#edubuntu 2005-10-24
<Topslakr> sry guys, i asked a question earlier and then had to run out. I'm wondering what the terminal clients need to do to link up to the edubuntu terminal server.
<ogra> they need to be able to PXE boot from the net if you dont want manual work involved...
<ogra> and they need to be connected to the edubuntu server network wise indeed
<Topslakr> i belive that they can. I've not tried that yet though, but i'll just need to make them boot pxe and the edubuntu server will handle dhcp ect
<Topslakr> this will involve plenty of work on my end i belive. I'd like them to have web access and i already have another DHCP server on network that i'd like to keep
<ogra> put a second network card in the server ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: is etherboot acceptable? :)
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes links to all necessary instructions to set up the server
<ogra> ajmitch_, via a rom-o-matic image, yes
<Topslakr> I've been thinking about second nic, and it seems like my only option though the logistics are impossible if I want to do this right
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowtoNAT has the necessary info for the setup :)
<Topslakr> heh, I've been reading and reading. I appreciate your time though
<ogra> if you follow the above two docs and come back if you have questions, it should be straight forward to set up :)
<Topslakr> ok, thx
<ogra> yore welcome :)
<ogra> *youre even
<Jeromee> has anyone had any luck with a HP Deskjet 3845 Printer?
<KRomeleoN> hey
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/kidsthememock2.png
<Burgundavia> JaneW, ^
<Burgundavia> from --> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/thos/2005/10/18/0
<ajmitch_> anyone seen jeff elkner around?
* ajmitch_ needs to talk to him about bad wiki info
<Burgundavia> ajmitch_, the packaging stuff?
<ajmitch_> yes
<Burgundavia> ajmitch_, is gournal from here packaged sanely? http://www.adebenham.com/debian/
* ajmitch_ doesn't have time to review it right now
<Burgundavia> ajmitch_, whenever
<Burgundavia> ajmitch_, if I ask you to do something big like that, I don't expect instant answers. I am not paying you for it.
<ajmitch_> I can say straight away that it's not packaged right
<ajmitch_> 0.4.1-1, with a native tar.gz
<mhz> moin, you all
<jsgotangco> moin moin
* mhz wanted to be present at UBZ :(
<mhz> jsgotangco: are we all meeting at 12 UTC?
<jsgotangco> as always
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry, forget it, I just saw 'topic' :)
<mhz> thx anyways
* mhz needs some rest to be back for meeting
<stuporglue> IS there a list somewhere of what software is included in Edubuntu? Or what's on Edubuntu that's not in Ubuntu?
<jane_> hi all
<jsgotangco> hey jane_ 
<jsgotangco> how are you doing?
<jane_> hi jsgotangco, well thanks and you?
* jane_ waits for JaneW to die
<jsgotangco> err just do /msg nickserv ghost nick password
<bimberi> jane_: /msg nickserv ghost JaneW <password> (will, um, kill her :) )
<stuporglue> Hi there
<jsgotangco> jane_, slacking :)
<stuporglue> IS there a list somewhere of what software is included in
<stuporglue>                     Edubuntu? Or what's on Edubuntu that's not in Ubuntu?
<jsgotangco> stuporglue, its basically the same except the default install is different
<jsgotangco> and has the kde-edu apps
<jsgotangco> as well as blender, tuxmath and hrmmm so more kiddie apps by bill kendrick
<bimberi> blender!
<jsgotangco> yes it installls blender by default
<stuporglue> I see -- It might be nice to have a list of the different software it includes on the webpage, I couldn't find one anywhere.
<jsgotangco> i believe its on the wiki?
<bimberi> I haven't used blender for a couple of years but it was a bit of a learning curve :)
<stuporglue> It is possible I could have missed it.
* jsgotangco still doesn't understand 3D
* bimberi doesn't really either
<stuporglue> What's the target age of Edubuntu? 
<jsgotangco> jane_, do we have BOF topics now?
<bimberi> i just got my rudimentary logo done and moved on
<jane_> bimberi: cool thanks
* jsgotangco checks the wiki
<bimberi> jane_: yw :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes, but feel free to add more...https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<jsgotangco> ahhh so there's no sched yet...
<jsgotangco> i could join a bof online if possible...but that means i'll have to wait for someone to save on the wiki
<crimsun> -4h 53m?
<JaneW> I have a query from a Dutch guy asking about Edubuntu traslations... what's the status on the apps do we know how many are supported in other languages?
<jsgotangco> well ok it depends on his locales
<jsgotangco> if theres a ton of apps translated into dutch, it comes in
<JaneW> The Hague, Netherlands...
<jsgotangco> our Edubuntu basically inherits them from Ubuntu itself so...
<jsgotangco> JaneW, basically a lot
<jsgotangco> the major european languages are usually in
<JaneW> yup but that doesn;t cover the app
<JaneW> s
<jsgotangco> it does
<JaneW> really?
<jsgotangco> depends on the app really
<JaneW> ogra previously said only menus and help texts etc were covered
<JaneW> yup
<jsgotangco> well yes
<jsgotangco> obviously
<jsgotangco> its gnome at work
<jsgotangco> if its a non-gnome app, its a different story
<JaneW> makes it hard to respond though
<JaneW> cos either he has to reasearch all of the apps or I do :P
<jsgotangco> well
<jsgotangco> that's a big think
<jsgotangco> thing
<jsgotangco> you'll have to actually check upstream if needed
<JaneW> FUN
<JaneW> (not)
<JaneW> I wish I could clear my inbox at the speed it fills... and most messages need research before answering...
<JaneW> calls for a coffee break I think ;)
<jsgotangco> well you made yourself point of contact :)
<ogra> morning
<jsgotangco> i could answer some, not all, but ogra is mr. edubuntu so...
<ogra> JaneW, there mya be one or two apps that are not translated... but i'd say for duch we got more tan 90% coverage
<ogra> did you guys see the /toipc ... JaneW ?
<ogra> *topic
<jsgotangco> oohhh blog
<JaneW> ogra: great thanks
* JaneW checks topic
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> Edubuntu deprivation = child abuse!
<ogra> :-D
<jsgotangco> check this blog entry of a friend of mine
<jsgotangco> http://clair.pinoyweb.net/?p=450
<JaneW> jsgotangco: very nice :)
<ogra> yep :)
<jsgotangco> well its actually a whole wallpaper from ubuntu-jp
<jsgotangco> ubuntulinux.jp/wiki/ArtWorksFolder/Ubuntu-tan_01-1280x1024.jpg
<jsgotangco> http://ubuntulinux.jp/wiki/ArtWorksFolder/Ubuntu-tan_01-1280x1024.jpg
<JaneW> hmmm... http://www.eschoolnews.com/eti/2005/10/001200.php
<JaneW> "Giving kids Linux in it's present state to teach them about computers is the equivalent of giving kids Maya software to teach them how to draw.
<JaneW> The only place where modern-day Linux would be appropriate would be in grades 6 and up, meaning that the kindergarten-level artwork is vastly inappropriate and the kids (teenagers) will not accept it without some whining."
<JaneW> should we be focussing on 12 and up rather?
<ogra> lets add some theme choice next release
<ogra> hmm, would have been nice from him to tell me he does an interview with me when he asked
<jsgotangco> i thought the aim was to increase the capacity of clients...
<ajmitch_> hi
<ogra> ajmitch_, !
<ajmitch_> morning ogra, JaneW 
<ajmitch_> ogra!!
<JaneW> morning ajmitch_ 
<ogra> ajmitch_, which wiki pages did you mean above ? i'd like to see them
<ajmitch_> just one, I'll see if I can find it
<ajmitch_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources?action=diff
<ajmitch_> I was mainly wanting to ask him where he got that info from
<ogra> DeveloperRessources ????
<ajmitch_> yes
<ogra> ugh
* ajmitch_ was going to revert that change.. and got distracted by work
<ogra> yes, please revert it, its plainly wrong
<ogra> yesterday someone in -motu told me he read about -XubuntuXbuildX on the wiki
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> ogra: looks like a non-jelkner change
<ogra> i hope he just remembered wrongly
* ajmitch_ was sure it was when he looked earlier
<ajmitch_> so, nevermind
<JaneW> here a bit of a freedom rant, http://educationaltechnology.ca/couros/452#comments
<ajmitch_> it's worse - it's a sabdfl change
<ajmitch_> so we'll have to clarify with him why he made that change
* ajmitch_ must have been seriously decaffienated this morning to misalign the lines on RecentChanges
<ogra> . If you are looking for an excuse to try Linux for the classroom, do yourself a favour and download/install Edubuntu. It may be one of the easiest steps into the Linux environment. 
<ogra> i like that :)
<ajmitch_> very nice :)
<ajmitch_> yay for kamion backing me up in -devel
<JaneW> ogra: yeah that's a good one :)
<JaneW> heh " Maybe I could put a powered by Ubuntu button... though this post is powered by Pentium III and Windows 98.... Stupid school. They should use Edubuntu (Google it) instead. They've had a final release, right?"
<JaneW> "Wooo hooo!!!; Edubuntu; Built on top of Ubuntu, this distribution comes packed and configured to be plopped down in a classroom and just simply run. Nice job."
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1.25 Hours
<ogra> i just started to create some schema drawings for ltsp setups.... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_default.png opinions ?
<pere> ogra: it lacks the connection to the internet.
<ogra> pere, as our default setup does ;)
<pere> ogra: and I would add a printer to the setup, to document where the printer should be connected.
<pere> ogra: isn't the default setup expecting two network interfaces?
<ogra> ok, i'll do the 2 NIC variant firs and a third one for printer setup...
<ogra> *first
<ogra> nope
<pere> (nice drawing, btw. :)
<ogra> our default target (low hanging fruit as you said) is a non networked classroom
<pere> but the black screens looks a bit dull. :)
<ogra> hmm, i'll probably brigthen them a bit
<pere> add a screenshot from celestia. :)
<ogra> we have screenshots
<pere> on the drawing, I mean. :)
<ogra> but they wont be on the page i make this pics for...
<pere> to replace the dull black screens. :)
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> i think rather a ubuntu gdm shot ;)
<pere> or something else with nice colors and graphics. :)
<ogra> or simply the logo.. let me experiment a bit...
<ogra> someo asked for some schema pics like http://k12ltsp.org/contents.html has... 
<ogra> but i find these dia diagrams very boring and not really nice for websites...
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 25 mins.
<JaneW> ogra: nice use of 'edubuntu mustard' ;)
<JaneW> hi pere
<JaneW> ogra: I agree with outting something nice on the screen (edubuntu logo?)
<JaneW> putting even
<JaneW> ogra: would the teacher's w/s look diff in any way? (i.e. a fatter client etc?)
<ogra> reload ;)
<ogra> not in this release
<JaneW> COOL
<JaneW> looks great :)
<ogra> i just want two of these pics... the second one for a internet enabled setup and a detailed pic for printer setups...
<JaneW> we must ammend edubuntu girl to have 5-6 skin shades and to randomly display one of them... ;)
<JaneW> ogra: they will help a lot
<ogra> we can add up in the next release
<JaneW> the pics I mean
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i hope so
<mhz> hi there
<JaneW> hi mhz!
<mhz> JaneW: nice to see ya
<JaneW> mhz: ditto
<mhz> thx
<mhz> JaneW: family ok?
<JaneW> mhz: yes thanks, yours?
<mhz> .oO(then JaneW is ok, too)
<JaneW> mhz: we still haven;t spoken about the CD packaging? want to do it now on in meeting in 15 mins?
<JaneW> mhz: indeed :)
<mhz> fine, just the eldest kid a liitle fever, but he'll be alright
<JaneW> shame :/
<mhz> JaneW: "if not now, then When?"
<mhz> hehehe
<JaneW> agreed
<mhz> shoot
<JaneW> I updated our press page http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuPress
<JaneW> can you give me one minute, just need  a glass of water...
<mhz> sure
<JaneW> sorry turned into a cup of coffee, which took longer, back now.
<mhz> hehehe
<JaneW> mhz: ok I like the covers, I presume there's an english version?
<JaneW> mhz: also I think the plainer CD label looks better
<mhz> english/ sure, as soon as i know which is the definitive
<JaneW> mhz: don;t we need some text on the CD label too?
<JaneW> well we only have a defualt english version this time...
<mhz> label/ you mean white bg?
<JaneW> plus since we only have one print run which needs to ship all over the world I reckon we'll have to go with english as the linga franca...?
<mhz> text/ of course, it's just that Tecnocimiento gang decided we firt present the 'art' part and then we modify texts.
<JaneW> I don't follow?
<JaneW> text/ oic, ok np then
<JaneW> label/ what do you mean?
<mhz> label/ what do you mean by 'plainer'?
<JaneW> I saw the one guy said the label must be more colourful, that's not possible we'll only have one colour (the red) and a text colour (white (or black))
<JaneW> mhz: there are 2 pics of CDs, one looks plain the other has the world on it
<mhz> ohhh
<JaneW> we can only print on one side of the CD itself and I prefer the plainer one
<JaneW> plus if you have an ubuntu CD (or that design that was sent) - we need to state Edubuntu Install CD - version 5.10 for intel x86. Legally free to copy, modify and redistribute. Edubuntu is a trademark of Canonical Ltd. www.edubuntu.org.
<mhz> JaneW: pics/ there are 2, indeed. So you like better the plainer. Do you prefer it on white background (bg) or red bg?
<JaneW> does that make sense?
<mhz> yes
<JaneW> I like the red CD, it's nice and bold and fits well with our theme
<mhz> ok, red it is, then
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 min.
<mhz> ok, we can finish later
<JaneW> sure we can talk in the meeting too
<JaneW> it's relevant
<mhz> JaneW: cd slips/ any other desing you'd like to see there?
<JaneW> I like the design, I am just not sure if it matches perfectly with our orange and red theme...
<JaneW> but I am happy to go with the majority vote.
<JaneW> there's nothing I don't like about it, I am just not sure if I *love* it...
<JaneW> I do like it though ;)
<JaneW> ok moving to meeting
<JaneW> calling ogra
<JaneW> ogra: please report to #ubuntu-meeting ;)
<JaneW> CD PACKAGING:  mhz contributed these designs for the CD packaging http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip, please have a look and place comments at the bottom of the page.
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Nov 16 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | http://www.stroven.org/blog/?postid=63
<pere> JaneW: hi. :)
<JaneW> :)
<pips1> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan
<pips1>  more to follow... 
<pips1> ah JaneW, you are still in the meeting room
<JaneW> going now bbiab
<pips1> ok, I will get in touch with henrik and jonathan
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_default.png , http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_inet1.png , http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_inet2.png
<mhz> ogra: educool
<mhz> thx for listening
<ogra> :)
<mhz> :)
<mhz> ogra: have you seen hno73 lately?
<ogra> pinged him
<hno73> hi
<ogra> :)
<mhz> hno73: hi
<hno73> mhz: hello :)  Sorry, I've been out of touch for a while
<mhz> hno73: i'm on the phone. will you be around in 10 mins?
<hno73> mhz: I'm going on the phone too. I'll be here in about 30 min.
<mhz> lol
* mhz has just finished the conversation on the phone 
<mhz> ogra: I am trying to motivate a programmer and sysadmin of Tecnocimiento to participate of edubuntu developing. What kind of info would be key to tell him? What skills would he need? 
<ogra> mhz, any skills are fine... i'd like to have more maintainers, but he'd have to become a MOTU first 
<mhz> ogra: skills is too general. could you please specify some? 
* mhz still can't imagine how admining sys processes would be useful on edubuntu programming
<ogra> liking to program....
<ogra> some low python skills would be preferable
<mhz> ok
<mhz> and then, you 'mentor' him?
<mhz> you assign tasks?
<mhz> does he need to have diff hw availaable?
<hno73> mhz: back
<mhz> cool
<mhz> can i shoot?
<hno73> yep
<mhz> Wiki pages and data/ There have been some discussion about the good or bad of the wiki merging. Despite that conversation, I'd like to focus on how to make it easier for users to find the info they look for and for doc contributors to wiki pages in a more organized way.
<mhz> Once I thought that 'promoting' the use of standarized wiki names would be ok (EdubuntuHowToNetwork, UbuntuHowToNetwork, KubuntuHowToNetwork, XubuntuHowToNetwork, etc), but then I was told that CamelCase was not a favourite :(  So people would still see HowToNetwork title and can't tell if it is Ubuntu or Kubuntu or anything related.
<mhz> Then I thought, CategoryEdubuntuGeneral CategoryEdubuntuHowTo, etc. But then we should train people to wiki page creation by using Templates.
<mhz> If training is needed, wouldn't we need to consider ACL first, so people who read the 'training' pages and get familiar with how to wiki pages, get to a WikiContributorGroup or something?
<hno73> The wiki is very open, fluid and active (those are also related) and people are keen to keep it that way
<hno73> I think imposing ACLs would be good if we need to eliminate spam or vandalism, but not just to force people to use vthe right formats
<hno73> why exactly is the current structure (or lack of) a problem?
<hno73> btw: we will be adding an extra CPU to that machine tomorrow
<mhz> because when you use RecentChanges, for example, you see info about kubuntu, ubuntu specific, etc.
<mhz> another cpu? cooooollliiiisimo
<hno73> Yes, filtered RecentChanges would be cool
<hno73> by category, say
<hno73> I think that feature in itself would greatly encourage people to start using categories
<mhz> now you see my point :)
<mhz> I mean, if i am at wiki.edubuntu.org, I expect everything to be edubuntu related.
<hno73> so, how do we go about getting the filtered RC feature coded? :)
<mhz> hehehe, my first idea was FlavourPageNames
<hno73> but it's not that simple, because the projects are inherently linked
<mhz> exactly
<hno73> and many ubuntu pages are useful for edubuntu users
<mhz> exactly
<hno73> and developers too
<mhz> exactly
<pips1> hello hno73, I'm Philipp from the Edubuntu summit, I'm keen on helping with the Edubuntu website... I did some initial brainstorming today and have started putting it up on the wiki for discussion. Since you and highvoltage weren't at the edubuntu-meeting today, jane suggested I'd get in touch by email. And now you are here! :-) 
<mhz> but, IMHO, it all starts from the person who actually starts a wiki page.
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
<pips1> Hi mhz, you answered an email of mine to the edubuntu list, earlier ;-)
<mhz> pips1: oh, you are Philip
<ogra> probably someone likes to add more tet or beautify the descriptions a bit :)
<mhz> :)
<ogra> *text
<pips1> mhz: yep
<mhz> ogra: so, if FlavouredPageName is not a favourite, then Category is our only hope
<hno73> pips1: hello :) reading ...
<ogra> yes, i know
<mhz> ogra: sorry
<mhz> hno73: : so, if FlavouredPageName is not a favourite, then Category is our only hope
* mhz was so used to say ogra:
<ogra> heh
<pips1> hno73: the real meat is yet to come.. wip.. :-)
<mhz> hno73: i'd say Category + Templates
<mhz> and a simple page on which we motivate contributors to use a more "standarized" wiki style
<hno73> pips1: ok :)  I'll read the meeting logs as well from earlier
<hno73> mhz: agreed
<hno73> One option is to drive the front-end websites with a moin wiki
<pips1> hno73: in the meeting, there wasn't really too much discussion regarding web site yet
<mhz> hmmm, lost me (my english problem)
<hno73> that would encourage people to use good markup because only the mature and correct pages would make it into the 'official' site
<hno73> mhz: have the main website be a separate moin implementation, where only a few can edit
<mhz> .oO(ooh,, having RC differintiate between Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, etc and also adding an icon on the same line, that'd be just perfect
<hno73> that looks like just a website
<mhz> hno73: oh, that, too
<mhz> hno73: is like wikimaster and wikiwiki
<hno73> having a different icon based on category would be cool!
<mhz> hno73: I can start 'motivating' moin gang :D
<hno73> we are considering a moin-based www.ubuntu.com
<hno73> Plone is a real pain sometimes
<mhz> we = who?
<mhz> hehehehe
<hno73> Jane Silber and I
* mhz used plone for just 2 days and got back to moin
<hno73> I need to look into it more closely to see if there are any major obstacles in doing it
<mhz> i see
<hno73> we need to figure out how to make the side menus
<hno73> I have some ideas ...
<mhz> what do you need?
<mhz> shoot
<hno73> Not the same as standard moin menus, they need to be page context sensitive
<hno73> perhaps we could put a # menupagename = URL at the top of a page
<hno73> which would pull in a pre-made HTML menu
<mhz> did you ever see Nir's section proposal for Menus?
<hno73> or have python generate one from an array of titles and URLs
<hno73> no, I've looked at some plugins, but not that
<mhz> Nir used a 'plug in' he developed. He had a PageWhatever thta was called from MoinPage and it was rendered as a very cool menu on either right or left side
<mhz> thta = that
<hno73> yes, that sounds good. URL?
<mhz> i'll get in contact with him again. I've been away from moin for a very while but they still love me :D
<hno73> You would need quite a few different menu pages though
<hno73> :D
<hno73> and you'd have to update them by hand
<mhz> no problem. The GOOD SPECTACULAR thing about nir's plugin is that Users control what is shown on that menu, because the plugin is controlled via normal wiki editing
<hno73> having a python-based plugin would be even better
<hno73> right. It's a good first option
<mhz> python-based would be great but that would mean code touching and i don't know programming yet :(
<hno73> I might be a able to learn some ...
<hno73> So the point is, this page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ is different from http://www.ubuntu.com/support/ and again from this http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/ (the menu changes)
<hno73> esp. if you count the moving selector thing as a change
<hno73> then every menu is different
<mhz> those menus are all piece of cake with nir's
* mhz will look into his old moin tests. Maybe he'll have something for henrik to see
<hno73> cool. Well, I think static ones are easy, but the changing ones might be a bit harder
<mhz> why?
<mhz> do they change automatically?
<hno73> no, but each page is different, so that's like 100 different menu files
<hno73> each slightly different
<mhz> on plone?
<hno73> sure, look at the links above. No page has exactly the same menu
<mhz> hmm, i mean in Moin you'd just do:
<mhz> on a wiki page:
<mhz> {{{section!
<mhz> TheMenu
<mhz> }}}
<mhz> then go to TheMenu page
<mhz> and just 
<mhz>  * OneLine
<mhz>  * AnotherLine
<mhz>  * ThirdPageLin
<mhz> That will render a menu with those line on a WikiPage
<hno73> sure, but you would need to call it TheMenu101 or whatever because you'd need 100 different Menu pages
<mhz> ahhh
<mhz> i see your point, now
<hno73> the change is very small, but still
<mhz> yes. but how would it be ideal, then?
<hno73> menustructure.py would contain an array with the full menu structure
<hno73> some plugin would call that file and use it as input
<mhz> ah, then you'd 'untick' pages you don't need?
<hno73> and would show a slightly different menu depending on the active page
<hno73> huh?
<jeffc> hi, i'm new under edubuntu, can I expose some point of view ?
<mhz> oh, i see now
<mhz> jeffc: shoot
<jeffc> i want serv some terminals
<jeffc> i have some pb with dhcp server
<jeffc> because i search on the wrong dhcpd.conf
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> jeffc: yet another person who did not read InstallNotes :D
<jeffc> i just find it's in /etc/ltsp not /etc/dhcp
<jeffc> of course
<jeffc> another thing, it's terminal are most off time some old PC
<mhz> ogra: should we just eliminate /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf file from there?
<jeffc> and PXE don't exist
<mhz> jeffc: can they boot from floppy or cd?
<jeffc> it's necessary to make an .nbi
<ogra> mhz, doesnt work, the dhcp server needs the default file too
<mhz> ogra: how about ''DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE"
<ogra> mhz, nope... its the default file shiopped by ubuntus dhcp server... 
<mhz> hmmm
<Yagisan> jeffc: you can make the old pc's boot pxe
<Yagisan> jeffc: even if they need to boot from floppy, cd or hard disk
<ogra> mhz, the right fix will be in the next release when the /etc/ltso/dhcpd.conf file gets autogenerated and you simply dont need to touch iut
<Yagisan> jeffc: to do it
<jeffc> now the "terminal" boot but only with the same "LTSP Display Manager"
<jeffc> again and again
<mhz> hno73: so, to sum up... I contact moin gang and see how possible is to work out the RC thing, first. Then I try to get nir's plugin
<ogra> jeffc, you cant log in ? 
<jeffc> exact
<ogra> but you use a user that exists on the server ? 
<Yagisan> G'day mhz, talk go well ?
<jeffc> yes
<mhz> ogra: I bet people will still start editing dchpd.conf  after installing :D
<jeffc> i change hosts.allow
<ogra> mhz, yes, i cant do anything about it
<ogra> eek
<ogra> jeffc, why ? 
<jeffc> just in case of ?
<hno73> mhz: sound cool, thanks :)
<mhz> Yagisan: yes and nop. Yes, people were happy. Nop because mplayer showed the .avi very small and I have never used it so i was no help
<ogra> jeffc, there is only one thing you must change, as described on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<jeffc> i 've did that
<ogra> jeffc, is your sshd running on the server ? 
<mhz> jeffc: I could not login for a while until i ltsp-update-sshkeys
<jeffc> i see now
<ogra> mhz, that gets run on install
<mhz> oh, right
<ogra> dont run it a second time, except you changed the IP of the server
<jeffc> yes it's in the "service list"
<mhz> hehehe, which was my case
<Yagisan> mhz: ah, mplayer didn't use the right video driver
<jeffc> and in processus list
<ogra> mhz, still, you should delete the od ssh keyfile first.. else you got duplicated entrys
<ogra> jeffc, ok
<mhz> ogra: ooh, good to know
<mhz> Yagisan: now it sounds logical. Back then.. we just not use the video :D
<jeffc> what file exactly ?
<ogra> jeffc, chack if /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts exists
<ogra> check even
<mhz> hno73: ok, so i'll let you know the advances
<ogra> jeffc, and check the content...
<Yagisan> mhz: wish I could have given you a quick tut before the talk
<jeffc> it's empty
<ogra> if its empty/non existent, then run "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys"
<ogra> jeffc, thats a edubuntu default install ? 
<jeffc> yes a new install
<ogra> hmm, very strange
<ogra> and the instal finished properly and dropped you to gdm on the server in the end ? 
<ogra> *install
<mhz> Yagisan: np, I never thought they would have .avi in first place
<jeffc> yes, but i can't boot with the kernel 2.6.9-12
<ogra> huh ? why ? 
<jeffc> I reinstall an old hoary to have 2.6.10
<ogra> edubuntu and ltsp is 100% depending on features in the breezy kernel and initramfs
<jeffc> and after i load the last kernel 2.6.12-9-k7
<ogra> the thin clients wont work right without initramfs, hoarys kernel doesnt support initramfs
<jeffc> i've now the 2.6.12-9-k7 of edubuntu
<ogra> what didnt work with the default kernel ? 
<jeffc> i don't find : error unknow 990
<ogra> huh... strange...
<jeffc> the hoary : no problem ; breezy : crash
<ogra> do the thin clients work after you ran "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" ?
<jeffc> i go try the terminal with the update-sshkeys
<ogra> yup
<ogra> should let you in now
<ogra> probably you have to reboot the client to read the new config from the server
<jeffc> MIRACLE all it's fine ;))
<ogra> :)
<jeffc> my goal it's to use some old PC not for children but for student
<ogra> fine :)
<jeffc> it is preferable to use ubuntu+ltsp or it's the same with edubuntu ?
<ogra> edubuntu is a bit more colourful and brighter... 
<mhz> edubuntu is cut out for education and ltsp
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots
<jeffc> it's "just" the theme and some packages by default exact ?
<ogra> jeffc, techincally they are the same, excep that edubuntu brings nearly everything preconfigured
<ogra> and added educational apps indeed
<jeffc> do you think that an existant hoary with users can upgrade to edubuntu directly with the CD
<ogra> hmm, good question... it should work... but you probably need to install edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop manually afterwards and the autoconfiguration of ltsp wont be done, since this happens in the first part of the CD installer
<ogra> but you can come bac here and we can lead you through the setup, its not hard
<mhz> ogra: edubuntu-server if i prefer kde or wm, right?
<ogra> mhz, edubuntu-server is ltsp, postgres prepared for moodle install, apache and schooltool
<ogra> mhz, but no autoconfiguration of ltsp ...
<mhz> so, we are forced to install gnome?
<jeffc> i try to load the few ltsp package on an test Pc, but i had the same problems than today
<jeffc> now i know the pb ssh-key (grace  vous)
<jeffc> i can try an other test
<ogra> if you install on ubuntu, just follow the ThinClientHowto ... but note thats not necessary on edubuntu
<jeffc> what is the state of using the CDrom player and floppy, usb... of the "terminal" ?
<ogra> as outlined on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes thats part of the next release
<ogra> as well as sound on the thin clients
<JaneW> ogra: the TeacherTool meantioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs, is that an exisiting product or something we want to spec and produce ourselves?
<jeffc> like in thinstation and the other PXES, very excinting ;)
<ogra> JaneW, thats SCP which is half existent...
<ogra> or 2/3 existent
<JaneW> SCP?
<ogra> Teachers Pet
<JaneW> oic
<ogra> the thing we talked about several times :)
<ogra> i dont really think it makes sense to have a BOF about it
<jeffc> i try automount with samba and "postexecute", but the umount doesn't work ;(
<JaneW> ogra: really?
<ogra> JaneW, i wont rewrite it... we only have 6-8 weeks development time for dapper
<ogra> probably even less...
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> UVF will be a month earlier.... no features can be developed after UVF
<highvoltage> hi.
<ogra> in fact that brings us in a similar situation as we had in breezy... way to short time for development
<JaneW> sigh
* mhz wanna go to those BOF
<mhz> highvoltage: hi
<ogra> JaneW, if we want to make a BOF about student management software, we should rather try to outline the TeachersPet spec more detailed... its planned to have a plugin mechanism, so it can get extended over time by external programmers or even by studen classes 
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<ogra> highvoltage, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring if you have any ideas, feel free to add descriptive text 
<ogra> its lacking a bit on descriptions whats really going on in such a setup
<highvoltage> ogra: nice, i have one too that i wanted to put up in response the the k12 site comments, today was just too hectic.
<ogra> but i'll put up a separate howto anyway that describes the technology more detailed step by step
<jeffc> i've just see the scheme on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring and it's clear
<ogra> great :) 
<mhz> in fact, very clear :)
<jeffc> may be say that 2 eth card can be interresting in a big network with some server dhcp in place
<ogra> but you already know what youre doing... its rather thought for people that dont know what NIC or router means... so there will be more text needed :)
<ogra> great suggestion, thanks :)
<mhz> ogra: maybe, adding howto make it work when dhcp server is already there
<ogra> mhz, then you should also go with the two NIC variant ... probably worth to add at the last pic
<mhz> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra: here's the one i wanted to modify for edubuntu: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/JonathanCarter/TuxlabTopology?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=topology.pdf - I'll put some explanations with your diagrams this weekend (if no one beats me to it)
<ogra> highvoltage, but thats not reflecting our default install
<mhz> .oO(that's higher voltage)
<ogra> would be the third pic... which requires at least basic networking skills
<ogra> highvoltage, do out always route through the server at tuxlabs setups ?
<highvoltage> ogra: could you please rephrase that?
<ogra> do you always route the thin clients through the server to get them on the net ? 
<highvoltage> with xdmcp, you don't have much of a choice, do you?
<highvoltage> it doesn't actually get routed,
<ogra> thin client --> telekom goes through the server via a second NIC in your diagram
<highvoltage> if the server has a connection, everyone has a connection.
<ogra> yes
<ogra> see my second pic and compare it with my third pic...
<ogra> the second is the cheaper setup ... and yo dont have to tweak the servers defaults...
<highvoltage> well, yes. when a lab has some kind of internet connection, we add another box that does all the caching, etc, that always connects to the second ethernet port on the server.
<highvoltage> we do that also to spare space on the switch.
<highvoltage> ok, checking your pic again...
<ogra> yup, thats hat i thought
<ogra> *what
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, your pic 3 and my pic are exactly the same afaict
<ogra> yes
<highvoltage> except that i have another box between the internet and server.
<highvoltage> sorry, you did call it "router/firewall", which could imply some kind of box.
<ogra> yes, i was assumuing a firewall/NAT router as internet gateway
<highvoltage> i like the way you've done it.
<ogra> in fact i'm lazy, i only use the pic2 setup here :)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: what links to that page at the moment?
<ogra> the InstallNotes
<ogra> nothing else yet... and one mail i snt to edubuntu-devel :)
<ogra> *sent
<highvoltage> ok. I think I need to put a "Documentation" link on the static page, that links to "/EdubuntuDocumentation" that has a link to all our documentation.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> feel free to reparent as needed
<highvoltage> ok.
<highvoltage> ogra: also, which python container would you recommend for the edubuntu site?
<highvoltage> i'm thinking of using python to paste together our pages.
<ogra> hmm, rather a question for #launchpad, there are our python/web specialists... 
<highvoltage> i thought about using psp or mod-python, but many people in my local lug suggest that i use some kind of container framework,
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<ogra> they know what to do and which will be the right choice
* ogra always writes his python webscripts as cgi's
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: i also always do it as .cgi, but i thought that ubuntu wouldn't approve (and i don't think most people in ubuntu will)
<ogra> yes, exactly :)
<ogra> cgi is also eating cpu and mem if you have high traffic, its only good for low traffic sites
<highvoltage> damn, here i was hoping you would say "no, cgi is fine, no one will mind!"
* highvoltage hates to be right
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> dont we have our own server ? 
<highvoltage> yes, you're right.
<highvoltage> yes, we do.
<ogra> so do what you like then ;) 
<ogra> but we'll moan if it gets slow, be prepared ;)
<highvoltage> ok, i think i'll start with cgi, just to keep things simple at the moment.
<highvoltage> then i'll investigate some proper implementations in the meantime.
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'll be prepared ;)
<ogra> *g*
<jfc> i've to go , thanks a lot Ogra, i'm be back when i start the server miration (hoary --> edubuntu)
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> youre welcome :)
* Yagisan thinks his dsl provider should be shot - 45 minute outage - and no one to answer tech support :(
<ogra> hah... you complain about 45min outage ? 
<Yagisan> it's only a small one today , but it's because there damm servers stop authenticating
<pips1> highvoltage: ping
<gr8nash2> what a cool project guys.. i cant wait to try it out at our school
<juliux> ogra, we are at the linux days in essen
<juliux> ogra, link is wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messen/2005 the edubuntu server will be there also
<juliux> ogra, just for your information
<rem_> anyone knows how to filter porn in aMule ... ?
<koke> hmm, sounds quite hard
<koke> I'm installing edubuntu now and installation is quite long
<koke> wouldn't be better to have the LTSP root in a tarball and unpack it?
<koke> oops, maybe it doesn't fit on cd, I presume
<ogra> koke, its a bit different, i'll explain afer the meeting...
<koke> ok
<ogra> still here ? 
<ogra> koke, ?
<koke> wait, swithcing to laptop...
<ogra> hey :)
<koke> hi again
<ogra> legacy ltsp did what you described above
#edubuntu 2005-10-25
<koke> btw, the edubuntu installer has asked for my IP having DHCP, it's a feature?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> so you had a some 100MB big tarball with a separate release inside for the chroot
<ogra> non upgradeable etc... all the drawbacks a monolithic chroot setup can have
<ogra> what we do is to actually bootstrap a chroot 
<ogra> so you use the same package base as the main system and are fully upgradeable
<koke> but with a tarball it can be upgradeable too
<ogra> all packages used in the chroot are original breezy pkg's with modifications of the defaults where necessary, but applying to the whole distro
<ogra> sure it could..
<ogra> but thats how we do it currently.. and a tarball would duplicate thepackages on CD and you'd loos the ability to just wipe the chroot and build it new without the CD
<ogra> as it is now, you can just rebuild the chroot from archive.ubunut.com
<ogra> *ubuntu
<koke> no, I mean the tarball would contain a fresh chroot generated at cd build time (maybe)
<koke> and could be regenerated
<koke> it's just a matter of making installation faster
<ogra> yes, but only if you have the tarball with the CD available
<ogra> its a matter of reporting ... the progressbar doesnt work as you'll have noticed
<ogra> if you can see whats going on its not that bad...
<koke> mmm, I mean all the chroots generated in installations of same architecture should be identical
<ogra> building the chroot takes exactly 9minutes
<ogra> which other chroots do ou mean ? there is only one for the thin clients
<koke> IMO the ubuntu installation is slow enough
<koke> I have to try the live installer
<ogra> there is no live installer yet
<koke> live CD installers became popular because they cloned a disk in a few minutes
<ogra> mdz and Kamion will develop it for dapper i think
<koke> and ubuntu-express?
<koke> is dead?
<ogra> thats not even close to the spec
<koke> I thought they were still working on it
<ogra> they just started to build what they found appropriate... i'm not sure if it will ever enter ubuntu
<ogra> they ignored the spe
<ogra> c
<ogra> there is gone a lot of money int bountys for stuff they dont use etc... but to be honest i have no clue about the current status 
<koke> I thought they were working and reporting to ubuntu-devel
<koke> and taking suggestions from there
<ogra> heh, yes 5 mails during the whole release cycle...
<ogra> probably 10 i didnt count exactly
<ogra> but they neither worked with the ubuntu community nor did they follow the spec 
<koke> and more, they are making the installer for Guadalinex, which is based on Ubuntu, so it wouldn't be logical to distance from u-d
<ogra> tell that to them
<ogra> the packages wouldnt even go through revu ... at least the alst time i looked at them
<koke> the code was not very good too :)
<ogra> yes
<koke> I wanted to check the source and fix some things when I get some free time
<ogra> but its mdz's call, no idea how he thinks about it
<ogra> i'm so swamped with edubuntu that i dont have the time to look deeper into such projects... edubuntu breezy was a one man show...
<ogra> but back on topic...
<ogra> the edubuntu powerpc CD was at 699MB at the end... there wouldnt even been space for any tarball with a chroot :)
<ogra> not to mention that we'll support multiarch ltsp next reease so it would have to be 3 tarballs :)
<ogra> which would fill a whole CD on its own
<koke> I can't imagine a 64 bits "thin" client ;P
<ogra> i use one for tesing ;)
<ogra> (my laptop is amd64)
<koke> I meant in production, just kidding anyway :)
<ogra> but you are right
<ogra> the main demand is ppc clients on i386 servers or i386 clients on amd64 servers ...
<ogra> and indeed the default i386 on i386 servers
<ogra> surely amd64 as clinet is not common... but i met people using ltsp on amd64 clinents with local apps for HPC tasks...
<ogra> and a big transparent cluster as server...
<ogra> but thats rather enterprise level edubuntu has not to care about yet
<koke> the cluster includes clients?
<koke> I have wanted to try that for a long time
<ogra> you have a transparent mosix or beowulf cluster and attach clients to it...
<ogra> thast something i think about to automate for dapper+1
<koke> great!
<ogra> if you install a edubuntu ltsp it should ask if it should run standalone or join the cluster on install
<ogra> the rest should be automated :)
<ogra> the edubuntu instll may take long, but regarding that you dont have to edit more than one file post install, the feedback is great... 
<ogra> k12 ltsp can take you days to set up
<ogra> even if the install might be faster :)
<koke> so edubuntu it's primarily focused to be installed as a terminal server?
<ogra> ltsp is installed by default :)
<ogra> see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<Topslakr> anyone here every try to use a server 2003 DHCP server with edubuntu/ltsp
<Topslakr> i have found a few docs about it, but nothing from the edubuntu or ltsp
<ogra> why should we... edubuntu brings its own dedicated dhcp server
<Topslakr> heh, cause :)
<ogra> just make sure to have 2 NICs in the server...
<Topslakr> I have an existing dhcp server thats working just didn't know if it had been tried
<Topslakr> I don't have the 2 nic setup option, servers and clients aren't close and they need to share and existing network
<ogra> the first one cna grab the IP from the 2003 server, the second serves the thin client setup
<ogra> then yu have to tweak a lot...
<Topslakr> hmm, some one in here told me it would be easy :) I
<ogra> rip out the dhcp server from edubuntu and adjust the 2003 server to point to the edubuntu erver
<koke> hmm, I should have typed workstation :(
<Topslakr> I'm willing to use a linux DHCP server, but I can't dedicated a section of my network to edubuntu
<koke> I ran out of battery at ~90% of creating chroot
<ogra> koke, its not thats much stuff that gets installed along, dont worry
<koke> I just wanted to test it and see how was it going :)
<ogra> Topslakr, first see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes and the linked docs to understand how edubuntu is set up...
<ogra> Topslakr, after that http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowto might have some hints howto use it with a external dhcp server... you need to rip out r deactivate the one in edubuntu indeed
<ogra> Topslakr, the default setup is for pic 1 on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
<Topslakr> yeah, i saw that setup guide. Was very nicely done.
<ogra> thanks :)
<Topslakr> I'm going to have to keep on digging... thx again. I'll keep moving on
<ogra> please report back if and how you got it running... we'll add it to the docs :=
<ogra> :)
<Topslakr> I'll keep notes :)
<ogra> thanls a lot :-D
* koke $ sudo halt
<Topslakr> is it possible to force the removal of a pkg without it takeing off thngs that depend on it?
<dabaR> Topslakr: do you have a specific package in mind?
<dabaR> I mean, what is the package that you do not want to remove.
<Topslakr> i want to keep the ltsp and edubuntu server but i want to drop dhcp
<Topslakr> I'm trying a work around right now
<dabaR> those are likely metapackages.
<dabaR> edubuntu-server can safely be removed, most likely. What is the name of other packaeg exactly?
<dabaR> ok, Topslakr, do you understand the concept of a metapackage?
<dabaR> if you do not know, want to know, and have a sec for me to explain, let me know.
<dabaR> btw, the other one is also likely a metapackage, most most likely.
<Topslakr> I'd love to know what that means :) I'm trying an another solution at the moment but and explanation of meta-pkgs would be good
<dabaR> well, here goes. It is a package, taht inside it contains a list of dependencies. Really, itself, it is nothing, but a list of packages that make up ltsp-server, and edubuntu-server. Why they are used, is so that you dont have to think what packages you want, but just get that, and it gets the common ones. So, edubuntu-desktop, is a list of dependencies that make up the edubuntu-desktop. Removing any package from that list using synapti
<dabaR> So, if I was to remove just edubuntu-desktop, using aptitude, or synaptic, I would not lose one single functionality on my computer. I think that both of those are metapackages, because of their size, which ubotu told me.
<dabaR> !ask the bot
<dabaR> hey, you guys dont have ubotu.
<dabaR> anyhow, ubotu is a bot on #ubuntu, which is where I am mostly, and there is a syntax to ask him about packages.
<dabaR> what they are, what size, and where to find them(which repo/component of ubuntu)
<dabaR> so, looking at those two packages, their size is too small for them to be really anything else than a metapackage - 36 and 88kB each, unpacked.
<dabaR> 6 and 11kB packaged.
<dabaR> I am not 100% sure they are metapackages howwever, but your chances are such. So what I am saying is that if you remove the two packages, nothing really is lost. It is just that dhcp-server(if that is what you are removing) is part of the common edubuntu-server setup, and ltsp-server setup.
<dabaR> anyhow, I hope you read this, so that I have not typed for nothing:)
<dabaR> let me know if something is unclear.
<Topslakr> it makes
<Topslakr> it makes good sense to me but what does the metapkg do?
<dabaR> it has as a list of dependencies what is commonly known as the edubuntu server set, or so.
<dabaR> get it?
<Topslakr> yeah
<Topslakr> so have u ever run this edubuntu term server using a server 2003 DHCP server?
<dabaR> so, removing a package that is a list of packages, changes nothing...in other words.
<Topslakr> makes sense dabaR, and i appreciate your time
<dabaR> Oh, no doubt, I like wasting my time.
<dabaR> on some purpose...
<dabaR> spread the word:)))
<Topslakr> haha
<dabaR> No, I mean, you know, now all your friends can too:)
<Topslakr> i c
<DK1> Hi,  setup a Edubuntu sever and thinclient room, Booting using etherboot. I can connect to the LTSP display manager but when I log in  it just switches X straight back to the login manager, any help much appreciated
<dabaR> DK1: no errrors?
<DK1> dabaR > Got a few read only errors during the boot
<dabaR> DK1: could be it. do you know exact errors? anything about /tmp by some chance?
<DK1> dabaR > /ETC/RCs.D/s39IFUPDOWN line 77: /etc/network/run/ifstate read only
<DK1> dabaR > Random Number generator fails
<DK1> dabaR > Is there any log of the boot I can look at ?
<DK1> dabaR > nothing about /tmp
<dabaR> DK1: That I can not answer, so maybe someone else knows. I had errors like that that bring me back to the login screen, but, with an error dialog box first, and I would change the permissions to /tmp, and it would work. Im just a community member, though, most people that are here, when they are here, know moer, since they are developers.
<DK1> dabaR > Thats cool, thanks for trying
<dabaR> ya, sure.
<Yagisan> DK1: Where are the errors - client or server ?
<dabaR> Yagisan: well, the client logs in, and then logs out>back to gdm again.
<DK1> Yagisan > Sorry should have made it clear, they are occuring during the kernel load on the client.
<Yagisan> DK1: the clients show a lot of "errors" on boot, as they has a read only filesystem and expect a read-write filesystem
<Yagisan> DK1: those errors are harmless
<Yagisan> not logging in however - seems to be the ssh key issue
<Yagisan> on the server in a terminal try running "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" then reboot a client and try to log in
<DK1> Yagisan > Thanks, I didnt think they where to serious as it is starting X, Ill check ssh now thanks
<Yagisan> make sure the account you are trying to log into exists on the server
<Yagisan> no worries
<Yagisan> I've got to duck out now - have to a potential customer - I'll be back in several hours
<Yagisan> goo luck
<Yagisan> s/goo/good
<DK1> Yagisan > Thanks mate
<dabaR> DK1: let me know whether that fixed it, so I know for the future, please.
<DK1> Yagisan is a legend, worked first time .. Funny cause I had just tried to login using another bash terminal and got no such user, so the keys where the prob, awsome  !
<dabaR> thanks for letting me know, hopefully it helps in the future.
<DK1> dabaR > Just as a note that was a vanilla install of 5.10, im going to install crossover now, wish me luck 
<dabaR> good luck.
<JaneW> morning
<highvoltage> morning
<highvoltage> what does "infinite justice" mean wrt a new server setup? :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> all your servers are belong to us
<jane_> highvoltage: sorry got disconnected, did you respond?
<JaneW> heh freudian slip (trying to be Jane S and Jane W) ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i didn't get a response either :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<jsgotangco> hey you two
<highvoltage> hey js
<highvoltage> figured out what infinite justice is yet? :P
* JaneW said
<JaneW> give some more context please...?
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> JaneW: in the context of setting up a server?
<highvoltage> an ubuntu server, see mdz's announcement :)
<JaneW> well who or what siad that
* JaneW goes to look
<jsgotangco> infinite justice
<JaneW> no idea, I can't find any reference...
* jsgotangco uses his last go opensource sticker beside the gnu/linux sticker from rms :(
<JaneW> :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: why :( ?
<jsgotangco> i only have a few at adi gave me during udu
<JaneW> highvoltage: hilton keep promising me a Geek Freedom Legue t-shirt - but I never get it :(
* JaneW wants one for UBZ 
<JaneW> League even
<jsgotangco> i tried doing an edubuntu sticker for my laptop but it didnt look nice at all so i was thinking of having a few printed outside
<Jeromee> is there an Ubuntu-Server channel?
<JaneW> not sure...
<JaneW> try.
<JaneW> can we tell how many ppl have d/led edubuntu 5.10 since the launch?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> good question
<highvoltage> anyone seen hno73 around?
<jsgotangco> rolling around prolly :)
<highvoltage> heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: are you in anyway able to u/l Steve Torrefranca's grub and GDM stuff? (pretty please) ... it's just sitting in my in box *waiting*
<jsgotangco> u/l where?
<JaneW> highvoltage: I don't think he's in yet
<JaneW> jsgotangco: either to our wiki, or the ubuntu.art site
<jsgotangco> ok let me dig up steve's email again
<JaneW> jsgotangco: would you like to be an admin on the art site?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> err what license is this?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, admin the server itself or the art portal?
<JaneW> er art portal http://art.ubuntu.com/admin/index.php
<jsgotangco> sure
<JaneW> so you can moderate edubuntu art submissions etc
<JaneW> I will ask hno73 to add you, he is battling to keep up with the load on the site (hence the delays)
<jsgotangco> well i can do the other stuff as well (ubuntu/kubuntu)
<JaneW> nod
<JaneW> jsgotangco: have you got a login there yet? cos you'll need to create one to be promoted to admin...
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<jsgotangco> JaneW, ok created login already
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool
<ajmitch_> hi all
<ajmitch_> how are things looking today? :)
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> can we tell how many ppl have d/led edubuntu 5.10 since the launch?
<JaneW> no one has put any comments in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBreezyReleaseComments yet.
<ogra> JaneW, i guess maswan Znarl or elmo can give us numbers
<JaneW> ogra: ok thanks
<highvoltage> strange.
<highvoltage> i'm in an incredibly good mood today and i don't even know why.
<highvoltage> which is weird, because i don't have "moods".
<highvoltage> must be summer coming :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: lol
<JaneW> highvoltage: did someone give you a little pill to try or something? ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, exactly the opposite here....
<ogra> since two days its gray cold and wet here... winter coming....
<highvoltage> JaneW: no, but if anyone did, please tell me which type of pill it is, and where i can buy it!
<JaneW> highvoltage: that good huh?
<highvoltage> ogra: the nice thing is, everybody else is cheering up too, it's like a big circle effect :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep :)
<ogra> highvoltage, same here... everybody gets depressive, it's like a big circle effect :)
<highvoltage> heh
<JaneW>  http://www.fixx.co.za/pics/00025628.jpg <- caught in the act
<ogra> lol
* highvoltage just solved his first edubuntu bug
<highvoltage> #18168 :)
<ogra> wasnt this screensahot gone already ? i didnt see it anymore
<highvoltage> i removed just the screenshot, but i only replaced it now.
<highvoltage> http://www.edubuntu.org/tour.html is now the new screenshots page
<highvoltage> still incomplete, but better than the old one, at least.
<ogra> looks cool :)
<highvoltage> what's the difference between schoolbell and schooltool on edubuntu? or at least, how should I explain it to someone?
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks :)
<ogra> ignore schoolbell, its not installed in this release
<ogra> will be in the next though
<highvoltage> i'd like to flesh it out later with "Relevant documentation:" and "How to get there:"
<highvoltage> and also add more meaningful screenshots. for instance, there's no data in the OOo screenshots, so it doesn't show much of what OOo is capable of. same for schooltool, etc.
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> i need to get some blender examples too... blender looks a bit sucky with no doc open...
<ogra> looks at the blender HP ... there are some
<highvoltage> it seems like they are only small png's as well, i want something that i can open in blender so that i can show wire frame views, etc. perhaps i'm just looking past it... /me investigetes further...
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you make of this?
<highvoltage> 15:54 < stefanor> highvoltage: ubuntu LTSP definitly doesn't support sound - there is no esd installed on the thin client :-)
<ogra> we surely wont use esd once we add sound :)
<ogra> but he is right, we dont support sound yet.... 
<highvoltage> ah, ok. i was mistaken then.
<ogra> thats why http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes states that we neither support sound nor local devices now...
<ogra> we'll work our a solution at UBZ with the ltsp core developers...
<ogra> but i think it'll be a tunneled gstreamer connection for the desktop to the client... surely esd wont be involved... esd will (hopefully) finally die in dapper
<ogra> we try to get rid of it since post warty
<ogra> just installing esd on the client wont solve the prob btw...
<highvoltage> yay!
<highvoltage> i was under the impression that ubuntu likes esd, i'm glad it's going to die. i don't like esd.
<highvoltage> esd--
<ogra> we tried polypaudio in hoary, but there were bad issues and it wasnt actively maintained at this time
<ogra> next release will go straight with dmix/alsa
<ogra> and gstreamer indeed
<ogra> my idea for ltsp was to use gstreamer to forward the sound encoded to the client... 
<juliux> ogra, cool
<ogra> probably flac endcoded...
<ogra> and if the latency doesnt get to high even ssh tunneled
<Yagisan> heh - so I do have useful ideas - UDU should have been longer
* Yagisan goes back to putting baby to sleep
<ogra> oh, yes credits for the codec selection go fully to Yagisan :)
<JaneW> was Yagisan at udu?
