#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-21
<s-fox> Hello.
<s-fox> :)
<ali1234> um, how do i enable compiz on natty classic?
<ali1234> the "effects" tab is... gone
<ali1234> also, who else thinks the icon for "no desktop effects" looks exactly like the ghostbusters logo?
<hamitron> "don't like them creepy wavey windows?......" "who you gonna call?" ;/
<ali1234> ok i am confused
<ali1234> bug 701301
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 701301 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "[Natty] No compiz config tab on Appearance capplet" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/701301
<ali1234> this says i have to select it on the login screen
<ali1234> ok, fair enough
<ali1234> but the available options on the login screen don't appear to include unity
<ali1234> and none of them give me compiz
<dutchie> is there a #unity for you to complain in?
<ali1234> complaining in #ubuntu+1
<ali1234> i don't want unity, i want classic with compiz :)
<ali1234> *all* the options on login screen give me exactly the same thing: classic with no effects...
<ali1234> oh jeez... why is byobu in the menus?
<ali1234> why would i even want to use this if i have a GUI?
<dutchie> same problem with htop
<dutchie> doubt bugs in the menus are going to get much love though
<ali1234> i don't see htop
<dutchie> it is not installed by default
<ali1234> fair enough then
<dutchie> but if you do install it, it inserts itself into system tools
<ali1234> i dont even have a "system tools"
<dutchie> that's because it's empty with default apps
<ali1234> i see
<dutchie> i suppose you are slightly more likely to launch htop from a gui than byobu
<ali1234> going to make a new user
<ali1234> see if it fixes login stuff
<ali1234> oh wow the user settings dialogue doesn't work at all
<ali1234> popey: i confirm your bug btw
<ali1234> looks slightly different with human-murrine but it is clearly the same thing
<ali1234> can't post screenshot though cos for some reason i don't have a network-manager icon either
<ali1234> i like how there is multiple flavours of indicator applet now :)
<ali1234> ooo grub supports mode setting now?
<ali1234> how do i tell what i'm actually running?
<ali1234> ...and then it locked up completely...
<ball> I burned two Ubuntu CDs for a customer today.
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> Anyone awake feel like looking over cooling setup? http://pastebin.com/HMggUSkN
<ali1234> cool
<Azelphur> ali1234: I thought you'd shout at me :o
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> cooling system for your PC: Â£300
<ali1234> opening a window: priceless
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> Overclocking to 4+ghz: priceless
<ali1234> anyway, i don't know anything about cooling systems
<ali1234> just felt like trolololing
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> *shrug* it's cheaper than the ridiculous old cars some people have, and it has more purpose too
<ali1234> don't old cards sell for about the same as that set up?
<ali1234> *cars
<Azelphur> ali1234: not if you keep them in a garage forever staring at them like "OMG ITS AWESOME *_*"
<Azelphur> and "Noooo never sell this car"
<Azelphur> fast PC can actually earn me money too, bitcoin @ idle ftw
<Azelphur> or save the world, folding@home while idle
<ali1234> just no
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> bitcoin is going to earn you less than the cost of the electricity
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> but nah as I say the main reason is I enjoy it and it's not an insanely expensive hobby when compared with a lot of others
<ali1234> you can spend as much as you want on PCs without much difficulty
<ali1234> just buy a mac pro
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> max it out: Â£10000
<Azelphur> ali1234: sorry, I think you've got me confused....I want good hardware.
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> a mac pro *is* good hardware
<Azelphur> it's ridiculously overpriced hardware with crappy software :D
<ali1234> ok, it's not as good as the pricetag suggests, but it's not bad by any stretch
<Azelphur> lol
 * ball still fancies a Sun Ultra 60
<Azelphur> ball: haha :D
 * ball wanders off to the kitchen.
 * ball wanders back with corn chips.
 * ball falls down
<HazRPG> well I've managed to do something rather unusual!
<HazRPG> I've managed to make any sounds that seems to be outputting from any application, sound electronic
<HazRPG> or rather digitised - like a robot :S
<HazRPG> all I did was open up mumble while totem was playing a DVD
<HazRPG> I've since closed totem and mumble... and it still hasn't corrected itself
<HazRPG> huh, seems to be caused by speech-dispatcher
<HazRPG> ending that, seems to have fixed it
<Myrtti> myÃ¤Ã¤Ã¤hh, I hate flus
<HazRPG> Myrtti: yeah same
<HazRPG> Myrtti: *hugs*
<HazRPG> brb
<livingdaylight> hola ubunteros
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/business
<AlanBell> I am heading to the daubers area today
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> AlanBell: My area?
<daubers> reading?
<AlanBell> inkpen
<AlanBell> you old area
<daubers> Really? Who're you seeing? Someone in the Sawmills?
<AlanBell> company that makes racing harnesses for F1 cars
<daubers> That must be in the old Sawmill....
<AlanBell> New Mills Industrial Estate, Post Office Road
<AlanBell> so yeah
<daubers> Yeah :)
<daubers> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Inkpen,+UK&aq=&sll=36.668419,-104.414062&sspn=48.476708,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Inkpen,+Hungerford,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.379775,-1.462343&spn=0.00121,0.003484&t=h&z=19 There somewhere
<AlanBell> yes
<daubers> I have no idea which pub is currently in favour in the village, but the swan used to do a very nice steak, last I heard the chef had changed though so might be different now
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son is part of a select team of year 5s that have been asked to come together today and design the Olympic Stadium...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thought we'd have a bit further on by now.
<AlanBell> good to see they are getting some real expertise in
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - although it is going to take a *lot* of Lego.
<AlanBell> I am still awaiting my callup for the olympics
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntorch? :)
<daubers> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=50112714
<MartijnVdS> dear internets.. PLEASE RESPOND
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.penguinpetes.com/Doomed_to_Obscurity/index.php?strip=0000412.jpg
<DJones> Morning
<JamesTait> Greetings, humans! :D
<mungojerry> o_0 looking at canonical's ubuntu for business PDF and guess what? Properties: Acrobat Distiller 8.2.2 (Macintosh)/Adobe InDesign CS4 (6.0.6)
<mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfooding
<Myrtti> it probably wasn't done inhouse
<mungojerry> maybe, yeah
<screen-x> morning :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> How do i find the wireless card is 802.11 g or 802.11 n ?
<kaushal> I dont see it in lspci
<hoover> good morning
<kaushal> i checked nm-tool also
<mungojerry> kaushal: do you know the model name of the card?
<kaushal> mungojerry: yeah
<screen-x> kaushal: possibly iwlist
<screen-x> popey: were there any interesting oggcamp development over the weekend...........?
<kaushal> 0c:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
<mungojerry> kaushal: iwconfig?
<screen-x> mungojerry: ah, yes I get those two confused
<screen-x> kaushal: but googling for ar5001 suggetsts its a/b/g
<kaushal> screen-x: so its half duplex ?
<kaushal> since full duplex is supported in 802.11 n ?
<kaushal> IEEE 802.11n ?
<popey> screen-x: maybe
<screen-x> popey: :)
<kaushal> screen-x: is there a way to see if its half duplex or full duplex ?
<kaushal> for wireless
<hoover> brb
<popey> wifi is half duplex or simplex
<popey> ^ kaushal
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so full duplex is addressed in 802.11n right
<popey> not quite, but kinda
<popey> it uses two frequencies, 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so is there a next version after 802.11n ?
<mungojerry> guys, how can i know for sure which driver is being used by a network card?
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11
<kaushal> mungojerry: yes
<kaushal> sudo lspci -s address -vvv
<kaushal> ^ mungojerry
<popey> mungojerry: click network manager and choose connection info
<mungojerry> kaushal: address?
<popey> it tells you the driver in the dialog box
<kaushal> popey: command line ?
<popey> kaushal: pardon?
<kaushal> I mean about mungojerry query
<mungojerry> popey: it's on a remote machine running redhat :(
<mungojerry> kaushal: i don't see the module listed in the output from the command
<popey> mungojerry: details dude, details :)
<kaushal> mungojerry: sudo lspci -s 09:00.0 -vvv
<kaushal> mungojerry: so run sudo lspci
<popey> er
<kaushal> and then run this command sudo lspci -s 09:00.0 -vvv
<kaushal> so the address 09:00.0 can be seen in the output of sudo lspci
<mungojerry> http://pastebin.com/4TygCWMj
<kaushal> against the Network Controller Card
<mungojerry> expecting to see the tg3 module or other mentioned
<kaushal> mungojerry: the pastebin is incomplete
<mungojerry> kaushal: power dubgeting is the last line
<popey> mungojerry: does it show up in lsmod?
<mungojerry> popey: yes tg3 appears in lsmod, but is not abolsute proof that tg3 is used by that card
<mungojerry> it uses prior knowledge that i suspect it is the tg3 driver.
<mungojerry> the reason i'm asking is that the latest rhel pxe boot fails to boot on a machine due to missing driver
<mungojerry> in the pxe kernel
<popey> mungojerry: is it the only network card in the machine?
<popey> mungojerry: do you have kvm access?
<mungojerry> popey: it's the only net card. i did a dmesg | grep tg3 and that seems conclusive enough i think
<mungojerry> tg3: eth0: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex. / tg3: eth0: Flow control is off for TX and off for RX.
<popey> yeah
<popey> i was going to suggest unloading the driver :)
<mungojerry> :O
<mungojerry> :P
<popey> that would be conclusive
<mungojerry> the bug is actually a regression since centos 5.5 worked fine :(
<screen-x> mungojerry: lshw -C net
<screen-x> should specify module= in the capabilities: line
<mungojerry> screen-x: sweet, just installing it
<mungojerry> fantastic
<mungojerry> that's the one
<mungojerry> might help kaushal too :)
<mungojerry> http://pastebin.com/kJ2MgZK8
<kaushal> mungojerry: ok
<ormiret> Elwell: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/FormattingPagesAndDocuments/How_do_I_insert_a_Landscape_page_into_my_(portrait)_document%3F Though here you can ignroe the first half as the Landscape style already exists.
<popey> mine doesnt specify the module on the capabilities line
<screen-x> popey: configuration line?
<mungojerry> popey: does it state driver instead?
<mungojerry> configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes driver=e1000e
<popey> ah yes
<popey> so it does
<popey> driver=forcedeth
<popey> driver=ath5k
<mungojerry> the RH version must be ancient
<popey> alan@mrevo:~/click$ lshw -version
<popey> B.02.14
<screen-x> popey: I misread it initially, and didnt see thet start of configuration line.
<popey> :)
<popey> thanks, useful info
<mungojerry> i liek how there's about 10 commands and they are all nearly right but only one does exactly what you want
<popey> \o/ choice
<mungojerry> man, i'm glad the weekend is over. now i'm back to work i can rest
<mungojerry> and actually sit down for long periods of time only using my brain and fingers to type
<screen-x> mungojerry: heh, I feel a bit like that, though I do enjoy the hectic weekends :)
<mungojerry> screen-x: for me, a good weekend is where i haven't done much.
<mungojerry> this weekend was the opposite. plus baby decided to get a fever during the night, meaning sleep deprivation of 50%
<mungojerry> i don't know how single parents cope. we are both working flat out
<screen-x> mungojerry: I guess I will appreciate tranquility once kids arrive!
<mungojerry> screen-x: yeah, and make the most of lie-ins.
<s-fox> Hello.
<mungojerry> morning
<screen-x> morning s-fox, just in time for elevenses
<s-fox> Hello mungojerry :)
<s-fox> Hello screen-x =)
<s-fox> mmm, food
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: why you in wales?
<popey> davmor2: ireland I believe
<popey> yes, they let her back in!
<davmor2> popey: I think her is still on her way
<davmor2> popey: we got time to put up the barriers before she returns this time :D
<mungojerry> looking at the list of ideas for google SOC. i notice debian are thinking of something similar to launchpad PPAs
 * bigcalm click/clacks noisily
<screen-x> bigcalm: BOFHing?
<mungojerry> bigcalm: IBM keyboard?
<daubers> HAH! Agencies really are borrom feeding scum these days
<daubers> Â£4.5k for 1 role
<screen-x> oh dear
<mungojerry> yeah, best to advertise on jobsite, cwjob and guardian jobs yerself. it's not as if they do much work on the CV fitlering
<daubers> mungojerry: Already have :) They got my details from there and cold called me
<directhex> which agency?
<daubers> recruit360 was the one that just rang
<directhex> IT job?
<mungojerry> once i got sent to a java dev job, when i'm a sysadmin. clearly a mismatch. when i asked to see the copy of my cv they had been given , the agency had inserted a line into my CV that was clearly false
<directhex> mungojerry, this is why you only send CVs as .pdf. if they insist on .doc, they want to lie on your cv
<daubers> directhex: developer type, yes :)
<directhex> daubers, then that agency is a sham. there are a few semi-competent agencies for IT types
<daubers> directhex: It's normally so they can take your contact details out and replace it with theirs so they can't be pulled out of the loop
<directhex> daubers, indeed. but if they want that, you can provide a PDF with that
<BigRedS> yeah, where I used to work we got anonymised CVs from agencies. but if they're that into it there's nothing stopping them editing a pdf, too
<directhex> BigRedS, there's the technical barrier. these aren't wizards
<screen-x> gpg sign it :)
<daubers> directhex: I just supplied CV's with my contact stuff hidden in the meta data bits :) Got a couple of phone calls from people who got my CV from that agency and didn't want to pay the rates
<mungojerry> once i was choosing between 2 jobs.. (back in 2001). one was a dotcom, one was a bank. the agency for the dotcom role got an ex-employee of the bank to cold call me to tell me why i shouldn't work for the bank. i took the bank job and 2 months later the dotcom folded.
<BigRedS> ach, you could've saved them!
<directhex> really though, some agencies aren't awful
<daubers> I see no reason to pay 15% of an annual salary as an agency fee, what they do isn't worth that much
<mungojerry> BigRedS: it was LOLtastic. they had a room full on sun kit they didn't know how to use. they had bought it cheap from boo.com when they folded
<directhex> monarch and huxley are some of the less bad ones
<gord> ubuntu not part of gsoc :(
<gord> shame on google!
<mungojerry> gord: http://askubuntu.com/questions/31064/ubuntu-isnt-on-googles-list-of-summer-of-code-participants
<kazade> morning
<popey> lo
<s-fox> o/
 * kazade is ill :(
<popey> :(
<kazade> popey, you been running my app? ;)
<popey> a bit :)
<kazade> cool :)
<kazade> any weirdness?
<popey> not yet
<popey> dont get to use it much because I'm not at an Ubuntu machine daytime
<kazade> you on WIndows?
 * kazade raises the priority of the Windows port
<bigcalm> Na, TweetDeck is good enough ;)
<kazade> bigcalm, TweetDeck will have more features than mine
<kazade> I'm going for lightweight and elegant ;)
<bigcalm> Good :)
<mungojerry> kazade: do you have a PPA for your app?
 * mungojerry is good at breaking apps
<kazade> mungojerry, it's still way too early for mass testing. Popey has a copy because it was partly his idea :)
<mungojerry> ok :P
<kazade> *popey (capitalize fail)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to change the key repeat rate in windows?
<bigcalm> This new keyboard is horrible slow
<bigcalm> And, hi peeps :)
<kazade> mungojerry, btw #ubuntu-uk == beta testers ;)
<bigcalm> Found it
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<BigRedS> G'morning brobostigon !
<brobostigon> hi BigRedS :)
<BigRedS> hello! How's things?
<brobostigon> BigRedS:  massive headache, dry throat, back pain. and you?
<BigRedS> generally aching from carrying boxes all weekend, but otherwise pretty good
<BigRedS> what've you been up to to end up like that?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i have been up to nothing,
<mungojerry> it's lunchtime, so it must be my hour of eating and trying to break unity/natty
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> hehe,
 * BigRedS doesn't need to try
<Pendulum> s/trying to break/breaking ?
<brobostigon> i am on gnome-shell on natty, and other than gpu lockup's, it hasnt broken proper, in a while now.
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> that is my natty bugbear,
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i have the 945g  - is 945gm the laptop version?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i am presuming so, as i am on an eeepc.
<mungojerry> ah, i was gonna try natty on my eee
<mungojerry> just noticed that the banshee systray control is gone and launcher doesn't have any features for playing/stopping music yet :S
<mungojerry> beta 1 in 10 days :P
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> test with the kernel bryce gave?
<popey> comment #5 and #8
<brobostigon> popey: i did, the system wouldnt boot at all, and frooze just in mid boot.
<popey> you might want to leave a comment to that effect
<mungojerry> :P
<brobostigon> i will do, yes, i only managed to test tht kernel late last night.
 * mungojerry whips out his eee for some reformatting
<mungojerry> firefox has serious issues: open 50 tabs..1Gb resident RAM usage. close 49 tabs... 900MB resident RAM usage
<brobostigon> sometimes it doesnt happen for days, and then it happens really often, its very weird,
<BigRedS> I think weird memory usage is something of a Mozilla trademark
<X3N> mm firefox rc is running really nicely
<davmor2> mungojerry: that's because FF the instance is still running so the memory is still in use for cache purposes,  if you close the one window and open it again it'll free up loads.  Well Known issue :)
<X3N> aww they haven't fixed the resizeable dialog boxes
<screen-x> The upcoming samsung 900 series laptops have 5xYes ports apparently http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/pc-peripherals/notebook-computers/thin-and-light/NP900X3A-A01UK/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification
<directhex> damn, i need a yes hub then
<mungojerry> davmor2: yes, it's annoyed me for a long time since i rarely restart the whole app. thought they might have got round to fixing in ff4
<screen-x> mungojerry: my gmail __tab_ is using 470mb
<mungojerry> screen-x: wow, you can run thunderbird on less
<screen-x> yah, but I wouldn't want to ;-)
<mungojerry> there seems to be a habit lately across the computing world to make computers less usable. firefox joined the game too with missing status bar and missing RSS icon. fortunately there's add-ons for that
<screen-x> mungojerry: I really like the chromium status bar, its there exactly as long as you need it, but doesn't take up space when you don't need it.
<mungojerry> don't really like chromium as much for some reason
<jgjones_> Hmm
<jgjones_> I was looking thru some old CD's and came across Darwinia
<jgjones_> which was a decent game.
<jgjones_> And looked up their site to see if they're around and happily they are.
<jgjones_> but noticed that they have opensourced Darwinia and Multiwina - it's not free open source, you have to purchase it
<directhex> they did that with uplink too
<jgjones_> Be nice to see a linux version of Multiwinia like there is with Darwinia
<jgjones_> Anyway, have anyone got or played with an Android Honeycomb tablet?
<jgjones_> Looking at getting a tablet
<mungojerry> jgjones_: aybe they shoudl get it into the humble indie bundle
<screen-x> what for jgjones_? (not sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested..)
<jgjones_> Number of reasons - but one of the biggest use would be for video calling (something I do all the time)
<jgjones_> Taking notes
<jgjones_> quick access for surfing etc while on the move (I still don't like netbooks)
<screen-x> jgjones_: hand written, or tapped?
<jgjones_> screen-x, both
<directhex> i'd consider one, if i didn't think tablets were pointless and android was sucky
<jgjones_> finger-writing is fine
<screen-x> jgjones_: I find it much harder than using a stylus
<jgjones_> I had the chance to use an iPad and it was quite useful, but I felt rather restricted with it. I would consider the iPad 2 and root it.
 * brobostigon would like like to try a tablet with QNX.
<jgjones_> screen-x, you can get stylus that work on tablets.
<jgjones_> directhex, Android isn't perfect, but I find it easier to work with than iOS.
<directhex> brobostigon, rim?
<jgjones_> anyway video calling is the biggest use though. Another use I would use for tablets is for use as a captioned relay
<brobostigon> directhex: yes, i tried QNX  few years ago now, and was really impressed.
 * mungojerry doesn't remember when he last used a webcam or made a video call
<directhex> brobostigon, i can't think of a worse os for a battery-constrained device though
<jgjones_> Captioned relay - alternative to text/video relay - you call the relay, and talk on phone normally, but all replies can be heard, but you get the replies captioned on a display
<mungojerry> afaik the touchscreens on tablets don't work well with stylus - correct me if i'm wrong
<brobostigon> directhex: yes, you maybe right.
<jgjones_> mungojerry, I'm deaf - so I use sign language - thus I use video calling a lot :-)
<mungojerry> jgjones_: do you use a real VC too?
<mungojerry> i mean dedicated VC system
<jgjones_> VC?
<mungojerry> videconf
<mungojerry> like tandberg, polycom
<jgjones_> oh
<screen-x> jgjones_: so you need a tablet with a stand...
<jgjones_> No
<jgjones_> mungojerry, too expensive - however I used to have Polycom VC software
<jgjones_> Still have it actually.
<mungojerry> jgjones_: i think it's possible to make a direct video call with ekiga to one of those devices
<jgjones_> screen-x, yup, a foldable stand, or a case that can be used as a stand.
<mungojerry> last employer used tandberg vc and 50 inch screens - really nice
<jgjones_> mungojerry, you can - but video codecs tend to be an issue.
<jgjones_> Best VC system I used was made by LifeSize
<jgjones_> mungojerry, HD video conf is very nice
<jgjones_> I'll get it if I succeed in my job application this Friday
<screen-x> jgjones_: got an interview?
<jgjones_> Sort of.
<screen-x> Cool :)
<jgjones_> Go into a shop, hand over Â£2, get a piece of paper with a number.
<jgjones_> If successful, I'll be employed as a millionaire playboy.
<screen-x> haha
<jgjones_> ;-)
<mungojerry> i have long discussions with people about the odds of winning the lottery
<DJones> mungojerry: Its 50:50, You either will or you won't :)
<mungojerry> i start the argument by proposing that it is impossible.
<screen-x> mungojerry: I was always taught that the lottery is a tax for the mathematically challenged
<jgjones_> You have better chances of getting hit by a rock from outer space, so I'm betting on either winning or getting hit by a rock.
<jgjones_> mungojerry, you should aruge that people should use the number 1,2,3,4,5,6 :-) People always say it's impossible and silly and doesn't accept that they have an equal chance of coming up as any other numbers.
<directhex> screen-x, you could say the same about insurance.
<mungojerry> the lottery plays on the idea that "see, somebody won it, could have been me", when humans can't comprehend the unlikelyhood of 1 in 15million odds
<screen-x> directhex: except insurance is a legal requirement
<directhex> screen-x, some insurances are
<screen-x> directhex: and the otherones I don't have. With the exception of house insusrance, but thats only because of the large debt attachted to it.
<directhex> most houses don't fall down
<screen-x> directhex: I'd say electrical fire is the most likely catastrophe.
<screen-x> directhex: though we've already had one break in :(
<directhex> are you insured against earthquakes?
<mungojerry> buildings iinsurance is compulsory, not contents insurance
<screen-x> directhex: no, I think "Acts of God" are excluded
<directhex> insurance is gambling, no matter how you dress it up
<mungojerry> i am insured aganist earthquakes by virtue of living in teh uk
<screen-x> directhex: yah, but its gambling against loss rather than gain.
<daubers> mungojerry: I tend to enter the lottery on weeks when I see something I desperatley want but can't afford. I'm happy to pay a pound for a slightly higher chance of owning that thing :)
<daubers> like the replica light cycles
<daubers> entered the lottery that week :)
<screen-x> daubers: but if you saved all those pound coins up, you could buy a box of cornettos
<mungojerry> mmm cornettos
<daubers> screen-x: Still not a light cycle
<daubers> screen-x: and since it's like 5/6 times a year, it would take a lot of saving to get to the $300,000 those bikes went for
<screen-x> daubers: hence the realistic savings target
<mungojerry> daubers: but the odds you are hoping in are so ridiculously small, if you considered the chances of other 1 in 15m odds actually happening to you, you would never go out...in fact...even in your house it would be dangerous
<BigRedS> Aren't there smaller prizes with substantially higher odds in the lottery?
<BigRedS> I don't know, I've never paid it much attention at all, but people seem to keep winning not-that-much
<daubers> mungojerry: Indeed, but it's slightl better odds than I had to start with.  It's only ever for things that will come up once in a lifetime
<mungojerry> i wonder if anyone has done a study on the death rates of jackpot winners
<mungojerry> 100% of course...but
<mungojerry> premature death..
<daubers> mungojerry: Might be 99% if you take in account the ones that decide to freeze themselves
<mungojerry> i heard that bankrupty rates are higher too among lottery winners
<mungojerry> i still have no idea how sarah ferguson got into so much debt...it was millions i think
<daubers> That doesn't surprise me, when you have mroe money than sense you lose perspective of what it's worth
<Pendulum> I know some people who won a Â£100k or something at one point. They'd spunked it away in I think 2 years
<daubers> If I won that now, it'd be a house deposit
<popey> I'd buy a mac
<popey> and live in it
<daubers> popey: With that amount of money you could buy a mac AND a chupa chup lolley
<popey> yay!
<popey> chupa chups!
<mungojerry> i know a live who lives in a mac
<dwatkins> I'd buy a cheap house and get a bit of cash each month with the rent :D
<mungojerry> he's a flasher
<Pendulum> daubers: they owned a house. TBH, I don't know where the money went :-/
<daubers> Buying houses is hard at the moment :(
<mungojerry> a lot of premiership footballers seem to have gambling issues
<daubers> silly mortgage lenders wanting 25-30% deposits
<ging> selling them is a lot harder
<mungojerry> because 30k a week isn't enough
<screen-x> ging: yeah
<directhex> i'd pay off most of my debts with that moolah.
<daubers> ging: Bit of a vicious circle, it's hard to sell because it's hard to buy
<daubers> having spoken to a few estate agents over the few weeks, the  number of people who're after a quick sale is almost everyone selling :)
<ging> daubers yeah but i dont just mean it's hard to find a buyer i mean it's hard to  get the sale done there is just so much pointless paperwork
<mungojerry> Ging, yeah that sucks
<daubers> ging: Meh, the missus deals with the paperwork, she's the one with the legal training
<ging> i accepted an offer on my flat 6 month ago and they've still not exchanged yet
<mungojerry> i even employed the same solicitor firm as my seller in order to get it moved through quicker - made no difference
<daubers> ging: That's a bit shocking... I'd harass the agent some more
<ging> daubers: i have been, i'm not sure if my solicitor sucks or if they other solicitor is being overly picky with the paperwork
<mungojerry> recently i bought a house from my sister and sold my house to my other sister. no other people in the chain- still took ages
<screen-x> mungojerry: keeping it in the family..
<mungojerry> yep
<ging> mungojerry: may not been other buyers involved but presumable there was atleast 3 mortgage lenders involved
<mungojerry> my first house i bought from my bruv too
<ging> the mortgage lenders demand a lot of the paperwork
<mungojerry> Ging, the hold up was just due to general faffing around by the solicitors
<mungojerry> and they go on holiday without passing on work to other colleagues to do in the mean time
<mungojerry> and complete lack of communication between solicitors
 * hamitron has bought some shares
<hamitron> no house for me atm ;)
<mungojerry> in which compa?
<ging> well i have 2 flat and 2 sets of bills at the moment
<hamitron> a few
<hamitron> well, several
<mungojerry> my ARM shares fell 20% due to an earthquake
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> mine have averaged about 25% increase over 14 months
<davmor2> mungojerry: don't put your arm over a fault line is the lesson to be learnt here I think
<directhex> it's a curious indirect issue
<directhex> lcd manufacture is damaged by the earthquake, which means fewer devices out of japan in general.
<mungojerry> i think  toshiba and samsung have closed their LCD factories for a bit
<mungojerry> yep
<mungojerry> but 20% is OTT
<mungojerry> but the market is not wise to these things
<directhex> so whilst the japanese don't make any real quantities of arm chips, they aren't making devices to consume them
<hamitron> omfg
<hamitron> 3.1gb update download for WoW?
 * brobostigon shares his chocolate buttons with everyone.
<hamitron> :D
 * mungojerry is munching on 31p sainsburys value chocolate bar
<daubers> oooh... good time to buy shares then
 * brobostigon wonders if he really should be watching countdown.
<directhex> hamitron, sounds chunky. do they have textures to make the game look as good as a 2004 release yet?
 * mungojerry is tidying up old user accounts because nobody else will do it
<mungojerry> directhex: if WOW is 2004, then minecraft must be...1986?
<directhex> mungojerry, to an extent
<directhex> mungojerry, a high res texture pack brings it into the 90s
<brobostigon> yay, i got the one of the countdown maths puzzles in the time, and right, :)
<hamitron> meh
<hamitron> blizard merged WoW accounts to Battle.Net when?
<mungojerry> i need to buy  5 or 6 HP printers and i'm discovering that the toner costs the same as the old printer toner but only for 50% of the pages ... rip off britain
<brobostigon> mungojerry: as my dad said the other day, after buying a set of cartridges, you could have almost bought a new printer or the cost.
<directhex> hamitron, years ago?
<hamitron> ok ;)
<hamitron> chrome isn't working well with the website either :/
<brobostigon> for the *
<hamitron> that or it is broken
<directhex> (March 20, 2009)
<mungojerry> one of my fb friends says he got an android tablet for Â£79 from maplins today
<mungojerry> wonder if maplins is one of popey's special trigger words
<popey> :)
<popey> no, but "popey" is
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> apparently special offer in liverpool street new branch
<ging> was it this http://www.maplin.co.uk/slate-5-inch-android-touch-tablet-506985 ?
<popey> it will be crap
<popey> i saw one in there at the weekend
<mungojerry> he hasn't updated his status,..prob playing with it
<popey> haha they have lots of B-Grade ones too
<mungojerry> might be b grade http://www.maplin.co.uk/7inch-android-2.1-scroll-tablet-506956?ordercode=B60NG
<mungojerry> what is B-grade ? returned/opened/refurb stock?
<mungojerry> AKA ebuyer A grade
<mungojerry> B-Grade includes used and unused returned products, end of line, slightly marked or refurbished products.
<popey> which says they probably get a lot sent back :)
<popey> also
<popey> 3 hour battery
<ging> popey: i was thinking that
<popey> "The high-resolution, extra bright colour screen is perfect whether you are watching a movie or browsing the web."
<popey> "Resolution 800 x 480 pixels"
<popey> riiiiight
 * mungojerry might prefer a nook
<ging> that was high in 2002
 * mungojerry has an eee pc
<mungojerry> 640x480
<mungojerry> no actually 800x480 :P
<directhex> you can buy a crummy 7" android tablet at NEXT, let alone maplins
<brobostigon> 1024:600, is mine, perfectly resonable really.
<popey> mungojerry: 701?
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> i broke the golden rule of early adoption by necessity
<mungojerry> never again
<popey> i had a 701, upgraded to 900, nice little devices
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> i used to sit in the curry house waiting for my curry with it
<popey> using the stock xandros install
<popey> which I didnt find that bad
<brobostigon> and boost about it here.:)
<mungojerry> except i generally want my hardware to serve me longer
<mungojerry> the specs and battery are a bit poo
<brobostigon> boast*
<mungojerry> ubuntu boots quickly too
<brobostigon> agreed.
<mungojerry> i should probably just install command-line debian on it
<mungojerry> since i mainly use it for ssh
<brobostigon> mungojerry: connecting to wifi is easy in cli. :)
<mungojerry> i really want a super quick boot
<mungojerry> that is all
<brobostigon> mungojerry: thats how i do most of my installs, use thealternate installer, do cli install, and build from there.
<daubers> popey: My missus uses your old 701 on the train to Oxford and back every day
<mungojerry> daubers: new battery?
<daubers> mungojerry: Yup, longer life on while I was at it
 * screen-x did have a 701 but it got nicked :(
<brobostigon> screen-x: thats sad, :(
<popey> haha
 * mungojerry hopes popey typed that in a wrong window
<popey> 15:41:40 < daubers> popey: My missus uses your old 701 on the train to Oxford and back every day
<popey> lag
<mungojerry> oh :P
<daubers> :)
<daubers> It's quite good for typing up her lecture notes
<popey> whats it running?
<daubers> Ubuntu..... something... lucid I think
<mungojerry> i installed eclipse on mine the other day
<daubers> last one with unity that contained the big desktop widget full of the apps
<daubers> mungojerry: Ooof
<dutchie> mungojerry: has it started up yet?
 * mungojerry has 2gb of ram
<popey> nice
<screen-x> daubers: unity?
<popey> mine only has 512MB
<mungojerry> the ssd is slow thogh
<daubers> screen-x: yeah, previous version of unity
<brobostigon> mine has 1gb.
<screen-x> daubers: netbook launcher?
<daubers> screen-x: Thats the welly
<mungojerry> hmm. just bought a site licence for Â£15k that allows resale to students. do i (1) give it to the students (2) charge the students a nominal fee of Â£10 to recoup costs
<screen-x> hmm, either I'm going deaf or my headphones are knackered. I can't here any base unless I press them into my ears with fingers.
<screen-x> mungojerry: hmm snap
<mungojerry> lol
<screen-x> mungojerry: wassitfor?
<mungojerry> methematica
<mungojerry> woops mathematica..
<daubers> mungojerry: University?
<mungojerry> yes
<daubers> mungojerry: If so, give it to them!!!!!
<mungojerry> :P
<screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, give it to them
<mungojerry> we offer it currently via termina lserver
<daubers> mungojerry: My life would have been much easier if I'd have been given a copy by the uni instead of paying Â£80 odd for the 12month student version
<dutchie> speaking as a maths student, give it to them :)
<mungojerry> a lot of them are an ungrateful bunch though and give us hassle if its free
<mungojerry> if there's a nominal fee then they might take more seriously
<daubers> mungojerry: Or they'll just pirate it like 70%odd of my classmates did
<mungojerry> :(
<screen-x> mungojerry: bung it on an intranet server somewhere listed as unsupported.
<screen-x> point anyone who asks at said page
<mungojerry> however any money recouped would be spent on IT
<mungojerry> since it's straight outta my budget
<mungojerry> 1000 students...10% take-up = Â£1000
<screen-x> mungojerry: give them ocatave then :p
<daubers> octave is really manky compared to mathematica
<screen-x> yeah :(
<daubers> It's the one piece of massivley expensive software I consider to be worth the money
<mungojerry> daubers: i wonder if most students realise that
<daubers> mungojerry: Probably not
<mungojerry> maple don't let us give it to undergrads
<daubers> Didn't like maple
<mungojerry> but their licence is cheaper
<daubers> I really did like mathematica, the manual was probably worth Â£50 on it's own as a maths text book
<daubers> the fact it works linux native too was a godsend
<mungojerry> although rhel broke 3d drivers on intel for v5.x
<mungojerry> which covers about 3yrs
<mungojerry> at least on launchpad some bugs get fixed...try RH bugzilla
<jacobw> afternoon
<brobostigon> good afternoon jacobw
<X3N> wow it's 4pm already
<brobostigon> 16:11
<jacobw> thanks for approving me X3N
 * jacobw prods webchat-testing 
 * webchat-testing squirms
<screen-x> it's just me in another window ;-)
<X3N> np jacobw
<bigcalm> Can we cope with clones?
<DJones> screen-x: Is that the round window or the square window
<screen-x> DJones: its chrome, so slightly rounded
<DJones> bigcalm: Obi Wan will sort the clones out
<screen-x> I was just wondering what happens when you click the chat link on ubuntu-uk.org
<webchat-testing> seems to work pretty well
<X3N> it's via the freenode chat so it should work fine with multiple instances
<screen-x> thats enough sock-puppeting
<mungojerry> this is the maplins Â£79 tab: http://www.maplin.co.uk/7inch-android-2.1-scroll-tablet-510662
<mungojerry> looks quite..."solid"
<popey> ah yes, thats the one I saw on the shelf
<mungojerry> this is not the droid you are looking for..
<mungojerry> not bad for attaching to your toilet roll holder though
<mungojerry> remember that jogglers were supposed to be Â£99
 * jacobw makes a note to suggest these for work
<popey> and running mains power to the loo
<DJones> mungojerry: http://www.coupondepot.co.uk/deal-Maplin-Electronics-%C2%A350-off-7-inch-Android-2-1-Scroll-Touch-Tablet%5E162740.aspx
<DJones> That offer has expired, but I wonder if they're still discounting it
<jacobw> its always sad how these things aren't marketed as mobile computing power but as a novel way to update your facebook status
<brobostigon> with android 2.1, thats dead old.
<DJones> jacobw: That reminds me, happy 5th birthday twitter
<popey> its on pre-order
<popey> so basically not available
<mungojerry> twitter is the reason why half the world now clicks on urls without knowing the desitnation domain :(
<mungojerry> popey: that's cos all of their stocks are in liv st getting sold to geeks who like bargains
<mungojerry> lol 40 in stock
<DJones> mungojerry: The other half just click on a url shortened address & still don't know where they're going :)
 * mungojerry notes that adding a + on good url shortneing services gives a preview of the site
<popey> what about bad url shortnening services?
<popey> like popey.me :)
<jacobw> is that real?
<popey> http://popey.me/eZomJz
<popey> yes
<popey> heh, it does too
<popey> http://popey.me/eZomJz+
<popey> neat
<mungojerry> http://bit.ly/eZomJz+
<mungojerry> :P
<popey> handy
<bigcalm> Might add that to my cuth.eu shortener
<mungojerry> use it when i can on desktop, but if ur on amobile, you just click don't you?
<brobostigon> silly three, why did they send me two lots of sims,
<mungojerry> how do url shortening services support themselves financially?
<livingdaylight> guys, how stable is the latest Ubuntu? I'm itching to try it already
<bigcalm> It'll be out next month :)
<brobostigon> with the gpulockup errors i amgetting, i would say, not stable yet. myself.
<livingdaylight> dayam, I feel like trying something new today. I tried Pardus earlier - Beautiful - best kde distro I@m sure... Ubuntu could learn something from its installer - very polished - BUT, Network Manager is broken, lol at least for my laptop its no good, so, back hunting
<mungojerry> livingdaylight: have you also tried alternative network managers?
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: iwould try a persistant live usb. and have a play, no-risk playing.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: +1
<livingdaylight> mungojerry, they didn't seem to have much of a choice in their repos. Someone said to use wicd ,but its not in their repos.
<mungojerry> ah
<brobostigon> !info wicd natty
<mungojerry> that's the beauty of debian/ubuntu loads of packages.
<lubotu3> wicd (source: wicd): wired and wireless network manager - metapackage. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.0+ds1-6 (natty), package size 7 kB, installed size 56 kB
<mungojerry> livingdaylight: you prefer kde to gnome?
<livingdaylight> mungojerry, always been a gnome user, but Pardus persuaded me that I might be able to live with kde too
<brobostigon> although i am mostly happy atthe moment with gnome-shell on natty.
<livingdaylight> Pardus just didn't persuade me it was ready for my laptop yet, lol
<mungojerry> depends what you want out of a distro i guess
<BigRedS> it sounds, so far, like the sort of thing i'd expect from a pre-release distro
<BigRedS> admittedly, further from release than it is, but that makes little odds
<brobostigon> and every so often, Xorg deciding to spontaniously restart itself, is rather weird.:(
<mungojerry> downloading natty to test on my eee - gotta gets those bugs squashed
<brobostigon> definatly.
<brobostigon> :)
<livingdaylight> Anyone try Suse recently ? opensuse11.4 recently out.
<BigRedS> I keep hearing that it's humane now, but I am still managing to avoid it
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, they look to have done some nice things in this release.
<popey> Achievement Unlocked; Never used SUSE!
<livingdaylight> popey, huh? :P
<popey> just being silly :)
<daubers> popey: BBC use SUSE all over the place
<BigRedS> they also use flash...
<mungojerry> ugh unity launcher isn't hiding when apps are maximised today
<mungojerry> usb-creator has taken 15 mins to create a natty live usb, that can't be right
<livingdaylight> Libre Office and OpenOffice are the same? except the name?
<brobostigon> i just heard, gnome-shell's calendar, will be indepedent from evolution, so you wont need to mess with evolution togets calendar notifications, i like.
<X3N> It kind of already is as the calendar only uses evolution data server
<X3N> but yeah, that does sound good
<mungojerry> data server used to have a bug that ate all of your memory - it's fixed now, but made me hate it for a long time
 * mungojerry just wrote his first software centre review 
<mungojerry> notice a lot of ubuntu-uk people have too
<gord> everyone should do that! or at least rate
<hamitron> livingdaylight: basically, yes. just developed by 2 seperate groups
<gord> it would be really cool if all the good apps had a rating
<livingdaylight> hamitron, I must have been sleeping, lol... catching up on this OO.o fork.
<livingdaylight> soneill, now we support the new group instead of Oracle?
<hamitron> it really isn't long enough ago, to see them have many differences
<hamitron> ubuntu is going libreoffice I believe
<brobostigon> hamitron: yes. we are.
<hamitron> just a shame about the name ;)
<hamitron> sounds like a bunch of hippies have grabbed it and made it impossible to convince a boss to change to it
<soneill> /ignore livingdaylight ;)
<livingdaylight> soneill, :o
<livingdaylight> i get myself in trouble with autocomplete, huh?
<soneill> giggle
<livingdaylight> :p
<livingdaylight> hamitron, its a bit of a mouth-full i agree.
<livingdaylight> but when "OpenOffice" is taken, what's left?
<livingdaylight> Linux Office Suite? ;)
<bigcalm> LibreOffice
<bigcalm> !
<bigcalm> Rar rar rar
 * DJones wonders whether bigcalm has just become a cheerleader
<livingdaylight> for some reason bigcalm has me think of Butterkist
<bigcalm> Wassat?
<bigcalm> It is like Sunkist?
<popey> Butterkist Butterkist RAR RAR RAR!
<popey> Hey! Crusader! Have you any NUTS!
<popey> etc
 * popey suspects he and livingdaylight are of the same vintage
<livingdaylight> popey, remembers the ads ;)
 * bigcalm goes looking
<bigcalm> Oh, the popcorn
<livingdaylight> ^^
<bigcalm> Bad for my teeth :(
<bigcalm> I think that's why I've blocked it from my memory
<popey> Muhahaha, just got 38 points for "zit" in scrabble :)
<HazRPG> afternoon everyone :)
<brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<HazRPG> how do I find out what my device ID is for my burner
<HazRPG> apparently I need to run this command "cdrecord dev=0,6,0 speed=8 -v -multi -audio taudio01.wav"
<HazRPG> but I don't know what to change dev=0,6,0 to
<directhex> HazRPG, the debian fork of cdrecord will accept /dev nodes
<HazRPG> directhex: ah nice one :)
<gord> heh i remember having to do that kinda crazy stuff a year ago, do we not have a gui for that?
<HazRPG> I wish we did :/
<HazRPG> there's no easier way that I can find for grabbing out the info from .cdi and then burning it other than using cdirip and cdrecord
<gord> tried the kde burning software? i remember that being pretty great
<gord> tbh i haven't burnt a cd/dvd since usb ubuntu installs...
<HazRPG> K3b ?
<HazRPG> tried... didn't work - coasted about 5 discs so far :/
<HazRPG> hmm, cdrecord didn't like those parameters apparently... hang on
<screen-x> HazRPG: tried wodim?
<HazRPG> that's the same application as far as I'm aware :P
<HazRPG> I just changed it to dev=/dev/scd0 instead of just /dev/scd0, and removed -v
<HazRPG> all good so far...
<screen-x> HazRPG: ahh, ;-)
<HazRPG> typing in cdrecord, shows wodim as outputs... so I'm guessing they are at least :P
<HazRPG> well its burned now... lets see if this does the trick...
<HazRPG> hmm, seems I've coasted another disc :/
<HazRPG> did I do something wrong here :S
<brobostigon> :(
<gregoryfenton> is the audio file itself ok?
<screen-x> HazRPG: are you burning a wav directly to the cd and expecting to play in cd player?
<HazRPG> screen-x: trying to burn a dreamcast ISO
<HazRPG> CDI* even
<directhex> doesn't boot with the dreamcast boot loader i forget the name of? pretty sure you won't burn a self-boot with normal tools
<HazRPG> I only downloaded stuff I actually own, thing is my disc is all the way in Saudi with my dad :/
<directhex> the one with the spinning moose logo
<HazRPG> directhex: Utopia, and yeah I'm currently looking at him :/
<HazRPG> didn't self-boot, so went with the boot loader option
<HazRPG> neither worked
<directhex> linux burn tools can rarely represent the subchannel data needed for copy protection schemes
<gregoryfenton> Do you have a patched version of cdrecord (as at http://poptix.net/CDI-HOWTO.txt )?
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: according to some people on ubuntu forums, it doesn't need to be patched
<gregoryfenton> disclaimer: I in no way endorse the burning of anything to infringe copyright. I just googled.
<HazRPG> I think I figured out what I did wrong though... I didn't set the data part as -xa1
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: don't worry, neither do I...
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: also, that's the .txt I'm reading too :)
<HazRPG> hmm, is it possible its because I'm not finalising the disc?
<gregoryfenton> does -cdi do anything on the command line?
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: -cdi by itself, or...?
<gregoryfenton> no, your existing command and then -cdi (switch to cdi format from the cdrecord man page)
<HazRPG> no I haven't
<MartijnVdS> \o
<screen-x> evening MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> noswaith dda MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS has a delicious Ceasar salad
<HazRPG> evening MartijnVdS
<livingdaylight> anyone have/use a linksys wrt 54gs router? Looking to upgrade firmware and reading here that there are a few alternatives, and I'm wondering which is best. There's Alchemy and Talisman by Seasoft and another named DD-~WRT just for starters
<gregoryfenton> hazrpg have you tried using nero linux to burn it?
<gregoryfenton> livingdaylight i use DD-WRT on my router, it works great.
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: I haven't no, but I haven't used nero for anything in over 10 years
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: i use openwrt.
<livingdaylight> gregoryfenton, ok... just looking at talisman here
<livingdaylight> brobostigon, you got a linksys too? :)
<livingdaylight> choices choices
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: a wrt54gl. yes.
<livingdaylight> mines' the gs version
<livingdaylight> wrt54gs
<gregoryfenton> livingdaylight - try them all, flashing is easy and you can see which you prefer.
<HazRPG> you'd think linux would support multi-tracked discs though :(
<brobostigon> gregoryfenton: good idea, :)
<gregoryfenton> brobostigon I can but try
<livingdaylight> I really don't want to try them all. I've just got Linksys default firmware since years now, and been having issues lately, probably due to ailing laptop, but thought if I can up the power of the router then I'd be happy. I don't need any other fancy bits
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: I'm just looking at cdrecord --help, and I've noticed the -cdi you mentioned, wouldn't that override the -xa1? Plus the cdirip changed the tracks to .wav and .iso
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Really useful development app  Parasite - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/really-useful-development-app-parasite/
<MartijnVdS> ooh, BBC4 looks interesting tonight
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: elaborate? please.
<Mez> Les Pounder?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vl3h1 + http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yb59m
<Mez> anyone here know who that is?
<MartijnVdS> Mez: brother of Quarter Pounder?
<Mez> Dunno, apparently my connections come via here... popey ?
<Mez> (you're a connection to both of us)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting,
<popey> he is running ucubed
<livingdaylight> gregoryfenton, Do I pick either VXWorks-killer or /prep? http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database
<livingdaylight> brobostigon, hi, do you know, one resets router to factory setting before pointing router to .bin file?
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: i cant remember, it was along time  ago, when i did the install, i would suggest looking atthe instructions, onrespective fw website and or wiki,
<Mez> popey: know who he is?
<gord> geez ubuntu makes it hard to convert things to mp3 these days
<gord> actually no i just can't figure out how to at all - i thought installing gstreamer packages would do it but no
<KrimZon> everything I've tried has used lame
<gord> oh well, there is an ac3 converting support at least - i guess my phone understands that
<brobostigon> iwould be tempted to try ffmpeg to do conversion.
<brobostigon> which i have successfully used before.
<gord> vlc said libavcodec didn't have support, which means neither will ffmpeg
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> \o/ medibuntu
<MartijnVdS> it has proper encoders for non-free/evil formats
<MartijnVdS> also.. banshee encodes to mp3 just fine (my phone)
<gord> oh well, *moves MortalKombaaaaaaaaaat.m4a over to his phone to set as his new alarm*
<Jibadeeha> gord, Sound Converter
<gord> Jibadeeha, yes sound converter could not do it either
<revmarkp> thanks for the welcome!
<brobostigon> noswaith dda revmarkp
<revmarkp>  i knew i'd find some strange jargon if i started using irc. Just had to look that up! good evening to you too.
<brobostigon> :)
<revmarkp> see i'm learning stuff already
<brobostigon> sorry,
<brobostigon> revmarkp: i am one of the chaps and gals that manage ubuntu-cym.
<revmarkp> cool. do they do ubuntu-devonian (ooo-arrr)?
<brobostigon> hehe
<popey> Mez: 18:14:53 < popey> he is running ucubed
<Myrtti> boo flu go away come back another day
 * brobostigon has the flu he thinks here, allthe sympoms.
<brobostigon> symptoms?
<brobostigon> *
<jgjones> gord, Sound Converter? No idea what format you're converting from
<brobostigon> :(
<gregoryfenton> Guys.. is it possible to either a) rename a virtual eth (eg eth0:0) to eth1 or b) make sshd output on a specific interface (eg no matter where the connection originates, reply on eth0:0)?
<HazRPG> hmm virtualbox won't let me install windows 7 on it :/
<Myrtti> brobostigon: run of the mill cough. congested nose, sneezing, popping ears and light temperature
<HazRPG> keeps saying I should insert the win7 disc because the install appears corrupt - but I haven't installed it :S (also says it could be due to hardware change ?)
<Myrtti> minor headache is there too, also muscle ache but I don't know if it's the flu or the fact I fell on my knee on Saturday
<Myrtti> and the headache could be because I've not worn me glasses today
<Myrtti> I don't mind feeling miserable but I dont want to give the bug to mum, she's in a condition bad enough already that they've canceled her treatments
<Myrtti> well rescheduled until further notice
<brobostigon> Myrtti: headache, back pain,hip pain, sore and or very dry throat, light headed'ness. here.
<Myrtti> there's mycoplasm going around here in Finland
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i think my mum has already caught it from me, has been feeling awful all day, aswell.
<brobostigon> Myrtti: mycoplasm?
<Myrtti> a nasty bug that needs special attention as no normal antibiotics work on it, can cause prolonged flu symptomps
<brobostigon> Myrtti: so me having immuno-suppresants is maybe not a good idea,if its the same.
<Mez> popey: that means nothing to me :D
<popey> there is this thing called google
<brobostigon> Myrtti: my eczema was infected bt somethingsimiler last year, and it was really bad.
<Myrtti> brobostigon: human immune system is fairly defenseless against mycoplasmas anyway
<HazRPG> Lunchie: sup dude :)
<Lunchie> HazRPG: heya dude in woodsy wid phil
<brobostigon> Myrtti: ohdear, hmm. let me make an appointment with my doctor then, because my eczema has had aninfection aswell.
<HazRPG> Lunchie: cool, you using your phone or laptop?
<AlanBell> Mez: he was at oggcamp liverpool
<popey> Mez: is that video _really_ appropriate for planet ubuntu?
<popey> psst: no.
<Mez> popey: due to the language?
<popey> you have to ask me?
<HazRPG> am I missing something?
<Myrtti> no
<dutchie> Myrtti: +1
<Myrtti> move along folks, nothing to see here
 * brobostigon goes tow watch tv.
<Myrtti> look, a kitten
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD8yLILzU2w
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Japan Disaster - http://www.sourceguru.net/japan-disaster/
<Lunchie> HazRPG: iPod and free wifi
<HazRPG> Lunchie: haha nice
<HazRPG> Lunchie: Tell everyone I said hi. Who's about (other than Phil)?
<Mez> popey: mind if I /msg you in your role as CC member?
<andylockran> howdy all
<Lunchie> HazRPG: did u see that ludicrous display last night (from phil)
<HazRPG> Lunchie: I knew he'd say that
<Mez> wow, ubuntu CC are active
<Lunchie> HazRPG: lol
<HazRPG> Lunchie: your barely online anymore... how's college going?
<Lunchie> HazRPG: good man just got loaded cask
<HazRPG> ah
<NeoSilky> hello :)
<HazRPG> Lunchie: you'll have to pull Dave about how the LUG is doing, since you see him about most
<Lunchie> HazRPG: loving doing connect4 in c++ ATM
<HazRPG> Lunchie: haha nice, we did noughts and crosses when we were doing that
<popey> Mez: sure
<NeoSilky> so what do all you guys do in your free time?
<bigcalm> Play MineCraft
<HazRPG> go to the pub
<brobostigon> play openarena and tuxracer
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<bigcalm> Take pain killers
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :P
<gregoryfenton> jet around the world as a fedora ambassador :D
<HazRPG> write websites from time to time... think about the next big money making thing... friends... meddling with electronics... that kinda stuff
<brobostigon> wrting car controls.
<gregoryfenton> gizza job brob:  while (!crashed){try_not_to_crash()} call_the_AA();
<NeoSilky> best open source fps games\ games anyway? :P
<jgjones_> How would I set xchat to reidentify with nickserv for nicks after a reconnection?
<jgjones_> it seems my BT line keep reconnecting
<gregoryfenton> jgjones http://docs.zetaboards.com/irc/xchat#auto-identifyingrun it with
<gregoryfenton> jgjones http://docs.zetaboards.com/irc/xchat#auto-identifying sorry
<jgjones_> gregoryfenton, thanks - I already do that for when starting up Xchat
<jgjones_> but it seems that when I get disconnected and reconnected automatically while xchat is running, it doesn't reidentify my nick.
<Mez> gregoryfenton: ooh, zetaboards :D I used to work for them :D
<Mez> (volunteer)
<gregoryfenton> jgjones /set net_auto_reconnect on
<gregoryfenton> mez :)
<jgjones> gregoryfenton, thanks, let's see if that sort it out, am fed up with seeing jgjones_, jgjones__, jgjones___ etc :)
<gregoryfenton> it should be sticky across xchat sessions too
<MartijnVdS> woo! working fingerprint auth on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> that's the last device (that didn't work before)
<zleap> is there a page for oggcamp 2011 yet
<popey> no
<popey> and yes
<popey> more no than yes
<daubers> 7heh :)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> we need some events like this in Paignton,
<zleap> hint
 * bigcalm chuckles
<bigcalm> popey: this keyboard is amazingly clicky. Did your friend ever order any?
<popey> not yet bigcalm
<bigcalm> Glad I didn't wait then ;)
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Tell him to get the supplier to double check orders before they ship though. They sent me a 104 key US layout :(
 * brobostigon puts bbc4 on , to watch the prog MartijnVdS suggested earlier.
<bigcalm> Micro Men?
 * bigcalm is guessing without checking
<zeratas> this is my first time on IRC is this the right place?
<bigcalm> zeratas: This is indeed an IRC channel
<zeratas> ok i was told to come here for some technical help lol
<bigcalm> zeratas: the 'right place' is open to discussion though :)
<zeratas> lol
<bigcalm> zeratas: what's up?
<zeratas> i recently have been having some problems with my wireless.. I'm using ubuntu 10.10 and recently my wireless has been acting weird. I could SEE wireless networks but couldnt actually connect to them
<brobostigon> bigcalm: everything and nothing. it is called.
<zeratas> I went to launchpad to see if they could help and when i did what they said, it made it worse lol, now my wireless doesnt work at all
<bigcalm> brobostigon: no idea :)
<zeratas> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-nettool/+question/149292
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 149292 in scrollkeeper (Ubuntu) "package nautilus 1:2.20.0-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato (dup-of: 218049)" [Undecided,New]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 218049 in scrollkeeper (Ubuntu) "scrollkeeper-update failed with "corrupted double-linked list" during update-manager update " [Medium,Won't fix]
<bigcalm> Ah. So far I haven't had any problems with wifi, so maybe somebody else will be able to help :)
<zeratas> thats the original discussion from launchpad that made it act all wonky
<zeratas> ha k
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it is new.
<zeratas> I tried resetting what he had me do on there but it seems that didnt change anything
<zeratas> thank god in my dorm theres an ethernet connection lol
<zeratas> so whos the king of this irc channel
<popey> we have no kings or queens
<popey> just loads of serfs
<Azelphur> can I be the placeholder king?
<MartijnVdS> yes master popey
<MartijnVdS> :P
 * popey puts Azelphur on the throne
<Azelphur> woot
<Seeker`> no queens? *cough*Gary*cough*
<Azelphur> If gary is princess can I resign?
<Azelphur> or queen, rather
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't you want a pony?
<Azelphur> true, I could do with the pony
<mgdm> s/resign/abdicate/
<zeratas> Oh!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
<zeratas>       HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
<zeratas> Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
<zeratas>       is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power
<zeratas>       derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical  aquatic ceremony.
<popey> you'll fit in
 * AlanBell goes to update the governance documents to add swords
<zeratas> lol
<Myrtti> I just have an emp gun
<Myrtti> with hello kitty stickers on it.
<AlanBell> do you have a pond?
 * Myrtti looks outside
<Myrtti> does a huge pool of snow melting water count?
<zeratas> how much snow? is it yellow?
<Myrtti> good two feet, there are some yellow patches
<zeratas> should be fine
<Myrtti> I do have a cast iron bathtub
<Myrtti> anyway
<zeratas> is it seasoned?
<Myrtti> with white enamel
<AlanBell> you know you are a bit of a geek when you wonder about the effect of induced currents caused by firing an EMP cannon whilst in a cast iron bathtub
<zeratas> connect a radio and a lightbulb to the bathtub lol
<Myrtti> I bet I'd cause a good amount of havoc anywhere in this apartment, with the central heating on this 14 storey building
<Myrtti> doesn't need to be in bathroom :-D
<zeratas> haha
<Myrtti> anywya, getting late here, ttfn
<zeratas> adios
<popey> in firefox 4...
<popey> open any random website that has links on it
<popey> hover over link, observe url displayed in bottom left of screen
<popey> press CTRL+F to search the page, hover over link again
<popey> observe url moves to the bottom right of the screen
<popey> ?
<hamitron> I hope that can be turned off :/
<popey> i am guessing its a bug
<ali1234> probably a side affect of writing the whole UI in a bizarro version of html
<popey> hence the "?"
<ali1234> cos we all know how well html works when you insert a new element into a page... right?
<hamitron> is ff 4.0 any good?
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> you're better off using chrome, than a bad copy of chrome
<ali1234> (or chromium)
<hamitron> I was using ff 3.6, switched to chrome and thought it was better.... now switched back to ff 3.6 and feel it is better again
<ali1234> 3.6 is better than chromium
<ali1234> except for the speed and memory usage
<ali1234> but then chromium is pretty bad for memory usage too
<hamitron> especially with loads of tabs
<hamitron> ;)
 * brobostigon uses chromium everyday, and is very happy.
<brobostigon> on my eeepc.
<hamitron> I change daily atm :/
<popey> Gah!
 * mgdm uses Chrome on basically everything
<popey> unity, right click "Rubbish bin" see menu item "Empty Trash.."
<popey> why can we not get this right!
<zeratas> i use ie6
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I wonder what life would be like, giving up the GUI for a month
<gregoryfenton> install a ubuntu server on a VM
<gregoryfenton> you'll soon find out
<hamitron> I mena properly remove it
<hamitron> mean*
<gregoryfenton> server has no gui
<ali1234> wrong. but w/e
<hamitron> I reckon I'd end up talking on here all day
<mgdm> I can be mostly productive without a GUI
<gregoryfenton> here's me running a ubuntu server, it has no gui.  I can install X if I choose but it is by no means needed
<mgdm> which is my much of my day is spent with a full-screen terminal on my 24" monitor, running vim :)
<zeratas> i just started using ubuntu as my sole OS
<hamitron> I may give it a go
<zeratas> prob cause my windows crashed and i dont have a dvd to re-install it
<gregoryfenton> welcome to the revolution zeratas
<hamitron> no gui for a month :)
<zeratas> haha
<zeratas> when i get dvd's to burn an iso of windows im debating on whether im gonna go back or not SUCH A HARD DECISION
<ali1234> i just realised something
<hamitron> ali1234: ?
<brobostigon> ali1234: that we rock?
<zeratas> i saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geicko
<hamitron> shame on him if he has taken this long to work that out :/
 * brobostigon prods hamitron 
 * hamitron glares
<ali1234> people who complain about consoles not having a mouse to play FPS are the same people who gush about console text editors like vi and emacs
<hamitron> no mouse since when?
<brobostigon> hamitron: i reckoned you commented on what i said,
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's true, I gush about both
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> and it occured to me that editing code without a mouse pointer is somewhat like playing a FPS game on keyboard only: completely stupid
<hamitron> brobostigon: yeh :)
 * brobostigon prods hamitron some more.
<hamitron> brobostigon: is I no right?
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> anyway this is what i thought of while considering "what would life be like without a GUI" : it would be like playing quake on a joypad: really really horrible
<brobostigon> hamitron: i hadnt just realised it, i knew it all along,
<hamitron> but why not use a mouse on the console?
<brobostigon> hamitron: nopoint.
<ali1234> because it only has the most basic of functionality
<brobostigon> imho.
<hamitron> technically, the mouse is a "point" ;)
<mgdm> copy/paste on a no-X terminal is quite handy
<hamitron> I must admit, I do like using a mouse to highlight stuff
<hamitron> and gdm takes little memory
<brobostigon> hamitron: why have the graphical need, to point and click on something, in a space that has no such thing?
<hamitron> or gpm
<hamitron> or something
<mgdm> brobostigon: try doing copy/paste in a terminal without a mouse :)
<hamitron> when editing files ofc :)
<zeratas> ctrl+shift+click
<mgdm> hamitron: well if you're editing a file in a sensible editor (like, for example, Vim...) you can highlight things fairly easily without a mouse
<brobostigon> mgdm: maybe.fair point.
<mgdm> but, in a shell, not really
<ali1234> because the alternative is to memorize the keyboard shortcuts for efficiantly moving the cursor (which are different in every single program) or to press the up/down/left/right arrows a million times when you want to move around and edit things
<hamitron> can you play video files on the terminal?
<ali1234> yeah
<brobostigon> hamitron: yes, vlc does terminal playback. insie terminal.
<ali1234> mplayer is better on terminal
<shauno> used to use aalib for that.  funny, but useless :)
<hamitron> it use svgalib or something?
<brobostigon> ali1234: either works,yes, :)
<ali1234> uses whatever you want
<ali1234> mplayer command line usage is a lot simpler than vlc... a *lot*
<brobostigon> ali1234: i havent tried with mplayer, only vlc,but i knew mplayer did it.
<hamitron> I just wasn't sure if it needed X
<brobostigon> hamitron: no,it doesnt,
<hamitron> I knew could display jpeg fine
<popey> mplayer -vo caca <file>
<hamitron> so my last hurdles are yahoo mail, and games
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> hamitron: mutt ?
<hamitron> mutt supports yahoo?
<brobostigon> hamitron: its supports pop3 and imap.
<hamitron> I am cheap and have a free account
<hamitron> :/
<popey> imap.next.mail.yahoo.com
<ali1234> so i just went on commandlinefu
<ali1234> and they are being cute by saying "click here to grep the archive" in their search box
<brobostigon> hamitron: yahoo used to provide free acess to pop3.
<ali1234> but unfortunately their search engine does not support regular expressions
<ali1234> so it's not greap
<popey> :)
<ali1234> so nice try, but sorry, WRONG
<popey> hamitron: so you're "the guy" who still uses yahoo mail
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I would move, only too lazy to change all account details
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> you can't setup a forwarding rule in ymail?
<hamitron> says I need a yahoo plus account
<hamitron> I used something called ypop (or something like that) a while ago
<hamitron> but it never worked fully
<hamitron> think it was because I had so much to download
<popey> fetchyahoo - Retrieve mail from Yahoo!'s webmail service
<popey>  FetchYahoo is a Perl script that downloads mail from a Yahoo! webmail account to a local mail spool, an mbox file, or to procmail.
<hamitron> maybe worth a bash again
<popey> worth a punt
<hamitron> over 3000 mails all sorted into folders...
<hamitron> the pain /o\
<Azelphur> hamitron: can't you set forwarding for free?
<hamitron> Azelphur: no
<hamitron> my parents can on yahoo.co.uk
<hamitron> :s
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I've hated yahoo ever since they stole my domain and did other such nasty to me
<hamitron> it is just the lack of pop3 or imap access that ugs me with them
<Azelphur> also they published all my info when I was paying for protection :D
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> yahoo has always been lame
<Azelphur> yahoo are cool like that
<hamitron> gmail weren't about when I started though
<Azelphur> hamitron: gmail can import yahoo apparently
<Azelphur> and gmail supports imap/pop/everything
<ali1234> even back when it was run by two guys
<hamitron> I have my gmail forwarding to yahoo atm
<Azelphur> hamitron: so add your yahoo box to your gmail
<Azelphur> gmail can pull from yahoo
<Azelphur> aha
<Azelphur> hamitron: change your location setting to yahoo asia to enable forwarding
<Azelphur> you can thank me later :D
<hamitron> seriously?
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> yup
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> hax.
<hamitron> tbh
<hamitron> I should really just setup stuff to go to a new address
<Azelphur> hamitron: that's what I do, I have a slightly ridiculous forwarding chain
<hamitron> same
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> got a tree of forwarding, about 5 deep
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> same xD
<hamitron> is it safer to use an email address with your own domain to sign in with you think?
<Azelphur> huh?
<hamitron> my main worry has always been, if yahoo decide to charge for the service
<hamitron> or if google do, etc.
<Azelphur> yea I worry about companies doing irritating things too that's why I own a domain
<Azelphur> that way if company A annoys me I use something else
<Azelphur> atm I use my own domain with google apps
<hamitron> same
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> it forwards to my gmail one
<hamitron> then it forwards to my yahoo ;)
<hamitron> but it is a pain changing the account details for everything
<hamitron> all games, places I order from, forums, etc
<Azelphur> haha, I did that when I changed my name from CShadowRun...big job
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/970827-check-my-setup-before-i-buy.html cooling :3
<hamitron> I keep wanting to change from hamitron, since someone else has started using it
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> I see
<hamitron> I've never done water cooling
<hamitron> I curse at the price of a Â£10 cooler
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> personally, I see no point in overclocking your comp until it is starting to feel slow
<Azelphur> there's some guys on that forum that have my CPU running at 5.2ghz :o
<hamitron> your comp is plenty....
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm mean to my computer, I quite often expect it to play 3 games at the same time
<Azelphur> on top of whatever else I might be doing
<hamitron> 3 of what? ;/
<Azelphur> 3 is normal, I've done 6 before :D
<hamitron> eve online or soemthing?
<hamitron> something*
<Azelphur> hamitron: 3 is usually TF2 + WoW waiting in LFG Queue + Minecraft with my automagical free stuff machine
<Azelphur> I did 6 wow's at the same time for a few months at one point
<hamitron> I still think you have plenty for both them arrangements
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> WoW is low end
<hamitron> mc is just a memory hog
<Azelphur> hamitron: my pidgin setup seems to be evil too, because I have it open a new window for absolutely everything
<Azelphur> so I have 100+ windows open, that seems to make compiz not that happy
<hamitron> so don't!
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> "so don't" isn't a fix :D
<Azelphur> but yea, apart from that I've always wanted to build myself a really nice PC :)
<hamitron> imo, cheaper to build a 2nd comp, then use synergy
<ali1234> more reliable too
<Azelphur> I used to do that
<Azelphur> ali1234: I DISPUTE YOUR CLAIMS!
<Azelphur> synergy was buggy as crap that's why I stopped doing it
 * hamitron is using synergy now
<Azelphur> although the maintenance fork on synergy probably changed that now :)
<hamitron> well, synergy plus ;)
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> hamitron: it's synergy again now they merged back into the original
<hamitron> oh
<Azelphur> the dev came back out of the ether
<hamitron> well, I not updated
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> but yea back when I used synergy it was really buggy and would dc for no reason and clipboard sync wouldn't work
<Azelphur> and it was very frustrating, so I switched to separate X
<Azelphur> and got a whole new bucket of bugs :(
<hamitron> tbh, I do all my work on 1 PC, so not tried clipboard sync
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> silly ralink bug in my Eee
<hamitron> I ahve main PC, and 3 slaves
<Azelphur> I really want proper cross-card multi display for Linux
<ali1234> for the money you'll get better performance from multiple normal computers than 1 super powered gaming rig
<Azelphur> Then I'll be happy as a clam
<ali1234> assuming multiboxing some MMORPG that is
<dwatkins> bug 496093
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 496093 in linux-backports-modules-2.6.32 (Ubuntu Lucid) "[lucid] rt2860 frequently fails to connect to mixed mode WPA/WPA2 secured wireless networks" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496093
<ali1234> and assuming you'll be running linux
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea but it's not the only thing I do
<Azelphur> I just pick totally random stuff and expect my computer to be able to handle it while doing bunches of other totally random stuff
<brobostigon> dwatkins: sothe fix it suggests, doesnt chane things?
<ali1234> multiple commonodity PCs wins in just about every scenario these days
<Azelphur> and I'd prefer it done as fast as possible rather than at a cost effective speed :)
<hamitron> I really want to have xen with 2 graphics cards, each dedicated to 1 OS.... so each OS has proper hardware acceleration
<ali1234> yay i made up a word "commonodity"
<Azelphur> haha
<dwatkins> brobostigon: the power command is not supported on my wifi adapter, still reading it all
<Azelphur> hamitron: can you do that?
<hamitron> yes
<AlanBell> ali1234: that deserves to be a word
<Azelphur> hamitron: does that mean I could sling another GFX card in my machine and game in a VM? lol
<brobostigon> !lucid
<hamitron> with the high end workstation nvidia cards
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, I was just considering upgrading from the LTS release
<Azelphur> oh, the quadro stuff
<hamitron> with parallels workstation, yes
<hamitron> there is something on the nvidia site
<ali1234> seems to me that there is some kind of glass ceiling on linux 3d, at least with nvidia drivers
<brobostigon> dwatkins: try an live usb, or similer, no risk test, with persistance, incase you need to add anything.
<hamitron> but each card cost Â£800, and I needed a supported workstation for another Â£2000 on top of that
<hamitron> ali1234: what makes you say that?
<dwatkins> brobostigon: good plan, it's infuriatibg :(
<ali1234> hamitron: because even the most simple scenes (like for example draw 1 triangle) cannot get above about 30fps even with the most powerful nvidia card
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i know the feeling, i have a bug i have found in natty, with libdrm/xorg, that justdoesnt seem towant to be tracked down, because people keep on handing the bug around to different bug numbers.
<hamitron> ali1234: I assume you are exagerating? ;)
<ali1234> hamitron: somewhat
<hamitron> because I get 40 fps ;)
<Azelphur> I've seen a decent performance boost with wine gaming going from my 8800GT to the 570GTX
<Azelphur> I play TF2 on all max now, I couldn't do that on the 8800
<hamitron> I not tried linux gaming beyond my geforce 6600gt
<Azelphur> and it can handle multiple games fine now, that just wasn't happening before
<Azelphur> TF2+wow = fall over and die
<ali1234> so what's your max framerate with only 1 copy of wow running and no compiz?
<ali1234> and what is same with compiz?
<Azelphur> dunno, I'll try now
<hamitron> does running stuff under wine count?
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> or try this:
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, it's a shame as the array.org kernel worked perfectly, so this all makes ubuntu look bad
<ali1234> run some game that doesn't use 3d acceleration at all under compiz and "not compiz"
<hamitron> I'll try on my geforce 6, hopefully beat Azelphur ;D
<ali1234> eg quake benchmark mode
<ali1234> compare framerates
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> now do the same thing with a graphics card which is supposedly "slow"
<ali1234> eg any intel graphics
<hamitron> or geforce 2 go?
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> ali1234: I can compare the 8800GT and the 570 side by side they are both in the box
<Azelphur> so I'll do it all
<ali1234> something that doesn't use nvidia driver
<Azelphur> :p
<ali1234> last time i tried stuff like this my atom + gma 950 actually beat my P4 + gf6200
<hamitron> gf6200 is not really any good ;/
<ali1234> and gma 950 is?
<hamitron> gma is newer
<hamitron> isn't it?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i remember that kernel when i did my initialresearch about linux on eeepc. i never needed it on my eeepc 900 here. everything worked strsight out fine, which did surprise me, and xorg did work right on debian sid, and ubuntu maverick, untill natty.
<ali1234> gma 950 is 2007
<hamitron> but tbh, Azelphur's test to see if a better gpu is better, would mean more?
<ali1234> so yeah 3 years newer
<hamitron> you are comparing different drivers
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> point is people say "lol intel sucks you need nvidia"
<hamitron> I don't agree
<ali1234> but this isn't actually true at all
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> even though it is largely because nvidias drivers totally suck
<hamitron> the new intel graphics are behind the new nvidia gaming chips ofc
<ali1234> (yeah, that's what my test tests)
<ali1234> no point buying a $500 GPU if the drivers suck so bad that it runs like a IGP
<hamitron> the gf6200 is IGP ;/
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> 6100 and 6150 is IGP
<Azelphur> lol I think something is up with my 8800 tbh
<Azelphur> I'm getting 2fps
<ali1234> but here is the thing: the 6200 actually is more powerful than the gma 950
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> compiz off xD
<ali1234> the problem is the drivers completely blow
<hamitron> it would be interesting to see what modern gaming hardware could do, with decent software
<hamitron> :)
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, Ubuntu used to work great, then somewhere along the line the wifi driver got broken again, so I'm now downloading 10.10 with my Mac... ;)
<hamitron> both for gfx drivers AND slimlineness of OS
<brobostigon> dwatkins: more to the point, i have everyway of getting all the information needed, and would be happy to do it, as roughly  twice a day, the gpu just hangs/locks up, and only a forced restart will straighten it out. that is also a major bug.
<ali1234> hamitron: there was a demo video released recently of some PC game with pretty much photorealistic graphics
<hamitron> but it isn't in nvidia's interests to make their cards sold, run better.... they make more money selling you the upgrade
<brobostigon> dwatkins: it should work better, the newer kernel, as more of the drivers are oss, and inside the kernel, nd dont need to be installed sepertly.
<ali1234> it was released same time as the new unreal demo, and the new crysis engine demo, which both sucked
<ali1234> anyone got link?
<hamitron> ali1234: with normal drivers?
<ali1234> depends how you define "normal"
<ali1234> i mean sure they probably were the "normal" drivers
<hamitron> the ones we are given :)
<Azelphur> I'm typing blind :D
<ali1234> if you're making a multimillion dollar game that is going to make people want to buy a new video card, then the video card manufacturers tend to be more responsive to bug reports
<Azelphur> My 8800GT is doing like 2FPS haha
<Azelphur> I can see it slowly scanning down the display drawing each line :D
<Azelphur> gonna restart X to clear this \o/
<hamitron> my voodoo2 runs faster
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> thanks brobostigon - I chose 10.04 because I thought that being well established that version would be less likely to have issues with my Eee
<ali1234> hamitron: here's the unreal demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS67BwPfFY&feature=player_embedded
<ali1234> it's not very good IMO
<hamitron> I can't view youtube :/
<ali1234> and this is the cryengine 3 demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNWj8HmWwQ&feature=related
<ali1234> also nothing particularly amazing
<brobostigon> dwatkins: and then maybe try newer kernels ontop from th kernel teams ppa.aswell.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: also remember, it is almost a year behind now, so you are missing a years worth of development,
<ali1234> ah here's the game with actually good graphics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBu_tH8muq0&feature=relmfu
<ali1234> battlefield 3
<Seeker`> anyone know a lot about mpeg transport streams?
<ali1234> Seeker`: i know a bit
<Seeker`> when I play back a TS from a DVB recorder, at advert breaks the sound drops for a second, which I assume is it changing format in some way. How on earth do I detect these?
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> good question :)
<ali1234> i reported a bug dealing with aspect ratio changes in ad breaks
<Seeker`> Ideally I would be able to process the file and generate a list of frames or timestamps where it happens
<Seeker`> nono, not aspect ratio
<Seeker`> :P
<ali1234> it's the same thing - change in format
<ali1234> mythtv can detect these changes
<Seeker`> the audio thing happens whether or not there is an aspect ratio
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> nn brob
<ali1234> and gstreamer and mplayer can too since i bug reported it
<brobostigon> night hamitron
<Seeker`> ali1234: link to the bug report in mplayer?
<hamitron> right, coffee time
<hamitron> brain need
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> bug 521526
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 521526 in gnome-mplayer (Ubuntu) "gnome-mplayer does not correctly handle aspect ratio changes in mpeg streams" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521526
<ali1234> bug 520091
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 520091 in totem (Ubuntu) "Totem does not correctly handle aspect ratio changes in mpeg streams" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520091
<Azelphur> ali1234 / hamitron pretty much same fps on both cards
<Azelphur> compiz off yeilds a little FPS boost but nothing special
<ali1234> and there you go :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I was pretty sure when I upgraded my bottleneck was CPU though
<Azelphur> games would always 100% a core on my q6600, they don't on my i7
<Seeker`> ali1234: thanks
<Seeker`> ali1234: can't find the svn commit associated with the fix :(
<ali1234> Seeker`: well i dunno about that
<ali1234> Seeker`: but look at the mplayer log
<ali1234> mplayer -v
<ali1234> it will tell you if the format changes
<ali1234> then you can grep source for that message
<ali1234> or just make your list based on the mplayer log
<ali1234> or look at how mythtv does it
<hamitron> Azelphur: what about glxgears?
<Seeker`> ali1234: no idea where mythtv does it. But if i can find where mplayer does it, I'll have a better idea of where to start looking
<Azelphur> hamitron: glxgears = "lol I'll just freeze"
<Azelphur> multi X \o/
<ali1234> quality software
<Azelphur> ^
<hamitron> how do i disable vertical sync for glxgears?
<hamitron> is there a standard native linux gaming benchmark used?
<ali1234> phoronix probably has something but it's nearly impossible to understand how it works
<hamitron> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_2639_flip&num=1
<ali1234> lol
<hamitron> had to share
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> considering that nouveau project doesn't even accept bug reports on 3d i have to wonder if that test is even worth anything
<ali1234> i mean i can write a driver that would easily get 100 FPS on any graphics card running any software at all
<ali1234> as long as you don't mind that it always displays a black screen
<hamitron> ah, true
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> but hey, that's phoronix for you
<ali1234> pretty much every report they make is like this
<ali1234> i notice there's no screenshots to prove that nouveau isn't just displaying a black screen
<ali1234> "The most telling part is one comment in that thread that points out that  nouveau doesn't support things like AA/AF but the tests include them.  So while the binary nvidia driver is rendering everything beautifully  with all available features, the open source version is pushing out a  haggard shell of a render. That would give it a substancial speed boost.  Benchmarks need to be like-for-like."
<ali1234> comment in phoronix forums
<ali1234> so... yeah
<ali1234> completely worthless unscientific test
<ali1234> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?38442-Nouveau-s-OpenGL-Performance-Approaches-The-NVIDIA-Driver&p=185299#post185299
<hamitron> well, I just assumed it was right
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I was hopeful for all of a few mins
<hamitron> then you ruined it
<hamitron> ;D
<ali1234> nouveau still don't even accept bug reports on 3d
<ali1234> i think i already said that
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> after the first page the comments degenerates into ATI trolling :/
<hamitron> fun while it lasted
<hamitron> personally I can't see gaming ever been great in linux, till there are native games
<hamitron> so I always hope it will come
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> all the good PC games already run on linux
<ali1234> (of which there are about 3)
<hamitron> oh I like loads of games
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and until they all run, plus the high end ones run natively, still more to do
<hamitron> although, with older windows games now not working on newer versions of windows, that may well attract some to linux
<Seeker`> argh, this is why I hate trying to get involved in projects; people never answer any damn questions
<ali1234> that won't work
<Seeker`> spent 2 hours searching for stuff and found nothing
<ali1234> Seeker`: read the source code
<Seeker`> ali1234: where do I start? Any idea how many LoC there are in mythtv?
<ali1234> whats a LoC?
<popey> Line of Code
<Seeker`> line of code
<ali1234> oh
<popey> apt-get source mythtv
<popey> wc -l
<ali1234> no, no idea at all
<popey> :)
<Seeker`> ali1234: one file alone has 4689 lines.
<ali1234> that's ... not much code...
<Seeker`> thats one file
<Seeker`> there are many such large files
<ali1234> mythcommflag = 13k lines
<hamitron> hmmm, MS Windows is catching Ubuntu
<Seeker`> ali1234: the .cpp files in libmythtv are 115l lines
<Seeker`> *115k
<ali1234> so? mythcommflag is all you care about
<Seeker`> no, it isn't
<Seeker`> what I want to do is try to add a new detection method, one that is based on the audio (which mythcommflag currently doesn't do)
<Seeker`> I need to understand how I can work out where the audio format in the files change
<ali1234> i doubt it is possible actually
<ali1234> if the audio sample rate changed then you could
<ali1234> i think what you actually need is a stream analyzer if you want to do it that way
<ali1234> eg dvbsnoop
<ali1234> not sure if that is even possible
<ali1234> if you just want to do it based on volume then that's more likely to work
<Azelphur> yay lost diamond pick thanks to minecraft downtime :(
<Seeker`> ali1234: no, it isn't more likely to work
<ali1234> there must be something you can catch eg if the adverts are in stereo and then the program is in DTS or something
<ali1234> unless the DTS signal is encoded into the stereo signal
<Azelphur> hmm, I'm trying to patch kupfer with this https://bugs.launchpad.net/kupfer/+bug/614796/comments/8
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 614796 in kupfer "Support for separate X screens" [Wishlist,New]
<Azelphur> I grabbed the source from git and ran patch -p0 < 0001-Use-one-Kupfer-D-Bus-service-per-DISPLAY.patch
<Azelphur> but it doesn't appear to work :(
 * Azelphur pokes
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-22
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> wibble
<Azelphur> http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/funny-facebook-fails-how-can-so-much-idiot-fit-in-one-man.jpg
<hamitron> lmao
<hamitron> nice Azelphur ;/
<hamitron> anyone here used virtualbox on a linux host for gaming?
<directhex> hamitron: dead loss. no useful 3d. and crap for old games too, due to lack of dos gues drivers
<hamitron> k, ty
<shauno> having great fun trying to find a usb cable for this stupid gp2x wiz.  I've a funny feeling it'll be seeing a soldering iron soon
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/iMYVkAKY anyone know how to fix this?
<ali1234> what is this i don't even
<directhex> git clone?
<Azelphur> ali1234: trying to help kupfer get multi X support in, https://bugs.launchpad.net/kupfer/+bug/614796/comments/12
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 614796 in kupfer "Support for separate X screens" [Wishlist,New]
<Azelphur> I need to grab from that repo but no luck :(
<directhex> pretty sure you need clone, not fetch
<Azelphur> clone just puts it in a directory called dbusdisplay:dbusdisplay
<ali1234> why is this a problem
<Azelphur> because I need to download the fix to test it but I can't find a link on github.com and the command he gave me don't work?
<ali1234> he assumes you already have checked out the standard repo
<Azelphur> oh so I run that after checking out the standard repo
<ali1234> git clone git://github.com/engla/kupfer.git
<ali1234> cd kupfer*
<Azelphur> yup, already doing it :)
<Azelphur> sorted
<ali1234> git checkout -b mybranch origin/dbusdisplay
<ali1234> something like that anyway
<Azelphur> lolbroke :D
<HazRPG> hi all
<shauno> o/
<HazRPG> shauno: how's it going dude?
<HazRPG> I should really learn to not let the internet distract me :/
<shauno> timestamp fail man
<HazRPG> heh, nah... I got distracted and only noticed you'd actually said something till afterwards
<HazRPG> shauno: not sure if its your thing, but recently stumbled upon this: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02202/
<shauno> it usually would be, but that one was boring :p
<HazRPG> Really? I thought it was good.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<shauno> 'lo bob
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<phonex01> hello guys
<HazRPG> sup dude
<phonex01> is there a good package for widgets on ubuntu desktop ? can show CPU cores and ram ans such things ?
<phonex01> i need attractive one
<phonex01> !
<Azelphur> phonex01: screenlets
<slackthumbz> byobu
<HazRPG> erm... screenlets... also, there's some stuff for gnome panels too
<slackthumbz> embedded terminal + byobu
<HazRPG> that works too
<slackthumbz> looks cool as hell
<slackthumbz> ;)
<HazRPG> I use byobu for general stuff :P
<phonex01> guys when i connect my laptop to datashow all compiz effetcs stop
<phonex01> why ?
<MartijnVdS> what is datashow?
<MartijnVdS> you mean a projector?
<slackthumbz> ^
<phonex01> ya ya
<phonex01> projector
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: what kind of graphics card do you have?
<slackthumbz> if you're trying to use the projector as a secondary monitor it can cause issues with compiz, I've found similar problems on multi-monitor setups
<phonex01> ATI ?
<phonex01> HD 3470
<slackthumbz> http://ompldr.org/vN3d2ag
<slackthumbz> byobu :)
<phonex01> it is not secodry
<HazRPG> slackthumbz: ooo, what you using for your menu?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: which driver are you using? the free one or the fglrx one?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: fglrx is more prone to break
<HazRPG> slackthumbz: or is that just an invisible gnome panel?
<slackthumbz> AWN
<shauno> gnome's own panels can look pretty sexy when you don't get stupid panel-applets that try to enforce their own background :/
<phonex01> i installed the driver from ATI
<slackthumbz> awn, faenza icons, orta gtk theme
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: that's fglrx, and that's the problem
<ball> If I start an X client and specify a geometry of 192x168-8+8, it seems to be a lot more than 8 pixels away from the right hand edge of the screen.
<ball> ...Is that to leave room for some kind of dock?
<shauno> I think the window borders have some kind of invisible width lately
<ball> Looks more like 128 pixels away from the right-hand edge
<ball> brb battery's flat
<HazRPG> slackthumbz: I did notice it was faenza icons... nice setup though :)
<slackthumbz> ty
<slackthumbz> I've also been building gnome-shell from their gt repository using jhbuild lately. Can't say it's as good as gnome 2.x but it seems to be improving. Haven't tried the latest Unity stuff in the Natty alhpha yet.
<ball> There, that's better.
<knightwise> morning
<slackthumbz> afternoon
<knightwise> hey slackthumbz
<knightwise> how are you today
<slackthumbz> not bad
<slackthumbz> how's it going?
<knightwise> doing fine , working from home today so i get to have my linux laptop along site of me all day long
<slackthumbz> nice, at my office we use debian on the desktop
<slackthumbz> but I'm on holiday atm so it's kind of a moot point. Got my netbook with me
<knightwise> cool , what are you running ?
<slackthumbz> ubuntu 10.10
<knightwise> what netbook ?
<slackthumbz> going to install the 11.04 alpha on a spare partition when I get back to the UK
<slackthumbz> HP Mini
 * knightwise is running 10.10 on his Macbook air
<knightwise> cool , nice little machine that is !
<slackthumbz> :)
<slackthumbz> building gnome-shell from the git repositories at the moment
<slackthumbz> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell#Building
<knightwise> whow :) thats beyond my level of geekery
<slackthumbz> it's surprisingly simple
<slackthumbz> the gnome uys have provided some nice tools to ease the process
<slackthumbz> guys*
<knightwise> i still need to try unity
<slackthumbz> I wasn't fond of the unity build that shipped with 10.10
<slackthumbz> but I've yet to try any of the newer stuff
<knightwise> think 10.4 will be better ,
<knightwise> ?
<slackthumbz> probably, will be interesting to see
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> i'm currently meddling with some command line stuff
<knightwise> alpine , irssi, centerim .. byobu , twidge .. stuff like that
<knightwise> somehow love the command line interface :)
<slackthumbz> CLI is the best, it's been my favourite tool since 1998
<slackthumbz> Don't think I could live without my embedded terminal
<slackthumbz>  http://ompldr.org/vN3d2ag
<knightwise> true slackthumbz
<knightwise> cool , whats the name of that package ?
<slackthumbz> package?
<knightwise> for the embedded terminal you showed me in the screenshot ?
<slackthumbz> ah
<slackthumbz> it's gnome-terminal
<slackthumbz> you use compiz window rules to get rid of the window deocrations and things
<knightwise> aaah thats how you do it
<knightwise> :) i thought it was some kind of live wallpaper
<slackthumbz> nah, pretty simple to set up though
<slackthumbz> http://www.webupd8.org/2009/05/ubuntu-embed-terminal-into-you-desktop.html
<knightwise> hahaha :) very cool !
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning peeps
<slackthumbz> mornin'
<knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer
<knightwise> how are you today
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm well thanks knightwise - and your good self?
<knightwise> doing fine
<knightwise> bit annoyed by my super sensitive touchpad on my macbook air under 10.10
<knightwise> but for the rest, all is well
<slackthumbz> Preferrences->Mouse go to the general tab and adjust the sensitivity there
<knightwise> its not that its to "fast" in responding
<knightwise> but when i just ever so gently touch it with the palm of my hand while typing ...
<slackthumbz> ah
<knightwise> boom .. cursus hops around
<slackthumbz> I hate it when that happens
<knightwise> i did the disable while typing option
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - where will it all end? Samsung F3 1TB (7200RPM) drive Â£37.99 inc. VAT from eBuyer this morning...
<knightwise> oooh
<knightwise> sounds nice
<knightwise> hey daubers how are you today
<daubers> Awake! (honest!)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Totally OT but does anyone have any decent design ideas/templates for invoices or other business docs?
<knightwise> ha :) Ubuntu using grandmother turns 84 today :)
<knightwise> Happy birthday Gran-buntu ! :)
<slackthumbz> :)
<knightwise> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuForGrandma
<knightwise> its an older article , she's switching to 10.10 next week
<knightwise> she's on 9.04 now
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Thats a bit.... open to interpretation as to what is "decent"
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Yep - I'm happy to do the interpreting :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am just after some inspiration really.
<daubers> Heh, ours are all built by filemaker :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - That still going?
<knightwise> try the office live library and steal ideas from there ?
<daubers> Yup, it's not too bad in fairness to it. But it does require OSX
<daubers> and the server bit is a pita
<slackthumbz> I hate filemaker
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: "steal" probably isn't the right word... But I hadn't even looked there tbh - do I need MSO to look at the layouts?
<knightwise> I'm not sure , i think so ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - They have a *very* long Service Agreement I have to agree to. Can't be arsed to read it all.
<knightwise> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/templates-FX101741961.aspx?CTT=97
<daubers> \o/ program no longer leaking file descriptors
<DJones> Morning
<bigcalm> Greetings early Earthlings
<knightwise> hey DJones bigcalm
 * DJones takes bigcalm to AlanBell our new leader/poc/gopher/general dogsbody :)
<DJones> Hi knightwise
<bigcalm> Ah, I was wondering what the official title was going to be
<AlanBell> lizard
<DJones> bigcalm: I think the correct answer is "To be confirmed"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh morning el Presidente
<DJones> AlanBell: Lizard? Where has that come from, but thanks for the reminder, must remember to set my recorder for the new series of V starting this week
<bigcalm> Oh god
<bigcalm> I thought that show had died
<bigcalm> (been canceled)
<AlanBell> http://takemetoyourlizard.blogspot.com/2007/05/where-my-blog-got-its-name.html
<DJones> 2nd series starts on Thursday
<DJones> AlanBell: Makes sense now
<bigcalm> I can't even remember which channel we were watching it on. This is how rememberable the show was :(
<bigcalm> I only watched it for the Firefly crew. Even they couldn't hold it together
<DJones> bigcalm: Probably SyFy channel
<bigcalm> DJones: seems probable
<DJones> I enjoyed it
<bigcalm> I like the premise and the production values. But it was just meh somehow
<bigcalm> Like the 1st ep of Flash Forward was great!
<DJones> I watched the 1st 4 episodes there, and then watched the rest via the web because I couldn't be bothered waiting for it to be broadcast in the uk
<bigcalm> Heh
<DJones> Flashforward started well, slowed down but then got good towards the end
<bigcalm> I will get around to reading the book
<DJones> The one I was disappointed that got cancelled was Jericho, only had about 1.5 series
<bigcalm> Right now we're enjoying Castle. So glad that it's made it to a 3rd series
<DJones> bigcalm: Flashforward book? I've read it, it bears no resemblence to the series but as is usual was much better than the series
<bigcalm> That's what I'm hoping for :)
<hoover> mornin
<hoover> I agree, flashforward had great potential
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<hoover> hey biggie
 * bigcalm ponders having a dubstep day
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't do it! :)
 * BigRedS is having a metal day
<BigRedS> well, morning. Until anybody else gets in...
 * daubers has been driving in with no music the past couple of days, and found it oddly relaxing
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hello :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Hello. How was the ferryman?
<JamesTait> Hello, hello! It's a beautiful day! :D
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: good , just home
<knightwise> hey czajkowski ! Morning
<knightwise> great appearance on UUPC btw
<czajkowski> thanks
<knightwise> good talk on RMS too !
<screen-x> morning :)
<n1md4> Good morning
 * Daviey grumbles at czajkowski 
 * czajkowski stuffs Daviey full of banana less grumbling 
<Daviey> yes ma'am.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: bit ahead of themselves http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2011/0322/england_video.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> watcht eh video!
<mungojerry> it seems there is some sort of strike on today at uni
<mungojerry> walked through as many picket lines as possible to wind up the commie newspaper sellers :)
<mungojerry> AKA rent-a-picket
<DJones> mungojerry: It got nmentioned on teh radio, university lecturers on a 24 hour strike over pensions
<screen-x> No trains from cardiff central this morning due to power failure :(
<mungojerry> DJones: it hasn't got much support tbh
 * mungojerry isn't in the union anyway - costs more than my monthly mobile tariff
 * popey sees http://wiki.qemu.org/Google_Summer_of_Code_2011#BeBox_system_emulation and thinks of brobostigon
<s-fox> Hello.
<dogmatic69> o/
<s-fox> o/
<s-fox> How're you?
<dogmatic69> cool and you
<JGJones> czajkowski, rofl at the video :D Ireland was amazing in that match.
<czajkowski> JGJones: aye
<s-fox> fabulous,  stomping around the ubuntu forums dealing with spam dogmatic69 .
<JGJones> Pity about Wales falling apart at the last hurdle.
<s-fox> hmm,  no more spam.  >.<
<popey> o_O
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<s-fox> popey,  That chrome advert you tweetwed was neat =)
 * popey wonders what's going on with the bot
<popey> 10:17:36  * popey sees http://wiki.qemu.org/Google_Summer_of_Code_2011#BeBox_system_emulation and thinks of brobostigon
 * brobostigon wakes up.
 * DJones provides brobostigon with a new alarm clock
<brobostigon> popey: interesting, thank you.
<brobostigon> DJones: i woke up, as popey cameup with soething interesting.
<DJones> Ah
<brobostigon> that will be interesting,
<brobostigon> i need to keep an eye on that.
<JGJones> Just read this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197 -  - Religion going extinct (hmm which remind me, I forgot to do my census...it's still sitting in my intray
<mungojerry> JGJones: england reported 80% christianity last census when the true churchgoing figures are much less. it may be that culture has changed so that people don't go to church if they don't believe.
<JGJones> Bah...10 years to prepare and they have the census available in 56 languages but British Sign Language, an official language of UK isn't listed.
<popey> there is a dvd
<popey> http://help.census.gov.uk/england/help/help-and-information/SupplementaryMaterials/BSLguidanceDVD.html
<JGJones> ah thanks, will pass that onto my friends as they just asked :)
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=census+british+sign+language
<popey> thats how i found it :)
<JGJones> hmm they're asking me about Q18/19
<JGJones> Language = sign language
<JGJones> then 19 - implies speak?
<s-fox> I have BSL level 1 qualification.   I am yet to actually need it for anything.
<JGJones> um...I read and write it very well.
<gord> i wonder why google needs sourceid=chrome in there
<JGJones> but speak it?
<JGJones> s-fox, you haven't met me yet. When you do, you'll need it ;-)
<s-fox> JGJones,  Then it shall be fun :)
 * DJones waits for an incoming livingdaylight asking about kubuntu
<mungojerry> i think that was the last bond film i watched
 * brobostigon just had to explain the whole history of BeOS and the BeBox to someone because of that qemu link.
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can bypass this on EC2? The disk drive for /mnt/ebsimage is not ready yet or not present Continue to wait; or Press S to skip mounting or M for manual recovery
<dogmatic69> that is what "ec2-get-console-output" is saying... so it seems my box is just sitting waiting for input or the drive to mount
<popey> gord: it doesn't "need" it
<popey> gord: i just copy/pasted from my browser
<gord> popey, of course - i didn't mean it like that
<gord> i was just wondering why
<popey> revenue
<gord> google gets the browser id in the http headers
<gord> revenue would make sense... if it wasn't chrome ;)
<gord> an interesting way to embezzle money though
<popey> heh
<screen-x> gord: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/google-tax-cut/google-terminal.html
<mungojerry> like google needs the money...and vodafone for that matter
<mungojerry> are canonical registered in isle of man for tax purposes?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and pretty much all software licenses for major suppliers come via ireland
<popey> one bit of canonical is
<mungojerry> i wouldn't expect they have turned a profit  thoguh
<s-fox> mungojerry,  Google employed 24,400 full-time employees as of December 31, 2010. I am sure they pay them all salaries ;)
<s-fox> So, yes I think they might need money :)
<mungojerry> s-fox: yes but corporate tax avoidance to the tune of $3bn is rather unethical woulnd't you say?
<AlanBell> evasion is unethical, avoidance is good accountancy
<s-fox> I agree with AlanBell .
<mungojerry> evasion is unlawful, avoidance is potentially unethical IMO
<screen-x> somone has to keep DJones in a job..
<AlanBell> however the public sector purchasing licenses for proprietary software which is untaxed in this country is an ethical issue for the public sector
<DJones> screen-x: I don't do tax
<AlanBell> DJones: neither does google
<screen-x> haha
<AlanBell> or Microsoft
<AlanBell> or IBM
<AlanBell> popey: where do SAP/Oracle licenses ship from
<popey> not sure they "ship" from anywhere
<popey> CD/DVDs usually come from Germany
<popey> but most people dont order optical media much anymore, but download instead
<AlanBell> paper licence certificates for IBM stuff used to come from Ireland and the CDs until they went download only (floppys before that I think)
<popey> although that's bizarro
<screen-x> popey: I guess its not so much where the product comes from, but where the entity you send the money to is
<popey> i am not involved in that side
 * popey is just a lowly techy grunt :)
<screen-x> popey: I'm not sure I believe that
 * popey shrugs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Careful popey - I nearly misread grunt... ;-)
<screen-x> \o/ the refresh link in gmail is finally a button, should have been one ages ago.
<bigcalm> So it is
<bigcalm> How quaint
<mungojerry> either twitter is really flaky lately, or hotot has only just started telling me when there's problems..i think it's the latter
<bigcalm> Dubstep day didn't last long. I'm enjoying REM - Lotus for the 1st time in several years
<mungojerry> i rediscovered that sugarcubes sounded much better that bjork solo stuff
<bigcalm> mungojerry: miss-read that as Sugarbabes
 * bigcalm shudders
<mungojerry> heh
<popey> ITYM Sugababes
<popey> :)
 * mungojerry is wearing his redhat t-shirt for work today..what a geek.
<popey> one of the earliest linux screenshots I still have online features the Sugababes :)
<mungojerry> the difference between owning a redhat thsirt and ubuntu one is that i paid for the ubuntu one
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scrot/2004-01-14-000416_1280x960_scrot.png
<mungojerry> is that GAIM?
<bigcalm> Looks like it
<brobostigon> xfce, lookslike.
<popey> yes
<popey> i used to use xfce on debian
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scrot/2005-09-21-224627_1920x1200_scrot.png is fun
<popey> running lots of versions of windows at once under qemu :)
<brobostigon> lol :)
<gord> someone should design a laptop keyboard that never gets warm ever - not a nice feeling on sunny warm days
<bigcalm> You horrible man :P
<mungojerry> linux desktop has come some way since then..although the screenshots look like my desktop from 1999
<mungojerry> ubuntu font made a nice difference actually
<davmor2> popey: man yum  old ;)
<screen-x> grr windguru for iphone is giving a different forecast to windguru.cz for the same model (GFS)
<screen-x> The iphone app doesn't give the time that the  model was run, so I suspect its old data. Shame, as its a more favourable forecast.
<MartijnVdS> popey: Now try again with OS/2 version :)
<MartijnVdS> s
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> I tried to run OS/2 in QEmu once
<MartijnVdS> but it failed
<MartijnVdS> Some 286 opcode that was too hard/impossible to implement :|
<MartijnVdS> (this was OS/2 Warp 3)
<mungojerry> does anyone know how to forward mail from gmail but exclude the spam? apparently it forwards ALL mail.
<screen-x> mungojerry: use a filter
<screen-x> doesnt have: label:spam
<livingdaylight> greetings comrades
<mungojerry> screen-x: forward doesn't allow that option though does it?
<mungojerry> screen-x: think i've got it cheers
<mungojerry> screen-x: however, "Warning: Filter searches containing "label:",  "in:", or "is:" criteria are not recommended, as these criteria will never match incoming mail."
<screen-x> mungojerry: they do match incoming mail, but order is important, and there is no way to reorder filters without modifying them :(
<screen-x> Having said that, I don't know whether the spam label is applied before or after filters..
<mungojerry> screen-x: cheers, got it working :)
<mungojerry> brobostigon: does unity on the eee run in 2d or 3d?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: runs inboth here.
<mungojerry> 2d is quicker i guess
<brobostigon> yes, but miles.
<brobostigon> by miles*
<brobostigon> unity2d.*
<brobostigon> !info unity-2d natty
<lubotu3> unity-2d (source: unity-2d): Unity interface for non-accelerated graphics cards. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.2-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 5 kB, installed size 116 kB
<mungojerry> brobostigon: are you running any cpu scaling
<mungojerry> i seem to spend ages setting it up each time i destroy my setup
<brobostigon> mungojerry: no cpu scaling.
<dogmatic69> man, could anyone help me with getting a ssl cert working? bought one off thawte.. cant find the right guide to use for this
<dogmatic69> have not seen two tutorials doing the same thing
<screen-x> dogmatic69: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#realcert
<dogmatic69> that is for a self signed something?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: no, thats for generating CSR to send to CA, then installing signed cert.
<screen-x> dogmatic69: example of using real cert http://paste.ubuntu.com/583774/
<dogmatic69> screen-x: thanks, its just that people already done half of this
<dogmatic69> suck a mess
<dogmatic69> right, "openssl x509 -noout -text -in server.crt" gives some legit looking output
<screen-x> dogmatic69: I have to lookup the openssl incantations each time I install a cert, I don't do it often enough to remember..
 * screen-x submits census
<czajkowski> davmor2: what have you done to moodoo ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: no idea I'm assuming he is on nights or holiday
<czajkowski> odd
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's Ireland
<czajkowski> he usually still joins you in tormenting me
<czajkowski> davmor2: brief visit
<czajkowski> grand got to see the sister
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oi I ain't said nothing to you, apart from this how dare you trundle past wolverhampton on the train and not pay a visit :P
<czajkowski> pff you'd have been asleep
<czajkowski> option was at 8am yesterday or at 3am this morning take your pick
<screen-x> the census envelope makes quite a good hat, I propose we all wear them on the 27th
<selinuxium> Hi all   o.
<selinuxium> o/
<popey> lo
<czajkowski> selinuxium: howdy
<davmor2> selinuxium: morning
<selinuxium> Anyone done an upgrade to 11.04? I was wondering if I should test it or just flatten the laptop...
<BigRedS> screen-x: isn't it supposed to not be filled in until the 27th?
<czajkowski> aye
<screen-x> BigRedS: As far as I know, its about the 27th, but can be filled in early, if the situation on the 27th is known.
<screen-x> census.gov.uk says "It's time to fill it in"
 * mungojerry hasn't opened his census letter yet, it's still sitting unopened on the stairs along with unopened bills and this months copy of linux magazine
<directhex> i haven't opened these bottles of rum i received this morning
<directhex> i should fix this later
<mungojerry> when does census need to be done by?
<BigRedS> ISTR it's supposed to be filled in on the 27th and posted by the 31st
<gord> i did mine online weeks ago
<mungojerry> BigRedS: really?
<mungojerry> what if you are on holiday for 3 weeks? i only got mine last week
<screen-x> mungojerry: then you have too much annual leave ;-)
 * mungojerry wonders how everyone knows about the census
<mungojerry> it wasn't on slashdot on ubuntu planet so i didn't see it
<popey> via the media and a "census" through the letter bocks
<davmor2> czajkowski: it's dawned on me what you're up to, you've gone over for some Irish Bunting for the Ubuntu Rugby Grudge^wMatch :)
<mungojerry> the only media i look at is sd card and usb sticks
<dogmatic69> does this look like a "SSLCACertificateFile" https://search.thawte.com/library/VERISIGN/ALL_OTHER/thawte%20ca/SSL123_CA_Bundle.pem
<mungojerry> maybe they should start printing the news on the inside of nappies, since that is where i seem to spend most time
<screen-x> mungojerry: maybe you should sitdown with directhex, drink rum and read the news
<dogmatic69> seems like that is needed for the ssl to work properly?
<mungojerry> are all questions compulsory?
<BigRedS> religion isn't
<BigRedS> but otherwise I think so
<mungojerry> do they ask if you are a homosexual vegan druid like my recent employer survey
<screen-x> dogmatic69: looks like SSLCertificateChainFile
<popey> co-worker just filled in a Bupa form
<popey> one field was very specific
<popey> "Sex at birth"
<dogmatic69> screen-x: ah, same thing, new directive from what ive read... so that text just goes all in one file and then "SSLCertificateChainFile /path/to/it"
<Pendulum> popey: was there another question about "current sex"?
<mungojerry> were you born with a winkle? do you still have the winkle
<popey> no Pendulum
<screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah
<dogmatic69> man... it has thawpe or whatever in the details, but says its invalid
<dogmatic69> even seems to be using the ssl middle part thing.. https://e6.geneo.co.uk/
<davmor2> Pendulum: no but you would have miss, mrs and mr as give aways as to how you live your life ;)
<Pendulum> davmor2: fair enough :)
<popey> dunno if it does actually
<popey> he's wandered off with the form to fax it
<dogmatic69> think its working, chrome is just thinking its still wwrong
<mungojerry> anyone got any good london-based conferences coming up?
<mungojerry> going to the infosec show in april,but thats about it
<bigcalm> There are likely to be some 11.04 release parties
<mungojerry> bigcalm: that's mainly a beer drinking event , though isn't it?
<mungojerry> probably couldn't get a day off for that
<screen-x> mungojerry: do you use vmware?
<mungojerry> yes, with vsphere/vcentre
<screen-x> mungojerry: could register for vforum, reasonable food, free to attend, high chance of getting a day off work for it..
<bigcalm> Haha
<mungojerry> screen-x: got an email about that today
<screen-x> downside is its very anti FLOSS :(
<mungojerry> where is it held?
<mungojerry> the london one
<screen-x> mungojerry: don't know. I'm not planning on going this year.
<mungojerry> the registration website doesn't say :(
<screen-x> mungojerry: last year was at Novotel London West
<mungojerry> vmware spout a lot of corporate mumbo jumbo too :P
<screen-x> (thanks google calendar)
<screen-x> mungojerry: yeah :/
<mungojerry> i feel like i'm in a dilbert cartoon
<mungojerry> whenever i do any vmware research
<screen-x> mungojerry: have to keep your head down this week, alice is in charge
<mungojerry> i noticed
 * bigcalm slap hugs popey
<bigcalm> My minecraft pig just ran accross my desk
<bigcalm> ARGH!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Welcome to the matrix?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: wind
<MartijnVdS> ah
<bigcalm> But it did make me jump
<screen-x> bigcalm: did you make a cardboard minecraft pig?
<popey> :) bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: where do you get the templates for those?
 * MartijnVdS wants to annoy a few coworkers
<popey> i have them in my dropbox
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/papercraft/
<popey> in fact
<mungojerry> hmm does postfix require a reload after a logrotate of mail logs?
<Hackbinary> hello
<Hackbinary> which version of debian is ubuntu based on ?
<kazade> Hackbinary, I think it's unstable usually and testing for an LTS ... although I might be wrong
<Hackbinary> cheers, that's what I thought
 * X3N note to self remember not to wear shirt I had my hair cut in :|
<X3N> so. very. itchy..
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> that's partly why I gave up haircuts
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: bald++?
<BigRedS> hah, no. I have flowing locks
<BigRedS> well, a mass of hair
<DJones> Duh, some people who run websites/forums are so thick.  Using Chrome, a forum I use was flagged up as distributing malware, so reported it to the administrator, one of the things they've come back with is that it doesn't show up as an error in Internet Explorer.......
<MartijnVdS> They're so dense, they almost collapse into a black hole
<mungojerry> UGH.....yum install imagemagick : No Match for argument: imagemagick
<mungojerry> yum install ImageMagick: Installing:
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Somebody else has asked "Could be because of the cookies"?
<gord> DJones, prolly the malware they already contracted hijacking their hotmail address to send that reply to you
<mungojerry> DJones: very likely something in their cookies, yes!
<MartijnVdS> DJones: time to get out of the way before you're caught beyond the event horizon
<DJones> gord: Nah, the malware would ask a more intelligent question
<BigRedS> mungojerry: that's part of the reason I love working on centos boxes :/
<mungojerry> BigRedS: and bizarrely , the script on centos4 machine using imagemagick is producing output rotated by 90 degrees :(
<BigRedS> haha, awesome!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Archos update - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/135204.html
<livingdaylight> Greetings
<smittix> Hi all
<screen-x> hi smittix and livingdaylight :)
<livingdaylight> hi screen-x
<screen-x> Google: do not be evil, stop patenting random things http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Google-doodles-itself-a-patent-1212681.html
<livingdaylight> Iá¸¿ in my new kubuntu environment here :p
<BigRedS> that's the happiest emoticon I've seen near an implication of kde in quite a while :)
<livingdaylight> Never knew what Quassel was before today
<smittix> hi screen-x
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: :)
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: there seems nothing wrong with it
<smittix> Been working on a site all day whilst on tramadol for a bad back. I have gotten nowhere.
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: Ah, I got bored of it forgetting arbitrary customisations of mine
<mungojerry>  trying to install natty on my eee pc and seems to get stuck after the first couple of screens :(
<BigRedS> it was amusing for a while, guessing which thing would be deconfigured on login, but did get tiring after a while...
<livingdaylight> well, Iá¸¿ on day 1 here. Lets see how it goes
<screen-x> livingdaylight: you seem to have accented 'm's
<BigRedS> ah yeah. it's generally good to ignore my complaints about software. I complain about most software :)
<livingdaylight> screen-x: keyboard is playing up
<DJones> Oh how exciting, Amazons Android App store is open and I can get Angry Birds Rio for free for a limited time
 * mungojerry realises he hasn't played angry birds for months
<BigRedS> angry birds rio?
<BigRedS> a brazillian version?
<mungojerry> i thought they were all free
<DJones> BigRedS: http://www.amazon.com/mobile-apps/b/ref=pe_143140_19270210_topnav_storetab_mas?ie=UTF8&node=2350149011
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Im not a Mac fan. But& - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/02/16/im-not-a-mac-fan-but/
<mungojerry> ^^ isn't that a really old article mr bot?
<mungojerry> DJones: i can't seem to download the FREE game without a purchase method
<DJones> I've no idea, I haven't bothered with it
<mungojerry> its a swizz
<DJones> Maybe because Amazon is a commercial entity, they want you to put a card number etc in so that next time you accidentally click on something they can bill you directly
<mungojerry> i suspect so
<mungojerry> uninstalled their POC appstore
<DJones> I would guess that a large part of the apps will be duplicated in the android market anyway (if not all)
<mungojerry> i haven't found an app worth buying yet in 12 months
<gord> iv bought loads of stuff on the android market
<DJones> Same here in 2 years, the only one I would buy is swype if my beta test ever runs out
<mungojerry> maybe i'm missing out - what is there?
<gord> in my view, if you use something, its worth buying
<popey> its US only
<mungojerry> popey: strange that it let me install their market app
<mungojerry> at least it let me uninstall :P
<mungojerry> ...or did it
<popey> it says in big letters at the top
 * mungojerry is liking the natty installer...shame i didn't plug a real monitor into this eee pc
<popey> "The Amazon Appstore is only available to customers located in the United States.
<DJones> popey: Now you said that, I've just gone and looked and noticed the big letters at the top
<mungojerry> i don't look at banners
<mungojerry> my brain is trained to disregard them
 * DJones makes an excuse that he only reads small print, if its big print, its an advert to be ignored
<livingdaylight> greetings
<popey> hello goodbye hello
<SuperMatt> installing firefox 4, what method are people using?
<mungojerry> using lucid, i'm using a PPA i found
<marxjohnson> waiting until 10.04 :P
<popey> I'm using the "just use what I have" method
<marxjohnson> 10.10*
<popey> s/10.04/11.04/
<marxjohnson> damn
<marxjohnson> yes
<SuperMatt> I'm using the dailies ppa, and have done for a while, but that's really "minefield" and is version 4.0b13pre
<livingdaylight> i wonder whether my wireless card is on its last legs
<SuperMatt> sure, it's a release from last night
<popey> the builds for 10.10 ff4 are nearly done
<mungojerry> SuperMatt:  4.0~rc1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~eugenesan~lucid1
<DJones> SuperMatt: Isn't firefox 4 still only in beta at the minute, so it would still be Minefield
<livingdaylight_> gord:  you were saying you liek to pay for things you use?
<X3N> http://glow.mozilla.org/
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/6339/how-do-i-install-firefox-4
<popey> that will be updated in a few minutes
<SuperMatt> DJones: it's out.
<gord> livingdaylight_, if the thing i use wants money, then sure
<livingdaylight_> my wireless is fading in and out of consciousness
<gord> i can afford the Â£1 that the market is asking, i will just go without my mars bar for the day
<gord> not that i eat a mars bar every day :P
<mungojerry> a mars a day helps you work rest and play
<kazade> http://glow.mozilla.org/
<livingdaylight_> gord: thatÅ not the same as " in my view, if you use something, its worth buying "
<mungojerry> gord: interested which apps you have bought
<DJones> SuperMatt: Right, just checked, from what I saw, its only been released today
<gord> livingdaylight_, how is it not the same?
<livingdaylight_> different logic
<gord> livingdaylight_, no its not
<livingdaylight_> ok
<popey> Nice guide to putting webapps in the #ubuntu unity launcher. http://popey.me/f8daBc
<popey> oops, that was supposed to be a tweet
<popey> hey ho
<mungojerry> anyone know how to get unity 2d running instead of 3d?
<DJones> popey: Do you use irssi for twitter?
<marxjohnson> mungojerry: you can get the old netbook interface if that's what you mean
<popey> yes DJones
<popey> mungojerry: yes
<popey> marxjohnson: there's a unity 2d, new one
<marxjohnson> ooh
<mungojerry> it's qt based
<marxjohnson> oooooooh
<marxjohnson> how exciting
<DJones> popey: What method do you use for that, I tried one ages ago without sucess, but I'm tempted to try again
<popey> mungojerry:  http://popey.me/haHkMc
<popey> ^^ guide to unity 2d
<mungojerry> merci
<popey> np
<popey> DJones: twirssi
<marxjohnson> is it only on natty?
<DJones> Thanks, I'll investigate that
<mungojerry> marxjohnson: check out popey's link
<marxjohnson> just did, sorry getting over excited an forgetting to read ;-)
<gord> back in the initial prototyping days of unity we had proper webapp support - webapps were basically just another application, it was fun
<popey> lol
<mungojerry> bah nothing fits on this screen
<gord> chromium sucked too much though and no one had the chrome knowledge to fix it - firefox prism was broken in all sorts of stupid ways, so it was removed. damn shame
<mungojerry> gord: is that what jolicloud do?
<gord> mungojerry, not sure, never used jolicloud
<gord> in the eyes of unity though, a webapp was no different from say, gedit though
<mungojerry> i used to use it, and they had loads of useless prism apps that were slow. they switched to chrome but i wasn't interested in the web apps
<mungojerry> i think thats the joli way. but i used it before html5 and offline use
<mungojerry> so a bit pointless really
<popey> mungojerry: no, its what peppermint does though
<mungojerry> unity launcher isn't hiding when apps are fullscreen :(
<popey> jolicloud actually installs real apps
<popey> "real"
<mungojerry> does real and cloud
<mungojerry> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/22/play_blames_marketing_firm_for_spam_snafu/
<popey> yeah, i got an apology email some days back
<mungojerry> unity 2d is looking more bust than 3d atm
<brobostigon> hello everyone.
<popey> Yay! Firefox 4 built for 10.04 and 10.10 now! http://askubuntu.com/questions/6339/how-do-i-install-firefox-4/612
<marxjohnson> does it take a while to show up in the PPA if its just been built?
<marxjohnson> (i lied about waiting till 11.04)
<marxjohnson> Ah, there it is!
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> popey: hi
<kaushal> I saw your reply
<popey> which one?
<kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
<kaushal> squid-deb-proxy-client
<kaushal> not sure i understand that
<popey> what bit don't you understand?
<kaushal> so do i need to populate the repositories
<kaushal> I use deb-mirror as of now
<popey> You need to no more than I said in the mail
<popey> install squid-deb-proxy on the server
<popey> install squid-deb-proxy-client on the clients
<popey> that's _it_
<screen-x> avahi?
<kaushal> ok
<popey> yup
<screen-x> \o/
<kaushal> so there is no need of local ubuntu mirror ?
<popey> correct
<kaushal> oh ok
<popey> unless you really want/need one
<kaushal> how does it work ?
<kaushal> so no need to edit sources.list ?
<popey> correct
<popey> 17:35:38 < popey> that's _it_
<popey> honestly, there is _nothing_ else to do
<popey> installing squid-deb-proxy on the server will install a specially configured squid proxy
<popey> and advertise it over avahi
<popey> installing squid-deb-proxy-client on the clients will configure them to look _first_ for the squid proxy via avahi
<popey> if they cant find it, they use whatever the sources.list says
<popey> so for me it's useful because when I am at home it uses the proxy, when I am at work (where there is no proxy) it just goes to the repos to get stuff
<popey> but the crucial point is I don't have to do anything when I travel from home to work
<kaushal> so repos ?
<kaushal> in office
<popey> no, i have no local repos at all
<kaushal> popey: the idea is to save bandwidth
<popey> yes
<kaushal> does that solve it ?
<popey> yes
<kaushal> I mean office network
<popey> if you have more than one machine running ubuntu, yes
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> Argh.. debconf backgrounds are purple now?
<shauno> *aubergine
<kaushal> popey: Thanks a lot
<bigcalm> Hehe
<kaushal> You have been so kind to me always
<kaushal> I really appreciate it
<kaushal> :)
<popey> np
<kaushal> so once 11.04 is out
<kaushal> it will hold true
<kaushal> right ?
<kaushal> so what does Avahi do technically ?
 * kaushal will read it again
<kaushal> Thanks anyways
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it does some magic with multicast
<popey> kaushal: automatic discovery
<popey> kaushal: it's so you don't have to tell each client where the proxy is, they figure it out
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: avahi.org has more details on the protocol etc. (it's the same as Apple's bonjour :)
<popey> and windows's zeroconf
<popey> ish
<MartijnVdS> popey: well not.. Windows doesn't use the same zeroconf stuff does it?
<MartijnVdS> I always need 2 protocols because MS couldn't be bothered to implement an RFC standard
<kaushal> popey: ok
<ali1234> avahi is an implementation of the apple stuff
<popey> ah
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks for the explanation
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, they're both implementations of RFC3927 :)
<MartijnVdS> wait
<screen-x> erm..
<MartijnVdS> RFC3927 IS implemented by windows
<MartijnVdS> DNS-SD and mDNS are Apple-specific.. you're right
 * MartijnVdS slaps self
<ali1234> microsoft uses upnp
<MartijnVdS> There's DNSSD/mDNS (APple), SSDP/UPnP (MS) and SLP (IETF)
<MartijnVdS> and they're all incompatible \o/
<shauno> thought slp was effectively dead
<ali1234> upnp is effectively dead since the standard was so vague no two upnp devices will work together
<screen-x> upnp is scary
<shauno> oh well.  good thing apples' works ;)
<X3N> UPnP wasn't a MS project
<smittix> can anyone connect to http://aptgetmoo.co.uk ?
<screen-x> smittix: wfm
<X3N> It's a consortium of companies in the upnp forum
<MartijnVdS> X3N: yay standards-by-committee
<X3N> indeed
<smittix> Bah must be my DNS
 * screen-x wants a thinkpad x220, but lenovo don't want to sell them yet :(
<X3N> I'd say it does work too, most home routers use upnp, and av stuff works but there is a varying amount of how much of the specification has been implemented
<screen-x> X3N: its when upnp works that its most scary, you find that your router has opened ports for stuff like vnc, which you really didnt want exposed.
<X3N> also the problem with av stuff is it's heavily dependant on matching codecs
<MartijnVdS> X3N: and it's hard to figure out which codecs are supported
<MartijnVdS> except from docs written by the marketing dept
<shauno> I find the whole thing of opening ports is only a problem because people have somehow decided that NAT is a firewall
<X3N> well, that should be done by DNLA profiles, but in practice yeah, it's hit and miss
<X3N> plus most people's media is either drm'ed, pirated or uses expensive codecs
<brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fow.jpg LOL
<brobostigon> sorry, that picture just made me giggle.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: me too :)
<dwatkins> and on that note, I'm off home, ciao for now... k'plah!
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> myyyyh
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: good evening to you troo
<MartijnVdS> too*
<Myrtti> 37.9 :-(
<screen-x> Myrtti: temperature?
<Myrtti> yup...
<screen-x> :(
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Fever
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<Myrtti> its been goinh up since friday
<screen-x> Myrtti: have you overclocked yourself?
<brobostigon> my eeepc is 57C.
<Myrtti> i wish  then id get more stuff done
<smittix> Wonga
<smittix> Dell Studio is 53C
<MartijnVdS> My i3 is 38.5
<MartijnVdS> mainboard is 29
<directhex> brobostigon: nvidia graphics chips are rated to 110 before they throttle, so don't fret
<sinbad> register salamander23 petegordon007@gmail.com
<brobostigon> directhex: my eeepc, which i was refferring to is intel.
<brobostigon> directhex: but that is interesting to know, :)
<directhex> intel cpu should be fine to about 70C
<brobostigon> :)
<smittix> Is Identica any good?
<moreati> smittix: it has good reach in open source circles, outside that very few people use it.
<smittix> moreati: I'll give it a whirl
<brobostigon> identi.ca/ptaylor  ptaylor.status.net
<moreati> smittix: In my opinion it has better architecture than twitter, but I wimped out and chose twitter because that's where the people are
<brobostigon> moreati: or like me, have both.
<brobostigon> or three.
<moreati> I have an identica account, it may even still pull everything from twitter. I haven't checked it in months. brb
<smittix> meh, tried subscribing to brobostigon and got an error.
<brobostigon> smittix: which one?
<gord> i find the days that my identica account isn't working on gwibber are more enjoyable...
<MartijnVdS> gord: i.e. most days (knowing gwibber)
<smittix> brobostigon: identica
<brobostigon> gord: everything in gwibeer seems working other than twitter, so its one less thing to read,
<brobostigon> smittix: i just checked and it opens, what error did it give you?
<brobostigon> gwibber*
<smittix> Bad Request
<smittix> Bad Request - You can use the local subscription!
<smittix> when clicking subscribe
<brobostigon> not seen that kind of error, no idea.
<brobostigon> sorry,
<brobostigon> it should work.
<brobostigon> there no limit on who cansubscribe to me.
<brobostigon> smittix: try and remote subscribe to ptaylor.status.net/ptaylor, all my samestuff goes there, aswell.
<smittix> brobostigon: Does mine work? http://identi.ca/smittix
<brobostigon> smittix: worked fine, yes.
<smittix> brobostigon: Site problem by the looks of it - The database for Identi.ca isn't responding correctly, so the site won't work properly. The site admins probably know about the problem, but you can contact them at admin@status.net to make sure. Otherwise, wait a few minutes and try again.
<smittix> I'll try later
<brobostigon> smittix: ok, i see, ohwel.
<smittix> Dont suppose anyone wants to help out with a website?
<Azelphur> smittix: ask away *shrug
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Actually be site staff..
<Azelphur> smittix: work for free? doubt it unless it's a very special site :P
<smittix> More of a hobby
<brobostigon> smittix: which side of, hw software admin, or page maintence?
<smittix> Basically mod the forums, write articles? that type of thing. Too much to do on my own really so need a partner.
<smittix> if it even takes off that is.
<Azelphur> smittix: generally you look for people after it even takes off and use someone from the community
<popey> what is the site about?
<Azelphur> speaking as someone who has a large community with a few staff :p
<smittix> popey: http://www.aptgetmoo.co.uk
<smittix> Azelphur: Yeah, I found doing it from the start helped me in the past.
<smittix> I ran nixaddict.com
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<smittix> Azelphur: What community do you run?
<popey> Just what the world needs, another Open Source / Linux news aggregator site :p
<Azelphur> smittix: http://game.azelphur.com
<smittix> popey: Did you not read the first comment?
<brobostigon> http://linux.uk.com/ had the same aim, aand i worked on it, but it nevr caught interest so died,
<Azelphur> smittix: 33,982Â players andÂ 3,556Â clans ranked inÂ 4Â games onÂ 3Â servers withÂ 3,918,934Â kills. :P
<popey> smittix: the "welcome"?
<smittix> popey: Yeah?
<popey> yes
<popey> hence my comment!
<smittix> I must of missed something, Because it says that a Open Source/Linux aggregator site is what it's _not_ going to be.
<ali1234> what is it going to be then?
<ali1234> if it moos like a duck...
<popey> exactly :)
<smittix> ali1234: What's that supposed to mean?
<brobostigon> smittix: youre challange is going to be, getting enough people, to write enough "original" content.
<popey> communities don't just appear out of nowhere
<popey> they tend to grow around something
<ali1234> actually i think they do
<popey> well, okay
<popey> they appear out of nowhere _around_ something :)
<ali1234> you can't force it though
<popey> exactly
<ali1234> no, i still disagree
<ali1234> the community usually shows up first then someone says "maybe we should make a website"
<ali1234> i mean just look at the mistakes nokia made with maemo
<ali1234> this is a classic example of trying to force a community to happen
<ali1234> and it pretty much was a complete failure
<brobostigon> ali1234: maemo was quite successful though, really,
<ali1234> um yeah that's why they canned it :)
<ali1234> have you ever been on, say, talk.maemo.org?
<ali1234> it's not a nice place to be
<brobostigon> ali1234: i look atthe n800 and n900, and they are amazing,
<ali1234> you have a small hardcore clique of people who love maemo
<brobostigon> ali1234: not in ages. i didntmuch like its design.
<ali1234> and an enormous number of trolls
<moreati> brobostigon: nice product is not the same as nice community
<ali1234> to the point where any newcomer is pretty much assumed to be a troll
<brobostigon> moreati: very true,
<popey> ali1234: you're disagreeing with a point I didnt make
<popey> maybe I didnt articulate it well, but I'm not arguing with you
<brobostigon> ali1234: i didntlook at it that closesly. i just did what i had to do, and work out, and left.
<ali1234> anyway this is a direct result of trying to plan out a community ahead of time
<smittix> I tried creating a "how to" site called ubuntuhow back in 2008 but got turned down by canonical
<ali1234> i see canonical doing a lot of the same things as nokia did with maemo
<ali1234> i mean, by definition any community that involves a "community manager" is broken in my opinion
<czajkowski> ali1234: why do you say that ?
<ali1234> since the very existence of such a role indicates that someone somewhere doesn't want to be part of the community, therefore they created this role to do it for them
<czajkowski> ali1234: most open source communities have one
<smittix> Does anyone know how OMGUbuntu got away with using "Ubuntu" in the domain name?
<czajkowski> ali1234: no their role is to help people in the community be a part of the community and have a place in it
<czajkowski> smittix: there are lots of domains out there with the name Ubuntu, Canonical dont own the word.
<czajkowski> Ubuntu.ie is an example off the top of my head
<ali1234> czajkowski: well in maemo the community manager acted as a conduit between nokia and the community
<popey> smittix: how do you mean "get away with"?
<popey> smittix: there are plenty of non-canonical non-official websites with ubuntu in the name
<czajkowski> ali1234: that was their role, commercial and the development of maemo.
<smittix> popey: I was told by Canonical that i actually couldnt use the word "ubuntu" in my domain name?
<ali1234> smittix: there's your problem. you should have just done it :)
<ali1234> this is another prblem that happens when communities are controlled/designed
<popey> smittix: depends how you use it
<ali1234> everyone constantly seeks approval/permission because "we wouldn't want <company X> to pull out of the community"
<popey> having ubuntu in the name isnt actually that helpful
<ali1234> as a result the community is paralysed if <company X> never communicates
<czajkowski> danfish: you alive
<smittix> ah well, I will see how it goes.
<smittix> Just wanted to build a helpfull community where newbies don't get flamed for asking stupid questions like so many other sites out there.
<ali1234> i don't know of any ubuntu sites where that is true
<popey> +1
 * brobostigon shakes fist at libdrm and xorg-intel and gpu hung, :(
<czajkowski> smittix: I dont think that's the case in the Ubuntu community, most people are very friendly and patient
<popey> uh
<smittix> czajkowski: I didn't say in the ubuntu community.
<czajkowski> smittix: I know I was just pointing out that it's one of the comuities out there it doesnt happen
<popey> smittix: where do you see that happening?
<ali1234> fedora otoh...
<popey> ali1234: is that the case? or you being funny? :)
<smittix> IRC Channels and Websites of other well known distro's
<ali1234> popey: go to #fedora and ask a silly question, see what happens...
<popey> fedora is a bit different though
<popey> not designed for end users
<smittix> The way the ubuntu community is, is probably why im still using it.
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you see the Gnome 3 post on lwn?
<knightwi1e> evenin
<popey> MartijnVdS: dont think so
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/433409/4717f5f421b6bad3/
<ali1234> i think it is rather silly to say that some distribution is not designed for end users...
<popey> oh golly
<popey> thats their opinion, not mine
<ali1234> all distributions by definition are designed for users
<knightwi1e> ubuntu grandma turns 84 today btw ! :) she's getting 11,04 for her birthday
<popey> well okay, captain pedant :)
<popey> YKWIM
<popey> fedora isnt designed for my mum :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: neither was Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<popey> my mum is a human
<ali1234> i'm not your mum though, it didn't stop them calling me noob and idiot and RTFM
<popey> (last I looked)
<smittix> That's why I became a member of Ubuntu UK LoCo because of how friendly people were.
<popey> sure
<knightwi1e> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000056681712&pub=2386512837
<brobostigon> 100+ lag, :(
<popey> i guess thats why some people like fedora
<popey> less controlling than ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> different kind of control
<knightwi1e> oh boy .. ubuntu vs fedora war ?
<popey> no
<popey> not at all
<knightwi1e> oh good :)
<smittix> Looks like I started some debating tonight. Sorry about that.
<MartijnVdS> knightwi1e: you lost an s in your name
<popey> no need to apologise smittix
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> lo ali1234
<popey> and AlanBell
<smittix> Is there any members from the east midlands here?
 * brobostigon is just outside south midlands.
<root____> hello
<smittix> Hi
<root____> how are you guys ?
<smittix> Good and you?
<root____> a live hahahha
<root____> ok i have question
<root____> but it is about aircrack
<brobostigon> root____: dont tell us youare on irc as root, it is very bad.
<root____> no im not
<root____> and i know it is bad
<root____> ok wait a min i will check that but im sure im not
<brobostigon> 20:16:12 [Freenode] -!- root____ [~root@77.245.6.8]
<brobostigon> why is it showing your logged in user as root then?
<czajkowski> dutchie: CONGRATS!
<popey> aaanyway
<popey> root____: what was the question?
<root___> oh i was on IRC as root !
<brobostigon> root____: you still are,
<root___> no man i changed that
<root___> im using irris
<brobostigon> root____: /whois youre self.
<root___> on terminal
<root___> ok
<brobostigon> 20:17:41 -!- root___ [~root@77.245.6.8] has joined #ubuntu-uk
<root___> its just a name
<root___> i installed irssis and i was root
<brobostigon> using root, as your name and or username, unless you are logged in as root, is rather weird,
<root___> but now im not !
<root___> i dont know it is the first time i use IRC on terminal
<popey> chill guys
<popey> what was the actual question you had?
<brobostigon> sorry,
<root___> ok
<root___> it is about aircrack
<root___> today i was on a presentation and i was trying to hack WEP AP which is something very easy
<root___> but something strange happened !
<root___> when i was trying to make interactive packet attack i got a packet with of 680 Byte !
<root___> you still there guys ?
<brobostigon> o/
<root___> ok i will go to aircrack !
<popey> yes
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: the comments on that lwn are rather amusing
<marxjohnson> yep
<root___> ok good
<root___> so why i got a 680 packet which in interactive packet attack
<root___> which is something very strange
<popey> haha
<popey> i have absolutely no idea
<root___> ok no problem
<marxjohnson> is there an aircrack channel?
<root___> thank you anyway
<root___> yes there is
<brobostigon> no idea either.
<marxjohnson> you might have better luck there
<popey> yes
<root___> but noramlly here there is Professoinal GUYS
<marxjohnson> we know about Ubuntu
<root___> i dont belive in luck !
<brobostigon> and debian.
<marxjohnson> and heavy metal
<marxjohnson> or  is that just me?
<brobostigon> and haiku and beos.
<brobostigon> nd curries.
<brobostigon> and beer*
<gord> i'm an expert on treasure island dizzy
<root___> is there any ubuntu dist can be instlled on Samsung Galaxy ?
<mgdm> gord: Prince of the Yolkfolk is my most-familiar one
<mgdm> gord: but TID is of course excellent
<gord> mgdm, prince of the yolkfolk is like ten minutes long =\
<mgdm> gord: not for me it wasn't, when I was 8
<mgdm> ;)
<gord> oh right.. erm yes... i too, only played... as a child. yes.
<popey> right
<popey> chaps
<popey> ontopic
<root___> guys do you have guns ?
<smittix> :/
<root___> i really need it !
<popey> I want to run a spectrum emulator which will emulate the SpecDrum
<popey> Spectaculator for windows will
<popey> but that wont work in a vm
<root___> plz dont mention windows name here hahaha
<gord> popey, i assume wine doesn't either?
<popey> not tried actually
<popey> but suspect not
<davmor2> popey: are there not speccy emulators for ubuntu?
<popey> there are
<gord> davmor2, there are plenty, but the specdrum is rather obscure, i didn't know it existed until 30 seconds ago ;)
<smittix> There was a spectrum emulator called speccy iirc.
<popey> but none that I have found which emulate the specdrum
<gord> now i must own one.
<mgdm> I had never heard of it either
<mgdm> I suppose the Korg DS-10 on the Nintendo DS is the modern equivalent? :)
<ali1234> i have
<ali1234> why on earth would you want to emulate it though?
<popey> to record the demo music
<mgdm> Because We Canâ¢.
<davmor2> popey: why don't you just go buy a speccy on ebay and save yourself the hassle ;)  /me runs for cover
<popey> i own 3 speccys
<popey> all packed away
<popey> and i am on the sofa with cheese and wine
<gord> popey, build latest fuse, they accepted at patch in late january for specdrum
<popey> ooooo
<popey> haha someone just tweeted fuse at me :)
<gord> i'm faster than twitter \o/
<popey> heh
<phonex01> hello
<phonex01> again
<phonex01> oh god i was using irc as root
<phonex01> damn !
<brobostigon> phonex01: said so. :)
<phonex01> ok it is a ogod lesson !
<brobostigon> very.
<phonex01> ya
<phonex01> what is the risks ?
<phonex01> good question
<brobostigon> phonex01: imagine a bug in you irc client, and then being ble to do things as root. for example.
<directhex> phonex01: the risk is that any exploit in your IRC client gives an attacker full control of your system, not just your user
<phonex01> oh god
<phonex01> hell no
<brobostigon> phonex01: that why i made a big thing of it, as i did.
<phonex01> ok no problem !
<HazRPG> hi
<HazRPG> \o
<brobostigon> noswaith dda HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening squire :)
<phonex01> HazRPG
<phonex01> how are you man ?
<phonex01> it is me Majdi rom jordan
<HazRPG> phonex01: hey, I'm not bad how's you?
<HazRPG> phonex01: yeah I know :)
<phonex01> im a live !
<phonex01> today i gave a presentation about aircrack and RC4 !
<HazRPG> phonex01: alhamdurillah :)
<HazRPG> phonex01: mabrook :)
<phonex01> hahah allah yebarek feek
<HazRPG> :)
<phonex01> enta ezyak
<HazRPG> phonex01: kwayis alhamdurilah, ana lissa sahi dilwa'ti haha
<HazRPG> I woke up very late today
<phonex01> oh why
<HazRPG> I went to bed at 9am hah
<phonex01> wow
<HazRPG> yeah, I sleep funny hours sometimes
<phonex01> ok in ramadan normally i sleep on 5 AM !
<HazRPG> I do that too
<phonex01> you know specailly in summer fasting is not easy !
<HazRPG> yeah I know!
<phonex01> last ramadan avg temp was 41 C
<HazRPG> wow
<phonex01> so when i was working outside
<phonex01> oh god
<HazRPG> I remember in Saudi it was like 45-50'C... wayyyyyy too hot
<HazRPG> so I know how you feel
<phonex01> i still remeber the first day in the east desert
<phonex01> and i was fasting
<phonex01> working inside a big hunger
<phonex01> no conditions
<phonex01> very very very hot
<phonex01> like the oven !
<HazRPG> its worse fasting here in the UK though during summer, not because of the temp. but because of the amount of time the sun is up
<phonex01> oh yah
<HazRPG> sun is up from around 5am till 10pm
<phonex01> wow
<HazRPG> sometimes more
<phonex01> here noramlly from 5am to 4:30 PM
<HazRPG> yeah, same as in egypt and saudi too
<phonex01> ok listen what do you know about leverpol university ?
<phonex01> is it good ?
<HazRPG> hmm, don't really know much about it
<phonex01> oh ok
<phonex01> i may study there
<HazRPG> btw, its liverpool (in case you want to google)
<HazRPG> cool, well most uni's here are pretty good
<phonex01> i prefer to ask human rather than google hahaha
<phonex01> ok
<brobostigon> liverpool*
<phonex01> Master Degree of Embedded Systems and Mirocontrollers
<phonex01> but i have to take IELTS exam first !
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> brobostigon: you got any knowledge on liverpool uni?
<brobostigon> phonex01: you may want to know about a company called tiab then, that makes custom microcontrollers and its software,
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ziltch. sorry.
<phonex01> Tiab ?
<phonex01> thats good
<phonex01> in the UK ?
<brobostigon> phonex01: yes, just down the road from me,infact, inthe town i live,
<phonex01> ok thank you !
<brobostigon> phonex01: i just applied for a job there.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: nice :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hopefully you'll get it :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: would be really good, tiab do some very interesting work.
<HazRPG> yeah, I'm looking at their site
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> who knows, ya might even get discount with them :D
<brobostigon> HazRPG: know, thatwould definatly benefit my freetime activities, :)
<brobostigon> now*
<HazRPG> exactly :P
<brobostigon> hehe, :)
<brobostigon> yay, got google translation plugin working in irssi.
<brobostigon> creigiau hyn.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> could be very useful.
<popey> congrats Pendulum :)
 * popey loses interest in compiling fuse
<HazRPG> brobostigon: cool :)
<HazRPG> popey: why what happened?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<brobostigon> why does net::twitter, theperl module have to be so massive, to get twirrssi working.
<brobostigon> it failed anyway, so, fuey.
<brobostigon> :p
<Pendulum> popey: thanks :D
<czajkowski> dutchie: welcome aboard :D
 * bigcalm feels that he's missing something
<HazRPG> same
<HazRPG> woot, other shelf finally finished ;D
<AlanBell> oooooh congrats dutchie!
<AlanBell> and Pendulum too of course, but I figured that one out earlier
<Pendulum> AlanBell: dutchie is not for the same thing as me
<AlanBell> I know
<Pendulum> okay
 * mgdm suspects someone has just acquired membership
<Pendulum> nope
<AlanBell> nope
<mgdm> in that case I have no clue ;)
<czajkowski> right going to attempt this sleep lark
<czajkowski> nn
<zleap> nt
<zleap> nite
<hamitron> oh yes
<hamitron> :)
<szymon_g> aloha
<HazRPG> man, I need a bigger house...
<hamitron> HazRPG: why?
<HazRPG> hamitron: too much stuff >_<
<hamitron> ah :)
<gord> HazRPG, you don't need a bigger house, you just need smaller versions of the stuff you have
<HazRPG> gord: or at least somewhere to put them...
<HazRPG> which is what I've slowly started doing
<HazRPG> I have two of these put up now: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ogr7XDAuntqcOkEtcg5WYQ?feat=directlink
<ali1234> right time for natty install second attempt
<HazRPG> ali1234: \o/
<szymon_g> HazRPG, rip those dvds/cds
<directhex> HazRPG: we have 7 of these: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/07305310
<szymon_g> make 2-3 backup copies- should be enough. anyway- it will still save alot of space
<HazRPG> szymon_g: I've ripped the CD's... most of those don't even have CD's in them because they're in the car
<HazRPG> szymon_g: I'd rip the DVD's... but knowing my luck, I'd lose a hard drive just as I did it
<szymon_g> use raid1 ;)
<szymon_g> (yes, i know, its not a backup)
<HazRPG> RAID 1 is mirroring correct?
<HazRPG> its sort of like backuping
<HazRPG> because you essentially get the same data twice on both drives
<szymon_g> its mirroring. and no- it is no backuping per se
<AlanBell> cake \o/ http://fredericiana.com/2011/03/22/the-return-of-from-redmond-with-love/
<szymon_g> if your psu fail, you will lose both hdds /unless you have got dual PSU setup, which is rather rare on deskops/
<ali1234> wow... this is... horrible
<hamitron> could also wipe the data by mistake ;)
<szymon_g> hehe AlanBell
<hamitron> gonna have power turned off tomorrow from 9am till 5pm
<hamitron> well, that is the quoted times :/
 * szymon_g reads review of cd "In The Flower's Shade" by artrosis
<szymon_g> hamitron, i hope your laptop have good battery ;)
<hamitron> well, I should be doing other things that need more power
<szymon_g> yeah, ok, we know, and yes, we are jealous- you have a girlfriend...
<szymon_g> ;)
<hamitron> barely
<hamitron> ;/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-23
<hamitron> suppose I should charge my PSP for entertainment
<dutchie> mgdm: job, not membership :)
<hamitron> how can you use 8Gb RAM in windows?
<hamitron> I think I was maybe greedy and didn't need this much
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: load up a game 4 times :P
<hamitron> I only have a 17" CRT monitor :/
<ali1234> after effects will easily use up that much memory with ram previews
<ali1234> that's about 30 seconds of SD video or something
<hamitron> I got 3.2gb used earlier
<hamitron> using vmware
<hamitron> but have since decided it wasn't good for what I wanted
<ali1234> so it seems like most of the bad things in unity are infecting the "classic" desktop too
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> when i upgraded yesterday the classic desktop didn't have global-menu by default
<ali1234> although there was a panel applet i could add and remove at will
<hamitron> this is the beta?
<ali1234> although when i created a new user, global-menu was enforced, and "remove from panel" was greyed out on the global menu
<ali1234> after a clean install, same thing
<ali1234> beta isn't out yet
<ali1234> this is alpha 3
<ali1234> updating it now
<ali1234> oh, updating failed, "can't install 'unity-desktop'"
<ali1234> is it possible to run apport-collect or w/e remotely, and then have the bug report URL sent to myself on, say, bonjour (chat protocol for LAN) so i can fill the details on a machine that actually works?
<ali1234> i bet it would be quite easy actually
<Seeker`> ali1234: don't complain about bugs in alpha software :P
<ali1234> why?
<shauno> no, do.  the whole point of alpha is to fix those before it's released
<Seeker`> shauno: report them by all means, but don't *complain* about them
<ali1234> why do you think i asked about apport-collect?
<ali1234> second partial upgrade begins...
<ali1234> update manager crashed
<ali1234> and the crash report is corrupted
<Azelphur> my computers going insane, when I press RCTRL in a terminal I get ~
<Azelphur> right supor is . xD
<Azelphur> and when I press up on the arrows, it takes a screenshot
<Azelphur> maybe I just need to reboot for the latest update :s
<Azelphur> there, reboot fixed it :P
<shauno> whacky
<Azelphur> indeed
<shauno> mental note; next time I try to transcode video, start it before I go to bed, not before I settle down infront of the computer for the day :/
<shauno> poor lil lappy's blowing so hard, I swear it'd run faster than me if I put wheels on it
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to use apport to catch a compiz crash?
<HazRPG> even though I've been tidying up... it still looks messy :/ :: https://picasaweb.google.com/hazrpg/DIY?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> yes... I have 3 swizzle chairs and 1 regular
<HazRPG> back when I use to host lan parties...
<HazRPG> also comes in handy when I have clients... I tend to move the mess away before I have people round though lol
<shauno> that kitchen chair.  I swear I have the very same one
<HazRPG> wouldn't surprise me
<HazRPG> I think it was bought from tescos?
<shauno> no idea, was here when we moved in
<HazRPG> I dragged it from the conservatory where the table that goes with is...
<HazRPG> shauno: have you got a round table that goes with it?
<shauno> aye, with a leaf in the middle
<shauno> and stupidly huge legs that make it awkward to actually sit at
<HazRPG> ah... mine doesn't have a leaf on it lol
<HazRPG> yeah... mines got that though
<shauno> tis not ours tho.  we rent. because the property market here isn't something I want to get involved with
<HazRPG> the box under the table where the TV is... that's where the other C64 is located
<HazRPG> ah that makes sense
<HazRPG> is it wrong that I just noticed my suit-jacket on the chair after looking through the photos and not by actually looking at the chair :S??
<shauno> I think it's wrong that you take pictures of that kinda thing in the first place :)
<HazRPG> that I took photos of my room?
<shauno> aye
<HazRPG> I was just proving to my friend on mumble that I have actually done something constructive today
<HazRPG> he seems to think I don't do anything all day long
<HazRPG> on one hand, I wish I had less stuff... and on the other, I wish I had better places to store my stuff
<shauno> I just gave up and admitted my "office" isn't safe for human consumption :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> that's usually a similar explanation I give others
<HazRPG> my mother would kill me if she ever saw it like this
<HazRPG> she's too much of a clean-freak
<shauno> haha
<shauno> we have a stalemate.  she leaves my mess alone, if I promise to confine it to a single room
<HazRPG> heh, my dad and I have that arrangement too
<HazRPG> mother on the other hand... if its not clean, there will be war!
<HazRPG> thankfully neither visit... so it's a win-win
<HazRPG> although, arguably... she's would be just as bad as me, if she lived in a house the same size I do...
<shauno> I could probably use a lot more storage :/  I find that "holy explosion of nerdosity, batman" works for me just fine tho
<HazRPG> haha
 * HazRPG is rather intrigued
<HazRPG> no way your mess can be worse then mine
<shauno> haha
<HazRPG> considering you've only seen my computer room (I should really learn to start calling it an office... but that's I think that's the proper term for it)... I have a shed full of old computers... and a living room full of my DVD's
<HazRPG> thankfully though the living room is tidy
<shauno> the one I just sent ya is quite old (a good 5-7 years ago)
<shauno> but an idea of how untidy I get
<shauno> 2006 per exif :/  time flies
<HazRPG> time does fly
<HazRPG> heh, so glad I'm not the only one then
<HazRPG> although, at least the desk is still visible though
<shauno> :D
<shauno> and I've an excuse for the coke cans; they're returnable in michigan
<HazRPG> loving the original diablo box btw :P
<HazRPG> heh, I do that too... cos in saudi they're returnable :P
<HazRPG> its a habit that just hasn't died
<shauno> I think that's the battlechest, so not so original; diablo, d2 & d2:lod
<HazRPG> battlechest would only contain d2 and d2:lod
<HazRPG> wait hang on... so that picture is of your room in michigan... and you were bitching at me about how I was taking photos of my room :P
<shauno> that's 5 years ago :)
<HazRPG> still a photo... that you took... of your room computering area!
<shauno> at 4am, according to exif.  some things don't change :p
<HazRPG> in fact... wouldn't that be worse, considering you've kept the photo this long xD
<shauno> nah, I've just had the same webhost for too long
<HazRPG> heh, yeah... I have a feeling the late nights/early mornings just comes with the profession/hobby choice
<HazRPG> right, quick re-log... since ubuntu has decided that it doesn't want to mount my CD drive :/
<HazRPG> back
<shauno> o/
<shauno> well, just for late-night amusement, here's "5 years on"
<HazRPG> tidier, I must say
<shauno> bigger desk :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> much like my big-desk investment
<shauno> that, and foodstuffs violate the "my room" treaty, so it's just nerdjunk now
<HazRPG> I love how the cornered off table is placed in-front of another table... instead of having the table in the corner...
<shauno> not many options :/  it's a pretty small room
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> this is the only wall it'll go up against without blocking in either the radiator, or the door
<HazRPG> see I have the advantage of my computer room suppose to be a living room factor
<shauno> the other 'table' is a permanent fixture; it's actually the top of the stairwell, boxed over
<HazRPG> oh...
<HazRPG> heh, well that makes sense I guess... odd house design choice however
<shauno> that was like that when we got here, but apparently an attempt to turn what'd otherwise be a 45Âº chunk of floor into useful space
<shauno> yes.  idiotic house designs seem normal here
<HazRPG> heh, old houses here are just as bad though
<shauno> seems to be part of the whole property boom thing.  seems people who had no business building homes, gave it their best shot anyway
<HazRPG> our living/TV/lounge room has a chimney against one wall... so you've got like half a metre clearance on either side of it, that's 1/4 to half a metre in diameter...
<HazRPG> then there's like a concrete patch infront of where the fireplace would have been... so we've had to sort of squeeze a sofa between the door and that concrete patch...
<HazRPG> the concrete is tiled up, so it doesn't look that bad... it just leaves the room looking big, but small because you can't fit anything in because of the odd proportions
<HazRPG> shauno: oh, I guess that's one way of looking at it
<shauno> I prefer older homes
<HazRPG> how so?
<shauno> if the bathroom hasn't dropped thru in the last 100 years, it's not about to start now :)
<shauno> still trying to get the landlord to fix a small issue where if we shower, water comes thru the cooker hood downstairs
<HazRPG> lmao
<HazRPG> I have this vision of someone having a shower... where water is going down from the shower... meanwhile downstairs, water is showering upwards from the cooker - in a charlie chaplin sort of manner
<shauno> you can see the paint peeling at the top of that last photo, because the bathroom above us was apparently fitted by a stag party
<HazRPG> heh seriously!
<shauno> so if we use the en-suite, water ends up in my office.  if we use the regular bathroom, it ends up in the kitchen
<shauno> makes me think they should stick bathrooms on the ground floor only, so it's nowhere further to go
<HazRPG> bathrooms use to be ground floor only at one point
<shauno> my nanna's house is like that
<shauno> the bathroom is downstairs, because when they moved in, it was outside.  so when they converted, it was put up against the kitchen because that's where the plumbing is
<HazRPG> when my dad bought his first house (which he still owns) he knocked the wall between where the house and outside bathroom met
<HazRPG> heh yeah, pretty much what you just said :P
<HazRPG> the bathroom is technically next to the kitchen
<shauno> they kept their outside one tho.  kinda cute when it's just a novelty
<HazRPG> heh awesome
<HazRPG> "going for a smoke, and then a piss" comes to mind
<HazRPG> hopefully not at the same time xD
<HazRPG> although I have seen my mother do that though >_<
<shauno> tiny little mining village in durham .. visiting them always felt like a trip back in time
<HazRPG> she has a habit of NOT closing bathroom doors
<HazRPG> something which took me 18 years to get use to
<shauno> :/
<shauno> I'm the eldest of 5 .. a bolt was always the only expectation of privacy
<HazRPG> heh, I grew up with locks not working
<shauno> woot, transcode finished :)
<HazRPG> \o/
<shauno> hopefully new laptop this weekend, then this one will be opened to even more abuse
<HazRPG> winner!
<HazRPG> shauno: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/1/10/Winrar_is_you.png
<shauno> hah
<shauno> nah, it's just "my turn".  last year we blew my bonus on keeping Herself happy, this year it's my turn
<HazRPG> refers to previous picture :D! \o/
<HazRPG> someone has just sent me this linked, and it amused me...
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbplbvL-vy8
<shauno> okay, not random at all :p
<HazRPG> she has penguin underpants...
<HazRPG> lol
 * HazRPG <== liked penguins before he even heard about linux
<HazRPG> if fact I think I came across linux because I was looking for some penguin wallpapers and was wondering who tux was back when I was 14
<shauno> could never figure out why they had welsh names tho
<HazRPG> why what had welsh names?
<shauno> penguins
<shauno> pen (penn?) gwyn is "white head".  that can't be a coincidence.  penguins are welsh :)
<HazRPG> lol
<shauno> (no, I wasn't going to claim tux's real name is dafyyd)
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> slightly disturbed with the music I just found marked "arabic music"
<HazRPG> its a CD I found while cleaning, guessing it's a disc one of my cousins made me
<shauno> fun
<HazRPG> first song so far has a kid saying "baba ubah" <arabic kid gibberish words> "baba ubah"... which translates as "dad, piggyback" or "dad, lift me up"
<HazRPG> it is just gibberish words that kids say...
<HazRPG> just heard "wawa" and that's a kids way of saying "booboo" or "I have a cut/swore" of some description
<HazRPG> thankfully the rest aren't as bad
<shauno> it'll be nice to have a laptop that doesn't have a fried battery.  waiting to go watch a movie, but can't move the laptop until this copy has finished
<shauno> because the battery won't last the time it takes to get downstairs :/
<HazRPG> track 4: "My heart, my heart... is on fire!"
<HazRPG> movie on laptop I'm guessing?
<shauno> it is at the moment, it'll be on the TV in "about 12 minutes"
<HazRPG> via HDMI or similar?
<shauno> nah, got a gizmo that sits in front of the TV to do it, ftp'ing the file to the telly now
<HazRPG> heh nice :)
<shauno> it's just difficult to sit infront of the telly with no internet for 2 hours, so waiting until I can take the lappy with me :)
<HazRPG> I just use my PS3 for streaming content via "Media Server"
<shauno> I have an (old-style) appletv, all loaded up with xbmc
<HazRPG> and women say we can't multitask :P we can internets and watch a film!
<HazRPG> awesome
<HazRPG> I had the same with my ps3 originally when it had linux on it
<HazRPG> then the took it away from me :(
<HazRPG> they*
<shauno> it's a pretty pathetic little box, but it's wife-friendly
<HazRPG> just cos my sister decided it would be a good idea to accept the update
<shauno> (again, the "keep my mess in my room" treaty)
<HazRPG> heh \o/
<HazRPG> man, I hope I can find a woman that would ever agree to my geeky ways
<shauno> I did manage to get an exception made for the NES tho :)
<HazRPG> winner :P
<shauno> not found a tidy way to keep that, without wrapping cables around the controller and straining them
<HazRPG> dude, I had a little gizmo for my PSX that stored the controllers away, and the PSX box, etc
<HazRPG> maybe you should just invest in one of those - it is the right size for most consoles
<HazRPG> I bought it years ago from like a game/console style hobby shop (not a big brand store) so not sure how "available" they are
<shauno> nah, they're too awesome to hide :)
<shauno> got the gun for it too, but that ended up in my "drawer of cables" because it won't work on our telly :(
<HazRPG> it was neat, it was basically like a draw thing that you could rest under the TV, or similar, and you store a controller in each compartment... the console in the main one and all the wires loop round nicely
<HazRPG> think that's still in saudi...
<HazRPG> was great for keeping dust away too
<shauno> can't remember exactly what the deal is, but the gun wants a proper crt, not lcd/plasma
<HazRPG> was just about to say
<HazRPG> its something to do with the scanlines, and the refresh rates
<HazRPG> probably size of pixels too
<HazRPG> because I've noticed some of my light guns won't work on some CRT's that were produced over the last 4 years or so
<shauno> probably because the timing on them is pretty much artificial now
<HazRPG> its driving me insane... can't find an image for that PSX storage thing I had
<shauno> heh, it's not a worry.  I like having it out.  it's like a trophy :)
<HazRPG> oh, no its because I'm looking to invest in another one - because I'm not sure if my dad will have thrown out that old one I had
<HazRPG> my psx is getting dusty with lack of use over the years
<HazRPG> that and the fact that having all my controllers stored away in a draw with other cables, is just not cool lol
<HazRPG> heh, had this in my C&P, clearly didn't finish typing it: personally, a wife that lets you have a man-cave ("office") and allows you to stay up till funny hours is always a winner
<shauno> we each have our own odd habits
<HazRPG> true... not often ya can find a pair that'll just live with them though
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<HazRPG> seems to be the trend that women would rather you live with their habits, but want you to get rid of ALL yours...
<shauno> hah
<HazRPG> I managed to get away with a few with one of my ex's, but she used it against me to dump me :/
<shauno> I've a feeling that was plan A, until I turned out to be largely untrainable
<HazRPG> yeah, but that's the cool thing... she decided to go with a plan B... most just run away
 * HazRPG grumbles
<HazRPG> ya haven't even heard the worse part
<HazRPG> apparently I was only meant to be "a bit of fun... a summer fling" but apparently she fell for me, which is why we were together for a year... according to her
<HazRPG> was going to propose to her, but about a month before I decided I would... she said "we want different things" (lies? both wanted similar house choices, life plans, etc... which we'd discussed several times randomly)
<HazRPG> etc
<shauno> bummer :/
<HazRPG> tell me about it :(
<HazRPG> I worked it out, the only thing that was different about what we both wanted... was that I didn't mind where I'd get married but had ideas about where would be good... and she wanted to get married in a church, but I can't do that without changing religion - or finding a church that would be cool with a mixed religion marriage
<HazRPG> guessing she just couldn't see the hassle finding a church that would
<HazRPG> which I'd already started looking for anyways... obviously without telling her (which probably was my downfall)
<HazRPG> I find it ironic that the guy she went for after me, was the complete opposite - and totally the kind of guy she said she'd normally avoid
<HazRPG> each to their own I guess
<shauno> well, at least you found out before you did anything too permanent I guess
<HazRPG> true... but that's just it, I don't think it would have been bad, I just think she assumed because of the way I was that I wouldn't advance
<HazRPG> which is ironic, she said I'd never go anywhere... but well I currently have 2 jobs put on hold until I finish my degree - and I now have a HND... and things looking bright, yet she's finished her degree... and is slowly moving up the retail business and things slowly to a halt almost
<HazRPG> funny how  things turn out isn't it
<shauno> I did HND .. nasty, nasty thing :/
<HazRPG> lol why?
<knightwise> morning !
<shauno> morning knightwise
<HazRPG> knightwise: morning
<HazRPG> my dad originally went to saudi on the basis that he had a HND and got himself a well-paid job with it
<shauno> HazRPG: found it difficult to translate into an equivalent in the US
<HazRPG> shauno: best way to describe it, is that its almost a degree - except you have to do work experience to achieve it
<knightwise> hey HazRPG shauno
<knightwise> how are you guyz today
<shauno> I tried to join the navy over there (loooong story), they took one look at my hnd, decided it was worthless and set about trying to get my gcse records from home
<HazRPG> shauno: seriously?
<shauno> yup
<HazRPG> companies in saudi seem to prefer those with a HND than those with a degree... just because they've got the experience to go with it
<HazRPG> knightwise: not bad, how's you?
 * MartijnVdS yawns
<MartijnVdS> morning
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/ dude
<knightwise> not too god :( gui on my main machine wont start :(
<knightwise> Grrr
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS !
<shauno> it went way downhill after that, when they couldn't figure out how to get my records from the NEAB
<HazRPG> knightwise: ouch
<MartijnVdS> banshee maintainers, y u no upload new version!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: because Rhythm is so much better?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's not the point
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, banshee has gotten better
<MartijnVdS> except the "gio" module is broken atm
<MartijnVdS> so it can't copy stuff to my Nexus One
<knightwise> does anybody know where i need to start looking to fix this ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: erm... what's it throwing up at you exactly?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: what kind of graphics chip do you have? what's the error?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: which version of *ubuntu
<knightwise> Lets see :)
<knightwise> 10.10
<HazRPG> shauno: is there more? That sentence seems to have stopped dead to me...
<knightwise> I've got an asus eeebox ( but everything worked fine up to sunday i think)
<knightwise> What i get now is just the login window
<shauno> HazRPG: nah, it just gets even less interesting after that
<knightwise> (console)
<HazRPG> knightwise: hmm, login... and type gnome-desktop
<HazRPG> I think it is...
<knightwise> command not found ?
<knightwise> isnt it startx
<HazRPG> shauno: I'm sure your glad ya didn't end up in the army/navy though :)?
<shauno> HazRPG: last I heard from my recruiter, he was still trying to figure out how to issue a check in pounds sterling, because the NEAB wouldn't take payment in dollars.  about 6 months into "get shaun's gcse records from the UK" I got bored and left the country
<HazRPG> knightwise: ah, yes... sorry that was the one I meant :)
<knightwise> user not authorised to run x server
<knightwise> (and i'm root )
 * MartijnVdS just dropped out of uni, went to program Perl for a local ISP
<shauno> knightwise: are you local ?
<HazRPG> shauno: heh :/
<knightwise> fatal server report , no screens found
<knightwise> erm yes
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: (starting X won't work over ssh)
<knightwise> i'm local
<HazRPG> knightwise: try "sudo startx"
<shauno> yeah, that's what I meant .. X doesn't like being started remotely
<knightwise> i'll do a complete reboot
<shauno> not "this is a local X server, for local people"
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> "This X server don't boot if you're not from the neighbourhood ?"
<shauno> it just looks at you funny and overcharges you
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and speaks with a funny accent
<HazRPG> :P
<knightwise> failed to load the nvidea kernell module
<HazRPG> knightwise: that after using sudo startx?
<knightwise> after sudo startx
<HazRPG> that might be where your issue is then
<knightwise> aha
<HazRPG> did you update before you turned off last?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> i think i did
<shauno> HazRPG: I dunno, the navy had been my goal for as long as I can remember.  royal navy turned me down for stupid reasons (apparently I'm not as funny as I thought), and the US navy got completely lost when examinations board said no to them.  they're used to just asking for transcripts & getting them.  the EU has these odd privacy laws which confused them
<MartijnVdS> Another reason why I never buy nviida
<knightwise> Could i try using an older kernell from the grub list ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: right removing the nvidia drivers for now, and see if it'll boot into the gui
<HazRPG> knightwise: you could try that too :)
<MartijnVdS> or reinstall the module, that should trigger a recompile?
<knightwise> erm .. and how do i do that . sudo apt-get remove ... ?
<knightwise> i could try that too
<knightwise> but i don't really know how to do that (never did that before)
<HazRPG> shauno: what was it you wanted to do in the navy?
<knightwise> sudo apt-get remove nvidia- ... and then there are quite a lot of files to choose from
<knightwise> nvidia-common ?
<knightwise> nvidia-current ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: try using jockey-text
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: instead of apt-get remove
<shauno> HazRPG: comms, vaguely.  mostly, it was just expectation because that's where the rest of the family was
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: so i just type in jockey-text ?
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, fair enough I guess
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: jockey-text --list
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it should show you a list
<shauno> HazRPG: when my parents met, they were both in the navy.  3 of 4 uncles, one aunt, 1 grandparent, etc
<HazRPG> some traditions do have to break at some point
<shauno> yes.  apparently my sense of humour is the breaking point :)
<HazRPG> shauno: what was it you said to them exactly :P?
<knightwise> it comes back with something about nvidia current
<knightwise> so now i do sudo jockey-text Nvidia-current ?
<knightwise> or remove and reinstall ?
<HazRPG> knightwise: if I recall, you need to get rid of all nvidia stuff so I'd use :: sudo apt-get --purge remove nvidia-*
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: then disable the nvidia driver using jockey-text --disable=drivername (from the list)
<shauno> I interviewed for artificer in the RN, and the interviewer took offence when I explained my understanding of the position was jobs that were too clever for grease monkeys, but officers couldn't do because they might break a nail
<shauno> I really wasn't expecting them to be that easy to offend.  but then I didn't grow up around sailors that were desk-bound.  oh well.
<HazRPG> shauno: haha, see I'd give you the job on that basis!
<shauno> they told me I was immature, and that I should either go for OM, or come back in a year or two when I'd seen a bit of the world.  so I emmigrated.
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: i think i did that , do i need to do HazRPG suggestion next ?
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, desk-bound people in both navy/army seem to be a little bit protective over their status
<shauno> HazRPG: to be honest, I'm surprised I'm still in ireland.  "and then I left the country" seems to be standard punctuation in my life.
<shauno> anyhow, gonna go catch that movie 'n stop cluttering up attempts to fix knightwise's gui :)
<HazRPG> know the feeling
<knightwise> lol shauno :) its ok
<knightwise> typed in HazRPG and am ready to hit enter
<HazRPG> shauno: enjoy! No doubt you'll still be around during the movie anyways :P
<HazRPG> knightwise: go for it :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: no, after jockey disables the driver, reboot
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> wait
<knightwise> i'll go for MartijnVdS first then
<HazRPG> ah, see I haven't used jockey...
<HazRPG> knightwise: yeah sure, go for it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: jockey is the "install non-free crap drivers" tool :)
<HazRPG> ah
<knightwise> jockey says : unknown driver nvidia_current
<knightwise> so i do jockey-list
<slackthumbz> apt-cache search nvidia current
<slackthumbz> or if you really need a gui then use synaptic
<slackthumbz> l
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: but isnt jockey a gui tool ?
<knightwise> when i type jockey-text --list i get an error code : GTKwardning could not open display
<knightwise> xorg:nvidia_current - NVIDIA accelerated graphics driver .... enabled in use )
<slackthumbz> lsmod | grep nv
<knightwise> wait , i did jockey-list --disable xorg:nividia_current
<knightwise> that seems to do something
<knightwise> but i cant get a command prompt anymore .. (grr :()
<slackthumbz> although you'll probably need a reboot if you're chopping and changing graphics driver modules
<shauno> going to sound a little daft, but what's jockey?
 * slackthumbz shrugs
<slackthumbz> I've heard the name but never used it
<slackthumbz> I just use the standard oldschool tools for managing modules
<knightwise> jockey is the "install non-free crap drivers" tool :)
<knightwise> (says MartijnVdS )
<knightwise> ah wait
<knightwise> i did the jockey thing and am rebooting the system
<knightwise> i'm getting a bootsplash screen (thats something)
<knightwise> aaaaand ...
<knightwise> it looks like its working again
<shauno> and boy is it odd being back on a dvorak keyboard :/
<knightwise> allmost that is
<knightwise> Yep Ã¨
<knightwise> we have a gui !
 * slackthumbz cheers
<knightwise> so i suppose i don't enable the restricted drivers when it comes asking about it ?
<slackthumbz> you won't get any decent 3d
<slackthumbz> or compositing
<knightwise> i'm only using boxee on it
<knightwise> nope , not using any of that
<knightwise> its just a fileserver with an ssh frontend
<knightwise> sorry , boxee frontend
<slackthumbz> ah, fairy nuff.
<slackthumbz> doesn't need anything fancy then
<shauno> I used to need nvidia drivers for that, but I think that's because I was using tv-out
<knightwise> ah , ok
<knightwise> i think i'll be fine then
<knightwise> that will teach me to sudo apt-get update
<slackthumbz> ...apt-get update just updates your repository data
<slackthumbz> it doesn't modify any applications on the machine
<knightwise> thanx everyone
<knightwise> "upgrade" then
<slackthumbz> upgrade only does the same thing as the update manager
<HazRPG> sorry, seems like a missed a bit there
<HazRPG> but yeah, grats on getting it working :)
<HazRPG> shauno: you use dvorak :)?
<shauno> on the laptop, but not on my normal keyboard.  haven't used the laptop's keyboard for a while, so it's a bit of a mindgame
<shauno> really dig the dvorak-cmd-qwerty layout, but can't seem to do it on any other OS :(
<HazRPG> hmm?
<shauno> odd to explain; it's querty when the cmd key is held
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a "Second level"
<shauno> so cmd-Q for quit, etc, haven't moved
<MartijnVdS> check the keyboard preferences
<shauno> oh I have that set intentionally.  so copy/paste/etc are still on the same keys
<shauno> but instead of being cmd-C, cmd-V, they're now J & K
<shauno> but the same physical button
<shauno> (it makes sense in my head, honestly)
<HazRPG> shauno: nah it makes sense generally - being in the same physical location n all is what we're use to, its how we type
<HazRPG> I always get confused when I switch to arabic keyset, because I have no idea where the keys are!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they're the other way around..
<MartijnVdS> right-to-left 8-)
<HazRPG> I only have it when I'm looking for films or songs in arabic, and usually 9 times out of 10... I've typed the wrong things because I suck at writing in arabic
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also more letters ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: and its technically AZERTY not QWERTY
<shauno> heh, you can thank the french for that
<HazRPG> yeah
 * knightwise has a frech keyboard too on his mac
<knightwise> azerty
<shauno> that's evil.  I'd rather dvorak.  atleast it doesn't fool you into thinking it's similar
<HazRPG> see that's the odd thing about arabic keyset, its technically AZERTY... however I don't think its possible to actually type any english letters
<HazRPG> only arabic characters
<HazRPG> I think its more to do with those letters being in a similar arrangement
<HazRPG> also, most letters I think are actually arranged in pretty much alphabetical order :P
<phonex01> ?
<shauno> been watching the Ark Royal docu on discovery.  A little ironic that they had Cameron visiting in the latest episode, talking to them about what an important job they do.
<shauno> Between it being recorded, and airing, he put the thing on ebay.  blah.
<Myrtti> boo lemsip is too hot to drink
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> Myrtti: do my trick... pour half a cup of hot water... mix... add cold water and ice after its mixed :)
<Myrtti> I ended up reading Cooking for Geeks while waiting it to cool off.
<Myrtti> which was fun too.
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> sounds like a book I should get
<Myrtti> aw, ebook wouldve been -50% and proceeds gone to Japan red cross yesterday
<czajkowski> Myrtti: cooking for geeks you say?
<czajkowski> where can one buy it ?
<Myrtti> oreilly stuff
<czajkowski> ohhh
<HazRPG> shauno: how is it that you link dropbox images?
<HazRPG> I can't seem to be able to do it for some reason :S
<HazRPG> nevermind, figured it out :)
<shauno> put them in the public folder, right-click to get the link :)
<HazRPG> argh, you've got me being obsessed with words again now xD
<shauno> wasn't me
<HazRPG> did you know admiral, elixir and many others originated from arabic?
<HazRPG> inc. algebra
<HazRPG> admiral comes from "amir al-baHr" translation: "Ruler of the Sea"
<HazRPG> even the word alcohol apparently!
<HazRPG> from the word al-kuHul
<shauno> now there's irony
<HazRPG> I always thought the arabic for alcohol was taken from english xD
<Myrtti> Im reading about iodine. interesting stuff.
<HazRPG> Myrtti: science, it works :D
<Myrtti> indeed
<Myrtti> very sleepy, ttfn
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: algorithm, algebra, alcohol, albatross, adobe
<HazRPG> see I knew adobe... because I've heard that in arabic news before
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: azimuth, coffee, elixir :)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arabic_loanwords_in_English
<HazRPG> also "thob, tobe, etc" all very similar sound words
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: was reading that last night ;)
<knightwise> man i love twidge :)
<knightwise> great twitter client if you want to cron and schedule stuff
<MartijnVdS> am I weird for just using the web site and android app for twitter?
<MartijnVdS> and facebook?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I use those...
<shauno> haha, apparently forgot to setup herself's laptop.  held down pause on the remote to reset the tv, and her laptop went to sleep.   ooops ..
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so do I.. I can't stand gwibber's crashing
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: :) donno , i never use the website , mostly tweet via tweetdeck on phone and pc,
<knightwise> and use twidge on linux
<knightwise> and gwibber
<MartijnVdS> shauno: remote-controlled laptop?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: mine has a remote too
<shauno> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Mine has a fingerprint reader
<MartijnVdS> My PC has a remote (by way of the DVB card), but it's not connected
<HazRPG> was apparently designed for media presentation... however can be configured for all sorts :)
<MartijnVdS> oh I have a wireless presenter remote
<MartijnVdS> but that only works if you put in the USB dongle
<HazRPG> ah, see this is using IR
<screen-x> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> \o screen-x
<screen-x> morning MartijnVdS :)
<knightwise> IR  ?
<knightwise> thats oldschool !
<screen-x> anyone know of a command that will follow a path of symlinks, printing each one, until a real file is encountered?
<screen-x> or is it time to fire up the bashmobile?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: bashmobile
<screen-x> ok :)
<MartijnVdS> X=$1
<HazRPG> knightwise: and yet, is still found in all TVs :P
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: wait..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: readlink might do what you want
<screen-x> \o/ readlink -f
<screen-x> thanks MartijnVdS
<daubers> Morning
<screen-x> morning daubers :)
<screen-x> any applicants to your post?
<daubers> screen-x: A couple, none that jump out at me though
<screen-x> I applied for one from linuxjobs yesterday, entered my employment history, but it refused to save it, so entered it again. Then I realised that it had saved it, but it was black text on a black background :(
<daubers> screen-x: Hah! Fail
<screen-x> ^a reveals all
<daubers> I need to ring up a client and rearrange a meeting that was supposed to be today for tomorrow as I have to fire fight an issue in Aus while they're asleep
<daubers> Looks like an SSD with an OS has cooked itself over there :(
<screen-x> oh dear, the spinning rust free future was looking so bright
<daubers> Never mind, we've sourced a replacement from an Aus supplier, just need to make them an image they can burn on to it now
<daubers> Then drive that image up to the DC, so they can download it tomorrow
<daubers> or tonight
<daubers> stupid time zones
<screen-x> daubers: nead moar upload bandwidth?
<daubers> screen-x: Yeah, quicker for me to run an 8GB file up there than push it through the offices upstream
<daubers> 1.5hours compared to roughly 6/7 hours :)
<screen-x> "never underestimate the bandwidth of a truckload of tapes"
<screen-x> cant remember where that quote is from..
<screen-x> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. âTanenbaum, Andrew S. (1996). Computer Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. pp. 83.
<screen-x> thats better :)
<DJones> Morning all
<screen-x> morning DJones
<MooDoo> morning all
<screen-x> morning MooDoo, back from nights?
<MooDoo> screen-x: no just had issues at home....everything ok now
<MooDoo> screen-x: thanks for asking :D
<screen-x> :)
<MooDoo> screen-x: nosey bugger ;)
<slackthumbz> ah, got gnome-shell compiled and running
<HazRPG> wow, how is it possible that I own the dvds for "The Net" & "The Net 2.0" boxset, but don't remember any part of this film
<shauno> the first was entirely forgettable.
<MooDoo> HazRPG: the net 2?
<HazRPG> shauno: guessing you didn't like them?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: as in sanndra bullock?
<HazRPG> MooDoo: yeah, but I don't think The Net 2.0 has her in it
<MooDoo> HazRPG: didn't even know there was a net 2....
<HazRPG> uh huh
<shauno> never heard of the second, but the first .. well, watch it :)  I'll warn that it's difficult to get 90 minutes of your life refunded
<HazRPG> Nikki Deloach is in the 2nd one
<MooDoo> HazRPG: yeah just looking now
<slackthumbz> now how the #*$% do I theme it up...
<smittix> Moaning
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I must have watched them... because I own the dvd's...
<smittix> MooDoo: You from Calvo?
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah
<smittix> Cool, Cinderhill here
<MooDoo> smittix: sweet....not that far then
<smittix> No, Do you go to any LUG's in notts?
<MooDoo> smittix: sometimes, although i've not been for awhile, nice group though
<smittix> MooDoo: Never been to any myself.
<MooDoo> smittix: we'll have to do an ubuntu hour in town?
<smittix> MooDoo: Sure, Trying to get in touch with local users. Heh your the first I have met.
<MooDoo> smittix:cool.....http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/
<smittix> They never have forums do they
<MooDoo> smittix: people don't like forums, which is a shame
<MooDoo> smittix: mailing list archives are here - http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/nottingham/
<smittix> MooDoo: I like forums heh.
<mungojerry> we need a new topic -
<mungojerry> odd shaped balls is old now :P
 * MooDoo says nothing
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)\
<bigcalm> (still getting used to this US keyboard)
<kazade> hi everybody!
<mungojerry> wifey has lost her keys..i'm worried they got left in the door and some chav has nicked them :( car is still there atm
<MooDoo> mungojerry: ouch
<mungojerry> bah swype has been really lame since i installed the new version
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: morning
<smittix> So.. Is everyone looking forward to Unity?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: back talking to us
<MooDoo> czajkowski: now things are sorted at home yes...
<MooDoo> czajkowski: and let the abuse commence...
<HazRPG> smittix: not really lol
<smittix> heh
<mungojerry> smittix: reporting bugs and playing with it, but won't switch until it offers at least a good a computing experience as what i currently get
<mungojerry> that may not be until 12.04 LTS
<czajkowski> MooDoo: that was so last week
<MooDoo> czajkowski: phew
<MooDoo> czajkowski: did you enjoy doing the podcase?
<MooDoo> podcast
<czajkowski> yeah it was nice, bit scarey/nervous but it was good fun
<czajkowski> I've had lots of pms going so that's what you sound like
<czajkowski> which is odd :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i'm sure we could hear your giggles through it
<czajkowski> yeah sorry!
<JamesTait> Another bright and sunny morning, good day everyone!
<mungojerry> the giggles were the best bit!
<mungojerry> (plus all the others bits, in case anyone takes offence)
<MooDoo> i quite like the idea of a guest host, but it would be a logistical nightmare
<popey> how so?
<popey> seemed to work when we got andy piper in, and mark, and laura
<MooDoo> popey: i'm just thinking about people that aren't in your area.  wasn't thinking skype etc...sorry lol
<mungojerry> btw who decides on the name of the pocast "mysterious girl" etc and what's the logic behind it?
<shauno> I imagine the big challenge being getting the right drinks in for the right people :)
<popey> we have a phone setup so people can call in
<popey> we dont use skype :)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I must agree with you on that (about unity)
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> one guest (mpt) even got on the train from london to my house to be on the show
<popey> mungojerry: tony does
<popey> season one was elvis titles
<popey> season two was doctor who episodes iirc
<MooDoo> i guess people will travel then
 * MooDoo proposes Ubuntu UK Live :p
<popey> i drive ~70 miles to the podcast
<mungojerry> popey: ah i was wondering about that
<popey> season three was silent films
<mungojerry> thinks popey has an understanding wife
<popey> well yeah, i wouldn't have married her otherwise
<popey> its only a few hours one evening every two weeks
<mungojerry> the LAS guys seem to do podcast everynight, and they have like 3 kids each
<mungojerry> the mind boggles
<kazade> mungojerry, I think they get paid for that though... not sure
<mungojerry> kazade: not really, only to cover costs i think
<popey> they have sponsors
<popey> we dont
<MooDoo> popey: do you accept donations?
<popey> we have no mechanism to get donation
<popey> we dont ask for them
<kazade> popey, you should set up a flattr button ;)
<popey> heh
<kazade> for beers ;)
<MooDoo> i know you don't ask, i'm sure you'd like some kit to make the show better??
<popey> s/beer/cake
<kazade> (I nearly typed "bears" which would have been odd)
<popey> MooDoo: good question, dunno really
<popey> not sure what extra kit we nee
<popey> *need
<popey> well, what I'd like to do is build a proper studio
<MooDoo> well when you have a list, post it :)  i'm sure people would love to help out :D
<popey> heh
<popey> tony owns most of the kit
<popey> we each bring our own mics, stands and leads
<popey> the server is provided by bitfolk
<screen-x> donated?
<popey> yes
<popey> so i guess thats sponsorship :)
<screen-x> \o/ for bitfolk
<shauno> or advertising ;)  I picked bitfolk when I needed a UK-based host because they got a good word on the show, and I didn't recognise any other names
<shauno> (before linode started doing UK hosts)
<MooDoo> shauno: and memset
<mungojerry> one more qu... where does the music come from?
<mungojerry> did someone record it specially? or is it a free distribution piece grabbed from the net
<czajkowski> there should be a FAQ on the site and the music should be the first question :)
 * mungojerry looks
<popey> it is
<popey> well, was :)
<popey> It's called Crazy Words, Crazy Tune
<popey> it dates from ~1927
<mungojerry> the pic of mark johnson looks a lot like popey's twin http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/presenter-biographies/
<screen-x> haha
<MooDoo> and just remember for the next podcast it's 2011 not 2010 :p
<shauno> you haven't seen popey's delorean then ?
<MooDoo> shauno: he never mentioned 1.21 jigawatts once
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> I still can't believe I forgot I watched this film before
<HazRPG> somewhat ironic
<HazRPG> considering it's a film about a girl who gets her identity stolen, and its as if she doesn't remember anything
<bigcalm> What film?
<HazRPG> The Net
<bigcalm> I don't recall having seen that one
<HazRPG> Sandra Bullock
<bigcalm> The news reader?
<bigcalm> No, I'm confusing a lot of things there
<bigcalm> Ignore me :)
<HazRPG> lol
<MooDoo> bigcalm: no the american actress, it's about a computer programmer whos framed
<bigcalm> An old employer of mine was Moria Bullock which made me think of Moria Stewart
<HazRPG> personally I'd say she was a hacker (but in the true form of the word) in that film... but hey
<shauno> so the missus comes downstairs complaining her phone makes a "strange" noise when she locks it.  like the lock sound just echos out.  so I turn it off and back on again.  now I'm the genius, apparently
<mungojerry> HazRPG: do the passwords appear in plaintext in that film?
<bigcalm> HITOMI
<HazRPG> shauno: IT professionals have been making money off that very similar technique for years ;)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: some do...
<mungojerry> in hollywood films, passwords are displayed plain text, you can dodge bullets and dive out of the way of bombs, women throw themselves at men, and nobody locks their car doors
<popey> MovieOS!
<popey> Jack Bauer uses KDE
<mungojerry> never seen 24
<mungojerry> i wonder what OS they use in bones and CSI though
<popey> I've never seen Lost
<popey> :)
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/02/ubuntu-spotted-on-doctor-who-set/
<popey> :)
<mungojerry> after watching heroes for 2 series i got wise to the idea of those programmes
<mungojerry> wonder what they use on spooks too
<MooDoo> mungojerry: macos
<mungojerry> MooDoo: they use mac hardware for sure. the product placement in that programme is ridiculous
<popey> macs look nice on telly )
<popey> :)
<popey> PCs look like.. PCs
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> can someone please guide me about http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/584214/ ?
<popey> looks like your proxy server it screwing things up
<kaushal> oh ok
<popey> or the box is broken :)
<popey> (the mirror that is)
<popey> visiting http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ in my browser here from London doesnt look good
<popey> very slow
<popey> seems to have recovered now, try again kaushal ?
<kaushal> popey: sure
<kaushal> thanks
<popey> np
<satreya> how to add/modify timezone in launchpad? I am not able to figure out how.
<dogmatic69> i thought ff4 was up for 10.10?
<dogmatic69> just ran updates and nothing :/
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: ppa?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: ignore that
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: usually the case unless you have a ppa for it
<HazRPG> ff4 will be in 11.04 thought
<HazRPG> -t*
<HazRPG> and 10.10 will probably get it in a few months or so... maybe...
<HazRPG> 10.10 will defo still get updates for 3.x though
<popey> dogmatic69: http://popey.me/gURQNN
<popey> details how to install ff4 on ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10
<BigRedS> HazRPG: it shouldn't
<BigRedS> not automatically.
<popey> no, 10.10 will _not_ get ff4
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<HazRPG> which is why I said maybe lol, wasn't sure what the exact rule... was just the trend I've noticed over years
<BigRedS> unless you add it yourself. But standard-repo-supplied versions of software never go through major version changes in the same erlease
<BigRedS> *release
<BigRedS> 'cause that would irritate many people when it breaks their things
<dogmatic69> saw this last night, just found it again https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/50244316119052288
 * popey notes thats the same link as I just posted above :)
 * dogmatic69 saw :)
<HazRPG> hmm, now that's a new one on me
<DJones> !ff4
<HazRPG> "Unable to find expected entry   contrib/source/Sources ..."
<DJones> I thought that was a working factoid
<HazRPG> for VirtualBox ppa
<HazRPG> !ff
<HazRPG> apparently not
<HazRPG> !firefox4
<HazRPG> :/
<HazRPG> hmm, I can't seem to remember how to get rid of old kernels
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: system-janitor?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not showing up on there
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: was the first place I looked when I couldn't think of the command for it
<MooDoo> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/need-to-remove-old-versions-of-ubuntu-kernel-466660/
<MartijnVdS> reboot using the new kernel first
<popey> cruft removal tool
<popey> !info system-cleaner
<lubotu3> Package system-cleaner does not exist in maverick
<popey> bah
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I am... grub always loads the latest by default
<shauno> I think the bot's just being awkward this morning
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but do you reboot often? :)
<X3N> !info cruft
<lubotu3> cruft (source: cruft): Find any cruft built up on your system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.12 (maverick), package size 100 kB, installed size 1312 kB
<X3N> popey: ^ ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: whenever new updates come in play yeah :P
<shauno> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=ff4   claims they're all in there, oddly
<JagerMonkey> I just saw a doco called "Never Let me Go"
<JagerMonkey> you brits disgust me
<JagerMonkey> I can't believe you grow people for organ donation
<HazRPG> is it bad that I smell some sort of solvent smell in my office right now?
<HazRPG> smells like a sharpie...
<HazRPG> yet I can't see any open, and is quite strong...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: someone painting nearby?
<MartijnVdS> don't light a fire..
<HazRPG> actually... smells more like brown tape...
<HazRPG> nope... found the source... >_<
<HazRPG> apparently sis left a pot noodle next to her computer >_<
<HazRPG> and she complains about my smoking :/
<popey> o_O
 * popey complains about HazRPG's smoking
<MooDoo> +!
<MooDoo> :)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | Odd Shaped Balls http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | No Smoking in channel.
<DJones> shauno: !ff4 is in the main database for ubottu, I guess its not synced to the lubotu*'s yet
<MooDoo> lol
<X3N> haha
<czajkowski> no more odd shaped ball meet ups
<mungojerry> \o/
<kazade> anyone know the shortcut in FF4 to the new panorama thing?
 * MooDoo hides when czajkowski said that
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<mungojerry> o/             - - -O          \o
<czajkowski> normality has been restored, MooDoo and davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude,  czajkowski missed you yesterday I think she needs some love
<mungojerry> i can't believe i need to resort to building a driver disk to install redhat 6 :(
<kazade> ah, ok CTRL+SHIFT+E
<screen-x> mungojerry: floppy?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<MooDoo> czajkowski: prod
<mungojerry> screen-x: usb disk i hope
<mungojerry> but still...
<MooDoo> czajkowski: and a kiss on the cheek
<screen-x> mungojerry: that really would have been oldschool
<czajkowski> MooDoo: eh no
<mungojerry> there is no floppy drive on the machine
<screen-x> mungojerry: or do it with ipmi virtual media
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok prod prod prod prod
<mungojerry> it's a network card driver i need to install :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: in death wish X
<screen-x> mungojerry: ipmi virtual media presents a block device to the OS, so you can use it to install a network driver.
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm miles away, i told you she doesn't scare me
<screen-x> mungojerry: I use it to install ifenslave/vconfig as they aren't included in the base install.
<mungojerry> screen-x: sounds like a lot of work to prove a RHEL bug :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: Her scares me keeps coming through Wolverhampton at the dead of night
<screen-x> mungojerry: or less work, as it doesn't involve leaving my desk :p
<MooDoo> davmor2: well put up a road block, no czajkowski's allowed
<shauno> sounds like summat you'd see in The Sun :/
<davmor2> MooDoo: she comes on the train it would just rail through an block
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah that pesky cz>tab>
<czajkowski> >:(
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha don't think czajkowski won't of seen that cause you changed a character
<czajkowski> :p
<davmor2> told you so
<MooDoo> davmor2: bugger....
<MooDoo> davmor2: think i'm going to have to become a prodding ninja....silent but deadly
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you owe me a pint
<czajkowski> shrup
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes i do owe you one...and thanks for reminding m
<MooDoo> me
 * MooDoo makes a mental note to keep his mouth shut when bating czajkowski with regards to rugby :(
<czajkowski> 7/8 times we've won :D
<czajkowski> just sayin'
 * MooDoo bows head in shame....
<czajkowski> not sure theopensourcer has forgiven me yet
<MooDoo> you only won because mike tindal wasn't playing....cough cough cough
<MooDoo> let the excuses begin
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I really wouldn't go there if I were you :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah good point
<MooDoo> Congratulations to Ireland on thrashing England.... czajkowski was right and i was wrong.....
<MooDoo> pah!
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> if we only had a quote page
<czajkowski> that would be there !
<MooDoo> :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: Good a time as any to start one me thinks :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush
<shauno> does the countdown javascript thingie move between each release?
<screen-x> Quotes http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/6TdnlUBGw5
<shauno> keep finding sites that have out-dated countdowns.  I'd have thought if the url they're sourced from doesn't change, they'd be counting down to natty instead
<screen-x> though the editability may be a slight floor.
<popey> shauno: usually it is actually the same
<shauno> hm.  just found a site that's sourcing http://www.ubuntu.com/files/countdown/display.js   which is still excited about 10.04
<popey> file a bug?
<popey> against ubuntu-website, saying they should all link to the most recent?
<Laney> WHAT! A! NICE DAY!
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski here you go! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Random_Quotes
<dogmatic69> having an issue booting a box on ec2, anyone have some ideas? here is the sys log http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1109489176
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you know you said I should check computer-janitor... is it bad that when I type in "computer-janitor find" that the first thing it says is ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.58:/: ... etc
<czajkowski> MooDoo: :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we can use that now
<czajkowski> indeed
<MooDoo> our own bash.org :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's just comedy gold
<MooDoo> davmor2: hopefully i'll not be the only one on it lol
<davmor2> Ha!
<czajkowski> I'm sure davmor2 will end up on there at some point
<davmor2> No never, czajkowski on the other hand will be on there daily with threats of abuse or worse still niceties :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski nice?  lol ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha :)
<czajkowski> oi I am nice!
<czajkowski> well more or less most of the time , but mostly I am nice and I bring cake!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we know you are :)
<czajkowski> I should be a saint for putting up with yer malarky!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: all praise czajkowski
 * gord ears perk up at the mention of cake
<daubers> cake?
<czajkowski> gord: daubers do ye have cake on highlight
<czajkowski> cant be a wise move in this channel of all places!
<gord> ... why would you mention cake if there is no cake... how cruel
<daubers> czajkowski: I can hear cake fro over 10 miles away!
<daubers> Will need to make cake for Oggcamp
<screen-x> oggcamp :)
<daubers> roughed out a design for video uploading magicness last night \o/
<czajkowski> hmm now I want cake
<screen-x> daubers: cool :)
<czajkowski> this was not smart to talk about cake
<daubers> May need to acquire some cameras though
<screen-x> have any oggcamp details escaped?
<davmor2> gord: I said czajkowski is evil but no-one would listen ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: not evil....just eviiiiiiiiiil :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: with a little finger in the corner of her mouth
<MooDoo> davmor2: just what i was thinking
<shauno> ah.  seems there isn't a release countdown for natty yet.  still, not sure the js should point to 10.04 :)  (yes, I did the bug thing)
<daubers> screen-x: Might have done if popeys windows where transparent http://twitpic.com/4bydzq
<popey> hehehe
<popey> deliberate, that
<mungojerry> shauno: are we counting down to beta 1 or the release though :P
<daubers> Heh, I wondered when i saw it
<shauno> mungojerry: no idea, I do LTS :)
<mungojerry> laughs at popey and humphreybc's twitter convo
<screen-x> daubers: hadn't seen that ;-)
 * bigcalm is easily pleased
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> microding dinged :D
<bigcalm> Nice when somebody with lots of followers but follows few people themself then starts following you
<mungojerry> can't parse that sentence,...too many follows
<bigcalm> Heh
 * shauno follows bigcalm's followers
<bigcalm> shauno: lot of spam bots in that list, have fun :)
<mungojerry> notes that his twitter account is not twitter.com/mungojerry
<shauno> I'm fairly neurotic about pruning those
<bigcalm> I let them follow, it's not showing up in my feed
<shauno> I like to keep a tidy house.  and besides, the 'report spam' button blocks them too, so you can do everyone else a favour with no extra steps :)
<bigcalm> Unless they have spammed me, who am I to say that they are a spammer?
<HazRPG> huzzah! I fixed a dishwasher that's been broked for about a year now :D
 * bigcalm cracks up with http://www.explosm.net/comics/2362/
<davmor2> mungojerry: I keep seeing your nick and hear Summertime
<bigcalm> SFW for a change :)
<mungojerry> davmor2: even in winter?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: rofl :)
<mungojerry> should change my nick at some point
<HazRPG> davmor2: heh, that's what I said to him the first time I saw it too :P
<mungojerry> the artist formerly known as mungojerry
<davmor2> mungojerry: it won't fit as a nick :(
<mungojerry> mungo jerry was the name i used to use for filling in forms that i didn't want to give my name on
<shauno> tafkamj .. catchy
<mungojerry> would need to change nick before turning up to an irl event
<mungojerry> would feel like a goon saying, you might know me as mungo jerry
<MooDoo> mungojerry: irl event?   shudder :)
<davmor2> hahaha
<shauno> or just don't tell anyone who you 'really' are and confuse the life out of them :)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: heh, I use to use a name generator to do the same effect for such forms
<mungojerry> bgates, bobmarley, themajesticstevejobs, monkeyballmer...
<HazRPG> someone actually went to the trouble of subscribing "Mr F The Bear" to readers digest to my dad's house once
<HazRPG> amused us no end :P
<davmor2> mine came from Suse Linux 6.3 it said for a recommended nick use 3 letters from your first name 3 letters from your surname and a number
<mungojerry> i had a housemate who used the name Paul Ants to subscribe to spurious material
<HazRPG> was even more amusing when they tried to bill us for it too
<MooDoo> we used to use 6 of the surname and 1 of the christian, b oldknow
<MooDoo> :D
<shauno> picked mine because soneil confused soneill, and vice versa :/
<HazRPG> davmor2: most schools do that scheme too, so my mate is called "coophi"
<mungojerry> does freenode allow multiple nicks to one account?
<shauno> almost got away with it, until we ended up in the same conversation
<HazRPG> mungojerry: it does :)
<shauno> services supports it.  I don't know if it's frowned upon at all
<dogmatic69> did anyone have some ideas? lost internet and logs are old
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: ideas?
<dogmatic69> > having an issue booting a box on ec2, anyone have some ideas? here is the sys log http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1109489176
<MooDoo> ah sorr
<MooDoo> sorry
<dogmatic69> i need to press 's' :/
<shauno> I'd be tempted to try #ubuntu-server.  you might need to wait until a time that's a bit more EDT-friendly, but there's a good handful in there that seem to spend an unhealthy amount of time with amazon hosts
<screen-x> dogmatic69: could you shut it down, edit the fstab, then boot it up again without that filesystem?
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i would if i knew how
<dogmatic69> dont know how i can edit the files without ssh'ing into it
<screen-x> dogmatic69: I don't know either, can you mount the root fs on another box?
<screen-x> or boot into some sort of recovery environment
<dogmatic69> nope, its not ebs
<oimon> irc is confusing sometimes...pidgin settings more so
<moreati> oimon: no argument there
<oimon> ooo its the budget today
<MooDoo> oh great
<dogmatic69> \o/
<MooDoo> good job i don't smoke or drink much isn't it :)
<MooDoo> they are bound to go up
<dogmatic69> :/
<oimon> yeah, and single-income families will get rodgered as usual
<MooDoo> we'll see in 5 mins eh!
