#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-25
<kim0> Morning everyone o/
<TeTeT> hi kim0 , all prepared for the cloud days?
<kim0> TeTeT: Hey o/
<kim0> Yeah should be good
<kim0> TeTeT: did you get my email about moving ur session to Tues
<kim0> I hope that's ok
<TeTeT> kim0: yes, thought I even replied, fine for me
<kim0> TeTeT: oh great .. thanks
<kim0> I've got 1000 emails to read :)
<TeTeT> kim0: he he, I've dug through mine 150 that accumulated last week already
<TeTeT> I'm quite liberal with the del key though
<kim0> hehe :)
<kim0> TeTeT: where you off last week as well ?
<TeTeT> kim0: yes, one week of summer vacation. I transformed the other two weeks to four weeks with 50%
<kim0> nice!
<koolhead11> hi all
<kim0> koolhead11: howdy
<koolhead11> kim0, am good. wondering if i should make a slide
<kim0> koolhead11: hmm don't think so ..
<kim0> It's really all irc
<koolhead11> awesome
<kim0> I mean you could .. but most sessions don't
<kim0> koolhead11: does your irc nick keep changing between 11 and 17 ? :)
<koolhead11> kim0, i have a simple openstack setup and there i will launch an instance with cloud-init
<koolhead11> and show few examples what all happenes
<koolhead11> happens
<koolhead11> is that fine
<kim0> Well absolutely .. but how will you "show"
<kim0> koolhead11: You could launch an ec2 instance with that account you have, if that'd be helpful
<koolhead11> kim0, i mean is there a way i can share my screen :P
<kim0> koolhead11: the best way would be to configure a shared "screen" on some servers
<kim0> you work from there, and people login to view only
<kim0> there's some Ensemble formula that sets that up on ec2 .. but you could do it manually too (a few lines of screen config_
<koolhead11> kim0, i have another idea
<kim0> shoot
<koolhead11> umm. but i think it wont be good. besides ssh is  blocked 4 outside world from here :(
<kim0> koolhead11: I think the ssh server would need to be on ec2
<kim0> you could ssh to that, setting up a reverse ssh tunnel
<kim0> ssh -R 8888:10.1.2.3:1234
<kim0> that's it .. you can ssh back to your own machine
<kim0> and others can view it
<koolhead11> kim0, okey
<kim0> be sure to experiment with it however :)
<kim0> to make sure it all works
<koolhead11> let me do it
<koolhead11> kim0,
<kim0> koolhead11: hey
<kim0> replying to ur msgs
<koolhead11> cool
<koolhead17> kim0:
<kim0> here
<kim0> koolhead17: do you become 17 at home ?
<koolhead17> kim0: yeah :D
<kim0> ah I finally understand :)
<kim0> msg me
<neoXsys> Can anybody point me to ready to use Ubuntu 11.04 Server Image for Open Stack?
<kim0> Howdy folks, Ubuntu cloud days starting in #ubuntu-classroom on the hour .. see you there
<kim0> smoser RoAkSoAx .. Ready to rock n roll the world folks .. starting in 10 mins
<kim0> smoser: RoAkSoAx  .. Please play with classbot a bit .. this handles questions .. it goes like "/msg classbot !q" .. to see if there's any questions .. then "/msg classbot !y" to accept any question .. or !n to reject .. that's about it
<koolhead17> obino: ping
<obino> koolhead17: pong
<koolhead17> obino: wassup?
<obino> on the floor at OScon
<obino> connection may be flacky
<obino> how are you doing?
<koolhead17> am good.
<koolhead17> saw some tweet saying you guys got stall next/opposite to redhat :D
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-26
<koolhead11> hi all
<TeTeT> koolhead11: hi, sorry for being a pain, but how far did you get with ensemble on UEC meantime? Is it worth to try?
<koolhead11> TeTeT, indeed it is. i am still working on the formulas, no luck from my side. Yet to contribute one :(
<koolhead11> been fighting my ass out with dbconfig-common
<koolhead11> but the concept in itself is awesome
<TeTeT> koolhead11: I'm confused, why do you need formulas? Or do you mean deploying UEC with ensemble?
<koolhead11> TeTeT, formulas will act as a add-onn
<koolhead11> suppose you have an instance of natty for example
<koolhead11> and you plan to deploy say drupal on it, right
<koolhead11> for that you have to install apache, php, mysql-server, mysql and druppal as cms as well
<koolhead11> imagine time it will take for this deployment
<koolhead11> when you have ensemble with your drupal formula which depands (requires mysql formula)
<koolhead11> so won`t it be cool to run ensemble which in terms will do everything
<koolhead11> deploy to install and everything in one go
<koolhead11> https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/
<koolhead11> has all what you need besides kim0`s awesome screencast :)
<koolhead11> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMHcy63wRL0&feature=youtu.be
<koolhead11> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxMhKbDSbOw&feature=youtu.be
<koolhead11> in simple word ensemble will act as APT for cloud :D
<kim0> koolhead11: I think TeTeT knows all that :) I guess he's asking about deploying to uec (not ec2)
<koolhead11> kim0, well i doubt it has been done yet
<koolhead11> we are working on ec2 only
<kim0> koolhead11: werent u trying to do it
<koolhead11> kim0, i started getting into writing formulas and contributing first before trying that
<koolhead11> TeTeT, sorry i got confused and wrote it all
<koolhead11> :P
<TeTeT> koolhead11: no worries, all good
<CloudAche> Hi, Anyone know if there is anything like cloud-init available for Windows?
<kim0> I don't even know if Windows has any of the cool devops config-mgmt orchestration style cloud tools
<kim0> it seems so locked in the old days ..
<CloudAche> not sure
<CloudAche> the traditional method is sysprep I guess
<CloudAche> in terms of anonymising a cloned server
<CloudAche> although I think VMWare have tools to do this
<CloudAche> We will need something similar in Openstack
<CloudAche> I wonder how Amazon do it?
<CloudAche> Another question..
<CloudAche> Ubuntu Orchestra for Oneiric. Will it support bare metal deployment to iSCSI root
<kim0> RoAkSoAx might be able to answer this one
<RoAkSoAx> CloudAche: That would actually nbot be related to orchestra itself but rather actually being able to install an ubuntu image there
<RoAkSoAx> and if so, that'd just be matter of tweaking the preseed
<RoAkSoAx> but I don't know the status of support on installing iSCSI root
<RoAkSoAx> CloudAche: you might wanna ask on #ubuntu-devel about the status of it
<kim0> Howdy folks, Ubuntu cloud days (day-2) starting in #ubuntu-classroom on the hour .. see you there
<CloudAche> Thanks, I have been working with CJWatson a bit to try and iron some of the bugs out there. Not too far off now :-)
<smoser> ok...
<smoser> i need some naming help.
