#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-05-14
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | General X.Org plans for Saucy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21764/client-s-xorg-general/
<DavidChen> good morning/evening everyone
<seb128> hey
<bafu> DavidChen: hi
<mlankhorst> g'day mate
<DavidChen> bafu~~~  you are here!
<bafu> DavidChen: yeah, good to see u ha
<tjaalton> seb128: so, when do I get the hangout link? :)
<seb128> tjaalton, should be on summit I think
<mlankhorst> oh we now have a pic of seb128, wee
<seb128> tjaalton, mlankhorst: /msg it to you
<seb128> please share with others that should join
<seb128> tjaalton, coming?
<tseliot1> seb128: me too, please
<tjaalton> huh, didn't have the plugin installed
<seb128> tjaalton, way to be ready :p
<mlankhorst> what a massive lag o.O
<seb128> if anyone else, please ping me for the link
<blitzkrieg3> hi
<kgunn> seb128: if its light, i'll take the link
<tkamppeter__> hi
<seb128> kgunn, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/03d384463476f28c0e4ef7a1cbfd964aa4abcab5?authuser=0
<seb128> let's just share it on the channel
<seb128> I doubt people will abuse it ;-)
<olli-uds> mlankhorst: should be just on the left
<mlankhorst> what a lag o.O
<liuxing> hello  everyone
<seb128> shrug, I'm getting what I say a minute ago coming now
<seb128> said
<mlankhorst> yeah there's a lot of lag
<seb128> ok, better, I had the summit playback video in a tab
<ppisati> aren't we dropping panda images? so why do we care about X on omap?
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: so we'll be maintaining 2 different versions of the x stack?
<rsalveti> ppisati: not sure if we're indeed officially dropping for this cycle already
<mlankhorst> rsalveti: yeah, pandaboard just won't get updates
<olli-uds> how big is the diff/change
<olli-uds> for Unity
<mlankhorst> olli-uds: small
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: how will you manage 2 different xorg versions there?
<mlankhorst> rsalveti: I explained on the stream, it's a bit laggy, maybe it came through now :)
<rsalveti> ppisati: problem is that it doesn't work for touch either, no updates for the drivers even at the android side
<ppisati> rsalveti: my last info was that we were dropping omap4 images
<ppisati> rsalveti: R was the last one
<rsalveti> kgunn: you should help us getting a newer driver for panda :P
<rsalveti> ppisati: right, thought about the same, just didn't hear an official statement
<kgunn> rsalveti: i wish
<olli-uds> apw: we are here ;)
<olli-uds> apw: kgunn: it will be Unity 7.x (nux) on a pure X stack
<apw> olli-uds, i assume that is the same whether mir is underneath as a system compisitor or not
<olli-uds> apw good catch
 * apw seems to have lost the stream
<olli-uds> kgunn:do we need anything specific for/from X?
<kgunn> olli-uds: don't think so...other than stability :)
<kgunn> olli-uds: i'll follow up offline, but my understanding
<kgunn> is that any extension discussions we've had are relatively x version indep
<bregma> touch is just very complicated and there's not a lot of usage
<bregma> we've been working on it for 3 years, it's still not quite right
<jmleddy> yeah that bug is a pita
<jmleddy> I think we will need 12.04 too...
<smagoun> +1....OEMs are expecting to ship a lot more Ubuntu systems (laptops, all-in-ones) with touchscreens. We need to make sure we have solid touch support in the OS
<smagoun> We need a solution for 12.04, that is correct - OEMs are shipping 12.04, and will shift to 14.04 later in 2014
<jmleddy> tjaalton: what about prime integration into lightdm so that it "just works"?
<ritz__> I have an older radeon card with my laptop, open for testing
<jmleddy> tseliot1: script should be in the distro though
<mlankhorst> any other questions?
<seb128> mlankhorst, I seem to lag, do we need a W.I for the unity/barrier changes?
<tseliot1> jmleddy: definitely, it won't live in a ppa
<jmleddy> mlankhorst: that's a separate issue though...
<jmleddy> tseliot1: okay, just wanted to make sure it was covered
<jmleddy> I want that part fixed as well :)
<tseliot1> good
<smagoun> lots of lag here I think....is there some documentaion on how mir will handle hybrid gfx and switching GPUs?
<tkamppeter__> What about wireless screen connection WiDi etc?
<kgunn> smagoun: an advanced topic for mir team, we've got on the list (captured in our convergence blueprint)
<kgunn> smagoun: but something we haven't spent time on
<jmleddy> advanced as in 14.04?
<tkamppeter__> Any idea about wireless screen connection?
<tjaalton> tkamppeter__: what's that?
<kgunn> jmleddy: advanced as in convergence (i say that as in its a deliverable)
<jmleddy> okay
<tjaalton> jmleddy, smagoun: yep, we'll get the touch fix for 12.04.4 at the latest :/
<kgunn> jmleddy: admittedly, we have a long row to hoe before getting to topics like simultaneous multi gpu support
<tkamppeter__> tjaalton: similar to AirPlay, you have a video (also live stream) on your laptop and want to forward it to the TV, or even get your desktop on the TV, but wireless.
<seb128> mlankhorst, did you see my question earlier? "do we need a W.I for the unity/barrier changes?"
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: as for mir, wifi display should just be another display
<jmleddy> kgunn: okay
<tkamppeter__> kgunn: is there some active work done on that under Linux?
<mlankhorst> seb128: that was probably intended for precise, for saucy we'll just upload unity together with the new xserver
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: altho, there is a question of having proper rtp plugin support (e.g. miracast)
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: which might be a question for foundations team
<tjaalton> i guess widi has drm written all over it, and no drivers for linux
<seb128> mlankhorst, "just upload unity", is the patch to support the protocole change done or does it need an assignee/workitem?
<tjaalton> seb128: it's done, but not upstream yet
<seb128> ok
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: wrt active work on linux, android has this actually built in today
<kgunn> as part of jellybean
<mlankhorst> seb128: it's a small change, if you use the x1.14 ppa on raring you'll have the updated unity for raring.
<seb128> ok
<tkamppeter__> kgunn: will this code move into X, MIR, Wayland for desktop Linux? Perhaps we will have wireless projectors in the future.
<tkamppeter__> kgunn: and Ubuntu Touch would also be great to connect to Monitor/Keyboard/mouse completely wireless/
<mlankhorst> tkamppeter__: bluetooth :-)
<mlankhorst> or write something that uses the kernel uinput module if you want to go crazy
<tkamppeter__> mlankhorst: for keyboard/mouse it works, but for screen BT has probably not enough bandwidth.
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: all the wifi aspect should be up to a hw abstraction layer, making it just look like a new screen has appeared
<mlankhorst> yeah but nothing does
<kgunn> tkamppeter_: so it shouldn't be in mir/wayland/x
<mlankhorst> it's 474 megabyte/second
<mlankhorst> for 1080p @ 60 fps
<tkamppeter__> kgunn: in which part of the OS will this be implemented then?
<tkamppeter__> mlankhorst: does Bluetooth that speed? I think WiFi is even not that fast.