<oimon> i like that canonical are looking at and responding to top brainstorm entries - seems like a wealth of market research in there that is waiting to be tapped in order to make the product better
<davmor2> oimon: you think that's confusing you should try empathy for irc muhahahahahahaha
<popey> haha I read "single-income" as "single-malt" :)
<oimon> popey: not sure whether to lol or cry at that
<popey> :)
<popey> oh you're mungo
<MooDoo> lets see what's new in ubuntu uk minecraft map land
 * oimon is the artist formerly know as mungojerry
<oimon> decided i should change to my real nick
<screen-x> \o oimon
<MooDoo> oi oimon :)
<oimon> you'll probably see a lot less of me when they finish refurbing my offices. i tend to type in irc while there's drilling on and it's impossible to work :P
<HazRPG> so from mungojerry you went with oimon :P
<oimon> HazRPG: yep
<HazRPG> cos that's not confusing
<oimon> it's consistent with my username on ubuntuforums :P
<HazRPG> heh makes sense I guess
<oimon> wow redhat beta 6.1 out already
<davmor2> one nick to rule them all and in the darkness bind them
<HazRPG> is there a way to merge several pdf's together?
<HazRPG> easily I mean
<oimon> HazRPG: pdf-shuffler or pdftk on the command line
<dogmatic69> what is the difference between doing "mkfs -t ext3 /dev/sdf" and "yes | mkfs -t ext3 /dev/sdf"
<HazRPG> oimon: ooo perfect, much thanks :D
<directhex> pdfmod?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: run "yes" to see what it does
<dogmatic69> :(
<screen-x> dogmatic69: so the idea of that pipe, is preumably to answer y to all questions.
<dogmatic69> oh
<oimon> mkfs doesn't ask questions though does it?
<dogmatic69> no
<screen-x> so theres no point in piping yes into it..
<oimon> glad we sorted that out :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<HazRPG> oimon: ooo, even better it crops them too! That'll come in handy for the one I'm about to work on :D
<daubers> DATACENTERS ARE NOISY
<directhex> YES THEY ARE. UNLESS YOU TURN OFF ALL THE COMPUTERS AND AIRCON
<daubers> PARDON?
<directhex> TURN OFF ALL THE AIRCON
<daubers> THE WHAT?
<MartijnVdS> THE AIR CON DITIONING
<daubers> :p
 * daubers waits for files to copy so he can leave again...
<popey> EGG NISHNER
<popey> (best said in Aussie accent)
 * daubers leaves
<dogmatic69> \o/ got the box working
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone
<alexander2222222> evening
<brobostigon> hi alexander2222222
<bigcalm> Anybody else having trouble with skype today?
<popey> nope
 * bigcalm hisses at VM
<bastubis> have trouble with skype every day ;)
<bigcalm> It's not good when you (company) pays for their services and relies upon them for business communications
<bastubis> seems to work ok on Windows but has always sucked on Linux
<dogmatic69> is it wrong to have pub keys for one server to ssh to another?
<dogmatic69> like if person hacks one server, they then have access to everything
<bigcalm> It all depends upon how much you trust that server
<screen-x> dogmatic69: you can have a pub key that requires a password
<dogmatic69> hmmm
<bigcalm> screen-x: which defeats the point of using keys with ssh imo
<dogmatic69> ye
<screen-x> bigcalm: not if you use an agent
<dogmatic69> then you cant automate things
<dogmatic69> agent?
<popey> i have a key on a box which needs no password
<bigcalm> putty
<popey> and lets you ssh as root to numerous boxes :(
<dogmatic69> popey: im thinking like ssh to replication box from actual box etc
<popey> yeah, i use it for rsync backups
<dogmatic69> yip
<AlanBell> do it in the direction that doesn't need root
<popey> its not ideal
<screen-x> dogmatic69: http://unixwiz.net/techtips/ssh-agent-forwarding.html
<AlanBell> so on the machine being backed up the root account can log on to the backup server as a normal user
<popey> the box is not accessible
<popey> its an option
<popey> but i prefer it this way round
<dogmatic69> all ssh to 'web boxes' are with pw's from the office, and there is no pw logins. running fail2ban on every server
<popey> tempted to kensington the server to something substantial
<dogmatic69> backup box(es) have no external ip's
<AlanBell> also, if the boxes that backup dial in then compromising the server doesn't compromise all the other boxes at once
<Myrtti> I've never had any other problems with Skype other than it's a CPU hog
<dogmatic69> also on all the ec2 instances 'sudo xyz' does not ever require a pw
<Myrtti> czajkowski, HazRPG: O'Reilly Ebook deal of the day has been extended, so if you don't mind an ebook for Cooking for Geeks, it's -50% still for a while
<Myrtti> the what what what
<Myrtti> Audible has Cliffsnotes version of books?!?!?!?!?!
<czajkowski> Myrtti: thank you
<Myrtti> I thought abridged versions were bad enough
<Myrtti> czajkowski, HazRPG "Enter code DDJPN in the O'Reilly cart." http://oreilly.com/store/dd-jpn.html
<MartijnVdS> if you have it you can also get 40% off the print edition
<dwatkins> brobostigon: hooray for 10.10 - my wifi works fine now :D
<brobostigon> dwatkins: :)
<Myrtti> hm, I could buy more Craft: magazines...
<dwatkins> I like Make: Magazine
 * MooDoo has just bought a peppa pig magazine
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] usb-creator in suse; accessibility in Qt, it speaks! - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4401
<dogmatic69> can anyone see what is missing? tried to add a background to the host part and now seeing some uft8 char at the end
<dogmatic69> ${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\[\033[41m\033[01;31m\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$
<brobostigon> ok, idea, as my gpu lockup bug seems to be caused by xserver-xorg-video-intel, cant i just soecify inside xorg.conf to use vesa, and be done with it. this is in natty?
<dogmatic69> does -> ubuntu@<hostname>:~$
<dogmatic69> hmm... does not actually have [\0x01] but a block with dots in it
<AlanBell> brobostigon: yes, you can create an xorg.conf and it will use it if it is there
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i have made a basic xorg.conf, could you give it a check please.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584295/
<AlanBell> ok, does it work?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: no idea, not tried it yet, i justhad the idea.
<AlanBell> actually 1024x600 isn't a vesa resolution
<brobostigon> so i need to change that to a lower value?
<AlanBell> it might work
<AlanBell> dunno, give it a try, if the bios reports the modes properly it could work
<brobostigon> AlanBell: what if i dont specify anything at all, will it just default its resolution?
<dwatkins> I think it's time to get an HDMI cable for my TV, I want Ubuntu in 1920x1200 :D
<dwatkins> oops, 1920x1080
<AlanBell> it will try and do the right thing, and it will record it's attempts in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, i will comment that line out, and see what happens, i think.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, thank you for yourguidance.
<smittix> Afternoon
<s-fox> Hello.
<dogmatic69> o/
<s-fox> o/
<bigcalm> Morning
<MooDoo> s-fox: hola
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are you this fine day?
<screen-x> it is a fine day, warm enough to be drinking squash, except I just smashed my glass.
<brobostigon> zilch.gdm wouldnt even start.
<MooDoo> pah i'm at work so can't drink
<screen-x> MooDoo: you aren't allowed to drink at work?
<MooDoo> screen-x: alcohol no, tea, coffee coke yes :)
<screen-x> yeah, squash isn't generally alcoholic :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: it didnt even get to gdm.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<brobostigon> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584303/
<gord> whoever invented the slidey platform for your keyboard to go on with some desks is evil. i hate them so much
<popey> brobostigon: what if you press CTRL+ALT+F7, do you see the gui there, hiding?
<brobostigon> popey: i just cp *.bck ed xorg.conf and rebooted, so cant try that, didnt think of tht though,
<popey> oh
<brobostigon> renamed*
<popey> cp?
<popey> sorry, you moved your xorg.conf out of the way or copied it?
<brobostigon> cp xorg.conf xorg.conf.bck && rm xorg.conf
<popey> ooooookay
<bigcalm> mv not working?
<popey> then you pastebinned the xorg.conf?
<popey> er
<popey> pastebinned the xorg.0.log ?
<brobostigon> popey: pastebined above to AlanBell, the log.
<s-fox> http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8175/c4ebdd12c74d4b3b929ecc6.png :D
<diplo> Guys, need kernel devel package on a 10.10 server, any ideas on package name ?
<brobostigon> popey: xorg.conf http://paste.ubuntu.com/584315/
<popey> how odd, wonder why you get no GUI
<popey> log looks okay
<brobostigon> agreed
<popey> brobostigon: what is this OS? is it some kind of funky thing?
<popey> or a standard install?
<AlanBell> [    27.388] (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
<brobostigon> popey: it is a stander natty install,
<AlanBell> don't think it is using the xorg.conf file you created
<brobostigon> ;(
<AlanBell> the log looks like it is loading the intel driver, not the vesa one you asked for
<brobostigon> hmm
<AlanBell> maybe put the xorg.conf inside the xorg.conf.d directory
<brobostigon> ok, let me try.
<AlanBell> and look at anything else that might be in there
<brobostigon> ok, one moment.
<screen-x> diplo: not sure what you mean, possibly linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<diplo> Package seems to have been linux-kernel-devel on older versions
<popey> 14:50:59 < brobostigon> cp xorg.conf xorg.conf.bck && rm xorg.conf
<popey> its not using xorg.conf at all
<popey> there is not one
<popey> it was moved out of the way
<diplo> hmm seems it may be what you suggested now screen-x
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> popey: i did that before i rebooted, to get things back to normal.
<diplo> Hmm nope
<screen-x> diplo: you can see the list of stuff it installed via dependency here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/linux-kernel-devel
<diplo> VMware-Server wants location of the directory of C headers files that match my current kernel
<popey> diplo: it should find that automatically
<popey> diplo: where is it looking and what kernel you running?
<popey> diplo: what does "uname -a" return?
<diplo> 2.6.35-22-generic-pae
<diplo> and it;s looking in /usr/src/linux/include
<popey> thats dumb
<popey> you could make a symlin to point /usr/srv/linux at the /usr/src/whateverthepathistotheheaders
<popey> ?
<brobostigon> AlanBell:10-evdev.conf  50-synaptics.conf  50-vmmouse.conf  50-wacom.conf  51-synaptics-quirks.conf
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that is what is inthat dir.
<diplo> Just tried full path to it ( can enter a different one ) but it still didn't like it
<diplo> Will just see how it does work atm
<AlanBell> brobostigon: ok, just chuck in the xorg.conf and give it a try
 * brobostigon just realised, he hasnt had any lunch.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, interesting, i will try.
 * brobostigon gets a whileworking lunch.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: get lunch might free your mind a little
<popey> FREE YOUR MIIIIIIIND!
<popey> there's a song there
<MooDoo> lol i was thinking matrix at the time :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tIYpvlQP_s ?
<screen-x> there's also a java mindmapping tool..
 * popey points at MartijnVdS with his right hand whilst simultaneously raising his left index finger, tapping the side of his nose.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm like SoundHound, but on irc
<MartijnVdS> popey: and worse
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good idea, i think better, with food.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i've had food and want a kip :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: anything you want me to change from the xorg.conf i pastebinnned+
<brobostigon> ?
<smittix> popey: Didn't that guy from total recall say something like that?
<popey> yes!
<MooDoo> ooo forgot about that one
<popey> TWO WEEKS!
<popey> etc
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Open your miiiiiind
<smittix> One of my fave movies
 * smittix is bored.
<exobuzz> yeh great film.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: quaaaiiid
<MartijnVdS> ?
<smittix> I got fiiive kids to feed
 * popey cuddles exobuzz 
 * popey wondrs if exobuzz is working on a natty release for joggler
<popey> that would _rock_
<exobuzz> "we hoped you enjoyed the ride" (or something)
<exobuzz> popey, should be easy to do really although ill have to downgrade x.org most likely
<exobuzz> i reckon ill have it out within 7 days after release
<smittix> Johnny Cab
<popey> dont fancy a beta release? :)
<exobuzz> i guess i could
<exobuzz> beta is end of this month ?
<popey> next week, yeah
<popey> if it's not too much effort
<exobuzz> if i have the time ill do it
<popey> did you _just_ add total recall to your wishlist?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/wishlist/253IVVZP6VTUC
<exobuzz> need to get some time to get the stable xbmc4xbox out
<exobuzz> i did yeh
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> hehe
<MartijnVdS> the DVD? Not the bluray? :)
<exobuzz> ive seen it a million times, but its worth having on dvd
<exobuzz> naah dvd is ok for me
<exobuzz> ill get blueray when its latest gen -1
<exobuzz> -e
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: 8-)
<exobuzz> plus, if i have the dvd, i feel less guilty pirating the h264 1080p rip
<exobuzz> ;-)
<smittix> heh
<exobuzz> "thats for making me come to mars"
<exobuzz> there was this great slideshow with music on the amiga with a total recall tune with lots of samples from the film
<exobuzz> loved that
<smittix> I think I remember that
<smittix> Wasnt it a demo?
<smittix> I used to love Amiga demo's
<MooDoo> first amiga demo i saw had a bjork sound track
<exobuzz> well demo coded. but not much more than a slideshow/scroller afair
<smittix> Those and messing around in deluxe paint
<AlanBell> brobostigon: go for it
 * MooDoo still has devpac
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, i have ready, will try, thank you.
<AlanBell> what you are looking for is a different Xorg.0.log, that shows more lines starting with VESA than lines starting with Intel
<exobuzz> actually there were more than one total recall demo..
<exobuzz> MooDoo, i used to use that, but for demo stuff i prefered asmone
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, letmekeep an eye.
<smittix> I used to collect Loader mid's
<smittix> how sad
<exobuzz> naah..
<exobuzz> its nice
<smittix> ComicBakery - Instant Remedy was up there.
<exobuzz> http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3ADemoDB&md=qsearch&qs=total+recall
<exobuzz> (total recall amiga demos stuff)
<brobostigon> wish me luck.
<exobuzz> smittix, if you like computer music http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Special:Modland has a good collection
<exobuzz> (i run the frontend, but the collection is managed by a swedish demoscener)
<smittix> Thanks!
<exobuzz> about 400,000 music mods in 300 formats (across lots of platforms)
<oimon> what the? i just commented on an open redhat bug and suddenly it seems to have either disappeared or i am no longer allowed to view it. no security issues with the bug
<AlanBell> oimon: maybe ask in #redhat
<oimon> AlanBell: i could try...i wonder if they are friendly in there.
<gord> unity passed 1000 revisions today \o/
<bigcalm> Anybody here know Keir Whitaker?
<popey> i dont
<bigcalm> A PHP dev, I was wondering how well known he was
<popey> aint not never heard of him
<bigcalm> -1 + -1 + -1 = -1?
<popey> -3
<TheOpenSourcerer> me neither
<screen-x> bigcalm: addition fail
<bigcalm> Quite, so tripple negatives don't make a positive ;)
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=-1+%2B+-1+%2B+-1
<popey> hahah
<bigcalm> HEh :P
<smittix> oooh bluebird GTK theme is very nice
<popey> exobuzz: you dont update your wishlist very often do you?
<bigcalm> I should put a link to my wishlist on my blog
<popey> i added beer to mine :D http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/29FWHGD2GAECA
<popey> CPUs & Beer \o/
<screen-x> wut no referral code?
<bigcalm> popey: I added beer to mine, but nobody got me any :(
<popey> :(
<popey> wifey asked me last night what I wanted for birthday
<popey> because relatives find me hard to buy for
<popey> I keep saying "amazon wishlist!"
 * MooDoo is having some studio lighting for my photography :)
<bigcalm> Ah, that explains it. The item I had added is no longer available
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/wishlist/LXT6MFP2WUWA
<bigcalm>  
<bigcalm>  :)
<bigcalm> Gah, bloody US keyboard!
 * bigcalm heads to Waitrose to get some snacks :(
<bigcalm> I have no will today
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can't believe you openly admit to want Kung-fu Panda :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: what's wrong with it?
<smittix> bigcalm: Where has he gone?
<gregoryfenton> bigcalm has more money than sense.  Whatever happened to lidl and aldi? :p
<bigcalm> gregoryfenton: Waitrose is so very much closer
<gregoryfenton> We have a local morrisons, I spend a fortune in there :/
<bigcalm> As much as I like Lidl, I dislike the checkout process
 * popey hugs amazon
<smittix> bah Aldi's Checkout is the worst
<popey> i dont think i have ever been in lidl or aldi
<smittix> The amount of times I have picked something up then put it back and walked out due to the checkout
<gregoryfenton> Aldi: the person in front of you always buys 58 toilet rolls and 100 packs of sugar
<davmor2> popey: amazon is great and on 2.2.1 of android there is an app for amazon uk at last Huzzah
<popey> cool!
<exobuzz> popey, should i update it more? there is only so much a man can want
<bigcalm> I've just installed that app on 2.3.3
<popey> heh
<popey> exobuzz: too late :)
<popey> smittix: whats wrong with the checkout?
<exobuzz> popey, have you done something? :) oh wait. someone bought me something. was that you ?
<bigcalm> popey: I hope you are never given the egg timer. The smell they give off is beyong horrid
<gregoryfenton> for people thinking we are offtopic I reckon the tills are ran on ubuntu server :D
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> the boy in the striped pjs ?
<popey> ya
<smittix> popey: One person serving 100 people
<popey> ahhhh
<popey> bummer
<exobuzz> that's very kind thanks :)
<popey> np
<smittix> And the other members of staff "acting" like they're stacking shelves
 * popey hugs amazon prime
<bigcalm> The egg poachers are ace though :D
<popey> hmm, might remove that egg boiler thing tbh
<popey> given I am quite capable of setting the timer on the oven to 00:04
<bigcalm> What size camera is the gorillapod for?
<bigcalm> I have the largest size for my DSLR
<popey> my zi8
<DJones> smittix: The thing I dislike about aldi is the way you take everything out of the trolley, put it on the conveyor & then it goes through the till before being dumped back into the trolley for you take away & pack into bags somewhere else
<popey> hopefully
<popey> oh, no bags?
<popey> blimey, thats a bit odd
<exobuzz> 4 min from cold or rolling boil ?
<popey> i put them in boiling water
<popey> although i have a joby gorilla pod for iphone4
<popey> it's not as well made as I'd been led to believe
<exobuzz> popey, have you seen that film btw ? i saw it at the cinema.
<exobuzz> good flick.. i mean.. not a nice subject. but a great film
<popey> no, not seen it yet
<popey> wifey doesn't want me to get the condiment gun
<DJones> popey: You get bags, but they don't give you time to pack into bags at the checkout, they don't have the big checkouts like normal supermarkets, after the checkout operator has scanned it, there's a space about 12" square for scanned goods
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspired-Gifts-Condiment-Gun/dp/B001FRNNNS/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2SLJT6F1GR1CX&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
<popey> haha
<exobuzz> lol
<exobuzz> nice thing
<popey> waste of money of course :)
<smittix> DJones: Yeah haha
<oimon> somebody in front of me at lidl spilled a carton of milk. checkout girl has to clear it up while we wait
<smittix> Sounds about right
<oimon> i would have gone home but lidl do flavours of haribo you can only dream of
<oimon> and their jaffa cakes are nicer
<oimon> i've usually eaten most of my purchases by the time i'm home
<smittix> I pop there for salad bags as they seem quite nice compared to anywhere else
<smittix> And once they had cases of Old Peculiar
<smittix> Which just had to come home with me
<DJones> smittix: All of them?
<smittix> DJones: If only
<exobuzz> popey, btw its quite likely that unity 3d still wont work on the joggler.. the 2d one should, i hope the performance is better though as the 2d one felt slow when i tested an early version.
<exobuzz> i guess the old/standard desktop will still be available
<popey> unity 2d would be cool enough though
<popey> nice big buttoned interface
<exobuzz> i still use jolios here. im a sort of convert. still some glitches, but its pretty ok for the finger
<oimon> what's the resolution on the joggler
<exobuzz> 800x480
<Myrtti> the amount of the royal wedding tat is amazing. How and Why on earth?
<Myrtti> I mean - NAPKINS?
<exobuzz> im waiting for the loo paper
<oimon> exobuzz: same as my eee pc ..unity 2d sucks a bit on it
<Myrtti> exobuzz: I'm waiting for the ryanair loo paper
<oimon> Myrtti: lol
<exobuzz> Myrtti, you can get a proper dispenser too http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3583943933_2d243694fb.jpg
<Myrtti> the one with the CEO's face printed on it
<exobuzz> yeh,. cant stand the guy also
<popey> yeah, i still have jolios on mine
<Myrtti> it was in their inflight magazine editorial - "in response to our competition on how to raise money instead of charging for loo visits, our favourite suggestion is the bog roll with our CEO's face on it. The plans for the WC charge have been scrapped for now..."
<exobuzz> popey, aah. so you got the latest then (since they renamed to jolios)
<popey> oh, no
<popey> didnt realise there was a name change
<popey> I'm just using whatever came on it and got automagically updated
<exobuzz> aah yeh.. if it updates you lose the auto login and need to reset the config. you might want a new image to get the kernel updates also
<exobuzz> (performance etc)
<popey> when was this?
<exobuzz> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/
<exobuzz> 12/13 march was last update
<exobuzz> 11/13
<popey> oh oh
<popey> I am an idiot
<popey> you are talking about jolicloud/jolios
<exobuzz> yeh
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | 16:30 < popey> I am an idiot
<popey> for some reason my brain made "joliOS" == "the original image that comes on the joggler"
<exobuzz> heh
<popey> so, i booted original joggleros :)
<oimon> jogglers are still > 50 quid on eeeebay
<Myrtti> awww... it's snowing again :-<
 * DJones looks out of the window at the bright blue sky
 * screen-x also has blue sky
<exobuzz> popey, try xbmc on latest jolicloud/jolios :)
 * oimon has blue sky with a bit of smog
<exobuzz> i use xbmc a fair bit with iplayer in the bedroom
 * oimon wanted a joggler but wants a cheap android tab instead
<exobuzz> also i listed to ubuntu uk podcasts on it
<oimon> for playing with while mrs oimon watches poirot
<exobuzz> oimon, ive seen some go for Â£50.. can still get em for Â£50 on private forum sales
<oimon> you can buy 10 broken ones for 99Â£
<oimon> Â£199 actually
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> probably all fried from people plugging in the wrong power supply
<exobuzz> seems a common mistake
<oimon> jolios looks like it was made for joggler really
<oimon> jogglios
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> shame they dont include a keyboard etc
<oimon> bluetooth?
<exobuzz> maybe they could hire me to help.. id love to play with linux for a living
<oimon> exobuzz: http://litl.com/
<exobuzz> yeh can use wireless/bluetooth, but they should ship with florence or something as i do.
<exobuzz> oimon, an expensive joggler?
<exobuzz> looks nice. whats the specs ?
<exobuzz> oh. its a netbook folding thing
<exobuzz> i missed that..
<oimon> netbook doubles as a joggler, nice looking linux based OS too
<exobuzz> decent specs.
<exobuzz> doesnt say what gfx probaly just intels onboard
<screen-x> mmm, chrome beta for linux now has the cloud print proxy, but you have to enable it in about:flags, then in settings.
<exobuzz> oimon, yeh it looks nice.
<oimon> also has IR receivers, HDMI
<exobuzz> yeh. at first glance i thought it was pricey but its quite ok for the specs..
<exobuzz> but it might be like apple dollars
<exobuzz> $399 = Â£399 or so ;-)
<Myrtti> http://www.tampere.fi/live/webkamera3.jpg :-<
<oimon> Myrtti: that's not right
<Myrtti> yeah, it's not, it's snowing a lot more here
<gord> its 17 degrees here - glad for winter to be over
<Myrtti> I'd be alarmed if it were any warmer than +5 here :-D
<oimon> Myrtti: has it stopped being dark all day yet?
<brobostigon> i found a solution,/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf
<brobostigon> no xorg.conf at all.
<brobostigon> i just need to tweak the resolution.
<Myrtti> oimon: sure it's called "vernal equinox"
<popey> "Since we last spoke 18 user(s) stopped following you on Twitter;"
<Myrtti> popey: lol :-D
<popey> qwitter :)
<popey> most are spammers tbh
<oimon> i went to a meeting earlier and 4 people were wearing what i can only describe as red/white striped friendship bracelets...what this means?
<oimon> ah...In Bulgaria there is a tradition called Martenitsa, which sometimes involves tying a red and white string around the wrist to please Baba Marta in order for spring to come sooner.
<oimon> seems contagious
<Myrtti> time for a new dose of cough medicine, I'm afraid I'll pop a vein when coughing
<screen-x> oimon: were you in Bulgaria?
<oimon> screen-x: no!
<oimon> but all it takes is one bulgarian colleague :P
<screen-x> Heh, just got a call arranging a second stage phone interview. That means 1) The first one wasn't as bad as I thought. 2) I have to go through it all again
<oimon> screen-x: great news :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Call doctor, ask for valium ;)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: that may be necessary..
<bigcalm> Damn you Butterkist for being so moreish
<bigcalm> Shouldn't have gone to Waitrose
<exobuzz> hehe
<bigcalm> Came back with 2 tubes of pringles (on offer), 2 packs of fingerellas (on offer), pack of 4 Wispas, big bag of Butterkist toffee popcorn, box of tea bags and 4 bananas
<screen-x> \o/ fruit
<MooDoo> hello/away brb
<brobostigon> thank you for your help chaps and gals,i think i have it. lets see if the bug has gone or not.
<MooDoo> oops
<screen-x> I have a managed switch which is dropping TX packets, but not RX packets. The worst offenders are in LAGs, and have dropped ~150K packets :( Any ideas why that could be?
<andatche> anyone in here use Zen for internet access?
<MartijnVdS> Zen?
<andatche> an ISP in the UK
<andatche> having a routing issue from a new IP range from them, was after a couple of traceroutes from another customer on a different range
<s-fox> TTFN
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mgdm> 'sup
<BigRedS> Is there anything normal-desktop left that works on 386 but not amd64?
<directhex> adobe flash, latest versions thereof
<directhex> games
 * MartijnVdS likes his fingerprint reader working
<MartijnVdS> (that's the last thing in this laptop to work :))
<MartijnVdS> only 2 "evil" drivers (fingerprint reader and Gobi 2000 3G)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Thanks for the great idea (Cooking for Geeks) :)
<BigRedS> Ahh, so old flash still works?
<BigRedS> discussion at work - my amd64 debian laptop does everything I ask of it. but it's probably using flash from about 2002
<MartijnVdS> latest flash works fine for me
<MartijnVdS> on amd64
<BigRedS> Ah, cool. It's for a work PC, so I shouldn't be doing much with flash anyway
<directhex> MartijnVdS, gobi2000 is reliable?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sometimes it doesn't come up on boot, but if it does (90% of the time) it works fine
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and when it doesn't come up, restarting the udev job fixes that
<directhex> MartijnVdS, not just me then
<HazRPG> \o
<BigRedS> i've never seen the point in a working fingerprint reader on a laptop
<HazRPG> I've got toffee ice cream :)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you have the same issue?
<BigRedS> it's a fingerprint reader right next to ~100 impressions of your fingerprint
 * HazRPG *nom nom nom*
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes
 * nperry wonders if ubuntu is missing out...
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I remember tweaking the udev bit to work better
<nperry> Fedora have a "test printing day" :/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm, I could have sworn Myrtti said it first today about that book
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: (cooking for geeks)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: oh.. but I remember czajkowski saying something about the 50% off
<HazRPG> ah
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Thanks for for the great book-idea too :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I saw a post recently about some ubuntu related books for $0.99!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Granted, they're for the eBook version... and its from amazon... but I recall their site does a PDF version for the same price iirc
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Check if your gobi device is also in the backlist
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: When I buy O'Reilly ebooks, I prefer buying them from O'Reilly (because then I get epub, PDF and some other formats)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-qdl-device-blacklist.rules
<directhex> cat: /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-qdl-device-blacklist.rules: No such file or directory
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: modemmanager: /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-qdl-device-blacklist.rules
<MartijnVdS> modemmanager                          0.4+git.20110124t203624.00b6cce-0ubuntu1
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ^ (running natty)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, this is maverick
<MartijnVdS> the bug was fixed then :)
 * BigRedS grumbles about ubuntu's insistence on a swap partition
<HazRPG> BigRedS: what's wrong with that?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: I don't want one. It just seems a waste of a logical partition when we're limited to four, and serves no great purpose that a swap file can't do neater
<HazRPG> BigRedS: Hmm, I think you have your terms mixed up there... you can have as many logical partitions as you want, you can have only 4 primary partitions however
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: you're welcome
<HazRPG> I tend to have 1 primary for windows, 1 primary for swap, 1 primary for /boot and then the rest are all logical (slash extended) partitions
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: except now I have the urge to buy lots of copies for friends' birthdays :)
<BigRedS> HazRPG: yeah. That just seems more than it should be. I just don't get the advantage of having swap as a separate partition
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: you rickrolling again?
<BigRedS> but this is an old rant of mine that's going to start boring people here shortly, I fear :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: no, "Cooking for Geeks"
<mgdm> ah :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: but I like the way you think ;)
<mgdm> hehehe
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure you can install ubuntu without having to make a swap partition
<ali1234> you can
<HazRPG> BigRedS: or at least you can with alt CD...
<DJones> I would have thought if you don't specify a swap partition at install, (livecd or alternate) you won't get one
<DJones> Hi duvelhedz How did you find the rugby supporters once you got to them at the weekend, was there much rugby involved, or was it all drinking
<BigRedS> HazRPG: ah yeah. I always forget which one's which
<smittix> Sticky Rib Pot Noodle
<smittix>  /random
<HazRPG> hmm, this is interesting...
<HazRPG> apparently I can't open the browser and type a url on the kindle unless I register it with amazon... however if I click a link on an ebook, the browser opens up and starts downloading the site down... odd...
<HazRPG> (note to self: Make a quick ebook with some useful links I *may* ever need to access on my kindle)
<gord> surely all you need is google.com
<smittix> What is google?
<mgdm> Out of interest, why haven't you registered it?
<HazRPG> mgdm: just intrigued how far I can take it without having to register it - that and I don't like to prospect of amazon being able to delete books I buy from their store at will
<mgdm> That doesn't worry me hugely, since i can count on the fingers of one finger the number of times they've done that
<mgdm> (at least that I'm aware of)
<HazRPG> if I don't register it, then I don't have the urge to just simply buy ebooks left-right and centre on their site - I look for alternatives on other drm-free sites
<HazRPG> mgdm: ah, the animal farm incident
<HazRPG> I find that rather ironic, that the very thing the book tries to portray - and amazon pretty much proves it right
<dutchie> would be better if it was 1984
<Myrtti> yay for non-Kindle ebook readers â¥
<mgdm> dutchie: it was both at the same time
<dutchie> ah
<dutchie> i knew it was orwell
<HazRPG> Myrtti: what have you got, if you don't mind me asking?
<HazRPG> also, indeed was both of them
<Myrtti> HazRPG: Sony PRS-600
<alexcockell> however, did they leave UK customers alone?
<HazRPG> alexcockell: not sure? Although would be awesome if the british power of "I'll write a letter" stopped amazon from ridding us of the books
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I like my PRS-600, but other readers have better contrast
<HazRPG> Myrtti: really? I thought Sony was worse with their DRM than anyone?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: PRS-600 works great with drm-free ebooks :)
<alexcockell> I think the copyright issue was more US-based....
<gord> sigh, why doesn't constantly refreshing the amazon site make my order get dispatched quicker
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: so does the kindle so far :P
<HazRPG> granted, epub doesn't work much to my dislike
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: If you're in the Netherlands, it's hard to buy English-language e-books
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: "You're in the wrong country, we don't want your money"
<Myrtti> HazRPG: depends on how you look at it, it's the bog standard Adobe one which doesn't really bother me after the device has been registered, after that it works with Calibre or just plain file managers just fine
<Myrtti> the DRM isn't tied to an application transferring the book to the device, so it doesn't really matter after the device has been registered
<HazRPG> same with the kindle if I recall...
<HazRPG> if fact most of them don't mind
<gord> you don't actually have to use the amazon web store :) honestly most of the books i have read on mine have been out of copyright, thus free to download from elsewhere
<Myrtti> however I was limited in my choices by a) the nonexistence of Finnish kindle books b) nonexistence of any Amazon service to Finland at the time I made my purchase
<HazRPG> gord: heh, same - got the complete asimov books on mine :)
<gord> yeah, if you don't reside in the UK or the US, i wouldn't recommend a kindle
<HazRPG> Myrtti: ah, that makes sense
<Myrtti> besides, ePub is an open standard.
<Myrtti> AFAIK
<brobostigon> good evening everyone,
<HazRPG> yeah ePub is open, Adobe has created a DRM for it too
 * gord looks at all his assigned bugs, notes they all say Fix Committed
<gord> think its time to call it a day!
<HazRPG> so there are open ePub's and closed ePub's... but really I don't mind having DRM, as long as they just don't redact my purchases from me
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good evening, :)
<HazRPG> gord: and no refreshing the page won't make your delivery arrive faster :P - I've tried :P
<HazRPG> tell you what, I'm hating the fact that its hard to find arabic eBooks :(
<HazRPG> I want to download some arabic books, to practice my reading - because I feel like a 4yo when it comes to reading
 * brobostigon has given up on 715096 getting fixed, and is using vesa.
<HazRPG> Myrtti: ooo, I didn't realise the prs-600 was a touch screen :o!
<gord> HazRPG, but its *very* important that my nintendo arrives on time!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thank god that said vesa and not vista (as I originally read that!)
<gord> amazon don't seem to understand quite how important
<brobostigon> HazRPG: phew, :)
<HazRPG> gord: :P
<HazRPG> gord: ordered the new 3DS by any chance? :P
<gord> yes! and i own a mario hat so that means i should get it before everyone else.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i tried windows after windows 2000/nt4, and didnt like it much, really.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: envious, I didn't know any better until after XP :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i began when i tried BeOS in the late 90's, and saw something so much more, than what i had,
<HazRPG> made it my mission that if I ever have kids, that they shall know about linux :)
<BigRedS> I think everyone I meet ends up knowing about linux
<BigRedS> certainly anyone who sees me at a computer...
<HazRPG> BigRedS: haha, same
<brobostigon> HazRPG: iwould say, the freedom of FLOSS as a whole, rather than any speific system.
<HazRPG> apparently one of the ways to annoy me is to dis penguins and linux according to friends and ex's
<brobostigon> HazRPG: is what i would teach,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: agreed
<HazRPG> can't wait until ubuntu gets hacked for the kindle 3 :)
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I get told off for - ranting about software freedom
<HazRPG> someone has already done it for kindle 2 iirc
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, my ranting and raving about software freedom got my higher marks than everyone else at college :P
<HazRPG> they were teaching us aspx, and I refused point blank to use it and did it all in php...
<HazRPG> despite being told I'd be marked down for it
<kvarley> How can I add a domain name to my lamp install on my Ubuntu machine, I mean so people on my network can type http://randomname rather than my machines local ip address
<kvarley> HazRPG: WIN :)
<HazRPG> it got marked at college with one mark... and I got a higher mark when it went through the marking board
<BigRedS> kvarley: add it to your hosts file
<kvarley> BigRedS: Where's that? /usr/share ?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Ah. Uni disapproved of me using gnu's fortran compiler raher than whatever we were supposed to be using...
<BigRedS> kvarley: /etc/hosts
<kvarley> BigRedS: Thank you
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, I got told off for using NetBeans for Java... and the following year, it was all that was installed on their machines ;)
<HazRPG> serves them right for allowing me to do a HND and get placement at the college :P
<BigRedS> the format os <ip address> <space-spearated-list-of-domain-names>
<BigRedS> so you might add a line like
<BigRedS> 127.0.0.1 randomname
<BigRedS> for the abovce to work
 * BigRedS can't type this evening
<brobostigon> i used linux, persistant floppies all over, while at collage, everyone complained, other than my hardware engineering teacher,
<HazRPG> in fact, I apparently saved the college loads of money by installing NetBeans on their system xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: oh, and i forgot, qnx live floppies, aswell. :)
<BigRedS> hah. actually, uni was also my introduction to winxp
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I almost got marked down for C++ because I used an open-sourced compiler... the same code wouldn't compile in VC++
<brobostigon> HazRPG: my hw engineering teacher, had never seen a live medium like that before.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats crap, what, :(
<mgdm> HazRPG: to be fair it's not *that* hard to make code compile in both... :)
<mgdm> unless you're doing something odd
 * brobostigon aplogizes for his language,
<HazRPG> mgdm: the code error was for using system("pause>nul"); that was the only flaw in the code
<mgdm> err...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh, its fine... they were just retards
<mgdm> there are better ways to do that in C++ :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: lol, ok. :)
<HazRPG> mgdm: oh I know, it was only a rough program though
<HazRPG> e.g. getch(); I think is another way of doing it
<HazRPG> I was half tempted to use "read ...." etc, but I knew that defo wouldn't compile in windows
<HazRPG> Myrtti: I'm slighly envious now... prs-600 supports memory cards!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: both sd and memstick
<Myrtti> HazRPG: inorite :-D
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, I was just generalising :P
<HazRPG> I call all types of cards as just simply memory cards
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but it has two separate slots
<MartijnVdS> that's what I meant :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah cool :)
<MartijnVdS> so you could use 64G of SD and 64G of MS :)
<HazRPG> hmm, I wonder what the battery life is like with audio...
<Myrtti> the audioplayer is horrible
<Myrtti> sadly
<MartijnVdS> I haven't even tried it
<HazRPG> Myrtti: :)
<MartijnVdS> the drawing thingy creates svgs
<MartijnVdS> (with some sony-proprietary tags mixed in, but it's still svg)
<MartijnVdS> but it's mostly novelty
<HazRPG> I think the kindle does svg too
<HazRPG> was messing with settings in calibre
<HazRPG> and the kindle was reading the books fine
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> might have just crashed chromium :-(
<HazRPG> Myrtti: how you feeling today anyways? (recalls you saying you weren't feeling too good the other day)
<Myrtti> booked nurses appointment for tomorrow, I'm short of breath a lot now and my coughing is fairly terrible
<HazRPG> Myrtti: :(
<HazRPG> Myrtti: hope ya feel better soon
<Pendulum> Myrtti: I hope the nurse can help or get you to someone who can help ASAP. Be careful!
<HazRPG> Myrtti: guessing you guys don't have a quedoc equivalent over there
<Myrtti> the what?
<HazRPG> Myrtti: like a 24 hour version of a doctor essentially, run by the NHS iirc
<Myrtti> we do have a&e that takes non-emergencies (sudden illnesses etc) in, but I can wait until tomorrow, I'm not that desperate yet.
<HazRPG> see what's what I think is odd, cos we have a&e too :/
<Myrtti> some municipalities have their own systems for non-emergency-but-still-need-someone-to-look-at-this-right-now cases
<Myrtti> our's has been consolidated with the uni hospital
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<AlanBell> evening
<mgdm> HazRPG: AKA "NHS 24" in England & Wales, and "NHS Direct" in Scotland?
<daubers> o/
<mgdm> Hi popey
<daubers> mgdm: NHS direct is just the phone thing isn't it?
 * AlanBell just got oauth working with twitter
<czajkowski> I hate buses
<czajkowski> I hate trains
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<mgdm> daubers: ah true - I've not come across a place that does it - though I've called NHS Direct and had a referral to a doctor
<HazRPG> popey: evening squire
<AlanBell> NHS Direct is great
<HazRPG> daubers: it is
<daubers> I've rang them and been put through to the Amvulance service :)
<HazRPG> :P
<jacobw> Is it possible to watch channel 4 online?
<jacobw> (not 4oD)
<HazRPG> wow, 8 more days until I make a fool of myself xD
<jacobw> How so?
<HazRPG> jacobw: chairing the next meeting
<jacobw> I'm sure you'll do it well :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: we are here to help and guide you, havea few practise runs before hand.
<HazRPG> and they say internet-related stuff isn't as nerving as real-life stuff... lol
<brobostigon> HazRPG: go over into the meeting channel, and have some practice with the bot,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I've had a bit of practice with it, got notes on my kindle already for it ^^
<HazRPG> brobostigon: just more worried I'll say the wrong things more than anything
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats good, the more preperation, the more it will put you at ease. you cant say the wrong thing, we are very open-minded.
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> my friends found it odd when they asked what I was up to one night and I said I'm writing some notes down for a meeting... they thought I was mental xD
<HazRPG> cbx33: how's the book coming along?
<HazRPG> cbx33: (realises he checked out the book a week ago, but forgot to commit the changes)
<AlanBell> HazRPG: main thing with chairing a meeting (any meeting) is that you are responsible for the pace of the meeting, and not much else
<AlanBell> you certainly don't have to lead the discussions or anything like that
<HazRPG> ... guess there's one way of finding the answer to that, download the new changes :)
<AlanBell> just make sure it is not rushed, and make sure that it doesn't drag on forever
<popey> jacobw: yes
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah, I sorta chaired meetings at college for my HND - mainly because I had the most experience with making websites
<popey> http://tvcatchup.com/watch.html?c=4
<popey> ^^^ channel 4 live
<HazRPG> AlanBell: but half the time it was mainly me doing all the talking, and giving out jobs, and teaching them bits and pieces they didn't already know... so I felt more like a tutor than anything else
 * Seeker` still remembers the epic 2 hour meeting that spawned mootbot
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I'll try to see if I can keep it within the hour (or less), worst case scenario... I don't get asked to chair again :P
<cbx33> hey HazRPG very well
<cbx33> chcked it out recently?
<HazRPG> no, only just remembered about it today
<cbx33> trying to come up with a front cover :)
<HazRPG> cbx33: doing the designs yourself?
<cbx33> want a nice image
<cbx33> yes
<HazRPG> cool :)
<cbx33> trying to think of an image that represents Git well
<HazRPG> what sort of thing you thinking so far?
<shauno> tony blair with a huge grin on his face.
<cbx33> i dunno
<dutchie> may be a bit UK-centric
<cbx33> I like the front of Jono Bacons book on communities
<cbx33> so some thing like that
<HazRPG> ah, is that the one with the elastic bands?
<HazRPG> I recall reading that at one point :)
<HazRPG> I really like the Keir Thomas book cover's he does
<dutchie> is that the one with the cat?
<HazRPG> I was thinking the bonzi tree one... but yeah he has the cat one too
<cbx33> yes the elastic bans one
<cbx33> got a link to the other one
<HazRPG> his new one has a spanner, and one that has like a package on a trolley thing too
<cbx33> the book is called git in the trenches
<cbx33> so i need to think of something that fits with that too
<HazRPG> well, here's one cover I found that has the word trenches in the title: http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/x6/x31553.jpg
<cbx33> hehehe
<HazRPG> I was originally expecting to see books with men in trenches... but I guess you can play on the idea that its usually war related for the cover idea
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> which is unfortunate
<HazRPG> so you could have like a rabbit with a helmet on or something
<cbx33> i guess the question is - should I go for quirky
<cbx33> or serious :)
<HazRPG> considering the nature of the book so far (as far as I've read I mean), a quirky picture would fit more
<HazRPG> maybe play around with how you'd envisioned your two characters to look like
<HazRPG> and bring them to life on the cover
<cbx33> yeh i considered a cartoon type line drawing on a white cover
<HazRPG> something like this maybe: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12079/12079-h/images/353.png
<HazRPG> but in a trench...
<cbx33> yes was a thought of mine too
<cbx33> or a funny little robot
<HazRPG> perhaps with a computer screen embedded into the wall of the trench for extra quirky points :P
<cbx33> haha
 * HazRPG can't really draw well, but I do have an over-active imagination
<HazRPG> ooo what was the computer show on TV called that use to show game previews back in the 80's and 90's!
<HazRPG> I'm not thinking games master... it was the other one
<HazRPG> with the random robot with TV's attached to it
<brobostigon> heres an idea, my mum justtold me, when she went to see out family doctor today, out family doctor suggested i could be autistic.
<brobostigon> our*
<HazRPG> surely they would have worked that out years ago though?
<brobostigon> bacuse of certain action, thinking and behaviour,
<HazRPG> if you were autistic I mean...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i would tend toagree.
<HazRPG> I would hate to see what a quack would call me :/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am already a depressive, and have personality disorder.
 * dutchie pokes his interent
<dutchie> internet
<dutchie> go faster
 * Azelphur also pokes dutchie's internet
<Azelphur> be a good internet and I'll bring you a treat later.
<brobostigon> lol
<dogmatic69_> how do i pass a var to a bash function ?
<HazRPG> argh... its going to bug me now...
<dutchie> dogmatic69_: function arg1 arg2
<HazRPG> I'm sure it was called "video games & movies" or something and use to show on ITV iirc
<dogmatic69_> sorry, in the code
<cbx33> HazRPG, i should recall that one
<dutchie> er, like that?
<dogmatic69_> ?
<HazRPG> cbx33: so you'll know what I mean with the robot?
<dutchie> dogmatic69_: http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/functions.html
<dogmatic69_> function(something_here){... no?
<HazRPG> cbx33: you could use something like that for the book I guess
<dutchie> dogmatic69_: no, bash is weird
<dogmatic69_> ah
<dutchie> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/complexfunct.html is what you want actually
 * dogmatic69_ knows too much php
<dogmatic69_> ok, so just use $1
<brobostigon> HazRPG: to make it worse, i looked up what it autism is, and it made as littlesense as talking to me about psychology.
<Hornet> anyone encountered a dry ice vendor?
<Hornet> for small amounts that is, eg no minimum orders of 10kg etc
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I knew a kid that was autistic... short answer is they basically react in social situations differently then other people normally would
<HazRPG> something they find funny, might not be... etc
<HazRPG> they'll laugh at inappropriate times, etc
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that discribes me, definatly.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: really? I wouldn't have said you were
<HazRPG> they're also usually very polite, but can be very rude at times but don't mean to be
<brobostigon> HazRPG: in real life, are things different than here, ?. some people say to me, iwas talking to you, but you obviouslwasnt listening, otherwise you would have gave me a cuddle.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: but, my driving instructor said, she talks to me about things, and then i cut her off, to talk about my  IT issues.
<HazRPG> I doubt that's autism, I mean i get distracted all the time, but I wouldn't say I was autistic
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ifound out later, from someelse, i made her upset, because i hurt her feleings.
<HazRPG> hmm
<popey> 'autism' covers a lot of things really.
<popey> there is a wide spectrum of affections
<brobostigon> HazRPG: but i still dont understand wht it means, mind you, i havent done muchresearch.
<cbx33> HazRPG, if you get anytime - would appreciate a look at the latest chapters :)
<popey> my wife works with autistic kids all day in her job
<HazRPG> brobostigon: this video sort of recaps it down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbeyIG7Fz8s
<brobostigon> popey: so mydoctor could be picking up on alot of different and wide rnding things.
<Hornet> read 'the curious incident of the dog in the night time'
<Hornet> I could post you a copy if you want, I'm rolling in them
<HazRPG> brobostigon: at the end of the day, don't take labels so literally... we're all still human at the end of the day and we all deal with things differently - its what makes us who we are :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: very true, i like, :)
<smittix> tumblr seems to always be down :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: labels are only there to help explain why each different type of human being acts or reacts, but again... no two people are truly the same
<HazRPG> someone once told me "you know, I can't quite put a a label on you... your just like so many things rolled into one, from your dress-code down to your personally... you just don't fit into any of them"
<HazRPG> she was studying psychology ironically
<brobostigon> interesting,
<HazRPG> no ones able to be able to put a label on me, so much so that people have started just saying "its a haz" lol
<brobostigon> hehe, :)
<HazRPG> if your doc/parents say your autistic... does it really matter? At the end of the day, your still the same person
<Azelphur> ^ indeed
<willy_1977> hello
<Azelphur> that said a diagnosis can make life a lot easier :p
<popey> hello willy_1977
<brobostigon> HazRPG: in the end, it doesnt matter, it only helps for me to help me, to understand myself better.
<zleap> and if you tell people you are you are doing your self a dis-service, concentrate on telling people what you are good at,  people have their own ideas of what autism is,  and that idea sticks,
<HazRPG> you don't need to change who you are, because that's what makes you YOU... and it's the person we all know here :)
<gregoryfenton> sorry, just catching up the thread hazrpg, my son has Asperger's Syndrome
<Azelphur> I've got Aspergers syndrome :)
<willy_1977> popey: hiya
<popey> gregoryfenton: I'd expect a significant proportion of people here have some degree of aspergers :)
<zleap> popey, yeah i nrad something similar in the jagon file about that
<zleap> read
<gregoryfenton> popey true :)
<zleap> more towards autism, i think,  it what makes hackers good at what they are good at
<zleap> :)
<HazRPG> gregoryfenton: hmm, have a said something wrong?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am who i am, an unemployed engineer, who had some physics interests.
<gregoryfenton> not at all, I just alt-tabed back in and it caught my eye
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> fair enough :)
<gregoryfenton> s/tabed/tabbed/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: you'll get work dude, don't worry :)
<brobostigon> who has*
<Azelphur> HazRPG: a label can help though, both to understand yourself and to understand others better :p
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah I agree, but you shouldn't let it become you though
<Azelphur> indeed
<zleap> i agree
<brobostigon> HazRPG: work doesnt truly matter (other thn money), i just want an interesting challange.in truth.
<willy_1977> I think "the label" may help the individual certain labels applied to me have certainly clarified a few things :)
<zleap> you may find that other hackers or true geeks actually understand you better,
<HazRPG> because if you keep telling yourself you are something... you eventually believe it to be so and start either a) using it as an excuse, b) become more of what it is you think you are... and personally I just feel that's wrong
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I see people using it as an excuse, it annoys me
<popey> i would recommend professional assesment via your GP
<popey> rather than assessment via irc
<HazRPG> popey: me?
<willy_1977> popey: oh crikey definitely...
<Azelphur> popey: I'm properly diagnosed/statemented :p
<popey> no HazRPG, we're talking about brobostigon
<Azelphur> and govornment gives me free monies \o/
<HazRPG> popey: iirc bro's doc is assessing it (family doc at least)
<Azelphur> brobostigon: yea get a statement if you can then govornment gives you free monies \o/
<popey> heh
<brobostigon> popey: that is what i have madeappointment to do, and asked her to for me to see my old pychologist, i used to have,
<popey> nice one brobostigon
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> brobostigon: if you get a diagnosis, apply for Disability living allowance and maybe Employment and support allowance if you want
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :), again like I said your still the same person regardless of what they say :)
<brobostigon> popey: they both should be able to get enough together, to make a good assessment.
<willy_1977> Azelphur: see when I see people using stuff as an excuse I feel the need to question why? it's not annoyance it's their coping mechanism after all...
<popey> brobostigon: Azelphur speaks wise words :)
<exobuzz> popey, for some reason (im not ruling out that pressies motivate me ;-) i started working on the natty release
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<popey> haha exobuzz
<Azelphur>  brobostigonalso if your on housing benefits inform them that you are disabled it can get your rates increased
<zleap> also if you have proper diagnoses then employers can't discriminate against you i guess
<brobostigon> popey: he doesnt, as i dont want moremoney from our government, i have had enough already.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: just think, you'll get the best parking spots too :)
<popey> brobostigon: lots of positive stuff comes with the diagnosis like being given more time in tests/exams
<Azelphur> willy_1977: yea, my dad continually uses it as an excuse, I no longer talk to him :p
<brobostigon> popey: i didnt know, i see.
<popey> brobostigon: you may not want it, but you should claim what you're entitled to
<popey> thats why we pay our taxes
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am having driving lesosns,
<Azelphur> ^ you can also be given exams in different formats or with a helper
<Azelphur> and your supposed to get free laptops during school too
<exobuzz> popey, having said that, i also feel that if i continue to listen to you on the radio, i should take a proper look at your pressie list too ;-)
<exobuzz> the guilt!
<brobostigon> popey: that is very true, yes.
<popey> yeah, you can have the option of doing work on a computer rather than written etc
<HazRPG> brobostigon: that's my point :), when you pass (and I'm sure you will :)) you'll get awesome parking spaces :)
<popey> exobuzz: no need :) honest
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> exobuzz: i dont give to receive, its a thanks
<brobostigon> HazRPG: lol, :)
<popey> brobostigon: how old are you now
<brobostigon> popey: 28.
<willy_1977> brobostigon: whipper snapper :p
<HazRPG> willy_1977: I'd hate to see what you call me :P
<willy_1977> :o
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> the depression could certainly be linked to misdiagnosis or lack of diagnosis
<brobostigon> willy_1977: oh thanks, i have osteoporosis, and broke myhip three years ago.
<exobuzz> i know. and it was lovely, but you give a lot too.. best radio show for sure. my only complaint is i want it weekly .. heh ;-)
<popey> exobuzz: me too sometimes :)
<exobuzz> haha
<popey> _sometimes_
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] HTC are still incredible fuckheads - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/135665.html
<exobuzz> we talking about the radio ?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Simos Xenitellis] â°ÃÂ¸Âµ Â¿ Firefox 4! - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simos/~3/HjJVhQST4bg/1193
<exobuzz> heh
<brobostigon> popey: elaborate please.
<popey> brobostigon: well, you've got to 28 without being diagnosed as being somewhere on the autistic spectrum right?
<HazRPG> actually, yeah popey does make a good point
<brobostigon> popey: yep. although it has been suggested before,
<popey> brobostigon: there's a distinct possibility that the feelings you have are at least in part related to the lack of help you've had for that
<brobostigon> popey: hmm , interesting, maybe.
<Azelphur> ++ on HTC being fuckheads in that regard xD
<popey> they asses stuff like speed of processing, expressive language skills, long and short term memory skills, visual memory skills, auditory skills etc..
<popey> what you'll learn from that is how you learn best
<popey> which can help you in the future
<popey> so it's not about labelling you
<brobostigon> popey: interesting, ok. umm.
<popey> it's about a diagnosis which can help you to build ways to deal with your life
<Azelphur> brobostigon: as someone whos diagnosed I agree with popey 100% :)
<popey> you've clearly been dealt a crappy hand, best to do the best you can with it :D
<brobostigon> popey: agreed, the more i know myself, the more i will be able to do.
<shauno> it's only a label if you choose to wear it.  otherwise, it's just another datapoint to work with
<Azelphur> indeed, my lifes still crap, but it's a lot less crap than it would be without the financial support xD
<brobostigon> Azelphur: :)
<exobuzz> damn this channel is busy..
<willy_1977> brobostigon: no offense meant... 28 is young I reckon ;)
<exobuzz> cant keep up
<brobostigon> willy_1977: but as popey said, not with the stuff got has dealt me.
<HazRPG> exobuzz: not always busy... besides if you compare to #ubuntu, you'll be lost within first joining the channel!
<popey> http://www.arkellcentre.org.uk/support/Famous-Dyslexics.aspx <- worth a look brobostigon :) might motivate you
<brobostigon> stuff god*
<Azelphur> Einstein was aspergers iirc :D
<exobuzz> popey, i sent you a pm btw. just in case you missed it
<exobuzz> HazRPG, yeh true
<brobostigon> Azelphur: interesting, you would never have known, really.
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> many people on the autistic spectrum are highly intelligent
<popey> equally there are people who have excellent social skills but can't remember where they put their keys
<brobostigon> popey: like einstein,
<popey> people have different ways that their issues manifest themselves
<popey> ooo exobuzz
<brobostigon> ok, yes, that makes sense.
<popey> first step is assesment, yeah :)
<brobostigon> popey: two weeks time, i am seeing my doctor,
<mgdm> brobostigon: I doubt "good luck" is the correct term, but I can't think of the right one... hope it goes well
<popey> yeah, same here
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> hope you get what you want from it
<willy_1977> brobostigon: I apologise.
<brobostigon> :) thanks guys and gals.
 * willy_1977 like exobuzz is struggling to keep up ;)
<popey> my bed is calling me
<mgdm> g'night popey
<brobostigon> popey: what i get from it, isnt importent,
<popey> nn
<brobostigon> nos da popey
<HazRPG> popey: night dude
<willy_1977> popey: g'night.
<exobuzz> i only see highlighted text, and i just keep seeing a bright red willy
<willy_1977> oooer... missus...
<brobostigon> willy_1977: apology accepted, i have a young mind, but an old body,
<exobuzz> nite
<Azelphur> brobostigon: if you get statemented and want to get the benefits I can tell you most of the stuff about it :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: erm... yeah saying "good luck" just sounds wrong, but hopefully the news will help your life a lot more (regardless of the outcome)
<brobostigon> Azelphur: thank you,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: like I said, your still the same guy we all know and love :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<brobostigon> HazRPG: as i like to say, it helps me deal with things better, as i understand myself better.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: you might like to join #wrongplanet
<brobostigon> AlanBell: uhh, ?
<ascenseur> evening all
<brobostigon> noswaith dda ascenseur
<ascenseur> aha, noswaith dda brobostigon ;)
<HazRPG> ascenseur: evening squire
<ascenseur> long time no see
<ascenseur> HazRPG: ah, bonsoir monsieur, Ã§a va?
 * dwatkins notes a distinct lack of howtos online for 'How to add a public key to the authorized_keys file in one line' and writes one
<dwatkins> ...and hello again fellow Ubuntu fans :)
<ascenseur> night you lot ;)
<HazRPG> er... JeÂ suisÂ bonÂ merci... I thin
<HazRPG> think*
<HazRPG> dwatkins: ?
<willy_1977> ah... bonnet de douche, bonnet de douche... Rodney :)
<HazRPG> my sister just gave me a pack of money-head sweets! woo!
<HazRPG> willy_1977: shower cap?
<dwatkins> HazRPG: this...
<dwatkins> ssh-keygen -N '' -t rsa && ssh example.com 'cat >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys' < ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub`
<HazRPG> hmm, that's weird... because I'm sure douche means "wash up" in arabic lol
<willy_1977> HazRPG: I dunno it just sounds french don't it  (see only fools n horses)
<HazRPG> willy_1977: yeah, I got the reference when you had Rodney at the end ;)
<dwatkins> Both meanings have the same roots, HazRPG - I suggest looking it uup as I'd rather not describe it here ;)
<HazRPG> dwatkins: I want to say I know what that means... but I honestly don't... I recognise the authorized_keys file because I've used that for setting up ssh keys on my server
<brobostigon> huge lag disconnected me. :(
<dwatkins> The ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file contains  a list of public keys which the server recognises as being from your client systems.
<HazRPG> dwatkins: no need to look it up... I already know, its a... disturbing topic lol
<HazRPG> which is why I rather it when my gran says "rooh shataf" instead of "khud douche" which both mean the same thing
<HazRPG> "go wash up"
<willy_1977> oooo no I don't like the sound of either of those...
<dwatkins> Let's leave that conversation right there, shall we?
<dwatkins> I booted up my laptop for some reason, but I forgot it.
<willy_1977> so... this authorized_keys file... :)
<HazRPG> lol
<dwatkins> yes, it's very handy, willy_1977
<willy_1977> would that store things like the GPG public keys? or am I barking up the wrong tree there?
<dwatkins> The first part of my one-liner will generate you a set of keys with no passphrase, make sure you always lock your screen if you implement this.
 * HazRPG proceeds to read the link from earlier labelled "HTC are still incredible ..."
<willy_1977> so I went through the setting up your dev system wiki yesterday and it got me generating gpg keys (hence why I'm asking...) actually I think I'll go n take a look :D
<dwatkins> willy_1977: GPG is a separate application to ssh, I believe they use the same security concepts of public vs private keys, but use them in different ways. You may be able to share keyss between them, but I don't know how that works.
<willy_1977> yep, I actually missed .ssh in your original mention ;)
<dwatkins> ah I see, it's the same story about Alice and Bob just in a different setting.
<willy_1977> I think I'm kinda with you now...
<dwatkins> for more details, see the Alice and Bob After Dinner Speech: http://downlode.org/Etext/alicebob.html
<dwatkins> "...whenever a coding theorist wants to describe a transaction between two parties he doesn't call then A and B. No. For some longstanding traditional reason he calls them Alice and Bob."
<shauno> hah, I like that: "A coding theorist is someone who doesn't think Alice is crazy."
<HazRPG> :P
<dwatkins> yea, it's awesome
<willy_1977> yep alice and bob... me likey (I'm a slow reader obviously)
<willy_1977> reet bed is calling, catch you around later nice to meet a few peeps.
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/177/ for alice/bob/eve fans
<nigelb> AlanBell: 'There is an XKCD for everything'
<brobostigon> thank you for you help and guidence earlier, chaps and gals, :)
<zleap> yw
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no probs dude :)
 * brobostigon hugs everyone.
<brobostigon> :)
 * HazRPG hugs brobostigon
<zleap> :)
<brobostigon> good night everyone
<shauno> randomly interesting; mc 1.4, players get their own spawnpoints (set by sleeping in a bed)
<directhex> oh, i was gonna try that 256x256 tileset
<shauno> haven't messed with that too much.  most my crashes seem to be GL based already :/
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-24
<hamitron> bah, just cba
<shauno> ?
<hamitron> ya know the feeling when there are things you want to do
<hamitron> just can't be bothered
<hamitron> :
<hamitron> ?
<shauno> it is midnight, which always makes procrastination a sane option
<dwatkins> Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
<hamitron> so true, only I seem to be doing that most days with some stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> I have a long list of stuff to do, and sometimes I manage to make it smaller, but most days it just gets longer and I do the stuff that's urgent. I should really set aside time to do the less urgent stuff.
<dwatkins> In other news, I require sleep, be seeing you :)
<hamitron> laters
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> hamitron, depression?
<hamitron> directhex: don't think so, just a lack of interest
<hamitron> and lack of urgancy
<hamitron> things that don't need doing and I hate doing, often never get done
<shauno> grr.  don't like sites that automatically try to submit a textbox when I hit enter
<shauno> leaving a comment on stack exchange, I had to go back and edit it 3 times because I do tend to type in well-formed paragraphs :/
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> anyone tried CAELinux?
<shauno> never heard of it
<hamitron> based on ubuntu with loads of nice engineering stuff
<shauno> never understood why things like that put the effort into being their own distro.  surely it'd be easier to have a repo & a metapackage
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I can't find the mini.iso download page
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> google \o/
<HazRPG> hmm, currently trying to make my own calibre news recipe
<HazRPG> woot!
<HazRPG> I think I may have just made my first calibre recipe!
<shauno> \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: you got an eReader of some description?
<shauno> nope
<shauno> was considering getting an ipad when they come out on friday, but decided I'd be better off replacing my laptop first
<shauno> (still tempted, but gotta wait to see what the taxman does to me first)
<hamitron> he will rape you like normal ;/
<shauno> worse than normal :(  my next pay packet is for 10 weeks worth of salary
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'm considering getting a new bike
<shauno> which means I get to pay the "harder, harder" bracket on atleast half of that
<hamitron> motorbike that is
<hamitron> I have a small 125cc that uses hardly any fuel, but is slow... and a classic bigger bike that uses more than a car
<hamitron> thinking I could get something to go somewhere between the 2 for general use
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> hmm... having a hard time working this out :/
<HazRPG> managed to make a recipe to download planet ubuntu-uk
<HazRPG> however, I would like it to parse the author's name though
<HazRPG> of the article, and maybe a link for those that have internet-enabled readers
<HazRPG> (link to the actual article, or even the author's site if one is in the RSS)
<ali1234> why don't you use the rss feed
<shauno> slow night :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: I am, but calibre's automagic way doesn't automatically include the author's name nor link
<HazRPG> it just seems to ignore those tags
<HazRPG> I've gave up on that for now though
<HazRPG> currently trying to filter through and remove crud from an arabic news feed
<HazRPG> because I really do want to improve my arabic reading skills
<HazRPG> considering it takes me 3hrs to read maybe a 5 page kids book
<HazRPG> so far looking good, managed to get rid of A LOT of the random crap  that seems to get placed around
<HazRPG> can't seem to get rid of the tweet link, because it doesn't use a regular CSS expression in the html
<HazRPG> instead of using a class, etc
<HazRPG> its using the style tag for just that one section, and seems like they just c&p-ed code for that bit
<HazRPG> ... I bet you after all this work I find out that when it does compile properly that it doesn't work on my kindle due to lack of fonts :/
<HazRPG> *facepalm* it doesn't pick up the arabic fonts (just tested before I go further with this)
<shauno> I tend to just use google reader, but it doesn't handle duplicates nicely
<HazRPG> shauno: you mean duplicate feeds?
<shauno> well, specifically with planets, it's perfectly normal for the same post to show up on more than one
<shauno> so if someone's aggregated on more than one planet, I'll get their post multiple times
<HazRPG> I worded that badly, I mean two two of the same RSS feeds being added by mistake (e.g. I subscribe to PUUK, then manually added it because I thought it wasn't already there)
<HazRPG> oh, I see
<HazRPG> I don't think any RSS reader removes duplicates in that sense, because in essence they're different feeds
<shauno> I'm sure they could be cleverer about it if they tried, it's just a pretty fringe case for most users
<shauno> it's not so normal to subscribe to an aggregator in your aggregator :)
<HazRPG> how dis-concerning... apparently I can't convert a pdf version of the mobi that I just created of this arabic news site :S
<HazRPG> yeah, that's true
<HazRPG> well there's 2 hours creating a recipe to grab arabic news into a document that I won't get back :/
<HazRPG> the result so far is almost close to being perfect - aside for the fact that it won't create a pdf version of it
<shauno> why do you need pdf? surely that's the worst format for an ereader?
<HazRPG> shauno: my ereader doesn't support arabic as a readable language :/
<HazRPG> it just came up in gibberish
<HazRPG> thought I'd test it before I waste more time on getting it to perfection, considering I got most of the major stuff out
<HazRPG> all google searches I've done point me to believe that pdf is the only way until someone hacks arabic into it
<shauno> hm, okay
<HazRPG> seems amazon.co.uk sell their arabic books in pdf form (but they don't have many)
<shauno> so what's the blocker converting to pdf ?
<HazRPG> that's just it... there are no errors, just a blank document that's 0 bytes
<shauno> awesome
<HazRPG> I know
<shauno> does the intermediary have to be .mobi ?
<HazRPG> its almost like its gone through "don't know any of those characters... erm... okay... nope still nothing..." and just finishes
<HazRPG> well since it's a kindle that's plugged in, it does .mobi by default
<HazRPG> the commands I've been using was to produce the pdf to force it to grab and pull straight to pdf
<HazRPG> that didn't do anything, so I thought I'd make a mobi which grabs fine, and then convert it to pdf... but it doesn't like that
<shauno> but if the mobi isn't being sent to the kindle, then it being kindle-native is kinda irrelevant
<HazRPG> oh no, the mobi looks fine on the desktop - its just scrambled on the kindle
<shauno> fair enough
<shauno> curious why you're stuck on using the one tool that's proving itself not to work, but have at it :)
<HazRPG> hmm?
<HazRPG> I have a feeling we're confusing each other here lol
<shauno> :)
<shauno> I think you need to find a workflow that gives you a little more control over the pdf creation
<shauno> specifically, font embedding, because so far it sounds like that's where the kindle is lacking with it's native format
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> (gibberish being it's putting multibyte characters on the screen, but doesn't have the correct glyphs available to represent them with)
<HazRPG> as far as I know calibre just makes an svg (or other for devices that don't support that) images
<shauno> which pdf works around because it has the option of embedding fonts into the document itself, rather than requiring them to exist on the device
<HazRPG> yeah, flash does the same
<HazRPG> and I knew that :P
<HazRPG> just a case of working out what to pull this document as, and what to convert it with I guess?
<shauno> well, if the tool you're using to convert the intermediary to pdf with isn't letting you do that ... find one that will
<HazRPG> the best x -> pdf tool, and see if calibre will pull x
<HazRPG> maths is always the best way to explain :)
<shauno> I can't seem to find a straight answer on whether debian uses this upstart nonsense :/
<HazRPG> erm... ... ... ?
<HazRPG> I'll bite, what's upstart?
<shauno> the stuff they replaced sysvinit with
<HazRPG> oh right
<HazRPG> sort of with you now...
<shauno> I need a vm pulled down to the bare minimum for something.  kinda irks me how cluttered a 'base' install is now
<shauno> a 'minimal' debian install has about 55 processes running straight off the bat.  that's madness
<HazRPG> there's talk about it in upstart in the debian mailing list... however this was posted in 2009 and its basically a guy saying there could be an alternative they could use to sysvinit...
<shauno> yeah, that's what I got too.  there's a post in 2009 explaining all the wonderous things upstart's going to do for them
<shauno> and then one in 2010 asking if anyone's actually started working on it yet
<HazRPG> not as bad as some windows "minimal" installs :P
<shauno> I dunno, it's getting close
<shauno> fresh from boot with "nothing" running, 97 of 256Mb used
<HazRPG> it'll never be close, by the time the next windows ships... debian will still be smaller :P
<HazRPG> fresh from boot in windows... usually about 5 times that ;)
<shauno> you'd think with a million and one distros out there, someone would make a "grumpy old man linux" :)
<HazRPG> technically there is :P - damn small linux
<shauno> yeah, I don't want busybox :p
<HazRPG> hang on a sec... your by no means an old man :P
<shauno> I've enough grumpy to make up for it
<HazRPG> join the club ;p
<shauno> the first box I ran linux on, they told me it wouldn't work because it required 4Mb.  I figured out it was only the installer than required 4Mb, and got it going in 3Mb by using two floppy drives instead of 1+ramdisk
<HazRPG> you know it's a bad sign when you start yelling "turn that loud music down!"
<HazRPG> ha nice
<shauno> I'm not quite as bad as hamitron; I'm fine with the desktop swimming around in as much as ram as it can get it's mits on
<shauno> but when a 'minimal base' ties up 100Mb, it's off to a bad start
<ali1234> grumpy old man linux = slackware or debian
<shauno> this is debian :/
<ali1234> just uninstall the things you don't need
<shauno> that's what I'm doing atm
<HazRPG> true grumpy old man linux shouldn't require you to remove, only to add
<ali1234> you need slackware then
<shauno> luckily it's not using upstart yet, so it's really easy to make sane
<HazRPG> I have thought about it
<shauno> rm /etc/rc2.d/*
<ali1234> also, good luck fitting 64 bit glibc and coreutils in 4mb of anything
<shauno> if I want services I'll ask for them :(
 * HazRPG hands shauno a partly grumpy (old) man medal
 * HazRPG then runs and hides just in case
<HazRPG> ah, humbug!
<HazRPG> figured out what the problem was
<HazRPG> calibre uses a different version of the /usr/share file
<HazRPG> its a custom one, but isn't included in the deb...
<HazRPG> or even the repo for that matter
<HazRPG> (presumingly because it'll break a different app that exports to pdf)
<HazRPG> might have to do like popey and build straight from source
<HazRPG> considering other tools don't seem to be up to the task either :/
<shauno> 8Mb used off a fresh boot.  that's a bit more like it :)  97Mb my *cough*
<HazRPG> grats dude
<shauno> ftp.kernel.org doesn't work anymore?  oh come on
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: mornin squire
<HazRPG> shauno: works fine here
 * MartijnVdS listens to (warning, starts with 30s of Dutch) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAe04td7YCw
<shauno> funky, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/584636/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: looks like they'r edoing maintenance or something
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or maybe they prefer http now
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.38.1.tar.bz2
<HazRPG> shauno: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584637/
<MartijnVdS> shauno, HazRPG: Looks like a karma issue then ;)
<shauno> heh, cheers both
<HazRPG> shauno: try pub3.kernel.org instead
<shauno> did :)
<HazRPG> and?
<shauno> it's coming down atm
<HazRPG> \o/
<MartijnVdS> but.. why use a 30-year old protocol when a 15-year old one is better (and available)
<HazRPG> cos ftp wins?
<MartijnVdS> ftp = teh suck compared to http
<MartijnVdS> at least for servers
<shauno> I'd have to go grab elinks, and a whole bunch of deps
<MartijnVdS> shauno: wget
<MartijnVdS> or lftp
<HazRPG> was just about to say wget should do it
<shauno> wget doesn't have 'ls' :)
<MartijnVdS> (which is multiproto)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: lftp :)
<MartijnVdS> or, in the case of kernels, git ;)
<shauno> lol, I don't need git
<shauno> I've very little reason for breaking "the way it's always been done" just to squeeze in whatever's trendy
<HazRPG> *nods*
<HazRPG> which is why I still prefer irc \o/
<shauno> ftp's pretty braindead as protocols go, but it's fantastically interactive
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, you cook on a log fire?
<shauno> no, I got a wife
<HazRPG> xD
<shauno> =x
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so? this is the 21th century. I'd cook if I had a wife :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I use to when I had a long-standing gf
<shauno> here's my nod to modern.  I'll make menuconfig :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Woo. Not xconfig?
<shauno> I has no X
<MartijnVdS> wow, retro
<shauno> it's a VM .. it doesn't need X.  it just needs sshd :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that radio guy almost sounds like he has two different voices (when switching between english to the other language I quite pinpoint)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lots of people do
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's well-known for linksyncing (and playing airguitar/air-drums, etc.) on-webcam :)
<MartijnVdS> linksyncing? lipsyncing
<HazRPG> I'd disagree, I just sound like I'm throating everything when I speak arabic - but my accent is pretty much the same :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Sure but I'm guessing you've had more practice than he's had
<HazRPG> oh, his english isn't bad... I just mean its almost sounds like he has a split personality lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hm.. now that you say that... ;)
<HazRPG> s/its/it*
<MartijnVdS> I have his book (full of "Top 11" lists for all occasions, and stories about his life)
<HazRPG> any good?
<MartijnVdS> ("I'll see what I can do", a DJ euphemism meaning "No" but which avoids getting beaten up by partygoers)
<MartijnVdS> it's great :)
<HazRPG> heh, I've used that excuse before xD
<HazRPG> wow, I think I'm running on the least number of tabs for a long time
<HazRPG> I have like 7 currently :o
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: quick! open reddit
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> nah, gonna read I, Robot by Isaac Asimov :)
<MartijnVdS> good choice
<HazRPG> which my googling says is the first of the robots series
<HazRPG> and consists of several shorts :)
<HazRPG> got all of asimov's stuff on here :)
<MartijnVdS> I couldn't get through the Foundation series
<HazRPG> I've read later stuff, just didn't realise it was part of a series until I found them on gutenberg.org
<HazRPG> oh?
<MartijnVdS> They're on gutenberg?
<HazRPG> Was it that bad?
<MartijnVdS> Aren't they too new for that?
<HazRPG> new?
<MartijnVdS> No it's just.. I don't know.. long-winded
<HazRPG> first one was in the 40's 50's
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yeah they're post-WW2
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: copyright extends 70 years.
<MartijnVdS> (at least)
<HazRPG> definitely got them from here though :P
<Myrtti> there's only one of his there
<HazRPG> hmm apparently I didn't...
 * HazRPG tries to think what other site he got it from
<shauno> pirate!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ebook-warez.com?
<HazRPG> doubtful
 * shauno fires warning shots across HazRPG's bow
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: amazon?
<HazRPG> hmm, can't find where I got it from now :/
<shauno> someone really needs to spoof pirates of the caribbean, with somalis downloading cars.
<shauno> not entirely sure how that'd work, but if they could wrangle keira & depp back into it, people would show up regardless
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> somehow the mental picture I get is very similar to top gear sailing a pickup truck across the channel.
<HazRPG> heh, well apparently it was in a collection of other books that are in the public domain
<HazRPG> clearly not all in there are public domain :/
<HazRPG> thankfully the rest of them are
<HazRPG> Myrtti: morning btw :)
<shauno> can't believe it's 6am already :/
<MartijnVdS> do mrt 24 07:10:49 CET 2011
<shauno> that's what I said, 6am :p
<HazRPG> shauno: indeed
<shauno> timezones should be banned.  they're evil, evil things
 * HazRPG still thinks @internet time should have taken off by now
<HazRPG> or swatch beats
<shauno> I didn't like swatch time.  it seemed to be breaking things for the sole point of breaking them
<HazRPG> whatever it was called
<HazRPG> I really like it
<HazRPG> I still confuse people to this day with it
 * HazRPG stares at his clock on gnome which he configured one panel to have swatch beats
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's the one
<MartijnVdS> People still use that? :)
<HazRPG> I do :P
<HazRPG> my website does...
<shauno> 3 people do.  and haz is 2 of them.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you're the other one?
<shauno> hah, no
<HazRPG> shauno: 2 guesses, and your first is mickey mouse?
<MartijnVdS> Time for tea.
<shauno> day/1000 doesn't seem anywhere near granular enough for anything I actually use time for
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: see that just sounds wrong at this time of morning to most folk here in the UK
<HazRPG> shauno: only because your not use to it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What would they drink to wake up then?
<Myrtti> HazRPG: ohai.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Assuming coffee = teh evils
<shauno> a shift would be 333.33 beats?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: when someone says they're going for tea, usually means they're about to have dinner (which to me sounds stupid)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'm going to brew me a large pot of tea then :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: when they mean they're about to drink tea, they usually use either "gonna pop the kettle on" or "going to make a cuppa"
<shauno> 7am would be time for a cuppa, and leave the 'evil' of choice to ambiguity :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: see, shauno just proved that xD
<shauno> too early for elevenses, too liquid for for breakfast
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Strange island-people :)
<shauno> pft.  claim coffee is evil, and then call /us/ strange!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: personally "going to make tea" is a perfectly normal english sentence when you mean actual "tea"... I find it odd that it gets referenced for food
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also, coffee is the bees knees!
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, but you seriously don't know how much confusion and heart-ache I caused when I kept using food times wrong to people when I moved back
<shauno> tea time is largely archaic, where a pot of tea would come with dinky lil sammiches
<HazRPG> "going for lunch" apparently is a wrong phrase to use for getting food at lunch time
<HazRPG> shauno: agreed
<shauno> going for lunch sounds perfectly normal to me
<Myrtti> you should read/listen Bill Bryson's At Home: A Short History of Private Life... it has a section about dinner times
<HazRPG> shauno: explain how "lunch time, going for my dinner" works as a sentence? Then "dinner time, time for tea :)" when no tea is ever on the table >_<
<shauno> because :)
<HazRPG> I've noticed the referencing for the "going" is always right, but then they screw it up and confuse me by placing all the wrong words afterwards!
<shauno> (for me, dinner is the principal meal of the day, not a given meal at a give time.  so if I snack at lunch, I have dinner in the evening.  if I have a proper sunday lunch, dinner in the evening would be unthinkable)
<HazRPG> e.g. breakfast, 11's (brunch?), lunch, dinner, supper (slash midnight feast)
<HazRPG> shauno: see, that makes sense I guess
<shauno> and because it makes sense, it's probably not how anyone else sees it :)
<HazRPG> but breakfast, 11's, tea, dinner, supper - just sounds wrong as an order of things
<MartijnVdS> sounds OK to me
<shauno> breakfast, lunch, tea (3-5pm), supper (late), and dinner is whichever is The Meal of the day
<HazRPG> heh, see that's another concept I never fully understood either
<HazRPG> the timing system
<MartijnVdS> what the fuzziness inherent in English timing?
<shauno> most likely class divides
<HazRPG> breakfast (5-9am), lunch (2-4pm), dinner (7-9pm), supper (anything before bed)
<shauno> someone who works for a living isn't going to have a full-scale lunch.  they're going to eat whatever they can as quick as they can and get back to work
<MartijnVdS> because their late/big-lunching boss tells them to
<shauno> of course
<MartijnVdS> (apparently, "boss" ("baas") is the most-exported word from Dutch)
<shauno> or because they're sat in a tin/copper mine, and anything more than a pastie would poison them :)
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I always had chips/eggs/beans or similar for lunch when I was working non-IT jobs
 * Myrtti waits for it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: and "Baas" in arabic means "stop it" :P
<shauno> I think that's the trick; none of this references anything remotely modern, else it'd make sense to us
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: SNEEZE!
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: not quite
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :)
<HazRPG> shauno: true...
<shauno> so sitting around having early afternoon tea with dinky sammiches seems as normal to us, as it would have to a coal miner at the time.
<HazRPG> for anyone interested, its @316 :)
<shauno> altho it doesn't seem as far off as it sounds.  I have grandparents in kent, and in durham, and the difference between the two is astounding
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, see I think a lot of my habits when it comes to this stuff is from my dad
<HazRPG> he hates tea for a start... lol
<HazRPG> coffee is his beef (sorta speak)
<shauno> well, that helps
<MartijnVdS> coffee beef?
<HazRPG> plus he always preferred things to be either a) pronounced properly, or b) used in the right context
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: couldn't think of the proper slang term... so went with that ("what's your beef?")
<shauno> that's usually negative tho
<HazRPG> yeah in hindsight I released that after I hit enter :/
<HazRPG> one last thing regarding the time thing and I'll shut that case, the reason for liking swatch time is because it's a better representation of the speed that passes by in a day
<shauno> go on then.  what's 108,000 kmph in meters per beat.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: wolframalpha
<HazRPG> does anything actually go that fast?
<shauno> if beats were at all practical, that wouldn't be needed :)
<shauno> yes.  this planet.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: relative to what? :)
<shauno> einsteins mom, of course
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ...
<HazRPG> I don't do well with big numbers in all honest, was the reason I got a computer/calculator
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I figure anything relative has to involve einstein somehow :)  that's roughly the orbital speed
<ali1234> multiply by 24, divide by 1 million
<HazRPG> ali1234: ...?
<shauno> 1 thousand .. beats are just day/1000
<ali1234> to convert from kmph to mpb
<shauno> oh, million to rid the kilo too
<shauno> fairy nuff
<ali1234> actually
<ali1234> metric fail
<ali1234> you actually just multiply by 24
<ali1234> because the other 1000s cancel out
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, relative to the sun :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: still a big number
<ali1234> 24?
<shauno> MartijnVdS: sorry .. tis been a long day already :)
<HazRPG> 108,000*24
<ali1234> it's about 2.5 million
<HazRPG> calc?
<shauno> 24 is a huge number.  I run out of fingers well before then.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: toes.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's the trick
<shauno> still only takes me to 18 :(
<HazRPG> shauno: really? I can count to 14 on one hand
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or binary counting
<HazRPG> more if you count in binary on one hand...
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_binary
<MartijnVdS> you get 10 bits
<MartijnVdS> or 21, if you're "creative"
<shauno> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> 2^21 that is
<HazRPG> shauno: count the segments on your fingers+thumb on one hand ;)
<HazRPG> that's what I use to do as a kid
<HazRPG> also learned to count that way due to religious school
<shauno> can't help but think it's not sane for a conversation to take this many left turns before breakfast
<HazRPG> your in a room full of geeks, what do ya expect :P
<ali1234> people who can count to a higher number than what they can represent using physical appendages?
<AlanBell> shauno: two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do
<shauno> heh, morning
<HazRPG> AlanBell: morning squire :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG, esq.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: also known as U-turn :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, 270Â°
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: U-turns are 180
<MartijnVdS> (ONE-HUNDRED-AND-EIGHTY!)
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<HazRPG> I meant the space it makes, not the physical turn itself
<HazRPG> it made sense in my head
<shauno> you've never been lost then :)  three left turns has no need to be compact
<HazRPG> shauno: I've been lost before... but I tend to just retrace my tracks and start again
<shauno> sounds like the least entertaining way to be lost :(
<HazRPG> maybe so...
<shauno> you're meant to just keep claiming it's a short cut, until you stumble across something sensible
<HazRPG> but its entertaining to see the people in the car with me (or walking... biking, etc) to go "arghhhh... we're lost! *panic panic*"
<shauno> the nifty bit of living on an island, is this actually works :)
<HazRPG> some people don't know how to just chill sometimes :P
<Myrtti> I wish there was a place with a proper breakfast in hereabouts
<Myrtti> I have trouble calling a latte and croissant or small dÃ¶ner a breakfast
<HazRPG> I don't know if its just a generally british thing... but I find when things don't go to plan, you just formulate a new plan on the fly to fit the needs of the situation - and so far I haven't met one brit that can do this successfully without panic-ing
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Panic? Brits don't panic.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: They keep calm and carry on.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: clearly you haven't been in a car with my friends
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Get them one of those posters
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's because if we get lost, we can't accidentally end up in belgium :)
<shauno> the worst that can happen is we might have to admit we're lost.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no, just France
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or WALES
<HazRPG> so far I've had the car break down due to lack of fuel once before we even left the city (was planning on filling up anyways)... and everyone in the car going "oh *cough* what we going to do!?"... I just turned round said "chill... its fine", got out the car, walked to the nearest petrol station and got a tank of fuel...
<shauno> I've actually never been to wales :/
<HazRPG> neither have I, now that you mention it
<shauno> HazRPG: I tend to tell people the only sensible course of action is to panic.  It's oddly effective at making people realise how stupid it sounds
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout"?
<HazRPG> shauno: I tend to just say, hey its me... things will be fine... and usually does end out that way :)
<Myrtti> I doubt you've really seen anyone get into panic properly either
<Myrtti> it's not that commonplace
<HazRPG> Myrtti: I lived in saudi, of course I have :P
<Myrtti> or it's not manifested outwardly
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Having had full-scale panic attacks, I know what it's like..
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: *real* brownie points to you :-)
<Myrtti> although unfortunate
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I can recognise & prevent them now, all is well :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sort of had that when I was stuck in an elevator for the first time... not pleasant
<shauno> I think the only time I've ever seen someone genuinely lose the plot, was an odd story involving hillbillies and axes.
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, of course... you hung around the americans for a while too :P
<shauno> otherwise, I've been kinda surprised at how well people can cope with things they shouldn't be able to
<HazRPG> some acquaintances (and pretty much most people in this city) just don't seem to be able to cope with anything sadly :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not everyone is a problem-solver
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I wouldn't say I was, I've just learned over the years that getting your knickers in a twist just doesn't solve anything :P
<shauno> I think the oddest thing I ever saw, was my mother turn into a dictator for the afternoon when a sibling was hit by a car
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You're a computer programmer, right?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: That means you're a problem solver :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ... *pause* nah that would be inappropriate to say out loud
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think logically, doubt that counts as the same thing...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it helps when "something unexpected" happens
<HazRPG> wrap a few if statements in a loop, with a function that can adapt... and you've pretty much got my brain
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: omg you're an ircbot? :P
<shauno> busted!
<HazRPG> might as well be :P
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it explains why he never sleeps :)
<HazRPG> xD
<shauno> well I ain't no bot!
<HazRPG> so my down-time is due to net.split?
<HazRPG> shauno: haha you said bot!
<shauno> ?
<HazRPG> ... hmm, old joke
<shauno> I think I'll file that one under unhandled exception.
<shauno> trying to decide whether it'd be kosher to call my boss and ask him if he can drop my laptop 'round, or whether I should just get off my rear and go get it myself
<HazRPG> weigh out the pros and cons
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it depends.. is your boss a nice person? :)
<shauno> I'm lazy vs call my boss and tell him I'm lazy.
<HazRPG> how far would you have to travel and how long is the journey?
<shauno> about 1hr20 there & back  (walking)
<HazRPG> shauno: thought you had a car ... oh wait that's in a different state?
<shauno> continent
<shauno> my car's in michigan, I'm in ireland
<shauno> :o)
<HazRPG> that's a pro right there, going to work is quicker than getting in your car :P
<shauno> that's one way to look at it
<HazRPG> yeah, well it amused me :P
<HazRPG> probably discussed this, but can't seem to dig it up in my internal log file, why haven't you gotten a car yet?
<shauno> I don't need one
<MartijnVdS> it's Ireland
<MartijnVdS> everything is within walking distance from the pub :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: surely that would be a better reason to have one? Considering the number of steep hills
<shauno> it takes me 20 minutes to get to town, 40 minutes to get to work, and it's cheaper to get a train to the airport than to pay for parking there
<HazRPG> or at least it was like that in wicklow when I was there...
<HazRPG> going to the pub from my dad's old mates house was easy... it was the stumble home up a (almost) 45' angle that was hard
<shauno> being that I'm not a particularly active person, I find it more sensible to hang on to that 40 minutes of almost-exercise, than start paying lord knows what taxes/fees/duties to drive there
<HazRPG> see I'm too use to moving around too much, having a car just puts my mind at ease for some obscure reason
<shauno> the question isn't why don't I drive to work.  it's why does everyone else get a place that's so far from work :)
<HazRPG> clearly you haven't lived in cumbria before
<shauno> yes, I have
<shauno> cumbria's different.  there's no jobs, so walking vs driving to them is moot point :p
<HazRPG> that's my point, cumbria has no (little?) jobs going... so driving to the closest place which will give you a job is necessary
<HazRPG> my first job was in Penrith, which is a 25min drive away
<shauno> *moving
<Severian> If I wanted to install Natty with a Gnome desktop and no global menues, does anyone here think there is there an easy way to do that?
<HazRPG> Severian: remove unity, install gnome-desktop iirc
<HazRPG> Natty still has gnome in the background technically
<AlanBell> yeah, just install natty and choose classic desktop on login
<Severian> That seems to get part of what I want.  I want no global menues, also
<ali1234> then remove the global menu applet from the panel
<AlanBell> might have to remove something to get rid of global menus, not sure about that one
<MartijnVdS> The ubuntu-desktop/unity packages on natty are broken atm
<ali1234> i might make a video on how to do it
<MartijnVdS> (just tried an upgrade, it offered to remove them)
<shauno> global menu is easy.  remove it from the panel, and it re-appears in the app
<shauno> I did that by accident, and then went \o/
<Severian> ok, I'll try that on a machine tonight.  Thanks
<shauno> I did find that a rather worrying sign tho.  I'm a mac user, and found natty's implementation of the global menu to be awkward
<AlanBell> why do mac users like global menus?
<HazRPG> Severian: best to point out... I wouldn't recommend installing Natty on a development PC, do it on a testing one if you can :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Because Steve Jobs tells them to?
<AlanBell> never ever saw the point of having half of your application in a different place to the rest of your application
<ali1234> it's pretty bad
<HazRPG> AlanBell: why is ubuntu insisting on pushing for global menus?
<shauno> I didn't say like.  just that if I'm already used to a global menu, and still found it unusuable, I really feel sorry for everyone else it's been thrust upon
<ali1234> and the best part is natty hides the menus until you mouse over them
<ali1234> something about how "modern apps don't have menus"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: because the design team thinks they're good
<HazRPG> s/good/god
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or that
<Severian> I have several extra computers just for testing Ubuntu.  I have been submitting qa tests on launchpad.  But, none in the natty cycle because the alternate installer has been broken.  I am waiting for the beta, so I can do some real tests.
<ali1234> HazRPG: in short, it's because of what i've been saying for about 2 years now
<ali1234> HazRPG: desktop is a deadend as far as selling a brand new OS goes
<ali1234> HazRPG: the money is in appstores and mobile devices
<ali1234> HazRPG: hence, unity is heavily designed around those devices and that workflow
<AlanBell> for small screens a global menu doesn't make much difference either way (so why bother) for big screens and multiscreen setups (even a simple laptop+screen or projector) they make *no* sense at all
<shauno> which is why, when the headlines said they're getting ready of ubuntu-notebook and rolling it into desktop.  what they actually meant, is they're getting rid of -desktop and renaming notebook
<ali1234> HazRPG: there's even a "apps you can download" right in the top level of the menu, while "terminal" is now about four levels deep
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they're also bad when focus-follows-mouse
<HazRPG> ali1234: which is ironic, since the developers refuse to admit that
<Severian> I have several Ubuntu servers.  It looks like Unity will not be usable on any of them, so I am preparing for how to handle them.
<ali1234> why would you want unity on a server?
<shauno> I do actually like global menus.  I just get the impression that whoever implemented them in gnome, has never actually used them  (or their own implementation, for that matter)
<HazRPG> ali1234: see I don't mind how far they hide terminal, I'll still be setting mod4+T as terminal shortcut :P
<ali1234> HazRPG: if you search the logs of this channel you'll see me ranting about how bug 1 is out dated and irrelevant... i guess i got what i asked for :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Severian> I don't/  But, my servers are not CPU bound and I like to vnc into some of them.  Unity does not work for thise at all.  I don't know what is going to happen when I upgrade them, so I need to plan.  And, on a new installl, I was not asked if I wanted Unity, so again, it seems like a plan is in order.
<HazRPG> Severian: hmm, sounds like you have the same mind-set I once had... have you actually tried managing the server without the gui?
<Severian> ali1234, Why do you think it is irrelevant?  To me, it is quite annoying that I have to build my own computer to not pay Microsoft.
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, bug 1 is a running joke for me... but only one of my friends seems to understand it
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Severian> HazRPG, Sure.  And some servers I manage with ssh.  But, one server runs virtual machines that display graphics.  I need a desktop for that one at least.
<shauno> well, turning ubuntu into a netbook OS isn't going to challenge msft's desktop share :)
<HazRPG> Severian: hmm, iirc there's a virtualbox that runs via terminal only
<Severian> Unity seems more like a tablet OS than a netbook OS.
<HazRPG> Severian: also, might be worth looking into ESXi, etc
<AlanBell> kvm is nice for remote graphical VMs
<shauno> vmware-server is headless, but it's skirting the problem
<Severian> HazRPG, ESXi is right out.  It needs a Windows machine for management and I don't allow those on my network.
<AlanBell> however I am with Severian, a gui on a server is not the end of the world
<shauno> you're going to want to install it as -server and cherry-pick the desktop packages you add on
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's on the edge though :P
<HazRPG> Severian: ah, that's just a misconception - look through the hak5 episodes online they show you how to manage via ssh
<shauno> MartijnVdS: it's really not.  it's just that -server is the last holdout of the 80's elitists, and tragically designed tools that make themselves difficult to wrap
<shauno> everyone else seems to be capable of putting a UI on a server without bringing the world to it's knees.
<Severian> I'll check those.  I did start to install ESXi about 2 years ago.  I could not accept their license, and so went back to VirtualBox.
<AlanBell> Severian: KVM on the server and virt-manager on your desktop is awesome
<HazRPG> AlanBell: see I've always liked gui-server's however the inner hacker (white-hat, I should point out) inside me just keeps telling me that having one more application as a hole in your system is just not good
<AlanBell> it connects over ssh and just doubleclick a VM to open a VNC over SSH to the screen of the guest
<Severian> I really like doing most management from the command line.  But, that virtual machine with Miro really needs a GUI to do the job right.
<shauno> HazRPG: curious, do you have a router at home?
<HazRPG> Severian: there is a headless virtualbox though :)
<Severian> AlanBell, I have one server with KVM.  I don't use it much, because the VMs run considerably slower than with VirtualBox.
<HazRPG> shauno: ... er yeah?
 * HazRPG seems to think that's a trick question
<shauno> HazRPG: how do you manage it?  rs232? 248? telnet? ssh?  or with a web-based, hand-holding UI when a httpd is just another process a router shouldn't need to be running ;)
<Severian> HazRPG, It is not just controlling virtualbox.  Sometimes I want to back a video up a bit.  Things like that.  I need the GUI.  And the CPU is not close to busy most of the time.  I am doing a complete sorce code build of a system there now, so it is busy.  But, this is unusual.
<TheOpenSourcerer> GUIs on servers is a bad idea IMHO.
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, my router has a feat. where you can enter into debug mode and mess with settings via terminal ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW :-)
<shauno> HazRPG: do you use that tho?
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah?
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: agreed, also morning :)
<shauno> the amount of people that say a server doesn't need a UI, and then put webmin/ebox/cpanel/myphpadmin/etc on it is astounding.  so apparently they do need a UI, they just haven't managed to do it "right" yet
<HazRPG> shauno: oh, I'm a hypocrite in that sense - I mean I'm running Win2003 server on mine... but it was because I was learning how to use and manage a windows-based server at one point, and it's a machine I've never took down since
<HazRPG> been spending the rest of the time trying to get out of the habit of using a gui so that I can put a linux variant in its place
<MartijnVdS> good
<HazRPG> which reminds me, keep meaning to write up my notes about installing ubuntu server on my blog...
<MartijnVdS> you installed Ubuntu on your blog?!
<HazRPG> then getting round to making some videos for it
<Severian> That must have been a tough install.
<shauno> Severian: you haven't seen wordpress run unity?  ;)
<MartijnVdS> Severian: nah, he used the "php" arch, instead of amd64 or i386
<HazRPG> Severian: lol, the install was easy... using the tools is the hard part
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: we'll get you though it :)
<HazRPG> :)
<MartijnVdS> through*
<HazRPG> I'm going to assume that was sarcasm (installing ubuntu on my blog comment)
<daubers> Morning
 * HazRPG as he nods and wakes to the coffee machine
<shauno> I actually really like apple's server admin tool.  it's just a shame that if you go behind it's back and edit files yourself, it disowns you.  something along those lines could be pretty awesome on ubuntu
<HazRPG> daubers: morning
<HazRPG> shauno: you want ubuntu to disown you!?
<MartijnVdS> dispwn
<shauno> HazRPG: well, it already has :p   but "along those lines"
<HazRPG> shauno: white lines?
<HazRPG> connecting to your mind?
<shauno> a gui tool that connects to a management service on the server, rather than running X directly on the server.
<FND> mornin' - after installing something like MySQL or MongoDB, how can I prevent it from starting automatically on boot? just remove the symlink from /etc/init.d ?
<HazRPG> *rang dang digity dang di dang*
<MartijnVdS> FND: why would you install it if you don't want to start it?
<FND> MartijnVdS: local dev box rather than server
<FND> so I only want it started when actually developing on the respective project
<MartijnVdS> FND: you could remove the symlinks.. but I'd create a VM and boot that as needed
<TheOpenSourcerer> FND: man update-rc.d
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer++
<FND> thanks
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, see now that I wouldn't mind... so long as the "management service" was only turned on when you open up an ssh into it...
<shauno> that'd be pretty sane
<shauno> it's just be nice to have any alternative at all.  atm if someone's more comfortable managing a server by UI, all the user-friendly ubuntu community can really offer them is to laugh in their face
<FND> my Unix fu is weak here :)
<HazRPG> shauno: nah, in the past I've noticed "install gnome-desktop" springs up quite a bit
<shauno> it does.  I see it in #ubuntu-server all the time.  someone asks for help installing vnc on -server, they get told it's not a server and to go ask #ubuntu
<HazRPG> ouch, tough crowd
<shauno> (ironically, #ubuntu itself is more likely to tell you to use apt-get than to point you to the software center, so no-one's quite sure whether they're -desktop or not)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, on IRC it is much easier to say to someone type "sudo apt-get install foo" than click this menu, followed by this button, followed by typing this into this field...
<shauno> I dunno.  I've supported my mother via gtalk before.  getting her to open that black box was never an option
<TheOpenSourcerer> "TheOpenSourcerer: Well, on IRC it is much easier..." Note the bit about IRC
<shauno> I don't see how text here is any more difficult than text in an IM
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: most of my advise goes like this: Click: Applications->Accessories->Calculator then click File->etc->etc->etc
<Severian> Why would anyone use Sofware Center?  It seems like the hard way to get things installed, if you know your way around a bit.
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Sorry - I guessed gtalk was voice-based ;-)
<shauno> tell libpurple that :)
<Severian> gtalk can be voice or text
<MartijnVdS> video even
<HazRPG> libpurple disagrees however
<HazRPG> sadly...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: works fine with empathy
<HazRPG> :(
 * MartijnVdS has done gtalk video chat using empathy
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't work fine with empathy though :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pidgin FTW!
<HazRPG> used pidgin even before it was called pidgin...
<HazRPG> ye ol' Gaim :)
<HazRPG> simply because I didn't want to pay for Trillian (because it was poor at the time), and no other multi-protocol app worked as good
 * FND recently started using irssi-xmpp, and is very happy with it
<ali1234> actually gtalk doesn't work with empathy any more than it works with pidgin
<ali1234> the reason they don't work is codecs
<ali1234> audio only does work though
<shauno> this is great fun.  I can't remember the last time I built a kernel :/
<HazRPG> shauno: are you just basically resurrecting an old system or something?
<ali1234> note that both empathy and pidgin will do video over gtalk as long as both ends are using open source software
<shauno> I've a funny feeling the whole thing's going to explode because I don't use initrd, and everyone else seems to
<HazRPG> FND: I'd use irssi - but I like my spell check too much...
<HazRPG> ali1234: agreed, I've had voice working on libpurple in windows before
<FND> spell-check is overrated for real-time chat (assuming you're not a moronic 13yo)
<HazRPG> ali1234: however video is a bit /iffy/ to say the least
<daubers> shauno: re gui management stuff: It's not that difficult to write really
<HazRPG> FND: no, but I am partially dyslexic
<FND> HazRPG: doesn't spell-check slow you down _a lot_
<FND> as in, the interaction
<shauno> daubers: the biggest catch seems to be that almost everyone uses a different format for their config files
<HazRPG> FND: would you say my responses were that slow?
<FND> HazRPG: well, then lemme rephrase: how often do you actually use spell-check
<HazRPG> I usually type everything I want to say out first, then correct anything that's got red wiggly lines
<daubers> shauno: You'd just have to build it in a way that was modular enough to add a module for each service you wanted
<HazRPG> I've used it maybe 4 times in the last 3 sentences?
<Severian> shauno, There are several very different init systems.  config files is only part of it.  I kind of wonder if upstart is going to be around for long.
<FND> if it works for you, great
<diplo> morning all
<FND> for me, I've found the signal-to-noise ratio on GUI clients way too bad (I used to use XChat and Pidgin)
<HazRPG> FND: also, auto-correct usually fixes most things for me anyways
<FND> plus with Irssi I get vi bindings in the input line :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: initrds are really only required where you have a distro that is being installed of lots of different machines.  I used to build LinuxFromScratch systems and *never* used an initrd. I just built the modules I needed into the kernel.
<FND> HazRPG: it's not inconceivable for Irssi to have spell-check support - not that I wanna convince you of anything, of course :)
<FND> there are several scripts here: http://scripts.irssi.org/
<shauno> what on earth have they done to grub's config file :/
<HazRPG> shauno: welcome to grub 2.0 \o/
<HazRPG> (slash 1.9x)
<Severian> shauno, you must be looking at a grub2 config.  It is pretty bad, isn't it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There be dragons in that there config file.
<shauno> I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  so far I've found a folder full of bash scripts
<HazRPG> FND: hmm, I do want to get into irssi - don't get me wrong, the default config just doesn't appeal and the time it'd take me to learn how to set it up the way I want outweighs the C&P of a single backed up pidgin file I've had for years
<FND> HazRPG: I can relate, that's pretty much why I only started using Irssi this year (and still haven't migrated to mutt)
<MartijnVdS> I migrated away from mutt when I switched to gmail
<MartijnVdS> gmail <3
<FND> you use the web interface?
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, grub.cfg is what your looking for I'm guessing?
<shauno> nah, /etc/grub.d.  grub.cfg told me off for daring look at it.
<shauno> heh.  panic because it can't find the root device.
<Severian> Sometime you have to change grub.cfg, no matter what it says.
<shauno> it used to be the default was whatever the root was when the kernel was built.  apparently that doesn't work anymore either
<FND> grub2 has me similarly irritated as desktop-couch - I want my transparent dotfiles back!
 * FND aspires to be a grumpy old bastard
<Severian> Don't talk about your mother like that, FND
<Severian> You can still use grub, but it is more work.  I use it on this system.
<FND> well, yeah, I could also use Gentoo - but I accept Ubuntu's choices for the convenience
<FND> which doesn't mean I don't bitch like a sissy
<Severian> I use grub on this Ubuntu Maverick system.
<shauno> I whine a lot.  I'm trying to follow thru a book on kernel internals, yet I'm struggling to even boot a kernel because there's so made levels of handholding in the way
<FND> FWIW, grub2 has nothing on Rails when it comes to awfulness
<shauno> I really wish they'd quit fixing the bits that aren't broken, and worry about those that are
<Severian> Is made another word for many in your usage?
 * HazRPG starting to feel tried
<HazRPG> shauno: hand-holding is the future, don't cha know :P
<shauno> Severian: yeah, my brain isn't on the same page as me anymore.  I shouldn't be awake this late :)
<FND> HazRPG: you joke, but it's true :(
<MartijnVdS> The Beatles started it.. â« I wanna hold your haaaand
<HazRPG> FND: sadly... I know >_<
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
<HazRPG> FND: Have you noticed that your name has a sad face on it? i.e. D:
<Severian> A little hand holding in the system is OK.  As long, as it is possible to avoid it if you don't need it.  I was really frustrated with Update Manager until I stopped it from starting up.
<FND> hah! well, that's almost Freudian
 * FND hands HazRPG a cookie for that discovery
 * HazRPG waves cookie in the air trying as if pleased but realises that browser cookies aren't edible :(
 * FND converts cookie to gold star
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lp ~/.chrome/cookies
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: put edible paper in your printer
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: \o/ edible browser cookies
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: winrar!
<FND> incidentally, Chrome's handling of cookies is why I don't use it as primary browser (well, and Vimperator)
 * HazRPG places FND's gold star onto the monitor over where important mail would be
<HazRPG> FND: but... google likes cookies! So much so that they want every cookie sent to them! Greedy gits...
<shauno> in other news, it's another fantastic day out there
<FND> that's why I use Chrome only as a site-specific browser
<FND> shauno: I've noticed, and would rather go out and play than battle this crap code
<HazRPG> FND: that sounds wrong...
 * MartijnVdS uses chromium with 3rd-party cookies disabled, and ghostery
<MartijnVdS> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/mlomiejdfkolichcflejclcbmpeaniij
<Severian> I almost installed Chrome last night.  But, I found out it includes Flash.
<MartijnVdS> Severian: on Linux as well?
<Severian> yes
<MartijnVdS> Chromium doesn't :)
<HazRPG> FND: if it really bothers you, why not change /etc/hosts to just bounce back the google requests over to 127.0.0.1
<FND> HazRPG: how so? for Google Reader et al. you pretty much have to give in and use cookies - that way at least I keep 'em separate
<HazRPG> home sweet 127.0.0.1
<FND> it's not just Google, it's general paranoia
<shauno> *cough* ::1
<HazRPG> shauno: not all of us are on ipv6 dude ;)
<shauno> HazRPG: congratulations, you got a new project then :)
<HazRPG> I swear I'm going to be old before I ever finish the ones I've started >_<
<HazRPG> shauno: does tunnelling ipv4 over ipv6 not count?
<shauno> that's pretty much the plan.  you're going to grow old anyway
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Throw away projects you're never going to finish
<FND> $ cat ~/bin/gapps # exec google-chrome --user-data-dir="$HOME/.config/google-chrome/GApps" "$@"
<FND> this is what I use Chrome for
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: but I'm a horde... I horde this and I horde that... all data is welcome!
<FND> the user-data-dir thing is pretty neat, since you can run several instances in parallel
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hoarder*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Horde = WoW :P
 * HazRPG was tempted to actually download wiki the other night
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Are you expecting WW3? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it was an obvious pun ;) - I might be partially-self-diagnosed-dyslexic... but I can at least spell dyslexic without spellcheck :)
<shauno> I actually know someone who keeps wikipedia on SD cards, along with an ereader and a solar charger, locked away in a box that'd supposedly survive emp
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Paranoia \o/
<shauno> so word to the wise; if we survive ww3, head to australia if you'd like a refresher on counting binary on your fingers
<HazRPG> shauno: must be only half of wikipedia? I clicked the link and it said it was too huge for my screen to comprehend
<shauno> HazRPG: cards is plural :)
<shauno> the worst part is, I actually believe him.  he's just .. one of those.
<HazRPG> shauno: seriously, he sat and downloaded it all >_<
<shauno> HazRPG: I expect he let his computer do it.  they're handy for that kinda thing
<shauno> wikipedia do have a downloadable dump.  it's not a difficult task.  having a good reason to do so is much more awkward.
<HazRPG> shauno: well I didn't expect him to count the binary on his hand and input manually into some circuitry... however I can imagine that use to be a guys job at one point :P
<HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
<HazRPG> to be exact
<HazRPG> ~27GB uncompressed for english
<MartijnVdS> 6GB compressed
<MartijnVdS> still.. it'd fit on a 32GB SD card
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, but for it to be useful you'd want it uncompressed
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: this is true...
<shauno> I could see the value of having a copy of wp & project gutenberg in such a situation.  I'm just not the right type to plan for it myself :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: http://goo.gl/hxcA \o/
<shauno> random story.  as kids, we were always told if the siren went off, to head for the hills ( / golf course) so we'd enjoy an awesome sunset and a painless death.  I never quite knew if they were kidding or not.
<HazRPG> shauno: I have thought about it a few times myself... downloading it for when governments decide that the internet should be closed off
<shauno> well, one day the intruder alarm went off at the base.  no-one had actually educated us on the difference, so I darned near <kept family-friendly> myself
<HazRPG> lol
<shauno> HazRPG: if you're genuinely paranoid of such a situation, get a ham radio license and check out the data modes.  Instead of sitting around complaining about the govt cutting the net off, you could be part of the solution instead :)
<HazRPG> shauno: there was an episode about ham radios... and I did consider that too!
<HazRPG> episode of hak5*
<shauno> you can use x.25 (or a variant of it), giving you true packet radio over ham bands
<HazRPG> shauno: ya should catch the episode I'm referring to... some of the people in the states have set themselves up as a ham internet gateway :)
<shauno> and make yourself useful next time cumbria gets flooded :p  so much more productive than having articles about counting on your fingers on your kindle :p
<HazRPG> and the guy went to visit the hakhouse, he used his ham to log his trip on twitter
<shauno> that's not unusual
<HazRPG> no, I thought it was pretty cool
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IPv4_address_blocks    check out who 44.0.0.0/8 is assigned to :)
<HazRPG> also, during the cumbrian floods... I was stuck in Edinburgh for a week. I landed the day it happened
<shauno> and all the amsat stuff .. hams have crazy resources
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: There are worse places to be stuck
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: At least they have good whisky :)
<czajkowski> .c
<shauno> I do like edinburgh.  there's some lovely bars :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: g'morning
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think I was 17 at the time?
<HazRPG> czajkowski: g'mornin :)
<HazRPG> to land, get a bus ticket from the desk... catch the bus to the bus station... sit there for 5 hours to find a bus finally arrives to be told "sorry we're not going to carlisle" was a mega shock for me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You paniced?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<HazRPG> nah, was just shocked
<shauno> that the busses weren't going where they said they were?  you don't take busses often, do you :p
<HazRPG> first thing I did was borrowed a pen from a lass, and scribbled down some important numbers around my arm
<HazRPG> shauno: heh
<shauno> name, address, couple of stamps .. then sleep it off in a postbox :p
<HazRPG> shauno: haha
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 0118 999 881 999 119 725
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ... 3
<HazRPG> ...3
<HazRPG> argh! too late :P
<MartijnVdS> shauno: good idea though :)
<shauno> read an odd story on reddit yesterday, about various odd objects people had managed to send thru the post
<HazRPG> shauno: do tell :)
 * HazRPG pulls up a chair
<shauno> peronally, I'd have just headed for a train station.  there's two different routes into carlisle from edinburgh :)
<shauno> down to newcastle & across, or across to glasgow and down
<shauno> (I think if you do the later you have to run 3 blocks thru the rain tho, because 'across' and 'down' don't quite meet in the middle)
<HazRPG> shauno: I landed in Glasgow, I ended up in Edinburgh...
<shauno> lost?
<HazRPG> shauno: about 3 hours of phone calls later, I found out that one of my cousins moved to Edinburgh so rang him up and asked if he'd put me up :)
<HazRPG> hadn't seen the guy since I was 4 though!
<shauno> sounds like a pretty fun way to end a trip either way tho
<HazRPG> I've gotten use to it
<HazRPG> bleeps always happens when I travel - something goes wrong somewhere to make the trip more exciting
<shauno> we had some floods here a while back.  was great fun.  the bus home from dublin just went on a massive detour thru the middle of nowhere
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You aren't related to The Doctor, are you? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no... but ironically my friends do call me the time lord ;P
<HazRPG> I think it has more to do with the fact that I'm always late for stuff...
<HazRPG> or sometimes way too early
<HazRPG> I was 2 week early for my job interview once :P
<HazRPG> got the job because I seemed keen apparently
<HazRPG> shauno: o'realy?
<HazRPG> "...and if you look to your left, there's more water :)"
<bigcalm> Weeeee. The 1st service pack is waiting to be downloaded/installed on my windows7 desktop. Only 73.6mb - 892.6mb
<HazRPG> seems I'm in for the long haul again today... might as well do  the usual I'm-still-awake-but-should-really-wash-up routine
<oimon> bigcalm: lol natty ISO is less than that
<oimon> obligatory http://xkcd.com/612/
<HazRPG> bigcalm: I'd hate to boot into my win7 to see how much it needs to download now then...
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm not doing it, last time i did it hosed my box
<bigcalm> For those who want to bash me for using windows: 9 - 6 I use computers as a tool and it's a work provided tool :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: when was the last time and what version?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i use windows too, it's no problem
<gord> i don't think anyone is gonna bash you for using windows :)
<gord> not here at least
<oimon> we'll just sympathise
<shauno> HazRPG: I should have the pics still if I look hard enough.  we crossed a tiny bridge at the roscommon border, that had been breached at both ends.  so it looked like the bridge started & finished within the river
<MooDoo> bigcalm: about 3 weeks ago and i'm not sure what version
<screen-x> morning :)
<MooDoo> screen-x: morning
<HazRPG> MooDoo: it's a job-hazard we all have to live with sometimes
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, nice
<HazRPG> right, brb... time to wash face, etc
<HazRPG> hmm, might go for a walk too actually
<HazRPG> sun's out n everything
<HazRPG> n apparently few friends are at the park... so why not ay?
<HazRPG> catch ya all later :)
 * BigRedS wants to go and sit in the park
<screen-x> BigRedS: I'd second that
 * oimon seems to have developed a new cold to go with the existing one
<BigRedS> I have a lapop, and my phone claims 3G tetherability.....
<AlanBell> 2/30
<screen-x> AlanBell: life goals achieved?
<gord> hrm, need to find a firefox plugin to auto refresh a webpage so that i can get some work done
<Myrtti> there used to be one
<shauno> I use refreshevery.  works with 4 and does what it says on the can
<gord> reloadevery?
<shauno> very possibly
<gord> cool, trying that one
<shauno> yeah, that's the one.  just adds a new entry when you right-click a page
<gord> "ReloadEvery has partnered with SmartLinks to bring you more relevant links on the pages you visit. " ....
<BigRedS> I don't like the sound of that
<shauno> yeah, that's optional.  and stupid.
<oimon> ewww
 * BigRedS points out that it's built in to Opera :)
<HazRPG> gord: reloading won't make the 3DS arrive any faster!
<gord> yes. it. will.
<HazRPG> :P
<shauno> I use it at work, because we have a silly webapp that just stalls after 60 minutes of inactivity
<HazRPG> only if. this. is. sparta!
<HazRPG> right anyways, shoes and stuff on... definitely going this time o/
<shauno> it was either that, or tie a gerbil to my mouse
<willy_1977> morning
<shauno> howdy
<willy_1977> seems a little less busy on here currently I *may* even be able to keep up :D
<JamesTait> "What a beautiful day, hey hey, what a beautiful day!" Good morning everyone! :D
 * screen-x recommends "happy up here" by royksopp to accompany the beautiful day
 * oimon seems to have lost 2 staff members today to pointless strike action
<willy_1977> "My oh my what a wonderful day..." and we're all stuck in front of computers :p
<gord> i love it when apt gets to upgrading flashplayer - their little download graph is pretty
<willy_1977> hah... basic I know but I just got davmail working meaning I can ditch windows properly when working from home ... just the question of .net development now :/
<MartijnVdS> gord: wget --progress=dot
<smittix> Morning all
<willy_1977> smittix: morning.
<smittix> Anyone know of a good wordpress plugin to auto post to twitter?
<MooDoo> smittix: twitter tools
<smittix> MooDoo: Cheers :)
<willy_1977> MooDoo: fancy seeing you here :p
<smittix> I will check it out
<MooDoo> willy_1977: always here :)
<smittix> Cracking weather in notts today MooDoo
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah, lovely ride into work
<willy_1977> ride? are you the engine?
<MooDoo> willy_1977: nope motor
 * screen-x imagines MooDoo galloping to work
<MooDoo> screen-x: tall and lanky gallop ;)
<screen-x> 10:04 \o/
<willy_1977> tether up dobin just outside... I cycle to work and it's been much better lately, same on a motorbike I guess winter riding has it's drawbacks...
<BigRedS> there's a fairly serious discussion going on here about how best to build a clock in minecraft
<BigRedS> between a pair of people who've been doing it since about 6pm yesterday
<screen-x> BigRedS: digital display made from a grid of torches?
<smittix> MooDoo: Thank's for that, all working fine :)
<MooDoo> smittix: no worries, i've used it before :)
<BigRedS> screen-x: nah, some blocks that can be switched between white and black, for an lcd-alike display
<BigRedS> but they're using signposts to transmit the time to this clock from a computer hidden in a valley
<BigRedS> and that's the bit they're arguing about
<screen-x> BigRedS: oooh, didn't know colour changing blocks were available
<smittix> Now to add Flickr Box for my photography
<MooDoo> smittix: :)
<willy_1977> sorry - excuse my ignorance but... "minecraft"?
<bigcalm> minecraft.net
<willy_1977> bigcalm: ah ok, thanks.
<screen-x> willy_1977: noooo don't do it!
<willy_1977> ?
<screen-x> willy_1977: mindcrack is known to be highly addictive
<bigcalm> It's a sandbox type game where you are free to spend your time away from work ;)
<willy_1977> lol
<bigcalm> screen-x: I go through phases, haven't played it for a while
<MooDoo> willy_1977: #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<MooDoo> willy_1977: it's addictive :D
<willy_1977> OOoooo I've just seen monodevelop... anyone used it?
 * willy_1977 is a linux noob if not apparent
<MooDoo> wintellect: shuuuuuuuuuuush don't say mono ;)
<bigcalm> willy_1977: directhex might have ;)
<smittix> What is mono? heh
<willy_1977> MooDoo: I may have mentioned it once but I think I got away with it...
<directhex> wasn't me, didn';t break it, can't prove it
<screen-x> directhex: I think it was you... http://traffic.libsyn.com/frostbitemedia/TWID_022.ogg
<directhex> :o i'm being impersonated on the internet!
<s-fox> Hello.
<willy_1977> s-fox: hello
<MooDoo> s-fox: good morning
<smittix> bah, Payroll patch day :(
<s-fox> Hello willy_1977 & MooDoo =)  How are you?
<willy_1977> smittix: yuk...
<willy_1977> s-fox: yeah good thanks, you?
<s-fox> I am okay thank you.
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm fine and dandy, just looking for a camera lens to hire
<willy_1977> MooDoo: cool... got some more trips planned?
<MooDoo> willy_1977: it's for a wedding this time......and looking to do some toddler group photos
<willy_1977> MooDoo: cool
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I like photography also. What camera do you have?
<MooDoo> willy_1977: yeah, i'm getting some studio kit that i can use
<willy_1977> MooDoo: building it up slowly?
<MooDoo> s-fox: just a nikon d60 at the moment, but i'm looking at the d300s
<MooDoo> willy_1977: yeah
<MooDoo> s-fox: what you using?
 * directhex has a new camera
<MooDoo> directhex: which one?
<directhex> fuji finepix w3
<MooDoo> lovely :)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-LX3-Digital-Stabilized-Black/dp/tech-data/B001CCLBSA/ref=de_a_smtd
<MooDoo> s-fox: nice, do you take a lot?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  When I go out yes.
<MooDoo> http://www.flickr.com/photos/prjmellors/ - my flickr
<s-fox> I bought it while I was travelling in USA last year
<directhex> MooDoo, i want some memorable pics from our summer holiday in may. given the constraints on 3d cameras, florida should be absolutely fine for it, and make for some awesome pics
<MooDoo> directhex: yes :) awesome
<directhex> MooDoo, i wasn't really too sold on the idea until i tried the 3d photo app on playstation network, which has a bunch of demo pics
<directhex> MooDoo, and considering they're taken with sony's "just press the button twice and move your hand a few inches between snaps, it's true 3d honest" technology, i'm pretty hopeful for what a real camera will do
<MooDoo> directhex: looks ace
<directhex> Â£4 a photo to get 3d prints though >_<
<gord> you can get 3d prints?
<MooDoo> yeah can be expensive
<screen-x> 3d prints??
<s-fox> Nice pics MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm learinign
<MooDoo> learning
<s-fox> I do not have a flickr
<s-fox> :'(
<directhex> works the same way as glasses-free 3d screens. i.e. very high resolution, both pics interlaced, with a parallax barrier to split the image between your eyes
<screen-x> s-fox: thats the advantage of dvi
<MooDoo> s-fox: any particular reason? or just not something you're interested in?#
<directhex> same as 3ds
<screen-x> directhex: like an old school postcard, except you don't have to move you head from side to side?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  No reason. I have an account on gnome-look where I have a couple of my shots sitting as wallpapers
<directhex> screen-x, kinda, yeah. the barrier is much much finer, so each eye sees a different thing
<directhex> screen-x, so with 3d prints, they need to put a barrier on every single printout. the alternative is a ~Â£400 digital 3d photo frame. or just using a 3d tv/monitor
<s-fox> http://gnome-look.org is down
<screen-x> directhex: I'd be interested to see how well that works..
<gord> very well, you just have to be in the right position
<directhex> screen-x, the 3ds will bring 3d cameras and screens to millions
<gord> you couldn't mount a 3d print on a wall and have everyone in a room see it in 3d really
<directhex> gord, yeah, that's the downside to parallax barrier, and why it's a no-go for tvs. need to be completely straight in front of it
<screen-x> Like good audio.. you have to sit in the right place
<dogmatic69> anyone have a simple howto on formating a flash drive thing
<Severian> not much howto needed.  Just do the natural thing.
<dogmatic69> never done it before, gparted just throwing errors all over
<screen-x> dogmatic69: system > administration > disk utility
<MartijnVdS> System -> Administration -> Disk Utility
<Severian> Insert the drive.  Run dmesg to see what drive letter it mounted as.  Fdisk the device.  make the filesystem.  You are done.
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: ^5
<MartijnVdS> Severian: no no no :)
<Severian> yes yes yes
<Severian> I have done it a bunch of times and never had a problem.
<screen-x> Severian: it works, but there is a preference in here for telling people the graphical way of doing things if possible.
<Severian> I like ext2 on flash drives.
<Severian> OK.  I can accept following local standards.
<dogmatic69> i clicked eject, then system -> admin -> disk utility, select the drive, format :: Error creating partition table: helper exited with exit code 1: cannot open /dev/sdb: No medium found
<Severian> You want to unmount, not eject.
<Severian> I have no idea if Drive utility expects it mounted or not.
<MartijnVdS> you can unmount from the disk utility
<screen-x> dogmatic69: you can unmount from within disk utility
<MartijnVdS> it'll do whatever it wants for you
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: haha, I'll leave you to it
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: nah, you can help :)
<dogmatic69> ok, so i created a new partition. ext2... then what?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: done?
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> no format?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dogmatic69> does not seem to show up now
<screen-x> dogmatic69: click "mount volume" in disk utility
<dogmatic69> ah... took a while
 * screen-x goes to do some staff training :/
<dogmatic69> 'mount' just showed up now
<dogmatic69> thanks all
<willy_1977> screen-x: good luck... :/
<Severian> uninstalling unity also uninstalled ubuntu-desktop.  This may not work so well.
 * willy_1977 just finished listening to the interview... 
 * oimon is fighting with RHEL 6 ..and losing :(
<directhex> good luck
<smittix> Thank god for that, bloody payroll systems do my swede in/
 * smittix gets back to his blog
<Severian> My swede has not been paid.
<smittix> heh
<MooDoo> don't you plant swedes? lol
<oimon> bah..it's really annoying when people get their email address wrong and subscribe you to unsubscribable email lists
<MooDoo> 1300quid for a camera lens....sheeesh
<MartijnVdS> I want a new TV.. but I don't want a new TV
<MartijnVdS> (the new TV would have support for my sat setup, so I can get rid of one of my "black boxes")
<MartijnVdS> (but my current TV is only 2 years old)
<MartijnVdS> 3
<smittix> Does the flickr box show up on my blog? http://www.aptgetmoo.co.uk ?
<MooDoo> smittix: yes i can see the photography section
<smittix> Well that's semi good
<smittix> I cant see it heh
<directhex> yes.
<smittix> Bit of Clapton to get me through the day
<diplo> smittix, what plugin is that for flickr ?
<diplo> Wanted something similair myself
<Myrtti> oof
<directhex> ofo
<Myrtti> is it really supposed to ... show the api key like that?
<Myrtti> not that I know if that is safe or not, it just seems somehow wrong
<Myrtti> ps. non-default favicon would be nice
<smittix> Myrtti: Yeah, for some reason its not picking my FavIcon up. I will fix that
<smittix> diplo: Twitter Tools!
<smittix> Myrtti: New FavIcon should be showing
<brobostigon> suggestions, something useful and constructive to do?
<kirrus> brobostigon: run around outside in the sunshine?
<BigRedS> Is there an easy way to get out of firefox from which IP address it's retrieving a website?
<brobostigon> kirrus: hmm, running is maybe not a good idea, idont think my osteoporosis is going to like it much.
<BigRedS> I can't work out what causes it to reparse /etc/hosts, but I know it does do it periodically
<kirrus> brobostigon: :( Saunter then?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i wouldsuggest a ping from terminal, myself.
<brobostigon> kirrus: saunter?
<screen-x> brobostigon: gentle walk
<brobostigon> screen-x: ah, yes maybe that is better, :)
<BigRedS> brobostigon: nah, I wanna know what firefox specifically is doing - it keeps not having yet reread /etc/hosts for some reason...
<screen-x> BigRedS: something like firebug that shows you the headers?
<brobostigon> good thinking screen-x.
<BigRedS> I've got the HTTP headers, but they're above IP/dns, so they're all using names
<oimon> BigRedS: if this is a long term thing, then install a squid proxy and check the proxy logs
<BigRedS> I'm currently using X-powered-by and knowing which version of PHP is on each server, but it strikes me there's probably a more sensible way of doing it
<BigRedS> hah. google-fu works.
<BigRedS> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/showip/
<screen-x> sorted :)
<caulkz> morning from a maverick user :)) x
<oimon> guys, what;s the best password store on ubuntu? lastpass? keepassX? some other?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: there isn't a "Best" one as such
<MartijnVdS> oimon: only the one you prefer :)
<oimon> features/drawbacks?
<caulkz> hibernation/standby dont work on ubuntu, any sites that might hold info on this subject?
<screen-x> oimon: I need one of those as well... I currently use a GPGd text file, which isn't the most convenient.
<caulkz> apart from that, all is good with ubuntu :)
<oimon> screen-x: i currently use firefox password manager - not ideal
<oimon> i note keepassx is QT app
<brobostigon> caulkz: it depends alot on the hw inquestion and its drivers, hiberntion/standby works absolutly as intended here on my eeepc for example.
<caulkz> ok
<smittix> oimon: I use Lastpass and keepass
<oimon> smittix: anything you can tell me about them? i haven't really had time to look into it
<oimon> i notice that firefox sync also syncs passwords...scary
<screen-x> oimon: as does chrome now, I wouldn't trust it though.
<smittix> oimon: https://lastpass.com/whylastpass_reviews.php
<oimon> screen-x: no , i'd rather store my passwords on an encrypted usb stick i can lose :P
<screen-x> oimon: ooh, I've done that as well, dropped it in a forest, and someone returned it to my boss *blush*
<oimon> lol
<screen-x> thankfully the passwords were GPGd and it was an ironkey..
<oimon> smittix: thanks. not sure i need the browser integration
<smittix> oimon: Then check out keepass
<oimon> :)
<directhex> but keepass is mono. o noez!
<oimon> directhex: it's QT i think
<directhex> keepassx is
<oimon> directhex: somebody got excited on omgubuntu because they were recommending mono(chrome) icons. don't use mono they cried. biggest WHOOOSH ever.
<oimon> if ever there's a case of some kid robotically repeating something he didn't understand, that was it
<directhex> oimon, i love hearding stories of people who break their system by uninstalling ubuntu-mono, the package with those icons in
<oimon> hehe
<ali1234> the best password store on ubuntu is seahorse
<ali1234> it's the best cos it's installed by default
<oimon> anyone used revelation?
<smittix> oimon: The Win32 app?
<oimon> it's a gnome app smittix
<smittix> ahh I thought you meant the password revelation app heh
<oimon> ah... "NOTE: Revelation development stopped in 2007 - if anyone is willing to take over the project, contact me "
<smittix> oimon: link?
<ali1234> why you can't use seahorse for this?
<oimon> http://oss.codepoet.no/revelation/wiki/Home smittix
<smittix> ta
<smittix> Alot of bugs to squash there
<oimon> ali1234: i want to store the db on an encrypted  usb stick
<Severian> Well, if you get rid of Unity, you should also run   "metacity --replace"  every time you boot.  Now, vnc works to the Natty box just fine.
<Severian> Now, to see if I can get a taskbar again.
<s-fox> gnome-look is still down :'(
<eax> Hi, I'm having trouble installing mysql-query-browser through the repo. This is the error I get: The following packages have unmet dependencies: mysql-query-browser : Depends: libgtkhtml3.14-19 (< 1:3.31) but 1:3.32.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed: Broken packages
<eax> What can I do?
<smittix> oimon: You can do that with Keepass/keepassX
<oimon> smittix: yep, i've just installed it and as now populating it :)
<BigRedS> Heh. Blackmarket ip4 addresses: http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2011/3/23/4778509.html
<oimon> i have a spare public class C i'm not using
<eax> BigRedS: Well, I guess they're selling everything now :P
<Severian> eax.  See if you can find libgtkhtml3.14-19.  Install it yourseld and then install mysql-query-browser.
<oimon> "The buyer of the addresses was Microsoft"
<eax> Severian: I tried that, it's already installed :S
<eax> oimon: Seriously?
<BigRedS> oimon: presumably as an investment
<BigRedS> I can't think MS need that many more ip4 addresses, but they're only going to go up in value until people get round to ip6
<ali1234> was that story about the $75 trillion lawsuit the other day actually real or did i dream it?
<eax> It was real
<oimon> some companies have huge amounts of IP addresses. i bet sun had a lot
<BigRedS> yeah, all the old ones got /8s
<eax> Severian: It is installed and does not seem to be broken
<oimon> JANET frown up NAT
<oimon> up/upon
<oimon> hmmm lunch
<Severian> I'd check again.  It probably is the wrong version.  If you decide it really is all there, you can force the install of the package you want.  Download the .deb, and look at the options for dpkg.
<eax> Severian: Hmm, okay, thanks :)
<BigRedS> oimon: most people do, but most people don't have kit that does ip6 very well
<Severian> That is a strange number of ip addresses to come up.  It is close to a /12 range, but not quite there.
<eax> Severian: Where oh where can I actually get the .deb?
<dogmatic69> how can i do tar and just have the folders from the path i specify?
<Severian> I would get it from wherever synaptic would install from
<eax> Okay, thanks
<dogmatic69> tar -cf store.tar /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store is what im doing but the ziped file has /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store in it, instead of just the files in that path
<dutchie> cd /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store && tar -cf store.tar ./
<dutchie> or probably cd /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app && tar -cf store.tar store/
<gord> someone needs to make an android live wallpaper -> Ubuntu live wallpaper converter, some of them are damn pretty
<dogmatic69> dutchie: ok, so go to the dir, and tar it to ~/home/backups/something.tar
<dogmatic69> makes sense, sort of :D
<dogmatic69> thanks
<Severian> eax, so In my case I would start at http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz    and end up looking in http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/mysql-query-browser/
<eax> Severian: Thanks :)
<Severian> That may not be right for you.  It depends on your ubuntu version.
<eax> I'm using Natty :)
<Severian> eax, so download the packages file for Natty, unzip it and see if that is the same end file for you. My guess is yes, but I would not install without checking.
<eax> I found the correct one :)
<Severian> Have a good day.  I am off for some sleep.
<eax> Thanks, sleep tight :)
<SuperMatt> anyone running natty on two monitors?
<eax> SuperMatt: I used to, actually on 3, but two of them wrecked themselves within one month >>
<SuperMatt> heh
<SuperMatt> did you have a panel on both screens?
<eax> Yup
<gord> SuperMatt, your supposed to have a panel on both screens
<SuperMatt> curses
<SuperMatt> I was hoping maybe I could get rid of the panel on the second screen
<SuperMatt> it's not the end of the world, mind
<dogmatic69> i just downloaded ubuntu server, the install is asking install server / enterprise cloud. is there a big difference?
<dogmatic69> they both free / open source?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> but the enterprise cloud thing is something different
<dogmatic69> i wanted the same type of thing that is on amazon really
<dogmatic69> root + ubuntu user and sudo does not require pw
<MartijnVdS> why would you want that?
<dogmatic69> because im running it on vm to play with
<dogmatic69> setting it up for the ubuntu noobs to learn in the office
<czajkowski> c
<dogmatic69> :/ downloaded the x64 version... not working on virtualbox / i3
<MartijnVdS> x64 version works fine on my i3
<MartijnVdS> don't use virtualbox, use kvm
<MartijnVdS> + virt-manager
<screen-x> \o/ external meeting just finished == free food
 * smittix loves free food at meetings
<directhex> that's sadly something i don't see anymore with new job
<directhex> overall fewer perks too... but i needed a change
<ging> is there as simple method of changing a server install into a desktop install?
<gord> ging, install ubuntu-desktop
<MartijnVdS> ging: yes, install the "ubuntu-desktop" package
<ging> meh
<ging> tha's too easy
<ging> (thanks)
<gord> oh there are harder ways
<gord> for example, you could get an electron microscope and an extremely find laser to craft the desktop install on to a server install
<screen-x> directhex: interesting job > free food
<directhex> gord, manly men use chaos butterflies for that
<ging> gord: i'll keep that as a backup plan
 * smittix Is sitting in his garden
<dogmatic69> dutchie: thanks for the tar help. got it without the full path, but now its just got a dot folder /./<files>
<dutchie> how did you make it in the end?
<dogmatic69> like you said, cd /some/path, tar -cf file.tar *.* (tried a few things)
<dutchie> i would not recommend that
<dogmatic69> oh
<dutchie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarbomb#Tarbomb for a start
<ali1234> *.*? really?
<screen-x> ali1234: gotta match all those 8.3 filenames
<kaushal_> hi
<kaushal_> how do i install Firefox 4 in 10.10 ?
<dogmatic69> add the ppa
<MooDoo> kaushal_: add the ppa and apt-get it
<MooDoo> :)
<kaushal_> dogmatic69: is it safe to use it ?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: too quick
<MooDoo> :)
<screen-x> !ff4
 * dogmatic69 answered a question \o/
<MartijnVdS> kaushal_: what happened when you tried?
<smittix> kaushal_: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable
<screen-x> :(
<smittix> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
<kaushal_> I havenot tried
<dogmatic69> kaushal_: yes
<MartijnVdS> hmm fresh tea
<kaushal_> dogmatic69: also what are the pros and cons of using ppa from security point of view ?
<smittix> Try and stick to official trusted PPA's
<dogmatic69> kaushal_: one like that is ~= as good as apt-get normal stuff
<smittix> MartijnVdS: Get me one
<MartijnVdS> smittix: brew your own :)
<kaushal_> smittix: can you please paste me the official trusted PPA's ?
<dogmatic69> using ppa's on random unknown software could have root kits etc... fx4 i doubt
<smittix> Worth a try
<smittix> kaushal_: I just did, It was mozilla's ppa
<dogmatic69> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/firefox-4-ppa-for-ubuntu-10-04-and-10-10-users/
<kaushal_> smittix: yeah
<dogmatic69> that is as 'official' as it gets
<kaushal_> but any wiki ?
<kaushal_> which says about trusted PPA's ?
<dogmatic69> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ubuntu+ppa
<kaushal_> I mean list of PPA's
<dogmatic69> info -> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<kaushal_> dogmatic69: ok
<dogmatic69> just because it is on launchpad does not make it safe btw
<dogmatic69> but 99% of the time it will be ok
<MartijnVdS> Because it's on launchpad, it's easy to remove (by the launchpad admins) once it's discovered to be "bad"
<ging> ah i was so close to having a working linux desktop again
<ging> i even had gdm working
<ging> then i installed ubuntu-desktop and it won't boot
<Myrtti> wont boot or wont login?
<ging> won't boot
<ging> i dont even see grub
<ging> do you normally see the grub menu on 10.04 ?
<Myrtti> no
<Myrtti> you have to press shift at boot to get it
<ging> won't even go into recovery mode
<Myrtti> in the menu?
<ging> yeah but it won't boot
<Myrtti> so now you got to the menu, that's good
<ging> gord: where is that laser ?
<gord> ging, go through the grub recovery thingy?
<ging> gord: it wont even boot to recovery mode
<ging> ubuntu hates me
<oimon> what's the error?
<ging> oimon: dont know tried 4 times to catch it but the screen clears too quickly to read it
<oimon> then what? blank screen?
<ging> yeah
<oimon> you could also try pressing ctrl-alt f1 , f2 , f3, etc
<oimon> to see if any info
<oimon> also, edit your grub line to remove "quiet splash"
<gregoryfenton> Have you tried pressing the up arrow while booting to show the output window?
<dogmatic69> ok, so here is my bash script so far... still cant get rid of the /./ folder in the tar :/
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/327088225
<ging> it's something to do with ureadahead
<ging> there are bug reports
<ging> but not many solutions
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: tarring tarballs seems a bit excessive in terms of disk usage
<BigRedS> just the amount needed to create the backup
<dogmatic69> just a tutorial i found and modded
<BigRedS> ahh
<dogmatic69> well i just tar the files together to make it easy to store on amazon
<dogmatic69> one file vs 3
<BigRedS> Also, 777ing files is generally bad. Moreso backups
<dogmatic69> ye, gonna take that out
<BigRedS> Yeah, but rather than one tar of three tars each of one directory, I'd just have one tarball of three dirs
<dogmatic69> it will use aws thing, move it to s3 and then rm localy
<BigRedS> if those dirs add up to 2GB, you need 2GB to create the three tarballs, then another 2GB to create the final one. If you just add them all to the same tarball, you only need the 2GB to create it
<dogmatic69> im just trying to make it easy to also revert to a backup
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> its quite small for now
<dogmatic69> think ill look at a proper backup solution at some point... just quick and dirty for now
<dogmatic69> well dirty, its not been so quick :D
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: you know how i could then, from /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app tar just the two folders?
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. I'm just looking for things to do that aren't chrooting ssh, and criticising someone elses bash script seemed like a good place to start :)
<BigRedS> what I'd do is create a tar archive of one of the directories, then add the other two to it
<BigRedS> I can't remember the switch, I think it's just add=FILENAME
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> hehe, its my first #!/bin/sh
<dogmatic69> knock it all you like :)
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: haha, awesome. I don't have any other suggestions really, though. Except to not do it in bash ;)
<hamitron> don't bash bash :/
<BigRedS> I have a general distaste for bash scripting, but admittedly that is the sort of job that should really be done in it
<BigRedS> though it's worth being aware of the differences between bash and sh - if you do #!/bin/sh there are instances where any bashisms you use will fail, since /bin/sh isn't quite always just a link to bash
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> i noticed last night trying to do shell_exec() php stuff building a git web app
<dogmatic69> shell_exec('git shortlog') != git shortlog in bash/shell/terminal whatever you call it
<MartijnVdS> probably because it doesn't get a terminal
<MartijnVdS> and behaves differently if STDIN != terminal
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> shell_exec('git shortlog HEAD') == git shortlog in terminal
<screen-x> dogmatic69: php git bindings, not used them though, so don't know how good they are https://github.com/libgit2/php-git
<dogmatic69> screen-x: nice
<dogmatic69> will check that out
<screen-x> dogmatic69: looks alphaish, but could be better than calling git binaries.
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> code comments, non existent... but im sure its better than exec() + preg_match()
<screen-x> dogmatic69: there may also be better competing projects..
<dogmatic69> doubt it
<dogmatic69> there is no decent os 'github' application around
<dogmatic69> gitosis looks good (ror) but omg, pain to install
<BigRedS> My brother found one that looked reasonable not that long ago
<BigRedS> well, read-only webfrontend to git
<dogmatic69> ye, i was looking for a read only web frontend
<dogmatic69> not interested in committing from the web
<dogmatic69> viewgit is what im using atm
<dogmatic69> its ok, very basic
<screen-x> dogmatic69: have you looked at gitorious, I think thats open source
<screen-x> in fact the source is available in gitorious.. http://gitorious.org/gitorious/mainline/trees/master its rails though.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I keep thinking of Duran Duran.. "Git.. Git.. Gitorious"
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I'm afraid thats lost on me
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGDmBLAPikU
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: hmm, ist that the original? if so I've heard a cover before..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notorious_(song)
<MartijnVdS> "Notorious" is the 14th single by Duran Duran. It was released internationally by EMI on 20 October 1986
<oimon> any wordpress users find that when typing wysiwyg, it often duplicates whole chunks of text ?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: sampled in "Notorious B.I.G." which Is prob why I recognise.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: 80s++ :)
<hamitron> geez
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: hm?
<hamitron> a cheap 350W psu I had laid around makes a lot of noise
<hamitron> sounds like a jet aircraft
<hamitron> :s
<screen-x> hamitron: did you nick it out of a powemac g4?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: play some loud music
<hamitron> it is going to have to go
<hamitron> tbh, the air coming out is pretty hot
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> motherboard states 350W psu min, but it has a pentiumd cpu
<hamitron> so mayb expecting too much of the poor thing
 * smittix really needs to stop playing hedgewars
<willy_1977> hamitron: it must be the season for it my psu went the other week. :( I'd had a clear out though of old kit... doh!
<hamitron> a few of us are having psu issues it seems :)
<willy_1977> hamitron: yep, I took it to the local parts supplier and there was much sucking of air through teeth and shaking of head... and much "300w it's tiny... "
<willy_1977> to which I replied I'm not surprised it's 6/7 years sold :p
<directhex> (using a low-wattage PSU isn't being environmentally conscious)
<oimon> seen this? http://investors.redhat.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=559647
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ah, good newses?
<willy_1977> directhex: absolutely agree but it's one of those things that is the last to get changed (i.e. when it breaks) or the new kit you want in the case needs more power...
<oimon> Â CEO Jim Whitehurst said that the company on its way to become "the first pure-play open source company to achieve a billion dollars in revenues next fiscal year
 * willy_1977 doesn't think of that as a valid excuse though...
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: indefero, apparently. But it's not quite a github clone.
<willy_1977> oimon: interesting news.
<oimon> hmm, miguel de icaza is posting ipad blogposts onto gnome planet
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: ah, that is more like a pm tool with git support
<directhex> oimon, planet gnome is not about gnome.
<czajkowski> oimon: a planet should have lots of diversity on it, otherwise it gets boring to read.
<czajkowski> it's for a community so by real people
<oimon> directhex: it seems strange to me that so many prominent OSS guys bang on about their apple products
<czajkowski> it is nice hardware and has damn good battery life on their products
<czajkowski> :s
<directhex> Planet GNOME is a window into the world, work and lives of GNOME hackers and contributors.
<MooDoo> oh no not this old chestnut again
<MooDoo> :D
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: ah. I've never actually seen it
<BigRedS> I've just spoken about it to him, and he's stopped using it, too
<dogmatic69> ye, its got a bug tracker, code review etc etc
<MooDoo> generally unless made specific can be about anything :)
<MooDoo> planet sites i'm referring too :)
<BigRedS> oimon: mostly, OSS guys are the sorts of people who put a bunch of thought into computery products, and they're also prone to argument. The two, when mixed, lead to vociferous Macbook vs Thinkpad discussions
<directhex> bigcalm, dell latitude!
 * bigcalm pokes directhex
<brobostigon> any ideas, i am  trying to get twirssi working, i installed Net::Twitter, but am still getting errors when tring to load twirssi,
<directhex> \o/
 * bigcalm thinks that directhex needs to double check his tab completes
<brobostigon> 15:48:06 -!- Irssi: Error in script twirssi:
<brobostigon> 15:48:06 Attempt to reload Net/Twitter.pm aborted.
<brobostigon> 15:48:06 Compilation failed in require at /home/ptaylor-eeepc/.irssi/scripts/twirssi.pl line 12.
<brobostigon> oh, sorry.
<directhex> bigcalm, that too
<brobostigon> any ideas?
<hamitron> directhex: in terms of power in vs power out?
<directhex> hamitron, ?
<hamitron> using a lower power psu
<hamitron> not being green, etc
<hamitron> I'll keep my 350W for a lower power system, as it is a shame to send to a landfill
<directhex> hamitron, yeah, in terms of power in vs power out.
<directhex> hamitron, there's the question of efficiency - older supplies can be really poor on that - and efficiency runs on a curve too (so you may need to buy a supply which is efficient for your power load, which may not be the one you expect)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> any idea how much energy is used to build a PSU, compared to what you'd waste using one not so good?
<directhex> no. ultimately they're just steel and a bunch of capacitors, so compare to something like an amp
<hamitron> I'm not sure about either tbh
<hamitron> I just tend to use things till they die, unless it is something I use a lot
<hamitron> like for day to day use I like my lcd
<hamitron> but crt is fine for my less used machines
<hamitron> the investment required to change them is not worth the energy saving
<bigcalm> Can I use mod_headers with mod_rewrite and thus set headers based upon the agent being used?
 * hamitron shrugs
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> hamitron: you might be able to pick up lcd monitors from freecycle
<hamitron> oimon: that is actually a damn good idea
<oimon> i've given a good few away to charities and other people. i still have a 18inch NEC LCD under my desk that was Â£800 when new :S
<hamitron> ty
<screen-x> oimon: I got rid of a couple on freecycle, one of which worked quite well..
<hamitron> do you just pay delivery or what?
<oimon> i prefer my dell 17 inch ones since the bezel/surround is too big on the nec
<screen-x> hamitron: no, you have to go and get it
<oimon> freecycle tends to be local
<hamitron> k
<oimon> or freegle is another site similar
<hamitron> never carried an LCD on a motorbike ;)
<hamitron> reckon it would be ok?
<hamitron> :D
<oimon> i carried one in a rucksack by removing the stand
<oimon> the actual lcd unit isn't bulky
<oimon> only when attached
<hamitron> tbh, it isn't really green travelling far
<screen-x> hamitron: but greener on a bike..
<hamitron> I only get 40mpg
<hamitron> haha
<oimon> wow
<hamitron> 45 if I am careful with the juice
<screen-x> hamitron: why?
<oimon> my car does better than that
<BigRedS> hamitron: how big? you can get all sorts on a motorbike
<dogmatic69> ok, working backup script to s3 http://bin.cakephp.org/view/327088225
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to enter the mysql pw for crons?
<hamitron> it is only 400cc, but 1980
<hamitron> :)
<screen-x> ahh
<BigRedS> hamitron: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_RsV1BFhY1_U/SoVI3xGfYqI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/Uj5XLWKVFCo/s800/2009-08-13%2018.55.11.jpg
<hamitron> I am considering a bike that gets about 85mpg
<screen-x> whats that BigRedS?
<BigRedS> screen-x: a pic of a bike box on a bike
<BigRedS> I think
<screen-x> specialised..
<BigRedS> picasa doesn't always do what I think it does
<hamitron> haha
<BigRedS> and I thought I copied the shorter link, but clearly not
<brobostigon> any twirssi users able to point me atwhere i am failing?
 * oimon wishes picasa was FLOSS 
<BigRedS> Oh, it's an empty box, I was packing my bike to go to france
<BigRedS> but, yeah, that's the BigRedS I got my name from
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: in the crontab. Just make it readable only to root, or whichever user is running it
<hamitron> BigRedS: what mpg you get?
<screen-x> BigRedS: ahhhhhh
<BigRedS> hamitron: on that, ~55mph, sometimes 60ish. But I don't ride that any more.
<BigRedS> my Pan gets ~50mpg, my old CX about 30
<hamitron> mine is a wetdream :)
<BigRedS> oddly, the pan is most efficient at about 70mph, which is nice
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: like store the pw in the script?
<BigRedS> yeah
<dogmatic69> k
<popey> brobostigon: what guide are you following to install it?
<brobostigon> popey: the one on their site.
<popey> http://twirssi.com/?installing
<popey> that one?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> what goes wrong?
<BigRedS> hamitron: cb250?
<brobostigon> popey: the error above that i posted, whenn i try and load twirssi in irssi,
<popey> it needs a perl dependancy
<hamitron> BigRedS: 400 version
<hamitron> :)
<popey> Net::Twitter
<popey> brobostigon: libnet-twitter-perl
<hamitron> CB400N
<popey> install that
<brobostigon> popey: ok, one minute.
<brobostigon> popey: installed.
<popey> now try loading twirssi again
<brobostigon> just did, same error.
<popey> iiiinteresting
<brobostigon> popey: umm, any further ideas?
<brobostigon> please.
<dogmatic69> ive made a function inside a bash script, does not seem like i can use 'clear' inside the function... any reason for this?
<MartijnVdS> woo, edge snapping works again
<BigRedS> hamitron: ahhh, I'm crap at that sort of era :) I just got the CX 'cause it sounds awesome
<dogmatic69> clear works outside the function, inside not :/
<popey> brobostigon: can you pastebin what happens when you unload and reload twirssi?
<hamitron> BigRedS: mine is basically a baby CX
<dogmatic69> o.o
<screen-x> dogmatic69: ls; function c(){ clear; }; c
<dogmatic69> man, this bash stuff is wierd
<screen-x> dogmatic69: that seems to work
<hamitron> engine mounted too high and falls over in corners
<hamitron> but I love the styling
<hamitron> :)
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i had function something{ clear }
<hamitron> and sound ;)
<brobostigon> popey: yes, one minute,
<brobostigon> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584891/
<popey> brobostigon: pastebin /home/ptaylor-eeepc/.irssi/scripts/twirssi.pl
<popey> pls
<brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/584892/
<popey> brobostigon: dpkg -l libnet-twitter-perl
<BigRedS> hamitron: does it have a sideways v-twin, though? :)
<BigRedS> I can replace my spark plugs *on the move* :)
<SuperMatt> dammit, found a unity bug
<brobostigon> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584893/
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: welcome to the club
<hamitron> BigRedS: http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/bike.jpg
<hamitron> no ;/
<BigRedS> haha, yes, I know those! yours looks in considerably better condition than mine, though
<hamitron> it is my baby :)
<BigRedS> I love my CX, but it breaks down about every six miles. Only feasible to ride it in the summer :)
<hamitron> I like retro bikes
<BigRedS> I _really_ need to replace the loom
<hamitron> I wanted a CX
<hamitron> but read it needs leaded petrol?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: prod.....
<hamitron> now I want an enfield :)
 * MooDoo is looking forward to his ride home :)
<BigRedS> it's awesome. Such a great bike to ride
<czajkowski> MooDoo: better be worth it, distrubing me
<BigRedS> nah, this one wants (well, appears to be happy with) unleaded
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nope i'm here just to annoy xx
<BigRedS> it's '81, and unleaded was normal mid-seventies I thought?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: >:(
<BigRedS> Going with my Dad tomorrow to pick up his new Bonneville :)
<hamitron> BigRedS: I read the CX needed some additive to lower running temps
 * bigcalm wants chocolate now
<SuperMatt> this bug won't get fixed, dammit
<SuperMatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/741869
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 741869 in unity (Ubuntu) "Pressing the Super (windows) key while in Virtual Machine Manager no longer works" [Undecided,New]
<hamitron> but mine runs hot too tbh
<willy_1977> bigcalm: bourneville by any chance?
<BigRedS> hamitron: yeah, it does run hot, but I think that's mostly innefectual cooling...
<oimon> notes that the bike discussion started when we were discussing lcd monitors lol
<bigcalm> willy_1977: funny that
<BigRedS> the current breakage is a leaky radiatior, thinking about it
<popey> SuperMatt: what is virtual machine manager?
<popey> brobostigon: hmm
<hamitron> I just want a BIG single :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: virt-manager
<oimon> is that kvm virt-manager SuperMatt
<oimon> ugliest piece of softare i ever used
<SuperMatt> popey: it's an application to manage kvm virtual machines (and others)
<popey> ahh
<SuperMatt> oimon: yes it is
 * popey wonders if the developers would know this detail
<popey> and whether more detail on the bug report might help
<popey> who knows perl?
<popey> use Net::Twitter qw/3.11009/;
<SuperMatt> popey: it's probably something that the devs of virt-manager will have to fix, but it's only since unity has come in that there has been a problem, so unity has changed some behaviour somewhere which has broken another app
<popey> ii  libnet-twitter-per 3.14002-1
<MartijnVdS> popey: I do, what's the problem :)
 * BigRedS knows some perl
<popey> what does the qw/ mean?
<MartijnVdS> popey: "quote word"
<BigRedS> it's a quoting mechanism
<popey> so its saying "you must have Net::Twitter 3.11009 ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it makes every word (separated by whitespace) into a string and returns an array of those strings
<BigRedS> space-separated list
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes
<popey> not "or above"?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's "at least"
<popey> ok
<MartijnVdS> popey: try (for any perl module):
<MartijnVdS> perl -MNet::Twitter\ 123455
<SuperMatt> popey: I also note that, although it hasn't altered the behaviour of vinegare, it does make the search thing open in the background
<MartijnVdS> popey: it'll tell you which version Perl thinks you have
 * popey points MartijnVdS at brobostigon 
<SuperMatt> oh no wait, no it hasn't
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ^
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: o/
<SuperMatt> wait, yes it has
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: try that -- "perl -MNet::Twitter\ 980938409" (or any large number really)
<brobostigon> Net::Twitter version 980938409 required--this is only version 3.15.
<brobostigon> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: See.. you have 3.15 :)
<popey> ok
<oimon> SuperMatt: i would add a comment to tell them which package to add in order to test this. as you say, virt-manager is a redhat app..so good luck with that
<popey> so why is this happening:- http://paste.ubuntu.com/584891/
<MartijnVdS> Because irssi already has a copy of Net::Twitter loaded
<MartijnVdS> (which might be an old version)
<popey> ahhhh
<popey> how can you unload?
<MartijnVdS> not really.. you can fake it by some Perl magic
<MartijnVdS> delete $INC{"Net/Twitter.pm"};
<MartijnVdS> that or restart irssi
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm, ok.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: restarting irssi seems to have made it load.
<bigcalm> Near enought 5pm, can I take the rest of the day off?
<gord> 5pm and no "your product has shipped" from amazon, my life is over :(
<popey> 3DS?
<bigcalm> You'll that that email at 11pm
<gord> 3ds
<bigcalm> I hear that they don't work for pirates
<gord> status hasn't even changed to "shipping soon" yet
<popey> YARRRR!
<bigcalm> popey: that's them
<gord> most annoying thing is that people that pre-ordered last night are saying they got the email, have those people no soul?
<bigcalm> Not now, no
<hamitron> I'm never using the pre-order again at amazon after the hassles I had last time
<hamitron> :/
<willy_1977> from this am finally had chance to look at mono great job... hopefully I'm preaching to the converted here though... :D
<czajkowski> gord: ipad2?
<gord> czajkowski, 3ds
<Azelphur> Haha, just had someone on my TF2 server chanting about how X sucks and Y sucks until we asked him to stop or he gets a mute, then he started ranting about how we don't allow constructive critism :D
<Azelphur> clearly someones confused on the constructive part of criticism :D
<willy_1977> Azelphur: did you manage to constructively criticise his/her "constructive criticisim"?
<Azelphur> I think so :D
<MartijnVdS> yo, dawg?
<hamitron> nothing wrong with a bit of moaning and grumbling imho
<hamitron> ;/
<willy_1977> hamitron: of course not for goodness sake whatever next... no moaning indeed.
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, I'm all up for grumbling but when it's just "admins suck" "maps suck" "server sucks" "tf2 sucks" over the space of 30 minutes it gets old :D
<hamitron> guess so :)
<willy_1977> admins suck
<MartijnVdS> fixing > whining
<Azelphur> hamitron: was even more funny when he spent the next 5 minutes solid trying to reconnect to said sucky server :)
<hamitron> hehe
<willy_1977> not really of curse :)
<willy_1977> *course
<Azelphur> hehe
<willy_1977> ha did the fellow get back in?
<hamitron> I probably moan weekly about certain things, but that is ok I suppose
 * willy_1977 has to polish his boots...
<hamitron> talking of gaming.... not seen many on minecraft lately
<hamitron> on popey's server
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm on my mc server :D
<hamitron> what sort of server?
<directhex> does it have portals?
<Azelphur> yes it has portals, mobs enabled
<hamitron> eiiwwwww to portals :/
<willy_1977> or does it have a 128k expansion pack?
<willy_1977> :p
<Azelphur> directhex: you mean portals like stargate mod rather than nether right?
<hamitron> constructive or destructive?
<Azelphur> constructive :)
<Azelphur> and optional PvP
<popey> hamitron: i was on last night for a bit
<popey> as was dsas :)
<hamitron> popey: I will be back on, just been busy
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> so don't delete my work!
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> Azelphur, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBIqoBP_y4
<Azelphur> directhex: oh, haha :D
<popey> "work" you say hamitron
<Azelphur> directhex: my server has stargates like in the TV show, similar in construction to nether portals
<gord> feels like the rate of new stuff in minecraft has slowed down substantially - shame really
<popey> yeah
<popey> 1.4 needs to hurry up
<Azelphur> there was a group that apparently got angry about lack of updates and fired the DDoS cannon the other day
<hamitron> popey: hell yes! it is like a piece of art damn it
<gord> how many releases has their been since january?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: how meture
<hamitron> not work work though :)
<gord> back when i used to play there was a release every friday
<Azelphur> bigcalm: indeed
<directhex> releases are bad
<directhex> they mean needing to patch in a new lwjgl every time
<gord> do they know that their version sucks?
<gord> i don't think they test much/ever on linux
<gord> hasn't really been much interesting added since the halloween update :( note blocks were cool but i don't have the patience to do anything interesting with them
<dutchie> beds are handy
<dutchie> wolves could be nice
<hamitron> weather would be nice
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> yay beds
<directhex> i await ak-47s
<hamitron> hehe
<gord> we used to have weather, at least, it would snow
<hamitron> why no snow now?
<gord> biomes broke it
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> could have sledges and stuff
<hamitron> roads and cars
<popey> i like the new sleep-sets-your-spawn thing
<hamitron> planes
<popey> haha
<popey> map would get huge
<gord> new enemies would be nice, passive stuff like squids i'm not interested in, right now there are far too many creepers - i stopped being interested in building stuff because it always gets blown up
<hamitron> A-bombs
<popey> needs bots to do your work for you
<hamitron> haha, bots :D
<popey> workers, you command, then go offline, come back to diamonds :)
<hamitron> bigger worlds
<popey> maybe we should hire some amazon mechanical turks to do our mining!
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> how close to the limit is your server popey?
<popey> what limit?
<hamitron> it must have a limit?
 * popey shrugs
<dutchie> ttp://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=216834
<dutchie> oops
<dutchie> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=216834
<gord> hamitron, like map size?
<gord> iirc the theoretical limit is something like 8 times the area of earth
<hamitron> gord: so we better not explore too far ;)
<popey> haha, that grey goo is mental
<popey> Usage of /:   91.3% of 105.52GB
<popey> Memory usage: 60%
<popey> Swap usage:   14%
<hamitron> popey: not all minecraft? ;/
<hamitron> I hope
<popey> yes
<hamitron> omfg
<popey> mostly backups
<hamitron> ah :)
<popey> alan@hatar:~$ du -hs /home/minecraft/backups/
<popey> 72G     /home/minecraft/backups/
<hamitron> how often you backup?
<popey> hourly
<Azelphur> popey: doesn't rsnapshot cover that?
<popey> i locally backup on the machine hourly
<popey> then rsnapshot copies it off later
<hamitron> wouldn't daily be ok? ;/
 * popey shrugs
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> doesn't matter, i can bin all of feb now knowing its backed up
<Azelphur> popey: have you heard of the logblock plugin btw?
<popey> no, sounds fun
<popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 minecraft minecraft   53 2011-03-24 16:45 current.tgz -> /home/minecraft/backups/2011/03/24/world_16.45.11.tgz
<Azelphur> it is, it logs every single block placement/remove for players and allows for reverts
<popey> cunning
<Azelphur> so if fred comes and sets fire to your house, you can ban fred, then /lb rollback player fred
<Azelphur> and bam your house is back
<popey> hehe
<hamitron> I don't like that
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> select * from blocks where user = 'hamitron'
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<popey> drop table blocks
<popey> :)
<hamitron> :(
<gord> ... amazon sent me an email saying i get free shipping now - which is all fine and dandy apart from i use amazon prime so that doesn't mean a thing >:(
<popey> 47G     /home/minecraft/backups/
<popey> there we go
<popey> bye bye february
<hamitron> half the fun about playing with fire, is knowing it can get out of hand....
<popey> yeah, being able to undo is no fun
<popey> mind you, your world being destroyed by grey goo doesn't look like fun either :)
<hamitron> I can't load that
<hamitron> just never loads
<hamitron> :/
<gord> popey, do you keep images for each map backup?
<popey> images?
<popey> oh, pictures?
<gord> yeah
<popey> no
<hamitron> :/
<popey> but I could generate them :)
<gord> oh shame, would of been nice to do a timelapse
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> loop through backups, unpack, map, delete
<popey> 20 goto 10
<hamitron> bbl, food is ready :D
<Azelphur> gord: my maps get generated live http://game.azelphur.com:8123/ :D
<gord> the new natty wallpapers are very pretty
<bigcalm> A new defualt wallpaper is all that I look for in an OS update
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> all the purple in 10.04 made me sick
<bigcalm> *aubergine
<hamitron> ubuntu has a kinda sissy image, then i get a wallpaper like that ;)
<Myrtti> I never see the defaults
<hamitron> never install X?
<hamitron> or the full blown thing
<Myrtti> Rsync backups in tty1 before first login
<hamitron> I dunno why, but I like to lose all settings and start fresh fairly regularly
<smittix> easy
<hamitron> not sure if it helps uch these days, but it makes me sort my mess out (at least a bit)
<Myrtti> I do that on secondary machines
<hamitron> much*
<Myrtti> Whee blizzard
<hamitron> Whee blizzard?
<s-fox> I will be back later.
<gord> the defaults in the latest versions of ubuntu have been great, especially enjoying that there are a bunch of default wallpapers that you can set to slideshow
<hamitron> 13 mins till I have CAE Linux 2010 \o/
<hamitron> not gonna use it as a distro, but looks like it has some interesting software to sample
<hamitron> I am actually considering a dual boot config again
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> linux distro are so good to use, not sure I can not have one on my main rig
<hamitron> :)
<gord> can't remember a time where i haven't duel booted on my main machine, between ubuntu and windows
<gord> if i need to use some other linux, i'll vm
<Myrtti> hamitron: hello from Finland
<hamitron> well, I got 5 machines on this desk atm
<hamitron> 2 windows and 3 unix
<hamitron> Myrtti: hi :)
<hamitron> unix-like I mean ;/
<alexcockell> Hi all - just toask..
<alexcockell> Need to ask before I accept updates...
<hamitron> alexcockell: ask away
<alexcockell> Is there any current issue with the version of Adobe Flash that has just been released and NVidia ION chips?
<alexcockell> Just that there's some stuff on the ubuntu forums about Youtube breaking..
<alexcockell> Flash 10.2.153.1... just in Update Manager today
<alexcockell> Just that I'd rather nto have iPlayer breaking in my netbook..
<alexcockell> Am tempted to do what I usually do and wait a week..
<Myrtti> hamitron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5555958083/
<hamitron> I love snow :)
<gord> alexcockell, do you have any need to update flashplayer?
<hamitron> I'd personally just try the new flash player update, as there is a good chance it has security updates
<hamitron> can always revert if required
<gord> hamitron, eh? not easily
<hamitron> gord: why not? :|
<gord> hamitron, how would you revert?
<hamitron> uninstall
<gord> ... thats not a revert
<hamitron> it is if you install the older version again
<smittix> no ubuntu-restricted packages installed by default then
<hamitron> anyways, my point is security is important
<gord> hamitron, its installing the older version again thats the trick ;)
<hamitron> gord: nit picking? ;/
<smittix> Is there a fix to the ugly plymouth screen after installing proprietary drivers (ati) yet?
<hamitron> flash is evil anyway
<gord> hamitron, no no, its just that i don't want to get someone to the position where they install a new version and can't go back
<gord> because that would suck
<hamitron> true
<directhex> smittix: no, because you can't do plymouth with fglrx
<smittix> :/
<smittix> Id fall back to the open source driver but my battery drains within 20mins
<alexcockell> New flashpllayer is listed as an "important security update" in Update Manager...
<alexcockell> I run a Lenovo Thinkpad R61i with Intel graphics, and a  Lenovo Ideapad S12 with NVidia ION GPU..
<alexcockell> and am not sure whether it has been tested on those configs..
<alexcockell> I bought them preinstalled from linux Emporium..
<alexcockell> So - would not know how to fix it if it broke
<alexcockell> Both running 10.04 LTS
<alexcockell> ... with all updates apart from this Adobe Flash update.
<hamitron> the small flash installer update?
<alexcockell> Yes.
<alexcockell> As that goes off to Adobe's site...
<hamitron> have you got a link to the problem that worries you?
<hamitron> on the forum
<alexcockell> Umm - not really...
<alexcockell> Did a browse.. and there are a few listed in Absolute Beginners..
<alexcockell> I have the switch to turn on hardware accel applied..
<alexcockell> ... but am not sure when Adobe mention on their release notes that they have tested on NVidia 330 - is that an ION chip?
<alexcockell> Basically, I don;'t want to lose Youtube and iPlayer..
<gord> nvidia 330 is not ion
<gord> but ion is basically a 9000 series - it should work fine
<alexcockell> Why don't Adobe *say* that on a bugfix release?
<alexcockell> I know it works OK with the current version I have...
<alexcockell> Currently running 10.2.152.27
<KrimZon> what's the command to tell how many times a disk has been switched on and off, and all that stuff?
<BigRedS> KrimZon: smartctl -a <device>
<BigRedS> I think
<BigRedS> that'll give the smart data, which I think includes what you're after
<KrimZon> hmm, it doesn't give me the info for that particular disk
<HazRPG> gooooooood evening, everyone!
<hamitron> hi HazRPG
<hamitron> :)
<KrimZon> but it does for the main disk, so it'll be the other disk that sucks
<HazRPG> hamitron \o/!
<BigRedS> KrimZon: ah, if there's no smart on the disk I don't think you can get the info
<BigRedS> Gooooooooooood Morning HazRPG!
<BigRedS> </robin williams>
<hamitron> ffs
<hamitron> windows 7 machine now can't be seen on the network from the xp machine
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> BigRedS: Haha, yeah that's sort of where I was going with that :P
<BigRedS> hamitron: You're trying to do networking in Windows? ewww
<hamitron> yes :(
<hamitron> move data from old gaming machine to new gaming machine
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> hamitron: haha! I'm perpetually in good morning mode..
 * hamitron grumbles as usual
<KrimZon> BigRedS: I was trying to investigate i/o errors after trying to use it as a second backup drive
<BigRedS> hamitron: I get other people to look after my wintendo for me :)
<BigRedS> KrimZon: ah. if there's no smart I'd not want it as a backup drive...
<KrimZon> yeah
<BigRedS> though ISTR smartctl does guess stuff to make smart work, so it's possible that's just a disk that needs manual intervention to have smart working
<BigRedS> but I don't know.
<HazRPG> BigRedS, hamitron: http://goo.gl/Ugt3A
<BigRedS> haha, awesome!
<KrimZon> I'd hoped to have two drives so one was always separate from the machine
<HazRPG> BigRedS: guessing you haven't seen that before then :P
<daubers> Evening
<hamitron> KrimZon, what I do :)
<BigRedS> nope. I miss most of these things on the net somehow
 * hamitron never seen it either
<HazRPG> hamitron: :o
<HazRPG> ... see I usually find this stuff finds me :S
<hamitron> very small hand on my screen :/
<HazRPG> don't know how, I must just attract crazy!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so that's how you ended up here :)
<HazRPG> hmm, heh, its no better on mine
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ironically... yes! :P
<HazRPG> hmm, should I post up my recipe code (calibre news plugin) to the forum? It works great, the only downside is that I can't use it since my kindle doesn't support arabic :(
<HazRPG> its about 4 hours of faffing around to get 42 lines of code
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: post it already :)
<MartijnVdS> release early, release often
<BigRedS> HazRPG: code wants to be free
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> usb connector just made a crackle
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> static kinda sound
<MartijnVdS> brb
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> can't seem to find a decent hex<->character<->decimal encode/decoder
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: perl :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What kind of hex? :)
<MartijnVdS> (Unicode code points? Latin1 code points?)
<MartijnVdS> UTF-8 encoded unicode?
<HazRPG> ah, the key thing was  the bit in the middle, I want to change "Ø§ÙØ£ÙÙÙ" to unicode value so that I can place it in the recipe for uploading
<HazRPG> since the recipe doesn't work if the text isn't english
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Like &#12345; ?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Or UTF-8/16/32-encoded?
<HazRPG> yeah, something like that :)
<HazRPG> think I've found one, going to see if it compiles right
<MartijnVdS> (that's the problem with Unicode.. it only defines "Number X = this-and-that character".. you need an encoding (UTF-8, or HTML-encoding) to "write it down")
<nperry> Unity is useable....
<MartijnVdS> nperry: "Classic Gnome" is usable again
<nperry> I'm just waiting for gnome-shell to work out of box...
<nperry> Getting rid of using jhbuild...
<HazRPG> actually, seems it needs to be in \u0627 format
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Are you sure?
<HazRPG> &#1575; apparently just shows up as plain text of the same
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What kind of file?
<HazRPG> python
<MartijnVdS> ah yes :)
<MartijnVdS> In that case, either:
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> hmmmm
<HazRPG> ikr!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: So you're writing python, and you want to put Arabic in your python script? Is that it?
<HazRPG> I did find an awesome conversion site at one point, but never bookmarked it :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: well yeah, let me put it this way... when I have 'Ø§ÙØ£ÙÙÙ' as the feed title (which btw, translates to "first" or "main news") the code fails to run
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: see pm, this is going to be messy :)
<HazRPG> when it grabs the news feeds, it seems to use \u<numbers>
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no that's python's way of saying "Unicode character <numbers>"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try printing somestring.encode('utf-8')
<HazRPG> I wish I was coding in a python editor lol
<MartijnVdS> Unicode is nothing without a way to represent it. Python's way (if nothing else is specified) is \unumber
<MartijnVdS> but if you explicitly encode your string to UTF-8 (bytes), it should work
<HazRPG> I'm using gedit to write the code and "ebook-convert arabic.recipe output_dir --test -vv" to test it
<MartijnVdS> Python 3 makes this easier, by using "bytes" for the raw bytes and "characters" (strings) for the in-memory "character" sets
<HazRPG> right...
<hamitron> 4.6gb ram used! gotta get to 8.....
<hamitron> at this rate will need tutoring from Azelphu_r on how to abuse hardware
<MartijnVdS> open firefox
<hamitron> haha
<MartijnVdS> *poof* RAM used
<hamitron> 5.32 used...
<HazRPG> hamitron: what ya doing to fill it?
<HazRPG> just opening as many tabs as possible?
<hamitron> installing 5 different distro at once in vmware
<HazRPG> or are you running a pi calculator and storing into RAM :P?
<hamitron> oh no
<hamitron> I am actually doing something useful
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> I am sure I could fill the ram
<hamitron> but I want to USE the ram I suppose
<MartijnVdS> _why_?
<hamitron> because I paid money for it
<dwatkins> as a test?
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> run memtest...
<hamitron> I could of got 4gb cheaper than 8gb
<dwatkins> NOTE: do not do that on a virtual server unless you are prepared for it to totally stop responding
<hamitron> if I never use over 4gb, it would feel a waste buying 8gb
<hamitron> now I can say hand on heart, I sometimes use it
<MartijnVdS> are you running the 64-bit version?
<hamitron> only 32 bit guests
<hamitron> 64 bit host OS
<MartijnVdS> there's the problem
<MartijnVdS> 32-bit processes can't get >4G
<MartijnVdS> get some 64-bit processes running :)
<dwatkins> is the virtual host software 32-bit?
 * hamitron shrugs
<hamitron> it is vmware
<dwatkins> I installed vmware but couldn't get it to run 64-bit OSs on CentOS.
<hamitron> my host OS is windows 7
<HazRPG> VirtualBox \o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: :(
<HazRPG> hamitron: letting the side down, you should be having ubuntu on with windows VM's :P
<hamitron> F1 2010 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 are the only reason I got a new comp
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> oh, and minecraft
<shauno> morning
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<dog69-ipad> Hi all... Great news, I broke my Pc :(
<directhex> f1 2010 is half off this weekend
<hamitron> directhex: I got it on dvd
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> no thanks to amazon messing me around with my pre-order
 * hamitron curses
<directhex> hamitron: well, woo. just sayin', it's Â£15 on steam this weekend
<hamitron> worth a buy imo
<hamitron> even if loads moan about it
<dog69-ipad> Can anyone tell me where to start with a box that is only giving terminal on boot (ubuntu 10.10 desktop)
<shauno> nvidia drivers?
<dog69-ipad> Yes
 * dog69-ipad was looking at the settings last night
<dog69-ipad> Don't remember changing anything though
<hamitron> this is booting off the livecd?
<dog69-ipad> Not tried, but it will do that
<dog69-ipad> This is a running Pc since 10.10 came out
<hamitron> oh, ok
<dog69-ipad> Looked as syslog and it's complaining about missing configuration files
<dog69-ipad> Tried to do sudo gde or something but that complains too
<hamitron> startx?
<dog69-ipad> Fatal error, no screen found....
<dog69-ipad> Don't know how I'm seeing that :D
<hamitron> haha
<dog69-ipad> Also error parsing configuration
<jacobw> `sudo gdm`?
<dog69-ipad> That gives warning failed to acquire org.gnome.displaymanager
<dog69-ipad> Could not acquire name; bailing ouot
<dog69-ipad> Out
<dog69-ipad> The startx one also said unable to connect to x server
<dog69-ipad> No such file in dir
<dog69-ipad> No such process, server error
<dog69-ipad> Http://pastebin.com/Pk7TTTp2 is my configuration
<screen-x> 20:21 < dog69-ipad> Fatal error, no screen found....
<screen-x> its ok I'm here now :)
<dog69-ipad> Ah, there it is
<dog69-ipad> :/
<directhex> you don't run gdm manually, that's always wrong
<dog69-ipad> Ye
<directhex> you run "start gdm", iirc
<directhex> start spawns upstart scripts, like invoke-rc.d
<dog69-ipad> That spits a big error
<MartijnVdS> directhex: "service gdm start" afaik
<dog69-ipad> Start: rejected send message, 1 matched rules; .....
<popey> evening all
<dog69-ipad> MartijnVdS: Same thing
<screen-x> evening popey
<dog69-ipad> o/ popey
<HazRPG> hmm, I've really spent a lot of time on something I won't be able to use xD
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks for the encoding help dude :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: np.. does it work now?
<dog69-ipad> MartijnVdS: Sudo star gdm = job already running
<MartijnVdS> dog69-ipad: I have no idea
<dog69-ipad> K, thanks
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah :D, also managed to get it to grab all 15 or so RSS feeds they have too and strip out the necessaries :)
<screen-x> dog69-ipad: have you tried moving xorg.conf out the way (eg xorg.conf.bk) then restarting gdm? (service gdm restart)
<HazRPG> although seems Al-Ahram (ahram.org.eg) site apparently ships pdf versions of their newspaper - I almost got overexcited when I read that, but it's a pdf inside of a flash file...
<screen-x> dog69-ipad: won't get twinview, but then you can run the nvidia settings thing to configure that.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install dsniff, it contains urlsnarf
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: run urlsnarf, open flash file
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should show you the "hidden" URL of the pdf file
<screen-x> haz!info dsniff
<screen-x> fail
<screen-x> !info dsniff
<lubotu3> dsniff (source: dsniff): Various tools to sniff network traffic for cleartext insecurities. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.4b1+debian-18 (maverick), package size 114 kB, installed size 436 kB
<screen-x> haven't seen that before... some new man pages to read.
<MartijnVdS> unless it's really a pdf _inside_ the swf, then you have to download the swf and extract it somehow (there are tools)
 * dog69-ipad <3 screen-x
<nperry> Hmmmm Â£117mill rollover tomorrow on euro millions
<dog69-ipad> I have icons..  Badly streched and only half the screen... But it's icons none the less
 * nperry crosses fingers
 * hamitron hits something
<nperry> I might be able to run my car with that ammount of money way petrol is going
<dog69-ipad> screen-x: Tx
<hamitron> everything has just gone wonky here
<hamitron> :/
<slackthumbz> screen -UDx
<screen-x> slackthumbz: s/UD//
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: does that work? urlsnarf? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah took a moment to realise I needed -i eth0
<screen-x> "I wrote dsniff with honest intentions - to audit my own network, and to demonstrate the insecurity of cleartext network protocols. Please do not abuse this software." <-- good luck with that
<HazRPG> man pages helped :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you have that many interfaces? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have 2
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: erm... this is... interesting
<slackthumbz> with -UD you detach anyone else attached to your screen session and get UTF-8 support
<HazRPG> its not a pdf at all
<HazRPG> its an image file!
<slackthumbz> I find it rather handy
<HazRPG> and the images aren't embedded at all!
<HazRPG> http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45398/images/page6.jpg <==
<screen-x> slackthumbz: yeah, but without UD, you get my name :D
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can concatenate images into PDFs :)
<slackthumbz> lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but it might be easier to make the RSS feeds into PDFs (with the right fonts embedded)
<HazRPG> if I can work out their number scheme, I could probably write a little script out to grab these and... lol yeah make a pdf of it :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, but if I make a script to grab the actual newspaper... I could impress my family next time I'm over there :P
<dogmatic69_> \o/ icons and stuff
<HazRPG> they're offering it as a free service... so why not give that free service to my mum in a more manageable form for her to use :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: teach her Python :P
<HazRPG> I mean Al-Ahram (translation: "The Pyramids") is her favourite newspaper
<Myrtti> lolwhat? http://www.flickr.com/photos/suviko/5556049477/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Al-Haram 8-)
<HazRPG> Haram = Pyramid
<HazRPG> Ahram = More than one pyramid ;)
<screen-x> Myrtti: odd
<HazRPG> Myrtti: random...
 * HazRPG wants
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah.. not the opposite of halal then?
<HazRPG> Harram is why your thinking of then ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Dutch muslims write it "Haram"
<MartijnVdS> Wikipedia says Haraam
<MartijnVdS> \o/ transliteration
<HazRPG> Harram = Forbidden
<HazRPG> actually yeah Haraam would be more correct
<HazRPG> but that's a character-to-character translation, its pronounced more like it has 2 r's in it
<MartijnVdS> Which is why it's spelled "haram" in Dutch :)
<MartijnVdS> that would make the pronunciation more like taht
<MartijnVdS> that*
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> Haram (HarAM) would be pyramid :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Written Dutch is strange (sometimes vowels get strechted at the end of syllables, etc.)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> then how would you write pyramid (haram)
<MartijnVdS> Pyramide :)
<MartijnVdS> Or haraam
<HazRPG> cos that's not confusing :P
<HazRPG> I wonder if I release a way to grab this newspaper's images... would they find another way to *hide* it?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'd just generate PDF myself using the RSS feeds
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: embed the fonts, and try on kindle
<HazRPG> holy cow, they must have a decent webhost... seems they've got the older news papers in here too
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hah, I knew I was right! (I use to tell my mum that the reason the images were sometimes blurred on the newspaper, because they've exported it out wrong... and seems I'm right): http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45397/images/page1_zoom.jpg
<HazRPG> she always thought it was bad printing from time-to-time, seems they just don't know how to export properly
<MartijnVdS> fial :)
<HazRPG> I always told her its not possible that 5 family members (bought at different times and different places) would all come out the same if it was just due to bad printing
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that page looks like I need 3d glasses :)
<HazRPG> it does, doesn't it... but I highly doubt it'd produce the right effect with 3d glasses :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yeah it's in Arabic, so I'd need to wear the glasses in reverse :)
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> hmm, it must make sense from a printing aspect to do it that way
<ali1234> that's a scan of a bad print
<MartijnVdS> Sleep time. I'll leave you all with this: http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/44540023#luisterpaal.44540023
 * screen-x moves to a box with audio
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: your hooked on the Fitz and the Tantrums aren't ya :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: night dude :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: a little :)
<screen-x> sleep well MartijnVdS :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: that is possible...
<ali1234> or maybe not
<ali1234> looks like it's not a scan just heavily compressed
<ali1234> i can't really think of a way you could mess up the channels like that though
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh you could. If you had to. on purpose
<HazRPG> ali1234: they're still pretty new to the concepts of printing in colour
<ali1234> exactly, you'd have to do it on purpose
<HazRPG> hmm, food for thought ... can't be entirely on perpose: http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45398/images/page1_zoom.jpg
<HazRPG> that's the front cover of today's paper
<ali1234> looks fine
<HazRPG> exactly
<ali1234> ah
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: tune
<ali1234> i bet they generate those jpegs from 4 separate tiffs or something
<HazRPG> if you change  "Zoom_1500/<this number>/" and roll back a few articles... they're fine
<HazRPG> ali1234: bingo ;)
<HazRPG> which is what I always told my mum
<HazRPG> but she thought I was talking out of my ...
<ali1234> still, dunno how they could accidentally export one of the tifs with a different size than the others
<HazRPG> if they do it in photoshop and basically just hide a channel and then re-export, they might accidently slip the image a notch by mistake and didn't realise
<HazRPG> gotta remember they're mouse cursor is the wrong way round, and their scrolls on the other side too
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> if you compare the front page on different days the top logo moves around all over
<ali1234> so that's probably it
<HazRPG> which makes sense from an arabic point of view... however no two systems in egypt seem to ever be configured the same (esp. in windows)
<HazRPG> I wouldn't be surprised if each page is done by separate people either
<ali1234> what's this picture all about? http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45396/images/page1_zoom.jpg
<screen-x> ali1234: the bunny or the dudes?
<ali1234> the dudes
<ali1234> looks lke they're going to fight?
<HazRPG> ali1234: trying to read it... news papers are hard for me to read due to lack of reading skills and vocab.
<HazRPG> but I'll try...
<ali1234> if you can just tell me who it's a picture of i can probably find the rest on google :)
<HazRPG> first word is ansar ("look")
<screen-x> google docs OCR doesn't do arabic..
<HazRPG> screen-x: not surprising, its not really easy to read font
<HazRPG> some characters I can't make out
<HazRPG> because it could be a few things
<screen-x> HazRPG: it doesn't support arabic at all
<HazRPG> oh
<screen-x> otherwise, could have OCRd it then attempted a text translation.
<HazRPG> heh, android still doesn't support arabic yet either - yet their phones are selling like hot-cakes over there
<HazRPG> and all asking for arabic support ootb
<HazRPG> I can try and type out the characters into google translate...
<screen-x> HazRPG: do they have a version with real text?
<dogmatic69_> say i have a file like the following, how could i get the password out? https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/raw/beta/config/database.php.default
<dogmatic69_> im using while read LINE do for WORD in $LINE do ....
<dogmatic69_> must be a better way than that
<ali1234> dogmatic69 write a bit of php that instantiates the class and prints the password
<ball> Ubuntu's disk utility is a bit strange
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: i guess... and cat it to the bash script as a param?
<dogmatic69_> pipe
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: where does bash come into this?
<ali1234> i don't know php off by heart but it would be something like require "database.php"; x = new DATABASE_CONFIG; print(x.default['password'];
<screen-x> ball: what are you seeing?
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: im writing a bash script to do a backup, instead of saving the db password all over, i could just get it from the app
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: so its not a php app that needs to read the file?
<dogmatic69_> nope
<dogmatic69_> bash
<ball> screen-x: I tried to use it to reformat my MP3 player
<ball> brb
<dogmatic69_> sorry, forgot that part out :/
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: in that case grep password |cut -d "'" -f 3
<screen-x> or something close to that
<ali1234> that would work too
<dogmatic69_> hmm
<ali1234> you can put some php code on the php command line too
<dogmatic69_> does it not need to know the file name?
<ali1234> so you don't need a separate file
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: how do i put php code in the command line?
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: grep password filename |cut ...
<dogmatic69_> ah
<ali1234> go with grep
<ali1234> probably faster
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: => twice
<screen-x> grep password /tmp/test.php |cut -d"'" -f 4
<screen-x> off by one..
<HazRPG> screen-x: they do on the main site... but two days ago, and I'm not sure how far back the news articles on the site go (considering the news isn't timestamped on the site for some reason)
<HazRPG> so far I have: Ban Ki-moonÂ guardÂ trying toÂ protect itÂ fromfriction
<ali1234> ah ok
<ali1234> http://www.insurancebroadcasting.com/photos/1_20/photo/-2711021-1.html
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: awesome, thanks
<ali1234> english ^
<dogmatic69_> twice in the hour
<dogmatic69_> :)
<hcfd> Hey guys, I just recently installed an update that Update Manager was 'pushing' on me, for Adobe Flash Player. Now when I run VLC Media Player by opening a media file, X crashes. I get a segfault, something about ld-2.11.1.so -- is this related to the update? What is ld-linux.so.2 for anyway?
<hcfd> 10.04LTS btw
<hcfd> Also, when I try to run tilda, I get this output from dmesg: [  618.116116] tilda[4255]: segfault at 0 ip 0804ffbb sp bf9a2e10 error 4 in tilda[8048000+13000]
<ball> Great, now my Internet connection is bad too.
 * ball sighs
<ali1234> hcfd: well, your system is pretty messed up...
<hcfd> Yes, yes it is.
<hcfd> I didn't do anything to it, however, besides accept an update through Update Manager.
<hcfd> I'm on a slightly older than current kernel though.
<ali1234> none of that should cause segfaults
<hcfd> I know.
<screen-x> hcfd: have you tried ldconfig?
<ali1234> can you pastebin the last few lines of /var/log/apt/history.log?
<ali1234> they are time stamped
<ball> I'm trying to create a FAT32 partition on an MP3 player that presents itself as a USB flash drive
<hcfd> screen-x, I have not. I have no idea what ld-linux is.
<hcfd> ali1234, sure
<HazRPG> wow, I really don't know the placement of arabic characters (doesn't help that my keyboard doesn't have the letters on it)
<HazRPG> anyways so far: Ban Ki-moonÂ guardÂ trying toÂ protect itÂ fromfrictionÂ AltzahreinnÂ Alwidin
<ali1234> HazRPG: i found the english story linked above ^
<screen-x> hcfd: I'm a bit fuzzy, but I think its the dynamically linked library loader
<dogmatic69_> i got an exit in a bash script and it just kills the server connection... how can i exit without closing ssh?
<HazRPG> ali1234: aww... spoiling my fun keyboard mashing :P
<HazRPG> ah ok, that makes so much sense
<HazRPG> didn't realise Ban Ki-moon was a name :p
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: can you pastebin the script?
<ali1234> it;s the asian looking dude :)
<hcfd> ali1234, here it is: http://pastebin.com/zuFdt3pk   Please note that the flash uninstall, reinstall and the VLC uninstall, reinstall was just my attempt at a quick fix, a shot in the dark.
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: its my first k ;)
<HazRPG> ali1234: obviously :P
 * HazRPG proceeds to eat the pie my sister brought home
<HazRPG> from work*
<ball> Aha!
<HazRPG> and now my cousin in egypt is trying to write arabic letters to me...
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1481764846
<HazRPG> I really do need to practice reading arabic
<ali1234> hcfd: anything before that?
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: first attempt at bash, im sure its all wrong :S
<hcfd> ali1234, I can throw the whole thing up.. was just showing you what I've got. Before the upgrade, the machine was stable.. nothing of relevance going further back -- to my eyes anyway.
<hcfd> ali1234, http://pastebin.com/mwBm6V43
<zatan> Hi does anybody know how its calling that top panel ? http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TWZ34S45D_I/AAAAAAAADIU/_AUZeAEh1yg/awn-notification-daemon-applet.png
<ali1234> dogmatic69 you might want to look at using tempfile or similar for temporary files
<hcfd> That goes back a couple of weeks. I'm in GMT timezone btw.
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: how you mean?
<dogmatic69_> in /tmp
<ali1234> dogmatic69 see man tempfile
<dogmatic69_> oh
<ali1234> hcfd: i don't see anything in there that would cause such serious problems
<ali1234> hcfd: anything interesting on your dmesg?
<ali1234> also have you rebooted since update?
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: how are you calling that script with ssh?
<HazRPG> python can be compiled to an executable can't it?
<ball> Got it.  I had to use dd to write zeroes to the first few sectors and let it decide to reformat itself.
<ali1234> HazRPG: yeah
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: just gonna be a cron
<hcfd> ali1234, I have rebooted, yes. Will throw up dmesg for you. Nothing stands out to me, besides the problem.
<HazRPG> ali1234: great, might have to see if I can make a small simple (hopefully gui) app for my mum to grab these papers with :)
<ali1234> !py2exe
<cbx33> hey guys
<HazRPG> apparently not a factoid
<HazRPG> cbx33: hey dude :)?
<ali1234> ~info py2exe
<cbx33> howz it all going peeps
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: so where does ssh come in?
<ali1234> well, it's called py2exe anyway... makes windows exes
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: im ssh'ed into the box where im running it
<ali1234> there's not much point on linux
<HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
<dogmatic69_> if i just run the script with no param, it exits as if i typed exit in the terminal... not just the script
<HazRPG> wouldn't you need python installed first for the script to run
<ali1234> because they usually have python installed by default
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> hmm, run from terminal though (that's how I'm doing it at the moment)
<ali1234> and if not, that's what package dependencies are for
<hcfd> Thanks for your patience ali1234. dmesg at http://pastebin.com/ixiJbRhz
<HazRPG> cbx33: not bad, yourself?
<HazRPG> cbx33: thought anymore on covers?
<cbx33> i do have an idea
<HazRPG> winner :)
<cbx33> but not sure if I'll use it
<cbx33> :)
<HazRPG> always here if you ever need to brainstorm :)
<cbx33> thanks HazRPG
<cbx33> my wife is going to try to do a quirky design
<cbx33> if that doesn't work out - I have a reasonable serious one
<hcfd> alil234: You can ignore /dev/sdd... it is a failing drive which was removed from an array. I just haven't physically removed it yet, it's being RMA'd.
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: I can't reproduce that, If I run that script it just exits the script.
<dogmatic69_> :O
<cbx33> but I'm having issues with a merge right now
<dogmatic69_> one sec
<ali1234> hcfd: is it possible some other drives are failing in the array?
<HazRPG> cbx33: I can always see if some of my friends will spare some time and make some if you like too?
<cbx33> and I can't get anyone to answer my question in #git :)
<cbx33> HazRPG, as long as they realise it may not be picked - that would be awesome :)
<HazRPG> cbx33: well we're helpful :P ask away
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: well it doesnt just exit, it outputs "Please enter the S3 bucket to back up to" first
<cbx33> well i just did a merge - and got conflicts . no big deal - so I tried a git merge --abort...and it failed.....but a git reset --merge succeeded
<cbx33> the man page seems to suggest they should do a similar, if not identical thing
<cbx33> wanted to demonstrate an abort in the book - but it's not happening right now :)
<cbx33> problen is - because the test repository is linear - I cant do any more to it, until I sort this out
<hcfd> ali1234, it is indeed possible. The array is a RAID1 with one device, atm, as /dev/sdd is definitely fubar'd and was removed. Shouldn't be affecting tilda though.. and even trying to play media from other drives doesn't help the issue. The array in question isn't auto-mounted, so I could reboot and not touch it to see if it helps?
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1727955774
<ali1234> hcfd: if it's not where your softwar is stored it's probably not the problem
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: optimus-prime ;-)
<dogmatic69_> :)
<dogmatic69_> got the whole crew going
<hcfd> ali1234, yeah it's just data. Root partition is another array altogether with 3 very healthy 80GB drives in RAID1
<ali1234> hcfd: i suppose it *could* be if something is trying to thumbnail the videos or something like that
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: that may be a strange ec2 thing then. Maybe wrap the whole lot in a function and use return rather than exit?
<hcfd> ali1234, yeah.. hey I guess so. Unless you have any other leads/ideas, I think I'll reboot and give that array a wide berth, just to see if it has anything to do with it. Before I go, you couldn't do me a favour and paste me your ls -l for /lib/ld* ?
<ali1234> hcfd: you could try running vlc or tilda in gdb to see where it crashes, and use strace or ltrace to see what it is doing
<brobostigon-g1> evening everyone
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: aparentlly im not 'running' it, im 'sourcing' it...?
<screen-x> ahhh
<screen-x> I didn't even see the . in your paste
<dogmatic69_> that means nothing to me...
<screen-x> durrrr
<ali1234> hcfd: i'm not on 10.04
<hcfd> ali1234, good idea. Tbh though, I don't think I could interpret the results very well, but will give it a go.
<HazRPG> cbx33: sorry, had to visit the mens room... yeah I'm pretty sure they won't mind that
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: ./backup.sh
<cbx33> cool
<hcfd> ali1234, are you on 10.*? :)
<brobostigon-g1> is alanbell around?
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: thanks... will do that
<ali1234> hcfd: there's really only 3 possible explanations, 1. hardware fault 2. serious software bug 3. you did something weird and didn't tell us :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: that would explain why its killing your shell, as you are running those commands in the current shell, rather than starting a subshell
<dogmatic69_> guys in #bash are moaning about the ext also :(
<dogmatic69_> i see
<ali1234> where "something weird" = recompiled parts of the base system with weird patches or something
<hcfd> ali1234, hardware fault looks more likely really.. 3. is not an option, if the answer were 2. then everyone would be complaining with me.. which leaves hardware. Could be anything, right? RAM, CPU, HDD, mobo..?
<HazRPG> hmm
<ali1234> could be. cpu is usually the least likely to die like this
<HazRPG> cbx33: those do seem like very similar commands
<hcfd> ali1234, base is untouched. Customisations here and there but nothing out of the norm.
<cbx33> yes
<screen-x> hcfd: "normal customisations" is almost a paradox
<ali1234> hcfd: http://pastebin.com/6t80v1N3
<hcfd> ali1234, I confess, the machine does totally lock up sometimes.. but it is related to overheating when the ambient temp goes up. It's rocking a LOT of hardware in such a small case.. but having said that, temps are perfectly within normal parameters. 45C for the hottest HDD, 49C for CPU at times.. I put it down to bad HDDs.. looks like /dev/sdd isn't the only one.. but I'm fearful that there's something more serious. :/
<ali1234> what's GPU temp?
<ali1234> overheating GPU can cause all kinds of weird stuff to happen
<ali1234> if the machine locks up that could corrupt your filesystem in interesting ways
<ali1234> so that could be the cause
<hcfd> ali1234, -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 113964 2011-01-21 23:53 ld-2.11.1.so
<hcfd> ali1234, it's 46C. Slowdown threshold is 105C... I mean I think it should be stable upto say 55C, 65C.. it should certainly handle 46C. In fact, I have 3 identical GPUs.. this one was put in a month ago as I was troubleshooting the lockups.. this GPU and the one it replaced are fine as far as I can tell.
<AlanBell> brobostigon-g1: yup
<ali1234> hcfd: it can also be insufficient power supply
<hcfd> Alright, I'll only mount the root partition and e2fsck the rest.
<HazRPG> cbx33: hmm, can't see to find anything
<ali1234> hcfd: or bad capacitors on just about any component that has them
<ali1234> usually PSU and motherboard
<hcfd> ali1234, that was my very first thought. I put in a bigger one and it made no difference. Hmm.
<cbx33> nope me neither
 * hcfd nods
<cbx33> I'll use the reset for now
<cbx33> I'll ask in #git again tomorrow when it hots up
<brobostigon-g1> alanbell what is that place you told me about last night,i need to talk about certain things.please,
<AlanBell> #wrongplanet
<HazRPG> cbx33: I'm currently looking through the git community book: http://book.git-scm.com/index.html
<brobostigon-g1> alanbell thank you.
<hcfd> ali1234, could be looking for a new system. Ran memtest, and all 8GB is fine. Guess I'll run  off of a liveCD for a few days to eliminate the HDDs and see where to go from there. Thanks for your help, you're being spot on with your analysis.
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: \o/
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: how's it going squire?