<highvoltage> cool.
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<JaneW> ogra:oic
<JaneW> I hadn't realised...
<ogra> he lives there :)
* JaneW met so many new ppl there
<JaneW> ok I think I recall now
<Yagisan> JaneW: did you give out t-shirts at UDU ?
<JaneW> Yagisan: yes Claire and I
<ogra> and sabdfl... at least in my case
<JaneW> Yagisan: I think I remeber giving you one...?
<Yagisan> JaneW: Then I definitely know I met you - I tried to get a second one for my wife,
<JaneW> Yagisan: yes they were limited and restricted I am afraid...
<Yagisan> yes - I remember it clearly now - "G'day, can I have another one" - "NO, now bow down before me, lord of the t-shirts - before I take yours back" :-P
<Yagisan> rather comfortable t-shirt though, I wear it when I'm expected to be doing the "linux geek" thing :)
<Yagisan> now I just need an edubuntu t-shirt to go with it :) hint hint
* JaneW will be hinting too when I am next with the powers that be...
<JaneW> I did not threaten to take yours back! :P
* ogra already has ironing foil 
<JaneW> cool
<ogra> will pepare one for me for UBZ :) 
<ogra> i dont have a shop for t.shirts nearby, else i would produce a handfull
<ogra> i also want a <mdz groupie> and a <Kamion fanboy> shirt :)
<Yagisan> JaneW: details, details
* Yagisan sighs. /me has realised his mysql assignment is due today, not next friday :(
<_tirian_> Is it fairly simple to replace K12LTSP with Edubuntu?
<_tirian_> I already have that installed at the school, but I really don't like Fedora at all (which K12LTSP is based on).
<ogra> _tirian_, its very easy ... see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes, that and the linked subpages are all you need to do
<BeanDip> anyone around?
<ogra> sure
<_tirian_> ogra, Thanks.
<ogra> if you got questions, just come back here :)
<BeanDip> anyone around?
<BeanDip> under debian ltsp seemed to use my server system's user accounts not accounts created within the ltsp directory tree
<BeanDip> I'm lostrnwhat am I doing wrong?
<BeanDip> sorry wrong window
<ogra> but i cant imagine a ltsp thin client environment where you create any users in the ltsp chroot btw :)
<BeanDip> ogra
<BeanDip> under debian with ltsp it used my server's users
<BeanDip> not users from the chroot
<ogra> yes, thats how ubuntu/edubuntu does it too
<ogra> and i couldnt imagine a thin client setup where it would be different
<BeanDip> here let me try repasting my full questionrnputty under windows acts wierd with my naim client
<ogra> who told you you would have to create users in the chroot ? 
<BeanDip> I follow the wiki instructions and everything seems fine, I get an ldm login (very plane grey box with no decor) but when I
<BeanDip> I try loging in it seems as though it accepts the login, tries to start an xsession, the screen flickers and it cocomes back to the login box. I try switching to the console
<BeanDip> to login but it doesn't seem that any of my user accounts are available. on the server I sudo -s and chroot into the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir, and create a user account in the
<ogra> you use edubuntu ? 
<BeanDip> chroot environment and on the thinclient boxes I'm able to login with that, but find that the ubuntu-desktop has not been installed in the ltsp environmentrn am I missing something here?
<BeanDip> I haven't tried edubuntu yet
<BeanDip> but someone else on irc said I should ask herernI was using breezy with the ltsp-server-standalone
<ogra> ah, sounds like a messed up ubuntu then... dont create users in the chroot...
<BeanDip> ogra
<ogra> most liekly your sshd isnt running or the sshkey isnt copied into the chroot
<BeanDip> oh
<BeanDip> question then
<ogra> look if /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts exists and isnt empty
<BeanDip> can I skip out on all the artwork and theming designed for children under edubuntu?
<ogra> else run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server
<BeanDip> because this is for a corporate thinclient
<ogra> you can uninstall edubuntu-artwork... but it will be a bit complicated to get rid of all the edu apps indeed
<BeanDip> sheeshrnI should not undertake projects like this on so little sleep
<BeanDip> maybe if I take a nap I'll find what's going wrong with my breezy/ltsp
* P3L|C4N0 brb
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, you here?
<ogra> jelkner, yes
<jelkner> i want to make a short how-to on setting up edubuntu when not using the default network
<jelkner> i'm on a server with 2 nics
<jelkner> currently eth0 is setup to be on the office lan which is using 192.168.0.x
<jelkner> and we are using dhcp to get an address on that network
<jelkner> so the ltsp side needs to be something else
<jelkner> i'm guessing 192.168.1.x would be a good choice?
<jelkner> (that's what we are using now)
<ogra> the howto is, install with one nic, enable the second one post install and if you think you need it set up NAT like described in the howto we already have
<ogra> taht how it worked for many people now...
<jelkner> when you say, "install with one nic", which one?
<ogra> you arent bound to any ip range anymore since the release
<ogra> pick as you like
<ogra> it doesnt matter...
<jelkner> well, since the install is going to want net access to check for updates and such, i should set eth0 to use that, with dhcp, yes?
<ogra> the dhcp server will server the matching card to the dhcpd.conf file you set up like described in the install doc
<jelkner> i apologize, i haven't read the install doc
<jelkner> where is it?
<ogra>  http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes 
<jelkner> cool
<ogra> has thre links at the bottom...
<ogra> *three
* jelkner goes off to read the install doc
<ogra> it really doesnt matter how you do it... the dhcp server will use the NIC with the matching IP 
<ogra> the next release will allow one NIC to be dhcp client driven and the other to have a static one where it servers the thin clients
<ogra> (there is not much in the install doc ;) )
<jelkner> but that is what i want now
<ogra> since there is not much to do
<jelkner> i want the thin clients on the static eth1
<jelkner> with 192.168.1.x
<ogra> fine 
<jelkner> is that in the doc (i didn't finish reading yet)
<jelkner> ?
<ogra> it doesnt need to be in the doc
<jelkner> why?
<ogra> if you have two nics the installer gives you a choice
<ogra> so you pick the one you need for install, give it an ip (dhcp is disabled on install) and do your instll
<jelkner> seperate choices for network and thin clients?
<ogra> post install you grab the gui and myke your settings as needed
<ogra> sorry, i'm working since 20h excuse my tyopos
<jelkner> what about getting the thin clients to work?
<jelkner> no problem
<ogra> as stated in the doc... you edit the dhcpd file to match the right interface, thats all
<jelkner> ok, let me finish reading the doc
* jelkner returns to reading the docs
<jelkner> wow, the docs are beautiful!
<jelkner> ok, i'm ready to go... thanks!
<jelkner> talk to you later...
<ogra> they certainly need improvement ... so if you have suggestions, go ahead :)
<jelkner> what i see looks great
<ogra> i'll do a detailed description how it works interneally....
<jelkner> it is a clear, step-by-step telling you what you need to know to make it work
<ogra> most of the support i have is caused by people that try to use ltspadmin iin edubuntu
<jelkner> ah, i've never done that
<jelkner> i'm not even familiar with ltspadmin
<ogra> while edbuntu ltsp can work with lts.conf, ltspadmin seems to add some very broken settings (at least for edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2005-10-26
<ogra> its the legacy tool to set up ltsp
<jelkner> do we install ltspadmin in edubuntu?
<ogra> we still support the legacy ltsp...
<bluefrog-10> hi just installed samba+ldap on ubu-server and no more sudo (pam can't retrieve authentif info)any1 can help?
<ogra> nope, but its in universe
<jelkner> ok, so i won't worry about it
<jelkner> but i'm glad to know in case i hear someone talking about it
<ogra> bluefrog-10, sorry, to tired... i'm here since 20h
<jelkner> i gotta run, thanks ogra!
<bluefrog-10> :)
<ogra> ciao jelkner 
<ogra> bluefrog-10, probably in #ubuntu 
<pitux> hello
<pitux> i need help for test about tecnology and education for teachers?
<pitux> alguien que hable espa~nol y me ayude con el idioma
<pschulz01> Hello... is there any artwork for Edubuntu suitable for printing onto CD? 
<dabaR> pschulz01: did you look at the web site?
<pschulz01> dabaR: looking... can't see anything there though.
<N6REJ> good evening all.. what is the difference between breezy standard and edubuntu?
<BeanDip> howdy folks
<BeanDip> having a problem here
<BeanDip> I installed ubuntu breezy server
<BeanDip> installed ltsp following the wiki guide
<BeanDip> I get booted up to a xdm login screen
<BeanDip> but I can't login with any of my server's user accounts
<highvoltage> heh
<juliux> hi
<highvoltage> hu juliux 
<juliux> we lost our chanserv
<highvoltage> freenode in a stat of chaos
<juliux> no not freenode
<juliux> its level3
<juliux> http://scoreboard.keynote.com/Scoreboard/Main.aspx
<highvoltage> ok
<berlinux> hi
<berlinux> ogra, awake already?
<ogra> tsk... missed them...
<highvoltage> I love Ubuntu!
<ogra> we all do :)
<ogra> but i love edubuntu more :P
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> i love edubuntu and ubuntu equally.
<highvoltage> okay okay, i'm lying. i like edubuntu more too :)
<JaneW> ogra: cool ->   11:00  Mighty Edubuntu - Ubuntu for Kids and Schools
<JaneW>          Oliver Grawert
<ogra> love day ? 
<highvoltage> oh yes, i started putting the python pages together: http://www.ossn.co.za/edubuntu/6/index.py?tour
<highvoltage> if you click on the images now you get it in an edubuntu page, instead of just a image.
<juliux> ogra, the edubuntu server will be in Essen
<juliux> ogra, i have bought my ticket today
<ogra> great ... 
<juliux> ogra, i travel 15h with the train
<ogra> gah
<juliux> ogra, both ways
<juliux> ogra, i will have enough time to read my university stuff
<ogra> heh
<bluefrog-10> ogra can't talk right now cause am going to eat but i'd like to have a chat with u later on if possible about samba-ldap edubuntu. (not asking questions but hopefully helping you on that, i don't know how far advanced you are on that project)
<ogra> not far yet, every help appreciated :-D
<ogra> highvoltage, the ooo2 pics are missing
<ogra> (the zoomed ones)
<bluefrog-10> k c ya later have done a good job (well for my skills which are not high...). have to test it from scratch again to see if it works straight that time.
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'll sort it out.
<highvoltage> apt-cache is broken. if i type apt-cache search quake4 it returns nothing :)
<ogra> highvoltage, doom3 isnt found either :/
<ogra> as well as doom4 :)
<ogra> or 5 
* JaneW has a headache
<ogra> JaneW, relax a bit... go sleeping...
<ajmitch_> hi ogra, juliux 
<ajmitch_> s/juliux/janew/
<ogra> hey ajmitch_ 
<ajmitch_> silly tab complete :)
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> ogra - I'd love to!
<ajmitch_> too busy?
<ogra> just do it ... or is your schedule to stuffed ? 
<JaneW> I'm at the office mainly...
<JaneW> and have stuff to do
<JaneW> and have to give chmj a lift home (but maybe we can leave a little early)
<JaneW> nobody has a proposal on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuShippingPlans yet... so it's unlikely we'll be printing CDs :/
<JaneW> ogra: was there any conclusion to that distro discussion? I didn't get a single direct answer...
<ogra> JaneW, yes, there wont be a distinction
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<highvoltage> weekend. must. come.... now....
<ogra> pfft... 
<ogra> its not even 2pm here ....
<JaneW> highvoltage: ditto
<JaneW> highvoltage:  where's that joy from yesterday - I need some...
<ajmitch_> hm
<ajmitch_> 1am sat morning here
* ajmitch_ had better get to sleep, expecting a phone call at 9 :)
<JaneW> night :)
<ogra> sleep well ajmitch_ 
<ajmitch_> night
<ogra> Yagisan, here ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: yeah
<ogra> i have a breezy user who cant boot his clients from floppy...
<Yagisan> rather stressed though - have uni assignment due in 45 minutes and I started it today =-O
<ogra> he seems to use a .zdsk...
<Yagisan> yep - go on
<ogra> i guess he rather needs .zpxe ?
<Yagisan> .zdsk is a raw floppy image
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and plain etherboot as i understand it
<Yagisan> my guess is tha either a) he did tick to put a pxe stack on the floppy
<Yagisan> s/did/did not/
<Yagisan> b) his floppy isn't working
<Yagisan> c) he picked the wrong driver
<ogra> they were working with redhat he says
<ogra> (he's in #ltsp)
<Yagisan> ogra: I'll join in half a sec
<ogra> edubuntu on its first fair :) -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/berlinux/DSCN9044.JPG
<ogra> JaneW ^^
<JaneW> ogra: COOL
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> nice pic
<juliux> strange why i dont know anything that ubuntu is there ?
<ogra> are you active in the berlin LUG ?
<juliux> ogra, now but i do the fair work for germany
<juliux> s/germany/ubuntu in germany
<ogra> thats organized by the LUG
<juliux> ogra, thats right but we, jrg and I do manage that ubuntu have a both on this fairs
<ogra> this time the LUG managed it internally, whats wrong ?
* highvoltage join's #ltsp too
<highvoltage> ogra: how's berlin lug?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i'm not there... thats doko
* highvoltage just had a burstout to the new tuxlab manager
<highvoltage> he kept on talking about how great ms project is.
<highvoltage> i just couldn't take it anymore.
<ogra> there is no matching software in linux yet... so he might be right...
<highvoltage> it's not about linux.
<highvoltage> it's about me, not having to hear what he's using.
<highvoltage> what he does in his computer is his choice, but i don't have to hear about it.
<ogra> true :)
* highvoltage needs to learn how to react less violently when people refer to MS in a good way (not the Mark Shuttleworth MS, the other one)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I find projectile vomiting on people stops them from saying how wonderful MS software is :)
<highvoltage> Yagisan: i'll practice that, thanks, that's good advice
<ogra> eek
<highvoltage> my word. our wiki pages are in a bigger mess than i thought.
<highvoltage> according to our wiki frontpage, all the docs are here: http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/debian.jpg
<highvoltage> pgg... wrong link :)
<highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<highvoltage> StepByStepLtspSetup on that page is far outdated, and i think there are lots of pages missing.
<highvoltage> (pages that exist that's not listed)
<ogra> woah, what a pic
<ogra> so wipe it ...
<highvoltage> and wiki.edubuntu.org should link to /EdubuntuWiki
<highvoltage> yes, i will
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know what the decision was from the docteam? I think I heard they discussed whether they should cover the 'other' distros such as edubuntu and kubuntu as well.
<highvoltage> pity jsgotango isn't here.
<ogra> no idea, but we tarted for motu to make all docs /MOTU/Teams /MOTU/Blah etc
<Yagisan> ogra: in current ltsp - swap over nbd isn't possible yet is it ?
<ogra> i thought it is...
<Yagisan> ogra: It's not set up that way by default ? no config files for the client
<Yagisan> to tell it to use a swap file on the server
<ogra> ah, ok.. i have to discuss that with mdz
<highvoltage> have a good weekend, #edubuntu.
* magnon is well placed in NY
<ogra> cool
<ogra> magnon, what do you do there ? 
<magnon> waiting to go to Montreal ;)
<magnon> visiting a friend first
<ogra> ah, nice
<magnon> nice enough now
<ogra> when will you arrive in .ca ?
<magnon> on Saturday
<magnon> hm
<magnon> or was it Friday
<magnon> the 28th, which is Friday
<enyc> 0000
<magnon> I'll have to remember handing in the little visa waiver form stub to the canadians
<magnon> they almost didn't let me into the country because I didn't know the exact house number here
<Yagisan> woohoo - assignment in with 60 seconds to spare :)
<doko> hi ogra
<ogra> hey doko
* ogra greets the new edubuntu promotion team
<doko> well, the edubuntu desktop looks really more interesting than the ubuntu desktop :-)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> people already called me "racist" because of the wallpaper :)
<ogra> (did you note the girl is "only white" !)
<ogra> (and i'm not joking)
<Yagisan> ogra: it's racist to discriminate against white girls too
<Yagisan> ogra: and that girl is clearly yellow
<Yagisan> ogra: someone should recalibrate their monitor
<ogra> depends, on my laptop screen it appears white :)
<ogra> cant calibrate
<ogra> only brightness
<Yagisan> ogra: I admit, a really pale shade of yellow, but it is yellow
<ogra> ext release we'll make her blue and nobody can complain :)
<Yagisan> ogra: that's racist - what about all the green people :-P
<ogra> damned, you areright... and the violet ones
<vmarks> the green ones are soylent anyway
<ogra> lol
<Yagisan> ogra: then we have to contend with the sexist comments
<ogra> Yagisan, oh yes... we'll need a crowd with all colours and genders as wallpaper next release i guess ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: then we need everything from fetuses to corpses so we don't get accused of age bias
<ogra> we only target 6-18 :)
<ogra> (6-16 imho)
<Yagisan> yes - put we have to be "politically correct" don't we
<Yagisan> then we need gays and straights
<Yagisan> and then the transgenders
<Yagisan> or we could go with a picture of say puppys
<Yagisan> and all the pc bullshit can go out the window
<ogra> oh god, the schools will kill me... gays and straights on a school wallpaper :) probably pic of christoper street day 
<ogra> i think we'll go completely without animals and humans next time :)
<ogra> abstract and colourful
<Yagisan> I think we should be really controversial, I say go the goatse man - that will get us lots of attention :-P
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> if that's too controversial, we could go with the censored version :)
<ogra> we could just reuse the warty calendar artwork and tinit it in different colors :)
<Yagisan> seriously, are the pc whingers are that big of a problem ?
<ogra> not really... but it made some trouble after release
<Yagisan> I really don't understand their issues, and I'm White, my Wife is Yellow, and my little girl is Coffee
<Yagisan> so I'd be in tune with real racist issues
<Yagisan> yet I really can't see the issue with a pastel coloured girl wallpaper
<ogra> me neither... 
<ogra> but some people always find something to complain
<jeffbuntu> Hi, you give me some advice last wednesday (pseudo jeffc)
<ogra> yup
<jeffbuntu> today i made a new fresh install to test
<Yagisan> If I did, I wouldn't remember - I'm bad with names
<jeffbuntu> all the install go ok, but 
<jeffbuntu> the mouse doesn't work on terminal(s)
<jeffbuntu> and i don't find some lts.conf
<Yagisan> sounds like psmouse isn't loaded
<ogra> jeffbuntu, that was a serial mouse, right ? 
<jeffbuntu> no ps2
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> that should work...
<jeffbuntu> is there some config file to adjust? like lts.conf
<ogra> try setting a root password for the thin client:
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> then switch to console on the client and log in as root... 
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: are all systems ps2 mice ?
<ogra> (ctrl-alt-f1)
<jeffbuntu> the two i have try
<ogra> and look if the psmouse module is loaded
<jeffbuntu> i see
<ogra> the keyboard works ? 
<jeffbuntu> yes
<ogra> if you cant find it with: lsmod|grep psmouse
<ogra> add the word psmouse to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/modules
<ogra> its a bit strange since mousedev should pull in psmouse
<ogra> and mousedev is hardcoded in this file
<ogra> after you are done, dont forget to lock the root pw: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -l (on the server)
<jeffbuntu> i've reboot the terminal, and it say login incorrect (with root)
<jeffbuntu> i don't reboot the server
<ogra> on the console ?
<ogra> that should work...
<ogra> are you sure the password is right? 
<ogra> (no need to reboot anything)
<jeffbuntu> i try with another password
<jeffbuntu> with "toto" no problem, but the grep wtih "mouse" show only mousedev
<ogra> try modprobe psmouse
<ogra> switch to ctrl-alt-f7 and hit ctrl-alt-backspace to restart X... see if it works
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: how did it go ?
<jeffbuntu> i see in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/modules and there is only one module : mousedev
<ogra> yes, thats ok...
<ogra> it normally triggers a hotplug event that loads psmouse
<jeffbuntu> it's okay with the modprobe
<ogra> but if the modprobe works, you should add it to that file
<ogra> then te hotplug event has a race condition or something else is wrong... 
<ogra> you are the second person that had this prob, so i'll have to investigate a bit more why it doesnt get loaded for some people ...
<ogra> it definately works here :/
<jeffbuntu> i can give you my "dmesg"
<ogra> yes, can you mail it to ogra@ubuntu.com ? i'll archive it for further investigtion :)
<jeffbuntu> it's gone, i've to use an old floppy to copy the file from the terminal to my pc
<ogra> ok... i'll have to investigate anyway... dont make o much hassle there
<jeffbuntu> I've a subsidiary question, is there a simple method to re-use the account of users when you change of linux distribution (with a home partition on another partition) ?
<ogra> sure
<jeffbuntu> yes ;)
<ogra> just make sure the ID is the same....
<jeffbuntu> re create the users with the same id it's that
<ogra> yes
<jeffbuntu> what's about "rights" and passwords ?
<ogra> i'd set the passwords with the tool the distro uses...
<ogra> the rights will apply as they did before
<ogra> the only important thing is that the ID matches 
<mhz> moin
<Yagisan> G'day mhz - been waiting ages for you
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> didn't see you at all yesterday
<mhz> Yagisan: Victor Moral got back to work today.
<mhz> I'll have a tech meeting with him at 15:40 today
<jeffbuntu> okay, thanks a lot and good week-end in your country (mine is France as you devine with my poor english ;) )
<mhz> Yagisan: yep, I've been making phone calls for the EdubunTour
<Yagisan> mhz: the suspense is killing my wife
<mhz> hehehe
<Yagisan> no worries jeffbuntu
<Yagisan> mhz - she keeps asking - do you have an email yet ?
<mhz> please do not have great expectations. Even if the gang says "yes", we'll still gotta make biz plans
<mhz> ogra: what do you prefer better? EdubunTour or Edubuntu Chilean Tour ?
<Yagisan> mhz: I know - but it allows all of us to make plans (preferably to our mutual benefit)
<ogra> we already have a website called edubuntu tour ... so chilenian might be better
<mhz> Yagisan: booting/ do you if it is possible to have a CD for multiple types of netcard machines to boot from?
<mhz> ogra: oh, i see
<Yagisan> mhz: no (far too many pc's do not support multi-boot el-torito to make it practical)
<mhz> however, I hope you see the 'Edubun_Tour' game
<mhz> Yagisan: so, a floppy for each machine?
<mhz> Yagisan: i mean, if i have 30 machines that do not boot from eth0, then, i'll have to make a floppy for each?
<ogra> mhz, you could run around with one floppy everytime you boot :p
<ogra> this also keeps the network load low if you only boot a client at a time :)
<Yagisan> mhz: you need one for each different type of nic
<ogra> might take ages though
<mhz> :(
<mhz> tsktsktsktsk
* mhz would like to have enough money to go to China, buy 1000 units of 10inches laptops that boot from nic (each laptop could be sold for U$280 
<Yagisan> mhz: you just need a few cd's for the most common nics
<mhz> ok, I see
<Yagisan> mhz: can I get you to fix something on the wiki
<Yagisan> mhz: I'd like to send you some documentation to put on the wiki
<mhz> of course
<mhz> np
<Yagisan> mhz: and make it look nice
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> np
<Yagisan> mhz: A cleaned up etherboot howto
<mhz> ok, do you want me to replace if for another existing page? or new page?
<Yagisan> mhz: Replace the existing page (my irc chat)
<mhz> okidoki
<Yagisan> mhz: it's this page http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientWithoutPxe
<mhz> ogra: i cant get to edubuntu tour page
<ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/tour.html
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> i was looking up at the wiki :)
<mhz> Yagisan: please check the url and tell me what you think
<mhz> (pxe wiki)
* mhz is on his way to the office
* mhz BBL
<Yagisan> ogra: Check out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<Yagisan> mhz did a nice update of my howto :)
<Yagisan> That looks really nice considering I sent him a .txt file
<ogra> cool
<Yagisan> ogra: I didn't cover the bios mod or hard disk boot methods to save on support issues
<ogra> that didnt occur yet...
<ogra> lest see if we get any requests for it at all
<Yagisan> ogra: I've done all 4 methods
<ogra> sure, but unless someone asks, why should we bother :)
<Yagisan> on a reasonably modern system the bios mod is the most convienient
<Yagisan> but I killed a perfectly good p2 doing one
<ogra> on a reasonably modern system you most likely have PXE ;)
<Yagisan> one could only wish .... 
<clandestino> Is there any way to use a Sun UltraSparc as a thin client?
<Yagisan> clandestino: at the moment no
<Yagisan> clandestino: but if/when ubuntu is on sparc, and if qemu supports sparc enough to set up a client
<Yagisan> clandestino: I'll look at adding support for it to ubuntus ltsp.
<clandestino> That would be very nice of you.
<Yagisan> clandestino: I recently tried to add ppc client support (with either i386 or amd64 as the server) but that didn't go too
<Yagisan> well as qemu didn't support enough ppc
<Yagisan> clandestino: sadly I don't see it happening soon, but I'd add it when it is possible
<Yagisan> anyway I should go to bed now - it's 4:30am! 
<Yagisan> night all
<bluefrog-10> hi Is there a command to know what encryption is used by ubuntu pls?
<crimsun> encryption in what sense?
<bluefrog-10> used for passwords. MD5 SSHA...
<bluefrog-10> the passwords we use to log in
<crimsun> more /etc/pam.d/common-password
<bluefrog-10> oh ok ty
<crimsun> np
<ajmitch__> ogra: ping?
#edubuntu 2005-10-27
<deang> What would you recommend for minimum system requirements for a Edubuntu lts client?
<_aaron> Is it natural that you can't use sudo if you haven't configured your machine's IP address?
<_aaron> Anyone?
<mhz> moin y'all
<ianu> hello?
<ianu> is anyway here?
<ianu> *anyone
<juliux> ogra, ping
<sven-tek> ogra, Dipl. Ing. H. Huller will also be at "Linux Tage in Essen"
<sven-tek> he will show arktur 
<\sh> when are the linux tage in essen? 
<juliux> \sh, first weekend in december
<juliux> \sh, i am also there
<\sh> juliux: k...
<jsgotangco> hey all
<ogra> moin jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey ogra how's it going?
<ogra> fie, training my IRC skills (doing support in #ubuntu)
<ogra> *fine even
<jsgotangco> ahh i should go there #kubuntu is quite silent
<ogra> heh
* Yagisan waves at the support masochists
<ogra> lol
<Yagisan> I tried doing support in #ubuntu
<Yagisan> I tired very quickly of the people that kept whinging and didn't follow instructions
<ogra> its a very good training for nerves and typing speed ;)
<Yagisan> it reminded me of an old job too much
<Yagisan> the painful memories of being front line tech support
<ogra> sometinmes i like to remember this... :)
<jsgotangco> ahhh if my typing skills can only be monetized :)
<Yagisan> what I feel like doing next time someone tells me their "drink holder" is broken http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/images/doom2-036.jpg
<juliux> ogra, it is for you ok when i make a edubuntu/ubuntu workshop in essen?
<ogra> juliux, sure
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> ogra, they try to get people from schools at the fair and for a workshop
<ogra> cool
<juliux> ogra, at wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messen/UDMS i document what i do with my edubuntu installation
<ogra> juliux, looks good... note that only newer laptops will support PXE boot... you should prepare some rom-o-matic generated floppies as well :)
<ogra> at least for the most general NICs
<juliux> ogra, i will try to do that via a cd or usb sticks
<ogra> yes...
<juliux> my idea is that you have on cd with all rom-o-matic images 
<juliux> but this is only an idea
<ogra> how do you want to select the right one ? you'd need to write some kind of bootmenu for that
<juliux> ogra, i know
<juliux> ogra, but i am not a developer
<juliux> ogra, but isn't possible that you have a very long bootmenu and you have to select the right image manual
<Yagisan> juliux: you can't make a boot cd with all rom-o-matic images
<juliux> Yagisan, why?
<juliux> Yagisan, i can also use a dvd
<Yagisan> juliux: you need the pc to support the multi-boot el-torito standard
<Yagisan> juliux: almost no pc's support it
<juliux> Yagisan, hm
<Yagisan> juliux: they only support the regular el-torito standard for single boot cds
<juliux> Yagisan, but i when i have a livecd i can also select what image should boot
<Yagisan> juliux: perhaps a "live linux" cd with a long grub list and .zlilo 
<juliux> Yagisan, yes this was my idea
<juliux> Yagisan, but i think that i can do that alone
<juliux> ups there is a not missing
<Yagisan> juliux: got a cd that can easily be customised ?
<juliux> Yagisan, what do you mean?
<Yagisan> juliux: a live cd that you can add the images too ? (without too much effort)
<juliux> Yagisan, ok that is a very good idea
<juliux> Yagisan, i will search in the web
<Yagisan> juliux: I'd suggest ubuntu - but they seem to be mission documentation on how to remaster cds
<juliux> Yagisan, thank you for your help
<juliux> Yagisan, i have a howto for remastering live cds
<Yagisan> juliux: ogra did a remaster for edubuntu - lets bug him :)
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> i didnt :)
<Yagisan> juliux: you do ? - could I have a link
<juliux> Yagisan, moment
<ogra> but there is a very good howto on the wiki how to remaster a liveCD
<ogra> but that doesnt involve the bootprocess... there you'd need decent d-i knowledge
* Yagisan might be blind - I didn't see one when I checked
* Yagisan wants to build a pro-active security proof-of-concept cd
<Yagisan> ogra: have a step by step guide for d-i ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i guess you have to learn it the hard way :) 
<ogra> but yu can bug Kamion about it
<juliux> Yagisan, there was one on the german gnome site but i didn't find it
<Yagisan> juliux: It's ok - thanks for checking for me
<juliux> Yagisan, np
<Yagisan> ogra: isn't blender an opengl app ?
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> ogra: blah - again google with incorrect info
<ogra> its a wireframe design program ... OpenGL is only needed for the resulting work
<ogra> blendr doesnt render anything on its own... you have to use a tool like povray
<Yagisan> oh
<Yagisan> any edubuntu apps opengl ?
<ogra> nope... not by default
<ogra> it eats hilarious amounts of bandwith
* Yagisan knows
* Yagisan is trying to get his favorite opengl apps working
<Yagisan> It looks like a slideshow when I try to run opengl
<Yagisan> nothing at all seems to be rendered client side
<Yagisan> I think it renders it on the server, then just sends a bitmap of the rendered
<Yagisan> work to the client
<Yagisan> makes it hard to test http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/doomsday.en.html
<pupil> Strangest thing keeps happpening to me,. everytime my thin client logs in,.. my .ICEauthority file ownership changes to root.. whereby if I restart my window manger on terminal server, I can't login
<strusberg> Is it somebody in the edubuntu community working in a spanish version?. Because I would like work (or begin) that project.
<steffen> Does anyone knows several webpages or online software (java)  for grammar school children?
#edubuntu 2005-10-28
<sector10> hi
<sector10> can someone help me?
<sector10> i am installing ubuntu, but would like to setup my daughter who is 10 for edubuntu on same computer
<sector10> is it possible to have her log in to edubuntu  
<sector10> #ubuntu
<fersfeir> mono
<Burgundavia> ogra, http://gnutu.org/en/index.php/Strona_g%C5%82%C3%B3wna
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, you here?
<juliux> ogra, wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messen/UDMS my script is ready
<juliux> ogra, and it works
<steffen> I'll need to teach some grammar-school children. Theme is konquering the computer and search in the internet.
<steffen> Unfortunately I never done such things with small children
<steffen> question is: does someone know an website with some ideas and experiences?
<juliux> it there any log file from the ldm ?
<aeon17x> Something weird here... I can't mount the floppy by double-clicking on the icon within the Computer. It works fine in normal Ubuntu, but not here.
<lemoncake> hi
<lemoncake> i am installing edubuntu on my pc
<lemoncake> but
<lemoncake> when the setup search for a ethernet card it doesn't find 
<lemoncake> why??
<ogra> lemoncake, how do you mean it doesnt find your network card ? whats the error ? 
* P3L|C4N0 brb
<mhz> moin y'all
#edubuntu 2005-10-29
* mhz Listens to Therion/ Black Sun Draconian
<crimsun> Vovin was a great album
<mhz> crimsun: indeed
<Velmont> First the wiki-installation-notes page says it installs an LTSP THIN client by default, but then you go on saying you install an LTSP SERVER by default (by just pressing <enter>)? :o How is it really?
<juliux> it install a ltsp server
<juliux> if you have the edubuntu install cd
<Velmont> juliux: How can I install an ltsp client than? - I've got that CD (Well, 98% finished now)
<juliux> Velmont, you didn't need to install the client
<juliux> Velmont, the client boots via pxe 
<juliux> Velmont, if the client pxe don't support you need a image from here http://www.rom-o-matic.net/
<Velmont> Cool :]  I'll try when I've got the server up.
<juliux> Velmont, it works here very good
<juliux> Velmont, as client you can use diskless computers
<Tode> hi there
<Tode> any french people in there?
<Tode> Ok
<Tode> I'm working for a company which makes IWB (Interactive White Board)
<Tode> Our products work on Window$, Mac, but not on Linux
<ogra> Tode, some of the gcomris folks are around form time to time...
<ogra> *gcompris
<Tode> I've been told that if I want to develop a driver for Linux, maybe people from Edubuntu should be interested...
<ogra> Tode, indeed....
<Tode> gcompris, the software
<Tode> ?
<Tode> all right
<ogra> yup...
<Tode> thanks ogr
<Tode> ogra
<ogra> main development based in france :)
<Tode> that's good news !
<Tode> :)
<ogra> Tode, but we use ubuntu underneath, so we dont do kernel or driver developmnt... i can get you in contact with the right people if you like :)
<Tode> it'd be very nice orga!
<ogra> our ubuntu main kernel developers are fabbione and BenC, you'll find them in #ubuntu-kernel or #ubuntu-devel regulary... 
<Tode> great!
<Tode> thanks a lot :) :)
<ogra> fabbione@canonical.com and ben.collins@ubuntu.com ;)
<Tode> :)
<Tode> u rulez !!
<ogra> note that ou conference starts end ov the week in canada, i dont know when they'll be travelling :)
<Tode> ok
<ogra> so they might be a bit unresponsive currently ...
<Tode> all right
<Velmont> Do they allow you to make a GPL'd driver?
<Tode> I'm working on it ;)
<Tode> actually
<Tode> as I want to develop something for Linux
<Tode> it HAVE to be a GPL stuff
<Tode> you know what I mean ?
<Velmont> To be included, yes. :)
<Tode> :)
<ogra> ...even if we prefer GPLed drivers, ubuntu also ships nonfre stuff (see ati and nvidia) as long as its under a redistributable license...
<Velmont> That would be nice. I work at a school, we've got loads of "SMARTboards"... Maybe a competitor?
<ogra> but a real GPL driver would be incredible cool :)
<Tode> Smartstuff... oh my
<Tode> yeah, I'm a competitor
<Tode> ;)
<Velmont> Hihi ;) Good, do better. :D
<Tode> ogra --> GPL or nothing ;)
<ogra> cool :)
<Tode> Velmont --> my product is better from far
<Tode> :)
<Velmont> Ok ;) I don't like SMARTboards, I have to install them on Win98, which is a pain in the arse.
<Tode> Velmont --> where are your school? 
<Tode> oh my... where is
<Tode> lol
<Tode> Win98... wow...
<Velmont> Tode: Norway. :) Students 16-19 years old.
<Tode> old students aren't they?
<Tode> ;)
<Velmont> College, maybe that's the name :] 
<Tode> mmhhh
<Tode> in France, the name is Lyce
<Tode> ;)
<Velmont> Yep :) I know ;)
<Tode> you know?
<ogra> Velmont, you asked about the <enter> earlier .... if you dont hit any key, the CD wont just start installing ;)
<Velmont> ogra: Hehe, I tried :) It's installing. 
<ogra> so <enter> with no input gives you the default :)
<Velmont> Tode: I have a french friend. I'm in france every second year, or more.
<ogra> Velmont, great to see that there are people actually reading the istall notes *before* installing, we normally have the opposite here :) 
<Velmont> ogra: Although I didn't really understand them 100% ;)
<ogra> ask away if you got questions :)
<Velmont> Hehe, I understood it now. -- My problem was that I didn't know how to "install" the clients... :)
<Tode> Velmont --> ok! So you speak french? ;)
<ogra> Velmont, you just boot them via PXE :) no install needed
<Velmont> Tode: Hehe, no :) I understand some parts of the conversations. But want to learn it better; but, no time :p Should just move down a summer or something :P
<Velmont> ogra: Yep, juliux told me, - I understood now ;] 
<ogra> good :)
<Tode> Velmont --> French is not easy to learn, but I think "Norvegien" is even harder !!
<Velmont> Tode: My french friend and his brother is learning Norwegian :p His brother is better in Norwegian than I'm in French after 4 years at school.
<Tode> Velmont --> no way...! Really? I'm impressed... I know a guy who went to Norway because his girlfriend is from this country. He told me he couldn't understand a think even after few months... :(
<Tode> but he told me too that girls are beautiful in this country... ;)
<Velmont> Tode: They always say that ;]  The french that is :) ~ But that family is half french/half german. So they know both native french and german, and they're both very good in English. So they took Norwegian pretty easily :)
<Tode> Velmont --> ;)  It's amazing... everywhere in Europe, a lot of people speak english but in France, we suck...
<Tode> how long to install edubuntu ?
<ogra> that depends on your CD drive indeed... the default install takes about an hour, the workstation ~40min here
<Tode> ogra --> ok. I got the Ubuntu C, not the Edubuntu... I could install the softwares regarding the education later ?
<ogra> Tode, if you only want the wrokstation version, thats easy... just install edubuntu-desktop on top... for the ltsp version (classroom server which is the default) you have to do some manual work since the ltsp setup happens from the installer...
<Tode> Ogra --> yeah I want just the workstation. edubuntu-desktop... it's like a patch to install after ubuntu? sorry, I'm such a lame on this... I used to get RedHat... (noo, don't ban me please!!! ;) )
<ogra> lol
<ogra> its installing all the edu apps and the branding (edubuntu-artwork) on top of ubuntu...
<ogra> Tode, fabbione seems active on #ubuntu-devel ...
<Tode> ogra --> yeah I contact him in private, but he seems a little busy...
<Tode> he told me to let a message on -kernel, what I did
<ogra> ah, fine
<Velmont> [There is already a dhcp-server here at school; so I don't want the edubuntu ltsp-server to be one, is that even possible? Won't PXE work without?
<ogra> Velmont, look at the wiring wikipage... there isa setup with two NICs ...
<Velmont> ogra: Yep, - saw that one, but I don't want them connected like that either :p
<ogra> attach one of them to the normal dhcp served network and dedicate one to the thin clients that runs its own server
<ogra> you dont need to set up NAT between the NICs :O)
<Velmont> ogra: Ok, so you NEED to have it dhcp-ed from the ltsp?
<Velmont> So no need for me to even try?
<ogra> nope, but setting it up different is a lot of fiddling... 
<Velmont> (these computers are 200m away from here, so putting up a cable between them is hard, im just using the schools net ;] )
<ogra> you need to know a lot about dhcpd configuration... the easier way is to add a second NIC post install and to attach this one to the normal net
<ogra> there is no NAT needed ....
<Velmont> Mkay. -- I'll try w/o internet and grab a client later than. Cant test right now. 
<Reboot_me> Hi. I'm doing research for a public school here in denmark, and was wondering if schooltools have been translated into danish?
<ogra> have you looked at www.schooltool.org ? 
<Reboot_me> ok, will do. thx
<Reboot_me> I think I will have to translate ST myself. :)
<ogra> Reboot_me, i'm not sure if its in rosetta yet, if not, you should poke the guys on #launchpad to make it available for easy translation
<Reboot_me> Rosetta Translation Overview for SchoolBell is 79.91% finished
<Reboot_me> Schooltool not started yet
<Reboot_me> I got my answer, thx for your help
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<linescanner> ogra: you well ?
<ogra> yup....
<linescanner> got a minute ?
<ogra> quite busy packing my bags and doing all stuff i need to do before the conference
<ogra> a minute ? sure ...
<linescanner> More general ltsp than edubuntu
<linescanner> you tried hp t5125 thin clients ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> whats the prob with them ? 
<linescanner> they appear to have via video cards but the only way to get them to work is to set X_MOUSE_DEV to /dev/input/mice
<linescanner> then they work but are unstable
<linescanner> any ideas ?
<ogra> did you try /dev/pasaux and have the chroot loading psmouse ? 
<linescanner> tried /dev/psaux and it fails
<ogra> you confirmed the module is loaded ? 
<linescanner> how do i check ?
<ogra> lo in on console on the thin client and run lsmod for example
<ogra> or check /opt/ltsp/etc7modules
<linescanner> just going to look
<ogra> err... /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/modules indeed :)
<linescanner> cannot get to a console on the thin
<ogra> oh, why ? 
<linescanner> ???????????????????
<ogra> you are running ubuntu ltsp ? 
<linescanner> no standard
<ogra> you should be able to switch to console 
<ogra> oh, ok...
<ogra> no real experience over here with legacy ltsp
<linescanner> ahh.  I shall not trouble you further :)
<ogra> i'm good at guessing though :)
<linescanner> :)
<linescanner> got a shell on the thin now
<ogra> lsmod ?
<linescanner> needed to revert back to /dev/input/mice
<ogra> should show you something like psmouse and mousedev
<linescanner> got mousedev
<ogra> cat /etc/modules 
<ogra> is psmouse in there ? 
<linescanner> no such file
<ogra> try to create it on the server in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/modules and add psmouse to it...
<ogra> then reboot the client with /dev/pmouse for the input device and see if it works
<linescanner> is that in ......etc/modules.conf ?
<ogra> nope, just /etc/modules in the chroot
<ogra> should work since kernel 2.0 ... you force the loading of that module
<linescanner> where does legacy ltsp set the chroot ?#
<ogra> not in /opt/ltsp ?
<ogra> probably /lts or /ltsp ?
<linescanner> I may be being dumb but I can't find it
<ogra> hmm... it must be somewhere, else your client wouldnt boot :)
<linescanner> I have the ltsp root at /opt/ltsp
<linescanner> I have had a blond moment
<ogra> ah, fine... then look for etc/modules in there, if it doesnt exist, just create it...
<linescanner> I have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc it has modules.conf
<ogra> not modules.conf just modules
<linescanner> touch modules yes
<ogra> modules.conf is for giving options to the modules
<ogra> add psmouse to thus file, try to boot with /dev/psmouse in your lts.conf and see if it works then
<ogra> if not, it was at least worth the try :)
<linescanner> just rebootin
<Tode_> ogra --> I'm installing Ubuntu.. I'm so excited !!! :D
<ogra> :)
<linescanner> ogra:  server failed :(
<ogra> :(
<ogra> then revert the change again
<ogra> (remove the etc/modules file and change lts.conf back)
<linescanner> done
<linescanner> got a login screen but ith some noise on it
<ogra> noise ? 
<linescanner> and a black square in the middle
<linescanner> noise as in lines across
<linescanner> mouse is usb by the way
<ogra> err... oh...
<ogra> then the effort was useless, sorry, i should hae asked earlier
<linescanner> my fault.......sorry
<ogra> lets agree its our both fault :)
<linescanner> :) sound fair
<linescanner> once logged in it looks fine, but when I ope star office it goes bad
<linescanner> it works fiine untl I maximize the star office window
<linescanner> it just locks with a load of screen corruption
<ogra> doesnt sound like a mouse prob...
<linescanner> I am at a loss.  The unit two models up works fine
<linescanner> The specs look the same with just a slower proc
<linescanner> I will check the spec to see if thevideo caqrd is different
<linescanner> other units have ati chips
<Tode_> install finished
<Tode_> :)
<ogra> yay
<Tode_> now i got to find the edubuntu  desktop stuff
<Tode_> ;)
<ogra> its in the online repository....
<ogra> just run sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<linescanner> it looks like a video issue.  Auto detect works and then it locks :(
<Tode_> oh my... my network doesn't work... lol
<Tode_> ok good start then
<Tode_> ;)
<Tode_> btw, what is the online repository ogra?
<ogra> arhive.ubuntu.com
<ogra> *archive
<ogra> its automatically enabled at install time
<Tode_> gotcha
<Tode_> it wasn't active (the connection eth0)
<ogra> ah, ok
<linescanner> ogra: thanks for your help.  I am just off to smash this thin client to bits :)
<ogra> nah... beating the HW wont solve it :)
<linescanner> make me feel better
<ogra> but its a bit expensive :)
<linescanner> clients hardware :)
<Tode_> ogra --> i don't understand what you meant by "just run sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop"
<Tode_> ogra --> but there is an "installer" 
<Tode_> ogra --> where i can choose what i want to install... it's great! :)
<ogra> yup :)
<ogra> apt-get install is the commandline equivalent :) 
<Tode_> ok, then i could type this in a term, couldn't I?
<ogra> yes, but if you already use the app installer, click on File->extended (german here... no idea how its called in other langs)
<ogra> (probably advanced :) )
<Tode_> i didn't use it yet
<Tode_> when i type apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<Tode_> i got a error message
<ogra> use sudo in front and give your user password :)
<Tode_> oh
<Tode_> this is why
<Tode_> ;)
<Tode_> impossible to find the paquet edubuntu-desktop...
<Tode_> lol
<Tode_> of course i didn't dowbnload it yet
<Tode_> lol
<ogra> oh, sudo apt-get update ... first then
<ogra> it should retrieve the package lists
<Tode_> ok, i try
<Tode_> sudo apt-get update done
<Tode_> but still the same error message : cant find the packet edubuntu-desktop...
<ogra> what did the update command show you ? 
<ogra> its should have retrieved the package lists for main and restricted
<ogra> Hole:12 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages [585kB] 
<ogra> should show up anywhere there (indeed in your language)
<Tode_> the update just show "reading the package.... Done"
<ogra> oh
<Tode_> only one line, this one...
<Tode_> strange isn't it?
<ogra> open the app installer again and go to the advanced feature
<ogra> this opens synaptic
<ogra> there you open "Settings->Package sources" and click on the add button in the popup window
<ogra> (i guess the popup window will only show your CD)
<Tode_> i'm in synaptics
<Tode_> but i can't find the Settings>Package sources in french... arghh
<ogra> its in the menu
<Tode_> i think i got it
<ogra> fourth menu from the left, second option
<Tode_> i got only the CD as u said
<ogra> click add
<Tode_> yup
<ogra> there is a pulldown showing Breezy ....
<Tode_> yeah
<ogra> and some checkboxes
<Tode_> yep
<ogra> mark the checkboxes
<ogra> click ok and you are done...
<Tode_> woohoo
<Tode_> u rocks
<Tode_> it's downloading stuff
<ogra> afterwards you can click the searchbutton and search for edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> then doubleclick the package and click the apply button (third one from the left in the button bar)
<Tode_> i've done the apt-get stuff
<Tode_> it's working
<Tode_> ;)
<ogra> ah, fine too
<Tode_> yeah, i prefer learn the term way first
<Tode_> ;)
<ogra> if its installed, log out and back in again on the desktop... you should have edubuntu then
<Tode_> it's still doing the installation
<Tode_> thanks a lot ogra, I owe u one
<Tode_> ;)
<ogra> nah, i'm happy about every new user ;)
<juliux> re
<ogra> thats the biggest gift yu can make :)
<Tode_> :)
<Tode_> now i'm on edubuntu :)
<ogra> yay
<Tode_> cool!
<Tode_> mmhhh...
<Tode_> maybe i'll install fvwm2 later... ;)
<Tode_> thanks again ogra
<ogra> lol
<Tode_> :)
<ogra> youre wecome
<Tode_> ;)
<juliux> Tode_, gnome rocks
<Tode_> hey!
<Tode_> right
<ogra> you can use fvwm2 with gnome ;)
<Tode_> that's the point! :)
<juliux> ogra, but it isn't very nice
<Tode_> why?
<Baldzius> hi
<ogra> might be, never tried it
<juliux> Tode_, is my opinion
<Baldzius> where i can get complete list of edubuntu packages?
<ogra> Baldzius, for the desktop: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<Tode_> juliux --> i saw screenshots of fvwm2, this is what i want! ;) but maybe i have to check themes of Gnome before installing fvwm2.......
<ogra> Baldzius, and the server: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<juliux> Tode_, this is a very good idea
<ogra> Baldzius, by default both are installed as http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes states
<Tode_> juliux --> ;)
<Baldzius> ogra thanks, i want to install edubuntu for my friend's kids and i need games as more as possible
<Baldzius> is edubuntu for me?
<ogra> Baldzius, sure :) 
<juliux> Baldzius, what kind of games?
<Baldzius> well i don't know there 5 kids
<Baldzius> oldest is 10y
<Baldzius> iirc
<ogra> Baldzius, but there are more games than the ones included, you might want to look additionally at childsplay etc
<ogra> Baldzius, http://www.edubuntu.org/tour.html might give a slight impression
<Yagisan> Baldzius: I can't recommend opengl based games - they go too slow over ltsp/edubuntu systems
<ogra> Baldzius, if you only want a standalone install, use the workstation install as outlined in the install notes
<Baldzius> no i don't need opengl games, the computer is quite old PII 350 iirc
<Baldzius> i just need a lot of games as more as possible :)
<ogra> make sure you have enough memeory then...
<Yagisan> Baldzius: they work fine in the "workstation" mode though
<Baldzius> 128
<ogra> 256 should be in, else it will be slow...
<ogra> its cheap to get some RAM on ebay for such old machines
<Yagisan> P2 350 isn't that old /me looks at my p2 233 and p2 300
<ogra> Yagisan, more than 5 years is old for a PC :)
<Yagisan> ogra: If it's still useful - (and in my case still generating a ROE) it's not too old
<ogra> i didnt say "too old" :)
<ogra> i run a PI 133 with 64 MB as router here.... it will still not be too old the next years :)
<Yagisan> I have a Cryrix 6x86 PR150+ (120MHz) still, but the fan is wearing out
<ogra> i bet it could run without :)
<Yagisan> It's a cyrix - it could fry an egg
<Tode_> juliux --> i found stuff on art.gnome.org
<ogra> take off the case
<Tode_> ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: you pc's have cases ?!??!
<ogra> the ones that are not in my workroom, yes :)
<ogra> else my GF would already have left because of the noise :)
<Yagisan> my wife doesn't like the noise either :(
<Baldzius> ok thanks i think i'll try edubuntu :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> Baldzius, if you got questions, just come back here :)
<Baldzius> :)
<Yagisan> she even complains^W expresses herself that the p2 300 I set up as a thin client for her is too noisy
<ogra> you should probably rip out the idling scsi drives ;)
<Yagisan> It has two ! moving parts - the cpu fan, and the power supply fan
<Yagisan> I don't have SCSI :(
<Yagisan> I do have a nice SATA/PATA 7200RPM RAID for mys desktop
<Yagisan> mmm 600GB RAID5
<ogra> i have one scsi machin... the only one where i never see the bootsplash because it takes a minute to probe all drives
<Yagisan> as soon as I get support for ite8212 ide controllers in the ubuntu installer I'll be a happy man
<ogra> Yagisan, patches are welcomed as usual ;)
<Yagisan> just add 2 more 200GB 7200RPM 8M Seagate Barracudas to my RAID 5 array
<Yagisan> ogra: kernel 2.6.13+ mainline
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> dapper then :)
<Yagisan> found it just a few days before the breezy release - it was just a bit too late to backport :(
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> with 5 disks I expect to fully saturate my pci bus, and have a nice ~120MB/s transfer rate :)
<highvoltage> ide pci bus saturation. that sounds so sweet.
<Yagisan> I only get ~90MB/s now (RAID0) or ~60MB/s (RAID5), but it still makes the Windows users jealous :)
<Yagisan> out of curiosity - what oversized beasts are you guys using as edubuntu/ltsp servers ?
<ogra> 900Mhz PIII 256MB ....
<ogra> really overized *g*
<Yagisan> 2Ghz Athlon64, 1.5GB, 600GB RAID5 here
<Yagisan> compared to my client systems - it's obscenely powerful
<vmarks> yow. I have a pIII 1ghz that I'd like to use as the ltsp server... but I haven't got it all sorted out yet.
