#ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 2014-11-12
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/12/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
<t1mp> hello
<akiva-thinkpad> t1mp, hey o/
<akiva-thinkpad> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22361/testing-unity-8-desktop/
<bzoltan> hello all
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | SDK tools: Updates | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22356/sdk-tools-updates-planning-and-feedback/
<nik90> hey bzoltan
<bzoltan> Hello nik90, we missed you in DC
<nik90> bzoltan: yeah sry I couldn't make it..
<mhall119> bzoltan: what, were you not picked on enough in DC without him?
<nik90> lol
<bzoltan> mhall119: what? Was I picked on? All I felt was love and support :)
<mhall119> :)
<nik90> mhall119: do you have a link to the tutorial which shows how to create a hangout and link it properly to the session page.. I need to create one in another 2 hours
 * nik90 is a bit rusty
<balloons> nik90, I can help with that
<nik90> balloons: cool
<balloons> nik90, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions
<startech> Hey Everyone. Are we starting soon?
<balloons> mhall119, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions should be linked on http://uds.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/join-a-session/ I think
<startech> Just refreshed webpage. says starting soon
<mhall119> startech: we just got the hangout setup, it should be live now (or soon, depending on lag)
<mhall119> refresh the page if you don't see it
<bubbly193> While we wait, has anyone gotten bzr working on Win 8.1 x86_64?
<startech> YEA!
<mhall119> nik90: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions has those details
<nik90> yup got it
<mhall119> bzoltan: where have you gone?
<bzoltan> mhall119:   how to join?
<mhall119> bzoltan: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYewFZvSrU9IiIzXG0DGVIjp2LMD4v_dStM5McxgGtme21BsfQ?authuser=0&hl=en
<startech> the dreaded mute button strikes again
<nik90> lol
<bubbly193> Not gonna work on Android Browser (ICS)...
<bubbly193> Going to switch to chrome
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: Are you planning to do anything to hook into didrocks "Ubuntu Developer Center" work to make it easy to install and maintain the latest development environment on a stable release?
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: Are you planning any work to make scopes development easier? (improvements to the template, javascript support)
<mhall119> rickspencer3: you mean for installing the SDK PPA and packages?
<rickspencer3> mhall119, yes, installing and maintaining
<rickspencer3> instead of using a PPA, etc...
 * rickspencer3 nods
<aquarius> QUESTION: were Kits sent by the devil to make life complicated? :( I don't understand why I need to care about kits -- why can't I just tell Ubuntu SDK about Devices, and then Kits are some internal thing which I never have to see? I know Qt Creator thinks they're important, but I think they're just confusing and Ubuntu SDK can do better.
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> welcome aquarius :)
<aquarius> heya mhall119!
<balloons> aquarius, +1 ;-)
<aquarius> love you too bzoltan :)
<aquarius> bzoltan, I understand why there are different targets. What I do not understand is why Kits and Devices are not the same thing -- I can create a Device without having a Kit for it, I have to add Kits to a project separately in the Build tab. Just let me choose "run on this device", and if you SDK people need a "kit" to do that, create it for me and use it without telling me :)
<mhall119> aquarius: mentally s/kit/target/
<aquarius> mhall119, but I can't think why I -- an app developer, not an OS developer -- why I would ever, ever need a Kit without a Device, or a Device without a Kit.
<bubbly193> QUESTION: I missed alot, so is there any underlying framework that let's an app be compiled once and run on any device, like Android's Dalvik platform?
<mhall119> bubbly193: if you use QML only, then yes
<aquarius> mhall119, you also have to add the Kit to the project in the Build tab. Which I always forget to do.
<mhall119> if you use C++, you'll need to compile different packages for different aches
<mhall119> arches
<aquarius> mhall119, if we were designing this stuff from scratch, we'd surely just have a "run on device: (list of devices)" button.
<mhall119> aquarius: again, s/kit/target/ and yes you have to add targets to your project, that makes sense
<t1mp> aquarius: a device (hardware) can have different versions of the the software installed
<aquarius> seriously, you guys are all looking at this from the perspective of OS developers. Sure, one kit can work for different devices. If when I add a new device there is a kit which already applies to it, then definitely you should use the same kit for both... but you don't have to *show* me that you're doing that
<startech> hardware arch recognition is a balancing act. Hardware stacks are like grains of sand
<aquarius> t1mp, that's an invisible implementation detail, in my opinion
<aquarius> t1mp, it's certainly important, but it's not important *to an app developer*. It's important to the SDK internals.
<t1mp> aquarius: if you have a newer framework available, you can use newer APIs, and you need to know in your app which APIs to use
<aquarius> t1mp, ah, that is, in my opinion, the wrong way round. I don't start with my device and say "what can it run?". I start with the api docs and say "what can I build", and then work out how to make devices run it.
<bubbly193> QUESTION: Does the SDK have adb like functions? I assume yes but I haven't made my full migration from Android dev yet, and haven't done much with SDK
<zbenjamin> bubbly193: the devices are actually running adb
<mhall119> bubbly193: Ubuntu Phones uve adbd
<mhall119> :)
<bubbly193> Good, from and android dev standpoint that makes thing easier
<kenvandine> yay for qmake!
<zbenjamin> kenvandine: :)
<aquarius> yay for not needing any sort of make tool at all
<bear_painting> hi all
<bear_painting> simple... drop the non LTS releases
<t1mp> bear_painting: we are using features of newer versions of QtC and Qt that are not (in the Qt version) on LTS
<bubbly193> Any closing points for any Android SDK Migrators?
<bear_painting> mark is next
<t1mp> bzoltan: I'm keeping a doc for the track summary by the end of the week
<startech> thanks guys
<matv1> thnx everyone
<aquarius> cheers, folks!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/12/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Clock App | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22337/clock-app/
<popey> nik90: heya
<popey> nik90: you starting the hangout?
<nik90> yeah sure
<popey> super super
 * balloons is coming!
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-clock-app
<kenvandine> i really miss the timer
<seb128> +1
<kenvandine> i relied on that when eating at our favorite fondue restaurant :)
<balloons> I'll also mention this session tomorrow; which we will examine this in a bit more detail: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22396/writing-unit-tests-for-qml-applications/
<mzanetti> technically nothing would prevent you to verify an alarm has been set successfully in the system in qmltests... not really to drag down the indicators and see if it's in there. but then the question is if that isn't out of scope because there are other tests that verify the indicators
<mzanetti> snoozing the alarm might be more complex. I would suggest AP for that too
<nik90> mzanetti: ok I will look into that
<balloons> mzanetti, feel free to pop into the session tomorrow. We're going to try and demo what nik90 has done with clock and spread that to the other core apps and beyond
<balloons> basically getting tests running as part of your cmake build, and expanding your qml tests
<mzanetti> -1 for running them as part of the build though :)
<mzanetti> except if you do like cmake -DINCLUDE_TESTING=1
<mzanetti> or something like that
<balloons> mzanetti, ahh, well good points to bring up.. but yes, the default cmake I think now is include testing
 * balloons not 100% sure.. might just be the unit tests
<mzanetti> hmm... so far I haven't seen the check target being automatically included in ALL
<ahayzen> that sounds like a familiar issue, eg with media-hub/ms2 changes causing the music-app to require multiple versions to run
<vthompson> ahayzen, it does. I haven't been watching the clock discussion until now. Are we going to be able to have 2 different clicks in the store?
<jounih> hey hey hey
<popey> yo
<ahayzen> vthompson, i just woke up ... maybe? but probably not for rtm? ... i wasn't sure from the discussion lol popey ^^ ?