<smoser> uec-publish-image
<smoser> is an anachronism
<smoser> well... mabye not that
<smoser> but its out of date
<smoser> the idea is tha twe're changing "ubuntu enterprise cloud" (uec) to "Ubuntu Cloud"
<smoser> and 'uec' is thus both legacy and limiting (as it can work with ec2)
<smoser> Anyone have suggestions on what string to put in front of 'publish-image'
<mrjazzcat> smoser: I'm down with "uc-"
<smoser> well.. iguess that isn't that bad.
<smoser> the issue with ti is that it the thing that it interacts with is not neceissarily ubuntu at all
<smoser> (ec2 or openstack or eucalyptus, and can be used with any image)
<mrjazzcat> smoser: true enough.  Maybe the product name should change then ;-)
<smoser> well, this is really justa client tool
<smoser> this place is the one that i'm really struggling with
<smoser> the other places seem more straight foreard
<smoser> but independent of product name, i can't come up with a good name here.
<mrjazzcat> I suppose "sm" is too obscure
<smoser> it is cool though
<mrjazzcat> :)
 * mrjazzcat thinks you need a new name here, then abbreviate
<erichammond> smoser: I'm ready to help update/add AWS command line packages to https://launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/+archive/awstools
<erichammond> smoser: I believe I already have permission, but would love to get a peek at any documentation/code you have for the process you use to re-package what Amazon provides.
<erichammond> smoser: I can start with something that doesn't exist, like autoscaling, then you can review it and give me feedback.
<bhook> Hey folks, are there any known issues with block storage volumes on a fresh install of 11.04 UEC?
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-27
<smoser> erichammond, still around ?
<smoser> you're more than welcome to start packaging there. in fact i think taht would be great.
<smoser> which autoscaling where you wanting to start on?
<smoser> the rdscli package is i think the best package i have put together.
<erichammond> smoser: Just checked in again, but now heading home.  I was thinking of the "as-*" command line tools from AWS. http://aws.amazon.com/developertools/2535
<erichammond> smoser: Will check out rdscli. Thanks.
<kim0> Morning all
<koolhead11> hi all
<koolhead11> TeTeT, ping
<davinci11>  have a ubuntu-cloud problem,
<davinci11> when I restart instance, installed apache will disappear, it seems like cant permanently store into VM, can anyone facing this problem ?
<davinci11> can = did
<TeTeT> davinci11: you have this with UEC? Probably you want to have a persistent instance, that stores all data on an EBS volume?
<TeTeT> koolhead11: pong, what's up?
<davinci11> TeTeT: yes, and I using image from store
<koolhead11> TeTeT, so UEC on oneric will have openstack (diablo) ?
<TeTeT> davinci11: please have a look at http://people.canonical.com/~tspindler/UEC/ebs-based-instance.pdf , maybe it helps
<TeTeT> koolhead11: I don't know, please ask one of the developers
<TeTeT> koolhead11: I have no oneiric system yet
<davinci11> Thanks TeTeT, i will try it tomorrow, see if that work, got to go now see u
<TREllis> koolhead11: supposed to be diablo, yeah
<koolhead11> TREllis, and LTS on essex :P
<TREllis> eh?
<koolhead11> TREllis, next after diablo in the 6 month release cycle of openstack :D
<TREllis> koolhead11: ah didn't know the next codename
<koolhead11> TREllis, :d
<SpamapS> hallyn: around? I'm having some issues getting lxc containers to start on oneiric
<SpamapS> hallyn: ahh, looksl ike cgroup wasn't mounted correctly
<hallyn> SpamapS: hm, cgroups-bin should be getting auto isntalled?
<SpamapS> hallyn: it was installed, but didn't do the right thing. :P
<hallyn> SpamapS: can you file a bug?
<hallyn> (if you can reproduce)
<SpamapS> hallyn: sure, it may be a while.. too many plates spinning to stop and file a bug ;)
<hallyn> understood
<SpamapS> hallyn: shouldn't lxc-ps --lxc aux show me all the processes running inside containers?
<SpamapS> hrm.. my lxc containers are starting in recovery mode..
<hallyn> recovery mode?
<SpamapS> yeah
<SpamapS> weird
<SpamapS> hallyn: seems that net-device-up or filesystem is not being emitted..
<SpamapS> oh.. .. lxc-guest
<hallyn> did you not create with ubuntu template?
<SpamapS> I'm still using my uec template
<hallyn> it should either install lxcguest, or do the right rimming
<hallyn> oh
<hallyn> ok
<hallyn> s/rimming/trimming btw
<SpamapS> I may switch that though, now that I understand how these things work.. I can always just chroot in and install the cloud-init package after the container is created
<SpamapS> hallyn: been thinking about how to get the benefits of LVM w/o having to re-partition the machine.. was wondering if you had tried LVM on top of loopback files.
<SpamapS> hmm.. no that wasn't it
<hallyn> SpamapS: I/we should really spend a few hours getting aufs and/or overlay mounts integrated
<hallyn> there's even an open bug for it thanks to rcollins :)
<SpamapS> is overlay mounts a better aufs?
<hallyn> it's a much much simpler mechanism
<hallyn> basically we'd mount an empty new tmpfs, and then mount that over the container's rootfs
<hallyn> (overlay mounts only let you mount *one* dir on top of *one* other)
<hallyn> (but of course you can do that again and again :)
<SpamapS> hallyn: I would predict that our next meeting won't leave much time for optimizations. :-P
<SpamapS> hallyn: so the only way to add packages to the lxc container is to chroot into it right?
<hallyn> or pivot_root into it or start the container :).  (but yes)
<hallyn> oh, as for overlay mounts being a better aufs - in that it's actually upstream (is it now?) and therefore usable on all linux, yes.
<SpamapS> its in 3.0 yes
<hallyn> yay!
<hallyn> then I should really whip that up this week
<SpamapS> saw it fly by the other day and wondered what it was
<hallyn> oh, presumably mount binary needs an update
<SpamapS> I still think many of the tools you're working on are 99% the same as schroot/sbuild
<SpamapS> W/ a slightly different focus
<SpamapS> oops! forgot to write meta-data
<SpamapS> hallyn: btw, the ubuntu template is really nice
<SpamapS> hallyn: although --trim has just confused the heck out of me. :-P
<SpamapS> actually no.. thats not it
<SpamapS> hallyn: hmm.. I think your debootstrap may be missing a key package
<SpamapS> hallyn: w/o ubuntu-keyring, apt doesn't work
<SpamapS> might also be a bug in debootstrap
<SpamapS> yeah, debootstrap should be picking it up as a direct rdepend of apt
<SpamapS> weird.. so now cloud-init can do apt-get update, but installing packages fails
<hallyn> SpamapS: you're creating oneiric containers right?