<cbx33> HazRPG, traitor :p
<cbx33> hahaha
<cbx33> j/k
<brobostigon-g1> hazrpg its going crap, in truth.
<HazRPG> cbx33: hehe was going to say, can't be a traitor if I'm trying to help shape yours ;)
<hcfd> ali1234, just one last thought, do you think that the correlation between heat and lockups (and now segfaults) makes sense if it is a capacitor issue?
<cbx33> that is very true
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> Thanks for trying to find out
<cbx33> a little googling here didn't show anything either
<HazRPG> no problem :)
<cbx33> if yo ulook in the man git merge
<ali1234> hcfd: sure, bad capacitors are basically ones that aren't as heat resistant as they claim to be
<cbx33> there is something about aborting
<ali1234> hcfd: they fail because the electrolyte in them dries up
<cbx33> oh no - not badcaps :p
<cbx33> anyone remember that?
<ali1234> remember it? i've got loads of free stuff because of it :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: *hugs*
<hcfd> ali1234, ie: failing capacitors work less well under heat/slightly better when cooler? I have an Asus P5Q Pro board which is supposed to have high quality capacitors.. at least the specs/sales tag says so.
<ali1234> hcfd: certainly possible, yes
<ali1234> even high quality caps wear out eventually
<ali1234> and life span depends on the environment they are used in
 * brobostigon-g1 hugs hazrpg
<ali1234> if you run them at 80 degrees they won't last as long as if you run them at 50 degrees
<hcfd> ali1234, so if it is indeed the mobo, are the caps replaceable or should I just scrap the board? I think about Â£70 for a 2nd hand one, probably aren't any new ones left around.
<ali1234> depends on the board
<ali1234> i have recapped motherboards before
<HazRPG> badcaps?
<HazRPG> badcaps on hardware?
<ali1234> but don't get too hung up on the capacitors, it's just one posible explanation :)
<screen-x> tomorrow I will blame all faults on "bad capacitors"
<ali1234> it might not even be hardware issue (that is, the previous GPU issue may have caused FS corruption that is still around now you fixed the GPU)
<screen-x> http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ballard/bofh/bofhserver.pl
<hcfd> Well put it this way, I've eliminated the following: RAM, PSU, GPU... CPU has always had a good life, well cooled. I unplugged all expansion cards. HDD wise, I indentified a bad one, gave the others a clean bill of health for now. That leaves CPU and/or mobo. How can I t/shoot those without simply replacing them to see what happens? :/
<ali1234> you can't
<dogmatic69_> i made a dir called ~ in ~/
<dogmatic69_> :/
<hcfd> ali1234, I figured :)
<ali1234> unless the capacitors are visibly leaking brown goo
<dogmatic69_> rm ~ ...
 * hcfd looks
<HazRPG> cbx33: googling inside that book, seems the only place abort is mentioned is here: http://book.git-scm.com/4_rebasing.html
<hcfd> I can't see for all the coolers and wiring. hehe
<HazRPG> along with a page on git hooks
<ali1234> hcfd: google images -> "badcaps"
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: rmdir ~/\~
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> badcaps were prevelant a good few years ago now
<cbx33> apparently someone stole the formula for the electrolyte, copied it down wrong and took it to another company
<ali1234> hcfd: i notice you have a message about unchecked filesystems... you should run a check :)
<dogmatic69_> screen-x: lol, thanks
<cbx33> they started making lots of cheaper capacitors....but their electrolyte was bad
<dogmatic69_> i almost did sudo rm ~ -r
<cbx33> seen a fair few mobos with badcaps
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: good job you didn't :)
<dogmatic69_> tell me about it
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: that would have been a bad plan :P
<dogmatic69_> i did rm ~ just to see, and then it said ~/ is a dir...
<dogmatic69_> close call
 * dogmatic69_ wipes brow and continues
<hcfd> ali1234, that's on /dev/sdd (now unplugged).. which is a failing drive. The rest should be upto date and healthy.
<HazRPG> hmm, I realised a flaw in my calibre recipe... didn't notice this before... its output the text as left-aligned
<screen-x> hcfd: do you get any problems when running from a live cd/usb?
<hcfd> ali1234, screen-x, my board has solid state polymer caps.. I don't think the bad-smelling brown-oozing cap failure case applies
<ali1234> probably not then
<HazRPG> and it doesn't seem to separate the paragraphs with any spacing
<hcfd> screen-x, I haven't done so in a long time. I intend to try that shortly however. The only machine I can IRC with at the minute is this one that I'm on.
<screen-x> hcfd: rebooting is a pain, when you only have one box available
<hcfd> screen-x, definitely. Anyway, I'm going to reboot as usual and leave some HDDs unmounted, run e2fsck, see if things can be improved. Then, I'm going to boot a liveCD and get back to studying for the night.. see if it's more stable.. etc. Probably get back to you guys later on it. Thank you so much for your input.
<brobostigon-g1> good night everyone, sleep well.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: are you just about in every channel on irc :P?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: every channel I've ever been on @ freenode, you seen to hang out in :P
<dogmatic69_> any recommendations for encrypting a tar.gz file?
<jacobw> Depends on your requirements
<dogmatic69_> i would like to not use the pw in the command if possible
<dogmatic69_> just to encrypt backups
<dogmatic69_> work asked, as they said in the contract backups are encrypted
<dogmatic69_> its not cc details or anything funny... just std data stuff
<jacobw> Public key cryptography
<jacobw> This looks useful, http://www.brandedclever.com/how-to-setup-encrypted-offsite-backups/
<dogmatic69_> i guess if someone hacks the box they can do what ever they like
<Cepheus> dogmatic69_: try `openssl enc -e -aes-128-cbc -k "password" -in file -out file_encrypted` to encrypt and `openssl enc -d -aes-128-cbc -k "password" -in file_encrypted -out file_decrypted`
<Cepheus> to decrypt
<dogmatic69_> then the pw to decode is in the logs
<dogmatic69_> or not?
<jacobw> Isn't that the whole point of encryption dogmatic69_, that if the backup system is compromised the backups cannot be decrypted
<jacobw> I see what you mean with passwords in the logs, but the answer to that is not to use passwords in commmands
<dogmatic69_> im more worried about the box being hacked
<Cepheus> it would be unless you clear the bash history.
<dogmatic69_> there is s3cmd so they can easily list / download all the files and decode
<dogmatic69_> the backup script does s3cmd put something.tar.gz s3://bucket_name
<dogmatic69_> so they can just do list s3://bucket_name then download
<dogmatic69_> and decode
<dogmatic69_> is it possible to make ssh only work from a set ip?
<jacobw> I don't know exactly how to do it, but you can use GPG to encypt files using public key encryption without storing the passphrase anywhere
<Cepheus> you could replace -k with -pass stdin for the above. problem solved.
<dogmatic69_> Cepheus: it has to run in a cron
<Cepheus> jacobw: gpg -e file
<Cepheus> i think
<jacobw> http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual/x110.html
 * hamitron blocks access to sshd using a firewall
<shauno> sshd should obey hosts.allow & hosts.deny, but I'd usually consider that a job for a firewall too
<dogmatic69_> hamitron: you mean using a pub key with no pw login? or more than that?
<hamitron> I was just refering to blocking access to a service, with the exception of some known good addresses
<hamitron> I'd also have other stuff in place ofc
<dogmatic69_> right, atm all i have is ssh only + fail2ban
<shauno> I get paranoid about locking myself out, so I allow sshd from two different isps, rather than locking it down silly-tight
<hamitron> I dunno the "right" way to do it in ubuntu
<dogmatic69_> i have a bunch of ec2 boxes for clients, and a ec2 'main box' for all sorts of internals (hosting git etc)... i been thinking of only allowing ssh to the client boxes from the 'main box' and then only allowing ssh to the main box from the static office ip
<dogmatic69_> so it would be ssh office -> main box -> client box {n}... is that just mad, or a good idea?
<hamitron> I'd go office to each server directly
<hamitron> but mainly because I get cheap hosts with huge lag
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> the main worry with what you say, is the first box has to be secure
<hamitron> main box sorry
<shauno> there's nothing nuts about using a bastion.  you just have to be careful that you're reducing access to every client machine, to a single point of failure
<hamitron> that also
<dogmatic69_> also i dont want ssh from client box {n} -> main box (even though its only office people that have access)
<dogmatic69_> shauno: what you mean about single point of failure? like limit the places they can be hacked?
<shauno> well, if you do anything to take the main box down, you can't get to anything else
<shauno> (you or anyone else)
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> i see
<dogmatic69_> if that box is screwed, so is everything
<shauno> I think the biggest single step you can take with sshd is to disallow password logins, keys only
<dogmatic69_> its for hosting a hosted solution... something like lighthouse ish... but for the current ugly version of the app there is one install per client... we are busy rewriting it to be one install with replication and failover something like the fb platform etc
<hamitron> more secure and saves typing when logging in \o/
<dogmatic69_> shauno: that is done
<dogmatic69_> saas or what ever its called
<dogmatic69_> SaaS
<screen-x> snakes and awesome stuff
<dogmatic69_> exactly :D
<dogmatic69_> software as a service :P
<hamitron> s/awesome/awful
<hamitron> ;/
<dogmatic69_> ok, this basestation thing is seeming the right way for now... should only be about 5 or 10 client boxes on this old version
<shauno> key-only and a bastion host gets a bit awkward tho, because you need your private key on the bastion to be able to get to any other node from there
<shauno> so if that one box is compromised, they literally get the keys to the castle
<dogmatic69_> also makes the admin part easier for me, .ssh/config on one box
<dogmatic69_> shauno: well that box will only be accesible from the ip of the office, so they would need to be a unix wizz as its a mac mini :D
<dogmatic69_> plus, they would have to do it during office hours as the pc's with pub keys to the basestation are laptops and get taken home
<dogmatic69_> how does spoofing ip addresses work with ssh? is that even possible
<shauno> it's just something to keep in mind :)  if you're going to put all your faith in one place, be paranoid about that one place
<dogmatic69_> god... this will be the end of me
<dogmatic69_> mac address from that ip...
<dogmatic69_> :D
<shauno> eg, if the keys are going home on laptops, what's the plan if laptops are lost/stolen
<dogmatic69_> well then its even easier as you can just drop that key off the base station, instead of every client box
<dogmatic69_> and remove the mac address from the 'safe' list
<screen-x> dogmatic69_: as long as you get there first
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> and the laptops have pw's on (all macs)... damn fanboys
<hamitron> give them keys to login to a static box at the office ;)
 * dogmatic69_ is the only one not running mac in the office :D
<dogmatic69_> so personal pc -> mac mini server -> base station -> client box?
<hamitron> yeh, hehe
<dogmatic69_> will need to not use the mac mini though, 80 / 22 is forwarded to that
<hamitron> oh, for remote admin? :/
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> checking hudson etc
 * dogmatic69_ has the android hudson app :)
<dogmatic69_> i wonder how fb keeps 500mil people out
<dogmatic69_> there must be so much people just trying random shit all day
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-25
<shauno> facebook has the ultimate defence
<shauno> if you manage to log in, they show you pictures of you drunk, that some "friend" helpfully uploaded
<shauno> =x
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<dogmatic69_> lol
<dogmatic69_> tx for the advice all, much appreciated
<dogmatic69_> $serverAdmin['skills']++;
<dogmatic69_> will figure out the bash version soon :D
<HazRPG> F... (almost swore then) YEAH! Managed to get calibre to do pdf conversion :D
 * HazRPG does happy dance
<HazRPG> shauno: ubuntu uses an old script to do pdf export for other apps
<HazRPG> managed to force calibre to use a different one :)
<shauno> good stuff
<HazRPG> now if only I can force the recipe to download as a pdf...
<HazRPG> and hopefully get it to be right-to-left and not left-to-right, because this looks too confusing :S
<hamitron> !server
<HazRPG> ooo, I should get some Terry Pratchett!
<shauno> in arabic?
<HazRPG> shauno: that would be sacrilege!
<HazRPG> I'm only trying to download arabic news sites... so the next time I go to visit my mum I can go "hey look, aren't I a clever lad"
<HazRPG> that, and I'm too scared to put "arabic kids books" into google...
<shauno> well bleep.  pay just arrived, and it looks like the taxman did worse than I thought possible
<shauno> by my math, they're taken about 45%.
<HazRPG> did he take you round the back, wine, dine and dress you?
<shauno> it looks like that's the only thing he didn't take :p
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> ouch, man 45%!
<HazRPG> can they do that??
<HazRPG> considering its only 25% here
<HazRPG> ~25%*
<hamitron> "here"?
<X3N> explaining revenue generation of oprnspurce at a dinner *raally* hard
<X3N> *opensource
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> hamitron: UK?
<HazRPG> 25% is emergency tax, which I always seem to get roped into :/
<X3N> especially after a few drinks
<hamitron> works out higher than 25% with NI :/
<HazRPG> X3N: I've tried explaining it to many people before and they go "but how!? Your not selling a product!?"
<X3N> exactly
<HazRPG> hamitron: I doubt its 45% though
<hamitron> maybe it is a rich guy complaining ;)
<HazRPG> X3N: its shocking how people seem to forget that a service can still be charged for - despite it being a non-physical object
<HazRPG> hamitron: I wish I was rich...
<HazRPG> I'm the sort that says if ever I was rolling in it... I'd actually go out and try and extract it from the bank and try to roll in it...
<hamitron> can never have too much money
<hamitron> gotta re-invest
<HazRPG> I've seen so many use the phrase... yet, when they do come into a nice sum, they don't actually roll in it as they said they would - but maybe I take the phrase a little too literally :P
<hamitron> they maybe mean dog poo?
<HazRPG> . . . . . . .
 * hamitron shrugs
<hamitron> never tried it
<hamitron> "don't knock it till you've tried it"
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> well, there goes the new laptop :(
<dutchie> ?
<hamitron> :/
<dutchie> and probably :(
<HazRPG> hamitron: guessing you've never had to unblock a toilet with your bare hands before then...
<hamitron> i've used gloves
<HazRPG> not that I'm saying I have...
<HazRPG> hamitron: not quite bare though is it ;)
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> and on that note... I think its time for a topic change :P
<HazRPG> shauno: so, what is the tax rate over there exactly?
<hamitron> but if someone wants to.... so long as they are out of smell range, let them
<hamitron> </p>
<shauno> usually just over 20.  plus whatever charges they keep inventing
<hamitron> <p>
<HazRPG> shauno: so how's it 45%?
<HazRPG> shauno: life insurance, etc?
<shauno> because my bonus took me way out of my bracket
<shauno> and it appears the taxman responded by pocketing pretty much the whole thing
<hamitron> what rate is the higher bracket?
<shauno> 40, plus charges
<shauno> their latest thing has been to call new taxes 'charges', because they exist outside of tax brackets
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: 25% :O
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: yeah...
<hamitron> sounds familiar
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: that a wrong value?
<dogmatic69_> the site i was looking at said im on about 20%
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: look up BR
<dogmatic69_> BR?
<HazRPG> I think its BR
<hamitron> basic rate?
<dogmatic69_> wait, i guess its above 20%... a portion is being taxed at 40%
<shauno> my best guess is that their plan to solve unemployment, is to screw anyone who does work, so hard that they'd rather leave the country
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, that's what I always get placed on with every job
<dogmatic69_> lol
<HazRPG> works out worse then bing on an L code
<HazRPG> being*
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: http://listentotaxman.com/index.php
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: yeah I use that site a bit
<shauno> think I'm gonna take a walk into work tomorrow to pick up my chit 'n see what the numbers actually look like
<dogmatic69_> should just get the work to pay directly to HMRC and then let them send you any change
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, you know the first time I'd ever heard the word "chit" was when I was in the Philippines, and they tried to rip us off
<HazRPG> they tried to charge us twice
<shauno> seems to happen most places :/
<HazRPG> ironic thing is, we were told the story about watching out for them bring the chit back once you'd paid earlier that afternoon
<HazRPG> bringing*
<HazRPG> I worded that poorly
<HazRPG> hmm... we were told earlier that day about a story of a guy who got ripped off by bring the chits back after he'd already paid... apparently they'd printed two prices one on either side
<HazRPG> one was higher then the other side
<HazRPG> I've made it my soul will to take photos of the chit & cash and then again when they take it away with the cash...
<HazRPG> can't say we're lying then :P
<HazRPG> almost got ripped off a second time later that evening, but I'd done the above and threatened to call the police on them
<HazRPG> soon went quite after that :)
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> volume to headphones never goes high enough from comps
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> first time, they tried to make out that me and my dad were pissed and that we didn't know what we were saying... just because apparently they can do the math and work out how pissed we are on how many we had per hour... clearly they've not met the Mike & Haz drinking duo ;p
<HazRPG> hamitron: windows?
<hamitron> yes
<HazRPG> hamitron: its due to european sound volume laws
<hamitron> fk europe
<hamitron> erm, ignore them I mean
<hamitron> I want power
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> there's a way to get around it...
<shauno> I just can't do it cap'n
<hamitron> I use an external amp
<HazRPG> I know on my MP3 player (creative zen) for it to be hearable I had to set it to 25 (max vol) to hear it... I went and downloaded the US firmware... setting the volume to 25 would blow my ear off
<shauno> I'm so annoyed at this, that I'm really tempted to buy the laptop anyway & just enjoy being broke as dirt this month
<hamitron> shauno: if you wait, prices may fall
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> nah, it's a mac.  they don't get cheaper :p
<HazRPG> s/may/*will*
<hamitron> they get more powerful then
<hamitron> or you could get a cheaper proper machine that is built more carefully
<shauno> hah
<HazRPG> hamitron: my trick... build the machine yourself
<dutchie> HazRPG: i find that headphones in my laptop are painflu at more than ~60%
<shauno> I'm not into homemade laptops :)
<dutchie> painful even
<hamitron> HazRPG: a laptop?
<HazRPG> hamitron: not only do you get a longer warrenty on your gear... you also get to build it the way you want :D
<HazRPG> so win-win \o/
<dutchie> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> what is there to put together on a laptop? :|
<HazRPG> dutchie: also depends where your headphones were bought/manufactured, and what voltage they're optimized to
<HazRPG> hamitron: http://goo.gl/5SlX9
<HazRPG> hamitron: its do-able, you just have to be prepared to spend a bit of time measuring what you've got to work with
<shauno> you're not going to end up with anything near sensible doing that
<hamitron> I personally buy them ready made
<shauno> laptop motherboards don't come in standard shapes & sizes
<HazRPG> http://goo.gl/rLJtG <==
<hamitron> why not solder all the parts onto a circuit board?
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I've always argued that RAM, CPU, GPU should all just be tracked up properly on a single board to get rid of lag/latency/bottle-necks
<shauno> that article points out that you don't really get a choice of motherboard
<HazRPG> but until intel/amd/nvidia/ati/etc can all play nicely... its unlikely to ever happen
<hamitron> AMD owns ATI...
<shauno> so you get to pick your own cpu & harddrive, just so you can put together a laptop that's twice the size of something you'd otherwise buy
<hamitron> I like to read plenty of reviews of off-the-shelf models, and pick the best for me
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> heck, not even worth building a desktop pc these days for average joe
<hamitron> I like to get a laptop with less memory though, saves a lot of money, cheap to upgrade yourself
<shauno> yeah, I never mess with build-to-order options.  they never work out well
<hamitron> shauno: btw, I am a bit of a mac fan too, just always been too tight to invest :/
<hamitron> macbook pro look nice :)
<shauno> eg, ram in apple laptops. buying it BTO you pay twice as much for the ram, and make it more difficult to return it if anything goes wrong
<shauno> if you buy a 'stock' model it's easy to get them to take it back at the first sign of trouble.  BTO, they'll avoid it unless they really have to
<shauno> so you buy it stock, and just put the old ram back in if it needs to be returned
<shauno> cheaper & you get better service.  no-brainer :/
<hamitron> silly really :/
<shauno> and that's one of the less silly examples :(
<hamitron> I am still considering doing something really silly... building a comp with a fpga
<hamitron> not helping me resist doing so, when I am shown building laptops
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I really fancy playing with that, to toy around with some odd cores
<shauno> but I'm waiting for someone else to take care of the hardware first :)
<hamitron> there are verilog and vhdl samples of code under the GPL
<shauno> there's a whole bunch on opencores
<hamitron> main hurdle is getting everything available working together
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I'm also not sure what architecture I'd want
<hamitron> maybe a 286 with minix as the OS
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> then have a GSM module and stuff to make phone calls
<shauno> well that's boring.  they already exist :p
<hamitron> a 286 phone....
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> if you wait for someone else to make something for you to build.... they will already exist then ;p
<hamitron> I'm not looking at designing my own cpu core, OS and everything
<shauno> see, that's the bit I want to play with
<hamitron> I want to....
<hamitron> just not yet
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> building a comp from scratch with parts already available is a start
<shauno> I'm really curious what it'd actually take to take an old cpu design, move it to 64bit, and move the OS with
<hamitron> why you need 64 bit?
<shauno> because 2038 is coming :)
<hamitron> for a really rubbish phone, cost me Â£350 just to start I worked out
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and that is worse than everything else on the market.... apart from it would be all mine ;)
<shauno> okay, I've done the math, I'm still getting my mbp, and Herself is going to hang me.  sorted.
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> someone did point out to me I'd be better getting a N900
<hamitron> in fact, a few have told me
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> the real problem here of course, is that I insist on spending 2 grand on a nice laptop.  but I'm not gonna let the frikken tax man stop me
<hamitron> haha, yhe
<hamitron> yeh*
<hamitron> I think my plan in the near future is to sort my mass of crap
<hamitron> don't need all the machines I have setup
<shauno> wire it all together and see if it attains sentience ?
<hamitron> and the ones I keep really need to have similar setups
<shauno> why? if they're similar you don't need them all :)
<hamitron> ubuntu 10.04 with a apt-cache
<hamitron> they do different tasks
<hamitron> and in different rooms
<hamitron> only got 5 in this room
<hamitron> also, different tasks on different machines, means the systems you have don't struggle as much
<shauno> I still want to figure out what on earth they did with the numbers tho, because this can't be right
<hamitron> I was considering having vmware to have less machines, but it really doesn't work as well
<hamitron> shauno: if it is wrong you get a refund at the end of the year?
<hamitron> tax year I mean
<shauno> I've no idea how that works here, because I've never got anything back from them
<hamitron> I actually have a seperate bank account labeled "tax savings"
<hamitron> and 50% of all my profit goes into it
<shauno> these numbers just can't be realistic.  my bonus is 12% of my annual.  what I actually received was 0.02% of my annual.
<hamitron> but you are an employee :/
<hamitron> sounds messed up
<hamitron> 0.02% is enough for a laptop? :-o
<HazRPG> ...thats odd
<shauno> heh, no, 0.02% isn't enough for a laptop.  it's enough to make me cry :p
<hamitron> if it was enough, I was gonna cry ;)
<shauno> haha
<shauno> it means instead of spending my bonus on the laptop, I'm spending a large chunk of my regular pay instead
<shauno> but I think my choices are either make it work, or go visit the revenue office & get arrested :)
<HazRPG> you know what, I never did hear from that guy about my extension again...
<HazRPG> I wonder if he just gave up out of noobrage
<shauno> rrrrrage
<shauno> the local apple shrine doesn't open 24hrs.  do I drum my fingers on the desk for 7 hours, or take a nap
<HazRPG> drum fingers on desk :D
<hamitron> drum for 1 hour, then nap ;)
<HazRPG> we are here to assist your boredom :)
<shauno> ooh, I have credits on audible .. that might burn a few minutes
<HazRPG> you buy audio books often?
<shauno> yarp
<shauno> I subscribe to their 'audiblelistner' thingie, where you pay a flat rate and receive a couple of credits a month
<shauno> then whenever I remember, go along and turn them into books :)
<HazRPG> I've always been told that audio books are useful if you want to do other things while listening to a book... but well I find I end up being sad at the edge of the seat as I listen... so I might as well have just read it lol
<shauno> I keep meaning to cancel it, but whenever I remember it's still there, it's racked up enough credits that I get excited about getting new books instead :)
<hamitron> haha
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> what do the server iso have on?
<hamitron> different kernel?
<HazRPG> ubuntu-server?
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> it is a different kernel for 64bit, for 32bit it's just -generic
<HazRPG> it just has less gui-related tools and apps
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> maybe not worth me downloading
<HazRPG> ?
<hamitron> can just install cli from the 32 bit cd
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't you mean remove the desktop environment?
<hamitron> there is a stripped version option on the alt cd
<shauno> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu.intrepid/server-ship
<shauno> that'll give you an idea of what it does differently
<shauno> there has to be a prettier version somewhere, but the seeds are handy for getting straight answers
<HazRPG> hamitron: if you want I could just burn off a 32-bit and 64-bit version of ubuntu-server and ship them to you
<HazRPG> if it's the download time that your worried about
<hamitron> I've got better internet now ty
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> I'll even ship another disc with the .iso on it :)
<hamitron> getting 1.4mbit stable
<HazRPG> that not torture?
<HazRPG> I have trouble with 8Mbps
<hamitron> better than the 0.2mbit I was getting
<shauno> if you've already got a mini iso, I'd just go with that and build up as required
<hamitron> my plan is to use mini.iso
<HazRPG> there is a mini.iso?
<shauno> getting the -server kernel by default isn't worth wasting a whole cdr on
<hamitron> but grab the .deb's off the alt cd, so i don't have to download it all
<HazRPG> hamitron: that was the main reason I said I'd ship it to ya if ya wanted :)
<hamitron> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<HazRPG> postie should be around in about 3hrs or so :P
<hamitron> I love these mini.iso
<hamitron> they should be advertised more
<hamitron> I couldn't actually find them through the ubuntu website
<hamitron> had to use google
<shauno> that's probably pretty intentional
<HazRPG> yeah
<hamitron> it is? ;/
<HazRPG> new users would have a hard time with them if they found them by mistake and tried to use them
<shauno> given the users ubuntu's aiming for, a few obvious choices is better than long list of decisions
<HazRPG> "I'll download that one cos its smaller"
<hamitron> when i started with ubuntu, I actually went to debian because I didn't know about them for a while
<shauno> if you compare http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download   to http://www.debian.org/CD/
<HazRPG> hamitron: you mean you didn't initially trust ubuntu over debian?
<shauno> ubuntu defaults to 'the latest 32bit desktop', with an easy option to switch to 64bit if you're sure
<hamitron> and defaults to the livecd hassle
<shauno> debian gives you a list of http/ftp/torrent/jigdo, and then gives you a list of 10 arches without any clues
<shauno> even then, the netinst images are less than obvious
<hamitron> I don't mind the page as it is, just give more options under "alternative downloads"
<shauno> if you want choices, you use http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/  :)
<hamitron> where is that advertised?
<HazRPG> you know, I just thought... windows has made it easier for people to download and burn iso files... isn't that almost like a step in the right direction to making it easier to people to download linux and install it?
<shauno> right here baby :D
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> it's not advertised.  because it's confusing to users, and skips mirrors completely.
<hamitron> oh, and it put me on a slow ass mirror earlier
 * Azelphur built this today, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110324_225040.jpg
<hamitron> 6kb/s
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> my second PC build :)
<shauno> they keep doing that to me.  geoip keeps giving me heanet in dublin
<shauno> which is lovely, geographically.  but it's slow as pants
<hamitron> Azelphur: more like a monster, with that dongle out of the front
<Azelphur> hamitron: don't hate my Ubuntu stick :O
<hamitron> what is glowing on the mobo?
<shauno> why does everyone make PC cases look like bad props from scifi movies :(
<Azelphur> hamitron: Republic of gamers logo :P
<hamitron> bright white
<hamitron> erm, ok ;/
<Azelphur> pretty leds :3
<hamitron> I like a boring case
<directhex> shauno: a combination of reasons
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, it always seems to point me to heanet too :/
<directhex> hamitron: i like understated.
<shauno> HazRPG: geograpically, it's probably right.  but it's wrong.
<directhex> a case should look like a bentley, not an old type-r with custom decals
<hamitron> black with some sort of trim is nice
<hamitron> bentley ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110325_023445.jpg
<shauno> this is a pretty obvious reply from me, but I really wish it was straight forward to put a normal motherboard/psu in a mac pro case :)
<Azelphur> ubuntu stick :D
<directhex> hamitron: mine's http://www.hardwarezone.com.ph/img/data/articles/2007/2280/Lianli_Casing2.jpg
<shauno> that tells me I've come to an invalid page?
<hamitron> mine did first time
<HazRPG> directhex: that's pretty cool
<shauno> but lianli are pretty hot in general.  until they try to give you more 5" bays than anyone will never need, and completely ruin the lines
<hamitron> re-pasted and worked
<hamitron> lianli do a DTX case I fancy
<hamitron> only trouble, psu is on the side :/
<Azelphur> http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u7/antec_case-thickbox.jpg my case :D
<shauno> I kept looking for htpc cases that were pretty.   they seem to be rarer than hen's teeth too
<HazRPG> my case: http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=731
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm, that seems to be a rather popular case
<shauno> if you ever get to play with a mac pro, take the side panel off and marvel at what a good case looks like :)
<HazRPG> shauno: nah, what ya want is a dell server case!
<Azelphur> HazRPG: indeed :)
<HazRPG> man oh man... those cases are tidy in there!
<shauno> HazRPG: http://www.architosh.com/features/2006/reviews/macpro/images/macpro_inside-lg.jpg   that tidy?
<HazRPG> (tidy as in everything nicely has a place and no wires trailing everywhere...
<HazRPG> shauno: ... that looks rather scary actually lol
<HazRPG> not cos it's an apple or anything
<HazRPG> just... well.... how are you meant to access anything??
<HazRPG> looks like a mecano set
<shauno> you pull it out
<shauno> it's all just modules.  they're just fitted together perfectly to make 3 or 4 air channels
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> well as long as you can access stuff... then that's pretty cool
<shauno> I really wish I could do that with a bog-standard intel workstation mobo
<directhex> hamitron: old case was http://www.casedesigns.net/wp-content/lian-li-pc-v1100-1.jpg
<HazRPG> I was half expecting it to be like a laptop, where one panel just reveals another layer of panels that you need to unscrew
<shauno> most of it's completely obvious once you start yanking things.  except the cpu coolers, which are a complete *cough*
<HazRPG> shauno: well, I'd say you could... http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/ReviewImages/TtShark/ttsinsideimage.jpg
<HazRPG> shauno: that's the inside of mine
<shauno> they use a gel/liquid paste between the die and the cooler, so once you break the seal to remove the heatsink, you need a new one
<HazRPG> shauno: I must say, nasty cough you've been having today ;)
<shauno> I really do try not to swear in here :)
<shauno> is there a shelf in that one? or is that just a strut/bar
<hamitron> my case http://www.ebuyer.com/product/119589
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> not quite a shelf...
<HazRPG> but its not exactly going to fall off
<shauno> I meant more, is it compartmented
<HazRPG> its got like 1.5 inches on flat metal on either side where the PSU goes
<HazRPG> which bits?
<HazRPG> what you see is what you get :P
<shauno> at the top where the psu goes, I can't tell if that's compartmented so that it's a separate airflow, or if that's just a well-placed strut
<HazRPG> I can take some close ups for ya if you like
<shauno> just a slight angle would help :)
<shauno> perfectly side-on makes it difficult to see what that horizontal bar actually is
<HazRPG> I'll apologise for lighting before I take it... won't be that great because i don't intend on turning it off lol
<shauno> it's just one thing people don't seem to think out when they homebuild cases.  most seem happy enough to be "a box with everything in it"
<shauno> and don't particularly care that their super-duper video card(s) are heating the entire case
<hamitron> still there? ;)
<HazRPG> yup
<shauno> I mean, I'm just as bad.  my PC has hairties holding back some cables that seem insistent on repositioning themselves inside the cpu cooler
<HazRPG> shauno: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5m49vq5G7lMNkt5dM8qTeg?feat=directlink
<shauno> cool, that does look like the top section is mostly blocked off
<shauno> and I like that people have started sticking harddrives sideways.  that makes so much sense it's silly
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, the top is mainly blocked off
<shauno> used to have a machine where I had to unplug almost everything from the board, because the drives were so close to the mobo, that the path to pull them was obstructed
<shauno> sideways, the cables don't interfere with airflow, and I can pull the disk without disturbing the rest of the machine :)
<HazRPG> there's another two fans you can't see in that photo (or any most photos)
<HazRPG> its between the front door and where the hard drives go
<HazRPG> actually I think its just a huge big fan...
<shauno> that said, the best case I've ever had was http://www.aqua-computer.de/images/products/systeme/chieftec_1_500.jpg
<HazRPG> iirc, it blows air in from the front, and blows it out to the outer fan and up through the psu
<HazRPG> so two exists, one entry
<shauno> chieftec makes some pretty monstrous cases, but doesn't go overboard on making them look like scifi props
<HazRPG> and the lid that goes in the open space is just essentially a grill... so the air from the CPU just blows straight out
<HazRPG> probably the worst way of testing, I did the fag test on it...
<HazRPG> lit up a fag... and watched how the air goes through
<shauno> heh
<HazRPG> always paranoid about airflow
<shauno> I just get irked by things that seem like really bad choices
<shauno> like a psu that vents air in thru the bottom and out thru the back
<HazRPG> like having a PSU at the bottom of a case >_<
<shauno> so if it's mounted in the top of the case, the feed is hot air from the cpu
<shauno> if it's mounted in the bottom, the feed is choked
<HazRPG> shauno: nah, when its mounted at the bottom, people tend to have the fan pointed up
<HazRPG> so... its technically draws the heat from the GPU
<shauno> I don't mind having the psu in the bottom.  bottom-heavy is useful :)
<HazRPG> either way you can't win
<HazRPG> shauno: guessing you haven't noticed the feet in my image then
<shauno> I don't like that they seem determined to line the front wall with hdd bays
<shauno> my old one had feet.  hate 'em :/
<HazRPG> shauno: where would you have them?
<shauno> anywhere they're not obstructing :)
<shauno> the drive cage in yours
<HazRPG> oh... see if I designed a case... I'd ideally have them slot from the top
<hamitron> either of you know a good ITX case?
<hamitron> for an i3 system
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> picture that turned 90Âº, then stuffed in the space infront of the psu
<HazRPG> hamitron: I've had this case for 4-5 years or more dude, so not really :P
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> so they're slotted | | | | with something to pull air out the top of the cage
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, see that's where I was going with the HDD's :P
<shauno> then you can actually pull air from the front of the case out the back
<shauno> if you picture yours without the drive cave in the front, you'd be able to put two front-fed ducts in it
<shauno> one feeding the gpu, one feeding the cpu
<shauno> and just venting straight out the back
<shauno> so neither of the hottest components in the case are being fed air that's been pre-heated
<shauno> the gpu there, looks like if there's a cooler on it.  it's feeding and venting into the same well of air between the card and the base of the case
<shauno> I realise these things don't actually turn out to be problems in the real world, but I like it if it makes sense in my head :)
 * shauno wonders how long it's kosher to rant to himself before it needs to be cut shot
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> just looking at cases
<hamitron> as my ITX is in a full ATX case atm
<shauno> if you come across one that looks like a nice, clean dvd player, let me know :)
<HazRPG> shauno: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lpcogv6tvve7frd/Case%20Design.png
<shauno> HazRPG: what I'd love to do, is build it in two layers
<shauno> so looking from the front you've got -|-
<shauno> the motherboard is | in the center.  one side has cpu & gpu, ducted so they're individual airflows
<shauno> then the other side of the mobo, you've got psu & cd/dvd in one channel, and harddrives in the other
<shauno> (because dvd aren't a significant source of heat, they're just annoyingly big boxes you've got to stuff somewhere)
<hamitron> I like the look of this: http://techreport.com/articles.x/19641/1
<hamitron> shame about the slim dvd drive
<HazRPG> well in that picture I made, the top is its own compartment
<shauno> I don't mind slim; I'd love a slotloader
<HazRPG> although, I guess what would be better... would be to have a spacer between the PSU and HDDs
<HazRPG> and have a fan in the front blowing out so the HDDs are on their own airflow to the PSU
<shauno> http://www.origenae.co.kr/images/products/h5/htpc_shot5.jpg    something like that, but with a slot-loading dvd, and no display, just a little trapdoor exposing some usb ports on the front
<shauno> I don't need a display & ir receiver, we've two phones & an ipod that are all quite capable of being boxee / xmbc remotes over wifi
<HazRPG> indeed
<shauno> but I do want front-facing usb ports, because if I can't hook up controllers for mame & emulators, it may as well just be a $20 dvd player
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> also means you can't have mates come over with a USB and a film attached ;P
<shauno> reminds me
<HazRPG> and if you say that doesn't happen often... does here :P
<HazRPG> I like my new cast that arrived today
<HazRPG> far better than the ones amazon were planning on selling me
<shauno> doesn't here, none of my friends live in the same country as me :p
<HazRPG> surely you have friends there though :P
<shauno> ...
<shauno> some day, I really should get off my rear and do something with this junk; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/4.jpg
<HazRPG> and actually make a mame machine?
<Azelphur> gah, Natty installer is annoying me
<shauno> :D
<HazRPG> I must say I've been tempted myself :P
<Azelphur> first time around it crashed, second time around it presented me with an option to replace Natty (no mention of my windows install) and wiped the entire HDD \o/
<Azelphur> so now I need to reinstall windows again :P
<shauno> oops
<HazRPG> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_CTxty9Vo3RI/TYwNvyLBrAI/AAAAAAAAASU/XlWFLWALc3M/IMG_20110325_033239.jpg
<HazRPG> note: never install alpha/beta builds on production/development systems :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: yea, I didn't loose any data it's a fresh install :)
<Azelphur> just irritating that I have to go back again :p
<shauno> note to self; wow/mage ebooks shouldn't be advertised in public :p
<Azelphur> also I run natty as my main OS :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: indeed :P
<HazRPG> :o
<HazRPG> bare soul
<Azelphur> have been for like a month now
<HazRPG> brave*
<Azelphur> HazRPG: it's even more brave when you realize how off the wall my system is
<HazRPG> I did that during Jaunty, Koala, and prob a few others... never again >_<
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I doubt anyone on the testing team has a GTX 570 with an x58 mobo, twin graphics cards and quad display
<shauno> I've never done that.  half the point of moving off debian was to get onto a sensible release cycle & not have to track unstable
<HazRPG> I booted up one day (I always have install security updates by default)... and poof everything was gone
<Azelphur> I'd actually like to move to a rolling release distro/fork one day
<Azelphur> I hate having to manually install everything to keep it up to date
<hamitron> off to bed
<Azelphur> haha I doubt it'd delete my data, if the OS goes wonky I'll just reload
<hamitron> no decent cases out
<Azelphur> I have separate /home
<shauno> night hamitron
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I did >_<
<HazRPG> nite
<Azelphur> and it just wiped your data? wow :o
<Azelphur> why?
<shauno> I had sid show up unbootable a good few times, but never any data loss
<HazRPG> Azelphur: short answer - it fudged the grubnuts
<Azelphur> o.O
<shauno> the only one I actually remember was a bad glibc update
<HazRPG> proper answer: if corrupted the filesystem when they were playing around with extx (x being the number I can't remember they were playing with)
<shauno> which was entertaining, because it meant that any process that ended, couldn't be relaunched
<HazRPG> it*
<Azelphur> :P
<shauno> it was a good lesson in not resorting to reboots to fix things tho :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> Anyone know what on earth these are btw? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110325_034541.jpg
<HazRPG> lol
<Azelphur> a bunch of them came with a case I bought, I've assembled the entire machine without using them
<HazRPG> hard drive locks
<HazRPG> instead of using screws
<HazRPG> mine has them
<Azelphur> I see o.O
<Azelphur> I wonder how they fit on xD
<shauno> duct tape!
<Azelphur> YAY
<HazRPG> its **** awesome!
<HazRPG> specially if your like me and constantly getting bigger hard drives to store more stuff
<HazRPG> some will be for the CD/DVD bays too
<Azelphur> you havn't seen my case clearly :p
<HazRPG> I have... I helped a friend build a machine with your case :P
<Azelphur> :D
<HazRPG> not *your* actual case fyi :P
<Azelphur> easy to replace parts are easy to replace
<HazRPG> those are easy to attach btw :)
<HazRPG> the two plastic pins go where the screws normally would
<HazRPG> then twist to lock in place :)
<HazRPG> most of the cases that have those aren't necessary to screw both sides of the devices
<Azelphur> I see
<HazRPG> mine, is almost near impossible to get to the other side even if you *did* want to screw them from both sides
<Azelphur> in other news, I made a minecraft skin...be afraid http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-25_03.53.05.png
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> haha
<shauno> mine's a pirate :)
<Azelphur> haha :)
<HazRPG> winner!
<Azelphur> the eyes...they are looking at you xD
<HazRPG> mines a smiley dude in a suit
<Azelphur> I keep seeing people with creeper skins, so annoying
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> it'd go well with my "thing" for building ships, but you can't rotate view to screenie yourself
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> shauno: can if you have someone else do the screen ;)
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-21_00.41.36.png
<HazRPG> or get dual accounts...
<shauno> this is my latest project.  baconomatic :D
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> wait... how!
<shauno> pigs & lava
<HazRPG> just traps unsuspecting p...
<HazRPG> yeah
<shauno> and ladders
<Azelphur> shauno: mines better :p
<shauno> dun care :)  mine's single-player, so doesn't need silly amounts of bacon :)
<Azelphur> shauno: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-20_22.56.23.png
<Azelphur> hehe :P
<kaushal> hi
<shauno> also, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-14_03.32.32.png   makes me happy
<Azelphur> hi
<shauno> morning kaushal
<kaushal> Azelphur: hi
<kaushal> shauno: hi
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<HazRPG> Azelphur: where'd you get the 'buntu stickers from for your flash drive?
<HazRPG> mornin kaushal
<Azelphur> HazRPG: ubuntu shop
<kaushal> please help me understand about the issue http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585182/
<kaushal> HazRPG: Hi
<kaushal> How do i resolve it
<HazRPG> erm...
<HazRPG> kaushal: try visiting - http://archive.ubuntu.com/
<HazRPG> does that even load up?
<Azelphur> kaushal: it looks like a connection issue, your trying to download from archive.ubuntu.com but getting local IP addresses
<Azelphur> yea, try that
<HazRPG> looks like its timing out
<shauno> I think that's intentional, popey was helping him setup a caching apt proxy the other morning
<Azelphur> fun
<kaushal> shauno: that fixed it
<kaushal> so when i remove the local lan address from sources.list
<kaushal> i still get the error
<kaushal> Let me pastebin the error
<shauno> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-25_04.08.51.png    my current project, and why my toon needs a pirate skin :)
<Azelphur> shauno: nice :D
<Azelphur> shauno: I have a base under an ocean miles away from everyone else :D
<Azelphur> it's funny people keep asking me why I'm in the ocean when looking at the map :)
<shauno> it was walled on 3 sides, until I needed to expand the rail into two tracks.  much tnt later ..
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> so now the left-hand side looks a bit .. gimpish
<Azelphur> shauno: http://game.azelphur.com:8123/ pull the side bar out and click Azelphur :P
<Azelphur> also blimey I'm the only person on, that doesn't usually happen :p
<shauno> hah, nice
<shauno> what are you using for that map ?
<Azelphur> hehe, I literally swam out there, dove into the ocean and chugged food while drowning to start digging XD
<Azelphur> dynmap
<Azelphur> it's live, if I run around you'll see, watch :P
<shauno> hah, that is snazzy
<shauno> and the textinput lower left?
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> that's for chat
<HazRPG> shauno: wicked :D
<shauno> that really is quite nifty
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> :)*
<Azelphur> Also Windows 7 is stupid, Password: (Recommended), Password Hint: (Required)
<Azelphur> It's ok if you don't have a password, just as long as you have a hint to the password you may or may not have, it's all good.
<shauno> I was trying one called pigmap, but it completely outweighed the available ram on my vps
<Azelphur> hehe, this basically generates chunks as changes happen
<Azelphur> so it's low resource
<shauno> overviewer is going nuts now that my map is about 35Mb
<Azelphur> my map is 150MBish xD
<shauno> I set overview going doing day & night views of my map, and woke up to sms yelling at me about disk quotas :(
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/low-down-new-server
<Azelphur> quotas, I don't have to worry about them
<shauno> which is a poopy way to wake up, because that host does my email, so no disk = no mail
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I don't even particularly worry when I get DoS'd, I've got so much bandwith I just iptables and absorb
<Azelphur> It's nice :)
<shauno> heh, well I'm not paying $150/mo :)
<Azelphur> true
<shauno> neither do I need that kinda beefery for a mailserver
<shauno> stuck a failover mx on one of buyvm's $15/year plans, other than that I'm happy on Â£10/mo
<Azelphur> yea, I need a lot of server for multiple gameservers :)
<Azelphur> got plenty of room for minecraft though :)
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/585188/   :D
<Azelphur> shauno: http://pastebin.com/yXPBQuWy :D
<shauno> (0 cached because failover mx does diddlysquat until I break the primary)
<shauno> ew, you're swapping
<Azelphur> lol 1.8GB for MC server atm :D
<Azelphur> all 16MB XD
<Azelphur> and that's because of kernel swappiness
<Azelphur> it's a performance thing, it's fine and actually faster than not swapping
<Azelphur> (you don't want to swap on a VPS, but on a dedi it's faster/fine)
<shauno> I tend to take anything that spends too long in swap, as a sign that it probably shouldn't be there
<HazRPG> I'm guessing Rhythmbox doesn't actually store the library anywhere... it just scans the folders each time...
<HazRPG> or am I wrong with that assumption ?
<shauno> HazRPG: I hope you're wrong :)
<HazRPG> shauno: can't find a folder where it'd store its data other than gconf
<Azelphur> shauno: the notice how I have 3.7GB in buffers/cache? :P
<shauno> this is where I <3 apple for fseventer.  but .. hmm .. strace?
<shauno> you should be able to watch exactly what files it's hitting
<Azelphur> shauno: the kernel is prioritizing keeping files cached in memory which are constantly being written to, rather than some idle application that's doing nothing
<Azelphur> so on a dedi this is faster, it keeps the files it's constantly messing with in memory and slams some totally idle process into swap
<HazRPG> ?
<shauno> Azelphur: ofc.  I just avoid having idle apps doing nothing :)
<Azelphur> on a VPS it's bad because disk I/O is at a premium :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> I'm lost now lol
<shauno> but when I'm that narrow for ram (that claims I have 256, but I've 128+burst), I have to
<Azelphur> shauno: pfft, guess where I started my empire?
<shauno> mongolian steppes?
<Azelphur> shauno: 32MB VPS running debian :)
<shauno> HazRPG: try ~/.local/share/rhythmbox
<shauno> that's dot-local
<Azelphur> I had that from vpslink.com, they totally messed me about I had like 90% packet loss to the server and they made up some crap about how I was out of RAM when I very clearly wasn't :p
<Azelphur> I ranted about it here, and Daviey hooked me up with a VPS for the same price that didn't suck, then later I upgraded to 64MB, 256MB, then I went and got the dedi :)
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-19-005746_1633x777_scrot.png internet empires :P
<HazRPG> wow firefox 4 loads pretty darn fast!
<HazRPG> shauno: cheers :)
<shauno> 4.30am .. half way there
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585192/
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, again cheers... managed to fix my db for it :)
<HazRPG> kept saying I didn't have songs that I knew I actually did in said music folder :/
<HazRPG> moment
<shauno> I think 'NODATA' is the imperative word in that paste.  I don't think your cache is actually returning anything
<shauno> if you can find any logs for service that's providing the apt cache/proxy, I think they'd lead you to the problem
<shauno> (or if you can wait until the sensible people start waking up, you may find someone who uses the same apt-cache service)
<Azelphur> :( natty installer crashes every time for me
 * Azelphur tries a 10.04 CD
<shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnavy/5553425877/   do want.
<shauno> I keep putting the kettle on & forgetting to make coffee.  how am I ever going to survive 5am like that
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> My mob spawner machine randomly started producing eggs, upon further review, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-25_04.53.19.png
<Azelphur> I wonder how he survived the lava and made it down there, very enterprising o.O
<shauno> noice
<Azelphur> can't complain, free eggs are free :D
<shauno> ugh.  now I want to play, but I can't be bothered rebooting for it
<HazRPG> aww man, apparently ubuntu wasn't selected for the google summer of code
<HazRPG> shauno: reboot?
<shauno> minecraft keeps crashing with GL errors, but seems to work fine on 10.7
<shauno> 10.7 being a developer preview, I don't tend to use it any more than I have to
<HazRPG> hmm, how come books aren't subject to VAT?
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, that makes sense
<HazRPG> speaking of coffee...
 * HazRPG goes to make a brew
<shauno> I think I'm getting old.  I've discovered that the bbc world service is actually interesting
<HazRPG> hmm, I started reading the news about 2 years ago :/
<HazRPG> I get called old just for that alone
<shauno> also feels a bit daft that my preferred way to do so now is streaming on my phone :/
<shauno> seems incredibly wasteful after years of building radios, but it's so damned handy
<HazRPG> wait, I'm lost... you mean the bbc world service?
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I don't know if its real leather... but this kindle cover smells like it is :)
<HazRPG> don't know why, but the smell of fresh(ish) leather is just awesome
<shauno> used to live next door to a guy that'd tan hides on a wooden post at the bottom of the garden.  less than awesome :p
<HazRPG> ... don't know what that would smell like
<shauno> mostly just strange chemicals
<HazRPG> ... ... ... ... why did I expect the "text-to-speech" on this would actually speak in Stephen Fry's voice (other than the fact that he's the author of this sample ebook)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> so the kindle's new then ?
<HazRPG> oh, heh yeah only just got it this week :P
<shauno> ah
<HazRPG> why do ya think I'm currently obsessed with it at the moment - new toy to play with :)
<HazRPG> was an impulse-buy when I saw it in tescos @ 4am in the morning
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I do want to pick up something to read pdfs a bit more comfortably, but not yet
<HazRPG> if even I'm rolling it... I'll get you one ^^
<shauno> haha
<shauno> well the plan was to pick up a new ipad this month, until I discovered I had a bonus coming
<HazRPG> I'll even let you pick what model/make :P
<shauno> just holding off because this laptop's degraded to the stage where replacing it comes first
<HazRPG> hmm, guessing text-to-speech is never going to sound properly /real/ is it
<shauno> it's getting better, but: no
<shauno> my a500 did text to speech.  my mac does too, and it's really not that significantly better
<HazRPG> I'm  going to find this archived log in 10 years time and probably eat my own hat for saying /never/ lol
<shauno> I mean, it's noticeably better, but doesn't feel like 20 years worth of improvement
<shauno> hm, that's a new one from firefox
<HazRPG> I don't know... the kindle does sound better than most though... but well I'll let you be the judge
 * HazRPG scurries off to record
<HazRPG> shauno: ?
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-03-25%20at%2006.17.40.png
<HazRPG> ogg okay with you?
<shauno> sure
<HazRPG> hmm, how odd (you link)
<shauno> hah, that's awesome
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-03-25%20at%2006.20.15.png
<shauno> I can't figure out what plugin it thinks it needs
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/kindle%20text-to-speech.ogg
<HazRPG> wait, you have a SID plugin for firefox?
<shauno> I do
<shauno> sorta
<HazRPG> is that the plugin your having trouble with?
<shauno> hm, would I be able to find the text of that anywhere?
<HazRPG> the book?
<shauno> I don't think so, just noticed it in the plugin list
<shauno> yeah.  or atleast just the passage they're reading out
<HazRPG> hard to follow?
<shauno> was curious to compare with what the OS has built-in
<HazRPG> ah :P
<HazRPG> Moab Is My Washpot, by Stephen Fry
<shauno> $ find /Library/ -name SIDPlug.plugin
<HazRPG> it showed up as "recommended" for me apparently
<shauno> /Library//Internet Plug-Ins/SIDPlug.plugin
<shauno> apparently it is a browser plugin, it's not just being lifted from somewhere else.  <3 sidplug
<HazRPG> you know, I keep forgetting the MacOS has a unix base lol
<shauno> technically, MacOS doesn't, and Mac OSX does :p
<HazRPG> pedantic much :P
<shauno> sorta :)  but as MacOS is an OS, and isn't remotely unix-based at all, it makes a difference :)
<HazRPG> hang on, if you want I'll see if I can cut the DRM out of the sample
<shauno> no worries, taking a peek to see if I can find it on mine
<HazRPG> ooo, see now that's much better... (speed of calibre v.0.7.50, as opposed to the v.0.7.18 in the repo which I was using a few nights ago)
<HazRPG> if you've got an android, or Kindle for Mac (PC/etc) software, you can grab the book that way
<HazRPG> not sure if you can grab it without a "kindle" based piece of kit
<shauno> hah, $6 what?
<shauno> I got kindle.app :)
<HazRPG> ah phone :P
<shauno> naw, http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000464931
<HazRPG> iPhone more precisely
<HazRPG> ah, so Kindle for Mac... like I said :)
<shauno> I use stanza on my phone.  it's fantastic :)
<HazRPG> I've heard about that, any good?
<shauno> I like it
<HazRPG> what format do you want the book in?
<shauno> mostly because it doesn't try to tie itself to any store  (well, multiple stores)
<shauno> epub would be easiest, otherwise I think I have calibre around here somewhere
<HazRPG> wow... that... actually... worked!
<HazRPG> clearly the samples aren't DRMed
<shauno> heh, I just found the sample :)
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/
<HazRPG> oh...
<HazRPG> was going to say take your pick, its in azw and epub
<shauno> trying to figure out why kindle.app hasn't noticed yet :/
<HazRPG> hmm
<shauno> ah, there we go.  just have to restart it, because it's braindead
<HazRPG> so the "give it a knock on the head" tricked made it work then
<HazRPG> speaking of "why didn't it work", I'm pretty such I said "buy" to two books @ Â£0.91p ... and they still haven't come through yet (even when hitting sync)
<HazRPG> hmm...
<HazRPG> wait, what was the $6 for?
<HazRPG> this book is Â£2.65 apparently
<HazRPG> so that would be ... $4 at most?
<shauno> that's the price .com was giving me
<shauno> pft, can't copy & paste.  ty amazon
<HazRPG> stop people stealing books I guess
<shauno> I'm just trying to get text-to-speech to play the same section you did
<shauno> they've disabled Services, so I can't do it from within the app itself
<HazRPG> (but I'm pretty sure there's a py script that opens Kindle for PC/Mac select book, close, and it asks you where to save the DRMless book...
<HazRPG> I linked to epub above :)
<HazRPG> I'll redo from page 1 if you want?
<HazRPG> because that's from 31% (whatever that means) of the book
<shauno> no worries, I'm getting there :)
<HazRPG> do you want man or woman version? :P
<shauno> I'm just playing with this now.  it'll sing it if I ask it to :/
<HazRPG> if you've still got my tmp folder open, refresh and you'll see sample-female.ogg
<HazRPG> its playing page 1 (or well start of chapter 1) and a bit of the 2nd page too
<shauno> see if you can play http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/sing.aiff
<shauno> (no idea what aiff is, but it's apparently the default output for the voice engine :(
<shauno> it's less fair comparison, and more 7am ADD :)
<HazRPG> aiff is an old sound format iirc
<HazRPG> I remember that format from when I was 14
<HazRPG> couldn't play that in totem
<HazRPG> opening up in audacity
<shauno> speaking of 7am, I'm surprised no-one's awake yet.  MartijnVdS hiding?
<HazRPG> haha!
<HazRPG> oh yeah... random
<shauno> tell me that's not just a little bit strange :)
<shauno> I'd love to leave it on that setting, but I actually use the speech engine :/
<HazRPG> ...strange, all I understood from most of that was "bacon slicer"
<HazRPG> and the start
<HazRPG> "you should watch out for... he is Chinese... dead legs... bacon slicer"
<HazRPG> was all I could make out :P
<shauno> sounds like a fun night out
<HazRPG> haha
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/ralph.aiff
<shauno> (not the default voice either, but the one I tend to have it on)
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently audacity is still open
 * HazRPG tries vlc for now
<HazRPG> apparently not
<shauno> the firewall app I use, uses voiceover if it needs to prompt, but it can't come to front
<HazRPG> right... where do I kill it
<HazRPG> oh right
<shauno> which would be an odd detail, until it needs to ask for an outbound exception while I have a game running
<HazRPG> erm... that's... I don't know which one I don't understand more :S
<shauno> eg, if I open minecraft, hit fullscreen, and then try to connect to a server I haven't used before, I get big boomy voice of god telling me the connection's been filtered
<HazRPG> sounds like stephen hawking
<shauno> yeah, they all kinda do.  except the silly ones, which sound worse :)
<HazRPG> hmm, see at least the kindle one is understandable I guess :)
<HazRPG> she's even more audible when set to the slow option, however does sound a bit more mechanical
<HazRPG> (if that's even possible)
<HazRPG> there's a point, does ubuntu have one?
<HazRPG> apparently there's "Festival" that does it in ubuntu... but not provided ootb
<HazRPG> isn't that technically discrimination against people who can't see :S
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I have about 90 irssi windows at the moment
<HazRPG> AlanBell: woah, no way!
<kaushal_> hi
<AlanBell> speech in Ubuntu is provided ootb
<kaushal_> is there a way to know the hard disk rpm ?
<AlanBell> HazRPG: at a terminal prompt try: spd-say "Ubuntu like totally rocks dude"
<kaushal> i checked sudo lshw -C disk and hdparam and cat /proc/scsi/scsi
<HazRPG> AlanBell: also, good morning :)
<kaushal> no info there
<kaushal> AlanBell: hi
<AlanBell> and yeah morning all
<AlanBell> kaushal: normally printed on the disk, just pop it out and have a look
<HazRPG> AlanBell: oh wait, yeah I've heard that voice before in mumble... heh, I thought it was built into mumble since it does the same in windows
<HazRPG> festival sounds nicer though :)
<HazRPG> I'll see if I can get a recording of it :P
<AlanBell> spd-say uses speech dispatcher
<AlanBell> which is a common interface to many speech to text back ends
<AlanBell> so it could use a nicer synthesis if you plugged one in, then applications like orca would just use it too
<AlanBell> one thing you can do with the mechanical voices is speed them up, some blind people listen at *huge* speeds
<shauno> they'd love ireland then
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ubuntu-festival-its-talking.ogg
<HazRPG> sorry the volumes a bit low... i didn't check it before saving
<HazRPG> actually that's really poor... I'll try that again
<shauno> check to see if it'll spit it straight to a file?
<shauno> eg, on mine I just did say --voice ralph --out ralph.aiff <file
<HazRPG> its like python, when you type in festival, it takes you to a "festival> " prompt
<shauno> sure.  and like python I bet it can be run non-interactively too :)
<HazRPG> --pipe sound about right?
 * HazRPG looks in man
<shauno> --tts filename seems to read from a file, but it's still asking for /dev/dsp :(
<shauno> Run in named language, default is english, spanish, russian and welsh are available
<shauno> overachiever :/
<HazRPG> well "festival --pipe > file.ogg" then giving it something to say after the prompt, then closing didn't do anything
<HazRPG> its just a blank file :(
<kaushal> AlanBell: sorry was away
<kaushal> its a remote server
<kaushal> running ubuntu 10.04
<shauno> bonus points for BUGS: More than you can imagine.
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> apparently you can pipe it through using echo "text you want to say" | festival --tts
<shauno> the manpage :)
<HazRPG> but to save to file, you can't for some reason
<HazRPG> there's a program called text2wave though
<HazRPG> !text2wave
<HazRPG> (apparently not)
<shauno> $ dpkg -S `which text2wave`
<shauno> festival: /usr/bin/text2wave
<shauno> *thunk*
<HazRPG> oh heh, yeah just realised (doh!)
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> wait... so its part of festival :S
<shauno> exactly :)
<HazRPG> hmm...
<HazRPG> to the BATCAVE!
<AlanBell> kaushal: with hdparm -t you can test the performance of it, but I don't think that gives RPM directly
<HazRPG> shauno: >_< >_< >_<!!!! OWWW!
<HazRPG> TOO LOUD! (thinks he's gone def now)
<HazRPG> that output was really really bad!
<shauno> bad? or do you just have your volume all the way up because your last one was so quiet to listen to
<HazRPG> I'm at 15% (and now have sore ears)
<HazRPG> I'll see if I can clean it up in audacity
<shauno> I'm sure I had a way to query for a harddrive's model number, but every VM I try it on laughs at me for not having a harddrive
<HazRPG> nope... that's just unfixable for some reason...
<shauno> I think I'd just resort to dmesg | grep -E 'ATA|IDE' as they're printed during boot, then google the model number.  the actual rpm isn't really communicated to the OS because it simply doesn't need to know
<HazRPG> shauno: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ubuntu-festival-is-talking2.ogg
<shauno> I don't know what worries me more about google.  that they'll one day end up implanted in my skull.  or that I one day won't have access to google
<shauno> HazRPG: four-oh-four!
<shauno> (*its)
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ its in there!
<shauno> aye, but you spelt it wrong :p  copy 'n paste man
<shauno> I'm bored.  I think I'll update my natty VM.  :D
<HazRPG> bleh, I typed it out because I'm just c&p-ing the file from one directory over to the server lol
<shauno> I name the directory each vhost lives in, by it's canonical name.  so I can copy 'n paste from there :)
<HazRPG> what was the thing you needed to do in 7hrs (remembers you said something about staying up or napping because of a thing)
<shauno> eg, /srv/www/example.com/tmp/
<shauno> :(  upgrade wants to remove gnome-user-guide
<HazRPG> ah see I have my setup differently
<HazRPG> smb://<servername>/www/www.hazrpg.co.uk/htdocs/tmp
<HazRPG> its a windies server ya see
<HazRPG> before /htdocs/ I have these folders: cgi-bin, logs, (and a few backup ones)
<HazRPG> (and a few protected pages I think go inside there too)
<HazRPG> hmm, should this worry me? (error.log) :: 2011] [error] [client 62.177.251.198] client sent HTTP/1.1 request without hostname (see RFC2616 section 14.23): /w00tw00t.at.ISC.SANS.test0:)
<HazRPG> wow, apparently I've been getting a few attacks over the last few nights#
<HazRPG> all checks for usual folders (does not exist because of my folder scheme)
<DJones> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: HTTP server?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Welcome to the world of constant attacks.. same wit hssh
<HazRPG> yeah
<MartijnVdS> they won't hurt as long as you keep up to date (and maybe install something like fail2ban and configure it to ban IPs that make an "evil request" too often)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I run denyhosts on all our servers and public facing devices.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: does that work for non-ssh things as well?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. That's the one I'm really bothered about.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, that's also fail2ban's default
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seems like it's just ssh/
<MartijnVdS> but it can read any log file you ask it to (as long as you supply a regex that matches "this is evil" lines )
 * MartijnVdS nattyfies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting - I might take a look at fail2ban.
<DJones> I'm in the market for a new laptop, priced below Â£500, lower if possible, are there any specific machines people would recommend that work OTB and are minecraft capeable :)
<MartijnVdS> Intel graphics are dirt cheap
<MartijnVdS> and have proper GL support, so I imagine MC works
<DJones> MC?
<DJones> minecraft, sorry
<ali1234> pinetrail
<ali1234> eg http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-inspiron-mini-10.aspx
<AlanBell> there are loads around Â£350-400 with 1366x768 screens and intel graphics that will work fine
<DJones> ali1234: I'm probably looking more for a desktop replacement rather than netbook
<AlanBell> AMD or core i3 processors
<MartijnVdS> i3 â¥
<TheOpenSourcerer> i3 is nice, shame the VGA port scanning issue is *still* there though.
<DJones> AlanBell: Thats about the sort of thing I'm looking for, although preferably a 1600*900 screen
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: port scanning issue?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: explain :)
<AlanBell> yeah that issue is dragging on
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hang on.
<AlanBell> vga port output is wobbly
<DJones> Although that does seem to bump the price up quite a bit
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah.. so DVI is fine?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bug 614238
<ali1234> 1600x900 is a weird resolution
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 614238 in Linux "Intel Core i3 External Monitor Wavy Output" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614238
<AlanBell> hdmi
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have no problems using DVI/HDMI on my i3
<AlanBell> and you can get hdmi-DVI adapters quite easily
<DJones> Ideally, 1600*900, 4Gb memory, dvd rewriter, maybe hdmi output
<gord> ah must be spring, giant bumble bee's have started invading my house, causing me to run in fear like a child
<DJones> Is there much performance difference between an i3/i5 & Athlon II X2 dual core
<DJones> Its that long since I bought a computer, I'm not up to date on processor performance
<gord> i would expect so i<thing>'s are crazy fast
<AlanBell> unless you are doing something specific then don't worry about the CPU
<gord> looking up a quick benchmark - i5's are about 2-3 times faster than the fastest X2
<MartijnVdS> I bought to soon.. Sandy Bridge has i7s with built-in graphics
 * MartijnVdS wants
<AlanBell> I would pick an i3 with more ram over an i5 with less
<MartijnVdS> I hit the peak of my i3 sometimes now
<MartijnVdS> (CPU-wise)
<MartijnVdS> it's really frustrating
<MartijnVdS> but if/when I upgrade I'm also buying a bit more RAM :)
<BigRedS> I've generally heard that i3s aren't worth bothering with
<BigRedS> that is from hardware snobs, though
<gord> if i have 2gb of ram then i'm not interested in more, i would pick an i5. ram is easy to upgrade, cpus aren't so much
<gord> i3's are budget cpu's, you get what you pay for
 * BigRedS tries to only get what other people pay for
<ali1234> lol 2gb
<gord> i'v get to be in a situation where i require more than 2gb of ram
<DJones> ali1234: 2gb would be a 4 fold increase in what I'm using :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't imagine I'd have issues with 2gb
<BigRedS> I've no idea what I have now
<ali1234> my current memory usage is 2.4gb
<BigRedS> heh. 2GB
<ali1234> i'm not even running anything special
<gord> ali1234, real memory or cache
<ali1234> real
<BigRedS> I run firefox, claws & terminator basically
<AlanBell> I have several virtualbox instances running
<screen-x> I have 384MB free out of 8GB on a normal desktop.
<ali1234> if i started up a virtualbox i would be swapping because i only have 4gb
<gord> there are instances where you would require > 2gb memory, but most people don't need that
<MartijnVdS> i3s are the Celerons of this age :)
<ali1234> yeah, instances like "opening more than one firefox window"
<gord> ali1234, no - firefox will make *use* of more ram, but it doesn't require it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or just the one with a Flash page
<BigRedS> yeah, i can get loads of firefox on this
<BigRedS> it needs restarting every few weeks, but it is a web browser, not some HA server
<ali1234> flash is using only 38mb
<ali1234> firefox is using 500mb
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Flash uses 100% CPU though
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> it does for me, all the time
<ali1234> currently the highest cu user is gnome-system-monitor at 32%
<ali1234> *cpu
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/PhEyU.jpg
<ali1234> that's the only thing using more than 1%
<screen-x> Heh, my highest residential memory user is shutter, an annoying perl screenshot tool that I keep meaning to remove
<czajkowski> morning
<BigRedS> it's a daemon?
<screen-x> BigRedS: not really, but I forget to kill it as it starts whenever you press prtscrn
<gord> cpu is something you want on demand, it might not be used 100% of the time like ram is, but when it is used you want it to finish its operation as quickly as possible. its "time sensitive" - you want "enough" ram, but generally you always want a faster cpu
<gord> good morning cztab!
 * czajkowski peers at gord oi cheeky no cake for you
<czajkowski> far too early to be tabbing me
<screen-x> czajkowski: I'm not sure I've ever typed czajkowski
<ali1234> there's simply no point having a fast CPU if every operation causes a page fault which take 1.3 seconds to service
<ali1234> which is my current situation
<gord> ali1234, you'll note the word "enough". if you had less ram firefox would simply not cache as much stuff
<gord> the idea that it would eat in to swap is just plain false. else using firefox on my netbook would plain not work
<ali1234> it's funny, because firefox on my netbook *does* plain not work
<gord> maybe you need a faster cpu ;)
<ali1234> or more memory
<gord> 1gb memory on my netbook, works great
<gord> dual core 1ghz cpu
<mistertim> join #liftweb
<mistertim> sorry all
<mistertim> missed a /
<ali1234> highest memory user on my netbook is actually empathy
<ali1234> at 127mb
<ali1234> does zeitgeist serve any purpose if i don't use unity?
<gord> bunch of programs use it
<gord> look at your deps
<ali1234> i removed it, only thing that got removed with it was unity
<ali1234> and a bunch of libraries like libzeitgeist
<shauno> dropbox tends to be my biggest memoryfiend :(
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<kazade> morning bigcalm
<HazRPG> shauno: same :(
<HazRPG> does natty actually play nice in vbox yet?
<shauno> how'd you mean?
<HazRPG> or rather does vbox play nice with natty
<HazRPG> shauno: well, it was having render issues...
<shauno> it works for me, it just doesn't exhibit anything that people are complaining about, because there's zero 3d support
<HazRPG> hmm, might have to give it a shot
<ali1234> hmm... well firefox maximum memory cache is 29mb... that blows away the "it's caching" theory
<HazRPG> ali1234: ?
<shauno> firefox has always given me the impression that it likes to pig out on about 80% of whatever's available
<HazRPG> shauno: same, I've downloaded ff4 and it seems to at least run the minute you clicked the shortcut/executable
<HazRPG> so at least it's a fast hog now :P
<shauno> I've not used 4 much, as I can't seem to track down why it always resets geometry back to a screen I'd rather it wasn't on
<gord> firefox only using 12% mem here
<HazRPG> I don't know where to ask this, but here's as good a place as any I guess... but well, why is it that ubuntu applications don't update as fast as the developers who made said apps push it out
<shauno> they're not meant to
<HazRPG> I mean I understand ppa's are available to fix that... but well... is there not a way to do it without that?
<ali1234> yeah, install gentoo
<gord> HazRPG, we build a stable release, just taking developers latest crack leads to an unstable release
<shauno> if you google rolling release, you'll find plenty of distros that do track upstream as best they can
<gord> thats why there is a 6 month release cycle, so we can build stable releases and you still have pretty new software
<ali1234> "stable" doesn't mean "it doesn't crash" like most people mean
<oimon> HazRPG: in the olden days we didn't even have PPAs
<shauno> I still don't have ppa's.  I came for the predictable release cycle :)
<oimon> ali1234: too right. RHEL6 only contains KDE4.3, which is far more buggy than 4.6
<ali1234> it means any security fixes will be backported to the current version but not new features
<HazRPG> oimon: you make it sound like I'm knew to ubuntu :P
<shauno> HazRPG: the basic theory is you grab whatever's new and shiny, but within the realms of supportable.  and then spend most the release cycle polishing it up until it's ready for release day
<shauno> instead of grabbing whatever's newest a week before release, and hoping you don't get fired for it
<ali1234> the result of this is that the packages are about 6 months to 1 year behind in terms of features
<oimon> and there used to be a hideous app called automatix that everyone used to "do an ubuntu mint" after install. however it was discovered that when you upgrade to the next release it completely screws up your system. we've come a long way since then
 * gord shudders at the name
<oimon> now it's called ubuntu tweak :P
<HazRPG> oimon: heh I remember those days, I hated that application >_<
<gord> also you may have set off many peoples old notifys ;)
<shauno> yeah.  6-12 months old, but in a state where the platform guys believe they can support it going forward
<ali1234> if you want to break your system with bleeding edge packages might as well just install gentoo
<oimon> i need to keep a tomboy note of all the gconftool tweak i need instead of installing ubuntu tweak
<ali1234> or maybe arch is more popular now, i dunno
<shauno> gentoo's too crazy.  debian sid can be fun tho :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: never been a fan of gentoo... mainly because I found it too cumbersome, and a pain to install
<gord> i live on the the latest ubuntu's - sometimes its almost like a rolling release :( not fun
<ali1234> the big problem with gentoo is... they never fix bugs in anything, they just upgrade to the new version with new bugs
<ali1234> at leas that was the problem when i stopped using it
<MartijnVdS> not that Debian is much better, after release
<MartijnVdS> or Ubuntu for that matter
<HazRPG> well, I guess all these points make sense... and well I did have my suspicions to similar as to why it was done on a ~6 month release cycle, just nice to actually have it confirmed :)
<BigRedS> I've had a mostly bug-free Debian existance, really
<shauno> I've always felt the two should meet in the middle
<shauno> have a core platform released on a sensible schedule, then desktop craziness rolling along on top
<HazRPG> shauno: it technically does with LTS
<BigRedS> shauno: so Debian Stable & Debian Testing?
<ali1234> well you could always install portage on top of lts server
<BigRedS> :)
<oimon> i have discovered a bug in rh6 that i suspect will continue for the whole 6.x release cycle. similar problems with rh5.x and an intel driver
<oimon> 3 yrs with the same killer bug
<shauno> oimon: I wish you'd call it rhel, because I remember 5.x from the 90s :)
<oimon> me too :P first one i used :)
<AlanBell> I was just thinking I have a rather dusty old rh6 book on my bookshelf
<HazRPG> shauno: why the el?
<oimon> bug in fedora13 = bug for whole rhel6.x series
<shauno> HazRPG: that's what it's called now
<HazRPG> red hat el?
<shauno> redhat is the company, redhat enterprise linux is the product
<AlanBell> so they reset the numbering system then?
<HazRPG> ah
<oimon> AlanBell: i went to the #redhat room on your advice the other day, you should take a look :) it's for the old school rh and still has 30 people in it
<shauno> I believe it got to redhat 9 and then split into fedora, rhel, and what not
<oimon> #rhel is where they hang out now. but i was more concerned about the 30 still in #redhat
<AlanBell> heh, didn't know that
<HazRPG> I thought it was just changed to 2 forks, red hat - paid, for businesses (and people who can afford it, etc), and fedora
<AlanBell> I only guessed at the channel name
<gord> so i just found out we are entering Blue in our eurovision entry this year, apprently its 1998
<oimon> called fedora "core" for a while
<shauno> HazRPG: kinda
<oimon> gord: blue, theb boy band, now man band?
<gord> indeed
<shauno> HazRPG: I believe the "plan" is that fedora's a playground where they get to beat up new toys, and rhel is the stable product they give to customers that want stability
<shauno> from our point of view, the fact that fedora is free turns out to be a bigger point
<HazRPG> shauno: I thought fedora was a community effort... a fork of red hat before they went corporate
<HazRPG> much like SuSE and openSuSE
<BigRedS> also, the idea is that Fedora feels more like a community project, RHEL like a polished 'enterprise' product
<BigRedS> and it's supposed to feel that way - Fedora's not trying to be a Centos
<shauno> fedora's still largely redhat's thing.  it's not meant to be a "shed The Man" fork
<HazRPG> shauno: see that's what I thought it was when I first heard about it about to split off
<HazRPG> reviews  back then just made it sound like the community wanted to keep it free and open (in the true sense of the word)
<oimon> the problem is that RHEL is often a fedora freeze - so the bugs get frozen too
<HazRPG> was about the same time I stopped using red hat... and looked elsewhere
<oimon> redhat bugzilla is where bugs never die
<HazRPG> for a while didn't have anything linux-based as my main machine because I was testing out the various different waters
<HazRPG> I did have DSL on a laptop at one point, just because it was a really really old laptop
<oimon> i still use RHEL/Centos a huge amount. it's a good server distro. although i have it on ~150-200 desktops too
<HazRPG> oimon: hmm... what is it you do exactly?
<shauno> HazRPG: I had bbc-lnx for my main distro for a while.  never again :)
<oimon> HazRPG: work in a university
<BigRedS> shauno: that sounds... interensting
<oimon> HazRPG: fortunately with users who like linux
<HazRPG> shauno: surely you mean lnx-bbc?
<HazRPG> oimon: nice
<BigRedS> oh. I was expecting a micro clone
<shauno> I swear it was the other way around.  'business card linux'
<HazRPG> oimon: the uni I was at seemed keep to spread the news about linux too... always good to see really :)
<HazRPG> keen* (not keep)
<oimon> HazRPG: it's amazing how fun computer can be when you don't have to deal with windows problems
<shauno> we passed over linux almost entirely at college.  installed rh5 on a desktop, got it on the network, called the job done and never touched it again
<oimon> HazRPG: however there are changes afoot...big bosses are calling for "Enterprise Solutions" - which means they want to pay someone loads of money for an oracle system that does half the things a php/mysql system does well
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, I remembered it as lnx-bbc... but then maybe I saw it after a possible name change :S
<oimon> shauno: what a missed opportunity :(
<shauno> HazRPG: their website seems to agree with you.  I just don't recall ever calling it that
<HazRPG> oimon: typical :/
<shauno> I used it for a while when I was using garnome as my main desktop.  building the rest of the OS with gar seemed like a good idea at the time :)
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, yeah we did that at college too - weirdly
<shauno> HazRPG: it was bizarre.  it came and went so fast that nothing really stuck with anyone
<shauno> "this is linux.  it can ping the network, see!  next week, moar turbopascal!"
<shauno> I don't recall it coming up in exams either.  I think someone was just trying to confuse us
 * oimon used solaris exclusively during his degree
<HazRPG> well when we were doing it I think we used RH5 or RH6... not sure which, but it was basically "and this is linux, everyone build a machine with these old parts (it was a hardware class just to point out)... and then we'll  be installing red hat onto them..."
<shauno> heh.  you didn't go to college in barrow did you?
<HazRPG> I asked him about it (the tutor), and he said the main reason was because the techies wouldn't let us use the college windows keys...
<HazRPG> shauno: nope, carlisle "tech" college
<shauno> that makes a worrying amount of sense :(
<HazRPG> cumbria folk ay!
<shauno> I ain't cumbria folk :)  I just spent 10 years passing thru
<HazRPG> ... you confuse! I wasn't saying you were cumbrian lol
<shauno> I ain't no farmer :p
<oimon> going to work in a wheelbarrow might beat the congestion charge though
<JamesTait> Oh, hi everyone! :D
<HazRPG> shauno: tell ya what, I'll give ya the keys to the combine, and we'll see ya drive it - THEN we shall see ;)
<HazRPG> JamesTait: hey dude :)
<shauno> I've never tried a combine.  I've crashed more than my fair share of jcb's tho
<HazRPG> that's a little worrying..
<shauno> (and terrified the life out of some poor yank by driving one on the "correct" side of the road)
<HazRPG> also, I've drove a tractor as a laugh before... because one of my mates from college lived on a farm (at the time)
 * oimon is going on holiday near "diggerland" http://www.diggerland.com/devon/
<shauno> I worked on a farm for a summer :)
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<shauno> smiley face purely in past tense.  it was hell.
<HazRPG> ah that makes sense
<HazRPG> ooo arrr ooo arrr
<screen-x> shauno: very hard work?
<shauno> a very strange farm.  the whole thing was set up as a tax write-off for a retired millionaire
<HazRPG> screen-x: didn't involve a computer was the problem ;)
<shauno> screen-x: I planted an orchard.  by hand.  they thought it was funny.
<screen-x> shauno: you planted an orchard for the lolz?
<shauno> for someone else's lolz
<HazRPG> screen-x: does sound like that doesn't it :P
<HazRPG> shauno: aren't all lolz for someone else's benefit?
<screen-x> shauno: seems like a strange reason to pay someone to plan an orchard
<shauno> I also crashed a ford f350, two horse trailers (empty), two jcb back-hoes, one "little kabota", and one golf cart
<oimon> hmm
<screen-x> shauno: are you sure you weren't filming for topgear?
<shauno> which taught me a lot about mending split-post fences :(
 * HazRPG has a vision of shauno in dungeries trying to fix a fence backwards
<oimon> just learned that facebook is only for over 13 year olds
<Hornet> heh
<screen-x> oimon: oh, I thought it was 16
<shauno> screen-x: we ran into a small issue where they simply didn't believe that I couldn't drive.  they all learn at school.
<HazRPG> oimon: \o/ free gold star
<oimon> i know a lot of under 10s that use it
<Hornet> tbh it should be taught at school imo
<Hornet> essential skill
<shauno> 13 is the cutoff for the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act
<HazRPG> oimon: pretty much, I only have it to keep in contact with idiots who are either a) hooked, b) old friends and family
<shauno> don't ask me how I know that :)
 * oimon has a big family
<oimon> tbh its nice to keep in touch with nephews etc, so long as perants police their use of it
<shauno> but googling COPPA will render plenty of info on why 13.
<diplo> I was an agricultural engineer for 5 years, spent beginning of my career on farms fixing equipment
<diplo> Pity it payed so badly otherwise I'd guess I'd still be doin git.
<HazRPG> shauno: oh was this in the states? (drivers ed.?)
<shauno> HazRPG: yeah  (hence terrifying people by driving on the correct side of the road)
<screen-x> http://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=underage
<shauno> just driving out and about, switching sides is a no-brainer, you automatically try to go with the flow.  when you're out in the middle of nowhere, it's up to muscle memory
<screen-x> diplo: what did they use distributed version control for on the farm?
<diplo> :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: I'm scared to click that link..
<HazRPG> shauno: well yeah
<screen-x> HazRPG: hmm, its just a form reporting profiles of people who are under 13
<directhex> i drove in france about a year after passing my test. was fine
<HazRPG> screen-x: I almost pulled him about that (ba-dum-tish)
<shauno> directhex: I found it fine when there's traffic.  when there's no traffic at all, I couldn't always promise I'd pull out of a T junction into the right lane
<HazRPG> directhex: as shauno said, easy to observe and go with the flow... harder when there's nothing about
<directhex> stick to the motorway :p
<shauno> gets a tad more funky when you're driving symmetrical vehicles too
<oimon> the software may be free but the mugs are pricey http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=828
<HazRPG> shauno: you know a vehicle that isn't symmetrical?
<shauno> HazRPG: sure.  most passenger vehicles put the driver on one side
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: left/right or top/bottom or front/back symmetrical? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I thought he was referring to the overall shape
<HazRPG> oimon: gotta make their cash somehow right?
<HazRPG> oimon: pens are a bargain though :)
<oimon> yeah :)
<HazRPG> oimon: I remember getting a stack of those for the office at one point :)
<screen-x> everytime someone talks about the canonical shop, it is essential that this is linked to http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
<HazRPG> screen-x: xD
<oimon> no way !
<oimon> never noticed that before
<HazRPG> screen-x: that product still... to this date... makes no sense to me
<screen-x> comedy ubuntu gear
<oimon> the meerkat tee is nice
<screen-x> someone should wear one to oggcamp (figure permitting)
<oimon> i got a kubuntu tshirt previously, because the ubuntu ones were lame at the time
<HazRPG> ah crud
<HazRPG> totally forgot to buy the meerkat tee
<HazRPG> now its out of stock (in medium)
<shauno> if I had to, I'd assume they made those for something in particular, and had to satisfy a minimum order.  otherwise.  wtf.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: buy the XXL, wear it as a dress
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... cos that's not disturbing at all!
<shauno> (that said, google's store also sell cycling gear. there may be some nerdocrati joke that I'm simply not privvy to)
<oimon> find it a bit odd that there's a womens' tee with launchpad written across the breast
<HazRPG> shauno: man-kini? Quite a common joke since borat for some obscure reason :/
<shauno> http://www.googlestore.com/Wearables/Classic+Men+s+Bib+Shorts+-+Rasta.axd
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: OK, buy the XXL longsleeve hoodie and wear it as a djellaba then
<bigcalm> I keep forgetting how to do this in MySQL: I have a few joins going on, but I need records from the 1st table returned even if there are no corrolating records in the joined tables
<HazRPG> seems the last 2 festivals I was at (last year and year  before) people were wearing borat man-kini's :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you go to the wrong festivals (or the right ones, depending on your preference)
<oimon> the regular polo shirt is nice too http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=648
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I'd only wear that if I worked for canonical and went to their office
<oimon> i have a redhat one like it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: if I think your talking about what I think you are... in egypt (and obviously the dialect to which I'm use to) its called a galabaya :)
<bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585296/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Mainly rock festivals...
<oimon> MartijnVdS: you're right though - if you wanted to get past security, it would be a good uniform
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (also djellabah, galabiya, jellÄb(a))
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: my friend got a face full of Amy Wh**ehouse >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: eww!
<HazRPG> note, censored on purpose because its note whitehouse
<HazRPG> not*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wine isn't family-unfriendly 8-)
<HazRPG> it is when the ** is "or"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it would be, yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ...also, that's a double-negative >_<
<HazRPG> lol
<bigcalm> LEFT OUTER JOIN!
<HazRPG> bigcalm: heh... was about to say
<shauno> I swear I can never find a working pen when I need one.  silly outdated tech :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Pen? Why would you need a pen if you have fingers & blood of your enemies?
<HazRPG> shauno: also the reason I bought a pack of ubuntu pens...
<shauno> I can't use ubuntu pens.  no 3d accell :p
<HazRPG> ...
<HazRPG> lol
 * MartijnVdS accelerates a pen in shauno's direction (through 3D space)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... how do you know so much about muslim attire and speech?
<bigcalm> HazRPG: but you didn't say quick enough :P
<shauno> random man strikes again!
<HazRPG> bigcalm: I was trying to keep up with all the conversations lol
 * HazRPG looks behind him
<bigcalm> Looks too busy for that this morning
<shauno> man I hate phone menus :(
<HazRPG> shauno: where!?
<shauno> in phones!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: People are paranoid... "men in djellaba talking on the phone on a train" have been the source of several bomb scares :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so I remembered from the news
<bigcalm> shauno: you want one button for each task, so no menu?
<shauno> not pressing anything no longer means "I don't have a dtmf phone, help!".  it means I wasn't paying attention and need to hear the options again.
<HazRPG> shauno: still confused...
<bigcalm> Oh, those menus
<shauno> instead, I call them over and over again, writing down a breadcrumb trail of the numbers as I go
<screen-x> bigcalm: something like left outer join
<bigcalm> screen-x: cheers, fixed :)
<screen-x> oops, I was scrolled up
<bigcalm> ~Living on the ceiling~
<bigcalm> I think that it's an Absolute 80s dot com kind of day!
<HazRPG> shauno: ... your special :) ...
<shauno> apparently I'm not, because I just found my way back to the start of the menu :(
 * shauno scratches out the last 3 numbers
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> shauno: what are you attempting to do?
<shauno> talk to my bank
<HazRPG> .................
<HazRPG> use a local number?
<HazRPG> google is my friend for things like that :)
<shauno> nah, the locals aren't very useful
<HazRPG> I hate 0800 numbers :/ or even 0845 numbers :/
<HazRPG> wait, your bank makes you press millions of buttons?
<HazRPG> I always feel like I'm on a gameshow whenever I get put onto a "phone menu" system
<ging> shauno: can't you find something online to generate the tones you need?
<HazRPG> ging: modem love :)
<HazRPG> I use to use my modem to prank call people when I was younger
<ging> says did you mean modern love ?
<HazRPG> (refers to previous comment)
<HazRPG> you know, I've been tempted to get this so many times: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=767
<shauno> ging: the tones are no problem.  following the depths of phone menus to try to get exactly the right person is a royal pain in the expletive tho
<HazRPG> shauno: mash 0 :)
<shauno> thing is, I'm at the other end of one of those at work.  I know how annoying it is to get someone who just mashed buttons and ended up with completely the wrong team
<ging> oh i thought you were strugling to get the tones
<popey> X3N: ubuntu-uk still OOMing
<shauno> no, their menu is just fail.  I ended up 19 options deep
<popey> morning all
<HazRPG> shauno: always works for me, along with say "stupid menu system!" repeatedly... eventually you'll get transferred to a person that'll transfer you to the right place :)
<shauno> HazRPG: that's why I don't do that.  most the time I can't transfer people to the right place.  half the time I have no idea what country / company the right place is in
<HazRPG> popey: Out Of Mana?
<popey> Memory
<shauno> silly mage.
<HazRPG> popey: morning :)
<HazRPG> shauno: what, I like fire...
<HazRPG> shauno: and magic...
<shauno> get a warlock then. mages are frost or go home now
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, but there will be an option at the start that says "or to be transferred to someone who can help..."
<HazRPG> shauno: I would if I still played?
<shauno> yeah, that's broken too :)
<HazRPG> shauno: what bank? And with which number are you calling? And what are you wanting to achieve?
<HazRPG> My google foo might help get you the combinations :)
<shauno> here's my number one pet hate with phone menus.  on the weekends, support calls for big customers get routed thru to us (if they're from anywhere within emea / anz / nam / asean).
<shauno> if people phone the public number instead of the corporate number, and key in the extension number for MIS, they actually key in the menu sequence to get to us
<HazRPG> heh seriously?
<shauno> so almost every weekend we get calls from dubai looking for blackberry support. this confuses them more than us.
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, that's a cultural thing though... they're telephone systems all use extensions instead of phone menu's
<shauno> and they show up for work on weekends.
<HazRPG> the only thing (as far as I know) that has a phone menu is mobile phone pay-as-you-go networks
<HazRPG> shauno: weekends is Thurs, Fri ;)
<HazRPG> Sat is the start of the week
<shauno> I know their menus are odd, because if I need to transfer anything to dubai, we have to pick a different phone number for english or arabic
<shauno> in theUS, it's just a different menu option for english/spanish
<shauno> (and for asean, it doesn't matter because you can guarantee the person you get thru to won't speak english anyway)
<shauno> this is why I hate phone menus.  I bear the scars of nortel.
<HazRPG> most companies in saudi and the U.A.E. tend to either be, a) One number for both, with a number combination for either (then usually asks for an extension number or 0 for operator), or b) different numbers as you said
<shauno> on the other hand, I adore australians
<HazRPG> but yeah, weekends vary between arabian countries
<shauno> they give us a list of cellphone numbers and tell us to call thru them all in order until we find someone sober enough to take it :)
<HazRPG> in Saudi its Thurs & Friday (Friday is the holy day, much like our Sunday)... in Egypt I think its Friday & Saturday... and U.A.E. is the same as saudi I think - but depends on the companies background
<shauno> I've a feeling israel is friday & saturday too
<HazRPG> usually centred around the Friday, being the day of rest n all
<shauno> (in other news, iraq doesn't have weekends)
<ali1234> --0
<ali1234> ++
<directhex> it's friday, friday, the day after thursday?
<shauno> anyway, I'm glad I wrote down my breadcrumbs, because I've got to call back.   buahaha.  I won.
<HazRPG> shauno: my dad only gets Friday off in Saudi... and a half-day on Thurs (but it's a longer shift, it's a 8am-6pm... as opposed to his normal 9am-2pm, then 5pm-9pm)
 * oimon might have to find another job :(
<HazRPG> oimon: why?
<oimon> just received news of the impending IT strategy handing down by our fascist dictators
<screen-x> shauno: the americans seem to think that iraq have friday-saturday as the weekend http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1144.html
<screen-x> oimon: all opensource from now on?
<oimon> they are going to completely destroy the excellent open source infrastructure to replace with micrsoft and oracle products
<shauno> screen-x: I've never had a call from iraq that was from an iraqi.  seems most the "visitors" work to a different timescale
<screen-x> oimon: very expensive comfortable chairs for all?
<popey> erk
<popey> oimon: you work at a uni?
<screen-x> oimon: thats not sounds so good :(
<oimon> yes
<popey> :(
<oimon> decisions have been made without consideration for the facts
<screen-x> oimon: are they building an extension to house all the extra windows servers you will need?
<oimon> and some numpty has looked at a list of top sellng apps and decided thats what we need
<oimon> screen-x: yes, although it will get very hot as they will be blade servers
<screen-x> sounds like an expensive project
<oimon> yes
<oimon> all to reduce what we have now to dust
<screen-x> Aren't universities supposed to be strapped for cash these days?
<HazRPG> oimon: ouch...
 * oimon is sad
<seeker> Linux is great, but when it takes2 hours to change a graphics card I wonder why I bother
<jpds> seeker: Try opening your box faster.
<seeker> jpds: :P physical swap took 30 seconds
<popey> i wonder why seeker bothers too
<seeker> Mainly because I can't find anything to replace mythtv with
<oimon> apparently iptables offers better features than other firewalls but should not be used because it is difficult to support. we are surrounded by bearded linux gurus!
<jpds> oimon: Don't you have some formal compliant channel you can bounce this too?
 * screen-x wonders if seeker and cking have a common mission
<cking> eh?
<screen-x> cking: I read your nick as "seeking",  so I wondered if you were looking for the same thing as seeker..
<oimon> jpds: it's all coming right from the top.
<DJones> screen-x: I always think helicopter when is see cking's nick
<cking> ah, cking is just short for colin king ;-)
<cking> but I am always seeking ways to fix things
<screen-x> :)
<daubers> Hmmm.... I have what could be a long meeting on the 31st now. Might need someone to raise some meeting points for me
<oimon> where's a good place to buy solid state drives?
<directhex> i just use scan.co.uk for things
<directhex> although i have an SSD in my amazon wishlist, for kind passers-by
<oimon> directhex: i was just looking on scan and insight
<oimon> directhex: which one's on your list?
<directhex> an ocz vertex
<directhex> for price reasons. intel drives are best, but cost more
<screen-x> stupid flash question, why doesn't performance scale linearly with capacity? Is this because of the controllers limitations?
<directhex> screen-x, depends on the type of flash used
<directhex> screen-x, thers's MLC and SLC
<directhex> SLC would scale with capacity, controller allowing
<screen-x> I was looking at the ocz vertex 90gb and 120gb have the same IOPS and read/write speeds. But they are MLC.
 * oimon notices that capacities of SSD are weirdly numbered
<screen-x> howso oimon?
<directhex> screen-x, you can't afford SLC.
<screen-x> heh intel's 510 series SSDs have an MTBF of ~130 years, that should be enough to pursuade coporations to buy them.
<popey> Ng: pls to be looking at bug 742380
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 742380 in x11-xkb-utils (Ubuntu) "Error activating xkb configuration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742380
<popey> also Daviey
<popey> and maybe Laney too :)
 * Daviey opens
<Daviey> popey, logon -> then change keyboard prefs?  or change login prefs and re-login?
<popey> the thing I am trying to get fixed is the ~` key on my keyboard does <>
 * daubers wonders where his eval SSDs have got to
<daubers> Still not turned up :(
<Daviey> popey, i have a hack for that :)
<popey> i get it when i login
<popey> i dont want a hack :)
<Daviey> popey, xmodmap
<popey> I want it fixed
<popey> there is a macbook pro keyboard layout in the keyboard preferences, it should work damnit
<Daviey> aye... my main reasons for having the hack is because i want a slightly different layout to what is printed on the keyboard
<Daviey> but yes, it should work
<shauno> popey: does it specify it's an en_GB mbp layout?
<shauno> (just curious.  while the mac layout is more USian than the pc-gb layout, it's not the same as the US mac layout)
<popey> there are two options
<popey> macbook pro and macbook pro intl
<shauno> ah, ok.  we should be intl
<Daviey> popey, gonna restart X to see.
<popey> shauno: same issue occurs
<shauno> popey: file a bug :p
<shauno> I might actually have a play with that one.  new laptop coming, so I'll have a chance to be silly with this one
 * popey points shauno to the last 5 minutes
<shauno> aw, there goes my shot at being funny :(
<shauno> 7,1 is the same layout as mine tho, that's one I could bash out
<Daviey> popey, yup.. same issue
<ubuntuuk-planet> [James Tait] Hacking on txamqp for fun and profit - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/03/25/hacking-on-txamqp-for-fun-and-profit/
<shauno> or rather, it's the same layout mine should be :/
<s-fox> Hello
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/layout.jpg   ;)
<screen-x> morning shauno
<Daviey> popey, I didn't see the error activating the mac layout... but i already had it as an option
<Daviey> i think i'd need to delete it and re-add it
<Daviey> popey, so we have the international layout?
<shauno> I believe so.  macbook US has no key between Lshift and Z
<shauno> if the key left of 1 is backtick, you've got the US variant.  otherwise is international
<popey> Daviey: i have literally no idea :)
<popey> we have the super useful key next to 1
<shauno> I wondered what that symbol was.
<shauno> Â§uperuseful!
<popey> i have never used either of them
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> Â¬ << what is this symbol?
 * popey tickles davmor2 
<screen-x> oimon: not?
<shauno> oimon: I've only ever used that as a line continuation
<jpds> oimon: sudo apt-get install unicode; unicode Â¬
 * davmor2 not being ticklish just stares at popey
<screen-x> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols
 * oimon has a maths degree :P
<screen-x> oimon: apologies
<oimon> should have remembered that.
<Daviey> popey, I tried to guess looking at the keyboard map... and both seem inaccurate :)
<davmor2> popey: you got uplink and darwinia installed on your ubuntu box yet?
<oimon> screen-x: it's been a while since i though of NOT being anything other than !=
<Daviey> popey, i made the super useful key map to  #.. as i actually use it :)
<popey> davmor2: i have had them for years
<oimon> we create really evil pwgen passwords for people.
<davmor2> popey: :P You would :)#
<oimon> however i realsed that backtick ` doesn't exist on some keyboards
<popey> i paid for it a while ago
<screen-x> oimon: is that to ensure that post-it notes are used?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> they are temporary wifi passwords for visitors
<screen-x> ah
<davmor2> popey: I know,  but really real games in USC games that real people might of heard of :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<oimon> that game subversion (by the darwinia people) is still being written :S
<popey> oh, they're in the store davmor2 ?
<davmor2> popey: Oh yes, along with crossover office demo
<directhex> oimon, they take their time
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning :)
<popey> neato
<gord> i'v never seen anything in the ubuntu for purchase thing =\ stupid non released versions
<popey> hmmm
<popey> i cant actually see how to get to USC in unity
<popey> also "Find ...rnet Apps" looks rubbish
<gord> known
<popey> cool
<popey> where is USC?
<oimon> one for popey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMBGLMtdFE&feature=player_embedded
<gord> just type software centre?
<popey> i want an icon
<gord> its in your launcher by default iirc
<popey> i dont want to have to type everything
<popey> not in my launcher
<gord> popey, i used the combo box to change to system, its right there in the system applications
<gord> or you can just click the system indicator thingy to go to the control centre
<popey> oh, i thought you meant in my launcher in the left
<popey> system indicator!?
<gord> well on new installs i think its in the left launcher (springboard?) by default
<gord> popey, what you click to turn off the computer
<popey> springboard!?
<popey> can you seriously stop changing the name of stuff!
<gord> don't blame me :(
<popey> the shutdown thing has no store link
<davmor2> popey: not for natty yet only maverick
<gord> popey, system settings
<popey> ok, in that
<popey> ahhhh
<popey> thank you
<popey> seems like a duff place to put it
<popey> ooooo i have 6 new recommendations
<gord> well you can just use the places (lenses now!) to get to basically the same thing
<gord> just open the applications place (lens) and use the drop down box to select system
<popey> doesnt show up in system
<popey> oh, "11 more results"
<popey> thats 5 clicks to get to USC
<gord> well like i said, its in the launcher by default on install
<popey> interesting, wonder why it isnt for me
<popey> because I upgraded?
<gord> maybe - i think it ports old favourites from unity 10.10 so if you had a few of those laying about
 * popey adds it to comply with THEY WHO MUST BE OBEYED
<popey> ahhh
<popey> ok, so onto the fun that is "6 new recommendations"
<popey> Dolphin - kde file manager - no thank you, i have a file manager
<gord> my recommendations are just things i had installed once...
<popey> File Manager - uh, I have one
<popey> Amarok and Amarok
<Daviey> gord, Stop wasting time on this... and get 2d unity working kkthnxbye.
<popey> :)
<gord> Daviey, i don't work on 2d unity kkthnxbye :P
 * popey cuddles gord 
<Daviey> gord, rethink your life, and priorities.
<Daviey> Recently, at an airport.. after a really tiring week... A Debian Developer walked up to me, and asked me "Why do you exist?"
<Daviey> What sort of answer can you possibly give to that?
<popey> "to make your stuff work"
<gord> the featured apps in usc is pretty good, wish it was more like the android market visually though, but the selection is good
<Daviey> popey, I wasn't quite sure if he was talking about me personally, or Ubuntu :)
<X3N> does osc start up in a timely fashion yet?
<gord> fast enough for me, but my machine isn't a good testbed
<X3N> takes 9 seconds on my i5
<popey> by way of comparison the app store on ipad takes ~10 seconds
<popey> and the app store on my osx takes about 8
<screen-x> software centre takes less then a second to open here :D (10.04)
<oimon> how can you choose unity 2d/3d/classic if you have no login password enabled?
<Daviey> X3N, I just tried it - and exited out as soon as the window opened... took real	0m12.335s
<popey> oimon: logout
<gord> popey, really? wow - oh wait it takes forever on android too :D
<popey> heh
<popey> actually it went directly to an app i bought
<popey> lemme kill it and start again
<X3N> takes 7 seconds on my android
<oimon> popey: logout?
<gord> my phone is getting kinda old and underpowered for android - i keep seeing these fancy "threee deee" games
<ali1234> osc? the obs client?
<X3N> but it was probably pull data over 4g
<gord> never gonna get those to run
<popey> yeah, 9-10 seconds
<oimon> the session chooser only appears when u ask for password
<popey> over wifi
 * screen-x installs a stopwatch from software centre to time ios appstore launch
<X3N> ali1234: i meant usc
<Daviey> X3N, wow, took over 15 Mississippi's on my android.
<X3N> osc on the mind :|
<ali1234> oh
<popey> Obunto!
<Daviey> i'm sure it's not normally that slow.
<hoover> hi folks
<ali1234> well it could be worse, it could be hildon-application-manager
<gord> honestly... i don't use the android market anymore. just go to http://market.android.com - its nicer
<screen-x> 26 seconds to load app store app (ios4, iphone 3g)
<popey> wheee, I'm on a roll today
 * popey files another bug
<Daviey> gord, wow, i did not know you could install from the webui
<popey> bug 742398
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 742398 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Missing icon for bluetooth applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742398
<ali1234> ham takes literally 10 minutes to load up
<gord> Daviey, yeah its really nice :)
<ali1234> on n900
<ali1234> and it gets slower as the maemo repos get bigger
<gord> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-25-amazon-accused-of-3ds-delivery-failure :(
<Daviey> gord, i am massively impressed.
<oimon> USC, and ubuntuone control centre are some of the nicest looking apps around
<gord> Daviey, people already taking advantage of it, you can install an app on your phone when you lose it, then that app will make a noise :)
<Daviey> hah!  That is neat..
<screen-x> gord: you can get the app to start once it's been installed?
<MartijnVdS> gord: nice thing about Android: you can remote-install apps through market.android.com :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: autostarting services on cloud-to-device message, easy
<gord> screen-x, seems so, applications that are like services
<gord> its all jabber based so you can do stuff remotely
<Gary> hey everyone, whatyadoin'
<DJones> welcome back Gary You seem you have been missing for ages
<Gary> yeah, RL gets int he way eh
<DJones> Heh
 * popey tickles Gary till he pukes
<gord> anyone want two months of love film for free? http://lovefilm.com/share T8N4FM9HB
<Nafallo> I dont believe in free things
<hoover> best things in life are free, anyway ;-)
<shauno> I don't believe in free things that don't deliver to RoI ;)
<gord> lovefilm is pretty good, i use it all the time to stream movies
 * Gary licks popey 
<DJones> ewww
<oimon> get a room!
<Nafallo> this is a room :-)
<directhex> it's a channel
<directhex> also, it's Nafallo!
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> hi directhex
<Gary> oimon: it was only a lick, I'm sure I could do worse
<oimon> the other week we had 170 people in here...what happened
<DJones> oimon: Clones :)
<DJones> Hows things Gary, I guess you've been busy
<Gary> DJones: yes, been very busy, we've moved a server room and refurbished the building
<brobostigon> and i am really sorry about lastnight, i was reallt aggitated. my apologies.
<DJones> Gary: Ouch, must have quite time consuming & a lot of questions, where does this cable go?
<Gary> DJones: yeah, esp as the network had grown organically (read "mess") for the last fifteen odd years, there was still coax networking cable sitting about, along with the worst structured cabling ever
<Gary> we found a few servers under the caling spaggetti
<DJones> Heh, servers you didn't know about?
<BigRedS> heh. we had to do that once when we ran another 20 cat5 lines and the ceiling collapsed :)
<DJones> Or just servers you could ping & knew existed but didn't know the location
<Gary> BigRedS: we pulled out a full sized skip full of compressed cabling
<Gary> (ie we compressed it/bundled it up neatly before putting it in the skip, it still filled it)
<oimon> Gary: where do u work?
<Gary> oimon: a small marketing company in essex
<Daviey> Gary looks after the IT equipment for hell..  He reports directly to the devil. ;)
<oimon> i still come across weird coax cabling that uses vampire connectors
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_tap
<Gary> Daviey: no no, I left hell in Nottingham, I'm just in hells backyard now
<oimon> the yellow cable still exists in some offices and i tell staff never to touch them or they might lose their net connection ;)
<Gary> OMG, woman just walked past with the brightest red dyed hair ever!
<oimon> well you are in essex Gary
<Gary> true
 * Gary tickles Davieywavey
<DJones> Gary: She must have long leg, she stands outside my office in poynton having a smoke a few times a day
<Gary> we have windows now!  (IT used to be hidden in the dark, next to a badly accousticly insulated server room
<Daviey> Gary, heh
<Daviey> Gary, Do you still have your red hot poker?
<Gary> only for you Daviey
<Daviey> !ohmy > Gary
<Gary> when are you going to leave your (lovely) missus and be mine?
 * Gary hides
 * oimon notes the tone of the room has dropped somewhat
<Gary> yeah, sorry, I'll get back to work :'(
<Daviey> Gary, I'll ask her for a good time!
 * czajkowski hugs Gary and goes back to hiding 
<oimon> hmm "Users of the ad-supported version of Spotify were hit by a malware-based attack on Thursday"
<popey> nice
<popey> and
<popey> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<ali1234> oimon: link pls
<oimon> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/
<oimon> it's friday lunchtime, so it must be el reg
<oimon> 5 mins into lunch and i've already reported a fresh natty bug
<popey> oimon: bug no?
<oimon> well it's a crash actually :P
<oimon> 742427
<popey> bug 742427
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 742427 could not be found
<popey> private bug?
 * popey larts launchpad devs
<oimon> for the mo i assume until apport retracing has done it's dirty work
<popey> yeah
<oimon> probably 100 other dupes that are private too ;)
<hoover> have a nice weekend all
<oimon> i told tmobile they provide a poor data & voice signal for the entirety of my train journey. thought they might like to know.  it turns out they weren't interested
<brobostigon> :(
<Ng> popey: hrm (re that bug), I haven't natty'd yet
<oimon> i thought tube line/national rail interchanges might be a good place to provide a phone signal
<czajkowski> popey: did you want something in natty verified ?
<HazRPG> oimon: mobile phone companies never seem to like it when I say they have a black spot for signal :/
<davmor2> popey: it's technically an issue with the way that apport reports it,  Apport by default assumes you were doing something private and until the retrace is done leaves the bug in private mode, making it public once it knows there is no highly secure data on it iirc
<popey> no davmor2 its a launchpad issue
<HazRPG> normally I wouldn't bother, but that black spot just so happens to be my house, and it worked fine when I first went with them :/
<popey> i have discussed this at length with Robert Collins
<oimon> HazRPG: it's strange, because as a service provider, i'd like to know  - it potentially affects revenue generation.
<davmor2> popey: interesting :)
<popey> the "issue" being that the bot can't tell that it's a private bug or a non-existent bug
<popey> because launchpad reports back that private bugs do not exist
<popey> so that lp doesn't reveal details that should be secure
<popey> the bots _used_ to report "Private bug" which is fine
<davmor2> popey: I see
<oimon> HazRPG: the blackspot i am thinking of caters for many hundreds of people waiting around for 30 mins at any point in the day from 7am-12pm
<popey> I am unhappy that private bugs are reported as "non existent"
<davmor2> talking at cross purposes
<czajkowski> hmm waht ever way things are behaving I cant open another terminal as when I click on terminal I get close terminal, but no way to open more or even a tab
<popey> yes :)
<gord> czajkowski, unity?
<popey> czajkowski: middle click
<oimon> middle click
<oimon> :P
<czajkowski> gord: yes
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> popey: touch pad on the laptop no mouse
<popey> yes
<HazRPG> oimon: heh, typical :P
<popey> 3 fingers?
<popey> or is it a rubbish laptop?
<czajkowski> oh you rock
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<popey> :D
 * czajkowski kicks unity 
<gord> also ctrl+shift+n in gnome terminal i think
<hamitron> :)
 * czajkowski removes all cake from gord as he's the closest one around me 
<HazRPG> oimon: still haven't managed to get anywhere with 3 for mine though... I'm wanting my PAC (MAC?) code so that I can move it, apparently I have to wait for it :/
<Myrtti> new trousers AND jeans â¥ H&M mail order, I love you
<popey> \o/ H&M
<gord> or just alt+f2 and type "terminal"
<davmor2> czajkowski: or you could go file new window on global menu :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: it wont let me
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> gord: that fails
<gord> popey, let it load
<popey> i have
<popey> it has returned one result
<popey> "terminal"
<oimon> HazRPG: i'm supposed to have network sharing with orange enabled. it's strange that there's never any coverage where t-mob don't cover - unless they all slap their antennas on the same building?
<gord> eh i'm being think, alt+f2 is the run dialog so yeah gnome-terminal
<gord> lemmealone :(
<popey> :D
 * popey tickles gord 
<popey> er
<popey> ALT+F2, gnome-terminal
<popey> click it
<popey> where do you get dumped?
 * popey gets put in /
<popey> this seems sub-optimal to me
<davmor2> czajkowski: why could you do Ctrl+shift+t  for a new tab or did it need to be a completely fresh terminal?
<HazRPG> Myrtti: \o/
<popey> ew tabs in terminal windows should die in a fire
<oimon> ctrl-shift-n for new terminal too
<czajkowski> I dont like tabs in terminals
<gord> popey, known bug
<czajkowski> I admin I am slightly odd ok. it';s just me
<popey> ta gord
<gord> whoever asked for tabbed terminals should of been shot long ago
<HazRPG> oimon: wouldn't shock me
<davmor2> czajkowski: it would of solved you're temporary issue though :P
<shauno> I don't mind tabs, I just don't want to see them.  I like my terminal chromeless.
 * oimon used to use tabs in konsole, but never gnome-terminal
 * oimon also remembers he used to use yakauake a lot
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever wanted a tabbed terminal
<gord> i tend to end up just using my second monitor for a wall of terminator terminals, works nicely
<shauno> if I need to do something local, I find it easier to pop open a tab, instead of having a remote screen nested in a local screen
<shauno> I just don't like the tab bar to be visible
<shauno> (or the scrollbar, or the menubar .. but gnome-terminal lets you turn those off :)
<HazRPG> I don't mind the tabbed terminals so much, its nice to have it there if you ever need them
<HazRPG> having two screens though, I tend to just cake them with terminals though
<BigRedS> I generally have terminator, and then some large number of xterms that I've run 'host' or somethign in and then alt-tabbed away from
<HazRPG> plus mod4+T ftw!
<popey> UH-OH!
<popey> Dominos Pizza now accepts paypal!
 * screen-x freezes popey's paypal assets
<oimon> popey: from the command line?
<gord> for the good of the nation, pizza places should not do online ordering. i don't even like pizza hut but i sometimes get it if i'm working late :(
<popey> oimon: hmm?
<shauno> you've not seen that?
<oimon> http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/06/09/order-dominos-pizza-via-command-line/
<popey> haha
<gord> iirc you could order pizza from world of warcraft. maybe ubuntu should come with something like that by default
<gord> could even make the ubuntu logo out of pizza
<oimon> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/confidentiality_of_census_data_not_guaranteed
<oimon> sorry for multiple reg links in one day, but all the good articles get saved till friday
<czajkowski> aye which have been on twitter a lot of the day :)
<oimon> me needs to widen his twitter usage
<oimon> didn't realise there was useful stuff on it :P
<AlanBell> gord: I have thought about making such a pizza
<gord> would prefer a cake if people are making ubuntu based confectionaries
<shauno> I believe pizza to be the sensible option.  covers more food groups :)
 * brobostigon has ginger beer, :)
<brobostigon> interesting idea.
<oimon> doesn't look too appetizing http://technology.desktopnexus.com/get/349660
<shauno> :(  someone didn't enable Universe
<DJones> brobostigon: I've started getting a taste for Crabbies alcoholic ginger ale/beer
<brobostigon> DJones: i like aswell, it nice isnt it.
<DJones> brobostigon: Yes, leaves a slight bruning feeling in your mouth
<brobostigon> DJones: bruning?
<DJones> burning
<brobostigon> oh, alittle,
<brobostigon> yes.
<oimon> i have a dandelion and burdock waiting for me in the fridge
<Myrtti> aw damnit
<Myrtti> I forgot my d&b sodastreamer concentrate at home :-(
<screen-x> sodastream, oldschool :)
<brobostigon> :(
<oimon> wonder if wifey fancies making me another tux cake again
<oimon> best cake ever
<AlanBell> o/ issyl0
 * daubers beats pyinotify with a stick
<brobostigon> got gpu lockup again, so gone back to vesa. :(
<bigcalm> Drum & Bass Sodastream? ;)
<moreati> popey: http://hackaday.com/2011/03/25/kinect-minecraft-trifecta/
<popey> moreati: wow
<davmor2> moreati: nice,  you post mincraft here and unity insults on #wolveslug :P
 * czajkowski prods davmor2 
<moreati> davmor2: i play to the crowd
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks love you too :P
<czajkowski> I'd not poke you in a long time, I felt it was over due
 * davmor2 whacks czajkowski with a rubber baseball bat
<czajkowski> I poke you and whack, hardly seems very fair!
<davmor2> czajkowski: it was a toy rubber baseball bat it's not like it hurt
<hamitron> czajkowski: you play any comp games?
<hamitron> specifically, rugby ones
<hamitron> or anyone else for that matter
 * AlanBell sends davmor2 to therapy to deal with his issues of violence
 * AlanBell arranges consecutive appointment for czajkowski 
<czajkowski> hamitron: nope I follow/adore rugby though
<shauno> I've not seen any rugby games.  I thought it wasn't "the done thing" to trivialize such a topic
<czajkowski> AlanBell: careful we;d meet and kill one another
<hamitron> czajkowski: that is why I thought you may have tried the games, if you were a gamer :)
 * davmor2 sends AlanBell to Wolverhampton then you'll understand the violence :D
<hamitron> shauno: there are a few, just not sure which to try
<hamitron> manager stuff and the other kind where you "control" the players
<AlanBell> davmor2: been there already, no plans to go again
<AlanBell> I am off to Milton Keynes area on Monday though
<AlanBell> only two hours until some people buy some consumer electronics gadget
<hamitron> what gadget?
<czajkowski> is that why popey is quiet, is he queuing :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: That's my point,  rubber baseball bat attacks aren't violent,  Machine pistols, shotgun and machete attacks they are violent :D
<shauno> I tried to get a new ipad.  3-4 weeks to ship online.  bugger that for a game of daisies
<Tommeh> Weird. Playing music gives a bit of crackling in the background - be it Flash, spotify (linux) or Rythmbox... To stop it, all I have to do is close the app, or open and close the sound preferences dialogue 0_o
<gord> i forget what it was that was much different in the ipad 2. did it have a bigger resolution or something?
<shauno> mostly just the camera.  I swore off the first one until I could skype on it
<hamitron> the version number is twice as big
<hamitron> therefore better
<AlanBell> davmor2: I just decided not to say what I was going to say about a rubber baseball bat
<hamitron> ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: I didn't want to hurt czajkowski  the aim is too annoy :)
<czajkowski> we love one another really
<AlanBell> a worthy aim indeed
<czajkowski> just for folks who dont know us ;)
<AlanBell> on the subject of violence, here is some proprietary software vendors showing us how to behave professionally http://bcgurus.com/_webapp_1414611/Business_Catalyst_Partners_Take_Aim_at_Joomla_Drupal_and_WordPress
<AlanBell> and a fitting response http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljNZM5Yx0GM
<screen-x> AlanBell: video has been taken down :(
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> most of it is in the response anyway
<hamitron> is 68MB/s good for a flash drive?
<screen-x> ah yes, just watching
<hamitron> I get mixed up with bits and bytes
<AlanBell> gord: I believe the device itself is thinner and lighter and has slightly better graphics chip or something
<AlanBell> gord: fundamentally the big feature is that at 6PM if you still have the old one then everyone will know that you are the type of person that still has the old one
<BigRedS> ipad?
<BigRedS> Also, AlanBell that first video is down, but does look interesting
<popey> Also, people using iPads are getting on with using iPads and not asking "What's the best Android tablet to buy"
<Myrtti> mmmm cough medicine
<hamitron> that is the best thing about apple imo
<hamitron> no hassle, you just get THE product
<popey> yeah, but it's evil closed source
<popey> oh, hang on
<popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/
<BigRedS> yeah, the hoops I was jumpingh through last night to unbreak my android phone have put me off getting another
<BigRedS> but there's nothing else, really to go for
<popey> http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/android_tablets/
<hamitron> tbh, all this complication and lock down is just causing me to lose interest in technology as a whole
<popey> lots of options
<hamitron> they will end up killing it
<popey> "it"?
<popey> and "they" :)
<shauno> open source on mobile platforms strikes me as mostly moot point, until they stop leaving the carrier with the last word
<hamitron> the makers will kill the interest of enthusiasts
<hamitron> (spelling)
<BigRedS> that's the thing. The hoops I was jumping through were on the way to as close to stock android as I could get
<gord> AlanBell, ah right the graphics chip and thinner, i remember now - interesting that they didn't go for more though
<hamitron> what we need is some open hardware
<popey> hahahahaah
<popey> yeah, that went well for openmoko
<BigRedS> heh. that's been tried
<BigRedS> hardware is so much more expensive than software
<AlanBell> how is pandora going?
<shauno> the hardware's really not the problem so much atm.  you still have the carrier telling you what you're allowed to do with it
<oimon> BigRedS: which phone do u have
<screen-x> shauno: I get the impression HTC wouldn't sign the firmware unless pressured.
<hamitron> suppose the carriers need to make sure it isn't used too much
<shauno> I still haven't figured out how O2 manage to bill me separately for tethered data :/
<BigRedS> oimon: Galaxy S
<screen-x> shauno: they do?
<shauno> they do here  (o2.ie and o2 are different companies, so I've no idea how well it translates)
<screen-x> shauno: do they tell you how many MB of each you've used per month?
<shauno> oh, O2 uk is telefonica too .. I thought it was BT  (kinda outta date :)
<popey> AlanBell: dunno how many they have sold, but I'd guess in the high hundreds or low thousands
<shauno> screen-x: yes
<popey> aim is 3300 by april
<screen-x> shauno: presumably you've tried ssh dynamic proxy and vpn?
<hamitron> surely if the software and hardware did what was wanted, they couldn't tell?
<shauno> screen-x: just vpn
<AlanBell> popey: looking at the pandora, I think I would take the iPad :)
<shauno> that the openpandora one?  the little folding game thingie that managed to stuff a whole keypad in there?
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> shauno: thats the one
<diplo> We we're talking about this at work the other day, we we're wondering if they were analysing headers etc
<diplo> to work out what was using the traffic
<fvahid> hi evryone
<AlanBell> hi fvahid
<shauno> I couldn't figure out what pandora did that my gp2x doesn't, so didn't look too much further at it
<hamitron> is the gp2x good?
<hamitron> I was always tempted
<Myrtti> I still think MeeGo might end up being kick-ass awesome
<Myrtti> for phones
<shauno> it's not that bad, but the amiga emulator pushes it a bit
<fvahid> I was one question
<shauno> mine's out of commission atm because they decided to use some strange usb cable that I'm having difficulty locating
<fvahid> I was one question about squid please help me firends
<oimon> motorola could always buy meego :P
<screen-x> fvahid: hi, ask your question, someone will answer if they can help
<Myrtti> fvahid: "either flash fry it or cook it for a very long time so that the proteins don't go all rubbery"
<Myrtti> ;-)
<hamitron> isn't meego open source?
<screen-x> Myrtti: I was considering that pun, but didn't know enough about cooking it ;-)
<shauno> hamitron: the d-pad is a bit flaky.  I think they put it just too close to the edge of the device.  it's physically sound, but that one edge key just doesn't feel right.  all in all, I'm not sure I'd buy it again, but I'd be game for something very similar
<oimon> hamitron: i mean , buy all the devs etc
<Myrtti> hamitron: yup
<Myrtti> screen-x: I just read about proteins and how to cook squid yesterday from my lovely "Cooking for Geeks"- book :-P
<hamitron> if these devices acted as a phone, I'd be bought
<Myrtti> oimon: buy all the devs... er. from whom...? it's a Linux Foundation project, majorly backed by Intel and formerly Nokia, and other companies that still are working on it
<AlanBell> fvahid: just ask in the channel, don't worry about interrupting any other rambling going on
<hamitron> are there still going to be many meego devices since microsoft pulled nokia?
<AlanBell> fvahid: in the channel
<hamitron> that could be a hurdle
<Myrtti> hamitron: depends on the platform, not sure about how many there's going to be as phones
<popey> AlanBell: one apparently
<popey> anyone know of any apps in the USC that have reviews?
<hamitron> I love toys, but don't like having to carry too many with so few pockets
<popey> hamitron: you need a barbour jacket
 * popey points to AlanBell who carries an OLPC in his pocket
<Myrtti> popey: I just saw one the other day...
<hamitron> hehe
<Myrtti> might have been docky
<hamitron> man if that pandora took a sim, and let me use it as a phone with a headset.....
<hamitron> :-o
<popey> Myrtti: any chance you can confirm that?
<Myrtti> I just realised I've got vnc to the computer
<Myrtti> so checking
<popey> I have USC open and looking at Docky
<popey> but it says "Checking for reviews..."
<oimon> popey - tombot
<oimon> tomboy
<popey> i suspect I know what this is
<s-fox> Good afternoon.
<popey> I am behind a proxy server
<oimon> Myrtti: yep, docky has 2 reviews
<popey> right, thanks
<fvahid> exec lsb_release -a
 * popey files a bug
<Myrtti> popey: 7zip, ArchiveManager...
<popey> thank you
<Myrtti> even calculator :-/
<Myrtti> I always end up installing qalculate because gnome one is borderlining useless in my use
 * brobostigon returns 
 * popey files bug 742564
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 742564 in software-center (Ubuntu) "reviews not visible behind a proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742564
<popey> thanks
<gord> popey, did you just thank the bot?
<popey> no, Myrtti and oimon
<screen-x> Am I supposed to be able to see/contribute reviews in 10.04?
<gord> oh okay then ;)
<moreati> screen-x: I don't think so, it's an 11.04 thing
<screen-x> ok
<oimon> popey: that's weird - why would the proxy block it? is it making a request on port 80?
<oimon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews#when%20there%20is%20no%20Internet%20connection
<diplo> oimon, Our proxy ran on port 3128
<diplo> So if USC doesn't pick up the proxy details it wouldn't go through
<oimon> diplo: i mean, does USC make a regular web request on port 80
<diplo> All depends whether it uses the proxy details already setup which I suppose is what the bug request is for
<oimon> transparent proxy is much nicer :)
<diplo> yeah, I always wanted to implement at my last job, but 2 others we're against it for no good reason
<diplo> Don't have one at new job, not enough staff I suppose and more trust
<diplo> Not that I ran through the proxy myself at the last job :P
<screen-x> diplo: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3143.txt
<diplo> Bookmarked, too big to read late friday afternoon
<screen-x> diplo: they aren't amazing points, but slightly better than "no good reason"
<screen-x> but yeah, definitely tl;dr
<nigelb> AlanBell: ping
<diplo> By no good reason I meant that it was more of cba attitude, nothing to do with security etc
<diplo> It was the setup we had had for 10 years and they just decided they didn't want to change
<diplo> When we moved to terminal services I just made some changes so we could log windows user names etc instead of doing via hostnames
<diplo> But I reckon that was the only change we really made in 10 years
<diplo> :D
<screen-x> diplo: well, I guess that counts as stable..
<diplo> heh yeah
<MichealH> Hmm
<MichealH> PiTiVi Is not starting up...
<bigcalm> That's a PiTi
<bigcalm> Sorry, I couldn't hold it back
<hamitron> :D
<bigcalm> MichealH: try starting it from the CLI
<MichealH> bigcalm, Is it just piti or?
<Gary> woo, pub for lunch on a friday rocks
<MichealH> michealh@michealh-desktop:~$ pitivi
<MichealH> Can't find glade module
<MichealH> heh
<MichealH> a default app in ubuntu 10.10.... and it does not have the things needed
<MichealH> ...
<popey> works here
<MichealH> Hmm
<oimon> MichealH: have you just installed it?
<Nafallo> Gary: well... pub for lunch rocks would be more correct, no? ;-)
<oimon> or long time ago?
<MichealH> oimon, It came default in ubuntu 10.10
<Seeker`> weekend \o/
<oimon> hmm. could always try remove and reinstall pitivi - i didn't realise it was default 10.10
<MichealH> oimon, And I guess 10.04, as my laptop has it and I do nto remember installing it
<oimon> MichealH: oh yeah..i am running 10.04 and i have it
<oimon> never use it tbh
<oimon> the only video editing i requre is of .3gp files, and 10.04 doesn't handle it well
 * screen-x waits for a phone to ring
<Seeker`> ring ring
<oimon> screen-x: would it be wrong to type hard questions into irc to get the answer:P
<oimon> wonder if google or #ubuntu-uk would be quicker
<screen-x> oimon: :)
<screen-x> oimon: much as you guys are great, you are unlikely to be able to answer questions about my skills/experience and suitability for a position
<oimon> there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of linuxy jobs out there atm
<screen-x> linuxjobs has had quite  a steady flow of them.
<oimon> screen-x: which site?
<screen-x> and a few Unis (well, one less now!)
<screen-x> oimon: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<oimon> ah yeah, looked there earlier today
<oimon> i had hoped to have this job for a long time, but hey ho
<screen-x> oimon: you'll be an MS MVP in no time ;-)
<oimon> i'd rather be UB40
<exobuzz> grumble launchpad fail.
<exobuzz> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
<oimon> i could always try to change the system from within i guess
<moreati> oimon: if you have PHP fu, there's a lot of jobs on the PHPWM list the last couple of weeks
<oimon> moreati: thanks. guess i should just be patient and see if i get properly stitched up in the new world order at my employer
<screen-x> *ring* *ring*
<diplo> Good night all, have a good weekend
<oimon> screen-x: hope it goes well.
<oimon> i'm off to play donkey kong and cheer myelf up
<hamitron> ouuu
<hamitron> 15% off at a model shop
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> how long does it usually take for a smart check to complete? :P
<moreati> hamitron: at 1:24 scale that's only 0.625% off, doesn't seem that good
<hamitron> haha ;p
<hamitron> 1:32 scalextric ftw ;)
<gord> geez. 5pm on release day and my 3ds still hasn't been shipped. amazon are useless
<Azelphur> keep hitting refresh it'll make them ship it faster :D
 * mgdm orders gord a new F5 key
<gord> turns out that they shipped everyone who used regular delivery days ago and were waiting for another shipment to ship expedited delivery (ie: people that actually wanted it on day one) - so everyone who did expedited is just left with no information and a "dispatching soon" screen that never updates. i did however get an email saying i won't get it today, at 5pm, so thats.. useful?
<hamitron> gord: I never got my last pre-order from amazon
<gord> interesting, now my order has magically vanished
<hamitron> ended up cancelling and ordering elsewhere
<davmor2> hamitron: did you report it,  I found amazon to be pretty on the ball with issues
<hamitron> they had no stock
<hamitron> a guy I know who ordered the day after me got his fine, but I ordered for a lower price....
<shauno> I've never had a problem with amazon re-sending shipments
<shauno> the closest I ever had to an issue, was when the missing shipment showed up a month later, and I couldn't figure out how to return it without cancelling the order
<hamitron> and what I pre-ordered was only available on DVD for pre-orders, steam download was only option after
<hamitron> :(
<shauno> eventually decided two copies for the price of one, was more honest than 1 copy for the price of none.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Price] Twyt Discontinued - http://andrewprice.me.uk/weblog/entry/twyt-discontinued
<hamitron> amazon I've found good generally tbh, had a phone missing in an order, and they just sent another
<gord> shauno, in those situations - unless it was an expensive thing they will generally just tell you to keep it anyway
<gord> amazon are pretty good, but when they screw something up they are big enough that it really hurts. getting a hold of someone who can actually make any difference is almost impossible
<shauno> it wasn't, a $20 game.  I was just paranoid that if it went awry, I'd have no more amazon  (which is pretty terrifying when you're int he sticks)
<hamitron> I dunno where I'd get my IT books from, without amazon :/
<hamitron> probably have to just use google
<hamitron> to learn from
<hamitron> tbh, I think my hassle with amazon was down to codemasters
 * AlanBell is off to Battle:Los Angeles this evening
<hamitron> AlanBell: ?
<hamitron> never heard of it I don't think
<AlanBell> a film of some description
<HazRPG> oh rly?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I thought you were talking about Rage Against the Machines for a second...
<HazRPG> hmm, why is it the kindle screensaver doesn't show pictures of books that's actually on it (or at least related to your interests)?
<HazRPG> seems odd to see some of the book covers it decides to show :/
<popey> http://www.ehow.com/how_7649285_change-kindle-screensaver.html
<HazRPG> popey: cheers
<HazRPG> although seems to easy consider I saw hacks that changed the screensaver - this just seems too easy...
<Azelphur> how long do the longer smart tests take?
<Azelphur> been waiting like 1 hour 30 for it now :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: till they've finished :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> the disk utility gui should just update when it's finished right? no need to restart the disk utility to check
<Seeker`> oooh, my dentist had some leaflets about OSS in his waiting room
<daubers> Evening
<s-fox> TTFN
<Myrtti> meh
<phonex01> hi HazRPG you there ?
<phonex01> im hit with  stone on my head !!!
<phonex01> this is really bad feeling !
<hamitron> stone?
<phonex01> yes we was protesting !
<phonex01> we were protesting and police used stone to hit us !
<phonex01> can you imagine that !
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> bbl, phone
<phonex01> if feel storm in my head hahahah
<phonex01> guys im using backtrack 4 but i have strange thing here
<phonex01> when i use it as live CD using flash stick everything work fine
<phonex01> but when i install it mouse stop working >
<phonex01> ?
<phonex01> why is that  ?
<cbx33> boo ya everyone
<phonex01> hi cbx33
<phonex01> strange name !
<cbx33> phonex01, hey - has a history to it :)
<cbx33> short for cutterbombx33
<phonex01> oh thats good
<phonex01> listen you used backtrack4 before ?
<cbx33> indeed I have
<cbx33> many times
<phonex01> when i use it as live CD using flash stick everything work fine
<phonex01> but when i install it mouse stop working >
<phonex01> why ?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: have you checked the logs?
<phonex01> what logs ?
<MartijnVdS> could be a lot of reasons.. but it sounds strange
<cbx33> hmmm - not sure - i only have it on usb :), booting a live and persistent :)
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: those in /var/log/ :)
<phonex01> then ?
<cbx33> did you try plugging and unplugging a mouse
<cbx33> does keybaord still work?
<phonex01> yes i did
<phonex01> but i think problem with xserver ?
<cbx33> does kbd still work?
<phonex01> keyboard is working fine
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: check the kernel log (kern.lorg)
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> kern.log
<phonex01> wait im installing it again on my flash i will boot using other computer
<phonex01> give me a min
<phonex01> i need a good tool for encyrption and de-encyrption ?
<phonex01> for some common ecnryptions ?
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<czajkowski> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<Azelphur> omg Self-tests still in progress :(
<Azelphur> been nearly 5 hours now
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: self-tests?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: smart tests for this drive
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> yeah those can take a while
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> hmm, is lubotu working?
<Azelphur> he's not talking to me :(
<directhex> he hates you
<directhex> bug 1
<directhex> also hates me
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Azelphur> :(
<directhex> aha!
<directhex> loves me
<directhex> sexy lubotu3
<Azelphur> !ping
<Azelphur> I think factoids are down
<DJones> Azelphur: You could try the web interface
<DJones> http://www.ubottu.com/factoids.cgi
<willy_1977> evening.
<davmor2> Moo
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
 * willy_1977 is installing eclipse
<MartijnVdS> so that's why it's gone dark outside
<brobostigon> :)
<willy_1977> who said that...
<willy_1977> :)
<Azelphur> still waiting for that smart test to finish lol
<Azelphur> might just give up and swap the drive out :p
<willy_1977> smart test?
<Azelphur> willy_1977: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
<willy_1977> ta.
<willy_1977> still have loads to learn in terminology SMART ~ chkdsk :)
<directhex> poor willy_1977 :(
<willy_1977> directhex, how did you know that? have you been speaking to my mrs?
<willy_1977> :p
<directhex> * willy_1977 is installing eclipse
<willy_1977> :)
<daubers> once you get used to it's weirdness, I actually like eclipse
<willy_1977> gotta start somewhere right...
<willy_1977> but I'm after an ide that will support java and python
<willy_1977> time for bed, nn
 * hamitron yawns
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-26
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> hi haz
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: \o/!
 * HazRPG loves the night shift crew
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> gonna need a drink soon
<HazRPG> anything in particular?
<hamitron> coffee
<hamitron> on the hour, time for it
<hamitron> brb
<HazRPG> enjoy :)
<shauno> morning
<Azelphur> well, that explains why easystrokes compiz integration is down :D
<Azelphur> apparently compiz in natty has no dbus xD
<Azelphur> I think it's a bug, though \o/
<gord> has no dbus? what on earth do you mean by that?
<Azelphur> I mean the dbus interface is gone xD
<Azelphur> the plugin is still there, it creates a session but has no objects
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> gord: if your interested look at it in d-feet
<Azelphur> or try any of the examples on the compiz wiki, they won't work
<HazRPG> random
<hamitron> bk
<Azelphur> indeed
<HazRPG> bit slow tonight on here
<shauno> I'm still not awake :/
<HazRPG> shauno: clearly you are :P
 * hamitron just cba
<hamitron> chosen a name for my vps, about it
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> I'm reading reads trolls arguing about ps3 stuff
<HazRPG> reading through*
<hamitron> don't get me started on the ps3 :/
<HazRPG> ;p
<hamitron> I can rant for hours
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> how about Rebecca Black - Friday?
<hamitron> huh?
<HazRPG> oh, you haven't been introduced yet?
<hamitron> no...
<hamitron> I don't think
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0
<hamitron> ah well
<hamitron> I have youtube blocked
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: see now ya just making me want to post an alt link: http://www.break.com/index/rebecca-blacks-friday-worst-song-ever-2023476
<hamitron> that is blocked too
<HazRPG> fine... read this: http://www.directlyrics.com/rebecca-black-friday-lyrics.html
<HazRPG> seriously, you don't watch vids online?
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> each to their own...
<hamitron> I found a lot of my download limit was getting used
<hamitron> so blocked such stuff
<HazRPG> ah, that makes sense
<hamitron> I normally have a tunnel for just myself
<HazRPG> although, personally I just set a quota block on certain sites
<hamitron> but I have recently re-configured a lot of stuff
<hamitron> not got around to making the tunnel
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> 7am, waking up in the morning, Gotta be fresh, gotta go downstairs, Gotta have my bowl, gotta have cereal, Seeinâ everything, the time is goinâ, Tickinâ on and on, everybodyâs rushinâ, Gotta get down to the bus stop, Gotta catch my bus, I see my friends (My friends)
<HazRPG> imagine that... being sung by a female justin beba
<HazRPG> with lyrics like that, it really makes you believe that the worlds is getting dumber
<hamitron> tbh, it depends on the tune
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> as I said, its like justin beba
<HazRPG> pop/rnb/slow ... kinda tune
<HazRPG> with a hint of dance (sorta?)
<hamitron> wtf is justin beba? ;/
<hamitron> I feel really out of touch with the world sometimes, haha
<shauno> you're not missing much
<HazRPG> yeah, you really aren't
<HazRPG> not?*
<HazRPG> your*
<HazRPG> I should have slept properly ... I don't think 2x30min naps really counts >_<
<hamitron> "you really aren't" sounds fine to me ;/
<HazRPG> also, radios tuned to Radio 1 should be banned!
<hamitron> or the BBC in general ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: ...heh, so it is - lack of proper sleep makes my comprehension skills deteriorate
<shauno> I was flicking thru stations the other morning and caught radio1 playing bohemian rhapsody at 5am.  caught me by surprise
<HazRPG> if that even works as a thing...
<HazRPG> shauno: radio 1 is good when people should be sleeping xD
<HazRPG> I like the dnb sessions they have between 3-6am sometimes
<hamitron> dnb?
<HazRPG> and the rock music they play once every month or so in the early am's
<shauno> I tend to listen to the world service because they actually have some pretty interesting programs.  I don't go to radio for music :/
<HazRPG> dnb - Drum n Bass
<hamitron> most my music I listen to is on Absolute Radio Classic Rock
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: ... don't judge, but I like classic FM most of the time
<HazRPG> hamitron: that's over digital though right?
<hamitron> I stream online
<HazRPG> ah
<hamitron> but yeh
<hamitron> 32kbps I can live with
<HazRPG> can't get that in my car without expensive gear to do it with
<hamitron> not even on a phone?
<HazRPG> last I looked a DAB radio costs around Â£50
<hamitron> dab sucks anyway
<hamitron> FM ftw
<HazRPG> I'd only ever get it to listen to ARCR
<HazRPG> but only if it was cheap to buy... or I could build one easily myself
<hamitron> I can't stop DAB breaking up
<hamitron> so given up on it
<shauno> I just stream everything on my phone, so I'm not bound to local stations
<HazRPG> better than using a phone over 3g that chops in and out during travels
<hamitron> I can't even get a 2g signal :(
<HazRPG> I use to use last.fm on my phone via the stereo of the car's tape drive... but well, having to reach for the phone every so often to click play once its lost signal isn't really good for driving
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> tbh, I wouldn't want music when driving
<hamitron> like to listen to the engine
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I used last.fm, because I knew it would play whatever genre I wanted to listen to... or even just must that it's decided I like with my account being over 7 years standing the "personal radio/neighbouring radio" is pretty darn accurate to my taste now
<HazRPG> ...erm that was a mega fail, I'm too lazy to correct
<hamitron> right
<hamitron> off to bed
<hamitron> laters you guys
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> catch ya later dude
<shauno> bah.  foods needs to be faster.
<HazRPG> tell me about it
 * HazRPG runs to check timer
<HazRPG> bah! 7mins
<HazRPG> probably won't be enough to feed me... should probably order something in to go with it
<HazRPG> shauno: how much sleep you get in the end?
<HazRPG> Foods up!
<shauno> not quite 8, but enough
<HazRPG> better than what I had
<shauno> oh dear god
<shauno> just trying an irc client I haven't poked at in a while
<shauno> didn't think that it would have remembered settings from last time I used it, 6-9 months ago
<shauno> it just autojoined me into a shedload of channels
<HazRPG> heh :P
<HazRPG> guessing you didn't purge remove
<HazRPG> if such thing exists on osx
<shauno> wouldn't have made a difference :)
<shauno> if purge removes things from $HOME, someone needs to be shot
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> I thought you meant global settings
<HazRPG> shauno: oh yeah, when you were looking through those photos earlier... did ya see any of my panorama attempts?
<HazRPG> I think they came out pretty good :)
<shauno> heh, nope
<HazRPG> shauno: e.g. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KTJiboPLP0U1p-YiuOy5bkSln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> considering I'd never managed to get panorama to work on any camera before... I think I did well :)
<HazRPG> my tripod investment helped too :)
<HazRPG> I'm no photographer, but I think I did well overall with some of the snaps I took out there
<HazRPG> esp. considering I just used a regular 10MP portable camera
<HazRPG> you'd never believe this was take through a wire fence for example with tiny holes (see background for reference): https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/svoTHVM_MvVK9Yxdz2BM_ESln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> actually wait, this is better reference of how tiny the hole was: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HR-Ga7an8vI0d5mVrzhrLUSln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> although my skillz can't be any good, I don't think I had any comments from friends/family over facebook :(
<shauno> have I been joining and parting? or is this thing losing it's mind already
<HazRPG> hmm, well there hasn't been a net.split
<HazRPG> I should really get off the kindle website...
<HazRPG> (amazon/kindle site)
<HazRPG> if I keep this up, I'll have enough books to last the rest of the year >_<
<shauno> I've always got enough books to last a year.  <3 safaribookonline.com :)
<HazRPG> yeah, but I also have the 20 odd ebooks I got from gutenburg :P
<Azelphur> Time not found :P
<shauno> ?
<HazRPG> guessing he means for reading too many books
<HazRPG> :P
<Azelphur> when I said that the time was 4:04 :P
<shauno> ah
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> considering it's a free ebook, its quite awesome!
<HazRPG> "There was an old robot quite vain; With jealousy almost insane. It made him so cross; That I was his boss; And firmly in charge of his brain.
<HazRPG> "
<HazRPG> "A robot once made by the Franks; Liked plenty of steam in its tanks; But overhead pressure; In excessive measure; Blew out all its memory banks."
<HazRPG> The books called "The First Completely Electronic Robot and Science Fiction Limerick Book" and is free :)
<shauno> ugh.  what not.  my card's being declined, while the bank is showing it perfectly fit for the job.  grrr.
<HazRPG> :/
<shauno> ain't technology great
<HazRPG> always
<shauno> "computer says no" comes to mind :/
<shauno> reminds me, someone needs to come up with a way to give ram away
<shauno> every time I get a new laptop, first thing I do is max out the ram aftermarket.  so you end up with little boxes with silly amounts of ram in just kicking around the place
<shauno> this one's going to have 4Gb removed from it in the first week.  seems like wasteful amounts to just leave to rot in a box
<Severian> shauno, you could mail the ram to me.  I am pretty sure that would work.
<shauno> you got anything that uses 204pin sodimms?  (eg, it's not desktop ram)
<Severian> No, but I rebuild computers for a couple of charity groups and I would find it a home before long.  I am in the US.  I bet there are good places in England that could use it.
<shauno> well if I can find anyone who can use matched pairs of laptop ram, they're welcome to it
<HazRPG> shauno: try ebay :)
<shauno> I tend to avoid ebay .. it's too much like hard work
<shauno> last time I sold something on ebay the buyer went ape because there was a catch that I made very clear in the description
<shauno> just more hassle than it's worth
<HazRPG> fairy nuff
<HazRPG> I should probably get some proper sleep
<HazRPG> eyes are literally on fire, and glowly much like the cig. end I just put out
<HazRPG> right, going to bed guys, nitey nite
<shauno> ooh, that's nifty.  Calibre will work as a content server for stanza
<MartijnVdS> stanza?
<shauno> ebook reader I use on my phone
<MartijnVdS> ah
<shauno> handy because it hooks into a whole bunch of places as stores, instead of being tied to one vendor
<shauno> including stuff like feedbooks & gutenberg
<MartijnVdS> I use my Sony e-reader thingy
<shauno> the content server in it was a bit rough, it'd only show the document I had open in the reader on my desktop.  but calibre's just pops up as another store/source
<shauno> also: morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> morning
 * MartijnVdS tries something completely different re: sat tuner
<MartijnVdS> if this works, it might be a temperature issue :|
<shauno> hehe ..don't mark /bin/sleep ugo-x .. stuff goes nuts in subtle ways
<MartijnVdS> shauno: lots of init scripts
<MartijnVdS> and postinsts
<MartijnVdS> I'd guess
<shauno> probably not the prettiest way to do that, but shuffled it along
<MartijnVdS> why did you do it?
<shauno> I like blunt weapons
<shauno> okay, got an app that'll one file at a time
<MartijnVdS> you accidentally a word
<shauno> if you tell it to open 10 files, it'll open 10, and chomp thru them one at a time
<shauno> if you tell it to open 20, it'll queue thru 20
<shauno> if you tell it to open 50, it'll fall over and die
<shauno> so I did a for glob; open file; sleep 2 loop, thinking I'd throttle them going in
<shauno> but every time I fed it a file, it came to front & stole focus.  having focus stolen every 2 seconds is rather annoying
<shauno> so I'd mark sleep -x, let the queue fill up, then mark it +x again while it chomped away
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like you need to learn about queues and/or map/reduce ;)
<shauno> ugly as sin, but it got them thru as fast as it could handle without stuffing the queue until it exploded
<shauno> it was neither a sensible plan, nor a sensible fix.  but I didn't want to start at the start again :(
<shauno> now it appears I've been throttled by a web service that doesn't like me scraping it at a sustained rate, and something I completely forgot was running went nuts when I stole broke sleep :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: lftp can do HTTP mirrors with multiple parallel downloads
<shauno> that tends to get me kicked off it too
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> don't do that :)
<MartijnVdS> why would you do that? :)
<shauno> their limit is seconds per connection, not connections per second :)
<shauno> it'd be nice if they had a proper api, but instead I scrape several thousand xml files per run, then nap for 3 hours and start again
<gord> yay 3ds :D now i can see the world in three dee's
<shauno> heh, fun
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> issyl0: what train?
<gord> 3d camera is cool :)
<AlanBell> http://supertunaman.com/cdl/cdl_v0-1.txt awesome
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Wut.. :)
<AlanBell> today I shall be mostly hacking the government
<AlanBell> if anyone can get to the Guardian offices near Kings Cross at 6PM you can come and see what we have been up to
<AlanBell> and I expect I will be on IRC looking for help and ideas throughout the day
<AlanBell> http://rewiredstate.org/events/national-hack-the-government-day-2011
<ging> you'll be in cuba by night fall
<AlanBell> they will never take me alive
<ging> that's not a problem
<AlanBell> right, time to go find a train
<AlanBell> laters all
<ging> bye
<czajkowski> aloha
<marxjohnson> yo czajkowski
<czajkowski> marxjohnson: howdy
<czajkowski> marxjohnson: up to anything today
<shauno> grrr @ banks.  someone remind me why they're better than keeping socks under the mattress?
<marxjohnson> food shopping \m/,
<marxjohnson> and making a website for my gf
<marxjohnson> not much else
<marxjohnson> you?
 * dutchie is off to the boat race today
<dutchie> eventually
<dutchie> maybe
<czajkowski> marxjohnson: heading to London later to see the bf and go for dinner
<marxjohnson> I was going to go to the march in london, but I can't afford to get there :p
<czajkowski> relaxing weekend this weekend :) busy couple of weeks ahead of me
<czajkowski> marxjohnson: what March ?
 * czajkowski hugs dutchie 
<marxjohnson> http://marchforthealternative.org.uk/
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> dont think it effects the routes I'll be going
<dutchie> everyone is going to london it seems then
 * czajkowski has yet to finish up getting stuff ready for document freedom day next week 
<danfish> dutchie: it's where all the cool kids hang out ;)
<danfish> morning!!
<czajkowski> danfish: hello there stranger
<danfish> czajkowski: hiya
<czajkowski> danfish: how did your conference go ?
<danfish> a week of no internets \o/
<czajkowski> oh my
<danfish> czajkowski: the conference was....interesting
<danfish> congrats on the rubgy (through gritted teeth)
<danfish> was the pub OK?
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> yup rugby was great
<czajkowski> pub was nice, bit packed but I suspect every pub tbh would be that day.
<czajkowski> they wouldnt open upstairs which was kinda annoying and the volume was a tad loud but overall great
 * MartijnVdS builds a kernel.. for the first time in AGES
<danfish> ooh, they normally do open upstairs there. Maybe staffing probs
<czajkowski> danfish: but a damn good game :D
<czajkowski> danfish: they said a private function was on, but went up and it was dead quiet, bit naff really as more space would have been good
<danfish> czajkowski: a deserved win. England didn't turn up
<czajkowski> nods
<danfish> we must plan for the world cup :)
<czajkowski> danfish: you should have seen the grin onmy face though :) and I had some irish friends over
<czajkowski> danfish: yup! definately so, and I think we'll even find a place that will let us reseve seats this time
<danfish> I saw theopensourcerer's tweets re your grin
<czajkowski> he wasn't a happy chappy with me at all
<czajkowski> :(
<danfish> czajkowski: maybe his local for the world cup?
<czajkowski> in farnham
<czajkowski> oh yes
<czajkowski> we may need to pick a neutral game and not an england v ireland game or he may kill me
<czajkowski> danfish: though watching a pub full of english supporters cheer on the french was rather amusing
<danfish> czajkowski: really? Not true Englishmen then ;)
<czajkowski> well they had to, france needed to beat wales in order to guarantee england to win
<czajkowski> danfish: did you see the video that has been released?
<danfish> err, no
<shauno> the  nike one?
<czajkowski> shauno: aye
<czajkowski> cant find the link now
<shauno> what a storm in a teacup that was :/
<czajkowski> danfish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ5VT_u3Lb4
<danfish> hah - a healthy dose of fail there
<czajkowski> danfish: next time pick a match that doesnt conflict with a conference :)
<danfish> :)
<danfish> that's my one conference for the year - box ticked
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Why is anybody even here this early on a Saturday morning?
<bigcalm> My excuse is that my GF needs more sleep but I'm restless so banished myself to downstairs
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> because it's 10:30 :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: either you're in a different timezone, or you've changed your clocks a day early
<MartijnVdS> za mrt 26 10:29:16 CET 2011
<bigcalm> So, different timezone it is
<shauno> ooh I forgot they change soon
<bigcalm> Tomorrow at 1am -> 2am
<shauno> just means I have to be paranoid about monday morning, as the iphone seems to have an odd talent for borking dst changes
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 2am-3am here
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Apple is good at that, yes
<shauno> I mean, I understand, it's not like we've done this twice a year for the last 60+ years.  it totally makes sense that it should cause the alarm clock to go into "just kidding" mode
<MartijnVdS> Just use Ubuntu as your alarm clock ;)
<shauno> I don't sleep with my computers :)
<bigcalm> The opposite sounds perverted
<MartijnVdS> shauno: OK get an Android phone then
<shauno> hah, nevar.  I'll just wake one of my old palms up for the night
<MartijnVdS> shauno: So you don't sleep with androids, so you'll just use your palm?
<MartijnVdS> -so
<shauno> :/
<bigcalm> Set 2 alarms, one hour each side of your usual alarm.
 * daubers just got a clock that uses the DAB time signal
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hm, that sounds like a good idea..
<shauno> bigcalm: that didn't help last time :/  last time it just quit sounding periodic alarms (eg, ones set to go off "every monday" or such)
 * bigcalm wonders if a reboot is really required with the recent updates. Grumble
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: kernel updates? yes
<bigcalm> shauno: don't sleep ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: other updates? maybe.. but logging out/back in might work
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "I haven't slept because I didn't trust my phone"
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: if there were a kernel update, I'd accept that
<shauno> bigcalm: that's actually plan A :)
<bigcalm> I understand that ubuntu is user friendly. A reboot is simpler to understand for the masses
 * bigcalm still dislikes having window buttons on the lhs
<gord> the AR game on 3ds where it takes a picture of yourself then puts your flying head dancing around the room you are in and you ahve to shoot it before it kisses you is... disturbing...
 * MartijnVdS has a micro-sd card reader that's also a 3G modem 8-)
<MartijnVdS> or was it the other way around
<czajkowski> really need to remember to eat food when taking pain killers
<czajkowski> so not feeling well now :(
<czajkowski> bugger
<bigcalm> czajkowski: *hugs*
<bigcalm> czajkowski: how's the back?
<czajkowski> really bad :(
<bigcalm> I thought you were getting it sorted?
<czajkowski> takes more than 1 physio visit
<czajkowski> i see traction in my future
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Grr, laptop keyboards
 * daubers ponders meandering into town for coffee
<willy_1977> morning
<willy_1977> daubers, sounds like a half decent plan :)
<MartijnVdS> Which half? Meandering or coffee? :P
<daubers> Could take the EOS for a wonder along the river too
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: both
<willy_1977> EOS? after fiddling with eclipse ... it's not so bad... still looking for others... any ide suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: netbeans
<MartijnVdS> or just vim + a proper rc
<willy_1977> vim :o
<MartijnVdS> vim â¥
<willy_1977> I'm still going through the man but I've used gVim on windows as a replacement to notepad for a while now... so picked up some commands...
<MartijnVdS> good start
<MartijnVdS> I'd recommend starting with an empty .vimrc, and then building up one by reading through the help
<MartijnVdS> and/or vim.wikia
<MartijnVdS> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: thanks I'll bookmark that for the future.
<willy_1977> and I just got through installing netbeans this morning to suck it and see, I like how it's fairly easy to tidy up after all this messing around...
<willy_1977> not that there's much to it of course sudo apt get etc. :p
<bigcalm> It appears to be tea o'clock!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so it does
<marxjohnson> I'm using Aptana (eclipse) with viplugin, best of both world ;-)
<willy_1977> ooOOOO tea break... what a great time to get in here...
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: fresh darjeeling \o/
<MartijnVdS> I wish sat scanning wasn't so slow :|
<willy_1977> earl grey if I've not supped it all
<shauno> yaknow, growing up on star trek, I was kinda let down when I tried earl grey :(
<willy_1977> shauno: it's not to everyones taste can be too... hummm... "flowery" I guess...
<marxjohnson> Right, off the Thresher's for the weekly shop... see you all later!
<willy_1977> but that's the only reason I have it I take great pleasure asking for "earl grey, hot"
 * exobuzz drinks "yorkshire" tea.. (obviously grown in yorkshire ;-) )
<willy_1977> marxjohnson: I'll bear the ide suggestion in mind ;) see you later.
<exobuzz> it's a good brew though
<willy_1977> exobuzz: +1 for yorkshire tea
<exobuzz> loose tea of course. im a tea snob.
<marxjohnson> exobuzz: not nice with southampton water, have to use the special "hard water" version for some reason
<exobuzz> we are in a hardwater area, and the normal version does well for me
<marxjohnson> how odd. maybe it's just the flat where I was living last time I tried it ;)
<willy_1977> I went through a phase of that - in a recent house move I lost my tea making for one cup and strainer yet to be replaced...
<exobuzz> my stepfather was a tea taster, so there was never an excuse for a badly made tea when i was a kid.
<willy_1977> quite right, some of us are British you know... there's no excuse for a badly made brew ever !
<exobuzz> hehe
<willy_1977> how you doin' anyhow exobuzz?
<exobuzz> popey, i got a natty alpha for joggler if you wanted to give it a run. i just need to sync with the server and do a build
<exobuzz> willy_1977, slight headache (my own fault), but apart from that good. you ?
<willy_1977> ahhh self induce headaches ;)
<willy_1977> I'm good just glad I'm finally at the end of a bad week...
 * willy_1977 is trying to decide.... an afternoon at a kids party or an afternoon doing housework :(
<exobuzz> i dont much like your choice there heh
<exobuzz> where is "put feet up and veg out"
<willy_1977> I know... can you tell that mrs w had a hand in those choices...
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> :)
<czajkowski> for those interested in documentation
<czajkowski> http://twitter.com/#!/dexyit/status/51589903460466688
<MartijnVdS> documentations is for people who can't read code :P
<MartijnVdS> -s
<czajkowski> >:(
<willy_1977> titter...
<willy_1977> oops
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: you know you said that out loud?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Note the :P
<willy_1977> just for clarity - very much tongue-in-cheek comments on documentation may follow from me...
<MartijnVdS> though I do think there are different needs for different "levels"
<MartijnVdS> One set of docs for the people who use my API
<MartijnVdS> Another for the people who write the backend of said API with me
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<willy_1977> that sounds like far too much documentation to me...
<czajkowski> well I've seen developers ideas of documentation, and when I needed to test their area, it was impossible to read and it lacked information
<czajkowski> I also used to write it for end users
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I don't deal with end users.. I deal with other developers :)
<czajkowski> so there are differnt types of documentation
<willy_1977> czajkowski: in my experience if you *get* documentation from a dev you're doing well ;)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: and if you left tomorrowo morning there should be a set standard of documentation there so people can just walk in and carry on
<willy_1977> not saying I agree with that by the way.
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: that's why we don't do things alone where I work
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: fair enough.
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: changes bigger than a few-line bugfix are made by at least 2 programmers
<MartijnVdS> (and even the small bugfixy ones get reviewed by someone else)
<MartijnVdS> It cut down on bug numbers dramatically when we started doing it this way :)
<willy_1977> code reviews are essential - it can feel as if it slows stuff down if you've never been subject to it... but they do a fine job of spotting ID-10-T errors...
<MartijnVdS> Still, documenting is necesarry and Hard Work
<czajkowski> nod s
<willy_1977> +1
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: A few of my coworkers feel "exposed" (attacked?) when their code is reviewed
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: I've heard that as well
<willy_1977> when I started working with the company I worked at before they did peer code reviews and it took me a while to adjust to it...
<MartijnVdS> "Don't you trust me?"
<shauno> I wonder if there's a way to get them to see it as showing off?
<willy_1977> shauno: that's an interesting point...
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hmmm
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that sounds like a good idea
<shauno> if they're proud of what they've done, it's only right someone should actually see it, rather than just churn it into binary
<MartijnVdS> it's Perl, but yes :)
<willy_1977> what helped for me was when I was finally allowed to review code too - then it felt as if the trust was back...
<shauno> oh.  nevermind that then
<shauno> :p
<exobuzz> "Documentation goes here" - my normal level of documentation ;-
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: "XXX TODO Write docs"
<exobuzz> hehe yeh
<willy_1977> you guys are over-documenting if you ask me...
<willy_1977> your code needs to be clearer - send it for review :p
<shauno> from what I gather, the way our product works is that one group writes the documenation
<shauno> and then the devs are given the job of making it accurate
<MartijnVdS> Oh and commit messages that go: "Fixed a bug" instead of "Fixed bug #1234: 'Clicking link X shows error page'"
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1234 in Launchpad itself "Gina is an unmaintainable mess of command line options, environment variables and shell scripts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234
<MartijnVdS> *RAGE*
<MartijnVdS> lubotu3: stfu :)
<MartijnVdS> ahem sorry
<MartijnVdS> st*u!
<MartijnVdS> My commit messages for one-liner bugfixes tend to be 10 times as long as the patch :)
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: :D lubotu3 rage :D
<willy_1977> my personal favourite commit messages:-
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: no the *RAGE* was about bad commit messages :)
<willy_1977> are you sure...?
<willy_1977> :p
<MartijnVdS> .. as ewll
<willy_1977> anyhow, personal fave:- commited by: adev
<willy_1977> *RAGE*
<MartijnVdS> "Yes, we know... the system tells us that already"
<MartijnVdS> Explain the _why_ not the _what_ :)
<MartijnVdS> The _what_ I can see (unified diff isn't magic)
<willy_1977> :)
<willy_1977> I was counting to 10
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: in binary 8-)
<willy_1977> of course
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<willy_1977> brobostigon: good morning, how's you?
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostiman
<brobostigon> willy_1977:  my back really hurts. how about you?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good morning, :)
<willy_1977> brobostigon: sorry to hear that, I'm doing ok thanks.
<brobostigon> willy_1977: :)
 * willy_1977 will brb got to sort the kids out.
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: bubble sort? quick sort? :)
<willy_1977> B.O.T.H. sort...
<willy_1977> back of the... not really of course ;)
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> from the Guardian offices
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell :)
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> hi Pendulum, how is conbust?
<Pendulum> good :)
<Pendulum> I ended up skipping the panel I mentioned yesterday, but I'm seeing friends I haven't seen in years and probably won't see again for at least a year or more
<Pendulum> but one of them offered to send me books this summer :D
<AlanBell> lovely
<Pendulum> I would not be surprised if the other offers once she hears about my summer plans, but she showed up later so hasn't gotten the life update yet ;-)
<Pendulum> friends in publishing ftw :)
<willy_1977> AlanBell: morning, at the offices?
<willy_1977> Pendulum: morning.
<AlanBell> willy_1977: national hack the government day
<AlanBell> geek takeover of the newsroom
<willy_1977> AlanBell: sounds fun :)
<MartijnVdS> Only geek news today!
<willy_1977> and in further news... : 00111010
<willy_1977> hmmm I have a non-responsive NetBeans IDE :( not a good start for it...
<MartijnVdS> hmm vim
<willy_1977> lol
<willy_1977> ok ok... I take your point.
<popey> exobuzz: oooo
<czajkowski> popey: ello ello ello
<popey> lo
<willy_1977> bug #214370
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 214370 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Logout/Shutdown Sound Not Working" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214370
<willy_1977> picked a doozy for my first papercut me thinks...?
<willy_1977> may have to find a "this label needs changing" ;)
<alexcockell> Had to reboot my router..
<hamitron> :)
<exobuzz> popey, *cough* http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/img/ubuntunatty-v1.0alpha-btrfscom.img.gz
<exobuzz> consider it a test/alpha release of course. no compiz right now, as I need to forcibly enable that. (or you can start it from commandline).
<exobuzz> erk. sorry. scrap that.
<exobuzz> i totally broke the image. i didnt notice the error when it was building
 * exobuzz rebuilds without the typo he made. will be another 20 mins or so now. sorry
<jagez> Are my ears deceiving me or did I just hear the police head of public order on BBC News 24 use the words "open source" in connection with a possible violent element who might turn up to disrupt today's rally?
 * hamitron grumbles
<hamitron> 3 decent comps here and only the newly uilt is stable.... so tempting to just unplug the others
<hamitron> :/
 * directhex whistles
<hamitron> dh :)
<exobuzz> popey, ok. the link should be ok now.
<hamitron> omg, why is networking with windows so hard :/
<hamitron> at this rate gonna be just using ftp
<willy_1977> hamitron: s'up?
<hamitron> can't get a share on a windows 7 comp to be seen by a windows xp comp
<willy_1977> want some suggestions?
<hamitron> I was using a ubuntu machine inbetween
<hamitron> but then the psu went pop
<hamitron> sure, plz :)
<hamitron> "use linux"? ;)
<willy_1977> :)
<willy_1977> win 7 it's not enough just to share
<willy_1977> as it was in prev. version of windows
<willy_1977> it has a separate security tab too
<willy_1977> have you set a user with access in there as well as sharing the folder?
<MartijnVdS> You have to select "this is a trusted network" somewhere
<willy_1977> yeah bit of an oversight...by me... are they on the same network or are you coming in from t'interweb etc.
<hamitron> man, i never could work out gui configs
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> yeh, on the same network
<willy_1977> kk
<hamitron> tbh, I transfered 70gb fine
<hamitron> now I can't view the shares
<willy_1977> :o
<willy_1977> they still able to ping each other?
<hamitron> but I suspect I may have messed everything up trying to fix it
<hamitron> yep
<willy_1977> any windows firewalls switched on?
<hamitron> yes, but it didn't help turning them off
<willy_1977> what do you get if you try and access just the c$ e.g. \\computernameorip\c$ ?
<hamitron> from the xp machine?
<willy_1977> yep, my guess is you'll get the enter your username/password gui
<hamitron> ffs, got a blue screen and it powered off
<hamitron> :(
<willy_1977> ok I'd go with the following suggestion:-
<willy_1977> <hamitron> "use linux"? ;)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I intend to
<willy_1977> kk power it back up let's see what's going on for now.
<hamitron> just wanting to get some data off this comp first
<hamitron> k, brb then
<hamitron> :)
<willy_1977> so are they both on the same workgroup / domain?
<willy_1977> ah ok.
<hamitron> I could see the comp names
<willy_1977> sounds as if that's fine.
<willy_1977> let's check some stuff on win 7 then.
<willy_1977> can you go to Control Panel \ All Control Panel Items \ Network and Sharing Center
<willy_1977> and click on change advanced sharing settings
 * daubers sends another snotty email to the estate agents
<hamitron> there
<willy_1977> just want to check that
<willy_1977> turn on network discovery is set
<willy_1977> turn on file and printer sharing is set
<hamitron> both are
<willy_1977> and turn on sharing so anyone with network access can read and write files in the public folders
<hamitron> it is
<willy_1977> cool
<willy_1977> presumably you have access to an administrator user on the win7 machine?
<hamitron> yeh
<willy_1977> ok
<willy_1977> if you close that down, and back to explorer you need to find the share...
<hamitron> I've created a new folder directly on C to play with
<willy_1977> memory is getting vague, if you right mouse click on that folder what options are there, sharing and security is that one option in win7 or is it two separate?
<hamitron> there seems to be multiple ways to share
<willy_1977> ok, give me a second I'm just booting up the win7 laptop ;)
<hamitron> but my XP comp can't even view the shares on my win7 comp
<willy_1977> ok, I'll get back in a second I'll try it here see what I get.
<hamitron> ty
<willy_1977> np
<hamitron> ohhhh
<hamitron> can see files from win7 comp
<hamitron> and gone
<hamitron> gonna just put another hdd in the comp
<hamitron> ;/
<willy_1977> kk
<willy_1977> fwiw it's this homegroup thing, I can't seem to get that to disable and play nicely with XP :/
<matti> issyl0: *hug*
<MartijnVdS> argh.. mplayer Y U NO DO PROPER diseqc
<directhex> diseqc, lol
<em> what is the most common/standard TLD in the UK?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: diseqc is useful :)
<em> if a person was making a website and wanted a presence in the UK, is .co.uk the one to get?
<directhex> em, ys
<directhex> yes
<MartijnVdS> directhex: especially if you have 3 satellites to choose from :)
<em> directhex: not .uk ?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, but anything that's not astra2/eurobird1 is filled with foreigners and porn!
<directhex> em, no.
<hamitron> is there any way for linux to read these daft RAID setups?
<gord> em, we follow the standards setout back in the day. so .co.uk is most common
<em> im sorry for having to ask but when you say 'no' does that mean 'no, not .uk' or 'no, you are not it's not, not .uk, it actually should be .uk' ?
<gord> its kinda strange really, everyone else just uses .de or .jp or whatever
<MartijnVdS> gord: except for a few exceptions, like bl.uk :)
<em> okay i see thanks very much
<directhex> gord, nein
<directhex> gord, the japanese do it right too
<directhex> it's amazon.co.jp, but amazon.de
<gord> there are quite a few just .jp sites though
<gord> i guess thats for non commercial stuff? argh, i don't even care :(
<directhex> "Locations using this include India (.in), Indonesia (.id), Israel (.il), the United Kingdom (.uk), New Zealand (.nz), Japan (.jp), South Korea (.kr) and Cook Islands (.ck)"
<gord> this is the single most dull and boring topic we could possibly talk about
<MartijnVdS> gord: OK, suggest a new topic :)
<hamitron> help hami recover his movie collection instead ;)
<directhex> cake
<directhex> cake is tasty
<issyl0> matti: ! *hug*
<gord> how about we talk about how awesome my 3ds is?
<gord> and how me having one makes me better somehow
<hamitron> gord: you got it?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Short skirts, loooong jacket?
<gord> i did
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> gone screwy eyed yet?
<gord> nope, i don't get that. maybe i'm just used to 3d. had a 3d tv for quite a while
<directhex> gord, pfft, i laugh at your low-resolution 3d cameras on your 3ds
 * hamitron likes his psp
<gord> directhex, well it doesn't have a very high resolution to display ;)
<gord> all the AR stuff using the 3d camera's is impressive though
<directhex> but if you take a 3d photo, how does it look when viewed on your 3d tv?
<gord> i don't think you can transfer photos around like that
<directhex> sure you can. they're just .mpo files
<directhex> there's a free app in PSN for viewing them
<gord> at any rate, the 3ds is a poor 3d camera, thats really not what its for ;)
<gord> it comes with a game where you scan in your face and heads fly about with your face on it and you have to shoot them. so i scanned in my cats face. terrifying.
<directhex> caaaaat face!
<directhex> he is a big cat face!
<directhex> he has the body of a cat, and the face of a cat!
<alexcockell> Anyone else watching the footage of everything kicking off in London?
<directhex> nope
<MartijnVdS> I am now :)
<MartijnVdS> or will be, once mplayer decides to work
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: that doesn't look like a riot
<directhex> i predict a riot
<directhex> iiiiiiii predict a riot
<alexcockell> BBC aree keeping away from it - Sky News are running footage where it's all kicking off..
<matti> issyl0: ;]
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: Ah, commerce > news I see :)
<alexcockell> I'm Freeview only..
<directhex> i think charlie brooker has a few words to say on the topic
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: I only get freesat here, but Sky News was showing commercials when I switched to it :)
<Myrtti> myyyh.
<willy_1977> parp
<Azelphur> whats the command to check a drive for errors
<Azelphur> just built a pc for my cousin hes making a 2 hour drive and all of a sudden it wont boot, paniced here
<penguin42> Azelphur: smartctl -a
<Azelphur> that takes like 8 hours, I have 1
<Azelphur> and there can't be anything wrong with the drive I just swapped it out lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well then start driving the other way
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> does it work with a livecd?
<penguin42> Azelphur: smartctl -a will give you the error log instantly
<Azelphur> yes
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> basically I was installing wine1.3 and it went read only filesystem on me
<Azelphur> it did this before I thought it was the HD so I swapped it out
<Azelphur> and then it worked fine for 48 hours, and sods law he does it when hes on his way
<Seeker`> Bluray playback on linux \o/
<willy_1977> hamitron: how'd you go on? I've tried all sorts with this and cannot get my xp laptop to play nicely with win7, tbh though that's not going to be helped by one being attached to a domain and another a workgroup ;)
<Azelphur> penguin42, http://pastebin.com/XCqfGu8m
<Azelphur> I think it might have been a bad SATA cable since I swapped the HD it's kinda the only thing left
<hamitron> willy_1977: I've given up
<hamitron> windows is just crap
<hamitron> and my own fault for using it
<hamitron> I'd forgotten how much hassle you get with it
<penguin42> Azelphur: That's a happy drive
<Azelphur> yay
<Azelphur> I knew it was :D
<Azelphur> so bad cable should fix it?
<penguin42> Azelphur: When the FS went RO did you manage to capture the rest of the errors?
<penguin42> Azelphur: The question is WHY did it go RO
<Azelphur> no I didn't sorry
<willy_1977> hamitron: well, windows is ok but every so often a new version comes out with some new features - e.g. when xp first came out you put one of those on your network and in it's inifinite wisdom it took over security duties if your domain controllers were older...
<hamitron> willy_1977: maybe I am just too dumb to use windows
<hamitron> ;)
<willy_1977> :D I'm too dumb to use linux then ;)
<hamitron> will have to just stick with linux
<hamitron> apart from graphics, I've never had issues with linux distros tbh
<willy_1977> fair do's, the other thought I had was boot off a livecd on the win7 machine then you'd be networking xp to linux?
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> my main problem is the XP machine has a weird RAID 0 setup
<willy_1977> ah
<Azelphur> penguin42, e2fsk was spamming arrays of negative values lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: That's very very bad
<Azelphur> I'm just gonna reload windows and skip Ubuntu for now and cross fingers it doesn't come back
<Azelphur> because my cousin arrived
<hamitron> else I'd of done that long ago out of choice :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Run a memcheck
<Azelphur> I have done it passed
<Azelphur> I ran memcheck and smart and everything before I told him to come
<Azelphur> it was all working :/
<jonsaint> hi all. ive installed the google earth programme but i cant get it to run. it appears in my applications>internet folder but when clicked on nothing happens. ive tried to instal it 3 times now. any ideas??
<jacobw> jonsaint: which version of ubuntu?
<jacobw> (and google earth?)
<willy_1977> hamitron: I did wonder as I was typing it...
<jacobw> jonsaint: how are you trying to install it/
<jonsaint> 10.10 and its the latest one off their site
<hamitron> willy_1977: I think I'm going to have to try get it working, it is still bugging me
<hamitron> :)
<willy_1977> hamitron: yep, me too I hate leaving things like that... :/
<jacobw> jonsaint: try `sudo apt-get install lsb-core`
<jacobw> jonsaint: then try starting google earth again
<jonsaint> cheers jacobw. by the way, i did know how to do this but forgot, how do you send private messages (in red)
<jacobw> `/msg jacobw hello`
<jacobw> we don't often use private messaging
<jonsaint> there was an easier way that that and you typed the first few letters and the names come up
<jacobw> yeah, type the first few letters and press tab
<jonsaint> ah yes thats it
<jonsaint> cheers jacobw
<jacobw> jo<tab> autocompletes your nick
<jacobw> no problem, i found the tip on the ubuntu wiki, be sure to check it out in future
<jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleEarth
<jonsaint> thanks for the help and advice :-)
<danfish> grr - first czajkowski's Ireland beats England, now dutchie's Oxford is beating Cambridge at the paddling
<Seeker`> haha
<Seeker`> "paddling"
<danfish> :D
<willy_1977> I see it's the same teams in the final of the "paddling" ... again!
<brobostigon> oxford have it.
<danfish> they paddled very well
<brobostigon> lol
<danfish> I never took to it myself - you had to get up at 6am 3 days a week and paddle down the same stretch of river day after day
 * AlanBell is done coding at #nhtg11
<AlanBell> just the presentations to do
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/votegeek/av/calculations.html if you want to play with the stuff I made
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/votegeek/av/presentation.pdf for the presentation
<danfish> very nice AlanBell
<ging> it has added spooky smoke
<DJones> !sound
<danfish> as a pound
<DJones> danfish: Inflation, its Â£1.50 now :)
<danfish> inflation - don't get me started
<danfish> I remember when a pint was 80 new pence
<marxjohnson> ee, when I were a lad it was down the mines if you wanted a pint, we'd dig our own out of the rock
<danfish> we didn't have rock
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Your proggy has just locked up Firefox :-(
<danfish> huh - these amateur coders :p
<daubers> Evening
<willy_1977> daubers: evening
<oimon> evening
<suprengr> o/
<suprengr> anyone know what's happened to the U-UK server [not available]?
<popey> works for me
<daubers> popey: I get server not found...
<popey> when you do what?
<daubers> When I browse to http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/
<oimon> broken for me too
<popey> its ubuntu-uk.org
<popey> not www
<popey> :)
<popey> (and its up)
<oimon> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ubuntu-uk.org
<popey> i am looking at it right now
<popey> and refreshing
<oimon> :P
<jacobw> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ubuntu-uk.org
<jacobw> oh
<popey> its up
<oimon> i blame the protesters
<willy_1977> it's not looking promising here either...
<daubers> popey: Also, it with no www's it directs me to the www version
<gord> www/nowww work fine for me
<popey> honestly, its up
<oimon> still bust
<gord> i believe you, its these other guys i'm not sure about ;)
<willy_1977> down :(
<mgdm> this virgrim media DNS seems not to be able to resolve it
<daubers> If I change my DNS to google it works
<daubers> Looks like the plusnet dns isn't resolving it either
<oimon> using opendns
<mgdm> opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL
<oimon> still broke
<oimon> what does www resolve to?
<popey> Domain Name:UBUNTU-UK.ORG
<popey> Created On:21-Jan-2005 02:27:21 UTC
<popey> Last Updated On:24-Mar-2011 07:36:02 UTC
<popey> helllooooo
<daubers> Heh :)
<gord> detective popey solved the case!
<popey> I blame Daviey
<mgdm> heh
<oimon> trying to setup rsync on my nslu2 while wifey is out
<oimon> gonna lose sleep over this toinght...1hr to be precise
<jacobw> ;)
<willy_1977> hopefully... be back shortly... :/ but I've been messing so it may be a switch the thing off in anger and come back tomorrow affair :D
<suprengr> don't understand how others receiving ok...  "It's not just you! http://ubuntu-uk.org looks down from here."
<oimon> it is here too, but i think it's a DNS problem
<oimon> if someone posts the IP address of the site , that will probably work for us
<suprengr> dns = duff name server ;[
<gord> switch yer dns out to google's dns (or something of equally high quality) - never had a problem with google's dns service
<gord> 8.8.2.2 isn't it?
<daubers> 8.8.8.8
<oimon> using 8.8.8.8: Host www.ubuntu-uk.org not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
<oimon> maybe you have it cached
 * Daviey wonders what he did?
<Daviey> Oh dear...
<Daviey> I've just checked a bunch of sub domains directly against the designated nameservers, and they are all returning null
<Daviey> Either, someone has busted it... or it's an issue the with provider.
<Daviey> I'm banking on the provider.
<Daviey> If it IS working for anyone, it is cached.
<Daviey> The nameservers providing the info are not providing data.
<daubers> \o/
<oimon> i blame the supermoon
<mgdm> Daviey: does it not just need renewed?
<mgdm> Status:TRANSFERPERIOD
<mgdm> Status:RENEWPERIOD
<oimon> btw does ubuntuone work with symlinks yet? i want to keep my liferea config in sync over several machines
<Daviey> mgdm, Expiration Date:21-Jan-2014 02:27:21 UTC
<Daviey> mgdm, the dns servers associated are returning null data.... even if the domain was somehow lost, they should still provide valid data
<mgdm> Daviey: ah
 * suprengr thinks popey has private carrier pigeon U_UK to himself
<oimon> or a /etc/hosts entry
<oimon> or he visits every day, so his cache is up to date
<suprengr> but... <popey> i am looking at it right now
<suprengr> <popey> and refreshing
<Daviey> I missed that quote... but yes, it works in my browser aswell.. but i have it cached.
<suprengr> popey: you got a carrier pidgeon?
<Daviey> Those that cannot load ubuntu-uk.org, please can you try ubuntu-se.org and see if you get the same result please?
<suprengr> Firefox can't find the server at www.ubuntu-se.org.
<Daviey> okay, thanks.
<oimon> Host ubuntu-se.org not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
<Daviey> I *hope* it's a transient error with the DNS provider.
<oimon> dns1.noris.net ..well known DNS provider :P
<oimon> refusing requests
<mgdm> chuck.noris.net will never fail
<oimon> :)
<popey> btw I am using 8.8.8.8 and probably have it cached
<gord> oh lord, the 3ds has a feature that lets you "merge" your face with someone elses. its the most fun i have had in ages because it doesn't work very well :D here is my face "merged" with popular boxer frank bruno http://i.imgur.com/ZDj9a.jpg
<mgdm> that's distinctly terrifying
<oimon> lol 3ds fail
<oimon> try it on a flower
<oimon> i'm sure gimp was supposed to have a unified interface by now :(
<gord> someone has suggested to me arnold cattinator. must make this a reality.
<oimon> reminds me of the 1950s original of the fly
<oimon> the dodgy special effects and the face on the fly
<phonex01> gus i will get crazy
<phonex01> guys help
<phonex01> im using strcpy function in c code and i have " fragmentation fault ??"
<phonex01> what the hell is this error
<mgdm> I think you mean "segmentation fault"
<phonex01> ya
<phonex01> sorry it is segmentation fault
<phonex01> what is this
<phonex01> !
<mgdm> it likely means that you've not malloc()ed any space for the destination string
<bigcalm> mgdm: evening :) Done much WP hacking?
<mgdm> bigcalm: 'lo, and a wee bit, not much
<phonex01> mgdm what do you mean ?
<phonex01> how can i solve that
<bigcalm> I'm trying to fix a plugin by somebody that uses wp_kses_stripslashes() on the output. I was wondering why one would use this function instead of just stripslashes(). The function wp_kses_stripslashes() is leaving escaped apostrophes \' in the output
<mgdm> phonex01: I recommend reading a proper C tutorial
<phonex01> i did
<phonex01> this is the code
<phonex01> char *t1="t1t1t1t1t1t1";
<phonex01> char *t2="t2t2t2t2t2t2";
<phonex01> it is simple !
<mgdm> you're trying to overwrite t2 with t1? that won't work
<mgdm> they're const strings, which means they can't be changed
<xapel> Can anyone perhaps help me with resetting the region on my HP printer?
<phonex01> there is no const identifer ?
<mgdm> the fact that they're declared in that way, with the literal strings in "", means they're const
<phonex01> so what i have to do ?
<mgdm> right, this is a bit off topic, and I'm not best qualified to teach C, but: you'll need to do something like    char *dst = malloc(strlen(t1) + 1);
<gord> phonex01, use strdup. ala: char *t1 = "Hello World!"; char t2 = strdup (t1); - remember to free t2 when you are done
<phonex01> strdup ?
<phonex01> for copying too ?
<mgdm> yeah, assuming if you want a precise copy of the string, you cna use strdup
<phonex01> wait i will try that
<phonex01> can i determine the length ???
<phonex01> i mean how much letters to copy ?
<phonex01> ok it is working fine
<phonex01> but t2 does not have the same pointer as t1 right ???
<phonex01> i mean strdup create new pointer ?? right ?
<mgdm> yes
<phonex01> ok how can i use it for specific # of digits
<phonex01> i mean like strcpy (t1,t2,3) ;
<dwatkins> oh, I guess phonex01 left, then
 * dwatkins just looked-up strncat and wonders if there's a possible issue with buffer overruns with these functions
<silko> Hu
<silko> Hi
<dwatkins> Lo
<silko> anyone use a BT Home Hub with Ubuntu on pc
<Seeker`> silko: yup
<silko> can connect to the hub using wireless but get an error on the web browser saying BT Home Hub cant connect to broadband
<silko> are there some settings on the wireless connections that we need to change
<daftykins> if you're getting a message from the homehub, i'd imagine you're connected fine
<daftykins> silko: open a terminal and ping the router IP
<silko> yep ... home hub has blue constant light
<daftykins> that'll show you're chatting to it fine
<silko> seems its connected to the hub as would not get the message on the browser
<silko> not sure what else could be the prob .... we think constant blue light means Hub has no probs either
<daftykins> have you gotten up the webpage of it?
<daftykins> to look at connection stats etc.
<jacobw> have you restarted the hub?
<daftykins> i've never used one
<jacobw> it can do stupid things
<silko> we had webpage come up , also tried full re boot of Hub and PC
<daftykins> haha
<silko> I am guessing BT will not support Ubuntu on the prob
<silko> dont want to use Windoze
<jacobw> networking is os independent
<silko> so anyone have a BT Hub v2
<jacobw> so you can log in the homehub web interface at 192.168.1.254?
<jacobw> i've got one..
<suprengr> silko: have you *ever* connected through this hub using OS?
<silko> yep can do ... not sure what to do from there
<suprengr> *any OS
<jacobw> silko, try running `ping 208.67.222.222` in a terminal
<jacobw> perhaps this is a DNS issue..
<silko> will try
<Seeker`> silko: does the home hub have a constant blue "B" AND wireless sign?
<silko> yes its constant
<jacobw> silko, sorry, `ping -c 5 208.67.222.222`
<jacobw> what do the last three lines say?
<silko> jacobw, will try it as its on my dads comp but not with me at mo ... what should we see when we try this
<jacobw> 5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received
<zleap> i think ping -c 5 just pings 5 times
<zleap> where as ping ip just keeps going
<silko> ok and if works
<silko> ?
<daftykins> yeah, it's count 5
<daftykins> silko: it's pretty obvious from the feedback you get
<silko> if soemone already uses 10.10 lts on a BT home hub v2 and did not have to change any settings then Im confused
<jacobw> that is a good point
<silko> anyone know of anyone who has
<jacobw> i'm using 10.10 now with a homehub
<jacobw> the settings on my homehub aren't any different to default configuration
<Seeker`> silko: what exactly is the problem you are having? You can't access webpages?
<silko> cant access the internet
<Seeker`> silko: if so, it probably isn't anything to do with the interaction between OS and router
<silko> can access the hub
<Seeker`> pastebin the output of
<Seeker`> tracepath bath.ac.uk
<jacobw> if you can ping a public ip address but not access web pages through a web browser it indicates a DNS misconfiguration
 * suprengr goes bye byes...  1hr less to kip tonight before back on call
<jacobw> which can be rectified by setting 208.67.222.222 as your dns server, which is opendns
<jacobw> bb suprengr
<Seeker`> don't think there is a problem with the BT DNS atm
<silko> ok will try this and pop back morrow if ok ... thanks to all for help
<jacobw> :) no problems
<HazRPG> hi
<jacobw> o/
<HazRPG> I think I've been asleep a lil too long
<HazRPG> jacobw: o/
<jacobw> hehe
<jacobw> well.. good day for it
<HazRPG> not when you loose all of it :P
<Daviey> wow, are we still talking about this?
<HazRPG> talking about what?
 * dwatkins notes that xorg.conf has moved
<daubers> Anyone fancy a trip to the British Library between May and September sometime?
<daubers> New SciFi exhibition
<HazRPG> where is that?
<daftykins> what's a library?
<daubers> London somewhere
<HazRPG> hmm, could be fun
<daubers> http://www.bl.uk/whatson/exhibitions/outofthisworld/outofthisworld.html
<dwatkins> cool, daubers - although I moved to Edinburgh, so will have to pop in when visiting family or something
<daubers> \o/
<HazRPG> daubers: maybe we can bring it up at the next meeting :)
<daubers> sounds like a plan
<daubers> I'll pop it on the Agenda tommorrow
<HazRPG> daubers: \o/
<HazRPG> why delay, due today!
<daubers> HazRPG: Sleepy, just packing up for bed
<daubers> HazRPG: I need to add a couple of things anyway, but they're political and complicated and not for a sleepy head
<HazRPG> heh, fair enough :)
 * HazRPG should really check agenda see if much has been added since he is going to be the one doing it n all
<HazRPG> wow 4 more nights away
<HazRPG> hmm, Caffeine 2.2 doesn't seem to be as good as it use to be at its detection of flash and other fullscreen stuff
<jacobw> Caffeine?
<HazRPG> jacobw: yeah, stops screensaver from activating
<jacobw> I see
<daubers> HazRPG: Done
<HazRPG> daubers: oh, thought you weren't going to till tomorrow
<daubers> HazRPG: Did it now anyway, although the formatting is wrong and I can't see why :(
<HazRPG> daubers: hmm
<daubers> Bah
<daubers> I give up
<daubers> stupid wiki
 * HazRPG tries to see where he stored the bookmark for it
<daubers> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
<HazRPG> this looks about right: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
<HazRPG> daubers: ^^
<HazRPG> oh yeah, that's odd
<daubers> HazRPG: Look at the formatting for the [TOPIC] line of the exhibition thing
<daubers> :)
<HazRPG> not use to doing this... so I'll see if I can fix it :)
<daubers> I had a go, but got fed up quickly
<daubers> It's defo not the wiki word
<daubers> Also note that the line spacing between bullets changes as it goes down the page
<HazRPG> oh yeah
<HazRPG> that could  be what's causing it
 * daubers blames shoddy wiki software
<daubers> also
 * daubers heads to bed
<daubers> Night all o/
<HazRPG> wonder if it's the < > you added that's doing it
<HazRPG> daubers: alright dude, night
<HazRPG> argh!
<HazRPG> someone make it work!
<czajkowski> danfish: heheheh
<HazRPG> silly wiki >_<
<HazRPG> czajkowski: ooo, have you used the wiki before? Maybe you can see something I'm missing?
<czajkowski> which wiki
<HazRPG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda <== that one
<HazRPG> formatting is going funny
<HazRPG> its adding linespaces between bullet points, and is missing out a heading
<czajkowski> hmm
<HazRPG> although, can't see anything wrong with the actual formatting when editing
<czajkowski> cant lot into lp now
<czajkowski> I suspect a space or something is missing or too many
<czajkowski> let me try something
<HazRPG> czajkowski: i can do a pastebin if ya want :)
<czajkowski> no tis fine
<AlanBell> evening all
<HazRPG> AlanBell: evening :)
<HazRPG> doh! I should really get ready... mates leaving do is a foot!
<czajkowski> cant fix it sorry
<AlanBell> what are you doing czajkowski?
<HazRPG> its alright, thanks for trying though :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: daubers added stuff to the wiki, and was having trouble getting the formatting to work properly
<AlanBell> ah ok, well bedtime now I will fix tomorrow if it is still broken then
<HazRPG> cool :)
<HazRPG> thanks dude :)
<HazRPG> I'm going to be doing a review of it later tonight to see if its missing anything
<HazRPG> right, think I'm almost ready to hit the shin dig...
<HazRPG> ah, crud... haven't got anything to take down with me... and tesco's is shut on a Sat. night
<exobuzz> popey, did you get the download ?
<exobuzz> popey, maybe not and perhaps its not ideal to post a link hours before you might be here in the hope you see it in the scrollback ;-)
<HazRPG> exobuzz: could send him an IM :)
<exobuzz> <- lazy
<exobuzz> ill msg him when hes on
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-27
<hamitron> hi guys
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: sup dude
<HazRPG> ah crap, its 12:30am!
<HazRPG> should really be going to my mates leaving do!
<hamitron> nvm him
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> loool
<HazRPG> he's moving down south, he'll live miles away!
<hamitron> where are you?
<HazRPG> can't blame him, he's moving for a better car designing (CAD) job
<HazRPG> cumbria
<HazRPG> border of the scots/england divide
<hamitron> I know where ;/
<hamitron> but I suppose many here don't know of the north
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> right, I'll be back in an hr or two... cos no doubt it'll be ending around then
<hamitron> okies, have fun
<HazRPG> inded
<HazRPG> indeed*
<HazRPG> catch ya later :)
<HazRPG> \o bye all
<HazRPG> oh crud, I should check where his new place is, iirc he moved house about 5 month ago!
<shauno> bit late for a leaving do then
<HazRPG> shauno: didn't get up till 11pm
<shauno> I mean if he moved 5 months ago :p
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> moved to a better area 5 months ago :P
<hamitron> nice toy on boffer today#
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> now he's moving out of the city altogether in a weeks time
<shauno> boffer?
<hamitron> www.boffer.co.uk
<shauno> ah
<hamitron> upgrading my main comp
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> well, dev comp
<HazRPG> 4th one on the right... I think I can remember that...
<HazRPG> *poofs into a patch of smoke into the car*
<HazRPG> \o later
<hamitron> drinking an driving is bad
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> and*
<HazRPG> hamitron: I barely drink dude :P
<hamitron> ah, k
<HazRPG> only drink on things like birthdays, holidays or festivals
<HazRPG> but when I drink... I can REALLY drink
<HazRPG> although, trying to keep up with my dad is a bad plan
<HazRPG> ends up into a drinking competition and we both can barely stand up
<hamitron> I never get like that tbh
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> like to retain ability to do as I please
<HazRPG> heh, I only do it on holidays - and for some reason when me and my dad do it when never get handovers
<HazRPG> s/when/we*
<HazRPG> hamitron: so do I, that's the reason why I don't drink often... at most maybe 1 drink usually
<HazRPG> anywho... ofski
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> o/
 * hamitron spanks Azelphur
<hamitron> sort out the comp earlier?
<penguin42> interesting
<hamitron> penguin42: ?
<penguin42> the time on my panel is showing 01:00:54
<penguin42> but date is correctly showing 02:00
<hamitron> probably something to do with the hour number not getting updated each second?
<matti> ;]
<penguin42> it's 2 mins in and it's still there
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> update on the hour my guess
<penguin42> problem is this machine isn't up to date - it's a week or so behind on natty so I guess it doesn't amke sense to repor tit
<hamitron> maybe worth checking bug reports, see if it has been reported
<hamitron> not the sort of thing that shows up
<hamitron> but there again, for an hour, it is not worth getting %h variable each min
<hamitron> if that is the problem
<shauno> I kinda doubt that's it
<shauno> you wouldn't usually write "updated the seconds 60 times.  then update the minutes and update the seconds another 60 times .."
<hamitron> maybe not
<shauno> you just keep doing strftime() on a regular basis
<hamitron> just get a time at load time, than move it each second?
<hamitron> see, I'd want to limit the call to such a function
<shauno> I wouldn't.  that's what it's there for :)
<hamitron> how often would it be called?
<shauno> if you're showing seconds, atleast once a second
<hamitron> suppose it isn't that heavy ;)
<shauno> it's not as lossy as it sounds because libc is pretty much guaranteed to be in memory somewhere
<hamitron> if it is too heavy for a system, that is the least of that persons worries
<hamitron> ah, so it won't need to calc the format from the raw time in seconds?
<shauno> well, that's what strftime does
<hamitron> it is that conversion I would want to restrict
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I suppose it is not a worry on modern machines such petty calcs
<shauno> it wasn't a concern on my 16MHz amiga, I can't see why it'd be a concern on anything else made in the last 20 years
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> (and anything slower than 16MHz has no place running gnome-panel :p )
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> hahaha
<hamitron> that thin client pc I ordered sounds fast, after you mentioning this
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> hehe
<shauno> my only problem with that would be that it's using an embedded linux, so it's a bit more difficult to just stick whatever you want on it
<shauno> but for Â£8, what's the worst that can happen
<hamitron> I intend to run embedded linux myself
<hamitron> tbh, won't affect me as much as a lot of users in here
<hamitron> I am considering replacing my p120 with 24mb ram with it
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> might keep an eye on that one, but that want Â£8 just to deliver here :/
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> another option is just play with it and electronics
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and another.... to use it as my main system
<hamitron> make everything else feel kinda cool
<hamitron> tbh, I could of ordered 10 of them, and given each its own task :/
<shauno> lol
<hamitron> but gotta control ones self ;)
<shauno> chilly tonight :/  downside of having clear skies
<hamitron> I am glad for it
<hamitron> my poor 350W psu is hurting with one of the comps here
<shauno> sounds about right.  myself, I'm warmblooded :p
<hamitron> (getting a bit hot)
<shauno> can't believe it's 3am already.  I've done absolutely nothing productive at all yet
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> other than spend money
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> kinda stuck though
<hamitron> wanna move files off a comp with a scabby RAID 0 setup
<hamitron> but network sharing is messed up
<shauno> I meant to take a bash at my old tower tonight, then realised I don't have any wired keyboards in the house atm :/
<hamitron> and a comp which was gonna be used as temp storage has stopped working
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I don't have any wireless ones ;)
<shauno> I've just got one that I drag from machine to machine, but I left it at work because the one they gave me is pants
<hamitron> my new keyboard is one of those skype ones off boffer
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> pack of 5 :/
<hamitron> so plenty to nibble at
<hamitron> I want one :D http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lower-Upper-case-USB-PS2-Coloured-PC-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ270688894210QQcategoryZ33964QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8021067016821701839#ht_1499wt_905
<hamitron> crap
<hamitron> grand prix tomorrow
<hamitron> in 2 hours
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> should of had an early night
<hamitron> all nighter time
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> 3 hours I mean
<shauno> 3's enough for a nap :)
<hamitron> I'd never bother getting up
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> part of me wants to not watch it
<hamitron> and sleepy and in bed would decide on it
<shauno> why does telly have to be so pants at 4am
<HazRPG> shauno: cos it just is :P
<HazRPG> shauno: iplayer ;)
<HazRPG> etc
<HazRPG> also, hi :)
<shauno> iplayer doesn't work here :(
<shauno> 4od does, but bleh
<shauno> aww, calibre's content server doesn't work on ipv6.
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> for the install terminal command?
<shauno> it has a content server that works with the ebook reader on my phone
<shauno> (connect/share in the toolbar, start/stop content server).  servers up http on 8080, but with a shedload of metadata in the html, so my phone can parse it as a content source
<shauno> erm, *serves up
<shauno> it works on http://127.0.0.1:8080/ but not http://[::1]:8080/, so I can't reach it without port forwarding  (I can reach my laptop via v6, but v4 has to go thru NAT)
<shauno> (not sure how much sense I'm making)
<shauno> HazRPG: Don't tell me you fell asleep already
<HazRPG> oh heh sorry, mates round... we're eating pizza :)
<shauno> Ah
<HazRPG> oh, that's random...
<HazRPG> think that's really calibre's fault? Or a different bug?
<HazRPG> surely it would be using (java?) libraries to create that web-server thing
<shauno> I'm not quite sure.  all the python's compiled so it's difficult to peek at
<HazRPG> oh heh, course its python not java
<shauno> $ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *py | wc -l
<shauno>        5
<shauno> $ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *pyo | wc -l
<shauno>     2198
<shauno> :(
<HazRPG> src is found on the site if ya really want to peak into it
<MartijnVdS> \o/ F1
<shauno> it just tries to listen on 0.0.0.0 .. I'm not sure why that'd stop it answering ::1 :/
<shauno> will see if I can break it when this movie's finished :)
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> guessing your running off downstairs to watch something?