<balloons> he's discussing now
<ahayzen> thanks nik90 :)
<nik90> thnx elopio
<nik90> hi jounih
<vthompson> ahayzen, balloons, as for the music app, hopefully supporting multiple frameworks and more importantly ms2 APIs, if need be, just means we need tests that are not dependent upon one version or another.
<ahayzen> vthompson, its only the move to background playlists which could be fun trying to get into one click version :P
<popey> nik90: sorry, delivery arrived..
<vthompson> ahayzen, oh right. That sounds scary actually.
<ahayzen> vthompson, we can't tell from the QML ... if frameworkVersion === X then ?
<nik90> popey: no no its fine...I didn't have other points to discuss
<ahayzen> vthompson, and more to the fact i don't *want* to have if frameworks all over our code
<nik90> mzanetti: hey, I will be hosting a session along with balloons tomorrow about my experience with writing qml tests
<popey> ahayzen: vthompson I'll setup the hangout for music in a few minutes, okay?
<ahayzen> popey, cool thanks :)
<popey> Letozaf_: you joining music too? â»
<vthompson> popey, thanks!
<nik90> mzanetti: I would feel much better if you were there to correct my mistakes and ensure everythign is alright ;P
<mzanetti> :D
<mzanetti> I'll see what I can do
<mzanetti> send me a calendar invite please
<ahayzen> vthompson, did i remember all the raised design points and put them in the etherpad? i couldn't think of any others?
<Letozaf_> popey, ok sure
<nik90> ahayzen, vthompson: what's the ETA for music remix replacing the current music app by default?
<ahayzen> nik90, very soon, the latest click is basically ready
<nik90> sweet
<nik90> looking forward to it
<Letozaf_> popey, the link ?
<ahayzen> nik90, just we need to get autopilot running on device again...as it is broken in trunk/remix
<nik90> ah ok
<ahayzen> nik90, we've been failing on the CI dashboard since forever lol
<nik90> ahayzen: same with clock lol
 * vthompson walks away slowly
<nik90> hehe
<ahayzen> nik90, like the first test or no tests will pass...but it works fine on desktop :)
<popey> Letozaf_: yeah, 5 mins
<Letozaf_> :)
<vthompson> ahayzen, nik90 seemed like a mocking issue to me. We tried to investigate it a bit in DC, but we were too busy to get anywhere
<nik90> ok
<ahayzen> vthompson, yeah it is a mocking thing
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Music Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22349/music-planning/
<popey> balloons: you around for music too?
<balloons> popey, nope, have manual testing session
<popey> kk
<popey> ahayzen: vthompson Letozaf_ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd8CiZAV5jSWDmQoTZF3FIXkKZAuKKbloOLa16YnXFuLnGIig?authuser=0&hl=enhttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd8CiZAV5jSWDmQoTZF3FIXkKZAuKKbloOLa16YnXFuLnGIig?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> gah
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd8CiZAV5jSWDmQoTZF3FIXkKZAuKKbloOLa16YnXFuLnGIig?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> just the one link needed
<lool> haha
<lool> the hangout URL actually has "lool" in it
<lool> and I was wondering why I was invited to this session
<popey> :D
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-music-planning
<popey> balloons: do you have ideas on how we can fix the mocking issue on music app to get it to pass ap tests?
<jdstrand> search! :)
<ahayzen> popey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1341814
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1341814 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Using search in the header can sometimes have a text field from a different tab" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Tim Peeters (tpeeters)
<balloons> popey, sorry I can't be there ;-( We managed to fix fm and calendar, I'm sure we can find a workaround until the metabug is fixed (aka the helper is complete)
<popey> balloons: ok, it's blocking us uploading music to the store.
<balloons> I thought it was fixed by ahayzen however
<popey> nope, sadly not.
<ahayzen> balloons, i didn't fix it? do you think the same fix would work for music?
<balloons> sorry; let's discuss after
<jdstrand> QUESTION: curious on bug #1251624. is this still blocked on media-hub functionality? (I just heard talk of recently played, perhaps just going backward from there would work...)
<udsbotu> bug 1251624 in Ubuntu Music App "back button should not be random when in shuffle mode" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251624
<ahayzen> jdstrand, we are/were waiting for background playlists to be done in media-hub
<ahayzen> jdstrand, as the shuffle management would be done by them then if i understand it correctly....but if we have time we could implement ourselves but as that code is going to be ripped out soon it is a low priority item
<jdstrand> also, since I have all of you here-- scrolling can be slow in 'Songs' mode. Curious if you all thought about using cacheBuffer with the ListView (it helps with loading offscreen elements)
<ahayzen> jdstrand, "slow"? .. the frame time is <16ms now
<ahayzen> jdstrand, do you mean the thumbnailer is slow at rendering the image?
<jdstrand> it is jerky on my n4
<ahayzen> jdstrand, is this on the new app?
<jdstrand> I was up to date as of this morning...
<jdstrand> I see empty thumbnails getting filled in during the scroll
<ahayzen> jdstrand, hmm with the remix that should be much much faster and not jerky ...you should get thumbnailer loading in async so they can be blank for a bit
<jdstrand> ah right, I'm not running remix yet
<ahayzen> jdstrand, try the remix ;)
<ahayzen> jdstrand, it has been massively optimised like eg delegate time from ~160ms->15ms
<ahayzen> jdstrand, oh the remix is confined as well btw :)
<jdstrand> oh nice!
<jdstrand> (on both counts)
<jdstrand> re rhythmbox: daap support would be awesome :)
<ahayzen> DLNA as well would be cool
<jdstrand> ahayzen: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/music_remix/20141104/trunk/ still has com.ubuntu.music_2.0.726_all.click. is that what I should be using?
<ahayzen> jdstrand, yep :)
 * jdstrand would use the music-app on desktop except for daap
<ahayzen> jdstrand, instructions in the readme in the folder /music_remix/
<jdstrand> wow, the remix is really nice :)
<ahayzen> jdstrand, thanks :)
<jdstrand> ahayzen: otoh, is there a bug on existing playlists?
<ahayzen> jdstrand, define bug
<jdstrand> ie, I go to playlists, it says there are X songs, I click on the playlist to play something, and it says 0 songs
<jdstrand> let me be less general
<jdstrand> I created a car playlist a while ago
<ahayzen> ewwwww has the playlists conversion gone wrong? or were your playlists bad before?
<jdstrand> it has 369 songs
<jdstrand> I click 'Playlists' and see the car playlist
<ahayzen> ..thats exactly the same amount of songs i have on device lol
<jdstrand> it says there are 369 songs. I tap the car playlist. there are no songs
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> I used this playlist last night
<ahayzen> hmmm we may have to look at that then sounds like something bad has happened :/
<jdstrand> I can file a bug if you like
<ahayzen> vthompson, ^^ playlists conversion might be broken?
 * jdstrand files a bug
<vthompson> ahayzen, hm
<jdstrand> I don't mean to derail the session
<ahayzen> jdstrand, yeah probably best would you be able to copy your database files into the bug as well? and the logs?
<vthompson> jdstrand, I wanted to talk to you a bit about whether click apps should be able to play music from ~/Music? Right now media-hub does not allow it.
<jdstrand> vthompson: that is a slightly complicated question. in an ideal world, the media-hub would ask apparmor if an app can access the file it is trying to play, and then allow or disallow it
<jdstrand> vthompson: however, apparmor doesn't have a file query api yet, so media-hub can't ask that question. instead, it has hardcoded a few things
<jdstrand> vthompson: so it does things liek 'if the profile name is 'unconfined', allow it, if it is 'music-app' and in ~/Music, allow it, if neither of those, is the file in the apps directory, allow it
<jdstrand> which is icky, but temporary until apparmor has a clean file query api
<vthompson> jdstrand, do you know when media-hub might be able to make that query?