<SpamapS> yeah
<SpamapS> had to patch the ubuntu template to add ubuntu-keyrung
<SpamapS> keyring even
<SpamapS> otherwise apt will not function
<hallyn> hm, this may be a bug elsewhere as of today.  bc i had weired problems with an schroot i created today
<SpamapS> and then I chroot in and instal cloud-init and rsyslog ...
<SpamapS> and the thing boots.. sort of ok.. but fails when trying to install the packages I asked for in my cloud-config
<SpamapS> hallyn: yeah that package sync may be borking things
<hallyn> SpamapS: can you reproduce iwth plain debootstrap, and then ask on -devel?
<SpamapS> hallyn: I'll try again later.. mucking with this as a favor to lifeless but I have other things to attend to. :-P
<hallyn> ok
 * hallyn is trying now
<hallyn> of course it also might be that you have stale /var/cache/lxc/oneiric
<hallyn> but lesee if i reproduce
<SpamapS> no I cleared that a few times
<hallyn> reproduced
<hallyn> reproduced
<hallyn> uh
<hallyn> yeah gnome-terminal is also funky :)
<rich_> hi, I'm having problems getting clould-init to run cloud-config on ami-1aad5273
<rich_> i see this in cloud-init log
<rich_> Failed loading of cloud config cloud-init
<rich_> any ideas anyone?
<hallyn> SpamapS: oh, feh - that's right, lxc-ps (which you mentioned before) isn't going to work right with cgroups right now
<SpamapS> hallyn: bummer
<SpamapS> hallyn: I'd do natty lxc's, but cloud-init is borked in them and I don't feel like dropping in my hacked up cloud-init-local.conf ;)
<hallyn> SpamapS: well you can just remove cgroups-bin and manually mount cgroups,
<hallyn> SpamapS: but are you actually depending on lxc-ps?
<SpamapS> no no no
<SpamapS> was just confused
<hallyn> i've been ignoring it bc it kinda sucks anyway
<hallyn> ok
<hallyn> i'm fixing the package shortcoming right now
<SpamapS> hallyn: was referring back to the broken bootstrap
<hallyn> ok, long as someone is around to push my fix once i test it, it can be fixed tonight
<SpamapS> your fix for the bootstrap?
<SpamapS> I wonder if we need to even bother "booting" these containers
<SpamapS> Just tell lxc to run init and sshd.. let cloud-init do the rest.
 * SpamapS should stop thinking out loud
<hallyn> SpamapS: you've got your choice of a debdiff attached to the bug, or the bzr tree linked to it :)  care to push?
<hallyn> ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/817233 )
<uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 817233 in lxc "oneiric containers need ubuntu-keyring package" [High,In progress]
<SpamapS> hallyn: shouldn't you have PPU on lxc? ;)
 * SpamapS is running sponsor-patch now
<SpamapS> hallyn: uploaded
<hallyn> SpamapS: yeah I should, but I always decide to wait one more day bc (1) I'm not sure if to add it to my PPU set I need to do a whoel new wiki page, and then I think I should just do ubuntu server set, and then I figure I need time to get all the info
<hallyn> so I never get around to it
<SpamapS> Yeah, the DMB is too heavy a process to get enthusiastic about
<hallyn> SpamapS: i do still see a bug with containers on some hosts not shutting down.  need to look into that tomorrow
<SpamapS> hallyn: is the stop action not waiting for them long enough, or is it that the 10 second timeout on all shutdown tasks is too short?
<SpamapS> I'm not exactly happy with that 10 second thing
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-28
<fagiani> hi, i would like to learn more about ubuntu cloud on local server instances, anyone can help me out?
<flaccid> whats a local server instance?
<flaccid> and could you be any more broad
<fagiani> i want to virtualize many small linux servers and they may born and die eventually... i thought that this ubuntu cloud approach would fit the needs
<fagiani> but as the company i work for has already physical machines then i would like to convert those into a local cloud
<fagiani> makes sense?
<flaccid> not at all
<flaccid> you can use UEC if you like, check out the docs
<robos> hi: I'm still confused about what a cloud is. what does it mean to be "in the cloud?" You don't get an IP address, right? You just have an application floating around?
<flaccid> robos: check out wikipedia. cloud is a generally abused umbrella term. could mean almost anything these days. the important thing is understand what a public, private and hybrid cloud is
<fagiani> flaccid: i guess i am confused as well
<fagiani> do you mind clarifying what a private cloud would be?
<flaccid> its on the web. this chan is for ubuntu cloud
<fagiani> i thought that i could get like 4 or 5 average boxes with virtualization support and make that a 'cloud environment' to launch virtual boxes unlinked to a specific hardware
<fagiani> in my company we don't have top servers but i thought we could use current hardware (couple year old) and make a 'private cloud' but i think i misunderstood what it is all about
<fagiani> and i thought i could achieve this using ubuntu
<flaccid> fagiani: this is what UEC is. install it, read the docs, get it setup, off ya go
<fagiani> flaccid: ok so UEC is not intended necessarily to be a paid solution to big companies right?
<fagiani> i can use it on my small biz?
<flaccid> anyone can use it
<flaccid> its not a commercial product
<fagiani> nice! thanks for the clarification! i would never look further as the name scared me :)
<flaccid> yeah thats typical ubuntu
<flaccid> enterprise is a silly word
<robos> okay, so i think i misunderstood a lot. Someone told me they were hesitant to use cloud computing because you can't have a separate web and database server because either the web or db could be floating in the cloud.
<flaccid> yeah, thats wrong
<robos> and they said the only way to do it is to deploy them together.
<flaccid> also wrong
<robos> ty :-)
<flaccid> some of the biggest things on the web run in the cloud. they have web and db servers bigger than most people would ever deploy
<flaccid> tell that person they shouldn't talk about the cloud if they don't know anything about it
<robos> or maybe they were thinking about a cloud that is across datacenters or something.
<robos> it would be a bad idea to have a webserver in NY and a db server in LA in some multi DC cloud
<flaccid> yeah and almost nobody does that.
<flaccid> its a bad practice unless its extreme last resort in DR.
<robos> what happens if you have a database and webserver in the UEC, and the database is moved to different hardware while a webserver is talking to the db? How is the communication maintained and not interrupted?
<davinci11> Hi, I just try to install image as TeTeT suggested yesterday http://people.canonical.com/~tspindler/UEC/ebs-based-instance.pdf
<davinci11> but when i follow as tutorial said until eki=$(uec-publish-image --type kernel amd64 ubuntu-kernels/*-kernel loader-emi | cut -f1)
<davinci11> replace loader-emi to test-loader-emi for testing
<davinci11> but i got this message "bash: kernels/*-kernel: No such file or directory"
<davinci11> whats wrong ?