<ogra> just put in as much mem as you can
<Yagisan> ogra: I'm trying, I've just run out of slots :-D
<Yagisan> vmarks: That box is 4 years of savings - (it also has a 6800LE in it) - it won't have an update (except for discs) until 2008/9
<Yagisan> or unless someone knocks it off and I can put an insurance claim in - whichever happens first
<Velmont> I "stole" one from my school, think it is 2,7ghz. :) But guess it needs more RAM, anyway, it's just for pure testing and fun :] 
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<Yagisan> G'day highvoltage
<highvoltage> how are things your side, Yagisan?
<Yagisan> not bad, I'm up late with my wife doing the false labour thing
<highvoltage> false labour!?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: yep - it's where the contractions start up in an irregular pattern, then stop
<highvoltage> she's having a baby? congratulations!
<Yagisan> highvoltage: thanks :) poor woman has to suffer for a few more weeks, second bub is due Nov 20
<Yagisan> highvoltage: when it happened with the first bub - that was freaky - I'd harrass^W speak to the hospital at the slightest contraction
<highvoltage> baby's are just too complicated for me too understand.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: ohh - you'll understand one day ;)
<highvoltage> Yagisan: how old are you?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: 23, I'll be 24 on the 27th
<highvoltage> cool. I'm 23 too.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I'm a very busy 23 year old (insert tired smiley here)
<highvoltage> me too, you have no idea.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: obligatory pimping of my website: http://www.eyagiconsulting.com
<highvoltage> i've seen it, you've sent the link to me before :)
<highvoltage> the question is, have you seen mine?
<highvoltage> http://www.jonathancarter.co.za
<highvoltage> although, mine is only a personal site, I don't have a business (yet)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I am now
<Yagisan> highvoltage: so busy, uni exams (and I haven't really studied), new baby, need customers, and nearest family is in Tokyo
<highvoltage> i must admit, i'm not as busy as i used to be.
<highvoltage> i left home when i was 12, and worked since then, i think i was at my busiest when i was 17
<highvoltage> that was tough times.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I was kicked out onto the street back in 1999 - that, to put it mildly, sucked
<Yagisan> highvoltage: no friends or family I could stay with :(
<highvoltage> seems like 17 was tough for both of us.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: looks like it. I learned a lot about how people really are after that
<Yagisan> highvoltage: most of them - they could not give a shit if you live or die.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: others - they try to take advantage of you - they like to kick you when you're down.
<highvoltage> yes.
<highvoltage> i've come across some very, very bad people.
<highvoltage> i think they've been my inspiration for being a good person, i feel i need to balance them out.
<highvoltage> fight all the evils of the world
<highvoltage> destroy the Gates', etc.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: sorry - brought up some bad memories
<highvoltage> Yagisan: sorry, didn't mean to do that.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: no worries, it happens occasionally.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: how was the edubuntu cake ?
<highvoltage> JaneW makes good cake.
<highvoltage> i can understand why her kids would make plans to steal it :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: you didn't make it to UDU did you ? I don't remember seeing you there
<highvoltage> no, i didn't.
<highvoltage> i'll make it down there one day, that I can promise you :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: obviously I won't be at UBZ, for good reasons (no money, and bub is due)
<highvoltage> me neither.
<highvoltage> same reasons minus bub :)
<Yagisan> :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I'm the ugly one
<highvoltage> my connection is too slow, i keep timing out while trying to view it (dodgy gprs connection)
<highvoltage> i'll look at it tomorrow :)
<\sh> highvoltage: my connection is fast...but the same result
* Yagisan goes to check the load on my firewall then
<\sh> overclock your linksys ,)
<highvoltage> hehe
<\sh> highvoltage: and I'm really jealous...that u had this good looking cake made by jane...
<Yagisan> It's an ubuntu breezy box
<Yagisan> agghhhhhhhhhh
<Yagisan> and it didn't run my traffic shaping script in /ppp/ip.up when my isp cycled me
<highvoltage> \sh: :) next time, i'll invite you to south africa and keep you a piece :)
<Yagisan> hopefully it won't time out now - but the png is 750K (should have made a .jpg instead)
<\sh> highvoltage: well...regarding the immigration laws in ZA...I need first a job to work and live in ZA..if u hear anything about a company who needs a good sysadmin/ops guy and linux fanatic..please give them my name and email address :)
* Yagisan is going for some beauty sleep now
<\sh> Yagisan: black coffee..makes u pretty as well :)
<highvoltage> \sh: i might be starting a business next year, so if i'll be able to afford it, i'll give you a call ;)
<Yagisan> \sh: my better half likes me without bloodshot eyes
<\sh> highvoltage: well...for the start I only need a job and a place to sleep...and some drinks and food...
<Yagisan> highvoltage: cost more then I thought starting up (advertising is what kills you)
<highvoltage> \sh: i wish we could always see it that way
<highvoltage> people just always want more.
<highvoltage> even linux knows that less is more ;)
<\sh> highvoltage: I had the adventure already of building up a company...2 years with a couple of bucks but 24h of work
<\sh> highvoltage: so I know what I
<\sh> argl...uk keyboard
<\sh> so i know what i'm doing :)
<Yagisan> \sh
<Yagisan> what went wrong ?
<\sh> Yagisan: nothing....I just met a girl...the company still exist
<highvoltage> :)
<Yagisan> ahh, women, they take up so much time
<highvoltage> when i have money, i'm going to start an organisation similar to "project mayhem" from the fight club movie.
<\sh> Yagisan: after 5 years and really 18h per day work...it was time to concentrate on something else then cisco routers and computers
* Yagisan understands 18hr days
<\sh> Yagisan: so a woman and a child was the best what happened to me
* highvoltage too
<Yagisan> \sh: boy or girl ?
<\sh> Yagisan: boy
<\sh> Yagisan: stepson
<Yagisan> cool. I think my next one is a boy
<Yagisan> \sh: my first is a little girl (that acts like a boy)
<\sh> Yagisan: nice :) lucky man :) we tried to have a girl as well...but someone said no
<Yagisan> \sh: I'll post a pic when I find and scan a nice one
<\sh> Yagisan: well...piece of advise..family comes first...don't do the same mistake i did :(
<Yagisan> \sh: my wife has decided to cut my nuts off if I want more kids, I think thats a no
<\sh> Yagisan: 1. family 2. you 3. work
<Yagisan> \sh: as the are my only family, they come first. That was a major factor in starting my business
<highvoltage> i respect people who understand priorities.
<Yagisan> \sh: So I can be with them when they need me (which means that for the last 5 months business has really suffered)
<\sh> Yagisan: yeah...and I made a big big mistake..and work came first for me :( and now I'm missing my ex and the little one badly...sometimes it eats me up
<highvoltage> lots of people just want to make everything top priority, which basically means that they don't have priorities.
<Yagisan> \sh: I feel for you. I told my ex-boss to fuck himself when it started causing to much friction at home
<\sh> highvoltage: sometimes it's hard..when u want everything for your family..at this time I wasn't able to see this..but now...I made my mistake...
<Yagisan> \sh: I don't have any other family - I don't want to lose this one
<\sh> highvoltage: actually this is one of the mistakes u never do again
<highvoltage> hindsight is 20/20.
<Yagisan> \sh: true, I was interview a job interstate, but my wife couldn't go there. I had to make a choice
<Yagisan> \sh: I picked my wife, but at the time all she was concerned about was that I threw away the chance to provide for her
<Yagisan> and the kid(s)
<highvoltage> i've been lucky in the sense that i haven't made big mistakes yet. although, i have suffered from other people's mistakes. having said that, i think 1st hand experience is best.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: repeat after me - I'd rather learn from others mistakes
<highvoltage> "I'd rather learn from others mistakes"
<Yagisan> \sh: I hope things get better for you
<highvoltage> although, most people who say that, are only capable of learning from their own ;)
<\sh> Yagisan: yeah...and that's why I want to go away from germany..my ex is born in ZA and I promised her, that I will work and live there...and she agreed to come with when this happens...because she has all her family there..and her family is a type of "mafia" in peter maritzburg..so she can kill me if I'm making the same mistake a second time
<highvoltage> wow, i didn't realise it was that serious.
<Yagisan> \sh: I need to finish my uni degree and move to .jp in 2007 with my wife
<\sh> Yagisan: sounds great :) .jp must be fun 
<Yagisan> \sh: I got the visa paper ready to go
<Yagisan> \sh: /me has to learn .jp first
<\sh> highvoltage: well...my family (father mother etc.) i don't have any contact anymore...and when I met her family (living in durban, indians), they accepted me from the first minute as one of them...
<highvoltage> \sh: you work for canonical, right? does it matter where you work?
<\sh> highvoltage: no..i don't work for canonical
<Yagisan> \sh: in 2007 my wife is leaving - with or without me. That was the deal. She's been in .au for 8 years now
<\sh> highvoltage: i'm just an ubuntu volunteer motu :)
<Yagisan> \sh: She was supposed to be here for 1
<\sh> Yagisan: wow...this is quite hard...she knows what she wants...is she from .jp?
<Yagisan> \sh: you didn't see the pic did you ?
<\sh> Yagisan: didn't work :(
<Yagisan> \sh: She doesn't get treated to well here (we live in a poorer area full of "refugees" that are frankly rather racist)
<\sh> highvoltage: and my wish to leave germany..is no joke...that's my plan and wish and I will fulfill this wish/dream/plan whatever
<Yagisan> \sh: still times out ?
<\sh> Yagisan: connecting...and then nothing
<\sh> time out message is missing but it will come
<Yagisan> \sh: I'll load it onto my isp pages
<highvoltage> \sh: it is your destiny. if you persue it, it will happen.
<Yagisan> try here http://users.tpg.com.au/yagisan/images/yagi_and_yama.png
<\sh> Yagisan: I see :) 
<\sh> moment :)
<Yagisan> \sh: It was so hard to get her too
<\sh> Yagisan: http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/082003/AUT_0248.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922
<\sh> my son
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/082003/HPIM0038.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922
<\sh> my ex
<\sh> i hope i set the right permissions now
<Yagisan> \sh: cool
<\sh> Yagisan: well...u can browse around :) these are the pictures of my visit in za 2003
<\sh> there r others from dubai etc.
* Yagisan feels bad that he hasn't scanned any recent baby pics
<\sh> think highvoltage will recognize many of the locations :) hermanus, durban, etc.
<\sh> actually i have to scan the other 200 paper pictures
<Yagisan> \sh: your son, he looks like a ladies man
<\sh> Yagisan: in primary school all girls fell in love with him...:)
<Yagisan> \sh: thought so :)
<\sh> good to know, that he is now on a boys only school :)
* Yagisan locks my daughter away
* Yagisan swallows the key
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> yeah..jblacks daughter said as well, that he is cute...:)
<Yagisan> heh
<\sh> Yagisan: http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/September2003/HPIM0121.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922 
<\sh> this is the eldest son of my ex :)
<Yagisan> \sh: he also looks popular
<\sh> Yagisan: he's a womanizer
<\sh> 25
<Yagisan> \sh: he's older the me
<Yagisan> s/the/then
<Yagisan> aghh it dawn
<Yagisan> my wife will kill me if she realises I didn't go to bed
<\sh> Yagisan: btw...http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/September2003/HPIM0189.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922 linux in capetown :)
<Yagisan> cute
<\sh> but...we're totally off topic *lol*
<Yagisan> details details
<Yagisan> \sh: have I pimped my business website to you ?
<Yagisan> I think it's a great example of what happens when an engineer builds a website.
<\sh> Yagisan: no..:)
<Yagisan> \sh: http://www.eyagiconsulting.com
<\sh> Yagisan: and this is marks hometown ,) at least the nicest part i think from cape town :) http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/September2003/HPIM0178.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922
<Yagisan> \sh: not all links work - I haven't finished making content
<\sh> Yagisan: but everything css?
<Yagisan> \sh: yep all ccs (well some javascript only in IE to make it correctly do css)
<Yagisan> \sh: nice shot
<\sh> Yagisan: taken from table mountain...well...the girl from the tourist office in durban told us, it would snow in cape town...when we reached capetown after one week...27 degrees celsius and warm...and I had only warm clothes with me...
<Yagisan> \sh: I arrived in Tokyo, in the middle of winter - in shorts and a t-shirt =-O
<\sh> yeah...
<\sh> Yagisan: btw..this is my fav city in ZA...http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/SouthAfrica/September2003/HPIM0232.JPG.html?g2_navId=xb2cf9922
<Yagisan> \sh: feel free to mail feedback on my site :)
<\sh> Yagisan: Durban :) many indians are living there...indian ocean right in front of your house door...
<Yagisan> \sh: it was 3 degrees outside when I arrived
<\sh> Yagisan: hmm...u should ask ogras gf to pimp it ;)
<Yagisan> \sh: what does she do ?
<\sh> Yagisan: webdesign :)
<\sh> Yagisan: i mean...we all know html and css techniques...but coders are not good UI people :)
* \sh speaks for himself now :)
<Yagisan> \sh: yeah, but I love my colours and layout. I just need to make it more "professional"
<Yagisan> \sh: without making it less accessible - or harder to translate, and it has to go down 56K links
<\sh> Yagisan: yeah...the colors are nice ... but the layout has to be improved somehow...with css...
<\sh> css zen garden is a good location to see what css can actually...and I wonder if i could get one of those people to create a webpage for sourcecode.de or linux-server.org 
<Yagisan> \sh: like my menus ?
<\sh> Yagisan: yeah...i'm totally for css style menus...because it just works
<Yagisan> \sh: I had it looking a bit better with fake frames and it looked good. Then I tried it in IE - it looked like a dogs breakfast
<Yagisan> \sh: IE needs javascript just to get that css to work :(
<Yagisan> 5am - /me is going to sleep
<\sh> yeah...I have to go as well..
<\sh> I have to do some preparations for the night work tomorrow
<Yagisan> ok - night all
<pirast> Hi. I have a two questions to Edubuntu: 1: How can I use thin clients with Edubuntu? Is there something like a HowTO? 2: How many thin client can I connect to a server (via 100 Mbit/s LAN)?
<bluefrog-10> how big is the machine u want use for server?
<pirast> 1 GB Ram, Pentium with 3 GHz I think.. 
<pirast> Because we have a lot of problems with windows server 2003 at school I suggested the responsible teacher to try Edubuntu via thin client architectur (I love Ubuntu).. But he noticed that the network could be not fast enough so I promised to ask ;-)
<ogra> 1 Gb is a bit small... you should donate at least 128 MB to each client ... note that all apps run on the server in ltsp the network wont be the drawback here
<ogra> 100 MBit is fine for that
<pirast> ok, thanks :-)
<bluefrog-10> just avoid screensavers
<pirast> ok :-)
<ogra> if you want more precise numbers, idel a bit here and try to get your hands on highvoltage, he runs the tuxlabs ltsp setups with edubuntu with about 20 clients
<ogra> the screensavers are disabled automatically if a thin client session is detected :) 
<pirast> is it also possible to install Edubuntu on each client but to have a central file / login server so that the user has his data at every pc available?
<bluefrog-10> ltsp is the deal
<ogra> yes, but there you'll have to do everything manually, the target for the current release was a single classroom ltttsp seup with only thin clients... target of the next release is one school
<ogra> *ltsp setup
<pirast> ahh, ok, thanks :-)
<pirast> it sounds great :-)
<ogra> there we'll also target thicker clients and hopefully local disks on the clients
<ogra> and a centralized user management solution...
<pirast> ok :-)
<pirast> is there a howto / guide how to install Edubuntu in a thin client classroom setup?
<bluefrog-10> install ubuntu. install ldap + samba or nfs. install ubuntu on clients with ldap authentication and nfs mount (or samba)
<ogra> it happ4ens nearly automatically... 
<pirast> ok, thx
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> has some instructions
<ogra> see the LtspServerSetup page linked at the bottom ...
<pirast> ok
<pirast> I think we have some very old pcs in our school that are not used, maybe I can convince the tacher to try Edubuntu there ;-)
<bluefrog-10> do you need sound?
<pirast> No, I don't think so
<bluefrog-10> so go on edubuntu's for u
<bluefrog-10> will be esay
<ogra> next release will have sound support, promised :) 
<pirast> yes..
<pirast> I know
<pirast> I also looked at the roadmap :-)
<pirast> or something else..
<ogra> thast only a rhough direction... we'll spec the precise roadmap next week at the conference in montreal
<bluefrog-10> ogra do u know if ther's a way to install xdm on ubuntu?
<ogra> you mean for the thin clients ? 
<ogra> instead of ldm ? 
<ogra> or as a desktop login manager for a normal ubuntu setup ?
<bluefrog-10> for clients to use yes instaed of gdm on normal ubuntu + ltsp. i will move to dapper when it's going out but right now no sound is a nono for me so i a do my own ubuntu ltsp so that i can avoid K12lstp
<ogra> ah, you run ltsp 4.1 on ubuntu then ? 
<bluefrog-10> yes 
<ogra> i know xdm had a weird bug ... try it, you can always deinstall it...
<bluefrog-10> the only drawback compared to K12 is gdm. too solow ompared to xdm on K12 
<ogra> switch off the themeing
<ogra> you can do that in gdmconfig... just choose "classical greeter" and probably put a background image in the back
<bluefrog-10> really? hum will try. 
<bluefrog-10> and yes indeed i believe that's what K12 does
<ogra> the fullscreen themeing is the slowdown factor...
<ogra> it uses the gnomecanvas library, that one is quite slow...
<ogra> with plain gtk it should be a lot faster, bt it doesnt look as good :)
<bluefrog-10> by the way do u want a file/paste describing the samba+ldap install on ubuntu?
<ogra> could you mail it ? 
<bluefrog-10> give mail
<ogra> or even add a wikipage to wiki.edubuntu.org
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com :)
<pirast> I want an Ubuntu email adress, too !!!11111!! ;-)
<ogra> i can probably wave it in in the discussion next week https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-use-management
<bluefrog-10> no wiki right now, it's only a list of things to do. have taaken screenshots and i have to explain things in good english for everybody to do it. but it shouldn't be a pb for u as it is now
<ogra> pirast, easy to get now :) 
<ogra> we just started to give them away to all members ...
<pirast> lol :-)
<ogra> to become a member you need a wikipage describing yourself, need to make a valuable contribution of any kind (artwork, a help document, code, bugfixing, help packaging etc) and got to a community council meeting to get approved
<ogra> s/got/go/
<bluefrog-10> and i've been a bit refrained from wiki as i did a wiki on set up ltsp on ubuntu (unfortunately without stating that it was just to wait for dapper to come out) and this wiki has been redirected to the edubuntultspsetup
<ogra> the meetings happen every two weeks in #ubuntu-meeting :) 
<ogra> oh
<pirast> ogra: Is Bugreporting in upcoming releases also a valuable contribution? Sorry for off topic -.-
<ogra> erm, you maen for not yet existing software ? 
<ogra> *g*
<pirast> No, I mean for example reporting bugs in Dapper Drake till it is stable :-P :-D 
<pirast> Sorry when it was not really clear, my English is not the best.
<ogra> indeed the most important bugs for us are the ones in the development version ---
<pirast> Yes, I mean the development version :-)
<ogra> sorry i was kidding you a bit... indeed i understood :)
<pirast> ahh ok ;-) Sorry I'm a little bit tired.. 
<ogra> yup, the most important bugs are the ones in dapper during the next six months... 
<pirast> Hehe I am a little bit confused.. I will think about having an ubuntu.com email adress but actually it was a joke ;-)
<ogra> until about a month ago they were only available for employees, but now that we switch to launchpad, its a feature every member can have 
<pirast> Hm ok.. And I didn't know, wargh :-)
<pirast> n8.. I go to bed :-)
<pirast> cya maybe
<ogra> night
<ogra> :)
<bluefrog-10> ogra, need to setup a mail server. freaking provider server prevents me from sending any attachments tonight. will send u that this week.
<ogra> oki
<bluefrog-10> prevents me from sending to ubuntu.com as well that is weirder.
<ogra> would be nice to let it go in to the edubuntuusermanagement spec
<bluefrog-10> what do u mean?
<ogra> you can also send to ogra@canonical.com or hostmaster@grawert.net
<ogra> i'll have to work out a spec for edubuntu user management for the next release... that will involve ldap and i'd like o include samba too
<ogra> thats one of my tasks at the conference
<bluefrog-10> hum am starting to wonder if my mail provider is not blacklisted :)
<hyperactivecrond> i see we've changed the website to look like the default edubuntu ui
<ogra> yup
<hyperactivecrond> what is the point of schooltool agin?
<ogra> calendaring
<hyperactivecrond> thats it? ok
<Velmont> Instead of Evolution?
<ogra> nope...
<ogra> its more something for schoolwide calendaring, webbased, and i admit a bit oversized for a single classroom :)
<mhz> hi y'all
<Velmont> Well, Evolution is so hard when I work on 3-4 different computers. Should be a way to make it work against a server for calendaring...
<Velmont> But not Exchange or the Novell-thing, only want good FOSS-stuff.
<mhz> Velmont: LDAP
<Velmont> mhz: Does that work with several different Linux OS-es and in different locations? Maybe just an NFS-over-ssh-export of the .evolution-file...? :)
<mhz> Velmont: afaik, LDAP is a service you configure on the server side, and lets you share Calendar, Addressbook, etc from diff clients.
<mhz> it's Distro independant
#edubuntu 2005-10-30
<ogra> we'll support it (at least for user management) in the next release
<Velmont> Hmm. I'll look at it more tomorrow. At work ;) :P Need to find a good and easy solution.
<mhz> Velmont: there are some case scenarios already configured, so you endup just following instructions
<sven-tek> does eubuntu have a special application for account management of classes, or a frontend for teachers to make restrictions?
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> its on the plan for next release ... i'll backport it if we have something usable
<sven-tek> is there a project one could look at? Are there use-cases or something these tools will be based on?
<mhz> sven-tek: maybe it is not exactly what you look for but did you check SchoolTool?
<sven-tek> nope *google*
<ogra> see TeachersPet on the wiki
<mhz> ogra: hi there. Any summary of categorized applications for education, you included on current 5.10? (besides the one on EdubuntuDesktop?)
<sven-tek> cool stuff everywhere i look
<mhz> :)
<sven-tek> one could take edubuntu and build a medicubuntu for doctors, so they can have quiet, cheap thin clients in their rooms, ever heard of that idea?
<sven-tek> they would need internet, mail and appointment management, databases for medical stuff as well
<mhz> well, yes. But basically, once you know how to customize and set the LTSP environment, you could use any distro to do that.
<ogra> mhz, nope, i want a separate summit for it... but sabdfl has to decide that, i'll talk to him at UBZ
<mhz> ogra: LTSP does all the work load on the server side. Any way the workload can be shared between clients CPUs and the server one. I.E.: 1 server -> 30 clients. Could they all run openoffice at the same time? If so, can they distribute the load of each process or it will always be the server responsibility?
<ogra> i'd love to add that for dapper by clustering, but time is very short this release, i'm not sure i can make it for this release
<mhz> np,
<mhz> I was just wondering if it was possible :)
<mhz> ogra: I believe there's a guy already testing Edubuntu on a 'real' education center. D'u knowhis name or nick?
* mhz feels very happy with current edubuntu performance, BTW
<ogra> jelkner ? 
<mhz> oh, yeah!
<mhz> thx
<sven-tek> isnt memory the bottleneck in edubuntu practise? i would think so because nearly every edu-software uses a different toolkit and programming language
<mhz> sven-tek: yes, and no
<mhz> yes 'cos the server is responsible
<mhz> no, because it depends on how many clients are running how many apps. and how much memory they need to :)
<mhz> and, personally I have only tested it with light desktops (WindowMaker and Fluxbox)
<mhz> so, yes. Memory and Cpu are kind of bottlenecks
<sven-tek> for instance, if everything would be build on gtk. unique. then shared libaries would work well. but if one opens a java program, a gtk-based game and browser - another pupil starts a qt based edu software - then sharing is not that effektiv (java is a killer)
<ogra> yup, but you cant avoid that...
<sven-tek> but i suppose the only solution is to get more ram
<mhz> hehehe, indeed
<ogra> clustreing is helping a little here to share uneeded ressources
<mhz> however, we ahave already noticed there's a bigger bottleneck: The User
<sven-tek> lol
<sven-tek> layer 8 problem
<mhz> yep
<mhz> unfortunately... TheUser is usually TheTeacher
<sven-tek> give pupils admin accounts and restrict the teacher, it will be fine
<mhz> ogra: vmoral will connect now
<mhz> ogra: he has some nice points for us and he's been testing edubuntu with me
<mhz> ogra: he's the tech guy here in tecnocimiento
<ogra> mhz, i'm about to go to bed, its 1am here ..
<mhz> :(
<ogra> sorry, but i really cant look out of my eyes anymore, i had a very busy day sorting the travelling and organizing stuff... i'll fly on wednesday
<ajmitch_> night ogra :)
<mhz> night ogra 
<ogra> if i can sleep... sems i have no place to stay for the first three days. ...
<ajmitch_> ogra: what?
<ajmitch_> you're not at the hotel with the rest of the people?
<ogra> the hostel didnt confirm my booking and doko said its very full
<ajmitch_> :(
<ajmitch_> what hostel was that? same one treenaks was looking at?
* ajmitch_ spots an ogra upload
<ajmitch_> bbl, lunchtime
<ajmitch_> sleep well, ogra :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, nope, the one doko arrived today at
<barber> how can I tell if my ltsp workstaton is using the X settings I have for it in my lts.conf? can I get a command prompt on the local machine?
<SG1> hello
<JaneW> morning
<ajmitch_> morning JaneW 
<ajmitch_> how are you?
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> sick as a dog actually :(
<JaneW> not managing to get anything done :/
<ajmitch_> oh dear :(
<ajmitch_> I hope you recover before UBZ
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm not even sick and i'm having trouble concentrating on work as well
* ajmitch_ only has about a day & a half left of work before he goes
<JaneW> highvoltage: I thought I just had a post release cold, but it just gets worse and worse
<JaneW> I have the worst cold/cough ever
<JaneW> I am waiting for a lung to come out ;)
<JaneW> EEEUW
<highvoltage> JaneW: take it easy
<JaneW> I can't imagine how awful it must be to be sick if you are a smoker, this is bad enough!
<highvoltage> get lots of fresh air, drink lots of water, eat.
<ajmitch_> JaneW: and get some rest!
<ajmitch_> UBZ will be hard enough
<highvoltage> people tend to lie in bed when they're sick, it's the worse thing you can do. you end up lying in a pool of germs.
<jjtechno> Ok so what is the smallest gui I can install on a work station. I have an old x86 machine in my kindergardten class that has 4gig total space.
<jjtechno> It must be very early there. I will try again later.
<JaneW> highvoltage: but it's all you FEEL like doing...
<ajmitch_> I wonder if claire will allow me to extend my hotel booking
<JaneW> ajmitch_: probably... how long
<ajmitch_> until the 10th
<JaneW> ajmitch_: you may have to cover the extension yourself though...
<ajmitch_> I'm already covering it all myself..
<JaneW> ajmitch_: but they get cheaper rates etc
<ajmitch_> since they didn't want to sponsor me :)
<ajmitch_> morning \sh 
<JaneW> ajmitch_: then it shouldn't be a problem at all
<JaneW> ajmitch_: :(
<JaneW> ajmitch_: I know the reigns wereza_en/index.jsp pulled in for this one...
<JaneW> huh?
<ajmitch_> hmm
<ajmitch_> curious
<JaneW> ajmitch_: I know the reigns were pulled in for this one...
<ajmitch_> I know
<\sh> hey ajmitch_ 
<ajmitch_> there were people more deserving than I that didn't get sponsored
<\sh> good morning JaneW 
<crimsun> I didn't even notice the za_en/index.jsp until second reading
<JaneW> ajmitch_: nod
<JaneW> about deserving ppl not getting sponsored
<JaneW> not about you NOT being deserving ;)
<ajmitch_> and some like \sh who certainly deserved it, and did :)
<ajmitch_> hehe
<JaneW> hi \sh
* ajmitch_ needed a holiday anyway :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: gnarf
<ajmitch_> \sh: how are you?
<\sh> ajmitch_: i'm fine..and preparing some things for the channel line up change todays/tomorrows night and tomorrow morning
<ajmitch_> aha :)
<ajmitch_> preparing for your big talk on love day?
<\sh> big talk on love day?
<ajmitch_> yeah
* \sh didn't see himself on the love day schedule...somethings changed?
<ajmitch_> the MOTU workshop
<ajmitch_> yep
<\sh> I think I'm il
<\sh> l
<ajmitch_> haha
<ajmitch_> can't get out of it now
<ajmitch_> \sh: we can't leave ogra & dholbach to do all the workshop
<\sh> hehe...we will help them
<ajmitch_> with 3 hours to fill in, we'll be helping them
<\sh> BTW is dapper open?
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> open & being flooded
<\sh> argl
<ajmitch_> autosyncs are running
<ajmitch_> and other uploads are running hot
<ajmitch_> daniels with the current record of > 100 uploads
<\sh> I just realised that  my inbox JUST EXPLODED
<ajmitch_> hehe
<ajmitch_> you're not subscribed to the auto changes list are you?
<ajmitch_> so lots of new toys that edubuntu can use...
<ajmitch_> I see seb has uploaded sabayon
<\sh> ajmitch_: dapper-changes?
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> ah good
<ajmitch_> new libselinux for me to play with
<\sh> automatically subscribed :)
<ajmitch_> \sh: ubuntu-changes-auto as well
<\sh> i have to adjust my sieve
<ajmitch_> for all the debian imports
<\sh> ah
<\sh> no
<\sh> well
<ajmitch_> only about 1000 of those so far ;)
<\sh> ajmitch_: subscription via mailman_
<\sh> ?
<ajmitch_> yeah
<highvoltage> jjtechno: xfce4 is very nice, icewm is also small, if you have very little ram, you might want to try fluxbox
<\sh> morning highvoltage :)
<jjtechno> Thanks I will give fluxbox a try
<ogra> moin
<\sh> moins ogra
<\sh> JaneW: should we file all UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs/* stuff to LP?
<JaneW> \sh: yes
<JaneW> all edubuntu stuff must go under distro/ubuntu , so just preface topic with Edubuntu so we can identify them easily please
<\sh> JaneW: k
<ogra> to late
<highvoltage> so, anyone figure out what "infinite justice" means on an ubuntu server setup?
<ogra> most of the edubuntu bofs were added by mdz without prefix already...
<ogra> there is only edubuntu user management afaik
<JaneW> ogra: ack...
<JaneW> ogra: so how are we meant to differentiate them?
<ogra> we cant... but for the thin client stuff thats ok
<ogra> since it applies to the whole distro
<JaneW> ogra: ok goo
<JaneW> d
<ogra> but indeed its hard to proof that we did work specifically on edubuntu :)
<jeffubuntu> Hi, all
<jeffubuntu> someone know the best method to forbiden screensaver on client ?
<ogra> jeffubuntu, they shouldnt show up at all, else its a bug
<jeffubuntu> ok, fine it's because actually i use some fat client with a small debian on it
<jeffubuntu> with X -query
<ogra> you can set mode to "blank" in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XScreenSaver if it occurs that the LTSP_CLIENT environment var doesnt work as expected ...
<ogra> as a workaround
<ogra> will work for all users that didnt play with their settings already
<jeffubuntu> i think the better thing to me, it's to install an etherboot on the hd off my client
<jeffubuntu> because they don't want an floppy
<ogra> should be possible with the rom-o-matic images ...
<highvoltage> "X -query"- doesn't that use xdmcp?
<jeffubuntu> yes with Xdmcp
<jeffubuntu> i put an respawn on the client
<jeffubuntu> if someone kill the xserver, it restart
<ogra> jeffubuntu, then you dont use edubuntu i assume
<ogra> so the LTSP_CLIENT variable wont be set at all
<jeffubuntu> i just migrate of ubuntu to edubuntu yesterday
<jeffubuntu> and i use debian on client, because in the past i try ltsp
<ogra> but not with the edubuntu/ubuntu brezy ltsp
<ogra> it doesnt support xdmcp or other unsafe transports at all
<ogra> all X transport is ss tunneled in breezy...
<jeffubuntu> but i'had some problem with my video i840
<ogra> *ssh
<ogra> and all x setup works automatically...
<ogra> especially helpful for things like i810
<ogra> *i8X0
<jeffubuntu> but yesterday i try one pc with a floppy and edubuntu, it's work great ;)
<ogra> cool
<jeffubuntu> this is why now i must install the etherboot on the hd
<ogra> wait until Yagisan comes around, he's the absolute etherboot specialist around here :)
<jeffubuntu> this thread can interest some teacher who must (!) preserve an windows on the client
<jeffubuntu> with an dual boot : etherboot or windows
<ogra> jeffubuntu, if you got it running, feel free to make a wikipage about it so we can poin others with the same prob there ;)
<ogra> *point
<jeffubuntu> ok i try, this is my "mission" and i accept ;)
<ogra> cool, you rock :)
<jeffubuntu> c you
<ogra> bye :)
<highvoltage> jeffubuntu: rom-o-matic can also create lilo boot images for you
<highvoltage> bah!
<JaneW> ogra: if you look on distrowatch - 'last month', edubuntu has climbed to possition 48  from 72 :)
<ogra> WOW
<ogra> <- impressed
<highvoltage> wow. that's cause for more cake!
* \sh wants cake too....
<highvoltage> that means...
<highvoltage> that edubuntu has already passed the distrowatch rankings of K12ltsp :)
<highvoltage> <g>
* ogra just wants a room for his first three days in montreal... the hotel didnt confirm :(
<ogra> *hostel
* ajmitch_ will bring a tent
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Nov 16 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | edubuntu on position 48 in last months distrowatch stats
<ogra> ajmitch_, "below zero" !!
<ajmitch_> ogra: bring a warm sleeping bag :)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch_> ogra: I'm surprised that you can't get into the holiday inn
<ajmitch_> you've told claire about this?
<ogra> i'll try, but i ddnt ask 
* ajmitch_ suggests you do :)
<ogra> i wanted to stay separate for some days
<ajmitch_> ok
<JaneW> ogra: what is it with you and flights and hotel bookings? ;)
<ogra> to see some of the city and i like hostels...
<ajmitch_> you don't like the rest of us? ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: no cake baking will be happening today I am afraid
<ogra> JaneW, my flight is fine... its just that the hostel didnt onfirm anything and doko who already stays in the same hostel told me they are full seemingly
<ajmitch_> perhaps another hostel will have space
<ogra> so i'll have to try to find something spontaneous...
<\sh> ogra: bridge? ,-)
* ajmitch_ was more worried about his passport than where to stay
<JaneW> ogra: there's always jbailey...
<\sh> ogra: sleeping bag 
<ogra> ajmitch_, i guess so... but this one had guaranteed free wireless
<ajmitch_> JaneW: true, but him & angie in their apartment already? :)
<ajmitch_> I guess jeff might have room on the floor :)
<jsgotangco> hey all
<ogra> worst i'll pay for three nights in the holiday inn myself ... i dont really cae, its only three nights
<ajmitch_> hey jerome
<ogra> but it breaks my concept :)
<\sh> ogra: that means >=150  times 3
<jsgotangco> halo halo
<ogra> \sh, so ? 
<ajmitch_> \sh: it's not quite that expensive
<jsgotangco> ahhh trip planning...yum
<\sh> -ETOOMUCH
<ogra> bah... come on..
<ajmitch_> CA $135/night
<ajmitch_> was what claire told me, if you're not sharing a room
<ogra> if i have holidays i stay at home... so its ok to spend some money for that
<ajmitch_> ogra: yep, this is my holiday ;)
<ogra> thats not even 100
<ogra> a fine price ...
<\sh> ajmitch_: well...if my ex hadn't be fired from holiday inn, she could help to get a room for 25 in the same hotel..employee rate
<ajmitch_> \sh: eek
<ajmitch_> ogra: I thought so, and I'm sharing a room, so 1/2 that rate
<\sh> ajmitch_: we did that in dubai to stay at holiday inn ressorts
<ajmitch_> although I just asked for an extension in my booking
<\sh> ajmitch_: normally 300  per night
<ajmitch_> ouch
<\sh> ajmitch_: employee rate 25  per night ,-) 
<ogra> in europe you even pay ~75 for the cheapest etap/ibis hotel where you sleep in a room thats rather a plastic box
* ajmitch_ doesn't have 300  a night to spend :)
<\sh> ogra: check for best western in montreal
<ogra> i'll do... 
<\sh> ajmitch_: me neither 
<jsgotangco> 300 euros? jeeezz
<ogra> whatever has space for me is fine
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: come on, you've got the  key on your laptop ;)
<\sh> jsgotangco: first I wanted to have a suite in this 7 star class dubai most famous hotel..where a breakfast egg costs 50 US $
<ajmitch_> argh
<ajmitch_> $50?!
<ajmitch_> that's insane
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, hahaha im in a friend's cafe using a live cd
* jsgotangco left his laptop at home
<ogra> ajmitch_, nope, thats golden :p
<jsgotangco> its a nightmare here
<jsgotangco> EVERY SINGLE MACHINE HAS LINSPIRE
<\sh> ajmitch_: well...the suite (smallest I think is 75 squaremetres) cost 1500 US $ per night or so
<ajmitch_> better than win XP
<jsgotangco> ajmitch_, I SEE BLUE
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> good thing i have i gave him a cd pair
<JaneW> we need to get more ppl to review edubuntu
<JaneW> no one has submited feedback to our feedback page yet...
<jsgotangco> i can review but..it'll be biased....
<JaneW> jsgotangco: that's fine
<JaneW> just be honest
<jsgotangco> sure
<JaneW> hello btw
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> preparing for the trip?
<JaneW> maybe we can ask ogra to review :)
<ogra> lol
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes
<ogra> beware, it wont be a good review i know the bugs and drawbacks :)
<jsgotangco> oh btw
<jsgotangco> i have an acid test tommorow
<jsgotangco> 44 clients 1 server
<jsgotangco> at the college of saint benilde
<JaneW> hey we have a really advanced user: "I have installed Edubuntu 6.10 on a test desk top which I will be using as a test server. "
<JaneW> jsgotangco: good luck!
<ogra> cool
<jsgotangco> well wish me luck will be out the whole day
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, how do you manage to get the 10GB of extra MEM in for 44 clients ?
<jsgotangco> oh i didn't...the lab did
<jsgotangco> its a school anyways
<jsgotangco> they said it was an ltsp server before
<ogra> oh, so the server actually has enough mem ? 
<jsgotangco> on the morning we will try to set it up
<jsgotangco> if it fails we remove clients
<jsgotangco> because in the afternoon we expect 20 people to do hands on
<ogra> note that you need around 100 (rather a bit more) ram for each client you attach
<ogra> *MB
<jsgotangco> that's no problem
<jsgotangco> they are PCs not really thin clients
<jsgotangco> they wanted to do a proof of concept for the officers
<ogra> but edubuntu doesnt use the local ressources yet
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> its a new lab
<jsgotangco> i still haven't seen it
<jsgotangco> they have 2 servers avaialable
<jsgotangco> both are smp
<ogra> i mean you wont gain anything with real PCs as clinets
<jsgotangco> its a pretty rich school anyways
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> its their lab not mine :)
<jsgotangco> i told them about it
<jsgotangco> since everyting runs with their gigabit network
<jsgotangco> im not so much a network person but i saw their diagram its pretty solid
<Velmont> Wohoo! :D LTSP is up and running! How cool :]  Now I just want to connect many computers to the server, to see how much it can handle. Too bad there is so little space here.
<ogra> stack them ;)
<Velmont> ogra: hehe. Ill try... ;) Just have to get them up-and-running. Some of the IBM PL300's doesnt come with network-boot-option! Although most of them do. Strange problem.
<Velmont> Have to make a boot cd I guess.
<Velmont> But, what is the best way to make users for LTSP? I mean, I don't really want everybody being able to log onto the server etc. Right now I just made a normal account using the GUI-user administration program.
<ogra> thats the way to do...
<ogra> the session runs on the server, so you need a user on the server to log in...
<Velmont> Ok. So they can log onto the server itself as well? I can't restrict them from doing that? Kinda like "only allow login via ssh"?
<ogra> nope...
<ogra> probably something to evalate for dapper+1 ... 
<Velmont> Well, ok :) Isn't a real problem now anyway. Just wanted to do The Correct Thing(tm).
<ogra> but not even legacy ltsp can do that
<Velmont> Anyway, the implementation is way cool, kudos! ;D
<ogra> only half of it can go to me ... the design is made by mdz :)
<ogra> the cool thing is, that you could make a server from every machine rinnung ssh in your network ... 
<ogra> i'm thinking about to make up a gui for the login manager to set up sessions this way... somehow like xdmcp... but you dont need X installed on the server
<Velmont> ogra: Hmm... I've installed normal Edubuntu on the server, should I maybe not start X, to make more resources avaiable to the clients?
<ogra> if you need more mem, that would be a easy step, yes ...
<Velmont> 250MB ram on the server :P It's actually using swap right now, 4MB mem free. 157MB swap used.
<ogra> 250B is quite low :)
<Velmont> Yes, I know :p But it was for testing, not serious :) Hm. How can I find CPU-speed?
<ogra> top
<Velmont> Another thing, the ntpdate is kinda bothering when you don't have internet. It stops at that place for a long time.
<Velmont> ogra: It doesn't give you that info? Only % being used.
<ogra> remove it from /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d
<Velmont> Of course :p - I keep forgetting it's a own installation in there. Well, I'll go ghost some win98 machines.
<Velmont> Thanks :)
<ogra> :)
<mhz> hi there
<mhz> ogra: ping
<mhz> yesterday, vmoral and I disussed about the pros and cons of edubuntu for Chilean schools env.
<mhz> ogra: He mentioned something I consider very imprtant: AFAIK, if LTSP works via SSH, then X is sending packages all the time. And if so, then the real bottleneck is the network load/capacity.
<mhz> if 10 clients are executing parallel sessions of OOO, then the network will collapse.
<mhz> mainly because X sends packages at once (per request)
<mhz> ogra: is that so?
* mhz leaves for another edubuntu demo
<enyc> ogra: btw, on installed edubuntu, the problem with tuxpaint-sound didnt appear to happen [!] 
<ogra> enyc, cool
<ogra> gah, i missed mhz
<enyc> ogra: BUT the tuxpaint link was copied to desktop...
<ogra> huh ? 
<enyc> ogra: Im not sure if it failed when ran from the menu-item
<enyc> ogra: and the machines not here now ;p  its off in tha land of kiddies <g>
<ogra> hmm, it should be identical with a copied one on the desktop
<ogra> heh
<enyc> remember... when in wasnt working... running 'tuxpaint' from cmd-line worked...
<enyc> anyway ... brb.....
<enyc> bark
<enyc> back even ;p
<invasifspecies> hello edubuntu
<invasifspecies> anyone here?
<pirast> just write your question :-)
<invasifspecies> I'm a science ed graduate student in Columbus Ohio, I just installed edubuntu and I'm impressed. I plan to try it out in some local schools....
<ogra> cool :)
<invasifspecies> does anyone know if a ppc version is likely any time soon?
<ogra> the ppc ltsp package had a heavy bug, we couldnt release it ...
<ogra> if you only want to use a workstation install, use the last edubuntu daily from cdimage.ubuntu.com, its 100% identical with the release
<invasifspecies> That's useful info. I may try the workstation. Also, where can I learn about supported ppc machines for ubuntu and kubuntu? I have one of the pre USB G3 laptops. I think it is the last of the old world roms and it wont boot from ubuntu CD. Will it work if I try some other boot engine?
<ogra> another way to use it on ppc is to install ubuntu and post install just install edubuntu-desktop, that also brings you a workstation install
<invasifspecies> I can wait for a ppc version but it will be extremely useful to know that one will be available eventually......
<ogra> i only know that we officially onyl support new world, but there were some related threads on ubuntu-users and i think there is also info in the ubuntu wiki
<invasifspecies> or will you just skip ppc and instead aim for edubuntu for the new intel macs?
<ogra> i didnt plan to have non this release ;) the ltsp bug showed up while testing the release isos only..
<ogra> we had not enough ppc testers during development that would have discovered it
<invasifspecies> too bad
<invasifspecies> maybe I can find some for you.
<ogra> there are lots of ibm blade servers serving thin clinets out there... as long as i have something to say in the distro we wont drop ppc ;)
<invasifspecies> cool
<invasifspecies> because many schools are full of old macs
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> not in europe though... but io heard about US being a big field for them at schools
<invasifspecies> actually old world mac edubuntu would probably cause me to do a dance of joy since there are thousands of them in schools here and OS 9 is really obsolete now.
<ogra> look on the wiki... there is info about old world macs somewhere
<invasifspecies> Anyway, let me take this opportunity to thank the team for your work... I absolutely love what I see so far and I think it has great potential for underfunded schools in the US
<invasifspecies> How is the foundation funded?
<invasifspecies> and have you considered doing the rounds of some of the major educational conferences to tell teachers about the advantages of edubuntu?
<ogra> currently only by marks donation ... i'm not really sure how its supposed to fund itself in the fututre..
<invasifspecies> Do you have a grant writer?
<invasifspecies> I bet NSF would be interested
<ogra> yes, but thats a matter of payment... we'll have our conference in montreal next week and i think we'll discuss such things there
<invasifspecies> I can think of a bunch of places where you could apply for grants. tech in education is highly fundable.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> we'll certainly do ...
<ogra> currently money is not our major prob ... first we need a community and more developers edubuntu breezy was a one man show... development wise ..
<invasifspecies> I'm thinking of doing some published research on using edubuntu in schools. I wonder if there might be any opportunity for some kind of formal collaboration. Do you have some kind of research group or any academic partnerships at this time?
<invasifspecies> would you like to?
<ogra> yes, absolutely...
<ogra> we have a community feedback page on the wiki
<invasifspecies> ok  I'll check it out.
<invasifspecies> so... to be clear... you say that hopefully.. there will eventually be a mac version of edubuntu?
<invasifspecies> and is there anything I can do to help make that happen?
<ogra> with the next release, yes
<invasifspecies> in all honesty, I think I could drum up a couple of ppc testers with linux experience... what other qualifications would they need?
<ogra> motivation would be enough... for technical questios we got the channle here and the edubuntu-devel mailing list ;)
<invasifspecies> ok
<ogra> ok, i'll be afk for some time now, have to prepare my travel to montreal tomorrow
<invasifspecies> well thanks for your time... is there an email address for a formal communication regarding some kind of academic collaboration?
<ogra> edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ...
<invasifspecies> cheers.
<ogra> ciao :)
<lidveig> anybody there?
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
<invasifspecies> stupid dell I/O error. edubuntu cant make the partitions it needs. bah.
<brankinhu> alguem aqui fala portugues??
<KurtKraut> Does anyone know a program (free software , of course) that works with spacial geometry ?
<KurtKraut> For maths classess
<invasifspecies> Alas I don' know Portuguese, but I did once go on holiday in Madeira if that helps.
<brankinhu> KurtKraut, valeu cara!
<brankinhu> hehehehe
<KurtKraut> invasifspecies, I've already translated, with my poor english, what brankinhu  asked ;D
<ogra> KurtKraut, you need real GIS software ? 
<ogra> or just geometric stuff
<KurtKraut> ogra, just geometric stuff
<KurtKraut> The enough for high school
<ogra> have you already looked at drgeo and kig ? 
<ogra> (kig is includedin edubuntu= 
<ogra> )
<KurtKraut> no, I've seen nothing until know
<KurtKraut> Do you know the official website of these softwares ?
<KurtKraut> I need to check thru screenshots if they do wht I need.
<ogra> kig is in the kdeedu suite, drgeo will be on sourceforge.net somewhere... 
<KurtKraut> ogra, thanks a lot ;D
<ogra> i would suggest kig btw ...
<KurtKraut> Does Edubuntu comes with any software related to biology ?
<ogra> chemistry ... but what would be software for biology ? 
<invasifspecies> something for biometrics....
<invasifspecies> translating dna into protein sequences
<ogra> hmm, i dont even know about such a software for linux...
<invasifspecies> I could find it
<invasifspecies> http://bioinformatics.org/software/index.php3
<invasifspecies> loads of packages there.
<invasifspecies> DNA processing, tree construction... its all there.
<invasifspecies> what are you looking for specifically KurtKraut ?
<KurtKraut> invasifspecies, biology software focusing high school
<ogra> wow, lots of stuff there.... i guess some apps should get packaged for next release
<invasifspecies> a couple of bio packages here:
<invasifspecies> http://richtech.ca/cgi-bin/seul/seulvw.pl?category=Science
<KurtKraut> thanks ;D
<invasifspecies> The dictionary here might be useful:
<invasifspecies> http://richtech.ca/cgi-bin/seul/seulview.pl?recnum=143
<invasifspecies> As a college biology instructor i can tell you that if the freshman arrived with nothing else but a good grasp of scientific vocabulary i would happily do the rest.
<KurtKraut> invasifspecies, where do you teach ? (country)
<invasifspecies> USA
<invasifspecies> but I am from England
<KurtKraut> invasifspecies, I teach in Brazil. Here biology is heavier for kids at school than US
<invasifspecies> I know
<KurtKraut> invasifspecies, I think here we have to teach more than we should.
<invasifspecies> but you pay a price in terms of exposure to other subjects.
<KurtKraut> Everything is biochemically justified, exemplified
<invasifspecies> since i have been in the US I have actually learned to have some respect for their system.
<KurtKraut> But concerning our biodiversity, it is important to have a intensive teaching in biology
<invasifspecies> it takes longer... but they get there in the end (ie, in graduate school).
<invasifspecies> my site... please excuse broken links and advertisements... I am behind with site maintenance. http://www.angelfire.com/ri/skibizniz/index.html
<KurtKraut> I will check it out ;D
<invasifspecies> environmental and conservation biology are really my specialty... especially integrating video, and computer graphic technology with visual cognition issues during the teaching of field and laboratory biology.
<invasifspecies> I also build artificial ecosystems.
<KurtKraut> artificial ecossystems... sounds interesting
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
#edubuntu 2006-10-23
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: reload synaptic in order to check for updates
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: what happened?
<chovynz> it has a list of upgradeable installed apps. but it does say 88mgs need to be downloaded.
<chovynz> i read on the apt-proxy page that we need to point the deb http lines to deb //var/... maybe this would help?
<chovynz> ^ deb line in sources.list
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: the 88 megs is because you were missing some repositories
<chovynz> ...which are already on my other HD, which brings me back to my original question.....how do i make a harddrive a repository source
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you set up apt-proxy
<chovynz> no. i've been following the command lines. I'm gonna try apt next
<chovynz> <sigh> Q. how do i search for all files of *.deb in File manager?
<chovynz> nautilus
<LaserJock> does nautilus do that?
<LaserJock> like system-wide searches?
<chovynz> its supposed to i thought
<chovynz> yeah
<chovynz> the search function doesn't seem to work like it looks like it should
<stelis> Places > Search searches your personal data
<stelis> Emails etc. 
<stelis> Rather than all of the system
<chovynz> ok....even when you select file system?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I know how using the command line
<chovynz> :D how?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: 'cp -v -i /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives'
<chovynz> "y enter y enter y enter y enter y enter ..." :D
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: then do control-c
<BonBonTheJon> and take out the -i
<chovynz> its ok. its already done
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: ok heres another question for you....what would the uri for my secondary HD be? how would i find this out?
<stelis> file:// plus the device name
<stelis> e.g. file:///dev/hda1
<stelis> Three slashes because of the leading slash in the device names
<chovynz> "/" = root?
<stelis> Yes
<stelis> Devices are files
<stelis> In /dev
<stelis> Drives are then mounted to access 
<stelis> The contents of the devices appear under /media by default
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: what do you need the URI for
<stelis> So the contents of /dev/cdrom would appear in /media/cdrom
<chovynz> stelis:  thats true
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon:  i need that address which is where the local repository for my entire upgraded old system is
<stelis> I wasn't sure how much you knew already :)
<chovynz> stelis: good for checking
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: is this for apt-proxy
<chovynz> still SPM...haven't figured out apt yet..i've been following the tutorial, but there are steps in there that i dont need
<chovynz> what i do need is for sources.list to point to my mounted HD. I don't know the syntax for the SPM / apt channel 
<chovynz> then when i run SPM it will see the updated old apps, see the recent "old" files, think of my old upgraded system as a channel and overwrite my new ones. 
<chovynz> which is what i want :D
<chovynz> is there a crying emote in here?