<shauno> Sorta
<MartijnVdS> shauno: IPv4 vs IPv6. Try listening on ::
<MartijnVdS> (if you listen on v6, v4 should work, other way around not so much)
<MartijnVdS> (because ipv4 addresses fit in the struct sockaddr for v6, but not the other way around)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: see man 7 ipv6 and man 7 ip
<shauno> good lord, it is that easy
<shauno> had to remove the .pyo to get it to use the .py instead, but it's answering now
 * MartijnVdS feels like factbot ;)
<shauno> :D
 * shauno pet pet factbot
<shauno> that's fantastic.  now my phone treats the contents of calibre as if they're already on the phone
<MartijnVdS> heh, RTL (Dutch F1 broadcaster) have an HD channel with the SD feed
<MartijnVdS> *switch to BBC HD*
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> I'd recommend telling the calibre people about this, so that they can fix it :)
<HazRPG> even though it is just one line :P
<MartijnVdS> The calibre people are very good at bugfixy things
<shauno> I'm not sure it would be one line to fix properly
<MartijnVdS> listening on :: might not work if your OS doesn't support ipv6
<shauno> I don't think listening on :: would work if they didn't have v6 loaded?  so you'd need to catch & fallback
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<MartijnVdS> though people should really start enabling v6 now v4 is running out
<HazRPG> oh, well yeah... but I mean it would be nice if it was added - plus I doubt the catch for figuring out if they have ipv6 loaded won't be that hard
<shauno> it shouldn't be, I just need to find it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it ran out ages ago :P they're currently just retracting extra unused IP's from uni's etc
<MartijnVdS> Least you could do is suggest it as a fix, then have them really fix it :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: No, even that ran out now :)
<shauno> there's likely already a catch in case something else is already listening on that port.  just need one more condition there
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.
<shauno> msft just bought a block off nortel
<MartijnVdS> but they still have to prove they're going to use them all within a few years
<MartijnVdS> or they'll have to give them back to ARIN
<shauno> 666,624 addresses for $7.5 USD.  over $10 per address.
<MartijnVdS> rules are stricter now
<shauno> er, $7.5M
<shauno> that's a clear indication that the writing is on the wall.  that's not a stupid amount of addresses for say, an isp.  it is a stupid amount of money
<MartijnVdS> I'm dual-stack atm
<MartijnVdS> I could disable IPv4 and still do most things (vps, facebook, google/gmail/youtube/etc., most Dutch news sites, Dutch govt, all have v6)
<shauno> I'm using he.net at home, but since I get v6 on work's wifi, I'm trying to use it as much as possible for phone<>home  (And vps, which has 6 native)
<neuro> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<neuro> i take it somone's noticed *.ubuntu-uk.org is fecked?
<shauno> I hadn't, but it does indeed seem to be unreachable here
<shauno> oh, there it goes
<shauno> iiinteresting
<HazRPG> morning
<HazRPG> plant.ubuntu-uk.org works fine here
<neuro> [07:14]  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.
<neuro> MartijnVdS: you know that RIPE got allocated a /8 along with the other four RIRs on 3rd feb?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yes, but they aren't getting any more
<MartijnVdS> because there aren't any more
<neuro> i know that
<shauno> there aren't anymore to get.  that's why the last ones were handed out like that
<neuro> but that's 16.7m addresses
<neuro> plus however many they still have to allocate within their pre-existing blocks
<MartijnVdS> neuro: That's one for everyone in the Netherlands :)
<neuro> it's not "there's no addresses left", it's "there's no spare addresses to be granted to RIRs to then be allocated to LIRs to then be allocated to end users"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's "Stage 1 is burned out, we're now burning stage 2"
<MartijnVdS> anyway, enabling ipv6 is becoming a smarter move every day :)
<shauno> I just see it as common sense to be on the ball while there's still time to play with it
<shauno> rather than reacting once things start getting tight(er)
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how much will break on "IPv6 day" (June 8th)
<neuro> probably only poorly configured clients
<neuro> "and nothing of value was lost"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: broken/old DSL routers might not help
<HazRPG> wow, ipv6 day is june 8th?
<HazRPG> as in when they flip the switch?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://isoc.org/wp/worldipv6day/
<neuro> i doubt routers will be much of a problem, clients handling AAAA answers for name resolution may be more of an issue
<neuro> HazRPG: it's just a one-day test
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://test-ipv6.com/
<shauno> there's no switch to be flipped.  ipv6 day is a bunch of big sites throwing it open to see how much it hurts
<shauno> 6 is designed for a gradual transition.  it's not like going from ncp to ip overnight :)
<neuro> ncp->tcp was a gradual transition too tho iirc
<neuro> we just remember it as a cut off because there was an actual cut off date and event
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I get 10/10 on both ipv4 and ipv6 on that page :)
<neuro> ipv4 will be around for decades yet
<HazRPG> I get 10/10 v4, and 0/10 v6 xD
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time to get your v6 on ;)
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure my ISP is switching straight to ipv6 soon though
 * neuro gets 10/10 + 9/10
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, they'll go dual-stack
<MartijnVdS> neuro: 9? why 9?
<neuro> v6ns bad apparently
<neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com
<neuro> Host aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<neuro> which is odd because my local resolvers do v6 no problem
<neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.google.com
<neuro> ipv6.google.com is an alias for ipv6.l.google.com.
<neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.l.google.com
<neuro> ipv6.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:8003::63
<MartijnVdS> neuro: dig +trace ?
<neuro> interesting, that worked
<neuro> broken tool, i claim the moral victory :)
<shauno> odd.  works here
<neuro> MartijnVdS: just found a stat on http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/faq ... RIPE have the equivalent of 4 /8's left, ~ 75m addresses
<MartijnVdS> Based on current calculations, we can predict that the RIPE NCC's current reserves should last until the end of 2011.
<MartijnVdS> (according to that page)
<neuro> depends on the behaviour of LIRs
<neuro> and of ISPs
<MartijnVdS> neuro: the rate of assignment was increasing last I know
<HazRPG> gotta remember, mobile phones use ipv4 too ;)
<neuro> usually behind NAT tho
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Mine is dual-stack on wifi :)
<neuro> my voda 3g gets a 10/8 address
<MartijnVdS> UMTS (3G) is v4-only OR v6-only (you can choose at connection time), so that's useless :)
<MartijnVdS> afaik LTE is going to be dual-stack
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I doubt your EDGE/3g/3.5g/4g/GSM/Whatever... uses ipv6 thought
<HazRPG> though*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it can.. but then you can't use v4 at the same time
<HazRPG> ouch
<shauno> you'd think mobiles would be at the front of v6
<HazRPG> lucky you, we don't get the choice :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they've supported v6 for ages, carriers just suck :)
<HazRPG> shauno: you'd think, with mobile phones being the one wasting a majority of IP's
<shauno> I know, mine does v6 on wifi :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.linkedin.com/answers/technology/wireless/TCH_WIR/684164-17668223
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so does mine
<MartijnVdS> android \o/
<HazRPG> I'm on android... so I would /assume/ mine does
<shauno> that's why I wanted calibre to answer v6, so I can reach it from outside my home
<neuro> HazRPG: what carriers do you know of who are deploying non-RFC1918 IPs to handsets?
<HazRPG> I don't even know what that means xD :D
<neuro> well like i said
<shauno> I believe mine gets a 'real ip'
<neuro> on voda, i get a 10/8 IP
<neuro> 10.x.x.x
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Vodafone Business in the Netherlands ("laptop 3G sticks")
<neuro> i'm behind NAT, so i'm not using a "real IP"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that gives me a real IP
<HazRPG> I get a real IP on mine too
<HazRPG> 74.x.x.x
<neuro> MartijnVdS: so that's probably only a small subset compared to consumer use
<shauno> I get a 'real ip' on both my phone, & my 3g dongle
<neuro> which carriers?
<HazRPG> giffgaff
<HazRPG> (sort of o2?)
<shauno> o2.ie
<HazRPG> shauno: do you get text-receipts? (i.e. when someone gets a text you've sent, you get told if its actually been sent)
<shauno> never tried
<HazRPG> because I have to type in a code at the start of my text to be able to get them (instead of the standard method used by phones in the options), and it sends you a text saying it was sent... instead of notifying the phone to update the text to say (sent successfully @ <time>)
<HazRPG> which I think sucks
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ouch
<MartijnVdS> that's how it used to work in the netherlands
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o2 do it via a hack... its retarded :/
<MartijnVdS> Now everyone uses the flag in the phone settings
<HazRPG> o2 are tight barstools
<HazRPG> sadly giffgaff uses their network :/ (sort of like a reseller)
<HazRPG> annoyed me for a few days when my phone stopped showing the blue mail icon :(
<HazRPG> because I thought no one was getting my texts!
<HazRPG> shauno: how you getting your ipv6?
<shauno> at home, he.net
<neuro> shauno: from what i can tell, o2.ie NAT, how are you determining you get a real IP?
<neuro> because an external test like whatsmyip.org will just show the address of the gateway you're NATting through :)
<shauno> neuro: just trying to figure that out now :)
<neuro> hehe
<shauno> I've a feeling you may be right, as the IP I see connecting to my vps isn't the same as the one I see doing whatismyip.org
<shauno> but I had ssh inbound working when I used to have it jailbroken, which doesn't make sense
<neuro> odd
<shauno> yeah, I'm getting 10.53. on my phone, but 62.40. on my dongle
<shauno> funky.  I'm positive I used to be reachable on my phone
<neuro> :)
<shauno> also, bug 743486  :)  fun way to spend 7am on a sunday
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 743486 in calibre "library/server/ doesn't listen on ipv6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743486
<shauno> (calibre's website points you to lp, so that is upstream, not the ubuntu maintainer)
<shauno> I'd try to offer a patch, but difficult to test .. I can't turn v6 off in osx
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo
<HazRPG> xD dead funny!
<HazRPG> (defcon 18 related)
<shauno> Doesn't look like my laptop will be here until the 5th :(
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> omg! lmao! you should really check that video out! xD XD
<shauno> man I hate that.  get sidetracked by irc, go back to movie, don't want to rewind because I'll find out who kills who :(
<HazRPG> ??
<HazRPG> oh, guessing you watched that vid I sent?
<HazRPG> funny though, right :D?
<HazRPG> never steal a hackers computer :D
 * HazRPG pokes MartijnVdS to watch the video above
<MartijnVdS> I've seen it a while back
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> lol
<shauno> Feeling I've seen it too. Got sidetracked trying to help someone figure out how to turn bsd device names into osx networkservices :/
<kvarley> Which video editor will allow me to take a video and add an image border to it in order to replace the black bars which appear on youtube?
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> if you output proper 16:9 video, youtube won't add black bars :)
<MartijnVdS> If your video is 4:3 (for example), you'd have to decode, add a background, then re-encode
<MartijnVdS> that's going to be very lossy (potentially)
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: I know, my monitor is 16:10 and I captured a video which is 16:10 but can't re-record the video so I want to add an image border to fill the black bars and make the resolution 16:9
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Hhhmmmm ok, I may have to settle for black bars then :/
<MartijnVdS> can't pitivi do it?
<MartijnVdS> with a transparent png/image (leave the 16:10 bit transparent, draw in the rest)
<MartijnVdS> then render?
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Not sure I'll try it now, thank you
<HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I did/didn't like watching defcon videos xD
<HazRPG> scary seeing some of the hacks they get up to ...
<HazRPG> yet still awesome at the same time
<HazRPG> awesome -> wow I didn't know you could do that, I want to try! Or at least learn the process
<HazRPG> scary -> this could happen to me one day!
<shauno> Proving it can happen us the first step in making sure it doesnt :)
<HazRPG> true...
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Doesn't work because it stretches the video from its original dimensions to fill the space
<HazRPG> I think watching some of these videos has inspired me to make sure my devices have a way of telling me where they are
<shauno> I did the same; setup prey (preyproject.org) but using my own webserver instead of theirs so I can log everything
<shauno> err, .com rather
<ali1234> you should crop rather than add your own border
<ali1234> kdenlive is supposed to be the best video editor
<MartijnVdS> too bad it's got a k in the name
<ali1234> yeah it's kde
<MartijnVdS> kde would be so much better if they didn't start EVERY program name with a k
<HazRPG> as a thing, I mainly dislike kde
<ali1234> the gnome design ethos doesn't really work when it comes to productivity software
<ali1234> eg pitivi
<HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
<ali1234> imagine if the gnome design methodology was applied to photoshop or premier or after effects
<ali1234> the first thing they would do is remove the 90% of the features that "most" people don't use
<ali1234> but the problem is that these programs are not designed for "most" people
<ali1234> so the result would be that people who actually know what they are doing can no longer use photoshop
<ali1234> now, instead of having a solid base of professional users, photoshop would be competing with the likes of paint shop pro, and ms paint
<ali1234> since it's not designed for this market place, it would slowly die
<HazRPG> ... hmm really?
<ali1234> yes really
<HazRPG> GIMP I'm pretty sure follows gnomes design... yet still has a lot of functionally that *most* people wouldn't use
<ali1234> gimp doesn't follow gnome design at all
<ali1234> gimp does whatever it wants
<ali1234> to make a car analogy it would be like porche saying "from now on we only make family cars and SUVs"
<HazRPG> oh
<shauno>  gimp doesn't really follow anyone's design.  last time I used it, it couldn't even spell HIG.
<ali1234> well i installed kdenlive, turns out it sucks
<ali1234> now it's got completely confused, forgotten all clips, and won't let me do anything
<ali1234> looks like cinelerra is still the best editor and blender is still the best compositor
<MartijnVdS> I just let other people make videos
<ali1234> unfortunately they are both close to impossible to use
<HazRPG> blender isn't that bad
<HazRPG> for 3D at least
<HazRPG> (didn't know you could use blender as a compositor for videos
<HazRPG> )
<ali1234> most people don't
<ali1234> the Ui for it is buried so deep
<MartijnVdS> also, it's not really advertised
<ali1234> you are unlikely to ever find it without a tutorial
<MartijnVdS> When I hear "blender" I think "3d"
<MartijnVdS> not "video"
<HazRPG> agreed
<ali1234> even though the name "blender" is a specific reference to it's ability as a compositor
<HazRPG> yeah, but you still think of it for animation of 3D objects - not for a stream of videos
<ali1234> it's because that's what it looks like it is when you load it up
<ali1234> when you use it as a compositor you essentially animate movie clips in the same 3d space
<ali1234> ie mapped on a plane
<ali1234> so "what would it looks like if it looked like a compositor?"
<ali1234> (it would look the same)
<ali1234> pitivi doesn't seem to understand alpha channels at all
<AlanBell> http://votegeek.org.uk/ how does that look for people?
<ali1234> still crashes firefox
<AlanBell> no, it doesnt
<AlanBell> it takes a *long* time in firefox
<ali1234> and it goes grey and stops responding to user input
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> and then after about 20 seconds i have to click "continue"
<AlanBell> sit cross legged, shut your eyes and hum
<AlanBell> and then press continue
<ali1234> yeah that doesn't work
<ali1234> pressed continue 5 times now
<HazRPG> works here
<HazRPG> chrome
<ali1234> why is it so slow?
<AlanBell> ali1234: let it rock on
<AlanBell> it is doing a *lot* of calculations
<AlanBell> doesn't take very long on Google Chrome on a core i7 Macbook Pro
<ali1234> sure, as long as it runs fast on your computer, that makes it ok...
<HazRPG> Google Chrome + i7-930 + 6GB RAM ;) (custom build)
<HazRPG> although, I'm currently processing a dump of wiki in the background too - so it crunched those numbers pretty well/fast :P!
<AlanBell> but on my little i3 Ubuntu laptop it takes about a minute in firefox
<HazRPG> considering*
<ali1234> takes about 15 seconds in chromium here
<ali1234> or about a minute in firefox
<ali1234> hard to tell when firefox is spamming me with "this script is running slooooow" warnings
<ali1234> have you considered putting a timer in it so it doesn't lock up the browser?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I would like to do that
<ali1234> which is the slow function?
<ali1234> swingometer()?
<AlanBell> I have been reading about web worker things, but just a yield or something would be good
<ali1234> javascript doesn't have yield as such
<AlanBell> well the outer loop goes round 3916 times
<ali1234> what you do is make a function that does a "bit" of the work and then run it repeatedly from a timer
<ali1234> ok, perfect
<AlanBell> and for each one of those it does 531 calculations
<ali1234> instead of a for() look, you use a timer() that gets rerun until all work is done
<AlanBell> and each one of them is done three times
<ali1234> that way it does some work, then services some browser stuff, and it doesn't lock up
<AlanBell> how do I know how long the timer should run?
<ali1234> that's the best part
<ali1234> you don't
<ali1234> you restart the timer when the function finishes
<ali1234> with time = 0.0001 seconds or whatever
<ali1234> that makes it effectively identical to a yield
<AlanBell> oh ok, so it will still run as fast
<AlanBell> got an example of that?
<ali1234> pretty much yes
<AlanBell> and it should draw the dots one at a time so you see it doing stuff
<ali1234> yes it should do
<ali1234> it will probably be a bit slower, but it won't "crash"
<ali1234> you may need to use a closure to construct the parameter
<ali1234> or perhaps tail recursion
<shauno> "If you don't have a shiny new computer".... should I not be trying this on my phone?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: is it shiny and new?
<shauno> oh, it doesn't work on the phone :(
<shauno> the 'mobile theme' turns off resizing, so the content is outside the viewable area; and the link to turn the mobile theme off, doesn't :)
<shauno> oh well.  I was looking forward to blowing my phone up :D
<AlanBell> shauno: sorry, no phone explosions today
<shauno> does it give any indication that it's done?
 * AlanBell reads http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/1506-yielding-with-javascript-timers/
<ali1234> this script confuses me
<AlanBell> shauno: big triangle with colours in it
<shauno> ah, ok
<AlanBell> ali1234: the functions are not in a logical order and there are unused functions still there
<shauno> wasn't sure what I was expecting on the first run
<BigRedS> hardware is so much more expensive than softwarei
<BigRedS> oops
<ali1234> AlanBell: specifically the swingometer() function
<BigRedS> wrong window
<AlanBell> shauno: expect something like this http://votegeek.org.uk/the-shape-of-our-democracy/
<shauno> seems to work fine here, but that'd be my only suggestion.  the only way I can tell it's done what it's meant to, is the "Safari is no longer responding because of a script on the webpage âVote Geekâ" dialogs stop popping up
<AlanBell> ali1234: some of that came from here http://refusingthedefault.blogspot.com/p/alternative-vote-swingometer.html
<willy_1977> goo morning...
<shauno> some kinda green light to say no, it didn't break, it's all finished  would be welcome on something that stressy
<willy_1977> good*
<AlanBell> which does a few more calculations than I wanted to do, and I didn't get round to fully stripping out the ones I don't want
<ali1234> why does it go through every possible share of votes?
<ali1234> surely the point is you enter the vote share you want
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> you enter the transfer rules you want
<AlanBell> the grid represents every possible vote share
<AlanBell> and the shape of it changes based on what people do with their second choice
<ali1234> oh i get it
<ali1234> that's why the old chart is so much faster right?
<AlanBell> the old chart was pre-calculated
<AlanBell> it just loads the svg
<ali1234> really?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: just a design issue... but might be worth making the dash ( - ) in the centre... I originally looked at it and though "why isn't there a box for conservative?" and why is there a dash after conservative... later realised after analysing it a bit that there was dashes on the others too
<ali1234> i thought i remembered entering different numbers on it
<AlanBell> HazRPG: yeah, will do
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> daubster
<ali1234> hmm are you assuming that 100% of people actually use the second choice?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: having it all centred would look nicer, but not fully necessary... the dashes though are just confusing if they're not centred
<ali1234> cos i would expect it to be closer to about 20%...
<ali1234> ah, the "nowhere colun"
<ali1234> *column
<AlanBell> yeah, the nowhere column is the remainder
<AlanBell> most people doing a minor party vote will use the second choice
<daubers> Hooray \o/ czajkowski fixed my formatting issues. Thank you :)
<AlanBell> they will vote 1)Green 2)libDem etc
<AlanBell> or 1)ukip 2)con
<ali1234> but that's only about 10% of people
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> I would expect the "nowhere" value to be lower for "other" than for the major parties
<ali1234> nah
<ali1234> conservative voters won't vote for anyone else
<shauno> I tried to boot linux on my palm tungsten, and I do believe I've killed it :)
<ali1234> labour might though
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, the N/A is a better choice :)
<ali1234> how do i interpret these results anyway?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/votegeek.png <== I think that would look better, but just my thoughts :) (you'll notice my chrome-fu is also in there at the bottom right)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: the bit I added is highlighted
<HazRPG> however, not sure if that would mess up other things
<HazRPG> you'll know your code better than me :)
<popey> you dont have enough tabs open HazRPG
<HazRPG> popey: don't I?
<ali1234> why is it green?
<HazRPG> ali1234: it is?
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> oh you mean the theme?
<HazRPG> its an android based theme
<ali1234> doesn't it clash with all the rest of your OS?
<HazRPG> the rest of my o/s is grey
<HazRPG> popey: I'm usually worse than this for tabs
<HazRPG> but hey, that's why we have tab-scroll in ubuntu :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/GoogleChromeAndroidTheme.jpg
<HazRPG> ooo winner, finally uploaded all my pictures to picasa web
<MartijnVdS> Speaking of pictures
<MartijnVdS> Might go out with the ol'50D later
<HazRPG> think there's like 500 pictures in this one album alone >_<
<HazRPG> 50D?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_50D
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooo, you like photos too! Check out my few attempts at panoramic views! https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qTJqW8B4beWcOMr2_J0_D0Sln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink
<HazRPG> that's just using a built in function inside the camera!
<daubers> Ooooh, speaking of photo's I need to sort the ones I took yesterday
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: cool
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that was the view outside my hotel window in the philippines :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157613473805120/
<HazRPG> not sure if it shows the meta data publicly, but it'll show ya the camera & settings I used
 * willy_1977 is trying to get used to unity...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: made those with autopano/hugin
<MartijnVdS> a Fuji Finepix
<daubers> hugin \o/
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: although, what's with the black squares?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: That's when you don't have pictures to cover that area of the panorama
<MartijnVdS> most people cut them off, but I liked this one :)
<HazRPG> heh I had to google hugin and autopano to figure what you meant
<HazRPG> but yeah, that's pretty awesome :P
<HazRPG> I had to use a mix of a steady hand and a tripod to do some of my attempts
<MartijnVdS> I did those by hand
<MartijnVdS> hugin auto-rotates pictures that are "off"
<daubers> hugin is magic and witchcraft combined
<MartijnVdS> and mono
<HazRPG> I was so impressed with my panorama skills, I ended up taking my portable tripod I bought while I was over there all the time and tried to take as many as I could possibly do without getting bored :P
 * daubers sets hugin to start stitching
<AlanBell> HazRPG: thanks, I will put that in
<AlanBell> ali1234: that is kind of my point, the people voting for the minor parties in the "other" space are the ones most likely to use their alternative voting options
<AlanBell> the major party voters will be more likely to vote 1)con 2)nothing
<ali1234> ok, i've timerized this
<ali1234> it's messed up though
<ali1234> in a rather amusing way
<ali1234> the dots go outside the triangle now
<ali1234> ah i forgot to set the inner loop counter back to zero
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> I have to go to a kiddie birthday party now, will hack it this evening
<popey> cake
<daubers> where?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: AlanBell's place ;)
<willy_1977> someone mention cake?
 * daubers goes to get the car keys
<ali1234> ah it's supposed to start at 1% not 0 % too
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, for historic reasons
<ali1234> ok i think it's working properly now
<HazRPG> I see cake!?
<AlanBell> the old swingometer didn't work with values of 0, this one could do it
 * AlanBell heads out
<HazRPG> AlanBell: oh, you mean the centre code?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: winner :D
<ali1234> i hope you realise i'm going to have to indent all this code properly too
<ali1234> trailing whitespace everywhere
<willy_1977> ali1234: good on you, nothing wrong with a good code indentation...
<willy_1977> :)
<daubers> HazRPG: Yesterdays panorama :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5563914962/
<willy_1977> daubers: that's a nice shot
<HazRPG> willy_1977, ali1234: Agreed... was half-tempted myself!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: bit grey -- blame the weather?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: More to do with my eyes these days :(
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: be fair man, the caption said "sunny day in reading" ... still grey hues :p
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you have grey eyes?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: No, just struggle to focus properly through glasses then through camera
<daubers> Makes getting light levels correct a bit ... dodgy
<MartijnVdS> ah, I know the feeling
<MartijnVdS> glasses--
<willy_1977> should be for drinking out of...
<MartijnVdS> I use Live View a lot now.. if it's sharp at the "Live View" 10x zoom level, it's sharp :)
<daubers> yesterday was the first time I went out with recent eye changes
<daubers> went out to take photos after prescription changes
<daubers> that sounds better
<daubers> MartijnVdS: The 1000D live view thing is a bit pants
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you had new eyeballs screwed in? :P
<MartijnVdS> On the 50d it's acceptable
<daubers> MartijnVdS: No, they've just gone more rugby ball shaped in the past 12 months
<MartijnVdS> ah, annoying
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning MartijnVdS :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning \o/
<HazRPG> daubers: delayed response... but... yeah that is mega awesome dude :D
<HazRPG> daubers: (picture you linked)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, :)
<HazRPG> daubers: heh, I almost thought you had new eyeballs fitted in too with the way you were saying stuff :P
<HazRPG> daubers, MartijnVdS: also, if glasses are annoying while taking snaps - try contacts for when taking photos or something
<HazRPG> I know they're a pain to put in though at first...
<daubers> HazRPG: Can't stand contacts because of my astigmatisn
<daubers> astigmatism even
<MartijnVdS> I tried contacts for when I'm running
<daubers> they make me want to scratch my eyeballs out with the nearest scrapy impliment :)
<MartijnVdS> but even after a month it took half an hour to get them in
<MartijnVdS> so I gave up
<HazRPG> I've seen people get to the point where they can just like go *plonk* and they're in
<HazRPG> daubers: ah that makes sense I guess
<MartijnVdS> I'd get them in wrongly (not "centered"), or folded
<OmNomDeBonBon> VdS = Van der Sar?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> not all Dutch people have the same last name you know :P
<HazRPG> hmm, ever get the impression that the brain is technically dual-core :P
<OmNomDeBonBon> But you know Edwin van der Sar right?
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Everyone in the Netherlands knows him.
<OmNomDeBonBon> I mean personally.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Just like everyone in the UK knows the queen ;)
<ali1234> according to the bbc the census has "no questions on income, sexual orientation or the nature of any disability"
<OmNomDeBonBon> I don't know the Queen.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: or just simple SMP.
<ali1234> this is false, there is a question about income and a question about long term disability
<OmNomDeBonBon> The brain is more like two sockets linked by QPI/HT.
<OmNomDeBonBon> But they aren't symmetrical sockets.
<OmNomDeBonBon> You can actually cut the connections between the left and right brain.
<OmNomDeBonBon> You end up with one half of your body defying your will.
<OmNomDeBonBon> They used to do that as a treatment for epilepsy.
<HazRPG> yeah, but if you cut them... your vision for a start would be a bit... erm... odd
<HazRPG> considering each side of the brain processes each eye individually and then connects them up together via the brains join
<shauno> I have to share this for the Android fans; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUwqxHpXMY  (since we're already OT, I don't feel too bad :)
<HazRPG> actually that would be pretty cool (and weird) if you cut the join, and suddenly you could see two images!
<HazRPG> shauno: .... is that actually a robot inside!
<ali1234> oh actually, my bad, it asks you for number of hours worked, not income
<ali1234> and the question about disability is a yes/no
<HazRPG> shauno: I don't know whether that is cool... or weird xD!
<shauno> neither do I : )
<OmNomDeBonBon> Haha that vid's awesome.
<HazRPG> guess that's one way to grab attention
<brobostigon> suggestions of something useful to do this afternoon.?
<HazRPG> 1) loud music, android dancing, hot chick in the booth (check); 2) .....*shrug*....; 3) PROFIT!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: depends on the whether I guess?
<ali1234> it's sort of like a cross between mr blobby and dusty bin
<shauno> aye.  but it can move
<brobostigon> HazRPG: kinda sunny.but cool.
<shauno> Mr blobby danced about as gracefully as .. I do.
<HazRPG> erm... picnic \o/
<daubers> BBQ \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i had no initial plan to leave home really.
<HazRPG> did mr blobby dance? I thought he just jerked around like it had been electrocuted
<HazRPG> brobostigon: what daubers said then :D
<brobostigon> HazRPG: bbq, hmm.
<daubers> bah, why does video playback cause really weird things to happen with inotify
<HazRPG> why do most videos on youtube show "related: Rebecca Black - Friday" ......... >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 4chan?
<HazRPG> its almost as bad as having the radio on just seeing that link
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You mean they keep watching this video?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, and then another so it "links"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Also... wow 55.6M views of this video :/ with like 936K dislikes xD
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Apparently, people don't like Fridays
<popey> http://www.neatorama.com/2011/03/25/robotic-bird-flies-like-a-bird-does/
<popey> wow
 * brobostigon shakes fist at Xorg for gpu hang, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: shake at intel, not xorg
 * brobostigon shakes fist at intel (xorg-xserver-video-intel) for gpu hang, :(
<HazRPG> popey: win
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apparently not... I have a feeling that its 55M views because of 4chan + rick-roll type effect
<HazRPG> I have a feeling it'll be called "becca-roll"
<shauno> oh sweet.  we will one day have ornithopters :)
<popey> the army might :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> bird-like planes for commercial use ftw! (hopefully)
<HazRPG> they could call it concord 2.0!
 * HazRPG misses concord :(
<shauno> for some reason the first time I read that, I read "big-bird-like".  I've no idea where my head was going with that one
<HazRPG> I stopped collecting plane-related stuff after concord was taken off the air (sorta speak)
<HazRPG> shauno: heh :P
<HazRPG> apparently you have kids-shows on the brain :P
<HazRPG> think it would be hard for me to create my own repo?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: using a ppa, or yourself?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are several tools to make that easy
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mini-dinstall - daemon for updating Debian packages in a repository
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: reprepro - Debian package repository producer
<HazRPG> just thinking of hosting my own repo up of commonly installed software I normally do, so each upgrade I do (usually through alt disc via fresh install)... I can just add my repo in, and select all the software off it
<HazRPG> have it like grab all the latest software from common ppa's that I use or something along those lines
<popey> you dont need a repo for that
<popey> just a single deb
<popey> or even a script
<shauno> hazomatix <3
<HazRPG> loool
<HazRPG> popey: see I tried doing that with synaptic's auto create script thing... but failed miserably each time
<HazRPG> the idea is... I can have it downloading all the ppa's/debs/etc from my server and then have all my machines just pull it from there instead of having to download it like 5 times (laptop, netbook, my tower, my sister's pc, my mess around pc)
<HazRPG> shauno: kinda... expect, not as bad as automatix
<shauno> I think they're 3 separate problems.  you want something to throw in /etc/apt/sources.lists.d/, maybe a metapackage to automate the list of packages you want, and an apt-cache so you don't have to pull them 5 times over
<HazRPG> sounds about right
<popey> i use squid-deb-proxy to cache my downloads on my server, works well
<shauno> a local repo would work too, but you're likely to spend more bw keeping that up-to-date, than downloading a package 5 times each time you upgrade
<shauno> (and wouldn't solve sources.list or a package list, really)
<HazRPG> popey: but that's just assuming you have a debian-based server though
<shauno> there's your first task then :D
<HazRPG> its on my to-do list :P
<HazRPG> I have two hard drives on my server that's full... and would take me a day (at the very least) to move those files around, configure the software I want it to run... copy them back over and get things running again
<HazRPG> well I say full, ones got about 30GB free
<popey> HazRPG: whats assuming?
<HazRPG> popey: well squid-deb-proxy is a debian based package isn't it?
 * brobostigon returns with goats cheese and ham toasties, yummy, :)
<popey> yes
<HazRPG> my server currently runs windows lol
<popey> well thats silly :)
<HazRPG> its from my HND days
<HazRPG> when we were messing around with windows server
<HazRPG> started out as just a test dummy, that ended up being my home server
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski
<HazRPG> hmm, I guess I could use my VPS as a place to store my apps though...
<Myrtti> oh good.
<daubers> czajkowski: Thanks for sorting my wiki syntax :)
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> not sure what I did..
<czajkowski> but :)
<daubers> heh
<hamitron> my eyes :/ no sleep yet
<HazRPG> hamitron: really, you've been up this whole time too?
<shauno> time change + F1 = poor hamitron :(
<hamitron> F1 was boring as usual too
<hamitron> stay up every year, hoping it will be different
<hamitron> I think I feel it more now I am older
<hamitron> few years ago I'd still feel alive till 7pm
<hamitron> now all I am good for is drinking tea and coffee
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> shauno: you think I can get away without declaring I've bought another comp?
<HazRPG> brb, drink run... plus my mate that passed out earlier today needs to go home now ^^
<HazRPG> he waves
<HazRPG> ... at a monitor...
<hamitron> parents will wanna kill me
<HazRPG> so I assume he means you guys :P
<hamitron> haha haz
<hamitron> o/
<shauno> hamitron: Â£8 .. and a tiny box .. you might be able to hide it :o)
<hamitron> shauno: I am wondering if I should claim it is a router
<HazRPG> brb \o
<shauno> ooh, that'd work
<shauno> shame it doesn't have two nics, else it /could/ be a router
<hamitron> it has usb
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> and a printer port
<HazRPG> also, hamitron was my mate waving not me :P
<hamitron> I was waving at yourr m8
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I have a "mysterious closet of internet", where the router & associated gubbings live.  I swear I could hide half an elephant in there and she wouldn't notice
<hamitron> haha shauno
<HazRPG> hamitron: ah :P, he seems amused :P
<hamitron> I have 3 routers \o/
<hamitron> but they are just "the network"
<HazRPG> ow!
<HazRPG> big ball of fire hates me!
<shauno> modem, router, ups, a usb hub that looks remarkably similar to the router, an old tower PC, and ... I've lost count how many external drives.
<shauno> as far as she's concerned, it's just a huge ball of wires
<HazRPG> sunnies... and round two of the leaving the house scenario part 2!
<hamitron> similar :)
<shauno> heck, she ain't far off
<hamitron> I do admit, I have too much though
<hamitron> could half the number of computers here, and still have too many
<hamitron> 17 setup, with 6 as spares ;)
<shauno> I gotta say I love apple's little wall-wart routers.  very easy to hide around the house.  maybe you need to start looking at plug-pcs :)
<hamitron> now I have 2 laptops, I could use one for "rough" work
<daubers> If only the apple rouers did EoP as well :(
<hamitron> and move it around, not worry about getting oil on it
<hamitron> and other mess
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I need gbit switches
<shauno> EoP?
<hamitron> all I really want now
<hamitron> Ethernet over Power?
 * hamitron is guessing
<hamitron> daubers: all built in you mean?
<shauno> more wired networking wouldn't get me far .. all the wired clients are in the same closet as the modem
<hamitron> you can live with wireless?
<hamitron> :/
<brobostigon> three men and a baby, film4, leonard nimoy directing, good film.
<shauno> hamitron, easily
<hamitron> I found brick walls stop the signal
<shauno> I've not had a problem with wifi ever since I discovered no-one else was using 5GHz locally :)
<shauno> 2.4 was a constant fight for clear channels, but I appear to have this band to myself
<hamitron> ah, built up area?
<shauno> that was in an apartment complex, so worse than built-up.  neighbours in all directions, including up & down
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I have 2 wireless neighbours in range, if I go outside
<hamitron> nothing shows inside
<hamitron> but there again, I struggle to find my own in 3/4 of the house
<hamitron> so just turned it off
<shauno> our laptops seem to struggle, but the routers don't.  so I put one router on each floor; problem solved
<hamitron> this house is 3 knocked into 1, plus an extension
<shauno> hence why I like the dinky ones :)
<hamitron> then i also have ethernet to the garage
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> they're handy when we go on holiday too.  tidy enough to throw in the bag & convert stupid hotels who think having an ethernet cable hanging beside the telly is sufficient
<hamitron> don't they offer an extension?
 * hamitron never been into a hotel
<shauno> it's not the length.  it's just inconvenient.  especially if I'm abroad, I want somewhere I can use my phone without o2 bleeding me dry for data
<shauno> I end up taking a router with me even if I'm not taking the laptop
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> guess you are never cut off from the world...
<shauno> not voluntarily, no :)
<hamitron> I personally choose to leave my mobile at home
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> it is like the feeling of been free I really enjoy
<hamitron> didn't realise how different it felt until I tried
<hamitron> had always been encouraged to take a phone
<shauno> I don't feel less free for having a gadget
<hamitron> people never bug you?
<shauno> very rarely.  now that I've convinced NTL to quit phoning me trying to sell me a phoneline (go figure), I only get work calls if I'm on-call (or late), and if I'm on holiday, my wife isn't going to be phoning me
<shauno> it's just a little internets in my pocket
<hamitron> that sounds ok then
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> even if it's just subway maps & any notes I've taken, I wouldn't leave it behind
<hamitron> I seem to have a tallent for choosing high maintanance gf
<hamitron> that bug me too often
<shauno> no technology can solve that :)
<hamitron> technology adds to it ;)
<hamitron> gives them a method of contact
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> these days I just use the excuse my ngage doesn't fit in a pocket
<shauno> okay; why do lipo batteries all have 3 pins, and how do I figure out which is which
<hamitron> multimeter?
<shauno> hm
<shauno> (don't have one; trying to jump pins with an led to see if I can get any signs of life)
<hamitron> won't you want a resistor in there? :|
<shauno> it's 3.7v & dead.  an led will survive a short trip
<batte> #javascript
<hamitron> ah, k
<shauno> does appear to be dead-dead :/
<hamitron> all mine have + and - marked
<shauno> I have a battery with almost no markings at all
<shauno> it says "standard lithium-ion polymer battery 3.7v", and a bunch of warnings about eating it, or using it after it's been eaten; or burning it
<shauno> I have a lipo charger (max1555 ic), but it only has 2 pins for battery, so I'm trying to figure out if the third pin is important; and which is which
<hamitron> it is normally for temp or data communications I think
<shauno> going inside the handheld itself didn't render many clues :(
<hamitron> oh ffs
<hamitron> I cut and pasted a file from a network share
<hamitron> to somewhere I didn't have permission
<hamitron> where does it go?
<hamitron> :/
<Myrtti> *cough* language *cough*
<hamitron> hmmm?
<hamitron> sorry Myrtti
<hamitron> ;/
<penguin42> Myrtti: I'm sure he was just referring to the C library function - see ffs(3)
<Myrtti> penguin42: I'm sure he wasn't
<Myrtti> since he actually apologized and everything - anyway
<penguin42> :-)
<Myrtti> making macaroni mince casserole nomnomnom
<Myrtti> or bake, or whatever
<Myrtti> with a bit of parmesan and bluecheese on top...
<shauno> I do miss the days they made gadgets that you didn't have to abstain from drinking coffee for 3 hours before re-assembling :(
<penguin42> that's miniturisation for you
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> can't find the ISO file
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> new download just gone \o/
<shauno> good sign that it's naptime.  two buttons labelled L and R and I got them the wrong way around.  twice.
<ging> if i want to run some vms from my ubuntu desktop locally whats the best program to use?
<penguin42> ging: I use kvm+virtmanager - works fine for me; the video isn't that fast though; others swear by virtualbox
<popey> i use vbox
<ging> yeah i've used virtual box and quite liked it just wondered if there is any alternatives
<ging> vbox == virtual box ?
<popey> yes
<Myrtti> vmware was nice when I tried it but kvm is certainly handy to have around
<penguin42> popey: That sloppy mouse/menu bar thing is a bit of a pain - I'm almost tempted to try and do the patch as per the blueprint idea of not switching when something gains focus by mouse over
<ging> how come the latest vbox releases are never in the repositories?
<gord> penguin42, if we're talking about unity, already passed ui freeze
<penguin42> gord: Yeh I guessed, I'd just ppa it anyway - if I do it; or I might just dump unity
<popey> ging: there is a virtual box repo of their own
<smittix> Reet all
<smittix> Anyone any good with images?
<smittix> Was messing with my Fuji S1800 yesterday and caught something weird.
<smittix> http://aptgetmoo.co.uk/?p=31
<ging> i aint falling for that one again
<ging> someone else look for me
<smittix> It's not a rick roll or anything
<ging> something far far worse?
<mgdm> it'll be one of those ones that swaps it out for something 'scary' after a few seconds?
<mgdm> or something similarly tedious?
<smittix> Nope, Just a Jpeg
<popey> where in that picture is the 'ghost'?
<smittix> above the TV
<ging> i dont really get it, unless it's the smudge on the wall, which without ever being in your house i've no idea if it is normally there or not
<smittix> if you zoom into it
<smittix> Nothing there on the wall
<mgdm> looks like a reflection off one of the pictures on the mantlepiece, or sometihng
<popey> well, given ghosts don't exist, I'd imagine a compression artifact, something on the lens, the ccd or as mgdm says, reflection
<ging> popey: you complain when i troll then you go a quite litterally leave the door open like that
<popey> uh
<popey> saying ghosts don't exist is trolling?
<popey> seriously?
<tugrik> any suggestions on how to start an xserver on a remote host, that I can remotely access using x11vnc, but that isn't viewable from the host itself?
<ging> no but me arguing that they do would have been
<brobostigon> i agree with popey, he is right, in stating fact.
<mgdm> You should learn to contain yourself
<popey> tugrik: vncserver
<Myrtti> I vote for reflection
<ging> mgdm: well i did it was hard but it did
<shauno> I vote swamp gas / weather balloon combo
<brobostigon> shauno: that reminds me of MIB.
<tugrik> aaahhhhh, cheers popey, didn't realise that was essentially a separate display
<tugrik> and meanwhile I vote for a balloon full of swamp gas too
<mgdm> tugrik: refracting the light from Venus?
<brobostigon> lol
<tugrik> surely "uranus" mgdm ?
<popey> *honk* *honk*
<mgdm> Caution: comedy genius at work
<tugrik> gah
<ging> i clearly watch too much rolling news, i feel compelled to offer an oposing view point even when it is clearly pointless
<tugrik> anyway to get vncserver to listen on localhost only?
<smittix> heh
<smittix> weird anyways
<ging> tugrik: could do it with iptables rules
<Myrtti> x11vnc -listen localhost
<phil> Hi all.
<popey> hello phil
<tugrik> want to avoid iptables ging
<popey> ooo handy Myrtti
<tugrik> and Myrtti  - that connects to an existing X display doesn't it?
<phil> Am on Ubuntu 10.04.  I used Firefox 3.6 up until now.
<Myrtti> tugrik: by default, if not configured otherwise
<ging> yeah you could do it the easy
<phil> Have just tried FF4.0, but I'm having font rendering problems.
<Myrtti> I run mine x11vnc -scale 2/3 -listen localhost -display :0
<phil> Have there been reports of other people having font rendering problems with FF4/Ubuntu/Linux?
<popey> dunno phil
<popey> phil: how did you install ff4?
<phil> popey: Are you using FF4.0?
<popey> yes phil
<ging> is FF4 still beta?
<phil> popey: downloaded the binary and ran from the command line.
<popey> !ff4
<lubotu3> Firefox 4 is the current stable version of Firefox. Current versions of Ubuntu do not have it (see !latest), but there is an unofficial and unsupported PPA that you can use by running the following command: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install firefox
<phil> ging: No, no longer in Beta.
<popey> phil: better off using the ppa
<popey> ^^^
<phil> Ok, will try that
<phil> now...
<ging> well how come i dont have it?
<popey> ging: read what lubotu3 just said
<mgdm> I'm awfully tempted to get a Kinect despite not having an XBox
<ging> is it not considered stable enough on ubuntu to be rolled out? or did they just leave it because 11.04 is due out soon anyway?
<phil> Woooo!
<phil> That worked!  Must be the firefox-gnome support or something
<popey> no ging
<phil> Brillian!  Thanks guys!
<phil> +t
<popey> ging: re-read what it says
<popey> !latest
<lubotu3> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<phil> Thanks lubotu3
<tugrik> gah, "Xvnc -localhost" still opens up something on port 6000
<popey> great phil
<mgdm> popey: ta for that PPA link, I'd used the tarball which is less than ideal
<popey> np
<phil> Yeah... should always remember to use the repositories...
<phil> Thanks again!  I'm off....
<tugrik> aaaaahhhhh
<tugrik> Xvnc -nevershared -localhost -nolisten tcp
<tugrik> cheers for the first step on that popey
<smittix> Looks weird when ran through a filter though
<smittix> http://aptgetmoo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/edit.png
<smittix> looks like a nun
<smittix> heh
<shauno> If you're up for editing it, it can look like whatever you want :)
<ging> a square nun
<shauno> Heck, give me a smudge tool and I'll make it look like ... a wall!
<smittix> I just ran it through a colour filter in gimp
<smittix> eh well
<ging> shauno: yeah but then conspiraciest would want to know what was hidden by the smudge tool, they wouldnt conclude that it was just a reflection of the ceiling reflected by a picture fram
<brobostigon> has someone got the google repo string for me please.
<Myrtti> *burp* the best mince and macaroni bake EVAH
<mfraz74> Considering putting the OEM version of Ubuntu 11.04 on a netbook. How do I access the menu to change to OEM install?
<hamitron> you using the alt cd?
<mfraz74> no, a normal CD image on a USB stick
<hamitron> not 100% sure if it can be done with normal livecd
<mfraz74> Did a OEM install of Kubuntu last month and that allowed me to do it by pressing F4 after setting the language, but I couldn't see that
<hamitron> ah, maybe can now
<hamitron> :)
<mfraz74> just saw 2 icons at the bottom of the screen
<hamitron> !oem
<lubotu3> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? See http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
<matti> TheOpenSourcerer: ;]
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey matti :-)
<popey> mfraz74: press space when you see the 'man equals keyboard' thing on the screen
<mfraz74> popey: thanks for that, it isn't very clear
<popey> np
<mfraz74> probably best to wait until the final version is out anyway
<shauno> daubers: epic email.  I needed that.  ty.
<mfraz74> For some reason it kept saying that I couldn't find the sound system even though Banshee could play music
<daubers> shauno: yw :)
<mfraz74> Was very shocked to hear that my team won 5 - 1 yesterday
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a channel for getting to know about Ubuntu Professional Certification ?
<kaushal> or Mailing List ?
<popey> kaushal: thats a canonical thing, so you're better off contacting them directly
<popey> i.e. it's not a community thing
<kaushal> popey: ok
<kaushal> popey: can i pvt message you ?
<popey> sure
<popey> any time
<Seeker`> bah, so annoying when devs say "we know there is a problem ,we won't fix it"
<bigcalm> That's when you get so fed up you a) fix it and submit a patch b) find an alternative application
<popey> i found an unfixed bug, friend said he'd fix it for _me_ but refused to contribute back
<ali1234> but hang on
<shauno> Copyright assignment will do that :/
<ali1234> wouldn't he have to give you the source
<popey> he has
<ali1234> well there you go then, what's the problem?
<popey> fixes it for me, nobody else
<popey> and I have to keep putting that patch in my system and rebuilding
<ali1234> well you could always... send the patch to upstream
<popey> i could
<popey> but its his code
<ali1234> so?
<popey> (c) him
<ali1234> and why is this a problem?
<popey> he doesnt want to sign over his copyright to canonical
<ali1234> oh, so in other words, canonical rfuses to accept his contribution?
<ali1234> once again, why is this a problem?
<popey> well, i guess you could look at it like that
<penguin42> copyright assignments vary depending on project
<ali1234> yes, i am aware of that
<popey> it's a patch for ubuntu software centre, which is a canonical thing
<popey> so he would have to sign over his copyright to them
<penguin42> some projects require copyright assignments, some don't
<popey> which he doesnt want to do
<ali1234> perfectly reasonable
<popey> yup
<shauno> It's pretty normal for copyright to _not_ change hands without employment or payment.
<penguin42> shauno: Most of the GNU projects require assignment
<shauno> I'd still call that abnormal, in the grand scale of things. Although I do trust that the worst GNU will do is go v3
<hamitron> if you sign copyright over they could release a closed source project with the code
<ali1234> hamitron: that's exactly what oracle have done with "open" office
<hamitron> I didn't know that, but I don't trust any of them
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> sun collected all the copyright assignments, everything was fine, then oracle bought the lot and relicenced it
<ali1234> it's why there is now a libreoffice
<hamitron> everyone is out to get me....
<hamitron> 1 problem is libreoffice
<hamitron> if the project leaders ever wanted to change license, the code they branched is locked to the license
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<hamitron> and oracle still control it ultimately
<Laney> no
<hamitron> branching an open source project lets you keep that license only, not change it later
<hamitron> to re-license you need copyrights
<ali1234> they do in fact control it ultimately, since they have all the copyright assignments (sun were very dilligent in collecting them)
<shauno> oracle control anything post-takeover
<penguin42> some of the assignment processes actually make sure that you have the right to contribute the code; e.g. does your empolyer (however unreasonably) claim any code you right in your own time?
<penguin42> write
<shauno> anything that was licensed openly, can be continued under that license
<shauno> penguin42: I believe your employer can claim anything that was written on their time/dime.  anything outside of that is up to your contract
<hamitron> libreoffice is GPLv2 "and later"?
<penguin42> shauno: Depends on country; I was told they can claim everything that's even vaguely related whenever you did it
<ali1234> hamitron: no, it's LGPL 3
<penguin42> shauno: So if you're a computer programmer for a company chances are they might be technically able to claim copyright
<shauno> I believe here (not UK) that's only the case if it relies on anything that I wouldn't know without that employment
<hamitron> ali1234: but it has the text that allows it to move to newer revisions?
<ali1234> you'd have to look on the source code
<ali1234> there is no newer version than version 3
<penguin42> shauno: I'm in the UK and was told it's basically anything vaguely related
<hamitron> yeh, just if there was a need for version 4, due to some legal reason
<hamitron> I remember reading about the linux kernel and it been restricted to GPLv2
 * jacobw is back from howduino
<shauno> I think writing anything vaguely related to your day job without something in writing is just pretty much sketchy
<shauno> the kernel is 'stuck' with v2 because they'd have a hellish time, if even possible, of tracking down every contributor
<hamitron> yes
<shauno> that's the 'pro' of copyright assignment.  you avoid that issue.  the con, is whether you trust the next choice in license.
<ali1234> it's version 3 only
<penguin42> shauno: And because some people would object to it being v3 - v3 is spooking a lot of companies
<hamitron> exactly shauno
<ali1234> shauno: no, the kernel is stuck with version 2 only because linus hates freedom :)
<shauno> ali1234: I do believe he'd have to drop a lot of existing contributions to move to 3
<Myrtti> Linus â¥
<shauno> that'd be a helluva audit
<ali1234> he is against it idealogically and has said so many times :)
<hamitron> if Linus had made everyone sign copyrights over, wouldn't be a problem.... unless he is some evil dude wanting to wreck all our lives ;)
<shauno> hamitron: exactly.  with companies, you add more vectors.  what's up for sale if they have to declare bankruptcy, etc
<hamitron> shauno: I suppose if he had personally owned it, someone like Apple would of been able to take it
<shauno> I think popey's friend is making a perfectly sane choice.  They know what their contribution is, who owns it, and what it's worth - _if_ they retain it.
<hamitron> perhaps OS X would be based on linux
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> heh.  fat chance :)
<hamitron> I mean, they could of got the copyrights
<hamitron> or anyone with patents I suppose
<penguin42> shauno: He should have known the copyright and assignment for contribution before fixing it
<ali1234> um why?
<ali1234> you're saying he shouldn't fix it for himself and anyone else who *is* willing to accept his contribution?
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not saying shouldn't, I'm saying it would be worth looking first
<shauno> penguin42: it sounds like he did.  it sounds like he's not against sharing his fix.  It sounds like canonical would be free to accept it if their terms didn't get in the way
<penguin42> shauno: Those terms are well known, it's not their problem at that point
<ali1234> seems like it's not anyone problem
<shauno> he's still free to fix it, and share that fix, under the license he received the code under.  it's not a problem for him
<penguin42> ali1234: It puts popey in an odd position; he's now seen the source code to a fix; if he decided to fix it himself and contribute it back it would be arguable that it was based on some code that wasn't assigned
<shauno> that canonical won't accept the fix for wider distribution is their business
<ali1234> penguin42: yeah, sad, ain't it?
<ali1234> the question is, who is being hurt by this?
<ali1234> the answer: canonical and their customers, and nobody else
<penguin42> ali1234: popey
<shauno> on one side, no-one.  on the other side, everyone who doesn't receive the fix because canonical won't / can't accept it
<gord> i wasn't that fussed about ubuntu not being accepted for google summer of code, but i just learnt that reactos has been... geez
<hamitron> has reactos moved on much?
<jacobw> not much
<hamitron> last I heard, they were reviewing all code
<jacobw> yeah..
<jacobw> in my opinion reactos is the most pointless thing since gentoo :p
<shauno> reactos is still stuck where aros is.  "pointless"
<gord> last i heard it was using mostly wine code anyway
<hamitron> if reactos worked, it could be cool
<shauno> it's wine with a kernel & a shell
<shauno> they'd have made a bigger impact if they're wrote a kernel for emacs, tbh
<hamitron> yeh, but the idea of running a huge collection of existing software is good
<jacobw> sort of defeats the aim of free software though..
<shauno> ideas rock.  reality sucks.
<hamitron> imo, linux for gamers either needs to: 1) perfect wine OR 2) get native games provided
<hamitron> same for a few other bits of software too
<hamitron> to be a complete replacement, it must do everything as well
<shauno> that's been done, done, and done
<shauno> the real problem is; everyone who whines about no games on linux needs to buy the ones that appear
<shauno> darwinia rocks.  buy it.  uplink sucks.  buy it anyway.
<hamitron> I always give priority to games and apps that don't need to be bought twice for multiple platforms
<shauno> steam is rocking for that on the mac.  I hope they show up natively on linux one day
<hamitron> yes
<shauno> but that company .. Loki I think?
<hamitron> these linux game publishers never attracted me, because I refuse to pay twice
<shauno> no-one actually bought anything
<hamitron> loki is one
<hamitron> UT3 upset me
<shauno> don't pay twice.  pirate the windows knowing you're in the moral right for all I care.
<shauno> (*windows version)
<hamitron> hehe
<gord> shauno, eh i love uplink
<hamitron> I don't agree with pirating ;/
<shauno> but if you refuse to pay twice, and only buy the windows version; you're defeating yourself
<shauno> hamitron: I think if you've bought it on one platform, paying for another isn't pirating.  this may not be legal, but I believe it's moral
<hamitron> it is breaking the license the publisher has given
<hamitron> I personally don't buy either
<jacobw> how can you not believe in pirating :|
<shauno> gord: I didn't like it at all.  I bought it because I was amazed I found a box in HMV with a penguin on it.  but it wasn't my cup of tea
<hamitron> UT2k4 is the best imo
<hamitron> script on the disk, worked out of the box
<shauno> UT:GOTY here
 * jacobw does agree the sensible thing is not to buy in the first place
<gord> did epic ever get around to releasing that version of unreal 3 that worked on linux, they were promicing that for years...
<hamitron> shauno: does it have the scriupt on disk?
<hamitron> gord: I am still waiting
<hamitron> and not buying till they do
<shauno> hamitron: I believe the GOTY disc did, the original disk didn't
<hamitron> I have the GOTY version
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> and I believe the right thing is to buy the linux version.  beg/borrow/steal whatever platforms you need, but put your money where you want it.
<hamitron> 2 disks, it has the high quality texture pack
<hamitron> I think WoW missed a trick
<shauno> buy it on the platform you want it on, acquire it on platforms you require it on
<hamitron> VMware Workstation license isn't restricted to 1 host OS either
<shauno> if you're gonna buy it either way, make your buck a vote.
<hamitron> I was glad to see
<hamitron> yeh
<Myrtti> oh lordy http://twitter.com/#!/mikkohypponen/status/52043393404116992
<Myrtti> *facepalm*
<hamitron> I have bought a lot of windows games and a copy of windows though :/
<jacobw> Myrtti: lol
<shauno> I think it's a shame blizzard (WoW et al) don't support linux.  because their mac support is first-tier
<hamitron> I'd better take a break before I waste money on more of them thin clients
<hamitron> yeh :/
<shauno> I still from the same retail box the windows users do.  I get everything at the same time windows users do
<shauno> still?  *install
<shauno> I don't get patches so much as 5 minutes later than windows users do.  it's fantastic
<hamitron> suppose linux has too many configs to support
<hamitron> be a nightmare
<shauno> in theory, it's not that bad
<shauno> the less platform you depend on (libc & opengl), the better.  it does work.
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> 1 reason I like statically compiled stuff ;)
<hamitron> but then you have licensing issues
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> gone ;)
<hamitron> o/
<dutchie> dark blue forever :D
<directhex> every day in every way, mono packaging impresses me
<mgdm> how now?
<bigcalm> mgdm: what's your IDE of choice?
<mgdm> bigcalm: Vim
<mgdm> or Netbeans if I must have an actual IDE
<bigcalm> Really?
<bigcalm> Humms
<mgdm> It's what I use 90% of the time, unless I'm in Eclipse doing Android
<bigcalm> I do like function navigation
<mgdm> but Eclipse makes me want to lob it into the Clyde
<bigcalm> I'm surprised the Eclipse is still the 'best' thing out there
<directhex> mgdm, we're down to 11.2 meg for a minimal install
<directhex> mgdm, compare to a minimal jre
<mgdm> directhex: nice
<mgdm> bigcalm: Nah, IMO Netbeans > Eclipse
<bigcalm> directhex: monodev - only useful for mono or will it cater for other syntaxes as well?
<directhex> mgdm, it's 16.3 on current packages
<mgdm> Eclipse is big, bloated, slow, confusing, crashy, slow, confusing, slow, bloated, crashy, and slow
<directhex> bigcalm, monodevelop? the only first-class citizen is c#. but there is support for about 8 other languages, including C, C++, Java, Python, Vala
<directhex> mgdm++
<bigcalm> PHP JS XHTML?
<directhex> ... not those. patches welcome!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I might give it a go, just for something different
<bigcalm> I asume that monodevelop was written in mono? ;)
<directhex> basically, the gui designer only works for c#. and i'm not sure which languages have intellisense
<mgdm> bigcalm: Nah, Java. :P
<directhex> bigcalm, monodevelop is written in c#
<bigcalm> Oh ffs
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> mgdm, not so mad - microsoft#s c# compiler is written in c, not c#
<mgdm> Oh, didn't know that
<mgdm> I'd've assumed they'd have had a self-hosting one by now
<directhex> mgdm, planned for .net 5
<mgdm> ah
<mgdm> Mono's compiler is self-hosting, though?
<daubers> popey: Seen the cartoons in the latest LXF?
<directhex> mgdm, first thing that ever existed in mono was the compiler, self-hosting on ms.net before the mono classlib began
<mgdm> I remembered correctly, then \o/
<directhex> i'm gonna go hack on XSP whilst lying on the bed, pretending i have a garden to enjoy
<ging> is there a way i can make gnome terminal on ubuntu cache my ssh key passphrase?
<ging> it seems to do it on my laptop but nothing else and i dont know how i set it up
 * mgdm is reading up on structure from motion and other exciting computer vision stuff
<penguin42> mgdm: Cool - I don't know if it's any good, but have you looked at opencv (open computer vision)
<mgdm> penguin42: yup - I'm currently working on https://github.com/mgdm/OpenCV-for-PHP
<penguin42> mgdm: Cool
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> is there a way to redirect stdout to a custom log file at boot?
<penguin42> stdout from what?
<popey> daubers: no?
<pr0ph3t> penguin42, all the boot process basically
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: dmesg
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, it looks like it's skipping some steps
<ali1234> probably, it's only for kernel messages
<pr0ph3t> from 3 seconds it jumps to 16 seconds
<ali1234> if you want to know why your boot freezes for 13 seconds you should use bootchart
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, that's what I just installed
<pr0ph3t> but it's not really straight forward is it
<ali1234> um. yes?
<ali1234> just look at the image it generates?
<pr0ph3t> it doesn't :S
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
<pr0ph3t> thanks
 * AlanBell hugs ali1234 http://votegeek.org.uk/
<ali1234> AlanBell: i just found another bug: it never clears the old circles when it draws new ones
<ali1234> need to empty all the children from the triangle before starting to draw
<AlanBell> yeah, I know about that one
<AlanBell> kind of nice the way you see it overwriting them line by line though
<AlanBell> but a bit of a memory hog
<pr0ph3t> 1.26 seconds to boot :S
<ali1234> looks like chromium is about 3x faster (couldn't test before due to xss errors)
<AlanBell> could give them all an id and delete the old ones as it writes the new ones
<ali1234> just empty the children
<ali1234> what is 1.26 seconds?
<MartijnVdS> the empty child? Are you my mummy?
 * bigcalm shudders
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, boot time according to bootchart
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: have you seen the new prequel?
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: oh sorry, you're the same colour as AlanBell on my irc :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is it Easter yet? :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no, but I heard somebody mutter about it.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: thing is, he's a time lord, how do you have a prequel?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's real Moffat scary again
<pr0ph3t> what an honour
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's "getting the audience ready for the new series"
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: with a few 1.5-minute shorts
<bigcalm> Moving it away from a children's tv prog?
<pr0ph3t> you're all green to me
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no it's still a children's prog, they're just building up tension :)
<bigcalm> Goodo
<s_h> hi. does anybody else have problems with firestarter-1.0.3-7ubuntu5 ?
<s_h> it seems to be broken
<s_h> after system update
<daubers> popey: They reference mumbuntu
<popey> !
<popey> seriously?
<daubers> popey: Yup
<popey> got a scan/photo?
<daubers> can do
<daubers> popey: http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/piccymum.jpg
<popey> heh
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> mumbuntu (copyright), popey
<daubers> popey: You should drop them an email with a link to your presentation :)
<ali1234> lol @ people writing in to say they don't want a coverdisc
<ali1234> seriously who even burns isos to blank discs any more?
<popey> o/
<mgdm> o/
<daubers> o/
<ali1234> you don't use usb instead?
<popey> sometimes
<mgdm> I have more blank CDs than spare flash drives
<moreati> o/ because I use ISOs so rarely and I now CDs work, I don't know how well USB works with whatever BIOS configurations are out there
<Myrtti> mwhahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ
<bigcalm> Shame about the canned laughter
<directhex> * graham linehan descends & smites bigcalm
<popey> heheh
<popey> i was about to say that
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Over my head sadly
<popey> he writes comedy
<bigcalm> He does indeed
<bigcalm> Very good comedy
<popey> he gets quite annoyed when people moan about canned laughter, because mostly it isnt
<popey> (canned that is)
<directhex> filmed in front of a live studio audience. audiences sometimes laugh at jokes
<bigcalm> That's understandable
<bigcalm> But, take M*A*S*H
<popey> some shows they play the video to the audience
<popey> i like that youtube vid btw Myrtti
<bigcalm> Can you stop xmarks from responding to keyboard shortcuts?
<bigcalm> I'm used to using shift+control+y to inspect CSS on elements with web dev tool bar
<bigcalm> Xmarks has decided that it will nab that key binding now though
<HazRPG> back
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> I love how sometimes my days just turn into random unexpectedness
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ok, what's her name? :P
<HazRPG> haha not quite :P
<brobostigon> wb HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: then it wasn't _real_ random unexpectedness (or you were expecting it)
<HazRPG> nah, was only meant to drop my friend who passed out at mine last night off home... ended up getting iced lollies, and caffeinated beverages... ringing up another of my primary school friends... and sitting in the garden with coffee :)
<MartijnVdS> â« Today was a good day
<HazRPG> then ended up drinking to PC world random (a woman that doesn't admit she's a tad geeky, but asks to see new hardware... doesn't make sense!)... and getting food, and then driving around aimlessly... then finally dropping off my mate at work, and then the other lass at home
<HazRPG> driving** (although we were drinking energy drinks on the way)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Ice Cube  :)
<HazRPG> :P
<Azelphur> are there any mobile providers that do 3g sticks that don't expire your purchases at the end of the month?
<Azelphur> It'd be cool to pick up a 3g stick to use as a fallback internet connection :p
<Fanshawe> Hey fellas. Got a problem with my filesystem on my laptop. Running from Live CD and nothing's working. I'm suspecting a hardware failure. Any way to verify this?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: We actually sell that here in .nl :)
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: system > administration > disk utility > select drive > SMART
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 3G stick you stick in your DSL modem, when DSL drops, 3G takes over
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea that's pretty much what I want, my router is DD-WRT so it shouldn't be too amazingly difficult to do
<Azelphur> but over here all the providers expire your topups :/
<Azelphur> if you buy 10GB after 30 days if you havn't used it you loose it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: annoying
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Vodafone has a special plan for low use here
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it costs â¬5/day (for a few MB only), but only on days that you use it
<Fanshawe> Azelphur: I'm in the disk utility now. Where there would normally be my filesystem (/dev/sda1) there is now 'Unknown'. I'm not sure where your SMART option is.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and any money you add to your account with them doesn't expire for a year
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: when you click on the hard drisk in the disk utility, on the right side under serial number etc, above the big bar showing unknown, there should be a SMART Data button
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: silly expiries, I wonder why they get away with that legally
<Fanshawe> Azelphur: Ah. SMART status: Not supported.
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: woa, old drive I guess :p
<Fanshawe> What's weird is, this filesystem was working not long ago. Earlier today, in fact.
<Fanshawe> It stopped after a crash.
<Fanshawe> Hence why I'm thinking hardware failure...
<Fanshawe> Or if I'm lucky, I've just done something horrendously (but fixably) wrong.
<Azelphur> what's the model of the drive?
<Fanshawe> ATA ASUS-PHISON OB SSD
<Azelphur> oh it's an SSD :p
<brobostigon> same as in my eeepc.
<Fanshawe> Yeah, I should've mentioned. It's a netbook, an old eepc 900.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: does your one support SMART?
<Fanshawe> It used to be trusty, before it, you know, bricked.
<brobostigon> Azelphur: no idea, in truth,
<Azelphur> my SSD supports SMART but it's a high performance corsair :P
<Azelphur> brobostigon: fire up disk utility and look? :P
<brobostigon> Azelphur: one minute.
<Azelphur> ty :)
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it says not supported, sorry.
<Fanshawe> Thanks for checking, brobostigon
<Azelphur> yea, that explains that then :)
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: youre welcome,
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: any important data on there?
<Fanshawe> Only the OS. All of my files are on another, separate SSD.
<Azelphur> I'd start playing with reinstalling then and see what you get
<brobostigon> i should say, i am running under natty, incase software makes any difference,
<Azelphur> nah probably not, probably just a cheap EEE SSD with no smart support :)
<Azelphur> makes sense
<Fanshawe> Yeah, this little netbook's a bit long in the tooth.
<popey> Fanshawe: known issue...
<Fanshawe> Known issue?
<Azelphur> popey: disappearing filesystems or lack of smart?
<popey> bug 387272
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 387272 in linux (Ubuntu) "[karmic] long boot time on eee 900 (dup-of: 445852)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387272
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 445852 in libatasmart "devkit-disks-probe-ata-smart causes HSM Violations on SSD, and potential hardware death" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445852
<popey> the second one
<Fanshawe> awww
<Fanshawe> shiiiit
<brobostigon> popey: they dont seem present yet in natty,that i have seen.
<jhanafrog> i'm visiting the UK from California :)
<popey> what version of ubuntu are you using Fanshawe ?
<Fanshawe> Cool. Welcome, jhanafrog.
<Fanshawe> popey: 10.10.
<brobostigon> yep, i had hsm violations in 10.10 aswell.
<Fanshawe> Are you telling me Ubuntu killed my netbook?
<popey> i would read the bug report
<brobostigon> yes, that will make it clearer.
<jhanafrog> i take it libatasmart is a kernel dependency required for compilation?
<czajkowski> saw this at the weekend
<czajkowski> http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/06/toshiba-ac100-android-smartbook-hits-the-united-kingdom/
<czajkowski> rather tempted to buy it
<Fanshawe> This bug report is a bit overwhelming. All I really want to know is if the hardware's buggered.
<czajkowski> there are a lot of threads on it on ubuntu though
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: no, it isnt,
<jhanafrog> how big is the screen czajkowski?
<Fanshawe> brobostigon: Thank you and that is awesome.
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: can i make a suggestion,
<Fanshawe> Certainly.
<czajkowski> The 10.1-inch, 1.9-pounder
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: i dont get those errors anymore in natty, would it  be possibleto try natty on said machine?
<Fanshawe> Natty being
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: natty is the development version of ubuntu due out, end of next month,
<brobostigon> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.
<Fanshawe> Ahh, I see.
<popey> its not as simple as that
<popey> if the disk has already had a dodgy version of ubuntu on it, then just installing another version on top rarely fixes it
<popey> (I have a broken eee 900)
<brobostigon> popey: i know it isnt, but i just thought, it would be goodto see, if its  stillthere or not,
<Fanshawe> I'll happily do whatever I have to, to get this little thing running again
<brobostigon> popey: in which case i would dd the disk with zeroes, and start from scratch
<brobostigon> popey: startfrom there.
<jhanafrog> i don't get why the error is happening.  i'm sure some ssd drives work fine.  is it something in the firmware, or what?
<Fanshawe> brobostigon: You have now gone far, far above my head.
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: ask popey,he  will be able to explain it, muchbetter than me,
<jhanafrog> i'm wondering why deleting partitions and reformatting isn't sufficient
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: sorry, i am not good explaining these things.
<Fanshawe> That's alright, brobostigon, you may have just prevented me from throwing the damn thing in the bin
<jhanafrog> Fanshawe: man dd
<jhanafrog> it's just a way of writing to a disk
<jhanafrog> in very simplistic terms :)
<zleap> Devon and cornwall Lug meeting next Saturday (2nd April)
<brobostigon> popey: you havedone more work ontht bug, could you guide them, please.
<popey> Fanshawe: throw it in the bin :)
<Fanshawe> ... Bugger.
<popey> you can try wiping and reinstalling of course
<Fanshawe> I'll try whatever.
<Fanshawe> Whatever it takes, really.
<jhanafrog> Fanshawe: i would try installing the other linux you have
<jhanafrog> the one that came with the eeepc if you have it.
<Fanshawe> Seems like a logical step, jhanafrog. I even have a copy of the ISO that the previous owner originally used.
<brobostigon> or something really baisc like a version of debian
<jhanafrog> better yet, try creating a natty live iso
<jhanafrog> test that first?
<popey> i dont think thats wise
<jhanafrog> natty wouldn't boot on my system
<popey> natty isnt finished yet
 * brobostigon is playing the odds.
<jhanafrog> hmmm, yeah it is safer to use the other iso
<jhanafrog> the weird thing is that the live usb boots just fine on the disk, just when it installs it doesn't boot right.  weird.
<Fanshawe> Alright, thank you, chaps. I'll be trying out the old ISO and reporting back soon.
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: good luck,
<jhanafrog> cool Fanshawe :)
<jhanafrog> may the force be with you
<zleap> :)
<Fanshawe> Question: Should I do anything with the drive before attempting to install from another Live CD?
<zleap> i wish it was,  it would make getting people to use ubuntu easier,  me: you will use ubuntu ,  other person, I will use Ubuntu
<zleap> jedi mind trick would be useful
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: iwould simply re'partition it normally, and if not, dd the whole thing,
<BigRedS> Any lighttpd users? I'm trying to work out how to work out which file it was looking for when it returns a 404
<BigRedS> Apache sticks that in the log, lighttpd doesn't appear to by default
<brobostigon> bbc2. wonders of the universe, now.
<popey> ooo
<gord> may have spent all day playing 3ds.. the world seems so.... flat.. now
<directhex> gord, play some 3d games on your ps3!
<popey> so what do we do with buckets and water on this checkerboard?
<popey> er
<popey> other channel :)
<hamitron> sheesh
<hamitron> psu so on the limit, can't even take a case fan
<hamitron> fails to boot :/
<hamitron> once I remove 4 of the hdd, be ok
<hamitron> :)
<g5236m> @search harry potter
<Azelphur> !piracy | g5236m
<lubotu3> g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<gord> heh, needed to pay some council tax online, fill in the form and at the end it tells you to check your details. of course for security it *'s out all your details apart from the last word ;)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> Azelphur: he could be searching for the cinema release date of the last film? ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<gord> y'know, i find myself printing off web pages to pdf whenever i want to save recepts and such. why can't web browers just have a "set in stone" Button or something that basically does the same thing but keeps it in searchable memory
<hamitron> don't they?
<ali1234> pdfs are searchable
<ali1234> hamitron: they don't really, cos too much javascript nonsense
<ali1234> i've got a system that can archive websites fully
<ali1234> it works by intercepting all outgoing http requests and archiving everything
<gord> well for now you just print to pdf, thats fine, but i'd rather not go through the charade of pretending that i'm printing it
<ali1234> i haven't written the part that actually reassembles the page yet
<hamitron> how you print to pdf?
<hamitron> I had something installed for it before
<ali1234> file->print
<gord> i just want to say "Please archive this page, but in a way that does not let it change because of javascript/web sillyness"
<ali1234> select pdf
<hamitron> I assume it doesn't work in winblows
<ali1234> only if you install acrobat
<ali1234> then you get the pdf printer driver
<ali1234> windows by default has "print to xps"
<ali1234> god knows what an xps is
<hamitron> ends in .xps? ;)
<ali1234> some microsoft rip off of pdf probably
<ali1234> well, pdf is a close relative of postscript, xps is probably "microsoft eXtended post script (incompatible with everything ever)"
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> "lets see how little we can add to break things"
<hamitron> the UUID of a drive is unique to the drive, nothing to do with the interface?
<hamitron> guessing so, it boots
<BigRedS> hamitron: unique to the partition
<BigRedS> statistically, though. There's no central register, just vastly more UUIDs than partitions in teh world
<matti> '
<matti> ;]
<hamitron> I meant that, sloppy writing :/
<BigRedS> ahh
<gord> you don't need more uuids than partitions in the world even, just more uuid's than partitions in a single system
<hamitron> I've always cursed the UUID, for not been readable
<hamitron> but I've actually benefited from it this time
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> anyways, time for coffee while data is copying
<hamitron> brb
<BigRedS> haha, it's one of those things that does come in handy ocasionally
<BigRedS> but is irrating more often :)
<popey> blimey if people think #ubuntu goes by too fast, they should see #twitlive
<bigcalm> Not on this server...
<popey> irc.twit.tv iirc
<bigcalm> I see
<hamitron> the clue is in the name, for the types of people who use it ;/
<popey> heh
<popey> its bonkers
<popey> http://blog.sucuri.net/2011/03/mysql-com-compromised.html
<AlanBell> presumably that is during a live recording
<popey> yes
<popey> they have over 1000 people online right now
<popey> hmm, their chat might be limited to 1000
<hamitron> how is best to reduce power drawn from the psu?
<hamitron> set cpu to low speed, etc?
<directhex> hamitron, depends on the psu design
<hamitron> cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> hamitron, e.g. number of rails
<directhex> hamitron, cheap will be single-rail
<hamitron> it has 2 x 12V rails
<directhex> ah, dual rail. roughly equal distribution of devices on both?
<hamitron> 10A and 12A
<hamitron> but atm it doesn't provide enough power
<hamitron> just wanting it to run, don't need high performance
<hamitron> may try lowering voltages too
<Azelphur> epicness, kupfer dev just patched in multi X support :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: so your problem should be fixed?
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> my kupfer problem? yea :p
<hamitron> dunno wtf kupfer is ;/
<Azelphur> you know gnome-do?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> ;D
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/
<Azelphur> basically just ctrl+f type fi and by the time you've done that it probably figured out you want firefox :)
<hamitron> what is wrong with alt+f2?
<hamitron> ;/
<AlanBell> I have surprised my parents by turning up to stay the night, after they have filled out their census
<Azelphur> hamitron: this is like alt+f2 on steroids
<Azelphur> basically :P
<hamitron> haha AB
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> nn brob
<hamitron> well Azelphur
<hamitron> steriods is cheating imo ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<brobostigon> night hamitron
<Azelphur> hamitron: it does math, you can install stuff from apt, launch applications, search your bookmarks, everything is in there
<Azelphur> it's fancy :)
<hamitron> <3 LXDE
<hamitron> not sure how well it will run on the thin client I ordered though
<hamitron> damn I am feeling good now, actually got myself shifted and comps are nearly sorted
<hamitron> :)
 * penguin42 is working through trying to get cyanogenmod on his phone
<penguin42> seems to be a lot of black magic involved
<hamitron> :)
<penguin42> anyone done it?
<BigRedS> I did it on my G1
<hamitron> I'm a phone newb
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> penguin42: I have cyanogen on my DZ, the latest version :)
<BigRedS> not much black magic, there's guides all over XDA developers, just follow them exactly
<BigRedS> 'just' :)
<hamitron> :))
 * penguin42 has a ZTE blade
<Azelphur> penguin42: my mum has a ZTE Blade, I tried cyanogenmod last month and it was rather unstable
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> the blade port hasn't been out very long at all
<Azelphur> but I assume you can cope with pulling the battery out every now and again when it freezes, let me know how you get on :)
<penguin42> BigRedS: The instructions are somewhat random; for example I've got adb working good, it took me a while to find fastboot - everything tells me I want it but finding it was harder
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> I think it was simpler in my day - everything was linked to
<BigRedS> the instructions for Darky's on my Galaxy were similar, too
<penguin42> and clockwordmod doesn't want to play ball
<directhex> i'm on froydvillain 1.7
<directhex> on mah htc hewo!
<BigRedS> mmm, clockwork's different to how it used to be
<BigRedS> I kept only half-reading the instructions, and then wondering where it was
<directhex> USING CLOCKWORKMOD HELPS FUND MONO DEVELOPMENT AAAARGH
<BigRedS> huh?
<hamitron> why all the anti mono? ;/
<BigRedS> I think it's mostly in jest
<directhex> koushik dutta, the guy behind clockwork mod, has been tinkering with mono for a while. he's got commits in mono itself now. and clockwork mod funds him.
<directhex> and the anti-mono because it amuses me that some people really feel that way
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-19
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey DJones
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone else.
<DJones> Morning TheOpenSourcerer
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell
<MooDoo> hello all
<bigcalm> Morning :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi MooDoo
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> SEC have lost one of the phases to Callieva Park this morning
<daubers> Luckily one ring in the office is on another phase, so extension leads _everywhere_ keeping servers alive as the UPS's die
<bigcalm> That's healthy
<daubers> Yep!
<BigRedS> Surely the UPSs should be switching to the not-down phases all by themselves?
<daubers> The old building is entirley on a single phase
<daubers> and that's where the server room is
<daubers> One room in the new building is on another phase :)
<AlanBell> I guess that hurts the power company a bit
<daubers> Meh, this has happened before, so they probably need a good kicking anyway
<czajkowski> morning all
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/191072  if someone wants to tackle that
<AlanBell> "linux mint"
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all!
<diplo> Morning all
<kirrus> g'morning
<MooDoo> morn
<popey> Morning
<ali1234> that guy with the tosh laptop running mint has handed you the answer to an existing long standing bug on a plate
<ali1234> unfortunately the first person to respond didn't read past the first line and just told him to go to linux mint forums
<ed1234> Hi anyone know how to turn off anti aliasing in all the applications in lubuntu, Ive selected the option from customize look and feel but some applications still have antialiasing on (i have istalled calibre, which is ebook conversion tool and it has aa on),thanks, any help appreciated (oh and i am new to linux)
<ali1234> which i might add will have no idea what to do with him because it's a web forum, and web forums and kernel developers do not mix
<ali1234> plus they won't want to know either because he is using a custom kernel patch
<ali1234> ed1234: it is complicated
<ali1234> i will explain it though, to make a point about why lubuntu is not a reasonable alternative to gnome
<nothingspecial> ali1234, do you have a problem at ubuntuforums.org? or another forum
<ali1234> you see, long ago, linux had hundreds of different gui toolkits, all completely incompatible
<bigcalm> popey: how did you not get hong-kong? :(
<ali1234> then KDE was invented and it was good, but the licence sucked, so then gnome was invented as well
<ali1234> so these two toolkits were incompatible but both very good in comparison to everything else
<ali1234> after a while the two groups of developers started working together on some stuff, under an initiative called free desktop
<ali1234> under free desktop, gnome and kde share some configuration options like appearence settings
<ali1234> so if you run KDE, gnome apps will follow the KDE setting for antialiasing
<ali1234> and if you run gnome, the KDE apps follow the gnome setting
<ali1234> that all works really well
<ali1234> unfortunately stuff like lubuntu, xfce, and all the others have terrible free desktop support, so if you use them, the end result is neither gnome nor KDE apps (which is 99% of all apps) will correctly follow the desktop settings for antialiasing, fonts etc
<ali1234> so you have to install the respective configuration system for the app, and configure it separately
<ali1234> you have to do that for both KDE and gnome
<popey> bigcalm: âº
<ali1234> and that's why i rage every time someone suggests LXDE or XFCE as an alternative to gnome 2
<bigcalm> popey: I pour my artistic soul into that game!
 * bigcalm sobs quietly
<bigcalm> I do get piddled off by those who just write the answer. Missing the point of the game
<ed1234> so what do I do then? surely there must be a solution without reinstaling ubuntu (which btw runs slow on my old machine)
<ali1234> ed1234: it depends on the app
<ali1234> you need to figure out what toolkit it uses, and then install the configuration tools for that toolkit
<ed1234> how do I do that, figure out he toolkit it uses?
<ali1234> there are several ways
<ali1234> you can look at the source code or the dependencies of the package
<ali1234> after a while you'll be able to tell just by looking at the appor check the website
<ali1234> for example calibre uses Qt
<ed1234> ok, so I need QT configuration tool then
<ali1234> you configure that using qt4-qtconfig
<DJones> Did somebody mention that HUD was being delayed and wouldn't be included in precise (can't decide whether I misread something, or whether that was said last week)
<ed1234> will that qt configuration affect all qt applications on my machine?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> also it doesn't appear to have a setting for anti-aliasing
<directhex> oh joy. "someone stole some blank vehicle registration documents, so now we're reprinting them for everyone in the country on a different colour paper"
<ali1234> again?
<bigcalm> Funky
<bigcalm> MOT certs are really boring now
<bigcalm> Plain white paper
<directhex> ali1234, say hello to the new bright red V5C!
<directhex> wait, the theft of the old blue ones was in *2007*?
<DJones> directhex: Have you got a link to that story?
<directhex> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_189329
<DJones> Interesting
<ali1234> ah so not again, it's just taken them 5 years to do something about it?
<BigRedS> It *is* the DVLA
<directhex> ali1234, yes!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: hugs
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: mrevell: set for Thursday?
<bigcalm> I am
<mrevell> davmor2, Yeah, probably.
<bigcalm> Not sure what to do about Wednesday evening though
<bigcalm> I could leave early, but that would not be good for Adam Sweet if I'm giving him a lift
<davmor2> bigcalm: If things keep going the way they are I won't have time to get there but hopefully that won't be the case and Adam won't mind really
<s-fox> o/
<diplo> AlanBell, Was it you who ordered the Zoostorm recently from ebuyer ?
<diplo> And upgraded parts ?
<popey> he ordered one for dadbuntu didnt he?
 * popey has one too
<AlanBell> diplo: yes, didn't upgrade anything on it
<diplo> How did you find it in the end ?
<diplo> Had my parents asking me again yesterday, thought I'd see how you had got on :)
<ali1234> zoostorm has to be the silliest name for a computer ever
<popey> diplo: my main desktop is one, works fine (once I had the mobo replaced under warranty)
<ali1234> popey: did your laptop get fixed btw?
<popey> yeah, new mobo
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yo have bad luck with motherboards?
<popey> seems so
<popey> ipad broken now âº
<ali1234> this G19 keyboard is really bad for a Â£100 keyboard
<ali1234> drops letters all over the place, or reverses them
<ali1234> i might have to go back to the cheapy one
<diplo> popey, How noisey is it ?  not that it really matters.. I swear my dad is close to stone deaf
<diplo> :)
<gord> attempting to build a new xbmc on my revo today, this might take a while :(
<diplo> Oooh fresh install gord ?
<diplo> Been putting off doing mine for ages
<ali1234> why build native?
<gord> diplo, nope, i need a feature of ffmpeg that isn't available in the xbmc source, so i'm using some script someone made to merge it all together
<ali1234> wait revo isn't even arm, there's even less reason to build on the target
<BigRedS> I found my current keyboard down the back of a filing cabinet about six years ago. Its RRP is ~Â£7
<BigRedS> Oh, no, they're on ebay for a tenner
<gord> ali1234, because i have stuff to do and wasting a few hours building on the revo is fine in comparison to wasting my time on the desktop
<ali1234> BigRedS: i didn't pay for this kb, i wouldn't buy one
<BigRedS> ali1234: aha. Yeah, much as I like the idea of a model M or whatever, turns out cheap old keyboarsd are pretty durable and reasonable to type on
<diplo> You playing some special format gord ?
<ali1234> i mean i wouldn't have bought one anyway, but now i know what they are like i *really* woldn't buy one
<gord> diplo, 10bit encoded x264 video
<ali1234> a model M is a cheap old keyboard
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that's a good point
<BigRedS> they're just not cheap now
<ali1234> they're only expensive now because they are so rare
<ali1234> some guy quotes me $30 plus shipping for 1 key spring
<BigRedS> I am in the wrong bit of the computer industry
<ali1234> which reminds me
<popey> diplo: not too loud, only one fan on the cpu, and the disk
<diplo> OK, well two of you now have one I feel safer
<diplo> Can I ask what you guys have memory wise in your Revo's ?
<AlanBell> diplo: the zoostorm is fine, not very noisy (it was replacing one that was at least equally noisy)
<AlanBell> it is nice and fast
<gord> i think i have 4gb somethings in my revo diplo - its pretty easy to replace
<diplo> heh, I still have the standard 1gb
<bigcalm> diplo: I have the maximum 4gb in my revo. But it won't use it all
<diplo> Worried about upgrading with 12.04 and ram usage :)
<diplo> Works fine on lucid with 1gb tbh
<gord> my ram broke, new ram was so cheep that i bumped it up
<bigcalm> I'll put 12.04 onto my revo when it's ready
<popey> diplo: revo has 4GB here and an SSD
<diplo> Only reason I haven't ordered yet is I always forgoet to check model before coming to work
<diplo> and always forget at night with kids about
<diplo> SSD :(
<popey> why â¹
<diplo> Stretch my budget just to far
<popey> ahh
<bigcalm> Yes, Revo will get an SSD also
<diplo> Would love one for laptop/revo/other laptop
<diplo> PC
<diplo> Need some private work to treat myself really
<bigcalm> I have a 120gb SSD sitting on my desk waiting for 12.04 to be ready
<bigcalm> My laptop is panting in anticipation
<diplo> Grrr, don't rub it in!
<bigcalm> Save some pennies. They are _very_ slowly coming down in price
<bigcalm> Once you use an SSD, you will never want to use an HDD again
<gord> ehhhhhh
<bigcalm> Well, I don't want to
<gord> until you start hitting your memory limits and get frustrated ;)
<diplo> I have two kids living at home on my own, not a lot of chance to save.. it's either CC and pay off over a few months or nothing at the mo
<BigRedS> It seems like oodles of RAM. I'll not have a problem until I've had it and then had it taken away again.
<BigRedS> so I'm just going to not buy one
<BigRedS> and be happy with my spinning platters
<gord> my ssd is mostly only good in two situations, boot up speed and building software. given that i suspend my laptop all the time and only build software on there when i'm out and about, not really hugely inclined atm
<bigcalm> diplo: send the kids down the local mine
<diplo> heh, would love to monetize them... a mine would be good with all the bloody energy they have at the mo!
<diplo> Both have stonking colds and still running around like loonies yesterday at a play centre
<gord> hamster wheels, save on the electricity
 * popey stabs bug 936667 in the face
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 936667 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Upstart early job logging causes boot failure for systems with no initramfs (error is "No available ptys")" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936667
 * BigRedS wants his sysvinit back
 * popey wonders how to fix this
 * popey appens --no-log
 * bigcalm sadly gets out the laptop to test a windows only feature :(
<bigcalm> 5 screens is not healthy
 * diplo has 4 on the go :/
<bigcalm> If the skype plugin 'click-to-call' worked in Linux, I wouldn't need my laptop right now
<bigcalm> Damn you closed source systems!
<bigcalm> I bet even Windows would boot quickly on an SSD
<davmor2> bigcalm: well faster
<gord> windows boots pretty quickly even on a HDD these days, or at least 7 does on my desktop machine
<gord> not super quick, but quick enough that it doesn't bother me
<bigcalm> After the password prompt, I'm still waiting for a useable system
<gord> is that not just all the applications you have set to auto start?
<gord> i keep my windows install just for steam very light on the auto starts
<bigcalm> gord: it's probably the av taking its time
<gord> stop downloading viruses :P
<DJones> Here's a use for the Rasberry Pi http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bays-attacks-censorship-with-server-drones-120318/ :) 1st April yet?
<bigcalm> http://partners.rackspace.com/ working for anybody?
<ali1234> nope
<popey> Connection to 204.232.137.101 failed.
 * bigcalm grumbles
<bigcalm> Kind of puts you off buying from them
<christel> yes, dont do it
<christel> come to my movie premiere instead!
<czajkowski> http://www.rackspace.com/partners/  that works
<gord> ah, so it didn't work because bigcalm just made up a url ;)
<bigcalm> http://www.rackspace.co.uk/partner-programme/partner-portal/
<bigcalm> I followed the link from that page
<bigcalm> gord: isn't that how URLs work in the interwebs?
<gord> email webmaster@rackspace.com to inform them of their missing hyperlink!
<DJones> Or just use the "live chat" with an operator to point out that you would have bought something from them, but because their system doesn't work, you'll be going elsewhere (unless they give you a discount)
<czajkowski> the failed link gives you the correct url....
<bigcalm> No it doesn't
<bigcalm> That's not the login portal for partners
<czajkowski> bigcalm: Additional suggestions:
<czajkowski> Go to rackspace.Â­com/Â­partners/Â­
<czajkowski> Go to rackspace.Â­com
<bigcalm> Yes, only Chrome offers that for me
<bigcalm> FireFox doesn't
<czajkowski> bigcalm: use a propper browser :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: use a propper OS :P
<czajkowski> I do
<czajkowski> and my browser works also :)
<bigcalm> So do mine. It's not the web browser at fault
<bigcalm> It's all Linux's fault!
<bigcalm> Rarrrr
<daubers> personally, I blame it on the boogie
 * BigRedS blames it on the good times
<daubers> As long as we all agree not to blame it on the sunshine
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski cause he hasn't in a while :P
<christel> :o
<kirrus> what's the freenode ops channel? I think I've found an IRC-botnet that uses a freenode channel as it's C&C
<christel> #freenode -- though you're welcome to pm me if you want :)
<kirrus> Cool :)
<BigRedS> kirrus: no apostrophe!
<BigRedS> Well, two of them are OK in that sentence, but not the third.
<popey> can someone confirm bug 959505 pls
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 959505 in gedit (Ubuntu) "gedit wants to save in "recently used" by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959505
<MartijnVdS> can I disable "Recently Used"?
<MartijnVdS> I've already uninstalled zeitgeist
<popey> âº
<kirrus> popey: just want someone to duplicate it, and then change bug status, right?
<kirrus> If so, confirmed
<popey> ta
<AlanBell> I don't like recently used either
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: especially the defaulting on it
<MartijnVdS> I don't mind that it's _there_
<MartijnVdS> but the fact that all "File -> Open" and "File -> Save" dialogs start in it bugs me
<popey> +1
<AlanBell> yeah, it is mostly harmless, I just don't trust it
<MartijnVdS> turning off "logging" (in the shiny new privacy screen) also doesn't disable it
<AlanBell> I guess if I could see the path of things before opening them I would be happier
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but you used it recently! you must know where it is
<AlanBell> well not for certain
<AlanBell> if I have a file called __openerp__.py that was used recently it could be in any of 124 different folders
<MartijnVdS> Hmm, more "The Tube" tonight
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<popey> the what?
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dzm9y
<popey> not seen any of that
<popey> i should
 * popey kicks get_iplayer
<MartijnVdS> \o/ get_iplayer
<MartijnVdS> uhr.. \o/ record_dvbstream
<s-fox> Going running, goodbye
<awilkins> Back at work one day. Tedium already seeping into bones.
<AlanBell> oh la la http://www.le-libriste.fr/2012/03/ubuntu-unity-window-quicklists/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's in Frenchish!
<AlanBell> oui
<jacobw> ja
<MartijnVdS> si
<jacobw> paralell
<Azelphur> Random things, I was watching star trek TNG last night and Data said he has "800 quadrillion bits" of memory capacity, and he could perform 60 trillion computational operations per second. I took computational operations per second to be FLOPS. Worked it all out, Data has a 90,949TB HDD and a CPU 550 times as powerful as a hex core i7 960 XE \o/
<jacobw> that's nice
<jacobw> have you taken your medication today?
<ali1234> but the starship enterprise on has 2TB
<Azelphur> jacobw: no xD
<ali1234> according to the first episode
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, bit of a discrepancy there
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: & Spanish: http://www.atareao.es/ubuntu/software-para-tu-ubuntu/unity-window-quicklists-o-encontrar-la-ventana-que-buscas/
<ali1234> yes. in the later series they switched to using meaningless made up words
<jacobw> they deployed an enterprise storage solution ;)
<jacobw> (i'm sorry)
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I must have been ready for the Enterprise
<ali1234> gene roddenberry was all about trying to be realistic with the sci fi and use real stuff - but that ends up seeming dated. where as berman and that other guy were just like "this is dumb sci fi, let's make it stupid"
<MartijnVdS> "Hurr-durr octoquads"
<ali1234> exatly
<ging> 7
<ging> oops
<MartijnVdS> ging: [7]?
<ging> was flicking tabs
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ah you're a redditor ;)
<Azelphur> I am?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I thought you understood the [7] :)
<ging> note sure how i pressed enter
<Azelphur> nope xD
<gordonjcp> right, any openerp-ers about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes gordonjcp
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.reddit.com/comments/dvwxd/what_do_the_singledigit_numbers_in_square/ :)
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: aha, I'm just looking at your site
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: so you reckon installing 6.1 instead of the stock packages?
<Azelphur> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> It depends on what you want really. It isn't hard to do from the source tarball and I find it easier to deal with mods and changes to OpenERP this way. You won't break dpkg.
<gordonjcp> tbh I want a mostly fit-and-forget install
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think something like sudo dpkg --force-depends install openerp-6,1.deb
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you are on 10.04 you'll need to update werkzueg.
<gordonjcp> ah, 11.04 server
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno on 11.04. But sudo pip install werkzeug will do it anyway.
<TheOpenSourcerer> you need > 0.8 AIUI
<gordonjcp> hmm
<gordonjcp> tbh I think openerp is a bit heavyweight for what I want
<TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: what is it you want to do?
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: I want a stock control system
<gordonjcp> accounting would be good, but not necessary
<TheOpenSourcerer> OpenERP is rather good at that sort of thing. But with goodness comes some level of complexity and setting up. What stock are you managing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> btw - happy to discuss offline tomorrow is that suits.
<gordonjcp> radio parts, and radios
<gordonjcp> mostly
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\if
<gordonjcp> offline?
<TheOpenSourcerer> meants off Ubuntu-uk.
<gordonjcp> ah, okay
<TheOpenSourcerer> or you could visit #openobject
<gordonjcp> well I'll poke this some more, although I think I'll drop it back to 5 until I get my head around it
<TheOpenSourcerer> 6.1 is *much* better
<gordonjcp> hmm
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Im not a poser, honest! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/03/19/im-not-a-poser-honest/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=im-not-a-poser-honest
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-20
<mcbaine2> hi there..
<mattt> waaaa
<mcbaine2> hi mattt
<mattt> mcbaine2: morning
<mcbaine2> hi what your bang os spanners upto today ??
<mcbaine2> **of
<mcbaine2> **what's
<mattt> huh?
<mattt> try that one again
<mcbaine2> bag of spanners means what topic of conversation for today about the internet ??
<mattt> mcbaine2: i getcha
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> Hm. Missed Dirk Gently yesterday
<DJones> bigcalm: When you're around, do you mind a few questions about your xoom
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I have a xoom, what do you want to know
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Thanks, I was wondering how well they work, does it connect to ubuntu, have you had an update to Android 4.0
<DJones> Does it work with streaming tv (ipleayer etc)
<DJones> From what I can see, it should connect to ubuntu, seems like tehre were problems with 10.04, possibly fixed in later versions
<DJones> ICS seems to be planned for march
<DJones> Debating whether to get work to buy me oneAnd there's a website that I think uses java or flash (can't remember which) I could do with somebody testing to see if it works
<DJones> And, last question, does it have teh full android market
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I have ICS, and the full android market
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I've re-flashed it with the US firmware (to get ICS early)
<DJones> Thats a good start
<MartijnVdS> Connecting to Ubuntu works in 12.04, but Banshee hangs sometimes
<DJones> I probably wouldn't be botehr about banshee, more just transferring mp3s via nautilus
<DJones> And video
<MartijnVdS> that would work, but opening the folder for the first time is teh slow
<DJones> Do you have yours to hand to check a website for me
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning pretties
<AlanBell> christel: \o/
 * DJones preens in the mirror
<AlanBell> we need to sort out a pub lunch
<christel> yes! we do
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: popey: anyone else are you in the Farnham area on Friday for a lunch?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: This Friday could work. I'm on a session with some Dad's from the school in the evening so could just make a day of it :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Perhaps we could try and do some potential office views in the morning?
<AlanBell> that sounds good
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Good morning lovelies :)
<bigcalm> DJones: 1) ICS isn't available to UK users yet, though I'm holding out for an OTA update rather than using an US ROM, 2) iPlayer works wonderfully :), 3) I don't bother to connect to a machine yet, 4) I've seen no firm dates for a UK ICS update :(, 5) Flash works 100% from my usage so far, 6) This is a big name brand tablet - full market as standard
<bigcalm> DJones: what web site did you want testing?
<DJones> bigcalm: Thanks, sounds promising, from what I'd read, ICS sounds like its due this month
<bigcalm> davmor2 had me believing that it would be out early Feb
<DJones> bigcalm: www.hifx.co.uk Then click on Marketwatch, then currency charts
<bigcalm> I won't listen to speculation until I see it
<bigcalm> Ok, one mo. Seems I turned it off last night
<DJones> This is what I picked up on for ICS (March to May) it suggests http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44455/motorola-ice-cream-sandwich-updates
<DJones> The website should show a moving currency/exchange rate graph if it works
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting review of Samsung ICS on the Galaxy SII vs CM9 http://www.osnews.com/story/25694/CyanogenMod_9_alpha_puts_Samsung_to_shame
<bigcalm> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_iDpcFU8qU
<DJones> bigcalm: That just seemed to have some gray blocks for adding currencies, if you can see the "Currency charts" near the top middle of the screen, could you just try that for me, no need to video, all I'm hoping is that it shows a graph
<bigcalm> Ah, I see that link now :)
<DJones> Just realised, I can check it on my phone as well, that doesn't seem to be working
<bigcalm> Blank area sorry
<DJones> Just get a white space where it should be
<DJones> Thanks for checking anyway#
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: interesting, I have been checking for the official ICS upgrade, nothing available yet
<DJones> bigcalm: Thats disappointing, that was my main argument for getting work to buy me one (not enough screen space on my desktop to have those on screen all the time), but luckily, there does seem to be a 3rd party app for that
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<DJones> Is it bad when you're getting work to but a tablet for you and you make sure that all the things for personal use work first before checking that the thing you want it for for work will actually work
<czajkowski> lol
<oimon> went to soft play yesterday with my kid. achievement unlocked!
<oimon> so much fun :D
<DJones> oimon: Did the kid enjoy it though?
<oimon> yes, him too
<oimon> only a little more than me
<oimon> probably the best daddy /son time you can have
<oimon> until he learns to play football and program computers
<balor> Waive VAT on #RaspberryPi epetition  - http://bit.ly/GApUUt
<balor> czajkowski, is this where you hide now?
<czajkowski> balor: hiya
<czajkowski> balor: always been here
<czajkowski> the religion politics disucssions elsewhere are a bit ott so I avoid at all costs
<DJones> And we don't bite :)
<christel> czajkowski loves a spot of religious politics!
<czajkowski> christel: oh no this channel just takes it to the extreme.
<czajkowski> balor: hows you?
<czajkowski> how are the wee monsters?
<balor> czajkowski, Good.  Got my PhD viva next week
<balor> czajkowski, they're all good.  Now sleeping through the night
<czajkowski> balor: ohh :D
<czajkowski> balor: how old ar ethey now
<gord> we should all have religiously fueled politics discussions about physics problems on the internet! that'll go well!
<czajkowski> balor: real world job now ?
<oimon> i watched pirates of silicon valley over the weekend - anyone seen it?
<balor> czajkowski, I work in the real world.  I shield you guys from people you don't want to hire :)
<czajkowski> balor: you teach them smart stuff yet ?
<balor> czajkowski, yeah, we're pushing some interesting things.
<balor> czajkowski, cluttermm for one.  And some Android stuff
 * balor is now the clutter-box2dmm maintainer
<czajkowski> balor: yay
<popey> AlanBell: i can't. I have a funeral
<AlanBell> ok, sorry to hear that
<bigcalm> :(
<oimon> google+ is suggesting i add popey 's obsoleted account to my circles
<popey> my best friends mum â¹
 * popey is getting to that age where there will only be more funerals
<oimon> popey, :( it's depressing that there's some friends i know i'll only see next because of a death (boo) or a marriage (yay)
<popey> oh joy, my desktop wont boot
<popey> lots of "error: no such partition. "
<bigcalm> Mobo again?
<gord> hopefully just needs a drive reseat?
<gord> my motherboards usbs are all shot apart from one or two ports. its usb hub city here
<popey> this is my zoostorm desktop
<popey> i was booted, did updates, rebooted, now this
<bigcalm> Not healthy
 * popey boots to bios
<bigcalm> Bai bai
 * popey has more than one pc âº
<bigcalm> Yay
<popey> can see disks in bios
<bigcalm> xulrunner wants to update. Whenever I see that it makes me think of 'There is no Dena, only Xool'
<popey> guess i need a usb stick then
<Nafallo> hmmm
<oimon> popey seems to have a knack for breaking quite new hardware
<popey> 5 computers on my desk, most work okay âº
<Nafallo> popey: only reason being that you can just use one at a time? ;-)
<popey> âº
<Nafallo> right. I need to reboot so I can get my bluetooth back
<Nafallo> bbiab
<oimon> popey, how many have died in your arms in the last month or so? thinkpad, ipad, zoostorm?
<popey> heh
<oimon> maybe you shouldn't take them to bed with you
<oimon> they get smothered
<oimon> with love
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> yes
<oimon> another beautiful day in london
<davmor2> morning all you funky people
<davmor2> oh and czajkowski
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> Adam will be driving himself in this week (stuff to sell) so I don't have to worry about leaving early
<bigcalm> The trouble is, I enjoy myself there too much and don't want to leave
<Laney> ha "command from laney: echo [Happy Birthday Screen -- http://bit.ly/screen-bday]" when reattaching today
<bigcalm> Laney: it's your b'day or is it screen's?
<Laney> the latter
<Laney> Mar 20 1987
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> So young
<oimon> anyone know about these fixed-rate ISAs? what happens when they mature?
<oimon> answered my own question If we don't hear from you before your ISA matures we'll transfer your money to a new Instant Access ISA, this transfer will not count as a new ISA subscription so will not affect your annual allowance.
<popey> hello feisar__
<feisar__> hi
<feisar__> how's things?
<popey> tickety boo âº
<feisar__> still getting plenty of mentions on linux outlaws
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah, i was listening last night whilst on the train
<feisar__> I haven't heard it recently I'll have to catch up
<feisar__> I will be going live with 12.04 server for work soon
<feisar__> I'm enjoying working on it, beta 1 seems very stable
<DJones> feisar__: Do you mind a pm?
<feisar__> no, go ahead
<DJones> Thanks
<bigcalm> PPTP VPN connection works via Network Manager, how would I set it up to work from the CLI?
<Nafallo> bigcalm: nmcli ?
<bigcalm> Nafallo: This will be from a RedHat Enterprise server
<bigcalm> Ah, PPTP Client :)
<bigcalm> Can you set up networking so that requests for 1 IP address get sent over the VPN while all other traffic goes via normal routes?
<oimon> anyone using chromium, please open http://www.nationwide.co.uk/savings/default.htm and check system monitor for CPU
<oimon> kills my CPU with firefox too :(
<oimon> flash is awesome
<gord> yeah plugin-container eats up 200% cpu here
<oimon> suckamoto
<arsen> nice :<
<arsen> how is zoostorm stuff? seems to be fotm, got some people i need to recommend kit to
<AlanBell> arsen: it is cheap, basic, mostly unbranded and comes without an operating system
<AlanBell> works just fine, and is cheaper than building from parts
<arsen> orly. nice.
<directhex> where's the fun in that?
<arsen> stressfre! till it breaks!
<arsen> hi directhex :)
<AlanBell> well still stress free as it is a nice big box with standard components in it
<arsen> i dont have time to provide desktop support to family these days :<
<s-fox> Hello :)
<mattt> s-fox: ohai
<popey> bug 960269
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 960269 in unity "Dash search doesn't find sensible result" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960269
 * oimon works in a basement office with a tiny window near the ceiling, but for one minute a day, at 2.52pm, if the sun is out, it shines onto me and my desk. i live for that moment.aahhhh
<jacobw> lol
<oimon> actually, i've found that if i slouch, i get a few more minutes
<oimon> i dare not tell my colleagues, as there's no other windows in this office
<arsen> lol oimon
<arsen> very IT crowd.
<oimon> :(
<arsen> that's sucky, where are you?
<oimon> there's even a server room very much like the IT crowd one right near my door
<oimon> arsen, university , but tbh the IT guys always get the worst desks. there's bars on the windows
<arsen> :(
<arsen> i can probably see you from here, actually
<arsen> sorry, i /whois'd :)
<oimon> arsen, my old office had a view of the whole city
<oimon> best office on whole campus
<arsen> actually i can DEFINITELY see you from here
<arsen> from my desk infact, thought id have to move
<arsen> hah.
 * oimon waves
<oimon> arsen, where are you?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Step away from the localStorage - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/03/20/step-away-from-the-localstorage
<arsen> tower42 :)
<oimon> ah, i used to work in gherkin
<arsen> yeh, my desk overlooks ye' ole' gherkin
<oimon> so i could have waved to you, and you would have seen me
<oimon> my desk was on  the side facing the tower 42
<arsen> hah. winner.
<arsen> what did you do there?:)
<oimon> same as here. make stuff work and stop stuff from breaking.
<oimon> linux stuff mainly
<arsen> standard.
<popey> bug 960288
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 960288 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Notify OSD bubble sometimes appears as a single line of pixels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960288
<aquarius> AlanBell, lol at the comments on your unity-window-quicklists thing. "Your problem is that you're managing windows when you should be using emacs!" :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: indeed
<AlanBell> I think OMG Ubuntu is about to do an article on it
<aquarius> AlanBell, I applaud you for keeping your temper and saying "no, I'm fine, the solution is not to have some other app manage my editor windows for me" :)
<AlanBell> just turned up in their RSS feed, but the article isn't there yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Yesterday there were a lot or referrers from OMG: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/ubuntu-12-04-quicklists/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 107 to be precise...
<AlanBell> I think that was from the comments in that article, there is a new full article about them in the works
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<AlanBell> it is in the RSS feed, but not published, I think we will get several more referrers when that goes live
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
<DJones> All you need then is for somebody to reference the article from /.
<TheOpenSourcerer> moar RAM required. We've been there before. In the OOXML wars
<TheOpenSourcerer> 4,707 views on your busiest day, July 24, 2009
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - no it was for this post: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/21/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/
<TheOpenSourcerer> from /. & linuxtoday.com
<DJones> I guess although its a pain on bandwidth/costs/keeping the site up & running, presumably it gives you a good feeling that people have an interest/opinion in what you're writing about
<oimon> popey, how on earth did you wangle a new ipad
<popey> i told them mine was broken
<TheOpenSourcerer> a #3 popey? http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2012/03/third-gen-ipad-operating-well-within-our-thermal-specifications-says-apple.ars
<AlanBell> search referrers are funny
<TheOpenSourcerer> 92.48Â°F phew.
<AlanBell> we have had 21 hits for the search term "build openerp6.1on ubnatu" today
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i expect a like-for-like replacement
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the fact that Google passed 285 visitors to us. Bing has passed 5 (which is quite high for Bing)
<DJones> What was broken on it? Guy at work broke his just out of warranty, apple wouldn't replace it for free, just gave him a big(ish) discount and wanted the old one back (cracked screen), he had to pay extra to retain it
<oimon> is it true that an ipad 3 takes all night to charge?
<popey> 7 hours from empty I saw reports of
<oimon> wow
<oimon> i heard they had made improvements in battery tech tho. i wonder if that's secret , or we'll all benefit eventually
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: It's just a big battery from what I read.
<oimon> batteries in general need some serious improvements
<TheOpenSourcerer> made a bit smaller.
<popey> yeah, for a big screen âº
<popey> the screen is omg-amazing
<oimon> i read something else, but don't remember where
<TheOpenSourcerer> What we need is graphene capacitors.
<popey> bug 960327
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 960327 in unity "Hud window grows down, cutting text in half" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960327
<gord> i wish popey would narrate all my bugs
<popey> hah
 * czajkowski shouldn't comment on popey G+ threads, they get lots of notifications
<popey> âº
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, i see what you mean now. they've just made the battery more dense. probably leading to thermal problems. nothing too exciting
<popey> wonder if ipad will arrive before lengthy flight to UDS
<popey> can fill it up with films and telly
<Laney> kindle++ for flights
<gord> i generally just fill up the laptop, has enough battery for enough tv
<popey> sophie has my kindle now
<czajkowski> 10hrs nad 50 min flight
<gord> and it stands up on its own
<czajkowski> am not loking forward to sitting down for that long
 * popey wonders who is on same flight as me
 * popey wonders if tripit knows
<TheOpenSourcerer> Go Virgin Upperclass. Sit at the bar :-)
<gord> i'm guessing the entire design team
<Laney> dunno what that is
 * Laney is 14:10 on may 05
<Laney> UA931
<popey> BA285 on Apr 29th
<czajkowski> tritpit++
<czajkowski> 10:35am on May 5th
<Laney> i don't have any trendy devices to use cool things like that
<gord> i should really book my tickets
<Laney> ah 10:35 was one i turned down because it would have meant travelling down to london the night before
<Laney> never flown united to know if they are any good
<bigcalm> gord: done your expenses yet? ;)
<gord> bigcalm, you are confusing me with someone responsible
<czajkowski> Laney: aye LHR is only about 30 mins from here really
<bigcalm> Haha
<Laney> nottingham is a bit further :(
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what flight you on ?
<gord> is half of #u-uk coming this time then?
<Laney> when do we get a UK UDS again?
 * TheOpenSourcerer was wondering that too. Not on our calendar yet.
<Dave2> win 55
<AlanBell> czajkowski: BA saturday morning
<davmor2> Laney: never
 * bigcalm is not going
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs to know when 50% of the workforce are away on a jolly ;-)
<AlanBell> :)
<bigcalm> Yeah, 2 men companies (like the one I work for) can be a bugger when you want to take time off
<AlanBell> 11:30 hrs 	
<AlanBell> BA285
<AlanBell> Saturday 5th
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hopefully AlanBell will only represent 33% in the near future, then even less & less etc...
<czajkowski> 10:35BST land at 13:25 PDT
<gord> the goal being to make AlanBell irrelevant?
<AlanBell> sounds like a good plan
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get others to do the work. we get to go on more jollies.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<Laney> i should probably shave before then
<gord> \o/ jollies
 * Laney shaggy
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I land at 14:20 hrs
<AlanBell> czajkowski: are you going to Oakland directly?
<Dave2> 3 hours? That's a short flight.
<AlanBell> and a 7 hour time difference :)
<Dave2> I bet the flight back takes aaaages though
<popey> Wifey asked if I was keeping the face fuzz too
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh ?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: are you staying at the Mariott on the saturday
<czajkowski> yup
<davmor2> AlanBell: you get to go to UDS :'(
<AlanBell> ok, I am staying in a hotel on the SF side of the bay, then going to Alcatraz in the morning
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ah cool, am using it as a day of rest and doing diddly squat
<Dave2> My memories of SF: "this is really quite cold". (This was when I was...9.)
<Laney> I might go check out the Golden Gate
<Laney> there looks to be a huge national park on the other side of it
<tugrik> aw, SF is lovely... but I only made it to the Golden Gate bridge, not beyond
<Laney> hmm I could hire a bike
<tugrik> how long you there for?
<Laney> week but only free on the sunday really
<tugrik> then national park sounds good - but do Alcatraz if you've the time and money, with the audio tour too
<tugrik> my experience is several years old, so I'm presuming it's as good - but the place has a definite eerieness about it
<MartijnVdS> alcatraz is great, if you can make an evening tour it's better
<tugrik> heh. middle of the day was bad enough
<MartijnVdS> tugrik: they do extra "horror" stories and presentations at night :)
<AlanBell> yeah, but I will be wide awake for the early tour
<AlanBell> leaving at 9am local, which is 16:00 UTC
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did the Alcatraz tour + audio. Was rather moving...
<TheOpenSourcerer> The noise of the cell bars closing etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sanoma County - North side of the bridge has some great wineries :-)
<gord> kind of annoying when i'm trying to find info on an issue and the one thread of hope is some forum post that ends with a moderator saying its in the wrong section
<czajkowski> gord: was there any point into which section it was to go ?
<gord> czajkowski, yeah, but without a link to the new topic it might as well be lost forever
<czajkowski> gord: :(
<czajkowski> perhaps s-fox could help
<gord> czajkowski, wasn't on ubuntu forums or anything ;)
<czajkowski> ah
<czajkowski> nm so
<czajkowski> hmm need to esta wavier
<czajkowski> last one is out of date
<s-fox> Nothing to do with us, sorry gord
<nothingspecial> you have a problem with a forum thread gord?
<nothingspecial> ooops sorry :)
<gord> yes, please fix a random website on the internet for me!
<nothingspecial> I was in the middle of a couple of other things and the conversation had moved on by the time I asked :D
<popey> czajkowski: ooh! i think i had to do one for florida so I should be okay
<czajkowski> popey: lasts for 2 years so yeah you shuold be my last one was free this one is gonna cost
<czajkowski> also need to book some heathrow express tickets
<czajkowski> have a few trips to airport and at 15% cheaper online - smart move!
 * popey wonders if davmor2 is testing features in USC
<davmor2> popey: not at all
<davmor2> popey: I'm testing Ubuntu Application Directory :P
<popey> heh
<popey> where?
<davmor2> popey: the live version is at apps.ubuntu.com
<popey> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/search/oneiric/?q=porn
<popey> that works then]
<davmor2> popey: yeap
<popey> should I be able to see non-english reviews?
<popey> or is that a bug?
<davmor2> popey: although I blame chrisccoulson I'm pretty sure he had a fix to call it kittenview
<popey> where do I file bugs against this website?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've still got the patch for pornview on my machine ;)
<chrisccoulson> trying to keep p0rn separate from work though. don't want to end up doing this: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/d30ae1c692ff53c3?pli=1
<popey> indeed
<davmor2> popey: I'd wait to be honest there is a huge rollout going to happen shortly that has a load of changes but after that feel free to hit it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/application-web-catalog
<popey> I'll file a bug otherwise I'll forget
<popey> what the hell.. there wer 4 reviews just now, now there's 3
<davmor2> popey: people are constantly monitoring the reviews to be sure that they are valid and abide by the COC-ish rules
<davmor2> popey: that or it is playing with your head :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: on this maplin multi voltage thing, I just set voltage to the same as the output on the logitech plug (5v) and positive to the pin right?
<Azelphur> don't need to find a switch for amps or something
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: the current isn't important, as long as the power supply has a higher rating than the thing you want to power
<Azelphur> yea this new one does like 2500mA or something old one does 500
<gordonjcp> just get the voltage right and the current will sort itself out
<Azelphur> cool :)
<Azelphur> seems to work, hopefully this will stop my keyboard continually boot looping
<gordonjcp> keyboard/
<gordonjcp> ?
<Azelphur> yea I have a fancy gaming keyboard with an LCD display on it
<Azelphur> but Logitech cheaped out on the PSU, so it keeps boot looping
<gordonjcp> heh
<Azelphur> well, there goes that plan, this supply causes it to boot loop too :(
<Azelphur> only much quicker
<Azelphur> which is annoying because the old supply is 2.4 and this is 2.5
<Azelphur> :<
<gordonjcp> should be close enough
<Azelphur> the goal was for it to be a tad more, the stock power supply doesn't give it enough power, it's a known issue
<Azelphur> silly G19 :(
<Azelphur> wow, ##linux is stupid, they disallow any talk of torrents, at all
<Azelphur> WildPikachu:Â If I had someone discussing torrents in general, I would pm them, then +q if they continued ||Â mosno:Â WildPikachu, even if you had no reason to suspect that there was unlawful use? ||Â WildPikachu:Â yes, I would make them very aware that while they are not being accused of doing anything unlawful the discussion around torrents is highly discouraged
<Azelphur> or in my case, I got instantly kicked for even mentioning it
<Azelphur> last thing I'd expect from a linux channel, absolutely ridiculous
<Azelphur> I wish there was some way we could take the channel off of that guy, he really shouldn't have control over ##linux with an attitude like that
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<lazarus_> im trying to follow this guide with no luck http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8699742&postcount=537
<Azelphur> ?elaborate | lazarus_
<Azelphur> doooh, wrong trigger :P
<Azelphur> !elaborate | lazarus_
<lubotu3> lazarus_: Please elaborate, your question or issue may not seem clear or detailed enough for people to help you. Please give more detailed information, errors, steps, and possibly configuration files (use the !pastebin to avoid flooding the channel)
<lazarus_> Azelphur: im trying to root my cell under linux following that guide
<Azelphur> well yea...I gathered that much
<Azelphur> as I said, Please give more detailed information, errors, steps
<lazarus_> there is a part which mentions some dependacies to get adb working and i cand seem to install them
<directhex> "a part" meaning the first line?
<lazarus_> lib32ncurses5 and lib32stdc++
<Azelphur> lib32stdc++ seems to have been renamed to lib32stdc++6
<directhex> it will never have existed without the soname.
<directhex> that guide is full of package name errors
<popey> directhex: game.co.uk have a load of games pre-owned for a few quid, any reason not to get a few?
<lazarus_> i get no results when i look for them in synaptic
<Azelphur> lazarus_: what phone do you have btw?
<lazarus_> samsung gt 15500
<lazarus_> running android 2.2.1
<Azelphur> hehe
<lazarus_> am i missing somthing
<Azelphur> lazarus_: I told you what the package name was?
<lazarus_> i get no hits in synaptic tho
<Azelphur> what Ubuntu version are you on?
<lazarus_> 11.10 32bit
<Azelphur> !info lib32stdc++6
<directhex> popey: as long as they're not crap
<lubotu3> Package lib32stdc++6 does not exist in oneiric
<Azelphur> lies? :O
<directhex> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/lib32stdc++6
<Azelphur> what's up with that lol
<popey> directhex: yeah, reading reviews
<popey> directhex: wow, perfect dark was that bad?
<directhex> popey: or you could ask me
<Azelphur> popey: you have an outdoor camera setup right? My friend wanted to set up some surveillance on the cheap do you have any recommendations? :)
<popey> Azelphur: recommendations for what?
<Azelphur> software / hardware
<lazarus_> but installing this would make no sense as its packaged for 64bit
<Azelphur> ie, specific cameras, what software do you use, that sort of thing
<popey> i use a logitech pro 9000, and webcam
<Azelphur> for outside? :o
<Azelphur> doesn't it get rained on
<popey> its not outside
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> directhex: gears of war 2, alone in the dark, bioshock, fallout new vegas
<popey> "Total to pay Â£14.92"
 * lazarus_ owns gears 1,2,3 woop
<lazarus_> i bought them for Â£10 each
<directhex> popey: AitD is rather meh
<directhex> popey: the rest are good
<popey> cool
<popey> ta
<popey> CoD?
<popey> any of them?
<popey> MW2?
<AlanBell> popey: did that get rebuilt as kittyview?
<popey> 17:51:53 < chrisccoulson> yeah, i've still got the patch for pornview on my machine ;)
<directhex> popey: i don't think anyone plays CoD for the singleplayerr
 * AlanBell thinks chrisccoulson should commit the patch
<chrisccoulson> AlanBell, i was going to. but one of my colleagues pointed out that if i provoked people on unity-design that i might get told off by mark ;)
<AlanBell> don't post it there then, just quietly put the patch through
<AlanBell> it isn't a design issue, or about unity
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: any way to turn off the irritating annoying stupid bell noise on thunderbird when you delete folders?
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: evening
<chrisccoulson> hi czajkowski
<chrisccoulson> i don't think i've ever heard that :)
<czajkowski> try deleting a folder :)
<czajkowski> found the turn off button for new mail that awas annoying
 * AlanBell wonders how you delete folders often enough for it to be annoying, don't think I have ever deleted one
<popey> i have never deleted one either
<popey> made _loads_ :D
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I made my Thunderbird not check mail unless I tell it to
<popey> loving these cheap prices of xbox games, and minimal money going to microsoft :D
<MartijnVdS> That helped a lot :)
<jacobw> mail clients should be silent
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: any way to  stop TB warning you that you are changing folder and sending out the error bong when you hit n to get to the next unread message?
<czajkowski> davmor2: ohb yes
<Azelphur> well, this is disappointing, ##linux blocks all discussion about torrents whether legal or not, I've been to channel and network ops, and can't seem to get anything done about it :/
<Azelphur> for example yesterday I went there and asked for a recommendation for a Linux torrent client and got kicked without warning.
<davmor2> Azelphur: don't mention the word torrent then
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> just seems so stupid and backwards baring in mind it's how most Linux distros distribute their isos
<Azelphur> and I hate the whole "all torrent use = piracy" thing, baring in mind there's so much free good content out there now :/
<davmor2> Azelphur: but at the same time "Linux" can't be seen to be encouraging use of torrenting because the word does conjure up the whole illegal part it's a lovely catch 22
<Azelphur> I think the opposite tbh, Linux should be encouraging the use of torrenting
<gordonjcp> like World of Warcraft does
<Azelphur> exactly
<Azelphur> By discouraging torrenting, all your doing in effect is stamping on the little guy
<davmor2> Azelphur: Distro's Can,  Linux can't that's the difference
<popey> Azelphur: what do you want to torrent?
<Azelphur> popey: haha, I already got my question answered elsewhere, I read about utorrents video streaming feature and thought it'd be cool to have something native that does it, it seems that tribbler does :p
<davmor2> Azelphur: don't forget Linux as a kernel is never really bit torrented,  but to save on a distro's bandwidth they tend to ask you to and actively encourage it
<Azelphur> davmor2: *shrug* I don't see why Linux can't
<davmor2> Azelphur: because linux is a kernel and isn't torrented and linux is trying to promote itself to good old wholesome business that never do anything illegal at all ever honest gov'nor
<Azelphur> popey: that said you do know me, I am a self admitted pirate, but at the same time I use my torrent client for lots of legal stuff too, I do download my Linux distros via torrent, and watch various free licensed shows (pioneer one, the yes men) via torrents.
<Azelphur> davmor2: ##linux is "We provide help and support for any Linux distribution"
<Azelphur> "Discussion about the various aspects of Linux and Free/Open source software is also encouraged" -- except torrent clients apparently :D
<Azelphur> those are quotes from the front page of their website, btw
<jacobw> bittorrent is a networking topic :|
<jacobw> the linux kernel is primarily used for.. networking!
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> asking about bit torrent clients that run on linux.... seems fair enough asking linux users if you ask me ;)
<Azelphur> shame freenode won't do anything about it though :(
<davmor2> jacobw: I thought it was less networking and more beer drinking to be honest
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, that's exactly what I did when I got kicked...I was like what o.O
<ali1234> ##linux is an awful channel
<hamitron> most linux channels are from my experience.... this channel seems an exception
<Azelphur> ali1234: agree'd I usually only go there if I have a question and it's like 4am in the morning and everyone in here is asleep xD
<Azelphur> Indeed, I love this channel, it's one of the best (If not the best) large channel I've seen
<ali1234> every time i go to ##linux i find someone calling someone else "noob" in order to cover up their own lack of knowledge
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<ali1234> also ##linux isn't about linux the kernel, we have #kernel for that
<ali1234> or ##kernel i forget which
<hamitron> what is with all the multi-hash?
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> ## = unofficial
<hamitron> ah
<MartijnVdS> they're on more hash
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> which also explains the behaviour
<Azelphur> LOL
<popey> Azelphur: noob!
<Azelphur> popey: NO U.
<Azelphur> popey: did you see the spoutcraft client for minecraft btw?
<popey> no
<Azelphur> basically...you should use it, it's all round better.
<Azelphur> 30-50% performance increase, lots more config options
<popey> however I did see on xbox marketplace about eleventybillion minecraft clones
<Azelphur> includes latest libraries to fix the sticky keys bug >.>
<Azelphur> it's not a clone, it's a fork of the client
<Azelphur> they are just fixing loads of things that mojang doesn't fix, it's really quite nice
<popey> neat
<Azelphur> and maintains compatibility with vanilla servers of course
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> Quiet  in here :)
<bigcalm> Boo
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Got to say I do like Cinnamon
<bigcalm> Why so?
<jacobw> It's very tasty
<diplo> Partially i guess win7 feel
<diplo> It's smoother
<diplo> Quicker than unity ( 11.10 )
<bigcalm> Oh, you weren't talking about something you eat?
<jacobw> Er, 'win7 feel'?
<jacobw> What is that?
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Well for a lot of users it's going to be a easier transition
<diplo> + I don't mind Win7 tbh
<jacobw> How long will it be maintained for? Where is it going?
<jacobw> I wouldn't want to move a group of users on to a platform that's just not gnome-shell or unity
<popey> GNOME 2 (2 panel) failed to gain traction for the last what 10 years
<popey> fail to see how cinnamon will fix that
<popey> it's fine for nerds, not for my mum
 * jacobw is planning a migration from gnome2 to unity
<Azelphur> I like unity myself, although I don't use it, it is refreshing to see people trying to change the status quo on desktop layout
<Azelphur> Perhaps when it's more polished I may switch to it
<jacobw> It's been around for a while now..
<Azelphur> last time I checked it still falls over and dies with separate X screens, which rules me out
<bigcalm> popey: has any of your nerd powers rubbed off on your mum yet?
<popey> no
<popey> upgraded her to 12.04
<popey> not had a single call about the computer yet
<daubers> "nerd powers">
<daubers> ?
<Azelphur> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bAVQaYX8ybA/TQyhvPE9PeI/AAAAAAAAAw4/PqrhlTwGzXw/s400/superhero-nerd-cartoon-character.png
 * Azelphur runs
<diplo> Going to use unity when i upgrade my pc to 12.04
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu Active on ARM - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4546
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-21
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<hoover> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning.
<diplo> So how is everyone this over cast morning ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Morning all!
<bigcalm> It's a popey!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amazing! http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/human-bird-wings/
<AlanBell> it is, I watched that several times yesterday
<oimon> diplo, sunny in london, another lovely daty
<diplo> BAH!
<diplo> :(
<oimon> not that i'll get out till 5pm
<shauno> I almost resent when it's a lovely day and I'm stuck in the office.  thankfully it's a rare event here
 * TheOpenSourcerer likes lovely datys
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to go and put my chilli plants in the greenhouse...
<diplo> oimon, At least I have a window!
<diplo> A big window!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, that was amazing.. wish therewas more details about it
<gordonjcp> `:-)
<gordonjcp> -`
<gordonjcp> it's a lovely day here
<gordonjcp> so I'm off out to drill holes in vans
<gord> is gordonjcp in the A-Team now?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<gordonjcp> I'll take a photo of the sunshine and post it on twitter for you to see
<diplo> Well thanks!
<diplo> I think we have given up on sun now
<diplo> I'd really like my garden to dry out.
<popey> yay, my game.co.uk order has been shipped
<popey> heard they've been de-listed from the stock exchange â¨
<DJones> popey: Yep, they have
<gord> oooh a game?
<DJones> A lot of suppliers are refusing to let them have any goods, the expectation was that they'd shut down very soon unless a buyer/new finance can be found for them (I think Comet were mentioned as a possible buyer)
<gord> left my machine running a bitcoin miner all night to see how much it would generate, curiosity really, 0.02bitcoins. not gonna pay the electricity bill with that ;)
<popey> gord: bought some second hand xbox 360 games
<popey> Gears of War 2, FALLOUT NEW VEGAS , Colin McRae: DiRT 2, Bioshock. Â£17.92
<popey> bargain âº
<czajkowski> hmmmm
<czajkowski> I seem to have hit some key comnbination
<czajkowski> where my terminal is now MAXED
<gord> fallout new vegas is fun :) always wear a cowboy hat
<czajkowski> and I cant see buttons or side bar
<AlanBell> F11
<czajkowski> *help*
<czajkowski> win
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> :D
<gord> the cowboy hat stops a game breaking bug
<czajkowski> need breakfast
<popey> gord: haha!
<popey> czajkowski: or right click -> leave full screen
<gordonjcp> 09:49 < gord> the cowboy hat stops a game breaking bug
<gordonjcp> ^^^^ this is the first time anyone has ever said that
<BigRedS> that soudns like the sort of game I want to be playing
<gord> you wouldn't believe what i went through figuring that out ;) but it turns out its well known
<bigcalm> mrevell: joining us tonight?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Sorry, no.
<bigcalm> How about tomorrow?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Looking unlikely. Ill family combined with tight work deadlines.
<bigcalm> Sucky
<bigcalm> gord: coming tomorrow?
<gord> bigcalm, not this time, beta two tomorrow
<bigcalm> So, just me Alex and davmor2
<bigcalm> If davmor2 isn't rushed off his feet as well
<bigcalm> I'm not going to get any work done, am I?
<bigcalm> Oh nuts. My Gran is in hospital. Good thing we're visiting my parents this weekend
<gord> bigcalm, when do you ever get any work done at these things? ;)
<bigcalm> gord: I get bits done. Tiny tiny bits
<gord> is that in between bacon sarnies and dave harassments? ;)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> The bacon is good
<czajkowski> whoo fresh out of the oven crossiant:D
<gord> we should really get the other remote workers in here setting up their own work days, then put webcams in all of them hooked up to google hangouts
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> And get no work done?
<gord> and play national hide and seek obviously
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Double rotter chopper flew overhead. Could feel my innards go all wibbly
 * BigRedS loves the Chinook
<bigcalm> That's some good bass man
<shauno> I give it 10 minutes before it ends up on a dubstep album :/
<bigcalm> Yay dubstep
<bigcalm> Goodness. Soundcloud making flash crashtastic today
 * bigcalm sticks to last.fm and Orbital radio
<gord> i tried that supposedly fixed spotify, its all lies
<bigcalm> Maybe it would help if you were to pay for their service?
<gord> i really don't think it would
<DJones> New Doctor Who assistant has been named (and its not K9) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17456505
<dwatkins> woohoo, thanks DJones
<TheOpenSourcerer> nom nom Amy Pond...
<DJones> According to IMDb 168 episodes of Emmerdale, waterloo road, Captain America, Titanic amongst her previous roles
<oimon> amy pond was one of the most attractive women on tv, they won't get better
<TheOpenSourcerer> Agreed oimon
 * TheOpenSourcerer stops looking at Google Images for Amy Pond...
<czajkowski> whoo no more pond and rory!
<czajkowski> thank feck!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oi Oi czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great Rugby at the Weekend? My predictions were spot on thought.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: aye you were right
<czajkowski> we were woefully bad
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: however A) we didnt end up witht he wooden spoon B) we played fairly and didnt bite other players :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Allegedly"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am off to Wembley week after next for Saracens v 'Quins
<czajkowski> sweet
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17440125
<czajkowski> up to a 4 year ban goes by to your career!
<DJones> czajkowski: If he gets the 4 year ban, maybe he'll take up boxing with Mike Tyson as his trainer
<czajkowski> DJones: this is  alesson, eat before you go play a game :)
<czajkowski> dont like that nasty stuff in rugby really lowers the game
<DJones> Definately not
<TheOpenSourcerer> I agree czajkowski. Looked like Frew stuck his hand in Dylan's gob though ;-)
<czajkowski> Ferris hah
<czajkowski> still no need to bite
<czajkowski> doesnt set an example to young players
<czajkowski> especially at international level
<czajkowski> anyways we played shite and ye deserved to win
<czajkowski> no doubt there
<AlanBell> can't taste good either
<TheOpenSourcerer> Eww, muddy Paddy :-(
<s-fox> Hello.
<davmor2> morning Funksters
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a hug
<bigcalm> davmor2: morning
<czajkowski> davmor2: elo elo
<s-fox> o/ davmor2 bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hullo
 * bigcalm noms some nommy poptarts
<davmor2> hello s-fox bigcalm
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's things down sowff
<s-fox> How are you ?
<czajkowski> davmor2: good thanks busy but loving it
<davmor2> czajkowski: you managing to zero you're inbox?
<czajkowski> yes
<bigcalm> ctrl+a del
<davmor2> mrevell: czajkowski hasn't got enough work she is zeroing her inbox :D
<bigcalm> Haha
<czajkowski> davmor2: you little fecker!
<bigcalm> davmor2: are you joining us tomorrow?
<davmor2> bigcalm: tomorrow yes not sure about tonight 3 release to test :(
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> Thought it would be tight for you tonight
<bigcalm> Not to worry, Adam Sweet will provide the constant chatter ;)
<davmor2> hahaha and don't forget to stay till the very end so you are really tired on thursday :D
<popey> you should do a sponsored silence of davmor2 for charity
<davmor2> popey: I don't like any charities enough to do that :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's the danger. But as I'm not giving any lifts this week, will try to leave earlier
<davmor2> bigcalm: you won't you'll stay till at least half leave :D
<bigcalm> I'm going to have food at least!
<bigcalm> Will try and have something other than steak today
<bigcalm> Got my red V5C today. I preferred the look of the blue one
<BigRedS> yeah, the red ones feel less officious
<DJones> popey: Game have just confirmed they're going into administration, got your games just in time
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yay made you snap man if I'd of known that's all it took :D
<oimon> how can i use sed on a csv file to add a column when there is a match on a string?
<oimon> the column is at the end of the line
<AlanBell> christel: friday pub lunch?
<christel> yessir!
<christel> i am all for that
 * TheOpenSourcerer too.
<christel> \o/
<davmor2> Man I need to start my scrolling catch up from where I left off and not skip lines,  all I saw then was christel 's yessir! i am all for that and then TheOpenSourcerer saying too,  I missed AlanBell 's line though :D now it all makes sense
<AlanBell> pub \o/
<AlanBell> now, which one?
<directhex> lamb & flag!
<AlanBell> Shepherd and Flock?
<davmor2> AlanBell: for now I'd go with one that sells food :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lord Nelson
<christel> davmor2: haha
<christel> ooh i have never been in the shepherd & flock
<AlanBell> whut??
<christel> well.. since it's just like down the road from me i always think i should nip in
<christel> but then i think that i'd get drunk and then become roadkill when attempting to make my way back home!
<christel> :D
<christel> i do like the nelson mind
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are tunnels
<christel> oooh
<AlanBell> :) there is a tunnel
<christel> i had no idea!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't been to the Nelson for ages...
<AlanBell> you don't actually want to cross the road there! That would be a *bad* plan.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A recent report said good things about it.
<AlanBell> the Nelson went all modern and minimalist
<christel> AlanBell: see! i have always wondered how people (on foot) came/went to/from the shepherd and flock without well, dying :x
<christel> i had no idea there were tunnels!
<christel> i havent been to the nelson for a while
<christel> is it long since they did it up?
<AlanBell> hmm, the nelson website looks like it has been put back the way it was, I am sure they painted the whole thing white including the beams
<AlanBell> http://nelsonarms.co.uk/pub_evening_menu.htm looks dark and cosy again
<arsen> hm
<arsen> long train ride for lunch :<
 * TheOpenSourcerer looks at this page instead: http://nelsonarms.co.uk/ales.htm
<arsen> priorities ^^
<davmor2> christel: when you say you do like the nelson....Half or Full?
<christel> oh! you are looking for premises -- you should take over the plough and then you could like do your geekery upstairs and turn the downstairs into a real ale place!
 * christel nods
<christel> and then i can spend all day there drinking beer and doing my work
<popey> do they have wifi?
<christel> arsen: but so worth it for the exquisite company!
<popey> âº
<christel> popey: the nelson? or the plough? i'm not sure about the nelson, the plough does (but the food is a bit rubbish)
<christel> i still think we should copy the wolverhamptoners and do a monthly (or forthnightly) "working in the same place" day/thing!
<AlanBell> christel: we are looking at a couple of office places on Friday morning
<christel> ooh exciting! in town or elsewhere?
<AlanBell> in town
<christel> cool
<AlanBell> just some serviced offices initially
<christel> *nod*
<popey> that would be fab
<popey> and cheaper than the 30 quid a day or so I pay to go to london
<christel> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Sure it will be cheaper ;-)
<christel> you should get a Big office so that there's room for me and my laptop now and again when i develop cabin fever!
 * christel nods
<christel> in return i'll pretend to be your receptionist and answer the phone and make tea!
 * TheOpenSourcerer doesn't drink tea. *EVAH*
<christel> well i'll er, serve beer!
<TheOpenSourcerer> coffee works.
<christel> coffee! i can do coffee
<christel> the postman just came to deliver a parcel and said he had "loads more parcels for you at work but i couldn't bring them on my bike so i'll come back out with the van this afternoon" i bet he wouldn't have remembered that if my name was john smith!
<christel> :x
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dell & Ubuntu Cloud news: http://blog.canonical.com/
<Dave2> beer > coffee
<christel> Dave2: i dunno, i tend to prefer coffee before noon
<BigRedS> yeah, beer doesn't work so well with breakfast
<TheOpenSourcerer> Guiness is OK though.
<Dave2> christel: but it's afternoon!
 * Dave2 just doesn't really like coffee ever.
<awilkins> re: offices ; Manchester has desks on the second floor of Madlab
<christel> awilkins: bit of a commute from farnham :(
<awilkins> A shame :)
<awilkins> I may have a big gingerbread latte this PM
<awilkins> Tea has not kindled the neuronic fire this morning
<christel> i've never managed to learn to like tea :(
<awilkins> I like it without milk or sugar
<awilkins> Tea with sugar is vile
<awilkins> Learned to like it with no milk when I was a student and had no milk
<awilkins> It tastes leafier with no milk
<AlanBell> "World Hosting Day" what will they think of next!
<Dave2> Tea with sugar is disgusting. I prefer tea with milk, but will drink tea without milk.
<TheOpenSourcerer> video games get a tax break
<awilkins> Well, that's a welcome thing
<awilkins> A shame it will be abused by the likes of EA
<awilkins> But hooray for bedroom programmers, etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love it. Osbourne "Will keep Wallace and Grommett right where they belong!" Delivered whilst looking at Balls & Milliband.
<AlanBell> awilkins: EA and the like paid for all the lobbying to get the tax break I guess
<awilkins> "High end TV production firms" ??
<awilkins> Do we actually HAVE any high end TV production firms?
<AlanBell> is that code for pr0n?
<daubers> More interested in the digital content creators getting tax breaks. Need to re-optimise some storage for them......
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, video gamer tax? hooray
<awilkins> Ah, content, not hardware
<directhex> AlanBell, the uk game development industry had been decimated by canada's beneficial tax rates
<gord> no video game tax means games will be cheeper right?
<gord> right?
<BigRedS> gord: sure
<awilkins> "Public sector pay more responsive to local pay rates"
<awilkins> Boooo
<daubers> gord: Nah, means more video games devs in the UK (they hope)
<directhex> daubers, i hope so. in the 90s the uk ruled the world with its home grown development talent
<awilkins> I reckon public sector workers are just doing higher skilled jobs (on average) hence their higher (on average) wages
<daubers> directhex: yeah, they'll have to do a bit more than tax breaks though. But if educatoin reforms in IT happen, then it might happen
<directhex> daubers, indeed. the bbc micro was a big part of it - 80's kids became 90's devs
<daubers> directhex: Indeed!
<awilkins> Yeah, the environment is very important - today the systems are all too "out of the box" to encourage experimentation
<daubers> directhex: Maybe we need some form of hackspace like organisation for computing
<awilkins> In the 8 bit era, necessity was the mother of invention - you had to learn a lot about the workings of the machine to use it at all
<awilkins> With the 16-bit era and beyond, you could have an experience consisting entirely of prepackaged software if you chose
<awilkins> Boo, you didn't remove VAT for eBooks
<awilkins> Not that that would reduce prices much, I'm sure
<daubers> awilkins: The EU thing will probably do more for that
<awilkins> Oh, what a surprise, people up in arms over the Sunday trading exemptions
<awilkins> Focus on the real problem, people - the Olympics are a boondoggle that exist solely to line the pockets of transnational corporations....
<AlanBell> awilkins: they are, but we can't cancel them now
<daubers> awilkins: I don't work for a transnat... but it's certainly giving us quite a fair amount of new income
<awilkins> Clegg and Cameron are putting on such a lousy show of being interested
<awilkins> No changes to boozetax
<awilkins> Hooray, fagtax up
<AlanBell> up go the fags, 37p. Good job.
<awilkins> Slot machine duty! Hooray
<AlanBell> ooh, offshore gambling tax, interesting
<awilkins> Will be interesting to see how they enforce it
<AlanBell> yeah, that is going to be interesting, if we start taxing American casinos
<christel> yes! tax those indians running casinos in the states!
<christel> (indian as in native american thar)
<awilkins> You could probably implement it by making people transferring money to online gamblers extract the tax at point of payment
<awilkins> Credit card companies, PayPal, etc
<awilkins> Well, he's certainly saying the right things
<awilkins> I almost like him
<christel> i dont think i have realised it before but george osbourne looks like he is 12
<awilkins> I bet people are flocking to the shops to buy fags as we speak
<christel> (it's quite cute)
<awilkins> A smart shopkeeper is probably marking them up by 15p right now
<arsen> cant help but like the budget :x
<AlanBell> where are they getting the money though?
<arsen> not sure, we'll see when it's all analysed i guess.
<awilkins> RIch people, allegedly
<arsen> gogogo someone write a budget calculator :D
<awilkins> Whenever I think about these things I want to write a cellular automaton thing that simulates the economy
<popey> s/economy/universe/
<AlanBell> what did he do on fuel?
<awilkins> Nothing
<gord> pretty sure this is what they do the budget calculations on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsjzcC4Jdw&feature=player_detailpage#t=37s
 * popey gives gord another video bug
<popey> bug 961161
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 961161 in unity "HUD remembers icon of last used app" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961161
<awilkins> "Nod if you're going to benefit from the income tax cut! Come on!"
<awilkins> Hahahahaha
<arsen> its kinda stupid really
<arsen> this debate should of ended when osborne sat down, we could of had hundreds of MP hours to do something productive now.
<arsen> osborne could of said anything and the labour response speech would of been exactly the same.
<AlanBell> not entirely sure that they would do much productive if they were allowed out early
<arsen> go relay some roads or something?
<arsen> maybe give teachers a day off, or help out in a hospital.
<arsen> as long as it's nothing where they have any power.
<czajkowski> popey: oh ou logged the bug that has been annoying me for the last few weeks
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/961161
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 961161 in unity "HUD remembers icon of last used app" [Undecided,New]
<popey> heh
<popey> just done another for gord
<popey> bug 961230
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 961230 in unity "HUD too many triangles with new transition effect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961230
<nothingspecial> hi greymech
<nothingspecial> lol
<nothingspecial> I'll try hi greymech again
<greymech> Hi, sorry I was switching back to channel U+1 to see if there was any activity there. How are things?
<nothingspecial> Fine thanks greymech, and with you?
<davmor2> hey gord you coming tomorrow or is life too hectic for you right now?
<greymech> I am fine. I am trying to organise myself to share in QA testing for 12.10. We have yet to establish a comunication pattern. Early days I think.
<gord> davmor2, beta2 tomorrow :) so no not this time
<nothingspecial> Thinks seem to be coming along though greymech :)
<greymech> O, yes, this time. I have been using 12.04 daily since November. I have ran some of the Checkbox tests.  But I am thinking of being more involved next time.
<popey> czajkowski: you gonna confirm that bug then? âº
<nothingspecial> They can always use testers greymech, it's nice to see more and more people getting involved. The +1 forum and it's members have been doing sterling work
<czajkowski> popey: done
<czajkowski> gord: darling dearest
<gord> lemme alone
<czajkowski> pretty please
<czajkowski> I shall bring you oddles of bickies and tea at uds
<greymech> I have been accepted on the U+1 testing team.  And the U+1 wiki is starting to look great and useful. The more that I have learnt about QA more more I notice how much is being done by so few people.
<popey> greymech: there's a U+1 testing team? âº
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu and the state of free consumer software - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4547
<gord> czajkowski, i have about a million things to fix already ;) i think you'll have more success letting the bug go through the normal methods
<bigcalm> When somebody sends you an email which should have an attachment but doesn't, how long do you wait before replying to say that they forgot to add an attachment?
<greymech> Oh, yes. [I am starting to sound like that nodding dog in the insurance advert - Uk only] Here is the address to our wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/U+1
<nothingspecial> congratulations on making the team greymech
<greymech> We are available for hire. We do anything for a few bikkies : )
<czajkowski> popey: the tagline Linux for human beings has been gone a long time now hasn't it or am I imaging it ?
<directhex> also gone for a long time: naked wallpaper
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> Was the wallpaper that bad?
<bigcalm> It didn't even hint at anything
<directhex> no, that's still there
<directhex>        boo | 0.9.5~git20110729.r1.202a430-1 | precise/universe | source, all
<popey> czajkowski: correct
<directhex> see, we still ship boo.
 * bigcalm tickles directhex
<bigcalm> !info boo
<lubotu3> boo (source: boo): python-like language and compiler for the CLI. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.5~git20110729.r1.202a430-1 (oneiric), package size 117 kB, installed size 976 kB
<czajkowski> popey: and the new tagline is ?
<directhex> czajkowski, linux for mark shuttleworth
 * directhex flees
<bigcalm> Hehe
<czajkowski> popey: just wondering as still seeing a lot of people quote it as their signature and also as the tagline for Ubuntu
<popey> people have long memories
<popey> and the internet never forgets
<popey> we dont have one anymore
<popey> greymech: do the U+1 team work with the ubuntu testing team?
<czajkowski> directhex: back in yer box smartie pants
<awilkins> Game are going into administration, what a surprise
<greymech> I think that some of those in Ubuntu+1 section, who have worked hard testing over the years, felt a little left out of Ubuntu QA as they did not exist except for the bugs they reported. The setting up of this team is meant to correct that, IMO. It also has the purpose of showing ordinary users how they too can get involved (safely and easily) in testing according to their skill level and desire. I would like to see the U+1 team become like a doorway fo
<greymech> r the Ubuntu QA team to get access to the wider community.
<popey> greymech: what kind of testing are you guys proposing people do out of interest?
<greymech> popey: the U+1 team is official but it started just a couple of weeks ago. This is why, as a team we are aiming for 12.10. We are aiming to get information as to what each team member wants and is able to test. The idea is that then invites can be sent out as a testing need arises.
<BigRedS> Does being part of some sort of testing team increase the likelihood of bugs getting attention?
<popey> greymech: how did it start?
<popey> I mean, did someone just go "lets make a team" and create a wiki page?
 * popey notes he does some internal testing on ubuntu at canonical so has an interest in this team
<greymech> popey: I posted a link on Ubuntu+1 to Marks blog where he goes on about QA and does not not mention Ubuntu+1. He mentions everyone else it seems. So, a comment is posted to Mark to the effect of saying: Hey, what about us. Then guitara starts posting in Ubuntu+1 invites for various testing needs and then next thing I see is effenburger0x0 and cariboo907 posting about the U+1 Testing team and wiki.
<popey> greymech: when you say "does not mention Ubuntu+1." does that mean the irc channel #Ubuntu+1 ?
<nothingspecial> popey, ubuntu forums +1 section
<nothingspecial> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=412
<popey> ah okay, forums.
<nothingspecial> a good deal of user testing goes on/is discussed/ worked on there popey
<popey> nothingspecial: what kind of testing?
<nothingspecial> all sorts, I believe the team is an attempt to co-ordinate it
<nothingspecial> ballons will post testing requests there for example
<greymech> popey: while we are on this subject some of us have noticed that the installation slideshow refers to askubuntu but not ubuntu forums. We get a bit tribal over this or call it loyalty.
<nothingspecial> greymech, this has been discussed a lot already btw
<nothingspecial> not here though I suppose
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> greymech: yep, and now someone has posted a "fix" which removes askubuntu and puts ubuntuforums link in â¹
<greymech> nothingspecial: I expect so. Things do get talked about. See, what I mean about tribal?
<nothingspecial> Well we are trying to move forward greymech :)
<nothingspecial> and we are :D
<nothingspecial> The U+1 team is part of it
<greymech> They are two different sites with two different approaches. Both are beneficial.
<s-fox> popey, As you know I have sent the developer a revised slide that lists ask ubuntu, launchpad answers and the forums as support avenues. The slide also cycles through the logos for the sites
<popey> s-fox: is that in now?
<s-fox> I sent the code last week, got a quick email back thanking me for sending it on. I have heard nothing back since I sent the code over, I actually sent an email on Monday asking for a status update.
<s-fox> ^ popey
<popey> cool, be good to get that sorted.
<s-fox> I would just upload the revision myself but I am not sure how to get it into the main trunk
<popey> create a branch, do a merge proposal
<popey> he just has to approve it
<s-fox> Ohh, I'll see if I can do that later tonight after my run.
<s-fox> Thanks popey
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon!
<brobostigon> hi BigRedS
<BigRedS> Morning! How's it going?
<brobostigon> BigRedS:  alittle tired, a long few days. tiring, and you?
<BigRedS> brobostigon: heh, rather similar!
<brobostigon> BigRedS: ohwell. :(
<BigRedS> On the plus side, it's hometime! :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> EeePC 1000 - 32 or 64 bit?
<bigcalm> 32 :(
<MartijnVdS> yeah it's from long ago
<bigcalm> Going to try installing 12.04 beta1 at tonight's lug meeting in the pub
<popey> haha
 * bigcalm grabs the ISO
<MartijnVdS> beta1 or today's daily?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Erm
<popey> do you have network access there?
<bigcalm> Daily appears to be the URL I'm on
<bigcalm> popey: yet
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<popey> do your updates
<popey> and if you're interested ... sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/ppa
<popey> to get latest crack :D
<popey> and test it!
<Dave2> I have a fully licensed version of Unity, I don't need to crack it
<bigcalm> Should I get beta1 or today's daily?
<AlanBell> daily
<CraigSnr> daily
<bigcalm> Good, as that's just finished downloading
<AlanBell> and install with orca running and your eyes closed :)
<bigcalm> What's the prog to make a bootable SD card?
<AlanBell> ctrl + s when you hear the drums
<AlanBell> startup disk creator
<bigcalm> This is on my eeepc1000, I just want to see if it works :)
<bigcalm> Ta
 * bigcalm finds some 'interesting' files on the SD card and wonders how they got there
<gord> SD card fairy
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "family videos" from the bedroom?
<bigcalm> ms office 2010 and key
<bigcalm> Both legitimate copies from the MSPN, just forgot about them
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm guessing here bit torrent :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: damn you answering before I got chance to :P
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> i borrowed a usb stick from someones desk once and found there was a torrented film on it, quite old, clearly been there a while
<popey> so i renamed it goat_porn.avi
<Dave2> Oh, it was YOU who did that
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> and put it back in their drawer
<popey> someone else borrowed it weeks later.. "hey, what's this!"
<popey> "click it!"
<popey> "No way"
<popey> etc
<bigcalm> Taking its time with 'Creating a persistence file...'
<bigcalm> It's been at 100% for several mins with the progress bar bouncing back and forth
<popey> i wouldnt bother
<popey> (creating a persistence file) that is
<bigcalm> Oh, it was trying to install it on this machine
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> Lets start again
 * czajkowski now has her bookmarks in some sort of decent order 
<czajkowski> finally!
<czajkowski> it's the small things in life that really make me happy!
<awilkins> It's getting anything done at all. Dopamine rewards.
<awilkins> It's how WoW make their money...
 * awilkins is responding to somehting from a quarter hour ago....
<OmNomDePlume> awilkins, more likely you're talking in the future.
<awilkins> 5 minutes for a "Precise" ISO, I like 30Mbit/s
<awilkins> New Dr Who companion .... not very interesting. Cute. But not very interesting.
<bigcalm> TV needs more red-heads!
<awilkins> Redhead Squad! Comprised of Alicia Witt, Christina Hendricks, Karen Gillan and Lauren Ambrose. They report to their boss, Julianne Moore.
<awilkins> They battle the likes of Lindsay Lohan, Damian Lewis, and Tilda Swinton
<awilkins> Gah, annoying thing about flash player in Linux ; it un-fullscreens when focus shifts to another window
<awilkins> Doesn't do this in Windows
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: link? :)
<dwatkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17456505 this, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ah, yes
<dwatkins> I shall reserve judgement until seeing her in an episode of Doctor Who
<davmor2> bigcalm: and you're about to lose one muhahahahahaha
<christel> AlanBell: did we settle for a pub yet? :)
<AlanBell> not entirely
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer wanted to go to the Nelson
<AlanBell> I kind of like the idea of sitting out in the sun at the Shepherd and Flock, but if it isn't sunny then the Nelson is nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not that fussed. But Nelson is somewhere haven't been in years. Have been to the S&F before but hey ho.
<akgraner> hi all  - on the advice of AlanBell (yep I'm throwing you under the bus :-P) who suggested I as you all - where in the UK can someone physically go to or purchase online a laptop which comes pre-loaded with Ubuntu?
<popey> hahahahahahahahahaah
<popey> mind if I ask why?
<popey> personally I'd buy a thinkpad and wipe it
<akgraner> b/c I have someone over there who is trying to buy a computer with Ubuntu on it
<akgraner> and my advice was the same as your popey
<akgraner> which is exactly what did
<akgraner> not sure why they think they need to purchase it with Ubuntu on it
<apacheuk> popey, finally got my hands on one today, think I'm gonna purchase one... but will have to wait till I've moved house
<popey> i expect that in the very near future this problem will be solved
<popey> until then, either buy a blank machine or buy a machine other people have
<popey> hence thinkpad âº
<akgraner> I <3 my thinkpad - well minus the race condition I hit for time to time with overheating - :-)
<apacheuk> even the HP guy at work said it was a nice machine
<akgraner> but I had the same thing happen with my Dell and my HP - so I think it's something I am doing, but can't figure out what yet
<Azelphur> akgraner: there are a lot of laptops preloaded with Ubuntu on ebay
<akgraner> Azelphur, yep but this person wants to be able to see it before they buy it :-/
<Azelphur> ah, so physical store?
<akgraner> I don't know anyone who who doesn't buy the hardware they want, blow away what may or may not be there and just install what they want
<popey> akgraner: I'll happily sell them one âº
<Azelphur> yea, that's what I do
<akgraner> isn't that half the beauty of using Linux :-)
<zleap> hello
<davmor2> akgraner: are you using it?  if so that'll be the issue,  try switching it off and using it as a door stop I bet it doesn't over heat then ;)
 * popey has an idea
<Azelphur> akgraner: if they just want to see what Ubuntu is like perhaps get them to install virtualbox
<Azelphur> and try it out
<Azelphur> akgraner: https://www.system76.com/ sell preloaded Ubuntu laptops too
<akgraner> yep - but they want someone there in the UK
 * akgraner wants to just bang her head against the wall :-)  this may cause her to drink heavily tonight
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> akgraner: just tell her straight, her conditions are too difficult there's nothing that meets the requirements, she'll need to drop at least one condition.
<davmor2> akgraner: most of the people that started selling laptops in the uk with Ubuntu on stopped due to lack of interest
<Azelphur> akgraner: also btw, if you buy a laptop with Windows on it, you can sometimes get a refund for Windows if you have no intention of using it
<akgraner> it's not a her :-)
<Azelphur> oh ok then, just tell "it" :P
 * Azelphur runs
<akgraner> hehe
<akgraner> no worries
<akgraner> it's all good
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> akgraner: but yea, best thing to do really is fire up a Ubuntu VM have him check it out and then buy a laptop and put Ubuntu on it
<Azelphur> or buy a preloaded one if you really have to
<akgraner> I <3 the uk loco team - makes me consider moving there
<Azelphur> :D
<zleap> according  to the ubuntu print cups thingy my printer ink is empty, according to the printer there is ink free  i can print from windows and from the printer
<zleap> any ideas?
<zleap> hi
<mattt> evening
<jacobw> evening
<popey> yo
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-22
<mattt> *yawn*
<MartijnVdS> Yay. No train service from/to Amsterdam.
<MartijnVdS> "We have a problem communicating with the signals and switches"
<mattt> WFH!
<MartijnVdS> "Expected to be fixed by 9:00"
<MartijnVdS> mattt: I'm considering that.. or going by car and paying towering parking fees
<mattt> how long's the drive ?
<MartijnVdS> 30 minutes (45 with traffic)
<MartijnVdS> I can also just go to work after 9
<MartijnVdS> </care> :)
<shauno> isn't this what you've been practicing for?  just run!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> Yay. estimate has been changed from 9:00 to "early afternoon"
<MartijnVdS> Tempted to take a bike.
<MartijnVdS> Yes. I'll do that.
<mattt> run dammit run
<diplo> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning all
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm_lappy> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Morning bigcalm_lappy
<bigcalm_lappy> Hi DJones
<davmor2> morning all
<mrevell> davmor2, bigcalm_lappy: Just to confirm, I won't make it today :(
<bigcalm_lappy> mrevell: a shame, I hope your family gets well soon
<mrevell> thanks chapo
<bigcalm_lappy> And on that note, time for a bacon sandwich!
<davmor2> mrevell: shutup typing on here and go look after your kin ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
<bigcalm_lappy> Oh my, stary-eyed surprise
<gord> i like Jorge's google+ posts it assures me that i'm not the only nerd at my company ;)
 * bigcalm_lappy wonders if davmor2 is being quieter than usual because one of his cow-orkers is here
<gord> have you guys set up a shrine to me in my abstinence?
<gord> absence
<gord> spellcheck = bad
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> gord: why aren't you there?
<czajkowski> gord: oi there are lots of nerds in your company mister!
<gord> release to kick out the door today :)
<czajkowski> take that back !
<gord> well, there are nerds, then there are those of us that have seen every episode of star trek: tng, stargate: all of them and buffy, among many others
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: you'll always be a rugby nerd in my heart
<bigcalm_lappy> gord: the bacon sandwiches are missing you
<czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Damn, should have brought some floss with me
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm_lappy> Morning
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: elo ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: should think so too :P
<davmor2> gord: make the blue message windows stop please...........
<gord> davmor2, update? should be a new notify-osd by now
<davmor2> gord: I'm on current
<bigcalm_lappy> I'm on my last legs
<gord> davmor2, then i guess wait for an update :)
<davmor2> gord: you're an evil evil man I like it
<AlanBell> davmor2: they still blue for you? did they ever go normal?
<davmor2> AlanBell: nope never went normal
<AlanBell> ah, mine did
<davmor2> I use the snowdon image on the desktop though
<AlanBell> was blue again a couple of days ago, then went back to normal
<AlanBell> I use the default bruise
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm_lappy
<brobostigon> morning gord , davmor2 and AlanBell
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> i just found the ubuntu one, home dir backup in precise, it is a good idea.
<bigcalm_lappy> All I ever hear about Ubuntu1 is people losing stuff. Kinda puts me off using it
<brobostigon> i also use dropbox.
<BigRedS> bigcalm_lappy: well, nobody's going to talk about how U1 just didn't delete all their files
<gord> bigcalm_lappy, its worth noting that all my ranting about u1 has always been because i'm on unstable releases :)
<ali1234> my notifications are the right colour now but the launcher is still blue
<DJones> BigRedS: I'm struggling to find somewhere with a xoom in stock, I may have to go with a galaxy tab
<DJones> bigcalm_lappy: That should have been fo
<DJones> sorry bigcalm_lappy
<DJones> Complete and utter tab complete fail there
<brobostigon> wow, an update to chromium.
 * brobostigon has been practising his sarcasm.
<balor> czajkowski, Are we giving @sil a holiday?
<czajkowski> balor: no playing with blueptrints and needed one that wasnt going to cause too much trouble if I played with it
<czajkowski> balor: conference limerick october. you're warned :)
<balor> czajkowski, I shall order my stab-vest
<balor> czajkowski, In Leinster colours
<czajkowski> balor: you my dear can go......
<balor> czajkowski, Is this conf to do with the city moving to OSS?
<czajkowski> balor: no skynet - skyCon 20th Birthday :D
<balor> czajkowski, fun
<bigcalm_lappy> DJones: currys no longer stocking them?
<bigcalm_lappy> Could be why they were cheapish, selling off end of line stock
<DJones> bigcalm_lappy: They don't seem to have any stock, same with Argos, tesco, pcworld (all selling at the same price)
<DJones> Or I guess I could look at the xoom 2
<bigcalm_lappy> I wonder if the Xoom2 will get ICS in the UK any sooner than the Xoom
<DJones> From what I read yesterday, no it won't, original xoom gets it first
<dwatkins> I thought the Xoom already had ICS, I just had a customer report a problem with it at least.
<DJones> Not yet, its due between March & May in the uk, but if you've got US firmware, they've been updated
<dwatkins> aha thanks DJones :)
<DJones> Hmmh, why does carphonewarehouse website tell me that the "ipad battery life" in the xoom 2 is 10 hours
<ali1234> because it actually has an ipad inside it
<ali1234> just like how vhs machines have dvd players inside
<DJones> ali1234: I thought it was the iPad that had a Samsung Galaxy Tab inside/outside it (or is the other way round)
<gord> you are all wrong, the ipad has an iphone inside it and the rest is just a magnifying lens
<DJones> Hmmh, xoom 2 seems to be somewhat more capeable than the galaxy tab
<DJones> On the other hand, there's always the transformer prime
<popey> hah, ipad = iphone with frenzel lens
 * dwatkins is reminded of the film Brazil
<popey> i have a friend who had one of those lenses in front of his pc screen about 10 years ago
<dwatkins> I gather the head-up displays they are developing to fit into contact lenses will use fresnel lenses to focus the on-eye display
<dwatkins> http://www.tomsguide.com/us/1-Pixel-Contact-Lens-HUD-implant,news-13298.html for the curious and non-squeamish
<ali1234> 1 pixel
<ali1234> so basically it's like shining a torch into your eyes?
<DJones> Argh. Decisions, decisions
<BigRedS> ali1234: morse code messages
<BigRedS> like nokia talked about doing for SMSs
<dwatkins> ali1234: it might send you Morse-code messages
<daubers> Urgh, I've had to make time to write a document about taking time to consider time
<BigRedS> haha
<daubers> Somedays I just don't have the time for this
<BigRedS> df -h
<BigRedS> oops
<bigcalm_lappy> Gigs and gigs of goat porn
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm_lappy> Just speculating
<bigcalm_lappy> And forgetting that I'm not in another channel that is all about goat porn
<BigRedS> find . -name goat\*
<BigRedS> oh. dammit. rumbled
<daubers> Woot! Quite nice when you see a device you dreamed up in an afternoon in a trade magazine
<kirrus> what device? :)
<BigRedS> Is that the IPv6 keypad?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: wouldn't that just be a hex keypad?
<daubers> kirrus: LTO server thingy
<kirrus> Light Transmitting Organ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.ipv6buddy.com/
<daubers> kirrus: Tape drive :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, that one
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Showing it to our network guys now :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it's actually a genuine produict
<BigRedS> despite the site looking an awful lot like a scap
<BigRedS> scam
 * BigRedS can't type today
 * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
 * bigcalm_lappy falls asleep
 * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
<bigcalm_lappy> Hey, I'm trying to sleep here
 * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
 * bigcalm_lappy glares
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy uses GLARE. It's super-effective!
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: it's a cow-orkers day not a fall asleep day
<bigcalm_lappy> Good burger this
<gord> maybe its co-naptime
<bigcalm_lappy> Despite it looking like it, this isn't pre-school
<dwatkins> Burger Time is apparently a very entertaining arcade game.
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BurgerTime
<gord> i need to nap as an adult *way* more than i ever needed to as a child
<dwatkins> I've had two naps in the past six months.
<bigcalm_lappy> dwatkins: I think you should get some more sleep
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: burger time, isn't that a few hours after beer o'clock?
<brobostigon> beertime is anytime, burger time is fixed. :(
<dwatkins> bigcalm_lappy: you're right, 7 hours isn't enough
<MartijnVdS> Sat, Sun are nap days. 14:00 -> Zzz :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Visiting my parents this weekend. It'll be another 2 solid days of WordPress support
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: .. yay
<bigcalm_lappy> :)
<dwatkins> could be worse, bigcalm_lappy - could be MS Word support ;)
<dwatkins> I tend to help my dad out with his XP installation and backup issues when I'm there
<bigcalm_lappy> I pay Bytemark 18 quid a month for a virtual machine for my own use. How much should I charge a club for hosting their website?
<MartijnVdS> Whatever they're able to pay ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> gord: you'll be happy to know that I've got hic-ups again today
<bigcalm_lappy> MartijnVdS: I'm trying to be sensible about this
<bigcalm_lappy> Thinking a yearly cost of Â£not_much
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: what do "web-only" hosters ask? Would Â£10/month be too much?
<MartijnVdS> Â£100/y
<MartijnVdS> ?
<bigcalm_lappy> I think they are currently paying Â£80 / year for their hosting
<MartijnVdS> 75 then?
<diplo> With "personalised" support :)
<diplo> IE they can poke you when it doesn't work
<bigcalm_lappy> That's the thing, I'm just one man with a VM
<bigcalm_lappy> I'm doing this for my dad who is in the club
<diplo> I host three sites all for free :)
<diplo> <-- sucker
<bigcalm_lappy> I host sites for my family for free. But I have no connection with this new thing
<bigcalm_lappy> So don't want to be taken for a ride
<diplo> Ask for Â£30 or something then
<diplo> I take it that it's very low bandy/disc usage
<bigcalm_lappy> A month? Good idea
<bigcalm_lappy> I have no idea what the bandwidth usage will be on this site yet
<diplo> I'd ask your dad if he knows the people ?
<diplo> Is there a reason for you hosting it over last people ?
<bigcalm_lappy> Which reminds me, need to set up Google Analytics
<bigcalm_lappy> The current person is about 79 and inter-club politics are going silly. Hence my dad setting up the new site
<MartijnVdS> \o/ politics
<bigcalm_lappy> I need sleep
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: so get some!
<bigcalm_lappy> I would, but davmor2 threatens to throw things at me
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: so lock him in a drawer
<bigcalm_lappy> COFFEE!
<bigcalm_lappy> Oh, maybe a mocha this time
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: 2 flaws to your plan,  out of the to of us I'm more likely to hurt him, and I'm 6ft2in that's a big draw
<czajkowski> most irritating bug known to man - it just randomly crashes when alt tabbing.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/926379
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 926379 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in intel_miptree_release()" [Critical,Triaged]
<gord> czajkowski, what we call, a driver bug =\
<czajkowski> driver eh
<czajkowski> drives a user insane
<czajkowski> :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: what about the white squared with Chrome notification popups?
<gord> MartijnVdS, iruno
 * MartijnVdS gets huge white rectangles sometimes
<oimon> argh, what was the fix for griub>unknown filesystem when using 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/940603
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 940603 in unity (Ubuntu) "white box randomly shows up at top left corner blocking applications from using stuff under it" [High,Confirmed]
<popey> oimon: boot from live cd and chroot in and reinstall grub
<oimon> ok, the usual way then :D
<oimon> wow, in grub mode, this vaio is cooking REALLY hot
 * czajkowski pages popey to the bridge :) 
<popey> hmm?
<czajkowski> conference call
 * christel tickles ali1234 
<christel> er oops
<christel> i meant to tickle AlanBell
<christel> :x
<MartijnVdS> poor ali1234
<popey> haha
 * bigcalm_lappy waits in line for a typo tickling
 * popey tickles BigRedS 
 * AlanBell is duely tickled
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: You're ali1234 ?!?!
 * bigcalm_lappy grumbles
<AlanBell> no, I am sparticus
<bigcalm_lappy> No, I'm sparticus
<popey> http://www.thatsnerdalicious.com/food-porn/french-fry-coated-hot-dog-on-a-stick-lunch-time/
<popey> feeling peckish
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.pizza.co.uk/
<bigcalm_lappy> dominos.co.uk
<gord> when i was a kid and we got chippy, i'd hollow out the middle of the massive saussage and put chips in there, it was glorious
<bigcalm_lappy> I miss turkey sticks
<AlanBell> twizzlers
<bigcalm_lappy> No, not these
<davmor2> AlanBell: bigcalm_lappy: sit down I'm sparticus
<bigcalm_lappy> Cubes of breast meat and onion alternately on a wooden stick, battered and deep fried
<bigcalm_lappy> More of an 80s thing I think
<Dave2> deep fried onion?
<Dave2> sounds...lovely
<oimon> you called?
<bigcalm_lappy> I'm full and really don't need this cake
<bigcalm_lappy> Tasty is my downfall
<bigcalm_lappy> Did the same last night with steak & onion rings, followed by apple crumble
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: <to quote weird Al> "Eat it, just eat it eat it ha"
<Dave2> deep fried oimon.
<Dave2> on a stick.
<christel> AlanBell: did we settle on a lunch venue for tomorrow? :)
<oimon> i hate the ubiquity bug where the details terminal window is too small and you can't see why the installation has stalled
<christel> deep fried onion..
<christel> surely that works? arent onion rings deep fried?
<bigcalm_lappy> Yes
<Dave2> Yes, but they're rings
<Dave2> not cubes
<christel> haha
<Dave2> A lot more batter/less onion
<Dave2> Unless they're tiny cubes
<christel> *nod*
 * bigcalm_lappy looks at the cake infront of him
<bigcalm_lappy> Ug
<christel> the cake makes you ug?!
<MartijnVdS> Ugg cake
<bigcalm_lappy> christel: I was already full of tasty burger before I started on the cake
<bigcalm_lappy> MartijnVdS: anything like Ugg Boots?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: probably
 * bigcalm_lappy nods
<christel> ah i had biscuits for lunch
<christel> i was going to have pasta
<christel> only by the time i remembered that i was cooking pasta it had been boiling away for 40 minutes
<christel> (duh)
<MartijnVdS> VERY soft pasta :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Whoops
 * AlanBell checks the weather forecast for tomorrow
<AlanBell> looks nice and sunny
<davmor2> AlanBell: I can tell you now there will be weather
<AlanBell> looks like a nice day for sitting outside
<popey> â¹
 * popey will be sitting inside a crematorium â¹
<bigcalm_lappy> :(
<BigRedS> fI used to have a Firefox plugin that'd tell me which bits of a page took how long to download and render. Anyone know what it was? I Can't find it in the Add-ons search thing...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: firebug
<bigcalm_lappy> BigRedS: fire bug
<bigcalm_lappy> Then look in the Net tab
<MartijnVdS> and Yahoo made a plugin for that.. uhr.. yslow
<MartijnVdS> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/yslow/
<bigcalm_lappy> Is pagespeed another one?
<MartijnVdS> could be
<bigcalm_lappy> Or is that just a google made apache mod?
<MartijnVdS> sounds like it anyway :)
<christel> AlanBell: yeah it is supposed to be lovely!
<christel> popey: that does not sound like the best place to spend the day :/
<popey> indeed
<popey> my best friends' mum â¹
<MartijnVdS> :(
<BigRedS> Oh! I didn't realise Firebug did that
<BigRedS> pagespeed is an Apache mod
<bigcalm_lappy> That's what I thought
<bigcalm_lappy> One that looked good for a while but ended up caining my server and breaking my websites
<BigRedS> yeah
<christel> popey: i am sorry to hear that
<brobostigon> is it possible, to link the calendar dropdown, in unity's data time applet, to google calendar?
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> how?
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleCalendarWithEvolution
<brobostigon> thank you popey, but last time i tried, evolution didnt scale on my eeepc's screen, and was unable to set it up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ask chrisccoulson to do the same with Lightning will you? ;-)
<popey> brobostigon: you only need evolution to setup the connection
<popey> you could plug in an external display temporarily âº
<brobostigon> popey: that would be possible, yes.
<gord> there used to be some kind of smaller mode for evolution
<gord> evolution express maybe? something like that
<brobostigon> i will look,
<bittin> Hello, somone else have more problems with fan noise in the Pangolin beta?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> what kinda problems
<bittin> czajkowski: fan sound started to get louder but can be my fan in this 2-3year old pc thats started behave wierd
<bittin> also alt + tab don't work but that is already reported by people: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/955859
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 945816 in compiz (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #955859 [regression] Changing the HUD shortcut disables all Alt-based combinations. And changing the Dash shortcut disables all Super-based shortcuts." [Medium,Fix committed]
<bigcalm_lappy> I've broken davmor2
<czajkowski> oh dear
<czajkowski> why....
<bigcalm_lappy> It's quite amusing
<bigcalm_lappy> Looks like he's about to start drooling
<bigcalm_lappy> He was trying to remember how old he was in 2001
<AlanBell> bittin: is your CPU activity really high for some reason? that might make it run hot which will speed the fan up
<bigcalm_lappy> Stack over flow I'm guessing ;)
<AlanBell> christel: TheOpenSourcerer: if it is sunny I like the idea of the shepherd & flock
<AlanBell> and it looks like it will be nice
<bittin> AlanBell: no my load is 0.5
<bittin> and htop says 8 and 6 %
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: christel - Yeah - we can breath in the fumes from the traffic on the roundabout ;-)
 * bigcalm_lappy pokes Rackspace support with a stick
<bittin> root@ubuntu:/home/bittin# fancontrol
<bittin> Loading configuration from /etc/fancontrol ...
<bittin> Error: Can't read configuration file
<bittin> wonder if that has anything to do with it or if iam thinking wrong
<christel> AlanBell: sounds good to me, will it be dreadfully noisy? :)
<bittin> fan1:        1255 RPM
<bittin> fan2:        1010 RPM
<bittin> Core 0:       +43.0Â°C  (high = +86.0Â°C, crit = +100.0Â°C)
<bittin> Core 1:       +40.0Â°C  (high = +86.0Â°C, crit = +100.0Â°C)
<bittin> Ubuntu 12.04 beta 1 works better then i tough it would on this box :p
<bigcalm_lappy> Was that an /amsg ?
<AlanBell> christel: the beer garden behind the pub is not at all noisy
<christel> ooh there's one tucked away behind as well, i assumed it was just the seats you can see when you drive past!
<AlanBell> yup, there are seats front and back
<oimon> gnome-panel on 12.04 is almost awesome :D
 * AlanBell installs Oracle 11g :(
 * MartijnVdS cries for AlanBell 
<jacobw> evening
<ali1234> what's a virtual dedicated server?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's virtually dedicated
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/zqb84.jpg
<daftykins> aww yeah learning to snowboard <3
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that looks like an unhealthy relationship
<daftykins> the board, it beats me
<daftykins> D:
<jacobw> ali1234: perhaps it means not-a-container
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/gvGKk.jpg
<ali1234> wat
<daftykins> O_O
<MartijnVdS> No?
<daftykins> may go to my local tonight to watch over the students playing the quiz
<daftykins> maybe this time i'll shut up and not make a team win by giving two answers right at the end
<daftykins> they grabbed their winnings said bye to me and left! :O
<jacobw> :o
<jacobw> students..
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> though, i was one just 4 years ago
<daftykins> so i'm currently the "why is he so young" shifty regular sat at the bar talking to strangers
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> "Get of my lawn!"
<daftykins> well technically i'm the outsider here in England
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: isn't England your lawn? :)
<daftykins> only forced to be here to fix up and sell my house Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: no sir
<daftykins> i'm a Guernsey man
<MartijnVdS> not-quite-Frenchman ;)
<daftykins> precisely!
<daftykins> French-mutation as my dear Irish friend puts it
 * dwatkins is a foreignner everywhere
<daftykins> dwatkins: how's that?
<daftykins> nm must go - pub quiz o'clock!
<dwatkins> ciao daftykins
<dwatkins> (born in Switzerland, grew up in England, living in Scotland)
<daftykins> ah-har! :)
 * AlanBell boots Oracle Enterprise Linux
<popey> unlucky
 * MartijnVdS hands AlanBell something to collect his tears in
<MartijnVdS> or with
<AlanBell> the buttons are on the wrong side!
<hamitron> they are right?
<TonyNorfolk> hello
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> BT Wholesale has hijacked my browser connection
<popey> hello TonyNorfolk
<dwatkins> Taking Red Hats trademarks off Red Hat to make Oracle Linux seems a little cheeky.
<dwatkins> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=oracle says they do this anyway
<TonyNorfolk> Hello, does anyone have any idea why GParted Editor wont load?
<ali1234> is it possible to share links to u1 music store?
<popey> dwatkins: centos do it
<popey> ali1234: it used to be, yes
<ali1234> used to be?
<ali1234> why isn't it any more?
<popey> dunno if it still is
<dwatkins> popey: oh I thought Centos was kinda like opensuse to suse/sles, the test version
<AlanBell> http://62.6.38.125/index.html the whole web redirects there on port 80 right now
<ali1234> oh, ok
<popey> dwatkins: no, centos is just like oracle
<ali1234> well, how do i do it?
<dwatkins> I see, popey :)
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: do you get an error from it?
<popey> and scientific linux
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: I am a new Ubuntu user - 1 week! and loving it.  I click on the GParted Icon and it comes up with the authenticate message, I put my password in and then nothing happens.
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: cool, welcome :) are you running off a USB stick/CD image, or have you installed to your hard drive?
<ali1234> dwatkins: sles->opensuse, red hat->fedora
<dwatkins> today I learned that centos isn't what I thought it was and that my bicycle light is pretty useless in the dark :)
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: a complete install on my hard drive.  I am running 11.10
<ali1234> see also debian->ubuntu
<Azelphur> Fun programming question, in PHP what would be faster, Loading a 64x32 image file locally, cutting a part out and upscaling it to 88x88, or caching the 88x88 image on disk?
<ali1234> u1 doesn't have the album i wanted to link anyway :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: caching, but only do that if performance is actually an issue
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also: always use a profiler :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, I'm trying to write things as if performance was an issue :P
<ali1234> is this for a website?
<Azelphur> yes
<ali1234> cache it then
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: caching would also make it cacheable on the remote end
<MartijnVdS> (easier)
<MartijnVdS> which would be a plus
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I'm just installing gparted on my Ubuntu virtual machine, have you tried running it from the terminal?
<ali1234> why you even doing this?
<ali1234> need more information
<popey> found it
<popey> https://one.ubuntu.com/music/l/1501818/0
<popey> no idea how you get that link though âº
<ali1234> blah
<MartijnVdS> This song is not available to buy from the Ubuntu One Music Store in your country. Sorry!
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: i.e. by typing: gksu gparted
<ali1234> so i open the dash, click the musical note thingy, search for album
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: no i haven't - i'll try that
<Azelphur> ali1234: minecraft avatars
<ali1234> now i want to send the link to my buddy on facebook
<ali1234> wat do?
<Azelphur> download skin -> cut the face out -> upscale to a viewable size
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: thanks :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: send whole image to client, have the client do it in javascript
<ali1234> i'll post my u1 question on askubuntu actually
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: this is my error message
<Azelphur> ali1234: I tried that but the problem is some browsers like to scale images differently
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins:(gksu:16337): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "pixmap",
<Azelphur> ali1234: like chrome blurs the image in a horrible manner
<ali1234> chrome sucks
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: a quick search online suggests you need to install gtk2-engines-pixbuf
<dwatkins> I shall return shortly.
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: ok, ill search with synaptic
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/115211/how-do-i-share-links-to-album-in-the-u1-music-store
<ali1234> btw is anyone esle getting this error
<ali1234> Error while getting credentials: The '/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login/8' object does not exist
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: installed that, in terminal the command promt blinks for 2 or 3 seconds before completing - but nothing happens
<ali1234> while trying to open music store?
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: there is no error message now but still no program?
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: what are you trying to run?
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: when opening in unity the authenticate pops up but nothing starts when i enter my password
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: gparted
<ali1234> ok, on terminal:
<ali1234> gksudo gparted
<AlanBell> anyone know anything about Oracle? Specifically how to import a .dmp file in the enterprise manager web console thing
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: just tried that, thanks but still nothing
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: ok, try this
<ali1234> er, how do you get a shell prmpt with gksudo?
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: nothing came up after you typed ok, try this?
<ali1234> yeah i didnt type anything yet
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: oh sorry ;-)
<ali1234> gksudo strace gparted 2> /tmp/output.txt
<ali1234> try that
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: ok but nothing seemed to happen - has that saved a txt file
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> what is in the text file?
<TonyNorfolk> ok your probably bang your head off a wall - but how do I find that?
<ali1234> xdg-open /tmp/output.txt
<ali1234> don't paste it here though
<ali1234> just tell me if it's empty, or ctains lots of stuff
<TonyNorfolk> it is completely blank
<ali1234> hmm
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: really appreciate your help here
<ali1234> are you sure gparted is installed?
<popey> it isnt by default
<popey> its on the live cd, but it gets removed I _think_
<TonyNorfolk> yep it is in synaptic i check which version
<ali1234> yeah i know i just had to install it :)
<popey> yeah, my machine doesnt have it
<popey> TonyNorfolk: did you "apply" in synaptic?
<popey> to install it
<TonyNorfolk> 0.8.1-1ubutu4 and it has a green box
<bittin> was trying to carry home a Sun Blade 2000 on the subway and failed so hard so i dropped it off in the bushes atleast got a hot usb mouse
<TonyNorfolk> popey: yes i have applied - when I select it the apply is now greyed out
<ali1234> gksudo appears to be hiding the error message when a program isn't installed
<ali1234> argh what package is gksudo in?
<TonyNorfolk> is the same thing happening to you ali1234
<ali1234> is gksudo even the recommended way to run X11 apps as root?
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: sort of
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: what happens if you just run "gparted" without gksudo?
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: that is comforting as I thought it was my system
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: this stuff used to work until *somebody* decided ubutu was too complicated, and promptly broke it all
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234:do you mean type, gksu gparted?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> just gparted
<TonyNorfolk> Root privileges are required for running gparted.
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/sbin/gpartedbin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ali1234> ah there's your problem
<TonyNorfolk> how do I get root privileges?
<ali1234> with gksu
<ali1234> or gksudo
<ali1234> but the library error will still happen, you just wont see it
<ali1234> because gksu/gksudo is eating the error message
<ali1234> which is a bug
<TonyNorfolk> right I'm now with you - you lost me back there
<ali1234> do this:
<TonyNorfolk> do I need to install the libraries?
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install libgtkmm-2.4
<popey> interesting, how would that have happened
<ali1234> no idea
<popey> unless ubuntu-desktop or something is missing
<TonyNorfolk> they are loading in now
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bug/962528
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 962528 in gksu (Ubuntu) "gksu/gksudo hides error messsages when running programs" [Undecided,New]
<TonyNorfolk> have I done something wrong - I originally installed gparted from the software centre.  it didn't work so I unistalled using synaptic and the reinstalled it again, but it still didn't work.
<TonyNorfolk> thanks ali1234 I will go to launchpad and click that it also affects me
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> synaptic and software centre seem to be diverging on their dependency algorithms. see previous comment about breaking everything
<TonyNorfolk> right that has finished ali1234 - but I don't want to do anything until you say
<ali1234> just try to run gparted again without gksu
<AlanBell> yay, I think my oracle import is happening \o/
<ali1234> if it has another missing library, install it
<ali1234> repeat
<ali1234> when you get no errors except "you must be root" then run it with gksu or gksudo
<popey> what is responsible for drawing context menus?
<popey> is it compiz?
<TonyNorfolk> Root privileges are required for running gparted.
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/sbin/gpartedbin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234: it couldn't find the library
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> what version of ubuntu?
<TonyNorfolk> 11.10
<ali1234> maybe run ldconfig and try again
<ali1234> though that shouldn't be necessary
<ali1234> hmm 32 bit or 64 bit install?
<TonyNorfolk> 32 bit
<AlanBell> oracle 11g really is a huge steaming pile of dogs droppings disguised as a database
<TonyNorfolk> still nothing - so frustrating
<ali1234> yeah something really is wrong with your system
<ali1234> it might even be a different library to the one it claims due to the way linking works
<TonyNorfolk> o.k should I just uninstall gparted
<ali1234> that would be giving up
<popey> ali1234: bug 962545
<TonyNorfolk> I don't want to give up
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 962545 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Context menus change vertical size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962545
<popey> seen that?
<popey> AlanBell: very little competition
<ali1234> popey: i have not seen that. i haven't updated for a week or so though
<AlanBell> I think I would rather just remember all the data than put it in Oracle
<TonyNorfolk> is there anything I can run to check my system
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: yes. too many in fact
<ali1234> the trick is knowing where to start
<TonyNorfolk> I really don't know anything so would need guidance - but I'm worried about taking up so much of your time for something as small as Gparted
<dwatkins> ali1234: it appears 'gksu' as replaced 'gksudo'
<ali1234> yeah, bug affects both though
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: ok first of all please install a program called pastebinit if you have not already
<TonyNorfolk> just done that
<ali1234> ok do this: ldd /usr/sbin/gpartedbin | pastebinit
<ali1234> then paste here the url it prints out
<TonyNorfolk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/895668/
<ali1234> so line 3 and 5 indicates two missing libraries
<ali1234> open up synaptic and find the first one
<TonyNorfolk> yeah I just noticed that but I installed that with you
<TonyNorfolk> will
<TonyNorfolk> do
<ali1234> note that there's two versions
<ali1234> 2.4 and 3.something
<popey> i would do the magic "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" :D
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: by the way, if you know the name of a file you need, you can search for it with 'apt-file' (assuming that's installed) in case it's not clear what package it's a part of - use with caution, though
<ali1234> ah i think my system has the same problem
<ali1234> or similar
<ali1234> i keep seeing this in synaptic
<ali1234> where a library is marked as installed
<ali1234> but when i click properties and go to "installed files" tab
<ali1234> it says "installed files only available for packages that are installed"
<ali1234> and the library doesn't work
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: thanks
<ali1234> TonyNorfolk: so what happens when you go do that?
<TonyNorfolk> the .so.1 extension - I take it i dont need that
<ali1234> make sure that the libgdkmm-2.4 is installed too
<ali1234> d not t
<TonyNorfolk> nothing comes up for libgdkmm-2.4 in synaptic
<TonyNorfolk> for libgtdkmm there are four of them and they show as installed
<ali1234> in synaptic right click on the package and select properties
<ali1234> then go to installed files
<TonyNorfolk> I have done that
<ali1234> one of the files should say libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
<ali1234> where is it?
<TonyNorfolk> I am looking in libgtkmm-2.4-dev and cant find .so.1 - there is a .so thoght
<ali1234> where is that?
<ali1234> wait not dev
<ali1234> the other one
<TonyNorfolk> the 2.4c2a
<ali1234> yeah
<TonyNorfolk> the 2.4-1c2a
<TonyNorfolk> yeah ok got it
<ali1234> so what is the full path?
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgdkmm-2.4.so.1
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: how was your Ubuntu system installed? You appear to be missing some packages, and I'm wondering why.
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
<ali1234> dwatkins: the packages are not missing, they are clearly installed as this indicates :)
<TonyNorfolk> from a cd, but I had a nightmare with GRUB and partitioning my driv
<ali1234> ok so in terminal run file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
<TonyNorfolk> am i meant to put another command before file?
<MartijnVdS> no, "file" is the command you're running
<ali1234> no put exactly what i said
<TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$ file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: ERROR: cannot open `/usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1' (No such file or directory)
<TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$
<ali1234> so the package is installed but the files are missing
<TonyNorfolk> how can that be
<ali1234> no idea but here we are
<TonyNorfolk> do I reinstall these from somewhere
<TonyNorfolk> in synaptic? or would that not replace the files
<ali1234> synaptic won't
<ali1234> sudo apt-get --reinstall install libgtkmm-2.4
<TonyNorfolk> mmm knew it couldn't be simple lol
<TonyNorfolk> thats done ali
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234:
<ali1234> did it work?
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234:tony@AW2012:~$ file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
<TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: symbolic link to `libgtkmm-2.4.so.1.1.0'
<ali1234> so try running it again
<TonyNorfolk> is that right
<ali1234> yeah looks right
<TonyNorfolk> with gksu
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: which exact package did you install, as I have four which have libgtkmm-2.4 in the tite
<ali1234> dwatkins: the package must have been installed for the file path to appear in synaptic
<dwatkins> you could check this with: dpkg -l | grep libgtkmm-2.4
<dwatkins> ali1234: oh right, sorry, of course
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: it was the one with -1c2a
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: ok cool, that's the same one I have installed
<TonyNorfolk> BRILLIANT ALI1234 IT IS WORKING
<TonyNorfolk> THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH
<TonyNorfolk> YOU HAVE SHOWN ME SOME USEFUL TOOLS TOO
<TonyNorfolk> THANKS DWATKINS ALSO
 * dwatkins hands TonyNorfolk a pint of ribena and a new caps lock key ;)
<ali1234> you should watch out for files going missing
<ali1234> it isn't normal
<ali1234> may indicate filesystem troubles ahead
<ali1234> or maybe an update just messed everything up
<dwatkins> or disk failure, although that should be written in a great big message somewhere
<ali1234> check dmesg
<TonyNorfolk> ok - thanks ali - I really need to learn the terminal
<TonyNorfolk> Dwatkins: Ali1234: when I installed Ubuntu I had trouble with my partitions and it failed to install twice.
<TonyNorfolk> I had to resize my partitions in Windows (ahhh) and then try again
<TonyNorfolk> maybe that corrupted something
<dwatkins> hmmm, that shouldn't lead to random files missing, TonyNorfolk, but perhaps it's related
<dwatkins> as ali1234 suggests, run 'dmesg' in a terminal to see if there are errors reported in the messages since last boot
<TonyNorfolk> oops
<TonyNorfolk> I just checked terminal and although gparted has loaded it says this
<TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$ gksu gparted
<TonyNorfolk> ======================
<TonyNorfolk> libparted : 2.3
<TonyNorfolk> ======================
<TonyNorfolk> parted was unable to re-read the partition table on /dev/mapper/isw_hbafcagfj_ARRAY (Device or resource busy).  This means Linux won't know anything about the modifications you made.
<TonyNorfolk> Cannot have a partition outside the disk!
<TonyNorfolk> /dev/sdb: unrecognised disk label
<TonyNorfolk> what do I do
<dwatkins> probably best to use pastebin for that, TonyNorfolk
<dwatkins> anything over a single line is best not pasted straight into the IRC channel
<TonyNorfolk> oh, ok sorry
<ali1234> sounds like your partitioning is a bit messed up
<TonyNorfolk> Yes, on Gpated it is show errors on two arrays
<dwatkins> did you get it to repartition automatically when you installed this time around, TonyNorfolk?
<TonyNorfolk> no - it never gave me that option.
<dwatkins> hmmm, it should have let you choose where to install
<TonyNorfolk> yes I selected the new partition I created with partition manager in windows, but I still had to manually install it there.  Allocate a swap space etc... which to be honest I didn't really know what I was doing
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: are you good with partitions?
<TonyNorfolk> I was going to take a screenshot of what I have
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I wouldn't say they're my bestest friends, but I know them reasonably well
<TonyNorfolk> can I sent a screenshot
<TonyNorfolk> send
<dwatkins> you shouldn't need to use windows to partition for an Ubuntu installation
<dwatkins> it might be easier to re-do it from scratch, i.e. let it wipe the disk and put a standard partition layout on
<TonyNorfolk> I am now in Gparted
<dwatkins> you won't be able to change anything if you're booted from the disk itself, you'd need to completely wipe and reinstall to change/correct the partition layout
<TonyNorfolk> ok
<dwatkins> http://www.futuredesktop.org/oneiric/images/picture-3c.png - this is what you should see during install after bootingt from a USB stick and starting the installer
<dwatkins> http://www.futuredesktop.org/ might be worth a read, seems to be a fairly good tutorial on the process
<dwatkins> do you want any other operating system on the same disk, for dual-booting etc., TonyNorfolk?
<TonyNorfolk> yes that why I never selected that option.
<TonyNorfolk> I have to leave windows on here for my kids
<dwatkins> ok, so you have Windows on the other half of the disk?
<TonyNorfolk> yes
<TonyNorfolk> but for me Ubuntu is going to be my primary system
<dwatkins> yeah, I used to have a similar setup
<ali1234> i highly recommend moving windows to a virtual machine inside linux
<ali1234> it is much better than dual booting
<ali1234> for several reasons
<ali1234> not least that you can run them at the same time
<dwatkins> I respectfully disagree, ali1234, if it's for gaming running Windows natively will be much faster
<ali1234> if you are gaming use wine
<ali1234> for everything else use virtualbox
<dwatkins> if it's just for Windows applications, like MS Office, yeah
<ali1234> or adobe stuff
<dwatkins> I've not had much success with Wine, I guess.
<ali1234> wine is only really usable for games
<dwatkins> heh, I run all that on my work laptop ;)
<dwatkins> last time I checked the Wine HQ database for a game, it told me that Sim City 2000 has a bug in saving the city where it crashes
<ali1234> the dos version works well in dosbox
<ali1234> that's a windows 3.1 game anyway
<dwatkins> yeah, fair enough
<dwatkins> I think it ran ok on Windows 95, but I see your point
<ali1234> you might not get that one exact game you wat
<ali1234> but there certainly a LOT of games that work in wine
<ali1234> anything popular for example
<ali1234> WoW, anything based on source...
<dwatkins> neat
<ali1234> valve source
<ali1234> not open source
<dwatkins> I wonder if Homeworld 2 will run on my Mac...
<TonyNorfolk> you both have so much experience in linux - makes me envious
<dwatkins> yeah, I guessed you meant that
<ali1234> that's pretty much 99% of gamers
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: just takes time, is all
<ali1234> honestly i think you'd struggle to run sc2000 on windows 7 or w/e
<dwatkins> ali1234: L4D2 is probably the same engine too
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> dunno if it works... azelphur would know he's the source expert :)
<dwatkins> I'd run Sim City in Boxer/DOSbox but the resolution is awful ;)
<ali1234> tf2 certainly works
<Azelphur> source questions o.O
<ali1234> and so does portal
<Azelphur> what are we asking?
<ali1234> just saying, all the most popular games work in wine
<dwatkins> will L4D2 run in Ubuntu in Wine and on OS X in Wine?
<Azelphur> Yes but it has performance issues
<dwatkins> ok cool
<ali1234> steam officially supports OS X for some games now, check
<dwatkins> actually, there's an OS X port of it, so that's less of an issue ;)
<Azelphur> If you have a pretty beefy machine it'll run ok on minimum settings
<dwatkins> hehe
<ali1234> (it uses cider, which is based on wine)
<dwatkins> so, in summary: Wine is better than it used to be when I last tried using it :)
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> wine is always rapid improvement
<popey> steam on osx uses cider!?
<popey> I thought it was native
<dwatkins> heh, good job I didn't uninstall macports...
<Azelphur> yea I thought it was native too
<Azelphur> perhaps that's why we arn't getting a -opengl switch :(
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I was going to say: there are lots of tutorials on how to setup dual-booted systems, should be fairly straightforward given you have Windows on there already
<ali1234> if you like sim city you'll love dwarf fortress, which has a native linux version
<dwatkins> ooh
<ali1234> get the graphics pack though or you'll go ascii-blind
<dwatkins> oh my, yes - see what you mean
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: yeah I looked into it a lot when I installed Ubuntu - but my partitions were so messed up and I wasn't sure about which array was which etc. when I went to the install screen.  I think I will take your advice - I'm just backing up all my personal files at the moment
<dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: yeah, having at least two backups is always a good plan :)
<ali1234> popey: i don't know if it's for all games but certainly for some
<ali1234> or maybe i imagined it
 * AlanBell has data in oracle \o/
<AlanBell> all I need to do now is get it out again
<ali1234> hmm skyrim is rated gold on winehq
<ali1234> i bet it's not really gold
<TonyNorfolk> bye all
<TonyNorfolk> ali1234:thanks again
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins:thanks again
<Laney> gah
<Laney> how do people use the www without adblock?