<davinci11> Hi, I just try to install image as TeTeT suggested yesterday http://people.canonical.com/~tspindler/UEC/ebs-based-instance.pdf but when i follow as tutorial said until eki=$(uec-publish-image --type kernel amd64 ubuntu-kernels/*-kernel loader-emi | cut -f1)
<davinci11> replace loader-emi to test-loader-emi for testing but i got this message "bash: kernels/*-kernel: No such file or directory" whats wrong ?
<CloudAche84> hello all
<CloudAche84> anyone have any experience of configuring keystone with openstack nova?
<kim0> CloudAche84: #openstack might be a good place to ask
<CloudAche84> eerily quiet over there :)
<TeTeT> kim0: happy with the outcome of the ubuntu cloud days? There were quite a lot of people hanging out in classroom, but not sure how many paid interest
<kim0> TeTeT: interest and the level of interactivity vary with sessions, but I did get much good feedback
<TeTeT> kim0: glad to read!
<kim0> cool :)
<kim0> TeTeT: and how are things going for ya
<TeTeT> davinci11: on buckets and S3 - in UEC / eucalyptus images need to be stored somewhere, where the cloud components (e.g. front-end and node contrllers) can access it
<TeTeT> kim0: going ok, a bit of a slow day today
<TeTeT> davinci11: S3 is like a file store on the web where you can save and retrieve complete files
<TeTeT> davinci11: when uploading an image, e.g. the loader-emi in the EBS based instance exercise, it is actually stored in S3
<TeTeT> davinci11: the uec-publish-image command does that for you
<TeTeT> davinci11: like on your filesystem S3 has a structure, a bit like a directory, called bucket
<TeTeT> davinci11: the image has to be placed in a bucket
<TeTeT> davinci11: so what uec-publish-image does, is transferring an image from your local filesystem to a bucket
<davinci11> S3 is in local machine right ? or..
<TeTeT> davinci11: so you have to specify the path to an image on your local disk and a bucket on the S3 storage controller
<TeTeT> davinci11: nope, S3 is a remote component in your cloud
<TeTeT> davinci11: if you use the front-end as client (as I assume you do), it happens to be the same machine, but it is actually addressed via network protocols
<davinci11> then where is the image actually store ? on node's machine ?
<TeTeT> davinci11: the image is stored in the walrus controller (e.g. front-end in a small cloud)
<TeTeT> davinci11: when you run an instance, the image gets transferred to the node controller via S3 and is then changed locally
<davinci11> not in my local machine ?
<TeTeT> davinci11: nope, not necessarily on your local machine
<TeTeT> davinci11: I call the local machine the 'cloud control host', as it is where your credentials for the cloud reside
<davinci11> so the image transfer from cloud > node > local machine ?
<TeTeT> davinci11: first you need to transfer it from cloud control host (filesystem) to cloud (S3)
<TeTeT> otherwise the cloud cannot use the image
<davinci11> so the image is from local machine > cloud at first
<TeTeT> yes, that's what all the uec-publish-image commands are about
<TeTeT> first upload a kernel to S3, then a ramdisk, then a machine image
<davinci11> if i install anything e.g a program where does it store ?
<davinci11> on the VM
<davinci11> to cloud too ?
<TeTeT> davinci11: install a program in an instance?
<davinci11> yep
<TeTeT> davinci11: it is only inside the instance for the live time of it, until you terminate it. Unless you follow the ebs based instance exercise, then it's persistent. Do you know what EBS is?
<TeTeT> davinci11: technically the instance image is stored on the node controller and removed once the instance is terminated
<davinci11> EBS ?
<davinci11> so i need complete the ebs based instance exercise
<TeTeT> davinci11: elastic block storage, one of the ways to save persistent data in UEC
<TeTeT> davinci11: if you want an instance that more acts like a regular virtual machine, I fear so
<TeTeT> davinci11: which leads me to the question, why do you deploy a cloud anyway? Just testing the tech?
<davinci11> cause what i have done with UECCDinstall tutorial , when restart / terminate instance everything will lost
<TeTeT> davinci11: correct, instances are not persistent
<davinci11> testing it then use it on actual server
<TeTeT> davinci11: for what purpose? Do you have any cloud aware application?
<flaccid> whats an actual server
<davinci11> lol, now i understand a bit different between instances and ebs based instance
<davinci11> email server
<flaccid> you can run an email server on anything
<TeTeT> davinci11: the lack of persistence makes the transfer from traditional computing to AWS like computing a bit tough, as the application needs to solve this issue best
<flaccid> though that isn't a real term either
<TeTeT> agreeing with flaccid , a kvm machine might be a better solution for this
<TeTeT> or xen or whatever floats your virtualization boat
<davinci11> is not just email though may be something
<davinci11> else
<flaccid> you can probably do that something else, on anything too
<davinci11> EBS from Amazon right ?
<flaccid> huh
<flaccid> these are all on the OS level, not if its in cloud or where or whatever
<davinci11> they provide free EBS service ?
<flaccid> no, though there is some free ebs with the aws free tier
<davinci11> so EBS instance as <TeTeT> mentioned is free right ?
<flaccid> check it out on the website
<TeTeT> davinci11: not on amazon, in your own UEC
<flaccid> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aws+free+tier
<davinci11> oh
<davinci11> gotta go now , thanks for the help, see u....
<kooolhead11> hello all
<CloudAche84> hi
<kim0> hey
<richiemarshall> hi, can someone help?
<kooolhead11> ask your question
<richiemarshall> I'm trying to apply hostname, and update /etc/hosts through cloud-config
<richiemarshall> but it doesn't apper to be getting applied
<richiemarshall> other actions are
<richiemarshall> manage_etc_hosts: true hostname: fedb01
<richiemarshall> (separate lines)
<richiemarshall> am i using the wrong syntax?
<kim0> /etc/hosts doesn't really change a host name
<kim0> I don't think cloud-init has special syntax to change a host name, so you may just use a script for that
<kim0> apart from the fact that I don't think ec2 machines should have names on them :)
<richiemarshall> thanks kim0
<richiemarshall> changing hostanme just makes it easier to identify for the guys using them
<richiemarshall> I'd pulled the hostname things form the ubuntu cloud-config examples, so was preferring that running a script
<kim0> I'm not sure btw of all the above ;)
<richiemarshall> ok, thanks for the help
<hallyn> SpamapS: what is the 10m sleep you were talking about?
<hallyn> (Oblxc)
<koolhead17> kim0:
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-29
<davinci11> can't start instance and get this output [ FinishedVerify: Not enough resources (0 < 1: vm instances.Not enough resources (0 < 1: vm instances.]
<nci> davinci11: if you are using euca2ools, what is the output of euca-describe-availability-zones verbose?