<BonBonTheJon> :'(
<BonBonTheJon> I guess
<chovynz> that'll do :)  :'(
<chovynz> i might as well have DL them all again
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: don't give up
<chovynz> for the time its taken me this far
<chovynz> heres the file error message i get
<chovynz> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27893/
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: can you pastebin you sources.list
<chovynz> ok
<chovynz> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27895/
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: are you using breezy or dapper
<chovynz> dapper
<chovynz> ah
<chovynz> i used badger didnt i
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you run through the apt-proxy tutorial
<chovynz> i didnt completly. I thought it wasn't what i needed. I'll take another look
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you copy all the .deb files to a folder on the new drive
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: you can install all of them, I guess
<chovynz> all these tutorials and documentations are talking about http internet and networked computers. They aren't talking about a local HD on the same machine - this is the syntax i need for SPM to recognise where to find the undated files.
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon:  i dont even know how to find all .deb files yet
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you copy all the files
<chovynz> i c&p what you told me to
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I have an idea, open up the console and follow with me
<chovynz> the cp -i - v bit
<chovynz> console?
<chovynz> terminal or naut?
<BonBonTheJon> terminal
<chovynz> done
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: ok, change into the directory with all the .deb 'ch /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives'
<BonBonTheJon> 'cd /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives'
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: k
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: now we will install all of them 'sudo dpkg -i *.deb'
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it should take a long time, it is installing all of the files
<chovynz> yes :D
<chovynz> o.O i just thought....why are we installing all of the files?
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it will have the updated files
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: im seeing packages in there that i unchecked
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: like...?
<chovynz> like most things to do with kde
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: well, they will show up in synaptic, so you can remove them
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: lol. ok if it works i guess
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: better to get too much and remove the extra, than download it all over again
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: dinner time, I'll be back later
<chovynz> ok thnx
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: update?
<chovynz> command line is done
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: refresh synaptic and see if there are any updates
<chovynz> it says the same thing. and its still downloading from the internet
<chovynz> i said yes this time
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: hmm, I don't knwo
<chovynz> o.O i need to restart
<chovynz> ill bbs
<chovynz> BonBonTheJon: <shrug> it all seems to be updated. I dont know when it did, and i dont know how...but it is
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: thats the important thing
<chovynz> there seems to be some gaps though - openoffice updates for instance 
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: you can add the openoffice repository
<chovynz> ah well...Thanks muchly for helping me
<chovynz> I do appreciate it
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: glad to be of service
<chovynz> was it a mission?
<BonBonTheJon> huh?
<chovynz> I guess if i need any more help with EDU ill come back here :)
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: of course
<chovynz> thanx all
<chovynz> Thanks BonBonTheJon
<chovynz> ~
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: no problem
<chovynz> Q. what was the other apps other than WINE?
<chovynz> vmware and qvm or something
<BonBonTheJon> vmware or qemu
<chovynz> qemu. thnx thats what i was looking for
<chovynz> qemu up and running
<chovynz> oh yeah, so is windows
<BonBonTheJon> chovynz: cool
<sky123> thanxsa earlier with help on PXE....got it working !!! :) 
<sky123> lucasvo:thnx
<sky123> highvoltage:thnx
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<BonBonTheJon> hi
* jack_wyt is away: 
* jack_wyt is away: 
* jack_wyt is away: 
<sky123> whoo hoo! xchat working with edubuntu thin client!!! 
<sky123> nice!
<LaserJock> cool
<sky123> :) 
<sky123> Hi guys can someone help me understand whether schooltool is installed by default on the server end???
<sky123> and how do i access it via the web? 
<LaserJock> hmm, I think it's installed on a server install
<bimberi> yes, edubuntu-server depends on it
<sky123> right...i saw it synaptic...but i guess my question was a litttle vague...how do i access it??
<sky123> cool 
<bimberi> sky123: try http://localhost:7180
<bimberi> (a guess)
<sky123> cool will do 
<sky123> ill netstat -ln it if necessary 
<sky123> ;) 
<bimberi> :)
<sky123> also...what does it use as dbase backend? mysql 
<sky123> ??
<sky123> or postgres or??
<sky123> and is zope installed by default for conent management??
<sky123> content that is...
<LaserJock> I'm guessing no to the zope question
<sky123> okay...by the way i hit schoolbell on 7180..which installed as well...but that is schooltool right??
<bimberi> same here
<bimberi> (guessing no to zope)
<sky123> and uhmm...newb here...what is the default login and pass for management..or is that only done from localhost??
<sky123> ie...remote clients may NOT administer the box... for schooltool...??
<bimberi> sky123: see if there's anyone in #schooltool perhaps :)
<sky123> lol...good enough :) 
<sky123> will do 
<bimberi> btw yes, schoolbell is part of the schooltool project
<sky123> is there is a list of default packages installed with edubuntu or is a dpkg --list my best option? 
<sky123> cool 
<sky123> bimberi,Laserjock thanks for the help thus far
<LaserJock> dpkg -l is the best to see what you've got
<sky123> will do. 
<LaserJock> usually in conjunction with | grep 
<sky123> but of course :) 
<LaserJock> sky123:  so have you been able to get into schooltool?
<sky123> not yet... 
<sky123> i can access the page..and the official schooltool getting started didnt have any docs in it.. 
<sky123> yet to be added it says
<bimberi> sky123: how about http://localhost:7080 ?
<sky123> oh...lemme try that 
<sky123> same result...takes me to calendar...and has same login button at top 
<bimberi> hm
<sky123> fyi: SchoolTool uses an object database, the Zope Object Database (ZODB) to be precise. It is not a relational database. There are no tables and no object-relational mapping, just persistent objects.  Instead of looking at database tables, Zope developers look for interface.py modules to grok an application's data structure.
<sky123> bimberi: looks like it uses zope...from their faqs
<bimberi> sky123: yes, zope3 iirc
<sky123> bimberi: manager,schooltool......lol....worked! 
<bimberi> sky123: did you guess that?
<sky123> I wish I could take credit for miracles like George Bush...but I googled it... 
<sky123> and saw it on the cando website.. 
<bimberi> lol, i was going to say 'you cracker you' :P
<sky123> which is addon to schooltool for managing assessment
<sky123> lol 
<sky123> google...gotta love it. :) 
* RichEd is at US embassy - VISA
<sky123> alright guys...will be reading up on schooltool...thnx thusfar
<Burgundavia> RichEd: there are days I am glad I am a Canadian and don't generally need a Visa to go anywhere
<cbx33> Guten Morgen Alles
<LaserJock> hola amigo ;-)
<cbx33> LaserJock, !!!!
<cbx33> dude how are you
<highvoltage> BOO!
<highvoltage> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/604
<jsgotangco> Hey!
<highvoltage> howdy, mr tango
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> Lol
<jsgotangco> It seems our RC is our gold with very little changes to the build now
* highvoltage does Mr burns thing... "Excellent"
<ogra> well, apart from the udev bug highvoltage had and apart from the session choose bug i have no info on yet ...
<ogra> b8ut its to late for uploads anyway ... 
<jsgotangco> Jeez dapper looks old
<jsgotangco> And slow
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> Really!
<ogra> well, we'll roll the final isos in some hours
<ogra> and then have a nice week of tests ...
<highvoltage> I won't be able to do testing again until I'm home, which is also in a few hours. *sigh*
<jsgotangco> Do you remember before a year ago when final isos are rolled out and everyone is online
<highvoltage> ogra: and if the udev thing can be fixed, do you think that would be allowed?
<ogra> only if its a small chane
<ogra> *change
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> but i suspect its a kernel bug or something ... it sliekly to be bigger
<jsgotangco> Man my thumbs are sore now chatting on a phone
<jsgotangco> ogra: who is christina armstrong?
<ogra> marketing
<jsgotangco> Ahhh
<ogra> did she write something exciting i didnt read yet ? 
<jsgotangco> EOL of 
<jsgotangco> 5.04
<ogra> ah
<jsgotangco> *sniff*
<ogra> yeah, there goes hoary
<jsgotangco> I think hoary was my first real tangible contribution to ubuntu
<jsgotangco> I still use rhythmbox
<jsgotangco> Oopppss
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: can you email me your snail mail addy? I want to send something to you
<jsgotangco> ogra: you too ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sure
<highvoltage> !
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: nothing illegal, I hope?
<highvoltage> ;)
<gsuveg> re
<jsgotangco> hah
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: probably
<gsuveg> anyone can show picture from Mario ani ?
<gsuveg> pleeease
<jsgotangco> haha
<highvoltage> gsuveg: that's pygi :)
<jsgotangco> i dont even know how he looks like
<gsuveg> yes. but he is offline now
<gsuveg> http://ubuntu.hu/konf/?q=program/edubuntu <  im edit the flyer
<highvoltage> I think there might be a hacekrgotchi somewhere
<jsgotangco> its only a few months ago i discovered how prolific pygi is
<jsgotangco> UbuntuWorld 2007?
* highvoltage thinks it would be cool, despite a college student thinking that it isn't
<jsgotangco> sure but pity us on the other side of the planet heh
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: so true!
<lucasvo> I want it in europe!
<jsgotangco> no!
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> the *way other* side of the planet
<jsgotangco> errr firefox now has the logo???
<highvoltage> on Ubuntu? wow.
<highvoltage> I've always manually changed my one to have the logo :)
<lucasvo> nice
<highvoltage> for example...
<highvoltage> http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/screenshots/25MAR05
<lucasvo> this stupid debian fork is the dumbest Idea I've ever head
<lucasvo> ts/I/they/g
<highvoltage> or http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/screenshots/23_OCT_2006 
<lucasvo> :P
<highvoltage> lucasvo: it's unfortunately just the way it has to be :-/
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well i just updated firefox and i get the firefox logo on the panel
<highvoltage> lucasvo: if mozilla wants their logo in Debian, they'll have to change the licensing a bit
<jsgotangco> lucasvo: well mozilla is pretty adamant about stuff as well to the point of being unreasonable
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, cool. I think it's good that ubuntu does that
<jsgotangco> lucasvo: i actually met asa dotzler before and we argued about it
<lucasvo> well, both are dumb.
<lucasvo> debian for forking it and mozilla for their licensing
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i wont be surprised if its temporary
<cbx33> afternoon all
<jsgotangco> but at the moment /usr/share/pixmaps/firefox.png is the firefox logo
<cbx33> ogra, just read your mail.....
<cbx33> sorry for being so monumentally stupid
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> ??
<cbx33> I was thinking way outside the box on that one
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> oh, the SCP mail you mean
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> I feel.....well...stupid ;)
<cbx33> hiya highvoltage 
<cbx33> ogra, I'll see if I can get on with that soon
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I think it might be intentional, see edgy-changes
<jsgotangco> ahh i see it
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hopefully, sabdfl doesn't see this http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c061017HondaJetNBAA/
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: why?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: he might buy one. or ten.
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> and replace his bombardier
<lucasvo> highvoltage: an Ubuntu Summit shuttle service?
<lucasvo> :P
<jsgotangco> sure its been used like that before
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: if you're sending me one of those, it won't fit in my postbox :(
<ogra> jsgotangco, whats wrong with bombardiaer ?
<ogra> *bombardier
<jsgotangco> well nothing wrong really with having your own aircraft, but this one is cheap for $3.65M
<ogra> well ... fsvo cheap
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> (i could buy a football field of porsches for that :) )
<highvoltage> 'cheap' is always relative :)
<cbx33> indeed as is expensive
<lucasvo> private jet & opensource is kinda strange together...
<ogra> why ? it proves the model works ;)
<highvoltage> I think I'll buy one one day just because lucasvo said that :)
* lucasvo would also buy one
* highvoltage is of course too chicken to actually fly in one of those small planes
<lucasvo> but I woulnd't use it where normal frlights are available
<lucasvo> why burn 1000 times as much fuel as needed?
<jsgotangco> good queston, let's ask the man who owns one
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: I will
* lucasvo just hope's he won't get banned forever from #ubuntu
<lucasvo> :)
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Hello sbalneav
<jsgotangco> hi
<sbalneav> Hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<sbalneav> be back in a bit, have to reboot my box
<gsuveg> re
<tideline> afternoon all
<highvoltage> good afternoon, tideline 
<highvoltage> isn't it very late in the evening / early in the morning your side of the world?
<tideline> highvoltage, me - no its 11:13 am
<tideline> im in EST USA
<tideline> been here at work for 3 hours now
<highvoltage> ah
<jsgotangco> heh exact opposite here, its 11:13 pm
* highvoltage has been confusing time zones again
<highvoltage> 17:13 here :)
<jsgotangco> i live in the future
<tideline> or i live in the past
<tideline> not very zen of me is it 
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> well how does this sound
<jsgotangco> i live in the future
<jsgotangco> but i depend on the work of people in the past
<jsgotangco> ;)
<tideline> heh
<tideline> jsgotangco, where are you Aus or something?
<jsgotangco> i'm in Manila
<jsgotangco> Sydney would be around 1am already
<Yagisan> its 1:16am
<Yagisan> ;)
<tideline> isn't it bed time ;-)
<Yagisan> indeed - but the kids don't believe me
<tideline> funny mine never believe me either
<Yagisan> tideline, mine are 2 and a half, and 11 months. yours ?
<tideline> Yagisan, 6 years and 3 years
<tideline> the 6 year old is why I sterted looking at edubuntu
<Yagisan> heh. I've gotten my 2 year interested in it
<Yagisan> your 6 year will very likely have no trouble with it (and probably start teaching you how to use it soon ;) )
<tideline> He goes to a private school which is getting new computers this year - Iam actually going to pitch a edubuntu solution to them tomorrow morning
<tideline> he already does
<tideline> I actually had to take his laptop away from him for a litle while, he was on there all the time
<jsgotangco> my 4 1/2 uses gcompris all the time
<tideline> has anyone used kid pix... its not OS but they just bought it at his school and I want to tell them that XX is just as good and free
<tideline> http://www.learningcompany.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1194&mainPID=1194&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C87&iProductID=1194
<tideline> looks like tux paint but a little more polished
<juliux> ogra, ping
<lucasvo> does edgy have the swap server?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> not the one we wanted though, but it has a swapserver
<LaserJock> what does that mean exactly?
<lucasvo> ogra: why are there two different swapservers?
<lucasvo> what's the diference?
<ogra> fully-automatic-swapserver defines that everything we want is directly included in nbd-server
<ogra> the current solution is a wrapper script that does the same but isnt integrated
<lucasvo> ogra: because of lack of time?
<ogra> so f-a-s is still not properly integrated ... and will only be if we turned the script into C code and applied it to nbd-server
<lucasvo> will it be different in fiesty fawn?
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> i'*ve put it on the discussion agenda
<lucasvo> ogra: you don't like C?
<ogra> nah
* lucasvo neither
<ogra> too many security rissk 
* lucasvo is already looking forward for the new features in fiesty
<lucasvo> I am so damn annoyed that I missed the deadline for MV. :(
<sbalneav> DON'T LIKE C?!?!?!
* sbalneav faints dead away.
<lucasvo> sbalneav: well, if you like C, why don't YOU do it!?
<lucasvo> ;)
* LaserJock splashes some water on sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Sure, what is it I'm doing?
* sbalneav reads back
<sbalneav> Oh, sure, I could do that.
<lucasvo> sbalneav: nice!
<highvoltage> good evening mr sbalneav 
<sbalneav> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how's LTSP 5 coming along?
<ogra> highvoltage, as far as you see it on your testinstall :P
<ogra> we're just writing specs :)
<highvoltage> cool :)
<sbalneav> It's coming swimingly.
<ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs has already a handfull
* ogra proposes highvoltages fat-clients spec for uds
<highvoltage> :-D
<LaserJock> \o/
<sbalneav> There's a nice 3-level heirarchy there.
<highvoltage> ogra: I don't think the diskless fat client work will be so much work, I've got it working already, I just need to get the code into a ltsp bzr branch (which I still need to figure out how to do)
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm wondering now if I shouldn't have marked edubuntu-dynamic-menus as "implemented"
<sbalneav> Fat: Full client, just no harddrive
<highvoltage> the only tricky part is the authentication, but ldap support is going to be in feisty, so that makes it easy :)
<ogra> LaserJock, its there, isnt it ? make a followup spec
<sbalneav> Localapps: Mainly thin, but an app or two farmed out to the client.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: correct
<sbalneav> Thin: Everything on the server.
<sbalneav> Perfect.
<ogra> LaserJock, like we did for SCP 
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I marked it as implemented, but it's more like "Beta Available"
<highvoltage> sbalneav: at some stage I had that on a terminology page so that we all know what we're tlaking about, perhaps that can go into the ltsp docs this time :)
<ogra> highvoltage,  https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-network-auth-server
<highvoltage> sbalneav: btw, is it available somewhere? I'd love to go through it.
<highvoltage> ogra: heh, I downloaded those ldap scripts this afternoon :)
<ogra> LaserJock, if it needs re-considering just make a new spec
* highvoltage hopes it gets in :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i'll fight for it ... regardless where the network auth stuff for ubuntu goes
<ogra> i'm tired of waiting
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know whether MV will have teamspeak or other voip things again?
<ogra> yep, it will
<ogra> but i hope with a speaker/mic on the table this time
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I think it certainly need more discussion to get a really good and usable menu system. I'll whip up something
<ogra> LaserJock++
<sbalneav> highvoltage: No, not yet.  I need to sit down for a day and a half, and do some doco on what LTSP5's all about.
<nixternal> howdy everyone!
<LaserJock> ogra: although I think maybe more interesting and farther reaching would be making a general group driven framework
<highvoltage> hey nixternal 
* nixternal will be doing some handbook work today, to get everything to re-validate
<ogra> LaserJock, yeah, and integrate it with the smbldap ;)
<highvoltage> talking about documentation...
<highvoltage> did you guys see that indonesian edubuntu cookbook?
<highvoltage> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/604
<nixternal> i haven't
<ogra> lets rather talk about tesing ;) there is a new iso on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/ ;)
<ogra> might be the pre-last one who knows :)
<highvoltage> oh wow
<ogra> (last one will add additional langpacks)
<nixternal> that is rather disturbing to me
<LaserJock> ogra: do you know how the tasks are done. How are packages added to the edubuntu-{desktop,live} tasks?
<nixternal> to be part of the community, and go for a deal elsewhere before actually helping out with something the community is trying to do right now
<ogra> LaserJock, no, i only know how they are handled in the metapackages, but its easy to find out ...
<BonBonTheJon> !pastebin > bonbonthejon
<highvoltage> wow, the edubuntu cd is relatively small :)
<ogra> yep, some space for langpacks
<BonBonTheJon> can someone look over my Concepts: Networks and Networking, I think I am almost done
<BonBonTheJon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27987/
* highvoltage has trouble with rsync again
<highvoltage> my rsync command is rsync -a --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20061023/edgy-install-i386.iso edgy-install-i386.iso edgy-install-i386.iso
<highvoltage> and it says "@ERROR: Unknown module 'edubuntu'
<highvoltage> is there something wrong with my rsync command?
<BonBonTheJon> highvoltage: at the end you have the iso twice
<cbx33> Guten Abends
<BonBonTheJon> Guten Tag
<ogra> highvoltage, its rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/
<highvoltage> BonBonTheJon: I'm sure it worked like that before. I tried it with one iso and it didn't work either
<ogra> also use -az ;) it compresses the network traffic
<cbx33> ogra, basically we're looking at a total rewrite
<cbx33> for SCP right>
<cbx33> ?
<ogra> not really
<ogra> just split whats there into front and backend
<cbx33> just shifting stuff around....
<highvoltage> ogra: great! that works :)
<cbx33> yeh I suppose
<cbx33> it's gonna be so cool once it's done
<cbx33> did you get a chance o see the spec?
<ogra> it will only be *some* glue coding, most can be copy and paste
<highvoltage> cbx33: is your rsync tool in universe yet?
<ogra> not yet, did you propose it for uds already ?
<cbx33> yes I did
<cbx33> yesterday
<cbx33> as I knew it was the deadline
<ogra> cbx33, LP url ?
<cbx33> highvoltage, not yet
<cbx33> ogra, I'll just get it
<cbx33> ogra, https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/student-control-panel-upgrade
<cbx33> highvoltage, I'm hoping o get it in for feisty
<cbx33> or fiesty
<highvoltage> great
<cbx33> whichever..
<cbx33> it works....just needs a little updating as the iso names have changed I believe
<ogra> cbx33, ok, i subscribed as essential subscriber, lets see how it raises its priority
<cbx33> ogra, it probably needs other fields filled it
<cbx33> s/it/in
<ogra> (specs of atendees are more likely to be accepted)
<cbx33> I didn't fill in the drafter or stuff
<cbx33> whois the drafter?
<ogra> thats fine
<sbalneav> I have a bug for rsyncer.sh
<ogra> sbalneav, i didnt maintain it a while :)
<ogra> whats the bug ?
<sbalneav> needs to support --flavour 
<cbx33> ogra, dude that thing needs to go into universe
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> then it could be a dep of grasynco
<sbalneav> For those of us who spell with the Queen's English :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, hahaha
<ogra> i thought you integrated it into the grasynco package
<cbx33> yeh....but seeing as you still make changes to it ;)
<ogra> sbalneav, aww, right ... i'll fix that what flavors do you like ? lemon and ginger i guess if its the quees english :)
<ogra> *queens
<sbalneav> hmmm
<sbalneav> oin$ ~/rsyncer.sh --arch i386 --create ubuntu --flavor live
<sbalneav> touching file ./ubuntu/edgy-live-i386.iso
<sbalneav> receiving file list ... 
<sbalneav> rsync: link_stat "/daily-live/current/edgy-live-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
<sbalneav> 0 files to consider
<sbalneav> sent 4 bytes  received 17 bytes  8.40 bytes/sec
<sbalneav> total size is 0  speedup is 0.00
<sbalneav> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(1298) [receiver=2.6.8] 
<ogra> there are no ubuntu isos named "live" anymore, right
<ogra> its desktop :)
<sbalneav> ah
<BonBonTheJon> ogra: they all are live
<ogra> thats hardcoded in the script iirc
<BonBonTheJon> liv cds
<cbx33> yup it is ogra 
<cbx33> and they differ beween edubuntu to ubuntu
<ogra> for desktop we'll have it easier in the future :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> our live iso will also be called desktop
<sbalneav> rsync: link_stat "/daily/current/edgy-desktop-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
<cbx33> hmm...gnome is slow on this lappy
<ogra> and install will be renamed "server"
<cbx33> think xfce would be quicker?
<Dheeraj_k> ubuntu>kubuntu>edubuntu = full of bug 
<LaserJock> I <3 awk, but sed hates me :/
<cbx33> there seems o be live missing
<BonBonTheJon> any one have a minute to review a handbook page
<ogra> yeah, for live its daily-live/
<cbx33> and the iso is called live
<ogra> for install/alternate its daily/
<ogra> cbx33, not the ubuntu one
<cbx33> oh Ithought he was doing edubuntu
<ogra>  ~/rsyncer.sh --arch i386 --create ubuntu --flavor live was his command :)
<ogra> i'll throw rsyncer in bzr afetr release, then people can take it and do want they liek with it :)
<LaserJock> just don't make and silly icon restrictions ;-)
<LaserJock> or we'll have to call it freersyncer
<cbx33> xfce runs gnome apps right?
<BonBonTheJon> cbx33: yeah
<highvoltage> syncweasel
<LaserJock> anything will run gnome apps
<LaserJock> highvoltage: excellent
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, the same way it runs kde apps
<LaserJock> cbx33: it runs gtk apps more precisely
<cbx33> ah cool
<cbx33> LaserJock, *bah* you knew what I meant
<highvoltage> cbx33: xubuntu install gtk apps only, so if you want to run gnome or kde apps you just need the libs for them installed
<cbx33> ok...how do install xfce
<LaserJock> apt-get install xfce4
<cbx33> apt-get install xfce-desktop
<cbx33> ahh ok
<LaserJock> well, there are other things you can get too but xfce4 will get you the basics
<highvoltage> cbx33: xubuntu-desktop will get you a better collection of packages, imho
<highvoltage> but if you just want a very basic xfce installation, then yes, xfce-desktop
<cbx33> ok doing 
<cbx33> how will that affect edubutnu-dexktop
<cbx33> do I get a switcher at gdm login?
<highvoltage> you can choose it at the session chooser
<highvoltage> (in gdm)
<LaserJock> cbx33: by the way, the Edubuntu artwork is looking very nice
<BonBonTheJon> who should I mail an entry for the handbook to
<cbx33> LaserJock, ty
<LaserJock> cbx33: I can actually use it for every day use without killing my eyes
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> ....I'll pass that onto lisa
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, please pass on to lisa, it's way, way, way better than the artork in the previous version
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> LaserJock, i had many complaints about it being to saturated ... :) but i like it as well as it is :)
<cbx33> and hopefully next release will be even better
<ogra> ++
<cbx33> Lisa is looking forward to actually getting a team together this release
<cbx33> as it'll hopefully be a 6 monther we'll have alot more time
<cbx33> ogra, has the deadline for specs passed now?
<ogra> i think its today, yes
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that' cool
<ogra> i have my specs in so far
<cbx33> at least I got the most essential one in
<ogra> i'll try to take care for the SCP one
<ogra> as a mentor in MV
<cbx33> thank you ogra 
<LaserJock> what deadline?
<LaserJock> there was a deadline?
<ogra> the spec submission deadline mdz set ...
<ogra> yes, today afaik
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> why do I always miss these announcements
<LaserJock> how in the world are we supposed to add Edubuntu specs after Edgy is released if the deadline is today?
<ogra> because you are not subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce ?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Too busy shooting lasers at things? :)
<cbx33> bbiab
<LaserJock> sbalneav: laser? what's that? research? what research? :-)
<sbalneav> You know, that thing you do when you're not working on Edubuntu? :)
<sbalneav> Yeehaw!  Just tested my sbalneav@edubuntu.org email and it works!
<tideline> BonBonTheJon, do you still need someone to look at that networks stuff?
<BonBonTheJon> tideline: no, my friend looked at it, I have some changes to make, I might need you later :)
<tideline> ok just let me know
<BonBonTheJon> thanks
<sky123_> good afternoon guys 
<stelis> Afternoon
<stelis> Were you achandra yesterday? 
<sky123_> yep 
<sky123_> this is the other handle :) 
<sky123_> at work 
<sky123_> sky123---also known as----achandra 
<stelis> :). Did you figure out your NIC problem?
<sky123_> I tried to post up on the schooltool page....but couldnt find too much about the "grading" module...i think its in alpha...but im super interested in that 
<sky123_> OHH....yeah....good old F12 on the Sony brought up netboot and BAM it worked like a charm 
<stelis> I still don't like Sony, but at least it works :) 
<stelis> WRT Schooltool, you could try asking on #ubuntu-education
<stelis> Or the Education mailing list
<sky123_> ahh...yeah...highvoltage did mention that 
<sky123_> how do I get on it again...ie..place to sign up??
<stelis> lists.ubuntu.com
<stelis> That's the main page for all the mailing lists
<sky123_> nice thnx 
* highvoltage fades out
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone!
<stelis> Goodnight
<highvoltage> night stelis!
<tideline> night highvoltage 
<sbalneav> Evening all, be on later.
<LaserJock> ogra: I added https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
<JSWAU> Anyone know how to uninstall games like solitare, and the like in edubuntu?
<Burgwork> JSWAU: get rid of the gnome-games package
<nixternal> hey, <title></title> for the Edubuntu - Firefox start page needs to be fixed to say ->     <title>Welcome to Edubuntu 6.10! - Firefox</title>
<JSWAU> It won't let me. It gives me some error.
<nixternal> ogra: ^^ concerning the <title> for the ff start page in edubuntu
<Burgwork> JSWAU: what error?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: probably wants to remove edubuntu-desktop
<JSWAU> Ahh...
<Burgwork> JSWAU: you can remove that, but remember to readd it back in when you upgrade
<Burgwork> that issue is solved for edgy
<JSWAU> What does removing that do?
<Burgwork> e-desktop is a meta package that contains nothing
<Burgwork> merely deps on the needed packages
<JSWAU> Oh.
<JSWAU> So, I can remove it, and then Gnome-Games. Without effecting the Educational Games that are installed?
<Burgwork> yes
<JSWAU> Cool, Thanks. :-)
#edubuntu 2006-10-24
<lguerra> Riched: ping
<neurogeek> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I haven't seen mhz recently
<jsgotangco> lguerra: he's most likely asleep at this time
<lguerra> jsgotangco: tks
<lguerra> neurogeek: What you need mhz? I tomorrow speak with him, desire that tell him something?  
<neurogeek> lguerra, oh thanks.. please tell him that i've been madly looking for him.. i need to speak with him 
<lguerra> neurogeek: ok.
<lguerra> highvoltage, Who can collaborate me to change the wikiname in the wiki official?  
<lguerra> neurogeek: ping
<neurogeek> lguerra, hello
<stelis> nixternal: I've finished this section: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/p4-docandsup.xml
<keltorsori> anybody here have experience with ppc clients?
<keltorsori> good evening
<keltorsori> anyone have any experience with ppc clients?
<keltorsori> i've got a bead on a lab full of imacs and want to use them as ltsp clients. i assume i need to build a new chroot with ppc?
<highvoltage> morning edubuntuland
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RichEd> hey jono
<RichEd> Editing your LoCo page at the moment.
<jono> hey
<jono> cool :)
<jsgotangco> heya
<willvdl> jsgotangco, hey
<willvdl> http://www.innovateonline.info/ OSS features for OCt/Nov
<jsgotangco> OHHHHHHHH
<jsgotangco> this is nice!
<jsgotangco> willvdl: i should subscribe here
<willvdl> it is very nice 
<willvdl> How many folk in the UK are familiar with http://www.intute.ac.uk/ ?
<stelis> I haven't heard of them
<stelis> I know of OSS Watch
<stelis> Fundined by JISC
<stelis> But that's never really caught fire
<stelis> Oh, right
<stelis> This is for general Web resources
<stelis> Like a kind of DMOZ for academia
<willvdl> yip. will have to go through it.
<willvdl> stelis, familiar with EDNA?
<stelis> My first thought was that search engine integration for this would rock
<stelis> willvdl: No, fraid not
<willvdl> Aussie edu network. Apparantly it is the bomb, from content to libraries to resources to management to authoring...
<stelis> Is this material available to poms?
<willvdl> don't know really.
<willvdl> might not be relevant 
<willvdl> but the portal/structure/methadology is very very interesting
<jsgotangco> these links are nice
<stelis> Yep
<stelis> Got to run...train to catch
<stelis> Bye all
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know who's working on the release announcement?
<RichEd> highvoltage: I think silbs is putting together an Ubuntu and Edubuntu and Kubuntu general release
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> RichEd, are you sure ? 
<jsgotangco> hey
<ogra> yo
<ogra> * Languages: zh es bn hi ar xh pt ru ja de 
<ogra> ;)
<RichEd> ogra: I will confirm with her now, but she asked me / you for 3 top features for Edubuntu 6.06 yesterday
<ogra> pitti just added a ton of langpacks to the CDs :)
<ogra> RichEd, i know, but i thought for final we'd have separate notes 
<jsgotangco> ogra: we seem to have space lately
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> ~15M on i386 
<RichEd> ogra: sorry please expand on that comment ^^ ?
<jsgotangco> I was surprised to see the build w/o langpacks at 650+MB
<ogra> RichEd, i thought we'd do combined notes for the milestone releases, but for the final one we'd have separate release notes
<jsgotangco> Wow edubuntu rel notes would be way different because of ltsp
<ogra> well
<ogra> ubuntu release notes will have a lot about ltsp already i guess
<jsgotangco> Ahhh
<ogra> so we can only put up the integration bit here
<RichEd> ogra: I am asking Silbs who is coordinating Edgy press releases, and then will find out (1) what is already planned and (2) ask for advance copies. We can then discuss what gaps need to be addressed. 
<ogra> oki
<RichEd> ogra: We can plan a full detailed release for our mail lists, and then use that info in different formats for other outlets.
<ogra> no, lets have something thats consistent, lets not do douplicated work
<ogra> *duplicated
<ogra> if we have a combined announcement, lets just point to it on our lists ... else lets make sure it also goes there and not only to the announce list
<jsgotangco> So the relnotes/announce are now done at the office?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I am confirming ...
<jsgotangco> Much less work heh
<ogra> well ....
<ogra> also much less info about what we improved in a combined announcement ... (do dont have as much space)
<jsgotangco> yeah...its not like most people know the innards
<ogra> s/do/you/
<bddebian> Howdy
<highvoltage> howdy bddebian!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> good afternoon sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: have you ever seen a udev error message on the clients while booting?
<highvoltage> I came across that error during testing the past weekend, but it doesn't seem like anyone else have seen it before.
<highvoltage> I'm hoping that it was just a unique glitch
<sbalneav> What was the error?
<bddebian> Hello highvoltage, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello bddebian
<highvoltage> sbalneav: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/67383
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20061024.3/ <-- if thats not broken it will be the release :)
<highvoltage> :-D
<highvoltage> ogra: this isn't a problem in edgy anyore, righ? so it can be resolved?
<highvoltage> ogra: this isn't a problem in edgy anyore, righ? so it can be resolvedhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/47304
<highvoltage> lag--
<ogra> yeah, its sdolved, even thin clients should have the right cursor after boot now
<highvoltage> ogra: the education icon that was missing, could that be solved in time?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but in an upgrade
<highvoltage> ok
<sbalneav> rsyncer.sh for the win!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I believe the correct term these days is ftw
<juliux> highvoltage, ping
<RichEd> hey juliux, sbalneav 
<juliux> hi RichEd 
<juliux> so my edgy update is finished without a problem
<highvoltage> juliux: pong
<juliux> highvoltage, you said a long time ago that i should create/install something on my server for edubuntugirl but i forgot it
<highvoltage> juliux: this is a strange co-incidence, I was just busy installing edubuntu girl stuff right now on another server
<highvoltage> juliux: we'll have her back shortly :)
<juliux> highvoltage, ah ok
<juliux> highvoltage,  i saw your account today on my server and i was wondering because you loged in only one time;)
<highvoltage> juliux: really? i remember loggin g in more.
<juliux> highvoltage, ok one or two times
<juliux> highvoltage, i have the rest of the logs on an other computer;)
<highvoltage> 9two might be right. I couldn't do much without those modules :/
<highvoltage> lag--
<nixternal> hey, where are all of the Edubuntu docs stored and worked on?  not talking about the handbook, but rather the About Edubuntu, Release Notes, Desktop Guides, and the Browser Start Page?
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<cbx33> nixternal, are they not i nthe doc repo?
<nixternal> not that i can tell, i went ahead and grabbed the source, edited the file, added info to the changelog, and then created a debdiff, attached it to a bug i just filed
<nixternal> ogra_ or anyone who can fix it ->  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/68002
<cbx33> ogra did you get my updated usplash
<ogra> yes, its in
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> nixternal: sorry, my gaim crashed ... what was the bug number ?
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/68002
<ogra> oh, thats fixed long ago ... some time before RC
<nixternal> i also noticed the edubuntu-artwork package is using Standards-Version: 3.6.7 instead of 3.7.2..i didn't build with the new standards, as I figured I would leave that up to the professionals
<nixternal> well, the title is still wrong, even in the source i downloaded today
<ogra> hmpf
<nixternal> heh
<ogra> we cant rebuild the CDs anymore 
<cbx33> Confirmed
<ogra> unless there is a heavy blocker
<cbx33> so this is it?
<cbx33> did we get everything done?
<ogra> and your dendiff only contains a changelog entry
<cbx33> that's what I thought too
<ogra> *debdiff
<nixternal> mine shows the edits
<ogra> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4932716/edubuntu-artwork.debdiff
<cbx33> nixternal, check the LP page one
<nixternal> ya, that isn't even close to being the same
<nixternal> lp did that
<nixternal> i know why..i didn't select "patch"
<nixternal> now check it out
<cbx33> that's better
<nixternal> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4932736/edubuntu-artwork.debdiff
<nixternal> hehe
<ogra> right :)
<cbx33> nixternal, did we sort out about the images in the handbook repo?
<ogra> if we have to rebuild the CDs for some reason i'll try to get it in, else it will have to wait for -updates
<nixternal> kind of funny how it was being rendered as a webpage just by not selecting patch..that was cool
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> ogra, how is the mood now?
<cbx33> I mean ubuntu wise
<cbx33> gearing down a little?
<nixternal> scpdisconnect.jpg  scpexec.jpg  scpkill.jpg  scpmain.jpg  scpmess.jpg  scpprocs.jpg
<nixternal> those are the images i see there
<nixternal> that are in the binaryredneck svn
<nixternal> i have those, and then some in the doc repo svn, such as the Edubuntu logos
<cbx33> right....but in my scp doc....do I just link relative to those image names
<nixternal> that is fine
<nixternal> i can do any fixing necessary if the dir structure changes at all
<nixternal> im hoping to call a meeting concerning the handbook, there is no way it will be out for Edgy, and trying to do so would be a huge mistake, i think it needs some time right now, to pick up more content
<nixternal> i think if we were to finish every section we have planned, it would still be naked
<nixternal> RichEd: ^^  about another Handbook meeting if possible
<nixternal> i shall return..i have to sign some documents to provide the government for my educational benefits ;)  bbiaf
<sbalneav> I agree, but is there any chance of posting what content there is as html pages, or wiki pages somewhere?
<sbalneav> There's some useful LTSP info in there that it would be handy to be able to refer people to.
* sbalneav googles for docbook2moin :)
<cbx33> nixternal, you gone?
<sbalneav> \o/ for -bigiron kernel!  Now my x3550 Ibm server can see all 5 gigs of ram!
<nixternal> im here, 
<nixternal> preparing some faxes now
<ogra-thin> looks good :)
<nixternal> moinmoin2docbook is there, just not to good right now..we are working with that, as it is a Google SoC project
<nixternal> i don't see why we wouldn't be able to convert the pages into something useful though..i will look into that
<sbalneav> nixternal: It wouldn't be that hard: an exercise in text processing.
<sbalneav> Could probably get close with a 40 line awk program.
<sbalneav> ogra-thin: You're already a skinny dude.
<sbalneav> Phhht: IBM "We recommend Red Hat Enterprise Linux for our xServer line"
<sbalneav> Nuts to that, says I :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, ++
<nixternal> sbalneav: no need to script anything, there are plenty of applications to do what we need, xml to html is easy, and i already have the scripts to do that, i also have a fop connection to export docbook to pdf as well
<nixternal> anywho, lunch time...bbiab
<keltorsori> anyone running any ppc clients?
<keltorsori> anyone actually here today?
<LaserJock> I am
<keltorsori> anyone noticed that terminal users on an xubuntu ltsp setup can shutdown the main system?
<keltorsori> seems like a serious problem
<pygi> keltorsori: the same problem with gnome existed/exists
<keltorsori> new edubuntu allows users only to log off (6.10), no shutdown or hibernate options
<pygi> keltorsori: I know :)
<pygi> you could do the same in dapper with tweaking
<keltorsori> this is a problem with xfce?
<pygi> no, with it's configuration
<pygi> perhaps you could also tweak it
<keltorsori> which by the way, i just got a couple of norhtec microclient jrs (http://norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html) for testing out. these things are absolutely ridiculously tiny and pxe boot out of the box just fine
<keltorsori> pygi: any pointers towards where i might find the configuration info needed to fix this?
<pygi> keltorsori: #xubuntu ^_^
<pygi> keltorsori: gconf keys
<keltorsori> pygi: thanks, i tried the xubuntu chann, nobody there knows anything, but i think i can figure it out
<pygi> keltorsori: start the gconf-editor pls ^_^
<keltorsori> xubuntu only has xfce, no gnome
<pygi> oh, oh, right , sorry :P
<keltorsori> thanks though:)
<pygi> no worries, if only I could help you :P
<pygi> keltorsori: if you're willing to instruct. we could make xfce behave better on feisty ^_^
<keltorsori> pygi: well when i get it figured out, i'll let everyone know
<pygi> oki, thanks ^_^
<keltorsori> too bad i didn't catch this earlier
<pygi> yea :(
<_MMA_> Hello guys.
<_MMA_> I have a question.
<_MMA_> Im working on Ubuntu Studio. I need to setup a custom default setup on install using Gnome.
<Burgwork> _MMA_: you need to create meta packages
<_MMA_> Meaning we arent using the same one as Ubuntu. We want to change it. Any direction is appreciated.
<Burgwork> I suggest you talk to the #ichthux people
<_MMA_> Do they stray from the default layout?
<Burgwork> yes
<_MMA_> Are they on Freenode?
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> #ichthux
<_MMA_> Ill do that.
<Burgwork> they do KDE, so they can help you with the meta packages
<_MMA_> Im using Gnome.
<Burgwork> for the gnome specific bits, you need to look into edubuntu-artwork and ubuntu-artwork
<_MMA_> They sent me elsewhere. :) Im kinda chasing my tail.
<Burgwork> what do you need?
<Burgwork> changed artwrok?
<Burgwork> applications installed by default?
<Burgwork> the latter icthux can help you with
<Burgwork> the former, you need to look at edubuntu and ubuntu-artwork (the actual package)
<_MMA_> to change art and how the default environment looks.
<Burgwork> what parts?
<Burgwork> panel? menu?
<_MMA_> ie: Ubuntu-Gnome has 2 panels by default. We want 1.
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> that is slightly harder
<Burgwork> I don't know why you want to change that much
<_MMA_> I just kinda need to know what package installs the defaults.xml file, I can edit that.
<Burgwork> for the panel? gnome-panel
<Burgwork> but then you run into the issue that ubuntu-studio should be in tree, not some custom hack
<_MMA_> ?
<Burgwork> if you change the gnome-panel package, you have issues
<Burgwork> it means you cannot insatll ubuntu and ubuntu-studio alongside
<Burgwork> do you guys have an irc channel?
<_MMA_> #ubuntustudio Freenode.
<Burgwork> lets  move there
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I'm an Ichthux person 
<mhz> hey ya'all
<schoolinux> Hi,Is edgy coming this week?
<Burgwork> yes
<schoolinux> when exactly? i think it was set to 26th oct. means tomorrow, right?
<Burgwork> tomorrow in your timezone, maybe
<schoolinux> Bugwork where can i find something about features in edubuntu 6.10?
<edgarin> Hi to all
<edgarin> I have a problem with a Edubuntu
<edgarin> the computer dont boot
<edgarin> and the grub shows a error 24
<edgarin> what is this?
<BonBonTheJon> edgarin: has this computer worked before
#edubuntu 2006-10-25
<bddebian> Howdy
<sbalneav> Evening all!
<ikks> @search packages
<ikks> @search paquetes
<ikks> @list
<BonBonTheJon> ikks: what are you trying to do
<ikks> sorry, wrong channel, the bot is in #ubuntu-es :)
<ikks> oops
<BonBonTheJon> ikks: there is a bot here
<BonBonTheJon> !packages
<ubotu> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords>", the "apt:/" URL in KDE, or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com  -  Ubuntu has about 18000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<bimberi> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<bimberi> :)
<BonBonTheJon> thanks bimberi
<bimberi> BonBonTheJon: np :)
<ikks> thx bimberi
<ikks> !list
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<ikks> This bot rocks :)
<ikks> !version
<ubotu> To find out what version of Ubuntu you have, type 'lsb_release -a' in the Terminal.
<ikks> I see, supybot :)
<bimberi> !msg the bot
<ubotu> Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots  -  Abusing the channel bots will only result in angry ops... ;-)
<bimberi> ;)
<ikks> really kind, thanks a lot, have a wonderful time :)
<sky123> hello.For those using LTSP portion of edubuntu what kind of server do you have to support 40 clients?
<sbalneav> sky123: For 40 clients, you'd probably want something fairly beefy.
<sky123> that is concurrent users? 
<sbalneav> At least a gig of ram, and a 3 ghz or better CPU
<sbalneav> You'd be better with about 2 gigs of ram.
<sbalneav> Yes, 40 concurrent.
<sky123> I see 
<sky123> I am trying " sell the idea" to a school Im working with and the arguements are " well if go to wallmart the os is already loaded...etc.etc" my counterpoint has been trying to deal with management overhead..etc..
<sky123> what would be the advantage of ltsp..i gues... 
<sky123> is what im asking 
<sbalneav> Do they already have some older PC's?
<sbalneav> Because if they do, then you can re-use them.  
<sbalneav> Rather than buying 40 $300 boxes, and have no server to tie them together, just 40 disconnected machines,
<sky123> right 
<sbalneav> You could spend 1 x 3000 for one GOOD server, re-use the 40 old clunkers you've already got.
<sbalneav> PLUS, thown into the bargain, you get:
<sky123> and deployment of course is much easier 
<sbalneav> administration tools, edu software, networking, backups, etc etc etc.
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: consolemanager
<sbalneav> exactly.
<Burgundavia> do you have time to talk about that?
<sky123> how do you manage the backups on the master? 
<sky123> ie documents 
<sky123> etc 
<sbalneav> consolemanager?
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: the bit that tells which usb port goes to which seat
<sky123> consolemanager?---has backup capabilities?
<sbalneav> Ubuntu comes with a nice little backup utility now.  If you;ve got a DVD or CD writer, you can just back up on those.
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: You mean, localdevices?
<sky123> ....what is it called??
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: yes, that
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: davidz and I were talking in Boston
<sbalneav> heh, it's called localdevices, not consolemanager.  That's a bit I wrote. :)
<Burgundavia> about a general thingy to control that, whether it be thin clients, fusa or multiseat
<Burgundavia> davidz called it console manager
<sky123> i see 
<sky123> I want to know whether such a system would be also safe to double up as a potential school tool server or as a file repository for non thinclients 
<Burgundavia> sky123: we are talking about something differrent
<sky123> or are we talking about a dedicated server 
<sky123> Burgundavia: yeah I got that 
<sky123> :) 
<sbalneav> sky123: Yes, edubuntu comes with Samba, so it can serve Windows boxes as well.
<sky123> is that acting as a PDC?
<sky123> or ??
<sbalneav> I don't beleive it acts as a pdc as of yet, I think that's on the speccing process to add for the next release.
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> needs samba4
<sbalneav> But it can act as a standalone server.
<sky123> k...so the sahring of a public folder etc...is there.. 
<sky123> and using some of the native backup tools has the potential to backup to cdrom or whatever 
<sbalneav> yes
<sky123> x the wahtever part...to what??
<sbalneav> Sorry, not understanding you?
<sbalneav> What is it you're asking?
<sky123> im sorry for not being clearer...but i guess im asking what is the tool for backing up to say cdrom or dvd or prescribed best methodology to back up the server...I could find little in google or wiki to actually do this. 
<sbalneav> Well, I beleive the tool's called hubackup
<Burgundavia> it is
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: back to this console manager stuff
<whiprush> sbalneav: sky123: If you guys mean an NT4 domain, then yeah, normal samba3 can do that.
<sbalneav> Hey whiprush
<whiprush> hubackup just does user stuff, not a whole server.
<whiprush> his scott!
<sbalneav> Correct.
<whiprush> he'll want like backuppc or something for that
<sky123> or use like mondoarchive 
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: what about it?
<whiprush> sky123: I just deployed a new server for this, what's your price range?
<whiprush> sky123: yeah whatever tool you're used to will work
<sky123> well i was looking at around 1600 bucks 
<sky123> but that may be pushing it 
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> pushing it price-wise?
<sky123> yep 
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: how much of that code is fairly generic?
<whiprush> sky123: RAM is key IMO.
<sky123> i ebayed and trouble finding one...with say like 4gb of memory at a good price 
<whiprush> I would shoot for an AMD64 machine with as much ram as you can cram in there.
<sky123> right...
<sbalneav> I'm confused.  Are you talking about localdevices?  As in, being able to plug USB, cdroms and floppies into thin clients?
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> That's not called console manager.
<whiprush> sky123: have you looked at penguincomputing?
<sbalneav> That's called localdevices.
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: sorry, that is what davidz was talking about
<sky123> no not yet...just a bunch of supermicro stuff...or servers that go used at trade shows.....lol 
<whiprush> yeah
<sbalneav> And define, "fairly generic"? I.e. are yus asking if it can be made to run on other linux distros?
<whiprush> supermicro hell, been there myself. :-/
<sky123> lol 
<sky123> damn man....nothing is easy in education 
<sky123> ;) 
<whiprush> indeed.
<whiprush> sky123: you could try the multi-faceted approach too
<whiprush> buy one server for like ... 20 clients.
<whiprush> and when people see how well it works
<whiprush> use that as justification for funds for another one
<sky123> hmmm...yeah this is a good suggestion 
<whiprush> because people won't believe the thin client thing
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: Is that what you're wanting to know?
<whiprush> until they SEE it working
<whiprush> then the lightbulb goes off
<sky123> i dont think they will ever be used concurrently all the time....but id rather NOT err on that lapse of judgement.... 
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: well, userful does multiseat stuff. Our current crack is slightly insane
<sky123> right 
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: I am looking for more sane stuff ath could be made generic and pushed into something like HAL
<whiprush> sky123: no matter how big your box is you'll never have enough.
<whiprush> so the best thing to do is just to look at value vs. cost.
<sbalneav> Sorry you think the stuff I wrote is "slightly insane".
<whiprush> sbalneav: he means his company's crack
<whiprush> not yours
<sbalneav> I'm completely confused here.
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: no, our crack is insane
<whiprush> sbalneav: although i think you're insane, but that's for other reasons. :p
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: userful does multiseat X
<sbalneav> Who's userful?
<Burgundavia> our current code patches the world to make local devices work
<Burgundavia> the company I work for
<sbalneav> ah, is this a commercial product?
<Burgundavia> yes, but built on FC4
<Burgundavia> that is not important right now
<Burgundavia> what is important is that you have written saner stuff to solve a similar problem
<sky123> got another question...from the terminal clients themselves...if a kid pops in a usb pen with their doc or has a floppy..is there a way for them to load there docs or no....oh and sound?? 
<sbalneav> Then you may be interested in helping Warren Togami and Eric Harrison in the Fedora port of LTSP, which includes ltspfs.
<Burgundavia> perfect
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: we chatted in Montreal back in Nov of last year
* Burgundavia is Corey Burger
<whiprush> sky123: upstream ltsp does, dunno if the new edubuntu does. 
<whiprush> sky123: i'm here to learn too, heh.
<sky123> :) 
<Burgundavia> as of edgy, yes
<whiprush> awesome
<sky123> but edgy is not the "stable" release yet...its still "rc"?
<Burgundavia> now somebody needs to get some open source code working on those sun rays
<Burgundavia> sky123: edgy is 3 days away
<sky123> nice :) 
<sky123> so sound support and ability to use the client to load say a document is there???
<sky123> whoah 
<sky123> that is cool 
<sky123> via floppy or usb that is... 
<whiprush> Burgundavia: i'm bringing three sunrays to mountain view with hopes of giving them away, and I gave ogra and I (think) sbalneav one.
<Burgundavia> score
<sky123> i need one :) 
<sky123> those are Sun Boxes?
<Burgundavia> what chipset is in a sunray?
<sky123> opteron 
<Burgundavia> sun thin clients
<sbalneav> whiprush: I've become convinced that what they chiefly need is a proper boot rom to them
<Burgundavia> serious? not sparc?
<sbalneav> I can't get them to boot anything useful
<sky123> i just saw one todau on  ebay ...uhmmm VG something that opteron processors 
<whiprush> sbalneav: I've been scouring google for years, I've yet not seen anyone be successful with them to do anything useful.
<sky123> but I have plenty T100 hundreds here at home...$150 a pop for simple stuff...with sparc processors...lol 
<sky123> the sparc version..works well... nagios, cacti, etc.. 
<whiprush> sbalneav: BUT ... Sun has "committed" to oss'ing the sun ray server software, so when that day comes, at least you guys will be all set to go to making it work, heh.
<sky123> :) 
<whiprush> they have an Ultrasparc II or something in them
<whiprush> thin client
<whiprush> they're basically useless without the sun server software.
<Burgundavia> so you get a binary blob
<Burgundavia> lovely
<whiprush> they are very popular with universities though
<whiprush> and most just warehouse them when they move off of solaris.
<Burgundavia> educational institutions often don't know what todo with them
<Burgundavia> todo with IT, rather
<whiprush> I got 60 for free and I have 300 more on tap for the cost of shipping.
<whiprush> and that's just me.
<whiprush> I am sure I'm not the only one.