<mlankhorst> nah ofc not
<mlankhorst> but for wireless mouse keyboard it's good enough
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Printing Stack with Mobile in Mind | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21732/client-1305-printing-stack-with-mobile-in-mind/
<seb128> tkamppeter__, there?
<seb128> tkamppeter__, your session is starting, hangout url is https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/14bdba95931d5f848a5321673c459a77f66b9131?authuser=0
<seb128> who should be there?
<greyback> hey
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Printing Stack with Mobile in Mind | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21732/client-1305-printing-stack-with-mobile-in-mind/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Stress testing on mir | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21757/client-1305-mir-thrash-testing/
<kgunn> seb128: are you my monitor for mir testing ?
<seb128> kgunn, hey, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/01715a02682e4a34c409e8ead9999d1194873738?authuser=0
<kgunn> thanks!
<seb128> kgunn, no robert_ancell?
<cjohnston> seb128: could you please add the view link to summit
<gema> yeah, or give us the link to it
<seb128> cjohnston, sorry, forgot to press the save button
<seb128> done
<seb128> http://youtu.be/qIj0GcTCXQs
<cjohnston> ty
<rickspencer3> o/ all
<cjohnston> heya rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey
<josepht_uds> please use your lower third
<gema> kevin Gunn talking right now
<cjohnston> seb128: kgunn ^
<seb128> done for me
<cjohnston> seb128: I don't see it
<seb128> maybe it takes a bit to apply?
<cjohnston> there it is
<balloons> delay is killer :-)
<gema> there is a bit of lag, indeed
<gema> but the comments appear before the video says it, so it is also kind of cool
<balloons> gema, lol
<gema> tvoss: because the hard drive may have bad sectors,
<gema> tvoss: you have hardware interactions, etc
<tvoss> gema, which brings me to the question what sigma we are talking about :)
<gema> tvoss: if you constrain your testing condition enough, probably not much
<plars> assuming that it's going to be the same isn't helpful, running it multiple times will tell you if it is or not though. If the stddev is high, then you know you *really* have a problem. If it fluctuates by a few bytes from one boot to the next, well... I'll let you decide the criticality of that
<tvoss> plars, agreed :)
<plars> also if you have some corner case that causes the memory to drastically vary once in a while, multiple runs will expose that too
<gema> tvoss: I'd like to know what stress conditions you guy define for mir
<hikiko-uds> sorry, connection problems :)
<gema> tvoss: and what test cases you want to run under those
<gema> negative testing and positive testing would be functional, not stress
<sergiusens> QUESTIONS: what's the running cadence going to be and at want point in time from "code to in the image" is this going to be run?
<gema> how do you know that under stress the system is working?
<gema> you need to figure that out
<gema> what does it mean the system is working under stress
<sergiusens> kgunn: during an MR, during a package build or after an image builds in cdimage
<sergiusens> but thomi got it
<thomi> \o/
 * thomi high-fives sergiusens
 * sergiusens hi5s thomi back
<sergiusens> tvoss: can't the target MR reviewer take that into account?
<sergiusens> tvoss: or do you want to do it during MRs?
<gema> if you don't define what a regression is in terms of stress, you are not going to get regressions and you cannot know what makes a test fail
<gema> stress tests sometimes don't fail, they just slow everything down
<sergiusens> gema: well if it is going to block stuff, it needs to be defined
<gema> and how much slow down is bad enough to fail stuff
<gema> sergiusens: indeed
<gema> sergiusens: we should block submissions on functional testing
<gema> lots of stress testing not enough functional doesn't work
<gema> imho
<kgunn> it seems we've established 24 hours worth of testing is too long
<gema> kgunn: one week of stress testing sounds good to me
<gema> kgunn: when you don't block submissions on it
<kgunn> i don't vote for blocking submissions
<sergiusens> well, for stress... it is a special case, where you run and I believe you just need to capture the good stuff and then sit down and analyze
 * gema is confused as to what stress testing means here
<kgunn> sergiusens: yes
<kgunn> mainly before a mobile oem gets his hands on it :)
<gema> kgunn: can you put someone to do a test plan, define conditions, document them , publish them for others to know and test further?
<gema> kgunn: so that we know where you guys stop testing and where we need to start?
<notclive> is there a reason not to do a large stress test for each commit?
<gema> notclive: that'd be too slow
<gema> it's not too much lag, we can do a run weekly of stress testing
<gema> at the distro level
<gema> indeed
<gema> post-commit
<sergiusens> in all honesty, stress is special case, it needs to be in distro or people won't notice it
<gema> sergiusens: agreed
<gema> kgunn: you should aim at mir not eating all the memory after being used for 2 months
<gema> kgunn: which is what is going to happen in real phones
<gema> people wont reboot them every day
<sergiusens> thomi: exactly, you need to sit down and do a lot of data crunching and figure out what happens
<kgunn> gema: never heard that before ;)
<gema> tvoss: very good point, defining what health system is and be able to report when things are not looking healthy
<gema> tvoss: surely those phones can send emails, right?
<gema> ;)
<balloons> nightly reboots: shudder
<sergiusens> tvoss: phones take 10 minutes
<sergiusens> tvoss: if you want to run it in the full os
<gema> thomi: doesn't sound easy to me, can you involve us in the review of it?
<gema> thomi: so that we can then capitalise in distro QA and do something at the distro level
<tvoss> gema, what's your timeframe for getting it wired up in distro testing? would it make sense to go ahead for Mir, and integrate with distro testing over time?
<olli> thx everybody
<tvoss> thx olli :)
<olli> I did the hard part
<olli> letting people talk that know their stuff with out interrupting ;)
<tvoss> olli, o/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-05-15
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Hybrid graphics support strategy planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21742/client-s-hybrid-graphics/
<seb128> hey
<ara> hi all
<mlankhorst> who has the echo?
<mlankhorst> and youtube loaded
<erappleman|drone> albert is echoing i think
<ara> who has the echo?
<mlankhorst> https://lwn.net/Articles/548909/
<ara> tseliot1, do you have the youtube stream opened?
<tjaalton> ara: you want to join?
<tseliot1> ara: yes, but I stopped it
<ara> tjaalton, sure, thanks
<apw> tjaalton, your keyboard is very loud
<tjaalton> apw: I'm not typing :)
<tjaalton> whoops
<chiluk> are you talking about primus? or optimus through the nvidia blob?
<erappleman> the blob
<kgunn> usually gpu's render in a reverse N shape
<erappleman> nouveau can benefit
<kgunn> that's probably what you're seeing
<kgunn> vsync is not really sync'd w/ gpu render complete
<mlankhorst> kgunn: it's not the same as vblank either
<hlh> tseliot1: we can speak with the radeon group mgr tomorrow
<tseliot1> hlh: good point
<mlankhorst> oops, i added tseliot1 to ignore instead of muting
<mlankhorst> how do i unignore?
<erappleman> alex and amd aren't being open about their dma_buf approach?
<seb128> mlankhorst, what do you mean ignore? or from your side?
<erappleman> or is -radeon fine?
