Ubuntu package for FLAIM and would like to see it kept up-to-date in Ubuntu Universe.  My purpose in joining the community is to volunteer to maintain the native Ubuntu package for FLAIM.  More info can be found at my wiki site http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewHodgkinson.  My launchpad info can be found at https://launchpad.net/people/ahodgkinson.
<Kamion> it would be great to have somebody actively maintaining flaim, ifolder, et al; Mez packaged libflaim ages ago, and it's in universe, but it hasn't been maintained
<Kamion> do you think you can take on any of the other flaim-using projects you mentioned?
<ahod__> I know.  We (the FLAIM maintainers) have made a lot of changes and improvements since then.
<sabdfl> xflaim in particular looks interesting
<ahod__> I have helped with iFolder on a limited basis, but wouldn't mind doing more.
<ahod__> We just added c# and java bindings to xflaim.
<sabdfl> ahod__: have you spent any time with the MOTU?
<sabdfl> they would be good to help i.t.o. packaging etc, which is quite different to the rpm world as you know
<whiprush> hi guys
<ahod__> No a lot up to this point.  I have submitted FLAIM and XFLAIM to the REVU site.
<sabdfl> out of curiosity, are the MOTU good about getting back to folks who submit stuff to REVU?
<ahod__> We have .deb packages available for FLAIM and XFLAIM.
<sabdfl> as part of your upstream build and publish process?
<ahod__> sabdfl:  No, they aren't.
<slomo> ahod__: for c# stuff you might want to join the mono team :) more members would be always good, especially someone caring about ifolder,etc
<sabdfl> not good at getting back? or not part of the build process?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ahod__> Yes.  We build .deb packages as part of our standard build process.
<sabdfl> ah, ok
<ahod__> Not good at getting back.
<sabdfl> dholbach: can you put REVU and MOTU onto the agenda for UDS Mountain View please? we should straighten that out
<dholbach> sabdfl: Yeah, I'll take care of that.
<LaserJock> heh
<sabdfl> i'm very intrigued and would like to have you involved but normally would have more behind someone before +1 on membership
<sabdfl> i think we need to hook you up with dholbach for some quality motu time, get the packages in, and then +1 on membership and motu simultaneously
<Seveas> sounds sane
<ahod__> ok
<sabdfl> ahod__: do you think your flaim packages are edgy material?
<Kamion> I'd have been inclined to say +1 on the basis that getting knowledgeable upstreams involved is always a good thing, but if it doesn't slow down Andrew's MOTU acceptance, then that's fine too
<Kamion> consider me on the record as +1 for later
<ahod__> They have been well tested.  I think that they should be included in Edgy so that they are available to support iFolder, etc.
<sabdfl> dholbach: could you put ahod__ in touch with a very good motu for now, to get flaim and others into shape for edgy, then follow up with him yourself after the release to see how it's gone?
<Kamion> dholbach or one of the other MOTUs would need to ack a universe freeze exception, but given that flaim has been languishing it sounds a worthwhile one to me
<dholbach> sabdfl: I'm happy to do that
<dholbach> Kamion: yeah, I agree :)
<whiprush> ahod__: I've been waiting for a flaim/ifolder person for a year, I'd like to help also.
<ahod__> whiprush:  That would be great.
<sabdfl> can't do better than whiprush :-)
<sabdfl> ahod__: holler in my direction (mark@ubuntu.com) if there are glitches in getting your latest stuff into edgy, i'll iron out any wrinkles
<sabdfl> then after that i would also +1 membership
<ahod__> ok.  If anyone has more questions, feel free to send me an e-mail (ahodgkinson@novell.com)
<Seveas> ok, matid: you're up next
<matid> Ok
<matid> Hello. My name is Mateusz Drozdzynski (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MateuszDrozdzynski and http://launchpad.net/people/matid). I'm very passionate about OSS, I've been using Linux for about 6 years now and I doubt I could ever turn away from it.
<Seveas> (ahod__ welcome to Ubuntu, I'd love to see you as member in the future)
<matid> I'm an Ubuntu user since Warty and I've been testing the development releases since Hoary. I'm encouraging all of my friends to use Ubuntu and I provide them with free, life-time, round-a-clock support.
<matid> I'm involved in the bug triage as a member of the Bug Squad, Ubuntu Desktop Bugs and Ubuntu QA Team. I'm also willing to help out with the packaging and I'd like to become a MOTU in the future.
<matid> I've joined Telepathy team make sure Telepathy will rock in Edgy+1 by contributing my bug triage abilities together with some coding and packaging.
<matid> Together with Polish Linux Users Group, which I'm a member of, we organized an event promoting the Linux amongst windows users called "Poznaj Linuksa". I'd like to start coordinating out efforts to promote Linux between PLUG and Ubuntu LoCo teams.
<matid> One of my current plans is to create localized Quality Assurance teams to form a bridge between Ubuntu developers and users who can't file bugs in English.
<matid> You can read more on my wiki page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MateuszDrozdzynski
<matid> I've also brought some fellow BugSquad, Desktop Bugs and QA members: Daniel Holbach (dholbach), Simon Law (sfllaw), Sebastien Bacher (seb128), John Vivirito  (gnomefreak) and Richard Johnson  (nixternal). I hope they can say something positive about me ;)
<matid> Sorry for such a long intro ;)
<Seveas> localized QA ftw!
<gnomefreak> he has done alot of bug work. i have seen his name for a whjile just never knew who he was until 3 days ago 
<seb128> matid has been doing some good bug triage work and is playing with telepathy packages which is nice too
<gnomefreak> s/whjile/while
<dholbach> Yeah, I'm happy with his triage efforts too and am glad he became member of the telepathy team some days ago
<dholbach> ahod__: I sent you a private message - hope that's ok
<sfllaw> I'm very pleased with matid's work.
* Seveas too
<Seveas> more triagers on the block is a good idea
<Seveas> and he's serious about it
<sabdfl> very nice to see the bug karma there matid
<matid> Seveas: Thanks
<matid> sabdfl: Thanks
<sabdfl> matid: how long have you been active on the bug squad?
<matid> And thanks for all my fellow QA members ;)
<matid> sabdfl: About two months right now
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on the back of ongoing bug triage over the course of 2 months
<Seveas> elmo, Kamion ?
<matid> I'm currently spending ab. 1/2 of my free time to contribute to Ubuntu
<matid> And I'm really serious about the localized QA teams
<Kamion> well, I did have to tell Mateusz off a while back for rejecting one of my bugs when he shouldn't, but that happens to a fair few people :)
<Kamion> and that *was* a while backk
<matid> I have many friends who would likely file many bugs but they can't do it since the language barrier
<Kamion> +1 for sustained bugsquad work and helping out with telepathy
<matid> Kamion: Sorry about that :)
<Kamion> it happens :)
<sabdfl> matid: how do we get more people to help out on the LP support tracker? i see you've helped solve someone's issue there too
<Seveas> Kamion, tbh, ubiquity is one of the hardest-to-triage packages ;)
<sabdfl> Kamion: that's because your software has such subtle bugs :-)
* dholbach hugs matid
* matid hugs dholbach back
<matid> sabdfl: Hmm...
<gnomefreak> there are only like 6 support requests open atm
<matid> sabdfl: I think it should be easier to file support request from the Ubuntu itself, we lack an application to do it
<matid> sabdfl: And localizing the support tracker would help a lot too
<matid> sabdfl: I'm still pointing the same issue out, but I think that's crucial to have Launchpad translated.
<sabdfl> the "Get help online..." links should take people more directly there
<Kamion> Seveas: yeah, I've been trying to improve that ... problem with the installer is that you have to live with last release's bugs for a long time
<matid> It should be given a higher priority
<sabdfl> matid: we definitely plan to make the support tracker multilingual, more so than the rest of LP
<sabdfl> flacoste is working on that, chat to him on #launchpad if you're interested and have ideas
<sabdfl> not sure we want to encourage multilingual bug reports though
<sabdfl> :-)
<sabdfl> did elmo ack?
<matid> sabdfl: About this 'Get help online...', I think that's a good idea. It should help the support tracker become a default way of handling support requests
<Seveas> sabdfl, not yet
<matid> sabdfl: We should at least have some teams to help non-English users file the bugs
<Seveas> whilst waiting for elmo should we continue with the next candidate?
<elmo> please carry on, I'm on the phone
<Seveas> ok
<elmo> will catach up ASAP
<Seveas> kristog is up next
<matid> Ok
<kristog> hello, i'm Riccardo Setti, i live in Milano (Italy), and i'm a high school student. In my spare time i help Debian and since may
<kristog> i'm an official Debian developer (you can find more information about my Debian work
<kristog> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=riccardo+Setti&comaint=yes).
<kristog> I joined the Ubuntu community one year ago, in this period i was not really active, i started to do real work for Ubuntu
<kristog> when dholbach started the telepathy team.
<kristog> My (directly) contributions to Ubuntu are some telepathy packages, (in fact this is a team, i cannot say wich package is "mine" and wich
<kristog> not ;) ) we work close with upstream to do our best to provide a good support for it in Ubuntu,
<kristog> i joined the galago team and the qa team .
<kristog> My future work will be integrate as much as I can telepathy galago and tapioca in Ubuntu (IM, desktop presence, voip framework), start
<kristog> maintain some Desktop apps like gnome-power-manager, network-manager, and..who will know this?
<Seveas> dholbach, any comments on the telepathy effort?
<dholbach> kristog ROCKs and was a huge asset in the telepathy team - we talked a year ago about galago packages already and it was great to collaborate with him
<Seveas> wow
<dholbach> he's a nice a guy, friendly, helped other people to do packaging - I'm *very happy* with him
<seb128> kristog does a really good job
<dholbach> his packaging skills are good, he's good to talk to people (upstream, users, fellow package maintainers), maintains an overview and is easy to work with
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Telepathy/Modules for his work in telepathy
<seb128> and he seems to be wanting to help on gnome-power-manager bugs, which is really welcome
<slomo> i can completely agree to daniel here... i already worked with him in Debian before and it was nice to work with him there and in Ubuntu, he has very good packaging knowledge, etc
<Seveas> sabdfl, Kamion ?
<sabdfl> kristog: do you have an ubuntu wiki or LP data to point to?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/giskard
<kristog> sabdfl: LP: https://launchpad.net/people/giskard
<elmo> (ack for matid)
<Seveas> elmo, thanks, matid: welcome!
<gnomefreak> congrats matid 
<kristog> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RiccardoSetti 
<matid> Thanks everyone!
<Seveas> (sabdfl: member candidate wikipages are linked from the CC agenda)
* matid hugs everyone
<sabdfl> ok, +1 for kristog from me on the back of seb128 and dholbach's recommendations
<sabdfl> welcome, matid
<kristog> sabdfl: thank you :)
<matid> sabdfl: Thanks
<slomo> also it would probably be really good to have him caring about n-m i guess as nobody does yet and it could really need some work and i would be fine sponsoring his work for main :)
<Kamion> I'm happy with kristog on the basis of recommendations, Debian work, and oh god please somebody look after n-m
<sabdfl> n-m?
<Kamion> network-manager
<Seveas> network-manager
<sabdfl> YES!
<Seveas> ok, so that's +2 from sabdfl ;)
<sabdfl> my rarely-used casting vote :-)
<sabdfl> elmo?
<kristog> ahhaha
<elmo> ack
<kristog> thank you elmo
<Seveas> welcome aboard kristog !
<kristog> thank you everyone :)
<Seveas> now make n-m rock kthxbye ;)
<slomo> congrats kristog :)
<sabdfl> kristog: have you applied to join the ubuntumembers team in LP?
<Seveas> next up is keescook 
<dholbach> congratulations kristog - great to have you here!
<keescook> Hello!  I'm Kees Cook (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeesCook and https://launchpad.net/people/keescook).  I've been using Ubuntu since Hoary (and switched most of the OSDL infrastructure to it from Redhat).  I've gotten involved in bug triage and packaging, and I now work with pitti on the Ubuntu Security Team, where I have been helping release security updates since August (sendmail, krb5, clamav, coreutils, gdb, and more on the way).  I want to see U
<keescook> I asked pitti, zakame, and crimsun to say good things about me.  If I smile real nice, I'm hoping other will too.  :)
<keescook> Here's what zakame asked me to pass on before he left:
<keescook> <zakame> "I've been observing Kees' work on resolving bugs in Malone, and I believe he's doing great work in making Ubuntu better; furthermore, I have worked with him as my mentor closely during my stint on the Google Summer of Code to great success: I have learned a lot of new stuff thanks to him and his project Sendpage, and hence I totally believe that he will be a valuable Ubuntu member."
<seb128> dholbach: congrat
<seb128> ups
<seb128> kristog: congrat
<kristog> sabdfl: no, ATM i was busy with telepathy and ohters thig :)
<kristog> seb128: thank you :)
<matid> seb128: ;)
<dholbach> seb128: thanks for congratulating me for another good desktop / telepathy members - congrats to you too! ;-)
* dholbach hugs seb128
<sabdfl> kristog: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join then ping me
<pitti> I have worked with kees for a fair while now; he's marvellous at all kinds of security related stuff, a quick learner wrt. packaging issues, dived into bug triaging as well as new packaging, etc.
* kristog hugs seb128 dholbach slomo 
<pitti> kristog: welcome!
<sabdfl> keescook: methinks we need package upload karma to do you justice
<sabdfl> (and all the other dev's)
<Seveas> pitti, so you're *finally* no longer almost on your own wrt security? 
<keescook> sabdfl: yeah.  :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, indeed
<pitti> Seveas: indeed, and I can't tell you how grateful I am :)
<pitti> sabdfl: yeah, I want upload karma for langpacks :)
<sabdfl> how many USN's can we attribute to keescook to date?
<sabdfl> pitti: ...with a pony, no doubt
<pitti> one officially released one, and about 5 that are in the works
<dholbach> Although I didn't work too closely with Kees yet, I saw he started triaging bugs in no time, changed wiki pages, etc - he really takes things really seriously. :)
<keescook> 2, I think.  krb5, gdb.
<pitti> ah, right, krb5, too; sorry
<keescook> dholbach: got you your QA emblem too.  ;)
<pitti> he's curious to understand everything in the Ubuntu community and has good ideas, too
<dholbach> hehe, yeah right - his artistic skills are marveloous :)
* zul looks forward to eventually being bugged by keescook :)
<keescook> woohoo someone thinks I can draw!  (the inkscape guys will not agree)
<sabdfl> i know you'll make a substantial contribution very quickly, but for membership we usually look for a couple months contribution
<sabdfl> is it pedantic to hold off a month or so?
<keescook> sabdfl: sure, I kept that in mind.  I was hoping my krb5 (aug) would count.
<keescook> but I'm happy to wait if that's needed.
<elmo> sabdfl: we've waived the requirement in the past for Canonical people
<Seveas> sabdfl, other canonical employees (eg jono) were accepted given that being employed by canonical almost ensures a continued contribution
<elmo> sabdfl: on the assumption that they're contract will guarantee the couple of months of contribution
<elmo> s/they're/their/
<sabdfl> elmo: and this is for distro team folks, i assume?
<sabdfl> as opposed to dodgy suits?
* pitti thinks it won't be easy to stop keescook now :)
<elmo> sabdfl: distro + community so far, yeah
<Kamion> we generally can't assume that non-distro-team employees will continue to contribute to Ubuntu directly
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me since I know kees will make a great contribution and is already full time
<Kamion> I'm entirely happy with keescook for membership
<elmo> Kamion: I don't think we've had any non-distro people apply
<Kamion> for all the completely obvious reasons
<elmo> have we?
<sabdfl> sigh
<Seveas> elmo, not that I know of
<Kamion> elmo: Etienne Goyer did, I think? Robert Collins?
<elmo> anyway, ack for me keescook from me too, as a no brainer
<elmo> Kamion: ah, I guess so
<sabdfl> he most definitely has some brains
<Kamion> I think there've been others
<sabdfl> welcome aboard, kees, are you in the LP queue?
<keescook> yay!  thanks everyone.  :)
<Seveas> kees, welcome aboard!
<sabdfl> got it
<pitti> keescook: \o/ welcome
<keescook> sabdfl: LP ubuntu-members queue?  yup, should be.
<sabdfl> approved
<Seveas> We're at the end of the list, I just want to know whether the council already decided about Rolando Blanco
<sabdfl> is that it? any latecomers?
<nixternal> i will go again, the first time was so much fun ;)
<Kamion> I don't think there's been anything by mail about Rolando, unless I missed it?
<lophyte> haha
<lophyte> nice, nixternal :P
<Seveas> Kamion, I sent it yesterday
<Kamion> oh yes
<sabdfl> got it
<Kamion> there've been no followups yet I'm afraid
<Seveas> ok, then I'll leave him on the agenda for now. I'd appreciate it to hear a decision at the next meeting
<sabdfl> +1 from me for rolando on the back of the .ve loco team
<Seveas> (or now, thanks sabdfl ;))
<sabdfl> OK!
<sabdfl> well done, and thanks everybody (Seveas for steering, mako, elmo, kamion for listening)
<sabdfl> any other business?
<Seveas> datetime of next meeting
<sabdfl> i've been poor about attendance, and i see some items are pending me on the agenda
<Kamion> just read through the mails, I'm OK with Rolando as well
<Seveas> Kamion, great!
<Seveas> sabdfl, maybe it's better if we speak about that in person at UDS, I forgot to bring it up in Brussels
<sabdfl> have things settled on freenode after the sad death of lilo?
<Seveas> sabdfl, not sure, will ask the freenode staff
<keescook> if only there was SSL on freenode...
<sabdfl> ok, will we have the whole CC at UDS?
<Kamion> assuming I can actually manage to get in touch with the US embassy about that, er, little visa waiver matter
<sabdfl> Kamion: you and me both :-)
<sabdfl> mako?
* sivang wonders which event took place in Brussels
<Seveas> EuroOscon
<Kamion> sabdfl: oh, did you see my mail to community-council@ saying that I'd like to retire from the CC and let others have a turn?
<sivang> Seveas: oh :)
<sabdfl> i'll definitely mail mako re sponsorship if he's available and not already on the list
<sabdfl> Kamion: yes, wanted to discuss succession recommendations!
<Seveas> elmo, if you'd be so kind as to vote for/against Rolando Blanco, I can remove him from the agenda
<elmo> Seveas: ack
<sabdfl> Kamion: thank you for an outstanding contribution setting the standard for future CC members
<Seveas> elmo, great, thanks a lot!
<Seveas> Kamion, indeed, thanks a lot!
<Kamion> it's been a fun ride, but my family have been complaining about all the late-night meetings for some time ;-)
<Kamion> if we want to talk about succession at UDS, that could be doable
* Seveas has to go now - please decide on a datetime for next meeting today, see you all next time
<jenda> Will we still talk a bit about the IRC problem when this is finished?
<jenda> aha, right.
* robitaille will have to start reserving 4-hour  slots for future CC meeting on the Fridge calendar :)
<elmo> hey, I'm stuck at the office without food - this isn't fun for me either :-P
<sabdfl> elmo: indian?
<elmo> sabdfl: they only deliver for you
<sabdfl> i could deliver for you
<juliux> if you are in germany in the next months take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConferenceAppearances we are happy if somebody can join us at one of this expos ;)
<elmo> sabdfl: haha, thanks, but it's OK, I'll just run away home, if we're done here
<sabdfl> we're done. next datetime?
<sabdfl> 17th?
<Kamion> yes - 1200 UTC maybe?
<elmo> works for me
<sharms> I was wondering if anyone knows who made those ubuntu t-shirts printed on ubutnu brown?
<sabdfl> tollef, iirc
<sabdfl> is 12:00 UTC still 13:00 BST then?
<mc44> sabdfl, yes
<mc44> until 29th
<matid> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=17&year=2006&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<matid> ;)
<sabdfl> ok see you folks then - i'll update the page
<Kamion> sabdfl: thanks
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> night all!
<matid> Good night!
<juliux> gn8 
<kristog> night
<zenwhen> hey
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-04
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 17:00: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<RichEd> hello ... coffee ... back in a flash
<ogra> meep
<ogra> do we have quorum for EC ?
<ogra> (doesnt look like)
<highvoltage> moop
* ogra counts two EC members 
<ogra> one more and we can make decisions :)
* ogra waits for others to show up ...
<cbx33> awww....heheh
<highvoltage> jsgotango is having connectivity problems after their bad weather
<highvoltage> and LaserJock is probably sleeping?
<ogra> right
* cbx33 makes himself honerary EC member ;)
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> damn it I can't even spell
<rodarvus> >:-)
<ogra> sad, it would be nice if we could approve sbalneav ... 
<ogra> and willvdl 
<highvoltage> rodarvus: cool hair
<rodarvus> ogra: I'll approve sbalneav and willvdl, let me just hack your LP account
<ogra> but they both havent added themselves to the agenda anyway
<highvoltage> :(
<willvdl> true.
<rodarvus> highvoltage, those are not hair but evil wings ;)
<highvoltage> I wish they would
<rodarvus> argh, not wings, horns
<highvoltage> rodarvus: they look cool nontheless :)
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> and RichEd is also outstanding ...
<highvoltage> sbalneav is probably also sleeping, so it would probably suite him better to go for membership at the 20:00 meeting.
<ogra> well, jammcq just showed up in #ltsp 
<rodarvus> JaneW once mentioned passing her EC membership to RichEd, do we have any news on this subject?
<ogra> migth be sbalneav shows up during the meeting, they share the same TZ
<rodarvus> (or if something like this is going to happen any time in the future)
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> rodarvus, thast something the EC should vote on ... and RichEd needs to be member first
<RichEd> rodarvus: I'm applying through the normal channels ... don't want to do any family pass the baton ...
<ogra> i'm not opposed to you taking that over, but we need an EC vote for it i assume
<ogra> and indeed membership is a requirement
* sivang is here as an observer
<rodarvus> RichEd, the fact that you two are on the same family is not relevant to what I'm saying, actually. I'm mentioning you because you are Education Manager at Canonical, and thus, on a position where you spend 100% of your work time on related subjects
<ogra> right
<RichEd> yes ... but to avoid any "favouritism becuase he is sleeping with the other communtiy member" I'd rather apply normally and disjointed from JaneW
<willvdl> and me because I'm special
<highvoltage> lol
<rodarvus> but of course, I don't want it to be --forced, I'd like to see this voted through EC
<highvoltage> (sorry)
<ogra> haha
<willvdl> and bigger than you
<RichEd> I'll call JaneW now to see what her thoughts are on keeping or resigning ... will let you know ...
<highvoltage> rodarvus, RichEd: rest assured, we will do everything properly, I think it's only natural for RichEd to be EC, but we will follow the proper procedures to make sure it happenens properly
<ogra> to sad she cant come ... we'd have quorum then ;)
<RichEd> Let's postpone the EC until the top of the hour and see if we have any sign of LaserJock or others.
<rodarvus> highvoltage, exactly
<highvoltage> the problem is that JaneW can't make the meeting anymore because of her new job, and making the meetings is a bit of a requirement, no?
<ogra> right
<rodarvus> I don't expect LaserJock to come, I think his timezone is UTC-7 or such
<highvoltage> ogra: could she vote by e-mail?
<ogra> sure
<RichEd> Can someone give me a web service irc link and I can get her to try that now ?
<ogra> we could do a pre-votin now
<rodarvus> (aka, about 5:14 AM there ;) )
<Fujitsu> rodarvus, yeah, about that, he's well and truly asleep :)
<ogra> RichEd --> cbx33 should be able
<ogra> rodarvus, thast why we have 5 members ;)
<willvdl> I've been looking into that with no luck
<cbx33> willvdl what was that one you found yesterday
<cbx33> sorry monday
<willvdl> freenode seems to ban the public cgi:irc channels so you need your own server
<willvdl> cbx33, they didn't work.
<cbx33> unfortunately the person who I use this one from would repfer if I didn;t tell anyone the address, they have limited server bandwidth
<cbx33> I used to have my own but my new server company dissallows it
<cbx33> is there any possibility of getting one set up
<RichEd> okay ... let me call JaneW and see if she can respond to an email voting request ...
<RichEd> ogra: do you want to do tech in the meanwhile ?
<willvdl> want to try ssh port forwarding
<ogra> right
<ogra> there is not much on the plate for tech
<cbx33> willvdl: that's against TOS here :(
* highvoltage organises a cgi irc service quickly
<ogra> beta is out ... i sent testing procedures to -devel for it 
<cbx33> highvoltage: you rock
<rodarvus> willvdl, ask elmo to see if he can setup cgi:irc for you (maybe on a temporary fashion)
<ogra> i have some outstanding issues on my plate:
* rodarvus raises his hand to talk after ogra
<ogra> ldm switches to console before switching to X ... thats a moinor uglyness i have a patch for already
<willvdl> brill. HP needs it internally
<ogra> the installer was set to always set edubuntu as hostname at one time, i want to revert it and make it a user choice, but Kamion asked me to first inspect why we did it first place ...
<ogra> thats on my todo (lots of log diggin)
<ogra> the german translation for the console mode in the installer defaults to "install a server" in the translation
<highvoltage> CGI-IRC for #ubuntu-meeting: http://duke.za.net/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi
<ogra> (which is totally wrong indeed)
* highvoltage tests
<ogra> apart from that a pessulus/SCP fix is waiting ...
<cbx33> pessulus is patched
<cbx33> SCP is waiting for you to patch with the line I gave you
<ogra> did you send me the SCP pastch already ?
* ogra look through mail
<cbx33> and we just need the gconf patch after that which seb128 is going to do
<cbx33> ogra: the tiny tiny one
<ogra> yes, i remember it ... must be in my mail somewhere
<ogra> i think thats it ...
<cbx33> ogra: ok I'll leave that one with you
<ogra> what i didnt test yet is upgradeability from dapper ... for ltsp
<cbx33> it's a /user/  -   /" + user + "/ replacement
<ogra> thats on my list for this weekend (have no dapper around currently)
<cbx33> soemthing like that
<cbx33> hmmm I have a dapper
<cbx33> want me to upgrade it at somepoint?
<ogra> would be cool to know if that works ...
<ogra> (without regenerating the chroot, but upgrading it)
<cbx33> ogra: so I upgrade one the nthe other?
<cbx33> want me to do it today or tomorrow?
<ogra> as you have time ... i just need to know about upgrade bugs before RC
<cbx33> well tomorrow will be better
<cbx33> as I said I'm off home soon
* rodarvus raises his hand t(different subject)
<rodarvus> argh
<ogra> apart from that, the kalzium issue seems gotten more quiet again ...
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> Riddell wanted to invite the kdeedu coordinator to MV
<ogra> so we can talk about such stuff in person there
<Riddell> I don't know if she can come, she's still investigating
<ogra> i think thats it from my side about tech ... 
<ogra> rodarvus, ?
<rodarvus> What I'm going to talk is not news, but its important we all are fully aware of this as soon as possible.
<rodarvus> Next month we'll be holding the next Ubuntu Developers Summit, on Mountain View.
<rodarvus> I'd like to ask *everyone* to take some moments/hours to think about the features they like to see worked on during edgy+1 development cycle, and add them to the spec list for discussion. (here -> https://features.launchpad.net/)
<rodarvus> *NOW*  is the right time to start writing down the features you'd like to see implemented. Please plan how much time you'll be able to donate to Edubuntu for the next development cycle, and plan what you'll be doing accordingly. If you need any help with that, please do not hesitate contacting us on #edubuntu.
<rodarvus> Finally, when adding new specifications to features.launchpad.net, don't forget marking it for discussion on 'UDS Mountain View', so it gets a chance at being discussed there.
<rodarvus> :)
* rodarvus was holding the enter key for a few minutes ;)
<cbx33> heheheh
<ogra> right 
<ogra> i can give a shoprt list for edubuntu/ltsp stuff i plan
<ogra> - ldap/kerberos server 
<ogra> - CD writing on clients
<rodarvus> *cough* avahi *chough*
<ogra> - mic input and volume control on clients
<RichEd> JaneW is trying the web 'face and if not, will vote via email.
<ogra> - more output in the ltsp installer part
<sivang> ogra: that mesan libburn first :-)
<ogra> thats what i'm planning
<sivang> *means
<ogra> sivang, right ...
<ogra> thats why i hope pygi can come to MV
<rodarvus> would you like to consider moving Edubuntu installation to the Live CD? (I mean, at least have a session on this subject at MV)
<cbx33> pygi isn't here at the moment and won't be for a while will he
<cbx33> he's without net for like 2 months
<ogra> but i didnt hear back yet about sopnsorships and who has his invitation mails ...
<sivang> cbx33: he said he'll be checking emails
<cbx33> ah ok
<sivang> ogra: I hope we can do some libburn specification from remote
<ogra> (and that rather belongs to the community topic
<rodarvus> ogra, I'd like to have a session on this subject, and also (with you and RichEd, if he confirms his tickets for UDS) about the "extra cd on top of ubuntu" idea
<ogra> sivang, pygi was suggested for sponsoring, but i havent heard back yet ...
<ogra> rodarvus, right
<highvoltage> yay
* highvoltage hugs JaneW 
<ogra> JaneW, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<cbx33> ogra: mails for sponsorship have gone out
<cbx33> JaneW: 
* ogra hugs JaneW 
* cbx33 gives JaneW a big hug
<rodarvus> hi JaneW!
* RichEd hugs janeW
<sivang> ogra: ah I see, so I guess he will be there if he realizes he got the email
<cbx33> sivang: heheh
<sivang> I suggest someone calling him if has his phone number
<cbx33> oooh i have his phone
<cbx33> I'll just txt him
<RichEd> rodarvus: I'm in ... we need to chat to Matt as well ... Mark was not opposed to the idea (yesterday) but wants to make sure that our upstream is happy with the concept.
<sivang> cbx33: thank you :)
<rodarvus> nice!
<sivang> RichEd: is this about libburn ?
<ogra> rodarvus, i'll only vote for it if i dont have to do additional 48h shifts for testing
<RichEd> sivang: nope about "seeing Edubuntu as an add-on pack install on top of a standard Ubuntu install base"
<sivang> RichEd: ah, I see. sorry for getting into the discussion then, opps :-/
<ogra> it will require us to start testing of milestones a week before instead of two / three days (and nights)
<rodarvus> ogra, yes, thats why it needs discussion. Overloading you is *really* not on the plans :)
* cbx33 is up for testing 
<ogra> RichEd, eeek
<RichEd> note the "apostrophes" this is just a suggestion and we need to assess impact !
<ogra> RichEd, that wont work, we need the install CD in any case
<ogra> since we do some special stuff with the installer
<ogra> but i'm not opposed to a second CD 
<ogra> if i'm not the only one who is qable to build/change and test it
<RichEd> yes ... there would still be a single CD edition of Edubuntu ... with the Ubuntu base and Edubuntu add-on pack shipping as an easy install
<ogra> right
<ogra> and a add on CD ... for extra SW
<willvdl> I don't get it. a one CD and a two CD version?
<cbx33> yup
<ogra> i'm not sure d-i is intelligent enough to work with only one CD then 
<ogra> afaik you cant force any packages onto one of the CDs
<ogra> so it will ask for the second CD if a package isnt on the first
<ogra> which could break installs if you dont have the second one
<cbx33> hmmm
<RichEd> willvdl: conceptually - Edubuntu Desktop Edition = ubuntu base install package + edubuntu desktop add-on
<ogra> but Kamion is surely the better guy to explain the capabilities
<RichEd> willvdl: conceptually - Edubuntu Server Edition = ubuntu base install package + edubuntu LTSP add-on
<ogra> well, no need to split server/desktop
<ogra> the server parts are minor (space wise)
<RichEd> For space ? Otherwise we are back to the 1CD problem ?
<highvoltage> you would be able to fit on a lot of edubuntu on one cd, if edubuntu itself was an add-on to Ubuntu. the problem is that you loose the turn-key factor :/
<ogra> i'd rather say base CD for server/workstation install (as we have it now) and add on CD for additional software
<RichEd> That's why we are saying that there should still be the turnkey "Edubuntu product CD"
* highvoltage nods
<ogra> right
<ogra> but please dont make two installer CDs
<ogra> thast not doable from a tester perspective
<RichEd> But conceptually, to separate them. also in the mind of the user ... so that there is an undertsnading that we have an ubuntu base.
<RichEd> *understanding
<rodarvus> lets discuss this outside the meeting, please :)
<ogra> the CD as we have it now is fine ... lets just move some parts over to the second one in favor of language packs on the first CD
<ogra> right
<ogra> RichEd, i dont think there is do8ubt of our ubuntu base on the user side
<RichEd> rodarvus: fine ... just allaying fears of any attempt to force a decision ... we are raising a topic, not making a change.
<rodarvus> RichEd, exactly
<rodarvus> well said
<ogra> but dont raise the requirement of manpower for the first CD please ...
<ogra> add-on is fine
<willvdl> on the subject of language packs, do we officially support mozilla (firefox) language packs?
<ogra> ok, tech done ?
<RichEd> ogra: all your concerns will be on the table :) that's why we have & respect your expertise :)
<highvoltage> ogra: one thing on tech
<ogra> willvdl, they are required by the langpacks, yes
<willvdl> and locale switching?
<highvoltage> I wanted to bring this up last time, but ran out of time
<ogra> willvdl, thats why i vote for xulrunner inclusion since dapper
<ogra> highvoltage, shoot
<highvoltage> ogra: for testing, what can we do to take load off of you?
<highvoltage> I'm having trouble testing myself because of lack of bandwidth, but there are many people out there that are willing to test.
<ogra> highvoltage, be aware of the release schedule, have spare HW to test 
<cgi_voltage> (test)
<ogra> and keep your isos up to date (rsync daily with a cron script)
<ogra> two or three days before a scheduled milestone start testing and report bugs
<ogra> thats simply it ...
<highvoltage> ok, so we'll work around milestones?
<ogra> pips1 was a big help for beta ... 
<highvoltage> ok, np. great.
<highvoltage> JaneW_: ping
<ogra> highvoltage, well, milestones, beta and RC ... as well as the final release
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx33> I'll test the dapper -> edgy upgrade
<ogra> (everything that talks about CD in the release schedule is valiud)
<ogra> and testing the final Cd needs indeed the most effort
<ogra> (i usually test everything twice there at least)
<highvoltage> ok, it seems like October 18/19 will be critical times for testing. we can work around that then.
<ogra> great
<ogra> that would be a major help
* cbx33 will do my usualy all night install test ;)
<ogra> rodarvus, it would also be nice if you were able to do CD builds etc in an emergency (i.e. i get hit by the potential bus) we should see that we get you up to speed for edgy+1 on that
<rodarvus> ogra, yes, I'd like to be up to date on this
<ogra> :)
<rodarvus> actually I planned to spend some hours learning how to do that on Wiesbaden, but due to, hmm, some circunstances, I was unable :)
<ogra> lets do it in MV then :)
<ogra> its easy ...
<rodarvus> yay!
<ogra> ouch ... evil JaneW ... already approved RichEd 
<rodarvus> I'd like to do one or two milestone cds for edubuntu on edgy+1 too
<ogra> :)
<rodarvus> (when the new name is going to be public? :D )
<ogra> rodarvus, that'd be really cool, seems i'll be travelling a lot next release
<rodarvus> *nod*
* RichEd has signed code of conduct, applied for membership, created a wiki page with contributions
<rodarvus> anyhow, were are we on the meeting, I'm lost?
* RichEd is now retroactively adding himself to the agenda
<ogra> documentation :
<ogra> anyone up for some doc talk ?
<cbx33> I've done SCP docs
<cbx33> will put them up on the wi8ki
<ogra> cool !
<RichEd> this section is now : documentation techical :)
<ogra> we should have a help button in edgy+1 ;)
<ogra> and yelped docs ....
<ogra> for now wiki will do (unless half done docs get synced to help.ubuntu.com again like the ltsp multiarch one)
<ogra> RichEd, we'll do EC at the end (usually)
<RichEd> ogra : great :) tx
<ogra> anything else for docs ?
<ogra> tech docs, sorry :)
<RichEd> ogra: perhaps explain about LTSP and sbalneaves helping us out there ? just to get the group informed ?
* ogra copy pastes
<ogra> <ogra> sbalneav is working on that
<ogra> <ogra> ltsp.org will also soon have our docs
<ogra> <ogra> and we'll have theirs 
<ogra> <ogra> he's merging them
<ogra> as you probablky might have seen in the beta announcement, we're allowed to call our ltsp the ltsp 5 prerelease in edgy ;)
<RichEd> So we'll have the best LTSP documentation, direct from the source :)
<ogra> jammcq explicitly approved that 
<ogra> right
<RichEd> We'll make sure that it is in form that can be integrated into the cookbook / handbook.
<ogra> good
<RichEd> Speaking of which, Hedgemage has given me pre-warning that her days as a Cookbook leader are numbered.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> will she vaniush completely ?
<RichEd> She feels it is time to pass the baton to fresh blood, and she wants to move back into more dev work. 
<ogra> she wanted to move on to development once she drops docs she said ...
<ogra> YAY !
<RichEd> She will still be a strong Edubuntu community member, just wants to change her badge.
* ogra is looking forward to that
<ogra> yep, she talked about it before
<RichEd> (She is also helping pips1 and myself with drupal skills for the "education user community space")
<ogra> but with pygi moving on to more ltsp stuff and her moving on to development in general out doc team is quite dead
<ogra> we'll need fresh blood
<cbx33> right I'm off see ya later guys
<RichEd> So we have a general call for anyone who feels inspired to get invovled with documentation !
<ogra> probably a point we should raise with the k21 guys
<ogra> *k12
<RichEd> We can send a mail to the list, and post an announcement, and make use oour blogging people to put the word out.
<highvoltage> Nuffing: ping
<ogra> (sorry there is a drill rumbling near my left ear, my concentration is dropping a bit)
<willvdl> I'm keen to look into docs but will need to brush up some skills
<RichEd> *of our
<RichEd> Can I suggest then Will that you offer to be the Doc team Project Manager ? and then we look for people to assist ?
<highvoltage> Nuffing: if you can read this, but can't reply, please stand by, we might have to accept your answer via e-mail
<willvdl> RichEd, I'll need to spend some time on the process and platform but I could I suppose
<RichEd> It will be a big help if we have one head (brain) looking at all documentation ... with the handbook being a sub-section. We can then get a clearer view and cohesive material.
<RichEd> i.e. across web, & print, and handbook ...etc.
<rodarvus> RichEd, willvdl: that would be *great*!
<RichEd> Note that for web, pips1 and I would do the majority of the work, it would require Will to manage the cohesion, not put in the edit time.
<ogra> from JaneW by mail: Sorry I 'approved' RichEd's member status with a proviso note saying pending EC majority vote. It was the only way I could see to show my vote without having IRC access. I can not connect properly but seem to be getting 20 lines of text retrospectively and then disconnecting.
<highvoltage> RichEd: that sounds good
<ogra> Please over-rule my approval as required.
<RichEd> Same thing for the handbook ... Will you and I can take it offline for when you get back to Cape Town.
<willvdl> okie
<highvoltage> crazypurple: we received your message sent to ogra, thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: over-rule?
<ogra> highvoltage, if its required, yes :)
<highvoltage> ok. I don't know what it means :)
<highvoltage> oh ok, nm!
<ogra> we are allowed to revert it if needed
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> cut and paste it in teh notepad
<highvoltage> heh, sorry, that was supposed to be a joke in another channel
* highvoltage blushes
<ogra> are we done with tech/doc ?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> artwokr !
<ogra> (or art work)
<willvdl> the art of woks
<ogra> cbx33 is gone ... but i got the last piece for the usplash ... yesterday ...
<ogra> did everybody see the new artwork in edgy already ?
<willvdl> haven't had a chance yet
<willvdl> just bits
<ogra> i'll do some screenshots before the next meeting
<ogra> its pertty consistent ... everything fits this time ... 
<ogra> and we turn quite yellow this time
<ogra> yellow/orangeish
<willvdl> yellow = colour of intelligence
<ogra> and it doesnt look as young as the last ones
<highvoltage> willvdl: like a 7-11?
<willvdl> they're green & yellow
<ogra> i.e. it will fit for most ages 
<ogra> i'd say 7-18 for the default ...
<highvoltage> :)
<willvdl> ogra,what are the icons like?
<ogra> (i'm working daily with it and it doesnt feel disturbing)
<ogra> the ones we always used ... there were no changes in the icons
<highvoltage> ogra: still gartoon, right?
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> right
<RichEd> we've already had this positive feedback on the mail list: The new wallpaper is more suitable for "older" students. Also the login- and the logout-sound is a ear candy.
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> cbx33++ :)
<willvdl> woot
<ogra> many thanks to cbx33 :)
<ogra> ande aliasVegas indeed
<ogra> but we'll need a bigger artteam in edgy+1
<ogra> we cant put everything on their sholders
<willvdl> yeah, we spoke about this last week
<RichEd> And not to forget: It is now very comfortable to use the local devices of a client, especially usb-sticks. Thanks for the work, specially for ltsp-work
<ogra> :)
<RichEd> ogra: pete and lisa and I are discussing a larger team
<ogra> great
<RichEd> we raised it at the meeting, and also have had quite a detailed offline discussion.
<ogra> that and the doc team need a lot of care taking in edgy+1
<RichEd> To summarise briefly:
<ogra> the dev side seems to grow on its own now ...
<RichEd> We proposed making Lisas role "Education Art Director" - the coordinator across Web & Wiki & Community & OS
<ogra> great
<RichEd> i.e. responsible for a consistent look & feel across the whole experience
<ogra> but dont forget we'll need a team first for a team lead ;)
<RichEd> We then need to rectruit for biger community.
<ogra> right
<RichEd> *recruit * bigger
<ogra> i'm setting my hopes into k12 people that might consider coming over or joining efforts
<highvoltage> I believe that is likely to happen.
<ogra> i hope so
<RichEd> Note that recruitement is an important part of the End User Community Space goals ! 
<RichEd> Pete said to me last week that even Lisa says she does not understand most of what we are talking about in the meetings ...
<ogra> well, she can run her own artteam meeting if she likes :)
<ogra> and just paste a link to the outcome here :)
<RichEd> We need a space for people who are "afraid of technical stuff / people" but who still have great skills to offer.
<ogra> right
<willvdl> at the risk of diluting our channels
<RichEd> So it is not only a community space to serve thier needs, but also to act as a space for us to interact with the "human beings".
<ogra> we're to small yet to make a big split
<ogra> else i'd vote for an edubuntu-artwork ML
<ogra> but for now the -users list should do
<RichEd> I don't expect the techncial people here to go anywhere ! I see myself as standing with one leg on each side of the divide ... with tech people as we have at the moment, and people like Lisa and the end users on the other side.
<RichEd> We must not do anything to dilute the spirit and energy that is here. That is a fundamental given.
<ogra> if we *have* a team we should also have a channel and a mailing list for them 
<ogra> but for now i think its better to keep them in one place still
<RichEd> Yep. I am working on making the new space and interfaces. We must not use the new until the all the benefits of the existing can be linked in and supported.
<ogra> look at the edubuntu-es/-de channels they are unused ... we did it in the wrong order
<ogra> same for the edubuntu-es ML i think
<RichEd> I've created a new channel for general education discussions: #ubuntu-education
<highvoltage> according to mhz edubuntu-es has quite a strong community behind it, although I must admit I don't know what's happening on the -es mailing list
<RichEd> Where we can have the non-technical people feeling free to chat ... but will not move any of our existing stuff there.
<rodarvus> highvoltage, non technical people are just not fond of mailing lists.
<RichEd> rodarvus: yep ... that's been a big topic of debate
<rodarvus> they just have a different culture
<highvoltage> rodarvus: true.
<ogra> highvoltage, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel-es/ looks like there are only 5 ppl posting at all
<ogra> and its nearly a year old
<RichEd> that's why we will probably be going with drupal for the user space ... forums are more the novice user style
<highvoltage> :/
<ogra> #edubuntu-de has nearly turned into my private chatroom
<highvoltage> pity pips1 isn't here today
<ogra> so lets not split the community premature
<highvoltage> +1
<RichEd> pips1 is on leave with his wife, but he has being doing some sterling research.
<RichEd> He was at a general "Education Conference" last week, and has been looking at communities very seriously, and in depth.
<RichEd> So we will:
<RichEd> 1. NOT dilute the enrgy and people here
<RichEd> 2. NOT replace anything here unless it is proved better
<RichEd> 3. NOT make bold announcements until we have actual traffic and real people supporting us
<ogra> 4. not split until we have some momentum ?
<ogra> right
<RichEd> And all final decisions will be decided by the edubuntu meeting ... there is no unilateral action :)
<ogra> great
<finalbeta> Especially for graphics people, forums are more there way of doing things. beter integration of the community forums with groups. forums for art team or something, where they can organise contests. Will get people that normally are not involved, involved. Just a wild idea tho. 
<RichEd> Hedgemage also has a lot of FOSS and Education experience, and has:
<RichEd> 1. drupal skills
<ogra> well, the ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu artteams operate only via the ubuntu-art ML
<RichEd> 2. sensitivity to the tech personality profile and the user personality profile
<RichEd> and 3. knows of how not to do it from some train smashes she has witnessed
<RichEd> :) So there is a wide and varied and considered input before action.
<ogra> it would be cool to have a forum gateway for tech issues to the edubuntu-devel list
<ogra> so support could be given through the ML ... and we dont have weird workarounds in the forumks like in the ubuntu forums
<ogra> since most developers wont read forums
<RichEd> ogra, we can look at that for sure. bridges between the two worlds will make it easier
<finalbeta> To me, the forums seems to be where you can best attract people to other concepts, like mailing lists. (since it is the first place users go when the get involved)
<finalbeta> they*
<willvdl> and if you're looking for a solution that has been solved
<RichEd> Yep. The habit of the newbie users seem to be: browse the forums anonymously, lok for answers, post queastions only when comfortable
<ogra> finalbeta, yep, i agree, but the fact that most devs dont read forums and most users do brings up weird solutions that can be avoided by getting the dev expetise into the forums somehow ...
<RichEd> *look *questions
<ogra> a forum/ML GW is one way to solve that
<RichEd> We are also looking at a model where the users can debate in loose language ... and a moderator looks for good solutions which then become sticky posts, and make their way across to the wiki pages for FAQs.
<ogra> right
<RichEd> The GW ogra suggests will help with that. Even if ogra say corrects to me via email, and I then go fix the forum.
<ogra> righrt
<RichEd> So we preserve quality and accuracy from 100% accurate core (www.ubuntu.com www.edubuntu.org) outwards through wiki towards user space
<RichEd> We know the user space will not be 100% accurate ... but we will reference only the www and wiki as officialy approved information
<ogra> we're 40 mins over time ... and somehow slipped from art into community :)
<ogra> (just a reminder)
<RichEd> It was a more or less natural shift. And I think we are more or less done with both ?
<ogra> me too
<willvdl> uhuh
<ogra> Management and Planning ?
<RichEd> And Management is really about moving this stuff forwards. To avoid repeating, I'll give you the links on the wiki.
<RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning <- this is the start of the plannig exercise ...
<RichEd> *planning
<ogra> highvoltage, next meeting is no EC meeting ;)
<RichEd> A lot of it is draft, and incomplete, but it is being used as a living document as we buld the actual resources.
<yarddog> i am yarddog, and i would like introduce myself, i have started a new ubuntu irc channel in #ubuntu-newmexico, i look forward to sharing any info in this group. thanks.
<RichEd> *build
<RichEd> Great yarddog : pop me an email riched@edubuntu.com
<yarddog> ok
<highvoltage> ogra: right :)
<highvoltage> yarddog: great to meet you :)
<RichEd> Comments welcome at any stage ... volunteers also.
<RichEd> I'm also pulling together a page of all the potential resources we have available: wiki, web, mail lists, forums, bloggers etc.
<ogra> ok, are we dont with the general agenda ?
<RichEd> locos etc.
<ogra> (can we move on to Edubuntu Council stuff ?)
<RichEd> Yep. I'm done.
<yarddog> RichEd, sent
<RichEd> thanks yarddog :)
<ogra> ok, we have one applicant on the meeting agenda 
<yarddog> :P
<ogra> RichEd, please introduce yourself with a three liner :)
<RichEd> Richard Weideman: Education Programme Manager : Appointed by Mark July 12 - Full Time Canonical Employee
<RichEd> Role: 1st line contact for all Education issues across all Ubuntu Products
<RichEd> AIm: To produce a unified software solution and approach and support for Ubuntu's biggest niche sector : Education
* RichEd sits down
* rodarvus cheers for RichEd
<willvdl> ++
<ogra> whats the "habit change" point you list on your wikipage about ?
<ogra> can you outline that a bit ?
<RichEd> Oh ... how to make people practically change behavior: The Golden Rule : People will only change one habit at a time
<ogra> habit of ?
<RichEd> So if you need them to make a big change, you have to work out intermediate steps.
<ogra> (which habits of whom do you want to change ?)
<highvoltage> ogra: the habits of those who use outlook and IE! (I hope)
<willvdl> and those who ask too many questions
<RichEd> Any human habits ... established ways of doing things.
<ogra> questions are never wrong ;)
<RichEd> For example online grocery shopping ... is 2 changes for most people ... ordering online + get delivery of perishable goods at home ...
<ogra> (the planning7overview link is broken btw)
<highvoltage> My first encounter with RichEd was ~2 years ago when the HP country managers came to South Africa and did a tuXlab installation as team building.
<ogra> s/7/\//
<yarddog> RichEd, the message returned, <riched@edubuntu.com>:
<yarddog> 82.211.81.145 does not like recipient
<RichEd> So if you can break into 2 smaler steps, you have more chance of success
<RichEd> riched@ubuntu.com <- sorry
<yarddog> ok
<highvoltage> I was already impressed by RichEd's organisational skills back then, I think he is a great asset for Ubuntu, and I think he's put his weight into it quite well recently.
<ogra> right, but do you have specific habits and specific people in mid with that ? 
<RichEd> That sort of thing.
<rodarvus> its riched@ubuntu.com or riched@edubuntu.org (the second one, after this meeting, hopefully ;) )
<ogra> i assume you dont want to change the habit of my mother how she buys milk for example :)
<highvoltage> +1
<RichEd> Unless she is buying Microsoft Milk which uses Child Labour ;)
<yarddog> sent
<RichEd> rodarvus: I need oliver to approve my desired email addresses on edubuntu.org - the ubuntu.com people won't listen to requests in this area ;)
<highvoltage> RichEd: log a ticket on RT, it seems to work quite well
<rodarvus> RichEd is my (and ogra's) manager at Canonical, as everyone knows. He has been doing an amazing organizational work Edubuntu, and Ubuntu Education in general. He also contributed (and is contributing) great plans and general work for the community. I agree with highvoltage, and consider him a great asset for Edubuntu!
<ogra> right, that should work already, since JaneW already approved you :)
* highvoltage needs to leave in about a minute :(
<RichEd> janeW knows what's good for her ;)J
<ogra> ok, i think we're all aware of RichEd contributions so far anyway 
<ogra> the wikipage lists a bunch of efforts as well
<rodarvus> ogra, testimonials are good & important. new members need to be accepted in a very transparent manner
<ogra> so a +1 from my side here 
<highvoltage> a +1 from my side once again
<rodarvus> (and I believe this is the case here, as it always was)
<ogra> ok, JaneW gave her approval already 
<ogra> welcome RichEd !
<highvoltage> RichEd: congrats :)
<rodarvus> RichEd, welcome!
<RichEd> Thank you very much ... it is not something I take lightly !
<willvdl> woop
<RichEd> Onwards and upwards towards a better future for global education.
<ogra> i'd also like to propose that RichEd takes JaneW's place in the council
<sivang> ogra: is an ubuntu memeber automatically an edubunu member? :-)
<ogra> but i think that should be agreed on by the whole council
<ogra> sivang, yes
<sivang> ogra: ah, cool
<rodarvus> no?
<ogra> err
<rodarvus> I thought an edubuntu member is automatically an ubuntu member, but not the other way
<ogra> no the other way around indeed
<ogra> rodarvus is right
<sivang> ah, I see
<RichEd> I second Oliver's proposal ...
<RichEd> I think the naming is quite confusing ... can we dicuss quickly ?
<rodarvus> I second ogra's proposal too (though I can't vote as I'm not EC member)
<ogra> i propose we'll have an separate EC meeting to vote on that, i'll try to get the EC members together for that
<RichEd> You all refer to it as the Edubuntu Council .. but the group is just Edubuntu-Members  ?
<ogra> (else we'd have to wait 4 weeks again)
<ogra> RichEd, the EC are the admins of Edubuntu-Members
<sivang> ogra: what if stuff I'm doing for ubuntu is used for Edubuntu as well? for eample hubackup and systemclean up tool ?
<ogra> we'll need to revoke Jane there and add you to the list of admins
<sivang> ogra: can I use this as to claim Edubuntu membership?
<RichEd> quote: There are 12 direct members of the "Edubuntu Members" team.
<sivang> (well, actually, I hope they will be adopted by Edubuntu :-) )
<ogra> sivang, if you have special interest to become edubuntu member, indeed 
<sivang> ogra: I see, cool, thanks for the clarification.
<yarddog> i have read the wiki some, how may one become a member of ubuntu?
<RichEd> Is that the whole and entire Edubuntu Team ? of normal members ? 12 people ?
<ogra> yes :/
<ogra> note that many of the people helping edubuntu have already been ubuntu members before
<ogra> so they didnt bother to apply for edubuntu membership specifically
<RichEd> Shouldn't we have a seperate group: Edubuntu Council or Education Council and then oush for a sign-up drive for Edubuntu Members ?
<RichEd> *push
<ogra> well, the plan was that people active in edubuntu apply for membership in the edubuntu-members team
<ogra> that move was only made to get the community council less busy
<RichEd> Even if they are Ubuntu members, we need to get them to sign up for our group as well if they are intersted in education so that we can bang out mail shots to the people that care.
<ogra> you cant mail launchpad teams
<RichEd> yes, but you can at least find a member list ... we can take this offline, but it may be a good time to take a look from a step back
<ogra> its really initally only to take load off the CC and make the CC meetings more quiet
<RichEd> Okay ... I'm done for now ... any other matters ?
<ogra> ok, so lets close that meeting now ... i'll care for a special EC meeting to make RichEd a EC member
<willvdl> Folks, I must run. Need to wrap up some things before the close of business here
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> adjourned
<ogra> thanks all
<finalbeta> lol
<ogra> (that was 66 mins over time)
<RichEd> thanks all ...
<willvdl> ciao
<RichEd> ogra: it was scheduled for 2 hours ?
<ogra> we really need to cut down the general chatter more ....
<ogra> we usually only schedule for 1h
<ogra> or did someone change that ?
<RichEd> it says 12:00-14:00
<ogra> oh, thats news to me 
<ogra> who asked for that ?
<ogra> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<ogra> right, Ubugtu thinks as well its 2h ... all fine then
<RichEd> rexbron: cutting down, we can look at moving some of the meeting points into a general meeting ... like the artwork etc. where we use the #edubuntu meeting for a reportback, but move discussions out to their own forum.
<RichEd> sorry rexbron : no idea how autocomplete got to your nick ! ignore
<ogra> well, we just need to not drift away in general chatter :)
<RichEd> ogra:  cutting down, we can look at moving some of the meeting points into a general meeting ... like the artwork etc. where we use the #edubuntu meeting for a reportback, but move discussions out to their own forum.
<ogra> we managed to hold our meetings in less than 1h before
<RichEd> Chatter is good sometimes, but not too much in the tech space :)
<ogra> so why shouldnt we be able to do that now :)
<ogra> the topics didnt change 
<ogra> i think i should lead more strict ... :)
<RichEd> Point taken, but there will be growth in people and topics, so we may need to expand / divide.
<ogra> i'll try that in the future
<RichEd> I'm sure that the stuff that I am raising acounts fior a lot of the chatter :)
<RichEd> *for
<RichEd> The softer the issues, the more debate there seems to be.
<ogra> well, lets try to get the general meeting time to 1h and a bit and then as we grow slowly extend it to 2h
<RichEd> Okay :)
<ogra> i'll try to stop the sidetracking in the next ones ... :)
<RichEd> Perhaps we can make a back-to-back meeting arrangement ... 1 hour + 1 hour and people can decide if they want ot be in both ... I'll give it some thought.
<RichEd> When you said the overview link above was broken ... from the page link or a direct load ?
<ogra> from your page 
* ogra takes a break now ...
<RichEd> okay ... will check them all now ... still getting the hang of wiki syntax
<finalbeta> What actually happens with the above conversion now, have decisions been made, will stuff be implemented? hehe
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubug2] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<sharms> @schedule chicago
<Ubug2> Schedule for America/Chicago: 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 16:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubug2> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 23:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 23:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-05
<GNAM> wow time for meeting
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 23:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sfllaw> @schedule America/Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 17:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 06:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<mdz_> morning
<sfllaw> mdz_: Hey.
<sfllaw> Certainly morning.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Riddell> morning
<mvo> good morning
<mdz_> who else is here?
<tfheen> pong
<pitti> Hi
* Fujitsu pokes his head out of the shadows.
<mdz_> pitti: hi
<kwwii_> hi all
* mdz_ waits for the last-minute barrage from the UK
<Fujitsu> We're being flooded by core-devs!
<mdz_> dholbach: morning
* Fujitsu drowns.
<dholbach> good morning, mdz
<dholbach> morning everybody else :)
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<tfheen> GOOD MORNING, Daniel!
<doko__> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hey doko__.
<dholbach> HEYA  T O L L E F - hey doko__, Fujitsu :-)
* Fujitsu misses Mithrandir.
<fschoep> Hello everyone.
<dholbach> hi fschoep
<BenC> mdz: pong
<fschoep> mdz: can you put me a bit later in the queue, I've got a cold and need to order my list a bit more
<fschoep> hi dholbach 
<fschoep> dholbach: Doing fine, I hope?
<mdz_> fschoep: ok
<dholbach> fschoep: yeah, blubuntu and peace uploaded, will do tropic after the meeting (they'll be sitting in NEW for a while)
<fschoep> dholbach: OK, thanks  lot
<mdz_> heno: morning
<dholbach> fschoep: no problem - i hope we have the artwork example packaging gallery complete soon ;-)
<heno> mdz_ morning :)
<fschoep> dholbach: OK, can you also peek at my patch for #57626 today :) ?
<dholbach> fschoep: sure will
<fschoep> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> de rien :)
<mdz_> we are short ~5, waiting a minute for stragglers
<mdz_> tardiness abounds
<mdz_> time to get started though
<mdz_> tfheen: you're up
<tfheen> misc: some casper hacking, cleanups after beta, preparations for RC
<tfheen> next week: RC preparations, finishing touches to casper
<tfheen> oh, and I'm going to get a new Opera version into -commercial too
<mdz_> tfheen: what's your feeling on the bug list for RC/final?
<tfheen> (security fixes)
<tfheen> mdz_: the list of targeted bugs looks manageable.
<mdz_> tfheen: have you looked over the process doc for RC?
<tfheen> yes, and it looks good.
<tfheen> let's see if the execution works well too. :-)
<mdz_> the key is to make corrections as you go :-)
<tfheen> yeah, I'm going to do that
<mdz_> the checklist starts...3 days ago I think
<tfheen> it starts today, iirc?
<tfheen> with KernelFreeze
<mdz_> ah, correct
<mdz_> and then monday
<tfheen> yeah
<mdz_> ok, thanks
<mdz_> pitti: next
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * security updates: firefox 1.0->1.5 for breezy (ugh, thanks to all involved), openssl, mono, checked/published lots of updates from Kees
<pitti>  * fixed langpack-o-matic infrastructure to work with new SRU policy (upload staging in *-proposed), uploaded new langpacks to dapper-proposed, discussion about publishing/review is ongoing
<pitti>  * fixed langpack-o-matic to only generate new versions if something actually changed
<pitti>  * taught apport how to run really *fast*
<pitti>  * improved apport-retrace script to make use of new ddeb archive, so that you now get symbolic stack traces to the extent possible (depending on ddeb availability); will announce it on u-devel
<pitti>  * Beta CD testing
<pitti>  * bug fixing sprint
<pitti> Todo:
<pitti>  * finish discussion and SRU policy about langpack updates to get updates working again
<pitti>  * another bug fixing sprint, catch up with bug triage
<pitti>  * some more pending security updates, clean up the backlog of low-profile issues with Kees
<pitti>  * care for mysql merge if infinity's workload is too high
<mdz_> pitti: anything on your bug list for final?
<pitti> yeah, quite a number
<pitti> I used the milestone
<mdz_> manageable though?
<pitti> about 15 which are easy
<pitti> yes, the only bug that will need time to fix is the sudo one
<pitti> for the rest I have patches or an easy solution, just a matter of applying and testing them
<keescook> pitti: is that the ssh+sudo terminal bug?
<pitti> I think I can kill them by the end of the week
<mdz_> pitti: are you getting feedback about the ddeb infrastructure
<pitti> keescook: yes
<pitti> mdz_: yes, some; people seem to love it :)
<pitti> and various Debian guys approached me as well
<sivang> morning
<sfllaw> Hurray!
<pitti> but with yesterday's apport-gtk, the ddebs start making real sense
* sivang is here now
<pitti> erm, s/gtk/retrace/
<mdz_> excellent
<mdz_> pitti: is there a doc which explains to developers how to use it?
<mdz_> it would be useful if bug triagers could decode the crash reports
<pitti> mdz: that's the 'will announce it today' part
<mdz_> pitti: ok, thanks
<pitti> yes, I probably put it into the wiki
<mdz_> heno: next
<heno> a11y for Edgy:
<heno> * onBoard promoted to main but needs seeding to desktop and GOK should be un-seeded. This will save several MB
<heno> * Bugs: GOK crasher (58600) AT-SPI crasher (62446) 
<heno> * Live CD: Will test latest Casper settings, Need ubquity orca-as-root hack
<heno> * usability: gnome-at-prefs patch pending to eliminate a11y menu entries in Applications menu (59553)
<heno> *WinFOSS: just some cosmetic cleanups and latest versions of apps (esp. Firefox now in RC)
<dholbach> heno: I'm happy to do the seed change.
<mdz_> was just about to ask ;-)
<dholbach> ;)
<heno> dholbach: thanks!
<dholbach> heno: de rien
<mdz_> tfheen: winfoss is one for the checklist; please add it
<dholbach> the gok crasher was X-related, I think
<mdz_> it should have a deadline well in advance of RC
<dholbach> heno: for the at-spi crasher, we should get in touch with William again
<heno> dholbach: sorry William who?
<mdz_> heno: you had a chance to test a11y in beta and those are the only known major issues?
<dholbach> heno: Walker
<heno> mdz_: yes, that's what's on my list 
<mdz_> heno: ok, thanks
<heno> several things have been fixed in the past few days
<mdz_> iwj: next
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: reverted the Breakses in edgy (update-manager couldn't be made to cope in time)
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: Some progress on packaging the Xen/LVM virtualisation scripts.
<iwj> other done: firefox 1.0->1.5 security update for breezy finally done.  Bugs.
<iwj> todo: Bugs and more automated-testing-deployment.
<tfheen> mdz_: done
<mdz_> iwj: ISTR the firefox branding list being a targeted bug; have you had a look at that?
<mdz_> tfheen: thanks
<mdz_> s/list/issue/
<mdz_> "bon echo" -> "firefox"
<iwj> mdz_: Err, no ...
<iwj> I was waiting to see what came out of your negotiations with upstream.
<iwj> And secretly hoping the actual 2.0 might make it.
<mdz_> iwj: they're not being very responsive; we're likely to go with what we have for edgy
<mdz_> according to upstream there is no need to name the pre-releases Bon Echo
<mdz_> so we don't need to wait for 2.0 for that
<iwj> mdz: So just to be clear, I should arrange for it to be called `firefox' unless I hear from you otherwise ?
<mdz_> (and we need to fix it even if it doesn't come)
<mdz_> iwj: yes, matching dapper
<iwj> mdz: Well, yes, but when 2.0 comes the name will change automatically.
<mdz_> iwj: s/when/if/ :-)
<iwj> Quite.
<mdz_> iwj: ok, thanks
<mdz_> sfllaw: next
* doko_ is away for 2min
<sfllaw> Done:
<sfllaw>  * Set up lab environment to test fixes for *-proposed
<sfllaw>  * Verified bug 59228 was fixed
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw>  * Hug day
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59228 in cpio "cpio build glitch breaks Unicode char handling" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59228
<sfllaw>  * Pinged cgps about interns
<sfllaw>  * Installer testing with cr3
<sfllaw> To do:
<sfllaw>  * Hug day
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<mdz_> sfllaw: there are a few non-mainstream use cases which I think we need to formally QA in advance of RC; please email me and I will fill in the details tomorrow
<sfllaw> mdz_: Writing e-mail as we speak.
<mdz_> sfllaw: since you were in proximity, do you happen to know what's happening wrt cr3 and certification testing?
<sfllaw> I know that they're going to be testing the boxes that Intel has shipped them.
<sfllaw> And that they will try to do all the boxes in the lab on a best effort basis.
<mdz_> ok, that's one of the items I was referring to, but I have a specific list of line items
<mdz_> will follow up via email
<mdz_> thanks sfllaw
<mdz_> doko_: next
<doko_> this week:
<doko_>  - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 RC3 packages, splitting out icon styles
<doko_>    and dropping dependency on java-gcj-compat (saving 17MB on the CD).
<doko_>    fix openoffice.org-gcj to work again, updated some needed -java
<doko_>    packages.
<doko_>  - toolchain-roadmap: addressing bugs, still outstanding: glibc build
<doko_>    failure on ia64, currently working on it.
<doko_>  - toolchain-roadmap+1: prepare gcc-4.1/gcc-4.2, binutils updates.
<doko_>  - some fixes for python using packages
<doko_>  - other: looking at eclipse update, oprofile sync.
<doko_> next week:
<doko_>  - focus on OOo report, python reports.
<doko_>  - address glibc build failure on ia64
<Riddell> "saving 17MB" yay :)
<mdz_> doko_: the java-gcj-compat changes are landed now?
* pitti hugs doko_ for CD space savings
<doko_> mdz_: yes
<mdz_> doko_: well done
<mdz_> doko_: do you expect to see a 2.0.4 final before RC freeze?
<doko_> mdz: it's expected before our RC, let's see how it works
<doko_> final python 2.4.4 is another candidate for an update
<mdz_> doko_: could you follow up with LP folks to see about opening edgy+1 in advance?  last i heard, it was deemed possible but the plan wasn't very concrete
<doko_> ok, will do
<mdz_> doko_: thanks
<mdz_> BenC: next
<BenC> Done:
<BenC> * Most of the way through the dapper kernel post-release changes audit
<BenC> * edgy kernel is about ready. Few more regressions to look at. Upload tomorrow will be for kernel freeze.
<BenC> * started work on edgy+1 kernel
<BenC> * no-boot-loader changes will be uploaded tomorrow with kernel.
<BenC> Todo:
<BenC> * Bug review
<BenC> oops, one liner change to that
<BenC> * edgy kernel is about ready. Few more regressions to look at. Maybe have a few patches by tomorrow, but nothing that will cause an ABI change.
<tfheen> BenC: uh, tomorrow?  Freeze is today, can you get it in today?
<mdz_> BenC: are the regressions targeted?
<BenC> yes
<tfheen> BenC: or is it your tomorrow which is thursday?
<BenC> tomorrow == today for you guys :)
<tfheen> ok, thanks
<BenC> Thursday
<tfheen> hurrah for timezones
<mdz_> BenC: thanks for the intel review, have a conference call tomorrow with them to confirm everything
<mdz_> seb128: next
<BenC> let me know if you need any more info on kernel support
<seb128> Done:
<seb128> - GNOME 2.16.1
<seb128> - beta CD testing
<seb128> - fixed desktop bugs, a bunch with edgy milestone
<seb128> - bug triage
<seb128> To do:
<mdz_> will do
<seb128> - bugs marathon, backlog jumped from 220 to 340 in a week
<seb128> - keep fixing bugs for edgy
<mdz_> seb128: how big is your targeted bug list?  anything which should worry us?
<seb128> edgy bugs list is fairly small (13 desktop-bugs milestoned for edgy atm)
<seb128> no real blocker
<seb128> 3-4 bugs I really want to have a look at
<seb128> other are bonus
<mdz_> seb128: you have a lead on that gnome-settings-daemon issue?
<seb128> it's gst_init failing sometime, I've started to try figuring why
<seb128> I want to look at it today
<mdz_> ok, thanks
<mdz_> dholbach: next
<dholbach> Done (since last meeting)
<dholbach>     * gnome 2.16.1
<dholbach>     [* celebrated germany's union] 
<dholbach>     * bug triage
<dholbach>     * telepathy packaging
<dholbach>     * artwork packaging ({blubuntu,peace,tropic}-look)
<dholbach>     * motu-uvf
<dholbach>     * motu reviews
<dholbach>     * apt-get.org reviews
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>     * BUG TRIAGE, BUG FIXING
<dholbach>     * look into Debian fixes
<dholbach>     * a11y team meeting
<dholbach>     * more motu-uvf
<dholbach>     * more apt-get.org reviews (didn't manage as much over the WE as I'd liked)
<mdz_> dholbach: is artwork up to date with the latest from the art team now?
<dholbach> I'll upload tropic after the meeting
<dholbach> but after that, that's all I have
<dholbach> we might add some emblems to human-icon-theme, but fschoep knows more about that
<fschoep> Indeed
<mdz_> dholbach: ok, thanks
<dholbach> (nothing grave at any rate)
<mdz_> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * CD/Upgrade testing
<Keybuk>  * sysvinit: mount /proc/bus/usb again for release, using an awesome recursive bind-mount hack
<Keybuk>  * upstart: fixed bug of calling shutdown from runlevel 0 or 6
<Keybuk>  * first cut at making nvidia/fglrx only load if needed, infinity working on improvement for nvigia-legacy
<Keybuk>  * cleaned up anastacia
<Keybuk> ToDo:
<Keybuk>  * inittab migration
<Keybuk>  * update readahead lists
<mdz_> Keybuk: _very solid and obviously correct_ awesome recursive bind-mount hack I hope
<Keybuk> mdz_: totally bogus, scary, freaky
<Keybuk> but works
<mdz_> Keybuk: I feel so much better now
<dholbach> . o O { We're all going to die... }
<Keybuk> /proc/bus/usb is a recursive bind-mount of /dev/bus/usb
<Keybuk> with usbfs mounted with restrictive permissions at /dev/bus/usb/.usbfs
<mdz_> Keybuk: any remaining upstart issues to fix for final?
<Keybuk> and a devices symlink in there
<Keybuk> mdz_: just the inittab migration
<mdz_> Keybuk: how scary?
<Keybuk> which bit?
<mdz_> inittab migration
<Keybuk> it's vaguely annoying, because inittab isn't a very well-specified config file
<Keybuk> will have to look for "common patterns" (like commenting out something with getty in its command) rather than actual changes
<mdz_> Keybuk: you are full of good news today
<Keybuk> mdz_: I want you to sleep well tonight ;)
<mdz_> sleep?!
<sivang> heh
<highvoltage> :)
<Keybuk> that's why I threw in the shiny anastacia emptyness
<Keybuk> to make you feel better
<mdz_> Keybuk: satisfied with the archive checklist having put it into practice?
<Keybuk> mdz_: needs adjusting to better deal with NBS I think
<mdz_> Keybuk: how so?
<Keybuk> to find them, check them, arrange for rebuilds if necessary
<mdz_> ok, by all means ;-)
<mdz_> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz_> mvo: next
<Keybuk> also a note that you can't ever satisfy jessica
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - Beta release testing/bugfixing
<mvo> - Lot of bug triage (beta brought in lots of reports)
<mvo> - dist-upgrader work (edgyQuirks code that will ensure proper python2.4-foo -> python-foo transition and deal with hpijs, fixes, revert support for backports, we will get this in edgy+1)
<mvo> - g-a-i desktop files updated, added desktop-files from CommonCustomization 
<mvo> - prepared notifications about non-free drivers (update-notifier url support)
<mvo> - desktopsecure dapper-commercial update
<mvo> - backported gtkhtml to breezy g-a-i because ff1.5 update broke pymozembed
<mvo> - python-apt work (memleak  fixed + nasty crashes due to python2.5 C-API changes)
<mvo> - apt fixes in the i18n code and made the pkgTagFile buffer more dynamic
<mvo> - apt and recent g++ trouble with #pragma debugged with doko (http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=29289)
<Ubugtu> gcc.gnu.org bug 29289 in c++ "[4.1/4.2]  additionally weak symbols referenced/generated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<mvo> - upgrade testing
<mvo> - various fixes uploaded
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more bugtriage/testing/fixes
<mvo> - fix synaptic performance regression (#63171)
<mvo> - fix language-selector problem when new fontconfig fragments are added (#62869)
<mvo> - investigate popcon bug #64122, need access to the apache logs
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64122 in popularity-contest "Duplicated HOSTID in popcon" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64122
<mvo> - user notification for non-free drivers(?)
<mdz_> Keybuk: *inappropriate comment suppressed*
<mvo> - look into non-free icons issue of app-install-data (#61076)
<mdz_> mvo: is the dist-upgrader in shape for RC/final?
<mvo> mdz_: yes. we only get bugs about failing postinst etc now
<mdz_> mvo: in main?
<mdz_> are those filed and targeted?
<mvo> and there is a common upgrade issue for people who have installed unofficial compoiz packages
<dholbach> urg urg urg :-(
<mvo> mdz_: yes, I usually reassign those. mostly caused by customization in some way
<mdz_> mvo: you have an RT ticket open for the logs?
<mvo> no, doing that now
<mdz_> ok, thanks
<mdz_> keescook: next
<keescook> Done:
<keescook>  * new hire checklist, system access, etc
<keescook>  * Beta testing
<keescook>  * build environment creation
<keescook>  * security reviews: keeping "unchecked" CVE list short
<keescook>  * security updates created and released: gdb/all, ffmpeg/dapper,breezy,hoary, xine-lib/dapper,breezy,hoary, kino/hoary
<keescook>  * security updates built: bind9, python2.[34] 
<keescook>  * security investigated for: libmusicbrainz, libksba
<keescook>  * bug triage
<keescook>  * minor apport debugging/improvement, patches incorporated by pitti
<Kamion> damnit, sorry, totally forgot ...
<keescook> To do:
<keescook>  * security updates pending with pitti: bind9
<keescook>  * security updates with build trouble: python2.[34] 
<keescook>  * security updates for: libmusicbrainz, libksba, awstats
<keescook>  * stricter build environment (sbuild+schroot+lvm snapshots)
<mdz_> keescook: build trouble -> related to the update or something else?
<pitti> mdz_: related to the 'spethial' packaging of python
<keescook> it's related to build system changes, I'm assuming.  doko and pitti have a fuller understanding.
<pitti> and to some kernel weirdness in the test suite
<mdz_> nnrrgghhh
<doko_> mdz_, pitti: no failure of a test (just on the buildd's)
<keescook> it's been tracked down, and the first pass at the hoary updates finished okay.
<pitti> (eternal hang in a test that didn't happen in final)
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> keescook: are you now able to process updates/advisories end-to-end?
<keescook> nope, still going through pitti at the moment.
<pitti> the vendor-sec objection period finished today, I filed an RT for security@u.c. alias
<pitti> I'll also file an RT for jackass access
<mdz_> keescook: as you should be, but you have all the necessary privileges now, yes?
<pitti> but we need to make kees an ubuntu-core-dev for full access, and that needs to go through the official process
<mdz_> or waiting on sysadmin?
<mdz_> ah
<keescook> what pitti said.  :)
<mdz_> pitti: you'll guide kees through the core-dev process?
<pitti> mdz_: of course
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> thanks keescook
<pitti> already at it
<mdz_> Riddell: next
<Riddell> done: beta release, went very well.  KDE conference, lots of Kubuntu love.
<Riddell>       bug fixing
<Riddell>       KDE 3.5.5 packaging, Qt 4.2 packaging
<Keybuk> keescook: the TB accepts bribes
<Riddell> unblocked: ruby, thanks BenC
<Riddell> todo: finish KDE 3.5.5, Qt 4.2.  KOffice 1.6 also out this week.  UVF exception requests to come
<keescook> Keybuk: I must perfect my beer-over-IRC system.
<mdz_> Riddell: time is very short for major new upstreams at this point; are there high-priority fixes in there?
<Riddell> mdz_: qt 4.2 has some important stuff like not duplicating packages and giving us back qt4 dbus
<mdz_> Riddell: please be thorough with your rationales
<Riddell> nothing vital in kde and koffice, but still plenty of nice fixes
<Riddell> yep
<mdz_> Riddell: targeted bugs for Kubuntu?
<Riddell> mdz_: I'll do some malone targetting today, but making sure accessibility and oem-config work will be there
<Riddell> also if anyone want to fix libnss-mdns to touch nss.switch that would be great
<mdz_> Riddell: ok, please make sure those bugs are targeted by the end of the week
<mdz_> we need to know where we stand
<mdz_> Riddell: thanks
<mdz_> kwwii_: next
<kwwii_> The last weeks I did:
<kwwii_> completely new powermanager icons
<kwwii_> final tweaks on usplash pic, tested on lots of machines - seems to work and look fine.
<kwwii_> windeco button tweaks
<kwwii_> kdm and kslpash pics and config to fix bug and center the logo (fixed https://launchpad.net/bugs/40821)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40821 in kdebase "login dialog font is huge on 147 DPI screen" [Low,Fix released]  
<kwwii_> played a bit and finally gave up on the about/help/app-start pages
<kwwii_> next week I plan to do:
<mdz_> kwwii_: is the artwork now final?
<kwwii_> kmenu side image
<kwwii_> kubuntu branded kmenu icon
<kwwii_> web page images
<kwwii_> polishing anything left
<kwwii_> create a wiki page with all final artwork, screens, etc.
<kwwii_> mdz_: very close to it, yes...just polishing left
<mdz_> kwwii_: let's make RC freeze the hard deadline, including polishing
<mdz_> doable?
<kwwii_> hrm, we could come close
<mdz_> kwwii_: we need it finalized; no last-minute changes this time around
<kwwii_> we are not missing anything major anyway...so whatever gets left out is not such a big deal
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> kwwii_: thanks
<mdz_> fschoep: next
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep>  * community-artwork: conference call with jmak and sabdfl, follow-up tomorrow, wrote down final directions
<fschoep>  * firefox-themes-ubuntu: fix bugs, Ian uploaded new package
<fschoep>  * art-mailing-list: fix ML moderation, we now have an active team for it again
<fschoep>  * theme-teams: did my best to package their work, Daniel is doing the final touches
<fschoep>  * fixing bugs
<fschoep>  * updating specifications and bugs
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep>  * usplash-artwork: work with Seveas and msikma to get a new design in
<fschoep>  * sound-themes: got in touch with cbx33, working on shorter sounds
<fschoep>  * community-artwork: creating final designs to sabdfl's liking
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: iterate with Dave on polishing icons, integrating some community crafted icons
<mdz_> fschoep: likewise, make artwork freeze your drop-dead date
<mdz_> er, RC freeze
<fschoep> mdz_: I'll do my best and communicate that plan to sabdfl tomorrow
<mdz_> fschoep: any deliverables from the artwork call for final?
<fschoep> mdz_: I'm not sure if I get that question, can you rephrase it?
<mdz_> fschoep: were there any issues raised during the conference call which must be addressed for final?
<fschoep> mdz_: yes
<mdz_> it sounds like there were, but we need a list
<fschoep> mdz_: the only issue was that the artwork sucks so to speak
<mdz_> please file bugs for each of them and target them to ubuntu-6.10 so that tfheen sees them
<fschoep> mdz_: so we worked this week on solving it
<mdz_> fschoep: I am not amused
<fschoep> mdz_: it wasn't funny
<fschoep> mdz_: so I'll file bugs for the GDM and wallpaper then?
<mdz_> fschoep: anything which is needed for final
<mdz_> and it needs to be complete by RC freeze
<mdz_> barring extraordinary circumstances
<fschoep> mdz_: right, I'll do that
<mdz_> fschoep: ok, thanks
<mdz_> Kamion: next
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   misc: Edgy beta release. Lots of archive admin. openssh security fix. germinate fix to stop it wanting to promote type-handling to main. Renamed "server" to "command-line" install on the alternate CDs.
<Kamion>   sane-installer-keyboard: Extra bits of integration missed earlier, done for beta. Keyboard variant selector in ubiquity. Other minor fixes.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Fixed to prevent selection of reserved usernames. Now catches file copying errors and displays a more helpful error message, which should cut down the incoming bug flow a lot.
<Kamion>   no-more-devfs: kickseed fix for partition selection required by device name changes.
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   usplash: tasksel enhancements to fix resolution detection on fresh d-i installs still needed.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Still need to at least analyse gtk-mainloop-crash and invalid-literal-for-int crashes; may be able to at least work around these. Two other major bugs remaining for final (dodgy country selection and broken manual partitioning summary).
<Kamion>   misc: Fix system-config-kickstart, which is broken at the moment and needs a bit of an overhaul.
<Kamion> (I'm going to give the usplash stuff priority)
<mdz_> Kamion: are those important-sounding todo items recorded as targeted bugs?
<Kamion> yes, except for those two crashes because I haven't decided on those yet
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> have you had a look over the process docs?
<Kamion> briefly, but not yet extensively I'm afraid
<mdz_> ok, best to do it in the throes for the best chance of catching omissions
<Kamion> I've todoed that for myself
<Kamion> yeah
<mdz_> Kamion: how is OEM mode looking?
<Kamion> well, it works now, which is better than beta
<Kamion> still not that pretty, I'm wondering if it's worth fixing up the session startup
<mdz_> I haven't had a look at it lately, but feel free to email me with details if you need opinions
<Kamion> (for the curious, the bug was that importing the oem-config frontend to find out which one to use caused gtk to be imported which caused it to try to talk to the X server before we'd started it)
<mdz_> Kamion: thanks
<mdz_> anything else outstanding?
<sivang> mdz_: i have an update as well
<mdz_> sivang: go
<sivang> hubackup:
<sivang> - backup stage uses the new GUI designed in UDS Paris, including usability improvements and media detection fixes. 
<Kamion> I wrote the above hastily, but I think it's complete for me
<sivang> - Working to have a version to to upload early as edgy+1 opens.
<sivang> system clean up tool:
<sivang> - KleanSweap's author now working with me (was excited about me approaching him for Ubuntu). He already produced a perliminary version of a python back end, which we will work  to bug fix, and I'm intending to use for a PyGTK gui. for Kubuntu will use KleanSweap's GUI itself, or we might come up with easier GUI for the simple user, if that is desired.
<sivang> - Old kernel removals are still pending discussion and guidance.
<sivang> DB2:
<sivang> - Finally discovered the culprit for DB2 connection problems on canonical testing hosts. 
<sivang> - Now awaiting minor setup needed  on testing hosts. Kurt von Fink forwarded an request email from me to right places, hopefully this will get sorted quick in order to finish.
<mdz_> sivang: you can CC me and kernel-team for input on kernel removal if you need it
<sivang> mdz_: sure thing, will do
<mdz_> that is surely all edgy+1 work now though
<sivang> indeed
<mdz_> sivang: ok, thanks
<mdz_> last call for other business
<ogra> ?
<ogra> forgot me ?
<mdz_> ogra: oh, you're here now
<ogra> * last-week:
<ogra>  - beta release
<ogra>  - new gnome screensaver and powermanager packages
<ogra>  - fixed some edubuntu-artwork bugs
<ogra>  - identified remaining installer bugs (hardcoded hostname setting, translation regression in german)
<ogra>  - identified remaining minor ltsp bugs (#62036 and missing "DO_NOT_SWITCH_VT" in ldm)
<ogra>  - had to handle a huge mail bashing flood resulting from http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html
<ogra> * next week:
<ogra>  - fix the remaining installer and ltsp bugs
<mdz_> ogra: i pinged several times
<ogra>  - go over screensaver and powermanager bugs, fix the non intrusively fixable ones
<ogra>  - fix 640x480 usplash picture (was interim for beta, new scaled down pic there, not packaged yet)
<ogra>  - fix a minor student-control-panel bug with pessulus
<ogra>  - prepare for RC
<ogra> -----------
<ogra> * sidenotes
<ogra>  - we're now allowed to call our ltsp the ltsp 5.0pre version :)
<ogra>  - lots and lots of thanks to the bug squad for sorting all the screensaver duplicates !
<ogra>  - beta feedback for edubuntu was very positive, all automation seems to work as planned now
<ogra> i was here the whole meeting :)
<ogra> i answered UTC 7:00 in #canonical
<Keybuk> ogra: are you still planning a sysvinit upload, or should I?
<ogra> oh, err, 7:15
<ogra> Keybuk, will do it today, its so small :)
<mvo> I would appreciate opionions for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/61076 <- we say in http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components that some non-modifiable bits in main are ok (like fonts)
<mdz_> ogra: edubuntu bugs targeted for final?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61076 in gnome-app-install "app-install-data contains non-free icons from multiverse, app-install-data-commercial contains even more unfree stuff" [High,Confirmed]  
<Keybuk> ogra: it's what you do with it, that counts
<mdz_> mvo: ->ubuntu-devel@ I'd say
* mvo appologizes for posting before ogra has finished
<ogra> mdz_, yes, but not all filed ... most are one liner fixes ... got them on my whiteboard
<mvo> mdz_: ok
<mdz_> ogra: please get them in launchpad today
<Kamion> ogra: did you get round to going back through the IRC logs to find out why we hardcoded the hostname in the first place?
<ogra> mdz_, even if i fix them today ?
<Kamion> because I know you must have given me a good enough reason for that - it wasn't something I was keen on
<ogra> Kamion, not yet, that one i'll file
<Keybuk> mvo: are they non-free in the sense that they forbid redistribution or modification of the icon
<mdz_> ogra: doesn't matter, so long as at the end of the day all of the major issues are targeted
<ogra> ok
<Keybuk> or are they just non-free because "the icon lacks source code"
<mdz_> ogra: thanks
<mdz_> right on time
<mdz_> adjourned, thanks everyone
<ogra> :)
<pitti> thanks everyone
* mvo goes to get some breakfirst
<sivang> thanks all
<kwwii_> thanks
<keescook> thanks! I'm off to bed.  :)
* sivang follows mvo to the breakfast stand.
* ogra goes to try to wake up now
<fschoep> mdz_: I'm probably overlooking it, but how do I target a milestone for a bug in Launchpad?
<tfheen> fschoep: edit the bug, choose milestone
<seb128> mvo: no, it was meetingfirst, now is breaknext :p
<tfheen> just like you'd do if you were marking it as fixed or whatever
<mvo> seb128: haha
<seb128> you might not be to the right team to have milestone right
* seb128 hugs mvo
<fschoep> seb128: possibly
<fschoep> I have seen bugs having the property but I can't set it myself it seems
<fschoep> There's just no such option anywhere on my bugs
<fschoep> seb128: do you know someone who could elevate my privileges?
<seb128> mdz
<seb128> I'm not sure there is some fine granularity atm for it though
<dholbach> fschoep: I'll add you to ubuntu-qa
<seb128> dholbach: qa can't set milestone, can they?
<fschoep> dholbach: if that solves the problem, great
<dholbach> seb128: not entirely sure
<seb128> dholbach: I think they are not
<dholbach> fschoep: added you - try again
<fschoep> dholbach: it seems to work, thanks! Should I now use the 6.10 milestone (not beta)?
<dholbach> fschoep: yep, right
<dholbach> seb128: seems they can
<fschoep> dholbach: OK, great
<seb128> dholbach: k, they must have changed it then ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 14:00 UTC: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 06 Oct 05:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 18:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 06 Oct 07:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 20:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 00:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 06:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<mdz> dholbach: yes, qa is the right team for that
<dholbach> mdz: right
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 05 Oct 14:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 03:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 07:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 14:00 UTC: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Tonio_> time for the meeting I think...
<Riddell> yo
<Tonio_> I'm there, lagging because wengophone build, but there :)
<Riddell> agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> who's all here?
<kwwii> me
<Tonio_> pfff, 3 people...
<freeflying> hi
* Lure is Luka Renko
* allee is Achim Bohnet
* fdoving is Frode M. Doeving. (leaving in 10mins or so).
* Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
* seaLne is Kenny Duffus
* kwwii is Kenneth Wimer
<Riddell> ah, allee makes quorum for kubuntu council :)
<allee> heh
<Riddell> anyone here for kubuntu membership?
<Riddell> groovy
<Riddell> Tonio_: your item
<Tonio_> okay
<Tonio_> so we currently ship 2 apps than can make usage of kipi-plugins
<Tonio_> I was wondering if there is any reason we don't currently ship those plugins by default
<Riddell> begs the question if we should be doing so
<Tonio_> that's my idea yes
<seaLne> seems like a good idea to me
<Riddell> hi Tonio_ 
<Riddell> err, toma 
<Riddell> Tonio_: well it's yet another package to add to the CDs
<Tonio_> Riddell: indeed...
<allee> kipi-plugins are _very_ useful and has lots of bugs ;)
<toma> Riddell: hi, i missed the date, sorry im late
<Tonio_> most kde graphic apps can use them
<Riddell> allee: what sort of bugs?
<Lure> allee: exactly, but toma may have more to say
<Riddell> Tonio_: only extragear apps
<Tonio_> Riddell: bugs asking that we ship it :)
<toma> Lure: can you fill me in?
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes, like those we currently ship (plus showimg and others)
<allee> Riddell: no grave bugs. Just little usability bugs here and there.
<Lure> toma: we are discussing if we include kipi-plugins by default
* Hawkwind Has arrived
<Riddell> it comes down to do we want kipi-plugins or do we want another language pack
<Riddell> any idea how large kipi-plugins is?
<allee> AFAIK most are now fixed. Nevetheless they are useful
<Riddell> erk, 7772kB
<toma> Riddell: which language pack?
<Tonio_> Riddell: heh, that's the problem :)
<Riddell> toma: dunno, whichever is at the bottom of the list when we fill up the CDs with language packs
<Riddell> the daily CDs have no language packs just now, I'll fill it up closer to RC time
<toma> Riddell: which kipi apps are shipped by default?
<Riddell> in my opinion 7MB is too much to lose
<Riddell> gwenview and digikam
<Tonio_> Riddell: how much space do we have ?
<Tonio_> I know that the problem is on amd64 cd right ?
<Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20061005/
<Lure> Riddell: did't we just got 17MB from OOo back? ;-)
<Riddell> 13MB on i386
<toma> i think kipi brings the fun to digikam and gwenview, so i think it is important
<toma> for the user experience
<Lure> toma: +1
<Tonio_> well the size on the cd becomes a real issue, so maybe we need to discuss and find a solution to that problem... 
<Tonio_> how can we free space ?
<Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20061005/  6MB on ppc
<allee> Riddell: ~ 5 MB are documentation.  biggest lang in it is 1.6 MB
<toma> we could split doc
<toma> allee: you are fast
<Riddell> allee: so we coud split out docs from kipi-plugins and only have about 2MB?
<toma> Riddell: would not surprise me
<toma> Riddell: same doc author as digikam ;-)
<Riddell> sound like a plan
<Riddell> any volunteers to do that?
<toma> whats the deadline?
<Riddell> toot sweet!
<Tonio_> Riddell: I can
<allee> Why aren't the docs splitted out during build in kubuntu?  Is this only done for messages?
<Tonio_> Riddell: if you are okay on the plan, I'll split out the docs tomorrow
<Riddell> allee: it's only done for messages so far, main kde modules put their translations into kde-i18n-xx
<Riddell> Tonio_: ok, lets do that
<allee> Will this be accepted by ftp-master?  AFAIK, debian ftp-master reject such -<lang> splits
<Riddell> if we say it's needed to get it on the CD that'll be fine
<Tonio_> Riddell: but talking about space on the cd, I really think switching in one or two releases to koffice could free LOTS of space...., but that's not the subject today
<Riddell> Tonio_: that's a separate issue :)
<toma> allee: split doc and doc translations, not split all languages seperate...
<Tonio_> Riddell: hehe, yes, but that'll have to be discussed also ;)
<Riddell> ok, moving on?
<Tonio_> yes
<Riddell> kwwii: your item
<allee> Tonio_: so kipi-plugins and kupi-plugins-doc?
<kwwii> ok....I wanted to discuss what we think still needs to be done to complete the theme for 6.10..it is now or never :-)
<Tonio_> allee: exactly
<Riddell> kmenu side image!
<kwwii> I thought about adding a kmenu icon that is kubuntu branded, ideas?
<allee> Tonio_: then see KubuntuKDEExtras wiki page and feel invited :
<allee> +)
<kwwii> Riddell: whether or not we use a kubuntu menu icon affects the kmenu image
<seaLne> personally i like the K
<Riddell> in general I'm against a kmenu icon, but I'd be interested to see the ideas
<Lure> kwwii: I am all for it
<Tonio_> allee: will do
<Riddell> I like kubuntu to keep KDE branding
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes, me too
<kwwii> ok, so nothing sticks out in peoples mind as "why the hell didn't he make that pic!"?
<Riddell> kwwii: got ideas for an announcement image?
<allee> kwwii: I prefer the standard k menu.  We should not do branding everywhere so KDE does not look like KDE as in other distros
<imbrandon_> ..
<Riddell> I know my chest was pretty sexy for the beta, but we'll need another idea for the final
<kwwii> Riddell: that is the second point, kinda
<imbrandon_> late fella's sorry 
<kwwii> what do we want to do with the website?
<kwwii> do we want to go back to something simple, more like ubuntu? or keep up the 3d image thing
<Riddell> kwwii: which 3d image?
<freeflying> kwwii: can we make logout dialog more kubuntu-ish
<kwwii> Riddell: I will work on something
* fdoving likes simple.
<kwwii> Riddell: the old "new" logo
<kwwii> Riddell: as compared to the new, new logo (the one printed on the banners at akademy)
<Riddell> freeflying: too late for that in edgy I think, but I'd love to see patches for edgy+1
<allee> freeflying: good suggestion!!!
<seaLne> i don't think the logo on the webpage quite fits with the rest of it
<Riddell> kwwii: new new logo is nice
<kwwii> Riddell: or should we use a simple gradient with the simple 2d logo on it?
<Riddell> kwwii: well you're the artist :)  but I like the new new logo as you say
<kwwii> ok, I'll work on two versions and we can see what people think
<imbrandon_> whoa no +1 on the kmenu logo "becouse everyone else does it" ?!?
<Riddell> imbrandon_: no +1 == -1 ?
<Riddell> kwwii: do you have the bzr source of the kubuntu-website?
<allee> kwwii: desktop and web/wiki style matching is a nice thing IMHO
<imbrandon_> yea
<kwwii> I could put part of a half transparent logo at the bottom right of the wallpaper, but I think it would ruin the balance
<kwwii> Riddell: no, I will have to ask you later for the different bzr sources (k-d-s as well)
<seaLne> would also look weird for multi head
<imbrandon_> yea that would not be good 
<kwwii> seaLne: very good point
<Riddell> so kmenu side image, maybe kmenu icon, announce image (and RC image?) and website headers
<Riddell> and I need to package guidance to get the new guidance power manager icons
<kwwii> Riddell: hehe, I might just update them as well...when would you do that?
<Riddell> kwwii: whenever I get a few minutes
<kwwii> I have a really good idea, but I need to take time and try to draw it
<kwwii> well, we can live with the current ones
<kwwii> I guess people like them better than the colored versions?
<Tonio_> kwwii, Riddell: I'll have time for this tomorrow too
<Tonio_> Riddell: I can build guidance tomorrow
<Riddell> Tonio_: cool, it's fiddly I'll talk to you about it later
<toma> Tonio_: are you full time working on kubuntu now?
<Lure> kwwii: they are better than old one, I just think black is just to dark (and Oxygen like)
<Tonio_> toma: I don't have any job at the moment, so yes, I have a lot of free time :)
<Riddell> ;lk;'
<kwwii> Lure: as they are the current oxygen icons, that is good :-)
<toma> Tonio_: okay
<Riddell> hnb9
<Tonio_> toma: but no I don't get paid for that :)
<toma> Tonio_: oh, that was not my question ;-)
<Tonio_> toma: haha
<Riddell> Tonio_: I'll bring you some irn-bru in the US
<Riddell> any other artwork issues?
<kwwii> nope
<Riddell> it's all great in general
<Lure> no - kwwii just rocks!
<Lure> ;-)
<Riddell> and sabdfl likes it too, which is the important thing :)
<Tonio_> yes, kwwii's work kickass, really :)
<kwwii> thanks guys
* allee nods
<imbrandon_> yup i'm with Riddell , rockin
<toma> kwwii: yes, i was surprised with the beautifull artwork as well when I upgraded...
<Lure> kwwii: btw, do we now set colorize for panel?
<allee> ... after his purple preference decreased ;)
<Riddell> JJesse comments that we'll need to update the documentation stylesheets if we change the website but that's not the case unless I'm missing something
<kwwii> I hope that my work is a step in the right direction and that it helps in the future to make kubuntu even better
<Riddell> we still use the KDE stylesheets for our docs
<kwwii> Lure: I think we should
<Lure> kwwii: this is k-d-s stuff, so probably Tonio_ can fix it
<Riddell> so, we're at the end of the agenda
<trappist> Riddell: there's a css issue that the kde folks still haven't fixed, if that's what you mean
<Lure> Tonio_: can you change k-d-s to set "Colorize to match the desktop color scheme" in panel settings?
<Riddell> trappist: what's that?
<Tonio_> Lure: I'll have a look
<trappist> Riddell: many of the links in the html docs are unclickable in firefox
<Riddell> hmm, that's not good
<trappist> Riddell: we've got a patch for ours, and I've sent it to kde-docs, but they haven't applied
<trappist> it's a very small and easy patch though
<Lure> Tonio_: thanks
<Riddell> trappist: send that to me please
<trappist> can do
<Tonio_> trappist: maybe we can include it waiting for kde to do the same
<Riddell> any other business?
<Tonio_> Riddell: koffice ? 
<imbrandon_> not from me
* Tonio_ runs away, fast !!!!!!
<Riddell> #
<Tonio_> Riddell: joking of course
<Riddell> im
<Riddell> excuse me
<Lure> Riddell: when I got accross bug 57831, I was thunking how we can improve that such patches are not forgotten
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57831 in kdeadmin "KDE Network Settings docs broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57831
<Riddell> -0
<Tonio_> Riddell: I would like to discuss about _sime's patches to kde
<Tonio_> they are nice, but still have a binch of issues...
<Lure> maybe Kubuntu Patches team or something like that
<Tonio_> Riddell: RC will be there soon, so maybe we should make a point with sime on that point
<imbrandon_> Lure: the easiest way is to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors if there is a patch
<Riddell> Lure: if you see a patch that seems easy to apply poke anyone in core-dev
<Lure> then bug team could assign them and core dev's/MOTU could pick them up
<toma> Lure: why not upstream
<Riddell> or ubuntu-dev has applies
<Tonio_> Riddell: do we include them now or do we wait for edgy+1, so that they become mature and bugfree
<Tonio_> oups, sorry... I lag a lot
<Riddell> Tonio_: do we have a list of remaining issues?
<toma> Lure: if the patch is confirmed ok, I'll move it into kde straight away
<Tonio_> Riddell: most of them are on the wikipage yes
<Riddell> floppies don't work, but they never did
<Lure> toma: true 
<imbrandon_> Tonio_: i say we keep them and work on the issues
* Lure do not dare to commit such stuff to kde svn yet (only powermanager) ;-)
<Riddell> I agree with imbrandon_ 
<seaLne> i have a comment about the automounting of cds, there is no obvious way to unmount now only eject which isn't very usefull with k3b
<imbrandon_> it has gotchas but we knew that would happen going in, and the old ways are just as broken
<toma> Lure: i'll have a look and get back to you
<trappist> Riddell: sent
<Tonio_> I agree too, but those issues are becoming emergencies
<Lure> seaLne: +1 - just got this issue today when I wanted to overwrite by CDRW
<seaLne> if you want to reuse a cdrw i haven't found a way other than to umount /media/cdrom0
<seaLne> yep
<imbrandon_> seaLne: thats known and one of the issues covered in the latest patch ( not applied yet )
<seaLne> what is the solution?
<Tonio_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia if you find issues, maybe interesting to add them here
* allee does not like automouting at all, sigh
<jdong> Tonio_: did you forget to say "if jdong touches that page again, Simon will come after him with a shotgun"? :D
<Tonio_> jdong: lol :)
<Riddell> in the whole kde shouldn't do anything if you insert a writable cd or dvd when k3b is running
<Tonio_> Riddell: +1
<Riddell> and if k3b isn't running it should have an option to start it
<kwwii> well, when it asks for a CD, it would nice if it simly started when it found one
<jdong> wait, what does it do right now if you put in a blank CD?
<Tonio_> Riddell: second part isn't that hard to do
<kwwii> s/simly/simply
<jdong> does it try to automount a blank disc?
<Tonio_> Riddell: first part looks like....... hard to patch
<seaLne> jdong: yeah and most of the time fails (good)
<Lure> jdong: not, but it does mount already written cdrw (that I may want to overwrite) 
<seaLne> i use cdrws all the time
<Riddell> interestingly talking to media ioslave man ervin at akademy he said he isn't going to use this in kde 4 nor will he use kioslaves again, he'll make it just do sensible stuff behind the scenes and have the file manager display sensible things
<Riddell> which probably isn't expressing his ideas very well
<Lure> problem is I was used to click cancel and not selecting k3b
<seaLne> Riddell: no not really :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: sensible to the context then ?
<imbrandon_> Riddell: thats GREAT news
<Lure> Riddell: what is the status of kde 3.5.5 for edgy?
<Riddell> Lure: works for me
* jdong also doesn't really appreciate the whole automounting thing
<Riddell> I'll ask for an UVE exception tomorrow
<Lure> Riddell: is kdesu already fixed?
<imbrandon_> Lure: yes
<Riddell> Lure: yes (but you need to delete your cache and --reinstall)
<jdong> especially for my dvd+rw's which only have so many mounts before they are toast
<Riddell> but there's no guarantee we'll get the UVF exception
<Riddell> I'll ask for qt 4.2 too
<Riddell> and indeed koffice 1.6 later this week
<imbrandon_> jdong: dvd+rw that only has so many mounts ? i think you mean writes
<jdong> Riddell: does 3.5.5 show any signs of fixing that unmount problem?
<jdong> imbrandon_: dvd+rw's with rewritable UDF filesystems
<jdong> imbrandon_: those only have 1000 mounts before the superblock dies
<Riddell> jdong: not sure, I don't have any media to hand
<Riddell> jdong: but sime said he was looking at it today
<jdong> k
* jdong _really_ cares about that bug
<seaLne> does that affect all?
<jdong> seaLne: does what affect all?
<seaLne> mount limit on dvd+rw
<allee> Riddell: not sure about koffice 1.6. kspread 1.5.0 was a pain.  With 1.6.1 I would have no problem ;)
<imbrandon_> thats kinda silly to make a UDF file system on a limited media for important stuff imho but to each their own
<jdong> seaLne: if you format it with a read-write filesystem , yes
<seaLne> ah so different from treating it like a cdrw?
<imbrandon_> seaLne: yea
<Lure> allee: koffice 1.6 is primarily krita update
<jdong> imbrandon_: it's not silly. I control and keep track of how much I've used the medium, deciding whether to mount ro or rw
<Riddell> allee: I think koffice 1.6 is not much changed, they're mostly working on koffice 2
<Tonio_> Riddell: is 80 MB wengophone deb to big to feet on the cd anyday ? ^_^
<jdong> seaLne: right. dvd+rw's can be used as regular block devices
* allee relaxes
<Riddell> Tonio_: err, yes :)
<Lure> Tonio_: 80 MB!?!
<Lure> Tonio_: you packaged windows binary? ;-)
<jdong> seaLne: OT, but I really don't recommend doing it. I'm daredevil so I do it :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: I think there are useless files, but will probably not be less that 20 megs at least
<Tonio_> Lure: wengophone is HUDGE, you cannot imagin
<freeflying> Tonio_: sounds like a dmg package for osx :)
<imbrandon_> ok , what about spec's , when does the edgy+1 spec drive start >? any kubuntu ones we should be working on ?
<Riddell> imbrandon_: once edgy is out
<Riddell> imbrandon_: but I'm open to any ideas
<imbrandon_> kk
<Riddell> imbrandon_: and obviously since you're coming you can register and drive them yourself
<imbrandon_> no ideas just yet, well some very gerneral ones but yea hehe
<imbrandon_> ;)
<imbrandon_> ok so for now we should all be in 110% bug mode, correct ?
<Riddell> so anyone with ideas please tell me or anyone else going to the conference
<Riddell> yes, death to bugs!
<intelikey> what about a script for text install on the shippit cd's ?     for those that have trubble with the graphic install?     (hope that wasn't out of line)
<Riddell> intelikey: far too late for the in edgy, but as a spec for edgy+1 sounds interesting
<toma> Riddell: debian will disable disconnected imap in kmail for etch, are there similar plans here?
<imbrandon_> toma: +1, its buggy as hell, i can attest to that
<Riddell> toma: hmm, we had a patch for that, but I guess debian has that too 
<imbrandon_> i found out that was what was causing kmail to segfault ever few minutes for me
<ryanakca> just got here, sorry, is it too late to add something to the agenda? (kicker locked by default)
<toma> imbrandon: 3.5.5 contains fixes for that
<imbrandon_> toma: great
<Riddell> lk-0io
<imbrandon_> Riddell: ?
<seaLne> Riddell: do you keep falling asleep on your kbd? :)
<toma> we'll see if they are good enough
<imbrandon_> cat ? hehe
<Riddell> blame the cat for random characters
<Riddell> #;'
<Riddell> ahem
<imbrandon_> ryanakca: why lock the taskbar ?
<ryanakca> lol
* intelikey blames cat    "cat /dev/random "   :)
<Riddell> toma: I've not heard of any problems with dimap since I added that patch, but I don't know if that means anything
<Riddell> would be a shame not to have dimap
<ryanakca> imbrandon_: so that the applet handles (the little bars that popup when you mouse over systray or taskbar, etc) disappear... we were talking about disabling them completly in #kubuntu-devel earlier, but that would mean that you can get to the configuration part of the applet
<Riddell> -[=o#
<Riddell> toma: I'll talk to danimo and other kdepim types to get an opinion on it
<ryanakca> Riddell: 'rm -fr catonmylap' might help :P
<Riddell> handles are good, else you can't configure kicker
<imbrandon_> thats what i was thinking
<ryanakca> Riddell: yeah, so just lock the pannel to hide them, and then right click the pannel, unlock it, and configure away
<ryanakca> no remove them completly...
<ryanakca> s/no/not
<Lure> toma: disconnected IMAP works nicely for me
<Riddell> Lure: it works nicely for everyone until their inbox gets deleted
<imbrandon_> so just the same as "right click --> lock" only default
<imbrandon_> ?
<Lure> Riddell: I use it heavily with my work inbox on Exchange (250 MB with several 1000s of emails) - no problems
<ryanakca> yeah
<toma> Riddell: i think till has put in a real efford to fix it, there have been no reports of mail loss in the br at kde or debian
* Lure is concerned now
<Riddell> ] pl[
<toma> give him food
<Riddell> 
<Riddell> she's a her
<imbrandon_> hehe
<toma> thats why i stay out of the casino
<Riddell> ryanakca: I sense the feeling of the meeting is that handles are good
<Riddell> well I need to go to bed, anything else?
<ryanakca> Riddell: kk
<imbrandon_> not from me
<imbrandon_> ( as in anything else )
* imbrandon_ is sleepy too
<Riddell> thanks all
<Riddell> keep squishing beaties
<imbrandon_> ;)
<allee> :)
<Riddell> beasties
<imbrandon_> kbugs !?! ;)
<imbrandon_> lol
<imbrandon_> ok gnight all
<ryanakca> g'night imbrandon_, Riddell :)
<toma> if anyone has a good idea for a name of new mail application, let me know
<ryanakca> toma: kk
<toma> kk? awfull name
<ryanakca> toma: does it HAVE to have a 'K' in it?
<toma> NO
<ryanakca> toma: kk = ok
<toma> ;-)
* ryanakca gets tired of K's in app names
<Lure> toma: why are you writing mail app?
<toma> ryanakca: the advantage is that you can find them easy
<ryanakca> but at least it makes finding kde apps simple
<ryanakca> lol
<Lure> toma: for kde4?
<toma> no kde3
<ryanakca> bbl
<toma> Lure: i need some things kmail does not have at the moment
<Lure> toma: then add them so I do not need to switch ;-)
<toma> Lure: the code of kmail is not easy to understand for me
<Lure> toma: true - I was also hunting some bugs in code and it is fun...
<toma> Lure: see http://www.omat.nl/drupal/?q=node/98
<Lure> toma: deleted mails also bothers me...
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-06
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 14:00 UTC: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 06 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 06 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council
<unix_infidel> 4am accesibility meeting?
<robitaille> it's not 4m for everyone around the world  :)
<unix_infidel> granted, but it sounds like my old job :)
<Cabb> How many hours left to the accessibility meeting?
<robitaille> 2.5 hours
<robitaille> it's 7:21 UTC..and the meeting is at 10:00 UTC
<Cabb> Good, then I'll be able to make it. Always have trouble with these timezones
<robitaille> @schedule UTC
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Oct 10:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00: Community Council
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 06 Oct 03:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 07:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council
<robitaille> @schedule pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Pacific: 06 Oct 03:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 07:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council
<robitaille> @schedule pacific-new
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific-New: 06 Oct 03:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 07:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Accessibility Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Oct 14:00 UTC: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<dholbach> Hello everybody
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> Ok, who's here fo the Accessibilty Team meeting? :)
* TheMuso raises his hand.
* heno hello
<jonsd> Just listening, in case any questions about eSpeak TTS
<dholbach> hi jonsd
<dholbach> Shall we wait until 10:05 for people being a bit late?
<heno> sounds good
<TheMuso> I'm in no hurry.
<dholbach> else it'd be nice and cozy and just the 4 of us ;-)
<heno> agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<heno> Joanie: good morning!
<Joanie> hey henrik!!
<TheMuso> Hey Joanie 
<Joanie> hey luke!
<dholbach> hi Joanie
<Joanie> Hi Daniel
<Cabb> Hello
<dholbach> hi Cabb
* heno introduces dholbach and Joanie via their blogs http://blog.carrolltech.org/ http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<heno> Not sure if you've met
<dholbach> Nice to meet you ;)
<jsgotangco> lol
<Joanie> thanks Henrik.  I see Daniel on the list
<heno> jsgotangco: evening
<Joanie> will check out the blog too
<dholbach> Ok, let's get going :)
<dholbach> as heno already pointed out, our agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<heno> Right, point 1: Edgy
<heno> I tested the live CD yesterday and the F5 options still do not work :(
<TheMuso> Being looked into.
<TheMuso> Part of the problem has already been found. :)
<dholbach> Ah nice...
<heno> cool
<TheMuso> Tollef knows about that one.
<jsgotangco> nice
<TheMuso> That should see the blindness profile fixed.
* heno heh, glances at #u-devel
<TheMuso> Need to test others
<TheMuso> I also intend to see what Riddell has done with the kubuntu accessibility profiles.
<TheMuso> I am actually rsyncing the latest CD images now.
<TheMuso> For ubuntu at least.
<dholbach> heno: you wanted to do a roundup of Edgy's features?
<TheMuso> Well for a start, we have moved from gnopernicus to Orca, partly due to GNOME doing the same thing.
<heno> ok so we have the live CD boot menu which should do:
<dholbach> heno, TheMuso: first of all: thanks for all the efforts you put into Edgy. This time the a11y team was much more organised and focused and what we achieved is really really good.
<heno> 1. 'High Contrast' - Use Gnome High Contrast Large Print theme
<heno> 2. 'Magnifier' - Set AT-SPI on and the default Magnifier (as before)
<heno> 3. 'Screen reader' - Set AT-SPI on and the default Screen reader (as before)
<heno> 4. 'Keyboard modifiers' - Set sticky keys and mouse keys (as before)
<heno> 5. 'On-screen keyboard' - Launch the default Gnome on-screen keyboard (we skipped this in Dapper, reintroducing)
<heno> on kubuntu:
<heno> 1. 'High Contrast' - Use KDE High Contrast Large Print theme
<heno>  2. 'Magnifier' - Launch kmag on starting session
<heno>  3. 'Keyboard modifiers' - Set sticky keys
<heno>  4. 'Keyboard and mouse modifiers' - Set sticky keys and mouse keys and mouse click tool
<heno> another big change is onBoard replacing GOK
<dholbach> yeah - it's good to have that done now. :)
<heno> which is simpler but more responsive and stable
<heno> dholbach: yep, great!
<heno> we've optedto go with new technologies this time, almost on principle
<heno> (the edgy release)
<dholbach> I know that we had a lot of support requests on the mailing list - but how is the general feedback right now?
<heno> we also have speakup compiled into the kernel by default
<jsgotangco> i thought it was already approved for such?
<heno> many of the support brequests are of course of a general Linux nature
<TheMuso> brb guys
<dholbach> That was my impression too
<heno> perhaps we could recruit some help from the general user list to help answer those
<TheMuso> back
<TheMuso> Ok speakup is not actually in the kernel, it is modules
<heno> I don't always know the answers ... :)
<dholbach> or... at some stage... split the lists into a11y-user and a11y-devel or something
<dholbach> hehe
* dholbach hugs heno
<TheMuso> Thats an idea.
<dholbach> (me neither) :)
<heno> dholbach: I agree. This might be the time, before the release
<TheMuso> I have decided to put an audio tutorial together once edgy is released.
<TheMuso> For accessibility.
<Joanie> cool luke!
<heno> If we can agree on that I can email RT about it
<Joanie> agree on splitting the lists?
<heno> yes
<TheMuso> I certainly agree.
<Joanie> i agree
<TheMuso> I don't think many people will want all the bug reports in their inboxes.
<Joanie> hehehe that's one of the reasons I'm agreeing :_
<TheMuso> How many people subscribed to the list now?
<dholbach> TheMuso: hang on
<heno> in fact some users have said the were weary of posting to the list because the content seemed to technical
<heno> so it should suit many users to split as well
<dholbach> 97
<heno> wow
<TheMuso> wow indeed.
<Joanie> alot of the questions seem to be orca specific too, it would be nice to get them directed to the orca list
<dholbach> I think we can keep ubuntu-accessibility@ for the user list 
<dholbach> so nobody needs to change that one
<Joanie> cool
<heno> dholbach: agreed
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<dholbach> ubuntu-a11y-devel@ maybe
<dholbach> so the name doesn't get too long
<heno> Joanie: yes, we can have a policy of suggesting that
<TheMuso> Makes sense.
<heno> and the reverse too
<Joanie> yep
<heno> I do see some general 'do you know of a good backup app for ubuntu' questions on the orca list too
<Joanie> agreed, but there is a second underlying question:  "good" = accessible
<Joanie> the orca wiki is shaping up and I hope to do some writing to contribute to that effort
<Joanie> so that we can point people there
<heno> true, but we are passing them  on to another list where that will also be implied
<heno> looks like we have skipped to agenda point #3, which is fine
<heno> any new team members or ubuntu users here who would like to say 'hi'?
<hittsjunk> Hi
<Cabb> hi! :)
<TheMuso> Hi guys.
<dholbach> hi hittsjunk, hi Cabb - nice to meet you
<heno> Welcome :)
<Joanie> okay, hey :)
<TheMuso> I still wonder though, if IRC still seems daunting for some.
<dholbach> Are you on the accessibililty list too?
<hittsjunk> yes
<Cabb> I am on the launchpad list
<dholbach> Did you have a chance to test Edgy's a11y features already?
<TheMuso> Hey Kenny. Nice to see you here.
<hittsjunk> I installed it from a Cd a few weeks ago without sighed help.
<Cabb> I haven't tried Edgy yet no
<heno> hittsjunk: that's very cool! did you run Orca as root?
<Cabb> I've been experimenting with full-screen magnification using VMWare
<heno> hittsjunk: would you mind trying the Live CD installer again to see if it's more useable with the new ubiquity/orca script?
<hittsjunk> Yes, I also used speakup.
<hittsjunk> sure
<heno> (you don't have to complete the install obviously)
<hittsjunk> IK have friends who want to install Edgy, but they are waiting on on a more accessible instll.
<TheMuso> I found a weird problem with ubiquity the other day with the beta release. I need to try again once I have the latest image to see if the problem still exists.
<TheMuso> There are certainly parts of the install that aren't very usable.
<heno> Is the partitioner still the worst spot, or city selection?
<heno> Does it help to run gparted separately ahead of time?
<TheMuso> The hardest bit is reading the text at the top of the window about the current settings you have to make. It is impossible unless you use flat review.
<TheMuso> And since I was doing the install on a notebook, I couldn't use flat review.
<heno> TheMuso: when did you try this,. before or after the custom script was added?
<heno> (a week or so ago)
<TheMuso> I think after the script was added.
<TheMuso> What does the script do?
* heno intends to bet a USB numpad for that purpose
<TheMuso> heno: Thats not the point.
<heno> it's an orca sript for ubiquity, meant to smooth out rough edges
<TheMuso> Next release, we really really need to do something about getting a laptop layout into Orca.
<TheMuso> Right.
<heno> Agree, laptops need better support
<heno> did they basically copy the keybindings from gnopernicus?
<heno> (going back 5 years or whatever)
<hittsjunk> no, from speakup
<heno> ah, heh
<TheMuso> The biggest problem with working out a laptop keymap is deciding what key to use as a modifier key.
<TheMuso> Like what insert is used for now.
<heno> this would be a good place to standardise btw
<heno> and laptop support is a good excuse to change it everywhere
<heno> at least introduce an alternative layout
<heno> that is the same on all screen readers and move towards that
* heno dislikes the insert key
<TheMuso> We need to ask the X guys whether it is possible for an application to request that the X server only turn capslock on if capslock is double-pressed or something.
<TheMuso> The insert key makes sense on a desktop keyboard, as you just use numpad 0.
<heno> ok, we're getting a bit technical now though :)
<dholbach> :)
<heno> let's talk to the X and kernel guys and write some specs
<dholbach> Looking at the a11y bugs in Edgy, we don't look too bad: https://launchpad.net/people/accessibility/+packagebugs
<dholbach> we should mark the real blockers we have with the ubuntu-6.10 milestone
<heno> is rodarvus here?
<dholbach> are there any you can think of
<dholbach> heno: he might not be up yet
<heno> I wonder if the GOK bug could be solved by reducing default wacom support
<heno> it's not very common and seems to cause other problems as well
<heno> who do we need a green light from on that, mdz?
<heno> rodarvus: seems to support the move
<heno> and it 'fixes' GOK
<dholbach> I'll add you two to 'ubuntu-qa'
<dholbach> then we can mark the bugs appropriately
<heno> I might be there already
* TheMuso is mulling over the festival bug.
<TheMuso> Need to pull that down and have a look.
<dholbach> heno: you are
<rodarvus> heno, I'm here, but not really :)
<rodarvus> (7:40am here)
* dholbach hugs rodarvus
<rodarvus> just need to take my daughter to school before I arrive for real ;)
* rodarvus hugs dholbach back
<heno> do any of the new users have any comments about the community process? How easy is it to figure out where to start contributing? does access.ubuntu.com help?
<heno> I guess we should have more frequent meetings :)
<dholbach> absolutely
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<dholbach> so apart from the gok and the festival/gnome-speech thing?
<dholbach> the at-spi-registryd thingie
<dholbach> what else?
<heno> Perhaps we could set up a mentoring system to get going with the AT tools
<TheMuso> I haven't had any real problems with that for ages now.
<heno> things like Orca
<heno> we can start by collecting volunteers on a wiki page
* Cabb loves wikis
<heno> and if we get 3-4 we can 'announce' it as a support option
<TheMuso> heno: The problem is essentially that if people have no proven way of getting Linux/Ubuntu set up, it can often be quite difficult for them to do so.
<TheMuso> Sometimes it can very much be a hit and miss affair for many people.
<heno> TheMuso: right, but there are little tricks that others know
<TheMuso> Thats true.
<heno> like running orca as root to install
<Cabb> I'll have to try that
<heno> dholbach: the casper setting
<heno> (being worked on)
<dholbach> heno: we should make sure the crucial bits are on that list
<dholbach> I think we're in quite a good shape
<heno> yep
<dholbach> apart from having to gag apport or fix the stuff ;)
<heno> \o/ that's a plan!
<dholbach> :-)
<heno> and fix the rest by running everything as root always
<jonsd> I tried Edgy-beta. Can't access internet: "Network not accessible". Works OK with Dapper. Is that a know problem or should I report it somewhere?
<heno> jonsd: a typical regular ubuntu problem of some kind
* dholbach hugs heno
<heno> jonsd: do you prefer IRC, mail or forums
<jonsd> First time today on IRC
<heno> you should be able to get good help through any of those methods in the standard channels
<dholbach> woohoo - ewlcome! :)
<heno> so the ubuntu user mailing list, the general help forum section
<heno> or on #ubuntu
<TheMuso> If you are new to IRC< I suggest trying to avoid #ubuntu if you can.
<heno> might also try a local group near you for less traffic
<TheMuso> Things move very fast in there.
<jonsd> Thanks, I'll do that. I expect internet works OK for most people or they;d fix it :-)
<heno> right so it's likely a config thing
<heno> that someone should be able to help you with
<jonsd> Live CD should work automatially?
<heno> if you give enough details
<TheMuso> Depends on your network configuration.
<jonsd> OK, anyway, I'll raise this in a mor approprate place
<dholbach> Great to have you guys here.
<dholbach> Should we talk about assigning those important bugs to people at another place?
<heno> shall we talk briefly about the next meeting then?
<dholbach> OK
<dholbach> Do you think we should have one before the release?
<heno> dholbach: yes I think so
<TheMuso> Is there anybody involved with a11y going to be at the uds?
<heno> we should harvest some ideas for UDS
<heno> which is quite soon after release
<dholbach> heno: Ok, that's a valid point.
<heno> TheMuso: yes Chris Jones is going and likely some local Sun guys
<TheMuso> Right.
<dholbach> (although I might be busy with other release stuff)
<dholbach> Two weeks from now, same time?
<heno> I think I'll have time after RC for this stuff
<TheMuso> Same time in two weeks sounds fine by me.
<heno> because most of my stuff will be very frozen then
<TheMuso> dholbach: BTW the latest version of festival in launchpad doesn't seem to have been built at all.
<heno> TheMuso: we've had some complaints from people in the Americas about the time of this one :)
<dholbach> we should look into forward the bugs we have.
<TheMuso> heno: Well whenever it is, I can be there.
<dholbach> TheMuso: I'll have a look, although I appreciate help with that kind of thing.
* Joanie rubs her eyes and sips her coffee :)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Well there is no build records at all
<dholbach> speech-tools doesn't build either
<TheMuso> I'm going to be out for the rest of this evening, but I'll have a look tomorrow.
* Elektrochelovek paskaitos
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/festival/1.4.3-17.1ubuntu4 - FTBFS
<dholbach> I'll have a look
<dholbach> speech-tools doesn't build either
<TheMuso> I'm looking now as well.
<jonsd> Is Edgy fixed now, or should I offer another update to eSpeak? minor bugfixes and improvements
<dholbach> which is a dash/bash issue
<dholbach> bug 63897
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63897 in speech-tools "source package will not build on edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63897
<TheMuso> jonsd: WHat bugfixes are they?
<TheMuso> Is it a new upstream version?
<TheMuso> Actually, if we are all done here, we will continue the discussion in #ubuntu-accessibility.
<heno> jonsd: only individual patches for bug fixes will be accepted now I think
<TheMuso> I won't be round for long anyway.
<heno> not full version upgrades
<jonsd> Some language improvements
<heno> dholbach: ^ correct?
<TheMuso> We are in universe freeze, yes.
<webben> I'm not really familiar with Ubuntu development processes; but if we're working on festival improvements, could we get in the lastest version of emacspeak to go with that?
<dholbach> new upstream version should be fine
<TheMuso> Shall we move to #ubuntu-accessibility?
<heno> jonsd: what is your role in eSpeak, are you a developer?
<dholbach> we just need to check it
<dholbach> yeah
<jonsd> heno: yes
<webben> current version is 23.x; latest version on emacspeak site is 24 i think
<webben> (and it builds okay with dapper, so hopefully with edgy too)
<heno> jonsd: cool, we should talk about eSpeak on Edgy+1
<jonsd> OK
<TheMuso> jonsd: Just realized who it was. Nice to see you here.
<dholbach> TheMuso: can you look into a uvf exception report for emacspeak?
<heno> we may use it as the default on the Live CD so we can support more languages
<TheMuso> dholbach: Sure.
<webben> what is uvf?
<dholbach> TheMuso: Way to go! Thanks
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<webben> dholbach, ah thanks
<TheMuso> dholbach: I hope to go for MOTU next week, so I don't have to asking people to review stuff.