<sbalneav> Well, thin client booted out of the box.
<whiprush> I have a feeling that when sun open sources the stuff that someone will have ltsp working on it with a day or two.
<sbalneav> Edubuntu testing going well.
<whiprush> sbalneav: any news from eric or warren on their fedora efforts?
<sky123> whiprush: these are client versions ??? 
<whiprush> sky123: ?
<sbalneav> I haven;t heard anything as of late.  I think jammcq may have been in touch.
<sky123> whiprush: the sun stuff you have access to 
<whiprush> sky123: sun sells these thin clients, but they're proprietary.
<whiprush> think closed sourced ltsp.
<whiprush> but they have promised to open source it
<sky123> i saw this: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/linux_terminal_server?page=0%2C1 and the use of these sun rays 
<sky123> same thing??
<whiprush> same idea
<whiprush> two incompatible implementations
<whiprush> you can use any PC with LTSP
<whiprush> if you use sunrays, you need to buy them from Sun.
<whiprush> and run their software on the server.
<whiprush> sky123: long story short, if you never end up using their client software and their proprietary hardware, then you're good.
<sky123> lol 
<whiprush> edubuntu CD and some old machines, and you'll be all set.
<sky123> cool 
<whiprush> I have 300 of these damn Sun things, and I am /hoping/ that someday it might work as well as LTSP/edubuntu.
<Burgundavia> they are just hardware devices
<Burgundavia> it cannot be that difficult
<sbalneav> Well, getting near midnight here, heading to bed.
<sbalneav> night all
<whiprush> sbalneav: nite dude
<lotusleaf> Halloween is almost upon us, and you know that that means: clean out your closet of those spare Ubuntu Ship-It CDs you may have, duct tape a Snickers bar to them if you have to, just give them out!!
<sky123> Are these any good?? SUN FIRE V20Z DUAL OPTERON 248
<BonBonTheJon> lotusleaf: lol, thats great
<lotusleaf> BonBonTheJon: =)
<sky123> better yet the trick would be to hand them the winxp disk
<sky123> no nutritional value 
<BonBonTheJon> sky123: you got that kind of money?
<sky123> who said i bought it ;) 
<BonBonTheJon> sky123: I like your thinking :)
<sky123> lol 
<sky123> hopefully Mark will the next version of ubuntu "doors" 
<sky123> that would just piss off the right people 
<lotusleaf> sky123: I'd rather hand someone a clump of cow feces, at least that has some use, in the garden
<sky123> hehe rofl
<BonBonTheJon> windows cd's make nice cup holder
<BonBonTheJon> or, I want to make a CD disco ball
<sky123> only then al gore would be all over you for contributing to green house gases with methane release
<sky123> or crow chasers...if you hang them from a string in the corn fields. 
<sky123> thats about it 
<sky123> or piss people off and ship them back to bill and melidina gates for their foundation for halloween....lol 
<sky123> ahh..such pent up anger....
<sky123> <------needs anti m$ valium 
<sky123> hey does someone know the difference between the xeon dp processors and one's that come in the server rack models??
<LinuxRetard> anyone adept at wireless and feeling helpful tonight?
<Burgundavia> LinuxRetard: your nick is a little offensive
<sky123> lol 
<LinuxRetard> Edubuntu on two of my kiddies pcs.  1 works wireless...one doesn't.
<sky123> same laptop??
<LinuxRetard> I am humble enough to admit my handicap
<Burgundavia> however, I find you nick a little offensive
<Burgundavia> please change it
<sky123> yeah...considering it is an education channel...id have to agree 
<LinuxRetard> thanx anywayz
<sky123> not the proper terminology.....change it...and i can help....
<sky123> oh well too l8 
<sky123> Burgundavia: Id have to say you made the right call on that one... 
<Burgundavia> sad he felt he had to leave
<sky123> just had to change the name thats all...and i was more surprised..he didnt try the ubuntu channel..common topic 
<sky123> maybe needed ndiswrapper or something like that.. 
<sky123> oh well 
<Burgundavia> life happens
<willvdl> is any one familiar with the loki installer?
<Burgundavia> willvdl: not really
<Burgundavia> what is the issue?
<willvdl> well I'm working with a content provider
<willvdl> They do data casting etc and provide offline snapshots
<willvdl> mainly static html and FLV
<willvdl> on windows they use installshield
<willvdl> but don't really have a linux install process.
<Burgundavia> right
<highvoltage> gdebi is the way
<Burgundavia> so for Linux, they should be using Linux best practise, which is packaging
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<willvdl> my first though was some kind of deb
<Burgundavia> data only debs are really easy to create
<willvdl> but they snapshots are large (possibly a few dvd's)
<Burgundavia> that is not an issue
<willvdl> okie
<Burgundavia> if they are concerned about cross distro stuff
<Burgundavia> alien is their answer
<willvdl> not really, mainly an ubuntu base
<Burgundavia> then don't worry about it
<willvdl> is gdebi also used to create the deb?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> just for the installing
<Burgundavia> if they need help with packaging, there is help for that
<Burgundavia> MOTU can help them
<willvdl> right. I just need to make sure that whatever they do, the most tech-unsavvy teacher can still install it and will have aaall their dependencies (adobe,flash etc) sorted automatically
<Burgundavia> for that, they will need deb
<Burgundavia> anything else is a hack
<Kamping_Kaiser> wasnt expecting to be back... lets see if i hang around. *waves*
* willvdl waves back
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd-1
<RichEd> hey Burgundavia :)
<willvdl> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hi willvdl : how is johannesburg ?
<willvdl> fruitfull
<willvdl> http://www.unescobkk.org/index.php?id=494 
<willvdl> http://www2.unescobkk.org/education/ict/v2_2/detail.asp?id=44787
<willvdl> Go Phillipines
<RichEd> That is all great link info for the community area + the ones yesterday. 
<willvdl> Burgwork, Highvoltage, thanks for the help
<ogra> Burgundavia, console manager requires a networkable transport layer for hal that doesnt exist yet
<ogra> thats far far in the future
<jelkner> Is there anything special you need to know to dist-upgrade to edgy?
<jelkner> will gksu "update-manager -c -d" work?
<ogra> gksudo, but yes
<jelkner> cool!
<jelkner> thanks
<pips1> good afternoon
<cbx33> hey pips1 
<cbx33> got your email
<cbx33> will take a look alter ;)
<pips1> :)
<lguerra> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> lguerra: pong
<cbx33> pips1, can I ask why the switch and the hub are no the other way round?
<cbx33> and secondly...what did yo udraw that in...it's ace :D
<cbx33> or are you pips1_ at the moment ;)
<pips1_> yep
<pips1_> 1: are you talking about "device C" and "device D" in that question?
<cbx33> yes
<pips1_> 2: shhhh (it was done with MS visio)
<lucasvo> hm, python chalenge is not very easy...
<cbx33> python chalenge?
<lucasvo> *challenge
<lucasvo> http://www.pythonchallenge.com
<cbx33> lucasvo, where are you?
<lucasvo> step 3
<lucasvo> just began today
* cbx33 is on step 2
<pips1_> I figured that I need most network speed on the LTSP network, so that's why I used the gigabit switch (device d) to connect the edub. server with the thin client(s)
<lucasvo> pips1_: don't you know DIA?
<pips1_> lucasvo: I do
<lucasvo> pips1_: so why use visio :P
<jelkner> I just did an update to edgy.  Everything worked like a charm on the server side
<jelkner> but i have a problem on the clients
<pips1_> but for me, it's currently the same problem as with photoshop/gimp... I work much more efficiently with the former :-/
<pips1_> cbx33: why do you think that I should swop the hub and switch?
<jelkner> mount: 192.168.217.254:/opt/ltsp/i386 failed, reason given by server: permission denied
<pips1_> jelkner: are you doing an dapper -> edgy  upgrade on an edubuntu server?
<cbx33> um....because security wise and capability wise
<jelkner> pips1_: yes
<cbx33> you want the switch to be as far towards the source as possible
<pips1_> cbx33: regarding "as far towards the source as possible", well, I did that for the thin client (i.e. in the ltsp network, the edubuntu server is the source)
<jsgotangco> good evening
<cbx33> well....i'de prefer 2 machines off switch than one
<jelkner> pips1_: the client boot process proceeds through dhcp, gets and address, then can't mount /opt/ltsp/i386
<pips1_> cbx33: yeah, I see your point. I just figured that a gigabit switch is a waste in a 10/100 network.. 
<jsgotangco> its ok if you're going to cascade gigabit switches
<pips1_> jelkner: ic. I was just about to start a test for upgrading dapper->edgy on my test setup here...
<pips1_> jsgotangco: cascade them?
<pips1_> jsgotangco: maybe I should send you the network diagram I made... it'll make it easier to discuss :) Should I?
<jsgotangco> stack up switches
<jsgotangco> pips1_: sure email it to me
<pips1_> oki
<jsgotangco> jgotangco@ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> jelkner: dit you get it working? looks like nfs isn't running
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey!
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> nice diagram!
<pips1_> everybody, stop saying that, it was done with MS visio ;-)
<jsgotangco> that's why the icon resources are nice
<jsgotangco> hehe
<pips1_> yeah, the icons look nice
<jsgotangco> ok so the problem is that Edubuntu's DHCP isn't being listend by clients?
<jelkner> pips1_: cool, i beat you to it ;-)
<pips1_> jsgotangco: yes, I think that is the problem
<jelkner> pips1_: any idea what i can do about the permissions problem?
<pips1_> jelkner: sorry, no
<highvoltage> jelkner: it seems like NFS isn't running on your server
<Kamping_Kaiser> a few quick questions: does edubuntu have any quick sabayon howtos? does it need any? (it seems fairly idiot proof, but i havent used it yet ;))
<jsgotangco> pips1_: ok it seems that you'll need to whip up a very custom dhcp conf file for eth0 because it seems eth1 is configured to listen as dhcp as well?
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: not much
<highvoltage> jelkner: have you tried to restart portmap, nfs-common and nfs-kernel-server in that order?
<jelkner> highvoltage: thanks, let me try to start it
<highvoltage> jelkner: and what is in your /etc/exports, you should have an /opt/ltsp/i386 in there
* Kamping_Kaiser hopes it gets OO.o support soon
<jelkner> highvoltage: there was nothing in /etc/exports it got overwritten
<jelkner> so first i add:
<jelkner> /opt/ltsp/i386 to /etc/exports
<pips1_> jsgotangco: I don't know if eth1 is configured to listen to listen as dhcp client... I suppose ogra can tell us? :-)
<highvoltage> let me get the correct line for you...
<jelkner> then restart the services in the order you suggest
<jelkner> ok
<highvoltage> jelkner: "/opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<highvoltage> "
<jelkner> thanks
<jelkner> let me try
<jsgotangco> pips1_: well eth0 is usually your default
<highvoltage> jelkner: after adding that line you will need to restart nfs-kernel-server
<jsgotangco> and that's where dhcpd binds first when seen
<jsgotangco> and since eth1 seems to be the internet gateway, it shouldn't really conflict with eth0 since it doesn't listen to the dhcp broadcast of your applicance (as seen from your diagram)
<cbx33> lucasvo, I'm on lvl3 now
<pips1_> jsgotangco: hmm. right. well, to be honest, I can't remember what I did exactly when I installed edgy... I installed it many times, choosing different options in the installer.. maybe it would be best to start fresh
<pips1_> jsgotangco: what do you think?
<jsgotangco> pips1_: well you need dhcpd so that the client knows where to grab the boot image....
<jsgotangco> you can just try isolating the whole edubuntu network first for testing then enable the other ethernet card
<jsgotangco> just so you can see if dhcpd actually worked
<pips1_> jsgotangco: what do you think is the best approach for my network problem. Should I re-configure my network appliances and try to get edubuntu's automatic network config to work? or should I leave my network appliances configured as they are, and change the edubuntu server config? 
<jsgotangco> don't mess up your appliance since it already works
<pips1_> heh, right
<jsgotangco> you can actually still use your appliance to be the dhcpd server for all but its a bit hackish on the ltsp side
<jelkner> highvoltage: thanks a 10**6! It worked!
<jelkner> now i have another question: isn't edgy supposed to have a new login screen that permits the user to choose language?
<jsgotangco> try isolating the broadcast interface first
<jsgotangco> and see if the client actually gets something
<jelkner> i'm getting the same login screen as before
<pips1_> jsgotangco: well, eth0 hasn't got an IP assigned at all at the moment... 
<jsgotangco> because your aim seems to be that your ltsp client gets internet access from the eth1 interface (which should be eth0's gateway)
<pips1_> right
<highvoltage> jelkner: there was some problems, I don't think ogra removed them
<jsgotangco> pips1_: i think that's the problem, from the diagram, eth0 is your dhcpd
<highvoltage> jelkner: if it's not there, please file a bug
<jelkner> highvoltage: will do
<jelkner> but i'll wait til the official release, yes?
<highvoltage> nope. any time is good :)
<highvoltage> sooner is usually better.
<jsgotangco> today's build is most likely the official release
<highvoltage> most likely
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you receive my email?
* highvoltage checks
<jsgotangco> lol
<pips1_> jsgotangco: so how do I go about it? Should unplug the internet access on the server? or should I edit a config file or smth?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I haven't
<jsgotangco> wahhh?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: inkululeko email
<highvoltage> hmmm... it didn't come through
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> ok
<highvoltage> did you spell my name right? lots of people spell it wrong.
<jsgotangco> well i just replied to your email yseterday
<jsgotangco> unless you spelled your reply to wrong
<jsgotangco> heh
<pips1_> "<jsgotangco> try isolating the broadcast interface first" <-- how?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: anyways, i wanted to ask if you guys in tuxlabs in tsf before had student performance data before and after tuxlabs implementation
<jsgotangco> pips1_: disable it, and look into dhcpd.conf if its set correctly, the best way is to just turn it off with ifconfig
<jsgotangco> the restart the network
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the problem is that we've never done a proper before, we're going to do it for the first time nect year when we roll out into a new province
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: really? as in nil?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's a big issue at the moment, data from our competitor (that uses Windows in labs) were reported last month, and the report shows that there's been no significant improvement
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: not even a sort of "joe sucked in math 3 months ago, but after the tuxlabs rollout, his math grades improved by this percentage"
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the very, very first tuxlabs weren't used for educational purposes, so it wasn't part of the scope
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we have some of that yes
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: would it be because tuxlabs focused more on hardware structure rather than content?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: initially it did, the focus moved to content only 1.5 years into the project
<highvoltage> from 2002 to late 2003, there was little to no content in the labs.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: because in our side, we're not really hot on hardware but our content is solid, we're torn between actually delivering hardware or just improving the content
<highvoltage> back then it was the basic kde edu and gcompris, no localised content, no wikipedia, no government approved curriculum...
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the content is more important, imho
* Kamping_Kaiser investigates sabayon, and finds its confusing - becuase it doesnt operate the same way the homnepage says it will.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we learned that the hard way :)
<jsgotangco> its also because our video content is govenment curriculum
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: and we could make it cross-platform
<highvoltage> from a technical perspective, projects like Edubuntu takes care of many of the difficult things.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: excellent
<pips1_> Kamping_Kaiser: which homepage? 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: so the packaging most likely is that we just dump all content in an ltsp server
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: is it specific to your area? or would it work anywhere?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: its specific
<Kamping_Kaiser> pips1_, http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/sabayon and http://www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon/
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: the videos themselves are localised
<highvoltage> ltsp does make life much, much easier in the labs.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: but we're talking of at least 200 episodes of combined math and science at primary level
<pips1_> *click* and *click*
<Kamping_Kaiser> i like the readme though:   "Hello I'm Daniel Veillard and I pronounce Sabayon 'Sa-ba-yon'"
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: ive actually made a slax demo cd just for proof of concept *shudder*
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah right, sorry, I'm multitasking here. video is tough on thin clients. that's why the diskless-fat-client spec is so important to me
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ogra is taking it very seriously, and is addement to add it to feisty
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: im not looking at edgy here, its actually feisty or feisty+1
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: when are you looking at roll-out?
<jsgotangco> because digitising the video itself eats so much resources
<jsgotangco> and combing through wikipedia
<jsgotangco> not to mention creating relevant exercises in keduca for isntance
<pips1_> Kamping_Kaiser: hehe
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
* Kamping_Kaiser looks aroudn the doc directory for sabayon - not very helpfull i'm afraid. 'docs' are listed as a todo
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: and its not just dumping the video here, i'm looking into *streaming* the video from the ltsp server (if its possible)
<jsgotangco> because if the video is loaded in memory, it'll suck so hard
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: from a technical perspective, there will be two additional layars possible above ltsp
<jsgotangco> and each episode is like 18 - 22 minutes long
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: local apps, where you could run a video program locally, and stream it from the server and process locally (would be best for you, I think), and the diskless fat, that runs everything locally
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the whole video doesn't need to load in memory, at least
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: on diskless fat, when you say fat, it about hardware resources?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes. diskless fat requires ~800mhz processor, ~384MB RAM
<jsgotangco> ekkk
<highvoltage> the fat clients boot as a full machine, they just use the network as storage.
<highvoltage> so they look like they are thin clients, but they're not.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what kind of specs will these pc's have
<highvoltage> (the clients)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well, they're new machines actually
<highvoltage> for playing video locally, you'll only need a high end PII and about 128MB RAM
<jsgotangco> but we're also expecting old hardare PIII'sh specs
<highvoltage> oh cool.
<highvoltage> for new machines, diskless fat is fantastic.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: ive actually received initial batch and they're core duo
<highvoltage> we're running it at two schools currently and on 10 of the digital doorways (soon to be 50)
<jsgotangco> just no OS
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: WOW
<highvoltage> it would be a shame to use those as pure thin clients
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i said i'll just use them as a grid heh
<jsgotangco> j/k
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> anyway they came from Acer and we have a hundred of them coming
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: e-mail me your physical address, and I can mail you a DVD with my diskless fat image, then you can play around with it a bit
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnight pips1_ 
<jsgotangco> but they're so full featured i can just run vista on them
<jsgotangco> :D
* Kamping_Kaiser debates an intrest in sabayon, puts it aside for an intrest in sleep
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we've streamed video with the digital doorway project, and it works perfectly. we can even play dvd movies over the network :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: but they're stand alone machines right?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: they boot from the network, just like with LTSP. except all applications are executed locally, so the local CPU/RAM is used.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: anyway, i would appreciate if you can send student performance metrics of sorts even if its very rough 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: but they have no hard disks inside
<pips1_> cu Kamping_Kaiser
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, we only have surveys and some letters from the schools, I'll get Inge, our project administrator to mail you some data
<jsgotangco> thanks
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: how did you integrate video and contextual info?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we have scripts that generate Xfce menus for them
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: although, we'll probably use firefox with the mplayer plugin in the future
<highvoltage> the mplayer plugin makes it possible to integrate it into a web page the same way that they do it with windows mplayer in IE
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i haven't tried FF, but konqueror already does that without any plugin
<jsgotangco> (well i think it uses kaffeine)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what i did was just do everything on xhtml, use tabs in between content, and at the end, there's a test done in javascript
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: then i also made it run on portable firefox in a cd that goes straight to the frontpage of the application
<jsgotangco> so that any computer even if it doesn't have firefox, it'll still run (on windows that is)
<jsgotangco> its very hackish but enough to inspire the edu people
<highvoltage> it sounds like a decent approach.
<highvoltage> what's hackish about it?
<jsgotangco> i did everything by hand lol
<jsgotangco> i need to automate the creation of content
<highvoltage> ah, so it just needs some automation and cleaning. :)
<highvoltage> in South Africa, most of the big content providers also do *everything* by hand.
<jsgotangco> a web approach seems the most sensible
<highvoltage> so don't feel to bad :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: sure but they're not an army of one person (unlike me)
<highvoltage> yep, which makes it even worse! (that they don't automate their stuff)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: do you think it makes sense that I used a browser?
<jsgotangco> to edu people, it doesn't matter at all though
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: considering that you're currently just one person, and that this needs to be cross-platform, and that this project has a deadline, yes, I think it's the best tool for the job
<jsgotangco> and i think it makes it more extensible in a way
<highvoltage> edu people want something that works easily and reliably.
<highvoltage> you can give them that with a web interface.
<jsgotangco> yeah, the test scripts are really a pain to do by hand though :D
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: although the initial design looked strangely like the opencd though
<pips1_> jelkner: ping
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I need to get back to work now
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: but I want to talk to you about this some more, since a large part of my work consists of similar stuff
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: ok thanks for the chat
<highvoltage> we can trade secret weapons :)
<jsgotangco> yup and split the royalties muahahaha
<jsgotangco> j/k
<nixternal> well hello there!
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<bddebian> Heya nixternal
<highvoltage> hey nixternal and bddebian 
<nixternal> boo is more like if im not mistaken ;)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: howdy
<nixternal> hiya highvoltage, low wattage
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nixternal> ahh jsgotangco
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage, sbalneav
<nixternal> sbalneav: wasabi
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: daddy!
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav!
<highvoltage> *grouphug*
<nixternal> heh, this is like the beginning of a conference call
<nixternal> scarey
<sbalneav> hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi
<nixternal> haha there you go
<jsgotangco> nixternal: if you're going to UDS-MTV, make sure you follow sbalneav 
<highvoltage> MTV?
<highvoltage> UDS is so not a commercial for MTV
<bddebian> hehe
<highvoltage> (sorry, lame joke)
<sbalneav> Now look at them yoyo's, that's the way you do it.  Write edubuntu down at MTV
<nixternal> well, it seems that they will not approve my "absence" from school...i guess this is what you get when you go to school on the government's dime..but i earned it..Illinois Veterans Grant and the GI Bill == money in my pocket and free college
<sbalneav> We got some in-core microsoft killers, custom software delivery...
<nixternal> all is not lost though, as it looks like the ChiGLUG will be getting RMS during that week, so at least I will have a geekfest here as well
<jelkner> pips1_: i'm teaching
<jsgotangco> RMS? jeez
<jelkner> i'm still here, but i have students
<sbalneav> Hey jelkner!
<jsgotangco> jelkner: how have you been doing?
<nixternal> ya, i woke up to an inbox full of "WE GOT THE COLLEGE TO PAY FOR RMS! IT IS APPROVED"
<jelkner> sbalneav: hi!
<jsgotangco> nixternal: scary
<nixternal> ya, especially since his interview this week, about puting constraints on IBM and other companies that are using Linux
<willvdl> highvoltage, heya
<sbalneav> nixternal: If you want your picture taken with him, remember: bring cash :)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: well its not about his views most of the time, but his attitude per se
<nixternal> i don't want nothing taken with him, but i enjoy listening to him talk
<jsgotangco> he writes well though
<nixternal> he snapped at me at a LinuxConf years back, and it took every ounce of patience i had to not go southside on him
<jsgotangco> lol
<nixternal> and im from the "weeeeessssst siiiiaadee" </icecube voiceover>
<highvoltage> hey willvdl 
<highvoltage> nixternal: congrats. I'm a big fan of RMS.
<sbalneav> I'm a huge fan of his ideals.
<jsgotangco> yes
<sbalneav> The man himself.... not so much :)
<highvoltage> he has a cool beard too.
<nixternal> well, his ideals kind of failed him this week during an interview
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: hahahha
<jsgotangco> err who is amy jiang?
<nixternal> and he used the term "copyright", in which he would enforce companies like IBM in their use of Linux and not GNU/Linux
<RichEd> nixternal: you pinged me re a meeting last night ?
<nixternal> did i?
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> that was a couple of nights ago...just wondering about a "handbook" gathering
<jsgotangco> RichEd: does your phone accept sms? i sent you one earlier
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco : got it :) been busy in spreadsheets ...
<nixternal> jsgotangco: quit playing with your phone already
<jsgotangco> RichEd: oh good just checking, but you get the idea :D
<nixternal> i love my generic proprietary phone that doesn't all me to do anything but talk, text, and take pics ;)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: no way, i like extreme connectivity
<nixternal> hehe
<jsgotangco> nixternal: next target: Nokia N95
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I've asked highvoltage for tuXlabs info, and before, and there does not seem to be any results facts ... just a sense that it helps ... but not data study
<jsgotangco> RichEd: yeah we talked about it earlier
<nixternal> well, we don't have that luxuary here in the us...we get cellular technology after the rest of the world has had it for years
<jsgotangco> RichEd: but anything can help
<sbalneav> I love my total lack of a cell phone which means when I'm no where near a phone NO ONE CAN CALL ME TO TELL ME THEIR COMPUTOR IS BROKEEN! :)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: imagine a phone with 5MP camera and GPS
<RichEd> nixternal: yep ... vested interests protecting capex invested in land line infrastructure ... good old lobbyists ;)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: our news reporters at work, its actually a requirement :D
<nixternal> sbalneav: i am with you there..i just recently picked one up, as i was sick of people saying i was impossible to get a hold of..i told them if you email me, i usually respond within 24 hours ;)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: its not broadcast-quality, but with todays mobile networks, we could deliver news very efficiently with these "convergence" devices
<nixternal> nice
<nixternal> i could deliver absolutely nothing with mine ;)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: well we have a segment of the population here that still relies on AM radio
* nixternal relies on AM radio
<jsgotangco> so such things don't fit much obviously
<nixternal> i love my am radio
<nixternal> hehe
<willvdl> nixternal, if their computer is broken then they presumably can't email you :)
<nixternal> willvdl: exactly!
<nixternal> ;)
<willvdl> silly me
<nixternal> haha
<willvdl> highvoltage, I'm surprised Riaan didn't figure that one out yet :P
<nixternal> i was one of those that had to have the latest and greatest cell phones there was...then i got sick of the bills, the fact i wasn't using everything..and i hated people calling me all the time..so i took a good 2 years of cell phone use off
<jsgotangco> i change phones like twice i year, i know its a sickness
<nixternal> hehe
<jsgotangco> nixternal: i can actually do ssh with this one
<jsgotangco> sick
<nixternal> now i would love that
<nixternal> ssh with a cell phone, umph
<jsgotangco> nixternal: it also has python 2.2
<pips1> jsgotangco: do you also have a little folding-out keyboard to go with that?
<nixternal> jeesh
<nixternal> pips1: the phone comes with its own secretary from the way it sounds ;)
<pips1> hehe
<jsgotangco> pips1: no its a blackberry-type form factor with qwerty and 320x240 qvga
<willvdl> jsgotangco, som countries in Africa have up to nine mobile operators with no convergence. You often see people carrying way more than one cellphone
<pips1> ooomph
<jsgotangco> nixternal: the web browser uses khtml rendering engine
<nixternal> oh, well i know khtml rendering, and just how good that is </sarcasm>
<jsgotangco> willvdl: i think majority of asian countries are more advanced on the mobile front aside from europe
<nixternal> that is the one downfall then ;)
<jelkner> is local usb device support on thin-clients in edgy?
<jelkner> it doesn't seem to be working
<jelkner> i thought ogra said earlier it was there
<pips1> I had it working here
<jsgotangco> its part of the spec targets for edgy, although i admit i haven't tried it
<jsgotangco> we actually got something working during paris
<jelkner> pips1: how does it work?  do you just insert a usb stick and it appears on the desktop?
<willvdl> jsgotangco, African countries opened their doors wide to operators over the past few years with no thought to policy, frameworks or competition. 
<pips1> jelkner: yes
<jsgotangco> willvdl: but it seems the continent is one of the fastest to adopt mobile networks and use it for different market segments/applications
<willvdl> they have to, there is nothing else
<willvdl> with no policies and backhand deals going on, the result is somewhat chaotic at best
<willvdl> honestly, I know of guys who carry nine cellphones...
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> ive read how it thrives in somalia too
<jsgotangco> but since there is no taxation to speak off
<willvdl> consider a country with a population of 5million and nine mobile operators :)
<jsgotangco> crazy
<willvdl> the result is that wifi doesn't really get in except in the rural settings
<jsgotangco> willvdl: are mobile networks utilised for education as well?
<willvdl> programmes are starting...
<jsgotangco> it seems you can get mobile data there cheap
<willvdl> but then you're often looking at gprs comms
<jsgotangco> at least you can connect at dial-up quality level
<willvdl> which is fine for specific purposes
<willvdl> but I'm not sure how much broadband there is
<pips1> jelkner: if you file a bug, let me know the bug number, please, thanks
<willvdl> It also depends on what side of the continent you're on.
<jsgotangco> willvdl: just a wild experiment on our side, we streamed our edu content on HSDPA
<willvdl> and?
<jsgotangco> we got a throughput of around 2+Mbps
<jsgotangco> pretty good
<willvdl> I thought HSDPA was limited to 1.8
<jsgotangco> it can go around 3+ i think
<willvdl> ooh, you're right, just looking at the spec
<jsgotangco> 3G can't go beyond 2 i think
<willvdl> is it not more expensive to do it that way?
<jsgotangco> its not so bad
<willvdl> hmmm, one can always strike bulk deals with the operators I guess
<jsgotangco> yeah
<willvdl> nice
<jsgotangco> well its experimental
<willvdl> The good news is most of Africa adopted CDMA
<jsgotangco> oh thats better
<willvdl> so there's no legacy
<willvdl> good for QualCom :)
<jsgotangco> you can get better mileage with evdo
<jsgotangco> and its already a proven method of delivery
<willvdl> not familiar with it really
<jsgotangco> i think the new ones coming can go almost 5Mbps downlink
<willvdl> only familiar with cdma from military spread-spectrum stuff
<willvdl> familiar with MediaFLO?
<jsgotangco> i think ive heard of it, qualcomm thing right?
<jsgotangco> cdma got killed here because of the killer app of gsm
<willvdl> yip. Oh, it's evdo
<willvdl> killer app?
<jsgotangco> sms
<jsgotangco> hehe
<willvdl> ah :)
<willvdl> heard of mixit?
<jsgotangco> no
<willvdl> lovely littlw java (I think) app that does IM on the phone across protocols
<jsgotangco> hmm thats interesting
<willvdl> S.Africa company. Huge subscribers, cuts costs (not sms based) etc
<willvdl> v nice example of "convergence"
<jsgotangco> 3G data cost is quite cheap here now, mobile IM use is growing
<jsgotangco> you can actually do a lot of data stuff even on prepay now
<willvdl> makes sense. a lot of kids don't even have email addresses here :)
<willvdl> real pop-culture thing
<jsgotangco> but most still dont use email on phones because its not "push" technology by nature
<willvdl> I've also heard that qualcomm is contending the patent rights on wimax
<jsgotangco> one of the local school connectivty projects is pinning its hopes on wimax for connectivity
<jsgotangco> (gilas.org)
<jsgotangco> we still suffer from "last mile" connectivity issues
<willvdl> eish, I get so many ocnflicting opinions on wimax vs wifi
<willvdl> conflicting rather
<jsgotangco> we could connect a lot more schools in the rural areas with wimax
<jsgotangco> and would probably be cheaper in the long run
<pips1> I'm re-installing dapper to test the dist-upgrade
<pips1> I finished the dapper install, however, dhcp isn't running on the server. strange. Do I need to start it manually?
* pips1 tries to remember
<willvdl> jsgotangco, can one roam on wimax?
* pips1 remembers
<jsgotangco> willvdl: well its pretty much like wifi on steroids, with a wider coverage
<jsgotangco> (we talking about kilometers of coverage)
<willvdl> yeah but I think there are some issues around mobility still
<jsgotangco> i think its pretty much classified as fixed wireless
<willvdl> yeah, but then with the range, it's probably not an issue
<highvoltage> willvdl: sorry, I can't scroll up that far. what didn't riaan figure out?
<willvdl> haha. nah just a support desk joke about emailing to say your computer is broken
<RichEd> ogra: has any plan been put in place to update the download links for Edubutu to include edgy ?
<RichEd> newz2000 is busy with pages now for Ubuntu.
<ogra> RichEd, how do you mean ?
<RichEd> ogra: can you pop into #ubuntu-matt and we can all chat quickly ?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: do you mean for edubuntu.org?
<RichEd> yep jsgotangco : pop into  #ubuntu-matt if you'd like to join the discussion.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what was the login page again for the website?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hmm do i actually have edit rights to the main pages
<jsgotangco> ?
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<juliux> RichEd, ogra  i will support the edubuntu edgy iso via bittorrent again with my rootserver;)
<RichEd> thanks :)
<ogra> cool
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> bittorrent always helps
<juliux> i have 30gb traffic left
<RichEd> jsgotangco: do you have edit rights ? please confirm or else we will need to get hold of pips1 or highvoltage / jonathan2 at the meeting tonight
<juliux> and an uni account;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you're supposed to have
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: pips1 edited the access rights a while ago
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i dont see any "content" menu nor able to edit the pages that i made before
<jsgotangco> i get access denied on /admin
<Amaranth> ugh, we need something you can subscribe evolution to for meetings
<Amaranth> instead of a monthly ical that i always forget to redownload and never had CC meetings on it
<juliux> Amaranth, evolutions ical support is realy bad;)
<Amaranth> heh
<juliux> Amaranth, use sunbird;)
<Amaranth> i just want something i can subscribe to
<Amaranth> sunbird would have to be running all the time
<Amaranth> unless it has e-d-s integration
<juliux> hehe
<Amaranth> i want my clock to have my meeting info :P
<smile2me> Ltsp anyone?
<highvoltage> yes please.
<smile2me> i'm gettint the tftp file not found error
<lucasvo> .w 14
<smile2me> help anyone?
<smile2me> guess not
<highvoltage> ugh. busy talking to RichEd in other channel and missed smile2me's question
<RichEd> highvoltage: I'll get some text ready about the fact that there is only downloads available and no CDs via shipit
<RichEd> highvoltage: what time does the release normally go out on the "promised day" ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: normally as early as possible, as soon as everything is ready
<highvoltage> it has varied from 10am-12 noon for ubuntu in the past
<highvoltage> and edubuntu followed a few hours later
<RichEd> highvoltage: thanks ... that means we will be able to tie up the loose ends at the meeting tonight ... ready to go on the morrow.
<BonBonTheJon> are you guys admins, because I have some text for the handbook
<BonBonTheJon> it is for Concepts: Networks and Networking
<BonBonTheJon> I have it at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28260/
<BonBonTheJon> It's not totally done, but its a good start
<BonBonTheJon> I have to go, but if you guys get a chance, look at it, and tell me what you think
<highvoltage> BonBonTheJon: ok, please come again later
<RichEd> BonBonTheJon: nixternal is doing handbook : nixternal look here when you are around please: BonBonTheJon> it is for Concepts: Networks and Networking
<RichEd> <BonBonTheJon> I have it at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28260/
<cliebow> google.com
<ogra> cliebow, !! you here ! :)
* ogra switches machines
<nixternal> i will take a look at here in few RichEd and BonBonTheJon ;)  thanks!
* nixternal is finishing up homework b4 class like usual ;)
<cliebow> ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<cliebow>  ogra: that is some wild bootsplah screen
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> cbx33 made it
<RichEd> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<RichEd> LaserJock: :) did you get my default apps and menu mail the other day ?
<cliebow> ogra:wont edgy start without a valid ldapserver...?
<cliebow>  having altered nsswitch.conf
<ogra> it should work, but i must admit i dont use ldap (yet) its a target for feaisty (edgy+1)
<Burgwork> cliebow: it will start, it will just be very slow
<Burgwork> cliebow: it needs to timeout trying to contact the ldap server, which takes about 3 minutes
<LaserJock> RichEd: argg, yeah. It's not easy. and my mail is down right now
<RichEd> no rush ... as long as we can chat about it some time :)
<LaserJock> well, we can chat about it now
<LaserJock> I just can't read your email right now
<cliebow>  heh..it timed out about ten minutes ago checkr\ed the fdile system..and now just sittimg there
<Burgwork> ogra: is edubuntu-as-a-public-computer on the agenda? are their specs for that?
<LaserJock> RichEd: just remind me real quick as to what you want to do
<ogra> Burgwork: liek a webkiosk ?
<ogra> *like
<RichEd> LaserJock: too much happening ... we can chat at UDS
<Burgwork> webkiosk and full-on public computer desktop
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins ... thats a general feature i'll add to feisty ... doesnt need speccing ...
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, np
<ogra> its only a handfull of lines to add to a new ltsp plugin ...
<Burgwork> web kiosk isn't hard, just use ephy's lockdown
<LaserJock> my UDS plans are changing I think
<RichEd> ogra: did you gate a chance to check out the release announcement for accuracy ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyAnnouncementEdubuntu?
<Burgwork> desktiop is slightly different
<LaserJock> I've got too much stuff to do at work
<ogra> RichEd: i didnt edit it yet 
<ogra> bu i'll do
<LaserJock> so I think I'm going to just be in Mountain View for Sunday and Monday
<ogra> am busy with the tests atm
<RichEd> ogra: no problem
<ogra> LaserJock: oh no !
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> I'm not needed much though so it'll be ok I'm sure :-)
<LaserJock> I just want to say hello to everybody and discuss some specific topics
<LaserJock> MOTU and non-LTSP edubuntu stuff
<Laser_away> bbl, emergency meeting at school :-)
<neurogeek> lguerra, thanks for your help with contacting mhz
<cbx33> is mhz ok?
<cbx33> havn't seen him in ages
* highvoltage was wondering about it too
<highvoltage> I mean... about him
<cbx33> I did ask a few weeks ago
<highvoltage> pips1 too
<cbx33> brb
<neurogeek> cbx33, i think he is!
<cbx33> cliebow, is the usplash ok ?
<cbx33>  :0
<cliebow> it is Cool!..took a little getting used to though..boss thought id set fire to the monitor!!
<cbx33> hahaha
<cliebow> Burgwork:with any luck bind_policy soft in libnss-ldap.conf will help
<cliebow> yes..tht\atr made life a heck of a lor\t easier
<RichEd> hi pips ... we will need to edit a couple of pages on www.edubuntu.org tomorrow.
<ogra> RichEd: i wont attend teh meeting today for obvious iso testing reasons ...
<LaserJock> ack, is there a Edubuntu meeting today?
<ogra> well, there is oine scheduled in 30min
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> I've been in a meeting all morning
<LaserJock> it's one of those days :-)
<RichEd> ogra: that's fine ... it will be a very short update meeting ... I need to be up early tomorrow to sort out the press release info and make sure the web site pages are all linked properly & accurate
<RichEd> ogra: can I just ask you to make sure you are happy with the announcement page ... so that I have it ready & accurate when I wake up
<highvoltage> RichEd: where is it?
<ogra> yep, as i said, i'll care later tonight
<ogra> i doubt i'll go to sleep tonight ... kets see how fast i am ...
<ogra> *let's
<highvoltage> ok
<RichEd> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyAnnouncementEdubuntu
<ogra> the ubuntu specific stuff needs to get dropped and we need to add more detailed edubuntu features ...
<ogra> (f-spot and the like)
<RichEd> ogra: I was not sure what ubuntu features will carry up into Edubuntu - must that entire section drop off ?
<RichEd> ogra: and whatever is easiest for you ... if you want to send me a text email, I am happy to edit the page and neaten ... 
<ogra> dont worry i'll clean that up
<ogra> no, i'm fine with editing it, just have a look at it for grammar and typos tomorrow ...
* ogra goes to look for some food
<RichEd> ===== edubuntu meeting in 15 mins in #ubuntu-meeting === short update only = 20-30 mins tops ====
<juliux> RichEd, a short meeting is good;)
* highvoltage needs recharging, so ++ on that
<LaserJock> RichEd: you know it'll got 1 hr at least ;-)
<LaserJock> you can't say "short meeting" without it doing that
* juliux has only 30min
<RichEd> LaserJock: I will keep my inflammatory ideas and comments to myself ... that will keep it short ;)
<juliux> LaserJock, we can ask ubotu to kick us all after 30min ;)
<LaserJock> RichEd: hehe
<RichEd> for tomorrow: I have to be fresh for release email, release page updates, german hotel booking, german visa application, and write a 30 min presentation ... and that's all due before lunch time 
<sbalneav> Can I propose my own inflammatory ideas and comments then? "The Illuminati are stealing my brainwaves!!!!"
* RichEd notes that it may be to late already for sbalneav ;)
<nixternal> whoa..almost forgot about the meeting
<highvoltage> nixternal: how dare you!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> im so busy right now
<RichEd> busy + multi-tasking = lots of stuff falls off the back of the bus ... I know the feeling
<nixternal> i have 2 tests and a class tonight, so im leaving in 2 hours, i have the release page to build for Kubuntu tonight, helping with the art server, and i was interested in becoming an official "part" of the edubuntu community ;)
<nixternal> haha RichEd...that is why i leave that emergency exit door closed and locked
<nixternal> can't let it fall off
* RichEd is going for a quick ciggie ... that tends to open the emergency door wide open ... but at least slows me down to get ready for sleep in an hour
<nixternal> hehe, i quit smoking years ago ;)
<RichEd> well this one will be my first for the day ... and at 21:52 that's not too bad
<RichEd> ===== edubuntu meeting in 6 mins in #ubuntu-meeting === short update only = 20-30 mins tops ====
<nixternal> heh, keep telling yourself that ;)
<RichEd> ===== edubuntu meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting === short update only = 20-30 mins tops ====
<sorush20> hi what is the best graph drwaing tool
<sbalneav> GRAPH drawing, or GRAPHICS drawing?
<sorush20> sbalneav: graphs plotting for scientific data
<stgraber> gnuplot ?
<sorush20> thanks
<LaserJock> there is also a gnome frontend for gnuplot called plotdrop
<floydwilde> what do you have to do after installing to get ltsp working?
<floydwilde> I did nothing except edit the dhcp file to match my network and a thin clinet boots into a login, but no logins work
<ogra> floydwilde: dapper (6.06) ?
<sbalneav> floydwilde: You might have to execute the command:
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<floydwilde> yes its dapper
<ogra> then do what sbalneav
<ogra> said
<floydwilde> what about ltsp-build-client?
<floydwilde> guess not since I can login now
<ogra> :)
<floydwilde> thanks!
<ogra> oooh, hi edubuntugirl
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> how nice to see her :)
<highvoltage> I can't make her say anything at the moment, but if you talk directly to her she'll talk back
<highvoltage> she's back permanently now :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: hi there
<edubuntugirl> hola, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ogra
<edubuntugirl> ogra is Oliver Grawert
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: RichEd is Richard Weideman
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: sure thing
<ogra> she didnt forget about me :)
<highvoltage> yeah :)
<pips1> hey edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> hi, pips1!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google edubuntu
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'Edubuntu Home Page | edubuntu', at http://www.edubuntu.org/
<highvoltage> great.
<pips1> :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ogra++
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: ogra has karma of 1
<ogra> edubuntugirl: google Oliver Grawert
<edubuntugirl> ogra: Google found 'Oliver Grawert', at http://www.grawert.net/weblog.cgi
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: lsmod
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Module list: Strip Auth Hate Ignore Modules Perl Rehash Irc SQLSeen Kernel Rot13 ITime UKChart GoogleCmp StonerName RFC Urban DiscDate BZFlag RoShamBo Timer NickOMeter Greet Google Lotto Insult FileFactoid Swear Ping Fortune Exchange Announce RWAR EtherCode GoogleCalc Divine Dvorak Slashdot Units Logs TraceRoute Say BashOrg MemoFor HowFar Babel NMBLookup Jwhois Morse LastFM Crypt SQLFactoid SQLFactoidupdate SQLFactoidforget SQLFactoidsea
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell ogra remember to ping me when you get this
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> ogra: hello
<ogra> hello ?
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'remember to ping me when you get this' 22 seconds ago (on Wed Oct 25 23:11:49 2006)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> ^^^ memo function :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: seen pips1 
<edubuntugirl> pips1 was last seen on #edubuntu 2 minutes and 9 seconds ago, saying: :) [Wed Oct 25 23:10:26 2006] 
<ogra> can she have a "last said" mode ?
<pips1> nice
<ogra> ah, ubercool
<highvoltage> ogra: what's that?
<highvoltage> like the seen?
<ogra> what you just did :)
<highvoltage> cool :)
* pips1 hugs edubuntugirl
* ogra needs more coffee ... these install tests start getting boring ...
<ogra> bbl
<highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu. the 15-20 minute meeting is a bit long for me :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight
<edubuntugirl> goodnight, highvoltage. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<highvoltage> thank you.
<BonBonTheJon> lol
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> nn highvoltage
<highvoltage> nn pips1 
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: sbalneav
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: what?
<sbalneav> That's usually the reaction I get from girls :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: sbalneav is Scott Balneaves
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: k
<RichEd> LaserJock: we could have pointed sorush to the new forum: <sorush20> sbalneav: graphs plotting for scientific data
<LaserJock> yes, check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuScientists
<LaserJock> IMO we need one of those for Education
<RichEd> again ... a busy page ... but crisp ... crispness makes me more patient on web pages
<LaserJock> yes, it needs to be split up a bit
<LaserJock> but there is a lot of nice content
<RichEd> agreed ... added to the list :)
<RichEd> f.y.i. the menu mail thread was almost that I want something almost exactly like this page for Edubuntu:
<RichEd> = when you install Edubuntu, you get the following applications on your desktop ready to use !
<RichEd> = when you install Edubuntu, you get the following applications you can install with a few clicks from Universe
<RichEd> etc.
<LaserJock> mhm
<RichEd> That shows the true meaning of "Open Source is so much more than a desktop"
<LaserJock> yeah, that's the thing I'm trying to figure out. It's not just what you have on your desktop, it's what you have "access" to as well
<RichEd> Most people think of an operating system install as being MS Windows with a bunch of (trivial) accessories ...
<RichEd> So if we say "open source free operating system" people only assume that they get the same but for free
<RichEd> When in fact, if you stick our CD into your PC, you can go so very much further ....
<RichEd> And we need to get that message across = for Open Source
<RichEd> And youu can go so very much further, so much easier
<RichEd> We need to get that message across = for Ubuntu and its variants
<pygi> :P
<pips1> RichEd: I read an interesting post today on the subject of installing applications on windows vs. on ubuntu/linux in general... Although I thought the original poster missed the point, it still got me thinking about an interesting topic from another angle... 
* pygi is afraid he's slowly getting out of sync with FOSS happenings, and his development efforts :'(
<RichEd> pygi: expand on the comment: it still got me thinking about an interesting topic from another angle... 
<pygi> RichEd: ?
<pips1> Is Ubuntu an Operating System? http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/blog/2006-10-04/is-ubuntu-an-operating-system/
<RichEd> sorry  .. me is going mad slowly ... I read pips1 comment and pygi comment as the same person ...
<LaserJock> woah, me too
<pips1> basically, where I see a real benefit in the Debian/Ubuntu way, is that you not only install the software, but you also get security updates for all that software... 
<pips1> I think most software users don't realise this/don't think about software in that way, i.e. that there is a certain life cycle involved, and security issues with every software... of coure, software developers are well aware of this, but I don't think users in general
<RichEd> pips1: and you can select from your desktop via Add/Remove without having to go hunt down web pages
<RichEd> And when you find the application, it is click, okay, thanks, forget about it
<LaserJock> yeah, and it won't have viruses or spy bots in it
<LaserJock> I was just trying to find a wallpaper/theme for Windows XP and got a ton of junk
<pips1> I imagine the "microsoft user" way of thinking is kind of "short sighted" / practical in a way that they just want their daily needs to be taken care of (i.e. productivity apps, email, browser), and in addition, they want some funny/usefully "extras", whatever they come across or other people tell them about (I'm thinking viral email stuff, funny movie clips, etc, but also little applications that do something which is helpful to the user,
<pips1>  at least at the time they hear about it first..)
<LaserJock> well, if you don't know any better
<lguerra> hi all
<pips1> but users don't think about *maintenance* of software as such, I think. They expect a PC to have a certain life expectency, say 3 years, and they don't look any further than that, when they select one of those "non-essiential"/non-daily-use apps... they download it, install it, use it (or not) and then might forget it or simply use it at certain times. But I don't think they will think about "upgrading" that little app to the latest versio
<pips1> n, or remotely think about making sure they get *security updates* for that app...
<pips1> ^^^ which is of course a great feature of Debian. You *do* get security updates for every app.
<RichEd> yes, I wouldn't say it is short sighted so much as conditioned ... if I am in Windows, and am looking for say a CAD package ... which I want for free because the wife is talking about adding a room onto the house, then I have to search a bunch of freeware sites, and have to work out if it is actually freeware, or a cripple demo,or shareware with a time limit, or nags asking me to contribute to some poor schmuck ... it is actualy somet
<RichEd> imes quite a frustrating / depressing couple of hours
<pips1> Just, I don't think users are aware of the benefits, or care about those benefits too much.
<RichEd> but in Edubuntu, I go to Add/Remove, type in CAD, look at the few options, I know they are free, I know they are going to work ... so I can click and go, and 15 minutes later, I am playing with a floor layout plan
<RichEd> much less stress, less guilt than browsing a frustrating warez site ... and life goes on peacefully
<pips1> Hmm. At first, I thought that there were *much more* open source applications available in debian in total than shareware apps out there... but I'm not sure anymore really. There are tons of windows-based freeware and shareware apps out there! And there are also some pretty good sites that list, categorise and review those freeware + shareware apps, too
#edubuntu 2006-10-26
<RichEd> (and as you say, updates are taken care of ... as far as I remember, widows update only looks after MS stuff)
<RichEd> ^^ http://www.kde-apps.org/
<RichEd> http://www.gnome-look.org/
<pips1> An example is the german publishing house heise.de
<pips1> absolutely, windows updates only takes care of ms stuff
<pips1> however, as I said, the "ms conditioned" users (i.e. the majority of users out there), don't think about it and won't immediately see any benefit
<pips1> .. in the security updates
<pips1> to them, security is equivalent to "a personal firewall plus an anti-virus software"
<RichEd> So we must (1) make them think about it, and (2) swing enough developers to drop win freeware dev in favour of FOSS
<pips1> re (2) good idea...
<pips1> however, I think that al lot of applications that are in the freeware + shareware compartement are written by people with ms-only developer skills... visual basic... rather than c++
* RichEd is dropping off to sleep ... 
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> night RichEd
<pips1> yeah, it's late
<ogra> well, tomorrow is release ...
<ogra> :D
<pips1> oh ogra is still around to listen to my musings while his test rig is rattling along ;-)
<RichEd> today is release :P = 00:23
<ogra> heh, right
<ogra> pips1: i still have the whole set of powerpc tests left ... 
<pips1> oompf
<ogra> the last i386 test is just running
<RichEd> ogra: pips1 is going to check out web site updates ... and I will wrap up in the morning
<ogra> and the DVDs if they ever finish to rsync
<LaserJock> good night RichEd 
<RichEd> so if you comment on any pages that need to change, please email both of us ...
<ogra> i'll try to be around as early as i can ...
<RichEd> and to you mister spectroscoper ... have a goodie
* RichEd closes his eyes and walks to bed
<ogra> :)
<pips1> if I were ogra, at this point, I'd be rather brain dead and too tired to focus on editing release notes.. 
<LaserJock> hopefully by Feisty+1 I'll be Doctor Spectroscoper ;-)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: if I'm lucky, I'll get to say that I knew you before you were *really* famous ;)
<ogra> pips1: i have still some hours to go ... and just wait that my usual workstation is free again
<LaserJock> ajmitch: lol, whatever
<ogra> bah #ubuntu is below 1000 ppl again ...
<pips1> !
<LaserJock> shesh
<ogra> 1075 was the highest i saw today
<ajmitch> ogra: it'll get higher, don't worry
<ogra> heh, yes, tomorrow we'll break the record again
<ajmitch> maybe I should just ban *!*@*
<ajmitch> ;)
<pips1> ogra: If you aren't too tired, maybe it would be good to proof read the release notes though.. maybe during one of those "crawling progress bar" times :-)
<ogra> yep, i'll fix them up ..
<pips1> e.g. is printing on a local printer on thin clients really done?!
<ogra> you have to config it manually, but yes, i print here onn an usb printer attached to a thin client
<pips1> I thought that still needs more love... ahh. cool
<ogra> it needs more love
<ogra> a lot more
<ogra> but it works
<pips1> ok, I'd better go sleep now and get up early... 
<pips1> trust you will have company from the american timezone folks.. :)
<Cyorxamp> Hi gay!
<Cyorxamp> pips1 is gay
<Cyorxamp> LaserJock is gay too
<Cyorxamp> neurogeek, what a gay guy!