<Laney> first link goes to a page with an advert that automatically starts playing sound
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-23
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<christel> good morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh we are all up early today.
<AlanBell> ooh the farnham posse are all awake
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> and in other news I got data out of Oracle 11g \o/
<christel> hooray
<AlanBell> it was a bit of a tussle, but I won in the end
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great. Well done.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Drop Tom a message so he can stop jumping on Omer.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: do I have to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<DJones> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - http://marshallfridge.com/
<AlanBell> lol
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> and it goes to 11!
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning morning
<DJones> Has anybody here bought an Asus transformer prime yet?
<diplo> Didn't popey get one ?
<diplo> DJones ^^ ?
<AlanBell> DJones: I am waiting for the infinity version
<DJones> AlanBell: I've not heard of that
 * DJones googles
<AlanBell> full HD screen
<DJones> Ah
<DJones> Tossing up beween getting a xoom 2/galaxy tab/prime  At the moment, the prime looks to be the best option
 * AlanBell cries at unbreakable linux
<daubers> AlanBell: did you break it?
<daubers> did czajkowski touch it? that normally breaks things
<dwatkins> I thought unbreakable linux was Red Hat 9
<czajkowski> daubers: oi
<christel> AlanBell: what time are we lunching? :)
<AlanBell> ooh about lunchtime I think
<AlanBell> dwatkins: I think it is redhat enterprise linux 5.5
<AlanBell> comes with no repositories working
<dwatkins> AlanBell: eek :-/
<czajkowski> anyone here run banshee?
<czajkowski> hands up ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nope
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> popey: can you launch it there and play a tune please
<popey> sure
<czajkowski> and tell me does it bomb out and die
 * popey listens to a bit of blondie
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol ^^ "(09:10:45) daubers: did czajkowski touch it? that normally breaks things"
<popey> diplo: no, i have a transformer, not a prime
<popey> have played with the prime and it's lovely
<popey> and I'd probably buy one if android didn't suck donkey balls :D
<diplo> ah, I'm saving up for a tabley
 * TheOpenSourcerer will stick CM9 on his touchpad soon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> In fact might do it this weekend.
<diplo> humphreybc reckons it works really well on his according to G+
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: I dont break things I bring to light their non workings :)
 * DJones suggests PEBKAC
 * TheOpenSourcerer and AlanBell are off to view some office space shortly. Expansion and growth are UNSTOPPABLE!
<AlanBell> then we are going to a pub
<AlanBell> for more expansion
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<czajkowski> hehe
<czajkowski> sounds like a great plan
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I'm going to pubs this evening too. And Curry.
<czajkowski> popey: did it close up at all ?
 * popey listens to more blondie
<popey> no czajkowski
<popey> czajkowski: run it in a terminal and see what happens
<czajkowski> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896184/
<popey> czajkowski: ubuntu-bug banshee
 * DJones wonders if the transformer prime is harder to get hold of than rocking horse droppings, all I want to do is go into a shop and look at one
<popey> they are lovely
<popey> almost ipad-levels of lovely ;)
 * AlanBell waits for the lovelier one
<DJones> They look great, and does everything I want (for work purposes of course, that it plays video & music/reads books/internet/email/minecraft etc is a perk
<popey> heh, minecraft
<DJones> pocket edition has survival mode now :)
<popey> yeah
<DJones> Not easy to play on a phone though
<DJones> Prime with keyboard could be just in time for going away for a week after easter
<AlanBell> yay I have installed MySQL-python on this thing
<AlanBell> only took an hour
<AlanBell> and the installation of the centos repositories
<czajkowski> ight bug logged
<czajkowski> great start to the day eh!
<popey> are you running latest 12.04?
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<czajkowski> popey: and remember we added my music to rhythmbox
<popey> ya
<czajkowski> well now Ive duplicate of everything in there
<popey> right click two tracks that are the same
<popey> look at the details and see where the files are
<czajkowski> come/czajkowski/.ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One/BeyoncÃ©/4   and /home/czajkowski/.local/share/ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One/BeyoncÃ©/4
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<arsen> whats the price on the prime?
<DJones> arsen: Â£500
<arsen> not bad eh :o
<arsen> well, wtihin ipad pricerange.
<gord> wow, thats expensive...
<DJones> Yeah, thats my thought, Tab is Â£480 and doesn't have sd card or hdmi built in
<DJones> so comparatively cheap
<gord> still way way too expensive for what it is
<popey> czajkowski: known bug
<popey> czajkowski: dobey working on it
<popey> hassle him, it's annoying me too
<gord> i "fixed" it, but you have to edit the python code
<popey> (which is why i currently use banshee)
<czajkowski> cant use banshee https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/962915  :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 962915 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Playing any audio files causes banshee to quit" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> need my music fix while working
<popey> czajkowski: are you at home?
<popey> is there a mac on the network sharing out music?
<czajkowski> I am
<czajkowski> let me see
<popey> s/mac/itunes/
<czajkowski> ahh no but I think he has them on the tv as it's apple tv
<czajkowski> good thinking :D
<popey> well, hang on
<popey> can you test whether banshee plays music if you go 'offline'
<popey> i.e. switch off wifi or disconnect
<popey> so, shut close banshee, down wifi, open banshee, play song
<popey> see if it works
<czajkowski> nods
<meet> in gnome 3, all status indicator icons like pidgin or clementime integration are hidden at the right bottom screen. I am not able to get them at the top besides the time date or poweroff icons. what can i do?
<popey> meet: when you say 'gnome 3' do you mean 'gnome shell'?
<popey> meet: perhaps there is an extension to do that, i don't know, I don't use gnome shell. http://extensions.gnome.org/
<meet> i am new to this..could you explain? I installed the gnome 3 on unity from software center
<popey> meet: welcome to the madhouse! âº
<popey> meet: you were in unity, installed gnome shell and logged out and back in, and now you have gnome shell open?
<meet> ya. i had five options at the login screen- gnome, classic, (something else), unity, unity 2d
<meet> popey: i selected gnome
<popey> gotcha meet
<popey> so, I have no idea, I dont run gnome shell, sorry. but there might be an extension to fiddle with the user interface at http://extensions.gnome.org/
<meet> ok thanks. :)
<brobostigon> meet: also have a look at gnome-tweak-tool, it gives loads of options to mess with gnome3 generally.
<czajkowski> popey: bach cant see his itunes folder, nm no biggies cheers for the help
<popey> czajkowski: but does banshee play music when offline?
<czajkowski> nope
<popey> interesting
<popey> gord: http://paste.ubuntu.com/896252/
<popey> why does my ATI based machine say VMware as the vendor?
<gord> popey, because your using software renderering
<gord> llvm pipe is software rendering
<popey> should be using hardware, it's a radeon
<popey> 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS880M [Mobility Radeon HD 4200 Series]
<gord> should be using hardware but X decided to load llvm pipe, i'd try forcing radeon in xorg.conf
<popey> j
<popey> k even
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<DJones> Right, transformer prime ordered
<davmor2> I'll try that again Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrro
<davmor2> czajkowski: I have a feeling it's gonna be one of those days :(
<bigcalm> Friday!
<czajkowski> davmor2: but it;s SUNNY
<czajkowski> and FRIDAY!
<christel> AlanBell: i still think you should take over the plough as your new premises and also run the pub, "The Lord and Bell" has a certain ring to it
<christel> i'd go there for a pint or five!
<davmor2> czajkowski: I've already had half a dozen calls off the step son after his nan and mom, I've had to restart my router to make the internet work, and then restart xchat cause not all the channels came back to life so you tell me :)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm recovered from being out numbered by canonical staff again yesterday
<czajkowski> davmor2: *hugs*
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'll never get used to it
<davmor2> lukasz said after you left maybe it's a sign that you need to join canonical :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> czajkowski: we had you counter part there yesterday Lukasz Czyzykowski
<czajkowski> ahhh really
<czajkowski> his name confuses me
<czajkowski> it's spelled wrong :)
<christel> lol
<bigcalm> Says you
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> czajkowski: it's sounds like yours but with a stutter at the beginning
<Dave2> czy<tab>
 * Dave2 runs
<davmor2> czajkowski: now that's not on he told us the meaning of your name, now if only I could remember it, something like singing lark, I'll have to prod him to check there was certainly a bird of some sort in it
<davmor2> czajkowski: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Czajkowski :)
<davmor2> lapwing I was close I knew there was a bird in there :)
<bigcalm> That block of text is not very easy to read for some reason
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<arsen> _^
<arsen> ^_^
<sally_cinnamon> =)
<davmor2> s-fox: sally_cinnamon
<davmor2> sally_cinnamon: you trying our a new nick
<AlanBell> christel: we are heading for the pub
<davmor2> AlanBell, christel: Enjoy !
<hoover> hi folks
<davmor2> hello hoover
<sally_cinnamon> davmor2,  no
<christel> AlanBell: ok! i shall join you shortly!
 * daubers ponders lunch
<hoover> Hmmm, Pub
<daubers> does ubuntu still use plymouth
<popey> yes
<daubers> ta
<popey> âº
<daubers> things change so often I sometimes struggle to keep up
 * bigcalm thinks he won't get to the pub in time for lunch with the gang
<bigcalm> 3 hour drive 'n all...
<Pendulum> bigcalm: wimp :P
<Pendulum> you should have started driving 3 hours ago
<bigcalm> Pendulum: I'm saving my energy for oggcamp (where and whenever it might be)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: good morning!
<Pendulum> bigcalm: was about to asked how you missed me in that other channel, but I think I showed up just as you restarted
<davmor2> daubers: you think you struggle to keep up sometimes,  I think you over estimate you're ability and keeping up ;)
<hoover> too bad biggie
<popey> bug
<popey> bah
<popey> bug 963029
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 963029 in unity-lens-music (Ubuntu) "Lens unicode support is inconsistent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963029
<popey> anyone fancy confirming that on 12.04
<davmor2> popey: you have unicode tunes ;)
<popey> maybe âº
 * AlanBell wonders where the christel is
<davmor2> popey: it seems to work fine for Â¥
<davmor2> popey: and â
<bigcalm> Friday might be chippy day
<bigcalm> Hummmm
<bigcalm> Or is it subway again?
<davmor2> bigcalm: compromise grab a butter sub and then a cone of chips and merge the 2 together :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: chip sub sarnie you know it makes sense
<bigcalm> Tempting, but too much hassle :)
 * bigcalm trundles off into town
<DJones> \o/ Your amazon order has been dispatched :)
<dogmatic69> I have been having problems with mail, and turns out sendmail + postfix are running
<dogmatic69> should i apt-get remove sendmail
<j0nr> ok folder is chown root.www-data ... I am member of group www-data... why cant I create files in there?
<j0nr> perms are drwxrwxr-x
<ali1234> in SQL can i have a key that is both primary key and foreign key? ie 1:1 correspondence between two tables?
<ali1234> more importantly, is it a good idea?
<ali1234> i want to extend an existing wordpress table, but i don't want to mess with their schema
<j0nr> ah, "newgrp www-data" in that window refreshed the perms
<ali1234> and i don't wat to use wp_meta
<ali1234> ah never mind i understand it now
<dogmatic69>  ali1234: you want a hasOne relation Say users table hasOne profile, in profiles table stick user_id. You can make user_id a pk, but I like to always have a id field
<ali1234> dogmatic69: it's like this
<ali1234> wordpress has table wp_posts
<ali1234> i made a custom post type
<ali1234> i need to store a crapload of stuff about said custom posts
<ali1234> so i have my own table for that
<dogmatic69> ye, that is the same.
<ali1234> called "videos" - so wp_posts to videos is 1 to 0 or 1
<ali1234> now i also have a voting table where each row is a vote combining a playlist, video, and user
<ali1234> so videos(ID) is foreign key to wp_posts(ID)
<ali1234> and then votes has foreign key video_id which points to video(ID)
<ali1234> which means video(ID) is both a foreign and primary key at the same time
<ali1234> but i realised i can just make votes(video_id) point directly at wp_posts primary key instead
<ali1234> because it's the same value
<dogmatic69> it will work, I prefer having the id on all tables, less confusing
<ali1234> well that's the point
<ali1234> the ID is on all tables, but it's the same ID
<ali1234> i don't want to have two unique IDs on one table :)
<ali1234> but i dn't have to so it's all good
<dogmatic69> if you were talking about millions of records, I would go with your way as you will save 100's of mb of redundant info
<bigcalm> Oh poo. The camera app has stopped working on my nexus one
<gord> bigcalm, restarted?
<ali1234> dogmatic69: thats my SQL http://paste.ubuntu.com/896442/
<Nafallo> hmmm... ICS should be due soon...
<bigcalm> gord: rebooted, powered off, battery removed, still force closes
<ali1234> hmm i see bugs, better fix them
<gord> bigcalm, i blame your evil hacker flashing
<dogmatic69> ali1234: whats with the $ $videos_table
<bigcalm> gord: How long has the n1 been out? I put cm on it maybe a month after release. Worked 100% until today
<dogmatic69> is that a holder for prefix?
<ali1234> dogmatic69: yes, it inserts the table name with the wordpress db prefix set by user
<ali1234> $votes_table = $wpdb->prefix . "videovote_votes";
<gord> bigcalm, and my 100% native since i got it install still works! correlation absolutely = causation!
<ali1234> etc
<bigcalm> Haha
<dogmatic69> ali1234: bigint() is a bit overboard, unless you are looking to create 18446744073709551615 posts
<bigcalm> Afternoon aq
<ali1234> dogmatic69: that's the type wordpress uses for IDs, so I have to use it too
<ali1234> i suppose i don't have to use it for ballots and votes but, consistency, you know
<directhex> using huge integer types seemed silly to twitter, too
<ali1234> yeah? did they run out then?
<ali1234> i'm not making the next twitter anyway
<ali1234> if this site gets 10 hits a day it will be deemed a success
<directhex> they did. twittergeddon!
<directhex> biggest problem was twitter clients built into mobile phones, which were hardcoded to use the smaller data type
<ali1234> they've got that facebook sim now
<ali1234> wonder how long before that gets broken by an api update
<ali1234> actually it probably requires an intermediate server anyway
<gord> cleaning desk, found random vga->dvi converter, score!
<gord> i love hidden desk treasure
<bigcalm> But what will you do with it?
<gord> put it in the draw with the rest of the useless desk treasures obviously?
<bigcalm> Silly me
<gord> it can make friends with the old mobile phone chargers and PS/2 connectors
<bigcalm> AlanBell: did christel find you?
<christel> bigcalm: she did!
<christel> we drank lovely pints and ate food
<christel> she is a bit daft mind, i was convinced that place was "just down the road from me"
<christel> so i walked down..
<christel> it wasnt "just down the road from me"
<christel> well, it is just down the road in the car i guess...
<bigcalm> Whoopsie
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes :)
<AlanBell> it is a lovely day for an unhurried lunch :)
<davmor2> christel: mind you nice weather to walk in right :)
<christel> AlanBell: have you looked at riverside park? (i am not entirely sure where it is but i think behind thai lotusland somewhere?)
<christel> tho they may be very similar to regus
<AlanBell> christel: we tried to find it this morning
<christel> aha!
<christel> is it well hidden? :x
<AlanBell> yup
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice lunch eh?
<bigcalm> My boss keeps chickens, he also keeps 2 cats...
<bigcalm> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/526892_10150607014195829_708650828_9643535_2026130720_n.jpg
<bigcalm> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538206_10150607027885829_708650828_9643604_967181359_n.jpg
<bigcalm> I have to say that that is a pretty tabby :)
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: very nice! thank you both for providing such wonderful company!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Likewise. Have a great weekend christel
<christel> and you!
<marcushaslam> ntersting
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer, AlanBell: man how you gonna get your heads through doorways now with compliments like that,  christel you're not thinking this through at all are you :D
 * oimon has eaten too many sweets today
<davmor2> christel: that or you're more evil that I realise Muhahahahahahahaha
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: I'm used to it. :-)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: have you invested in lollypop shaped doorways then :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> No but that's a good idea.
<christel> davmor2: haha, i only speak the truth!
<davmor2> christel: oh so you have an underlying evil current then :D
 * daubers wonders if there's an anti-christel
<christel> haha
<davmor2> daubers: I think the way you need to get round it is o.d. on christel then she has no effect on you, same as czajkowski
<oimon> somehow my gmail account has got on a spam list, where i've received 20 spam in < 24 hours, where usually i received nearly no spam in my gmail :(
<oimon> really annoying
<diplo> Same happened to me oimon
<diplo> :/
<gord> doesn't gmail handle them properly? its been a long time since gmail has let a spam mail get in my inbox
<diplo> yeah most of the time id say
<diplo> just a shitter that actually getting stuff
<diplo> :)
<oimon> gord, they are getting into my inbox
<oimon> the spam folder has 50 messages today
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: language please...
<oimon> went to a trade fair today
<oimon> got loads of stress toys
<oimon> and 30 pens
<oimon> and tubs of jelly babies
<christel> davmor2: there is no evil christel, honestly
<davmor2> christel: hahaha I was only joking, you're like czajkowski too nice to really be evil :)  but don't tell her I said that it'll ruin her rep :D
<oimon> diplo, just got another one?
<diplo> nope
 * diplo has been tagging music files on and off for 2 days now :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> 12.04 Beta2 building now. http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity-5.8-out,-ready-for-beta2!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder of bug 160311 is fixed (again).
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
<bigcalm> It's a pixel hunt
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm on 10.10 which has the problem. It's a PITA
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a really sensitive mouse and it's still hard!
<bigcalm> 10.10 or 11.10?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 10.10
<TheOpenSourcerer> Proper Gnome :-)
<sally_cinnamon> oh wow - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17491344
<sally_cinnamon> that is so wrong
<AlanBell> sally_cinnamon: yeah, I just looked up the lyrics to the borat version. I can see why they are not very happy with it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's so funny. Film banned in both countries.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get's played in one to the other
<ali1234> i just read that
<ali1234> pretty hilarious
<ali1234> so i'm ripping a live stream from youtube, as you do
<ali1234> it's like 6 hours long though
<ali1234> and i noticed that the youtube content server will only hand you 2GB of the file in one session
<ali1234> so if you actually tried to watch all 6 hours in one go you would get disconnected roughly every 1 hour 45 minutes
<ali1234> which sucks
<ali1234> so i'm grabbing it in parallel so i have some overlap
<ali1234> but i'll need to somehow find the joins
<AlanBell> is it that exciting?
<ali1234> i don't want to watch it at all
<ali1234> it's for someone else
<AlanBell> 2oh the "just downloading it for a friend" story ;)
<bigcalm> ;)
<ali1234> yeah well this is what happens when people find out you know how to pick locks
<ali1234> anyway, how am i going to join up the parts?
<ali1234> i think i will have to scan through the stream packets
<ali1234> it's not like subsections of one big file, it has a header
<ali1234> maybe i can just cut that off
<quackers> am I logged in here now?
<quackers> it seems so
<ali1234> i wonder just how expensive "longest common substring" operation is on 2x 2GB files
<angela-android> hello quackers
<AlanBell> hi quackers
<quackers> angela-android, hello
<bigcalm> Hi quackers
<sally_cinnamon> ali1234,  You are ripping content from youtube?
<ali1234> yeah
<quackers> AlanBell,  hello!
<quackers> ali1234,  hi
<ali1234> hiya
<quackers> bigcalm,  howdy
<sally_cinnamon> http://www.youtube.com/t/terms - section 9.1 forbids downloading content
<sally_cinnamon> ^ ali1234
<ali1234> am i bovvered though?
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi
<davmor2> czajkowski: shhhh I said you was nice but I don't think anyone notice, our little secret ;)
<quackers> o/ forestpiskie
<bigcalm> Really CBA today :(
<forestpiskie> hi quackers
<davmor2> bigcalm: and that is different to a normal day how?
<bigcalm> davmor2: today I really CBA. The weather is too night
<bigcalm> nice
<bigcalm> I spent my lunch hour in the garden :)
<quackers> so did my dogs
<quackers> different garden though
<bigcalm> I can confirm that there were no dogs in my garden
<quackers> :-)
<AlanBell> I can confirm that there had been a big fat smelly dog visiting the pub garden we were at
<AlanBell> spotted a large deposit after we had eaten
<quackers> oh dear, where was its owner?
<forestpiskie> fighting
<AlanBell> gone, with the dog, and left the evidence
<forestpiskie> :(
 * AlanBell isn't a dog person really
<AlanBell> just chickens, more pubs should have chickens wondering around the garden
<quackers> they have their place - but the pub garden is not one of them
<popey> o/
<BigRedS> their place is generally places I'm not at or going to be at
<quackers> or ducks :-)
<AlanBell> danfish_: how are the ducks?
<quackers> waddling about fine thanks
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I want chinese duck rolls now...
<Nafallo> "thanks"
<AlanBell> funnily enough we have duck and pancakes cooking right now
<quackers> my brothers!!!!
<forestpiskie> run quackers
<AlanBell> with hoi san sauce
<ali1234> duckroll?
<quackers> bad people!
<AlanBell> nom nom nom
<quackers> :-)
<Nafallo> hmm. I'm actually going to drool I think.
<quackers> again?
<bigcalm> Bother, want duck pancake rolls now
<czajkowski> ohh crispsy duck
<czajkowski> panckakes
<czajkowski> some fried rice
<bigcalm> Wonder how I can sneak some in tonight while Hayley is out
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, she's just returned home!
<quackers> o/ Hayley
<AlanBell> I think I need more chickens
<quackers> KFC?
<AlanBell> http://www.bhwt.org.uk/cms/re-home-some-hens/
<czajkowski> dwatkins: do you work on banshee?
<bigcalm> I've just been put in charge of 2 Debian squeeze servers
<bigcalm> Is bash not installed by default?
<bigcalm> And is it worth installing dotdeb?
<sally_cinnamon> hmmm. well. i thought things were better than that in here. apparently not.
<bigcalm> Better than what?
<gordonjcp> better than the Stone Roses' second single
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better than Battenburg cake
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right. Time I started a slow amble toward to a night on the sauce...
<brobostigon> i am looking for a way of backing up on ubuntu server, the world dir from minetest, and it doing said automatically, what is a good solution. ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you backup the world file of a running server without problems?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i just tried manually, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: then I'd say some kind of rsync script/solution
<MartijnVdS> dejadup is the Ubuntu default, but I've never used it
<MartijnVdS> rsnapshot is OK but very picky about tabs in its config file
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: a script may work, just automating copying the world dir out, into a backup folder.?
<MartijnVdS> yes, but then you don't get multiple (Rolling) backups
<MartijnVdS> so you can't fall back more than once
<brobostigon> true point,
<brobostigon> pmt@taylorworld:~/minetest$ rsync -azvv /home/pmt/minetest/world/ /home/pmt/world.backup/
<MartijnVdS> watch out
<brobostigon> that is what i have. after reading about rsync,
<MartijnVdS> if the "source" part in rsync ends in a /, it will do something strange
<MartijnVdS> rsync a/ b -> puts all files in "a" in "b"
<MartijnVdS> rsync a b -> puts a directory called "a" (with a's contents) in b
<brobostigon> hmm, ok.
<MartijnVdS> does that make sense? :)
<brobostigon> yes
<ali1234> good grief this youtube thing is presented by george lamb
<ali1234> brobostigon: rsync has a --dryrun switch
<ali1234> or similar. just says what it is going to do. quite useful
<brobostigon> ali1234: thank you, didnt read about that. :)
<ali1234> wow...
<MartijnVdS> the rsync manpage is LONG :)
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/896872/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what do?
<ali1234> it takes the last 10000 bytes of file A
<ali1234> then finds their offset in file B
<MartijnVdS> 1000?
<ali1234> oh yeah 1000
<MartijnVdS> yes.. \o/ python
<ali1234> well, substring length doesn't matter
<MartijnVdS> it's like grep
<ali1234> what matters is a gave it two 2GB files and it completed in 4 seconds
<MartijnVdS> Vewy nice
<ali1234> the match was exactly half way through as expected
<ali1234> i didn't think it would be that fast
<MartijnVdS> Maybe the files are "hot" in cache?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> i have 16GB so basically any files is always cached after it has been read once
<ali1234> i bet it will be slower when i write the concatenated file
<ali1234> yeah i can increase the substring size to 100MB and it still takes 4 seconds
<ali1234> and so this method is obviously valid for joining ripped flv streams :)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<directhex> hooray i got some decorating done
<davmor2> directhex: you know the place is set to self destruct if you finish though right?
<directhex> davmor2: yeah, like i'm gonna finish. five different paints, for the room! five!
<davmor2> directhex: sadtrombone.com
<directhex> tomorrow i start on paint 3 and possibly 5, depending on the time
<MartijnVdS> MS-Paint?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/oneiric/paintsupreme/
<ali1234> if it was after the watershed i'd post a humorous video right about now
<ali1234> but it's very nsfw
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: or https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/oneiric/kidspainter/
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: l'expensive
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://i.imgur.com/bzAVM.jpg
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: paintsupreme isn't so bad and it's useful too
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: that's not good that's 2 clockwork orange in 2 parts
<ali1234> so... what are the odds that openshot will explode if i try to edit a 8 hour/8GB video file with it?
<mgdm> evens at best
<ali1234> do we have blu-ray authoring software on ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> Does a VM with Windows count?
<ali1234> no
<diplo> evening all
<ali1234> hmm i think i finally exceeded disk cache
<davmor2> ali1234: technically no but I think it's partially on it's way
<jacobw> hi
<quackers> hi jacobw
<popey> Evening all
<quackers> o/ popey
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<Azelphur> gah, the Ubuntu package for conky is still borked :(
<Azelphur> you'd think conky would have pushed a release lol
<quackers> how so? is this for 12-04?
<Azelphur> no, 11.10
<Azelphur> execpi is broken :/
<Azelphur> it puts ugly boxes all over the place
<Azelphur> hehe
<jacobw> that sounds like conky :p
<quackers> I haven't checked 11-10 for a while. It was ok last time I looked
<quackers> something changed then?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3411610&group_id=143975&atid=757308 this bug :P
<quackers> I use an adapted version of VinDSL's script and it has different sections for conky 1.8.0 and conky 1.8.1 in certain respects
<popey> Azelphur: are you using unity or some other desktop?
<Azelphur> popey: XFCE
<popey> gotcha
<popey> does it use compiz?
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> do me a favour.. install powertop
<Azelphur> done
<popey> sudo powertop, and wait for 30 seconds or so to see it settle
 * Azelphur waits for settling
<popey> second column, wakeups per second
<popey> what do you see for compiz?
<Azelphur> events/s category?
<popey> yeah, the one thats just a number
<Azelphur> 25.4
<Azelphur> changed to 17.5
<popey> nice
<popey> 12.04?
<Azelphur> 11.10
<popey> k
<popey> thanks
<Azelphur> gone back up to 27.5 hehe
<Azelphur> happen to know how I might check out 1.8.2 from conkys git? they bundle all the versions inside one git repo
<Azelphur> they seem to have different heads \o/
<popey> no, sorry
<Azelphur> yay for git fun
<directhex> popey: you're an evil apple user, right?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> he sometimes wears devil horns and scares little children for fun
<quackers> don't all Apple users do that?
<Azelphur> indeed
<directhex> popey: would you have a use for a Â£15 itunes gift card?
<dwatkins> I don't
<popey> i would, yes
<popey> i can paypal you the cash
<directhex> 'cos we're really unlikely to use this
<popey> would be useful as a preseie for sophie
<popey> now she has an ipod
<popey> directhex: how much do you want for it? :D
<directhex> popey: a sensible & fair value. you want the physical card posting, or just the redemption code from the back?
<ali1234> i've still got that $34 on amazon.com gift balance, and they won't ship a kindle from .com store to the UK any more, so i need to get rid of that some how
<bigcalm> Buy ebooks
<bigcalm> Or musics
<ali1234> i would if a knew how
<directhex> porn!
<ali1234> can i use that giftcard balance to pay for ec2 stuff?
<ali1234> hmm... no cost limiting, terrible customer support, and it's really expensive... you know what? i think i'll give AWS a miss...
<ali1234> can i run ubuntu on azure?
<dwatkins> Is it not OS-agnostic, ali1234?
<ali1234> i don't know?
<ali1234> that's why i asked?
<dwatkins> allegedly they are enabling linux this year
<dwatkins> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-to-enable-linux-on-its-windows-azure-cloud-in-2012/11508
<ali1234> i can handle "losing state" - so is it possible to do it today?
<ali1234> what kind of virtualization do they use?
<DJones> Heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v0FVm_H_D18
<directhex> ali1234: microsoft? hyper-v
<ali1234> hmm... are there any other providers at all that do what AWS does?
<ali1234> rackspace seems to have something
<dwatkins> what features are you looking for, ali1234?
<ali1234> ability to use juju to manage virtual machines
<ali1234> or at least the possibility of implementing it
<ali1234> ie that means an API for uploading images and provisioning vm instances
<ali1234> oh, and the ability to set a fixed cost limit
<ali1234> basically i want to use juju, but i don't want to spend more than about $15-$20 per month
<dwatkins> can you run your own virtual host with it?
<ali1234> yes, if you buy a dedicated server
<ali1234> but that costs more than $20/month
<dwatkins> I mean a local machine
<ali1234> yes, but then nobody else can access it
<dwatkins> I can set ports to forward on my router
<ali1234> i'm not hosting a website on my broadband
<dwatkins> I could also take my server and place it in a server room on someone's DMZ
<ali1234> again, that would cost more than $20/month
<dwatkins> What do you want the server to do?
<ali1234> run wordpress
<ali1234> and maybe some collaboration software
<ali1234> and perhaps a file server
<dwatkins> how about an account on wordpress.com?
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> i'd just get a VPS
<dwatkins> yeah, unmanaged ones can be fairly cheap
<ali1234> that *does* cost less than $20/month and can easily do everything i need
<dwatkins> Something like http://vps.net/ ?
<dwatkins> hmmm, perhaps not quite that cheap
<ali1234> that isn't "real" cloud computing though
<ali1234> i can't use it with juju. it's just regular VPS hosting
<dwatkins> no, you probably have to pay more for proper clustering
<ali1234> not really, actually
<dwatkins> oh?
<ali1234> on amazon i could get 2 or maybe 3 micro instances for about the same price as a VPS
<dwatkins> well they have the economy of scale on their side, I assume
<ali1234> but there's no way to limit bandwidth costs (you pay 12p per gigabyte)
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> brb
<ali1234> and their customer service is terrible
<ali1234> so basically i want exactly what AWS offers for the same price, but run by someone that isn't amazon
<AlanBell> sounds interesting
<AlanBell> how would I go about offering that?
<ali1234> well first i would get a few million in capital
<AlanBell> yup, then what?
<ali1234> then i'd hire someone to run it for me and take all the profit
 * AlanBell moves to step 2
<AlanBell> bypassing the inconvenient step1
<AlanBell> juju can do lcx containers or something like that
<ali1234> yeah but as previously stated that requires getting a dedi which is too expensive
<AlanBell> yeah, but I have 4 of them and I am cool with getting more
<AlanBell> I can see a potential opportunity to provide a kind of micro-amazon service here
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> they don't scale down enough
<ali1234> AWS micro instances even is overkill for what i need
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> like i said on G+ i could run the 6 websites i run now on one micro
<AlanBell> messing about with juju requires about 3 instances before you get off the ground
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> to do anything remotely interesting you need to not be gasping at the wallet if you spin up 10 just because you feel like it
<ali1234> the difference between juju/AWS and "what i need" is like the difference between a high end RAID and a cheap-ass JBOD
<AlanBell> yeah, we might be able to be the cheep-ass JBOD providor you are looking for
<ali1234> i need something that can corral a bunch of random homogenous servers
<ali1234> *virtual servers
<ali1234> or yeah, just cheaper and smaller instance provider :)
<ali1234> but at the end of the day, if it's all running out of one dedi, is it really even worth it?
<AlanBell> depends on the objective
<AlanBell> if the objective is to run it on juju, then I guess so
<ali1234> well i don'tjust want to run it for the sake of it
<AlanBell> if the objective is to just run the damn thing then not really
<ali1234> ease of deployment is one part of it
<ali1234> the possibility of redeploying on bigger instances later is a good thing to have too
<AlanBell> I will try to find out what might be involved in setting that kind of thing up
<AlanBell> I can see an opportunity for a juju specific cloud service with a different pricing structure to amazon
<ali1234> how would it be different?
<AlanBell> dunno yet
<ali1234> i really just need smaller slices, that's all
<AlanBell> maybe just a single overall quota and a fixed monthly
<ali1234> i don't mind if the cost is variable, i just want to be able to specify an absolute maximum limit :)
<AlanBell> you have 100GB of storage, 4GB ram, run as many instances of whatever size you like within that
<AlanBell> for example
<AlanBell> what happens at the maximum limit? things get turned off?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> or rate limited
<dwatkins_> may I add you guys on G+
<AlanBell> our bandwidth is all you can eat
<AlanBell> up to a very silly limit
 * dwatkins_ inserts a question mark somewhere in that sentence
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts
<dwatkins_> cheers AlanBell
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/117044437831175918422/posts
<ali1234> i don't post much :)
<ali1234> and when i do it's just complaining
 * dwatkins_ is https://plus.google.com/u/0/113887142977624814920/posts for the record
<AlanBell> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex5 these are the servers we use mostly
<ali1234> AlanBell: heh, mer project uses those too... cos they need to run lxc for obs
<ali1234> ok ok acronym overload
<ali1234> obs = open build service, builds stuff in VMs... can't run it on a virtual server for that reason. pretty much same problem i have
<AlanBell> right
<AlanBell> currently we slice those servers up with KVM
<AlanBell> customers get their system that runs, we don't specify the ram and disk space they purchase, it is just "enough"
<AlanBell> if they need more ram we give them more ram etc
<AlanBell> most are 1 or 2GB vms
<ali1234> i really have no idea how popular this website is going to be... at all
<AlanBell> up to about 10 per host
<ali1234> but i suspect the answer is "not very"
<AlanBell> generally we don't sell ourselves as a hosting providor, but we do provide hosting for our consultancy customers if they want
<ali1234> so i'd like the ability to grow, but i definitely want to start out tiny
<ali1234> a week ago i would have been happy to just get an unmanaged VPS and do it all myself
<ali1234> but juju just looks so easy
<AlanBell> wonder how many lcx containers will fit on 24GB of ram
<ali1234> i'd guess a lot
<AlanBell> bed time for me, night all o/
<ali1234> night
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-24
<dwatkins_> ciao
<forestpiskie> hello ma
<forestpiskie> hello matt_symes
<forestpiskie> even
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hey pa
<matt_symes> hello forestpiskie
<forestpiskie> didn't expect to see me in here
<matt_symes> you're up late :) Must be the weekend.
<matt_symes> I've heard you forest folk get about
<forestpiskie> 3 giggling 12 year olds woke me up :(
<daftykins> D:
<forestpiskie> I should learn to say no more often :p
<daftykins> probably shouldn't tell us more
<matt_symes> Better than any alarm clock
<forestpiskie> ha ha ha
<forestpiskie> I'll learn 'em though - lights on at 6am :D
<matt_symes> revenge ;) lol
<forestpiskie> daftykins: I'm a soft single dad who takes it out on forum trolls lol
<daftykins> :D
<forestpiskie> matt_symes: indeed  - it went a bit quiet when I turned the upstairs leccy off
<daftykins> XD
<matt_symes> nice move
<forestpiskie> oh lord - english tv at silly o'clock includes the twoering inferno then
<matt_symes> Must remember that one
 * forestpiskie puts music on 
<forestpiskie> matt_symes: it worked surprisingly quickly lol
<daftykins> with the kids today i'd have thought changing the wireless key would scupper them
<matt_symes> :D
<forestpiskie> ha ha ha
<forestpiskie> she uses linux ... she's had to work things out :)
<daftykins> excellent training
<forestpiskie> yep
<forestpiskie> strange noises from the school though lol
<andylockran> howdy
<forestpiskie> hello andylockran
<matt_symes> o andylockran
<matt_symes> o/
<matt_symes> forestpiskie: do they use Linux in school now ?
<forestpiskie> not here - but she's used to doing things not the ms way
<forestpiskie> so they asked lol
<forestpiskie> I wish they did
<matt_symes> Must have confused them no end. Take in a Live USB stick to show them ?
<forestpiskie> I think the IT 'teacher' has some idea - but I've been there for a few days before when I was trying to get into teaching - not very open at all :(
<daftykins> "what is zeez magical thing, it's a picture that has no start button!"
<forestpiskie> lol
<matt_symes> ha ha ha
<daftykins> i'm quite jealous of younger generations now, with the information they have access to
<matt_symes> who need a ?start? button anyway. I want to !do! not ?start?
<daftykins> when i was ridiculously keen to learn you were at the mercy of others onlines' patience
<daftykins> and also OSs were harder to mess with pre-virtualisation and also lack of shared net connections to be able to experiment easier
<forestpiskie> daftykins: when I was at school we still learnt Lsd and proper measurements
<daftykins> interesting school giving out LSD :D
<forestpiskie>  I add that when I left we weren't ...
<matt_symes> daftykins: so am i especially in schools. It was a couple of BBC model Bs when i was in school
<daftykins> =]
<forestpiskie> daftykins: special school ... :)
<matt_symes> forestpiskie 60s child :)
<forestpiskie> yea - just :)
<forestpiskie> between a rock and a hard place - learnt proper measurements - but still had slide rules and log tables when exams came
<forestpiskie> so I did my 60s at stonehenge in the late70s/early 80s
<matt_symes> nice place for it.
<forestpiskie> it was :)
<forestpiskie> or at least to start with :p
<daftykins> right i'm giving up on Friday and committing to Saturday, g'night all \o
<forestpiskie> night
<matt_symes> sounds like a plan. Good night \o/
<forestpiskie> night matt_symes
<andylockran> night all
<matt_symes> good night peeps
<forestpiskie> o/
<ali1234> my first shared internet connection had a 386 as router and ran over 2BaseT/coax
<ali1234> all parts bought at computer fair for under Â£50
<directhex> 10base2.
<ali1234> yeah that's the one
<ali1234> thin ethernet
<directhex> i loved that stuff
<ali1234> being able to plug in an extra machine without dropping a cable was handy
<ali1234> not so handy for the network admin trying to find the rogue machines though
<ali1234> my first 4 port 10base-t hub cost more than my entire network up to that point
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone tell me if theres a 64 bit ubuntu. ive got ubuntu on my machine but its only got the 32 bit on here
<forestpiskie> there is jonsaint
<forestpiskie> you'd have to reinstall to get it though
<jonsaint> where can i grait?
<jonsaint> yeah i know, where can i get it?
<forestpiskie> current version?
<jonsaint> yes.
<forestpiskie> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
<jonsaint> when the next version is released next month, will that also be upgraded as well?
<forestpiskie> just change the 32 bit to 64 bit
<forestpiskie> it will ask if you want to upgrade to it yes
<jonsaint> superb. many thanks
<forestpiskie> welcome
<christel> good morning lovelies
<AlanBell> morning all
<jussi> Morning christel and AlanBell
<jussi> ALthough I wouldnt class myself in the "lovelies" group :P
<christel> aww of course you are!
<christel> another sunny day today :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Myrtti> meh
 * christel tickles Myrtti 
<Myrtti> Finnish spring. snow on the ground - and it's raining like before the great flood.
<Myrtti> ;___;
<hank3three3chat> hi, can somebody tell me where I can download the up to date version of Pangolin
<forestpiskie> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<hank3three3chat> thank you
<forestpiskie> I'd be more inclined to do the beta plus updates - no guarantee the daily will do anything :)
<hank3three3chat> ok, thanks for the advice, will take a look at that nowâ¦..
<forestpiskie> :)
<ali1234> bugs.maemo.org finally gave up the ghost and marked every bug "WONTFIX"
<Myrtti> lol
<Myrtti> so ends an era
<AlanBell> hank3three3chat: I would go for the daily, saves a few hundred MB of updates
<forestpiskie> I think he probably did
<forestpiskie> I just updated my lappy - been sitting in the kitchen unloved - it was lots of updates ...
<StevenR> urrgh. How do I reboot the USB stack? lost keyboard and mouse again
<StevenR> overnight something happened to the DVB hardware and it appears to have killed all USB functionality
 * StevenR wishes he knew what the box tried to do just before it failed like this
<christel> AlanBell: that riverside place apparently is down the road just to the left (before if coming from my side of town, oh wait.. it's a one way street? so before anyhow i guess) the leisure center
<christel> centre*
<Myrtti> AlanBell: mind a pm?
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> christel: yeah, we went there, didn't find it
<AlanBell> lots of industrial units
<christel> aha
<AlanBell> we want posh modern offices to fit our up and coming dynamic hi tech startup image
<AlanBell> or to give us a high tech startup image :)
<Apacheuk> morning all, anyone having issues updating 12.04 this morning?
<forestpiskie> not here
<Apacheuk> ah... wait there, seems I might have spoken too soon... seems to be working now
<forestpiskie> :)
<forestpiskie> pigeon on the wire perhaps :D
<Apacheuk> maybe, did find the broadband turned off this morning... mother-in-law had turn it off to "save the internet" :)
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/aprilfools/cleaning.asp
<StevenR> Apacheuk: you mean you don't turn it off? You realise that you're wasting electrons by not doing so?
<Apacheuk> MartijnVdS, thats funny... I sending that to our helpdesk now
<Apacheuk> haven't updated in a while, theres alot :)
<hank3three3chat> I have a wacom pen and touch late, and I was wondering, does it work on 11.10? If so where are the instructions? Or is it out of the box?
<hank3three3chat> anybody know?
<AlanBell> plug it in and let us know what happens
<Myrtti> AFAIK they've worked out of the box for several years, but YMMV
<hank3three3chat> nothing happens, the blue light on the slate comes on but the pen doesn't work, and I just found the wacom icon in the dash, and opened that and it doesn't recognise its connected
<hank3three3chat> it works on my mac
<hank3three3chat> is there anything I can do to get it working?
<hank3three3chat> the model is CTH-470
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<directhex> time to DIY!
<MartijnVdS> DIY!
<hank3three3chat> oh well, thanks any way, will just have to use it on my mac
<Myrtti> hank3three3chat: http://askubuntu.com/questions/88028/wacom-bamboo-capture-cth-470-pen-and-touch-not-working <-- seen this?
<Myrtti> om nom, tea
<directhex> so who knows how to take a radiator off the wall?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Make sure the system is empty first
<MartijnVdS> directhex: then.. use some kind of wrench on the nuts connecting it to the system?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: then just lift it off its holders?
<directhex> yeah... sounds like a 2-man job :/
<directhex> i'm off to town to cach a cheque, buy a lunch, and buy some wrenches
<directhex> and let the sugar soap on this door dry out
<popey> Morning all
<forestpiskie> hi popey
<directhex> urgh i'm bunged up. might have the plague
<hank3three3chat> Myrtti: you are awesome it works, thankyou
<hank3three3chat> another question, can you add any apps for this like you can on mac, or is it just use the way it is?
<Myrtti> hank3three3chat: depends on what you mean with "like you can on mac"
<Myrtti> hank3three3chat: the preferred way to add apps is through the Software Center
<ali1234> it is on mac too
<ali1234> xcept they call it Apple Store or something
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> latest updates have strange behaviour :/
<czajkowski> moving mouse over icons in the dash
<czajkowski> causes them to flicker
<MartijnVdS> OK so it's not me
<MartijnVdS> for me, the entire screen flickers
<MartijnVdS> when things update
<hank3three3chat> ok, just watched a video, and the guy used my paint, and you got all the t=stuff on that that you need, going to play with it now
<hank3three3chat> Myrtti: well on mac, its got all these apps you can download, but having just seen the video on my paint with wacom, don't need anything else, its all in that program
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: the tabs on chrome flicker when I add a new one or go to a different tab
<czajkowski> most epically annoying
<czajkowski> and not my terminal is fflickering when I type at times and hit enter
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: what about clicking the menus/indicators?
<Myrtti> hank3three3chat: gimp might be closest to what you are looking for - but I'm not sure what you're trying to do
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: does that flicker as well?
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: yup
<czajkowski> flicker tastic which means working this morning is rather painful
<czajkowski> :/
<MartijnVdS> :|
 * MartijnVdS checks the launchpads
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/963093
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 963093 in unity (Ubuntu Precise) "Unity 5.8: Flickering and corruption on Unity UI elements" [Critical,Confirmed]
<hank3three3chat> Myrtti: not much at the moment, need to get used to the slate and how it works, I have gimp installed, but will have a look at my paint to start, to get used to itâ¦â¦
<hank3three3chat> just rte ally glad it works in Ubuntu
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: oh thanks
<czajkowski> hmm ran unity --reset
<czajkowski> not sure resetting it worked
<czajkowski> shall reboot
<MartijnVdS> now all customization is gone
<czajkowski> brb
<czajkowski> hmm when did the dasher get a wine background
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: wine background?
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: http://twitpic.com/90luiw/full
<czajkowski> see along side the side
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I think it adapts to the dominant colour in your background image
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: or it's supposed to, anyway
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you can blame gord if it doesn't.
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Cute pic though :)
<czajkowski> where the hell is it getting wine from
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: cheers, me and the find angry birds for my desktop
<czajkowski> or cows
<czajkowski> it alternates
<czajkowski> I realise that sounds strange but it's not :)
<MartijnVdS> I have this one atm: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/photostream
<ali1234> the laucnher colour automatically changes to "match" your wallpaper
<ali1234> which normally means turning bright pink or blue
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/3260817864/ ?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: also.. do the birds need to be angry? :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5767921455/in/photostream + http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5828812586/in/photostream
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: more like http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/maymidnights/angry-birds1.jpg
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: or http://www.nothingsnormal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Angry-Birds-003.jpg
<ali1234> i think that might be photoshopped
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: the second one is scary
<directhex> door coat 1 done!
<directhex> coat 2 can be done in... at 7am!
<MartijnVdS> you have slow-drying paint? :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS: wood paints take a long time to dry
<directhex> touch dry 8 hours, recoat dry in 16
<quackers> it's as good an excuse as any :-)
<directhex> walls are blocking on someone being around to help de-wall the radiator
<ali1234> does OS X include blu-ray authoring software?
<czajkowski> say hello to my pretty new desktop http://twitpic.com/90m7f7/full
<quackers> that's pretty....................not!
<quackers> hello anyway
<OmNomDePlume> ali1234: no.
<OmNomDePlume> But why are you asking here?
<OmNomDePlume> OSX can't even play back BD's AFAIK.
<OmNomDePlume> Yup, you need third-party software.
<dwatkins_> You can't get a Mac with a built-in blu-ray drive.
<OmNomDePlume> dwatkins: unless you're the Woz.
<popey> ali1234: don't think so
<popey> ali1234: given no macs come with blueray drives
<ali1234> OmNomDePlume: isn't this the mac channel on freenode?
<popey> âº
<OmNomDePlume> ali1234: yes, this channel - #ubuntu-uk - is the Mac channel on freenode.
<dwatkins> o.O
<Myrtti> what Unity needs is a Goodreads-lens
<Myrtti> not that I use lenses that much
<Myrtti> but that would be nice
<OmNomDePlume> What Unity needs is to be sent to hell.
<popey> trololololololo
<Myrtti> oo, constructive criticism, just what I like.
<popey> need a unicode trollface
<Myrtti> plz moar.
<ali1234> yes i was just thinking that the other day
<Myrtti> popey: ð­
<OmNomDePlume> lmao
<Myrtti> would a mouse do?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Submit a proposal to the Unicode people
<popey> question mark in a diamond
<ali1234> works for me
<Myrtti> popey: screen or tmux?
<OmNomDePlume> I actually hope Ubuntu keeps Unity.
<popey> ubuntu font, screen
<popey> OmNomDePlume: it will
<Myrtti> popey: tmux and shows fine.
<MartijnVdS> screen doesn't understand unicode 6
<popey> there is no other option
<Myrtti> with monospace font
<OmNomDePlume> Because then it'll continue to lose market share to Mint.
<popey> hahaha yeah, right
<MartijnVdS> it corrupts even in utf8 mode
<Myrtti> ðµ  monkey?
<OmNomDePlume> And eventually go the way of Linspire.
<ali1234> mint? you;ve got to be kidding me
<popey> at least ubuntu is somewhat consistent in the choice of desktop âº
<OmNomDePlume> Yeah, you know, that Ubuntu derivative which makes things usable.
<popey> what desktop will mint have in 3 years time
<popey> ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: his ;)
<ali1234> mint won't have any desktop without ubuntu to provide the whole of the rest of the OS
<popey> mate? cinnamon? gnome shell?
<OmNomDePlume> lol you think the average user cares if it's KDE or Gnome?
<popey> thats not the question I asked, no.
<popey> I'm pointing out the utter inconsistency of the mint UI
<popey> and the fact that they chop and change around at the whim of one guy
<Myrtti> Ux1F479 looks approximately like a troll
<popey> (yes, I am aware of the irony of me saying that)
<ali1234> popey: now that is truly ironic
<ali1234> oh you beat me to it
<OmNomDePlume> Yes.
<popey> âº
<OmNomDePlume> Yes..
<OmNomDePlume> The Archbishop Desmond Shuttleworth.
<Myrtti> "JAPANESE OGRE
<Myrtti> "
<Myrtti> "JAPANESE GOBLIN
<OmNomDePlume> I bet Shuttleworth likes anime.
<Myrtti> that has a bit too long nose
<ali1234> Myrtti: we want trollface not an actual troll
<forestpiskie> thanks Myrtti - that got picked up in my alerts lol
<ali1234> problem?
<popey> My point was that there are hundreds of people working for canonical, and hundreds more in the wider community. Mint has what? 10 developers, 1 or 2 full time?
<Myrtti> http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F300.pdf <-- for reference
<Myrtti> forestpiskie: which did?
<forestpiskie> goblin :)
<popey> I fail to see how mint can make a significant dent in any market other than the "unity haters" one.
<ali1234> exactly my point too. mint is
<dwatkins> If Mint is based on Ubuntu, does that not mean it's dependant on Ubuntu's success?
<ali1234> too small to really make a difference
<directhex> cinnamon might get wider traction, or at least influence gnome devs to un-suck shell
<popey> to some degree dwatkins
<ali1234> mint can switch to debian, or something else, if ubuntu disappears
<popey> it did make me chuckle when the mint guys said they would change all references to Ubuntu when they find them (like affiliate codes)
<popey> yet they still use our bandwidth for the repositories
<dwatkins> That sounds a bit cheeky.
<ali1234> but it will never be top tier
<ali1234> how can they use ubuntu repositories if they modify the packages?
<popey> theirs are on top of the ubuntu ones
<directhex> ali1234: version bumping.
<directhex> 1.0-1ubuntu1+mint1 > 1.0-1ubuntu1
<popey> they also have this odd system of updates which recommends you don't install security updates until they have been vetted
<popey> which seems insecure by design
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but that's always the way
<ali1234> when you start messing heavily with an OS but also try to remain compatible
<popey> sure
<ali1234> it never turns out well
<directhex> popey: it means "give us long enough to make 1.0-1ubuntu1.1+mint1, otherwise ubuntu 1.0-1ubuntu1.1 will replace 1.0-1ubuntu1+mint1"
<popey> yup
<dwatkins> so essentially Mint is Ubuntu with a different logo spray-painted on top and has delayed security updates?
<popey> they have some apps too
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> the updates aren't delayed
<popey> iirc they have a different update manager and a backup tool
<dwatkins> ah ok
<directhex> dwatkins: and stuff like cinnamon
<popey> ali1234: not delayed, they just dont recommend them
<ali1234> exactly
 * dwatkins looks cinnamon up
<sagaci> cinnamon challenge
<popey> http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
<dwatkins> tar
<popey> observe how it doesn't actually say wtf cinnamon even _is_ on the homepage
<ali1234> cinnamon is the plugin for shell right?
<popey> ^^ see
<ali1234> it's nowhere near as good as gnome fallback mode
<popey> 719 packages can be updated.
<popey> oops
<popey> mums machine
 * popey hugs ssh
<directhex> ali1234: fallback is going away
<ali1234> it's hobbled by the fact that it uses gnome-shell as a base
<dwatkins> 'Cinnamon applets are easy to write' apparently, but yes, I still don't know what it is
<ali1234> which means no multimonitor support and no ability to configure panels
<popey> directhex: they're switching to software rendering aren't they?
<directhex> ali1234: llvmpipe means shell can run without a proper gpu
<Myrtti> :-| I'm sorry I mentioned Unity
<popey> Fedora 18 is shipping with it iirc?
<popey> hah
<ali1234> fallback isn't going away actually. gnome-panel has been ported to gtk3. you can't put that cat back in the bag now
<directhex> sure, and MATE will completely keep gnome 2 alive too
<ali1234> yeah but there's no longer any reason to do so
<popey> there is, for a minority of nerds who hate change
<ali1234> because gnome-panel on gtk3 is identical to gnome2 in every way except the choice of themes (because old themes have to be ported)
<popey> lets bring back CDE on solaris
<directhex> CDE is free software now
<popey> i thought there were omissions ali1234 ?
<directhex> it was released a week or two ago
<popey> ahh, thats why it's on my brain
<popey> panel applets all work okay?
<ali1234> i'm sure there's a minority that hates change but the majority dislike unity and gnome-shell because they are just bad
<popey> heh
<ali1234> yes allthe old panel applets are there
<popey> potato/potato
<forestpiskie> popey: on another thing alltogether - someone in ubuntuforums wants to know how to report a daily iso test result - is there somewhere simple I can point him that you know of?
<Laney> at least gnome-panel works with other window managers
<popey> why must all linux videos have metal on them ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkDPIsddK8
<ali1234> at this point it would only take porting the old human theme and you could have identical desktop to 10.04, on 12.04
<ali1234> oh, also the settings menu moved
<ali1234> you only get applications and places now
<ali1234> which kind of sucks
<popey> also odd wallpaper choice from thet youtuber
<dwatkins> popey: the guy's background scares me more than his choice of music
 * dwatkins didn't think IRC channel names were case-sensitive
<ali1234> popey: O_o
<dwatkins> ...and then there's the choice of game: "urbanterror"
<czajkowski> popey: cause it's clearly cool! don'tcha know!
<Myrtti> popey: good thing that the view count doesn't go up if you don't watch more than 50% of the video
<czajkowski> popey: I suspect the majority are made by Americans as well
<ali1234> is he using KDE?
<ali1234> that's even worse IMO
<Myrtti> I'd hate to think that he got one unsuspecting view more from me just because I had to click the link.
<OmNomDePlume> dwatkins: they aren't.
<czajkowski> Myrtti: Pendulum any idea on a talk title to give to http://www.flossie.org/
<czajkowski> going to be talking about the Ubuntu community, how I go involved and how it lead to a job in Canonical doing stuff I love
<czajkowski> and the kinda enviroment that it is
<dwatkins> sounds like fun
<czajkowski> dwatkins: do you work on banshee?
<dwatkins> czajkowski: no, I'm not a developer I'm afraid
 * dwatkins works in support
<dwatkins> I wonder if I can make an RSS feed of my +1s on google plus
<popey> hmm, 340 quid for a nokia n9
<Myrtti> http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/26048/dccft/Nokia-N9-alypuhelin-64GB-musta
<Myrtti> 16 or 64GB one?
<popey> yeah, 64GB seems to go for ~340 on ebay
<popey> http://www.securitronlinux.com/bejiitaswrath/ubuntu-linux-used-in-mcdonalds-restaurants/
<ali1234> "The Gnome 2 desktop was kept until the 11.04 release and then the  infamous Unity desktop took over, and dealt the Ubuntu distribution a  blow it might never recover from."
<ali1234> nice
<Myrtti> that blog post is almost interesting
<ali1234> i should put more trollposts on my website
<ali1234> i might get more adsense clicks that way
<popey> âº
<popey> works for ZDNet
<ali1234> also very next sentence "KDE is a nice alternative to Unity" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<popey> is there a "... if you like stabbing yourself with a thousand tiny knives.."
<ali1234> i tried that plasma active build on the ideapad. it is totally awful
<ali1234> the touchpad works
<popey> ideapad? is that the lenovo thing?
<ali1234> but you can't click on half of the UI elements with it for no obvious reason
<ali1234> yeah it's a hybrid tablet
<ali1234> transformer
<ali1234> i can't remember what they are called
<popey> ahh
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> anyway point being it has a touchscreen which is supported, just that plasma active is horribly broken
<ali1234> it's also really hilariously confusing and difficult to use
<ali1234> it has that kind of "drag down" menu like on android
<ali1234> but then to run applications you have to drag it down TWICE
<ali1234> and there is no visual hint for this at all
<ali1234> and no other way to run apps ... at all
<ali1234> it's also extremely slow
<ali1234> like when you figure out to drag down twice, there is a search box
<ali1234> you type the first letter of your search, wait 15 seconds for it to update, type second letter, wait 5 seconds, type third letter and now it updates instantly... because now there's only 3 hits
<ali1234> i really hate search boxes that work that way
<ali1234> don't search when i've only typed "s"
<ali1234> it makes no sense and totally destroys any chance of interactivity
<ali1234> also it took well ovet ten minutes to boot
<ali1234> there were two separate points where i thought it had crashed because it took so long
<dwatkins> hahaha - "place your mouse on top of an analogue alarm clock to stop the screensaver ever kicking in"
<ali1234> what?
<ali1234> but i dn't have an analogue alarm clock
<ali1234> will a digital one work?
<dwatkins> http://lifehacker.com/5896093/use-an-analog-alarm-clock-to-disable-forced-screensavers
<ali1234> wait that's actually GENIUS
<ali1234> does the mouse pointer go around in a circle?
<dwatkins> hehe, doubt it
<dwatkins> it probably just moves a bit to the side once a minute
<ali1234> someone should send that link to totem developers
<ali1234> they fixed that alt thing yet?
<dwatkins> bug 216939 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 216939 in xine-lib (Ubuntu) "totem causes alt key press in openoffice every 30 seconds" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216939
<dwatkins> If they'd used 'shift' (like I do to come out of screensavers) I wonder if it might have taken longer to be reported.
<penguin42> wow, that's a bizarre bug
<dwatkins> "Looks like the culprit is gnome-screensaver-command"
<ali1234> er, well that bug is back
<ali1234> because it affects hud now
<ali1234> because tapping alt opens it
<dwatkins> initiating a keypress is a silly way to stop the screensaver, can't it just send a command to disable the screensaver for 10 minutes every 10 minutes?
<dwatkins> (or every 9m59s)
<ali1234> bug 921276
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921276 in Totem "HUD appears every 30 seconds without any interaction (playing a video in totem in particular)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921276
<ali1234> yes, it's very silly, yes they could do it properly
<penguin42> I guess they expect it to work with any screensaver, not just gnome
<ali1234> that's why we have XDG
<dwatkins> there's no standard way to send some kind of system call to temporarily disable whatever screensaver is enabled?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> see man xdg-screensaver
<dwatkins> thanks ali1234
<penguin42> ali1234: Nice, I wonder - does xdg cleanup if the window disappears - e.g. if the app crashes/is closed without reenabling screensaver
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> i think it should according to phrasing of the manual page
<dwatkins> That was why I suggested sending a signal periodically to temporarily disable the screensaver.
<directhex> moo.
<dwatkins> 'The window must remain in existance for the duration of the suspension.
<dwatkins> '
<popey> Pimm's O'Clock!
<SuperEngineer> Beer o'clock - popey earns more than me I guess ;)
<SuperEngineer> [I say "earns"but, you know, many words have several meanings :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  24th March 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=135
<popey> this is a bottle of pimm's that's been on the shelf for months âº
<popey> I only bought some lemonade
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Myrtti> no proper ginger ale or fresh mint so no pimm's for me :-<
<popey> yummy
<directhex> i'm drinking archers & lemonade lately
<SuperEngineer> Facebook get's my "stupid idiots of the month award" http://tinyurl.com/6mjwg92 [http://preview.tinyurl.com/6mjwg92]
<dwatkins> book book book book book book
<directhex> dwatkins is now a chicken?
<SuperEngineer> now that *would * be a good compaign - everyone shouting "book" at facebook!
<dwatkins> directhex: I was saying 'book' a lot because of that article about Facebook
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: indeed, it's silly what they're trying to do
<SuperEngineer> book book book book book - & no - I'm not a chicken either
<dwatkins> I guess they want to stop people making sites like 'farcebook' or something that sounds vaguely similar.
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: they just turned themselves into farcebook by attempting it
<brobostigon> or like microshaft, and similer.
<SuperEngineer> hope they don'y copywright face - I've had mine longer they they've had their name!
<SuperEngineer> I'll sue ;)
<brobostigon> they cant really copyright a bodypart.
<SuperEngineer> but they copywrighted the human genome -why not - they're daft enough
 * SuperEngineer starts destroying the paper based publications he paper-based-publications shops in case fb get wind of them!
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/x0Nrk.jpg
<SuperEngineer> *bought from
<robinmdh> I installed the 12.04 beta 1 image to see if the ext4 > 16TB issue was solved(as mentioned here(need the 3.2.X kernel etc) http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/e2fsprogs-release.html#1.42) but i can't get it working, anyone know why/how ?
 * SuperEngineer thinks - copywright the word carpet - hmmm - 1 good get rich quick plan
 * SuperEngineer laughs at thought of U-UK IRC listeners rushing to copywright office with "carpet" written on a piece of &arp*t
<SuperEngineer> [can't mention the word - someone's copyrighting it as I speak....]
<penguin42> it's UPS that owns a particular brown
<SuperEngineer> ...yeah, they can have that one - let's paint all our vehicles so they resemble the colour of faeces.. a good reminder to our customers
<ali1234> is that really the official flag of mars?
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mars apparently it actually is
<ali1234> or at least as official as you're going to get anyway
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: please stop using the word Mars - I've copywrighted it ;)
<ali1234> no.
<SuperEngineer> damn
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you have not.
<ali1234> what about mars bars?
<SuperEngineer> double damn
<SuperEngineer> foiled again
<penguin42> heck USB thumb drives are coming down; play.com has got 32GB for about Â£15
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_Mars_bar is that really worthy of it;s own article? really?
<ali1234> i tried one once, it was disgusting
<ali1234> and i love fried food
<SuperEngineer> +1 to tried & disgusting - got as far as 2 bites before retching
<ali1234> yeah really
<ali1234> i don't think anyone has ever purchased more than one
<ali1234> it might be alright if the batter didn't taste like fish i guess
<popey> I had a lovely haggis pudding supper in aberdeen once
<popey> _once_
<popey> was heart-attack inducing levels of fat
<popey> tasty âº
<SuperEngineer> is that fried haggis in batter with chips by any chance?
<ali1234> http://23x.net/5/what-is-a-munchy-box.html
<ali1234> not sure if for real
<SuperEngineer> just looked -  oh no! surely not!
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchy_box it must be real it's on wikipedia
<popey> that looks awesome
<popey> wikipedia having issues here
<SuperEngineer> ...but, then again, yum yum
<popey> or chrome
<ali1234> i just went to the shop to buy a BD-RE disc and it's really hot out
<ali1234> it's like summer
<ali1234> last week it snowed
<ali1234> makes no sense
<popey> yeah
<popey> pimm's here, and bbq about to be lit
<SuperEngineer> call the fire brigade before lighting... much safer
<popey> âº
<popey> i once had the police turn up because i was burning some crap in the garden
<popey> lotsa smoke
<Nafallo> that's just stupid
<Nafallo> they should have sent the fire brigade
<Nafallo> also, morning
<ali1234> http://www.imgburn.com/ claims to work in wine and can create udf 2.5 filesystems
<ali1234> so i just need something that can make menus?
<popey> hmm, cant get to wikipedia at all
<penguin42> bizarre; Amazon has recommend Twelve Monkeys to me - which is great; but it says it did it because I said I own Pulp Fiction, 2010 and I rated 2001
<SuperEngineer> popey: +1 www.wikipedia.org/ & en.wikipedia.org/ both DOA
<Nafallo> meh
<Nafallo> that would be why I can't reach them
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Fine here
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: so you're the reason why the rest of us can't get there?
<Nafallo> hmm. their loadbalancer pings...
<Nafallo> mtr
 * penguin42 whistles innocently
<Nafallo> connected to, but doesn't seem to load a lot.
<Nafallo> I was just going to read about what libre.fm is...
<SuperEngineer> [probably overloaded by people deleting their definitions of "Facebook" and replacing them with the word "idiots"
<ali1234> penguin42: i don't understand why you think that amazon recommendation is odd?
<popey> Nafallo: last.fm for freetards âº
<Nafallo> popey: is that all? they do all the same things or?
<popey> thats the goal
<popey> been around for years, started by Matt Lee
<Nafallo> I take that as a no
<popey> âº
<Nafallo> what parts are i place?
 * popey shrugs
<Nafallo> I noticed it because I changed scrobbler on my phone, so that part is there :-P
<ali1234> penguin42: twelve monkeys and 2001 are both "weird" sci-fi (for want of a better term) movies
<ali1234> and pulp fiction and twelve monkeys both use non-linear story telling
<ali1234> so it makes sense to me
<penguin42> 2001 isn't that weird!
<gord> its more along the lines of other people who like 2001 and pulp fiction also like twelve monkies
<ali1234> penguin42: yeah except for the first hour and the last 45 minutes
<ali1234> gord: sure, it's not intelligent. but it does make sense too
 * SuperEngineer votes get-iplayer best linux tool - my Formula 1 Grand Prix rescuer!
<gord> i find amazon recommendations pretty good :) its let me know about a few things i wouldn't of picked up on otherwise but have found very enjoyable
<gord> and its fun to spend a few minutes a week pruning its recommendations on the phone -_-
<ali1234> penguin42: i'd imagine it recommending memento and inception for you also based on what you've told us so far :)
<penguin42> ali1234: OK, OK, the chimp bit is weird and the beyond infinity bit as well....
<penguin42> ali1234: Ouch! It did recommend memento, but I didn't know what that was - haven't ordered it - what is it ?
<ali1234> the blue danube docking scene is pretty tripped out (and awesome) too
<penguin42> oh the blue danube scene is *nice* not weird
<ali1234> memento is a movie about a guy who has no long term memory
<ali1234> it's by the same guy that did inception
<gord> memento is good, i'd recommend it
<penguin42> ali1234: Thing is I saw Inception at the cinema and only kind of liked it
<ali1234> and it uses non linear story telling
<ali1234> i liked inception
<ali1234> not because it was complicated (it wasn't)
<nothingspecial> o/ quackers
<quackers> o/ people :-)
<ali1234> memento *is* complicated though
<penguin42> ali1234: I think I got confused by the reason for the 2nd to last layer
<ali1234> penguin42: i don't think you;re really supposed to analyse it
<ali1234> i mean if you do most of it makes no sense
<ali1234> like why do they need that machine thing in any of the inner layers? it's not real
<gord> i still like paprika more than inception, but no one i know has ever seen that :(
<penguin42> what's that?
<ali1234> never heard of it. will check it out
<gord> its similar, came out prior
<ali1234> also, for the ultimate in impossible to understand sci-fi, you should watch primer. you literally need a diagram to understand it
<gord> well, has similar themes
<popey> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0851578/
<popey> ?
 * popey adds both to his 'list'
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I keep intending to watch that
<ali1234> you can't watch it once :)
 * popey welcomes suggestions for other 'related' films
<ali1234> what i really love about inception is that it has the feel of a william gibson setting. it could easily be set in the same universe as neuromancer etc
<popey> ali1234 / gord you can be my amazon 'you may also like' bots
<ali1234> hmm, i dunno, how much films have you seen?
<popey> well, seen inception, like films with that or time travel bents
<ali1234> a scanner darkly was pretty good
<gord> the girl who leapt through time is pretty good, i enjoyed it quite a bit
<ali1234> perfect role for keanu
<ali1234> robert downey jr is really good in that one too
<ali1234> the rotoscoping gets a bit annoying in places though
<tugrik> afternoon :)  If I want to run a box using full memory and loading the CPU, to test the hardware - kind of memtest but more so, what could I run?
<gord> robert downey jr is enjoyable in almost all roles ;)
<gord> that reminds me, must get more Nic Cage movies
<ali1234> i often find him annoying - but again he's *supposed* to be annoying in this movie so it works
<popey> oh yes, i liked a scanner darkly
<ali1234> like tom hanks in ... that one movie where he plays a jerk
<ali1234> since i can't stand him, that's his only movie that i like
<popey> tugrik: phoronix test suite âº
<ali1234> phoronix i found really difficult to actually get it to run the tests :(
<ali1234> if you don't want to do CPU and memory at the same time, i recommend cpuburn and memtest
<ali1234> i think there's a memory tester that runs inside linux too, so you could do that, can't remember what it's called though
<penguin42> gord: Actually, I tend to dislike Nick Cage in most things
<gord> penguin42, you are watching the wrong nic cage movies then ;) like 2/3rds are pretty awful - but that last third are glorious just because of him
<tugrik> thanks ali1234
<czajkowski> in google docs how does one merge cells
<czajkowski> as it's clearly escaping me
<ali1234> hmm i tried that once
<ali1234> well, either i know how to do it, or it isn't possible
<czajkowski> no it is
<czajkowski> I can see it done in another doc
<ali1234> yeah i just need to remember how
<popey> right click
<penguin42> gord: Only one I've seen I really liked was Con Air
<popey> highlight the two cells, right click context menu has the option to merge
<ali1234> not here it doesn't
 * popey checks
<ali1234> edit -> merge cells
<popey> odd
<czajkowski> huzza
<czajkowski> FINALLY!
<czajkowski> goes back
<ali1234> penguin42: what about the rock with sean connery? that's a good movie
<czajkowski> cheers
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm yeh
<ali1234> raising arizona is also good
<czajkowski> expendibles!
<tugrik> thanks as well popey btw, appreciated
<SuperEngineer> thought I bumped into the WC today - but no  - just some imposter Doo-glass with his wife Deer -Dree! damn!
 * SuperEngineer misses the WC
<DJones> yay. new tablet
<SuperEngineer> DJones: as the doctor says... keep taking the tablets
<DJones> heh
<SuperEngineer> [you -didn't- "take", it I hope
<DJones> nah, couldn't swallow it
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you're not supposed to.. they're suppositories
<DJones> ouch, that'll bring tears to my eyes
<daubers> Evening
<jacobw> evening
<daubers> sometimes I forget that google groups is more than a mailing list :)
<jacobw> i don't use google groups for anything right now
<daubers> The local hackspace uses it quite a lot
 * daubers writes blog while software installs
<christel> oh so quiet!
 * czajkowski jumps on christel *HUGS*
<christel> hello princess!
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> hello darling
<christel> how art thou
<mgdm> evening al
<mgdm> all, even
<christel> hullu mgdm
<czajkowski> christel: not bad got  some jason stratham on :)
<czajkowski> christel: how was the little on and rugby today?
<czajkowski> *one
<ali1234> AlanBell: i think the offset notifications on second monitor has been fixed!
<ali1234> rebooting for updates...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but not all unity graphics flicker
<ali1234> well notifications aren't part of unity
<MartijnVdS> sure, but if you've _also_ upgraded Unity, you're going to have a bad time
<ali1234> i'm having a bad time anyway, actually
<ali1234> all window decorations disappeared before i updated
<ali1234> if they flicker they'll at least be there half the time, that's an improvement right now
<ali1234> i don't see any flickering
<ali1234> and notifications are fixed
<ali1234> but they are blue like the launcher
<ali1234> except the launcher isn't blue cos i set the setting to change the colour
<ali1234> is there a dash lens for launchpad?
<ali1234> yes, there is
<ali1234> but it isn't packaged
<ali1234> seems not ready for prime time
<ali1234> AlanBell: doh, there's a bug older than both of ours with active discussion: https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/716458
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 716458 in Notify OSD "notify-osd, Multimonitor - notify-osd in invisible area of dual screen setup" [High,In progress]
<ali1234> ok, i successfully built a udf 2.6 iso using imgburn in wine
<ali1234> so i just need some software to make blu-ray menus now. any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> blu-ray menus? aren't those java stuff?
<ali1234> i don't know, and i don't really care :)
<ali1234> i just want to make chapters in a looooooooong video
<ali1234> and put a menu on the front
 * popey tickles Laney 
<threemob> can somebody help with installing midori, if I did it through Synaptic., it had a list as long as my arm to remove programs that I need and use.......
<threemob> is there a .deb file that can be used to install it
<AlanBell> !info midori
<lubotu3> midori (source: midori): fast, lightweight graphical web browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.0-2build0.1 (oneiric), package size 1093 kB, installed size 3736 kB
<AlanBell> threemob: just sudo apt-get install midori or grab it from the software centre
<threemob> yeh, get lots of  errors when I do that in both ways
<threemob> http://pastebin.com/cijEhzGQ
<threemob> get it from synaptic and it wants to delete things like brasero, and other programs I need
<AlanBell> what version of Ubuntu are you starting from?
<threemob> 11.10
<AlanBell> !info libwebkitgtk
<lubotu3> Package libwebkitgtk does not exist in oneiric
<AlanBell> hmm, it just installs in 12.04
<threemob> ah, that would explain it
<threemob> thank you
<AlanBell> well that doesn't explain it, the thing should just work in 11.10 too
<threemob> oh right
<threemob> how do I find the missing package
<AlanBell> !info libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
<lubotu3> libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 (source: webkit): Web content engine library for Gtk+. In component main, is optional. Version 1.4.3-0ubuntu4 (oneiric), package size 6888 kB, installed size 21824 kB (Only available for any all)
<AlanBell> !info libwebkitgtk-3.0-0
<lubotu3> libwebkitgtk-3.0-0 (source: webkit): Web content engine library for Gtk+. In component main, is optional. Version 1.4.3-0ubuntu4 (oneiric), package size 6885 kB, installed size 21820 kB (Only available for any all)
<DJones> AlanBell: I have that version installed
<threemob> ok so what does that mean, sorry. :(
<DJones> -1.0-0 (1.4.3)
<AlanBell> threemob: try sudo apt-get install libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
<threemob> ok
<AlanBell> I am expecting some kind of different error message
<threemob> one sec I'll give it a try
<threemob> http://pastebin.com/jbZtSWPM
<threemob> most odd
<AlanBell> gosh
<threemob> so how do I get around that
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get -f install
<threemob> will that install the whole of my 11.10 again
<threemob> just so I know
<AlanBell> no, that should just give another attempt at installing the not-quite installed midori package
<AlanBell> and anything else that is a bit broken
<threemob> http://pastebin.com/5bG8XqTm
<AlanBell> well that didn't do much did it
<threemob> hehe
<threemob> nope
<AlanBell> maybe try installing midori again
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install midori
<threemob> just did that, got the e already postedsame message as before that I hav
<threemob> sorry, start again, got the same message, as I have already posted
<threemob> http://pastebin.com/LA3GKaNv
<threemob> very strange
<DJones> AlanBell: I've just tun the install command (but cancelled it) http://pastebin.com/y3ZuVX58 Maybe that gives some info
<AlanBell> threemob: I am kind of out of ideas here
<threemob> oh wow, definitely missing something
<daftykins> do you have universe and multiverse enabled?
<AlanBell> maybe sudo apt-get --fix-missing install
<threemob> daftykins: what is universe and multiverse?
<daftykins> they're different package sources
<daftykins> if it's refusing to install that libwebgtk package, perhaps it's not got a source for it
<threemob> how do I enable both and where
<daftykins> i read once not long ago that that's usually the cause, that universe and multiverse aren't enabled
<daftykins> err not sure on such a new Ubuntu, i've not really used the 11.xx series
<daftykins> i'm also guessing so AlanBell may well slap my wrist in a moment :D
<threemob> It might be an idea to see what I have enabled anyway
<daftykins> usually there's an app called "software sources" somewhere under admin or system
<daftykins> or, you can just delve straight into /etc/apt/sources.list
<daftykins> and see what's commented out or included
<threemob> AlanBell tried that, and got this message http://pastebin.com/NFCeEVEN
<threemob> just looked and both are activated
<threemob> or enabled I should say
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> do you get a result of you "apt-cache search libwebgtk" ?
<daftykins> *if you
<threemob> nothing
<threemob> how do I correct broken packages, with the commands you already gave, as its no corrected
<daftykins> threemob: did you have to add a repository for midori?
<threemob> nothing when I enter apt-cache search libwebgtk
<threemob> I havent added a repository, how do I do that
<daftykins> oh it's not necessary, probably, i just wondered if you did. did you just run "sudo apt-get install midori" to begin with?
<threemob> yes and got the same message I started off with, in pastebin
<daftykins> yeah it's not going to go on until it's aware of where to find that libwebgtk package
<daftykins> i take it you're fully updated and upgraded? "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<threemob> http://pastebin.com/y3ZuVX58
<threemob> yes, but I can that again
<threemob> same error message I just showed you
<threemob> need to go to bed, back is killing me, thank you so much for your help
<threemob> might try again tomorrow, after some rest
<daftykins> wow it wants to get rid of a lot
<daftykins> no problemo, gl with it!
<threemob> I know, and if I deo it via synaptic, it wants to get rid of even more
<threemob> bye for now
<threemob> and thanks again
 * Laney wibbles at popey 
<Laney> man, my hands are /freeeeeeeeeeeeezing/
<Laney> long dark cycle back without gloves
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-25
<Jora> hi
<daftykins> <3
<daftykins> nn Jor Jor
<Jora> Goodnight daftykins
<ball> I feel a sizeable cup of tea coming on.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01f6qpq
<meet> help me choose- ubuntu or mint? i have ubuntu up and running and using it for quite a few days. through wubi ofcourse. But mint looks good. What should i do?
<MartijnVdS> do whatever you like.
<meet> i got a 10 year old desktop and i was planning to install ubuntu on it. it currently has winxp but works sluggish. will it help to quicken the pc?
<MartijnVdS> you might need to add some ram
<MartijnVdS> how much do you have atm?
<meet> martijnvds 512mb
<MartijnVdS> Yeah that'll work but it won't be fast. Try adding some to get to 1 or 2 GB (if that's possible)
<meet> i wanted to use the current specs only.
<meet> the processor is p4 about 1.6 Ghz
<MartijnVdS> that should be enough for a working system
<MartijnVdS> I have a machine with 768M that's quite fast, but if you start more than 2-3 programs it slows down to a crawl because of swapping
<meet> something like that :D Will lubuntu or xubuntu be helpful in this regard? cause i dont like unity and dont plan to use it. is xfce or those others lighter?
<MartijnVdS> it should be, but it's not as user-friendly
<meet> oh.. and how to run turboc compiler on ubuntu?
<meet> in my school i got that boring compiler for c and c++ programming. So at home also i wanted to use it. Unfortunately there does not seem an easy way
<MartijnVdS> there's gcc, g++
<MartijnVdS> if you install the "build-essential" package, it'll pull those in as a dependency, along with the basic C library headers etc.
<meet> ya i did that. but programming in linux and windows is proving completely different. Also i get some xinitthread() not used error when i run  some programs. So all in all its difficult.
<MartijnVdS> What kind of programs are you trying?
<MartijnVdS> Are you starting with "Hello world"? Do you have makefiles, etc.?
<MartijnVdS> The language is the same, but the libraries are mostly different :)
<meet> ya hello world worked all right. i did g++ hello.cpp and then ./a.out. No problems with that. But then for some graphics programs in which i am using the graphics.h header file i get that xinitthread errorss
<MartijnVdS> "graphics.h"?
<MartijnVdS> That must be part of some project
<MartijnVdS> You might want to look at GTK if you want to write GUI programs
<meet> we use the graphics.h header file in turboc. its inbuilt. so i set up the same header file by reading a blog post for that.
<meet> while compiling a program using graphics.h i do the following- g++  a.cpp -lgraph
<meet> but if multiple functions of the graphics header files are used than that errors crops up.
<popey> turboc?
<popey> isnt that somewhat retro these days?
<MartijnVdS> 'tis
<popey> ahh, india
<MartijnVdS> it's very 90s if I remember
<meet> martijnvds where can i find the answers?
<popey> meet: are youi running turboc for dos or windows?
<meet> i have not installed it currently. i am trying to use g++ and gcc after editing in gedit. but not able to do it effieciently.
<meet> at school i think its the dos turboc. a bluescreen and dos like feel. Anyway can i use it through wine or dosbox?
<meet> i want to be able to use the clrscr() or getch() fcuntions which i think are windows specific.
<meet> popey what do u suggest?
<popey> meet: you could install FreeDOS and install it under that
<popey> or a lightweight distro light lubuntu
<christel> morning
<AlanBell> http://www.floriskaayk.com/ aww, it was a fake
<popey> I'm amazed anyone thought it was real
<meet> how do connect winxp desktop to ubuntu laptop via network. sry for the vague question
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<sagaci>  /o\
<AlanBell> popey: the final video looked very wrong, but there was a lot of backstory created
<AlanBell> looking at the video again it seems even more wrong
<gord> cool idea of the day, laptop that lets you insert the really thin ubuntu mouse in the side for storage and easy access (c) gord
<moreati> gord: http://www.amazon.com/HP-Mogo-Bluetooth-X54-Presenter/dp/B004AMRT62/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1
<gord> like that! still (c) gord
<hank3three3chat> I am having problems with my username, if I stay on one computer its ok, but if I go to another computer and use the same username it won't let me log in and tells me the username is already taken, how can I get around that?
<directhex> hank3three3chat: for IRC? not trivially
<spych102> HUD for me is really slow, is it just me?
<directhex> hank3three3chat: you can only have one user per nickname connected to an IRC server. the workaround is to have that one connected user be a kind of irc proxy server - sometimes called a bouncer - then all your "real" clients connect to the bouncer rather than directly to irc
<directhex> e.g. i use bip. so i'm not connected to irc from my house - i'm connected to the work irc proxy server from my house, and i'm running bip on there which connects to networks like freenode
<brobostigon> spych102: i am in unity-2d 5.8 here, and aslong as my machine isnt loaded, it is pretty quick.
<directhex> which is why my whois shows pasanda.collabora.co.uk not hostfoobar.btinternet.com
<spych102> brobostigon, i might try it in 2d
<ali1234> unity2d is much faster than unity3d
<brobostigon> and also, doesnt load the graphics as much.
<spych102> i thought 3d was accelerated? misnomer?
<ali1234> it is
<ali1234> that's just a euphemism for "won't run at all without a 3d card"
<hank3three3chat> directhex: now you lost meâ¦â¦.I have three computers, each running IRC, depending on what I am doing, depends which computer I am on, but it won't let me swap computers even if I log out of one and log into anotherâ¦â¦so now I have two usernames, which I don't want, I have no idea what tip or what it does, bit over my headâ¦â¦.
<ali1234> hank3three3chat: /msg nickserv help ghost
<spych102> i have beta 1 installed which i don't think has HUD
<spych102> how do i upgrade?
<spych102> or is there a ppa to install?
<brobostigon> spych102: if you do a normal upgrade, you should get unity-*d 5.8, which has hud.
<hank3three3chat> ok, thanks for that
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
<spych102> brobostigon, thanks, i  think i did that already but there was a problem and it did a partial upgrade... maybe i should just reinstall?
<brobostigon> spych102: thats sound like there are package problems,  could you pastebin the whole output you get, please.
<spych102> brobostigon, unity 2d can't find my terminal
<brobostigon> spych102: alt + f2, gnome-terminal, press enter.
<spych102> brobostigon, got it, thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<spych102> but unity 2d seems to find my media files better :-D
<brobostigon> brb, need coffee, and lunch.
<czajkowski> ubuntu uk mailing list is rather noisy on the weekend
<czajkowski> noisy/busy/talkative
<mattt> that's funny, most mailing lists are usually busy during office hours :)
<spych102> brobostigon, 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 99 not upgraded is the output from my upgrade... and still no HUD...:-[
<brobostigon> spych102: i am not a good man to help with such package issues, i know very little about them. someone else will have to help. sorry.
<spych102> okay
<penguin42> spych102: is that from an apt-get upgrade ?
<spych102> yes from 12.04 beta 1
<penguin42> spych102: Tried an apt-get dist-upgrade to see if it will get rid of the 99 stragglers?
<spych102> doing it right now..
<spych102> penguin42, it seems to be working, i'll let you know when it's done
<czajkowski> popey: when you plug your iphone/ipad into your ubuntu machines does it charge normally ?
<spych102> penguin42, it's all upgraded now and HUD is working, thanks
<penguin42> spych102: No problem!
<spych102> new problem: unity does not find my programs, only media files
<spych102> lol, i searched for libreoffice in unity and it played a song with libre in the title
<Myrtti> ahhhahhahahahaha http://imgur.com/gallery/2owN5
<Myrtti> almost choked on a toast
<popey> czajkowski: yes
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<czajkowski> popey: I wondered as I came across this project https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/191588
<popey> ipad != iphone
<popey> ipad requires more current to make it charge
<popey> many computers don't deliver enough because the USB spec says they dont have to
<ali1234> how can that be overcome with software?
<popey> i have no idea
<ali1234> there must be something more to it
<popey> looks like some devices have configurable current delivery
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1504845
<penguin42> ali1234: The amount delivered by a port can be determined by the host I think; I know blackberrys didn't charge unless the host did something
<ali1234> usb devices can have multiple profiles
<penguin42> actually, I think it's whether the device asks for it
<ali1234> self powered vs host powered
<ali1234> it's up to the host to pick the profile... the device can't directly ask for anything, just give options
<ali1234> so i guess that's what is happening here
<ali1234> lsusb -vvv if you want to see all that stuff :)
<ali1234> if you plug in a ipad and run lsusb -vvv -d vendor:product | grep bNumConfigurations
<ali1234> you might see it has more than 1
<bigcalm_lappy> Good afternoon peeps :)
<quackers> o/ all
<bigcalm_lappy> What The Font is a good utility. Is there one for free fonts?
<ali1234> looking at the source, it doesn't work like that. it requires a special command sent to the ipad
<ali1234> bigcalm_lappy: i use identifont
<ali1234> but, i don't think it has free fonts either
<ali1234> but since nobody uses them and they are all terrible anyway...
<hank3three3chat> I have a netbook, that doesn't have much ram, it works with 11.10 ok, but its very slow and can only tolerate having one program open before it goes slow, just wondered, how do you install xubuntu on it?
<bigcalm_lappy> Sod it, this logo will get the Ubuntu Light treatment  :D
<ali1234> what logo?
<ali1234> also if you dont know the font how do you know it;s free?
<ali1234> or do you just want the most similar free font?
<ali1234> also if you have a nice big logo, just trace it and then clean it up
<bigcalm_lappy> ali1234: reproducing the logo with a similar font was the idea. Have decided to use Ubuntu Light and it fits quite nicely. I'm not being paid to do this, so less work is better
<popey> quiet in here today âº
<popey> i might spark the bbq up again later
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> BBQitis ;)
<popey> well I bought 8 burgers, 8 sausages, 8 chicken kebabs.. we ate half of it all yesterday
<popey> could freeze them I guess, get them out again next weekend
<MartijnVdS> refreeze or just freeze?
<gordonjcp> I want to go outside and do stuff
<MartijnVdS> refrozen meat = yuk
<gordonjcp> but I've been out all afternoon and am now too hot
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I did a 1-hour run in the sun today. I'm a bit red :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I've been outside, starting stuff
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: in the 'hood?
<gordonjcp> I could sit inside and have some tea for an hour, while the CitroÃ«n charges up
<popey> MartijnVdS: its not frozen
<popey> so freeze
<MartijnVdS> popey: Nah, BBQ is good for you :)
<gordonjcp> I could then start that
<popey> the burgers came frozen, so they're in the freezer
<gordonjcp> I need to split up the 1.5kg of mince I bought yesterday
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Citroen charges up? You have an electric Citroen?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, just the battery for starting it
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: ah :)
<gordonjcp> I haven't driven it for about a year and now it's run out of electricity
<MartijnVdS> They do that..
<gordonjcp> annoyingly it's nose-in
<gordonjcp> so I can't even get the van round to jump start it
<gordonjcp> I tried charging it from the genny but it's drawing too much current and trips it out
<MartijnVdS> So now you're on an exercise bicycle, charging the battery? ;)
<gordonjcp> no, I'm sitting inside out of the sun drinking tea and looking for a battery charger
<gordonjcp> and contemplating getting a motorbike licence
<MartijnVdS> mid-life crisis time ;)
<gordonjcp> petrol price crisis time
<gordonjcp> much as I love driving around in the CX, at 32mpg it's a bit heavy for day-to-day use
<MartijnVdS> ah, my Smart does ~45ish
<gordonjcp> I have a diesel van but it's thirsty as hell
<gordonjcp> I specced a CitroÃ«n Dispatch with the 2-litre engine and 6-speed box, but the company bought the 1.6 with 5-speed box
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Smart, except it's tiny
<gordonjcp> because it was cheaper and "the smaller engine would be better on fuel"
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> unless you drive long distances
<MartijnVdS> and people on motorways will just "forget" you're there
<gordonjcp> like, um, me
<gordonjcp> so in day-to-day use it gets about 30mph, dropping to 25 on the motorway
<MartijnVdS> But if the company bought the van, don't they also pay for fuel?
<gordonjcp> they do, but I tend not to take the piss if I'm doing personal miles in it
<MartijnVdS> ah, understandable
<gordonjcp> so I'm thinking about putting it back to being a pool vehicle and not paying company car taxes
<MartijnVdS> I seldom go to (or from) work by car. \o/ proper train service
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> yeah, I get that a lot
<gordonjcp> "ZOMG you shouldn't drive around use public transport"
<gordonjcp> righto
<MartijnVdS> Doesn't work for all kinds of work though, I agree
<gordonjcp> will do, how do you fancy coming with me to carry the 700kg of test equipment?
<ali1234> 700kg? are you testing elephants?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I have literally a vanload of test gear, tools and spares
<gordonjcp> at the moment it's mostly empty
<gordonjcp> next week I have to pretty much decant half the workshop into my van
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: put a wifi access point in it, "Police Surveillance Van #432"
<MartijnVdS> (SSID)
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I told you about the "secret CCTV spy vans"?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: TV Licence Check Van
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: the local council have some security guys
<gordonjcp> they do stuff like drive around council housing estates, direct traffic at football matches, things like that
<gordonjcp> stuff that it would be a waste of time for the police to do
<MartijnVdS> I know the kind.
<gordonjcp> so the Daily Record published a story ranting about how the council were deploying "SECRET SPY CCTV VANS" to spy on football fans and what a disgrace it was
<gordonjcp> a month or so later
<gordonjcp> the Daily Record published a story saying that the council had deployed a "State-of-the-Art Covert Surveillance Vehicle" to monitor the Occupy protestors in Blythswood Square
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: A white van?
<gordonjcp> mostly
<gordonjcp> let me just find a pic
<gordonjcp> https://picasaweb.google.com/109321528270428317785/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTP3aG7y4SfjwE&feat=directlink#5682689893956175202
<gordonjcp> if it wasn't for the snow you'd see the words "CCTV VEHICLE" across the roof above the windscreen
<MartijnVdS> If that's state of the art and secret/covert..
<MartijnVdS> they're not even trying
<gordonjcp> it's very advanced
<gordonjcp> it has two 3G modems, a kettle and a microwave
<MartijnVdS> _2_ 3G modems. In case one of the networks flakes out?
<gordonjcp> well one is for internet access, one is for the IP cameras
<gordonjcp> it's pretty cool, they can route video from moving vans to and from the control room
<gordonjcp> and out to their bus in the picture
<MartijnVdS> that's cool
<gordonjcp> yeah, saves a lot of time
<gordonjcp> "Right, it's that guy with the blue jacket"
<gordonjcp> "Most of them have blue jackets"
<MartijnVdS> but it's not quite secret, with the reflecting line on it and all
<gordonjcp> "Well the guy with the blue jacket and the - aw, fuck it, <clickety> *that* guy..."
<gordonjcp> well yeah, tbh it wouldn't be my first choice as a covert surveillance vehicle
<gordonjcp> I'd go for a rusty white transit
<gordonjcp> maybe red, with shinier bits where the Post Office vinyl-cut has been removed
<MartijnVdS> "FREE CANDY" written on the side
<MartijnVdS> I've seen the inside of one of those TV "mobile reporting" vans (with the satellite dish on top) once. They have LOTS of VERY cool gear.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yeah, I know a guy who drives one
<gordonjcp> nice stuff
<gordonjcp> when he's bored he uses the link dish and spectrum analyser as a radio telescope ;-)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
 * MartijnVdS hates gnome-dvb-daemon a bit more
<MartijnVdS> they've finally fixed the driver for my satellite card
<mgdm> I keep meaning to ask the guy at work for a tour of our one
<MartijnVdS> now the userspace software is annoying :)
<ali1234> why would you even use that?
<ali1234> use mythtv
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Doesn't that require my machine to be a dedicated MythTV thing?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I just want a window with a video stream..
<ali1234> you need to install mythbackend
<ali1234> so yes, in the sense that your machine is currently a dedicated dbus server and X server
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Backend, that's not frontend.
<ali1234> yes you need to install mythfrontend too
 * MartijnVdS tries
<MartijnVdS> MYSQL-SERVER?!
<ali1234> yeah so what?
<MartijnVdS> (a) it'
<MartijnVdS> s mysql
<ali1234> it's better than couchdb
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sqlite++
<ali1234> sqlite is slooooooooooooooooooow
<popey> damning with feint praise there ali1234 âº
<MartijnVdS> now it's asking me for a mysql root pw
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<ali1234> popey: maybe, but nobody blinks if you ask them to install couchdb just to be able to tweet some lolcats or something
<ali1234> i can understand why twitter needs a database to run their website, i can't understand why gwibber needs one
<AlanBell> gwibber didn't use couchdb in anything like a sensible way
<ali1234> afaict couchdb is designed only to be used in non-sensible ways
<mgdm> thunderbird reckons I received 5869 new messages there
<mgdm> no, I didn't
<AlanBell> couchdb didn't turn out how I expected it to
<AlanBell> gwibber and Ubuntu One used it in such strange ways I am not surprised that neither of them worked out
<AlanBell> the way they were doing it was kind of like storing a novel in an ext4 directory as millions of zero byte files with the content in the filenames and ls of the directory to read the file
<ali1234> hmmmmm how do i figure out what order css directives get applied in?
<mgdm> ali1234: the algorithm is sadly quite complex
<ali1234> so i;ve got two directives
<mgdm> ali1234: though Firebug in Firefox/Chrome's developer tools/Chromium's equivalent give you enough of an idea
<ali1234> #widgets li {...} and li.myclass {...}
<ali1234> and the former overrides the latter
<mgdm> yes, due to specificity
<mgdm> identifying something by an ID is more specific than by a class
<ali1234> ironcially, the former applies to a lot more things than the latter
<ali1234> #widgets ul {...} means all <ul> inside a element with ID #widgets?
<mgdm> would making the latter '#widgets li.myclass' break other things?
<mgdm> yes
<ali1234> ok so i just need to do my custom CSS the same way then
<ali1234> er, what you said shouldn't break anything
<ali1234> it might break my plugin from working with other themes actually
<ali1234> i don't think wordpress ever sets IDs, it sets classes on everything
<mgdm> Oh, WP
<ali1234> yeah so basically i'm making a wordpress plugin and i want it to work with any theme
<ali1234> but it needs custom CSS to do what it does
<mgdm> ah yes
<mgdm> a reasonable request
<ali1234> so i need to say "ignore the theme, do this"
<ali1234> i will just set by hand IDs on the widget html
<ali1234> actually that won't work because it's the <li> i need to override
<ali1234> and there's obviously more than one of those
<ali1234> ah but i can do exactly what theyve done... ok
 * mgdm plays CSS Suxx
<mgdm> or I would, if spotify hadn't removed it
<mgdm> grrr
<ali1234> well that didn't work
<ali1234> and also it broke all the existing styling
<ali1234> ah ! important
<ali1234> seems to be what i need
<ali1234> oh hang on, they have to be otherwise equal
<ali1234> aaaaah. i get it now
<ali1234> that's stupid :(
<ali1234> but i can fix it
<ali1234> argh now it doesn't work at all
<ali1234> i need to insert an extra div to hold all my elements, just so that i can have an extra element selector in the rule, so that it will be "more specific"
<mgdm> yes
<mgdm> it sucks
<mgdm> also, !important is hilarious - to anyone with even half a coding brain, it looks like "not important"
<ali1234> they should have made it imporant!!!!
<ali1234> where more !  wine
<ali1234> *wins
<mgdm> hehe
<BigRedS> more wine?
<ali1234> then it would have actually been useful
<MartijnVdS> ! is a bottle in nethack :)
<lubotu3> MartijnVdS: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ali1234> because the chances of two ules being "otherwise equal" is virtual zero anyway
<ali1234> wait hang on
<penguin42> Tis lovely out thre
<spych102> MKU.x123
<daubers> Afternoon
<ali1234> display:inline-block;
<ali1234> why have i never seen that before?
<MartijnVdS> because you value your sanity?
<ali1234> "and i thought php coding was bad"
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> Having installed 12.04 beta1... will the updates automatically take me the equivalent of beta2 & final release?
<penguin42> yeh
<SuperEngineer> Thanks penguin42 - I'm sure it's been asked 100's of times b4 - forgive my ignorance  pretty please
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You occasionally get a few corners that aren't quite tidied up, but it normally does
<SuperEngineer> Do I need to change update sources come final release [to align with actual Precise release?
<brobostigon> no.
<SuperEngineer> weee!   thanks a mil
<spych102> SuperEngineer I had to dist-upgrade to update all my packages
<SuperEngineer> spych102: woops! [that is what I suspected, tho - that or realligning software sources]
<spych102> i'm not sure that's the way it's supposed to work though...
<SuperEngineer> ...although that does conflict with brobostigon 's statement
<ali1234> you're always spposed to dist-upgrade on ubuntu
<ali1234> you don't have to edit sources.list
<spych102> thanks ali1234
<SuperEngineer> thanks ali1234
<ali1234> apt-get dist-upgrade is like apt-get upgrade except it can remove packages
<ali1234> dist-upgrade isn't actually a distribution upgrade
<Nafallo> not true. the always dist-upgrade.
<Nafallo> upgrade is the correct usual case.
<ali1234> oh there's a factoid
<ali1234> !dist-upgrade
<lubotu3> A dist-upgrade will install new dependencies for packages already installed and may remove packages if they are no longer needed. This will not bring you to a new release of Ubuntu, see !upgrade if that is your intention.
<spych102> so what is used to upgrade between distributions then
<Nafallo> spych102: do-release-upgrade
<ali1234> sudo do-release-upgrade
<ali1234> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<ali1234> hmm that's not really very explanatory
<Nafallo> there was a recent case where a dist-upgrade would have removed ubuntu-desktop, unity and most of compiz.
<SuperEngineer> even from the beta installs?
<Nafallo> so for unstable systems, dist-upgrade can be a killer ;-)
<BigRedS> well, everything can
<spych102> i know so little after so many years with ubuntu...
<BigRedS> that's why they're described as 'unstable'
<Nafallo> upgrade would hold the packages that try to remove stuff instead :-P
<Nafallo> just saying
<popey> yeah, i am more careful about dist-upgrading within a dev release
<popey> archive skew can end up with unity/compiz getting removed
<Nafallo> my standard command is sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -dy dist-upgrade
<Nafallo> -dy = download only, answer yes
<Nafallo> that shows me what the system wants to do, AND grab all the things it might want to do ;-)
<spych102> then how do you apply the updates?
<Nafallo> depends on the updates.
<Nafallo> either apt-get install <package>, apt-get install upgrade or apt-get install dist-upgrade
<Nafallo> OR I just use the nice graphical update-manager ;-)
<popey> with fewer installs in those lines
<Nafallo> on servers I tend to use either apt-get install for just a few packages, or go aptitude if it's more.
<Nafallo> oh. quite right popey ;-)
<Nafallo> either apt-get install <package>, apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade
<Nafallo> there!
<spych102> i think i'd rather chance it and reinstall
<popey> chance what?
<Nafallo> chance loosing things :-P
<popey> oh
<spych102> removing the desktop, unity and compiz
<popey> it wont if you read what it says on the screen
<spych102> i never do that
<popey> and if you "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get upgrade" it definitely wont
<Nafallo> reinstall is a hell of a lot more drastic. that would clear all files you have :-P
<spych102> but i have a separate /home
<Nafallo> unencrypted? ;-)
<popey> â¹  people dont do upgrades
<popey> they thus aren't testing them
<popey> so dont file bugs
<popey> so they never get fixed
<Nafallo> hmm
<popey> so people complain that upgrades don't work
<popey> self perpetuating spiral of fail
<Nafallo> I do upgrade, but then fix stuff myself before bothering people... I should fix that.
<Nafallo> but then again, I'm tempted to just use LTS for a while ;-)
<Nafallo> once precise lands fully.
<Nafallo> hmm. there are a lot of packages it wants to upgrade on my netbook, and last time I did, it broke :-/
<penguin42> popey: Lots of people in +1 having problems with the upgrade
<penguin42> but it's very difficult to test; so many combinations of different packages people have installed
<popey> there's a problem with unity/compiz right now
<popey> people are recommended to use unity2d for now
<popey> until tomorrow
<Nafallo> popey: is this the screen flickering?
<popey> some people get black screen
<Nafallo> hmm
 * SuperEngineer hits screen to see if it flickers -nope -not even then!
<Nafallo> popey: so yeah. I updated shit and went all... let's revert, then apt-btrfs-snapshot wasn't about to move to an earlier snapshot for some reason and stuff broke for realz :-P
 * SuperEngineer turns screen upside done to see if compiz drops out the case.... nope~ still no fault found
<Nafallo> s/about/able/
<Nafallo> I manage to fix it though, eventually.
<Nafallo> I'm good at fixing broken Ubuntus ;-)
<Nafallo> I've had lots of practise
<SuperEngineer> Nafallo: then why so bugs still listed.... go fix 'em!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Nafallo> well. I might get more involved in the community again at some point...
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<Nafallo> right now finding a new flat and a new job are higher on my priority list
<Nafallo> hi pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> is anyone using gnome-shell on Ubuntu 12.04?
<pr0ph3t> I am guessing I'm in the completely wrong channel
<spych102> ...tumbleweed...
<Nafallo> not the wrong channel, I wouldn't say.
<popey> I'm sure someone somewhere is
<pr0ph3t> me :-)
<BigRedS> I am, but not right now
<BigRedS> I installed it, but I thought I'd give Unity another go today, since apparently it's sobered up in several areas since I last tried it
<Nafallo> popey: so, is it just compiz and unity I need to hold off upgrading?
<Nafallo> popey: i.e. stuff like the gconf split should be fine?
<popey> what compiz and unity releases you on?
<Nafallo> nafallo@parakeet:~$ dpkg -l compiz unity | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2,$3}'
<Nafallo> compiz 1:0.9.7.0+bzr3035-0ubuntu1
<Nafallo> unity 5.6.0-0ubuntu4
<popey> yeah, keep them
<Nafallo> popey: how about nux?
<popey> I'd keep that back too
<Nafallo> yeah. I assumed so :-)
 * Nafallo upgrades bits of his netbook instead of all ;-)
<SuperEngineer> I am not the world's biggest unity fan & therefore [perhaps]  I shouldn't like 12.04 *but* - I replaced 11.10 with it & am getting interested [though 10.04 is till my staple diet on same pooter]
<SuperEngineer> with the addition of Cairo Dock -it is odg so far
<SuperEngineer> *pdg
<SuperEngineer> - & I'm impressed with the speed of change from crash or freeze or fail to now working ok - it's still 1st beta!
<SuperEngineer> ...if only the apps [not core] could be fixed at same speed
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Some things which look horribly broken are actually one simple problem - and the other way!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:  agreed
 * penguin42 hands SuperEngineer a good text editor and compiler
 * SuperEngineer is overcome by penguin42's generosity - so overcome that  the blushes themselves are blushing
<penguin42> ahhh shucks
<ali1234> why would you run cairo dock in unity?
<ali1234> why even keep unity?
<Azelphur> I run cairo-dock without unity xD
<ali1234> it's like saying KDE is pretty good if you use gnome-panel with it
<gordonjcp> the thing that bugs me about Unity is the annoying way it "stacks" multiple windows in the buttons down the side
<gordonjcp> it's hard enough to tell what they are
<ali1234> all docks do that
<ali1234> which is why i boggle whenever someone claims cairo-dock is better than unity
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: i got too used to [app menu as a global check] & especially the weather  info in nitification area -still missing from from unity
<ali1234> i don't understand
<SuperEngineer> ...& the ability to one click "restart" in 10.04 - not poss 12.04 till you choose "shutdown"... Spock says - but that's illogical Captain!
<ali1234> of course it is
<ali1234> shutdown vs shutdown and then start again
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: did you try my window quicklists thing?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: no, what was that?
<SuperEngineer> I choose shutdown to restart Captain? When I used to state "restart"? No! [Spock has a fit]
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/03/16/unity-window-quicklists/
<SuperEngineer> check notification area for waether in area he's off to travel to each day... "but it's not there Captain"!  [Spoke has an emotionalcrisis]
<gordonjcp> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/alanbell/unity/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/source/Sources
<AlanBell> ah, sorry, precise only at the moment
<gordonjcp> ah, I can't run precise
<AlanBell> and there is an api call I am using that isn't in oneiric
<gordonjcp> I've only got 2G of RAM
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: therefore.... SuperEngineer uses Cairo Dock in 12.04.... simples ;)
<gordonjcp> is precise going to be less memory-hungry when it's finished?
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: but that's not my original question... why do you use cairo-dock with unity? why don't you use cario-dock *without* unity?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: coz I leave Unity active for the seldom used but "wanted in a hurry when wanted" apps... the rest I leave to Cairo
<SuperEngineer> .me just saw AlanBell 's quicklists thing....  & wonders wht AlanBell doesn't go to Canonical & collect his reward [whist kicking them where it makes them go "ouch!" for not including it in release!!!!
 * AlanBell looks forward to the all expenses paid trip to California
<AlanBell> oh look, there it is :) \o/
<BigRedS> haha
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: did you here them go "ouch" ?
<BigRedS> There I was, expecting an explanation that that's just not how free software works :)
<AlanBell> I think they are maintaining that the alt-tab behavior of raising all the wrong windows just doesn't exist
<AlanBell> and that clicking on a launcher item doesn't raise all the windows, just the most recent one
<BigRedS> it doesn't *always* get it wrong
<SuperEngineer> a kiss/lick in the **** is better than none.... i.e. free!
<BigRedS> that's half the fun
<ali1234> yeah half the time it doesn't do that
 * SuperEngineer hums "how many alt-tabs must a man walk down"
<ali1234> http://phrogz.net/css/vertical-align/index.html :C
<SuperEngineer> Looking back at my previous [in case y'all think it's a whinge] may I point out that  I refuse to "whinge" at stuff people work hard to creatre & to provide with good intent, that is "free as in dinner" as well as "free as in freedom".  I maintain my right to constructive critique is all.
<ali1234> whinge all you want
<SuperEngineer> ok - whinge I will... why isn't the weather perfect? - why do people insist on shoppping at the same time I do?  ...and as to the state ogf modern governments - well makes I spit!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and don't even ask me about taxation... :D
<BigRedS> I maintain my right to rant
<SuperEngineer> +1
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Up here in Manchester, the weather today was pretty much perfect
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: see- you're making me whinge again!  it's not perfect here in Glos. - sometimes at least 1/2 degree too hot, sometimes at least 1/2 degree too cold!
<SuperEngineer> ....now the sun's going down!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: See, we even managed some sun for the queen this time around, to make up for completely soaking her at the Common Wealth games a few years ago
<SuperEngineer> grr
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: [perhaps she was grateful for the free bath]
<penguin42> haha
<diplo> evening all
<SuperEngineer> *don't* miss the oportunity folks - if sky is clear where you are - look up in direction of the moon
<SuperEngineer> venus, jupiter & moon forming an 'L' plate - - you'd think they'd had enough lessons by now ;)
<gordonjcp> :-)
<gordonjcp> and if you're up around 5am tomorrow, look out for the ISS
<gordonjcp> just after 6am on the 28th it will be by far the brightest thing in the sky
<SuperEngineer> [if no satellite debris beats us to it]
 * daubers really needs a new telescope
 * MartijnVdS saw a zig-zag line in the skies earlier
<MartijnVdS> Just a short stretch of zig-zag white in a blue sky
 * SuperEngineer hands daubers a virtual telescope & MartijnVdS a virtual bottle of eye wash
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I'll upload the pic I took with my EOS :)
<SuperEngineer> ...& MartijnVdS  a virtual box of lens cleaner
<SuperEngineer> [on *my* planet we see loads of zig-zag lines in the sky... but they still can't find us!!!!
<SuperEngineer> [life is better on *my* planet]
 * SuperEngineer hopes GCHQ ain't monitoring!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: 90%..
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://imgur.com/YasE2
<SuperEngineer> oh... that! soz, that was me on a quicky back home to *my* planet
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<SuperEngineer> though some might say it was a piece of debris burning up in atmoshere.... or  a militia experiment?
<SuperEngineer> *atmosphere
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it stayed there for several minutes
<SuperEngineer> ...or N. Korea missile [sorry, sattelite launcher] being tested?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: visible in the Netherlands. Likely story.
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: It's in the west too, so it must be something you Brits did.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nah, surely not! what have Netherlands done to upset N. korea?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Exist? Not be communist?
<SuperEngineer> well - what did you expect then? provacation!
<SuperEngineer> [although I suppose it could be air-to-air missile combat training]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah, that's to the north from here, and too far away.
<SuperEngineer> slowest missile around if it was, as well!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: It looks a bit like that crack the Doctor found in Amy's bedroom.
<SuperEngineer> hey... this is a family channel!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
 * jacobw restarts compiz
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: again..
<jacobw> ja
<jacobw> i still prefer unity to shell :|
<jacobw> ++hud
<MartijnVdS> hud--
<MartijnVdS> messing up my Alt
<jacobw> hold your alt
<MartijnVdS> no!
<MartijnVdS> sometimes I press alt in error
<MartijnVdS> then the HUD pops up
<popey> ditto
<MartijnVdS> then I turn off the HUD.
<ali1234> &hud = 0;
<ali1234> i turned off the windows key short cut too
<MartijnVdS> as long as alt+f2 still works
<ali1234> it does :)
<MartijnVdS> because that was a problem earlier.. turn of HUD, lose ALL alt shortcuts
<ali1234> i wish there was an option to make that appear instead of the dash when you click the bfb
<MartijnVdS> As if they don't test their commits before releasing them :(
<jacobw> what's the state of asterisk on ubuntu server?
<jacobw> (i'm aware of #ubuntu-server, and of Daviey)
<SuperEngineer> Scientists identity a genetic variant that turns mild flu into a life-threatening illness. [they call it "the idiot who coughs all over you"]
<christel> 7
<christel> e3r
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: doesn't that mean you can kill those people in self-defence and get off free?
<DJones> the cloudprint app on ubuntu server
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - never thought of that - perhaps it's time to "beta" test the theory ;)
<DJones> Does anybody use the cloudprint app on ubuntu server
<MartijnVdS> cloudprint app?
<MartijnVdS> isn't that part of Gnome?
<MartijnVdS> ur
<MartijnVdS> Chrome*
<amarcolino> hi just did a clean install of 11.10 with lvm, however, on boot the lvm partitions arean't activated/mounted unless I manually do vgchange -a y, would like to know how to automate this for every boot or how to go about sorting this issue?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Sort of, but there is a terminal based app so you don't need a gui & chrome installed
<MartijnVdS> DJones: there is? cool.
<DJones> MartijnVdS: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/cloudprint
<DJones> Just getting my tablet so I can print
<SuperEngineer> anyone found a way of using CryptKeeper in 12.04?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Reading Hackspace Door Entry System - http://daubers.co.uk/2012/03/25/reading-hackspace-door-entry-system/
<SuperEngineer> as in bug #bug #963522
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 963522 in cryptkeeper (Ubuntu) "cryptkeeper does not show in 12.04 notification area or in unity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963522
 * SuperEngineer is now catching up on Linux Outlaws podcasts... bfn... luv to all  & have fun --= & virtual smiles to y'all :-)
 * popey points AlanBell at https://bugs.launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+bug/1/comments/1647
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<popey> AlanBell: i emailed him and pointed him at the a11y list fwiw
<mgdm> Oh, hello
<mgdm> I just discovered the windows key + W expose-style thing
<mgdm> that's quite cool
<BigRedS> I just pressed it and I've no idea what happened
<BigRedS> It is, I think, what a DE would see if it's life flashed before its eyes
<mgdm> well, it's about 1 in 10 that Unity will crash :P
<BigRedS> Yeah, I just did it again and I think it went right that time
<mgdm> but on mine it gave me thumbnails of all my open windows
<BigRedS> like gnome3's win key
<mgdm> I've not played much with gnome-shell, so I can't compare (I have it on a netbook, but binned it in favour of LXDE)
<BigRedS> Ah, I've been a bit of a DE whore recently
<BigRedS> Now I'm annoyed with all of them :)
<ali1234> http://www.webdevout.net/test?01x
<ali1234> i hate css
<mgdm> I've learned to hate CSS over a period of approximately 10 years
<mgdm> it's quite a well-developed hatred, now
<BigRedS> I don't think anybody *likes* it
<mgdm> that's why I do the back-end of web development - I might spend a lot of time using PHP and MySQL, but at least for the most part I don't have to deal with ^%(%ing CSS
<mgdm> (and the various bugs and 'features' of its implementations)
<ali1234> opacity is really broken
<ali1234> opacity+hover that is
<BigRedS> Oh, I grumble when I need to write PHP
<ali1234> if you want to change opacity on hover, you can do that
 * mgdm is mgdm at php dot net, so based on that evidence doesn't hate it that muc
<ali1234> but if you have another element over it, the hover won't pass through unless the element is nested, and then it inherits opacity
<mgdm> I'm not under any illusions, though
<BigRedS> mgdm: yeah, I remember your odd taste in programming lanugages :)
<BigRedS> I wrote a bunch of perl for our web devs to use to interfere with our systems, and then they reminded me that what they actually wanted was some php functions :/
<mgdm> it's terrible. I'm writing Python right now, FFS.
<ali1234> so you can't have an image, then a transparent div that changes on mouse over, and then none transparent text, all stacked
<ali1234> wait, does CSS support RGBA?
<mgdm> yes
<mgdm> in modern browsers, at least
<mgdm> background-color: rgba(0, 1, 0.5, 0) I believe
<ali1234> ok so maybe i can do it that way and it won't be inherited
<mgdm> apparently, and this might shock you, but IE may not support it
<mgdm> http://24ways.org/2009/working-with-rgba-colour
<mgdm> that is from 2009, though
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> rg and b are ints and a is a float
<mgdm> Oh
<mgdm> I've been doing too much cairo
<ali1234> so you have to say rgba(0,127,255,0.5);
<mgdm> so RGB are probably all 0 -> 255, then?
<ali1234> this is so stupid
<ali1234> who comes up with this stuff, hnestly?
<mgdm> I don't know
<mgdm> I wish I knew
<mgdm> then I would have someone I could make a voodoo doll of
<ali1234> it does work however
<mgdm> \o/
<ali1234> ie can get stuffed
<mgdm> I've been redoing my own site, and using lesscss.org for it
<mgdm> which makes CSS marginally less painful, because you can do things like define a colour once, and reference it everywhere
<mgdm> and nest declarations, and have mixins, and such
<mgdm> I'm of the opinion that the WHATWG or whoever should just lift that as CSS4
<BigRedS> ooh
<BigRedS> that's quite neat
<mgdm> yes, it is, very
<mgdm> I have it embedded in a deployment process at work, so you can write LESS and it makes actual real CSS by the time you it staging
<mgdm> there are others (SASS, SCSS, etc) but none of them are quite so elegant
<ali1234> http://dev.drumoff.tv/?v=177
<ali1234> \o/ yeah
<ali1234> mouse over the voting block
<ali1234> now i've got it working i don't even like it
<mgdm> Forbidden
<mgdm> You don't have permission to access / on this server.
<BigRedS> It's verboten :(
<ali1234> try now :)
<mgdm> that works
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-18
<shauno> owncloud's sync apps seem quite blunt.  moved one folder inside another.  folder is synced to two machines.  each now has two copies of the folder I moved.
<knightwise> morning everyone
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<redtape-renegade> Good Moro .. Warning will robinson:::  I'm not in a good mood as it's   PG-Tips day today because; I've run out of Twinings Chai Tea /AGAIN!!/  .
<popey> redtape-renegade: i prefer the powdered chai, i find the twinings stuff too weak
<SuperMatt> any word on a release party?
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: well it wasn't clear that there was going to be a release
<redtape-renegade> popey,     Twinings Chai 50 Tea Bags (125g) has Cinnamox, QUESTION:: What extra stuff does your's have ?
<SuperMatt> but we do know it's being released now
<SuperMatt> :D
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, Certainlt up for discussion ::::                           http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/iom/2013-March/subject.html#start
<redtape-renegade> **certainly
<SuperMatt> but that's IOM!
<redtape-renegade> Oh dear, did you miss the boat :p
<SuperMatt> not at all
<SuperMatt> I would fly from london city airport :P
<SuperMatt> I might drop an email to ubuntu-uk later today
<redtape-renegade> O00h pricey, must book a week in advance !
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, Not sure if you'll get a ceratin; 5 GBP NOTE today :D
<BigRedS> Release party? What's being released?
<redtape-renegade> 13.04  ..
<redtape-renegade> should be kernel 3.8.xx
<BigRedS> Oh, that's next month isn't it?
<redtape-renegade> popey, [09:24:55] Nice if you could get back.
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS, Yes, *April 23rd* St Georges Day .. it's the same every yeatr !
<SuperMatt> so what you're saying is that we should do the release party on st georges day?
<redtape-renegade> perhaps .. the 24th would be usual ..perhaps the 27th or 28th weekend is bettr for getting the DVD's
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all! :-D
<BigRedS> DVDs? How very 2000s
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS, No that's Mini-CD's.
<BigRedS> Weren't they 90s? I'm sure I remember carying DSL around on one of those back before we had USB sticks
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, BigRedS You tried it on a Mini,Blu-ray yet ? .. It makes a funny noise !!!
 * redtape-renegade does a brainfart :S
<BigRedS> I don't think I own any optical drives any more
<BigRedS> The Internet doesn't get scratched up when you leave it in daft places :)
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS, I met a guy on Ubuntu channel this weekend that swears by http://rufus.akeo.ie/
<BigRedS> I use unetbootin
 * redtape-renegade agrees.
<BigRedS> I've never really felt the need to investigate alternatives
<directhex> it's 2013. dd an iso to a usb stick, it'll boot
<redtape-renegade> dicktracey: ping
<redtape-renegade> directhex, 'dd' means to you ?
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)
 * Laney giggles at Dd
 * redtape-renegade thought 'dd' meant 'direct drive Xd, soz
<BigRedS> directhex: is that generally true of modern ISOs or of modern hardware?
<directhex> BigRedS, modern isos.
<BigRedS> Ah, cool
<directhex> bigcalm, it's possible, if you're careful, to make an iso with multiple overlapping partition tables and descriptors, such that an ISO9660 image is also a MBR partition with an ISO9660 filesystem in partition 1
<directhex> or even in partition 3, for latest ubuntu
<directhex> in any case, "isohybrid" is the general term
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5624792/  Not sure where the package is located ??
<bigcalm> directhex: erm, thanks
<BigRedS> Haha
<directhex> er, BigRedS ^^
 * bigcalm goes back to sleep :)
<redtape-renegade> The Rovers Return goes up in Smokey Tonight ;)
<redtape-renegade> Anyone seen Sonita ?
<redtape-renegade> !sonita
<redtape-renegade> !seen sonita
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<redtape-renegade> Morning dweaver joan prmr .. It's a snowy one :P
<joan> morning red. It certainly is.
<dweaver> good morning
<redtape-renegade> joan, driving into work today .. I got this message :: https://twitter.com/Isle_of_Man/status/313251565261709314
 * redtape-renegade thought it was yesterday ?
<popey> redtape-renegade: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003VQXWC8
<popey> thats the one I like
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<redtape-renegade> popey Can I use THAT with this ?      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premier-Housewares-Diameter-Stainless-Steel/dp/B0052R78JC/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1363600743&sr=1-1-catcorr
<popey> why would you need to?
<redtape-renegade> I'm not sure my kitchen has the space.  Are they in tea bags ?
<ali1234> it's powder. like instant coffee
<popey> exactly
<redtape-renegade> popey "cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, vanilla"  you do realize *Vanilla* becomes caustic above 95 Â°C  ??
<redtape-renegade> Prb.ly only 2grams anyway :)
<popey> I didn't know that.
<popey> I rarely heat vanilla
<redtape-renegade> So as I dont have a Tea Maker Monkey gadget can I use a sieve ?
<popey> as ali1234 said, it's powder, it dissolves
<popey> you don't need a tea maker monkey gadget or a sieve
<redtape-renegade> oh ok .. I'll order some the, and get back to you . thank-you.
<popey> you could get away without a spoon too if your pouring skills are above "cretin level"
<ali1234> i usually just use a teapot and teabags
<redtape-renegade> **then
<popey> this doesn't surprise me for some reason ali1234
<popey> do you put the teapot on a tray and take it to your library?
<ali1234> haha, no
<ali1234> if i do that i forget about it and then 3 mnths later, oh look, a teapot full of mold
<redtape-renegade> libre library  ?
<redtape-renegade> Thelocal libary still serves those silly little plastic cups .. complete waste of money .. unless you re-use them :)
<czajkowski> Vanilla tea is yummy
<directhex> expensive vanilla ice cream is yummy
<czajkowski> oh so true
<directhex> redtape-renegade, it's a basic cost-benefit analysis. reusable cups means having facilities to clean them, and paying a librarian to do the cleaning, and insurance for all the required possible downsides, steam extraction ducts in the new kitchen area, etc etc etc
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * Laney has a whiskey in the jar earworm
 * Laney satisfies it
<redtape-renegade> directhex, Great morney music on skype, the Library.  #0044 1624 673000
<directhex> ... wat?
<redtape-renegade> directhex, You were talking about the Librarian...
<Azelphur> for those who have been following my epic landlord saga, I had a go at him when he came to collect rent today, he didn't even collect the rent and just ran away :D
<redtape-renegade> Azelphur, Morning .. There is a good book for that.
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> redtape-renegade: is it a thick book that I can hit my landlord with?
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, use the phone book under your bed ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkr2sl5x4jg6ds5/Rec_2013-03-18-%2810-14-29%29.3gp is the recording, for amusement purposes (skip to 0:27)
<directhex> Azelphur, careful, that might have been intentional (he didn't pay! i can evict now!)
<redtape-renegade> Use the word "c$nt"
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<Azelphur> directhex: it'd be hard baring in mind I have the convo recorded and at no point did he request I pay
<Azelphur> I simply asked about the repair issues and he ran away.
<czajkowski> Azelphur: careful he could also say he was harassed
<czajkowski> did you tell him you were recording him also
<Azelphur> again, unlikely, recorded :)
<Azelphur> nope
<czajkowski> aren't you meant to...
<Azelphur> not in the privacy of my own home afaik, no
<czajkowski> Azelphur: wouldnt it have been easier in the long run to just have moved by now
<Azelphur> czajkowski: locked into a 6 month tenancy
<czajkowski> I'm sure he'd agree to part with you at this rate
<Azelphur> plus I kinda feel sad for the other poor sods who are stuck here and getting screwed over too
<Azelphur> I also have to kinda bide my time for a bit, I'm building up money with the goal of buying a place, so I've got a couple of months to burn :)
<czajkowski> and drive a landlord crazy
<redtape-renegade> Azelphur, I've listened to the clip and it looks like you need to upload things to your printer more often than not ... for this guy.
<czajkowski> you're kinda not making it easy for you, him or the tohers tbh
<czajkowski> *others
<Azelphur> czajkowski: how so? all he needs to do is do the repairs he promised to do and I'd leave him alone
<redtape-renegade> Azelphur, I've listened to the clip and it looks like you need to upload things to your printer more often than not ... for this guy.
<Azelphur> redtape-renegade: huh?
<redtape-renegade> You nee to write to him  m ! :)
<Azelphur> yea done that
<czajkowski> I think you'd have been better off by now contacting these people and not resorting to recording him tbh. http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Key_Information/STEL02_111894.html
<Azelphur> written, texted, phoning :P
<redtape-renegade> **him,   man
<Azelphur> czajkowski: I've already contacted health and safety from the council (which is what my solicitor advised me to do)
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, There's nothing wrong with recording your landlord !! it's your temporary property !
<czajkowski> *shrugs* fair enough Azelphur just from all the reading of this issue, instead of going the legal way you could have taken the less agressive of tackling it via mediation of landlords and tennants
 * czajkowski removes the ! key from redtape-renegade 
<Azelphur> czajkowski: perhaps, I didn't know it existed, I actually started off asking shelter what the best approach was, and they said to take the legal route.
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, huh ?
<Azelphur> At the end of the day if you say to someone "Move in and I'll do X, Y, and Z" and then you do NONE of it, we all know it's gonna end in tears.
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: re read your last sentence and count the !:)
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, Wow your so sensitive for a girl !
<czajkowski> Azelphur: one of the top hits on sorting out landlord and tennant issues
 * Azelphur shrugs
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: it has nothing to do with being a girl. don't be silly.
 * redtape-renegade slaps himshelf redtape-renegade facepalms.
<Azelphur> czajkowski: just to give you some idea, he continually tells tenants to dump on the path to my front door, https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo537hl9dvqcsg7/2013-03-11%2013.30.13.mp4 promised to clean it up 5 months ago when I moved in
<Azelphur> one of the many issues :)
<Azelphur> it's even worse now, there's used nappies and rotting food and stuff too :)
<Azelphur> and that's just one of a long list of around 20 issues
<ali1234> help! help! i'm being oppressed
<Azelphur> haha :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: more like "Your oppressing me and I'm pissed" *oppressor runs away*
 * redtape-renegade realizes these are not the SWest Droids you are looking for.
<redtape-renegade> I keep getting message back from twitter ppl saying "What is the warning you are typing about ? " https://twitter.com/3rdwiki
<redtape-renegade> I think I just change my avatar Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> @PrivacyCamp WARNING WILL ROBINSON : THERE WILL BE A MASSIVE FINANCIAL COLLAPSE IN DECEMBER 2013 !!
<Azelphur> maybe they mean that?
<redtape-renegade> wasn't that a retweet ?
<Azelphur> no
 * redtape-renegade slaps his galaxyS
<redtape-renegade> Azelphur, Do you think I should change my avatar, then ?
<Azelphur> up to you :)
<redtape-renegade> well I'm opinionating you... ?
<Azelphur> help help, I'm being opinionated.
<redtape-renegade> Haha
<Azelphur> looks fine to me :)
<redtape-renegade> coolm, thanks
<redtape-renegade> **coll-aid
<redtape-renegade> **cool
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, ping I put a mess.age on #ubuntu-uk-meeting  did you get it .. ??
<Laney> is it usual that I have to open a new ISA to use next year's allowance?
<Laney> I have some 60 day notice account
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, I have replaced the ! key with a | key, thank-you.                         s :Â¬] IReland still lost by seven points
<redtape-renegade> !topic  .. Ahh .. it worx :D
<lubotu3> redtape-renegade: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<redtape-renegade> .. Whoopsie /topic  should've been.
 * Laney blinks
 * redtape-renegade goes to Machu Picchu Co :D
<redtape-renegade> Permalink: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008CVBZ76
 * Laney wonders why his council tax bill wasn't in 12 instalments by default
<directhex> Laney, mine's 10 installments
<DJones> Laney: THey're always in 10 installments
<DJones> I've never seen one in 12 installments
<redtape-renegade> Laney, The council, come on ^_^ http://youtu.be/niaG695uaso?t=3m58s
<dogmatic69> Bought a HP LaserJet pro 200 colour printer on the weekend. Ubuntu installed it faster than I pugged the thing in
<dogmatic69> Was not sure it would even work at all.
 * DJones checks the channel topic to see if he's joined #link-spam by mistake
<Laney> DJones: it says on the back that you can mail them to request 12
<redtape-renegade> DJones, It's just a slight joke :)
<DJones> Laney: Must admit, I'ver never heard of anybody doing that
 * Laney just did
<Laney> 1.9% increaase - 0.1% below the referendum threshold
<redtape-renegade> Come on ? Are we really talking about the friggin' council ?
<Myrtti> is that somehow subpar to talking about cricket or rugby?
<redtape-renegade> definately.
<Laney> we should be posting links to jars of coffee on amazon instead
<Myrtti> ah I see
<redtape-renegade> Laney, That's included in my Superscope ;)
 * redtape-renegade has swaparse ;(
<redtape-renegade> **swaparse :(
<mgdm> pointer to pointer to swaparse?
<redtape-renegade> **swamparse :( soz
<redtape-renegade> Hi mgmd
 * Laney goes elsewhere
<Myrtti> I atleast understand the discussion about council, rugby and cricket escape me. And so does most of the other discussion.
<mgdm> there's something I don't fancy dereferencing
<mgdm> 'lo redtape-renegade
<redtape-renegade> mgmd "     'lo   " ??
<redtape-renegade> oh hello. gotcha.
<mgdm> it's 'mgdm', and 'lo is short for hello
<redtape-renegade> I seem to remember you don't chat, long..
<mgdm> Heh
<mgdm> I'm more active elsewhere
<redtape-renegade> you tend to go elsewhere..
<redtape-renegade> mgmd, Any twitter -stories , today ?
 * redtape-renegade checks his twitter.feed...
<mgdm> Nothing hugely exciting that I've seen so far
<redtape-renegade> mgdm, Yeah, Let's face it Mondays are as dead as Win95 https://twitter.com/Bfly1972/status/313614582600069120  What's your handle on twitter ?
<mgdm> predictably, 'mgdm'
 * redtape-renegade scans 4 mgdm 
 * mgdm observes a follow notification
<redtape-renegade> Yep.. indeedie do.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> server hdd died on me today :(
<knightwise> hey everyone
 * redtape-renegade adds Salt to his irish stew and White pepper.
<redtape-renegade> MMMmm Lovely-jubly.
<Guest27800> /quit
 * redtape-renegade looks at 'processing' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBV14-3LT-g
<redtape-renegade> davmor2, I ?think when you see a spinning disk happening to make *click noises* you know it's going too fast :D [chortle,chortle] ::   http://bit.ly/Z95DaN
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, pimg
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, ping
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: he may in fact be working, if it's that urgent fire him an email
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, Will do | I'm an idiot, :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> redtape-renegade: He is rather busy.
<AlanBell> I was busy eating soup
<popey> s/eating/drinking/
<directhex> consuming
<directhex> ingesting?
<AlanBell> I used a spoon
<AlanBell> lentils and chilli stuff
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVEHqwLVvpI
<czajkowski> ohh new dr. who soon :) loving the new trailer for it
<redtape-renegade> Haha , | but I was hopeing for this popey http://instagram.com/p/W_4akPo0y0/  | No, AlanBell, you got my message on #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Brilliant .. do they arrive before or after St. Georges day usually ?
<directhex> redtape-renegade, at times it can be hard to track what you're talking about, from message to message.
<redtape-renegade> directhex, popey worse on youtube ^#6^
<redtape-renegade> directhex, Sometime's you'd have to thnk, sometimes you have to lol  .
<ali1234> sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you
<popey> I agree with directhex
<popey> it's like we're getting every 5th line that redtape-renegade types
<directhex> or some subset of lines he thinks, received out of order
<directhex> bloody UDP
 * redtape-renegade listens to popey & the hex fella
<redtape-renegade> Right OK, I will do a test ..
<redtape-renegade> How's this one .. ?
<redtape-renegade> ...
<redtape-renegade> ..
<redtape-renegade> .
<redtape-renegade>   czajkowski .. FYI | James Nesbitt's got a thing on Ireland @8pm tonight.. if you want to set a postit-alarm .. No hard feelings about the Rugby :)  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2293435/Monroe-star-James-Nesbitt-TV-odyssey-round-land-birth-shatter-old-clich-s.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
<redtape-renegade> BRBack with your feedback about it ^
<czajkowski> hands up people who is in London in this channel I need a hand :)
<jpds> czajkowski: I'm kind of using both of mine at the moment.
<czajkowski> jpds: hush you
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, I'm not in london, but have you tried www.192.com    ?
<czajkowski> plan B anyone close to london that would consider going to london for an hour of user testing
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: you're about 2 seconds away from being /ignore by me
<czajkowski> daubers: fancy some User testing
<popey> \o/
 * popey has a licorice log
<popey> (no, I don't need a doctor)
<mungbean> you'll lose your teeth
<mungbean> at 50
<mungbean> but itll be worth it popey
<popey> was yum
<directhex> i tend to eat blocks of marzipan
<czajkowski> I remember the licorice pipe we used to get with some red sprinkles on the bottom so it looked like a pipe
<directhex> i get one for xmas, finish it by new year
<redtape-renegade> i get blackjack chew bars for Xmas.
<mgdm> blech, marzipan - I hate even the thought of it
<redtape-renegade> MMMmm Smarties big tubes are always reduced after xmas .. still got mine :D
<^aDaM> Evenings all
 * popey blames Daviey for bug 1156223
<lubotu3> bug 1156223 in postfix (Ubuntu) "package postfix 2.10.0-2 failed to install/upgrade: Unterprozess installiertes post-installation-Skript gab den Fehlerwert 1 zurÃ¼ck" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156223
<ikonia> directhex: ping-a-tron
<directhex> ikonia, pang
<ikonia> need some tedious info, can I nudge you across a PM
<directhex> hang on, let me get you a W-931 request form for that
<ikonia> I'll get a blood sample ready
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1234131468/machine-of-death-the-game-of-creative-assassinatio !
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: The Machine of Death just needs a drop of blood.. and it'll tell you how you die.
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: And then there's a card game around getting that to actually (not) happen :)
 * MartijnVdS backed it
<MartijnVdS> Hmm @ goals:
<MartijnVdS> $450,000 = PROJECT CANCELLED
<MartijnVdS> $450,100 = Project's back on
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, How much did you pledge ?
<MartijnVdS> $25 + non-US shipping bonus = $35
<MartijnVdS> Woo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-44ARJKcSGM is back
<popey> I am 12 what is this
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's John Green playing FIFA and making up back stories for the players :)
<popey> whois John Green?
<MartijnVdS> popey: and having viewers come up with new names
<MartijnVdS> popey: author, youtube famous (youtube.com/vlogbrothers)
<popey> I find it hard watching people like that who talk fast and erratically
<MartijnVdS> on that video, or one of the vlogbrothers ones?
<MartijnVdS> or in general
<popey> in general
<MartijnVdS> He doesn't do it in his books ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: (for instance, http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007Z8ZKS2)
<andrewebdev> Hi guys. There used to be courses on the ubuntu store. Which I cannot find anymore. Where can I do a proper course to learn ubuntu server? What I'm looking for is proper training in dev-ops. (I'm a web developer and want to learn more about the environment I'm hositng on, and would like to get into things like Juju)
 * popey adds to wishlist
<popey> andrewebdev: that course is probably way outdated now
<mgdm> andrewebdev: the LPI stuff might be worth looking into - the old Ubuntu course was based on that, I think
<MartijnVdS> popey: "gifting is not yet offered in the Kindle store"
<mgdm> andrewebdev: https://www.lpi.org/
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: 'twas
<popey> andrewebdev: jcastro is the juju guy
<popey> he might know
<andrewebdev> thx mgdm, I found that via google just after you mentioned it :)
<popey> if you join #ubuntu-community-team they may have some suggestions
<mgdm> I'd not heard of Juju before
<andrewebdev> juju is my biggest interest really
<czajkowski> they seem to do juju stuff in the states at events, not seen anything in EU
<czajkowski> https://juju.ubuntu.com/
<andrewebdev> I want to try and move my entire dev/deployment workflow over to juju
<andrewebdev> but at the same time I do need to know more about server stuff
<andrewebdev> thx popey, will ask in that channel
<AlanBell> looks like gnome-shell has gone back to a window switcher for alt-tab rather than an application switcher
<AlanBell> alt+` gets you to the application level switcher
<AlanBell> this is excellent
<SuperEngineer> just [temporarily] enabled backports & proposed again.  There it was, my wish come true.
<SuperEngineer> Gwibber updates - get it out of proposed & into Precise release... it works!
<mungbean> gwibber - thats a blast from the past
<SuperEngineer> yeh - guess so if uyou love facebook! i don't [but daughter does
<mungbean> last time i used it, it only showed 30% of facebook updates
<mungbean> but that was 3 years ago
<SuperEngineer> I keep an eye via Gwibber... saves me using fb proper... recently it lost full api access
<mungbean> i need to learn a cli for extracing photos. shotwell sucks
<SuperEngineer> ...back again now ;)
 * redtape-renegade swats a fly:                                         /Â°
<redtape-renegade> I've tried this Add-on for Foxy , but it seems to max my CPU pretty quickly.| Anyone else had that problem ? http://bit.ly/XlyBVL : they got an update recently :| https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/collusion/
<BiggerRedS> mungbean, a CLI tool for doing what to images?
<czajkowski> evening folks
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<czajkowski> BigRedS: boo
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, BigRedS  Do you think this is a step in the right direction AFas training ?  |   http://thingsquare.com/training/
<czajkowski> right direction of what?
<redtape-renegade> training for hardware..
<czajkowski> I've no idea about hardware sorry
<BiggerRedS> That first stock photo puts me off
<BiggerRedS> Upgrading my system to the point where report-bug would let me file a bug tipped us over our monthly download limit :(
<BiggerRedS> I *knew* just ranting all over the internet was the better plan
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-19
<redtape-renegade> Dr Who fans    :|  http://hackaday.com/2013/03/16/sonic-screwdriver-meets-tv-b-gone/   this one's for you , np.
<mungbean> thought everyone was in bed
<redtape-renegade> mungbean, I am, now.
<redtape-renegade> popey, Looks like the snows melted in GB http://popey.com/webcam/     |      TheOpenSourcerer, Hi-di-hi
<redtape-renegade>  ooh, The miracle survivor is on tonight at 10pm on More 4   I t's  a  m i r a c l e | http://www.channel4.com/programmes/911-the-miracle-survivor
<redtape-renegade> Has anybody tried www.liftshare.com/uk/   at all  ?
<kvarley> Very useful command: find [path] -printf '%m %p\n'
<kvarley> Prints permissions in a numerical format :)
<jacobw> Morning
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, Hi there, nice chat @ the weekend | I'm wondering if you poss. have a Kodak printer and if you know if the ink is worth it ? | http://www.tigerdirect.com/sectors/category/deal-of-the-day.asp?
<directhex> kodak ink is super expensive iirc
<directhex> also, poor linux support
<redtape-renegade> i.e. will this use cups with ubuntu ?
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: I currently have no printers, they've all died. I'm looking to buy 2 printers at the moment.
<kvarley> I'm looking for 2 colour inkjet printers that have flawless Linux support and that have separate colour cartridges.
<redtape-renegade> Ohh. we have a nice one at the office if you'd like it, to go ?
<kvarley> They're not for me :) for other people
<redtape-renegade> S0ooo you don't want  it, right ?
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: No, ty
<redtape-renegade> directhex, I don't why you keep doing-a-downer on everything I say [have you got a narcissistic side or something ??] about saving money !       | If you look at #3 on their website ::: http://www.kodak.co.uk/ek/GB/en/printer-faq.htm?utm_source=www.kodak.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=well1-IJupdate_022413&utm_campaign=Corp-Homepage     :; THEY SAY , that they are the cheapest, ink, in the industry ?  Wats your problem, matey ?
<directhex> i've worked retail, selling printers to people. Nobody who bought a Kodak came back happy. Perhaps things have changed since then.
<popey> my mum has a kodak printer, doesn't work with her 12.04 ubuntu system â¹
<SuperMatt> popey: get the drivers into raring then ;)
<popey> what drivers â¹
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> darn it
<SuperMatt> I really don't think that home printing is cost effective
<popey> its fine for black and white on lasers
<popey> inkjets suck donkeys
<SuperMatt> they do indeed
<SuperMatt> there's nothing worse than trying to print to find all the heads are jammed with dried ink
<popey> i went to asda to print a photo I had on my iphone recently. You can plug your phone in, download pics and print them
<popey> unfortunately I didn't have my iphone cable with me â¹
<redtape-renegade> directhex, Give me one e.g. of a Kodak printer you sold ion a retail shop, Plz ?
<czajkowski> all the boots places have iphone cables no android :(
<redtape-renegade> **in
<popey> however the photo booth supports printing directly from facebook!
<popey> So standing in the store I uploaded the photo over 3g to my facebook account, and set visibility to only me, then logged into my fb account on the photo machine
<popey> (which was worrying)
<popey> it showed the picture, printed it, logged out of facebook
<popey> worked rather well
<czajkowski> handy
<redtape-renegade> How much was that photo print-out ?
<directhex> redtape-renegade, you want me to tell you a model of printer sold in pc world in 2003?
<redtape-renegade> directhex, PC World ? Do you still get discounts ?
<directhex> redtape-renegade, no. i worked there one summer as a student.
<redtape-renegade> directhex, What was your salary @ PC World ?
<Laney> O_O
<popey> redtape-renegade: can't remember
<popey> pence
<redtape-renegade> Who am I talking to here ? | popey or, directhex  ??
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<directhex> redtape-renegade, sallary is for full-time employees. my wage was somewhere around minimum wage.
<popey> well given I just explained that I got a printout, and then you asked how much was the photo printout, I thought that question was aimed at me, other questions aimed at directhex seemed to have his name in
<redtape-renegade> directhex, That's only Â£600.. did you get any perks or freebies ?
<redtape-renegade> popey, soz you took a while to get back to me.  â¹ No harm done. | Keep calm, install ubuntu
<popey> wat
<redtape-renegade> popey, a coupl of pence for a print-out is a steal. well done !
<redtape-renegade> **couple of..
<redtape-renegade> directhex, I calculate That's only Â£600.. did you get any perks or freebies at PC World ?
<directhex> redtape-renegade, er, some small level of staff discount
<directhex> plus commission, occasionally
<redtape-renegade> And what did you buy with the discount at PC World ?
 * redtape-renegade notes Curry's have devastated in IOMan computer retail park.
<directhex> some speakers, iirc?
<redtape-renegade> And whatr did you think of the Kodak link I gave you at 09:17 . | Do you think it is correct ?#
<redtape-renegade> http://www.kodak.co.uk/ek/GB/en/printer-faq.htm?utm_source=www.kodak.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=well1-IJupdate_022413&utm_campaign=Corp-Homepage
<directhex> i think i wouldn't buy a kodak. YMMV.
<popey> my mum bought a digital camera off amazon recently, some samsung thing.. it refuses to power on, i helped her return it, which was stupidly simple
<popey> I do like returning things to amazon
<directhex> i don't
<directhex> my last return sucked
<popey> was it amazon or a marketplace seller tho?
<directhex> amazon
<popey> erk
<nperry>   The last time I sent something back to amazon, I took it to the nearest collect+ place at 1330 and by 1800 they had sent me an email saying the refund was on its way.
<directhex> tl;dr: baby food steamer broke within 3 months, manufacturer said return it for a replacement. amazon refunded purchase price instead. except we'd bought it for half price in a sale, so a refund was the worst outcome ever
<nperry> I checked and it was still sat the shop.
<nperry> The next day the money appeared in my bank account :/
<czajkowski> I've found them pretty good when dealing with stuff at xmas from stuff that never arrived to stuff that arrived that was not for me, either I got a refund straight away or was told keep the other stuff.
<czajkowski> shall be doing all of next years xmas shopping on there again
<redtape-renegade> popey, a marketplace seller ? Like Dragonmarts Co. Ltd. | I guess they sub-contract .. on ebay aswell-as Amazon :  http://goo.gl/9wkCC
<nperry> I did pretty much all my shopping on amazon...
<nperry> I did have a comment from the postman "You seem to order a lot of things from amazon"
<redtape-renegade> nperry, Have you found it hard doing a Wishlist yet on www.amazon.co.uk ?
<BigRedS> Amazon wishlists are brilliant
<BigRedS> Every time I want something and can't justify buying it I stick it on my wishlist
<BigRedS> and then when people want to buy me a present they actually end up getting me something I want
<popey> heh, same here
<popey> my birthday is coming up, so I just updated my wishlist
 * Laney just started reading Shut Up & Sit Down so started a board games wishlist â¥
<nperry> To be honest I've never setup a wishlist.. but I do know people how have just had a wishlist as a wedding list.
<nperry> *who
<nperry> I give up typing.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
 * redtape-renegade looks at thecomplaintsboard posted at 09:57am
<redtape-renegade> I do like the spell checker ... |   http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/dragonmarts-company-uxcell-c582227.html   | popey, At the bottom:   is that just a javascript  ?
 * popey has no idea
<nperry> Right click and view page source :\
<redtape-renegade> nperry, I'm a code lion !  |  http://www.complaintsboard.com/scripts/jquery.spellchecker.js
 * redtape-renegade tells his inner animal to STFudU !
<popey> bug 1157114 is grinding my gears
<lubotu3> bug 1157114 in compiz (Ubuntu) "corruption making desktop unusable after docking/undocking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157114
<SuperMatt> yowzer
<SuperMatt> not pretty
<davmor2> Morning all
<kvarley> What's a sane price to pay for a SSL certificate?
<SuperMatt> I found a place that does them for free...
<SuperMatt> http://www.startssl.com/
<SuperMatt> those guys
<SuperMatt> but if you want it for business, it's worth forking out, I guess
<kvarley> When ordering SSL do I order it for www.example.com or example.com ?
<jpds> kvarley: *.example.com
<kvarley> jpds: I'm not buying wildcard ssl
<jpds> kvarley: You should really have Apache/whatever redirect example.com to www.example.com.
<kvarley> jpds: Can I redirect the other way round?
<jpds> kvarley: That sounds nasty.
<kvarley> jpds: Ok, I'll order for www.example.com and then redirect non-www traffic to www
<jpds> bbc.co.uk goes to www.bbc.co.uk.
<jpds> sis.gov.uk - still doesn't work.
 * redtape-renegade realizes the postman has dropped off the www.nisbets.co.uk catalogue to his address instead of the Take-away next door and wonders if there is a reward to give it back ?
<redtape-renegade> Nice British company | At least they're 30 years old !
<Myrtti> we get Nisbets catalogue because we've ordered from them.
<Myrtti> Nice citrus squeezers and frying pans.
<kvarley> Probably a stupid question since Apple are so proprietary minded - but can I open iMovie 11 projects on Linux?
<xnox> kvarley: probably not, but I bet it's just a folder such that you should be able to browse for the video snippets inside it.
<kvarley> xnox: Ah yes, you're right but they're encoded using a weird video format
<kvarley> Because Apple like to be difficult in every way imaginable
<shauno> it's usually either DV or h264.  one because it was the native capture format for a long time, and the other because it benefits from a lot of hardware acceleration
<Laney> some guys have turned up to hack bits off my lovely tree
<popey> Laney: have you made them tea?
<Laney> no, they didn't come and say hi
<popey> outrage
<Laney> so they got to watch me eating a poached egg sandwich
<popey> I'd pay extra for that.
<popey> egg banjo as cied calls them
<Laney> oh, it was messy
<Laney> yolk... everywhere...
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey - I haz a new(er) Volvo V70
<popey> oooh
<popey> how new?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£2k
<popey> nice!
<TheOpenSourcerer> 51 plate
<popey> bar-gain
<popey> hah, same as mine
<popey> petrol or taxi?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2.4 Turbo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very clean
<TheOpenSourcerer> Petrol
<popey> how many furlongs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very similar to my old one. Photos to follow.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 132k
<popey> similar to mine
<popey> is it an SE? leather etc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> All Leather, loads of toys :-)
<popey> âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> More than my old one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Heated seats
<popey> ooh, mine doesnt have that
<popey> but i always feel like I've shit my pants in a car with heated seats
<mungbean> any regular get_iplayer users know how i can download programmes directly as mpeg-4 enclosed in avi?
<brobostigon> Mar 19 15:25:40 raspberrypi motion: [1] config image height (232) is not modulo 16
<brobostigon> any ideas what that error output from motion means?
<brobostigon> mungbean: install ffmpeg.
<popey> mungbean: surely you can only download what they put out, which is always h.264 isn't it?
<popey> and then convert as brobostigon says with ffmpeg / libav
<mungbean> the documentation isn't great for get_ipplayer, but it seems you can ask it to spawn ffmpeg to convert for you , right?
<popey> it does by default
<popey> to change the container from .flv to .mp4 iirc
<popey> not used it for a while
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: See G+ for totally uninteresting pictures
<brobostigon> yep. install ffmpeg, and get-iplayer will do it automatically.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: nice âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like the fact they're the same colour! New one has cream leather. Old one was black
<brobostigon> nice car.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a lot of car for Â£2k brobostigon
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: definatly, yes, :)
<popey> I'd be tempted to get another when mine dies
<popey> dashboard is dead on mine â¹
 * brobostigon continues searching for that error.
<mungbean> brobostigon: sorry, bit confused, got any examples?
<TheOpenSourcerer> we decided to not make a big decision yet. This should do us for a while until we can finally make up our minds on what we really should do.
<popey> wise
<brobostigon> mungbean: for example. yesterday i pulled an ep of dr who with get-iplayer, i had ffmpeg installed, so get-iplayer did the conversion an ended up with a *mp4.
<mungbean> brobostigon: got the command in your history please?
<brobostigon> mungbean: moment.
<mungbean> cheers
<mungbean> just had a baby and surviving on zero sleep and cannot do any brain work
<popey> mungbean: you dont have to explicitly ask it to, if it finds ffmpeg it does it
<mungbean> my dvd player accepts .avi files in mpeg-4 format
<brobostigon> yep, "get-iplayer --nopurge --get 281"
<mungbean> wow, that's it?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> that wont get hd tho
<popey> not that you need it with your telly :D
<brobostigon> quite, :)
<mungbean> ah, i'm coming up against my usual ffmpeg problem
<mungbean> This program is only provided for compatibility and will be removed in a future release. Please use avconv instead.
<mungbean> Unknown encoder 'libmp3lame'
<mungbean> whic halways yields out of date info about whether ubuntu ffmpeg is supporting mp3 or not :(
<popey> there's a libavcodec* package
<popey> and one called libavcodec*-extras
<mungbean> Package libavcodec-extra-52 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<mungbean> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<mungbean> is only available from another source
<mungbean> E: Package 'libavcodec-extra-52' has no installation candidate
<popey> what version of ubuntu?
<mungbean> 1204
<popey> it's -53
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise-updates/libavcodec-extra-53
<mungbean> just realised i was copying an old suggestion :(
<mungbean> 53 is working thanks
<mungbean> tries again...
<mungbean> \o/ thanks
<popey> note that it depends on liblame.. which fixes your mp3 issue
<mungbean> i had libavcodec53 not extra..
<mungbean> and liblame was installed
<popey> interesting
<mungbean> but ffmpeg seems to be working
<popey> well, ffmpeg wouldn't have used it unless you have extra i think
<popey> silly encumbered codecs
<brobostigon> is there a way, of getting the direct setting, like the camera output res etc, from console. ?
<mungbean> maybe gphoto?
<popey> oooh http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1337440
<popey> hadn't heard of streamer before
<popey> looks handy
<brobostigon> mungbean: gphoto does no work form terminal, it is a X prog.
<brobostigon> from*
<mungbean> theres a cli - gphoto2?
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<mungbean> was looking at it to maybe speed up photo transfer to my machine because for certain cameras it supports getting only new files
<mungbean> but it doesn't tell you which cameras
<brobostigon> mungbean: does it work with webcams?
<brobostigon> mungbean: as it seems to be still cameras only.
<mungbean> ah, i saw camera
<mungbean> didn't realise webcam
<brobostigon> mungbean: yes, i was refferring to the error i was talking about earlier.
<redtape-renegade> Just so I know ...
<redtape-renegade> whoopsie wrong channel .XD
<redtape-renegade> Waaaaaugh , Ive eaten too many cookies, today.
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, pingy
<redtape-renegade> RyanAir have bought 175x Boeing 737's for 12 Million .. largest aircraft order in history  .. wonder if they will land in ManxLand, like Easyjet do ?
<redtape-renegade> **12 Billion (slight error there) .. nice hostess I **** once.
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: just because you *** out doesnt mean we dont know what you are talking about
<czajkowski> mind watching the language there please redtape-renegade
 * redtape-renegade mutes himself.  The TA will be next.
<shauno> curious fellow
<czajkowski> *sigh*
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> on a lighter note
 * Laney considers going to latitude festival this summer
<Laney> \o/
<mungbean> :( my dvd player still isn't accepting my ffmpeg'd mpeg4 .avi files :(
<mungbean> if its gonna be that fussy at playing files they should at least provide documentation
<Azelphur> Anyone here happen to have an Alienware M15x?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apparently not
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> seems my brother has bricked his
<Azelphur> bad bios update, won't turn on at all, no lights, no nothing.
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Find the flash chip, attach in-circuit programmer? ;)
<Azelphur> haha, beyond me
 * awilkins hates launchpad build queue priorities
<awilkins> (but only when they affect me personally)
<redtape-renegade> More 4 won't play Live in my chromium browser ( I just registered with my gmail) .... Is there anything I need to know about that , to getn it to work ??
<redtape-renegade> **that, to get it to work ?
<redtape-renegade> ** I've also tried it in FFox to the same result..
<redtape-renegade> Oh, It says now that I have insufficient bandwidth speed .. Well that a pound a day for internet down the tubes then .. it's usually over a Megabit a minute.
<shauno> I recently discovered I can 'trick' 150mbit out of mine.  it seems like a rather broken behaviour though
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-20
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> Morning
<JamesTait> Happy World Sparrow Day, everyone! :-D
<redtape-renegade> JamesTait, I'm trying to get rid of a mob of chaffinches by studying what they can eat. Que my one and only crud link of the day .... :l
<redtape-renegade> http://goo.gl/jmTC0
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, a cat would probably get rid of them for you. ;)
<ali1234> is there a way to make a shell script bail out at the first error?
<ali1234> like put && between every command, except without doing that
<SuperMatt> create a bash script which checks exit statuses and exits if they fail?
<ali1234> that's the same as putting && between every line...
<ali1234> the right answer is set -e apparently
<redtape-renegade> ali1234, Have you had any trouble with a 'Shuutle' HTPC in your buying of computers ? Are they prone to not working after a couple of years ?
<redtape-renegade> **'Shuttle-PC's'
<redtape-renegade> .. BRBack...
<ali1234> redtape-renegade: funny you should ask that
<ali1234> yes, i have had lots f problems with those damn things
<ali1234> dead PSU, dead graphics...
<ali1234> they overheat like crazy
<ali1234> i have not used them for about 5 years though
<ali1234> maybe they solved all those problems
<davmor2> morning all
<directhex> i wanted a shuttle, when i was youngert
<directhex> and my wife's old pc was a shuttle. no overheating issues
<ali1234> bought 7 of them for work and 5 of them died inside 3 years
<ali1234> they were different models too
<directhex> mmm, never had a problem.
<directhex> core 2 duo e6850, and some single-slot geforce i forget the model of. 8800gt?
<ali1234> the two that lived were the one i used as a linux machine and the one that was running moonwall firewall for the office
<ali1234> this was back in like pentium 4 days
<ali1234> though they had celerons in them
<andylockran> howdy
<Wobbo> hoe verwijder ik een hele serie. Ik wil van Rhythmbox een update gedaan van extern, maar die wil ik er vannaf.
<SuperMatt> huh?
<shauno> !nl
<lubotu3> Nederlandstalige ondersteuning voor Ubuntu (en vers gezette koffie) is te vinden in #ubuntu-nl
<Wobbo> Sorry
<shauno> I've tried speaking dutch, they laughed at me :(
<SuperMatt> we would never do anything like that!
<shauno> hah, I don't mean here :)
<SuperMatt> oh right
<shauno> but apparently speaking dutch with english phenomes comes out worse than franglais
<shauno> not sure I have the right word there, but I know what I mean
<SuperMatt> I know what you mean
<shauno> phonemes, apparently.  but I was more concerned I'd confused it with pheromones, which would be awkward
<SuperMatt> that would be bad
<shauno> but I seem to have the same problem with most languages.  I'm terrible at replicating sounds
<shauno> and it seems to be a terribly english problem.  we're taught from a very early age that impersonating someone's accent is offensive
<SuperMatt> FOSS World Problems: The new Ubuntu backgrounds have landed, but my screen is so cluttered today that I can't see them :(
<Laney> \o/ no more beer duty escalator
<Laney> TO THE PUB
<popey> +1
<SuperMatt> beer duty escalator?
<Laney> automatic above inflation increases in beer duty
<SuperMatt> aha!
<SuperMatt> TO THE PUB!
 * popey wonders if ali1234 fancies taking on bug 1157710 :D
<lubotu3> bug 1157710 in Phablet Tools "phablet-flash needs a cleanup option to remove old images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157710
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1p off beer :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Corp Tax. down :-)
<Laney> this deputy speaker is great
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have the sound off at the mo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think Milliband is T"Â£$%^&*( though.
<dwatkins> $%&#Ã¢ÂÂ¬.... carrier lost
 * redtape-renegade wakes up and has his last white chip chop giant cookie ..  the monster he is.
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, Hi there ..
<redtape-renegade> Anyone near a certain , cambridge  ?? http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/watch-libreplanet-live-this-weekend
<popey> Cambridge, MA. Not Cambridge UK.
<popey> you may want to go to #libreplanet and let them know their blog post might want to specify a country or state
<redtape-renegade> damn posted a second crud WebLink ! .. popey, please give me a slap.  | I cant believe I read that.
<redtape-renegade> It's ok ; the cleaner slapped me this morning after I joked with her : " Oh, and the hoover needs a clean :) "  .. first slap off an old womann in 5 years !
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, pingywingy.
<shauno> ou won't want to miss highlights like: Free Software Foundation president Richard Stallman presenting the 2012 Free Software Awards
<shauno> I think the less I say there, the better
<directhex> i'll say them!
<directhex> rms is a boor and a bore!
<redtape-renegade> shauno,  I meet these guys on IRC from America .. as it's Pennsylvania  I know they will be going http://youtu.be/A4A2JTYBoPk?t=8m3s
<redtape-renegade> bit of a mess over there at the moment.
<redtape-renegade> *** met
<redtape-renegade> alan_g, Enjoy your beverage ?
<redtape-renegade> hi kvarley
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: \0
<alan_g> redtape-renegade: that is the point. ;)
 * redtape-renegade enjoys chocolate :: http://goo.gl/joozQ
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: sorry, was elsewhere in cyberspace
<ali1234> makefiles... can i override the metric used to determine age of dependencies?
<ali1234> like if i say foo: foo.c
<ali1234> the rules triggers is foo is older than foo.c
<ali1234> but suppose i say foo: foo.git and i want to rebuild foo if it is older than the last commit on foo.git
<redtape-renegade> ali1234, Quick question: What was thev firefox add-on you said to use to download youtube videos with ?
<redtape-renegade> **the.. firefox addon
<ali1234> http://www.downloadhelper.net/
<redtape-renegade> thankyou.
<redtape-renegade> popey, AAAAaaagh swapnil called Canonical " ungrateful " .. he's doing it again !   ||| http://www.muktware.com/5273/ubuntu-touch-is-more-android-than-ubuntu
<directhex> muktware is... not a great source of well-thought out articles
<directhex> i'm not a fan of their work
<popey> he didnt write that
<redtape-renegade> He questioned how 'gratefull' they are http://paste.ubuntu.com/5631625/ popey, What are you up to at momemt ?
<popey> no. he didn't
<redtape-renegade> he chose the challenging words.
<directhex> C. Anthony Espo did. look at the top.
<directhex> but i don't think the individual makes much difference, the whole site is toxic IMHO.
<popey> indeed
<popey> C. Anthony Esposito
<Azelphur> OT question, how would I go about finding a solicitor to do with rental / repairs?
<redtape-renegade> I know some crap solicitors .. Azelphur : : www.solicitorsfromhell.net/
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> I'd probably ask on MSE or similar forums
 * redtape-renegade googles the Macedonian Stock Exchange.
<ali1234> replies on that post are trololol
<redtape-renegade> ali1234, What name do you use on disqus , then ?
<ali1234> i use my real name
<redtape-renegade> ali1234, What name do you use on disqus , then ?
<ali1234> i'm not replying to that mess
<ali1234> i don't even know where to start. literally everyone posting there has no clue or is trolling
<ali1234> and as usual it is impossible to tell which is which
<redtape-renegade> is it ?
<ali1234> well except the canonical employees. you have to assume they know what they are talking about which basically leaves one alternative
<redtape-renegade> S0o you only listen to the gospel according to Canonical :|
<ali1234> ha
<redtape-renegade> thankyou for the add-on BTWay .. I'm listening to czaj. on vlc now.
<redtape-renegade> Apparently there is going to be a youtu.be of how to write manuals for Ubuntu.
<redtape-renegade> organised by jono , the community leadership team and documentation team.
<ali1234> lol
<Laney> Azelphur: shelter might be able to put you onto one?
<redtape-renegade> I like shelter Laney.
<redtape-renegade> they gave me free porridge in 1996 in London.
<Laney> they're a good bunch
<redtape-renegade> yep, I can tell you the story if you like ?
<czajkowski> redtape-renegade: well  we're going to try and see if we can the docs up to date so it's easier to get involved
<czajkowski> and yes czaj is on highlight
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, Is that for another meeting, or is there a launchpad team ? I'd love to know.
<czajkowski> there is the docs team
<czajkowski> and there will be a meeting soon so I suggest keeping an eye on planet
<redtape-renegade> or the fridge :)
<redtape-renegade> also IRC logs too. :|
<czajkowski> the fridge posts to the planet :)
<redtape-renegade> OT: Cost of a pint goes down by a penny on Sunday :D
<MartijnVdS> oh they're adding more water to the beer?
<popey> \o/ Just showed Sophie how to do loops in Python
<MartijnVdS> cool! :)
<shauno> I think I need a new career.  your daughter is now more proficient in python than I am!
<MartijnVdS> how long until she's a contributor to Ubuntu code? :)
<popey> just bought her a book on scratch programming, going to get her doing that for principles
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, It's budgeted is beer .. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-2013-price-of-beer-cut-by-1p-fuel-duty-rise-is-scrapped-and-no-income-tax-on-first-10k-of-earnings-8542360.html
<kvarley> popey: You're a dream parent
<popey> lol
<mungbean> my laptop which used to suspend ok, no logner suspends - just freezes on blank dark screen when clicking suspend - intel graphics - any ideas?
<popey> can you ping it?
<mungbean> i suspect not, since ctrl-alt-f1 etc don't work
<BigRedS_> what's that got to do with pinging
<mungbean> BigRedS: because the system is frozen
<mungbean> and not responding
<mungbean> will try anyway though
<BigRedS> no, the GUI is frozen and not responding. I've many times had X crash such that ctrl-alt-f? doesn't work but sshing in does
<BigRedS> not for a long time, admittedly
<Myrtti> popey: first reports of US people getting their Nabee Socks *yipyip*
<Azelphur> Laney: yea that's what I should do, I've already talked to them so I should ask them to refer me
<mungbean> is mencoder equivalent to ffmpeg for conversion/remuxing?
<mungbean> or is one preferred over the other
<ali1234> mungbean: no, and no
<ali1234> also doesn't ubuntu use libav these days?
<mungbean> yes, let me rephrase then:
<mungbean> which is best way to convert iplayer .mp4 downloads to xvid on the CLI ?
<mungbean> on ubuntu
<directhex> xvid? retro!
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> i am compelled to use it
<ali1234> try them all and see which one actually works
<ali1234> every job is different
<ali1234> and every tool has it's own unusual quirks
<ali1234> video encoding is a huge mess :(
<mungbean> seems to be a minefield of undomcumented or new/obsoleted options
<mungbean> just converted a 40MB .mp4 to 100MB xvid
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> is this for a hardware player?
<ali1234> they are really picky
<ali1234> and they're all different
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> sucks a bundle
<SuperEngineer> Just confused Dr. Who... told him about podcasts that were live but aren't live any more... but were live, but not live at the the time of release
<daftykins> hey all :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daftykins> i'm finally back, in my new house
<SuperEngineer>  ...and when I tried to explain a rolling release with a stable tip... oh dear, hope he recovers in tim
<daftykins> VDSL2+ just got enabled this afternoon :O
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: only one more week (and a few days)
<daftykins> Attainable rate (kbit/s) 49876 down 20899 up
<daftykins> :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: so you have slightly less slow internet now? :)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> ~4MB/sec down
<MartijnVdS> *hmmm 100/100*
 * MartijnVdS hugs his fibre
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: it does me fine :) i was happy with 16Mb, 1.8MB/sec was great
<MartijnVdS> that.. might have come out wrong
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I can tell you, 9.8 *upload* is great too ;)
<daftykins> heh the line is fluctuating
<daftykins> yarr i'd love more upstream
<daftykins> but i'm at the mercy of my ISP :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you can still move to the Netherlands ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: naaaah i'm good with no snow
<MartijnVdS> I haven't seen snow in a week!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> we had two days of it, whole island closed down XD
<MartijnVdS> oh we do that too.. two flakes of snow? Emergency timetables for rail travel!
<MartijnVdS> 50% reduction in # of trains
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Uk doesn't need snow to produce a 50% reduction in # of trains - any excuse will do for us
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I've found train travel in the UK to be a bit strange
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: all those companies on the same line.. with different tickets
<MartijnVdS> how do you know which train to board?!
<MartijnVdS> "Ooh that <brand X> train is 5 minutes faster! But it leaves 10 minutes later.."
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: you lookat all the trains - you get on the one with a "buffet" [bar] ...&hope
<shauno> leaves.  mumble mumble leaves.  you should try commuting between cumbria and scotland.  between snow & wet leaves, the west coast line doesn't stand a chance
<SuperEngineer> shauno: I guess you hate Autumn snow in that case
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: do you mind if i PM you for a quick favour regarding what's showing on my IP?
<Azelphur> latest on my landlord tales is that he's now trying to evict me for forcing him to do repairs, which is of no surprise
<mungbean> ali1234: my experiments are showing similar quality when viewed on telly, but ffmpeg doubles the file size
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah no nm i'm all good
<SuperEngineer> Serious question - any ideas why kernel .39 showed in uodates, downloaded, installed?... but doesn't show as installed?
<mungbean> ali1234: using -ovc xvid -oac mp3lame -xvidencopts pass=1
<SuperEngineer> update grub proves still on .38
<SuperEngineer> synaptic says not not installed
<SuperEngineer> [using 12.04]
<SuperEngineer> & .39 installed on acer netbook and hp mini? /me confused
<SuperEngineer> [I'll take the silence as *no idea* then]
<daftykins> what's in /boot ?
<daftykins> are they both there?
 * SuperEngineer checks
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: no - .37 & .38 only
<daftykins> sounds like if there really was a .39 that went on, it didn't
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<SuperEngineer> but update thinks it did :(
<daftykins> 'sudo apt-get -f install' do anything?
<daftykins> is it possible the -39 was a package version rather than the kernel version? not that that's likely
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: agreed - .39 kernwl successfuully installed on 2 other pooters
<SuperEngineer> ..what is the -f option?
 * SuperEngineer checks options
<SuperEngineer> ah...l now I see the logic
<SuperEngineer> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 * SuperEngineer confused
<SuperEngineer> would it be wise to force a manual install?
<daftykins> no reason not to apt-get install linux-image-x.x.x-y-generic say
<daftykins> but it's comfier just to apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade imo ^_^
<SuperEngineer> will try that one - thanks
<SuperEngineer> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
<SuperEngineer> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
<SuperEngineer> hmmm...
<daftykins> is that with sudo?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<daftykins> have you got another package manager active?
<daftykins> like a GUI software manager / etc if it's a desktop, or another terminal going?
<SuperEngineer> no.. that's why confused
<SuperEngineer> maybe time to do a reboot and try methinks
<SuperEngineer> bbs
 * redtape-renegade flees off to the shops for FANTA & chews.
<popey> welcome back daftykins
<SuperEngineer> nah - decided not to install 3.3.0-39 kernel onthis machine... synaptic gives warnings
<SuperEngineer> ...seems to be mor suited to 32bit architecture
<SuperEngineer> [accounts for whty installed on nertbook & mini] but not this pooter
<SuperEngineer> *netbook
<SuperEngineer> ...congrats to all those who built in pre-checks ;)
<SuperEngineer> oh - please sub 3.3 for 3.2 - doh!
<SuperEngineer> Interesting email from Steam support telling ne how to go update a video driver in Ubuntu :D
<SuperEngineer> ... the bug I reported was unfortunately about the latest driver killing 'X' - lol
<SuperEngineer> ..so that's how you get around a bug confirmed by others as well - pretend they don't even even know the basics... made I smile!
<gurnemanz> openbravo
<SuperMatt> woo! 25 second boot time :)
<SuperEngineer> pleasing thought time - there are more bugs discovered in a rain forest every year than ever found in a linux distro
<BigRedS> hahaha
 * Laney books his first full price train ticket (ever?) and weeps
<brobostigon> first class ?
<Laney> no, that would have been insane
<czajkowski> Laney: are you coming down to London
<Laney> yes
<Laney> friday
<czajkowski> this friday?
<Laney> aye
<czajkowski> boo
<Laney> currently thinking I'll head to the office for the aft
 * redtape-renegade hears Jimmy.
<popey> Laney: are you going to use the bug to point out the obvious "It's asking me a yes or no question with no yes or no buttons"?
<popey> (that's the single thing that has been pointed out to me N times where N>1)
<Laney> I just subscribed you to one I filed
<popey> THANK YOU.
<popey> oh look. more mail.
<Laney> use your Kloutâ¢ to get it fixed
 * Laney heads up the wooden hill to bedford
<popey> \o/ I opted out of Kloutâ¢ to prevent exactly these situations.
<directhex> Kloutâ¢ is broken today, so i cannot verify statements regarding your Kloutâ¢ Scoreâ¢
<popey> \o/ new bug
<popey> Anyone using the experimental ppa fancy reproducing bug 1158021
<lubotu3> bug 1158021 in Unity "Launcher tooltips don't disappear when dash is open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158021
<popey> bah, and another
<popey> bug 1158025 is easy to reproduce
<lubotu3> bug 1158025 in Unity "Search term disappears sometimes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158025
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-21
<xnox> Laney: Klout thinks my name is ??????? ??????.
 * xnox loves having my name in UTF-8 on facebook and all APIs getting it wrong.
<daftykins> popey: ty sir!
<Oli> Why is nobody asleep?
<daftykins> Oli: i;m just in from the pub
<daftykins> which is why i can;t seem to hit apostrophe successfully =|
<daftykins> '''''
<daftykins> fs
<Oli> On a school night? Whatever will the neighbours say?
<daftykins> i threw caution to the wind long ago
<MartijnVdS> Pangolins! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzKFeAge3o4
<SuperMatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1158163, well there's my contribution to this cycle
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1158163 in Unity "Shutdown and Log Out dialogue button order needs tweaking" [Undecided,New]
<popey> it was already fixed SuperMatt
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/JXdSmjCzw9L
<redtape-renegade> just thought of a great idea for a program called "Advert Maker".
<redtape-renegade> morning guys.
<popey> morning
 * redtape-renegade writes the idea down in his "poss. programs 4 linux" before Sky steals it.
<popey> MartijnVdS: she's _adorable_
 * popey clicks subscribe
<redtape-renegade> popey, looks quite frosty in yar garden today.  I'll google .weather ..
<redtape-renegade> http://goo.gl/Kxl17
<redtape-renegade> or.....
<redtape-renegade> Farnham, United Kingdom: Mostly Cloudy, 38.5 F (3.6 C), 30.01(0), Feels Like: 35 F (2 C), From the NE at 4.6 MPH Gusting to 4.6 MPH - Last Updated on March 21, 8:13 AM GMT http://goo.gl/sY2GA
<popey> no frost.. http://popey.com/webcam/
<redtape-renegade> popey, but the green grass looks white to me >?
<popey> the webcam is low quality and everything has an odd tint
<redtape-renegade> ok , ok then.
<AlanBell> webcam has infrared sensors which are greyscale and that gets combined with the RGB visible light sensors
 * redtape-renegade has coffee with some condensed milk  ...
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/pad is also a bit white for the grass
<AlanBell> and the fence needs fixing
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, I'll have a look in 23.5 mins.
<popey> hey AlanBell when you going to make my camera do that stuff? âº
<redtape-renegade> .. and my wunderstation ?
<redtape-renegade> Well, todays different.
<redtape-renegade> I've just spent 5 mins in a heated discussion/barter to buy a park bench for Â£19GBP  ... and he was Bulgarian.
<redtape-renegade> First a mob of chaffinches .. then Uncle Bulgaia at the door, what next ?
<redtape-renegade> **Bulgaria
<redtape-renegade> Soz **Great Uncle Bulgaria  ..nice chappy.
<redtape-renegade> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wombles#Known_Wombles
<AlanBell> popey: https://launchpad.net/camcontrol
<AlanBell> camcontrol.py needs to be put on a webserver with mod_python
<popey> ooh!
<AlanBell> I might add the bits to let it be called from the command line
<AlanBell> it basically pokes at decoder_control.cgi on the camera for you
<popey> "This is messy"
<AlanBell> it is
<popey> thanks AlanBell, will play with that later
<redtape-renegade> ********************************************************************************************************4
<redtape-renegade> whoopsie .. put the netbook on the keyboard , soz
<redtape-renegade> leaves.
<SuperMatt> popey: when did that happen?
<redtape-renegade> I've found a good site to test Midori  video's , today :: http://www.topacousticsongs.com/videos/archive-2/
<redtape-renegade> What will you be doing
<redtape-renegade> ^ > ?
<SuperMatt> popey: ah, I see the issue! the lock button now needs to be moved to the other side
<Laney> xnox: to be fair, that's what my brain does when it sees your name too :P
<JamesTait> Happy World Down Syndrome Day, everyone! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just installed Google Keep on my S3 and looked at it in my Drive account. Don't think the Drive end is quite ready yet.
<redtape-renegade> JamesTait, Where do you get these "days", /again/  ??
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, wikipedia, mostly, though I knew about this one from other sources.
<redtape-renegade> JamesTait, I asked forwebLinks, .. ??
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, http://www.worlddownsyndromeday.org/
<redtape-renegade> thank-you.
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_21 for a list of others.
<popey> SuperMatt: no
<TheOpenSourcerer> Loved the news about Voyager 1 yesterday. Even though it hasn't really left the Solar System, the fascinating comment to me was "The next time the craft comes anywhere close to another star will be in 40,000 years" Just wow.
<popey> SuperMatt: logout and shutdown are on the right, lock and restart on the left
<SuperMatt> but I feel that lock should be on the right instead of logout
<popey> why?
<SuperMatt> I think people use lock a lot more, and because of the reason I've mentioned in my bug
<popey> if you chose "Log out" from the menu (which is what it's called"
<SuperMatt> I see what you mean
<popey> people don't use lock from that menu IMO
<SuperMatt> but I'm lookin at in terms of intention
<popey> whats the intention?
<popey> lock or logout?
<SuperMatt> the intent of shutdown is to walk away from your PC (most of the time), and that is also true of lock
<popey> if lock then you choose lock from the menu and it instantly locks
<popey> if you want to logout, choose logout
<SuperMatt> oh dang, I didn't spot that
<SuperMatt> you're right
<SuperMatt> for some reason I thought that lock button had disappeared
<ProfFalken> morning all :)
<ProfFalken> long time no see... :)
<popey> i dont think I've ever used that menu item
<popey> Ctrl+Alt+L is what I always use
<SuperMatt> I don't either
<popey> people vary though
<ProfFalken> I've got an issue with my graphics card (intel sandybridge built-in) on my laptop (acer aspire s3)
<redtape-renegade> On my Log Out menu it says " Save session for future logins" in Xubuntu .. what does that do popey, SuperMatt ??
<ProfFalken> I'm running quantal, I botched up the install of a new kernel by removing the wrrong initrd when trying to free up space in /boot
<ProfFalken> and now I'm stuck with my resolution at 1024x768 and can't modprobe i915 because it doesn't exist
<ProfFalken> can anyone help?
<popey> redtape-renegade: i dont use xubuntu, but I suspect it tries to build a list of what's running and restart those apps when you log back in
<popey> ProfFalken: reinstall the kernel?
<redtape-renegade> popey, Right, I will give it a go :)
<popey> ProfFalken: sudo apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-generic
<ProfFalken> oooh, have't tried the generic one, re-installed using linux-image-$(uname -r)...
 * ProfFalken tries it...
<popey> generic is a metapackage
<popey> will pull in the right linux-image-x.y.z
 * ProfFalken reboots to try it...
<ProfFalken> popey: you is a star! that works really well, thanks :)
<popey> yay
<smittix> Morning all
<redtape-renegade> OOh The window cleaners are around :| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0E7IFM3GJc
<kvarley> Can I "cp *" but exclude "Thumbs.db" ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<redtape-renegade> brobostigon, Morning..
<brobostigon> morning redtape-renegade
<redtape-renegade> brobostigon, OT| Why do window cleaners only take cash ??
<brobostigon> not a clue.
<popey> ours doesnt
<popey> directhex: hmvgrimsby didn't last long...
<fill_> quit
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> correct
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just cause
<redtape-renegade> popey, skype isn't in the software centre how do I install the package, again ?
<czajkowski> davmor2: gee thanks
<popey> !skype
<lubotu3> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype - To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto - Please use open protocols instead if you can, see !Ekiga
<czajkowski> davmor2: how was the lug meet up
<davmor2> czajkowski: I know you've missed them, I just didn't want you feeling unappreciated
<davmor2> czajkowski: pretty good fun to be honest needed it
<czajkowski> \o/
 * czajkowski cannot wait for friday 18:00 to come 
<czajkowski> I may fire my laptop into the garden
<czajkowski> :)
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, Why's that [fri @ 6pm] ??
<Laney> no more VMs for a whole two days
<Laney> why is the experience so bad?
<czajkowski> Laney: bingo
<davmor2> Laney: czajkowski is on an ultrabook
 * czajkowski goes back to doing peer reviews
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh by the way there may be a fix in precise 32 too now
<Laney> ohhhh I need to select my peers
<redtape-renegade> I thnk Amber Graner feels the brunt of it, thou [VM] | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1wVYZ7Md7qNvMnLraQIJeQ
<davmor2> Laney: Oh yes yes you do
<Laney> oh no!
<kvarley> IIS is so annoying
<kvarley> Responds rapidly for the first few seconds then lags massively
<redtape-renegade> Columbian Coffee and Condensed Milk (1/2 fat) in a mega mug : Does it get any better at two'sies ?
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, Ping
<davmor2> bigcalm: so how is onenote web for you?
<kvarley> Wish my Uni were running Linux servers
<kvarley> Having such a nightmare with IIS
<bigcalm> davmor2: it seems to be working. Thanks for reminding me about it
<davmor2> bigcalm: no worries and does it do everything you need so you don't need ms?
<bigcalm> davmor2: so far. I've only used OneNote for 3 days, so have no idea if it gives all of the features that I 'need'. I still have my windows server to hand though
<Artful> hey there, anyone  here using gma 3600 driver successfully?
<Artful> I bought a netbook and it's unfortunately got gma 3600 gfx hardware, which is intel / powervr closed source and I'm having a nightmare getting it working under linux
<Artful> ubuntu runs ok, it's just using gma 500 driver and everything is really slow
<popey> you may be out of luck.
<popey> i dont think anything has moved on that powervr driver
<Artful> :-(  there were some packages put in 12.04 multi but I couldn't even get those to work
<directhex> poulsbo? give up.
<Artful> i'm running 13.04, at least the screen is bright
<Artful> I even tried the MeeGo distro to get the drivers working, but didn't like the OS at all
<Artful> lol @ give up, this is a new netbook I've bought
<kvarley> What tools can I use to upload to a heavy loaded FTP server?
<kvarley> It's running IIS
<kvarley> It keeps corrupting my PDF file
<kvarley> Only half of each page will show
<redtape-renegade> Authome Add-on for Chrome and FFox [ see the pictures ] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/kicktraq/
<Artful> kvarley, can you ssh to the account?  might try copy that way
<kvarley> Artful: It's running IIS
<kvarley> So no
<Artful> doh kk
<Artful> adjust perhaps the timeouts on you local ftp client?
<kvarley> Artful: that might work
<kvarley> I'll let you know
<Artful> try different times of day
<kvarley> It's for a uni submission which is due today lol
<kvarley> I had everything uploaded early except one file
<kvarley> And this one file is being a pain
<Artful> last resort, zip it and try uploading that.  a smaller file might get through
<Artful> at least then it's uploaded
<kvarley> Needs to be PDF
<kvarley> No leeway on this kind of thing :(
<Artful> does the connection drop, or is the file just always corrupt?
<kvarley> Artful: it ends the  transfer then starts it
<kvarley> It's always been a terrible server even when it wasn't busy
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: try using lftp
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Every  operation  in  lftp  is reliable, that is any not fatal error is
<TheOpenSourcerer>        ignored and the operation is repeated. So  if  downloading  breaks,  it
<TheOpenSourcerer>        will be restarted from the point automatically."
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Please can you give me an example command for how to upload a file from my home directory to it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> not the time but man lftp or google will help you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You could also throttle the b/w it wants to use: http://cillian.wordpress.com/2006/04/04/throttle-bandwidth-used-by-ftp-on-linux-from-the-command-line/
<dwatkins> or just use tc to throttle all bandwidth, but that's not such a good idea, obv.
<dwatkins> there's also 'trickle' which can run on a specific application
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, How's life in the new house, down there >?
<kvarley> It fails after 100kb
<dwatkins> redtape|coffee: I don't have a new house, you must have me confused with someone else
<redtape|coffee> dwatkins, Your not the islander ?
<Artful> lol I just tried intel's linux gfx driver installer and it said I haven't a intel gfx card :-(
<redtape|coffee> MartijnVdS, I fond my /dream car/ http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cindyng/dream-car-0/
<redtape|coffee> **found my dr..
<dwatkins> redtape|coffee: what island? I live in Edinburgh
<redtape|coffee> dwatkins, soz must be daftykins , sorry.
<dwatkins> I'm also here only very sporadically, as my responses probably demonstrate, redtape|coffee
<dwatkins> no worries
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, ping
<Myrtti> seems very random.
<redtape|coffee> Myrtti,  problem ?
<kvarley> How can I do explicit TLS when connecting to an FTP server via nautilus?
<redtape|coffee> \join freegamer
<redtape|coffee> whoopsie
<dwatkins> kvarley: you mean sftp?
<dwatkins> 'In FileZilla client this means prefixing the host with "FTPES://" for "explicit" FTPS, or "FTPS://" for the legacy "implicit" FTPS.'
<directhex> FTPS != SFTP
<directhex> FTPS is horribly client-dependent
<directhex> and server-dependent
<directhex> there are at least 4 ways to do it
<kvarley> FTP is dead
<kvarley> long life SFTP
<kvarley> *LIVE
<redtape|coffee> OT Wolverine More4 9pm tonight [ 2009-film  flashback ] .. not that I will get it on Xubuntu.12.10
 * redtape|coffee tucks into his Kingsmill 'crusts away'  Beef Sarney.
<daftykins> redtape|coffee: yo
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, Hi.. just having some tropical Lilt ;)  Whatsup ?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> internet connection just enabled yesterday evening here in my new place
<redtape|coffee> happy camper ?
<daftykins> been disconnected for weeks! :D
<daftykins> sure am
<daftykins> finally back \o/
<daftykins> and got my lovely new 40Mb connection to boot
<daftykins> 4MB/sec downloads are very very welcome :>
<redtape|coffee> Oooh. ..  try www.londonist.co.uk  to make yourself feel happier ;)
<daftykins> just about to reinstall my HTPC downstairs in the lounge with the latest XBMC www.xbmc.org
<redtape|coffee> .. could be worse .. you could be in a flat in Romford :D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that your domain? looks like a holding page ;D
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, Yeah , I bought a Shuttle i3 last week , but it didn't boot ;(
<redtape|coffee> hangon..
<daftykins> :( gonna fix it up?
<redtape|coffee> Whatwas I thinking ? Laandoner are too high and mighty to be in the United Kingdom .. It's http://londonist.com/ ;)
<redtape|coffee> The shuttle ? .. I tried by buying a new HDMI cable , but I just gave up in the End .. got a full Â£150 refund thou :)
<redtape|coffee> minus Â£14 return charges , so no real loss.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> aww i love a good challenge
<daftykins> shame
<daftykins> anywho just burnt this XBMCbuntu CD, gonna go get cracking on installing it on my little ASRock Ion HTPC :)
<redtape|coffee> It'll be back online and /they/ swear to me it does work if you want to keep a Â£150 shuttle I3 .. in the family ?
<daftykins> i need to buy more flash drives - so frustrating to keep juggling OS's on the same one
<redtape|coffee> USB stix ?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> hehe ah i don't need anymore computers - trust me
<daftykins> got a shelf of my 2 old laptops
<daftykins> server, desktop, newest laptop
<redtape|coffee> I'll try and send links your way .. what capacity ?
<popey> yeah, I'm using xbmcbuntu on my revo
<popey> working very nicely
<daftykins> HP touchpad
<daftykins> popey: 12 and 12.1 have made it soooo much easier eh? :D
<daftykins> i think i may still need to apply my own remote config
<daftykins> but that's ok
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, I'll try and send links your way .. what capacity ?
<daftykins> popey: did you bother updating the nvidia drivers on the install? they seem perfectly capable
 * redtape|coffee realizes his crum,pets are burn .. to the kitchen !!!
<popey> yeah, i have enabled remote control on my android and iphone
<popey> works nicely
<daftykins> yarr
<popey> daftykins: can't remember
<daftykins> my ASRock comes with a remote too though
<popey> i need to update it, not been done for weeks
<popey> nice!
<daftykins> infrared receiver on the unit
<popey> I'm using a Boxee remote
<daftykins> basically an MCE one, but naturally the button config isn't ideal out of the box
<daftykins> i change the 'teletext' button to become the subtitle on/off for example :)
<daftykins> redtape|coffee: ah i'd just browse my usual favourite websites for some to be honest. just i've been not letting myself buy anything not strictly necessary - due to house running priorities :D
 * redtape|coffee crumpet crisis is averted !
<daftykins> now i'm not sponging anymore i've rediscovered living is expensive ;)
<popey> yeah, i have a basic mce one I got off ebay i think :D
<daftykins> ah man so good to finally be reconnected
<daftykins> can finally work from home
<daftykins> and finally get more entertainment / play with my toys :>
<popey> heh
<mgdm> 67
<mgdm> oops
<daftykins> alright back later, time to commence fiddling :) no doubt my xbox will need a dashboard update by now too... not that i use it much anymore!
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, My shares rose by 25% today :)  |   http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MFX.L  bye bye.
<daftykins> sell sell sell!
<redtape|coffee> I did .. made 2.3k
<redtape|coffee> daftykins, You could always try http://dx.com/s/htpc  if you need a new thingyma-jig  ..
<mungbean> my hp touchpad died today :(
<redtape|coffee> err.   |    i.e. keyboard .
<mungbean> no charge, no life, nowt
<redtape|coffee> mungbean, My sister got a samsung pad .. it's droid right ?
<mungbean> yeah redtape|coffee
<mungbean> not sure i can afford to Â£Â£ another
<redtape|coffee> I bought a nexus 7 for a guy in Switzerland once .. just got this reply back saying ... item forwarded to addresse  (??)
<directhex> mungbean, tried a force reset?
<redtape|coffee> oh no . not the summerschool PCWorld guy /again !!/
<directhex> my touchpad still works, although it occasionally needs to be forced to restart
<redtape|coffee> leaves.. BRBack
<redtape|coffee> everyone quits now ;(
<mungbean> directhex: tried power button and home key for 5/15/30 seconds
<mungbean> and also power/vol up/home
<directhex> hm
<mungbean> came up with "conect the proper charger" message momentarily
<mungbean> last night
<mungbean> when i was trying to turn it on
<mungbean> so i could try to buy a new charger
<mungbean> or find a high power one that works
<mungbean> the charger still works on my phone
<mungbean> ther's a story about CM10 that if your tp gets to zero battery it can get bricked
<mungbean> but i had llama installed to poweroff at 5%
<mungbean> hmm nexus 10 = Â£319 ouch
 * MartijnVdS hopes the "next Nexus" rumours are true
<MartijnVdS> (google i/o in may)
<brobostigon> also another new android version.
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> but I'm in need of a phone that does 4G _and_ is a Nexus ;)
<brobostigon> hopefully also for my nexus7.
<MartijnVdS> nexus7 will get any new android update for sure
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> my Xoom won't :(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: isnt there a cm version, which will run on it?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: probably, can't be bothered to look ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see. oh well. :)
<mungbean> if my touchpad is truly dead i will prob get a nex7 because i can't afford much more
<mungbean> watched bladerunner last night, was reminded about the nexus6 range ;)
<popey> nexus 7 will be cheaper in may I imagine
<popey> once the next nexus is announced
<MartijnVdS> popey: only if it's a tablet. if it's a phone it might not decrease in price
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<popey> so we've had nexus, 4, 7, 10, S, Q..
 * brobostigon likes his nexus7.
<popey> I bet it's Nexus X
<MartijnVdS> Google didn't migrate things from the "Scratchpad" Chrome(OS) app to Keep
<MartijnVdS> missed opportunity!
<popey> Fancy that.
<popey> http://www.google.com/googlenotebook/faq.html
<MartijnVdS> popey: Scratchpad does use Drive (a special folder in it) to store its content
<MartijnVdS> popey: the scratchpad app isn't gone, so I can copy stuff manually
<mungbean> when in may?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: https://developers.google.com/events/io/
<mungbean> surely the nexus is the price it is due to the tech price?
<MartijnVdS> May 15-17
<popey> https://developers.google.com/events/io/
<popey> bah
<mungbean> what's the new one?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: unknown, only rumours
<mungbean> hmm
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: rumours are: (a) new nexus phone and/or (b) new nexus tablet to go along with (c) new Android version "Key Lime Pie"
<mungbean> not sure i could wait too long if my tablet is really shagged
<mungbean> since i have a newborn child and need to read at night to keep me awake
<mungbean> shame i don't know anyone with a touchpad so i can try their touchstone
<MartijnVdS> wow.. 2 easter eggs on the i/o page found.. let's view source ;)
<redtape|coffee> MartijnVdS, If you want to talk about Key Lime Pie you'd better ask jkeyes0 on the #twil ~channel who will gladly accommodate your discussion   ;)
<daftykins> the correct format is definitely smb://IP/share/ isn't it?
<daftykins> XBMC gives me an instant timeout message if i try smb://IP/e$ for a Windows admin share
<MartijnVdS> redtape|coffee: I'll wait it out
<ali1234> does anyone know any tools like repo and mr for managing superprojects?
<redtape|coffee> ali1234, What like a lens or some project like that ?
<daftykins> hmm my HTPC can't connect to my windows file server shares
<daftykins> can anyone recommend a way to diagnose? i'm about to try using 'smbclient' in a terminal to try and access my shares
<daftykins> ah think i got it
<daftykins> server was throwing "protocol negotiation failed: NT_STATUS_INSUFFICIENT_RESOURCES"
<Arnieeu>  irc.snoonet.org
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-22
<redtape|coffee> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz -_-
<redtape|coffee> Morn-some.
<kvarley> Am I allowed to use 'Ubuntu Orange' on my website? I'm not replicating the Ubuntu brand. I just like orange :P
<redtape|coffee> yes
<popey> of course
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy Friday
<redtape|coffee> OT: System 76 guy was on LAShow last week : http://youtu.be/EfYGjcNmeDY?t=24m56s
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo AlanBell
 * TheOpenSourcerer is waiting for his old Volvo to be towed away and destroyed (slowly probably)
<popey> awwww
 * popey removes his hat
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs TheOpenSourcerer is rather sad. We bought that car 10 years ago this month.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Has been to a lot of interesting places.
<popey> Heh, I'll be sad when my volvo dies
<AlanBell> bits are falling off my merc
<TheOpenSourcerer> But the slightly newer one is much nicer ;-)
 * AlanBell had a short ride in the new volvo, it is rather nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> It has a "Parrot" and my S3 pairs within fine so I have in-car phone connectivity too
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\within\with it
<popey> oh nice
<popey> so you can make/receive calls using in car audio stuff?
<popey> I have never had a car that had that
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - it kills the radio and everything!
<popey> speaking of bluetooth, i bought an OBD-II thing which is attached to my car now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Syncs contacts and call logs etc.
<redtape|coffee> TheOpenSourcerer, It's not a 900 is it ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S90#Volvo_960.2FS90.2FV90
<TheOpenSourcerer> V70
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/Excelvan-Bluetooth-Interface-Scanner-Adapter/dp/B007P14NPU/ref=cm_rdp_product
<popey> one of them
<redtape|coffee> ooh nice .. that's an accountaning technicians car :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> One of these: http://www.parrot.com/uk/support/parrotck3100ck3300ck3500
<redtape|coffee> opening..
<popey> never seen those
<popey> aftermarket thing the previous owner added?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> But fairly unobtrusive
<redtape|coffee> TheOpenSourcerer, I was talking about yar Volvo .. ??
<popey> redtape|coffee: so was TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> redtape|coffee: I wasn't ;-)
<popey> then we moved on âº
<redtape|coffee> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_V70
<redtape|coffee> I didn't
<popey> keep up at the back
 * redtape|coffee plays with the wikipedia sideshow...
<redtape|coffee> man, I need to log-out .. XChat is slow to say the least today.
<redtape|coffee> Talk on that wiki page says some-it 'bot ::: || faulty Electronic Throttle Modules (ETMs)
<redtape|coffee> **about..
<redtape|coffee> Oh, and OT | but TheOpenSourcerer you have a belgian car :)
<redtape|coffee>    "  b) assembled in Ghent, Belgium "
<redtape|coffee> TheOpenSourcerer, Have you ever seen these used by the force/emeg. services ?
<redtape|coffee> **emergeency services ...  ??
<TheOpenSourcerer> huh? The Police use(d) the T5 for years
<redtape|coffee> What 'bout the V70 ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The T5 is a V70!
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's the FAST one!
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://www.google.com/search?q=police+volvo+T5
<redtape|coffee> oh ... I'll updatev the wiki :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> redtape|coffee: http://not2grand.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/volvo-v70-23-t5.html
 * redtape|coffee goes to get 20p newspaper for weather news .
<salzbro> #ppuk
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, and happy World Day for Water, everyone! :-D
<JamesTait> I'd like to propose that today also be declared "Snow??? WTF???" Day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> no snow here
<redtape|coffee> sleet here .. but no papaers in the shop (today)..
<redtape|coffee> I actually bought Ian Hislop's newspaper/public.
<redtape|coffee> OT | When was the last time you saw a copy of the Private Eye ?  www.private-eye.co.uk ?
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, you're down south, IIRC?
<redtape|coffee> JamesTait, He is.
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<popey> redtape|coffee: I used to subscribe
<TheOpenSourcerer> JamesTait: Yep - Farnham, Surrey to be precise(ish)
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, oh, I didn't realise you were also in Farnham. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "also"?
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, I thought popey was based there too?
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's not far away but not Farnham.
<AlanBell> we are close enough to meet up for a long lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<AlanBell> the last long lunch ended gone midnight
<popey> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=farnborough+to+farnham
<popey> not far
<JamesTait> Oh, of course! How could I forget the air show?
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21830739 that is a news article about a made up word as far as I can tell
<JamesTait> Mmm, bacn.