<mlankhorst> seb128: from my side I think
<seb128> mlankhorst, maybe leave and rejoin?
<seb128> as a workaround
<tseliot1> mlankhorst: hover the cursor on my face and click on the 2nd icon
<mlankhorst> You can't join this hangout because you blocked one of the participants. Why not start your own hangout?
<mlankhorst> o.O
<seb128> :-(
<tjaalton> haha
<ara> nice
<mlankhorst> fail lol
<mlankhorst> how do I unblock someone seriously
<FourDollars> @_@a
<tseliot1> seb128: can you invite Maarten again, please?
<seb128> mlankhorst, maybe go to his profile page?
<erappleman|drone> xorg session mentioned that optimus mir was not even on the radar. i'd be glad to be a guinea pig
<mlankhorst> seb128: and now google plus complains I didn't block anyone
<seb128> tseliot1, mlankhorst: tried to send an invitation
<xranby_> how to test for tearing like the X quadrants?
<erappleman|drone> who knew hanging out could be so hard
 * mlankhorst logged in from canonical account
<chiluk> Is there a reason we are not shipping bumblebee or at least bbswitch modules ?
<mlankhorst> it cannot be supported
<chiluk> the power benefits of bbswitch along warrant inclusion.
<apw> has anyone committed to mir supporting hybrid configurations in the near term ?
<erappleman|drone> nvidia-prime package would be always on. not sure what dri_prime=1 is doing these days
<FourDollars> \^o^/
<erappleman|drone> apw, i'm going to be testing as bits land. i think maarten will be doing all the magic :)
<apw> erappleman|drone, the X session commentary implied it was not on the roadmap at yet
<erappleman|drone> i read the logs. if i can get it to work, that's one thing. if it can't be done without doing ridiculously hackish things that's another
<erappleman|drone> with respect to lightdm, will gdm and gnome team be able to do something similar?
<mlankhorst> any more questions?
<erappleman|drone> will gnome edition and kubuntu be able to take advantage of this work?
<jmleddy> mlankhorst: what like crazy?
<mlankhorst> tearing
<hlh> jmleddy: hey - we should add this question to tomorrow's mtg agenda - both to Tim as well as Jammy
<jmleddy> yeah
<hlh> jmleddy: reference the video/notes of this session probably as well
<hlh> jmleddy: and put it out so that tim has time to ping alex about it :)
<hlh> jmleddy: I'll do that as a special agenda point
<hlh> +1
<tjaalton> thanks folks
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Support for convertibles and touch screen on Ubuntu desktop | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21736/client-1305-convertibles-and-touch-desktop/
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, is the coming session (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-convertibles-and-touch-desktop), yours?
<seb128> tkamppeter, hangout url https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e1f469f457b9603e41b963690d7a3bc02e2056f6?authuser=0
<seb128> stream one: http://youtu.be/hKaeA8D3bMU
<aaronp> Sorry I missed the hybrid graphics thing.  I'll watch the video to see if there was any action for me.
<seb128> tkamppeter, I'm away a few minutes but the hangout is open, who is coming?
<mlankhorst> not much
<ara> hello
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have connected to the hangout.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, who is supposed to join?
<tkamppeter> seb128: mlankhorst and who has to do with X and who has to do with Touch see Blueprint.
<tkamppeter> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-convertibles-and-touch-desktop
<CheeseBurg> Hello?
<seb128> hey
<tkamppeter> seb128, can you write up the stuff?
<CheeseBurg> This is the touchscreen thing right?
<ara> is the video supposed to be live now? I cannot see anything
<smagoun> seb128: have we started the touch on convertibles/desktop session? Youtube is not liv
<asac> me neither
<smagoun> *live
<smagoun> I see youtube video now
<ara> ok, I see it now
<seb128> smagoun, right, but not a lot of people there
<CheeseBurg> Yea it is up now
<seb128> I'm trying to get some of the xorg guys
<CheeseBurg> So how is everyone doing? :)
<seb128> do you get echo as well?
<smagoun> no echo in youtube
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> it should be all the same with unity-next
<tvoss> agreed
<kenvandine> no point in working on it with the current unity
<tvoss> kenvandine, +1
<TheMuso> I'd agree with that.
<TheMuso>  /session. :p
<tvoss> seb128, ping
<seb128> tvoss, pong (sorry my computer is starting to swap and laaaggggg)
<asac> seb128: killall chromium-browser
<asac> :)
<seb128> tvoss, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e1f469f457b9603e41b963690d7a3bc02e2056f6?authuser=0
<seb128> asac, using firefox
<asac> s/c.*er/firefox/
<seb128> maybe it's my issue
<asac> yeah ... use chromium for hangouts and google mail, docs etc. and ffox for the rest
<kenvandine> the *new normal* of course
<seb128> bah
<asac> probs
<seb128> hangout closed
<Saviq> ouch
<seb128> back
<ptl> ouch (2)
<asac> you can continue
<asac> not for me
<asac> u are not live
<FourDollars> @_@a
<ara> back
<asac> ack
<kenvandine> oh joy... i guess google IO gets higher priority than UDS :)
<seb128> kenvandine, likely...
<FourDollars> Google I/O does not start yet.
<kenvandine> the normal desktop will be ubuntu touch
<TheMuso> /c
<timchen119> is it just me or it keep stop and start
<seb128> bah, can't open the hangout toolbox for some reason
<TheMuso> ...and this is why I am personally very much against using a web browser for generalist things, like... Oh I dunno, video. :)
<ara> QUESTION: what time frame are we talking about, JohnLea (for gestures to be implemented in the desktop)
<ara> all gestures, this is
<FourDollars> timchen119: My youtube streaming is OK
<timchen119> FourDollars, thanks it seems ok for me now
<JohnLea> ara; well basically we will have to re-build almost all the desktop functionality from Unity 7 in Unity 8, and this project is not going to really start until the Phone is delivered.  So not for a while yet
<JohnLea> ara; we are not adding new touch functionality to Unity 7
<ara> JohnLea, thanks
<TheMuso> There is a session later this week about unity 7.
<TheMuso> But yeah, as is being said, bug fixes only.
<mariuskot> Till, it works for me with two fingers to scroll
<asac> error here now
<asac> was on my side it seems
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Touch System Settings | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21780/client-s-touch-system-settings/
<mardy> seb128: do you have the link for the hangout?
<seb128> mardy, setting it up
<seb128> shrug, my machine is in swap mode again, hate Dell
<lool> (unfortunately can't make it to this one as I'll be in power mgmt in foundations 1)
<seb128> mardy, tedg, kenvandine: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1403f3911557e5a48a82c8c1a9f13dd9c5bb1f7c?authuser=0
<tedg> charles, Are you going to join the hangout?
<seb128> charles, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1403f3911557e5a48a82c8c1a9f13dd9c5bb1f7c?authuser=0
<seb128> if you want to join
<charles> seb128: I'll be right there
<olli> seb128, do we need somebody from phonedations?
<olli> is chicken there?
<kenvandine> no chicken here
<seb128> olli, he's not there, not sure if we need him
<seb128> I don't think we will cover specific details of individual panels
<tedg> mpt?