<Cyorxamp> gnomefreak isn't gay but likes to think he is
<pips1> hello bot
<Cyorxamp> Hi gay pips1
<Cyorxamp> ukubuntu, wow a brit... a gay brit
<Cyorxamp> crimsun is gay but I already said that
<gnomefreak> ogra: you around?
<Cyorxamp> ogra, yes he is gay
<Cyorxamp> he must ban me
<Cyorxamp> And don't just ban the IP or part of the host
<Cyorxamp> Ban the entire ISP on all ubuntu channels
<Cyorxamp> Because thats gay
<Cyorxamp> Like the ban in #ubuntu 
<Cyorxamp> Which is gay
<Cyorxamp> ubotu is the most gay of them all
<lucasvo> gay people *really* don't deserve that.
<Cyorxamp> Don't I?
<Cyorxamp> I do :P
<Cyorxamp> Your gay as well, I can tell
<neurogeek> wtf?
<Cyorxamp> Fujitsu, your company stinks... and its gay
<Cyorxamp> Hi neurogeek, thanks for waking up
<gnomefreak> neurogeek: ignore him
<Cyorxamp> I'm trying to get banned on all ubuntu channels forever so I don't come back
<Cyorxamp> So your gay
<Cyorxamp> Kamping_Kaiser is sooo gay
<Cyorxamp> nalioth is the gayest of them all
<Cyorxamp> But he isn't here
<Cyorxamp> zul is gay
<Cyorxamp> highvoltage is very very gay
<Cyorxamp> keltorsori doesn't think he is gay,,,,, but is
<lucasvo> a little more phantasy would be appreiated!
<lucasvo> !language
<ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
<Cyorxamp> ubotu stop being gay
<lucasvo> !coc
<ubotu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<Cyorxamp> coc?
<Cyorxamp> like Gay Cock?
<gnomefreak> lucasvo: ignore him
<P3L|C4N0> uhmmm
<Cyorxamp> Hi P3L|C4N0 if you can ban me
<Cyorxamp> Because your gay
<P3L|C4N0> xD
<lucasvo> gnomefreak: he obviously breaks the coc and should be banned, even if he wants to
<gnomefreak> hes a known troll that is banned around #ubuntu-*
<Cyorxamp> Yup
<Cyorxamp> Thats why I continue infact
<Cyorxamp> Because its gay
<Cyorxamp> However I can't be arsed to be an inventive... insitive... quizicle troll any more
* mode/#edubuntu [+o gnomefreak]  by ChanServ
<Cyorxamp> Someone with a point
<Cyorxamp> Just a crap troll
<P3L|C4N0> Cyorxamp, bye
<Cyorxamp> Who says your gay
* mode/#edubuntu [+o Burgwork]  by ChanServ
<Cyorxamp> Bye!
* Cyorxamp was kicked off #edubuntu by Burgwork (Burgwork)
<Cyorxamp> Again!
* Cyorxamp was kicked off #edubuntu by Burgwork (Burgwork)
<Cyorxamp> BAN!
<Cyorxamp> BAN!
<Cyorxamp> I need a BAN!
<Cyorxamp> Jeez
* mode/#edubuntu [+b *!n=Cyorxamp@*.112.21.19.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net]  by Burgwork
* Cyorxamp was kicked off #edubuntu by Burgwork (Burgwork)
<pips1> phew
* mode/#edubuntu [-o Burgwork]  by Burgwork
<Fujitsu> Where will he pop up next, I wonder...
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> xubuntu
<lucasvo> edubuntu-es
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: devel channels is my guess
<lucasvo> LP, bzr
<gnomefreak> oh shoot ty
<Fujitsu> Who knows.
<Fujitsu> Ah!
<Fujitsu> -devel.
<LaserJock> -devel
<pips1> heh
* mode/#edubuntu [+d JackONeill]  by gnomefreak
<Fujitsu> What's +d?
<pips1> wow, they really spruced up the firefox search add-on page
<pips1> oops, sorry, posted to the wrong channel
<pips1> -meeting
<gnomefreak> hm
<gnomefreak> i cant unop from here
<pygi> cycle?
<gnomefreak> ah
<gnomefreak> ty forgot about that
<bddebian> Howdy
<freet15> Hi
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> ogra: Still awake?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> just done ... 
<sbalneav> Anything I can help with?
<LaserJock> oh man
<sbalneav> I installed edubuntu from the cd last night, everything worked.
<ogra> not really, as i said, i'm done with testing so far ... the powerpc DVD iso hasnt seen any test yet
<ogra> thats on my list for tomorrow
<sbalneav> Get some sleep
<ogra> apart from that the announcment is ready and i'll take 4-5h sleep now ...
<sbalneav> \o/ for ogra!
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current :)
<ogra> nearly complete ...
<ogra> one release i'll manage to get all fields filled :)
<ogra> night all
<nixternal> g'nite
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<pips1> hullo
<kihai> Hi y'all! Anybody has a link to Edubuntu 6.10 Final yet?
<nixternal> in a few more hours
<nixternal> at least
<kihai> I'm downing ubunut 6.10 right now, but haven't found a link to edubuntu
<bimberi> kihai: Neither have been officially released yet
<kihai> *sigh* It's like christmas...
<bimberi> Yes, no presents for you until you finish your dinner :)
<kihai> ahem, just finished breakfast. I'm in Nuremberg... :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: good morning
<edubuntugirl> good morning, highvoltage!
* bimberi spies a bot?
<highvoltage> kind of.
<bimberi> :)
<RichEd> morning highvoltage, bimberi, kihai 
<bimberi> hi RichEd!
<RichEd> :)
<highvoltage> morning RichEd and willvdl!
<RichEd> hello willvdl 
<highvoltage> (we're doing the conf call thing again ;) )
<highvoltage> exciting day.
<willvdl> morning
<highvoltage> it's like Edubuntu's 1 year birthday
<bimberi> ooh yes, so it is
<highvoltage> (technically it was 13 days ago..., but who's keeping track...)
<willvdl> why, you using a lunar calender? :P
<highvoltage> not really, but I did strongly consider taking Eid off :)
<cbx33> good mornin all
<cbx33> we were talking about Ekiga the yesterday
<cbx33> I'm just taking a look now.....do I want to sign up for a free SIP account at ekiga
<cbx33> or are we doing this another way?
<willvdl> ping nixternal
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
<kihai> Ahem, just a short question: How do I get rid of nfs-mounted folders showing up on all the ltsp clients' desktops although the folder is rwx------ and owns to root. Sth to do with nautilus settings? And how do I change this?
<kihai> ...belongs to root...
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<highvoltage> kihai: hmmm.. that doesn't sound right
<highvoltage> kihai: I suggest you file it as a bug, even if you do find a workaround
<cbx33> kihai, is this logging in as an admin user
<cbx33> or a non-priv user?
<nixternal> willvdl: pong
<kihai> Had this problem previously with usb-sticks, but somehow I could get rid of it, although I don't know how I did it... If users try to open the folder, it says they're not allowed to view the contents, but the folder is still there
<kihai> non-priv users can see it...
<kihai> I just thought there must be a key in the gnome-config-editor, if I could only find it
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<highvoltage> cbx33: you can use edubuntugirl too
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell ogra cbx33 is looking for you
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> hmm... I should've demonstrated with you instead
<cbx33> how does that work?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 hey, please give me a ping
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> cbx33: say something
<cbx33> hmm...
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'hey, please give me a ping' 9 seconds ago (on Thu Oct 26 10:32:09 2006)
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> she's clever isn't she
<highvoltage> that way ogra won't have to scroll up, and you know he'll get your message as soon as he's online
<cbx33> nice....I like it
<cbx33> does it queue messages?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: seen ogra
<edubuntugirl> ogra was last seen on #edubuntu 11 hours, 19 minutes and 7 seconds ago, saying: bbl [Wed Oct 25 23:14:13 2006] 
<cbx33> excellent
<highvoltage> her seen function is also very nice
<cbx33> very very nice
<cbx33> are we allowed to change specs after the deadline?
<highvoltage> I think the deadline implies that the spec should be complete and reviewed
<highvoltage> but they usually change plenty after the deadline
<cbx33> I had some ideas to add to my spec for SCP
<highvoltage> cbx33: I don't think that would be a problem, worst case scenario is that some of it might be declined by the reviewers (they'll comment)
<pips1> hi guys
<willvdl> highvoltage, so edubuntugirl will only drop you the "ping" if you say something?
<edubuntugirl> willvdl: by the way, willvdl told me to tell you 'Will's the epitome of manhood' 1 minutes and 11 seconds ago (on Thu Oct 26 10:44:53 2006)
<pips1> just to let you know, I'm going to change a setting in Drupal, so that changes aren't immediately visible, but I can update the content "behind the scenes" and then publish it, as soon as we are ready
<willvdl> :) oh yeah
<willvdl> pips1, meaning saving to draft before publishing?
<pips1> changes, or new pages will first go to the publishing queue in the cms, rather than be public straight away
<willvdl> I remember drupal having rather a nice platform for moderation/proofing. A node could get published after it reaches a certain moderation threshold. Different moderators would have different moderation weightings
<highvoltage> willvdl: yes, she'll only drop it to you when you say something
<pips1> willvdl: correct
<willvdl> pips1, never used it myself but I kinda liked the idea
<highvoltage> willvdl: where's your drupal site these days?
<highvoltage> can't find it at eish.
<willvdl> dropped it ages ago. now using wordpress
<willvdl> but actually want to go back to drupal
<highvoltage> willvdl: where is it?
* willvdl doesn't like wordpress plugins
<willvdl> eish.net?
<highvoltage> aaah, I was looking at .co.za
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce *test* has been released
* edubuntugirl shouts at the top of his voice "Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  '*test* has been released'!"
<highvoltage> hmm.. :/
<cbx33> HAHAHA
<cbx33> Hi edubuntugirl 
<edubuntugirl> salut, cbx33!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce *test*
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  '*test*'!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce *test*
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  '*test*'!
<highvoltage> egh. now she doesn't want to do that other one.
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce hello!
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  'hello'!
<cbx33> edubuntugirl, announce Yahooo
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from cbx33!  'Yahooo'!
<highvoltage> weird.
<cbx33> indeed
<highvoltage> she can be a real little...
<highvoltage> well, something not #edubuntu friendly sometimes
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce *boo* is not released
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  '*boo* is not released'!
<highvoltage> very strange.
<willvdl> highvoltage, can she have a time delay on the announcement?
* highvoltage needs a better random generator
<cbx33> willvdl, good idea
<highvoltage> willvdl: not yet. it's a planned feature though.
<highvoltage> we'll get that in december :)
<cbx33> like announce 10 Tiem for meeting
<cbx33> ;)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: choose 1 or 2
<edubuntugirl> I choose 2, highvoltage
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: divine will something happen?
* edubuntugirl shakes the psychic black magic 8 ball...
<edubuntugirl> It says 'You May Rely On It', highvoltage
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: annouce edubuntugirl: announce edubuntugirl is in a loop
<edubuntugirl> RichEd: okay
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> she's too clever for that it seems :)
<ogra> RichEd, are you fine with the announcement ?
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'cbx33 is looking for you' 1 hours, 35 seconds ago (on Thu Oct 26 10:31:45 2006)
<RichEd> looks fine ogra ... will do a last check ... any idea when the official ubuntu annoncement will happen ?
* pips1 is going through all edubuntu-related wiki pages and will unlink outdated pages from the edubuntu-wiki-startpage
<ogra> nope
<ogra> we just found a bug on the edubuntu i386 DVD :(
<pips1> make sure you give me a heads-up before that announcement goes out! I need to update a couple of pages still
<RichEd> a serious one ? ... 'cause needing to re-download a DVD size file will make some people pretty annoyed I guess
* pips1 decides to first get the download page done
<highvoltage> eek
<ogra> RichEd, yes, a serious one
<highvoltage> what's wrong, ogra?
<ogra> th einstalled kernel is different from the running one, that makes packages that load modules in their postinst fail
<RichEd> pips1: I'll give you as much warning as I can ... once Ubuntu goes out, we can update "back end pages" and then only do our front page change when you are happy.
<highvoltage> geez. that's a weird bug.
* RichEd needs a reboot ... back in a bit
<highvoltage> (since I thought that the cd only usually comes with one kernel)
<ogra> it does
<ogra> but the DVD has all kernels and selectes the best one for you
<ogra> but indeed it can only boot one 
<spacey> hmm was it possibly to use the rdesktop client (like in ltsp.org) from the ubuntu thinclient chroot?
<ogra> spacey, not yet, its planned for feisty ... but i have a brz repo somewhere with a working implementation
<ogra> *bzr
<spacey> ok :)
<ogra> do you need it urgently ?
<highvoltage> I think that upstream upstream has a patch for that?
<spacey> ogra: its easy to hack in? :)
<ogra> upstream upstream ?
<highvoltage> ogra: well, since upstream is the same as ubutnu ltsp.org
<ogra> spacey, its a screen script in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d/
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought you mentioned that someone had a patch for rdp at the ltsp hackfest
<spacey> where we run ltsp.org with win2003 we have some soundproblems. And we suspect the ltsp kernel/userland just sucks
<highvoltage> (perhaps I'm mistaken)
<ogra> you may probably even be able to use the ltsp.org one, i didnt try
<spacey> ogra: ok cool :)
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, but it was too big to enter after feature freeze
<spacey> i'll look into it
<highvoltage> ogra: I understand, I thought that perhaps spacey can look into it and try to implement it himself, if it's urgent
<ogra> Gadi rewrote the complete set of screen scripts for us
<ogra> i'll merge his tree directly after feisty opens
<spacey> highvoltage: shouldn't be to difficult i think. 
<spacey> ogra: is his tree already available somewhere at the moment?
<spacey> we have some thinclients with a particular soundcard which make the sound play like its on helium :P
<spacey> with rdesktop
<ogra> http://www.symbio-technologies.com/bzr/gadi-ltsp-main
<ogra> not sure how far the sopund support is done in his scripts
* highvoltage wonders what symbiont will do now that everything is basically ubuntu ltsp
<ogra> work together with us ;)
<ogra> why else do you think he has a bzr tree with our code ;)
* highvoltage was wondering if that was the case
<highvoltage> good news indeed.
<highvoltage> they should also do some s-c-p work :)
<highvoltage> the symbiont and s-c-p seems to share some core functionality, don't they
<highvoltage> o shit, I'm keeping ogra out of work
<spacey> i think sound support is not really related with the scripts but with the rdesktop version or the sound driver in the kernel
* highvoltage stops talking
<pips1> highvoltage: I'm working on the website, we need two large tables with mirror download links.. question: should I have both all links for both LTS and Edgy on one page?
<pips1> what do you think?
<highvoltage> pips1: perhaps have one page that explains Dapper and LTS, and another one that explains edgy and it's cutting-edgeness
<spacey> ogra: that link is empty?
<highvoltage> pips1: and from there have two links to the different download tables
<pips1> hmm
<highvoltage> pips1: might be better from a usability perspective to do it that way, I think. but it's up to you :)
<highvoltage> pips1: xubuntu has done something different... just a sec..
<ogra> spacey, its a bzr repo, check it out with bzr
<highvoltage> no, they changed it back again.
<spacey> ok :P
<highvoltage> they had the releases listed in the menu, and if you click on the menu item it would show you the download locations
<highvoltage> like.. Navigation -> Downloads -> Dapper / Edgy
<pips1> question: who is directly linking to our current download page right now though? We don't want to break any exisiting links. nor do we want to introduce an additional click if it can be avoided. Ok, I'll find a solution.
* pips1 does a quick google search
<pips1> 17 linking to www.edubuntu.org/Download
<pips1> ah that not that much
<pips1> highvoltage: do you know how ubuntu.com will handle this? i.e. will they have two separate download pages for LTS and Edgy?
<highvoltage> pips1: last time they just changed it.
<pips1> highvoltage: what's the nick of Matt N. again? I might as well just ask him
<pips1> news.. something?
* pips1 goes to LP
<highvoltage> newz2000
* highvoltage will bbl
<pips1> cu
<pips1> !seen newz2000
<ubotu> newz2000 is on IRC right now!
<pips1> well, yes, but what channel? ubotu?
<pips1> ack
<RichEd> pips1: join me in #ubuntu-matt
<RichEd> pips1: that's where he hangs out for non canonical people to find him
<RichEd> ogra: are you happy that we have the download pages as follows:
<RichEd> www.edubuntu.org/Download => latest 6.10 file links & explaination that LTS is still available with a link to:
<RichEd> www.edubuntu.org/DownloadLTS => 6.06 file links
<RichEd> ???
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | edgy (6.10) is released ! grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<ogra> RichEd, sounds fine
<pips1> ok, i'll do it
<ogra> we have a release btw for anyone interested :)
<RichEd> thanks both
* RichEd does a last check on the announcement page ...
<juliux> cool
<juliux> ogra, should i support the desktop edubuntu image or the alternatve one?
<ogra> alternate
<ogra> desktop has only the desktop ...
<juliux> ok
<ogra> install (we dont call it alternate) has all the cool stuff :P
<ogra> btw the feisty CDs will be called server and desktop :)
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> i will share the install one
<highvoltage> ogra: and CD2? :p
<ogra> server 2 ?
<ogra> or server add on ?
<ogra> dunno
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> i'm open for suggestions :)
<juliux> hm i get no connect to the bittorrent tracker
<ogra> its just mirroring
<ogra> give it some time :)
<juliux> ok
* pips1 is frantically updating the download page
<pips1> ack, ack, ack
<pips1> what is all that javascript in the mirror download html that matt sent
<pips1> ?!
* pips1 curses in the background
<RichEd> pips that is for fancy formatting ... no need for that now !
<RichEd> pips1: I suggest you just doa text search replace on 6.06 for 6.10
<RichEd> pips1: and I hope you kept a copy of the old downloadpage ... that can be moved more or less intact to DownloadLTS ?
<pips1> sure
<juliux> hmpf now is the tracker again broken
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: announce willvdl has entered the room!
<edubuntugirl> Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  'willvdl has entered the room'!
<highvoltage> that's very strange. she only does the one kind of announcement now :-/
<willvdl> taran-taraaah
<willvdl> how do you get help on what she can do?
<highvoltage> hmmm... I suppose we need an edbuntugirl wiki page for that
<highvoltage> or...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: lsmod
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Module list: Strip Auth Hate Ignore Modules Perl Rehash Irc SQLSeen Kernel Rot13 ITime UKChart GoogleCmp StonerName RFC Urban DiscDate BZFlag RoShamBo Timer NickOMeter Greet Google Lotto Insult FileFactoid Swear Ping Fortune Exchange Announce RWAR EtherCode GoogleCalc Divine Dvorak Slashdot Units Logs TraceRoute Say BashOrg MemoFor HowFar Babel NMBLookup Jwhois Morse LastFM Crypt SQLFactoid SQLFactoidupdate SQLFactoidforget SQLFactoidsea
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: help Irc
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: *blink*
<highvoltage> hmmm...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google clug wiki spinach
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'CLUG Wiki - Spinach', at http://wiki.clug.org.za/wiki/Spinach
<highvoltage> willvdl: there's a list on her functions there ^^^^
<highvoltage> Spinach is her father.
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: modinfo Rot13
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Rot13: Does a rot13 on the input.  Usage: "rot13 <text>".
<RichEd> brb - reboot
<highvoltage> Hi JonathanFerguson 
<JonathanFerguson> Hi
<highvoltage> I like your name.
<JonathanFerguson> Ha, I don't have a nickname
<highvoltage> that's ok. some people call me highvoltage in real life these days.
<highvoltage> often I respond quicker to highvoltage than to 'jonathan' :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: did you get my last message?
* RichEd finds electric shocks tend to cause a quicker reaction
<highvoltage> RichEd: quite effective indeed.
* highvoltage be's back later
<willvdl> yes
<willvdl> damn 3g card overheats in JHB :)
<willvdl> spinasie?
<highvoltage> yep
<willvdl> does she have factoids loaded?
<pips1> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> pong pips1 
<pips1> RichEd: please re-join #ubuntu-matt
<willvdl> highvoltage, not quite a complete list. are there module pages anywhere?
<ogra> pips1, RichEd, the gettingstarted link in /downloads talks about 6.10 LTS .... the LTS doesnt belong there
<RichEd> okay ogra will check it out
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> we should probably keep it as gettingstarted/6.06
<ogra> since dapper is still supported and shipped
<ogra> edgy should ge new install instructions
<ogra> *get
<ogra> so rather change it back to 6.06 LTS ...
<ogra> and we'll add a new page for edgy 
<pips1> ogra: brb
<RichEd> ogra: okay ... I'm working through the page with pips1 ... we'll sort that out
<ogra> ok
<pips1> RichEd: we might as well discuss it here, then ogra will know what we are discussing, right?
<pips1> since matt isn't around anyway...
<RichEd> sure ...
<pips1> you haven't answered my question yet.
<pips1> should we have all mirror download links on one page, instead of doing a separate DownloadLTS page?
<RichEd> pips1: let's get the functionality right for the 2 options pointing to:
<RichEd> Download Edubuntu 6.10
<RichEd> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
<RichEd> and:
<RichEd> Download Edubuntu 6.06
<RichEd> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dapper/
<pips1> note, that the Download page will get *very long*, since we (currently) aren't using Javascript like ubuntu.com to nicely collapse the mirror listings into countries and region categories...
<pips1> RichEd: ok
<RichEd> ^^  get this right first, and then we can add the mirrors.
<pips1> got it
<jsgotangco> happy release day!!!
<RichEd> hey jsgotangco !
<jsgotangco> woohooo
<RichEd> pips1: this text should say 6.06
<RichEd> Please note that the current version of the Getting Started page applies to the Edubuntu 6.10 LTS release.
<RichEd> The linked page refers to 6.06 ... so just the text needs to revert
<ogra> no
<jsgotangco> ogra: 694MB iso not bad
<ogra> edgy needs a new one
<ogra> as i said before 
<ogra> the instructions are tied to dapper ...
<ogra> jsgotangco, yeah :)
<ogra> and we even have a bunch of langpacks on the CD this time :)
<jsgotangco> man the torrents are burning up
<pips1> ogra: I understand what you mean. however, before the Edgy-Getting-Started page is done, we will simply have a note saying that the current public one applies to LTS
<ogra> right
<pips1> RichEd: check the Download page now and let me know if this is what you suggested
<RichEd> doing ...
<RichEd> looks good minor changes recommended:
<RichEd> 1. add a blank line between bulet points
<pips1> ah, I forgot that, will do
<RichEd> 2. make these a : and not a ,
<RichEd> = Edubuntu 6.10, the Newest Edubuntu Release
<RichEd> = Edubuntu 6.06, Edubuntu with Long Term Support
<pips1> done
<RichEd> And this paragraph [How to install Edubuntu]  needs a correction = the Edubuntu 6.10 LTS release should say the Edubuntu 6.06 release
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> I would suggest re wording * formatting as follows:
* pips1 spotted a typo
<RichEd> Installation instructions can be found on the Getting Started page.
<RichEd> {new paragraph}
* pips1 listens
<RichEd> The current version of the Getting Started page has Edubuntu 6.06 screenshots and some additional information that applies specificaly to the Edubuntu 6.06 release install.
<RichEd> specifically
<RichEd> {new paragraph}
<RichEd> The installation for the latest 6.10 release has been simplified, so you will just need to skip several of the outlined steps. We will be providing an updated page here soon.
* RichEd asks if that makes sense ?
<pips1> yes, update done
<ogra> i'd keep it in two distinct pages 
<ogra> and just say that the edgy notes arent done yet
<ogra> users wont know *which* steps exactly they need to skip
<jsgotangco> hmm do we have cd artwork already?
<ogra> and the dapper page is written for a single network card setup
<RichEd> agreed ogra ... we'll get a Edgy getting started page, and then add a separate link for each.
<ogra> while edgy defaults to a two NIC one and behaves very differently in the installer
<ogra> right
<pips1> ok, I'll drop that sentence about "simply skipping steps"
<ogra> but just saying in general "skip some steps there" wont help the user
<pips1> since they need to be aware about 2 NIC issue etc
<ogra> right
<RichEd> Well pips1 I think my wording is okay for the iterim ... it does not say simply ... perhaps add in a comment about joining #edubuntu for assistance of they get stuck before we have the new page ?
<RichEd> if they get stuck ?
<ogra> what about the mirror list ? the page should at least have five or six 
<ogra> else we'll make the main server explode if the announcement is snet
<ogra> *sent
<jsgotangco> hi?
<RichEd> newz2000 is updating the mirror list ... it is shorter for a while until the propogation takes place
<pips1> ogra: when I last checked the first 5-10 mirror sites, I saw that the ISO files haven't propagated to them yet?
<RichEd> we're getting the current pages accurate and working ... and will then expand to mirrors when is okay
<ogra> i dont mind how short it is, we always have a list of the big three or fixe in the announcement
<ogra> this time we point to the downloads page so it should have that list at least
<RichEd> pips1: see comment ^^^ matt nuzum is about to give us a list of mirros that are ready
<jsgotangco> need help?
<ogra> s/fixe/five/
<RichEd> ogra: I'm keeping an eye on #canonical & email for the info from him
<ogra> pips1, they should be on the mirrors that are listed in the ubuntu announcement
<pips1> RichEd: I would appreciate a simple list though, whithout all that javascript and ubuntu.com-specific css...
<RichEd> pips ... so noted :)
<ogra> please put at least this list in place if we send the announcement before having the page ready
<RichEd> ogra: how do you suggest we update : http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted ?
<RichEd> can you give jsgotangco the text changes, and he can make it look pretty ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, would you like doing an edgy-gettingstarted ?
<pips1> I was hoping that highvoltage could update that... but he might be too busy
* RichEd thanks jsgotangco for his offer of help above
<jsgotangco> well sure, but to be honest i lack one more machine here to do an effective getting started
<jsgotangco> i havent even tried the 2 NIC thing
<ogra> its merely pointing out the two NIC thing, taking the screenshots from the old dapper page and dropping most of them :)
<pips1> what can be used to make screenshots from usplash and gdm...?
<ogra> i.e. the whole IP configuration stuff can go
* jsgotangco wishes his laptops had 2 nics
<ogra> qemu
<jsgotangco> let me see
<ogra> and all the "edit after install" stuff as well
<jsgotangco> ok let me grab some quick dinner first and i'll sit on it in half an hour if its ok
<ogra> from "Edubuntu installer will now detect your hardware, and then prompt you for an I.P. (Internet Protocol) address." to "Next, enter your proxy server address." everything can go
<ogra> the minimal reqs for thin clients changed to 32M ...
<RichEd> ogra: I won't send out the Edubuntu release until we have this from matt:
<ogra> we dont force PXE anymore
<RichEd> <newz2000> RichEd: I've got one ready without links to direct ISOs. Do you want that or do you want to wait for the one with the iso links?
<ogra> RichEd, ugh
<pips1> jsgotangco: please note that I changed Drupal, so when you create the new Edgy-Getting-Started page, it won't be public straight away, but in the "moderation queue" first, until I or highvoltage publish it...
<ogra> how should that work ? 
<ogra> if you link every single iso thats a heavily long list
<ogra> and totally unnecessary
<ogra> but well ... 
<pips1> ogra: Matt is using clever javascript to collapse the huge long list, afaik
<ogra> fine for him :P
<pips1> yeah, but note for us.. I prefer simple html, for quick last minute stuff, anyhow ;-=
<pips1> *not
<ogra> right
<RichEd> I've got a simple list ... wil mail to you now pips1 : it's not too long
<pips1> ok, great
<ogra> imho the list from the release announcement totally suffices ...
<ogra> but well :)
<highvoltage> pips1: hi, I'm in and out atm, what did you hope that I would update?
<highvoltage> RichEd said that you had everything under control.
<RichEd> highvoltage: it was the getting started page ... but jsgotangco and ogra should be able to manage that
<highvoltage> ok
<RichEd> highvoltage: if you some time you could (trivially) update the release news
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok, let me know
<RichEd> give me 1 min 
<pips1> RichEd: I'm still waiting for you email, it hasn't arrived so far. In the mean time, maybe I can add those links from the release announcement ogra mentioned... where do I find that? (post the url in a private message perhaps)?
<RichEd> pips1: it will be with you in 1 min
<willvdl> higvoltage, the tuxlabs infrastructure/security specs are now being used at the HPX schools
* pips1 waits patiently
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-October/000093.html
<pips1> hehe
<RichEd> mail on its way : here's the link page to check it out:
<RichEd> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download#currentrelease
<RichEd> highvoltage: you can take this page
<RichEd> http://www.edubuntu.org/news/6
<RichEd> copy to a new page ...
<RichEd> and update using:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyAnnouncementEdubuntu
<RichEd> pips1: got the list ?
<pips1> got it, working on it
<highvoltage> pips1: are you working on it? (what RichEd just described above?) I'm busy doing it too, but am fine with you doing it
<RichEd> highvoltage: pips is working on the download page
<highvoltage> ok
<RichEd> you are snappy with our news, which is why I asked you for that help
<RichEd> snappy = efficient, not grumpy
<RichEd> :)
<highvoltage> I admit I can be both at times.
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<RichEd> efficiently grumpy and/or grumpily efficient
<highvoltage> RichEd: depends on the situation
<jsgotangco> how do i create something when i can't even edit the other pages i made before?
<highvoltage> pips1 should be able to tell you, he set up new permissions
<highvoltage> RichEd: I can't access the Ubuntu wiki, it seems to be under high load
<highvoltage> RichEd: do you have another copy of that release announcement?
<highvoltage> ah, hold on... seems like it's opening now...
* jsgotangco grumbles, long day at work, weird workflow on cms
* jsgotangco gives up and plays some games
<pips1> hey jsgotangco
<pips1> I'll give you more rights, hang on a sec
<pips1> jsgotangco: there you go, you grumpy old man ;-)
<pips1> just kiddin
<jsgotangco> well its not like im the type of person that is bound to trash a whole cms
<jsgotangco> :P
<highvoltage> pips1: jsgotangco had full access rights for more than a year, he can be trusted :)
<pips1> sure
<pips1> ok, I got those mirror links for edgy onto the page, now I'll do the same for LTS
<pips1> wow, everything is under high load indeed
<RichEd> Just like debbie in dallas - when you are popular, you are popular ;)
<highvoltage> ok, most of the release announcement has been transfered and html'ised
<highvoltage> RichEd: can you access... http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8 ?
<RichEd> testing
<RichEd> highvoltage: loads fine and looks great ... one minor format wobble:
<RichEd> Edubuntu users:  http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<RichEd> Edubuntu contibutors:
<RichEd> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<RichEd> please line break both or neither 
<RichEd> thanks
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok thanks, I just saved after the first edit so there would be small problems like that :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: just wanted to test if you could access it or not
* RichEd hopes he is not making highvoltage snappy ;)
<highvoltage> RichEd: watch it, I'll let edubuntugirl take care of you ;)
<highvoltage> (she knows kung fu)
<RichEd> Is she Open Sauce ?
<jsgotangco> nice open sauce
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: know kung fu ?
<edubuntugirl> RichEd: huh?
<highvoltage> RichEd: yep
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: smack ubotu 
<edubuntugirl> *anger* *rage*
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: smack ubotu 
<edubuntugirl> I'm not a violent bot
<highvoltage> FINE
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: announce please no shouting even if you are snappy
* edubuntugirl shouts at the top of her voice "Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from RichEd!  'please no shouting even if you are snappy'!"
<highvoltage> erm...
* jsgotangco drifts away
<highvoltage> I don't think she understood :)
<willvdl> edubuntugirl: what is snappy?
<edubuntugirl> willvdl: sorry...
<willvdl> edubuntugirl: what is snappy?
<edubuntugirl> snappy is highvoltage
<willvdl> better :)
<pips1> hehe
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: define snappy
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: I'm not following you...
<highvoltage> hmmm.. will need to install that module
<highvoltage> as far as I can tell http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8 looks kind of decent, can everyone who's willing please give it a proof-read?
<mkara> hi all. I cant install Edubuntu on my pc. It locks up after the message "booting kernel"
<highvoltage> mkara: what kind of computer do you have?
<ogra> what kind of PC is that ?
<highvoltage> mkara: and for what architecture is your CD?
<highvoltage> ogra: snap
<ogra> :)
<mkara> I have x86 Edubuntu Dapper cd. I am trying to install it on an intel celeron system
<pips1> highvoltage: please remove an unnecessary line break here "working XXX thin client environment, including sound and thin client block device support."
<highvoltage> mkara: that is very unusual, did you do a disc check on the CD to make sure that it's fine?
<highvoltage> pips1: ah, thanks for spotting that, it comes from copy and pasting from the wiki
<mkara> I tried but it locked up again.
<highvoltage> mkara: is this a 6.06 cd? have you tried another Ubuntu CD and see what happend?
<pips1> also, there should be a line break after "Student Control Panel", or add a colon, at least
<highvoltage> pips1: line breaks removed
* highvoltage looks
<RichEd> highvoltage: unecessary line breaks in my firefox
<RichEd> available
<RichEd> with
<RichEd> --
<RichEd> longer
<RichEd> support
<RichEd> --
<highvoltage> -- it is then
<highvoltage> RichEd: refresh
<mkara> Yes, this is a 6.06 cd which came via shipit. I tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu and got no errors. But when I try the Edubuntu cd, my computer locks up after the message "booting kernel"
<RichEd> just did still there
<RichEd> as well as:
<RichEd> LTSP-5
<RichEd> (Linux Terminal Server Project)
<pips1> yes, I can confirm  that
<highvoltage> oh I think I see them now
<pips1> in fact, I think almost all paragraphs have unnecessary line breaks...
<pips1> if you have a wide browser window, you'll see
<RichEd> highvoltage: and the whole [under the hood]  is early CR LF
<highvoltage> it's easier to spot in firefox than the editor
<highvoltage> give me aminute...
<pips1> RichEd: I think he's on the ball :-)
<mkara> highvoltage: Yes, this is a 6.06 cd which came via shipit. I tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu and got no errors. But when I try the Edubuntu cd, my computer locks up after the message "booting kernel"
<pips1> mkara: have you tried the "test cd" option from the initial menu yet?
<highvoltage> mkara: it's very strange, since at that point ubuntu, kubuntu and edubuntu has the same booting mechanism, kernel, everything. there has been rare reports of faulty CD's. If you can confirm that the CD is faulty, it would be appreciated if you could send it back to Canonical for quality control
<highvoltage> mkara: could you try that CD on another PC perhaps?
<mkara> highvoltage: yes, I can try on another pc in a few days
<pips1> highvoltage: all the first paragraphs are looking good now. The last paragraphs below "Under the hood" need some more love 
<highvoltage> mkara: in the meantime, you could see if you can access the cd while booted into your current operating system
<highvoltage> mkara: there's also advanced boot options from the help menu in the boot screen, you could investigate that, but I doubt it would help
<mkara> highvoltage: I will inspect the cd while I am logged into WinXP and try to install on another pc. Then I will come back with the results.
<highvoltage> mkara: thank you
<highvoltage> RichEd: you mentioned ubuntu forums but didn't provide a link, so I added it
<highvoltage> ready for more proofreading: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8
<ogra> highvoltage, looks good
* RichEd refreshes again
<pips1> mkara: when you boot the edubuntu cd, you should get a first menu screen with options, like install to disk, etc. Did you get to that screen at all? If so, you can choose the option "test cd", which runs a test to see if the cd is good...
<highvoltage> he's gone
<RichEd> pips & ogra: are you both happy with the download page ?
<ogra> totally
<highvoltage> the download page looks very, very nice
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: pips1++
<pips1> I still need to add the minimal mirror listing for Dapper... but I'll do that after I had some food..
<ogra> right, what about sending out the release ?
<ogra> * announcement
<RichEd> highvoltage: still some lion brakes
<RichEd> new release incorporates
<RichEd> countless new features 
<RichEd> (at the bottom in under the hood)
<pips1> Also, what's up with the DVD download links? should I add those too? ogra ?
<RichEd> ogra: last tidy and then I'll send it ...
<ogra> pips1, yes please
<pips1> oki
<highvoltage> RichEd: I can't find it
<highvoltage> ah there it is
<pips1> highvoltage: all last paragraphs on the page, below  "Under the hood"
<highvoltage> resizing browser window also helps :)
<pips1> yep
<RichEd> sorry highvoltage : last one: try asking on the #edubuntu channel
* pips1 tries to find those DVD links
<RichEd> that's the text, not a suggestion of where you should ask
<highvoltage> :)
<RichEd> ogra: I will send to the lists: edubuntu-devel & edubuntu-users and ubuntu-education
<RichEd> ogra: do we also want one to go out on ubu8tu-announce ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think that's jst the browser that thinks the next word is too long? I can't find the line break in the source
<RichEd> *ubuntu
<jsgotangco> pips1: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<ogra> thats the omportant one, yes
<ogra> *important
<highvoltage> also, isn't it a bit too brave to announce 'countless new features'?
<pips1> jsgotangco: thanks!
<highvoltage> that's an overstatement :)
<ogra> the others are only nice to have :) -announce is what the press picks up
<ogra> highvoltage, iirc thats copied from the ubuntu announcement
<RichEd> highvoltage: indeed on both counts ... I thought I changed it in my annonce page ... it also left a lumo in my craw when I read it.
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, tehn I can live with it
<highvoltage> ogra: since we can blameshift :)
* jsgotangco wonders when will be the time when MS sends us cake
<ogra> As always, Ubuntu includes the very best of the 100% Free / Libre 
<ogra> application software world, and each new release incorporates 
<ogra> countless new features and bug fixes
<ogra> right, its there in the original as well
<ogra> we'll just point people to mdz if they complain :P
<RichEd> highvoltage: #1 line break is not there
<pips1> ogra: is the following sentence still correct, for the DVD..?
<pips1> "It contains the AMD64, PPC and i386 install CDs. If you're unsure, the safest bet is the i386 disc."
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav 
<jsgmobile> Hey uncle sbalneaves
<RichEd> highvoltage & ogra: I remember now that the line I moderated was "amost every application imaginable"
<highvoltage> ok
<pips1> ogra: ?
<ogra> pips1, nope ... a DVD iso conmtains the live and the install iso as well as all of the supported software set
<highvoltage> that's also quite brave :)
<pips1> RichEd: we need your english skills here ^^^^ 
<pips1> :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, testing go OK?
<RichEd> pips1: ??
<ogra> just finishing 
<ogra> the DVD had a major bug that made us make a rebuild
<pips1> please provide a good sentence for <ogra> " a DVD iso conmtains the live and the install iso as well as all of the supported software set"
<jsgmobile> All and set clash
<pips1> ogra: by supported software set, you main all in the "main" repository, right?
<pips1> s/main/mean/
<ogra> probably "It contains both CD images as well as most of the main component"
<jsgmobile> All the officially supported software would do
<ogra> pips1, yes
<sbalneav> The dvd ISO contains both the live, and install ISO's, as well as all the packages officially supported by Ubuntu?
<jsgmobile> Perfect
<ogra> i'd make the second "ISOs" "images"
<sbalneav> yeah, avoid repetition.
<ogra> yep
* RichEd nods
<ogra> sound good that way
<pips1> DVD in capital letters? or not?
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> indeed
* jsgmobile imagines the time we will release for blue ray
<ogra> shudder
<ogra> i hope by that time i'll be gone or have my own testers squad so i dont need to download all the isos
<jsgmobile> hahaha
<ogra> the DVD alone takes hours every time
<sbalneav> gone?
<sbalneav> GONE>?!?
<ogra> for an rsync
<jsgmobile> yeah ill just rsync both later to create my own
<sbalneav> WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, MAN!!
<pips1> sbalneav: I think he was talking about right now? 
<highvoltage> sbalneav: didn't you read RichEd's announcement?
<jsgmobile> Blueray is like next years consumer device dude
<pips1> highvoltage: huh?
<highvoltage> pips1?
* RichEd lopks up to ask what the shouting is about ? highvoltage .. what w.r.t. my announcement ?
* jsgmobile wonders where LaserJock is lately
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: logs for shout
<ogra> jsgmobile, !!
<edubuntugirl> #edubuntu Thu, 26 Oct, 11:25: * edubuntugirl shouts at the top of his voice "Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from highvoltage!  '*test* has been released'!"
<edubuntugirl> #edubuntu Thu, 26 Oct, 15:12: <RichEd> edubuntugirl: announce please no shouting even if you are snappy
<edubuntugirl> #edubuntu Thu, 26 Oct, 15:12: * edubuntugirl shouts at the top of her voice "Hear Me Now!  Hear Me Now!  Announcement from RichEd!  'please no shouting even if you are snappy'!"
<edubuntugirl> #edubuntu Thu, 26 Oct, 15:55: * RichEd lopks up to ask what the shouting is about ? highvoltage .. what w.r.t. my announcement ?
<highvoltage> the one at 15:12 :)
<ogra> sbalneav, indeed i'd never give up ... not even for blue ray :)
<RichEd> this is what I meant:
<RichEd> <sbalneav> WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, MAN!!
<RichEd> <pips1> sbalneav: I think he was talking about right now? 
<RichEd> <highvoltage> sbalneav: didn't you read RichEd's announcement?
* pips1 is confused too
<ogra> RichEd, he was talking to me :)
<sbalneav> Ogra said he'd be gone.
<sbalneav> I was just joking. :)
<RichEd> highvoltage: can you please make the release news live on the front page ?
<RichEd> has anyone got any mail from ubuntu-annonce list today ?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> ok, I add the DVD paragraph http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<ogra> RichEd, didnt you get tollefs announcement ? 
<RichEd> I joined yesterday, but don't see any email in my inbox ... strange
<ogra> i know the kubuntu one sits still in the queue, but is sent as well
<pips1> hey, I just read JaneW's birthday congrats :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok
<highvoltage> RichEd: done
<pips1> what about the wiki starting page?! we need to update that too!
<highvoltage> Congratulations!
<RichEd> highvoltage: getting ubuntu-annnounce mail ready now
<RichEd> pips1: the getting started page ?
<pips1> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
<pips1> ^^^  it links directly from the main menu on edubuntu.org
<pips1> it still reads Edubuntu 6.06 etc
<pips1> ack
<highvoltage> RichEd: great
<RichEd> pips1: okay ... that is next on the list
<pips1> I started going through it earlier, but then switched over to working on the downloads page
<pips1> should I simply remove/unlink several outdated wiki pages on the wiki-startpage, and simply update the paragraph about 6.06 to 60.10?
* pips1 goes ahead with it...
<ogra> no, not 60.10 please ... 
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> i'd be dust already if we were at 60.10 :)
* highvoltage imagines ogra hacking away in old age home
<pips1> blimey, that wiki page is outdated
* pips1 is a bit fazed about updating that page. 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i think he'll be too rich to be in one though
<pips1> I need to get some food...
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: great! I hope you'll have space in your mansion for me when you're that old!
<ogra> jsgotangco, well, i doubt that :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we can play lan games when we're too old to do anything else all day
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i'll let you play in my asteroid sure
<jsgotangco> whenever i boot to edgy i feel that dapper is so slow already
<pips1> wow, that was effective. hitting ctrl-q by accident
<pips1> ogra, is there a general page about helping to test Edubuntu? 
<pips1> I think the edubuntu-specific is outdated by now... right?
<pips1> RichEd: so what do we do about that wiki page? are you sending the release announcement nevertheless?
* pips1 goes to get food
<RichEd> pips1: the wiki page is not mentioned in the announcement
<RichEd> I will get it sent, and then we can look at the wiki page
<ogra> pips1, testing should always only apply to the development release
<highvoltage> RichEd: do you know if the riots are still taking place on the N2?
<ogra> RichEd, make sure to notify a moderator about the mail to -announce
<ogra> i.e. mdz
<ogra> they dont get passed automatically
<RichEd> highvoltage: not sure ... I heavily suspect this was a plot by the A*C to draw news attention from away Helen Zille's democratic march 
<RichEd> ogra: okay ... do I just let him know that there is a mail waiting for his attention ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok, I need to go home now but I think I'll just take the N1, even though it will take longer
* highvoltage will be back in ~45 min
<lguerra> #ubuntu-education
<lucasvo> howdy!
<lucasvo> congrats!
<pips1> :)
* pips1 is looking at the drupal logs
<pips1> hmm. next to the startpage and the download page, the screenshots page is rather popular... 
<pips1> the release announcement news item is looked at too, of course
<jsgotangco> people love screenshots especially if they're looking at something new
<pips1> well, the screenshots on our page aren't new, are they :-/
<jsgotangco> that's why osdir is too popular for such
<jsgotangco> shame, shame ;)
<pips1> well, its mostly the first two screenshots we could have updated, the desktop background ones.
<pips1> Search: upgrade (content).
<pips1> Search: system requirements (content).
<pips1> hmm
<lucasvo> anyone know telepathy? is it possible to have a backend and frontent on different machines?
<cbx33> lucasvo, did you get any further ;)
<lucasvo> cbx33: I didn't do anythong
<cbx33> i thoguht you got to lvl3
<cbx33> ?
<lucasvo> yes, 
<cbx33> but no further?
<lucasvo> no
<cbx33> ahhh
* pips1 notices weak attempts for ms server exploits on our site
* highvoltage arrives
<pips1> hey, did you get home well?
<highvoltage> yes, thanks
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you receive the email as well?
* highvoltage opens mail client
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the spelling errors one?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> shame shame shame
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: you should be part of blatant-and-awkward team
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: as I'm reading through them, most of them are copied and pasted from Canonical and Ubuntu wiki pages ;)
<jsgotangco> lol
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: wow, just finished reading, we should encourage him to get more involved
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the mistakes he pointed out has been so for more than a year now, and no one else has picked it up, he can be useful to polish up our docs
<jsgotangco> yeah the project doesn't need slackers like us anymore
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sorry, didn't mean it like that
<sbalneav> Ah, corrections from a spelling-and-grammerphile?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i was kidding
<highvoltage> I just meant that he has skills that we can exploit
<jsgotangco> exploit is such an evil term muhahaha
<highvoltage> I know :)
<highvoltage> (which is why I love it so)
<sbalneav> s/exploit/chain him to a desk/
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: are you replying to him?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I can. If you want to that would be great too.
<highvoltage> or we can both reply to him even.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you have all the rights you need now in the Edubuntu CMS?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i believe so...i've just lost the energy today to edit stuff
<jsgotangco> and its almost midnight
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, it's no problem, I just want to know that you have the rights, then it's ok
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: if you could test it it would be great
<highvoltage> just so that we know you could edit in an emergency when pips1 or me isn't around
<highvoltage> It would be ideal if we could have an editor in every timezone.
* jsgotangco deletes front page
<pips1> hehe
<jsgotangco> thanks it seems to work now
* jsgotangco has his mojo back
<pips1> hey, are those corrections you are talking about relevant to the website?
<jsgotangco> yes
<pips1> anything urgent?
<jsgotangco> mostly spelling
<pips1> ic
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, I'll forward to you
<pips1> ok
<pips1> I'll need to go soon.. I can just do a couple of tweaks, if there is anything urgent..
<highvoltage> pips1: it's nothing urgent
<highvoltage> check your mailbox when you have a spot, it's forwarded to you.
<pips1> that's a relief
* pips1 checks
<pips1> got it
<sbalneav> Is there a GOOD way to install a package, but basically leave it unconfigured? 
<sbalneav> Here's my situation.
<sbalneav> I want to install the pam-ldap packages.
<sbalneav> But, our ldap config's so customized, I have a script, which I could turn into a deb, to do the config.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: do you really need it installed?
<sbalneav> So, Ideally, what I'd like to do is:
<sbalneav> yeah, we use a lot of ldap here.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: dpkg --unpack file.deb
<sbalneav> apt-get install --don't-run-through-the-install-questions pam-ldap
<sbalneav> Hmm
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> then could just do a download only on the package.
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> that's apt-get -d
<highvoltage> apt-get -d install pam-ldap
<highvoltage> dpkg --unpack /var/cache/apt/archives/pam-ldap*deb
<highvoltage> I don't know if you need a -i with that dpkg, I don't think so
<sbalneav> Wonder if there's something with the debconf question level that could be done.
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<highvoltage> sbalneav: sorry, I've been making too many assumptions. is this a once-off installation, or is this part of an installation you are working on?
* highvoltage is way too used to working with users
<sbalneav> I've got 13 servers to configure, so, what I'd like to do is:
<sbalneav> create some local .deb's that install docs to /usr/share/doc, and have scripts that configure services.
<sbalneav> So, for instance, legalaid-ldap-config.deb would...
<sbalneav> install the pam-ldap module, skipping the config debconf questions
<sbalneav> then, use sed scripts to automagically configure things the way I want.
<sbalneav> so, in the end, all I have to do is add the legalaid local repository,
<sbalneav> and do a apt-get install legalaid-desktop
<sbalneav> to provision a new server!
<sbalneav> :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think it might be quickest and easies to have a legalaid-pam-ldap package that just has a conflicts/replace pam-ldap
<highvoltage> sbalneav: (I'm in no way proficient with packaging)
<highvoltage> but it would take you 5 minutes, and it would work properly.
* jsgotangco wish he has 13 servers at his disposal
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: be careful what you wish for!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i work for a poor foundation
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I thought the foundation you work for was a big rich foundation?
<highvoltage> are you serious?
<jsgotangco> our hearts are big
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> but our technology really sucks
<jsgotangco> so i am a bit overwhelmed at work
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: NT SERVER 4
<sbalneav> hmmm
<sbalneav> dpkg-preconfigure looks interesting
<jsgotangco> 3COM SUPERSTACK II HUB
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: anyway, i discovered techsoup.com today
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: NT4!? oh no!
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: sometimes i ask myself what i have gotten into
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: that's when you know you're doing something right :)
<highvoltage> if things go to easy, you're not making a difference, you're just going with the flow.
<jsgotangco> i just say to myself i was put there by an invisible hand with  a purpose
<highvoltage> *sigh*. yes that invisible hand can do some strange things.
<highvoltage> there's a quote from Mario Andretti where he says: "If you're in control, you're not going fast enough"
<jsgotangco> but i still cry within whenever i have to do something on NT server 4
<highvoltage> I love that quote :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: our mother company is rich for sure, we are shielded from BSA stuff
<highvoltage> well, I'm sure you'll be able to change that long-term.
<jsgotangco> probably not on the front end though, we're a lotus notes organization
<jsgotangco> *sigh*
<jsgotangco> i go through numerous hacks and what nots just to bypass the ISA server of the network
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: its pretty much a command-and-control type of organization at the moment
<juliux> edubuntugirl, welcome back;)
<edubuntugirl> juliux: sorry...
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: but i would like to change it to collaborate-and-connect
<highvoltage> she just had to go to join #ubuntu-education :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah, I see. that often leaves little space for innovation and creativity and problem solving
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I feel for you
<hmd32> hi all
<juliux> highvoltage, ask seveas for an cloack for edubuntugirl
<highvoltage> juliux: ok
<highvoltage> hi hmd32 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: unfortunately we're no tsf heh
<juliux> highvoltage, i remeber that there was something that freenode dont like unknown bots
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: and im afraid my project would end up proprietary
<pips1> quote from #ubuntu-devel: <blueyed> Is there a channel for the website? http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download?action=show&redirect=download does not work with Konqueror (the javascript click-open part).. :/
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: trust me, we had some of those problems too
<highvoltage> it can happen in any organisation
<pips1> hah! there you go! fancy smancy javascript
<highvoltage> juliux: ok, I'll clear it with seveas
<pips1> ;-)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ugh. that sux.
<highvoltage> I refuse to work on a propriety product... unless they pay me so much that I can buy them out again and re-license the software anyway
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: maybe my approach is wrong, maybe i should educate them first
<highvoltage> pips1: ^5
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it couldn't hurt.
<highvoltage> problem is people who make choices don't want to be educated. they just want more control.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: well tomorrow it'll be presented on a league of non-profits but i won't be there
<jsgotangco> so im pretty worried about it
<jsgotangco> im sure they'll like it
<jsgotangco> but im afraid on how they would package it
<highvoltage> that's a tough one.
<highvoltage> perhaps you should try to organise an internal presentation
<jsgotangco> oh i actually did
<highvoltage> where you explain free software and the benefits of using linux in education to key staff
<highvoltage> oh great.
<highvoltage> how did it go?