<redtape|coffee> I only like the adverts .. popey http://paste.ubuntu.com/5636485/  There you go I've saved you all Â£1.50 , today !!
<JamesTait> I wish the Google Talk Plugin changelog entries in the deb package were more useful than just "Maintenance release".
<redtape|coffee> popey .. did you get my ^ pastebin ^  ?
<dwatkins> redtape|coffee: I just saved 93p by not buying it, though ;)
<redtape|coffee> dwatkins, Right, because  gave you all the info-(adverts) for free :D
 * redtape|coffee celebrates the power of sharing                                          \o/
<popey> redtape|coffee: i saw it, then closed it
 * redtape|coffee shrugs.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.arewefastyet.com/
<redtape|coffee> The Safari browser is quickest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_%28browser%29  :( but it uses webkit :|
<AlanBell> chrome is quickest on most tests
<AlanBell> and this isn't a test of webkit
<AlanBell> or geko
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Following on from your culinary success last week.. I've got my Mum & Dad coming for lunch tomorrow. Thinking Boeuf Bourguignon, New Potatoes, and perhaps some green beans? Sound OK?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Idea for a new culinary website... "Askpopey.com"
<brobostigon> chilli a'la popey
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd be inclined to do roast potatoes to have some crunch, but yeah, sounds nom
<redtape|coffee> That's  .. more like www.o5.com
<redtape|coffee> Nice metric's though | http://pmetrics.performancing.com/stats/?site_id=12734
 * redtape|coffee thinks 'p-metics' to get popeys webcam views would be a good idea.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Roasties... Hmm, maybe. But think I will go for steamed new anyway (nicer smothered in butter & parsley).
<popey> nom
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs to go to the office and get all "strategic"...
 * AlanBell nods
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/7535/hasselback-potatoes.aspx
<popey> ooh, i made those a while back, they're lovely
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kewl - they look nice Myrtti
 * DJones debates, clear snow of the path or bake bread
<popey> in fact I shall make them this weekend I think, thanks Myrtti
 * TheOpenSourcerer looks at his back garden bathed in Spring sunshine.
<Myrtti> we were taught the recipe at home economics in school ^___^
<Myrtti> now I want garlic or blue cheese creamed potatoes tho
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: We've got a decent covering of snow, averages about 2" deep
<davmor2> Morning all
<redtape|coffee> OT |  Anbody wanna go 1llegal ? http://illegaleshow.nl/finally-a-it-looks-like-a-plan-plan/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=
<popey> seriously. _what_?
<kvarley> That has to be a dodgy url, just look at it
<davmor2> So which prats ordered the UK wide Waterslide for the West and the UK snow for the east for their kids birthdays :)
<shauno> okay, I thought I was going crazy, I'm not.  that .nl has randomly appearing/disappearing my little pony / rainbows / hello kitty.  wow.
<bigcalm> davmor2: Snow here
<davmor2> bigcalm: you don't have kids unless you ordered it for yourself
<bigcalm> davmor2: I ordered it for Hayley, but she still managed to get into work
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<DJones> Police have just closed a major bridge here due to falling snow & ice
<bigcalm> That happens to the M4 Wales bridge quite offten
<bigcalm> often
<DJones> Just seeing peoples comments, falling ice has been smashing car windscreens
<bigcalm> Heavy water
<popey> happy birthday andylockran
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't joke like that it's bad enough that their window is smashed without being radioactive too :)
<davmor2> Man Love film really don't want you to cancel your account
<shauno> and netflix really, really want you to come back
<popey> i just finished my first month of free netflix
<shauno> if they offered it again I might actually try it.  but when I tried last year, the offer here was almost entirely bollywood
<redtape|coffee> OT | Sellafield Power Staion has shut down due to the bad weather and high winds.
<bigcalm> I doubt I'd consider netflix or similar until we had a 'net connected TV. I think we get enough of what we don't use via cable as it is :)
<shauno> I think mine'll play if I let it update.  but I really don't want the faff of having to shove my tv through a vpn just to get any content
<popey> got the paypal notification for first months payment and thought "yeah, I'll probably use that more"
<popey> and will now go and buy a smart telly âº
<bigcalm> popey: get a 3d one while you're at it
<popey> nope
<popey> 3d is overrated
<popey> and will be gone soon
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> It's lasted longer than I had expected it to
<popey> ditto
<redtape|coffee> 3d is for kids in cinema, not htpc's.
<kvarley> popey: Make sure the telly supports DNLA so when your "smart" TV is not longer smart you can still stream stuff to it :)
<shauno> or just grab an appletv and save yourself a couple of quid  *ducks*
<kvarley> shauno: He has a raspberry pi :)
<kvarley> The solution is never to buy an Apple product
<shauno> hm, I didn't try netflix on my pi
<kvarley> shauno: ah, in which case you want one of those android mini-pcs
<kvarley> Or just a fanless pc :)
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21896442
<jacobw> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/poll-pycon-playhaven-anonymous-adria-richards-and-online-sexism-where-did-it-all-go-wrong-8545741.html
<jacobw> Oh dear, a poll!
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> poll needs "all of the above" option
<BigRedS> surely that's the first one, then?
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> it's asking for the point at which it got out of hand
<ali1234> literally everyone is in the wrong
<AlanBell> no, I would go for "all of the above" too
<BigRedS> yeah, that's not the question, though
<ali1234> the question is dumb
<AlanBell> oh I see what you mean
<BigRedS> if  only 3, 4 and 5 were overreactions then '3' is the point at which it got out of hand
<AlanBell> it kept on getting more and more out of hand at every step
<ali1234> it got out of hand a long time ago
<dwatkins> Mountain out of a molehill
<dwatkins> Granted the guys probably shouldn't have made the jokes in question, but I've heard worse in the kitchen at work here.
<dwatkins> She's clearly acting as the complete antithesis of a developer relations person.
<Myrtti> https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/
<ali1234> well there's nothing unusual about that
<ali1234> the issue got out of hand at the point where anyone who refused to pick a side was shunned by both sides
<ali1234> this happened several years ago
<Twinkletoes> My ubuntu desktop 12.10 only seems to have traceroute6 installed... which package do I Get traceroute for ipv4 from?
<TheOpenSourcerer> tracepath
<popey> apt-cache search traceroute
<Twinkletoes> popey: thanks for that - it says tracepath is already installed... shoudl I remove and reinstall?
<Twinkletoes> popey: the package was iputils-tracepath
<popey> the package is traceroute here
<popey> but I wouldn't use traceroute, use mtr :D
<Twinkletoes> cool - thanks you :)
<bigcalm> Oh bottoms
<bigcalm> The snow is sticking to my car now
<redtape|coffee> bigcalm, Libre Snow Balls ?
<DJones> bigcalm: Its been sticking to my car since before I woke up, had about 1hr when it stopped snowing
<davmor2> http://www.harlemify.com/?url=www.ubuntu.com muhahahaha the fun you can have :)
<MartijnVdS> Any (card) gamers out there? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cantripgames/story-war-the-storytelling-party-game
<popey> already backing it :0
<MartijnVdS> popey: I know, but not everyone might have seen it :)
<popey> of course âº
<popey> looking forward to that
<popey> also, CaH expansion 3 now in stock
<MartijnVdS> CoH you mean? :)
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> Against is with an "a"
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3YT030/
 * MartijnVdS fails English forever
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. no ship to Netherlands :(
<popey> yeah, got one of my co-workers to order for me
 * MartijnVdS orders a low-end "NUC"
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you see this one as well? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/421164014/openshot-video-editor-for-windows-mac-and-linux/posts/434357?ref=activity
<joan> hello
<joan> i'm trying to make TF2 work in my old laptop following this workaround: http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/846938351012409765/
<joan> but I don't know where to find my bashrc (or .zshrc, or .profile)
<joan> where's that file?
<ali1234> in your home directory
<joan> found it
<mungbean> is there such a thing as a high rated usb cable?
<mungbean> or will the cable for my phone charger also work in my 2A usb charger too
<ali1234> you don't need that first line on ubuntu as $HOME/bin is already on the path
<ali1234> after you create it and restart computer anyway
<ali1234> mungbean: there is no such thing as high rated USB cable
<mungbean> didnt think so..wanted to check for sanity
<ali1234> 2A * 5v = 10W
<mungbean> still trying to revive the tablet
<mungbean> got to wait a week for a new charger to arrive
<ali1234> after i install android sdk, where do i find "ant"?
<popey> ali1234: tools
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> that's a directory
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/android-sdk-linux$ find . -name ant
<popey> ./tools/ant
<popey> ./tools/proguard/ant
<popey> ./tools/proguard/examples/ant
<ali1234> those are all directories
<popey> so they are
<ali1234> i'm reading the instructions how to build SDL for android and it says "now run ant debug to build it"
<ali1234> so the answer is the android sdk doesn't include ant
<ali1234> so i'm supposed to install it myself from distro
<ali1234> cool, got apk
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-23
<redtape-renegade> Morning, least it's not raining today here !!
<czajkowski> snow--
<AlanBell> snow here
<AlanBell> got to go into farnham later and get a new phone for an offspring
<AlanBell> carphone warehouse appears to have a Samsung Galaxy Ace for Â£7.50/month
<directhex> still snowing here
<directhex> a little
<directhex> bad enough that the prius isn't going anywhere
<MartijnVdS> No snow here, but strong cold winds (wind chill: -15Â°C)
<redtape-renegade> post pictures here or on twitter ppl !
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: can't take very good pictures of wind
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, And it's w-effects ?? What 'bout that ?
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> w-effects?
<redtape-renegade> wind effect
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: My 6D is with the package delivery man .. should be here within the hour ;)
<redtape-renegade> Is that a camera ?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-6d
<redtape-renegade> appears so :: | http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-eos-6d-with/4505-6501_7-35437982.html
<MartijnVdS> a very shiny one :)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Haha .. First Rule of Google : Never go for the first suggestion !
<redtape-renegade> My window is whistling to me !
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: forgot to take your pills again? ;)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, I had rabbies injection when I was 12 .. after that I need guiness as medication to defeating trolling comments .
<redtape-renegade> ...
<redtape-renegade> Dunno if anyone has nothing to-do today, But the LibrePlanet conference is on over in Boston, US :: |  http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanet:Conference/2013/Program
<redtape-renegade> There's video for the first time this year \o/
<redtape-renegade> but you'll prob.ly say they're childiish, or something..
<redtape-renegade> which I tend to agree.
<MartijnVdS> LibrePlanet? what's that?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Dude, wake up see the Link !
<MartijnVdS> FSF trying to take over the world?
<redtape-renegade> they just monitor website usually.
<redtape-renegade> **websites.. usually
<MartijnVdS> Big Stallman is Watching You?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, You are obviously not in constructive-comments mode today, are you ?
<MartijnVdS> I just don't like the way FSF promotes its ideas usually :)
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, you never really say what 's good about anything...
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Perhaps you are better on something Like Reddit ::: | http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1au3k9/instead_of_using_actual_spray_cans_some_artists/
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: Saw that one :) Reminded me of some ads(!) they did on the sidewalk a few months ago
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: using a template + pressure washer :)
<redtape-renegade> It's obvious ..
<redtape-renegade> they do it outside of public houses in Ireland to get bookie advertising for years .. they even scew the image so if you are walking you only see the complete advert for a millisecond .. it makes you *blink * !
<redtape-renegade> Aaaw Man , my milk went off a-day-early !
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: should have kept it outside, it's cold enough ;)
<redtape-renegade> troo.#
 * redtape-renegade 's having a smokey.
<redtape-renegade> Oh man , purple haze, purple haze.
<MartijnVdS> is that when purple rain evaporates?
<redtape-renegade> no it when you have a smokey.
<redtape-renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVH3WGj7VE  It's getting colder !
<redtape-renegade> Yay http://www.ubuntu-cola.blogspot.com/  is on blogspot .. i didn't know that !
 * redtape-renegade          prefers Ribena    .
<MartijnVdS> http://pyvideo.org/video/1668/keynote-2
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<redtape-renegade> yay BBCMicro http://youtu.be/PAHBZImmXsI?t=2m24s
<redtape-renegade> OT | Man,, Ive got to stop getting fleeced on classified website's http://www.gumtree.co.za/fp-ubuntu?isSearchForm=true .. BTW 1.00 GBP	=	14.1464 ZAR (south African rands)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<meet> Hi. I have a dell N5110 system. I installed 12.04. But I am not getting any touch scroll options in the settings menu for mouse. Also, I tried the instructions given here: http://goo.gl/B2snx which had once worked for me on elementary OS based on 12.04. but it's not working for me now. what can I do?
<redtape-renegade> OT | Isle of Man get a mention on the front page of Y!ahoo UK website .. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/on-this-day-mike-hailwood-killed-in-car-crash-140435227.html#Id2otEA
<popey> morning
<popey> ish
<MartijnVdS> \o
<SuperMatt> morning
 * SuperMatt is doing the 'install windows before everything else dance' except the windows install isn't working >:(
<SuperMatt> ooooh, finally!
<SuperMatt> after about 5 installs and blindly changing bios options \o/
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: "REset to default/safe values" doesn't work?
<SuperMatt> nope
<kvarley> Anybody here know htacccess? I want to rewrite myfolder/index.html to www.example.com/this
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: htaccess is just bits of apache config :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: look up the "mod_rewrite" guide in the Apache docs
<MartijnVdS> it has loads of examples
<SuperMatt> kvarley: I know it
<SuperMatt> RewriteRule /myfolder/index.html http://www.example.com/this [R=301]
<SuperMatt> and make sure you have rewrite engine on
<SuperMatt> with RewriteEngine On
<SuperMatt> that goes before it
<mungbean> seen this? looks handy https://www.leapmotion.com/product
<mungbean> gesture device for your media pc would be good
<AlanBell> reasonably priced too
<penguin42> interesting - I wonder what it looks like to the host
<popey> "mac or pc"
<popey> a device via a driver by the look of it
<AlanBell> looks like a camera that does black images apparently
<penguin42> yeh I wondered where the image interepretation was - if it's in the device then there is a chance of making it work
<rmarcandier>  /msg NickServ identify lag123ss
<AlanBell> got http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/HTC_DESIRE_C2/MONTHLY for eldest sprog this morning
<penguin42> rmarcandier: Oops
<AlanBell> new password time rmarcandier
<Myrtti> sprog
<Myrtti> lol
<rmarcandier> omg
<AlanBell> sproglette then Myrtti
<popey> AlanBell: how old is eldest sprog now?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: 12
<TheOpenSourcerer> I met AlanBell at the anti-natal class for our 1st borns.
<popey> hah
<popey> hope she doesn't ever answer the google birthday challenge then
<popey> will have her google account shutdown
<popey> I have informed Sophie to call me if it ever asks for her date of birth
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right, back to making a Roman shield with thing 2... We are learning about scale
<StevenR> popey: google birthday challenge?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: google sometimes asks you for your birthday ("Is this correct?" "We want to make sure our records are complete in case you ever need to reset your password" etc.)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: and if you're <13 you aren't allowed an account
<StevenR> ahhh
<MartijnVdS> popey: is the "13 years" rule also in place for (paid?) "apps" accounts?
<StevenR> hrrm. Dad's computer keeps crashing - BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at 00000002000000c0   We've checked the RAM using memtest overnight and it came up clean, similarly a touch /forcefsck brought up nothing. He's running 3.2.0-39 at the moment. I've suggested he try -38 next time it happens. Is there anything else I should do?
<StevenR> (it's Xubuntu on top of the current LTS)
<popey> i believe so MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: weird rules are weird
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, I have heard of that too
<penguin42> StevenR: Can you get the rest of the error?
<penguin42> StevenR: if you're RAM is good then it's almost certainly a kernel bug
<StevenR> penguin42: yeah, I can grab the rest of it
<StevenR> openvpn ftw :)
 * MartijnVdS now has an OpenWRT router doing the heavy lifting (of the 100/100 fibre link)
<MartijnVdS> it's faster than the ISP-supplied Fritz!Box :)
<penguin42> StevenR: You could also remotely run an ubuntu-bug linux    from a terminal it'll give you a URL that you can open to fill in the details
<StevenR> penguin42: ok.... I'll make sure it's actually a problem with -39 first :)
<StevenR> if it still crashes with earlier versions, it's probably not kernel (the box is around 10mo old)
<StevenR> thanks penguin42
<penguin42> no problem - have you got a bug number?
<StevenR> not yet
 * penguin42 is happy to look at the back trace
<StevenR> I want to try -38 first, to be sure it's actually a bug in -39
 * kvarley 's Kindle Fire just died :(
<brobostigon> hw or sw?
<kvarley> Hardware
<kvarley> Just turned off suddenly
<kvarley> No low battery warning
<kvarley> Now won't turn on
<kvarley> Won't accept charge
<kvarley> It's a shame .. but I was itching for a nexus 10 ;)
<brobostigon> :( :)
<Myrtti> how long have you left it in the charger?
<popey> kvarley: some friends of mine have had their kindle replaced out of warranty
<skinofstars> hey guys. don't suppose anyone's got a moment to help me with an apache local development setup? i'm trying to get a projects folder in my home dir that i can edit.
<skinofstars> i'm getting a 403
<skinofstars> here is my rough setup http://pastebin.com/661Tcaec can anyone spot something wrong?
<AlanBell> skinofstars: the apache server (www-data) needs to be able to read the folder concerned
<AlanBell> and /home/kevin too
<skinofstars> hmm. i created a group with both myself and www-data in it and set that to the projects folder. do i really need to do that for my home folder too?
<AlanBell> dunno, it wants to look at the .htaccess there, not quite sure why
<skinofstars> no, seems really odd.
<skinofstars> ok, i chgrp my home dir to a group that looks like - webdev:x:1002:www-data,kevin
<skinofstars> still didn't work
<MartijnVdS> skinofstars: should not be necessary
<MartijnVdS> skinofstars: Can you put the output of "ls -ld ~" and "ls -ld ~/projects" somewhere?
<skinofstars> agreed. i'm sure it didn't have to do this on previous setups
<skinofstars> sure
<MartijnVdS> I bet ~ doesn't have o+x ("search permissions for others"). www-data = "others"
<MartijnVdS> so: "chmod o+x ~; chmod 755 ~/projects" should probably fix it
<skinofstars> http://pastebin.com/vdPPYmkr
<skinofstars> ok, i'll try that
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> + on your homedir?
<MartijnVdS> you enabled POSIX ACLs?
<MartijnVdS> you shouldn't need that
<skinofstars> this is pretty much a fresh install
<MartijnVdS> ok
<skinofstars> i've just been using php's inbuilt server
<skinofstars> but i'm doing some stuff that needs apache
<skinofstars> MartijnVdS: ok, i've made some progress. thanks for your help. what does the + on the homedir mean?
<skinofstars> ahh, acl. i'll look that up. thanks
<MartijnVdS> skinofstars: it means an ACL is set, check out more using "getfacl ~"
<MartijnVdS> (getfacl -> get file ACL)
<MartijnVdS> (\o/ 10,5MB/s)
<Adriannom> hi.  having trouble getting my wifi card to work.  ubuntu 12.10, lspci says "Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI".  compiled the ralink driver but iwconfig says no wifi card.  anyone have any ideas?
<popey> !ralink
<lubotu3> Wireless documentation, including how-to guides and troubleshooting information, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<popey> Adriannom: ^^ may help
<Adriannom> thanks popey
<Adriannom> if lspci says "Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI" is it a rt61 card or an rt2500?
<Adriannom> cause apparently rt61 shows up as "'Network controller: Ralink Unknown device 0301'"
<Adriannom> :s
<redtape-renegade> OT | Conference on right now :: http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Live/A
<mungbean> anyone had experience of zinio reader on ubuntu?
<mungbean> its an adobe air app
<mungbean> and a complete fail
<ikonia> mungbean: it's not designed for linux
<mungbean> no, but its adobe air app
<ikonia> yes, I thought air wasn't designed for linux
<mungbean> yo ucan still use 2.6 version
<ikonia> can use / not desigend
<ikonia> I didn't think air was meant for linux
<mungbean> yes it was, howver they stopped it recently
<mungbean> this zinio stuff is a real fail..DRM sucks
<mungbean> my tablet died and i wanted to read my magazines
<mungbean> but it downloads them as encrypted pdfs but don't knwo the password
<mungbean> do regular android apps work on android x86?
<popey> if recompiled
<popey> so "no" unless they're FLOSS
<Myrtti> I thought Adobe Air for Linux was abandoned so long time ago that it's practically dead
<mungbean> thanks popey :(
<mungbean> Myrtti: this zinio magazine app is known to work with 2.6 air
<ali1234> wat no
<mungbean> on other platforms , and ubuntu anecdotally
<ali1234> regular android apps work fine on android x86
<ali1234> if they use NDK they don't
<mungbean> ali1234: what's NDK please
<ali1234> but most apps don't use that
<ali1234> NDK = native development kit
<mungbean> wondering whether to repurpose an old laptop as a magazine reader if the zinio app worked on android x86
<SuperMatt> I seem to be having issues with the raring installer
<popey> oh yeah
<popey> duh
<ali1234> a cheezy magazine reader should work fine
<SuperMatt> it hangs on the second section
<ali1234> high end 3D games probably not
<popey> i guess some apps which are natively built wont
<popey> yeah, like unity3d things
<mungbean> i'd go and check but wifey in bed already
<ali1234> yeah. i'm currently trying to build ogre for android
<mungbean> and other laptop in the bedroom
<ali1234> and SDL
<ali1234> it all needs NDK obviously
<mungbean> i'm pulling the baby shift 7-2am
<ali1234> if you can figure out how to get access to market in the emulator, you can use that
<ali1234> it needs hacks though
<mungbean> ah
<mungbean> nice idea, slow though right/
<ali1234> not particularly
<ali1234> again, not for a cheezy PDF reader
<ali1234> i'm surprised how easily NDK builds work actually
<ali1234> somewhat easier to cross build than win32
<mungbean> everything would be easier if i could decrpyt these files
<mungbean> which is gonna have to happen when the company closes down
<ali1234> well never underestimate obvious tricks
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh NDK is impressive - I built binutils as a library and tacked it onto an android app
<penguin42> well part of it
<ali1234> unpack apk, find -exec strings -n 10 \; > passwords.txt, pdfcrack -p passwords.txt my.pdf
<ali1234> all commands made up but you get the idea
<popey> i was pondering yesterday whether someone could "port" the ubuntu touch preview to the android emulator
<ali1234> penguin42: probably i have is that the regular gcc based builds use configure or cmake and thus can build out of tree
<popey> so people could test out all the bits on a "native" environment without having a device
<ali1234> android build isn't set up to do that, so it messes up the source
<mungbean> yeah, would try but my tablet has died containing the pdfs that are cached by the app
<popey> mungbean: cant you re-download?
<ali1234> popey: that should be very easy indeed
<popey> ali1234: hope to it :D
<mungbean> popey: maazine delivery is done via their crummy app
<ali1234> popey: brunch goldfish
<popey> would be really useful to have a script which built the filesystem for the emulator from the daily image
<popey> mungbean: 10.04 vm, install air, win
<ali1234> emulator is a unique machine type like all the others, it's called goldfish
<ali1234> it has own kernel repos and etc
<popey> oh, handy
<popey> surprised nobody else thought to do this
<ali1234> i don't think it is in cyanogen
<penguin42> ali1234: I don't get on with cmake; configure from binutils was mostly ok with CC/CXX set to the ndk
<popey> the emulator is quite chunky though
<ali1234> i thought about it
<popey> thought you might âº
<mungbean> popey: i'm purging air and retrying
<ali1234> but i think about a lot of things and never do them
<popey> me too
<ali1234> i figure this is something that someone else will have to do at some point :P
<ali1234> i've decided to concentrate on one project
<ali1234> that project is finishing raceworld and then selling it
<ali1234> hence why i am messing about with NDK
<popey> super
<ali1234> now when will we get NDK for ubuntu-touch? :P
<penguin42> popey: You probably could get it to work on the Android one; but it might be easier to run it on the Linaro Qemu builds
<popey> what's the N stand for?
<ali1234> native
<popey> ahh
<popey> we'll allow native apps, sure
<ali1234> yes but i need a toolchain
<popey> yeah, not sure
<ali1234> a proper one
<popey> i expect that depend on demand
<ali1234> not just "oh, you can install armv7-blahblah" from repos
<ali1234> also documentation
<ali1234> like how do you wrap native into an "app" that works properly with the phone shell
<penguin42> ali1234: as far as the toolchain goes, can you just say what you want beyond installing the cross tools; I guess all the magic to setup the cross libraries etc
<ali1234> for ubuntu-touch?
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> i want a metapackage like ubuntu-sdk
<ali1234> except called ubuntu-ndk
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh fair enough
<ali1234> and docs
<ali1234> lots of docs and examples
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh perhaps an example of how to glue some native code into it - I guess that's like adding new things into QML?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> if that's the way to do it then so be it. examples please
<ali1234> however OGRE will be using EGL
<ali1234> Qt code should be a minimum
<ali1234> if any is needed at all
<ali1234> but i have no idea... so... docs please
<penguin42> ali1234: I suspect also there is some required docs on what compiler options are required/allowed to work on all Ubuntu touch devices, and what you can rely on
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> there's a lot of docs still needed
<ali1234> not to worry though, i have plenty of work to do packaging this stuff up for windows and android
<ali1234> then i have to actually finish writing the game
<penguin42> ali1234: The other thing is android seems to have a few odd things that throw some builds - not quite posixy
<ali1234> not a problem
<ali1234> ogre and SDL are already "ported" to android
<ali1234> the trouble is just figuring out how to combine them in a senseful way
<ali1234> they can build individually but i need both in one project
<ali1234> and the project also has to build for the other platforms
 * penguin42 hands ali1234 a tube of epoxy and a ball of string
<ali1234> then i throw it into build server
<ali1234> since it's a game it's not using posix stuff
<ali1234> not directly anyway
<ali1234> OGRE does graphics, SDL does everything else
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I can't quite remember what binutils stuff I hit it was just some normal stuff you might expect that was a bit different
<Klettbar>  does anyone know if there are sshd seagate on the market now
<Klettbar>  thin
<Klettbar>  7mm
<Klettbar>  sshd thin
<Klettbar>  gen2 but thn
<Klettbar> where can i post that question
<popey> Klettbar: why do you need 7mm?
 * mungbean boils a kettle for earth hour
<popey> hah
<mungbean> i'm watching dAS boot
<mungbean> 4 hr version
 * popey is catching up with dexter
<mungbean> lt werner looks suspiciously like herr flick. and allo allo was 1 yr later
<penguin42> mungbean: Dive!
<mungbean> achtung!
<popey> Ja!
<mungbean> lots of gingers in this
<Klettbar> laptop
<popey> Klettbar: which laptop out of interest?
<Klettbar> it requires 7mm
<popey> so does mine, but a 9mm fits
<Klettbar> it has shell to cushion
<Klettbar> takes space
<popey> same here
<popey> I just didnt bother installing the rubber shell
<Klettbar> with or without cushion
<popey> what type of laptop is it?
<Klettbar> panasonic cft7
<popey> blimey, panasonic still make laptops!
<Klettbar> now u can target me and shoot
<Klettbar> old one
<Klettbar> second hand
<Klettbar> i know what yopu mean
<Klettbar> you can remove the fancy shell
<Klettbar> i think it would work well for ssd
<popey> SSDs make everything better
<Klettbar> actualy they are
<Klettbar> 9.5 mm
<popey> hurrah
<Klettbar> it was crammed or without problem
<popey> i just crammed a 9mm in the bay on my thinkpad x220
<popey> works nicely
<Klettbar> ssd or hdd
<Klettbar> all ssd are mlc
<Klettbar> i think they won't last years
<Klettbar> not many
<Klettbar> i need a criterion not to spend all life on this
<Klettbar> what about tossing a coin
<mungbean> how much u habe to invest?
<mungbean> and is it i/o you need?
<popey> i put an ssd in my x220
<popey> well, two now
<popey> Device Model:     OCZ-VERTEX3
<popey> Device Model:     M4-CT256M4SSD3
<Klettbar> how do u mean 2
<popey> my laptop has an mSATA port
<Klettbar> and mine?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> never seen your laptop âº
<neuro> my ploppenhammer hast ein scarf port!!
<neuro> sorry, that's only really funny if said in a comedy German accent
<neuro> or maybe Swedish
<neuro> evenin mr popey
<mungbean> i need gesture control when feeding baby :S
<neuro> like a jedi?
<mungbean> :)
<mungbean> would be helpful. am peckish
<Klettbar> how is swedish accent
<mungbean> hurdy gurdy
<neuro> sorry, ignore that; it was my attempt at being funny
<neuro> my problem is that i haven't had a smoke in several hours and i'm getting a bit ... snfosngioengw.
<mungbean> nic patches?
<mungbean> ecigs?
<neuro> pff
<mungbean> expensive hobby man
<Klettbar> You can insert the PC Card Type I (3.3 mm) or II (5.0 mm) to the PC Card slot.
<neuro> this isn't an "i'm giving up cigs" haven't had a smoke, this is an "i'm too lazy to go to the shop" thing
<Klettbar> The following types of card are not supported:
<Klettbar> PC Card Type III, ZV card, SRAM card, FLASH ROM card (excluding ATA interface type), and other cards that require
<Klettbar> 12V of operating voltage.
<neuro> wow, pc cards?
<mungbean> watched bladerunner final cut the other night
<Klettbar> what can i do with pc card type II
<mungbean> it rocked
<mungbean> store your library card
<penguin42> enhance, left ....
<Klettbar> good idea
<neuro> ohhh blade runner, how i wub thee
<neuro> i have bought that movie so many times it's wrong
<mungbean> the final cut was on at chrimstas
<penguin42> Klettbar: PC Card's are just the new name for PCMCIA - I have a gigE card I found for 99p a few years ago (don't have any use for it - but I have the slot!)
<mungbean> i already owned the dir cut
<neuro> yup, i have that, twice
<neuro> vhs + dvd
<neuro> also original theatrical on vhs
<penguin42> anyone on +1 who can try a libreoffice bug for me?
<neuro> final cut on hd-dvd + blu ray
<neuro> and i have the final cut 5 disc dvd tin thing
<penguin42> neuro: But no betamax copy?
<neuro> never had beta
<neuro> i was a vhs kid
<mungbean> neuro: with delted scenes and making of
<penguin42> neuro: Well with hd-dvd....
<neuro> hehe
<mungbean> phil k Dick decided decker was not replicant, but ridley scott did
<neuro> only reason i have anything in hd-dvd is because i picked up the drive for the xbox plus three discs for 25 quid in gamestation years ago
<neuro> mungbean: advice: don't read the sequels
<mungbean> nope
<neuro> 3 of them, i think
<mungbean> ooff
<mungbean> i recorded the swedish versions of dargon tatto films
<mungbean> realised they are awful
<mungbean> delted them
<neuro> yup, checked, 3: written by KW Jeter
<mungbean> read the books. they are awful too. still read them
<neuro> i read BR2
<neuro> didn't think much of it
<mungbean> life tip: don't read sequels by different authors
<neuro> when i read about BR3 and 4, i thought "hmmm, na"
<neuro> good tip
<neuro> oh re: dragon tattoo, i liked both of them
<ali1234> whaaaaaaat
<mungbean> there's 3
<neuro> .se and .us versions
<mungbean> ah
<neuro> haven't watched hornets nest or the other one yet
<mungbean> watched the 1st.,the 2nd and 3rd were so dreary
<mungbean> i deleted them without finishing
<neuro> ali1234: whaaaaaaaaaat?!
<neuro> mungbean: i don't think i've ever done that
<Klettbar> ssd express cards
<neuro> i always watch a movie to the end no matter what
<ali1234> there are blade runner sequal novels?
<Klettbar> i thin they ll be slower than sata
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner#Possible_follow-ups
<Klettbar> but if i find one for 99p
<mungbean> neuro: not sure i'll get to end of das boot toinght
<mungbean> a film must entertain, educate or inspire
<mungbean> or make me laugh
<mungbean> if none of those then in the bin
<Klettbar> what i s+1 ppenguin
<Klettbar> is +1
<penguin42> Klettbar: Raring
<neuro> Klettbar: express card can do 2.5Mbps
<penguin42> Klettbar: I.e. the next ubuntu
<mungbean> had a snooze around 5pm so i'm not sleeping till 2 at earliest toinght
<neuro> errrr
<neuro> Gbps, not Mbps
<neuro> 2.5Gbps
<neuro> penguin42: what's the animal again, I've forgotten?
<mungbean> ringtail
<neuro> bassariscus asutus
<neuro> interesting
<mungbean> today is the day for posting fake/doscredited photos on facebook
<mungbean> e.g back to the future day, this van is blocked by bollards , etc
<neuro> no, you're mistaking that with every day ever
<mungbean> today in particular
<neuro> pour quois?
<mungbean> and my INTJ personality wants to correct them all
<neuro> hehe
<mungbean> so i do :(
<neuro> i get snarked at for pointing at snopes and the like on facebook
<mungbean> sometimes i wonder how i found a wife
<neuro> "no, no, NO! just read this: <link to snopes> and it'll explain why what you've just posted is nonsense!"
<mungbean> http://www.october212015.com/
<ali1234> stop going on facebook
<neuro> stop going on it?
<mungbean> 7 days out of the womb and baby has a virus. thats faster than a win7 pc
<neuro> ba dum tsh
<Klettbar> stop turning on ur pc
<Klettbar> get a life go out
<neuro> uh oh
<Klettbar> :)
<mungbean> yeah its earth hour
<mungbean> ive hardly left the house all week
<neuro> Klettbar: you realise I can access Facebook from the outside?
<neuro> is it earth hour *right now*?
<Klettbar> what's a such earth hour
<popey> no idea
<neuro> or did i miss it again?
<Klettbar> left the mouse..you mean?
<neuro> Klettbar: http://www.earthhour.org/
<mungbean> some gimmick
<neuro> cripes, it *is* right now
<mungbean> finish in 1 min
<sebsebseb> if anyone
<neuro> ok, now, not so much
<sebsebseb> wants to see RMS talk live, from Libre Planet, now is your chance
<popey> Using only free codecs!
<neuro> aieeeeeeeee
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah the video is in a free format :d
<neuro> the bearded one!
<mungbean> rms is the every time isnt he?
 * sebsebseb met RMS on Thursday, talked to him breifly as well,  coudn't get his signature got refused heh heh
<neuro> right, mention of rms is definitely enough to make me want a cig, bbiab
<popey> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Live
<sebsebseb> popey: yep and the IRC channels of course
<mungbean> rms just losst me
<popey> hahahaha crapstore
<popey> SO FUNNY!
<mungbean> called it the crApp Store
<popey> (not)
<mungbean> eejit
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah, but your from a commerical distro to :d heh heh
<mungbean> i might do that in the pub occasionnally but im not a global "ambassador!"
<popey> sebsebseb: and?
<sebsebseb> popey: not saying I am agaisnt software stores though
<ali1234> apps store *are* crap though
<mungbean> i think its the aspergers in rms that compels him to do it
<sebsebseb> mungbean: what makes you think he has Aspergers?
<mungbean> all the signs
<sebsebseb> such as?
<mungbean> poor social skills, lack of tact or empathy, fixation around a particular cause, strongly polarised vuews, insistence on the gnu/linux, the RIDER, and the toe nail thing
<ali1234> empathy isn't the same thing as sympathy
<ali1234> just saying
<mungbean> correct
<mungbean> lack of empathy means he would walk into a room and turn up the air con without regard for anyone already there
<ali1234> no, because he might well know what he is doing and just not care
<mungbean> or demand things from everyone else to act in a certain way
<mungbean> yes, lack of empathy
<sebsebseb> popey: DRM should be illegal?
<sebsebseb> do you think so?
<popey> sebsebseb: hmm?
<mungbean> because if he's cold then he should think - how about others, are they comfortable now?
<sebsebseb> popey: or do you think it's good that it's on driving thorey CD's for example
<sebsebseb> popey: oh your not watching it anymore?
<ali1234> why?
<popey> i am watching / listening while making pancakes
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<popey> but I dont quite understand why you're asking me that
<popey> and damnit I have run out of flour
<sebsebseb> popey: since what he said his opinion
<sebsebseb> I was wondering about yours
<popey> my opinion doesn't matter
<ali1234> neither does RMS
<ali1234> but here we are
<popey> and what a great success the openmoko was
<mungbean> rms is a necessary boundary at the extreme miitant end of the free software spectrum
<popey> oh this will be good
<ali1234> i get kind of tired of hearing how terrible RMS is and how he does nothing for free software from people who do absolutely nothing for free software
<popey> parabolic antenna on your head
<sebsebseb> ali1234: he woudn't give me his signature since. wasn't asking for it in a very good way
<sebsebseb> ali1234: ,but after seeing his talk on Thursday, and then chatting to him breifly after
<sebsebseb> well he seems ok
<mungbean> if rms didnt exist they would gave to invent him
<mungbean> "DO NOT WRITE ON DOORS"
<mungbean> subliminal message
<mungbean> anything good in the kindle book sale?
<ali1234> "RMS sets a terrible example for FOSS movement. now excuse me while i go buy DRM ebooks from amazon and play angry birds on my iphone"
<popey> hah
<sebsebseb> ali1234: not FOSS as such
<sebsebseb> ali1234: he's  free software
<sebsebseb> ali1234: he doesn't like the term open source
<sebsebseb> he doesn't like the word open in general
<penguin42> sebsebseb: It's often misused in the way that 'democratic' is misued in country names
<ali1234> but free software is by definition open source, so i don't care what he thinks
<sebsebseb> more like free software and open source are similar
<sebsebseb> free software is more about the moral advantages gained by the code being availalbe
<sebsebseb> open source is more of a development model, and started by corporate people etc to save mone yetc
<sebsebseb> plus if you say free people think price usauly
<mungbean> ali1234: if you're talking about me, i never said that
<sebsebseb> not free as in freedom, and then what that means
<ali1234> mungbean: no i'm more having a dig at popey :)
<mungbean> i think RMS is a necessary character, and also a bit of a jerk sometimes
<sebsebseb> open source can be clearer to explain for those reasons though
<popey> âº
<daubers> so I want to run a project management thing with versioning on a server at home, other than Trac, does anyone have any suggestions of software to use?
<mungbean> he's undiplomatic and there could be a better ambassador in his place
<sebsebseb> mungbean: he's 60 now
<mungbean> but as a spokesman for digital freedom, then the message needs to be out there
<mungbean> DRM sucks
<mungbean> as indicated by my zinio problems earlier
<shauno> zinio can die in fire :/
<mungbean> but we have 2 choices, 1) don't buy 2) buy reluctantly (and maybe complain) but until there's 3) use a free vendor then what to do?
<ali1234> there are plenty of people who are much better "ambassadors"
<ali1234> for example jim zemlin
<sebsebseb> ali1234: Linus Torvalds doesn't impress me with his swearing
<mungbean> well he can be a jerk too
<mungbean> so can I
<ali1234> he's not out to impress anyone
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I don't think you need to swear like he does, publically
<ali1234> i am an adult and i can deal with it
<sebsebseb> ali1234: sure, but still
<mungbean> scandies tend to swear a LOT
<mungbean> in my experience
<sebsebseb> mungbean:not so sure about that, as a half Sweed
<sebsebseb> altough lived in England most of my life so
<ali1234> and here's another hot topic
<mungbean> ali1234: is he back on? i closed it
<sebsebseb> mungbean: sound gone off
<sebsebseb> on it
<sebsebseb> people moving about still though
<ali1234> mungbean: no, criticism of linus
<popey> where "hot topic" means "things that annoy ali1234"?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> ok
<ali1234> things that usually turn into an argument
<sebsebseb> ali1234: Linus  is so so speical, really?  no not quite
<ali1234> this whole "nerds have bad social skills" meme
<ali1234> it's not true
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I guess we would have been using Hurd instead if L inux hadn't come along
<sebsebseb> for a start
<sebsebseb> or BSD maybe?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Yeh sure the Hurd will be ready by 2038...
<sebsebseb> and LInus fusses a lot about which desktop envrionment he is using and such publically
<sebsebseb> as well
<sebsebseb> and what disro at times ossbily even
<mungbean> not surprised
<ali1234> so what?
<sebsebseb> which people generally like following, but yeah there we go he's like the rest of us for that
<sebsebseb> like the rest of us, he has to pick a distro, and what to use in it
<ali1234> that's what a normal person would do
<mungbean> if i was linus i would be annoyed at the gnome guys
<shauno> it's getting there.  hurd actually has sata support now!
<sebsebseb> mungbean: GNOME 3.8 has some itneresting improvement it seemsems
<sebsebseb> going by sites etc
<sebsebseb> I trieed to vm a development ISO ,but issues, reminds I will try  again with the later one
<sebsebseb> I guess
<mungbean> if so, then its a U turn
<sebsebseb> or just burn to CD, anyway March 27th is final release
<mungbean> elementary desktop ticks all my boxes now
<ali1234> the problem is that people like linus and RMS have been elevated to personalities by the people currently trying to push "openness"
<mungbean> in the same way as gnome2+docky used to
<ali1234> shock horror, they're just normal people with opinions and bad habits
<mungbean> yes
<sebsebseb> ali1234: they get looked up to etc, if that's what you mean
<popey> ahhh docky
<popey> and awn
<popey> happy days
<sebsebseb> ali1234: people are like, oh wo LInus does thsi, oh wow RMS does that
<sebsebseb> ali1234: if that's what you mean?
<ali1234> yes. why do people do that?
<mungbean> role models
<sebsebseb> ali1234: indeed he's like anyone else really, when not doing his software stuff if you like
<sebsebseb> ali1234: RMS that is
<sebsebseb> I mean I met him on Thursday saw a talk and etc as I already put
<mungbean> where was that sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> Bath
<sebsebseb> University
<mungbean> i was gonna say
<sebsebseb> what you knew about that or?
<mungbean> doesn't look like he's had one
<sebsebseb> uh been to uni as a student you mean or?
<mungbean> no i was just making obvious joke about baths and RMS
<ali1234> does anyone remember that harry enfield sketch?
<mungbean> i like how there's a book called "get rich blogging"
<ali1234> "you don't want to do it like that"
<mungbean> page 1 : write a book about blogging, and sell it
<mungbean> get rich stuffing envelopes: send Â£10 in an envelope to this address
<ali1234> people who criticise open source are just like that guy
<mungbean> what u mean criticise open source?
<mungbean> the devs or the dev model, or the actual software
<ali1234> the people who say "RMS/linus are terrible role models"
<mungbean> well, everyone's an armchair football manager
<mungbean> they can all pick a team better than arsene wenger
<ali1234> where were they 15 years ago when free software was not trendy?
<mungbean> or so they thinik
<mungbean> mac is trendy, is OSS?
<ali1234> yes, extremely
<popey> compared to 15 years ago, yes
<popey> Oh, are we still having a dig at me btw?
<ali1234> massively so
<popey> (just so I know)
<mungbean> must be the drink talking
<ali1234> popey: sort of :)
<popey> ok
 * popey thinks back 15 years
<mungbean> i was installing my first distro 15 years ago
<mungbean> on a corporate server \o/
<ali1234> were you complaining abut linus and RMS back then?
<ali1234> if so, you turned out to be wrong
<mungbean> i'm not complaining about them. (not sure if aimed at popey ornot)
<popey> I was working on SAP
<popey> I think.
<ali1234> and another thing
<mungbean> i noticed a windows8 for dummies. onthe front cover it said "20 books in 1 book". no , they are chapters you dummy
<ali1234> sexism in computing
<ali1234> another hot topic
<mungbean> lol at whats coming
<mungbean> that story
<mungbean> my guess is she was anti beard. they were the only beareded guys
<ali1234> i content that this is a problem which has been brought by the newcomers
<shauno> 15 years ago, I was still using linux on the desktop  (in the losest sense, sans-X, but it was my desktop)
<ali1234> 15 years ago free software was only for the people so uncool that nobody cared what they thought or did
<mungbean> the most sexist guys at my workplace are the neckbeards. anecdotal evidence only
<mungbean> one of them has been trolling and being sexist for the last 40 years
<mungbean> not just jokes but he truly believes the girl in the team is incapable of advanced tasks
 * popey wonders if ali1234  is on the linux elitest mailing list
<penguin42> hey just because I have a mile long beard it doesn't make me sexist
<mungbean> so gives her the tedious stuff and keeps the interesting stuff for him and his chubby mate
<ali1234> popey: i am not elite enough to know what the mailing list is
<mungbean> one of the neckbeards is clean shaven
<ali1234> but this is kind of the problem
<ali1234> suddenly, if you were using linux 15 years ago, you are elite
<ali1234> 15 years ago it meant you were a sad git
<ali1234> what changed?
<popey> http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
<ali1234> not the sad gits that's for sure
<ali1234> and i'm not sure why anyone thinks they would
<mungbean> if you were using linux 15 years ago it was because sun boxes were expensive :P
<penguin42> hmm, lets see I think 19 years here :-)
<ali1234> like, to expect them to suddenly turn into rock stars is ... well, why would anyone expect that?
<mungbean> RMS has a rock star li8festyle, sleeping on couches and international flight to gigs
<mungbean> just don't buy him a parrot
<ali1234> we should start sending him toy parrots
<ali1234> LOADS of them
<mungbean> rock stars and footballers are the wprst role models
<ali1234> wouldn't it be funny if every day he got like 100 stuffed parrot toys delivered?
<mungbean> and politicians are worse still
<ali1234> anyway, model citizens let's say
<popey> 1002:68b8 - whats the best driver to use for those?
<popey> ATI card
<popey> on ubuntu 12.04
<mungbean> 129 for a kindle fire, thats dirt cheap
<mungbean> oh, 139 without ads
<mungbean> hate the UI though
<ali1234> nobody actually posts on linux-elitists
<ali1234> this does not really surprise me in that old school linux users are not elitist at all
<ali1234> they generally don't attempt to impose unrealistic standards of behaviour on each other
<ali1234> and in fact generally could not care less what anyone else does
<mungbean> launcher takes so long to launch, if i accidentally hit super-tab instead of alt-tab, i think my cimputer is frozen
<bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
<mungbean> ciao
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Slept from 6 to 9.30. Missed tea. What do I do now?
<mungbean> fry  up
 * bigcalm drinks more from his ale
<bigcalm> Mmmm, tempting
<bigcalm> Don't think my better half would approve though
<shauno> you slept until beer o'clock.  and now you worry about your SO approval rating?
<mungbean> i just had tinned strawbs and choc custard
<mungbean> oohh, zinio reader now working with an older adobe air 2.5 version
<mungbean> can't find the downloaded pdfs though
<MooDoo> evening all
<neuro> I HAVE CIGARETTES \o/
<neuro> i caught a bit of rms before i went out
<neuro> saw the "crap store" dig too
<MooDoo> did Tim Cook kill a kitten ;)
<neuro> to me it's like a 12 year old saying "MICRO$OFT", it's childish
<neuro> MooDoo: nah, just rms being his usual self
<MooDoo> he'll never change
<neuro> remember, this is the guy who basically said "i'm not happy that Steve Jobs is dead, but I'm happy he's gone"
<MooDoo> yeah I remember
<neuro> i know he'll never change
<neuro> i just hope that he becomes less relevant
<neuro> i'm not even sure what rms actually does these days, other than roam the planet attempting to evangelise
<MooDoo> think you hit the nail on the head
<neuro> there are hundreds, if not thousands of better evangelists than him in the floss community, and they all *do* stuff *as well as* evangelise
<neuro> they actually contribute constructively
<neuro> either by talking, coding, shepherding or writing
<neuro> or supporting
<neuro> i never see evidence of rms doing this now
<MooDoo> he just walks, talks and occasionally plays the recorder lol
<neuro> it's a shame, as what he built is an epic thing
<neuro> don't forget the hard disk platter on the head
<MooDoo> well he'll never be forgotten that's for sure
<neuro> oh absolutely
<neuro> imagine if linux had been developed under, say, a BSD licence
<shauno> that's why I quit donating to the fsf.  feels like they just troll now
<neuro> not sure it would have managed to attract as much attention as it has
<mungbean> can anyone see inside thiss file? http://ubuntuone.com/3AG5RuI3DeDR9LE0dN1YhP
<mungbean> it's a page from zinio magazine
<mungbean> allegedly a swf but i'm not sure
<MooDoo> people will eventually stop listening....
<mungbean> the app saves a low res jpg and then when u zoom it uses something else
<neuro> wget says it's application/x-shockwave-flash
<neuro> chrome just gives me a blank page
<MooDoo> same in FF
<neuro> i presume it's an swf loaded by a master flash app
<mungbean> yeah me too
<mungbean> sucks
<neuro> strings just throws out garbage
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-24
<mungbean> encrypted?
<MooDoo> ok night all, suppose i better go to bed seeing as I'm at work tomorrow :D
<mungbean> i have a crypto key
<shauno> doesn't look like flash to me.  or if it is, they've altered it
<neuro> i think it's data to be used by a flash app, rather than standalone
<mungbean> the android app simply has encrypted pdfs
<neuro> shauno: the nail in the coffin for me, as far as the FSF are concerned, was that defective by design campaign where they advocated swamping Apple Store Genius Bars with appointments
<mungbean> it must be a pdf somewhere
<shauno> for a flash file, the first three characters should be FWS.  this has ZNO, which sounds like it may not be coincidentally close to zinio
<mungbean> ooh
<mungbean> telegraph are reporting on the chinonical story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9948817/China-develops-national-open-source-operating-system.html
<shauno> eh, they've done this before, with little effect.  'red flag linux' was based off redhat instead
<penguin42> shauno: With little effect - was it not much used internally either?
<shauno> only seems to have been used places they could force it by mandate
<shauno> but for the big picture, windows is essentially free software there still
<shauno> if they want to actually make a difference, they have to attack it from both directions.  make a decent push against piracy, and offer a good alternative
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> shauno: And with Ubuntu tending to be excellent in i18n I'd hope there is very little to do to actually make it work well in Chinese?
<shauno> couldn't tell you, haven't used it as a desktop since .. 8.06?
<ali1234> gnome-panel #neverquit #yolo #swag
<ali1234> hatersgonnahate.gif
<shauno> nah, none of that. the timing was more apple's move to intel
<ali1234> ls
<ali1234> ARGH
<ali1234> i wish gnome-terminal would hide the cursor when window is not active
<shauno> mine changes to a 'hollow' cursor.  frequently isn't enough either :/
<ali1234> i'm sure mine used to
<ali1234> in fact i'm sure it used to be an option
<ali1234> rebuilding... over and over again
<ali1234> grumbleg grumble minw32 cross compiler is broken...
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21913847 i half expected horse
<popey> morning
<SuperMatt> this morning I want to stab X
<SuperMatt> because I can't have 3 screens on two graphics cards using one X session :(
<redtape-renegade> morning all
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, & popey Didn't Azelphur have a picture of Ubuntu having use on 3 screens using his new table setup recently ?
<redtape-renegade> or was that the joke ?
<SuperMatt> I'm sure he did it, but you need a graphics card with three outputs
<SuperMatt> I have two with two each
<MartijnVdS> formula 1 time!
<MartijnVdS> <Turns on radio>
<MartijnVdS> I can only watch it in German, unless I pay â¬15/month for the "sports" package...
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Can't you stick some tin foil in the sky socket, or something to fix it ?
<SuperMatt> you know what's interesting? I've used a lot of command line tools to get stuff done in ubuntu, that I've often missed improvements in desktop tools
<popey> MartijnVdS: its not on bbc1?
<popey> ah no
<popey> redtape-renegade: Azelphur has lots of screens
<redtape-renegade> popey, Yes I do recall watching his desk album unfold on dropbox a while ago .. I hope he got all he wanted out of it.
 * redtape-renegade wonders if B&Q will be open today [??]
<popey> our local one is on sunday
<redtape-renegade> they never update their website about the weather affecting opening hours ;(
<redtape-renegade> popey, they're own by KingFisher aren't they ?
<redtape-renegade> ***owned . by
<popey> hah
<popey> B&Q Advert just came on the radio
<redtape-renegade> what station ?
<popey> a local one here
<redtape-renegade> in farnham ?
<popey> london
<redtape-renegade> oh . that could be Capital , idunno.
<redtape-renegade> news should be on now anyway.
<popey> heart
<redtape-renegade> ahh .. you speak the language of the the Cree
<popey> i try to avoid commercial radio
<popey> but on sunday mornings radio 2 and radio 4 are full of religious nonsense
<redtape-renegade> yep, our local one is going mental over 9 inches of snow ! It's major news.
<redtape-renegade> Yay.. an ICT university in Douglas !
<redtape-renegade> popey , How was your Earth Hour at 8.30pm last night .. Did the earth shatter for you [sic] ??
<popey> i had no idea it was earth hour until mungbean mentioned it
<redtape-renegade> yeah, thought so. It was buzy on this channel last night, I see.
<kvarley> Probably a bad place to ask, but does anybody here know Access?
<redtape-renegade> isn't that for kids ?
<kvarley> lol, yes
<kvarley> fixed my issue
<kvarley> I hate Access with a passion - just required to use it for uni
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, Surely, You want to use the free Oracle one / package don't you ?
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: I have to use Access because that's what they'll mark it on
<redtape-renegade> 'they' ?
<kvarley> the tutors
<redtape-renegade> of where ?
<kvarley> University
<redtape-renegade> of where ?
<redtape-renegade> i gio to university all the time .. its called My World ^_^
<redtape-renegade> Aaaw my stomach is killing me .. must be the Eggs I had .
<redtape-renegade> it keeps taking to me like some monster off Classic DooM.
 * redtape-renegade kills the   Mancubus with porridge, syrup and sultana's.    | http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Mancubus
<MartijnVdS> Time to play around with the rpi a bit more! :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<kvarley> \0
<brobostigon> morning kvarley
<kvarley> How's it going?
<brobostigon> could be better. and you?
<kvarley> Same, currently dealing with Microsoft Access for a uni project
<brobostigon> :(
<kvarley> It's an uphill struggle, they ignore standards and make stuff purposely hard to do
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's easy as long as you have ALL the MS tools and use ONLY those
<MartijnVdS> oh wow.. this _older_ (& slower) SD card is actually more responsive than the new/Class 10 card
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ok, two things that really annoy me so far. 1) Once you've made your relationships you can't change the tables at all without removing the relationships. 2) For some reason -1 = Yes
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: -1 = not 0 = true ;)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: But hnaibguadgkldgjdksh
<kvarley> lol
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I agree, just trying to find a way of thinking in which it would make sense :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Makes sense, but still .. They crazy
<kvarley> Is there a IRC channel for the touch part of the OS?
<kvarley> Ah, got it
<kvarley> Is there a better tablet to get other than the Nexus 10? I'm looking to run Ubuntu when it gets more stable
<kvarley> Can't find anything that beats it on it's I/O, display and processor in one package. They all seem to do them seperately
<popey> I'd wait till Google IO, see what gets announced
<ali1234> nexus 10 is a premium item. so is the new chromebook.
<ali1234> you won't find anything better, except perhaps whatever replaces them :)
<kvarley> popey: When is google i/o? My tablet died yesterday :(
<kvarley> ali1234: do you have one? :)
<ali1234> no
<kvarley> Do you thin I should get a keyboard + touchpad bluetooth setup or just a bluetooth keyboard?
<ali1234> no point
<ali1234> just get a tablet
<popey> kvarley: you had a kindle fire?
<popey> why not file a support request?
<Azelphur> gah, tax people are crazy, they are trying to say bitcoin trading is subject to VAT
<popey> why would it not be?
<ali1234> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm#9
<ali1234> that's why
<ali1234> "Financial services including the issue, transfer or receipt                  of, or dealing with money, securities for money or orders for                  the payment of money"
<ali1234> VAT exempt
<Azelphur> indeed, it should be
<Azelphur> popey: on that basis high volume traders would have to pay 20%, which is just totally unprofitable in financial tradings
<ali1234> "The issue, transfer or dealing with a security" - VAT exempt
<Azelphur> the profit margin is 5%ish, asking us to pay 20% would be -15% profit, time to shut down and no tax for anybody.
<ali1234> you need a better accountant
<ali1234> and probably a better lawyer when it ends up in court, which it will
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmpjyym7xztqygx/IMG_20130324_131647.jpg is what HMRC are saying
<Azelphur> (letter to one of the other uk traders, not me)
<kvarley> popey: I had a first gen fire from america
<kvarley> So I can't claim on warranty
<ali1234> Azelphur: that letter doesn't say whether you have o pay VAT on bitcoin trades or not
<ali1234> it just says you have to be VAT registered
<Azelphur> oh, ok
<ali1234> that is different
<Azelphur> crisis averted maybe ;)
<ali1234> well, it says in their opinion bitcoins are vouchers
<ali1234> which are not exempt
<ali1234> but that's just their opinion
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> they obviously arn't vouchers xD
<ali1234> why is it obvious?
<ali1234> i mean HMRC are going to say whatever they can to get more money
<ali1234> what's the counter argument?
<Azelphur> Voucher: A small printed piece of paper that entitles the holder to a discount or that may be exchanged for goods or services.
<ali1234> yep i agree they are not vouchers, actually
<ali1234> since vouchers are backed by a single entity
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> and have a fixed value denominated in some other currency
<ali1234> now, are you willing to go to court over it?
<Azelphur> I think most of the UK traders would be, between us we have quite a bit of clout
<ali1234> then, have fun
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> and get a lawyer
<Azelphur> that said, if it does go that far, I am so going to make the point that it's ridiculous that they are punishing us for trying to pay them xD
<DJones> Possibly if trading in Bitcoinswhere subject to VAT, it would only be the fee that was liable to VAT anyway, so if the profit margin was 5%, you'd need to be trading in about Â£1.5M of bitcoins to generate total commission of Â£75000 before you'd get anywhere near the vat registration threshold
<Azelphur> scumbag azelphur, tries to do the right thing, ends up in court.
<ali1234> djones raises a good point
<ali1234> this stuff is complicated
<ali1234> this is why you need a good accountant and a good lawyer
<Azelphur> DJones: I thought VAT was on volume rather than profit
<DJones> UNless they deemed it purchasing bitcoins and reselling them at a profit
<Azelphur> if they want 20% of my /profit/ that's absolutely possible, I can do that
<Azelphur> if they want 20% of the value of everything I trade, that's impossible because it's about 4x what I earn
<Azelphur> but yea, I'm gonna get an accountant to fix this for me
<DJones> Azelphur: It depends how it was decided, if you buy goods/services & resell them at a profit (eg a shop) then you'd be able to claim the vat you pay on buying the goods & have to declare the vat on the selling price
<Azelphur> hopefully, anyway :)
<Azelphur> DJones: yea, but even then, 20% is just impossible
<Azelphur> the margin between my buy and sell is around 5%
<Azelphur> definitely gonna get my own accountant though, see what I can do with it
<DJones> You'd need a good accountant & lawyer (and probably barrister as well) if they pushed the argument that they were vouchers
<Azelphur> \o/
 * DJones see's Â£'s disappearing from Azelphur's wallet
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> at least (in theory) the cost would be shared between all of us
<ali1234> http://www.ukgcva.co.uk/downloads/factsheets/fs_vat.pdf
<ali1234> âface-value voucherâ means atoken, stamp or voucher (whether in physical orelectronic form) that represents a right to receivegoods or services to the value of an amountstated on it or recorded in it.
<Azelphur> yep, it doesn't fit that definition either
<ali1234> retailer vouchers - These are face value vouchers where the issuerand redeemer of the goods and services is thesame person. On retailer vouchers, VAT isaccounted for on the value at which thevoucher is sold, at the point of redemption.
<ali1234> so that does not fit
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> and even if it did, not vat until it is redeemed
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> if it is a credit voucher however, "VAT is accounted for on the full facevalue of the voucher, at the point the voucher isredeemed"
<ali1234> so what is the face value of a bitcoin?
<Azelphur> there isn't a face value of a bitcoin xD
<ali1234> well, this is the angle here. they don't have a face value
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> if you never redeem the vouchers, i don't see why you ever have to pay vat
<Azelphur> there's also a hilarious point that you can never find out whether a bitcoin has been redeemed due to the nature of the system
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> yes, it can never be "redeemed"
<Azelphur> oh yea, that's a good point, it never can be redeemed lol
<DJones> That could be a double edged sword though, most "goods for sale" don't have a "face value" and a business selling them would charge vat on them on sale
<ali1234> well, none of us knows the answer that's for sure
<ali1234> in fact nobody does
<ali1234> the laws just don't cover it
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> hopefully I'll get some better answers from an accountant
<ali1234> depends if they are any good or not
<Azelphur> xD
<DJones> Azelphur: http://btclag.org/?p=16
<ali1234> even if you consider it a voucher i don't see that you have to pay VAT, unless it is used to purchase goods, and then VAT is due on the value of the goods
<DJones> Other things to consider, if its treated as a currency, you would probably need to register with the Financial Services Authorities and have to comply with money laundering regulations
<Azelphur> yea, we expect to need to follow AML stuff
<DJones> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66774.20
<DJones> Post 32 might be worthing looking at
<Azelphur> yea, I'm buying and selling rather than brokering :(
<DJones> That does seem to play into the HMRC's hands in a way, if you buy from a private individual, they couldn't charge you vat (which you'd be able to reclaim) but when you sold, you'd have to pay vat at 20% on the sale price (Always assuming that bitcoins ended up being classed as vatable)
<DJones> Bag of worms springs to mind
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> imo it's no different to playing forex
<Azelphur> or being a currency exchange and taking a %, they sure as hell don't take 20% on exchange xD
<DJones> Personally, I'd agree with that assessment, but its tax authorities and whether it is a true currency
<Azelphur> yea
<daubers> Weeeeeeeeeeeeee, my raspberry pi works
<newbie45> sdf
<daubers> So, are private github accounts worth the $7 a month?
<kvarley> This is a helpful message Google "Currency fluctuations and bank fees may affect the final amount charged to you."
<kvarley> I'm being charged in GBP
<kvarley> So no idea what charges they mean
<meet> does pidgin integrate with unity as well as empathy does?
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> Thinking of trying Mutt
<SuperEngineer> ..should I go for plain Mutt [Ubuntu supported] or mutt-patched [unsupported]?
<sebsebseb> hi
<SuperEngineer> o/
<mungbean> \o
<popey> Evening
<popey> mungbean: decided what to do about your tablet?
<mungbean> :( i ordered a new charger, will find out in couple of days
<mungbean> if not, then will try the tpdebricker
<mungbean> which is risky, especially if not bricked
<mungbean> if both fail then i will cry and buy a nex7, although i like 10 inch tablet
<mungbean> but we are single income family and all Â£Â£ goes to home, hence tech budget is low
<mungbean> wondering which film to watch tonight. das boot only lasted 1hr until i got bored
<mungbean> i span up adnroidx86 to try zinio reader on it, but is crashy
<penguin42> mungbean: Perhaps you just needed to come up for air?
<mungbean> i have the following to choose from: joyeux noel (about 1st WW chrimstas ceasefire), Bombon el perro, Che, The Ghost, or 300
<mungbean> or tales from earthsea, but don't think i bother with that
<penguin42> well I don't know any of them, I guess 300 might be worth a go
<mungbean> i watched spiral series 4 last week - best telly i've seen all year (since the killing)
<ali1234> not 300
<ali1234> it's rubbish
<ali1234> haven't seen any of the others
<ali1234> 300 is ok i guess, if you haven't seen it, and you want to see a load of memes in their original context
<mungbean> if i watch a subtitled film then i have to turn off laptop
<mungbean> not a bad thing
<mungbean> i fancy watching dune again but its at bottom of my dvd box
<popey> not seen that for years
<mungbean> noiideep
<ali1234> haha dune
<popey> boo, not on netflix
<mungbean> fail
<ali1234> people reckon it's bad, i don't know why, i think it's good
<mungbean> its good if u aint read the book
<ali1234> it's better if you have
<mungbean> worst book->film i ever saw was catch22
<ali1234> dredd (3D) is good
<ali1234> i saw that the other day
<mungbean> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0244479/ just found in the box, is good
<directhex> yikes. insane jump in bitcoin difficulty. you spotted that, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> I havn't, but that'll likely be because there are 3 asics in the wild, so to be expected.
<AlanBell> proper asics, not just fpgas?
<ali1234> yes, proper ones
<AlanBell> gosh
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I have 3 of em on preorder, big dollar :P
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: [yawn]
<Azelphur> lol
<SuperEngineer> that's boasting
<ali1234> i spent the past two days trying to figure out why cmake refuse tolink libraries properly and now it is linking everything twice
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5644435/
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: if only you'd spent just one day figuring... there's an obvious correlation
<ali1234> mingw takes forever to link OgreMain.dll as well
<ali1234> i mean 10 minutes just to link
<ali1234> on linux it takes about 5 seconds
 * SuperEngineer remembers the "good ol' days" of compliling & linking in Cliiper
<Myrtti> I recon the selection for the UK customers of Netflix is somehow really crippled
<popey> yeah
<Myrtti> because even Finland has better
<Myrtti> I totally watched Dune from Netflix
<mungbean> still feeding baby, so the dune dvd is still in thestorage boxx:(
<mungbean> found my dune dvd, ooh special edition
<mungbean> lost the dvd remote :(
<Myrtti> http://retrominer.com/
<dwatkins> haha, is there a network interface for the NES, though?
<SuperEngineer> bfn folks
<dwatkins> ah I see, cunning
 * dwatkins assumes the Pi is more powerful than the NES, but it was an interesting challenge
<mungbean> can't get this tune out of my head http://www.gruffalo.com/chorus/index.html
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-17
<MooDoo> morning all
<constrictor> morning
<jussi> huomenta :)
<jussi> MooDoo: how was the weekend?  (and you are a little late, no? )
<MooDoo> jussi: it was fine and yes, I am, normally on a lot earlier lol
<MooDoo> what about yourself?
<jussi> not bad, generally relaxing, football team won (Liverpool) what else can I say? :P
<MooDoo> sounds a good weekend.
<mapps> morning
<shauno> o/
<mapps> liverpool? pff
<mapps> i thought you're not even from the uk:)
<MooDoo> mapps: someone has to support them
<mapps> :D
<jussi> mapps: Im not! but why do you htink I hang out in this channel... ?
<mapps> because you wish you were;]
<mapps> or the ubuntu-fi chan is empty?:P
<jussi> mapps: meh, writing finnish is hard. Im actually a misplaced Aussie :P
<jussi> actually, I hang out here because popey is awesome :P (nah, maybe just because I like you lot)
<MooDoo> jussi: ok you're crazy
<MooDoo> ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: he's what you get when you mix Finnish and Dutch, I guess?
<jussi> MooDoo: because I like people here?
<MartijnVdS> wait, Finnish Dutch AND Aussie
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MooDoo> jussi: yea of course, we're all nuts ;)
<Knightwi1e> morning everyone
<jussi> hrm, what is "unary"? (reading about operator precedence in C)
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_operation
<MooDoo> :p
<MartijnVdS> jussi: operators with only one operand (things like "not $foo" -> not only acts on one thing)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: ahh, excellent, thanks
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<mapps> morning popey
<mapps> 16 episodes in unde 3 days:D
<mapps> il be able to finish arrow s1 by thee end of the day hoorah
<MooDoo> huzzah!
<dwatkins> I quite like Arrow
<mapps> where you upto on it
<MooDoo> I love it
<dwatkins> I'm very naughty, so am completely up-to-date on Arrow.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: me too shhhh
<mapps> il be upto date soon:D
<dwatkins> It's a good month for telly, what with Cosmos, Continuum and Once Upon a Time coming back.
<mapps> hmm never seen cosmos or continum
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> continuum is awesome
<mapps> morning diplo
<dwatkins> yep http://nancygriffis.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/continuum01.jpg
<MooDoo> hello diplo
<diplo> Hasn't continuum been cancelled?
<mapps> hm
<dwatkins> not sure, diplo - the wikipedia page just says about renewal for season 3
<MooDoo> nope, returned last night in the US didn't it?
<dwatkins> yep
<diplo> oh, I'll have to look that up
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<mapps> 16 down 17 coming up
<mapps> :D
<mapps> gonna finish s1 today then stop
<shauno> wish the producers had done that :/
<mapps> s2 sucks?
<shauno> s2 couldn't hold my attention. ymmv, of course
<jussi> I have the S3, its decent.... wait a sec, what are we talking about? :P
<mapps> s3 lol s2 hasnt finished
<mapps> :P
<mapps> silly jussi
<mapps> tv series..arrow;p
<mapps> not phones :)
<jussi> mapps: :D
<jussi> how do I figure out which FS is being used and $usb_HDD
<jussi> ?
<mapps> what do you mean ? fdisk will show u the fs?
<jussi> mapps: be more precise...
<mapps> fdisk /dev/sdxX and then fdisk will show you the fs
<mapps> if you dont know th device could check dmesg
<mapps> but what did you mean by $usb_HDD whys it a variabl
<foobarry> type mount
<mapps> yea that too
<mapps> i like fdisk ;[ mount output is messy
<jussi> hrm
<jussi> now this is strange...
<mapps> >?
<shauno> I'm a sucker for abusing 'file' in such situations.  file -s /dev/sd* gives a surprisingly useful amount of info about most fs
<jussi> from fdisk...
<jussi> Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
<jussi> /dev/sdb1              63   488392064   244196001    b  W95 FAT32
<jussi> from mount
<jussi> /dev/sdb1 on /media/jussi/LaCie type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks2)
<jussi> wot?
<diplo> Something in fstab trying to mount as ext3 maybe ?
<mapps> fat32
<shauno> it could quite easily be ext3.  buy a disk that comes formatted as fat32, mkfs it because it's not 1998 anymore, et voila.
<jussi> shauno: that is precisely what I remember to have done, but wanted to confirm. (was sometime back). now IM confuzzled
<mapps> id have thought itd be ntfs if a big sized usb hdd
<shauno> mkfs won't change the partition structure
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i know
<mapps> :)
 * jussi gets over it and guesses ext3, then goes back to failing to learn to code in C.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bashrc_> monday morning...
<MooDoo> bashrc_: correct 1 point ;)
<bigcalm> Is now a good time to do this?
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<popey> \o/
<popey> ticket booked
<bigcalm> Woot
<bigcalm> popey: did you get an error after paying with paypal?
<popey> no, i got a "press button to complete purchase" with no button
<popey> but got the confirmation mail anyway
<bigcalm> Nice
<bigcalm> Dave2 and I both got PHP errors :)
<popey> sweet
<bigcalm> But we also got confirmation emails
<jussi> it got cold again here :/
<jussi> we had like +10 degrees just the other day, now its -15 again :/
<bigcalm> Crazy Finnish weather
<brobostigon> yes, it was 17c here yesterday.
<jussi> Ive a random question for all those here who drive... what "electronic" peice would you most like to see in your car?
<brobostigon> peice ?
<Myrtti> coffeemaker.
<diplo> Sound/Video system, so I can hook up kids screens and music for front end, it's on my todo list this year hopefully
<shauno> autopilot
<popey> I dont spend long enought in my car to care
<jussi> Myrtti: :D
<popey> my car can go for a week or two without being used
<bigcalm> I had an DAB radio added to my car, so I have everything that I need
<bigcalm> popey: the good/bad of working from home
<jussi> ok, so now, think about it this way. forget the entertainment system. what else would be nice?
<shauno> I'm not sure I want 'driverless' to be mandatory, but haven fallen asleep with cruise control on before, I can see the use as an option
<brobostigon> i would probably setup my nexus7 on the dash, like a kind of hud.
<popey> i nearly fell asleep in the car, pulled over into services, stopped the car in the car park, seat back arms back, sleep...
<popey> woke 30 mins later and thought my arms had been severed, they'd gone to sleep behind my head
<bigcalm> I'd like cruse control to be removed from cars. My car has that and a speed limiter setting. Set the speed I want, get my foot into a comfortable position and that's all I need
<brobostigon> lol
<jussi> popey: hahah, Ive done that also
<dwatkins> I've spent in morotway services before, a powernap at 6am prior to heading to work on the way back from Edinburgh to Reading.
<bigcalm> I've also nearly fallen asleep while driving back from Farnham. Very glad I found a sort of layby in the woods to have a nap
<popey> i saw "layby" as "lady"
<bigcalm> Heh
<shauno> this was in the states.  cruise control, no corners, 20hr round trip to go to a funeral the next state over ... so many bad choices
<bigcalm> It was the gate area for a BT or electric building thing. That and it being a Sunday, I could have stayed there all day
<popey> I was playing quite a bit of OpenSpades at the weekend
<popey> That game is _awesome_
<popey> you would like it bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: any screen shots?
<popey> sure
<popey> lemme fire it up and get better ones than the ones I previously took
<jussi> aww, no alanbell this morning?
<bigcalm> Okay :)
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i was trying linux mint in virtual box and its freezing after i select boot
<bigcalm> It wants you to stay with Ubuntu
<popey> bigcalm: http://imgur.com/YL1xeAU,wDwuQ2T,KoX79pb,AeCiBXM,B0yKgFU,B0V53JW,RUF94kc,rVEfpEO,JGqeKea,f74StGy,zE81avw,pE1YMsB
<popey> you can build and destroy, but buildings have physics, so if you take out the bottom of a building, it falls over
<popey> see pic 2 for a building in mid collapse
<popey> and #9 for a tree in mid collapse â»
<mapps> i just wanted to try it not switching to lm:)
<jussi> popey: damn you and your fun games! :P
<bigcalm> popey: most interesting :)
<popey> I'd not heard of it before friday
<popey> apparently it's an open source implementation of Ace Of Spades
<bigcalm> Lemmy is a coder now?
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> Humm. As Hayley isn't with me for the RAT. Do I still book the Monday off and drive back then, or just come home on the Sunday?
<foobarry> native or wine atm?
<foobarry> trying to boot a sun server running linux..
<foobarry> root (hd1,0)                                                                     Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
<foobarry> kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-308.8.2.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 rhgb quiet
<foobarry> crashkernel=128M@16M
<foobarry> ï¿½ï¿½
<foobarry> last thing i see on the console. any ideas
<davmor2> Morning all
<dwatkins> does it actually have a volume group to boot from, foobarry? Sounds like it's a display problem - parhaps the OS actually does boot - can you ssh into it, ping it etc.?
<dwatkins> in my experience, linux on Sun or SGI hardware tends to have issues with displaying much more than the console.
<foobarry> dwatkins: can't ping :(
<foobarry> but the redirection might not be working properly
<foobarry> and i'm not physically at screen
<dwatkins> you might need to add a boot option to have it output to the console somewhere
<jussi> wow, that was fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3vTjhu35hk
<MooDoo> | count(*) |
<MooDoo> +----------+
<MooDoo> I hate right click in irssi
<jussi> hehe
<dwatkins> mine asks if I want to paste.
<foobarry> i'm scared to try
<foobarry> me too
<foobarry> middle click pastes
<foobarry> pipe 5
<foobarry> phew
<mapps> sweet
<bigcalm> jussi: wow
<dwatkins> paste_verify_line_count = 5
<dwatkins> Ask you whether you meant to paste something if it's longer than this many lines.
<mapps> my firefox os phgone arrived
<dwatkins> paste_detect_time = 5msecs
<dwatkins> Irssi will detect pastes when your input has less than this much time between lines.
<dwatkins> those should help. http://www.irssi.org/documentation/settings
<jussi> bigcalm: pretty amazing, right?
<bigcalm> jussi: cheeky
<jussi> bigcalm: bet you didnt see the volvo coming back like that... :D
<foobarry> i knew he would
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: this double screensaver thing is starting to become annoying :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: indeed
<foobarry> coming home on m25 last night. silver merc in outside lane driving at <65 , occasionally tapping brakes with clear road in front
<foobarry> broke the whole motorway system
<bigcalm> jussi: I thought he had the edge before the commentators saw it. But, no, not expected
<foobarry> middle lane was undertaking because you couldn't do much else , and outside lane bunched up, and waiting to undertake
<bigcalm> I love it when the hard shoulder on the M6 is opened up due to congestion. It means I get to under take everybody because so few will actually use the extra lane
<foobarry> higher risk of punctures on hard shoulder
<bigcalm> True
<bigcalm> I think they keep it pretty clear though
<foobarry> changed my headlmap bulb at weekend. although it took 15 mins, the effort involved iis ridiculous
<foobarry> i'd rather change a keyboard in a laptop
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I have to take a number 10 spanner to my wife's headlamps to get inside the light cluster. Most annoying
<foobarry> fnar fnar
<foobarry> wife's headlamps
<bigcalm> "wife's headlamps" is not a euphemism :P
<bigcalm> Damn, beat me to it
<davmor2> bigcalm: what car
<bigcalm> Limbo OST is on Spotify \o/ http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/2Y6BmbitkuJ7GcJxofKvSh
<bigcalm> davmor2: Hyundai Matrix
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh well if she will go and buy these cars that aren't french :D
<bigcalm> Heh
<dvrr> good morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> bigcalm: have you had to change a bulb in the back of the 407 is yours light box a pain in the neck to remove?
<shauno> bank holiday shift .. taking the chance to get stuck into st:voyager :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've yet to have to change any of the rear lights. Odd now that you mention it
<MooDoo> shauno: oooo
<foobarry> irish get a bank hol to go drinking?
<davmor2> bigcalm: they really are a pain to remove good luck when you do ;)
<shauno> some shows are best watched at work, because I still have 4:3 monitors
<shauno> foobarry: it's the national holiday.  most countries take such as days off.  the UK is just odd for not having one
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> time to do some rowing
<mapps> row row row the boat
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> i could have done with today off. weekend was too busy
<shauno> oh I'm not off.  just much lazier because no-one else is here
<bigcalm> shauno: don't work from home then
<shauno> nope :(  but still not sure I'd have the discipline for that
<bigcalm> shauno: if you ever do, I suggest watching a short video by Michel and Webb
<bigcalm> Erm, Mitchell & Webb
<davmor2> shauno: it's fine if you have a dedicated office.  That is then then work room effectively, outside of that room you are at home inside you are at the office ;)
<popey> ooh https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1206403106/chaos-reborn-from-the-creator-of-the-original-x-co
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm, MartijnVdS: do you guys remember a game called chaos engine?  that was a fun game :)
<popey> nope
<davmor2> wow according to wikipedia it was published for linux too
<davmor2> popey: it's another microprose game I had it on the amiga
<popey> i was too poor to have an amiga â»
<davmor2> popey: I only had an amiga second hand from a friend when they moved onto the pc :)
<shauno> more fool them, amiga>pc!  (for certain timeframes)
<davmor2> oh it's in steam
<bigcalm> davmor2: no
<bigcalm> I had a BBC Micro -> Acorn Archimedes -> PC. Didn't get to play many fun games
<MartijnVdS> lots of AMAZING spreadsheets though
<Dave2> BBC Micro had plenty of fun games
<Dave2> And with the Archimedes you were part of the future, running the first ARM processor. That's clearly worth more than some games.
<popey> speaking of which...
<popey> https://archive.org/details/computermagazines
 * bigcalm drags himself out of the time eating hole
<davmor2> bigcalm: and yet you are still on the internet :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: wouldn't have a job without it :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<mapps> hmm hope they dont take too long with my passport/eject it
<MartijnVdS> mapps: what are you doing with it?
<mapps> enewing it
<mapps> but
<mapps> well
<MartijnVdS> mapps: your "r" seems broken
<MartijnVdS> ish
<mapps> replacing i lost it at manchester airport after holland;(
<mapps> but thing is...it says to send 2 photos and they can be a minimum of x by y ..so i cut mine and theyre a bit bigger than the guideline dimensions
<mapps> im hoping they cut them to size ..it just specified a min..i kept within that
<MartijnVdS> mapps: here, we have to go to special certified passport photogs
<MartijnVdS> mapps: who give you a set that will work (or your money back/a free replacement)
<mapps> i got them done at the photo machine but it prints 5 in a block so u cut them out..and i did but yea i just cut the white and made sure its not below the min - so i figure should be ok?
<mapps> sounded like aslong as they aent too small its fine..to big o too much white and they can cut down?
<mapps> well i hope so anyway
<jussi> mapps: usually they have a overlay for size/head size etc
<mapps> yea , thats what iu thought so its just dont make them smaller than this size
<mapps> bit bigger is oke
<jussi> I thought the other way....
<mapps> but it says a mnimum surely itd say a maximum else
<mapps> gonna try and go to 4 euro places spain/germany/ and dunno paris and somewhere wanna see Bacelona v someone..cant remember who ..but tickets are 160 euros!!!
<mapps> 160 euros is outrageous
<mapps> its like 50 quid for a prem game..paid 40 euros to see Utrecht
<mapps> but i guess barcelona have a huge following
<jussi> barca is really expensive to go see
<jussi> I tried last time I was there
<jussi> Nou camp is an amazing place, shame it was so damn expensive that I didnt get to go
<mapps> you can go on a tour round it
<mapps> is that also expensive?
<mapps> bayern was expensive too..looked at Bayern Munich v Dortmund i think that was 80 euros? way more than i expected
<mapps> the flights are cheaper!
<mapps> just feels like you're being totally ripped off when its that expensive
<mapps> ive heard paris is really really expensive too
<jussi> mapps: Marseille is for you IMHO.
<jussi> decent team, decent prices
<mapps> the area isnt a ripoff too?
<mapps> where have you been to around europe?
<jussi> mapps: too many places to list, including germany, austria, belgium, france, italy, spain, Uk Finland, sweden, Estonia..... and more
<shauno> scandanavia looks really expensive :/
<jussi> shauno: it can be... depends how you go about it
<foobarry> 5,286,940k .. what chrome is using
<foobarry> what does background app mean? gmail is using 1.5gb
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: in which context
<mapps> yea ive heard denmark etc cost a fortune
<foobarry> about:memory
<foobarry> list of tabs
<foobarry> it had a pid which i killed and chrome popped up a balloon
<foobarry> but unsure how to close background apps
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/1184722?hl=en
<foobarry> thx.
<foobarry> 1gb a tad exesssive
<foobarry> 1.5gb
<MartijnVdS> why?
<MartijnVdS> It's a full-featured email client, contact manager and task list management app
<MartijnVdS> with a fair bit of your mail pre-cached
<foobarry> thunderbird is using a lot less
<shauno> not sure I'd call thunderbird full-featured :/
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it may not have cached as much -- disk access is orders of magnitude faster than web access
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: also, Tbird *eats* RAM usually, like firefox
<foobarry> adblock is chomping 200M too
<popey>  4862 alan      20   0 3190216 1.172g  45824 S   9.3  7.5 192:50.11 chromium-browse
<popey> tweetdeck
<MartijnVdS> is it all in use though
<MartijnVdS> or is it just the malloc()ed bit
<MartijnVdS> some of it never touched
<foobarry> mine was, that was the prob
<foobarry> used all my 8gb RAM and 4GB swap
<popey> i just closed the tab and re-opened it
<foobarry> most of it chrome
<foobarry> popey: is it a bground task?
<popey> how can you tell?
<popey> killed G+ too and re-opened, better
<popey> now I'm just left with the main browser process eating
<popey>  4715 alan      20   0 3630952 540008  45736 S   2.0  3.3 436:29.88 chromium-browse
<foobarry> task manager in settings says "background task"
<popey> no idea what task manager that is
<foobarry> sorry, chrome - settings
<foobarry> similar from (ium too
<popey> i have no task manager in settings in chromium
<foobarry> under tools ->
<foobarry> shift escape
<popey> aha, tools, not settings
<popey> none are background
<bigcalm> What's missing from this list? http://www.onenote.com/ :(
<nigelb> Well, it *is* a microsoft product...
<TheOpenSourcerer> google keep works OK for me.
<bigcalm> All devices is a lie
<bigcalm> !rat | TheOpenSourcerer
<lubotu3> TheOpenSourcerer: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bigcalm> ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Thanks bigcalm
 * bigcalm tickles czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Booked :-D
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Yay :)
<bigcalm> Whom else do we need to tickle about this?
<popey> yay, my Stallboard app is live in the store
<davmor2> popey: is this the amazon swindle one or another one?
<popey> wat wat
<bigcalm> Is there a website that lists ut apps?
<mapps> 2nd aug is ages away!
<bigcalm> mapps: you have to book it early, it's a popular event
<mapps> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Wack it on the Ubuntu community on G+ and/or Twitter. The more the merrier as far I'm concerned
<mapps> i thought just about booking time off for wok
<mapps> work
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm surprised that nobody has retweeted me :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah - when did you tweet it then?
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/445267305950629888
<bigcalm> Yesterday afternoon
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: do you know where alanbell is atm?  he is normally always online...
<TheOpenSourcerer> jussi: He was in the office this morning. I'm at home today waiting for Travis Perkins
<TheOpenSourcerer> 0844 3576000
<TheOpenSourcerer> Should probably still be there
<jussi> yeah, thanks
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ta for the tweet
<TheOpenSourcerer> np
<jussi> I think I should repeat this here also, as you might all get a laugh...
<jussi> saw soemthing funny on FB today.... " this was my 9th date with my girlfriend and we went to see batman. The current date history goes like this: Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Batman"
<mapps> lol
<ball> It's time to install NetBSD 6.1.3 on this laptop's new hard disk.
<ball> (the old disk failed)
<ball> oops, that's completely meant for another channel.
<Dave2> you're not allowed to talk about non-ubuntu in here
<Dave2> it ruins the atmosphere
<ball> It makes me happy that one of my colleagues has an Ubuntu Server book on his desk.
<mapps> haha
<mapps> :)
<davmor2> ball: that's only any good if he uses it :)
<ball> I should ask him whether he has an Ubuntu Server VM somewhere.
<BigRedS> is netbsd somewhere near workable as a desktop now?
<mapps> i thought openbsd and netbsd are just for servers
<ball> BigRedS: I've started fights in #netbsd before by asserting that it's essentially a server OS.
<ball> You can run desktops on it but people expect things from a desktop OS that NetBSD doesn't usually provide.
<ball> (e.g. WiFi, Adobe Flash etc.)
<BigRedS> ball: yeah, like it always was :)
<BigRedS> There was a bsd-for-the-desktop distro (pc-bsd?) and I wondered if any of the other bsds had taken it upon themselves to more completely package a desktop
<BigRedS> I've not really looked at bsd since it was only a little bit less desktop friendly than linux
<ball> BigRedS: It's interesting that PC-BSD exists but I don't think the NetBSD people feel any great pressure to replicate that.
<BigRedS> Ah, I meant take-the-best-bits rather than rework. But, yeah, it's never really been much of a focus for any bsd
<ball> I like Xubuntu for desktops and BSD for servers (or unix if it's bigger than a PC server can handle comfortably).
<BigRedS> XFCE and BSD? You're that fond of the '90s? :)
<ball> BigRedS: Xfce4 seems less broken than Unity.
<ball> ...and there's less of a learning curve for XP users.
<diddledan> http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-%20broadband-race-in-1990-1224784
<BigRedS> Oh, of course. But Unity's basically now an illustration of JWZ's CADT more than an attempt at a workable desktop I think
<diddledan> yey for non-technical folk making technical decisions
<BigRedS> which might just be me being interested in all the 'wrong' sorts of bug @)
<ball> I don't know what a JWZ or CADT is.
<BigRedS> jwz is an angry ex-mozilla developer who now runs a nightclub
<BigRedS> er, ex-netscape
<BigRedS> http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
<ball> I try Ubuntu about once every year to see whether they've fixed Unity.
<ball> ...then I go back to Xubuntu.
<foobarry> elementary ftw
<BigRedS> haha, I use Unity at work and it's fairly usable. I've crunchbang on my laptop because fluxbox hasn't broken indicators
<BigRedS> and, basically, the three things I require from my DE are working alerts when I get IMs, multiple workspaces and alt-tab
<ball> I tend to use Blackbox on NetBSD, though I've used Xfce4 there experimentally too.
<ball> I don't think I've ever got Gnome to work there and KDE is of no interest to me.
<BigRedS> I used to use vanilla *box but I could never be arsed to configure it
<BigRedS> haha, I did a try-all-the-DEs as gnome 2.x's EOL was announced
<BigRedS> and realised that most are/were horrendous
<ball> BigRedS: On mine it's just a single flat text file to edit to fix everyone's menu.
<ball> Customised menus might be more difficult but that hasn't come up.
<BigRedS> my biggest problem was my laziness meaning I didn't have a working 'shutdown' button
<BigRedS> so I'd just use the shell. And sometimes I'd use the wrong shell and enter 'poweroff' into an ssh session
<ball> Ouch. Yes, you'd want to be careful with that, especially on a shared host.
<daftykins> XD
<ball> Thinking about it that was on my list of things to check: how to grey out the Shutdown button
<hazrpg> ball: doh, I missed something, be careful with what?
<ball> (on Xfce)
<mapps> i use xfce or lxde
<mapps> umm
<shauno> I'll never figure out why amazon refuse to deliver so many products from uk to ireland :/
<mapps> ball why is bsd better for servers than linux? sorry if its obvious
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qxle0wmyrqksxx/IMG_20140317_161101.jpg
<daftykins> setting this up today :>
<daftykins> Lenovo X240 - i5-4300U based \o/
<davmor2> shauno: have you ever thought that they might just hate you?
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<shauno> it's crossed my mind more than once
<daftykins> shauno: lots of stuff won't come to the Channel Islands either, such as if it contains a battery
<daftykins> i can't buy UPSs from amazon =|
<davmor2> shauno: Possibly and issue with customs difference maybe?
<shauno> right now, it's soldering iron tips.  they're either shipping from china in ~3 weeks, or they're mainland sellers that can't ship to ireland
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<mapps> or anyone that has an answer
<ball> mapps: It's better for me on servers than Linux because I don't know how to use Linux.
<ball> I mean, I can poke my way around on Xubuntu as a desktop but I'm lost when I have to use a Linux server.
<ball> I should probably buy a book or something.
<daftykins> just do what i did, give yourself a server orientated task to learn, then get cracking
<daftykins> you'll catch on pretty quick if you're comfortable on the command line and good with file management
<daftykins> my #1 task was to play with setting up a web server from home
<shauno> on the other hand, bsd is near-useless for me on servers for exactly the same reason :)
<ball> daftykins: I would but I'm usually too busy.
<daftykins> ah
<ball> daftykins: Are you in the Channel Islands?
<daftykins> yes sir, Guernsey
<ball> I loved Guernsey
<daftykins> an island which has a retarded government about to introduce a tax similar to VAT
<daftykins> *commences high volume obscenity screaming toward the States of Guernsey*
<ball> I've been there a few times, the first when I was twelve and sailed from Dartmouth to St. Peter Port in a Force 9 gale.
<MooDoo> daftykins: you suck ;)
<daftykins> MooDoo: D:
<ball> daftykins: Will it be 25%?
<daftykins> ball: :D nice
<daftykins> nah 5%
<davmor2> daftykins: man another reason not to go :D
<ball> daftykins: That's not too bad then.
<daftykins> but the thing is, we have access to a direct case study of how good it is to implement - over on Jersey that've had it since ~2007 - they *regret* it
<daftykins> it's going to cost as much to implement and run as the tax brings in
<daftykins> i'm so livid about their level of idiocy i might have to take one of diddledan's sedatives
<daftykins> anyway hardly channel topic - so i shall hush :)
<ball> I should probably do the same about BSD then.
<daftykins> nah that's as close to on-topic as we ever get :D
<diddledan> BSD is pretty decent
<ball> ...except to say that the FreeBSD people would probably cite ZFS as an advantage of FreeBSD on servers. I haven't used FreeBSD in recent years so I can't vouch for that myself.
<ball> ...but I'm aware of ZFS as a potentially useful thing for file servers.
<mapps> ahh ok thanks ball i just wondered im sure ive heard people say how bsd is better as servers but beyond the you know bsd and not linux ..wonder what other reasons
<diddledan> ZFS is supposedly the saviour of all mankind
<mapps> i tried freebsd many years back on like a p166 so that tells you how long ago
<ball> mapps: Stability perhaps.
<shauno> personally, I think there's a default assumption that bsd must be for servers because you'd be crazy to use it for anything else
<ball> shauno may have a point.
<ball> brb, moar coffee/
<diddledan> if you only use the ports system then bsd on the server is no more friendly than gentoo
<diddledan> compile all the things
<diddledan> luckily they do make binpkgs of some stuff
<diddledan> but pfsense and freenas are pretty awesome variants
<mapps> thanks
<diddledan> it annoys me, however, that pfsense can't do failover unless you have multiple public ip addresses and the two systems' public interfaces somehow tied to one-another
<mapps> hm heard of ports dunno what it is
<mapps> not easier than compiling by source?
<ball> The ports collection is what FreeBSD and perhaps OpenBSD call their collection of packages.
<ball> NetBSD call theirs pkgsrc.
<ball> (though pkgsrc is designed to be portable to other systems)
<ball> I build packages from source because pkgsrc makes that easy, if not exactly quick.
<ball> There are binary packages too but I think they're more awkward to use.
<ball> hello ahayzen
<ahayzen> ball, o/
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> boring walk to the supermarket done
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> ball so if ports is fbsds package system isnt that easier than from source
<ball> Possibly on FreeBSD. I don't use that so I couldn't say.
<mapps> ah ok sorry
<mapps> so will there be anything good on tv tonight
<mapps> i say...unlikely
<daftykins> heh, TV good
<daftykins> silly mapps ;)
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> i'm really enjoying House of Cards so far
<daftykins> that netflix series with Kevin Spacey
<ball> Is that an American remake of the U.K. one?
<diddledan> ball: yes
<davmor2> so not as good then /me dives in the bunker
<ball> davmor2: That's usually the way.
<daftykins> well, it's spun out longer, as is tradition for US TV
<daftykins> *but* it's sufficiently not about US politics that even i'm enjoying it
<daftykins> so it can't be bad :D
<daftykins> not seen the original UK version
<ball> Fortunately the local PBS stations play quite a bit of U.K. telly.
<ball> Not that I watch much telly.
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> not seen either
<mapps> how far through are you daftykins
<mapps> heard it is mad good yea - thats on my list to watch sometime..i tend to go through loadsa eps at once
<daftykins> mapps: only about a third of season 1
<mapps> il have done arrow s1 soon..23 eps in 3-4days;p
<mapps> aha
<ali1234> is there a quick way to delete a lot of spam tweets after hackers steal your twitter password?
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> not as far as im aware not though the site anyway 3d party app ..maybe
<daftykins> ali1234: have you been scuppered? D:
<ali1234> no, i don't use twitter
<directhex> # Your branch is ahead of 'origin/master' by 7 commits.
<daftykins> directhex: the artist formerly known as ye olde steamose?
<directhex> daftykins, yes!
<daftykins> :O
<directhex> commit 639a6cad7f18d13d60c96911ddfc518b6c1dbe00
<directhex> Author: Jo Shields <directhex@apebox.org>
<directhex> Date:   Mon Mar 17 18:55:54 2014 +0000
<directhex>     Ye Olde SteamOSe is now XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. Rename references in gen.sh
<directhex> am preparing one mega git push
<directhex> will likely be on wednesday at this rate
<daftykins> hehehe
<directhex> release plan 1: prepare an installer which works *great* on dmraid (for dual-booting properly with windows raid users)
<directhex> release plan 2: prepare new website
<directhex> release plan 3: begin seeding via trusted seeder network
<directhex> release plan 4: record a series(!) of tutorial videos, making XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX the best documented way to install SteamOS
<directhex> release plan 5: git push --all
<directhex> release plan 6: announce
<directhex> also, amend #1 to include "works on radeon 4000 series"
<directhex> 1 is totally blocked right now on real test hardware
<directhex> so i'm gonna work on 2 until then
 * popey wonders what the ATI card he has is
<directhex> maybe even pieces of 4 aren't blocking
<popey> well, i cant even find the amazon or ebuyer order I thought I had got it from
<directhex> i ordered one off ebay
<popey> suppose i could turn this pc on and find out
<directhex> i've basically spent every penny of YOS donations, plus Â£5 of my own money, on my test bed
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> that's dedication!
<daftykins> off to eat and what not, ttfn \o
<directhex> should be getting a bunch of it tomorrow
<mapps> hm
<mapps> the twins from the following well the 1 guy that plays both
<mapps> from same place as me and went to the same school!
<mapps> didnt know him..prob 3-4yrs younger
<mapps> still kinda neat
<directhex> case/psu should arrive tomorrow from scan, according to txt from dpd
<mapps> what you building
<directhex> mapps, an old pc
<directhex> radeon should show up tomorrow too, rmsd
<directhex> mobo/cpu/ram are in myhermes limbo right now, so glob knows when they'll show
<directhex> i lied btw, it's mostly mono money not steamos money
<popey> haha, i just booted my old pc with the ati card
<popey> boots into ye olde steam os
<popey> not used this in a while!
<popey> hm, whats the username /password for the desktop account?
<popey> ah yes, desktop/desktop
<popey> so this thing has a Radeo HD 5450/6350 according to lspci
<directhex> 5000 series is supported by fglrx
<directhex> i already have a spare 5450, but i need to help debug working on older cards
<directhex> lots of grumpy people with high end 4000 series on steam forums
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-18
<mapps> morning
<Myrtti> moin
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> hey MooDoo / Myrtti
<MooDoo> :D
<directhex> my old crap radeon is here
<MooDoo> directhex: say hello to it for me ;)
<directhex> the motherboard/cpu/ram it needs are stuck in myhermes limb Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> limbo
<mapps> morning directhex
<mapps> 2 broke girls is so good
<mapps> :D
<directhex> it sucks, but not as much as Rules Of Engagement
<MartijnVdS> mapps: they can't even afford a cup?
<bashrc_> morning
<BigRedS> :(
<Myrtti> tsk.
<directhex> which is a terrible show about a misogynist, a harpy, a rapist, a wet noodle, some chick, and tim nice but dim
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: said is a disaproving tone ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: :)
<mapps> pff directhex seriously..2 broke girls is so funny
<mapps> max is hilarious
<mapps> and rules of engagement..uuuuh i loved that too lol
<mapps> MartijnVdS tsk tsk
<BigRedS> They both work for in-the-background telly, like how i met your mother and big bang theory
<BigRedS> not sure I'd turn on the tv specifically for any of them, but I am very bad at watching TV
<mapps>  http://ladydinahs.com
<BigRedS> I was disappointed to find it wasn't a 'cat cafe' in the sense that you eat the cats
<mapps> heh
<mapps> its not open yet anyway else id go today;/
 * DJones writes an appeal letter against a private car park "fine" for a tyre fitters van using a hotel car park to park up in it so that the driver could repair the broken down coach parked in the car park dropping off hotel residents
<mapps> been falling asleep at like 10pm..getting up at 5/6am yet my trains at 21;40 tonight! gonna have to get a nap before
<mapps> dont wanna fall asleep on the train :D
<BigRedS> DJones: I thought it was generally best practice to simply ignore those? Rather than lend credibility by appealing
<foobarry> doesn't matter, they just don't tend to pursue them
<foobarry> especially if you have a case
<mapps> they fined the tyre fitters van
<mapps> uh
<mapps> these people are parasites
<foobarry> they "invoiced" them.
<DJones> BigRedS: Probably is, but these people need to know they're plonkers
<mapps> like the old wheel clamping thought they were gonna make it illegal but like eveything else they say by 2020 or something
<foobarry> they don't have power to fine.
<mapps> yep
<mapps> thats true
<mapps> only councils and gov do
<foobarry> still lots of unhappy aldi customers
<mapps> but people dont know this and they feel they have to pay and get pressured
<foobarry> because parking eye are a bit zealous
<mapps> the gov said this would all be illegal and be dealt with..but as i say they said by 2015 or something..
<mapps> companies have made millions out of these fines and that;/
<popey> we once got clamped, took the clamp off the car by letting the tyre down, left it on their doorstep, phoned the clamping company who wanted to take us to court for damaging their clamp, we pointed out we didn't damage it... "oh"
<popey> "goodbye"
<mapps> popey is it really that simple? let the tyre down, take off..pump tyre back up?
<mapps> id never thought of that..I don't have a car though but still
<popey> thats what we did
<mapps> nice
<popey> had to get spanner in behind the clamp to undo the nuts
<popey> this was ~20 years ago though
<jussi> popey: very cool :D
<mapps> showed them:)
<jussi> Ive seen dome innovative unclamping when I was in dublin...
<mapps> i had ntl hassle me for money when i lived in Portsmouth..id finished uni wanted to cancel they said no..the sales guy said it was a 10month contract (ok id never heard of such a thing) sure enough when i phone up they say its 12
<popey> there was a guy at an airport who drove a van down a line of parked cars, and friend hung out the back angle grinding the padlocks off all the clamps
<mapps> but i never SIGNED anything..so i ignored the letters and nothing happened:)
<mapps> lol nice
<foobarry> u get bad credit though with ntl/virgin
<foobarry> virgin stole off me :(
<mapps> ah yea i wondered that
<mapps> but
<mapps> it was 7/8 years ago foobarry and it changed from ntl to virgin
<mapps> would it even matter now?
<foobarry> i phoned in advance to give notice of cancellation and they claimed i never did
<mapps> cant remember if they sent any letters to my home address..but my dad has virgin here
<foobarry> so they threatened lawyers and got angry
<mapps> he deff said 10months thats what irritated me..and i clearly wouldnt be there fo 12months..
<mapps> having never signed anything what can they do?
<foobarry> and to minimise the stress they were causing we agreed to split the difference. even though they were in the wrong. and i decided i would never use virgin again
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> hey bigcalm
<mapps> we cancelled vm went with bt ftc
<mapps> then went back to vm but also kept bt
<mapps> and tbh vm seems faster than bt most the time to me?
<DJones> Funniest clamping episode I saw was when I worked in Altrincham, a car parked in a railway carpark had its drivers side front wheel clamped, what the clamper didn't spot was that the car was jacked up on the passenger side and both wheels had been removed after punctures caused by driving over spilled nails in the carpark, in the end it was cancelled and the car park owner had to pay for two new tyres
<mapps> it does irritate me a lot during the day though 400-500ks;/ at night 5-6mbs?! like what the hell
<mapps> and BTs rubbish during the day too
<bashrc> my needs for bandwidth are not extensive
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Biodiesel Day! :-D
<mapps> morning james_w
<mapps> JamesTait even;p
<MooDoo> hello JamesTait
<JamesTait> mapps, MooDoo: o/
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> morning hoover
<hoover> Hi MooDoo
<hoover> I need a little help with procmail, is it ok to ask here?
<MooDoo> You can ask and if someone knows they will help, but also #ubuntu might be a good place as well.  If people don't answer don't be offended, it's either they are busy or just don't know :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<hoover> That's ok thanks MooDoo
<hoover> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning hoover
<hoover> I need a recipe to add a custom header to an email and then send the mail to a few recipients
<mapps> a bash script?
<hoover> mapps: procmail
<hoover> I've tried formail -A, but I'm a bit anxious about >>ing to a live mailbox
<MartijnVdS> hoover: that's why you use maildir
<MartijnVdS> every message its own file!
<hoover> Basically I need to add a custom header if it doesn't already exist and then forward the message to a list of addresses
<mapps> gonna be so tired later..getting up early sucks
<MooDoo> mapps: what time and unless it's earlier than 5:30 it's not early ;)
<mapps> well MooDoo ive been going sleep 10/1030 getting up ~530-6ish
<mapps> but
<mapps> i work nights and im back in work thursday!!!!
<mapps> so gotta switch back to nights
<MooDoo> ah
<mapps> else il be bloody knackered come 3am at work when ive been sleeping at 10am
<mapps> also my trains at 21;50 tonight..lol and ive been sleeping at 10:P
<mapps> dont wanna fall asleep on the train really
<davmor2> Morning all
<mapps> morning Dave2
<mapps> davmor2
<mapps> gah
<Dave2> :(
<mapps> morning Dave2 too :P
<mapps> didnt see you speak though..wake you up did i heh
<MooDoo> moring davmor2
<DJones> Anybody able to check something for me, if you press the shutdown button, you get the reboot/shutdown buttons coming up, is the shutdown button highlighted so you can read the text, or do you have to hover the mouse over it
<mapps> i can on lubuntu if thats any good
<DJones> No, I was just trying to check something on a default Ubuntu install
<DJones> But thanks for the offer
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka how's life
<bigcalm> DJones: in 13.10 - shutdown is highlighted and the text is visible. Restart is not highlighted and the text is not visible. Hovering over one or the other then shows the related text
<DJones> bigcalm: Thanks, I think its changed for 14.04, wasn't sure whether the text was still visible
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah ok thanks :) nothing special, you?
<DJones> It was prompted by somebody suggesting that the text for both buttons wasn't visible until you hovered the mouse over them, in which case, how would a touchscreen user know what each button did before pressing it (assuming the button icon wasn't obvious enough)
<popey> DJones: yes, i can read the text
<DJones> popey: Thanks, to me it seems obvious anyway from the buttons, but somebody in +1 thought it might be a problem on a touchscreen machine unless they also used the mouse
<bigcalm> DJones: if neither button is highlighted, then there is no text. But, on my 13.10 desktop, the shutdown is highlighted by default
 * bigcalm goes to find his laptop
<DJones> bigcalm: Neither button hilighted with no text was the issue that was being queried, if you can't mouseover to hilight, how do you know what the button does
<bigcalm> DJones: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/2014-03-18%2011.29.06.jpg
<bigcalm> DJones: that's 14.04. With nothing highlighted (having pressed the laptop's power button)
<popey> DJones: good point
<bigcalm> I couldn't do a screenshot of the shutdown options :(
<bigcalm> Yes, it's relying upon the icons being interpreted as the designer expects
<DJones> popey: May be worth just having a look at the scrollback in +1 for the last 15 minutes, that was what prompted the question, their suggestion was to have the text showing under the buttons all the time
<DJones> bigcalm: Thanks, btw, that screen is pretty good mirror
<bigcalm> ;)
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> why do betfair always update the app
<mapps> they update it and its worse
<bigcalm> DJones: I think Zz would be more informative than a clock for sleep
<DJones> Maybe a pillow
<popey> bigcalm: scrot -d 5
<bigcalm> popey: ?
<popey> 11:32:49 < bigcalm> I couldn't do a screenshot of the shutdown options :(
<bigcalm> Ah, okay, ta
<popey> scrot -d 5, then open the dialog and wait 5 seconds
<popey> scrot ftw
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> Indeed, I'll try to remember it
<bigcalm> mapps: maybe you can place bets on the usability of their app
<davmor2> bigcalm: what you done to your car now?
<bigcalm> davmor2: this, it would seem: http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/407-41/multi-failures-stop-brake-malfunction-etc-15303/
<bigcalm> davmor2: after parking and turning the engine off, the power steering kept on running (wining noise). That'll be why people got flat batteries. I disconnected the battery and reconnected - all errors gone and car works again.
<bigcalm> davmor2: I should also note that the turbo didn't work at all while the car had this problem last night. The power cycle fixed that as well. Most strange
<davmor2> bigcalm: maybe time to change the battery?
<bigcalm> davmor2: car is due a service this week coincidently, so will get them to check a lot of things
<bigcalm> davmor2: maybe
<davmor2> bigcalm: also ug doesn't follow do, ra does :P
<Myrtti> the mistake is in getting a peugeot
<Myrtti> French cars are a bad idea.
<bigcalm> davmor2: booked in for Friday
 * bigcalm hisses at Myrtti
<bigcalm> I think the mistake might be having a modern car that has lots of computing things interconnected
<bigcalm> I never had so many oddities with my 406
<diddledan> computers in cars are a great idea - keeps your mind off of the crash you're about to incur
<ali1234> does anyone know joomla?
<ali1234> what is the actual difference between a component and a module?
 * bigcalm runs away
<ali1234> is joomla really that bad?
<ali1234> it looks pretty bad, but i'm not sure if i just don't get it, or if it really is totally insane
<bigcalm> I hated working with it as a developer
<AlanBell> components are full content things that go in the middle, modules do less and go round the edge
<davmor2> ali1234: http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?t=344599
<ali1234> davmor2: i read that and it didn't help :(
<bigcalm> A wee reminder :)
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<ali1234> AlanBell: supposing i want to have things in the middle of the page, and things around the edge of the page, all coming from the same custom database table. then what? how do i make a component and a module share the same model?
<davmor2> ali1234: http://www.dart-creations.com/joomla/joomla-tutorials/the-difference-between-modules-and-components.html how about that instead
<ali1234> davmor2: nope, that also doesn't answer my question
<ali1234> it seems that i need to functionality of both a component (because i need a custom database model) and modules (because i want to present the DB data across multiple existing pages)
<ali1234> in wordpress this is all done in one plugin
<ali1234> i don't understand why it is split in joomla
<ali1234> or can i make modules in a component?
<AlanBell> ali1234: have a look at modules/mod_articles_category/helper.php
<AlanBell> it includes the model from the associated component
<AlanBell> com_content in this instance, but yours would be different
<ali1234> so going through a model is mandatory to make this work?
<AlanBell> erm, nothing is mandatory, you can hit the tables directly if you want to, but going through a model in the component is probably the right way to do it
<ali1234> but if i hit the db direct in the component, then i'll have to copy paste the db code into the module?
<AlanBell> or you hit the component with the module and the component hits the tables, but yeah, sounds about right
<ali1234> all the documentation is terrible
<ali1234> here is a direct quote from the developer docs: "I don't know. This is something that the gurus must answer. Where does  the display function come from? Again, I don't know. Hope that someone  else can help here. "
<ali1234> that's not a comment. that's just written in the middle of a page that is supposed to explain how components work
<AlanBell> heh yes
<hoover> fixed my procmail issue, thanks all!
<ali1234> also why is everything JControllLegacy?
<ali1234> why do the docs tell you to use Legacy stuff? where are the docs for the not-Legacy stuff?
<AlanBell> there was a big refactoring, to make it a lot more modern and sensible and less like old mambo
<ali1234> i get the feeling joomla is designed to maximize consultancy revenue
<foobarry> isn't there an xkcd about that?
<dwatkins> I tried using joomla once, it still gives me the shivers.
<MooDoo> I use wordpress for everything mostly, it's very very easy to setup
<Laney> oh yay, a council tax bill
<MooDoo> oh we had ours last week :S
<ali1234> yeah, our current site is wordpress. the problem is that the visual design is really poor. so we got someone in to improve it and he's like "oh yeah, just switch to joomla"
<ali1234> so we paid $30 or w/e for a template
<ali1234> this is delivered as a zip file with a full joomla installation and the template that you just unzip
<ali1234> it seems to be delivered this way because setting up joomla from scratch is impossible
<Laney> 2.48 per month more
<Laney> I can deal with that
<ali1234> everything has to be installed though the web interface, which des not work
<MooDoo> Laney: still sucks
<Laney> swingeing cuts to their budget sucks more
<BigRedS> One of my favourite things is making the web server able to write the code it will go on to execute
<Laney> 2% is the maximum they can increase it by without having to have a referendum
<ali1234> yes, that is actually a requirement for joomla
<foobarry> anyone recommend a decent ISA?
<davmor2> I'll just leave this here http://sftimes.co/?id=216&src=share_fb_new_216
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh I've seen it, it's cracking
<dwatkins> .co, davmor2? interesting
<MooDoo> oh there are hundreds of tld now, we've just released .berlin lol
<dwatkins> I still have to tell people not to automatically add www. to the beginning of a URL.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: the amount of people still going to www.ubuntu.technology instead of just ubuntu.technology
<dwatkins> indeed, MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: /me quickly registers youtakemybreathawayby.berlin
<MooDoo> lol
<foobarry> ichbinein.berlin
<MooDoo> someone beat me to im2.sexy, but did you know about http://rms.sexy ?
<MooDoo> I'll let your eyes bleed on that one
<dwatkins> I'm going to choose to ignore that URL, thankyouverymuch ;)
<BigRedS> .co has been around for ages; I got mine when it came out
<BigRedS> and now I keep missing emails because people append a '.uk' when I say it to them or assume I missed an 'm' when I typed it...
<BigRedS> 'original' TLDs are overrated
<dwatkins> they're also confusing
<MooDoo> there are quite a few new gtlds - https://gtld.heartinternet.co.uk/
<MartijnVdS> moodoo.guru
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't really like this free-for-all idea
<MartijnVdS> bigreds.museum
<shauno> I actually came across one in the wild today, http://ddsos.technology/ seems I can't access it from work  lol
<dwatkins> Can I register my own, e.g. .watkins ?
<BigRedS> I like the idea of having more geographical ones, but it seems they should also be part of the country ones - somewhere.lon.uk or somesuch
<BigRedS> which does sound awfully 1970s...
<MooDoo> dwatkins: no there isn't a .watkins at the moment.
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah. you've just reminded me of the last time I had this rant in here :)
<dwatkins> That might be confusing for a company with offices in London and Edinburgh, though, BigRedS - I'd say country-specific would be best (for the company's head office), if it were ISO 3166-compliant...
<BigRedS> but country-specific breaks when a company has offices in paris and london
<dwatkins> This would confuse americans, of course, as they'd all have to use .us
<shauno> and we'd start using .gb ?
<BigRedS> I don't advocate removing .co.uk, just adding a .lon.uk alongside it
<dwatkins> exactly what I was just thinking, shauno :)
<dwatkins> ...then there's .eu
<shauno> there's a .int too.  that always causes a double-take
<dwatkins> http://char.int/ isn't registered ;)
<MartijnVdS> unsigned.int
<ali1234> the website for java haters :)
<dwatkins> max.int
<shauno> max.int would be funny.  it should give you 32bit answers on ipv4 and 64bit answers on ipv6.
<DJones> You'd think somebody like Linux Mint or mint finance would go for http://m.int
<dwatkins> haha, great StackOverflow answer for max int: It's 2,147,483,647. Easiest way to memorize it is via a tattoo.
<shauno> it's not a general-use domain.  nato, the UN etc use it
 * dwatkins remembers 32767 being the biggest number once upon a time
<ali1234> cute domains with .'s in them are so 2008
<BigRedS> cr.yp.to
<ali1234> it's all about nonsense words now
<dwatkins> ali1234: like newsgroups such as https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die ;)
<ali1234> dwatkins: i rather doubt anyone has posted there since the 90s...
<dwatkins> 2013
<ali1234> i mean real people. not spam
<ali1234> why do people still spam usenet?
<ali1234> it's like the spammer got jailed and the bots are still running wild
<dwatkins> ah yes, I hadn't checked the threads themsevles
<ali1234> remarkably they actually look like real posts, if completely crazy
<dwatkins> something's marking some of them as SPAM
<ali1234> i mean there must be about 100 people still actively using usenet for text discussions. it was probably never more than 10,000 at any point
<dwatkins> I remember discussing UK sci-fi shows on usenet in 2001.
<dwatkins> Nowadays, I imagine a majority of the data is binary on there.
<ali1234> it always was. but yes, even more so now.
<popey> there's a guy who keeps going on alt some os advocacy and complains about microsoft trolls
<ali1234> well, since binary posting was invented
<popey> always struck me as a massive waste of time
<dwatkins> popey: indeed, popey - that's like complaining about there being geeks at a hacker convention
<ali1234> reddit is the new usenet
<ali1234> it's pretty much identical in every way
<dwatkins> yeah, apart from the voting
<dwatkins> I guess you can see a thread with a lot of comments on it in mose news clients, though.
<ali1234> the voting doesn't even do much
<ali1234> mainly the way threading works, the way you can't post images, and the way everyone is pseudonymous are what make it like usenet
<ali1234> you don't get an avatar image or inline sig-image for example
<ali1234> you can't post inline smileys
<ali1234> all the things that make forums exceptionally irritating
<foobarry> i don't remember journalists using usenet for most of their source material though
<ali1234> true dat
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26614051
<ali1234> pretty soon algorithms will generate all news, complete with quotes pulled from twitter and facebook
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Game_(TV_story)
<ali1234> that was simon pegg right?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<foobarry> ali1234: like google news?
<foobarry> or daily mail online
<ali1234> he should have played the master
<foobarry> peter capaldi would make a good master
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's still possible. He *is* a timelord :)
<foobarry> i recall the popey cat image was made into a "news" story
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Alan Rickman would make a good master.
<foobarry> like the online news websites are just a tiwtter digest of "celebs"
<foobarry> brian blessed = dr who, capaldi = master
<ali1234> haha
<foobarry> especailly since capaldi is playing cardinal richlieu
<ali1234> mark heap as doctor who, kevin eldon as the master
<ali1234> written by armando iannucci and directed by chris morris
<foobarry> is kevin eldon the elven king from LOTR?
<ali1234> no
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> elrond
<foobarry> benedict cumberpatch was destined but he did a better job of sherlock instead
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Elrond was Agent Smith
<foobarry> yeah,
<popey> Kevin Eldon was hobby man
<popey> Simon Quinlank
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krsj2bcnRlM mark heap and kevin eldon (nsfw, swearing)
<popey> Drink your weak lemon drink now!
<foobarry> i don't want enough telly to have a clue what is happening right now
<popey> it was a sketch on a programme about 20 years ago
<popey> there were different hobbies each week with "weak lemon drink" featuring each time
<bigcalm> Well that was a weird clip
<foobarry> did anyone watch blue jam?
<foobarry> or listen (was it a radio show?)
<ali1234> no, because blue jam was a radio show :P
<foobarry> there's a song i like that appears to be a random selection of quotes from it
<foobarry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFIZiNJevg
<jussi> right bakers, I have no eggs, minimal milk but I want to bake something sweet and yummy. thoughts?
<DJones> jussi: Flapjacks ?
<MooDoo> http://www.yummly.com/recipes/baking-without-eggs
<jussi> DJones: what exactly are flapjacks...
<cocoa117_> how to find which directory have largest file count?
<jussi> cocoa117_: open each on and manually count them :P
<DJones> jussi: You know the stuff you find at the bottom of a budgies cage? Just add honey to that and you end up with something like http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/flapjack.htm
<MooDoo> cocoa117_: du -a /var | sort -n -r | head -n 10
<MooDoo> top largest folders of /var for example
<DJones> jussi: Basically, oats, butter & honey, with added fruit/chocolate etc
<MooDoo> cocoa117_: or go to the folder and du -hsx * | sort -rh | head -10
<jussi> DJones: British Flapjack is different to flapjack in the US which is a thick pancake. <- why I was confused
<cocoa117_> MooDoo, thanks, you are star!!!
<MooDoo> no worries
<DJones> jussi: Some decent recipes here http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/flapjacks  Not something I like, but my wife loves them
<jussi> DJones: hrr, butter running low and hunny even lower. scraping the bottom of the barrel...
<jussi> I do have golden syrup though
<jussi> maybe Ill have to (yet again) resort to anzac bikkies..
<DJones> jussi: cookies? no milk or eggs needed for them
<jussi> DJones: if I can find a way around the butter issue... oil or something... thenthey look good
<DJones> Ah forget that, does need eggs
<jussi> nah, anzacs dont need egs
<jussi> eggs*
<DJones> Don't know why, but that sounds like hardtack biscuits
<popey> mmmm flapjack
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<popey> aquarius: Aaaaaaaaaalllroit!
<popey> </brum>
 * aquarius is having computer problems :(
<popey> uhoh
<aquarius> machine was throwing HDD errors, so the people sent me a new SSD.
<aquarius> have put it in; booted machine from USB
<popey> what kind of hdd errors?
<popey> exactly
 * popey bets money it's not the SSD but the SATA cable at fault.
<aquarius> So far: hung during USB "ubuntu . . . . ." boot screen needing powercycle; booted to USB desktop and hung there; hung again
<aquarius> screen flickering to black and back again while in USB desktop
<aquarius> I don't think it's the sata cable because the machine's locking up while I'm booted from USB, and flickering the screen on and off; I haven't done anything with the SSD yet
<popey> heh, okay â»
<popey> but keep that in reserve for "I told you so" later..
<popey> what video card does it have?
<popey> onboard intel or a proper one?
<aquarius> (so I probably shouldn't have complained about that to them since now I think it's not the problem... but whatever the problem was was exhibiting itself as SSD errors (and black flickering) because syslog was full of ssd errors
<aquarius> onboard intel.
<jussi> aquarius: did you have to send the old one back?
<aquarius> machine just hung again at ubuntu logo during usb boot :(
<aquarius> jussi, yes :(
<popey> what version of Ubuntu?
<jussi> doh
<aquarius> popey, 13.10
<popey> what CPU?
<aquarius> jussi, yeah, yeah, I know
<aquarius> popey, haswell i5
<popey> memtest?
<aquarius> and again, hung in boot :(
<aquarius> maybe it's memory, yeah
<aquarius> does the usb startup disk have memtest/
<aquarius> does the usb startup disk have memtest?
<popey> run memtest as long as you can, yeah, i think it does
<aquarius> the problem exhibits itself basically every time
<popey> at the same point or random points?
<aquarius> random points
<popey> right, memtest first then
<popey> eliminate that
<aquarius> sometimes it fails in usb boot
<aquarius> sometimes it gets to the usb desktop and locks up
<aquarius> before I sent the SSD back it booted OK to real Ubuntu but kept throwing SSD errors in syslog
<aquarius> (hence me thinking that the problem was the SSD)
<aquarius> now running memtest
<popey> tsk. should have come here and asked and I'd have told you to change the cable ã
 * popey prepares invoice
<aquarius> I do not believe that the cable can be the problem
<popey> i thought that
<aquarius> well, maybe that's the problem and there's another problem
<popey> i was wrong
<davmor2> aquarius: it can
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: You could try underclocking (or overvolting but that's worse, warranty-wise) the RAM or CPU? That can stabilize it somehow (I have an i7, slightly overclocked, but that only works because I also slightly overvolt).
<popey> but that could be one of multiple problems
<popey> *this* is *exactly* why I never build computers any more.
<popey> this stupid shit happens every single time
<aquarius> what, having a bad SSD cable might make it hang when booting from USB without touching the SSD?
<aquarius> popey, this is why I didn't build it!
<popey> yes, it has to initialise the drive
<aquarius> popey, and apparently having some pros build it didn't bloody help
<popey> even if you dont touch it, it gets powered up
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Bad cables anywhere can mess up the entire system stability
<popey> hah, indeed
<aquarius> am properly sad.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: have you asked the pros :)
<popey> I can imagine â¹
<popey> MartijnVdS: he just did
<MartijnVdS> popey: the pros who built the machine in the first place, I mean
<popey> :D I know silly â»
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, I explained to them that the SSD was throwing errors and, no questions asked, they sent me out a new SSD on 24-hour turnaround.
<popey> do you recall the errors?
<aquarius> it is not clear to me what else I can ask them -- "it fails in lots of weird ways" is not useful
<popey> i.e. did you copy/paste them somewhere?
<aquarius> popey, I didn't.
<aquarius> I searched for them at the time, and found nothing hugely indicative.
<popey> your browser history?
<popey> aquarius: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7114528/ that kind of thing?
<aquarius> popey, am looking in browser history ow
<aquarius> now
<popey> k
<aquarius> chrome is only showing me it for today
<davmor2> aquarius: do you have a esata lead and socket on your laptop at all?
<aquarius> so installing an extension which apparently does better
<aquarius> yak: skaved
<ali1234> well there is an easy way to test
<popey> scroll down?
<aquarius> popey, there's "Older>"
<ali1234> remove ssd, try to boot usb stick
<aquarius> but it won't do back older than that
<popey> ssd is in post
<aquarius> ali1234, yeah, I'll try that once memtest has run for a bit
<ali1234> i mean boot it with no fixed disk at all
<ali1234> btw did you get your network working the other day?
<aquarius> would having a bad sata cable which *isn't connected to a disk* be a problem?
<popey> how much ram does it have?
<ali1234> highly unlikely
<popey> not really no
<aquarius> ali1234, not really, no. The maverick laptop I was working on got rebooted and did not come back up -- it hangs with a black screen
<aquarius> ali1234, and then using it as a wifi proxy for the main computer stopped being a big issue once the main computer stopped working itself
<aquarius> ali1234, that's why I vanished: rebooted, and the machine didn't come back up
<aquarius> this has been the worst week ever for computers.
<foobarry> apart from that time somebody set off a EMP cannon from space
<aquarius> Oh. I haven't got any history in chrome for yesterday. Presumably because it didn't get shut down right. Fantastic,
<aquarius> thanks, chrome. throme.
<foobarry> aquarius: killall chrome
<popey> that seems unwise
<aquarius> foobarry, I don't see how that will recover a bunch of history which is already lost.
<foobarry> i had that problem
<aquarius> Moreover, having killed chrome is what makes it lose the history, I think.
<foobarry> it had started up without using my normal profile
<foobarry> so close chrome and killall the background stuffs
<foobarry> and ps -ef | grep chrome to make sure
<foobarry> then start it
<aquarius> foobarry, nah, it's using my correct profile. I check that a lot, because I have multiple profiles.
<aquarius> nothing from memtest thus far, although obviously it's only been running 15 minutes.
<aquarius> however, a thing which fails every boot in some way would, one would think, show up in memtest relatively quickly?
<mapps> how long does a memtest take?
<aquarius> mapps, ideally you'd leave it running for 24-48 hours
<daftykins> depends on system spec and amount of RAM
<daftykins> 30 mins + really for a single pass
<aquarius> however, I don't have that long.
<aquarius> I'll leave it to do one full pass, then after that I'll try ali1234's suggestion of disconnecting the sata cable from the ssd and booting again
<aquarius> I shall be properly, lividly cross if there wasn't actually a problem with the SSD and I have to set everything up again for no reason
<aquarius> but at least that'll solve the problem, if it does
<davmor2> aquarius: can you remove the ssd from your laptop?  if so try putting that into the pc :)  ie take a known functioning ssd put it in a known non-functioning device, that should rule out the ssd as the issue
<jussi> aquarius: and you are sure of the integrity of the USB?
<aquarius> davmor2, the laptop doesn't have a standard ssd.
<aquarius> jussi, it checked itself and came out OK. Moreover, I was having these problems when booted from the previous SSD with no USB included.
<jussi> ahh fair enough
<davmor2> aquarius: and does it have an esata port? and do you have a lead?  Ie can the laptop be used to see the ssd from the pc
<aquarius> davmor2, I don't think it has an esata port, whatever one of those is
<aquarius> and I doubt very much whether I have a lead for that anyway
<davmor2> aquarius: :(
<mapps> wow really aquarius 24-48hrs damn
<aquarius> mapps, memory errors are *normally* rare and intermittent. So they might not show up in a half-hour run.
<aquarius> that is one reason why I don't think I have a memory error. :)
<mapps> yea that makes sense actually
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> see lenny henry says tv is too white and thats why he cant get a job LOL--he was on TV for years..could it be he justAINT FUNNY
<mapps> he quoted miranda and its like lol..that show's horrid
<foobarry> how many comedians from teh 80s are still on telly? kenny everett? jasper carrot?
<foobarry> rod hull?
<popey> Shock - different people have different tastes
<dwatkins> Rowan Atkinson
<popey> Miranda sells very well around the world
<ali1234> rod hull is dead dude
<foobarry> exactly
<foobarry> lenny should be grateful
<foobarry> also, he's a brummy
<ali1234> hmm
<foobarry> friend saw him in brum the other day
<davmor2> aquarius: you live pretty close to moreati (Alex Wilmer) now so you could possibly get in touch with him and take the ssd to his and see if it works in one of his machines.
<foobarry> need to be in london where stuff happens
<aquarius> ssd ought to work: it is brand new.
<mapps> well
<ali1234> french and saunders were around at the same time as lenny henry started weren't they?
<mapps> lenny was on tv for years and years
<mapps> yea ali1234
<ali1234> also fry and laurie
<mapps> so i dunno why he's complaining now ..never had an issue earlier when his wife was all over tv
<foobarry> and ben elton and alexei sayle
<aquarius> both of whom are still on telly.
<foobarry> i think they get into writing
<ball_> Are French and Saunders still on telly?
<ali1234> yeah, you don't see them on tv much, but they're writing
<foobarry> delbert wilkins was funny when i was 10
<mapps> and Miranda sells well? I am shocked ..maybe its just me but i thought it was one of the worst shows ever
<jussi> my wife likes miranda... sadly...
<ali1234> ball_: yeah dawn french is in blandings
<mapps> lol
<ball_> ali1234: Never heard of that one.
<foobarry> miranda is OK, women like it, i put up with it as its better than some shows
<ali1234> ball_: it's pg wodehouse... you know, jeeves and wooster?
<jussi> the woman who plays miranda is also in "call the midwife"
<ali1234> oh yeah don't forget david jason
<davmor2> jussi: you mean Miranda ;)
<ali1234> and nicholas lyndhurst to an extent
<davmor2> jussi: the show is named after her :D
<ali1234> so in summary, there's loads
<foobarry> all london based
<ali1234> all tv is london based
<foobarry> sort of
<Myrtti> Doctor Who
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who.
<foobarry> bbc moved to salford didn't they?
<foobarry> but the parties and agents are london based
<mapps> i think they still operate in london too
<ali1234> they moved a bit of it to salford
<mapps> yea
<ali1234> but not all bbc shows are even made by the bbc
<foobarry> so what is lenny saying anyway?
<foobarry> didn't he cheat on his missis too?
<ali1234> rik mayall and adrian edmundson also on tv from time to time
<foobarry> lenny appears on travelodge ads and he's annoying
<popey> he's not been funny for many years.
<foobarry> what happened to the other two from mary whitehouse exp?
<foobarry> not baddiel/skinner
<foobarry> also baddiel isn't funny either
<foobarry> nor skinner anymore but is fair host of room101
<foobarry> punt and dennis
<ali1234> hugh dennis is on mock the week
<foobarry> and loads of stuff actually
<foobarry> outnumbered
<ali1234> and they both have a show on radio 4
<foobarry> i'm thinking of someone else
<ali1234> also skinner was not in mary whitehouse experience, it was rob newman
<foobarry> rob whitehouse?
<foobarry> yeah
<ali1234> he's still doing (very weird) standup
<foobarry> with long hair?
<ali1234> yes
<foobarry> 90s throwback
<foobarry> most people are not funny if they go to states
<foobarry> lee evans in a good example
<foobarry> russell beard. not sure if he is supposed to be funny though
<ali1234> apparently vic reeves first tv appearence was in 1986
<foobarry> mike from the young ones
<foobarry> nigel planer only every appears as someone on midsomer murders
<foobarry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_television_sketch_shows
<foobarry> hale and pace - good riddance
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> yeah they were bad
<davmor2> foobarry: wash you're mouth out with soap and water :P
<ali1234> still show up as pundits on "i love the 80s/90s"
<ali1234> harry enfield was 80s, no?
<ali1234> loadsamoney?
<DJones> harry enfield made hale & pace look funny
<ali1234> no, 1991 apparently
<bashrc> 80s/early 90s
<ali1234> harry enfield is quite hit and miss, but when he's funny he's really funny
<foobarry> only for that series
<popey> I fondly remember Friday night live and saturday night live
<foobarry> then he's still doing the same chracter far too long
<foobarry> kevin teenager - funny, but not for years, and not in a film
<ali1234> yeah but note that he doesn't do that any more
<foobarry> ofc
<foobarry> he was one of the first to killl a character (loadsamoney)
<foobarry> at height of popularity
<ali1234> yeah
<foobarry> stavros
<ali1234> also "you don't want to do it like that"
<ali1234> mark lamarr was doing stand-up in the 80s
<foobarry> whatever happened to angus deayton
<foobarry> never resurfaced after the HIGNFY
<popey> he's on Waterloo Road
<popey> and has done other panel comedy things on telly and R4
<ali1234> paul merton has been on tv since the 80s
<foobarry> hasn't been funny though
<foobarry> saw him coming out of burger king on oxford st. hes quite tall irl
<ali1234> angus deayton was never funny
<ali1234> ah how could we forget rowan atkinson?
<popey> i liked him on KWTV
<popey> we didnt â»
<popey> 15:25:12 < dwatkins> Rowan Atkinson
<popey> *KYTV
<ali1234> lol, he was the first one to get mentioned. makes sense
<foobarry> staying around in comedy requires adapting, relevancy, or a good agent
<popey> many of them moved to production
<ali1234> yeah, plus becoming a writer/producer is a lot less work
<popey> some of the old KYTV lot still appear in kids tv
<popey> Horrible Histories for example
<davmor2> popey: why do you get involved in arguments with Pete :D I'm as guilty you'd think we'd learn but apparently not :D
<foobarry> shame about baldrick turning out so boring
<ali1234> mark heap started out on kids tv. i watched him on ghost train in the 80s, big train in the 90s, and jam in 2000s
<popey> davmor2: what argument?
<popey> oh, the one about image updates
<popey> no argument there IMO
<davmor2> popey: pretty much any ubuntu related comment you make on google+ recently :)
<popey> just him using every oopportunity to poke the knife in, which he is at liberty to do on the internet
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxWBcUZvqLM
<davmor2> popey: don't feed the troll ;)
<popey> meh
<popey> blimey
<davmor2> ali1234: wooo those suits
<ali1234> the two marks were like a low rent trevor and simon :)
<bigcalm> That was fun
<aquarius> OK. Memtest passed fine (on first pass). Now booting from USB, with SSD disconnected (from both power and SATA cable)
<aquarius> looks to be stuck at Ubuntu boot logo again
<aquarius> (I do not know how to see what might be wrong in that situation)
<aquarius> it would be nice if hitting escape removed the boot logo and showed the actual text of bootup, but afaict it does not.
<dwatkins> boot without the splash screen, so you can see the console output, aquarius?
<aquarius> dwatkins, certainly, I just don't know how :)
 * aquarius bootsagain and looks for an optio
<dwatkins> press escape during boot, iirc
<dwatkins> otherwise, remove the "quiet" part of the kernel perameters in grub
<aquarius> dwatkins, as mentioned, escape doesn't remove the boot screen :(
<dwatkins> also, remove 'splash'
<dwatkins> you can edit the grub parameters as a one-off
<aquarius> there isn't any grub afaict
<aquarius> I can hit F8 and get the Ubuntu boot menu.
<dwatkins> I assume that's it
<aquarius> I am booting from USB install media here
<dwatkins> can you select the relevant option and edit it?
<aquarius> aha
<aquarius> found boot options
<aquarius> removed quiet and splash
<aquarius> ah!
<foobarry> only getting ~2Gb/s using iperf -P 10 -w 65536..any suggestions? should be 10Gb
<aquarius> BUG: scheduling while atomic: kworker/u8:1/67/0x00000100
<aquarius> that looks kernelish
 * aquarius googles
<dwatkins> bear in mind it might be a red herring, aquarius ;)
<aquarius> dwatkins, boot is hung there
<aquarius> that suggests some sort of problem!
<aquarius> le sigh
<aquarius> looks like a kernel bug
<aquarius> darnit
<aquarius> maybe I need to download and boot from a 14.04 daily image to see if it's fixed.
<davmor2> aquarius: what version of ubuntu, what arch, what chipset, what gfx
<aquarius> davmor2, 13.10, amd64, intel graphics.
<aquarius> I don't know models for the chipset and graphics because I can't boot the machine! If you tell me how to find them I can provide them.
<davmor2> aquarius: if it's a uefi system on the motherbopard  in bios compatibilty mode it should tell you in there
<aquarius> davmor2, in the bios boot thing/
<aquarius> ?
<aquarius> I am not booting in uefi mode
<aquarius> I'm using bios compatibility mode
<davmor2> aquarius: yeah that doesn't matter it will still be uefi so should still give you the info you want, in theory
<aquarius> ok, 25 minutes to download the trusty daily iso, so I'll try other stuff until then
<aquarius> davmor2, can't see anything in the bios stuff about the graphics. Chip is Intel i5-4670 @ 3.40GHz
<davmor2> aquarius: so mine on the info page lists cpu/memory/hdd type/cd-dvd etc
<davmor2> aquarius: you're right about the gfx though I thought it was covered though :(
<davmor2> aquarius: out of interest does all the memory show up in the info page?
<aquarius> Yes
<aquarius> I'll try the trusty daily cd when it downloads, in the hope that it's a kernel bug which is fixed in newer kernels.
<davmor2> aquarius: how are you conect the monitor to the pc?
<aquarius> hdmi
<davmor2> aquarius: can you try a different lead?
<aquarius> davmor2, I suppose so, but I can't see how that would hang the kernel :(
<davmor2> aquarius: sorry as in not hdmi
<aquarius> um.
<aquarius> probably.
<davmor2> aquarius: dvi or whatevery it is
<aquarius> will have to dig up a dvi lead
<aquarius> I can't see how that'd hang the kernel either, but we'll see
<davmor2> aquarius: the hdmi is a kernel driver so if that is at fault that would hang
<davmor2> aquarius: I would doubt it is at fault but if we rule out as much as possible now then it lowers down things to look at  latter
<aquarius> true
<aquarius> I'll try the trusty CD in about 15 minutes once it's downloaded
<aquarius> if that doesn't work I'll experiment
<aquarius> but it worked fine for three weeks using hdmi :(
<davmor2> aquarius: indeed I'm just running through as many things as possible that could be potential issues :)
<diddledan> perhaps it's just a case that lightdm didn't start and there's a virtual terminal on ctrl+alt+f1?
 * diddledan came in late however
<daftykins> wipe your feet!
<bigcalm> What was the multi tail program to tail multiple files?
<aquarius> OK, so booting from the trusty daily USB has got to the desktop fine
<aquarius> now to try that five more times to see if it was coincidence :)
<aquarius> ok, that works. Now to try it with the SSD plugged in.
<aquarius> and that works too.
<aquarius> Interesting.
<aquarius> aha!
<aquarius> flicky black screen
<aquarius> so something is still wrong
 * aquarius watches the machine like a hawk
<aquarius> and... syslog shows ata errors!
<aquarius> despite this being a brand new drive
<aquarius> so that might be, as popey suggested, a duff sata cable/
<aquarius> hrm
<aquarius> so a kernel bug *and* a duff sata cable
<aquarius> how lucky am I, eh?
<popey> pop to maplin and get a replacement sata cable?
<aquarius> glitchy graphics, too
<aquarius> occasionally
<daftykins> ouch
<aquarius> occasionally
<daftykins> aquarius: this a desktop?
<daftykins> or your laptop
<daftykins> as dumb as that question sounds given presence of a cable
<daftykins> :D
<aquarius> daftykins, desktop
<bigcalm> Do you have a spare machine you can whip the sata cable out of?
<aquarius> no.
<bigcalm> To Maplin!
<daftykins> aquarius: worth trying a different port or just wiggling the cable sometimes
<aquarius> daftykins, it is in a different port already; I tried that
<aquarius> OK. So: sata errors, which we think is the sata cable.
<daftykins> ah ok
<bigcalm> It's a possibility. If a change of cable doesn't fix it, then it might be the mobo
<daftykins> there's no other SATA device in the system? 0o
<aquarius> Graphic glitches -- screen goes black for a second, occasional coloured lines appearing... do we think that's the sata cable too?
<aquarius> daftykins, nope. I don't need more than one drive; that's what the network is for :)
<bigcalm> Unlikely. Is it onboard graphics or from a PCI/AGP card?
<aquarius> davmor2, how would I diagnose any sort of software problem which might be causing the graphic glitches?
<aquarius> bigcalm, onboard
<bigcalm> aquarius: had the mobo for long? It doesn't sound healthy
<aquarius> bigcalm, a month.
<popey> can you photo/film the graphic glitches pls?
<popey> they may well be intel driver bugs
<aquarius> popey, unlikely. Two bugs: one is "the screen goes black for a second and then returns" (which is not a useful photo) and the other is occasional colourd single-pixel horizontal lines, which appear momentarily and then vanish
<aquarius> so they're not really amenable to being filmed
<bigcalm> That makes me think of a duff connection
<aquarius> ya. I tried unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable about five times, but maybe I'll try it again now
<bigcalm> aquarius: sucking eggs time - is the cable fully secured in the monitor and screwed in?
<aquarius> and try davmor2's suggestion of going dvi instead to see if that helps
<bigcalm> aquarius: do you have another DVI or HDMI device you can connect to the desktop?
<bigcalm> aquarius: or even connect the monitor to another source?
<aquarius> i don't have any other monitors with even close to this much resolution
<popey> are the horizontal lines at the same point?
<bigcalm> Any monitor at all with the same connection is a start. We want to rule out an problem with the monitor
<popey> also, /var/log/Xorg.0.log is handy for blank screen stuff
<davmor2> aquarius: everything they said
<aquarius> popey, nothing in xorg log. I looked there
<popey> nothing?
<popey> or nothing interesting?
<aquarius> popey, nothing that changes with each flicker
<aquarius> I can paste the whole entire log if that's useful.
<aquarius> OK, HDMI cables re-seated
<popey> 17:06:15 < popey> are the horizontal lines at the same point?
<popey> or different lines??
<aquarius> I don't think they were problematic, but maybe they are
<aquarius> popey, um. I *think* they're at roughly the same point, but it's really hard to say
<popey> hdmi would usually be all or nothing, not individual lines
 * aquarius watches the computer suspiciously waiting to see if it goes black
<aquarius> (maybe the graphics stuff is indeed just me not plugging the cable in right)
<popey> UNLIKELY
<popey> -caps
<popey> hdmi as I say is all or nothing
<popey> not like vga where it can be half-in and glitchy
<popey> it's digital innit
<aquarius> it's not impossible, though. I am pretty able at screwing up stupid things :)
<aquarius> hm!
<aquarius> line from syslog after replugging monitor: EDID checksum is invalid, remainder is 17
<aquarius> that's weird
<aquarius> strangely also only one line
<aquarius> although I unplugged at computer end and replugged, and then unplugged at monitor end and replugged
<aquarius> so if there's a genine problem there should have been two lines
<aquarius> so perhaps that was just a bad connection while I was plugging it in
<aquarius> no black flickers
<aquarius> so far
<aquarius> so maybe it just wasn't plugged in right, sigh
<aquarius> doeesn't explain the sata errors, though,
<daftykins> HDMI can't be plugged in wrong - you get something or nothing
<daftykins> no third state :D
<aquarius> what can I do to make the machine look at the drive (and thus potentially get further errors), given that the drive is brand-new from the packaging and thus presumably unformatted?
<popey> disk utility
<popey> it has a disk test function
<popey> and benchmark and other handy tools
 * aquarius starts a SMART short self-test
<diddledan> gog.com have announced they're gonna release a slew of 100ish games for linux drm-free
<diddledan> in the "fall"/autumn
<aquarius> diddledan, they have indeed. Finally. But well done to them; I shou;d not be snide, and it's fabulous to see them recognising Ubuntu as a gaming destination
<diddledan> definitely
<diddledan> I've bought loads of games through gog.com just because they're drm-free and I support the cause
<aquarius> OK. SMART self-test succeeded; nothing in syslog about ata errors.
<diddledan> barely ever played any of them, but I like to know I have them available
<aquarius> would a SMAT self-test trigger those errors, or does that just test the disk firmware without actually testing the disk itself?
<aquarius> I suppose I could... format the disk.
<aquarius> which is interesting, because I don't know how :P
<diddledan> smart tests are a hard disc firmware-based test in that it's the firmware on the disc that does the testing. smart then provides a protocol to report the results of those tests to the host system
<diddledan> so when testing for errors using smart there's no ata traffic involved
<popey> aquarius: same utility has a format option
<aquarius> aha, so it does, thank you
<aquarius> formatting: no errors.
<aquarius> however that's just made the disk 180gb of free space :)
<daftykins> no biggy
<aquarius> now presumably I have to add some partitions to actually generate some ata traffic...
 * aquarius creates one 180GB ext4 partition
<aquarius> still no ata errors in syslog
<aquarius> hrm
<aquarius> how can you have got errors on startup but none while actually formatting the disk, stupid thing?
<popey> you have errors in startup?
<popey> what errors?
<aquarius> popey, well, they were around startup time
<popey> you suck at bug reporting
<popey> details man, details
 * diddledan reports on bug sucking
<popey> dmesg -T | grep ata
<diddledan> mmm, crunchy
<aquarius> popey, pastebin.com/wjAjxUt
<diddledan> o_O
<aquarius> no, that's not right
<popey> indeed it isnt
<aquarius> popey, pastebin.com/wjAjxxUt
<aquarius> am having to copy things around by eye from one machine to another :)
<directhex> does anyone know a good way to create those youtube annotation video indexes on linux? y'know, where you go to a youtube video, and it has a bunch of smaller video segments as links to other videos?
<popey> that looks like dodgy cable
<popey> you do those inside youtube I thought
<aquarius> directhex, as in "make a picture in picture", sortafing?
<directhex> aquarius, precisely
<diddledan> directhex: you might be able to do it with http://www.pitivi.org/
<aquarius> directhex, I've not tried, but if I needed to I'd probably end up at ffmpeg like I normally do...
<popey> https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/92710?hl=en
<directhex> i'm using pitivi for my basic video editing, since avidemux doesn't seem to know what an mp4 is (!)
<popey> no, you do it on the site,. not locally...
<popey> AIUI
<aquarius> popey, not the text postit notes
<popey> "Check the "Link" box underneath the "Start" and "End" settings. You can choose whether you want the annotation to link to another video, your channel, a playlist, a fundraising site or direct the users to subscribe to your channel."
<popey> yes.
<diddledan> popey: that's for the links, but people are underlaying the links with video content
<aquarius> popey, directhex is looking to have a screen with four little videos in it
<aquarius> that is: you make a video containing four little videos, then on the site you draw a box over each of the little videos and make the box a link to the actual video URL
<popey> i am sure I saw a how-to that said you do that on the site. I guess not
<directhex> yes! aquarius totally understands me <3
<popey> I do too!
<popey> I get the requirement.
<popey> I just understood it could be done on the site.
<aquarius> popey, cor. If it can that'd be useful -- I didn't think it could. Cool if so!
<aquarius> http://randomjct.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/easy-video-editing-tricks-in-linux.html shows ffmpeg command line
<popey> I saw a video tutorial ages ago but can't find it now
<aquarius> but presumably directhex gets fired if he uses ffmpeg ;)
<directhex> for this release of ye mumble mumblemumble, i'm doing multiple tutorial videos to cover different user requirements. but i need an index
<aquarius> gst ! thing ! other ! whatever ! woo ;-)
<popey> I'd probably use kdenlive.
<directhex> gst ! ffdecode ! ffencode ! ffpanda
<directhex> popey, oh, that might be worth a whizz
<diddledan> OT, but I got a couple of these delivered today: http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/adafruit-pi-case-enclosure-for-raspberry-pi-model-a-or-b they're pretty decent cases
<aquarius> ooh, openshot can do picture in picture
<popey> aquarius: so anyway, yeah, sata cable.
<popey> pffft
<popey> openshot blows goats
<aquarius> popey, right
<aquarius> I agree that openshot blows, and it's *still* the best. This is a sad indictment of the sorry state of video editing on our platform :(
<aquarius> although, lightworks.
<diddledan> lightworks ftw
<aquarius> anyway, kdenlive can do PiP too according to google
<popey> nope
<popey> kdenlive > openshot > pitivi
<popey> I had some rapid video editing to do recently, openshot and pitivi just crashed every time I breathed near it
<popey> kdenlive didn't crash *once* in 20 hours of editing
<aquarius> directhex, so, yeah, I suspect that everyone will actually name this "picture in picture" and thus looking for that in your chosen video editor sounds like the way
<daftykins> directhex: are you still thinking up a new name or are you keeping us in suspense? ;)
<directhex> daftykins, new name is still secret, but it is final!
<directhex> i.e. i've spent 2 hours recording/editing videos with the name in it
<directhex> new site is ~done
<directhex> missing 2 more tutorial videos (1 i can do tonight when child is asleep, the other is blocking on myHermes)
<popey> yay
<popey> except for the myhermes drunken delivery driver bit
<directhex> Parcel collected by myHermes
<directhex> 17/03/2014	09:59	Collected by the courier
<directhex> that is literally the latest update
<directhex> if it's not with me early tomorrow, then the release of YOS 5 will be delayed by at least a week
<directhex> i have a case, with a power supply fitted... and a graphics card box rattling around inside it
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> the number of courier companies in the UK astounds me at times
<daftykins> often, if there's say, a return required - i insist the companies check whether their courier operates here. they never do but they swear blind that someone will show up
<directhex> mdraid/lvm video recorded
<directhex> just dmraid to do, and that needs 1: a physical PC, and 2: actual support for dmraid, which i haven't finished yet
<ball_> What's a dmraid?
<bigcalm> Fooooooooooooooood
<ball_> Food is good, we like food.
 * ball_ just ate a sarnie
<ball_> ...for lunch.
<directhex> ball_, dmraid is the subsystem used to drive motherboard-based driver-based RAID subsystems - e.g. Intel raid, or Promise (AMD) RAID, or NVIDIA RAID
<ball_> Fakeraid then?
<daftykins> yip
<ball_> Is there ever an advantage to using that instead of mdraid?
<directhex> ball_, yes, dmraid is the actual app which drives fakeraid
<directhex> ball_, and the advantage is you can dual-boot with windows on dmraid
<ball_> Ah, I can see tat for some people that might be helpful.
<ball_> that*
<directhex> i really can't imagine how some of the high-end boutique steam machine vendors haven't accounted for it
<ball_> I'm not sure what that means.
<directhex> http://www.stuff.tv/valve-s-steam-machine-army-every-angle-covered/feature/origin-pc-chronos - steamos can't do what OriginPC are advertising it can do.
<ali1234> tl;dr?
<ali1234> can't support dual graphics cards?
<ali1234> can't dual boot? can't support 14TB?
<ball_> Is that the linux-based games PC?
<ali1234> it;s one of them
<ali1234> one of at least 12
<ball_> Oh. I didn't realise there were more than one.
 * ball_ <- not a big gamer
<ali1234> heh. do you also live under a rock? ;)
<BigRedS_>  Even I've managed a vague notion of what's going on with these steam boxes
<ali1234> did you also know steam is now available native on linux?
<ali1234> thing is, valve didn;t do that just cos they love linux
<ali1234> they want boxes in living rooms that have steam instead of itunes/windows store on them
<ali1234> this is largely the same reason meego fell apart. everyone wants their own appstore rather than being just another app in somebody else's
<ball> ali1234: Illinois.
<ali1234> (ironically also the reason meego was first created)
<diddledan> samsung are putting money into tizen for exactly the same reasons
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> after meego fell apart it split into mer and tizen
<diddledan> I read an interesting opinion piece on how google used motorola to slap samsung into place
<ali1234> mer is where all the (ex) nokia people went
<ali1234> tizen is where intel went, joining up with samsung
<ali1234> mer became jolla/sailfish
<ali1234> sailfish is to mer what ubuntu is to debian pretty much
<diddledan> the theory is samsung made their weird ui on top of android to make android work entirely differently, then they made the same ui on tizen with the plan to silently migrate their phone lineup to the non-googlified os and hope nobody noticed
<ali1234> it probably would have worked too
<ali1234> sailfish can run android apps
<ali1234> no reason tizen couldn't license the same tech
<ali1234> well, samsung
<diddledan> so google sees this happening, buy motorola and sue the pants off samsung until samsung agrees to this ongoing patent agreement that forces samsung to scale back their customisations to android and the very next day after announcing the partnership google announce that they've sold motorola
<bigcalm> Finished Journey of a Roach, it was fun :)
<diddledan> slam dunk to google
<ali1234> that sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory
<davmor2> diddledan: but kept the patents
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure they bought motorola cos they thought the patents would be useful against microsoft
<ali1234> but it turned out they were a bit weak
<diddledan> here it is: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/02/10/how-google-used-motorola-to-smack-down-samsung-twice/
<directhex> ali1234, steamos has no dmraid subsystem, and the originpc & falcon northwest systems both advertise dual boot AND >4TB disk (which requires a RAID controller of some kind) without advertising use of a HW RAID controller
<directhex> so clearly they're using software RAID with windows & haven't even tried it with steamos yet
<diddledan> I don't get why >4TB would require raid
<davmor2> diddledan: from the start google said they only wanted motorola for the patents looks like they weren't lying :)
<ali1234> neither do i
<ali1234> probably some windows oddity
<daftykins> well if it were the boot volume, maybe that'd make it GPT
<daftykins> *shrug*
<diddledan> gpt doesn't require or preclude raid
<daftykins> i know that :>
<diddledan> gpt is requited for > 3TB partitioons though
<daftykins> that's more what i was getting at
<daftykins> heh keep hearing the new windows 8 'email' sound effect from this laptop i'm setting up
<daftykins> seems so alien
<diddledan> but any modern system will be running uefi/efi so it'll be running gpt anyway
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9u3d5ry6gp569p6/VID_20140318_124942.mp4
<daftykins> check that out :O
<ali1234> what about it?
<daftykins> nice and nippy.
<ali1234> slower than my dad's ubuntu machine :)
<diddledan> windows doesn't shutdown
<ali1234> that boots in 7 seconds from cold
<daftykins> ubuntu? lawl.
<diddledan> it hybernates when you click the "shutdown" button
<diddledan> bad bad selign
<diddledan> spelign*
<daftykins> yeah all things i know, diddledan
 * ball is confused
<ali1234> it did when i installed it anyway. it's probably slow by now
<daftykins> ball: hmm?
<diddledan> anyone know how AlanBell is getting on with his clusterpi?
<diddledan> the latest information on the indiegogo points to http://libertos.org/ where not much has changed
<diddledan> although the initial build-out looks impressive
<diddledan> I think someone needs to invent a multi-server filesystem checking tool called clusterfsck
<diddledan> just because.. family friendly
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i remember talk of USB cable quality woes last
<daftykins> that was a while though
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I'd love to visit when it's up-and-running, though, just to stare at all the blinkin flashy
<diddledan> I'm a sucker for flashing leds
<daftykins> XD
 * daftykins feeds diddledan http://www.instructables.com/id/Led-Cube-8x8x8/ then runs away
<diddledan> oh wow
<diddledan> that's amazeballs
<foobarry> facebook has changed, it looks awful
<directhex> ok, yes, i think kdenlive will do the job
<directhex> diddledan, which drives are >4T?
<bigcalm> Looking at nfs over ssh - sensible idea?
<bigcalm> Specifically: https://gist.github.com/proudlygeek/5721498
<ball> bigcalm: Over a LAN?
<bigcalm> Over a lan is fine, this for when I'm remote from the server
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: you pinged me a while ago. Do you remember what it is that you wanted?
<dogmatic69_> sup
<dogmatic69_> I do... http://www.speedtest.net/result/3370508339.png
<diddledan> NOOT FAIR!
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: heh, nice :)
<dogmatic69_> VirginMedia++;
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: looking at a house in St. George's on Friday. Getting closer to you I think
<dogmatic69_> under Â£70 pm on tv, phone and internet
<diddledan> although the upload is pretty poor considering the download - vm didn't really improve upload speeds in their recent 152Mb/s announcement
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: nice, like 1 mile away...
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: you go to slug?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: I went once and found it not really my thing. I do go to the Wolves LUG though
<dogmatic69_> ah
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: which isn't too bad, if you can put up with davmor2 )
<dogmatic69_> hehe
<bigcalm> I have a horrible feeling that the house we're going to look at doesn't have VM or FTTC
<bigcalm> diddledan: compare my result to dogmatic69_'s: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3379924822.png
<davmor2> bigcalm: no good to you then you need fibre for work if nothing else
<bigcalm> davmor2: fibre checker says end of March, maybe
<bigcalm> davmor2: so I'll survive with my 3g until fibre is available
<bigcalm> davmor2: house buying takes months anyway
<mapps> )
<mapps> man
<mapps> this wifi is flakey
<mapps> and they bill it as 'fast' and 'reliable'
<bigcalm> $ sudo mount -t nfs -o port=3049 localhost:/home/iain /media/proliant/nfs/iain
<bigcalm> mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported
<diddledan> damned sophos conflict with timemachine! I'm gonna uninstall sophos methinks, I'm fed up with the constant hanging
<mapps> wows7
<mapps> my nets been stable this time
<mapps> for more than 5mins
<mapps> on the train..annoying they throttle though..noone on it!
<bigcalm> Ditched nfs over ssh and have gone with sshfs instead
<daftykins> why encrypt local at all :(
<bigcalm> But this isn't for local
<daftykins> no?
<bigcalm> Does /etc/hosts have to be <ip> <name>? Can I use <fqdn> <name>?
<bigcalm> daftykins: no :)
<bigcalm> daftykins: it's to mount my home directory when I'm away from home
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> just get speedier with your scp'ing? :D
<bigcalm> daftykins: not really going to happen when using an IDE :P
<daftykins> 0o
<bigcalm> If I were to run a DNS server on my laptop, I could add a CNAME to point at a FQDN. Can I do the same but without running a whole DNS server? I don't appear to have the right setting in /etc/hosts
<diddledan> bigcalm: hosts is ip-from-hostname mapping - it doesn't allow hostname-from-other-hostname maps
<bigcalm> Poo
<bigcalm> Is it only DNS that allows that?
<diddledan> you might be able to hack into network-manager's dnsmasq instance
<bigcalm> Otherwise I'll have to make do with hoping my VM ip address never changes
<popey> bigcalm: do you want to sync your entire home?
<popey> sorry, mount
<popey> I would use syncthing
<popey> well, I do use it
<bigcalm> popey: not really. A mount appears to be doing what I need. It's for accessing work stuff, not replacing the local home directory
<popey> right, so syncing files?
<popey> wont mount be slow?
<bigcalm> Fast enough for my needs
<daftykins> VM IP? why not statically address?
 * directhex tinkers
<bigcalm> popey: I'm testing it while I'm at home. The real test will be when I'm remote
 * diddledan tailors
<bigcalm> daftykins: because I don't have a static ip address
<popey> the nice thing about syncthing is it will keep things in sync whether you're home or away
<daftykins> oh your web-facing one
<popey> like dropbox, but all nice and private and not relying on their servers
<daftykins> hrmm that sounds neat for keeping a clients macs in sync
<daftykins> i was considering trying BTSync but i don't 100% trust the implementation of that
<bigcalm> Read that as butt-sync
<directhex> daftykins, you in bed yet?
<directhex> daftykins or popey, whomever is more awake gets secret info. THE OTHER WILL BE LEFT IN THE DARK
 * diddledan opens some popcorn
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> directhex: i am alive!
<directhex> daftykins wins!
<daftykins> \o/
<bigcalm> I think I'm still alive
<bigcalm> What's the name then? ;)
<bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
<directhex> bigcalm, a secret known only to me... and daftykins!
<daftykins> 8)
<daftykins> it's called the cheesewagon!
<daftykins> D:
<directhex> progress! mobo bundle has moved from courier's car to courier's local depot. no sign of it in my local depot, of course
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-19
<JollyValue> Dunno if anyone's gonna see this but for Commodore C64 fans .. #kickstarter projects (2)
<JollyValue> A) C64: A Visual Commpendium - Launch Video ... march 1st starts .. seems alright. I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhX4_nUFUD0
<JollyValue> B) C64 In a new biscuit tin for Â£75 plus courier from US running : MMBASIC (MaxiMite BASIC) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/818225433/maximite-bbx-the-modern-day-basic-language-compute?ref=live
<JollyValue> note that (B) finishes in when (A) starts, at the beginning of March ~14
<JollyValue> I guess a reference for an Raspi Pi happy coders for MMBasic is on their page under the FAQ - http://goo.gl/H5iqIp
<JollyValue> #beddington Offsk.ies
<JollyValue> leaves
<daftykins> wat.
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> was that a troll?
<diddledan> pretty damned random and in the middle of the night
<Myrtti> that was redtape
<Myrtti> probably
<mapps> too mcuh ketamin again
<mapps> :_
<mapps> :)
<mapps> hm]
<MooDoo> hello all
 * popey stabs directhex with the flu
<MartijnVdS>  cruel
<popey> well.. I woke up to see this notification...
<popey> 23:40:11 < directhex> daftykins or popey, whomever is more awake gets secret info. THE OTHER WILL BE LEFT IN THE DARK
<MooDoo> popey: I bet he's not even up himself yet!
<MooDoo> popey: that wasn't nice posting that pic of your breakfast on twitter :p
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc
<popey> hah
<popey> it was yummy
<MooDoo> :p
<jussi> popey: Darkness is good... :P
<jussi> so being left there isnt bad...
<jussi> or in other words "ignorance is bliss" :D
<directhex> i was up at 5:45. thanks, toddler!
<MooDoo> directhex: that late eh ;)
<popey> I was woken by a cat trying to login to my imac
<popey> *boop*
<popey> *boop*
<jussi> popey: hahahah
<popey> *b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-boop*
<jussi> popey: we don't believe you, everybody makes up cat on keyboard stories.... :P :P :P :P
<popey> this is the only reason I got up early and made a nice brekkie for wifey
<popey> because I was already up thanks to sky
<popey> mirv has the best keyboard + cat story
<popey> http://www.kernelcat.com/
<MooDoo> LOL
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning DJones
<DJones> Hey MooDoo
<jussi> MooDoo: do you actually do something at work or just sit on irc...? :P
<bashrc> the latter
 * jussi giggles and shoots nerf rockets at MooDoo
<MooDoo> jussi: oi shut it
<jussi> hehehe
<jussi> MooDoo: got splinters in your butt? :P
<MooDoo> jussi: ow ow ow ow ow
<MooDoo> I work with two monitors so can have irc on one and work on the other, i'm just that good :)
<jussi> MooDoo: pfft :P
<popey> The good news is, you're probably having a better day than this guy. http://i.imgur.com/J7Qw7Ka.gif
<Myrtti> Chromecast \o/
<MooDoo> oh dear
<jussi> popey: thats just nasty...
<jussi> popey: did you end up buying a hdmi splitter?
<popey> no, I'm waiting for you to tell me which one to buy â»
<jussi> popey: heh, not the one I bought in nycase... :(
<popey> Yes, I noted that â»
<jussi> oh and that word always brings this clip to  mind :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
<directhex> popey, thanks for the pointer to kdenlive, it's doing exactly what i needed it to
<directhex> With the courier to be delivered
<directhex> 19/03/2014	08:37	Received by the recipient's local courier
<directhex> ;o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Caramel Day! :-D
<directhex> you set a clip with a "composite" transition, and that transition lets you pick arbitrary scaling values
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<Myrtti> http://helloworldopen.com/
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm brobostigon Myrtti :)
<popey> directhex: yay
 * foobarry opens a chocolate orange in defiance
<MooDoo> foobarry: good man
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> anyone here done LPIC-1 ?
<Myrtti> popey: did you order new socks?
<popey> no
<Myrtti> I'm not too keen on Argyle myself
<foobarry> are we talking those nice socks? they are a bit pricey though
<popey> Myrtti: foldio just arrived
<Myrtti> 30USD? depends on what you're used to paying
<foobarry> M&S fresh feet
<BigRedS> MooDoo: I've started working towards it and seen everyone else here pushed through it if that's any help :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: yeah i'm applying for more canonical jobs that mention lpic so I think it's where i need to go
<Myrtti> foobarry: that's not comparable, these are flight compression socks
<directhex> 4th tutorial video recorded
<Myrtti> popey: did your Foldio tracking code ever work on parcelforce website?
<popey> never tried
<Myrtti> :-D http://www.nrk.no/piipshow/about-the-piip-show-1.11575642
<MartijnVdS> Norweirdgians ;)
<directhex> finns are worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLKiknDbFjA&feature=kp
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: loved you black selfie :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah I thought it was funny :D
<MooDoo> If any one is interested and I hope I'm not out of line in posting this but there is a IRC  Operator team meeting today at 18:00UTC if you're interested :D
<Laney> ops plz
<Laney> man I miss op begging
<Laney> what happened to that?
<MartijnVdS> Services ;)
<MartijnVdS> try visiting ircnet some time.. ops begging galore
<MooDoo> Laney: say it at the meeting :p
<Laney> well, you could beg to be added to the ACL
<Laney> I guess I only hang around in grown up channels now ...
<MooDoo> Laney: I joined the launchpad teams for ubuntu and ubuntu-offtopic, noy saying i'm gonna get it, but I can ask :D
<MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<Laney> can't talk; watching budget
<directhex> ok, pc mostly built... off to maplin to fill in minor gaps
<MooDoo> oh yeah budget
<foobarry> what a waste of time. took the bus to the bank and couldn't open an account because they didn't have any forms
<davmor2> foobarry: try first direct I've heard good things of them by a lot of their users
<davmor2> foobarry: they are just online/phone
<DJones> "minor gaps" thats the cooling system ventilation
<foobarry> how do you prove things about yourself? birth certs etc?
<MooDoo> yeah birth certificate, driving license, utility bill
<davmor2> foobarry: no idea
<foobarry> how do you do that with an online bank?
<MooDoo> sometimes they ask you to fax off the information or email it to them....trouble is if you've not got a scanner etc.
<davmor2> foobarry: I have no idea they get around it some how
<foobarry> this is for my kids
<MooDoo> ah
<davmor2> foobarry: I said I've heard good things about them, I don't use them but the 2 guys I know who have accounts with them swear by them and won't go anywhere else
<foobarry> FD don't seem to do kids accounts
<jussi> FD?
<foobarry> first dfirect
<jussi> MooDoo: its called a smartphone camera :P
<jussi> I _love_ the banking systems in Finland - Im sure Myrtti can say similar (with no mentions of a certain bank and java sw)
<Myrtti> theyve moved out of using it
<neuro> oh good, nearly Budget time
<foobarry> "oh good"
<jussi> Myrtti: oh, that is nice news
<Laney> come on
<Laney> give the whole allowance to cash isas
<Laney> excellent
<neuro> typical schizophrenic tory budget
<neuro> tobacco duty to continue increasing as there's "no health benefit"
<neuro> but alcohol duty escalator scrapped, and beer duty cut by 1p?
<foobarry> sounds ok
<jussi> BEER!!!
<foobarry> cigs are bad, alcoholl can be enjoyed in moderation and keeps populace happy
<neuro> i'm pretty sure booze is unhealthy
<jussi> neuro: only in unhealthy quntities
<foobarry> not the amount i drink
<jussi> especially wine, red wine is very good in small quantaties
<foobarry> i drink port
<foobarry> in a very small glass
<foobarry> with a piece of shortbread
<jussi> I love port.
<neuro> so if i have one cig a week, i should be penalised?
<foobarry> yes
<neuro> because?
<jussi> it only damages you.
<davmor2> foobarry: you put pieces of shortbread into a small glass of port!  There is something wrong with you dude ;)
<foobarry> you probably poinced it off someone
<foobarry> and didn't buy a packet
<foobarry> smoking is a luxury way to kill yourself.
<jussi> alcohol in moderation is good/ok. cigarettes in moderation are still bd
 * neuro lights up another death stick
<neuro> stuff the lot of you :)
<jussi> heh
<popey> neuro: have you considered robo-fags?
<neuro> no
<foobarry> why not?
<popey> in know aquarius loves to jack-in and charge up his leccy-fags
<neuro> it's just as hazardous as smoking real cigs and it's completely unlicensed and unregulated
<foobarry> they will ban ecigs indoors soon
<neuro> good
<foobarry> citation needed
<popey> i suspect they won't
<foobarry> " it's just as hazardous as smoking real cigs"
<popey> and it'll be down to the individual company
<foobarry> popey: they are doing it in states
<neuro> do you have any idea what's in these cylinders?
<popey> you do if you mix your own
<popey> i see a number of people making their own mix on t'internet
<foobarry> also you are not breathing in smoke
<popey> seems quite a popular pasttime
<davmor2> popey: yeah passive vapouring :D
<neuro> foobarry: you're still breathing in chemicals
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> also, a smoker saying"do you know whats in those things is a bit much"
<neuro> is it?
<shauno> the most common concern is that because they're not regulated, we don't actually know what the long-term threat is.  "just as dangerous" is as unprovable as "no danger at all"
<neuro> that too
<popey> yeah
<popey> no long term scientific study
<popey> lets vape while we can! :D
<neuro> at least with cigs i know what i'm getting into
<neuro> lol
<popey> see 40 years ago with ciggies
<MartijnVdS> just don't do either :P
<neuro> no
<neuro> it's called an addiction for a reason
<foobarry> i thought it was a hobby
<neuro> not at these prices
<popey> the speaker of the house has a hilarious accent
<foobarry> it was a hobby when you started
<popey> is it from liverpool?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that's "resignation to being addicted"
<neuro> popey: deputy speaker
<popey> ah
<foobarry> milliband is such a tool. he was the annoying kid in class
<neuro> he's no more a tool than the rest of the muppets in parliament
<neuro> the commons is a joke
<neuro> listen to them just now
<foobarry> the wallace and gromit likeness is too much for me
<shauno> (and "you're still breathing in chemicals" is scare-mongering.  you're breathing in chemicals even if you don't smoke.  silly oxygen-addicts)
<neuro> this is meant to be an opposition response to the budget, not a classroom full of ADHD-afflicted kids
<foobarry> don't touch that h2o
<neuro> shauno: whatever makes you sleep at night :)
<shauno> dioxyhydroxide has been proven fatal though ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's also been proven that the more birthdays you've had, the likelier you are to die!
<shauno> this is why we have the RNLI trying to prevent overdoses
<foobarry> good news about 40% rate of tax
<neuro> is it?
<foobarry> argh
<popey> No Girls Aloud!?
<foobarry> i thought they were raising it loads
<foobarry> they aren't
<neuro> good
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> Threshold for 40p income tax to rise from Â£41,450 to Â£41,865 next month and by a further 1% to Â£42,285 next year
<foobarry> have to continue giving loads to charity then
<foobarry> will they call the new combined ISA a tessa?
<neuro> "The New ISA"
<MartijnVdS> 40p income tax or 40%? :)
<neuro> same thing
<MartijnVdS> neuro: nah, Â£42000-40p != Â£42000-40%
<neuro> it means 40 pence on the pound
<neuro> so 40%
<MartijnVdS> ah
<jussi> is it not only applied to earnings above 42k?  ie. if you earn 50k, the 40% tax rate is only appied to the ~8k about 42?
<neuro> and we operate on a graduated income tax rate
<neuro> Â£0-31,865 = 20%
<neuro> Â£31,866 - 150,000 = 40%
<neuro> >Â£150,000 = 45%
<foobarry> jussi: yes
<neuro> plus a tax free allowance of Â£0-10,000 = 0% where eligible, i.e. first income
<foobarry> but if you give to charrideee then that comes off the top of your income
<neuro> but if you give to charidee, then you don't have that income any more
 * neuro is mercenary, a fiver to ORG every month aside
<foobarry> yes, but since most people do, its handy to reclaim the tax
<foobarry> some people give 15% of their earning
<neuro> good for them
<neuro> glad they can afford it
<neuro> i can't
<foobarry> thats cos u smoke ;)
 * foobarry ducks
<neuro> nowt to do with that
<neuro> i'm just now emerging from Stupid Times with Credit
<ali1234> 40% tax rate shift is just a tax cut for the rich
<neuro> yup
<MartijnVdS> Our (dutch) taxes are â¬0-19645 -> 36.25%; â¬19646-56531 -> 42%; â¬56532 and up: 52%
<neuro> plus they benefit from the increase in tax free allowance
<neuro> holy crap
<foobarry> high tax is OK if it works
<ali1234> yes
<foobarry> e.g. denmark
<foobarry> UK and US suffer from scale
<MartijnVdS> neuro: There's a HUGE way to get money back for home owners though (some huge percentage of interest paid on mortgages is deductible)
<ali1234> i think a large number of people don't understand how the tax system works
<ali1234> they think that if they get a pay rise from 40k to 41k then that means they suddenly pay twice as much tax
<foobarry> MIRAS gone canned in the 90s
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: s/the tax system/anything in the world/
<foobarry> ali1234: although they do lose a lot of other benfits
<foobarry> e.g. child benefit
<ali1234> i think employers specifically use this confusion to say things like "well, if i give you a pay rise it will put you into the next tax bracket and you will end up with less" (which is of course impossible)
<foobarry> not a very sliding scale
<neuro> so don't have kids
<foobarry> you should be able to pool the tax with your spouse
<foobarry> my wife is a full time mum, so i should be able to aggrgate our earnings
<neuro> if your wife is a full time mum, what earnings is she getting?
<ali1234> no you shouldn't
<foobarry> we are a family unity
<foobarry> unit
<ali1234> and also all the food and stuff you buy for your family should be taxed as payment in kind
<neuro> :)
<foobarry> we're not a company
<neuro> there you go then
<foobarry> i'm not alllowed to pay my wife 10k pa
<neuro> sure you are
<foobarry> u sure?
<neuro> as long as you pay the Class A NICs and the PAYE etc
<ali1234> that's below minimum wage
<ali1234> so no, you;re not
<neuro> hehe
<foobarry> could pay her for 16hrs/week part time
<neuro> why?
<ali1234> as long as she works 24 hrs a week in another job, and then pays tax on that too
<dwatkins> I didn't think we had any laws about minimum wage.
<neuro> Â£6.31/hr
<dwatkins> ah ok, perhaps it was the US that doesnt have them.
<neuro> https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates
<foobarry> lots of plumbers "employ" their wife
<dwatkins> I was half listening to something on the radio the other day about it.
<foobarry> to be paid from the company
<neuro> dwatkins: US statutory minimum wage is $7.25/hr
<popey> Myrtti: http://imgur.com/cWxhOty,Y4QJ8ub  first couple of pics taken with my foldio
<foobarry> i can âIf your wife is not a director of the company, and does not have a contract of employment, then you must then you must pay her at least the National Minimum Wage.â
<neuro> why "must" you pay her?
<neuro> this is all very confusing
<Myrtti> popey: nice
<davmor2> popey: lego model would be better ;)
<popey> true
<foobarry> if i had a company then i could pay her 10k pa and she would not pay tax on it
<neuro> foobarry: you'd still have to pay NI
<foobarry> corporation tax is much lower than 40% income tax
<foobarry> IT contractors seem to do OK out of the arrangement
<neuro> no, they really don't
<ali1234> yeah in my opinion you should have to pay it on top of income tax
<davmor2> popey: it would also tell you how good the colours were too :)
<ali1234> effectively, it should be mandatory for you to pay your wife minimum wage + VAT (because you're not a company) and then she should register as self employed and pay income tax on that money
<ali1234> i think this is the most fair arrangement
<neuro> VAT isn't payable on wages
<ali1234> it's not wages
<neuro> it's a salary
<ali1234> not it's not
<neuro> so it's a supplier arrangement then?
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> it's as if you hired someone to cook and clean your house 40 hours a week
<popey> thats not why people pay their wives though
<ali1234> i know it's not
<ali1234> i am not being totally serious either
<dwatkins> many plumbers also accept cash quite happily
<popey> s/plumbers/workers/
<ali1234> foobarry suggested he should be able to use his wife's unused personal allowance against his own tax
<ali1234> i was merely explaining why he already gets a good deal :)
<dwatkins> That wouldn't surprise me, it's only plumbers I've had say that they will accept cash.
<shauno> cash is 'acceptable', wink wink nudge nudge
<neuro> "pooling" of income, to me, sounds discriminatory at any rate
<neuro> s/at any rate/in any case/ just to make it clear i'm not talking about tax rates
<neuro> who would qualify?
<neuro> if applicable to married couples, would that cover civil partnerships?
<neuro> and it would be discriminatory to unmarried couples and single workers
<shauno> that's sort of how it works here. I can use my wife's tax credits
<neuro> yeah, tax credits are one thing
<neuro> but it's quite another to say "husband earns Â£31K, wife earns Â£24K, let's bundle it to Â£55K and only charge tax rates on the bundle"
<shauno> so, eg, while she was unemployed, my ceiling for base-rate tax was increased
<neuro> and in fact, that's probably a more lunatic way to do it
<neuro> since you'd lose out on two sets of tax free allowances, and you'd get hit with the 40% rate instead of not at all
<ali1234> that's not what anyone suggested
<neuro> 13:59 <foobarry> my wife is a full time mum, so i should be able to aggrgate our earnings
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and also double all the rate thresholds
<neuro> where was that mentioned?
<ali1234> that's what he meant
<ali1234> what would be the point otherwise?
<neuro> that sounds equally stupid
<ali1234> if his wife has no earnings then it wouldn't affect his tax situation at all unless you did that
<neuro> oh i see what you're saying
<neuro> so that makes it even worse
<ali1234> example: you earn 10K and your wife earns 10K. neither of you pays tax. you earn 20K and your wife earns 0. neither of you pays tax under foobarry's suggested system
<neuro> yup, discriminatory
<neuro> and would probably lead to tax revenue shortfall
<neuro> i wonder how many fake marriages that would lead to :)
<shauno> that's my basic impression of how it works here  (nb: I barely understand taxes.  I've resigned myself to believe they're not meant to be understood)
<neuro> they're pretty straightforward, at least the basic tenets of UK income tax are
<neuro> i wonder how little extra i'll get in my april wages with the allowance change
<neuro> listentotaxman reckons about a tenner
<ali1234> under my suggested system, a spouse with 0 income would be assumed to be being payed minimum wage and be required to pay tax on that
<ali1234> so: your income 10K - no tax: spouse's income 0 - must pay tax as if they earned minimum wage
<shauno> ..why?
<ali1234> well my system is a system which is as horribly biased as what foobarry suggested, but in the opposite direction
<MartijnVdS> it pays to be single? :)
<ali1234> and arguably just as "fair"
<neuro> you realise on minimum wage you still pay tax
<ali1234> neuro: yes, that's the point
<neuro> Â£6.31/hr @ 37.5hrs/wk = Â£12.3Kpa
<neuro> gross
<foobarry> why is my system biased?
<neuro> it's biased towards people able to double up their salaries together
<neuro> just to pay less tax
<foobarry> but they share a bank account, they do douvble slaries
<neuro> or, you know, you could just pay tax
<neuro> so what?
<neuro> it's open to abuse
<shauno> I don't see why it's biased
<neuro> because it's biased towards people able to double up their salaries together
<neuro> i'm not married, how do I do it? i can't
<shauno> split the couple up, the working partner pays his "fair" taxes, and the non-working partner receives housing benefits, unemployment benefits, etc
<neuro> still confused
<neuro> i don't like being confused
<neuro> we should stop making things up that aren't going to happen
<shauno> have the working partner assume thoses costs of the non-working partner, and suddenly you cry foul?
<ali1234> shauno: that is my suggestion
<neuro> "assume those costs"?
<neuro> i was talking about foobarry's suggestio
<neuro> n
<shauno> yes, so am I
<ali1234> shauno: have the working partner "assume" the costs at market rate, by paying the none working partner minimum wage. and then tax it.
<neuro> too many crazy suggestions
<neuro> or you could JUST PAY YOUR TAXES NORMALLY LIKE THE REST OF US
<BigRedS> one important requirement of a tax code is that it be indecipherable
<shauno> real-world example.  my wife became unemployed.  she went to see what benefits she could receive.  the answer was "very little, because I make over x"
<neuro> yup
<neuro> because you're deemed, together, to be financially capable
<shauno> the fact that I could use her tax cutoff is the balance to this.  otherwise it's skewed towards single people
<neuro> it's decided that it should be personal responsibility to make ends meet by whatever means necessary
<neuro> yeah but single people don't always have a partner to lean on for support
<MartijnVdS> isn't that sort-of the definition of "single"
<neuro> duh
<shauno> so we should be deemed 'together, financially capable' for benefits purposes but not tax purposes?
<neuro> what tax purposes?
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone managed to get name resolution working with multiple networks?
<neuro> you'd be paying less tax, together
<shauno> foobarry's suggestion of sharing the tax cutoff between two partners
<neuro> albeit you'd still be paying the same rates individually
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: in what sense? You could mean several things by that
<neuro> if you were single and you were unemployed and you had >Â£16K in the bank, you'd also be told you couldn't get many benefits
<neuro> is that skewed towards poor people?
<shauno> so if my wife becomes unemployed, the only financially sensible reaction would be to kick her out so she can claim benefits?
<BigRedS> neuro: the pertinent difference, I think, is that benefits are calculated on the basis of the income of the claimant *and their partner*, taxes only on the individual
<neuro> the financially sensible reaction would be to reduce your outgoings until wifey becomes ununemployed
<TwistedLucidity> I have eth0 (home lan/Interent) and eth1 (corporate). At the moment i can resolve corporate name OK "for.company.local" but nothing on the home/Internet
<BigRedS> Which one is your default gateway? Where is the DNS server?
<TwistedLucidity> This is in a VM, the host is Windows running a VPN (the host can do full name resolution, as can another Windows guest)
<BigRedS> er, which one *has* your default gateway
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: Well, there's multiple DNS servers
<BigRedS> if all your traffic's going out on eth1 then you're not going to reach any non-corporate DNS servers
<neuro> unless there are routes in place
<BigRedS> yes, but can the ones your gateway will forward traffic on to resolve these "on the home/Internet" things you can't resolve?
<MartijnVdS> and that's why you don't want a split-personality DNS
<MartijnVdS> because it's impossible to merge again
<TwistedLucidity> eth0 and eht1 are both active. eth1 is configured to only take traffic for it. I have set-up routes on eth1
<BigRedS> so your default gateway is out of eth0, towards the Internet?
<TwistedLucidity> How do I check?
<BigRedS> route -n
<neuro> run bind on your gateway and secondary *.company.local from the corp nameserver
<neuro> and do resolution via bind on the gateway
<TwistedLucidity> I see do entry tagged "Default Gateway"
<TwistedLucidity> Is it "0.0.0.0"?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> that's a default
<neuro> tum te tum
<MartijnVdS> also, use" ip route", it can do way cooler things with routes
<Seeker`> eugh, my mediaserver keeps on rebooting itself
<neuro> have you tried turning it off and on again?
<TwistedLucidity> Cool, there are three entries for that. One where it's destination (eth0) and then two where it is gateway (eth0 and eth1)
<TwistedLucidity> I can ping by IP no issue (eht0 or eth1). The only thing not working is name resolution. For some reason Ubuntu isn't trying the DNS's in turn. It seems to hit the first and then give up.
<neuro> multiple entries are there in case the first one isn't accesible
<neuro> you need to bring name resolution local
<neuro> and secondary *.company.local
<TwistedLucidity> Hmmm....that won't be possible
<neuro> unlucky then
<neuro> :)
<TwistedLucidity> neuro: What do you mean by "and secondary *.company.local"?
<Seeker`> neuro: what do you think the reboot did? :P
<neuro> Seeker`: ;)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: "Install DNS-server software, and have it become a secondary nameserver for the company internal domain"
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: basically
<neuro> TwistedLucidity: i mean you pull the dns data for *.company.local to your local resolver and your client looks up records from the secondary data
<TwistedLucidity> Oh - deffo not possible
<neuro> either using bind which will try to pull the whole zone (which may not be permitted by your corp nameserver) or a caching nameserver
<MartijnVdS> or have the company resolver *also* resolve internet addresses (but then you're leaking that to $employer)
<neuro> won't help local lan name resolution tho
<TwistedLucidity> I was hoping the local dnsmasq would try each DNS in turn until it either got an answer or ran out of servers.
<neuro> e.g. 192.168.1.2 = foo.whatever
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: that's not how DNS works
<TwistedLucidity> I thought the entire point of Ubuntu installing a dnsmaaq instance was to do exactly that.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: no, it is for switching networks on the go -- Wifi to wired to 3G etc.
<TwistedLucidity> Ah
<MartijnVdS> but only one "active" at a time
<TwistedLucidity> Strange that Ubuntu can't manage it yet Windows is perfectly happy with the set-up. I guess I needs to start adding entires to hosts and keeping 'em up to dat
<TwistedLucidity> "date"
<MartijnVdS> you can set up a local caching nameserver that knows it has to look at one remote server for <company internal> and to The Interweb for the rest
<MartijnVdS> maybe dnsmasq can even do that
<ali1234> i know this one
<neuro> tis what i said already
<ali1234> dnsmasq can do it
<neuro> :)
<ali1234> it's not even hard
<MartijnVdS> ali1234, TwistedLucidity. TwistedLucidity, ali1234 .
<TwistedLucidity> Yes it can. and that is why I am really confused by why it isn't
<ali1234> because ubuntu has a special dnsmasq set up
<MartijnVdS> because you didn't tell it :)
<ali1234> but luckily you can manipulate it through network manager
<TwistedLucidity> Err...Network Manager has all the DNS settings (I think)
<neuro> oh
<neuro> dnsmasq takes flags
<ali1234> you don't put it in the gui
<ali1234> wait while i find the config
<neuro> --server=/company.local/ip.addr.of.corpns
<neuro> it's in the man page
<ali1234> you can't specify switches to the ubuntu dnsmasq instance
<ali1234> but it is the right config option, you just have to put it in a special config file on ubuntu
<neuro> so it goes in the config, it seems
<neuro> server=/company.local/ip.addr.of.corpns
<TwistedLucidity> Network Manager also overwrites many of the config files depending on GUI entries
<neuro> e.g. server=/example.com/10.1.5.100
<ali1234> yeah, you put that in a file in /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d
<TwistedLucidity> What I can't find is which file is configuring dnsmasq
<ali1234> and ubuntu will use it
<neuro> yay, we solved it
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, thanks; shall look now
<neuro> do the happy dance
<neuro> \o/
<neuro> .o/
<ali1234> i use this for namecoin resolution
<neuro> \o.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: *\o/* */o\* ?
<neuro> pom poms?
<neuro> really?
<TwistedLucidity> So - daft question - what is the point of giving Network Manager DNS entries in the GUI if it ignores them?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: aren't you happy?!
<neuro> no
<neuro> because Network Manager is consumer-grade software?
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: it doesn't ignore them, but you cannot specify a special DNS server for a specific domain through the gui
<neuro> and you're trying to do some corporate/enterprise/server funkiness?
<TwistedLucidity> Isn't that what "Search Domains" is for?
<neuro> no
<TwistedLucidity> Ah
<neuro> that's so you can look up 'foo'
<neuro> and get the details for 'foo.example.com
<neuro> when you have 'example.com' in your search domains
<MartijnVdS> well, it COULD be, if your company just published its internal hosts in public DNS
<neuro> I DO THAT
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't be a problem, as long as they (a) have a good firewall and/or (b) use RFC1918 addresses
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I get that. And just above are the DNS servers. So "example.com" is directly related to them. Surely.
<neuro> that's not what search domains means
<neuro> it's like saying to a phone "your search domain is 01234" and then being able to dial 567890 instead of 01234 567890.
<BigRedS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1291383
<BigRedS> for some reason ping is used for name resolution there...
<neuro> the list of name servers and the search domains are unrelated
<BigRedS> Oh, I guess you automatically get the ptr record from ping
<neuro> yar
<neuro> because it's nice and stuff
<TwistedLucidity> neuro: I totally get that. But why doesn't it take the DNS servers I have explicitly told it about when it is trying adding one of the search domains.
 * TwistedLucidity does not understand networking
<neuro> TwistedLucidity: because they are unrelated
<neuro> the search domains are just look up shortcuts
<TwistedLucidity> Time get got married then!
<ali1234> you might need strict-order in the config file too
<TwistedLucidity> "Time they got..."
<neuro> the name servers are just addresses to check one after the other until a result is returned
<neuro> even if the result is NXDOMAIN
<neuro> the server= config item is the magic bit
<TwistedLucidity> So if I add some entries into /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d/foo; dnsmasq will (hopefully) know which DNS server to check when a particular Search Doman has been tagged on?
<ali1234> yes
<neuro> i can't answer that
<neuro> there you go
<neuro> i don't use dnsmasq, at all
<ali1234> you have to restart network manager though
<TwistedLucidity> Gonna test that in a sac
 * neuro hugs bind
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, comes preinstalled
<neuro> meh, not fit for my purposes :)
<neuro> i run one set of zone files
<neuro> and push them out to all my name servers, both public and private
<neuro> i use bind views to get RFC or public addresses respectively based on query source
<neuro> i.e. split horizon
<TwistedLucidity> Same problem - no Internet name resolution.
<TwistedLucidity> Corporate name resoltuon also broken - Search Domains not being applied
<TwistedLucidity> If I use the FQDN, that works
<neuro> try adding the corp domain into search domains
<TwistedLucidity> Already done
<neuro> man 8 dnsmasq
<neuro> or
<neuro> https://kb.isc.org/article/AA-01031
<TwistedLucidity> Kill eth1 and Internet comes back....interesting
<ali1234> this is not a DNS issue
<ali1234> this is a routing issue
<neuro> it's also a dns issue
<TwistedLucidity> This is a PEBKAC issues....
<neuro> lol
 * neuro gets back to trying to back up 110GiB of maildirs over a 4 meg link :P
<TwistedLucidity> neuro: Thanks, but I am not throwing bind into the mix. Hard enough using the default software....
<TwistedLucidity> It's working. HAH!
<TwistedLucidity> I had to set "Use this connection only for resources on its network" on *both* eth0 and eth1
<TwistedLucidity> No I will remove the server entry and (in theory) it will break again. Which I want because that means I'm editing the correct config
<TwistedLucidity> And it still works. Whut? Oh well, it works. It'll do for now. Thanks for the help.
 * TwistedLucidity wanders off to find a "Networking for total morons" class at the local tech college....
<BigRedS> I think it's much easier to just not do networking
<BigRedS> I make any networking problem someone else's
<TwistedLucidity> Now it doesn't work >.< I changed nothing.
<TwistedLucidity> It's reverted to corporate working an Internet not. Sod it, I have an easy answer.
<TwistedLucidity> Turn the interface on/off as required
<jussi> TwistedLucidity: you have an awesome nick. that is all.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: create a VM and bridge it with the corporate interface ;)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: then do work things on the VM instead
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: This is in a VM....
<TwistedLucidity> eth0 is bridged (and can only see local/Internet). eth1 is on NAT and can see the VPN running on the host.
<shauno> OT:  I hate excel.  I really hate excel.
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: I feel your pain
<jussi> err what is the process "http" anyone know?
<TwistedLucidity> Apache?
<jussi> running as root...  and eating 25% of my cpu...
<jussi> hrm, its on my desktop....
<MartijnVdS> jussi: ps fax shows its parent
<MartijnVdS> jussi: probably apt
<TwistedLucidity> Cheers everyone - a wee bitty more fiddling and I *think* I got all the various configs/services aligned.
<TwistedLucidity> Really annoying when you know *exactly* what you want to happen; you know it possible; but you simply can't see how.
<TwistedLucidity> And it also doesn't help when the company's DNS doesn't agree with the DHCP server.....
<TwistedLucidity> Yup...the DNS is disavowing all knowledge of the sever I am RDP'd into.
<TwistedLucidity> Please excuse, I think I am going to have to do and hurt someone.
<BigRedS> If I'm moving from a 686 machine to an amd64 one how much of a daft idea is it to rsync /etc/ between them?
<TwistedLucidity> The dnsmasq "server=/" thing; can you give multiple entires for a "Search Domain"? I know "server=/foo.com/..." and "server=/www.foo.com/..." are accepted. Just can't tell from the docs if duplicates are.
<TwistedLucidity> And why is it ignore /etc/hosts? GAH! I hate networking!
<TwistedLucidity> Bug 993298 is why. *sigh*
<lubotu3> bug 993298 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Please make NetworkManager-controlled dnsmasq respect /etc/hosts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993298
<ali1234> that's not actually a bug
<ali1234> /etc/hosts works at the kernel level
<ali1234> if you put an entry in it, it will never call out to the DNS server at all
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Turned out that my issue was fat-finger-itis
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: don't let dick_turpin know you hang out here you'll get tarred with the same brush as popey and me ;)
<popey> "meh"
<davmor2> popey: that's just your cold/hayfever talking :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I'm not important enough to be a target.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: haha
<TwistedLucidity> At least the Xubuntu intall today went better than last night's Fedora one. :-(
<directhex> unrealengine 4 pricing: crazypants
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: \o/ we rock at installing
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Morning dude :D
<bigcalm> Wonderfully productive morning without IRC ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't believe you :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: not coming tonight. Don't want my car to breakdown either to or from
<davmor2> bigcalm: might not be there anyway too much stuff on
<MooDoo> hello all
<bubu> hey guys, anyone use non bash ( i.e. ruby ) pre/post install scripts for debian packages?
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<davmor2> Mez: how the blazes are you?
<mapps> arghh
<mapps> why must i smoke when im out ;(
<mapps> yet again bought another pack of cigs at the casino..10 freaking pounds
<davmor2> mapps: because when your out there is this overwhelm desire your friends have to set fire to you?
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 at home cleaning up for a bit
<mapps> heh
<davmor2> MooDoo: no wonder you came on irc ;)
<mapps> just an idiot
<mapps> cant stop the drinking cant stop the gambling
<MooDoo> davmor2: waiting for this irc meeting :D
<mapps> so of course i start smoking again:D
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah yeah any excuse ;)
<davmor2> mapps: you can you just have to want to
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush the wife will see
<davmor2> hahaha
<mapps> easier said than done..my whole life is those two things
<mapps> wakeup go on betfair/betfair forum..go to work watch sport (i work for a bookie) .finish work go to casino drink
<mapps> go to tesco buy more
<mapps> sleep repeat
<mapps> yes judge judys on
<mapps> love that show
<davmor2> mapps: you really need help
<MooDoo> +1
<shauno> random question .. anyone know off-hand where I could find a parsable list of each country with its native spelling?  (I have a list in english, not a list in the 'official' name of each)
<MooDoo>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_and_their_capitals_in_native_languages this?
<shauno> it's almost on-topic because I'm blaming the brits for this one.  I have to make a second index of country names because the brits can never guess what their country is called :/
<MooDoo> not sure about it being parsable though
<shauno> hm, it'd be the closest I've found yet, ta.  I think I was mentally avoiding wiki so I didn't end up opening each country and copy/pasting
<davmor2> shauno: technically it is the Americans it is American English on the interwebz no British English :P
<shauno> ah, this is intrawebs, I have no americans to blame :)
<davmor2> shauno: but the list you have will almost certainly still be American English :P
<shauno> is, it's [the] united kingdom [of stuff].  great britain is an island.  but it's easier to search a second dictionary than teach people this :(
<shauno> *ps
<ali1234> why don't you just have a drop down box?
<shauno> basically because the brits complain :(  is britain at the top, the uk at the bottom, or great britain in the middle?
<MooDoo> I'm english not british :p
<shauno> (also, we're using 'while you type' searches for everything else, so it keeps it all cohesive)
<directhex> http://steamdb.info/app/20920/#section_history
<shauno> gog weren't kidding!
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think you'll find that is English little pride in the capital E if you please ;)
<MooDoo> my apologise sir
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's better, now for the Queen and Saint George Charge
<shauno> no pride for the comma, eh?
<directhex> saint george. patron saint of  Georgia, Egypt, Bulgaria, Aragon, Catalonia, Romania, Ethiopia, Greece, India, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Serbia, Ukraine, Russia and Syria
<davmor2> shauno: No I hate coma's
<MooDoo> I wish people would talk proper like what i does
<shauno> directhex: you forgot England purposefully?
<shauno> reminds me, accidentally watched the news this morning.  A lot of somebody's military in the ukraine/crimea/mess appeared to have scottish flags on their helmets.
<directhex> shauno, yes!
<diddledan> shauno: that'll be the newly independant scottish national front
<diddledan> otherwise known as those ginger tits
<diddledan> </troll>
<shauno> :/  not cool man
<diddledan> no?
<shauno> no wonder they want to leave with stuff like that
<diddledan> it's because they want to leave that I stir the pot
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-20
<directhex> UE4 has an asset store
<directhex> i hate to use the word "doomed", but unity3d might be doomed
<daftykins> directhex: oh?
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> moin
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> morning popey
<DJones> Beating JamesTait, Happy "International Day of Happiness"
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Why are you beating JamesTait? That's not a happy thing!
<DJones> Ah well, there goes the happiness
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Storytelling Day! :-D
 * JamesTait forgives DJones.
<DJones> Much appreciated
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Rackspace cloud server is not responding to http or ssh. Is there anything I can do before just rebooting it?
<MooDoo> ping?
<MooDoo> do you have console access to it?
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I've just managed to ssh into it from another one of our cloud servers
<bigcalm> Now trying to ssh out of the server
<bigcalm> Yeah, can't ssh out
<bigcalm> So the local network is working
<bigcalm> Looking at /sbin/ifconfig, the public ip address is up on eth0
<bigcalm> Is it ifup and ifdown to tinker with an interface?
<MooDoo> what flavour?  centos?
<MooDoo> ubuntu?