<jdstrand> (which is actually not straightforward to implement, but there is a bug on it)
<jdstrand> vthompson: jhodapp knows the exact location in media-hub it is doing it
<jdstrand> I could pull the source... you could grep for apparmor
<vthompson> jdstrand, cool. jhodapp has pointed out the code he has that does it
<jdstrand> ahayzen, vthompson: fyi, bug 1392022
<udsbotu> bug 1392022 in Ubuntu Music App "0 songs reported after selecting playlist after updating to remix" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392022
<ahayzen> jdstrand, thanks
<vthompson> jdstrand, cool, thanks!
 * ahayzen hopes playlist conversion isn't now buggered
<ahayzen> jdstrand, are you able to attach the latest log from .cache/upstart (the latest one with music in it)
<vthompson> ahayzen, I'll do a quick test by removing the app and the .local and try it
<ahayzen> jdstrand, and the database which is in .local/share/com.ubuntu.music IIRC
<ahayzen> vthompson, hopefully this won't result in a 3hr chase over a 1 line fix like last night :P
 * vthompson walks away slowly again
<ahayzen> vthompson, i have a nuclear bunker you can hide in with me?
<ahayzen> vthompson, i
<ahayzen> arg
<vthompson> ahayzen, no nuclear bunker is safe from music app bugs
<ahayzen> vthompson, i'll check through the code to see if there is anything obvious
<ahayzen> vthompson, that one last night canLoad = false causing the queue to magically repopulate \o/ blew my mind at like 4am lol
<vthompson> ahayzen, I know. I went back to vivid and I think it's also fixed there now! But I didn't test as much because, quite frankly, I was sick of retesting :)
<ahayzen> vthompson, \o/ i'm still unsure if i should be running rtm-proposed or vivid-proposed ?
<ahayzen> vthompson, i heard of certain media-hub fixes landing in vivid which i want so i may make the jump :)
<vthompson> ahayzen, well the water is nice in vivid
<ahayzen> :)
<ahayzen> vthompson, trunk playlists are db version 1.2 right? with the old chaos of multiple tables with weird ids?
<vthompson> I assume so... I doubt we fixed playlists there
<jdstrand> ahayzen: http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/ahayzen/
<ahayzen> vthompson, so it is probably something in that horrible conversion going wrong
<ahayzen> jdstrand, thanks
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/12/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
<ahayzen> jdstrand, your second bug 1392028 .. it starts in 3.0-3.3seconds for me
<udsbotu> bug 1392028 in Ubuntu Music App "[remix] slow to launch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392028
<vthompson> ahayzen, I just tested with a playlist of 1 song and it worked. I'll test again with a lot more
<jdstrand> ahayzen: yeah, it comes up fast, but isn't responsive for a long time
<ahayzen> interesting
<jdstrand> ie, it sits there on Albums for a long time
<jdstrand> when it comes up, I don't have any thumbnails
<ahayzen> hmmm what is going on in the logs at that moment in time
<ahayzen> if you do a $ tail -f
<jdstrand> I have 'Unknown Album' and the artist name, with no thumbnails
<jdstrand> (after it is usable that is)
<ahayzen> eg when it is frozen is it attempting to load the thumbnails or is it pushing the tracks to the queue...it sounds like the former?
<ahayzen> vthompson, ^^ thumbnailer continues to get worse? lol
<jdstrand> ahayzen: it looks like it dumps everything into the log
<ahayzen> jdstrand, is that the full log you have put in the archive?
<jdstrand> eg:
<jdstrand> qml: {"album":"Moving Pictures","art":"image://albumart/artist=Rush&album=Moving%20Pictures","author":"Rush","filename":"/home/phablet/Music/rush/rush - moving pictures - 01 - tom sawyer.ogg","title":"Tom Sawyer"}
<jdstrand> qml: {"album":"Diary Of A Madman","art":"image://thumbnailer/file:///home/phablet/Music/Ozzy%20Osbourne/Diary%20Of%20A%20Madman/Tonight.mp3","author":"Ozzy Osbourne","filename":"/home/phablet/Music/Ozzy Osbourne/Diary Of A Madman/Tonight.mp3","title":"Tonight"}
<jdstrand> ahayzen: re archive> yes
<ahayzen> jdstrand, yeah they are as it is pushing to the queue in the background thread
<vthompson> jdstrand, ahayzen when thumbnailer can't find a proper thumbnail it seems to take a long time... maybe since jdstrand has so much music with no metadata it just takes for ever?
<ahayzen> jdstrand, vthompson, i see this in the logs... music-app.qml:652: TypeError: Cannot read property 'filename' of undefined
<vthompson> yea, which has been fixed in the recent click
<ahayzen> jdstrand, and i don't spot any playlist conversion output in the console
 * jdstrand put the click he used in that same dir as the tarball
<ahayzen> oh 726!
<ahayzen> jdstrand, there is a newer one!
 * jdstrand would be happy to test
<ahayzen> jdstrand, sorry you should have tried this one http://people.canonical.com/~alan/music_remix/20141112/trunk/
<ahayzen> jdstrand, 736 vs 726 lol
<jdstrand> I thought that is what I grabbed...
<vthompson> ahayzen, I just don't think the playlist conversion would be broken in an older click
 * jdstrand tries again
<vthompson> jdstrand, if you reopen the app and and go to Playlists does it still say 369 songs?
<ahayzen> vthompson, yeah same i think it isn't displaying the data correctly most likely those bugs we have fixed?
<vthompson> If so it probably isn't conversion that's the issue
<vthompson> ahayzen, I hope so.
<ahayzen> vthompson, same
<jdstrand> in 726, I tried the playlist multiple times. it reports as 369 until I tap on it, and it says 0
<jdstrand> I tried to let it sit there on the '0 songs' screen for a while, but it didn't right itself
<ahayzen> magic!
<vthompson> jdstrand, yea, that must be some display issue with 726 being broken
<ahayzen> you can see if definitely has 369...
<ahayzen> qml: called LibraryListModel::filterPlaylist()
<ahayzen> qml: {"count":369,"name":"Car"}
<vthompson> I'll test 726 on my device and see if playlists are broken
<ahayzen> but yeah try the latest click please :)
<jdstrand> ahayzen: right, it is after that that I tap on the 'Car' playlist and shown the screen to 'Play all'. it is that one that is 0
<jdstrand> let me try 736
<ahayzen> at least that suggests the data is still there...just not being displayed correctly
<jdstrand> ok, 736 isn't slow to load. I'll update the bug
<vthompson> jdstrand, ahayzen and 726 is REALLY slow to load the initial Albums tab
<jdstrand> 736 still says 0 songs
<ahayzen> vthompson, yeah do you remember it before the new column flow :)
<ahayzen> jdstrand, we rewrote that whole view so it should be much faster
<jdstrand> ok, 1392028 closed
<ahayzen> jdstrand, sweet, now onto your playlist issue
<ahayzen> vthompson, have you got the archive of the log and db we should be able to have a look inside the db right?
<vthompson> jdstrand, does the playlist work in 736?
<jdstrand> vthompson: no
<jdstrand> same behavior as with 726
<jdstrand> how can REM not have a thumbnail? :P
<jdstrand> </rhetorical>
<ahayzen> jdstrand, i know right...maybe try R.E.M. ?
<vthompson> jdstrand, they have a new song called "Losing my Thumbnail"
<jdstrand> it actually is R.E.M. :P
<jdstrand> haha
<ahayzen> jdstrand, note R.E.M. does have art in the artists tab for me ;)
<jdstrand> wow, 736 is nice and smooth
<jdstrand> great work :)
<ahayzen> thanks :)
<ahayzen> vthompson, why don't we just use jdstrand 's database in place of ours and see whats going on? ... would that work?