<jsgotangco> the problem is that we're talking about media people, the final frontier of the free content world
<Burgwork> highvoltage: google + solaris is a rumour
<jsgotangco> the first reaction was "let's put it on our premium content streaming service" running on windows media server
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> Burgwork: aaaah
<jsgotangco> but god bless my boss she is spiritually in touch with the philosophy of foss
<Brian_> I'm new to edubuntu . . . trying to set it up for a preschool and install some older windows software.  Can anyone help?
<jsgotangco> so in a way, i am close to salvation
<jsgotangco> Brian_: what older windows software are we talking about
<Brian_> It is a Disney title for preschoolers
<tideline> Brian_: is it a Windows program?
<Brian_> It is for Win95/98/Me/XP
<Brian_> I installed wine (I think it worked)
* highvoltage replies to Burgwork's message
<tideline> Brian_: you will probably have to install wine, Windows software does not run natively on linux - usually
<Brian_> I followed instructions in wine's site for installing it.
<tideline> did you get an error
<Brian_> When I try to run the setup.exe from terminal, it says permission denied.
<pips1> Brian_: is your particular ms application listed on the wine site?
<Brian_> I am logged in as the *only* user
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: fight fight fight
<Brian_> didn't find it there.
<jsgotangco> !
<pips1> right
<highvoltage> Brian_: try "wine setup.exe"
<Brian_> okay
<pips1> I only have limited experience with wine myself
<highvoltage> Brian_: Ubuntu's kernel doesn't have the wine patch installed, so you have to run the program with wine
<tideline> me too
<highvoltage> Brian_: #ubuntu is also a better place for wine questions
<Brian_> okay.  I got farther, at least . . . I will try #ubuntu to deal with the errors now.  Thank you!
<pips1> well, and potentially a lot more people around to answer them! #ubuntu has over 1000 users at the mo
<highvoltage> further.
<cliebow> `anyone using nx in edgy?
<Brian_> It seems to be installing now.  Thanks so much, and have a great day!!!!!!
<highvoltage> Brian_: great! you too!
<tideline> cliebow: you mean NoMachine NX, the terminal server?
<cliebow> tideline:yes exactly..open source version that fabian did
<cliebow> i use it in breezt=y dapper and rh
<tideline> cliebow: ok just wanted to clarify - personally no I have not
<jsgotangco> oh man, a friend just sent me a music sampler of ABBA heavy metal style
<cliebow> i dont know whether i dare use the seveas repo
<jsgotangco> oh he's pretty trustworthy in an ubuntu-sense
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> ciao
<highvoltage> goodnight jsgotangco 
<tideline> sleep tight
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: seen RichEd 
<edubuntugirl> RichEd was last seen on #edubuntu 2 hours, 9 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: ogra: okay ... do I just let him know that there is a mail waiting for his attention ? [Thu Oct 26 16:19:14 2006] 
<RichEd> higvoltage ... alternatively you can ask me directly
<sbalneav> RichEd: seen RichEd
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl responds faster :)
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: excuse me?
<RichEd> yes ... he's right here inside me
<sbalneav> LOL
<RichEd> but would edbuntugirl give you an answer like that ;)
<pips1> RichEd: I got that mirrors list from Matt Nuzum, but he is re-working it, since there was a glitch in the javascript causing problems on the Konqurerer browser.. I'll wait with updating that link listing, till the "dust settles a bit"... :)
<RichEd> sure ... I think we are fine for today ...
<pips1> yeah
<RichEd> thanks for all of your help ... been a busy 48 hours
<pips1> thanks for the thanks
<RichEd> pips1: busy with a presentation ... hence my quiteness at the moment
<RichEd> quietness
<pips1> I'll be gone in a bit... but we'll talk soon again
<bddebian> Heya
<lguerra_working> pips, the transparencies of the images are seen blue in IE
<highvoltage> that is my fault mostly. I only tested sparcely on IE :/
<highvoltage> people who insist on using IE should use IE7 at least. that handles transparency (apparently)
<lguerra_working> highvoltage, you give me 5 minutes and already I confirm you that
<highvoltage> lguerra_working: ok :)
<pips1> nice, lguerra testing ie7 :)
<lguerra_working> :X
<pips1> good stuff.
<pips1> highvoltage: jsgotangco I fixed up those spelling mistakes
<lguerra_working> pips1, in my work I have obliged that to use Windows
<pips1> I think that is actually the case in more places that one would suspect :-/
<lguerra_working> but my baby (server) is a nice Ubuntu Dapper
<pips1> :)
<pips1> highvoltage: jsgotangco are you going to reply to to the person who sent the spelling corrections? I'd be nice to get him involved for proof reading :)
<jsgotangco> pips1: please feel free to reply to the guy, its 1am on my side and im about to drop in front my my laptop ;)
<pips1> ok, I'll reply
<lguerra_working> highvoltage, I feel it, the great system of authenticity of microsoft failure again, the portatil with original license that buy the company cannot be authenticated :P
<highvoltage> lguerra_working: heh
<highvoltage> pips1: I'd like to reply to him
<pips1> highvoltage: please do!
<highvoltage> pips1: but if you want to instead, I'm fine with it too :)
<pips1> go ahead
<highvoltage> ok, will do in next 30 minutes or so
<highvoltage> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hi hih
<LaserJock> highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm quite bummed that I can't go to MTV :/
<highvoltage> it didn't bother me until now. I don't know why it does now. I think it's probably seeing the specs and knowing that I'll have to miss out on some great bof's
<LaserJock> well jsgotangco's blog reminded me of Paris
<jsgotangco> im bummed myself
<LaserJock> and the fun we had
<jsgotangco> but then i didnt do much for edgy either
<LaserJock> well, I'm only going to be in Mt View for Sunday and Monday
<LaserJock> so I'll miss out on quite a bit
<LaserJock> but I'm not going to let that get in the way of working on Edubuntu Feisty ;-)
<highvoltage> this december I have three weeks leave AND internet connectivity :)
<highvoltage> I plan to do some fun stuff then
<LaserJock> for me personally I'm feeling like the biggest challenge for Edubuntu is customizability
<LaserJock> being able to adapt to any educational setting
<highvoltage> it is quite important indeed.
<highvoltage> for me it's about balance between performance, stabality and functionality.
<highvoltage> it seems like we've got a good balance of goals within the edubuntu team
<LaserJock> yes
<highvoltage> I think we should do more to get it 'on paper'
<LaserJock> that's what I really like
<LaserJock> yeah, I agree
<LaserJock> we should have an Edubuntu tasks page
<LaserJock> or something
<highvoltage> yep
<LaserJock> specs are good for the larger things
<highvoltage> the what-we-would-do-if-we-had-all-the-time-and-resources-in-the-world page :)
<LaserJock> but we need like a "These are the little things we want to do with Edubuntu"
<highvoltage> aah, I see
<LaserJock> I'm interested in more menuing things
<highvoltage> like 4 or 5 top level goals
<highvoltage> am I correct?
<LaserJock> things for people to work on
<highvoltage> ok, now I see.
<LaserJock> things people are interested in working on
<LaserJock> right now we have the high level specs for big things like LTSP
<LaserJock> but just putting down on "paper" the various things people would like to work on
<LaserJock> kinda like Edubuntu mini-specs :-)
<highvoltage> yep, that sounds cool
<LaserJock> because I think we are getting a few more people who can actually do the work
<highvoltage> but for it to get into Edubuntu, it would have to become a launchpad spcc eventually
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> I can do whatever I want :-)
<highvoltage> well, I suppose as long as its in main it can go into Edubuntu
<LaserJock> we need to spec the big things that need discussion
<LaserJock> or have big consequences
<LaserJock> but they aren't going to reject something simply because it doesn't have a spec
<LaserJock> specs are a bit more important, IMO, for the Canonical people because they have to justify and document their time
<highvoltage> ah yes.
<LaserJock> but the community can more-or-less do whatever they want as long as it meets Ubuntu's standards
<highvoltage> I haven't really looked at it that way yet. I think I got a bt caught up in the process.
<LaserJock> I mean, it's more fun to spec things out at a summit and for important features it's really needed
<LaserJock> but there are a lot of little things we can just "do"
<highvoltage> yes. I understand better now why a list like that would be a good idea.
<LaserJock> if they turn into formal specs then that's great
<highvoltage> what is there you can think of, besides the menus?
<LaserJock> I'm also interested in content area meta packages
<highvoltage> to be honest, the menus does sound like a big complicated thing, I wouldn't categorise that as quick and easy :)
<LaserJock> edubuntu-science-chemistry ,etc.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, I have an initial implementation of the menus in Edgy
<highvoltage> that would be cool, yes.
<LaserJock> that was the most invasive part
<LaserJock> now it's just making it pretty and usable
<LaserJock> but I did register a spec for it anyway
<LaserJock> edubuntu-menus-completion
<LaserJock> just because we need a -completion spec at each summit ;-)
<highvoltage> yep
<LaserJock> but I'm still thinking about Edubuntu in the context of moving maybe to something like an add-on CD
<highvoltage> what do you mean? edubuntu itself becoming an add-on CD? or it gaining an add-on cd?
<LaserJock> edubuntu itself
<LaserJock> I like the idea of an educational layer
<LaserJock> that you put on top of whatever flavour you're using
<LaserJock> so like if you ordered an Edubuntu CD from Shipit, you get an Ubuntu cd (you can use on a dept. server or admin desktops) + the Edubuntu CD (for LTSP servers and classrooms)
<highvoltage> it's a good concept, and it would solve a bunch of problems, but it would not be a turn-key solution anymore
<LaserJock> it would allow us a lot of freedom space wise
<highvoltage> ltsp only takes a few KB on the CD, so I don't think you need another cd for that
<highvoltage> it would
<imbrandon_> hum is there a way to just use the ltsp part on kubuntu ?
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: yep
<imbrandon_> gota  howto ?
<imbrandon_> heh
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: then ltsp-build-client
<pygi> imbrandon_: then build clients ^_^
<pygi> yay^_^
<highvoltage> pygi: indeed :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: but I'm thinking much bigger then LTSP
<imbrandon_> ok i have a i386 server but ppc clients is that a problem ?
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: there's documentation for it on the Ubuntu wiki too
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I understand, sorry :)
<pygi> imbrandon_: no, we have wiki page for that situation I think ^_^
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: it's possible to do multiarch, althouh I haven't tried it yet
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: there's docs for that on the wiki... just a sec..
<imbrandon_> kk
<pygi> imbrandon_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
<pygi> highvoltage: done ;)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: pygi++
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: karma pygi 
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: pygi has karma of 1
<imbrandon_> :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: heh, that's my weirdness in working on Edubuntu. I've never used LTSP and probably won't for some time
<pygi> highvoltage: ^_^
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: there's more docs here if you need it: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<imbrandon_> thanks fellas
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: of course, youre still free to ask :)
<pygi> imbrandon_: just don't eat us :P
<imbrandon_> heh
* pygi was just joking around :(
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think that's fine, since edubuntu is bigger than ltsp, and many people are playing with ltsp :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: ++ becosue thats the main reason i dont setup full edubuntu, no kde
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I do think you'll find a reason to use it once diskless fat clients are available. I mean... that's uber cool for universities, imho
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: there's a little kde in edubuntu, at least
<highvoltage> imbrandon_: we install the kdelibs and the kde edutainment suite
<LaserJock> highvoltage: maybe, they are talking about getting rid of the computer lab in my department :(
<pygi> LaserJock: !!!
<highvoltage> to install the kde desktop is only a small additional step
<imbrandon_> highvoltage: but not the DE :)
<jsgotangco> its not that much
<highvoltage> LaserJock: eek, that suc
<jsgotangco> kdelibs ate a huge chunk
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: eets
<imbrandon_> jsgotangco: i know, just adding my 0.2c
* jsgotangco goes back to sleep
<LaserJock> yeah, I think it'd be nice to have a way to put an educational layer of top of Xubuntu, Kubuntu, or Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: the probelm is that you'll have to look into curriculum and countries differ on that regard
<jsgotangco> no school would use something that is not part of curriculum
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> well, my uni would but that's sort of a corner case at this point
<highvoltage> wikipedia isn't specifically curriculum aligned and schools use it.
<jsgotangco> yes so you will have to make software that complements the curriculum
<LaserJock> I just wonder if making Edubuntu as flexible as we can would improve that
<LaserJock> something like a "Build your own Edubuntu"
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i like the strategy of providing a good base of tools
<pygi> LaserJock: like "Reconstructor"?
<LaserJock> pygi: yes, but better and specific to Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but kinda like that
<pygi> LaserJock: you could always play with it to make it fit Edubuntu needs ^_^
<LaserJock> I guess my problem is that I'm not really used to how k-12 schools work
<LaserJock> regarding computer
<LaserJock> we never had  computers in my school
<LaserJock> and I'm more geared into university teaching
<jsgotangco> its quite challenging
<LaserJock> I understand the curriculum issue a bit
<jsgotangco> you also get schools that prefer a desktop solution rather than a server one
<tideline> my question is how do you really "sell" linux to s school?
<LaserJock> and that's why I think having Edubuntu be the building blocks that individual schools use to build a distro for them is appealing
<jsgotangco> tideline: you sell a solution, not a product
<highvoltage> LaserJock: support would be a challenge too I think, since we'd need enough 'edubuntu' people that understands kde, gnome, xfce, nexenta, or whatever else we'd like to support
<pygi> LaserJock: I can name only one school teacher in Croatia who would PERHAPS be able to build his own distro, with anything
<jsgotangco> you don't sell edubuntu as is, but sell an educational solution that uses edubuntu
<tideline> I have a school that my son attends that is open to the idea, but I think in my geekyness I cant explain Linux to them in term they understand
<highvoltage> it would mean more documentation too
<pygi> LaserJock: high school*
<tideline> jsgotangco: thats what I mean
<highvoltage> and more complication when introducing more features
<tideline> the total package
<tideline> lab set up, wireless gateway, storage etc
<LaserJock> highvoltage: maybe
<tideline> they are interested but hesitant
<LaserJock> but my gut feeling is that we shouldn't be in the core distro business but in the education software business
<LaserJock> but maybe I need to look at it differently
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: well we provide a base
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I guess my question is, should we be doing that? or should Ubuntu be doing that
<tideline> /usr/local/bin/memcached -u memcached -d -m 2048
<tideline> crap sorry
<tideline> copy/paste error 
<jsgotangco> you think its a good idea for ubuntu to have kdeedu as well?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I think the Edubuntu educational layer should have that
<jsgotangco> imho, we're pretty much a core edu-distro that provides a base for edu solutions
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and I'm thinking we need to either be and educational layer on top of *buntu or provide more flexibility for edu solutions
<LaserJock> the case of people wanting to run KDE is an example
<LaserJock> we are "locked" into certain things right now
<LaserJock> is that providing a base for edu solutions?
<divan> hello
<jsgotangco> it really depends on what your packaged solution is
<divan> can someone please tell me is it safe to upgrade from dapper to edgy?
<pygi> divan: it is ^_^
<jsgotangco> divan: yes
<divan> and how do you do this? For ltsp?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I do agree with you.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have an alternative suggestion
<highvoltage> LaserJock: and that's that we have edubuntu meta-packages for kde
<divan> don't you have to rm -rf /opt/i386 and recreate it?
<divan> and all sorts? There used to be an upgrade doc...
<highvoltage> so you install edubuntu-kde metapackage, that install edubuntu artwork, kde-edu, etc.
<LaserJock> yes, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about, although I think we might be moving more toward tasks rather then metapackages
<LaserJock> I just don't know
<LaserJock> I mean, I'm certainly no expert here
<LaserJock> but these are the things I've been trying to think about lately
<divan> pygi: Any ideas how to go about upgrading?
<LaserJock> especially with the work RichEd is doing
<divan> jsgotangco:?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: congratulations on your country's new great wall (or fence) hehhehehe
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: thank you. I'm sure it will be immigrant-proof ;-)
<jsgotangco> make sure its has high voltage
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<LaserJock> hehe
<pygi> divan: always ^_^
<pygi> divan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<divan> perfect!
<divan> thanks guys! :D
<divan> You all rock  hehe :)
<pygi> divan: ^_^
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: well based on my experience, if the discussion goes into the delivery of educational materials with not much focus on the backend running, its always a good thing
<divan> Found some docs :) will do adios ;)
<pygi> bye divan 
<divan> :)
<nixternal> good job guys with 6.10! congrats goes out to this entire team!
<highvoltage> 
<LaserJock> yes, it's been a fun and productive release
<pygi> nixternal: ^_^
<LaserJock> everybody did a good job, I just wish I could have helped out more
<pygi> LaserJock: and it'll be better for feisty ^_^ But without me :(
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that's what *everybody* says :)
<nixternal> i woke up super sick this morning...my eyes are half shut, my brain is in pain..i got the edgy release blues
<sbalneav> How come without you?
<highvoltage> nixternal: ouch man, get some rest. you need to be fresh for feisty ;)
<LaserJock> btw, I've actually accomplished something on a Gnome periodic table
<LaserJock> in C++ even
<LaserJock> I'm pretty excited
<pygi> sbalneav: well, since I managed to do a lot of bad things during the edgy cycle, and I've exhusted myself with not much sleep (like 2h per night) ...
<nixternal> i have already started with feisty
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ooh
<sbalneav> What bad things did you do? :) None that I'm aware of.
<nixternal> i went ahead and changed the <!ENTITY distro-rev '7.04'> & <!ENTITY distro-version 'Feisty Fawn'>
<jsgotangco> hah
<pygi> sbalneav: first, I promised to become MOTU. Failed. Promised to deliver Handbook same day with release. Failed. Promised to come to MV. Failed. Everything else...Failed
<jsgotangco> ive actually done stuff outside edubuntu though
<jsgotangco> like finishing up my todos in jokosher
<LaserJock> pygi: but you made progress, that's the important part
<LaserJock> pygi: maybe you need to be more realistic in your promises, I know I've been having that problem lately too
<pygi> LaserJock: involving what exactly? :P Everyone keep telling about progress but there is none :)
<pygi> LaserJock: well, my MOTU stuff mostly has to do with not being able to get signed keys, not my packaging skills ;P
<LaserJock> you worked on stuff
<highvoltage> I'm getting sucked into more and more Xubuntu stuff.
<pygi> LaserJock: Handbook ... eh, as always, a lot of problems with it, me and Susan practicly wrote the Dapper one on our own
<LaserJock> not as much as you wanted too for sure
<highvoltage> they seem to be an even smaller team than Edubuntu. I'm amazed at how much they get done.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yes, they are quite good
<highvoltage> I do need to get more involved in packaging stuff... it's important that I get good at it for my dayjob
<LaserJock> highvoltage: they have a decent amount of documentation too
<highvoltage> I can already create decent packages, but I still haven't gotten into things like pbuilder yet
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
* LaserJock takes highvoltage's hand and leads him to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<pygi> highvoltage: pbuilder is quite trivial ^_^
<jsgotangco> pbuilder is not complicated
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have it in my firefox bookmark folder :)
<highvoltage> pygi: I think the reason why I haven't done it yet is just because I *think* it's complicated :)
<highvoltage> and therefore I make it complicated for myself
<pygi> highvoltage: no good, no good ;)
<jsgotangco> a chroot is much scarier than a pbuilder
<highvoltage> what the heck. I don't have any deadlines for tomorrow, or anything important for tonight, I'll read the packaging guide tonight
<pygi> jsgotangco: even chroot is not complicated
<jsgotangco> pygi: but you're pygi and im only jsgotangco
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, well, I'm very comfortable with chroots :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: prepare to be flooded with questions!!! mhuahhaahahah
* highvoltage joins #ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> I find pbuilder to be fairly complicated when you start to use if for various cool things
<LaserJock> just building a .deb isn't bad at all
<pygi> jsgotangco: heh, true, but still ...
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: this is one of my problems http://technology.inq7.net/infotech/infotech/view_article.php?article_id=28937
<LaserJock> argg, what app is used to get screenshots in Gnome when I just want 1 window
<highvoltage> gimp
<jsgotangco> gimp
<highvoltage> gimp -> file -> acquare screenshot -> single window
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: what the heck is ICT?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: excellent
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: ahhh its what we call Information and Communication Technology 
<jsgotangco> its an asian thing
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: here too
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we're quite lucky that in the one province, we have an office within the education department, and we have a tuxlab in their center too, which officials use to do their admin
<sbalneav> pygi: Don't be so hard on yourself.  Those of us who AREN'T Canonical employees are unpaid volunteers.  If you added ONE line to the handbook, if you at least started THINKING about being a MOTU, if you at least TRIED to get to MV, you've done more than 99.99999999% of the population of the planet :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we've got excellent buy-in there.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: now you sound like my math teacher!
<pygi> sbalneav: where do you get all that inspiration? :P
<highvoltage> pygi: he's right though
<sbalneav> I didn't get all the stuff done that I wanted to either: but I did get SOME stuff in, and the next 6 months will get even MORE stuff done.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: my problem is that there is no such thing like that here at all, and my project is probably the first one to do such
<highvoltage> sbalneav: where can we get your handbook?
<jsgotangco> in the public school sector
<pygi> highvoltage: his handbook? :P
<highvoltage> pygi: LTSP handbook
<sbalneav> it's on the svn repo
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: is there such thing as an LTSP book? (printed)
<pygi> highvoltage: oh, that ^_^
<sbalneav> No!  Wish there was.
* jsgotangco grins at LaserJock
<sbalneav> It'd be out-of-date now anyway, with the new LTSP-5 model.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<pygi> sbalneav: you could write one ;)
<sbalneav> :)
* pygi :)
<sbalneav> I'd rather get sound and cdburning going next :P
<sbalneav> pygi: don't give up, just keep plugging.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: is there a big demand for that?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: why are you grinning at me?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: probably
<sbalneav> As Red Green says: "Remember, we're all in this together:
<sbalneav> "
<highvoltage> we've had very little demand for cd burning in our labs yet.
<sbalneav> Our users would love it.
<sbalneav> But I was too busy with the localdevs stuff pre-launch to give pygi much of a hand with it.
<highvoltage> I guess it would be useful to tuxlabs in terms of backups. they wouldn't have to do it from the server anymore
* sbalneav shrugs
<highvoltage> more of 'I wish I could do more' :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you rock!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: sbalneav++
<sbalneav> We'll get it for feisty.  And if not for feisty, for Galloping Gazelle.  And if not for Galloping, we'll get if for Hungry Hippo
<LaserJock> ok, here's a shot of what I've been doing: http://www.laserjock.us/ubuntu/gchemtable.png
<sbalneav> Free Software's a journey, not a destination. 
<jsgotangco> i like your zen!
<sbalneav> And what matters most is, who's on the trip with you :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: and that you eat well on your journey ;-)
<pygi> sbalneav: bad thing is there won't be new libburn release (altought it's actually preety ready now) until I implement some libisofs features Kamion requested
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it's strange that you should mention that, I've had some deep thoughts about my life earlier this week and came to a similar conclusion, and I feel more energised because of it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: does something happen when you click on one of the elements atm?
<pygi> I feel very bad lately, I've ran into a lot of bad situations because I'm open source fan and contributor
<LaserJock> sure
<pygi> mostly at my uni
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it's kinda silly, I just added the color scheme
<LaserJock> but what I'm doing is reading in data for BODR wich is a new chemical information open source database
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's progress!
<LaserJock> that's what the neat part is
<highvoltage> pygi: really, don't feel bad about it, unless you've been neglecting your friends and family or something
<pygi> highvoltage: nothing really :) I just failed exam because I refused to work on Windows, was kicked out of classes for arguing why and how good Linux is, etc ^_^
<pygi> nothing too serious tho :P
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yes, If you can eat well, have fun, be with your friends,  and make a positive difference in people's lives, no matter how small, well, what the heck more can you possibly ask out of life?
<highvoltage> pygi: wow, did you blog about it? you should create some awareness around it
<highvoltage> pygi: it's the best way to put pressure on big people. *lots of noise*
<pygi> highvoltage: doesn't matter =)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I just keep getting a bigger fan of you. :)
<pygi> and wasn't actually kicked really, just warned several times, bla bla that I should stop that :)
<sbalneav> \o/
<pygi> but I really went out from exam :P
<highvoltage> in high school, a woman I know gave me a long speach about how I'm young and naive and I think I can change the world, and how I'll grow up one day and how I'll realise that I can't.
<pygi> highvoltage: things don't matter here, everyone is ignoring
<pygi> highvoltage: I'm fighting every day with everyone at uni
<sbalneav> highvoltage: That's baloney.
<sbalneav> Don't ever, EVER stop wanting to make things better.
<highvoltage> then, after speaking to a wise friend, he told me that you don't have to make a big change in the world to change the world. you can just make a difference in one person's life, and you'd have made a change for the better.
<sbalneav> Absolutely.
<highvoltage> so since then I've ignored what she said. and I've been prooving her wrong ever since, bit by bit.
<pygi> sbalneav: right, but you'd understand what I'm talking about if you were here :)
<pygi> Don't wanna say some things because of logs, altought I think that persons who I'm reffering tho can't/arent capable of finding them :)
<sbalneav> pygi: Well, you have to function within the parameters of your environment.  Refusing to work on windows is definitely going to hurt you.  But maybe giving your teacher a live edubuntu CD, and asking him/her to look at it, or inviting them by the channel is a positive way to make that first small step.
<pygi> sbalneav: refusing to work on windows will hurt me, perhaps. But just for now ^_^
<sbalneav> Life is like the Free Software model.  Sometimes you can make huge changes, and sometimes, just making nice, small improvements is good too.
<pygi> highvoltage: was thinking about blogging, but we don't wanna make people fail exams 'cause of that, no? :)
<LaserJock> boy, Scotty's all philosophical today
<pygi> sbalneav: make windows crash often, word is crashing, everything ^_^
<pygi> => Linux ^_^
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you been watching Forest Gump lately? ;-)
<sbalneav> Anywho, your studies are most important.  As the old saying goes, "If you think Education is expensive, try ignorance" :)
<sbalneav> Nah, I've always been pretty zen.
<pygi> sbalneav: I'll fail my studies anyway :P
<Brian_> Hi.  New user of edubuntu, and I have permissions question.
<sbalneav> Brian_: Sure.
<highvoltage> Brian_: you have permission to ask
<Brian_> I'm trying to download some additional plugins for childsplay, and cannot unpack a tgz because I do not have permissions.
<Brian_> lol, thanks for the permission.
<Brian_> Is there a root user?
<pygi> Brian_: dont we have packages? :)
<pygi> Brian_: there is "sudo" :)
<highvoltage> Brian_: how do you currenlty untar it? with the tar command?
<sbalneav> try "sudo tar xzvf some-package.tar.gz"
<highvoltage> Brian_: you can just add sudo before the command
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: sudo
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: huh?
<highvoltage> egh
<highvoltage> !sudo
<ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
<Brian_> there is a package for childsplay, but not for the plugins
<sbalneav> Who's hosting edubuntugirl?
<Brian_> Oh, okay
<highvoltage> sbalneav: me at the moment
<sbalneav> Have you got stable internet?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes, for the last two weeks now :)
<highvoltage> and it seems permanently now
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm quite delighted, after going nearly 13 months without any good internet at home
<pips1> guys is the information https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes still relevant/correct for the dapper -> edgy upgrade ?
<sbalneav> If you need somewhere else to host it, let me know.  I'll give you an account on my box.  I host 2 other bots :)
<sbalneav> pips1: let me see
* pips1 quietly welcomes th1a_ 
<pygi> pips1: should be ^_^
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ok great. I'm happy to have her close by, but if (God forbid) I've have to go without Internet again, I'd certainly like to make use of that
<sbalneav> pips1: seems reasonable.
<sbalneav> However, super safe way would be:
<sbalneav> mv /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.old && ltsp-build-client
<sbalneav> highvoltage: is she a supybot?
* sbalneav anthropomorphizes software
<highvoltage> sbalneav: she's a Knab
<pips1> sbalneav: you mean moving it, instead of deleting the old LTSP client root?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: similar to supybot, but perl based
<sbalneav> sure
<sbalneav> why not keep the old one,  juuuuuuust in case :)
<sbalneav> At least untul you know the new one works.
<pips1> right
<sbalneav> then, you can rm -rf /opt/ltsp.ord
<sbalneav> old
<sbalneav> Otherwise, getting back to "where you were" is as simple as a mv ...old to ...
<pips1> ok, I'll do a test first anyway, before I do the upgrade on my demo machine
<highvoltage> sbalneav: have you ever thought about doing an ltsp without a chroot?
<sbalneav> Well, that would basically be the fat-client spec.  
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I've put in some thought to it, and it can be done, but it has some security problems :/
<highvoltage> sbalneav: well, you can do a real thin client too without a chroot
<sbalneav> right, and the chroot is what gets around that.
<highvoltage> ok
<sbalneav> Sure, bindmounting a bunch of stuff around would fix it, but it just gets messy fast.
<highvoltage> yep.
<sbalneav> The chroot keeps it conceptually simpler.
<pips1> have a good time in the remains of the release day everyone! cu
<highvoltage> it's just something I like to think about. with better authentication and newer systems, it might be able to do it securely one day. and if it can bring down maintenance and complication, I think it might be good to implement some day. I'm really just thinking aloud. I should be reading the packaging guide...
<highvoltage> bye pips1! thanks for everything!
<pips1> thanks to you!
<pips1> you guys rock :)
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma sbalneav
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: sbalneav has karma of 1
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 1
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: ogra++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 2
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: highvoltage++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: pygi++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: nixternal++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: cbx33++
<pygi> sbalneav: it's ignoring me :)
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma pygi
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: pygi has karma of 2
<sbalneav> Nope
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<sbalneav> Have I forgotton anyone?
<highvoltage> RichEd
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: RichEd++
<pygi> what are karma points anyway for? :P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: jsgotangco++
<sbalneav> Tells you who's winning :)
<highvoltage> pygi: they make you become something better in your next life :)
<nixternal> i love bots
<sbalneav> hmm
<pygi> highvoltage: can I become a butterfly, pls, pls, pls ^_^
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: highvoltage+=10
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: Factoid has too many alternatives, I don't know which to append to!
<nixternal> one called me gay yesterday...i never felt so proud
<pygi> nixternal: hehe ^_^
<highvoltage> nixternal: that guy called everyone in every channel gay
<sbalneav> Float like a butterfy, sting like a bee.
<nixternal> well, we are gay, meaning happy now that 6.10 is out ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: well, the UDS is awfully close to San Fransisco too, maybe there was some confusion there
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> dude, that went right over my head until i re read it, and understood the "San Fran" thing
<nixternal> i almost responded with a ???
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I just saw a show the other night about a documentary coming out about people jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge
<LaserJock> very sad
<nixternal> ya i seen that too
<nixternal> on 20/20
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> that was nuts to see people just jump like it was nothing
<nixternal> im so affraid of heights i would die before i even attempted to jump
<LaserJock> and I've been under the bridge on a boat before too
<nixternal> ya me too
<nixternal> on the USS Nimitz as a matter of fact
<LaserJock> cool
<nixternal> I went out for a DeCom Cruise on it
<LaserJock> oh that would be interesting
<nixternal> boring, but it was fun
<nixternal> got to watch Harriers land at sea
<nixternal> i worked on Destroyers, with the MK45 gun mounts..so i was into blowing stuff up
<nixternal> mostly just old ships and wooden barrels
<nixternal> and by accident a French Destroyer, but that wasn't me, that was the Marines on that goof
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> how big is a MK45 ?
<nixternal> 5" radius shell
<nixternal> dia rather
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a little more then you're average gun ;-)
<LaserJock>  *your
<nixternal> hehe, 54 caliber
<nixternal> 270" barrel
<edubuntugirl> test
<nixternal> you failed
<edubuntugirl> sorry...
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: it'll be ok
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: *blink*
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: no really, everything is ok :-)
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: sure thing
<nixternal> hehe
<sbalneav> This conversation sounds scarily like conversations I had with women in high school :)
<nixternal> talking about guns sbalneav? ;)
<highvoltage> ok, edubuntugirl is going one last time (sorry, doing some adjustments)
<nixternal> what is her purpose?
<nixternal> haha, what is her goal in life?
<highvoltage> hmmm... that's not right
<nixternal> lol
* highvoltage wonders why that happens
<LaserJock> finally ;-)
<edubuntugirl> I'll still have to leave and come back again when Nalioth is done setting up my cloak :-/
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: you need a cloak?
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: sorry...
<LaserJock> never mind edubuntugirl 
<highvoltage> bots on freenoad are supposed to have cloaks showing that they are
<highvoltage> wow. strange typo.
<nixternal> lol
* mode/#edubuntu [+o edubuntugirl]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> wow, she's an op even
<highvoltage> I think I made a terrible mistake with the linking
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> she's now you
<LaserJock> you've become one
<highvoltage> ok, she's unlinked...
* highvoltage tests
<highvoltage> shew
<frandavid100> hi guys
<highvoltage> hey frandavid100 
<edubuntugirl> this is the last time I do this, I promise
<frandavid100> anyone interested in the cafe modification of the student control panel?
<sbalneav> Yep
<sbalneav> Lots of people want it.
<frandavid100> I just filed a spec, you might want to take a look
<frandavid100> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/cafebuntu
<frandavid100> please add anything you consider useful
<frandavid100> gotta leave for a while, see you later!
<Burgwork> sbalneav: I suggested to frandavid100 in -devel that he make that spec informational, a break out the various pieces into implementation specs
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> frandavid100: You going to be at mountainview?
<floydwilde> Is there a way to setup a template user account err something 
<sbalneav> Define "template user account"?  Are you wanting some default files in the home dir?  Or are you looking for default settings for desktops?
<sbalneav> If it's the former, drop goodies in /etc/skel (for skeleton, ooooh, scary)
<sbalneav> and if it's the latter, you'll be wanting Sabayon.
<floydwilde> default settings for desktops, that one
<frandavid100> hi again guys
<frandavid100> sorry sbalneav, I don't know what MTV is, I'll have to check it out
<floydwilde> I want firefox to have the same bookmarks for every account?
<Burgwork> sbalneav: /etc/skel should be managed by sabayon
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> that's always a toughie.
<floydwilde> Also the same desktop would be nice
<Burgwork> frandavid100: mtv is the next ubuntu development summit in mountainview
<Burgwork> floydwilde: for that, you need sabayon
<Burgwork> except it does do firefox
<Burgwork> why not use ephy?
<nixternal> floydwilde is alive!   i shall see you sunday bud!
<sbalneav> how we handle that is with a default homepage, that has all the links we want on it.
<sbalneav> and as for the default desktop, Sabayon will do what you want.
<floydwilde> ehh there are only about 7, 8, or 10 or something accounts 
<floydwilde> Hi nixternal!
<floydwilde> oh is Sabayon an app?  
<sbalneav> Yes it is.
<Burgwork> yes, an app to create and modify stuff
<floydwilde> ok im googling
<Burgwork> http://www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon/
<Burgwork> save you time
<floydwilde> ohh looping bookmarks sounds fun
<nixternal> Sabayon is a Linux distro based off of Kubuntu I thought, just with all the pretty eye candy installed ;)
<Burgwork> nixternal: actually sabayon the distro is newer than sabayon the product
<Burgwork> not to mention it is based of Gentoo
<nixternal> ok, i knew there was a debian connection somehow with it
<Burgwork> umm
<Burgwork> gentooo is not debian
<Burgwork> there is no debian connection
<nixternal> derr..i just now noticed you said Gentoo ;)
<nixternal> lol
<Burgwork> nixternal: them chicago smog is killin yer brain
<nixternal> is that what that is?  i thought gray sunny days were natural, or maybe i was going color blind
<highvoltage> there's a debian package called gentoo though
<Burgwork> and it is the example for the debian packaging guide
<Burgwork> just to make things very confused
* highvoltage > /dev/bed
<highvoltage> Burgwork: indeed :)
<stgraber> yes, the debian package called gentoo is a file manager
<highvoltage> and it is :)
<floydwilde> is sabayon already installed or do i need to get it?
<sbalneav> You'll need to install it.
<sbalneav> Add the universe repositories in Software Sources under Administration, then use Synaptic to install Sabayon.
<floydwilde> I just apt-get'ed it
<floydwilde> it's a python app? 
<Burgwork> yep
<floydwilde> cool
#edubuntu 2006-10-27
* jsgotangco wakes up
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<sbalneav> How's it goin?
<sbalneav> Hey! We get to handle dinner ourselves down in MV!
<sbalneav> You know what that means!
<Burgwork> brazillian?
<BonBonTheJon_> ping nixternal
<sbalneav> "Do what we do, say what we say"
<jsgotangco> good morning
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: hahaha
<jsgotangco> that is so parisian
<LaserJock> sbalneav: heck yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, you about?
<dibblego> what's the difference between the live CD and the install CD? is it just that the live CD has the added bonus of allowing you to boot and use it?
<crimsun> that's one feature.
<crimsun> the install (alternate, text-based) image tends to be "more" fail-safe in my experience.
<dibblego> so in theory, the live CD is everything the install CD is?
<dibblego> but perhaps with a couple of unforeseen problems uin your experience
<crimsun> not quite "everything," no
<dibblego> what isn't it?
<crimsun> the desktop/live cd installer doesn't permit you to install just the minimum required packages
<dibblego> ah ok thanks
<crimsun> I recommend trying the desktop/live cd first
<dibblego> I have edubuntu 6.06 at home
<dibblego> my 5 year old loves it
<dibblego> figure I should get 6.10 - setting it up for my 3 year old
<nixternal> BonBonTheJon_: pong
<BonBonTheJon_> nixternal: did you get my pastebin the other day
<nixternal> what was it?
<nixternal> i get about 100 pastebins a day
<BonBonTheJon_> nixternal: Concepts:Networks and Networking for the handbook
<nixternal> don't think i seen that one
<nixternal> are you done with it?
<BonBonTheJon_> nixternal: for the most part, wanted to know if you could suggest anything
<nixternal> you can email it to me if you would like...i need to work on a couple of presentations here before i crash for the evening
<BonBonTheJon_> nixternal: ok
<nixternal> nixternal@ubuntu.com
<Meshezabeel> where do I find the updates that are new to 6.10 that weren't in 6.06?
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think there is a specific list of all the changes
<LaserJock> distrowatch might have the main stuff
<Burgundavia> the marketing team didn't do a changed page
<Burgundavia> we need one
<Meshezabeel> k thanks
<Meshezabeel> anyone know how to run an installer using sudo in gdm (rather than in terminal)?
<bimberi> Meshezabeel: in gdm? the login screen?
<Meshezabeel> sorry, I mean once logged in the gui
<bimberi> Meshezabeel: ah, Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal
<Meshezabeel> sorry, didn't explain myself well, I want to be able to install in the gui, without using the terminal/console (text screen)
<jsgmobile> Use synaptic
<Meshezabeel> I know in the terminal you can use the sudo command, but what about just in the gui environment
<Meshezabeel> synaptic might not have all installers available
<jsgmobile> Use synaptic or g-a-i
<jsgmobile> What are you unstalling anyway
<jsgmobile> And what do you mean by installer
<Meshezabeel> like a flash plugin installer for firefox
<jsgmobile> You can grab that on synaptic
<jsgmobile> Flashplugin-nonfree or something
<Meshezabeel> ok, tx
<jsgmobile> It basically grabs flash from adobe so its pretty much the same software when you install it from a tgz
<Meshezabeel> ah ok
* bimberi glares at xchat-gnome crashes on edgy
<jsgmobile> Ouch
<jsgmobile> Thats why i just use irssi
<bimberi> yes, i might have to switch :)
<bimberi> you're mobile!
<Meshezabeel> better than gaim?
<jsgmobile> Heheeh im in my phone atm
<bimberi> Meshezabeel: i prefer xchat(-gnome) as a gui client to gaim.  irssi is text based - and excellent
<bimberi> jsgmobile: ah - showoff ;p
<jsgmobile> xchat-gnome has good integration with the desktop though thats why some like it
<bimberi> yes, it clicking links works very well and it also offers reverse searching
<RichEd> hello
<lotusleaf> hello
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> does willvdl still work for canonical? has he gone back the foundation
<Burgundavia> ?
<willvdl> Burgundavia, still here :)
<Burgundavia> willvdl: ah, didn't see your nick
<RichEd> Burgundavia: willvdl is on a 12 month contract for canonical ... Technical representative for Canoncial in the HP Consortium for on the NEPAD eSchools Project for Africa & Africa new business
<Burgundavia> right
<jsgotangco> yo!
* jsgotangco prepares to upgrae his machines
<jsgmobile> Ahhh i didnt notice it but my hostname is now edubuntu at last
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> does anyone have the old blackboard background we had in edgy
<jsgotangco> please let me have it my eyes are burning already with this clash in contrast in the default background
<jsgotangco> huh? why does gcompris create a 5.4MB crash report
<stgraber> good morning
<stgraber> I was wondering if someone wrote a spec for the student-control-panel to include a vnc client/server infrastructure like the one we can found in some software like NetOP School or Mastereye ?
<stgraber> For exemple, being able to watch all screens of a classroom, make all the screens show your own screen (demo mode)
<stgraber> Lock the screens, ...
<stgraber> It's something which would be really appreciated here in Switzerland (the only thing really missing between Linux and Windows desktops)
<Kamping_Kaiser> stgraber, i was thinking about that vnc like thing thismorning actually
<Kamping_Kaiser> i agree - would be sweet to have (esp. for desktop support)
<stgraber> I'll check if there is a spec for UDS MTV, if not, I will try to write one
<Kamping_Kaiser> stgraber, link me if you find one /write one
* Kamping_Kaiser heads out for dinner atm
<Kamping_Kaiser> catch you later mate :)
<stgraber> c u
<stgraber> Kamping_Kaiser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
<stgraber> for the spec : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpe
<stgraber> for the spec : https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/student-control-panel-upgrade
<stgraber> better :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> stgraber, thanks :) *flys out door*
<pips1> hi
<stgraber> hi
* RichEd is off to German Embassy
<cbx33> Goooooooooood Morning all
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<cbx33> good luck
<RichEd> gun tag herr cbx33
<RichEd> auw weidersein
<RichEd> *auf
<cbx33> heh
<pips1> hey cbx33, congrats for edgy to you too :)
<cbx33> congrats pips1 and everyone
<Dheeraj_k>  Kids say "Thank you (Ed)Ubuntu Team" http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39611
<cliebow> stgraber: in classic ltsp ting over of classroom desktops is goable with my old Teach2.py..or with robarks new ftltk teachertool
<lguerra> hi all
<ulinskie> hi lguerra
* pips1 has just kicked off a server dist-upgrade test
<bddebian> Howdy
<pips1> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello pips1
<ulinskie> hi pips1 and bddebian
<bddebian> Hello ulinskie
<pips1> hi ulinskie
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<sbalneav> What's the "proper" way to replace Evolution with Thunderbird.
<sbalneav> I'm going all ubuntu, and replacing icewm with gnome.
<sbalneav> But, we use Tbird for mail
<sbalneav> and I don't want to have to go to 160+ users prefs and switch them from evo to tbird.
<sbalneav> What's the "proper" way to do it.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: apt-get remove evolution ; apt-get install thunderbird?
<ogra> yeah, just install TB
<ogra> it should automatically become the default mailer
<sbalneav> I can remove evo without it wanting to remove ubuntu-desktop? :)
<ogra> but note that cool stuff like the appointment calendar only works with evo
<ogra> not sure
<sbalneav> Thats fine, we've got a web-based appointment calendar we use.
<ogra> we switched a lot of packages to be recommends instead of dependencies
<ogra> but i'm not sure evo is in that list
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I'll play around
<ogra> well, you could use the web based calendar with evo ;)
<sbalneav> how's post-release day?
<ogra> relaxed
<sbalneav> no major headaches?
<ogra> i'm sitting on my specs and think about them ... every hour i go to the garage for 20 min and do something on the car .... 
<ogra> no
<ogra> not at all :)
<sbalneav> \o/ for us!
<ogra> i have a handfull of updates but dont want to bother with them now ...
<pips1> good to hear this :-)
<ogra> i.e. the firefox homepage title is broken 
<ogra> things like that
<ogra> nothing spectacular
<sbalneav> I just discovered the gnome deskbar
* highvoltage has a big headache
<sbalneav> and it is THE AWESOME
* ogra never tried deskbar
<highvoltage> sbalneav: FTW!
<highvoltage> :)
<pips1> ogra: If i install a second NIC after a dist-upgrade from dapper -> edgy, how will i get the system reconfigured to use that second NIC, rather than just the one?
<sbalneav> A quick and dirty edit of /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<pips1> can I run dpkg-reconfigure something ?
<ogra> in /etc/netwrok7interfaces 
<sbalneav> Or, use the gui configurator.
<pips1> gui configurator, huh, what?
<pips1> you are pulling my leg
<sbalneav> For the network card
<ogra> System->Administration->Network 
<sbalneav> administration->network
<sbalneav> ogra types faster
<ogra> heh, i just started earlier :)
<pips1> you were guessing my next question.. :-P
<pips1> ok, thanks fellas
<sbalneav> ogra: You know, it would be pretty flipping easy to write a quick-n-dirty script or interface that you just say which interface is the ltsp one, and it auto-gens the dhcpd.conf file :)
<ogra> sbalneav, yes, but the dhcpd.conf file is a conffile
<ogra> it will give you questions on upgrades we want to avoid
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> debian-policy thingy
<ogra> additionally its a file an admin can edit ... they would get angry with you if you rewrite their custom setup
<sbalneav> Yes, true
<ogra> what we can (and likely will) do is that the installer part will rewrite it if the first interface already owns 192.168.0.X
<sbalneav> One of the biggest headaches we have in #ltsp is, as you know, stepping people through dhcpd.conf goofups though.
<ogra> durin a fresh install thats possible ...
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> I just had a brain wave
<sbalneav> There's a rom-o-matic, right?  What about a dhcpd.conf-o-matic.  Answer some simple questions, plug in a few values on a web form, and is displays a dhcpd.conf file that you can copy and paste!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: wow, that's a cool idea :)
<ogra> thats what ltsp-manager should do at some point 
<ogra> in fact the basic dhcp handling is in place there
<ogra> the package in universe currently has a bug that prevents it from starting ... 
<sbalneav> Hmm, I looked at the ltsp-manager a while ago.
<sbalneav> I should pick it up again.
<ogra> yeah, test out the dhcpd stuff
<sbalneav> ok
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it causes our helpdesk pain too... especially when someone left out a ; or put in one too many or little curly braces
<ogra> you need to change one line in the /usr/bin/ltsp-manager script to make it start
<sbalneav> We probably spend 50% of our time in #ltsp on dhcpd and tftp related questions.
<ogra> change: self.wTree=gtk.glade.XML ("./ltsp-manager.glade")  -> self.wTree=gtk.glade.XML ("/usr/share/ltsp-manager/ltsp-manager.glade")
<ogra> well, for a running setup you only need a subnet declartation, filename and root-path set
<ogra> at the point where you want to start complicated setups that need more you should really understand the file content
<sbalneav> gksu ltsp-manager?
<ogra> gksudo
<ogra> or just sudo
<sbalneav> While we're down in SF, you gotta show me how this glade+python stuff works
<ogra> oki :)
<ogra> eric clearly expressed interest in ltsp-manager development for MV btw
<sbalneav> BTW, you and I will be rooming together for the ltsp part.  I don't mind a smoking room, so we'll get that.
<stgraber> ogra: I just read this : https://wiki.edubuntu.org/StudentControlPanelCompletion, everything I was looking for is in the list except a small thing, here the software used by the teachers (NetOP school or Mastereye) also has a chat system you can use to talk with a specific student or a list of them (and they can't close the chat window). There is also a possibility to request help from the teacher by clicking on a tryicon.
<stgraber> uhm, a bit too long :)
<ogra> well, we can implement such stuff indeed :)
<pips1> stgraber: why don't you add that as a comment on the wiki page of the spec?
<ogra> right
<ogra> but not at StudentControlPanelCompletion
<ogra> that was the edgy spec, there is a new one somewhere
<jsgotangco> hmm i just want to ask something
<jsgotangco> why is scp installed on a desktop install
<jsgotangco> ;)
<pips1> ha
<ogra> jsgotangco, bug :/
* jsgotangco wished we had the old green wallpaper even if its not default
<ogra> its in the wrong seed ... it will move to -server in feisty ...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> jsgotangco, i totally dont acceptr any complaint about the wallpaper, we had it in for two months before release ... nobody complained until yesterday ...
<ogra> suddely all people seem to find it too bright ...
<jsgotangco> well sorry about not complaining earlier...but yeah its too bright
<jsgotangco> it doesn't fit to the theme either
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> why that ? 
<ogra> red and yellow dont fit ? 
<jsgotangco> i mean the contrast is too much to appreciate
<jsgotangco> on my side though
<pips1> Fetching file 616 of 1009 at 51.6 k/s
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: Just do what I do: I bought a subscription to digitalblasphemy.com.  TONS of great wallpapers there.
<jsgotangco> lol
<pips1> *click*
<sbalneav> Plus, I have about 4 gigs of saved wallpapers over the years, and I've written a python+gtk walllpaper switcher that changes my gnome wallpaper every half hour.
<pips1> LOL
<sbalneav> I can go for DAYS without a repeat :)
<sbalneav> That's a feature that gnome needs, imho: a built in wallpaper cycler.
<pips1> they are all cgi..!
<pips1> I meant 3d renderings
<pips1> pretty amazing stuff
<nixternal> moins
* pips1 goes back to work
<pips1> hey nixternal sbalneav, any thoughts on what to do with the ltsp doc bits?
<nixternal> rm -rf?
<nixternal> ;)
<pips1> heh
<sbalneav> What, they're that bad?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> how can they be bad? they are the only thing in the handbook pretty much ;)
<nixternal> sbalneav: if i could suggest, run the validate script in the root directory when you make changes...i fixed the validations changes, which weren't all that difficult truthfully
<pips1> do they live in the svn repo only? or are the available online somewhere (as html)?
<nixternal> there was a long <listitem>blah</listitem> list you had
<nixternal> should be    <listitem><para>blah</para></listitem>
<nixternal> other than that, your structure is good
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<nixternal> sh validate edubuntu/handbook/C/handbook.xml
<nixternal> you run the validate.sh script against the handbook.xml and that will tell you the errors you have...it is retardedly difficult because the way I structured the handbook.xml file...it makes it look like the handbook.xml is the issue
<nixternal> i need to figure out a good way to fix that
<sbalneav> I could, though, just run it against a file I changed?
<nixternal> nope, the validate script works against the main file, which in this case is the handbook.xml file..that validates the entire directory
<nixternal> because i used the xml validation against the file itself, and it said it was perfect, there was no issues..which in all reality there wasn't...the validate.sh validates the docbook dtd and not just the xml
<sbalneav> ah, that was my problem then.
<sbalneav> I WAS running it against files when I changed them, and it was oK
<sbalneav> so foo on me.
<nixternal> hehe
<sbalneav> brb
<jsgotangco> we'll make a more complex script for feisty
<jsgotangco> nixternal: the thing is that validation script hasn't evolved much after some of us became inactive for a while
<nixternal> no it hasn't, but it is the "industry" way of doing it though..that script is nothing but a common command for xml validation
<nixternal> i shouldn't say the "industry" way
<nixternal> but the "common" way
<jsgotangco> its not
<jsgotangco> well not really
<jsgotangco> its our custom script
<jsgotangco> ;)
<nixternal> there are much more detailed scripts
<nixternal> xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid $1
<nixternal> thats all the script is
<jsgotangco> there no need much for another one because our xml is quite limited with what yelp can offer in the gnome side of things
<jsgotangco> i dunno about khelpcenter
<nixternal> i was wondering about that
<nixternal> khelpcenter == html
<jsgotangco> kde has its own mad stylesheets
<nixternal> yes, and they will become "KUbuntu" stylesheet for Feisty
<nixternal> we are going to redesign them
<sbalneav> Writing deskbar plugins in python == fun
<ogra> sbalneav, for localapps
<ogra> we should have a transparency layer for the dektop
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> That's gonna get REAL ugly REAL fast :(
<ogra> we should talk to LaserJock about the menu stuff
<ogra> and have an override file for defined apps that run local  ... so we can provide .dewsktop files that override the ones that start the apps on the server
<ogra> we'll need something like a config file or even an lts.conf parameter that defines which apps are local apps and which are run on the server
<sbalneav> right.
<highvoltage> ogra: congratulations. even Mr CatherineCapers seem quite pleased with edgy
<pips1> highvoltage: ?
<highvoltage> pips1: tell you later, got to run...