<dholbach> webben: UpstreamVersionFreeze exception
<dholbach> TheMuso: rock on - I'll cheerlead for you in the meeting :)
<heno> TheMuso: cool!
<TheMuso> I'll also have crimsun who has been reviewing a lot of my stuff.
<dholbach> yeah
<heno> So the ubuntu dev process can be a bit confusing the first time
<heno> we are in a fairly frozen state now, so it may be better to point changes at the next version
<heno> which is only ~6 months away anyway
<TheMuso> If I get MOTU, it will be a lot easier for us to get stuff through into Universe at least.
<heno> It is important to get new ideas in at the very start of the next cycle as well
<heno> If anyone wants to volunteer to help me write specs for UDS that wouldbe great!
<heno> even if it's just filling in use cases and such
<TheMuso> I'll be writing one or two in the coming weeks.
<webben> what sort of specs?
<TheMuso> heno: What do we do in the case of deffered specs such as spoken boot and the partially deferred speakup inclusion?
<heno> webben: like these https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs
<heno> the partial ones should be re-written I guess
<heno> to only have the bits we need
<TheMuso> Right,.
<TheMuso> Well I can do that at least.
* heno isn't actually sure
<webben> Have we got any documentation/wiki page for recommending software to be used with Orca?
<dholbach> Ok, let's close the meeting and move to #ubuntu-accessibility
<TheMuso> lets do that.
<dholbach> Thanks everybody for joining the meeting. Have a nice day!
<heno> right
<dholbach> :-)
<jonsd> leave
<Tonio_> Riddell: kipi-plugins splitted and uploaded
<Tonio_> Riddell: I'm rebuilding openengo and it'll be finished in 10 minutes
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<Tonio_> oups bad channel...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Oct 14:00 UTC: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<siretart> !help
<siretart> !schedule
<highvoltage> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu
<highvoltage> siretart: you can also add your timezone at the end for your local schedule
<siretart> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<siretart> one hour to go
<siretart> thnx highvoltage 
<highvoltage> :)
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> highvoltage, siretart: for an eta of the nxt meeting, use @now or @time
<highvoltage> ok
<siretart> oh. thnx
<siretart> @time
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 06 2006, 13:11:39 - Next meeting: MOTU in 3 days
<siretart> @time Berlin
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: October 06 2006, 15:11:50 - Next meeting: MOTU in 3 days
<siretart> 3 days? that should read in 50 min
<Fujitsu> siretart, why?
<Seveas> motu meeting is october 9, not october 6 
<Fujitsu> That's what I would have thought :)
<siretart> oh
<siretart> my bad then
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-07
<highvoltage> !logs
<highvoltage> @logs
<highvoltage> hmmm... where can I get meeting logs?
<fdoving> the topic says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<highvoltage> ugh. thanks :)
<johnlittle> Hi Seveas, I was told that you might be able to assist me with a cloak and other membership related stuff. I became a member on 9/19 but haven't heard anything. If you could point me in the correct direction It would be appreciated. Thanks.
<johnlittle> Opps wrong window :)
<ru33e11> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-08
<cntb> hi pls excuse ! what is UTC time ?
<ompaul> GMT -1
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu
<yarddog> anyone here from new mexico?
<tritium> yes, yarddog 
<yarddog> albq?
<tritium> Yes, why?
<yarddog> #ubuntu-newmexico
<tritium> what about it?
<yarddog> would you be interested in joining?
<tritium> joining what?
<tritium> yarddog ?
<yarddog> yes?
<yarddog> you joined the channel :P
<tritium> heh
<Burgundavia> @schedule Vancouver
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 09 Oct 07:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 05:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-03
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<flint> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
<Ziroda1> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 04 Oct 00:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 06 Oct 04:00: MOTU | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 00:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 23:00: Community Development Team
* RichEd waves
<stgraber> hi
<RichEd> hi stgraber
<RichEd> ogra: you around ?
<ogra> sure
<RichEd> great ... kick off with technical then
<ogra> well, last milestone was beta, which we achieved alst week but with some major bugs (bug 145514 and bug 121547)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145514 in ltsp "interface nonexistent in the installer for ssh key creation" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145514
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building progressbar in d-i hangs" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> i'm currently working on both of them but it will likely eat up my whole week (and probably even the weekend)
<ogra> edubuntu/ubuntu edu participated in an event of the EU project "educonlinux" where we do technical consulting for creating a content management server
<ogra> (based on edubuntu)
<ogra> the latest artwork package contains the new wallpaper ( RichEd, any news about a widescreen variant here ?)
<RichEd> i've sent the mail ... will check again with her tomorrow
<RichEd> just got this mail from colin:
<RichEd> Moving milestone forward. (Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given
<RichEd> Edubuntu's CD space issues?)
<RichEd> ** Changed in: edubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)
<RichEd>        Target: ubuntu-7.10-beta => ubuntu-7.10-rc
<ogra> i need to update the credits to mention jill in that package still but was waiting to do so in case we get any changes
<ogra> RichEd, for what is the mail ?
<ogra> cjwatson, ??
<RichEd> yep cjwatson asked the question: Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given Edubuntu's CD space issues?
<ogra> on which bug (or whatever ) did he ask that ?=
<ogra> i see the question and also the changed status ...
<RichEd> let me query him .. or ask him to join
<ogra> but there is no context :)
<cjwatson> why am I being asked a question?
<cjwatson> it is trivial and obvious
<cjwatson> read the bug
<ogra> which one ?
* ogra sighs 
<cjwatson> I don't know, I'm doing a pass over all bugs milestoned for beta
<cjwatson> since, er, the beta is kind of out
<ogra> right
<cjwatson> I closed the window with that bug in it ages ago :)
<ogra> i was asking RichEd
<cjwatson> why don't you look at the ubuntu-7.10-rc milestone list ...
<ogra> just a changed status with some general text doesnt help :)
<cjwatson> btw, if I get asked on IRC for every bug I touch, I'll never get anything done, so I would like to discourage this
<cjwatson> the release team needs to be able to make mass changes to bugs without being hauled into meetings about it :)
<RichEd> cjwatson: apologies ... thought it would be quicker than a email exchange
<cjwatson> it doesn't need any further discussion with me
<ogra> no, indeed
<cjwatson> you guys decide if it's fixable, and remove the milestone if it isn't
<ogra> ah
<ogra> finally
* ogra found bug 128236
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128236 in edubuntu-meta "Edubuntu (Feisty) install uses uncomplete Chinese font" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128236
<ogra> i'll have to measure the size ... we will have some extra space on final i'm sure ... currently ubuntu drops a big part of openoffice, we dont
<ogra> if there is a final decision for ubuntu we'll move with them here which in any case will gain us some space
<ogra> but i cant tell yet if thats sufficient for the chinese stuff
<ogra> soo
<ogra> next milestone will be RC
<ogra> all three RC bugs we have atm are listed above and my main focus until RC will be to fix them
<ogra> beyond that i'll indeed fix any bugs i stumble over during my work ;)
<ogra> assistance would be needed with CD testing all the time ....
<ogra> well, thats about it, any questions
<ogra> doesnt seem like ...
<ogra> RichEd, anything from you ?
<RichEd> hi ... sorry nope
<ogra> anyone else ?
<ogra> ok...
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> ...
<ogra> adjurned
<ogra> thanks all
<RichEd> thanks ogra
<flint> ogra, I am very interested in staying in touch with the development process.  See you in two weeks "same bat time, same bat channel"
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
<bdmurray> hello heno_
* pedro_ waves
<heno_> hello bdmurray, pedro_
<stgraber> hello
<pedro_> hey there :-)
<liw> I'm here! (now that I realize this place isn't called #ubuntu-meetingS)
<heno> ah, sorry :)
<liw> nah, my very own mistake
<heno> welcome all to the first Ubuntu QA IRC meeting
<bdmurray> \o/
<heno> (at least I think so)
<pedro_> yay!
<heno> We have an agenda here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<heno> the QA devel sprint was very productive IMO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/OsloSprint
<heno> lots to do for the Hardy cycle and to discuss at UDS
<heno> bdmurray: has sent me some ideas for UDS topics. more input is welcome
<heno> (though that's next topic)
<liw> I obviously agree that it was a productive meeting (since I was there), and I don't really have anything to add right now that isn't on the OsloSprint page
<heno> any questions/comments on the sprint topics?
<pedro_> yep, can be add the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Stats to be discussed there also?
<heno> ok, so Action: heno to distill UDS discussion topics from the sprint notes and propose them for scheduling
<liw> pedro_, I think that looks like a perfect thing to include in the "Bug statistics" topic at UDS
<heno> agreed
<pedro_> liw, ok great
<stgraber> About the bug stats part, do we still agree that moving them inside the QA-Website/Tracker would be the way to go to avoid having them hosted on people.u.c, then fetched by qa.ubuntu.com and then shown (as we have python cron scripts for qa.stgraber.org anyway) ?
<bdmurray> Part of the reason reports are run on p.u.c is the queries run much faster there
<heno> stgraber: I think you, bdmurray and others should discuss this in detail at UDS
<heno> bdmurray: but we'll move the qa tracker to the DC *real soon now*
<stgraber> bdmurray: hmm, should be the same once we have qa.stgraber.org moved to qa.ubuntu.com and inside Canonical DC no ?
<heno> the plan is this week
<bdmurray> Ah, I did not know this.  So many loops to stay in.
<heno> hi davmor2!
<bdmurray> Well, that'd be cool.
<stgraber> davmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<davmor2> Hi
<heno> sorry, this first meeting has been poorly announced
<zul> oh helllo
<heno> davmor2: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> where we up to?
<heno> wrapping up point two;
<heno> if anyone has suggestions for UDS topics, please email them to me by tomorrow
<stgraber> heno: IIRC I started a spec about the Tracker a while ago and even proposed it for Boston, maybe you'd like to have a look at it to update or delete it (if too much out of date)
<heno> (there will also be the opportunity to suggest topics at UDS but these are not guaranteed a slot)
<heno> stgraber: will do, I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit where we are at now
<davmor2> will the topics selected be made available any where?
<heno> davmor2: Matt, Colin and Scott will have a manual scheduling session on monday in London and will post the results of that
<davmor2> okay cool
<heno> (using sticky notes and lots of floor space I suspect)
<heno> Topic #3 RC bugs
<heno> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
<heno> is the link
<bdmurray> I hate the format of that list
<heno> the release team is on top of this I believe, but we may/should have some input
<heno> yeah
<heno> bdmurray: anything come up in your study of iso-testing bugs?
<bdmurray> No, nothing new other than that printing bug that Till is on top of
<heno> Ok, I'll start working through the list as well as one of my next items
<heno> we should look at the completely untriaged bugs there especially
<bdmurray> I believe the kernel freeze is tomorrow so I'll be focusing on those
<heno> some have no priority setting
<heno> ok, cool
<heno> should we try to test for recently fixed bugs during next weeks ISO testing?
<heno> what's an easy way to produce a list of the previously milestoned, now fixed bugs?
<bdmurray> Yeah, that is what I was trying to say in one of my e-mails.
<heno> the list may quickly become too long for manual testing
<bdmurray> Or similar to what I was mentioning, I'll see if I can whip a query
<bdmurray> whip up even
<davmor2> one way maybe to have the manual testers select bugs in a similar fashion as the y do iso's
<heno> I guess these things should be folded into the test cases, but we don't really want to change those at every milestone either
<bdmurray> Maybe test cases for specific bug numbers?
<heno> could we pick out top 10 such bugs perhaps?
<bdmurray> That can be added and removed to the general cases
<heno> you shouldn't need to confirm that it's fixed on every single ISO though
<heno> like your LiveCD hibernate example
<heno> testing it on one should be enough
<bdmurray> True
<heno> we could make it a separate 'test case'
<heno> or a wiki page with a table to check off
<heno> (going low-tech again)
<davmor2> could the list not become interactive?  ie the ability to tick box for pass fail?
<heno> I agree, though it's probably too late for Gutsy for that
<heno> I suggest we add this to a Hardy spec, and perhaps make an informal effort for Gutsy
<davmor2> heno if that is the case then could we not use the irc channel for it?
<heno> bdmurray, pedro_: can you propose a few bug #s we should verify?
<pedro_> heno, sure will do it
<heno> davmor2: combined with a list somewhere, sure
<bdmurray> sure, where shall we put them? in the Testing name space?
<heno> Testing/FixesToVerify ?
<davmor2> heno: where ever it is make sure it is announced other wise it won't get used
<bdmurray> heno: That works for me
<heno> good point. let's add a few items and then ask the distro team to contribute more
<pedro_> ok
<heno> Topic #4: QA team wiki pages
<heno> there is some name space confusion between the ubuntu-qa LP team and the more general bugsquad+testing = QA team
<heno> is that a problem?
<liw> as a newbie I'll testify that I'm confused :)
* stgraber is back on-line, was having dinner
<davmor2> what's the difference between ubuntu-qa and qa team?
<heno> ubuntu-qa is a restricted Launchpad team, bugsquad with some extra powers
<heno> mainly setting the priority of bugs
<heno> but at the same time we want to build and active team around general QA in Ubuntu
<heno> and the name sort of gives itself
<bdmurray> Right, just because you can not set the priority does not mean you are not part of the QA effort
<heno> should ubuntu-qa be changed to bugsquad++ ? :)
<davmor2> it may be better for the lp team to lose the qa title then as it has no really reference to QA as it will undoubtedly be a smaller team than testing+bug squuad
<heno> or should testing and other QA work be a natural way to apply for the ubuntu-qa LP team?
<bdmurray> I'd agree that the ubuntu qa team could use a renaming to avoid confusion but I don't have a good idea of to what
<heno> how diruptive is changing the name of that well-established LP team though?
<davmor2> heno how big is the team?
<liw> I'd assume it'd be less disruptive than continually having to explain things, since it's a one-time change
<heno> hm, yeah
<heno> davmor2: 50-60?
<bdmurray> I think there is a lot of documentation that talks about the QA name though
<heno> but it also has core-dev and motu as indirect members
<liw> bdmurray, true, but it should mostly be in the wiki and searchable, surely?
<davmor2> heno how big is testing + bug squad?
<heno> not sure if that causes a problem
<bdmurray> liw: right for the most part.  I think kiko's recent bug status write-up mentioned the QA name specifically though
<heno> bugsquad is 837 :)
<bdmurray> I still think it is a good idea though
<heno> we probably need to raise this for discussion on the bugsquad and devel-discuss lists
<davmor2> how are you going to umbrella the qa team?  If it will be QA testing QA bug squad then could the lp team not just be added to the bug squad side of things?
<davmor2> That wat everything would fall under the QATeam umbrella
<heno> the current ubuntu-qa LP team is restricted with good reason
<heno> so that would need to be maintained
<heno> however we do it
<davmor2> but it would still remain restricted
<heno> currently we don't have an Ubuntu QA Team LP team
<heno> we may not need one either
<heno> anyway let's leave the wiki pages as they are for now and raise this on the lists
<heno> I'm sure many people will want to have a say in this :)
<bdmurray> I think we should have a suggestion for an alternative name before opening the discussion
<bdmurray> The name for the team that sets bug priority
<heno> that would help, I agree
<davmor2> I'm with bdmurray
<heno> ubuntu-triage, ubuntu-bugexperts ...
<liw> BugSetters? BugPriors?
<davmor2> ubuntu-bugcontrol
<bdmurray> Setting the priority almost seems like project management
<liw> ubuntu-bugcontrol sounds good to me, actually
<davmor2> heno not triage it would clash with bug squad I think
<heno> what is similar but higher level than 'squad', troop, legion ... ?
<pedro_> ubuntu-bugpriory is cool but probably not good
<pedro_> like the priory of sion
<davmor2> battalion
<liw> general? captain?
<bdmurray> come on now
<heno> buglords (like time lords)
<liw> ubuntu-bugtweakers?
<bdmurray> A squad is group of troops, a smaller group than a squad would be a fireteam
<bdmurray> A larger group would be a platoon
<davmor2> army :D
<heno> that's getting to martial though
<pedro_> bdmurray: haha that sounds funny is spanish :-P
<heno> but it *is* smaller
<bdmurray> fuego what?
<liw> we might want to avoid giving it a "glamorous" name, lest people get jealous and want to join just for the name
<pedro_> bdmurray, the platoon
<liw> the suggestions have dried up
<heno> shall we start with an email to the bugsquad list?
<davmor2> indeed :)
<pedro_> yes please
<liw> that sounds good to me, but I am new and confused
<heno> volunteers to write that?
<heno> I think I have nearly every other action item so far :)
<liw> it's unsporting of me, but since I'm confused about what's what, I'd like to dodge this one
<heno> pedro_: ?
<pedro_> i'll do it
<heno> thanks!
<heno> Topic #5: Agree upon a method for communicating high profile or well known bug reports amongst each other. It should be something that developers can add bug reports that they are working on too.
<heno> bdmurray: would a tag work for this?
<bdmurray> I brought that up because I spent a fair bit of time tracking down a printing issue I had only to discover that it was bug that was _known_
<bdmurray> and being worked on
<heno> perhaps combine it with a bughelper query placed on some page
<heno> just know as a bug or known as a very common issue?
<bdmurray> I think it will overlap with the milestoned bugs list a fair bit
<heno> affecting lots of printers or just one model?
<bdmurray> I think all hps
<heno> it should have a lower threshold and be less time-related than milestones though
<davmor2> I think that the bugsquad tagging is useful
<heno> would tags be abused eventually?
<davmor2> Why?
<heno> if it gets known as the tag to use to get your bug looked at
<davmor2> heno: how is the tag added then?
<stgraber> is there a way to know who set a tag ?
<heno> anyone can add one
<heno> not sure
<bdmurray> I don't like that tagging idea as it requires people to do work
<bdmurray> Reading e-mail seems like less work than searching launchpad
<bdmurray> So mailing the bugsquad - "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" seems the most useful to me
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<heno> right but tagging seems a good way to ID them
<bdmurray> Then bugsquad readers, or us, could tag and add them to a wiki page
<heno> we could then set up a bughelper script to send a digest of all bugs where that tag was added this week
<bdmurray> Then once those bugs were fixed they might move to the ISO test watching bugs
<heno> bdmurray: who would send those emails, developers?
<bdmurray> I'm not following regarding who
<heno> the "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" emails would be sent by developers working on a fix?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<heno> is that what you mean by _known_ basically?
<bdmurray> What I mean by known is one that has already been reported and is large enough in scope that multiple people will encounter it
<heno> perhaps a bot should listen for bugs being discussed in #ubuntu-devel
<heno> bdmurray: but isn't that potentially a very large number?
<heno> (of bugs)
<bdmurray> Perhaps
<heno> what about suggestion devs use 'In progress' for this?
<pedro_> already sent the mail to the bugsquad list [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2007-October/000636.html] 
<heno> bdmurray: you you think that setting a tag is more work than sending the email?
<heno> with tags, we could collect the bugs in a digest
<bdmurray> No, I think finding tagged bugs is more work
<heno> be we can improve that for a specific tag
<heno> with a web page and/or email digest generated
<heno> *but we can
<bdmurray> Added the tag is probably the least amount of work so maybe we should start off with that and see what we have
<bdmurray> s/Added/Adding
<heno> ok, sounds good
<heno> suggestions for a tag name?
<heno> none yet, ok
<bdmurray> I wonder if the existing meta-bug tag includes what we are atlking about
<heno> meta-bug tag?
<bdmurray> Well, it is metabug
<bdmurray> Currently used for bugs with a high probability of duplicates
<heno> oic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<heno> right lrt's look at what's in there already, and perhaps promote its use more
<heno> let's wrap up this meeting now though, we've been 1.5 hrs
<heno> thanks everyone for attending!
<liw> bye
<stgraber> heno: do you have some example feature to add to QA-Poll (once it'll be cleared for public release) ?
<pedro_> ok, cool, thanks!
<heno> stgraber: I'll think of something
<heno> (but now I must run ...)
* heno afk
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Oct 20:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team
<highvoltage> eesh
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-04
<gnomefreak> asac: firefox3 ready for gutsy? when did you plan on pushing nss nspr xulrunner? can you also push nspluginwrapper and iceape as well its been a few weeks since i fixed them.
<kraut> moin
* pitti waves
* Hobbsee waves back to pitti
* juliux waves also to pitti 
<pitti> hey juliux
<mvo> hello
<iwj> Hi.
<kwwii> hi
<Keybuk> Riddell: ping?
<Keybuk> (also waiting for macslow)
<mvo> Keybuk: I can give him a call if needed
* kwwii calls Riddell 
<Riddell> hi
<Keybuk> mvo: his mobile is missing, so it'd have to be his house phone
* mvo checks the wiki
<Keybuk> I spoke to him just over two hours ago myself, so he knows about it
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:07. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<Keybuk> firstly, an addition to the agenda
<Keybuk> This meeting starts at 1200 UTC
<Keybuk> not 1205, 1207, 1210, etct.
<pitti> ++
<Keybuk> you all need to be here on time
<MacSlow> sorry
<Keybuk> it's not fair on your team mates if they're here on time for the start, but you are not
<Keybuk> next time, I will expect you all here by 1200
<Keybuk> and we will start without anybody, and you will be noted as absent if you are not here
<Keybuk> ok, that's the nasty bit out of the way with
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  RC bugs in activity summaries
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC bugs in activity summaries
<Keybuk> A reminder please to everyone that your weekly activity summaries *must* contain a list the Release Critical bugs assigned to you.
<Keybuk> if you have none, they must state this -- and not simply omit the section
<iwj> Excuse me, I just need to supervise the meter readers who have just rung the doorbell.
<Riddell> I entirely forgot about that
<mvo> sorry, I acciently put them into the "non-trivial bugs" catgeory, I was misreading that
<Riddell> what's the best URL to use to find my milestoned bugs?
<pitti> Riddell: use the general milestones page and sort by assignee
<mvo> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=mvo&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.milestone%3Alist=474&field.milestone%3Alist=700&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=&field.has_cve.used=&field.has_no_p
<mvo> ackage.used= <- that is what I used
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-beta
<Riddell> I think I prefer pitti's URL :)
* iwj returns.
<Keybuk> ubuntu-7.10-rc now :-)
<iwj> Keybuk: none must be stated> Noted.
<pitti> right, *both* -beta and -rc
<pitti> and please move over your -beta bugs to -rc
<Keybuk> alternatively you can do:
<Keybuk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?advanced=1
<Keybuk> select the milestones your interested in, and fill your name in "assigned to"
<Keybuk> perhaps someone would write a cute python script to grab a list of the bugs for somebody and pretty-print them for the report?
<mpt> (Perhaps people should have bug tables with totals by milestone, like the existing table of totals by package)
<Keybuk> mpt: that would be awesome
<mpt> ok, I'll propose it
<Keybuk> mpt: could you work with somebody (voluntolds pitti :p) to spec something up for the LP guys?
<pitti> a canned avanced bug search in your bookmarks will do fine, thuogh
<mpt> yep
<pitti> yeah fine for me
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  mpt to propose LP bug tables with totals by milestone (pitti can help with our requirements)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mpt to propose LP bug tables with totals by milestone (pitti can help with our requirements)
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  all to include milestone bug lists in their activity summaries, or indicate if they have none
<MootBot> ACTION received:  all to include milestone bug lists in their activity summaries, or indicate if they have none
<Keybuk> next topic
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]  GNOME summit
<MootBot> New Topic:  GNOME summit
<Keybuk> [LINK]  http://live.gnome.org/Boston2007
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/Boston2007
<Keybuk> I've mentioned this to a few of you before, and got no takers
<Keybuk> does anyone want to go?
<Keybuk> (very last minute :p  you'd have to fly out tomorrow, etc.)
<kwwii> only if I can wear a big KDE t-shirt
<Keybuk> (it's a shame that the GNOME Summit and UDS/FOSSCamp are at opposite ends of october)
<Keybuk> ok, I'll take that silence as a "no" :-)
<Keybuk> any other business?
<MacSlow> I'd be interested... but well
<Keybuk> MacSlow: but?
<MacSlow> it's a bit short of a notice and I don't want to fly around while bugs need to be fixed.
<MacSlow> and... isn't there someone closer (geographically)?
<Keybuk> not in our team
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I do it, if you and the rest of the team are ok with it
<Keybuk> MacSlow: I'll chat to you about it separately after the team leads meeting later
<Keybuk> (when we make a decision)
<MacSlow> ok
<Keybuk> quick meeting then, thanks everyone
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:22.
<mvo> thanks
<kwwii> thanks
<MacSlow> oh... that was fast
<MacSlow> :)
<pitti> thanks all
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 05 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 11:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 06:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 10:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 09:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team
<nealmcb> MootBot: help
<nealmcb> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:58. The chair is nealmcb.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<nealmcb> testing...
<nealmcb> hey - the time is right again :-)
<nealmcb> [topic]  test topic
<MootBot> New Topic:  test topic
<nealmcb> [idea]  let's use mootbot for the colorado local team meeting
<MootBot> IDEA received:  let's use mootbot for the colorado local team meeting
<nealmcb> nice - mootbot sends the notes to me in real time in another irc window
<nealmcb> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:04.
<Arch_Rush> here
<Arch_Rusher> get 'er dun
<MitchM> So first up is the Gutsy Release Party; Did anyone get a hold of the Boulder Broker?
<nealmcb> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:07. The chair is nealmcb.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<MitchM> #agreed
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  Colorado Local Team meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Colorado Local Team meeting
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  Gutsy Release Party
<MootBot> New Topic:  Gutsy Release Party
<Arch_Rusher> SPEECH!
<MitchM> Did the gentlemen from vail get a hold of the boulder broker?
<tiborio> Yes Mitch.
<tiborio> But the 19th was taken already.
<tiborio> :-(
<MitchM> and the 20th?
<tiborio> I didn't ask since that wasn't an option to my knowledge.
<nealmcb> more information on mootbot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<MitchM> tiborio: well; could you call back and ask about the 20th? It may be the 'last ditch' date
<MitchM> if friday doesnt yield anything
<MitchM> (you can post to the list if its viable or not)
<tiborio> I can. no problem
<MitchM> superb; so as of now we are still in a 'status pending' on the location. I have still offered my house as a possible venue; but i'd prefer a couple weeks notice :)
<MitchM> We're shooting for Friday, 19th a 6pm still I believe
<nealmcb> [IDEA]  I like mitch's house as a venue
<MootBot> IDEA received:  I like mitch's house as a venue
<MitchM> [agreed[
<MitchM> [agreed] 
<MitchM> *shrugs* meh ;p
<MitchM> [AGREED] 
<MitchM> well; shall we go ahead and host it there in light of the confusion surrounding the location?
<gardenleve1> Sounds like a fairly good plan to me, if you're OK with it.
<MitchM> can we start a vote nealmcb ?
<nealmcb> MitchM: I'm the "chair" according to mootbot, so it only listens to me for some of the commands.  I can end the meeting and you can start it to take over as chair or I can be the recording secretary.
<nealmcb> [VOTE]  on having the meeting at Mitch's house
<MootBot> Please vote on:  on having the meeting at Mitch's house.
<MitchM> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from MitchM. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<gardenleve1> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from gardenleve1. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<nealmcb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nealmcb. 3 for, 0 against. Count is now 3
<tiborio> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tiborio. 4 for, 0 against. Count is now 4
<kweinert> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kweinert. 5 for, 0 against. Count is now 5
<bryangWFH> #VOTE
<nealmcb> bryangWFH: just use "+1"
<nealmcb> or "-1"...
<bryangWFH> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bryangWFH. 6 for, 0 against. Count is now 6
<MitchM> majority rules; I'll start making plans and post to the list if anything prevents it.
<MitchM> Party at my Residence; 6pm -> I'll give details to the list later
<nealmcb> has anyone not voted?
<MitchM> that's all present i believe
<nealmcb> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. Total: 6
<MitchM> Next topic -> Team Meeting Scheulde
<MitchM> schedule*
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  team meeting schedule
<MootBot> New Topic:  team meeting schedule
<MitchM> Did this time work out ok for everyone?
<nealmcb> works for me :-)
<Arch_Rusher> sorry i had a phone call
<tiborio> yes
<bryangWFH> yes
<kweinert> works for me
<MitchM> When should we host our next meeting?
<gardenleve1> I would guess no, since there are only 7 of us
<nealmcb> but we would want to ask the mail list to find those who can't come
<Arch_Rusher> 6pm what day
<MitchM> 19th of Oct. (friday)
<MitchM> details posted to the list after meeting
<MitchM> 2 weeks? 1 week?
<MitchM> for the next meeting
<gardenleve1> I think we may need 1 more meeting, just to plan for the release party.
<Arch_Rusher> hmmm.....probably will be later, i get off at 5
<Arch_Rusher> *i will be a little late
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: no worries :)
<nealmcb> friday??
<MitchM> gardenleve1: sounds like a good idea; when are you thinking?
<MitchM> nealmcb: it's always been friday at 6?
<MitchM> or am i mistaken?
<MitchM> nealmcb: when was the last party held; fri. or sat. ?
<Arch_Rusher> how long does it take to drve from longmont to your house
<MitchM> 25 - 30 mins
<nealmcb> dooh - I'm thinking of this meeting...
<MitchM> Arch is still -1 on topics :)
* nealmcb rereads carefullly
<Arch_Rusher> lol
<MitchM> Final Release Party Meeting -> Next Week?
<gardenleve1> Next week on thursday, but in the evening? That way people who cant be here durrig work can show up.
<MitchM> *nods*
<nealmcb> Another option for our next meeting in irc would be monday the 15th at 6 or 7
<MitchM> i'm awfully forgetful on Monday's :)
<Arch_Rusher> *gar* *nods*
<gardenleve1> Monday works, at least for me
<MitchM> ok; Monday at 7?
<nealmcb> is the 15th too late?
<MitchM> hmm; possibly?
<MitchM> 11th?
<MitchM> 7pm?
<MitchM> (next thursday)
<Arch_Rusher> sure
<gardenleve1> 11th works for me
<tiborio> works for me too
<MitchM> okay; we'll post to the list and i'll mark that as a 'pending idea'
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: still stuck on TLAPD?
<MitchM> :)
<Arch_Rusher> yeagh, you made me back in the mood earlier
<Arch_Rusher> lol
<MitchM> Next Topic -> Ubuntu Teams
<Arch_Rusher> Get 'er dun
<nealmcb> sorry - catching up
<nealmcb> the 11th conflicts with the LUG meeting
<nealmcb> boulder lug
<MitchM> ah
<MitchM> Wednesday?
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<nealmcb> I'm busy the 10th
<MitchM> Any good times for you next week at 7pm ?
<MitchM> tiborio, gardenleve1, Arch_Rusher, acomer -> suggestions?
<tiborio> I am always open! ;-)
<gardenleve1> I'm free until Friday, then I fly to FL for a weekend wedding
<nealmcb> for me the next evening possibility is really the 15th, monday...
<Arch_Rusher> never good for me at that time
<MitchM> hmm; well i'd say we void the meeting and use the list if anything doesn't go as planned?
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<tiborio> bless you Arch!
<MitchM> I'll host on Friday the 19th at 7pm; if we need an 'emergency meeting' we can schedule then
<gardenleve1> Guess so, we seem limited
<MitchM> *nods*
<nealmcb> meeting during the day next friday morning?
<nealmcb> ahh - gardenleve1 will be gone?
<MitchM> I think it'd be too hard to get a consensus (with us having 8 or so people here)
<nealmcb> np
<MitchM> i believe best plan of action is to see if anyone aboslutely hates the residence idea
<gardenleve1> No worries, I can catch up later. We can't all be here all the time, right?
<MitchM> and go from there maybe
<MitchM> gardenleve1: valid point ;)
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  Ubuntu Teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Teams
<MitchM> Who is not a current member of an Ubuntu Team?
<nealmcb> (besides coloco)
<nealmcb> (who is not a member of coloco??? :-)
<Arch_Rusher> me
<gardenleve1> I'm not
<MitchM> [IDEA]  Everyone should aim to join a team by next meeting
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Everyone should aim to join a team by next meeting
<bryangWFH> only coloco for me
<Arch_Rusher> cololoco only here
<tiborio> same
* kweinert is only coloco
<MitchM> same here...
<nealmcb> I'd say "invited to", not "should" :-)  I find it fun, but coloco only is still a great benefit to Ubuntu
<MitchM> *nods* - perhaps we should post some recommended team to the list?
<MitchM> #ubuntu-marketing always needs help with the UWN (Ubuntu Weekly Newpapers)
<nealmcb> The server team is a good group, doing stuff I think is really important for Hardy Heron in particular
<nealmcb> bug days are fun - I think triage on a topic you like teaches you a lot, and helps a whole lot
<MitchM> I'd recommend those of you that have some spare time to write an article or two; join #ubuntu-marketing channel and ask if you can pitch an article or so
<MitchM> (then of course join the launchpad team)
<MitchM> You can report on just about anything ubuntu related; and the channel is very helpful getting you pointed in the right direction
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<MitchM> nealmcb: i may join the server team here in a few
<nealmcb> getting involved in #ubuntu-us or the worldwide loco teams is also good for flow of ideas back and forth
<MitchM> Is there a global list of the 'Ubuntu Teams' somewhere?
<nealmcb> well there are over 1000 if I recall - or maybe that is projects...
<MitchM> *nods* - i think it would be a good goal as a local to get a good majority involved in the Ubuntu Teams
<MitchM> loco*
<MitchM> It's fun and gives back to the community ;)
<Arch_Rusher> or create cololoco teams?
<MitchM> oh; also a good idea...
<nealmcb> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<musashi1> late. sorry
<MitchM> welcome musashi1 :)
<musashi1> thanks
<MitchM> we're on the topic "Ubuntu Teams"
<nealmcb> best way to dive in is to come to the UDS next month in Boston, and the FOSScamp the weekend before it
<MitchM> *nods*
<Arch_Rusher> ohayo jim-san
<MitchM> well; i'll try and gather some easy 'jump in' projects and post them to the list
<musashi1> ohaiyo
<MitchM> Topic -> MitchM: 'About Ubuntu' Presentation
* nealmcb IM's musashi with the minutes so far from mootbot
<MitchM> :)
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  MitchM: 'About Ubuntu' Presentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  MitchM: 'About Ubuntu' Presentation
* nealmcb notes that we're moving right along!!
<MitchM> I was going to hold a presentation in one of our conference rooms at work -> 'about ubuntu'
<MitchM> There are numerous people here that have grabbed a cd off my desk
<MitchM> and loaded Ubuntu at home with a 'Wow - that really is neat' repsonse
* nealmcb cheers for MitchM
<Arch_Rusher> did they have beryl?
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: nay :P
<musashi1> i'd like pursue the library presentation to "normal" folk
<MitchM> i'd like to kick-off the Ubuntu world at work by holding a 'presentation' for those interested
<MitchM> get a few loco members here to maybe present why they use ubuntu
<MitchM> and answer questions from my co-workers
<Arch_Rusher> garr, wish me could do that at work
<MitchM> let them know about the list
<MitchM> and so forth
<Arch_Rusher> good idea mitch
<musashi1> MitchM: aren't your co-workers geeks already?
<MitchM> musashi1: not ubuntu geeks :)
<MitchM> most of them use redhat or its derivatives
<musashi1> but very computer savvy
<Arch_Rusher> Windows 2k3 admins
<MitchM> aye.
<Arch_Rusher> the power of gui;s
<MitchM> most of them have 'computer experience'
<nealmcb> cool - people can follow along with the minutes of this meeting in real time at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071004_1807.html
<musashi1> so it's more of a ubuntu is better than suse/redhat because...
<MitchM> but not many of them with unix/linux
<MitchM> musashi1: or ubuntu is better than windows because...
<Arch_Rusher> if ubuntu had fedoras AD, we could market ubuntu easier
<musashi1> okay
<MitchM> so if anyone is interested; i'd enjoy a couple volunteers
<Arch_Rusher> do you work weekends?
<Arch_Rusher> if not, dam
<MitchM> i do (but noone else here does) :)
<bryangWFH> where is your work MitchM ?
<Arch_Rusher> I can visit on a weekend
<MitchM> I-36 and 104th
* nealmcb is beaten to the punch
<MitchM> between boulder and denver (in westminster)
* bryangWFH probably could slip away for such a jaunt
<kweinert> just down the road from me
<MitchM> excellent :)
<nealmcb> Arch_Rusher: ajmitch from the server team is working on packaging FDS
<kweinert> 108th/Wadsworth
<Arch_Rusher> ty nealmcb
<nealmcb> MitchM: I'd be happy to help present
* musashi1 would help but hard to get away
<MitchM> awesome ;)
<Arch_Rusher> i be happy to present on a weekend
<nealmcb> how many folks might show up?
<musashi1> ditto
<Arch_Rusher> koko! I will help on weekend
<MitchM> may get 50+ (in a couple sessions)
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: not sure we could do it on a weekend
<MitchM> :(
<gardenleve1> I don't think I can speak knowledgebly enough to do a presentation
<MitchM> so i'll put nealmcb, kweinert and bryangWFH as +1 ?
<musashi1> gardenleve1: but that is a perfect example
<MitchM> gardenleve1: well - doesn't mean you can't answer questions :)
* bryangWFH nods
* kweinert nods
<musashi1> why would an average (no offence) use ubuntu/linux
* musashi1 is also average
<musashi1> or in this group below average
<nealmcb> [ACTION]  nealmcb, kweinert and bryangWFH will help mitchm put on a presentation for his work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nealmcb, kweinert and bryangWFH will help mitchm put on a presentation for his work
<MitchM> excellent; i'll get details and contact you all through the list :)
<MitchM> Topic -> Library Take-Over
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  Library Take-Over
<MootBot> New Topic:  Library Take-Over
<acomer> did we settle on the next meeting time? sorry stepped away
<MitchM> There was a suggestion at the Panera meeting about goign to a library and placing 'free instruction' or some-sort
<MitchM> acomer: next meeting was voided; we'll use the list is we need to gather again :)
* musashi1 is interested in this
<MitchM> in the hope to get 'average joe' to sit and lean about Ubuntu
<MitchM> Who would be interested in spending an afternoon or so at a local library to 'teach' ?
<MitchM> (Teach Ubuntu)
<nealmcb> [ACTION]  (on meeting scheduling) the idea of another planning meeting for the gutsy party was voided; we'll use the list as we need to gather again
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (on meeting scheduling) the idea of another planning meeting for the gutsy party was voided; we'll use the list as we need to gather again
<musashi1> me
<gardenleve1> I'd give it a shot, but have no interest in organizing it...
* bryangWFH raises hand again, but after Nov would work better for me (if on a weekend)
<musashi1> i'll organize locally - i.e. fort collins, loveland
<musashi1> or try to at least
<MitchM> *nods* Perhaps at the Release Party we can discuss some actions to take? Maybe make a couple signs or get in touch with a library to 'overtake their computers' ?
<MitchM> and see what type of response we get
<nealmcb> I'm not quite clear on the proposal
<musashi1> i'll contact FC before then and "feel them out"
<MitchM> proposal: Place a sign in a library stating 'Free Linux Instruction on such and such date'
<MitchM> we come in on that date to whomever is interested
<MitchM> and live-boot the library's machine
<MitchM> (or bring an Ubuntu Laptop)
<musashi1> or the attendees' computers if they bring them
<MitchM> and answer questions they have / show them ubuntu
<MitchM> more of a 'community outreach' proposal
<MitchM> which i'd be interested in doing
<nealmcb> I think the boulder library has wifi, and maybe others.  I doubt we could boot their computers, but could use meeting space there and advertise a help session
<bryangWFH> so instead of install-fest, a "live-in" ;)
<musashi1> and a bed-in in hospitals :)
<MitchM> good slogan !
<MitchM> :)
<gardenleve1> nealmcb is right, the're not going to like the live boot idea, we need laptops
<MitchM> aye; well - I have a laptop and a projector
<musashi1> depends on their setup and level of knowledge
<musashi1> low knowledge = scared
<nealmcb> +1 for live-in
<MitchM> we could overtake the kids 'reading circle' :D
<MitchM> +1
<nealmcb> tell them to bring their own and live-boot
<MitchM> nealmcb++ :)
<musashi1> +1
<MitchM> In boulder we could probably draw a fair college prospective crowd
<MitchM> :)
<musashi1> nealmcb: uni library?? possible??
<nealmcb> hold one on campus also - we need campus contacts
<musashi1> or other local
<MitchM> yeah; definetly need campus contacts.
<nealmcb> CS dept
<kweinert> maybe - we didn't have many/any students that joined the lug when we were meeting there
<MitchM> hmm.
<MitchM> well something to think about none the less
<kweinert> we no longer meet on campus because the one person that was in the lug graduated
<MitchM> perhaps an 'extended goal'
* nealmcb has some contacts at CU
<kweinert> true, just giving a bit of experience
<nealmcb> who would volunteer to organize something?
<MitchM> my plate will be full for a while now
<musashi1> locally yes, in boulder no
<MitchM> perhaps something we can discuss at the release party also?
<musashi1> good idea
<acomer> what kind of initiative is there (if any) to promote ubuntu to businesses, universities, schools? while i have no objection to a grassroots effort to teach grandma  and neighbors about ubuntu at a library, it seems to me that getting students and small business to adopt ubuntu would go a lot further towards widespread adoption. I'm not saying i have a clue how to do that, just trying to understand if that angle is already covered somehow
<bryangWFH> great comment, acomer
<MitchM> acomer: the library group would also target college kids i believe - but valid point.
<musashi1> acomer: only if there is a grassroots movement in that area
<musashi1> my take at least
<musashi1> it's all grassroots for the most part
<MitchM> Maybe we can organize a 'promote ubuntu' at local computer stores?
* musashi1 did that
<MitchM> We go in with a stack of cd's (and a flyer / cd tray) and ask them to just place the items on their counter
<musashi1> they have an ubuntu imac for sale
<musashi1> or had
<MitchM> we grab a snapshot of the setup
<MitchM> and say thanks
<nealmcb> [ACTION]  at the release party we'll look for volunteers to organize a "live-in" at a library or on campus or at local businesses or stores
<MootBot> ACTION received:  at the release party we'll look for volunteers to organize a "live-in" at a library or on campus or at local businesses or stores
<MitchM> *nods*
<MitchM> well; that's all i had on my list of things to discuss
<MitchM> anyone feel free to offer the next topic :)
<musashi1> there was a list?
<nealmcb> [idea]  live-in means in-person meeting with live-cd demos
<MootBot> IDEA received:  live-in means in-person meeting with live-cd demos
<MitchM> musashi1: there's always a list ;)
<Arch_Rusher> [idea]  meetings with presenations and tutorials
<MootBot> IDEA received:  meetings with presenations and tutorials
<musashi1> good to know
<Arch_Rusher> [idea]  scripting tutorials
<MootBot> IDEA received:  scripting tutorials
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  demo of #ubuntu-meeting facilities: ubotu and mootbot
<MootBot> New Topic:  demo of #ubuntu-meeting facilities: ubotu and mootbot
<musashi1> nealmcb: yes
<MitchM> excellent topic :)
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<nealmcb> so here you all are, in #ubuntu-meeting .  woot!
* MitchM gives 3 cheers
<Arch_Rusher> arr
<tiborio> :))
<nealmcb> come here and hang-out to see the heart of the action
<nealmcb> watch this:
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 05 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 11:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 06:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 10:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 09:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team
<nealmcb> you see that the "ubotu" bot can help translate time zones
<nealmcb> try it yourself
<MitchM> @schedule tokyo
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Tokyo: 06 Oct 05:00: MOTU | 07 Oct 02:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 21:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 12 Oct 00:00: Community Development Team | 17 Oct 01:00: Kernel Team
<MitchM> :)
<nealmcb> see more info at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<nealmcb> ubotu also knows about bugs - way cool:  bug 112516
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112516 in ubiquity "ubuquity using over 2 GB during apt upgrade due to unused packages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112516
<nealmcb> !webmin
<ubotu> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system
<Arch_Rusher> that is true
<gardenleve1> What about thoughts reorganizing the loco?
<Arch_Rusher> very true
<MitchM> gardenleve1: perhaps a better idea for the release party with the majority present?
<nealmcb> gardenleve1: we'll do that topic next
<nealmcb> but there is more!
<nealmcb> packages....
<nealmcb> !info python
<ubotu> python: An interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version). In component main, is important. Version 2.5.1-0ubuntu3 (feisty), package size 137 kB, installed size 600 kB
<MitchM> !info rkhunter
<ubotu> rkhunter: rootkit, backdoor, sniffer and exploit scanner. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.9-3 (feisty), package size 133 kB, installed size 528 kB
<MitchM> !info denyhosts
<ubotu> denyhosts: an utility to help sys admins thwart ssh hackers. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.6-1 (feisty), package size 60 kB, installed size 412 kB
<MitchM> :) both good packages
<nealmcb> !help
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<Arch_Rusher> can you just use hosts.deny ?
<Arch_Rusher> that worked for me
<MitchM> denyhosts adds ip entries of people who try and 'brute-force' your ssh connection to hosts.deny
<Arch_Rusher> oh wow
<nealmcb> and you've already seen the mootbot demo, live in action!
<MitchM> a good program when you have a 'public server' and have to open ssh to everyone :)
<Arch_Rusher> ty mitchm
<MitchM> *nods* :)
<musashi1> what about the scribes stuff we mentioned. how do that happen?
<nealmcb> any questions about #ubuntu-meeting or ubotu or mootbot?
* MitchM head is full
<MitchM> :)
<Arch_Rusher> arr
* musashi1 must step AFK for a bit. sorry
<nealmcb> go visit that url I pasted with the notes-in-progress: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071004_1807.html
<nealmcb> incredible...
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: ye be ta' scurviest lad to lay eyes o' dar seven seas!
<Arch_Rusher> lmfao
<nealmcb> at the end I think the links at the left (timestamps) will be linked to the actual transcript of the session
<nealmcb> ahh - they are already...
<Arch_Rusher> arr looks purdy like me trasure
<gardenleve1> And we can have this in #ubuntu-colorado if this room is busy?
<MitchM> very awesome nealmcb
<Arch_Rusher> Good job neal!
<MitchM> :)
<Arch_Rusher> gives neal 1000 expeirence points
<Arch_Rusher> How do you do what musahi just did
<nealmcb> so when you use mootbot as the "chair", look in the window it opens up and follow the link to the notes and log for the meeting and share that with folks, especially if they join late
<MitchM> [idea]  Neal shares info about the Ubuntu Bots; their functions and best practices
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Neal shares info about the Ubuntu Bots; their functions and best practices
<Arch_Rusher> * musashi1 must step AFK for a bit. sorry  <--how do you talk like this
<nealmcb> Arch_Rusher: say "/me does something"
<Arch_Rusher> oh ty
<Arch_Rusher> arr many thanks
* Arch_Rusher listens to nealmcb 
<nealmcb> it is called "emoting"
<Arch_Rusher> well call me emo , im hearting
<nealmcb> (at least a decade ago in diversity university moo)
<MitchM> well; anyone have any other topics to discuss?
<MitchM> Vote -> Close Meeting?
<Arch_Rusher> people to tach bash scripting
<nealmcb> organizational plans?
<Arch_Rusher> at meetings
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: i'll be more than happy to help you - msg me sometime
<Arch_Rusher> ok ty
<MitchM> nealmcb: too few present to discuss?
<MitchM> *shrugs*
<nealmcb> I'm not sure about the protocol for using this #ubuntu-meetings space - you can schedule it and your meeting will show up on the fridge I guess.  where is rinchen when we need him?
<gardenleve1> Are there any plans for the release party yet?
<MitchM> Arch_Rusher: topic in #bash will have good links for you
<Rinchen> yes?
<nealmcb> another ubuntu day is coming up with lots of irc demos
* Arch_Rusher thankks MitchM 
<nealmcb> (week?)
<Rinchen> nealmcb, you had a question?
<MitchM> gardenleve1: my casa -> Oct 19th, Friday 6pm
<nealmcb> Rinchen: ahh - the power of naming...
<nealmcb> do you know the protocol for scheduling this channel?
<nealmcb> we just jumped in here since the next meeting wasn't for 3 hours....
<gardenleve1> MitchM: Are we going to leave it at that? I'd kind of like to see plans for a presentation (on Gutsy)
<nealmcb> anyone know when ubuntu demo week (or whatever the name is) is?
<Rinchen> nealmcb, you can schedule this via the Fridge calendar
<nealmcb> any ubuntu-related activity is welcome?
<nealmcb> and impromptu meetings are ok?
<MitchM> gardenleve1: no problem on you making those plans ;)
<nealmcb> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<nealmcb> (it is in the /topic here also)
<MitchM> gardenleve1: we can whip something together maybe ?
<nealmcb> MitchM: you have a projector for the party and a place where folks could crowd in and watch?
<MitchM> nealmcb: hmm -> i'll try and set something up :)
<MitchM> there are a couple places that may suffice... with some arrangement
<nealmcb> [TOPIC]  more ideas for the gutsy party
<MootBot> New Topic:  more ideas for the gutsy party
<nealmcb> food? beverages?
<MitchM> i'll take care of both;
<nealmcb> !!
<acomer> :)
<nealmcb> vegetarian?
<kweinert> +1
<MitchM> oh. good point;
<MitchM> everyone will be eating dinner there?
* nealmcb brings his family
<nealmcb> :-)
<MitchM> hehe
<tiborio> MitchM: Shouldn't we be pitching in? Money, food?
<MitchM> or will everyone want to snack throughout?
<MitchM> tiborio: i wont turn away your money if that's what you're asking?
<acomer> good point neal - is it geeks only or families too
<MitchM> :D
<tiborio> MitchM: Maybe my sister can pay "in services"?
<MitchM> *chuckles*
<MitchM> i have a lady-companion
<nealmcb> MitchM: you're offers are very generous but we don't want to over do it and burn you out :-)  So please be clear about what you are happy with and what would be overkill.
<MitchM> but - if she does AJAX programming maybe we can work something out :)
* nealmcb lol
<tiborio> MitchM: Yes she does and she is 67, too!
<MitchM> [IDEA]  MitchM will provide snacks and a main course / drinks. Please feel free to bring food yourself and/or donate some cash.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  MitchM will provide snacks and a main course / drinks. Please feel free to bring food yourself and/or donate some cash.
<nealmcb> s/you're/your ...
<gardenleve1> What else would people like to see? Presentation(s), food, drinks, short meeting (where our Team Lead will retire)
<Arch_Rusher> funny hat?
<Arch_Rusher> dictator hat
<MitchM> :p
<nealmcb> for me the most important thing is time and space to hang out and learn.  I love food but would go even if there was no food or drink
* Arch_Rusher agrees with nealmcb 
<MitchM> well - i'll try and work out everything later today/tomorrow; and i'll post concerns/details to the forum tomorrow for all to review
<nealmcb> ubucon is my favorite activity (and IETF meetings....) - food for the mind
<Arch_Rusher> hey nealmcb remmebre that book that they gave away a few blug mettings ago? That cost $50!
<nealmcb> I'd suggest being able to advertise a bit of a presentation on gutsy at a set time, after folks can have showed up .  then it is easier to advertise to newbiews
<MitchM> sounds like a plan :)
<nealmcb> yeah - a lug can easily get free books from publishers to give away, IF they get folks to contribute reviews of books.  even simple paragraph-long reviews...
<gardenleve1> What if we have the presentation at 7 or 7:30, give people time ot show up and get settled
<MitchM> 7:30 -> +1
<nealmcb> and who wants to do it?
<MitchM> nealmcb +1
<MitchM> :D
<Arch_Rusher> +!
<Arch_Rusher> +!1
<Arch_Rusher> +1
<MitchM> lol
<Arch_Rusher> there we go
<Arch_Rusher> arr me keybord will be sent to depths of the ocean
<gardenleve1> Lets ask for a voulnteer on the list, somebody who's used it a lot. If nobody voulnteers one of us can do it.
<MitchM> +1
<nealmcb> I can talk a bit about how to get involved after that - maybe 5 minutes.  we also want time for folks to split up, chat, demo with each other, relax, etc
<nealmcb> I wouldn't be the one to talk about gutsy
<nealmcb> I haven't tried it yet....
<MitchM> nor i
<Arch_Rusher> i can talk about o'gutsy
<kweinert> I have on one box and now I can't update things - hangs with bluez-utils :(
<Arch_Rusher> It is a great advacement for ubuntu users
<MitchM> [IDEA]  Arch_Rusher has volunteered to do a gutsy presentation.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Arch_Rusher has volunteered to do a gutsy presentation.
<nealmcb> Arch_Rusher: I thought you used arch....
<Arch_Rusher> that mootbot text seems really ironic?
<Arch_Rusher> lol
<MitchM> :P
<Arch_Rusher> arch user gives presentation on gutsy
<Arch_Rusher> I used gutsy for a week and was happy
<Arch_Rusher> checked out the new features
<Arch_Rusher> and played with it
<Arch_Rusher> I am qualified to speak on it
<MitchM> excellent.
<Arch_Rusher> based on no qualificatiosn
<MitchM> i look forward to it :)
<Arch_Rusher> he he
<gardenleve1> I think it would be neat to show of 2 installs, a basic (clean) install, then one thats beefed up and running compiz-fusion, just a thought
<MitchM> gardenleve1: bring the compiz-fusion laptop?
<MitchM> [IDEA]  Laptop presentation of a 'beefed-up' Ubuntu Install (compiz-fusion etc)
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Laptop presentation of a 'beefed-up' Ubuntu Install (compiz-fusion etc)
<gardenleve1> Sorry, I have an intel card. I can bring a clean install
<MitchM> *nods*
<nealmcb> discussion of server installs with the new tasksel options (e.g. print server) would be nice
* musashi1 is back and caught up
<nealmcb> [idea]  new server options also
<MootBot> IDEA received:  new server options also
<MitchM> beat me to it ;)
<MitchM> [IDEA]  Some form of 'freestyle presentation time' -> Whiteboard?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Some form of 'freestyle presentation time' -> Whiteboard?
<MitchM> I can present on Bash scripting, Make scripting and what-not
<nealmcb> anybody know apparmor?
<MitchM> neg
<nealmcb> or the samba server install
<nealmcb> desktop search?
<gardenleve1> I can learn all about desktop search, if know one else wants to do it.
<MitchM> *shakes head*
<musashi1> we all just thinking now?
<MitchM> musashi1: seems so
<nealmcb> avahi demo....
<musashi1> backing up a bit then, what about presentations to schools/dist
<MitchM> i'd personaly avoid that; schools are so 'locked in' its hard to do anything with them
<MitchM> convert them outside of work :)
<musashi1> actually, i have a school wanting info
<musashi1> bryangWFH: is going to talk with them but i bet there are others
<MitchM> well excellent; i'm in for open-minded school's
<nealmcb> musashi1: if you have listeners, we have presenters
<MitchM> [IDEA]  '
<MootBot> IDEA received:  '
<musashi1> can we drum up more listeners
<MitchM> gr.
<nealmcb> like our presentation, coming up, to mitch's work
<musashi1> i only have so many contacts
<musashi1> and many of you likely have some too
<nealmcb> [topic]  presentations to schools/districts
<MootBot> New Topic:  presentations to schools/districts
<bryangWFH> making a youtube video wouldn't be a bad idea either (to have as a reference)
<bryangWFH> or a series of short topic ones, anyway
<nealmcb> showing them what is up in catalan(?) or portland would be cool.
<nealmcb> I'd love to see an OLPC demo - some of the local python gurus and others are involved with it
<bryangWFH> and maybe the intel alternative one as well
<nealmcb> didn't intel join olpc also?
* bryangWFH shrugs
<nealmcb> anything more on this topic?
<nealmcb> any other topics?
<musashi1> maybe we can get people in white shirts and black pants to go door to door
<bryangWFH> lol
<nealmcb> from the CULT?
<MitchM> :P
<musashi1> exactly
<musashi1> we need evagelists
<MitchM> or maybe we can get people in Ubuntu Shirts, and No pants?
<musashi1> could work
<MitchM> oh no; then we'd be back at our first release :D
<nealmcb> [idea]  Colorado Ubuntu Linux Team (CULT) members go door-to-door in professional attire
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Colorado Ubuntu Linux Team (CULT) members go door-to-door in professional attire
<acomer> hmm
<musashi1> hello, may i borrow your computer for a moment. you will love this.
<nealmcb> "we'd like to first share the Code of Conduct" with you." :-)
<gardenleve1> Sorry guys, got to go get lunch before the game starts. Go Rockies.
<MitchM> 'im from the local college, and I'd like to show you how you can save yourself computer headache'
<nealmcb> [topic]  offical team name - for web page, wiki, etc.
<MootBot> New Topic:  offical team name - for web page, wiki, etc.
<nealmcb> [idea]  Colorado Ubuntu Linux Team
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Colorado Ubuntu Linux Team
<MitchM> gardenleve1: hasta!
<musashi1> rockies? is that in the repos
* MitchM must vacate soon also
<nealmcb> ok we can come back to that...
<nealmcb> good meeting!!
<MitchM> in fact; back to work for me
<nealmcb> any last thoughts?
<MitchM> If you want alcohol - BYOB !
<musashi1> what? no keg?
<MitchM> *chuckles*
<MitchM> i knew you'd jump on that musashi1
<MitchM> if(musashi1 == "predictable"){ laugh(); }
<MitchM> ;)
<acomer> i plan to stop at left hand on the way
<MitchM> good man acomer :)
<acomer> those growlers wont go far though :(
<MitchM> i may have a keg of budlight; but with all the food/non-alch beverages - it may be too much :P
<nealmcb> I don't know if we want to prove that ubunteros can also get drunk and throw up all over the house...
<MitchM> *nods*
<MitchM> byob.
<nealmcb> byob sounds good to me
<MitchM> :)
<Arch_Rusher> ARRRR BRING DA RUM!
<MitchM> RUM!
<musashi1> bring your own babe? sweet
<Arch_Rusher> lol
<nealmcb> organic dark local beer :-)
<MitchM> bring your own batteries
<musashi1> so it's one of THOSE parties
<nealmcb> expensive enough that you cherish it :-)
<Arch_Rusher> bring your own propiratary drivers
<MitchM> lmao
<musashi1> lol
<MitchM> i'm back to work
<musashi1> thanks all
<MitchM> cheers all; see you guys Oct 19th ;)
<tiborio> say "/me bows, thanks all and quietly leaves the building right behind Elvis"
<Arch_Rusher> l8r mate
<musashi1> sorry i was AFK a bit
<nealmcb> cheers folks!
* Arch_Rusher bows
<musashi1> so the whole thing got sent to scribes?
<nealmcb> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:45.
<nealmcb> musashi1: check out that url - scribing happened automatically in real time
<musashi1> it's really short
<nealmcb> as the world watched!!
<nealmcb> musashi1: with links to the discussion
<musashi1> mine is not all there
<musashi1> refreshing doesn't change
<nealmcb> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071004_1807.html
<nealmcb> complete with attendees!!!
<musashi1> i'll check it later but for me it's about 20 lines long
<nealmcb> yeah - that's the main actions
<nealmcb> minutes should be short, and with a transcript you can go as deep as you like
<musashi1> ah, i see how it works
<musashi1> thanks
<Arch_Rusher> good meeting guys
<Arch_Rusher> i missed 90%of it, i work in a call center
<musashi1> take your phone off the hook
<Arch_Rusher> but the upcoming event sounds fun
* musashi1 missed a lot too - i work in a school
<Arch_Rusher> I love to be a little gutsy and talk about gutsy
<musashi1> already installed on one computer
<Arch_Rusher> were alll a liuttle gutsy to sing about gutsy
<musashi1> itching to put on desktop
<Arch_Rusher> I got some local ubuntu news
<Arch_Rusher> I helped this guy move his website from Windows server to a ubuntu 7.04 server install
<Arch_Rusher> he is happy
<Arch_Rusher> That is 1 less windows box
<nealmcb> hmmm - uds boston is not on the fridge...
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 05 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 11:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 06:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 10:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 09:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-05
<dthacker> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 05 Oct 15:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 07:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 11:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 10:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team
<kraut> moin
<profoX`> Hi everyone. Can someone tell me when the next Community Council meeting takes place?
<profoX`> I can't find it in the Fridge Event Calendar, and the wikipage says "next meeting: 27 september" :-)
<popey> profoX`: if it's not on the wiki then it's not scheduled yet
<profoX`> popey: oh okay, thank you :)
<popey> np
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team
<mdz> Mithrandir: did MootBot give you output? it's not in the output directory linked from the wiki
<Mithrandir> mdz: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.log.20071004_1705.html (or http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071004_1705.html)
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<jpatrick> isn't the MOTU meeting now?
<pochu> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Oct 20:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team
<geser> jpatrick: in 45 minutes
<jpatrick> ah, +2 here then
<norsetto> * cough * * cough *
<geser> let's see how else is here for a MOTU meeting
* persia is present
* norsetto ponders who the chairperson is
<persia> I'll chair, if nobody else wants it.
<geser> norsetto: let's see first if there are people attending the meeting
<juliux> hi geser
<norsetto> geser: do we need a quorum?
<geser> norsetto: no, but without people attending a meeting is useless
<geser> Hi juliux
<ScottK> Hello.
<geser> Hi ScottK
<norsetto> geser: then, yes, we need it
<persia> norsetto: It's more a matter of the topics of discussion.  For the fixed topics, it's usually safe to agree even without many people.
<geser> is the agenda uptodate?
<geser> the page still lists sep 21st as date
<persia> I think the agenda is from the last meeting.  ScottK: is there more PPA discussion needed?
<ScottK> No.  I don't think so.
<ScottK> That does sound like from the last meeting.
* persia updates the agenda
<ScottK> One PPA issue that I will mention since people are here is that currently if an orig.tar.gz has been uploaded to a PPA, Soyuz will think it has it already, not fetch it, and then fail to find it for a sync.
<ScottK> So if a version has been in a PPA, syncs don't work out so well at the moment.
* pochu has experienced that :(
<pochu> btw hello everybody :)
<persia> ScottK: Surely that's a bug.
<ScottK> persia: It is.
<ScottK> But we've probably got it with us until after the Gutsy release, so FYI.
<geser> ScottK: does this also affect new revisions or only new upstream versions?
<ScottK> geser: I think it's just new upstream versions.
<ScottK> If soyuz actually has the orig.tar.gz available it's fine.
<geser> is a workaround known? in case one needs to sync a new version
<ScottK> pitti has a script he's handed out to make the correct .changes package and upload it.  It's on one of his web pages.
<ScottK> geser: It's the same one I used (when I shouldn't have) when I stepped on your websvn sync request.
<persia> OK.  Welcome to the MOTU Meeting for 5th October 2007.  The Agenda is available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings.
<persia> Any volunteers to take / publish minutes?
* pochu can, although his english isn't good...
<persia> Thanks pochu
<persia> OK.  First up: other business.  Anyone have anything they'd like to add to the agenda now?
<ScottK> persia: I can whine and complain for a while if that would be helpful?
<norsetto> hehehe
<persia> ScottK: If you like, but given the attendance, the mailing lists might be a better forum :)
<pochu> ScottK: that would mean more work for me on the minutes? no then! ;-)
<norsetto> there is something we recently discussed with dholbach
<norsetto> about the mentoring program
<persia> norsetto: could you summarise it?
<norsetto> sure, we would like to make the point of the situation
<norsetto> how it is going, ways to improve, what we want to do in the future
<norsetto> we would like to have a dedicated meeting to it, so I thought its a good idea to mention it here
<norsetto> in case any of you is interested
<persia> norsetto: That would probably benefit from some advertisement.  Perhaps it could be added to the agenda for next time?
<norsetto> persia: if it helps, sure
<persia> norsetto: if there's no time pressure, it's best to put things on in advance so that interested people can be sure to make it.
<persia> Anyone else have any other items?
<pochu> I'm wondering whether it's still interesting to make a meeting every 2 weeks. Maybe they should be every 3 weeks or once a month, since the agenda is usually a bit empty... WDYT?
<pochu> Or maybe we should give a beer to everybody which attends the meetings... although then ScottK would always be drunk :)
<pkern> Hah.
<ScottK> pochu: If it was Scotch, sure.
<bddebian> w00t, I'll show up more often! :-)
<ScottK> pochu: Be sure to get that in the minutes.
<pochu> wow, it seems to work :-)
* norsetto goes and fetch a bottle of ebradour
<ScottK> I think we should stay with every two weeks.  It's a little slow now just before release, but once we start on Hardy stuff I think there will be more to argue about <<<< discuss.
<geser> I think too we should stay at two weeks, I doubt that 4 weeks will get more topics to the agenda and more attendees
<norsetto> an hour every two weeks seems very reasonable to me, mind you that with the rotating timetable you would not be able to attend them all
<persia> Based on discussion, let's stick with two weeks for now.
<persia> Any other other business?
<pochu> Sure, sounds ok. But don't forget the free beer if you come to the meetings!
<geser> +1 :)
<pkern> I guess we should discuss the details with dholbach ;)
<persia> Next on our agenda: agree on date & time of next meeting.
<persia> Given the previous discussion, 19th October is the candidate date.  What time?
<geser> +/- 8h?
<persia> geser: Sounds good.
<persia> Please vote for preferences between 04:00 and 12:00
<norsetto> 12:00
<geser> 12:00
<pochu> 12:00
<ScottK> 12:00 (this is UTC, right?)
<persia> ScottK: Yes.
<persia> Anyone for 04:00?
<ScottK> persia: Of course those who would prefer that likely aren't here today.
<geser> TheMuso mail about meeting times didn't get many answers
<norsetto> scottK: can't we propose a time and ask in the list to confirm it (or otherwise)?
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> Just saying.
<norsetto> scottk: quite truly too
<persia> OK.  Next meeting with be 19th October, 12:00 UTC unless there is dissension after posting to the mailing list.  Any volunteers to make the announcement?
<pochu> I can do it with the minutes.
<persia> pochu: Thanks.
<persia> Next agenda item: Next REVU day.  As this is for Hardy, I think it's safe to skip.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<persia> Next agenda item: next Q&A session time.  Any volunteers to run one?
<ScottK> How's the UUS queue looking these days?
<ScottK> persia: I volunteer dholbach.
<norsetto> reasonable
<pochu> lol
<ScottK> He's the one that wanted to keep them going.  Looking at the logs of the last one there didn't seem to be much except a new Canonical guy looking for a rubber stamp.
<persia> ScottK: Great.  You'll be in charge of recruiting him, and getting an annoucement to the mailing list?
<ScottK> persia: No.  If it's up to me, I'd just cancel the whole thing.
<ScottK> Just have pochu put it in the minutes.
<ScottK> We'll get told if we were wrong.
<ScottK> He didn't want to do it next time, he should have come to the meeting.
<persia> OK.  If there's no volunteer to run the session, let's not schedule one, and ask for volunteers to announce any ad-hoc session to the mailing list.
<ScottK> I'm perfectly fine with that.
<ScottK> My vote was to do away with them.
<persia> Anyone have any final items for discussion?
<persia> Thank you all for coming to the meeting.
<ajmitch> oh, there's a meeting on, what a shame
<norsetto> thank you persia for chairing
<geser> ajmitch: there was a meeting
<mralphabet> @schedule
<pkern> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 05 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-06
<kraut> moin
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<episodic> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-07
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-09-30
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<TheMuso> Hey amachu.
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi
<amachu> elky: persia: lifeless:
<amachu> Hi all
<persia> Good evening.
<amachu> and where are zakame and belutz?
 * persia loads the agenda
<amachu> persia: I just dropped a mail to you :-)
<amachu> luckily not as I feared
<elky> hi
<persia> amachu: Something I need to hunt down before the meeting?
<amachu> elky: Hi
<amachu> nope, I feared dis-conection and delay due to that
<persia> Odd.  Although I'm sure the meeting is now, the wiki page claims it's tomorrow.
<amachu> Oh ho!
<TheMuso> Sounds like a date mixup.
<amachu> TheMuso: yep!
<persia> Yeah.  It says "01-October-2008", and it's currently "30-September-2008".
<amachu> thats my fault
<amachu> mixed up the date
<TheMuso> Doesn't matter, we've put 2 and 2 together.
<persia> Perhaps we'll have to hunt down the applicants.  I only hope they are prepared.
<persia> None are in-channel now :(
<amachu> :(
<elky> hew is online in -au
<elky> but... i have no idea who he is :-/
<persia> I've seen Hew in #ubuntu-bugs a fair bit.
<TheMuso> He appears to be in #ubuntu-motu also.
<persia> OK.  Any ideas for lousyguara or svaksha?
<elky> persia, i havent seen svaksha for age
<elky> ages*
<amachu> svaksha appear to have some time problem
<amachu> hmm..
<persia> Nor I lousygarua, although it used to be often.
<elky> she's been on freenode for the whole of 20 seconds this month afaict
<amachu> Hew is in #ubuntu-au
<elky> amachu, hew is here now
<amachu> Hew: Hey :-)
<Hew> Hi everyone
<TheMuso> Evening he.
<TheMuso> evening Hew.
<amachu> Hew: are you prepared for today?
<amachu> Sorry for the confusion, the wiki states 01-Oct-08
<Hew> Yes, that is confusing :P
<Hew> I am prepared nonetheless
<amachu> as per routine its tueday, today
<Hew> ah, ok
<amachu> thats great...
<amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: persia: shall we start then..
<TheMuso> amachu: Yes, lets.
<amachu> Hew: Sorry for the confusion again. Please go ahead introducing yourself and your contributions for Ubuntu..
<elky> yes, waiting
<Hew> No worries. I'm Hew McLachlan from Sydney. I've been using Ubuntu since Dapper and have been contributing in various areas since the beginning of this year.
<Hew> I've mainly been involved with bug triage. I started in the Ubuntu BugSquad and I'm now a member of Ubuntu Bug Control.
<Hew> I believe I've made a significant contribution to Ubuntu through the number and quality of bugs I have triaged, as well as the other areas I've been involved in such as support and reporting bugs, and recently, en_AU translations.
<Hew> I started cleaning up packages like xsane which had been neglected for a long time and were full of New/Undecided bugs, so that gave me a good start in learning how to triage from the bottom up.
<amachu> that great that you file five bugs  a day. Apart from that would like to know your association with Austraian LoCo too..
<Hew> I haven't had much to do with the Australia LoCo, apart from making the occasional passing comment in #ubuntu-au about a discussion.
<Hew> I'm most active in #ubuntu-bugs
<amachu> ok
<persia> Hew: You mention a long-term goal of having Ubuntu be 100% free software.  Do you think this is best pursued through work to free existing software, or to find replacement software?
<Hew> persia: A combination of both. If you look at the AMD/ATI situation, they are now developing over source drivers themselves which is a great success for FOSS. It will be hard to do the same with Nvidia, but by developing open source 3D Nvidia drivers I think will put pressure on Nvidia to produce something themselves.
<persia> Hew: Have you been involved in any of these discussions?
<Hew> persia: Not as part of Ubuntu, no. I keep an eye on what's happening and discuss it offline though. I would be interested in getting involved and having a say.
<Hew> I'm not a developer so I don't really have technical solutions to these problems.
<amachu> elky: TheMuso: questions?
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<amachu> and Hew do you have people here for you?
<elky> Hew, have you considered getting into packaging at all?
<elky> whups, sorry amachu
<Hew> amachu: No I don't.
<Hew> elky: Yes I have. I submitted a patch to a debian/control file for prboom.
<elky> is that part of a larger plan?
<Hew> elky: I've also played around with pbuilder and looked through the MOTU contributing wiki pages
<Hew> elky: Yes, I've thought about maybe joining backports or something
<Hew> elky: I think I've got my name on a couple of packages in Intrepid
<elky> which ones?
<Hew> elky: hmm, fretsonfire from memory..
 * Hew has a quick look
<persia> Hew: Given the packages for which you've submitted patches, if you are interested in development, you may also want to get in touch with the Games team.
<Hew> persia: Yea, I'm able to do things like modifying the debian/control files, but C coding is a bit over my head for now. I'll look into it :-)
<Hew> fretsonfire 1.2.512.dfsg-3 has my name as Changed-By
<amachu> and elky appear to be in your time zone ;-)
<TheMuso> As am I.
<Hew> and same with game-data-packager 18 :P That's the two.
<amachu> is lifeless there?
<elky> amachu, unfortunately there is only vague familiarity with the nick from him sitting in the loco channel. other than that i dont really know anything about hew
<elky> amachu, lifeless is idle 35 minutes
<amachu> ok
<persia> Well, I always like testmonials or support from other members, which we don't have today.  I'm tempted to +1 based on at least three months of activity within ubuntu-bugcontrol, and some previous activity, and I like the work with en_au translations, but I'm still a little borderline.
<persia> Could others who use en_AU comment on how useful it is to have en_AU fully translated?
<amachu> Hew: is it because that you are here today
<amachu> and you couldn't bring people to support, since the wiki said its tomorrow?
<TheMuso> persia: I must admit I don't really pay attention to translations, at it usually comes down to slight differences in spelling, so don't bother checking.
<elky> persia, from my understanding of en_au, it's only a matter of small differences such as trash/rubbish/garbage
<elky> and location names possibly
<Hew> amachu: No, I don't have specific people for support. I generally just ask questions to the channel and give answers back.
<persia> Hmm.  I'm maybe +0.6 then.  With a couple testimonials, or cheerleaders, I'd be +1.
<Hew> en_AU translations aren't that important I guess, but see "color" all the time annoys me ;-)
<Hew> seeing*
<persia> The work is good, and it's both significant and sustained, but the involvement with other individuals in the community seems unsupported (it may be present, but it's not currently visible from available information).
<james_w> I find Hew to be an active and skilled bug triager, and he is a valuable member of that community.
<persia> RIght.  +1 from me then.
<james_w> sorry I'm late :-)
<Hew> james_w: Thank you :-)
<amachu> Hew: +1 from me too
<amachu> and elky, TheMuso?
<TheMuso> Knowing that it takes some work to become a good bug triager, and having heard a testimonial from james_w about Hew's work, Im +1 as well.
<elky> i'm +0. while i'm pleased with 3 months of 5-a day, I believe that 4 months is too quick a time to be considered sustained.
<elky> (4 mths being first team join)
<amachu> TheMuso: also for getting prepared immediatly knowing its today and not tomorrow..
<TheMuso> amachu: What about it?
<amachu> TheMuso: I added one more reason sticking to yours :-)
<persia> elky: What do you think is a sensible time guideline?  I'm still operating against the two-month guideline from long ago.
<amachu> elky: any other reason other than the duration of involvement?
<amachu> elky: there?
<elky> persia, i consider 6 months to be sustained. 2 months goes past in a blink. amachu im not really sure, to be honest.
<persia> elky: OK.  And from first team join?  (Looks like 2008-05-03 in this case)
<persia> Or from first restricted team join?
<amachu> elky: its true that 2-3 months goes in a blink..
<amachu> the contributions from Hew are promising, I feel
<persia> Although 2-3 months is the guideline listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<elky> amachu, which is why i'm reserving now. it's borderline
<persia> If that's not the guideline we use, the page ought be updated.
<elky> persia, if we're just here to check boxes then why have multiple of us. i was asked my opinion and i gave it.
<persia> elky: I'm not arguing with your opinion.  I'm not asking you to change it.
<persia> I also think 2 months is very short.  I'm just trying to understand what seems right, and make sure that applicants are receiving appropriate guidance.
<amachu> persia: elky: I hope, then 3:1 should favour Hew, which all of us will agree.
<amachu> with a note to Hew to take elky's observations carefully and contribute continuosly
<elky> amachu, that's democracy. im not going to argue you in to changing your opinions, which is why i'm perplexed we're persisting the point
<persia> Right.  We ought discuss it at some point.  For those of us who find two months fast, it may be sensible to talk with other RMBs and maybe the CC to determine if that remains the right guidance.
<elky> this is now an hour since we started, too.
<persia> Hew: In addition to your bug triage work, I'd encourage you to get involved with the rather active ubuntu-au crowd: there's a fair bit going on there.
<persia> elky: Sure.  Next week works for me.
<Hew> persia: Will do, I'll speak up more and find out what's going on.
<persia> amachu: Could we add that to the agenda: whether the current guidance of two months is sufficient?
<amachu> fine then. Let me welcome Hew and ask him to take into consideration elky's observation
<amachu> persia: yes.
<amachu> persia: should we add that to our agenda? or CC's?
<Hew> amachu: Thanks! I will stay active and look at other areas I can become involved in.
<persia> I'm not tempted to add it to CC just because I don't have more than a weak feeling that 2 months can be very quick.  If someone else wants to present, that would be fine.
<elky> well, neither cc timing fits me
<persia> If we add it to ours, either we can collect discussion items to present to the CC, or decide most of us don't have the feeling elky and I share, and defer it.
<amachu> i will check that and share it in the mailing list
<persia> elky: Not even the one that conflicts with this meeting?
<elky> persia, well no, i often make use of the extra meeting-free evenin
<persia> elky: Heh.  I can well understand that :)
<amachu> persia: We will add it to our agenda first.
<amachu> and discuss next week.. later depending on availabity of any one of us we shall take it to CC
<amachu> I will also inform Arc Riley that the meeting is not tomorrow and its next week...
<amachu> Hew: Welcome againg and looking forward to a continuos contribution from you with more involvement with LoCo team :-)
<persia> OK.  We're done then?
<amachu> persia: I hope so. Is there anything else?
<amachu> TheMuso: ??
<amachu> elky: ?
<TheMuso> Nope.
<Hew> amachu, persia, elky, TheMuso, james_w: Thanks everyone, I look forward to contributing!
<amachu> elky: are you there?
<amachu> Hew: Keep rocking :-)
<elky> amachu, yep
<amachu> elky: shall we wind up for the day?
<elky> yep
<TheMuso> Thanks folks.
<amachu> thank you every one for participating.
<amachu> our next meeting will be on 07 Oct 08
<elky> sure it's the 7th?
<TheMuso> Yes its the 7th.
<amachu> elky: yes
<amachu> ;-)
 * elky ducks
<amachu> Cheers!
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 30 Sep 21:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 19:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 00:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 02:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 15:00: Desktop Team
<freeflying> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubottu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 01 Oct 03:00: LoCo Council | 02 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 06:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 08:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 20:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 21:00: Desktop Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 30 Sep 15:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 13:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 18:00: Platform Team | 01 Oct 20:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 09:00: Desktop Team
 * mathiaz waves
<nealmcb> o/
<kirkland> \o/
<sommer> hey all
<Koon> o/
<zul> hello
<dendrobates> \oo/
<nijaba> o/
<soren> o/&
<kirkland> * dendrobates is a siamese twin?
<dendrobates> yup
<kirkland> and *soren is holding a bong?
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<soren> kirkland: Maybe.
<soren> kirkland: :P
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<nealmcb> I thought dendrobates had spiked sideburns
<mathiaz> Previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080923
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu vm builder
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu vm builder
<mathiaz> soren: what's new there ?
<soren> New version uploaded with lots fixes in it.
<soren> Erm..
<soren> No big news, I'm afraid.
<mathiaz> nijaba: how is the tutorial update going ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: I just completed it, fixing/finding a few bugs as I go
<mathiaz> soren: IIRC you've added xen support to vmbuilder
<nijaba> mathiaz: but I think that, apart from a few changes, the general content is there and I'd love to get some feedback
<mathiaz> soren: do you have access to a xen environment to do the testing ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: url ?
<soren> mathiaz: That was weeks ago, though.
<soren> mathiaz: Yes, I have Xen running inside a KVM instance :)
<zul> soren: scarey
<nijaba> has not changed: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder
<soren> mathiaz: zul and I have been trying to get Xenner to be useful, but it's not working out very well.
<nijaba> Xenner?
<soren> Xenner is a twisted version of KVM that can run Xen paravirt instances.
<zul> xen built ontop of kvm
<mathiaz> soren: is there support for vmware in vmbuilder ?
<zul> soren: a version of it will be in the next version of xen
<soren> It's rather... umm... interesting *cough*.
<soren> mathiaz: There is, yes.
<mathiaz> soren: do you have access to vmware environment to test it ?
<nijaba> but no virtual box yet, I think that's the main one missing
<soren> mathiaz: Nope.
<nijaba> (even though it is not a priority)
<soren> nijaba: Right. Someone asked me about that yesterday.
<mathiaz> soren: are all product of vmware supported ?
<mathiaz> soren: like ESX, -server, etc... ?
<soren> nijaba: I told him that if he could explain how to turn a set of raw images and some settings (amount of ram, cpu's, etc.) into a vbox instance, I'd be happy to implement it.
<soren> nijaba: We'll see how it goes.
<soren> mathiaz: I forget the details right now.
<soren> mathiaz: It should support whatever ubuntu-vm-builder supported.
<soren> If it doesn't, that's a bug that needs fixing.
<nijaba> mathiaz: I am not sure we can support ESX fully with what qemu-img offers
<mathiaz> soren: ok - anyway testing in vmware product is welcome.
<nijaba> mathiaz: was the same for uvb
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
<mathiaz> it may be usefull to figure out which products/technologies are supported by vm-builder.
<nijaba> player, workstation and server. For esx, it needs a manual conversion IIRC
<nijaba> tools are provided by VMware
<mathiaz> nijaba: thanks.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: did you update the virtualization section
<mathiaz> ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I added a couple of lines about xen, but I'm not sure it's quite where it needs to be
<sommer> mathiaz: it'll be updated by SF though
<nijaba> sommer: pointer to what you added?
<mathiaz> zul: could you take a look at the seciont ?
<mathiaz> zul: could you take a look at the virtualization section ?
<zul> mathiaz: yep
<sommer> nijaba: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
<mathiaz> zul: ^^
<mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.
<mathiaz> sommer: nijaba: shouldn't the JeOS section be removed ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: or updated using what I just produced on the wiki?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: or changed.
<mathiaz> or at least updated as there won't be JeOS iso
<mathiaz> dendrobates: IIUC JeOS is now an option in the -server iso
<soren> That's the idea, yes.
<nijaba> mathiaz: or an option in vmbuilder
<mathiaz> how do you get to install a JeOS from -server ?
<nijaba> (as soon as we find a virtual kernel for intrpid)
<nijaba> mathiaz: press F4 at first screen
<mathiaz> which kernel flavour is currently installed ?
<nijaba> for some reason, there is no linux-image-virtual kernel available in intrepid ATM
<mathiaz> since -virtual doesn't exist
<soren> Sure it does.
<nijaba> mathiaz: -server
<soren> I've filed a bug against linux-meta about the missing linux{,-image}-virtual packages.
<dendrobates> soren: have you sent an email to pete about it?
<soren> There *is* a virtual kernel flavour.
<soren> dendrobates: Umm. No?
<nijaba> soren: and is the 64bit version available as well?
<soren> nijaba: Yes.
<nijaba> so the only thinkg misssing is the meta packages....
<soren> yes.
 * nijaba puts too many letters...
<mathiaz> soren: once the -virtual- packages are there, is there anything that needs to be changed in the installer to pick itup ?
<soren> dendrobates: linux-image-2.6.27-4-virtual | 2.6.27-4.6 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i386
<soren> Whoops, that wasn't for dendrobates.
<soren> Whuh... Universe?
<nijaba> mathiaz: some server-ship seeding?
<soren> Yeah, we need to seed it.
<mathiaz> soren: since as of now -server is installed in Jeos
<soren> It needs seeding, but first a metapackage.
<mathiaz> soren: right - and the installer will automatically choose it
<soren> mathiaz: Erm.. No.
<soren> mathiaz: Not the -virtual kernel.
<dendrobates> I want to make sure someone looks at the bug.
<mathiaz> soren: ok - so -virtual- needs to be seeded + the installer has to be modified.
<soren> mathiaz: I'm working on a "detect which virtual environment I'm in, if any" utility.
<soren> I'm going to get that added to base-installer for Jaunty.
<mathiaz> soren: for intrepid or beyond ?
<soren> mathiaz: I'm not sure about changing the installer.
<soren> The option you get in isn't called "JeOS". It's called "Minimal install".
<mathiaz> soren: ok - so that means we still need to fix or at least look into the JeOS option for the intrepid installer
<soren> Which, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.
<nijaba> soren, in fact, it is not a real JeOS iso replacement...
<soren> ..but it's preseedable, which was the original requirement (back in the gutsy days).
<soren> nijaba: -v
<nijaba> Well, the JeOS iso would install the -virtual kernel by default, so picking minimal install is not a replacement for it
<mathiaz> nijaba: so the minimal install for -server intrepid isos installs the same set of packages than JeOS ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's missing is the -virtual- kernel packages for now ?
<soren> nijaba: That's what I just said?
<soren> 15:22:19 < soren> Which, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.
<soren> mathiaz: Yes, apart from the kernel, the choice of packages is (or should be) the same.
<mathiaz> soren: ok.
<mathiaz> let's move on.
<soren> Let's.
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the server guide ?
<sommer> so the jeos section needs updated, and probably the installation section?
<mathiaz> sommer: I've given you some feedback on the ldap serction
<sommer> mathiaz: yep... still need to adjust that
<dendrobates> mathiaz: did you give sommer feedback on the support section, that we discussed?
<sommer> mathiaz: was the ldapadd instead of slapadd the only thing?
<mathiaz> sommer: not yet
<mathiaz> dendrobates: not yet.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: you had wanted some changes, that I agreed with.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide
<mathiaz> sommer: yes
<sommer> mathiaz: cool
<mathiaz> sommer: I still wanna go through the rest of the section and test it.
<mathiaz> sommer: there are some sub-sections about replication and so on.
<mathiaz> sommer: I wonder if it's too advanced for the server guide.
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, cn=config does add some more complexity
<mathiaz> sommer: we could probably mention that it exists and point to the openldap guide
<mathiaz> sommer: upstream documentation is good
<sommer> mathiaz: I think it's pretty important to have replication in... having only a single LDAP server on a network is sort of scary
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the JeOS and installation section
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to update the JeOS and installation section
<mathiaz> sommer: right - IIRC upstream documentation may lack some real world ldif files to setup replication.
<mathiaz> sommer: I'll go through the section and test it
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, and it's not really very clear on adding schema ldif files
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I think that's it
<mathiaz> sommer: great - thanks !
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main
<MootBot> New Topic:  nagios3 in main
<mathiaz> Koon: ^^ ?
<mathiaz> Koon: I think it's fixed now ?
<Koon> mathiaz: I posted the MIR, which wasn't really needed, then nagios3 was promoted
<Koon> and you added it to the server-ship seed
<mathiaz> and it's on the -server cd now ! :D
<nijaba> server-ship?
<mathiaz> nijaba: yes
 * nijaba wonders why, but fine
<mathiaz> nijaba: nagios2 was there
<nijaba> mathiaz: ah, makes sense then
<soren> Well, it wasn't, actually.
<Koon> yep
<mathiaz> nijaba: I've just s/nagios2/nagios3/
<soren> ..but that was a mistake :)
<Koon> soren: tss
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: how is it going ?
<nijaba> it is doing great
<nijaba> more than 2000 full replies so far
<nealmcb> :)
<sommer> wow
<mathiaz> nijaba: when do you plan to close the survey ?
<nijaba> we get about 1/3 of the respondant that do not complete the survey, but that was expected
<nijaba> mathiaz: result will be published before UDS, so I intend to close it last week of november
 * nijaba looking for people knowing how to use a SPSS type tool
<mathiaz> nijaba: seems that the marketing plan is working well.
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, it is.
<mathiaz> anyone that wants to blog about it is welcome.
<nijaba> there are also some items left to do in the launch plan
<mathiaz> it was announced last thursday - and there is a digg link IIRC
<nijaba> yes, but that is not getting too much digging
<kirkland> please splat the digg link here, now
<kirkland> i'll digg+1 it :-)
<nijaba> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Server_survey_launched
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Server_survey_launched
<kirkland> done
<nealmcb> nijaba: I've played with R in the past - very powerful, if confusing.  scipy also does a lot
<kirkland> i'll blog something too
<nijaba> nealmcb: are you voluntering to help on the analysis?
<nijaba> ;)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to blog about the server survey
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to blog about the server survey
 * nealmcb gets a digg in
<nealmcb> nijaba: yes
 * nijaba hugs nealmcb
<nealmcb> I'm not an expert with stats or surveys, but will do what I can
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - anything else on the survey ?
<nijaba> nope...
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Beta Freeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Freeze
<mathiaz> so we're in beta freeze and the -server isos for beta have been produced.
<mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.
 * ivoks o/
<mathiaz> on a related note, partman-auto-raid has been promoted to main and is now available on the iso
<zul> what does that do again?
<mathiaz> so preseeded installs can now setup a RAID system
<zul> ah
<kirkland> \o/
<mathiaz> It requires some testing though.
<ivoks> iirc, it is usable
<ivoks> at least it was when i worked on that... a year ago (or more) :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - it has never been tested in ubuntu.
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ivoks: It works in debian.
<nijaba> an is the option to have a sane boot degraded mode preseedable as well?
<nijaba> s/an/and
<soren> Yes. It's been the default for years.
<soren> :p
<nijaba> :P
<mathiaz> nijaba: kirkland implemented it - he should know about it.
<kirkland> mathiaz: sadly, i have little experience with preseeding, so I don't know
<nijaba> kirkland: is it a debconf question?
<kirkland> nijaba: yup
<soren> kirkland: presseding means answering debconf questions ahead of time.
<ivoks> kirkland: you are so lucky... :)
<nijaba> so it should work fine
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so it's preseedable.
<kirkland> awesome
<soren> For bonus points, someone should tweak kickseed to handle this..
 * nealmcb pats kirkland on the back
<ivoks> that shouldn't be too hard
<nijaba> soren: err... kickstart?
<soren> kickseed.
<ivoks> no, seed
<ivoks> kickstart doesn't know anything about preseeding
<mathiaz> nijaba: kickseed is the name of the kickstart implementation for the Ubuntu installer
<nijaba> ivoks: yup, but you can add preseeds to it
<soren> nijaba: kickseed is an installer component that lets you pass a kickstart file to d-i and then it translates it into the corresponding preseed values.
 * nijaba used it without know its name...
<mathiaz> ivoks: kickseed has a hook to add preseed command in the kickstart file
 * nijaba confirms that it is VERY usefull
<ivoks> ok... i always used kickstart file + preseed file - i guess i'm outdated :)
<mathiaz> so if you've got some spare server hardware, testing the -server iso for Beta is more than welcome!
<mathiaz> Beta is schedule for Thursday.
<ivoks> ok :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add anything ?
<ivoks> yes?
<ivoks> am i allowed to twist arms of kernel team?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> we have very broken drbd implementation in intrepid
<mathiaz> ivoks: on your behalf or on behalf of the server team ?
<ivoks> this requires changes in kernel and new user space tools
<ivoks> well, server team
<nijaba> great calendar to add for the up to date release schedule: 	http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics
<ivoks> the thing is that we have to ship release candidate of drbd 2.8.7
<mathiaz> ivoks: what is required on the kernel side ?
<ivoks> since stable release doesn't work on 2.6.27, and changes are huge
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you have a bug number?
<ivoks> this also means that we'll have user space tools from debian experimental
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> bug #271254
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271254 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271254
<ivoks> i've been working on this for last 3-4 days and i have a working solution - drbd 2.8.7~rc1
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
<ivoks> this is a patch for kernel
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'm confused by the version numbers.
<zul> i had a look at the kernel patch and it looks fine to me
<mathiaz> ivoks: 2.8.7 or 8.2.7 ?
<ivoks> 8.2.7
<zul> mathiaz: 8.2.7
<ivoks> sorry, my mistake
<ivoks> i'll fix that
<mathiaz> ivoks: as of now, 8.2.6 doesn't work in 2.6.27 ?
<ivoks> correct
<ivoks> opensuse has the same problem
<nealmcb> ivoks: thanks for figuring all that out!
<mathiaz> ivoks: could it be possible to fix 8.2.6 ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: or 8.2.7 is the only viable option ?
<zul> basically what happened is that we have 8.0.12 in the archive and the kernel has 8.2.6 which doesnt work well together and if you use 8.2.6. kernel/user then it wont work as well
<ivoks> mathiaz: i've looked at commit, for which drbd guys say that fixes the issue
<ivoks> it simply depends on too many changes to just go cherry picking
<ivoks> in my opinoion, 8.2.7 is a way to go
<mathiaz> zul: ok - so 8.2.6 is broken - 8.2.7rc1 works
<zul> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> ivoks: could the kernel be downgraded to 8.0.12 ?
<ivoks> i haven't tested 8.0.12 with 2.6.17
<zul> mathiaz: Ive talked to kernel guys about that before I got ivoks involved and they didnt think it was a good idea
<mathiaz> right - so it seems that 8.2.7rc1 is the best option as the current situation is broken
<ivoks> right
<nealmcb> zul: and thanks to you too...  looks like it might be one of those costs of going with the 2.6.27 kernel
<ivoks> we can do this changes after beta is out...
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you have 8.2.7 tools in a ppa ?
<dendrobates> ivoks: is there a bug #
<ivoks> nealmcb: yes, it's exactly that...
<mathiaz> dendrobates: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/271254
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271254 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded" [High,Confirmed]
<ivoks> mathiaz: no, but i'm working on it... upstream alredy provides debian/, so i'll just compare to our and debian source
<mathiaz> ivoks: you've mentionned debian experimental.
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> mathiaz: debian experimental has 8.2.6
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think the key point here is to have the tools in a PPA so that we can show that 8.2.7 is working correctly.
<ivoks> mathiaz: i agree
<ivoks> mathiaz: i have 8.2.6 in my ppa, but i'll move it to 8.2.7 today
<mathiaz> ivoks: excellent. then once we're out of beta, we can update the kernel.
<mathiaz> ivoks: IIUC you've also the kernel part ready ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: ie a git branch ready ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: correct
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
<zul> ivoks: just send the patch off to the kernel-t-eam mailing list is is the proper procedure
<mathiaz> ivoks: zul: is it possible to upload a modified kernel to a PPA ?
<ivoks> why not?
<mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know - that's why I'm asking :D
<zul> mathiaz: it can be done sure...
<ivoks> if not, i can setup archive outside ppa
<mathiaz> ivoks: to point is to get wider testing ASAP
<mathiaz> ivoks: KernelFreeze will be in two weeks for Intrepid.
<ivoks> i know
<mathiaz> ivoks: so we won't have that many uploads to test/fix things.
<ivoks> sorry, i didn't have time untill a week ago :(
<zul> mathiaz: its best to send off the patch asap
<mathiaz> zul: ok
<ivoks> zul: with fixed typo
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list
<zul> ivoks: yep
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^ that will help for sponsoring
<ivoks> and kernel source
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> easier to track changes
<mathiaz> ivoks: excellent ! Thanks for the good work
<mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
<ivoks> yes :)
<ivoks> bacula :)
<ivoks> bacula in hardy isn't in very good shape
<ivoks> we've missed a .1 release cause of one bug
<ivoks> upstream claims that bug is fixed, but our bug reporter claims it isn't
<mathiaz> ivoks: .1 - you mean 8.04.1 ?
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - we can still fix things in hardy.
<ivoks> what's the procedure if our bug reporter doesn't reply to bug report, while upstream claims that bug is fixed?
<nijaba> ivoks: I would tend to beleive waht kern said and check if the 2 patches he mentioned were actually applied
<ivoks> since, for SRU, we need validation-confirmed
<ivoks> and there's no one to confirm it :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's the bug number ?
<ivoks> just a second...
<mathiaz> ivoks: for SRU we also need a test case - so that we can reproduce it
<ivoks> bug #227613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227613 in bacula "[SRU] SIGSEGV in bacula-fd" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227613
<mathiaz> ivoks: hm - it seems that we have test case that is repoducable
<mathiaz> ivoks: zul: were you able to reproduce it or not ?
<ivoks> well, it just seems
<ivoks> neither can i or upstream reproduce this bug :)
<zul> mathiaz: no i wasnt
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - in that case, we can only rely on the reporter or one of the tester.
<ivoks> and the bug reporter on bacula's buglist confirmed that this patch solved the issue
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok - it seems that it's a corner case though
<ivoks> ok, so we wait for bug reporter to confirm it is fixed?
<mathiaz> ivoks: in this case we rely on the rporter
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: yes - I'd proceed that way.
<ivoks> that's what i tought... :)
<mathiaz> ok - we're over time now.
<mathiaz> Anything else ?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
<ivoks> ok
<sommer> works for me
<mathiaz> great - so see ya all next week, same time, here.
<mathiaz> happy beta testing all !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
<ivoks> \o/
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
 * soren kicks Mootbot into a resonable timezone
<soren> 11:19... pffffft!
<nealmcb> soren: yeah - us central time - huh....
<nealmcb> now mountain time - that would be good :)
 * soren shakes his head in disbelief
<soren> Swatch internet time.
<alex3f[ubuntu-ro> 18:26 CET
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 30 Sep 21:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 19:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 00:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 02:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 15:00: Desktop Team
<boredandblogging> juliux: might be a bit late for the meeting
<juliux> boredandblogging: hm?
<juliux> ok
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<GiorgosL[GR]> hello everyone
<juliux> hi GiorgosL[GR]
<juliux> popey: boredandblogging ping
<elendil> hi
<juliux> hi elendil
<juliux> welcome to the lococouncil meeting we are waiting atm for more council members
<Ow1> OK. I'm here for representing Romanian LoCo team. Did we qualify for this meeting?
<manuelciosici> hey Ow1
<juliux> hi Ow1 yes you are on the agenda
<Ow1> ok
<boredandblogging> i'm in a meeting
<boredandblogging> brb
<boredandblogging> sorry
<juliux> hi boredandblogging
<juliux> boredandblogging: do you hear anything form popey, janc oder effi?
<juliux> popey: =
<leoquant> janc or janC?
<juliux> janc
<juliux> Ã¤hh JanC ;)
<juliux> i am sorry but i think we have to cancle the meeting we have no quorum to approv locoteams and nxvl isnÂ´t here for his issue
<juliux> as somebody something else, which is urgent?
<DoruHush> ï»¿juliux: it is canceled forever?
<juliux> DoruHush: not for ever but for today
<DoruHush> or for an other date?
<juliux> DoruHush: we will announce the next meeting soon
<DoruHush> ok
<juliux> i am sorry
<elendil> np
<manuelciosici> well, see you next time:)
<alex3f> see ya
<elendil> bye for now - have a good day/night/whatever ;)
<GiorgosL[GR]> ok byeby
<popey> moo
<popey> erk
<popey> too late - sorry
<DoruHush> I'm still here
<DoruHush> hello
<juliux> hey popey
<juliux> popey: we canceld the meeting, but if you and boredandblogging have time we can do some points;)
<popey> email issues, now resolved, didnt realise we had a meeting today
<popey> i can be around for the next 30 mins, yes
<simosx> can we have a word as to who where missing from the meeting (and it got cancelled)? As in 'from the six council members, only four attended', or something like that.
<popey> i was missing simosx and by the look of it so was JanC
<juliux> simosx: ?
<juliux> simosx: there where only 2/5 of the council so we had no quorum
<juliux> popey: is next week bevor the cc meeting working for you? so same time same day next week
<current88> by all
<popey> yes juliux
<juliux> good so we have the next lococouncil next week
<juliux> popey: boredandblogging will send out all the mails;)
<nxvl> i'm still on time?
<nxvl> or i am too late?
<Ow1> too late
<nxvl> :(
<Ow1> al least for loco council
<Ow1> :)
<Ow1> but you are on time for the next meeting
<nxvl> i need to get some thing discussed with the LoCo Council
<nxvl> boredandblogging: still here?
<nxvl> popey: ?
<popey> wassup?
<nxvl> popey: i got the times wrong and i think is too late for the meeting?
<popey> i did too
<nxvl> :()
<nxvl> :(
<Ow1> well guy, I also wrote an email on the loco-contact maillinglist
<Ow1> and I am disapointed by this meeting
<Ow1> and how did you prepare this meeting
<nxvl> nah, LoCo council rocks
<nxvl> is just that i completely forgot about the meeting
<Ow1> it may be.
<Ow1> but for now the loco council proves me that they don't treat the problems with sufficient seriosity
<nxvl> actually they do
<Ow1> no hard feelling.
<Ow1> it's just my feedback
<popey> I'm sorry you feel that way Ow1, it's my fault I wasnt here on time, I apologise
<Ow1> I accept your apology
<Ow1> and as I said, I don't have bad feeling for any of you guys
<persia> Ow1: What problem isn't being treated seriously?  If there's something that's critical, it can often be discussed over email between meetings.
<Ow1> the presence problem
<juliux> Ow1: what is your actual problem? most of the loco council members are 24/7/365 on irc and our mailbox is open for you allways
<Ow1> you get me wrong
<juliux> Ow1: and we will have the next meeting next week
<juliux> Ow1: same day same time only one week later
<Ow1> juliux: OK
<juliux> and we hope that we then have a quorum
<Ow1> me too
<juliux> so cu next week
 * juliux goes to bad
<nxvl> juliux: is there any ML i can use to discuss my topic?
<popey> loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<nxvl> popey: can i suscribe to it or it's closed?
<nxvl> subscribe*
<popey> closed
<popey> if you mail to it, we will cc you in replies
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> that's what i thougt
<nxvl> ok, mail sended
<nxvl> popey: who needs to approve it?
<boredandblogging> nxvl: anyone on the loco-council can approve it, I approved your email
<nxvl> \o/
 * c00l2sv says hi to everyone
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-01
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team
<strAlan> !meeting
<ubottu> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<davmor2> Hello everybody :)
<heno> hey
 * pedro_ waves
<ara> hi!
 * ogasawara waves
<sbeattie> hey
<schwuk> hi
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> Beta testing is of course the big topic today
<davmor2> I've nearly completed Xubuntu
<heno> everyone has done a great job testing since images started appearing yesterday
<heno> bad news is ... we may get new desktop CDs still
<heno> thanks ara for finding bug 276657 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276657 in ubiquity "Main menu is still in English after installation from LiveCD" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276657
<heno> it's apparently non-trivial to recover if we ship that on the beta CDs
<heno> We may know by the end of the meeting
<davmor2> Ah it's okay just means ara needs to test them all ;)
<heno> meanwhile let's move to:
<heno> [TOPIC] Regression bug triage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Regression bug triage
<heno> the triage team have looked at these
<heno> and there is at least one worrying bug, the repeat suspend bug
<heno> bug 261084
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<heno> bdmurray: do you want to talk about that, or raise other bugs?
<bdmurray> heno: I think it would be good if another person could test bug 261084 just to confirm my findings
<bdmurray> I looked through upstream bug trackers and didn't see anything similar
<heno> yes, an impact assessment would be good here, to figure out how many machines it affects
<ara> bdmurray: I could try that
<ara> bdmurray: i need to install the updates first, though
<heno> it seems too late for beta though if there is no fix in sight yet
<bdmurray> ara: that'd be great, let me know if you need any help
<heno> bryce: around? could you look at bug 261084 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<bdmurray> ted seemed to have an idea about what change might have done it
<heno> ted suggests it may be X repeating the keystroke
<davmor2> I got ubuntu still I can install it on my intel machine
<bryce> heno, ok
<bdmurray> right, when I spoke to him last he didn't think so
<heno> ok
<bdmurray> It's possible to recreate it with a Live CD, so no install would be necessary
<heno> still, more eyeballs on it doesn't hurt
<sbeattie> I can test it in a little while, but I've got something else on my plate at the moment.
<bryce> heno: it's probably more likely acpi than X; X tends to be less involved in hotkey handling than before
<heno> bryce: ok, thanks
<heno> schwuk: do you think we could test this on the laptops in Montreal?
<heno> install intrepid and then go around manually suspending a bunch of them
<sbeattie> bryce: we should probably document that due to the fglrx, more ati users will likely be using -ati and as such may see regressions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
<schwuk> heno: we should be able to, but - as you say - it would be manual
<bryce> sbeattie: I'd agree - did you want to put in an initial draft of something?  I'd be happy to flesh it out.
<heno> schwuk: right, but it would be a one-time fact-finding mission
<heno> to find the scope of it
<sbeattie> bryce: sure.
<heno> schwuk: are you able to kick off the relevant installs?
<bdmurray> heno: would it change releasing the beta?
<bryce> heno, I'll update the bug.
<sbeattie> [ACTION] sbeattie to put an initial draft of fglrx/-ati issue on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
 * sbeattie sighs at mootbot.
<heno> bdmurray: my view would be no, but the release team decides
<heno> it can be fixed with an update once the problem is found
<davmor2> bdmurray: I'd of said no but put it in the release text
<heno> while the lang-pack problem has more subtle package management implications apparently
<schwuk> heno: I've tried connecting to montreal directly since re-installing this laptop, so probably not.
<schwuk> I'll give it a go though.
<heno> schwuk: ok, please look into what's needed - we can talk after the meeting about whether we actually want to do it
<heno> perhaps we should instead devise a more general suspend-resume testing day on those machine next week
<davmor2> could add it to the testing day
<heno> so to continue the regression topic
<heno> were there any other notable items that turned up?
<bdmurray> bug 271550 is still unfixed, but I saw \sh mention something about it in #ubuntu-devel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271550 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs missing libQtDBus, others?" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<davmor2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/275882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275882 in ubuntu "Intrepid: Xubuntu doesn't play audio cd's" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> I find it a bit slow going through the regression- ubgs
<heno> yes it wasn't clear to me that his upload was to fix bug 271550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271550 in ia32-libs "ia32-libs missing libQtDBus, others?" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
<heno> it's not marked fixed for Ubuntu, just Debian
<sbeattie> bdmurray: me too. Do you have any ideas for making it better? Would it help to have the description available?
<heno> is that just pending the upload perhaps?
<bdmurray> "09:22 < \sh> can someone let ia32-libs*ubuntu15 go through the buildds  pls?"
<bdmurray> From #ubuntu-devel this morning so I think so
<heno> in fact the changelog claims 2.2ubuntu14 fixes it, ok
<bdmurray> sbeattie: not so much the report I think but the time it takes to review the bugs
<heno> bdmurray: what can we do to help the regression triage along? can we ask the dev teams to lend a hand for their packages?
<ogasawara> sbeattie: would it be possible to sort each package by status and importance
<bdmurray> heno: perhaps asking bug control to help out
<bdmurray> sbeattie: maybe a reviewed checkbox, I think harvest has one, would help
<sbeattie> ogasawara: within each package? Yeah, right now I'm just sorting by bug number as a secondary sort item.
<heno> bdmurray: will you ask bug control? ogasawara: perhaps you can ask someone on the kernel team to look as well, I guess quite a few of these were kernel
<ogasawara> sbeattie: yup, within each package
<heno> (unless those are already well-triaged)
<ogasawara> heno:  yes there are quite a few kernel ones, but many are in an incomplete state waiting for feedback
<heno> ok
<bdmurray> heno: I'll send a mail today
<heno> let's review it again at the next meeting
<heno> thanks bdmurray
<heno> [TOPIC] Testing day next Monday
<MootBot> New Topic:  Testing day next Monday
<ara> we are having our next testing day on Monday and we would focus on distribution upgrades
<heno> ara will lead a testing day focusing on upgrades and update-manager automation
<heno> :)
<ara> if there are people willing to upgrade their systems, now that we reach the beta, it is a good opportunity to get some feedback
<heno> we can ask people to try the system->VM script for multiple upgrade trials
<heno> schwuk: you had played with that aslso right?
<heno> schwuk: can you be around Monday to help people with that?
<ara> heno: I haven't heard about that script, can you point to some doc?
<schwuk> heno: I can, but if you recall my experience wasn't completely successful. I shall work with again before then.
<heno> schwuk: so you can be there to warn people
<heno> :)
<heno> I was actually mvo's first pre-alpha tester
<heno> but I'm sure it's not broken any systems since then ;)
<heno> I can't find a link just now
<schwuk> ara (and anyone else who's interested): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/026017.html
<ara> heno: np
<heno> schwuk: do you know?
<heno> thanks
<heno> anyway, testing day will be great fun! :)
<heno> moving on ...
<heno> [TOPIC] Adding/Removing tracker test cases
<MootBot> New Topic:  Adding/Removing tracker test cases
<heno> we have a few requests listed here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/
<heno> I think we should also prune the case list a bit
<davmor2> isn't the free software only for live cd too?
<davmor2> - winfoss from edubutnu
<heno> Edubuntu upgrade, for example, seems less important when there was no direct install in hardy
<heno> I'd rather do an overloaded install + upgrade test
<heno> liw and I did some of that for Hardy
<heno> ara, schwuk can you two coordinate that this time
<heno> weekly tests starting next week would be good
<heno> by that I mean upgrading a large install, with 5-10000 packages
<sbeattie> davmor2: free software is different from winfoss, it doesn't include stuff from multiverse.
<sbeattie> but it's a regular install otherwise.
<ara> heno, schwuk: sure
<schwuk> heno, ara: likewise :)
<heno> any other tests people think we should prune?
<sbeattie> you can select the option on the live cd, but it doesn't appear to do anything.
<davmor2> you could ask about xubuntu upgrades
<heno> sbeattie: as in nothing at all happens or no different from normal?
<sbeattie> no different from normal
<heno> ok
<davmor2> sbeattie: I know that :)  Edubuntu currently has winfoss on it rather than umenu and wubi.
<heno> davmor2: esp. if we include xfce stuff in the large upgrade install
<heno> davmor2: agreed, that test should be removed too
<heno> ok, we'll add those to the list for removal
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> (no news on new desktop images yet, btw)
<davmor2> do we need to re-test desktop
<davmor2> testing suspend now
<heno> davmor2: we may need to - don't know yet
<heno> ok, thanks everyone!
<heno> happy testing and triage!
<ara> cheers!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:56.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-02
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council
<damhyojung> hey.all
<damhyojung> where r u guys from
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Hello time to start the mobile meeting
 * ogra waves
<StevenK> Was in the middle of typing /join when you said ...
<davidm>  lool persia ?
<lool> yup
 * persia may or may not be here, depending on the possibility of netsplits
<StevenK> And lag
<davidm> OK, lets get started
<lool> You're not allowed to mock me for this, but I just called in the conf call line and waited 2 minutes while preparing a coffee
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> Oh yes we are
<lool> No mocking!!
<davidm> The first action was a carry over for cgregan
<davidm> but he is not around so I'll carry it again
<davidm> [topic] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb
<MootBot> New Topic:  cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb
<davidm> [action] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)
<davidm> [topic] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<lool> davidm: cgregan told me he probably can't attend IRC meeting this week, but will attend tomorrow's phone call
<davidm> lool, thanks
<davidm> StevenK, any progress on spec's?
<StevenK> davidm: I've not done that yet, I keep get distracted. :-(
<StevenK> It is still on my list.
<davidm> I'll carry it over, can you get to it this week?
<StevenK> I've set it as my number 1 task tomorrow
<davidm> [action] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability (CO)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability (CO)
<StevenK> There was another spec persia and I mentioned
<davidm> Yes?
<persia> Oh, the new one?
 * persia checks
<StevenK> Not for the meeting, so I can also write it tomorrow
<davidm> do I need to make an action?
<StevenK> Nah
<davidm> [topic] status of intrepid tasks
<MootBot> New Topic:  status of intrepid tasks
<davidm> OK
<persia> Yeah, the new one was having a nice menu when booting the image.
<lool> We have mobile images
<davidm> Good
<lool> I could install mobile on my Q1U
<davidm> Woot
<lool> mid fails has misc small issues
<lool> +and
<davidm> I showed Matt the mobile images yesterday
<lool> There are issues in the kvm install too
<lool> davidm: Is Matt at the same site this week?
<davidm> lool, he is in London I believe
<davidm> OK from the top
 * StevenK waits
<davidm> StevenK, status for intreped, blockers etc?
<StevenK> davidm: No blockers, just need to make more than 24 hours in the day
 * lool gives a time machine to StevenK 
<StevenK> I'm also looking at NBS since I'd like that list to be empty by release, but that's more a task of archive being clean
<davidm> StevenK, OK, anything specific we need to know about?
<StevenK> Kourou 0.4 has been uploaded which adds an icon for the Installer
<davidm> Nice
 * persia dances
<StevenK> Kourou 0.5 will be prepared tomorrow which allows single or double click since both lool and I discovered that double clicking on a touch screen is *hard*
<ogra> yeah
 * persia tends to have to triple-click or more
<ogra> -mobile uses single for nautilus a well
<ogra> *as
<StevenK> ogra: I discovered the touch screen works too :-)
<lool> Yeah, I'm like tripe touching as well
<StevenK> By accident
<ogra> StevenK, yeah :)
<lool> Until I realize midbrowser /really/ doesn't launch   :-P
<StevenK> Hm. I wasn't aware of that.
<davidm> lool, midbrowser is broken?
<lool> Yeah, it seems recently
<ogra> yeah
<lool> Someone said this was known already
<ogra> asac, is aware
<ogra> but we need a backtrace, i didnt get to that yet
<davidm> is this listed against release or something?
<lool> In all cases it should be
<lool> ogra: Is there an open bug and does it have proper flags?
<davidm> lool, thanks I was about to ask that
<ogra> lool, not yet
<StevenK> Oh yeah, it's that abort() thing
<lool> ogra: You seem to be the best person to file it if you don't mind
<asac> anyone tried if a respin fixes this?
<StevenK> s/spin/build/ ?
<asac> yes
<ogra> lool, doing right now
<lool> ogra: thanks
<davidm> [action] ogra to file midbrowser bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to file midbrowser bug
<davidm> OK StevenK anything else?
<StevenK> Yes, but I think there's a seperate action for it, so it can wait
<davidm> OK
<davidm> persia, status?
<persia> Erm.  The installer *should* have all the last bits in it, except something appears still to not work.  I'm tracking down why.
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/midbrowser/+bug/277074
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277074 in midbrowser "midbrowser doesnt launch in current beta images " [Undecided,New]
<lool> persia: There's this import error, displaying the ubiquity launcher, and launching ubiquity in automatic mode, correct?
<persia> There's an outstanding issue with language packs: in part because of the way the images are constructed, we don't have any language packs, so users have to download them during the install.
<persia> StevenK and I discussed that some, and thought that we'd do best to have a local repository for jaunty, and put up with network access requirements for intrepid.
<StevenK> Displaying the launcher I've taken care of
<asac> rebuilding midbrowser in current intrepid fixes it
<lool> asac: Thanks
<StevenK> Okay, I will upload a rebuild
<lool> asac: You pushed that?
<persia> We're still not installing in automatic mode, because we can't preseed blank passwords: I'm planning to ask the installer team to review a fix for this after beta is complete.
<lool> StevenK: Thanks; midbrowser is big
<asac> lool: err. i see that it there is a change that is not in git in the package
<persia> As a result, it's possible for users to change the username, which breaks X.
<asac> can you please at least forward me patches when uploading?
<lool> StevenK: ^
<persia> And in KVM testing, it was discovered that performing an install in KVM can corrupt the local image if the user does not chattr +i first.  Setting this chattr +i breaks the install.
<asac> anyone knows if git-to-bzr is usable?
<asac> i would like to move the code over to launchpad if possible
<StevenK> asac: Didn't we have this discussion when I did it last month?
<asac> so everyone can commit to that
<persia> One possible workaround is to use ISO images instead of USB images, which also has the benefit of letting us use usb-creator for install devices.
<asac> StevenK: might be :) ... wasnt a complain. just a reminder. if that was already discussed its fine
<davidm> persia, but these devices only have USB
<StevenK> asac: If not, the diff that launchpad generates is fine
<lool> This looks like we will redo the same discussion as on #ubuntu-mobile
<asac> StevenK: oh
<StevenK> davidm: persia means getting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them
<asac> StevenK: http://git.moblin.org/repos/?p=projects/mobile-browser.git;a=shortlog;h=intrepid
<asac> i already released -3 ... maybe upload that ;)
<davidm> ah
<persia> StevenK: Well, to actually initialise USB disks, but yes.
<StevenK> * drop ubufox from Suggests; ubufox doesnt support ...
<StevenK> That's my -2 change, too
<asac> StevenK: yeah. i replayed your change and bumped again for gsfonts or something
<StevenK> asac: midbrowser is enormous, you can upload it if you want
<persia> So, we discussed this at length in #ubuntu-mobile: it seems we *should* discuss it at UDS Jaunty, but there was still a difference of opinions for intrepid.
<asac> i have no time until next week or so
<lool> I'm of the general opinion than we shouldn't change anything big anymore
<StevenK> Right, I will, then
<asac> if noone comes around remind me then so it doesnt get lost
<persia> StevenK: How hard is it to switch from .img to .iso?  If it's trivial, I want to change, if it's non-trivial, I'll drop it.
<davidm> Ok someone write a spec for Jaunty, who is going to do this, persia ?
<StevenK> It's non-trivial
<lool> Cool, settles the discussion
<persia> Bother.  Oh well, let the bugs live.
<ogra> DOORBELL !!!
<persia> davidm: StevenK is probably the best choice, as he already has all the keys.  I can help, but I don't have the keys to actually do it.
<persia> And I'll take an action to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.
<lool> persia: What about the other ubiquity issues?
<StevenK> The spec has to document discussion
<davidm> StevenK, can you work with persia on a spec for Jaunty
<StevenK> davidm, persia: Just write the spec, the implementation discussion can wait until UDS
<persia> Let's have a fresh discussion about it at UDS.
<davidm> [action] persia to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.
<ogra> it works in vbox
<persia> ogra: Indeed, and I'll include your hints in the notes :)
<lool> It's just qemu/kvm-broken
 * ogra dances ... 
<lool> persia: What about the other bugs in the mid install?
<persia> Which bugs?
 * ogra holds a brandnew BT freedom keyboard in his hands
<davidm> [action] persia  write the spec about converting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia  write the spec about converting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them
<lool> That I mentionned earlier
<lool> ogra: I don't understand: you didn't like the Q1U's keyboard???
<StevenK> How could you not?
<ogra> haha
 * StevenK chokes
<ogra> its for my n800
<persia> The display issue has been fixed for a bit.  The "import error" was solved, exposing something else, and automatic was discussed already.
<persia> DId I miss something?
<ogra> the Q1 has a wireless kbd attached :)
<lool> persia: Where are these fixed?
<persia> display is fixed in kourou 0.4, import is fixed in ubiquity 1.10.2
<lool> persia: ubiquity 1.10.3 is in the archive, and there was an image respin
<persia> automatic is about 50% fixed in my local branches, and will be presented to the installer team after the beta.
<lool> persia: And I got an import error with the latest mid image
<lool> I fear the import issues is another one
<lool> Did you manage to install MID?
<persia> Which error?  You shouldn't get an import error.  You should get a Debconf error.  Are you sure you have the latest image?
<lool> Sorry, I think I wrote import error in this meeting when I met python traceback
<lool> I'm getting a debconf python traceback
<StevenK> That's a known error
<persia> OK.  That's expected.
<lool> Yeah, so I'm asking about the status of this bug :)
<lool> I'm happy it's known
<davidm> and a bug # please
<persia> I keep getting distracted.  I've at least identified several things it's not.
<persia> No idea against which package to file a bug yet.
<StevenK> davidm: To make your day brighter, I commited a change to the seeds that contained the diff: - * moblin-media
<lool> persia: I'd file one against ubiquity as a start and reassign appropriately
<persia> lool: I'm 95% sure it's not ubiquity.
<lool> persia: We need to milestone this bug and get it on the release team's radar that we are having a critical issue preventing install
<persia> Yes.  I should have a bug (and a fix) soon.
<davidm> [action] persia to file bug  Debconf error against ubiquity today
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to file bug  Debconf error against ubiquity today
<davidm> OK moving on
<davidm> ogra, status, issues?
<ogra> well, mobile is looking fine apart from the midbrowser issue
<davidm> ogra, good
<ogra> i have a bunch of pending touchscreen driver things resulting from eth umpcportal feedback
<ogra> i'm about to write a fresh blog entry pointing to the images on cdimage
<ogra> well, thats mainly for me, no blockers or anything
<davidm> that should generate some traffic
<davidm> OK
<davidm> amitk_, how is kernel land?
<persia> Oh, right, that reminds me: the Forums team is looking at organising a forum for Ubuntu Mobile.
<davidm> persia, good
<amitk_> davidm: with meta and aufs out of the way, I am working on lrm now
<amitk_> hope to make it available tomorrow.
<lool> amitk_: Do you have other critical tasks for intrepid?
<ogra> is there any chance ath5k could be fixed ?
<lool> Well we could live without lrm
<StevenK> Except then wireless doesn't work
<persia> I'd *much* prefer lrm.  It might make me able to have *some* sort of network connection.
<ogra> we will have to rovide a blacklist file from the -default-settings package if not, as ath5k is preferred by default
<lool> persia: You also have atheros devices?
<amitk_> I need to push new drivers from Intel into Hardy and try to forward-port DRM driver to intrepid.
<persia> lool: Quite possibly: no idea what is on this USB dongle that doesn't work.
<lool> madwifi doesn't support usb wifi
<ogra> usually usb wifi needs firmware
<persia> Oh well.  I'm not so excited about then :)
<ogra> which is in lrm :) )
 * persia vacillates
<lool> So lrm is nice for the Q1 to have, it's high priority, but we could release without it
<amitk_> if enabling madwifi will get the samsung users off my back, I might as well do it :)
<lool> Yeah
<ogra> amitk_, well, we need to make sure ath5k doesnt get preferred though
<ogra> currently you have to blacklist it manually
<ogra> else it gets loaded regardless if madwifi is there
<StevenK> We can add that to -default-settings
<amitk_> ogra: I am sure you'll fix that blacklist once lrm is available :-p
<StevenK> Easily, I say
<davidm> amitk_, anything else?
<ogra> well, but that indeed disables it for all devices where ath5k would work
<amitk_> just a rebase to 2.6.27-rc8 that is pending (base kernel was rebased yesterday) - not critical this week.
 * lool think this should be fixed in ath5k, either in terms of devices it claims to support or in actually supporting them  :-P
<ogra> (we have  netbook user on our open bug for whom it works with the same chipset in a different device)
<ogra> (at least he claims that)
<ogra> lool, ++ ... but might be hard to do
<ogra> in the above light
<amitk_> davidm: that's it on my end
<davidm> lets take the rest of the ath5k madwifi conversation off-line
<davidm> amitk_, thanks
<davidm> lool, status?
<lool> I've been working on MIRs and am now part of the ubuntu-mir team
<StevenK> \o/!
<lool> It could help to some extent for some mobile promotions, but I should rather get mobile stuff reviewed by someone with a neutral opinion on inclusion; so not a big change for mobile efforts
<lool> It's going to be a help for easy stuff though
<lool> I helped on misc beta stuff and discussed with release team
<StevenK> I think it's a bit late to get stuff promoted, though
<lool> I intend to continue testing images and looking into release critical bugs
<lool> No particular blocker
<lool> (</status>)
<davidm> thanks
<lool> davidm: status
<lool> :-P
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> I'm just back from a meeting yesterday
<davidm> with Intel about Moblin 2.0 was interesting
<davidm> they are staging netbooks now to April, MID post that to October
<davidm> interesting
<lool> This matches what I was told at OSIM
<lool> So it's /not/ slipping!  :-)
<davidm> Well at least not currently
<davidm> beyond that it takes a day of travel there and a day back so that has been the entire week so far
<davidm> :-(
<davidm> OK 10 minute warning
<davidm> that covers the agenda I think comments?
<StevenK> davidm: I got no reply to my news.
<StevenK> davidm: I have uploaded a mobile-meta that drops moblin-media
<StevenK> davidm: We are replacing it with totem and gthumb.
<davidm> does it work as well as moblin media?
<StevenK> totem is better, IMO
<davidm> OK
<ian_brasil> StevenK: i think that totally rocks to be honest...moblin-media was difficult to say the least
<StevenK> gthumb looks good, too
<davidm> Good enough then
<ogra> do we have a solution with the X team for psb ?
<lool> ogra: I'm not sure we have a solution for the drm situation
<ogra> (it should be dropped from xserver-xorg-video-all if it breaks, so at least -vesa is available for psb users)
<davidm> nope, Intel will not have a psb driver for Intrepid until sometime in December soonest
<lool> or the exa one
<ogra> i'm not talking about intel but about us :)
<ogra> vesa seems to work on some of them
<ogra> but psb gets prefereed by xorg as long as its there
<davidm> ogra, ah sorry that was a topic of the meeting Tuesday too.
<ogra> so we should drop the package
<lool> ogra: I dropped it from video-all
<ogra> oh, ok
<lool> it's just pending acceptance by release team, will be after beta
<ogra> good
<ogra> i had many requests for psb in the mobile feedback
<ogra> not having it will cost us users i guess :(
<ogra> but vesa is better than nothing
<lool> The problem is that psb lives out of tree and is incompatible with rest of the drivers
<ogra> yeah, i know the upstream issues
<ogra> i'm just sad because that was one of the often asked questions
<lool> Any solution to have the two drms available in libdrm and the two exas would cost us in maintenance and be a pain to setup
<lool> It's Intel's to fix and fix upstream
<ogra> yeah
<pitti> hello
<davidm> 4 minute warning
<ogra> we could just say its pittis fault :P
<persia> There could be a -psb PPA, as there is a -nouveau PPA, if anyone ports it.