<tedg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemSettings
<olli> pmcgowan, ^
<seb128> we will rather cover the design/infrastructure
<tedg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemSettings/Architecture
<mardy> team: https://launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch
<mardy> tedg: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings
<Laney> so we'll get some kind of "Hello World" plugin?
<Saviq> tedg, mardy: do we yet have a place where to put the widgets common between settings and indicators?
<tedg> Saviq, Well, I thought you had the action to set that up :-)
<tedg> Saviq, I've built the wiki page for listing it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemComponents
<Saviq> tedg, k, can you put an action item for me about that?
<tedg> Saviq, DONE!
<Laney> I can't tell from the docs what the plugin interface is / what the plugins do
<Laney> like when might I have to write my own? Background settings keeps coming up - how does that get integrated?
<Laney> seb's asking questions at the right level for me
<mardy> seb128: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qtqml-cppintegration-topic.html
<lool> seb128: you can apt-get source some of the -declarative packages too
<Saviq> QUESTION: what about i18n?
<seb128> mardy, https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-system-settings/proto ?
<Laney> please address IRC questions!
<Saviq> there was a QUESTION from Laney beforeâââ
<Laney> it seems like there's some significant lag between IRC and the streem
<Saviq> jeez I've like 2 mins lag on the video...
<Laney> 1 minute ish for me
<seb128> Laney, want to join the hangout?
<seb128> Laney, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1403f3911557e5a48a82c8c1a9f13dd9c5bb1f7c?authuser=0
<ayr_ton> IDEA: user-accounts in system settings.
<Laney> ok
<Saviq> thanks
<Laney> I'm going to get crossed wires
<pmcgowan> Yes cannot get in kenvandine
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, :/
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, yes no etherpad
<mardy> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/overview-ubuntu-sdk.html
<Saviq> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/overview-ubuntu-sdk.html#list-items
<charles> thanks Saviq :)
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhoneApp#Settings
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Current status and plans of scopes | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21797/client-1305-scopes/
<Guest93018> Hello everyone
<seb128> hey Guest93018
<jamesh> hi
<Guest93018> we talk about unity?
<gema> anyone driving this session?
<gema> no video yet
<fugue88> \o/
<gema> o/
<pstolowski> gema: try reload
<gema> it's there now
<fugue88> Really bad echo.
<olli> fugue88, still?
<kgunn> no echo here
<fugue88> Like 90% amplitude, delay of about 2 seconds.
<fugue88> olli: Yes.  This is on the youtube channel.
<fugue88> Oh wait.
<fugue88> I had 2 streams running.
<olli> fugue88, stream looks ok here
<olli> sounds even ;)
<fugue88> olli: Yep, it's good.
<pstolowski> David's scopes project: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-scopes
<davidcalle> Which is moving to https://launchpad.net/unity-scopes, piece by piece
<davidcalle> Also, the WIP Scopes Browser link : http://framli.eu/scopes_browser/
<jamesh> The prototype code we used to test out Go is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jamesh/+junk/go-scope-test/files -- it only covers enough of the API necessary for me to do a few benchmarks
<Saviq> QUESTION: apart from result TTL, do you think a very small query of "is there anything new since time xyz" could be supported? like when a local scope knows that its data has changed (or not) since time xyz?
<PitiDidi> QUESTION: will the smart scope be aware of the interests of a user. Example. you type "car". well, for a graphical designer probably it is more interesting to get more "images" or other graphical related results. While an engeneer is maybe more interested about car news etc....
<PitiDidi> QUESTION: do the scopes support "smart" words... for example detecting expressions like "how to" "when" "where" etc... and then based on this expressions will change the results based on that?
<Saviq> aquarius_uds, just asking to reduce unnecessary queries
<Saviq> aquarius_uds, TTL is one thing, but the scopes (especially local ones) would usually know whether it makes sense to refresh it every TTL
<PitiDidi> QUESTION: if the server is not aware then at least the client side tracks the "interests" to re-filter on the client side?
<Saviq> aquarius_uds, could barely hear you, but to some extent yeah, it's caching, but yeah, since scopes are supposed to be shut down... probably doesn't make sense
<pmcgowan> olli, is anyone capturing the notes of these updates and q&a
<PitiDidi> i understand, but Im not suggesting that it axes other results out... i mean based on interests you get a tendency or favorism to certain result-types based on your past behaviour.
<pmcgowan> sorry to ask so late ;(
<PitiDidi> if you have to hard configure stuff like that then you lose kind of the "smart" of the "smart scopes" ;) don't you think so?
<olli> pmcgowan, np, appreciate the pointer ;)
<davidcalle> http://framli.eu/scopes_browser/#
<Saviq> o/
<olli> we'll get the etherpad updated
<pmcgowan> thanks
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
#ubuntu-uds-client-1 2013-05-16
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Delivering a Unity 8 Desktop in Ubuntu 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21785/client-s-unity8-on-desktop/
<seb128> hey
<seb128> we just had a change of schedule, unity8 moved to 18utc
<mterry_uds> :(
<kenvandine> :(
<seb128> (some people couldn't make it to the old slot)
<seb128> mterry_uds, kenvandine: do you have a conflict at 18utc?
<mterry_uds> should be fine
<seb128> cool
<kenvandine> nah, was just excited :)
<seb128> kenvandine, you have to be excited for the while morning then, even better!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> whole*
<kenvandine> :)
<tedg> So what is going in this slot?
<seb128> tedg, nothing
<kenvandine> seb128, the next session is going to be weird then...
<seb128> or "Provide more render types for Dash lens" if somebody wants to do that
<kenvandine> it should go after the unity 8 session
<seb128> the session seemed a kylin one with no subscriber that was scheduled by mistake
<seb128> I dropped it
 * tedg doesn't want to do it
<seb128> k, let's keep it dropped then
<tedg> Perhaps we should just have the tedg and kenvandine comedy hour
<kenvandine> yeah!
<tedg> The Internet has been waiting for that.
<seb128> can we get kenvandine to complaining about tedg's naming skills? ;-)
<kenvandine> the internets
<seb128> to complain*
 * kenvandine just did :)
<tedg> BETTER THAN CAT VIDEOS!
<seb128> doh, can't type
<seb128> ;-)
<tedg> seb128, That's all kenvandine does, not sure we could expect him to stop ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, what about the desktop unity polish for 13.10 session?  shouldn't that go after the unity 8 in 13.10 session?
<seb128> kenvandine, there is no slot after 18utc
<kenvandine> i know :)
<kenvandine> but having it first seems like a waste
<RAOF> Wait. Isn't the unity 8 in 13.10 session first?
<seb128> kenvandine, what outcome from unity 8 is important?
<seb128> RAOF, pmcgowan just asked me to change it to 18utc because tvoss can't make it
<rickspencer3> morning all
<seb128> RAOF, you can go sleep for an extra hour :p
<rickspencer3> oh
<RAOF> seb128: Extra hour? That's 4am.