<foobarry> service network restart if you have ilom access.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: Debian something
<bigcalm> I've down ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 - still not accessable externally
<bigcalm> About to reboot and then get on to Rackspace support
<bigcalm> Apparently this has happened before
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: sweet talk SuperMatt to take a look for you ;)
<MartijnVdS> yeah, blame SuperMatt
<brobostigon> mot bad MooDoo and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah ok thank, was in a ubuntu irc ops meeting last night and my brain is still mush :)
<MooDoo> I blame AlanBell
<brobostigon> mush, oh dear.
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> Rebooting the cloud server has fixed it
<bigcalm> This happening once might be dismissed. But twice in 3 days isn't good
<bigcalm> MooDoo & MartijnVdS: I promised SuperMatt that I wouldn't talk to him about RS ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, in case this is of interest to anybody who has missed our so far...
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bashrc> morning
<bigcalm> 7 peeps confirmed so far. Will be fun
<bashrc> ale + trains + ubuntu.  What could go wrong?
<bigcalm> And the public network connectivity has gone away again. Grr
<MooDoo> bashrc: drinking too much then being sick over your laptop
<MooDoo> bigcalm: are you sure it's not just user error?
<MooDoo> ;)
<bigcalm> Humf
<bigcalm> multitail isn't showing mad traffic
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: is anyone looking at #1292069? :)
<bigcalm> bug 1292069 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1292069 in Unity "After locking the screen manually (Ctrl+Alt+L), then walking away, need to unlock twice" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292069
<bigcalm> Rackspace's hold music is quite funky
<bigcalm> multitail is cool!
<bashrc> upgraded the server to kernel 3.13
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it looks like there was let me have a word latter
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka how was your day in the end?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok till i went to the irc operators meeting, wow they work hard and fast lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you saying you don't work hard and fast normally?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've got two speeds slow and stop
<bigcalm> Does anybody have a very simple script to check a website is accessible and email when it isn't?
<diplo> I use Nagios to monitor ours, but probably had something in the past
<diplo> Could use a simple bash to telnet to 80 and mail on fail ? or wget or something along those lines
<bigcalm> diplo: that's what I was thinking. I don't have time to set up full monitoring. Just need something simple :)
<bigcalm> http://www.howtoforge.com/simple-bash-script-to-monitor-your-webserver-remotely-on-different-ports for example
<diplo> Pretty much what I was thinking in my head, albeit not so complex
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> It does look a tiny bit ott
<diplo> Don't RS offer some sort of monitoring ? Sure bitfolk had some nagios stuff
<bigcalm> At a cost, sure
<diplo> Well you could remove half the code and just have http
<bigcalm> Yep
<diplo> I think I got fedup maintaining different scripts and installed nagios from repos and had a basic setup 20 mins later
<diplo> And it's advanced since then
<davmor2> bigcalm: you could use selenium simple test and python and cron I gues
<davmor2> s
<bigcalm> Test in place, back to work I go
<DJones> Hmmh, searching on google for a information about medical relapses brings up "Where to buy viagra in Kenya".... Seems an odd link
<jussi> DJones: one day you will realise there are many odd things on the interwebs...
<DJones> jussi: This is very true, where would the internet be without cat pictures
<jussi> DJones: horrible thought, please dont mention it again :P
<mapps> damn it's so windy and cold
<mapps> when does 'summer' start
<awilkins> Anyone know a way to get Git to calculate the hash of a tree that isn't in a git repo?
<awilkins> You can do individual files
<awilkins> git hash-object
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7225313/how-does-git-compute-file-hashes
<MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hello!
<MartijnVdS> ooo
<MartijnVdS> oo
<MartijnVdS> o
<MartijnVdS> .
<brobostigon> coffee@popey.com
<MooDoo> thought i was the only one here ;)
<brobostigon> coffee@brobostigon.planet
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there's always SOMEONE watching
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: coffee@brobostigon.sexy?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i doubt it.
<davmor2> MooDoo: you are the rest of us are in the matrix
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush there can be only one
<davmor2> MooDoo: wrong film that's the Highlander you fool :P
<MooDoo> I know just shking it up a bit :D
<MooDoo> gonna take the blue pill after i've chopped a few heads
 * davmor2 paints a red pill blue and laughs all the way to bank
 * davmor2 watches MooDoo run from agent smith for the rest of the day
<MooDoo> yeeeehah
<brobostigon> lol
<Myrtti> http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/03/tech-meetup-london-uk-21th-march-jolla-tizen-ubuntu-firefoxos-meego/
<popey> ooh
<popey> i might go to that and "represent"
 * davmor2 pictures popey in a back to front cap, big gold chain and rings, with a blinin' tooth when he says "Representin'"
<davmor2> Respec to da popey
<mapps> hm
<davmor2> mapps: hummmm
<mapps> its raining :(
<mapps> was just hmming about that
<Hornet> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7125985/ am I missing something here - grub just sits there awaiting manual selection rather than automatically booting the first entry?
<Hornet> need a sanity check
<mapps> yea i had the same too, had to add a line in to fix it
<mapps> GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT="5"
<mapps>  was what fixed it for me
<Hornet> can't recall that in the docs
<Hornet> sec
<mapps> yea its not mentioned someone here gave me a url with it
<mapps> sec
<Hornet> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
<Hornet> yeah, it's not there
<mapps> http://askubuntu.com/questions/55551/how-can-i-force-ubuntu-to-boot-on-a-stuck-boot-menu
<mapps> GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT=$GRUB_TIMEOUT
<mapps> The fact that such option is completely undocumented is just too bad.
<Hornet> ...wonderful
<Hornet> well, added, will reboot and see what breaks
<Hornet> thanks, brb
<czajkowski> bigcalm: popey RAT tickets arrived :)
<popey> yay
<bigcalm> czajkowski: woo! glad you are joining us this year :)
<Hornet> mapps: no change
<bigcalm> popey: whom else came last year that might need reminding?
<Hornet> still waits for user input
<Hornet> and yes I updated grub
<czajkowski> bigcalm: as long as no events get in the way I am
<popey> bigcalm: i have told them
<bigcalm> popey: oh, okay :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I hope you keep your health as well!
<popey> and again
<bigcalm> czajkowski: in general, I hope you keep your health anyway :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: there is that :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: been rather sick since last week, so need some sunshine :)
<czajkowski> I figure after conference season so September I should be good to go on hols :p
<czajkowski> currently running 18 large events all over EMEA between 1st april and November 1st
<bigcalm> It's a good job Hayley and I have our curse pre-booked and paid for already. There's no way I could see how I would squeeze it in this year otherwise
<czajkowski> curse?
<czajkowski> cruise?
<bigcalm> The latter :)
<popey> Going on a 2 week curse
<czajkowski> some people do curse holidays so you never know
<popey> sounds like UDS :D
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * czajkowski is meant to be going on a cruise 
<czajkowski> need to A_ find the time B) narrow down location
<bigcalm> A week in the Norwegian Fjords
<popey> B) The sea.
<popey> my mum did that
<popey> she loves norway
<popey> her friend got very very very ill though
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> and came away with a 3K bill
<bigcalm> Ouch
<czajkowski> :o
<popey> indeed
<popey> not covered by insurance when at sea
<czajkowski> ohhh not good
<Hornet> if it's from another country then just don't pay?
<Hornet> debt is a civil matter
<bigcalm> We've gone for a completely pre-paid package, including drinks. Really hope there are no further expenses
<popey> yeah, this was pre-paid too
<popey> Hornet: they demanded the money on the boat
<bigcalm> Ah, so the ill wasn't drunk ill. It was a medical matter that cost 3K
<popey> yes
<popey> 3K maybe over the top, might have been less than that
<popey> cant remember
<bigcalm> Even so
<foobarry> was it a cruise?
<foobarry> floating disease ships
<foobarry> ah, read the scrollback
<Hornet> popey: and they had 3k cash on them?!
<popey> no
<maps|wrk> hai
<diddledan> bah @ crashing mac
<diddledan> it done reboobed itself 'cos it kernel-paniced
<maps|wrk> youve got a mac?
<maps|wrk> :)
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> what the frak? http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Mar/332
<daftykins> diddledan: indeed :( i read about that'un
<diddledan> sucks
<maps|wrk> sfw?
<diddledan> sfw!
<diddledan> maps|wrk: alternatively http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/19/full_disclosure_closes/
<maps|wrk> just read - what was it? a list - how do you use lists? i come across them for various google searches linux related.
<maps|wrk> but like how would you stay on top of it? or do you just have to know to check the list
<diddledan> it's an email mailing list - you subscribe to the list and it emails you whenever anyone emails the list address
<diddledan> whatever is sent to the mailing list email address is copied to each subscriber
<daftykins> they always seemed like a good way to get very frustrated, to me XD
<maps|wrk> ah but if you subscribed to a busy list wouldnt u get loads of emails?
<diddledan> bingo
<maps|wrk> heh
<diddledan> most mailing list software can allow the subscriber to choose between email-for-email or daily-digest
<diddledan> or turn off delivery altogether
<diddledan> for further reading try ezmlm, mailman or majordomo - three different opensource mailing list manager software
<maps|wrk> il have a look later, i hate it when i start getting too many emails..boring daily emails from zdnet/cnet etc
<maps|wrk> then all the spam too ugh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> morning!?
<bigcalm> I like it as my default greeting :)
<diddledan> morning
<bigcalm> Are you sure?
<popey> hello bigcalm
<popey> have you ever played openspades?
<bigcalm> popey: can't say that I have
<popey> you should, it's hilarious
<bigcalm> I should look at installing this things
<bigcalm> -s
<popey> get wine, and the windows version
<popey> it works really nicely
<diddledan> why does my galaxy nexus insist on telling me that there's an update available for image 188 when I've already got image 188 installed?!
<bigcalm> popey: okay, do you have a server running?
 * bigcalm looks at playing locally 1st
<popey> ooh
<maps|wrk> the ubuntu uk site mentions happy hour and how it was meant to be a monthly thing , what happened to that? ;/
<popey> people stopped organising them
<popey> bigcalm: i will jump on a low-user server for now...
<diddledan> happy hour?
<diddledan> whassat?
<popey> bigcalm: mcp-uk aos server #2
<popey> has 0 users
 * bigcalm searches
<maps|wrk> diddledan:  http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<diddledan> aah. shame it stopped
<ali1234> can you join the AA if you don't have a car?
<maps|wrk> why would you want to
<ali1234> because they have a policy that covers you as a passenger in any vehicle
<popey> bigcalm: you still in the game?
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<popey> i got disconnected
<bigcalm> Arse
<popey> bigcalm: join MCP-UK AoS server #1 hallway 24/7
<popey> its fun
<bigcalm> I was stuck in the river, making my way to you
<bigcalm> Okay
<popey> bah, i suck at that game â»
<diddledan> omg, chromecast is available in blighty! http://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/chrome/devices/chromecast/index.html
<bigcalm> popey: that was fun indeed
<daftykins> i noticed the other day my Nexus 4's YouTube app has a 'pair with your TV' option that lets you remotely play things onto it :O
<daftykins> (smart TV with a YouTube app built-in/installable)
 * bigcalm forces himself to listen to his boss' podcast and tries not to fall asleep
<popey> daftykins: yeah, i paired my devices and laptop with my xbox 360
<popey> not got a "smart" tv
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> my 360 is quite loud at idle in my setup :(
<daftykins> that thing can't powergate either so it's running 100% all the time
<bigcalm> Playing podcasts faster in vlc sounds weird
<bigcalm> What do peeps uses to listen to podcasts at faster than normal rate?
<bigcalm> Might get used to it actually. Voices sound normal, just quicker
<popey> i used to listen on my iphone quite a bit
<popey> at 2x speed
<maps|wrk> bigcalm:  why do you want to listen quicker than normal? super slow speaker or something?!
<bigcalm> maps|wrk: content I'm not really that interested in but feel I should listen to
<popey> maps|wrk: consumes half the time of course
<maps|wrk> what podcasts do you all follow?
<popey> i dont much anymore
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> bored bored bored
<maps|wrk> been reading stuff off the IBM developer zone
<maps|wrk_> hm
<maps|wrk_> seem to have lost the other client
<diddledan> buggerance
<diddledan> sorry, family friendly!
 * diddledan self-censures
<daftykins> get the sedative...
<maps|wrk_> oh now everyone wakes up
<maps|wrk_> hi diddledan
<maps|wrk_> hi daftykins
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> my battery is gone actually
<daftykins> seconds from death
<maps|wrk_> plug it in?!:)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-21
<jussi> yay.... im awake :/
<maps|wrk_> yay
<maps|wrk_> sup jussi
<jussi> hi maps|wrk_
<maps|wrk_> =]
<jussi> 2 year old decided that she isn't sleeping this night
<maps|wrk_> ah damn
<maps|wrk_> you got work in the morning?
<jussi> yup
<maps|wrk_> that aint good ;(
<jussi> nope
<maps|wrk_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ytvjz/Life_and_Death_Row_Execution/
<maps|wrk_> quite interesting
<daftykins> maps|wrk_: there was a cat on my lap
<daftykins> in super elongated mode, no less
<maps|wrk_> ah
<maps|wrk_> the cat sat on the mat
<maps|wrk_> O_o
<daftykins> i'm no matthew
<maps|wrk_> thats the rhyme they do at school :P
<maps|wrk_> for little kids
<maps|wrk_> heh
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> moin
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello diplo
<knightwise> hey hey
<MooDoo> hiya knightwise
<MooDoo> why is so hard to get a copy of a LPIC book :( raaaaaa
<jaime> 192.168.35.241
<Myrtti> indeed?
<DJones> Morning, happy Friday except for my wife who has to work all weekend
<popey> Morning all.
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan bashrc
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Common Courtesy Day! :-D
<bashrc> common courtesy.  blimey
<foobarry> must be why i got charged down by some woman getting off the entry doors of the bus today
<foobarry> and why my wife got lambasted for giving her son a babycino (frothy milk) in starbucks
<foobarry> "you're teaching him to drink coffee!!"
<foobarry> other mums are weird.
<awilkins> What the hell is wrong with drinking coffee anyway
<awilkins> Clear health and productivity benefits
<awilkins> Promotes a more vigorous global trade economy
<awilkins> Gives hipsters something to do that isn't drinking vodka and being maudlin about their MacBook going to sleep
<foobarry> my son is 4
<foobarry> but he wasn't drinking coffee so i have no idea why the crazy lady was abusing my missis
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> who also got abused by another mum because she looks after the kids full time :S
<MooDoo> hello davmore :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/bMX4THk7g4P :-D
<MooDoo> how cool is that
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> morning
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> does anyone know how to opt out of your medical records getting sent to 3rd party research?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Morning dude
<davmor2> popey: I love the head phones comment :)
<popey> â»
<popey> foobarry: i thought that deadline had passed
<daubers> Afternoon
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Car is currently in the garage having a git of an overhaul :(
<davmor2> git of an overhaul hey
<bigcalm> Typo but apt
<Laney> i'd prefer a bzr one
<Laney> pimp my ride
<davmor2> bigcalm: do they know what is up and have they given you a quote on a fix?
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's in for a full service as well as investigation work.
<bigcalm> davmor2: Most likely to be the ABS sensors
<davmor2> bigcalm: let me know cause I think mine might have a similar issue but it only seems to kick in when it has been raining
<bigcalm> davmor2: it went on for months and months, randomly appearing and disappearing. The last straw was the whole system going silly - turbo not being used, speed dial not working, console screaming STOP! at me, power steering not turning off after the ignition was
<bigcalm> davmor2: I love my 407, but it's turned out to be expensive :(
<davmor2> see fortunately I've not had any of those issues
<bigcalm> You've not had your car as long and I'm unlucky I'd say
<davmor2> bigcalm: :)
<bigcalm> Apart from drowning, my 406 cars were much more robust
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd say mine has been more reliable than my 406 but then we had issues galore with that, my 306 estate wass nice and just chugged along nice but cost a fortune :)
<DJones> Don't know if this is of any interest to Android owners http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/128031-amazon-giving-away-apps-worth-40-to-kindle-fire-and-android-owners-includes-swype-and-runtastic
<steffen> looool
<steffen> Hey, I was wondering if anybody know when the next episode of Ubuntu Uk Podcast will be out?. Been a long time since the last one
<popey> steffen: we're meeting up for curry soon
<popey> starts again in April
<steffen> popey: Ah, thanks a lot. Was starting to think something was wrong with my podcaster app :). Looking forward to April then !
<popey> \o/
<foobarry> popey: what a swindle. wasn't told anything about it
<popey> I saw it all over twitter
<popey> friends and celebs saying "last days to opt out"
<foobarry> i only follow machines on twitter :S
<foobarry> too late for me then
<foobarry> why wasn't there a proper upcry about this stealthy sale of our data?
<DJones> foobarry: There was, it was headline news for about 1-2 weeks before the project was postboned
<foobarry> but the data already got sold?
<foobarry> it shouldn't have to be on the news & twitter, they should write me a personal letter if they decide to opt me in
<foobarry> i didn't see it on bbc news though
<foobarry> read that most days
<foobarry> in other news. have you all played http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1g84m0sXpnNCv84GpN2PLZG/the-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy-game-30th-anniversary-edition
<DJones> foobarry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26239532
<popey> http://games.usvsth3m.com/2048-doctor-who-edition/ is fun
<foobarry> DJones: there isn't even an official form to opt out, and guarantee that the surgery will communicate your preference
<foobarry> i suspect the data has already been collected
<MooDoo> Any one use powerline ethernet?  I've just bought myself a starter kit.
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I have a TP-Link pair of adapters, but my mains is bad somehow, and I only get 2 MBit/s out of them between rooms.
<dwatkins> I assume there's interference.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: could be bad type of cable
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: stranded wire is bad for powerline ethernet (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Stranded_lamp_wire.jpg)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: solid is good: https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.ecolightled.com/images/trouble/solid_lrg.jpg
<dwatkins> I have them plugged directly into the wall, but it could indeed be the mains cables in the ring main, yeah.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I was going for the tplink but went with netgear in the end
<Myrtti> http://rudradevbasak.github.io/16384_hex/
<dwatkins> uh oh...
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm on a network, and i can't resolve something the dns is meant to be resolving.. my /etc/resolv.conf just says nameserver 127.0.0.1   searchdomain office.gb.ourcompany.net
<NET||abuse> what is the real dns server my machine is currently looking at?
<foobarry> do you have dns running on your pc?
<foobarry> if not , you need an additional nameserver line
<foobarry> nameserver 8.8.8.8 for example
<MartijnVdS> uh no
<MartijnVdS> the 127.0.0.1 is pointing to dnsmasq
<foobarry> ah, network manager does it now
<foobarry> annoyingly
<MartijnVdS> it won't on servers by default I think
<diddledan> a resolv.conf used to be stored somewhere in /var but I can't find it in 14.04
<MartijnVdS> that's because those used to use "resolvconf", now it uses dnsmasq? maybe?
<foobarry> DNSMasq configuration is now done via DBUS.
<foobarry> # See /var/log/syslog for the nameservers used.
<MartijnVdS> yes
<foobarry>  You can use files in /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d
<foobarry> # to configure dnsmasq.
<foobarry> superugly way to do it
<diddledan> fugging dbus
<diddledan> I hate that everything is moving away from the "unix way" of small tasks and plain-text config
<MartijnVdS> blame lennart
<diddledan> one binary per task!
<diddledan> e.g. "ls" it has one purpose only and doesn't try to do random things like change permissions
<diddledan> dbus makes everything really opaque to diagnose
<awilkins> Should respect the "everything is a file" principle and make a virtual filesystem with the dconf in it
<awilkins> Update config by opening files and saving them
<awilkins> Hmm, sounds vaguely familiar....
<mapps> afternoon
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> howdy
<daftykins> had to buy smart clothes today for upcoming events :O
<mapps> interview daftykins?
<daftykins> nah christening Sunday, then two weddings coming up
<diddledan> meh everyone's getting married off except me
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> trust me i am in no danger of that fate
<mapps> heh
<mapps> weddings are pretty tiresome
<mapps> i dont get invited to many..which i suppose isa good thing
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> have to come up to England for one in June/July
<daftykins> not a cheap time at all
<directhex> one more test to run through, and i can begin ISO seeding
<mapps> ISO seeding? what you trying directhex
<daftykins> \o/
<directhex> need to finally test dual-boot on RAID
<directhex> i know booting from RAID works, but debian-installer is in *such bad shape* for dmraid
<directhex> so i need to verify that it works
<daftykins> not as simple as having the dmrad packages available in the live session for it to be ready to see volumes properly? :(
<daftykins> *dmraid
<mapps> never heard of iso seeding though
<directhex> no. want the full technical breakdown?
<daftykins> i think i'm ok :)
<daftykins> mapps: he just means seeding a torrent containing a .ISO image
<knightwise> eeeevenin everyone
<knightwise> how are you guys doing tonight ?
<diddledan>  allo knightwise
<knightwise> hey diddledan
 * knightwise needs to flash his nexus 7 back to android
<knightwise> Ubuntu just isn't ready for prime time yett
<daftykins> i am fine ty sir, yourself? good week?
<mapps> is that it daftykins lol i knew what it meant in that context i thought we were talking linux stuff;p
<mapps> thats why u didnt know what seeding iso mant
<mapps> ah knightwise that sucks i was considering trying it..no point now?
<daftykins> i'd imagine it's fine if you have a spare device you don't care about so much and like fiddling with something that's a WIP
<mapps> yea
<directhex> <directhex> http://www.ebuyer.com/497433-crucial-480gb-m500-2-5-6gbps-ssd-ct480m500ssd1
<directhex> <directhex> Â£160 for real brand 480gb ssd
<diddledan> not bad
<diddledan> comparing to the competition anyway
<diddledan> it sucks that flash is still so damned pricey
<diddledan> I heard an opinion that flash won't ever get cheaper than spinning rust, more that spinning rust will increase in price until it's more expensive than flash (semantics, I know, but the net result is still higher prices overall)
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> that's not a bad price
<daftykins> but i don't think i need one XD
<diddledan> I don't need one, but I want 4
<diddledan> RAID!!
<daftykins> iirc you're yet to go SSD?
<directhex> diddledan, http://hexus.net/business/news/components/67745-ssds-enjoy-strong-growth-2014-thanks-falling-nand-price/
<daftykins> hah that'd only be worthy on a fast hardware controller natively PCI-E
<daftykins> hmm the crucial 480GB is Â£146.66 direct from them anywho
<daftykins> at least, for however long left my retarded excuse for a government takes to introduce GST =|
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> diddledan: g'wan treat yourself! http://www.ebuyer.com/497417-crucial-120gb-m500-ssd-ct120m500ssd1
<daftykins> ;)
<directhex> i have a hell of a migraine, which doesn't help
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> is wee-one to blame?
<directhex> no, had it about 24 hours now
<diddledan> I really need to figure out a way of remembering which device has which ip/hostname
<directhex> working on steamos for you people is *killing me*!
<diddledan> I guess I _could_ get a labelling machine
<daftykins> diddledan: you never took pics for me ;_;
<diddledan> oh yeah, pics
<DJones> Must admit, I don't see the point in SSD's, oooh, look, I've reduced my boot time by 20 seconds.....ok,if 20 seconds is that important to you, what are you doing sat at a computer measuring boot times
<daftykins> DJones: that's simply the most prevalent of comparisons, once you add up all the seconds here and there from application launches, to package installs, to any number of things - the question becomes "why wait?"
<ali1234> it makes everything load faster too
<daftykins> or "what is your time worth?" :)
<directhex> DJones, let's say you're a webkit developer, and you bill your clients a thousand dollars a day. switching to SSD means you save literally days a month on compile times, making yourself a more competitive developer
<directhex> or OOo or any huge code base
<DJones> I always work on the "life's too short to worry" theory (thats as a user though, not a developer), as an accountant, I can see cost savings for them, but for general use, they seem a waste
<daftykins> nah honestly once you've used one, it totally changes the computing experience
<daftykins> especially if you're coming from old generation HDDs
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> wife's laptop with rust in it is painful
<directhex> i only buy ssds for my engineers. we can save the purchase price of an ssd in a single day's build time savings
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> i take it you are not building C++ code then
<directhex> ali1234, why?
<ali1234> because C++ compilation is typically CPU bound
<ali1234> even putting it in a ram disk doesn't speed it up
<diddledan> daftykins: here's my network switchen: https://plus.google.com/photos/+DanielLlewellynJNR/albums/5993328455648567025
<diddledan> cablemess
<diddledan> I really need to organise those cables
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you sir, could do with a large switch for Christmas
<diddledan> oh thanks
<diddledan> that's very kind of you
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> why so many Pi's yet only one in use 0o
<diddledan> I haven't organised myself yet
<diddledan> I've got another one in use elsewhere
<diddledan> I took delivery of a load of ethernet cables for those today
<diddledan> I'm unsure how to power them all though
<diddledan> most multi-way usb thingies only do like 2 - 2.5 amps
<daftykins> desktop PSUs seem to be used by most i've seen doing large Pi setups
<mapps> im kinda with DJones i dont see the need for SSD for most normal users
<daftykins> hrmm if i have a .bin file that's firmware for a router, is there anyway of viewing some header info within it?
<mapps> i was gonna say a hex viewe but maybe not
<directhex> argh. grub-installer failure. :/
<daftykins> :<
<directhex> so much logic in grub-installer is designed to make it ignore your settings & do its own thing
<directhex> like...
<directhex>        if [ "$(device_to_disk "$cdsrc")" = "$default_bootdev" ] || \
<directhex>            ([ -n "$hdsrc" ] && [ "$(device_to_disk "$hdsrc")" = "$default_bootdev" ]) || \
<directhex>            ([ "$default_bootdev" = '(hd0)' ] && \
<directhex>             (([ -n "$cdfs" ] && [ "$cdfs" != "iso9660" ]) || \
<directhex>              [ "$hybrid" = true ])) || \
<directhex>            ([ "$default_bootdev" != '(hd0)' ] && \
<directhex>             ! partmap "$default_bootdev" >/dev/null && \
<lubotu3> directhex: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<directhex>             ! grub_probe -t fs -d "$default_bootdev" >/dev/null); then
<lubotu3> directhex: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<directhex> that's one if statement
<daftykins> :(
<directhex> designed to replace your hard-coded grub-installer/bootdev value with $default_bootdev
<DJones> I;m just wondering which bit of that caused the bot to go ballistic
<DJones> Ah the ! lines
<directhex> apparently bot is summoned by ^\s*! not ^!
<mapps> lol i like the bot responding
<directhex> who wants to help me with seeding Ye Olde SteamOS 5?
<mapps> i can but my bandwidths not great=[
<diddledan> directhex: lemme install a torrent client and I'll be with you
<directhex> bigcalm, ping?
<directhex> basically, if you want to help & can keep the new name a secret, ask daftykins for the torrent URL. need to go buy some dinner right now, will be back in ~30
<mapps> so we're seeding it but want it to be a secret?
<mapps> i can anyway but not sure i follow
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> mapps: there's going to be a big reveal IIRC
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> so we're seeding it to prepare for the big push I believe
<daftykins> feel free to query me if any of you want to seed, i'm 53% into grabbing it from directhex so you'll be able to get ~1.7MB down from us both combined shortly
<daftykins> in fact, in 4 mins
<diddledan> that'ld be a useful feature for commercial use of torrents - being able to preseed a torrent node via a more usual protocol such as http
<daftykins> so, any of you want to join in?
<diddledan> yes please
<daftykins> just this second finished :D excellent timing
<mapps> ya
<mapps> i will
<mapps> what is this ye olde steamOS without sounding like a mug
<daftykins> that was the *old* release of directhex's custom SteamOS respin which supported more things than Valve's official release did
<daftykins> presuming you know of SteamOS already?
<mapps> briefly yea
<mapps> never tried it
<daftykins> nor i
<daftykins> i'm just happy to seed to help out (:
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> diddledan: you have a PM sir
<daftykins> right i also need to nip to the shop
<diddledan> roger that :-)
<daftykins> popey: are you up for seeding sir?
<popey> evening all
<daftykins> heya
<popey> sure
<diddledan> allo popey
<daftykins> hmm only 3Mb from me, some other things are active
<daftykins> ho-hum :)
<daftykins> ok shop \o
<mapps> il start it in a bit here using all my tiny amount of bw atm :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> roger that
<bigcalm> daftykins: ping :)
<mapps> pong
 * bigcalm stops seeding the old torrent at a ratio of 104
<mapps> seeding new one?
<bigcalm> daftykins: want to msg me the torrent url?
<bigcalm> +please
<bigcalm> Oh, mapps. Can you msg me it?
<bigcalm> I'm just about to step out myself. Would be good to get it going
<mapps> ya
<bigcalm> Thanks
<directhex> i'll announce once the video tutorials are done. i have 1 of those left to make
<Myrtti> popey: how was the shinding
<directhex> also, my migraine has grown a sore throat. i'm thinking flu-like symptoms
<Myrtti> did you go?
<diddledan> bigcalm: still need the url?
<diddledan> sekrit
<diddledan> love that spelign
<diddledan>  o_O I'm done already?
<diddledan> I only started like a minute ago
<mapps> i  gave it to him diddledan
<popey> Myrtti: couldn't go
<Myrtti> awwww
<Myrtti> what a shame
<Myrtti> dsample did.
<popey> sophie was in a thing at school
<popey> awww
<Myrtti> was his birthday and all
<Myrtti> aw man
<Myrtti> which reminds me
<Myrtti> I've weighed my bags but forgot to include the frozen rye bread
<mapps> weighed for what
<diddledan> I now have two nice hostnames : macigpixies and naughtyelves - now to think-up three more
<diddledan> (for my pi)
<directhex> angrygnomes
<diddledan> good one
<directhex> curiouselementals
 * diddledan needs to write these down
<directhex> nervoussylphs
<shauno> brian.
<diddledan> lol, musn't forget brian
<shauno> I miss brian.  and fishtank.  they deserve memorials
<Myrtti> mapps: travel
<directhex> what's a good app to record from webcam?
<diddledan> directhex: google hangouts
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> diddledan: vlc?
<popey> sorry directhex ^
<popey> or just a plain gstreamer pipeline :D
<diddledan> there's far too many of us with names beginning with D in here that talk regularly
<directhex> kamoso seems to work
<mapps> UGH
<mapps> RAINING again
<daftykins> bigcalm: sorry got taken away for a bit, are you all set?
<daftykins> ugh i keep using americanisms!
<mapps> ya i gave him the link
<mapps> ;)
<diddledan> ditto
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<daftykins> i see there's a Be user crawling along
<diddledan> very slowly by the looks
<diddledan> perhaps they're still on adsl
<daftykins> D:
 * popey rsyncs it to home for more seeding fun
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I've got it at home and in a datacentre in nottingham(?)
<diddledan> I think it's nottingham, anywho
<daftykins> i hear life isn't to great up there
<diddledan> I'm proud to be a southerner :-p
<daftykins> you're northern to me ;)
<diddledan> in basingsokt?E
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> yes
<diddledan> I see
<diddledan> ignore idiot me
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> boom, home machine online
<popey> who is this slow person I'm sending 6K/s to?
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> I'm doing the same though
<daftykins> high-highs of 12-14 here
<diddledan> wow, just hit 40 here
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> for an instant
<diddledan> 86?
<daftykins> it does seem somewhat odd
<directhex> Windows Movie Maker /o\
<daftykins> XD
<popey> lol
<diddledan> >.<
<shauno> reminds me, seems the ethiopian alphabet has some high potential for emotes ;)  áµ
<daftykins> haha
 * bigcalm returns
<bigcalm> null
<daftykins> XD
<bigcalm> Goodness, getting activity on the torrent
<bigcalm> Was it leaked?
<popey> not much traffic here
<popey> 3.2KB on one, 5.3K on the other
<bigcalm> No traffic here, but a leecher at 24% appears to be connected
<bigcalm> A bethere.co.uk user
<directhex> :D
<popey> and suddenly trafic
<popey> directhex: posted to reddit?
<directhex> popey, yes
<daftykins> D:
<directhex> in a few subrettits - games, linux_gaming, steam, steamos
<bigcalm> Only 1 user her
<bigcalm> e
<bigcalm> Can we talk about the name now then?
<directhex> yes!
<directhex> embargo ended!
<daftykins> it's kettle!
<daftykins> \o/
<bigcalm> It's an odd name
<daftykins> i made it up
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> freddibnah woulda been better :-p
<diddledan> I jest
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> nobody connected to me other than the bethere leacher
<daftykins> my dad used to love watching his progs
<diddledan> so did I
<diddledan> he was awesome
<daftykins> he/she is nearly done finally
<directhex> transmission doesn't do rdns
<popey> 300K/s here
<directhex> the name is inspired
<bigcalm> Why 93?
<directhex> bigcalm, steamos now has an "update level" - when a set of new packages are pushed to the steamos repo, the steamos-updatelevel package is updated with it. so "features X are in updatelevel Y"
<directhex> 93plus1 is the SR based on updatelevel 93
<bigcalm> Ah, okay :)
<bigcalm> Sleep time now
<bigcalm> Toodles
<diddledan> I need 3xSDHC cards
<bigcalm> Hope it's a hit :)
<diddledan> then I can have all 7 RPi's running :-p
<diddledan> one of my Pi's is an onion router node and another is an NTPd running on a GPS-based clock. the other 5 are going to be for funtimes
<diddledan> i.e. I don't know yet
<diddledan> I've got a bulgarian now
<diddledan> 41% done
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-22
<daftykins> ooh i'm pushing max upload
<diddledan> I've got nobody on my home connection and 1user on my server
<daftykins> heh
<directhex> bedtime. i seem to have the flu, recorded that last video full of coughs :(
<directhex> and yes i still have my headache, 24 hours solid now
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> directhex: get well soon o/
<daftykins> ooh a Swede and an IPv6 user now
<diddledan> I've got two users each on home and server - same pair on both
<maps|wrk> hi guys
<diddledan> ello maps|wrk
<directhex> traffic increasing. ganalytics says 18 visitors right now
<directhex> right, bed
<popey> uploading at ~300K/s
<diddledan> ganalytics?
<directhex> https://www.google.com/analytics/
<diddledan> oh google
<diddledan> what's the website? I've not seen that yet
<maps|wrk> il start mine in a bit
<maps|wrk> ;]
<directhex> http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/?r93
<maps|wrk> noone awake now? O_o
<daftykins> sorta
<shauno> I shouldn't be :/
<daftykins> that's a bad shauno!
<shauno> tell me about it.  I've got to be up at 5!
<daftykins> whaaaaaat!
<diddledan> ouch, on a saturday, too
<daftykins> what ever for?
<shauno> the W word
<maps|wrk> ugh
<daftykins> Windsurfing you say
<daftykins> ;D
<shauno> something like that ;)
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> hm might go see new captain america next week
<maps|wrk> so id better watch the 1st one soon:D
<shauno> heh, I wouldn't worry that much.  they don't tend to be *that* plot-heavy
<maps|wrk> O_o
<maps|wrk> may aswell though
<daftykins> that that nancy with the shield?
<maps|wrk> might go to see it at IMAX
<maps|wrk> not sure daftykins  you seen capain america?
<daftykins> think so ja
<shauno> I've got to the point where I give hollywood so little credit, that I'm surprised they didn't try to make a sequel to schindler's list
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/eFELgBt.jpg
<maps|wrk> most films are a bit poor
<maps|wrk> especially comedies
<maps|wrk> the best part of a lot of comedies is shown in the trailer :) so many poor/dissapointing comedies imo
<maps|wrk> you see the internship?
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/JmC9tzS.jpg
<maps|wrk> pretty
<diddledan> http://www.godotengine.org/wp/
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> give unity a run-for-their-money
<maps|wrk> what is it
<diddledan> game engine
<maps|wrk> and what was that picture from daftykins ?
<maps|wrk> for what?
<diddledan> making games with
<diddledan> the studio that created it in-house made this show-reel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=065h_cO5cT4
<daftykins> eh just got lost as i often do for 5 minutes after someone linked to something else on imgur
<maps|wrk> so wha was that picture from ?:)
<daftykins> just someones drawing as far as i can tell
<maps|wrk> ah
<mapps> ah cool directhex its downloaded leaving it seeding now
<ali1234> joomla sucks ... sorry but it does
<ali1234> you can't do anything with one extension... you have to write several to even accomplish a simple task
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<ali1234> how do i use valgrind to find a memory leak when the program frees everything at exit?
<knightwise> morning SuperEngineer ali1234 mapps
<SuperEngineer> morninks knightwise
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> I got a question. I have a lenovo twist running 13.10 ,
<knightwise> works great and all that
<knightwise> I have an external keyboard and mouse connected , but the twist also has a touchscreen.
<knightwise> So when I rotate the touchscreen into portrait mode it works fine with the external keuyboard and mouse
<knightwise> but the orientation of the "touchscreen" stays in portrait mode
<knightwise> sorry , landscape mode
<knightwise> so to summarize : When I rotate my display to portrait mode , my touchscreen remains in landscape mode
<knightwise> anyone know how to fix this ?
<ali1234> unity 7 doesn't have real touchscreen support
<ali1234> nor rotation
<ali1234> i assume you are rotating the display int he graphics driver
<knightwise> i can easily rotate it using xrandr ,
<ali1234> right
<knightwise> and the orientation of my mouse works fine then.
<knightwise> but its just the orientation of the touchscreen that stays in landscape mode
<ali1234> yes because it rotates the whole display, including the mouse cursor
<knightwise> yes
<knightwise> except is does NOT rotate the touchscreen sensor
<ali1234> right, why would it?
<knightwise> because the screen is in portrait mode ?
<ali1234> no, the video output is rotated into portrait mode
<knightwise> aha
<ali1234> nothing else changes
<SuperEngineer> any suitable resolutions [for portrit mode] showing in display properties
<knightwise> so I now need to find a way to rotate the touchscreen into portrait mode
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> think about it:
<knightwise> SuperEngineer: no : when I rotate the screen from the display properties (or with xrander) everything works when I use an external mouse ( mouse input also goes into portrait mode)
<ali1234> if you turn the screen to portrait mode
<knightwise> but the touchscreen stays in landscape mode
<ali1234> and don't actually physically rotate the device
<ali1234> then the mouse cursor will also move incorrectly
<ali1234> this is because you only rotated the output
<knightwise> lets recap :
<knightwise> laptop is in portrait mode.
<ali1234> alternatively, if you put the device into portrait and then also rotate your mouse by 90 degrees, then it will also be wrong
<knightwise> i use an external keyboard and mouse
<knightwise> when I rotate the screen (using the display settings) into portrait mode
<knightwise> 1 orientation of the screen changes (OK)
<knightwise> 2 orientation of my EXTERNAL mouse changes to match the rotation (ALSO O)
<ali1234> no, see, that's where you;re wrong
<ali1234> nothing changes about the external mouse
<knightwise> so how can i make the same thing true for the touch interface
<ali1234> the same thing is already true for the touch interface
<knightwise> my question : how do you change the orientation of the touch interface 90 degrees
<ali1234> you would need to transform the coordinates somehow
<knightwise> if I could get that working I would really be able to use the thing as an actual tablet for reading and stufdf
<ali1234> what type of touch screen is it?
<knightwise>  echo 0 blink > /proc/acpi/ibm/led
<knightwise> sorry , its an ATMEL ATMEL maxtouch digitizer
<ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1972447
<knightwise> Ah :) Gonna give it a try :Ã )
<knightwise> thanx
<knightwise> YES
<knightwise> it worked )
<knightwise> now I just need to find some keybindings to make this work automatically
<knightwise> thanx ali1234
<ahusam> Hi
<shauno> I think I've just pullled off a miracle.  I actually spent less time beating something in the face until it worked in IE, than I spent writing it in the first place \o/
<ali1234> lol. there is a joomla extension that makes joomla extensions
<ali1234> this is the worst thing i've ever seen
<ali1234> i mean without a doubt this is the most convoluted and awful MVC system i've ever encountered
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: look at the database query log too :)
<MartijnVdS> It retrieves *everything* from the database, twice, then sorts/filters on the client side
<ali1234> you feed it 20 lines of SQL and the extension generates the 100kb of boilerplate garbage that is needed to let joomla use it
<ali1234> wait, my bad. it's actually 231kb. zipped.
<ali1234> lol this is awful
<ali1234> it randomly decided to add a drop down filter box on one of the admin views
<ali1234> unfortunately the options in the drop down have nothing at all to do with the field contents
<ali1234> aaaaand it doesn't even work
<ali1234> yeah i don't think we'll be migrating to this
<shauno> silly place to ask a windows question, but on win7 .. how do you disable this thing where it hides all other windows when you mouse-over something on the taskbar?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you don't?
<shauno> :(
<MartijnVdS> maybe by right-clicking the taskbar, then settings/properties/
<MartijnVdS> maybe in the theme (but then you might have to disable all of aero)
<shauno> it's incredibly distracting when you have multiple monitors.  every single time I peek at the second screen to see what just happened, but it's just faded itself to wallpaper so it can show me a window on the first screen
<MartijnVdS> so don't hover your mouse there
<MartijnVdS> it only triggers after a second or two
<shauno> seems turning aero off does the trick
<bashrc> morning
<popey> yo
<MartijnVdS> yo-yo
<ali1234> does anyone actually like joomla?
<ali1234> anyone at all?
<ali1234> even people who like it don't seem to like it very much
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> how would you implement, to assign dns addrs to devices to internal network devices like my rpi, so i dont have to remember ip addrs.
<ali1234> use ahavi
<brobostigon> i already use that on some of those devices.
<popey> cant you just tell your dhcp server to dish out the dns addresses?
<popey> thats what i do
<popey> oh, you mean, have local dns?
<ali1234> i used to hack my router firmware to enable it to server a list of static hostnames
<ali1234> but i got fed up of doing that so i switched to avahi
<popey> yeah, i hard wired IP and host name in my dd-wrt router
<brobostigon> thats another good solution,
<foobarry> what's your router brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> ipv4 is a standard bt router, ipv6 said rpi.
<foobarry> dhcp also serves dns names but unsure if bog standard firmware does it
<foobarry> lol https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PRV2b-Lyf6g/UyxrbamfwVI/AAAAAAAATpQ/LARE_uQyHCw/w360-h221-no/3582_808d.gif
<brobostigon> inside ipv6 that wouldnt be a problem,
<shauno> avahi ftw
<shauno> IE is actually going to make me cry.  I Can easily imagine them giggling while they wrote this 'debugger'
<foobarry> got the heating on :(
<shauno> oooh rich boy eh
<ali1234> i've got the windows open :/
<brobostigon> 7.2c, 14mph sw.
<penguin42> 3c :-(
<foobarry> son is doing the "bbc click dance"
<bashrc> libreplanet begins at about 1.45pm, I think
<bashrc> ooh windows.  I remember that from the olden days
<ali1234> AlanBell: can i hire you port my wordpress plugin to joomla?
<penguin42> directhex: You got a nice link from greg-kh's G+ stream for your rocket
<mapps> afternoon
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> time to kick it old school today and rip some audio CDs!
<daftykins> yes, i remember them!
<daftykins> thankfully i still have a working optical drive within my server
<mapps> hm
<mapps> daftykins know much bash?
<mapps> its prob obvious but cant see why something isnt working
<daftykins> 'fraid not
<mapps> ack
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> pastebin 'er up though, i don't mind taking a glance
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7136159/
<mapps> the 2nd exec line
<mapps>  $BASEDIR/sc_serv $BASEDIR/sc_serv_basic.conf &
<mapps> 		$BASEDIR/sc_trans $BASEDIR/sc_trans_basic.conf &
<mapps> need both to be run so shoutcast will stream automatically - but first command runs and 2nd doesnt
<mapps> tried using && so 2nd command runs if first was successful but the problem is sc_serv writes to stdout and just sits there with && and even with & making it go into the bg the 2nd wasnt run
<daftykins> does one or the other have a switch to execute in daemon mode and not continue outputting?
<mapps> let me check a sec i dont recall seeing it though
<mapps> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16677906/shoutcast-daemon-script-not-functioning-properly what if i did what theyve done there redrect output
<mapps> ah ok found something daftykins if i set RealTime 0 and screenlog0 in the conf it doesnt output
<mapps> and then when i run the cmd with & it dissapears so now both cmds should work?
<daftykins> *shrug* :)
<daftykins> proof's in the testing!
<mapps> hoorah
<mapps> works
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hm 2 people dl that directhex iso
<mapps> one from Trinidad and Tobago
<MartijnVdS> mapps: so.. it's 2 people, one from Trinidad, one from Tobago? :P
<mapps> hah
<mapps> one from t&t and one from USA
<daftykins> mapps: heh i was watching the stats of it fir a little while when i got up
<daftykins> couple of germans, an aussie, a chinese user
<mapps> has it been given out then/
<mapps> I THOUGHT IT WAS SUPER SECRET
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> well the plan was to get a good seeding base setup prior to him launching, so that peeps could grab it quick
<daftykins> he released last night a bit later on i believe
<daftykins> a good 32 seeds now so it says on mine \o/
<daftykins> 6.713 ratio on mine :>
<mapps> aha ok
<mapps> hm
<mapps> i only see one person when i click peers on mine
<mapps> annoying about less than a mile from me where i used to live now has FTC
<mapps> but STILL NOT HERE FOR ME
<mapps> im a diff exchange;/
<daftykins> yeah you only see # of users actively connected getting something from you
<mapps> aha
<daftykins> hrmm AccurateRip is being rude to me
<mapps> what about eac
<daftykins> it's a plugin for EAC yeah
<mapps> ahh
<mapps> ok didnt know
<mapps> i was ust saying use eac;p
<mapps> but guess you are=]
<daftykins> but it's refusing to show itself :D
<mapps> so whats this plugin do
<daftykins> *nod* - doing super high accuracy rips for a... specific purpose shall we say
<daftykins> basically it goes off online and compares records with rips done by others
<mapps> ah i see
<mapps> compares how like quality its ripped at?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> against sorta known reference values
<daftykins> it's not hugely relevant if you're just ripping for yourself, i followed a guide to set it to super accurate mode
<daftykins> it's just a needed thing for what i'm up to
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> ugh that album took 26 mins
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> its hailing outside
<daftykins> ugh yeah that was an 85% result
<daftykins> i need 100! :)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> what quality you rippng at
<daftykins> FLAC
<daftykins> but then i'll also do MP3 V0, V2 and 320Kbps CBR
<mapps> ugh work in a bit wonder how annoyed i can get today
<mapps> service desk and testing annoying me so much emails from those departments where people use terms that dont exist
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> what like?
<mapps> i cant think of any off hand but trust me theres loads
<mapps> ive got a lot of auto delete rules on my inbox at work
<mapps> sick and tired of useless emails
<daftykins> yay insert a more well known CD and accuraterip is a go \o/
<mapps> a prime example..if you have a car you have to register your details..well even though thats the case IF someones blocked someone in etc
<mapps> they EMAIL EVERYONE
<daftykins> :/
<mapps> like uhh i dont even have a car..and even if i did..why not just email one person
<daftykins> sounds like a left-hand right-hand situation ;)
<daftykins> as in the two not talking
<mapps> someone at work convinced work that the ipad loads websites faster
<daftykins> lmao
<mapps> and they bought one for him to use
<mapps> baffling
<daftykins> ofgs
<daftykins> amateurs
<mapps> but 100% serious
<mapps> its a betting company..so its expected but theres so many people that claim to know everythng
<mapps> he trades formula1 and claims its faster than anything else on the ipad
<mapps> didnt give any reasons
<mapps> just faster..ok?
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> i guess a given app could be faster on a given tablet
<daftykins> if it's just written better
<daftykins> but if it's just web browser usage... hmm
<mapps> versus a super fast pc using livescore web
<mapps> but there was no reason just 'its faster'
<mapps> maybe it was faster ONCE
<mapps> doesn't mean every single time...who knows maybe the ipad/mobile site uses a diff server ad it wasnt very busy at that time?
<mapps> I just dont say anything..I laugh to myself but thats about it
<daftykins> yeah, best way sometimes :>
<daftykins> especially when there's the smell of bovine waste about
<daftykins> a client needed his whole music collection ripped once so we went to my old College to hire a kid
<daftykins> whenever i see him now, he just totally lies non-stop in conversation
<daftykins> i don't understand the child at all
<daftykins> he'd lie about trivial things like how reliable the uptime of his home broadband service was
<mapps> why
<daftykins> 'yeah it only ever goes down when there's maintenance, it's great'
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> but there's no published maintenance page...
<daftykins> strange boy indeed.
<foobarry> liars be liars
<foobarry> although i don't understand the need to compulsively lie about things that dont even matter
<daftykins> exactly
<shauno> a lot of the time, they're mostly doing it to lie to themselves.  eg, I'll tell you my connection is awesome - because I feel guilty about what I pay for it, and want to believe it myself
<daftykins> like, i can totally attest to not necessarily asking questions if i didn't fully understand something someone said when i was younger - but you grow out of it
<maps|wrk> hai
<daftykins> wb
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> busy busy busy worker bee
<maps|wrk> thats what i am
<daftykins> so what TV are you watching? ;)
<maps|wrk> baseball
<maps|wrk> my first game is det @ tor pre season baseball.
<maps|wrk> that ive gots to 'trade' aka set the odds live during the game
<maps|wrk> but unfortunately im sitting opposite someone who's above me..so have to be careful how much im typing/not doing work struff :(
<daftykins> do you have to fully understand the rules of the games you work with?
<maps|wrk> it helps
<maps|wrk> but not if you use the multi tools -where basically it uses a feed from a scout
<maps|wrk> like say you can do 6 soccer games at once using a feed
<maps|wrk> but for single stuff where youre doing 1 game at a time ya
<maps|wrk> so if u watch det @ tor on bet365.com thats what im doing;p
<maps|wrk> lol
<daftykins> ^_^
<maps|wrk> whats wrong with women who are 40+ not realising fake tan/fake hair etc is embarassing
<maps|wrk> looking like a tart at that age
<maps|wrk> :(
<daftykins> struggling to let go i guess
<maps|wrk> 'more clearer' is it me or does that just sound wrong?
<daftykins> yeah it's redundant
<daftykins> well, just not right
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> it just sounded funny to me
<daftykins> i keep seeing in articles lately - "pre-planning"
<daftykins> =/
<maps|wrk> pre planning lol
<daftykins> i hereby plan to plan this :>
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> i plan to plan to plan
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> i was wondering the other day how much is it costing me to run my 3 machines 24/7 my laptop / netbook for irc and my ubuntu machine
<ali1234> probably about Â£1 per day
<maps|wrk> you reckon?
<maps|wrk> for all 3?
<ali1234> sure
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> my bill was like 340 for a quarter gas and electric and i live on my own and try not to have the heating on much
<ali1234> do you have a freezer?
<maps|wrk> ah yea
<maps|wrk> fridge freezer running 24/7
<maps|wrk> good point never considered that
<ali1234> that's probably like half your bill
<maps|wrk> so i dont need to worry about having them all on really
<ali1234> well, 1/4
<maps|wrk> my ubuntu machine's like 9years old..i bought it in my 2nd year of uni , dell dimension desktop
<maps|wrk> and it still runs xubuntu well enough imo
<maps|wrk> no need to retire it:)
<maps|wrk> apache httpd/openvpn/shoutcast/mariadb/
<daftykins> when i upgraded my server's storage i went on quite a power consumption kick
<daftykins> upgrading from 8 x 250GB HDDs to 6 x 1TB meant i increased storage *and* cut power a fair bit :)
<daftykins> my server uses ~100W idle
<maps|wrk> what did you do with the old disks
<maps|wrk> thats why i hate upgrading ..i dont wanna get rid of anything :D
<daftykins> gave them to a friend along with my older RAID controller card they went with, but apparently they slowly cascaded to death
<maps|wrk> ah
<ali1234> i want to buy 4 x 4TB disks
<maps|wrk> what ram/cpu is yours
<daftykins> pretty basic Pentium dual core 2GHz with 4GB
<maps|wrk> mines a core 2 duo 2gb ram i think
<maps|wrk> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz
<maps|wrk> hm how can i check memory meminfo from proc i guess?
<daftykins> indeed
<maps|wrk> kB thats kilobytes not bits ye?
<maps|wrk> must be
<maps|wrk> well my machine has even less ram than i thought lol
<maps|wrk> mark@frogs:/proc$ cat meminfo                                                                                               MemTotal:        1016548 kB
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> around 1GB then
<maps|wrk> ja
<daftykins> onboard graphics stealing 8MB by the looks
<maps|wrk> had the machine since mmh i guess 2005
<daftykins> or 32 0o
<maps|wrk> considering its now 9years old its quite cool that Xubuntu runs well on it eh?
<daftykins> well it is specifically meant to be lightweight
<maps|wrk> I mean you could use it for browsing/watchng videos (vlc) everything, obviously games wouldnt be great and i mean sure heavy compiling would take a while and it couldnt handle as many threads for apache/mysql probably and itd slow down
<maps|wrk> but its kinda neat being able to run a vpn server/httpd/smtp/ all on that old box :) and this irc client is running off it
<daftykins> you must be dipping into swap on that thing?
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> well
<daftykins> 'free -m' ?
<maps|wrk> how would i check? also remember , my vpn gets like no use - only i use it and not often, just for testing mainly
<maps|wrk> and my apache webserver..well nothing on there and im the only visitor..I us it for this irc client :P and also shellinabox which is running on it
<maps|wrk> mainly setup all these things as testing and learning :D
<maps|wrk> fmark@frogs:~$ free -m                                                                                                                   total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached                                                   Mem:           992        871        121          0          8        439                                                   -/+ buffers/cache:        423        569
<daftykins> ah, no swap
<maps|wrk> teehee
<maps|wrk> whats running on your server
<daftykins> well it's a Windows host with two VMs of ubuntu server atop it
<daftykins> one i'm typing from now is irssi dedicated, the other is a web server
<maps|wrk> bucketing down again here
<maps|wrk> ;(
<daftykins> it's fine if you've got nowhere to go :D
<maps|wrk> ja
<maps|wrk> and i dont for like 9hours
<maps|wrk> yess got the booth to myself
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  you know of any good ebooks or sites for learning the linux command line.,.likw i know basics but not enough and certainly not enough about options with commands..and dont say rtfm or man:P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> no ideas i'm afraid
<maps|wrk> oke:D
<daftykins> i'd only be googling for a newbie manual
<maps|wrk> yea
<DJones> !terminal | maps|wrk The intial link is very basic, but looks like quite a few links at the bottom that may be useful,
<lubotu3> maps|wrk The intial link is very basic, but looks like quite a few links at the bottom that may be useful,: The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<maps|wrk> thanks
<DJones> http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz Looks pretty detailed
<maps|wrk> sweet ta
 * penguin42 wonders whether there will be 2038bug parties
<maps|wrk> anyone use webmin? just been reading about it is all
<MartijnVdS> webmin is BAD
<maps|wrk> insecure?
<DJones> Not supported in Ubuntu, appears to have a habit of breaking things
<DJones> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<maps|wrk> ahh ok i thought it would be security reaosns:)
<maps|wrk> reasons
<DJones> I think the suggested alternative now is Zentyl
<DJones> !ebox
<lubotu3> zentyal is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Zentyal (Project formally known as eBox - including in Lucid/10.04).
<maps|wrk> right time for me to move desks
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> back
<maps|wrk> quiet ere again
<daftykins> for some reason it feels like Sunday
<maps|wrk> sundays are always a slow quiet day eh
<maps|wrk> what you doing? im reading up on the command line still
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> did food at the top of the hour, sat in the lounge considering whether to watch something on the TV now
<maps|wrk> hmm prob nothing good on
<daftykins> well i've got my HTPC fired up so what's on is what i make it :D
<maps|wrk> ahh
<maps|wrk> thought you meant tv tv
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> nah i don't even have a broadcast service hooked up
<daftykins> i was using my TV's smart capabilities to watch some news progs on the iPlayer though
<maps|wrk> watch that show about deathrow
<maps|wrk> that was quite interesting
<daftykins> hmm didn't see anything about that
<maps|wrk> if you wish or need to ever flip text upside down [vertical flip] "uÊop ÇpÄ±sdn ÊxÇÊ dÄ±ÊÉ" or/and create reverse text here is a terminal way to achieve this
<maps|wrk> LOL
<maps|wrk> yo daftykins  - it's here
<maps|wrk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ytvjz/Life_and_Death_Row_Execution/
<daftykins> ah man upside down text is a thing i need on a daily basis! ;)
<daftykins> oooh now i see the pic i did see that listed under Factual
<penguin42> daftykins: Éo É¥ÉnÉ¯ ooÊ ÇÊÉÉ¥ uÉÉ noÊ buÄ±É¥ÊÇÉ¯os s,ÊÄ± ÊuÄ±É¥Ê Ä±
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> its a decent watch imo daftykins
<daftykins> penguin42: ah, like all good things in life
<daftykins> ooh just broke 9 seeded on stephenson's rocket
<maps|wrk> =]
<diddledan> I'm on 5.73 and 7.17
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/gallery/I02PB
<daftykins> i was looking at this last night
<daftykins> can barely notice a difference 0o
<maps|wrk> thats pretty cool
<maps|wrk> will have a proper look in a bit
<maps|wrk> :)
<daftykins> might get the film it references
<maps|wrk> so what did you decide to watch daftykins
<daftykins> i've got a bit of an anime on right now
<daftykins> a Ghost in the Shell film
<maps|wrk> ah
<daftykins> undecided if i'll stick at it though
<ali1234> hmm.... bootstrap is really good
<ali1234> this might save me from the horrors of joomla
<maps|wrk> yo
<daftykins> wb
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> ever used http://www.centerim.org/index.php/Main_Page ?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-23
<daftykins> no sir
<maps|wrk> onfigure: error: Package requirements (purple >= 2.7.0) were not met:
<maps|wrk> :(
<daftykins> ah ye olde libpurple
<maps|wrk> fixed
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> regex always confuses me
<daftykins> i'm off, nn \o
<daftykins> lol at my early night plan
<daftykins> 2am wtf
<maps|wrk> NIGHT NIGHT
<maps|wrk> :)
<mapps> hm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> what is going on with the text baseline here? http://imagebin.org/301110
<ali1234> from http://dev.drumoff.tv/wp-content/themes/drumoff-theme/test/test.php#
<mapps> morning all
<brobostigon> morning mapps
 * penguin42 appreciates Exaile picking 'Easy' as his first song of the day
<mapps> http://www.centerim.org/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
<mapps> that load for anyone?
<philwyett> Loads fine.
<penguin42> yeh fine here
<mapps> thank
<jpds> Program looks so 80s.
<jpds> http://www.centerim.org/index.php/File:Centerim-screenshot.png
<mapps> yea
<mapps> its ghetto
<mapps> :D
<mapps> heh
<mapps> but i wanted a command line gtalk client
<jpds> mapps: http://www.bitlbee.org/
<mapps> i shall have a look..thanks:D
<mapps> watching arrow atm :D
<ujjain> Where does one in the UK buy HDMI-DVI adaptors, USB-to-power plugs etc?
<popey> ujjain: amazon?
<ujjain> probably the internet right?
<ujjain> It's just that I don't have an address, but I guess I can use the office address
<ali1234> pound shop
<ali1234> if you're feeling lucky
<mapps> you dont have an address
<ujjain> I don't want to be pounded
<ujjain> ah right, I already checked the Â£1 shop
<ujjain> I will use Amazon I guess.
<penguin42> ujjain: Amazon also do deliver to locker stuff
<mapps> locker stuff?!
<mapps> i know that with amazon you can also have it delivered to certain shops and pick it up from theses shops if theyre local to u
<mapps> underground stations were also going to start offering amazon collection
<penguin42> mappSome of them are lockers that you open using a code sent to you
<DJones> One of our local co-op stores has lockers for amazon deliveries, not sure how they work, but presumably as penguin42 said, they deliver to the store & you get a code to open the locker
<mapp> oh i didnt know..cool
<knightwise> Afternoon peeps
<popey> Afternoon slackers!
<brobostigon> afternoodlings popey
<penguin42> hey Popey
<mapp> afternoon popey
<mapp> oh wow
<mapp> spurs won? i thought it was gsm
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYSy8xferSk
<mapps> best song ever
<maps|wrk> yello
<diddledan> mornin
<maps|wrk> upto anything on this fine sunday?
<diddledan> nope
<maps|wrk> :)
<diddledan> been reading about how freebsd implements linux-flavoured jails though, interesting concept
<diddledan> they implement a subset of kernel syscalls with a small shim which translates the linux-world call into a bsd-equivalent call thereby not requiring anything from the gpl kernel
<diddledan> apparently the two kernels are different enough that you can't just pass directly but must perform a small translation because linux uses stack-based syscalls whereas bsd does syscalls some other way; means the stack needs to be manipulated and the variables included there converted to bsd equivalents before forwarding the syscall
<maps|wrk> sounds complicated:D
<diddledan> maybe I got that bacasswards - one of them uses a stack and the other doesn't, but I can't remember which way about it is
<diddledan> back*
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan> the gory details are here: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/linux-emulation/article.html
<diddledan> aha, linux uses processor registers to pass the syscall parameters whereas bsd uses the stack
<maps|wrk> will read in a bit
<maps|wrk> good day today for me./.got a decent payrise at work:D
<maps|wrk> way better than what i expected
<diddledan> so there's a limit to the size of parameters in linuxland
<diddledan> nice, welldone
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> wonder what the avg payrise in % will be for this financial yr
<maps|wrk> so my student loan payments will increase and my pension contribution O_O
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> automatically?
<diddledan> student loans are evil
<diddledan> :-p
<maps|wrk> yea i think it is isnt it
<maps|wrk> my pay goes up so surely stuident loan does
<daftykins> we don't have them over here
<maps|wrk> u went to uni tho didnt u?
<daftykins> yeah, but the local gov contributes to the tuition fees a bit
<daftykins> the rest is means-tested to see if your parents should pay :D
<maps|wrk> ahhh
<maps|wrk> god damn
<maps|wrk> 900 quid for the hotel i stayed in last year
<maps|wrk> im sure we paid like 450
<maps|wrk> putting the prices up because of the months pah
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> for glastonbury?
<maps|wrk> na
<maps|wrk> for Czech republic
<maps|wrk> i cant remember if i went in May/June last year though
<maps|wrk> was looking at going in May for a week
<daftykins> ah what's going on there?
<maps|wrk> just going back there with a mate , had a good time last year
<maps|wrk> so0 figured why not go back
<maps|wrk> nice girls, the weather was decent etc
<maps|wrk> and probably going to meet my mate that lives over there too, thgats why we went last yr
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> cool
<maps|wrk> hmm i remember seeing some kind of like multi plug phone charger thing with attachments for all phones but cant remember the name any idea daftykins ?
<daftykins> naw not sure i'm afraid
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: http://dx.com/p/universal-6-in-1-usb-charging-cable-black-23cm-293193 is that what you're looking for?
<maps|wrk> na it was some slick looking key device where they popped out
<maps|wrk> wish i could remember where i saw it
<Azelphur> was it mentioned in here?
<maps|wrk> nop, read it somewhere , just wondered if it rang a bell wih anyone
<Azelphur> ah ok
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-16
<shauno> fun question.  anyone know how to force alsa cards to appear in a certain order?
<shauno> (eg, one card is #0, the other is #1, I want to swap the two)
<ali1234> probably with udev rules?
<directhex> yeah, sounds tricksy
<shauno> I'm not actually sure if udev is handling these (since I had to load the modules myself)
<shauno> hm, not exactly what I was looking for but seems to be easier - use /etc/asound.conf to set the default device to #1
<shauno> well that works nicely :)  retroarch using hdmi for audio, mpd using the 'hifiberry'
<mapp> yo
<diddledan> ello
<mapp> hey pew got cutoff
<mapp> stupid dsl went down
<diddledan_> doobleydo
<mapp> did you watch csi cyber
<mapp> ah hes gone
<mapp> unstable connection right there
<diddledan> hmm
<mapp> ah back
<mapp> did you watch csi cyber ep2 diddledan
<mapp> don think you were here when i askes earlier
<mapp> i didnt care for it again:)
<diddledan> smuxi doesn't like mono on the server with ms.net connecting to it
<mapp> i think it'll get canned
<diddledan> mapp: yeah I saw it, wasn't overly impressed
<mapp> off to sleep - gotta be up early
<mapp> cya :)
<diddledan> tata
<mapp> damnit
<mapp> cant sleep
<mapp> ARGH
<diddledan> there's a new top-level domain due to start accepting registratinos at the end of the month - the .sucks tld
<mapp> lol
<mapp> still struggling to sleep
<mapp> ever used sleep tapes diddledan?
<diddledan> nope
<mapp> just cant sleep..wondering if i should turn my tv eps off (playing on laptop) and tr the sounds on dreamingwithjeff.com
<diddledan> dum diddy dum dum
<mapp> perfect
<mapp> anther hour past no closer to sleeping
<mapp> this sucks
<zmoylan-pi> you are getting sleepy...
<diddledan> I am?
<diddledan> hmm...
<diddledan> *thud*
<zmoylan-pi> ignore that diddledan that was for mapp
<diddledan> zzzzz
<zmoylan-pi> oops, too late
 * zmoylan-pi doesn't waste opportunity and yoinks diddledan's wallet and has a shufty
<diddledan> *bats*
<diddledan> my driver's license still has a picture of me at 17
<diddledan> I've changed a wee bit since then
<zmoylan-pi> the peg leg and eye patch add character
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and allow you to officiate at fsm weddings
<diddledan> fsm?
<zmoylan-pi> flying spaghetti monster
<diddledan> aah
<zmoylan-pi> bless his noodly apendages
<diddledan> pastafarian woulda worked better methinks :-p
<diddledan> fsm sounds like some sort of adult playtime
<diddledan> fsm - full surround mono - the audiophile's dream rig?
<diddledan> finitely splendiferous meanderings?
<diddledan> football's stupidest mascot?
<diddledan> french seduction machine?
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapp> when do you sleep diddledan and you zmoylan-pi:P gonna get some nytol later for sur
<zmoylan-pi> i have insomnia, i sleep 4 hours a day at the moment at fairly random times :-/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<davmor2> czajkowski: awwwwwwwww don't you two just make people want to vomit with cuteness ;)  == very nice engagement snaps :)
<czajkowski> heh thanks can only thank Tony for the images he makes us all look good!
<foobarry> does irssi have a save command that saves all your connections and passwords into a config file?
<diddledan> foobarry: /save ?
<bashrc> you mean /save ?
<foobarry> i never knew!
<foobarry> thanks guys
<diddledan> don't you love vulnerability disclosure timelines that basically say "f*** the vendor!"? latest for .net framework: made avilable publicly on 11/03/15. emailed microsoft on 12/03/15
<diddledan> dammit, chrisccoulson just died again
<diddledan> he's making a habit of mortal shenanigans
<diddledan> 09:38 -!- chrisccoulson_ [~chr1s@ubuntu/member/chrisccoulson] has quit [Quit: OSError: [Errno 130] Owner died]
<TwistedLucidity> And he is risen!
<directhex> diddledan: funnily enough, my experience making vuln disclosures is "nobody cares"
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: All hail our zombie chrisccoulson overlord!
 * diddledan looks suspiciously at chrisccoulson 
<diddledan> I'm not sure he's entirely alive
<foobarry> anyone got a stick?
<bashrc> if you disclose it to microsoft they will only disclose it to nsa and then maybe some months later think about fixing it
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: There's a scary side-effect of the Five-Eyes Spy-ring; all vulns decalred public *first* to reduce state abuse.
<bashrc> yes indeed
<chrisccoulson> What have I done?
<diddledan> chrisccoulson: you died
<diddledan> 09:38 -!- chrisccoulson_ [~chr1s@ubuntu/member/chrisccoulson] has quit [Quit: OSError: [Errno 130] Owner died]
<directhex> chrisccoulson: eaten brains.
<chrisccoulson> hah
<diddledan> and now you're a zombie
<foobarry> typical
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMiDZIY1bM
<zmoylan-pi> what if it's the brains of a ukip supporter, does that count as brains? :-P
<foobarry> somebody told me there's  ageneral election soon
<foobarry> when was the last one? 4yrs already?
 * zmoylan-pi demands an admiral election for parity
<zmoylan-pi> more appropriate when it rains
<NET||abuse> hi internet.. glorious monday isn't it.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Freedom of Information Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i can't tell you how it's going :-)
 * popey hides his information from JamesTait 
<NET||abuse> so i've installed Mate on my 14.10 laptop alongside normal unity, plus compiz, cuz i'm a child.... and now i get odd gtk style notification popoups in the top left corner instead of unity notifications... anyone know how i can get that fixed?
<NET||abuse> back under unity i get the gtk popups that is.. sorry if that wasn't explicitly clear
 * JamesTait just stalks popey on G+ instead.
<foobarry> and looks on his webcam
 * foobarry does a CSI on the reflection in the glass of the shed window
<NET||abuse> haha, i've been thinking for the sake of hilarity to watch the csi cyber episodes that are out
<zmoylan-pi> do they write an app in visual basic to scan all the the ips??
<zertyui> hi there
<zertyui> basic question
<zertyui> i would like to show only the domain name from this output
<zertyui> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10608949/
<zertyui> when i do mailq i got this output
<zertyui> anyone there ?
 * zmoylan-pi knocks once for yes
 * popey knocks twice for no
<TwistedLucidity> Ouch. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/16/auth_bypass/
<moreati> zertyui: which domain(s)? business.telecomitalia.it? dffee.com?mail.rdsnet.ro.?
<intrbiz> zertyui: you could use sed or awk to do that
<intrbiz> zertyui: or would be easy enough in perl
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: mailq | perl -e 'while (<>) { my ($d) = $_ =~ /<[^@]+@([^>]+)>/ ; print $d . "\n" if $d; }'
<davmor2> JamesTait: here is some free information â I mean that's it all the information you're getting :P
<intrbiz> oops tab complete **up
<intrbiz> zertyui: mailq | perl -e 'while (<>) { my ($d) = $_ =~ /<[^@]+@([^>]+)>/ ; print $d . "\n" if $d; }'
<zertyui> perfect it 's working
<zertyui> now i woudl like the output of the command to be insert to access file /etc/access
<intrbiz> zertyui: what are you trying to do?
<zertyui> trying to REJECT
<zertyui> something like : youwontbelieveitsreal.in.net    REJECT
<zertyui> output of that command to insert on file /etc/access with adding the flag REJECT
<moreati> zertyui: at a guess mailq | perl -e 'while (<>) { my ($d) = $_ =~ /<[^@]+@([^>]+)>/ ; print $d . " REJECT\n" if $d; }'
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: is badminton on tonight, if so, what time?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: hmm, good question
<bigcalm> Oh dear :D
<intrbiz> zertyui: have you looked at fail2ban?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I'll find out
<bigcalm> Thanks man :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll notice though that intrbiz didn't say he'd tell you about it just that would find out ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: strangely I trust him to be sensible in this situation
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<foobarry> ARM.L shares doing well atm
<foobarry> all time high i think
<intrbiz> bigcalm: badminton is on tonight - 20:00 to 22:00
<bigcalm> intrbiz: grand, thanks for checking
<diddledan> fun thread here: https://virginmedia.response.lithium.com/portal/conversation/3656208 <-- therealrevk is the owner of Andrews&Arnold (aaisp.net)
<diddledan> it's still going back and forth between them as we speak
<diplo> Sky don't replace your Sky box or router after a year
<diplo> I get what VM are saying, you don't equipment so they replace it if it becomes faulty..
<diddledan> brb, reboob
<DJones> diplo: Sky do replace faulty routers though
<diplo> Not after a year, I was told I had to pay for it
<diplo> And I wasn't allowed to use my own, so of course I used my own :)
<DJones> I've never had to pay, Iwas charged a few Â£'s for postage, but that was all
<diplo> Wanted Â£60 from me
<diplo> For a god awful router
<DJones> The original router was pretty weak, the last 2 I've had have been good, very strong signal & connection is stable
<foobarry> g+ is quite broken for me today
<diplo> Not overly configurable was my main gripe, just wanted to lock/open a few things
<diplo> In what way foobarry, seems fine for me all day
<foobarry> doesn't load
<diplo> Very close to moving to cable to be honest now DJones
<diplo> Oh right, mines been open all day and just click on new posts, not refreshed or anything since first thing :)
<foobarry> photos.google.com aint loading atm
<DJones> diplo: I don't have the option of cable, Sky have been by far the best ISP I've had in 12 years, fair enough a lot of people don't like them or have issues, but I've not had any complaints
<awilkins> VM visited me and replaced my SuperHub for a SuperHub 2 just because "it's a bit old" (ok, the engineer gave the impression that he was being a bit hooky, but that might just be cynical manipulation of their customers a different way)
<awilkins> And I've been a loyal customer for over a decade
<awilkins> And had the internet service ever since it was a different company offering it
<DJones> Just thinking, the sky dish had been on our house since before we moved in, when we had some changes done, they replaced the dish because it was getting old
<foobarry> diplo: paused adblock..loads now
<diplo> I was with VM from when they first started as Blueyonder, I left because I had a good deal with Sky, but it sucks now
<diplo> too pricey and speeds suck
<diplo> I'll probably still be with them for another 4 years knowing me though :D
<diplo> I do miss having a good upload speed though!
<awilkins> 6M upload!
<awilkins> Whee
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31907768
<mapp> nice
<davmor2> awilkins: you don't want to whee on internet cable that wont help upload or download speeds ;)
<diddledan> davmor2: WHEEE
<Laney> widdledan
 * diddledan widdles
<awilkins> Ultimate WEEEE : https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/wiki/Firewalls-and-Port-Forwards
<awilkins> oops
<awilkins> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/weeee
<awilkins> (mildly NSFW)
<awilkins> (and noisy)
<diddledan> double yoo tee eff
<awilkins> A classic of the early days of t'internet
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I miss those flashymations
<diddledan> the 90s was awesome
<diplo> awilkins, Go away!
<diddledan> :-o
<diplo> Ref 6m Upload!
<diplo> awilkins, is the uPNP bit new ?
<awilkins> diplo, Dunno, not been using it for that long
<awilkins> Or in anger
<awilkins> Trying to get it promoted as a thing for our company to save money (rather than use a commercial file sharer)
<diplo> I've debated the same thing, about to implement it at our Nottingham office to this machine :)
<diplo> I'm debating writing a gui for it for UT as a project, may be a bit beyond me but I'll give it a go :)
<awilkins> Can't be that bad
<foobarry> unreal tournament?
<diplo> Ubuntu Touch
<awilkins> Nick the sources for the Windows version of the Ubuntu One thing
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> Ok, not the Ubuntu One thing
<awilkins> There's an Android client
<awilkins> A bit all or nothing though
<diplo> Yeah I use that already, going to look at the code once this machine is reinstalled
<diplo> popey has run the binary on his Nexus I believe
<diplo> So 'it works' sorta :)
<awilkins> Would prefer something like the Dropbox android client that syncs manifests and lets you choose which files you actually want
<popey> hmm?
<awilkins> The base install is very portable
<diplo> That's what a lot of people are asking for as an improvement
<diplo> syncthing popey ? I read on the forums I think ?
<popey> ya
<popey> not recently
<bashrc> o w n c l o u d
<diplo> heh, well I wanted to write something and this is a good project as any, also going to try something to work with owncloud too
<diddledan> ignore that it's a microsoft twit: https://twitter.com/TechNetUK/status/577507119504728064/photo/1
<Azelphur> somebody is talking about ownCloud?
 * Azelphur arrives
<Azelphur> also does anyone know a good, somewhat cheap projector? :P
<diplo> Never use projectors anymore, and the ones I bought were never cheap :/
<Azelphur> diplo: are they really that bad?
<bashrc> I've got one. It was cheap and the resolution is low, but it's ok for youtube
<Azelphur> I wanted to put Kodi (XBMC) on it
<diplo> Defo want a decent one for that
<diplo> Cheap is just pointless for films imo
<Azelphur> I see
<diplo> I know a few people who run projectors for their media centres, they spend Â£600+ on theirs
<Azelphur> ouch
<diplo> Right, got to go.. kids swimming lessons :(
<nickerSLAVEgg> hi, anyone online who can halp me pls?
<nickerSLAVEgg> pls i wnat to ask a serious question for a uk worker pls
<nickerSLAVEgg> i wnat to give in my resignation tomorrow so somebody may help
<Azelphur> nickerSLAVEgg: doesn't sound like a Ubuntu question, a better place to go to ask generic UK questions might be http://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK
<nickerSLAVEgg> thanks Azelphur, I wonder if they have an irc channel.... I need a response now unfortunately
<Azelphur> nickerSLAVEgg: /r/unitedkingdom has one at irc.snoonet.org #uk
<Azelphur> I can't be of any use since I've never resigned from a job before (nor do I know the procedures)
<daftykins> advising reddit, nasty!
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> Azelphur: you give the boss the finger then walk out in a huff
<Azelphur> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-17
<daftykins> http://twitch.tv/daftpunkle
<daftykins> Ori and the Blind Forest
<nickerSLAVEgg> #uk unable to join channel (invite only)
<nickerSLAVEgg> did farage won the elections already?
<daftykins> politics doesn't belong online
<mapp> yo
<zmoylan-pi> allo allo
<mapp> :)
<mapp> the following time for me:D
<mapp> watching anything?
<zmoylan-pi> listening to podcasts
<mapp> ah
<mapp> i always find it hard to keep up with podcasts
<mapp> do you have your laptop/phone/tablet - assuming you have a tablet all synchronised
<zmoylan-pi> then star trek 6, the undiscovered country.  shakespeare is better in the original klingon...
<mapp> you listen to any tech podcasts?
<mapp> apart from ubuntu podcast assuming you listen to it
<zmoylan-pi> i have a cheap asus 7" tablet and use podkicker to download and listen to podcasts.  linux voice, raspberry pi today, tech news today, technews tonight, dick turpin road show, this week in tech, ubuntu podcast
<mapp> thats better
<mapp> my net had gone super slow
<knightwise> morning everyone !
<mapp> sleepy time for me
<mapp> ;D
<czajkowski> aloha
<directhex> howdy
<TwistedLucidity> Ah-hoy-hoy
<bashrc_> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Submarine Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> the modern version of which was invented by an irish man.  paddies day \o/
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's not as much fun if you go for the ones *everyone* celebrates. ;)
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if it's banned anywhere important...
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Well, it was celebrated in Dubai.
<TwistedLucidity> Mostly by expats, but not exclusively
<davmor2> JamesTait: man now I want to take a trip to subway
<foobarry> paddys day at uni was hilarious
<foobarry> loads of people getting wasted and claiming some irish heritage
<foobarry> by hilarious i mean lame
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, good money to be made on tourists...
<TwistedLucidity> No need for heritage - just have a few and then fall over. Everyone is the same when horizontal and incoherent.
<foobarry> :-| was my wifes face last night when i came home with a few hundred magazines
<foobarry> they are already regulated to under the sofa where the mouse lives
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: How many rounds?
<foobarry> reading not firing :P
<foobarry> old magz take half the time to read because you don't read the news sections
<TwistedLucidity> I have so many magazine piling up it's untrue.
<foobarry> i want to scan them
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> they are mostly airplane modelling magz so the content doesn't really go out of date
<foobarry> the guy bought about 5 mags a month over the last few years
<zmoylan-pi> oh look a new model spitfire...
 * JamesTait acquired an Airfix model spitfire on Saturday.
<TwistedLucidity> Hmmm...scan...OCR...wonder if some magic can auto-detect the pictures and drop them out as PNGs...
<zmoylan-pi> it is the starter piece of all model collections :-)
<JamesTait> Well, an airfield including a Spitfire, actually - and two trucks.
<TwistedLucidity> WARNING: JamesTait is planning to invade! He's bought his own airforce
<foobarry> nice, are you gonna make it?
<JamesTait> And technically it's not mine, it's my youngest's. But, y'know, acrylic cement, acrylic paints.  The boy will need some help. ;)
<JamesTait> foobarry, we started it on Sunday.
<JamesTait> We have a pilot and a seat painted, and the pilot glued to his seat.
<JamesTait> I spent more time trying to find the bits he'd "helpfully" removed from the packaging framework than I did actually building.
<foobarry> paint small parts while on the sprue
<foobarry> how old is the youngling?
<JamesTait> But I think after a couple of hours he'd come to understand that parts are numbered and need to stay attached until we need them, that you paint small parts before you try to use them, and that paint takes a few minutes to dry. ;)
<JamesTait> He's 8.
<JamesTait> Going on 18.
<foobarry> also if you use the supplied mini pots of paint, they suck a bit and needs a few thin coats
<foobarry> its a great father/son hobby
<TwistedLucidity> A time of real bonding
<foobarry> heh
<TwistedLucidity> Which often entails a visit to ER
<JamesTait> Haha!
<TwistedLucidity> To get de-bonded
<JamesTait> I see what you did there. :-P
<foobarry> this is a good video to watch if you use the supplied paint pots
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDQGtAIlXuE
<foobarry> don't rip stuff from the sprue like the video though, they are sort of making a vid of how to make a model using only the supplied bits in a starter set
<foobarry> hence no wire cutters
<davmor2> JamesTait: thats wrong mentally men should never get beyond 8 ;)  oh shiny, oh lego, oh toys, oh computers....and so on :)  That why we get married right so we have someone to say no :D
<foobarry> JamesTait: this set? http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/raf-battle-of-britain-airfield-gift-set-1-76.html
<JamesTait> foobarry, that's the one. :)
<foobarry> cool
<JamesTait> davmor2, our toys just get more expensive as we get older.
<foobarry> to do the grass bank, you also need white glue and scatter grass like this, applied through a sieve http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/javis/jft2_mid_green_fine_turf_premier_range.jpg
<davmor2> JamesTait: that and more easily justified but I work hard to earn all the money I spent on it :D
<JamesTait> foobarry, we should have some of that spare from his big brother's model railway. :)
<foobarry> perfect
<Myrtti> hihi, expensive toys. I just received a nail curing UV LED oven. "oops"
<Myrtti> just need to top up on my high-SPF sun lotions
<davmor2> Myrtti: that sounds so wrong, admittedly wifey has one already
<zmoylan-pi> and are now looking up other uses for it on geek sites to justify buying it :-)
<foobarry> liek removing the glass screen from a tablet/phone
<foobarry> hairdryer does the same though
<davmor2> Myrtti: now you need to buy the special nail gels for it too ;)
<Myrtti> davmor2: already done, fortunately I don't need that many
<foobarry> After years spent resisting the idea of adapting its hugely popular back catalogue of games for smartphones, Nintendo finally announces that it will be releasing titles for mobile devices.
<Myrtti> davmor2: all I need is base and top coats and two colours. http://www.amazon.co.uk/OPI-Gel-Color-Samoan-Lacquer/dp/B0076UUHGO/ and http://www.amazon.co.uk/OPI-Gel-Color-Alpine-Lacquer/dp/B0076UI39M
<foobarry> asked my wife about carbon needles, she says she prefers bamboo
<foobarry> her next project will involve a dressmakers mannequin :( no room in the house
<zmoylan-pi> so nintendo is finally going to put their crown jewels on other peoples hardware.  that must have hurt
<davmor2> Myrtti: wifey got hers as a set from qvc
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> QVC
<foobarry> that channel amuses me
<TwistedLucidity> BBC's MircoBit - good idea, or MS trojan horse to ruin the next generation of coders?
<TwistedLucidity> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/16/naked_computers_bbc_micro_coding_cc/
<zmoylan-pi> i'm leaning towards a way to hurt rasp pi
<bashrc_> instead of inspiring children to learn programming, why not just teach it as a subject in school, like English?
<zmoylan-pi> but if it's ide is unavailable to linux it won't take off outside the educational market
<bashrc_> of the source code is secret then that's obviously a fail straight out of the gate
<ali1234> it's an arm chip on a board
<ali1234> it's not even an SBC
<foobarry> NIH syndrome by PHBosses
<TwistedLucidity> It's intended to be programmed from a main PC (e.g. via MS's TouchDevelop), then do whatever it was told to do.
<TwistedLucidity> Ship some Arduino with good materials. Job done.
<ali1234> arduino is crap and expensive though
<zmoylan-pi> there are arduino clones that are cheap
<ali1234> i doubt the BBC can afford $20 per kid
<TwistedLucidity> I think they are trying to recapture that BBC Micro days....just don't think this is the way.
<ali1234> yes, arduino clones... like this one
<TwistedLucidity> And certainly *not* in partnership with the likes of MS or Samsung.
<ali1234> this will be a cortex M0 part
<ali1234> you won't be running linux on it, it will likely have about 32kb of ram
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, I know that.
<foobarry> rasp pi captured the bbc micro days
<ali1234> and total BOM of about Â£2
<zmoylan-pi> didn't someone get linux running on an 8bit chip? :-)
<ali1234> yes after connecting it to a 32MB SIMM
<ali1234> and writing an ARMv6 emulator
<foobarry> so the micro bit is useful only to display the floor number in a lift?
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, you're ruining the dream :-)
<ali1234> foobarry: not at all, i think it's a really nice design
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Just about. It's got some LEDs and few switches. No GPIO or anything AFAIK
<ali1234> i'd prefer it was AVR based, it's just nicer to program than ARM
<ali1234> on board bluetooth is good too
<ali1234> although that might disappear from the final version
<ali1234> since it will likely double the cost due to patents
<ali1234> although maybe that's why they have so many partners
<awilkins> On board bluetooth? It's a comm-badge
<awilkins> Look at those connective thread sewable contacts round the edge
<daftykins> morn
<daftykins> or at least, the first time i hopped on IRC :>
<bashrc_> evening
<daftykins> if you must :)
<daftykins> hmm naughty DCC spammers overnight i see
<daftykins> i may enquire about prices for plotters today, seems to be a multi-grand affair
<ali1234> you can get a 50W c02 laser cutter for less than that
<daftykins> :)
<awilkins> Just burn your design through a template and silk-screen it
<davmor2> czajkowski: just to check it's patty day right?
<czajkowski> davmor2: I will slap you
<davmor2> czajkowski: again
<davmor2> czajkowski: is that a no?
<czajkowski> indeed
<daftykins> methinks he likes the punishment
<daftykins> :>
<davmor2> daftykins: no but I do like to think of czajkowski sat rocking in the corner screaming it's Paddy's not patty's
<czajkowski> git
<foobarry> pull
<davmor2> czajkowski: pleasure
<DJones> davmor2: But it is "patty" isn't it, everybody I know called "Patrick" gets their name shortened to "Patty"
<DJones> (Admitedly, its only a sample of 1)
<foobarry> i remember pakky bonner the goalie
<foobarry> packie
<foobarry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packie_Bonner
<davmor2> DJones: czajkowski head will explode is you say that again :)
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Now there's a nickname that could start a fight in the wrong place....
<foobarry> used to get confused when i was a kid
<foobarry> before those internet days
<foobarry> the long arguments over whether the commentator was saying packie or patty or paddy
<DJones> davmor2: The guy I'm thinking of even has "patty" in his twitter nick
<foobarry> peppermint patty
<foobarry> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/3doodler-3d-printing-pen-n00ds
<foobarry> did popey get one of these?
<foobarry> did they change the world?
<awilkins> Did you see this one? http://t.co/Vl4JP5bjPI
<awilkins> The *detail* it does (from looking at the electron micrographs at the end)
<foobarry> wow
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: What's the point of that? Everything you make will be upside down!
<TwistedLucidity> Guess it might sell well in the antipodes. (Groans)
<foobarry> how long does http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop take to load?
<foobarry> trying to work out if there's a problem here or not
<popey> foobarry: i do
<foobarry> did it change your life?
<foobarry> or.. have you enjoyed using it
<popey> my life changed a bit
<popey> in that there's a new thing in it
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<foobarry> its a great gimmick but ultimately pointless
<foobarry> nice craft idea but not for Â£70
<daftykins> ugh my goverment is so useless
<foobarry> mine is great
<foobarry> oh wait..
<daftykins> trying to wipe an iPad someone i know was given for use, now she has to give it back... i was told i could go up there and get it done, turn up - 'nope, sorry... i'm just a trainee and the guy that knows these things is at lunch'
<foobarry> they need a wiki
<foobarry> and someone to document stuff
<daftykins> pretty simple to enact a device wipe via Exchange
<daftykins> heh :>
<davmor2> daftykins: and you think your government is different to everyone elses why
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> 'cause it's small, hard to misplace things :D
<popey> Azelphur: got a link to your funky conky config thing with a laptop wireframe?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc_> morning
<bashrc_> time zone appropriate greetings
<bigcalm> UGT
<davmor2> bashrc: it's always morning on the T'interwebz
<daftykins> and what a glorious morning indeed
<awilkins> Another hospital in Special Measures
 * awilkins watches the dominos fall
<bashrc_> special measures?
<daftykins> shaking up the management to meet targets i think
<awilkins> As in "Oh dear, you seem to be having a little financial trouble, we must intervene!"
<bashrc_> I don't really get how hospitals get into financial trouble. They're publicly funded
<awilkins> Because they're publicly underfunded
<bashrc_> heh
<awilkins> Because it's in the Tory interest to make them fail so they can introduce private services
<awilkins> It's Disaster Capitalism, only the disaster isn't a hurricane or  a war, it's austerity
<bashrc_> if health goes private then we can look to America to see what happens: low quality service which is incredibly expensive with ridiculous insurance schemes
<awilkins> An excess of service with no clinical justification because you can make money off it
<bashrc_> bogus diseases with expensive "cures"
<awilkins> It's nuts. We have one of the best healthcare systems of the G8 nations (as rated by a right-wing thinktank in Washington, DC)
<awilkins> best == outcomes AND economic efficiency
<awilkins> We spend the least per capita
<bashrc_> but not efficiency in terms of generating capital for share holders!
<awilkins> I think Cuba beats us but that's because they're communists
<awilkins> Exactly
<awilkins> Occam's Razor : if we're the best, the only reason to change our system to resemble the others more is because efficiency and patient outcomes are not at the forefront of the minds of those doing the changing
<awilkins> What do they have more of? Profit margins.
<davmor2> One is the loneliest number that you'll every do
<daftykins> grammar?
<bigcalm> Do you know it?
<davmor2> ever then :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: Of course I know it Harry Nilsson
<davmor2> There is a house in New Orleans
<daftykins> They call, "The Rising Sun"
<shauno> oh boy.  last time I was in bratislava, there was a british woman old enough to be my mother, belting that out in a pub.  all on her own.
<daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/16/retina-macbook-pro-stained-coating/ http://www.staingate.org/
<daftykins> my mother sings, too
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/14/why-blade-runner-is-timeless
<daftykins> it sure is
<daftykins> <3 Vangelis (the soundtrack)
<davmor2> seem like Cinemas will be showing it again for the 25 anniversary \o/
<awilkins> Is it the newest Ridley Scott Special Edition?
<awilkins> Cinemas will no doubt be showing it again to drum up demand for the sequel too
<daftykins> bit early surely
<davmor2> more to tie in with the 25 anniversary and then tie in with the sequel probablyt
<davmor2> -t
<diddledan> "simple" iphone pin lock unlocker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meEyYFlSahk
<daftykins> you just have to... pop it open. hmm.
<zmoylan-pi> well did apple say it was secure or 'secure'?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it's 'locked'
<zmoylan-pi> 'locked' or locked? :-)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYcrYXqnoN0
<daftykins> except your own home when you have no keys
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you have a porn buddy.  someone with a spare key for when you croak.
<diddledan> porn buddy? as in a friend to watch porn with?
<zmoylan-pi> you've never seen the british comedy coupling...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.snotr.com/video/3806/Porn_Buddies wow took a while to find a video
<davmor2> Hello darkness my old friend
<zmoylan-pi> of course now the protocol is updated to remove all internet history too :-)
<diddledan> it's a perk
<diddledan> lol
<intrbiz> davmor2: I've come to meet with you again
<zmoylan-pi> find and watch that show.  you will thank me... :-)
<diddledan> davmor2: lucky you
<zmoylan-pi> but the last season without jeff isn't great :-(
<diddledan> :-(
<davmor2> intrbiz: you really shouldn't know these song that well :)
<ali1234> well he got the lyric wrong so there's that
<intrbiz> davmor2: by coincidence I was just listening to it
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: of course who's to say the pages haven't suffered some form of adhesive contact fate
<intrbiz> ali1234: yeh, it's talk
<davmor2> intrbiz: you might like the album silence is golden then :)
<daftykins> ta-ra peeps, time for food ahead of pub quiz night \o/
<diddledan> curry?
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> yes! chinese chicken curry, a fine co-op microwave affair
<daftykins> for the rapid exit :)
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k4u0awsl9cnxqql/IMG_20150317_132648.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> my cat made a fort
<zmoylan-pi> well took posession of by the looks of it
<davmor2> intrbiz: all the leaves are brown
<diddledan> davmor2: and the sky is grey?
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah but you are old you should know it ;)
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> diddledan: just for you "There must be some kinda way outta here"
<diddledan> I recognise it but can't place it
<davmor2> diddledan: said the joker to the thief
<davmor2> diddledan: All along the watchtower Jimi Hendrix
<diddledan> gotcha
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/3bVXPSE.jpg
<foobarry> my favouriteclue on only connect that i've seen
<diddledan> foobarry: what was the question?
<diddledan> foobarry: I'd probably get it wrong by saying "my sequel" instead of "my ess queue ell"
<intrbiz> diddledan: you'd need to watch only connect to know there isn't a question
<mapp> ah
<mapp> the handyness of living next to a supermarket
<mapp> 15mins shopped paid packed home
<mapp> :D
<Azelphur> popey: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=4b3b801b17886f6c100da703f76f0395
<foobarry> got a screenshot Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> foobarry: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=553eddabfeaca770f463cfc6b7b4d1c2
<foobarry> much CSI
<foobarry> did you make steal or tweak?
<Azelphur> I made the whole thing
<foobarry> its great
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<Azelphur> the laptop is actually a photo of my laptop that I went over with the line tool in GIMP
<foobarry> i would +1 the heck out of that on g+
<foobarry> https://www.paradoxplaza.com/cities-skylines?___store=gb
<foobarry> simcity killer runs on linux!?
<foobarry> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/maxis-is-dead-but-this-game-is-better-than-simcity
<shauno> that's where I've been the last few days :(
<shauno> so far it's everything we hope simcity would be, except multiplayer & EA
<ali1234> cities in motion 2 had multiplayer
<shauno> yeah.  just saying skylines doesn't (yet? I haven't heard that they're planning on it either)
<ali1234> i don't have it yet
<ali1234> looks good but Â£22 is more than i'm willing to pay for a game
<shauno> but skylines is a full-on city builder, cim you just built the transport network while the city grew itself around you
<shauno> well, I think if you're a fan of the genre, it goes on the "things to watch for in the next steam sale" list
<directhex> skylines is a unity3d game (!)
<diddledan> why is it that in movies american tv studios always have a helicopter in the air in whatever city the film happens to be based in
<zmoylan-pi> because in america the military offloads a lot of helicopters when they want shiny new ones
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-18
<m0nkey_> grr... mouse pointer disappeared. it's still there, just not visible.
<m0nkey_> anyway to reset the pointer from the shell?
<zmoylan-pi> plug the mouse out and back in again?
<m0nkey_> nope, had to restart X
<zmoylan-pi> starting to wind down in dublin http://www.earthcam.com/world/ireland/dublin/?cam=templebar
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's a mess!
<diddledan> I like how the camera has had so much guinness that it's gone fuzzy, too
<zmoylan-pi> well it was jammers earlier.
<diddledan> did you go out and celebrate?
<zmoylan-pi> nah
<diddledan> or were you geeky and stayed with us :-p
<diddledan> seriously? a rickshaw?
<zmoylan-pi> they have those around dublin.  students make a few bob pedaling people in the back of them around city centre
<diddledan> is that pub still open?
<zmoylan-pi> well it won't be serving booze but people will be drinking their last drinks for next while
<zmoylan-pi> offically
<zmoylan-pi> so folk will go looking for a fast food joint open or wait in a massive queue for a taxi
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/577994125171122176/photo/1
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/578019245071724544/photo/1
<diddledan> nvidia have a new gpu - the titan-x
<diddledan> 8 beelion transistors
<diddledan> 3000 cuda cores
<diddledan> 12GB framebugger
<diddledan> 7TFLOPS single precision - it's much slower on double-precision - they have an older card that beats it hands down at double-precision
<diddledan> $999
<mapp> hi night owls
<mapp> wow sounds a lot
<mapp> new series aired tonight yay
<mapp> sounds ok
<mapp> iZombie
<mapp> battle creek time;D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> iZombie .. seriously ?
<MooDoo> morning all
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * awilkins channels JamesTait
<awilkins> Happy United Kingdom Budget Day!
<TwistedLucidity> Yay! I'm even more poor.
<TwistedLucidity> But that's OK.
<TwistedLucidity> It would really upset me if the non-taxpaying bankers had to give up their second Ferrari
<TwistedLucidity> The poor dears
<ali1234> don't worry, now that you have no more money it's really easy for the HMRC to calculate your tax, so you won't have to do self assessment any more
<ali1234> (but only if you re-elect the tories)
<TwistedLucidity> Dammit. I need to send a letter to HMRC confessing my sins. Again.
<foobarry> HMRC conveniently underestimated my charitable giving by a few grand so my tax code is all wrong
<foobarry> no idea where they get their figures from as its the same figure more or less each year
<TwistedLucidity> In fairness to them, they've actually been really helpful in the past. They agreed they owe me money. \o/
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I remember my first job and being stuck on the emergency tax code for w-a-y too long. Once they paid me back, it was like winning the lottery.
<TwistedLucidity> I gould afford a *second* 99p burger!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Forgive Mom & Dad Day! :-D
<awilkins> Too late, we already impersonated you for UK Budget Dat
<awilkins> *Day
<foobarry> nobody says happy budget day
<TwistedLucidity> Why don't we call it what it is? It's not "Budget day" it's "Panic! Bribe the electorate day"
<foobarry> except the chancellor
<awilkins> I bet certain segments of the population are very happy about it
<ali1234> if by "electorate" you mean "old people" then yes
<TwistedLucidity> Well there's no point in brining the young 'uns. They're all on zero-hour contracts and have no money!
<awilkins> "Yeah, and we managed to convince that Russell Brand to tell them all not to vote..."
<TwistedLucidity> He's right to think there's a problem, he's wrong to think that non-participation is somehow a solution.
<foobarry> here's how i know linkedin are dodgy..
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: You keep getting invites from people who you may have communicated with, but linkedin shouldn't know about?
<foobarry> i've never accepted any scraping of my email or cookies or info, but some guy who emailed me by accident over a mix up of email address is appearing in the "people you may know " category
<TwistedLucidity> I realised a while back they are buying my comms info from Google.
<foobarry> is there proof
<ali1234> it just means the other person imported their mail box
<ali1234> every email has a "to" and a "from" you know
<foobarry> i see other guys too
<foobarry> its too consistent
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I emailed a plumber about a quote. ~2 weeks later Linkdin suggested I added him as part of my network; how could they have known?
<foobarry> i had one guy on my phone, i'm sure
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: yeah, and g+ suggests these ppl too
<foobarry> but at least google already know
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Wouldn't know - the real me doesn't use G+
<TwistedLucidity> I only have Linkedin because I was forced to
<diplo> TwistedLucidity, do you have the app ?
<foobarry> i don't
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Yeah, you could be right there. Maybe I should put a disclaimer at the top of my email saying "You may no pass contact details to any third party"
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Heck no. Why install more spyware?
<popey> morning
 * TwistedLucidity simply does not understand the whole "social media" thing.
<diplo> At one point they were scouring your contacts, and there is an option on the site to join with your contacts but the same as FB etc, if you're in someone elses contacts that's all that it takes for them to link you to people
<foobarry> well, its like irc
<diplo> It sucks
<foobarry> but slower
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: IRC doesn't invade my privacy.
<ujjain> do I work at good friday?
<diplo> TwistedLucidity, me either.. only reason I'm on FB is to keep in touch with people up north, I actually meet and see my friends :)
<foobarry> logs
<foobarry> ujjain: its a public holiday
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Pfft. Like this is my real name....
<TwistedLucidity> And yes, I know my IP might be showing.
<foobarry> ooer missis
<ujjain> so we have a 4 day weekend?
<foobarry> yes
<JamesTait> YES! \o/
<foobarry> most of us do
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: That side of it I get (which is why I use a telephone and email), what I don't get is being treated as a leper for not being on FB.
<foobarry> i have a 10 days weekend
<TwistedLucidity> I am not on there as I assigned a non-zero value to privacy.
<foobarry> facebook is great
<foobarry> IMHO
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Check with HR - you may have floating holidays.
 * TwistedLucidity doesn't usually get public holidays
 * JamesTait reads the small print in foobarry's message: "facebook is (a) great (big privacy nightmare)".
<TwistedLucidity> I really should check out GNU Social at some point.
<TwistedLucidity> Thing is, if no one I know is on there; what's the point?
<TwistedLucidity> It's like Skype. Sure, Tox/Jitsi/Whatever may be better; but if no one uses them....
<foobarry> i like facebook for sharing photos and silly comments with friends and family members
<foobarry> and for providing info about other acquaintances that makes it easier to have conversation with them when i see them at church or shopping in town etc
<TwistedLucidity> Photos that can be used to advertise any product, at any time, in any place.
<TwistedLucidity> Is facial recognition still a thing on FB?
<awilkins> Of course it is!
<awilkins> I quite like the notion of "local social" platforms
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Another reason to avoid it then. Ta.
<awilkins> But that YikYak thing proves that the Greater Internet F***wad effect extends to the Lesser Internet of local people.
<TwistedLucidity> Huh?
<Myrtti> awilkins: streetlife, then? :-D
<awilkins> Anonymous local social network app
<awilkins> People use it to send horrible death threats to everyone in the vicinity
<foobarry> tag pictures of fluff and the man in the moon as yourself
<Myrtti> I see hozelock uses Red Hat and Apache.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: But...if you don't know there person or where they are...what's the point?
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Yay! I own GNU/Hose.! :-)
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Well, that's what a rational person would think. But some people just get giggles from imagining that they upset someone.
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/Hozelock/status/577494964680204288
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Well...one could play the odds and send "Root inject: OK. Camera on: OK. Message: Huh, that top doesn't do much for your eyes; does it?"
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Someone forgot to give user "www" read permits?
 * TwistedLucidity has never forgotten that. Not ever. Honest.
<Myrtti> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Myrtti> I fail in irssi
<Myrtti> I had forgotten I had that in /completion
<Myrtti> and so I pasted it instead of saying "sshrug" without the quotes.
<TwistedLucidity> Dunno if I can do that with Konversation. Didn't even know it was a thing.
<Myrtti> irssi4lyfe
<bashrc_> not just for christmas
<diplo> I really must set my irssi back  up
<diplo> :/
<TwistedLucidity> Does irssi support multiple identities?
<Myrtti> define multiple identity
<bashrc_> as in multiple nicks on different channels, yes
<Myrtti> well, obviously if you want multiple nicks on same network, you need to have multiple connections to that network
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Different networks at once, with different logins etc
<Myrtti> of course
<Myrtti> I should continue on my crochet project so I can finish my Arduino project...
<TwistedLucidity> Auto-replaced test
<TwistedLucidity> Ah-ha!
<Myrtti> hopefully I don't need to start a spinning project for the aforementioned
<popey> \o/ irssi
<popey>  (ÊâÊ)ã¯ å½¡ â»ââ»
<popey> and other completions
<foobarry> how do you set a completion?
<cocoa117> what is the populr computer security news site or RSS around?
<cocoa117> popular
<foobarry> OSS or general computing
<cocoa117> foobarry, OSS as web site?
<foobarry> open source security, or all type
<foobarry> isc.sans.edu
<ali1234> nothing gets past reddit
<TwistedLucidity> Including your life :-S
<Myrtti> foobarry: /help completion?
<awilkins> Is there an "official" full-disk-encryption for Ubuntu method?
<Myrtti> luks?
<awilkins> All the top hits for that say things like "Applicable to Ubuntu 10.04" and "Needs updating to include the latest versions"
<directhex> luks requires d-i, iirc
<awilkins> What's d-i ?
<directhex> works with 14.04, but only from the d-i installer
<awilkins> Is it compatible with bcache ?
<popey> nope
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> it works from the graphical installer too
<popey> I installed my 14.04 laptop with it, and have updated. It just works.
<directhex> popey: i thought that was only ecryptfs homedir encryption
<awilkins> What about encrypting a system that's already installed?
<popey> nope, the installer does both
<directhex> fancy
<popey> you get luks option during partitioning, and then later, during user creation you get the ecryptfs option
<awilkins> And will it work on bcache devices?
<popey> i have never touced bcache, so pass
<popey> don't see why not though
<popey> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/76941/bcache-and-disk-encryption
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/252140/how-do-i-install-and-use-flashcache-bcache-to-cache-hdd-to-ssd
<diplo> OK irssi installed, now to remember how I had it set up :D
<popey> heh
<popey> again. \o/ irssi
<foobarry> i have love hate with irssi
<nigelb> irssi â¥
<foobarry> i use it but the awesomeness is concealed
<awilkins> Already got bcache installed :-)
<popey> https://www.debian-administration.org/article/577/How_To_Migrate_to_a_full_encrypted_LVM_system
<awilkins> help.ubuntu.com is a bit flaky ATM
<popey> how so?
<awilkins> Intermittently throwing 500 error pages
<popey> thanks, will report
<popey> hmm, i cant trigger that
<diplo> I remember doing an encrypted connection to irssi before, what am I looking for ? rather than the identify thing
<diplo> sasl ?
<popey>  /help connect
<foobarry> what gets encrypted? user/pass or everything?
<popey> its over ssl
<Myrtti> you would want sasl in most cases
<Myrtti> and SSL in all cases
<diplo_> \o/
<foobarry> diplo_: can you tell me what settings you use when you work it out please?
 * foobarry lazy
<diplo> https://freenode.net/sasl/sasl-irssi.shtml
<diplo> Typo, I now have #ubunt-uk A bit lonely though! :D
<foobarry> The OpenSSL project team would like to announce the forthcoming release
<foobarry> of OpenSSL versions 1.0.2a, 1.0.1m, 1.0.0r and 0.9.8zf.
<foobarry> These releases will be made available on 19th March. They will fix a number of security defects. The highest severity defect fixed by these releases is classified as "high" severity."
<awilkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FullDiskEncryptionHowto << Last updated 12.10, doesn't recommend what seems to be the preferred option (LUKS)
<awilkins> While it's easy to be a critic, Ubuntu needs good documentation on full-disk encryption if it wants to be taken seriously by the "enterprise" market
<awilkins> I've got our new security officer who doesn't even seem to be aware of the existence of anything other than Windows
<awilkins> Wanting us all on full-disk encryption
<foobarry> always found it ironic that bruce schneier the security guy runs windows
<bashrc_> full disk encryption is fine
<foobarry> saw a load of helpdesk tickets about a certain windows botnet this week, but the names of all the machines were macbookpro, mbair, etc
<bashrc_> it's amazing the amount of inertia which windows has, despite its flaws
<bashrc_> shipping by default is really powerful
<foobarry> its like a woman staying with a wife beater
<bashrc_> yes, similar
<diplo_> I like to see the channels in irssi and also nicks colored, anyone recommend the scripts ? Can't remember what I used before
<foobarry> nickcolor
<diplo_> Tooooo many on scripts.irssi :)
<diplo_> ta
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> i also use nicklist to show users in chan
<foobarry> but it breaks copy/paste of long urls
<bigcalm> irssi scripts I use: awayproxy.pl  keepnick.pl  nickcolor.pl
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Does hibernate work with full-disc-encrypt? I know it was failing for me with encrypted /home
<awilkins> Dunno, never use it
<awilkins> So LUKS needs a block devices so the layering would be    [discs] | bcache | LUKS   ?
<TwistedLucidity> What happens is that on restart, it can't access the /tmp area as it has lost the randomly generated ky
<awilkins> Wait, does encrypted /home also encrypt /tmp ?
<awilkins> And swap?
<jpds> awilkins: No, always have LUKS on top.
<TwistedLucidity> Swap, that was the one. Yes it does.
<jpds> TwistedLucidity: And yes, you can hibernate with LUKs.
<TwistedLucidity> jpds: Pretty sure that's what my /home uses and it doesn't work for me. Well, didn't.
<TwistedLucidity> Shall test later
<foobarry> stephen hawkings wife just rang me
<awilkins> >-<
<foobarry> HI...we have been TRYING to call YOU on numerous occasions regarding PPI...click
<awilkins> Oh.
<awilkins> Would be much cooler if it was actually his wife   "Hi, I've heard you're awesome at computers, will you come and program a small macro that makes Stephen's chair dance in time to Girls Aloud music?"
<TwistedLucidity> Stephen Hawking is no so down on his luck, that he has to pimp his wife out for cold-calls? Wow. Call the Daily Mail!
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Having read his bio, he might like that.
<foobarry> i think he was married btu "ran" off with his nurse
<TwistedLucidity> "Error message: null" <- going to be a long, long day :-(
<zmoylan-pi> nah i once got an error 13 or 15 from trying to print.  that had long day written all over it
<zmoylan-pi> no message, no text just error 15.  have you ever tried to search for such a descriptive error to find out what it means
<zmoylan-pi> and the new windows hello feature will have one great boon.  instead of dropping off pcs for you to fix 'in a few minutes' eejits will have to hang around for hours so reenter windows after every reboot
<DJones> popey: There was mention of ubuntu.com having issues, this has just been commented on in #ubuntu https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<popey> thanks
<DJones> It was Thebigdeal referring to it over there
<popey> reported it
 * JamesTait wonders if he should be concerned about the AWACS that's passed over his house four times in three days.
<MooDoo> they are coming for you JamesTait ;)
<JamesTait> They can have me. They'll soon give me back.
<zmoylan-pi> it might mean they're intercepting the secret messages your microwave is sending back to samsung
<JamesTait> $ sudo snappy upgrade my-microwave
<zmoylan-pi> it'll need your credit card details but won't say why
<JamesTait> It'll need to explain why it's sending messages back to Samsung instead of Kenwood as well.
<zmoylan-pi> it's undercover of course
<shauno> they're not secret messages .. just everything you say in the room.  no secret .. anymore ;)
<zmoylan-pi> day #1737 more microwave popcorn...
<zmoylan-pi> either the phone, the tv or the internet connected barbie is grassing you up
<popey> DJones: the box is currently under heavy load due to a long running backup. gonna leave it running so the backup completes, might be slow / unresponsive for a bit
<DJones> Cheers
<popey> np
<davmor2> JamesTait: You're not my dad I don't need to apologise to you :P
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> davmor2, nor do you need to forgive me - oh, wait....
<MooDoo> ho
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: howdo
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha nice :)
<Myrtti> why am I surprised to hear Michel Roux Jr. speaking French? It makes no sense
<popey> heh, yeah, all french chefs should speak in english with a comically bad french accent :)
<Myrtti> I should brush up on my French...
<Myrtti> been dormant for nearly 20 years.
<awilkins> And a hilariously tall and bouffant taupe
<zmoylan-pi> no no the accent should be so bad as to throw off french people like inspector closeau.  minkey
<awilkins> s/taupe/toque/
<Myrtti> I have to say my enjoyment of this show is marred by the fact that plex doesn't seem to recognise that I've got Finnish subtitles for the show
<Myrtti> it's a bit difficult to follow on the French without it
<popey> also, other accents that sound great include English with Finnish accent (of course) and English with Danish accent. (Sweden too I guess)
<popey> I don't know why, but every Finnish person I know speaks English with a kind of stilted cadence.
<popey> (which I like)
<directhex> all famous chefs should be lenny henry.
<popey> http://notyetthere.org/the-reward-of-a-loooong-journey/
<popey> \o/ we finally shipped a phone :)
<zmoylan-pi> someones phone fell in an envelope by mistake? :-P
<DJones> Nah, popey just got sent to sea
<popey> surprised mzanetti got his first
<popey> given he ordered after me :)
<TwistedLucidity> M comes before P?
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be interesting to see them in use
<popey> his surname is Zanetti :)
<TwistedLucidity> Be interesting to see if they gain traction, seeing as how Android is going down the toilet.
<popey> which I am almost certain coms after P :)
<popey> well the first phone is aimed at people like us - nerdy ubuntu friendly hackers
<popey> not my mum
<TwistedLucidity> I actually assumed that was the second phone - the quad(?) core jobbie coming out later this year
<TwistedLucidity> So long as OEMs and carriers don't ruin it with their "add value" muck, should be good.
<popey> octacore
<TwistedLucidity> HTC desgin meeting: "So, we have the new version of Android, what should we do?" "Break all the things like last time?" "Sounds good to me!"
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That's the puppy, couldn't recall for sure if it was octo
<zmoylan-pi> don't forget every app loaded with adverts!!
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: That's OK if the app is free
<TwistedLucidity> Dev's gotta make some money
<zmoylan-pi> when i used free apps on psion and palm and symbian i didn't have adverts or nagware
<TwistedLucidity> Although I despise the sneaky ones that look like virus alerts.
<knightwise> i did an extensive test of the S6 and the S6 edge yesterday
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: That's because the infrastructure didn't exist as it does now.
<zmoylan-pi> but americans are used to been bombarded by ads so what the hell
<knightwise> Samsung has learned how to scale down touchwizz :)
<zmoylan-pi> TwistedLucidity: it did, a lot of pc shareware was nagware just didn't happen on mobile
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Meh, I wasn't rich enough to afford a Psion.
<TwistedLucidity> They were neat though
<TwistedLucidity> For the time
<zmoylan-pi> you missed the rolls royce of pdas TwistedLucidity
<zmoylan-pi> just insanely good
<TwistedLucidity> There's two things that drive me up the wall about modern phones
<TwistedLucidity> 1) The pre-loaded junk one can't delete (e.g. Facebook, Twitter etc)
<TwistedLucidity> 2) The lack of decent security controls
<cocoa117> in man page, what is different between man 1 and man 1p? i know p stardard for POSIX, but why the difference?
<TwistedLucidity> "Oh look, Maps wants access to my contacts. Why would it ever need that? [DENY]"
<zmoylan-pi> battery lives that make butterflies look like old timers was my biggest gripe
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, there's a thrid.
<TwistedLucidity> 3) Showing a map with a marker for a contact's address, but not showing the flippin' address itself!
<zmoylan-pi> updates that felt like downgrades were another
<TwistedLucidity> Seriously. How hard is it? Show the address as text, have a "Show on map" buttong. Done. Everyone happy. But no. No idea if Google or HTC are to blame for that one.
<zmoylan-pi> googles contacts apps was always weird, always felt it was doing more work for google than me
<TwistedLucidity> Don't you feel comforted by the warm embrace of the Google-beast? Keeping you safe. Tightening. Stopping you breathing...
 * TwistedLucidity wonders how many projects will go AWOL when Google Code closes
<ali1234> literally none that anyone cares about
<ali1234> google code is full of dead projects
<ali1234> and things that were migrated to git years ago
<TwistedLucidity> Probably explains why it's gettig killed off then. Still a few on there I use, but minor.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you'll probably find they move their code to github too
<BaNaer_Liffan> Hi, am trying to get a CMOS imaging device running in Utopic 14.10.  Ubuntu sees the camera, however Cheese (and other programs) cannot see the camera driver. Could someone help please?
<popey> BaNaer_Liffan: does it show up in /dev as /dev/video0 or /dev/video1 or similar?
<popey> BaNaer_Liffan: also, how is it connected? usb?
<ali1234> i do find it mildly amusing to see github stomping all over launchpad. how does it feel to have the thing you love considered old, slow and difficult to use by a bunch of annoying kids?
<zmoylan-pi> congratulations ali1234 welcome to the old fogeys club we have lawns you know :-)
<MooDoo> \o/ yay old fogies
 * zmoylan-pi waves walking stick in the air
<TwistedLucidity> Hey you grampas, get off my lawn!
 * popey looks forward to git support in launchpad :)
<MooDoo> lol if i could pick this zimmer up, i'd clout you with it
<zmoylan-pi> you need to add blades at ankle level to the zimmer MooDoo
<TwistedLucidity> Old folks are dangerous enough already! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31928879
<Myrtti> wow. I just got the Nexus 9 cover. Magnets, how do they work??????
<davmor2> Myrtti: will possibly put the device to sleep when closed or something made like that :)
<Myrtti> yeah it did, but also it's the method of how the thing actually sticks on it
<davmor2> Myrtti: nice
<davmor2> Myrtti: I guess it is to get rid of the ugly corner clamps
<Myrtti> I would have rather had that to be honest
<Myrtti> edges and corners are where I tend to bang the tablet on
<zertyui> hi
<zertyui> there
<zertyui> my / continue 0.1% per day how to identify the process writting permanentaly on the system ?
<popey> wat?
<popey> oh, i see, probably something in /var/log
<foobarry> find . -mtime 1 -ls
<foobarry> from a directory you want to search in
<foobarry> 0.1% of a terabyte, kb, or petabyte?
<zertyui> sorry 1%
<zertyui> gigabyte
<foobarry> so 1MB a day
<foobarry> if it's exposed to the internet then it could be logs from apache, or /var/log/secure
<foobarry> after a week they might get rotated by logrotate
<foobarry> in not, there would be a large file on your system thats relatively easy to find
<foobarry> otherwise you need to check for files modified today and inspect each one
<foobarry> or run lsof on a quiet system to see which files are in use
<zertyui> thx
<zertyui> could you explain find . -mtime 1 -ls ?
<zertyui> what is this command ?
<foobarry> find - search for files in a directory hierarchy
<foobarry> -mtime n File's  data  was  last modified n*24 hours ago.
<foobarry> -ls  list current file in ls -dils format on standard output.
<foobarry> find . = find files in this directory and below. could also use find / or find /var/log/
<zertyui> mtime 1 ?
<foobarry> actually mtime -1 is better, as it shows files modified in less than 1 day
<zertyui> ok berfect
<zertyui> perfect thanks
<davmor2> zertyui: do you use a webbrowser/terminal/any apps  if so the data they write alone will cover your 1% with ease :)
<davmor2> zertyui: don't forget that / is everything on your system
<foobarry> "Windows RT is dead, according to a Microsoft slide shown on WinBeta.org today. It will not receive updates. It has no upgrade path, although it may get a few consolation features."
<zmoylan-pi> was it ever alive?
<foobarry> some people bought those ipad things
<foobarry> which is what they kept getting called even though MS spent big bucks on ensuring they were used in basketball games or something
<zmoylan-pi> 2 billion dollars spent i think and the tv hosts kept calling them ipads and/or using them as supports for their actual ipads :-)
<mapps> yay
<mapps> got darts tickets
<mapps> Â£20!
<awilkins> WinRT was a daft play
<awilkins> They copied too much from Apple - including the walled garden
<awilkins> At least Windows are a welcoming platform, even if they aren't open
<mapps> only 322 seats
<mapps> and 15 left
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> quite small really
<zmoylan-pi> windows rt could have been excellent.  if it had of been easy to install linux on them they would have sold.
<zmoylan-pi> it would have attracted developers who would have played with them and maybe gotten more apps
<awilkins> Yeah, but RT was the OS
<awilkins> And the UEFI / Secure Boot thing was part of the strategy
<awilkins> Unlike Google who know enough to leave a DIP switch somewhere to turn it off
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cleaner-Keyboards-Mobile-Phones-Computers/dp/B00C6LS64I/
<daftykins> this looks novel, it's like silly putty for your keyboard/remotes/etc
<diddledan> ebenink
<shauno> already?
<shauno> http://i.imgur.com/YGqzUC8.jpg  I think the less said about this chap, the better.  my first ever cruise passenger.  and he wants to visit a playground.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> shauno: he's sick
<foobarry> cruise passengers always are
<foobarry> floating disease ships
<diddledan> interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31953800
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31942639
<diddledan> googley tax
<diddledan> apparently we're not allowed to have fun in a double irish sandwich anymore.
<diddledan> oh dear, the Â£1 coin is not gonna be circular anymore
<diddledan> it's gonna be 12-sided
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31938400
<directhex> a billion new coin slots will be manufactured
<diddledan> won't we have problems with some slots taking it and other slots refusing?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> for about 20 years
<diddledan> "stop putting that in my slot!"
<daftykins> wow, Ori and the Blind Forest gets insanely hard
<daftykins> http://1drv.ms/1GqmcXI
<daftykins> atrocious quality video, but eh
<daftykins> the bit that's tough isn't even this :|
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-19
<diddledan> microsoft seem to be rather committed to opensourcing lots of .net stuff - earlier this evening msbuild went publicly open source
<daftykins> seems all pirates are gonna get win10 too
<diddledan> yup that too
<diddledan> I was talking to my daddy about win10 - he suggested he's going to wholesale upgrade both his laptops and his desktop
<daftykins> hmm
<diddledan> he's on win7 on his most current machine - and winxp elsewhere
<daftykins> and you allow this XPness to continue :(
<diddledan> (I didn't suggest he pirate win7 to be eligible for the 10 upgrade :-p)
<diddledan> I wonder how much win7 piracy is gonna occur that wasn't going to between now and 10 releases just because people want the upgrade
<daftykins> i've only seen good legacy methods, not EFI
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> i wonder if 10'll see 7 and allow a full clean install
<diddledan> it should do
<diddledan> but you'll need to burn it to disc to do that
<daftykins> flash drive ;)
<diddledan> the 8 upgrade I got a while back recognised vista partially installed as a legit copy so I didn't need to actually put a license key in there
<diddledan> i.e. run the installer up-to the first boot ignoring the request to insert the key, then pop-in the 8 upgrade disc and do a clean 8 install
<diddledan> first reboot**
<diddledan> basically that just copies the vista files to the disc ready for the native installer to take over on the reboot, which you don't let happen by instead booting into the 8 disc
<daftykins> mmhmm
<diddledan> vista also recognised this - my vista was an upgrade copy too. only cleverly it recognised it's own files as a preinstalled windows. so boot vista dvd, ignore the key prompt and carry on regardless to let it go through the motions, reboot to the dvd instead of the on-hdd-installer and do the process again this time putting-in the upgrade key.
<diddledan> result. one fully licensed upgrade clean-install without requiring a previous version at all
<daftykins> :) i think ei.cfg modifications made even that easier
<diddledan> probably
<daftykins> i like the idea of 10 having no product key entry \o/
<diddledan> \o/ indeed
<daftykins> be nice if it does lack the need for one
<daftykins> mind you it probably will need one, since the upgrade idea is free only for a year
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> so there'd need to be some method to restrict that afterwards 0o
<daftykins> i wonder if it'll run nicely on my ageing Core 2 Quad
<diddledan> have you got 10 installed anyplace yet?
<diddledan> it should fly on that
<diddledan> core2 is still fairly usable
<diddledan> tbh I don't actually think things have moved-on much since the c2
<daftykins> nothing bare metal
<daftykins> nah, that's why i don't fancy upgrading anytime soon
<daftykins> PCI-Express storage is here now, proper NVMe would be good - plus err... USB 3.1
<daftykins> may as well hold out until DDR4 is standard as well now, so end of this year
<diddledan> I think intel have been more focused on power-saving in their cpus mostly
<daftykins> yeah, all the OS design changes to make them idle quicker have been good too
<diddledan> yeah, uefi is pretty much my only thinking of definite requirements on a new-build if I ever get around to building one
<diddledan> once you've got uefi it opens doors to that nvme you mention
<daftykins> games are definitely beginning to suck on my GTX 560 Ti, but i don't game on the PC so i'm alright :>
<diddledan> I just don't game
<daftykins> wise decision, it's pretty time killing really
<diddledan> I'm still intrigued by the potential of super gfx cards to run a pixar-style animation entirely in realtime tho
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> kinda funny we're many generations past realtime Toy Story 1 already
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> i wonder where we are now 0o
<diddledan> toy story is positively simple by comparisson to some of today's games
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> did y'watch my Ori vid? :D
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> that's soooo pretty
<daftykins> video transcode off the xbone is such dire quality
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> i wonder if the sources can be uploaded using youtube instead 0o
<daftykins> or copied off somehow
<diddledan> prolly not
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> maybe i'll get some disk space back once the xbox one runs win10 :D
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> ok time to sleep i think
<diddledan> nn
<daftykins> SSD should show up tomorrow for someone \o/
<diddledan> ooh
<daftykins> then it's yet more time with my ol' pal clonezilla
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> SSD upgrade too, so zip zip :D
<diddledan> remember the lessons from your previous attempt
<daftykins> thankfully this one'll be smaller to larger... so it'll be easy peasy
<diddledan> phew
<daftykins> plug both in, boot, clone, boot windows, resize to fill the new drive in diskmgmt.msc, done
<diddledan> yeah, simple
<diddledan> unless it's gpt
<diddledan> gpt stores the partition layout at the end IIRC?
<diddledan> tho I would hope clonezilla can cope with that
<daftykins> got all win7 legacy Dells in said office
 * diddledan googles gpt..
<diddledan> or maybe I'll bingle it
<daftykins> bungle
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> oh, maybe I'm wrong - looks like it might be "directly-after mbr"
<daftykins> huzzah!
<diddledan> mbr is on LBA 0 and gpt is on LBA 1
<daftykins> ah so that's how you can have both
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> when you have both they call the mbr a "protective mbr" because it's designed to mask-out the gpt-only partitions with a fake mbr partition
<diddledan> that way an mbr-only os sees the fake partitions and doesn't write there
<daftykins> mmm had seen that term crop up
<daftykins> in fact, i don't think i did a full wipe when i took off win8 and put on legacy 7 on that cheap Lenovo, so before clonezilla let me backup, it made me delete the GPT evidence
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> usually i get people to just write a tonne of zeroes to nuke a disk and make it appear to have nothing
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> well, like just a few MB
<diddledan> for ssd's it'ld be nice to have a single command that just tells it to forget everything
<diddledan> similar to TRIM only for the entire disc in one-fell-swoop
<diddledan> kinda like a factory reboot
<daftykins> that's secure erase, sir
<daftykins> only it seems quite awkward to get tools to actually do it
<daftykins> sometimes you have to do a boot live session, suspend, resume - dance, to 'unlock' the drive
<diddledan> and being an ata command it would allow the disc to just forget the cells that it thinks contain data rather than getting it to wipe every damned individual cell
<daftykins> i think it just tells the controllers to forget their table map
<diddledan> http://boingboing.net/2014/03/25/att-to-netflix-if-you-dont.html
<daftykins> interesting comment in a review of a Lenovo ultrabook...
<daftykins> if i can find it
<daftykins> reviewer compared a Core M broadwell to a quad core with HT i7-860 - the 5W Core M can beat that 95W part
<daftykins> though obviously in a laptop it can't stay at that for long
<daftykins> pretty neat metric though :D
<daftykins> ok sleep this time! \o
<mapps> hi folks
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> ello
<mapps> ;}
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the banjos and hands out the sheet music...
<mapps> cool tv niht
<mapps> workaholics sunny in philly arrow;p
<mapps> and sucky csi cyber
<diddledan> wonder if my downloader grabbed csi cyber yet
<mapps> its apparently alrady been renewed for a 2nd season
<mapps> LOL
<mapps> i thought for sure would be canned
<diddledan> heh
<zmoylan-pi> generic tv show gets renewed
<mapps> it sucks bad imo
<mapps> its alwas sunny in philly time
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> love it ..so funny
<diddledan> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/services/mobile/default.stm
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> circa 2003
<diddledan> how the web has got a LOT better!
<zmoylan-pi> i used to like avantgo on palm pda
<zmoylan-pi> before i left to catch bus sync palm and download a few mb of newspapers to read on the bus
<diddledan> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i keep thinking of setting up calibre to do something similar but it would never be as elegant
<diddledan> I don't like calibre based on it's security stance
<zmoylan-pi> which is?
<diddledan> i.e. their insistance on installing a suid binary which allows anybody with access to a system to escalate privilege via usage of norty mountpoints that the suid binary allows them to create at will
<diddledan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 885027 in calibre "SUID Mount Helper has 5 Major Vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Fix released]
<diddledan> the author of the app marked it as fix released but he hasn't
<zmoylan-pi> all of wikipedia in 46gb... tempting... http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Main_Page
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> gee, 7am already
<zmoylan-pi> your clock is slow 0705
<zmoylan-pi> 0706 now
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<diddledan> the banter between the cli guy and the gui guy in this video is fun: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/MIX/MIX11/FRM09
<MooDoo> morning al
<MooDoo> all
<zmoylan-pi> but not al...
<MooDoo> no don't like al ;)
 * zmoylan-pi hums you can call me al
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<diddledan> dum diddy dum dum
<diddledan> morning MooDoo
 * diddledan waits for visual studio to do something I don't understand
<MooDoo> diddledan: are you having fun with visual studio?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> I am indeed :-p
<davmor2> Morning all
<directhex> moo
<CupofPSB> Morning, morning.
<CupofPSB> I've hit a snag with twitter registration.
<CupofPSB> Anyone able to help with a mobile ?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<CupofPSB> Hi Knightwise
<knightwise> hey CupofPSB
<Myrtti> morning
<CupofPSB> Could you give me a hand ?
<diddledan> morning knightwise , Myrtti
<diddledan> directhex: m00
<diddledan> allo davmor2 :-p
<CupofPSB> I spoke to you last week about the DD onto a stick with distroshare on a chromebook.
<diddledan> is that everyone?
<CupofPSB> Feeling topper, except for twitter.
<directhex> they require a mobile number now to stop burner accounts used for trolling, iirc?
<CupofPSB> knightwise: you there ?
<diddledan> directhex: really?
<CupofPSB> yes, The only trouble is thast I have entered the mobile number. But but, because I'm on the IOMan , the text hasn't come through - & I've not used this number before.
<knightwise> CupofPSB: yep
<CupofPSB> wondering if someone could tell me the code to put into the box, If i may be so brave as to put your number in , just this once (PM me).
<knightwise> CupofPSB: indeed , did you get the vchromebook working ?
<CupofPSB> NO, the DD stick wouldn't get past grub.
<CupofPSB> but I bought a lenovo , if people remember.
<knightwise> CupofPSB: lenovo chromebook ?
<CupofPSB> CAn someone help with my twitter please - No, the lenovo X201 was a cheapo I found on erBay , . Found out no so cheap though, apparently.
<CupofPSB> *not
<CupofPSB> has anyone got a spare sim card they dont use much lying around ?
<awilkins> CupofPSB, if you have a landline, texts to that are usually read out in a robot ladyvoice
<CupofPSB> i dont have a landline, annoyingly.
 * knightwise is in belgium  , don't have a burner sim unfortunately
<CupofPSB> everything runs off free data pay as you go.
<CupofPSB> ooh poo. I'm really stuck here.
<ali1234> CupofPSB: get a free sim from three.co.uk
<ali1234> they are... free
 * CupofPSB thinks there must be a back-up sim policy amongst some #ubuntu-uk users ?
<ali1234> why?
<CupofPSB> I'm on the isle of Man .. none of the sims work on the website .. it';s a bug !
<ali1234> why do you even need a sim to register on twitter?
<ali1234> why do you even want to register on twitter at all?
<CupofPSB> this isn't helping, at-all.
<CupofPSB> ali1234: are you trolling me ?
<awilkins> I'm sorry, does the topic say "Free help to people wanting to avoid the contractual requirements of social media sites"  ?
<Myrtti> I don't want to sound sceptical and be the one to ruin the party but I personally wouldn't give my phone number even if I had a burner sim that I don't use. Even the free sims you get from three require your name and address and so they are traceable to the person who ordered them, with somewhat non-zero possibility the person might become liable for whatever the Twitter account is used for...
<ali1234> Myrtti: right
 * CupofPSB is getting flack from all sides, now . Woe is me on my tiny island.
<awilkins> We'll send you a tiny violin to go with it.
<CupofPSB> Don't any of you have a throw away sim-card spare ?
<CupofPSB> Myrtti: It's called trust amongst UK users .. oh wait I forget that doesn't mean beans on  this channel.
<bashrc_> you now need a phone to get a twitter account?
<ali1234> oh hey guess what, i just signed up for twitter and i didn;t need to enter a phone number
<CupofPSB> really ?
<CupofPSB> hang-on.
<ali1234> yes really
<CupofPSB> all I see is this : In order to protect the security of your account, please add your phone number. We will send you a text message with a verification code that you'll need to enter on the next screen.
<Myrtti> I love you all and all that, but I still wouldn't give a person the nickname I don't recognise or haven't met in real life more personal information than what they've managed to gather from me during the years we've chatted
 * foobarry confused
<awilkins> I just got "
<awilkins> Signup Denied
<awilkins> We cannot create a new account from this computer. Download the free Twitter app for your Android or iPhone, and start using Twitter on your phone instead.
<awilkins> "
<Myrtti> but I've got more reasons to be sceptical and paranoid than most people on this channel
<awilkins> That was from a Private Browsing session on Firefox
<foobarry> you can't create a twitter account without a phone number?
<ali1234> foobarry: no, you can
<foobarry> hence confused
<CupofPSB> Tell me how ?
<foobarry> are you trying from the app?
<CupofPSB> no.
<foobarry> or frmo a desktop PC on the net
<CupofPSB> chromebook.
<ali1234> go to twitter.com and click on sign in, the click on sign up
<Myrtti> I just created a twitter account without phone number as well.
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if twitter banned the entire isle of man for "trolling"
<foobarry> isle of man, population:7
<ali1234> it probably only has 1 ip address
<CupofPSB> that's just mean.
<foobarry> whois
<foobarry> barry, barry's house, douglas
<foobarry> if you're not trolling then try using tor to signup
<ali1234> i very much doubt that will work
<ali1234> tor exit nodes are pretty easy to identify
<awilkins> I just got a failed signup from here in the UK
<awilkins> Not sure if it was because I used a private browsing session
<ali1234> probably
<awilkins> It said "This computer"
<awilkins> Does it from non-private session as well
<popey> side-note, Channel 4 On Demand refuses to let you play if you use chrome incognito mode
<popey> it detects it and says you have to use a proper session
<foobarry> 4od doesn't work on linux at all i thought
<awilkins> Yeah, it works
<foobarry> they fixed it again?
<awilkins> I think I had to install a deprecated library but it works
<awilkins> It's some library that's now actually a dummy package
<awilkins> You remove it and put the real one back and it works
<awilkins> http://blog.terranux.net/2014/04/how-to-get-4od-to-work-on-ubuntu-14-04-trusty/
<awilkins> That's it
<awilkins> Apparently also fixes Google Play rented movies...
<awilkins> You'd think they would work on Linux though, since there is Chromebook
<foobarry> i used this some time ago but it broke for a while and i gave up
<awilkins> Ah, not used it in a while
<awilkins> Not since Utopia finished
<CupofPSB> I've called the operator &b they cant help either.
<foobarry> i haven't tried to use in yonks
<CupofPSB> I'd better go .. or else the wrathe of Ubuntu-uk be apon me.
<foobarry> this is what i see
<foobarry> CupofPSB: http://i.imgur.com/Wn1MBrK.png
<CupofPSB> foobarry: Yeah, and after that this what I see http://imgur.com/yPc57Iu
<awilkins> So just to check - you're not putting the "0" in front of your number?
<CupofPSB> I'm not.
<CupofPSB> my phones going nuts telling me I've topped up twice in the last 15 minutes when I haven't.
<CupofPSB> I guess I could try with a landline and a public phonebox.
<CupofPSB> right thats it .. I quit thee shennagigens .. I'll try again soon.
<CupofPSB> **these
<diddledan> anyone maintaining ssl-secured systems need to be aware that there's going to be a high-severity patch released later today
<foobarry> oh yes
<foobarry> need to fix my puppet issue before then
<diddledan> puppet ftl?
 * bashrc_ stands by for ssl sky to fall down
<foobarry> its high not critical
<bashrc_> release the headless chickens!
<foobarry> then eat them
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: The HAL muck is some Flash dependency IIRC.
<awilkins> Yeah, the DRM depends on it
<TwistedLucidity> Didn't know Google Play was also affected (not that I use it).
<awilkins> Presumably it gives Flash some intestinal-level access to your hardware
<TwistedLucidity> Got Blinkbox to work, not that that is of any real use either
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I'm guessing that Chrome on Linux probably works ok without it
<awilkins> FOr Google Play anyways
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, they have a supported Flash doofer
<awilkins> Netflix / Chrome works fine here
<awilkins> They even took off the bit that checks your user-agent
<awilkins> Linux is now officially OK with Netflix
<TwistedLucidity> Yay!
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe I'll ditch the TV package and look into Netflix.
<foobarry> netflix doesn't have much "good stuff"
<foobarry> in before !best
<TwistedLucidity> No current shows?
<foobarry> probably. but the marketing makes out they have all the good stuff
<awilkins> I dunno, it has more than I can consume that is good, pretty much
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...I'd miss out on the motorcycle racing I guess.
<awilkins> Still not started on House of Cards s3
<awilkins> Just go stay with CupofPSB and catch the TT races
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: With who/what?
<awilkins> Oh, were'nt you here? Person from the Isle of Man wanting one of us to lend them a SIM card so they can sign up for a Twitter account
<TwistedLucidity> That sounds...weird
<TwistedLucidity> The Linux Bierwanderung might be going to the IoM in a year or so.
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: It's always lunchtime somewhere
<diddledan> I want to go to the cafe and get burger-n-chippies
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Are you an adult?
<diddledan> they do pretty decent chips
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: debatable
<CupofPSB> Just so you know, it didn't work on a landline either. Must be smthing to-do with the fact I'm on a mobile chromebook or something. I give up.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Well if you are, you can go and get what you damned well want, when you damned well want it.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: but. conventions
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Rebel life 4 eva!
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> CupofPSB: try TOR next
<foobarry> exit into UK or USA
<CupofPSB> TwistedLucidity: Are you from Cork ?
<CupofPSB> how do I try tor on a chromebook ?#
<TwistedLucidity> CupofPSB: Not me
<foobarry> are you at work/office/school?
<foobarry> use chromebook to email a friend to do it
<CupofPSB> couch/office
<foobarry> and send u the accoutn and password
<TwistedLucidity> Tor? Sign-up for a free VPN account with a UK exit. Try that.
<CupofPSB> "friend" I thought there was only 7 of us here ?
<foobarry> aren't three of them your uncle?
<CupofPSB> no they're wombles.
<foobarry> the other are mark shuttleworth and isleofmandan
<foobarry> and douglas
<CupofPSB> what about gordon ramsey ?
<foobarry> him too?
<CupofPSB> or beckii cruel ?
<foobarry> no women allowed
<TwistedLucidity> CupofPSB: Ah...so the text with the magic code hasn't arrived. Phone a friend, ask them to text you. If you get no text, you have a problem beyond Twitter
<foobarry> i have a new idea
<CupofPSB> Sir Norman's no-longer with us :(
<foobarry> get all the eejits like ramsay and russell brand and send them over
<CupofPSB> they dont have bitcoin.
<CupofPSB> We're a Bitcoin Utopia here.
<CupofPSB> Bought a pint with btc on Paddys day, I did.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Caramel Day! :-D
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: I strongly suspect you are making these up
 * Myrtti goes to fix herself a Moomin mug of chocolate and caramel coffee
<CupofPSB> He does my 'ed with them, anyway.
<CupofPSB> **'ed in ..
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, I only wish I were that creative. ;)
<CupofPSB> Did you know he says ..
<JamesTait> Myrtti, that sounds like an excellent idea!
<CupofPSB> No, & I don't want to know, you said the same last year, and the year before like some infurnal time-warp.
<CupofPSB> Why not have a look at , wait for it .. twitter .. & say TIL the GNU Manifesto is 30 years old , or something remotely linuxey.
<CupofPSB> he then fades into the ether and never replies for days.
<diddledan> Myrtti: moomin!
<diddledan> I used to love the moomins
<Myrtti> diddledan: hold on...
 * diddledan grabs something sturdy and holds on
<Myrtti> there, taken some photos...
<ali1234> 21922 al        20   0 13.108g 0.012t   5984 S  24.6 75.6   5:45.83 gimp-2.8
<CupofPSB> sudo apt-get install tor-browser, me thinks.
<Myrtti> diddledan: https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/16836308376/
<diddledan> wow, that's an impressive collection of moomins! :-)
<Myrtti> they're collector items, all of them
<diddledan> better not drop any
<Myrtti> starting price is around 15â¬, but the prices go up
<CupofPSB> moomins crumbs ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utXbpKrWRBs
<CupofPSB> thant music .. sounds like netball .. https://youtu.be/utXbpKrWRBs?t=4m26s
<Myrtti> ha. The one I'm drinking my coffee right now is about 60â¬
<CupofPSB> *that
<Myrtti> (on street market)
<awilkins> Moomin Mamma!
<MooDoo> how to embarres yourself seeing as you've been using ubuntu for years episode #32312 - Learning the command sudo -i
<Myrtti> MooDoo: tsk :-D
<MooDoo> Myrtti: i'm hanging my head in shame
<foobarry> so many people still do sudo su -
<foobarry> or variations thereof
<Myrtti> well, if it makes you feel any better, it took me a few years to realise you get out of manpages with q
<MooDoo> :D
<foobarry> what did you do Myrtti ?
<foobarry> before q
<MooDoo> i ctrl - c
<MooDoo> lol
<foobarry> some cool bash commands
<Myrtti> reconnected the ssh session
<foobarry> do ls /home
<foobarry> then do df !$
<Myrtti> and it also took a good while to learn to search in manpages
<foobarry> also :p on the end of a history command recalls it but doesn't run it e.g. !!:p
<foobarry> also ^/home^/tmp is a good bash switcher
<foobarry> i also have a selective up-arrow history search
<foobarry> type ssh up arrow only shows the history of commands starting with ssh
<JamesTait> foobarry, how did you achieve that? I always do ctrl-r<start_of_command>
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/59846/bash-history-search-partial-up-arrow
<foobarry> requires an .inputrc file with 2 lines in it
<foobarry> much more elegant than ctrl-r
<davmor2> JamesTait: now that is a day I 100% get behind :)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQ5Yw72xtA
<JamesTait> Thanks, foobarry!
<foobarry> np
<foobarry> do you also know the HISTIGNORE variable?
<davmor2> JamesTait: or history | grep <part of the command you remember>   and then !<number of the history record>
<JamesTait> foobarry, I knew about that, but I don't use it - I just prefix the command with a space.
<davmor2> it's the old fashioned version of ctrl-r
<foobarry> yep, my history contains ls:[bf]g:exit:pwd:history
<CupofPSB> Everest . fav. music video at the moment .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhgfzEm3CWU
<foobarry> google news is showing the same thumbnail for every story from the independent
<foobarry> story about the eclipse shows man in front of flaming car
<foobarry> story about vikings too
<foobarry> and spiders
<foobarry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/dinosaurs/11482314/Giant-walking-crocodile-terrorised-Earth-before-dinosaurs.html
<foobarry> there's no way this thing could walk. centre of gravity all wrong
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and MooDoo
<bigcalm> And my greeting was valid for the UK for a change
<foobarry> check google for ssl news
<foobarry> refresh
<foobarry> wait and repeat
<czajkowski> Folks London free event taking place on Monday if you're interested by Waterloo.
<czajkowski> http://www.cvent.com/events/couchbase-live-europe-re-platforming-for-big-data-success/agenda-bf96572b15d841a692ee8a164370384d.aspx
<diplo> Anyone here use Hyper V ?
<diplo> Got a customer who has a setup, we have a linux guest on there that needs to fax out
<diplo> Hyper V doesn't seem to detect serial ports or usb ports
<awilkins> email to fax gateway?
<diplo> heh that was my suggestion awilkins :)
<diplo> I know I'll be asked to make sure there is no way of keeping it in house before we have to do that
<diddledan> diplo: I don't believe hyper-v exposes any external devices
<awilkins> USB over TCP/IP seems to be their response to that conundrum
<diddledan> ew
<zmoylan-pi> wonders how many packets a usb cable takes.... :-)
<awilkins> "ew" is what I think about Fax in this day and age :{
<bigcalm> Well, you have ethernet and wifi USB devices...
<diplo> awilkins: I totally agree! Why do we need fax!!! But our customers are set on it
<diplo> And yeah, seems a fwe solutions for tcp/ip :/
<awilkins> AnywhereUSB 2-port USB over TCP/IP hub - â¬256,60
<diddledan> USB2 is rated at 480Mbps so USB-ethernet can only really do 100Mbps i.e. 100Base-T
<diddledan> USB3 however can do giganet
<awilkins> FAx machines however, can only do 33kbit/s
<diddledan> awilkins: lol
<diddledan> speedy
<diplo> We use JetStreams ( Made by Perle ) and I've been trying to get their Trueport software to pass through /dev/tpm0 to the jetstream with a modem connected on that port
<diplo> But logging sucks :/
<diplo> And documentation is even worse!
<diplo> And this is all remote, so it's proving frustrating!
<diddledan> diplo: isn't /dev/tpm0 something to do with trusted platform modules?
<diplo> I've told my boss to say tough, you wanted HyperV, you fix your issues!
<diplo> Not in this case no
<diddledan> >.<
<diplo> Right, given him his options and said I think we ought to just pass it back to them as they were so sure they wanted HyperV they can fix the issue and give us the details :)
<diplo> Their IT Manager is the most useless person I've ever spoke to!
<zmoylan-pi> well managers usually are :-)
<foobarry> :-o
<diplo> I don't know, I was ok :)
<diplo> He basically is a desk jockey with the title. Has no real understanding of anything technical
<foobarry> i wonder about those people
<foobarry> how was work today?
<diplo> It's frustrating as hell
<foobarry> this morning i already discovered the fix for a puppet problem and rolled out the change
<foobarry> what is the definition of success?
<zmoylan-pi> non failure
<foobarry> something that helps other and makes you feel happy at the same time
<diplo> foobarry: Tried Ansible as well ?
<diplo> Or stuck with puppet?
<foobarry> fixed the problem
<foobarry> worked around it actually
<foobarry> fix will come later
<foobarry> or at least permanent
<foobarry> if you have no mission in your work then most of life sucks
<foobarry> and is aimless
<zmoylan-pi> so... like a java developer then? :-)
<diddledan> right, I'm off to get my burger
<popey> mmmm burger
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<foobarry> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/ always reminds me of the scene in north by north west
<foobarry> when the crop sprayer plane attacks the guy
<foobarry> http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html needs unicode
<foobarry> top random quote...
<davmor2> czajkowski: linkdin lies you know perl pfff ;)
<czajkowski> linkedin is a tad odd
<czajkowski> a bit like yoruself davmor2 :p
<awilkins> People I don't know on LinkedIn are endorsing me in the hope I'll endorse them back
<awilkins> I never endorse. I find it impossible to get far enough into someones head to know if they're competent at *anything*
<ali1234> i've got this one friend who keeps on endorsing me for things he knows that i know nothing about
<ali1234> like "microsoft office" for example
<foobarry> i guess you can endorse for anything
<foobarry> "eating loudly" "farting in the lift"
<awilkins> I'd be happier with a web of trust
<awilkins> Sign endorsements with your private key
<awilkins> And have endorsements that say you know what you're talking about re: particular things
<awilkins> Signed by others
<ali1234> that's pretty much what linked in does, except it isn't decentralized like a WoT
<awilkins> So you could have one root master for each subject. Like if it's crypto, you can trace your endorsement all the way back to Bruce Schneir
<foobarry> he is not trustworthy
<foobarry> but i get your point
<ali1234> yeah you can do that with linked-in
<foobarry> work is so hard when your kids/dog got you up 3x last night
<foobarry> quality sleep is essential for thinking
<foobarry> https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20150319.txt
<foobarry> meh
<bashrc_> sky remains in place
<foobarry> google has killed quickoffice
 * bashrc_ has never heard of quickoffice
<foobarry> adnroid app
<directhex> quickoffice and also gdocs was dumb
<diddledan> foobarry: wow, that's a lot of issues
<diddledan> now I'm just waiting on gentoo to package it
<foobarry> oh, i thought only top issue was the new one
<diddledan> foobarry: nah, they're all patched today
<foobarry> i thought the second one we did last month or so
<diddledan> yes and no, they've reclassified it and re-announced that particular one
<diddledan> i.e. they've changed it from "patch if you fancy, to OMG PATCH NOW!"
 * diddledan plops dotnetconf on in the background
<foobarry> where's MartijnVdS ?
<diddledan> pas didÃ©e
<diddledan> d'idÃ©e**
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> not idea?
<diddledan> no idea ^^
<foobarry> haven't seen him for a while
<diddledan> literally it's "not of idea"
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/KOQZe3D.jpg
<diddledan> dogecoin?
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> i imagine thats his wallpeper
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> directhex: they want you to just use drive
<diddledan> to be fair to google re:quickoffice they purchased quickoffice after they'd been running drive/docs for some time - the acquisition was designed to bolster their interoperability with msoffice formats and the like. I believe it's always been planned that the separate quickopffice would be phased-out in favour of the gdocs
<diddledan> i.e. they've probably got to the point where they've ported everything useful from quickoffice into gdocs now
<Myrtti> yup
<foobarry> but my phone has it baked in
<foobarry> more motorolas fault but..
<diddledan> grr @ bundled apps
<Myrtti> install google drive apps and rejoice
<foobarry> use extra MB
<foobarry> i made a terrible mistake buying my phone
<foobarry> for extra Â£20 i could have had extra 8gb storage
<foobarry> i didn't know new android suicked space
<diddledan> you may find if motorola issue any future androids for your device that they remove it then
<popey> there's apps you can install which let you rip out default apps I believe
<directhex> diddledan: thanks for the heads up
<foobarry> if you have root?
<diddledan> root all the things
<diddledan> directhex: openssl?
<directhex> dotnetconf
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> it's day 2 of 2
<directhex> miguel's speech tho
<diddledan> yeah, that'll be fun
<diddledan> I like miguel - he's a nice dude
<shauno> well this is driving me nuts.  wlan0 only seems to work if I ifdown & ifup it after each boot :/
<diddledan> shauno: HAHA
 * diddledan points and laughs
<directhex> and i spy him in yesterday's "The .NET Voyage into Open Source" talk thumbnail
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> that was an interesting vid
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> "just when we've got everything planned, miguel shows up"
 * bashrc_ doesn't care much about .NET
<popey> https://github.com/nathan/pixie is neat
<bashrc_> vi /src/workspace/jetson-be/baserock/baserock/definitions/systems/cross-bootstrap-system-armv7bhf-jetson.morph
<bashrc_> I guess the history struck again
<SuperEngineer> history! don't talk to me about history... I could go for for centuries about history!  :D
<bashrc_> I should see if I can find a way to turn off history in irssi
<foobarry> did you see that app http://www.projectpixelpress.com/#the-magic
<bashrc_> otherwise if I hit the trackpad I sometimes end up posting random stuff from the command history
<awilkins>  "The .NET Voyage into Open Source" ???
<awilkins> Thought that said Open Space for a moment
<bashrc_> mono, presumably
<awilkins> They're actually open-sourcing the core libraries I think
<awilkins> MS are
<bashrc_> yes I think so
<awilkins> "At present, only a few .NET Core libraries are available on GitHub. The rest of the libraries, including the base runtime, will be added in the coming months."
<bashrc_> microsoft appear to be generally open sourcing more stuff. The old guard must be fading
<directhex> MS have been releasing libraries under Apache2 for years. The new wave is releasing the low-level stuff (not the leaf libs) under MIT
<directhex> including their new runtime
<diddledan> also their attitude is somewhat different comparing to the codeplex "throw it over the wall and forget" method - they're actually doing everything in the open now and accepting community contribution in every step of the process of building the system
<diddledan> i.e. they're actively participating with community discussion over fundamental design concepts
<directhex> not everything is accepting contributions, but yeah, some teams are trying & learning
<Myrtti> WHAT IS THIS MAGIC
<diddledan> wait, magic?
<Myrtti> simple scan can now see a scanner shared to the network?
<diddledan> that's not magic, that's voodoo
<Myrtti> oh absolutely!
<diddledan> sacrifice a first-born
<diddledan> um num shavai
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk2E1CoGe98
<diddledan> there's more gore in that clip than they usually show on the telly
<diddledan> openssl patch for ubuntu is live
<Myrtti> there, scanned the marriage certificate
<diddledan> yey
<directhex> i have some photocopies of mine
<directhex> it's in spanish!
<Myrtti> I've got TWO certificates.
<diddledan> wha?
<Myrtti> one is in Finnish ^___^
<diddledan> Myrtti: does that mean you're marrying twice?
<Myrtti> no.
<Myrtti> the other is in English. Same marriage.
<diddledan> aah, I wondered if maybe one set of vows in britain and another set in finland
<Myrtti> well, we do actually have a certificate from the secular non-legal ceremony, too.
<bashrc_> can you set your vows in the blockchain?
<diddledan> although I'm wondering if that would make you a polygamist. with only one hubby.
<Myrtti> since the Finnish Humanists can't officiate
<diddledan> is it still polygamy when both your husbands are the same dude?
<diddledan> hmm, philosophy!
 * diddledan fixes bugfix's bugs
<bugfix> :-)
<bugfix> hi
<diddledan> ello
<bugfix> all right?
<diddledan> not bad
<zertyui> hi
<zertyui> how to identify swap utilisatioN ?
<popey> vmstat 5
<popey> look at swap si/so (swap in/out)
<intrbiz> zertyui: free -m
<Azelphur> ali1234: question you probably know the answer to, with some fancy wiring, can you charge a phone while having a USB drive plugged in?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> just get a big power supply
<awilkins> Just need to pull the +5V rail up
<ali1234> phone will use 2A and a USB drive will use 1A
<Azelphur> why would it need to be any bigger than a standard USB charger?
<Azelphur> I see
<bigcalm> With multiple monitors in use, how do I move the launcher to a different screen?
<awilkins> Would a flash drive really use 1A?
<ali1234> there is no "standard" USB charger
<ali1234> no a flash drive won't. a hard drive will though
<awilkins> Since a standard USB port only provides 500mA ?
<popey> can you not use one of those y adapter usb OTG cables?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Galaxyworld%C2%AE-Female-Micro-Samsung-Galaxy-Black/dp/B00KZHA094
<popey> like that
<Azelphur> popey: nice find, if so that's exactly what I want
<popey> depends on the phone, dunno if they all support them
<Azelphur> popey: description: "PLEASE NOTE: This cable can't charge your phone or tablet"
<Azelphur> :<
<popey> awww, i think some do
<bigcalm> Found it: "Launcher placement" in Screen Display
<intrbiz> bigcalm: can't you just drag the launcher to where you want it?
<popey> no. you set the location in the display control thing
<shauno> is there a sensible way to zero-pad numbers in bash?  It seems like it should be a whole lot easier than I'm making it ..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: printf '%06d' 31337
<diddledan> printf in bash?
<MartijnVdS> coreutils: /usr/bin/printf
<diddledan> ooh
<MartijnVdS> it's also a bash builtin
<shauno> printthat's my current method, and it's breaking way too often :/
<shauno> some of the numbers I start with are already zero-padded, some aren't.
<shauno> so printf "%02d" 9 gives me 09.  but printf "%02d" 09 gives me 00 (09 bad octal)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: even in quotes?
<shauno> seems so
<MartijnVdS> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/70966/how-to-suppress-bash-octal-number-interpretation-to-be-interpreted-as-decimal
<shauno> mh.  I'll take that as no then :)
<BaNaer_Liffan> Is there anyone who could help with a problem installing a CCD astrophotography camera in Ubuntu?
<daftykins> wow 5 whole minutes
<diddledan> a what in the whatnow?!
<daftykins> ikr
<daftykins> also declaring a camera uses a CCD, not quite relevant
<diddledan> that's a seriously niche market
<diddledan> maybe he's just got the chip
<diddledan> I'm guessing he's trying to get ready for the clips tomorrow
<BaNaer_Liffan> sorry, got disconnected so didn;t see if any reply
<diddledan> BaNaer_Liffan: you didn't miss anything
<BaNaer_Liffan> ah, k :)
<BaNaer_Liffan> problem is, ubuntu 14.10 utopic sees the camera (lsusb shows it as well as dmesg) but cheese etc can't
<diddledan> lol @ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=923903510963109&t=dXNlcmlkPTQ3OTk0MzA1LGVtYWlsaWQ9OTYwNw==
<diddledan> isn't cheese for video input?
<diddledan> i.e. webcam
<daftykins> i'm under that impression
<diddledan> daftykins: there's me and you currently awake. we both have windows on our desktops. this is gonna be an interesting scencario of the blind leading the blind.
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> does dmesg have any messages about /dev/video* or v4l ?
<daftykins> and shauno in OS X possibly? :>
<diddledan> lol, yup[
<diddledan> so out of all the people who might be active BaNaer_Liffan has managed to get the time when all of them are non-natives
<shauno> O:-)
<daftykins> diddledan: it's 10pm, we're running Windows in a Linux channel and we're wearing sunglasses at night. Let's do this.
<daftykins> </poor Blues Brothers paraphrase>
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> oh nevermind
<shauno> well, I know quite genericly that the usb messages are a bit misleading.  it'll tell you there's a new device, it might even tell you what it's called.  it's all terribly optimistic, but if it's not followed by a line or two of a driver getting attached to it, it's useless
<daftykins> i think this fellow has more major issues than cameras
<diddledan> shauno: it's like "oh! it's a unix system. I know this!.. *clicky draggy 3d map*"
<shauno> so "ooh there's my usb device" is a nice start, it finds you the right place in the log.  but the interesting bit is "what happens next"
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> oh did i tell you guys about that drive i recovered data from, then put on a new 1TB WD external for some fellow?
<shauno> apparently that 3d mappy thing actually existed!  (for limited values of 'existed')
<diddledan> daftykins: I think his dongle keeps flopping-out
<diddledan> shauno: yeah
<daftykins> turned out it didn't work on his macs, so i got it back and formatted it with 1,024KB cluster exFAT this time, instead of the Windows 7 default which i think was 4KB... now it mounts fine
<diddledan> shauno: I even downloaded it once
<daftykins> actually used the macbook i have to test it too
<diddledan> shauno: I believe it was for irix?
<diddledan> certainly a rather rare unix even in 1995
<daftykins> if Hackers taught me anything, it's hang out at places where people skateboard indoors - and always check the 'Trash'
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsn
<shauno> BaNaer_Liffan: where it shows up in dmesg, can you share those lines and any after it that look even remotely relevant?  pref. using eg http://paste.ubuntu.com/  (so it's still there when you drop off again lol)
<diddledan> daftykins: that and hack the planet
<daftykins> yep
<BaNaer_Liffan> sure, 1 second
<diddledan> here ya go shauno : https://web.archive.org/web/20070409024417/http://www.sgi.com/fun/freeware/3d_navigator.html
<diddledan> I'm not sure the actual binaries are archived anywhere tho :-(
<shauno> oh I'm sure they're out there somewhere.  where there's a beard there's a way
<diddledan> wow, I'm wrong: the ftp link on that archived webpage is actually still active: ftp://ftp.sgi.com/sgi/fsn
<shauno> I'm not sure I have anything that runs irix :)
<shauno> I did have a noodle around with v7 though.  that was interesting.  kinda felt like a blind guy with his cane tucked into his sock.
<shauno> speaking of noodles, flatpack hell today.  I went from "I actually quite like flatpack, it's like lego for hammers" to "I wonder if they have a phone number so I can hurl abuse at them" rather sharpish
<daftykins> wayback machine stores 9PB of data as of December 1st 2014
<shauno> in a church :)
<daftykins> what in a church? 0o
<daftykins> also mmm noodles in dark soy sauce
<shauno> their headquarters is in a ex-church.  it's quite a fun asthetic
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> ah no 50PB used
<daftykins> to include all the rest
<diddledan> daftykins: not much difference then
<daftykins> 20,000 spinning rust disks
<diddledan> I'd hope they have some redundancy
<diddledan> 1 out of 20k discs go wonky and the entire archive is gone
<daftykins> ;)
<shauno> I think they have 4 physical locations now?
<shauno> and one's in the alexandria library, just for kicks and giggles
<daftykins> oh lets chime in on the sector size migration i kicked off on the 24TB RAID6 and see how far it's gotten
<diddledan> they're probably using some form of object storage I would hope
<daftykins> 4% since last night... hmmm
<shauno> this is fun; https://vimeo.com/59207751
<shauno> about 45s in you can see him sitting on pews with blinkenlichten in the background. which imho is awesome
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> my friends just got their application approved to run their art gallery in a chapel
<daftykins> it hadn't been used for years
<daftykins> thirteen whole minutes
<diddledan> over 100% efficient?
<shauno> in theory.  if they're using the heat to heat things they'd heat anyway
<daftykins> i wonder if this migration is even worth it, perhaps i should nuke the whole thing and recreate it as 64KB... then go EXT4 as well :)
<shauno> it's a little more fluffy if they're heating things they wouldn't heat if they didn't have spare heat to dispose of ;)
<daftykins> being able to guarantee you can get that heat out and into something else must be a challenge o0
<shauno> why?  that's what everyone else does :)
<shauno> well, most.  capture/contain/transfer is quite normal.  it's hippiest like google and facebook who've mucked it all up
<daftykins> *shrug*
<shauno> hm, how silly would I look if I put a ssd on my pi
<daftykins> how does that interface 0o
<shauno> well, everything's on a usb hdd atm.  so pretty much the same :)
<daftykins> allow me to paste one of the things from #kodi which makes me cringe
<daftykins> < tanuki> How difficult is it to stream output from Kodi on Linux to a Chromecast?
<daftykins> BaNaer_Liffan: bad connection there 0o
<BaNaer_Liffan> idle timeout I think
<daftykins> what on? IRC servers don't kick for doing nothing :D
<BaNaer_Liffan> lol, think Chatzilla gets bored and looks for something to do :D
<daftykins> :<
<Azelphur> Is there any way for me to install abiword without pulling in a desktop?
<Azelphur> I only want to use abiword from the command line, on a server
<m0nkey_> Azelphur, considering it doesn't need a full desktop, only X server, you should be able to just go 'apt-get install abiword'
<m0nkey_> run: apt-cache show abiword   .. to see depends on
<Azelphur> ah I see, I don't even really want X but I guess I'll take it
<m0nkey_> X isn't a dependency
<m0nkey_> dbus, glib, gcc, crypt, gtk, jpegm etc..
<m0nkey_> no x11
<Azelphur> ah ok :)
<Azelphur> cool, guess I was expecting it to pull half the planet in and was wrong
<m0nkey_> run the apt-cache show command on it, you'll see
<Azelphur> yup, I see :)
<diddledan> libreplanet at the weekend on livestream
<diddledan> ref: https://libreplanet.org/2015/
<diddledan> get to see all the greybeards
<diddledan> i.e. dickie stallman
<diddledan> I think it's nearly coma-time
<daftykins> me too, just did the bins, washing up and unloaded the dishwasher \o/
<shauno> ooh, bins!
<daftykins> you too? :)
<shauno> lol, yes.  they send me texts, but they send them so early in the day that I've forgot by time it matters
<daftykins> i get stroppy with family for trying to organise things weeks in advance, for similar reasons
<shauno> they like to send me little guilt-trips telling me I'm not recycling as much as everyone else too :/
<shauno> (which is silly.  it should be done as a percentage, not as a weight)
<daftykins> wow they actually rate per household 0o
<shauno> they mail me pdfs with graphs and everything.  it's hilarious
<daftykins> we only recently had kerbside recycling launched, but rather than decode all the rules i just cycle to the dropoff with it :D
<shauno> they weigh everything here because that's how it's billed.  you pay more per kg for gray waste than green waste (and nada for brown waste)
<daftykins> i don't even know what grey and brown would be o0
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-20
<daftykins> beware: i've had a case of the dumbs this evening
<shauno> green's recycling, brown is compostable
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> oh it took me a while to figure out too
<shauno> when I left the UK, we'd only just started getting a wee recycling crate to shove out with the bin
<shauno> now I get here and everyone has 3 wheelie bins
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> where did you hail from in Blighty?
<shauno> everywhere :)
<shauno> I was in the north-west last
<shauno> and scotland before that, and weymouth before that, and oxford before that ..
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> i'm not sure i could cope with that much movement
<daftykins> i get lost sitting in the other armchair ;)
<shauno> I can't get used to staying still :)
<shauno> I've been in Ireland 8 years now, and it feels a few years longer than I oughta
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> just the other day my main client was telling me Japan was practically the only place he'd worked that he could've stayed permanently
<daftykins> these fancy jet setters ;)
<shauno> heh, haven't been that far.  the states felt alien enough
<shauno> although I'm working on Slovakia next.  that should be some shock
<daftykins> ooh-err, i think my friend from Uni who comes from Greece lives there nowadays
<daftykins> escaped before the economy did its' thing
<shauno> heh, smart move
<shauno> I managed to show up for this one just as it started falling over.  fantastic timing
<daftykins> surely the Irish change thing hasn't been brewing for your whole 8 year stint?
<shauno> not far off.  I got here in 2006, and it all fell over in 2008
<daftykins> i was in Uni then :)
<shauno> curious, did you stay on the Island for uni too?
<daftykins> there aren't any nah, we have to go abroad
<daftykins> where hilariously we pay the rates of international students :)
<shauno> ah
<shauno> I've no idea if that's a good thing or not :)
<daftykins> well, if we take the case of when i was there, tuition fees were probably Â£1,500 for a true Brit? something like that anyway
<daftykins> for us, despite carrying a British passport, Â£7,500+
<daftykins> (per year)
<daftykins> so our government has to subsidise students
<shauno> ouch
<daftykins> in some cases, like an ex of mine, they get housed with the asian students in the foreign halls \o/
<daftykins> (that was up in Reading)
<daftykins> some people were trying to get a local Uni off the ground recently but it totally flopped
<shauno> I'd think living with the foreigners would be more fun?
<shauno> I accidentally ended up with a bunch of erasmus students here for a year, and it was a riot
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oh they're cool, i did that in my final year. had two french lasses and two german lasses living in my place
<daftykins> but the asian ones group together as apparently they don't learn spoken English so much
<shauno> not always a good thing.  I remember once meeting them coming home from town, as I was walking to work
<daftykins> so it's very much us-versus-them
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> that good a night O_O
<daftykins> why is there a person in #ubuntu trying to get a 56k modem working O_O
<shauno> internal or external?
<shauno> I don't think much has really changed there.  the instructions from 20 years ago still hold true.  get one that uses a serial cable.
<daftykins> no clue there
<daftykins> :D i recall my little blue Lasat
<shauno> well there's tonight's pointless project.  I've got mpd playing all my old chiptunes :)
<daftykins> this one is apparently trying to set up a Sega Dreamcast dial in server
<shauno> ahhh
<daftykins> < Dan123_> Can anyone help me install/configure kernel-source so i can build the conexant
<daftykins>                  dgcmodem driver modules?
<shauno> hm, it doesn't seem too easy to divorce the dreamcast from its modem :/
<shauno> on the amiga we do this without the modems, just stick ppp on each end of a serial cable
<shauno> his isn't going to be much different, except he has a softmodem.  and I doubt support for those has really improved in the 15-20 years since people stopped using them
<shauno> it is, and always has been, "go to linmodems.org and don't come back" :(
<daftykins> in this case a remark about the level of support from #ubuntu was uttered before leaving
<daftykins> i do so enjoy the entitled :D
<shauno> heh
<shauno> from a quick google, the concensus seems to be "why?!".  none of the online services for it have lasted this long
<daftykins> i remember someone in another channel posting a site that has an own-version service alternative
<directhex> shauno: it's totally easy. the modem unplugs. it's just the ethernet replacement is super rare
<daftykins> but yeah sadly that's my main thought too, 'just why!?'
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast_Broadband_Adapter_and_Modem_Adapter#Broadband_Adapter
<shauno> well, for some things it can be neat.  eg, for the amiga, just being able to reach aminet and/or an ftp server is a godsend
<shauno> but with a console, if the game servers are gone, they're gone
<shauno> daftykins: okay, my turn for "what are they thinking?".  someone saying node is too basic, and written a replacement, with git&ssh integration, in node.js ...
<daftykins> that flies over me i'm afraid, i'm no dev type so i've only seen the name 'node.js' but don't know what it is or does
<shauno> it was javascript server-side
<shauno> and then people started writing standalone apps in it
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> ah, another night of failing to sleep early :D
<safiyyah> Hi guys, is anyone up? I am trying to make a start up disk with an iso image but it's for windows not ubuntu. I tried the startup disk creator and apparently that is only for ubuntu files.
<safiyyah> I also tried isomaster, can't figure out how to actually get the image on the USB stick
<m0nkey_> unetbootin
<m0nkey_> you can use a window ISO and write to USB
<safiyyah> m0nkey_,  That is what I thought but it refuses to accept it, once I select the file it acts like nothing was selected
<safiyyah> m0nkey_, I am installing your suggested app
<safiyyah> just a sec
<daftykins> i heard you have to cheat unetbootin by some means, probably some guides online
<daftykins> but safiyyah, why Windows :P
<crepple> I've seen this mentioned in other channels http://en.congelli.eu/prog_info_winusb.html but never used it
<safiyyah_> m0nkey_,  thank you! am good, got it going!
<crepple> See that's all I do - hang around on IRC soaking up trivia :)
<safiyyah_> crepple,  lol
<daftykins> it's never the right kind to win at the pub quiz, though :(
<shauno> we'd make a really, really unpopular pub quiz
<safiyyah_> night all, be back if I get stuck again :)
<daftykins> safiyyah_: go to sleep you have to do the school run! :P
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgeYScYe8wI
<m0nkey_> ^-- how to play chess properly
<crepple> I have to sleep - I should have hours ago really (in the UK)
<safiyyah_> daftykins, inset day tomorrow, they are off but am working from 8:30am
<daftykins> crepple: same!
<daftykins> safiyyah_: yeouch!
<daftykins> g'night everyone \o
<crepple> Night
<m0nkey_> Can somebody wire me $300 CAD?
<shauno> why fore?
<m0nkey_> Need to pony up the cash to get a CPU
<m0nkey_> I also need a trip down memory lane
<m0nkey_> Trying to track down a Red Hat Linux 2.0 ISO
<m0nkey_> Not RHEL
<shauno> ooh ouch
<mapp> hey night people
<mapp> sup
<mapp> why m0nkey_|away
 * zmoylan-pi is pondering where to view the eclipse from...
<mapp> did you watch ep3 diddledan
<mapp> im gonna go to sleep after ep3 of csi cyber
<mapp> mabe during..;D
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning..Or maybe goodnight, if it goes dark, that tells me its bedtime
<MooDoo> still a while to go yes, well 20 mins if you're here where i am
<DJones> Seems to be about 1/3 gone here in Wigan
<foobarry> really?
<foobarry> just clouds here
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty9SIeWiOx8 this is from a telescope ontop of a building at the uni in nottingham
<foobarry> oooh red
<foobarry> also the stream of comments on the right hand side are verbal diarrhoea
<directhex> internet comments, tbh
<MooDoo> yeah not reading the comments
<foobarry> its just raw sewage
<Myrtti> I'm just watching BBC.
<knightwise> stupid eclips hipe
<davmor2> Morning all, you bunch of technohippies, common on sing the song.....Freeeeeeeee ee your or  computer </free_nelson_mandela_spoof_song>
<TwistedLucidity> Dark out, innit?
<davmor2> nope nice and blue
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Since when did YouTube have that "chat" muck? Filled with dross, so it is.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Bit dark here, think the sun is burnt out. Wake up sheeple! We need to restart the sun!
<foobarry> probably just for live stream TwistedLucidity
<foobarry> my wife expecting me to be excited about the eclipse
<foobarry> but really its rather dull
<ali1234> that was boring
<ali1234> it didn't even get dark
<foobarry> its really gloomy here
<foobarry> all the office lights are off and it feels like 4pm in december
<TwistedLucidity> Very dull here. Last one I saw was a full eclipse - that was nifty.
<foobarry> we do have complete cloud cover too though
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe a project I should do one day is make an eclipse viewer-wotsit down the Hackspace.
<popey> for that "once in a lifetime" opportunity
<foobarry> some dudes in astro dept have solar telescopes
<foobarry> the office idiot just came in
<shauno> watching the sun on the internet so I don't have to go outside, may just define who I've become
<foobarry> "waited outside to see the eclipse but didn't see anything". we have 100% low cloud cover you tool
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Well...travelling North would have made it the second total eclipse I'd have seen. And making stuff is fun. Also, gets me out of the house which means dodging chores. :-)
<crepple> We saw a small change over in the West but no as much as I'd be impressed by
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> hello
<crepple> Morning
<directhex> is it? blurg
<foobarry> don't put talking toys in your daughters cot if you don't want to be woken at 4am by neep shouting NEEEP NEEEP when she rolls over
<bashrc_> morning sun worshippers
<directhex> foobarry: i like abney & teal
<foobarry> its in my top3 of contemporary progrs
<foobarry> shaun the sheep too
<directhex> it "feels" french to me. it's not, it's made by the tellytubbies people. but it just feels relaxing & french
<directhex> their island reminds me of central lyon. i don't know why
<awilkins> Talking toys are all evil at any time of day
<directhex> awilkins: my boy has a talking sarah. and a talking duck.
<directhex> well, quacking
<foobarry> its victoria park
<directhex> is it? huh
<foobarry> ewart stated in 2011 that the characters were all original constructs, designed in his sketchbooks, and the inspiration for the setting came from a visit to Victoria Park in East London
<directhex> there's inflatable walruses in victoria park?
<foobarry> tea drinking ones yes
<foobarry> i recognised it from teh first episode i saw, and was looking for my office
<directhex> there are good & bad shows on cbeebies. i like abney & teal
<directhex> and octonauts is mostly acceptable - it's much better when they're being sarcastic
<foobarry> altohugh the backdrop is not real
<foobarry> i've read the octonauts books
<directhex> mostly our small person watches octonauts & sarah&duck. that's it
<DJones> Why is there an idiot stood leaning against my office door telling me they've got blurred vision after spending 10 minutes looking at the eclipse with no protective glasses....Doh!
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> phew i'm not the only one then who everyone has a orange blob of a head then
<TwistedLucidity> Looking at an eclipse is not clever...
<diplo> directhex / foobarry : Octonauts were great, unfortunately my kids are growing up and seem to enjoy the more violent kids stuff now
<TwistedLucidity> "Looking directly at..."
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: As it ever was. Cite: Tom&Jerry, Roadrunner etc
<diplo> heh yep, they actually like T&J, but they're too old for Chuggington and the likes unless they are distracted.
<foobarry> thomas the tank engine?
<foobarry> old ones are ok, new ones are too CGI
<foobarry> same for postman pat, fireman sam , etc
<foobarry> bagpuss is jsut brilliant and we all still watch it
<bashrc_> the clangers
<crepple> That's the trouble the CGI effort are starting to look patterned - almost like boilerplate - makes you appreciate the old artists more I think
<directhex> mmmmm
<directhex> here's the thing. old shows had terrible pacing
<directhex> the new fireman sam looks awful, but not all modern kids' cgi does
<directhex> and the modern shows are better paced
<foobarry> i like the pacing of old shows
<foobarry> mr benn, bagpuss, button moon
<popey> pfff, new people have crappy attention span
<directhex> foobarry: you don't have the attention of a 2 year old
<foobarry> so my kids still mianly watch slow paced stuff
<foobarry> so thats all they know
<crepple> foobarry i like the pacing of old shows +1
<foobarry> shaun the sheep is the exception, but there's no words so its more old fashioned slapstick
<foobarry> we watch old fireman sam on youtube rather than new ones
<foobarry> but bagpuss is the perfect pacing i feel for a kids prog. if it feels like reading a book, then thats about right
<crepple> Old kids shows used to be made with adult viewers in mind - that was a better idea
<crepple> Because then parents would watch with their kids
<foobarry> also night garden which is designed to send kids to bed , not hype them up
<crepple> There's value in that
 * awilkins treads on a Tombliboo
<popey> I have one of these to build this weekend https://learn.adafruit.com/tv-b-gone-kit/overview
<awilkins> Heheheheh
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> i would do that in my dentist surgery. you are strssed and they are playing jerry springer type programmes
<popey> sophie said "can I take that to nana's house to annoy grandpa while he's watching telly?"
<popey> "sure you can"
<popey> I might have to tell her about the time grandpa threw wifey up the stairs when she kept turning over to the dukes of hazzard while he was watching footie scores.
<Myrtti> I've got an Adafruit Flora waiting for my hat to be done. Doing the sunblock reminder hat I got the parts for in August
<Myrtti> right now I'm spinning more yarn for finishing the hat
<foobarry> my wife is spinning angora to make a fluffly rabbit :-|
<foobarry> angora that came from a rabbit...
<Myrtti> a bit morbid, innit
<Myrtti> I'm just spinning ramie. Recon it'll make a nice summer hat.
<foobarry> i guess the rabiit lives
<foobarry> its very soft wool
<popey> Agrajag!
<Myrtti> they pluck the hair out though.
<Myrtti> I strongly dislike angora
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Day of Happiness! :-D
<foobarry> yay
<JamesTait> http://www.un.org/en/events/happinessday/
<diplo> You bought one of those popey ?
<popey> diplo: ya
<popey> also, today i learned, Deep Thought had an apple logo in the film of HHGTTG http://www.eeggs.com/images/items/1561.full.jpg
<diplo> Looks fun, may have to get one myself
<popey> i didnt buy from
<popey> *them
<popey> http://nottinghack.org.uk/?p=1199
<awilkins> Douglas was a lifelong Apple fan
<awilkins> Was the first person to buy a Mac in the UK, allegedly
<diplo> Walk into Currys and switch all the TV's off \o/
<foobarry> no redhat openssl update yet?
<popey> tsk tsk
<foobarry> Issues concerning OpenSSL 1.0.2 present the most serious problems fixed by the new releases. No Red Hat product uses this version of OpenSSL. Consequently, they are all labelled as not affected in the tables below.
<davmor2> diplo: I used to change the channel on the tv in the windows with the RC/calculator watch you could buy ages ago :D
<foobarry> i thought they backported fixes from later versions
<directhex> foobarry: the big problems were in new features in 1.0.2
<foobarry> yep
<directhex> they backport fixes, mostly not features
<foobarry> sometimes the fixes have bugs :)
<directhex> true
<diplo> davmor2: My phone has a RC app for TV's / Sky boxes
<DJones> diplo: There's a simlar app on my phone, I've still not found a tv it actually works with though
<zmoylan-pi> you could crazy as it sounds put the phone down and you know pick up the tv remote? :-)
<diplo> Helps when you've lost the remote, works with TV and sky on mine DJones
<zmoylan-pi> well if you're going to lose the remote...
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Don't be silly, I get up and walk over to the tv & fiddle around trying to find the hidden buttons
<zmoylan-pi> nah you point the laser at the buttons and the cat hits the buttons for you.  great entertainment :-)
<DJones> I'm sure I remember my dad having a video recorder that had a remote control connected via wire
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> my mate had one
<foobarry> top loader vhs
<DJones> That sounds about right
<foobarry> used to watch star wars on it every week
<zmoylan-pi> those top loading vhs are still around.  built like tanks
<DJones> With big clicky switches on the front
<zmoylan-pi> still trying to work out how to recycle them.  along with the nokia 3310s :-)
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: Two young boys, remotes always go missing :D
<DJones> Probably looked something like this http://www.digicamhistory.com/JVC_HR-3300angle.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> pocket money depends on a list of devices been where they are supposed to be with batteries intact can help with that :-)
<foobarry> http://s26.photobucket.com/user/wisconsinskies/media/IMG_0491.jpg.html
<foobarry> more like this
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> different still
<foobarry> and always flashing 12:00 on it
<zmoylan-pi> my ocd prevented that :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: o/
<bigcalm> davmor2: where's my spy camera?
<davmor2> bigcalm: where did you leave it?
 * bigcalm tuts
 * bigcalm sends davmor2 to google
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh look a pretty demo of the eclipse
<bigcalm> Cool
 * davmor2 returns from google
<foobarry> goign to a model show tomorrow
<bigcalm> Trains?
<foobarry> wish there were more oggcamp style things in the scale model commuinity
<foobarry> all sorts of scale models, not trains tho
<bigcalm> Shame
<foobarry> my first show i've attended. they have trade stands and demonstration tables
<foobarry> but its like the 21st century never happened with a lot of these guys
<foobarry> all websites are the MS Word website with blue background
<foobarry> http://www.southernexpo.co.uk/
<zmoylan-pi> do you know how hard it is to get a 1:10 scale cd rom drive to install libre office??
<foobarry> they have to call it the friendly show cos a lot of old men in model shops are autistic/grumpy
<awilkins> Well, if it's a model just put a MicroSD card in it :-)
<foobarry> like IT blokes
<foobarry> how do i change java security settings in firefox :S
<foobarry> oh i fixed it \o/
<zmoylan-pi> you stopped using java? :-D
<foobarry> unfortunately its for my EQL san :(
<foobarry> the trouble with buying a pack of 4 apples is that if the first one tastes wrong/unpleasant, you know the rest are too
<zmoylan-pi> and when wrapped under plastic you can't sniff the badness either
<foobarry> they just aren't very tasty
<Myrtti> dun dun duuuuunnnn
<diddledan> foobarry: looks like they're using ms frontpage to create that site
<diddledan> frontpage was abandoned by ms around 2003ish?
<diddledan> ello Myrtti
<foobarry> most model sites look like this
<foobarry> http://www.mksmc.co.uk/modelkraft/modelkraft_gen.html
<diddledan> foobarry: they're evil
<foobarry> there's no end to it
<diddledan> oh god!
<Myrtti> ramie is nice fibre to spin as the end result is great, but oh my word I'm covered in it...
<Myrtti> I should dig up my Flora and check it works on my Ubuntu
<diplo> Macromedia Fireworks site foobarry :)
<mapps> yay
<mapps> almost darts time
<mapps> 7pm-11;D
<mapps> then all you can eat and drink at chinese place;] 19 euros is a bargain
<foobarry> do they kick you out?
<mapps> i think closes 00;30
<mapps> 10mins from stadium ..just over border
<mapps> ID cards would be handy now;D sucks taking passport
<SuperEngineer> mapps - if they keep sucking your passport you probably have reasonable grounds for complaint
<SuperEngineer> Getting frustated now; 1/ having trouble fixing printhead prob on old Cannon printer & 2/ [ more importantly] can't get the Epson XP412 to use black ink except for "Print Test page", 3/ I seen seen this discussed somewhere before, can I find it, the heck I can! :(
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEx5lmbCKtY
<diddledan> the kid's arm costs $350
<diddledan> mucho cheaper than standard artifical limbs
<SuperEngineer> After a while one stops banging one's head against the wall in frustration; & starts banging one's head on the floor instead!
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: bad day?
<diddledan> http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-10-pirated-upgrades-will-still-be-considered-pirated/
<ali1234> wasn't it obvious? they'll let you upgrade to windows 10 but they'll still nag you about having a pirated copy. probably more so since they'll update the detection routines
<directhex> trying to remember which problems that causes these days
<directhex> no wallpaper iirc
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, nope - quite a good actually.  Imagine what I would have posted if it ^was^ a bad day ;D
<ali1234> "no wallpaper" is the starter edition
<directhex> according to wikipiddle, it has occasional full-screen nags and disables personalization (e.g. wallpaper, lock screen)
<directhex> in 8
<directhex> 7 is black wallpaper, and hides some OS updates
<SuperEngineer> nom nom time - see y'all later
<diddledan> ergh. that is a terrible idea - a client has commissioned a colleague to write an app which so far seems to be a packaged set of html files, one for each product, which solely link to the website for the product
<diddledan> s/an app/a smartphone app/
<diddledan> as far as I can tell the app is purely an advertisement. their websites are sufficient for that. they just seem to want an app because "OMGZOR MOBILE APPS"
<diddledan> I could understand somewhat if they were actually using functionality of the phone, but there doesn't appear to be anything that can only be achieved by having an app
<ali1234> that's 99.9% of all mobile apps...
<diddledan> I can understand creating an app with cordova when you need something that you can't access on the web, but when you're creating what is effectively just a website that doesn't do anything non-webby then it seems like a pointless exercise to make it into an app
<ali1234> diddledan: apple used to reject apps that did that and only that...
<ali1234> maybe they still do
<diddledan> I hope they do still do that
<diddledan> proper mobile apps can be great, but cordova allows people to think or otherwise say they're building an app when they're just doing a website
<diddledan> not that cordova in itself is bad - I would consider it for any app I build myself due to the ability to utilise my current skillset
<diddledan> my opinion is "if you can do it on the web, then you don't need an app"
<ali1234> sometimes it's nice to have a website offline
<ali1234> like offline wikipedia for example
<Azelphur> lmao, bluevm (VPS host) have completely lost the plot :P
<diddledan> Azelphur: oh?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> diddledan: my dads renting from them, servers been down >34 hours, no response to the ticket for 34 hours, their main control panel for the whole network is down (so no way to control VPS's even if they were up), no response on their IRC channel, twitter, or email.
<diddledan> oh dear
<Azelphur> yep, guess they aren't doing well, I told my dad to paypal dispute them, he wants to give them until Monday
<Azelphur> I'm usually really patient with hosts, because I know it can be real difficult, but yea they are just outright ignoring us lol
<diddledan> I wonder if you've breached 99% uptime guarantee yet
<diddledan> must be pretty close
<Azelphur> yes, 99% is 7 hours
<diddledan> eep
<Azelphur> Honestly dunno what these guys are doing haha, it's like they just took the money and ran :P
<ali1234> raided?
<Azelphur> ali1234: hahaha, could well e
<Azelphur> be*
<diddledan> I like that on the 2nd of january they posted this: https://bluevm.com/announcements.php?id=7
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> cloudflare says "An Error 522 means that the request was able to connect to your web server, but that the request didn't finish. The most likely cause is that something on your server is hogging resources."
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> that's for their "manage server" page at https://feathur.bluevm.com/
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed, it means the whole customer base can't access basic things like reboot, shutdown, os reload lol
<diddledan> obsidian irc?
<Azelphur> yup, I'm already on there and have pinged all the ops, it seems like all the ops don't even work for the company any more
<diddledan> the TOS on obsidian says you're not allowed to harrass people, so that means you can't badger them into responding :-(
<Azelphur> yea, no point either since none of them actually work for the company
<Azelphur> most of them sympathised but as I say, they don't work for BlueVM so
<diddledan> oh, they're not ignoring you then, just they're not relevant
<Azelphur> exactly
<diddledan> http://uptime.bluevm.com/
<diddledan> dallas is listed as offline as is the "website" which clearly isn't
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, seems like a useless thing, it says feathur is up when it isn't, my dads server is in Georgia which is supposedly online xD
<Azelphur> yea, it's pretty silly
<diddledan> and feathur is listed as online which clearly isn't
<diddledan> aah you said that already
<Azelphur> Something substantial and interesting has to be up anyway, owner running away with the money or getting raided or something :P
<diddledan> they last twitted on the 4th (my birthday! :-p)
<diddledan> oh no, that's a pinned twit. the 12th then
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan> ooh, cortana is available on windows10 in the uk now
<Azelphur> finally one of their support staff joined IRC and said someone is DDoSing the ticket system
<awilkins_> So Slashdot says that MS are electing to "allow" OEMs to disable the ability to turn off Secure Boot
<awilkins_> Yet another nasty attack on Linux
<awilkins_> Entirely predictable
<diddledan> does that mean they'll do so on their own devices I wonder
<awilkins_> They already did for Windows RT things, didn;t they
<awilkins_> Signed binaries only
<diddledan> yeah but that was required by their policy anyway
<awilkins_> They don't need to have a policy that says "turn off SecureBoot"
<awilkins_> You know what I mean
<diddledan> what I mean is they followed their requirements that they told other manufacturers
<awilkins_> They'll just quietly make it be known in OEM license negotiations that there may be certain ... "considerations" for those OEMs that make it much harder for their hardware to boot .. other .. operating systems
<awilkins_> "Oh, yes, fewer config options make things more reliable - less to misconfigure, less to go wrong - we prefer that kind of device, gives Windows a good name by being more reliable..."
<diddledan> secureboot as a technology makes sense. what doesn't is that the keys are controled by a commercial entity that competes with compsnies that also want to be able to install software on the same devices
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Ubuntu already had the key needed right, so this doesn't really make a bigger issue then we already have with windows 8 right?
<diddledan> really it would serve microsoft to spin-out the keysigning to a not-for-profit so that they can't be dragged through the couts over antitrust regs
<diddledan> ChloeWolfieGirl: yes I heard that too
<diddledan> redhat also has one iirc
<intrbiz> surely today's (not unsurprising) news about how little BIOSes can be trusted makes secureboot slightly moot
<diddledan> intrbiz: link?
<diddledan> intrbiz: I think the news today is more about devices that do everything in an embedded chip rather than a standard pc-style bios firmware
<intrbiz> https://threatpost.com/new-bios-implant-vulnerability-discovery-tool-to-debut-at-cansecwest/111710
<intrbiz> https://twitter.com/dragosr
<diddledan> oh, I hadn't seen that one
<intrbiz> given how closely Intel guards the low-level boot and SMM code, it is very difficult to actually trust a machine
<diddledan> but bios exploits have been proven for some time now
<intrbiz> SMM can be used to have code running that even the kernel cannot see or control
<intrbiz> which can then use SOL to send what ever it likes, where ever
<intrbiz> sure, BIOS malware is nothing new, the stats on how easy it is, is more shocking
<intrbiz> whilst it is nice, from a security stand point to be able to sign and verify the OS and limit tampering there, which is what secure boot does
<intrbiz> we still can't forget about the layers lower than that
<diddledan> anything that is writable in some way or another is exploitable, just some things require out-of-band writing
<diddledan> I discovered, for e.g. that my bricked-bios motherboard has a header that allows me to blow a new bios despite the thing being unable to even power itself up
<intrbiz> indeed, and something obscure, unaudited and rarely updated is a pretty big risk
<diddledan> yup
<intrbiz> diddledan: probably a JTAG port or similar
<diddledan> it's an SPI interface
<intrbiz> even easier then
<intrbiz> SPI programabler EEPROM
<diddledan> (ignore my doubling of interface :-p)
<intrbiz> programable*
<diddledan> all I need now is to find a suitable cable
<diddledan> (and download the firmware off msi.com)
<intrbiz> I beleive that the proof of concept they had for todays talk, was finding PGP keys in memory and then sending them via SOL
<diddledan> as far as I can tell, with regards to security of a system, anything that occurs in the cpu is exploitable.. so the only way to ensure safety of a system is to prevent things occuring in the cpu, OR have fixed-function hardware whose sole purpose is out-of-band sanity checks on the running cpu
<diddledan> i.e. the oob isn't controlled in any way by the cpu
<diddledan> and ideally is completely unaddressable from the x86
<diddledan> one such example I've heard suggested is a device that prevents the cpu from starting-up until it's checked the bios for signatures
<intrbiz> yeh
<diddledan> the reason being that the cpu starts the bios immediately on powering up and then the code in the bios checks the bios. because the cpu trusts the bios implicitly then the bios-checking-bios code might be tampered with
<diddledan> so the principle is that you can flash a new hacked bios which doesn't check itself
<diddledan> then you have full-control
<intrbiz> sure, remember their is also microcode in the CPU and chipset
<shauno> doesn't that just move the goalposts?  this new chip becomes the target instead of the bios
<diddledan> shauno: yup
<intrbiz> well, you'd end up engineering the security chip like the TPMs are
<intrbiz> with physical anti-tamper mechanisms inside the package and no way to alter the code running, IE; real PROM
<diddledan> the problem is if there's ever software running
<diddledan> the only real way of ensuring security is to air-gap
<diddledan> i.e. nothing can access anything else ever
<intrbiz> but if that software cannot be changed and is available to be audited, and simple then it is probably the best that can be acheived
<diddledan> that means humans aren't allowed to interact with the thing either
<intrbiz> peice of paper and dead drops ;)
<diddledan> and keep it powered down, obviously
<diddledan> even hardware that doesn't run software can be exploited - just requires a different sort of engineering
<diddledan> e.g. bombs can be disarmed
<diddledan> it's obviously always the red wire!
<intrbiz> or the green one
<diddledan> oh, I hadn't seen that one all the way back there
<diddledan> where's it go?
<intrbiz> you wouldn't want a colour blind ATO
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVPE7I0I7X4
<intrbiz> speed is it not
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> with keano reeves and sandra with her bullocks
<diddledan> u*
<diddledan> keanu*
<diddledan> oh I donno how he spells it
<intrbiz> :)
<shauno> of course, once you've actually solved the problem, Stallman starts telling everyone you're evil because your 'by jove we've fixed it!' chip can't be modified.  and you cna't use openboot/seabios/etc because they fail the check
 * zmoylan-pi prefers the fr. ted version of speed :-)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk
<intrbiz> shauno: not quite, to be auditable it would need to be open
<zmoylan-pi> if it ain't open it's not yours
<Myrtti> bah.
 * diddledan_ waits fo windows to update 
<diddledan_> 14%
<zmoylan-pi> this is when you have a rasp pi in your pocket that you power off the usb ports of the windows computer.  just to get work done :-)
<diddledan_> Lol
<diddledan_> EDRM
<diddledan_> Erm **
<diddledan_> Not sure what my phone did just then
<diddledan_>   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<zmoylan-pi> bad phone, hit it with a rolled up ebook :-P
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjbjws7uohfhu6p/photo%2020-03-2015%2022%2038%2048.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan_> The new upgrade screen
<zmoylan-pi> your pc will restart several times.  i don't miss windows
<intrbiz> diddledan_: drum roll reuiqred?
<diddledan_> Time to nibble on some cake, while this whirs, methinks
<intrbiz> hmmpf, broke my build
<diddledan_> What you building?
<intrbiz> a monitoring system
<zmoylan-pi> no more turning off secure boot. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-to-make-the-secure-boot-alt-os-lock-out-a-reality/
<intrbiz> just a misssing dep in my POM
<diddledan_> Pom?
<intrbiz> Project Object Model, it's Maven's config file, Java build / project tool
<diddledan_> Aah
<intrbiz> it handles dependency management, building, packaging, etc
<intrbiz> makes life rather easy
<diddledan_> Being Java, does that mean it's a maze of evil verbose xml?
<shauno> ( https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition )
<ChloeWolfieGirl> not an ubuntu question, but does Sata3 power a HDD or just move data?
<intrbiz> SATA is just the data bus
<intrbiz> SATA drives use a standard connector which has power an data on it
<intrbiz> diddledan_: urm, it is an XML file, it could be better, could be worse and eclipse puts a nice GUI over it
<awilkins_> Ah, Maven
<awilkins_> At least it's not Ant
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I thought so, but I'm looking at this motherboard and I'm trying to figure out, if the small sata cable doesn't power the HDD how am I suppost to get power to the hdd? (( http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/2/4965/10511.png ))
<awilkins_> On a 3.5 drive there;s usually 2 connectors
<diddledan_> shauno: that is hardly a suitable assignment for a prospective developer during interview unless the interviewer doesn't understand programming themselves
<awilkins_> You should have some Molex / SATA power cables
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: there is a 7 pin cable between the motherboard and HDD which is data only, then a power connector from the PSU to the HDD
<intrbiz> awilkins_: Having used Ant in the past, Maven is a massive improvement and does more than just build
<awilkins_> intrbiz, Oh, definitely
<awilkins_> Wish everyone used it
 * diddledan_ now reads how terrible that implementation is given the "enterprise" requirement -gimme a mo
<awilkins_> Checking out source code from our VCS is horrible because they check all the libraries in in subfolders *shudder*
<awilkins_> Really gives me no confidence at all
<intrbiz> awilkins_: Noooooo, SCM is for source, it's in the f***ing name
<intrbiz> awilkins_: a couple of jobs ago we used to do that with SVN, each project had the library jars in it
<diddledan_> Oh god it hurts!
<awilkins_> Nexus 4tw
<intrbiz> awilkins_: we quickly started spending more time moving files around than actually coding (it felt that way), Maven fixed that issue easily
<intrbiz> diddledan_: what hurts?
<diddledan_> intrbiz: the code in the fizzbuzzenterprise
<awilkins_> fizzbuzzterprize!