<davidm> OK any other opens
<lool> ogra: We could provide psb in a ppa?
<ogra> hmm
<lool> Still require kernel, libdrm, psb uploads, but not too intrusive, less time consuming, and has a chance to work
<lool> Also points out it's unsupported
<lool> persia: Oh *synergy*
 * ogra wonders if we could hack that into the installer somehow to add to apt/sources.list.d
<persia> :)
<persia> ogra: That would be *bad*.
<lool> ogra: Urgh, no
<StevenK> No more PPAs
<MacSlow> hey seb128
<seb128> hello there
<ogra> *not* into the image but at install time
<davidm> 2 minutes
<lool> We could hack it in grub that if you boot Ubuntu with the intention to do this, it prevents booting
<StevenK> Haha
<ogra> heh
 * MacSlow is all out excited about gimp 2.6.0
<persia> I like that.
<lool> ogra: let's discuss after meeting
<ogra> yeah
 * lool waves to desktop team
<StevenK> MacSlow: Oooooh!
<ogra> its just easier than having to add a PPA source
<StevenK> MacSlow: When is it due?
<MacSlow> StevenK, dude it so funky what they did in just a year from 2.4.0 to 2.6.0
 * ogra still likes gdebi though, but its more than one package ...
<lool> StevenK: It's released
<MacSlow> StevenK, like yesterday or so
 * pedro_ waves
<lool> davidm: #close-the-meeting? :)
<MacSlow> StevenK, check out http://gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.6.html
<StevenK> Oh yes
<davidm>  #endmeeting  going once
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:59.
<StevenK> New upstreams of gimp make me happy
<Keybuk> heh
<StevenK> davidm: Going once, you say?
<davidm> Whoops did not expect it to do that
<StevenK> Haha
<lool> haha
<lool> We go at ONE
<lool> (gone)
<davidm> it removed the whitespace and grabbed it, oh well
<StevenK> Ready, on my GO!
<davidm> Keybuk, it's all yours ;-)
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-02
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-02
<Keybuk> afternoon everybody
<tedg> Good morning.
<Keybuk> I'd like to rattle through as quickly as we can today, we overran last week
<mvo> hello
<norsetto> howdy
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<Keybuk> # pitti to discuss gnome-keyring confirmation dialog behaviour in upstream bug
<pitti> done, and followed up on u-desktop@ (no responses there, though)
<pitti> summary is that I think it's fine to entirely disable that dialog for intrepid
<Keybuk>  * mvo to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<Keybuk>  * kwwii to decide on FOSScamp attendance
<pitti> since it doesn't give us any security
<Keybuk> mvo, kwwii: did you decide?
<kwwii> Keybuk: yes, I do not think I am going :-)
<Keybuk> ok, mvo?
<MacSlow> kwwii, sweet
<mvo> I will come, it will problably make sense
<Keybuk> ok
<MacSlow> mvo, cool
<Keybuk> so that means attending FOSScamp are: me, pitti, mpt, seb128, Riddell, MacSlow and mvo
<Keybuk> not attending are tedg, kwwii
<MacSlow> kwwii, ?
<MacSlow> is my xchat messing with me
<Keybuk>  * seb128 to add GNOME people to sponsorship list
<seb128> done
<Keybuk> great, thanks
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Farewells
<MootBot> New Topic:  Farewells
<Keybuk> This will be tedg and MacSlow's last meeting as a member of this team
<Keybuk> on Monday, they'll be moving to the new desktop experience team
 * mpt passes the tissues
 * tedg waves
 * pitti hugs tedg and MacSlow
 * mvo waves to tedg and MacSlow
<MacSlow> ah... I'll be here anyway
<Keybuk> of course, they're likely to still hang out in our meeting anyway ;)
<Keybuk> tedg, MacSlow: David Barth is lucky to have you!
<MacSlow> I just hope I'll be albe to return the helping-favour to the desktop-team, in GL/cairo-regards someday :)
<tedg> I like to call it stalking :)
<seb128> good luck to you there ;-)
<Keybuk> and in what will seem like no time at all
<MacSlow> mvo, seb128, pitti: but still expect me to run into you for debian-ish questions :)
<Keybuk> (a mere 18 days)
<pitti> sure
<Keybuk> mvo will be moving over to the foundations team
 * mvo will just be in the office next door
<pitti> mvo: *hug* mate
<seb128> mvo: you can still come and visit whenever you want ;-)
<Keybuk> mvo: they have meetings at silly times ;)
<mvo> I will still hang out in #ubuntu-desktop!
<seb128> mvo: ;-)
<seb128> so who is staying on board?
<mvo> I don't like the sound of silly times ...
<seb128> that will be faster this way ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: we'll be getting a whole bunch of new people
<Keybuk> but since cvd hasn't sent that e-mail yet, I'm going to defer until then :)
<Keybuk> the changes in the Ubuntu Platform team aren't anything to be concerned about
<MacSlow> seb128, you'll get a new sidekick don't you? :)
<Keybuk> we're all just one big team, and people moving around a bit between the individual parts should be seen as a good thing
<seb128> MacSlow: "new", I don't have a old one ;-)
<kwwii> seb128: you got me, baby
 * tedg thinks that we need to make seb128 a cape with a GNOME logo on it...
<seb128> kwwii: you want to do GNOME updates now? ;-)
<Keybuk> ok, let's move on
<Keybuk> we have a bit of a monster topic here
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Handling the logout applet/old fusa -> new fusa transition on upgrades
<MootBot> New Topic:  Handling the logout applet/old fusa -> new fusa transition on upgrades
<Keybuk> mdz: are you here?
<MacSlow> seb128, ehm... yeah right damn :)
<seb128> Keybuk: not sure that's a meeting topic
<MacSlow> kwwii, you more like a sidepunch
<seb128> ie, the discussion is going on the bug tracker
<pitti> right, there's a lively discussion going on, and right now it's still not clear what the best way forward is
<kwwii> MacSlow: kidney-punch-ken can be my new nick
<Keybuk> pitti: you proposed it as a topic for discussion, was there anything you wanted to discuss here that isn't being handled in the bug?>
<MacSlow> Keybuk, tedg: won't that also touch me (new gdm) at some point
<seb128> I think the bug is right place to discuss that
<pitti> but the question I'm still looking for an answer for is whether it's possible to make g-p load f-u-s-a if your gconf says you either have the old fusa or the old logout applet?
<mvo> was the interactive upgrade hook idea discussed (maybe I got dropped from the CC)?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: shouldn't do - the main problem here is moving applets around in existing user sessions
<pitti> mvo: didn't reply yet; it's a fallback, but it still has problems
<seb128> pitti: I'm going to reply to mdz mails listing 3 courses of actions
<seb128> I started on this mail before the meetic
<pitti> mvo: like, after that you can't ever go back
<kwwii> in any case, I am going to make sure that the little power button icon comes back (effectively killing the little green man)
<pitti> ok, let's continue to discuss it by mail then
<Keybuk> seb128: great!
<Keybuk> that seems like a good idea
<Keybuk> if we have three options, we can rate the pro/con of each, and make an informed decision
<Keybuk> good move
<mvo> pitti: thats a matter of the script i think, we could add code that allows this
<seb128> mvo: "it's only code"
<mvo> seb128: heh :)
<pitti> mvo: I mean in terms of dual-booting other distros/releases, or sharing your /home in a network with several workstations with different releases, etc.
<tedg> seb128: Are you going to include the "all new namespaces" option -- that's presently my favorite on the list of bad options :)
<pitti> I am really veto'ing the idea of any automatic gconftool'ification during upgrade
<mvo> pitti: right, shared home is a problem
<seb128> tedg: no, one of the option is doing configuration changes on upgrade though
<Keybuk> ok thanks
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Sponsoring Overview update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsoring Overview update
<Keybuk> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> a quick scan, I couldn't find anything there
<pitti> some are already uploaded, too
<pitti> (beta freeze, hanging in unapproved)
<Keybuk> pitti: yeah, I cross-referenced that
<seb128> Keybuk: I don't think sponsorship is really revelant this week anyway since uploads don't go through
<Keybuk> so well done everybody!
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Release Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Status
<Keybuk> pitti: over to you, the list of bugs is in the agenda (as I found them)
<seb128> thanks to dholbach, pitti and mvo who helped on the GNOME 2.24 sponsoring
 * norsetto wonders what is the number between parenthesis
 * mvo hugs seb128
<seb128> norsetto: the days since when the bug is waiting
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<pitti> Keybuk: where is that list?
<norsetto> seb128: ah cool
<pitti> Keybuk: intrepid bugs, cherrypicked the desktopish ones?
<pitti> Keybuk: from last week's release team meeting we squashed all but that fusa bug
<Keybuk> pitti: intrepid bugs, by assignee for our team
<Keybuk> pitti: anything you want to chase in this meeting, given the opportunity of everybody here?
<pitti> tedg: will bug 261084 still be on your plate after you move team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<Keybuk> it will
<Keybuk> we will always have a relationship between the desktop and experience teams, where features they wish to land will require co-ordination
<Keybuk> and we will always be assigning bugs back to them to be fixed
<Keybuk> and many of those may be Release Critical
<Keybuk> and almost certainly will involve upgrades
<pitti> ok
<pitti> otherwise, the only thing that currently nags me is ekiga 3.0
<Keybuk> someone asked me about gimp
<pitti> the PPA packages are far from any working state
<kwwii> the new gimp is probably important, very noticeable
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, I'm not 100% on that one yet.  It's not obvious that it's GPM's fault, but it might be the easiest place to fix it.
<MacSlow> 2.6.0 is out yeah!
<seb128> grrrrr
<seb128> the new version is available since yesterday
<MacSlow> seb128, we need 2.6.0 ;-)
<seb128> and intrepid is frozen for beta
<pitti> so ATM I'm inclined to refuse ekiga 3.0, unless someone will actually come along and package it
<MacSlow> seb128, don't worry ... I'm happy compiling it myself
<Keybuk> also tedg will continue to help maintain some packages for at least the time being since we have nobody else to hand them to yet ;)
<seb128> if users could something wait before making a fuss about upgrades when they can't be done anyway
<pitti> MacSlow: same problem, I think; we need someone investing the time to package it properly
<Keybuk> (he also may want to keep them to keep his hand in ;P)
 * tedg found a PPA for GIMP 2.6 ~c-korn :)
<pitti> since I don't like to deviate much of our team's time away from bug fixes
<MacSlow> tedg is the man of the minute :)
<seb128> pitti: I really think we should have ekiga 3.0 and gimp 2.6 in intrepid
<tedg> MacSlow: Actually have to give credit to _MMA_, he sent it to me.
<pitti> seb128: I agree that it would be nice as well, but it will probably require two full mandays to get ekiga
<MacSlow> tedg, ok
<seb128> intrepid is not a lts and that's something quite some users will be wanting
<MacSlow> gimp 2.6.0 would be very wicked to be in intrepid
<MacSlow> honestly
 * tedg is was hoping for something > 8-bit per channel in 2.6 :(
<pitti> any packaging volunteers? :-)
<seb128> MacSlow: agreed and I'll do the update, but it's available for one day and intrepid is frozen
<seb128> pitti: I'll do gimp, not sure about ekiga
<seb128> pitti: apparently gimp require some MIR action thoguh
<seb128> though
 * Riddell throws krita at tedg 
<MacSlow> seb128, so it'll stay in a PPA or move to universe?
<MacSlow> seb128, or is it in main?
<seb128> MacSlow: neither of those
<tedg> Riddell: Have you seen the download size?  It pulls in these crazy large libraries that I don't have installed, QT, KDELibs, etc. :)
<seb128> it'll go to main
<MacSlow> Riddell, hehe
<pitti> seb128: yay bigger CDs :)
<MacSlow> DVDs
<seb128> pitti: those might be optional
<seb128> see bug #276839
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276839 in gimp "please update Gimp to v2.6.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276839
<MacSlow> the ever demanding community
<MacSlow> :)
<seb128> Keybuk: ok, let's move on, the gimp update is on my list already
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<kwwii> we have to remove the gnome themes package
<seb128> no we don't?
<kwwii> so I will be talking to seb128 and mvo about how to do that correctly with updating and all
<kwwii> seb128: trust me, we do :-)
<seb128> there is no correct way to do that
<seb128> some people might be using those themes
<seb128> we should just stop installing it by default
<seb128> but we don't want to remove it on upgrade
<kwwii> seb128: the current suggestion is to hack the thing into two pieces and add the ugly-themes part to anyone updating
<kwwii> so if you update you get effectively the same thing as before, just in two packages instead of one
<mpt> Please don't actually call it ugly-themes
<seb128> the split is what I suggested
<mpt> We've had enough headaches with ugly codecs :-)
<seb128> (not the name)
<tedg> mpt: gnome-themes-looser-artists?
<kwwii> mpt: lol, no worries
<seb128> mpt: in this case they really consider those ugly apparently ;-)
<kwwii> gnome-theme-extras or such
<mvo> what is the issue?
<seb128> there is already an -extras
<seb128> mvo: some themes are ugly apparently and we want to stop shipping those by default
<kwwii> mvo: I wanted to talk to you about how to make the updater do it right
<seb128> that's easy for the upgrade
<seb128> but that's another slap in the face for people using other upgrade tools
<pedro_> which themes? Mist, Crux and such?
<kwwii> pedro_: yes, think along those lines (although mist is quite popular it seems)
<tedg> Oh, we should increase kwwii's mail: I like the name "gnome-themes-that-kwwii-doesnt-like"
<pedro_> yes it's that's why i was asking which ones
<mvo> and we would just ignore if people are using them (because they like ugly) and that they drop to somehthing else after the upgrade ?
<seb128> mvo: the idea would be to install ugly for people upgrading but not on new installs
<kwwii> mvo: the idea is that they will get the extra package with the "ugly" themes in it if they upgrade, no matter whether they really use one of the themes or not
<mvo> right, so we just keep them in gnome-themes (or were they are now) and have a new package "gnome-themes-nice" that is then seeded to ubuntu-desktop?
<mvo> and gnome-themes is simply unseeded?
<kwwii> mvo: no idea, that is why I wanted to discuss it with you :-)
<mvo> than people upgrading keep their theme but new installs only get the shinny ones
<kwwii> right, that sounds correct
<seb128> mvo: we were going to go the other way around, gnome-themes and gnome-themes-ugly
<mvo> ok, I think that should work
<mdz> Keybuk: (phone)
<seb128> mvo: I don't think we should rename gnome-themes
<kwwii> we an call it gnome-themes-legacy or such
<norsetto> mvo, seb128: why not gnome-themes-legacy indtead of -ugly
<kwwii> s/an/can
<kwwii> hehe, exactly :-)
<seb128> maybe gnome-themes should be a dummy package depends on gnome-themes-good and gnome-themes-ugly
 * norsetto high five kwwii
<seb128> and install gnome-themes-good by default only
<kwwii> seb128: whatever you think would be the best long-term solution
<norsetto> seb128: just drop the -good/-ugly dichotomy, some people can find it offending
<seb128> I want "apt-get install gnome-themes" to install what upstream call gnome-themes
<seb128> we are in for upstream conflicts otherwise
<mvo> lets discuss in what direction the rename should happen offline - I think we agree on the general principle :)
<seb128> norsetto: the names were not a suggestion but an example
<mvo> seb128: aha, I think you misread my proposal, that was my intention. gnome-themes stay, we get a new gnome-theme-ubuntu that is now default dep of ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> mvo: ok, we agree then ;-)
<Keybuk> it sounds like you're agreeing with each other ;)
<kwwii> right, ok, I will stay in touch with seb128 and mvo about this
<Keybuk> kwwii: great
<Keybuk> ok, any other any other business?
 * mvo high fives seb128
<kwwii> tomorrow is a holiday in germany
<seb128> Keybuk: it's late in the cycle but I'm wondering if we should drop nautilus-cd-burner from the default installation
<Riddell> kwwii: octoberfest?
<pitti> German unity
<seb128> Keybuk: that can wait next cycle though
<Riddell> same thing :)
<MacSlow> Riddell, actually the "Oktoberfest" is already in full swing in bavaria ... started well before october :)
<Hobbsee> no...you can't get rid of the nice themes!
<Keybuk> seb128: I'd vaguely say next cycle at this point
<MacSlow> Riddell, kwwii should know he lives there :)
<Keybuk> dropping things after beta seems wrong
<seb128> Keybuk: ok, good enough, it let us time to discuss it
<mpt> dropping nautilus-cd-burner seems wrong too ;-)
<seb128> it just seems to not bring a lot since brasero work better in most cases nowadays
<MacSlow> seb128, isn't there a nautlius "plugin" for brasero?
<MacSlow> kind of replacing nautilus-cd-burner?
 * MacSlow looks it up again
<MacSlow> seb128, I vaguely remember something along those lines
<seb128> MacSlow: nautilus-cd-burner doesn't do a lot
<seb128> basically it means we have to maintain two software to do the same things
<seb128> users are confused that the places menus open a different software which has limited capabilities
 * mvo always liked n-c-d for its simplicity
<mvo> but I see the point
<seb128> mvo: brasero --data is basically as simple
<MacSlow> seb128, ah... wasn't really a plugin ... brasero just can open up a n-c-b project
<mpt> This is an annoying example of upstreams doing completely the wrong thing
<seb128> mpt: why?
<seb128> mpt: the issue is that nautilus is a file manager, it's not something where you can easily add audio project or video DVD concepts
<mpt> nautilus-cd-burner doesn't have the features that Brasero does because, why, they want to keep it simple? And therefore we're pressured to ship Brasero *instead of* nautilus-cd-burner, thus leaving the overall interface more complicated and inconsistent than if the features had been added to nautilus-cd-burner in the first place.
<mpt> Bananas.
<pitti> it seems to me that the people who complain are really the power users who actually care about doing weird things with CDs
<kwwii> pitti: full ack, I doubt most people do more than burn music or data
<pitti> personally I never needed anything else than nautilus and n-c-b for data burning
<seb128> pitti: not only, n-c-b doesn't give you an indication of how much data you selected and how much your media contains for example
<MacSlow> pitti, burning ISO-images only work with brasero
<seb128> nautilus is a file-manager
<pitti> MacSlow: hm? right-click, burn, done
<seb128> it doesn't make it easy to add nice widgets in random location for such things
<MacSlow> pitti, that always hoses my CD-Rs
<pitti> seb128: don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating to drop brasero or so :)
<seb128> MacSlow: that's called a bug
<pitti> just defending n-c-b a bit
<seb128> pitti: I'm just saying that people will advocate that brasero --data is not so much complicated that n-c-b
<seb128> and has some extra nice indicators and features
<seb128> and they have a point
<seb128> but anyway not something for this cyle
<seb128> cycle
<seb128> and not really a meeting agenda item
<mpt> yes, sorry for the sidetrack
<Keybuk> ;_0
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:48.
<Keybuk> thanks all
<mvo> thanks!
<kwwii> thanks, bye
<pitti> thanks all!
<pedro_> thanks
<pitti> let's get that beta out and squash bugs by the dozen
 * pitti ^5s the desktoppers
 * mpt cheers the programmers
<MacSlow> d-feet!
<pitti> MacSlow: it's pretty useful, isn't it?
<seb128> thanks
<MacSlow> pitti, ehm... hm... at least it's not as bare-bone as dbus-* :)
<MacSlow> doh... screw iwl3945
<persia> OK.  Who's here for the Java meeting?
<Koon> o/
<persia> OK.  We're not all here, but there's a few of us :)
<persia> Agenda doesn't have anything special on it, so we'll just hit the roadmap.
<persia> robilad seems absent, but being this close to release, new tasks aren't as essential.
<persia> slytherin: Are we all done with MoveToUniverse, or are there a couple still blocked?
<slytherin> persia: Nothing blocked, just few bugs pending due to beta freeze. No archive changes are being processed.
<persia> slytherin: OK, so we're expecting everything to be processed post-beta?  Everything is in the archive-admin queue now?
<persia> Are there any approvals outstanding?
<slytherin> persia: Just one, bug #277088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277088 in libjrosetta-java "Please move package to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277088
<slytherin> I forgot to log the bug after the sync request got processed
<persia> OK.  I'll double-check, and ACK that.  Does it need -release approval?
<slytherin> persia: Don't think so.
<persia> OK.
<persia> Sounds good then.  After that, I suppose we're basically blocked until the autoimporter starts, right?
<slytherin> persia: yes
<slytherin> By the way, there is another sync bug which I am not sure if it will require -release approval. But the package is not moving to multiverse. The sync is just to fix problem on powerpc. bug #277102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277102 in libjogl-java "Please sync libjogl-java 1.1.1-2 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277102
<persia> That oughtn't require motu-release.  Added to my list.
<persia> Anything else?
<slytherin> Nothing. Now I am mainly looking into any easy FTBFS fixes.
<persia> Great!
<persia> Koon: How is the progress with the new improved maven plan?
<Koon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec is finalized, I welcome reviews and/or official approval
<slytherin> Koon: You may want to add 'tomcat 6' in the section of 'On the server' of beta announcement. :-)
<Koon> slytherin: where is it ?
<persia> Koon: Looks good to me, and seems to cover all the points.  You'll need to assign an approver if you want official approval.
<Koon> persia: any suggestion ?
<persia> I'd check with doko, and see if he's willing to be the approver.  If not, could be me, I suppose.
<Koon> OK, I'll check with him
<persia> From reviewing that, it looks like implementation for jaunty ought be fairly straightforward, and we can probably even have a lot of it done in coordination with pkg-java.
<persia> Koon: Anything else?
<Koon> no.
<slytherin> Koon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/BetaAnnouncement
<Koon> slytherin: looks like tomcat is already there, no ?
<persia> OK.  Anyone have anything else to raise today?  Anything critical for release?
<slytherin> Koon: right. I just saw the Other section.
<slytherin> persia: do you have any idea if doko plans to update openjdk? We are currently using beta release.
<persia> slytherin: I haven't heard anything specific.  I know the target was to try to get something that passed the complaince test.  I don't think the version number was consdiered as important.  I haven't run the complaince test to know if we're there yet.
<slytherin> ok.
<persia> I think that team usually meets in some hours (maybe 6 or 8 or something), and it may be discussed then, but I don't remember the schedule exactly, and the room scheduling, while getting better, isn't fixed entirely yet.
<slytherin> Ok. So there is nothing else form my side.
<persia> RIght.  Ending the meeting then :)  Have a great week!
<Koon> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-03
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team
<KewlJ> hey people
<P5YCH00> hello
<P5YCH00> assitance needed
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-04
<charlie-tca> good morning
<charlie-tca> Anybody up for the Xubuntu Team Meeting?
<charlie-tca> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-28
<DKcross> hello people
<kees> mdeslaur: you go first.  :)
<mdeslaur> okay :)
<mdeslaur> I just published dovecot updates
<mdeslaur> I plan on testing the beta release when it comes out
<mdeslaur> And I'll go down the CVE list to find something else
<mdeslaur> oh, and I think I have something to sponsor that just came up
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> that's about it for me
<jdstrand> shall I go?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: sure
<jdstrand> well, last week I sponsored a postgresql and asterisk, but mostly I worked on libvirt/apparmor. I fixed several RC bugs that cropped up when it was used with eucalyptus. They all should be fixed now
<jdstrand> there are a couple of smaller bugs that I'll fix after beta
<jdstrand> I also got all that libvirt/apparmor worked submitted upstream, so we'll see how that goes
<jdstrand> I plan to get back to openoffice.org this week, and fix any RC bugs that come up
<jdstrand> (RC bugs for the development work, not oo.o ;)
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<kees> I'm going to finalize the AppArmor parser bits for beta
<jdstrand> (I'll of course pick something else up if the starts align and I get oo.o published quickly)
<kees> (or push it post-beta)
<jdstrand> s/starts/stars/
<kees> going to look at the embargoed issue from friday night
<kees> and then start doing regression testing against the beta image.
<kees> I'd like to get everything passing.
<kees> and I'll likely start publishing some statistics finally
<kees> or, rather, MORE statistics
<mdeslaur> \o/
<kees> that's about it for me this week.  probably do a bit of catch-up from things missed while attention was on the plumber's conf.
<kees> any non-status items?
<jdstrand> kees: you mean non https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus items?
 * jdstrand likes hyphenating URLs
<jdstrand> though seems I missed the actuall hyphenation
<kees> sorry, I meant "stuff not already covered in our stand-up status meeting just now"
 * jdstrand likes to imply hyphenation with URLs
<jdstrand> something that has been on the backburner for me that I'm going to need to spend some time on is updating our USNs
<kees> is there anything from that wiki page that is in danger of getting delayed?  (besides the dovecot item that is already marked that way)
<jdstrand> I'm having a hard time finding time to do it, but am hopeful that I'll get to it soonish
<kees> ah yeah, USN formatting updates.
<kees> yeah, it's really not critical, but would be nice.  perhaps during the relative calm post-release?
<jdstrand> kees: that is the only 'in danger' item, but as it isn't strictly tied to release, we are still ok I think
 * jdstrand nods
<kees> cool
<kees> ok, meeting over!  :)
<robbiew> whoohoo
<jdstrand> \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-29
<lool> Hi there
<lool> Where's NCommander?
<paulliu> hi
<JamieBennett> hey
<lool> ogra, GrueMaster, plars, davidm, JamieBennett, dyfet: meeting?
<dyfet> hi
<GrueMaster> if I must.
<plars> yarg
<JamieBennett> yup
<ogra> oooh
 * ogra totally forgot 
<ogra> i'm so ddep into filing bugs atm
<ogra> *deep
<davidm> hello
 * GrueMaster stragles out to get a fresh cup of caffeine.
<lool> I guess we'll do without NC
<lool> NCommander
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * lool sighs on the lack of a meeting page
<lool> Nor for last week, impressive
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> First action on completing dove z0 d-i support was on ncommander
<lool> But I don't think he worked further on it; I agree we should first confirm whether that's still a target since bjf was saying it might not be supported anymore
<lool> move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
<lool> dyfet: ?
<dyfet> oh...we want amd64 active for that?  Then I will change architecture to any
<dyfet> That I think would be simplest...
<lool> I don't see why lubuntu should be architecture specific
<dyfet> I do not recall why this was done either originally
<lool> This decision is usually defered to image building time because these cost QA and space
<lool> dyfet: So what about the other bits?
<lool> dyfet: Moving to proper location (/ubuntu-seeds)
<dyfet> Agreed...and a quick tiny change :).  I had been trying to sync up with the other people using the branch to move the seed.  But it is a team maintained seed
<davidm> NCommander, is here now
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> NCommander, There is already a meeting in progress.
<NCommander> ah
<lool> dyfet: so carry on I guess
<dyfet> okay
<lool> [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet, c/o)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet, c/o)
<lool> setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
<lool> Had a meeting on Monday where we planned our various efforts
<lool> A short summary is that there are some 4 parallel efforts going on or so
<lool> We're trying to merge bug fixes from private jaunty ppa to public moblin ppa
<lool> we're trying to merge karmic public ppa to karmic proper
<lool> we're trying to fix more bugs
<lool> we're trying to merge moblin 2.1
<lool> (and we're also trying to make the jaunty bits public in some way)
<lool> chrischeney will be tasked with the jaunty -> any merges
<lool> paulliu keeps working on moblin 2.1
<lool> rest of OEM folks work on bug fixes and moblin 2.1
<paulliu> lool: yes.
<lool> We touched based on a plan for some partial moblin compliance too
<lool> That's it
<lool> Image is quite broken right now due to move to 2.1
<lool> but that's life and we want moblin 2.1 more than a 100% karmic based image which doesn't seem atteinable anymore
<paulliu> lool: Update mutter-moblin should brings everything back.
<lool> file question against soyuz on PPA size (paulliu, c/o)
<lool> paulliu: ^ did you file that?
<GrueMaster> lool: how come I wasn't invited to the meeting?
<paulliu> lool: Ah. Not yet. (c/o)
<GrueMaster> Seeing as how I'm doing the compliance testing.
<paulliu> lool: But we haven't have a new PPA.
<lool> GrueMaster: We only discussed how to organize package uploads and this was appended to the meeting, not really part of the agenda to start with
<paulliu> lool: The current PPA size is large enough. If we want a new PPA we need to have the same size.
<lool> GrueMaster: The only thing we discussed on this topic was basically that we want to keep this in a separate compliance ppa and perhaps base on jaunty
<lool> paulliu: Do we want one?  Not sure we actually need one anymore
<lool> paulliu: I guess not
<paulliu> lool: yes. So let's delete that action.
<lool> plars to update the bug workflow
<lool> plars: ^
<plars> that has been mostly completed, the only thing I hadn't done yet was add a section for moblin
<lool> Ok thanks
<plars> which I was kind of on the fence about one part, and that would be for the 'moblin' tag
<plars> I was thinking it may not be necessary, since all moblin bugs are supposed to go into ubuntu-moblin
<plars> however, after thinking about it some more, I could see how someone might file a bug against a non-moblin specific package, and it end up being in ubuntu with possibly nothing indicating that it happened on a moblin system
<lool> plars: indeed not necessary for now but doesn't hurt much to plan for next cycle and start adding that perhaps?
<lool> ack
<plars> so I'm thinking it would still be useful to have
<lool> plars: makes sense to have it IMO
<plars> so I'm going to go ahead with that, and see about putting the hook in for it too
<plars> we want the tag to just be 'moblin' right?
<lool> GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation.
<lool> plars: yeah
<plars> or is something like 'ubuntu-umr' or 'ubuntu-moblin' more paletable?
<plars> ok
<GrueMaster> I talked with Ted Tso and a couple of test developers, found out what needs to be installed for testing compliance.
<GrueMaster> There were a lot of missing bits, like locale info and a few other missing packages that the tests depend on.
<GrueMaster> I'll add those in to the next test round.
<GrueMaster> The list I have is non-distro specific, so once I know what ubuntu packages are needed, I'll request a meta package wrapper to be made.
<lool> lool to add uboot-mkimage to the desktop ship seed to make dove images non-dependent on internet access
<lool> done
<lool> pushed today; need to see if that works as expected
<GrueMaster> As to actual compliance, the final specification for 2.0 won't be released until after karmic.
 * GrueMaster is done.
<lool> [topic] UNR status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR status
<lool> njpatel: You around?
<lool> njpatel: Any particular comments?
<lool> AFAIK we're up to date on releases
<lool> Except for a tentative humanity upload which I nacked
<lool> Nothing particularly interesting to report
<lool> [link] UNR Status
<MootBot> LINK received:  UNR Status
<lool> Ups
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> No interesting bugs there
<lool> Biggest issue with icon theme has been resolved by saying we keep what we have
<GrueMaster> Apparently there was a new bug filed recently against maximus that isn't listed here.
<lool> #?
<GrueMaster> bug #421019
<lool> If someone has some free cycles, there's an easy bug with translations of window-picker-applet where I outlined the necessary changes and they need implementation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421019 in maximus "maximus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421019
<GrueMaster> Ah, someone has already looked at it.
<joaopinto> does it make sense to report such an obvious bug like flash failing to install from firefox plugin finder service ? Does anyone know a bug report about it ?
<lool> Can't personally load it
<lool> I mean it takes forever
<joaopinto> ops, wrong channel, sorry :|
<lool> GrueMaster: Is it properly milestoned etc.?
<plars> my current concern with unr is that desktop-switcher seems unusable without reeking havoc
<lool> plars: Indeed
<GrueMaster> plars triaged this one.
<lool> plars: So we tried clamping the worst issues last week but I still see it as a sore poin
<plars> I wanted to talk to neil about it first before suggesting anything rash
<lool> point
<lool> plars: last times I looked into d-s issues, I gazed and thought we need to rewrite everything
<lool> Problem is that we can't do that for karmic
<lool> It should of course be a lucid spec to use a different mechanism for it
<plars> lool: jason had suggested that it should just be a session option at login, which seems reasonable
<plars> the on-the-fly switching is a neat trick, but doesn't seem to work well in practice
 * StevenK shores
<lool> plars: Yes; I suggested that too, months ago, but nobody had time to look into it
<lool> StevenK: Hey; we're in UNR status
<lool> topic is d-s
<plars> it's the only really good option I've heard so far
<StevenK> d-s is broken?
<lool> plars: Cant do that in karmic though; I had in mind we should do our best to fix the biggest issues in karmic's
<plars> StevenK: it never actually worked
<StevenK> Sure it has, it's just ... fragile
<lool> plars: Could you come up with the highest prio bugs in your eyes which we should fix for release?
<plars> lool: right, but if d-s can't be stabilized enough, I think it needs to not be there.  It's breaking systems
<plars> will do
<lool> plars: It's an option
<lool> plars: I think I'd need a summary of breakage from you if you could produce that
<GrueMaster> hey, that would also reduce the image size.  Win.
<lool> plars: That'd help convincing release team + design team that we want it out
<lool> GrueMaster: Speaking of which
<lool> GrueMaster: How did that effort go recently?
<GrueMaster> I haven't had time to look into it.  I was busy withthe conference last week.
<GrueMaster> I'm looking into it today.
<StevenK> We need to wait until after beta for large-ish things anyway
<lool> StevenK: anything WRT UNR?
<StevenK> Yes, we're oversized.
<lool> Right now?
<lool> We seem to be at 686M
 * StevenK checks again
<StevenK> Okay, we were ... :-)
<StevenK> We hit 714M this morning
<lool> wow
<lool> how come?
<StevenK> I wasn't able to figure that out, sadly
<lool> Ok; probably temporary bogosity
<StevenK> But it looks like we dropped like a stone after that if we're at 686
<lool> StevenK: any other bugs / highlights?
<StevenK> I'll re-instate de after beta
<lool> StevenK: are we in sync WRT seeds and upstream releases?
<lool> StevenK: Well I remember pidgin crept in over the week end and I fixed it but it probably was accepted on monday only
<lool> that might explain the big image
<StevenK> I've not checked those, but we are probably too late to change either
<lool> StevenK: Can you make sure you double check we're not out of date?
<lool> StevenK: I'd hate if we would be missing any change, even the most trivial ones
<StevenK> lool: I certainly will, when I'm working again
<lool> Thanks
<lool> [topic] moblin remix status
<MootBot> New Topic:  moblin remix status
<lool> StevenK: hey again!
 * StevenK chuckles
<lool> paulliu, StevenK: So it's quite borken right now
<lool> paulliu: You say it's about to be mostly fixed?
<paulliu> lool: yes. If you boot with a while screen. You just need to upgrade mutter-moblin.
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin
<paulliu> lool: I think it might not included in the built today.
<lool> paulliu: Is it still booting into gnome?
<StevenK> paulliu: So the current livefs needs a fixed mutter-moblin?
<lool> I'll take care of the sources.list and apt preferences files in livecd-rootfs, but after beta
<paulliu> StevenK: yes.
<lool> paulliu: When was it uploaded?
<lool> paulliu: We had a build an hour ago or so
<paulliu> lool: one hour ago.
<ogra> note that dues to a casper breakage we dont have ttys on live images
<lool> mutter-moblin 0.40.0-0ubuntu0moblin6
<lool> that's what we have
<StevenK> Okay, we can organise a rebuild
<ogra> so if you have a white screen there is no way to install anything on tty
<paulliu> lool: ok. It's ok.
<lool> ogra: Is that one fixed?
<lool> paulliu: Cool
<ogra> lool, slangasek said post beta
<lool> paulliu: no rebuild needed then?
<lool> ogra: Ok
<paulliu> lool: no rebuild needed.
<lool> Anything else on moblin for beta?
<ogra> Bug 438678 filed ...
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: ^?
<GrueMaster> That tty issue may be related to a kernel bug I filed yesterday.
<ogra> GrueMaster, it isnt
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438678 in casper "25configure_init uses /dev/ttyN.conf instead of /dev/ttyN for /etc/init/tty*.conf mangling" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438678
<GrueMaster> ok
<plars> lool: I've not had time to focus on moblin this week, couldn't say
<paulliu> Is it only breaks Moblin??
<ogra> nope
<ogra> all live images
<StevenK> No, it would affect everything
<lool> Hmm if it's in the installed system too it certainly should be > medium
<paulliu> ogra: OK. thanks. That should be the bug mentioned by Kevin Huang today afternoon.
<StevenK> It's more casper and upstart fallout
<ogra> but if moblin leaves you with unusable X it is hard :)
<paulliu> ogra: He complains that moblin installation is totally broken.
<GrueMaster> lool, my focus last week was on moblin compliance, based on Alpha 6.
<GrueMaster> I didn't get into any testing yet.
<lool> GrueMaster: Do we have public results?
<StevenK> paulliu: Could you ask him to file bugs?
<lool> GrueMaster: Are you automating this stuff?
<GrueMaster> public results for moblin compliance testing?  not yet.
<StevenK> paulliu: Or at least document what is broken, and how it breaks
 * StevenK prods LP with a sharp stick
<paulliu> StevenK: Hmm. Not good because it's a secret project I think. A hardware runs nvidia driver. Not Intel.
<GrueMaster> The testing is automated.  Last week i was in a full week long conference, where I managed to corner some members of the linux foundation that work on the compliance test suite.
<lool> GrueMaster: So this runs from cron on your side?
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Were you armed or unarmed?
<lool> GrueMaster: What I'd like to see are daily builds of the testsuite against the daily image so that we can see progress on compliance fixing
<GrueMaster> No.  It is manually started.  I really don't have time to give a full education on how the test system works.
<GrueMaster> Not possible.
<lool> I don't like reading not possible
<GrueMaster> Test suite takes 26 hours to run it's course, not including manual tests.
<GrueMaster> You want it done faster, buy me more hardware.
<lool> I don't want to have to rely on you to push the button
<lool> GrueMaster: Well actually I did wonder a couple of times why it's running in your basement instead of in our shiny DCs
<GrueMaster> It's my job, it's what I do.
<GrueMaster> DC's?
<lool> data ceners
<StevenK> Datacentre
<lool> *centers
<GrueMaster> Some of the tests require hardware that you don't see when running in a VM.
<GrueMaster> Like the GL tests.
<lool> We don't need to run them in a vm in the DC
<lool> We have our hw cert labs and our regular DCs which could host a new machine
<lool> But ideally this would run on hw cert machines
<GrueMaster> And who would run the manual tests?
<lool> GrueMaster: Could you look at documenting what you run and how you setup a machine to rnu the testsuite?
<StevenK> And what access it needs to the machine
<lool> GrueMaster: I don't know what the manual tests are
<GrueMaster> It is already documented on the moblin.org site, along with some new hints for missing packages I just got last week.
<GrueMaster> let's take this offline.
<StevenK> Does it need root, will it spew 80G of garbage to a disk ...
<lool> Ok; I agree it takes too long to discuss here
<lool> GrueMaster: But I would like to see more transparency on the setup and less dependencies on you pressing abutton
<GrueMaster> Do we really want to spend the next 15 minutes with a tutorial on how to run the test suite?
<StevenK> ... not here
 * StevenK has a bed to visit
<lool> Anything else moblin related?
<plars> GrueMaster: we should talk about seeing if we can make it run in checkbox
<StevenK> plars, GrueMaster: That sounds like a good UDS topic
<GrueMaster> lool: you seem to have some sort of misconception about how the test suite works.  Please either read the documentation or try the test out yourself for once.
<lool> +1
<GrueMaster> -1.
<GrueMaster> Good luck.
<GrueMaster> The test suite is updated too often.
<lool> GrueMaster: I have the impression that thousands of tests must be automated in some way and that having a person kick them manually is not the best way to use our time
<plars> GrueMaster: I'm not saying it's simple, just worth taking a look at
<GrueMaster> It is automated. To a point.
<plars> GrueMaster: we already have testsuites in checkbox that are updated several times a day!
<GrueMaster> IT TAKES LITTLE TIME TO RUN!!!!!
 * ogra shades his ears
<lool> But you might be at a conference or hit by a bus
 * GrueMaster wants desparately to drop this subject.
<plars> ok, in any case, we have 10 minutes left, we can talk about it offline
<GrueMaster> Then someone else will need to spend 15 minutes learning how to run them.
<lool> [topic] armel
 * plars suggests [action] gruemaster to avoid busses for a while
<MootBot> New Topic:  armel
<GrueMaster> And another 10 minutes posting the data.
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
 * ogra would like to see someone from the team to test Bug 427289
<GrueMaster> Plus an hour a week justifying the ten minutes spent.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427289 in linux-fsl-imx51 "hardware clock not saved if board power is removed on babbage 2.5" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427289
<lool> amitk would like us to test his pselect patches
<ogra> the kernel in todays image should support the charging
<ogra> but my battery seems to be bad
<lool> ogra: Ok
<lool> will dist upgrade and test
<ogra> you need to change for 8-12h, according to amit the clock should keep the time then
<lool> [action] test fix for RTC battery charging (lool)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  test fix for RTC battery charging (lool)
<ogra> a voltmeter would also be nice :)
<ogra> and reporting some values
<ogra> but not mandatory
<lool> CRAP
<lool> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/1:3.1.1-2ubuntu3/+build/1264928
<ogra> imx51 FEC driver has issues with NM and in d-i
<lool> doko_: ^
<lool> ogra: Bug?
<ogra> oo.o didnt build and we will likely ship with a broken one this round
<lool> make[2]: *** [bfd.info] Error 1
<lool> make[2]: Leaving directory `/build/buildd/openoffice.org-3.1.1/binutils-build/bfd/doc'
<ogra> Bug 438687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438687 in network-manager "FEC driver does not set "DRIVER" property in udev which makes network-manager fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438687
<lool> doko_: missing bdep?
<ogra> lool, he knows the fixy
<lool> ogra: Is this being pushed?
<ogra> but we wont make it in time
<lool> Unless we respin thursday morning
<ogra> doko is on it afaik
<ogra> in any case i propose to not rip out oo.o this time
<doko_> lool: it's missing a b-d for binutils, yes. if it helps anything, I'll have packages ready in about 2h/3h on jocote, built from the same source
<lool> ogra: 438687 > looks good
<ogra> it took four people and several hours to get that right last time
<ogra> if oo.o doesnt build, lets just release note it but leave it in the image
<lool> ogra: It wasn't installable I think
<ogra> you have to make changes in to many places
<lool> Ok anything else on armel?
<ogra> lool, ouch, indeed
<ogra> and it wont be this time either
<GrueMaster> sata still doesn't work when running gdm.
<ogra> arch all discrepancy
<lool> I have to review the f-k changes from NCommander  but will be post beta now
<ogra> lool, so it seems we have to rip it out or not respin
<ogra> current .1 image looks quite good
<ogra> a respin will screw up the livefs build
<GrueMaster> Also, the two failing nics of mine have been given to amitk for debugging.
<lool> [topic] specs review
<MootBot> New Topic:  specs review
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, the builtin NIC works now
<GrueMaster> I have spres here.
<lool> ogra: is cron disabled?
<GrueMaster> ogra, I noticed.
<ogra> lool, for images ? i think so
<ogra> pitti could tell
<lool> ogra: Ok they are
<lool> ogra: then we just need to pass the word not to respin desktop on arnel
<lool> armel
<ogra> yeah
<lool> GrueMaster: LSB results for A6 > didn't see them
<GrueMaster> I think there is still some stability issues in the USB driver stack. on imx51.
<lool> GrueMaster: So I dropped it from the spec
<GrueMaster> sigh.
<plars> 2 min
<lool> I POSTPONED a bunch of items on paulliu's specs
<GrueMaster> I just posted them.
<lool> GrueMaster: I updated the spec again
<StevenK> I'm still waiting to hear when Wubi is fixed ...
<lool> GrueMaster: Just update the spec next time
<lool> StevenK: :-(
<GrueMaster> I had waited to go over them with the linux foundation folks so I could understand some major failures.
<lool> StevenK: it affects desktop too, so quite bad
<StevenK> lool: Absolutely
<lool> GrueMaster: I dont see how that blocks posting them?!
<GrueMaster> lool: let ME update my spec, please.
<StevenK> lool: I think Agostino needs to be nailed down, I'll try and catch him this week
<lool> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<GrueMaster> I needed to see if I was doing anything wrong.  there was a major test suite that hung.
<GrueMaster> turned out to be a kernel bug.
<lool> GrueMaster: Sorry but you're not the only one to be in charge of the spec
<lool> GrueMaster: I happen to have to report on it
<lool> with the help of ogra BTW
<GrueMaster> can you at least ask me what's up before blindly making changes?
 * ogra looks up 
<lool> GrueMaster: I checked the wiki, the results were not posted, I updated the spec to match
<lool> GrueMaster: I thought that you could still fix it if that was incorrect -- like I just did
 * GrueMaster gives up.
<StevenK> ogra: Back in your cage!
<lool> GrueMaster: I'm not going to organize to block on you
 * ogra roars 
<ogra> :)
<lool> plars: I marked the unr checkbox stuff as implemented since the last action was to merge the test in the main branch
<GrueMaster> hey, it's 3 minutes past.  meeting over, right?
<lool> Ok ; I don't have any other questions on specs; does anybody want to raise anything?
<lool> GrueMaster: We can run a bit over this week; especially since it's beta
<lool> and there's no TB meeting after us
<lool> ian_brasil: Around?
<lool> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ian_brasil> yep
<lool> ian_brasil: Did you want to raise MID stuff?
<ian_brasil> just an update
<ian_brasil> we created the community project..worked on seeds and i have packages upstream libhildon and hildon-desktop..both fail to build ha ha but i will sort that later
<lool> ian_brasil: Did you settle on a set of goals and a codename?
<ian_brasil> not the goals yet but we have a codename
<lool> Eh ok
<ian_brasil> Liquid remix
<plars> lool: I saw, thanks.  They are both marked implemented now
<lool> ian_brasil: I think at this point it's not reasonnable to do anything in karmic, but you guys could prepare stuff in a PPA for lucid
<ian_brasil> that is what we thought
<lool> Ok; any other business?
<lool> NCommander: Still with us?  :-)
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:07.
<lool> Thanks all
<ogra> thanks
<zul> morning
<sommer> yo :)
<ttx> o/
<alexm> o/
<nijaba> \o
<zul> gday
<Daviey> o/
<nurmi> o/
<ttx> Welcome to the server team meeting...
<kirkland> o/ ttx
<jmdault> o/
<nurmi> hi all, I need a few minutes before I can join, apologies; i'll o/ when i am back
<smoser> o/
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zul> its like people are doing aerobics
<ttx> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> ACTION: Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored
<ttx> no Daviey
<Daviey> ttx: that was same day as the meeting :)
<ttx> ok cool
<ttx> ACTION: soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication
<ttx> ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query" (once publication is resolved)
<ttx> soren is away, anyone knows the status of this ?
<ttx> slangasek, maybe ^
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance
<kirkland> ttx: is that from last week?
<ttx> heh, yes
<ttx> well, carried on from the week before
<kirkland> ttx: for the prototype, i moved away from a moodle appliance for now, to a gobby server
<ttx> ok.
<kirkland> ttx: generically, we need to figure out how to make appliances out of packages that have critical debconf questions
<ttx> I might have some time tomorrow to do appliance testing, if the eucalyptus front calms down
<kirkland> ttx: that's a generic problem, which requires admin input on package installation
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about image store integration testing
<kirkland> ttx: for the appliance to be useful, all configuration should be web driven, after instantiation, according to mdz
<Daviey> kirkland: I'm happy to help aswell if that is wanted.
<kirkland> Daviey: thanks
<kirkland> cjwatson: is there a web frontend for debconf?
<kirkland> cjwatson: i seem to recall you saying at some point that various frontends can be bolted onto debconf....
<zul> yes there is i think we discussed it at the sprint in aalborg
<ttx> kirkland: soren mentionned a web frontend, yes
<cjwatson> there is, though it's not very good
<kirkland> ttx: all of those actions have been pre-empted by getting UEC to work in Karmic Beta
<cjwatson> I think it is minimally functional
<kirkland> cjwatson: could you just send me a pointer to it, when you get a chance?
<ttx> kirkland: ok.
<cjwatson> kirkland: it's in the debconf package itself
<ttx> ACTION: soren to update to latest euca2ools
<mathiaz> kirkland: we should work on the appliance stuff next week
<kirkland> cjwatson: ah, okay, thanks.
<kirkland> mathiaz: agreed
<ttx> I replaced soren on that one.
<kirkland> ttx: we need a running cloud before we can test images ;-)
<ttx> ACTION: soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests
<ttx> kirkland: working on it :)
<ttx> I don't think this was done...
<kirkland> ttx: yup, me too :-)
<ttx> Two actions on missing MIRs:
<ttx> ACTION: zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages
<zul> done
<zul> ec2-init is in main
<smoser> that was done. bug 434744.
<ttx> ok
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434744 in ubuntu "ec2 and uec images contain packages not in main" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434744
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools
<ttx> bug 435140
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435140 in euca2ools "euca2ools should provide ec2-* symlinks/alternatives" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435140
<ttx> ACTION: mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status
<ttx> That was done, he communicated basic requirements, methink
<kirkland> ttx: i think we're in sync
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist and add something to those pages which tell you who to contact about them
<kirkland> ttx: you can action mathiaz and I to work on appliance creation/generation next week in Austin
<ttx> I did poke Brian Murray by email, without much result at that point.
<ttx> kirkland: we'll do that when we'll see appliance status in roadmap
<kirkland> k
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process
<mathiaz> ttx: talked to him last week in Portland
<Daviey> ttx: hmm, i thought the previous meeting it was decided that ec2-* shouldn't be symlinked or similar to euca2ools as it wasn't quite compatiable at this stage?
<mathiaz> ttx: he is interested in being part of the process
<ttx> Daviey: the bug is the place to discuss that.
<mathiaz> ttx: I'll talk about that more during the SRU weekly review
<Daviey> oh, ok :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta release: Remaining beta-targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta release: Remaining beta-targeted bugs
<ttx> is nurmi back ?
<ttx> I prefer to have him around for that one. Lets do the next one first
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta release: Release process remaining actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta release: Release process remaining actions
<ttx> * vmbuilder: using seeds, publishing toolchain version in manifests
<ttx> I think nobody had time to work on that...
<nijaba> ttx: did not see any cmmit to do this in vmbuillder
<ttx> we might push that back to RC.
<zul> ttx: what is involved?
<ttx> zul: making vmbuilder use seeds (or germinate results) to build its package list... and generate manifests that include the vmbuidler version used, among other things
<ttx> I think its a little late for beta anyway.
<ttx> MIR all non-main packages used in images (smoser)
<zul> ttx: i might take a a crack at it
<ttx> zul: I know the seeds were pushed.
<ttx> * MIR all non-main packages used in images (smoser)
<ttx> that was done...
<smoser> vmbuilder does use seed uec-images
<smoser> err.. whatever that seed was called.
<ttx> ah.
<smoser> mdz had asked that vmbuilder's version be included in the manifest
<ttx> smoser: that's not done yet, right
<smoser> that is less straighttforward, as we're currently building with vmbuilder trunk.
<ttx> ok, that might slip to RC.
<ttx> * Publish ec2-version-query in a appropriate place (soren)
<smoser> that has yet to happen
<smoser> afaik
<ttx> * Automate image publishing and ec2-version-query refresh (smoser)
<smoser> not done.
<nurmi> o/
<ttx> smoser: is image publishing automated in /some/ways ?
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/Publishing
<smoser> "some"
<ttx> ok, we'll need to review that.
<smoser> i spent yesterday working on some publish scripts. http://smoser.brickies.net/git/?p=misc-starter-tools.git
<smoser> with the goal of moving towards being ready to work right away as soon as we get some access to amazon from data center
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> Anything that needs to be done on the release management side for beta release ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta release: Remaining beta-targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta release: Remaining beta-targeted bugs
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress]
<ttx> kirkland: I think this one should be untargeted now
<kirkland> ttx: i agree
<ttx> please retarget to next
<kirkland> ttx: done
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/429106 (smoser)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429106 in vm-builder "kernel and initramfs should be available for uec" [Medium,Fix committed]
<ttx> smoser: it's disputed if it's really a good idea right now, right ?
<smoser> that is fix-commited, and images are available, although not ideally named for client pulling (or documentation)
<smoser> i dont think its disputed. slangesek just impllied that we need to make sure we can fulfill gpl source requirements on the stuff
<ttx> smoser: is there a bug open to track that ?
<smoser> is marked committed and not released because its not in vmbuilder that is in karmic
<smoser> i guess i should open 2 bugs.
<ttx> (the gpl reqs)
<smoser> 1 for gpl reqs
<smoser> 1 for renaming output or re-ordering
<ttx> [ACTION] smoser to open bugs to cover kernel/ramdisk GPL reqs and renaming
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to open bugs to cover kernel/ramdisk GPL reqs and renaming
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/438747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438747 in eucalyptus "Instances do not run because /var/run/eucalyptus/net is missing" [High,Triaged]
<ttx> That one is the latest eyucalyptus issue uncovered in my testing
<ttx> its quite easy to fix and is needed for beta
<ttx> though I might need someone to push the fix, upload get the exception and the respin
<ttx> since I intend to have some evening left
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/438602
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438602 in eucalyptus "Autoregistration sometimes fails" [High,Fix released]
<ttx> This one is more tricky
<ttx> We want autoregistration to work for beta
<ttx> but... whatever we do it seems that eucalyptus randomly fails to accept it
<mathiaz> ttx: yeah - I ran into the same issue
<mathiaz> ttx: none of my test installs actually worked correclty
<ttx> nurmi: any clue ?
<ttx> We run registration after getting some response from port 8443
<mathiaz> ttx: I suspect an issue with the upstart job
<nurmi> ttx: the last UEC iso I tried last night was kind of hard to figure out
<ttx> nurmi: yes, try the 20090929.2
<mathiaz> ttx: ex: the walrus-registration would start and failed but the cc-registration job would not even start
<nurmi> ttx: okay, i'll try that
<ttx> nurmi: if I run "sudo eucalyptus stop / sudo eucalyptus start" 10 times in a row, it would succeed to autoregister the 8th time
<kirkland> mathiaz: ttx: fwiw, i just installed fresh; walrus successfully auto registered; cluster did not
<ttx> kirkland: yes, that's what I got with 20090929.2
<ttx> cluster and sc fail
<nurmi> ttx: i think i need the latest iso, my 'start eucalyptus-cloud' commands were hanging forever yesterday
<kirkland> ttx: confirmed
<ttx> kirkland: could you debug that with nurmi and push the fix if you find any ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: is there a log file in /var/log/eucalyptus/cc-registration?
<ttx> at that point I'd say if we don't manage to fix it today, it should be a beta known issue
<nurmi> interesting, the only difference between walrus and cc/sc is that the cc/sc registration commands require a 'cluster name'
<mathiaz> kirkland: I would first make sure that the upstart job is started correclty
<nurmi> i.e. euca_conf --register-cluster <cluster-name> <ip>
<kirkland> mathiaz: that log does not exist
<ttx> nurmi: it also uses localhost instead of the IP
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - I suspect that the upstart job is not even started
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'd add a pre-script to check whether the job is actually started
<ttx> which might be the reason, actually.
<mathiaz> kirkland: and bug Keybuck about debugging upstart
<ttx> let's not debug that during the meeting
 * mathiaz agrees
<nurmi> ttx: ah, well, that is most likely the issue; in upstream, you cannot register 'localhost', as we discussed a few days ago; mdz said that ubuntu had patched the system to allow localhost registration
<kirkland> ttx: okay, so i'll debug the cc auto registration
<mathiaz> kirkland: we can debug this later
<kirkland> ttx: and sync with mathiaz and nurmi
<ttx> kirkland: might make sense to try to use the walrus IP inside cc and sc-registration.conf
 * nurmi agrees
<ttx> lets talk about that later
<ttx> Anything else that should be targeted for beta ?
<ttx> Hopefully, nothing...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review / Eucalyptus
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review / Eucalyptus
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus
<ttx> thanks to a huge triage effort by kirkland, the buglist is actually usable now.
<ttx> we dalready discussed what could be brought after beta for the release
<ttx> I'm more scared by the bugs we don't know (the ones we find in testing)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review / UEC - EC2 bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review / UEC - EC2 bugs
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<ttx> smoser: comments ?
<smoser> http://tinyurl.com/yazgzzf link is "all bugs targetted to beta with ec2-images or uec-images in a tag"
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/yazgzzf link is "all bugs targetted to beta with ec2-images or uec-images in a tag"
<smoser> all of those are fixed as far as i know
<zul> i just like to bring up that amazon has released a new version of ec2-api-tools which add better ebs and also adds vpn support I was going to ask for a FFE but I dont know how well it works with eucalyptus
<ttx> smoser: sounds good. I did not have time to carefully review them
<smoser> the most difficult bug of anything still open is bug 428692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428692 in ubuntu "ec2 kernel needs CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and other config changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428692
<ttx> zul: I think that's not for beta anyway... and maybe not for release
<zul> ttx: I can just throw it in a ppa and upload it for lucid
<smoser> the only karmic related bug there with medium or > priority that isn't on track for being fixed in karmic is bug 407949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407949 in ec2-init "ec2-init: ec2-set-defaults needs better defaults for non US/EU regions" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407949
<ttx> zul: that won't hurt.
<zul> ttx: okie dokie
<ttx> smoser: I tested images on my karmic UEC today, worked. I still have to test the kernel/ramdisk you produce though
<ttx> smoser: thanks for the update.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
<ttx> kirkland, niemeyer: what's the plan ?
<smoser> i think we're actually looking pretty good now (although i fear i've said that bfore)
<kirkland> ttx: i'm confident gobby will work well
<kirkland> ttx: as it has a very hands off, unattended installation
<niemeyer> ttx: The proxy should be in pretty good state now..
<kirkland> ttx: mdz raised a question about persistent storage configuration, which i have not yet solved
<kirkland> ttx: but that's the case for most any appliance
<ttx> kirkland/niemeyer: at one point you need to sync on how to intgerate one with the other
<mathiaz> niemeyer: did you get a chance to look at bug 436896?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436896 in image-store-proxy "Signature tests are disabled - gpg command calls should use homedir option" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436896
<ttx> integrate, even
<niemeyer> ttx: I just have to work a bit on the server side.. waiting for the server infrastructure for this
<kirkland> ttx: as for moodle, wordpress, others, we need to establish the process by which we handle debconf
<ttx> niemeyer: any ETA on infra ?
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Oh yeah, thanks for reporting this.. I'll provide you with a fix in the next couple of days
<kirkland> ttx: i'm going to have a look at the web frontend for debconf that colin mentioned
<niemeyer> ttx: Not really.. should already have been made available by now, so at any time
<ttx> kirkland: ok. You mentioned a sprint ?
<mathiaz> niemeyer: the key is to test without a ~/.gnupg/ directory
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Cool, I'll make sure to check this out
<mathiaz> niemeyer: and making sure that it's not created afterwards
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Any other issues about 1.0, or is it all good?
<mathiaz> niemeyer: well - I haven't been able to complete a full test
<mathiaz> niemeyer: as there isn't a server side yet
<mathiaz> niemeyer: is the fakeproxy actually able to push images?
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Cool, please note that you can fake the server side
<niemeyer> mathiaz: The fakestoreapi.py can fake the server side entirely
<kirkland> ttx: potentially a mini sprint
<niemeyer> mathiaz: I'll send you and nurmi a mail later with details on how to test this
 * ttx adds a few missing actions...
<kirkland> ttx: mathiaz will be in Austin anyway
<mathiaz> niemeyer: ok - thanks.
<kirkland> ttx: i'm trying to convince nurmi to come down too :-)
<nurmi> niemeyer: nod, thanks
<kirkland> ttx: i reckon the 3 of us could kick some post-beta butt
<niemeyer> nurmi: I've seen your mail, btw, was just catching up after holidays to send you these details
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to fix bug 438747, maybe bug 438602, package and push a respin with that package in
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to fix bug 438747, maybe bug 438602, package and push a respin with that package in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438747 in eucalyptus "Instances do not run because /var/run/eucalyptus/net is missing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438602 in eucalyptus "Autoregistration sometimes fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438602
<nurmi> kirkland: actively working on it :)
<kirkland> nurmi: ack ;-)
<niemeyer> nurmi: I have a new assignment to do a few tweaks in the UI.. we should catch up about this at some point
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to test UEC images + UEC kernel/ramdisk on karmic UEC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to test UEC images + UEC kernel/ramdisk on karmic UEC
<nurmi> niemeyer: thank you, I can't wait to check it out
<ttx> [TOPIC] Other specs from the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other specs from the Roadmap
<niemeyer> nurmi: I hope to have a patch by the end of the week for appreciation
<ttx> I think at that point only the late specs (that we covered) are to be considered
<ttx> especially with asterisk done, iiuc
<nurmi> niemeyer: sounds good, please send me email if you're blocking or could use testing/integration
<ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<ttx> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<niemeyer> nurmi: Awesome, thanks a lot
<ttx> I'll have a look at the bugs assigned to soren to see if something needs to be reassigned before he comes back
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to see if some bugs assigned to soren need urgent reassignment
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to see if some bugs assigned to soren need urgent reassignment
<ttx> any other comments on that list ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
 * ttx lies back and enjoys mathiaz taking over
<ttx> (please :)
<mathiaz> right - so let's go through the list of bugs
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<zul> the nut init script bug is probably a good candidate for jaunty i have to check though
<mathiaz> any bugs worth SRU in the list?
<mathiaz> zul: bug number?
<mathiaz> bug 416182
<zul> #416182	
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416182 in nut "nut init script reports incorrect status" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416182
<Daviey> Wow eucalyptus is a large part.
<mathiaz> Daviey: yeah - that's kirkland's work
<mathiaz> Daviey: we can probaly ignore most of them
<ttx> yes we can
<zul> mathiaz: none of the php5 ones
<mathiaz> there is bug 404394
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404394 in kvm "qcow2 corruption regression" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404394
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^ which I've hit on my server
<mathiaz> kirkland: (hardy - with the kvm 84 backport)
<mathiaz> kirkland: I can't use karmic guest + qcow2 + virtio
<mathiaz> zul: bug 424719?
<ubottu> Bug 424719 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/424719 is private
<kirkland> arg
<kirkland> mathiaz: i haven't had much time to look at that
<kirkland> s/much/any/
<mathiaz> kirkland: understood
<zul> mathiaz: yeah its a bit hard to reproduce though for SRU testing
<mathiaz> allright - any bugs apart the nut init script SRU worthy from the list above?
<Daviey> Does that one need to be private?
<zul> just a sec
<zul> Daviey: it isnt now
<mathiaz> zul: bug 416182 would be worth accepting for which release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416182 in nut "nut init script reports incorrect status" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416182
<mathiaz> zul: hardy?
<zul> jaunty i think
<mathiaz> zul: and what's the importance?
<zul> low
<Daviey> thanks zul
<mathiaz> zul: ok - jaunty+low -> we can live with it
<mathiaz> anything else?
<zul> nope
<zul> not from me
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on to the next list
<mathiaz> http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> nothing
<mathiaz> http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> nothing
<mathiaz> http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> nothing
<mathiaz> http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<Daviey> wouldn't seem SRU worthy to me?
<mathiaz> bug 356905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 356905 in rabbitmq-server "rabbitmq-server: new upstream release fixes serious bugs " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356905
<zul> uh...its fixed in jaunty
<mathiaz> zul: right - declining
<mathiaz> that's all for the nominated bugs
<mathiaz> let's move on to the next list
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> this is the list of accepted bugs that have an assignee
<mathiaz> ie someone working *actively* on preparing an sRU
<mathiaz> zul: what's the state of all your bugs?
<zul> most of those are in -proposed and need testers
<mathiaz> kirkland: bug 332156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332156 in kvm "Network issues with hardy guests/hosts, using default nic and virtio" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332156
<mathiaz> kirkland: still working on an SRU for it?
<kirkland> mathiaz: no, not really
<kirkland> mathiaz: should be fixed in the backport
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll note it
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - and unassign yourself from the bug if necessary
<Daviey> hmm, are we allowed to fix release via backport?
<kirkland> Daviey: not usually
<kirkland> Daviey: but for kvm, i've been doing so, as these bugs are not fixable otherwise
<mathiaz> zul: bug 382136?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382136 in samba "Smbd startup failure caused by a failure to create an NT token for the guest account." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382136
<zul> i need to look at that again
<mathiaz> ok - that's all for this list
<mathiaz> on to the next
<mathiaz> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+requestedreviews
<ttx> ew
<Daviey> 404?
<mathiaz> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+activereviews
<mathiaz> so no one is using pkg branches for reviews
<ttx> mathiaz: no more lists ?
<mathiaz> ttx: nope - I ran out
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20resources
<ttx> [TOPIC] 2009 Server survey status and call for action. (nijaba)
<MootBot> New Topic:  2009 Server survey status and call for action. (nijaba)
<mathiaz> ttx: ah - no
<mathiaz> ttx: I just wanted to reiterate
<nijaba> ttx: so I have prepared a new version of the survey
<mathiaz> ttx: that we're trying to use package branches for SRU
<nijaba> ttx: and it is now time for review
<nijaba> background: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Survey
<ttx> nijaba: who should review ?
<nijaba> aynone interested in the community
<nijaba> I have put a test server in place: http://admin.barcet.com:8084/limesurvey
<ttx> yay, let's slashdot that
<nijaba> bugs should be reported on https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-survey/+filebug
<Daviey> nijaba: suggestions to https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-survey/+filebug ?
<ttx> Daviey: you read minds
<nijaba> Daviey: yes please
<ttx> nijaba: anything else ?
<nijaba> nope
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> I've one thing I forgot to mention in the agenda
<ttx> About https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Eucalyptus
<ttx> its quite outdated especially now that we push usage of the UEC installer from the CD
<ttx> if someone has some time to refresh it...
<ttx> see http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerECluster
<ttx> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerENode
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerENode
<ttx> and http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerEConfig
<Daviey> ttx: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Eucalyptus is still valid for Jaunty, so perhaps the pages need to be forked.. for a karmic and jaunty one?
<ttx> the last part shoudl probably be rewritten from the perspective of running imaghes from a client rather than from the cluster itself
<ttx> Daviey: "Note: Please see Eucalyptus-Jaunty for documentation covering Eucalyptus on Ubuntu 9.04. "
<ttx> at the top of the page
<Daviey> "whoops"
<ttx> those testcases should help in getting started
<ttx> we refresh those instructions to correspond to the moving status in eucalyptus
<ttx> anyone up to the challenge ?
 * ttx ponders writing a blog post after beta
<ttx> Any other subject for Open Discussion ?
<Daviey> Yes!
 * alexm offers himself as doc tester
<alexm> i'm interested in eucalyptus but i don't know where to start :(
<ttx> alexm: the test cases should get you there. Minus the critical bugs we still have to fix :)
<Daviey> I'll try and contribute to the wiki page, but i can't commit to doing the whole thing.
<alexm> s/doc tester/doc reviewer/
<ttx> Daviey: ok, we'll do it wikistyle
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<Daviey> Currently we are installing -pae on 32bit and -server on amd64.. However, we don't install the linux-headers for the kernel installed/
<Daviey> ttx: wait 1
<ttx> done
<alexm> ttx: we're talking about test cases running on karmic, i guess
<Daviey> dkms isn't installed by default.. and when dkms IS installed on a server it installs the -generic kernel
<Daviey> this is bad.
<ttx> alexm: karmic on karmic on karmic, yes
<alexm> ok, thanks :)
<Daviey> bug 433712 is related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433712 in ubuntu-meta "DKMS should be available on the ubuntu-server CD pool" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433712
<Daviey> damn you kirkland
<ttx> Daviey: is there a bug filed on that specific issue ?
<Daviey> ttx: no, only came to light this morning and wasn't sure how to proceed.
<kirkland> Daviey: huh?
<Daviey> kirkland: sorry, i thought you fixed the issue just now.. as the status has changed to Fixed Released
<kirkland> Daviey: no i just marked it fix released, since dkms is already on the server cd
<kirkland> Daviey: which is what superm1 was askign for
<Daviey> kirkland: sure.
<Daviey> but installing dkms doesn't pull in the correct kernel for what the server iso installs.
<ttx> Daviey: if there is a persisting bug, just file one, please
<mathiaz> Daviey: right - kirkland run into the same issue with the kvm backport in hardy
<Daviey> ttx: will do.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<kirkland> yeah
<mathiaz> Daviey: AFICT there isn't a way to fix it in apt
<ttx> soren started a discussion about moving the time of the meeting.
<ttx> I'd like all the usual suspects to submit their preferences, otherwise we might pick up a time that will not please you
<Daviey> could http://www.doodle.com/ help with this?
<ttx> Daviey: certainly.
 * ttx frowns at entering his email in one more place
 * alexm hasn't replied because thinks that key team members should speak first
<ttx> now that the discussion started on the list, its probably good to continue on the list
<alexm> ttx: there's no need to register for using doodle
 * mathiaz agrees
<ttx> If Doodle is ok with everyone... Daviey could you reply to the thread and set it up ?
<Daviey> wilco
<ttx> mathiaz: with what ?
<mathiaz> Daviey: I'm not sure how doodle will help
<mathiaz> Daviey: you'd have to enter 24 different options
<mathiaz> Daviey: and we'd have to vote for each of them
<ttx> that's 2 * -1 against Doodle, lets do it UTC + ML style
<Daviey> mathiaz: you put in the time that is suitable(s)
<mathiaz> Daviey: http://www.doodle.com/BSP6n4bmdzyg5c3g
<mathiaz> Daviey: that seems like the creator of the poll creating the different options
<mathiaz> I'll reply to the ML thread.
<mathiaz> and then someone can sort it out
<Daviey> ok
<ttx> ok then
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:33.
<ttx> mathiaz: i was wondering if we could cycle in writig the minutes
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<ttx> mathiaz: much appreciated, thx
<Daviey> thanks
<bjf> Roll Call
<amitk_> \o
 * ogasawara waves
<lieb> hi
 * rtg waves
 * jjohansen waves
 * sconklin is here
<bjf> no apw, nor pgraner this week
 * cking_ here
 * csurbhi1 waves
<smb> \o
 * manjo waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targe
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targe
<ogasawara>  * Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara>  * RC Milestoned Bugs Beta (17 kernel bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12715
<ogasawara>  * Release Targeted Bugs (15 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-9.10-beta
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> bjf: Nothing new to report
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> I talked to marjo about getting some testing done. I'm gonna upload it this week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (anyone since apw is out)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (anyone since apw is out)
<rtg> there are some AA components that need fixing, but will get kees or jjohansen to work on that
<bjf> sorry, little quick there
<rtg> all done
<bjf> any kms status?
<rtg> KMS is getting some love with the next upload (for Intel that is)
<rtg> as soon as slangasek approves the kernel package
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<smb> I would say that one is done. But I have to do the final edits in the spec. Hopefully tomorrow.
<bjf> smb, you want me to remove it from the agenda?
<smb> leave it there to remind me in case I do not get t edit the spec
<bjf> smb, ack
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<manjo> nothing to update
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> well I have a couple known bugs to fix
<jjohansen> bug 427948
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427948 in apparmor "network operations not getting reported on karmic" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427948
<jjohansen> I need to test and push the patch for
<bjf> jjohansen, how is your progress on upstreaming?
<jjohansen> I posted to LSM, and overall it has gone well, but I am waiting on more comments as people clear mail queue from plumbers
<jjohansen> I have a couple questions I need to answer
<jjohansen> and have pulled in some changes.
<jjohansen> 1, fix that I need to push into karmic
<bjf> jjohansen, is that it?
<jjohansen> I need to look at capability setting more, and come up with a solution that allows dropping caps
<jjohansen> apparmor got pushed into initramfs this last week
<jjohansen> that caused some breakage, but kees did the patches
<kees> afak, all the bugs from that are fixed
<jjohansen> AA was pushed into initramfs so that policy could be loaded before parallel boot
<jjohansen> yep
<jjohansen> we will need to change the solution in the future, but that waits on full upstartification
<jjohansen> I think that is it
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<amitk_> * bug 438687 - need to fix fec ethernet to set the DRIVER property of N-M to work
<bjf> Marvell is pretty stable, some new changes, some rebasing... got a Y1 reference board
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438687 in network-manager "FEC driver does not set "DRIVER" property in udev which makes network-manager fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438687
<amitk_> * bug 418238 - (fixed) fec ethernet driver
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418238 in linux-fsl-imx51 "Ethernet (FEC) not functional on Babbage with 2.6.31" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418238
<amitk_> * bug 427289 - investigating RTC problems with imx51
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427289 in linux-fsl-imx51 "hardware clock not saved if board power is removed on babbage 2.5" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427289
<amitk_> * bug 319729 - debugging pselect/ppoll with jk at the sprint, continuing study of glibc wrappers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319729 in linux-fsl-imx51 "ARM architecture lacks support for pselect() and ppoll()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319729
<amitk_> those bugs are taking up my time ATM
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status
<jjohansen> I need to finish bisecting the virtual style config problems
<rtg> I rebased ec2 against 2.6.31-11.36 and uploaded last night
<jjohansen> rtg: thanks, smoser was real happy to get that
<rtg> the primary reason was for an LSB test failure
<rtg> jjohansen, I think its still in the waiting-to-be-approved queue
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<rtg> I've been messing with scheduler settings.
<rtg> the I/O CFQ was kind of broken, but an upstream cherry-pick has helped it out a lot
<rtg> It'll make the next upload.
<rtg> other then that, some i915 enablement and performance fixes.
<rtg> 2.6.31.1 stable updates
<rtg> thats about it.
<amitk_> rtg: are you reverting back to CFQ then?
<rtg> amitk_, I don't think so, perhaps we can swizzle it from userspace.
<rtg> the sysv-init package has been suggested as theright place
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.60 (updates)
<smb>             2.6.24-24.61 (proposed)[0] (0/2 verifications)
<smb>             (accepted 11 days ago but stuck in binary new until today)
<smb>             LUM-2.6.24-24.41 (updates)
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.41 (updates)
<smb> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.52 (updates)
<smb> So beside of Hardy, proposed is surprisingly empty. Which should make the
<smb> upcoming security work a bit simpler.
<bjf> i've rebased the fsl-imx51 topic branch (Jaunty) and will issue a pull request soon
 * smb takes that of his todo list.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<rtg> bjf, I'm working on the Karmic pull request for mvl-dove right now
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> 1 regression-potential bug this week (just needs to add a module to the d-i sata-modules file)
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<rtg> ogasawara, bug number? I can fix it quickly
<ogasawara> Today's bug day - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/BugDay/20090929
<ogasawara> Current stats can be seen at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090929.html
<ogasawara> rtg: yup, just a sec and I'll get it
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/434827?comments=all
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434827 in linux "karmic alpha6 alternate: Failure to detect Via VT6420 SATA controller" [Medium,Triaged]
<ogasawara> rtg: ^^
<bjf> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Open Week (rtg)
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Open Week (rtg)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<rtg> ogasawara, you have a topic picked out?
<ogasawara> rtg: no topic in particular just yet, but reserved my time slot
<ogasawara> rtg: like something Kernel QA related
<ogasawara> s/like/likely/
<rtg> is anyone else on the kernel team interested in conducting a session?
<rtg> well, if you are then go to that page and sign up.
<ogasawara> rtg: you'll likely have to "volunteer" others :)
<jjohansen> I could do an AA session
<rtg> jjohansen, works for me. thanks.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<jjohansen> csurbhi: AppArmor
<csurbhi> ok
<csurbhi> thanks
<jjohansen> or Alcoholics Anonymous ;)
<bjf> going once ....
<bjf> going twice ...
<bjf> done!
<smb> \o/
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
<amitk_> thanks folks
<rtg> ciao
<lieb> bye
<csurbhi> ciao
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-09-30
 * james_w waves
<evand> hiya
 * mterry waits until #startmeeting
<cjwatson> hi
<james_w> what's the main airport for Dallas?
<james_w> Fort Worth?
<robbiew> hello
<robbiew> DFW
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * robbiew apologizes for no agenda...up past 4am working on xsplash bug :/
<Keybuk> robbiew: congrats on the bug fix ;)
<mterry> hello all
 * robbiew has to keep is "street cred" with the developers from time to time ;)
<cjwatson> ehlo
<highvoltage> helo
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> is slangasek off today?
 * robbiew should probably know that :/
<cjwatson> he was around earlier ...
<robbiew> so what do we have scheduled for Beta release?
<robbiew> anything slip out?
<robbiew> feature wise
<cjwatson> let's see, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<doko__> hi
<mterry> I think technically my 'oem-config improvements' spec slipped, but that was expected.  remaining work should be deferred
<robbiew> eh...I don't count that ;)
<cjwatson> boot performance; archive reorg; deb/rsync; kerneloops; oem-config; wubi updates
<robbiew> I think BootPerf can be considered done
<cjwatson> deb/rsync and wubi updates were deferred
<robbiew> just fixing bugs now
<robbiew> kerneloops is done
<cjwatson> major change expected from archive reorg this cycle is done though we're still working on ongoing changes
<robbiew> nice
<Keybuk> I'm quite pleased with the SSD boot performance
<cjwatson> mvo: more-robust-python-packaging, we should settle the status of that task on releasestatus/karmic one way or another
<cjwatson> I think everything else is as out of the way as it's supposed to be
<mvo> cjwatson: its partly done, party defered, I would lean toward defered
<robbiew> james_w: are you expecting anymore progress with regard to Dist Dev or Daily Builds?
<robbiew> or are we "done" for this cycle
 * slangasek holds the network wires together with one hand and waves with the other
<james_w> hopefully
<robbiew> heh
<james_w> nothing in the archive though
<Keybuk> slangasek: I feel your pain
<highvoltage> slangasek: isn't that what teeth are for?
<robbiew> Keybuk: is the  Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart stuff done?
<Keybuk> robbiew: no
<robbiew> will it be for 9.10 :P
<Keybuk> probably not ;)
<Keybuk> because it'd be changed again by 10.04 :P
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> ok...will defer
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to defer Packaging and Upgrade Policy for Upstart
<robbiew> and where are we at with bug 432089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432089 in sreadahead "performs poorly on slow HDD" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432089
<robbiew> Keybuk: ^
<Keybuk> deferred
<Keybuk> cf. my comment there
<cjwatson> well, deferred though substantially improved, right ...
<cjwatson> (door)
<Keybuk> the deadline scheduler change does certainly improve it
<Keybuk> amongst other things
<Keybuk> the real problem is that HDD performance optimisation is *hard*
<Keybuk> sreadahead is "at least as good" as readahead-list on HDD
<Keybuk> though I wouldn't use the word "good" there
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> my main fear was regressing people with HDDs
<robbiew> if we can say we haven't done that...then I'm okay
<Keybuk> I've not seen any evidence that it's worse
<robbiew> yeah...there's the usual "stories" of people claiming slowness
<robbiew> but without bootcharts to back it up...nothing we can do
<Keybuk> indeed
<Keybuk> and yes, jaunty boots faster
<Keybuk> but jaunty did not have couch potato based fat bastard db
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> I thought they were fixing that
<robbiew> slangasek: did you get any late fixes around couch?
<robbiew> for beta?
<james_w> system daemon, or per-user?
<james_w> I believe the default install no longer starts the former
<slangasek> robbiew: there were some uploads, but they arrived late in the beta freeze with nothing I could see that was beta-critical
<slangasek> (in fact, the one bug report that was being tracked was a non-bug)
<robbiew> nice
<robbiew> ok
<james_w> the previous upload was the one that was supposed to fix that
<slangasek> so those are in the queue and will be released post-beta
<robbiew> james_w: so I shouldn't see couchdb start at all? or does it start after user-login?
<james_w> robbiew: it will start in your session if something uses it
 * slangasek nods
<james_w> but perhaps the fix for the system daemon was incomplete
<robbiew> hmmm
<slangasek> "perhaps"?
 * Keybuk hasn't looked in the last week
<james_w> just hypothesising, I believe the system daemon shouldn't start on the beta images
<Keybuk> it doesn
<Keybuk> argh US keyboard
<Keybuk> it doesn't look like it started on this
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> cjwatson: so are we looking better for the cloud installer stuff
 * robbiew backs away to avoid a swing by cjwatson :P
<cjwatson> there are some startup race difficulties at the moment, which ttx and kirkland are working
<cjwatson> and Keybuk commented on a short while ago in #ubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> the installer as such seems to be largely OK no
<cjwatson> w
<cjwatson> it's eucalyptus itself and its startup that are busted
<robbiew> right...I saw that, thanks
<Keybuk> yeah, and the eucalyptus scripts are doing strange things that I don't even know the behaviour of ;)
<cjwatson> what was strange about eucalyptus-cloud BTW?
<cjwatson> just the timeout?
<Keybuk> it uses a post-start script
<cjwatson> I already suggested to mdz that that should use respawn limit
<Keybuk> without any main process, etc.
<Keybuk> I'm not even sure that works
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I commented on that yesterday, and ion immediately said it worked
<cjwatson> or was supposed to
<Keybuk> and I'm certainly not sure of upstart's behaviour when it exits ;)
<cjwatson> now, he might have been wrong, I didn't check further after that
<Keybuk> since there are bugs in RECENT upstart history which resulted in a kernel panic when using post-start, it's not very well tested code <g>
<cjwatson> hah
<Keybuk> why is it post-start anyway?
<cjwatson> poke ion for me, then ;)
<Keybuk> I couldn't find any reason why it shouldn't be pre-start
<Keybuk> in fact, if you don't have a main process, there really isn't much difference between pre-start and post-start
<cjwatson> I don't know of a good reason for that, no
<cjwatson> mdz just said "it worked for me" when I asked about it
<Keybuk> :D
<Keybuk> I guess I need someone to explain to me what they're trying to do
<kirkland> Keybuk: cjwatson: if it helps, i have the precise order that the scripts should run, according to nurmi
<Keybuk> kirkland: that would help
<robbiew> ok...I don't have anything else
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News?
 * robbiew can still use gdb :P
<Keybuk> I inadvertently tested the GRUB2 menu on recovery feature
<Keybuk> and it worked
<liw> my home file server's 8 hard disks and SATA controller haven't totally failed yet!
<Keybuk> "oh, that's odd, I got the GRUB menu ... ah, it failed to boot"
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> Keybuk: (might be nice if it told you why it was showing the grub menu, but I haven't figured out how yet ...)
<mterry> Ah, is that why I've been given the grub menu?  :)
<mterry> I thought the timeout got removed somehow
<cjwatson> I think I nailed about 75% of the remaining clock handling bugs in the installer
<Keybuk> yeah
<cjwatson> this is your weekly dose of extremely qualified good news
<Keybuk> sadly the reason I failed to boot was one of the other 25% :)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: hmm?
<Keybuk> I actually, genuinely, think there might be another ext4 bug here
<Keybuk> it doesn't look like it updates the last mount time timestamp when you *unmount*
<Keybuk> so if you boot with a fast clock
<mvo> I managed to spend time on something other than softtware-center last week
<Keybuk> and ntpdate fixes it
<cjwatson> I also have plans to actively compare NTP with the hardware clock + timezone, and try to guess better
<Keybuk> then on shutdown we fix the hardware clock to be right
<robbiew> mvo: \o/
<Keybuk> but unmounting the ext4 filesystem doesn't fix that
<Keybuk> so you reboot with a mount time in the future
<cjwatson> but ext4 is bug-free!
<cjwatson> ahem
<kirkland> Keybuk: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/282246/
<Amaranth> mvo: now you can help with compiz stuff instead ;)
<slangasek> good news: I can almost make nfs-common start via upstart
<slangasek> stopping is another matter
<mterry> heh
<mvo> Amaranth: heh :)
<robbiew> Amaranth: uh...no
<Keybuk> kirkland: right
<Keybuk> if they're supposed to run in series, these conf files won't do that :p
<Keybuk> slangasek: hmm?
<slangasek> Keybuk: I was prodding at bug #431248... did you not get my voicemail? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431248 in portmap "NFS not mounted" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431248
<Keybuk> I don't have voicemail?
 * Keybuk turned it off
<slangasek> oh cool
<james_w> kayak.co.uk makes looking for flights significantly less painful
<Keybuk> the trick to those is to break nfs-common into lots of different conf files
<Keybuk> thus /etc/init/rpc.statd.conf
<slangasek> too bad the message isn't turned off, inviting me to leave one :P
<Keybuk> etc.
<slangasek> Keybuk: yes, I'm aware
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> it's slow going though, to keep my eyes from bleeding too much
<slangasek> (from the existing nfs-common code)
<kirkland> Keybuk: well, theoretically some of these can run in parallel, but the euca guys aren't comfortable with that; they've long trusted their series of init scripts
<robbiew> okay...I think we're done.  Don't forget to setup your travel for the release sprint (if you are attending) and UDS
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<liw> slangasek, ifyou turn off your monitor, your eyes will bleed less
<slangasek> thanks
<Keybuk> kirkland: OOI, why was this converted to Upstart?
<james_w> thanks all
<liw> muchas gracias
<mvo> thanks
<kirkland> Keybuk: i expected to convert to upstart for Lucid, mdz decided to do it immediately
<mterry> ta
<kirkland> Keybuk: i'm not positive of his rationale, but i suspect it's something along the lines of "those init scripts were an absolute mess"
<kirkland> Keybuk: and that we thought we could enforce the dependencies better using upstart
 * fader_ waves.
<marjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> Hi folks!
<marjo> QA Team Meeting Agenda
<davmor2> hello
<marjo> Agenda:
<marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo>     * Bugday highlights -- bdmurray (Brian Murray)
<pedro_> hola!
<marjo> Are there any new topics you want to add to the agenda?
<sbeattie> *cough* beta testing *cough*
<marjo> ah, but of course!
<davmor2> just don't mention wubi
<marjo> ouch
<fader_> Wubi?  Never heard of it O:-)
<pedro_> heh
<marjo> #topic SRU Testing - sbeattie
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Testing
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-16):
<sbeattie> * Jaunty: 5 new packages in -proposed (apport, dbconfig-common, language-packs, net-snmp, pythonmagick) and 8 packages pushed to -updates (apport, dbconfig-common, firefox-3.5, gitosis, kdenetwork, linux, opencity, xulrunner-1.9.1)
<sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and no packages pushed to -updates
<sbeattie> * Hardy: 1 new package in -proposed (net-snmp) and 1 package pushed to -updates (linux-ubuntu-modules)
<sbeattie> * Dapper: no changes this week
<sbeattie> sorry, since 2009-09-23
<sbeattie> Thanks to Alok Kataria, A. Karl Kornel, Pascal DANEK, stgraber, and Jeremy Wilkins for testing SRU packages this week.
<marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
<sbeattie> That's it for SRUs this week.
<marjo> thx
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> I think that agenda item is stale / left-over from last week's meeting.
<marjo> oops, sorry
<bdmurray> No problem, I should have looked at it in advance too.
<marjo> ara: are you able to give Beta status?
<marjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Beta Testing Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Beta Testing Status
<ara> yes, the server is a bit slow now, as it has been respun a couple of times due to a UEC bug
<ara> but the rest is looking good
<marjo> Yeah!
<ara> we shouldn't expect (finger x'ed) another respin
<ara> but we do need help in testing the untested test cases
<ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//inprogress
<marjo> ara: is it true only moblin remix is untested!?
<ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
<ara> marjo, no, wrong link
<ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/inprogress
<ara> those two
<marjo> ah, got it!
<fader_> FYI I'm pulling down the kubuntu DVD now and will start on some of those tests shortly
<fader_> *amd64
<marjo> Folks: Can anyone on the meeting help out?
 * pedro_ starts to sync ubuntu studio i386
<cr3> marjo: I'll make sure automated testing is poised for tomorrow
<marjo> fader, pedro, cr3: thx!
<fader_> ^^ And I plan to head into Lexington tomorrow to hit the netbooks there :)
 * sbeattie is working on xubuntu and ubuntu-server upgrade tests
<davmor2> I'm about to have tea then kill the last of the ubuntu alternate tests.  Then kill edubuntu then whatever is left
<marjo> looking forward to good beta test coverage
<marjo> sbeattie, fader: thx
<marjo> davmor2: great!
<marjo> any ideas on how to get upgrade coverage?
<sbeattie> that's what I'm working on
<marjo> thx!
<davmor2> marjo: edubuntu is being respun to kill sbeatties bug
<davmor2> looks like it was just a seed issue
<marjo> davmor2: yes, as you suspected
<marjo> or hoped for
 * Riddell hugs fader_ 
<marjo> ara: if everyone does what they just said, what would be left uncovered?
<fader_> :D
<ara> well, upgrades needs more people, I guess
<marjo> sbeattie: how much of the upgades list can you cover?
<marjo> download info Upgrade Edubuntu amd64 (20090929)  	0/1  	
<marjo> download info Upgrade Edubuntu i386 (20090929) 	0/1 	
<marjo> download info Upgrade Kubuntu amd64 (20090929) 	0/1 	
<marjo> download info Upgrade Ubuntu Server amd64 (20090930) 	0/1 	
<marjo> download info Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 (20090929) 	0/1 	
<marjo> download info Upgrade Xubuntu i386 (20090929) 	0/1
<ara> marjo, and also, when edubuntu is done, we need to retest
<sbeattie> marjo: I'm working on 3 of those 6 right now, will move to other 3 when I'm finished with these.
<marjo> sbeattie: nice!
<fader_> sbeattie: Out of curiosity, do you have images of previous installs handy that you might be able to share?
<fader_> E.g. put on a server somewhere?
<fader_> (I'm assuming you're using virtualization for the upgrade testing)
<sbeattie> fader_: not... easily. my outbound bandwidth is pretty slow.
<fader_> sbeattie: Okay, I thought that might be the case but it didn't hurt to ask :)
<marjo> ara: any ideas for edubuntu DVD amd64? i don't see a subscriber to it
<fader_> marjo: I will grab that one if nobody else does by the time I finish the kubuntu DVD
<marjo> fader_: thx!
<ara> fader_, nice
<marjo> so, does that mean all is covered?!
<marjo> that would be great, after edubuntu is respun
<marjo> all: can you please go ahead and subscribe so that the subscription summary is updated?
<marjo> thx
<ara> for RC it will be nice to have more people on the platform team testing
<fader_> marjo: FYI, the subscriptions go past the immediate testing run and indicate that you're interested in testing every new spin of an image.  I don't mind testing any of them but it might be a good idea to try to find people who use Edubuntu regularly to help test it, for example
<marjo> ara: i agree; let's work on that
<fader_> I do try to grab images that haven't been tested even if I'm not subscribed
<marjo> fader_ : oic
<ara> fader_, yes, I think that's what most of us do
<fader_> ara: Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that it was just me ;)
<ara> fader_, I know :D
<cr3> aren't people on the platform team busy frantically fixing bugs, or are there so few bugs that they really have spare cycles for testing?
<marjo> fader_ : yes, that's one of the things ara is working on - recruiting regular testers
<marjo> cr3: the idea is to get more coverage by folks who know and use the product well
<ara> cr3, one test case per person per milestone is achievable, I think
<marjo> but in general, the more the better and merrier
<ara> cr3, we are about 80 people in the platform team
<cr3> marjo: I would suspect that the coverage you speak of is already done before pushing a new package to the repository
<marjo> cr3: you're right, but I'm thinking more of "test coverage" as in hitting all the cases called out in the iso tracker
<cr3> ara: will we be assigning specific cases to members of the platform team or will they pick cases according to their expertise?
<cr3> ara: nevermind, "iso tracker" comment by marjo answers my question :)
<ara> cr3, I think that the pick what's untested in the iso tracker is a good strategy
<marjo> currently there are 7 red bugs showing
<marjo> according to davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/439279 is being worked
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439279 in wubi "There seems to be some instability with the installer" [Undecided,New]
<marjo> davmor2: sorry, i had to mention wubi
<marjo> any new status on the other 6?
<ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/431206 is already milestoned by the mobile team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431206 in Ubuntu Karmic "partman-uboot needs to exist for check script for supporting manual partitioning" [Undecided,New]
<marjo> ok, folks, anything else on Beta?
<marjo> imho, it's looking pretty good, no?
<marjo> any other topics for today?
<marjo> ok, if nothing else, i propose we adjourn
<marjo> thx to all and good luck for Beta release!
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
<fader_> Thanks everyone
<pedro_> thanks
<katu> Hi, I have a question about the upcoming jams. I'm a programmer and ubuntu user, but haven't done any particularly ubuntu-specific work - is there anything it would be useful to do to prepare for the jam and increase the odds I can do something useful there?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-01
<WilliamHerry> 1
<dpm> so, welcome all to this translations meeting!
<dpm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<adiroiban> hi
<dpm> who's there? o/
<kelemengabor> hi all
<czajkowski> aloha
<happyaron> hi
<dpm> hiya adiroiban, kelemengabor, cjwatson, happyaron!
<dpm> czajkowski, I meant, not Colin :)
<dpm> so, shall we get started with the first topic?
<adiroiban> sure
<dpm> Adi, it is yours
<dpm> [TOPIC] Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
<adiroiban> well.
<adiroiban> I think you all know the wikipage
<adiroiban> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority
<adiroiban> any comments regarding the categories ?
<adiroiban> shall we have new ones, or remove some of them
<adiroiban> ?
<dpm> adiroiban, are you talking about the categories for prioritisation?
<adiroiban> yes
<dpm> I think we could add UNR, for example
<adiroiban> ok. where ?
<adiroiban> 3 ?
<adiroiban> I was thinking to consider UNR at cat 2 - Ubuntu specific stuff
<dpm> adiroiban, I'd just put it anywhere in the list for now. I think we should talk whether we want to 'mix' templates of different distros (ubuntu, kubuntu, unr) or give Ubuntu priority
<dpm> What do you guys think?
<adiroiban> for UNR . Since we don't have to many packages I think we can put them at cat 2 - Ubunte specific
<kelemengabor> I think it would be better to handle Ubuntu/Kubuntu separately
<adiroiban> I'm an Ubuntu user so I would say to have Ubuntu+UNR in the first place... and the Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Edubuntu
<adiroiban> then
<dpm> I'm also up for having u
<dpm> Ubuntu first, due to a bigger user base
<dpm> so at least the ones we're here seem to agree on that
 * Riddell disagrees
<adiroiban> Any opinion from Kubuntu users?
<adiroiban> :)
<dpm> ;)
<adiroiban> why?
<Riddell> it would probably be best to have a list of prority templates for each variant, Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu etc
<Riddell> adiroiban: why?  "I'm an Ubuntu user" isn't a good rationale for this
<adiroiban> I would not add Ubuntu Server in the equation
<adiroiban> since most of the apps are CLI
<dpm> Riddell, yes, but one of those variants should go on top
<dpm> we've got only one list
<adiroiban> Riddell: :) I agree, I will also go with Ubuntu due to a bigger user base
<Riddell> dpm: well whatever, it would be nice to have a way for people to see "have I done the most important templates in Xubuntu"
<Riddell> adiroiban: "Ubuntu" is confusing terminology here, "Ubuntu Desktop" is more clear for the desktop edition
<dpm> Riddell, yes, we can prioritise per variant, that's not a problem. The question is whether we put all variant's templates one after another or whether we mix them
<dpm> i.e. a) first all Ubuntu Desktop templates (prioritised), then Kubuntu templates (prioritised), or b) Higher priority Ubuntu templates, higher prio Kubuntu, less prio Ubuntu... etc
<Riddell> may as well bring some order to it
<Riddell> although I'd fear people having the attitude of "I use Ubuntu so I'll ignore this batch of Kubuntu ones"
<adiroiban> :)
<dpm> What I can do for a start is to provide a list of all templates per variant (desktop, unr, kubuntu)
<dpm> i.e. those in the default installs, like the one I sent to the list yesterday or the day before
<adiroiban> those list are very noisy
<adiroiban> lists
<dpm> noisy?
<adiroiban> a lot of CLI apps
<dpm> it's a subset of a bigger list we've got in Launchpad
<dpm> we can remove the CLI apps from the list
<adiroiban> for Ubuntu we can go with GNOME templates + Ubuntu Specific + some other one manualy selected
<adiroiban> and maybe we can do the same for Kubuntu
<dpm> yes, I agree, but you still need somewhere you can get an overview of the templates
<adiroiban> we can get the GNOME templates from here: http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ro/gnome-2-28/ui/
<adiroiban> we can use the wiki for updating such a list
<dpm> hmm, yes, but I've got two concerns with that a) you have to look at them and update them manually
<dpm> b) it might list modules which are not installed by default
<dpm> it doesn't contain
<dpm> things like f-spot
<dpm> or tomboy
<dpm> since they're not official gnome modules
<adiroiban> yes. they will be manualy added in the list
<ArneGoetje> FYI: I've talked with Jeroen during the last UDS in Barcelona about this template grouping. The Rosetta team didn't have time yet to implement it and I will poke about it next week during the LP Translations sprint.
<adiroiban> just like the other Ubuntu/Kubuntu specific packates
<happyaron> dpm, http://l10n.gnome.org/modules , but may need some work then
<adiroiban> the list of all modules is also noisy as there are many obsolete modules
 * happyaron I have to say, yup
<dpm> adiroiban, which ones are obsolete? If they are, we should disable them in LP
<dpm> oh I see
<adiroiban> I was talking about the gnome modules
<dpm> you meant the GNOME one
<adiroiban> yep
<dpm> yup :)
<dpm> well, it seems these are the two main points
<dpm> 1) Do we mix templates or do we list them peioritised one variant after another?
<dpm> prioritised
<dpm> 2) Categories
<dpm> of prioritisation
<dpm> and perhaps 3)
<dpm> How do we set priorities? Variants list? Manual wiki?
<adiroiban> for setting priorities: we can start with a bath update (with some help from Rosetta devs) and then have a wiki, subscribe to changes and do manual updates
<adiroiban> also if Rosetta dev are to busy I can dedicate my time to set the priorities for all templates
<dpm> adiroiban, I think it might be best to do a batch set, it's 1600 templates! :)
<dpm> the plan seems good to me though
<adiroiban> well I hope we will only have a maximum of 500 templates to set
<adiroiban> and the other one will not be changed
<adiroiban> also I can create a curl based script for making those changes using the web interface
<dpm> if you can do that, sounds good to me
<adiroiban> it's not hard to do some post request from the command line
<adiroiban> as my accont has the required template update permissions
<dpm> ok
<adiroiban> going back to our major problem
<dpm> so 3) seems sorted. Shall we do a call for feedback on points 1) and 2) on the ML?
<adiroiban> since we don't have to many templates in UNR i think we can mix them with Ubuntu Desktop
<dpm> ok, yes
<adiroiban> since Xubuntu in not in main , those templates are not in Rosetta
<dpm> that's right, we're only looking at the (desktop, kubuntu, unr) variants
<adiroiban> and we have to decide if we should also mix Ubuntu (mostly GNOME) and Kubuntu (moslty KDE) templates
<dpm> or desktop + kubuntu, if we mix unr with desktop
<dpm> I'd go for not mixing them, and if we do, only mix those which are specific to the distro
<ArneGoetje> dpm, adiroiban: my idea in my talks with jtv was to use debtags for classification and add a combobox in Rosetta to choose which template group to display. Then the templates for that group are filtered and displayed by priority.
<adiroiban> my first idea was to mix them, but to have some manualy define exception so that for example nautilus or dolphin could be listed in the top of the list
<adiroiban> like here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority#Templates%20with%20a%20high%20user%20visiblity
<adiroiban> the only problem with manual defined priority list is that we should find someone willing to dedicate the required time to creat the list.
<adiroiban> I can help with the Ubuntu top priority packages
<adiroiban> Riddell: do you think we can find someone from Kubuntu willing to help with this issue?
<Riddell> I can do a crude version easily  enough (and I don't think there's any reliable  way  to do anything better)
<adiroiban> ok
<dpm> Riddell, that would be a good start, though
<adiroiban> so we should have the top 50 temples for Ubuntu and top 50 for Kubuntu
<adiroiban> or 100
<adiroiban> the idea is to have the most important templates / the visible to 95% of users
<adiroiban> Riddell: feel free to add them in the wiki and send them via email
<adiroiban> since we don't have to many participant at this meeting
<adiroiban> we can try to get some feedback via ubuntu-translators ML
<adiroiban> in order to see if we should mix them or not
<dpm> yes, I agree
<happyaron> pro
<dpm> does anyone want to send an e-mail to the ML to ask feedback on that? Otherwise I can do it
<adiroiban> I can do it
<adiroiban> any other comments regarding those categories ?
<dpm> [ACTION] adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
<MootBot> ACTION received:  adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
<adiroiban> should we add or remove some of them ? is the order ok ?
<dpm> IMO they look good (good work Adi), although I would perhaps not put the bootloader at the top
<adiroiban> those are the first text from a live cd
<dpm> the question is whether most of the users install K/Ubuntu or simply use it
<dpm> i.e. someone else installed it
<adiroiban> yep. but I think we should have them translated as a top priority
<adiroiban> since a full review of the system will also include the install process
<adiroiban> also I think that we have many users that just try the livecd
<adiroiban> without installing it
<adiroiban> and the bootloader contains the language switcher and the âTry Ubuntu without any changes on the computerâ
<dpm> ok, that's a good point.
 * happyaron agree with Adi
<dpm> but still, there's d-i and ubiquity which people using Ubuntu in a e.g. library or school will never see
<dpm> anyway, I don't have a problem with them being on top
<dpm> I'm just mentioning it
<dpm> they are just a few packages, so it can be refined afterwards if we want to anyway
<adiroiban> dpm: you are also right... most of the non-technical users will not use d-i
<kelemengabor> dpm: if your admin is unable to install Ubuntu because the installer is not translated, you won't even see the other parts :P
<adiroiban> :p
<dpm> hehehe
<kelemengabor> so I think it's important too
<happyaron> :)
<dpm> so, it's 3 against one, you get it on top, then :P
<adiroiban> :D
<dpm> so, now we come to the point where we have to decide whether we want to continue the meeting for longer than the planned hour :)
<adiroiban> we should postpone  the ubuntu docs part
<adiroiban> and make a common ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators meeting
<adiroiban> i have just added it in the agenda as a reminder
<dpm> ok, sounds good to me
<dpm> thanks Adi
<adiroiban> I know kelemengabor is keen to see help.ubuntu.com translated :)
<kelemengabor> sure!
<dpm> :)
<kelemengabor> sugo.ubuntu.hu is working nicely, help.u.c should have that love too
<adiroiban> is there any meeting at 16 UTC?
<adiroiban> kelemengabor as far as I know we will not have multilanguage support in h.u.c
<dpm> no, it seems there isn't
<dpm> a meeting
<adiroiban> rather we will help loco teams to set up their own help pages
<adiroiban> and help wiki
<adiroiban> and suport forums
<kelemengabor> well, that's another good option
<adiroiban> next topic/feedback: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
<dpm> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Translations project feedback
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Translations project feedback
<adiroiban> do you think we are doing the right thing by grouping all bugs under ubuntu-translations project, or is just a waste of time ?
<dpm> adiroiban, I think it's useful to a) get an overview of translations bugs and b) be able to subscribe to bug mail, BUT...
<dpm> we should do a better job at triaging the bugs
<dpm> some of them are only added to the u-t project and are not followed up
<dpm> so perhaps
<dpm> we should organise translation hug days for triaging
<dpm> or adopting translation bugs :)
<ArneGoetje> dpm: maybe we should clarify what we use the available bug states for
<ArneGoetje> dpm: like currently we only use New, Invalid and Fix Released. :)
<dpm> ArneGoetje, yes, you are right, we should document the process a bit, even for ourselves :)
<kelemengabor> bug days are a good idea
<dpm> the Kubuntu translations day a while back was very useful in fixing or identifying i18n bugs
<dpm> so perhaps we could do the same for Ubuntu
<kelemengabor> I'd participate :)
<dpm> cool
<dpm> going back to what ArneGoetje was saying, also maybe people should be encouraged to assign bugs in the ubuntu-translations project to themselves
<dpm> even if they can't fix them, they could take care of tracking them
<dpm> and pestering the relevant devs :P
<adiroiban> that should be the actual solution
<ArneGoetje> +1. Then we also know about who is working on which bugs
<adiroiban> but I don't know if we could find the required force to drive those changes/action/work
<dpm> well, we have to start somewhere :) And I think it is already a big improvement to the wiki page we had before, so again, good job on starting the project!
<dpm> we should start a page documenting the ubuntu-translations project
<dpm> Maybe with a section under "Policies" in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ page
<dpm> on how to report translation bugs
<dpm> and the workflow
<happyaron> dpm, +1 from me
<adiroiban> ok. so basicaly we are on the right track... but we need to work harde :p
<adiroiban> harder
<dpm> :)
<adiroiban> ok
<adiroiban> I think it's enough for today
<adiroiban> I will try to arrange a common ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators meeting
<adiroiban> and see how if the collaboration between those teams is ok
<dpm> we could perhaps have a short round of Q+A, if you like, or leave it here. What do you guys say?
<adiroiban> or where we can improve
<adiroiban> it looks like we don't need the q+a part
<dpm> ok, sounds good to me
<dpm> so guys, thanks a lot for your participation
<adiroiban> thanks
<dpm> see you around!
 * dpm claps
<dpm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
<adiroiban> #ubuntu-translators more precisly
<forumsmatthew> I'm here, too
<Technoviking> afternoon
<ubuntugeek> hello
<bapoumba> 'evening Technoviking !
<jdong> hello, all :)
<bapoumba> hey forumsmatthew & ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> Hi
<forumsmatthew> greetings
<Amaranth> FC meeting?
<ubuntugeek> Yes
<bapoumba> Amaranth, yep
<ubuntugeek> Shall we get this party started..
<forumsmatthew> ready when you are
<ubuntugeek> I'm ready, so pretty light agenda today.
<ubuntugeek> Let's talk about the forums upgrade.
<forumsmatthew> Have you looked at the strides made by phpBB lately?
<ubuntugeek> Yes!
<ubuntugeek> I think we need to start fresh by removing these forums and putting up a new fresh forum with phpbb
<ubuntugeek> start over, clean slate
<forumsmatthew> it would satisfy the "hey, this isn't open source" crowd
<bapoumba> W00t !
<ubuntugeek> True it would
<jdong> yeah, that definitely sounds nice :)
<forumsmatthew> you guys take all the fun out of trolling. ;)
<ubuntugeek> boo
<jdong> we need to port over the IE6-like error pages though ;-)
<bapoumba> Experts we have become
<forumsmatthew> lol
<ubuntugeek> Anyways, we are a few revisions behind on our forum software patches so I would like to schedule a downtime to put those patches in.
<forumsmatthew> when would be good for you?
<ubuntugeek> we are looking at about 20 minutes of downtime. I'm thinking tomorrow morning around 8am EST.
<Technoviking> I think any time would be fine except during the glocal jam and 9.10 release day
<ubuntugeek> Right
<forumsmatthew> that should work. We could put up an announcement today and leave it up until we're done
<forumsmatthew> minimize the freak outs
<jdong> announcement definitely needed
<ubuntugeek> Yep, agreed. I'll take care of that after the meeting.
<bapoumba> +1
<jdong> we are probably seeing higher traffic due to the beta already
<Technoviking> only 10000:)
<forumsmatthew> yeah, it's not too bad atm
<forumsmatthew> any other thoughts or business?
<ubuntugeek> Traffic is pretty on par with last month
<jono> Technoviking, :)
<Technoviking> There was talk in the mailing of restricting sigs for naughty and new users
<ubuntugeek> Yes.. that will be interesting to implement
<Technoviking> is it possible without templete voodoo?
<ubuntugeek> Yeah, just more complex voodoo in the backend.. but very doable.
<forumsmatthew> I can think of a couple of ways (new user group with auto advance after X posts, like we do with the user title bit)
<forumsmatthew> my way would require less hacking, but wouldn't be as fun
<ubuntugeek> The question is how many posts before we promote the user?
<ubuntugeek> to have the ability to use sig's
<bapoumba> 15 was discussed I think
<Technoviking> I say betwen 10-25, just enough to bore the spammers
<jdong> I'd say something like the order of 15-25 is reasonable
<ubuntugeek> How about 25 and be a member for 7 days
<forumsmatthew> I would say 10 should be enough
<jdong> 10 and a week sounds good to me
<forumsmatthew> we could also limit those new accounts to posting in non-cafe locations
<Technoviking> jdong: +1
<forumsmatthew> jdong: +1
<bapoumba> +1
<ubuntugeek> -1
<forumsmatthew> re: non-cafe. Just to make the "I'm going to troll by creating a duplicate account thing" a bit harder
<ubuntugeek> we need more then 10 people
<jcastro> hi guys
<forumsmatthew> okay
<forumsmatthew> hey, jcastro . welcome
<jcastro> sorry I am late, I thought this was next week for some reason
<bapoumba> 25 ubuntugeek ?
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo all =)
<forumsmatthew> I'm okay with 25. any higher seems excessive
<bapoumba> hey bodhi_zazen
<forumsmatthew> hi, bodhi
<jdong> yeah I think 25 is as high as I'd like to go...
<bodhi_zazen> sorry I am late
<jdong> I've been at forums before that used 25 posts for posting IMG links
<Technoviking> same here
<jdong> and users tended to find that excessive
<Technoviking> jcastro: we are just finishing one thing and then we can chat with you
<Technoviking> so 25 and one week
<jdong> Technoviking: +1
<bapoumba> okay
<forumsmatthew> yeah, I'm okay with 25 posts / 7days. +1
<Technoviking> If we get many complaint about the limit we can revitist
<Technoviking> revisit
<Technoviking> :)
<ubuntugeek> 10 posts is easy for a spammer
<forumsmatthew> good point
<jdong> I still have a feeling that 7 days is hard for them :)
<jdong> but either way, we can fine-tune the parameters later on
<jdong> having the framework there is most important
<ubuntugeek> yep
<ubuntugeek> +1
<forumsmatthew> any thoughts about the "limited to non-cafe posts" idea? good/bad/not worth implementing?
<bodhi_zazen> I would -1 that
<bapoumba> well was that not 25 posts in support area ?
<ubuntugeek> I that would incite a riot :)
<jdong> hmm I'm initially -1
<bodhi_zazen> either we have a cafe or we do not
<jdong> 25 support posts is quite a lot
<ubuntugeek> Since cafe posts don't count anways
<jdong> we don't want to be suggesting that new users should try hard to post 25 things in the support areas
<forumsmatthew> that's reasonable
<Technoviking> forumsmatthew: I like it, I think we need a user group for people who get naughty in the cafe, but still allow access to the tech areas
<bodhi_zazen> I think moderation should be with a "light touch" as topics in the cafe are controversial and we do not want to appear biased
<forumsmatthew> topics in the cafe shouldn't be controversial
<bapoumba> can we prevent one member to post in one specific thread ?
<forumsmatthew> that was what the now-failed backyard was for
<ubuntugeek> bap: permissions are on a category level
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<bapoumba> ubuntugeek, ok
<ubuntugeek> Shall we discuss items with jcastro now
<forumsmatthew> I'm convinced we don't need this. However, since it had been brought up in the staff forum and we had not had an opportunity to discuss it, I thought we should
<forumsmatthew> yep
<jcastro> hi everyone! Thanks for having me.
<ubuntugeek>  /wave
<jdong> our pleasure
<forumsmatthew> hi
<bapoumba> hello jcastro
<jcastro> So what I would like to do is collect a set of concerns/ideas/whatever from you for things the community team can help you with
<Technoviking> hey Jorge
<jcastro> so basically, what can the community team do in the 10.04 cycle for you
 * jcastro waves back
<bapoumba> jcastro, do you have specific ideas ?
<jdong> well I guess admittedly I'm not very familiar with what the Community Team does
<ubuntugeek> Jdong: me either
<jcastro> well, so for example lately I've been monitoring the karmic forums
<jcastro> and helping getting calls for testing out.
<jcastro> jdong: ok so basically, there's me to do upstream relations, daniel does internal developer stuff, and david does translations
<jdong> jcastro: upstream, as in upstream with respect to Ubuntu?
<jcastro> so is there any areas in the forums where you feel we could improve interaction with other parts of the project for example?
<jcastro> jdong: yes, so like, Debian, GNOME, etc.
<bapoumba> we have a devlink forum that is not much used by devs
<jdong> gotcha
<jcastro> bapoumba: yeah, I was just thinking that
<bapoumba> :)
<jdong> improving communications between us and the developers is definitely a big TODO area
<jcastro> bapoumba: but lately I think 23meg and I have just been posting the calls for help directly in the karmic forum
<Amaranth> jdong: I try :)
<jcastro> which I think works better anyway
<jdong> I still get the feelings that a good chunk of the developer community are generally disinterested in looking at the forums :)
<jdong> (or use it as a running gag)
<bapoumba> jcastro, yes
<jdong> Amaranth: I do too ;-)
<Technoviking> jdong been better in release cycle
<ScottK> +1 on being disinterested in looking at forums.
<bapoumba> jcastro, is there still a need for the devlink forum ?
<jcastro> yeah but do you really need/want all the developers reading the forums? What would that accomplish?
<jcastro> I think getting feedback from forum users to developers is more than enough
<jcastro> bapoumba: I am not sure. Maybe?
<jdong> jcastro: well we're primarily interested in getting information (useful) from the forums to the developers, and vice-versa
<bapoumba> jcastro, I'm just asking
<bapoumba> jcastro, many threads get created there and get moved to other forums
<jdong> I don't blame the devs; the forums tend to have a poor signal to noise ratio
<jdong> that is only naturally when you have a large freely-posting community
<jdong> natural*
<jcastro> bapoumba: well, for me personally I think posting directly to the dev forum at the time gets more eyes on like calls for help and stuff
<bapoumba> jcastro, okay :)
<Amaranth> Wasn't there a forum team that was supposed to pass along interesting ideas and problems people were having to developers?
<Amaranth> And/or encourage and help with writing bug reports
<jcastro> IMO that's happening
<jcastro> I've seen people start a topic, discuss, and then go file a bug and link it back
<bapoumba> Amaranth, I think branstorm took over the flux of ideas
<bodhi_zazen> I find filing bug reports frustrating =)
<bapoumba> *brainstorms
<jcastro> yeah but you can't get certain vibes from brainstorm
<jcastro> for example the 348573945 page thread on the software store wouldn't have happened on brainstorm
<Technoviking> bodhi_zazen: ubuntu_bug <package name> FTW!!!
<bodhi_zazen> It may be my fault, but it does not seem the communication on bug reports is very good
<forumsmatthew> it depends on the bug, the maintainer, and the quality of info left
<ScottK> jcastro: Getting forum complaints turned into bugs is a very good thing.
<bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, like on forums, depends on who handles the thread
<jdong> well the bugtracker is not the place for free conversation
<jdong> which is a good thing (tm)
<jcastro> ScottK: I think that's happening decently. 23meg seems to be pretty good at whipping long threads into proper reports
<ScottK> That's good to hear.
<bapoumba> ScottK, jcastro many forums people do that (report bugs and link back)
<jcastro> bapoumba: I think that's good
<jcastro> ok, so that's actionable, I can put "encourage people to use the forums to discuss bug reports"
<ScottK> That's a much more effecient way to communicate problems to developers than getting developers to look at bugs.
<jcastro> so perhaps we can keep the discussion in the forums, and then people can selectively put the good stuff in the report
<jcastro> as opposed to having a bug report with lolcats on it.
<bapoumba> we keep the lolcats ^^
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<Technoviking> jcastro: +1, will pull back and forth debate from LP, and keeo bug report cleaner for the dev
<Amaranth> jcastro: But bug reports with 400 comments are so easy to read!
<jcastro> ok, what else?
<Technoviking> Amaranth: and War and Peace is light reading:)
 * Amaranth found an awesome patch for Xorg lost in such a bug report today, is a bit bitter
<jcastro> I think self-policing has gotten a ton better
<jcastro> I see people asking if someone has filed a  bug and linking to it
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: Will we need server resources during the next cycle, before the release o Ubuntu 10.04 LTS?
<jcastro> and also people asking to confirm someone's NEW bug, which I think is good
<Technoviking> jcastro: What can the forums do during the Gobal Jam,(should have thought of this sooner, sorry)
<Technoviking> s/gobal/global
<ubuntugeek> technoviking: I think we'll be ok, since we resolved the slave crashing things have been pretty smooth. We
<jcastro> Technoviking: I don't know, I should have thought of it sooner too
<jcastro> Technoviking: I guess the local teams can use it to link up with people close to them
<jcastro> I think global jam is more irc-ish and more real-life interaction
<Technoviking> We could create a prefix for the karmic forum (UGJ) for people post, ask for bug confirmation,etc...
<jcastro> that could work
<forumsmatthew> I'm really sorry, all. I have to go.
<jcastro> I'll take an item to do more forum interaction for the global jam
<Technoviking> I will atleast create a stick/announement for it tonight
<forumsmatthew> thanks to jcastro and everyone for being here!
<jcastro> thanks forumsmatthew@
<ubuntugeek> Yep thanks all
<bapoumba> bye forumsmatthew
<jcastro> anything else?
<bodhi_zazen> bye forumsmatthew
<Technoviking> I can't think of anything
<jcastro> ok, so in that case, just feel free to ping me throughout the cycle if you need anything
<jcastro> my email is jorge at ubuntu.com
<ubuntugeek> Sounds good jorge
<jdong> we'll definitely be in contact as ideas come up
<jcastro> brutal.
<Technoviking> thanks
<jdong> look forward to working with your team
<jcastro> omgpinkponies
<ubuntugeek> :P
<maco> jcastro: no you cannot have a pony
<jcastro> <-- not yours
<Technoviking> Ubuntu Pink Ponies for 13.x would be awesome
<maco> is this the FC?
<ubuntugeek> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss?
<Technoviking> nope
<bodhi_zazen> no
<Technoviking> hiya maco
<ubuntugeek> Great, thanks for coming everyone.
<bapoumba> not from me
<jdong> all set here
<Technoviking> later all
<ubuntugeek> Until next month then. See you all later
<bapoumba> bye !
<jdong> bye!
<Joeb454> hello and bye to everyone then :)
<Joeb454> I forgot :(
<ubuntugeek> Its ok Joe
<bapoumba> hey Joeb454 :)
<Joeb454> thanks ubuntugeek :)
<Joeb454> and hey bapoumba
<Joeb454> I've read up anyway, so I have a vague idea of what was discussed
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-02
 * marjo waves
<ttx> o/
 * apw zones in
 * kees waves
<apw> anyone got a copy of the agenda, mine seems to be missing
 * robbiew does the robot
<lool> (I dont have much network and wont stay long anyway)
 * slangasek waves
 * asac__ waves
 * apw asks slangasek for a copy of the agenda
<ScottK> \o
<slangasek> sorry, beta work precluded me being able to prepare an agenda in advance
<ogra> yo
<apw> oh
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
<slangasek> oh hey
<njpatel> hey
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-10-02
<slangasek> robbiew: thank you :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * cr3 to ensure that the QA team collects and processes feedback about the filebug redirect change
<slangasek>   * cr3, marjo to follow through on netbooks missing from the hw certification lab
<slangasek>   * davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
<slangasek>   * pitti to ensure that we have test plans/release notes for all specs
<slangasek>   * lool to ask humanity upstream to prepare a colour revert for bug #430277 ('''Update Below''')
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430277 in unr-meta "random icons are colorful while some other notification-area icons are dark" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430277
<slangasek>    * Design team requested that we try to include the work from latest Humanity upstream tree which consists of:
<slangasek>     * updated notification area icons, darker, so that they display nicely on the desktop
<slangasek>     * new Humanity-Dark theme which is Humanity with lighter black and white notification area icons to display nicely under UNR
<slangasek>    If we want this (release team and desktop team should decide too), Loic plans to put the new theme in the same binary package and update the UNR gconf settings in desktop-switcher and unr-default-settings.  This is still tracked in LP #430277.  The Humanity-Dark theme should "Inherit:" the Humanity theme so the new icons should make a minor difference in binary package size / CD size.
<slangasek>   * slangasek to get linux-ec2 into main for beta ('''Done''')
<slangasek>   * zul to get new ec2-init sorted today
<slangasek>   * smoser to test vmbuilder patch to use germinate ('''Done''')
<slangasek>   * slangasek to follow up with the kernel team wrt ARM, EC2 kernel
<slangasek> refreshes for beta (done, uploaded over the weekend)
<slangasek> marjo: cr3 mentioned to me yesterday that there was only one netbook still missing from the cert lab?
<marjo> Several changes have been made to the wiki page which users are
<davmor2> slangasek: I worked with ttx and will again on monday to update
<marjo> redirected to in an effort to address issues raised.  The QA team is
<marjo> also actively monitoring the internet for feedback and issues regarding
<marjo> the redirect.  We have also been monitoring newly reported bugs to see
<marjo> the effect redirection has had.
<cr3> slangasek: the netbook has arrived yesterday afternoon and it's been successfully tested
<marjo> slangasek: i was going to cover that later
<marjo> but, what cr3 said.
<slangasek> cr3: that's the one mathiaz had to hand though, right?  So we've had a test of the hardware, but that unit's not staying in the cert lab?
<slangasek> pitti not here to comment on test plans
<asac__> slangasek: pitti said he followed up by mail on his spec/work-item action ... so thats done.
<cr3> slangasek: that was the original plan, but the permanent netbook arrived when mathiaz was actually in the office handing over his own netbook :)
<slangasek> asac__: ok, thanks
<slangasek> cr3: ah, heh
<slangasek> zul: ec2-init is "sorted", I guess?  I don't remember the details of that - was that about main inclusion?
<ttx> slangasek: yes
<ttx> that was about sponsoring changes
<slangasek> lool: if you don't have much time, should we take up the Humanity discussion later?
<slangasek> ttx: ok, good
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<marjo> Karmic Beta Test Report
<marjo> 2009-10-02
<marjo> == Test Coverage ==
<marjo> Image Test Coverage = 100%
<marjo> Test Case Test Coverage = 99%
<marjo> Alpha 6 Test Coverage = 58%
<marjo> === Untested test cases ===
<marjo> Kubuntu DVD i386 - Ubiquity OEM
<marjo> Kubuntu Netbook i386 - Wubi
<marjo> === Test Failure Analysis ===
<marjo> 15 Test Failures
<marjo> Failure Rate = 15/194 = 8%
<marjo> Alpha 6 Test Failure Rate = 15%
<marjo> Testers ran out of time on two untested, otherwise we would have hit 100%!
<marjo> == Bugs summary ==
<marjo> === Summary of Unfixed Issues ===
<marjo> 38 bugs unfixed
<marjo> Critical - 0
<marjo> High - 11
<marjo> Medium - 8
<marjo> Low - 4
<marjo> Undecided - 15
<marjo> === Summary of Fixed Issues ===
<marjo> 11 bugs fixed
<marjo> Critical - 1
<marjo> High - 7
<marjo> Low - 1
<marjo> Undecided - 2
<marjo> BTW, a detailed test report will be available by email
<marjo> any questions, so far?
<slangasek> will we still be able to get coverage of those 2 remaining test cases?  even though beta is out, it would be good to get the feedback in advance of final
<marjo> slangasek: yes, will work w/ davmor2 & jdridell
<slangasek> ok, great
<davmor2> I can kill em
<davmor2> wubi will most likely fail
<marjo> anything else, otherwise the emailed test report will be very detailed
 * slangasek notes that the "failure rate" is a bit misleading, since for most of those tests we also had (sometimes multiple) successful test results
<slangasek> marjo: I think that's good, thanks
<ScottK> Particularly in the case of the Kubuntu Netbook Wubi test, since that's never worked.
<marjo> scottk: point taken
<ogra> ScottK, juet because you didnt try it on armel yet :P
<slangasek> ScottK: should wubi be removed from the KNE image for final?
<ogra> *just
<ScottK> slangasek: I suspect it will work now.
<ScottK> It just needs to be tested.
<slangasek> oh
<cjwatson> well, as well as the rest of wubi anyway
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> Exactly.
<ScottK> AFAIK this is the first milestone where we got wubi to work at all.
<ScottK> There were some Alpha 3 KNE specific issues, that I think got resolved and it'd be nice to know for sure.
<slangasek> given the difficulties in getting wubi working this cycle, I think we need to not wait until the RC to re-test it
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> Unfortunately, I can't test it, so someone else will need to volunteer.
<slangasek> marjo, cjwatson, davmor2: would it be possible for you guys to coordinate some ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC?
<davmor2> I was going to
<marjo> slangasek: yes, will work with them and ara, too
<slangasek> [ACTION] marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
<cjwatson> yep
<cjwatson> some possible fixes were in the post-beta queue that just got flushed
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> shall we move on to hw testing?
<marjo> slangasek: i didn't see that on the agenda
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> let me look quickly
<slangasek> marjo: true... it ought to be a standing item, but in any case the status looks pretty good
<marjo>  Laptops:
<marjo>         passed:   26 (84%)      failed:    1 ( 3%)      untested:  4 (13%)
<marjo>         Servers:
<marjo>         passed:   42 (88%)      failed:    0 ( 0%)      untested:  6 (12%)
<marjo>         Desktops:
<marjo>         passed:   10 (100%)     failed:    0 (  0%)     untested:  0 (  0%)
<lool> slangasek: Sorry dropped off the net
<marjo> there's the summary
<marjo> yes, it's looking good
<slangasek> that failure also predates beta (2009-09-17)
<fader_> slangasek: My bad -- I retested with the beta but forgot to update the date
<marjo> all have bugs and/or RT tickets associated with them
<fader_> I'll fix that now
<slangasek> fader_: still a failure?