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- vm types	free / max   cpu   ram  disk
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.small	0000 / 0000   1    192     2
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- c1.medium	0000 / 0000   1    256     5
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.large	0000 / 0000   2    512    10
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.xlarge	0000 / 0000   2   1024    20
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- c1.xlarge	0000 / 0000   4   2048    20
<nci> so that means your compute nodes aren't registered within the cluster
<davinci11> i tried to deregister and register nodes again
<davinci11> but still same
<nci> look at euca_conf --list-nodes
<davinci11> no output
<nci> :(
<nci> maybe try removing the cluster and re-adding it, then adding the nodes?
<nci> also check the keys
<davinci11> tried as well too
<davinci11> even remove the key and created new one
<nci> sorry, that's about as much as I know. I got Eucalyptus working after reinstalling a few times. I remember having issues if the auto-discover didn't work during the uec install.
<davinci11> no other way without reinstall ?? :(''
<nci> Maybe someone with more eucalyptus experience can help you, I'm not familiar enough with it. I assume you've checked the config files to make sure the nodes are looking at the right address, and that the correct ports are open?
<davinci11> look at nodes machine ? or cc
<flaccid> maybe tits literal
<flaccid> not enough resources
<flaccid> try googling the error
<davinci11> already tried what i found
<nci> go to the compute nodes and check you can connect to the right port on the CC using telnet
<davinci11> i'm using ssh to CC is that means ok?
<nci> ssh goes over port 22, you want to check the node can connect to the CC over a different port that eucalyptus is using
<davinci11> how to check ?
<nci> On the front-end, ports 8443, 8773, 8774 and 9001 must be open; on the node, port 8775 must be open.
<nci> so on the CC, try telnet [IP-address-of-node] 8775
<nci> if the connection is accepted then the port is open and the eucalyptus compute node is ok
<nci> then SSH to the compute node, try to telnet [IP-address-of-CC] 8773
<nci> and check the other numbers as well.
<davinci11> cant telnet from CC to nodes
<davinci11> port 8775
<nci> check if the eucalyptus process is running on the nodes - SSH to the node and run ps aux | grep euca
<davinc1> root      1824  0.0  0.1   5108  2148 ?        Ss   12:22   0:00 apache2 -f /var/run/eucalyptus/httpd-nc.conf -D FOREGROUND
<davinc1> 107       1913  0.0  0.2  40048  4748 ?        Sl   12:22   0:01 apache2 -f /var/run/eucalyptus/httpd-nc.conf -D FOREGROUND
<davinc1> root      2071  0.0  0.0   2352   912 ?        Ss   12:22   0:00 avahi-publish -s cluster1 node _eucalyptus._tcp 8775 txtvers=1 protovers=1.5.0 type=node
<davinc1> ubc1     23024  0.0  0.0   3608   868 pts/1    S+   15:09   0:00 grep --color=auto euca
<nci> ok
<nci> so the process is running
<nci> try telnet localhost 8775
<nci> on the compute node
<davinci11> Trying 127.0.0.1...
<davinci11> Connected to localhost.
<davinci11> Escape character is '^]'.
<nci> ok
<nci> escape from that
<nci> so I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like your CC can't connect to your NC
<nci> which is usually a firewall issue
<flaccid> portmap will check the port satus
<flaccid> *status sorry
<davinc1> Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
<davinc1> target     prot opt source               destination
<davinc1> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere            udp dpt:domain
<davinc1> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere            tcp dpt:domain
<davinc1> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere            udp dpt:bootps
<davinc1> ACCEPT     all  --  192.168.122.0/24     anywhere
<davinc1> ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere
<davinc1> REJECT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            reject-with icmp-port-unreachable
<davinc1> REJECT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            reject-with icmp-port-unreachable
<davinci11> iptables from CC
<nci> I'm not sure...sorry
<TeTeT> davinc1: maybe your cloud is not setup correctly? what's the output of euca-describe-availability-zones verbose?
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- vm types	free / max   cpu   ram  disk
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.small	0000 / 0000   1    192     2
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- c1.medium	0000 / 0000   1    256     5
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.large	0000 / 0000   2    512    10
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- m1.xlarge	0000 / 0000   2   1024    20
<davinci11> AVAILABILITYZONE	|- c1.xlarge	0000 / 0000   4   2048    20
<davinci11> it work before, but now can start anymore
<TeTeT> davinc1: you seee the 0000, that means your node controllers are not in the cloud anymore
<TeTeT> davinc1: did you reboot the systems or something like that?
<davinci11> yeah. both CC and NC rebooted
<davinci11> still same
<TeTeT> davinc1: from the front-end, do a $ sudo euca_conf --list-nodes
<davinci11> no output
<TeTeT> davinc1: so for whatever reasons your node controller was dropped from eucas config
<TeTeT> davinc1: try a $ sudo euca_conf --discover-nodes
<TeTeT> and see if the node controller is picked up again
<TeTeT> davinc1: what Ubuntu version do you use btw?
<davinci11> INFO: We expect all nodes to have eucalyptus installed in //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys for key synchronization.
<davinci11> output of $ sudo euca_conf --discover-nodes
<TeTeT> davinc1: weird, what would remove the keys from there on the front-end? I'm a bit out of ideas right now
<davinci11> Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud (UEC) 11.04
<TeTeT> davinci11: can you ping the node controller from the front-end? maybe $ sudo euca_conf --register-nodes <ip node controller> will work?
<davinci11> yep both work
<TeTeT> davinci11: try the euca-describe-availability-zones verbose again
<davinci11> same
<TeTeT> and euca_conf --list-nodes?
<davinci11> still no output
<TeTeT> davinci11: what's the oputput of $ sudo euca_conf --register-nodes <ip of node controller>?
<davinci11> INFO: We expect all nodes to have eucalyptus installed in //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys for key synchronization.
<davinci11> Trying rsync to sync keys with "192.168.168.20"...done.
<TeTeT> davinci11: that looks ok, when you do a '$ sudo su - eucalyptus' on the front-end
<TeTeT> davinc11: and then ssh to the node controller, does that work?
<davinci11> yes is working
<TeTeT> davinci11: looks like a bug to me then. Daviey, do you have an opinion on the above node registration problem on 11.04?
<TeTeT> davinci11: maybe this bug is hitting you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/585108
<uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 585108 in eucalyptus "euca_conf --register-nodes returns 0 but the node is not registered" [Medium,Confirmed]
<TeTeT> davinci11: probably dereigstering the node and then trying to add it again will help, but I'm not sure
<davinci11> TeTeT: I tried that way before, but still not work
<TeTeT> davinci11: hmm, on the front-end, try a $ sudo restart eucalyptus CLEAN=1
<TeTeT> davinci11: and then try the registering dance again
<davinci11> still same
<marrusl> kim0, great blog post today.  i'm sitting in a hadoop class right now.  nice timing.
<kim0> marrusl: hehe nice
<kim0> marrusl: is canonical supporting hadoop professionally now
<marrusl> kim0, for premium customers I would think so yes.  but probably not in general unless it went into main.