<kenvandine> seb128, i guess the unity polish session is really all about unity 7
<seb128> RAOF, make it extra 4 hours? ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, that's my guess
<olli> can /me have an invite for the hangout pls
<olli> seb128 ^
<kenvandine> olli, no session
<kenvandine> reschedule for 1800 utc
<seb128> olli,  RAOF, pmcgowan just asked me to change it to 18utc because tvoss can't make it
<olli> that tvoss
<TheMuso> We have the wrap-up at 18:00... I didn't think sessions could conflict with that...
<seb128> no
<seb128> wrapup is 19utc
<olli> wrap up? the closing plenary is 1900 utc
<olli> heh
<bregma> and now I have a conflict with sessions at 1800, thanks
<GuidoPallemans> I have an idea for unity 8, but I can't make it, now it is rescheduled... what are my options?
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, it's a 18utc
<seb128> bregma, what session conflicts?
<GuidoPallemans> seb128: I know it is in 4 hours, but I can't be there since it has been rescheduled. How can I present my idea now?
<TheMuso> Sorry, I just got up, brain not working yet...
<bregma> the Unity8-on-desktop vs. the start-applications-with-upstart
<bregma> I'll get one of my henchmen to hassle Ted
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, write them on the etherpad for the session?
<olli> or catch bregma now if he has time
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-s-unity8-on-desktop
<GuidoPallemans> oh, yeah, thanks for the tip :D
<bregma> evidently I have the time
<kenvandine> bregma, great idea... we need more henchmen after tedg
 * tedg whips out his katana, "Bring on the henchmen!"
<tedg> My entire goal for that session is to make that foundation's problem, not mine :-)
<seb128> bregma, the app launch stuff seems like a Trevinho topic ;-)
<GuidoPallemans> can anyone read my idea at http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-s-unity8-on-desktop ?is it worth sharing?
<GuidoPallemans> and expressed well? I won't be able to attend
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, the session is not really about discussing unity 8 design or feature
<GuidoPallemans> oh
<seb128> it's about how we make it available in Ubuntu
<GuidoPallemans> oh ok
<GuidoPallemans> is there a more applicable session for this?
<seb128> you should probably just use #ubuntu-unity on IRC or the mailing list to discuss design ideas
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> but the team is available any day on IRC
<GuidoPallemans> hmm
<seb128> you can just try to discuss the topic there
<seb128> #ubuntu-unity
<GuidoPallemans> I'll check that out then
<GuidoPallemans> thanks!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Desktop Unity Polish for 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21784/client-s-unity7-polish/
<olli> seb128, I'll take an invite for this one
<olli> bregma, ^
<seb128> olli, oh, this one is moved to 19utc...
<seb128> joking ;-)
<olli> run!
<seb128> I should!
<seb128> olli, bregma,  andyrock_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/62aab287aaaf62b9da6e28880c32a8d8de7fc4df?authuser=0
<seb128> trevinho, Trevinho|UDS: ^
<Limurx> Compiz lost the Ring Switcher in 13.10 QQ
<seb128> ok, session broadcast started
<olli> shoot, forgot to grab me some coffee
<seb128> video cast: http://youtu.be/g7CNGm9fZgQ
<didrocks> olli: too late :p
<snwh> this is about the Polish version of 13.10 right? ;)
<olli> we confused bregma
<JohnLea> this is about the 13.10 default desktop
<didrocks> olli: he looks confused!
<olli> correct, what changes Unity 7 (nux) will see in 13.10
<bregma> had to close etherpad
<olli> bregma, shall somebody else present on your behalf
<GuidoPallemans> where are the blueprints?
<olli> that might be a short session ;)
<olli> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-unity7-polish
<GuidoPallemans> thanks
<GuidoPallemans> seb128: you think this moment might be suited for my idea too?
<olli> if it's Unity 8 then probably not
<andyrock> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgbjHLzk4QTdDNGM1hEeDlZWVNrQzBfckdHY2M2Rmc#gid=0
<GuidoPallemans> but it's not strictly unity 8
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, not sure, ask bregma?
<GuidoPallemans> the hangout seems down
<seb128> sorry, my box is ultraswapping
<seb128> should be back up
<seb128> GuidoPallemans, if you want to join the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/62aab287aaaf62b9da6e28880c32a8d8de7fc4df?authuser=0
<GuidoPallemans> joining...
<GuidoPallemans> Idea: Let the launcher bar at the left react like on ubuntu touch, when dragging a finger from the side of the touchpad of a laptop - also possible: drag from top to go through indicators, drag from the right to do alt-tab, drag from bottom to open hud - should be possible to opt out (settings->mouse) - pro: nobody uses the side of the touchpad to initiate mouse movement anyway - con: scrolling with the right/bo
<GuidoPallemans> installing plugin...
<olli> had network issues
<Limurx> Is there still no plan on including the "Use online results" option to the installer?
<balloons> so did I miss the est. dates for landing these things?
<bregma> balloons, 100 scopes is in the next few weeks, compiz trunk probably sooner, other things later, and bugfixes are ongoing
<seb128> chromium as default in 5 minutes
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Foundations | Chromium as default browser | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21788/foundations-1305-chromium-default-browser/
<qengho> seb128: what's the URL for joining discussion?
<seb128> qengho, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0
<seb128> session is in 5 minutes, I started the hangout
<seb128> just grabbing a drink and I will be back
<firefox-is-aweso> ah crap, not enough characters
<TheMuso> firefox-is-aweso: Not quite, nick character length limit. :p
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: ^^
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: But I happen to agree with you.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0
<chrisccoulson> you're going to make me install google software now? ;)
<TheMuso> hahaha
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bet we are!
<achiang> chad looks like the most interesting man in the world ;)
<TheMuso> The blueprint mentions some.
<nik90> you should check the pad..there are a list of reasons against chromium
<seb128> oh, I can see a chrisccoulson
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how is google's software working? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i hate it
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i install google-talkplugin at the end of the session :P
<pumpichank> does chromium support multiple different profiles? Â i use that a lot with firefox
<jj345> I'm a long-time Ubuntu user...it doesn't make sense to me why Ubuntu would switch from Firefox...Chromium is dominated by for-profit Google, which is supporting DRM and other things at odds with Ubuntu's values
<vasa1> will Chromium continue lagging Chrome stable or have you sorted out whatever build issues there are?
<jdstrand> jasoncwarner: fyi, I added a question to the bottom of the etherpad
<mdeslaur> does v8 have arm64 support?
<victorp-uds> ooohh
<jasoncwarner> jdstrand: could you paste it here?
<nik90> Question: What about adobe-flash support? Will Chromium automatically retrieve the latest adobe-flash package?
<jdstrand> jasoncwarner: what are the plans for security support? (ie, we have predisclosure with mozilla but haven't with chromium in the past). Lack of predisclosure could delay timely updates
<roadmr> chromium is very in-your-face about wanting you to log in, which potentially allows it to tie your activities to your account. Potential privacy implications should be considered, i.e. bringing another organization (amazon, now google) into the controversy?