<fader_> It's the same bug though
<fader_> Yep
<marjo> fader is tracking all
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: thanks for staying on top of this
<marjo> slangasek: welcome
<slangasek> marjo: any other concerns from you guys regarding QA for release?
<marjo> need to keep on top of outstanding unfixed bugs
<marjo> as detailed in the Beta Test Report
<mdz> marjo: how are we doing on regressions?
<marjo> mdz: last time brian and I ran report,
<marjo> it looks like there were over 115 regression potentials vs. same time last release
<mdz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html
<slangasek> marjo: 115 /more/ compared to last time?
<mdz> we seem to have quite a few bugs marked as regressions but not triaged
<cjwatson> there are 117 now, can't believe we only had 2 this time last release :)
<marjo> slangasek: no, 50+ vs. 115+, therefore more than doubled
<slangasek> ok
<marjo> need to do more analysis; not obvious why
<slangasek> yes, some more triaging of that list is needed; I'll do some today / next week, is there someone on QA who can help with this?
<apw> perhaps we have more testers
<slangasek> I wonder if it isn't partly more widespread adoption of the tags
<marjo> slangasek: yes, bdmurray can help out
<slangasek> (I know /I/ tagged more regressions this cycle than last
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
<marjo> i think it's a combination of more testing & more diligent bug reporting, but don't want to jump to conclusions
<marjo> thanks for the action item
<davmor2> slangasek: I can run trough them in my smoke testing and see if they are still valid for you too.
<slangasek> davmor2: the regressions?  I think those are going to be spread out, so would be best handled by dedicated testing
<davmor2> np's
<slangasek> anything else on QA?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> marjo, cr3, fader_: thanks
<asac__> so pitti is not here, but he prepared a report
<asac__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<asac__> on the RC bug front it look ok from what i see
<asac__> for triaged ones the modem-manager PUK one is currently in progress upstream
<asac__> empathy bug is making progress according to kenvandine
<asac__> for the needs understanding bugs kenvandine also said he had some ideas on the empathy crash
<asac__> i will remove the firefox XID one from release team radar
<asac__> the critical battery action not triggered bug is assigned to pitti, so i think it will make progress soon
<asac__> on the networking one i have something about ath9k that scares me a bit.
<asac__> bug 439723
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439723 in linux "ath9k - nm-applet don't connect to any network after 2 hours (+-)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439723
<ScottK> For 438445, we've decided to go back to the upstream approach.  The current patch (even if it was working consitently OK) is socially very problematic with upstream (we asked, they said don't do it that way, and then we did anyway).
<cjwatson> do you think bug 428920 might be a desktop issue? it looks like an X failure to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428920 in Ubuntu Karmic "Karmic boot hangs before login" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428920
<asac__> seems like we are having regressions for old ath9k chips ... but i am currently trying to understand how common those are
<asac__> cjwatson: hmmm ... not sure. i will check with tseliot
<cjwatson> thanks
<Riddell> Kubuntu?
<cjwatson> it wasn't clear from the log, there's just "Backtrace:" at the end but no actual backtrace :)
<asac__> Riddell: yes. please comment on the kubuntu status
<cjwatson> but that made me suspicious
<Riddell> Kubuntu Beta was in reasonable beta quality shape
<Riddell> the issues on my radar for final are..
<Riddell>  * Some kcontrol modules missing translations
<Riddell>  * KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
<Riddell>  * KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
<Riddell>  * "tech-preview" warning to be added to kubuntu netbook ubiquity
<Riddell>  * microblog applet broken
<Riddell> I need to find the bugs for those and make sure  they're milestoned
<Riddell> but I'm optimistic it's all do-able for final
<slangasek> [ACTION] Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
<slangasek> :)
<Riddell> oh and  upgrade from hardy
<Riddell> mvo  needs  to do something to make that possible
<Riddell> which he says  should  be fine
 * Riddell done
<slangasek> probably not critical for karmic, as long as the upgrade path is sorted in time for Lucid?
<ScottK> slangasek: It is critical for karmic
<slangasek> (otherwise, folks can go hardy->jaunty->karmic)
<slangasek> oh?
<slangasek> ok then
<Riddell> well Kubuntu Hardy is just about to lose support
<ScottK> Hardy Kubuntu is EOL
<slangasek> I thought there was a working upgrade path already via jaunty
<Riddell> there is that but well, karmic is infinately better than jaunty, it connects  to networks for one thing
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
<slangasek> Riddell: mm, right
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else on the desktop?
<davidbarth> DX?
<asac__> go ahead
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Tem
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Tem
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<davidbarth> The summary is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> in particular for the detail of the updated packages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicWeeklyReleases (thanks kenvandine)
<davidbarth> of note this week
<davidbarth> notify-osd 0.9.23 bug fix release; warning: that release triggers a temporary regression with a gpm patch that is still queued for karmic
<davidbarth> # bug fix releases of libindicate, indicator-messages and indicator-session (crasher - #436181 in particular)
<davidbarth> # dbusmenu: nasty ordering bug (#430904) in the works, planned for next week
<davidbarth> reverted indicator-session to not show the user list sub-menu because of a regression in gdm (#438720)
<davidbarth> new xsplash fixing a release blocker (#439059)  (thanks robbiew and all those who helped narrow down the issue)
 * ogra noticed also a commit that fixes the horribly distroted graphics on 16bpp for xsplash :)
<davidbarth> we have a couple of milestoned bugs that we're on; still some crashers
<davidbarth> and yes, a fix for the 16bpp bug ;)
<davidbarth> questions?
<slangasek> none here
<asac__> davidbarth: do you need help on the gpm patch that is still queued? does that need some work or sponsoring?
<slangasek> anyone else?
<davidbarth> asac__: yes, if you can speed that up, that will limit the temp. regression; that's really minor though
<asac__> ok. lets talk after meeting in -desktop
<davidbarth> asac__: ok
<slangasek> [ACTION] asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> asac__, davidbarth: thanks
<ogra> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra> -
<ogra>  * UNR: icons were discussed with upstream, upstream wants some additional changes to the themes (more details in the report above and in LoÃ¯cs mail exchange with release and desktop team)
<ogra>  * moblin: still unstable, work going on, more merges
<ogra>  * armel:
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogra>    - various new kernel bugs showed up on imx51 during beta testing
<ogra>    - dove images went through beta fine
<ogra>    - openoffice breakage seems to be actually toolchain breakage, being fixed by doko atm
<slangasek> icons> I understand that lool is under some significant pressure to accept a new upstream drop of the humanity package
<ogra> right, thats how i understood his mail
<slangasek> just as a reminder, the artwork freeze is in effect - we should not be taking batch drops of new themes that aren't related to specific bugfixes at this point in the cycle
<doko_> ogra: I still doubt it ... but the upcoming upload works around it
<ogra> yeah, i should have written "being worked on" :) instead of "fixed"
<Amaranth> The new icons are also needed to have a good experience with the Dust theme (which is currently broken because it tries to use Human)
<slangasek> even the suggestion of bundling the new dark theme in the existing binary package is problematic, given that the existing theme is a 1.6MB package
<ogra> yeah, its graphics ...
<ogra> usually not small
<slangasek> Amaranth: I understand, but we need to find a solution that's consistent with where we are in the release cycle and doesn't introduce significant risk of regressing for release
<Amaranth> (new icons are 30K when compressed with bzip2)
<ogra> it replaces all notification area icons as i understand it
<slangasek> I'll follow up with lool about this on Monday, but I just wanted to make sure the release manager's position on this was clear that this needs to go through the proper freeze procedures, since lool seems to be quite uncomfortable with what's being proposed
<Amaranth> Right, it replaces the current monochrome notification area icons with lighter versions
<ogra> slangasek, he also asked to possibly note opinions on the bug
<slangasek> ogra: as for armel - a number of kernel bugs that had been milestoned to beta for armel got deferred to final; I wasn't overly bothered at doing this given our current target audience for armel, but is there anything blocking us on getting these fixed with time to spare for final?
<slangasek> kernel freeze is coming soon
<doko_> slangasek: I may be able to free 1.7MB (gzip compressed) on the CDs
<ogra> well, some have patches that arent getting ,merged and a package upload for imx51 is pending i was told ... as well that amit is on holiday next week
<slangasek> doko_: thanks - as usual, will take everything we can get :)
<ogra> slangasek, i agree, its very close and i'd really like to see more progress especially for imx51 ...
<slangasek> Amaranth: uncompressed size also matters in the case of liveCDs, btw - but it's good to know these shouldn't have a serious impact on ISO size; if you could add that information to the bug, that would be helpful
<slangasek> ogra: "aren't getting merged" - why not?
<Amaranth> Will do
<ogra> pleanty of these bugs are open since quite some time
<slangasek> disagreements about correctness?  lack of time?
<ogra> the latter is my suspicion
<ogra> the fix  for missing sound support is there since two weeks or so
<slangasek> that's bug #420447?
<apw> ogra, if you can summarise what is pending that would help, we have a heap of bugs over hear
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420447 in linux-fsl-imx51 "no sound devices on babbage board with linux-image-2.6.31-100-imx51" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420447
<ogra> apw, thats what my report does :)
<ogra> right, this one definately has a patch ... not sexy but will at least give us sound support
<ogra> my prob is that i couldnt test a single audio app for the whole release yet
<ogra> which very likely will produce subsequent bugs once i can
<apw> sounds like kernel and ogra need to interlock more directly, as 'in my report' isn't getting them onto my radar
<slangasek> ogra: could I ask you to send apw a summary by email of the items you believe currently have merges outstanding for kernel?
<apw> yeah that would help me a lot
<ogra> yes
<ogra> apw, i'll contact you on monday
<apw> ogra, probabally to the kernel-team list would be good, cc: me too so i don't miss it
<apw> sounds good
<slangasek> [ACTION] ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
<ogra> apw, also, is there someone taking amits role wrt imx51 during his holiday ?
<ogra> given the freeze is so near and we have so many opens ?
<apw> ogra, i am not sure who, but someone must be looking over it
<apw> after it ... get the info to the list and i'll bounce on people to find out who is going to look after it
<ogra> i dont mean outstanding merges but the open bugs
<slangasek> apw: separately, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.searchtext=linux-fsl-imx51&milestone=12698 should be on the radar of someone on the kernel team for final
<apw> ogra, how big is the audience for this platform?  imx51 ?
<ogra> apw, no idea, how does that matter ?
<ogra> its an arch we commited to
<ogra> and i expect that it is supported as well as the others
<apw> for prioritising reasons, we arn't likely to close every bug, so we need to know where to put our effort
<ogra> out of 19 bugs being tagged armel atm 10 are imx51 kernel bugs
<ogra> indeed, i dont expect all bugs to get closed
<ogra> as i dont expect all bugs being closed on my i386 laptop
<apw> so knowng how big a slice of our affected userbase they are helps us prioritise them in with our others
<slangasek> apw: I think at this point you should have all the information needed to track the outstanding issues, correct?  So informed decisions about delivery/deferral can be made offline?
<ogra> right, no need to exted the meeting with this
<apw> indeed so
<ogra> *extend
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<apw> ..
<apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised at the URL below, including the bugs called out in the agenda.  We seem to be seeing the start of the flow of bugs resulting from wider beta testing:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<apw> We have started receiving and integrating 2.6.31.x stable updates, some 90 patches in the first batch with another 120 or so in .2 due around now.  Futher work has been committed to work round some recurring brightness issues.  As have a number of i915 updates for new hardware.
<apw> All of the items which impact the distro release schedule remain basically complete, the arm branches are now up to date and basically working, bugs being worked as normal, integration is deemed complete there.  We continue to focus on regression-potential bugs, including focusing this weeks bug day on new bugs.
<apw> (modulo the discussion here on imx51 status)
<apw> ..
<davmor2> slangasek: 1 test left
<slangasek> 395358> fwiw, that summary is wrong, the hotkey should not be handled by the kernel as a "hw kill" at all...
<apw> slangasek, though the key is connected to the HW at the acpi level and is making your bluetooth appear and dissappear at the hardware level, right?
<slangasek> apw: "another 120 or so" - how well do these things seem to be converging?
<slangasek> apw: no, it's connected to the HW *by the kernel*
<slangasek> apw: this hotkey never does *anything* in ACPI; this is entirely a kernel regression that it's now toggling everything
<slangasek> sorry if that wasn't clear
<apw> i thought it was toggling everything by toggling the sw rfkill and in parallel the hw rfkill was toggling in the right sequence at least as evidenced for bluetooth
<apw> leading to bad overall semantics
<slangasek> that's entirely new behavior in karmic
<apw> right as sw kill didn't exist at all
<apw> before karmic ...
<slangasek> I believe the kernel is force-detaching the device; it's not done by ACPI
<slangasek> anyway, we can discuss that offline
<apw> ack
<slangasek> now, as for merging the stable patches
<slangasek> 120 patches - how soon are these going to land in karmic?
<slangasek> kernel freeze is 2 weeks away
<slangasek> and we'll want to leave room for fixing regressions that turn up...
<apw> i am expecting them by weds next week, as they have appeared in the commit emails for stable
<apw> they could be sooner.  it is l ikley that is the last of the stable updates we can get in before freeze
<slangasek> ok; if they slip past next Wednesday, I think we'll want to discuss whether it makes sense to upload them before release, or defer .2 as an SRU
<apw> slangasek, ACK
<slangasek> anyone have anything else to discuss on kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> hey
<ttx> updated status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> We are also looking at the packages /other/ than Eucalyptus
<ttx> to see if there wouldn't be good candidates that we missed sight of
<slangasek> that's good :)
<ttx> we also expect more people to test server now that it's beta
<ttx> even if traditionally server doesn't get tested that much before release
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> we should push some public calls to encourage people to do testing server now
<slangasek> is there a particular forum where you think that will be effective, other than the places where beta has already been announced?
<slangasek> or do you think an explicit call for server testing to the same channels is what's needed?
<ttx> I think we (team) need to blog about it, so that it shows on server aggregators
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> On the release management front...
<ttx> beta still showed some weakness on the UEC/EC2 release automation
<ttx> that smoser will work to cover.
<ttx> we might need to do some dry runs
<ttx> with the release team cooperation
<slangasek> yes, I would like to work with smoser to get publishing integrated as much as possible with the existing cdimage script suite
<ttx> now that we ahve a reasonably working UEC stack we'll also call for testers on that side
<ttx> "test it, its easier than it sounds"
<ttx> the hardware requirement is the major blocker to that.
<slangasek> that should help us avoid any fat-fingering at publishing time, as well as getting us prettiness like file descriptions in the index
<ttx> yes. Beta should have been the opportunity to do that, but we were late
<smoser> slangasek, ttx we've got lots of work to do there. the uec stuff shouldn't be hard, but the ec2 just needs some work.
<smoser> it was ec2 that i fat fingered
<ttx> that's why I suggest some dry runs now.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
<ttx> That's about it on our side... questions, comments, additions ?
<slangasek> not from me
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-ec2-release-process needs to be retargeted
<ttx> but I don't have the power to do so
<ttx> it should be considered completed when automation is ready.
<ttx> that's all from me.
<slangasek> retargeted
<ttx> I knew you could do that :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks :)
<jdstrand> o/
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi
 * ttx disappears
<jdstrand> so this week, now that we have a release meeting under our belt, we created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> jdstrand: copycat
<jdstrand> ttx: :P
 * ScottK notes he really enjoyed downloading an OOo security update on the same day the beta was released.
<jdstrand> we are in bug fixing mode and have 4 bugs
<jdstrand> ScottK: that was a nive touch eh? I had to be careful about not ying up the buildds too
<jdstrand> bug #434084
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434084 in refpolicy-ubuntu "SE Linux not enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434084
<jdstrand> nothing new to report (no feedback from community maintainers yet, but will continue to follow-up)
<jdstrand> bug #437854
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437854 in libvirt "apparmor profile denies access to alsa" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437854
<jdstrand> apparmor profile denies access to alsa (have patch, will be in next upload)
<jdstrand> bug #438165
<jdstrand> apparmor profiles are never deleted (have patch, will be in next upload)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438165 in libvirt "apparmor profiles are never deleted" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438165
<jdstrand> bug #439726
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439726 in apparmor "/etc/apparmor/initramfs assumes availability of /usr too early" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439726
<jdstrand> kees is working on it
 * slangasek nods
<jdstrand> on our radar, but a kernel bug is bug #427948
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427948 in apparmor "network operations not getting reported on karmic" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427948
<jdstrand> I'm told the kernel team should have a fix before freeze
<jdstrand> other than what is in the wiki, I don't have anything else to report
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> anyone else have any questions for security?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks!
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<jdstrand> slangasek: sure thing!
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic mostly up to date (we so need to move over to a format more like the desktop team's, but for lucid ...)
<cjwatson> significant bug reduction from last meeting; I think we're down to a fairly manageable range again, and boot is definitely settling
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> still some problems with fsck timestamp problems, which boil down to a combination of (a) interaction between NTP and filesystem timestamps not being updated on umount (b) hardware clock mis-setting in d-i (hopefully not ubiquity though), and a few remaining boot corner cases
<cjwatson> various boot/shutdown tidiness issues, which we'll attack incrementally but we need to consider them strictly less important than actual failures to boot; real polish here will be for lucid; Scott and I are working on some usplash improvements between us, too
<cjwatson> Wubi worked in some cases for beta, but the system seems quite unstable. We discovered that the syncio option went missing from ntfs-3g in a merge a while back, so we'll see if it gets more stable once we have a build with that restored
<cjwatson> (end, sorry this is kind of brief)
<slangasek> when we're 10 minutes over, brevity is nothing to apologize for ;)
<slangasek> any questions for Foundations?
<cjwatson> I understand we're under some pressure to make the boot tidy, which is why I included an explicit statement there that boot failures do need to take precedence
<cjwatson> but we'll do what we can
<slangasek> seems we're down to 3 known boot failure bugs currently
<slangasek> so if anyone is seeing boot failures that don't fit those descriptions... please make sure they get filed/escalated
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> o/
 * sistpoty|work waves
<ScottK> FTBFS is still my major concern
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: hi as well :)
<sistpoty|work> *nod*
<ScottK> I few people are contributing fixes, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the problem.
<ScottK> FFe processing is going reasonably well.
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: can you post something to u-d-a about FTBFS with your next post?
<ScottK> I think we finished clutter transition duing the beta freeze.
<ScottK> Maven is a mess and needs some focus to get it in sync.
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: I think it warrants a dedicated post, rather than waiting for my next one; maybe you would like to draft something?
<ScottK> There is some end user complaining, but no one has stood up to do it.
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: sure, can do... I'll send you the draft once I have one ;)
<sistpoty|work> (or paste it somewhere)
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: sounds good, thanks
<ScottK> Other than that, things seem to be in reasonably good shape.
<ScottK> I've been remiss in having the discussion with the rest of the team on final freeze timing for universe.
<ScottK> I guess that's more urgen now.
<ScottK> ... urgent ...
<ScottK> That's all I have
 * sistpoty|work doesn't have anything to add
<slangasek> anyone else have questions on MOTU?
<slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: thanks, guys
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<sistpoty|work> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> I have one note here
<slangasek> win 21
 * ScottK guesses that isn't it.
<slangasek> no :)
<slangasek> lamont has said he's going to be pushing new karmic chroot tarballs out over the weekend
<slangasek> so expect some slight delays to builds during that period (but hopefully nothing more disruptive than that )
<slangasek> anything else? <gavel in the air>
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:50.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<highvoltage> *beep*
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> hi stgraber, LaserJock, alkisg
<alkisg> Hi all!
<LaserJock> who's going to chair today?
<alkisg> ^^^ :)
<alkisg> ace_suares won't be here today
 * highvoltage seconds LaserJock for chair
<LaserJock> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is LaserJock.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting
<LaserJock> ^^ our agenda
<LaserJock> let's get a list of attendees before be begin, raise your hand if you're here for the Edubuntu Meeting
<LaserJock> o/
<alkisg> o/
<dinda> o/
<highvoltage> \o.
 * stgraber waves again
<LaserJock> ok, so I see we have all 3 Edubuntu Council members in attendance and have a quorum, very nice
<LaserJock> I think I will insert the EC agenda items first to make sure they get handled
<LaserJock> who all is here applying for Edubuntu Membership today ....
<alkisg> o/ ! :)
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> [TOPIC] alkisg Edubuntu Membership application
<MootBot> New Topic:  alkisg Edubuntu Membership application
<highvoltage> alkisg: do you have a wiki page up with your nomination details?
<alkisg> I've put some short cv info on my ubuntu wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlkisGeorgopoulos
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> alkisg: what wiki pages on UbuntuLTSP are you particularly proud of?
<alkisg> Here's one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
<alkisg> I'm mostly proud because that option, i.e. easily booting LTSP in an environment with an existing, external DHCP server wasn't available before,
<alkisg> so I tried to ask for help from the dnsmasq & gpxe developers, and they implemented this, and now many schools use that method
<alkisg> Another one is a method to boot ltsp from a PC that already has windows installed, and no boot from lan option: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/grubgpxe
<LaserJock> alkisg: how long have you been contributing directly to Edubuntu (user support, helping plan, scripts, wiki, etc.)?
<alkisg> I've first used edubuntu 2 years ago, so I didn't have much time to contribute.
<alkisg> The first 6 months I was mostly learning, unable to contribute. After that I'm mostly in #ltsp and in #edubuntu helping wherever I can.
<alkisg> Like I say in the wiki page, $ grep alkisg .purple/logs/irc/alkisg@irc.freenode.net/#ltsp.chat/* | wc -l
<alkisg>  17960
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber : any questions from you?
<alkisg> ==> that's a lot of chatting :D
<stgraber> nope, I know him quite well mainly on #ltsp, so it's all good for me
<highvoltage> alkisg: if you could change anything in edubuntu, what would be the first thing(s) you'd change?
<alkisg> highvoltage: Difficult question. I think that now that LTSP has moved to the alternate CD (ok it's back now in the DVD, but not the main focus of edubuntu anymore), that I'd try to make it easier for the teacher to setup a lab using edubuntu.
<alkisg> I.e. LDAP/NFS "installers" or some other method (sshfs?) for classroom/account management
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'm quite interested in the greek spin that you're planning on
<highvoltage> alkisg: are there any features you're planning for it that won't be in Edubuntu?
<alkisg> I know what greek schools need, as I'm in constant touch with many many Greek teachers.
<highvoltage> alkisg: and if so, will you assist in getting those features into edubuntu over the long term?
<alkisg> So I'd like to make a remix that would make it very easy for them to install a lab
<alkisg> There are some greek edu apps that I'd put there, which won't be of any interest to the edubuntu community
<alkisg> Other than that, any installers / scripts etc I'm going to make, I'll try to make them as upstream projects, with greek being only a translation
<LaserJock> alkisg: also, when you're done with highvoltage's question, roughly how many schools/kids are using Edubuntu/Ubuntu LTSP in Greece?
<alkisg> LaserJock: it's really difficult to turn people here to using FLOSS. E.g. they use the trial versions of winzip/winrar and if you tell them that 7zip does the same thing without the annoying popups, they ignore you
<alkisg> So it'll take a lot of effort to switch many of them. I'd estimate that about 50 Greek schools now use Ubuntu with or without LTSP
<alkisg> Multiply that with about 100-200 students...
<LaserJock> k, glad to see it getting a toe-hold
<alkisg> But we made some good progress; e.g. I've set  up a repository with about 10 Gb of greek educational software
<LaserJock> [VOTE] Edubuntu Membership for alkisg
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Edubuntu Membership for alkisg.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<alkisg> ...and now with a "sudo apt-get install gymnasio" they can install all of it
<alkisg> So I'm hoping that with the remix, many more will be interested in switching to FLOSS.
<LaserJock> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from LaserJock. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1 for a very good work on documentation, beta test and work on scripts for both LTSP and iTalc
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<highvoltage> I'm saying +1 because he stuck with us through some tough times, he's in touch with real life schools out there, he has some good plans for the future and he's good to have around
<highvoltage> (on top of the other reasons, of course)
<highvoltage> oh
<highvoltage> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<LaserJock> do I need to end a vote? if so, how?
<stgraber> LaserJock: #endvote ? (just a guess)
<LaserJock> #endvote
 * LaserJock thinks that didn't help
<stgraber> hmm, or not ;)
<stgraber> look in your pms
<stgraber> sometimes the bot send you a private message with some instructions
<LaserJock> it just says please vote
<highvoltage> [ENDVOTE]
<LaserJock> [ENDVOTE]
<stgraber> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<LaserJock> heh
<highvoltage> interesting.
<alkisg> Thank you all! I strongly believe you won't be disappointed. :)
<LaserJock> alkisg: now get to work!
<alkisg> (I'll be around for the next 30 years or so to prove it :))
<highvoltage> alkisg: welcome as an officially recognised Ubuntu contributor!
<stgraber> alkisg: enjoy your @ubuntu.com and @edubuntu.org ;)
<alkisg> Heh, nice! :)
<highvoltage> we have to remember to report this to the CC too
<LaserJock> [TOPIC] cleaning out the ~edubuntu-members membership requests
<MootBot> New Topic:  cleaning out the ~edubuntu-members membership requests
<LaserJock> we have a ton of membership requests sitting there
 * stgraber has got to go reboot a server, will be back in a minute
<LaserJock> what should we do about them?
<highvoltage> some people have confused ~edubuntu-members with "the ubuntu team"
<highvoltage> so when someome wanted to join edubuntu as a contributor, they requested a join there
<highvoltage> there's a number of people that haven't ever added their name to an agenda or gave us any kind of ping
<highvoltage> perhaps just reject them and add a link that explains ubuntu membership and the process for applying?
<LaserJock> one of the reasons I wanted to get ownership of the team from the CC is to change the team so that people can't join
<LaserJock> I mean, not apply through LP
<LaserJock> they'd have to be added by the EC
<highvoltage> that makes sense. a member can be added after they have applied successfully
<LaserJock> the plus side is we don't get a bunch of people who have no relation to Edubuntu on there
<LaserJock> the minus side is people we *do* want can't just hit the button to be on the list for the next EC meeting
<LaserJock> they'd have to put themselves on the agenda most likely
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but that never worked anyway
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if someone doesn't add their name on the agenda or doesn't show on the meeting, nothings going to happen anyway
<LaserJock> right
<dinda> how many people are we talking about?
<LaserJock> we have 31 proposed members
<LaserJock> there are only 10 *in* the team :-)
<dinda> it seems like since the overall membership shifted from the CC to various councils, the numbers of folks applying has dwindled - or rather been manageable due to the various teams
<dinda> doesn't seem much different from the other council processes, to add one's name to the meeting agenda
<highvoltage> yep.
 * stgraber is back
<LaserJock> ok, so what if we 1) sent an email out to edubuntu-devel/edubuntu-users that we're going to purge the list and explain the process 2) purge the proposed 3) make the text of ~edubuntu-members clear for people who do want to apply
<stgraber> sounds good (just finished reading the backlog)
<LaserJock> 4) we should have an open team where people who just want to be fans or begin contributing can join
<nubae> hi folks... sorry to come late...
<highvoltage> yep, perhaps just include CC on step 1
<LaserJock> nubae: great to see you!
<nubae> ditto :-)
<dinda> sounds like a good plan
<highvoltage> (sorry if I'm a bit pedantic on that atm, it's just so that we keep them in the loop about membership stuff)
<alkisg> Hey nubae
<LaserJock> ok, so who wants to do what on that list?
<LaserJock> I can do 1 and 3
<nubae> url? sorry if asking for the umpteenth time :-/
<LaserJock> nubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting but we're a bit OT at the moment
<dinda> what does purging entail?  a council person going into LP and rejecting all?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I can do 1 2 or 3. si I'll go with 2 then
<LaserJock> dinda: with a nice message, yeah
<LaserJock> actually 4 we should wait on and do with the LP team cleanup
<LaserJock> agreed?
<dinda> LaserJock: indeed :)  "Bad news - you 've been rejected!  Good news - we have new process!"
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> dinda: it's really pretty much the same process as always
<highvoltage> dinda: we never approved any members purely on an LP application
<highvoltage> dinda: the changes is really just so that people don't accidentally half-way apply
<LaserJock> or at least not letting people shot themselves in the foot
<dinda> it is confusing, when there are several LP groups; like the doc team, each with a different level of contributors and some just wanna be contributors looking for mentoring
<nubae> I'd like to quickly see how what I'm doing at work might fit into something usable also for edubuntu...
<LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to email edubuntu-{devel,users} and CC that we will be purging the proposed ~edubuntu-members LP applications
<highvoltage> dinda: yep, it is a bit.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to email edubuntu-{devel,users} and CC that we will be purging the proposed ~edubuntu-members LP applications
<nubae> so when u have a moment, I'll talk about it a bit...
<LaserJock> [ACTION] highvoltage to do the purging, with a nice message explaining how to correctly apply
<MootBot> ACTION received:  highvoltage to do the purging, with a nice message explaining how to correctly apply
<LaserJock> [ACTION] general Edubuntu contributor/fan open LP team should be created/re-purposed during LP team cleanup
<MootBot> ACTION received:  general Edubuntu contributor/fan open LP team should be created/re-purposed during LP team cleanup
<LaserJock> any other EC business?
<stgraber> ok, I have a broken RAID controler on a production system, I'll just kick off a reinstall and be back in two minutes
<stgraber> sorry for that
<highvoltage> LaserJock: nothing that need attention right now
<LaserJock> OK
<highvoltage> (and my dinner is getting cold :p)
<alkisg> :)
<LaserJock> should we let nubae start while stgraber is away?
<nubae> he can read the backlog
<highvoltage> yep
<LaserJock> [TOPIC] report from nubae
<MootBot> New Topic:  report from nubae
<nubae> ok, well basically at work we are creating what we are calling a resource manager
<nubae> It is basically a method whereby a teacher might create xmpp groups (MUCs generally)
<nubae> and students would see these from a little applet on their systems, and join the corresponding group
<nubae> basically we are using the underlying telepathy framework to communicate with these apps using dbus python bindings
<nubae> tell me if this gets too technical and/or needs explanation
<nubae> The idea is that by a teacher creating these groups, he can attachn xmpp based resources to them
<highvoltage> nope, please continue
<stgraber> I'm back
<nubae> for example, enable chat, enable group based streaming (vino, vinagre)
<nubae> enable italc
<nubae> jclic... etc
<nubae> so its a way for students to get access to any group based applications, and a teacher to manage the membership to these
<nubae> does that make sense so far?
<stgraber> sure, probably doesn't only apply to schools, I can see quite a lot of corporate use for that as well
<LaserJock> so essentially you're running the classroom over telephathy?
<nubae> We want to use a jabber server to do the majority of traffic routing, though there is fallback mechanism to salut
<nubae> LaserJock, yes, I guess u could say that :-)
<highvoltage> I know one corporate who paid millions for a commercial system like that that integrates with AD
<nubae> The future is to attach any telepathy based app to the resource manager and enable/disable memberhsip to it
<nubae> Yeah, telepathy is amazingly cool like that, in that it ties into the whole communications system of the desktop
<nubae> be it kde or gnome, or things like Sugar
<dinda> highvoltage: exactly, that is definitely something we could use in training classrooms
<alkisg> Can the teacher forcefully include a student? Or the students have to join themselves?
<LaserJock> nubae: so the teacher can easily create/edit these groups and their memebrship?
<nubae> now, what we do is essentially communicate with mission control to do the majority of these tasks
<nubae> LaserJock, yes there are 2 parts to it, a "xmpp resource manager" (for lack of a better label)
<nubae> which the teacher launches, then can create groups, based on multi user chatrooms
<nubae> these MUCs can then have tubes launched in them to enable collaboration
<nubae> I'm trying to keep the technoical details out of it, but its hard to seperate at this stage... but to really simplify it... 2 apps, the teacher's resource manager to create groups and manage permissions to apps
<nubae> and the students app, which grabs available groups (think of them as classrooms or subjects)
<nubae> and allows membership to them
<LaserJock> very cool stuff
<nubae> the teacher sees the students joining groups
<LaserJock> it would be nice to see something like that make it into Edubuntu 10.04
<nubae> and can thereby be sure the right people are in the right groups, etc
<nubae> well... this is a pretty serious project at work right now, and we've got a good 4 people working on it
<nubae> We hopefully dont need to touch any C, and can do most of it with python via dbus bindings
<LaserJock> we'd obviously need the telepathy bits and probably a jabber server
<nubae> which is what telepathy is advertised as enabling (btw... for those interested, try apt-get install telepathy-inspector, great tool to see how all this works)
<nubae> yes, one needs telepathy, especially mission control installed
<nubae> telepathy-gabble and telepathy-salut
<nubae> ejabberd preferrably
<LaserJock> nubae: if you could get together 1) a list of software we'd need and 2) when the time comes (if it's not there yet) some tarballs or something of the apps
<nubae> and then the 2 apps we are creating, as well as any apps that work with telepathy as recommended
<alkisg> I imagine that many other apps could also utilize a group management framework like this... good work nubae! :)
<LaserJock> indeed
<nubae> Yeah, most likely we'll create a launchpad page and manage it that way
<nubae> so hopefully we can easily move from PPA to wherever
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> keep us posted
<LaserJock> we're almost out of time here
<nubae> yeah, so if anyone is interested in this, please contact me
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if there's another meeting or not
<nubae> sorry for taking up the time :-/
<LaserJock> do we have any other pressing issues?
<LaserJock> nubae: no, not at all
<highvoltage> np nubae, thanks for sharing :)
<LaserJock> nubae: that's really exciting stuff
<LaserJock> the last thing I wanted to point out is we have Edubuntu 9.10 Beta DVD's available
<highvoltage> LaserJock: oh awesome. who did the testing?
<LaserJock> [LINK] http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/beta/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/beta/
<LaserJock> highvoltage: davmor2 !
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I felt quite terrible today when I saw all the other announcements and just assumed there wasn't an ubuntu one
<nubae> ah nice... lets go take a look :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well davmore2 ftw!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I guess we should also make some noise about that then
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I added an Edubuntu section to the Ubuntu release announcement
<LaserJock> yeah, make noise!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks!
<LaserJock> and especially try to get some testing done
<LaserJock> this is sort of our last chance to get rid of show stoppers in the installer, etc.
<LaserJock> OK, so with that
<nubae> was gonna ask, what needs testing on the dvd?
<LaserJock> sort of everything
<LaserJock> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3148 has some links to test cases
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3148 has some links to test cases
<LaserJock> they're pretty generic
<LaserJock> I just basically want to make sure people can 1) install standalone Edubuntu from Live session 2) Install standalone from text installer 3) Install LTSP from text installer
<nubae> ok, i'll spend some time over the weekend taking a look, where should we post any feedback?
<LaserJock> for actual bugs you can file them
<nubae> yeah, but more general, non bugs
<sbeattie> LaserJock: davmor2's testing this week found that (2) didn't happen; you got ubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server
<LaserJock> for general feedback (or if you don't want to fight with LP) send them to edubuntu-devel
<nubae> ok cool
 * highvoltage has to go
<LaserJock> sbeattie: yeah, I saw that, I spent some time trying to figure out how those tasks are set
<LaserJock> I need to talk to cjwatson maybe about it but I didn't want to bother him during Beta
<highvoltage> thanks everyone, and goodbye from me!
<LaserJock> #endmeeting
<alkisg> Bye highvoltage, and thanks.
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:05.
<nubae> btw... is there any artwork still needed?
<LaserJock> nubae: we can always use it, and there's plenty of room
<nubae> Remember I did a whole bunch of artwork a while back... dunno if its appropriate
 * nubae waves to highvoltage 
<LaserJock> nubae: I can say it'll make it on the DVD this round (I have to figure out how to do artwork packaging) but if we have it we can get it on 10.04 which is an LTS
<LaserJock> OK everybody. Good meeting!
<LaserJock> Now let's go out there and rock the education world! ;-)
<nubae> ok, cool, perhaps I can work on some icons for then that fits with that...
<LaserJock> nubae: that's be way cool
<LaserJock> nubae: icons are a bit of a problem in general
<nubae> ok how so... lets take this to #edubuntu
<alkisg> Goodbye all!
<genii>  ~15 mins to Kubuntu mtg?
<Quintasan> genii: yes
<genii> Quintasan: OK, thanks
<cjwatson> LaserJock: I already fixed the last of edubuntu-desktop-gnome
<cjwatson> s/last/lack/
<cjwatson> LaserJock: or think I did anyway
<ScottK> o/
<JontheEchidna> \o
<Riddell> good evening friends
<Riddell> how are we feeling tonight?
<nixternal> hola
<yuriy> hi all
<Nightrose> o/
<Lure> hello all
<Riddell> anyone here for membership ce soir?
 * Lure may need to reapply when I contribute some more ;-)
<rgreening> afternoon :)
<Quintasan> \o
<Riddell> how are  we doing  for council members?
 * sistpoty waves
 * ulysses__ later will apply for membership
<Riddell> apachelogger?
<apachelogger> ahoy
 * JontheEchidna tells apachelogger to stop looking at pycode
<Riddell> rgreening? Nightrose?
<apachelogger> yeah, just drowned in kate windows :D
<Nightrose> hehe :)
 * rgreening waves
<Nightrose> *here
<Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> looks long but hopefully won't be so bad
<Riddell> rgreening: has the first item
<Riddell> "Discuss top bugs to quash"
<rgreening> Yeah, so I was wondering how we are all doing on bugs?
<Riddell> my list on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus says..
<Riddell> Some kcontrol modules missing translations
<Riddell> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout
<Riddell> KPacakgeKit broken probably due to policykit crash
<Riddell> "tech-preview" warning to be added to kubuntu netbook ubiquity
<Riddell> microblog applet broken
<Riddell> hardy upgrade needs to be enabled in DistUpgrade tool
<Riddell> although I'm not organised  enough to have looked up the bug  numbers
<Lure> Riddell: kdm does not start for me - "sudo kdm stop" is workaround - is this known
<sistpoty> oh crap, looks like I've scheduled a motu-meeting at the same time as the kubuntu meeting... so anyone here for the motu-meeting, let's defer it
<rgreening> anyone else have bugs to add as top priorities?
 * Lure has other problems with upstart though
<JontheEchidna> I know why KPackageKit lacks translation. The .mo in language-pack-* is camelcased while kpackagekit expects all lower case
<apachelogger> -.-
<james_w> what's the number for the kpackagekit/polkit bug?
<Riddell> Lure: someone else was complaining it didn't work  earlier today, there's a lot of crap in the init script we can throw away
<JontheEchidna> james_w: I'll get them
<Lure> Riddell: ok, will look for bug, otherwise report it
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: that makes sense
<JontheEchidna> the thing that doesn't make sense is why it is broken in the first place :(
<nixternal> Riddell: ya, re: KDM, I will make sure a new kdm.conf gets in the 4.3.2 builds, so if anyone is building kdebase-workspace let me know so I can get you the new upstart script
<Riddell> Lure: better if  you could remove parts of /etc/inti/kdm.conf until it  works
<JontheEchidna> bug 436748 for polkit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436748 in kdebase-workspace "polkit-kde-manager assert failure: *** glibc detected *** polkit-kde-manager: double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x089cb310 ***" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436748
<Riddell> nixternal: what are  you changing?
<Lure> Riddell: will look into this
<JontheEchidna> most probably leading to bug 438279
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438279 in packagekit "Kpackagekit ask to report some errors " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438279
<Riddell> any other critical beasties?
<JontheEchidna> those system-config-printer-kde ones I mentioned earlier
<Riddell> yep got those
<JontheEchidna> cool
<nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/files/kdm.conf  <- Riddell
<nixternal> getting rid of the stuff that isn't necessary right now
<james_w> JontheEchidna: you didn't answer my question on the packagekit bug
<Riddell> nixternal: you can put that into bzr then
<james_w> JontheEchidna: I don't think that polkit bug is the cause of the packagekit one
<nixternal> removing all of that does a couple of things:  1) it doesn't break anything that isn't already broken, and 2) is makes starting up faster
 * JontheEchidna looks
<bigbrovar> .
<ScottK> Riddell: On the "don't give it to grandma" warning, shtylman gave me a pointer, so I think I can take care of that after I get the text coordinated with upstream.
<Riddell> ScottK: yeah he said it was just a  text file that has to appear somewhere
<ScottK> Riddell: Yep.
<rgreening> cool
<rgreening> I assume it needs localization?
<ScottK> No, too late for that.
<Riddell> that's an issue
<rgreening> oh well...
<ScottK> I don't see it as an issue as we don't actually have translators anyway
<rgreening> it is a "preview" :)
<Riddell> I'll get those bugs milestoned if they're not  alrady
<Riddell> and assign them to nixternal
<nixternal> Riddell: kdm.conf in bzr now...whoever does the kdebase-workspace build, remember to add it to changelog
<nixternal> heh
<Riddell> you  know you want them :)
<Riddell> next topic?
<nixternal> what bugs am I getting?
<rgreening> Dragon vs Kaffiene
<Riddell> epic battle No 1
<Riddell> Kaffeine works great for me
<Nightrose> *lol*
<nixternal> ditto
<rgreening> So, I think we are prob in agreement to go with Dragon?
<Riddell> how bad is the startup bug?
<ScottK> I think that we ought to be sure before we change.
<nixternal> though I don't use it as insanely as others might though
<ScottK> i.e. tie goes to what we currently have
<JontheEchidna> Riddell: it received 3 duplicate reports at launchpad
<rgreening> I've experience random crashes with kaff
 * Quintasan install mplayer-nogui +smplayer
<JontheEchidna> which for an application crash is somewhat common, compared to the volume we get for other crashes
<nixternal> yikes, I just got twitter spammed big time
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: can we ask them if the new ver
<rgreening> any other people have comments or experience with kaffiene?
<nixternal> k, I will be afk for 5 minutes..dogs gotta go outside..brb
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: can we ask them if the new version  I  just uploaded fixes it?
 * ScottK didn't use it much, but hasn't had problems.
 * apachelogger either
<rgreening> Im thinking perception wise, we may want to default back to dragon...
<rgreening> kaffiene is still there for those to test/install...
<rgreening> We are getting some flack for the "alpha-ness" of our apps... going with dragon could be a win in that area at least
<rgreening> any thoughts regarding that?
<ScottK> Riddell: I need to run out for ~30 minutes.  Would you please move the Quassel/Konvi battle later in the meeting?
 * apachelogger agrees completely
<apachelogger> better save than sorry
<apachelogger> IMHO
<Riddell> ScottK: ok
 * ScottK too
<apachelogger> we can ask for feedback on kaffeine
<Riddell> move kaffeine to DVD then?
<rgreening> Riddell: I believe thats the best
<apachelogger> aye
<rgreening> and Dragon as default
<rgreening> on both
<rgreening> at least we save face somewhat :)
<Riddell> nixternal: do you know how late changes like this affect docs, including jjesse (is he doing the book still?)
<nixternal> Riddell: we can't change docs anymore...the freeze is in effect
<Quintasan> :|
<Nightrose> ...
<JontheEchidna> bah
<Riddell> .. waits for netsplit to fix itself..
<JontheEchidna> ...and let's give it up for netsplits
<Riddell> welcome back netsplitters
<JontheEchidna> ooh... docs still list kaffeine as being default, don't they
<rgreening> heh
<Riddell> nixternal: got an opinion on changing an app now from a docs view?
<nixternal> changing kaffeine with dragon right?
<JontheEchidna> I guess that's the downside of deciding things around beta time v.v
<Riddell> nixternal: yes
<nixternal> rock on, it is good
<nixternal> we have Dragon in the docs already
<rgreening> haha
<JontheEchidna> nice
<rgreening> bonus
<rgreening> :)
<Riddell> ok we'll do that, we should contact kaffeine upstream about this bug though
<Nightrose> next battle?
<Riddell> epic battle No 3, K3b 3 vs k3b 4
<nixternal> dragon was default in jaunty right? that's probably why it never got changed :)
<JontheEchidna> nixternal: yea
<nixternal> groovy
<JontheEchidna> k3b'll probably be less epic
<bigbrovar> nods
<nixternal> I use k3b4 and don't have probs, then again I am not doing anything crazy once again
<Riddell> my impression is that k3b 3 is bitrotting
<JontheEchidna> rgreening: did you want to introduce k3b or shall I?
<nixternal> I know the little horn at the end gets cut off, but other than that, nothing
<Riddell> so it's not going  to be any better
<Riddell> nixternal: isn't that deliberate?  it was a bloody stupid sound
<nixternal> haha, I liked it :)
<JontheEchidna> mostly it seems ok, but I think we should still be wary about it's alpha status
<Riddell> both suse and mandriva are using k3b 4
<Quintasan> I had no problems with k3b kde4. Won't putting kde3 be a place eater?
<Riddell> Quintasan: yes it will
<nixternal> it seems from all of the comments, nobody is bashing k3b
<JontheEchidna> ok, so k3b kde4 is probably the best anybody can do for now
<nixternal> seems it is translations, network mangler...
<rgreening> sry.. back
 * apachelogger notes that k3b kde4 is about 30% translated to german
<Riddell> it's just yet  another bit of kde 4 porting pain, let's not do kde 5 any time soon
 * apachelogger also notes that since translations are on the bash, k3b kde4 is not helping
<nixternal> apachelogger: like that matters, it will get broken in LP anyways :p
<rgreening> I have tested k3b extensively. all seems fine to me.
<Quintasan> nixternal: lol
<apachelogger> nixternal: wells, only by 20%, so it still would be more than twice as translated :P
<nixternal> hehe
<rgreening> so, we stick with K3B kde4
<JontheEchidna> the only thing I'm worried about is the dead upstream and translations
<JontheEchidna> *things *are
<Riddell> mandriva is upstream and it just gets done as they have  resources
<rgreening> well, I fixed one issue with normalize. Im sure we could handle more issues as they come up
<rgreening> I dont mind being the goto for k3b :0
<Riddell> it was also pointed out that most of the issues come from wodin not the frontend that is k3b
<JontheEchidna> this is true. I hate wodim with a vengance
<JontheEchidna> wodim probably owes me a dollar in blank CDs
<Riddell> ok "kopete-facebook inclusion"
<Riddell> I think this has to go
<Quintasan> Riddell: we get to translate k3b via LP or I need to contact upstream?
<apachelogger> buggy as hell
<Nightrose> :(
<JontheEchidna> yeah, kopete-facebook is nice but is too unstable
<Nightrose> ohnoes
<rgreening> did we deal with the IRC issue yet Riddell
<apachelogger> crashes kopete at times
<apachelogger> always at quitting
<Riddell> which is a shame, but it doesn't work and the trunk  doesn't make things any better
<JontheEchidna> it should go
 * Nightrose sobs a little
<Riddell> rgreening: ScottK asked for it later
<rgreening> right
<rgreening> my bad
<Riddell> someone needs to start a "Facebook follow  up on  your promise for an XMPP interface" group on facebook
<rgreening> Facebook plugin is nice, but crashy. agreed. move to DVD and not instal by default
<Nightrose> Riddell: i'm sure there is one ;-)
<Riddell> "kubuntu-dev team and archive reorg"
<Riddell> I created a ~kubuntu-dev team and hopefully  tech board will approve it soon for the Kubuntu part of archive reorg
<Riddell> so members can be approved to upload Kubuntu stuff
<Lure> Riddell: will this cover universe/kde/qt stuff?
<rgreening> cool. Does this cover all Qt/KDE?
<nixternal> yes
<JontheEchidna> what about qt/kde apps listed in other package categories (I think a few are in the sound section)
<Riddell> I've actually no  idea how the list is  defined
<Riddell> cjwatson?
<maco> so the way it works is ~kubuntu-dev approves people for ~kubuntu-ninjas?
<maco> because cjwatson setup the ACLs for ~kubuntu-ninjas
<nixternal> hrmm
<Riddell> err, that's not right
<JontheEchidna> kubuntu-ninjas is basically just a private ppa
<nixternal> not at all
<maco> oh dear
<nixternal> ACLs should be for ~kubuntu-dev
<Riddell> ~kubuntu-ninjas is whoever wants to help out  with KDE packaging, ~kubuntu-dev is the uploaders
<apachelogger> aye
<Riddell> currently ~kubuntu-dev has the ~ubuntu-core-dev  people who are into KDE in it
<Riddell> the question is how do we add people  to  ~kubuntu-dev
<Riddell> and  ScottK's suggestion  is have existing ~kubuntu-dev members approve them
<rgreening> draw straws?
<rgreening> :)
<nixternal> I would say have a core and non-core
<nixternal> though...I don't think we need to (right now?)
<nixternal> I say we create a team, or a group of members, who can be trusted to do developer applications
<Riddell> nixternal: there's just one list, cjwatson will know how it's defined
<rgreening> Riddell: I would agree that we should be able to have ~kubuntu-dev members approve
<nixternal> a team of 3, with the KC with the final yay/nay?
<nixternal> kind of like MC does for core-dev
<Riddell> I don't think it needs another team, everyone in ~kubuntu-dev can decide
<apachelogger> KC is not a developer council
<nixternal> Riddell: ya, that works, with the kc being the final say so
<Riddell> we  can  review that  if  it gets too big but that's not a  problem for the moment
<Lure> Riddell: I would suggest formal request on kubuntu-devel mailing list + 2 ACK required from existing members
<apachelogger> nixternal: technically the KC can consist of no developers at all?
<rgreening> heh. we will need to write up the policies surrounding this.
<apachelogger> so non-developers would decided who becomes a developer?
<rgreening> as we develop them..
<nixternal> also, should we move all of the core stuff over to ~kubuntu-dev instead of ~kubuntu-members?
<ryanakca> nixternal: I'm not too familiar with the archive reorganization, but I'd say split core / non-core, take me for example, you can probably trust my packaging for a simple app that isn't used very much, but a big complicated app used my many people, you wouldn't want me touching it (and I wouldn't want to either ;) )
<Riddell> actually ~developer-membership-board would have the final say so
<Quintasan> +1 on what ryanakca said
 * Lure is confused now - what will happen with existing motu/core-dev?
<nixternal> apachelogger: no, ~kubuntu-dev members could recommend to the KC...I trust non-devs to trust those in ~kubuntu-dev
<apachelogger> nixternal: that makes contribution more difficult
<nixternal> Lure: it will vanish
<ryanakca> For the logs - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation
<maco> ryanakca: you can of course choose not to touch packages you're uncomfortable with
<apachelogger> nixternal: yeah, but considering the KC can consist of non-devs what would they base their decsision on?
<nixternal> apachelogger: how so? MOTU and Core Dev don't make it more difficult
<Lure> nixternal: understand, but I though migration will be done somehow
<apachelogger> kubuntu-dev can decided on their own then as well :P
<Riddell> nixternal: no reason not to keep the bzr open, we will review stuff before it's uploaded
<nixternal> apachelogger: the approval or disapproval of the ~kubuntu-dev members
 * rgreening agrees with maco and apachelogger
<apachelogger> nixternal: because the devs would have to merge
<ryanakca> maco: I can, but what's to prevent someone else from touching packages they aren't comfortable with? imho, having access to core packages is effectively like having root access on *everybody's* box, where as universe packages, you've been warned, they aren't supported, install at your own risk.
<apachelogger> nixternal: I do not think that I will merge every change from Quintasan just because he might not yet be equiped with the access control for uploads
<Lure> ryanakca: I agree with maco that for start we should just base it on trust that people will do only stuff that they feel confortable with
 * ryanakca nods
<apachelogger> nixternal: while I can turst that any member of kubuntu-dev is capable of reviewing a bzr log
<nixternal> apachelogger: for something like that, then we can Quintasan ACL approval per app
<nixternal> we don't have to give access to every app
<apachelogger> nixternal: that does not affect the branch, does it?
<Quintasan> ACL?
<nixternal> no
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> that is my point :P
<apachelogger> branches should stay in kubuntu-members
<maco> ryanakca: the point of the archive reorg is to change from core/non-core to having access to only packages you're involved wtih. though whether kubuntu should be split up into more pieces like parts of ubuntu desktop are is another question
<nixternal> Quintasan: access control list
<ryanakca> ah, ok
<apachelogger> at least until the whole ubuntu branch stuff takes off and we upload ACL can match push ACL
<apachelogger> -we
<nixternal> I think in the mean time we can put this off for further discussion, as I don't think it hampers the release of 9.10 at all
<rgreening> kubuntu is small enough that more than one group is too much...
<rgreening> KISS is a great principle :)
<maco> rgreening: thats what i thought
<ryanakca> :)
<JontheEchidna> +1 defer to later
<rgreening> what JontheEchidna said +1
<rgreening> :)
 * ryanakca nods, for later here too :)
<nixternal> rgreening: KISS doesn't scale well :p
<rgreening> no scale here to worry about...
<Nightrose> we don't really have scaling problems right now ;-)
<rgreening> xactly
<rgreening> :)
<nixternal> forget about the future then!
<rgreening> lol
<nixternal> that's why twitter has issues, they only thought a few people would use, not millions
<rgreening> next topic? Package updates
 * Nightrose misses amarok in the list ;-()
<rgreening> K3b fix for normalize - done
<JontheEchidna> arora, kdepim, kdebluetooth have been uploaded
<nixternal> 4.3.2?
<rgreening> a new arora fix is coming 0.10.1 tonight/tomorrow....
<JontheEchidna> 4.3.2 is being worked on by our crack team of ninjas
<nixternal> why an upload of kdepim right now then?
<Riddell> changes from agateau
<JontheEchidna> because kontact crashes on startup if you have a search folder
<rgreening> there's a serious SSL authentication issue - it fails on some sites. icefox says he has it fixed and will release a poiunt rel tonight
<Lure> we are two releases behind with kipi-plugins and new digikam beta planned for this week
<Lure> problem is that kipi-plugins in debian depends on debhelper 7.3.16 - anyboady know why it is needed
 * Lure does not follow all debhelper changes
<Riddell> I'd expect modax knows
<JontheEchidna> I don't think we would have to merge, would we?
<rgreening> Lure: try building with the ubuntu ver..
<Lure> rgreening: will probably find some time over weekend to look into this
<JontheEchidna> so it looks like we have updates under control
<Riddell> Lure: will you be able to file  the FFe  requests?
<Lure> Riddell: will do, but will need core-dev support with them
<Riddell> Lure: ping me with that
<rgreening> Lure: excellent
<Lure> Riddell: for digikam will ask for all versions up-to release candidate
<Riddell> (of course I may reject it, no promises!)
<rgreening> hah
<Lure> Riddell: I know that you can be hard!
<Lure> ;-)
 * rgreening bows to our leader
<Riddell> yuriy has an item
<rgreening> Riddell: before we move to that...
<rgreening> Qt/KDE
<rgreening> Did you find out if qt 4.5.3 is ok for KDE 4.3.x
<Riddell> rgreening: what about them?
<rgreening> see above
<rgreening> :)
<Riddell> rgreening: I asked on  release-team, no replies yet.  there's no reason why it shouldn't be
<rgreening> ok. Im good then
<yuriy> ok, what do we want to do with crash handling after release?
<Riddell> I vote for Dr Konqi
<JontheEchidna> please, let's use dr. konqi
 * Nightrose too
<Riddell> we should have purged our
<Lure> +1
<nixternal> oh man
<apachelogger> the doctor
<JontheEchidna> ...is in
<Riddell> we should have purged our crashes by then (in theory) so what's  left is upstreams
<Riddell> and silently crashing is for weird desktops
<nixternal> "in theory" :)
<rgreening> the Dr. :)
<yuriy> i'm not big on silently crashing either
<Riddell> yuriy: at UDS  we did discuss the  option  of  having  apport on for some apps after release
<yuriy> that would be possible, but would take some work
<Nightrose> an dr konqui is actually decent and useful for upstream \o/
<Riddell> which would make sense for some  of  our own ones
<rgreening> like k3b
<yuriy> can anybody think of specific things we would want that for?
<rgreening> ha
<rgreening> usb-creator-kde
<JontheEchidna> using dr konqi just makes all upstream crashes languish here until I find the time to upstream them
<Riddell> yuriy: update-notifier-kde,  ubiquity, usb-creator-kde, anything which uses pykde really  :)
<JontheEchidna> apport
<JontheEchidna> not dr konqi
<JontheEchidna> using apport just makes all upstream crashes languish here until I find the time to upstream them
 * ScottK is back
<JontheEchidna> \o
<yuriy> Riddell: none of those would have any crash handler?
<Riddell> yuriy: no, just python backtraces  on the command line if you're lucky
<yuriy> yeah i think hooks for those would be nice
<JontheEchidna> python support for dr. konqi'd be sweet
<Riddell> yuriy: can you ask pitti how easy it would be  to have apport kept on for only those?
<yuriy> nixternal: have you looked at how to do that at all?
<yuriy> Riddell: I will
<nixternal> hooks are fairly easy and straight forward
<yuriy> JontheEchidna: file a bug ;)
<Riddell> next item?
<Riddell> Quintasan has an item about ibus, scary
<Quintasan> hah, not really
<Quintasan> I have noticed japanse/chinese input was broken since KDE 4
<rgreening> lol
<JontheEchidna> too bad the kimpanel widget doesn't support ibus :(
<Quintasan> Now I have tested ibus along with anthy and it works
<Riddell> well I believe Qt has an ibus input method so if you have ibus working it should be ok
<Riddell> but there's no working KDE frontend for it
<Riddell> kimpanel doesn't support the current ibus version and upstream never got back to me so has likely fallen  off the internet
<JontheEchidna> :(
<Quintasan> I got it to work very easily
<Riddell> Quintasan: which?
<ScottK> On the list of stuff that needs updating, there's a new xz-utils release that fixes a file corruption bug.
<ScottK> (sorry, wasn't here for that part)
<Quintasan> Riddell: install ibus-anthy and run ibus-setup and add your desired input method
<Riddell> Quintasan: but with the gnome frontend presumably?
<Quintasan> the problem is all of KDE apps have XIM as default IM selected
<Riddell> Quintasan: selected where?
<Quintasan> Riddell: right click on input box and Select Input Method
<Riddell> hmm, where did that come from
<Riddell> so does something need changed in Qt to use ibus?
<apachelogger> we need to set Qt to use ibus by default
<Quintasan> ibus-setup looks like KDE app with out k-d-s so users wont even notice :P
<apachelogger> because I think that IM stuff is coming from Qt, isnt it?
<Riddell> I wonder where  that is set
<rgreening> almost out of time...
<Riddell> Quintasan: fancy seeing if you can find out where that is set?
<rgreening> though I dont think anything else is scheduled after us
<JontheEchidna> don't we have another hour?
<rgreening> nm
<Quintasan> Riddell: I will look into it, I have tried export QT_IM_MODULE=ibus but it didn't help
<rgreening> I was thinking we had 1 hr... not 2 haha
<rgreening> my bad
<Riddell> Quintasan: I'll ask some Qt people too,  or maybe ArneGoetje as an idea
 * rgreening is used to 1 hr meetings
<JontheEchidna> this is a supermeeting
<Quintasan> also I have a question, shouldn't mplayerthumbs depend on mplayer OR mplayer-nogui?
<JontheEchidna> Quintasan: probably
<Quintasan> AFAIK it works for KDE apps and mplayer package pulls gnome frontend
<Riddell> quite probably, debdiffs always good
<JontheEchidna> I'll fix that when I update it for KDE 4.3.2
<Riddell> sorted
<Riddell> epic battle No 3 time?
<JontheEchidna> IRC battle time
<Riddell> we have  two good  candidates I think
<Riddell> so whatever the  choice the users  should  be winners
<Riddell> myself I use  irssi so  I don't have too  much  of  an  opinion
<rgreening> Is konversation still alpha or beta or rc?
<Riddell> but Konversation  has the most  mindshare
<JontheEchidna> rgreening: final release next week
<rgreening> cool
<Riddell> rgreening: it's being released in line with our schedule
<apachelogger> poor users always get irc forced onto them :(
<Quintasan> I like Quassel for client-server build but it lacks scripting :/
<rgreening> I've gotten quite used to quassel haha
<Riddell> Quintasan: client-server  isn't  what's on the CD so that's not a factor
<rgreening> to me it only matters if it's stable and lacking bugs
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/QuasselvsKonvi shows more  red for  Quassel
<rgreening> quassel has no bugs affecting me ... I cant speak to konversation
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> the page is biased
 * Lure likes nick colors in konversation, but misses history from quassel ;-)
<apachelogger> big time
<Nightrose> Riddell: last i checked that list it wasn't too accurate
<Nightrose> yea
 * rgreening looks
<ScottK> Riddell: Keep in mind that was written by someone who wanted Konversation.
<JontheEchidna> :3
<ScottK> The only conclusion you can draw from that page is that Quassel is not Koversation.
<ScottK> Quassel has really matured in this cycle and I would like to keep it.
<Quintasan> I prefer scripting so I'd like to have Konverastion
<JontheEchidna> Quassel lacks accessible help documentation as well as bi-directional text support
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> is the documentation up-to-date in konvi
<apachelogger> and is it translated
<JontheEchidna> yes
<apachelogger> if not then its all the same really
<rgreening> Im on the fence. I loved konvi before quassel and now I love quassel
<ScottK> Quassel also lacks the 'feature' of using language packs for translations, so it's translations work.
<apachelogger> ehm
<JontheEchidna> Documentation has been kept up to date upstream, and has official KDE translation support
<apachelogger> that is a feature for quassel really
<ScottK> Right, KDE translation support means we lose out
<JontheEchidna> At least in Spanish, Quassel's translations are somewhat...lacking
<rgreening> anyone else on the fence or have a strong reason one way or the other?
 * apachelogger thinks the user will not care either way :P
<Nightrose> i like quassel and have not tried the kde 4 version of konversation so...
<rgreening> nixternal: what do our docs say? quassel or konversation ?
<ScottK> I like the way notificatons are integrated into Quasell.  I think it's way better than just the icon blinking at me.
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: the blinkign tray is not on by default, and KNotifications can easily be implemented in k-d-s
<apachelogger> agreed
 * ScottK did try Konversation KDE4 for a bit, and it felt a bit stale.
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Yeah, but even if it's on, it's not as fancy as what Quassel has.
<nixternal> quassel
<JontheEchidna> spanish isn't even listed as an available translation in quassel :(
<apachelogger> general note: apparently quassel is all in all occupying less space than konvi
<ScottK> If you've been highlighted multiple times, now you can keep clicking on the tray icon and it'll cycle through the channels until you hit the one you want
<rgreening> I think the majority of people using IRC will choose the client they like anyway. Our job is to provide something that works well for the majority and looks great doing it.
<JontheEchidna> quassel occupies less space because it lacks docs
<apachelogger> for consideration of CD real estate that is
<rgreening> +1 for quassel (never thoufght Id say that)
<JontheEchidna> chosing quassel is a negative for documentation and translation
<ScottK> It is a positive for consistency.
<apachelogger> we chose k3b kde 4
<apachelogger> that is as negative for translations :P
<ScottK> I disagree about translation, BTW.
 * apachelogger notes that one should not start to argue about translations with apachelogger
 * ScottK thinks he is on apachelogger's side on this one
 * ScottK hopes so
<Nightrose> vote? (everyone seems to have given their arguments)
<apachelogger> TBH I dont think that the user will care
<JontheEchidna> why is not having spanish a good thing for quassel?
<ScottK> The translations Quassel has are at least presented reliably.
<apachelogger> either way Kubuntu will again be partially untranslated
<JontheEchidna> it seems that chosing KDE's official IRC client would be a no-brainer for a KDE distribution
<apachelogger> and either way they will get a working IRC client
<JontheEchidna> rather than choosing one with tacked-on KDE integration and sub-par translations and documentation
<apachelogger> either way they will, as always, largely not read documentation
<apachelogger> either way they will install their preferred client anyway
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Konversation is not KDE's official IRC client
<apachelogger> considering they are using IRC enough to have a preferred client
 * Nightrose doesn't think quassel's kde integration is tacked on
<Nightrose> it is rather good here
 * apachelogger does not think that any sensible argument can be made for either of those apps for karmic :S
<Riddell> I can't think of a way to decide other than a council vote
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: BTW, Sput just told me he'd love to add any translations that people provide.
 * ScottK neither
<JontheEchidna> ScottK: that's fine. But I don't have any. Konversatoin does though
 * rgreening thinks he can convince wife to xlate quassel for pt and es
<rgreening> :)
<Riddell> I'm +1 for konversation due to notable non-KDE mindshare
<ScottK> Excellent.
<JontheEchidna> Quassel lacks much of the UI consistency that KDE apps have, mainly in the categories of menubar layout and system tray context menus
<ScottK> Who else is around on the council?
 * Lure thinks if there is not many good arguments to change, we should keep the same program as in previous release
<Riddell> JontheEchidna, rgreening, Nightrose, apachelogger
<apachelogger> hm
 * Lure hates often changes to default programs
<JontheEchidna> +1 Konversation
<rgreening> +1 for quassel ...
<apachelogger> I must agree with Lure
<apachelogger> +1 quassel
<rgreening> 2-2
<Riddell> Nightrose: pressure
<JontheEchidna> we only changed to quassel because konversation wasn't ready yet
 * Nightrose is +1 for quassel on grounds of translation and latest improvements
<ScottK> BTW, the layout of Quassel's systray context menu is identical to the KNM one
<ScottK> So if Quassel isn't KDE like, neither is that
<Riddell> well, it's a decision
<Nightrose> and having it in jaunty
<Lure> JontheEchidna: agreed, but changing back should also have good reasoning
<JontheEchidna> Lure: Konversation has better translation and documentatoin support
<JontheEchidna> officially backed by KDE
<rgreening> that battle went the full 3 rounds in a title fight.
 * Nightrose is relieved - i thought we'd end up cuddling all night
<JontheEchidna> I don't but the argument that we should just give up on konversation jsut because we'll have partially translated stuff elsewhere in kubuntu :/
<Nightrose> ;-)
<nixternal> switching to konvi breaks all kinds of freezes fyi
 * Quintasan can adapt to almost every IRC client so he doesn't care very much bout this
<Riddell> any other business?
<nixternal> Feature Freeze, User Interface Freeze, and in a way Documentation String Freeze
<nixternal> yes
<apachelogger> nixternal: we agreed to postpone the decision, so nvm
<JontheEchidna> then why did we say we'd decide at beta time in the first place?
<nixternal> I will be gone from Oct. 15 until the 15th of November
 * apachelogger will create a nixternal bot for that time frame
<nixternal> cycling my butt off, so I will miss the release of Karmic but will be back to kick off Lucid
<Riddell> we'll  need to  delay the release!
<nixternal> apachelogger: a bot that does nothing, is that useful?
<apachelogger> does nothing and throw random word combinations at random times
<apachelogger> just like the real one :D
<Lure> Riddell: that might help in getting digikam 1.0/final in ;-)
<nixternal> I will be back Nov. 12
<nixternal> though I am sure I will be useless for a few days afterwards...almost 30 days of cycling straight
 * Quintasan wonders if he got sponsorship
 * apachelogger notes that no one proposed a release delay when he went to pursue geriatric care :P
<Riddell> we skipped over the ~kubuntu-dev decision, I'd like to suggest ~kubuntu-dev can approve new uploaders for itself in some suitably open manor (posting to  kubuntu-devel probably)
<ScottK> +1
<apachelogger> +1
<Nightrose> sounds good
<ScottK> I do think the council needs to vote on this
 * apachelogger either
<Riddell> it's only for kubuntu packages to main as far as I know, universe is still through MC
<nixternal> shouldn't that be a KC vote?
<nixternal> I support whatever the KC decides (usually) :)
<rgreening> +1
<Lure> Riddell: I think requests should be done on mailing list and some minimal time for discussion (one week)
<Riddell> Lure: makes sense
<Lure> and agree that KC should approve the process first
<apachelogger> we are doing right now :P
<ScottK> nixternal: Can you write us up something that looks a lot like the MOTU process?
<rgreening> 3 +'s
<ScottK> (cjwatson said that would be easy to get approved by the TB/BMD)
<ScottK> BMD/DMB
<nixternal> yes
<JontheEchidna> +1
 * Lure needs to learn these new acronyms ;-)
<ScottK> Developer Membership Board
<nixternal> I need to run for a bit...I will be back in a bit...if you plan stuff for me, highlight me and let me know so I can add it to my todo list..and don't be vague where you have me scheduled to fix a bazillion bugs either :)
<Lure> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Currently it's coincident with the Tech Board membership, but that may change
<nixternal> bbiab
<ScottK> nixternal: Fix a bazillion -1
<Riddell> any other any other business?
<rgreening> not here
<Riddell> then enjoy your weekend
<Nightrose> not here either
 * rgreening notes that I am hungry though
<Nightrose> o/
<Quintasan> \o
 * ScottK notes rgreening hungry is not news
 * apachelogger demands shorter meetings 
<rgreening> lol
<Riddell> try not to spend it all infront of a laptop
 * rgreening notes ScottKneeds ot bring my coat to UDS
<ScottK> That's true
<apachelogger> out of fun you might want to write a spec for that :)
<JontheEchidna> then assign it to nixternal!
<JontheEchidna> since he loves getting specs assigned to him
<apachelogger> so he told us
<JontheEchidna> so I guess this meeting's over?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-03
<effie_jayx> ?>
<allee-k> KarmicUpgrades misses:  how to upgrade jaunty -> karmic without X (broken jaunty Xserver)  :(
<allee-k> sorry wrong window/channel :(
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-04
<mdeslaur> kees, jdstrand, sbeattie: meeting?
<kees> mdeslaur: \o
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: sure.
<jdstrand> o/
 * kees starts
<kees> did a couple security fake-syncs.
<kees> couchdb exploded due to autoconf-hate, so I've skipped it for now on jaunty
<kees> been trying to keep up with kernel CVE triage; there have been a lot lately
<kees> this week I'll likely spend time rebasing yama and nx-emut o natty's kernel
<kees> s/ut o/u to/
<kees> I've got 2 things unembargoed this week as well
<kees> and I'll be poking at maverick final testing. might even update the colo to RC
<kees> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> ok, my turn
<mdeslaur> So I'm trying to figure out a way of testing the lvm2 cluster daemon
<mdeslaur> so I can test my lvm2 updates
<mdeslaur> and am on triage
<mdeslaur> I'll pick something from the list if I have time
<mdeslaur> That's it from me
 * sbeattie facepalms as he clearly can't read topic messages and thought he was on triage this week.
<mdeslaur> lol
<sbeattie> anyway, last week I spent some time on apparmor build issues and coping with copious gpg key changes.
<sbeattie> I'm hoping to push out some patches to the apparmor list for review later today.
<sbeattie> since I'm *not* triaging, I'll try to pick up some open issues this week.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me, jdstrand?
<jdstrand> I'm on community
<jdstrand> last week I did quite a bit of install auditing for maverick, and will continue that this week
<jdstrand> the rng tests are still churning away
<jdstrand> I got back into my libvirt update and am continuing to work on it
<jdstrand> there is some upstream feedback that I need to tend to on libvirt not related to that update
<jdstrand> I plan to start looking at moodle once libvirt is out the door
<kees> oh, that reminds me, I'm happy with the dieharder results. it's got a few sensitive tests, but other than that, it looks good.
<jdstrand> I'm not sure that will be this week or next, but that is the plan
<jdstrand> kees: were you able to update the qrt test to be less sensitive? I saw some commits go by, but didn't look at them closely
<kees> jdstrand: basically it came down to two specific tests complaining, so I set them to XFAIL. I didn't create anything more complex, as that seemed like overkill.
<jdstrand> kees: sounds fine
<jdstrand> wrt the rng tests, I'm doing collision testing and the kernel passed for both /dev/random and /dev/urandom
<jdstrand> it is in the gnupg tests now
<kees> excellent
<jdstrand> I have one item for the end of the meeting, and stefanlsd may also have something (or may not, it is up to him)
<jdstrand> that is it from me (until later)
<jdstrand> we could mention that we've all done our gpg migration
<kees> indeed!
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GPGMigration
<jdstrand> for those listening at home, we've tested various applications and how they deal with the new secure defaults from upstream gnupg
<jdstrand> for lucid and maverick
<jdstrand> we determined it was ok to migrate, and have instructions on what to do to migrate keys in that wiki link
<jdstrand> (the wiki has the results of the investigations)
 * jdstrand is really done, until the end
<stefanlsd> I wanted to speak about community uploaded rights to -security for unseeded, but wanted to chat to a few more people, so i'll postpone till i have more info.
<kees> sbeattie: oh, btw, can you update your reviews of mutt and gmail to use the review template?
<sbeattie> kees: sure thing.
<kees> jdstrand: the stuff you added about removing your old key...
<kees> jdstrand: why not just specify a numerical id instead of email?
<kees> e.g. debsign can use an id
<jdstrand> kees: that is indeed the recommended and first method under the NOTE
<kees> jdstrand: right, I guess I mean, why should the other method ever be used?
<jdstrand> kees: they only (potential) problem with that is if you have several applications to change. you might want to instead change the order of your secret keyring so they all just get the default
<jdstrand> kees: ie, what you suggest is for every application. the 2nd method will affect all applications but is a little trickier
<kees> jdstrand: okidoky. I found one place in umt where it was using email instead of id, and fixed that. otherwise, everything else I found uses id
<kees> right
<jdstrand> the third is weird, and could be removed, but is listed for completeness
<kees> okidoky. sounds fine; was just curious how it even came up as a need. :) sorry to derail!
<jdstrand> I had to change quite a few things, but won't list them
<kees> I changed it in 3 places. .devscripts .ubuntu-security-tools.conf .muttrc
<jdstrand> kees: it came up because I kept finding stuff and wanted it to be changed in one spot rather than many
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> kees: it was rather evolutionary
<kees> 4, .gnupg/gpg.conf
<kees> anyway... you had another topic?
<jdstrand> yes, it was for what to include in the lucid apparmor sru
<jdstrand> I plan to perform the sru, but wanted to coordinate with jj-afk and sbeattie
<jdstrand> jj-afk is still out, so maybe we'll discuss it in #ubuntu-hardened when he is online
<jdstrand> (he mentioned he might pop in for the discussion)
<sbeattie> okay.
<jdstrand> so, that is it from me
<kees> will we SRU 2.5.1 final to maverick first?
<jdstrand> kees: that is part of the discuss I think
<jdstrand> discussion
<jdstrand> right now, we know we want 2.5.1, but there are also some attractive testsuite fixes in 2.5.2
<jdstrand> maverick has most of 2.5.1 anyway, so... there is a lot to talk about :)
<kees> heh
<kees> well, getting lucid onto 2.5.1 will fix the kernel instabilities too, iirc.
 * sbeattie was hoping someone would ack the rest of the 2.5 testsuite nominations he made. :-)
<jdstrand> kees: but iiuc, you want to make sure that lucid isn't ahead of maverick. it won't be-- we will do a maverick SRU first, then lucid, depending on what we want
<kees> cool
<jdstrand> kees: actually, lucid should be solid now with just the kernel updates
<kees> jdstrand: did the kernel updates actually make it into lucid?
<jdstrand> kees: but the userspace will still generate some invalid cache entries, but the kernel dtrt
<kees> bug 581525 seems to indicate lucid's kernel updates never happened.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581525 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "Lucid: system becomes unstable randomly, seems related with apparmor" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581525
<jdstrand> kees: that is a good question. I thought so... we need to follow up with jj-afk
<jdstrand> oh, indeed
<jdstrand> hrm
<kees> that's why I was hoping to get the lucid SRU sooner rather than later; that problem has been languishing
<jdstrand> well, we need that in lucid regardless. the apparmor userspace would help avoid it, but we really want the kernel side
<kees> sure, yeah
<kees> okay, anyone have anything else for the security team?
<jdstrand> kees: I was not suggesting 2.5.2 for lucid. I was wanting to identify what we want from 2.5.2 if anything, pull it in and then push
<jdstrand> sorry if I was unclear
<jdstrand> I would like to see the sru done by the end of the month
<kees> cool
<jdstrand> shall we call it a meeting?
<kees> yawp, all done. thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> thanks kees! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-05
<lag> o/
<mpoirier> o/
<lag> No meeting today then
<rsalveti> well, we should have it, waiting NCommander
<GrueMaster> give NCommandera few minutes to shake off the cob webs.
<davidm> G'day
<GrueMaster> NCommander has been successfully poked.
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:11. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra_ac> question is if he stays awake :)
 * NCommander had a time zone adjustment failure
<GrueMaster> Does he ever?
<ogra_ac> heh
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101005
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101005
<NCommander> No Action items or special items from last week
<NCommander> [topic] Burndown chart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Burndown chart
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogra_ac> OMG !
<ogra_ac> we're deep red
<NCommander> so there's one last action item left open, persia, can you close it? :-)
<ogra_ac> persia, !!!
<ogra_ac> NCommander, there are three
<ogra_ac> (see the overall chart)
<NCommander> [action] persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10
<NCommander> anything else on the charts?
<ogra_ac> what about the buglist ?
<NCommander> [link] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<NCommander> ogra_ac: that's separate from the burndown charts no?
<ogra_ac> k
 * ogra_ac vaguely remembers an action item for NCommander that doesnt seem to have been transferred ;)
<ogra_ac> regarding the bugs :)
 * NCommander doesn't :-)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to unassign himself from bugs (c/o)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to unassign himself from bugs (c/o)
<NCommander> anything else on the bug list?
<NCommander> I guess not
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<mpoirier> been working on b637947 all week - nothing else to report.
<mpoirier> ..
<ogra_ac> NCommander, dont you run so fast !
<ogra_ac> 7me was just typing :P
<ogra_ac> anyway
<GrueMaster> bug 637947, maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 637947 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "no sound devices on current ES2.0 boards" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637947
<lag> o/
<ogra_ac> we're working on it
<ogra_ac> trying to get patches in today
<ogra_ac> since thats the last chance to make the release
<ogra_ac> can you guys make sure the kernel team is available for us to make uploads etc ?
<NCommander> anything else from the kernel side?
<lag> * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * PATCH    : IGEPv2's 6 patches are being worked into the SRU process (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : A new set of ftrace patches have been released - will integrate in Natty (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : Received patch from TI that enables passing the MAC address to the kernel from u-boot
<lag>    * ON GOING : B637947 Latest sound patches are available from TI - configuration problem still exists
<lag>    * ON GOING : B653002 Currently under investigation - TI suspects a silicone problem
<lag>    * ON GOING : B637947 Still working on the userspace ALSA or PulseAudio configuration
<lag>    * FIXED    : B647890 Fixed the building error
<lag>    * WORKROUND: B633227 Applied patches from Nicolas to set memory 2G:2G - enabled the errata for PL310 lx20 cache controller
<lag>    * MISC     : "fakeroot debian/rules binary-omap" seems to be broken on Natty - investigation is required
<lag>    * MISC     : Some members of the Arm team received ES2.1 boards - so far it's as good as ES2.0
<lag> ..
<NCommander> ah, there's lag
<lag> :D
<lag> Hi ya
<ogra_ac> yeah, we have slow network NCommander :)
<ogra_ac> lots of lag :)
<ogra_ac> lag, Natty ?!?!
<ogra_ac> lag, please stop building omap3 in natty
<ogra_ac> that either needs to go into a feature branch again or we need to swithc to linaro
<lag> Speak to mpoirier
 * ogra_ac will add a spec for that
<mpoirier> ogra_ac: that's a company decision...
<NCommander> ogra_ac: yes well, its not my fault you forgot to pack a high-speed interneet connection from Germany ogra_ac !
<ogra_ac> mpoirier, no
<ogra_ac> mpoirier, we cant work that way, omap3 needs fixes at times where the mainline kernel cant be uploaded anymore ...
<ogra_ac> mpoirier, building omap3 delays the mainline kernel builds a lot
<ogra_ac> both teams suffer from it being in the core tree
<mpoirier> who's idea was it to put it in the core tree ?
<ogra_ac> thats an unbearable situation, we either need to change it back or completely switch to linaro kernels
<ogra_ac> mpoirier, lool's with agreement from the kernel team
<mpoirier> I suppose it was put there for a reason...
<ogra_ac> we tried it one release, its not workable
<ogra_ac> yes, "because we can"
<ogra_ac> its a test that failed badly
<mpoirier> then let's get the concerned parties together and settle on the issue.
<ogra_ac> we would have IGEP2 support properly working if we had a feature branch with separate policies
<ogra_ac> mpoirier, thats what i said above
<ogra_ac> i'll create a spec for discussion at UDS
<NCommander> ogra_ac: mpoirier I think UDS would be the proper venue for this discussion TBH
<NCommander> ah
<ogra_ac> just dont waste time on natty branches now
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
<ogra_ac> yep
<ogra_ac> just again
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra_ac> we need exceptoions and uploads
<ogra_ac> *today*
<GrueMaster> RC Testing went well.  No major issues found, except the missing installer icon on dove images, which is now fixed.
<ogra_ac> please someone be available from the kernel team to do that
<GrueMaster> Netboot image for omap was missing modules for usb.  No keyboard, no networking.  Colin has worked to fix this for release.
<ogra_ac> \o/
<mpoirier> GrueMaster: omap3 or 4 ? when was that discovered ?
<ogra_ac> ast week
<ogra_ac> *last
<GrueMaster> omap/omap3/beagle.
<ogra_ac> we dont build netboot for omap4
<ogra_ac> and omap3 are just a nice to have goodie
<ogra_ac> leftover from luicd
<GrueMaster> This is not a kernel issue.  This was an issue with debian installer.
<ogra_ac> right, that too
<GrueMaster> The modules were not included in the netboot image.
<ogra_ac> NCommander, move if there are no other questions
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<dyfet> We (ncommander and I) discussed plt-scheme yesterday
<NCommander> FTBFS looks relatively happy on all architectures, not just ARM excluding openjjfk
<ogra_ac> below 100 pkgs !!!
<ogra_ac> thanks to doko !!!
<ogra_ac> we owe him a lot, he's the only one really working actively on that list atm
<NCommander> +1 beer to doko
<ogra_ac> +3 from me :)
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_ac> omap4 runs on panda ES2.1 !!!
 * NCommander heard
<GrueMaster> WOOT!
<ogra_ac> all open RC bugs were fixed apart from sound
<NCommander> Its great when hardware is properly designed to be relatively compatible and sane
<NCommander> Dove is currently looking good, sound issue aside
<ogra_ac> not sure about omap3 (i didnt test since a while) or dove
<ogra_ac> GrueMaster, how did omap3 look last time you tested ?
<NCommander> Installer icon shows up where it should be, and its relatively fast and responsive
<GrueMaster> Looked good, other than the missing modules in the netboot image.
<NCommander> cool
<GrueMaster> Audio has the same issues across the board, though.
<GrueMaster> omap, omap4, dove.
<ogra_ac> omap and dove can have SRUs for that
<ogra_ac> omap4 will get fixes today
<NCommander> I think we're in very good shape at this point and I think armel+dove and possibly armel+omap can go out the door on 10.10.10
<ogra_ac> (or workarounds)
<ogra_ac> omap4 too
<rsalveti> hopefully
<ogra_ac> we only need the xloader patch
<ogra_ac> that should be enough, workst case all other fixes can be SRUs
<NCommander> ogra_ac: check thatwith davidm since thats contray to what I heard yesterday
<ogra_ac> xloader and uboot are the things we cant update
<NCommander> otherwise, WOO
<ogra_ac> if they are in shape omap4 is ready for 10.10.10
<ogra_ac> davidm, ^^^^
<ogra_ac> please agree
<NCommander> ogra_ac: why can't you update XLO or u-boot
<ogra_ac> NCommander, because they are not handled by packages in the image
<ogra_ac> we treat them like BIOS
<NCommander> ogra_ac: ah. fair enough.We could fix it, but it would be fugly
<ogra_ac> a way we inherit through using flash-kernel from debian
<ogra_ac> NCommander, lets fix it in a non ugly way
<ogra_ac> SPEC !!!
<NCommander> ogra_ac: right
<ogra_ac> will need good thinking through
<NCommander> [action] ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result
<ogra_ac> ++
<ogra_ac> thanks
<ogra_ac> i'll be able to tell tonight
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra_ac> really depends on the kernel team
<davidm> ogra_ac, theree were NO kernel changes for OMAP 4?
<ogra_ac> we need an uploader for the sound fix
<ogra_ac> davidm, apart from sound ? no
<ogra_ac> davidm, es2.1 should work out of the box with the xloader changes
<davidm> ogra_ac, lets have a talk later
<ogra_ac> yep
<ogra_ac> lets wait how today at TI turns out
<ogra_ac> we can say for sure by end of day
<rsalveti> robclark is just testing the instabilities issues we saw yesterday
<rsalveti> so soon we should know better if it works or not
<rsalveti> but I'd say that we just need x-loader fixes
<ogra_ac> ++
<NCommander> anything else left for this meeting?
<NCommander> Or can I close it out?
<rsalveti> nops, hopefully we'll be on-line sooner today
<ogra_ac> activity reports !!
<ogra_ac> dont foget them :)
<rsalveti> I did mine ;-)
<ogra_ac> rsalveti rocks
<NCommander> rsalveti: maybe one of you should buy a prepaid broadband solutoin and make a hotspot
<ogra_ac> (and he's the only one here)
<ogra_ac> NCommander, THATS WHAT WE USE
<ogra_ac> OOPS
<rsalveti> yup :-)
<ogra_ac> damned caps
<NCommander> ogra_ac: so when you run out of bandwidth on AT&T they make you use all caps?< i didn't know that!
 * NCommander runs.
<NCommander> anyway, about to close the meeting
<NCommander> going once
 * ogra_ac slaps NCommander with a holiday inn pancake
<NCommander> mmmmm, tasty
<GrueMaster> So ogra_ac, does thisw mean you will do a status report too?
 * ogra_ac slaps GrueMaster  with a holiday inn pancake
 * GrueMaster has bacon and will slap back.
<ogra_ac> greasy meeting !
 * NCommander notes that ogra_ac and GrueMaster should get a room to save all our visions.
<NCommander> anyway
<ogra_ac> NCommander, quick close the meeting
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:45.
 * NCommander resets his alarm to respect the local time
<lool> mpoirier, ogra_ac: Sorry, I didn't follow; what was my decision wiht the kernel team agreement?
<mpoirier> lool, at one point or another omap3 became part of mainstream.
<mpoirier> since this it the time I got hired, I *think* lucide was a topic branch and was wrapped in mainstream for maverick.
<kees> \o
<ogra_ac> lool, having omap built from the main tree is a pain for everyone
<ogra_ac> lool, so i want either a topic branch for natty again or directly switch to linaro
 * ogra_ac takes further discussion to #ubuntu-arm
<lool> I think this is a large topic
<ogra_ac> yep
<mdz> pitti: hi
<cjwatson> hello
<cjwatson> gosh, am I chair
<cjwatson> kees: around?
<cjwatson> ah yes
<mdz> ah, so you are
<mdz> I thought it was pitti, but that's the meeting I missed
<cjwatson> no obvious sign of Keybuk; pinged sabdfl
<pitti> hello
<pitti> cjwatson: sabdfl is on a conference
<pitti> he asked to be skipped on the chair rotation
<cjwatson> aha
<pitti> so he might lag or not be present at all
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<cjwatson> Martin Pitt to ask Martin Pool about bzr self test instructions on installed system
<cjwatson> pitti: ?
<kees> cjwatson: yup
<kees> cjwatson: he asked, but I didn't see a reply
<pitti> cjwatson: done
<pitti> he replied
<cjwatson> Kees to add bzr self test to qa-regression-testing project
<pitti> and even better, they seemed to have made a lot of fixes
<pitti> bzr 2.0.3 should have a fully working test suite
<kees> cjwatson: did that
<pitti> or .2 even
<cjwatson> Martin to add bzr microrelease exception to StableReleasePolicy
<pitti> done
<cjwatson> excellent
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Decide/document ubuntu-archive interaction with ARB packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decide/document ubuntu-archive interaction with ARB packages
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000516.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000516.html
<cjwatson> I don't remember whether we discussed this, or if so what the outcome was
<cjwatson> normally, one function of the archive admins is to at least ensure legality of distribution
<mdz> it's new to me, though I missed the previous meeting
<cjwatson> which is more or less the bare minimum
<cjwatson> this wasn't in the previous meeting; ScottK asked about it on our list, although he apologised that he wouldn't be able to make it to this meeting
<mdz> so the question is whether archive admins will have responsibility for reviewing ARB packages as well as other kinds of packages?
<cjwatson> my memory is that extras.ubuntu.com is actually a mirror of a PPA owned by the ARB
<mdz> is there anyone else in a position to do it?
<cjwatson> which would mean that ubuntu-archive wouldn't actually naturally have access to it, only the ARB
<mdz> the ARB themselves?
<cjwatson> (ScottK may or may not be aware of this)
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/Process is not terribly clear on the matter
<cjwatson> if it's an ARB-owned PPA, then I think the answer is simple, but the process documentation needs to be expanded to mention that
<mdz> sounds straightforward enough
<cjwatson> does anyone know the answer to that authoritatively?
<mdz> presumably there's an existing archive admin checklist which could be reused?
<cjwatson> I knew a couple of months ago ...
<mdz> I don't know about the PPA implementation
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#NEW%20handling has various things we do
<mdz> rickspencer3 is here; I could ask him if he's likely to know
<cjwatson> I think he would
<cjwatson> please do
<mdz> ok, I'll run over
<mdz> cjwatson: he doesn't quite know
<mdz> he redirected to mvo
<mdz> mvo: around?
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to ensure that documentation on nature of extras.ubuntu.com archive makes it into process docs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to ensure that documentation on nature of extras.ubuntu.com archive makes it into process docs
<mdz> cjwatson: maybe we need to chase this offline
<cjwatson> I think it's clear that that's needed no matter what
<cjwatson> OK, I'll take an action and chase it up tomorrow probably
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to chase up archive processing details for extras.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to chase up archive processing details for extras.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Decide on permission changes documented in LP: 174375 - Matt Zimmerman
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decide on permission changes documented in LP: 174375 - Matt Zimmerman
<cjwatson> I already acked that bug both in person and in LP
<mdz> bdmurray sent email to the mailing list and didn't get enough of a response to feel comfortable moving forward
<mdz> I'm +1 on it
<mdz> maybe we can just do a quick vote assuming folks have read it?
<cjwatson> there seems to be slight pushback from LP over the split in responsibilities between spec management and release management, but I think that's the essence of the change we need and so we can't give ground there
<cjwatson> anyone feel they need a few minutes to read over bug 174375?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad Registry "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174375
<kees> I've read it a few times now :)
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000426.html
 * pitti reads to refresh memory
<mdz> is brian's proposal
<mdz> which is also in the bug at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/174375/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad Registry "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged]
<mvo> mdz: yes, I'm around
<mdz> mvo: the question earlier was whether extras.ubuntu.com is a mirror of a PPA owned by the ARB
<mvo> mdz: yes, that is the case
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mvo> yw
<cjwatson> mvo: thank you, looks like that answers the question; I'll follow up with ScottK et al
<mvo> thanks cjwatson
<mdz> pitti: refreshed?
<pitti> mdz: yes
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Brian's proposal for redesign of distribution driver permissions
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Brian's proposal for redesign of distribution driver permissions.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> I think bug targetting needs to be more open than just release-managers; the rest looks fairly okay
<pitti> if we understand "ubuntu drivers" as "team leads, tech leads, etc"
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pitti> under that assumption,
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> pitti: I'm not too concerned about bug targeting, as long as we can control it independently from spec handling
<cjwatson> (FAOD that doesn't affect my vote either way)
<pitti> cjwatson: *nod*
<mdz> yeah, the real change is making it a separate slot
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<mdz> I'll go back to Brian and let him know we acked it, thanks
<pitti> separating blueprints and bugs is the main goal here indeed
<cjwatson> targeting: Brian says "should be fixed as long as it doesn't exclude uploaders" which is OK by me
<pitti> right
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<MootBot> New Topic:  Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<cjwatson> the only thing I see is: is the security team still awaiting confirmation on what to do with chromium, or is that settled?
<cjwatson> (sorry, I appear to be a stateless machine today)
<kees> cjwatson: I think it's understood; we're just waiting for a final proposal from fta
<pitti> I think there is a consensus there
<kees> right
<cjwatson> September's thread from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000501.html is sort of ambiguous as to what to do with the waiting period
<pitti> basically, throw out the upstream updates pretty much blindly
<pitti> but it's not mature enough yet for main
<cjwatson> absolutely agreed
<kees> I think the waiting period needs to be dropped, but at the same time, debian/ changes should be limited
<pitti> kees: well, perhaps dropped -> shortened
 * kees nods
<pitti> it should at least build and get a coarse upgrade/install test
<kees> right, but I call that "testing" :)
<pitti> we can drop the 7 days maturing period, but please let's not drop -proposed and at least quick verification
<kees> yup
<mdz> +2
<jdstrand> is -proposed required?
<jdstrand> as kees said, we require testing
<pitti> uploading the stuff straight to -updates is way too risky IMHO
<jdstrand> it won't ever blindly be uploaded
<pitti> if it buids on amd64 and fails on i386, we create uninstallability, etc.
<jdstrand> eg, I'd run it through qrt
<jdstrand> pitti: sure, we test both i386 and amd64. it is part of the testing procedures
<jdstrand> (that is part of the security team's checklist)
<pitti> sounds good
<jdstrand> I guess what I am getting at is this
<jdstrand> I noticed yesterday that we are showing chromium as a supported browser in the maverick livecd slideshow
<pitti> !?
<jdstrand> yes, I was surprised too...
<pitti> well, we'll keep it up to date either way
<jdstrand> but the security team will just need to treat it like flashplugin-nonfree-- it is universe, but we know a ton of people use it
<cjwatson> that seems realistic, yes
<jdstrand> so we test it ourselves in a similar manner
<jdstrand> ie, with all our checklists, etc, etc
<pitti> i. e. it's not an OMGincident if it suddenly breaks with a particular web page
<jdstrand> correct
<jdstrand> and no USN
<pitti> (chromiums seems to do that a lot, at least on our arm systems)
<jdstrand> like I mentioned, we have a qrt script which should catch any really huge issues
<jdstrand> (js, ssl, redirects, images, flash, java, etc, etc...)
<pitti> jdstrand: wow, so you call it on different web page types and check that it doesn't "Aw, snap!"? nice
<jdstrand> I'm happy to do all the pocket copying if it is required, but if we have the standing exception, and we treat it this way, I'm not sure it is
<jdstrand> pitti: yes
<jdstrand> it is semi-automatic
<pitti> it seems to have worked pretty well with the last handful of updates
<pitti> at least from my POV
<jdstrand> ie, it requires you to be looking at the test as it runs and close the browser, but it leads you through repeatable tests
<jdstrand> yes
<cjwatson> ok, anything further on this?
<pitti> so what's remaining on this?
<pitti> standing SRU exception?
<pitti> it seems to be pretty much without alternative
<kees> yeah; should we vote on it?
<cjwatson> I haven't heard any disagreement
<jdstrand> yes. iirc fta is supposed to write something up formally. he isn't sure why that is required since it has been discussed at length, but I can try to prod him
<pitti> without requiring the 7 days testing period, too
<cjwatson> but why don't we vote on fta's proposal
<cjwatson> when it arrives
<pitti> *nod*
<cjwatson> let's move on for now, then
<jdstrand> (if he hasn't done so already,-- I am not up to date)
<cjwatson> I haven't seen it
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<cjwatson> nothing except what we just discussed
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<cjwatson> I make it kees
<kees> sounds good
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> going once
<cjwatson> going twice
<mdz> nothing from me
<cjwatson> sold to the gentleman with the purple IRC client
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:41.
<mdz> thanks, cjwatson
<pitti> thanks everyone
<kees> thanks!
 * pitti hops to the next meeting
<JFo> o/
<apw> o/
<cking_> \o
 * ogasawara waves
<mpoirier> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag> * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * PATCH    : IGEPv2's 6 patches are being worked into the SRU process (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : A new set of ftrace patches have been released - will integrate in Natty (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : Received patch from TI that enables passing the MAC address to the kernel from u-boot
<lag>    * ON GOING : B637947 Latest sound patches are available from TI - configuration problem still exists
<lag>    * ON GOING : B653002 Currently under investigation - TI suspects a silicone problem
<lag>    * ON GOING : B637947 Still working on the userspace ALSA or PulseAudio configuration
<lag>    * FIXED    : B647890 Fixed the building error
<lag>    * WORKROUND: B633227 Applied patches from Nicolas to set memory 2G:2G - enabled the errata for PL310 lx20 cache controller
<lag>    * MISC     : "fakeroot debian/rules binary-omap" seems to be broken on Natty - investigation is required
<lag>    * MISC     : Some members of the Arm team received ES2.1 boards - so far it's as good as ES2.0
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (4 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (19 across all packages (down 7)) ====
<JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (134 across all packages (down 10)) ====
<JFo>  * 16 linux kernel bugs (up 3)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:124 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> As mentioned last week, we've been queuing patches for Maverick SRU which includes the latest 2.6.35.5, 2.6.35.6, and 2.6.35.7 stable updates.  We are also planning a 0-day kernel upload which has been documented at bug 647071 .  I'm not aware of any kitten killer bugs for Maverick which would cause a last minute upload.  Obviously let us know if we've overlooked/missed anything.
<ogasawara> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647071 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "0-day Maverick Kernel Upload" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647071
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Lucid/Karmic/Jaunty/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Lucid/Karmic/Jaunty/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> ||                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.88  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.79  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LRM       || 2.6.24.18-28.7||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.65  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.65  || 2.6.31-22.66  ||  12 ||  1/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.30 || 2.6.31-214.32 ||  12 ||  1/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.17 || 2.6.32-307.18 ||  12 ||  1/ 4       ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-25.44  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LBM       || 2.6.32-25.24  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-211.27 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.20 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.10 || (in progress) ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.16 || 2.6.32-309.17 ||   0 ||  7/28       ||
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 721 Maverick Bugs (up 92)
<JFo> 1014 Lucid Bugs (up 36)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 364 maverick bugs (up 44)
<JFo>   * 163 lucid bugs (up 3: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 64 lucid bugs (up 9)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 177 lucid bugs (up 7)
<JFo>   * 37 karmic bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 17 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 6 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The Bug Day is today, so I don't have much information other than that. The next Bug Day will be Tuesday 19 October.
<JFo> The focus will be on bugs with patches. We will be working to identify those bugs that have actual, relevant patches.
<JFo> More details to follow on the wiki.
<JFo> We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday.
<JFo> Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving. There are several lists that are not getting a look.
<JFo> Please also take ownership of your bugs as you work them so we can get them fixed or otherwise off the list. There are a number in need of love.
<JFo> There are several subsystems owned by all that need to be reviewed for inclusion in our top 50 list.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> There has been an increase in people interested in working on triaging bugs. There are a number of folks working today on the Bug Day
<JFo> that have helped us triage bugs in the past, but have not been active on BugDays. Marjo blogged my Bug Day e-mail and I blogged about it
<JFo> on the qa.ubuntu.com blog. I'll do that for each bug day we have going forward and will keep track of the growth in interest as a result.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> #
<bjf> # Note: This will be the last meeting of the Maverick development cycle. The next
<bjf> #       meeting will be November 8th.
<bjf> #
<JFo> yay, Happy Last Meeting of the Cycle!
<JFo> :)
<apw> yay
<cking_> phew
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:07.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<cking_> bjf, thanks
<smb> bjf, ta
<JFo> 7 minutes of meeting goodness
<JFo> we are darn efficient
<cking_> dear sir, is this a record?
<bjf> cking_, i think so
<JFo> it is the fastest one I have been in
<cking_> blink and it's over
<JFo> heh
<bjf> now all the londoners can go to the pub and dinner
<JFo> wooo!
<cking_> slackers
<JFo> wait... :-(
 * JFo can only go to lunch
<bjf> JFo, just realizes he's not in london
<JFo> :-(
<manjo> man what just happened  ?
 * JFo cries
<bjf> manjo, did you blink and it was over?
<JFo> heh
<manjo> almost
<manjo> ok. see you later folks
 * manjo returns to his pile of netbooks
<xfaf> yo
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<mathiaz> o/
<JamesPage> o/
<mjeanson> hi
<jiboumans> o/
<ttx> \o
<kirkland> howdy all
<kirkland> i think i'm chairing today, right?
<ttx> kirkland: if you can, yes
<jiboumans> kirkland: 3rd time's a charm ;)
<kirkland> wooho
<kirkland> o
<kirkland> #startmeeting
<Daviey> o/
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is kirkland.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<kirkland> hmm, i don't see any outstanding actions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<kirkland> in which case, if there are none, I suppose we'll just move on
 * kirkland checks log
<kirkland> ah, here are a couple
<kirkland> --> SpamapS to chase drizzle in maverick decide between "broken" and "removed" with slight possibility of "beta"
<kirkland> SpamapS: ?
<SpamapS> sorry
<SpamapS> drizzle is out of maverick
<kirkland> SpamapS: carry over to next week?
<SpamapS> removed earlier this week
<kirkland> SpamapS: alrighty, done?
<SpamapS> In discussing the beta period with their developers, its better this way. :)
<SpamapS> kirkland: yes done
<kirkland> thanks
<kirkland> --> jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<kirkland> jiboumans: ?
<jiboumans> kirkland: not done </shame>
<kirkland> jiboumans: carry over to next week?
<smoser> o/
<jiboumans> kirkland: i'll do so today
<kirkland> jiboumans: k
<kirkland> [ACTION] jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jiboumans to send an email to ubuntu-server@ and/or blog post for call for ideas
<kirkland> --> mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<kirkland> mathiaz: ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: carry over
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll do it later today
<mathiaz> (just to copy jiboumans )
<kirkland> mathiaz: alrighty
<kirkland> [ACTION] (carryover) (carryover) mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (carryover) (carryover) mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
 * kirkland worries about a buffer overflow on that one :-)
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Maverick development - jiboumans
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development - jiboumans
<jiboumans> not much to say right now; we're winding down
<zul> yay!
<kirkland> release status -- ttx
<jiboumans> ttx is at the release spring in london while i'm detained in the US
<jiboumans> all his :)
<ttx> Mostly in good shape, nothing critical in the daily bug triage
<ttx> a couple of FTBFS... one in likewise-open I fixed on Monday, the other is axis2c
<ttx> We'll probably postpone that one since it's such a PITA to get right
 * Daviey screams
<ttx> Daviey: do you agree ?
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, i think i've looked at that one, if its the one i'm thinking of :-/
<ttx> kirkland: yes, THAT one.
<Daviey> ttx, yes - doko also inestigating
<kirkland> ttx: ugh
<Daviey> investigating*
<ttx> The other is Bug 653154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653154 in dovecot (Ubuntu Maverick) "package mail-stack-delivery (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653154
<ttx> but is about to be debunked as "not-reproduced"
<ttx> Daviey: right ?
<Daviey> yah
<Daviey> will do shortly
<ttx> so we don't have any fix queued for release now.
<ttx> (as of now)
<ttx> next topic :)
<Daviey> \o/
<kirkland> ttx: thanks
<kirkland> [TOPIC] The road to 10.10.10 release (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  The road to 10.10.10 release (ttx)
<SpamapS> Actualy I think  bug 653154 might have a duplicate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653154 in dovecot (Ubuntu Maverick) "package mail-stack-delivery (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653154
<kirkland> ttx: looking forward?
<ttx> ISOs should hit tomorrow.
<ttx> so it will be ISO testing season again
 * hggdh is happy
<ttx> and hopefully we'll be set by Friday
<smoser> ttx, are there bugs not included yet that are targetted ?
<smoser> (probably I should know the link to such things, but shame on me)
<ttx> smoser: the only other bug in the list that we might consider is Bug 617496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617496 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "'stop eucalyptus' should also stop all -publication services" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617496
<ttx> the url is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<ttx> please make sure to raise any bug you stumble upon in daily triage
<kirkland> ttx: okay, so every should prime their ISO cache today using TestDrive, and just incrementally sync the diff tomorrow, right?  ;-)
<ttx> that would critically affect maverick
<SpamapS> ttx: bug 653362 Is I think the duplicate
<ttx> kirkland: yes :) unfortunately my laptop is utterly slow, I need to switch to onf of those SSDs
<kirkland> ttx: thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653362 in dovecot (Ubuntu) "package mail-stack-delivery 1:1.2.12-1ubuntu7 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653362
<inkvizitor68sl> hmmm... i hope there i will get answer...) what i have to do to be able to receive new CDs (better - in enough amount to share it).
<ttx> so daviey will bring a couple spare laptops so that we do ISO testing in London
<kirkland> noted, ttx is looking for an SSD donation
<SpamapS> ttx: and bug 653152
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653152 in dovecot (Ubuntu) "package mail-stack-delivery 1:1.2.12-1ubuntu7 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 (dup-of: 653362)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653152
<ttx> Daviey: looks like it's a bit reproductible after all.
<mathiaz> Daviey: are you heading to the release sprint as well?
<SpamapS> ttx: They may not have showed up on the radar because I marked it as Medium
<ttx> SpamapS: volunteering to clear it out before we rool ISOs tomorrow ?
<Daviey> ttx: oh joy
<kirkland> ttx: alrighty -- anything else 10.10.10 worthy?
<Daviey> mathiaz: some of it.
<ttx> we need someone in US TZ to take care of it
<ttx> ideally before we spin ISOs :)
<SpamapS> ttx: I'm not entirely familiar with dovecot, but I'm happy to attack it if nobody else wants it. :)
<Daviey> rocking!
<ttx> mathiaz: ^or you :)
<SpamapS> Will need somebody to upload.
<kirkland> SpamapS: i can sponsor
<SpamapS> Don't we have some people in .jp ?
<kirkland> SpamapS: ASAP, though
<ttx> SpamapS: mathiaz works on JP tz
<SpamapS> kirkland: yeah I'll get on it right away
<kirkland> alright, let's take any specific bug discussion to #ubuntu-server
<Daviey> SpamapS: i had a Chinese the other day, if that helps?
<kirkland> and keep focused here
<kirkland> ttx: anything more from you on this topic?
<ttx> kirkland: no. Questions ?
<ttx> smoser: ideally we would prepublish cloud images early
<kirkland> ttx: is this going to be the best Ubuntu Server Release ever?
<ttx> smoser: so that you don't have to be on call on Sunday :)
<smoser> ttx, well, yes, and ideally with the correct labels
<smoser> :)
<ttx> kirkland: I hope it will be the quietest.
<kirkland> ttx: awesome
<smoser> i'll get that all taken care of and send cjwatson instructions on what to do. including a phone number.
<kirkland> moving along ....
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Natty preparation (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty preparation (jib)
<ttx> and that Cloud10/42 will help show that to the worls
<ttx> d
<jiboumans> Slowly gearing up for Natty. Like last week, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool is live and we already have quite a few ideas. If you haven't contributed yours yet, please do so this week. On Friday, we'll be taking a snapshot of this and start making a rudimentary UDS planning.
<cjwatson> smoser: I will not be working on Sunday, so ...
<jiboumans> as always if you'll be at UDS and already have some topics you'll know you'll work on, feel free to file the blueprints already
<cjwatson> smoser: contact skaet
<smoser> ooh... then we need a RT for skaet to have access to nectarine
<jiboumans> after release, the server team will spend some serious time on setting up our UDS plans & sessions
<kirkland> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool
<jiboumans> that's all there's to say right nwo i think -- any questions?
<smoser> [ACTION]: smoser get RT open for skaet to have access to nectarine for publishing UEC images
<smoser> [ACTION]: smoser to get skaet info on how to publish EC2 images
<kirkland> jiboumans: might we devote some time in next week's meeting to such open ideas/brainstorming?
<jiboumans> absolutely
<zul> heh some people already started
<jiboumans> right now it's a braindump area: add whatever comes up
<kirkland> cool
<ttx> In the weeks following release, please also remember to keep up the triaging effort, in case our first maverick users hit a major issue, we need to be ready to fix it
<jiboumans> kirkland: i've also just sent out the call for ideas/blueprints so you can mark that done
<kirkland> ttx: agreed
<kirkland> jiboumans: noted
<kirkland> jiboumans: anything else on this topic?
<jiboumans> not from me
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> yeah
<hggdh> we sent our proposal for regression-* tags to -devel. If no complains, we will be implementing it soon (after 10.10.10)
<kirkland> hggdh: cool, what does that mean?
<hggdh> we will be dropping regression-potential
<hggdh> and using regression-release even for a development release
<kirkland> ah
<kirkland> understood
<hggdh> -potential does not seem to gain us much (if at all), apart from more work
<hggdh> and... I will start on euca testing for release as soon as the ISO is published
<kirkland> hggdh: okay, anything else?
<kirkland> any questions for QA?
<Daviey> \o/
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<kirkland> jjohansen is not feeling well today
<kirkland> and it appears that jj-afk is away
<smoser> so lets move on there.
<kirkland> if there are any kernel related issues, please note them now ...
<kirkland> and we'll take them up offline ....
<kirkland> going once
<kirkland> going twice
<kirkland> gone.
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<kirkland> sommer doesn't appear to be around either ....
<kirkland> going once
<Daviey> :(
<kirkland> going twice
<kirkland> gone.
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<kirkland> kim0 doesn't appear to around ...
 * kirkland misses his friends
 * ttx hugs hggdh for being around :)
<kirkland> anything to mention, Community related?
 * hggdh blushes
<hggdh> I have been chatting with kim0
<kirkland> going once
<smoser> hggdh, are you implying that he's around, just hiding from us.  thanks.
<hggdh> about community involvement. We intend to get together and discuss this on UDS
<kirkland> hggdh: yes, good
<hggdh> smoser: actually it was last week :-)
<kirkland> anyone planning a release party?
<kirkland> (that's community related...)
<zul> ill be having turkey that day
<kirkland> or planning to attend a release party?
<SpamapS> There's a release party in Hollywood that I'll be attending on Monday evening
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<SpamapS> nobody wants to go on Sunday ;)
<kirkland> SpamapS: oh?  cool ... I'll be in SoCal next week, I think
<SpamapS> http://www.borderstylo.com/posts/205-company-culture-at-border-stylo
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.borderstylo.com/posts/205-company-culture-at-border-stylo
<SpamapS> At their offices
<kirkland> [ACTION] Everyone to celebrate the 10.10.10 release in their own unique ways
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Everyone to celebrate the 10.10.10 release in their own unique ways
<SpamapS> :)
<ttx> I've been discussing server subcommunities at Open World Forum
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<kirkland> anything else?
<ttx> i.e. groups specializing in the maintenance of subsystems like "directory" or "windows integration"
<smoser> i had an item on open discussion agenda.
<RoAkSoAx> or cluster :)
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: yes ! though this one is alive and kicking already
<smoser> SRU 649591 (mountall spins eating cpu when 'nobootwait' option exists in fstab followed by a comma)
<smoser> bug
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: we still need UEC HA Clustering though
<smoser> bug 649591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649591 in mountall (Ubuntu Lucid) "mountall spins eating cpu when 'nobootwait' option exists in fstab followed by a comma" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649591
<SpamapS> I'd really like to see cluster stack get some attention. Building a redundant database server or load balancer on ubuntu should be easy.
<ttx> I've seen widespread interest in that, so I hope we'll pull that off
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: that's easy... the hard part will be the itnegration with UEC xD
<ttx> (been talking to huats and RevolutionLinux guys)
<mathiaz> ttx: with whom have you been discussin the topics at openworld?
<ttx> mathiaz: I read your mind and answer your question before it's asked.
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: mjeanson from revolutionlinux is interested in the cluster since they work in Ubuntu
<smoser> ok.. my bug. I need bug 649591 back to lucid.  I've got a proposed pull, but need sponsoring.  can i get someone to please sponsor for me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649591 in mountall (Ubuntu Lucid) "mountall spins eating cpu when 'nobootwait' option exists in fstab followed by a comma" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649591
<ttx> smoser: yes you can.
<ttx> smoser: maybe not me, but you should get someone
<smoser> thats why i'm asking.
 * ttx needs to pack tonight
<smoser> mathiaz, zul, kirkland, one of you, please ?
<zul> sponsoring mountall makes me nervous
<kirkland> smoser: i don't mind sponsoring
<RoAkSoAx> btw... after this UDS the ubuntu-server package set will be up and running right?
<smoser> great.  its not my patch, its cjwatson. so you don't even really have to trust me.
<kirkland> smoser: poke me in another channel shortly and let's walk through it
<kirkland> smoser: hmm, so why didn't cjwatson upload it?
<smoser> he uploaded to maverick.
<ttx> I'd say, he is a bit busy with maverick release.
<smoser> i am just pushing for lucid (and 'now' rather than later)
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: you mean the ubuntu-server package set?
<kirkland> smoser: ah, okay
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: yes
<kirkland> smoser: yeah, grab me in #ubuntu-server after the meeting
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i'm not sure who owns that to-do....
<kirkland> ttx: do you know?
<ttx> kirkland: that would be mathiaz
<ttx> it's part of the deffered items in mavercik-server-seed-review
<ttx> deferred, even
<kirkland> mathiaz: eta on ubuntu-server package set?
<mathiaz> after UDS
<kirkland> ttx: mathiaz: cool
<RoAkSoAx> cool
<kirkland> alright, i think that's about it ...
<mathiaz> I'll probably schedule a session at UDS to figure out how to review the best
<kirkland> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<kirkland> Tuesday 2010-10-12 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<kirkland> see you soon!
<mathiaz> it's a 350+ package list
<kirkland> mathiaz: yeah, review at UDS is a good idea
<kirkland> adios, all
<kirkland> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:40.
<Daviey> o/
<ttx> \o
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<cjwatson> kirkland: yeah, that mountall patch should be good for lucid too, just insufficient round tuits
<kirkland> cjwatson: ack
<kirkland> cjwatson: thanks for following up
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-06
<mvo> hello
<barry> hi
<Edward_Elric> .
<UndiFineD> o/
<_oo__anand__oo_> .
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I'll idle and log to read later, but I'm not really here
<HedgeMage> I have to get LF from school soon.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok :)
<highvoltage> anyone else present and ready for action?
 * highvoltage stares at mgariepy 
<highvoltage> (IRL and on IRC)
<mgariepy> I'm here
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: if these meetings happened a different time of day, I'd attend most of them...they just happen to hit the pick-up-from-school time.
<mhall119> I'm here
<highvoltage> I started working on the release announcement, it's available for preview here: http://edubuntu.org/news/10.10-release
<highvoltage> still very draft
<mhall119> on time for once
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, you get to pick the next meeting time, mail/jabber/irc me
<highvoltage> hey mhall119
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: coolness!  Will do.
<HedgeMage> ttyl
 * HedgeMage idles
<highvoltage> hmm, slow wiki is sloooooooow
<mhall119> "installable directly from the installer, allowing a much more intuitive installation" sounds funny to me, too many uses of "install"
<highvoltage> I started working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/WorkForGrabs
<mhall119> but I'm not sure how else to phrase it
<highvoltage> it's not as nice as the KDE one yet. at UDS we can expand it and probably assign people to tasks too
<highvoltage> mhall119: noted! I'll put some thought into it (suggestions still welcome)
<mhall119> also, a description of what Gnome Nanny is would be good
<highvoltage> I'm extremely tempted to make it slightly more flashy and add pictures and screenshots, but it will mostly be distributed in text form anyway
<mhall119> you can just add a link to screenshots
<pleia2> highvoltage: nice!
<highvoltage> yep, I guess
<highvoltage> besides release announcement / release notes, I'm just going to work on testing the final image that's going to be built today
<highvoltage> if all goes well that will be our release that would get released on Sunday
<highvoltage> anyone is welcome to do that though :)
 * mhall119 needs to zsync the new dvd image
<highvoltage> I gave dinda blog access on the site
<highvoltage> mhall119, mgariepy: if you'd like access too just poke me in pvt some time and I'll create you an account
<highvoltage> will be nice to have people write blog entries on the site that's just not me and stefanlsd :)
<highvoltage> oops, that was aimed at stgraber (sorry stefanlsd)
<mhall119> highvoltage: I might do that after UDS, so I can blog about integrating Qimo
<highvoltage> mhall119: that would be really nice
<mhall119> and any other edubuntu work I will (hopefully) be doing this cycle
 * stgraber waves
 * mhall119 plans to apply for Edubuntu membership this cycle
<highvoltage> mhall119: you're already an Ubuntu member aren't you?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> just not Edubuntu
<mhall119> cause I've done nothing much for it yet
<mhall119> but that's all gonna (hopefully) change this cycle
<highvoltage> ok, previously ubuntu members got edubuntu membership for free, I can't remember if that changed with the new EC charter
<highvoltage> (well, if they asked for it)
<mhall119> I didn't ask for it
<highvoltage> well, you're stable and have been present in the community a long time now, and you've worked on edu-related packages in Ubuntu, so perhaps it's about time you ask for it :)
<mhall119> I will, in due time
<highvoltage> anything else we should cover in this meeting?
<highvoltage> we're almost at that stage where we just have to hold our breath until release :)
<mhall119> I sent comments back to dinda on her marketing stuff
<mhall119> I'm not sure when she had to have those done
<mhall119> still don't know if she'll be at UDS or not
<highvoltage> she'll be at half of it, I just can't remember if it was the first half or second half
<mhall119> ok, cool
 * highvoltage wonders where dinda is today, she's usually quite vocal
<highvoltage> well, I'm off to go on with work again, if anyone needs anything, feel free to poke me :)
<mhall119> meeting over already?
<highvoltage> mhall119: unless you have anything else? :)
<mhall119> nope, just looking forward to seeing everyone at UDS
<highvoltage> yes, that will be great!
<ElWuilMeR> is mandatory to have the wiki in English to ask for membership?
<mhall119> ElWuilMeR: it helps if your board doesn't all speak your native language
<highvoltage> ElWuilMeR: good question, we won't count it against you if it's not, but if no one is available to translate if for us or if we can't make sense out of it with google translate as a last resort, then it will be harder to evaluate your application
<ElWuilMeR> mhall119: highvoltage thanks I will have three months before applying for membership and pass it to English then wiki
<barry> hi folks.  udd meeting in 1m
<poolie> hi there barry
<barry> hi poolie
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * ajmitch will try & be around
<barry> ajmitch: cool
<barry> james_w: hi
<barry> y'know i don't know if rockstar plans to be around for these.  thunper was last time
<barry> slangasek: hi
 * slangasek waves
<poolie> thumper is on holiday this week
<poolie> agenda?
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20100106
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20100106
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20100106
<barry> i figured we'd review action items first
<james_w> howdy
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<james_w> always a good idea
<barry>    * '''poolie to confirm charline to do user studies at UDS-N'''
<barry>  
<flacoste> hi folks
<poolie> hi flacoste
<barry> flacoste: hi!
<poolie> charline hasn't replied to my pings; i asked matthew to contact her but i still haven't heard back
<poolie> i'll escalate to someone else
<poolie> maybe she's been away
<flacoste> no she was there last week
<flacoste> have you sent her an email?
<poolie> yes, a couple
<poolie> mail pings, i meant, not irc
<flacoste> she's kind on the opposite end of the world to you
<flacoste> ok
<flacoste> i'll try to grab her tomorrow
<barry> flacoste, poolie thanks
<poolie> thanks, please just ask her to answer them or to call me
<barry>    * '''poolie to organize a foyer poster'''
<poolie> related note, the survey is now ready to launch
<poolie> i'll ask mrevell to turn it into production
<barry> poolie: very cool.  it will be nice to get some data before uds
<poolie> not done yet; still a good idea; will do it before we go
<poolie> flacoste: can you help me get a small bit of attention from design people?
<barry> np.  we can keep both on the list for next time
<barry> * '''barry to register udd sessions at uds''' (after finding the right theme/track)
<barry>    * '''barry to register general bzr/lp session in "app devs" theme'''
<flacoste> poolie: for charline or something else?
<flacoste> hmm, the foyer poster
<flacoste> forget it
<flacoste> you are on your own there :-)
<poolie> ok :)
<flacoste> no way they can do something about this before UDS
<barry> :D
<poolie> probably would be too long, yeah
<poolie> it'll be nerdy but it'll be there
<barry> poster board + fat sharpie :)
<barry> i coordinated both with robbiew who actually scheduled the blueprints for all three session we talked about last time
<barry> so i think we're good to go for uds sessions
<james_w> thanks
<barry>    * '''barry to make ajmitch be udd stakeholder representing REVU'''
<barry>  
<barry> done
<ajmitch> not much to do with that one :)
<barry>    * '''poolie to get a better graph of package import failures'''
<barry> ajmitch: no, but thanks for coming by today!
<poolie> i see james did some of that for me
<barry> saw that too, thanks james_w
<james_w> jml fixed the internal graph
<james_w> and I produced some external ones
<james_w> already showing some interesting results :-)
<poolie> hottest100 is not yet graphed; i tried that but it got too many errors connecting to lp
<james_w> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/index.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/index.html
<james_w> see at the bottom for the graphs
<barry> james_w: what's the spike?
<poolie> lp outage, i think :)
<james_w> LP refusing to talk to us for a while
<poolie> to judge from the errors i saw yesterday
<barry> ;)
<james_w> I'd love it if someone could code a higher level of backoff too
<poolie> i think adding more graphs is not a priority atm
<poolie> i'd rather force that existing graph down to 0 and then worry about whether there are things its not measuring
<poolie> any objections?
<barry> agreed.  i think we can mark this one "done" for now
<james_w> poolie, which graph in particular, or all of the ones we have now?
<poolie> specifically "number of packages that failed to import"
<poolie> it would be a bit nice to graph "hottest100" and i may yet do it, but i don't know if i'll do it before UDD
<poolie> s//UDS-N
<james_w> ok
<barry>    * '''barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c'''
<barry> not done. will carry over
<barry>    * '''barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide'''
<barry> not done.  i'll probably wait and chat with daniel f2f @ uds
<barry>    * '''barry/poolie to write up job announcements; barry posts to python job board, james_w/slangasek posts to debian-jobs, ubuntu-devel'''
<james_w> not done
<poolie> perhaps we should have a small udd docs session at uds? maybe just informally
<barry> i have a template almost ready for review for the python jobs board.  i'll send around a pastebin when i think it's ready
<poolie> ok
<slangasek> I haven't been given anything to post, so haven't posted :)
<poolie> i'm planning to do some interviews before UDS
<barry> poolie: good idea
<poolie> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_BSE
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_BSE
<barry> the python jobs board has a very specific template, which is what i'm fitting the above into
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> so doing it this week or at least next week would be really good
<poolie> please also personally invite anyone you know with relevant skills that you'd like to work with
<barry> poolie: i'll have something to review by tonight or tomorrow.  debian-jobs and ubuntu-devel might need a different format
<poolie> related question, would anyone like to interview shortlisted candidates?
<poolie> thanks very much barry, i really appreciate circulating it to there
<slangasek> I don't think debian-jobs has any particular formatting requirements, fwiw
<barry> poolie: i'm happy to, though i probably can't grill them too much on bzr internals
<james_w> poolie, I would
<james_w> though maybe would should avoid too many interviews :-)
<poolie> i think about 2-3 would be ok
<barry> james_w: maybe just make them fix a bug using udd as the first gauntlet
<poolie> so me plus one of you plus statik
<poolie> and write a short report on it :)
<james_w> heh
<barry> :)
<barry> poolie: sounds good
<barry> btw, i did post it on my fb wall for all the good it did ;)
<barry> anyway...
<barry>    * '''james_w to merge bzr-debuntu to bzr-builddeb'''
<barry> well, not done, but sort of morphed
<barry> bug 609186 is tracking this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609186 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Really easy branching of Ubuntu packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609186
<barry> we're going to get the uncontroversial ones into bzr 2.3 and then worry about the rest
<barry> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~barry/bzr/609186-shortcuts/+merge/37787
<barry> that's it for the action items.  does anyone have comments to add on any of the above before we move on?
<james_w> on the poster idea from last time
<james_w> I have been thinking for a while that one of the issues people have with using bzr-builddeb is getting the mental model of what is going on right
<james_w> and I think I have some pictures that will help with this
<james_w> I started putting together an ebook that I showed barry, and he suggested perhaps getting it printed to hand out at UDS
<james_w> I thought that this was a great idea, but there are a couple of problems with it
<james_w> 1) that ebook is now on my barely-alive harddrive, so it may be lost
<james_w> 2) printing in that form would be very expensive
<barry> :(
<james_w> so, would something simpler be good to have
<james_w> say a 2-fold booklet or similar?