<vthompson> ahayzen, we should force users to use the old app before they use the new one so they appreciate it more
<ahayzen> vthompson, +1
<vthompson> ahayzen, ah that should/could work
<ahayzen> vthompson, only thing i can think of is the restoring of the queue may foobar but we could comment that out
<jdstrand> it is fun seeing some of the artist art
<jdstrand> I had no idea what some of them looked like :P
<ahayzen> vthompson, which SQLite viewer do you usually use?
<jdstrand> is there anything beyond sqlite3? :P
<vthompson> ahayzen, it's called sqlitebrowser, quite nice
<ahayzen> vthompson, cool :) yeah i just saw that in the app scope
 * ahayzen installs
<vthompson> ahayzen, jdstrand OK, I copied jdstrand's database and I get the same issue with the playlist
<ahayzen> jdstrand, good news is your data is still there :)
<jdstrand> \o/
<ahayzen> vthompson, the database looks good right? the one starting "d332"?
<vthompson> yea, db seems OK
<ahayzen> vthompson, jdstrand yeah i get the same this is strange
<ahayzen> vthompson, the filterPlaylistTracks() is coming back empty
<ahayzen> vthompson, oh damn,... this will be failing for us? musicStore.lookup(dbItem.filename).art
<ahayzen> vthompson, L218 in playlists.js and then being caught and returning [] ?
<vthompson> ahayzen, jdstrand ah ha! If a song in the playlist no longer exits that is what you get
<ahayzen> vthompson, omg!
<ahayzen> vthompson, so we need to jump over that one song and not return totally false
<ahayzen> vthompson, this goes back to wanting a signal from ms2 to tell us the tracks that have been removed
<ahayzen> (as then we could tidy things up)
<vthompson> ahayzen, yea, skipping over would be sufficient, but maybe we should clean up and remove it from the list
<jdstrand> ah, interesting
<ahayzen> yeah
<jdstrand> oh, that probably happened when I was doing testing for an apparmor update
<jdstrand> let me guess-- lost tribe? paramore?
<ahayzen> jdstrand, vthompson guess we can update the bug description title now
<ahayzen> jdstrand, paramore \o/
<jdstrand> yeppers
<jdstrand> cool, that was fast
<jdstrand> nice :)
<ahayzen> jdstrand, ok we'll probably have a fix tonight
<jdstrand> great! :)
<ahayzen> vthompson, shall i work on ^^ fix or do you want to?
<ahayzen> vthompson, you take the autopilot issue i'll take the playlists
 * ahayzen runs quickly away laughing
<vthompson> ahayzen, get back here! Ha
<ahayzen> vthompson, i've already branched too late !
<vthompson> ahayzen, you can take the playlist one. I think balloons  might be doing the AP one. I need to run some errands shortly
<ahayzen> vthompson, do we want to remove the erroneous tracks from the playlist or leave them?
<vthompson> ahayzen, I think either is a decent solution. If you liked the song enough to add it to a playlist... maybe you'll add the song back to the device again?
<ahayzen> yeah it would be quickest just to skip over it
<vthompson> ... but maybe not in the same location
<ahayzen> ...and the count is then incorrect
<vthompson> yea, count would be wrong. Let's remove it from the list
<ahayzen> \o/
<ahayzen> vthompson, ok so, as i would expect, it is trying to remove every track from the playlist (as none of them are on my device), but i can see the performance needs improving a little
#ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 2014-11-13
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu UI Toolkit roadmap: What's new and what's planned? | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22357/ubuntu-qml-components-whats-new-whats-planned-and-what-else-do-you-want-to-know/
<popey> t1mp: you're all set for this session?
<t1mp> can people see us?
<mhall119> says "starting soon"
<mhall119> if you just started the broadcast, it takes a minute or two for the stream to catch up
<t1mp> ok
<mhall119> ok, video is streaming now \o/
<mhall119> zsombi: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?
<t1mp> if you want to ask a question, please prefix it with QUESTION: (caps) so it is easier for us to see it
<mhall119> QUESTION: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?
 * mhall119 should know better
<mhall119> \o/
<t1mp> :)
<SidPayton> The Video is not working on my Ubuntu. Neither on Firefox nor Chrome. Thought maybe someone is having the same problems
<cheesehead> Video working great here
<SidPayton> It's working on my Android device :(
<nik90> QUESTION: Is there a plan to include helper test functions to perform actions like clicking header buttons (interacting with other sdk components etc) in Ubuntu.Test?
<nik90> t1mp, zsombi: Well I was recommended by other unity8 developers to use QML test suites for the clock app. As such I have started created helper functions for these.
<anatoli> wasn't there a distinction saying what to do with which kind of tests? ie. unit tests for API, AP for UX
<nik90> QUESTION: Would the header and pagestack animation make its way into rtm? Or are we talking about the future vivid cycle?
 * balloons watching and reading scrollback on test helpers
<mhall119> zsombi: the camera is stuck on you, click your thumbnail to un-highlight yourself and let us see t1mp
<t1mp> mhall119: I should have done that, I'll try not to forget
<t1mp> my mistake
<mauric> Q: WHAT ABOUT the HUB ?
<mhall119> it was all t1mp's fault :)
<mhall119> mauric: you mean HUD?
<mauric> yes
<mhall119> mauric: they need design to figure out how it's going to be presented first, then they'll knowif the API needs to change or not
<mhall119> oh, easy theme overrides would be awesome!
<mhall119> zsombi: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?
<mhall119> QUESTION: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?
<t1mp> mauric: sorry for skipping your question. I agree with mhall119 on the answer
<mhall119> t1mp: I tried to theme the Tabbar once, and I ended up having to duplicate a lot of components to get to it
<mhall119> I didn't have to duplicate theme components, I had to duplicate things like Tabs, because otherwise you can't set properties on tabbar because you don't have access to that component from within your app
<anatoli> mhall119: what about bindings?
<mhall119> anatoli: what about them?
<anatoli> mhall119: if you need to set properties on read-only components
<t1mp> we almost covered everything we wanted to cover
<t1mp> so if you have more questions, shoot!
<mhall119> anatoli: it's not that it was read-only, it's that it wasn't exposed, it was part of the inner workings of Tabs that i wasn't supposed to touch, but there was no other way to change it's style
<anatoli> 6 minutes to prepare tea, 3-2-1 go :-P
<mhall119> thanks zsombi, t1mp
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu UI toolkit questions and feedback | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22358/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-feedback/
<aquarius> hey zsombi
<aquarius> watching the video stream :)
<anatoli> big stuart is watching you :-P
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> t1mp, should I write questions/ideas now, or would you rather I waited until zsombor has explained list items?
<t1mp> aquarius: now is good
<aquarius> ok, a few things
<t1mp> aquarius: prefix with QUESTION so I find it easier if I have to scroll back later
<aquarius> QUESTION: Page's "magic" handling of its child element is still really confusing; if I have one child element and it's a Flickable then everything works as expected, but what if I have two child elements? What if I have a Column which contains a button and then a ListView? It would be nice to explain the rules in detail and show how to do some common things.
<aquarius> QUESTION: it would be lovely to see the upcoming roadmap as a list of things which are planned along with big green tick marks for whether they're done or not. This would help me to know that I shouldn't try using a component because you folks are going to completely change it a month from now :)
<nik90> zsombi: stop teasing us with those awesome listitems and release them already :P
<aquarius> :)
 * nik90 is impatient
<aquarius> stop teasing us and *write the documentation and get it published* and *then* release them. :) I think that no SDK components should count as released until the docs are also published :)
<bzoltan> aquarius: do not be worried. All released APIs are stable and will stay stable forever.