<victorp-uds> jasoncwarner,  the arm64 is more interesting.. since soon it will be the default ARM arch I will think
<victorp-uds> but I cant imagine google wont fix that for the chromebooks though
<pumpichank> does chromium support multiple different profiles? Â i use that a lot with firefox
<madjr> my default browser is chomium specially due to a couple of extensions, but specially because setting up sync on firefox tends to be harder, so I give up
<mdeslaur> pumpichank: I believe that's going away in firefox
<pumpichank> does chromium support multiple different profiles? Â i use that a lot with firefox
 * Laney eyes pumpichank 
<pumpichank> does chromium support multiple different profiles? Â i use that a lot with firefox
<Laney> he's asking the question once per profile
<chrisccoulson> pumpichank, yes, i believe it does
<barry> goodness, kiwi is horrible
<madjr> @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you
<jdstrand> qengho: fyi, firefox only very recently got the pdf.js in Ubuntu
<alex-abreu> yes for pds,js !
<alex-abreu> except that it might not be very stable
<achiang> chromium is much more performant on ARM
<chrisccoulson> alex-abreu, it should be more stable in theory, as it doesn't add any extra native code or additional API's (and thus doesn't widen the attack surface either)
<chrisccoulson> unlike things like adobe reader ;)
<mdeslaur> hangout just died
<jdstrand> *sigh*
<mfisch> same here
<jj345> dead
<TheMuso> And we want to use more Google products in our distro. Awesome idea.
<TheMuso> NOT!
<mdeslaur> lol
<jasoncwarner> can everyone see us?
<mfisch> no
<nik90> no
<jdstrand> jasoncwarner: no
<TheMuso> No.
<alex-abreu> chrisccoulson, sure I was using the word stable as in ... "works" for a great variety of PDFs and is secruity proof (using & testing it w/ malformed / malign dfs)
<daker> no
<Laney> there's probably some lag
<mdeslaur> jasoncwarner: hangouts died
<jdstrand> "We'll be right back"
<alex-abreu> oops
<seb128> still down?
<TheMuso> back
<alex-abreu> yup
<mdeslaur> oh! back up now
<mfisch> back
<nik90> yup
<jasoncwarner> great
<jasoncwarner> I'll continue with the questions from the top
<mfisch> chrisccoulson: its back now
<blitzkrieg3> its back
<ikt> ^
<jdstrand> video is back
<madjr> @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you
<nik90> jasoncwarner, chrisccoulson: you guys are back..no worries
<madjr> @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you
<madjr> @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you
<madjr> hate kiwi
<alex-abreu> QUESTIOn/IDEA did we try to create some bridges w/ some chromium/google devs to ease up the collaboration or something (I am thinking about the more and more restricted amount of enabled plugins etc.)
<alex-abreu> this ^ thinking about webapps
<qengho> pumpichank: yes, arbitrary profiles.
<qengho> Command-line switch.
<madjr> @TheMuso if people already use google products is not like not having it default will keep them from using it :p
<nik90> chrisccoulson: yes
<qengho> TheMuso:   Chromium:Google :: Ubuntu:Canonical.   Just a sponsor.
<alex-abreu> jasoncwarner, chromium automatic checks for outdated plugins .. and warns you about it w/ a banner
<alex-abreu> flash
<qengho> alex-abreu: Chromium does something similar.  Upstream even blacklists ones that are insecure.
<TheMuso> qengho: I know about the relationship with chromium and Google.
<alex-abreu> qengho, yes, ... I had to work around that w/ webapps remember
<alex-abreu> and we don't control that nor are aware of what there plans are
<qengho> TheMuso: So, your complaint with other code?  You don't like libprotobuf or something?
<mdeslaur> Can we please the native window decorations turned on by default in the chromium package so it at least _looks_ like other ubuntu apps?
<seb128> and has the win buttons on the same side
<madjr> @TheMuso if people already use google products is not like not having it default will keep them from using it :p
<chrisccoulson> alex-abreu, it's the same for firefox (mozilla have a blocklist for plugins and addons that we don't control)
<alex-abreu> and the message that I had from some of their guys was a bit "discouraging" from the perspective of linux default plugins
<qengho> mdeslaur: native win dec will be on by default in next.  Already done.
<madjr> QUESTION: what's best for the convergence ? or doesnt matter because Ubuntu's own browser from the phablet, beÂ 
<mdeslaur> qengho: cool, thanks
<jj345> I am not clear on the main rationale for switching to Chromium as the default
<TheMuso> qengho: I trust Firefox somewhat more than I do Google.
<alex-abreu> chrisccoulson, yeah, but their extension mechanism w/ jsctypes allows for an easier integration that does not require binary plugins
<Laney> I've heard a lot of "Why Chromium wouldn't be so bad" but not a lot of "Why Chromium is better than Firefox"
<alex-abreu> most of the time
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, ditto ;)
<achiang> jj345: many people feel that chromium is faster/snappier
<bashrc> I don't have a strong preference, but I also tend to trust Mozilla more than Google
<jj345> Will Canonical make more money from Google with Chromium as the default vs Firefox?
<achiang> i have to say, i run both side-by-side daily, and ffx definitely feels slower and pokier
<achiang> that's on x86, and the difference is even starker on ARM
<Laney> has that been measured?
<qengho> jj345: No. Probably less, in fact. The default "Home" page isn't a google $earch any more.
<jj345> I don't understand, Firefox has bigger market share https://www.netmarketshare.com/
<chrisccoulson> take figures for any of these sites with a pinch of salt
<achiang> Laney: i've tried measuring, but it's really hard to do an apples-to-apples
<chrisccoulson> they all tell you something different ;)
<seb128> jj345, situation is different in different countries
<Laney> yeah, like all brits use safari
<seb128> as well
<seb128> Laney, they do, I read it on the internet this morning!
<achiang> the brits *invented* safari! (and tea time)
<roadmr> There's plenty of open slots in the hangout so if you're participating actively perhaps you'd consider joining
<alex-abreu> achiang, ... and jello ...
<vasa1> will Chromium continue lagging Chrome stable or have you sorted out whatever build issues there are?
<jasoncwarner> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
<jasoncwarner> http://royal.pingdom.com/2013/03/21/browser-wars-2013/
<jasoncwarner> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-201204-201304
<qengho> vasa1: those are never more than several days behind.  There's one right now, but it's not normal.
<jcastro> so what's the security window then
<mdeslaur> I wish chromium had a print preview feature
<jcastro> say it's 2 days after a stable chrome release and it fixes some security issues
<Laney> I don't know how much I find raw usage stats compelling as they can be influenced by a lot of factors
<jj345> Missed this one: Will Canonical make more money from Google with Chromium as the default vs Firefox?
<qengho> jj345: No. Probably less, in fact. The default "Home" page isn't a google $earch any more.
<jj345> qengho: ok thanks
<Laney> a usability study comparing the two would probably be good
<mdeslaur> jcastro: +1
<TheMuso> What are we going to be using on mobile? I know it will be webkit based, but will it be Chromium or another frontend to webkit?
<jcastro> also do we care that there's no built in pdf reader in chromium? Or do we just punt to evince?
<achiang> TheMuso: highly likely *not* actual chromium
<mdeslaur> How much work is involved porting firefox vs chromium to mir?