<poolie> perhaps
<james_w> we can still distribute a full thing electronically of course
<barry> james_w: definitely.  think we can get something useful on a single 8.5x11 (front & back)?  we could print that at any kinkos to pass out
<poolie> may also be more likely to be read in the short-attention-span environment of uds
<poolie> perhaps we could also put that content on the poster, along with a description of what we're doing and who to talk to
<james_w> barry, I haven't figured out how to present the information in that format yet, but I don't think it would be impossible to get something
<barry> be sure to include the url to the top udd wiki page
<james_w> I'm not sure a poster is the right format for what I was working on, as I'm not sure many people would digest it from a poster
<james_w> but if we can get something that works as a poster that would be great
<james_w> I wish I had the start of the content to show you all now, I'll try and rescue it and send it around
<barry> james_w: i was thinking about something we could (at least) hand out at the educating-users session
<poolie> james_w: next time, duplicity backups to s3 :)
<poolie> from cron :)
<james_w> :-)
<barry> james_w: i forget - did you email it to me?
<james_w> barry, no, I don't think so
<james_w> and I don't think I sent you the source either?
<barry> ah.  oh well
<barry> no, pretty sure you didn't
<james_w> ah, as it was IRC it is probably on the web somewhere
<barry> riigght
<james_w> yes http://people.canonical.com/~jamesw/guide.pdf
<barry> so for action item wrap up: poolie will continue with poster and james will send around his ebook, and (?) get it into a format for passing out at uds
<poolie> good
<barry> cool, moving on...
<poolie> and the rest of you will circulate/recommend the job ad
<barry> poolie: +1
<barry> [TOPIC] MVO feedback
<MootBot> New Topic:  MVO feedback
<barry> so, i had a brief mumble chat w/mvo today and we talked about udd a bit.  he had some interesting feedback that i'd like to share.  i'll paste the points here and then we can discuss...
<barry>    * Fast and easy for simple case (version bump only)
<barry>    * upstream tarball is all you need (no source branch; debian/ only)
<barry>    * `dch -i` + build and that's it
<barry>    * people who are only packagers don't need full source
<barry> (done)
<barry> so mvo was most concerned with packages who aren't developing the code, or the many people who just need to do a version bump.
<james_w> version bump with no changes?
<barry> his concern was that it needs to be at least as fast to do that with udd as it is now
<barry> james_w: yep
<poolie> that's a good test
<james_w> build-from-branch!
<barry> or, just grab debian version and bump
<james_w> if we have build-from-branch then we can make it super-cheap
<slangasek> yes, it does need to be fast - I think that ties in with my concerns about having easy-to-configure mirrors of bzr branches
<james_w> then you don't even need to get the branch even, just commit remotely and request a build
<poolie> it'd be good to make sure they're documented, then see how simple the documentation looks and how long it takes to execute
<barry> james_w: can you elaborate?  mvo's main concern was downloading the source branch when a lot of folks (currently) only use debian/
<james_w> or we make it a non-issue by implementing rebuild support in soyuz :-)
 * barry looks to flacoste 
<james_w> barry, you don't /need/ the data locally to do that, Launchpad is the source and target, and so if the pieces are there we can just ask Launchpad to do the operation
<james_w> that will be faster than the current approach of apt-get source + dput
<barry> james_w: so no need to branch locally to dch -i?
<flacoste> i don't understand how rebuild helps here?
<slangasek> barry: I do disagree strongly with mvo's conclusion that packagers only need debian/; that guarantees that if that package ever needs patching to the upstream sources, you end up with a two-step merge (VCS merge, followed by a quilt merge).  debian/-only VCS branches drive me crazy!
<james_w> barry, we can remove that need, as bazaar's vcs means that you can commit remotely if you want
<james_w> barry, so we can simulate dch -i + commit remotely, and then request a build
<james_w> or, as I said, rebuild support makes it all a non-issue really, as you just ask soyuz to rebuild without a source change, so you don't need apt-get source, dput or bzr
<slangasek> james_w: "without a source change"?
<james_w> binNMU
<barry> i think i see.  this is definitely a workflow not covered in the current wiki docs
<flacoste> isn't a version upgrade a source code change?
<slangasek> my understanding is that "version bump only" refers to "upstream version bump only"... where you don't care about the old upstream source because you're forklift replacing it for the upload you're preparing
<james_w> <james_w> version bump with no changes?
<james_w> <barry> james_w: yep
<poolie> so the top level issue is, they want to just pull in a new upstream version, and that should be as fast and simple as possible? or no?
<james_w> I read that as "no-change rebuild", not "new upstream version"
<flacoste> right, that's the confusion
<flacoste> barry which one is it?
<barry> well, now i'm not 100% sure what mvo was getting at.  he kind of mentioned both scenarios
<flacoste> lol
<james_w> because "dch -i + build" isn't all you need for a new upstream version
<slangasek> james_w: it is for /many/ packages
<james_w> no, because dch -i gives you the same upstream version number as you had before :-)
<slangasek> oh, I interpreted that as pseudocode, sorry :)
<poolie> why would they want a no-change rebuild? to rebuild on new dependencies?
<james_w> poolie, yes
<flacoste> for the rebuild use-case, i agree that the easiest thing is to implement it in LP directly
<james_w> there are many reasons why it can happen, but there are several hundred occurences per-cycle
<barry> i'm sure mvo mentioned the "new upstream version" scenario
<james_w> "new upstream version" is harder, I agree, and we should ensure that it is optimised too
<flacoste> especially, if he was referring to the debian/ branch packaging
<poolie> that seems fairly obviously like the first thing someone might want to do in udd
<barry> yes, he specifically mentioned debian/-only branches
<james_w> where there are no patches, I would argue that we are /almost/ as efficient as the old way, discounting the overhead of bzr branch/push
<james_w> we just need someone to implement watch-file support in merge-upstream
<barry> james_w: that's something i'd like to attempt
<james_w> barry, great, I'm happy to help
<barry> thanks!
<poolie> so this should live in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/NewUpstreamVersion
<james_w> where there are patches, then I think both methods are terrible, but I would think that the old method is currently better there
<poolie> and then you would do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/UploadingAPackage ?
<james_w> because it's less likely to get you really stuck
<james_w> poolie, yes
<barry> poolie: i'm not sure i have a good enough sense of what to add there for this scenario
<poolie> ok, so what are we going to do on this topic, beyond this meeting?
<poolie> just reaffirm that that story is important?
<poolie> perhaps james and/or myself should go over those pages with mvo and see where the problems are?
<barry> we should make sure mvo comes to the user feedback session at uds so we can mine this topic more
<james_w> barry, +1
<barry> poolie: yes, that would be great, but i think f2f @ uds will be the most productive
<james_w> to me this reaffirms the importance of having a good patch handling story, and speed of bzr+LP
<barry> james_w: big +1 to both of those
<poolie> right
<barry> so i'll contact mvo and invite him to the session.  i'm sure he'll be happy to join us
<barry> anything else on this topic?
<poolie> perhaps we can have footnote-like links to bugs from the udd doc pages, pointing to ways they could be better
<poolie> i think that's it for me
<barry> good idea.  i have a place for those i think
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<barry> anybody have anything not on the agenda?
<barry> going once...
<james_w> I think we are missing the one thing that we want to fix first
<poolie> that'd be a good recurring item to add
<poolie> any nominations for most-wanted bug?
<barry> agreed.  i'll add that to the ongoing agenda
<barry> watch file support?
<james_w> +1, it's fairly small, easy and well-contained, and will have a big usability win
<barry> (though i don't see a bug open on that yet)
<barry> cool.  i'll open a bug and see if i can put together a branch
<james_w> then we can move on to something larger next meeting :-)
<barry> [ACTION] barry to open bug for watch file support
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to open bug for watch file support
<james_w> bug 295274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295274 in bzr-builddeb "merge-upstream shouldn't require --version when debian/watch is present" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295274
<barry> ah, it's on bzr-builddeb not udd
<james_w> feel free to add a udd task
<barry> +1
<barry> so, if there's nothing else.  meet again in 2 weeks?  (that'll be right before uds so we can do last minute planning)
<poolie> wfm
<slangasek> sure
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:00.
<barry> thanks everyone.  see you in 2 weeks
<slangasek> thanks :)
<poolie> oh, btw, i'll be away the week after uds, which would be the 2nd meeting from now
<poolie> i'll ask someone else from bzr to come to this in my place
<barry> poolie: k.  flacoste i do think we need to sort out who will be the launchpad stakeholder.  if not rockstar, then thumper?  if not him, then you?
 * barry -> dinner
<flacoste> barry: i'll talk to thumper
<barry> flacoste: thanks
<barry> just let me know
<james_w> thanks everyone
<flacoste> see you around
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-07
 * freeflying 
<wcwc33> ?
<wcwc33> help~~~~
<wcwc33> Some people do
<elky> wcwc33, try #ubuntu, this channel is for teams to have meetings with agendas
<wcwc33> å¦
<genupulas> is there any one?
<genupulas> i have not seen the calender
<genupulas> when the meeting will start'
<genupulas> can anyone reply plz
<IAmNotThatGuy> genupulas: you can find the meeting schedule from the topic
<genupulas> i hear that in this channel we have that
<IAmNotThatGuy> genupulas: what team are you looking for?
<IAmNotThatGuy> Ubuntu translation?
<genupulas> i just wanna participate just thats it
<IAmNotThatGuy> genupulas: Meetings are for registered teams and please contact the team you are currently working with.
<genupulas> presently i have not joined in any team
<genupulas> can you explain me how can i be a part please
<IAmNotThatGuy> genupulas: Look at your private message
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-08
<Edward_Elric>  please helpme to vote
<Edward_Elric> http://148.245.35.4/CursoPhp/index.php
<Edward_Elric>  :D
<Edward_Elric>  is about ubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-09
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> Who is here for the IRCC meeting?
<Seeker`> o/
<jussi> o/
<topyli> o/
<tsimpson> o/
<jussi> we have quorum!
<rww_> o/ (kinda)
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<nhandler> [TOPIC] -offtopic 'support' discussion policy
<MootBot> New Topic:  -offtopic 'support' discussion policy
<nhandler> Pici: You around?
<Seeker`> -20:01:55- [freenode] ~s~  idle     : 0 days 18 hours 42 mins 48 secs signon: Sun Oct  3 22:00:19 2010
<nhandler> Yeah, I just noticed that Seeker`
<nhandler> Does anyone know enough about what he wanted to talk about for us to discuss this?
<nhandler> If not, we can hold off on this until the next meeting
<jussi> not I
<jussi> lets do that.
<topyli> or reopen later in this one if he appears late
<nhandler> [AGREED] Defer discussion about -offtopic 'support' discussion policy until next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Defer discussion about -offtopic 'support' discussion policy until next meeting
<nhandler> [TOPIC] All core channel ops should have +o in -ops
<MootBot> New Topic:  All core channel ops should have +o in -ops
<nhandler> Seeker`: Care to introduce this topic?
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> basically, as it stands, the people that have +o in -ops is pretty arbitrary
<Seeker`> there isn't a good coverage of all timezones at present, I've had occasion myself to call !ops in -ops and the call has gone unanswered
<Seeker`> leaving 2 or 3 ops sitting in -ops not being able to do anything about a troll sitting there taunting us
<jussi> My view is that we need to get the core ops thing up and running, and then the core ops will be given +o in -ops. (as planned)
<Seeker`> The way I see it, if someone is trusted enough to have +o in one or more core channels, they should be trusted enough to have +o in -ops. I understand that the rules in -ops are a bit different to core channels, so perhaps a delay between becoming +o in a core channel and -ops may be appropriate, until individuals understand howt he channel works better
<Seeker`> -done-
<tsimpson> personally, I'm more inclined to give people +o before we get the core ops thing sorted
<tsimpson> it is, after all, the ops channel
<Tm_T> question is, to who? (:
<tsimpson> for the moment, I'm all for giving the operators in core channels +o
<nhandler> My biggest issue is that the channel has always been treated as an exception. ~ubuntu-core-irc-channels is a subteam of it on LP (which implies it is a core channel), but we've never really applied the OP application process to it
<tsimpson> it should only take the modification of a template
<topyli> isn't everybody in -ops an op in one or more core channels?
<tsimpson> topyli: nope, for legacy reasons
<Seeker`> topyli: not necessarily. Popey isn't
<nhandler> topyli: Besides freenode staff, they should be (including the core devel ops)
<jussi> I think we give a few ops in the correct timzones +o, as per the need, recruit the same as any other channel
<nhandler> Seeker`: He is an #ubuntu-meeting op
<rww_> tsimpson: who falls under legacy reasons? as I understood it, those people got asked not to idle a while back
<Seeker`> nhandler: my mistake, he said he wasn't a core channels op earlier :P
<tsimpson> rww_: ops become inactive or leave, but the access list is not updated
<rww_> oh, okay, I misunderstood. thanks
<Seeker`> jussi: any good reasons for only appointing a few people?
<jussi> I really strongly think that in the meantime, before the core ops thing is implemented, we treat it like any other channel
<nhandler> jussi: I would be in favor of that.
<nhandler> I really hate exceptions ;)
<topyli> i think this is a normal situation of a channel needing a few more ops
<topyli> much like jussi said
<Seeker`> jussi: surely it is more important to get the right people, rather than just giving it to people because they occupy the right timezone
<nhandler> Seeker`: Which is why interested people would apply and get chosen by the IRCC (just like people interested in being an #ubuntu op have to do)
<nhandler> We aren't just going to let some unqualified person be an OP (in any core channel)
<topyli> Seeker`: timezone is one of the qualities that makes a person "right"
<nhandler> But not the only one ;)
<topyli> certainly not :)
<tsimpson> ok, so which time zones do we feel are lacking?
<Seeker`> just checking :) jussi's statement implied that timezone is the deciding factor
<Seeker`> err, mainly from about midnight to 9am UK time is when I've seen the most incidents
<ikonia> to be honest, I don't think there is a blank spot, it's hit and miss and luck of the draw
<nhandler> jussi, topyli, tsimpson: Are we basically in agreement that we will treat #ubuntu-ops like any other core channel in need of more OPs at least until we get the core-ops set up?
<jussi> Im usually around on most days UK 7-9
<tsimpson> nhandler: as it is a core channel, yes
<topyli> nhandler: i would agree
<jussi> nhandler: make it a vote, but yes
<nhandler> jussi: Fine. Not much point in a vote when there is clear agreement, but for formalities sake...
<tsimpson> I don't think we need to vote, it's listed as core anyway
<Seeker`> ikonia: agreed. At the moment half of the -ops access list is inactive, and it is pretty much dependant on who is online when
<rww_> ikonia: I don't really agree. This is the third time I think that timeslot's been mentioned as not having enough ops in the past year..
<Seeker`> ikonia: but out of all time periods, I think that is the worst
<nhandler> [VOTE] Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<ikonia> rww_: sorry, I'm sure there are blank spots, but not ones that suffer over others
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<jussi> awesome
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<tsimpson> so, we start the process to assign new ops for TZs we need
<topyli> also, let's recruit some ops there :)
<nhandler> [AGREED] Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup
<nhandler> tsimpson: What timezones should that be? midnight to 9am UK time ?
<tsimpson> we should note when announcing, that it will (unlike other core channels) be restricted to core channel ops only
<topyli> i wouldn't think it will be difficult to get ops for -ops, as we have very good op candidates on the channel :)
<jussi> topyli: +1
<nhandler> tsimpson: Agreed. As only core channel ops can be in there, other users would not be qualified
<jussi> but yeah, that tz sounds about right tio me
<nhandler> [IDEA] Recruit OPs for midnight to 9am UK time
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Recruit OPs for midnight to 9am UK time
<tsimpson> nhandler: I think US and AU (maybe Asia) would fall into those times
<nhandler> What is UK time? UTC+1 ?
<tsimpson> it's quite a large gap
<tsimpson> currently +1, as it's summer-time
<nhandler> Well, the early portion of that range could definitely work for people in the US. But 9am UK would be pretty early for most people
<Seeker`> well, apart from aus
<jussi> 9am UK is good for Euro
<topyli> generally i think we should take good care that someone always has access in -ops because that's where we forward our problems
<jussi> its the euro early morning that is the most issue
<topyli> well not our problems but you know, problems
<nhandler> Does someone want to volunteer to send out an email about this? If not, I think I could handle the action
<jussi> nhandler: I think tsimpson is planning one about the core ops, but there needs to be one about the op recruitment
<nhandler> jussi: He sent that out earlier today
<topyli> go ahead. we don't need to advertise this more publically since the email list should reach all eligible candidates
<jussi> oh, havent looked at mail recently :D
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to send out email about recruiting OPs for #ubuntu-ops
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to send out email about recruiting OPs for #ubuntu-ops
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<rww_> Any idea when you're going to be asking for more #ubuntu operator applications?
<tsimpson> do you think more are needed?
<jussi> rww_: we were planning on it soon
<jussi> we did have a discussion about it
<tsimpson> who is this "we" you keep going on about? ;p
<Seeker`> the voices in jussi's head
<topyli> :)
<IdleOne> Don't know if more are needed but I for one am +1 for rww being a #ubuntu op
<jussi> tsimpson: people who werent absent for ages :P
<jussi> also, perhaps we should quickly breach the topic of copying the access list of #u to #u+1?
<tsimpson> oh, yes we should
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Copying access list of #ubuntu to #ubuntu+1
<MootBot> New Topic:  Copying access list of #ubuntu to #ubuntu+1
<rww_> tsimpson: yes, I think #ubuntu has a similar timezone coverage issue to -ops. The other day, I think the ops factoid got called two or three times before someone showed up, for example, and it's not an isolated thing.
<nhandler> jussi: Care to breifly summarize this for everyone else?
<tsimpson> rww_: looks like it'll happen soon anyway
 * rww_ nods
<jussi> simply  that we copy the access list across to +1 as there isnt much difference between them
<tsimpson> and, imo, +1 is understaffed
<jussi> yes, that too
<IdleOne> agreed
<topyli> it's a simple and good solution
<topyli> i'm not sure if it's enough though, not all #u ops are automatically active in +1
<jussi> topyli: true, but we can then add more if needed.
<rww_> topyli: true, but it can only help that
<nhandler> If we were to do this, would it be a one time copy? Or would we basically say "If you become a #u op you also become a +1 op"?
<tsimpson> a few are, and we can send out a mail requesting people to idle there
<ikonia> +1 goes up/down in activity
<topyli> nhandler: i would make it permanent
<ikonia> and it's normally quite a well behaved channel
<tsimpson> they don't need to be especially active in there, just watch it
<jussi> nhandler: I think the latter
<jussi> and be able to respond to ops calls
<topyli> and even if everybody doesn't join +1, it's still an improvement
<tsimpson> as +1 is a support channel, it makes sense for #u ops to be ops there
<nhandler> I have no objections as long as we document this on the wiki somewhere
<nhandler> Shall we vote?
<jussi> yes
<jussi> basically that we unify and keep unified the #u and #u+1 lists
<jussi> IMHO
<nhandler> jussi: Well, it isn't really unifying, as there will be some OPs in +1 that aren't in #u
<nhandler> But all #u ops will be ops in +1
<jussi> I suppose
<nhandler> [VOTE] Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> until we (probably I) get the access list stuff sorted, we can live with keeping existing ops for +1 around
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<nhandler> [AGREED] Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1
<nhandler> Would someone like to document this on the wiki, send out an email to the ML, and update the access lists?
<topyli> tsimpson: +1 is not going to be very busy for a while now, so there is time to fix this
<tsimpson> topyli: if you know python, you can help :)
 * tsimpson starts begging
<topyli> yes i've heard of python
<nhandler> We also need to update LP to reflect this
<tsimpson> once you know python, you can corrupt that knowledge with supybot
<nhandler> tsimpson: Would you like this action?
<tsimpson> where will we note it?
<nhandler> tsimpson: Maybe on the OP application page
<tsimpson> ah, we already have a "Notes" section, it will fit well there
<nhandler> tsimpson: So are you fine with this action?
<tsimpson> nhandler: ok, I'll do that
<nhandler> [ACTION] tsimpson to document change on the OP application wiki page, send email to ML, update access lists, and update teams on LP
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to document change on the OP application wiki page, send email to ML, update access lists, and update teams on LP
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Any more business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any more business?
<nhandler> jussi, tsimpson, topyli: Anything else?
<tsimpson> nothing from me
<topyli> nope
<nhandler> In that case, any volunteers to do the post-meeting tasks? If not, I'll do them.
<topyli> apparently not
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to do post-meeting tasks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to do post-meeting tasks
<nhandler> Great meeting everyone
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:44.
<topyli> thanks guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-03
<ara> hello o/
<Amoz> hi \o
<bladernr> \m/
<brendand> hi o/
<ara> OK, thanks for coming to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting
<ara> let's get started :)
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Mon Oct  3 15:01:24 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> The agenda today looks like this:
<ara>  * Testing Checkbox 0.12.8 and cleaning up results -- ara
<ara>  * AOB
<ara> As usual, I would encourage anyone to add topics to the main meeting wiki page:
<ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Meetings
<ara> #topic  Testing Checkbox 0.12.8 and cleaning up results -- ara
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Testing Checkbox 0.12.8 and cleaning up results -- ara
<ara> Most of what we were able to do for the client for Ubuntu Friendly is now done and uploaded to Ubuntu as Checkbox 0.12.8. Now is time to test it as much as possible and start tweaking the server based on the results that we get.
<cr3> o/
<ara> What I think that we need to do:
<ara>  * Clean up UF old results (they were made with versions of Checkbox that had too many bugs)
<ara>  * Everybody with an Oneiric system, please, use Checkbox 0.12.8 (not the PPA), and run the tests required for Ubuntu Friendly
<ara> The idea is to see what numbers are we getting and to see if we need to make changes to the server side.
<jedimike> o/
<ara> Any comments?
<ara> ..
<ara> cr3, go ahead, please
<cr3> Should we have an objective to get X number of systems with more than one star for the next meeting, where we could agree on X during this meeting?
<cr3> ..
<ara> jedimike, your turn
<ara> o/
<cr3> o/
<jedimike> I was just going to ask how to make sure I'm running the latest checkbox, as I've been using the ppa in the past
<jedimike> ..
<ara> OK, to cr3 question, I think we should try to get X number of submissions made with 0.12.8, we cannot guarantee the stars they will get :)
<ara> jedimike, if you are running Oneiric, apt-get install checkbox version=0.12.8 should do the trick
<ara> ..
<ara> cr3, go ahead
<cr3> We should probably not be considering any Oneiric results before at least RC, I don't think a development release should be considered friendly.. because they're mostly unfriendly anyways :)
<cr3> ..
<ara> o/
<roadmr> o/
<cr3> ara, go ahead :)
<jedimike> o/
<ara> agree, but I think that we need newer data (and cleaning up old one) so we make sure that 0.12.8 will give good results once 11.10 gets released
<ara> ..
<ara> roadmr, sir
<cr3> o/
<roadmr> um, at the *very* least everyone here should be able to submit a more-than-one-star result, all our laptops should work fine by now
<roadmr> if not, we'd have to look at why :)
<roadmr> ..
<ara> jedimike, your turn
<brendand> o/
<bladernr> o/
<jedimike> the reason I'm asking during this meeting is to that it's on record and everyone can be sure they're running the right version of checkbox
<jedimike> so, I'm *not* using the ppa, just the default oneiric sources
<jedimike> and I've done a full apt-get update and upgrade
<jedimike> and apt-get install checkbox version=0.12.8 complains that it can't find that version
<jedimike> so I want to make sure the instructions we give here work for people following along :)
<jedimike> ...
<ara> cr3, I think it is your turn
<cr3> ara, I don't understand the purpose of cleaning up the old data, is it to verify that the star systems works? that could be useful for testing purposes, but I think data prior to RC should be removed.
<cr3> .
<cr3> .
<ara> cr3, cleaning up = remove
<cr3> ara: ah! thanks for the clarification :)
<ara> sorry for the confusion :)
<ara> brendand, your turn
<brendand> for jedimike, and others listening - one thing you can do is 'dpkg -l | grep checkbox'. The PPA version will have 'bzr' in its version number
<brendand> i guess if you've been using the PPA you might need to 'apt-get remove checkbox', then 'apt-get install' again
<brendand> ..
<ara> bladernr, all yours
<bladernr> So assuming that I'm running 0.12.8 (apt-cache on my x201 says I am) and I run the tests and submit, is there anyting I need to do to get my results to appear in UF (and I'm assuming that is the bit.ly link) I've run checkbox and submitted several times but I've never seen my system appear in the UF listings.
<bladernr> ..
<ara> bladernr, when was the last time you run it?
<cr3> bladernr: results tracker updates from launchpad every hour, ubuntu friendly updates from results tracker every hour too, so it should appear within two hours
<bladernr> or wherever the site is currently sitting... since the bit.ly link is dead ;-)
<bladernr> ara:  it's been a week or two by now... got busy with other things
<cr3> crap, I wish the results tracker would show the systems per user: http://107.20.153.224/~bladernr
<bladernr> cr3:  that's what I thought, but i never saw it show up in either place...  Oh well, I'll try again today and see what happens.
<cr3> who the heck wrote that piece of crap :(
<ara> bladernr, is not here: http://107.20.216.30/?desktops=on&laptops=on&stars=1&release=4&popularity=any&term=lenovo ?
<jedimike> o/
<ara> jedimike, go ahead
<bladernr> ara:  oh what do you know... it DID show up
<cr3> ara: action item? jedimike, bladernr and I to look into his system?
<bladernr> ok... forget what I said, it DID end up in there.  It just wasn't there previously... I swear! :-)
<jedimike> I now have checkbox 0.12.8, hurrah! For people who've been using the PPA - you must move it from your sources, apt-get remove checkbox; (this will also uninstall ubuntu-desktop, so don't be surprized by that) and then apt-get install checkbox
<jedimike> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> OK, so couple of action items if you guys agree
<ara> #action cr3, jedimike: to remove results, as they are not useful and it is making it impossible to see what's still failing
<meetingology`> ACTION: cr3, jedimike: to remove results, as they are not useful and it is making it impossible to see what's still failing
<ara> #action All to submit at least 1 system using checkbox 0.12.8 by next meeting
<meetingology`> ACTION: All to submit at least 1 system using checkbox 0.12.8 by next meeting
<ara> ..
<cr3> o/
<ara> cr3, go ahead
<cr3> just to be clear, results will not be removed from the results tracker :)
<cr3> ..
<ara> cr3, cool, thanks for the clarification
<jedimike> o/
<ara> everybody agrees on the action items, otherwise?
<bladernr> 0/
<ara> jedimike, go ahead
<jedimike> so, the action is for me to remove the current 1-star results from the results tracker, and only import results submitted from current time onwards?
<jedimike> ..
<ara> jedimike, also the 4.5 one ;-) as brendand cheated a bit on that one :P
<jedimike> heh ok
<ara> bladernr, your turn
<bladernr> could cr3 or jedimike send an e-mail out to the UF list when the purge is complete so we'll know when to start sending (hopefully) legitimate test results in?
<bladernr> ..
<ara> bladernr, good idea, I guess they could :)
<cr3> bladernr: I think legitimate results should happen when we consider oneiric to be legitimate
<bladernr> cr3:  semi-legitimate then
<ara> cr3, legitimate results as in legitimate for the action item :)
<bladernr> or... faux-legitimate
<cr3> ok, my brain just leaked
<ara> o/
<cr3> ara: go ahead
<brendand> o/
<jedimike> o/
<ara> cr3, is it possible to discard submissions that are being done by checkbox < 0.12.8 ?
<ara> ..
<cr3> ara: nope, client information is not recorded
<cr3> ..
<ara> cr3, thanks
<ara> brendand, your turn
<brendand> i'll answer 'no' to bluetooth/file-transfer next time (if it hasn't been removed?)
<brendand> ..
<jedimike> o/
<ara> brendand, it was removed
<ara> jedimike, your turn
<Amoz> o/
<jedimike> there's still a problem with the bluetooth/detect test
<jedimike> it fails, and checkbox asks you to submit a bug
<brendand> o/
<jedimike> looks like the reason it fails is that the bluez-hcidump package isn't installed
<jedimike> that shouldn't not be installed if we're running checkbox, surely?
<jedimike> I'm submitting a bug report
<jedimike> ..
<ara> Amoz, your turn
<Amoz> shouldn't it save the client and ubuntu versions (beta, RC etc.) so we can look at the actual progress for a new release in terms of UF:ness?
<Amoz> ..
<ara> brendand, your turn
<cr3> o/
<brendand> the bluetooth/detect test is just the output of 'hcitool dev'. it doesn't depend on bluez-hcidump. it fails if there is no bluetooth device on the system, which makes sense
<brendand> ...
<ara> o/
<jedimike> o/
<ara> cr3, go ahead
<cr3> Amoz: UF'ness is a good point but rather complicated to scale for the ubuntu community because it would require recording all the packages installed in order to detect things like packages installed from PPA, etc.
<cr3> ..
<ara> my turn, I guess
<ara> so, to Amoz, that'd be useful but as cr3, it is very difficult to implement. But we might consider it for future versions
<cr3> ara: blueprint?
<ara> to brendand, jedimike on the detect one
<Amoz> o/
<jedimike> brendand: I appreciate the test doesn't need hcidump, and when the test fails and it asks me if I want to submit a bug, it asks me to run that command, which isn't installed. It's just confusing that the test is meant to fail if I have no bluetooth hardware, and yet it asks me if I want to submit a bug...
<jedimike> Being a fan of ubuntu and wanting to improve it, of course I want to submit a bug
<ara> brendand, the test is not meant to be run if the system does not have bluetooth
<jedimike> Ah, then that might be the problem, I have no bluetooth hardware and yet the test is running
<jedimike> ..
<ara> brendand, or if it is meant to be run, then it shouldn't count as failure in UF
<ara> brendand, jedimike: let's take this offline
<ara> Amoz, your turn, agian
<Amoz> to clarify, if checkbox is able to send the info about whether it's beta1/rc/alpha the UF site could just ignore all the versions except the stable ones.
<cr3> o/
<Amoz> this way everyone can see the big picture, but not cluttering the UF site with development releases
<Amoz> ..
<ara> cr3, yes, sir
<cr3> Amoz: accurately detecting beta1, etc. is very complicated. it can only be determined reliably by comparing the set of packages and their versions to the state of the archive within the delta of the release you're interested in... pain! :)
<Amoz> ah, of course. thanks for clarifying that
<ara> OK
<ara> anything else on this topic?
<cr3> Amoz: the best that can accomplished, with meh accuracy, is checking the output of lsb-release for development vs stable or the kernel version... but, as I said, that's "meh" at best
<cr3> ..
<cr3> Amoz: fyi, that was considered pretty important at some point, so likely to be worked on eventually
<ara> cr3, Amoz: the blueprint that might cover those topics is: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/certify-planning/+spec/hardware-p-cert-selftest
<cr3> ara: thanks!
<ara> anything else on this topic, or shall we move on?
<ara> #topic Any Other Business?
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business?
<ara> Any last minute topic?
<ara> OK, let's wrap up then
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Mon Oct  3 15:40:52 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-03-15.01.moin.txt
<ara> thanks all!!
<roadmr> thanks :)
<cr3> o/
<cr3> just kidding :)
<amithkk> BOOM!
<amithkk> wrong tab..
<jdstrand> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Mon Oct  3 17:00:52 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Ubuntu 11.10 is scheduled to release in next week. If you are interested, it would be great if people helped make sure that the [[https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-cve-tracker|Ubuntu CVE Tracker]] is up to date for the devel release (particularly for universe/multiverse packages).
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> this may be a potentially short week for me-- I am attempting to swap this friday for monday
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I have at least one more MIR security review I need to do (almost done!)
<jdstrand> hope to get to my few remaining work items (they aren't tied to the release)
<jdstrand> also doing UDS preparation
<jdstrand> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseCycle duties
<jdstrand> I figured I can take the qrt testing, we'll coordinate outside of this meeting via the wiki like normal
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<sbeattie> jdstrand: FYI, I set up the QRT testing wiki page already
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of updates ready to go, and will work on testing them this week
<mdeslaur> monday, I'm off, because it's Turkey day, or Queen day, or Queen Turkey day, or something
<jdstrand> sbeattie: exceelent
<mdeslaur> I will also be creating the uds blueprints this week
<mdeslaur> I'm also on triage, and kernel workflow duty
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<sbeattie> I've got a couple of updates that I'm still working on.
<sbeattie> I'm also doing UDS prep
<sbeattie> As well as QRT testing for oneiric.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: poke.
<micahg> Chromium updates (for real this time :)), possibly QRT browser run through for oneiric, patch pilot
<micahg> ..
<micahg> tyhicks: you're up
<jdstrand> oh, I'm patch piloting this week too
<tyhicks> I am doing the community role for my first time this week
<tyhicks> Outside of learning and carrying out those duties, I'll be working to fix several eCryptfs bugs
<tyhicks> jdstrand: That's it for me
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Securi
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-jpgraph.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cowbell.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-subtitles.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/weechat.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/slim.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: congrats on the first USN and on picking up the normal rotation duties!
<tyhicks> sbeattie: Thank you!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes, congratulations!
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: congrats!
<tyhicks> Now to get much faster at those roles :)
<tyhicks> Thanks jdstrand and mdeslaur!
<jdstrand> I guess that's it. thanks guys!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Mon Oct  3 17:15:26 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-03-17.00.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-04
<hallyn_> \o/
<lynxman> hallyn_: hey :)
<hallyn_> hm, that looks too enthusiastic
<hallyn_> \-o
<lynxman> hallyn_: try a more subdued approach
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn_> yeah.  i'm not at some fancy conference where i can guzzle coffeee all day to keep me enthuzed :)
<jamespage> hello fellow ubuntu-server'ers
<lynxman> jamespage! \o/
<hallyn_> that's espresso talking
<lynxman> hallyn_: I'm out of Nespresso capsules, crisis mode here
<jamespage> whos in the seat this week?
<jamespage> utlemming - did you do last week?
<hallyn_> well i think we're hoping spamaps will be here
<jamespage> SpamapS - around?
<hallyn_> else i'll do it.  (or we can take this chance to fold in Ursinha)
<m_3> I think he's working on hw in Boston
<hallyn_> excuses
<utlemming> I did...I thought I updated the wiki
<lynxman> Ursinha: time to shine? :)
<hallyn_> utlemming: you didnt' update the list of people at the top
<hallyn_> (moving yourself to the back)
<hallyn_> and no. smoser was teh last to update
 * utlemming is embarrassed for dropping the ball
<jamespage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20110927
<jamespage> hey - you filed minutes
<hallyn_> it's a lot of steps...
<hallyn_> ok, on emore minute for Ursinha or SpamapS to speak up
<hallyn_> Daviey: who else do we need to fold in btw?
<Daviey> I am here, i suspect the other ODS attendees will not be.
<Daviey> The internet is awful.
<hallyn_> sigh
<hallyn_> should we postponed?
<Daviey> I think we should do a run regardless, even if it's not fully addressed.
<hallyn_> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Tue Oct  4 16:09:45 2011 UTC.  The chair is hallyn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<hallyn_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> ACTION: hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<hallyn_> hggdh: are you around?
<hggdh> yes
<hallyn_> did  y'all talk?
<hggdh> I am, right now, looking at it; no, I did not talk with SpamapS yet
<hallyn_> punt for next week?
<hggdh> pinged him, but he seems unavailable
<hallyn_> ok, thx
<hggdh> I intend to test it as soon as I have my KVM as I want
<hggdh> which should happen in the next 30 min
<hallyn_> #action hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before (hggdh to test)
<meetingology`> ACTION: hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before (hggdh to test)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<hallyn_> ACTION: jamespage to look at bug 655533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655533 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Natty) "[master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655533
<jamespage> done - fixed
<hallyn_> excellent!  thanks
<jamespage> in oneiric anyways
<hallyn_> : Daviey, smoser, hallyn to follow up on bug 801494
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<hallyn_> hmmmmmm
<jamespage> I've been debugging that with jhunt today
<Daviey> That is blocked on seeing if it is a duplicate of the udev race, no?
<jamespage> Daviey: pretty sure it is  - lemme catchup with jhunt again - in all likelyhood it is a dupe
<hallyn_> jamespage: any progress not reflected in the bugs or email yet?
<jamespage> hallyn_: action me to follow up with jhunt
<jamespage> but no progress - jhunt has had remote access to the system
<jamespage> its reproducable but no fix yet
<hallyn_> #action jamespage to follow up with jhunt on udev/lvm bugs including 801494
<meetingology`> ACTION: jamespage to follow up with jhunt on udev/lvm bugs including 801494
<hallyn_> ACTION: Deadline for ODS is today
<hallyn_> nothing to do there :)
<jamespage> \o/
<hallyn_> ACTION: smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<hallyn_> utlemming: ?
<hallyn_> sounds from the bug report like it is solved?
<utlemming> I'm still testing that. New AMI's are being spun for testing.
<utlemming> mark that for follow-up next week
<hallyn_> ok
<hallyn_> #action smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<meetingology`> ACTION: smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<hallyn_> thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<hallyn_> lastly,
<hallyn_> ACTION: utlemming to figure out qemu image situation
<hallyn_> utlemming: ?
<hallyn_> will mark for next week too...
<utlemming> qemu images will need a bit of work.
<utlemming> the problem is being caused by bootloader options
<hallyn_> is there anything more specific we can mark in a new action?
<utlemming> not really
<hallyn_> #action utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<hallyn_> ok, thanks :)
<hallyn_> #topic Oneiric Development
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Oneiric Development
<hallyn_> Daviey: robbiew: ^
<robbiew> there is none
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> just bug fixing :D
<robbiew> ship it!
<hallyn_> and how
<hallyn_> moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn_> obviously, openstack conference right now.  anything else coming up?
<hallyn_> ok, moving on
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hallyn_> hggdh: hi again
<hallyn_> moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<hallyn_> smb is not around
<Daviey> hallyn_: Just adding to the development section - things look good.. but we need more, more testing.
<hallyn_> Daviey: after thursday, final freeze is over?  no more changes at all?
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<hallyn_> NCommander is not around
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<hallyn_> hi, anything to bring up?
<Daviey> hallyn_: I don't think after RC (Thursday) there will be no changes.. but there will be limited changes.
<lynxman> my only concern on that side is puppet, but spoke with Daviey already about it
<Daviey> Note that things we care about in Universe can still be fixed upto 36 hours befoere release.
<hallyn_> Daviey: phew
<Daviey> before*
<hallyn_> i assume low priority bugs should wait for an SRU
<hallyn_> (thinkgs like 'command_names=1' in /etc/lvm.conf)
<hallyn_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<lynxman> Just as a question, are we finally shipping keystone in Oneiric?
<Daviey> lynxman: we always have been, but it's not in main or integrated by default.
<Daviey> NFI if it works. :)
<lynxman> Daviey: it doesn't (at least not much)
<Daviey> lynxman: What bugs have you raised with the issues you had?
<lynxman> Daviey: we raised bugs directly with upstream, keystone mysql integration with innodb is broken due to bad schema definitions
<lynxman> Daviey: also another bug raised with upstream about sqlite3 code
<Daviey> lynxman: we really need Ubuntu tasks on the bugs if they are going to be fixed in Ubuntu.
<Daviey> lynxman: If you are able, and willing to help address these issues for Oneiric - that would rock. my. world.
<lynxman> Daviey: yeah noted, but this one affected upstream directly :)
<lynxman> Daviey: it's too broken for oneiric I'm afraid :/ ttx is pushing for a diablo keystone version "coming soon"
<lynxman> Daviey: we had lots of issues with it last week and we finally abandoned implementation for the moment
<Daviey> The keystone honcho and ttx are here this week, i'll grab them for gudance.
<Daviey> [ACTION]
<meetingology`> ACTION:
<hallyn_> #action Daviey to talk to ttx and keystone honcho for guidance about oneiric package
<meetingology`> ACTION: Daviey to talk to ttx and keystone honcho for guidance about oneiric package
<hallyn_> any one else have some actions for Daviey ?
 * hallyn_ looks over at his dirty car
<hallyn_> then it only remains to,
<hallyn_> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<hallyn_> Next Tuesday, October 11 at 16:00 UTC
<hallyn_> thanks, all
<hallyn_> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Tue Oct  4 16:36:18 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-04-16.09.moin.txt
<Daviey> thanks hallyn_
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Tue Oct  4 17:00:07 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jjohansen> \o
<smb> \o
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Stable arm kernels: a new natty/omap4 kernel is out.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: a new TI code drop has landed - omap 4460 support, dkms cross
<ppisati> compilation, a couple of drm reverts for the upcoming gfx driver and various
<ppisati> fixes. This pretty much represents the omap4 kernel Oneiric will ship with.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 40 linux kernel bugs (up 20)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 5 oneiric linux kernel bugs (up 5)
<ogasawara>  * 13 natty linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 308 oneiric bugs (up 53)
<ogasawara>  * 1663 natty bugs (up 20)
<ogasawara>  * 1108 maverick bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 992 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 46 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 17 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 75 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 8 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 431 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 237 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 209 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 oneiric bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 4 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items
<bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your final Oneiric work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We remain at the 3.0.0-12.19 kernel and are queuing misc bug fixes at this time.  These queued fixes are not release critical and will be available in the first Oneiric SRU.  Also, upstream stable v3.0.5 and v3.0.6 were just released.  We are currently in the process of reviwing and pulling these patches.
<ogasawara> Some important upcoming dates are as follows:
<ogasawara>  *  Oct  6 - Release Candidate (2 days)
<ogasawara>  *  Oct 13 - Final Release (~1 week)
<ogasawara> I would also like to note that the P-series git repo has been rebased to v3.1-rc8 and is available at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git master-next .
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      || No Fix ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||        ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    7 (+2) ||     5  ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    5 (+3) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    3 (+1) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    5 (+3) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    5 (+3) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    5 (+3) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    3 (+1) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    5 (+3) ||     2  ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    4 (+2) ||     2  ||
<apw>  
<apw> Three additional CVEs were added this week, one is fixed and out for review and the other two are being prepared currently.  We continue to have 2 CVEs without fix across the board.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || In general, updates have been less frequent and smaller, due to the kernel.org
<sconklin> || problems. This is pretty much resolved upstream, and I expect that the number of
<sconklin> || patches being applied in stable updates will increase sharply in the next few
<sconklin> || cycles.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || SRU kernel status:
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html|Kernel SRU Workflow Status]]
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * Released
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/862556|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 862556 in linux-lts-backport-natty (Ubuntu) "linux-lts-backport-natty: 2.6.38-12.51~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * In Verification
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/854092|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 854092 in Kernel SRU Workflow certification-testing "linux: 2.6.35-30.60 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * In testing Phase. Undergoing regression testing, needs Certification testing
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/860832|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 860832 in Kernel SRU Workflow verification-testing "linux: 2.6.38-12.51 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * In Verification
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> welcome aboard jsalisbury
<jsalisbury> o/
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Tue Oct  4 17:06:16 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-04-17.00.moin.txt
<sconklin> thanks bjf
<apw> bjf, ta
<kamal> thanks bjf
<czajkowski> highvoltage: surely meeting is an hour ?
<highvoltage> czajkowski: indeed.
<czajkowski> highvoltage: lets not scare me and make me run around london shall we. just for that you can chair!
<highvoltage> most of us can do with a bit more running around :p
 * highvoltage runs
<highvoltage> (I accept my punishment)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: not when I just finished work navigated the tube and house hunted , you're the chair :)
<highvoltage> chair on the day there's only one applicant... score!
<stgraber> highvoltage: where did you run to? I haven't seen you running :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's because I was so fast!
<highvoltage> are we ready for the EMEA meeting?
<czajkowski> o/
<stgraber> I'll probably be in 3 minutes
<highvoltage> ok. in the meantime, Thomas_de_Graaff are you present?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> o/
<highvoltage> great
<highvoltage> we'll start in just a bit
<Thomas_de_Graaff> ok
<highvoltage> ogra_, drubin: are you present?
<drubin> ohia
<highvoltage> great.
<highvoltage> welcome to the EMEA RMB meeting for October
<highvoltage> * Note: only EMEA RMB members can vote on applicants
<highvoltage> Thomas_de_Graaff: would you like to introduce yourself?
<drubin> highvoltage: the bot has a function to limit voters
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Ok
<popey> we not using the bot?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> I'm a Ubuntu user for some years now, and became active in the community, mainly in promotion activities.
<Thomas_de_Graaff> More info can be found on the wiki:
<Thomas_de_Graaff> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThomasDeGraaff
<highvoltage> any questions for Thomas_de_Graaff?
<czajkowski> nope
<highvoltage> Thomas_de_Graaff: how do you feel about the NL loco currently? are you happy with it? is there anything you would like to change?
<popey> Thomas_de_Graaff: what do you do to recruit new members to the team?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> I am quite happy. If there is one thing I would like to see, it is a lot more active participants, volunteers.
<Thomas_de_Graaff> I do not really actively recruit team members. Mostly we just start organizing something, showing ideas, and people join the effort.
<highvoltage> Any final questions or word before we continue?
<popey> Thomas_de_Graaff: where are the team most active?
<popey> irc, mailing lists, forums?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> As a team we mostly use the forum for communication. This is because this medium is quite popular in our loco.
<Thomas_de_Graaff> We are founding a legal organization to support promotion activities, there we use a mailing list.
<popey> is that so you can take donations?
<highvoltage> What kind of legal organization?
<Thomas_de_Graaff> It's a non profit organization. This has to do with being able to receive donations, to get a bank account, to be able to arrange insurance for volunteers when needed etc.
<Thomas_de_Graaff> For sponsors it is really nice if we have a non profit organization, this has to do with tax regulations.
<Thomas_de_Graaff> To pay our bills we need a bank account.
<popey> I'd be interested to see your experience documented
<popey> many teams consider this an important task
<popey> and I think they could learn from your experience
<popey> (even though regulatory differences will be in different countries / territories of course)
<highvoltage> I'm quite surprised to hear this to be honest.
<highvoltage> popey: what other teams have done this?
<popey> France AIUI
<popey> Belgium?
<leoquant> germany
<popey> it's certainly a hot topic for many locos
<RawChid> Belgium yes
<popey> I have no further questions thanks Thomas_de_Graaff
<Thomas_de_Graaff> ok
<highvoltage> I'm also very interested since it's often considered a very, very bad idea to do that. So it would be nice to have some real-life stories from those teams about it.
<popey> yeah
<popey> btw anyone here to cheer for Thomas_de_Graaff ?
 * popey expects leoquant is?
<leoquant> yep !
<commandoline> \o/
<Ronnie> o/
<RawChid> .o/ !
<highvoltage> cheerleaders, cheer now or forever keep your peace!
<leoquant> \o/
<popey> excellent!
<gijsbert> +1
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Thx. guys. :D
<ertai_NL> +1
<asfyxia> \o/\
<highvoltage> Ok, time to vote, if you're not highvoltage, popey, drubin, ogra_, stgraber or czajkowski, then please don't vote!
 * popey checks he's on that list
<highvoltage> VOTE: Thomas_de_Graaff for Ubuntu membership
<popey> +1
<iulian> I'm not on that list. Oups.
<czajkowski> +1
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> iulian: ah, I didn't realise you're here, go ahead please :)
<popey> Keep up the great work, and I expect blog posts on planet ubuntu about your team! :D
<drubin> +1
<iulian> highvoltage: Sure. :)
<iulian> +1
<highvoltage> +1 [ great loco involvement ]
<popey> thats 5 of 7
<highvoltage> I don't think ogra_ is here
<popey> or 6 of 7
<iulian> Where's the bot?
<popey> if you count it correctly
<Thomas_de_Graaff> So I passed?
<highvoltage> yes
<leoquant> great! congrats Thomas_de_Graaff
<Thomas_de_Graaff> :D
<highvoltage> Thomas_de_Graaff: congratulations and welcome!
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Thx.
<popey> yay!
<gijsbert> Oke Thomas
<asfyxia> congratz Thomas
<popey> congrats, keep up the great work in .nl!
<RawChid> Congratz Thomas_de_Graaff
<highvoltage> iulian: sorry next time I'll take a few minutes before to learn how the new bot works
<drubin> congrats
<Ronnie> congrats Thomas_de_Graaff
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Thx. heren!
<highvoltage> popey: are you doing the usual launchpad driving?
<popey> ya
<highvoltage> great
<popey> added thomasdegraaff to ~ubuntumembers
<ertai_NL> Thomas_de_Graaff: congrats
<highvoltage> Thomas_de_Graaff: if you have any questions feel free to contact any of us, usually it takes around a day before your @ubuntu.com email address will kick in
<highvoltage> anything else before we adjourne?
<popey> This will be my last meeting I suspect
<JanC> to be clear: ubuntu-be is NOT a legal entity right now (we don't need it to have a bank account)
<popey> So just wanted to say it's been great fun, and keep up the great work!
<highvoltage> popey: wow, thanks for your work and contributions, you will be missed
<popey> Thank you.
<highvoltage> JanC: yeah I believe you can have a bank account for 'clubs' in most countries. is that what you did?
<ertai_NL> JanC: I also thougth that..
<JanC> highvoltage: something like that, yes
<highvoltage> well, I think that's it for this meeting, meeting adjourned! Thanks to everyone for attending! Next EMEA RMB meeting is on 2 November 2011 at the same time.
<JanC> they call it a "factual association" or something like that
<iulian> popey: I didn't have time to reply to that email but all I wanted to say is that you've done a brilliant job in both teams and you'll surely be missed!
<iulian> So thanks for that.
<drubin> Isthe meeting oveR?
 * drubin has a truck load of work he would like to get done before bed
<highvoltage> drubin: it is indeed.
<drubin> thanks highvoltage for chairing and popey for driving the bo
<drubin> launchpad*
<JanC> with "factual" <-> "registered" âº
<ogra_> sorry, i missed it, i'm actually +1 for Thomas_de_Graaff
<ogra_> (checked the wiki this afternoon already)
<highvoltage> Thomas_de_Graaff: ^^^ for what it's worth :)
<ogra_> heh
 * popey hugs ogra_ 
<ogra_> hey :)
<pleia2> highvoltage: include ubuntu-news-team on the mail too please so we can publish it in UWN :)
<pleia2> (a forward is fine)
<highvoltage> done. thanks :)
 * popey gets that mail again 
<popey> :D
<highvoltage> oh crap I sent it to ubuntu-news and not to ubuntu-news-team
<highvoltage> I'm sure someone will reject it at least... sending to the right one now
<highvoltage> popey: prepare to receive it again!
<pleia2> thank you :)
<juancarlospaco> hi guys, gals, and bots
<unimix> hey, juancarlospaco ! Nice to see you here :)
<pleia2> hi everyone
<juancarlospaco> hello unimix, nice to see you too :)
<juancarlospaco> hello Princess
<juancarlospaco> Leia
<popey> hello
<pleia2> We don't have anything on the agenda for this Community Council meeting so I figured we could just do a couple announcements :)
<popey> âº
<popey> ^ that smiley is huge in the ubuntu font
<pleia2> nominations for the new CC closed on Thursday, so sabdfl is looking over them and hopefully will release the poll to ubuntu members soon
<pleia2> hehe
<popey> excellent.
<juancarlospaco> cool
<technoviking> hello
<juancarlospaco> nothing is the Agenda for now ...?
<pleia2> popey put out a call on Wednesday for more ubuntu users moderators: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-September/251850.html
<pleia2> so the CC is working on reviewing those too
<juancarlospaco> 0_o
<juancarlospaco> oh...
<popey> now, about that
<popey> should the cc discuss first then send to the list?
<popey> or what? I am not sure what process to follow here
<pleia2> oops, this is the actual announcement: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-September/251713.html
<pleia2> (the other link is clarification)
<pleia2> popey: not sure
<popey> I'll post the list we have so far to the cc list and ask for help :D
<pleia2> thanks :)
<popey> glad we've had plenty of volunteers
<popey> sad that it decends into the usual crapfest â¹
<pleia2> yeah :|
<pleia2> that's all I had announcement-wise
<popey> ok, I have a discussion point for you
<popey> my perception may be way off the mark here, so do let me know
<popey> I've noticed some lack of enthusiasm in much of the ubuntu leadership lately
<popey> (myself included)
<pleia2> yeah, we've been having trouble keeping boards and councils staffed
<pleia2> and those staffing them, active
<popey> now perhaps some of this is natural churn
<popey> perhaps some is people getting "burned out" (c) jono bacon
<popey> i dont think it's either of those though
<popey> but I can't put my finger on what it is
<popey> are we not doing enough to develop new people into leadership roles perhaps?
<pleia2> it felt like to me we lost a number of key people in the natty cycle, and in every case I saw it coming
<popey> are people just sick of working with the same people for the last 6 years?
<pleia2> good question
<popey> I can see that we have a lot of the same people around the community
<popey> which in some ways is great of course :D
<popey> but you know what it's like, working day in day out with the same people
<popey> you can become tired of it
<pleia2> I think part of it is also the growth of the project, back when we got involved it wasn't *that* intimidating to go for a leadership position
<juancarlospaco> interesting readings here . . .
 * beuno waves
<pleia2> or feel like you could speak up at any time
<pleia2> hey beuno :)
<beuno> personally, I think part of it is that there seems to be less of a chance to influenve where Ubuntu is going, from the community
<beuno> which would discourage people from getting too involved
<popey> that too
<pleia2> yeah
<popey> why should I bother speaking up, canonical ignore me anyway?
<popey> that kind of thing?
<beuno> so the first place that would suffer due to that is leadership
<beuno> yeah
<popey> i think that's certainly got better recently, at least at the very top
<beuno> yeah, I think communication got better
<popey> the cc has had conf calls to discuss issues
<pleia2> and jono's community team has put a lot of work into making the community feel encouraged to participate in the direction of Unity
<popey> mark has taken on board comments from the cc about issues relating to to (for example) canonical<->community communication, and the ubuntu <-> gnome relationship.
<popey> yes, unity is quite a success in that regard ;)
<beuno> so I think we may need to find in which places leadership is most useful
<popey> looks to me on the surface like the development stuff seems to mostly "work", the DMB, tech board etc, that side of things seems "okay"?
<popey> it's more the community governance
<pleia2> yeah
<popey> It seems to me that jono has been a bit more distant from "us" this last year
<pleia2> agreed
<popey> perhaps because he's had to take on other stuff
<jono> popey, in what way?
<popey> well, in the past we "saw" you a lot
<popey> you participated a lot on mailing list threads, on irc
<jono> in what context? meetings, IRC?
<pleia2> jono: your team has been very focused on getting new developers and working on development workflows, less with locos and other community teams
<popey> now, I mostly see you telling your team to get on skype/G+
<popey> of course there's the videos, blog posts and stuff which still happen
<popey> but your role seems (from my perspective) to have changed quite a bit in the last year
<jono> I think I have spend less time on #ubuntu-community-team
<jono> primarily due to being busy with other work
<jono> popey, how has it changed?
<popey> less visibility, less involvement in community
<popey> sure we now have governance structures which are mostly semi-autonomous
<jono> popey, well I think I have been as equally involved, I am just not doing it all in that IRC channel
<popey> so the jono-blocking-factor is taken out of the equation
<jono> much of it has been on calls and elsewhere
<popey> Hmmm.
<jono> e.g. I spent a lot of time with the loco leadership around l.u.c
<popey> I'm not artiulating this quite the way I mean.
<jono> popey, what is the concern you have?
<popey> well, it's not specifically #ubuntu-community-team, and the amount of keyboard to irc time you spend
<beuno> so, I think we may need to find and articulate a better sense of purpose for the Ubuntu community
<jono> popey, right, but I am not sure if IRC time is the primary indicator of community involvement
<jono> it is not the best metric
<jono> it is a metric though
<popey> thats my point
<popey> or rather that's specifically _not_ my point
<popey> I am _not_ saying your irc time is a measure
<popey> thats exactly what I'm not saying
<popey> it's in general
<popey> I see less mail from you, less involvement from you
<popey> I hope this isnt coming across as a personal sleight, it's not meant that way
<jono> well I have been less involved in mailing lists, but I have had a lot more private and team-related mail
<popey> it was merely an observation that the community and canonical are changing
<pleia2> I guess it's because the involvement has gone to less asyncronous mediums like calls and g+ type things?
<popey> thats partly it, it's less visible to "us"
<jono> I am not denying my role has changed more as my team has grown
<jono> it is less about Jono who organizes much of the community and instead the guys to who do much of that work in their respective parts
<juancarlospaco> No more CD Ship-it, Android Tablets getting popular over Netbooks, Ubuntu in general its becoming very very easy to use and generates less community orientation requests, and such things...
<juancarlospaco> :P
<jono> much of my role is assessing the needs of stakeholders and ensuring the team is happy and delivering
<jono> so what is the primary concern behind this discussion?
<popey> ok, perhaps we're moving away from the point
<jono> is it the position of the community, leadership lethargy, or Canonical's involvement?
<popey> this wasn't my original point :D
<popey> i think there is certainly leadership lethargy
<IdleOne> jono I think the feeling is that you don't come out and play as often as you used to :)
<popey> and a lack of new blood being brought up
<popey> we seem to be fighting to find people to staff boards and councils
<jono> popey, leadership new blood
<popey> it's quite a struggle
<jono> IdleOne, I don't get as much to chit-chat, that's for sure, because my work is much more compressed than it was
<popey> some leadership, some potential leadership
<pleia2> yeah, last time we restaffed the CC the list of nominees was huge, mark had to reduce the list to a managable amount for the vote
<jono> popey, so do you feel leadership is not feeling energized in the project?
<pleia2> we're nowhere near that this time, and frequently staffing other boards requires multiple calls, and manual work (directly asking people to apply)
<popey> yes
<jono> popey, and this is a tough question, but is that the leadership is not feeling energized, or you specifically are not?
<popey> I think it's slipped over the last 12-18 months
<popey> it's an observation of a few people/teams
<jono> popey, do you have any specific examples?
<popey> asia board, irc council...
<jono> and what are the issues there?
<popey> asia board becoming quorate has been painful
<popey> repeated missed meetings
<jono> right
<pleia2> I spent months getting asias back on track
<popey> irc council has also missed meetings
<jono> why do you feel those issues are happening?
<popey> 22:06:54 < popey> now perhaps some of this is natural churn
<popey> 22:07:07 < popey> perhaps some is people getting "burned out" (c) jono bacon
<popey> 22:07:15 < popey> i dont think it's either of those though
<popey> ^^^^ that
<popey> 22:07:21 < popey> but I can't put my finger on what it is
<jono> you said you didnt it was those though :P
<jono> so do you think it is churn and burnout?
<popey> yeah, was copy/pasting for context
<jono> right, no you think those are the primary issues?
<jono> s/no/so
<popey> i think if left unchecked we'll have an even harder time staffing boards in 6 months / 12 months
<jono> ok, so lets drill into the causes and think of some solutions
<popey> as I said to pleia2 earlier, perhaps people are just sick of working with the same people for 6 years?
<jono> it strikes me that the issue is leaders not feeling a sense of drive for leadership
<jono> not feeling inspired to lead
<jono> so it then feels mechanical
<jono> and maybe we can improve that
<beuno> yeah, as I said before, i think the changes in the project have taken away some of the sense of purpose
<rww> this ^
<popey> yes, as beuno mentioned earlier, community people feel "out of the loop"
<jono> I think redefining the importance of our leadership could be valuable
<granjero> supporting #ubuntu-ar
<rww> Have been sitting trying to write something, but beuno did it shorter and better :)
<jono> well, feeling out of the loop is one thing, feeling motivated is another
<jono> both have problems and solutions
<Pendulum> Well, I think when people don't feel in the loop, it's harder for them to feel motivated
<popey> exactly
<jono> they are definitely connected
<popey> feeling like what you do/say doesn't actually matter
<IdleOne> ^
<popey> feeling more like a tiny tiny cog
<jono> so you think some leadership folks don't feel they have an impact on the project?
<popey> yes
<popey> very much so
<jono> ok
<popey> I certainly do.
<nhaines> I agree with beuno.  As a community advocate, the harder it is to know what decisions are being made, the harder it is for me to go out and tell people about them.
<jono> so what kind of impact?
<nhaines> And even worse, it's more and more difficult to know where decisions are being made so I can be a part of those decisions.
<popey> the kind of impact that makes doing what you do in your own time worthwhile
<jono> well I think we can divide this into two areas:
<popey> coders create code that people run, that's intrinsicly worthwhile
<jono>  * Decision Making - who makes decisions for the strategic direction of Ubuntu.
<popey> approving a new member can be worthwhile when you see the work they do
<jono>  * Ability To Participate - feeling you have the opportunity to bring value to Ubuntu
<jono> it sounds like popey is referring to seeing the value of your contributions
<jono> and the impact it has on others
<popey> yes, but take a look at the ircc for example, where they try to keep order and ensure timely, reliable, efficient, accurate support and help in our channels.
<popey> that can be very demanding
<jono> right
<popey> as can moderating mailing lists :D
<jono> so how do you feel we could reward their efforts and make them feel like they bring value?
<jono> I agree with the problem, but I think we need to think of solutions for each board as they differe
<jono> differ
<popey> sure
<popey> But I believe it's a widespread problem
<jono> I think part of the challenge here is that leadership in Ubuntu is often a thankless task
<Pendulum> I don't think it's specific to the boards, either
<popey> not something that affects just one individual or board
<jono> popey, agreed, but the solutions are specific to the domain
<popey> indeed
<jono> so it sounds like the problem we have is how we make leaders feel accomplished in their work
<jono> in work that is traditionally pretty thankless
<pleia2> yeah, I don't know how we do that
<jono> and we have some specific boards who need more support than others
 * popey pins a gold star on pleia2's chest
<jono> I certainly don't want to pin the responsibility on the CC, but with many boards reporting to the CC and TB, I think it would be great to see more inspirational leadership from the CC and TB
<popey> Yup, I agree.
<jono> this way if the CC and TB feel good about their works and that value, it could cascade down
<jono> maybe it would help if I have a regular call with the CC
<pleia2> fwiw, half the CC is not standing for re-appointment
<jono> and we can discuss these kinds of topics
<jono> pleia2, right
<rww> "how we make leaders feel accomplished in their work" --> I'd say Ubuntu contributors in general rather than leaders, personally. The burnout's in the ranks, not just the leadership.
<popey> that says a lot
<jono> rww, agreed, but we need to start somewhere
<rww> and there are contributors not going for leadership because they're burned out
<popey> half the cc is stepping down.
<rww> jono: indeed
<pleia2> so this problem goes all the way to the top, and it's hard for the CC to fix it when half the CC is impacted themselves (or otherwise moving away)
<jono> pleia2, agreed
<jono> so what can we do?
<rww> (which exascerbates the problem because less leaders = more work on the current leaders, and people end up leading multiple teams and burning out faster... but yeah, got to start somewhere)
<jono> do you folks have any ideas for solutions?
<jono> I totally agree with the problem
<popey> ok, good
<popey> I'm glad we're on the same page jono
<pleia2> I think we ask people how they feel and what they think will motivate them
<jono> popey, yup
<popey> i had a chat with dholbach about this earlier
<popey> he suggested talking to people who depart a while after to find out what specific issues there were
<popey> of course thats too late
<beuno> so maybe we could figure out some tangible goals for the community, ones the we all care about
<jono> I think one thing we need to be clear on, and going back to our previous discussion, is that just because I am not on IRC or chit-chatty as much, it doesn't mean that I or Canonical care less about the community
<popey> but if people have already put their mind to leaving, there's not a whole lot you can do
<popey> jono: just to be clear, that wasnt my point
<jono> I have always noticed that some people base their level of interaction with me as an indicator of Canonical interest in community
<jono> popey, I know, but this is a wider point
<popey> my point was more that it's pretty obvious from the external-to-canonical perspective that your job has changed
<jono> and maybe I need to clarify this more than when I started it was just me and now I manage five people, so this changes the nature of the role
<jono> yup
<Pendulum> I think from a general community point of view, there's a current feeling that there is more coming out from Canonical to the community than there is going back in _especially_ from the bits of the community that aren't coding
<popey> however, I too would like to find solutions to this
<Pendulum> and by "out" I mean in terms of communication, not content
<jono> Pendulum, what do you feel is the reason for that perspective?
<jono> my hunch is that we need to solve the problem from the top down - get the CC and TB motivation and inspirational to the community and then that will have more of a trickle down effect
<jono> we need to fix the CC and TB issues before we can truly solve the other teams
<popey> I agree, however I think you're somewhat underestimating your role in this
<popey> you are Community Manager.
<pleia2> a recent example is the countdown banners, canonical needed to be poked to start the competition for countdown banners, the deadline was very late, and they *still* haven't released them, even though they said they would last week
<popey> (sorry to labour the point)
<jono> popey, I agree, and as I said earlier, I think I need to have regular discussions with the CC and TB
<pleia2> so community members who worked on these are feeling a bit put out, people who need them for their sites are too
<jono> but I can't personally go and solve our leadership problems
<jono> I don't have the bandwidth
<jono> pleia2, good example
<beuno> I also think that we need to solve this within the community
<beuno> within the current councils, particularly the CC, I guess
<popey> well the vote will soon be underway to elect a new cc
<popey> and with 50% not standing for re-election there _will_ be "new blood" on the cc
<jono> popey, I am not taking myself out of the mix here, but I think we do need to empower the CC and TB to lead more
<jono> if it was just me, everything would block on me
 * beuno agrees
<popey> sure
<Pendulum> I was also thinking on the matter of you have 5 people on your team under you, but none of them (as far as I can tell) deals specifically with general community, instead they're specialised. You are now more manager than direct contact (which is fine and makes sense), but it leaves teams that aren't translations, devel, cloud, QA, or upstream out of the loop
<jono> Pendulum, sure, but that's just the nature of the beast
<pleia2> jono: well, you used to be the one who filled in the gaps
<jono> we are not going to be able to invest in a general community manager
<jono> pleia2, right, and I think that I am still doing that to a degree, I just have less time than I did
<jono> due to managing the team
 * pleia2 nods
<Pendulum> Right, but considering a good number of the people who do go for leadership positions are actually coming out of teams that don't fall under the more specifics
<jono> this is why I think we need to enable the community to lead
<jono> no one should just look to me or my team for leadership
<Pendulum> that then they don't feel like they have a voice to go to within Canonical
<pleia2> that hasn't really been communitcated well, so I think some of the teams feel a bit abandoned (in fact, I'm not even sure who we assign blueprints to anymore for teams like -women ad -news)
<Seeker`> the community shouldn't look to community managers for leadership?
<jono> Pendulum, do you feel me or my team are  unapproachable for people to reach out to at Canonical?
<popey> "no one should just look to me or my team for leadership" that is quite a change
<popey> we used to certainly.
<jono> popey, oops typo
<jono> no one should just look to me or my team *only* for leadership
<popey> I dont think that sufficiently changes the meaning :D
<jono> Seeker`, of course we can provide some leadership, but Ubuntu is too big for us to be the only leaders
<jono> popey, well we have never been the only leaders in the community
<jono> there were plenty of leaders in Ubuntu before I joined
<popey> sure.
<popey> I'm not about jono-bashing.
<popey> look, we have 15 mins left, suggestions welcome on ways to improve the status quo.
<jono> popey, what I am trying to understand is what your primary concern is
<jono> I think we all agree we need more leadership
<jono> and it can't be just my team
<AlanBell> given this conversation, how was there nothing on the CC agenda today?
<jono> it sounds like I all know we are slammed
<Pendulum> jono: I'm saying that if there are issues that are specific to groups that don't fall into those categories and quite honestly I think a lot of people feel like you're too busy to poke on a lot of things, then who do they go to?
<pleia2> AlanBell: popey snuck up on us!
<popey> AlanBell: i only thought of it this afternoon
<Pendulum> jono: I don't think it's an issue with you or your team specifically
<nhaines> I agree that maybe there *should* be a general community manager from Canonical.  Especially if you (jono) are being more useful overseeing the others.  I know your directs are fantastically efficient.
<beuno> Seeker`, also, don't forget that jono is the Community Manager for Canonical, which isn't a community position  :)
<Pendulum> I think it's structural
<Pendulum> nhaines: that's more what I'm thinking
<popey> I'd be interested in seeing sabdfl's take on this
<jono> Pendulum, it depends on the issues, if it is Canonical or blocking on Canonical, my team can help, if it is general ideas or leadership, I agree we may not have time sometimes
<popey> jono: i guess in short it boils down to community motivation.
<popey> or lack thereof
<jono> popey, right, and what is the source of the demotivation?
<pleia2> jono: I think the blueprint situation is worth considering, for any teams that don't fall under your guys, how do we get blueprints looked at? how do we get on the radar for the UDS schedule? you may not be the only leaders but you're the ones who control that and there are no instructions for how to
<jono> we all keep reiterating the problem but not identifying the cause so we can fix it :-)
<pleia2> I just ask akgraner to make things happen, and she nudges the right people
<pleia2> then -women and -news get on the schedule
<popey> jono: you seem to be implying that we know the cause.
<jono> pleia2, I can certainly not this as an issue - this is something that we can solve with more people approving, and this could include the CC and TB
<Pendulum> pleia2: I always poke jcastro ;-)
<jono> popey, I am not saying you do, but you know more about the problem than I do
<jono> I am asking you to delve in a little deeper to see if you can see the cause
<jono> why are the community feeling more demotivated?
<jono> once we get our finger on it I am 100% committed to solving it
<popey> i feel like I'm talking to an Eliza bot
<jono> ?
<popey> nvm
<jono> ok
<charlie-tca> If I may
<nhaines> Sometimes I feel like Canonical doesn't have a clear direction they're moving in with Ubuntu, and I think that churns up the water for the community as well.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: please
<charlie-tca> One of the issues I have seen is when community sees a problem, identifies it, begins to find solutions
<charlie-tca> Then someone from Canonical comes in and says : we are going to do ...
<Seeker`> I admit I've been out of the loop for a while, but it sounds like there is a lack of direction within the community. The TB is good for directing technical direction, and the CC is good for more general wide-spread decision, but if canonical wants a community then there need to be people within canonical that the community can go to for advice / diretion / to get things done
<charlie-tca> community now feels sqashed, and wonders why they should bother down the road
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: +1
<nhaines> charlie-tca: +1
<jono> charlie-tca, could you mail me a few examples of that so I can get a better idea of the issues you are referring to
<jono> so a feeling that some Canonical staff stomp on community strategy
<charlie-tca> es
<jono> thanks charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> yes
<IdleOne> nhaines: I disagree. I believe Canonical does have a clear direction. IMO and the opinion of a lot of people Canonical appears to care more about the money side of Ubuntu than it does the community side. least in the past yeah maybe two years.
<IdleOne> s/yeah/year/
<jono> IdleOne, while we are definitely trying to drive revenue, I don't think Canonical cares less about community
<nhaines> IdleOne: I don't have a problem with Canonical focusing on money.  It means the community doesn't have to.
<popey> jono: sorry if I dont have causes, this only came to mind this afternoon, after a convo with holbach, and other leaders.
<jono> but I do agree that the community dynamic has changed here and there
<jono> popey, np
<IdleOne> jono: it may be true that they still care but it doesn't look like it from this side of the screen
<nhaines> IdleOne: But a lot of the design decisions dropping out of the sky doesn't help much either.  And it may just be perspective.
<pleia2> not to beat the dead unity horse, but that change had significant impact on teams like accessibility and docs, they were seriously blind-sided and had very little help to get their respective things sorted for a release with a new UI
<beuno> I also don't think the change is about revenue at all, but about the strategy for achieving the goal (bug #1, etc)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<jono> I really want to resolve these issues, and I am keen to work with folks to identify them and solve them
<jono> I would like to liaise with the CC to identify the causes and put plans in place to resolve these in 12.04
<jono> in the meantime, can I ask each of you to mail me at jono@ubuntu.com and summarize the concerns you have with our community
<jono> this will help give me some more context about some of these challenges
<AlanBell> jono: it would be good if the plan for 200,000,000 users was more fully articulated, so far that is just an aspiration stated, not an exciting plan of how to do it
<Seeker`> why are community "fixes" tied to releases?
<jono> AlanBell, you assume it is articulated
<jono> ;-)
<jono> unfortunately I have to hop on the phone, but I am really glad we had this discussion
<nhaines> Seeker`: because Ubuntu is structured heavily around cadence.  They can blueprint this for 12.04 and meet at UDS to talk about it.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, jono I will get you an email
<jono> I think I need to step back in more and work with some of our leaders to identify these issues and resolve them
<beuno> so maybe wait until the new CC members are on board, bring up this discussion again with a little bit of warning for everybody to think about it?  :)
<nhaines> Seeker`: in that sense, the timing here is very fortunate.
<jono> maybe I should stand for the CC
<jono> so folks, please do share your concerns with me via email, all emails will be treated in confidence, so feel free to be open
<pleia2> thanks jono
<jono> apologies, folks, our community should be having these issues
<popey> yeah, thanks jono, sorry for pulling you in with no notice
<jono> it should be a fun and productive place to be
<jono> popey, no worries, it is important that we get these things out in the open and discuss them
<jono> later, folks
<pleia2> and thanks everyone who chimed in, it helps a lot
<popey> pleia2: i think we should mail the meeting link to the cc
<pleia2> popey: yes :)
<popey> I really appreciate everyone speaking up today, that was really vauable
<pleia2> I'll do it this evening if no one else has (need to get back to work now)
<popey> I'll do it now
<pleia2> thanks
<popey> np
<popey> I'll cc jono
<jono> thanks popey
<Pendulum> popey: thank you for bringing it up. I think it's been an elephant in the room for a while
<charlie-tca> popey: thanks for getting the discussion started
<nhaines> popey: I think you put words to a problem everyone was feeling.
<Seeker`> popey for president \o/
<pleia2> lol
 * Pendulum gives popey chocolate
<popey> thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-05
<czajkowski> popey: thank you for bringing up that topic! *hugs*
<popey> heh np
 * slangasek waves
<ev> hiya
<mvo> hello
 * stgraber waves
<bdmurray> hi
<barry> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Wed Oct  5 15:00:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> doko jhunt cjwatson slangasek mvo bdmurray stgraber barry ev
<ev> woohoo! I win
<slangasek> :-)
<stgraber> ;)
<slangasek> doko: care to start us off? :)
 * ev frantically types
<doko> oops, jhunt, please go ahead ...
<jhunt> Lots of work on bug 829980, bug 849414 and bug 818177.
<jhunt> â«
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829980 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart-udev-bridge eats 100% cpu calling dbus_message_iter_append_basic()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849414 in plymouth (Ubuntu P-series) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849414
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<cjwatson> d-i: avoid grub-installer crash with legacy non-os-prober menu generation (#851704)
<cjwatson> xdeb: upload 0.6.5, sync to oneiric
<cjwatson> grub2: recovery mode gfxpayload tweak (#854967)
<cjwatson> ubiquity: SSID Unicode fix (#839143), async geoname fetching (#837217), oem-config Qt encoding fix (#837042), reliable disk ordering (#770711), fix oem-config-prepare KDE logout inhibition (#856418), kill update-apt-cache reliably (#743359), working on Chinese language handling (#590108)
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> patch pilot on Tuesday morning
<slangasek> jhunt: any closer to the bottom on bug #818177? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<jhunt> jhunt: no :(
<slangasek> :(
<jhunt> problem is partly being able to reproduce the issue.
<jhunt> adam has a high hit rate, but I set up a system to reboot constantly and didn't get a hit in 25 reboots.
<slangasek> right
<doko> ok, ready
<slangasek> can he give you console access to his system?
<jhunt> I've tried lots of lvms, lots of plain disks.
<cjwatson> might help to widen the race by deliberately slowing down some relevant udev rules?
<cjwatson> usually a helpful tactic with race conditions
<jhunt> I'll try that. I've tried slowing down some *disks* but that didn't help :)
<cjwatson> incidentally somebody posted to ubuntu-users with a problem opening /root/dev/console; they say that they fixed it by fscking
<cjwatson> dunno if that's relevant ...
<jhunt> hmmm
<cjwatson> admittedly that was with 10.04, and it's not quite your same bug
<cjwatson> so ignore if it's a distraction :)
<slangasek> fscking!
<jhunt> I'll keep it in mind.
<jhunt> :)
<slangasek> doko: go ahead
<doko> - some last ftbfs fixes (xdotool, ruby-rails, ghdl, mmpong, xzgv, qcontrol)
<doko> - OpenJDK6 fixes for armel, IcedTea-Web update
<doko> - start working on toolchain updates for the p-series
<doko> - propose to better handle library syncs from experimental (ubuntu-devel)
<doko> - document new compiler flags: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
<doko> - write up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/P-SeriesOpening
<doko> done
<cjwatson> heh, I'd actually like perl 5.14 but only if Debian does it first ...
<cjwatson> (Debian #637809)
<ubottu> Debian bug 637809 in release.debian.org "transition: perl 5.14" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/637809
<doko> right, was just looking for an example for each section ;)
<doko> would like to get some feedback on this list, but maybe after the lightning round
<cjwatson> the list looked OK although we should do debhelper early as well
<doko> right, my intention is to write to u-d, to have people add things
<cjwatson> should probably only list things that block general opening though
<slangasek> thanks for the mail about experimental libraries too, I hope we'll see some improvement in how those are handled this cycle
<slangasek> me next:
<slangasek> - lots of flicker-free boot testing over the weekend
<slangasek> - fixed initramfs to include vesafb fallback on FRAMEBUFFER=y, fixing bug 864149, bug 563878, bug 771905
<slangasek> - revert various nvidia blacklists that are counterproductive needed (bug #854967, bug #864149)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 864149 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates (Ubuntu Oneiric) "initrd doesn't set keyboard layout when nvidia drivers are installed (FRAMEBUFFER=n override)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864149
<slangasek> - write up some documentation of how the boot-time graphics fit together
<slangasek> - teased the intel guys about nvidia working better
<slangasek> - work with Clint to pin an issue with failsafe network handling (bug #863864)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563878 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu splashscreen big and ugly after installing ATI/nVidia proprietary graphics driver" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563878
<slangasek> - work with stgraber to fix text messages showing on the console in ubiquity (bug #813065)
<slangasek> - taught debhelper to always pass dpkg-buildflags to perl MakeMaker build system.  Harden the world!
<slangasek> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771905 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "(natty/nvidia) No logo at boot on nvidia card" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854967 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates (Ubuntu) "boot to rescue mode in Oneiric" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854967
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 863864 in upstart (Ubuntu) "/etc/init/failsafe.conf doesn't actually stop on runlevel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813065 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Live session switches to VT console briefly" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813065
<slangasek> questions?
<bdmurray> slangasek: where is the boot time graphics documentation?
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootGraphicsArchitecture
<slangasek> bdmurray: good point :)
<mvo> my turn?
<slangasek> mvo: yep!
<mvo> software-center: fix HOME base license keys debug/fix xapian DocumentNotFound hang, fix crash in software-center a-x-i plugin (#819907), code review/branch merges, merge lp:~gary-lasker/software-center/license-fix-lp864706 and add test, debug/fix #865985 and add test-case, update html/qml versions to trunk
<mvo> update-manager: fix leaking auth info into upgrade log (#839094), test/upload u-m crashfix on amd64/multiarch, reproduce/fix gcc-4.4 upgrade issue (#853688)
<mvo> update-notifier: finish appindicator port, test, upload to oneiric (in the queue)
<mvo> python-apt: fix crash with latest vte (#865388), add __cmp__ for apt.Package to make sorting by name the default on apt.Package sorts
<mvo> unattended-upgrades: merge fix from Iain Nicol
<mvo> apt: work on lp:~mvo/apt/apt-key-net-update-master-fix2
<mvo> misc: bug triage, send initial patch and test libgnome-desktop3/gnome-settings-daemon dpms fix (#862139), test/upload libglib2.0-data fix for bug #854622, ran into libappindicator bug #833945 and propose fix,  libcanberra: create fix for crash in gtk-module #834403 that affects s-c
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854622 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Could not install libglib2.0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833945 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Allow to install system wide license keys" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833945
<mvo> piston-mini-client: work on better proxy support (LP: #863717)
<mvo> aptdaemon: fix crash in progress #858684
<mvo> EOF
<bdmurray> bug triage and testing of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> ubuntu bug control application review for Fathi, Ahmed Shams
<bdmurray> adding in date generated information to ubuntu-reports reports
<bdmurray> team recent package bugs improvements (display median numbers and not just top 5 packages)
<bdmurray> changing colors of fixing and triaging graphs to match colors Launchpad uses for bug statuses (LP: #855517)
<bdmurray> set up apport on cranberry and implemented a consolidate-bugs bugpatterns script there
<bdmurray> fixed lp_buttontags to reload the web page with the tag consistently
<bdmurray> writing an lpltk script to open series tasks and copy status / importance
<bdmurray> set up postgres and udd on the canonistack server
<bdmurray> review bugs found with similar titles using udd
<bdmurray> emailed debian title matches to Ursula for server team packages
<bdmurray> patch piloting
<bdmurray> \ done /
<stgraber> - Did a few last minute uploads for Edubuntu (translation update and bugfix)
<stgraber> - Mostly poked at Ubiquity this bug, trying to fix as many bugs as possible, will continue for the rest of the week
<stgraber>  - Support gsettings (bug 800760), copy Network Manager networks to the target, hopefully fix bug 657086 for good, http proxy support, ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 800760 in user-setup (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Needs gconf to gsettings updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800760
<stgraber> - Trying to get WebLive to work on Oneiric, an appserv is online since yesterday but I now have to port some of the arkose hacks and freenx/x2go to work on Oneiric
<stgraber> - Played a bit more with Drupal over the weekend, should have all the QA modules EXCEPT the ISO tracker ported to Drupal 7 quite soon. Then to start poking at the ISO tracker :)
<stgraber> - TODO
<stgraber>  - Edubuntu smoke testing (images currently building) and upgrade testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657086 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No restart option after choosing to "Continue Testing"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657086
<stgraber>  - Booked some time with highvoltage and mgariepy to go talk about Edubuntu and go through the final checklist on Friday
<stgraber>  - Next week I'll be in London for the release sprint
<stgraber> (done)
<barry> short week due to holiday; bug 795096 (turbojson ftbfs, python-peak.util); bug 850744 (quickly crash after upgrade); storm 0.19 release work, built out (natty for now) arm server & buildbot.  todo: merge python3-defaults from sid; update storm, gtimelog, flufl.* in debian; more ftbfs; investigate python test_socket failures on arm; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795096 in turbojson (Ubuntu Oneiric) "FTBFS with Python 2.7 as default" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850744 in quickly (Ubuntu) "quickly crashed with ImportError in __main__: No module named quickly" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850744
<ev> - Helped John update the screenshots for the 11.10 download tour and showed
<ev>   him how the release announcement is done in update-manager.
<ev> - Released a new slideshow with updated translations at the request of the
<ev>   Lithuanian team.
<ev> - Created a patch to ubiquity and partman-auto to account for swap size and
<ev>   the installation size when calculating the bounds of the partition resizing.
<ev>   Previously we were going with whatever partman-auto threw at us, which was
<ev>   often too small to hold Ubuntu (bug 769350).  Merges awaiting review.
<ev> - Call with mvo and Rick on improving the development cycle. Lots of really
<ev>   good plans from Rick and Jason on this front. I'm quite excited to see the
<ev>   final work discussed at UDS. I've signed myself up to help cheer and
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769350 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Oneiric) "resized partition size doesn't count swap space size." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769350
<ev>   develop.
<ev> - Follow up chat with John Lea about how this could apply to the approval
<ev>   process for Unity design and engineering.
<ev> - Reviewed the download page design with John Oxton.
<ev> - Set up a netbook with a mocked up Windows for John to do further screenshots
<ev>   of the 11.10 installer.
<ev> - Created a Testing in Ubuntu event for the Wednesday night at UDS with the
<ev>   assistance of Marianna and Jorge, following the call with Rick and mvo.  You
<ev>   should all come and give five minute talks:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-P/TestingInUbuntu
<slangasek> barry: that quickly issue was an interesting one... glad to see it was package-specific :)
<ev>   There will be free beer and pizza.  What more could you want?
<ev> - After helping Sian direct our PR agency on how to get the 11.10 Beta when
<ev>   they were woefully lost in the depths of the Ubuntu Forums, I had a
<ev>   discussion with John about getting the milestones displayed in the same
<barry> slangasek: me too! :)
<ev>   download page structure as the regular releases, for 12.04.  With a big
<ev>   warning that this is a pre-release and the final version will come in April,
<ev>   of course. We can do better than a link that's buried in the Google results
<ev>   that points to a complex wiki page that in turn points to a complex cdimage
<ev>   page with no instruction on burning a CD or USB disk until you're deep in
<ev>   paragraphs and paragraphs of text.  This should be a job for the web team,
<ev>   anyway.
<mvo> meh, I forgot to add this call to my report, thanks ev for mentioning it!
<ev> - In VirtualBox and Windows 7 hell.  The former lost sight of the Windows 7
<ev>   disk, despite it being just fine, and the latter refused to boot when I
<ev>   tried any of the snapshots I've made over the past few months.  The Windows
<ev>   install CD is crashing at boot.  Will hopefully have something sorted
<ev>   sharpish so I can fix Wubi bugs.
<ev> - Fixed the focusing of labels when we're in a screen reader profile (bug
<ev>   856782, bug 856773).
<ev> - Fixed a crasher around the ubiquity keyboard query (bug 865493) and a UI
<ev>   issue with the keyboard test entry (bug 862309).
<ev> - Tried time and time again to fix the killing of update-apt-cache (bug
<ev>   743359). Colin got it in the end - thanks!
<ev> (done)
<ev> apols for the ranting :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856773 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Welcome Screen: Cannot reach 'release notes' link with keyboard only." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 865493 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Hitting print screen or possibly closing the keyboard guessing window crashes ubiquity" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862309 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "In "test your keyboard", Enter doesn't trigger highlighted "Continue" button" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862309
<mvo> ev: is john interessted in better release announcements for u-m ?
<slangasek> ev: did the Lithuanian team miss the translation deadline?
<cjwatson> should be a job for the web team> er, only if they're prepared to be involved in cdimage maintenance :)
<slangasek> if so... that's not the first time
<ev> mvo: very much so
<cjwatson> it is indeed not
<mvo> ev: cooool!
<ev> he has a task for improving the download experience
<cjwatson> oh, wait, download page != releases.ubuntu.com index
<ev> which includes upgrades
<ev> you should get in touch :)
<cjwatson> yeah, download page => web team, sorry for my confusion
<ev> cjwatson: we should leave releases.ubuntu.com alone
<ev> indeed
<ev> and just have the ubuntu website point at the right ISO
<mvo> ev: absolutely, thanks for this! code-wise, it should be all ready I think, good content is missing
<ev> slangasek: they did not
<ev> I failed to do an 11th hour upload
<ev> I had done one the day before the deadline
<cjwatson> speaking of 11th hour translation uploads, I need to do gfxboot-theme-ubuntu nowish because there was a late string change from server ...
<slangasek> ev: ah, ok then :)
<cjwatson> (I did the string change last week or so, but would like to catch up on translations now)
<slangasek> Windows install CD is crashing at boot - haha
<ev> I love that step 1 of the "to fix the problem" steps is "insert your windows installation disc and restart your computer"
<slangasek> for all the bugs we've ever seen, I don't think we've ever had *that* problem ;)
<cjwatson> ev: what's the brief state of the wubi at the moment?  it's the only thing where I'm not entirely sure whether we're showstopper-free at the moment
<ev> cjwatson: I *think* we're largely okay
<ev> jibel has been testing it a bit
<ev> and I've been running through it as often as possible
<cjwatson> I noticed a few bugs recently, but they didn't seem horribly serious
<ev> pretty quiet on the bugs front
<ev> i
<ev> ndeed
<skaet> ev, does it make sense to get a signed copy ready now then?
<ev> I'm trying to get a quick fix in for the plymouth splash one
<ev> skaet: that's an excellent idea - but I'm going to wait until early next week
<ev> just so I can get these sorts of tiny fixes in
<ev> and then I'll ask James to take care of that
<skaet> ev, ok. thanks.
<ev> so we have it ready way ahead of release
<slangasek> ev: what's the plymouth splash issue, OOI?
<cjwatson> early next week> when are we planning to build candidate images though?
<slangasek> is that 862007?
<ev> incidentally, fairly quiet on the wubi bugs front.  Once we have the metrics server running early doors in 12.04, I think that will dramatically change our confidence in it
<ev> and the crash server, obviously
<ev> yes, bug 862007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862007 in Wubi "Wubi preinstalled image first boot should use 'quiet splash'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862007
<ev> tiny
<ev> and could probably do it in trunk and just build
<ev> but it's always good to test these things :)
<slangasek> dramatically change our confidence> I hope you mean "For the better" :)
<ev> yes
<mvo> *xough*
<mvo> cough even
<ev> even in the absence of bug reports, we'll know how many wubi installs are succeeding or failing
<ev> and where
<slangasek> skaet: when are you planning to start build candidate images?
<skaet> cjwatson, first set of candidate issues on thursday/friday after langpacks land,  then turn on official, on next monday and rebuild full set.
<ev> it will be a brave new world
<slangasek> ok
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess
<slangasek> skaet: since wubi goes on the CDs, that means we need a signed copy by then...
<ev> ah okay
<skaet> slangasek,  so it seems.   Right now calling for rleease minus 3 days,  but better if earlier.
<cjwatson> so how about we just sign as we go along
<ev> yes, I'll talk to james
<cjwatson> I think the process is faster now
<skaet> thanks.
<slangasek> ev: great, thanks :)
<ev> err, IS seems to have fled
<ev> must have realized we have a release coming up and all decided to take holiday
<cjwatson> wise decision
<ev> lol
<slangasek> [ACTION] ev to talk to james about getting wubi builds signed as we go so we don't hold up CD candidates
<meetingology`> ACTION: ev to talk to james about getting wubi builds signed as we go so we don't hold up CD candidates
<slangasek> btw, speaking of holidays and releases, next Monday is a bank holiday here in the US
<barry> slangasek: yep.  i swapped the day, so i will be working
<ev> Arbor Day?
<barry> columbus day
<ev> oh, that dude
<barry> yeah, go figure :)
<ev> :)
<slangasek> I'm off... which I guess means I'll only be working on the release in my free time? :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: find any interesting specimens for us this week?
<bdmurray> So I had a few in mind but it seems we move too fast and they are already be looked at
<bdmurray> Luckily there are still a couple
<bdmurray> bug 856055 - which I'm not quite certain that should be High
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856055 in memtest86+ (Ubuntu) "Memtest run from DI installer menu never finishes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856055
<ev> ...it never did?
<cjwatson> mm, I think that should probably be downgraded, it's hardware-specific
<doko> strange definition of luck ...
<cjwatson> no obvious fix upstream and I don't think any of us have a clue how to fix it ::)
<cjwatson> :)
<cjwatson> I'll downgrade it
<bdmurray> okay sounds good
<bdmurray> slangasek: we'd talked about bug 859188 once before but I don't think I commented on it well enough
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 859188 in apt (Ubuntu) "E: Internal Error, No file name for libgl1-mesa-glx" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859188
<bdmurray> so if you could have at it that'd be great
<slangasek> mvo: shall I add this to your pile? :)  apt-get install --reinstall doesn't work in the obvious manner when there's more than one arch for the lib
<slangasek> commented
<mvo> slangasek: thanks, I can have a look
<bdmurray> that's all then
<slangasek> mvo: "low" is the right priority though IMHO, it's a seldom-used option and there's a workaround
<mvo> ok
<cjwatson> does anyone have any absolute showstoppers they want to mention?
<cjwatson> right now I think bug 857472 is the only one I think qualifies
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 857472 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "net-update verifcation checking insecure" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857472
<mvo> I would appreciate some review of #857472
<mvo> heh :)
<slangasek> or anyone still working on *non* showstoppers that they're anxious to get in?
<cjwatson> but I'd like to be able to stand up in the release meeting on Friday and be confident of that
<mvo> I implemented the approach that slangasek suggested now but given the nature of this I would appreciate critical review
<cjwatson> I'm still working on bug 590108 as I mentioned
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 590108 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "User get wrong system language after executing oem-config, if he is a foreigner in the country he selected in timezone select stage" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590108
<cjwatson> but I'm restricting the scope of that to Portuguese and Chinese (i.e. the usual special-case languages)
<cjwatson> which I think is all the reporters care about)
<barry> slangasek: scottk requested a merge of debian's python3-defaults which is blocking a pyqt fix.  i'm going to get that in after lunch
<stgraber> I'm looking at a few ubiquity bugs but nothing that we absolutely need for release
<cjwatson> I also want to land the fix for the libdevel-bt-perl build failure that kees and I put together to complete the perl 5.12 transition, but that's universe and non-urgent
<ev> I'm going to land the resize fix now and do a new ubiquity upload
<stgraber> ev: I may have one more gsettings fix I'd like to have in that ubiquity upload, what's your ETA?
<ev> stgraber: planning to leave at 6pm local (just over an hour)
<cjwatson> bug 745960 and bug 854837 are my other nice-to-have fixes, but if I run out of time, they aren't showstoppers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854837 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Lubuntu live image boots to TTY" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854837
<jhunt> bug 818177 is pretty nasty as we don't really know what's triggering the problem and it does cause boot failures.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Oneiric) "boot failures caused by udev race" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<stgraber> ev: ok, I'll see if I can get it fixed by then, otherwise it'll have to be in the next ubiquity upload (assuming we'll have one more ;))
<slangasek> mvo: has anyone from the security team reviewed for 857472?  I'd be more confident in their review than my own
<cjwatson> jhunt: I agree it's nasty, it's on the edge of my mental showstopper criteria
<ev> stgraber: sure - do feel free to upload another one after me
<mvo> slangasek: I will ask them
<cjwatson> the thing that puts it on the non-showstopper side for me right now is lack of developer ability to reproduce; if you can get a reliable reproduction case I'd be more comfortable calling it a showstopper
<skaet> am a little worried about 848915,  since from duplicate patterns it was happening as recently as yesterday.
<slangasek> mvo: ok.  If they aren't going to get to it, come back to me and I'll have another look so we at least have some eyeballs on it
<cjwatson> bug 848915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848915 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "update-manager crashed with RuntimeError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gi/overrides/Gtk.py: Gtk couldn't be initialized" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848915
<cjwatson> mvo: ^?
<mvo> cjwatson: this sounds like DISPLAY is not set
<cjwatson> hm, you've commented I see
<mvo> cjwatson: this was the only way I managed to reproduce
<cjwatson> distinctly odd since the reporters seem to be using the GTK frontend though
<bdmurray> duplicate bug 867629 has a test case
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848915 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #867629 update-manager crashed with RuntimeError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gi/overrides/Gtk.py: Gtk couldn't be initialized" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848915
<cjwatson> surely they couldn't have got that far ...
<mvo> bdmurray: oh, nice!
<mvo> bdmurray: gksu then most likely
<cjwatson> yeah, gksu will be sanitising the environment
<slangasek> yeah, why would gksu need DISPLAY...
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> someone's triaging that one to gksu then?  someone want to work on it?
<jhunt> bdmurray, cjwatson, mvo: maybe apport could be changed to include DISPLAY in 'ProcEnviron'?
<mvo> I can have a look in a little bit
<slangasek> mvo: thanks
<slangasek> jhunt++
<jhunt> in fact, can't we just include all envar *names*?
<slangasek> bdmurray, jhunt: can you follow up on that question on #ubuntu-devel?
<cjwatson> slangasek: at this point I'd be more comfortable with a workaround than with changing gksu
<slangasek> cjwatson: ok
<slangasek> mvo: ^^
<mvo> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?  You have 1 minute :)
<cjwatson> (e.g. env DISPLAY="$DISPLAY" or whatever's appropriate)
<ev> I can't believe I have to repeat the words "free beer and pizza", but free beer and pizza: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-P/TestingInUbuntu
<ev> In all seriousness, I'm trying to build off the excitement and planning around refining our development process, as we centre it around test systems.  We'll need plenty of knowledge sharing to do this right.
<mvo> ev++
<cjwatson> I'll see what my energy levels are like by Wednesday ...
 * cjwatson <- old man
<ev> I joined a few folks in Millbank representing Ubuntu at the PC World Awards.  We didn't win, but rest assured we made more noise at the mispronunciation of our name than any other table.
<cjwatson> haha
<slangasek> so go sign up to exchange pizza for the contents of your brains at UDS :)
<ev> basically, yes
<cjwatson> fun black tie dinner?
<slangasek> ev: heh :)
<ev> it was!
<barry> ev: gluten free soy cheese pizza? :)
<ev> barry: ask Marianna :)
<ev> I'm sure we can find something for you to eat
<barry> ev: well, it's orlando, i'm not so sure :)
<mvo> remember the veggies
<ev> mmm vegetarians
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed Oct  5 16:02:30 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-05-15.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<barry> slangasek: thanks!
<jhunt> cheers
<mvo> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<doko> thanks
<ev> thanks!
<bdmurray> thanks
<nuclearbob> howdy everybody
<nuclearbob> who's here for the qa meeting?
<nuclearbob> I see charlie-tca, hggdh, jibel, and pedro_
 * pedro_ waves
<nuclearbob> and Ursinha, but greyed out
<nuclearbob> bdmurray's also greyed out
<nuclearbob> I guess we can go ahead and get started
<nuclearbob> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Wed Oct  5 17:05:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is nuclearbob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<nuclearbob> only previous action I have is nuclearbob chairing the next meeting, so I think we can check that off
<nuclearbob> if there's nothing else, we'll proceed to the next topic
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Efforts/Testing
<nuclearbob> jibel, anything on this?
<Ursinha> nuclearbob, I'm here!
<nuclearbob> groovy
<nuclearbob> got anything on community efforts/testing?
<Ursinha> not me
<nuclearbob> all right
<nuclearbob> I guess we're counting down to the Oneiric release at this point
<nuclearbob> the last report on that seems to be the same one we had last week:
<nuclearbob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricBeta2TestReport
<nuclearbob> If nobody else has anything on that, we can move to the next topic
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Automated/Systems Testing
<nuclearbob> still doing qrt over here, I'll try to get that blueprint registered this week
<nuclearbob> I'll bring some proposals for dependency specification on different releases to UDS so we can determine the best way to move forward
<nuclearbob> jibel had a pretty boot speed chart for us last week, anything new this week on the automation front?
<nuclearbob> sounds like not, so we'll move on
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
 * Ursinha has nothing to report, was on holidays
<nuclearbob> hggdh, Ursinha, pedro_, or bdummary, do any of you have anything here?
<Ursinha> ..
<pedro_> nope nothing from here
<pedro_> ..
<Ursinha> bdmurray, ^
<nuclearbob> derp
<Ursinha> :P
<nuclearbob> sounds like nothing earthshaking to report
<nuclearbob> so let's move on
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Other Topics
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<nuclearbob> doesn't seem like we have any other topics
<Ursinha> the quietest meeting ever
<nuclearbob> I guess we can move to the next topic
<nuclearbob> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Chair Selection
<pedro_> I can do that
<nuclearbob> select the chair, or chair?
<pedro_> chair the next meeting
<Ursinha> :P
<nuclearbob> all right
<pedro_> is about time i guess :-)
<nuclearbob> #action pedto_ to chair next meeting
<meetingology`> ACTION: pedto_ to chair next meeting
<nuclearbob> er
<nuclearbob> #action pedr\o_ to chair next meeting
<meetingology`> ACTION: pedr\o_ to chair next meeting
<nuclearbob> dangit
<pedro_> cool so not me :-)
<nuclearbob> #action pedro_ to chair next meeting
<meetingology`> ACTION: pedro_ to chair next meeting
<pedro_> darn
<nuclearbob> I need a smaller enter key
<pedro_> lol
<nuclearbob> anyway, I think that wraps it up for this week
<nuclearbob> thanks everybody
<Ursinha> thanks nuclearbob for chairing :)
<nuclearbob> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed Oct  5 17:26:12 2011 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-05-17.05.moin.txt
<pedro_> nuclearbob, thanks for chairing !
<nuclearbob> no problem
<nuclearbob> not a lot of people seem to show up when I do, so it's been easy so far
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-06
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  6 14:59:20 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20111006
<janimo> hi
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
 * davidm waves
<ogra_> i dont think we need to look at specs for O
 * NCommander waves back
<NCommander> Yeah
<ogra_> lets use the time at the end to look at ÃP specs instead
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
 * davidm is upset that the HTC Flyer pricing was a mistake
<NCommander> ogra_: I have nothing drafted for a meeting on it. We can do that next week
<NCommander> server side, I have nothing new to report
<ogra_> NCommander, we need to have the drafts registered by next week
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm aware.
<ogra_> so we need to discuss them today
<ogra_> at least who adds which
<NCommander> ogra_: then I'd appericate it if you had asked me to bring it up before the meeting or even put it on the agenda.
<ogra_> (and i doubt we have anything beyond banshee to discuss at all anyway)
<ogra_> NCommander, will do next time, but that doesnt change the deadline now :)
<ogra_> and you just said you are aware
<NCommander> ogra_: we have the P Blueprints page, and we've gone over it in this meeting before.
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> who registers and drafts which one then ?
<ogra_> i assume david will not do all he has assigned
<NCommander> I'm drafting all the ARM server ones and will assign them after UDS after discussions with the team
<GrueMaster> sigh.  Can we stick to the agenda?  I have added Blueprints to the meeting wiki.
<ppisati> NCommander: anything kernel related?
<ogra_> GrueMaster, thanks !
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel status
<NCommander> ppisati: not to my knowledge, anything to report?
<ogra_> yes, lets stick to the agenda, i didnt mean to start a discussion (since i thought it was clear we have to do it today)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<janimo> no new ac100 either, I was kind of hoping upstream fixes speaker sound - ongoing
<ppisati> NCommander: nope, that's why i was asking
<ogra_> janimo, its fixed :)
<ogra_> janimo, see #ac100
<ogra_> janimo, time for a zero day SRU i'd say ;)
<ogra_> (after some testing)
<janimo> ogra_, well, marvin says one more patch is pening
<janimo> pending
<ogra_> k
<infinity> If the patchset is small, I'd accept it today. :P
<infinity> But 0-day works too.
<ogra_> ppisati, xranby reported stability issues on omap4
<ogra_> i assume GrueMaster doesnt do many heavy load tests so that went unnoticed it seems
<janimo> indeed, would be nice to have it for release
<ogra_> janimo, ++
<ppisati> ogra_: i'll ping him
<ogra_> great, there should also be a bug open already
<GrueMaster> ogra_: I haven't been able to get past the installer on dailys.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, yeah, thats what i mean :)
<ppisati> omap4?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> panda
<ppisati> uhm
<ppisati> on cdimage i don't see any daily for omap (that is not a preinstalled one)
<infinity> ppisati: All our images are preinstalled.
<NCommander> except netboot
<ppisati> btw, today i reinstalled an omap4 preinstalled and it was ok
<GrueMaster> ppisati:The installer I am referring to is oem-config.  It is part of Ubiquity.
<ogra_> great to hear !
<ppisati> but yes, couldn;'t get ubiquity to start
<GrueMaster> And is part of every preinstalled image.
<infinity> ppisati: Couldn't get it to start?
<ppisati> nope
<ppisati> crash
<infinity> ppisati: Was there a bug filed?
<ppisati> infinity: didn't check, i thought there was something wrong on my side
<infinity> Possibly.
<ppisati> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity
<ppisati> but it seems there are quite a bit open
<ppisati> bugs
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> banshee ! :)
<ogra_> so lets make a decision ... since RC doesnt happen today we have a bit wiggle room
<NCommander> GrueMaster: and I did some work on finding the root of the crash and some workaround attempts Allailed
<GrueMaster> Sadly, it builds.  It even installs.
<ogra_> NCommander, GrueMaster do you see any chance for a fix (even an SRU) in time ?
<NCommander> ogra_: I say we ship withe banshee despite the breakge. Changing el seeds is el suidice IMHO at this point
<ogra_> if not i'll change the seeds right after meeting
<ogra_> NCommander, i have approval and RB was tested
<NCommander> ogra_: I think the odds are on par with you quitting smoking:-/
<davidm> what is the status  on banshee
<davidm> I don't want to ship broken as it could be months for an SRU
<ogra_> i only want to ship banshee if there are realistic chances that we can get a fix
<GrueMaster> RB doesn't support ubuntuone from what I could tell.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: it should
<ogra_> davidcalle, i'll happily ship it broken if i can get a word from NCommander that there is a chance for a zero day SRU or some such
<NCommander> RB support predated bansheesupport
<GrueMaster> The banshee issue feels like a missing package or setting issue.
<davidm> It does not but I don't care working player beats broken player with unknown repair
<ogra_> if thats clearly impossible lets drop it
<NCommander> the less dependence on a framework known to be dodgy on ARM, the happiler I am
<ogra_> so its all based on michaels judgement
<NCommander> ogra_: you gotapproval to ship RB. Make it happen
<davidm> NCommander, what is the likely hood of a fix by next Thursday?
<ogra_> and since he said that i would stop smoking before it gets fixyed ...
 * ogra_ lights a cigarette and opens a terminal in the seeds dir :)
<NCommander> davidm: Unlikely. Its crashing in pure mono code, and I've yet to get mdb to work properly under ARM
<NCommander> davidm: nor has GrueMaster managed to getone going throguh MonoDevelop
<ogra_> yeah, lets keep banshee for P :)
<ogra_> how about ftbfs beyond banshee ?
<GrueMaster> davidm: The fix could happen as early as today or as late as it takes.  In my opinion, it is not an easy nut to crack, even with debugging symbols.
<davidm> OK then lets pursue RB for release, and fix banshee later if at all possible
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> or concentrate on having a rock solid banshee in P
<ogra_> and dont waste time on O
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> they build and work
<ogra_> for everyone bug GrueMaster
<GrueMaster> For most people.
<ogra_> s/bug/but even
<janimo> mx5 is very slow though
<ogra_> janimo, how is mx5 ?
<ogra_> heh, snap
<GrueMaster> I have yet to get through oem-config without it respawning several times.
<janimo> everyone who tested it says the same
<ogra_> well, it installs and its a "tech preview"
<GrueMaster> on omap4.
<janimo> GrueMaster, for me once it respanwed was the sign the system was installed
<janimo> but hmm, maybe not ocnsistently
<ogra_> janimo, that doesnt help
<janimo> I know
<GrueMaster> I believe the mx5 issues are swap related.  I seemed to get a bit better performance once I had a working swapfile.
<ogra_> since you still have jasper and ubiquity installed then
<GrueMaster> And no user account some of the time.
<janimo> GrueMaster, but it has ~800Mb of RAM no? The beagle was snappier with less RAM
<ogra_> GrueMaster, oh, intresting
<ogra_> that indicates that it breaks reaqlly really early
<GrueMaster> janimo: I thought it only had 512
<infinity> 868432
<ogra_> bug 868432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 868432 in SchoolTool Gradebook "â¢ one of Worksheets view or Worksheet's title edit view show unstranslated value " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868432
<infinity> ogra_: No, that was the amount of RAM on an mx53loco. :P
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> NCommander, move ?
<GrueMaster> On my system, last time I tried an image it failed to load the panel and several other issues until I had a working swapfile.
<infinity> Well, swap is back on again.
<ogra_> well, swap should be back
<GrueMaster> I'll test today's image in a bit.
<NCommander> [tpic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> we
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
<GrueMaster> I have spent most of the week tracking down the banshee issue.  I have ruled out possible SMP issues and for the most part, mono core and addons work from what I can tell by running other apps.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: anything tobring up
<GrueMaster> I have also been trying to get some feedback from banshee developers on the #banshee channel on irc.gnome.org.
<GrueMaster> Will continue on those tracks today.
<NCommander> k anything else?
<GrueMaster> Daily image for today just booted through oem-config for me (and there was much rejoicing).
<GrueMaster> Although there is a crash report I'll need to look at.
<GrueMaster> Is unity-2d supposed to use the same settings as Unity for hiding the panel?  If so - fail.
<GrueMaster> crash appears to be oem-config.  Maybe I'll have something useful to report on it.finally.
<ogra_> i think the default is "2" in dconf-editor
<ogra_> not sure which hide behavior that sets :P
<ogra_> but there should be a description in the editor
<GrueMaster> Ugh.  Can't report crash on oem-config because libgtk2.0-0 is out of date.
<GrueMaster> There was no description in gconf-editor for that key.
<ogra_> dconf...
<ogra_> gconf is dead
<GrueMaster> At least none that I saw.
<GrueMaster> ok
<GrueMaster> Will look later.
<ogra_> if you still have gconf settings anywhere thats a bug
<GrueMaster> Nothing else here.
<infinity> Once this new apt builds, I might spin a new set of images.
<infinity> Installer performance will seem a bit snappier.
<infinity> For a 6 minute period or so that update-apt-xapian-index isn't killing your SD in the background. :P
<GrueMaster> I would ask that everyone on the team with a working panda please try to do some testing with the daily desktop image.  I am seeing too many crashes for a good release.
 * ogra_ didnt see any in the last image he tested
<ogra_> that was a few days after beta
<GrueMaster> Hence why I said "daily".  Beta was 2 weeks ago.
<infinity> Oh, we need to get on ndec's case about the ti-omap-extras stuff actually existing for oneiric.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, yes, i tested a dail
<ogra_> y
<ogra_> as i said
<ogra_> a few days after ...
<GrueMaster> today's daily.  A lot of packages have changed in the last two weeks.
<ogra_> sure
<ppisati> 6th Oct daily + morning dist-upgrade = ubiquity crash (at least here)
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
<GrueMaster> Just filed bug 869284.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 869284 in geoclue (Ubuntu) "geoclue-master crashed with signal 5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869284
 * rsalveti waves
<ogra_> i think i saw evan talk about that issue today
<rsalveti> not much to report from the Linaro side this week, besides the planning for the 11.10 cycle
<rsalveti> https://launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+milestone/11.10
<rsalveti> jcrigby pushed the fix for bug 867670 and bug 867650
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867670 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP 4460 based pandas run too hot at current operating point" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867650 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP4 eMMC support is missing" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867650
<rsalveti> but as SRU
<rsalveti> still in progress
<ogra_> rsalveti, how is the move to oneiric going ?
<infinity> rsalveti: I need to talk to him about that.
<infinity> rsalveti: But the fixes he pushed looked entirely suitable for release.
<rsalveti> ogra_: we're still blocked with bugs at the linaro-image-tools
<ogra_> :(
<rsalveti> infinity: is it critical enough for the releasE?
<rsalveti> ogra_: but we expect to have working images next week
<ogra_> we too :)
<infinity> rsalveti: Did we not want 4460 to work with oneiric images?
<rsalveti> I'll also make sure the unity3d packages are in place, so we can demonstrate it with oneiric + latest sgx packages
<infinity> rsalveti: It's not like we're respinning images post-release.
 * ogra_ hugs rsalveti 
<ogra_> rsalveti, if you need me for PPA copying or anything, ping me
<ogra_> (for 3D)
<rsalveti> infinity: yeah, there's one issue for 4460 that might be important for the release
<rsalveti> ogra_: sure, I'll let you know when I get it all working
<infinity> rsalveti: The overheating one, at least.  But I thought I saw another.
<rsalveti> but I should be able to have a PPA for that
<infinity> rsalveti: Still, the installer setting your board on fire is bad enough. :P
<rsalveti> infinity: yup :-)
<rsalveti> infinity: let's talk about this at #ubuntu-arm then
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, they eventually need to end up in the ti ppa
<GrueMaster> meh.  Self-heating.
<rsalveti> ogra_: oh, that's fine by me, thought we would like a separated ppa for that
<ogra_> well, winter is near in the northern hemisphere ... probably the pandas know that ;)
<rsalveti> once I have the packages all working I'll let you know, then we can make sure it lands at the proper ppa
 * GrueMaster looks outside.  Near?
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, whatever works, effectively panda is the only thing we can run it on atm
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra_> so it makes sense to put it in the TI one i think
<rsalveti> sure, and it's already enabled by default once you installed the sgx drivers
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> that's all from my side
<ogra_> NCommander, move
<rsalveti> next week I should have all the planning for connect/uds in place
<rsalveti> at least from my side
<ogra_> NCommander, move !
<ogra_> time is running out and we need to get the specs assigned
<ogra_> davidm, did you see the recent additions to the spec ideas page ?
 * ogra_ gets the feeling he talks to an empty room
 * rsalveti is still around, but not important anymore
<davidm> ogra_, nope have not
<davidm> I'll have a look
<ogra_> davidcalle, see the two smagoun buts at the bottom
<ogra_> that looks like linaro material
<NCommander> [topic blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: blueprints
<ogra_> so NCommander said he'd take all server specs and have them registered next week
<NCommander> [chair] ogra_
<meetingology> Current chairs: NCommander ogra_
<ogra_> infinity, are you taking the HF spec ?
 * infinity looks.
<ogra_> since you do the work i guess ...
<infinity> But I imagine I am.  Didn't know there was one. :P
<ogra_> it just says armhf _)
<infinity> Ahh.  Kay.
<infinity> Yeah, I'll take that.
 * ogra_ still doesnt know what "linaro arm boot " is supposed to mean
<ogra_> davidm, can we skip that one until its clear what it means ?
<ogra_> then we have "ARM ISO install for non-mmc hardware"
<infinity> Does smagoun realize that an emulated live-build is likely to be slower than the real thing?
<ogra_> who wants that ? i suspect its just d-i images
<janimo> ogra_, I think that means 'arm boot speed'
<ogra_> infinity, i think he doesnt want qemu, they used it in the past
<ogra_> janimo, linaro arm boot ?
<infinity> ogra_: He has to have qemu.
<ogra_> janimo, do you want to take it ?
<janimo> ogra_, yes. I think so
<infinity> ogra_: His packages won't magically install on x86.
<ogra_> and find out if thats true ?
<janimo> ogra_, well it is a postponed one from O so I guess I'll do something related still
<ogra_> infinity, well, qemu-arm-static ...
<infinity> ogra_: Still qemu.
<ogra_> janimo, a postponed one ?
<infinity> ogra_: Anyhow, I should probably take smagoun's specs, so I can shoot them down as crack.
<ogra_> oh, yours
<ogra_> indeed
<janimo> ogra_, yes
<ogra_> infinity, well, one is clearly linaro
<davidm> infinity, unless smagoun is going to do the work
<ogra_> the package cross build stuff was already discussed art ubuntu-devel
<ogra_> which he apparently doesnt read, else he could have participated :)
<ogra_> davidm, do we expect achiang to work on the spec he proposed ?
<ogra_> i think he is oem
<ogra_> else one of us has to take the firefox elfhack one
<infinity> I think our time's up.
<ogra_> well, that doesnt go anywhere here, lets adjourn, i'll assign specs that have no owner
 * ogra_ thinks him holding monologues to the team with only infinity participating is a waste of time
<ogra_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  6 16:02:49 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-06-14.59.moin.txt
<skaet> ogra_, is bug 803752 still going to land?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803752 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "jasper needs to support preseed files " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803752
<ogra_> skaet, nope, i thought i had closed it
 * ogra_ does so now ... preseeding is supported, just not preseed files
<davidm> ogra_, I hope achiang will step up if not likely the task will not get scheduled
<ogra_> k
<skaet> ogra_ thanks.  Also,  what about ac100 tarball installer.
<skaet> ?
<davidm> just because there is an idea, no matter how good does not mean we do it.
<skaet> bug 856278?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856278 in ac100-tarball-installer (Ubuntu Oneiric) "installation mode from SD card to USB key fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856278
<ogra_> skaet, ?? what about it ??
<ogra_> skaet, ah, thats a special case
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> (sorry lagging here)
<ogra_> i can release note it, the majority of people installs to internal
<skaet> fair enough.   thanks,  just trying to get my lists pared down.  ;)
<kees> o/
 * stgraber waves
 * pitti says hello
<pitti> seems the "chair: sabdfl" is obsolete, Mark already sent his apologies and he isn't an official board member any more anyway
<pitti> seems the brainstorm review is now done, thanks cjwatson
<pitti> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/ubuntu/2011-10-06-brainstorm-review.html
<pitti> no community bugs either
<pitti> I didn't see anything on the ML, did I miss something?
<wendar> ARB
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001100.html
<pitti> is a new one
<pitti> hey wendar
<wendar> hi
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  6 18:04:34 2011 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pitti> #topic recruiting new members for the ARB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: recruiting new members for the ARB
<pitti> I admit I haven't read it yet, shall we allow some minutes to read/digest it?
<pitti> (release crunch, sorry0
<ScottK> I've always found the lack of a requirement to be a developer troubling.
<kees> ScottK: "evidence of activity" isn't really as strong as _being_ a developer
<pitti> I find that a bit troublesome as well; being able to spot problems in these packages requires at least some packaging experience
<wendar> we've talked about that, in the current group, and generally assume that we will make it a requirement in the future, so for this cycle we looked for applicants who are Ubuntu developers
<pitti> hopefully this will be ensured by the voting/application process, but perhaps it could be made explicit? that an applicant should at least be a PPU?
<ScottK> I find it particularly troubling given it's enabled in the default install.
<stgraber> pitti: member of ~ubuntu-dev should match all PPU/MOTU/Core-dev (unless we forgot to add some members to that team)
<wendar> the only reason we haven't already made it a requirement, is that we're unsure how to handle the fact that half the current ARB aren't Ubuntu Developers, and we're already hurting for bodies
<pitti> aside from that the proposal seems straightforward and clear to me
<wendar> but, we could make it a requirement now, with a transition plan
<pitti> wendar: is that becuase these members aren't generally interested in Ubuntu packaging? do they want to become ubuntu devs?
<wendar> I certainly do :)
<wendar> I'm pretty sure the other ARB member does too
<kees> how about making it policy now, but allow for existing members to be allowed with the stated intention that they are working towards dev?
<ScottK> I'm fine with that.
<wendar> sounds good
<pitti> the requirements to these packages are quite a bit different to 'ordinary' packages, with /opt and all that, but one should at least be familiar with packagign basics
<pitti> kees: that sounds good; I certainly don't intend to invalidate the current board
<pitti> so the proposal is
<pitti> - Ubuntu membership
<pitti> + https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev membership
 * kees nods
<ScottK> Is Ubuntu membership required for PPU?
<pitti> stgraber: WDYT?
<stgraber> pitti: +1
<ScottK> As long as Ubuntu membership is required for PPU, I think that's good.
<pitti> ah, I'm fine with making that explicit and just have both requirements
<pitti> ScottK: technically I think ubuntu membership is a consequence of being in ubuntu-dev
<stgraber> also, all 3 current applicants we (as in ARB) have on our list are members of ~ubuntu-dev
<Daviey> Hmm, i thought PPU was an avenue to get membership?
<pitti> but I'm not entirely sure whether the DMB requires that as a prerequisite, or grants it together with PPU
<Daviey> (via ~ubuntu-dev?)
<stgraber> IIRC we (as in DMB this time) simply grant it by giving PPU
<pitti> that was my impression, too
<ScottK> Not a point worth spending a lot of time on then.
<pitti> wendar: so, are you okay with adding ~ubuntu-dev membership as a requirement?
<wendar> yup, reload the page
<pitti> wendar: heh, says ~ubuntu-de
<pitti> I'm afraid teaching everyone to speak German is a little too much effort
<wendar> :)
<wendar> edited again
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> #vote TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing
<meetingology> Please vote on: TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pitti> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pitti
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<pitti> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<pitti> we only have bare minimum quorum today, but my feeling is that this is pretty unanimous
<stgraber> (sorry, was looking through the list of ~ubuntumembers)
<pitti> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pitti> I'll reply on the TB list, and other TB members can then weigh in
<pitti> wendar: thanks!
<wendar> thanks all!
<pitti> #topic next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next chair
<pitti> we usually follow alphabetically, which would be soren
<kees> alphabetically? yup.
<pitti> but as he hasn't been in any meeting yet, I propose that we skip him this time
<kees> stgraber: ready to chair the next one? :)
<stgraber> sure
<pitti> stgraber: do you want to chair the next one? I can guide you to what to do after the meeting
<stgraber> pitti: that'd be great
<kees> heh
<pitti> oh, these hundreds of hours on the typewriter and pasting stamps
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> nothing else from me; stgraber, kees, wendar, ScottK?
<ScottK> Nope.
<stgraber> nope
<wendar> nope
<ScottK> Not unless you want an off the cuff sru exception request
<ScottK> I'd like to keep uploading postifx bug fixes post-release, but didn't have time to prepare anything.
<kees> pitti: nothing from me
<ScottK> This is the upstream that says, "We don't have a bug tracker because we don't leave known issues unfixed." and does it.
<pitti> ScottK: is there usually something in them which goes beyond a mere aggregation of individual "we want these" fixes?
<pitti> #topic postgres SRUs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: postgres SRUs
<pitti> erk
<pitti> #topic postfix SRUs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: postfix SRUs
<pitti> silly autofingers :)
<ScottK> Yes.  There's two primary upstream developers who have a strong vision for the product.
<ScottK> Most bug reports turn into "Where in the documentation does it promise it's supposed to work that way?"
<pitti> one thing that we need to fix there first are the eternal debconf questions on upgrade which potentially destroy your config (haven't checked, I always just say "no config")
<ScottK> So it's very strongly spec'ed.
<Daviey> Shouldn't lamont be in this discussion?
<ScottK> lamont and I have discussed it.
<ScottK> pitti: I don't recall those being an issue in a long time (I don't get the questions)
<pitti> ScottK: so do you think the problem is that there are changes which are debatable, or that the problem is on the validation side?
<pitti> ScottK: oh, wow; maybe I should file a bug then, I get them everytime
<ScottK> Users have an expectation of how an MTA should work and they are often wrong.
<ScottK> Post-release, postfix sticks to not changing functionality based on it's extensive documentation.
<ScottK> They are very, very picky about it.
<pitti> i. e. you want to establish a permanent microrelease exception for postfix?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> If they are happy with it, it is very safe for us.
<lamont> I would support that
<pitti> so I assume this is for not verifying all changes individually, but have a way to regression-test the entire update
<ScottK> Upstream regression tests the upstream code before releasing.
<pitti> kees: how much coverage does the qa-regression-test bzr have for postfix?
<ScottK> I think we need to mostly make sure the packaging works and there's nothing major wrong.
<kees> pitti: it's fair, let me double check
<pitti> we still need some amount of testing the actually installed package, to guard against misbuilds, packaging errors, etc.
<lamont> pitti: every regression I have seen in a micro-release update of postfix has been introduced by the debian/ubuntu packaging
<ScottK> I've been backporting postfix for a long time and I've never had an issue.
<pitti> lamont: yes, that's what I'm concerned about :)
<lamont> ScottK: I've never had an issue with Wietse's work.  my own is the only concern
<pitti> we had the weirdest things in SRUs, no-change uploads breakign completely, and the like
<ScottK> That's generally obvious in the normal level of SRU testing we do.
<lamont> pitti: fwiw, that has usually been me adding in my own other bugfixes and getting it wrong
<lamont> when I just grab the latest upstream and stuff, it's always been beauty
<kees> pitti: mostly it tests authentication mechanisms and basic delivery/forwarding
<ScottK> My view is that if that works, it's 99.9% good.
<pitti> kees: qa-regression bzr is integration testing on the actually installed .debs, right?
<kees> pitti: correct
<pitti> kees: is there any existing wiki documentation how to run this? or do we need a special page for postfix?
<kees> pitti: it expects packages to be installed, but does its own configuration manipulations to attempt various auth methods and delivery methods
<pitti> if we could just link to it on the MRE page, that'd be good
<kees> pitti: there is no general docs on running the tests, no, but there is a pretty common methodology to it, and each test is documented on how to run it in the header comments
<ScottK> I've never had a problem figuring them out from the comments.
<pitti> I'm using postfix both on server as well as on my workstations, and never really had a problem with it except those annoying debconf prompts, I'm fairly convinced of its quality
<pitti> kees: right, I mostly mean where to get it, how to run it, etc.
<pitti> as long as the proposer of the SRU (lamont/ScottK) know how to run it, it's fine for me
<pitti> lamont, ScottK: ^ do you?
<lamont> I know how to tell ScottK to run it.
<kees> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/qa-regression-testing/master/view/head:/scripts/test-postfix.py
<ScottK> I didn't run the postfix one before, but I run the clamav one all the time.
<ScottK> I'm sure it's not an issue.
<pitti> my gut feeling is that an MRE is fine, provided that validation entails running the upstream regression tests (which already is done by upstream), and the existing integration tests
<pitti> lamont: delegation FTW!
<lamont> pitti: to be fair, my normal approach to postfix is to take the latest upstream, build it, install it, send email, and upload.  If I actually do any work, that's when I get all pedantic about testing it, ever since I broke it that one time
<pitti> ScottK: is there a pending microrelease which we would SRU?
<ScottK> yes.
<ScottK> There's a backports request pending that we'd direct at -proposed instead.
<pitti> so perhaps we could do this as a model case, see how much changes these carry, and how validation works, etc.
 * kees nods
<stgraber> sounds good
<pitti> but in general I'm fine with this proposal; upstream's stable policy and regression testing is certainly appropriate for our SRU criteria
<ScottK> It would be -proposed for natty only.
<ScottK> Lucid/Maverick released with 2.7, so those will still go to backports.
<pitti> ah, no 2.7.x updates any more?
<ScottK> There are some of those I'll need to go back and look at too.