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I was just looking at Molex to SATA power cables and it looks like they might go into the big long pin connectors next to the sata data ports, Cos I have no idea what they're for, sorry, desktops that I've been around are few and far apart xD
<shauno> it's meant to hurt.  that's the whole joke :)
<awilkins_> What, FizzBuzzTerprise doesn't use Guice for injecting modules in
<awilkins_> NOt enTERprisEY EnOufh
<diddledan_> awilkins_: submit a pull request
<intrbiz> quite alot of the IOCCC entries hurt too
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: if you have a modern (as in last 10 years) PSU it will likely have a couple of sata power connectors on it
<diddledan_> And windows is done
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: the SATA data and SATA power connectors sit next to each other, the SATA HDD connector is designed for use with hot swappable backplanes
<ChloeWolfieGirl> intrbiz yeah its a new one, I don't have it yet, and am trying to work my head around online pictures of it, xD
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: http://www.allpinouts.org/images/9/9c/Conn_sata.gif
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I see the power bits on the HDD but I don't see the power bit on the mother board unless I do have to use Molex to Sata power cables.
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: the power connector on the HDD goes straight to the PSU
<diddledan_> The power doesn't come from the motherboard the same as other drives
<intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: you only need a 4 pin Molex to SATA power for older PSUs which don't have SATA power cables
<ChloeWolfieGirl> OHHHHHHH
<diddledan_> Motherboards have never been the source of power for disc drives
<intrbiz> diddledan_: certainly for consumer kit, not always for servers
<diddledan_> Good point
<ChloeWolfieGirl> yeah I don't have my desktop yet, but I have some hard-drives, and was like "Hmm what leashes do I need to get to use these hard-drives?"
<diddledan_> It does seem odd to me that you need more power pins than data for data discs
<diddledan_> Sata **
<diddledan_> Silly autocorrect
<intrbiz> diddledan_: why does that seem silly?
<diddledan_> Cos I don't get why you'd need so many
<intrbiz> diddledan_: quite a few of the pins are ground
<diddledan_> Why more than one ground?
<intrbiz> diddledan_: the current that a single pin can handle for those style connectors is fairly low and you need to handle in-rush for hot-plug and spin up currents
<intrbiz> you have multiple ground lines to reduce interference between the signal pairs
<intrbiz> the data cable is structured: ground, pair, ground, pair, ground
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I was once a silly, I opened a sega saturn because the  sega saturn wouldn't detect a disc and spin, so I messed around and eletricuted myself, luckily it wasn't bad but gosh, yeah... shouldn't mess around with electics with no protection and it plugged in
<ChloeWolfieGirl> just cos we where talking about ground pins
<intrbiz> indeed, you need to be careful when opening anything which has exposed high voltage, open frame PSUs in embded devices you should take care with
<diddledan_> I get multiple grounds on a data cable, I don't get it for a power cable
<shauno> they're just bonded because the pins can't handle the amperage required
<shauno> so you ahve 3x3.3V, 3x5V, 3x12V, 3xground
<intrbiz> also be ware of the capacitor on the high voltage side of a PSU that can take a while to discharge
<shauno> so you're not sending more than 1.5A across each pin, despite the power supply and cable being able to (and needing to, if you have enough drives)
<intrbiz> you need the same wire cross section for ground as you do for the positive voltages, easiest way to do that is with multiple wires
<intrbiz> the other reason for multiple grounds
<intrbiz> you will notice that the positive pins and the ground pins on hot swap connectors are different lengths
<intrbiz> the ground must always mate first
<intrbiz> which is why ground lines will be placed on either end of the hot swap connectors
<diddledan> and back on the desktop
<diddledan> yeah I understand ground being required to connect first
<intrbiz> how most PSUs limit in rush current is quite neat
<m0nkey_> cheers!
 * m0nkey_ downs a rum
<diddledan> drunky m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> just getting started, so no.. not yet
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-21
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: photos tomorrow, we're browsing through them first
<Myrtti> 9GB's worth...
<daftykins> not many then ;)
<daftykins> cleaned up some PCs today \o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/110mteug0vufjrm/IMG_20150320_135305.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> they all suffer from workshop dust-itis
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, about time! :-) Been waiting for them!
<intrbiz> daftykins: rather you than me
<daftykins> intrbiz: why-so? easy peasy :D
<intrbiz> daftykins: dust allergy :(
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> how far do you have to go with protecting yourself from that? if you were in a room with a dusty floor would you notice?
<intrbiz> daftykins: urm it's only an issue when very dusty, so when cleaning servers out or dusting the house I tend to take a hayfever tablet
<intrbiz> daftykins: or more to the point, when distrubing the dust
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> no clean rooms then :D
<intrbiz> I tend not to tidy around often, but that is more laziness
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if i still have a manky pcs i cleaned out folder...
<intrbiz> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/ventblockers_2/
<zmoylan-pi> must be on kitchen computer.
<diddledan> http://sirius.clarity-lab.org/
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't it be drunkm0nkey now? :-)
<diddledan> lol @ danish air traffic control when a leap second is due : "ok, flights, we're going off-air now. tata. good luck"
<diddledan> discovered in this talk: http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/fosdem/2015/main_track-time/ntimed_ntpd_replacement.mp4
<diddledan> about 25 minutes
<diddledan> 25 minutes-in
<shauno> no wonder you can't sleep
<mapp> n
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hey moodoo
<MooDoo> kids got me up lol
<MartijnVdS> isn't that what they're for? alarm clocks? :P
<MooDoo> lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * SuperEngineer is annoyed with the beeb - they block get-iplayer but don't provide a linux download - only a Windows & Mac version - really beeb, you think that matches your charter?  I don't.  hurumph!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh the Beeb have been doing that for 100 years+ since their choice of which TV standard to use in the days of early TV sets
<zmoylan-pi>  good old mechanical baird tv :-)
<penguin42> spin up the nipkov disk!
<SuperEngineer> hmmm- have a look at theitr charter - they are required to provide *full* access - withiut bias
<SuperEngineer> *without
<zmoylan-pi> 'withiut bias' reads like proper bbc english :-)
<SuperEngineer> yes, one fully agrees the previous staement
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * SuperEngineer takes plum out of cheek
 * zmoylan-pi prints that on a sign and using sticky back plastic attaches it to the wall
<SuperEngineer> ...don't forget to show us the one you made earlier
<SuperEngineer> The question is, however, who/what/when/why did they change their tolerance of get-iplayer
<SuperEngineer> ...was it the same a*hole who also said, "make'em suffer - don't even provode a linux download
<SuperEngineer> *provide
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - trying to [buffering] watch last week's grand [buffering] prix via i- [buffering] player really [buffering] sucks
<popey> does get_iplayer no longer work?
<zmoylan-pi> well the bbc has a blind spot when it comes to technology, their journalists think that only iphones exist for some reason
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: do you have the github version
<Myrtti> the one from the repos stopped working ages ago methinks
<popey> yeah, latest seems to work okay here
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti, actually no -  I have the repo version
<Myrtti> yeah, that's why it doesn't work
<Myrtti> BBC nixed an API the repo version used
<SuperEngineer> hurumph!
 * SuperEngineer avoids asking the obvious ["then why is it still in the repos - coz that would be annoying, wouldn't it]  :D
<popey> file a bug
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/get-iplayer/+bugs
<popey> oh look, bugs
<SuperEngineer> SURELY NOT!
<SuperEngineer> & who hit my caps lock - oh, yeah, me!  doh!
<popey> someone needs to update it in vivid, then backport it
<popey> or just remove it if nobody is maintaining it
 * popey looks at Daviey
<SuperEngineer> The best thing about IRC is the fact you don't actually use your mouth - especially useful when you've just burnt your upper lip [hashtag damn, that hurts!]
<foobarry> back from my nerdfest modelshow
<foobarry> full on scale model geekery
<foobarry> rather akin to oggcamp/linux geekery i've seen. seems to attract the same types
<penguin42> what types of model?
<_TROLL_> ubuntu is crap
<Myrtti> ok.
<penguin42> ah a nice honest troll
<foobarry> all sorts
<foobarry> https://plus.google.com/photos/114715399750849495601/albums/6128745942942175857?authkey=CIamjpqT75bwpgE
<foobarry> at least troll had the decency to annoucne himself as troll
<shauno> the rugby seems awefully exciting, but I've no idea what's going on
<SuperEngineer> that, *that*, was one of the best games of rugby I've watched in ages... no ^N cup [^ points short] - but wow!
<SuperEngineer> *6N ... & 6... and whoops somethings happened with keyboard.. guess I'g better go changre the batteries!
<shauno> not sure I've ever seen them look so sad about beating france though
<SuperEngineer> now lets try... 6! &6! .... wow, new batteries make a wee bit of difference :D
<SuperEngineer> shauno - it's a shame, but they should be proud
<shauno> I only pay attention so I know what to say at work :/
<SuperEngineer> shame on you!
<shauno> :)
<shauno> rugby for me is tainted with some very dark memories of school
<SuperEngineer> ...confuse them, tell them at work that you thought Sweden played the best match :D
<shauno> as an englishman living in ireland, letting them win but giving them a fright is quite a convenient narative
<SuperEngineer> hmmmmm
<SuperEngineer> ever thought of becoming a politician ;)
<shauno> I couldn't do that.  my poor mother would die of shame
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> [rugby players wearing suits mostly like bouncers]
<shauno> [I wonder if he knows we can hear him thinking]
<SuperEngineer> .................... I can't!
<SuperEngineer> In retrospect, all it would have taken for England to get those final 6 points was a vet with a  sedative air dart gun in the crowd - shame on all you vets - you let us down!
<KrimZon> is there any way to install ubuntu server 14.04 via usb stick?
<KrimZon> I've had a quick go but
<KrimZon> using unetbootin the installer complains that it can't find the cd
<penguin42> KrimZon: You should just be able to dd it straight to the stick
<penguin42> KrimZon: If your usb stick is /dev/sdX then dd if=ubuntu14.04.iso of=/dev/sdX bs=1024k   note don't put the '1' at the end if it's /dev/sdX1
<KrimZon> aha, thanks, i'll give that a go
<KrimZon> this looks more promising
<penguin42> KrimZon: Out of interest what machine are you booting it on?
<KrimZon> an atom d510 motherboard i bought in 2010 or 2011
<KrimZon> installing over ubuntu server 10.04
<penguin42> ok
<KrimZon> i can't remember the model name
<KrimZon> and the manual isn't in the easiest-to-dig-out box of manuals
<penguin42> no no, don't worry about it
<KrimZon> it's old anyway, and last time I installed it I plugged a CD drive in
<penguin42>  '10 isnt old!
<KrimZon> it's old enough that i was worried some devices wouldn't boot from usb
<KrimZon> unless I was thinking of something else
<penguin42> nah, not in '10
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-22
<penguin42> hmm, my apache segfaulted a few times during a security upgrade; fine before and seems fine after - I guess something screwy in the way the upgrade was done
<zmoylan-pi> glitches during security updates poke your paranoia a smidge
<penguin42> yeh
<zmoylan-pi> and leave a lingering doubt that never quite fades
<mapp> hi;]
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapp> sleepy time for me
<mapp> ;D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> "Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at..." [still can't see which are the term times & which are the school holiday times]
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the pea shooter and pelts SuperEngineer to make it clear
<SuperEngineer> :)
 * SuperEngineer throws stale buns at zmoylan-pi - bun fight stylie
 * zmoylan-pi knots together rubber bands to make a finger catapult and folds paper to make ammunition...
 * SuperEngineer chews paper, gets straws... aims
 * zmoylan-pi puts a dozen thumbtacks in sheet of paper and slides it under SuperEngineer when they sit down
 * SuperEngineer saws through 3 out of 4 zmoylan-pi chair legs 
 * zmoylan-pi opens cartridge pen and pours ink in pool on SuperEngineer's seat to earn them the name smurfbottom for rest of term after next p.e. class
 * SuperEngineer connects zmoylan-pi's bunsen burner's gas pipe to mains water feed!
<SuperEngineer> [...& yes - I actually *did* swap the whole phsics labs pipes once!
 * zmoylan-pi sets up SuperEngineer's bunsen burner to cook toast and notifies teacher...
 * SuperEngineer sulks - darn teachers' pets!
 * zmoylan-pi nibbles on toast i made earlier...
<zmoylan-pi> we got kicked out of the lab for making toast on bunsen burners.  some health and safety violation i think
<zmoylan-pi> this was after we were kicked out of the lab for using foot long mercury thermometers as light sabres
<SuperEngineer> when I "re-routed the gas/water pipes the physics master had to leave the room [laughing] - he had previously told me he had done this himself... did we laugh!  [my punishment - to reconnect the pipes the correct way round befoire anybody worked out what had happened!]
<zmoylan-pi> science was much more fun before health and safety got involved... :-D
<SuperEngineer> nmmm.. mercury; ever made a mercury motor?
<zmoylan-pi> no
<SuperEngineer> ever then stepped up the voltage to 480????  ever since a room evacuated at double speed?
<zmoylan-pi> they wouldn't let us do experiments with electricity.  i think they knew us too well
<SuperEngineer> [and you see all this stuff on tv trying to convince kids that science is fun... dunno what they mean!]
<zmoylan-pi> we studied a lot of gravity by throwing people off fire escape.  i wonder now how we managed to not injure anyone to require a plaster cast
<SuperEngineer> oooh - now that's one I did miss out on
<zmoylan-pi> i highly recommend people *don't* try this one at home.  these days it'll all end in lawyers :-(
 * SuperEngineer starts writing letter: "Dear old school, any chance I could come back for a few days...
<penguin42> were the people being thrown off willin subjects?
<penguin42> g
<SuperEngineer> I missed out on an "experiment" ;)
<zmoylan-pi> if they were willing it would go against the spirtit of the game of course
<zmoylan-pi> there had to be a risk of been thrown off while trying to throw someone else off to make it a sport
<SuperEngineer> iof they were willing... it just means they were budding parachutists! - though they were probably also forgetful, no parachute!
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, you *do* realise that we are now both being marked out as a couple of evil idiots, don't you?
<zmoylan-pi> *or* evil geniuses! ;-)
<SuperEngineer> confession... idiot yes, evil no!  genius: definitely!
<zmoylan-pi> i went to a notorious school.
<SuperEngineer> what's a notorious school... is it where you go if are already notorious or where you go to learn how?
<zmoylan-pi> when we were in a league with other schools for various sports they had to double the number of ambulances when we played
<SuperEngineer> you shouldn't play against ambulances... they are big and rather hard when yoiu knock into them!
<zmoylan-pi> on my last day of school as i left for the last time i was oddly proud to watch gardai walk in to arrest a first year for breaking jcb window
 * SuperEngineer renames channel ubuntu-school-confeessions !
<zmoylan-pi> the driver in it at the time was upset for some reason...
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> on my last day at day at school I found out the head master had a particular dislike of people ploughing a cricket pitch roller right through the 6th form hut!
<penguin42> who would have guessed
<SuperEngineer> :)
<zmoylan-pi> we got a lot of detention after a letter for precare instructions for a vascetomy was put on notice board with principals name.  totally worth it...
<SuperEngineer> zm
<SuperEngineer> whoops!
<zmoylan-pi> pretty difficult in mid 80s without a printer and nicely photocopied on header from real clinic
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, I would mention my piece de resistance, but this is a family channel [suffice to say it may just possibly have me, my motor bike, the head master's gown, a set of false over-bite teeth, a perfect impersonation, a 6th form concert which all teachers rolling on floor laughing & a slight request from head master to visit his office immediately after}
<zmoylan-pi> ours was putting a nail in teachers stool. it was very carefully thought out.  shortest teacher and tallest stool.  no way they could accidently sit on it. held in with sellotape so if in 1 in million chance they did it would fall out
<zmoylan-pi> the teach took his stool out from under desk and just looked at 8" nail sticking out of it for about 2-3 minutes...
<zmoylan-pi> then looked at us and said in a way that made him very cool. 'i'm not sure which is worse, that you put this in my stool or thought i would be stupid enough to sit on it' :-P
<SuperEngineer> The most amazing, gratifying and proof-my-time-was-well-spentest thing...
<SuperEngineer> ...all that - and I was still welcomed back to do a photo-shot for them, then a light show for the school band, then a reunion - & only one dissenter amongst all the staff - bet you can't guess who rthat was ;)
<SuperEngineer> hashtag end-of-confession
<SuperEngineer> p.s. an 8" nail??? doesn't that border on overkill [literally]
<penguin42> wth do you even get an 8" nail
<zmoylan-pi> it had to be so big there was no chance they could sit on it combined with leaving the thought in the teachers head the little sods want me dead...
 * zmoylan-pi whistles nonchantly
 * SuperEngineer phones police [twice: once for you, once for me]  ;)
<zmoylan-pi> we did a bad thing?
<SuperEngineer> ermmmm... yup
<zmoylan-pi> i should have gotten permission before i nicked the nail?
<SuperEngineer> yeah, that!
 * zmoylan-pi decides to not reveal any of the bad things we did so
<SuperEngineer> [but the things I did were never bad, honest guv! - in fact they were superb]
<zmoylan-pi> our rule was no one should be physically hurt (ie. requiring hospital) after that it was fair game
<foobarry> uihuhui
<foobarry> woops
<foobarry> my hp microserver seems to fail to boot a lot
<foobarry> ureadahead failed with status 5
<foobarry> then shows disks gettingmounted
<foobarry> then nothing
<zmoylan-pi> try booting off usb drive to see if it's just the boot drive?
<foobarry> sometimes it works
<zmoylan-pi> but if you try it with usb drive does it always work?
<foobarry> i would expect so
<zmoylan-pi> ie. is the current drive on last spindle
<popey> morning
<foobarry> its a raid setup
<popey> oh, afternoon
<zmoylan-pi> ah yes you said.  sorry, coffee still below optimal
<foobarry> o/
<foobarry> hmm booted now. gonna run dist-upgrade
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<nigelb> evenin'
<bigcalm> k[-p****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
<popey> hello cat
<penguin42> hehe
<bigcalm> I really wish it were
<bigcalm> Just me dismantling some hardware with cables flopping about
<bigcalm> Wife and I have just had ice-creams from an ice-cream van. Oh to live in suburbia in the spring time
 * penguin42 is currently considering buying an icecream machine; I've been considering it for a while and It's getting more tempting by the day
<zmoylan-pi> summer is coming...
<zmoylan-pi> or what passes for summer in these parts :-)
<penguin42> nod
<bigcalm> Fixed my glasses with blutac. Not sure how I really feel about this as I know it's not a long term fix
<penguin42> is that as long term in minutes hours or days or just an inconvenient time when they mustnt fail?
<bigcalm> I'm missing a screw from one of the nose pads. So it'll if I don't take these glasses out of this office. I think
<penguin42> oh, not as bad as losing a screw out of the arm/bit that holds the lens
<bigcalm> Yeah
<popey> anyone with good eyes about?
<popey> http://imgur.com/0JxQihw,0tliuXs,lb8Jts6
<popey> two of those LEDs are apparently wide angle
<popey> two are narrow
<popey> the wide angle ones are lighter blue, the others are grey, but I can't tell the difference
<bigcalm> popey: quickest way to find out is to stick them in some breadboard with a resistor and a batter
<bigcalm> y
<popey> thats a way better idea
 * popey wanders off again
<foobarry> put them under UVlight?
<MrI> i have screen artifacts
<ali1234> today i've been experimenting with laser transfer PCBs
<ali1234> inkjet paper sucks, press n peel sucks
<ali1234> but i had good results with PVA film
<ali1234> only probably is it deforms in the printer cos it has a melting point 230 C and a laser printer is like 210 C
<ali1234> it gave by far the best results though, and in the shortest amount of time
<zmoylan-pi> a zx thermal printer! \o/ :-)
<shauno> I just order boards from china.  kinda blows for turnaround time, but they've been spot on so far
<ali1234> who did you use?
<shauno> seeed's one .. the name escapes me right now
<ali1234> seeed have good prices but then it's like $50 for delivery
<shauno> yeah, you have to be able to bundle a few for it to pay off
<shauno> but I still haven't paid for Eagle, so I tend to end up stacking a few boards because the free version won't let me make them bigger
<shauno> probably false economy, but it works for me.  and localizes screwups to a single board
<shauno> I've been slowly building up a radio, but constantly discovering that I know jack squat.  so keeping it this modular has made it much easier to try different things
<shauno> mostly though, I'm just lazy.  we used UV masks at school.  freaking messy.  china makes it as easy as ordering pizza
 * m0nkey_ is not a happy bunny
<m0nkey_> that's the third time Xorg has hung on me
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-21
<daftykins> nice discount on synology DS215j 2 bay NASs right now
<daftykins> (on amazon)
<popey> https://lists.debian.org/debian-bsd/2016/03/msg00103.html UbuntuBSD anyone? :)
<diddledan> popey, whaaa?
<popey> indeed
<diddledan> the question is have they got copyright usage grant from canonical :-p
<diddledan> I'd have called it BSDtutu
<diddledan> because TUTUs!
<daftykins> Desmond!
<m0nkey_> ooh, new BSD :)
<diddledan> eww. that ubuntubsd is hosted on sourceforge
<m0nkey_> ehhhh
<popey> Someone on the debian list asked about trademarks and I think the question was ignored
<diddledan> that email thread appears to be getting political: "Due to Ubuntu being heavily based on Debian, they chose to change to systemd going forward; I'm not sure if that has changed or not, but the strength of Debian selling out to systemd, well, that sold out Ubuntu as well."
<daftykins> good ol' nerd in-fighting
<diddledan> love the terrible wording of this tweet that the ubuntubsd twitter retweeted: "Due to Ubuntu being heavily based on Debian, they chose to change to systemd going forward; I'm not sure if that has changed or not, but the strength of Debian selling out to systemd, well, that sold out Ubuntu as well." <-- err, Linux userland? is there even such a thing?
<diddledan> bad paste
<diddledan> let me try again: "#UbuntuBSD: the unquestionably legal way to get #ZFS on a Linux userland."
<diddledan> more appropriate wording might have been "GNU userland" or even better "debian userland"
<daftykins> whilst you're having that convo you can talk to amazon about their computers with Gb of RAM and Tb of storage
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> gigabits?!
<diddledan> and terrible bits?
<diddledan> !!
<diddledan> or are Gb giant-bits
<diddledan> gargantuan bits?
<diddledan> growable bits?
<daftykins> when it's all lowercase i enjoy the idea of gramme bits
<diddledan> all lowercase is horrid when people write "mb" .. milibits?
<daftykins> yeah :D maybe millibars
<diddledan> or even just "maybe bytes?"
<diddledan> combined with a shrugging action
<daftykins> now that'd be tough notation!
<daftykins> ooh i finally learnt the other day that there are always errant "J"s at the end of emails because folks who use Outlook get a smiley apparently
<daftykins> how foolish considering we're not all slaves to MS office just to read strings of text
<diddledan> I try to use plaintext where possible for email
<diddledan> preferably wrapped at terminal width :-p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> speaking of wrap, i'm going to unwrap a doughnut!
<diddledan> mmmmm
<diddledan> http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/7/7f/Mmm.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121205194537
<diddledan> nice fanart: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/c3/7f/7bc37fa140dfd55fe655d9bac266558d.jpg
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> ah this laptop is amazing, 77% battery, 14hrs remaining
<mappps> hi
<daftykins> mornin' mr.mappps
<mappps> morning
<daftykins> moar p's than you can shake a stick at
<daftykins> http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/20/11265552/find-stolen-android-phone-track-samsung-galaxy-mexico
<mappps> another rubbish night:)
<daftykins> here's some shocking tech reporting
<mappps> i was talking russian, girl asks if im from there
<mappps> not at all
<daftykins> actual russian? :)
<mappps> her mate says he can speak it, so i said ok..np..speak to me
<mappps> then he started getting angry
<mappps> no
<mappps> my mum was Ukranian
<daftykins> angry o0
<mappps> not me
<mappps> he sounded stupid when i said speak then:
<mappps> but he wouldnt
<daftykins> strange times!
<daftykins> i finished X-Files s10 off earlier
<mappps> peoele like to lie
<daftykins> what a big letdown
<mappps> told you
<mappps> it sucked
<daftykins> mmhmm
<mappps> it did
<daftykins> that's me agreeing :D
<daftykins> ok i think i'm going to call it a night, probably be some stuff to do tomorrow :)
<daftykins> nn chap o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> half asleep, slept really badly, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not too bad, glad it's only a 4 day week :D
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 ow am ya?
 * knightwise has the flu
<knightwise> sitting at work trying not to shiver
<MooDoo> knightwise: go home, if it's what I had, you'll be zonked out by dinner!
<davmor2> MooDoo: raced off my feet and I only just started, other than that good, and caravan is on it's pitch ready for Friday \o/, you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: just looking at booking a week in aug, so we can go for a week in bakewell :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: and yes i'm rushed as well, just had to reboot out ubuntu intranet :)
<knightwise> MooDoo: i've spent the entire day yesterday on the couch alreaddy
<MooDoo> knightwise: i had 2 days off, went back on the third day and regrested it lol
<zmoylan-pi> we've all had our regrests... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Go home. Infecting your colleagues won't help. Unless it's that guy from accounting....he deserves it!
<TwistedLucidity> Also, you don't have the flu. If you had the flu, you'd know about it.
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Book July 31st to Aug 7th and come to the LinuxBierWanderung on the Isle of Man.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Common Courtesy Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> dems fighting words...
 * knightwise is a freelancer : No work = no pay
<zmoylan-pi> then sleep under a desk and claim to be checking for a faulty cable if woken/disturbed... :-)
<diplo> Anyone use MATE in here ?
<zmoylan-pi> the beverage or the software... :-)
<diplo> The beverage ?
<diplo> Didn't know there was one by that name :D
<diplo> Just wondering wondering if anyone can recommend a app launcher via super key
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club-Mate usually referred to just mate by those i hear who drink a _lot_ of it...
<diplo> :) - appears to sell in the UK but never seen it
<knightwise> diplo: kupfer !
<zmoylan-pi> hacker space in dublin constantly runs out... and then orders a huge amount...
<diplo> Cheers knightwise, installing now
<awilkins> Club-Mate have a .co.uk
<awilkins> Their online shop is out of 500 and 330ml bottles
<awilkins> Boo
<awilkins> They have the Winter Edition
<zmoylan-pi> they do seem to have a hard time keeping stock in here too...
<awilkins> With extra spices
<awilkins> And the pomegranate one
<awilkins> Was gonna order a crate for the hackspace
<awilkins> Seeing as all the cool kids drink it
<zmoylan-pi> to get them hooked? :-)
<awilkins> Not tried it
<awilkins> But we have one member who goes on about the dry tea version
<zmoylan-pi> they all seem to come back from c3 with a taste for the stuff...
 * awilkins signed up for an email notifier of stock
<awilkins> Wonder what the shipping is
<awilkins> https://open.spotify.com/track/0NcYJeUQMTvVIZGGduJWX3
<awilkins> What's the Crabb bollocks?
<foobarry> ahem
<awilkins> Ah, wrong channel. Apologies for out of turn language.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: But now we're all curious....
<awilkins> Oh, just Crabb already coming out with stuff about Work Related Activity Group
<TwistedLucidity> Oh....b-o-r-i-n-g-!
<awilkins> https://www.facebook.com/StephenCrabbPembs/posts/1123686301014718
<awilkins> "These people are in the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) and they do have a disability or illness but are able to work."
<awilkins> Whereas I believe that the DWPs own letter for that explicitly says "You're not fit for work"
<TwistedLucidity> If I those words are true, will we see the various contracts removed from Atos?
<TwistedLucidity> I have a mate with a back injury. Atos keeps approving him for work, he goes to the doctor, then appeals and Atos get told off.
<TwistedLucidity> He's stated that next time he's going to take their job, end up in hospital and then sue.
<TwistedLucidity> I can't imagine his doctor is pleased with this strategy...
<TwistedLucidity> Still, it'll all be water under the bridge once we have AI super-robots to do all the work for us and we only need to "work" about 4 hours a week. Glorious, technological utopia!
<TwistedLucidity> Nothing can go wrong.
<ujjain> what is the line called that you use with a needle to repair something?
<popey> thread
<foobarry> just received my free privacy filter \o/
<foobarry> think these cost around 30-40 quid usually
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: What's one of them, then?
<foobarry> those polaroid thingies
<TwistedLucidity> Ooo, for the screen? Luckily for me Lenovo screens are so bad you can barely read them when you are sat in front of them, let alone off to the side.
<foobarry> to stop shoulder surfers
<TwistedLucidity> It's a feature!
<diplo>  My  privacy filter is telling them to not very politely leave :D
<foobarry> ok i admit its for surfing irc in meetings
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Honesty prevails
<zmoylan-pi> can't you just knit a balaclava that fits over your head and the screen and not be weird? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> or just buy one... http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/01/laptop-compubody-sock-gives-you-privacy-as-you-work/
<davmor2> it's nice to have a gui back
 * zmoylan-pi consoles my console
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeap I use a terminal most of the day for running things, but hexchat and a browser and email client and..... are much nicer in a gui :)
<diplo>  Does hexchat let you tile windows davmor2 ?
<davmor2> diplo: how do you mean?
<zmoylan-pi> multiple windows inside the app?
<diplo> Just found the website and it doesn't look like it..
<diplo> yup
<davmor2> diplo: you can have tab and tree views
<diplo> I miss that from mIRC days, can sort of do it with irssi
<diplo> I just used to like viewing convos in multiple channels without having to swap :)
<diddledan> I believe quassel does that
<diddledan> or you could not emulate mirc in wine
<diplo> hehe just read that
<diddledan> (wine is not an emaulator, so you're "not emulating" :-p)
<diplo> heh not *that* bothered :)
<zmoylan-pi> there must be hundreds of irc clients... a few must do it
<diplo> Not really
<diddledan> ooh, I forgot about apple
 * diddledan fires-up a streaming window
<diddledan> starts in 25
<zmoylan-pi> the new small iphone will be a giant new iwatch... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, maybe they'll just release a strap for an iphone6plus to attach it to your wrist?
<zmoylan-pi> you too can be like leela in futurama...
<zmoylan-pi> just less cool
<diddledan> hmm, I think I need to reboot to watch the keynote
<diddledan> needs win10+edge
<diddledan> I could fish-out my ipad I guess
<zmoylan-pi> not much pre show speculation on this unveiling
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if we are going to be surprised
<diddledan> hah. they're running beats1 in the stream over the static image placeholder
<daftykins> i noticed that :>
<daftykins> i'm watching from Edge! for once non-Apple devices are allowed to be underwhelmed too
<mapps> billions is so good
<mapps> the show
<sebsebseb> hi
<diddledan> I ordered a pair of yubikeys earlier today - arriving tomorrow hopefully
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<diddledan> yey for amazon prime :-p
<daftykins> i saw cheap cadburys creme eggs on amazon earlier!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> last year's fake recipe?
<daftykins> they were an addon item though so you can't just buy them on their own :(
<sebsebseb> I just seen something interesting
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01AWTNO92
<popey> sebsebseb: pong
<daftykins> creme eggs for all!
<popey> diabetes for all!
<sebsebseb> popey: heh just saw something interesting that your CEO tweeted about Jane
<diddledan> wow that is cheap compared to 24 and 48 egg packs
<daftykins> diddledan: i had to stop myself buying an item just to allow me to buy the creme eggs (as it's an add-on item, can't be bought on its' own)
<daftykins> and sadly you can't just buy 5 either ;)
<popey> sebsebseb: our CEO _IS_ Jane
<daftykins> perhaps it was self referential ;D
<sebsebseb> popey: yes  the Canonial one
<sebsebseb> popey: anyway this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nexdock-the-world-s-most-affordable-laptop--2/x/4233804#/
<sebsebseb> that makes sense, plug in various devices  tablets phones, etc, and then get a lap top basically
<diddledan> I'm confused. canonical's CEO is Jane.
<sebsebseb> diddledan: I think he meant Canonical not just him personally heh, but I meant Canonical all along
<diddledan> sebsebseb, are you maybe confused sabdfl for someone who is in charge?
<sebsebseb> diddledan: he's not CEO anymore
<diddledan> sebsebseb, I know. you said the canonical ceo tweeted about jane. but jane IS the canonical ceo
<sebsebseb> diddledan: no I meant Jane the Canonical CEO tweeted about this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nexdock-the-world-s-most-affordable-laptop--2/x/4233804#/
<popey> he never was ceo
<diddledan> ^ that
<daftykins> that nexdock won't work because it'll require people buying windows 10 smartphones ;D
<popey> Anyway, yes, I have seen nexdock
<sebsebseb> daftykins: no I think it works with anything
<popey> it works with non-windows
<daftykins> well lets not let facts get in the way of an amusing statement
<sebsebseb> daftykins: altough it did sound like they were selling it like you can do WIndows 10 on this, if that's what you eant
<sebsebseb> meant
<daftykins> nah i just wanted to tease Microsoft's ailing mobile platform
<diddledan> Tim Cook's on-stage
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah can plug in those Remi Mini's as well, and RASSBERY PI'S, and tablets and phones and yeah, looks useful :)
<popey> yeah, doesn't look like it will hit the target
<sebsebseb> apparantly it's llike connecting a device to a TV, but yes one that has it's own screen, and mouse and keyboard
<daftykins> diddledan: wow it has a fullscreen button!
<sebsebseb> well it's on like 60% and there's a month left so maybe
<popey> I can see a use for it among nerds
<popey> not so much among the mass populace
<sebsebseb> yes amoung nerds/geeks that's us though isn't it :d ?
<daftykins> i feel that convergence devices would be 'fun' but ultimately not decent enough to really get anything done
<popey> sure
<popey> you need more than nerds to make it viable
<popey> jump that chasm
<sebsebseb> daftykins: I think convergence will be interesting, but  be mainly for geeks/nerds to
<sebsebseb> not the main streame
<diddledan> daftykins, for now. in the future with ever-more powerful and small devices it might be more compelling
<popey> we'll see :)
<daftykins> the specs are definitely jumping at a miraculous pace but eh, who knows
<sebsebseb> the specs of what?
<daftykins> smartphones
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu ones ?
<daftykins> i do not consider there to be any
<diddledan> I want a squid-core cpu
<daftykins> i'm talking about all smartphones
<diddledan> (octopus)
<daftykins> i've begun to see that convenience always wins out over sensible techie angles anyway
<diddledan> nice stat there from apple
<diddledan> 93% renewable worldwide eneergy use by apple facilities
<sebsebseb> popey: you want nexdock :d ?
<daftykins> apple data centres might well be powered by these sources, but what about the fact that most of their backend infrastructure is in AWS or Azure?
<diddledan> they're also in google cloud
<diddledan> I expect they're using azure too but I don't have any knowledge of that
<zmoylan-pi> i thought apple was powered by smugness? :-)
<popey> sebsebseb: not really
<sebsebseb> popey: why not got lots of TV's to plug  things in anyway :d ?
<sebsebseb> and monitors
<popey> i have no need for it right now
<popey> maybe in the future
<popey> and it is too low res IMO
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah I remember what you said to me before about that particular res, how it was apparatly bad etc
<sebsebseb> altough thisl ap top has that and been ok
<popey> it's 2016, 1366x768 needs to die
<daftykins> 1366x768 is indeed the devil res, also a cheap and nasty TN panel, eww
<sebsebseb> Tn Panel?
<sebsebseb> and the device is some CHINESE made thing, so I guess may not be that great really ,but good enough for what it dos
<diddledan> twisty numerics
<sebsebseb> does
<daftykins> twisted neumatic is the type of LCD where the colours wash out when you aren't looking at them straight on, horrible looking and horrible to use
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> I am a bit hmm to crowd funindg now, since it seems I have lost money on one, since the guy behind that one got silly etc...
 * popey checks his spreadsheet
<popey> I've crowdfunded 50 things it seems
 * diddledan giggles at popey's prolific crowd funding
<sebsebseb> popey: really you done 50
<sebsebseb> I only done like three so far
<popey> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_--0TYP3TD7i6dPnJmB9oB66iuU9_qS7ApBtKTS8bug/edit#gid=0
<popey> you can probably see that sheet
<sebsebseb> popey: I need premssion
<sebsebseb> can request access
<sebsebseb> to your spread sheet
<popey> fixed
<popey> just refresh
<popey> anyone can view I think
<popey> yes, checked in an incognito window
<diddledan> CareKit not to be confused with CarKit
<popey> or indeed Car KITT
<diddledan> !!
<daftykins> "Michael, i'm still under NDA"
<sebsebseb> popey: that's interesting
<sebsebseb> popey: that you kept a log of it like that as well heh
<popey> there's data missing
<popey> when I get a spare moment I will fill in the columns at the end
<sebsebseb> popey: have you lost money to any of this crowd funding for any reason?  lost as in it's been paid for, but you didn't get something back for it for whatever reason
<diddledan> wasn't Kitt voiced by Mr Belding(spellign?) from saved by the bell?
 * sebsebseb glad I didn't pay even more money to that guy, he was trying to get more out of me since...
<popey> only one I think
<sebsebseb> which one was that?
<popey> oh, no a few
<sebsebseb> oh a few oh
<sebsebseb> why?
<popey> The Firefox OS stick thing, I got a refund though
<sebsebseb> ok refund that's ok
<sebsebseb> and yep Jolla tablet re fund coming soon
<sebsebseb> well half of it
<sebsebseb> then the next later
<popey> hah
<sebsebseb> why hah? it's ok,  having that money back means I can spend it on other tech instead :d
<daftykins> that will also fall flat :D
<sebsebseb> daftykins: what if it's crowd funded?
<daftykins> what if what? i have no idea what you're asking
<sebsebseb> or you mean JOlla coing out with the sedcond batch of re fund money as well llike they have  said
<popey> sebsebseb: don't take everything daftykins says seriously. he's joking :)
<sebsebseb> popey: did you see that Ubuntu device  that was being crowd funded? an unoffical one
<sebsebseb> but the idea was to have like an Ubuntu lap top, that would then get Ubuntu touch later
<popey> mj one?
<sebsebseb> yep that
<daftykins> popey: ta!
<sebsebseb> popey: I think I won't bother with that, and just get the offical Ubuntu BQ tablet instead, however  the hardware specs are meant to be better on the mj
<popey> hardware specs on non-existent devices are often great, yes.
<sebsebseb> heh yeah I suppouse
<daftykins> vapourware can be amazing :>
<sebsebseb> and yeah they  had a prototype maybe I don't ermember now quite, but they were still crowd fudnign something, that may not work out
<popey> I have no idea if the MJ one has trademark approval
<sebsebseb> popey: I guess it's Thursday for the BQ tablet is actsaully ready for sale now annoucmenet maybe heh.  apparnatly one of the Meizu devices got cancalle since an equathquake to I read somd where
<popey> not heard that
<sebsebseb> apparnatly that other Ubuntu touch device crowd funded form the other year was a scam to, but I think that went actsaully on sale some where, I was reaidng something the other day
<diddledan> sounds like the rumours of a cheap ipwn are true
<sebsebseb> a cheap what?
<popey> iPhone SE
<popey> 4 inch iphone
<sebsebseb> oh right I am not interested in iphone really
<sebsebseb> I did get a ipad air for cheapr hten the UK price last year though,  by like half
<diddledan> SE = small edition?
<popey> If I wanted an iPhone, I'd totally get the SE
<sebsebseb> apparnatly we need a LInux phone as well, since some verizen spyware cookie or whatever that was thing I Read about earlier to  heh
<daftykins> they were a lot beyond rumours :) i don't know whether they've gotten lax with their security or whether i just see those articles more now
<daftykins> (security in terms of leaking future device plans)
<popey> more eyeballs on them
<daftykins> well most seem to claim it's leaks from the Chinese factories more so
<daftykins> must not be breaking enough legs as in Jobs' time
<TwistedLucidity> I really need a new phone...bit sure I want another Android one though...
<TwistedLucidity> "but not sure"
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: Android aww, what's wong with Ubuntu touch
<sebsebseb> I did see acstaully that you corrected that to but not sure
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: Yeah, typo
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: have you got an Ubuntu phone?
<daftykins> sebsebseb: is it even finished... :P
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: No. Too expensive to shell out for sight-unseen
<sebsebseb> daftykins: I don't know ask popey :D heh
<TwistedLucidity> And I'd be worried about app availability (sorry popey).
<popey> Is any OS ever finished?
<diddledan> oh dear. ios 9.3 is launched meaning the internet is going to be slow for the next few hours
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: about 140 pounds for the BQ  E5 HD from last year the better of the two BQ ones.  and the Meziu MX 4 no longer sold, but the Meizu Pro 5 should sell for about 200 I guess, and that is a good hardware speced phone it seems
<daftykins> popey: bit of a duck ;)
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: but yes if you want loads of Android apps, Ubuntu phone isn't realy it at the moment, since there is no compatabilty layour such as in the Jolla phone whicnh you can get for cheap
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: Jolla phone is quite good actsaully, but the hardware is more old now
<popey> TwistedLucidity: no need to apologise, it's an ongoing issue
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Well start whipping them harder! :-D
<popey> On it
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: Jolla phone runs Salifish OS which is quite nice,  which  is run by Wayland and BTFS even.  yes Jolla has just messed up with the tablet since an invester issue etc,  but it's still a good phone
<sebsebseb> plus can run the up dated version of the OS on the phone anyway
<sebsebseb> you could get a Firefox OS phone,  but that will run even less app wise than UBuntu phone :d
<popey> and it will get no updates at all
<sebsebseb> and Mozilla have given up on it as a phone OS, onlhy for other things now, such as the Panasonic TV's
<TwistedLucidity> And *actual* GNU/Linux phone removes some issues (e.g. needing an SSH app), other things...err...Emby should be doable quickly enough. But iPlayer?
<popey> iplayer works on ubuntu phone
<TwistedLucidity> It's the whole chicken/egg issue
<popey> missing download function, but streaming works
<sebsebseb> still if a Firefox OS phone interests you for about 50 pounds you can find one progbably still on Amzon I think
<popey> buying a firefox os phone makes no sense.
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Neat. Did not know. Assumed it was like desktop Linux - no support bar website
<popey> it is a website
<popey> :)
<TwistedLucidity> Sneaky bugger
<popey> but it works fine, html5
<TwistedLucidity> It is actually pretty nice.
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: a lot ot stuff is web apps with Ubuntu touch, but there are also some nice enough native apps
<sebsebseb> but if you want your standard Android apps going to lack that sure
<TwistedLucidity> The other channels should have jumped in with the BBC when they had the chance. Best catch-up service ever.
<popey> yeah
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: I am losing my pathological hatred of webapps. The conditioning must be working
 * sebsebseb forgot what that blame popey app actsaully was, so just opended it up again, and yep some pontless thing heh
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: but if you like the look of popey for some odd reason,  it has a photo of him heh.  that's a selling point of an Ubuntu Phone right there :d
<TwistedLucidity> Anyway, roll on 16.04 and the plethora of new features!
<daftykins> new features like being installable on current hardware \o/
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: the new Meizu Ubuntu Phone, seems  like good hardware, but can't quite do convergence
<sebsebseb> or not in the standard way
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure if convergence is soemthing I should be mega-excited over, or a passing fad. I mean, it sounds totaly cool...just not sure when I'd use it.
<TwistedLucidity> Scopes though, that's a thing that seems awesome.
<sebsebseb> daftykins: and that uhmm file system,  that the debabe is if  Ubuntu is really allowed to have it or not
<TwistedLucidity> Right, I have big bouncy dogs that need walked
<TwistedLucidity> Night
<daftykins> sebsebseb: ZFS chatter? couldn't care less
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yep that
<sebsebseb> apparnatly legally it make not be compatiable with some liscenes so
<sebsebseb> but also apparnatly is the like best file system that exists
<popey> depends which lawyer you ask
<sebsebseb> and as a comment on some site basically said, and well Canonical actually has money for lawyers anyway so
<sebsebseb> popey: I wasn't suppirsed when I saw that the Free Software Controversy weren't happy about that htough
<popey> some were
<popey> some weren't
<popey> I wouldn't lump all lawyers or all free software developers together
<popey> It misrepresents the reaction
<sebsebseb> what's the worst thing that can happen, Canonical gets sued for not being compatible with some lissence taken to court?
<popey> Not sure that's the worst.
<popey> I can think of worse things.
<sebsebseb> got to pay up a big fine
<popey> But that's for the lawyers.
<sebsebseb> that can't  really be paid
<sebsebseb> daftykins: why don't you like ZFS chatter?
<daftykins> sebsebseb: i just think it's totally irrelevant outside of enterprise level storage (or enthusiast level at home) so why it should be commented on so much is irrelevant to most folks
<daftykins> when people came in #ubuntu wanting to run ZFS i suggested going and using a distro where it is supported
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yes I see your point, but it's a legal thing that could effect Canonical/Ubuntu more so as a whole I guess, depending on what happens?
<sebsebseb> well that is 16.04 soon
<daftykins> well i'm not invested in either.
<sebsebseb> I think no distros really support it as such since the legal side?
<daftykins> nah that's not what i understand
<sebsebseb> daftykins: but in general I am like you,  for personal use etc,  file shystem eh, so what really as long as I can open up my files etc :). a ltough  btfs snap shots could be nice to but not used those yet
<daftykins> no, i'm not saying that i'm at that level - because i do use, manage and support large RAID arrays
<daftykins> but listening to some open source drama in the news about something non-finalised, that's when i feel it's moot to my own interests
<sebsebseb> yeah ,but open source world LInux world etc, is full of opinion etc in general
<sebsebseb> and people like whining on the Internet about things in general to it seems
<sebsebseb> in comments on various blog posts etc
<sebsebseb> or the blog posts them selves at times even etc
<daftykins> that's why this is one i don't want to touch :)
<sebsebseb> but yep some tings are just drama like that really, or mostly
<sebsebseb> even uefi was  really not completly but a lot of it before
<sebsebseb> uefi secure boot
<daftykins> we still get the ones coming in #ubuntu crying about it, but the truth is it's workable in 99% of cases (installing to a machine with secure boot)
<sebsebseb> yep indeed
<daftykins> hmm seems i might have sorted the sleep issues on this clients' surface pro 4, what a buggy device it's been
<sebsebseb> daftykins: hmm with Windowws?
<daftykins> well i wouldn't go installing ubuntu on it - that'd be an even worse experience :)
<sebsebseb> heh how so?
<sebsebseb> but yeah those are pretyt much tighted to Windows I think ?
<daftykins> if the EFI has sleep bugs and issues with even Windows, what makes you think Ubuntu would work any good?
<daftykins> nah standard EFI controls
<sebsebseb> ah right I didn't know about that, I don't really know about the sufface pro 4
<sebsebseb> but yes if EFI is going to have issues with even Windows, indeed it's likely to with LInux distros to
<daftykins> well even without that, ubuntu tends to work worse on any and all ultraportable or touch-screen devices i think it's fair to say
<daftykins> for power management and the like
<sebsebseb> really why you think that? is there an exception to it at all then :d, such as  the Ubuntu touch offical devices? bq meizu
<daftykins> i should caveat my comments with the point that my angle is always to get really good battery life out of things - and installing any Linux has never worked well imo
<sebsebseb> hmm got disconnected there wireless
<daftykins> what did you last see?
<sebsebseb> for power management and the like
<sebsebseb> not sure you got my message
<sebsebseb> after that
<sebsebseb> [18:17] <sebsebseb> really why you think that? is there an exception to it at all then :d, such as  the Ubuntu touch offical devices? bq meizu
<daftykins> i should caveat my comments with the point that my angle is always to get really good battery life out of things - and installing any Linux has never worked well imo <-- i added that bit
<sebsebseb> daftykins: Linux on computer on lap tops, and phones via well Andorid or Ubuntu, seems to generally be all fine for me,  and Jolla phone to.  FIrefox phone.  yeah the first bq ubuntu phone had a bad battery life it seems, but other than that.  but yeah you will have differnet devices computers etc, and true Wndows can work better at times for battery
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> Windows phone ftw
<sebsebseb> diddledan: yeah totally! :d
<ali1234> whats the best website for free online surveys?
<ali1234> alternatively which one do you hate the least?
<popey> we use surveymonkey, or google forms
<ali1234> ah, google forms...
<ali1234> might be a good idea. i need to make a survey for someone else and we both have gmail accounts
<diddledan> Googley
 * diddledan googleys  daftykins
<davmor2> diddledan: stop pretending you can bowl
<ali1234> surveymonkey's homepage seems to be broken... google forms is nice though
<diddledan> my ithingies are updating
<daftykins> ;]
<davmor2> ipatch it's the prirate of software
<daftykins> plundering your booty
<daftykins> oops i stole diddledan's line ;D
<diddledan> I feel violated
<daftykins> diddledan: well you did buy Apple ;D
<mapps> what to watch next
<daftykins> the real life sunset!
<mapps> migh watch pelts
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0779496/
<MSponge> Anyone mind telling me wat UbuntuBSD is ?
<MSponge> https://bsd.slashdot.org/story/16/03/21/0321213/meet-ubuntubsd-unix-for-human-beings
<popey> It's apparently Ubuntu without a Linux kernel, but BSD kernel.
<MSponge> How does that work, then ?
<popey> I would imagine you boot it on a computer
 * MSponge has been looking at lilliputting website to ask popey if asian phones can be ported.
<popey> asian phones?
<popey> all phones are asian :)
<MSponge> I'm looking.
<MSponge> I'm just listenin' to ubuntupodcast.
<MSponge> I'm the guy who has the subreddit. Looks brill. doesn't it !
<MSponge> but enough 'bout me.
<MSponge> popey, Can you use Multiboot on the Meixu phones ?
<popey> Yes, I know who you are :)
<popey> Dunno, never used multiboot on any phone
<popey> We generally don't test that scenario
<popey> others do though
<MSponge> Kinda sucks without Cynagen Apps.
<MSponge> e.g. My Uncle asked me to join "Life360" in an email to stay in touch.
 * MSponge gets life. life. and no parole.
<MSponge> Did you know Ubuntu360.com is for sale ?
<daftykins> that's a pretty terrible domain
 * MSponge looks at his xbox360 & grins.
<daftykins> useful if someone got it running on a... but you wouldn't want to do that since it's rubbishy PPC :D
<MSponge> Can be done though, to be sure ;)
<MSponge> Arrrgh pirated xbox360 on ubuntu, .....grrrreat.
<daftykins> er what makes the console 'pirated' ?
<MSponge> Needs an indiegogo.
<MSponge> Dunno. compardres commandeering stuff. Sounds like when I had the mind of a pirate kid.
<MSponge> I spoke to the dev. on the linux version for it on jit.si 2 months ago.
<MSponge> He lives in Sweden.
<MSponge> Only problem is they can't get the dvd to eject. So he says.
<daftykins> i would think the 512MB RAM is a bigger problem than that
<MSponge> But they all use USB to boot-into it.
<daftykins> it'd make more sense to put some effort toward running on the PS4 (which i've seen) and xbox one now, i would say
<MSponge> Wats happening with venues for 16.04 release anyway ?
<daftykins> pass
<MSponge> #party +ubuntu ?
<daftykins> no i think the channel is normally #ubuntu-release-party or similar
<daftykins> !channels
<lubotu3> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist and !alis - See also !Guidelines
<MSponge> yes, i know that - it always v. quiet, even on the day.
<daftykins> ok i just misunderstood your use of #party then
<MSponge> Sorry that's just to say (I hope it goes Meta again).
<MSponge> The ubuntu subreddit has gone very symantic lately.
<MSponge> "What to pasck when wandering in the Ubuntu Universe " etc.
<MSponge> popey, good show. I didn't like the microsoft stuff, but that says more about me than yous.
<MSponge> Anyone buying into Lunduke's latest escapade ?
<MSponge> http://lunduke.com/2016/03/18/linux-is-badass-signed-hardback-print-edition-limited-run/
<MSponge> I like the old Cuba, personally. but that only because my beards bigger than that Cuban guys.
<MSponge> As soon as POTUS landed several US hotel chains said they'd open up chains in the capital etc. & they call that progress!!?
<daftykins> i used to quite enjoy this channel for being -uk since it afforded me an avoidance of US politics from every other channel...
<MSponge> Ok, wats your topic-of-the-day, then ? daftykins.
<daftykins> the wonderful ignore function and its' many merits
<daftykins> ;)
<MSponge> I suppose nothing else matters then.
<MSponge> (Metallica)
<MSponge> popey, Can you help me with a project for a second ?
<MSponge> or at least see if there's any holes, in it ?
<MSponge> It's alright - I'll survive.
<daftykins> pretty late GMT, throw it by #ubuntu-offtopic
<MSponge> cant get on #ubuntu-offtopic at all. It asks for an IRC mask. Don't get it really.
<MSponge> don't worry ... I have my own personal subreddit to post ideas on (diarising them). So I'll manage it.
<MSponge> github was down today though. Jono said it was back up to me too.
 * MSponge wanders off.
<Myrtti> no it asks you to be identified to the services, nickserv
<MSponge> oh wait.
<MSponge> yeah, I cant do that successfully.
<celesteh> I've got a facebook note saying my computer is being attacked by malware. I'm on Ubuntu 15.10 running the version of firefox in the repos.
<daftykins> why not? it's easy.
<popey> MSponge: sorry, was afk
<popey> well, at another keyboard :)
<daftykins> celesteh: 'note' ?
<daftykins> sounds like spam
<MSponge> I want an ubuntu nickserv name, really.
<daftykins> you'd have to be a member i think
<popey> !membership
<lubotu3> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember
<popey> ^ that
<celesteh> It logged me out and then when i log in, it directs me to a page saying my system needs to be cleaned of malware
<popey> you should not need an ubuntu mask to enter offtopic
<MSponge> I'm on launchpadf, is that good enough ?
<popey> what happens when you join the channel?
<celesteh> 'It looks like your computer is being affected by malware. Weâll help you fix the problem to keep your account secure and prevent malware from spreading to friends. ' daftykins
<MSponge> popey, It's ok. I keep getting into trouble there canyway. Best keep with my halo, atmo.
<daftykins> celesteh: checked your addon list? cleared your cache?
<celesteh> when I click next, it tells me to run anti virus software
<daftykins> i'd test a clean browser profile personally
<MSponge> Here's an article for you: http://www.howtogeek.com/209320/how-to-set-up-and-use-multiple-profiles-user-accounts-in-firefox/
<HaloSponge> popey, What's happening with OggCamp ?
<popey> HaloSponge: http://oggcamp.org/the-ghost-of-oggcamp-yet-to-come/
<HaloSponge> well. i suppose id like to help out, then.
 * HaloSponge facepalms at the consequences.
<HaloSponge> Oh wait = I've arrived here; http://saloon.sixgun.org/c/oggcamp
<celesteh> cheers daftykins and msponge. I'm running clamscan just in case...
<daftykins> celesteh: was a clean profile safe from the oddness?
<HaloSponge> popey: I shall revisit this topic.. interesting to me.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-22
<celesteh> Doing the virus scan first, in the hopes that it would catch a naughty plugin. Facebook is keeping it's own tabs on me, making me swear to have done a virus scan before it will let me back on, so I'm not sure a clean profile would help ( as I would certainly want to return to my normal profile)
<celesteh> If one of my plugins has turned evil, I thin they would actually throw me off at some point. I don't like facebook, but I don't want to get banned either
<daftykins> there are never many though, so you should be able to tell at a glance (Firefox plugins)
<celesteh> Yeah, I installed a few tab managers that I don't want to disable, as I fear I would loose my many many unloaded but open tabs
<daftykins> hehe, bookmark them
<celesteh> disabled greasemonkey...
<celesteh> I know I should. it's just gotten so out of control. I found a tab a few days ago that had been open for two years...
<daftykins> oh my word - i think you might have to call Guinness about that
<HaloSponge> I'm happy & going to bed. http://i.imgur.com/rSnauy7.jpg
<m0nkey_> DOTT has been REMASTERED! :-D http://dott.doublefine.com/
<m0nkey_> Can't wait for it's release this month :)
<HaloSponge> m0nkey_: Yes I saw the campaign, there. thanks.
<mapps> who's still up
<HaloSponge> me's up.
<mapps> what ye doing
<HaloSponge> I had a nap.
<mapps> hah
<HaloSponge> reddit.
<HaloSponge> https://www.reddit.com/r/LinuxCirclejerk/
<HaloSponge> mapps, Whats your favourite drink ?
<mapps> non alcoholic? vimto
<mapps> but i dont drink it..rots your teeth..soo much sugar;p
<HaloSponge> https://i.imgur.com/h8ymxyr.jpg
<m0nkey_> that's Geoff
<mapps> do you guys watch many series?
<m0nkey_> Also known as the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust
<m0nkey_> http://www.topgear.com/videos/top-gear-tv/hammerhead-eagle-i-thrust-part-13-series-14-episode-2
<mapps> LOL at the pic HaloSponge
<HaloSponge> There's a contest over on reddit. https://redd.it/4bfmmp
<mapps> :D
<HaloSponge> mapps, you vape ?
<mapps> gonna watch an ep of blindspot
<mapps> nah
<HaloSponge> k
<ali1234> is that a real car or photoshop?
<HaloSponge> hi ali1234
<HaloSponge> not sure, really.
<ali1234> it's off top gear
<HaloSponge> the ganoo bit looks photoshopped.
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCSNCs7bwCw
<HaloSponge> ali1234, hows it going ?
<ali1234> you know. just watching some top gear
<HaloSponge> right-oh
<ali1234> then going to bed
<HaloSponge> thanks for the download-helper extension. really good, cheers
<HaloSponge> really helped.
<HaloSponge> what s your blog again /
<HaloSponge> ^ ?
<ali1234> who me?
<HaloSponge> yes
<ali1234> i don't really have one
<HaloSponge> tweeter ?
<ali1234> no
<HaloSponge> G+
<HaloSponge> ^?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> not so much lately though
<HaloSponge> alister buxton wasn't it ?
<ali1234> close enough
<HaloSponge> I'll have alook.
<HaloSponge> nothing since 2015 :(
<ali1234> i haven't had much time to post things
<HaloSponge> what you been up-to /
<HaloSponge> ^?
<ali1234> teletext stuff
<HaloSponge> sounds ambiguous.
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext
<HaloSponge> doesn't a VHS only last 8 years thou ?
<ali1234> nah
<ali1234> more like 50 if you store it right
<ali1234> you have to distinguish between "a" VHS and all VHS though
<HaloSponge> You do Raspberry, then ?
<HaloSponge> I'm getting a Kano. Wud you recommend it ?
<ali1234> never heard of it
<HaloSponge> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/kano-kickstart-a-pi-desktop-machine-in-a-box/
<ali1234> seems fine
<HaloSponge> cheers.
<mapps> hm
<mapps> fell asleep watching tv
<mapps> i need to get a blanket i can use for the sofa and some curtains for lounge, only got blinds..so cant sleep there well
<zmoylan-pi> you need a blanket with sleeves for sleeping on sofa
<mapps> watched 3 eps of blindspot:)
<mapps> do you watch any tv series?
<zmoylan-pi> last week tonight is about it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy As Young As You Feel Day! ð
<HaloSponge> Morning, those with benefits.
<HaloSponge> It's Q&A day today !
<foobarry> been working on my large monitoring screen to show things
<foobarry> css makes me cry
<foobarry> i do this http://i.imgur.com/lcFImfV.png and then colleague says, that box need moving 2px down
<foobarry> then it messes everything up
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1-ZhrAsMO8
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like it would be easier to move the colleague...
<foobarry> then i end up with this http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img910/9066/gjxeFL.gif
<diplo> looks nice foobarry
<foobarry> whats more is the work behind the scenes to get the info
<foobarry> but its useful stuff
<diplo> I'd not worry about the styling any more than that, it's only for internal use ?
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> moo
<JamesTait> Baa
<foobarry> meh
<JamesTait> davmor2, not bad. âº
<davmor2> I thought it worked :)
<foobarry> heh http://i.imgur.com/eEtq0ec.jpg
<davmor2> oh the irony
<zmoylan-pi> and zincy to make it not rust :-)
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I remember having to do CSS. You get it looking correct in browser A, then browser B vomits a mess everywhere.
<TwistedLucidity> So you then have to spend an hour explaining to boss that browsers A, C, D, E thru to Z all agree to within a pixel but that B is IE and should be burnt at the stake.
<TwistedLucidity> Same deal with spreadsheets.
 * TwistedLucidity fetches pitchfork to deal with Excel
<TwistedLucidity> And that statue of "Wallace" is an utter abomination.
<zmoylan-pi> very gibsony
<TwistedLucidity> It's an affront
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you fool it's a statue it has aback and sides too
<HaloSponge> Good article: http://liliputing.com/2016/02/running-ubuntu-on-a-cherry-trail-intel-compute-stick-or-other-operating-systems.html
<HaloSponge> Looking bleak weatherwise, I guess. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#outlook
<sebsebseb> hi
<HaloSponge> sebsebseb: hi
<HaloSponge> Doing Q&A today ?
<sebsebseb> HaloSponge: what I don't do Ubuntu q and a
<sebsebseb> maybe your thinking of that other Seb
<HaloSponge> ubuntuonair.com/calendar/#calendar
<sebsebseb> popey: Have you seen the Brusseles news?
<popey> of course, yes.
<HaloSponge> yes, scarey.
<foobarry> only just saw it via fb
<sebsebseb> yeah my older brother just told me a little while ago
 * HaloSponge doesn't fascebook
<sebsebseb> just seen some Intenret stuff about it
 * foobarry doesn't news
 * sebsebseb was in Brussels at end of Janurary and early feb
 * HaloSponge points foobarry to the weather map, prev.
<foobarry> facebook seems to be working as a news delivery mechanism
<sebsebseb> foobarry: indeed it can do
<foobarry> my highly curated feed filters all/most depressing crap
<sebsebseb> popey: so FOSDEM in Brussels for you next year? :d
<foobarry> although i have too many teachers on my feed
<foobarry> teachers always moan
<sebsebseb> well at least didn't happen when I was at the air port
<diplo> knightwise lives in Brussels, bet its awful there atm
<MooDoo> exit
<MooDoo> oops
<diplo> :p
<sebsebseb> diplo: oh right and yeah I know someone who lives near the  airport to an extent
<sebsebseb> and indeed everything locked down public transport it seems
<HaloSponge> GameBoy Advance is 15 today. https://goo.gl/sBnKtV
<sebsebseb> HaloSponge: can buy those cheap second hand and games for them now
<sebsebseb> HaloSponge: oh q and a is in day now
<sebsebseb> and tuesday
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Yeah, place is apparently in near-total lockdown. (I've waffle-bothering chums in another channel)
<knightwise> anyone called me ?
<knightwise> Just checking in to say i'm ok :)
<diddledan> 11:56	diplo	knightwise lives in Brussels, bet its awful there atm
<popey> o/
<popey> Good to hear!
<diddledan> glad to hear you're good
<knightwise> thanx guys :)
<knightwise> we are pretty shaken up here. i live in tongeren which is about 90 km from brussels
<knightwise> but up to last month i worked in brussels
<knightwise> listening to the radio here and trying to keep up with the news
<foobarry> did they catch the people, or it was suicide attack?
<diddledan> Islamic State have apparently claimed responsibility
<knightwise> yep , just heard it on the news
<knightwise> its frustrating to see our police departments cant keep a secret
<knightwise> pictures that are meant for internal use end up on social media and stuff
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> those are usually the gruesome ones
<FreeSponge> knightwise: I bet there are bizzies everywhere, No ?
<diddledan> why does anyone need to see blood and gore other than for evidence purposes? I'd much rather those not be released publicly
<diddledan> how about something more lighthearted? http://boingboing.net/2016/03/22/britons-vote-to-name-287m-res.html
<zmoylan-pi> we live in the age of instant gratification... were people under fire will upload the pics/video instead of keeping their head down
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry darwin sorts it out... eventually
<diddledan> gotta love the darwin awards
<zmoylan-pi> i even like the movie... :-)
<LibreSponge> knightwise , alright there ?
<knightwise> LibreSponge: yep , safe and sound
<LibreSponge> good to hear it .. I need a MacBook Air converting to Ubuntu this summer - may pop in :)
<knightwise> haha :) you're always welcome
<knightwise> Where are you from ?
<LibreSponge> I spoke to you before - I'm the guy who had the wedding in Holland, last summer.
 * LibreSponge waits for the IKWhatYouDidLastSummer gag !
<knightwise> aaah yep ! I remember :)
<LibreSponge> nephew's doing well.
<LibreSponge> He likes to draw diggers.
<foobarry> who doesn't
<LibreSponge> orange ones.
<LibreSponge> http://www.breakingnews.ie/tech/new-batman-game-details-revealed-be-bruce-or-bat-726206.html
<LibreSponge> be Bruce or Bat
<asahadeo> Hi, is there anyone here?
<Myrtti> yeah
<asahadeo> Great.
<asahadeo> I am relatively new to Ubuntu - I installed Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS (now Ubuntu 14.04.4 LTS) on an old Dell Latitude laptop back in November.
<Myrtti> you've already upgraded it to 16.04?
<Myrtti> why?
<asahadeo> Haven't had much time to fully explore Ubuntu due to work, but looking to learn.
<asahadeo> I don't have 16.04, 14.04.
<asahadeo> It's a Dell Latitude D610 laptop.
<Myrtti> oh, I read wrong, continue
<asahadeo> I am not sure it would be able to handle 16.04 in any case :P
<asahadeo> 16.04 is the one that offers touchscreen capabilities...?
<asahadeo> Anyway, I am looking to contribute to the Ubuntu community, just unsure as to what sort of capacity...
<asahadeo> I am working as an apprentice web developer at the moment, learning some C++ and Javascript at home.
<zmoylan-pi> use, enjoy and help some person you know give it a try.  success \o/
<asahadeo> Thanks :)
<asahadeo> Trying to consider which team to go for first.
<asahadeo> Maybe I could join the bug testing team, learn some of the basics from there.
<popey> 19:32 < asahadeo> 16.04 is the one that offers touchscreen capabilities...?
<popey> no
<popey> 16.04 is the one that is very similar to 14.04
<popey> bug squad is a great place to start
<popey> also askubuntu :)
<asahadeo> <popey> 16.04 is the one that is very similar to 14.04
<asahadeo> I am pretty sure 16.04 was said to provide support for touchscreen devices, though...?
<asahadeo> At least, that's what a lot of people were hoping for.
<knightwise> popey: looking forward to the release
<foobarry> SuperMatt: are most rackspace positions onsite? or some are workfromhome?
 * diddledan bounces m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> sorry, applying an update to my FreeNAS box
<m0nkey_> that's where I run ZNC
<diddledan> gotcha bob
<diddledan> I'm messing about with yubikey
<diddledan> my Yubikeys now work for SSH and Git in addition to GPG/OpenPGP
<daftykins> diddledan: are you going to set them as required for boot? ;)
<diddledan> that sounds fun
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-23
<mapps> h
<mapps> hi
<mapps> any of the night folk awake;p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> star wars bluray rip is out
<daftykins> though i'm not a fan so meh :)
<mapps> nor am i
<mapps> new ep of schitts creek though
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> such a bad name
<mapps> night manager isnt too bad
<knightwise> morning everyone
<SuperMatt> foobarry: on site. You can work from home, but it's a bit of a pain if you don't have Windows
<davmor2> morning all you funky interwebs peoples
<bashrc_> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Near Miss Day! ð
<bashrc_> so, is there an ubuntu tablet now?
<bashrc_> I was just wondering
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> did I miss davmor2's song-of-the-day?
<diddledan> I thought maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkK8g6FMEXE cc: JamesTait
<davmor2> diddledan: JamesTait vanished offline I went with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2C5TjS2sh4
<davmor2> diddledan: there was also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4PlM85NJo
<diddledan> I miss big hair from the 80s :-p
 * davmor2 had hair he could sit on in the 80's now I only sit on the bit I got left when it is being cut :D
<diddledan> my hair is receding :-(
<diddledan> and going grey
<diddledan> and I'm only 33
<davmor2> diddledan: oooooooooh get you with your 33 I started receding at 18
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> thanks SuperMatt , all based in hayes, right?
<diddledan> quiet in here today
<velusunivers-sys> never say the q word
<zmoylan-pi> we're hunting wabbits...
<velusunivers-sys> im creating one atm
<velusunivers-sys> but struggling with a map system
<diddledan> mapping ftw!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-24
 * diddledan gets out his twanger
 * zmoylan-pi tunes my banjo
<velusunivers-sys> its for a virtual world diddledan but its not going well lol
<diddledan> ohdear
<diddledan> lurve the smell of new magazine print
<diddledan> ooh, popey is in this issue!
<velusunivers-sys> whats the mag?
<zmoylan-pi> linux voice
<diddledan> bingo
<velusunivers-sys> nice might get it
<diddledan> came s'morning
<velusunivers-sys> nice, and i met him at ogg camp last year,
<velusunivers-sys> i nearly put my foot in my mouth once with him good job i didnt
<diddledan> they need to make recordings of oggcamp in ogg format
<velusunivers-sys> yay lol they should lol
<velusunivers-sys> you ever seen big buck bunny
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> and elephants dream. and sintel.
<diddledan> and whatever the live-action was called
<velusunivers-sys> popey was showing it on a laptop at ogg camp and i thought they modeled bbb on popey lol it looks a lot like him
<velusunivers-sys> diddledan, you good with js?
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i've only ever seen that in video tests
<velusunivers-sys> ok lol
<velusunivers-sys> there are a few map systems for opensim but they are bad
<diddledan> I'm ok with JS
<velusunivers-sys> opps wrong chat lol
<diddledan> not an ex spurt tho I would state
<velusunivers-sys> im having trouble with a map system and leaflet.js i have got a few guys stumped with this
<daftykins> i'd be surprised if there weren't a JS channel
<daftykins> !alis
<lubotu3> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu or /msg alis list http
<velusunivers-sys> there is but you either get i will do it for $5000 p/hr or figgure it out your self
<daftykins> maybe if you're only there 10 minutes
<velusunivers-sys> i have been in the leaflet channel for 3 days now and got only the same response
<daftykins> ah good community then :>
<velusunivers-sys> yeah the best lol
<velusunivers-sys> but i have seen them help others, but then again the system that it is getting info from is complex so that might be why
<daftykins> could be the way you ask, too - that can make or break a help request
<velusunivers-sys> true
<velusunivers-sys> what you like with reading c#
 * daftykins looks at the channel
<daftykins> again, i would try more relevant places
<diddledan> she sell c-sharp sea shells by the sea shore
<mappps> hi
<LibreSponge> Morning, we had a boat crash today: http://manx.net/tv/mt-tv/isle-of-man-news-archive/March/2016 "Quite a lick !"
<LibreSponge> Gagh moghrey Jerdein - happens Every Thursday morning .
<LibreSponge> popey, Howdy - expecting some rainbows today :) perhaps white-doves around too !
<SuperMatt> foobarry: yup
<knightwise> hey LibreSponge !
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<popey> morning
<knightwise> hey popey :) Do you have any idea when we can throw our money at the ubuntu tablet ?
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/ubuntu-tablet-m10-goes-sale-monday
<popey> apparently
<knightwise> aha
<LibreSponge> knightwise: Hiya, Just discussing whether nuns can be vikings with BreakfastR ;) http://ow.ly/ZSKKU
<knightwise> ooohKey
<SuperMatt> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<LibreSponge> I shall never get spider oak to work on Crouton. Even for $125 a year as they advertise.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon ,
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> LibreSponge: So have you pimped the storage space for your Chromebook ?
<LibreSponge> knightwise: Not really. I tried Gallium. Worked ok. Not sure if I wanna go digging around ;)
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> Gallium ?
<knightwise> I'm looking around for a second hand thinkpad to play around with with linux.
<LibreSponge> Gallium OS : https://www.reddit.com/r/galliumos/
<LibreSponge> knightwise: I have one that gets stuck on thinkpad sticky keys. I have to over-ride it every boot. V. disturbing.
<knightwise> Looks pretty interesting
 * knightwise has a chromebook somewhere :) 
<LibreSponge> I've got a touch screen from  the UK amazon website last few years :)
<LibreSponge> I think they up dated the C720P for 2016 too.
<LibreSponge> love the white color - goes with my microsotf mouse.
<popey> I should sell this here branch new boxed chromebook
<popey> or give it to my mum
 * LibreSponge needs a new mouse that doesn't suck when you move the wheel on it.
<LibreSponge> Oh Moby's talking to me .. https://play.spotify.com/track/4WOvx1gdPtmW1c4rXeo0iO off his playlist.
<knightwise> me is listening to Carbon Based Lifeforms
<knightwise> (The band, not the biological classification)
<LibreSponge> knightwise: That sounds very Snowdy of you :)
<LibreSponge> I prefer the 'Women of Indie' genre.
<LibreSponge> knightwise: Yeah Gallium is not bad, but I don't like the name.
<LibreSponge> I did a hangout with the developer, and he's quite the narcissist.
<knightwise> hahah :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<LibreSponge> MooDoo:  Hiya, how-dy-doo-de
<MooDoo> :)
<LibreSponge> Carbon Based Lifeforms reminds of sommit like this : http://hackaday.com/2016/03/23/growing-algae-for-fun-and-profit/#comment-2964112
<knightwise> LibreSponge: you amaze and scare me at the same time :p
<knightwise> Hmm. podget looks like a pretty straight forward podcast client
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Chocolate Covered Raisins Day! ð
<sgbirch> Where is the upcoming final beta being discussed?
<sgbirch> I donât know my way around the Ubuntu channels
<popey> #ubuntu+1
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4V89Na3gbA
<MooDoo> thank you popey seeing as they never said it lol
<popey> heh
<foobarry> billie piper separated from laurence fox :S
<brobostigon> she was good in dr who, :)
<knightwise> A very good companion indeed
<popey> foobarry: back on your list, huh?
<foobarry> nah, never was :)
<foobarry> i wonder about the lives of actors that so many of them separate
<foobarry> claire > pond > billie
<zmoylan-pi> public eye, separate careers...
<foobarry> clara*
<popey> I used to quite like her.
<popey> I dunno if "so many" of them do
<popey> I'm sure there's plenty of them that don't.
<popey> I guess different professions have different stats for stay/split
<zmoylan-pi> what % of marriages fail? is acting above the mean?
<popey> are doctors/lawyers/bin-men/soldiers more or less likely to split than actors?
<popey> indeed
<foobarry> http://lexfridman.com/blogs/thoughts/2012/04/14/divorce-rates-by-profession/
<foobarry> jobs where you touch and/or kiss other ppl likely to end in divorce?
<knightwise> Shatner is still married after all these years to his first wife
<knightwise> foobarry: untrue. Busy careers tend to ruin marriages
<knightwise> + they get a lot of attention from other people so its easy to slip up
<zmoylan-pi> so 22% for actors, compared to 100% for astronauts who walked on the moon...
<foobarry> many actors spend large amounts of time out of work
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of actors do a lot of other jobs between acting...
<foobarry> voiceovers on my kids audio book CDs
<foobarry> and pimping themselves at glam events
<foobarry> and hanging out with an insecure crowd of luvvies
<foobarry> my mate used to do promotions, he said most of his coworkers described themselves as actors. although they never got any jobs
<foobarry> how can a grown man eat in such a vulgar manner with his mouth open? i don't understand. i have to leave the office, its too gross
<foobarry> he is 30ft away and i can hear everything
<zmoylan-pi> that's a recognised medical condition when you can't bear to hear someone eat iirc
<zmoylan-pi> misophonia
<popey> Speaking of voiceovers, if you want to do something worthwhile and near-zero effort - https://www.vocalid.co/
<popey> record your voice so someone with a medical condition who can't speak, can get a voice
<popey> I have been recording my voice for the MyCroft.ai thing
<popey> but my voice might be used by other people too.
<popey> It's quite clever
<popey> you just have to spend a few hours reading short passages of text.
<zmoylan-pi> it'll all bite you in the backside when one day hal won't open the pod bay doors and tells you using your own voice... :-)
<popey> :)
<popey> There's a nice video they show of a young girl getting a personalised voice based on a blend of hers and another "doner"
<foobarry> popey: whats the commitment>?
<popey> time
<popey> a few hours
<popey> spread over as long as you like
<foobarry> done in parts or in one go?
<foobarry> cool
<popey> yeah, they say don't do in one go
<velusunivers-sys> i have just signed up my self
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: not all humans find the noise of disgusting eaters intolerable?
<zmoylan-pi> nope... and it's often not all people but just a small % annoying a small %
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably other people there eating _not_ annoying you
<foobarry> yeah this guy is disgusting
<foobarry> everyone gawps in disbelief
<velusunivers-sys> i know one person who is a disgusting eater, the last time i went for a meal with them i was so embarassed i felt like just melting under the table
<knightwise> ouch
<velusunivers-sys> yeah i know at it was infront of a girl i was trying to get a date with
<foobarry> heh
<velusunivers-sys> i was trying to get a date with a lass i know that worked at pizza hut, and me and a friend had a meal there and he was so disgusting eater,
<foobarry> popey: do u know if they need british voices?
<velusunivers-sys> i would assume they need all accents
<popey> foobarry: i expect so, i recorded some this week and have already been "matched" with 3 UK people and a US guy
<foobarry> cool
<TwistedLucidity> "OK Al, you'll be unable to speak for a few months but we have this new vocalid thing. The best match for you appears to be 'Opinionated and permanently angry Irish-Scots git'..."
<diddledan> I'm sorry Dave
<TwistedLucidity> The vocalid thing looks cool, hope people don't troll it and turn it into this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/03/24/microsofts-teen-girl-ai-turns-into-a-hitler-loving-sex-robot-wit/
<TwistedLucidity> Bile rising...."vocal DNA"? Please, just say "information".
<TwistedLucidity> "blah-de-blah DNA" and the phrase "...reached out to..." need to die.
<TwistedLucidity>  /\ Proof of permanent angriness
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: haha
<diddledan> yey for corruptible AI
<TwistedLucidity> All intelligence is corruptable, look at children.
<diddledan> children are a perfect example - they turn into adults
<TwistedLucidity> Children are the problem!
<diddledan> KILL ALL THE CHILDREN
<TwistedLucidity> Isn't infantcide against the CoC?
<LibreSponge> I'm making my peace with some sun-dried tomato sandwiches ;)
<diddledan> probably is, yeah :-(
<velusunivers-sys> what are peoples views on letsencrypt?
<diddledan> awesome!
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35893804
<bashrc_> letsencrypt works
<diddledan> letsencrypt is awesome!
<MooDoo> i use letsencrypt it works for me
<TwistedLucidity> I really need to sort it out....
<TwistedLucidity> But first of I need to learn how to do simple things in apache, like create a virtual domain (or whatever it's called) foo.bar.com rather then bar.com/foo
 * TwistedLucidity has pathetic holes in their skillset
<popey> TwistedLucidity: they do check the recordings. dunno if they listen to them all though, you have to record 3000 odd of them :)
<TwistedLucidity> Or should that be "holes in their pathetic skillset"? :-D
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Your grinning visage landed on my doorstep yesterday avo.
<popey>  ð
<popey> sorry
<diddledan> ditto
<diddledan> I'm scared what might be inside when they say "inside the mind" of popey
<popey> lots of echo
<diddledan> lol
<popey> It's a bit rambly, sorry
<popey> he just put his phone down and pressed record and started asking questions
<TwistedLucidity> Mine is still sealed inside the plastic containment unit. I hold that holds.
<popey> all mine are :)
<popey> I haven't opened a single one
<popey> retirement fund ã
<TwistedLucidity> What? As insulation?
<TwistedLucidity> Knowing my luck, #1 will turn out to be worth â¬â¬â¬â¬â¬s or something
<popey> wifey looked at the pdf and said "OMG! That's our dining room!"
<popey> and then "OMG! The mess!"
<popey> and "Hah! Minecraft mug in the background"
<popey> etc
<popey> Not actually you know, _reading_ it :)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: If 16.04 isn't amazing, I know what I'm throwing darts at. :-D
<popey> hah
<TwistedLucidity> Although this here desktop is still 14.10 with far too many PPAs. Upgrading will be a pain. Shall probably just nuke & pave to be honest
<velusunivers-sys> popey it should of been an oggcamp mug in the bg
<popey> true
<popey> I did plan to give Graham an oggcamp mug for his coffee
<velusunivers-sys> nice
<diddledan> lmao @ screeching phone at daughter's recital
<popey> :)
<popey> true story
<diddledan> what did you do, fiddle with it to silence it or run out red-faced?
<Dave> is this a plan to get everyone to subscribe?
<LibreSponge> popey, have you got channel operator status back yet ? Anyone cud be running this train.
<diddledan> I didn't know it was lost
<LibreSponge> oh Ok.
<LibreSponge> it was on #ubuntu-community
<popey> wat
<diddledan> ?
<popey> you lot left, we were fine here
 * LibreSponge should've made more news with the title, while he had the chance ;)
<popey> silly splits
<LibreSponge> The *netsplit of mar'16 . 'Looking back now ...' |  https://goo.gl/R9n10J
<diddledan> the netsplit of mar'16.. sounds like the great storm of 86
<diddledan> or was that the big wind?
<zmoylan-pi> the big wind was when heinz released curry beans in a tin
<diddledan> gmail handles 1.4PB of data per day?!
<diddledan> wow
<foobarry> something something spam
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> I wonder what that is with dedupe
<foobarry> the rest of it is people who think my email address is their's
<foobarry> theirs*
<popey> i get that a lot too
<foobarry> interviews, appliance purchases, $100 vouchers for birthday, naked stuff
<diddledan> naked?!
<foobarry> yeah
<diddledan> why do I not get these emails?
<foobarry> plus selfies with girls in bar
<zmoylan-pi> you really really don't want random nudes from internet
<davmor2> diddledan: spam filters
<foobarry> these aren't spam
<foobarry> they are directed mails from people who missed numbers off the end
<foobarry> foobarry@gmail.com instead of foobarry_345@gmail.com
<diddledan> you should start blackmailing
<foobarry> plus really random bits
<foobarry> i got job interview letters saying turn up at this time,
<foobarry> flight tickets
<foobarry> i sent the $100 vouchers back to the shop
<foobarry> all other stuff i delete now because i gave up trying to be helpful when people argue with you or from noreply anyway
<foobarry> a bit like when the old man calls you 100x on the home phone and you say the first 99 times , obviously someone wrot ethe unmber wrong
<foobarry> 100x you get annoyed or leave the phone off hook
<diplo> foobarry: I have those to my gmail as well, some guy up north is using my email address ( same name ) I get his invoices and everything, I know most of his details now to fake an identity, yet none of the companies I've replied to care :/
<diplo> One came back at me saying "It is you, this is the email YOU gave us!"
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> that's a good argument
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, can you remind me of my credit card number, i've forgotten it...
<diplo> heheh, from the guys emailing techniquies he appeared to me to be of the older variety :)
<LibreSponge> !bug 1547212 How do I call up a bug on here, again ?
<lubotu3> bug 1547212 in RockWork "When watch is disconnected from phone, disable the Developer Tools button in RockWork." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547212
<LibreSponge> Oh ok.
<ali1234> comedy gold http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/559abcac-e76b-445a-a6a0-9c7e52671b02?postId=123985495&initial_page_size=20#comment_123985495
<webpigeon> 77
<diddledan> 42
<webpigeon> dog based keyboard errors
<zmoylan-pi> 99... hmmmm flake
<diddledan> don't you hate that 99s aren't 99p anymore?
<diddledan> I'll have a 99 for 1.69
<zmoylan-pi> i preferred it when they were cheaper than 99p
<foobarry> oh look another DS9 episode about 1 guy who fancies a girl
<diddledan> ?
<foobarry> my missis watches star trek every night and the plot is only ever about 1 ting
<foobarry> angst written by 14yr old geeks
<MartijnVdS> which Star Trek is this?
<MartijnVdS> because I've been re-watching TNG and it's surprisingly good
<mappps> hello
<foobarry> DS9
<foobarry> hello MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> DS9 is soap opera for the first few seasons
<foobarry> DS9 the soap opera
<foobarry> for sure
<foobarry> cringe
<mappps> night manager isnt bad
<foobarry> just iplayering it now
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you mean she's keeping up with the Cardassians then :P
<foobarry> my bro is down the police station, someone nicked his bike. but he has a tracker on it
<foobarry> wonder if that will mean anything to the police
<foobarry> or they will shrug as usual
<mappps> ilayering night manager? e1?
<foobarry> WARNING: You may receive this message if you are using get_iplayer outside the UK
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> ep1 not working
<mappps> hm
<mappps> try via web browser?
<mappps> arent you i the uk?7
<mappps> *in
<foobarry> very much
<foobarry> might youtube-dl it
<mappps> its on yt?
<mappps> ah on bbc official channel?
<mappps> chan4 used to do that then stopped
<foobarry> oh, ep1 not available
<foobarry> 2-5 are
<foobarry> SUCKS
<mappps> lol
<foobarry> cr
<foobarry> y
<mappps> is that bbc official chan or just people ul?
<Welshman> Hi everyone 'in' this XChat-GNOME channel. Also, I do have a Linux Mint question which I have asked in the #linuxmint-help XChat-GNOME channel but on one answered.
<Welshman> So, I will provide background info first.
<diddledan> my spambox has been filled with mostly virus-laden attachment emails of late
<mappps> really? what email you use
<Welshman> Recently I used Windows program Img Burn to create an installation iso but was not successful because of a 'lack' of space on the hard drive.
<diddledan> mappps: gmail for business, using a custom domain
<Welshman> I am now receiving the following message: "There is not enough disk space to save the file. Please free some disk space and try again.".
<Welshman> Also, I have just found that the Drives icon has disappeared from the Menu panel and the Administration/Control Panel.
<mappps> what are you tring to do Welshman
<Welshman> So, my question is: Can the hard disk space be increased using the Terminal? Thanks. :)
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> you can download larger disks using wget I guess?
<diddledan> p.s. I'm trolling
<mappps> hes talking bout terminal but says he wasnt successful to create the installation?
<diddledan> I've had success with using a rolling-pin to flatten a disk and make it cover a larger area, too
<mappps> so es trolling ;/
<mappps> hes
<Welshman> mapps: Thanks for reply. Also, even though I am still a 'newbie' using Linux Mint the Terminal is the only 'thing' that I can think of using to 'fix' the hard drive problem, until I 'fix' other Linux Mint problems! :)
<foobarry> mappps: iplayer official
<foobarry> all except episode1
<foobarry> youtube only has fake links
<Welshman> mapps: So: Any links, suggestions or thoughts?
<foobarry> hate that youtube spam is so prevalent
<mappps> i dont get what youre on about if youre using linux mint what are you on about creating the installation
<diddledan> I remember back in 1997/8 a friend had a really thin Siemens mobile phone and when I first saw it I said something like "omg, it looks like it's been run-over by a rollover" - I guess I'd been playing with DHTML
<mappps> booking time off today
<mappps> 5 days in april:D
<mappps> hopefully go to Budapest..Â£57 return!
<Welshman> mapps: Thanks for your reply. Also, I will explain briefly. Was using the Windows Img Burn to create a Vista installation iso. Even though it was not successful for some reason I am now receiving a "There is not enough disk space to save the file. Please free some disk space and try again." afterwards after 'doing' other things. Also, I have just found that the Drives icon has disappeared from the Menu panel and the Administration/Control Panel
<Welshman> which is useful if 'you' want to increase disk space. That is why I thought of the Terminal and that is why I asked the question about or on the Terminal. So, an answer etc would help me! Thanks. :)
<Welshman> mapps: Installed Img Burn on Linux Mint!
<mappps> im confused, diddledan ? understand?!
<diddledan> no idea
<Welshman> diddledan + mapps: I feel or think that there must be a command that can be used from the Terminal to increase hard disk space! :)
<mappps> on the machine youre on?!
<Welshman> diddledan + mapps: Away from laptop for 30 minutes or more. So, I do look forward to receiving an answer or reply to my question and I would really appreciate it! Back as soon as possible.Thanks. :)
<Welshman> mapps: Yes. Back after 30 minutes or more. :)
<mappps> i think everyons a bit confused Welshman
<davmor2> Welshman: look at disks that is generally the way to deal with disks and partitions. for local and usb drives
<davmor2> mappps, diddledan: ^ I think that is the only advice I can give
<foobarry> new irssi released
<Myrtti> second in a month
<foobarry> realised i am on 0.8.17
<foobarry> it can wait till tuesday.
 * foobarry thinks Myrtti has irssi on highlight
<Myrtti> nope, I just have an inbox zero obsession
<Myrtti> so if an irssi window has activity, I need to read it
<davmor2> Myrtti: hahahaha
<foobarry> yeah i hate that. have to quit channels for that reason
<Myrtti> davmor2: true story, don't mock it
<Myrtti> :-|
<foobarry> sometimes i just alt+num to the channel to make the notifier go away
<davmor2> Myrtti: not mocking I have the same trait for email ofcourse that will all go to pot as I'm on holiday next week :)
<foobarry> read a thread on reddit about hipsters getting excited by oh my zsh
<foobarry> but most of the stuff is possible in bash
<foobarry> it just seems like the atheist vegan shell for arch users
<Myrtti> I've used zsh for years but don't need oh my zsh for that
<Welshman> Hi. Have returned briefly.
<davmor2> byobu and bash are all you need
<Welshman> davmor2: Hi. Also, as I said to mapps: "Also, I have just found that the Drives icon has disappeared from the Menu panel and the Administration/Control Panel.". So, I cannot "look at disks" at the present time! Thinking I might have to re-install Linux Mint!! :)
<davmor2> Welshman: disks is an app
<diddledan> ..lication
<davmor2> diddledan: :P
<Welshman> davmor2: But, I feel or think that there must be a command that can be used from the Terminal to increase hard disk space! :)
<diddledan> wget http://theentireinternet/
<diddledan> rm -rf / <-- don't!
<diddledan> it'll achieve your stated goal of increasing hard disk space at the cost of destroying your OS
<Welshman> davmor2: If 'disks' is an app then how or where do I download to install?
<davmor2> Welshman: parted/fdisk/gfdisk the list goes on the easiest way though it with a nice gui that way you don't kill your system
<davmor2> Welshman: it should be on you system already is at least on ubuntu and fedora and most of their derivatives
<Welshman> davmor2: As I have already stated to you and mapps: "I have just found that the Drives icon has disappeared from the Menu panel and the Administration/Control Panel."!
<davmor2> Welshman: click on the menu thing in mint in the search box what happens if you type in disks
<Welshman> davmor2: The 'Drives' icon has returned - typed 'Disks' in the search box on the Menu panel. So, now the next question is: How do I use the 'Disks' option to increase the hard disk space? :)
<davmor2> Welshman: look it up on a youtube video it will make it easier than trying to explain in text
<davmor2> Welshman: some thing like Useing Gnome Disks to increase a partition
<davmor2> -e
<Welshman> davmor2: Fair enough and thank you. But, another question: Is there a step by step instruction online about increasing a hard disk space through 'Disks'? Also, I do have another separate question. Thanks. :)
<Welshman> davmor2
<Welshman> davmor2: Hi + sorry to disturb you. Did or have you received my posted message sent to you? Thanks. :)
<davmor2> Welshman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_jNL0mmaLQ
<davmor2> turns out gparted is easier
<Welshman> davmor2: Does that vid provide step by step instructions? Would have preferred a text step by step instructions with screen shots! :)
<Welshman> *link for
<davmor2> Welshman: yes and in mint too
<Welshman> davmor2: Thanks. Also, Do have one more question
<Welshman> arghh!
<diddledan> ooh, point break
 * diddledan watches
<davmor2> Welshman: yes
<Welshman> davmor2: Thanks. Also, do have one more question to ask you that is not related (USB flash/pen/stick drive). But, away from laptop for several minutes before I ask it! Thanks. :)
<Welshman> davmor2
<Welshman> davmor2: Hi. Have returned.
<Welshman> davmor2: Also, have another question to ask you that is not related to my previous 1! My question is: Is there a program available for Linux Mint or Windows (XP and 10) that can be used to completely wipe a 8GB USB flash/pen/stick drive?
<Welshman> davmor2: Reason why I ask is because recently I noticed the properties of a 8GB USB flash/pen/stick drive that I am using displayed 40.8MB filled space.
<Welshman> davmor2: I want to use the whole of the USB flash/pen/stick drive because I have a Vista folder to transfer over to another computer to create an installation iso.
<Welshman> davmor2: So, that is why I have asked the question. Thanks in advance if anyone answer or replies with a suggestion or link. :)
<davmor2> that might be drive information partition table information etc etc
<Welshman> davmor2: Thanks for reply. Also, I do remember 'coming across' or 'finding' a program for Windows a couple of years ago (cannot remember if it was free) that did completely wipe an USB flash/pen/stick drive. But cannot remember the name of the Windows program and it would be useful if I could use a similar 1 in Linux Mint! So: Link and suggestion, please? :)
<Welshman> *for
<davmor2> gparted or disks for disks you select the drive and then click on the menu and select format disk just make sure it is the right one.
<Welshman> davmor2: Yes, okay. But does format really completely wipe an USB flash/pen/stick drive or is a partition created/left on the USB? :)
<davmor2> Welshman: I've no idea what you are on about now,  It is a format tool it formats it, you can do it quick in or slow quick wipes the partition slow fills it with zeros
<davmor2> anyway I'm off on holiday now night all see you in a weeks time or so
<Welshman> davmor2_HOLS: Thanks. I am also leaving this channel or room. So, I hope you have a nice time and have fun on your holidays. I bid you a goodnight (it's 11.05pm here!), good morning, good afternoon and good evening! All the best for 2016! :)
<diddledan> point break has got to the obligatory sexytime
<diddledan> well that was quick
<daftykins> tsk tsk
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-25
<bittin> i ended up on the new FreeBSD Foundation website: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/what-we-do/grants/ o:
<daftykins> bittin: why are you cross posting that?
<daftykins> it's not really welcome behaviour.
<m0nkey_> heh
<m0nkey_> you're going to hate me
<m0nkey_> i like freebsd
<daftykins> i just saw it in another channel, normally it's trolls that attack the same set of channels at once
<ali1234> daftykins: why are trolls posting a boring website? was it defaced earlier or something?
<LibreSponge> Morning all https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/25566396561/in/photostream/
<LibreSponge> Happy Good Friday :) https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays
<knightwise> morning
<LibreSponge> knightwise: Hey About being Scarey yesterday :) ....
<LibreSponge> knightwise: My name isn't Wayne's (World) !
<knightwise> :)
<LibreSponge> Take a chill pill .. http://www.u2.com/media/player/112/5
<LibreSponge> :)
<LibreSponge> "1% of the world is enough to change the world" https://twitter.com/buzzgen/status/703281477568450560
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Grr .. need to figure out to sync a folder from my raspberry pi across to my other machines
<knightwise> dropbox doesnt seem to want to coÃ¶perate
<zmoylan-pi> rasp pi doesn't do dropbox properly, does it?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: no :(
<knightwise> I was thinking of installing podget on the rasp and then syncing over the downloaded files to my different machines
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: ownCloud, sugarsync...rsync madness?
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now someone would have made a rasp pi client...
<knightwise> plain Rsync might do the trick
<TwistedLucidity> As long as it's one-way; probably easiest
<knightwise> ok , so i'm running nautilus and  mount a folder on my pi over ssh
<knightwise> it turns up on the nautilus app .. but how do i access this folder from the command line ?
<knightwise> its not mounted in /media/
<zmoylan-pi> does nautilus not show a url indicating it's mount?
<penguin42> oh it's probably fuse mounted somewhere; or possibly entirely userspace with nothing through the kernel
<knightwise> gotit !
<knightwise> i can just rightclick the folder and choose 'open in terminal'
<zmoylan-pi> and if you use pwd what does it say?
<knightwise> run/user .. etc etc
<knightwise> cant copy paste it , opened it up in a vm , sorry
<penguin42> is it something like /home/knightwise/.gnome/magicgump/stuff/mount ?
<knightwise> nope
<knightwise> it also has the sftp link in there and stuff.
<knightwise> ok ,
<lopta> Do Dell in the UK sell laptops with Ubuntu on them?
<zmoylan-pi> yes, you just have to find them
<lopta> I'm in the U.S. and noticed today that they're prominent on the Dell Website here.
<lopta> Looks as though they have four models, mostly high-end.
<lopta> Sorry, five models.
<knightwise> lopta: i have dell xps13 , bought it in Belgium.
<lopta> I thought that was nice, anyway.
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, better than where they used to hide them. I think they might still be treated like a leper in the UK though. Dunno. I treat Dell like a leper!
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: you mean you take them into your home and care for their affliction like the charitable person you are?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: or do you mean you stick your middle finger up at them and pretend they don't exist?
<diddledan> someone's honking
<diddledan> lord, were you there, were you there.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I meant in the sense of "I avoid them"
<TwistedLucidity> Which I believe is the typical meaning when "such-and-such is treated like a leper"
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe I'm wrong
<diddledan> yeah, most people hide lepers away but the kind care for them :-p
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they print ascii character 7 every few seconds i don't mind them...
 * diddledan wanders-off to find an ascii card
<diddledan> chart*
<diddledan> aha, bell
<m0nkey_> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bruce+Wayne's+Residence/@42.7623411,-83.283347,17.75z/data=!4m6!1m3!3m2!1s0x0:0x621ac62e50ef15c!2sBruce+Wayne's+Residence!3m1!1s0x0:0x621ac62e50ef15c
<knightwise> ha !
<knightwise> Setup podget on my Raspberry pi to download my daily dose of podcasts.
<knightwise> That way i can stream them off there from anywhere I want :)
<mappps> new crminal minds series isnt horrible
<mappps> beyond borders
<daftykins> time for an outdoor hobby mappps ;)
<daftykins> speaking of - had the maiden voyage of my clients' DJI drone today
<zmoylan-pi> it sank?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e96k9fjnojg9opu/VID_20160325_152814.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> nope!
<mappps> i try paddle and im hopeless daftykins
<mappps> ;[
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> like a canoe or kayak?
<knightwise> ha
<knightwise> serversalive is a great app on the ipad
<knightwise> ssh into pi, run irssi from there
<daftykins> so it's just an SSH client?
<knightwise> my pi ?
<knightwise> does podcasts, rss feed etcetc
<knightwise> podcatcher
<zmoylan-pi> it's your sidekick, your igor...
<knightwise> indeed
<daftykins> no the serversalive app
<daftykins> on android i use JuiceSSH
<knightwise> always funny to see the cheapest computer in the house gets the most action
<knightwise> serversalive is a general ssh client
<daftykins> just shows you're doing the wrong things with the rest! ;)
<knightwise> depends
<zmoylan-pi> you can leave the pi on 24x7 and not worry about leccy bill or it over heating
<knightwise> i just love using command line apps because they are pretty distraction free
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: indeed
<knightwise> its been up for almost 90days now
<penguin42> doesn't worry about his low power x86 either, it's still more than a Pi, but at about 25w it's still only a few pence a day
<zmoylan-pi> mine averages 6 months between various reboots
<penguin42> and that's not a really low power build
<knightwise> also have a reddit client , word prosessor , rss reader, youtube downloader ...
<zmoylan-pi> mine runs on a phone charger :-)
<knightwise> so does mine
<knightwise> gotta go . tme for netflix and chill
<zmoylan-pi> newsbeuter for rss, irssi for irc, tmux to run both on screen at same time.  ttytter for twitter i use sometimes...
<daftykins> i'm typing to you now from an SSH session into a VM running irssi, it's not on a Pi though ;)
<daftykins> CLI is indeed ace
<mappps> daftykins,  noo paddle tennis
<mappps> played in spain and south america and in gib
<daftykins> is that the same as table tennis?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-26
<mappps> hi;D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mappps> morn
<knightwise> Gah ! ffS
<knightwise> stupid locale settings in ubuntu
<MartijnV1S> ?
<knightwise> just getting some stupid pything errors about "locale not supported"
<MartijnV1S> what *is* your locale?
<knightwise> it was working before I rebooted but I think its borked again.
<MartijnV1S> did you use dpkg-reconfigure locales to generate it?
<knightwise> yeah ,tried that
<knightwise> according to ubuntu its de_be
<MartijnV1S> de_BE I'd guess
<knightwise> cant i hardcode it to US US or whatever ?
<MartijnV1S> check /etc/default/locale
<MartijnV1S> well you could, but you have to make sure you don't break stuff like date and number formatting
<knightwise> hmm , no such file ?
<MartijnVdS> I'm on Debian, maybe Ubuntu does it differently
<MartijnVdS> Can you put the output of "locale" somewhere?
<knightwise> probably
<knightwise> I can do locale-a
<MartijnVdS> just "locale" is enough. Though "locale -a" would be good too
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/Kfs4viB4
<MartijnVdS> yeah dpkg-reconfigure locales
<MartijnVdS> then add and add some Belgian ones ;)
<MartijnVdS> also ".utf8" looks weird, I'm used to it being .UTF-8 -- are you on a mac?
<MartijnVdS> oh no wait. utf8 is the new thing apparently
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: there's a gui tool to change locale stuff in Ubuntu too -- it installs language packs as needed, but also sets (system or user) language settings
<knightwise> locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
<knightwise> gonna try to log into the gui in a minute
<MartijnVdS> I don't know how up to date this is, but: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Locale
<knightwise> gonna take a peek this afternoon :)
<knightwise>  right now its walkies-da-doggies time :)
<LibreSponge> Mooin Moin. G'Morning.
<mallard> Does Ubuntu change hard drive settings? On other distros my computer was quite quiet, but now it sounds like a motorbike.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Afternoon
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnnns at DJones
 * DJones yawns back
<LibreSponge> I wore my Ubuntu hat to U3Age racketball this morning. Not one person asked me about it ;-(
<popey> Can't imagine why anyone would.
<DJones> can somebody do me a favor and ping or hilight me so i can test irssinotifier
 * brobostigon highlights DJones 
<popey> DJones: no
<DJones>  cheers, first didn't work, but changed settings, 2nd did
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-27
<mapito> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> hmm sudden hail storm
<zmoylan-pi> had that yesterday...
<DJones> just had one flash of lightening
<awilkins> putronic retailer does Vive demos now]
<LibreSponge> Does this Link work for anyone (?) :
<LibreSponge> https://insights.ubuntu.com/phone-and-tablet/
<LibreSponge> works fine on OMGUbuntu: https://redd.it/4c5gkj
<popey> looks like a datacentre outage
<LibreSponge> popey, Aren't you glad I'm here, listening, then.
<penguin42> a datacentre outage on a bankholiday weekend?
<popey> well, company irc is dead too
<popey> so yeah, more than one thing out
<popey> canonical.com too
<LibreSponge>  '#ubuntu-community is quiet about this. Be nice to let the crowd-know gradually.
<popey> it's being worked on
<popey> the /topic #canonical-sysadmin has been updated
<popey> which is where we usually report these things
<LibreSponge> I just hope there is little failure-to-communicate to the community, wud be my point. gradually -speaking that is.
<LibreSponge> I shall do a report-for-you.
<LibreSponge> popey, It's on-going but getting there. |  https://archive.org/details/UbuntuOuttage27thMarch2016
<LibreSponge> popey, It's back Up now .. before I finished :-) http://insights.ubuntu.com/phone-and-tablet/
<popey> indeed, just reported in #canonical-sysadmin
<popey> 17:06 <@elmo> popey (and others): things should now be resolved
<penguin42> removed bunnies from ac ducting....
<LibreSponge> popey, they should use this as a test-case to see how the How-to-tweet-about-it on Monday/Tuesday.
<popey> I'm not convinced it needed it. A 1 hour outage.
<LibreSponge> popey, I shall hush-up about any problems at Ubuntu.com in future, then.
<popey> thats extreme
<popey> You know, it's possible to have a conversation without going off the deep end
<LibreSponge> I'm not extreme - it just raining here - and i had nothing to-do 's-all.
<popey> right, but just because I said I didn't think it was needed didn't need a knee-jerk flounce
<LibreSponge> sorry, I'm just flumixed that I got no choco-lite today :)
<LibreSponge> A_lot of 12.04.4 distros' are being released at the moment. https://redd.it/4c5esb
<popey> 12.04? Really?
<popey> surprising
<LibreSponge> sorry 14.04.4 my mistake.
<knightwise> gonna test out the beta next week on my VM
<knightwise> love the fact that you can now place the launcher at the bottom
<knightwise> little things make me happy :) easily amused
<popey> heh
<DJones> evening all
<popey> o/
<DJones> yay, just realised that Swype on android does have a tab key on the default keyboard
<DJones> makes irc over irssi connectbit
<DJones> connectbot much easier
<penguin42> ctrl-i works generally I think for that
<penguin42> although that is 3 taps
<DJones> Right, I'll stick with the tab key
<penguin42> nod
<DJones> now to find something worth watching on tv
<zmoylan-pi> so you're not going to type in brobostigon properly... shame... :-)
<popey> Antiques roadshow in a bit!
<DJones> popey: can't stand that
 * penguin42 likes it except when they do the specials
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: or snojkan-pie
<zmoylan-pi> it's nice when some one discovers that some old tat they had at home for yonks turns out to be worth a fortune
<popey> I quite like it. Nice easy watching Sunday telly :)
<Myrtti> DJones: did you know how to get to that tab the easiest?
<penguin42> good to fall asleep in front of
<Myrtti> Swipe from swype to the ?123 key
<DJones> Myrtti: last time i used it, it didn't have it, don't know if it's because of a new install on a new tablet that's changed the layout
<Myrtti> that sounds weird
<DJones> now there is a tab key above the shift key
<popey> ooooh
<popey> they just said AR has "the highest valuation in 20 years"
<penguin42> AR?
<popey> If that won't get you watching, i don't know what will!
<popey> Antiques Roadshow
<penguin42> oh AR
<DJones> popey: at my age i don't need reminding of antiques
<zmoylan-pi> i've got calluses that are worth a quote at this point... :-)
<DJones> heh
<DJones> Myrtti: i didn't know about that shortcut, probably won't remember it for the future anyway
<Myrtti> of course I use that and the language swap all the time
<DJones> very rarely use this on my tablet, but tablet is easier than a laptop while sitting in a hospital bed
<penguin42> popey: It's cheating doing a 'highest valuation' thing on something like that
 * m0nkey_ has finally put the summer wheels on the car
<m0nkey_> I no longer accept this wintery weather.
 * zmoylan-pi stepped out for a nice walk to the shops to be blasted by winter weather, rain, hail, wind and freezing temps today... of course it was sunny when i left and again by the time i got back...
<penguin42> yeh got 5mins of hail storm sometime earlier
<m0nkey_> 11C outside today
<m0nkey_> After months of below zero, yes.. I'm wearing shorts
<popey> penguin42: i agree!
<penguin42> Friday was better here; chance to try the new Gelato shop that opened (bravely) a month ago
<zmoylan-pi> queues outside local icecream shop earlier in the week. wearing heavy coats but waiting for ice cream... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/713659982806446081/photo/1
<Azelphur> Well, I just managed to get the best domain name ever, I am now the proud owner of a single character domain, http://Ç£.cc
 * m0nkey_ pokes your owncloud
 * Azelphur pokes m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<m0nkey_> http://xn--fka.cc/
<m0nkey_> thats what chrome tells me
<Azelphur> indeed, Chrome seems to unicode it - firefox displays it
<m0nkey_> now confuse people by giving them your email address as Azelphur@Ç£.cc :)
<Azelphur> haha
<m0nkey_> They'll be, where the heck is the Ç£ key?
<penguin42> hmm I can get Ã¦ easily but the line hmm
<zmoylan-pi> except for emacs users... those buggers have every key a vulcan keypress away...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-20
<ali1234> hmm kdenlive is trash :(
<ali1234> deletes clips, randomly moves them around on the timeline, preview window is just black 50% of the time
<ali1234> next...
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if there are mobile apps that would do the video editing... a lot of video is shot on those platforms...
<ali1234> youtube has a vdei editor now
<ali1234> i mean, a video editor
<ali1234> its actually pretty good if you have fast internet
<ali1234> i mean, it works
<zmoylan-pi> i often find it quicker to edit photos cropping, rotating on phones up to and including my ancientest nokia from 2009
<ali1234> pitivi was doing so well... then it froze
<ali1234> it autosaved the project
<ali1234> unfortunately it crashes as soon as i try to load the autosave
<ali1234> next...
<ali1234> openshot crashed while holding a pointer lock. i had to switch to a console and kill it
<ali1234> neeeeeeeext...
<ali1234> hmm... i've figured out a workflow
<ali1234> make one edit, save, quit openshot, restart openshot, open recent project, make one edit...
<zmoylan-pi> and sing 99 million green bottles... :-/
<ali1234> finally... now lets see if it renders
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy World Storytelling Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> well.... let me tell you about how happy i was when i won the lottery over the weekend... 3 scratch cards \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2DS6o64vKA
<JamesTait> davmor2, nostalgia overload with that video.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<diddledan> 20 Mar 17 2:35 PM - Shipment picked up - WUHAN,CHINA, PEOPLES REPUBLIC
<diddledan> I wonder how many thaibrides I'm gonna receive?
<diplo> 1million offers!
<diddledan> where should I file a bug about the ubuntu-phone mailing list mangling causing @yahoo.com mails to the list being spammed?
<diddledan> specifically several from Marcin Xc <gtriderxc@yahoo.com> have been going into my spambox because of yahoo's dkim signature being incorrect when it hits my gmail account after going through the mailing list
<diddledan> the yahoo configuration prohibits the mangling of the subject field which is where I believe the signature is becoming corrupted because the ML rewrites the subject to include [Ubuntu-phone]
<diddledan> here's a nice log for ya:  https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/49c72bs7/
<diddledan> oh, I'm wrong, it's actually the dmarc that's failing
<diddledan> looks like it's a known problem from several years ago: http://onlinegroups.net/blog/2014/04/10/yahoo-dmarc-better-mailing-list-manager/
<diddledan> nice! https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/843834690104639489
<diddledan> hooray for inclusivity
<popey> wow, that's amazing
<MooDoo> afternoon all :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you owld slacker 'ow am ya
<popey> pip pip
<davmor2> Tally-ho
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad crackin ! :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: R bostin'
<diddledan> what'cha boss:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ncP6HThv/Picture%201.jpg
<diddledan> that's in reference to popey's pip pip :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: nice
<m0nkey_> diddledan: who da boss?
 * diddledan shrugs
<davmor2> m0nkey_: well obviously not the guy will the bowler it would be the guy with the flat cap and sports car
<lopta> How would a person choose between lxde and Xfce?
<zmoylan-pi> you install both onto 2 laptops and then have them fight in a ring for dominance... :-P
 * lopta grins
<zmoylan-pi> look at the feature list and see which is more fitting with your requirements?
<lopta> Hmm... ok
<zmoylan-pi> does one require more ram than the other... might be a deal breaker for low end systems
<zmoylan-pi> find a comparison review of both. https://wiki.lxde.org/en/Comparison_between_LXDE_and_Xfce mind that is a lxde site
<lopta> Thanks
<lopta> Today (just now) I learned that LXQt was a thing.
<zmoylan-pi> it's linux, why have one window manager when you can have 250? see text editors... :-P
 * lopta grins
<lopta> zmoylan-pi: I don't want to have to support 250. ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> that's ok, since we started this conversation 2 more will have been added...
 * lopta flinches
<brobostigon> simpler might be, install lxde and xfce, and make a minor adjustment after exec in .xinitrc. :)
<zmoylan-pi> ultimately as brobostigon says only you can decide which is best for you
<brobostigon> and restart xorg.
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon uses i3wm.
<zmoylan-pi> that's the tiling manager, isn't it?
<brobostigon> yes.
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to give that a look see
<brobostigon> awesome is also good,
<brobostigon> but i find i3 better.
<lopta> I use Blackbox but I can't put that in front of normal people.
<brobostigon> well, my fiance uses my laptop, but i have windowmaker setup for her instead of i3.
<zmoylan-pi> when i first played with linux it was all kde or gnome
<brobostigon> similerly, in the late 90's as well.
<zmoylan-pi> red hat 5.2
<brobostigon> even if BeOS was my first love, :)
<zmoylan-pi> i always wanted to try next but they were very not cheap
<brobostigon> i agree, and then the got swallowed up by apple.
<zmoylan-pi> i did have some fun with os/2 but i knew the jig was up when ibm started calling me for support
<brobostigon> cool :),  no no, :(
<lopta> CP/M-80 ftw ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> oh we had those too.  compucorp cpm computers with the motherboards partially made of gold iirc
<zmoylan-pi> still in use into the 90s in a few places
<zmoylan-pi> i think a few were recycled into tanks :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ...or nokias...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-21
<m0nkey_> Anyone tinkered with LXC?
<m0nkey_> I want to limit the amount of swap space a container can use
<m0nkey_> I got it limiting the RAM
<m0nkey_> nvm, figured it out. it was a kernel boot parameter
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SuperMatt> morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> SuperMatt, morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey brobostigon how's life?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, hi purple blob :d
<brobostigon> davmor2: good really, and you?
<brobostigon> SebthreeBQM10HD: hi yellow blob.
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: how do
<davmor2> brobostigon: good thanks
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, hi pink thing :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hows ubuntu touch anything interesting going on? nope?
<davmor2> if by touch you mean personal then there are lots of important things happening moving over to snap and over coming confinement issues there, getting desktop ready and lots of other stuff
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, yeah ok snaps, but what else? unity etc?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> touch is stand still whilst waiting
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: no that is it, it is getting desktop parity and snapified
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, desktop parity what does that really mean ?
 * TwistedLucidity misread davmor2's comment as "personal touching" and thought he was in the wrong channel for a moment....
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, just the d esktop and mobile being more in sync same thing ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Single Parents' Day! ð
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: it means than in order for unity8 to replace unity7 it needs to be on par with unity7 which it currently isn't
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, ah yeah you mean support most of the smae features etc, yeah yeah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, so unity 8 preview in 11.04 what's that like?  the desktop 16.10 didn't have much by default
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean by default
<SebthreeBQM10HD> whats the 11.04 one like ?
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: well 11.04 is quite old and never likely to get unity8, 17.04 however is much better than previous releases but still not quite there yet
<davmor2> but should be in much better shape :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, oh I put 11.04 by mistake, yes I meant 17.04
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you man?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Good ta, you?
<MooDoo> yeah good thanks mate
<popey> morning slackers
<MooDoo> morning popey
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Promoting another distro? SPLITTER!
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: no popey is right, I'm not doing any work ;)
<popey> promoting another web based chat client :)
<davmor2> popey: no you'd of gone with rocket.chat if you were doing that
<davmor2> Morning popey 'ow am ya?
<popey> i never use rocketchat
<popey> people I talk to are all on slack
<davmor2> popey: shame on you especially with snapcraft being so active on rocket.ubuntu.com
<popey> don't blame me, it's the people I talk to
<popey> they chose it, not me
<TwistedLucidity> Could be worse, you could be using "Skype for Business"
 * TwistedLucidity starts to sob
<zmoylan-pi> there does seem to be a bit of a drive on for a dumber worse way to do irc now
<Laney> can haz android nougat
<TwistedLucidity> IRC doesn't intergrate with Outlook Calendar. Doesn't do video conferences. Is therefore clearly unsuable.
<m0nkey_> I feel your pain. Skype for Business is terrible.
<directhex> so
<directhex> as a microsoft employee
<directhex> i want to apologise for s4b
<directhex> which is a dumpster fire
<directhex> okay, not really, for many people. but it's not something i enjoy using.
<davmor2> directhex: hahahaha
<m0nkey_> directhex: Since you claim to work for MS, can you please ask the guys in charge to allow us to choose if and when we get updates in 10? :)
<zmoylan-pi> don't you just change the network connection to metered to stop 90% of the updates?
<daftykins> you can already control that if you can learn to drive an OS
<zmoylan-pi> or has that already changed?
<directhex> not my department
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yep that's changing in the build coming in April :D
<daftykins> apparently it will now suck down 'critical' updates regardless of metered status...
<zmoylan-pi> and that's why i use linux... learn the commands once in the 70s for unix and stick with them... :-P
<daftykins> think you're wrong there, they're constantly changing and the inconsistency is what makes Linux a bit of a joke
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi: I'd be using Ubuntu full time today, if there was full support for SteamVR.
<zmoylan-pi> hands out the obsolete java manuals for rampaging mob to chuck at daftykins :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> and no one is throw one at daftykins until i blow this whistle even and i want to make it absolutely clear, even if daftykins says microsoft
<directhex> yes! hurl projectiles at the microsoft fan!
<daftykins> i'm no MS fan, just unlike most folks in here i see the bs from all the OSs
 * zmoylan-pi listens to the thundering of manuals bouncing off directhex....
<zmoylan-pi> stop it stop it stop it
<daftykins> and am honest about it :)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: did you run the targeting systems from your Pi again!?
<zmoylan-pi> no, it's busy calcualting pi... #irony
<zmoylan-pi> it's pi all the way down...
<m0nkey_> I'll write my own OS, with Blackjack and Hookers!
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> Eh, forget the whole thing.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm very curious to see what swatch do for an os
<daftykins> are they aiming to make some of these silly smart watches?
<zmoylan-pi> either completely terrible or fantastically swiss...
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<daftykins> blech :P
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/kDzR9nBTpTz
<zmoylan-pi> they've faced disaster before when the digital watch came around and reinvented themselves very well
<daftykins> cor i'm not sure i can cope with the potential distance from my house to these apartments whilst i'm moved out for the insurance work...
<daftykins> 118 foot climb on the bike perhaps :>
<zmoylan-pi> tis the 21st century... get a hover board... :-P
<daftykins> i could but it'd burn the whole island down
<daftykins> plus just think what it would do to my street cred!
<zmoylan-pi> would keep you warm till spring kicks in...
<daftykins> the sun appears to be out and beaming here on the rock today!
<zmoylan-pi> was like that here yesterday too... we still had a weather warning for snow and cold...
<daftykins> hrmm on checking the forecast it's barely nudging into 2 digits temp wise
<zmoylan-pi> 3c outside allegedly... https://isitraining.in/dublin
<zmoylan-pi> feels warmer...
<lopta> Oooh, I wonder whether they have a page for Ystrad Mynach
<zmoylan-pi> https://isitraining.in/Ystrad
<lopta> It gets FlatHolm wrong, puts me in the Aland Islands.
<lopta> That's a neat idea though.
<zmoylan-pi> that and a page for nearest bus stops on a nice screen on a wall constantly updating would be handy as you leave the house
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> but obviously converted to green text scrolling on black background because you have standards... :-P
<lopta> Nice. http://isitraining.in/Skuvoy
<zmoylan-pi> i always keep an eye on... https://isitraining.in/oymyakon
<lopta> -27C is a bit nippy.
<zmoylan-pi> that means spring has arrived... it gets much much colder than that in winter
 * lopta makes a note never to move there.
<zmoylan-pi> great place for a server farm...
<zmoylan-pi> or bitcoin mining
<zmoylan-pi> but when summer arrives it will be hotter than dublin...
<foobarry> if i have french doors that lock in the middle, are they central rail key operated lock or door with multi-point locking e.g. UPVC door
<foobarry> i mean they are the latter, but don't know if they are also the former
<daftykins> what's the context of that query? you kinda dropped us in it...
<m0nkey_> Yeah, that's not a Linuxy question.
<foobarry> getting house insurance
<m0nkey_> :)
<foobarry> i think its not a central rail lock
<foobarry> that sounds like sliding patio doors
<foobarry> burglars just smashed the glass in the patio doors the other day in the beieghbours house :|
<foobarry> one way to do it i guess
<daftykins> oof
<foobarry> just nicked passports and money
<foobarry> and jewellery
<foobarry> wow, new price Â£102
<foobarry> pretty good
<foobarry> barclays want 279
<daftykins> that's your full home insurance? D:
<foobarry> buildings and contents
<daftykins> mines about Â£400
<foobarry> yeah, wonder whats happened
<foobarry> mine used to be Â£400
<foobarry> i think i misunderstood definition of mortice lock once and i got penalised with a high figure
<foobarry> because i said i didn't have one. but they are chubb locks
<foobarry> Home Emergency Cover
<foobarry> Add annually Â£57.20 / monthly (12 x Â£4.77 excluding interest)
<foobarry> Cover for emergencies such as a central heating breakdown or a broken front-door lock.
<foobarry> sounds a lot of money
<davmor2> foobarry: look up the cost of a boiler and figure out how long you would have to pay that before it totalled the cost of the boiler and then figure out if it is worth it :)
<foobarry> i don't think it covers boiler maintenance
<foobarry> would have to read small print
<davmor2> foobarry: no but it covers breakdown if the boiler needs replacing it should cover that
<foobarry> and the consequence of making a claim...
<daftykins> maintenance != emergency callouts
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're on super top tier maintenance plan... ker-ching
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> 21 Mar 17 9:15 PM - Clearance processing complete - HONG KONG,HONG KONG
<diddledan> it's gonna go on a boat next, maybe plane
<daftykins> then to the centre of the earth!
<diddledan> :-o
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't china now have a train that goes all the way to uk?
<daftykins> surely that's not your NICs from New Jersey? :>
<diddledan> no, I'm not getting updates for the nics
<diddledan> this is the transceivers
<daftykins> ah
 * diddledan makes a point of mentioning that he spelt that correctly this time :-p
<daftykins> i noticed!
<zmoylan-pi> who are you and what did you do with the real diddledan?! :-)
<diddledan> aha, my network cards: Tuesday, 21. Mar. 2017 1:49 AM	Erlanger , Kentucky	Customs Documentation and Labeling
<diddledan> so far they've gone New Jersey -> Ohio -> Kentucky
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't the nsa have a place in new jersey... :-P
<daftykins> diddledan: what're all the toys of benefit for then, sounds like the beginnings of a DIY vmware lab setup or some such?
<daftykins> you starting hosting from home? :D
<diddledan> yup, vmware
<gregoryfenton> Hi there. I have a Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS dedicated server with OVH that allows multiple IP addresses, each with an associated MAC address. I can't find the correct mantra to get more than one IP address at a time working - as soon as I activate one the others stop being accessible from the outside world.
<daftykins> talk to OVH - it may be specific to their setup
<daftykins> standard rules do not apply when it's a hosting setup, given it's in their domain
<daftykins> the other way to look at it is that folks in here are not getting paid to assist, whilst your provider is :)
<gregoryfenton> The problem isn't OVH, it's me figuring out what I need to put in /etc/network/interfaces to allow multiple mac addresses
<daftykins> right, and you pay them for a service
<daftykins> so call up / raise a ticket / something :)
<diplo> http://help.ovh.co.uk/ConfigureAdditionlIP
<lopta> hello pavlushka
<pavlushka> Hello lopta
<pavlushka> lopta: how can I help you , Sir?
<daftykins> i think it was just the greeting
<lopta> pavlushka: I don't know. Are you any good at car repairs? ;-)
<pavlushka> daftykins: ok, then :)
<pavlushka> lopta: I can watch repairing attentively for sure, will that help?
 * lopta grins
<diddledan> transceivers: 21 Mar 17 4:10 PM - Customs status updated - LONDON-HEATHROW,UNITED KINGDOM
<daftykins> ooh
<diddledan> nics are in the air: Tuesday, 21. Mar. 2017 4:04 PM	Erlanger , Kentucky	Shipped from the Global Shipping Center to International Destination
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/843789570084917249
<diddledan> ^ brexit gets underway
 * zmoylan-pi starts the number crunching to build a potato cannon that can send emergency potatos to britain post brexit...
<diddledan> omg, I forgot that Ireland will be unable to sell us their spuds!
<diddledan> or at the very least the prices will go up
<zmoylan-pi> the spudinator 3000 will sort that...
<diddledan> we'll have to pay import duty
<zmoylan-pi> ship homing pigeons to uk, release pigeon with valuables and lat long attached... wait...
<diddledan> how accurate is it? I mean can we use it to quietly assassinate people like Nigel Farage?
<zmoylan-pi> well like the v2 it probably can just about hit a city... unless we grow mutant perfectly oval spuds with fins for stablising spin...
<zmoylan-pi> or we can cheat and just grow the spuds in molds like the square watermelons they have in japan...
<diddledan> or the bonsaikittens?
<diddledan> do not google that. it's bad.
<BassSultan> test
<BassSultan> hi :)
<diddledan> fail
<BassSultan> oh ok, then i better go and reinstall :S
<BassSultan> thx
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: bonsai kittens were cool, back in the old days
<MartijnVdS> so many outraged people
<MartijnVdS> (so many people pointed at the FAQ)
<diddledan> "Enterprise companies must deliver exceptional experiences at scale or risk losing customers to competitors" <-- when does a business become an enterprise business?
<diddledan> e.g. what constitutes "enterprise" vs every other company?
<zmoylan-pi> they run them for their personal starships... :-P
<diddledan> what is the defining characteristic of an enterprise?
<diddledan> how do I know, e.g., if I'm talking to an enterprise or a boring run-of-the-mill business?
<zmoylan-pi> they'll be wearing a better suit that you are :-)
<MartijnVdS> I propose a rule: if you want to call your software "Enterprise", it should be useful on the starship
 * zmoylan-pi writes software to make monitors explode... :-P
<Azelphur> well, things are working well, trying to expand my raid array, added the new drive and ran grow, mdstat says speed=0K/sec and it'll finish in 175 billion minutes.
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> 175 billion minutes. that's one or two years
<Azelphur> for bonus points, I googled for a solution and found http://serverfault.com/questions/833557/software-raid5-reshape-at-0k-sec-after-attempting-to-grow
<Azelphur> ran that, machine instantly crashed.
<diddledan> 332,952 years
<zmoylan-pi> make sure your head floating in a jar quiet life of dignity connects to usb port as a keyboard :-P
<zmoylan-pi> though by then ps/2 ports will have taken over again...
<diddledan> Azelphur: is the raid array still intact after the crash?
<Azelphur> diddledan: I dunno, I have been leaving the machine and seeing if it comes back
<Azelphur> I don't think it's gonna, probably need to hard shutdown :(
<Azelphur> nothing on the display output, not responding to ping, nor ssh.
<diddledan> press the capslock key and wait to see if the light illuminates
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-22
<diddledan> damn. internet just blipped
 * zmoylan-pi had to poke my pi with a stick...
<diddledan> looks like it wasn't just me - look at the blip on the left of the graph: https://control.aa.net.uk/blip.cgi/
<diddledan> that's a 24hour recycling chart
<diddledan> so it goes off the end on the right and back onto the left
<diddledan> (I think)
<diddledan> either that or it grows leftward with old stuff falling off the right
<zmoylan-pi> i should really splash out on a 2nd pi for a hot backup... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> pifail
<diddledan> (over)
<zmoylan-pi> pi one is down, repeat pi one is down, activate pi two!! ::lights flicker and dim for a few seconds:: :-P
<diddledan> *kccchhht* roger mmmfmmfffllmm houstan]
<diddledan> why are space radios so terrible?!
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DjsmkD1fw
<zmoylan-pi> because they're in a near perfect faraday cage... :-)
<diddledan> ali1234: lol
<diddledan> tony did it!
<knightWin> good morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightWin> hey brobostigon
<knightWin> been a while
<brobostigon> hi knightWin
<brobostigon> yes.
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightWin> hey davmor2
<knightWin> brobostigon: had a pretty busy couple of months,
<knightWin> its a little better now
<knightWin> even aired a new podcast today
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> knightWin: are you on windows, or just a winner today?
<knightwise> hmm..
<knightwise> not very stable, this "bash on windows"
<zmoylan-pi> well if the windows part of that statement isn't a warning i don't know what is... :-P
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Careful of the keylogger in Windows too. All them passwords.....
<knightwise> true ,  i mostly use the bash client to ssh to my server at home
<TwistedLucidity> Article: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/03/microsoft-windows-10-keylogger-enabled-default-heres-disable/
<TwistedLucidity> Seems it might be related to predictive text but even if you disable it, it appears that updates silently enable it.
<knightwise> I hate the autocorrect
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy World Water Day! ð ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: odd one for you today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dBymrfhYI8
<zmoylan-pi> world water day... in ireland... is that some kind of joke?! :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpKbULrB9Z8
 * zmoylan-pi peeks outside the window and sees waterworld irish cut... cold, wet, raining, miserable... :-/
<zmoylan-pi> 22 years since waterworld... and it made a profit...
<Azelphur> so, my day went well last night, http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/352963/tried-to-grow-my-raid6-array-with-a-new-drive-got-failed-to-restore-critical-s
<m0nkey_> Never dealt with mdadm outside of, "that looks cool".
<knightwise> morning
<diddledan> some fibre cable arrived just this minute
<diddledan> now all I need is the actual hardware :-p
<diddledan> I am now in possession of two SFP+ transceivers
<zmoylan-pi> is there a support group for that? :-P
<diddledan> you mean like druggies unanimous?
<zmoylan-pi> hardware conspicuous
<diddledan> I have everything now except the damned network cards
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> 22 Mar 17 1:33 PM - Shipment delivered - READING,UNITED KINGDOM
<diddledan> spelt my name wrong though: Signed By - D LIEWELLYN
<zmoylan-pi> that shouldn't hold you back... my boss once sold my monitor when i went to lunch and still expected me to finish the code without it... :-P
<diddledan> silly driver
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> is it possible to code psychically?
<zmoylan-pi> oh yes... don't expect it to work afterwards mind... :-)
<diddledan> or do you shove your finger in the DP hole and you can "see" the image?
<diddledan> DP = Display Port
<zmoylan-pi> you bang head off the keyboard till you see the matrix...
<diddledan> the cards might be coming on a boat :-(
<diddledan> has been 24 hours and still haven't arrived in the UK so I'm assuming they're not flying
<zmoylan-pi> might be on a train
<diddledan> last update was: Tuesday, 21. Mar. 2017 4:04 PM	Erlanger , Kentucky	Shipped from the Global Shipping Center to International Destination
<zmoylan-pi> ah... then deffo in nsa hands... :-P https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I don't want an implant!
<diddledan> unless it's one that I choose to have to turn me into a cyborg
<zmoylan-pi> the only cyborg running windows vista...
<diddledan> ew
<zmoylan-pi> even zx80s point and laugh
<diddledan> cotton traders are still running XP on their POS equipment
 * diddledan spooted that at the weekend
<zmoylan-pi> xp can be ok as long as you have no usb ports, internet and a big stick...
<diddledan> I wanted to offer my services to upgrade it for the lady in the shop. or at the very least scare the poo out of her with stories of vulnerabilities which aren't going to be fixed ever
<zmoylan-pi> unfortunately their pos system won't work on newer version of windows unless they shell out 5 figures to supplier i'm guessing
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> morons
<diddledan> they should use Gentoo
<zmoylan-pi> or reactos?
<diddledan> when you're running a system that breaks every 5 minutes you don't worry about upgrades anymore
<diddledan> you just do them and hope for the best
<diddledan> netflix now works in firefox+linux: http://techblog.netflix.com/2017/03/update-on-html5-video-for-netflix.html
<davmor2> diddledan: on any ff past 49
<diddledan> possible shots fired outside parliament: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39355940
<Seeker`> "There was a loud crash outside parliament, then lots of shouting. I saw a policeman being assaulted, then a man carrying a knife or gun" http://twitter.com/polhomeEditor
<zmoylan-pi> also looks like they used a car and ran down a few people first
<diddledan> the guardian has a live updating page: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/mar/22/peers-say-brexit-with-no-trade-deal-would-cause-signicicant-damage-to-service-sector-politics-live
<zmoylan-pi> i was following sky on youtube... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
<popey> :(
<directhex> http://www.feralinteractive.com/en/news/752/
<acheronUK> yikes!
<diddledan> I think it is the European nurses revolting over brexit
<directhex> they're not revolting, they're just leaving
<diddledan> they can't be revolting, because that would be unhygienic for an NHS hospital
<daftykins> no news comes before this: https://html5zombo.com/
<daftykins> diddledan: derp kitty face is #1 http://i.imgur.com/AG218lG.jpg
<diddledan> <3
 * diddledan snuggle kitty
<daftykins> purrs like an engine that one!
<diddledan> awww
<diddledan> <3 <3 <3
<m0nkey_> wtf is happening in london?!
<diddledan> m0nkey_: nurses revolt
<diddledan> some kind of attack outside parliament
<daftykins> they're revolting?
<diddledan> you're telling me, like s**t on a stick
<diddledan> nsfw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztf4hcGrB4
<daftykins> was that a Wilhelm scream?
<diddledan> it's from the movie "history of the world, part I" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World,_Part_I
<diddledan> "We are writing to inform you that your recent GSP item has cleared customs and is now out for delivery with the carrier"
<diddledan> I wonder if that means they're gonna try delivering tonight or gonna wait till tomorrow?
<daftykins> Gerbil Space Program item?
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> global shipping programme
<daftykins> ah i'd wager tomorrow if you only just got that
<daftykins> then again i might be used to the island pace of things...
<diddledan> no import doody - all costs included upfront and taken by ebay
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> or rather no separate import doody
<daftykins> did y'catch me moaning about how it seems the local B&Q branch charges us the same rates as England then pockets the tax? i need to do more research on that one
<diddledan> no, I missed that
<diddledan> tis sucky nuts :-(
<diddledan> I think if you don't have the tax you should be able to pay less than us. I don't like that you pay less than us, but it's only right when you don't have the tax
<daftykins> exactly, if our island were run off UK taxes it would be fine - but instead your government *beeps* us at every turn
<diddledan> damn, a police person is being reported as having died :-(
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> 4 dead and at least 20 injured :(
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, yeah
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-23
<lottak> Everyone safe?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Near Miss Day! ð  â
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4PlM85NJo
<SuperMatt> Ooof, I think Near Miss Day is a little bit on the nose, condering yesterday's attacks
<foobarry> quiet round here nowadays. has sl4ck meant that people are using irc less?
<foobarry> certainly happened here
<SuperMatt> I never really start conversations
<SuperMatt> Unless you now wish for me to talk about going to the Power Rangers on Sunday
<SuperMatt> because I'm sure excited about that
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I can tell, next you'll be saying that the kids made you be we know it is the other way round ;)
<SuperMatt> I don't have kids
<SuperMatt> I'm just a lifelong power rangers fan
<davmor2> see
<davmor2> SuperMatt: someone had to be
<SuperMatt> :D
<SuperMatt> As a child I bonded with others over power rangers. It was amazing
<davmor2> SuperMatt: yes then they got lives and lived happily every after ;)
<SuperMatt> LIES!
<davmor2> SuperMatt: to be fair the effects in it look much better....I'm still waiting for the Thundercats live action movie myself though :D
<SuperMatt> Oh gosh yes, that would be amazing
<SuperMatt> Though the question is always, who should play Cheetara?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Milla Jochovich, Scarlett Johansen or Summer Glau
<SuperMatt>  always see Cheetara as being quite tall, which Johansen and Glau are not. Jochovich would be good
<davmor2> possibly jennifer garner
<SuperMatt> +I
<SuperMatt> *Jovovich
<davmor2> SuperMatt: thinking face shapes more than height they can put them on ramps nowadays
<SuperMatt> I guess if I'm thinking about someone who runs fast, I don't think of Scarlett Johasson
<davmor2> SuperMatt: oh Kate Beckinsale
<davmor2> SuperMatt: have you not seen in ghost in the shell, avengers etc running is all she does ;)
<SuperMatt> I know, but she doesn't have the body of a sprinter. Her figure just isn't cheeta-eque.
<SuperMatt> She's an extremely attractive woman, but I don't think she'd be right for the role
<SuperMatt> and this is all just speculation
<davmor2> SuperMatt: yeah but if we build it they will come.......damn wrong film
 * diddledan wonders if his network cards will arrive today
 * diddledan anticipates
<diddledan> so excite
<diddledan> fibre optic for the first time in my life!
<daftykins> never used optical cables? :)
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> the closest I've been so far is a spaceship lamp
<diddledan> one of these jobbies: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lZkz_I0ZT8c/TVFqkqKIfdI/AAAAAAAAZ_s/pmSCk12gTCU/s1600/fibre_optic_lamp.jpg
<daftykins> i'd be concerned at the power draw for 10GbE in the home, hrmm
<diddledan> the power is worse with 10GBASE-T than fibre
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i'd be interested in seeing some data on that, anyways
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I nead a meter
<diddledan> had an asbestos inspector a short while ago
<diddledan> I wonder if I have any, and how troublesome it'll be to remove
<daftykins> very!
<daftykins> it'd be a full move out affair if you did i'd imagine
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> they might nick me PC!
<davmor2> diddledan: Asbestos is a pain in the arse big time, really would be out of this house for 24 hours minimum
<daftykins> diddledan: and all your transceivers!
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> all both of them
<diddledan> and my nice aqua fibre cable!
<diddledan> I got my transceivers from these guys: http://www.fs.com/ they were brilliant
<diddledan> excellent hand-holding, checked with me what I'm putting them into to ensure they sent me compatible ones
<daftykins> excellent
<diddledan> *would buy again*
<daftykins> ooh it would've been neat to get a premade length of fiber to get down to the end-of-garden building at my clients
<daftykins> we had his electrician lay two outdoor spec cat5e or 6, but only one works
<daftykins> runs along the top of a wall inside PVC tubing
<diddledan> what's the betting the leccy didn't know how to wire the plug/socket on each end? :-p
<daftykins> oh we don't even let him attempt, leave all the termination to me
<daftykins> i like my 'B' wiring scheme anyway!
<diddledan> omg, I had completely forgotten about this show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0s6nyrQxgw
<daftykins> diddledan: i have completed my best work to-date - https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3b8nknk2riamrr/IMG_20170323_193116.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> kittyphone!
<Azelphur> so, I managed to recover my raid array, \o/
<Azelphur> Now the only question is to figure out what on earth happened
<diddledan> Azelphur: did you manage to finish the rebalance?
<Azelphur> diddledan: no
<Azelphur> I managed to bring the array back to a state before the grow
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> at least you got your data back
<Azelphur> so everything is fine, all my data is good
<Azelphur> yea
<diddledan> now. backup before trying again :-)
<Azelphur> Sure, you got somewhere I can dump 13TB?
<diddledan> Amazon S3?
<Azelphur> haha, maybe
<diddledan> I'm not sure on costing though
<Azelphur> although on my upload, it'll take about 3 months to upload.
<diddledan> dang. good point
<diddledan> I only have a 1TB cap anyway so I couldn't have done it if I had the same requirement
<Azelphur> essentially the sequence of events has been, mdadm ejected bad drive from array (don't know why), bought new replacement. Tested bad drive with badblocks. Bad drive did 3 passes with no errors, no reallocated sectors, nothing in dmesg. Tried to grow array onto bad drive, mdadm sat at rebuilding 0% and didn't even start rebuilding. Attempted solutions resulted in hard crashing the machine, I then had to recreate the array with --assume
<Azelphur> -clean
<Azelphur> and I'm now running badblocks again on the bad drive, and it's still passing
<Azelphur> so...yea, this is odd.
<Azelphur> drive is fine, unless you want to add it to a raid array, in which case it is broken.
<daftykins> and this is why hardware controllers can be nice ;D
<Azelphur> why? I feel like if I had a hardware controller in the situation I am now, I would have lost my data
<daftykins> what are the disks? any cheap crappy models like WD green?
<Azelphur> yea, cheapo drives, USB shucks
<daftykins> well no you wouldn't have had it threatened in the first place
<daftykins> also ugh at badblocks, way to stress a disk in question
<diddledan> daftykins: STEP AWAY FROM THE SMART REPORT!
<daftykins> 8D
<Azelphur> daftykins: I want to stress it, if it fails, I will replace it.
<diddledan> I swear disks are like schroedinger's cat. both alive and dead until daftykins looks at the smart report at which point it is de facto dead
<diddledan> --e
<daftykins> pff
<diddledan> Schrodinger? (no e)
<daftykins> Azelphur: so what are they?
<diddledan> I can't write an umlaut in Windows
<diddledan> well I might be able to, but I don't know how
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://dpaste.de/duXu
<Azelphur> sdg is "bad drive"
<diddledan> seagate?
<Azelphur> yep
<diddledan> yeah, it's dead :-p
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan> I don't stereotype often, but when I do, it's about seagate disks
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> and you're mixing them too?
<Azelphur> I think mixed drives are a good thing, it prevents manufacturing faults from taking out a bunch of drives simultaniously
<daftykins> yes that's a nice theory, shame you chose seagate craptastic ones
<daftykins> welp you gotta start with the basics if the SMART is really clean, cable + SATA controller
<Azelphur> they aren't actually craptastic, the whole seagate thing stems from one single line of 3TB drives, beyond that one product line they actually have similar failure rates to other brands
<daftykins> no, it stems from the fact they're not even willing to put more than a 2 year warranty on their own drives.
<daftykins> that tells you all you need to know about Seagate.
<Azelphur> heh
<Azelphur> I prefer the Toshibas for that reason, you'll notice most of my array is comprised of them :)
<daftykins> they're not HAMR drives are they?
<Azelphur> no idea what that is
<Azelphur> "As of 2016, no hard disks using HAMR are currently on the market" according to wikipedia
<Azelphur> so um...wat?
<diddledan> I hear good things about HGST drives
<daftykins> heat assisted magnetic recording
<davmor2> they just trying to stop HAMR TIME
<daftykins> nevermind i'm thinking of the tech that has to rewrite neighbouring tracks on write
<diddledan> shingled?
<daftykins> that sounds like the one
<daftykins> SMR or so
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-24
<directhex> WHO HAS A PI 1?
<zmoylan-pi> which pi 1? the pi a or b?
<directhex> doesn't matter
<directhex> as long as it runs raspbian jessie or above
<popey> i have a pi zero booted if it helps
 * zmoylan-pi pats my pi b...
<directhex> what cpu arch is pi zero?
<popey> same as 1
<directhex> v6?
<popey> ya
<zmoylan-pi> which pi zero? :-)
<popey> w
<directhex> https://twitter.com/directhex/status/845061252430860289
<directhex> ^^
<directhex> hm...
<directhex> make that http://xamjenkinsartifact.blob.core.windows.net/specialthings/raspbian/results/
<zmoylan-pi> pi zeros are quite rare though, aren't they? i usually just see people trying to order them as they keep running out of them
<popey> deb [trusted=yes] http://xamjenkinsartifact.blob.core.windows.net/specialthings/raspbian/results/ ./
<directhex> deb [trusted=yes] http://xamjenkinsartifact.blob.core.windows.net/specialthings/raspbian/results/ ./
<popey> so that?
<popey> hah
<directhex> yes
<popey> ok
<directhex> or https, if you prefer, and have apt-transport-https installed
<popey> forgot how slow these are
<directhex> normal xamarin mono is built for v7, and throws SIGILL during GAC installation (which will happen when apt gets to libnunit-core2.6.3-cil)
<ali1234> i have a A+
<ali1234> it's closer to the Pi 1 than the zero is... slightly. same CPU though
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24238073/
<popey> this will take a while
<popey> ali1234: hey, nice video on pimoroni!
<ali1234> thanks :)
<ali1234> it was fun
<popey> yeah, it looked it
<popey> such a brilliant idea too
<popey> i have a couple of pi zeroes with usb headers badly soldered on with wires
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: the new zero w is more expensive and less rare. not to hard to obtain
<ali1234> popey: do you actually use device mode?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> what for?
<ali1234> i cant figure out why people want it this
<popey> when i want to test armv6 packages and dont have a display/keyboard
<ali1234> hmm i guess without wifi it would be useful
<popey> just have my laptop, so plug it in and run a shell script to setup ip forwarding
<ali1234> network manager should be able to do that for you automatically...
<popey> yeah, i faff with it
<ali1234> a couple of ideas i came up with are a portable apache for demoing websites
<ali1234> and exposing a USB storage device containing portable VNC, which then would connect to VNC running on the pi, making a portable desktop
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24238084/ thats the script I run
<popey> overkill probably
<ali1234> there is also a potential to upload the operating system over USB, so without a SD card at all, ut i don't think it works currently
<ali1234> that could be handled by regular hotplug firmware loading/udev rules
<popey> directhex: finished downloading and installing chug chug chug
<directhex> popey: should be 4.8.0.520?
<popey> Setting up libmono-corlib4.5-cil (4.8.0.520-0xamarin3) ...
<ali1234> so... is ARMv6 making a comeback then?
<ali1234> the architecture that just wont die...
<popey> well, on another machine I'm building gcc for armv6
<popey> like you do
<popey> ali1234: the other nice thing about your board is just the convenience of slapping it into a usb port with no cables
<ali1234> yeah, that was my main design goal... keep it really tidy
<ali1234> i have too many cables already
<popey> usb ports are all over the place here, and with wifi pi zeros, it's a computer plugged into an old ipod charger
<popey> directhex: what did you build this on/with?
<ali1234> i cross compile everything with the linaro toolchain... but i'm targetting pi 3 mostly
<ali1234> i build a raspbian chroot with multistrap and then use it as compiler sysroot
<popey> directhex: done
<popey> pi@raspberrypi:~ $ mono --version
<popey> Mono JIT compiler version 4.8.0 (Stable 4.8.0.520/8f6d0f6 Thu Mar 23 22:40:02 UTC 2017)
<directhex> popey: this is good news!
<popey> super
<directhex> popey: built it on my usual build farm. so this was on a tegra tk1
<popey> neat
<popey> i typically build in launchpad which i think means hp moonshot things
<popey> (i don't really know)
<directhex> big issue for us has been *publishing*, since you can't have v6 and v7 builds of the same package version in the same apt repo
<popey> oof
<popey> arm is wonderful, isn't it
<directhex> raspbian repurposing "armhf" instead of adding a new intentionally-incompatible arch name helped nobody
<ali1234> eh... blame raspbian/debian for using "armhf" to mean different things i guess
<ali1234> yeah, that ^
<popey> directhex: test complete?
<popey> bed is calling
<directhex> yes, thank you
<popey> np
<popey> nn
<directhex> i have a new nearly-ready-to-deploy pipeline for mono package building, which allows targeting multiple distributions per release
<ali1234> popey: that's a nice setup script, copying the ssh key etc. if you publish it somewher emore permanent i'd like to link it from zerostem.io
<KnightMac> #join #oggcastplanet
<MooDoo> morning all
<KnightMac> hey MooDoo
<KnightMac> how are you
<MooDoo> KnightMac: very well thank you, and yourself?
<knightwise> Doing ok ,
<knightwise> last day of the week with a lot of stuff to do as ususal
<knightwise> usual
<knightwise> .. man its friday or what :)
<SuperMatt> glad it's friday, to be sure
<knightwise> True.
<MooDoo> aye i'm ready for the weekend :)
<SuperMatt> I'm certainly going to be on a go slow today
<MooDoo> yeah, but I finish at 1:45 today so thats ok
<SuperMatt> nice
<SuperMatt> half day?
<MooDoo> no, I work 6 - 1:45 on fridays
<SuperMatt> oh right, poets day
<MooDoo> hehe yeah sorta :) I pick the kids up from school so start earlier
<SuperMatt> ah right, good idea
<MooDoo> just so happens to be friday :)
<SuperMatt> my wife doesn't work, so if we do have kids, I'll never be the one to pick them up :(
<MooDoo> oh you can still pick them up, just turn up I do it all the time, they love the surprise :)
<SuperMatt> that's a good idea
<SuperMatt> got a few years before that happens though
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> It'll be sooner than you think, time moves fast like that :)
<diplo> Then they start wanting to walk themselves to and from school!
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> Oh but by that point I'll be sick of them anyway
<MooDoo> diplo: know that feeling but she's only 5 lol
<diplo> heh 8 and 10 for me
<MooDoo> 5 / 8 for me :D
<MooDoo> anyone going to GUADEC 2017
<diplo> Not me
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: Me owld Mucka 'ow am ya? and happy Friday, 1 week till Caravan not that I'm counting or anything like that
<MooDoo> just getting frustrated PICNIC ERROR
<davmor2> MooDoo: I love that Geeks can make any issue into a food eating situation
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think it is cus we're smarter than the average bear bobo
<MooDoo> davmor2: especially since people don't know what PICNIC error means lol
<foobarry> figner command only working with the username, not looking up firstname/surnames. any ideas?
<davmor2> foobarry: try finger instead :P
<foobarry> i have an alias in bashrc
<foobarry> :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Covered Raisin Day! ð
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkbA3E363So
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> what a waste of perfectly good chocolate...\
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<pchax> yo
<diddledan> https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/vroom-vroom
<diddledan> ^ trump gets to sit in a truct
<diddledan> truck*
<zmoylan-pi> you wouldn't let him be in charge of a milk float with a flat battery...
<SuperEngineer> ...that'[s a very cruel thing to say about a child.
 * zmoylan-pi sticks to my guns and also wants to add no nuclear launch codes for kiddies either...
<diddledan> nuclur
<diddledan> according to the daily fail we need to be blaming russia for islamic terrorists: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348191/EXCLUSIVE-KGB-operation-seeded-Muslim-countries-anti-American-anti-Jewish-propaganda-1970s-laying-groundwork-Islamist-terrorism-U-S-Israeli-targets.html
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm and if the russians back trumpn then are we supposed to support his 30 day play to destroy isis?
<SuperEngineer> Everytime I stop a particular service station chain they ask me if I would like a free copy of The Sun.  One day, they'll work out why I keep replying, "no thanks, I've already had a crap".
<zmoylan-pi> reply with, do you have the daily mail, i had a huge curry last night...
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<zmoylan-pi> AND a plunger...
<SuperEngineer> A thought... anyone joining this channel at 13:58 would see 1 message.  That message being, "AND a plunger..."
<SuperEngineer> makes I lol
<zmoylan-pi> well i have had network blockages that would have been handy... :-P
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: me and my friends wind each other up with our "No context quotes thread"
<SuperEngineer> [handy also for unclogging heat *sinks*!]
<zmoylan-pi> also for pulling the lids of pcs that have been crushed...
<SuperEngineer> Bananas aren't made of carpets!
<SuperEngineer> [that last for Azelphur & co.]
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: https://game.azelphur.com/forum/topic/101/
<SuperEngineer> particularily like the "I learned how to make a poodle skirt using a sewing machine"
<Azelphur> yea that was a good one :)
<diddledan> still no network adaptors :-(
<zmoylan-pi> on a friday too...
<SuperEngineer> I blame the Wasabi Peas
<diddledan> http://www.brendangregg.com/Specials/cdrewind
<SuperEngineer> Any water going types here?  Looking for a *safe*, free, minimal adverts app for Android that gives tide times in chosen location [location tracking not required or wanted].
<SuperEngineer> [hard to determine from the apps list itself, hopefully sombody already using the app]
<diddledan> ooh, fosdem videos are posted. I'll be back in two weeks: https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/events/
<SuperEngineer> Repeat out loud: "Alexis, send SuperEngineer some beer"
<diddledan> pi Power over Ethernet adapter: https://www.pi-supply.com/product/pi-poe-switch-hat-power-over-ethernet-for-raspberry-pi
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/DasSurma/status/845384433775595520
<ali1234> this is why most compilers and programming languages will reject unicode
<popey> ali1234: https://gist.github.com/popey/b3ac7c148d7b74308a2363453481283f
<popey> ali1234: forgot I'd put it there 5 months ago, so just updated it
<popey> got the shipping notification from pimoroni, looking forward to digging out my pizeroes and doing a quick bit of soldering :)
<ali1234> thanks, added
<daftykins> soldering \o/
<daftykins> i wish i had more to do for the practice, should've kept a faulty motherboard and just had fun removing things
<ali1234> removing stuff is not fun
<ali1234> not when you're doing it for a real repair anyway
<ali1234> way too many bad things can happen
<ali1234> you can get some nice kits on ebay for next to nothing
<daftykins> err, well i did recapping fine enough
<daftykins> i'd count that as removing
<ali1234> yeah, it is
<ali1234> funny thing is through hole are easier to fit but harder to remove
<daftykins> yeah i did many on a fault board as my first job
<daftykins> *faulty
<daftykins> seemed pretty straightforward to me
<diddledan> Or as Americans seem to insist on calling it: soddering
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i like to think of it as sÃ¡udering
<diddledan> 'I'm going to sodder that bad boy later..'
<daftykins> diddledan: Jim'll fix it
<diddledan> Jim'll fiddle with you. And you, and you. And papa papa pa, just don't tell papa
<diddledan> Ok that's bad taste ;-p
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> best part was i could hear the theme as i read it though
<diddledan> I always read that name without the n: twinsenx
 * diddledan boshes them for join/parting so often
<daftykins> that's the first time i've seen that nick o0
<diddledan> They never speak
<zmoylan-pi> if we started banning users for that... :-)
<diddledan> Better to ban folk making songs for pederasts
<diddledan> Oh wait..
<diddledan> Forget that
<diddledan> Is it bed time yet?
<daftykins> i'm feeling that way
<daftykins> just got prodded by these - http://i.imgur.com/e0RCn6E.jpg
<diddledan> Aww
<diddledan> Kittypaws are cute
<daftykins> the weapons man! the weapons!
<diddledan> Mind you, most kittythings are cute
<daftykins> they make katana 'shing' sounds when she walks ;)
<diddledan> Lol
<zmoylan-pi> right up until they decide to take a shortcut and jump onto you from stairs and land using claws for anchorage...
<diddledan> Eep
<daftykins> ah she did that on my lap out of the blue when i didn't even know she was in the room the other day, i had my forearms exposed on my lap and so suffered greatly
<diddledan> They just wanna hug
<zmoylan-pi> and you have to stand their and patiently unplink each claw one by one till the cat detaches...
<zmoylan-pi> trying to rip the cat off like a bandaid is something you learn doesn't end well in any way...
<diddledan> I posted this the other day, but it needs reposting. 90s gaming shows were .. erm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0s6nyrQxgw
<diddledan> I'd completely forgotten about that show, but I do recall watching it back then now I've rediscovered it
<zmoylan-pi> video games and tv shows never really gelled... by the time they were made the games were on their way down the charts... except for paperboy... that hung around for years...
<daftykins> ah don't forget that desert taxi one too ;D
<zmoylan-pi> and then when i was watching there were commodore 64, vic 20, zx spectrum 48k + 128k and amstrad games so most of the shows were for games that would never work on your machine
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Azelphur> Total number of drive failures this week: 5.
<Azelphur> High score
<zmoylan-pi> a personal best?
<directhex> mess with the best
<directhex> die like the rest
<diddledan> Azelphur: how did you manage that?!
<Azelphur> diddledan: in order, Saturday, USB stick connector was faulty, stripped it down and plugged it in, recovered the data
<zmoylan-pi> in retrospect, excavating a new pool beside the live data centre... :-P
<Azelphur> still saturday, HTPC crashed, SSD wouldn't show up in the bios, put it in my HDD dock and it showed up, ddrescue got 99.99%, dd'd it to a new drive and all was well
<Azelphur> still saturday, cousin turned up, "Hey this drive doesn't show up at all, it has all your cousins wedding photos on it, and they want to show it to the mum of the bride before she dies"...so no pressure then, turned out it had a windows install on it stuck in hibernate, so nothing would touch it, nuked the hibernate file, recovered all data
<diddledan> wow
<Azelphur> Sunday, added a new drive to my raid array, grow operation stalled during the critical section, then the machine crashed. Took me 2 days to get the data back, mdadm --assume-clean saves the day.
<Azelphur> Wednesday, I added an old 1TB drive to my computer since I was out of space, it was dead (click of death)
<Azelphur> and just now, I plugged my dads USB drive in, and that is click of deathing too.
<Azelphur> so actually, grand total: 6.
<MartijnVdS> maybe there's something in the water
<MartijnVdS> or air
<Azelphur> maybe
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one point of sales location destroy a few hard drives per week for a few weeks... they opened a gym next door... once i made a bubblerap pad for the pc to sit on they stopped dying.
<MartijnVdS> hooray for SSD
<Azelphur> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<sebsebseb> Gitter the IRC kilelr,, that wasm entioend here a few weeks back ?
<diddledan> unboxing porn, retro edition! OMG! https://youtu.be/nLy_jEbuY-U
<penguin42> ah I hadn't watched that yet
<popey> is that the IBM AT video from LGR?
<popey> at it is
<popey> *ah
<popey> worth watching
<penguin42> he's infatuated with it :-)
<popey> heh
<penguin42> but yes, a brand new Model M would b enice
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm surprised it took the date correctly
<diddledan> :-)
<popey> yeah, that surprised me too
<penguin42> I want to know what else is in that warehouse
<diddledan> yeah it sounds amazing!
<diddledan> grr @ american networks killing good stuff - there's suggestions the expanse is gonna get canned before season 4 (syfy announced season 3 is going ahead next year) https://www.wired.com/2017/03/geeks-guide-the-expanse-2/
<daubers> diddledan: I'd be surprised if netflix didn't pick it up
<directhex> popey: when you gonna get this PC then?
<popey> ooh! good call. is an evening after work okay?
<popey> directhex: tuesday any good to you?
<directhex> let me check with management when she's out of the shower. there's a morning appointment in the calendar, but i've forgotten *why*
<directhex> ok, yeah, that should work
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-19
<aid1> autojoin --run
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diddledan> moo
<brobostigon> meep
<diddledan> me-nanana
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ
<foobarry> did realise how small everything would be on a 14 inch laptop with 1080p resolution
<foobarry> turns out my old laptop was perfect
<SuperMatt> Just seen that 18.04 now has firefox 59, so I think it's time to do the upgrade :)
<foobarry> to budgie ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> no, regular ubuntu
 * diddledan smuggles some budgies
<SuperMatt> please, no
<diddledan> aww, you're no fun :-(
<diddledan> well that wasn't what I expected when I read the subject of the email: "Meet the Elite team"..
<diddledan> was an email about sky showing a new series called "Seal Team" about specops
<diddledan> I expected some kind of thing about Elite Dangerous
<diddledan> the space trading/shooter thing
<zmoylan-pi> now that's a geek :-D
<diddledan> apparently amazon are doing a sale
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think with the rise of twitch that main stream tv would see a market for a tv show about gaming. some of the ones in the 80s were good
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: http://kck.st/2FlN5G4
<SuperMatt> actually, I've just installed Ubuntu Budgie 18.04 in a vm, and it's pretty nice
<diddledan> SuperMatt: you smuggled that past us well
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<brobostigon> beware of the leopard, http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/cat.html#cat-leopard :)
<diddledan> are you getting bestial?
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> felinophilia
<brobostigon> I am doing research for the game i am designing, for the players to face.
<diddledan> aha
<brobostigon> the monsters for them to face.
<brobostigon> an maybe the odd arrow trap. lol no, your not writing an indiana jones film.
<diddledan> someone I worked with runs a character sheet site: https://www.dyslexic-charactersheets.com/
<brobostigon> i have seen that a few times, i am impressed.
<brobostigon> amazing bit of work.
<brobostigon> infact i got the sheet for my bard from it, :)
<diddledan> the robot uprising has begun: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
<diddledan> "and now for something completely different": https://petapixel.com/2018/02/12/picture-single-atom-wins-science-photo-contest/
<zmoylan-pi> and the atom is cursing as it blinked when it's passport pic was been taken... :-)
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> lady today: "do you know what i need to get some files off these?" https://i.imgur.com/ILDYofc.jpg
<daftykins> they're older than me!
<zmoylan-pi> sony discs of that era.... ::ponders:: they'd be readable if kept in a heated location and not fecked in frozen attic/garage...
<daftykins> i do have a drive still... but actually, do i want to go down that rabbit hole...
<zmoylan-pi> only quater of a century old... :-)
<daftykins> i kinda wish i were still 25 :P
<zmoylan-pi> when i started my boss was salvaging data off 20 year old 5.25" discs with 180k capacity iirc
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> but super advanced... you could take them out flip them over and write on the other side... :-)
<daftykins> i was just then trying to work out if it really meant that
<daftykins> er with these ones i mean
<zmoylan-pi> well the cpm computers that used them had 64k ram.  and that contained word processor, spreadsheet, database, basic and networked os when it booted...
<zmoylan-pi> one machine would have floppy or hard disk and would boot, then the next would boot and the next in turn till they had all started... twas a sight to see...
<zmoylan-pi> all pulling the os off the first system
<zmoylan-pi> diskless booting. super modern
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> the acorns at my secondary school would be arranged in a bank of about 6 per room side, with the main one (they always curiously chose the oldest model) hooked up to an external SCSI HDD which shared data to the rest
<zmoylan-pi> ah... scsi... have you terminated your hard drive chain properly? :-)
<daftykins> your name was mud if you chose the disk host machine to work from, snoozfest all lesson
<zmoylan-pi> someone is going to release a 100tb ssd drive... funny, not seeing a price... probably wouldn't fit in the rss article... :-P
<diddledan> I archived a load of 5.25 inchers a year or so ago
<zmoylan-pi> i remember around 2000 been ordered to hunt down and dispose of all 5.25" floppy drives and dump them
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> nooooo
<diddledan> they're still usable!
<zmoylan-pi> the very next day a customer came in with disks needing to be read...
<diddledan> haaa haaa
<daftykins> diddledan: no! let them go!
<daftykins> fancy not keeping just the one... ;D
<zmoylan-pi> of course i had hidden 3 drives in mini towers behind blanking plates were no one would spot them...
<diddledan> sneaky get
<zmoylan-pi> darn tootin'
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> did you do a Blue Peter reveal?
<diddledan> here's one I stashed earlier
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i might've asked you this one already, but several moons have definitely passed since... my old man maintains that 'font' refers to the size of text and only 'typeface' its' style, sound right?
<zmoylan-pi> well windows showed floppy drives even when not installed so no one would notice their pc had extra drive :-)
<diddledan> apparently all thoae BP builds were invented by a lil old lady in the middle of nowhere. she'd come up with the concepts herself, build various stages, and ship it all to the studio
<diddledan> .. along with detailed instructions
<daftykins> BP builds?
<diddledan> bloo peter
<daftykins> ooooh
<daftykins> sheesh can you tell i'm knackered xD
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> not sleepy time for another 4-5 hours yet!
<daftykins> i had to fight an iMac today, i am slain
<diddledan> ee gads
<zmoylan-pi> the usage of the word has been mangalised for so long that both are correct.  but originally font was a size, style and weight when used in printing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font
<daftykins> since when do 10.12 and 10.13 installers not even see a disk if it has no partition table? so rude
<daftykins> Linux had to save the day as usual
<diddledan> mangalised? is that "turned into a manga"?
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> put into a hand mangle and mangalised... used to squeeze water out of wet cloting in laundry process...
<diddledan> yeah, macos installers with no partition table you need to select "disk utility", possibly out of the top menubar, to prepare the disk
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: aww i was probing the vast zmoylan database, not wikipedia by proxy ;)
<daftykins> diddledan: i did but DU didn't see a disk at all beyond the flash drive itself
<diddledan> hmm, not seen that one
<zmoylan-pi> well when we were thought fonts in the late 80s we were thought the original variant but warned that silly computers and printers were wrong in how they used the word
<daftykins> i had to boot a *buntu and create GPT with an unformatted partition, then it saw it - and then it failed claiming the firmware couldn't be verified :|
<zmoylan-pi> back when setting up a printer meant breaking out a bic pen, opening the manual and setting a few dip switches :-)
<diddledan> I had a fun one at the weekend though. macos managed to rewrite my partition table just wonky enough that the EFI couldn't boot anything (loonicks nor macos) until I futzed with gpt to change the guid on the macos partition from the newly, wrongly, set FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
<diddledan> this blubber: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/221114/how-to-fix-broken-gpt-guid-and-unmountable-no-type-volumes
<zmoylan-pi> that's bizarre...
<diddledan> I actually used this one I think to get the correct APFS-specific guid: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/307780/macos-partition-startup-volume-type-ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-ffffffffffff
<daftykins> diddledan: standards really are slipping
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> sheesh though, on plugging the backlight ribbon back into the power supply PCB before closing up the iMac with the new SSD in - the traces on the tip had folded over backwards, much like closing your fingers would appear - meaning that when macOS flash drives booted - the backlight turned off and you couldn't see the screen anymore
<daftykins> (hopefully that didn't get chopped off - ended in ...anymore)
<zmoylan-pi> it feels like slipping back to the days of use the mode command to use assembly to iniate a drive before the os could see it pre ide... :-)
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> good old esdi drives... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or rll
<daftykins> diddledan: so can you PM me your phone # to pass onto these folks for the floppy recovery ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> "hi i have some floppy di..." *click*
<zmoylan-pi> give them a compass and a magnifying glass and let them get at it... :-)
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<DJones> Morning
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, elite: the musical.... :-) https://boingboing.net/2018/03/19/watch-elite-the-musical-the.html
<brobostigon> o/
<foobarry> is there a way to get firefox to group all my tabs from the same site together?
<foobarry> pretty sure that was common functionality some years ago
<zmoylan-pi> maybe an extension?
<zmoylan-pi> awwm not compatible since firefox quantum... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/autogroup/
<foobarry> hmm "vertical tabs reloaded" looks nice though
<knightwise> hey everyone
<zmoylan-pi> hey dr. knightwise
<knightwise>  hey zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> how are yo udoing dude :)
 * zmoylan-pi prepares to head to medical appointment to confirm my foot is not trying to kill me... again... :-)
<knightwise> oops , hope that goes well
 * knightwise just trying to avoid a total system crash due to low resources after moving house
<zmoylan-pi> cut back on slack usage, that'll free up some ram :-)
<knightwise> yea
<knightwise> couple of hours of sleep
<knightwise> or days
<brobostigon> patrick stwert on daily politics, :)
<brobostigon> stewert*
<knightwise> ooh , always good
<foobarry> i don't understand why people are calling the cambridge analytica stuff a breach. its a feature that has been widely used for years.
<diddledan> it's only a breach in the sense that they used the publicly documented api to do something unethical that facebook asked them to pinky swear they wouldn't do when they signed-up for the api
<diddledan> the true issue is the ease of which Facebook makes that possible
<diddledan> it certainly isn't a "hack" though
<foobarry> farmville etc must have collected data in the same way
<zleap> yeah,  this confirms what people have suspected for years,  we are now proved right
<foobarry> i don't even think there's a T&C that disallows the use of data. fb allow it as a feature
<foobarry> you only ever needed one dumb friend to install an app and the app sees what they see
<zleap> i kind of thought that they don't sell data,  they get money through ad clicks,  whuch are created by data
<foobarry> farmville had enough coverage to make a copy of facebook from the outside
<zleap> so data -> ad company -> display ad >L user click ad > fb take cut
<zleap> if that is the case it is a clever ploy
<zleap> hopefully CA will get a big fine, sadly this has come out now,  not after te GDPR comes in
<zleap> or they would get a bigger fine
<foobarry> a fine for what?
<diddledan> eeeenteresting
<diddledan> removing my NVMe drive fixes my motherboard's thunderbolt support
<diddledan> wonder what voodoo gigabyte did to conflict those two?!
<daftykins> shared PCIe lanes perhaps o0
<daftykins> shouldn't really be the case though, typically the M.2 slot comes off the CPU or the PCH
<diddledan> weirdly the thunderbolt device was visible just unresponsive when the NVMe was installed, but the UEFI settings were missing. removing the NVMe makes the thunderbolt disappear, but the settings appear in the UEFI setup, AND a new device for USB 3.1 (XHCI) appears.
<diddledan> I'm assuming the thunderbolt disappears because it's supposed to powersave until there's actually a thunderbolt device attached
<diddledan> ... and the powersave required it to be properly initialised which wasn't happening when the NVMe was installed, so the Thunderbolt was visible because it couldn't set itself to powersave
<daftykins> hmm i'd check on my desktop but i'm on the wrong one :D
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> of course my NVMe has my loonicks installation so I'm unable to boot that to check how things appear in the hacker world
<daftykins> ooh you fiend
<daftykins> so uh - i brought those floppies home
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> you're a sucker for punishment?
<daftykins> i'm now playing "which mobo has a controller?" and sadly the answer is the PC at my office desk i'm on now, a core 2 quad extreme
<daftykins> yeah, apparently the wrestling with the iMac yesterday wasn't enough
<diddledan> I've got one of those laying about over in the back
<daftykins> now i've got to check my spares shelf for a floppy ribbon
<diddledan> got a couple of those, too
<daftykins> oh no wait, the PC it's in *does* have a controller, i'm just blind
<daftykins> i must've tried to spare myself the task by mentally redacting it
<diddledan> :-/
<diddledan> :-\
<diddledan> :-|
<diddledan> :--
<SuperEngineer> diddledan's making faces again, Miss!  Miss, Miss look at diddledan!
<diddledan> *duck*
<zmoylan-pi> america has pedestrian killed by a self driving car.  the uk has man killed by an electronic footrest... what the hell is an electronic footrest?
 * diddledan rips some blurries
<diddledan> (rips them a new one ;-p)
<daftykins> woo
<zmoylan-pi> rip the blu ray to a 5-6gb file and then watch it on your 4" phone :-)
<daftykins> still need to transfer a recent one to a clients server, brought home his 2 x 10TB RAID1 synology NAS though yesterday, so i can continue to configure that here
<diddledan> I'm a bit wary of makemkv being rather shady legally, so I've used the windows desktop app converter to pop it in Windows equivalent of a snap package
<daftykins> y'say that but at least said phone might be 1080p or greater ;)
<daftykins> diddledan: sounds horrible
<daftykins> just use it as it was intended :>
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> my phone cost more than 10.80p!! :-)
<diddledan> but VIRII
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: barely ;)
<diddledan> .. legal
<diddledan> so now that flixster is going away soonish (already gone in murrica apparently, so I'm assuming it's going here too) who actually supports UltraViolet streaming in the UK now?
<zmoylan-pi> oh yeah, that's dead now, isn't it?
<diddledan> ref: https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/20/17033602/flixster-video-service-shuts-down
<Azelphur> daftykins: it was you I was talking to about Device or resource busy with deluge, right?
<Azelphur> Might amuse you, actually looks like it could be a kernel regression.
<diddledan> oooh
<Azelphur> me and another user have the same issue, and the issue went away for both of us with an older kernel, Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<diddledan> kernel shenanigans?!
<Azelphur> appears so
<diddledan> awesome
<daftykins> Azelphur: hah, sheesh
<daftykins> Arch to blame then? ;)
<diddledan> apparently you can link your googley playdoh, appley ispoons, amazon primates, and ultraviolet using moviesanywhere.com via a vpn
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope - debian also effected
<daftykins> which kernels?
<Azelphur> daftykins: not sure, the user mentions downgrading on 4.9.0 on Debian 9.4 stretch - but not what kernel he has
<Azelphur> daftykins: just to make it weirder, see this quote from ##linux https://forum.deluge-torrent.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54871&p=227993#p227993
<daftykins> messy
<Azelphur> so maybe some weird issue involving boost and newer kernels and nfs (?) I'll keep testing until I figure out where the fault is lol
<daftykins> what's happened to our resident penguin?
<zmoylan-pi> found a pack of penguin bars and is making a nest?
<daftykins> :D could be
<zmoylan-pi> i believe the current technique to find penguins is to use satellites to look for their poo...
<daftykins> he posted 2 days ago on twitter
<daftykins> oh that's someone else i think
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-21
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning diplo
<knightwise> how are you today
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> hullo
<SuperMatt> I have upgraded to 18.04
<SuperMatt> for some reasons snaps don't work, but otherwise I am pleased with this beta
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> SuperMatt: which DE?
<SuperMatt> Gnome
<SuperMatt> I've always liked gnome
<SuperMatt> I've had a look at kde, budgie and mate, but tbh gnome is the one that sits nicest with me
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> mate is nice for light systems
<knightwise> cool to see how it has made such a comeback
<foobarry> oh the ubuntu gnome beta is out? i thought there wasn't a beta1 of gnome release
<foobarry> can i see a screenshot please from your setup?
<knightwise> whow
<knightwise> just changed the UI from my elementary machine to classic unity
<knightwise> its MUCH faster
<knightwise> I didnt expect taht
<diplo> Hey knightwise - lag response, busy morning.. good thanks, yourself ?
<foobarry> anyone good at tensorflow?
<SuperMatt> I'm good and beerflow
<SuperMatt> *at
<brobostigon> and CoffeeFlow. :)
<SuperMatt> I'm not a coffee drinker
<SuperMatt> tbf, I'm not even a beer drinker
<SuperMatt> I just padded out my cv
<SuperMatt> I should have said WineFlow
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> did someone say the wine is flowing?  please dm address or send me some]
<diddledan> machine learning confuses the poo out of me
<diddledan> I think, like quantum physics, anyone who claims to understand it is delusional
<foobarry> its taking over the world
<foobarry> every research discipline is using tensorflow
<foobarry> even humanities
<SuperMatt> https://i.imgur.com/Ss2qt.jpg
<foobarry> wow clean desktop
<SuperMatt> oops, gotta close down irssi now because digital ocean are about to reboot my droplet for spectre/meltdown purposes
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> hoho
<daftykins> mmm so AMD have responded to those CTS Labs findings
<diddledan> oh?
<daftykins> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12556/amd-confirms-exploits-patched-in-weeks
<SuperMatt> successful reboot  \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> daftykins: that amd thingy was real?!
<diplo> SuperMatt: not done out of hours, mines scheduled email is in the wee hours of the morning
<diddledan> judging by the obviously marketing driven announcement I assumed it was all hot air
<diddledan> it's early morning in west-us
<daftykins> diddledan: mmm, bit of a surprise
<SuperMatt> I preferred mine done in hours, so I could check at a non-stupid hour
<diplo> Ah, you can ask that can you?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<SuperMatt> I didn't
<SuperMatt> I just got an email, and I decided not to question it
<diplo> Or just reboot yourself and that's it? wasn't wee hours actually, just checked.. between 19/20:00 utc
<daftykins> i haven't lifted a finger with my DO VPS
<SuperMatt> They needed to patch the hosts
<diplo> Me either tbh daftykins, I normally let them do their thang!
<daftykins> yep :)
<NET||abuse_> hey guys, i've a new project to undertake, and I haven't programmed for a long while, maybe 3 years
<NET||abuse_> rather than default to the easy things i've done before, which would result in a PHP or Python microservice , I am thinking of taking on something like Go or Rust
<NET||abuse_> project is to write an events ingestor and consumers for enrichment and storage of that collected event data
<NET||abuse_> I thought something like python would be great for the ease of dealing with data libs, like numpy, pandas, etc.. but i think certainly at the parts that are dealing with the direct interfaces to the production stack, the events publishing endpoint listener, and the consumer which pulls in more data from prod systems, a lighter weight binary rather than python would be a nice touch, plus i get to learn something forward looking
<foobarry> who has to support it?
<diddledan> I volunteer to be ignored when that decision is made
<foobarry> i vote python3 for supportability
<foobarry> and for when NET||abuse_ falls under a self-driving uber
<zmoylan-pi> brainfuck because the cheap skates never paid for private medical insurance?
<daftykins> can you carry a soldering iron on flights?
<diddledan> I think that already happened considering the lack of responses
<zmoylan-pi> don't they ban knittng needles?
<zmoylan-pi> even crochet hooks... and probably straight to rubber glove time if you try with a gas powered one...
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> huh, 7" or less allowed... https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/61047/is-it-possible-to-take-a-soldering-iron-aboard-an-airplane
<zmoylan-pi> but some people have had them confiscated by tsa in america...
<daftykins> a friend who lives in England these days is planning on dumping a 37" TV when it just sounds like bad caps, heh
<zmoylan-pi> yes.. but not everyone is a dab hand with a soldering iron...
<daftykins> no, i pointed him to an ebay repair for that exact model for Â£60
<daftykins> he'd not even looked
<daftykins> pretty despicable attitude
<daftykins> must be excited to buy a new toy...
<zmoylan-pi> people are used to throwing good hardware away
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen people dump pcs because they were /slow/... when all it needed was a virus removal and a reinstall
<zmoylan-pi> but then... i get a free pc... :-)
<daftykins> mmm, but he messaged me to ask for advice on a new one, not how to fix the old :D
<zmoylan-pi> you could take the old one to the dump for him... repair it, and sell it...
<zmoylan-pi> and i don't think anyone is excited by a new printer... except someone sharing a cubicle with a dot matrix... :-D
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> well, he's a fair way away up on the mainland
<zmoylan-pi> those non islanders... pffffft.... mad i say... :-P
<foobarry> had a dodgy key on my new laptop
<foobarry> engineer came to replace keyboard, "most keyboards aren't perfect you know". erm one of my keys doesn't work. pretty fundamental
<foobarry> i think he was insinuating that i was being fussy
<zmoylan-pi> what's th worst that could happn? :-)
<foobarry> actually if you hit directly int he middle, it worked
<foobarry> but its a "little finger" key, that rarely gets hit square on
<foobarry> still doesn't fix the fact i don't have a home/end keys any more:(
<zmoylan-pi> use vim... gg gG :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a text editor invented before such keys existed :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Even after discussing reboots, still forgot to logout of my irssi session yesterday :D
<brobostigon> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<foobarry> this chan is down to about 10 active users now :(
<SuperMatt> maybe we should all move to discord
<foobarry> people went somewhere.
<SuperMatt> People just don't want to use irc any more
<foobarry> is there ubuntu community anymore?
<SuperMatt> I think so
<foobarry> where?
<Gargoyle> I've been on and off IRC for years, I think it's really slowed in the last 2!
<SuperMatt> The thing is, unless you run a server, you don't have a permanent connection to IRC, so you miss all the messages while you're offline
<Gargoyle> That's not always a bad thing! :)
<foobarry> slack provided a lot of features irc should have done 5 yrs ago
<foobarry> i realise its not so open, so OSS projects won't move there.
<SuperMatt> true that
<foobarry> but the u-uk ppl must have gone somewhere
<foobarry> or did mid-life just happen to them?
<Seeker> I still lurk
<SuperMatt> probs midlife
<Gargoyle> There's nothing like a baby to sap away any free time you had.
<foobarry> and your brain cells
 * Gargoyle nods
<foobarry> i also think , people get new jobs, change of scene, forget to sign in, then never go back
<foobarry> a lot used to lurk as a way to get in touch. now there's twitter/whatsapp
<foobarry> but the u-uk podcast ppl used to be active in here , which isn't true anymore
<diddledan> the ubuntu podcast telegram is active with a few folk. that's mostly where popey is these days
<foobarry> i haven't used telegram
<popey> [FACT]
<foobarry> is it a phone only thing?
<popey> no.
<foobarry> is it like whatsapp?
<foobarry> what's the uupc channel?
<SuperMatt> Would there be much scope in Ubuntu having a discord or slack channel
<popey> Ubuntu has a discord
<popey> and slack
<foobarry> community chat or support?
<SuperMatt> Are they more active than irc?
<popey> depends which one you're asking about. :)
<SuperMatt> either/or
<popey> slack, no. there are more topic based slacks
<popey> the ubuntu slack isn't used at all.
<popey> the ubuntu discord is lightly used.
<foobarry> seems i need to install telegram on android before signing up
<diddledan> AI analysed the hitchhikers' guide and this was the intuited response: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/j8QR41o5/image.png
<popey> telegram is indeed mobile first,
<popey> telegram is way more active for me. I am in a ton of them, and use it as a primary means of comms for lots of things
<popey> slack, I am in about 20 slacks, of which only 5 are active
<foobarry> can u suggest some useful telgram chans pls? i'll try it out
<popey> https://ubuntupodcast.org/telegram
<diddledan> ^ +1
<foobarry> 655 members :o
<popey> :)
<popey> most are silent lurkers
<foobarry> the new irc
<diddledan> effin lurkers
<popey> I lurk in the elementary os slack, bad voltage slack and some others
<diddledan> ooh, I'm not in bad voltage
<popey> I have one entire screen dedicated to irc, slack and telegram
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that's where you need a tiling window manager for that screen
<popey> I just use CTRL+ALT+ numkeys to make Unity push them to the corners
<diddledan> :-o
<foobarry> weirdly didn't show up on global search. invite via the url only
<diddledan> yeah
<foobarry> didnt stop 656 people from finding it thuogh
<popey> most found it via the invite url
<popey> that we mention on the podcast and link to on the web page
<popey> we have to be careful because spammers find it, and join
<diddledan> and those bloomin iranis
<diplo> You guys in the BV channel? popey / diddledan - if so, someone want to invite me ?
<diddledan> not I :-(
<popey> pm me your email address and I will
<diplo> Ah is it email :) two secs
<popey> for slack, yeah
 * diplo remembers PM on irssi :D
<diplo> Ah it's only slack is it, thought they had a telegram channel
<popey> they did, but nobody wanted that, so we used slack
<diddledan> why can't everyone settle on just one system?!
<diplo> Ah ok, shall sign up to slack, kept away until now, but won't hurt
<diplo> diddledan: IRC!?!?
<diplo> :D
<popey> https://community.badvoltage.org/t/realtime-chat-with-bad-voltage-listeners/11443/32?u=popey
<popey> thats how you join it
<popey> https://badvoltage-slack.herokuapp.com/ is the direct link
<severnfold> sup guys
<diddledan> so, erm, daftykins .. yaknow how I said my thunderbolt only worked once I'd taken out the nvme. Well I did a firmware update on it to be sure it has the latest while I had it going, but now I've put everything back into PCIe (gfx + NVMe) it STILL BLOOMIN WORKS!!
<diddledan> did the firmware fix it or was it just removing and reconnecting everything that fixed it?!
<diddledan> .. or will it break again once I've boobed loonicks?!
<daftykins> diddledan: did think it a bit odd, you mean mobo BIOS or SSD firmware?
<diddledan> thunderbolt firmware
<daftykins> oic
<diddledan> it's definitely still working in Windows with all the hardware back in place where it was previously when it was broke
<daftykins> blame Cana... Loonix then, yesh!
 * diddledan will tentatively reboob into loonix. brb
<diddledan> ok. let's see what lspci says
<daftykins> goodness me at the bit on Radio 2 at mid-day going on about Guernsey considering allowing assisted suicide
<diddledan> still working here too
<diddledan> mystery
<daftykins> honestly i've seen so many updates to the BIOSs and firmware on my machines that have thunderbolt, not surprised there were some kinks to work out
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> Any of you guys use hosted phone systems - IE only handsets on desk, they talk to the hosted service directly ?
<daftykins> not quite, but i did set up FreePBX at home and bought an old Linksys SPA3102 to convert my PSTN line into a full voicemail and IP phone driven setup
<daftykins> also planning on putting one in for a client so they can have free voice calls between their 3 properties, that'd only need to be internal extensions though, no proper VoIP service
<diplo> I'm going to do freepbx at home at somepoint
<diplo> Got a customer who can't get a display working, the "technical team" basically don't have a clue and say follow this guide, well the guides wrong :P
<daftykins> heh :D
<daftykins> when in doubt, factory reset \o/
<diplo> Basically the issue is, if anyone comes along, the phones work, but caller display doesn't work, I said what port does that use, they have no idea, they want me to forward all ports, these are 80/443 to the phones internally
<diplo> I've nmapped the network, I've been told to open 5080/TCP, but that's closed on the phones, 5060/TCP is open, so hoping that is the fix
<daftykins> hmm mine are able to display the called passed along to the single SIP port from the FreePBX host, must be totally different
<diplo> I think the technical team are just how to tinker with the phone, not how to set up routers, he was trying to not blame me whilst blaming me, yet not giving any answers :)
<diplo> I'll do as they ask and then it's on them
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sounds like a plan
<diddledan> the great thing about a VoIP setup is you can record every call :-p
<diddledan> (easier)
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> and this m'lud is the recording od diddledan when he ordered 30 rottweilers to be delivered forgetting he had signed up to amazon door service... :-P
<daftykins> xD
<diddledan> the cats in the second delivery were a mistake
<daftykins> the victor shall be crowned #1 pet
<zmoylan-pi> arriving home 2 weeks later with a pepperoni pizza was the mistake...
<diddledan> my 7 year old nephew is currently in France on a skiing holiday. The videos his dad keeps sharing on Facebook scare the bajeebers out of me every time
<daftykins> cor yeah, fancy using facebook (:
<zmoylan-pi> been chased down the ski slope by a giant yeti?!! :-)
<diddledan> no they left me here
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
 * knightwise just ordered a second 25 inch screen 
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> since i have a bigger house i'm finally entitled to two displays
<brobostigon> :) good goo.
<brobostigon> good*
<knightwise> instead of getting another machine on my desk i'll just run my vm's and teamviwer sessions fullscreen
<brobostigon> cool.
<knightwise> I have an Lenovo laptop with a busted casing stashed down in the garage in my server rack acting as a home server
<knightwise> turns out teamviewer connections to that machine are lightning fast when done in the lan
<knightwise> almost no lag and unity performs great
<knightwise> so i'll just use it that way
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> Thought for the day:
<SuperEngineer> Most of those who expreience dolphins state that the experience enriches their lives & gives them a feeling well-being.
<SuperEngineer> ....So why don't they provide dolphins in hospitals?
<zmoylan-pi> nhs cutbacks mean they can't afford the tuna.
<SuperEngineer> :D
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: perhaps we need a dolphinbank similar to the bloodbank?
<SuperEngineer> "We need do do a transfusion but we don't know what dolphin type this patient is"!
<zmoylan-pi> new doctors uniform... https://images.halloweencostumes.com/products/17820/1-2/adult-dolphin-costume.jpg
<SuperEngineer> to do
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, proof that you can find anything on t'internets
<zmoylan-pi> yes but that also means rule 34...
 * diddledan looks for doctor-dolphin pron
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't that be prawn? :-P
<diddledan> lol
<SuperEngineer> It might be fun entering " doctor-dolphin pron" in a search and see if says "did you mean doctor-dolphin prawn"
<SuperEngineer> ...& shame on all those trying it!!!
<SuperEngineer> For all those without news alerts:  serious gunman & hostage situation currently onging in Framce
<SuperEngineer> France
<diddledan> :-o
 * diddledan fires up news 24
<diddledan> https://www.theonion.com/mark-zuckerberg-promises-that-misuse-of-facebook-user-d-1823988784
<Azelphur> So, friendly PSA for those of us using Asus routers, upgrade your firmware. Mine just got hit by a driveby attack running a firmware from 2017.
<Azelphur> (or at least, most likely)
<SuperEngineer> Isn't "just got hit by a driveby attack" street slang for a Google vehicle passing your home?
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: https://securelist.com/threats/drive-by-attack-glossary/
<Azelphur> although that is more geared towards HTTP, but the general premise is bots scan the internet looking for vulnerable machines, in this case my router
<Azelphur> most likely anyway, my internet went off, logged into the router, default language changed to Chinese, DyDNS setup, SSH server disabled, not sure what else, factory resetted it :)
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur, thanks for the link; but really? you really didn't think I knew it's contents already?  Really?
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: haha, sarcasm doesn't carry well over text
<SuperEngineer> nor does using haha [he was a WWII propagandarist].  "Ha ha" would be better.
<SuperEngineer> NEXT!
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> Azelphur: did you flash an update then factory reset again to be safe?
<Azelphur> yep
<daftykins> i remember hearing about Asus making firmware so bad they were subjected to a third party code review for x years, but i don't know which region that was in or who it was mandated by
<daftykins> honestly consumer kit seems so bad, but the only way to do things better is to end up with a 2 or 3+ box design which isn't going to be popular with many folk :D
<daftykins> maybe two if you're on cable
<diddledan> and change your password!
<daftykins> i took apart my 2004 floppy drive last night that i was trying to read those 1984 disks with, gave the dust a good scrub and then IPA'd the heads... after that i started getting file listings and even pulled off this 'Word v2' 94 page document they were after :D
<diddledan> I've got an urge
<diddledan> I wanna watch hackers. I'm sure that is classed as uncool by kids these days
<diddledan> the thing I don't understand, however, is why didn't my mates and I go around town on roller-blades too?
<daftykins> or hang out in clubs besting each others game scores
<diddledan> thet, also
<daftykins> when i watch it i am left with a feeling of wondering why my nerdiness looks far less cool :D
<diddledan> or even have clubs with games in them
<zmoylan-pi> hackers is a great movie.  mostly for the great soundtrack.  but the best hacker movie is and remians malcolm. also with a fantastic sountrack
<daftykins> malcolm o0
<diddledan> yes, the hackers soundtrack is epic
<diddledan> apparently selling downloadable software is not covered by the sale of goods regulations in the UK: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/23/software_good_ruling_court_appeal/
<zmoylan-pi> no computers whatsoever but still very much a hacker movie... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091464/
<zmoylan-pi> and you will laugh out loud :-)
<daftykins> hrmm, if i have an nginx setup with multiple sites - i remove one from sites-enabled/ because that client has ceased wanting theirs up, why does their domain then redirect to another site on the same host o0
<daftykins> ah well i'll just delete their A records too
<diddledan> daftykins: I don't know about nginx, but  Apache will route any unexpected hostnames to the "first defined" virtualhost
<daftykins> heh weird idea
<daftykins> suddenly one company could get redirected to another - gotta hope you don't host for two competitors :D
<diddledan> I think it is because virtualhosts were an evolution of HTTP from the original (HTTP/1.1 adds the Host: header) so originally apache could only host a single site. Virtualhosts then were in addition to the single site of old
<diddledan> I work around it by defining a virtualhost that doesn't show anything useful and make sure it's the first one loaded
<diddledan> hah, I just realised Penn from Penn & Teller is in Hackers
<diddledan> I knew for years that I recognised him but couldn't place where from
<zmoylan-pi> he's the pfy...
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I wonder how he ended up doing that
<diddledan> versus being a magical god
<daftykins> magic
<zmoylan-pi> looks like he was trying to get a movie career going then
<diddledan> hah. I found a fake phone number used in a whois record: Tech Phone: +1.5125551212
<zmoylan-pi> there's no 512 area code in usa?
<diddledan> 555 prefix
<zmoylan-pi> ah the 555...
<diddledan> I found that by looking up the domain of Loyd Blankenship who gave permission for "Conscience of a Hacker" to be quoted in Hackers (I'm reading the credits)
<diddledan> Updated Date: 2018-02-20T23:30:52.00Z Creation Date: 1995-05-30T04:00:00.00Z
<zmoylan-pi> now it would have to a page or 3 of the cathederal and the bazaar... :-)
<diddledan> I'm guessing that non-random time means that it was registered before the registration datetime was recorded
<zmoylan-pi> or the heisenberg compensators in his time machine are past their 1000 year checkup....
<diddledan> can you compensate against heisenbugs?
<zmoylan-pi> only if you confirm all the schroedingers
<diddledan> Has anyone tried compensating shroedingers?
<diddledan> ++c
<zmoylan-pi> nah, if you start paying schroedingers you need a completely bent 12th dan accountant to handle the temporal accounting
<diddledan> go to about 5 minutes: "it's been a few years since we had a new init system" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1v_o7ww43A
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * diddledan checks.. I'm not either of those
<diddledan> I'm a hermaphredite
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-25
<diddledan> clocks just changed
<diddledan> it's now 2am
<penguin42> give me my damn hour back!
<daftykins> indeed! happy BST
<daftykins> penguin42: ooh i have an update on that banking thing btw
<daftykins> turned out the guy used barclays wealth corporate which used this USB PIN entry device to login - and that relied upon 32-bit Firefox ESR so that the credential handling software plugins worked
<daftykins> so... legacy fun
<penguin42> ewww
<daftykins> had to reinstate it once i'd done the RAM and SSD upgrade in the iMac
<daftykins> then they gave me some 1984 floppies to recover data from :D
<penguin42> 5.25 ?
<daftykins> nah 3.5" - i had one drive from 2004 that wasn't reading, but a quick scrub to the heads got it listing files again
<penguin42> oh, they can't have been '84 then
<daftykins> that's the date stamp on the packet at least
<daftykins> still doesn't read everything, but did get a word document recovered of some guys 84 page autobiography
<penguin42> 84 is pretty early; I was still using 5.25 at the time and I thought most stuff was;  the Acorn machines started using 3.5 in 87 I think (at least that was the public release)
<penguin42> wikipedia says 84 was the date that double sided 3.5 floppy drives first shipped
<daftykins> nice :D let's see what it was
<daftykins> 170984 in an orange sticker on the front
<diddledan> I think we got a 3.5 incher (DD only, not HD-capable) in about 1989 or 1990
<penguin42> what format are they in - standard PC  720k ?
<diddledan> maybe as early as 1987 but that might be pushing a bit
<daftykins> packet claims 2MB ones (so 1.44 of course)
<penguin42> now that's really confusing
<daftykins> harping on about Sony 2DD
<daftykins> oh actually the disks inside are mixed a bit
<daftykins> the ones that actually match the packet don't read so well
<penguin42> DD is double isn't it rather than high - i.e. 1MB?
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.obsoletemedia.org/3-5-inch-microfloppy-extended-density/3-5-inch-microfloppy-identication-notches/  see the notch position (or absence) on the right hand side between teh 3
<diddledan> DD is 720kB and HD is 1.44MB
<daftykins> ah yeah so one has none - and the other is like the one in the middle
<penguin42> please tell me the oldest one is the DD
<daftykins> yip
<penguin42> ok, that could have got confusing
<daftykins> i didn't at any point look at the size on the disks, just touched files only
<daftykins> as those more often than not didn't even work well - dunno if that's down to my drive or not now though
<penguin42> daftykins: It's possible they're having problems with single density - I'd have imaged the disk rather than let a normal filesystem at it - I wouldn't want to let it write
<penguin42> daftykins: I wonder, also, it's possible they were written ona  Mac given the age, in which case they may be single sided?
<daftykins> i figured the write protect tabs would be enough for that
<penguin42> yeh probably
<daftykins> mmm well the main document seems to have been written by MS Word 2 apparently - though the lady mentioned something about an Olivetti PC and hrmm one other software name
<daftykins> yeah 'First Choice' software
<diddledan> digital archeology at work
<penguin42> hmm, the Amiga and ST was '85 and that was 3.5
<daftykins> given the amount of faff i had to do to even get the drive to show up to start with, it won't be coming cheap :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today, go to city centre and have a walk around...
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> maybe sample a beer or two.
<zmoylan-pi> teetotaler
<brobostigon> ginger beer? :)
<zmoylan-pi> still a bit cold for a cold drink
<brobostigon> i think the forecast here says about 12c this afternoon, so not too bad i think.
<zmoylan-pi> true but if you are out walking for 2-3 hours it can feel colder
<brobostigon> very true.
<brobostigon> i just noticed something cool in starfinder, in one of the classes as a class bonus, you can have a technological item that stores spells and allows you to cast extra known spells.
<zmoylan-pi> a loophole \o/
<brobostigon> no loophole, there by good design, :)
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<knightwise> any of you guys know why Ubuntu runs so sluggishly in a Vm (virtualbox) I'm giving it plenty of ram and resources to play with through
<knightwise> thoguh
<knightwise> though (srry)
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> compositing wM? inadequate graphics?
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> I think so , I think i also need to install the guest addons and see what that does
<knightwise> reminds me to push more ram to the videocard too
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> i finally gave my android in starfinder some clothes, so now he isnt walking around questing naked, although he is an android so it doesnt matter too much. :)
<knightwise> Yep , that did the trick :)
<knightwise> naked androids do seem tempting
<brobostigon> :)
 * knightwise finally got 2 25 inch screens for my setup
<brobostigon> :D
<knightwise> Gnome interface on ubuntu takes some getting used to :)
<knightwise> still want to treat it like unity because it looks like unity
<brobostigon> i was going to ask how close it was to standard gnome-shell, and that answers my question.
<knightwise> looks like unity, acts like gnome
<knightwise> very confusing
<brobostigon> odd, i will see it when i upgrade in about a months time.
<knightwise> yeah , the beta is out for the derivatives, right ?
 * knightwise things this is because they just haven't quite got it working for ubuntu propper
<knightwise> ok , giving it plenty of video ram fixed the issue , vm running smooth now
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> hmm, this sensation is odd....I think I'm actually warm
<SuperEngineer> time to change that nappy, penguin42
<penguin42> haha, no I turned the radiator down :-)
<DJones> Doesanybody have experience of a HP7612 A3 printer/scanner,are they any good, reviews I'm reading are mixed.  I need to get a new printer, A3 printing and duplex needed, would prefer to stick with HP by choice, and the 7612 seems the best option
<diddledan> apparently the BBC owns Channel 4 (according to this page): https://archive.org/details/channel4bits&tab=about
<diddledan> I've emailed them. no response yet
<diddledan> it'ld be nice if they allowed public edits
<diddledan> I didn't know that. IDE was just the ISA pumped down a wire. The drive controller was exactly the same as the old separate controller cards running on ISA
<diddledan> ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjJUgmn-9Do
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I'd heard that before; protocols keep moving around
<daftykins> diddledan: one thing i read was that in most cases the cards were just allowing a PATA port to be connected to the system bus (when you found a port on an unrelated device, like a soundcard)