<aquarius> bzoltan, what, like the toolbar? that works but is deprecated, as an example :)
<anatoli> aquarius: and for good reason. the ux is really badâ¦
<aquarius> yeah -- I am not sure if things like UbuntuListView are just a fun hack or whether I should be using it because ordinary ListViews are Not The Way To Go. That sort of thing.
<anatoli> *nod* I can see how it can be confusing unless you know some internals already
<anatoli> (for the record, it's not a fun hack, but it's there because ListView cannot easily be extended short of extending/ patching Qt)
<aquarius> anatoli, it is a bad UX, I agree. But http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.ToolbarItems/ should say "DO NOT USE THIS, USE TOOLS IN THE HEADER" in massive red writing at the top, and it doesn't. It even links to design guidelines!
<aquarius> zsombi, agreed about theming (which is why I'm not using it). I do *not* agree about documentation. Writing docs ought to be, I think, as important as tests, for the SDK, because the SDK's not useful to app devs like me unless it's documented :-)
<aquarius> anyway, let someone else ask questions :)
<nik90> QUESTION: (hoping this wasn't asked earlier) What's the ETA for theming documentation? I really would like to change the checkbox's color etc etc ...and don't want to create components for scratch just to do that.
<nik90> I sort of just jumped into this session few minutes back, so hoping I am not just repeating what others asked already
<aquarius> t1mp, let me explain a worked example so you folks can suggest to me how I should build it. Imagine that I have a list (let's say, a list of people). I want to have a textbox at the top which filters the list, so when you type into the textbox the listview contents change to only those which match the text. If this were a non-Ubuntu app, then I'd anchor the textbox to the top of the page, and anchor the li
<aquarius> stview to the bottom of the textbox and the bottom of the page. But what should I do in an Ubuntu app, which has its magical header?
<akiva-thinkpad> hey all
<nik90> hey akiva-thinkpad
<aquarius> t1mp, at the moment I have a button in the header which shows the text box *in the header*, which works, but that feels like a hack :)
<akiva-thinkpad> nik90, is there a link to the hangout? Or this one private?
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: not sure, I just joined a few minutes ago
<akiva-thinkpad> same
 * akiva-thinkpad had to do another session
<t1mp> do you guys want to join the hangout to ask questions?
<zbenjamin> zsombi: how about the ColumnLayout with fillHeight: true
<akiva-thinkpad> t1mp, yes
<akiva-thinkpad> I don't care though
<akiva-thinkpad> if they want questions here; I'm cool with that
<bzoltan> aquarius: changes like the toolbar are something what initiated from outside of our team.
<t1mp> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdcgbUk_7a5upwBXy3vbPs0-naVKCG7ia1nZpxMo9GrshU1-g?authuser=0&hl=en
<t1mp> ^ you can join the hangout here
<akiva-thinkpad> erm?
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: ?
<akiva-thinkpad> this doesnt seem like the hangout?
 * akiva-thinkpad wonders if I'm in the wrong place
<anatoli> aquarius: how do you like this one? http://geraldfield.org/deprecatedToolbarItems.png
<t1mp> akiva-thinkpad: we can see you
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: we can see you lol
<anatoli> no, it's a branch I just made :-)
<t1mp> anatoli: ahhh...
<t1mp> sorry I thought it was on the webpage like that now
<akiva-thinkpad> ahhhh
<t1mp> ok, it should be the way anatoli made it :)
<nik90> anatoli: it should be in red :P
<aquarius> I'd put it in a coloured box -- seriously, it is hard to over-stress this :)
<t1mp> anatoli: feel free to create a merge request from that branch :) propose for merging into lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging
<akiva-thinkpad> okay I see it
<akiva-thinkpad> wierd
<anatoli> t1mp: there you go https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/deprecatedToolbarItems/+merge/241700
<t1mp> anatoli: you are christian?
<aquarius> anatoli, http://screencloud.net/v/9hiq ? :)
<anatoli> t1mp: I can't use the same name in kiwi :-)
<t1mp> kiwi?
<t1mp> anatoli: happroved
<aquarius> zbenjamin, COlumnLayout doesn't have a fillHeight property?
<zbenjamin> aquarius: it has a attachable property Layout.fillHeight
<anatoli> aquarius: not doable. if you look at the merge request you'll see we only have this rtf-ish markup
<zbenjamin> aquarius: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qml-qtquick-layouts-layout.html#fillHeight-prop
<anatoli> aquarius: unless you can find some markup that wouldâ¦ but I don't believe that's possible
<aquarius> anatoli, bah, that sucks :)
 * anatoli wonders if akiva lives on the sun
<aquarius> opacity should be good performance? the gpu can handle it directly as a layer. If it's not good performance then the Qt people need a poke :)
<akiva-thinkpad> cool beans
<aquarius> thank you zsombi t1mp zbenjamin anatoli
<akiva-thinkpad> ;_;
<anatoli> \o/
<zsombi> aquarius: any time dude :)
<anatoli> thank you akiva-thinkpad :-D
<nik90> thxn for the session
<nik90> bye
<akiva-thinkpad> :D
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | DocViewer Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22348/docviewer-planning/
<aquarius> I would very much like to see a trivial example of a QML Ubuntu app which has an always-on-screen textbox at the top and a listview which scrolls, in a Page. :)
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> ^^ docviewer app session hangout url
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-docviewer-planning
<popey> sverzegnassi & akiva-thinkpad ^
<popey> everyone welcome, of course :D
<sverzegnassi> popey: not authorized to open
<popey> oh.. odd
<popey> just invited you
<sverzegnassi> not working
<akiva-thinkpad> scheduling conflict
<popey> sverzegnassi: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en ?
<popey> works for rschroll ...
<popey> ok akiva-thinkpad
<popey> sverzegnassi: you signed into evil google?
<popey> sverzegnassi: oh, you talking about the hangout or the etherpad?
<sverzegnassi> installing the hangout package
<popey> \o/
<popey> you need to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/ to use etherpad
<popey> sorry, I'm being dumb â»
<sverzegnassi> Your membership is awaiting approval from one of this team's administrators.
<popey> sverzegnassi: have pinged someone to get approved
<sverzegnassi> popey: laptop crashed...
<popey> â»
<popey> aw â¹
<sverzegnassi_> popey: can you resend the link ?
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> sverzegnassi_: ^
<sverzegnassi> (witching pc)
<swaveck> ppt
<popey> https://www.calligra.org/
<sverzegnassi_> https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/calligra
<popey> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-office
<rschroll> I'
<rschroll> I've written a little PDF viewer based on JS and HTML, withrendering in Poppler
<rschroll> Dunno if it's relevant, but I'm happy to share
<rschroll> it's in Closurescrpt, though. (Sorry)
<rschroll> https://github.com/rschroll/litex/blob/master/src/lt/plugins/litex-viewer.cljs
<rschroll> plugin for LightTable
<rschroll> (IDE)
<rschroll> The other thing -- any questions about how I handled things for epubs, I'm happy to answer
<popey> \o/
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Roundtable: Creating a Theming Standard for QML | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22319/roundtable-creating-a-theming-standard-for-qml/
<akiva-thinkpad> hey all
<akiva-thinkpad> !ping
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: hey
<akiva-thinkpad> nik90, hey
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: do you need help setting up the hangout?
<akiva-thinkpad> yah,
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: can you create a hangout on air and invite me to it?
<akiva-thinkpad> sure
<akiva-thinkpad> nik90,
<akiva-thinkpad> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvsk6sdm7vbv7jcskfdtzngz2ea?hl=en-GB
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
<akiva-thinkpad> were on air
<DanChapman> o/
<Letozaf_> yeah I can see and hear you
<nik90> awesome
<nik90> feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
<jdstrand> yes!