<kim0> got it
<koolhead17> hi all
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-30
 * SpamapS drums fingers on tray table while waiting for natty t1.micro to boot. :-P
 * SpamapS realizes he's just dumb and didn't allow incoming SSH
<flaccid> hehe
<jo-erlend> I would like to run a VM in amazon or something like that. I'm well aquainted with KVM and similar, but I haven't paid much attention to the cloud. What I want to do now, is to create a local VM, setup all systems and test it for a while and then upload it to some cloud. What do I need to know?
<bhook> anyone around?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: well ec2 is xen and you don't need to make AMIs but you can if you want
<flaccid> bhook: no
<jo-erlend> flaccid, what is an AMI? Can I just make my system as I want it as a KVM instance and transfer it? Or is there some sort of conversion I need to perform?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: might be a good idea to read the getting started guide so you are familiar with terms such as AMI
<flaccid> there is no kvm in ec2
<jo-erlend> flaccid, I understand that. And I'm not sure I want to pick Amazon. Is there a uniform way for me to handle these cloud things?
<flaccid> there are many images (AMIs) public that you can use, no image building required
<jo-erlend> yes, but I want to prepare it locally first.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: well i work at RightScale and we take the MultiCloud approaching of supporting more than just aws
<flaccid> why do you want to prepare it locally and why do you want to build an image?
<flaccid> ubuntu has images already available
<jo-erlend> I want to do it locally because I see no point in paying for a service when I can provide a better one myself, which I can in the time I spend preparing things.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: please read about UEC then, it comes with Ubuntu i.e. Eucalyptus
<flaccid> good luck trying to provide yourself a better service than aws though
<jo-erlend> local file access is far faster than the internet is. As long as I don't need any kind of external network, obviously my local server on my gigabit LAN will be better than placing my VM on the other side of the planet.
<flaccid> sure, that doesn't mean its a better 'service'
<flaccid> anyway good luck with UEC
<jo-erlend> for me? Obviously it is. But is it really necessary to setup an entire cloud for just one VM to prepare websites, databases, etc?
<flaccid> no
<flaccid> you can just use something like VirtualBox or VMWare Workstation or whatever
<jo-erlend> but then I cannot upload it to any clouds? Because that is what I've been asking how to do.
<flaccid> you can if you know what you are doing
<bhook> jo-erlend: you can make images in KVM and upload them to a cloud service
<flaccid> ec2 also provides VM Import and also uploading to EBS now.
<bhook> jo-erlend: as long as the image isn't using any KVM/Xen specific features
<flaccid> well the image needs to be xen compatible i.e. the kernel
<bhook> flaccid: on my images, the kernel isn't even in the image - the kernel is a separate image
<bhook> flaccid: kernel modules, if needed, are in the disk image, but the kernel itself is separate
<flaccid> well if you want to use your own kernel, pvgrub is required where the kernel is in the AMI.
<flaccid> bhook: i build images for a living, so i do know all of this
<bhook> flaccid: I don't doubt that you do, but you obviously have a very limited way of tackling problems. There are many flexible ways to do this stuff
<jo-erlend> which kernel do I need then? I suppose it's in the repos?
<jo-erlend> has to be ten years since I used xen :)
<flaccid> bhook: wtf. limited way of tackling problems? i presented more solutions than you.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: any kernel you like. read the user_specified_kernels.pdf doc if you want to use your own, or you can choose between the public AKIs
<jo-erlend> ... where do I find that pdf?
<flaccid> online
<flaccid> aws has bad seo, http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=user_specified_kernels.pdf&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest
<flaccid> if you would like to see how we build our official images at rightscale, https://github.com/rightscale/rightimage
<jo-erlend> this seems to have become a lot more difficult than it used to be. Perhaps this is only useful if you want great elasticity?
<bhook> flaccid: you've pretty much told him that the best service is always aws - that's all I meant
<flaccid> bhook: no i did not say that at all. but one would think that one person can't really compete with a multi billion dollar business that has been developed for nearly 5 years, but hey i'd love to see otherwise that would be cool
<flaccid> jo-erlend: what do you mean by 'how it used to be' ? with what sorry?
<jo-erlend> it used to be possible to put a VM, get an IP and some resources like 1GB RAM, two cores and x GB disk space. Now I have to read and read ... entire books, probably, just to get something up and running. A few years ago, I could just upload the image and run it.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: what was this with?
<jo-erlend> you're talking about the hypervisor? Both Xen and KVM.
<flaccid> no, what did you do the above procedure with? i.e. what software on the host, not the hypervisor
<flaccid> but yeah, reading docs is expected in computing
<jo-erlend> I don't understand that question. I think I scp-ed the image onto the server and issued a command to start and stop it. They had web UIs for it too. It was really simple.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: right, so what is 'they'? still have not established what you used to do this with..
<jo-erlend> different ones. I don't really remember their names. I just don't understand the benefit of the cloud if it makes things so much more complicated.
<flaccid> most users don't build images in the cloud, they use already available images. pretty easy stufff.
<jo-erlend> hmm. Ok, can I get a _plain_ Ubuntu Server so that I can rsync my local VM to the cloud one?
<flaccid> sure
<flaccid> you can just launch an instance and do whatever you like just like any computer
<jo-erlend> yes, but I have to use preconfigured images?
<jo-erlend> and if I choose Amazon, for instance... Does that mean I'm stuck with it, or can I move it to another provider?
<flaccid> well unless you learn how to build your own, yes. they are base images though, you can obviously do whatever you want on top via a configuration management system, cloud computing management platform or otherwise
<flaccid> you are not stuck with it. you would need to know what you are doing to 'move' it to another provider. this is why its a good idea to use base images plus configuration management on top so you are not tied to any one cloud
<bhook> jo-erlend: you generally build custom images from within a running instance - it is quite difficult to build an image from scratch
<jo-erlend> what does all these complications do for me?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: you are looking like a troll, dude
<jo-erlend> ...
<bhook> jo-erlend: in theory a well built image is portable between providers
<jo-erlend> I can get a VM up and running on KVM with Libvirt in .. 5 minutes? I don't have to read books. I don't have to understand now "cloud computing management platform configuration tools". I'm just wondering why the cloud is so much more difficult.
<bhook> jo-erlend: but there are benefits from within a single provider, like quickly firing up instances in any availability zone
<jo-erlend> what is an availability zone?
<bhook> jo-erlend: a local KVM instance makes lot more sense for a lot of uses - cloud stuff makes sense when you need the specific benefits of the cloud environment
<flaccid> jo-erlend: might be a good idea to start reading docs and using the cloud a bit so you get more familiar with how it works.
<flaccid> you could make your own cloud with libvirt and kvm, but that would be a reinvention of the wheel. UEC provides Eucalyptus atm and is moving to OpenStack iirc in the future.