<pitti> then I'm even less concerned
<pitti> most postfixes which really matter certainly run on LTSes
<ScottK> No, we can do them too, just referring to the current backport request.
<pitti> but doing this on natty now gives us a nice trial period for precise
<ScottK> So we'd keep 2.7 up to date in -proposed for lucid and 2.8 in backports.
<pitti> ScottK: can we try that SRU once, and when it's done, come back to TB and discuss the general MRE when we all have more experience how that worked?
<ScottK> OK.
<pitti> I'm sure it will be okay, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with saying "+1" before seeing it in action
<pitti> might just be me being a wimp, of course
<pitti> kees, stgraber: WDYT?
<kees> right, I prefer SRU history, then MRE
<pitti> I'm signing up for reviewing that SRU
<kees> but this looks to be a good trajectory
<ScottK> I'm fine with this.
<pitti> nice
<stgraber> trying with one SRU osunds good
<stgraber> *sounds
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> going once..
<pitti> going twice..
<pitti> sold!
<pitti> thanks everyone, have a good night!
<stgraber> thanks pitti!
<pitti> will send notes / update report. etc. now
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  6 18:46:12 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-06-18.04.moin.txt
<pitti> wow, nice report
<kees> thanks pitti!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-07
<pitti> hello
 * stgraber waves
 * skaet waves
<jibel> o/
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct  7 15:00:34 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * joshuahoover waves
 * charlie-tca waves
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-10-07
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> We're in Final Freeze for Main and the Seeded Universe.  Thank you for all the fixes that have been submitted over this last week!  :)   We've got dry run images up on the iso tester,  and are in the final stretch.   Only high/critical fixes necessary to release that can't be SRU'd will be accepted now.    If you discover a problem that fits that criteria, please join us in #ubuntu-release and start the discussion.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Plan for the next week:
<skaet> Today/Tomorrow - Testing of dry images, and selective respins as requested by product managers/release team.
<skaet> Sunday - everything gets marked offical and we try for the candidate image builds and populate the ISO tracker
<skaet> Monday - testing and analysis of any issues found.
<skaet> Tuesday - testing and analysis, release notes,  unseeded universe freeze at 1200 UTC
<skaet> Wednesday - testing and analysis, release notes,  checklist run throughs
<skaet> Thursday - 11.10 Release
<skaet> #LINK http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-mgr-o-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> has the bugs we're trying to drive down to 0
<skaet> Would also like to request all the flavor product leads take a pass through
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<skaet> and confirm the details are accurate for their images
<skaet> .after testing reports today,  request for the team during the round table is:
<skaet> 1) any known release blocker bug to fix prior to Sunday?
<skaet> 2) which 0 day SRU's are in plan?
<skaet> .
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around...  not seeing any hands
<skaet> heading into round table then.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> [Week 40 Testing Report]
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week40_2011.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes - has been fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> gearing up for the 11.10 release and the cert testing that will follow
<mlegris> Also, No to 1 and 2 :)
<skaet> :)
<mlegris> Any questions?
<mlegris> Seeing none
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris,  glad there's nothing on your blocker list.  :)
<mlegris> np skaet
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> = Pre-release images smoke testing =
<jibel> * Upgrade:
<jibel> Ubuntu Desktop/Server i386|amd64: Passed
<jibel> Automatic Upgrade Testing almost white (mythbuntu failed)
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel> * Installation:
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Desktop USB i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel> randomly affected by bug 769359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 769359 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Out of memory error when running Live CD prevents installation from completing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769359
<jibel>   * Wubi i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Alternate i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Server i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel> automated test is randomly affected by bug 818177, a restart of the system shows that it installed correctly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Precise) "boot failures because 'udevadm exit' does not kill udevd worker threads" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<jibel>   * Netboot Desktop, Desktop USB and Server tasks: Passed
<jibel> Testcases not reviewed yet:
<jibel> * Desktop: LTSP, CJK, Screen-reader,  amd64+mac
<jibel> * Server: RAID, Encypted LVM, iSCSI
<jibel> List of bugs reported:
<jibel> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
<jibel> = Boot speed =
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
<jibel> it is stable
<jibel> ..
<jibel> questions ?
<skaet> Thanks jibel!   much appreciated!
<skaet> looks like both issues are known, and we'll be keeping fingers crossed nothing else shows up.
<cjwatson> I think in practice 769359 is probably a bug somewhere else, depending on what process got killed
<cjwatson> installs just inherently use more memory to start with due to running from a live CD, and so ubiquity tends to get victimised by this
<cjwatson> (it's not the *most* memory-compact of programs itself, but ...)
<mvo> fwiw, the failure of mythubuntu is a false postive
<mvo> (in the auto-upgrade-tester)
<jibel> and I forgot, wubi upgrade is not tested yet.
<skaet> jibel,  fix for 818177 was in discussion last night,  expect to pick it up if we re-spin server before Sunday.
<skaet> jibel,  ack, re: wubi
 * skaet looks around,  not seeing any more comments,  moving on
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand or micahg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand or micahg
<jibel> k, we'll need a respin of desktop for today's unity and lightdm uploads
<skaet> jibel,  so it seems.   ping you when its done.
 * skaet not seeing jdstrand,  moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Final is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> Yesterday we uploaded a new linux-meta-3.0.0-12.14 to resolve some missing meta-packages.  This morning we also uploaded a new linux-3.0.0-12.20 kernel to resolve unmet install dependency issues for linux-image-extra.  We uploaded to -proposed as a safety precaution in case it takes too long to build.  It will be copied to the release pocket should it finish building in time, else it'll be promoted to -updates as a day 0.
<ogasawara>  Also, with kernel.org coming back online, upstream stable v3.0.5 and v3.0.6 were released.  We've queued these stable updates for the first Oneiric kernel SRU.  We are currently below both of our final milestone and overall burndown charts.  The remaining 2 work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the remaining bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #480444 - Needs further investigation.
<ogasawara> #710733 - Package is for debug purposes, not release critical.
<ogasawara> #714862 - Assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #746133 - Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #754711 - On a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  further invetigation required.
<ogasawara> #758486 - Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #761082 - Confirmed against Oneiric, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #790712 - The order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #814325 - Issue confirmed upstream, further investigation required.
<ogasawara> #831954 - Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #836250 - Assigned to kernel dev, performance tests indicate environmental factors.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!   you've answered my 2 questions in your summary.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Bug 818177: partial workaround being tested in a PPA, may require upload prior to Sunday
<cjwatson> Bug 854837: some debug output acquired, may or may not help, probably not a showstopper
<cjwatson> Bug 853688: remaining piece in command-not-found not critical, -> updates
<cjwatson> Important bugs elsewhere:
<cjwatson> Bug 572128 in Launchpad has arisen as a regression due to the multiarch-translations work last cycle; working on getting this sorted out pre-release to avoid having to republish later
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!  bugs noted.
<skaet> anyone have questions?
<cjwatson> oh, s/last cycle/this cycle/ in my last line there, sorry
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> bug 801494 - Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes - Suspect related to other udev issues, which foundations are investigating
<Daviey> bug 850880 - cobbler-ubuntu-import does not pull from -updates - Assigned to adam who is travelling until Eow, it's touching a universe package so not a huge rush.
<Daviey> bug 838581 - Failures in db_pool code: 'NoneType' object has no attribute '_keymap' or not returning rows. - will be in next nova upload
<Daviey> bug 803488 - [Oneiric] Load xen_blkback and xen_netback on startup
<Daviey>  - Need to confirm the fix (univese package)
<Daviey> Really, i think we are looking OK.
<Daviey> I don't think there is anything urgent that we need to touch a main package for at the current time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<Daviey> RC - might proove otherwise.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850880 in cobbler (Ubuntu Oneiric) "cobbler-ubuntu-import does not pull from -updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850880
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838581 in nova (Ubuntu) "Failures in db_pool code: 'NoneType' object has no attribute '_keymap' or not returning rows." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803488 in xen-common (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] Load xen_blkback and xen_netback on startup" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803488
<Daviey> The udev bug(s), which foundations are looking at is causing concern.
<Daviey> ..
<Daviey> tap tap, is this thing on?
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!
<Daviey> \o/
<skaet> yup,  just looking up some of the bugs.
<Daviey> Questions?
<skaet> what bugs fixes do you want to trigger respins before Sunday?
<skaet> 818177,  xen-linux-system - are the two that I've noted.
<skaet> am I missing something?
<Daviey> I'm not sure we have any which we need to do TBH.
<Daviey> There might be a tweak to the cobbler enlistment tool... (no bug))
<Daviey> but otherwise, thigns we NEED to do - seem to be complete
<Daviey> If the dev issue(s) are solved before then, i'd uite like a respin :)
<Daviey> s/dev/udev/
<skaet> Daviey,  fair enough.   thanks.
<skaet> Daviey,  how do the cloud images look?
<Daviey> Great!
<Daviey> i think they have had more exposure this cycle.
<skaet> good to hear.  :)
<Daviey> things were noticed earlier, i think.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update - ogra_
<ogra_> GRR, if the unity launcher wouldnt always move in front of me i could actually paste ...
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  * Team focus is on image testing this and next week
<ogra_>  * Banshee was finally dropped yesterday, there seems to be no fix in sight atm, bug is still being researched but we didnt want to risk the release
<ogra_>  * There was one uboot upload to fix an overheating problem on OMAP 4460, so that oneiric images will work on the new panda platforms.
<ogra_>  * The partman-uboot issue was not solved, we will release-note that guided partitioning creates to small boot partitions.
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  * Desktop images build
<ogra_>  * Server images are good
<ogra_>  * Netboot images are fine too
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> ha !
<ogra_> copy/paste from a maximized terminal really needs some usability rework :P
 * skaet suggests a bug be opened.... against Precise ;)
<pitti> I just disable the launcher popup on the screen edge, it drives me crazy
<pitti> skaet: believe me, we argued for hours and days -- design decision
<pitti> (in natty already)
<ogra_> yeah
 * jibel hands some stacking issues to ogra_ so the launcher will shows behind windows.
<ogra_> marking something on the top left corner always makes you end up on the launcher ...
<ogra_> jibel, lol
<ogra_> exactly what i need :)
<ogra_> skaet, anyway, not much from arm today, we're in testing mode
<skaet> ogra_ thanks!   suspected that would be the case,  and will keep fingers crossed nothing too critical pops up.
<ogra_> thanks :)
<skaet> any questions for ogra_ ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - fabo
<fabo> = Developer Platform =
<fabo>  * Planning for Linaro 11.10 took most of the week
<fabo>  * Switch to Oneiric based images on-going; several regressions to fix compared to Natty images; server image added;
<fabo>  * New Unity 3D with full GLES support planned to be integrated on Oneiric based images
<fabo>  * John Rigby has pushed fixes for bug 867670 and bug 867650
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867670 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP 4460 based pandas run too hot at current operating point" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867650 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP4 eMMC support is missing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867650
<fabo>  * Marcin has pushed a fix for bug 864591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 864591 in armel-cross-toolchain-base (Ubuntu) "gcc-4.6-arm-linux-gnueabi is uninstallable on Oneiric" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864591
<fabo> ..
<skaet> Thanks fabo!
 * skaet will ask about the  regressions a bit more next week offline.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<fabo> skaet: ok :)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> there are 2 bugs that we have targeted for srus right now:
<joshuahoover> bug 807737 - u1-client file sync - corner case where files can be moved to the trash, fix is ready just needs packaged & uploaded as an sru (in both oneiric and natty)
<joshuahoover> bug 851044  - banshee music store crash - webkit fix for this bug fixes the crash, we'll still release a fix for libu1 as an sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807737 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Oneiric) "LR should not touch the hashes of non-existant MD" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851044 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Banshee.exe crashed with SIGABRT in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID() / while using Ubuntu 1 Store." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851044
<joshuahoover> and one other bug that should be fixed in our packages but could still cause problems due to a bug elsewhere:
<joshuahoover> bug 825280 - t-bird u1 address book - we fixed the authentication related errors in a desktopcouch release & released an update to couchdb-glib as well that provides a fix but we may still see "book backend is opening" errors which are likely due to recent changes in evolution-data-server
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825280 in couchdb (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Repeated Ubuntu One address book errors" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825280
<joshuahoover> ...and that's it
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover!   can that last one be release noted?
<joshuahoover> skaet: yes, i believe so, i'm still personally trying to test it to see if it's an issue
<skaet> thanks!   please let me know the results of your testing.
<joshuahoover> skaet: will do :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update  - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update  - pitti
<pitti> Almost exclusively RC bug fixing and debugging this week. In particular, we fixed several critical issues in lightdm.
<pitti> Landed final langpacks today, not yet on the currently tested images. In particular, this now has the translations for the new ubuntu-docs. This uncovered bug 869815, but that got worked around by some manual hacking.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 869815 in langpack-o-matic "does not properly install mallard help files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869815
<pitti> Cleaned up http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-mgr-o-tracking-bugs.html#desktop -- all but one now have assignees, and closed the duplicate/already fixed ones
<pitti> At this point, all release-tracked bugs on above list/on our radar are SRU candidates and not release blockers (those were fixed in late uploads).
<pitti> Planned 0-day SRUs so far:
<pitti>  * cups (bug 860691 and bug 860498); I'd be happy with uploading it right now (the patch looks safe to me), but as skaet called out a hard freeze now, it's in the -proposed queue for now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860691 in cups (Ubuntu) "cupsd crashed with SIGSEGV in main() straight after boot and then periodically." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860498 in cups (Ubuntu) "cupsd crashed with SIGSEGV in main() : cannot access memory at address 0x7ffffff7" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860498
<pitti> Status of other release targetted bugs is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti,  that answered my questions about the SRUs quite nicely.
<skaet> I'll go in and mark all of the ones on the lists as updates, and Precise targets then.
<pitti> skaet: I think I already did that
<skaet> pitti,  coolio.  :)   is everything in now,  for a respin for jibel?   or do we need to wait for a few things to land?
<pitti> i. e. dropping the ubuntu-11.10 milestone, and moving to -updates
<skaet> yup, that should have done it.
<pitti> skaet: yes from my side, unless we want cups
<pitti> langpacks are all built
<pitti> but cups is by far not a blocker
<pitti> I saw a software-center landing in the queue, though; haven't looked at that yet
<skaet> if cups not a blocker,  prefer to leave it in the 0day SRU bucket at this point.
<skaet> re: software-center.  ok, lets discuss after meeting.
<pitti> skaet: oh, hang on; the current linux build doesn't change anything but the broken dependency, but we might want that on the images, I think
<pitti> (if for nothing else than to test for toolchain regressions and the like)
<skaet> pitti,  yes.  prefer to check while we can.   ok. we'll see when it lands, and decide.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> hello
<dbarth_> report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> point release upload on tuesday
<dbarth_> we have more 0-day sru candidates for compiz & unity, tracked at http://tinyurl.com/6bo5mro (ie the crticals)
<dbarth_> in particular the recent compiz issues reported have a fix in testing
<dbarth_> #869316 and #869919
<dbarth_> ..
<skaet> Thanks for the SRU list,  dbarth_!
<skaet> I'll take a pass through them after the meeting and cross check against the ones I've been tracking.
<dbarth_> ok
<skaet> Is there anything you consider a blocker at this point that can't be fixed with those 0 day SRU ones?
<dbarth_> i've cross checked those as well
<dbarth_> no show stopper that i can spot
<skaet> thanks!  very glad to here it.
<dbarth_> the compiz issues are disappointing, but they can't block you for installing., booting, updating
<skaet> any other questions for dbarth_?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet looks around for ScottK?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> Hi everyone!
<stgraber> Edubuntu still looks good this week.
<stgraber> I've started running upgrade testing yesterday and didn't run into any noticable/unexpected problem, expecting to have these done today.
<stgraber> mvo also just started running auto upgrade testing of Edubuntu! that should save me quite a bit of time, thanks!
 * highvoltage waves
<stgraber> WebLive is now available on Oneiric though not the install-anything function that will still need some more work (but can wait till post-release).
<stgraber> Only bugs found in WebLive so far are: bug 870055 and bug 870061 with the first one being the worst. I hope to have it fixed by release so I can just run a custom unity-2d build.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 870055 in unity-2d "[panel] Menus don't stay open if mouse button is not pressed in a weblive session" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 870061 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-menu crashes the whole session when using NX" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870061
<stgraber> I'll be doing more WebLive testing and fixing on Sunday from London as the latency to the servers is going to be much lower (WebLive is hosted in Germany).
<stgraber> mgariepy will get us new screenshots of everything and I hope to have all the documentation and release anouncement written this weekend so I can just flip the switch on Thursday.
<stgraber> And that's it!
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> Questions?
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!   sounds good.   :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu looks good at this time. Images are sized good again. blueman crashes after the restart, it will probably be fixed with an update. We are not planning 0day SRU's at this time and no blockers today.
<charlie-tca> bug 840094 : I will add it to release notes, users installing from the desktop have no issue. It will only affect those who do not run the live session installer.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<charlie-tca> I should probably say the Xubuntu will be writing separate release notes for the final release. We will be putting in a reference to them in the Ubuntu release notes.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!   That sounds fine re: release notes.
<skaet> glad no blockers on your side.
<charlie-tca> That's not to say they won't mess us up with the latest changes, of course.
 * skaet is keeping her fingers crossed that is not the case.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<gilir> Not much to report this week.
<gilir> Still fighting with bug 854837, still not reproductible and difficult to track.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854837 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Lubuntu live image boots to TTY" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854837
<gilir> Other bugs we are tracking on ISO testing are known issues since a long time on Lubuntu, or minor issues (nothing to block the release).
<gilir> No 0-day SRU planned.
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!
<skaet> Will we be release noting 854837, or still hoping for a fix.
<skaet> ?
<gilir> probably just release noting if I can't reproduce it
<skaet> ack.
<gilir> I plan to test on more hardware to try to reproduce it and give mor einfo
<skaet> good luck.
<gilir> thanks :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU Team update - tumbleweed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> hi. pretty quiet week for MOTU (quite cycle too)
<tumbleweed> nothing big remaining, that I know of, except the vlc sync that still needs review
<tumbleweed> and piles of RC bugs that should probably be review, but we're running out of time on that...
<tumbleweed> ..
<Laney> yeah, please help with http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ if you get bored
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed and Laney.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other business?  comments?   questions?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business?  comments?   questions?
<doko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/P-SeriesOpening
<doko> please add to this page, and prepare packages for next Friday
 * cjwatson takes dpkg from that list
<cjwatson> I'll prepare it in whatever dead time there is at the release spsrint
<cjwatson> *sprint
<skaet> thanks for raising doko. :)
<cjwatson> also next Thursday if you can :-)
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview
<cjwatson> sometimes we manage to do some initial opening on the Thursdday
<rickspencer3> o/
<pitti> cjwatson, doko: I suppose uploads to precise won't work until we release oneriic?
<cjwatson> pitti: pretty sure they won't
<skaet> pitti, that's my belief as well.
<doko> pitti, no, use oneiric ppa's to prepare binaries
<pitti> doko: is there a common one for ~ubuntu-core-dev?
<pitti> which we usually use?
<doko> no
<doko> debhelper build time is not the problem
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview - is open for any bugs you think worth release noting at this point.
<rickspencer3> skaet, can I say something at this point in the meeting?
<pitti> skaet: o/
<skaet> rickspencer3, go.
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to say ..
<rickspencer3> I know everyone is working really hard
<pitti> OMG we're fired
<rickspencer3> and Oneiric is coming in hot hot hot
<rickspencer3> but ...
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> Oneiric is simply the best client OS I have ever used on both of my computers
<rickspencer3> and, the server and juju make we want to start doing web programming again!
<doko> skaet, do you plan to add some developer technical info to this page?
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to say that, because I know that when the Ubuntu community is heads down cranking out releases ...
<rickspencer3> people get close to the problems, and sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees
<rickspencer3> </soapbox>
<rickspencer3> thanks skaet
<skaet> thanks rickspencer3   good to remind us.   :)
<skaet> doko,  if you've got some suggestions, feel free to add.   I'll be doing more passes today, and over the weekend.
<skaet> pitti,  go
<pitti> http://china-images.ubuntu.com/oneiric/daily-live/20111001/ is still oversized
<pitti> forgot to mention in my slot
<pitti> what remains to be done is to build them from main only
<ogra_> rickspencer3, with precise you will  even be able to do your web programming for juju on arm and save the environment !
<pitti> that'll downsize them by 21 MB and get them in shape
<rickspencer3> thanks ogra_ ;)
<pitti> need to coordinate with cjwatson, it just somewhat dropped in my priority list last week, sorry
<skaet> pitti, thanks for bringing up now.  :)
<pitti> skaet: just in case someone asks or brings it up
<skaet> and with that,  this will be the last weekly meeting until after UDS-P.
<skaet> Thanks again every one for the hard work on getting oneiric ready for release!
<pitti> ah, was about to ask -- so no meeting next Friday, good
<pitti> o/
<skaet> yup.
<skaet> pitti, go
<pitti> when should we accept oneiric-proposed uploads?
<pitti> on Monday?
<pitti> (there's two in the queue already)
<cjwatson> are we accepting apport and kerneloops today?
<pitti> so far my standing order for that was to accept them on Sunday and then trigger all image builds
<pitti> so that we have everything ready on Monday morning
<cjwatson> ah, ok - should I upload a base-files for the same batch then?
<pitti> so that we still have apport for testing today's images
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, makes sense
<skaet> yes, given some of the things landing,  seems reasonable.
<pitti> I think accepting SRUs on Monday for testing should work as well
<skaet> re: oneiric-proposed,  lets touch base on Monday.
<pitti> if we really need a final upload, we'd just bump teh version and reupload to -proposed
<pitti> but we need to give them some testing for 0-day SRUs
<pitti> I'm particularly thinking on firefox there
 * skaet nods
<Daviey> cjwatson: ogasawara confirmed she was happy for kerneloops to be accepted a while ago.
<pitti> bug 869311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 869311 in firefox (Ubuntu Oneiric) "searchplugins installation damaged after natty->oneiric upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869311
<pitti> ... which I forgot to mention, argh
<pitti> (added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus now)
<Daviey> cjwatson: bug 759545 still has a 11.10 target.. do you want to update that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759545 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759545
<cjwatson> Daviey: yes, will bump to precise
<skaet> any more comments/questions,  feel free to raise in #ubuntu-meeting
<skaet> Thanks mlegris, jibel, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, fabo, pitti, dbarth_, stgraber, charlie-tca, gilir, tumbleweed, Laney, doko, rickspencer3!
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct  7 16:19:51 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-07-15.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu wants to say a *big* thank you to everyone for their efforts getting Oneiric out.
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<skaet> +1
<Daviey> charlie-tca: we aren't there yet :)
<Laney> is this the last release meeting of the cycle?
<skaet> Laney,  yup.
<Daviey> (Unless we are delayed, right? :))
<stgraber> thanks!
<jibel> Thanks skaet !
<pitti> thanks everyone
<Laney> well then, it's been fun!
<Daviey> it's been emotional.
<rickspencer3> lol
<skaet> Laney,  fun will resume after UDS-P.   ;)
<Laney> just got... something in my eye...
<charlie-tca> With the help Xubuntu got to get to this point, the Thanks are earned already!
<skaet> Completely agree charlie-tca!   Been some awesome features landing, and very impressive bug fixing over the last couple of weeks.
<pitti> charlie-tca: is bug 840094 still an RC issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<charlie-tca> It is still an issue, but I will release note. It only affects installs from the cd menu
<pitti> ack
<charlie-tca> pitti: I think we can push it to precise
<micahg> skaet: sorry, we forgot to have someone cover for jdstrand on his day off
<micahg> skaet: want an update?
<skaet> micahg,  sure - mostly interested in if there's anything in the security pending bucket that could cause issues.
<micahg> skaet: not that I'm aware of, we deferred 2 bugs to SRU, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
 * skaet figures no news, is good news,  on this front.  :)
<skaet> thanks micahg.   I'll take a pass through the status and ask questions directly if I spot anything.
<micahg> skaet: the only thing I can think of is if I find a fix for chromium arm, but I guess at this point, we can defer to 0-day SRU for that as well since it's not required on any images
<skaet> micahg, yes,  0-day SRU is the preference at this point.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-08
<jussi> o/
<elky> o/
<rww> o-|-<
<elky> o-/-<
<topyli> heyhey
<elky> topyli doesn't want to dance with us, rww :(
<topyli> i do, but only for 40 minutes max
<topyli> have to take wife to doctor, she is ill
<elky> then we'd better start
<jussi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Oct  8 11:01:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is jussi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
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<topyli> i shouldn't chair
<topyli> ah thanks jussi
<jussi> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<jussi> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
<elky> I thought he fixed that...
<jussi> Anyway, theres just the one bug.
<jussi> any updates from anyone?
<topyli> there's also an action item appointed to me and jussi, not done
<topyli> (related to this bug)
<jussi> Oh far out, Id forgotten about that - lets make sure we get that done by next time
<topyli> yeah
<jussi> right, next topic.
<jussi> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review last meetings action items
<jussi> ACTION: nhandler to look into extending eir nag frequency and getting ubottu to show BT urls, with assistance from tsimpson
<jussi> and the one topyli has mentioned
<topyli> i think nhandler has done this
<topyli> oh not the urls
<elky> I believe that was done by collaboration between alanbell and staff actually
<jussi> That one has been partially done but both nhandler and tsimpson are now not really around
<rww> eir is currently set to nag every six hours, so I think that bit's sorted.
<jussi> yeah
<jussi> anywayp, not much more we can do at this time on that.
<elky> next item then?
<jussi> right, so the next item is discussion only, we dont expect to be making a decision today on how this will happen
<jussi> #topic Make Lubuntu channels core after Oneiric release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Make Lubuntu channels core after Oneiric release
<jussi> topyli: want to summarise?
<topyli> the main thing here is adding ops to -ops instead of -irc i think, and make sure their conduct is in line with the rest of the team (i.e. following the leadership guidelines and other documentation)
<topyli> the channel works, no issue there afaik
<topyli> this doesn't have to happen one second after release, but eventually core is core
<elky> *if* it happens.
<rww> The channel works because it is tiny, not necessarily because it is correctly run.
<rww> As I've mentioned to the IRCC, I have serious misgivings about adding the current set of #lubuntu operators as core ops, and strongly recommend that they go through an application process to weed out unqualified ops and add qualified ones.
<elky> I personally have strong doubts of the wisdom of putting them in -ops. I think it to be frankly unwise.
<topyli> if the channel grows as a result of lubuntu being official, and/or starts attracting more trolls, we'll help grow the team
<rww> The channel itself I have no problem with being core. I do have a problem with the way IRCC seems to be planning to go about it.
<jussi> I dont think the discussion is about whether the channel becomes core - that to me seems a given. (in line with our policy of what is core and what isnt).
<topyli> well, any ops that are unsuitable will be dealt with just like everybody else, and new ops will be sought as necessary
<elky> jussi, the policy would need to be rewritten if you're going to us the policy as any form of argument for this.
<elky> the policy simply does not handle this situation at all
<elky> s/us/use/
<elky> topyli, we are poor at dealing with troublesome ops we already have.
<topyli> the policy is fine IMO
<topyli> elky: that's a completely different issue
<rww> topyli: Would this be before or after we give them access to the bantracker that some of them have notable entries in? It's already after giving them access to the channel that some of their behavior outside of #lubuntu has been discussed in.
<rww> which was an action I also strongly disagreed with, and which I feel was made despite a shocking lack of communication with the IRC team
<elky> the policy is not at all fine if it would allow people who got to a project channel first, unrelatedly to the development team who earned the right to be official, automatic ops.
<AlanBell> o/
<topyli> so what is your suggestion? get rid of the current lubuntu ops and install some that you like better? that doesn't seem doable, the project will likely change networks then
<rww> topyli: No, my suggestion as I have told you already is to open applications for #lubuntu ops, have all current #lubuntu ops that want to continue to be #lubuntu ops go through it, have anyone else who wants #lubuntu ops go through it, and then set the access list to contain people who pass that process.
<AlanBell> my suggestion is to make them new core ops, on probation like all new core ops
<elky> if they're threatening to flounce to another network, i really don't want them as ops.
<AlanBell> elky: I think that is speculation, not a threat by them
<jussi> AlanBell: this is also my view.
<elky> AlanBell, except not. because there hasn't been the pre-selection process.
<topyli> rww: that is entirely possible and i might even support it
<LjL> i don't think they should get a free pass.
<topyli> AlanBell: it is speculation
<elky> please don't speculate on that matter then, please. it's caused enough issues already in the discussion with them
<AlanBell> ok, so how to back-fill the preselection process
<rww> AlanBell: translate into English, please?
<elky> AlanBell, read what rww wrote above
<topyli> well if you hijack a project, get rid of their people and install yours, you're not going to have a happy ending
<elky> rww, he's asked for the idea you provided earlier
<jussi> topyli: ++
<rww> topyli: We're not hijacking a project. The project is asking to be managed by the IRC team, so they have to play by our rules.
<rww> If they don't want to, they can feel free to not be a core channel.
<LjL> topyli: did someone order them to become a core project?
<elky> rww ++
<elky> in which case the policy is broken
<rww> It'd be regrettable, but it's voluntary on their part as far as I know, and should be.
<topyli> rww: your idea about having the ops go through our normal process is pretty good
<elky> LjL, the core channels policy is.
<jussi> The lubuntu people in as far as I know are somewhat resistant to being managed by the ircc.
<elky> LjL, because it's broken.
<AlanBell> sounds fine to me
<topyli> LjL: of course not. not me anyway :)
<rww> jussi: If the Lubuntu people aren't sure about whether they want to be managed by IRCC, perhaps they should go figure that out and come back if they decide they do.
<jussi> rww: there is no choice, if they are a official derivative, they come under the ircc, as they come under the cc, fc etc
<elky> this discussion is getting circular.
<LjL> right but i don't suppose someone ordered them to be an official derivative either?
<oCean> fwiw, I'm all for rww's suggestion too
<rww> jussi: This is not my interpretation of the IRC Council's scope.
<topyli> the CC has asked the IRCC to manage ubuntu channels, that's reality
<rww> Given that official derivatives have left freenode before, I find it difficult to believe, too.
<head_victim> o/
<rww> (that all official derivatives are managed by IRCC automatically, that is)
<jussi> heya head_victim
<topyli> well we can't manage channels on other networks, that's unrealistic
<head_victim> As a Lubuntu Op (a little inactive but still) I'd just like to say, I'm all for most of what you're proposing (not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself)
<topyli> rww: that's the current policy
<jussi> If there is an official derivative channel on freenode, then the ircc is the governing body.
<elky> head_victim, for what who is proposing? there's two conflicting proposals here.
<head_victim> Either the apply like others or probation, I can see merits in both.
<elky> head_victim, there'll be probation as part of applying like others
<elky> all new ops get probation.
<rww> topyli: This is incorrect. Addition or removal of channels from the core channel list is at the discretion of the IRCC.
<head_victim> elky: and makes perfect sense.
<elky> head_victim, i think so too
<jussi> Im more than happy to have the lubuntu ops on probation, but I think we need to give all of them a chance.
<rww> topyli: You appear to be conflating "managed" in the sense of core channels that are staffed by the IRC team and "managed" in the sense of functioning as group contacts and facilitating the wishes of relevant councils.
<elky> jussi, that is the critical issue we disagree on.
<head_victim> I'd also like a little "welcome package" with some links to some reading to make sure I am doing my job properly.
<rww> jussi: I strongly disagree.
<topyli> rww: true, we can add channels. but removing channels that are support or development of an official derivative would be something i can't support
<elky> There are several ops in the currentl #lubuntu ops list who I would never in a million years consider to be an op based on previous behaviour by them.
<LjL> jussi: i'm quite strongly opposed to giving a chance to someone who's got many relevant bantracker entries, though. i don't know who these people are, but it goes against my every instinct.
<rww> jussi: I feel no need to give people that have demonstrated significant issues that disqualify them from opping our existing core channels a chance. Chances are earned, and they have not.
<elky> I can not and will not support troublesome people getting a shortcut on the ops process. We may as well just shortcut all the trolls as well.
<topyli> that's just not a very useful comparison
<elky> if we shortcut anyone, we have to apply the same benefit to all
<elky> I refuse to apply the same benefit to anyone who wants to be an op
<elky> if we apply the shortcut to everyone, the worst will apply
<rww> If someone applied for #ubuntu ops and had a history of being k-lined on multiple networks, or flagrant op abuse in #ubuntu* non-core channels, or a demonstrated inability to do simple channel operation despite repeated instruction, I would say exactly the same thing in email to IRCC as I have said in email to IRCC about this.
<topyli> ok so this seems to be the disagreement. we agree that there should be a call for #lubuntu ops and the current ops can apply to be ops, and they go through the normal probation etc. but we don't know whether or not the current ops should be auto-chosen
<elky> topyli, yes, i stated as much earlier.
<topyli> yep, and i have been unable to convince you otherwise :)
<rww> And the ridiculous thing here is that you all know dang well that if some of the people on #lubuntu's access list applied for ops in any core channel they wouldn't get it.
<elky> because i refuse to do what i see as being negligent.
<rww> I'm not sure if you're ignoring it because of politics or what, but it's a bit ridiculous that you are.
<oCean> the "normal application process" and "auto chosen" are conflicting anyway, not?
<rww> oCean: yes
<topyli> yes
<elky> absolutely
<topyli> we could simply merge the team with our team and be done with it. but i agree that the usual probation and mentoring would be useful
<elky> er...
<elky> i should hope that the usual probation and mentoring would happen either way. if not, i don't have words to describe my opinion of your idea.
<oCean> I don't see why "auto chosen" (or "simply merge" is still an option, if there is going to be an application process anyway
<rww> oCean: because Lubuntu's leadership are unhappy that their choice of ops is being questioned, and leaning on IRCC to approve them all.
<elky> oCean, because some people want to skip the application process wholesale from my undertanding
<topyli> so normal process without any automatic opping seems popular. we'll have to see what the lubuntu team thinks, if they can accept it or if we have to find another way to deal with the situation. i have to go, but that's my idea
<jussi> topyli: I can support that
<oCean> rww, elky ok, I did not know/get that part
<topyli> you can action it to me, i'm off
<jussi> elky: ?
<elky> I'm not sure what i would be supporting there? It's seeming a little like a hostage situation.
<jussi> elky: its supporting your proposal if all parties support it.
<elky> jussi, I support that. The second part of what topyli says i don't.
<rww> If Lubuntu doesn't like IRCC procedures and the CC has in fact mandated that #lubuntu become core (which I don't believe they have, personally), Lubuntu can get over it.
<rww> They picked some crap ops, it's their fault this is happening in the first place.
<elky> rww I don't think the development team did much of the op picking actually.
<rww> In the event that there is not in fact a mandate that #lubuntu become core, they can feel free to not be core.
<elky> which means we're essentially dealing with 2 lubuntus
<rww> elky: then who did?
<elky> rww, at least one of the ops would have been self-chosen
<rww> elky: That is absurd.
<AlanBell> so an existing good lubuntu op, from today could go through the whole process without being deopped at any stage
<elky> rww, then who started the channel?
<jussi> AlanBell: yes
<rww> elky: whoever started Lubuntu, I would hope.
<rww> elky: anyway, it's immaterial. Regardless of who got on there themselves, #lubuntu's standards for granting ops are demonstrably flawed.
<elky> yes.
<rww> or, at least, flawed for #lubuntu-qua-core-channel. They may work fine for #lubuntu as it is.
<elky> i dont doubt it works fine for its existance right now. That's not the consequence at stake
<jussi> right, I have a friend just arriving, I will action topyli to send an email to the lubuntu list informing them of the application process etc.
<elky> you might as well end the meeting now, topyli is well gone i suspet
<jussi> #action topyli Send informative email to #lubuntu ops list, with guidelines and application stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: topyli Send informative email to #lubuntu ops list, with guidelines and application stuff
<jussi> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Oct  8 11:44:09 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-08-11.01.moin.txt
<rww> I note that we haven't addressed the disagreement between my POV and jussi's, which is whether existing #lubuntu ops should be automatically accepted by the application process.
<AlanBell> yay
<jussi> rww: yes we did
<rww> jussi: Ah. No automatic approval unless they don't like that in which case back to the drawing board?
<jussi> rww: well review and think how to proceed, talk more. (catalytic like ;))
<elky> rww, yes, that would be why i expressed hesitation
<rww> jussi: okays
<rww> jussi: I also think that at some point the lack of communication with the IRC team before adding #lubuntu people to #ubuntu-ops-team needs to be discussed.
<rww> jussi: because i think that you and topyli screwed up on that, personally.
<jussi> rww: fair enough, we can have a chat about that at some point - Im still in disagreeance with you there but thats me
<jussi> right, friend is at door, laters.
<rww> I've said it before and I'll continue saying it until release, communication between IRCC and the ops team and the user base is dysfunctional, and it needs fixing.
<jussi> Ill do the tasks tomorrow
<rww> and probably within IRCC too, given that two of them aren't around most of the time
<rww> jussi: You presumably don't disagree that there was a lack of communication, since there obviously wasn't. Therefore I assume you disagree with my assertion that you not communicating with your team is a problem. I do not envy you defending that position.
<rww> anyway, it is 5am. I'm going to bed.
<Unit193> rww: Quick PM question?
<rww> Unit193: if it's very quick
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-01
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> o/
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is eager to start, clearly :)
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  1 18:04:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've been working on some lightdm apparmor fixes this morning for 12.10, and am almost done
<jdstrand> I've got some pending updates that I am working on
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just released software-properties updates
<mdeslaur> and I have qemu-kvm and devscripts updates to test
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I'm on community too
<mdeslaur> wednesday, I have patch piloting
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll pick something else to poke at
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm finally finishing up glibc testing, that will go out later today
<sbeattie> After that, I'm moving on to apparmor stuff
<sbeattie> will pick up jjohansen's coredump testcase patch for quantal
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up (since micahg's off)
<tyhicks> I have a libgssglue update to test and publish
<tyhicks> I also need to attach a fix to the openssl bug I opened a couple weeks ago
<tyhicks> It isn't getting any attention upstream
<tyhicks> But there's two plausible, simple fixes for it
 * tyhicks will be sure to have that ready by at least mdeslaur's patch piloting on wednesday
<mdeslaur> hrm :P
<tyhicks> Then I'll be starting on apparmor stuff when I get the green light from jjohansen
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're welcome ;)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: that's it, you're up
<jdstrand> heh
<jjohansen> tyhicks: green light
<tyhicks> oh, nice! :)
<jjohansen> So I am dumping some docs, on tyhicks and sbeattie
<jjohansen> and getting them moving on some apparmor items
<jjohansen> I still have some fixing of the dbus parser patch so it works with 2.8 that I a plan to finish up today
<jjohansen> I have a yama qrt failure to finish looking into
<jjohansen> and more apparmor debugging
<jjohansen> of the kernel.
<jjohansen> I also need to push the current set of bug fixes upstream for 3.7 release window
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<jjohansen> oh and I guess this is a short week for me I am off friday
<sarnold> I think I've got my buildenvironment and testenvironment all built; this week we'll find what I missed and hopefully get around to fixing some packages. :)
<sarnold> I'm also going to be paying attention to the community role, woo.
<sarnold> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smsclient.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libyaml-libyaml-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdbd-pg-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mcrypt.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/otrs2.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur (or possibly jjohansen): I see some 'high' kernel CVEs. what is the status of those?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: oh, hrmm I haven't checked this morning yet
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: it's been at high for a while now
<mdeslaur> CVE-2012-3520
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-3520)
<mdeslaur> it's in the -proposed kernel, so should be out soon
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: ^
<jjohansen> jdstrand, mdeslaur: yep
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: awesome, thanks
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> jdstrand: wrt the lightdm, one of our users was looking for a way to allow the guest profile to launch chromium-browser but not have the lightdm profile itself known about all the exceptions to its profile
<sarnold> jdstrand: this seemed like a reasonable idea to me, I've got a feeling that an #include <lightdm.d> may be useful for handling future cases similar to chromium-browser
<sarnold> s/itself known/itself know/
<jdstrand> sarnold: yeah-- I saw the bug. I am doing something similar
<jdstrand> lightdm.d would be good, but I'd like to get upstream consensus on our .d directories. in the meantime, I have split out all of the lightdm rules into abstractions/lightdm. the guest and remote sessions can use that
<sarnold> jdstrand: cool :) (he wanted to pick up a bug he thought he could handle, but the nuances of named profile transitions are subtle enough that I think it makes sense for you to work on that one full-speed-ahead. But I did like his idea of isolating exceptions in their own pile of included files.
<jdstrand> cause right now the freerdp and uccsconfigure profiles are profile copies
<jdstrand> then I am adding a separate lightdm_chromium-browser abstraction that will itself include the lightdm abstraction
<jdstrand> bug it will have the additional rules to get chromium running
<sarnold> aha, that sounds good. :) Thanks
<jdstrand> so we achieve the same. if we need another special-cased profile, then we can add the lightdm.d dir
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  1 18:32:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-01-18.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-01-18.04.html
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: thanks
<kees> \o
 * stgraber waves
<bryceh> hiho
<pitti> bonne nuit mes amis
<cjwatson> Hi
<cjwatson> Do we have a non-trivial agenda?
<pitti> "New/MIR processing for new nvidia-experimental-NNN packages: bryce
<pitti> ["
<pitti> AFAICS
<pitti> (at first sight that sounds more like an operational problem though rather than policy)
<bryceh> (it's a small point of clarification needed from last week's discussion, hopefully quick)
<kees> pitti: you can't trick me! you're not french! :)
<pitti> kees: j'apprends le franÃ§ais maintenant
<pitti> kees: c'est la faute de seb128 et duolingo.com :)
<kees> haha
<mdz> hi
<pitti> who's chairing today? cjwatson chaired last time, so kees now?
<pitti> hey mdz
<kees> sure, I'm happy to do it.
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  1 20:02:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<kees> looks like no action review
<kees> so, let's move right along...
<kees> [topic] New/MIR processing for new nvidia-experimental-NNN packages: bryce
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New/MIR processing for new nvidia-experimental-NNN packages: bryce
<cjwatson> There was one action but I did it
<cjwatson> (Followed up to the lists)
<bryceh> thanks again for the new policy regarding the experimental drivers.
<kees> cool, saw that just now.
<kees> bryceh: sure! seems like a good plan.
<bryceh> the issue is that I think there was some uncertainty by reviewers on what that means, so in practice it has not been speeding things up very much.
<cjwatson> Have you actually had pushback, or is it just that all the reviewers are busy?
<pitti> new processing seems to be rather simple to me, I guess these drivers look all alike?
<bryceh> but the specific issue I need help with is when we get a new beta driver, it needs to go through several steps:  New review, MIR, then SRU
<cjwatson> There's enough overlap between -sru and -release that release timing can cause issues
<pitti> I don't see much purpose in an explicit MIR
<bryceh> what i'm finding is that while each review is quick, it can take several days to catch someone's attention and do the review.
<pitti> we don't usually do that for other cases either (libfoo2 vs. libfoo3 or so)
<bryceh> cjwatson, busy/vacation/offline yeah
 * soren stumbles in
<soren> Sorry I'm late.
<pitti> I had expected the cycle to be "upload to -proposed queue" and u-sru NEWs it into -restricted
<pitti> hey soren
<bryceh> anyway, currently it appears I need to go to three separate individuals to do the review steps.  It would be nice if one person (the SRU admin, ala RAOF) could handle all approvals in one go.
<cjwatson> So, RAOF has technical access to do both NEW and SRU (normally he'd only process the UNAPPROVED queue, but there's nothing actually stopping him from doing NEW for a stable series and in this case it seems reasonable)
<cjwatson> I think then all we would need to do is agree that he has a class-action MIR?
<kees> seems fine to me. I think that was the original intent, yes?
<cjwatson> i.e. that the "main" (well, restricted) review for the mainline nvidia/fglrx drivers covers these variants too
<cjwatson> Does the package need to go into the development series as well as part of this?
<bryceh> cjwatson, yes we will always have the development series updated too.
<kees> good, yeah. I would have expected that to be happening.
<bryceh> although technically they're probably orthogonal since we move them back to nvidia-current on upgrade
<bryceh> er, move people back
<cjwatson> That's a problem because in general -sru does not have any queue admin access to the development series
<cjwatson> If the person you were dealing with were in -archive then this wouldn't be a problem though
<cjwatson> And actually RAOF is - not fully trained I think but he's expressed an interest in that and it's just waiting for me to get round to it
<cjwatson> If I'm thinking of the right person
<pitti> but I guess the time-sensitive part is actually precise-proposed?
<stgraber> having RAOF do both the AA work for the current dev release and the SRU review would make sense as he's probably the one person who's the most clue about the package anyway
<bryceh> pitti, that's correct
<pitti> i. e. if the equivalent dev release NEWing takes some days longer, that's not a big deal?
<bryceh> having it in quantal is really only important in order to proceed with doing the SRU
<pitti> if it helps archive/SRU folks, I wouldn't mind to extend the MRE with some verbiage about delegating the SRU NEWing for nvidia-* to ubuntu-sru
<bryceh> pitti, yeah, if we could do the precise-proposed and quantal as two separate processes then if getting it into quantal takes a while longer, that'd be ok
<pitti> we've had wholly new drivers SRUed without any dev release counterpart
<cjwatson> I think NEW authorisation where necessary for SRUs is implicit in the general delegation to -sru
<cjwatson> Personally
<pitti> it doesn't happen often (fortunately!), so I guess there's some uncertainty involved
<bryceh> ok, thanks, yes it may be just that it needed some extra clarification what was permitted.  thanks
<kees> do we have a specific action to take out of this? update documentation?
<bryceh> kees, I have been documenting the process at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/DriverUpdates and will make sure it's clearly stated and referenced on that page
<kees> bryceh: okay, that sounds good to me.
<cjwatson> Yep, we don't seem to have any dissent here
<kees> bryceh: did this cover everything for you?
<bryceh> kees, yes thank you!
<kees> cool
<kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<kees> I don't see anything outstanding on the list. anyone see anything I'm not?
<pitti> neither do I
<soren> Nope.
<stgraber> nope
<kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<pitti> I changed my mutt config to show  TB mail in a different color now, and nothing jumps at me :)
<kees> we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375 still showing, but it looks like we should unassign TB from it, based on discussion.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in ubuntu-community "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kees> (or mark it fix-released)
<kees> what do others think?
<pitti> I'd close it now
<pitti> if there are specific issues left, they should get more focussed bugs
<cjwatson> Yeah, let's close it.  We don't gain much from it at this point.
<kees> done.
<pitti> but "may need redesign" sounds like a dead horse now
<kees> [topic] Other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other business
<kees> anything else we need to go over before picking the next chair?
<cjwatson> As a point of reference, ~ubuntu-release now has queue admin access and still contains ~ubuntu-release-nominators (though that was mostly oversight), and to the best of my knowledge there's been zero abuse.
<pitti> "There are currently no open bugs." \o/
<cjwatson> Probably because it's not exactly something you can run into by accident.
<kees> pitti: :)
<cjwatson> (And if we cared, we could invert the team structure as I suggested, but I don't think I really care.)
<kees> [topic] Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<kees> okay, who's next?
<pitti> that would be me, I think
<soren> I won't be able to make it.
<kees> mdz, no?
<pitti> Oct 15 sounds ok
<stgraber> yeah, as long as there's no abuse, status quo is fine. I'd still love to have that audit trail implemented though :)
<mdz> I'm available October 15th I think
<pitti> I'm going in the order at https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members
<kees> ah!
<pitti> but I don't mind much
<mdz> but pitti's suggestion is fine too ;-)
<pitti> I'm just less sure about Oct 29, with UDS and such
<cjwatson> Oct 15 is fine by me
<kees> okay, we'll do first-name then, not nick. pitti it is
<mdz> oct 29 is no problem for me
<cjwatson> Oct 29 will be, er, either 2200 or 2300 at UDS (haven't looked up DST)
<pitti> welcome to my world :)
<cjwatson> Which I doubt I can make
<pitti> 2200
<cjwatson> (My family will be with me so I don't think I'll be doing lots of late-night hacking)
<pitti> assuming that we readjust back to winter time
<stgraber> yeah, the UDS meeting seems rather unlikely to happen as we'll likely be busy with other things
<kees> nice and quick meeting, just under 30 min. :)
<kees> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  1 20:29:46 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-01-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-01-20.02.html
<pitti> merci kees, Ã  demain!
<kees> hehe
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-02
<Ursinha> I will chair the meeting this time!
<rbasak> \o/
 * rbasak is safe for another week
<m_3_> o/
<mercsniper> o/
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> sorry for being absent last weeks
<Ursinha> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  2 16:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is Ursinha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<Ursinha> hello all
<Ursinha> are you all here?
<SpamapS> no
<SpamapS> but keep going
<Ursinha> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Ursinha> * jamespage to look into aligning release team and server team trackign reports
<jamespage> Ursinha, golly -is that still on the list....
<Ursinha> jamespage, hehe... this one involves me, right?
<jamespage> yep
<jamespage> and as we are sooo bad at communicating with each other...
<Ursinha> [action] jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<Ursinha> it's mine too now :)
<Ursinha> we can catch up tomorrow, will try to find a spot for us to talk
<Ursinha> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<Ursinha> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<Ursinha> #subtopic Release Bugs
<Ursinha> I don't think this works?
<Ursinha> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Ursinha> so, let's see
<JoseeAntonioR> Ursinha: you won't get a reply for link, or for subtopic
<Ursinha> that's different
<Ursinha> thanks JoseeAntonioR
<Ursinha> I'm looking at the bugs
<Ursinha> so, there is bug 1017847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017847 in qemu-linaro (Ubuntu) "qemu segfaults when creating an armhf container on an amd64 host" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017847
<Ursinha> are we working on it for this cycle? it has the rls-q-incoming tag
<Ursinha> serge isn't here
<hallyn> sure i am
<hallyn> last i tried i couldn't reproduce due to other failures - i should try again...
<Ursinha> ah!
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> hallyn, if we're not fixing, we might want to remove the tag or add another one to say we're not fixing this cycle
<Ursinha> if is a valid issue, of course
<hallyn> the issue definately was valid at one point
<Ursinha> right..
<hallyn> (added to my list)
<Ursinha> we have two critical bugs, one is fix committed by smoser
<Ursinha> other is critical, SpamapS set it to critical
<Ursinha> bug 1047520
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1047520 in php5 (Ubuntu Quantal) "NEWS and release notes need updating" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047520
<Ursinha> SpamapS, are you fixing that?
<smoser> what is the one that is fix-committed by me ?
<Ursinha> bug 1049177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049177 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "isc-dhcp-server apparmor profile should have include ".d" " [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049177
<Ursinha> the quantal task
<Ursinha> for maas
<smoser> roaksoax, should that be fix-released in maas ?
<smoser> ie, do we have a maas package that uses its own dhcp server?
<SpamapS> Ursinha: yes I'll take a look at that
<roaksoax> smoser: i think we do, i haven't looked at the latest changes made to that package
<roaksoax> (maas-dhcp(
<Ursinha> thanks Sp4rKy
<Ursinha> oops
<Ursinha> SpamapS, even
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Ursinha> (sorry Sp4rKy)
<smoser> Ursinha, well, either way, its under control
<smoser> (it is fixed in daily ppa)
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> do you have any issues you want to bring into attention?
<SpamapS> bug 1047520 is actually already Fix Released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1047520 in php5 (Ubuntu Quantal) "NEWS and release notes need updating" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047520
<SpamapS> so, woot :)
<Ursinha> cool :)
<Ursinha> I found another critical bug: bug 1044632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044632 in juju (Ubuntu Quantal) "Modify format 2 so that it supports raw strings" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044632
<Daviey> OT: /me chimes in that he is only partially here atm.
<jimbaker> Ursinha, that's part of the 0.5.2 release of juju
<Ursinha> jimbaker, I ask because it's targeted to the release, only wanted to know if that bug is going to make it or if it's going to be sru'd later
<jimbaker> SpamapS is currently working on a micro release that will be in a sru
<Ursinha> ah, right
<jimbaker> actually bad phrased - 0.5.2 is that micro release, then to included in an upcoming sru
<Ursinha> so we might want to target that to quantal-updates,right?
<Daviey> SpamapS: any news on using ubuntu-cloud lxc template for local provider ?
<jimbaker> Ursinha, that's a sru for precise. it should be part of the final for quantal
<Ursinha> jimbaker, right, thanks for the info
<Ursinha> I'll talk to people about bugs outside the meeting, otherwise this will take forever
<Ursinha> will move on to blueprints
<Ursinha> #subtopic Blueprints
<Ursinha> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<Ursinha> the link that Daviey hates
<Ursinha> that link is indeed not nice if you want to be objective :/
<SpamapS> Daviey: yes, branch is proposed and in review today actually
<SpamapS> jimbaker: format 2 does not exist in 0.5.x
<SpamapS> jimbaker: that bug is only relevant in 0.6
<SpamapS> Ursinha: we don't need to target that at quantal-updates. I have a final drop of Juju code planned for later this week.
<Ursinha> SpamapS, awesome then
 * SpamapS apologizes for lagging :-P
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> that link is somehow impossible to follow up, the blueprints one, so please remember to update yours if haven't already
<Ursinha> I'll move on
<Ursinha> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Ursinha> * CFP deadlines
<Ursinha>  ** SoCal Linux Expo (Deadline: Dec. 10) http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/cfp
<Ursinha> any other events?
<Ursinha> I'll take that as a no :)
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> hi
<Ursinha> hi hggdh, any updates for us?
<hggdh> just a question from me -- the iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO -- it seems you want us to run it
<hggdh> we need to have the details on how to do it, can you please pass them over?
<hggdh> and, additionally, I found an easy way to have the ISO dns-server tests to actually execute, I will be proposing a merge soon for USIT
<hggdh> ..
<Ursinha> who asked you that, hggdh?
<hggdh> Ursinha: nobody asked us that, but then the server team did not run them on the Beta 2 tests
<Ursinha> ah, oops
<Ursinha> Daviey, who could provide the info to hggdh to run these tests?
<jamespage> hggdh, I can pass you info on the iscsi tests
<hggdh> oh, an additional point on MAAS
<Ursinha> [action] jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<hggdh> it now seems to support virsh, but there is no docs on how to fill in the fields on the "Add Node" screen
<hggdh> and the "Doc" button on the page does not even talk about virsh...
<Ursinha> roaksoax or smoser, ^^
<roaksoax> i think we would need to check that with iupstream I've only worked with IPMI
<roaksoax> but should be pretty straight forward
<smoser> i've not tested current maas with virsh
<smoser> but it is on the list of things i'd like to know how to do
<Daviey> Ursinha: hggdh should grab me out of meeting :)
<Ursinha> cool :)
<Ursinha> is that enough information for you, hggdh?
<hggdh> yes it is :-)
<Ursinha> great :)
<Ursinha> moving on, then
 * hggdh prepares the net to grab Daviey
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Ursinha> hello smb
<smb> I don't have much to report right now... I hope I am finally homing in on bug 1021471. Just compiling a new test kernel for that right now. Should be on people by the time this meeting ends...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "clone() hang when creating new network namespace (dmesg show unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<smb> ..
<SpamapS> smb: thanks for fighting to get that going. Its quite important for juju. :)
<SpamapS> and really for LXC users
<Daviey> +1
<Ursinha> great, thanks smb
<Ursinha> any questions for smb?
<Ursinha> okay, moving on
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Quantal on ARM is looking good. MAAS on ARM is almost done too - all the critical pieces are written now, appear to be working and are in various stages in the pipeline for landing in the next week.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<Ursinha> maybe not :)
<Ursinha> thanks rbasak
<Ursinha> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<Ursinha> discuss!
<Ursinha> you are making me sad today, people
<Ursinha> :)
<zul> gee thanks
<Ursinha> lol
<Ursinha> no one is into discussing today :)
<Ursinha> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Ursinha> sooo
<SpamapS> Ursinha: thanks!!
<SpamapS> oh damn I thought that was EOM
<Ursinha> Next meeting will take place Oct 9th, same bat-channel
<Ursinha> who's next in the line
<Ursinha> if that is a line, so jimbaker is our next chair
<Ursinha> jimbaker, is that ok for you?
<Ursinha> that should do :P
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  2 16:45:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-02-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-02-16.00.html
<Ursinha> thanks people
<SpamapS> FYI, jim did last week, so its from the other end
<SpamapS> Ursinha: anyway, ^5 well done, thanks again
<Ursinha> so next week is rbasak :)
<rbasak> Ursinha: not jimbaker first?
 * rbasak doesn't mind
<rbasak> But knowing in advance is helpful
<Ursinha> rbasak, SpamapS said he did it last week, so I have to fix that queue :/
<jimbaker> Ursinha, rbasak, cool, yes, i chaired last week, so someone else is next :)
<rbasak> ah yes
<rbasak> OK, so me next week it is
<zul> the more people who pile in front of me the better :)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  2 17:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<dhillon-v10> o/
<sconklin> o/
<herton> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report this week.
 * smb runs in
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 2 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-xorg-lts-updates      || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> apw and I will review and close our remaining work items as we approach
<ogasawara> final release.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.5.0-16.[24,25] kernels.  With Quantal kernel
<ogasawara> freeze approaching in 2 days, we will upload one final kernel before
<ogasawara> freeze by EOD tomorrow, Wed Oct 3.  Following kernel freeze all patches
<ogasawara> are subject to the SRU policy and only critical bug fixes will warrent
<ogasawara> an upload. Non critical bug fixes and changes will be targetted to the
<ogasawara> first Quantal SRU kernel.
<ogasawara> As usual, all kernels will also get uploaded to the q-lts-backport [1]
<ogasawara> PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We welcome
<ogasawara> anyone to please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 4 - Kernel Freeze (2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 9 - Final Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 18 - 12.10 Final (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-10-02 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 41 CVEs on our radar, with no CVEs added or retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (October 02):
<henrix>  * Hardy - In Testing; 1 CVEs; (1 commits)
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 3 CVEs; (12 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Testing; 2 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (54 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Verification; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (234 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<dhillon-v10> o/
<jsalisbury> dhillon-v10, go ahead
<dhillon-v10> hi all, okay so recently at KS there was a lot of discussion about module signing and I've been working on an approach i'd like to present and maybe get some feedback?
<rtg> dhillon-v10, how is your approach different then david howell's ?
<dhillon-v10> the idea is a hybrid between what chrome os does (I saw some of Kees's work) and what David Howell posted
<dhillon-v10> rtg: just getting to t hat
<dhillon-v10> *that
<dhillon-v10> so specifically, I'm referring to patch 19 that in his patchset, that allows signatures to be added in the build process
<rtg> dhillon-v10, so, given the complexity of module signing you'd likely be better off posting your ideas on teh kteam mailing list
<dhillon-v10> rtg: do you think it's better to post there? alright then in that case i suppose i'm done here
<rtg> dhillon-v10, we _are_ considering module signing, but just haven't fully thought it all through
<sconklin> Yes, that also preserves the discussion and gives people in different time zones an ability to review it
<rtg> ..
<jsalisbury> Any other open discussion or questions?
<dhillon-v10> rtg: right, the idea here is not to include all of David's signing stuff because it's very complicated, and I think I may have a simpler approach similar to how in the UEFI stuff, we are getting signed bootloaders IIRC
<dhillon-v10> ..
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  2 17:09:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-02-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-02-17.00.html
<sconklin> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-03
<smartboyhw> meeting in 3 minutes where is balloons??!?!?!?!?
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct  3 14:01:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> Hello everyone
<smartboyhw> \o
<smartboyhw> Hi balloons
<balloons> Shall we take a roll call?
<smartboyhw> role call again:p \o
<phillw> o/
 * smartboyhw has told elfy to come but....
 * balloons rattles head
<smartboyhw> balloons, lol
<balloons> well, shall we dive in?
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> [action] balloons to update qa.ubuntu.com theme
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to update qa.ubuntu.com theme
<balloons> Anything else?
<smartboyhw> balloons, really still haven't solved?:P
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> ?
<balloons> it's still on the todo lis
<balloons> it'll likely be gone for next time
<balloons> beta2 was more pressing :-)
<smartboyhw> Grrrrrrrr.....Anyway just small problem:P
<smartboyhw> :-)
<balloons> I just learned how to solve it.. to be fair most of the tme it was on the list I was awaiting resolution :-)
<balloons> anyways
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<smartboyhw> yay
<balloons> This week Unity 6.8 is landing, and there is the charity-a-thon tomorrow
<smartboyhw> #link http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/10/preparing-for-community-charity-thon.html
<smartboyhw> balloons, I'm coming to support you tmr around 11:00 to 15:00 UTC:P
<balloons> awesome
<balloons> at 24 hrs long, I'm assuming people will be able to find time
<balloons> lol
<smartboyhw> lol
<phillw> I'll be around for as long as I'm at my computer :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<balloons> nice
 * smartboyhw too
<balloons> anything else to share?
<smartboyhw> balloons, sorry for not donating. Don't have money:P
<balloons> the rest of it is straightforward.. it's crunch time for the images
<balloons> smartboyhw, no worries.. showing up is also a help
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> try and get some non-std installations done if you can :-)
<balloons> that was my secondary goal for the 24 hours
 * smartboyhw will test Ubuntu Studio that day then:P
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Other Updates
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> I know phillw, wxl and others have all been working on the ppc iso's to try and land one for the final release of quantal
<balloons> it's been quite a ride with some hard to solve bugs
<balloons> anything else people wish to share?
<smartboyhw> Yay
<balloons> smartboyhw, go ahead
<smartboyhw> \o
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> A bit of report and a bit of question:P
<smartboyhw> The Ubuntu Studio testcase is gonna get done at 10th (I set a deadline).
<smartboyhw> balloons, stupid question: In http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-quality-community-testing.html
<smartboyhw> 76% with red light:P er are you going to fix that?:P
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> I've done my part :-) http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/u/nskaggs.html
<smartboyhw> Oh;P
<smartboyhw> BTW another thing: Someone remove http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ from the QA meeting page, it is clearly outdated with no 2012 logs
<balloons> lol -- yes, it needs to be finished out
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> OK I'm done
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> we're a bit behind overall: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/
 * smartboyhw is happy Ubuntu Studio got 92% and Lubuntu got 89% so we are not gonna be blamed:P
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> Er balloons nothing to add.....:P
 * balloons just noting
<balloons> There are 11 days left in the current cycle. That means that in order to complete all the work 83.91 workitems must be completed per day.
<balloons> I'm sure this Friday's meeting will be interesting
<balloons> we should see sometype of drop
<smartboyhw> Yeah......
<balloons> Ok, so anyone else?
<balloons> anything elsE?
<phillw> we are quietly confident that PPC will ship as both desktop & alternate, using release notes.
<smartboyhw> *quite:P
<balloons> that's good news phillw
<smartboyhw> yay
<balloons> alright, if that's it, well that's it ;-) Again, I hope to see everyone tomorrow. Should be a fun time -- try and make QA part of your day
<smartboyhw> ;-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct  3 14:25:36 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-03-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-03-14.01.html
<smartboyhw> Thx balloons phillw
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<smartboyhw> \o
<ogra_> foo
<infinity> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct  3 15:04:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh barry ev cjwatson infinity xnox bdmurray slangasek stokachu doko ogra stgraber
<jodh> * bugs:
<jodh>   * bug 1060249: Can now recreate. Trying to get more detailed stack
<jodh>     trace.
<jodh>   * bug 1016040: Bit of analysis on this. Still unable to recreate though.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060249 in debconf (Ubuntu Quantal) "frontend crashed with signal 5 in g_node_copy_deep()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016040 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "apt_check.py crashed with SIGSEGV in FileName()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016040
<jodh>   * bug 1030278: Lots of work on this, but barry beat me to the post :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030278 in the python apt bindings "Quantal failed to install: ubiquity crashed in apt/progress/text.py in pulse: OverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030278
<jodh>     We both added some new tests to python-apt to avoid regressions.
<jodh> ð¤
<barry> jodh: just using my western tz to its full advantage :)
<barry> handed off most of the remaining work on the gwibber py3 port, though i will still gatekeep merge proposals.  bug 1056820.  bug 1030278.  followed up with the folks doing the twisted py3 port; looks like 13.04 availability is a possibility, but more details have been requested.  uploaded python-mode 6.0.12 to sid.  looked a bit at bug 1031882.  investigated bug 938869, but this isn't a bug in python so it needs to be fixed in the vmware
<barry> scripts.  bug 1057886.  started looking at bug 935516 (ongoing).  investigating bug 1060489 (ongoing).  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056820 in libxml2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "feedparser ftbfs in quantal, test suite failures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056820
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031882 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "precise->quantal upgrade fails, with a UnicodeDecodeError" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938869 in python3.2 (Ubuntu) "lsb_release crashed with SIGABRT in Py_FatalError()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938869
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057886 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "dpkg-source regression when a patch removes all files from a directory" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935516 in genshi (Ubuntu Precise) "genshi version 0.6-2 FTBFS on i386 in precise" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935516
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060489 in claws-mail-extra-plugins (Ubuntu) "FTBFS due to build-dep conflicts" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060489
<ev> at a webops sprint all week
<ev> been charming the errors.ubuntu.com infrastructure
<ev> and unbreaking the retracers (damn you dpkg -x)
<ev> also working on moving daisy.ubuntu.com to backing to S3
<ev> instead of NFS
<ev> at the request of IS
<ev> (done)
<slangasek> cjohnston:
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Fixed various cdimage publishing bugs exposed by beta-2.
<cjwatson> Lots of rls-q-tracking bug work, too many to list, including finally adding /etc/default/grub.d/, various i18n/l10n bugs, etc.  Still trying to sort out d-i lowmem issues.
<cjwatson> Sponsoring various arm64 config.guess/sub fixes from Wookey.  More to come.
<slangasek> cjohnston: have you considered a stage name
<cjwatson> Progressive rebuild of remaining packages in armel/main for ARMv5t.
<cjwatson> +1 maintenance this month.  Mostly working on build fixes.  eclipse-* was a particularly exciting cluster to unstick.
<cjwatson> .
<ScottK> unstick is a nice euphemism.
<cjwatson> barry: I happened to notice that at least some twisted.trial py3 support was upstream now
<infinity> * Done this week:
<infinity>   - Beta 2 released
<infinity>   - Kernel SRU wrangling
<infinity>   - Other SRU and AA tasks
<infinity>   - gtkhtml4.0 transition, linux-armadaxp license review, dpkg bugfix, vmware-view and sbsigntool version bumps, etc
<infinity>   - working on a new eglibc SRU to replace the one superseded by the last security update
<infinity>   - (Re-)enable bootstrap archives for Colin's unbreaking of various bits
<infinity> â­
<barry> cjwatson: yep, they mentioned that was a blocker for continued work
<ogra_> russian !
<slangasek> ev: S3> if this is done, does this mean they no longer care how much space it takes p? :)
<slangasek> up
<ev> slangasek: hahaha
<ev> this is for the core files
<ev> which at the moment get deleted
<ev> though I suspect it'll make the argument for keeping them around easier
<slangasek> :)
<xnox> slangasek: there is a setting to tab-complete nicknames based on frequency instead of pure alphabetical order.
<cjwatson> Oh, I forgot: currently working on some build log analysis for hardening flag regressions.  Not sure how far I'll have time to get.
<slangasek> ev: so if that goes smoothly, we may want to talk about whether to do the same for ddebs.u.c
<xnox> slangasek: well since servercloud has nice swift mirrors backed by S3 already, it should be doable for a "normal" apt-getable archive.
<slangasek> xnox: your turn :)
<xnox> * rls-q-tracking:
<xnox>  - sponsor fix for bug 1056350
<xnox>  - test and upload mvo's workaround for bug 1015567 and opened bug 1057367 for followup.
<xnox>  - mark bug 1046627 as invalid, because biggest_free was used instead
<xnox>    of actually resizing.
<xnox>  - disable failing svn tests to fix FTBFS bug 1056728 (needs new
<xnox>    upstream release packaged, to late for quantal). But doko is
<xnox>    working on a better/proper fix git-svn and re-enable test-suites.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056350 in BzrTools "build failure on quantal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056350
<xnox>  - Ubiquity: Change calculate_reuse_option logic to allow upgrading development
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015567 in dpkg (Ubuntu Quantal) "upgrade failed: mixed non-coinstallable and coinstallable package instances present" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057367 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "please upgrade status database to remove mixed non-coinstallable and coinstallable packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057367
<xnox>    releases to final/newer. bug 1050562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1046627 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Install Ubuntu XX.XX alongside SYSTEM YY screen missing" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056728 in git (Ubuntu Quantal) "git-svn needs an update for subversion 1.7.x (build-time test suite failure)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056728
<xnox>  - partman-crypto: Move unsafe_swap checks from commit.d to check.d bug 1056707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050562 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Reuse recipe (in-place upgrade/reinstall) isn't given as an option" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050562
<xnox>  - Fix reuse options (were not working) in partman-auto bug 1050562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056707 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) ""Unsafe swap space detected" dialog displayed too late if swap is created after an encrypted partition and makes manual partitioner unusable" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056707
<xnox> * ubiquity adv-lvm:
<xnox>  - almost done, going through all the different paths of vg/lv
<xnox>    manipulation. merge proposal will come soon.
<xnox> * blocked on combination of orca / at-spi / gtk / ubiquity-dm being
<xnox>   broken. See bug 1056300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056300 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "orca quits reading after the welcome screen in ubiquity" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056300
<xnox> * Off to see my parents Fri-Mon, expecting limited internet
<xnox>   connectivity. (GMT+2)
<xnox> </done>
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager / ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs
<bdmurray> tested bugs 1056895, 1059172, 1058102
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader upload fixing apport and apt-clone attachments
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader uploads fixing bugs 1039484, 1045579, 1059403, 1060353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058102 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "The strings in "ubuntu-release-upgrader" is not translated in UI" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058102
<bdmurray> apport modification to include python env variables
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059172 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashes when displaying error dialog" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056895 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity apport hook crashes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039484 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "Accents in sources.list breaks do-release-upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039484
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060353 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "DistUpgradeApport.py causes an apport assertion error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1045579 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Precise) "software-properties-gtk makes a change resulting in a conf file prompt on upgrade that's unnecessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045579
<bdmurray> discovered an issue with DistUpgradeApport.py and assertion errors due to / in key names for attachments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059403 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "dist-upgrade.py returns 1 due to /var/log/dist-upgrade/* not found in P2Q server upgrades" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059403
<bdmurray> reported bug 1060353 regarding DistUpgradeApport.py and wrote a testcase for it
<bdmurray> tested plymouth bug 1056468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056468 in linux (Ubuntu) "monitor inactive during plymouth animation (radeon, fallback to /dev/fb0)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056468
<bdmurray> â done â
<slangasek>  * pam-xdg-support: landed, has been seeded, ubuntu-meta upload needed
<slangasek>  * ironed out final details on SB signing
<slangasek>  * fielded some new bugs after the asynchronous mountall upload
<slangasek>   * bug #1059471
<slangasek>   * bug #1060296
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059471 in mountall (Ubuntu) "2.41 fails to mount root partition" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059471
<slangasek>  * SB shim: still in progress, should be uploaded today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060296 in mountall (Ubuntu) "'df /' reports Filesystem '-'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060296
<slangasek> (then it gets submitted to MS for signing)
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> stokachu: your turn
<stokachu> bug 977959 - needs sponsor for precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
<stokachu> bug 1036834 - needs sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036834 in gdb (Ubuntu Precise) "gdb should be marked "Multi-arch: allowed"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036834
<stokachu> bug 1013211 - needs FFe or needs to be pushed back to updates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013211 in libgnomecanvas (Ubuntu Precise) "[FFe] Please transition libgnomecanvas to multi-arch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013211
<stokachu> bug 683640 - needs sponsor for precise
<stokachu> bug 1053306 - needs sponsor for precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683640 in lsb (Ubuntu Precise) "status_of_proc is returning incorrect error code" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053306 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu Precise) "iscsiadm hangs in recvmsg()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053306
<stokachu> bug 932860 - building and testing as of now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<cjwatson> slangasek: Do you know how long the signing is expected to take?
<slangasek> someone said last week they were going to look at those multiarch sponsorship bugs, was it doko?
<stokachu> done
<slangasek> (who is not here due to German holiday)
<xnox> stokachu: are all of those fix released in quantal?
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * fixed cdrom-detect bug (bug 1028905)
<ogra_>  * input issues for d-i were fixed (thanks paolo for adding the udeb to omap3)
<ogra_>  * worked on an nvidia-tegra driver update, sadly the upstream release is broken (no versions in SONAMES), waiting on a fix
<ogra_>    from nvidia and pondering to upload a driver without GLES support for better SRUability
<ogra_>  * got dragged into a new internal project, waiting for HW
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_>  * thanks stgraber for taking over bug 984276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<ogra_>  * fixed upgrade issue with software-properties-gtk
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * get some ideas for arm specific blueprints
<ogra_>  * fix flash-kernel ability to manually force a kernel version for manual downgrades (bug 1056206)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056206 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "3.0~rc.4ubuntu23: cannot flash an old (previous Q) kernel" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056206
<ogra_>  * finish wikipages for the release
<ogra_> ..
<stokachu> xnox: 977959,683640,1053306 or in qu antal
<stokachu> are*
<stgraber>  - ISO tracker
<xnox> stokachu: ok.
<stgraber>    - Fixed a bug in the time range filter, got IS to deploy in production.
<stgraber>  - Container
<stgraber>    - Upstream work, reviewing patches, maintaining staging branch. Starting cherry-pick of fixes for 0.8 upstream release.
<stgraber>    - Blogged about the new API: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/09/28/introducing-the-python-lxc-api/
<stgraber>    - Helped utlemming setup a script similar to post-qa but for the cloud images
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>    - Some beta 2 work
<stgraber>    - Quite a bunch of queue reviews
<stgraber>    - Some FFe/UIFe reviews
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>    - Some more thoughts on getting NM to talk to unbound, looked at the API, may try to write a plugin later.
<stgraber>    - Fixed madwimax's broken dhclient handling in quantal and precise (was messing with resolvconf)
<stgraber>  - Installer
<stgraber>    - UIFe for the slideshow, reviewed the changes, re-generate the templates, imported the new translations and uploaded
<stgraber>    - Fixed bug 898787
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898787 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "(k|l|x)ubuntu 11.10 failed to install with error in install_misc.py assert cache._depcache.broken_count == 0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898787
<stgraber>    - Went through the high priority casper bugs and fixed a bunch of them: bug 946406, bug 984276, bug 423616, bug 476208 and bug 747888
<stgraber>    - Started preparing the next set of casper fixes, planning another upload later today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946406 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "suspect race condition Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<stgraber>    - Briefly discussed foundations-q-autocreate-preseed with Colin, will try to get some basic implementation during my trip tomorrow
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423616 in casper (Ubuntu) "casper boot doesn't work with some boot options" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476208 in casper (Ubuntu) "casper booting from nfsroot doesn't respect nfs filesystem options correctly" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476208
<stgraber>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747888 in casper (Ubuntu) "casper script 25configure_init clobbers 22serialtty, serial console nearly unusable" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747888
<stgraber>  - Travel/Schedule
<stgraber>    - I'll be at the LTSP hackfest tomorrow and Friday, available on IRC when not traveling.
<stgraber>    - Monday is a bank holiday.
<stgraber>    - I'll be off Thursday and Friday next week, traveling to Europe, will then work on European timezone until UDS.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<ogra_> stgraber, hug everyone from me
<stgraber> ogra_: will do
<ogra_> and send greetings to speedbump
<ogra_> :)
<slangasek> ogra_: when is your hw for the "internal project" due to arrive?
<cjwatson> stgraber: Are you fixing bug 1058179 in addition to having diagnosed it, or should I follow up on that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058179 in ubuntu-defaults-zh-cn (Ubuntu Quantal) "Incomplete language install (language-pack-zh-hans: 1:12.10+20120920)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058179
<ogra_> slangasek, it said 3-5 workdays
<slangasek> phooey, that's a long time
<xnox> stokachu: make sure ubuntu-sponsors are subscribed, those three 977959,683640,1053306 don't and hence are not in the http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ and hence fell out of my radar of "easy sponsorship tasks" I try to do in evenings =)
<ogra_> slangasek, though its not clear yet that i ordered the right thing :P
<ogra_> seemingly there is some confusion ... i might end up with both :)
<slangasek> you didn't request the SCHNELL SCHNELL shipping option?
<ogra_> lol
<ev> slangasek: random stats: we're currently using 1.2 TB with 2.2 TB free. We're effectively doubling that (going from three nodes in Cassandra to six).
<stgraber> cjwatson: I'll see how fixable it's, but I'm expecting a similar mess as 12.04.1 where the image gets really big really quickly
<ogra_> no offer for that
<stokachu> xnox: ? ive been assigning ubuntu-sru
<slangasek> ev: that's apropos the crash pruning?
<stokachu> they are notified of all changes is that not correct?
<stgraber> cjwatson: I assigned it to me now so I don't forget
<infinity> stokachu: ubuntu-sru doesn't sponsor things, just review/accept uploads.
<infinity> stokachu: (Well, we *can* sponsor things, but that's not the point of the group)
<stokachu> ah
<ev> slangasek: that's the amount of space in use on each node
<ev> (we have replication set to 3)
<stokachu> lol so what group should I be adding?
<stokachu> just ubuntu-sponsors?
<ev> we don't save the core files right now
<ev> once they're retraced, they're deleted
<cjwatson> stgraber: I was hoping that size would be less of an issue now
<slangasek> ev: ok - so how fast are we burning through the space at this point? :) Does it grow linearly?
<cjwatson> stgraber: But we should certainly establish that the things QA is testing for agree with what the owners of this image think they want to offer :-)
<cjwatson> stokachu: Just ubuntu-sponsors, yes
<stokachu> ahhh no wonder
<infinity> stokachu: ubuntu-sponsors, if you need a sponsor, ubuntu-sru as well, if it's an SRU bug, though the latter often happens automagically when we run tools to accept things from the queue anyway.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<cjwatson> stokachu: Right, it doesn't hurt to subscribe ubuntu-sru as well but it basically doesn't help
<xnox> stokachu: you need both for SRU: debdiff -> unapproved queue -> accepted in -proposed. Sponsors for the first hop, SRU team for the second hop.
<stokachu> ah ok awesome, makes sense now
<ev> slangasek: doubling every six months
<stgraber> cjwatson: well, IIRC if we actually include everything, we're talking about almost 100MB (all chinese langpacks + dictionaries + ibus tables + the same for english)
<stokachu> excellent, makes sense now thanks
<slangasek> ev: ew?
<stokachu> ill get them assigned to the sponsors queue
<bdmurray> subscribed not assigned
<stgraber> cjwatson: anyway, I'll take a look after the meeting, will fix the package and see how big the difference will be
<slangasek> I thought I was being conservative with the suggestion of linear growth :P
<xnox> stokachu: can't we afford that in chinese-quantal image at the expense of non-chinese langpacks?
<cjwatson> You mean stgraber not stokachu
<xnox> yes.
<slangasek> so our targeted bug count is certainly looking better this week
<cjwatson> And I don't think langpacks come close to offsetting additional language *support*
<slangasek> but as cjwatson pointed out, it's still high
<xnox> stgraber: can't we afford that in chinese-quantal image at the expense of non-chinese langpacks?
<slangasek> looks like we're down from ~60 to 41
<cjwatson> 20 priority High
<cjwatson> Anyone know what's happening with these apt gpg bugs?
<stgraber> xnox: there's no easy way to remove langpacks as the image is built with ubuntu-defaults-builder, not our usual tools and ultimately the problem is that we can't remove the english langpack as various bits depend on en_US.UTF-8 being around (instead of just using C.UTF-8)
<slangasek> cjwatson: I've seen activity on them from mvo
<cjwatson> Can we assign him to them?
 * xnox wants to target some bugs to r-series, and if fixed in r, sru into quantal.
<xnox> (the acient onces)
<stokachu> xnox: how often does this report get generated
<ev> slangasek: :) iz webops problem
<infinity> slangasek: The eglibc one's being done today.
<xnox> cjwatson: about apt-gpg bugs, it wasn't clear to me if it's all fix-released or partitially solved. since there were security uploads done.
<bdmurray> stokachu: the rls-q-tracking one is hourly
<slangasek> cjwatson: bug #1016643 has had SRUs for software-properties in friends; maybe the apt task is no longer relevant?
<cjwatson> xnox: If you're planning on SRUing things into quantal post-release, please set the milestone to quantal-updates so that that's immediately clear from the report
<xnox> stokachu: Last updated at: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:09:36 -0000. My guess is every hour?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016643 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "add-apt-repository downloads gpg key in an insecure fashion" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016643
<cjwatson> slangasek: Indeed, I don't know
<stokachu> ok cool thanks
<cjwatson> And bug 1013681 has been stagnant for a while
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013681 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "make apt-key net-update secure" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013681
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm, why did we agree to be responsible for fontconfig? :)
<xnox> slangasek: I heard Laney likes fontconfig a lot =)
<slangasek> cjwatson: so 1013681 doesn't seem tied to the release, I'm going to -notfixing it
<bdmurray> slangasek: having it appear in the spreadsheet doesn't mean agree ;-)
<infinity> slangasek: but #1008777 may or may not be a bug/misfeature, but it almost certainly doesn't need to be targetted and tracked as special.
<cjwatson> slangasek: sounds good to me
<cjwatson> I would love the report to notice that bug 1053770 is assigned to James Page and maybe that ought to override its own idea of which team it belongs to
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053770 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubuntu-server install takes up too much space" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053770
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you bump that over to desktop in the spreadsheet?
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure
<bdmurray> cjwatson: noted regarding the report
<cjwatson> Of course, you win some you lose some, since we'd gain at least one bug from elsewhere that way
<slangasek> infinity: 1008777> undecided+incomplete, that's not really one we're worrying about as-is (it was clearly targeted by the community, not through the rls-q-incoming queue)
<bdmurray> slangasek: it was targetted by vanhoof
<cjwatson> Yeah, I'm basically ignoring stuff from Medium on down for the purposes of worrying about the count
<slangasek> bug #1026778 filled me with maintainer-script-induced rage; I think we should untarget it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026778 in dictionaries-common (Ubuntu Quantal) "Package does not upgrade cleanly from precise" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026778
<cjwatson> So as far as I'm concerned the current report says we have 20 RC bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: right, but I don't think he was meaning to ask us to fix it
<cjwatson> slangasek: Agreed, at least pending the information requested some weeks ago
<bdmurray> slangasek: oh, so if he was doing it right he would have tagged it?
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah
<slangasek> I think he was targeting it for his /own/ team to work on :)
<xnox> jodh: bug 740390 is interesting, but to be solved not in upstart package?! But still interesting bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740390 in dbus (Ubuntu Quantal) "libdbus-1-3 upgrade does not respawn init, resulting in unclean shutdown" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740390
<cjwatson> xnox: Yes, until stateful-reexec lands, the handful of libraries that upstart itself uses need to do this
<slangasek> untargeting 1017001; still a problem, but only a trickle of bug reports and there's no reason to expect problems here for precise->quantal
<xnox> cjwatson: ok. so I got it right that stateful reexec solves this generically.
<cjwatson> jodh: libnih* has the same problem, FWIW
<slangasek> cjwatson: last comment on 1013681 has you mentioning sudo access on pepo, which we have back now... should we take the server side of that on, or leave it to webops?
<jodh> cjwatson: ta - I'll take a look.
<xnox> cjwatson: 20 - 2 incomplete = 18 ;-)
<cjwatson> slangasek: We should probably take it, but I have a vague memory that it required master key access
<cjwatson> Which puts it past the 12.10 timeframe anyway
<slangasek> ok
 * jodh wonders if we need a dh_reexecinit ?
<slangasek> no
<cjwatson> There are only a handful of libraries here
<cjwatson> No need to invent new infrastructure for them
<slangasek> we need stateful re-exec, and a quick fix for the 4 library packages affected
<cjwatson> 3, since libc has handled this for years
<slangasek> yep
<cjwatson> So one-liner in three postinsts, move on
 * slangasek nods
<stgraber> cjwatson: turns out I forgot to push the changes we SRUed at the last minute for 12.04.1 to quantal, so I'm just going to bring the two ubuntu-defaults-zh-cn back in sync which should fix the bug in the process
<cjwatson> stgraber: Ah, OK, great
 * xnox \0/
<slangasek> so, having turfed 1026778 I guess I'll take another one
<cjwatson> In fact I see that Marc has done libdbus-1-3 in -proposed
<cjwatson> Which I'll copy to quantal nowish
<cjwatson> So it's just libnih to fix
<slangasek> maybe bug #1051110 unless someone else wants to look at that one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051110 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "ucf debconf prompt lands in hidden terminal instead of using gnome frontend" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051110
<bdmurray> slangasek: I'm interested in that one
<slangasek> bdmurray: interested in taking it, or in having me resolve it? :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: having a go at it ;-)
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, be my guest!
<barry> one suggestion, though probably everyone already does this.  if you're looking at a bug, assign it to yourself so we don't step on each others toes.  you can always unassign it if you punt
<xnox> slangasek: bdmurray: well I comment on it, with potential duplicates =) it's not new ;-)
<slangasek> xnox: it's new behavior here for me
<slangasek> xnox: the bug I'm reporting is *not* about the terminal not auto-expanding; it's about the wrong debconf frontend being used here
<bdmurray> bug 1052605 will fall off the next time the report is created
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052605 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "ERROR:root:getListFromFile: no '/usr/share/update-manager/removal_blacklist.cfg' found: exception during Precise to Quantal upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052605
<cjwatson> Yeah, that was due to collisions in the queue I believe.  Thanks for cleaning that up.
<bdmurray> Oh and bug 1058102 will get added
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058102 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "The strings in "ubuntu-release-upgrader" is not translated in UI" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058102
<xnox> slangasek: I see the distinction now. But surely you'd never need terminal to auto-expand if all questions correctly used the GUI debconf frontend.
<infinity> xnox: You're assuming all questions are debconf. :P
<slangasek> xnox: the auto-expanding is still needed in case of bugs
<cjwatson> Indeed.  Consider conffile prompts.
<slangasek> conffile prompts are also proxied by update-manager to the gui :)
 * cjwatson stands corrected
<slangasek> anyway, I think we've devoured that bug list adequately for today
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> Anything else?
<barry> monday is a usa holiday but i'll probably swap it and work
<infinity> Canadia too, and I think I'll take it. :P
<ogra_> pfft
<bdmurray> I'm swapping it also
<ogra_> holidays
 * xnox booked a holiday
<xnox> I can see how monday will not go wrong.
<slangasek> I'll be off Monday
<slangasek> so enjoy :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct  3 15:55:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-03-15.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-03-15.04.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks !
<jodh> ta
<infinity> \o
<xnox> 0/
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-04
<Riddell> pleia2: community council?
<czajkowski> Riddell: jst coming
<Darkwing> Hey czajkowski, Riddell
<JontheEchidna> o/
<czajkowski> dholbach: Gwaihir ping meeting time
<czajkowski> Darkwing: hey ducky!
 * Darkwing meekly waves
<dholbach> :-)
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 17:02:21 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> aloha and welcome to the CC meeting
 * pleia2 waves
<czajkowski> just waiting on some CC folks to join and we shall continue shortly
<czajkowski> #topic Kubuntu Council Catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Council Catch up
<czajkowski> so who's here from the CC ?
<beuno> o/
<dholbach> I am, sort of
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> still busy with the Ubuntu 24h crazyness marathon
<czajkowski> ok then
<czajkowski> so Kubuntu council, thanks for coming along, how are things going with you guys these days ?
<Riddell> well mixed
<Riddell> you'll know that canonical dropped us as a supported flavour earlier this year
 * pleia2 nods
<Riddell> the announcement for that was handled really badly by canonical
<pleia2> yeah, it was very confusing for a lot of people
<Riddell> the only communication to the kubuntu community was an e-mail which would be great for any politician, managed to say nothing about what was happening
<JontheEchidna> (I suppose those of us here from KC should also wave)
<Riddell> and they changed the message about support for 12.04 which I had to read about in someone blog comments
<pleia2> :\
<Riddell> so that was pretty disappointing treatment of the community
<beuno> right
<Darkwing> I'm still recieving some wonderful comments based on that.
<czajkowski> nods was this brought up in the last meeting I think ?
<beuno> Riddell, and you feel that hasn't been "fixed">
<czajkowski> this is the 2nd time we've meet wtih kubuntu council.
<beuno> s/>/?
<JontheEchidna> I'm not sure what could be done to "fix" it. It may be "water under the bridge" at this point.
<JontheEchidna> it's hard to re-do a press announcement ;-)
<beuno> indeed
<beuno> so what do things look like moving forward?
<Riddell> now we have a company who wants to sponsor us by providing a the support service canonical dropped
<Riddell> and I get e-mails from people asking for just this
<Riddell> but they've been in discussions with canonical since april and it still hasn't happened
<Riddell> so that feels really frustrating
<Darkwing> From the community standpoint, people are asking if Canonical is stalling because they still "own" kubuntu
<JontheEchidna> when you say "it still hasn't happened", you are referring to discussions between the company wanting to provide support, and canonical?
<Darkwing> That's the reaction I have recieved.
<beuno> yeah, of course
<beuno> nothing moving forward, no communication
<Riddell> if canonical don't want to support kubuntu I get that (they have to make money) but now they're stopping the community from being able to do useful things
<beuno> doesn't benefit anyone
<JontheEchidna> e.g. canonical saying, "yes, you can provide support for kubuntu"?
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: right, it's their agreement is moving forward but at a snails pace
<czajkowski> Riddell: who have you been dealing with in Canonical?
<Riddell> I'm told there's only 1 issue left to go
<czajkowski> I think we the CC can chase up on this if needed.
<beuno> Riddell, JontheEchidna, Darkwing, we'll chase this up
<beuno> right
<beuno> :)
<Riddell> czajkowski: amanda and steve george
<beuno> k, we'll get on the case and let you guys know
<beuno> this seems the worst of all situations
<Darkwing> This conversation started at last UDS. IMO, this is killing our community of support.
<Riddell> actually it started before then, UDS was when we finally got a meeting
<beuno> of course, uncertainty is terrible for businesses
<Darkwing> Not to mention the trust of the community of Ubuntu/Canonical (They are being lumped into one at this point
<Darkwing> )
<czajkowski> Darkwing: I can understand that, it might have been an idea to have pinged the CC in the mean time if there was a delay
<Darkwing> Of course, I've been out of the daily loop the last 3 months.
<czajkowski> we dont have any control over the Canonical communications but could have chased up on things before now
<pleia2> yeah, always feel free to come to us :)
<pleia2> I'm glad we have these catchup meetings though, good to catch stuff like this
<Riddell> there's no deliberate attempt to restrict kubuntu there, but we're so low down on the priority list it just doesn't get done
<Riddell> another issue is getting sysadmin to update the website
<pleia2> yeah, I saw that ticket from August the other day
<Darkwing> :)
<pleia2> have you followed up with them on IRC?
<Riddell> I don't know who to ping any more
<dholbach> the people in #canonical-sysadmin should be able to help
<pleia2> in #canonical-sysadmin they always have a "vanguard" in the topic
<dholbach> on freenode
<czajkowski> Riddell: like all RTs #canonical-sysadmin in freenode
<Riddell> I'd rather just move off canonical's web servers but I know that'll end up in another months long issue of getting it approved
<pleia2> they'll be the active one at the time (best to ask during weekdays)
<Riddell> I guess I'll try that
<czajkowski> Riddell: do you have an RT number ?
<Riddell> https://rt.ubuntu.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=20296
<czajkowski> there is a vanguard on there all days at least and even some weekends
<beuno> Riddell, how about filing an RT to move the domain off of canonical?  it will at least be a food place to document and discuss
<Riddell> beuno: one thing at a time!  I don't want to distract them!
<beuno> heh
<pleia2> :)
<beuno> smart man
<czajkowski> does ayone else from the council have any other comments
<czajkowski> I've just pinged somone in the IS channel to follow up on the RT
<pleia2> the quetzal+kubuntu logo from that beta post is so great
<Riddell> for the coming UDS I don't know what track to put specs into or who will accept the specs for UDS
<Riddell> czajkowski: you mean someone other than me moaning :)
<czajkowski> Riddell: no I just mean someone elses view as well
<czajkowski> if they want
<czajkowski> it's an open meeting
<Darkwing> Just from my observations in the Kubuntu community
<Darkwing> This is still teh biggest issue
 * pleia2 nods
<Darkwing> Because our hands are completly tied.
<beuno> yeah, I'm really sorry to hear we're still in this situation
<Darkwing> Canonical severed the buisness situation and then we are not allowed to fix it yet.
<sabdfl> hi folks
<Darkwing> Hey Mark
<czajkowski> 18:19 < deej> czajkowski: I'll give the score a bump on it
<czajkowski> 18:19 < deej> It's not a big deal but it's not a five minute thing either
<czajkowski> 18:19 < czajkowski> deej: can you give me an ETA rougly please :)
<shadeslayer> hi :)
<czajkowski> 18:20 < deej> czajkowski: Is it urgent enough that it should take precedence over release stuff?
<czajkowski> 18:20 < czajkowski> not over release stuff no
<czajkowski> 18:20 < czajkowski> but is high as it's reported a few months ago
<czajkowski> 18:20 < deej> Okay, so I'll score it so it should happen pretty much immediately post-release
<czajkowski> so the RT ticket will be looked into
<czajkowski> and again if there are other RTs that need to be followed up on please jsut ask
<Darkwing> So, August RT is not going to be looked at for another month?
<pleia2> release is in 2 weeks :)
<Riddell> that means we'll have out of date content on the website for the release
<Darkwing> Riddell: +1
<beuno> as for UDS
<czajkowski> well we;re in a better place than we were 10 mins ago
<Riddell> yep, thanks
<beuno> Riddell, wouldn't you follow the same process as x/lubuntu?
<Riddell> beuno: I don't know what that is
<beuno> dholbach, you look like a persona who does know!
<beuno> or maybe jono is around?
<jono> hey
<dholbach> beuno, we're in a hangout on air
<beuno> \o/
<dholbach> beuno, which xubuntu/lubuntu process were you referring to?
<beuno> 17:18 < Riddell> for the coming UDS I don't know what track to put specs into or who will accept the specs for UDS
<jono> what can I help with?
<beuno> dholbach, ^
<Darkwing> jcastro... just ask Jorge :D
<jono> Riddell, just put them on the logical tracks (E.g. Desktop for KDE related topics, Foundations for lower level bits, Community for governance)
<jono> and ask the track leads to ensure they get scheduled
<dholbach> beuno, ah sorry - I must have missed that bit - if you choose Desktop, it might help to have a chat with Jason Warner before and if you choose 'other' I think it was Kate in the past
<jono> there will be no Other track this time
<jono> we removed it
<dholbach> ah ok
<jono> we might need to update the website
<dholbach> I'll make a note
<Riddell> I think I'm out of moans :)
<Riddell> oh I forsee issues if ubuntu gets rid of alpha and beta milestones but that's a technical issue rather than community
<pleia2> yeah
<xnox> Riddell: release management was under "other" track last time... wasn't it?!
<Riddell> xnox: yes, dunno what track that'll be this time
<xnox> Riddell: plus there will be feedback from R session where I think that will come up =)
<Riddell> czajkowski: any other questions?
<czajkowski> Riddell: can you please let the CC know the exact outstanding issue that you are wating to hear back on, either here or via email please so we can follow up on this
<dholbach> how is the actual work on Kubuntu coming on? do you have new contributors helping out?
<Riddell> we seem to have a good number of contributors, not sure we're doing as good at recruitment as we have done
<dholbach> I saw a couple of folks who might be ready for upload rights :)
<dholbach> I'll reach out to them again - maybe they'll need encouragement from others as well :)
<Riddell> yeah that would be good
<dholbach> I'll let you know how it goes :)
<Riddell> czajkowski: ok I'll send an e-mail
<czajkowski> Riddell: thank you
<dholbach> apart from recruitment - do you think the kubuntu community is working out fine generally? just in terms of getting things done?
<Riddell> dholbach: for distro development yes I think so
<dholbach> ok great
<dholbach> that's good to know
 * JontheEchidna agrees
 * shadeslayer agree as well :)
<shadeslayer> while we could always do with more people, we're managing well
<czajkowski> any other comments folks ?
<beuno> none from me
<dholbach> no, I think I'm all set as well
<JontheEchidna> all set here
<pleia2> thanks for joining us :)
<Riddell> thanks for inviting us
<czajkowski> thanks folks for coming along
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  4 17:45:29 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-17.02.html
<pleia2> no CoC review?
<czajkowski> oh wwoops
<czajkowski> sorry no there were no mails sent at all
 * IdleOne reviewed it. Looks good.
<pleia2> we only got one applicable comment on the fridge post, "make it easier to sign" :) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback/
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<pleia2> does anyone else have any feedback on the latest revision of the CoC?
<IdleOne> make it easily translatable
<pleia2> *the text of*
<pleia2> ;)
<czajkowski> well the make it easier to sign there is a bug on it but we were witing till version 2 to come out to follow up on that
<pleia2> (the technical problems like translations and making it easier to sign won't really be addressed until the LP folks work down their queue of more pressing bugs)
<IdleOne> nope, the wording is good.
<pleia2> shall we have a session at UDS that is CC + CoC?
<pleia2> then maybe do formal CoC release after UDS
<czajkowski> I have to head
<pleia2> hm?
<IdleOne> head out*
<IdleOne> I think :/
<pleia2> darn, I was hoping she was volunteering to lead that session :)
<IdleOne> lol
<pleia2> I think everyone left, oops
<IdleOne> btw thank for that email this morning :)
<pleia2> anyone able to chair next time?
<pleia2> I guess I can do the wiki stuff, since I won't be able to get to the next meeting
<pleia2> the plan is to meet with the tech board next time, so if someone who will be at the meeting can contact them it'd be great
<sabdfl> pleia2, when are you off?
<Gwaihir> pleia2, can do that, setting a reminder for tomorrow
<pleia2> sabdfl: I fly out on the 10th :)
<sabdfl> great part of the world
<pleia2> yeah, I'm excited
 * pleia2 will take many pictures!
<cielak> alright, I guess we're ready to go
<cielak> anyone here for Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting?
<mfisch> hola everyone
<cielak> hey mfisch
<cielak> okay, I guess it's just us two here
<cielak> mfisch: do you think we should go on with this meeting, or postpone it for when more will be able to attend?
<mfisch> ok
<mfisch> cielak: I'd love to discuss some prelim goals for 0.4
<cielak> alright, so do I
<cielak> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 18:02:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is cielak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<cielak> so since we've released 0.3 about a week ago we hadn't done much
<mfisch> nope
<cielak> there was some interesting feedback from users though
<cielak> Martin Owens has published a cool blog post where he expresses his concerns about default accoms collection
<cielak> and I guess we should indeed open up for a wider discussion concerning how can we improve the structure of these default accom collections
<cielak> maybe that's a thing for UDS actually
<mfisch> I'd love to see that in a mock-up
<mfisch> actually maybe it would be more useful just to layout what stuff we want to cover at UDS here?
<cielak> mfisch: you coming to UDS?
<mfisch> yes
<cielak> awesome
<mfisch> I will be busy and possibly leading some sessions, but I should be able to sneak out when I can
<cielak> we'll make sure you can help with accomplishment discussions
<cielak> one of things that currently bother me is whether we aim for 0.4 or 1.0 now, as Jono refers to it
<mfisch> what are your thoughts?
<cielak> if we release 1.0 we'll guarantee that we will support that version from then on
<cielak> so that milestone would express a level of maturity of the whole system
<cielak> if we go for another 0. release, then we're open for wider changes
<mfisch> most of the changes I'd like to see are in the viewer, but I haven't thought about them enough to figure if they'd need major API changes
<cielak> as far as I know they won't need much
<mfisch> at UDS, i'd like to see if we can get anyone interested in being a core developer on the viewer
<cielak> what we totally need to do is to finally implement the 'showcase' design
<cielak> +1
<mfisch> since neither of us is skilled/interested
<cielak> I guess both me and Jono are actually interested
<cielak> what we're lacking is a high level of expertise in GTK
<cielak> which stops us from making things as we wish them to be
<mfisch> I'm happy to help, but learning GTK is not anywhere near the top of my priority list
<cielak> and to be honest, last 2 release cycles we didn't pay as much attention to the viewer as we did to the daemon
<mfisch> for sure
<mfisch> for example in unit tests or pep8
<cielak> so since the daemon is pretty much stable now, we will be able to concentrate on improving the viewer
<cielak> exactly
<cielak> viewer will also need a major code reorganisation
<cielak> we'll also need to work on the design
<mfisch> yes
<cielak> actually, one of the ideas that came to my mind recently
<mfisch> with some many accomps, it is very cluttered
<cielak> was to increase the use of webkit in the daemon, thus reducing the GTK influence to dialog windows and toolbar
<cielak> I guess we might implement beutiful showcase using javascript
<mfisch> yes
<mfisch> some of that may depend on who can help
<cielak> that would release us from all these spacing bugs, GtkIconView limitations, and it would improve performance heavily
<cielak> true
<mfisch> perhaps one of our sessions should be brainstorming viewer ideas
<cielak> so basically we may want to look either for GTK experts, or someone experienced with javascript etc
<cielak> yeah, I do believe there is a bunch of people who have cool ideas but never have notified us about them
<mfisch> so jono wont be at UDS
<mfisch> I know mhall119 is leading a session
<cielak> if we go for heavier use of webkit, we're gonna need some CSS magic too, but that technology is more commonly known
<cielak> what about?
<mfisch> the online stuff and server infrastructure I think
<cielak> that's cool
<mfisch> cielak: do we have any blueprints?
<cielak> none that I know of
<mfisch> So it sounds like we need to discuss later this week or next setting up some Blueprints
<mfisch> I can help but can't be the main driver as I have other ones to make
<cielak> sure
<cielak> and since jono can't attend, I may end up leading some
<mfisch> ok
<mfisch> sounds like one for sure is viewer focused: fixes, technologies, and features
<cielak> and design
<cielak> another one will need to focus on reorganising default accomplishments collections
<mfisch> yes
<cielak> I'll sum up all concerns known to me in a wiki page, to gather these thoughts in one place
<mfisch> please do
<mfisch>  and post the link for us
<cielak> I will
<mfisch> Lets wrap this up
<mfisch> we'll need to get a few more folks next time
<cielak> yup, and depending on who we'll find we'll decide on viewer's future interface
<mfisch> yes
<mfisch> well I mean our focus for now should just be UDS planning
<mfisch> and encouraging people to attend that remote or in person
<cielak> right
<cielak> planning also includes deciding on blueprints
<cielak> yet I guess that unless we remind of something significant we won't need any more
<cielak> one for server/gallery, one for viewer, one for accoms
<cielak> that's fairly enough
<mfisch> jono may know some more
<mfisch> can you send a summary of this out to the list?
<mfisch> and ask for participation?
<cielak> I'll do so
<mfisch> thanks
<mfisch> I actually have to go to the dentist now :(
<cielak> no problem :)
<mfisch> thanks cielak
<cielak> I think we're set
<mfisch> bye everyone
<cielak> thanks mfisch, bye!
<cielak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  4 18:29:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-18.02.html
<xnox> micahg: Laney: was there MOTU meeting? or am I confused.com?
<Laney> xnox: no, and you are not
<Laney> we just didn't bother to have it
<Laney> like naughty boys and girls
<xnox> Laney: cosmic rays I take it =)
<Laney> those pesky rays
<uros1> Hi all, whats happened with meeting tonight?
<uros1> anybody?
<toddy> uros1: you mean the Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting?
<uros1> yes
<toddy> I don't know. who is in the board?
<uros1> cjohnston,
<uros1> hggdh
<uros1> PabloRubianes
<uros1> greg-g
<uros1> beuno
<uros1> but look
<uros1> he next 22:00 UTC meeting will be at Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 22:00:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.
<uros1> its now, right?
<toddy> yes, i think so. I have the german time but I think I have UTC+2 and I have 00:19 :)
<uros1> yes, i have Belgrade time, same timezone
<uros1> PabloRubianes: what happened with meeting tonight?
<PabloRubianes> I don't know
<PabloRubianes> I miss my bus
<PabloRubianes> :S
<uros1> cool
<PabloRubianes> sorry I am late
<uros1> you are first to come
<PabloRubianes> none from the board is arround?
<PabloRubianes> O.O
<uros1> wellcome
<PabloRubianes> thanks
<uros1> we have small party
 * greg-g waves
<PabloRubianes> uros1, I am trying to get the rest of the board ;-)
<uros1> ok ok
<uros1> :)
<hggdh> uros1: sorry, I am sick, and was fluttering around
<uros1> cool
<uros1> fly?
<hggdh> no, just dozing on and off
<uros1> get well, we need you
<greg-g> sorry about not making quorum, everyone!
<hggdh> all: unfortunately we need 4 members to vote, and we can only gather 3.
<hggdh> as such we have no option but to postpone this meeting
<hggdh> uros1, bojce: I am sorry
<uros1> ok
<PabloRubianes> hggdh, +1
<greg-g> sorry again, all
<bojce> ok
<uros1> next meeting will be?
<PabloRubianes> on the 18th
<uros1> ok
<bojce> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-05
 * skaet waves hello, and goes to line up her starting remarks  ;)
 * smartboyhw waves
<skaet> :)
<mdeslaur> hello
<davmor2> skaet: are they, are you sitting comfortably then I'll begin......?
<smartboyhw> ow two weeks before release
<skaet> davmor2,  I'll start the meeting at the top of the hour.
<skaet> hiya mdeslaur
<smartboyhw> Uh oh skaet did balloons sent his release team mail?
<skaet> smartboyhw,  afraid not.
<skaet> or at least I didn't see anything when I did a final check 10 minutes ago
<smartboyhw> skaet, I told him to do so for a part in the marathon clearly he didn't listen to the advice oh man
<smartboyhw> Hmm....
<ogra_> yo
<skaet> smartboyhw,  if you know of any issues that he may have been concerned about,  feel free to bring up during the meeting.
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct  5 15:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-10-05.
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/10/04: Kernel Freeze and Desktop Infrastructure Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet>     2012/10/09: Translation Deadline at 1030 UTC and Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet>     2012/10/11 - Release Candidate, and Release Note Content Freeze
<skaet>     2012/10/16 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze
<skaet>     October 18 - 12.10 Release
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/10/05 -  2997 (was 2997  - 2012/09/28):   Thank you for the recent push to clean up the feature status.  :)
<skaet> We are still behind the trendline for some of the projects.  Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Thanks to those who sent in status emails,  if there are recent additions, could you please paste the link here in the channel,  since there werenât that many when I checked earlier this morning...
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/001997.html  - QA - plars
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/001999.html - desktop - didrocks
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/001996.html - security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002010.html  - HWCert - roadmr https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/001998.html - kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> - ubuntu one
<skaet> - community - balloons
<skaet> - server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002000.html - linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002002.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002008.html - foundations - ogra_
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu
<skaet> hmm... seem to have run into a buffer limit,  :P,  here's the rest
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002001.html  - kubuntu - RIddell
<skaet> - edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> - xubuntu - knome
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002009.html- Ubuntu Studio - smartboyhw
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002003.html  - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments and Questions
<highvoltage> skaet: stgraber and myself are at a hackfest so apologies for missing the Edubuntu notes
<highvoltage> skaet: afaict there wasn't something specifically noteworthy to report this week
<skaet> thanks highvoltage,   if there are issues,  bring it up today.  But glad things seem to be smooth.
<skaet> usual conventions apply,  please raise hand 'o/', if you have question.
<highvoltage> ok will do
<skaet> welcome everyone
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> we're entering the final push of bug fixes before we go into final freeze next Tuesday.
<seb128> skaet, (desktop -> I'm back from holidays so didrocks->-seb128)
<skaet> Thanks seb,  sorry about that on the summary.
<seb128> (np ;-)
<skaet> any other corrections or additons to the list of status?
<skaet> Daviey,  are you covering for arosales this week?
<skaet> hmm... while we wait to hear from Daviey (and find out if there are any concerns on the server side)
<skaet> want to know if anyone else has concerns not in the weekly status already they want to bring up?
<skaet> key bug fixes needed,  etc.?
<Daviey> skaet: yes
<skaet> Thanks Daviey,   what's on the radar to land between now and Final Freeze?   anything critical?
<Riddell> I've had a mysterious report of installs not finishing which I can't recreate - bug 1062180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1062180 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubiquity won't finish installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062180
<Daviey> skaet: I would be expecting at least one more maas upload (on cd), and various openstack uploads (archive only)
<Daviey> There are a few bugs being caught at the moment, which are a little nasty
<skaet> ok.   we have mozilla decision (and possible upload)  on Tuesday next week.   Can you avoid it?
<skaet> ie.  can we get the maas issues mostly landed by EOD monday?
<skaet> Daviey, ^?
<Daviey> skaet: unlikely
<Daviey> skaet: I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple of smallish things still trickling in towards the end of the week
<skaet> Daviey, we're spinning release candidates up on Thursday, so SRU time after tuesday (Final Freeze),  unless they are release critical.
<Daviey> right!
<skaet> ..
<Daviey> (thanks)
<Laney> is freeipmi in a position to be MIRed?
<skaet> plars, have you seen any sign of bug Riddell mentions?
<Laney> Daviey: ^
 * plars looks
<plars> doesn't sound familiar
<skaet> Riddell,  anyone else able to confirm it?
<plars> I just finished up an amd64 installation a few minutes ago, and I know psivaa has done some this morning also, but we'll keep an eye out for it
<skaet> (and yeah if there is something weird going on, and its common,  nows the time to know ;) )
<Riddell> skaet: xnox had no initial ideas
<skaet> thanks plars.  :)
<jibel> plars, Riddell skaet sounds like bug 1059619
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059619 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Quantal) "Installation hangs on: grub-mount /dev/sdb1 /var/lib/os-prober/mount" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059619
<Riddell> jibel: mm could be, I'll pass that to the reporter
<skaet> thanks jibel,  Riddell
<skaet> ..
<plars> jibel: you have a reliable way to reproduce?
<jibel> plars, yes my 2 laptops
<Daviey> Laney: it was in progress, checking state.. Needed one more fix.
<Daviey> (I'm sure it will be fixed today)
<Daviey> ..
<Laney> ok, just wondering as that component mismatch has been around for quite some time ..
<Daviey> .. but not forgot.
<skaet> ogra_, plars - how are the arm desktop and server test results looking?
<ogra_> pretty good i think
<plars> I'm looking at desktop right now
<plars> about to take a look at server
 * ogra_ doesnt expect any regressions
<ogra_> it will be as speedy and blingy as it was in beta on desktop :)
<plars> I was just discussing an audio issue, and a keyboard issue with ogra_ but nothing affecting installation on desktop at the moment
<plars> for server, I had an issue with the keyboard not working at all, and I know that some people have reported that their hdmi monitor doesn't work on install with -server
<plars> mine works though
<skaet> plars,  thanks.   Can you send an update to your weekly status that summarizes the results of the testing on arm after you finish looking?  Want to make sure we all have a clean picture of what should be good, and what needs to be release noted.
<plars> skaet: yep
<skaet> thanks plars!  :)
<ogra_> plars, yeah, as paolo just said, kbd should be fixed ... wrt HDMI i would blame the monitors
 * Daviey doesn't write regressive code.
 * ogra_ knows there are still a few that dont work with the driver due to broken EDIDs
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ..
<skaet> seb128,  are we likely to get a fix for fontconfig in next day or so,  so we can put ubuntu medium font back in?
<seb128> skaet, not that I know about, we don't have anyone in desktop who knows about fonts/fontconfig
<seb128> not sure if foundation,slangasek is looking at that
<Laney> there's a fontconfig fix needed?
<ogra_> longstanding ...
<seb128> Laney, the libreoffice issue seems to be a fontconfig issue
 * skaet nods
<seb128>  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=38737
<Laney> I thought somebody worked around that in the font itself
<slangasek> seb128: we don't have anyone in foundations who knows about fontconfig either
<seb128> (slangasek, sorry, I keep thinking  (wrongly) that you maintain fontconfig as well as freetype in Debian which is why I listed your name ;-)
<slangasek> :)
<seb128> Laney, who is working on the font?
<skaet> popey,  is thre anyone in your organization that can help here?
<seb128> Laney, well, Sweetshark wrote:
<seb128> "
<seb128> this seems not to be an issue in LibreOffice, but in fontconfig. If I read that
<seb128> bug right, it would need to be fixed either in fontconfig or workarounded in
<seb128> the Ubuntu font itself, but not in LibreOffice." "
<popey> skaet, we had one guy looking at it, but unfortunately had vacation before he could get to the bottom of it
<seb128> Laney, skaet: I've no clue who is in charge of the font or could "workaround in the font itself" there
<slangasek> seems to me that this should be reverted in the font then
<popey> then it was passed to Sweetshark to investigate
<slangasek> it seems very unlikely we're going to fix it on the software side before release
<popey> we have nobody internally who can work directly on the font - we have to contact DM
<seb128> popey, yeah, Sweetshark concluded that there is nothing libreoffice could do there
<popey> yeah
<seb128> and he has been fighting lo-appmenu stuff the whole week
<slangasek> popey: is there a compelling reason NOT to revert the medium change?
<popey> yes, he's busy, we were lucky to get a slice of him
<Laney> slangasek: it already has been
<slangasek> oh, then what's still outstanding for the release?
<Laney> putting it back
<slangasek> I thought this was only about the medium-weight font
<popey> we would like it in, that's all
<skaet> trying to get all the bugs fixed.
<seb128> slangasek, I think the sabdfl was pushing on the bug for us to resolve the issues and restore the font
<slangasek> ah
<popey> that's right
<seb128> I'm not sure how unhappy he and others are going to be if that's not the case...
<seb128> ..
<skaet> popey,  will you take it up with your management and see if we can come up with other options for getting this sorted?
<popey> yup
<skaet> Thanks popey
<Laney> one second
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1054204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054204 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu Quantal) "Libreoffice chooses incorrect font weight" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> That's the bug with the workaround
<Laney> but I understand that we don't have the preferred form for modification for the font, so the change had to be done some other way
<Laney> ..!
<skaet> Laney,  that looks to me like the workaround could be applied,  and we'd get by this impass.   Am I missing something?>
<seb128> we should probably defer to next cycle at this point
<Laney> skaet: I think he did some binary hacking to do it
<Laney> it's not really very satisfactory
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey seb128
<Laney> seb128: yeah, if that's an option then we should indeed
<seb128> I was asking rickspencer3 how problematic that is if we don't get the font in quantal
<Laney> we fixed the Qt side at least
<rickspencer3> hi
<Laney> ahoy
<skaet> rickspencer3, opinion?
<seb128> right, progress, it doesn't seem likely the libreoffice issue will be sorted out soon though...
<rickspencer3> I think it would be a shame not to include it after all that was invested in it, but it doesn't sound ready
<Laney> perhaps mirv could enlighten us about his fix
<Laney> it does seem a bit sad that we're not really able to modify the font
<rickspencer3> skaet, does that help?
<skaet> rickspencer3, yes it doesn't sound ready.   Any thoughts on ways we can get it ready in next few days?
<rickspencer3> skaet, not really, it just sounds too late to get it integrated
<rickspencer3> if it's not working with Libre Office when we drop it in, it just seems like we need to move on to release without it
<skaet> rickspencer3, ok.  putting it on the shelf then for R,  rather than introducing bugs into quantal.
<skaet> ..
<rickspencer3> if we start going around fixing this, fixing that, I fear we will get a cascade of knock on regressions
 * skaet nods
<rickspencer3> this would distract us from perhaps fixing critical bugs
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> I just think we need to move on
<skaet> ..?
<rickspencer3> (sorry to the people who worked hard on it and are passionate about it, I mean)
<popey> sorry, asked pmcgowan to join us
<popey> pmcgowan, feeling is introducing this back in means we divert focus from other critical bugs right now.. and we don't have a fix for this, and no obvious way to get one
<Daviey> Did i missunderstand that it sounds like we have a solution, but involves uploading binary modification..  Is this not a reasonable stop-gap?
<seb128> is that a solution or a workaround?
<seb128> how confident are we that there are not going to be other issues?
<seb128> to me it just seems reality late and we might need to focus the resources on blocker issues next week
<seb128> ..
<pmcgowan> sorry to arrive late
<pmcgowan> best result would be to fomrulate a real fix for LO or fontconfig once and for all
<pmcgowan> do you feel the current symptom is critical enough to not ship with?
<Laney> we "just" don't have the medium weight
<Laney> I think it's fine to defer
<pmcgowan> would we add the font back in SRU with a fix to LO?
<Laney> it's not LO that needs to be fixed, but fontconfig
<pmcgowan> fine
<Laney> I'm not sure that is something the SRU team would accept though
<Laney> slangasek can maybe comment
<seb128> pmcgowan, do you think it's important? SRU worth?
<pmcgowan> there are elements of the UI which never were able to match design because of this, and seems to me an issue that could be resolevd safely by SRU
<rickspencer3> it's nice that our quality situation is such that we can consider changes like this at this late game, but realistically, there are still other moving parts
<slangasek> Laney: I think it would have to be a sadfl in to do it as an SRU
<pmcgowan> you all know the history, its been 2 years and no fix to fontconfig
<rickspencer3> I think introducing this is too much churn
<slangasek> because that's not sanely regression-testable
<rickspencer3> let's ensure that we fix this properly in 13.10, get it banked early in 13.10, and move on
<Laney> 13.04? :-)
<rickspencer3> dang it
<rickspencer3> lol
<skaet> :)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<Laney> fine. Speaking of moving on:
<Laney> ..
<pmcgowan> oh well
<skaet> Thanks all,  I think we have our plan for 12.10 and this issue, unless sabdfl wants to weigh in.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyone else have other critical bug issues to bring up to discuss before I end the meeting?
<skaet> just want to say thank you to everyone involved for all the hard work and passion on getting 12.04 ready.
<smartboyhw> skaet, did you say anything wrong? 12.10 right?
<ogra_> and 12.10 too
<Riddell> that was 6 months ago :)
<ogra_> :)
<smartboyhw> :P
<skaet> lol,  my turn now.
<rickspencer3> someone forgot to update skeatbot
<skaet> yes.  12.10
<skaet> There will be a meeting next week,  and then there will be a break until they start up for 13.04.
<skaet> date for that is TBD.
<smartboyhw> Yay
<skaet> Lets make 12.10 go out nice and with as much quality as we can squeeze in, over the next few days!!   bug fixes still welcome.  ;)
<skaet> #endmeeting
<Daviey> skaet announced 12.10 is canceled, and rickspencer3 announcing 13.04 is delayed until 13.10.. OMG! Ubuntu will have fun.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct  5 15:58:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-05-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-05-15.00.html
<smartboyhw> Thanks skaet
<Daviey> thanks skaet
<skaet> Thanks for that commentary Daviey - :P
<skaet> lol
<Riddell> thanks for your hard work too skaet
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<skaet> Thanks seb128, slangasek, smartboyhw, ogra_, plars, rickspencer3, pmcgowan, Laney, popey, Daviey, Riddell, highvoltage, mdeslaur
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<Laney> \o
<skaet> have a good weekend all.
<seb128> skaet, oh, a quick thing
<Laney> o/
<seb128> firefox 16 release is planned on tuesday
<seb128> I don't know if that's something you want to try to get on quantal iso ?
<skaet> yup seb128,   jdstrand is going to make the call on the mozilla drop for us on Tuesday
<seb128> Chris said to talk to jdstrand about that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I just wanted to point it
<seb128> thanks
<skaet> Thanks for pointing it out.  :)
 * skaet linking Laney was waving bye-bye
<Laney> yeah I realised we use that for raising hand :(
<skaet> :)  no worries,  figured it out.
<smartboyhw> Thanks skaet again:)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-09-30
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand_> hi!
<jdstrand_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 30 16:32:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jdstrand_> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand_> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand_> I'll go first
<jdstrand_> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> you do indeed look happy
<jdstrand_> I'm working on an apaprmor-easyprof-ubuntu upload which should finish out all the policy/reserved vs common policy groups/etc. I'm waiting for bug #1231863 to be fixed before uploading
<ubottu> bug 1231863 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu Saucy) "Local Sqlite databases are still created/stored in incorrect location" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231863
<jdstrand_> heh
<jdstrand_> I also am doing stuff with appstore reviews this week-- various updates for recent changes
<jdstrand_> including working with SDK team on filing path bugs against apps now that they are fixed
<jdstrand_> "now that they are fixed" referes to the path bugs being fixed in the sdk
<sbeattie> \o/
<jdstrand_> but apps are now broken-- so I am going to enumerate them
<jdstrand_> also continue various followups on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=application-confinement bugs
<jdstrand_> I have some patch piloting to do
<jdstrand_> and think there is a decent chance I might pick up an update this week
 * jdstrand_ crosses fingers
<jdstrand_> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I have a short week as I'm off thursday and friday
<mdeslaur> I'm about to push out a few USNs
<mdeslaur> and I have a bunch more in our PPA that are in the testing phase
<mdeslaur> I may get to a couple more before thursday
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week, trying to offload work from jjohansen
<sbeattie> I'm poking at the very early ipc prototype kernel he got me, now that I finally got it booting :/
<sbeattie> I also need to followup with jdstrand on the hardware apparmor policy proposal he had made earlier.
<sbeattie> and I need to track down why the parser commits broke both my jenkins build and the daily apparmor ppa builds
<tyhicks> uh oh
<sbeattie> I think it's the newly added dependency on libapparmor for the parser build
<sbeattie> (but we don't need to solve that here)
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me; tyhicks, you're up
<jjohansen> oh, yeah likely, sorry
<tyhicks> I'm testing dbus, apparmor, and evince uploads that fix several bugs
<tyhicks> One of the fixes in dbus-daemon looks like it may affect some of the dbus policy in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, so I'll need to coordinate w/ jdstrand
<tyhicks> Then I've got an embargoed issue to work on
<tyhicks> Then I've got one more dbus bug to fix (bug #1229280)
<ubottu> bug 1229280 in dbus (Ubuntu) "Eavesdroppers confined with AppArmor can see all method_return and error messages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229280
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'll be working on more apparmor IPC mediation this week
<jjohansen> hrmm I think that is about it for me sarnold your up
<chrisccoulson> jjohansen, oh, i've been looking at your earlier ping
<jdstrand_> I'm not sure sarnold is here yet. chrisccoulson feel free to go ahead
<sarnold> (hello :)
<chrisccoulson> jjohansen, http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/comm-esr24/rev/16e20df57d08 is what removed the ability to set the Follow-Up header
<chrisccoulson> anyway
<jjohansen> chrisccoulson: thanks for looking
<chrisccoulson> this week, i'll hopefully be getting back to my oxide bug / feature list :)
<jdstrand_> sarnold: ah, didn't see you come in :)
<sarnold> jdstrand_: heh, that was me coming in :) sorry.
<jdstrand_> no need to be sorry
<chrisccoulson> we've got pretty good test coverage for the actual API now, although i'm still adding bits (and fixing bugs as I find them)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: any progress on the nss ftbfs?
<mdeslaur> although I guess it's a little late now to get it in saucy
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, oh, i need to get back to that. sorry. i've got my pandaboard all set up here again now so I've got a bit more flexibility with the test environment
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i planned to roll back some of the recent updates to see when it fails. the main suspects are gcc, binutils and eglibc, which were all updated since the last time it worked
 * mdeslaur rolls dice
<mdeslaur> gcc!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, it doesn't matter which one it is. they're all doko's packages anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> that's why i picked them out as suspects ;)
<chrisccoulson> (just kidding btw)
<jdstrand_> heh
<jdstrand_> chrisccoulson: did you have more to report?
<mdeslaur> hehe
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand_, no, i'm done
<jdstrand_> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week, and have two more MIR audits to finish up, MIR and open-vm-tools; I would very much like to do both of them this week, but Mir is a large and complicated codebase, I may not make enough progress to finish both this week.
<sarnold> s/MIR and/Mir and/
<sarnold> at least the unity-system-compositor was written in idiomatic c++11, which isn't one of my strong languages, so the going was slower than I'd like.
<sarnold> but hey I'm getting to learn c++11 while I'm at it, and that's fun. :)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, jdstrand_ back to you
<jdstrand_> :)
<mdeslaur> sarnold: you've been redefining the word "fun" again, haven't you? :)
 * jdstrand_ hugs sarnold 
<chrisccoulson> sarnold, want to port chromium to c++11?
<sbeattie> sarnold: when you're done, can you teach me those bits of c++11?
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: he overloaded the fun operator.
<mdeslaur> return True;
<sarnold> mdeslaur: lol :) yes, just operator_fun() { ... } and away you go!
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: nothanks :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<jdstrand_> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<chrisccoulson> i really want to be able to use final and override
<jdstrand_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/argyll.html
<jdstrand_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/passenger.html
<jdstrand_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gridengine.html
<jdstrand_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/salt.html
<jdstrand_> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openswan.html
<jdstrand_> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand_> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand_> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand_> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand_> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks
<jdstrand_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 30 17:07:54 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-16.32.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-16.32.html
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand_
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand_ :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<pitti> stgraber, soren, kees, cjwatson: meeting in 2 mins?