<jdstrand> I want to be able to theme :)
<jdstrand> I'd like to be able to do more than choose light and dark themes. I'd like to in my app be able to set colors for the different components
<jdstrand> ah, downloadable themes-- I'm less interested in that
<jdstrand> fyi, saville allows changing the theme via /custom, so the sdk is capable of doing it at some level
<nik90> jdstrand: I have seen you trying to theme your application. Do you want to join the discussion?
<jdstrand> well, really all I need are docs and there is a bug for that. I'll hop on if there is something I can contribute
<ahayzen> blue!
<ahayzen> colours here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.UbuntuColors/
<nik90> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-qt.html
<gcollura> nik90, there's very little documentation about android theming (cyanogen theming engine), but almost everything is customizable, you can even override an app styling
<nik90> gcollura: can you join the hangout?
<nik90> feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
<gcollura> nik90, I can't right now sorry :/
<nik90> gcollura: ah no worries, but good to know that android allows you to override pretty much anything
<gcollura> nik90, one thing, if you're curious, you can download a theme apk from google play, unzip it and see how themes are defined :)
<nik90> gcollura: ah interesting..I will check it out
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Writing unit tests for qml applications | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22396/writing-unit-tests-for-qml-applications/
<akiva-thinkpad> thanks
<dobey> is the stream not up yet?
<nik90> we just got on air
<alecu> hello!
<nik90> hello :)
 * balloons waves to everyone
 * dkessel waves back while arguing with drupal
<balloons> I hope you can see the code well enough
<dkessel> nope
<dkessel> ah. getting better.
<dobey> i think youtube is lying about "720p"
<dobey> either that or it really sucks at scaling up to 4K
<dobey> blocks of a/v from nik90 seem to get dropped occasionally
<dobey> again
<alecu> QUESTION: what's your feeling regarding the reliability (or inversely, the breakability) of QML tests vs autopilot tests?
<dkessel> +1 for TDD
<dobey> it's the difference between unit tests and integration tests
<dobey> qmltestrunner is for unit tests, and autopilot is for end-to-end integration tests
<dobey> (and it's al-le-coo, not alex ;)
<balloons> alecu, ohh sorry mate!
<alecu> no prob :-)
<dobey> even for something like calculator, you want an autopilot test to catch breakage for things like "user tapped on number 9, but app didn't see it"
<mzanetti> dobey: you can do that perfectly fine with qmltestrunner
<mzanetti> he'll show it now
<balloons> I would agree qmltestrunner works, but the idea of modeling the user would push me towards running it with autopilot
<balloons> still, I wouldn't argue against any developer with a test suite :-
<balloons> for the calc, I would probably have some label interactions, swiping, and history
<balloons> in autopilot tests that is
<balloons> everything else I would probably leave in qml at a lower level
<dobey> wlel, i think the qml tests when you click a button in the test, it just does clicked() directly, but i think autopilot doing a click on a button, goes through the system input layer; whilch is what i meant
<dobey> i could be wrong, but i thought that's how autopilot worked
<mzanetti> dobey: is testing the system input layer in the scope of the clock app?
<mzanetti> or should there be a separate test suite for that?
 * DanChapman thinks that's pretty cool to watch!
<balloons> there is an argument to be made for using OSK to input as well
<dobey> mzanetti: not necessarily, but the calculator should provide the autopilot test that would be run by the systemwide smoke test suite
<mzanetti> yeah. I think there should be an AP test suite for the OSK
<mzanetti> but I don't think the clock app should fail because of a bug in the OSK
<dobey> ie, the app should own the tets that drive the app
<mzanetti> which is what happens with AP
<alecu> nik90: great work on the testing of the clock app; surely it must be one of the better tested parts of our system.
<dobey> nik90: it's probably failing due to mir
<nik90> alecu: thnx :)
<alecu> balloons: nik90: mzanetti: thanks a lot for the session, it was very useful.
<dobey> nik90: you can probably install xvfb on a phone and run under xvfb with no problem
<balloons> oO dobey thinking outside the box
<nik90> dobey: ah interesting..I didn't think of that ..I can give it a shot
<mzanetti> alecu: there's an unlimited amount of qmltests in unity8, in case you need more examples
<alecu> mzanetti: good to know, thanks.
<dobey> mzanetti: indeed. i wrote some of those too :)
<nik90> alecu: Unity 8 is a treasure house for qml test cases. I would highly recommend it too.
<nik90> I learnt a lot looking at them
<mzanetti> nik90: ah... we forgot to mention that you can run qmltests in qmlscene
<mzanetti> nik90: so you can manually execute the test plan in order to debug it
<dobey> nik90: remember that the phone and emulator are confined, so if you want to run qmltestrunner and have it open up a connection to Mir with UI, it will probably fail, for the same reason you can't just run qmlscene for an app on the console over ssh
<nik90> mzanetti: but only if you comment out the test case code?
<mzanetti> nik90: nope
<mzanetti> nik90: every unity8 test case can be run with "make testSomething" but also with "make trySomething" in order to open it up in qmlscene
<mzanetti> dobey: it works if you pass --desktop_file_hint=/some/file.desktop to qmltestrunner
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
<dobey> nik90: if the unit tests are included in the click package, you can maybe provide a secondary .desktop file and "app" in the manifest, which is to run the qmltestrunner tests, have it be NoDisplay=true, and do ubuntu-app-launch to run that "app"
<nik90> oooh cool
<nik90> dobey: ah that's probably it failed for me when trying on the phone..because of the confinement
<mzanetti> note that the .desktop file needs to be located /usr/share/applications/ at the moment... still haven't managed to get greyback to fix that
<dobey> yep
<mzanetti> and you can also run qmlscene from command line by passing --desktop_file_hint
<mzanetti> it'll run unconfined though...
 * balloons encourages nik90 to scoop up all these nuggets
<balloons> I didn't know those desktop file tricks.. never thought about doing that
<nik90> balloons: I am copying these into a pad
<mzanetti> the --desktop_file_hint is basically the replacement for bamf
<balloons> RIP bamf <3
<mzanetti> not sure if it'll stay forever, or if we come up with something more clever, but for now (and the foreseeable future) it should work fine
<dobey> an xvfb-but-mir would be nice to have
<mzanetti> maybe exporting QPA_PLATFORM=minimal could help with that
<mzanetti> for qt apps
<dobey> so "mirvfb-run foo"
<mzanetti> ymmv with that though
<dobey> a virtual mir framebuffer would be nice for many other reasons too, though
<dobey> such as to be able to run more complete tests in better confinement
<dobey> not just for qml, but to run autopilot and other tests confined to that vfb, and have it be mir instead of x
<balloons> dobey, that's a pipe dream to run outside of unity for instance, a seperate confined env
<dobey> yeah. right now, the only way to do it, is the emulator
<mzanetti> not so sure about that... I guess if you stop the session load the mirserver qpa (instead of the client qpa) it should work just fine
<mzanetti> obviously you'll lose unity8's portion of the confinement
<nik90> dobey: In case you are interested in seeing the ouput of what I got the last time I tried running qmltestrunner on the phone, http://askubuntu.com/questions/515153/how-does-one-run-qml-tests-on-a-ubuntu-touch-phone
<nik90> this time around I will try your approach of having a dedicated desktop file just to run qmltestrunner.
<nik90> I am too sure about what needs to be changed in the manifest file. But I can look into this over the weekend and try out some stuff.
<dobey> nik90: yeah, i think that's due to the wrapper that parses arguments like --desktop_file_hint on the phone
<dobey> nik90: adding the qmltestrunner arguments after a "--" /might/ help, but not sure
<nik90> I will give it a try later
#ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 2014-11-14
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/14/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Testing Scopes | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22339/testing-scopes/
<elopio> hello.