<flaccid> both of which support KVM and can be managed via libvirt
<flaccid> cloud software is essentially an extension or another layer on top
<flaccid> because for on deman computing, you obviously need something to manage instances per user and bill them etc. if its a commercial service
<flaccid> *on demand
<flaccid> oh and the other thing is, if you dont need to use the cloud, you don't have to.
<jo-erlend> flaccid, you seem to be misinterpreting my question. My question is why a cloud VM is better than a normal VM.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: oh, well its not. i didn't see anybody say that it was.
<flaccid> as far as the instance/vm is concerened it has no idea and the image can be exactly the same. its not about whats better than.
<jo-erlend> oh. Seems to me that the entire wen has been trying to tell me that the cloud is the way to go.
<flaccid> whats wen?
<jo-erlend> web. Sorry.
<flaccid> sure, it has been the biggest buzz word for quite some time now
<flaccid> you are your own person, you can make your own choices
<jo-erlend> thanks for your support. Yes, I try to make my own decisions, but I sometimes prefer to find out what the choices are first. But that seems to be fairly difficult since each provider seems to use their own language of TLAs.
<bhook> jo-erlend: cloud resources are generally cheaper and more geographically redundant than what people have at their finger tips
<flaccid> whats a TLA>
<jo-erlend> three-letter abbreviation.
<bhook> jo-erlend: but, if you need one instance and you are using it for you (not to deliver a public facing server), then the cloud is overkill
<jo-erlend> acronym, even.
<flaccid> well rs supports 4 clouds at the moment. of course to do that we invested money. the images we build will always basically be xen or kvm and can be pretty stock. of course with commercial products there is going to be 'product's and different TLAs.
<jo-erlend> bhook, well. I was thinking about moving my blog. I want to manage my own services and I want some additional things such as a coudhdb and a mailserver. Pretty simple stuff.
<flaccid> ^ you can do that in the cloud or anywhere with one instance/vm
<uvirtbot> flaccid: Error: "you" is not a valid command.
<jo-erlend> flaccid, yes, but I don't even understand what they represent. It seems to me that these aren't normal VMs?
<flaccid> uvirtbot: tripped you out did  i? :p
<uvirtbot> flaccid: Error: "tripped" is not a valid command.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: no such thing as a normal VM. well you are new to the cloud, so much to learn and read at this stage
<jo-erlend> yes, but it seems I can't just ask for xGB RAM, x CPU cores, x GB hdd? _Why_ is there so much to learn?
<flaccid> well you can do that easily in eucalyptus and ec2
<flaccid> why is there so much to learn? because there is?
<flaccid> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/
<jo-erlend> yes. That seems nice. But then there is storage, which as I understand it is a completely different service?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: yes, read up on s3 and ebs
<jo-erlend> ok. So what I need is an EC2, an S3, an EBS and I connect these things using a cloud computing management platform configuration tool?
<flaccid> sure
<bhook> jo-erlend: a simple vps (virtual private server) from something like vpslink.com may be more like what you have used in the past. far less flexible than aws, but much simpler
<flaccid> though you can do all of that already in the aws console or in UEC
<flaccid> i assume that you have not setup UEC yet, so you may like to get started with AWS/EC@
<flaccid> ec2
<jo-erlend> ok, if I want to be able to move my VM back onto my own servers someday, then Amazon is the way to go? Because I really don't want to make a life long commitment.
<flaccid> thats not the right approach, 'moving vms'. you can always get data off an instance. you can directly download data from s3, you can't with ebs, but you can just ssh or rsync it out or whatever
<bhook> jo-erlend: linux is generally fairly forgiving if you rsync the contents of /. There are a few special files you have to remove and/or tweak, but all of your data and such should be fine if you chose to move later.
<flaccid> store you data in s3 or ebs or vcs etc., not on the instance itself
<jo-erlend> oh, ok. Because it sounded like these clouds needed special kinds of setups.
<flaccid> no, no idea where you got that from. ubuntu is ubuntu etc.
<bhook> jo-erlend: I had a local cloud controller crap out on me - I rsync the contents of the volumes onto flash drives and booted them on a bunch of spare laptops - like I said, linux is very forgiving
<jo-erlend> sure, I know. I'm not new to Linux. I'm new to these clouds.
<flaccid> the simplest scenario is backup/restore with s3 in a tar ball for example. pretty simple stuff at the end of the day. the idea is you design things as appliances so if an instance dies/fails, you can just launch another one and restore the same state.
<jo-erlend> if the images needed to be generated in their systems and not in my own, then I just assumed that was because there were special considerations when running it in the cloud.
<jo-erlend> flaccid, yes, pretty much what I do at home.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: they don't need to be generated in their cloud. you can build images anywhere, but it is pretty handy to just spin up an instance for 1 hour to do a build
<flaccid> the main consideration with ec2 is that it runs an old version of xen so that can be a problem at times.
<jo-erlend> oh, ok. So I can get a finished image that really is plain ubuntu server without any modifications?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: yes thats what ubuntu provides
<flaccid> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ami/
<flaccid> in terms of the UEC images, they are available somewhere, should be mentioned in the docs, but you don't have UEC setup yet it seems anyway
<bhook> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/Images#UEC Images on Local Hypervisor
<bhook> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/Images#UEC%20Images%20on%20Local%20Hypervisor
<flaccid> jo-erlend: and as you can see it shows you how to run that without the cloud env
<jo-erlend> oh, ok. What is the difference between an ebs-image and an instance-store-image?
<flaccid> the root device is ebs or s3 basically
<jo-erlend> oh, there is ebs-hvm-cluster too. Does this depend on how I store my data?
<flaccid> funnily the doc bhook referred answered all your questions. which is kind of why my first response was to read the docs.
<flaccid> no, this is where the root device comes from
<flaccid> instance-store, the image is stored in s3
<bhook> jo-erlend: the one thing to be extra careful with when playing with the cloud is to remember that ephemeral storage is NOT persistent. If you shut down the instance without storing the data somewhere, it goes bye-bye.
<flaccid> yep, this is the key to cloud computing. design your stuff so if it dies, launching a new instance restores state on boot.
<jo-erlend> oh, ok. My VM isn't automatically HA?
<flaccid> HA has nothing to do with anything here
<jo-erlend> HA doesn't have anything to do with a computer dying?
<flaccid> not in this context
<flaccid> you could have a HA setup, redundant via horizontal scaling and all instances die at the same time.
<jo-erlend> but I have to design my VM so that if a harddisk dies, then there is a copy somewhere?
<flaccid> its the same situation, HA is irrelevent
<flaccid> jo-erlend: yes
<bhook> by die he means terminates, whether intentionally, accidentally, or due to hardware failure.... even a HA server can be shut down manually
<flaccid> this is what storage and backups is for.