<seb128> jcastro, we didn't have a pdf viewer in firefox for years either
<qengho> jcastro: we punt.  We ask evince to implement pepper API.
<jj345> WebKit or Blink?
<madjr> QUESTION: what you guys think about Blink ? will it affect web apps or
<qengho> jj345: webkit, specifically.
<TheMuso> achiang: Is that going to be the case for the converged story as well?
<jcastro> qengho: thanks sorry I missed it earlier.
<jj345> qengho: thx
<achiang> TheMuso: i don't know the plans for converged browser, unfortunately
<TheMuso> achiang: Ok I'll guess I will have to wait till next cycle.
<jdstrand> jj345: see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-webkit-maintenance
<jdstrand> jj345: it's off-topic for this, but it is being discussed
<jj345> y it is a bit off-topic, was curious, thanks
<jasoncwarner> any other questions?
<jcastro> I have some questions about webapps
<jcastro> mind if I pop in the hangout?
<jasoncwarner> jcastro: sure
<Laney> what's the update policy going to be for chromium in stable releaes?
<seb128> jcastro, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0
<Laney> and will we continue to see firefox updated in the same way either way?
<jj345> what's the next step in this process?
<achiang> QUESTION: are we committed to backporting chromium to older LTS, for *all* architectures? :)
<achiang> (at least arm*)
<qengho> achiang: all supported!
<jasoncwarner> achiang: not arm
<qengho> all supported ubuntu releases get today's chromium.
<jasoncwarner> achiang: j/k
<chrisccoulson> only powerpc
<achiang> jasoncwarner: i hate you for giving me a temporary heart attack
<mdeslaur> hehe
 * achiang forces jasoncwarner to eat a carb-laden potato
<rickspencer3> aiui webapps will not be impacted by a switch to chromium
<rickspencer3> I can join and explain
<alex-abreu> jcastro, about webapps ... webapps already work on chromium
<chrisccoulson> achiang, jasoncwarner will accept the potato if it comes with a steak
<alex-abreu> and w/ the chromless
<achiang> chrisccoulson: no steak, just a tofurkey for extra punishment
<rickspencer3> webapps are being built around QtWebkit
<qengho> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0
<rickspencer3> jcastro, ^
<jcastro> got it, thanks!
<rickspencer3> jcastro, deep design
<rickspencer3> nah, jasoncwarner explained it
<jasoncwarner> about 15 minutes left...any other questions or concerns?
<madjr> QUESTION: what you guys think about Blink ? will it affect web apps or
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: what about the Ubuntu Touch Browser? can I run that on my netbook?
 * rickspencer3 assumes it will be faster
<madjr> sorry kiwi hates me
<alex-abreu> jasoncwarner, do we have a blueprint page for the work (or potential work involved) ? ...
<rickspencer3> I can answer madjr's question if necessary
<alex-abreu> rickspencer3, it should indeed
<roadmr> QUESTION: The point of the session was to consider whether to switch, how will this decision be taken, given the feedback and points raised here today, and how/when will this be announced?
<Laney> rickspencer3: it was an accidental question
<Laney> the web interface has a habit of repeating peoples lines
<madjr> packaged apps:Â http://developer.chrome.com/trunk/apps/about_apps.html
<roadmr> jasoncwarner: yes, question answered, I blame the ~2-minute youtube lag :)
<jasoncwarner> roadmr: no worries ;)
<jasoncwarner> last chance! any more questions?
<qengho> alex-abreu: the /topic has a Blueprint link, which will have these work items for closing the feature gaps.
<rickspencer3> lol
<chrisccoulson> is the lag actually that bad?
<alex-abreu> qengho, oops sorry missed that
<rickspencer3> not a troll!
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: yes, pretty bad
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: :)
<alex-abreu> chrisccoulson, it is bad :)
<chrisccoulson> wow
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: like 30 secs
<rickspencer3> I find chromium to be massively faster on my older hardware
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: I believe that is the consensus
<jcastro> I find it to be a tradeoff, faster but more RAM is used.
<alex-abreu> rickspencer3, +1
<chrisccoulson> i don't have old hardware ;)
<jcastro> but I run it on an Atom machine and it's pretty snappy
<rickspencer3> jcastro, well, I have a 1gig netbook, and firefox kills it
<alex-abreu> jcastro, it might actually change w/ blink as they have more controler over allocators & all
<jasoncwarner> thanks everyone...ending the hangout, though we can continue chatting here
<achiang> jcastro: chromium is *much* faster on ufa ;)
<bdrung> ufa?
<jcastro> ubuntu for android
<bdrung> thx
<chrisccoulson> i think it's well established that firefox desktop sucks on arm
<rickspencer3> thanks jasoncwarner
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3 I have moved exclusively to chromium from firefox on my old machines, just FYI. that is an n=1 datapoint, but I find it much, much faster.
<alex-abreu> thx!
<chrisccoulson> which is why mozilla rewrote firefox for android ;)
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, n=2, I'm the same
<rickspencer3> firefox brings my older hardware to it's knees
<rickspencer3> like, I can't look at FB on my netbook in Firefox :(
<seb128> that's fb's fault :p
<rickspencer3> I take it these points were well tread in the session that I missed
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, it works fine in Chromium
<seb128> weird
<seb128> but yeah, the performances difference was discussed earlier in the session
<rickspencer3> seb128, did they discuss the profiles features in Chromium
<rickspencer3> it is so awesome
<seb128> no
<madjr> will chrome packaged apps work on chromium ? they dont look like browser tabs
<alex-abreu> madjr, why wouldn't they?
<alex-abreu> madjr, they run chromeless but all the support is in chromium no chrome
<alex-abreu> not
<madjr> a cool
<madjr> a cool
<madjr> a cool
<madjr> ;/
<madjr> another +1 for chromium then (till ff catches up)
<TheMuso> /c
<Laney> mmm, well we've been criticised in the past for enumerating deficiencies in default applications while trying to argue to switch away from them and not before
<Laney> like "you have all these problems that are so serious that we can't advocate your software any more but we never raised them with you as such"
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
 * Laney will probably try to say something more eloquent in response to the thread
<bubbly193> I see no problem, since I already switch my default to chromium on new installs anyway
<bubbly193> i can attest that on my 1gig machine,Â FirefoxÂ runs just as poorly
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Delivering a Unity 8 Desktop in Ubuntu 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21785/client-s-unity8-on-desktop/
<tvoss> seb128, you running this session?
<olli> I thought bregma is
<bregma> doesn't the track lead set up the session?
<tvoss> bregma, that's what I was thinking :)
<seb128> tvoss, bregma: I "host" the session
<tvoss> seb128, ah :) bregma should obviously lead :)
<seb128> but I don't have an agenda of what to discuss to "lead"
<seb128> good
<seb128> starting the hangout now
<seb128> I will give you the link in 30s
<olli> 1 mississippi
<olli> 2 mississippi
<seb128> olli, tvoss, bregma: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0f27676dfa03ae37619f5f68d91ed49e6acd0532?authuser=0
<seb128> ;-)
<olli> ;)
<seb128> be back in 2min, but the hangout is open
<seb128> feel free to ping whoever else should join
<seb128> tvoss, how do you do the floating yellow head thing? ;-)
<tvoss> seb128, in the toolbox :)
<rickspencer3> "floating yellow head thing"?