<stgraber> yep, I'll be there
<cjwatson> Here
<pitti> cjwatson chaired last time AFAICS, so kees today?
<pitti> and as he seems absent, I guess it's my turn
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 30 20:02:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdz> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey mdz, how are you?
<mdz> busy! :-)
<pitti> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<mdz> do we have quorum today?
<pitti> Martin Pitt to contact Mark Shuttleworth to organise nominations and elections
<pitti> done
<pitti> mdz: 4 members, so yes
<mdz> ah great
<pitti> kees still wanted to review MREs, no visible progress there
<cjwatson> re nominations
<pitti> #topic TB elections
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: TB elections
<cjwatson> I guess the plan is to renew just those members who haven't declared an intent to stand down?
<kees> o/
<pitti> oh, hey kees
<cjwatson> as in, temporarily extend terms pending elections
<kees> yeah, so no progress on MRE review. still need to gather bug details. it is not trivial :)
<pitti> cjwatson: I actually meant it "extend membership of the whole board for a month"
<pitti> cjwatson: but if you want to leave now, that's fine too
<pitti> I'm just concerned that suddenly nobody of us would have tb powers any more, which makes some things difficult
<pitti> (cleaning up MPs and similar)
<cjwatson> just wondering if I get to stop turning up to Monday evening meetings ... ;-)
<cjwatson> cleaning up MPs - I think core-dev can do that now
<cjwatson> given that ~ubuntu-branches > ~ubuntu-core-dev
<pitti> cjwatson: well, you can :)
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, good
<cjwatson> I agree that the TB slots in Launchpad shouldn't be left unstaffed
<cjwatson> I got infinity to add me to ~launchpad-buildd-admins, though, so I think that's the main TB power I use routinely
<kees> do we need to have offset terms for the incoming folks?
<cjwatson> If there are others, I would be interested to discover them :-)
<cjwatson> kees: Seems unnecessary
<pitti> ok, other than that I guess we need to wait on sabdfl's reply on a candidate list now, and the actual elections
<pitti> #topic Requiring TB members to be Ubuntu core developers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Requiring TB members to be Ubuntu core developers
<pitti> just as some people already said by mail, I generally agree that TB members *should* be core devs
<soren> o/
<pitti> but I'm not even sure whether we can even instantiate that requirement
<soren> Sorry I'm late.
<pitti> given that ultimately sabdfl decides on the nominations
<cjwatson> My feeling on this is that it can be left up to the good sense of the electorate, given (a) a reasonable slate of nominees and (b) a secret ballot so that there's no undue pressure
<micahg-work> why should this be different than any other board?
<pitti> we could, as a TB, give him a recommendation to consider core-devs only
<pitti> micahg-work: how do you mean?
<cjwatson> I agree that it's a reasonable default, but I can easily imagine exceptions, and indeed some were suggested
<pitti> no other board is "core dev only"
<kees> why not making it a requirement, and then if it needs to be violated, that can be discussed at the time.
<stgraber> cjwatson: I did a milestone cleanup last week which IIRC requires TB privileges so we're good for a bit
<micahg-work> well, to have prerequisites in terms of who can serve
<cjwatson> stgraber: Yeah, that and I suspect that I may run into something with packagesets but we'll see
<micahg-work> even the CC has a public nominations period
<stgraber> cjwatson: oh yeah, good point, that's one TB-related right I use quite a bit
<cjwatson> micahg-work: I think we can have recommendations and/or requirements
<stgraber> (for those that aren't DMB owned)
<cjwatson> stgraber: It might be ~ubuntu-archive.  I'll find out
<micahg-work> sorry
<pitti> it just feels odd to me that an existing board can restrict its own successors
<micahg-work> getting 2 topics crossed here
<cjwatson> What I mean is, I think we can have core-dev as a soft requirement / recomendation, without having to make it a rule and then argue about violations
<pitti> micahg-work: that's fine, your's is the current one
<micahg-work> no, I meant I was bringing up 2 topics :)
<micahg-work> let's focus on the core dev issue first
<cjwatson> pitti: heh, British constitutional principle
<micahg-work> so, maybe I should ask the CC to make it a requirement if the TB doesn't feel it has the right to do so
<pitti> by the same reason we coudl decide that members must only be "pitti", "cjwatson", "kees", and so on
<soren> I still haven't understoo the motivation, to be honest.
<cjwatson> micahg-work: In my case, it's not that I don't think the TB has the right, it's that I think it shouldn't make it a hard rule
<cjwatson> micahg-work: Furthermore, the CC does not have authority over the TB
<pitti> but still, if there's a very active MOTU with a good technical understanding and he gets a majority of ubuntu dev's trust, why not
<micahg-work> I thought the CC has some authority as the ultimate community governance structure
<cjwatson> The governance structure has the CC and TB at the same level, under sabdfl
<soren> If sabdfl and the everyone who can vote wants someone to be in the TB who isn't a core-dev... Why not?
<cjwatson> I was there when it was written
<micahg-work> ok, I guess that's good to know then
<soren> This is news to me, too. I thought CC>TB.
<pitti> also, if someone is a very active, say ~ubuntu-desktopper
<cjwatson> soren: Right, this is my "set general principle but let the electorate decide" preferred approach
<mdz> cjwatson, I recall sabdfl remembering differently and/or wanting to change that, a while back
<pitti> (we have package sets now)
<soren> cjwatson: Right. That's what I tried to express in my e-mail as well, but you managed it much more eloquently :)
<cjwatson> mdz: Well, if so, I don't think http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/governance implies that right now ...
<cjwatson> (And I think it would be unfortunate)
<mdz> cjwatson, I agree
<pitti> micahg-work: under the circumstances (no majority for a requirement, and doubts that we even have the ability to make it a requirement), would you settle for the TB giving this as a reocmmendation to sabdfl?
<mdz> at least on the former. I should probably be neutral on the latter
<cjwatson> FWIW, the current set of nominees being tossed around in private mail doesn't include any non-core-devs, I believe; I don't know if sabdfl has other ideas
<micahg-work> pitti, if that's the best I can get, I guess I"ll take it
<micahg-work> but I was very concerned with the last election
<micahg-work> it seemed to be too close for comfort
<pitti> right, and admittedly I used ~core-dev/+members as input for my own recommendations
<cjwatson> micahg-work: Was it really a problem, given that the electorate made its feelings clear?
 * soren tries to recall the last election..
<micahg-work> cjwatson, I don't want it to get to a point where it is a problem
<mdz> I'm in favor of fewer rules where guidelines and judgment suffice
<cjwatson> The non-dev candidates in the last election placed 10th and 13th
<cjwatson> I don't recall exactly who was core-dev at the time but I think all the top 9 were
<micahg-work> oh, hrm, I thought one placed 7th
<micahg-work> if I"m misremembering, I guess it might be a non-issue after all
<cjwatson> micahg-work: No, history from LP is clear that that wasn't the case
<cjwatson> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_3896e483ca548c95 if anyone else wants to data-mine
<micahg-work> ok, must have been thinking of something else then
<cjwatson> Looks like all of 1-9, 11, 12 were core-dev at the top
<micahg-work> then, I guess the recommendation will suffice
<cjwatson> *time
 * soren doesn't recall whether Clint was core-dev at the time, tbh.
<micahg-work> I'm pretty sure he was
<cjwatson> soren: He was, by a few months
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+members has joining dates
<soren> cjwatson: Are those trustworthy? It used to show the date when someone applied for membership, not when they were approved.
<soren> Bah. It doesn't matter.
<cjwatson> I'n not certain.  Could check, but not within meeting time :-)
<micahg-work> ok, I think that suffices then, thank you all
<cjwatson> soren: In Clint's case, -devel-announce archives confirm that it was approval date
<pitti> so is everyone ok with an explicit recommendation about core-dev to sabdfl?
<cjwatson> +1
<pitti> or any new/other discussion aspects?
<pitti> +1
<pitti> soren, kees, mdz: opinions?
<mdz> +0
<pitti> (mdz is actually an interesting case as he voluntarily stepped out of core-dev)
<mdz> I'll support the consensus
<stgraber> +1
<pitti> and collective wisdom via vote should do the rest :)
<mdz> I think it's worth asking the question, it would be unusual I agree
<soren> +1
<cjwatson> unusual> Yes, I'm definitely in favour of it as a default and as a (strong) recommendation, just have qualms about it as a hard requirement
<kees> +1
<pitti> ack, thanks
<pitti> #topic Provisional MRE Request For KDE Telepathy
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Provisional MRE Request For KDE Telepathy
<pitti> (via email)
<pitti> this seems rather obvious to me really, as these are now under the KDE microrelease policy
<pitti> and don't influence other flavours
<kees> yeah
<pitti> any objections?
<soren> Nope.
<kees> nope; I'm for it.
<pitti> ack, so granted (will do bureaucracy after meeting)
<pitti> #topic ML scan
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ML scan
<cjwatson> Oh, I thought I'd replied to that by mail
<pitti> nothign else that I can see
<cjwatson> I agree, the MRE looks like an easy signoff
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard -> zarro
<pitti> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<pitti> kees: would you do the honors?
<pitti> kees: (as it would have been your turn today)
<kees> yup!
<kees> sorry about being late :(
<pitti> np
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<micahg-work> o/
<pitti> micahg-work: go ahead
<micahg-work> so, I was wondering why there was no public call for nominations for the TB this time around, ISTR one happening last time
<pitti> I'm not sure whether there is a final nomination list already, so far Mark just asked for some recommendations from the current TB
<micahg-work> right, I saw that
<cjwatson> The nomination process is running rather behind, of course
<cjwatson> I think partly because Mark was on holiday
<micahg-work> ok, ISTR dholbach gathering nominations
<micahg-work> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-September/000895.html
<pitti> I'll forward that question to Mark, CC'ing the list (need to write him anyway for the core-dev recommendation)
<micahg-work> the CC just had a public call for nominations as well: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/community-announce/2013-September/000013.html
<cjwatson> I think it'd be a good idea, although bearing in mind that we're late
<pitti> AOB 2?
<pitti> going once..
<pitti> twice..
<pitti> #endmeetnig
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 30 20:41:21 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-20.02.html
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<micahg-work> thanks pitti
 * cjwatson waves
<kees> thanks pitti!
<stgraber> thanks!
<pitti> ok, all mopped up I think
<pitti> good night
<u-k-i-t> Could a tech board member check the emails requiring moderation on their list. It did not make the meeting and does not appear on the web based list archive. Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-01
<cjwatson> u-k-i-t: There's nothing in the queue as of now, and I didn't see anything from you.  If it doesn't appear in the archives then you should resend.
<u-k-i-t> cjwatson: Thanks for the info. Just resent technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com.
<cjwatson> u-k-i-t: Approved
<u-k-i-t> Cheers
<lool> heya
<mandel> lool, hi
<lool> stgraber, ogra_, plars: Oy
<lool> mandel: hey
<mandel> lool, I'm invited, right? :)
<plars> hi
<lool> mandel: you are  :-)
<ogra_> moo
 * stgraber waves
<lool> ok
<lool> so we're missing barry and slangasek who worked late yesterday
<lool> GOOD NEWS: system-image with download manager is in!
<lool> slangasek and barry tested overnight, I've personally tested this in the morning, and it worked
<lool> there are some glitches in the UI now, didrocks broke everything again
<lool> barry: hey!
<barry> hey!
<lool> 15:02 < lool> GOOD NEWS: system-image with download manager is in!
<lool> 15:02 < lool> slangasek and barry tested overnight, I've personally tested this in the morning, and it worked
<lool> 15:03 < lool> there are some glitches in the UI now, didrocks broke everything again
<lool> you dind't miss much
<lool> mandel, barry: Thanks for your hard work on thislanding
<barry> phew :)
<mandel> \o/
<lool> now we need to keep an eye on this
<didrocks> lool: pfff :p
<lool> so didrocks, you have pending changes for progress bar?
<lool> barry: didrocks' code doens't seem to get the progress notifications, is that known?
<barry> lool: yep.  that'll be one of the critical bugs i'm working on for the next s-i
<didrocks> lool: for an intedeterminate state, it's waiting first on getting the current image fixed, but again, it's something that people will not see if the daemon behaves correctly
<lool> didrocks updated the code to be async instead of sync when calling into dbus when talking to s-i, which means the button returns immediately which is confusing, but has an update to change this
<mandel> and I fixed the 200% issue sin the notifications from the u-d-m and was landed
<lool> ok; so next: updated UI code, fixed progress signals, tracking channel aliases, and I'm missing one
<lool> manifests
<barry> phased updates
<lool> and phased udpates, that's hte one I was trying to recall
<lool> ok
<mandel> lool, I'm concerned about bug #1233435
<ubottu> bug 1233435 in ubuntu-download-manager "u-d-m downloads stall if the network configuration changes" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233435
<lool> stgraber: nothing on your side, except we have a major regression in user:group bind-mounts
<lool> stgraber: var/lib/usermetrics is root:root in latest image
<lool> stgraber: not sure what broke it; the cdimage tarballs are correctly 102:104
<mandel> lool, check my last comment in that bug, it seems that we cannot trust the qt libs regarding the state of the network, and that means we might have issues with phones that are performing updates in weak connections
<lool> mandel: so that's actually a pretty common use case indeed
<mandel> lool, I would expect it to be so
<plars> I've had an issue at home for a while, that I haven't seen in the lab, where even though I have wifi set up, sometimes it boots and the default route goes through 3g
<plars> maybe related? not sure
<mandel> lool, I'm digging to find out what is the exact issues but it seams to be a problem in the QSystenNetworkInfo and QNetworkAccessManager in the images
<lool> plars: that's more of an indicator-network / network-manager issue
<stgraber> lool: yeah, I'm debugging that right now
<lool> mandel: so in any case, there should be definitive timeouts more aggressive than 5 minutes
<lool> mandel, barry: Can we make sure at some level that things don't stall for more than 1mn or are retried?
<barry> plars: i know slangasek was seeing some weird stuff yesterday related to 3g slowness.  don't know too many details
<lool> not from scratch though
<lool> mandel: what happens when I'm behind a nocatsplash firewall
<mandel> lool, I can try and so something smart
<lool> I mean behind a paywall
<mandel> lool, hm.. annoying indeed
<lool> didrocks: is a cancel download button planned?
<didrocks> lool: it's in the UI
<didrocks> barry just need to send the progressupdate signal so that it's shown
<lool> barry: ok, so given there's a cancel button, perhaps you want to flip back the download on wifi by default bit
<didrocks> oh, no, it's a pause
<didrocks> if there is something wrong
<didrocks> then, there is cancel
<didrocks> (like a failure)
<lool> barry: but that's low priority anyway
<didrocks> but in the spec, it's only pause first
<lool> since we're not detecting new OS updates anyway
<mandel> lool, I'll take a look at that, but looking at the error with the QNetworkAccessManager::networkAccessible method..
<barry> lool: do you mean, download only over wifi?  i think that's the default now
<mandel> I'd like to know to who I can bother with this issues, any ideas?
<lool> barry, didrocks: Hmm ok, I'm worried that the default user experience might not be what we're looking for, but it's more important that it works solidly
<lool> barry: ok
<lool> mandel: ok
<mandel> barry, lool don't trust that default, I'm not longer trusting QNetworkSystemInfo
<mandel> at least until I test it with a nexus 4
<lool> mandel: you're no longer trusting Qt it seems  :-)
 * barry nods
<mandel> lool, some parts of qt :)
<lool> hmm I thought i had invited folks for status of upgrade tests
<mandel> lool, the ugly ones I'm hiding from other developers
<lool> plars: would you be able to cover these?
<plars> lool: I don't know anything new on the status of that
<lool> plars: ok, what about running tests r/o?  did something change there?
<plars> lool: not yet, though the only things we install are the autopilot packages themselves now. I think there were still a few outstanding upstart and/or autopilot issues preventing the click package testing fully
<plars> lool: but that's being worked on
<lool> ok
<plars> lool: hopefully we should have at least some things tested as click packages this week
<lool> mandel: so not for 13.10, but I understand we want to do a security review and get QML bindings post-13.10, but nothing else but bug fixes for 13.10; correct?
<lool> for now download services is just for system-image, click-scope, click-updater and that's it
<mandel> lool, yes, correct
<lool> alright, I'm not sure what else we have to cover here
<lool> ogra_: anything from you
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> trying 5to get us usable images today ... nothing more from me :)
<lool> cjwatson: if you happen to be around, would you have an ETA on landing of Ursula's branch to have changelogs of touch images?
<cjwatson> lool: No, sorry, I'll see what I can do this week
<lool> stgraber, didrocks, barry: I wanted to propose moving right now to URLs for image changelogs from system-image.u.c json's down to UI, and letting the UI display the URL for now, and switch to displaying HTML later
<cjwatson> Keeps falling off my list :(
<lool> cjwatson: ok, would you think you could tell us the format of URLs in advance?
<didrocks> lool: +1
<lool> that way we can integrate it through the pipe
<cjwatson> lool: Not off the top of my head
<barry> lool: i don't think that changes anything in s-i.  we just feed that data through (well, modulo the array-of-dicts qt dbus issue)
<lool> cjwatson: Ok; would be nice when you know it to pass it to stgraber so that we start including it in json etc.
<lool> stgraber: well, maybe we can provision a fake URL right now
<lool> barry: exactly, it avoids the multiple language, large dbus transfer, and the dbus dict issue
<barry> lool: so, squash the i18n descriptions?
<barry> (that's the only reason why we have to have an array-of-dicts)
<cjwatson> It doesn't look like Ursula's branch actually quite finishes hooking it up to publication
<lool> stgraber: Hmm why don't we just provision the ~ogra URL for now actually?  that would only show changes from previous image, but that's helpful to test  :-)
<barry> and that *would* require changes in s-i
<lool> barry: well your insights appreciated on whether we want to do this or not
<ogra_> lool, the script runs on my desktop and rsyncs the results ...
<ogra_> it might not be reliable (though it was up to now)
<lool> ok
<lool> not like we'd release with it anyway
<ogra_> its fine as interim solution
<lool> just trying to show something to users
<ogra_> but i wouldnt build services around it
<lool> stgraber: your thoughts on URL vs. full description?
<stgraber> lool: alright, problem figured out, reading the backlog now :)
<barry> lool: i don't think it would be too difficult to change (but probably a bit of fun updating the tests).  it's all a matter of available cycles and priorities.  i guess stgraber and i can discuss spec/server changes
<lool> barry: the goal is simplification, if it's a lot of work to change back, then let's not do this
<barry> one thought: if we just drop the i18n part of descriptions, it might not be so bad.  i actually don't think we're deploying any i18n descriptions  *anyway*
<barry> lool: i'd say if we want to re-enable i18n descriptions later, let's not change it now.  if we're ditching them permanently, then maybe i can squeeze it in
<lool> barry: exactly; i18n descriptions wont be there anyway
<lool> ok
<lool> I think it makes sense to have i18n desc later
<lool> in production
 * barry nods
<barry> i'd rather not churn on this atm
<lool> barry: Ok; I'd just want to see some server-side data make it down to the UI, is this hooked up, or should we consider dropping changelogs together?
<lool> like, all empty
<stgraber> lool: so I think it's a bad idea to require the description field to be a URL because of a limitation in some local libraries, I would rather we stick with what we said back in Oakland, which is that this field is a text field which may contain only a URL in which case the UI is supposed to either link to that or show it in a webkit widget
<barry> lool: right now, we don't send the ui *any* descriptions because qt dbus can't handle the data structure.  it's all commented out.
<lool> stgraber: sounds good to me
<lool> barry: so we're missing serialization of dict to string?
<lool> this sounds like json to me
<stgraber> lool: also, the path under which the changelogs will appear on cdimage is irrelevant since system-image will have to process those anyway for the diffs, we won't link to cdimage but instead have some /changelogs/... kind of path on system-image (or in the pool)
<barry> lool: python can send it; qt apparently can't consume it ;)
<didrocks> (can't easily, yeah)
<stgraber> barry: so an alternative is to have the UI give you the locale, then you can just return a string
<mandel> barry, what data structure?
<mandel> barry, I can't believe that...
<mandel> 'til I try at least :)
<barry> mandel: array of dicts of strings
<lool> stgraber: can we start putting some fake server-side data in the images?  like the image number, or just a static string
<lool> stgraber: so that we test the full path of descriptions
<mandel> barry, aa{ss} ???
<barry> mandel: aa{ss}
<barry> yep
<mandel> barry, let me right an example :)
<stgraber> lool: I've been putting something in that field since I first ran the server code ;)
<mandel> barry, if I write a sever thar takes it you will take it as it can be done?
<lool> I personally think this is a non-problem, we can serialize in JSON between client and UI; it's all in the same image, we can update them together later for something nicer
<barry> mandel: that would be great.  please coordinate w/didrocks on that.  for me, it's a simple "uncomment these lines" :)
<stgraber> lool: it currently contains the version_detail content
<lool> I just want something that takes zero time to write and works  :-)
<mandel> didrocks, I'll try to get something for you :)
<lool> stgraber: oh cool
<stgraber> lool: (and I believe QA currently uses that to figure out what's in the image)
<lool> Ok; running out of time
<didrocks> mandel: thanks!
<didrocks> mandel: basically, all Qt experts in the company told that you need to unmarshmall manually
<lool> mandel, barry, didrocks: I'm sure you guys will figure something out; we're running out of time to update system-image and settings though, so let's get this done super soon along the other 13.10 changes   :-)  (no pressure, as usual)
<mandel> didrocks, and that is a piece of cake!
<lool> ok, any last words?
<mandel> didrocks, I'll write the cpp code for you that does it and then copy/paste :)
<lool> outside of "arghhh"
 * barry was going to use 3g's and 7h's
<didrocks> mandel: oh, excellent!
 * lool wondered what 3G had to do with this
<mandel> why are pirate call pirates? because they arghhh
<mandel> sorry I had to say it :)
<lool> and 7 hours
<didrocks> mandel: sorry, i'm more on the landing side since I'm back, so yeah ;)
<lool> alright, thanks all!
 * barry says arggghhhhhhh
<didrocks> thanks
<barry> sorry bad joke
<mandel> didrocks, no worries, I'll take care of that
<lool> barry: yup, I did get it, but had to reread 3d and 7h multiple times  :-)
<barry> :)
<lool> bye!
<barry> cheers!
<mandel> laters o/
<mandel> didrocks, I'l ping you asap with an example
<didrocks> mandel: excellent!
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> o/
<adam_g> o/
<yolanda> hi
<yolanda> shall we start?
<yolanda> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  1 16:02:14 2013 UTC.  The chair is yolanda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<yolanda> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<yolanda> smoser look at / assign bug 1206872 and bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<yolanda> smoser *
<yolanda> ^
<yolanda> anyone has feedback about that?
<jamespage> novaclient won't fix that I suspect
<jamespage> yolanda, bug 1206872 is not specifically important for server this cycle
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<jamespage> so I'd skip that
<yolanda> so we postpone that?
<yolanda> ok , let's continue
<yolanda> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<yolanda> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<yolanda> #subtopic Release Bugs
<yolanda> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1208455
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress]
<hallyn> smb: ^
<yolanda> smb not here, let's continue...
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1213915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New]
<jamespage> still with archive-admins
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1199791
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> just pinged one
<jamespage> zul, ^^
<zul> not done
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/keystone/+bug/1223010
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged]
<yolanda> zul ^
<zul> working on it now
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios3/+bug/1231901
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1231901 in nagios3 (Ubuntu Saucy) "Installing Nagios3 and Apache2 in Saucy does not enable the cgi mod, which is required" [High,Triaged]
<yolanda> jamespage ?
<jamespage> yolanda, yeah - that popped up last friday
<jamespage> rbasak, fyi ^^
<jamespage> I'll pick that up this week
<rbasak> I hadn't seen that - thanks.
<yolanda> ok
<jamespage> rbasak, oh - unless you would like to  - feel free
<jamespage> it needs a2enmod cgi (which used to happen auto with mpm-prefork)
<rbasak> jamespage: I'll put it on my todo and let you know if I get to it first.
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/websockify/+bug/1231970
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1231970 in websockify (Ubuntu Saucy) "[FFe] nova-novncproxy requires websockify > 0.5 - please sync from unstable" [High,Triaged]
<yolanda> zul ^
<zul> watiting for release team
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-cliff/+bug/1227167
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227167 in python-cliff (Ubuntu Saucy) "python-cliff needs to raise Build-Depends on pyparsing to 2.0.0" [Medium,Triaged]
<yolanda> jamespage / smoser ?
<zul> that should be fixed already
<jamespage> zul, can you check and close the bug if so please
<yolanda> zul, i found today that there can be a problem with launchpad branches in python-cliff ?
<zul> yolanda: ?
<yolanda> ubuntu version was newer than the one downloaded from launchpad
<yolanda> zul, python-cliff branch still points to 1.4-1ubuntu1, that is wrong, right?
<zul> right
<zul> ill have a look
<yolanda> cool
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/1227353
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1227353 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please promote maas-dns, maas-dhcp to main" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> action for roaksoax on that one
<jamespage> roaksoax, please add to a suitable seed
<jamespage> (do they need to go on the iso per-chance?)
<roaksoax> jamespage: im uploading a new maas package today
<jamespage> roaksoax, sounds like you are already on top of it  great!
<roaksoax> yep!
<roaksoax> next upload should contain a fix
<yolanda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/uvtool/+bug/1228228
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1228228 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Saucy) "ubuntu is not added to sudo group" [Undecided,Triaged]
<rbasak> This is pending a cloud-init upload I think.
<rbasak> smoser?
<yolanda> ok, let's continue
<yolanda> #subtopic Blueprints
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2
<yolanda> any updates for it?
 * jamespage looks
<yolanda> shall i continue?
<yolanda> jamespage ^
<jamespage> its OK
<jamespage> only one todo outstanding
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-init
<yolanda> smoser ^?
<jamespage> yolanda, smoser not around right now
<yolanda> next one ...
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-2-delivery
<jamespage> thats OK
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<jamespage> just waiting on final release
<jamespage> roaksoax, ^^
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
<yolanda> jamespage ^
<jamespage> yolanda, aside from the radosgw geo-replication agents ceph is looking good
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa
<jamespage> that looks behind
<jamespage> I suspect some items to slip to next release - adam_g?
<adam_g> ya
<adam_g> ill postpone accordingly now
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-havana
<jamespage> generally looking OK
<yolanda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<jamespage> we have one challenge in that OpenStack Havana and Saucy release on the same day
<jamespage> so we will zero-day sru havana into saucy
<jamespage> mongodb: not so great
<jamespage> we won't make the objective to make main this cycle
<yolanda> so this will be postponed?
<jamespage> yeah - just did
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> let's continue
<yolanda> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Nothing on my radar this week
<yolanda> ok
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> no updates from us :)
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi, I have not really made much progress on the nested kvm issue. Did a bit of drbd8 investigation (bug 1185756) and looked into merging back xen-4.3 from Debian to reduce our delta. But I am a bit distracted at the moment by me moving next week. Which will also cause me not to be joining next weeks meeting.
<ubottu> bug 1185756 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Precise) "drbd8-utils not compatible with linux-lts-raring kernel in 12.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185756
<yolanda> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> No updates from me. Any questions?
<yolanda> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<yolanda> anything apart from Cloud Summit and next ODS?
<yolanda> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Need to nominate someone to drive ISO testing for 1) our final Saucy server images 2) subsequent releases. And do we need a process for this? See: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/30/%23ubuntu-release.html "does anyone have an insight on who is doing signoff for the server images?" --rbasak
<rbasak> I'd put that in the agenda but I think you missed it.
<rbasak> In the past, we end up with a last minute request from the release manager and scramble to find someone to do the ISO testing and put the results in the tracker.
<rbasak> It'd be nice to have this planned in advance.
<rbasak> jamespage or smoser: any comments?
<jamespage> I'll do it
<rbasak> Thanks!
<yolanda> ok, any more comments?
<yolanda> let's finish then...
<yolanda> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<yolanda> Next meeting will be on Tue 8th of October
<yolanda> chair will be adam_g
<yolanda> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  1 16:53:07 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-01-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-01-16.02.html
<yolanda> bye!
<hallyn> thanks :)
<arosales> yolanda, thanks for chairing.
<yolanda> np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  1 17:01:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<sconklin_> o/
<cking> \Ã¶
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || cking     || foundations-1308-power-measurement || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Saucy kernel is currently rebased onto the v3.11.2 upstream stable
<ogasawara> kernel.  If any patches need to land in Saucy, they need to be submitted
<ogasawara> immediately.  We are currently 2 days away from Ubuntu Kernel Freeze for
<ogasawara> Saucy.  Any patches submitted after Kernel Freeze will be subject to our
<ogasawara> SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 03 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 10 - Final Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 17 - 13.10 Release (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-10-01 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Oct. 1):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Prep
<bjf>   * Precise - Prep
<bjf>   * Quantal - Prep
<bjf>   * Raring  - Prep
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  1 17:05:19 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-01-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-01-17.01.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-02
<pietro98-albini> Ã¬+*
<pietro98-albini> ops, sorry
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-03
<ev> hi
<jodh> you
<jodh> yo even :)
<ev> YOU.
<barry> ewe
<ev> ha! Well played
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> baa
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  3 15:06:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber xnox cjwatson doko barry jodh ev slangasek bdmurray stokachu
<slangasek> stgraber: you're first :)
<stgraber> oops, one sec
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>    - Updated the specification on the wiki
<stgraber>    - Added phased-percentage support on the server side
<stgraber>    - Extended test coverage (still need tests covering the file generators)
<stgraber>    - Prioritized the work for the system-image clien in 13.10
<stgraber>    - Implemented the boot time hooks for touch (somewhere in the landing queue)
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>    - Moved all the bugs from sourceforge to github (well, fixed most of them rather than move them)
<stgraber>    - Code reviews
<stgraber>    - Some discussions with Google on cgroup management
<stgraber>    - Rewrote lxc-info to use the LXC API and show IP addresses by default.
<stgraber>    - Updated all the API based tools to check the user has control access over the container instead of failing in mysterious ways.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Quite a lot of queue reviews
<stgraber>   - Implemented a script to auto-accept unseeded packages into the archive
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO (hopefully this week):
<stgraber>  - Get to 100% code coverage in the system-image server side tests
<stgraber>  - Write a slightly more user friendly tool to release an image from saucy-proposed to saucy
<stgraber>  - Spend some more time debugging the filesystem unmount sequence, fixing anything that needs fixing
<stgraber>  - LXC upstream work (some more bugs to move to github, website work, ...)
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> ah.
<xnox> skip me please.
<slangasek> cjwatson: your turn then
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed resetting of non-virtual builders (bug 1232131).
<cjwatson>  * Coordinated rollout of buildd slave fixes (bug 993642, bug 1227086).  Much cleanup of broken builders following upgrade.
<ubottu> bug 1232131 in Launchpad itself ""'BuilderVitals' object has no attribute 'failBuilder'" when trying to auto-reset builder" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232131
<cjwatson>  * Fixed recipe handling regression (bug 1234621) and helping to coordinate another rollout to virtual builders now.
<ubottu> bug 993642 in launchpad-buildd "Breaks if the build doesn't produce the expected changes file" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993642
<ubottu> bug 1227086 in launchpad-buildd "Slaves on 32-bit architectures crash on >2GiB build logs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227086
<cjwatson>  * Uploaded apt SRUs (bug 1234691, bug 1234705), to support upgrading Launchpad production to precise.
<ubottu> bug 1234621 in launchpad-buildd "lp-buildd crashes on recipe failures: too many values to unpack" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234621
<cjwatson> Archive:
<ubottu> bug 1234691 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-utils: Ignore APT::FTPArchive::Packages::SHA512 option" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234691
<ubottu> bug 1234705 in apt (Ubuntu Raring) "apt-ftparchive writes SHA256 checksums in place of SHA512 in Sources" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234705
<cjwatson>  * Arranged for generation of http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/saucy_uninst.txt and started cleaning it up.  i386 uninstallables have gone from ~80 to ~30 this week.
<cjwatson> Click:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed crash when unregistering a preinstalled package (bug 1232066), and a regression caused by that fix (bug 1233280).
<ubottu> bug 1232066 in click (Ubuntu) "click unregister on preinstalled app causes exception" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232066
<cjwatson>  * Implemented fat package support.
<ubottu> bug 1233280 in click (Ubuntu) "Permission error while removing preinstalled click before installing any other click" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233280
<cjwatson>  * Extended "click info" interface to allow printing the manifest for a single package (bug 1232118).
<ubottu> bug 1232118 in URL Dispatcher "Don't read manifest files directly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232118
<cjwatson>  * Forced unpacked files to be owner-writeable (bug 1232128).
<ubottu> bug 1232128 in click (Ubuntu) "click package cannot be installed on desktop" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232128
<cjwatson> Installer:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed partition recipe size calculation when partitions are reused (bug 1197766).
<ubottu> bug 1197766 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Precise) "Different partition layout after recovery with keep home partition" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197766
<cjwatson>  * More work on putting the pieces together for bug 1065281 in precise.
<ubottu> bug 1065281 in OEM Priority Project quantal "Installer crashed when trying to partition 4k/4k sector hard disks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065281
<cjwatson>  * Improved support for various mount options (bug 978032).
<ubottu> bug 978032 in partman-ext3 (Ubuntu Precise) "partitioning step doesn't have "discard" as a selectable mount option" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978032
<cjwatson> Touch:
<cjwatson>  * Rearranged build-initrd.sh in initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch to stop doing documented-unreliable things with fakeroot.
<cjwatson> To do:
<cjwatson>  * Review Brian's chroot management branch.
<cjwatson>  * Hunt through GRUB code to try to chase down bug 1229458.
<ubottu> bug 1229458 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<cjwatson>  * Continue chasing down archive inconsistencies.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> doko: your turn?
<xnox> * worked on emulator:
<xnox> - it boots into TTY now
<xnox> - published a prebuild copy at http://people.canonical.com/~xnox/emulator.tar.xz
<xnox> - build fully integrated into phablet branches, one simply does a build for cm_goldfish-eng device.
<xnox> - NEXT: fix & make android LXC container boot and correctly initialise
<xnox> * patch piloting today, mostly trying to get interesting things for saucy
<xnox> * upstart reviews, etc.
<xnox> ..
<barry> system-image: lp: #1196991, lp: #1233094, lp: #1215943, lp: #1221844, lp: #1233379, lp: #1231628, lp: #1229807, lp: #1204618, lp: #1215946, lp: #1229710, lp: #1234703.  s-i 1.6, 1.7, 1.8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196991 in Ubuntu system image "Support the new download dbus service" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1233094 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Upgrade fail" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215943 in Ubuntu system image "should have a consistent "last upgrade date"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1221844 in Ubuntu system image "Support channel aliases tracking" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221844
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1233379 in Ubuntu system image "Reset reactor timeout back to 10m on each non-finishing signal" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233379
<barry> done
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1227212 and bug 1089159 (uploaded as 1.10-0ubuntu3).
<jodh>   - Investigated ssh.override issue on Touch.
<jodh>   - Investigated upstart-local-bridge/upstart-property-watcher issue For
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Session logout takes too long" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<jodh>     sergiusens. Identified a problem with an lxc pre-start but seems
<ubottu> bug 1089159 in upstart (Ubuntu) "ADT test-suite failure" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1089159
<jodh>     there is more work to do there.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - Add extra debug to upstart-local-bridge.
<jodh>   - work on overcoming ptrace limitations issue.
<xnox>  lp: #1231628, lp: #1229807, lp: #1204618, lp: #1215946, lp: #1229710
<jodh> ð¤
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1231628 in Ubuntu system image "Support for phased updates" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231628
<xnox> lp: #1234703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229807 in Ubuntu system image "auto_download setting not set to '1' by default" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204618 in Ubuntu system image "Plumb progress through DBus signals" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204618
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215946 in Ubuntu system image "_NoUpdate sends buggy UpdateFailed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229710 in Ubuntu system image "Add autopkgtests" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229710
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1234703 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Checking for new updates puts the service out of order" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234703
<ev> Short week. Was on holiday in âmerica until Monday.
<ev> Lots of time spent getting caught up after three weeks away.
<ev> Mostly still helping Alex bootstrap the CI team.
<ev> Got up to speed on the Cassandra failures. We had a massive Ceph outage which knocked over Cassandra, which obviously knocked over Daisy. Reports resend every two hours, so I donât believe we missed out on anything, but Iâm still waiting on access to the production database to confirm these sorts of things:
<ev> https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=63860
<ev> We are *way* behind on the existing retracer architectures and we still donât have an armhf retracer for Touch. There appears to have been some work done on this while I was away, but it looks like they dropped it again. I tried following up in #webops, but we are without a vanguard. Iâll touch base with James or Tom later.
<ev> https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58019
<ev> In anticipation of webops requesting it, Iâm migrating the error tracker deployment over to juju-deployer.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> I need to find a replacement for gnetworkmonitor, as it waking up frequently on busy networks continues to piss people off:
<ev> https://bugs.launchpad.net/whoopsie/+bug/991481
<ev> I now have enough details from Acunu to finish implementing the improvements to the average errors per calendar day calculation.
<ev> (done)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 991481 in Whoopsie "Constant dns traffic for daisy.ubuntu.com" [High,Confirmed]
<ev> https://wiki.canonical.com/IncidentReports/2013-09-30-Ceph-Rebalance-Outage is the Ceph outage
<stgraber> ev: bah, it's only causing around 20% of the requests to my DNS servers ;)
<ev> hah
<stgraber> 1 request every 15s per machine on the network and I apparently have a lot of those ;)
<cjwatson> stgraber: And your own substation?
<xnox> ev: anti-social =)
<slangasek> ev: retracers> thanks - I think we need to get this sorted out ASAP, it's alarming that we have no errors data at all about the phone at this stage.
<ev> slangasek: I couldn't agree more. Any help leaning on them would be greatly appreciated
 * slangasek nods
<xnox> ev: what events do you actually want from gnetworkmonitor? you can have whoopsie e.g. start on net-device-up, then each time a connection is established, you can retry uploading reports.
<stgraber> cjwatson: ;) I do occasionaly run LXC load testing with around a thousand container on the same machine, all running whoppsie, then those DNS queries are pretty much the only thing I see going through the network ;)
<ev> Or telling the other Ubuntu Engineering teams to stop taking up all of webops' time
<slangasek> ev: I would've yelled at last week's sync call about this had I realize it still hadn't moved :/
<cjwatson> ev: *cough*
<ev> xnox: from memory, I'm using gnetworkmonitor to know when we're really connected
<ev> in my testing CONNECTED_ALL or whatever the NetworkManager state was didn't convey that
<cjwatson> ev: Hopefully I've finished getting launchpad-buildd upgraded on things for, oh, at least a few weks
<cjwatson> *weeks
<cjwatson> (dear GOD is that process painfully manual)
<slangasek>  * helped with getting final beta out last week
<slangasek>  * discussions about how to do freeze management for phone packages so that we're not putting up additional roadblocks to phone development for 13.10
<slangasek>  * worked with Barry on testing system-image / ubuntu-download-manager so this could land in the phone images \o/
<slangasek>  * fighting with my network, which has decided to stop passing dhcp requests reliably following a power outage over the weekend
<slangasek>  * picked at the edges of the proposed-migration queue (insighttoolkit4)
<slangasek>  * followed through on SRUs for shim update in 12.04.4
<slangasek>  * got /etc/adjtime out of our live images, since it's not used in Ubuntu and just causes confusion
<slangasek> (done)
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager, ubuntu-release-upgrader, ubiquity bugs
<bdmurray> recreated update-manager bug 1202754
<bdmurray> reviewed and merged apt-check (update-notifier) merge proposal speeding it up
<ubottu> bug 1202754 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with SystemExit in exit(): 0" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202754
<bdmurray> worked on click chroot code
<xnox> ev: should we refactor start.ubuntu.com/network-connectivity check from ubiquity?! =) yeah, supporting states in upstart would help here, as upon network check we could run a quick check against start.ubuntu.com and emit the state of "connected"
<bdmurray> worked on ubuntu-release-upgrader not needing gksu
<bdmurray> uploaded procps bug fix for bug 1150413
<xnox> for those jobs that care about htat.
<ubottu> bug 1150413 in procps (Ubuntu Raring) "Cannot allocate memory if process owned by user with large number of groups" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1150413
<bdmurray> tested kernels for bug 1218004
<ubottu> bug 1218004 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "Apple Wireless Trackpad causes kernel oops" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218004
<bdmurray> done
<stokachu> bug 1211876 needs upload, bug 995719 needs sru approval (done)
<ubottu> bug 1211876 in keepalived (Ubuntu Raring) "keepalived reload buggy due to improper ipv4 address comparison" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211876
<ubottu> bug 995719 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "process_name.rb removed in 2.7.11 but still provided by puppet-common" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995719
<ev> xnox: yes - networkmanager has support for something like this, but the tin foil hat crowd nixed it the last time matthieu brought it up
<ev> if memory serves
<slangasek> xnox: we could reimplement everything in Qt and use its network checking apis, I hear those work a treat
<slangasek> (by which I mean, bug #1233435)
<ev> xnox: what I'd really like is an API that I could register an address with. "Let me know when we're connected and you get this response from this URL"
<stokachu> note: 1211876 is a high visibility bug going to mark it as high
<ubottu> bug 1233435 in ubuntu-download-manager "u-d-m downloads stall if the network configuration changes" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233435
<ev> cjwatson: *belated fist shaking*
<slangasek> anyone want to sponsor stokachu's SRU for bug #1211876?
<ubottu> bug 1211876 in keepalived (Ubuntu Raring) "keepalived reload buggy due to improper ipv4 address comparison" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211876
<slangasek> stgraber, maybe you could have a look?
<stokachu> bdmurray: would you mind looking over bug 995719 for approval?
<ubottu> bug 995719 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "process_name.rb removed in 2.7.11 but still provided by puppet-common" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995719
<bdmurray> stokachu: I'll have a look today
<stokachu> bdmurray: thanks man
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #995719, you say there should be no regression.  So it's not possible that something will be relying on this behavior?
<ubottu> bug 995719 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "process_name.rb removed in 2.7.11 but still provided by puppet-common" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995719
<stokachu> slangasek: nothing should be calling it directly, think of it more like a background job keeping up the process names
<stgraber> slangasek: yep, can do
<slangasek> stokachu: so nothing can be relying on those process name changes?
<stokachu> slangasek: nothing in puppet does, no
<slangasek> well, but what about things outside of puppet?
<slangasek> these are the questions we ask for SRUs :)
<stokachu> its not an external api so nothing would be calling it directly
<slangasek> but something external to puppet could be relying on the process name updates
<stokachu> everyone ive interacted with either manually deletes this or has a puppet config that ensures that file doesn't exist
<stokachu> even IS does it
<stgraber> sto they all look good to me, will upload those 3 in a minute
<stgraber> stokachu: ^
<stokachu> stgraber: thanks man
<slangasek> stokachu: that doesn't mean that /everyone/ does it, just the people who are smart enough to be in your friends list :)  we have to consider the SRU implications for those not following best practices, too
<stokachu> slangasek: yea im trying to think of what kind of use case would do this
<stokachu> slangasek: to help me pinpoint where there might be a problem
<slangasek> anyway, we can follow up on that out of band
<stokachu> do we have any puppet experts here?
<stokachu> ok
<slangasek> I'd try the server team for puppet expertise
<stokachu> ok ill ask around and see
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> any other topics?
<stgraber> stokachu: all uploaded
<stokachu> stgraber: thanks again
<stokachu> stgraber: want me to unassign sponsors now?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  3 15:43:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-03-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-03-15.06.html
<stgraber> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> cheers.
<jodh> ta
<czajkowski> aloha
<cprofitt> hello
<sabdfl> hi all
<czajkowski> I'm not sure I can chair as in a work thingy atm
<czajkowski> but am here
<sabdfl> i'll chair till :30 :)
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  3 17:06:31 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> #chair sabdfl cprofitt pleia2 czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski pleia2 sabdfl
<pleia2> o/
<czajkowski> aloha and welcome to this weeks community council catch up :)
<sabdfl> o/
<cprofitt> hello
<sabdfl> nice to see you all again
<pleia2> so we didn't send a reminder email to kubuntu folks, so I think they might not make it
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> #topic Kubuntu catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu catch up
<czajkowski> anyone from Kubuntu around
<czajkowski> ScottK: Riddell ping?
<sabdfl> nice to see the 10k taiwanese school deployment of kubuntu derivative ezgo recently
<cprofitt> +1
<pleia2> cool, I hadn't seen that
<pleia2> http://dot.kde.org/2013/10/02/ezgo-free-and-open-source-software-taiwans-schools
<czajkowski> impressive
<sabdfl> yes, even aseigo was pleased ;)
<sabdfl> shall we invite AOB in the interim, and wrap at :30 if we have no response from #kubuntu?
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
 * elfy is hanging about waiting for AOB :)
<pleia2> http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/governance has been updated for accuracy \o/
<sabdfl> go ahead elfy
<elfy> can we get some help with a couple of RT's - one of which I think I cc'd CC yesterday
<elfy> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=22858
<sabdfl> yes, saw the CC
<elfy> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=22990
<cprofitt> elfy: I believe czajkowski already pinged someone on them
<elfy> one of the ones I cc'd I've seen movement on
<elfy> cprofitt: that'll be why then :)
<elfy> the remember me one is the real pain for people
<elfy> I think what really upsets us is we never get any response till we start pushing via you
 * cprofitt nods
<elfy> though I will say when we had a few of them in our irc channel - they were great to work with
<elfy> czajkowski - thanks for doing that :)
<pleia2> elfy: it's not just you, IS seems to have quite the backlog
<cprofitt> I think it is a metter of building a good relationship with them... which it sounds like you are via the irc
<pleia2> so it takes nudges to prioritize
<elfy> yep I understand there are 60 minutes in an hour :D
<pleia2> and I think the forums stuff is genuinely hard :)
<elfy> pleia2: I don't doubt it
<elfy> but as I said in the mail - elmo and I were discussing trying to get external help
<elfy> then that's as far as it went ;)
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> I'm sure that if there are people around who can help they will
<czajkowski> elfy: elmo is but one member of the IS team and does tend to be the firzt one pinged when in fact it may fall to someone else to fix
<pleia2> if they are interested in open sourcing their sysadmin operation I can offer some pointers ;)
<elfy> but mostly it's about communication - #can-sys isn't really somewhere to go chat with people
<czajkowski> so it's always the best point of contact either
<czajkowski> I'm glad it's getting fixed
<sabdfl> word from IS is:
<sabdfl>  sabdfl: we're currently looking at Ubuntu RT #22950 for the forums folks
<sabdfl>  sabdfl: because we were told that was the priority; I'll make sure 22858 and 22990 are up next
<elfy> czajkowski: I understand he's not the only one - but he was the one talking to me :)
<elfy> sabdfl: ok - thanks - can we make sure that the next one they look at for us is the 22858 one then please
<sabdfl> ok
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> that's the one we catch most flak for at the moment
<sabdfl> ok, ack'd in that sequence
<sabdfl> that team tends to flatline around release
<sabdfl> but at least the sequence is agreed
<sabdfl> that a wrap elfy?
<sabdfl> AOB?
<elfy> yep
<pleia2> just so the community is kept updated - we're wrapping up the LoCo Council appointment process in the CC, so we should have news soon :)
<elfy> thanks all
<pleia2> and speaking of appointments, we're still looking for nominees to be on the CC itself: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/community-announce/2013-September/000013.html
<sabdfl> and the TB, iirc
<pleia2> so if you're great, or know of someone who is great, apply
<pleia2> has the TB sent out their call for nominees yet?
<pleia2> doesn't look like it, I'll make sure it makes it to planet when they do
<pleia2> that's all I have AOB-wise
<sabdfl> doesn't look like we'll get Kubuntu feedback this week
<sabdfl> i'm going to step afk in prep for a call - good to see you all again
<cprofitt> thanks sabdfl
<pleia2> nice to see you, sabdfl :)
<pleia2> we've chatted with kubuntu folks throughout the cycle, so I don't know that there is anything pressing there, and they know where to find us :)
<cprofitt> +1
<sabdfl-afk> (oh and here's to an excellent 13.10 in two weeks - am enjoying the phone and saucy desktop too, hope our various flavours are feeling good about the home straight)
<pleia2> cheer
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ok, I think we can wrap this up then
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  3 17:28:21 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-03-17.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-03-17.06.html
<cprofitt> thanks pleia2
<cprofitt> thanks czajkowski
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-04
<ScottK> czajkowski: I was offline for $work, but I don't think we had much to discuss anyway.
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-29
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 29 16:47:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Jonathan Riddell (jr) who provided a debdiff for trusty for krfb (LP: #1374043). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374043 in krfb (Ubuntu Utopic) "vulnerabilities in libvncserver" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374043
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week I did quite a bit with apparmor and didn't do much else of what I planned. the good news is that utopic and rtm should be good to go with our current caching plans
<jdstrand> this week I'm on triage
<jdstrand> I plan to sponsor apparmor updates as I get them, and fix bugs as they come in
<jdstrand> I need to write policy for the ubuntu-downloader-manager uncompress helper
<jdstrand> and finetune the docker.io policy (I finished lxc and libvirt-lxc last week)
<jdstrand> I plan to adjust UCT for derivative branches
<jdstrand> have some click-reviewers-tools updates
<jdstrand> and patch piloting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up :)
<mdeslaur> I'm currently pushing out some libvncserver updates
<mdeslaur> and have a couple more in the list to work on
<mdeslaur> we may be getting more bash updates and possibly a regression fix this week, but the latest update should mitigate further parser issues
<mdeslaur> so the other updates aren't critical
<mdeslaur> friday I'm off
<mdeslaur> and...I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm currently poking at QRT, fixing up the kernel security checking script to compensate for a change in the reporting behavior around capabilities.
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week; I need to review one last patch from tyhicks on the regression tests and a parser patch from jjohansen.
<tyhicks> thanks for all the patch review you did last week
<sbeattie> I'll also work on pulling an updated snapshot into utopic, as its only been bug fixes since our last snapshot.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm just about done getting caught up from vacation last week
<tyhicks> I'm in the process of committing the apparmor AF_UNIX regression test patches that sbeattie reviewed for me
<tyhicks> I'll also send out an additional patch or two today to add a few more tests that he suggested
<tyhicks> after that, I'd like to get to a few things that I've had to ignore lately
<tyhicks> there are lots of comments that I need to respond to and/or address in the upstream dbus bug for apparmor mediation
<tyhicks> I need to prepare for the upcoming kernel merge window to get a few ecryptfs kernel fixes in
<tyhicks> other general ecryptfs maint duties that I've ignored recently
<tyhicks> and then it'd be nice to get back to the apparmor caching patches I was working on
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor bugs this week. We will see if we can't get the last few kernel/parser bugs finally squashed.
<jjohansen> I need some time on upstream apparmor to prepare for the next opportunity for upstreaming
<jjohansen> And I expect I will also do a little poking around to make sure my bits are in place for an upstream 2.9 release, which should happen real soon now
<jdstrand> jjohansen: if you need help with kernel testing, let me know
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yep, I will
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm working on several MIR audits, chances are good those will take the entire week. I may do some quick apparmor patch reviews as refreshers depending upon how things go.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> sorry, I'm a bit unprepared because I've been talking in another channel :)
<chrisccoulson> hold on 1 sec
<chrisccoulson> so, this week I shall be finishing code reviews (I did one this morning)
<chrisccoulson> and, fingers crossed, landing bug 1260016
<ubottu> bug 1260016 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu RTM) "Add an API to allow defining custom URL scheme delegates" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260016
<chrisccoulson> (I made quite a few changes last week in preparation for this)
<chrisccoulson> other than that, fixing bugs as they come in too
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> re 1260016> \o/
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I asked this in another channel, but since I have you here-- was the 2d canvas accel enabled for nexus devices?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, not yet. justin only provided the strings for krillin. I'm ok with that for now though (in the interests of avoiding scope creep)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I understand that position. personally, as a dogfooder, I wouldn't mind that extending out since they said it worked there too (aiui)
<jdstrand> but anyhoo
 * jdstrand was looking forward to having it on his phone, and was crushed to see it not there ;)
 * jdstrand is not asking to change the decision, just providing user feedback
<jdstrand> ok, moving on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-xajax.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/haskell-tls-extra.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/snack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libicc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freeipa.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 29 17:24:07 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-29-16.47.moin.txt
<ScottK> re bash: Are we done yet?
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<ScottK> jdstrand: I did have a quick question there.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: ^
<mdeslaur> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> Hello.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: the latest update should mitigate any parser issues that are subsequently discovered
<mdeslaur> ScottK: there are a couple of remaining things though
<mdeslaur> ScottK: there is a regression with "at"
<ScottK> OK.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: and redhat's patch doesn't use the same suffix as what upstream chose
<mdeslaur> ScottK: and redhat's patch also broke function names with special chars I believe
<ScottK> Fun.
<mdeslaur> so once everyone agrees on what should ultimately be done, there will probably be an update to get everyone using the same prefix/suffix and other restrictions
<ScottK> I have read that Debian/Ubuntu were lower risk than other distros because we use dash for the system shell.  It would be great to see a detailed risk analysis published and what things we had in place in advance turned out to be mitigating factors.
<mdeslaur> perhaps, but it's hard to say as it depends greatly on what kind of scripts people were using for their CGI setups
<mdeslaur> ie: if they had /bin/sh, they were safe, if they had /bin/bash, they were not
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, sorry, I missed your last message. Do you now have a krillin device?
<chrisccoulson> I don't mind adding the strings for the nexus 4 if it helps
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: well, it's mitigated in that if people are writing CGIs in non-shell languages, but called things like system() or popen(), they'd get dash and not bash.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: ah, yes, also
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I don't have a krillin. I have a mako
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: it would help me, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it if it is distracting you from other stuff
<jdstrand> (though, it would help quite a few people-- I'm not the only mako dogfooder)
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-09-30
<beisner> o/
 * beisner prepares the chair
<smoser> o/
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<beisner> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 30 16:00:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is beisner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> hello!
<gnuoy> hi!
<arges> o/
<beisner> ok, all set.
<beisner> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
<jamespage> o/
<beisner> no action points from last wk
<caribou> o/
<smb> o/
<beisner> other than the usual bp update reminders
<beisner> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<beisner> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<beisner> so final beta & final beta freeze was last wk
<beisner> next milestone in U release:  Oct 9  kernel freeze
<beisner> any other points re: release schedule?
<smoser> and we released beta of cloud images.  (http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/utopic/beta-2/)
<smoser> well, we're in crunch time now.
<beisner> great!  thanks smoser.
<smoser> if you're aware of issues in ubuntu, now is the time to raise them to someone.
<beisner> down to the wire indeed
<beisner> speaking of...
<beisner> #subtopic Release Bugs
<beisner> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<kickinz1> confirm pb with bcache needing a reboot to discard the caching device
<beisner> kickinz1, is there a bug?
<beisner> no critical bugs atm, woot.
<beisner> several bugs unassigned, do we need to pin that down?
<kickinz1> yes if you do a mistake when creating a bcache device (ie swapping backing and caching, wrong backing) it still creats a bad bcache device, but you cannnot control it unti you poweroff the machine, to re-create it...
<kickinz1> I'll chat with rbasak to know who to send this to
<beisner> ok let's make sure we get a big filed
<beisner> rewinding a sec...  there was an action item.  "rbasak to review mysql-5.6 transition plans with ABI breaks with infinity"
<beisner> rbasak appears to be offline
<rbasak> o/
<beisner> hi !
<beisner> rbasak, anything to note on review mysql-5.6 transition / abi infinity action?
<rbasak> We decided to defer the 5.6 move for this cycle.
<beisner> ok thank you
<rbasak> We felt it was too late given the ABI concerns.
<beisner> any other bug issues to raise or discuss?
<beisner> moving on then
<beisner> #subtopic Blueprints
<beisner> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<beisner> as mentioned, it's crunch time.  please be sure your blueprints are updated.
<beisner> #action all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: all to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<beisner> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Hi, everything is good on my side, thanks
<beisner> hi caribou
<beisner> ack thank you
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<beisner> I see a lot of activity in qa iso tracker, looks like test cases are getting the usual late-cycle manual runs.
<beisner> psivaa, anything else to note?
<beisner> on to kernel...
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Hi. One thing I seem to hit in Utopic is that libvirt and xen init seem to be more affected to race against each other on boot up. Though I need to get more data there. Other than that I only wished I could make systemd-logind shut up about things I do not care about anyway (for good). Those attack my senses for a nice login on vt1...  :-P That's all. Questions?
<beisner> smb is always sooo fast to respond!
 * smb tries to be prepared
<hallyn> he has an expect script
<smb> oh yeah, should write a chat bot for myself
<smb> :)
<beisner> is this the real smb? [-.-]
<smb> how do you think about the real smb?
<beisner> does this smb bot have #vote?
<beisner> ok anyway, any discussion re: libvirt xen init issue?
<smb> beisner, no just for info
<smb> I look into it
<beisner> thanks smb
<beisner> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<beisner> i don't think there are any to announce.
<beisner> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<beisner> (quiet in here)
 * beisner checks network connection
<beisner> ok, i think we can all go back to crunch time.
<beisner> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<beisner> +1 week, same place, same time.
<beisner> thank you all
<beisner> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 30 16:24:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-30-16.00.moin.txt
<caribou> beisner: thanks
<kickinz1> thanks beisner
<beisner> lutostag is up next week
<coreycb> thanks beisner !
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 30 17:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<arges> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> o/
<bjf> o/
<chiluk> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> The Utopic kernel remainds rebased on the v3.16.3 upstream stable
<jsalisbury> kernel.  The latest uploaded to the archive is 3.16.0-19.26.  Please
<jsalisbury> test and let us know your results.
<jsalisbury> Also, Utopic Kernel Freeze is next week on Thurs Oct 9.  Any patches
<jsalisbury> submitted after kernel freeze are subject to our Ubuntu kernel SRU
<jsalisbury> policy.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~1 week away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~3 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 30):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 19-Sep through 11-Oct
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          19-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 21-Sep - 27-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 28-Sep - 04-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 05-Oct - 11-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 30 17:05:09 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-30-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<arges> good job joe
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-02
<ofprieto> join #ubuntu-co-meeting,#ubuntu-co
<ofprieto> join #ubuntu-co-meeting
 * slangasek waves
<caribou> o/
<jodh> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  2 15:03:25 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mvo> hi
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> mvo infinity sil2100 slangasek robru stgraber jodh caribou bdmurray barry doko bhuey cjwatson
<mvo> first!
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Diagose failure that Daniel Westervelt had with armhf/maas
<mvo>   (bug in Acquire::GzipIndexes code but already fixe)
<mvo> - Enable all hardening options (including PIE)
<mvo> - Smoe more work on acq-trans branch
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - Deal with libqt5gui5 -> -gles fallout (emulator releated)
<mvo> - Fix gnutls error for public.apps.u.c in their deploy charm
<mvo>   (lp:~mvo/canonical-is-charms/ubuntuone-servers-deploy-public.apps.u.c)
<mvo> - Address review comments for lp:~mvo/click/acquire
<mvo> - Port acquire to use pythons new asyncio (lp:~mvo/click/acquire-asyncio)
<mvo> - Port lp:~mvo/click/sso to pycurl and resolve gnutls issues (missing
<mvo>   ServerName in server config for TLS)
<mvo> - Start discussion with SDK team about lp:~mvo/click/click-check-libs
<mvo> - Work on fixing lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove-2
<mvo>   (tricky because ubuntu-app-launch is on the session bus but click is root)
<mvo> - Port lp:~mvo/click/repository to use pycurl and provide httplib2 like
<mvo>   http_request() function to make porting simpler
<mvo> - Review lp:~cjwatson/click/chroot-name
<mvo> - Update lp:~mvo/click/lp1319790-chroot-fstab
<mvo>     lp:~mvo/click/dont-crash-for-empty-db,
<mvo>     lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove,
<mvo>     lp:~mvo/click/lp1219912-build-exclude,
<mvo>     lp:~mvo/click/framework-info to current click
<mvo> click-bin-path:
<mvo> - Debug/fix crash when nothing has a bin-path
<mvo> sponsoring:
<mvo> - Review/upload ubuntu-core-config/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core
<mvo> system-image:
<mvo> - Upload pycurl based image downloader to the foundations PPA
<mvo> - Debug build failure with pycurl in system-image ppa build
<mvo> - Debug/fix incorrect writes with lambda and write custom writer
<mvo> - Look into unneeded core image dependencies
<mvo> - Port pycurl branch to CurlMulti
<mvo> - make total progress totally reliable
<mvo> - add get_download_manager() factory
<mvo> - update default config for ppa system-image-cli
<mvo> - tweak seeds, do not include recommends in system-image seed
<mvo> (done)
<barry> mvo: \o/
<slangasek> no infinity at the moment
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and feature:
<sil2100>   * Deployment of the build job refactoring
<sil2100>   * Refactoring of the publish job
<sil2100>   * Adding unit tests to the few newly ripped out publish job chunks
<sil2100>   * Work on the dual landing scheme for ubuntu-rtm
<sil2100>   * Start looking into the issue of not all bug numbers landing in debian/changelog
<sil2100> - Debugging and fixing problems in commitlog generation (google API problems)
<sil2100> - Sending out announcements about changes in some of our processes
<sil2100> - Packaging and quilt advice for some upstream projects
<sil2100> - Preparing script for ubuntu-rtm backlog generation
<sil2100> - Health problems, one day of sickness, slow recovery - less work done...
<mvo> barry: get_download_manager() should actually be good now, it will check the bus for udm and use that if its available and otherwise try to fallback to pycurl
<sil2100> (done)
<barry> mvo: that's really great
<barry> mvo: i might still want the setting to override autodetection, but we'll see
<mvo> barry: thats added as well :P
<mvo> barry: via the environment right now though for easy testing
<barry> mvo: yep, makes sense
<slangasek>  * feeling ill this morning, so not a very comprehensive report
<slangasek>  * partner package reviews
<slangasek>  * working on various branch reviews (upstart, apport)
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> robru:
<mvo> barry: whats the best irc channel to ask about asyncio for "normal" files? and if its worthwhile to work on a patch?
<slangasek> #chair mvo
<meetingology> Current chairs: mvo slangasek
<barry> mvo: good question.  *maybe* #python-dev?  i have to see if there's a specific asyncio channel
<slangasek> (as I may not make it to the end of the meeting today)
<slangasek> looks like no robru
<slangasek> stgraber:
<robru> ah sorry, need a minute
<sil2100> robru looked alive ;)
<stgraber> oops, sorry
<stgraber> been preparing for LinuxCon and Plumbers, did the LXC 1.0.6 release, did the LXC 1.1~alpha2 release, got a FFe for that latter and uploaded to utopic
<slangasek> ok, robru after stgraber then
<stgraber> now trying to track down a very annoying kernel bug that's affecting my server
<barry> mvo: https://code.google.com/p/tulip/  (tulip being the code name for the standalone version)
<stgraber> I'll be gone next week except for Friday, then I'll be gone the week after at LinuxCon/Plumbers and the week after that for the device sprint.
<stgraber> fully back on the 27th
<stgraber> (DONE)
<robru> - ripped all knowledge of spreadsheets out of the CI Train jenkins backend. It is now 100% ready to have something else replace the spreadsheet (just waiting for the spreadsheet replacement itself to be ready).
<robru> - work continues on encapsulating the various bits of spaghetti that exist in the ci train code. eliminated knowledge of the json configuration format from the prepare job, check-publication-migration job, and the build job.
<robru> - made it easier to rollback production deployments in case I land something broken
<robru> - resurrect accidentally deleted copy2distro script and brought it up to current coding standards (pep8, pyflakes, etc)
<robru> - fixed all kinds of little bugs and typos and stuff
<robru> - ported most of the bash scripts to sh, except for one in which sh breaks pbuilder for some unknown reason.
<robru> - eliminated an entire class of ridiculous path-traversing code which was hunting for silos... which exist only in a single well-defined location.
<robru> - various and sundry landings.
<robru> - vacation next week!
<robru> (done)
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - bug 1198180 investigations with apw.
<ubottu> bug 1198180 in upstart (Ubuntu) "possible leak in upstart 1.5" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1198180
<jodh> * goget-ubuntu-touch:
<jodh>   - Raised MP to add '--list-images' option:
<jodh>   https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/goget-ubuntu-touch/add-list-images-option/+merge/236510
<jodh> * system-image
<jodh>   - Lots of activity. Currently investigating improvements to upgrade
<jodh>   logic and will then start serious package whittling.
<doko> lxc autopkg tests fail
<jodh> ð«
<stgraber> doko: that's normal
<mvo> jodh: nice work on the goget branch
<doko> ahh
<jodh> mvo: w/e hack :)
<stgraber> doko: see part about the kernel panic on my server :) adt will pass again once the public images server works again
<caribou> * sosreport 3.2 released
<caribou>   - Started to work on Debian/Ubuntu packaging
<caribou>   - Continue implementation of git-dpm
<caribou>   - Found zero-day bug  in apt plugin
<caribou> * Investigation on a iSCSI/LVM/DM-MPIO mount issue at boot
<caribou> * Preliminary work on running kdump-tools at RunLevel S
<caribou> (done)
<barry> caribou: git-dpm ftw!
<caribou> barry: looking forward to your talk !=
<caribou> :)
<bdmurray> modified errors charm and code to create version_info
<bdmurray> research into volume of CORE files being reported to the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> searched for CORE files to be removed from swift
<bdmurray> r537: daisy/submit.py: do not ask for a CORE for packages without Ubuntu or Ubuntu RTM as we will not be able to retrace them
<bdmurray> r538 "daisy/submit.py: add in a metric for retraced crashes missing a stacktrace"
<bdmurray> r540: daisy/submit.py: do not ask for CORE files if the report is missing information required for retracing the crash"
<bdmurray> reworked steve's apport changes for whoopsie-upload-all
<bdmurray> investigation into ubuntu-touch default test whoopsie failure and discussion with plars about it
<bdmurray> reviewed paul larson's change to whoopsie default ubuntu-touch test (approve)
<bdmurray> submitted apport bug LP: #1374544 regarding SegvAnalysis field weirdness
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1376374 regarding repeat processing of crash files
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374544 in apport (Ubuntu) "crash file indicates Disassembly is missing when it isn't" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1376374 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all will run hooks on a corrupt crash file multiple times" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376374
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug LP: #1324833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1324833 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Trusty) "crash handler does not include package version" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324833
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-manager LP: #1374715 regarding CVE urls
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374715 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "CVE links in the updater are invalid" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374715
<bdmurray> uploaded trusty SRU for LP: #1354571 so we'll stop uploading crashes with bad core dumps to the error tracker
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1354571 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "apport-retrace ignores warnings from gdb" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354571
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal fixing sru-report traceback
<bdmurray> â done
<barry> system-image: LP: #1370586; LP: #1376758 (triaged); system-image 2.5-0ubuntu1 (monkeypushing rebuilds, citrain, rtm, testing).  reviewed mvo branch.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1370586 in Ubuntu system image "Add synchronous method to determine if there are known updates" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1376758 in Ubuntu system image "Ability to specify script to call at end of download rather than rebooting" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376758
<barry> debuntu: tox 1.8.0-1. python-concurrent.futures 2.2.0-1.  tons of pycurl bug triaging, conversion to git (for better debian/ubuntu package management), 7.19.3-1-2, 7.19.5-1, 7.19.5-2, and LP: #1376736 (FFE) with 7.19.5-2ubuntu1 ready to go.  debian bug #763770.  debian sbuild creation (fails due to debian bug #607228)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1376736 in pycurl (Ubuntu) "[FFe] update to pycurl 7.19.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376736
<ubottu> Debian bug 763770 in src:pycurl "pycurl: Add DEP-8 tests" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/763770
<ubottu> Debian bug 607228 in sbuild "no way to run setup command inside a chroot" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/607228
<barry> other: reviewed branches for cgoldberg and robru.  falcon upstream branch rebase and back/forth to get landed.
<barry> more git-dpm hacking
<barry> -- done --
<mvo> doko is next
<doko> - vacation last week
<doko> - catching up with email
<doko> - toolchain updates
<doko> - python update
<doko> - a bit of MIR processing
<doko> (done)
<mvo> and now bhuey
<mvo> and cjwatson is not here today
<mvo> no bhuey?
<mvo> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<mvo> anything else? anything interessting happening last week thats worth sharing?
<mvo> I have: asyncio is cool
<mvo> nothingâ¦?
<barry> mvo: continue! :)
<mvo> [TOPIC] kernel crash dumps
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: kernel crash dumps
<mvo> caribou: do you want to talk a little bit about this?
<barry> mvo: yes, it's *super* cool
<mvo> barry: heh :) everybody want to get back to real work eh ?
<caribou> mvo: maybe a brief update if someone is interested
<barry> caribou: yes!
<caribou> the Debian/Ubuntu way of capturing a kernel crash dump is, once kexec triggers a reboot following a kernel panic
<caribou> to run a SysV initscript called kdump-tools that will do the necessary steps to read from /proc/vmcore
<caribou> use makedumpfile to process the /proc/vmcore output and to some filtering and compression and to produce a file
<caribou> in /var/crash/{timestamp dir} directory. the content of the dmesg output is also captured in that directory
<caribou> the system is then rebooted. On startup Apport will produce a Report file in /var/crash that contains the output of the dmesg file
<caribou> that Apport report used to contain the full kernel crash dump but given the size of those files, it is now left in the timestamped directory
<caribou> the kernel crash file can be later analyzed in conjunction with a kernel namelist which includes the debug symbols
<caribou> I recently introduced in the latest version available in Debian (1.5.7) a functionality to allow the crashdump file to be sent to a remote server via SSH or NFS
<caribou> There is also some preliminary work being done to have the kernel dump capture to be executed at run level S
<barry> caribou: is there sensitive information in the crash dump, and if so, does it get trimmed out before it leaves the local machine?
<caribou> there can be, especially if all userspace memory is capture (the default is not to capture them)
<caribou> but network information, in-transit data & such is bound to be present in the crash dump file
<caribou> which is why many user are very cautious of what is being done with those files. Some even refuse to make them
<caribou> available, so sometime the analysis has to be done remotely on their servers
<caribou> For instance, the file system structure, file names, TCP/IP information & adresses, process list with arguments, all of those are easily available with the default setup
<caribou> It is makedumpfile responsability to filter out unneeded/unwanted memory pages
<caribou> that's about all I have if I want to remain brief
<mvo> cool, interessting stuff, thanks for this!
<caribou> oh, for some reason it seems much more difficult to get a crash dump on a laptop/desktop
<mvo> and next week we will have cjwatson talking about (one of the things) he is working on
<caribou> I have an outstanding bug on that
<mvo> oh, what the issue here?
<barry> caribou: thanks!
<caribou> yw
<mvo> more comments/questions? if not it seems we are close to EOM :)
<mvo> #endmeething
<mvo> thanks everyone!
<mvo> #endmeeting even
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  2 15:37:55 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-02-15.03.moin.txt
<caribou> mvo: thanks
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  2 17:13:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> running a bit late, but we're here :)
<elfy> hi
<czajkowski> aloha
<pleia2> #chair elfy YokoZar czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar czajkowski elfy pleia2
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> so, anyone from the Membership board or Kubuntu around?
<elfy> popey might be
 * popey awakens
<popey> wassup?
<pleia2> hggdh, jared, marcoceppi, cyphermox_, about?
<marcoceppi> pleia2: aye
<pleia2> just checking in with the membership board, seeing how things are going, if there's anything we can do to help
<popey> Sorry, I wasn't prepared for this, didn't realise we were going to be called to chat.
<elfy> especially I suspect - are meetings being held with another members for quorum now in general?
<popey> However I have some comments if you want them â»
<czajkowski> sure that would be great thanks popey
<valorie> o/
<pleia2> valorie: yay :) can you stick around for a few minutes so we can chat about kubuntu after membership board?
<valorie> sure
<shadeslayer> hiya
 * shadeslayer passes around some blueberry icecream
<valorie> shadeslayer: we're second on the agenda
<valorie> yum!
<shadeslayer> cool :)
<czajkowski> popey: comments?
<popey> So my observations being back in the membership board...
<popey> 1) Not may people are applying.
<pleia2> yeah, that's been the case for a couple years now :(
<popey> 2) Those that do apply aren't motivated to actually turn up to meetings
<elfy> the second seems odd
<pleia2> yeah, I don't know why that would be
<popey> I have a theory â»
<popey> That there's less cache with being an ubuntu member now
<popey> it's not "special"
<elfy> real life perhaps - but if it was me - I'd contact the board to at least say so
<popey> so why bother
<popey> i mean, in the past we always had no-shows.
<popey> and I don't have hard data for how many we had then vs now
<popey> I guess it's more obvious now, when you have only one person apply, and they don't turn up...
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> popey: do you think more of a fan fair needs to be made or moe visability of what happens?
<popey> Not sure of the solution.
<popey> I think it's probably a symptom of a general decline in contributions
<elfy> was just going to say similar
<elfy> that's something that almost everyone without exception has said in these catch ups
<Riddell> hola
<czajkowski> I did think at one point meeting should be less frequent and do them in larger bunches so people cna tune in and watch
<czajkowski> so more people may become excited about the process
<czajkowski> Riddell: ola once membership is over we'll move to Kubuntu cheers.
<elfy> maybe quarterly
<popey> then you get the problem that "I applied 3 months ago..."
<pleia2> trouble with that is life/timezones get in the way and they miss one chance...
<popey> yeah
<czajkowski> pleia2: nods
<popey> and its not much effort for us to turn up to irc once a month and say "Hello?" if nobody is tehre
<pleia2> could see about encouraging more community members to attend in general, I know I don't really attend anymore :\
<YokoZar> I may've asked this question before, but does it even need to be a meeting?
<czajkowski> or we could do a monthly meeting adn once a quarter the CC joins the meeting to meet the new people and welcome them
<pleia2> YokoZar: transparency is nice
<czajkowski> what about moving it to a hangout ?
<czajkowski> or at least an option of a hangout
<YokoZar> pleia2: I meant as opposed to something like asynchronous public emails.  czajkowski's suggestion would make it more personal, which could be an interesting twist in the other direction
<pleia2> hangouts are not an option for younger folks or those on slower connections
<pleia2> and seems more intimidating to me :)
<czajkowski> pleia2: I don;t think moving completely away from IRC would be good
<pleia2> 4 people judging me is bad enough, when they're looknig at me, eek!
<czajkowski> trying to find a middle ground
<popey> I dont think its a problem with the meeting
<pleia2> also rough on non-native speakers who are better at typing (and we can google translate)
<popey> I think it's a problem with us having no new contributors
<popey> no "pipeline" as they say
<pleia2> yeah, it does seem like a broader issue
<czajkowski> nods
<pleia2> newcomers who I see doing great work are going for membership, there just aren't many of them
<pleia2> popey: do you know if folks working on phones are going for membership?
<popey> Well, thats two areas.
<pleia2> that's where Canonical's team has moved focus to, but I don't see much of them
<popey> 1) people working on the phone platform
<popey> 2) people working on apps
<popey> I see them as two distinct areas
<pleia2> I'm thinking apps
<popey> yes, we encourage core apps contributors to go for membership
<popey> and some have already
<popey> (and got it)
<pleia2> that's good :)
<popey> e.g. people working on clock, email client etc have got their membership as a direct result of phone contributions
<popey> which isn't just "making apps" but providing good feedback / bugs to SDK & platform developers
<popey> we invited some along to sprints as well, which is quite a commitment for them
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so no-one out in the wider community is going to know about that
<popey> about what?
<czajkowski> popey: aye saw that in peoples blogs and on G+
<popey> I tend to announce like a lunatic when a core app dev gets membership
<elfy> popey: ones getting membership directly
<popey> and turn up and cheer
<popey> "directly?"
<elfy> popey: oh ok - not seen it
<popey> they go through the same process as anyone else
<elfy> yes - but do they go to meetings?
<popey> yes
<popey> same process
<popey> no different at all
<elfy> aah ok - read it wrong then - sorry :)
<popey> np
<popey> but traditionally speaking a member was someonw working on the platform
<popey> not someone creating apps _for_ the platform
<YokoZar> Maybe this decline in contribution isn't as big a problem as we think.  Maybe people are shifting to upstream contribution, or we have fewer problems drawing active demand, or similar
<YokoZar> Maybe it's good to be a functional boring piece of software.
<popey> but core apps are a bit "special" in that many  ship by default on the device which is quite a big contribution
<popey> as far as I can see we have fewer people working on things like ubiquity or unity or other desktop bits
<popey> I believe many desktops / distros have this problem.
<popey> (maybe I'm wrong)?
<pleia2> I don't think we'll come to much of a conclusion here
<popey> indeed.
<pleia2> we should continue a discussion about whether contributions are a problem and how to improve things though, maybe on the new community discussion list
<pleia2> ubuntu-community-team@lists.ubuntu.com
<popey> happy to start that
<pleia2> thanks popey
<czajkowski> popey: excellent!
<pleia2> shall we move on to Kubuntu Council?
<pleia2> #topic Kubuntu Council check-up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Kubuntu Council check-up
<Riddell> hola chicos
<pleia2> hey valorie, shadeslayer and Riddell!
<sgclark> hi
<Riddell> shadeslayer gone home but sgclark also here from kubuntu
<pleia2> ah ok, hi sgclark :)
<valorie> greets
<pleia2> during these once-per-cycle checkins, we try to see how things are going with the team, and if you need us in any way
<pleia2> so, how are things?
<Riddell> some points I came up with..
<valorie> exciting times for us imo
<Riddell> We seem to be getting funds from the ubuntu community donations in acceptable time and I see the latest report has been published which is good
<Riddell> Our Kubuntu Plasma5 images are being produced from a PPA and being published on cdimages which is great
<pleia2> \o/
<Riddell> the ubuntu website uses the deprecating term
<Riddell> "derivatives" for ubuntu flavours such as ourselves
<Riddell> would be good to have that fixed http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/derivatives
<pleia2> is there an open bug for it on ubuntu-website in lp? I can chime in
<Riddell> nope, I can file one
<pleia2> (this is something I worked to fix in the latest Official Ubuntu Book, it was a lot of s/derivatives/flavors!)
<valorie> this was discussed years ago
<pleia2> Riddell: thanks
<valorie> and I thought the whole "derivitives" word was banished
<pleia2> yeah, I did too, totally feel your pain here
<Riddell> The technical problems that I feared from Canonical moving away from
<Riddell> community made software are coming true, KDE is recommending SDDM
<Riddell> having moved away from LightDM because of the need to agree to a
<Riddell> special licence to Canonical.  I'm now having trouble making SDDM work
<Riddell> with our images and have nowhere in Ubuntu to turn to for help.
<Riddell> And you've already discussed the lack of new community members which I feel is also due to canonical moving away from community made software
<Riddell> I think it's a sane business decision but I do worry we'll come across a problem in future such as with wayland that we won't be able to fix
<pleia2> yeah
<valorie> me too
<Riddell> this article is about a massive Kubuntu rollout https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/07/07/ubuntu-and-open-source-help-the-city-of-munich-save-millions/
<Riddell> but doesn't mention kubuntu once
<pleia2> :\
<Riddell> canonical needs to credit the community that builds ubuntu
<pleia2> I didn't realize it was Kubuntu either
<Riddell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/1339508 "Misspelling in insights article"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339508 in Ubuntu Website "Misspelling in insights article" [Undecided,In progress]
<Riddell> it's actually a really great process there, they come to akademy and we're have sprints in munich which effectively replace UDS
<Riddell> they didn't contact either munich or us when they wrote that article
<pleia2> that's unfortunate to hear
<Riddell> Reviewing the licence policy situation the Ubuntu liceensing page says all the right stuff http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/licensing "Must allow these rights to be passed on along with the software. You should be able to have exactly the same rights to the software as we do."
<Riddell> which is correct.
<Riddell> The Canonical IP policy continues to be incorrect however http://www.canonical.com/intellectual-property-rights-policy "Any redistribution of modified versions...will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries"
<Riddell> This is incorrect, as all software is free software once it is
<Riddell> distributed to someone that person can further distribute it all they
<Riddell> want under the relevant free software licence.  To claim otherwise is
<Riddell> an insult to the copyright holders, the upstreams who write our
<Riddell> software, and goes against the Ubuntu policy above. It causes worry for our
<Riddell> supporters and is one reason why Blue Systems are looking at other
<Riddell> distributions.  It needs to be changed and I strongly feel it is the
<Riddell> task of the community council to stand up to Canonical on this topic.
<pleia2> we don't seem to have dholbach or mhall119 here today, so I'll be sure to point them at this log to see what can be done to follow up with Canonical on this
<pleia2> (I'm not sure who to contact)
<pleia2> to your last point, this is really difficult, we've tried interacting with lawyers but it seems to be their lawyer language we can't get past
<valorie> it worries me to see Canonical stop pushing freedom as a value
<pleia2> other CC members should chime in here, but we've spent months on this, mostly banging our heads against the wall
<valorie> this could be basic as to why we're not drawing new people
<beuno> pleia2, I think dpm is the person to talk to nowadays
<pleia2> so I assure you we have stood up to canonical, we just don't get anywhere
<Riddell> if they continue to claim something which isn't true the CC should put out a statement saying so
<elfy> pleia2: agree witht hat
<pleia2> we don't actually have any power when it comes to canonical IP, trademarks, etc
<Riddell> the CC statement that was put out was as wishy washy as canonical's public statements on the topic
<Riddell> talking about how lawyers are needed and copyright law is complex is a poor excuse
<pleia2> that's because it was really really hard to write
<pleia2> it's the truth
<pleia2> we can only do so much :(
<Riddell> the canonical IP statment is incorrect, it's that simple
<Riddell> it claims restrictions which go against the core values of ubuntu and free software
<Riddell> it's badly hurting our community
<valorie> I agree
<Riddell> and I'm astonished that nobody outside of kubuntu thinks this is an issue
<valorie> I think most are confused, or just turn off when the whole idea of intellectual property is discussed
<valorie> but ignoring it just weakens the freedoms we have
 * Riddell reports bug 1376860
<ubottu> bug 1376860 in Ubuntu Website "Use of term "derivatives" to describe flavours" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376860
<valorie> if we don't stand up for our own rights, who will?
<YokoZar> I should comment.
<pleia2> Riddell: thanks
<hggdh> pleia2:  I am here now, if you need me
<pleia2> hggdh: thanks, we had some other membership board folks turn up so we don't :)
<YokoZar> As a non-canonical CC member, I independently checked Canonical's copyright claims with my own legal consultation from a copyright expert.
<hggdh> yeah, just read the backlog -- I agree with popey, FWIW
<YokoZar> It is "unclear" whether stuff like the build infrastructure (mere compiling) generates a new copyright, particular in non-US copyright situations.
<Riddell> I have never heard of anyone anywhere suggesting that a compiler adds extra copyright restrictions
<Riddell> some tools like yacc do because they copy their own code into the output, compilers do not
<Riddell> even if they did, to then claim further restrictions would be against the GPL
<YokoZar> I am 100% with you tehre Riddell
<Riddell> and if it was to be added to BSD type licenced packages only then that would need to be stated before that copy is given
<YokoZar> The new copyright would obviously be a derivative of the code itself
<Riddell> but it's not, ubuntu is distributed around the world on hundreds of mirrors
<Riddell> there is no extra copyright licence added to it
<popey> Riddell: it specifically says "modified versions"
<popey> mirrors are not making modified versions
<Riddell> I review every package in the archive as an archive admin and none of them have any extra restrictions from canonical
<Riddell> popey: regarless, this is free software, you can modify all you like
<Riddell> else it's not free software
<popey> This is a trademark issue though surely?
<popey> <- not a lawyer
<Riddell> sure
<YokoZar> And arguably any package built this way is being licensed the same as its code via the license attached to it.
<Riddell> the canonical IP policy talks about that and that's fine
<popey> not a software licensing issue
<valorie> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
<popey> this has nothing technically to do with licensing the software, its use of the name
<popey> "Ubuntu"
<Riddell> but it also talks about needing to recompile binaries, which is nonsense
<mdeslaur> Riddell: how else do you remove the trademarks?
<popey> that sounds like anti-mint-ification to me
<YokoZar> The problem is that "arguably" in there.  The only context this came up was in granting Mint a license to keep doing what they were doing for free and not actually contest it, so I didn't see it as a particular issue at the time
<valorie> "Freedom to distribute (freedoms 2 and 3) means you are free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission to do so. "
<Riddell> that popey and YokoZar are talking about different laws suggests this issue is just deliberately made murky by canonical in the hope of putting off anyone from making a derivative distro
<beuno> it isn't
<beuno> and there's no evidence to that
<popey> indeed, it's not.
<popey> I wasn't involved in the discussion, so my input here is speculation and interpretation.
<Riddell> YokoZar: no, the context I care about is support from Blue Systems who are worried by what it means for kubuntu's freedom
<hggdh> Riddell: I doubt it is canonical murkying it -- copyright, etc is extremely murky due to pressure from old players
<popey> This needs input from Steve George IMO.
<popey> directly.
<Riddell> hggdh: they are making it murky by not stating where the extra restrictions are and if they are copyright of trademark
<popey> His team "owns" that document.
<popey> If it's inaccurate or misleading, or against a license we use, then he is the person who should be accountable for that.
<YokoZar> Riddell: On the particular copyright issue, my best belief is that there is a colorable legal argument to Canonical's claim that you need to recompile to wash away all their rights.  They might lose in court though, but it won't be tossed instantly.
<hggdh> Riddell: ack. I suld suggest the CC pinging canonical's legal
<hggdh> (as popey just stated, BTW)
<beuno> I don't think it's about recompiling, it's about re-packaging things so they don't have "ubuntu" in the name
<YokoZar> And I don't particularly ascribe any maliciousness here, as so far I haven't seen any actual action come out of that policy other than granting Mint 100% permission.  If they took a stand against Blue Systems I'd probably join your side Riddell
<popey> Indeed, this sounds very much like Red Hat -> CentOS rebuilding of yore to me.
<hggdh> yeah
<YokoZar> beuno: The trademark issues are well-established.  But hypothetically they wouldn't require recompiling to remove the branded marks, merely covering them up (eg dpkg-diversions)
<YokoZar> On another technical note, this whole issue gets mooted by reproducible builds
<beuno> sure
<hggdh> in copyrights and trademarks experience has shown that a lot of times what could be ascribed to malice is actually a communication issue
<elfy> I'm not sure that a short catch up meeting with us will do this subject service, we can do as popey suggests and contact Steve George
<YokoZar> And lawyers speak an entirely different language.
<hggdh> +1 (FWIW)
<valorie> it's not like this is a new issue; rather a long-simmering one
<hggdh> I think Riddell's questions are important enough to be looked at
<YokoZar> The specific question I'd have will be regarding how reproducible builds will be affected by copyright (ie, in a world where anyone produces identical binaries to the canonical infrastructure)
<YokoZar> I can only imagine that clarifying they're free
<YokoZar> or, rather, the same license as the package itself
<pleia2> valorie: indeed, and we really have put a lot of work and discussion into this
<Riddell> I would expect the CC to ask that the statement that derivatives "will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries" be removed
<Riddell> which won't happen, this is hardly a new issue
<popey> But you're not a derivative, so why does this affect you?
<Riddell> in which case ask for exactly what restriction allows this to be claimed and how it's compatible with the ubuntu licence policy
<Riddell> popey: because I care about my derivatives
<hggdh> Riddell: at least a more expanded explanation of why this is considered as needed
<popey> okay.
<valorie> we are a derivitive according to the derivitives page
<Riddell> we have large rollouts and people interested in using and investing in kubuntu and I don't want them to be put off as they are being
<valorie> unfortunately
<popey> It does explicitly say you're a special kind of derivative, a flavour, although also spells it flavor.
<popey> Ok, understood.
<valorie> lol
<pleia2> valorie: kubuntu is a flavor, the derivitives page is a bug :)
<popey> I disagree
<pleia2> heh
<popey> â»
<pleia2> alright, we'll start a thread on the CC list to have other CC members look at this too, I don't know that we can come up with any other conclusion at this point
<pleia2> I think YokoZar has some todo list items too
<YokoZar> Yeah I'm gonna consult independent copyright experts again (not Canonical-legal, who must "zealously" represent Canonical only)
<valorie> I hope you can make the needle move
<pleia2> thanks YokoZar
<elfy> thanks YokoZar
<valorie> because this is definitely a problem for us
<elfy> we know valorie
<pleia2> thanks for coming valorie, Riddell and sgclark, you all do great work
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<pleia2> do we having anything else?
<elfy> not here
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  2 18:22:43 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-02-17.13.moin.txt
<belkinsa> FJKong, are you ready for the Membership Board meeting that is in 56 minutes?
<FJKong> belkinsa: yes
<FJKong> belkinsa: I just got up, it is 5:30, lol
<belkinsa> Ah, i see.  We are doing in #ubuntu-meeting, this channel is really for the Board members to talk about applicants if needed.
<belkinsa> Er, nevermind on what I said there.
<belkinsa> Wrong channel!
<FJKong> belkinsa: wrong channel?
<belkinsa> I thought you were in #ubuntu-rmb for some reason.
<FJKong> belkinsa: I just join in that channel
<belkinsa> No, like I said, that channel for us not the applicants, unless someone has a question for us
<FJKong> ah, I see
<iulian> Okay, time to start.
<iulian> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  2 22:00:22 2014 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<popey> hello
<marcoceppi> o/
<belkinsa> FJKong, ready?
<belkinsa> o/
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for October 2, 2014.
<FJKong> belkinsa: yes
<belkinsa> Perfect, good luck.
<FJKong> belkinsa: ready for me
<FJKong> belkinsa: thanks
<belkinsa> :D
<iulian> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<iulian> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<iulian> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<iulian> #voters hggdh marcoceppi belkinsa popey iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa hggdh iulian marcoceppi popey
<iulian> #subtopic Fanjun Kong
<iulian> FJKong: Hi there. Could you please introduce yourself?
<FJKong> iulian: sure
<FJKong> hello everyone, my name is FanJun Kong, I am 29 years old, live in Beijing, China. I work for canonical at Desktop team since last year. Before join canonical,
<FJKong> I worked for SUSE for 3 years.
<FJKong> I start to use linux since 2005.
<FJKong> My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FanjunKong
<FJKong> my lp page is here: https://launchpad.net/~fjkong
<FJKong> sogou pinyin for linux: http://pinyin.sogou.com/linux/
<FJKong> ubuntu kylin : http://www.ubuntukylin.com/
<FJKong> I add that two links, I think it maybe helpful
<belkinsa> Is there anyone here to root for FJKong or say something about him?
<iulian> FJKong: Yep, that's brilliant. Thanks very much.
<popey> Nice feedback from didrocks laney and seb128
<hggdh> yep
<FJKong> the project in my lp is pravite, not public so you may can't see it
<FJKong> private
<FJKong> sorry
<hggdh> FJKong: why private?
<FJKong> hggdh: the code for sogou is not opensource yet
<FJKong> hggdh: It may open later, but not now
<hggdh> OK. Then it does not count here
<FJKong> hggdh: but we still have a opensource version here:https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel
<iulian> FJKong: Thank you for the information. I think we are ready to vote now.
<FJKong> I also join in that one
<FJKong> iulian: ok
<iulian> #vote FJKong to obtain Ubuntu Membership.
<meetingology> Please vote on: FJKong to obtain Ubuntu Membership.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<belkinsa> +1 Keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work! received from belkinsa
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<iulian> marcoceppi?
<FJKong> great thank you, guys
<marcoceppi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: FJKong to obtain Ubuntu Membership.
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> FJKong: Congrats!
<hggdh> FJKong: welcome, and please do keep on :-)
<belkinsa> Alrightty, I will add you the team and tell the world that you are one now.
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  2 22:09:51 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-02-22.00.moin.txt
<belkinsa> \o/ FJKong
<FJKong> thanks for your voting, I will keep working on that
<belkinsa> Thanks everyone for the meeting
<popey> that was quick!
<FJKong> belkinsa: thanks belkinsa
<iulian> belkinsa: I've already added him to ~ubuntumembers.
<belkinsa> Not a problem, FJKong.
<belkinsa> This is belkinsa signing out.
<cwayne> hi guys, sorry I'm late! have I missed the vote?
<hggdh> cwayne: just missed it
<cwayne> :(
<cwayne> hggdh: was there a quorum?
<hggdh> cwayne: yes, we were covered
<cwayne> phew, I'd have felt terrible if we missed it because of me! what was the verdict?
<hggdh> FJKong was approved, and is the newest Ubuntu member
<FJKong> cwayne: hi cwayne
<cwayne> good, I was going to vote +1 too :)
<FJKong> cwayne: thank you
<cwayne> FJKong: np, welcome :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-03
<wayne7> tki
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-05
<bapoumba> ping cariboo907 coffeecat Iowan
<coffeecat> o/
<cariboo907> o/
<bapoumba> heya :)
<bapoumba> hey Iowan :)
<Iowan> Made it!
<bapoumba> :)
<cariboo907> yay! :)
<bapoumba> Guess there will only be the 4 of us
<bapoumba> anyone familiar with the bots and IRC channels stuff ?
<cariboo907> I was just going to ask the same thing :)
<Iowan> Not me, I fear...
<bapoumba> OK, coffeecat ?
<pleia2> this should help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<cariboo907> I've got the wiki page up now
<bapoumba> thanks pleia2, we can always manually save the logs, I do not think we'll have to vote today :)
<bapoumba> please go ahead cariboo907
<cariboo907> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Oct  5 18:04:51 2014 UTC.  The chair is cariboo907. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cariboo907> #chair bapoumba coffeecat Iowan cariboo907
<meetingology> Current chairs: Iowan bapoumba cariboo907 coffeecat
<cariboo907> #meetingtopic fc monthly meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | fc monthly meeting | Current topic:
<cariboo907> have we got anything that really needs discussing?
<bapoumba> well, not sure we'd have anything to vote on
<bapoumba> Items to discuss or state, yes I think so
<bapoumba> The LoCo subforums
<cariboo907> #topic LoCo subforums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | fc monthly meeting | Current topic: LoCo subforums
<bapoumba> Archiving have been done by Elfy and coffeecat
<bapoumba> Any inactive subforum is archived
<bapoumba> inactive = no activity from a year and half
<bapoumba> or so :)
<cariboo907> I've been following along during my move, and had a bit of a conversation on DIscourse with a member of the Colorado LoCo
<bapoumba> If they want to reopen, they should ask for it and use it :)
<cariboo907> I guess the LoCo council didn't really pass on anything to the LoCo's and he was a bit surprised that the sub-forum had disappeared
<bapoumba> would they want to use it again ?
<pleia2> first I heard about it was the post to planet from you folks (thank you for that)
<cariboo907> He stated that the sub-forum had been pretty dead, and that the mailing list was where all the activity was
<bapoumba> several mails were sent to the LoCo council pleia2
<pleia2> bapoumba: right, that's not a public list :)
<bapoumba> well, we could not email each and everyone of them pleia2 :)
<pleia2> you want loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com
<coffeecat> The colorado forum should be visible but closed to posting atm.
<pleia2> I'm including it in the LoCo section of UWN this week, so hopefully more folks will see it :)
<bapoumba> if some LoCo wish to have their forum reopened and use it, no problem
<cariboo907> at the time, a couple of days agoa it wasn't visible yet
<bapoumba> thanks pleia2
<bapoumba> ah ok cariboo907
<cariboo907> anything else to say about the topic?
<bapoumba> not here
<Iowan> No
<cariboo907> coffeecat, ?
<bapoumba> may be forward Elfy' mail to loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<coffeecat> no
<cariboo907> OK, we can do that
<bapoumba> +1
 * bapoumba searching through emails ..
<cariboo907> I have it on my utopic install, which is a bit broken at the moment :)
<bapoumba> email forwarded
<cariboo907> Thanks bapoumba
<Iowan> Danke!
<bapoumba> From my Utopic install :p
<bapoumba> Welcome :)
<bapoumba> anything else ?
<bapoumba> we'd need to ping IS in their own channel for the default avatar stuff
<cariboo907> I haven't got anything else
<Iowan> Nothing here
<coffeecat> nothing here.
<bapoumba> it is becoming quite urgent
<bapoumba> other than that, nothing else here
<cariboo907> I expect they'll get back to us after the 10th :)
<bapoumba> that would be really too bad :(
<cariboo907> they have been really slow to respond to anything
<bapoumba> do you know the channel address ?
<cariboo907> give me a minute while I copy my notes from utopic
<bapoumba> ok
<cariboo907> it's #canonical-sysadmin
<bapoumba> Hmm, no one is vanguard atm ..
<bapoumba> OK, posted a message
<bapoumba> we'll see
<bapoumba> I have nothing else :)
<cariboo907> if there's nothing else, we can end the meeting
<bapoumba> yup
<coffeecat> nothing here
<Iowan> Nothing here
<bapoumba> do you know how to file the logs ?
<cariboo907> OK
<cariboo907> I think it does it automagically when you end the meeting
<bapoumba> OK
<cariboo907> we'll see
<cariboo907> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Oct  5 18:30:49 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-05-18.04.moin.txt
<bapoumba> how do you get the link to post on the FC wiki page ?
<bapoumba> ah ok :D
<Iowan> Honeypot!
<bapoumba> this bot is quite friendly :)
<cariboo907> it does seem to work well
<bapoumba> yes
<cariboo907> it's time for me to head off to bed, I've been up since 17:30 yesterday
<bapoumba> thanks cariboo907 and sweet dreams :)
<cariboo907> thanks bapoumba
<bapoumba> will update the log page
<Iowan> I had a work call-in - 10:30 - 3:30
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-28
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<xnox> yo
<bdmurray> hi
<Laney> pishuilu: just checking you are here for the DMB meeting?
<pishuilu> Laney: hi, I am here.
<Laney> ok, we will be with you shortly
<Laney> let's go
<pishuilu> ok
<Laney> #startmeeting DMB 2015-09-28
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 28 15:04:26 2015 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-09-28 Meeting | Current topic:
<Laney> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-09-28 Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<Laney> #subtopic bdmurray to setup a pad for the dmb to collaborate on response for noskcaj
<Laney> any news?
<bdmurray> I ended up creating a bzr branch
<Laney> I missed that
<Laney> does it have anything useful in?
<bdmurray> I don't think so.
<Laney> what's next then?
<bdmurray> Nope, nothing in it.
<bdmurray> I think "micahg to get Noskcaj feedback"
<Laney> bit concerned that this drags on
<bdmurray> well we could start adding our own feedback then
<Laney> right
<Laney> I didn't -1 the application but those who did could start to work on it...
<Laney> xnox: that includes you
<Laney> #subtopic Laney to start an onboarding page for new dmb members
<Laney> I didn't do this yet :(
<Laney> I am kind of annoyed at myself for not getting around to it
<Laney> and I will put it on my calendar for friday afternoon
<Laney> done
<Laney> #action laney stop slacking and write onboarding page
<meetingology> ACTION: laney stop slacking and write onboarding page
<Laney> #subtopic michag to confirm if mozc packageset change happened
<Laney> did, yes?
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-input-methods-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'input-methods' in wily
<Laney> #subtopic michag to follow up with Unit193 about their application and a meeting date
<Laney> NFI
<Laney> #action michag to follow up with Unit193 about their application and a meeting date
<meetingology> ACTION: michag to follow up with Unit193 about their application and a meeting date
<bdmurray> I seem to recall that happening but not the outcome.
<Laney> can't find any mail anyway
<Laney> #topic PPU application: ShuiLu Pi for ubuntukylin-default-settings
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-09-28 Meeting | Current topic: PPU application: ShuiLu Pi for ubuntukylin-default-settings
<Laney> pishuilu: hey, it's now your turn
<Laney> can you introduce yourself and your application?
<pishuilu> ok
<Laney> #chair bdmurray
<meetingology> Current chairs: Laney bdmurray
<Laney> (brb)
<pishuilu> I am a member of Ubuntu Kylin team.
<pishuilu> I maintain ubuntukylin-default-settings package.
<pishuilu> This package contains a number of system configurations.
<pishuilu> For example, firefox search engine and start page, default language for installer images, fix zip fie display of garbage characters
<pishuilu> etc
<cyphermox> Do you have plans to start maintaining other packages in ubuntukylin, or other packages in general?
<xnox> pishuilu: have you come across something that you wanted to customize, but it wasn't in fact customizable at all? Ie. impossible to set some kind of a setting, cause there is no such setting. And how did you resolve such requests?
<pishuilu> cyphermox: Now I maintain ubuntukylin-default-settings and ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntukylin package
<pishuilu> Later will also maintain other Ubuntu Kylin packages
<bdmurray> pishuilu: Could you answer xnox's question?
<pishuilu> xnox: Sometimes I should create a script to execute
<pishuilu> shell script
<pishuilu> Like fix bug LP: #1462848 (fix zip file display of garbage characters)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1462848 in Ubuntu Kylin "The name of the expanded files for zip file display of garbage characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462848
<bdmurray> pishuilu: Have you followed the work in bug 1422290 which seems like it may be a proper fix?
<ubottu> bug 1422290 in unzip (Ubuntu) "Default charsets handling for Windows archives in CJKV+th locale" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422290
 * xnox ponders if my question got through
<xnox> pishuilu: have you come across something that you wanted to customize, but it wasn't in fact customizable at all? Ie. impossible to set some kind of a setting, cause there is no such setting. And how did you resolve such requests?
<pishuilu> cyphermox: But I can't maintain all Ubuntu Kylin packages. some packages will be maintained by other colleagues.
<cyphermox> of course
<bdmurray> pishuilu: have you seen the other questions asked of you by xnox and myself?
<pishuilu> bdmurray: I don't follow  bug 1422290. I fix some questions which is not fixed by upstream. If upstream fix this bug ,I will undo this configuration.
<ubottu> bug 1422290 in unzip (Ubuntu) "Default charsets handling for Windows archives in CJKV+th locale" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422290
<pishuilu> xnox: sorry , I miss your question.
<xnox> pishuilu: have you come across something that you wanted to customize, but it wasn't in fact customizable at all? Ie. impossible to set some kind of a setting, cause there is no such setting. And how did you resolve such requests?
<pishuilu> ok
 * stgraber waves (my phone lied to me)
<pishuilu> xnox: I think if it wasn't in fact customizable at all, so this bug is not for this package.
<pishuilu> xnox: This package function is system configuration.
<xnox> pishuilu: so you never modified anything in ubuntu, or request to be modified in ubuntu to customize stuff??
<pishuilu> xnox: I mean configuration is not modifying some package source.
<pishuilu> xnox: For exmaple, replace the specific icon
<pishuilu> configure defaults.list of applications etc.
<bdmurray>  pishuilu: Could you comment on happyaron's caveat regarding a need "to be more careful"?
<pishuilu> xnox: You mean that modify some package source and submit patches to upstream?
<pishuilu> bdmurray: ok
<pishuilu> bdmurray: happyaron's caveat mean : when I fix a bug ,I should consider a problem more comprehensively
<bdmurray> pishuilu: And what steps are you taking to do that?
<pishuilu> When I fix a bug , first I should think this bug's influence of the whole system
<pishuilu> so I can consider a problem more comprehensively
<bdmurray> Can you give us an example of how you've done that?
<pishuilu> Details should be considered in all kinds of unexpected circumstances
<pishuilu> For example , fix bug 1462848
<ubottu> bug 1462848 in Ubuntu Kylin "The name of the expanded files for zip file display of garbage characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462848
<Laney> (I have one when you're finished)
<Laney> (then we should wrap up as we're over time already)
<pishuilu> I didn't consider the previous zh_CN outside
<pishuilu> Laney: I am sorry. Spent so much time !
<Laney> It's okay
<Laney> bdmurray: you want to ask more?
<pishuilu> I should consider zh_CN,zh_TW,zh_HK etc.
<bdmurray> Laney: no, that's okay
<Laney> ty
<Laney> pishuilu: What testing do you do on the package before asking for it to be uploaded?
<Laney> Do you test it on a non Chinese system for example?
<pishuilu> Laney: I test it on Chinese system.
<pishuilu> Because Ubuntu Kylin provide for the use of Chinese users
<Laney> I'm worried about cases where I have normal Ubuntu and Ubuntu Kylin installed at the same time
<Laney> like if I have a Chinese friend who uses my computer
<Laney> I don't want the Kylin settings to break anything on my account
<pishuilu> Laney: I see what you mean
<pishuilu> Laney: I should make some configurations  effect only in zh_CN.
<Laney> yes, you can also look at the $DESKTOP_SESSION environment variable
<Laney> it's also valid to be chinese and not use kylin :)
<pishuilu> Laney:OK, I know.
<pishuilu> Thanks.
<Laney> ok, thanks
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> anyone else?
<Laney> or vote?
<xnox> i lost wifi
 * xnox is back
<Laney> hello?
<bdmurray> I have no more questions.
<Laney> #vote grant ShuiLu Pi upload rights for ubuntukylin-default-settings
<meetingology> Please vote on: grant ShuiLu Pi upload rights for ubuntukylin-default-settings
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<stgraber> +1 [happy to see that the package is no longer overwriting paths owned by other packages but doing clean diverts now, otherwise would have -1]
<meetingology> +1 [happy to see that the package is no longer overwriting paths owned by other packages but doing clean diverts now, otherwise would have -1] received from stgraber
<Laney> Would like to see a bit more consideration given to co-existing with other flavours
<pishuilu> Laney: OK
<Laney> and probably a review procedure
<Laney> like, don't commit any changes without another team member approving them
<Laney> anyway...
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: grant ShuiLu Pi upload rights for ubuntukylin-default-settings
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> stgraber: you ok to action?
<stgraber> sure
<stgraber> done
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> pishuilu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New <- good page to read
<Laney> and please ask if you have any questions at all
<pishuilu> OK ,I know. Thanks very much.
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-09-28 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<Laney> can all of you please respond to this old thread?
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-August/000815.html
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 28 16:37:28 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-28-15.04.moin.txt
<Laney> cheers
<pishuilu> Thank you, goodbye!
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 28 16:41:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> this week I'm working on snappy documentation
<jdstrand> when helping someone with framework policy for a snap, I discovered that snappy's dbus bus policy implementation is not sufficient (not surprising, but now we have details to move forward)
<jdstrand> I need to file a bug with ideas on how to solve that so the snappy guys can get it fixed
<jdstrand> I have a couple of review tools issues to fix
<jdstrand> helping the golang, juju, and lxd MIRs along
<jdstrand> and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> fyi, ty hicks is out this week sprinting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just released nvidia drivers
<mdeslaur> and I'm working on php5 updates
<mdeslaur> I have a few other updates to test
<mdeslaur> and that's probably it for this week, as I'm on vacation for the next two weeks
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: nice!
<sbeattie> I'm covering community for ty hicks this week while he's sprinting
<sarnold> mdeslaur: nice :)
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue this week
<sbeattie> I'm also working on gcc-5 pie stuff
<sbeattie> I have some outstanding apparmor patches to review.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much my week.
<sbeattie> jjohansen: I think you're up?
<jjohansen> I am working on breaking the world
<jdstrand> sbeattie: how close are we to putting gcc-5 pie to done?
<jjohansen> that is kernel work on stacking and its related items
<jjohansen> I have some bug fixes to pull together too, that need to get pushed out to various kernels
<jdstrand> jjohansen: after the meeting can we sync super quick on that?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: sure
<jjohansen> should I pause for sbeattie, or just poke sarnold
<jdstrand> I think moving ahead is fine
<sarnold> I'm on bug  triage this week and working on the lxd MIR
<sarnold> I'll try to poke at some apparmor patches for a change of pace
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I shall be doing a thunderbird update this week. That's the only planned update I have :)
<chrisccoulson> So I'll be hoping to make some progress on Oxide (I investigated some memory use issues last  week, and have just finished adding support for HTML notifications)
<chrisccoulson> I would like to start figuring out what https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oxide/+spec/site-settings is going to look like
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jabberd2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/revelation.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/c-icap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/iscsitarget.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tpp.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold and chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 28 17:04:01 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-28-16.41.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> tanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-09-29
<coreycb> o/
<gaughen> it's me!!!
<smoser> horay!
<caribou> \o
<rharper> \o
<beisner> o/
<thedac> \o
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 29 16:01:36 2015 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> I don't see any action points from last time.
<rharper> yay, we finally moved on from asking rharper about numad
<gaughen> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> ha
<gaughen> is thedac on the list to run this meeting?
<coreycb> gaughen, no but he probably should be
<thedac> so far I have hidden away
<gaughen> final beta has passed
<gaughen> thedac, I'm putting you on the list. I'm kind that way.
<gaughen> I'll put you on the end... but before me ;-)
<thedac> I am reconsidering our friendship :p
<gaughen> final release is in less than a month - AAAAH!
<gaughen> final freeze is Oct 15
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gaughen> don't think there's anything worth mentioning  on the list
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<gaughen> caribou, you have anything to say?
<gaughen> beuller
<caribou> hi ?
<gaughen> hello
<gaughen> any bugs you want to mention
<caribou> yes, bug #1496317 is up for review
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<smoser> oh nice.
<caribou> apw is supposed to look at it soon
<caribou> tl;dr create smaller initrd.img in /boot/kdump
<arges> caribou: if it gets uploaded before tomorrow, I'll sru-review it : )
<caribou> arges: then go & harrass apw about it :)
<caribou> arges: I'd like a few eyes on it. Adding stuff to /boot can be seen as invasive
<arges> yea
<caribou> gaughen: other than that I'm good
<gaughen> caribou, cool! thank you!
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<gaughen> matsubara, any QA topics?
<matsubara> gaughen, hi, nothing new from me
<caribou> smoser: debdiff is in the case if you want to have a look at it
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to see here, move along... Please...
<gaughen> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<gaughen> any papers?
<gaughen> topics?
<gaughen> moving on
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gaughen> Openstack Summit in Tokyo is coming up
<gaughen> there is also Linux Con EU next week
<gaughen> several folks are presenting  on LXD and cloud-init
<gaughen> anything else?
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> anything?
<rharper> crickets
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gaughen> next week, same time, same place
<smoser> oh.
<gaughen> chair will be
<smoser> hold on.
<smoser> lets go back to open discussion
<gaughen> arosales
<smoser> i want to float one thing
<gaughen> okay, go back
<gaughen> go for it
<smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown
<gaughen> do I need to switch topics officially?
<smoser> nah
<smoser> server has been asked what we think of a switch to networkd in 15.10
<smoser> "by default"
<rharper> how can we do that now ?
<smoser> i wish rbasak was here, but interested in anyone's thoughts.
<smoser> :)
<gaughen> rcj, does this impact cloud-images?
<smoser> that is the expected response.
<rharper> maybe at the start of a cycle
<gaughen> smoser, isn't it a wee bit late
<smoser> well, the argument for it goes like this: i'd rather fail horribly now
<gaughen> rcj, I expect the answer is yes
<smoser> it does affect cloud images, yes.
<smoser> not a *ton*, but it it would.
<gaughen> smoser, would we have enough time to recover if we failed horribly now?
<rharper> smoser: hopefully the argument is: networkd fixes the following issues we have with ifupdown
<smoser> the bigger thing is anythign that writes (or reads) files in /etc/network/interfaces
<rharper> if the size of that list is not large, it's hard to argue that it's worth the trouble in the first place
<rcj> We have cloud image specifics around the interfaces files so we'll break clouds
<smoser> a 1x1 static change is easy enough.
<rcj> we have things that generate interfaces on the fly
<smoser> honestly, i wouldnt expect the cloud images to be terribly effected.
<smoser> oh?
<smoser> rcj, where do you have such things ?
<rcj> for cloud providers that have dynamic networking and multiple devices
<rcj> Joyent is one
<smoser> ok. so i'm very interested in that... can you give examples ?
<gaughen> probably not here
<smoser> (to be clear, i'm not advocating for this, but rather playing devils advocate).
<rcj> But I don't know what tools like walinuxagent and gce tools are doing for certain either.
<gaughen> what does non-devils advocate smoser think is the right thing to do here?
<smoser> rcj, can you give a link to code that does "dynamic config" ?
<rcj> smoser, I don't know that I'll find it quickly with Ben out
<smoser> gaughen, the non-devils advocate thinks this is very late in a cycle.  and also even possibly very late in an LTS cycle (ie, as in now is late for *16.04*)
<rharper> smoser: the most damning discussion I've seen is that networkd hasn't been (in the past at least) focused on server configuration, so things like parallel interface bringup or even ordered interface bring up (think bonds) have been addressed
<rharper> the ifupdown + bonding threads brought up the issue and networkd folks, no we don't do that, lemme see if I can find the link
<smoser> well, this would be a server install (and cloud image) config.
<gaughen> smoser, can we do a test build with it and see what falls out?
<rharper> but if we don't get equivalent function, and bug fixing, it's hard to argue that we should switch (and certainly harder late in the cycle)
<smoser> rharper, i think that you're mistaken. in that networkd *is* server centric.
<smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown is the blueprint, and /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian.gz on your wily system describes how to change
<smoser> pitti has done a good job of documenting that.
<rharper> I'll track down the emails I read;
<smoser> for easier reference, that README.Debian.gz is http://paste.ubuntu.com/12613789/
<smoser> i agree, rharper that lack of bond is certainly a stop ship issue.
<smoser> gaughen, so yeah, you could reasonably easily "see what falls out".
<smoser> so the big fallout is in anything that is reading or writing /etc/network/interfaces{,.d/*}
<smoser> which is curtin for one
<smoser> and also juju
<smoser> i'm interested i knowing anything else that people are aware of.
<smoser> largely this is a fact finding expedition
<smoser> also relevant is resolvconf -> systemd-resolvconf would be probably done
<gaughen> smoser, if we're still in fact finding mode that means to me we're not ready to pull the trigger
<gaughen> and thus too damn late for wily
<gaughen> my 2 cents
<smoser> the general reason for the interest in networkd is the same as that of systemd
<smoser> its not something you generally *chose*
<smoser> but something that is chosen for you. and you have to justify the cost of maintaining the other option (ifupdown-/etc/network/interfaces) indefinitely.
 * caribou likes the fact that this discussion is under Announce next meeting date :)
<gaughen> :-)
<gaughen> so anything else to talk about on this topic. smoser what's the next step?
<smoser> thus, if it is inevitable, then dropping ENI/ifupdown (which people love to hate also) by 16.04 , means we get to drop support for ifupdown 2 years sooner.
<smoser> does anyone have other examples of readers or writers of /etc/network/interfaces ?
<smoser> the other one that I know of is cloud-initramfs-dyn-netconf (which writes /etc/network/interfaces style file based on 'ip=' arguments on the cmdline).  And also open-iscsi is probably somehow affected (as it has to not bounce network interface of the root iscsi device).
<smoser> anyone have anything else?
<gaughen> smoser, should this one be emailed about on ubuntu-server?
<gaughen> *crickets*
<gaughen> okay I'm declaring this mtg done
<smoser> done
<smoser> thanks.
<gaughen> until next week, same time, same place.
<gaughen> thank you smoser for your little topic
<caribou> thanks gaughen
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 29 16:29:12 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-29-16.01.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 29 17:00:02 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<smb> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Wily kernel remains based on stable v4.2.1 and we will continue to
<ogasawara> track 4.2 for the remainder of the 15.10 cycle.  As a reminder, we are
<ogasawara> approaching Wily Kernel Freeze on Oct 8, ~1 week away.  If there are any patches which need to land for 15.10, please get them submitted soon.
<ogasawara> Following the Kernel Freeze deadline, all patches are subject to our SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  8 - Kernel Freeze (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<chiluk> o/
<chiluk> <-late
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid
<jsalisbury> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<jsalisbury>   *     Precise - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *      Trusty - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *  lts-Utopic - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *      Vivid  - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<jsalisbury>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<jsalisbury> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<jsalisbury>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<jsalisbury> Schedule:
<jsalisbury> cycle: 27-Sep through 17-Oct
<jsalisbury> ====================================================================
<jsalisbury>          25-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<jsalisbury> 27-Sep - 03-Oct   Kernel prep week.
<jsalisbury> 04-Oct - 10-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<jsalisbury> 11-Oct - 17-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 29 17:03:05 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-29-17.00.moin.txt
<Macbook_Oliver> Hi Team. Can anyone take a look at this: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99891
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 99891 in USB "Macbook8,1 12-inch (Early 2015) keyboard and trackpad don't work" [High,New]
<Macbook_Oliver> Basically the new macbook 12" is completely useless:(
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-01
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  1 15:01:01 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> caribou pitti infinity slangasek sil2100 doko tdaitx robru cyphermox bdmurray barry
<caribou> \o/
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou> - Bug #1496317 Wily failed kdump crash
<caribou>   Waiting for kernel team review
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou> - sosreport upstream issues
<caribou> Start work on adding autopkgtests to sosreport to comply to new SRU rules
<caribou> â Done
<pitti> - snappy sprint
<pitti> - some autopkgtest/britney bug fixing and infra maintenance, and -proposed cleanup
<pitti> END
<pitti> FTR, can't join mumble today
<slangasek> pitti: ack
<slangasek> infinity's not on the channel, it seems
<slangasek>  * short week, on vacation last week; hope you all had a good week!
<slangasek>  * forward progress on s390 recruiting
<slangasek>  * discussions around improvements to proposed-migration + ci-train
<slangasek>  * discussions around scalingstack power/arm bring-up
<slangasek>  * NEW review for dpdk
<slangasek>  * FFe discussions
<slangasek>  * will be looking at getting the first system-image import done of arm64
<slangasek> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Help with unblocking the new dual platform-api silo blocked on location-service
<sil2100> - Ubuntu-PD:
<sil2100>   * From last week: preparing the cdimage changes for the ubuntu-pd project
<sil2100>   * Fixing ubuntu-pd images on system-image, adding the missing touch-hacks
<sil2100>   * Creating the infrastructure for ubuntu-pd custom tarballs, building first tarballs
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Discussion regarding enabling autopkgtests in CI Train builds
<sil2100> - Modifying langpack-o-matic scripts to make auto-uploads of overlay translations (thanks pitti!)
<sil2100> - Releasing the livecd-rootfs change to remove apt lists completely from touch images
<sil2100> - Looking into the squid3 FTBFS and the new libecap3 problems in -proposed
<sil2100>   * Reviewed proposed patches
<sil2100> - Fix livecd-rootfs to properly remove apt lists
<sil2100> - Work on the touch/pd seeds (additions and removals)
<sil2100> - Looking into switching train to land to wily overlay
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding the upstart-watchdog and it leading to bootloops
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> Short week: Sick MondayÂ®
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<tdaitx> - US Visa (form filling, booking flight, scheduling biometrics+interview, expense reports, ...)
<tdaitx> - libecap2 gcc5 transition
<tdaitx> - completed squid 3.3.8 patches (LP: #1496223, LP: #1496924, LP: #1501566)
<tdaitx> - helped didrocks on openjdk support for LP: #1441487 (no support for JaxaFX since 2013: JDK-8092837 and JDK-8091321; AWT/Swing will not fix: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/swing-dev/2014-March/003307.html; maybe another way to load the lib besides as a java agent?
<tdaitx> - accidentally destroyed my TCK host T_T
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496223 in linux (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to linux-libc-dev and libc6-dev headers mismatch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496223
<tdaitx> - reading and writing juju charms
<tdaitx> Next steps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496924 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to bad libecap3 dependency and logical-not-parentheses warning" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496924
<tdaitx> - verify OpenJDK 6 TLS patch (LP: #1482924)
<tdaitx> - finish the tck charms if possible, otherwise will run everything manually
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> Upcoming
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1501566 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 FTBFS due to missing --name arg to pod2man" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501566
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1441487 in jayatana (Ubuntu Vivid) "Running any Java program produces messages in the terminal, while rendering many Java applications broken" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441487
<tdaitx> - US Visa interview in SÃ£o Paulo on Monday; will be offline the whole day (flight in, interview, flight out);
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<slangasek> robru:
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox>  - fixed NetworkManager
<cyphermox>    - review/merge Tony's patches/changes for oFono and wifi
<cyphermox>    - properly unbreak on wily (touch)
<cyphermox>    + fixes a bunch of small issues found in the process
<cyphermox>  - fwupdate work
<cyphermox>    - waiting for sig from Microsoft
<cyphermox>    - getting fwupd in the archive
<cyphermox>    - integration in snappy
<cyphermox>  - discussed usb-creator changes with mdeslaur
<cyphermox>  - really fixing bcmwl modalias for XPS13.
<cyphermox>  - sponsored MATE bugfixes
<cyphermox>  - sponsored ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:15.10.7 for MATE support
<cyphermox>  - fixed modemmanager upgrade issue
<cyphermox>  - ipmitool SRU LP: #1486931 (still in queue, arges did some review)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1486931 in ipmitool (Ubuntu Trusty) "[LTCTest][Opal][OP810] ipmitool 1.8.13-1ubuntu0.3 version is still not working for in-band HPM upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1486931
<cyphermox>  - ubiquity update for user-setup change
<cyphermox>  - more ibmpmlinux review and fixage
<cyphermox>  - debugging ubiquity timezone plugin crash
<cyphermox>  - debugging multipath-tools crasher in trusty SRU...
<cyphermox>  - sponsoring network-manager-strongswan bugfix.
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> This covers two weeks since I was out last thursday
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding stagingstack version of the error tracker and RT 84780
<bdmurray> wrote code to review retracer logs to look for duplicate crash processing
<bdmurray> reported update-manager / u-r-u bug 1497024 re upgrades and obsolete releases
<ubottu> bug 1497024 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrades should jump over unsupported releases" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497024
<bdmurray> research into the status of the armhf retracing queue (stuck at 12)
<bdmurray> reviewed log files for failed queue retracers
<bdmurray> resolved a traceback with the retracers and the failed queue
<bdmurray> worked with webops on a plan to get new version of daisy running on staging
<bdmurray> research into using ALTER TABLE with cassandra tables
<bdmurray> uploaded a T, V SRU for update-manager part of LP: #1497024
<bdmurray> uploaded T SRU for system-config-kickstater bug LP: #1260107
<bdmurray> investigation into apport reporting crashes about foreign packages (recreated)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1260107 in system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu Trusty) "trusty version experiences a runtime error due to hwdata changes" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260107
<bdmurray> discovered and reported u-r-u bug LP: #1498193 (fixed in W, uploaded to V, T)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1498193 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Vivid) "demoted.cfg is a broken symlink in the upgrader tarball" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498193
<bdmurray> uploaded, verified apport SRU for P for (LP: #1148116)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1148116 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "not all packages from PPAs have '[origin: ' in Package section" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1148116
<bdmurray> uploaded apport SRU for V for (LP: #1336462)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1336462 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "Make apport collect some Power information" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336462
<bdmurray> SRU verificaton of V for update-manager part of LP: #1497024
<bdmurray> reported ddeb-retriever bug LP: #1500557
<bdmurray> investigated, proposed merge for apport to deal with LP: #1500557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1500557 in ddeb-retriever "Packages file(s)? for wily out of date" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500557
<bdmurray> resolved issue with wily not displaying DevelReleaseAnnouncement
<bdmurray> worked with thedac regarding mojo spec for the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> attended Cassandra Summit 2015
<bdmurray> â done
<barry> system-image 3.0.2 landed in wily
<barry> system-image server: reviewed & merged https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/ubuntu-system-image/server-fix-pd-builds/+merge/272445
<barry> system-image server: lp:~barry/ubuntu-system-image/test-fixes
<barry> dirtbike (a tool to rewheel installed packages in debian)
<barry> pypi issues for bzr and launchpadlib
<barry> helped robru with some ci train problems
<barry> investigating LP: #1500768 (ongoing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1500768 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "python3.4.3 SRU break requests" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500768
<barry> PEP 507
<barry> some fixes to batch-update-ppa for 3.5 transitional PPA
<barry> system administration / hardware issues on the desktop machine
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> barry: "rewheel" - heh
<slangasek> doko, robru, bueller: around?
<barry> slangasek: yeah ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<caribou> slangasek: who do I beg to have an install-image respun for Trusty ?
<caribou> (Ref: prior discussion from a few weeks back)
<slangasek> caribou: you'll have to refresh my memory on the prior discussion - which image do you need respun?
<caribou> slangasek: I'll email the details
<slangasek> (answer: d-i respin for current kernel in trusty)
<slangasek> caribou: thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<pitti> does anyone happen to know about extra "block storage" in nova/prodstack?
<pitti> i. e. if I want to extend the disk space on an instance without going to a bigger flavor (to avoid wasting CPUs/RAM)
<caribou> pitti: you should be able to create a volume & attach it to your instance
<pitti> caribou: ah, volume-list/show/create/attach, thanks for the pointer!
<pitti> does that have a juju interface, or nova directly?