<bhook> if the instance "dies" the ephemeral storage is gone
<jo-erlend> yes, but I thought those systems were supposed to do this automatically.
<flaccid> and so is the instance itself which yeah is usually regarded as ephemeral
<flaccid> jo-erlend: probably best to disregard all your misconceptions of the cloud
<flaccid> systems are available, but of course you have to use them
<jo-erlend> that seems to be a good idea. I've been under the impression that it was a replacement for VPSes, but they seem to hardly have anything to do with one another.
<bhook> VPS vs AWS is about like Linux vs OSX... the ability to run ifconfig on both doesn't make them anything alike
<jo-erlend> how much time do you think I'll have to spend getting ubuntu server up and running on aws?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: takes a few clicks to launch the AMI and a few minutes to boot, thats it.
<bhook> jo-erlend: wrong question - the question is how much time will it take you to learn the tools and process
<flaccid> jo-erlend: what have you done so far and what docs have you read?
<jo-erlend> right, but that's when you've already learned how stuff works. I'm not used to all this. I've just used two physical boxes with KVM and Libvirt for virtualization and drbd for storage availability. This seems much more complicated.
<flaccid> i wouldn't call logging into a website and clicking a few things complicated.
<jo-erlend> well, I have to make sure that my data is persistent and I have to learn how to use these mechanisms you talked about to make sure that if a harddisk dies, my data is still instact, etc. I can't just click buttons. I need to know which ones to click.
<flaccid> like bhook and i both say, you need to read docs and learn
<jo-erlend> sure. That's why I'm asking how much time I should expect to spend on that. If we're talking weeks then it'll be far cheaper for me to pay someone to do that for me.
<bhook> jo-erlend: if you put your mind to it you can have the basics down in a couple of days if you have previous experience with non-cloud virtualization
<flaccid> its not a question we can answer. it depends on your intelligience.
<jo-erlend> about 140.
<flaccid> 140 what?
<bhook> jo-erlend: well, at 140 IQ you are probably screwed
<bhook> jo-erlend: hire someone
<flaccid> hehe
<jo-erlend> depends on which side of the pond you're at. :)
<jo-erlend> but ok. The general idea is that it's similar to a blade server? That you have a computer with some memory and then you have a storage area some other place where you can get persistent storage?
<flaccid> i guess so
<jo-erlend> and if you want to make sure your data is safe, you need to get two storages and synchronize them somehow?
<flaccid> nope
<jo-erlend> oh? Perhaps I misunderstood your reply earlier then.
<flaccid> you might like to read the docs and try it out.
<jo-erlend> you're right. Perhaps I should just take a break and start over.
<bhook> jo-erlend: ephemeral storage isn't "real" storage - it's more like a RAM disk
<flaccid> well doesn't seem like you started at all
#ubuntu-cloud 2011-07-31
<bhook> grrr... is it just me or are the CLI tools in 11.04 not completely compatible with the UEC 10.04 server components?
<jo-erlend> flaccid, I did actually. But I was told that aws was an easier way to get a VPS. When I read those docs, I only became more and more confused. But now I understand that I was misinformed.
<flaccid> yeah don't listen to people that don't know what they are talking about :)
<flaccid> think of vps as standalone and manually provisioned. where is cloud is on demand and per hour.
<flaccid> ok so i think thats enough free consulting. i think its time you actually go into it..
<jo-erlend> yes, but even sshd would keep the instance running, so... ?
<jo-erlend> yup, I am reading.
<flaccid> sshd has nothing to do with an instance running.
<jo-erlend> huh?
<jo-erlend> if I want to be able to connect to my instance, then surely it has to be running? ;)
<flaccid> you terminate an instance, its the same as essentially a shutdown -h now
<flaccid> well obviously
<jo-erlend> what I mean is that whether I pay by month or pay for every hour in the month.. What's the difference?
<flaccid> huh, you just said what the difference is
<flaccid> if i ran an instance for 55mins, i'd certainly rather pay for 1 hour and not 1 month.
<bhook> jo-erlend: if you are running a 24/7 server, then there is no difference
<jo-erlend> yes, but I would like my sshd to be available at all times, so it would have to run 24/7.
<flaccid> though most vps, you have to order, wait for provision etc. where is cloud is on demand, nothing manual
<flaccid> sure. not everyone runs 24x7 servers. people do scaling in the cloud, so it goes up and down and saves a boatload of cash.
<bhook> jo-erlend: if you were building a highly scalable service, you could fire up additional instances during peak load times and shut them down during off-peak
<jo-erlend> ok. But is it useful if I want a relatively small VM that's always on, but I don't expect any need to add further instances?
<Coder7> jo-erlend: a very low-load 24/7 server will cost more in AWS than in a typical VPS setup
<jo-erlend> oh.
<flaccid> um, no it wouldn't, especially not with the aws free tier.
<Coder7> ? last I checked it was more expensive than $14/mo
<flaccid> really depends where you are getting the vps doesn't it
<flaccid> not much point in comparing really
<Coder7> the free tier is only good for 12 months... but it's nice to know it exists, I hadn't seen that before
<Coder7> in the case of what jo-erlend wants to do, it makes sense to compare
<flaccid> well jo-erlend originally didn't even want to use aws.
<jo-erlend> what's important to me is that I own my own data, that I can change to another service if I'm not happy and that the service provider doesn't much around with my system.
<jo-erlend> muck.
<flaccid> jo-erlend: well you have that. of course, like storing data with any 3rd party, you should do off site backups fo secure the data.
<Coder7> wow... they have overhauled the aws pricing system since I last looked at the details
<Coder7> far cheaper for a tiny low-usage instance than it used to be
<jo-erlend> btw; there are some things I would like to experiment with and those require a fairly low latency. Is there some place where I can test against an actual machine to see what latency to expect?
<flaccid> jo-erlend: what do you mean? you can run an instance and do whatever testing you want.
<flaccid> i feel like i've been feeding a troll for 2 hours
<jo-erlend> that's not my intention.
<jo-erlend> but I mean.. "western europe" can mean different things.
<flaccid> there is a command called ping
<flaccid> also this isn't the place for aws. this is for ubuntu cloud. for amazon, #aws please
<jo-erlend> yes, but the ping might be different between Norway and Sweden and between Norway and Spain, although all of them might be considered "western europe".
<jo-erlend> oh, great. Thanks.
<jo-erlend> sorry for drifting off topic. :)
<flaccid> it was mainly off topic for the last couple of hours heh
<jo-erlend> yes, you're right. I lost track :)
<flaccid> for anyone interested, I have updated http://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/AmazonEC2Image with 20 images across all 5 regions.
<Coder7> flaccid: just curious (not trying to start an argument here), but why do all of those images use root logins?
<flaccid> Coder7: because Debian doesn't have another user. the root user is secured with PKI, so its not a security issue.