<tvoss> rickspencer3, the one in the video :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, http://youtu.be/CDmOboGlutU
<rickspencer3> is stephen web on a boat?
<seb128> too late
<seb128> you get real tvoss now
<Cimi> lol
<thomi> bregma: it should build for saucy as well
<thomi> bregma: u-s-c that is
<thomi> in the PPA
<rickspencer3> seems like if you could make a PPA you could get it into main
<rickspencer3> just as easy
<seb128> yeah, main just need a MIR with security review
<TheMuso> I was under the impression that Mir was needed for the phone image in October anyway, which means the archive.
<seb128> which is no problem, just a few days/weeks delay to have reviews done
<kgunn> seb128: ack
<kenvandine> lol
<rickspencer3> it has to get into the archives for 13.10 at some point
<kenvandine> right
<rickspencer3> just need someone who is motu to package and upload it, right seb128?
<kenvandine> you really only need it in main when we want to seed it
<kenvandine> we don't need that for 13.10
<kenvandine> universe is fine
<kgunn> kenvandine: rickspencer3 (i'm learning) what's meant by seed?
<kenvandine> in the default install
<kenvandine> for 13.10 universe and unseeded for the desktop should be fine
<kenvandine> but seeded for the phone
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes, but in practice we just want it to the daily landing stacks
<seb128> in the daily*
<sergiusens> kgunn: tvoss bregma can't this be added to daily release?
<kenvandine> sergiusens, sure
<kenvandine> sergiusens, we need to
<sergiusens> kenvandine: assuming there are no clashes I guess
<seb128> there was a discussion earlier this week/today about making the new scope not conflict with the old ones
<kenvandine> yeah
<sergiusens> Saviq: has to be in main I've been told
<seb128> so old and new unity would use different ones
<kenvandine> they need to be parallel installable
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<Saviq> sergiusens, why main?
<seb128> that was discussed in the scopes session yesterday
<kenvandine> sergiusens, no
<kenvandine> it doesn't need to be in main
<Saviq> kenvandine, yeah, they are
<kenvandine> we land universe packages already with daily release
<sergiusens> kenvandine: ok, thought ogra mentioned it needed to be in main
<bregma> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview
<pmcgowan> bregma, I think these are all being worked already
<pmcgowan> talk to phonedations
<pmcgowan> and didrocks
<kenvandine> the apps are all setup to daily release for saucy already
<Saviq> phonedations!?
<Saviq> yikes :D
<tvoss> Saviq, haven't heard that before? :)
<sergiusens> kenvandine: did that happen already? Or is it, we are ready to flip the switch?
<Saviq> tvoss, no ;)
<kenvandine> sergiusens, i think we are ready to flip the switch
<kenvandine> but it's all ready to flip
<sergiusens> kenvandine: ok, so we are still in sync :-)
<kenvandine> Saviq, phonedations == Saviq
<sergiusens> kenvandine: the saucy move is coming soon
<rickspencer3> \o/ can't wait to run the touch apps on my netbook
<sergiusens> bregma: so the list of stuff affecting desktop is indicator-network, indicator-messages, regarding indicators
<sergiusens> it shouldn't
<sergiusens> jasoncwarner: it shouldn't
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: do you envision the preview being installed by default in 13.10, or is it something I will install to get access?
<Saviq> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-unity-greeter
<bregma> nor by default
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Going by previous discussion, I think it will be an optional install.
<sergiusens> COMMENT: everything here is targeted for archives: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next
<sergiusens> COMMENT we have meta packages
<sergiusens> Saviq: everything in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next/+packages
<Saviq> jasoncwarner, ^
<olli> rickspencer3, did this answer your q
<rickspencer3> olli, sorry, I was in another session
<rickspencer3> unless you meant TheMuso's answer, then "yes" it answered my question
<rickspencer3> thanks
<olli> rickspencer3, we dedicated valuable 4min of our air time to answer your question ;)
<olli> rickspencer3, in essence: to be decided
<rickspencer3> olli, ok
<rickspencer3> I can replay the video later ;)
<olli> depending on quality
<rickspencer3> olli, ack, that makes sense
<sergiusens> olli: your question regarding rickspencer3 is just showing up for me now
<olli> ah, lovely delay
<olli> oh good, so rick can listen to the discussion
<rickspencer3> listening now
<rickspencer3> interesting discussion
<Cimi> agree with didrocks
<jasoncwarner> everyone always agrees with didrocks ... funny how that works ;)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: \o/
<rickspencer3> nous sommes en accord
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, ^
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> gar
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: hey, I got that ;)
<seb128> google hangout error again, it's reconnecting
<seb128> sorry guysd
<seb128> should be back?
<rickspencer3> I thought seb128's "gar" was in response to my French :)
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: his gar works on multiple levels. he's deep...like a woody allen movie or something (french like him, right?).
<TheMuso> Surely if bug reports are being filed after saucy is released, they should be treated with some priority given the converged focus of 14.04.
<seb128> rickspencer3, lol, no, that was good ;-)
<jasoncwarner> about to wrap up. Any other questions or comments?
<Limurx> QUESTION: Will this pretty flower be part of the 13.10 unity greeter? :D
<rickspencer3> "anybody know how far the stream is behind"?
<Cimi> it depends if you click the 'Live' button or not
<olli> I just checked ~2min
<mterry_uds> Limurx, it's still part of the phone greeter design, but not for desktop likely
<Cimi> was way less olli
<Cimi> just click 'Live'
<olli> I did
<mterry_uds> (for 13.10)
<olli> last call... any questions
<seb128> rickspencer3,  hum, "a certain amonth of time"? ;-)
<seb128> amount
<Cimi> olli, it's instant for me, less than 30s
<didrocks> rickspencer3: un certain temps indÃ©terminÃ©
<sergiusens> Cimi: that should be a default!
<sergiusens> :-P
<didrocks> (let's continue on the French trending)
<Cimi> lol
<Limurx> mterry_uds: Looking forward to it!
<seb128> didrocks, en temps certain? (comme le fut du canon)
<alex_abreu> didrocks, that's doubly vague ... "certain"/"indertermine" :)
<Cimi> ahah
<didrocks> alex_abreu: on purpose! :)
<seb128> thomas "yellow head" voss was back for a moment!
<Cimi> fail
<Cimi> ahahaha
<seb128> lol
<tvoss> seb128, yeah, without a scarf ...
 * tvoss waits for someone to twitter about that *cough cough*
<Cimi> ahhaah
<Limurx> mterry_uds: Looking forward to it!
<Limurx> mterry_uds: Looking forward to it!
<Limurx> mterry_uds: Looking forward to it!
<Limurx> mterry_uds: Looking forward to it!
<Limurx> Sorry the irc was somehow bugged
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1
<Craig> Would you be able to include or easily add on pepperflash to your Chromium as it is much more current then then the flash we have on ubuntu