<caribou> pitti: dunno about juju. nova directly works
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> (or I'll just move to cpu1-ram2-disk50 which sounds fine too)
<pitti> anyway, sorry for the abuse of the meeitng for lazynet
<slangasek> :)
 * sil2100 volunteers for the +1 maintenance this month
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> yay
<pitti> caribou: ah, FYI (by way of Laney): https://jujucharms.com/docs/1.24/storage
<sil2100> cyphermox: you can give me things to work if you want, I want to spend most of my next week helping out but just poke me and I'll try to help ;)
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<cyphermox> sil2100: not sure if it's my "month" per se, but I'll be happy to help and sponsor.
<slangasek> sil2100: did you get a chance to talk to doko already about current +1 maintenance task lists?
<sil2100> slangasek: no, not yet, I spent my patch pilot session looking at the FTBFS page though
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> sounds like that's everything, then
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  1 15:28:48 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-01-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<barry> thanks!
<tdaitx> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thakns all
<Kilos> o/
<dholbach> hello hello
 * wxl waves
<flexiondotorg> o/
<dholbach> hey wxl, hey flexiondotorg
<dholbach> I saw pleia2 earlier - do we have mhall119, cprofitt, czajkowski too?
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Hi
<dholbach> #startmeeting Community Council meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  1 17:01:27 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting | Current topic:
<dholbach> #chair pleia2 mhall119 cprofitt czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach mhall119 pleia2
<mhall119> o/
<pleia2> o/
<dholbach> today we are catching up with the Ubuntu Mate and Lubuntu teams (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda)
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Ubuntu Mate team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting | Current topic: Catching up with the Ubuntu Mate team
<dholbach> hey flexiondotorg - how are things in the Ubuntu Mate world?
<flexiondotorg> Pretty great :-)
<flexiondotorg> I have some questions, but before I do.
<dholbach> sure, go ahead :)
<flexiondotorg> I thought a quick background and status of the project would be useful.
<pleia2> perfect
<flexiondotorg> #### Objectives
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE has a number of guiding objectives and goals.
<flexiondotorg>  * Accessible to all, regardless of language and physical ability.
<flexiondotorg>  * Increase both Ubuntu and MATE Desktop user adoption.
<flexiondotorg>  * Ubuntu alternative for computers that aren't powerful enough to run a composited desktop.
<flexiondotorg>  * First choice Ubuntu platform for remote workstation solutions such as LTSP and X2Go.
<flexiondotorg>  * Recreate the halcyon days of Ubuntu for users who prefer a traditional desktop metaphor.
<flexiondotorg>  * Use themes and artwork similar to Ubuntu so that Ubuntu MATE is immediately familiar.
<flexiondotorg>  * When possible contribute to Debian so both the Debian and Ubuntu communities benefit.
<flexiondotorg>  * Software selection will favour functionality and stability over lightness and whimsy.
<flexiondotorg>  * Get adopted as an official Ubuntu "flavour".
<flexiondotorg> With 15.10 we are meeting all those goals.
<flexiondotorg> We've worked with the Accessible Computing Foundation to get the ensorsement that Ubuntu MATE is accessible.
<cprofitt> sounds good.
<flexiondotorg> I made Ubuntu MATE to re-create the Ubuntu experience my family had grown acustomed.
<flexiondotorg> I switched them from Window XP to Ubuntu 6.06.
<flexiondotorg> My wife, daughter, mother, father and in-laws all run Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> Turns out making something for my family proved very popular :-)
<flexiondotorg> My mum is the most recent convert. She been running Ubuntu MATE for a year.
<dholbach> :-)
<flexiondotorg> She was delighted when she connected Ubuntu MATE to her wireless photo printer, without assistance.
<flexiondotorg> So she is completely hooked and is now an Ubuntu advocate :-)
<flexiondotorg> #### Community
<flexiondotorg> The Ubuntu MATE community is thriving.
<flexiondotorg> I had some 1-to-1 community management coaching from Jono Bacon.
<flexiondotorg> The Ubuntu MATE community, in all their online locations, is positive and friendly.
<flexiondotorg> Very proud of that.
<flexiondotorg> If you've never seen them, here are the websites.
<flexiondotorg>  * https://ubuntu-mate.org
<flexiondotorg>  * https://ubuntu-mate.community
<flexiondotorg>  * https://ubuntu-mate.boutique
<flexiondotorg> We're on the various social networks.
<flexiondotorg>  * ~2900 G+ community page memebrs
<flexiondotorg>  * ~2500 Facebook community page memebrs
<flexiondotorg>  * ~1300 Twitter followers
<flexiondotorg>  * LinkedIn group and page are currently being established.
<flexiondotorg> I've presented talks about Ubuntu MATE at Oggcamp 14, X2Go Gather 2014, Montreal Linux User Group, UOS 15.05 as well as number interviews on podcasts.
<flexiondotorg> One Ubuntu MATE user presented Ubuntu MATE 15.04 live on the national Romanian news.
<flexiondotorg> #### Downloads
<flexiondotorg> Here are some conservative download numbers.
<flexiondotorg> I can't track direct downloads from the mirrors nor some torrent activity.
<flexiondotorg>  * ~42,000 downloads per month for Intel 32-bit and 64-bit combined, included 15.04 and 15.10.
<flexiondotorg>  * ~31,000 downloads per month for the Raspberry Pi 2 image.
<flexiondotorg> More on that ^^^^^^^ in a bit.
<flexiondotorg>  * ~1,000 downloads per month for the PowerPC image.
<flexiondotorg>  * ~400 downloads per month for the aarch32 ARMv7 generic rootfs image.
<flexiondotorg> ARM holdings are completing the paperwork so that generic rootfs can use the official ARM artwork/logos.
<mhall119> that's really cool about being featured on the news
<dholbach>  * Awards received so far: Best prepared CC Catch-up ever.
<flexiondotorg> Yeah, it was pretty amazing. He did a demo and everything.
<flexiondotorg> #### Hardware
<flexiondotorg> We have two hardware partners selling computers pre-installed with Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg>  * Entroware - https://www.entroware.com/store/
<flexiondotorg>  * LibreTrend - http://libretrend.com/en/
<wxl> um, yeah, dholbach. i feel a bit under-dressed for the occassion.
<flexiondotorg> A third hardware partnership is in development for a Raspberry Pi 2 based device for use in the education sector in France.
<dholbach> wxl, don't worry too much :)
<flexiondotorg> This is my first time at this and I'm sure some of you know nothing about Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> So, just setting the scene :-)
<flexiondotorg> #### Media
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: are those hardware partners using a vanilla Ubuntu MATE image, or are they modifying it for their hardware?
<flexiondotorg> Vanilla
<mhall119> that's good
<flexiondotorg> They been vetted by Ubuntu Legal too.
<dholbach> Who's all helping out with Ubuntu MATE?
<mhall119> that was going to be my next question, good job on that flexiondotorg :)
<flexiondotorg> I worked on oem-config with the foundations team to fix a few bits.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, https://ubuntu-mate.org/team/
<flexiondotorg> Press coverage : Linux Welt (cover disc twice), Ubuntu Facil,
<flexiondotorg> Linux Voice, Linux.com, OMG! Ubuntu!, WebUpd8, Linux Veda, Datamation, Phoronix,
<flexiondotorg> Softpedia, The Register to name a few.
<flexiondotorg> #### Participating in Ubuntu and Debian
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to think we are playing an active and beneficial role in the Ubuntu
<flexiondotorg> community.
<flexiondotorg> I've signed the CLA and contributed to Compiz to bring first class
<flexiondotorg> support to MATE.
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE owes a great deal of thanks to many canonical staff who've helped make Ubuntu MATE a reality.
<flexiondotorg> All the MATE packaging is actually done in Debian, where I am a maintainer.
<flexiondotorg> I did the migration of MATE 1.8 to 1.10 over the summer.
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: do you know if MATE plans to stay on compiz indefinitely, or are there plans to move to something with more active development?
<flexiondotorg> All those packages are now synced to the Ubuntu archive.
<dholbach> how does the coordination of the Ubuntu MATE team mostly work?
<flexiondotorg> Compiz is optional.
<flexiondotorg> I've added support for Metacity and Mutter in 15.10. With support for Compton coming in 16.04.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, I lead the charge.
<dholbach> do you have meetings?
<flexiondotorg> I co-lead MATE Desktop.
<dholbach> do you all hang out on IRC?
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: cool, the question was leading to see if MATE would have the desire and ability to take over ownership of Compiz
<dholbach> or use mailing lists?
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, All IRC.
<dholbach> how does coordination work with Debian and Upstream?
<flexiondotorg> mhall119, Desire to take on Compiz yes. Ability, sadly not :-(
<mhall119> ok, that's fair
<flexiondotorg> Well, Debian maintainers and also MATE upstream.
<flexiondotorg> So everything happens in #mate-dev
<flexiondotorg> I have some questions.
<mhall119> ask away
<flexiondotorg> Can I apply for per package upload rights now?
<dholbach> not with the CC
<flexiondotorg> As I've said, most packaging happens in Debian.
<dholbach> but I would generally encourage you and help where I can with the application process :)
<flexiondotorg> Well, the question is really, have I worked with the Ubuntu team long enough to start the application process?
<flexiondotorg> Cool.
<dholbach> I would recommend to set up a wiki page for the application and ask your sponsors for feedback
<dholbach> they're going to have to add it in any case
<mhall119> +1 what dholbach said
<flexiondotorg> Wiki stuff already in place.
<dholbach> and you'll get to feel the pulse
<dholbach> awesome
<flexiondotorg> I'll start the process next week.
<dholbach> drop me an email and I'll have a look over it and leave an endorsement
<flexiondotorg> wilco
<flexiondotorg> How do I join the bug squad?
<dholbach> I sponsored a few packages already, so I have an opinion already. :-)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/GettingInvolved
<flexiondotorg> I've been doing a good chunk of bug hunting and have been asked to join.
<dholbach> you can ping bdmurray and balloons about that too ^
<flexiondotorg> Thanks. I'll follow that up.
<dholbach> brilliant :)
<flexiondotorg> My other questions are about getting new packages into the archive, but I guess that is not a discussion for here?
<flexiondotorg> Particularly Pi 2 related packages, firmware and such.
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages - let me know if you have any more specific questions
<flexiondotorg> But other than that, feel free to ask me some more questions.
<dholbach> ogra and ppisati can probably help with rpi2 bits
<flexiondotorg> I've been talking to orga.
<flexiondotorg> Notes made, will follow up with them.
<dholbach> excellent
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: have you guys started looking at Snappy and the possibility of making Ubuntu MATE images for it?
<mhall119> especially for PRi2
<flexiondotorg> mhall119, Yes.
<flexiondotorg> I've watched the UOS session.
<flexiondotorg> Chatted with some of the devs.
<flexiondotorg> Had a snapcraft 1-to-1 with ogra last week.
<dholbach> What are your first impressions so far?
<flexiondotorg> Really want to invest some time is learning Snappy and snapcraft more thoroughly.
<flexiondotorg> snaftcraft is awesome sauce.
<dholbach> <3
<flexiondotorg> I was already sold on the notion of core os and containered apps.
<dholbach> let me know if you have any more specific questions and feedback there - maybe also outside of the meeting :)
<flexiondotorg> mhall119, Yes I'd like to make a snappy Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> But I'd need Xmir support in snappy I think.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Will do.
<dholbach> how does interaction with the Ubuntu MATE community of users work generally?
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: fantastic, the snappy developers need feedback, especially from flavor devs, on what is needed to support that
<flexiondotorg> By and large via G+ and the Ubuntu MATE community site.
<dholbach> Bug reports too?
<flexiondotorg> I've been spending a good deal of time educating them to raise bugs and not just whine into the ether.
<flexiondotorg> That message is getting through.
<flexiondotorg> For example.
<flexiondotorg> We've helped get several endian issue fixed for PowerPC this cycle.
<flexiondotorg> Xorg works and so does webkit now.
<flexiondotorg> That was done by getting the PowerPC educated in how to file bugs the right way to get the attention of the right people.
<popey> Yeah, seeing people post photos of old G5 Macs running brand new software is really cool!
<dholbach> so the amount of bug reports is manageable so far?
<flexiondotorg> popey, You should see today's on G+
 * popey looks
<flexiondotorg> It's Inception like.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Currently about 75.
<flexiondotorg> I try to keep it under 100.
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/115515624056477014971/posts/8H1UtDv5FEM
<popey> for the logs :)
<dholbach> where would you like to get more people involved in the Ubuntu MATE world?
<flexiondotorg> Yes, manageable.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Good question.
<flexiondotorg> Probably more in the MATE world really.
<flexiondotorg> Because MATE needs some features adding.
<flexiondotorg> I helped accomplish some of that last year as a GSoC mentor for MATE.
<dholbach> so mostly MATE upstream work?
<flexiondotorg> We completed 3 excellent projects.
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Yeah, mostly.
<flexiondotorg> The Ubuntu MATE package in the ubuntu archive are:
<flexiondotorg>  - ubuntu-mate-settings
<flexiondotorg>  - ubuntu-mate-artwork
<flexiondotorg>  - ubuntu-mate-welcome
<flexiondotorg>  - ubuntu-mate-meta
<flexiondotorg>  - folder-color
<flexiondotorg>  - deja-dup-caja
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: are you guys encouraging your active contributors to seek Ubuntu Membership? If so, how are you doing that?
<flexiondotorg> The last 2 are maintained by Marco Costales.
<flexiondotorg> I can manage the others.
<flexiondotorg> mhall119, Not yet.
<flexiondotorg> But on the cards for 16.04.
<flexiondotorg> Myself included.
<mhall119> you're not a member yet?
 * dholbach echos the question
<flexiondotorg> I think when 15.10 goes final I hit my 6 months official involvement right?
<mhall119> that's not a hard requirement
<flexiondotorg> No, not a member.
<flexiondotorg> Would like to be.
<mhall119> you should definitely go for Membership before you go for upload access
<flexiondotorg> OK, I'll do that thing :-)
<dholbach> and I guess you were involved in a way or another since 6.06, right? :)
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Yes.
<dholbach> so, 6 months are not a problem :)
<flexiondotorg> Except that bit where I'm an Arch Linux TU since 2012 ;-)
<dholbach> TU?
<flexiondotorg> Trusted User ~= MOTU
<dholbach> ah, brilliant
<mhall119> that wouldn't discount your Ubuntu involvement at all
<flexiondotorg> Phew!
<flexiondotorg> Right, I'm over running :-O
<dholbach> no, far from it - it's always good to have insights from people who got to experience other communities :)
<flexiondotorg> :-)
<dholbach> I'm out of questions - I'm super happy with your involvement and what you report from the MATE community
<flexiondotorg> Thank you.
<dholbach> do you have any more questions yourself? or anything where the CC could help with?
<flexiondotorg> And thanks to all the Canonical staff who've helped make Ubuntu MATE a reality.
<flexiondotorg> No questions from me,.
<flexiondotorg> wxl, All yours mate :-)
<mhall119> flexiondotorg: and thanks to you and the MATE developer for bringing another great desktop option to Ubuntu sers
<mhall119> users
<flexiondotorg> :-)
<dholbach> cprofitt, pleia2, czajkowski: any more questions from you?
<mhall119> speaking of great desktop options, hello wxl :)
<wxl> okie dokie. well, i didn't have a speech prepared, soâ¦ XD
<pleia2> nothing from me, thanks flexiondotorg :)
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Lubuntu team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting | Current topic: Catching up with the Lubuntu team
<wxl> in fac,t i had expected this to go a little bit more like other meetings i have grown accustomed to wherein i simply ask questions, but hey :)
<dholbach> thanks again flexiondotorg!
<pleia2> wxl: haha, that's ok, flexiondotorg went above and beyond what we're used to :)
<dholbach> wxl, that works well for us :)
<wxl> ok, good
<wxl> next time i'll do something like that. it's good.
<dholbach> how are things in the Lubuntu team?
<wxl> pretty good over all
<wxl> we've been plugging away at getting lxqt integrated
<wxl> it's taken us a while
<wxl> we'll probably have everything done in time for 16.04, but i'm not comfortable putting new features in an LTS
<dholbach> how is it looking and working for you?
<mhall119> wxl: so lxde will still be the default for you in 16.04?
<wxl> the big issue with lxqt is not necessarily the desktop environment itself, but that the change in graphics library requries us to reconsider all of our app choices
<wxl> mhall119: at present, that is the current plan, yes.
<mhall119> wxl: and you're okay supporting that for 5 years?
<dholbach> which apps would need replacement?
<wxl> lubuntu has a pretty small development team, and they could use all the time they could get
<mhall119> understood
<wxl> mhall119: yes. lxde (the gtk+ version) continues to be developed upstream
<gilir> hi, sorry to be late
<dholbach> hey gilir
<wxl> in fact, the team working on it insists that lxde is not dead despite the fact that the team has largely shifted to focusing on lxqt
<mhall119> wxl: well that's good to know
<wxl> to answer your question, dholbach, basically all of the gtk+ apps that don't offer a qt version. so pretty much the whole kit and kaboodle!
<dholbach> are you planning to add a lxqt session so people can play around with it early on?
<dholbach> do the gtk+ apps generally work in a lxqt session?
<mhall119> wxl: are the KDE apps an option for you, or do they depend too much on KDE/Frameworks?
<wxl> dholbach: gilir has provided two choices for people to play with: an lxqt-metapackage in our daily ppas and a lubuntu-next iso that he hosts himself
<tsimonq2> .
<dholbach> good work!
<wxl> dholbach: generally, yes. honestly, my personal machine has been living with both libraries for a while and it's happy
<dholbach> so mixing and matching would be an option?
<wxl> dholbach: also we taking and responding to bugs filed against those previews
<wxl> dholbach: yes, but of course, considering our focus on being lightweight, we don't want to ship both graphics libraries
<dholbach> ok, I see
<dholbach> I wasn't sure if you were constrained by ISO size
<wxl> mhall119: it's an interesting thing. some kde apps can be removed from the kde space, while others are tightly integrated. perhaps this will be the impetus needed to get all of those apps to live free of the whole kde desktop environment.
<dholbach> as you mentioned the team size earlier... where would you need most help?
<gilir> I could add also that we are trying to be qt5 only, and with minimun KDE/KF5 depends
<wxl> dholbach: iso size is certainly an issue. we've struggled to at least keep our alternate image cd sized. struggled. and it's important to us because the target for our flavor is often old machines that perhaps don't support dvds or usb.
<dholbach> ah that makes sense
<gilir> that make the choice for default apps very limited :-/
<wxl> dholbach: i continue to recruit people to testing and bug hunting and what not. but again, where we need help is with development. i'll let gilir speak more about that
<mhall119> wxl: another possible option, and I'm just throwing this out for you, is the Ubuntu Core Apps which are all Qt/Qml and lightweight, but might require inclusions of some additional platform services
<wxl> and actually, we're working on trying to find a replacement for our wonderful documentation guy who has been called away by real life. i mean the project will keep going without him, but he was making some serious inroads on some hard work.
<dholbach> gilir, where do you see most demand for helping hands?
<wxl> mhall119: i'll leave gilir to consider that and/or respond to it
<dholbach> how do you guys coordinate most of your work and where do you invite people to?
<gilir> mhall119, last time I check them, they depends toomuch on unity stuff
<gilir> mhall119, but that could be an option in the long term
<gilir> dholbach, we coordinate a lot by mail and by IRC
<wxl> dholbach: we have #lubuntu-devel and the mailing list associated with the qa team where most of the technical discussion happens, even those things not directly related to qa. however, i have recently created a lubuntu-devel mailing list that i hope to move all that discussion over to, so the "qa" tag isn't quite as confusing (also that's not an lp list which i think will be a godsend, unlike the previ
<wxl> ous one)
<dholbach> that makes sense
<wxl> dholbach: also i sometimes hunt down gilir through facebook messenger XD
<dholbach> :-)
<mhall119> gilir: the Ubuntu UI Toolkit used to have a dependency on some unity library, but I think that's been removed
<gilir> wxl, sorry for that :-/
<wxl> generally any discussion, private or not, gets communicated throughout the lists so the community can be involved
<mhall119> the apps themselves shouldn't have any Unity dependency
<dholbach> so that's how lubuntu's red telephone works :)
<wxl> gilir: hahah, that's fine! i rather enjoy that as an option!
<wxl> dholbach: exactly!
<gilir> mhall119, that's good know :-) I'll propably check them again after the next LTS
<dholbach> maybe you could do a session at the next UOS and invite interested folks to participate there
<wxl> mhall119: is there someone in particular we should connect with if we run into further issues with that?
<mhall119> wxl: popey would be a good point of contact
<wxl> mhall119: noted, thanks. keep me up to date on how that goes when you have a chance, gilir.
<dholbach> I'm sure that evaluating app solutions is something where others would like to help out
<wxl> dholbach: we did a UOS session a while back where we kind of showed off lxqt and asked questions. we take every opportunity in the public eye to invite people to join
<dholbach> brilliant
<dholbach> maybe you can invite some upstream folks to the sessions too
<wxl> dholbach: the community has been involved in the brainstorming regarding replacement apps for lubuntu-next as well
 * popey wakes
<dholbach> awesome
<wxl> that's a good point, dholbach!
<dholbach> is there anything where you would like the CC to help out?
<wxl> dholbach: yes, patches welcome. XD
<dholbach> haha
<wxl> seriously, no. the lubuntu community continues to grow
<wxl> we're not a huge team but we're all very dedicated
<dholbach> do you do a lot on social media at the moment?
<dholbach> (apart from pinging gilir on FB? :-))
<wxl> we have a VERY active facebook group
<wxl> and a facebook page
<wxl> and several points on twitter (key people, and official channels)
<wxl> we've got a reddit board
<dholbach> less on Google+?
<wxl> google+
<wxl> i think fb is far more active than g+
<dholbach> interesting
<wxl> not because we do less on it, but that's just where users connect with us more
<dholbach> do you manage to get people from these communities involved in any of the daily work?
<wxl> a lot of users are windows expats
<dholbach> sure, I think that's perfectly fine :)
<wxl> yes, actually
<wxl> we've recruited several people that way
<dholbach> maybe we could invite you guys to a Community Q&A to show off some of the work you've been doing
<dholbach> ... and answer questions :)
<wxl> sometimes it comes from a conversation on a particular topic and other times, it's from making friends
<wxl> also myself and several others run a sort of linux mentoring program called linuxpadawan
<wxl> that tends to get them involved in our projects
<wxl> as we tend to use lubuntu tasks to illustrate or help educate people on particular topics
<dholbach> nice
<wxl> i'm currently mentoring a very bright 13 year old who's been helping with qa and learning how to contribute code!
<dholbach> <3
<wxl> i think a community q&a would be FABULOUS dholbach. the timing of those mostly sucks for me, though.
<dholbach> maybe we can move the date and time once :)
 * mhall119 is happy to see linuxpadawan continuing to grow
<wxl> not because it's too early but because i'm trying to get myself and my daughter ready for our days
<dholbach> mhall119, ^
<wxl> if that's a possibility, i'm all ears
<tsimonq2> o/
<mhall119> I'm sure we could make it happen
<wxl> extra exposure would be really nice and i know those q&as get a lot of activity
<mhall119> might get fewer questions though
<wxl> (btw tsimonq2 is said padawan) :)
<wxl> i could also see if i couldn't coordinate somehow to make it happen
<wxl> for now let's put that on the list of things to look into and we'll go from there
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> I'm super happy with what you're reporting!
<wxl> i certainly appreciate the offer and anything i can do to take advantage of the opportunity would be most appreciated
<dholbach> do you get a chance to meet up as a lubuntu/lxde/lxqt community at events sometimes?
<wxl> unfortunately, not yet
<wxl> we're pretty spread out across the world
<wxl> we've done hangouts and such but that's been about it XD
<dholbach> are there any meetings where upstream folks meet sometimes?
<wxl> i do go waving the lubuntu flag everywhere i go though XD
<wxl> not that i'm aware of. gilir do you know of any lxde meetings anywhere?
<wxl> most of the activity i've seen from them is on the mailing list. even irc is pretty quiet.
<gilir> wxl, it's very diffult to get everyone in a same country
<dholbach> maybe it might be an idea to colocate a lubuntu/lxde/lxqt meeting with another conference one day?
<wxl> that'd be a cool idea
<gilir> ther was some lxde/lxqt meeting with part of the devs, but never most of them
<wxl> last time i showed up at a conference it was mostly kubuntu folks hanging out XD
<gilir> there is people in US, Europe and Asia, that not easy :-)
 * wxl nods
<dholbach> I see, ok
<dholbach> I'm done with questions
<dholbach> how about everyone else?
<wxl> at the aforementioned conference, we had kubuntu folks from around the world, b ut most of them were presently working in the us. circumstantial luck.
<wxl> maybe i could do the q&a on my bike, mhall119 ;)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> czajkowski, cprofitt, mhall119, pleia2: more questions from you?
<mhall119> wxl: I've had hangout meetings with people driving in their car, so it wouldn't be that far off :)
<pleia2> nope, thanks wxl
<wxl> mhall119: i'm not sure you remember but a few UOSs ago i showed up to ask questions while on a bike and you commented that that was the first you had seen of it XD
<dholbach> thanks a lot wxl, gilir and everyone else!
<mhall119> wxl: same question as I asked the MATE guys, are you directing your active contributors to seek Ubuntu Membership and helping them prepare for that?
<wxl> mhall119: being a member of the membership board, that's a resounding yes XD
<mhall119> wxl: ah ha! I had forgotten about that
<wxl> mhall119: i'm also on the LoCo board so i'm always encouraging local involvement as well
<dholbach> :-)
<wxl> in fact, the aforementioned 13 year old is currently working on taking over his LoCo which is mostly dead!
<dholbach> that's fantastic
<wxl> and actually he goes to a really cool school that is allowing him to contribute as part of his education
<wxl> when we were working out milestones to reach, we made sure to include Ubuntu Membership :)
<dholbach> tsimonq2, which LoCo team is that?
<wxl> it's in Wisconsin, dholbach
<wxl> i think his study hall ended
<dholbach> brilliant!
<dholbach> thanks a lot tsimonq2! keep up the good work!
<dholbach> and thanks everyone else
<mhall119> wxl: wow, that's really cool, keep up the great work with linuxpadawan
<wxl> oh and one other thing: i continue to acquire ppc machines and have been meaning to send them out to testers
<wxl> mhall119: will do :)
<wxl> so hopefully our ppc image will continue to grow
<wxl> ppc is what brought me to lubuntu and is a popular target since many ppc machines are very resource limited
<wxl> since there's not a lot of support for ppc (i mean, period. all of the linux world), we've gone to lts only, but having more testers working on daily images will help give us the heads up we need to produce better images
<wxl> i think that's about all i got for news and updates
<dholbach> awesome!
<pleia2> yay ppc, glad that work is continuing there
<wxl> i appreciate every single one of you and all your hard work in the community
 * dholbach hugs you all :)
<wxl> hehehe
<wxl> group hug!
<wxl> :)
<cprofitt> sorry I was in and out, ut got called away
<dholbach> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<dholbach> I don't have any other business and there's nothing on the agenda page as far as I can see.
<pleia2> the call for nominees for the loco council still needs to be sent out
<pleia2> I think someone may have told jose that it's fine for them to do that?
<dholbach> I didn't, but yeah - it's perfectly fine for the LC to send out the call.
<wxl> pleia2: honestly i'm still confused about the status on that
<mhall119> pleia2: I think that may have been me
<wxl> let me double check the mailing list
<wxl> we have quorum as far as number of members
<wxl> but josÃ© seems to think you're doing the announcement mhall119 :)
<mhall119> wxl: IIRC, there are 2 or 3 members set to expire this month
<wxl> yep
<dholbach> also worth noting: the CC is still accepting nominations for the upcoming CC election
<mhall119> jose can post the announcement to fridge, I can't, so that's +1 for him doing it :)
<wxl> tsimonq2 said he was going to put in a nominator for me :)
<wxl> hahahahah mhall119 i'll let him know
<cprofitt> yes, I told jose the LC could do the announcement
<dholbach> cool cool :)
<dholbach> ok, that's a wrap then :)
<dholbach> thanks everyone!
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  1 18:12:59 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-01-17.01.moin.txt
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<wxl> thanks all
<hik--> Hello
<wxl> hi hikiko !
<hikiko-m> Hi!
<wxl> how are you?
<hikiko-m> Good :-) you?
<wxl> good thank you
<wxl> i'm pretty sure several of our other members are lurking about
<wxl> did you bring anyone to provide testimonials for you, hikiko-m /
<Kilos> hi hikiko-m
<hikiko-m> mmm no, I asked some people to write @the wiki but maybe they forgot../
<hikiko-m> hi Kilos
<wxl> hikiko-m: we can make some time if you want to invite anyone to irc
<hikiko-m> let me try
<wxl> hikiko: you might check if anyone you're looking for is on this channel already. many of us idle.
<elacheche_anis> o/
<hikiko--> !
<hikiko--> hey Trevinho
<hikiko--> ping!
<elacheche_anis> hikiko-- hikiko  who's is the one?
<elacheche_anis> :)
<wxl> elacheche_anis: i think they're one in the same XD
<hikiko--> me
<elacheche_anis> Membership board rise your hands please â let's count :)
<wxl> o/
<PabloRubianes> hello
<Kilos> o/
<PabloRubianes> o/
<elacheche_anis> Yayy :D We reach the quorum :p :D
<elacheche_anis> OK can we start?
<Kilos> yay
<wxl> ready
<Kilos> hikiko-- are you ready
<elacheche_anis> #startmeeting 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  1 20:03:35 2015 UTC.  The chair is elacheche_anis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<hikiko--> yes ready :)\
<elacheche_anis> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
<elacheche_anis> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<elacheche_anis> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<elacheche_anis> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<elacheche_anis> #topic hikiko--
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: hikiko--
<elacheche_anis> hikiko-- please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
<elacheche_anis> #voters wxl Kilos PabloRubianes elacheche_anis
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes elacheche_anis wxl
<elacheche_anis> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<hikiko--> hello, Iâm Eleni, Iâm a software engineer @Canonical and I work on the desktop (nux, compiz and unity)
<wxl> nice to meet you Eleni! :)
<hikiko--> my wiki page is: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/hikiko
<elacheche_anis> Welcome hikiko-- :) What can you tell us more about you ?
<hikiko--> and my lp page: https://launchpad.net/~hikiko
<hikiko--> hello all\
<hikiko--> mmm what else
<hikiko--> I like computer graphics
<hikiko--> I m writing C++, opengl
<Kilos> nice to meet you hikiko--
<wxl> that seems apparent :)
<wxl> outside of your contributions to the project as part of your job, how else have you been involved with the ubuntu community?
<hikiko--> I write some blog posts related to Ubuntu (and thatâs one of the reasons Iâd like to become ubuntu member: add my blog to planet ubuntu so that more people can read it) and I participate to fosscoms etc
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: I really LOVED that imgr link! But I can't find any other interesting information in your Wiki, like Testimonials from Community members, and community projects..
<hikiko--> arenât compiz, nux and unity community projects?!
<wxl> absolutely, hikiko ! your contributions are apparent!
<PabloRubianes> hikiko: any LoCo Work?
<hikiko--> translations?
<wxl> you do translations, too?
<hikiko--> Iâve done 2 in the past (2005 or 2006) Iâm not really participating on that sorry
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: Yeah those are community projects, but your wiki should show that, it's like a resume or a summary for all that..
<wxl> tell us about the last FOSSCon you were involved in
<hikiko--> mmm I was hoping that people could find my contributions on launchpad
<wxl> hikiko: like he said, it's like a resumÃ©. not so much a list, but a little bit of detail.
<wxl> although, as a programmer, i understand your logic XD
<hikiko--> Iâve been to several of them and this year I m going to make a presentation on compiz and how people can contribute and write plugins from scratch
<wxl> wow! at which one?
<hikiko--> in our local fosscomm in greece
<wxl> oh cool, i wasn't clear if you were still in greece or not
<wxl> is there a large ubuntu community there?
<Kilos> hikiko-- you should put all that in your wiki
<Kilos> your wiki page is where you sell your slf
<wxl> i think it's clear we need to better define what should be on the wiki
<Kilos> self
<hikiko--> well, itâs large compared to other oss communities but we donât have large communities in greece :)
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: I'm interested to get a video link to that presentation :) I'll be happy if oyu ping me after the FOSSCOMM :)
<hikiko--> sure elacheche_anis :)
<wxl> i agree with elacheche_anis, but i'd recommend also putting that on your wiki too
<hikiko--> I will put it in my blog
<PabloRubianes> hikiko: is there any reason you have no testimonials on your wiki?
<wxl> anything you do to promote ubuntu should go there
<PabloRubianes> maybe you didn't ask for them
<hikiko--> I have other presentations too and tutorials
<PabloRubianes> ?
<hikiko--> well I asked people for testimonials
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: I say it again & again, I really love and appreciate what you do for the community.. But you miss 2/4 from the application requirements â https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember#Preparing_your_Application
<hikiko--> and some of them said they will write
<hikiko--> but they didnât so...
<elacheche_anis> I feel you hikiko-- :)
<hikiko--> ok robert_ancell will write one :D
<hikiko--> thanks robert_ancell !!
<robert_ancell> mkay
<wxl> do you havea a lot of interactions with other ubuntu users/members/contributors outside of the ones you interact with for work?
<hikiko--> mmm there are always people that ask for help in #ubuntu-desktop or #compiz or in lp
<hikiko--> and we provide support
<wxl> so you provide irc support, hikiko ?
<hikiko--> but yes thats mostly work
<wxl> is there a loco in greece?
<hikiko--> I think so, there is #ubuntu-gr on freenode and some translating teams
<wxl> yeah i think #ubuntu-gr is for irc support in greek
<wxl> oh i'm wrong
<wxl> that's their loco channel too :)
<wxl> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-gr/
<wxl> have you tried to connect with them at all?
<wxl> correct
<wxl> that question from me was for you hikiko :)
<hikiko--> well I know most of them
<hikiko--> let me ask them to give some testimonials :p
<Kilos> good idea
<wxl> it looks like they're involved in the fosscomms too
<elacheche_anis> Good idea hikiko-- :)
<wxl> you should join the loco team!
<wxl> it sounds like you're already working with them anyways!
<PabloRubianes> LoCo teams usualy lack of strong tecnical people
<wxl> absolutely!!!!
<wxl> they desperately need them
<elacheche_anis> So true.. You should try to get involved with them..
<wxl> i can't read a word of greek but it seems like they're active
<elacheche_anis> Are we good for vote, or there is more questions?
<wxl> well it sounds like she's rounding up testimonials
<Kilos> im in no hurry
<wxl> oh wow they have ubuntu hours http://ubuntu-gr.org/story/30-06-15/ubuntu-hour-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%B8%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%BF
<wxl> ugh greek doesn't render into urls well apparently
<hikiko--> in greece itâs 23:26
<hikiko--> so thereâs no much chance anyone replies
<Kilos> aw
<hikiko--> well, nobody replies :) I guess I canât be an ubuntu member without testimonials right?
<Kilos> sec hikiko--
<Kilos> we will be with you soon
<hikiko--> nooo\
<elacheche_anis> Just a sec hikiko-- :)
<Kilos> soory for the wait
<hikiko--> I have one!!!
<hikiko--> ok ok I wait but I have robert_ancellâs :D
<elacheche_anis> Congrtas for that Testimonial hikiko-- :D
<hikiko--> thanks again robert!!
<robert_ancell> np
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: we still here :) Just seconds and will come back x) sorry for that :)
<hikiko--> no worries :)
<popey> hello
<popey> sorry, i was afk
<elacheche_anis> #voters popey
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes elacheche_anis popey wxl
<Kilos> HI popey
 * popey catches up
<popey> hi Kilos
<hikiko--> hi popey
<elacheche_anis> hikiko--: Work in progress :D
<popey> I'd like to see a more comprehensive wiki page
<hikiko--> no problem elacheche_anis
<popey> we usually like to see more detail, and more testimonials typically
<popey> loving your changes to nux/unity/compiz though :D
<popey> I do wonder if maybe you're more likely to get membership via MOTU
<popey> We usually direct developers that way.
<hikiko--> what is the MOTU?
<popey> You still get membership, but via a different route
<popey> Masters Of The Universe
<popey> Basically people who do predominantly development work
<popey> as opposed to community outreach and advocacy
<popey> Because there's a clear record of your development work
<wxl> â¦the latter of which tends to be what we field
<popey> So it should be a 'slam dunk' as they say in the USA :D
<hikiko--> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU this motu?
<popey> yes
<popey> Check this out too. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
<popey> Does that seem more appropriate?
<hikiko--> yes :) thanks popey
<wxl> sorry for detaining you so long about this whole thing hikiko--
<wxl> and thank you so much for all of your contributions!
<popey> yeah, I'm terribly sorry for being late.
<hikiko--> so, should I give up for the ubuntu membership and try to apply for the developer membership or itâs fine to apply for both?
<Kilos> sorry hikiko-- keep up the good work and popin here now and again for a chat
<popey> I'd go for developer membership
<popey> it seems more appropriate
<wxl> hikiko--: the dev board can approve you for ubuntu membership
<Kilos> if you still want membership  here
<elacheche_anis> If this can count as a good thing hikiko-- this is a 1st time we have all this discussion about 1 person that we realy want to approve but we can't becasue of rules..
<popey> and they can review your work (better than any of us can) :D
<Kilos> fix your wiki page
<hikiko--> ok :) thank you
<popey> Sorry for the confusion.
<Kilos> add everything in it and reapply
<popey> hikiko--: awesome.
<hikiko--> no problem
<popey> Super. Sorry for keeping you up late.
<popey> Ok, any other topics to discuss?
<Kilos> and hikiko-- hope to see you back here soon
<wxl> i'm making a list of improvements from the previous discussion that i'll email out, so no popey. we can continue on there
<hikiko--> sure Kilos thank you all :)
<wxl> thank you so much hikiko-- !
<elacheche_anis> OK, so just for the meetingology records, we are skipping votes becasue hikiko-- needs to apply for the Ubuntu Devel Membership
<Kilos> :)
<elacheche_anis> Keep the GREAT work hikiko--!
<Kilos> hikiko-- look at other members wiki pages for some ideas on that is needed
<elacheche_anis> Ping me when you apply for the Ubuntu Devel Membership, I'll be happy to say a HUGE CONGRATUALTIONS to you!
<wxl> ditto hikiko--
<Kilos> ditto elacheche_anis
<wxl> i'd be more than happy to review your application
<hikiko--> thank you guys I will apply soon!
<PabloRubianes> cheers hikiko
<Kilos> ty hikiko--
<elacheche_anis> We probably should eng the meeting as there is no more applications for tonight!
<elacheche_anis> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  1 20:51:21 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-01-20.03.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-03
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<mdeslaur> \o
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  3 16:30:51 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley provided a debdiff for xenial for kde-cli-tools (LP: #1629145)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629145 in kde-cli-tools (Ubuntu) "Fix CVE-2016-7787" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629145
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> last week was mostly about snappy PR reviews, particularly around snap declarations (but there were others). Various updates to the review tools in preparation for snap declarations
<jdstrand> this week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> snap declarations PR reviews
<jdstrand> defining the base declaration in support of snap declarations
<jdstrand> updating the review tools for snap declarations
<jdstrand> fixing click-apparmor/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu autopkgtests now that click is fixed in yakkety
<jdstrand> im-config upload to xenial-proposed
<jdstrand> (snap declarations are critically important for snapd atm)
<jdstrand> that's it for me. mdeslaur you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on php updates
<mdeslaur> and I have short weeks this week and next week
<mdeslaur> haven't decided yet what update I'll do after php
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I need to do a followup systemd update
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor tasks to do (some bug triage etc)
<sbeattie> I'll try to pick up another update this week as well.
<sbeattie> that's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place again this week
<tyhicks> I need to do some SRU verification (LP: #1580463) (LP: #1614215)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1580463 in im-config (Ubuntu Xenial) "Snap blocks access to system input methods (ibus, fcitx, ...)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614215 in apparmor (Ubuntu Xenial) ""md5sums differ" message seems to indicate an install problem" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614215
<tyhicks> I pitched in some work to help with snaps in lxd last week so now I'm back to testing my apparmor 14.04 SRU for snaps on 14.04
<tyhicks> I'll need to do some sprint prep
<tyhicks> that's all that I'll plan on this week
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have a apparmor stacking bug or two to look into this week, I need to finish up the gsettings work, and I need to work on upstreaming the apparmor kernel delta
<jjohansen> if we get to a point where we can do the 2.11 release I may help out with that as well
<tyhicks> jjohansen: we also need to backport the stacking work to xenial
<tyhicks> jjohansen: nice job on landing all the stacking work in yakkety \o/
<jjohansen> oh, okay I thought we were holding off on that for a couple weeks, to see how yakkety was
<jjohansen> but yes, could definitely work on the backport
<jjohansen> to xenial
<jjohansen> thanks
<tyhicks> jjohansen: we can hold off for a short bit but it might be easier to prepare the backport while all the code is fresh in your mind
<jjohansen> ack
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> hey, I'm i nthe happy plkace this week, I'm resuming the ubuntu-terminal-app review today and hopefully can use standard review tools for zmqpp later on, but if it still can't be built with our tools, I'll just have to go without I guess..
<sarnold> (foundations team told me it'll all be sorted out by release day, but that sounds like no fun :)
<sarnold> after that some direction for next review would be nice, but there's no rush on it
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> This week I've got a Chromium update to test and publish. I was going to do Oxide last week, but there was another Chromium update so I'll include that in the release and do that this week too
<chrisccoulson> I'm currently investigating a firefox/trunk build failure
<chrisccoulson> I also plan to do bug 1628496 (I'm most of the way through this already)
<ubottu> bug 1628496 in Oxide "LocationBarController improvements" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1628496
<chrisccoulson> At some point this week, I want to find something to snap as well
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, it's oxide bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
<ratliff> I am on community this week
<ratliff> I have some design review work and some marketing work lined up for this week as well
<ratliff> I am off on Friday.
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnash.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/collabtive.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/atheme-services.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lshell.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-pecl-http.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  3 16:50:05 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-03-16.30.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks1
<ratliff> thank you tyhicks
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: you're welcome ;)
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: thanks for having a fast turnaround time and for helping me learn the process :)
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: that was all thanks to sarnold :)
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: we look forward to getting more contributions from you :)
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: so how would I contribute besides fixing CVEs then?
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: I was speaking for the security team so I was mostly talking about CVE fixes
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: however, there are a number of other ways that you can contribute to Ubuntu, whether it be bug triage, providing bug fixes, feature development, etc.
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: there is helpful information available here: https://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: I'm already a very active contributor to Ubuntu as a whole, been an Ubuntu Member since February, thanks though ;)
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: I was talking about the security team ;l
<tsimonq2> ;)
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: oh, nice! I misunderstood your question.
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: so what else is there to the security team besides fixing CVEs?
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: there's hardening of the OS, proactive security feature development, and application confinement, to name a few
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: what's the IRC channel?
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: join us in #ubuntu-hardened
<tsimonq2> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-04
<jgrimm> o/
<rharper> o/
<jgrimm> arosales, around to chair today?
<caribou> o/
<powersj> o/
<rbasak> o/
<nacc> o/
<jgrimm> howdy, we may need an alternate chair today
<jgrimm> rharper,  you are next in line.. wanna take?
<rharper> yeah
<jgrimm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  4 16:02:27 2016 UTC.  The chair is rharper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jgrimm> thanks rhaper
<jgrimm> rharper even!
<rharper> jgrimm: sure
<rharper> jgrimm: Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings ?
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> rharper, bah.. i just need to add the rls-x url in again
<jgrimm> rharper, leave it, i'll do right after meeting
<rharper> ok, we'll keep that
<rharper> jamespage checking with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<jamespage> oh boy
<jamespage> better carry that - I need to figure out who to ask
<rharper> sure
<rharper> powersj to put together iso testing signup sheet
<jgrimm> hmm.. that's old
<jgrimm> rharper, where are you looking at agenda from
<powersj> rharper, yeah - done a while ago ;)
<rharper> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20160927
<jgrimm> ok, should have been marked done last time. not on wiki at least
<rharper> #done powersj to put together iso testing signup sheet
<jgrimm> rharper, you are looking at the agenda of last week
<jgrimm> by looking at the minutes. :)
<rharper> but I was successful, 2/3 still need doing =)
<jgrimm> heheheh. indeed!
<rharper> ok, I don't see any other actions to review
<rharper> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<rharper> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> just up to Final Freeze
<jgrimm> rush to the finish line
<rharper> very much
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> anything to discuss wrt urgent/critical for freeze?
<rharper> maybe, smoser re: the nss/cloud-init/dbus.socket stuff
<nacc> down to 4 ftbfs in the test rebuild
<jgrimm> cpaelzer got a new upload in today (already in archive) for dpdk, he has some cleanups to do with respect to latest ovs
<smoser> bug 1629868
<ubottu> bug 1629868 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "times out because of no dbus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629868
<smoser> and bug 1629797
<ubottu> bug 1629797 in systemd (Ubuntu) "resolve service in nsswitch.conf adds 25 seconds to failed lookups before systemd-resolved is up" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629797
<smoser> are the fun
<smoser> they're a result of 2 changes... a.) cloud-init.service now running 'Before=basic.target'
<smoser> b.) adding of 'resolv' to /etc/nsswitch.conf in yakkety
<smoser> sorry, spelling. resolve
<jgrimm> smoser, fix in hand? need help?
<rharper> smoser: and (a) was required to ensure cloud-init can mount/unmount devices
<rharper> before systemd.mount does
<smoser> i'd say *a* fix is possible, but everyone agrees that while being least-intrusive of the options, it seems yucky
<smoser> (that fix is to put 'Before=dbus.service' in cloud-init.service, which seems quite counter obvious at first glance)
<rharper> indeed
<smoser> so, continuing to work that. the good news is it is fairly easily recreatable.
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> ok, i just read the dbus one.
<rharper> any other release items/issues ?
<jgrimm> rls-y looks fine
<rharper> k
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Hi,
<caribou> sosreport up for review, removed the clamav tomsfastmath Universe dependancy
<smoser> i'm hoping to fix bug 1630274 shortly
<ubottu> bug 1630274 in cloud-utils (Ubuntu) "mount-image-callback may not mount overlay when it could" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630274
<caribou> that's about it
<smoser> i need odd_bloke to verify that it works for him, but i expect it to
<rharper> any questions for caribou
<rharper> thanks caribou
<jgrimm> nope, but on the topic, i'm currently working through bugs that have xenial, trusty tasks still in some sort of in-progress state to nudge them along
<jgrimm> get owners as needed, etc
<jgrimm> that's all
<rharper> thanks
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Spent last week at QA sprint with folks from other areas, learned lots. Focusing this week on triage, gathering cloud-init integration test cases, qemu/kvm live migration tests running.
<powersj> Server ISO kernel issues got resolved last week (yea!) and size is decreasing nicely. Only waiting on GCC 6 reductions to hopefully get us down below 703 MB (amd64 is at 743 MB today). Post-release will continue analysis of ISO size and contents. /qa_update
<rharper> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<rharper> powersj: thanks for the summary from the sprint, that was super helpful
<nacc> +1
<powersj> good to hear :)
<rharper> should be an interesting discussion with the team later this week
<rharper> any questions for powersj ?
<jgrimm> :) heh. josh already had to hear a few rants from me.
<rharper> haha
<rharper> yeah, I was resisting the urge to poke the messenger
<jgrimm> :)
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<rharper> nothing from kernel team
<rharper> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> any new CfPs to think about ?
<jgrimm> fosdem 2017 has end of Oct CFP deadline
<jgrimm> otherwise october looking pretty empty for CFPs (according to LWN)
<rharper> y
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> LinuxCon Europe / ContainerCon Europe: stgraber & brauner are there for LXD/LXC
<jgrimm> this week
<rharper> ODS is in a few too
<jgrimm> indeed that time o year
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> floor's open
<jgrimm> i'll bring up the z blueprint again just for awareness
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<rharper> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> open for business
<jgrimm> thanks!
<jgrimm> that's all from me
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing from me this week. Carry on as normal I think! Any questions or issues to raise?
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rharper> Next meeting will be same time a week from now, chair will be rharper (I shall taunt you a second time!)
<jgrimm> :)
<rharper> #action jgrimm Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm Add a url for server release bugs to irc commands for meetings
<rharper> #action jamespage checking with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage checking with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<rharper> adding those for next time since we carry them
<rharper> and that's it folks
<jgrimm> thanks rharper
<rharper> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  4 16:29:40 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-04-16.02.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks
<nacc> rharper: thanks!
<rharper> np
<arosales> jgrimm: thanks for chairing today, to confirm am I am deck for next week?
<jgrimm> arosales, rharper took next week too, unless you'd like a makeup?
<arosales> I should be in the office the next 3 weeks, so any of those work for me. Next week is fine and it looks like the wiki currently shows that
<arosales> jgrimm: rharper: I can chair next week
<jgrimm> arosales, thanks!!
<arosales> jgrimm: thanks for chairing this week
<jgrimm> heh rharper gets the thanks ^
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-06
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<barry> o/
<caribou> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  6 15:01:46 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> doko caribou bdmurray sil2100 slangasek infinity xnox cyphermox chiluk tdaitx mwhudson pitti robru barry
<slangasek> doko_: hullo!
<barry> win!
<doko_> - last week Linaro Connect, Monday bank holiday
<doko_>  - cross toolchain updates
<xnox> ah
<doko_>  - lintian update, makedumpfile for arm64
<caribou> doko_: makedumpfile fix is in the upcoming debian pkg
<doko_>  - "final" GCC update, seeing timeouts on arm64 with new kernels
<doko_> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  /etc/multipath/wwids not updated upon restart (LP: #1621835)
<caribou>     Blocked by potential regression with .14 (LP: #1629644)
<caribou>  Request to backport rsyslog Xenial to trusty
<caribou>     NAK, dependancy problems.
<caribou>  Slow SSH login
<caribou>     - Could be the same as LP: #1591411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1621835 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "multipathd reconfigure does not update /etc/multipath/wwids file on trusty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629644 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Trusty: failure to detect device with 0.4.9-3ubuntu7.14" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629644
<caribou>     - Asked to test sil2100 PPA fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1591411 in dbus (Ubuntu Xenial) "systemd-logind must be restarted every ~1000 SSH logins to prevent a ~25 second delay" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591411
<caribou> Development :
<caribou>  Working on a sosreport charm :
<caribou>  - Submitted for review & inclusion in the charm store
<caribou>  tomsfastpath MIR :
<caribou>   - clamav fixed to use 'in package' library
<caribou>   - upload blocked on llvm-toolchain-3.6 FTBS
<caribou>  makedumpfile not working on kernel 4.8 (LP: #1626269)
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1626269 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626269). The error has been logged
<caribou>   - Still under investigation, waiting on upstream
<caribou>  Working on a sosreport and gtimelog snap
<caribou> Misc
<caribou>  meeting
<caribou> & some makedumpfile work
<caribou> â Done
<bdmurray> phased-updater changes to look at release pocket for regression comparisons
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1574193, uploaded SRUs for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1574193 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu-support-status lists end-of-support packages (after EOL) as supported" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574193
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1614576, uploaded Y fix for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614576 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from xenial to yakkety fails due to a UnicodeDecodeError" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614576
<bdmurray> uploaded Yakkety, Xenial fix of LP:  #1619188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619188 in casper (Ubuntu Xenial) "Unattended upgrades can break persistent live media" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619188
<bdmurray> reported software-properties bug LP: #1630731
<bdmurray> bug triage of LP: #1444682
<bdmurray> upload update-manager fix for LP: #1629900 to Yakkety
<bdmurray> SRU training with rbasak
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1630731 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "autodownload check in get_update_automation_level doesn't check hard enough" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1444682 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Software properties gtk implies my cpu is unknown and not working. " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629900 in update-manager (Ubuntu Yakkety) "update-manager crashed with ValueError in require_version(): Namespace Unity not available" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629900
<bdmurray> irc discussion with nuclearbob re upgrade testing
<bdmurray> foundations, iso-testing bug triage
<sil2100> caribou: yeah, from what people said this fix didn't really work though, will try another one from the proposals in the upstream bug
<bdmurray> unattended-upgrades bug triage
<bdmurray> â done
<caribou> sil2100: ok, keeping an eye on it
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - xenial arm64: * Reviewing all xenial touch systemd merge requests * Prepare and test lxc-android-config silo with all changes * Poke about upstart getting released * Filling in RT for an arm64 scalingstack node for the custom tarball jenkins * Importing first arm64 frieza custom tarball * Building and importing first systemd enabled touch rootfs image
<sil2100> - Fixing xenial i386 builds, yakkety armhf builds
<sil2100> - Improve the instrumentation sync scripts to allow remote patch management
<sil2100> - More work on the landing-team-tools snap - dealing with some minor issues now
<sil2100> - Look into the s390x pyzmq unit test failure, attempt building a workaround
<slangasek> caribou: why are you using llvm-toolchain-3.6 instead of llvm-toolchain-3.8?  (I think I saw this question asked on #ubuntu-devel the other day...)
<sil2100> - Promote emulator OTA-13 images
<sil2100> - Fix small breakage in commitlog generation
<sil2100> - Help out with ubuntu-push dead-dependencies removal for MIR
<sil2100> - Work on documenting the new landing process for snaps
<sil2100> (done)
<pitti> sil2100: did I read "emulator"?
<caribou> slangasek: higher than 3.6 requires sensible modification of the package & debian is not done yet
<sil2100> pitti: yeah, the ubuntu-emulator images ;)
<pitti> sil2100: *\o/* !
<caribou> slangasek: https://www.mail-archive.com/pkg-clamav-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org/msg04458.html
<slangasek> doko_, xnox: could one of you help caribou with his clamav vs. llvm problem, so we can un-stick this for release?
<xnox> ok.
<caribou> slangasek: right now, debian has the same problem as they are transitioning to llvm-3.8 and clamav no longer builds there either
<slangasek>  * releasey stuff - lots of queue reviews and update_excuses prodding
<slangasek>  * finished landing unity8 session on the desktop ISO \o/
<slangasek>  * fixed a few unaligned access SIGBUSes on armhf, exposed by the change to launchpad builder config; these cause previously-working packages to FTBFS and sometimes now fail autopkgtests (python-xmp-toolkit) and are reproducible on porter-arm64 but not porter-armhf
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> -infinity
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> fixing bridge_role attribute race in s390-tools (in a silo)
<xnox> adding apt-key support to ubuntu-release-upgrader
<xnox> merge proposal for archive signing for next series
<xnox> upstart review/merge for systemd bridge support
<xnox> d-i version stamp fixes for automated testing
<xnox> testing zfcpdump kernel for apw
<xnox> done
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - grub2 ipv6 fixes SRU (bug LP: #1229458)
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - hw-detect modprobe fix (bug LP: #1602717)
<cyphermox> - shim revert to 0.8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229458 in MAAS "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602717 in hw-detect (Ubuntu Xenial) "hw-detect modprobes blindly, ignoring blacklists" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602717
<cyphermox>   - davmor2 caught a fail there because MokManager.
<cyphermox> - d-i respin for shim fix
<cyphermox> - open-iscsi autopkgtest debugging
<cyphermox> - more open-iscsi autopkgtest debugging
<cyphermox> - ppc64el issue partitioning with JFS (bug LP: #1630017)
<cyphermox> - sync e2fsprogs for segfault fix (bug LP: #1627608)
<cyphermox> - upload ubiquity 16.10.12
<cyphermox> - ubiquity kde frontend porting to pyqt5
<cyphermox>   - to unbreak the slideshow...
<cyphermox> - zomg ubiquity icon and UI fixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1630017 in partman-prep (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 16.10 installation with root as JFS file system fails" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627608 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu) "resize2fs crashed with SIGSEGV in ext2fs_extent_translate()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627608
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - coordinating with juju team
<cyphermox> - netcfg hostname magic (bug LP: #1452202)
<cyphermox> - review probert PR: read NM leases in networkd format
<cyphermox> - review subiquity/probert pull requests
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1452202 in preseed (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu preseed install fails to set a hostname" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452202
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: so on the shim revert... best idea I can think of is to rescue the MokManager binary from the original 0.8 package and pass it through.  We still have all the source for it, we just wouldn't use the one we're building because $reasons
<cyphermox> slangasek: that was my plan too
<cyphermox> no other way about it anyway
<cyphermox> just *omg it's still borken*
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> chiluk: hi
<slangasek> tdaitx is having Internet problems today
<slangasek> pitti:
<pitti> just a 3-day week (conference days Thu/Fri and national holiday Mon)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti> - Debug endless retry loop with broken kernel (#1630578)
<pitti> - Fix autopkgtest.u.c. navbar in mobile mode
<pitti> - Fix virt-qemu for user/password logins on ttyS0 [ongoing] (#1630963)
<pitti> - Investigate and fix missing/hidden test requests
<pitti> - Various generalizations for running system-image tests from GitHub, barry's system-image tests are now in place
<pitti> distro:
<pitti> - cloud-init: Investigate DNS resolution deadlock in early boot (#1629797)
<pitti> - glibc: Debug/fix locale-related crash (#1577460)
<pitti> - gnome-keyring: Fix dependency loop
<pitti> - systemd: Fix the previous security patch for notify assertion (#1628687)
<pitti> - systemd, gnome-session: Robustify and simplify run-systemd-session, no shell polling loops any more
<pitti> lots of yakkety archive admin/reviews and SRU processing
<pitti> ð
<barry> s/system-image/ubuntu-image
<pitti> "project"
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> robru:
<barry> btw, it works great (modulo hopefully a minor issue) - thanks pitti!  so much better than travis+docker
<pitti> robru: haven't forgotten your britney branch review, just swamped; will still get to it this week
<slangasek> barry: and now you can use it for testing s390x all-snap images!
<barry> \o/
<slangasek> barry: no sign of robru, go ahead?
<pitti> no nested qemu for s390x yet, needs scalingstack
<barry> ubuntu-image: LP: #1617445 (coverage branch)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617445 in Ubuntu Image "Pay down coverage tech debt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617445
<barry> debuntu: python-pluggy 0.4.0-1; unfutz debian machine; testing gpg-agent/upstart problem this morning
<barry> misc: kiwi pycon trip report
<barry> â done
<slangasek> alrighty
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> one week to release
<slangasek> I think you maybe all know what to do :)
<pitti> I think it's time for an early 4.9 kernel!
<xnox> AOB: why did she not choose Bernie as VP? Also, only 80 sleeps until Christmas. Regent Street decorations are going up.
<barry> pitti: yes, because bisecting kernel failures for 4.8 was so much fun!
<pitti> "if it's hard, do it more often"
<xnox> i still see a few bugs w.r.t. 4.8 kernel filed for ppc64el....
<pitti> barry: "was" â "is"
<pitti> also on x86
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=kernel-4.8
 * xnox doesn't use legacy architecutres
<barry> awesome
<slangasek> xnox: because politics is complicated and political advisors all have their own bias when it comes to deciphering what will win an election :)
 * pitti wants to see xnox's s390x phone
<cyphermox> xnox: for you legacy == !s390x?
<xnox> cyphermox, not made by IBM =)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else, for realsies?
<cyphermox> you know, people could argue the other way around...
<cyphermox> not from me ;)
<cyphermox> oh actually
<slangasek> Monday is nat hol in the US
<pitti> any OMGcritical installer bugs known that are in foundation land?
<xnox> perfect timing
<cyphermox> also thanksgiving in Canada
<xnox> pitti, well just the last minute port from Qt4 to Qt5.
<slangasek> oh indeed
<slangasek> so a few of us will be snoozing Monday
<cyphermox> pitti: other icon stuff
<cyphermox> (for ubiquity)
<bdmurray> what's the status of bug 1626622?
<ubottu> bug 1626622 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Yakkety) "yakkety server: fails to detect and mount CD-ROM" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626622
<xnox> are both cyphermox & infinity going to celebrate extended thanksgiving? is that on a thursday?
<cyphermox> but I've finished the pyqt5 porting, and the icons I will fix in a bit
 * xnox googles when is canadian thanksgiving
<cyphermox> monday
<xnox> ah monday.
<slangasek> yes, Canadian is at a higher latitude, so the harvest comes earlier, therefore it's on a Monday instead of a Thursday
 * cyphermox read altitude
<xnox> slangasek, right......
<bdmurray> xnox: Are you still looking at bug 1611256?
<ubottu> bug 1611256 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "X to Y upgrade fails with gconf2 depends on python3:any; however: Package python3 is not configured yet." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611256
<xnox> you could have fooled me
<bdmurray> Oh, bug 1626622 seems fixed so don't worry about that.
<ubottu> bug 1626622 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Yakkety) "yakkety server: fails to detect and mount CD-ROM" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626622
<slangasek> seems like that's everything
<slangasek> unless robru or chiluk have anything to add
<bdmurray> xnox: Are you still looking at bug 1611256?
<ubottu> bug 1611256 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "X to Y upgrade fails with gconf2 depends on python3:any; however: Package python3 is not configured yet." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611256
<chiluk> sorry slangasek.. not much from me this week.. just tracking down kernel bugs.
<xnox> bdmurray, no.
<bdmurray> xnox: Do you have time to?
<slangasek> chiluk: ok
<xnox> bdmurray, i really should.
<xnox> it was trivial to reproduce, cause my laptop hit it
<slangasek> [ACTION] xnox to investigate bug #1611256
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to investigate bug #1611256
<ubottu> bug 1611256 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "X to Y upgrade fails with gconf2 depends on python3:any; however: Package python3 is not configured yet." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611256
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  6 15:36:39 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-06-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks :)
<pitti> thanks everyone
<xnox> lol
<barry> o/
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-02
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  2 16:30:57 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) provided debdiffs for trusty-zesty for jython (LP: #1714728)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1714728 in jython (Ubuntu Zesty) "[CVEs] Creates executables class files with wrong permissions, Unsafe deserialization leads to code execution" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714728
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> * PR reviews for layouts (snappy team), per user mounts (desktop team) and other PRs as needed
<jdstrand> * continue uid/gid work
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> * prepare for sprint
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week...
<mdeslaur> just published a few updates
<mdeslaur> I have to see what else to work on
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I have some tasks from the sprint to finish up: finishing some conversions from bzr to git, and some other process things to look at.
<sbeattie> I'm working on a perl update, and will look at other updates for this week
<sbeattie> will have the usual kernel triage to do
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage
<tyhicks> I may try to make some changes to the CVE triage utilities to match a new workflow that we identified/discussed at the rally last week
<jdstrand> oh I forget one:
<tyhicks> I'm about to test my new fscrypt package that contains the pam module and other new work
<jdstrand> * miscellaneous policy updates based on last week's sprint feedback
<tyhicks> I need to work on a one-off CVE reporting script
<tyhicks> I'll finalize and prepare a PR against snapd for dynamic seccomp logging features
<tyhicks> I think that's it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I am working on the 4.15 pull request, so that is type splitting and unix domain sockets revisions
<jjohansen> but I am also going to spend some time helping jdstrand with some sprint prep (a demo)
<jdstrand> oh, am I demo'ing that?
<jjohansen> I also need to spend some time reviewing mjg's patches, get the latest revision of the LSM stacking patches to the kt, and clean up said LSM stacking patches and kick them back to Casey for his feedback
<jdstrand> I thought I was going to help you get a demo together for someone to demo :P
<jjohansen> jdstrand: uh well that is what I thought was going to happen, /me certainly isn't
<jdstrand> that can be discussed elsewhere
<jjohansen> okay, the /me revises to help jdstrand get a demo together for some brave soul to demo
<jjohansen> thats it for /me, sarnold isn't around today so back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> I've got firefox and chromium updates to test and publish, as well as a thunderbird update to do
<chrisccoulson> I need to get cargo updated to 0.20 - hoping that will go ok
<chrisccoulson> and then I'll be working on the apparmor audit change we discussed last week
<chrisccoulson> oh, I need to prepare a mock up of the start page for will, but that shouldn't take long
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<chrisccoulson> fingers crossed my laptop doesn't die :)
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I will complete the release audits
<ratliff> I have a high priority internal task and a few tasks to complete as part of sprint prep.
<ratliff> on to you, leosilva
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week.
<leosilva> I'll do the usual hunting pkgs to update, as well I have a dnsmasq to try to update (old code it seems, cross fingers(
<leosilva> that's it from me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/not-yet-commons-ssl.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/blueman.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pycsw.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/yaml-cpp0.3.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openttd.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> the next meeting will be in two weeks (Oct 16th)
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  2 16:48:22 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-02-16.30.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<leosilva> tks tyhicks !
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I guess we should add that I'll be helping jj to my todo list
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: Thanks for the ping :D
<tsimonq2> blueman is on my radar
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-03
<powersj> o/
<powersj> this should be a fast one...
<powersj> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  3 16:00:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is powersj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<powersj> #topic Review ACTION points from the previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from the previous meeting
<powersj> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<powersj> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<powersj> * nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes (carried over)
<powersj> ^^ any update nacc?
<powersj> * smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful (carried over)
<powersj> ^^ any update smoser?
<smoser> o/
<rharper> o/
<blackboxsw> \o
<smoser> well, i didnt do anything so carry over i guess.
<smoser> :-(
<nacc> powersj: carry
<powersj> ok moving on
<powersj> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<powersj> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<powersj> #subtopic Current Work
<powersj> We had final beta last week
<powersj> Looks like kernel freeze this week
<smoser> fyi, for release notes
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes
<dpb1> we have something for release notes started, FWIW
<powersj> #info Final beta out, kernel freeze this week, final freeze, next week
<dpb1> but, it's not done, so carry-over seems fine
<powersj> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<powersj> #subtopic Release Bugs
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> list looks pretty good
<powersj> 2x cloud-init bugs, smoser will those get fixed in upload?
<smoser> powersj, well, the fstab one... that one is not fixed in upstream
<smoser> we had to revert the fix. i just set the state right.
<blackboxsw>  #1691489 has been reverted
<blackboxsw> sorry late
<powersj> ok
<powersj> moving on then
<powersj> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<slashd> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25667515/
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<slashd> - An interesting one, affecting the snaps installation (such as livepatch) on Trusty if /var/ is on its own partition (systemd related).
<slashd> - The percona change need to be pushed in artful first, and rbasak did the first sponsoring, so I'll ask him when he get back to do a 2nd round of review.
<slashd> - python-neutronclient doesn't do bash completion, SRU almost completed. I'll ask SRU team to release to -update this week.
<slashd> Everything is under control for now.
<powersj> #info SRU pending for : python-neutronclient, percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, systemd
<powersj> slashd: thanks! appreciate the pastebin too
<powersj> #info http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25667515/
<slashd> powersj, yw
<powersj> also at the Rally we talked about getting through some older bugs on trusty
<powersj> and xenial
<powersj> try to get that list down
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week I was at the Ubuntu Rally. Met with lots of the other folks to discuss QA of Ubuntu server.
<powersj> #link https://powersj.github.io/ubuntu/2017/10/02/ubuntu-rally-nyc.html
<powersj> This week I am working on some minor fixes/enhancements to the cloud-init integration tests agreed to at the Rally.
<powersj> ISOs are green across the board as well.
<powersj> questions for me?
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<blackboxsw> powersj: probably worth a shout out of your blog
<powersj> sforshee: any update? I don't see smb
<powersj> blackboxsw: I put a link above ;)
<blackboxsw> heh probably worth two shout outs :)
<powersj> haha
<powersj> #info no update this week
<powersj> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<blackboxsw> missed it because I hilighted on the line below
<powersj> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<powersj> I don't see anything big
<powersj> but I am considering https://www.linuxfestnorthwest.org/2018
<powersj> since it is near by
<powersj> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<powersj> no upcoming events that I am aware of
<powersj> #topic askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
<powersj> teward: any update?
<powersj> going once.... twice....
<powersj> #info no update
<powersj> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<powersj> Anyone have anything?
<nacc> lots of git-ubuntu updates to the snap in the last week
<nacc> mostly just to get it working
<powersj> #info lots of git-ubuntu updates this past week
<powersj> \o/
<nacc> please test it! esp. the build in a LXD bits
<dpb1> nacc: man git-ubuntu ?
<nacc> dpb1: should work (per the adjustment needed in the announcement email)
<nacc> the manpages should be complete in edge today
<nacc> (hopefully)
<powersj> #info https://community.ubuntu.com/
<powersj> Anything else?
<powersj> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<powersj> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-10-10 at 1600 UTC, chair will be nacc (powersj backup)
<powersj> Thanks folks!
<powersj> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  3 16:14:01 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-03-16.00.moin.txt
<nacc> powersj: thanks
<dpb1> thanks powersj
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-05
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<Tribaal> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  5 15:01:26 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> fginther bdmurray rcj xnox tribaal rbalint tdaitx philroche doko infinity cyphermox Odd_Bloke slangasek mwhudson sil2100
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Wow, dead-last
<fginther> goodness, one moment
<fginther> * Continued library development to facilitate automated publication
<fginther> * provided an automation script to IS to improve deployment of cloud-image jenkaas slaves
<fginther> * Enabled launchpad <-> trello automation
<fginther> (done)
<bdmurray> Research into LP: #1515513 re: dkms leftovers in /boot
<bdmurray> Uploaded X and Z SRUs for LP: #1515513
<bdmurray> Tested LP: #1720331 re whoopsie restarting constantly
<bdmurray> Investigation into gdebi python3.6 issue LP: #1708947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1515513 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "/boot/initrd.img-*.old-dkms files left behind" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1720331 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Whoopsie continually relaunching" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720331
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1708947 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "gdebi-kde crashed with ModuleNotFoundError in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/PyKDE4/__init__.py: No module named 'DLFCN'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1708947
<bdmurray> HIGHLIGHT(?): Wrote blog post re free-ing space in /boot - http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=156
<bdmurray> reported LP: #1721364 re apt autoremove and Never-MarkAuto-Sections
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1721364 in apt (Ubuntu) "Never-MarkAuto-Sections not working" [High,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721364
<bdmurray> tested LP: #1715490 again, looked for similar bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715490 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "pretty version of plymouth won't accept passphrase" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715490
<Tribaal> SCHWEET
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> SCHWEET?
<Tribaal> Swiss-German for "Sweet"
<Tribaal> JIT meeting :)
<slangasek> skip rcj for the moment
<rcj> * sprinted
<slangasek> heh
<rcj> * got sick after sprint
<Odd_Bloke> * failed to read lists of people
<rcj> * automated cloud-image build work
<rcj> done
<xnox> artful ntp vs systemd: systemd is in -proposed, ntp is the unapproved queue - please review
<xnox> zesty: systemd failed verification, fixup and more fixes are in the unapproved queue - please review
<xnox> xenial: systemd passed verification, there are adt regressions. Filed bugs for linux-* and open-iscsi, these appear to be broken tests. nplan seems to fail for a testcase in NetworkManager, and nplan/autostart test case appears to have regressed under lxc on xenial. However, creating autopkgtest lxc container does not work for me on artful
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> openssl-ibmca libica et.al. landed thus we have full accelerated z14 encryption landed
<xnox> mdadm/systemd shutdown - still in progress
<xnox> fixed s390-dasd for final beta (failing to format DASD drives)
<xnox> zfcpdump-kernel - failing to upgrade for GA, to be escalated to IBM
<xnox> cloud-init leases merge in progress (started, and handed over to cloud-init team)
<xnox> ...
<slangasek> Tribaal:
<Tribaal> * Some of the memory issues investigated previously were due to transparent huge pages being set to "enabled". That led to memory fragmentation.
<Tribaal> * Vaguard duties for the build system this week.
<Tribaal> * Helping partners kick the tires on the final 17.10 beta to make sure everything is ok for the final release.
<Tribaal> * OoO tomorrow and beginning of next week
<Tribaal> done.
<rbalint> * GCE new upstream LP: #1718922
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1718922 in gce-compute-image-packages (Ubuntu Zesty) "Update google compute-image-packages to 20170921 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718922
<rbalint> * UBuntu Rally
<rbalint> * image minimization
<rbalint> * updating runc to 1.0.0~rc4 and creating docker-runc with the version needed by docker.io in Debian
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades 0.98 for Debian
<rbalint> (done)
<tdaitx> * Trying to figure out OpenJDK 8 build failure in i386 (error: "unsupported size for integer register")
<tdaitx> * +1 maint
<tdaitx> * Checked and (re)setup jenkaas slaves for jck after the lgw01 scalingstack redeploy (zeroed slaves)
<tdaitx> (done)
<philroche> - Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> - Ubuntu rally (via hangouts)
<philroche> - Cloud image build system development
<philroche> - Cloud partner calls
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> doko:
<bdmurray> no infinity either
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> shim:
<cyphermox> - preparing shim for signing
<cyphermox> - Microsoft and shim-review submissions
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - unbroke keyboard selection/translations in ubiquity due to console-setup
<cyphermox> - reword partman-efi non_efi_system template again
<cyphermox> - testing subiquity image
<cyphermox> SRUs:
<cyphermox> - [xenial] preparing ubiquity SRU for WPA2 Enterprise support (LP: #1107935)
<cyphermox> - [xenial] investigating search domains issue in klibc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1107935 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Support for WPA Enterprise wireless networks" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1107935
<cyphermox> - [zesty] isc-dhcp DNS search domains handling
<cyphermox> other:
<cyphermox> - catching up on cloud image minimization work
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.29 backport to 16.04 is waiting in the unapproved queue
<cyphermox> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Ubuntu Rally last week
<Odd_Bloke> * Finalising new GCE publication flow in preparation for bb opening
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparing for product sprint next week
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<slangasek>  * at the Ubuntu Rally last week in New York, lots of great discussions and development work
<slangasek>   * first in-person meetings for a while with quorum of the archive, SRU, and release teams
<slangasek>   * worked with the foundations team to fix papercuts around netplan, systemd-network migration
<slangasek>   * worked with the kernel team to design solution for extra initramfs generation on package removal
<slangasek>  * HIGHLIGHT (if sil2100 doesn't do it) Artful Final Beta released last week
<slangasek>  * working on livecd-rootfs changes for artful and xenial:
<slangasek>   * landing support for preinstallation of snaps in images
<slangasek>   * adding support for minimizing cloud images
<slangasek>  * next week, at the Product Roadmap Sprint, again in NYC
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Sprinting, then swap day, then partially away due to sickness (not really productive yet)
<sil2100> - Setting up e-mail for release-bits
<sil2100> - SRU reviews, cleanup and releases
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image work on coverage, refactoring the builder classes
<sil2100> - Reading up on preparations for final release
<sil2100> - Last week: Final Beta :O
<sil2100> Ah, indeed, that was a good highlight!
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<bdmurray> Nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> probably late in the cycle to be committing to anything non-critical for the 17.10 release :)
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> there are a couple of 'high' bugs here
<bdmurray> I mentioned bug 1721364 but would like to discuss it
<ubottu> bug 1721364 in apt (Ubuntu) "Never-MarkAuto-Sections not working" [High,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721364
<slangasek> bdmurray: fwiw I have it in my inbox to review the commit jak pointed to
<slangasek> bdmurray: but I guess we should discuss what the path forward is if that doesn't get reverted?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Yeah, autoremove could have surprising results.
<slangasek> frustrating
<slangasek> bdmurray: so your position is that it's too high-risk?
<bdmurray> Well, I'm guessing people remove metapackages like ubuntu-desktop but could be wrong.
<slangasek> I don't know; they might because they wanted to remove one of the packages it pulled in
<bdmurray> I mean if they've used autoremove in recent history then they would have hit an issue.
<bdmurray> s/hit an issue/ran into this/
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah.  I think we should revisit with upstream the decision to change how markauto is handled, but that won't change the fact that systems already installed will have their package database in a state that makes autoremove dangerous
<slangasek> bdmurray: which I guess leaves only the remove-newly-autoremovable path, which rbalint has mentioned?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Yeah, I think so
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> annoying, that's going to take more work to implement
<slangasek> but +1 for this on the path forward
<bdmurray> Well the newly-autoremovable only works if you are install the kernel update with u-u
<slangasek> couldn't we make it work with update-manager?
<slangasek> by implementing the same logic as in u-u
<bdmurray> Oh, I see
<slangasek> this isn't something we need to magically solve for users running apt from the commandline
<slangasek> they will run apt autoremove or not
<slangasek> bdmurray: agreed?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Yes
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else on bugs?
<slangasek> we have two 'high' in incoming
<bdmurray> bug 1720331 - I'm not sure if its whoopsie or the control panel
<ubottu> bug 1720331 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Whoopsie continually relaunching" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720331
<rbalint> slangasek, bdmurray: the remove-newly-autoremovable path is already released in u-u which is why i'm hesitant to revert it, but special handling for kernel packages seem to be a safer bet
<bdmurray> rbalint: We weren't talking about reverting it but using the same code in update-manager
<bdmurray> cyphermox: Is not being able to use 'videoinfo' in grub relevant with bug 1715490?
<ubottu> bug 1715490 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "pretty version of plymouth won't accept passphrase" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715490
<slangasek> bdmurray: AIUI videoinfo is specific to VESA, and if you're using the qemu vga driver you don't even have VESA
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I don't think so
<slangasek> so you don't have videoinfo because it's literally not configurable
<rbalint> bdmurray: yes, i mentioned that because https://launchpad.net/linux-purge is a valid safer alternative imo
<bdmurray> Okay, well I couldn't find any more bugs like 1715490 so lets punt it then
<rbalint> bdmurray: and i think it is worth a separate discussion
<cyphermox> sounds like it's "just" broken video in VM, "as usual"
<sil2100> heh
<slangasek> ok; anything else on bugs?
<cyphermox> oh, also
<cyphermox> bdmurray: you on artful and running in wayland?
<bdmurray> cyphermox: the host or the guest?
<cyphermox> because that breaks arrow keys, so it wouldn't be overly surprising if it broke video too somehow
<rbalint> bdmurray: but adding remove-newly-autoremovable option to update-manager is also valuable for the sake of consistency IMO, it may or may not be the default
<cyphermox> on the host
<slangasek> rbalint: this is only interesting to do if we make it the default
<bdmurray> cyphermox: not wayland
<cyphermox> aok
<bdmurray> I did get the arrow key issue though
<cyphermox> ok
<rbalint> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> nope
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  5 15:38:55 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-05-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<bdmurray> Monday is a US holiday though
<slangasek> true
<cyphermox> yep, Thanksgiving!
<bdmurray> Doh, Canada too
<bdmurray> My bad
<elopio> RadioZen: this is not the best place. You can try askubuntu.com
<ahoneybun> Here everyone
<elopio> here o/
<flexiondotorg> Present o/
<ahoneybun> is it 4/6 that we need for a meeting in general
<ahoneybun> ?
<flexiondotorg> Is quorum required to meet? Isn't that just if there is a vote?
<ahoneybun> I think just for votes
<ahoneybun> just checking
<flexiondotorg> marcoceppi: Will you be joining us?
<flexiondotorg> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  5 17:01:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is flexiondotorg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<flexiondotorg> Let's assume we are meeting :-)
<flexiondotorg> wxl: Will you be joining?
<wxl> o/
<ahoneybun> o/
<flexiondotorg> Well, we have 4 of us so far. Let's see if we are joined by any others. If not, we'll get started in a few mins.
<flexiondotorg> So we know jose can't make it. Possibly
<wxl> what about marcoceppi ?
<flexiondotorg> It is possible the elacheche is also travelling.
<wxl> is sabdfl joining us?
<flexiondotorg> wxl: sabdfl is in NYC. Not sure if he will be joining.
<wxl> ah ok
<flexiondotorg> I think we should assume it's just us for now.
<wxl> ok
<flexiondotorg> I think we are all aqauinted, but introductions are probably a good idea.
<flexiondotorg> I am Martin Wimpress. I work for Canonical as a Developer Advocate. I'm also the lead for Ubuntu MATE, which is a personal project.
<flexiondotorg> Who's next.
 * elacheche loves MATE :D
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Hello, and thank you :-)
<wxl> I'm Walter Lapchynski. I work for a small bicycle manufacturer in the US, which I help manage an array of Kubuntu desktops and FreeBSD/Ubuntu servers. I contribute mostly to Kubuntu and Lubuntu.
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun: You next?
<elopio> I am Leo Arias, from Costa Rica. I work on the snapcraft team at canonical. I have contributed with LoCo events, translations, bug triaging and a few other things.
<elacheche> Hey there! I am Anis, I work as a SysAdmin, I lead the Tunisian LoCo Team and try to contribute to any Tunisian FOSS projects whenever I have spare time..
<ahoneybun> I'm Aaron Honeycutt from Denver CO, I work support at system76
<wxl> Oh, I guess I should also mention I'm still on the LoCo Council and the Ubuntu Membership Board and I'm also the Ubuntu Oregon Team Lead.
<flexiondotorg> wxl Busy then!
<wxl> flexiondotorg: yeah, especially given i have a wife, a daughter, a house, a full time job, etc. XD
<flexiondotorg> Given that we're all new here, does anyone have anything they want to discuss regarding the Community Council?
<wxl> p.s. should we be using meetingology?
<flexiondotorg> wxl I start it
<flexiondotorg> *started
<elopio> I have a few points I would like to propose. Should I go ahead?
<flexiondotorg> Yep
<wxl> actually i have something, too, when elopio is done.
<flexiondotorg> Great. So do I
<elopio> First, it worries me that we are an all-male panel, and would like to work to improve that for the next election in two years. Second, I think it these meetings would be awesome as youtube on air.
<elopio> or maybe we could have a text meeting, and a video meeting.
<ahoneybun> video meetings are nice
<elopio> (and as a side note, there's a bad storm here, I might lose electricity, internet and water any time during the meeting. If I'm gone, please continue and I'll check back later)
<wxl> elopio: do you think there are examples of non-inclusiveness within the community that we can address?
<flexiondotorg> I agree with your first point. I think that points to a large issue of Ubuntu Member drop off which I feel we should try and turn around.
<wxl> afaik we had no nominations for anyone female
<elopio> wxl: I think we need to investigate that first, and use the reset on community.ubuntu.com to our advantage to make sure it is inclusive from the begining.
<flexiondotorg> I also agree that video meetings would be a great way to communicate more effortlessly.
<wxl> i think video meetings would possibly be a good way to invite the community to participate with us
<flexiondotorg> And are more accessible for the wider community to access.
<wxl> i think we should be responding to the needs of the community and unless we invite them in to speak with us and make us accessibility, we'll be hard pressed to do that
<elopio> for the video, maybe we can use 45 minutes to go through our agenda, and leave 15 minutes in the end to answer questions from the community, or listen to their input.
<flexiondotorg> Complete agree wxl.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: I also think we should leverage the new Ubuntu Community Hub.
<wxl> as an alternate, perhaps we should create a new thing that is like a Q&A session
<elacheche> About the 1st point, we should investigate the roots, we need to find ways to get people around to world to contribute more, then apply for a membership, and encourage them to keep contributing and apply for boards!
<wxl> like a town hall meeting
<flexiondotorg> If we are to reach a new generation of Ubuntu users, and help onboard them to the community, we should use technologies they will embrace.
<ahoneybun> +100 to the video meetings
<wxl> i don't think that membership or locos are a very visible part of what we do, but the cc is
<flexiondotorg> While I'm happy using IRC and mailing lists, they are not a great way to attract new users and contributors.
<wxl> (to the outside)
<popey> Note: Text is translatable, easily logged, easily read very quickly. videos less so.
<wxl> i think we can transcribe it
<wxl> i can work on finding solutions for that
<popey> You won't :)
<popey> Everyone who makes videos says "we'll transcribe it" but they don't :)
<wxl> i meant algorithmically
<wxl> i've been looking at it recently anyways
<wxl> because i HATE videos, personally
<elacheche> About the video meeting, it'll be good, and have already the video chat plateform for the other private meeting, we should not drop IRC..
<elopio> popey: hum, it's not terribly hard to translate subtitles for a video. Not a lot harder than for an irc meeting. But we would need help to do both, that's for sure. And that might be a good way to encourage new people to join.
<flexiondotorg> I see that we are all agreed on growing the Ubuntu community membership though :-D
<popey> Videos are actually more intimidating for new people than text
<popey> And harder to join when you're at work.
<wxl> i disagree given the current culture, popey
<wxl> but do agree with how distracting they are
<ahoneybun> youtube has some translations
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: Yeah, but that's the result of helping locos being more active!
<elopio> flexiondotorg: with the note for: not just growing it, making it less male-centric by making it more welcoming to other genders.
<ahoneybun> not great but they are there
<popey> We had tremendous difficulty getting people to join hangouts because they don't want to be seen, don't have the right hardware or are travelling/working
<popey> Just my 2p based on past experience.
<wxl> i suspect that is, in part, due to it being a google product
<flexiondotorg> popey: Thanks for the insight.
<wxl> *ahem* matrix *ahem*
<popey> No, that wasn't the issue, but okay.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: What thoughts did you have of using the Community Hub?
<ahoneybun> yea google was the issue with some
<ahoneybun> maybe look at BigBlueButton?
<elopio> flexiondotorg: I love it!
<flexiondotorg> Yeah, there is a reason Discourse has become the go to community building tool.
<elopio> I hate google hangouts because they are google. However, I live in a place with terrible bandwith, and it's the only thing that really works here. No bbb, no talky, no jitsi, we tried everything.
<elacheche> ahoneybun: We have rocket.ubuntu.com.. Why looking for BBB?
<elacheche> x)
<flexiondotorg> What do you guys think about moving Community Council "docs" off the Ubuntu Wiki to the Community Hub?
<ahoneybun> rocket does video?
<elopio> flexiondotorg: +1
<wxl> yes, ahoneybun
<elopio> ahoneybun: it uses jitsi for video.
<flexiondotorg> Perhaps we should take an action to review available voice/video chat services?
<wxl> i think we should do regular talks on how to get involved with ubuntu
<flexiondotorg> Discus again in the next meeting?
<popey> +1
<flexiondotorg> wxl Agree.
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: this will kill the wiki more and more, LoCo already having issues keeping they're wiki updated, people will ask why CC is using the HUB and we (locos) are forced to use Wiki!
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Perhaps the Community Hub is a better place for LoCos too.
<elacheche> wxl: I'm planning to prepare a talk about that for the next SFD x)
<flexiondotorg> SFD?
<elacheche> Software Freedom Day
<flexiondotorg> ty
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: Why not, we shold get the LC involved in this..
<elopio> elacheche: why is the loco forced to use the wiki? aren't they free to use what they like?
<flexiondotorg> Yes, we should work with the LC on this.
 * wxl puts on his LC hat :)
<popey> Nice hat!
<elacheche> elopio: Locos should report to the wiki
<flexiondotorg> So wxl, is there push back about the LoCos using the Wiki?
<wxl> there's push back in general about doing anything XD
<wxl> seriously what i mean is that some people insist on ONLY doing facebook
<elopio> :)
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Is it more a case of having LoCo report activities and events, rather than where they report that?
<flexiondotorg> wxl So each LoCo has their own Facebook groups?
<wxl> some do, some don't
<flexiondotorg> Right.
<flexiondotorg> The Hub is intended to be a portal to the community.
<flexiondotorg> So having Facebook etc is fine.
<wxl> and there are some that will ONLY use facebook
<flexiondotorg> But using the Hub so the is one place for users to start their community discovery is valuable.
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: The Ubuntu Tunisia FB group & page did not bring any active contributors to the community.. All engaged contributors are comming from events and staying in the ML and IRC..
<wxl> so we should have links to the LCs and membership and etc.
<wxl> and it should be easy to find
<elopio> I think it's fine, they should use whatever works for them. But I would suggest them to try the hub. I think most of them will like it.
<flexiondotorg> And, LoCo certainly need Facebook and all the rest.
<flexiondotorg> Using Ubuntu MATE as an exmaple, we have Discourse. But we are active on Facebook, Twitter, G+, Mastadon etc.
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to use the Hub to prepare agendas for future CC meetings.
<flexiondotorg> We can collaborate there and also solicite involvement from the wider community.
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: based on my experience, FB did not helped in gaining active & engaged contributors..
<flexiondotorg> Something we can't do on the wiki because spamming means only members can contribute to the wiki.
<elacheche> It can be just the situation in my loco.. Can't talk for others :/
<elopio> we have another opportunity to improve things with the upcoming loco election :)
<elopio> lots of new beginnings these days, I'm happy to be part of this.
<flexiondotorg> So the wiki is exclusive.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Indeed :-)
<elacheche> It'll be great to re-plan how LoCos are running with the new LC :)
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Also agree about Facebook. The least useful community reasource for Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> Any of you standing for the LC?
<elacheche> The most engaged community is what we have on the ML + IRC and events..
<wxl> the thing that i have experienced is that some communities (these are usually not in the English speaking world) seem to find Facebook the best way to community build
<wxl> i don't LIKE facebook, but i understand their point
<wxl> i think it's hard for us to dictate the tools a community must use when we don't really know what their situation is like
<flexiondotorg> Agree.
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: It think it will be bad to be in CC, UMB and applying for the LC.. wxl is a special case as he already was part of the LC :p
<wxl> that's why LCs are so valuable. they understand what the local community is
<wxl> i'd honestly like to leave the LC. my hope is enough people step up.
<flexiondotorg> My understanding the intended role of LC is to help LoCo's grow and "do cool stuff".
<wxl> yeah
<wxl> kind of
<wxl> in reality, the work is more administrative
<elacheche> wxl: You're not moving until there is enough people in there dude x)
<flexiondotorg> Yeah, I hear it has become that. But that wasn't the intention.
<wxl> this is why we as the CC are apparently tasked with recreating the vision for the LC :(
<ahoneybun> damn this meeting is long already lol
<wxl> i mean the way it's set up, both the LC and the UMB have no real decision making power in terms of new directions
<elopio> so, I propose that as a first task related to LC, we encourage people to propose for the election
<wxl> YES @elopio !!!!
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Yes!
<elopio> once they are elected, work with them on defining communication channels and tasks
<elacheche> Yes!
<wxl> i mean this is the second call
<elacheche> elopio: s/people/Ubuntu Memebers/
<wxl> that's not good
<wxl> i know there's a degree of distrust or dismay surrounding LoCos in general, too. there was a time where it seemed the LC was an impediment to the groth of LoCos (before my time). that's a problem we need to solve
<wxl> we need to "advertise" the purpose of the LCs and what their value is and i think most importantly provide examples of good work done
<elopio> let's talk with the members we know. Let's convince them that anything that they hate about locos now can be changed during the next two years, and that we need them in the council to help.
<wxl> yeah i think that's a great idea
<flexiondotorg> Agree.
<elacheche> +1
<flexiondotorg> I'm taking some basic notes here.
<elopio> ok. next topic? Everybody have already proposed their topics for today?
<ahoneybun> the main issue I see is when LoCo's only have one member in charge of everything
<flexiondotorg> Which leads me to realisation we need to share actions etc from todays meeting.
<flexiondotorg> So how do we want to share our discussions with each other and the community?
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to bootstrap using the Community Hub. Thoughts?
<wxl> by as many ways as possible
<elopio> flexiondotorg: I think it would be good for the next meeting to make a call for topics, maybe on monday, on the hub.
<elacheche> With each others, the ML, with the community â ML, twitter, fb, irc, etc..
<wxl> i think the reality is that everyone seems to connect in a different way
<flexiondotorg> elopio: I was thinking exactly that.
<elopio> and after the meeting, paste the log and a summary in the hub. I can translate it to spanish :)
<ahoneybun> I think posts on the community hub and blogs on planet would be good
<wxl> it should be on the hub, it should go to every community mailing list there is, it should be in the news, it should go on all social media
<flexiondotorg> We should have "once version of the truth". And link to that via the ML and social networks IMO.
<elopio> ahoneybun: I have been thinking that to reset things, it would be good to join locos in wider regions. Like one for central and south america. And when they grow, split them again.
<flexiondotorg> Have the discussion happen in a place anyone can participate easily.
<wxl> maybe even working to get news outlets to pick it up might be good. this is a new vision we're forming and i think it's important to make it clear to EVERYONE that they're invited to participate
<ahoneybun> yea joining is always good for larger areas
<elopio> popey: do you have a plan for multilanguage in the hub?
<wxl> or maybe not even that they're invited. that we need them!!!
<flexiondotorg> wxl I agree with trying to raise the profile of this effort in news sites etc.
<elopio> wxl: I like that! Let's make more noise.
<wxl> does anyone have good connections out there?
<flexiondotorg> Me
<wxl> then you have an action item :)
<flexiondotorg> Just noted it :-)
<elopio> Martin is friends with everybody. Literally, every single person.
<flexiondotorg> Well, not quite everyone.
<flexiondotorg> Next year maybe ;-)
<flexiondotorg> What social accounts should we be using to spread the word?
<popey> No plans for multi language yet, but could certainly have separate categories for loco or language specific things.
<wxl> twitter, facebook, g+
<popey> That would be awesome
<wxl> i don't know what else we have
<wxl> mastodon?
<wxl> who's in charge of those things anyways?
<popey> MySpace?
<flexiondotorg> wxl You mean the Ubuntu social accounts right?
<wxl> flexiondotorg: yes
<flexiondotorg> popey: Back in your box! ;-)
<flexiondotorg> OK
<flexiondotorg> wxl: I can ge the message out via those.
<ahoneybun> mastondon?
<ahoneybun> what about that too lol
<wxl> let's also work with other flavors and key people to make sure they spread the message too
<flexiondotorg> We did ask about this for something else.
<flexiondotorg> wxl: Good point.
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun: Mastadon is not what it was. Unless you speak Japanses.
<wxl> what about putting something on the download page? too dramatic?
<elopio> hey, what about inviting flavors to the next meeting? It would be good to hear what they need.
<wxl> flexiondotorg: you're referring to the global feed, of course
<ahoneybun> well you have Lubuntu and Kubuntu here lol
<wxl> and MATE!
<flexiondotorg> elopio: That was something I wanted to discuss.
<flexiondotorg> I was invited to a CC meeting ages ago for Ubuntu MATE.
<wxl> i believe that's also one of the cards we have to deal with
<flexiondotorg> I think we should reach out to the flavours.
<flexiondotorg> But I also think we should have a scope for meeting with them.
<flexiondotorg> What do we want to know. What value are we going to add?
<wxl> yeah in the past they've been just simple check ins
<elopio> maybe not next week then. We still need to figure out too many random topics.
<flexiondotorg> I feel that is "busy work".
<wxl> yup
<flexiondotorg> I think we can hold off catching up with falvour for the future.
<elopio> sounds good.
<flexiondotorg> When we've figured out what the value of those meetins would be.
<ahoneybun> +1
<wxl> agreed
<flexiondotorg> Is anyone objected to using the Ubuntu Community Hub to organise our activities and report on our meetings?
<wxl> no
<flexiondotorg> Because I am motivated to move our focus there. Not least because we can track social engagement there.
<flexiondotorg> Having used Discourse in Ubuntu MATE for years I see a whole lot of potential in the Community Hub.
<flexiondotorg> And I also feel we should be leading from the front.
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun: elacheche You thoughts on that?
<elopio> no objection, big +100
<flexiondotorg> As we only have a few mins, one last topic.
<flexiondotorg> Repeating Calendar invite to this meeting?
<elopio> this time and day works for me.
<flexiondotorg> Good.
<ahoneybun> +1 flexiondotorg  I've not looked at the hub yet but it looks nice
<ahoneybun> same here
<flexiondotorg> OK.
<wxl> i forgot what i wanted to ask XD so i guess i'm good for now
<flexiondotorg> So I will talk to popey and find out how we can make a new home for the CC on the Community Hub.
<flexiondotorg> wxl Go!
<flexiondotorg> :-)
<wxl> but yeah this time is good
<flexiondotorg> Can all CC members sign up on the Community Hub please.
<wxl> yeah i'll get that done today
<flexiondotorg> Cheers.
<wxl> it's been sitting in my browser to remind me to play with it anyways
<elopio> so, before you leave, we have two events that will be great to diversify our community: hacktoberfest and google code-in. We are organizing that in the hub, so just give it a look and help in any way you can.
<flexiondotorg> We can use it to tag one another.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Good point!
<elopio> thanks everybody. I can collect the log and paste it in the hub.
<elopio> who wants to make a summary?
<flexiondotorg> I will write up a summary.
<ahoneybun> I'm on the Hub
<elopio> <3
<flexiondotorg> I'll post it on the Hub and share via the MLs and socials.
<flexiondotorg> Once we have a suitable category on the Hub.
<elopio> oh, the bot collects the log, right?
<elopio> I will just translate it.
<flexiondotorg> Yep. I'll stop the bot in a sec.
<flexiondotorg> Any last questions?
<ahoneybun> that's it for me
<flexiondotorg> 5...
<flexiondotorg> 4...
<flexiondotorg> 3...
<flexiondotorg> 2...
<flexiondotorg> 1...
<flexiondotorg> OK, all done. See you on the COmmuntiy Hub :-)
<elopio> ð
<flexiondotorg> #stopmeeting
<wxl> thanks everyone
<ahoneybun> thanks folks!
<flexiondotorg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  5 18:04:32 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-05-17.01.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-01
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  1 16:32:11 2018 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> First off, I'd like to warmly welcome joemcmanus to the team as our new security team manager. Glad to have you Joe! :)
<sbeattie> welcome, joemcmanus!
<jdstrand> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows:
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> CVE Triage: msalvatore (ebarretto), Bug Triage: sarnold, Community: sbeattie, Happy Place: amurray, mdeslaur, leosilva, ebarretto
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> oh, I forgot one announcement
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring!
<jdstrand> Ubuntu Security engineer: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1158266?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> ok, I'll go first for standup
<jdstrand> This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> * continue brand store snap declarations
<jdstrand> * continue kubernetes-support interfaces
<jdstrand> * various snapd PR reviews
<jdstrand> * iterate on docker PRs
<jdstrand> * embargoed issue
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just finished publishing a whole new ghostscript version to the stable releases to fix a bunch of security issues that don't have CVE numbers
<mdeslaur> hopefully it won't cause any major regressions
<mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue to publish later on once upstream makes the issue public
<mdeslaur> and I'll be continuing more CVE work after that
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: do you think it warrants a call for testing?
<mdeslaur> what, ghostscript?
<sarnold> it's already out the door :)
<mdeslaur> I already published it
<mdeslaur> I tested the heck out of it
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: yes, and, ok :)
<mdeslaur> and judging by the number of open bugs against the old version, this one can only be better
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: it was the 'hopefully' that threw me:)
<mdeslaur> I will keep a look out for regression bugs
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks for taking that on. ghostscript can be challenging
<jdstrand> sorry sbeattie, go ahead :)
<sbeattie> kernel updates are being published now, will start the USNs for them after the meeting.
<sbeattie> I have imagemagick packages in the ubuntu-security-proposed ppa that disable pdf/ps support, to avoid ghostscript (for all the reasons above) that I'll be testing and publishing.
<mdeslaur> \o/
<sbeattie> After that, I need to spend some time looking at possible addiitonal toolchain hardening for cosmic+1.
<sbeattie> That will probably take up my week.
<sbeattie> jjohansen: over to you.
<jjohansen> Its a short week for me, I am off Wednesday, Thursday, and maybe Friday.
<jjohansen> I am still trying to finish up last weeks items, apparmor items for the 4.20 pull request: mjg secmark patch, kernel_t label for kernel network tasks, and the nonewprivs work.  LSM stacking patches, and the 2.10.4, 2.11.2, 2.12.1, 2.13.1 stable releases for apparmor
<jjohansen> thats it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I'm going to finish the xdg-desktop-portal-gtk MIR 1750069 this week, hopefully by tomorrow; then I'll run down the list of MIRs in trello. I'll do apparmor patch reviews as needed.
<sarnold> that's it for me.. leosilva?
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week
<leosilva> I pushed a USN for bind9 for precise
<leosilva> I spent some time in a glib2.0 regression, but it eends as a no sec regression
<leosilva> I'll do the hunting pkg and find something to update - right now I'm digging on liblouis
<leosilva> that is it for me
<mdeslaur> libleo
<leosilva> msalvatore: I think it's up to you now
<leosilva> hehe.
<msalvatore> Hi all. I'm on CVE triage this week, but It's a super short week for me (I'm out oct2-oct12)
<msalvatore> ebarretto will fill in for CVE triage
<msalvatore> I published fixes for uwsgi this morning
<msalvatore> I'm focusing on CVE triage and re-triage of older CVEs for today.
<msalvatore> ebarretto: you're up
<ebarretto> I'm in the happy place/cve triage this week:
<ebarretto> - Released today new opencv update for bionic
<ebarretto> - Also released a new version of monit for xenial because of a regression in the last update (LP: #Bug:1786910)
<ebarretto> - I am working on updating libav for trusty, right now I am testing the security fixes that were backported
<ebarretto> - I will be doing CVE triage starting tomorrow to cover msalvatore
<ebarretto> - If anyone finds any problem in uwsgi update from msalvatore, feel free to ping me and add me to bugs
<ebarretto> that's it for me ... joemcmanus you're up
<ebarretto> jdstrand, did we skip chrisccoulson ?
<chrisccoulson> yep ;)
<chrisccoulson> shall I go now?
<jdstrand> ebarretto: he was skipped. I thought it was me now knowing who was out :)
<mdeslaur> man, we keep forgetting chrisccoulson
<mdeslaur> he's too quiet
<chrisccoulson> lol
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yes please :)
<jdstrand> hey, I can't prove it, but I was thinking about it :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<ebarretto> hehe
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting a firefox release to test and publish this week, although the release hasn't happened yet
<chrisccoulson> I've got an embargoed update too
<chrisccoulson> and I'll be working on the libssh2 MIR
<chrisccoulson> that shouldn't take all week, so I'll have time for something else (something else on the review queue?)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I think so, yes, we getting to the end :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<jdstrand> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson (see, I didn't forget!), leosilva, msalvatore, ebarretto, joemcmanus: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  1 16:54:40 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-01-16.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<ebarretto> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<leosilva> tks jdstrand !
<chrisccoulson> :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-04
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> I'll chair, we might not have a vorlon
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 15:04:51 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank platonical tobikoch aleks_bogdanov)
<cyphermox> tdaitx mwhudson xnox rcj platonical philroche infinity slangasek Odd_Bloke cyphermox rbalint sil2100 bdmurray fginther juliank doko aleks_bogdanov tobikoch
<sil2100> tdaitx: o/
<xnox> * openssl 1.1.1 migrated, lots of TLS1.3 fun
<xnox> * s390-tools zkey fun
<xnox> * friendly-recovery fun, better but still fails to resume
<xnox> * systemd sru prep fun (including errors regressions fun)
<xnox> * done
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud image build maintenance
<rcj> * bzr -> git migration of image build tooling
<rcj> * fixes related to seeding lxd in cloud-images
<rcj> (done)
<platonical> work on partner images.
<platonical> done.
<cyphermox> Odd_Bloke:
<cyphermox> (skipping a whole lot of people we know are absent)
<cyphermox> - discussed ModemManager plans w/ desktop re: new hardware support
<cyphermox> - merged/uploaded vorlon's grub-check-signatures fix (bug LP: #1788727)
<cyphermox> - tracking down testing for grub reloc SRU (bug LP: #1792575)
<cyphermox>   - unreproducible on VMs, it turns out. Seems hardware-specific.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788727 in grub2 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "upgrade crashing due to unsigned kernels" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792575 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "Boot failure with efi shims from 20180913.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792575
<cyphermox> - grub-ieee1275 debugging - ioctls on grub-update (bug LP: #1792948)
<cyphermox> - debugging ppc64el fdisk weirdness with multipath (bug LP: #1784347)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792948 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "Failed to install grub-ieee1275 from Trusty release-pocket on a Power8 system" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792948
<cyphermox> - plymouth fix for ply_device_manager_deactivate_renderers() crash (bug LP: #1794292)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1784347 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "ISST-LTE: KVM:UBUNTU1804: BostonLC: fdisk -l shows the conflicting partitions name for the mpath" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794292 in plymouth (Ubuntu Cosmic) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in /sbin/plymouthd:11 in ply_renderer_set_handler_for_input_source -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_renderer_input -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_input -> ply_device_manager_deactivate_keyboards -> on_deactivate" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794292
<cyphermox> - netplan fixing a small regression in 0.40 (empty files make crashy crashy)
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> I guess now it's me
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Lots of kernel SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Switching some of our KPI graphs to use influxdb instead of prometheus
<sil2100> - Coordinate things regarding core16 stable re-spin for pi3
<sil2100> - Queue reviews
<sil2100> - Adding -signed-gcp to the kernel packageset
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * Fix pi3 gadget snap uploads to the store
<sil2100>   * Prepare merges for livecd-rootfs and cdimage to enable core18 daily images
<sil2100>   * Ran a test build of core16 using xenial builders
<sil2100>   * Working on scripts for custom build triggers of core18 snaps
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Fixing breakage caused by new pycodestyle
<sil2100>   * Working-around issues caused by backward-incompatible voluptuous changes in cosmic
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> further work on time to retrace a crash taking longer
<bdmurray> updated apport for the Launchpad crash retracer
<bdmurray> updated Launchpad retracer to use bionic chroot to fix issues with StacktraceSource
<bdmurray> sorted issue w/ ubuntu-archive user and bionic-amd64 chroot on osageorange
<bdmurray> had apport updated in the production error tracker (using best -dbg syms)
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding removing corrupt core files from swift
<bdmurray> discovered issue with apport and -dbg packages being dropped in -updates / -security
<bdmurray> worked on the above issue and LP: #1370230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1370230 in Apport "apport-retrace has become slower" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370230
<bdmurray> searched for duplicates of bug 1317164 / updating bug attachment scripts
<bdmurray> worked on export of foundations_errors KPI from prometheus
<bdmurray> modified prometheus2csv.py to handle changing quantities of labels
<bdmurray> modified csv2influx script to handle foundations-bugs data format
<bdmurray> imported prometheus data of foundations_errors into production influxdb
<ubottu> bug 1317164 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Show reason of TransactionFailed and let the user try again instead of crashing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317164
<bdmurray> resume / take home test reviews
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> fginther:
<fginther> * Image updates for partner requests
<fginther> * Responding to other partner requests for image clean up and publication of a one-off preview image
<fginther> * Developed and tested some prototype image publication code for a partner cloud
<fginther> * Completed spec update from review comments for image publication to a partner cloud
<fginther> * Image testing for LP: #1792466
<fginther> * SRU testing for LP: #1792905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792466 in gce-compute-image-packages (Ubuntu Bionic) " Update google compute-image-packages to 20180905" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792905 in cloud-images "[2.5] iSCSI systemd services fails and blocks for 1 min 30 seconds" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792905
<fginther> â done
<fginther> juliank:
<juliank> â¢ write SRU bugs and upload frontend locking SRUs for apt (bug 1781169), dpkg (1796081), python-apt (bug 1795407), packagekit (bug 1795614)
<ubottu> bug 1781169 in apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "apt frontend locking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781169
<juliank> â¢ networkd-dispatcher bug triage
<ubottu> bug 1795407 in python-apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "python-apt frontend locking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795407
<juliank> â¢ holiday yesterday
<ubottu> bug 1795614 in packagekit (Ubuntu Bionic) "packagekit frontend locking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795614
<juliank> (done)
<doko> - short week (two swapdays, one bank holiday)
<doko> - archive admin work, one MIR reviewed
<doko> - updated gcc-snapshot
<doko> - synced a few packages with GCC 8 FTBFS
<doko> - sponsored some java related uploads, bumped OpenJDK to 11
<doko> - gave back the ftbfs for the test rebuild, now trying to summarize the builds which failed during the first build and succeeded in the second try
<doko> - gave back gcc-8-cross-ports for the n-th time since Sep 21 ...
<doko> - will be back on Oct 15, one more swap day and a week of vacation
<doko> (done)
<tobikoch> * parallelization of image builds in sets (ongoing)
<tobikoch> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Dealing with image build/testing fallout from lxd becoming a snap
<Odd_Bloke> * Out tomorrow/Monday for Thaunksgiving
<Odd_Bloke> * Miscellaneous partner work
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<cyphermox> rbalint_: you ready?
<cyphermox> alright, let's say he's no available
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<cyphermox> oops
<cyphermox> that should be bb
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> cc.
<cyphermox> (and I need to update my script)
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1783996 is critical - what is the status of the sil2100 ?
<cyphermox> bdmurray: is that good?
<ubottu> bug 1783996 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[efi on top of legacy] Show a warning that installation will fail if user doesn't create an ESP partition or fallback to grub-pc" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783996
<cyphermox> wouldn't that be partman's job rather than grub-installer? otherwise we'll warn near the end of the installation instead of around the beginning
<sil2100> bdmurray: that is not yet started
<doko> ftbfs issues: http://people.canonical.com/~doko/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20180911-cosmic.html
<sil2100> bdmurray: but it's not that high priority I think
<sil2100> bdmurray: I wanted to take care of it but core18 is a bit more high-priority right now IIRC
<bdmurray> sil2100: Okay, so High then?
<cyphermox> fwiw, I've been asked to look at slideshow, I'll do that today
<sil2100> bdmurray: yeah
<sil2100> bdmurray: we shipped bionic with this and it's still better than what was earlier in my opinion
<bdmurray> cyphermox: and you were are working on bug 1788727 too?
<ubottu> bug 1788727 in grub2 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "upgrade crashing due to unsigned kernels" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788727
<cyphermox> yup, package in cosmic queue
<cyphermox> (or about to be)
<cyphermox> it is
 * tribaal says hi to everyone
<fginther> hey tribaal
<tribaal> hi fginther
<cyphermox> ^ sil2100, if you want to have a look at it. previous upload had been rejected by vorlon, I fixed the issue
<cyphermox> tribaal: hey.
<tribaal> cyphermox: heya!
<cyphermox> bdmurray: other bugs to discuss?
<bdmurray> Is the klibc task in bug 1760106 still necessarY/
<ubottu> bug 1760106 in klibc (Ubuntu Cosmic) "FFe: Enable configuring resume offset via sysfs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760106
<bdmurray> xnox: ^?
<sil2100> cyphermox: I can check in a moment
<xnox> bdmurray, oh shit, yes.
<bdmurray> I'm not sure how to interpret the "shit" there
<xnox> bdmurray, i think i need to upload this.
<bdmurray> xnox: okay, should we card it and move it onto the main board?
<xnox> bdmurray, yes.
<tdaitx> sorry, spotty wifi connection, should be better now
<cyphermox> so, aside from that, we have doko saying earlier : plz fix ftbfses, kthxbai
<bdmurray> what happened with bug 1793671?
<ubottu> bug 1793671 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Proprietary drivers are installed locally and not on the target system" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1793671
<cyphermox> did we not assign it to someone (not me) to look into?
<bdmurray> I seem to recall infinity was going to look at it
<bdmurray> I'll check with him later
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> otherwise I'll try to have a look
<tdaitx> should I send my status here or by email?
<bdmurray> That's it from me.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> all the crashy crashy need worky worky
<cyphermox> tribaal: did you have anything to share?
<cyphermox> going once
<cyphermox> going twice
<cyphermox> gone.
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  4 15:37:16 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-04-15.04.moin.txt
<tribaal> cyphermox: sorry, "no" :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-01
<cyphermox> didrocks: doko: MIR team meeting?
<cyphermox> jdstrand: ^
<doko> yep
<cyphermox> anything to discuss?
<doko> there are some MIRs which are not yet filed ...
<doko> maybe I open template reports for those ...
<cyphermox> ok
<doko> hmm, #1828887
<doko> no cpaelzer
<doko> LP: #1667150 needs addressing, it's a dependency now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667150 in twitter-bootstrap3 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] twitter-bootstrap3" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667150
<cyphermox> yay
<doko> updated the bug report
<cyphermox> yup
<doko> and libheif is still waiting for the security review. LP: #1827442
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827442 in x265 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libheif" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827442
<doko> hmm, what about linux-oem-osp1 ? that should be kernel maintained?
<didrocks> sorry, was in a HO, I have nothing special
<doko> didrocks: please file MIRs for libcairo-gobject-perl, or forward to desktop
<cyphermox> doko: it starts with 'linux*', pretty sure that means kernel maintained :)
<doko> apw, sforshee: ^^^
<didrocks> will do in our team meeting
<doko> anything else, which is not on component mismatches?
<cyphermox> nfs-ganesha bug
<cyphermox> I can review that
<doko> ok, EOM?
<doko> cyphermox, didrocks: ^^^
<didrocks> +1
<cyphermox> yup
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-03
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> xnox: Were you going to run the meeting as doko is out?
<xnox> i nominate bdmurray
<bdmurray> okay here we go
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  3 15:05:44 2019 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> xnox doko mwhudson cyphermox bdmurray tdaitx waveform vorlon juliank infinity rbalint sil2100
<bdmurray> xnox: your turn
<xnox> skip
<bdmurray> doko is out for a national holiday
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - off tomorrow, Mon, Tue, Wed next week
<cyphermox> - netplan read-write plugin for NetworkManager
<cyphermox> - verified netplan.io, nplan SRUs
<cyphermox> - debugging DNS resolution issue (search domains not showing from DHCP) (LP: #1846509)
<cyphermox> - continued work on shim snapshot: one more patch from Chris, now ready to submit to the review board
<cyphermox> - did one last round of fixing grub2 to install UEFI boot artefacts correctly to the ESP
<cyphermox> - ubiquity translation update, will do ubiquity slideshow translation update today
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846509 in systemd (Ubuntu) "networkd doesn't take into account search domain received by DHCP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1846509
<cyphermox> rbalint: this one is for you I think ^
<bdmurray> I did managerial things
<cyphermox> it's easily reproducible
<bdmurray> Also the testing of the daisy code w/o python-pycassa went well
 * xnox is ready
<bdmurray> So I submitted an RT about update the daisy servers in production
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> IBM s390x escalations:
<xnox> * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1846219
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846219 in linux (Ubuntu) "Revert ESE DASD discard support" [Critical,Incomplete]
<xnox> * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1845323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845323 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "Trying to online dasd drive results in invalid input/output from the kernel on z/VM" [Critical,In progress]
<xnox> - prepared & submitted patch+sru-bug to kernel team
<xnox> Casper:
<xnox> * url=proto://*/path/to.iso ip=dhcp is now supported netboot option
<xnox>   works with http & ftp across many architectus (amd64, ppc64le, s390x)
<rbalint> cyphermox, will follow up
<xnox> * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1840122
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840122 in linux (Ubuntu Eoan) "System fails to reboot from live session or ubiquity-dm - squashfs_read_data failed to read block" [High,Confirmed]
<xnox> Subiquity:
<xnox> * code-reviews & merges
<xnox> * bootstrapped mwhudson to HMC to look at colors & lines
<xnox> done
<xnox> above two linux bugs, caused us to not have s390x beta
<tdaitx> * working on apport lock file fix
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 autopkgtest mostly done
<tdaitx>   - s390x zero fix still missing
<tdaitx> * moving and testing autopkgtest fixes to openjdk-11
<tdaitx> * getting jck installed on jenkins
<tdaitx> (done)
<xnox> rbalint:  also we should have had uploaded DVE fix..... which i thought we are not uploading, but looks like we are.
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Discussed potential Core20 snapd changes (to support u-boot scripts, and potentially Pi4) with Zygmunt on the snapd team
<waveform> * Reviewed nitrogen 6 gadget (MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~fisterra-team/fisterra/+git/nitrogen6x-gadget/+merge/371450)
<waveform> * Filed FFe for u-boot 2019.07 for Pi4 support (LP: #1846329)
<waveform> * Prepped updated firmware package for Pi4 support
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846329 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[FFe] 2019.07 to support Pi4 boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1846329
<waveform> * Cert team discovered new u-boot breaks on CM3/3+ - currently investigating (may be dt-related)
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<bdmurray> waveform: has that FFe been reviewed / approved?
<vorlon>  * discussions around ZFS in ubiquity
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration
<vorlon>  * NBS for the badly-managed texlive transitions
<vorlon>  * unapproved queue reviews for eoan
<vorlon>  * livecd-rootfs tweaks for i386 to accomodate removal of linux kernel packages
<vorlon> (done)
<waveform> bdmurray, not yet
<bdmurray> juliank should be out for the holiday
<bdmurray> infinity isn't here
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<bdmurray> is there somebody who can review that FFe?
<rbalint> (very short week)
<rbalint> * systemd SRU with reintroducing several lost fixes
<rbalint> * updated systemd to 242 in eoan and pushing in one last round of fixes now
<sil2100> I could, in theory
<rbalint> * wrote SRU exception proposal https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wslu-Updates
<rbalint> * some bug gardening
<rbalint> (done)
<sil2100> - Back from being sick, feeling a bit better now
<sil2100> - Eoan queue reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel reviews
<sil2100> - Code reviews of ubuntu-image PRs for little-kernel support
<bdmurray> sil2100: "in theory"?
<sil2100> - Reviewing Dave's classic pi-gadget improvements, investigating flash-kernel
<sil2100> - Reviewing Dimitri's core20 tweaks to ld symlinking
<sil2100> - Finalize the UC20 ubuntu-image changes spec
<sil2100> - Implement ubuntu-image UC20 changes
<sil2100>   * Base pieces done but still working on tests. Also, this might need a few iterations.
<sil2100> - Meetings regarding device enablement and image building
<sil2100> - Looking at the license of the IMX6-required GPU binary firmware blobs
<sil2100> - Kicking around Bileto to fix expired tokens
<sil2100> - Refactoring and fixing tests for latest ubuntu-release-upgrader changes, uploading to eoan
<sil2100> - Touching base with Gunnar regarding state of translations for the upcoming release
<sil2100> - Starting the review of the IMX6 gadget
<sil2100> - Phasing out new core18 to stable
<sil2100> (done)
 * xnox has AOB item
<bdmurray> Are there any questions on status other than mine re: the FFe
<bdmurray> xnox: we aren't there yet!
<sil2100> bdmurray: ok, in practice as well! I said 'in theory', since we're from the same team and not sure if anyone wouldn't object for me to review the FFe
<sil2100> Since it's quite obvious I'd be +1 on it ;p
<bdmurray> sil2100: I expect your review to be harder(?) since you *are* from the same team
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<sil2100> bdmurray: yessir!
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> sil2100: but maybe we should give it until Friday
<bdmurray> bug 1838525 is being worked by the server team
<ubottu> bug 1838525 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "LVM setup fails to install grub on virtio storage" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838525
<bdmurray> bug 1779767 I'm not convinced is really fixed in Eoan - xnox
<ubottu> bug 1779767 in cron (Ubuntu) "Default cron PATH does not include /snap/bin" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779767
<xnox> i see comments from him
<xnox> juliank:  something about udev rules we started shipping =)
<bdmurray> bug 1834501 is about "air gapped" release upgrades so I think we can punt that to Funky. agreed?
<ubottu> bug 1834501 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Eoan) "do-release-upgrade from bionic->any disables lxd without snapstore access" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834501
<bdmurray> vorlon: ^
<vorlon> bdmurray: agreed
<bdmurray> bug 1845571 is new
<ubottu> bug 1845571 in partman-auto (Ubuntu) "ubiquity offers installation media as an install target" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845571
<sil2100> Feels like it at least
<bdmurray> the reporter of bug 1845571 seems trust worthy
<vorlon> pulling this into the prioritized queue
<bdmurray> thanks
<bdmurray> I also wanted to talk about a bug targetted to Eoan
<bdmurray> a bug or two ;-)
<bdmurray> bug 1844651
<ubottu> bug 1844651 in command-not-found (Ubuntu Eoan) "command-not-found-data package is unnecessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1844651
<bdmurray> This was discovered when looking at the mlocate changes
<bdmurray> the c-n-f-data package is out of date so will still tell you about locate from two different packages
<bdmurray> even though I blacklisted it from one of them
<juliank> With my Debian c-n-f maintainer hat on I can say that there are a few bugs if the database does not exist yes, but they'll need fixing anyway.
<bdmurray> Does dropping c-n-f-data before the release of 19.10 seem possible?
<vorlon> I think so
<xnox> Yeah +1
<bdmurray> juliank: Like producing an error re "commands.db does not exist"?
<juliank> bdmurray: Yeah. like "run apt update to ... the database"
<juliank> ... because I'm missing a word
<juliank> At leasttthe bionic version just crashes with cnf unbound: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=927338
<ubottu> Debian bug 927338 in command-not-found "command-not-found: local variable 'cnf' referenced before assignment" [Important,Open]
<bdmurray> So we've decided this is worth fixing is there somebody who can take the card associated with this?
<bdmurray> Maybe somebody familiar with c-n-f?
 * bdmurray eyes the team
<juliank> if it's just the error message, I'll take it as I have to fix Debian anyway
<juliank> if we want to build a db in live images, it's probably more work
<bdmurray> juliank: the error message and dropping the c-n-f-data package
<bdmurray> juliank: we suspect the live db is already built and I'll test that
<juliank> Sounds good
<bdmurray> I just want to clarify my understanding of bug 1841675
<ubottu> bug 1841675 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Eoan) "do-release-upgrade crashed with AttributeError in tryMarkObsoleteForRemoval(): 'Package' object has no attribute 'section'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841675
<juliank> Package.section is gone, because section is version specific
<juliank> So likely you need .candidate.version, with the caveat that .candidate might not exist if all versions are pinned negatively
<bdmurray> From what I've seen this only affects do-partial-upgrade
<juliank> pkg.marked_delete and pkg.section == section
<juliank> hmm might e useful to pkg.marked_delete and pkg.installed.section == section
<juliank> but not 100% sure which section it's supposed to look at
<bdmurray> So if it only affects do-partial-upgrade I think we can fix it as a zero day SRU
<bdmurray> But it'd be good to have someone check and see if it will affect release upgrades to eoan
<bdmurray> Actually it can't b/c we'll be using the previous release's apt right?
<juliank> just add .candidate after the pkg and it'll be fine
<bdmurray> there are two sections where it Tracebacks
<juliank> yes, i see two pkg.section which both can be pkg.candidate.section
<bdmurray> juliank: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/443001015/Traceback.txt
<juliank> maybe instead of self[pkgname].section == section
<juliank> do any(v.section == section for v in self[pkgname].version_list)
<bdmurray> My real question here is do we need to fix it before 10/17
<bdmurray> juliank: Do you have an opinion on that?
<juliank> it seems to affect everything that has removals marked for packages that still exist in the archive
<bdmurray> Well it seems rather easy to fix so maybe we should just JFDI
<bdmurray> better safe than sorry
<juliank> Well, you want to fix it before enabling upgrade prompts in any case
<sil2100> +1
<sil2100> I could take it
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> Does somebody want to drive this part of the discussion?
<sil2100> I could, but it's a quick thing
<bdmurray> good because we still have xnox's AOB
<rbalint> as i recall libapp-stacktrace-perl is waveform's
<sil2100> So for gdb - I think this is something that waveform tries to reproduce on a raspi?
<sil2100> waveform: ^ any luck?
<sil2100> libapp-stacktrace-perl/0.09-3build1: armhf
<waveform> correct - so far unsuccessfully
<waveform> was going to retry with another image last night but got side-tracked by the CM3 failure
<sil2100> waveform: would you want someone to help you out with this one?
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> Just advertise if you want more eyeballs looking at it
<waveform> will do - especially if it builds entirely successfully again!
<sil2100> libglib-perl - this is related to the MIRs we discussed on our standup yesterday
<bdmurray> that's true
<sil2100> bdmurray: do we know who's responsible for driving those?
<sil2100> (I mean, did a discussion happen re: that with the desktop team?)
<bdmurray> sil2100: I need to contact our colleagues
<bdmurray> sil2100: We didn't sync up yesterday
<sil2100> bdmurray: ok, moving on then o/ Just give us a poke if you know more
<rbalint> libglib-perl and imagemagick are blocked on MIRs
<rbalint> that's all
<sil2100> imagemagick libheif1 also is an MIR, security review I guess?
<rbalint> sil2100, yes
<bdmurray> I'm under the impression the security review may not get done
<rbalint> bdmurray, it is not expected to finish soon
<sil2100> Should we drop the dependency then? Is that possible?
<vorlon> why not just leave it as-is in -proposed?
<vorlon> is it blocking a different update?
<sil2100> Nothing that I know off at least
<sil2100> *of
<sil2100> Ok, let's leave it there for now then
<sil2100> Guess that's it
<sil2100> bdmurray: o/
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> xnox: ?
<xnox> so
<xnox> techboard has not been replying to me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-August/002456.html
<xnox> what can i do?
<xnox> cyphermox:  vorlon?
<bdmurray> do we know anybody on the tech board?
<vorlon> xnox: cyphermox is not on the techboard; send a follow-up email?
<sil2100> Did you try to bring that up on the techboard meeting?
<vorlon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<bdmurray> Any other AOB?
<sil2100> None from me
<bdmurray> Rather than handing off the chair, I think I will just continue chairing the meeting for a while.
<bdmurray> So I think that's it.
<bdmurray> Thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Thanks bdmurray o/
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  3 15:56:00 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-10-03-15.05.moin.txt