<dobey> herro?
<balloons> howdy.. sorry, hangout giving us grief, need to make a new one
<balloons> alecu, elopio seems to be working now in the same hangout :-)
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcnybsqTdWWFHnASp4O0c5IWrxnbrexBgoJ_s87w0ZUK8bewQ?authuser=0&hl=en
<balloons> I haz da button!
<balloons> reload the page and we should be live in a moment
<dkessel> yes you are
<elopio> here is an introduction to GTest by mandel - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/158tvIlZFuFU2ltmnPmOyH3QYKjZzydolky0R8iBiO9s/edit#slide=id.p
<elopio> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vVnnphFGYY
<elopio> and scope tests by alecu's team here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/files/head:/scope/tests/
<alecu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/unity-scope-click
<elopio> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/files/head:/autopilot/unityclickscope/
<alecu> btw, there are more click scope test cases here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/files/head:/libclickscope/tests/
<t1mp> hello everyone
<t1mp> next up is the design session
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | App design | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22359/app-design/
<CheeseBurg> Um where is the video?
<akiva-thinkpad> hey all
<dobey> missing, apparently
<t1mp> mhall119: hello
<t1mp> mhall119: I think I configured everything correct, but the video is not appearing
<CheeseBurg> Good so I am not the only one
<mhall119> t1mp: let me check
<gventuri> hi everybody
<mzanetti> now you're live :)
<mhall119> t1mp: you just had them in the wrong field, i've fixed it, everybody refresh the page
<mzanetti> now it does
<t1mp> mhall119: ok thank you
<dobey> there it is
<CheeseBurg> Ok I can see the video now
<akiva-thinkpad> I can see it
<akiva-thinkpad> hello!
<t1mp> if you have questions, prefix them here with QUESTION: so I can easily pick them in the irc channel
<CheeseBurg> Can they full screen this powerpoint?
<dobey> QUESTION: Can you full screen the presetnation?
<t1mp> done :)
<aquarius> QUESTION: are you basically expecting that most apps will be grey in colour?
<swordfish90> Yes guys, I can see you...
<aquarius> QUESTION: the Ubuntu browser icon is a compass, which I imagine was chosen because that's what iPhone uses for Safari. In general would you recommend that Ubuntu app designers use icons from other platforms rather than trying to define a new brand?
<t1mp> you don't have to save your questions in the end, especially if you have a question about the currently discussed section
<mzanetti> QUESTION: some while back the design team did a so called "App Clinic" where they've been looking at apps and gave feedback. I found that quite useful. Are you considering bringing that back?
<aquarius> +1 mzanetti :)
<nik90> +1
<dobey> aquarius: i'd say you should use the same basic icon for your app, on all the platforms you ship it on :)
<dobey> aquarius: but should fit apprproiately on each platform
<mzanetti> true. gventuri is very reachable. What I meant is that I liked watching the video of the tipps you gave to other people when I had some lazy time
<mzanetti> TV ! :)
 * mzanetti wants a portable Ubuntu TV on his phone :)
<CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Have convergence guildlines being worked on?
<dobey> because compiling libreoffice on a nexus4 is not really feasible :)
<dobey> i don't. i expect TVs to have interaction by voice and hand waving
<CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Are these design guidelines just for phone just now or are they for tablet too?
<t1mp> dobey: who says a phone cannot do that? :)
<dobey> LG is already shipping TVs that work that way, running WebOS :)
<stephwilson> CheeseBurg: Just phone :)
<dobey> t1mp: sure, you can wave at your phone to control your tv if you want :)
<CheeseBurg> stephwilson: That's weird, isnt a tablet coming out soon with Ubuntu?
<dobey> no
<dobey> there are two nexus tablets as reference platforms, but the OS and apps are still primarily developed for phones at the moment
<t1mp> CheeseBurg: eventually we want ubuntu on everything :) but right now we are making the phone as good as possible
<CheeseBurg> t1mp: Makes sense. I just thought there was focus on the tablet this cycle too.
<mzanetti> QUESTION: I'm having troubles with using the Header in the reminders app, because on phone it's just one page, on tablet it's side by side. and each side would need it's own header. Any advice there?
<mzanetti> it's exactly like the last example with phone & tablet in the slides currently visible
<CheeseBurg> I know there is limited manpower at Canonical, especially for the design team, but it seems like we have been just focusing on phone design for a long time. It's not really an issue but I am a little concerned with the pace.
<CheeseBurg> Then again this pace could be totally normal.
<dobey> we're trying to bring a phone to market
<dobey> our pace is actually quite fast, as far as bringing a phone OS to market, is concerned
<CheeseBurg> dobey: It probably is. Just feels slow because this whole process is new to me (and probably others).
<stephwilson> Header blog : http://design.canonical.com/2014/03/new-apps-header/
<akiva-thinkpad> Is the header now transparent?
<mzanetti> my internet connection died... need to catch up with the 3 minutes , sorry :/
<dobey> CheeseBurg: it's new to everyone :)
<dobey> CheeseBurg: it might seem slow if you're used to the normal 6 months stable releases of ubuntu
<CheeseBurg> Very true
<akiva-thinkpad> QUESTION: On Header; If all I want on my app is to have a Title with a custom component, and a right button representing Tabs; can this new design accomodate this flexibility better in the past?
<akiva-thinkpad> Problem before was that it forced me to have 3 buttons and one title.
<akiva-thinkpad> And I had to find coding workarounds which were ugly
<akiva-thinkpad> than in the past
<akiva-thinkpad> *
<akiva-thinkpad> Can I contact you later on; this was actually for the filemanager app.
<akiva-thinkpad> yah
<akiva-thinkpad> yah the overflow is what I want.
<akiva-thinkpad> and just the title.
<akiva-thinkpad> mmmmmm no... you need to see the implementation.
<stephwilson> If anyone wants to see the guidelines, drop me your email here and I can send it. Would be brilliant to have all your feedback
<dobey> why do you want that interaction model anyway?
<akiva-thinkpad> meh
<t1mp> almost out of time, so if you have more questions, be fast
<akiva-thinkpad> What I want is to easily disable the left button
<t1mp> akiva-thinkpad: on the left side of the header? That's possible, I made a change for that recently
<t1mp> akiva-thinkpad: I can look up the details for you after the session
<mzanetti> thanks guys! designers interacting with app devs is much appreciated!
<akiva-thinkpad> t1mp, okay thanks
<akiva-thinkpad> t1mp, if you saw what I was trying to do, it would make a bit of sense. try "bzr branch ubuntu-filemanager-app+"
<dkessel> read "something for a rainy day" and smiles
<akiva-thinkpad> errm
<akiva-thinkpad> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-filemanager-app+
<akiva-thinkpad> lol
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Dekko Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22350/dekko-planning/
<nik90> thnx for the session guys
<akiva-thinkpad> yah thanks it was interesting
<gventuri> nik90: akiva-thinkpad: it was our pleasure
<stephwilson> Thanks everyone!
<nik90> t1mp: lol, you should register your nick so you don't lose this one as well :D
<t1mp> nik90: I have it registered :)
<gventuri> t1mp: how do you register a nick?
<mzanetti> gventuri: http://wiki.foonetic.net/wiki/Nickserv_Commands
<gventuri> mzanetti: thanks
<nik90> gventuri: https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#registering
<balloons> ^^ good idea
<nik90> damn late by few seconds
<balloons> don't worry when you forget your password the friendly freenode staff will help you reset it, so long as you have email access
<popey> the dekko session is about to start
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfXUqoofx4fv7LPUnC-CmS8BQbkQeit1YYvIFW0ZWPKH7K04Q?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> hi boren
<popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfXUqoofx4fv7LPUnC-CmS8BQbkQeit1YYvIFW0ZWPKH7K04Q?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> thats the hangout url
 * balloons stares at the standby screen
<popey> DanChapman: joining?
<boren> Setting up the computer
<popey> ok
<balloons> I see you!
<DanChapman> dam
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-dekko-planning
<CheeseBurg> Is there a reason why you can the Trojita guys split ways? Or is that a sensitive topic?
<nik90> Letozaf_: hey
<DanChapman> o/ Letozaf_
<popey> Letozaf_: you listening in?
<Letozaf_> hi guys :) yes I am listening
<popey> yay
<Letozaf_> o/
<DanChapman> \o/
<balloons> :-p
<popey> balloons: you in another session?
<popey> we need help mocking email server
<balloons> DanChapman, I know you also know how to write them, so don't be afraid ;-)
<Letozaf_> guys if you need autopilot tests I will help :)
<popey> \o/
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/14/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
<cm-t> can't see hangout :/
<seb128> cm-t, it's lunch slot, no session
<cm-t> yes, I said that, and just after I forgot about those UTC/CET convert :)
<cm-t> s/forgot/thought
<jdstrand> popey, balloons: I was listening to the dekko-planning sessions. re armhf packages and the store: fat packages should adress all of that
<jdstrand> popey, balloons: that solves dekko and binary core apps
<popey> jdstrand: yeah, ETA?
<jdstrand> popey, balloons: I was just going to say I don't know the status of that. I think they work at the click install level, but no idea on the SDK
<popey> â»
<jdstrand> ah, you just mentioned that in the session :)
<popey> nik90: ^^
<jdstrand> (fat that is)
<bzoltan> jdstrand: who mentioned the word SDK?
<nik90> popey: yup got it
<popey> bzoltan: â» fat packages, when?
<jdstrand> you will want to confirm fat packages with click support
<bzoltan> popey: not very soon
<jdstrand> bzoltan: me? :)
<bzoltan> jdstrand:  :) yeps.. i have a highlight for that
<jdstrand> bzoltan: I don't know how to create fat packages. I don't know how well supported they are now at the low level, and I don't know your plans :)
 * popey has a highlight for marmite which triggers surprisingly often
<jdstrand> I do know that solves testing core apps and dekko on emulator and desktop
<bzoltan> popey: jdstrand: nik90: creating fat packages is not a big deal. All it requires to run all the build configs for s project what th emanifest file defines . It requires some QtC changes. It is on the backlogs right after the qmake support, what is due in 1-2 weeks
<nik90> popey: you will be surprised how many times I get from the ci-eng channel about the keyword "wake" :D
<nik90> I get pinged*
<jdstrand> bzoltan: oh! neat
<jdstrand> oh and the store. I think the store is all good on that already
<bzoltan> popey: so i would say, that if all goes well it might land this year
<nik90> bzoltan: awesome
<jdstrand> the click-reviewers-tools has some tests for them too
<popey> nik90: heh â»
<jdstrand> here is a fun highlight to have: regression
<jdstrand> the security team uses that and man that comes up often! :P
<bzoltan> nik90: popey: jdstrand: the only trouble is that QtC was not made for running multiply times the same action with different Kit ... so it will be tricky
<jdstrand> (not for us of course ;)
<nik90> :)
<popey> bzoltan: write a shell script, that's what you usually do ã
<bzoltan> popey:  ohh, that one is done :) already ... but I think it should be a real feature
<bzoltan> popey: because obviously it can be done by creating two click packages  and merge them with hackarounds ...
<popey> bzoltan: yeah, that sounds plausible
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu Touch Component Store | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22338/ubuntu-touch-component-store/
<nik90> hangout url: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYedCpSV5UY2DtIy8osrqbq5ew8xKPdqnH4sYs4fCMxoajH-oQ
<aquarius> ohai
<nik90> we will be live in 4 minutes :)
<akiva-thinkpad> hey all
<nik90> akiva-thinkpad: hey, feel free to join the hangouts
<akiva-thinkpad> cool
<akiva-thinkpad> wheres the link?
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYedCpSV5UY2DtIy8osrqbq5ew8xKPdqnH4sYs4fCMxoajH-oQ
<mhall119> akiva-thinkpad: ^^
<akiva-thinkpad> neato
<rschroll> This looks great!  One suggestions -- docs should be generated from comments in the source.
<balloons> I take it I missed the demo?
<sverzegnassi> When the number of components provided by UCS will increase, the component gallery will become an important part of the UCS' UX.
<sverzegnassi> Would be nice to have an integration with QtCreator
<sverzegnassi> balloons: yes
<balloons> it could make it easier for the sdk team to avoid breaking lots of components
<balloons> since they are in one place
<bzoltan> sverzegnassi: balloons: how do you expect that integration?
<balloons> QUESTION: it looks like there is no requirement for licensing for a component? Is that handled in any way?
<balloons> bzoltan, ohh, I was speaking about you not breaking custom components in the store
<balloons> you could pull the branch on updates and have a look and see if they break or not. If it's spread out, it's not really possible to do that
<bzoltan> balloons: OK :)
<sverzegnassi> bzoltan: I'm talking about the components gallery, mainly. A third-party QtCreator plugin would be enough. I think that users should be somehow "forced" to use the gallery for taking a look at the components
<balloons> bzoltan, as far as "integration" perhaps something simple like a link would get you a long way without much work
<bzoltan> sverzegnassi:  the component gallery is available from the QtC, Tools->Ubuntu menu
<sverzegnassi> bzoltan: I mean the Ubuntu Components Store gallery
<dobey> aquarius: haha, yes. speaking from experience, hammering lp == bad :P
<bzoltan> sverzegnassi:  I see +1 on that
<balloons> nik90, yes I see it shows licenses of components; is there a requirement for licenses ? Indeed, so OS license as on lp?
<balloons> well I ask partly because folks who re-use these components need to follow the terms
<balloons> so you need to make sure you provide it in a sane manner so that folks can do the right thing and re-use them
<dobey> please don't shove armhf/i386/etc compiled .so binaries into bzr trees on launchpad
<dobey> aquarius, nik90: cmake solves the test running problem
<balloons> ^^ I agree. Pull them and implement them in a sane way so it becomes part of the build
<dobey> exactly
<dobey> you don't need to copy tests to a different directory from the component, to satisfy where developers put the tests for their app
<balloons> you know the charm store has many of these issues solved / thought about
<dobey> so does click store :P
<balloons> include tests, individual branches, etc
<dobey> just package them as clicks
<balloons> dobey, I was going to tongue-in-cheek reply to your .so binaries with that suggestion
<nik90> ooh yeah the charm store
<balloons> I think it makes sense to "borrow" what they've done
<dobey> aquarius: we're already doing that. have you seen the ubuntu archive?
<balloons> I agree with aquarius about being distributed
<dobey> distributed is great until you care about security and verification
<aquarius> simple example of a server (in django): lp:~sil/+junk/ucs-server
<dobey> "here, download this qml file off plain http"
<balloons> well, by design, this is user contrib
<balloons> you can still vet things later if you wish, even distributed
<mhall119> dobey: ucs could verify the download against a hash from it's own database
 * balloons still waiting for the cpan reference
<balloons> :-(
<dobey> cpan!
<dobey> and then everyone else did it wrong
<rschroll> bravo!
<balloons> aquarius clearly has no charm
<dobey> aquarius: pypy is actually for things from the python standard library being stripped out and backported to python2
<balloons> thanks guys.. cool and exciting ideas
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/14/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