<pips1> cu
<sbalneav> Does anyone know of a nice, simple, pastebin software that I can host?  The fellow who hosted the ltsp pastebin has gone dark.
<Rondom> sbalneav: pastebin.com
<Burgwork> sbalneav: just use pastebin.ca
<Burgwork> or .nl
<Rondom> http://rafb.net/paste
<bronze> pastebin.ca is good.
<sbalneav> Can't see the "download" link for either one of those.
<sbalneav> Those are just hosted sites, and they don't post a link back into the irc channel.
<sbalneav> I'd like actual software, that I can host.
<Rondom> sbalneav: pastebin.com
<PeBe> have some troubles booting my thin clients after upgrading to 6.10
<PeBe> got this message on my clients: PXE-T01: File Not Found
<PeBe> any suggestions?
<sbalneav> Rondom: I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing on that site where he's got the source for download?
<Rondom> sbalneav: there is
<sbalneav> PeBe: You might need to do an ltsp-update-kernels
<PeBe> tnx, I'll try that, and see what'll happen 
<Rondom> sbalneav: http://pastebin.com/pastebin.tar.gz
<sbalneav> Rondom: Thanks
<PeBe> do I need a reboot/restart after ltsp-update-kernels?
<sbalneav> Shouldn't need to 
<PeBe> it's still the same problem..
<sbalneav> ok
<PeBe> when I upgraded i said yes to replace the conf-files 
<sbalneav> can you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<PeBe> since I've used a pretty much standard installation the first when installing 6.06
<PeBe> guess maybe the problem could be there..
<sbalneav> Have you pasted the dhcpd.conf file?
<PeBe> it was also replaced
<PeBe> but the clients to get at ip-adress
<PeBe> authoritative;
<PeBe> subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<PeBe>   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
<PeBe>   option domain-name "example.com";
<PeBe>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;
<PeBe>   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;
<PeBe>   option routers 192.168.0.1;
<PeBe>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<PeBe>   if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
<PeBe>     filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<PeBe>   }
<PeBe>   else{
<PeBe>     filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
<PeBe>   }
<PeBe>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<PeBe> }
<sbalneav> You didn't read the pastebin part
<sbalneav> at anry rate.
<sbalneav> what's in /var/lib/tftpboot?
<PeBe> sorry - didn't see your pastebin comment
<PeBe> it's a file there called "pxelinux.0" but says it's modified sunday, so seems that it has not been updated
<PeBe> when I follow the edubuntu cookbook: "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386" and run "apt-get update" it failes to download the index files
<PeBe> guess this will mean that i cannot run "ltsp-update-kernels" properly either
<sbalneav> I'd say your best bet at this point is to rebuild the chroot
<sbalneav> mv /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.old
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client
<sbalneav> that should clean it up.
<PeBe> I'll try that
<PeBe> tnx - hope it'll work :)
<sbalneav> It should, that will rebuild the chroot from scratch, which I know works.
<PeBe> running the commands now..
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> how are we all
<sbalneav> We are ok
<sbalneav> We are legion
<cbx33> heheh
<cberl1> Hi folks.  Just finished an upgrade of a test box to Edgy -- so far, looks quite nice.  A couple things seem to have broken, though.  DHCP changed, temporarily disabling TFTP boot -- fixed that easy enough by changing the file option to point to where the pxelinux.0 file actually resides.  Updating the LTSP-client chroot, however, keeps getting stuck trying to install the newer kernel.  I get the message:  Failed to find suitable ramdisk generation t
<cberl1> Any assistance with this, short of blowing away the old chroot and rebuilding?
<sbalneav> cberl1: That's probably the best approach
<cberl1> sbalneav: Okay.  I was guessing as much, but for some reason my connection to any server has been really slow the past couple of days, so that's a fairly "painful" operation.  But I will do what I need -- it's only a test box for now.  I'd like to see the effects before I migrate my production box.
<PeBe> hi folks
<PeBe> had some trouble after upgrading to 6.10
<pygi> shoot ^_^
<PeBe> now the clients will finally boot from PXE again, but I get a "permission denied" when they try to mount to /opt/ltsp/i386 on the server
<PeBe> so the whole mounting fail and the clients stops 
<PeBe> any suggestions?
<pygi> dunno, chmod to right permissions? :)
<PeBe> and what should that permission be?
<PeBe> I didn't need to do anything with this before I ran into the trouble after upgrading
<pygi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<Kamping_Kaiser> havec you checked nfs is running?
<PeBe> how do I do that?
<Kamping_Kaiser> open a terminal, and type 'ps aux |grep nfs'
<PeBe> nsfd is running
<Kamping_Kaiser> well thats what should be
<Kamping_Kaiser> and check tftp is tehre ps aux |grep ftp
* Kamping_Kaiser has to go now. bbl
<Kamping_Kaiser> (if you need to start the services sudo /etc/init.d/servicename restart)
<PeBe> tnx, will try that
#edubuntu 2006-10-28
<pips1> During upgrade, I'm asked if I want to replace conf file /etc/login.defs ... I don't remember ever touching that file, so I suppose I should choose to have it replaced, right?
* pips1 chooses replace
<pips1> Hmm, now I'm asked about the /etc/exports file
* pips1 tried compare the two versions
* pips1 finds that the debconf window freezes
<pips1> :-/
<pips1> now debconf is stuck
<pips1> ... in configuring nfs-kernel-server
<slonbg> hi. i have 6.06 edubuntu. can i upgrade to 6.10 with update-manager -c, as per ubuntu docs, or I have to do something else. i tried with update-manager, but it tried remove a lot of packages, one of which was edubuntu-server, so i canceled it
<LaserJock> slonbg: are you using an LTSP setup?
<slonbg> i used the livecd install
<slonbg> when i installed edubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> I think update-manager -c should work
<slonbg> ah, and update-manager wants to remove schooltools package as well.
<LaserJock> if you have the LTSP server installed there are a couple extra steps
<slonbg> LaserJock: how do I check, it was months ago
<LaserJock> that's interesting, I've done it twice without any problems
<LaserJock> dpkg -l | grep ltsp
<slonbg> LaserJock: I do not think this is a problem, but as far as I see what it tries to do, it was suspissios: remove edubuntu-server and schooltools, and a bunch of python packages, and then installs ubuntu-desktop. Thats why I stopped, as I do not want to mess my kid's machine
<slonbg> hmmm, ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone are installed
<slonbg> strange why i did it :)
<LaserJock> hmm, what does dpkg -l | grep "-desktop "
<LaserJock> give
<LaserJock> slonbg: if you aren't using LTSP I don't think it's a problem
<slonbg> i'm sure i did go with the livecd install for 6.06 w/o touching the defaults
<slonbg> edubuntu-desktop is installed, no ubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> that's weird
<LaserJock> it acts like it wants to turn it into an Ubuntu install rather then upgrade Edubuntu
<slonbg> and edubuntu-server is installed
<slonbg> but the update-manager wants to remove only edubuntu-server, not -desktop
<pips1> I just finished my server dist-upgrade test, and although I had some minor issues, it seems to have worked
<slonbg> ok, maybe i'll give it a shot, and then remove ubuntu-desktop and install edubuntu desktop. thanks
<pips1> cu folks, I'm off to bed
<slonbg> cu, and thanks again
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_News&set_id=1&click_id=&art_id=iol1161945879455G642
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<Yagisan> anyone here know a little bit about SDL ?
<Yagisan> I've a question about SDL_CreateThread if anyone is clued up.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i doubt here is the right place to ask tbh
<Yagisan> I know, but I know a fair few people here, and its indirectly related to my ubuntu work, so I thought I'd give it a shot
<cliebow__> lo all: anyone else have a stall in dist-upgrade at xcore?
<Kamping_Kaiser> do you get a specific error?
<cliebow__> had to make a simlink after moving /ur/X11R6/bin
<cliebow__> and use -f 
<ukubuntu> Just for a site admin to note, on the FAQ page it says "The first Enterprise release is Edubuntu 6.06, due for launch in June."
<ukubuntu> Site last editted admin  Mon, 2006  03  13 16:54
<ukubuntu> in fact, perhaps the whole page could be revamped
<ukubuntu> http://www.edubuntu.org/FAQ
<bddebian> Howdy
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday :) bddebian , ukubuntu 
<ukubuntu> Hi Kaiser
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ukubuntu, is it part of the wiki? or a seperate page?
<ukubuntu>  it is the FAQ page linked to from the main home page http://www.edubuntu.org/FAQ
<Kamping_Kaiser> its nota wiki page :|
<ukubuntu> I guess it is seperate
<ukubuntu> Does Canonical make those pages?
* Kamping_Kaiser shrug
<ukubuntu> me too 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra might know, but hes not aorund it seems.
<ukubuntu> OK, no worries, it could be brought up on Wednesday :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all
<desi> How do I fix this Please help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28890/
<highvoltage> desi: do you have wxwindows installed?
<highvoltage> desi: this might be a question better answered on #ubuntu
<desi> I am trying
<desi> I am running this on linux do I need wxwindows?
<highvoltage> yes, I believe so
<highvoltage> I'm not too familiar with the wxwindows packaging
<highvoltage> you might have some success by installing the wxtools package
<LaserJock> highvoltage: what is he doing?
<LaserJock> sorry didn't see the paste
<LaserJock> desi: installing python-wxgtk2.6 should work
<desi> let me try
<desi> thanks
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
<LaserJock> heh
<desi> LaserJock: that is already installed :(
<LaserJock> desi: ok, gimme a sec
<LaserJock> desi: what version of Edubuntu? 6.06?
<desi> ya
<LaserJock> I can do: from wxPython import wx on my edgy machine no problem
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> desi: what are you working on specifically?
<LaserJock> how did you install gnumed?
<LaserJock> desi: I think the problem is that gnumed is looking for python 2.3
<LaserJock> desi: whereas wxpython is built for python 2.4 on 6.06
<desi> I see
<desi> so It won't work
<LaserJock> desi: yeah, it would work in Edgy but not dapper
<desi> I can upgrade to edgy thats not a problem
<desi> but are u sure
<LaserJock> pretty sure
<desi> ok
<desi> will try soon and let you know
<LaserJock> but hang on a sec
<desi> ok
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> I was looking to see if we had a python2.3 version of wxpython in dapper
<LaserJock> but it's strictly python 2.4 so you would have to rebuild wxpython (which you don't want to do)
<PurpleBlue> Hello, I was wondering if you can get Wine to run on 64 bit Edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> PurpleBlue: wine might run, but iffy
<Burgundavia> what do you need it for?
<PurpleBlue> Umm, I am trying to make the complete switch from Windows to Linux.  I have Eduntu AMD 64 bit OS installed.  But There are a few applications that I would like to still use.  For example.   XBC,  www.xbconnect.com    Pretty much allows you to play your xbox online for free.
<Burgundavia> 64 bit is fun even you don't consider wine
<Burgundavia> you need 32 bit wine to run on your 64 bit linux, to run the 32 bit program
<Burgundavia> which means you 32 bit libraries
<Burgundavia> which is ahrd
<stgraber> You will have a lot of problem if you use a 64bit Ubuntu (like flash and others proprietary softwares)
<PurpleBlue> I read this.  http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOn64bit   But console stuff lil confusin.
<stgraber> my opinion is that 64 bits is useful for servers, not really for desktop (or not yet)
<PurpleBlue> So I wasted money on hardware that software does not take advantage of?
<PurpleBlue> I noticed first day, no flash :(
<PurpleBlue> Anyone you guys run Wine?
<stgraber> 64 bits doesn't do any difference in a lot of case, only some specifical application are faster
<stgraber> if you compare a 32 bits Ubuntu and a 64 bits Ubuntu on the same hardware and if you don't do some scientifical calculations (type of application that use the 64 bits), you will not see any difference
<PurpleBlue> I read this fromt the WIKI, and when I select Y to confrim YES.  IT aborts.     sudo apt-get install gcc flex bison libc6-i386 libc6-dev-i386
<PurpleBlue> After unpacking 21.5MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n] ? y Abort.
<stgraber> and if you simply press the enter key ?
<stgraber> (it shouldn't be case sensitive, but it's possible)
<PurpleBlue> same result   "abort"  enter , Y, or y 
<PurpleBlue> Is FC6 a better OS?
<PurpleBlue> "In order to run Wine on a distributions like Fedora you can 'just' install Wine and then it should work. Debian is more problematic as the wine configure script can't properly detect the 32-bit libraries."
<stgraber> not from my pow, I hate RPM :)
<stgraber> Yes, fedora has a compatibility layer for 64 bits, in fact it has the core library (libc6) in both 32 and 64 bits version
<stgraber> and then launch your softwares in 32 bits mod on a 64 bits system (so your 64 bits hardware is not more used than with a 32 bits distro)
<stgraber> It's also possible to do that with Ubuntu and Debian (I did that on a 64 bits dedicated server)
<stgraber> for your apt-get install problem, do you have a localized system ?
<stgraber> maybe the sentence isn't localized but the answer yes
<PurpleBlue> So when you use FC6, even with its layer or 64bit, there is no performance benefit? 
<stgraber> or maybe try this : sudo aptitude install gcc flex bison libc6-i386 libc6-dev-i386
<Burgundavia> PurpleBlue: 64bit over 32 is almost nothing
<Burgundavia> unless you are doing serious number crunching or have a big server
<PurpleBlue> For real.  Dang.  I was even thinking about getting the new AM2 6000+ x2 chip about to roll out here in a few days
<PurpleBlue> :'(
<Burgundavia> if you really want to play with fun stuff, get an intel core due
<Burgundavia> duo, rather
<PurpleBlue> to loyal to AMD
<PurpleBlue> So what is the best Linux distro?
<Burgundavia> bizarre place to ask that
<Burgundavia> intel is a far better friend of Linux than AMD
<PurpleBlue> I just want to most compatible, best performane OS, best EYE candy, most application package.    Easy to install.
<PurpleBlue> Intell chips were all junk until there core 2 duo chips
<Burgundavia> intel has the only modern graphic cards fully supported with open source drivers
<PurpleBlue> AMD is no open source?
<Burgundavia> amd doesn't make video cards, at least not until it completely swallows ATI
<PurpleBlue> isnt intell = M$ ?
<Burgundavia> no
<bent> Well, intel is either the company, or inside information. Dictonary definition, though. 
<Burgundavia> bent: we are talking about the companyh
<bent> M'kay. Joining in the middle of something is not fun.
<PurpleBlue> Now what flav or Unbunt you guys use?  Kubuntu?   Edubuntu?  Ubuntu?
<bent> I use ubuntu, with the packages for edubuntu... for personal education.
<PurpleBlue> is Edubuntu gnome desktop?
<Burgundavia> yes
<PurpleBlue> So the difference between Ubuntu and Edubuntu is that Edubuntu so has educational applications pre loaded?
<Burgundavia> yes
<bent> And, the thin client server... which I forget the name for... in the server one.
<PurpleBlue> gnome > KDE?  
<bent> Depends on your view.
<PurpleBlue> What about Eye Candy?
<bent> Eye candy: Well, without 3D things, Gnome.
<bent> 3d? Both will do.
<PurpleBlue> Can you do awesome 3D stuff?
<bent> Can I? Er... sometimes. 
<bent> Depends on the computer. And the kind of video card.
<bent> But, for the closest comparision I can find, visual wise is:
<bent> http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.5/03-kicker.png --KDE.
<bent> And... er... finding a gnome one.
<bent> Well, there is no great GNOME one... so, I'll go whip one up.
<bent> Note: This is my desktop, and... er... it's messy.
<bent> http://static.flickr.com/103/281591940_f67f1e2cab_o.png
<bent> PurpleBlue, they are somewhat similar, but also different. GNOME is about simplicity, and KDE is about tweaking.
<bent> Also, see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kdegnome
<sbalneav> Afternoon all!
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: seen ogra?
<edubuntugirl> ogra was last seen on #edubuntu 1 day, 4 hours, 57 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: we'll need something like a config file or even an lts.conf parameter that defines which apps are local apps and which are run on the server [Fri Oct 27 18:02:05 2006] 
<sbalneav> heh, my last conversation with him.
<LaserJock> that's funny
<Burgundavia> anybody thinking about replacing ldm with gdm in feisty?
<LaserJock> I think it's been tossed around before
<Burgundavia> is there a doc that lays out the needed gdm bits?
<LaserJock> not that I know of, but ogra knows
<Burgundavia> ogra: ping
<LaserJock> I think I remember some conversation about it in Paris
<LaserJock> there was a reason to keep ldm but that it might change in the futur
<LaserJock> sbalneav: do you remember?
<Burgundavia> the only issue I can remember is that of ssh
<LaserJock> yeah, I do think that was the one
<Burgundavia> thing is, it is crack to maintain an entire login manager, just for one thing
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: well, if you need that feature it is, plus the lightness
<Burgundavia> but in the long term, it is a problem
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody disputes that I don't think
<Burgundavia> does not dispute != doing something about it
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: well, somebody would need to hack gdm
<Burgundavia> ye[
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
#edubuntu 2006-10-29
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: Here's the problem: How do you collect a password with gdm securely?  Unless you're going to run it on the client, which requires so much hacking to gdm, that maintaining gdm patches vs maintaining a ldm become a negligible proposition.
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: ah, fun
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: wouldn't the local-apps solve this issue?
<sbalneav> How?
<sbalneav> You'd still have to have a hacked gdm
<Burgundavia> hmm
<sbalneav> It's possible, and it can be raised at MTV again, but I suppose it ultimately comes down to "Maintain a separate program cleanly, versus maintain a modified standard program"
<sbalneav> ldm's fairly simple: it's only a couple of hundred lines of python.  And sdm's even easier.
<sbalneav> gdm's going to require a whole pam infrastructure underneath it.
<sbalneav> Now, we're going to have to solve that anyway for localapps
<sbalneav> so now gdm maybe starts to require a lot less mods, so, we can put it back on the tabel.
<sbalneav> s/tabel/table/
<ball> hello cliebow_
<ball> hello jinty
<cliebow_> ball: Howdy
<ball> hello Fujitsu
<ball> hello Orby
<ball> Oh well, I'm off to wash some dishes.
<sbalneav> ogra: You there?
<eugeneai> How to install edubuntu without CDROM?
<eugeneai> But I can use an hd partition. Bios does not support CD-ROM USB flash drives
<sbalneav> You don't have a cdrom at all?
<sbalneav> I don't think installing from a hard drive partition is supported.
<eugeneai> Yes. Asus S200 have no CD-ROM. Are there a way to boot squashfs fron HDD without vmware?
<eugeneai> .. or install to a remote PC?
<eugeneai> .. or use bootstap from Debian? Is it supported.
<eugeneai> Is it possible to "renew" form some of debian distro?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<MrGreen_> anyone hjome
<MrGreen_> ?
<bddebian> Howdy
<highvoltage> howdy bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday
<jsgotangco> Hey
<bddebian> Howdy Kamping_Kaiser, jsgotangco
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<jsgotangco> Too bad this mobile client doesnt have tab completion
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight
<edubuntugirl> goodnight, highvoltage. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<highvoltage> thanks
<Amaranth> edubuntugirl: goodnight
<edubuntugirl> goodnight, Amaranth. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<Amaranth> :D
#edubuntu 2007-10-22
<putneyt> Admin - using NFS home directories and LDAP for authentication. Users connecting with X or VNC get OAFIID errors. Every document in OpenOffice has to be recovered if 2nd user connects. I've misconfigured something and looking for direction.
<yafeb> I all,
<yafeb> I'm trying to run edubuntu-server for a school but can't get the thin client running LDM
<yafeb> Here is the message (client side)
<yafeb> mount: Mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device
<yafeb> Any idea?
<yafeb> I'm trying to run edubuntu-server for a school but can't get the thin client running LDM
<RichEd> ogra: any ideas for yafeb ?
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: whats the prob?
<RichEd> can't get the thin client running LDM <- ^^
<RichEd> Here is the message (client side)
<RichEd> mount: Mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device
<RichEd> ---
<ogra_cmpc> thats a new isntall ?
<ogra_cmpc> either the nbd server isnt running or the client doesnt get handed out the right nbd server port
<ogra_cmpc> without knowing more details i cant say anything more
 * ogra_cmpc is trying to work with extended screen here, its maqjorly annoying
<ogra_cmpc> luckily thats the last driver that supports it  :) in hardy it wont even be possible
<yafeb> RichED and ogra_cmpc : Thank you for your help. It's my first attempt to run Edubuntu (we were using K12LTSP) and, yes, it's a new install.
<RichEd> yafeb: good stuff ... let us know what you feel about the differences in experience
<RichEd> and also if their is anything you "miss" that we should seriously be looking at including
<yafeb> Right now, I can't get Edubuntu working ;-)
<yafeb> Here is what I've done right now...
<yafeb> I process with a PXE netboot install and select the task: edubuntu-server
<yafeb> After the reboot, I configured the DHCP server (2 NICs are used)
<yafeb> Then I run 'sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386' since the server is an AMD 64 computer
<yafeb> After that, dchroot was installed in order to manage the ltsp-i386 chroot
<yafeb> Then, entering in the chroot, I installed edubuntu-desktop
<yafeb> There was a failure caused by acpid (see #65635)
<yafeb> But the workaround works for me and edubuntu-desktop was installed in the chroot
<yafeb> Then I ran 'sudo ltsp-update-image --arch i386'
<RichEd> yafeb: if you are making any install notes, we'd be glad to have them in ... in any form ... email or a wiki page
<yafeb> No problem
<RichEd> note that ogra is your main man for assistance, and i am about to go into a 90 min meeing ... but will keep an eye on the channel
<yafeb> The thing is that all of that does not work at the moment :-(
<RichEd> ogra is in and out of atttention now ... he is working on the classmate PC and appears as <ogra_cmpc>
<yafeb> OK, thank you Riched, I stay tuned
<RichEd> i'll see if I can nudge him ... he'll be around and about
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser / kgoetz you around ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, yes i am
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: any clues for yafeb ? he's moving from k12ltsp to edubuntu and is having some install teething issues ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, let me read up
<RichEd> thanks karl
<Kamping_Kaiser> yafeb, are these thin or fat clients? a thin client doesnt need edubuntu-desktop (at least in dapper)
<yafeb> For testing purpose, I'm currently using my laptop (centrino)
<yafeb> nbd server is running on the server
<yafeb> but I still get the error "/dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device" client side
<Kamping_Kaiser> that doesnt answer my question though.
<yafeb>  I still get the error starting with "/dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device" and ending with "Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init"
<yafeb> Kamping_Kaiser: my laptop is used as the client (thin or Fat, I do not know)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yafeb, i'll asume your trying to do thin clients
<Kamping_Kaiser> yafeb, you dont need the full distro in the chroot, just a very minimal one (the one ltsp-build-chroot created)
<Kamping_Kaiser> once you have a minimal chroot we can probably try again.
<Kamping_Kaiser> you might be able to work with the full chroot, but i dont know (a lot has changed since i set up my dapper ltsp)
<yafeb> all right, I try this. Just another question: where should I install edubuntu-desktop then ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> if its an LTSP server, on the server
<yafeb> On the server, not into the chroot, that's right ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats correct
<yafeb> RichED and Kamping_Kaiser: thank you very much for your help. I was wrong, thinking all the LTSP part should be running in the chroot like a virtualized host. I'm going to try edubuntu now. See you soon :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yafeb, see you then
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: i fear for a proper final cmpc image we'll need a lighter browser
<ogra_cmpc> i got teh gutsy image going, abiword and gnumeric work at an awesome speed ...
<RichEd> okay ... is there anything sensible we can use ?
<ogra_cmpc> but as soon as i open FF it tears down everything ... cant use it with any other app running
<ogra_cmpc> no
<RichEd> cool ... LaserJock mentioned the abiword & gnumeric
<ogra_cmpc> there is no replacenent
<RichEd> what browser does xubuntu use ?
<ogra_cmpc> the probe here is that all usable browsers use firefox as backend
<ogra_cmpc> firefox :)
<RichEd> :(
<ogra_cmpc> there is a spec for a mobile firefox ... for UME
<ogra_cmpc> but thats still in its infancty
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: on the gobuntu lists, someone suggested epiphany for a replacement for firefox, as apposed to iceweasel. does epiphany use the same kind of resources than firefox?
<ogra_cmpc> over all the gutsy image is slower than teh feisty one btw
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: its identical
<ogra_cmpc> just doesnt use XUL
<ogra_cmpc> iceweasle *is* firefox without the branding (trademark free firwefox)
<highvoltage> so you'd probably want something that uses webkit
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: yes, sorry, I'm actually merging two issues here
<ogra_cmpc> we would neeed to use something thats based on xulrunner (even i'm not sure that solves anything)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: the reasoin why firefox went into gobuntu is that no one maintains iceweasel in ubuntu
<ogra_cmpc> but we're biound by the trademark ....
<ogra_cmpc> that forbids us to shipo xulrunner
<ogra_cmpc> you cant maintain iceweasle in ubuntu as long as firefox is there
<ogra_cmpc> its simply illegal to have both
<ogra_cmpc> you either agree to teh terms of the tradmark or use iceweasle ... both doesnt work
<highvoltage> yes, but tradmarked stugg is illegal in Gobuntu!
<highvoltage> so for gobuntu it's either iceweasel or epiphany
<ogra_cmpc> well, use dillo :P
<highvoltage> over my dead body!
<ogra_cmpc> epi uses ff
<highvoltage> indeed
<ogra_cmpc> no way to have it without
<ogra_cmpc> at least not as long as its in main
<highvoltage> but epiphany doesn't have the mozilla trademarks
<ogra_cmpc> sure it does
<ogra_cmpc> it has to either use iceweasle, xulrunner or ff to link against
<ogra_cmpc> it simply inherits the problem
<ogra_cmpc> same gors for galeon (if that still exists)
<ogra_cmpc> but i doyubt that solves and of the IO issues for cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> i doubt xulrunner works better without L2 cache in the CPU and flashdiosk transfer rates
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: in any case we'll need to have a lighter desktop thats better suited for teh device ...
<ogra_cmpc> that should ease a lot ... (even it wont speed up FF it will use way less ram)
<ogra_cmpc> and a WM that allows only one app to be used
<ogra_cmpc> (... hardy specs)
<ogra_cmpc> i guess i'll have to dive deep into UME for that
<ogra_cmpc> and steal their desktop
 * highvoltage holds the loud xfce scream in
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: not better i have an xfce install here
<highvoltage> ouch!
<ogra_cmpc> it saves some ram but hasnt significantly faster IO
<RichEd> ogra: we need to set up some specs for UDS ... Jason from Intel will be there to discuss
<ogra_cmpc> and still allows multiple apps
 * RichEd away
<RichEd> collection -> 15 mins
<highvoltage> yes, I must confess that RAM savings is the only real benefit Xfce gives
<ogra_cmpc> i'd go with something like GPE with matchbox
 * highvoltage is not familiar with that. is it very usable?
<ogra_cmpc> its a pocketpc desktop
<ogra_cmpc> built for the ipaq
<ogra_cmpc> www.handhelds.org has links
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra_cmpc> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey ogra!
<sbalneav> Lemme guess where you're logged in from?
<sbalneav> :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> no fun though
<sbalneav> Not happy?
<ogra_cmpc> to slow
<ogra_cmpc> mainly FF is the prob
<ogra_cmpc> i nearly cant load planet.u.c (takes ages)
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: could you mail justin and ask for sending me the notetaking app ? (i'm a bit limited in my conversation capabilities atm )
<RichEd> okay ... will do
<ogra_cmpc> screen size switching works fine so far
<ogra_cmpc> but they should be aware that this is only possible due to using an obsolete driver
<ogra_cmpc> the hardy X wont support the virtual screen setting at all anymore
<ogra_cmpc> beyond that it breaks teh fullscreen modes of most games
<RichEd> ogra: i'm setting up a wiki page later today
<ogra_cmpc> ok
<RichEd> we can list these as issues
<ogra_cmpc> well, its a simple fact that we cant support the virtual screen stuff in hardy
<ogra_cmpc> Xorg dropped support for it in gutsy already ... i can only achove it with an ugly hack
<nonsparker> Hello all
<nonsparker> Does any one here use the ltsp-kiosk on their edubuntu server?
<sbalneav> Not I
<nonsparker> do you know anything about configuring the UI?
<nonsparker> any UI
<sbalneav> Well, you'd probably want to install ubuntu-desktop, or the like
<sbalneav> How about giving us a little context, so we might be able to suggest something.  Any reason why you're wanting to use kiosk mode?
<sbalneav> nonsparker: Hello?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey you there?  The edubuntu handbook on the web site: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/  is the old one.
<nonsparker> sorry
<nonsparker> sbalneav: are you still there
<nonsparker> I was working on something else
<nonsparker> I am trying enable the window list applet to the bottom of the kiosk desktop
<sbalneav> Maybe check .xsession-errors to see why it's failing?
<nonsparker> when you do ltsp-build-client --kiosk there is no panel on the bottom of the screen I would like to add a panel
<sbalneav> Like I said before, I think you need to install ubuntu-desktop in the chroot.
<sbalneav> ogra_cmp1: Hey, when you do a build-client --kiosk, does ubuntu-desktop get installed?
<ogra_cmp1> no
<sbalneav> That's what I thought.
<ogra_cmp1> as the documentation says, it installs a webkiosk
<sbalneav> So if nonsparker wants a lower gnome panel, he'd have to install ubuntu-desktop
<ogra_cmp1> firefox and window manager
<ogra_cmp1> well
<nonsparker> ok
<nonsparker> ok
<nonsparker> thank you
<nonsparker> so I should chroot to the i386 and apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<sbalneav> Yeah, I don't think anyone's really tested that, so YMMV
<nonsparker> thanks a bunch
<nonsparker> I'll let you know how it goes
<ogra_cmp1> and make sure to have enough ram to even run teh desktop
<ogra_cmp1> i wouldnt go below 256M
<ogra_cmp1> (and even thats quite tight)
<Ludwik> hi
<sbalneav> Hello
<Ludwik> Sorry to bother you, but maybe you will be able to help me. I work for a high-school in Poland (Europe). We have more than 20 laptops we use in classrooms. In previous versions, at least since 6.06 our WiFi cards worked great. But after upgrading to Gutsy WiFi stoped working
<Ludwik> I found a thread about this issue in Ubuntu Forms, but I didn't find the solution
<Ludwik> It's a major problem fot us since we use WiFi not only to connect to the internet but also to network the laptops together - share user accounts and data
<Ludwik> I'm new here. Is it ok for me to ask such questions on this channel and will anybody be able to help me?
<ogra_cmp1> what kind of card is that ?
<ogra_cmp1> (whats teh chipset)
<Ludwik> It's rt2500-based card
<Ludwik> Here is the thread - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=582033
<ogra_cmp1> hmm, i"m currently connected through ralink wlan card
<ogra_cmp1> works in gutsy for me ...
<Ludwik> It shows the avaliable networks, but is unable to connect, at least to our WPA-protected network
 * ogra_cmp1 waits for the browser to start 
<ogra_cmp1> oh, hmm, i didnt try WPA yet
<ogra_cmp1> only WEP
<Ludwik> Judging from this thread many paople have similar issues
<ogra_cmp1> did you ask in #ubuntu-kernel ?
<ogra_cmp1> they are usually handling drivers and might know a workaround
<Ludwik> Ok, thank you, I'll try than...
<ogra_cmp1> there is surely a way to get it working
<Ludwik> I hope :)
<ogra_cmp1> well, worst case you can always compile teh driver from serialmonkey yourself
<Aquila> is there a problem with the servers/repositories? i'm getting errors when trying to apt-get update
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Ping
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<Burgundavia> how is the snow?
<sbalneav> Don't have any yet.
<sbalneav> I'm hoping it holds off for a few more weeks.
<Burgundavia> heh
<sbalneav> You on the docteam at all?
<Burgundavia> not anymore
<Burgundavia> too many things taking my time
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok.
<Burgundavia> my main project right now is the Fridge and the CC
<sbalneav> The new version of the edubuntu handbooks out, but the webpages are still the old one.
<sbalneav> Was just wondering who did the docbook -> html on that.
<Burgundavia> likely the automated stuff
<Burgundavia> talk to mdke
<Burgundavia> matthew esat
<sbalneav> Ah, ok.
<sbalneav> Thanks.
<[[Charlie]]> edubuntu.
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> there's a school we have in Chile, that is currently working with Ubuntu on all his Desktops and Laptops
<mhz> they want to test Edubuntu now
<mhz> but they feel there is no point on using LTSP
<mhz> since most of his Desktops and Laptops have over 1 GHz on processor
<mhz> BUT they are VERY interested on Student Control
<mhz> Any config/setting you may suggest to control Student Control (or alike) for this School ?
<stgraber> you may want to have a look at iTalc, it's one of the proposed alternatives to the Edubuntu Thin Client Manager
<stgraber> http://italc.sf.net
 * mhz checks
<mhz> stgraber: so you mean, for LTSP = Student Control. Non LTSP env. ITALC ?
<stgraber> we have 1.0.2 version in Gutsy but I personaly tried it using a 1.0.3 package I did for Feisty (worked fine)
<mhz> nice
<stgraber> I'm also using iTalc in a LTSP env (for mixed environment)
<stgraber> half of the computers on Windows, the other half on Linux with half of those being thin clients on LTSP
<mhz> oh
<mhz> I see
<stgraber> mhz: it was proposed to use iTalc as default control app instead of the TCM, that's an option for Hardy as the current TCM would need some work anyway (VNC integration isn't good)
<stgraber> mhz: I guess that we'll discuss that a bit at the UDS
<mhz> and why?
<mhz> no more Python?
<stgraber> there is no point in having two tools doing the same thing, and having it upstream is better as we don't need to care about actually coding it
<mhz> good pint
<mhz> point
<mhz> and what does Ogra feel about it?
<stgraber> + iTalc is multi-platform which is great to help a school switching from Windows to Linux as the tool remain the same
<mhz> oh, even more inteteresting point
<stgraber> IIRC he doesn't like the UI (and I +1 on that) but the features are cool
<mhz> so, work could be focused on imporving the GUI
<mhz> instead of the whole development
<mhz> or coding
<stgraber> yes and improving LTSP support (shutdown/reboot functions don't work with LTSP)
<stgraber> but the VNC/text message/encryption part would be upstream
<stgraber> and they have a really interesting TODO list including internet filtering (mozilla plugin), MacOS support, ...
<stgraber> http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> nice!
<mhz> and how about network consumption?
<stgraber> better or at least similar to the one of TCM (they have a better configured VNC than we have)
<stgraber> The interesting point of their roadmap is the plug-in system as it would basically let you do broadcasting of the demo stream instead of unicasting (using VLC or any other video encoder) which would help not killing your network while doing a demo
<stgraber> but that's for 2.0
<mhz> well, right, "grid" way of developing is better in this case.
<mhz> stgraber: let me introduce you to aherrera
<mhz> stgraber: he's responsible for the implementation of Ubuntu (and possibly Edubuntu) on his School
<mhz> he's Gnome coder
<aherrera> Hi
<mhz> and may be interested on helping both translating and coding (when possible)
<stgraber> hi aherrera
<aherrera> hi stgraber
<mhz> stgraber: As I have been away of Edubuntu for so much time, I'd appreciate you could "guide" him where to start
<stgraber> well, the first point is to see if you actually have a use for a LTSP server (no need of a LTSP server with fast computers)
<stgraber> if not Edubuntu is only Ubuntu + edu artwork + some edu packages (that you could install on any clean Ubuntu as they share the same repository)
<mhz> right
<mhz> hence they installed Ubuntu
<aherrera> We ubuntu in 46 laptops
<mhz> most probably is they will use XFCE as desktop on machines with fast processor but less RAM (256 MB)
<mhz> however, they need to "monitor" students
<aherrera> And we ubuntu in 46 Desktop in a language laboratory
<stgraber> ok, so in your case I'd recommend to have a look at iTalc as it isn't OS/arch/WM specific so you can have computers running Windows, Ubuntu+gnome, Ubuntu+XFCE, Ubuntu+KDE they will all be managed the same way
<stgraber> just be careful about your network as doing things like demo on 20 computers at the same time will certainly eat a lot of bandwidth, so fast network would be fine (100Mb/s being the minimum if you expect decent performances)
<aherrera> Well guess reading about something iTalc
<mhz> stgraber: and if Edubuntu needs a couple of hands for devel and/or translating into spanish... aherrera could do that, too
<stgraber> every Ubuntu derivatives are managed and translated on LP, so translating Ubuntu will also translate Edubuntu
<mhz> true
<stgraber> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+lang/es
<stgraber> argh : https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+lang/es
<aherrera> OK
<stgraber> (edge is beta website and I always forget to remove it from copy/pasted URLs ...)
<aherrera> OK, thank you very much .. Then start to work in the translation
<aherrera> and this week iTalc fitted in the library of college
<stgraber> ok guys, it's pretty late here so see you all later
<aherrera> see you later
<mhz> c ya
#edubuntu 2007-10-23
<sbalneav> Evening all
<RichEd> great edubuntu review: Microsoft matters less every 6 months
<RichEd> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1280
<jeromesg> hi
<RichEd> hi js
<jeromesg> nice write up :)
<RichEd> jeromesg: he is a champion of ours ... is in love with our LTSP
<jeromesg> i havent been using ltsp lately, doing mostly servers
<jeromesg> not much on desktops
<kgoetz> ltsp+pxe ftw
<arnadelo> has anyone installed edubuntu 7.10 with ltsp server
<osl> Hi everybody , i am facing a problem in starting X on a terminal , can anyone help ??
<desertc> I don't know, but #ubuntu generally answers technical questions.
<osl> desertc, it's about LTSP
<RichEd> osl: also ask in #ltsp ... that is the same implementation as ours
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ogra_cmpc> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> How's it going ogra?  Getting geeked yet?
<ogra_cmpc> all scripts and modifications for cmpc are done
<ogra_cmpc> now i need to create packages for that
<ogra_cmpc> beyond that i only need the code for the notetaking app (RichEd ?) and to write a little installer
<sbalneav> Notetaking app?
<ogra_cmpc> the squashfs and initramfs for gutsy are done ,,, switching to virtual 800x600 screen works (i wrote a little panel applet for that) aned its properly installable
<ogra_cmpc> for that clippable scanner device that you can clip on a sheet of paper
<sbalneav> Oh, I don't have that little widget :)
<ogra_cmpc> it reads the inpout from the device and transfers what you wrote to a canvas that you can save as bitmap remember ?
<ogra_cmpc> but intel had it when they presented cmpc
<sbalneav> Yeah, I heard people talk about it but I never saw it.
<sbalneav> in action at least.
<sbalneav> Cool.  Should I bring my CMPC with me?
<ogra_cmpc> i would write an app myself (especially since theirs was gtk1.2 iirc) but i dont know anything about hid programming
<sbalneav> Do we have the source for the old one?
<ogra_cmpc> if you want a gutsy image, bring it, yes :)
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> i'm waiting for the source
<sbalneav> I'll need a 2 gig memory stick too, yes?
<sbalneav> You get the speed problem sorted out?
<ogra_cmpc> no, i'll bring several
<sbalneav> You will?
<ogra_cmpc> we'LL INSTALL IT ON TEHN INTERNAL DISK
<ogra_cmpc> OOPS
<sbalneav> Yo've got a 1 gig image?
<ogra_cmpc> not yet
<sbalneav> oh, but you will?
<ogra_cmpc> the one the installer script will use will be a 1gig one
<sbalneav> cool.
<ogra_cmpc> probably only 600M
<sbalneav> Wow!
<sbalneav> Good job!
<ogra_cmpc> depends how smart i'm with teh script
<sbalneav> What did the slowness turn out to be?
<ogra_cmpc> the installed system will in any case be 1gig
<ogra_cmpc> the slowness is still there
<ogra_cmpc> its kless slow and well usable with one or two a\pps running
<sbalneav> Is it a "disk speed" issue or a "processor speed" issue?
<ogra_cmpc> both :)
<ogra_cmpc> no L2 cache in the CPU limits the IO there oretty much
<ogra_cmpc> and teh flashdisk is slow by design
<sbalneav> right
<ogra_cmpc> if i dont disable the disk cache in FF and try to load planet it takes about 5min
<ogra_cmpc> without disk cache its usable (still around 1min but significantly different)
<sbalneav> Oh, BTW, is mdke a canonical employee?
<ogra_cmpc> not that i know
<ogra_cmpc> at least not yet
<ogra_cmpc> why ?
<sbalneav> We need to get him to re-run whatever magic to get the new handbook up on the website
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<sbalneav> Wonder if he's in #ubuntu-doc
<ogra_cmpc> ivf he's here he likely is
<ogra_cmpc> here==online
<sbalneav> Just pinged him, I'll keep an eye out for him today.
<ogra_cmpc> i was going through a list with possible specs today
<sbalneav> Cool!  We have some up on the site? I need to sit down and bang a few in.
<sbalneav> brb coffee
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> not yet
<ogra_cmpc> what i have so far:
<ogra_cmpc> - virtual-hal-devices
<ogra_cmpc> - localapps
<ogra_cmpc> - gui frontends for ltsp tools
<ogra_cmpc> any additions are welcome :)
<sbalneav> ogra_cmpc: Bug #156229 seems kind of weird, eh?  I can't see why that would hang.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156229 in ltsp "ltsp_config hanging in NFS_root environment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156229
<ogra_cmpc> me neither
<RichEd> hi ogra / ogra_cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> hey
<RichEd> that medibuntu thread is a bit sad
<ogra_cmpc> ah well
<ogra_cmpc> we cant control the derivatives users build
<RichEd> we cannot be called in to be police over "a set of personal laws"
<RichEd> exactly
<ogra_cmpc> and we cant deny wiki access
<RichEd> and there is a strong moral issue behind that all ... i always say that if someone is allowed to browse the world cup soccer site at work, then a babe site is just another "non-work" use of facilities
<RichEd> to say which is right or wrong is not an absolute call
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> and not up to us if we have defined that space as public wiki
<ogra_cmpc> he could go to teh CC with teh issue or so to have it discussed and find a policy thqat makes everyone happy
<RichEd> yep ... otherwise we end up curtailing freedom of expression ... once you say that ABC is not acceptable, then, the door is open for any other decision about "stuff we don't like"
<ogra_cmpc> or he could ask medibuntu to put the hotbabe stuff not on the frontpage
<RichEd> if you allow a christian ubuntu, we should also allow a druid and pagan ubuntu etc.
<ogra_cmpc> mubuntu exists already :)
<ogra_cmpc> i wouldnt object druidbuntu or paganbuntu ,,,,
<ogra_cmpc> kkkbuntu would probably not coc conform though :)
<ogra_cmpc> *not be
<ogra_cmpc> but beyond that i love to see new derivativews
<RichEd> should i respond to the email thread, or is it better to let that sort of stuff die a natural death ?
<sbalneav> mediabuntu thread?  Link?
<ogra_cmpc> a mail to all of the people listed on teh edubuntu.org contacts page
<ogra_cmpc> complaining about a link from teh ubuntu wiki to the medibuntu frontpage
<ogra_cmpc> they advertise their hotbabe package
<ogra_cmpc> directly on teh frontpage
<ogra_cmpc> yay !
 * ogra_cmpc just got a phonecall .... if i return from boston they'll install my new SDSL line here\
<ogra> thats better
<RichEd> ogra: if i return from boston <- well with your travel luck that's only 95% certain
<ogra> i have direct flights this time
<ogra> and both with reliable lufthansa
<ogra> *but*
<ogra> german train conductors are on strike
<ogra> so my flights should be fine, i'm just not sure i can reach them in time (or return home afterwards)
<stgraber> ogra: :)
<ogra> taxi frankfurt -> kassel is doable for 300 euros :P
 * ogra did that once when he was totally desparate
<stgraber> ouch
<ogra> it wasnt my most expensive taxi ride :)
<sbalneav> What WAS your most expensive taxi ride?
 * sbalneav is now curious
<ogra> 340
<ogra> for about 500km
<ogra> which is quite a good rate still ... for a taxi
<sbalneav> 500 km taxi ride?! Wow
<ogra> well, it was 250 each direction and he had relatives in hamburg so he pikcked me up teh next day for return and we justified a fixed price
<ogra> with the train situation in .de i'm really considering to buy a cheap car for the winter
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: here
<LaserJock_> highvoltage: bah, one sec
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I forgot I had irssi on my other machine still running
<highvoltage> ah :)
<pips1> LaserJock: highvoltage I'm here
<LaserJock> pips1: hi
<highvoltage> pips1: ah, great
<pips1> hi there
<highvoltage> pips1: since you have write permissions, can you get https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~newz/fridge/fridge-theme-v2
<highvoltage> pips1: and install it and create a user that uses that theme so that we can see how it affects things?
<pips1> ok
<pips1> I'm currently busy fetching the theme
<pips1> erm, this sure takes a while
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> welcome to bzr :-)
<pips1> highvoltage: I have enabled the theme for your existing theme-testing user
<pips1> now I need to cook diner for my better half :-)
<pips1> dinner
<pips1> LaserJock: ^^^
<pips1> ok guys, cu later
<pips1> erm, there fridge seems really scrambles things up well... :-/
<pips1> cu folks
<nixternal> ogra: if you are around, it seems it is your turn in the classroom
 * desertc watches the Edubuntu presentation in #ubuntu-classroom ....
<desertc> Anyone want to talk about Edubuntu for a half an hour?
<LaserJock> what's going on?
<desertc> Oliver Grawert who was scheduled to talk in #ubuntu-classroom is a no show.  Still a half-hour of the session left.
<desertc> LaserJock: Thanks.
<stgraber> desertc: I probably can answer some questions about Edubuntu but I'm not ogra and my answers won't be as accurate has him
<stgraber> desertc: I'm more of the LTSP server part
<desertc> stgraber: you may want to join the channel, and the -chat, too
<stgraber> desertc: already on -classroom, will join -chat too
<juliux> RichEd, ping?
<stgraber> LaserJock: want help for the LTSP questions ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: probably
<desertc> This Moodle: [ http://www.moodle.org ] is insanely popular with educators.  Y'all could do worse than to weave that open source software into Edubuntu.   It would be a great selling point.
<LaserJock> desertc: we do have it
<LaserJock> desertc: but it has issues so we couldn't do it by default in Gutsy
<LaserJock> desertc: we'll have it for Hardy
<desertc> I attended a couple teacher conferences, and they could not stop talking about Moodle.  But they seem to have trouble maintaining the packages, since it updates so often.
<LaserJock> yes, and was a security nightmare
<LaserJock> we did a lot of work on our packages for gutsy
<desertc> If there was a distro that maintained Moodle with a series of other applications, then teachers would feel good about using that distro.
<LaserJock> and now it's in Main
<desertc> That's great to hear!
<LaserJock> so for Hardy it should be ready to go, installed by default
<alteroo> Wow
<alteroo> Most amount of people I've ever seen in here I think :)
<desertc> You could probably get Edubuntu into schools just on being the Moodle-distro alone.
<nixternal> I would have to agree with that one...I am seeing Moodle more and more here being used
<desertc> I'm just going to say it... it's Moodle-insanity.  ;)  Everyone is moving from Blackboard to Moodle.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> that's why we've put a lot of effort into it
<desertc> But NONE of them budget a support cost around the transition.
<nixternal> desertc: ya, our university just switched from crap, to crap, I mean blackboard, except the IT division, they went with Moodle
<desertc> (Problem with selling Linux as a cost savings rather than a feature improvement.)
<shane_> hi all!
<lavender_dream> One question that also coincided with what I was mainly curious about Edubuntu was asked by someone but wasn't answered due to time constraint/etc. That is: Regarding the content of the educational programs in edubuntu do you plan on expanding the content in edubuntu to college level?
<desertc> So there is a real opportunity for a distro that supports Moodle really well.
<LaserJock> lavender_dream: yes
<desertc> Can you get it on a LiveCD, I wonder?
<LaserJock> lavender_dream: I'm a PhD student and very keen on getting Edubuntu into universities
<LaserJock> I've been working, albeit slowly, on getting more uni level applications in
<LaserJock> desertc: yes, as I said, Hardy should have it :-)
<LaserJock> not on a LiveCD though
<desertc> Crazy question: Do you see any way to tie Ubuntu LoCos into the Edubuntu distro?  Putting a plug into Edubuntu letting kids know about ways they can get involved with the world-wide open source community?
<LaserJock> as it requires database setup etc. and is really a server app
<LaserJock> well, we'd certainly like to
<LaserJock> as always, the problem is having enough hands to do it
<desertc> Imagine if students started understanding about the FOSS community in school....  *far away look in his eyes*
<LaserJock> so if you have any suggestions of people ... ;-)
<shane_> Will Edubuntu have a more simplistic interface, maybe as an option for younger children (<6yrs)? along the lines of sugar....
<desertc> I am interested in helping out the Edubuntu team more.  So I will reserve the remainder of my questions until later.
<nealmcb> the leader of the https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-study-content/ team, MauricioHernandez, hasn't responded to emails or approved new members in a long time, though it seems like a very worthwhile team.  Does anyone know him?
<LaserJock> shane_: I'm really not sure. We don't have any current plans for that
<LaserJock> nealmcb: I know him
<LaserJock> nealmcb: he's not really active anymore. Real life got him
<LaserJock> nealmcb: if you'd like to join or get that going please email edubuntu-devel
<nealmcb> LaserJock: thanks.  musashi1 has a similar team now, I forget the name, so maybe he'll pick it up.  I just hate it when dozens of people volunteer for a team that is stuck in the mud because only a single person is an admin.  They should have some sort of multiple-admin guideline in launchpad....
<musashi1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolSupport
<nealmcb> :-)
<musashi1> or https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-school-support
<musashi1> and yes, we are stuck in the mud :)
<nealmcb> lol
<musashi1> wait, wrong one
<nealmcb> I sure know my eyes are bigger, and my head better at nodding "yes", than my hands and feet can manage :-)
<musashi1> https://launchpad.net/~education-enthusiasts
<musashi1> though the other one is a good idea too
<nealmcb> more teams!  we need more teams!  :-)
<nealmcb> lets appoint a committee - that will solve it :-)
<shane_> if i may butt in with a few few questions... I would like to deploy Edubuntu at my mothers school using LTSP since most of the current machines are meant for win 98 and prior.
 * musashi1 is still wondering if there are efforts in canonical or the community to help further develop educational apps that are good but not "there yet"
<shane_> what kind of hardware considerations will i have to make?
<shane_> would i just have to plug everything in and it would work?
<shane_> i am more concerned about the x terminal sideof things.
<musashi1> shane_: based on my lab, a decent server with enough memory to match clients, clients that PXE boot are easier to handle but etherboot also works. other than that it "just worked" for us on old circa win98 clients
<musashi1> and a new server
<shane_> yes i think a new server can be organized...
<musashi1> the whole thing has to be wired through switches too
<shane_> does LTSP do load sharing between the server and clients?
<musashi1> i don't know that...someone else ^^
<shane_> since I will be using x terminals... how is the sound handled for each terminal? since the app is run on the server...
<shane_> kids games do need the sound for the full effect :)
<musashi1> i'm not sure i know what you mean by x-terms but in our lab the sound worked out of the client speakers. i suspect headphones would work too but didn't try
<hippu> no reason it wouldn't
<shane_> well i suppose you used boxes that were meant to be used as x terminals... i'm thinking of using old computers... booting off the network...
<musashi1> shane_: that is exactly what we are doing
<shane_> oh cool
<musashi1> old computers
<musashi1> and new server
<musashi1> old server == really slow :)
<shane_> :)
<shane_> and in terms of system admin? because i will not be there.. and no one there has ever used Linux...
<LaserJock> musashi1: regarding your question about edu apps. I think if there were enough people we'd be interested in help upstreams
<LaserJock> Edubuntu essentially became a good chunk of upstream for LTSP for a while
<musashi1> so really no attempt to "improve" the included tools
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I guess the answer is pretty much no
<LaserJock> we've essentially got 2 people to do technical work
<shane_> thanks guys... i'm off...
<musashi1> it would be really nice if there could be some push to move some of the ed apps forward
<musashi1> not sure how to do that though
<LaserJock> yeah, it's not an easy thing
<desertc> LaserJock: Ever thought of including a library of ebooks with Edubuntu?  Use a couple dozen megabytes to distribute some of the best Public Domain books?
<LaserJock> well, we've even thought about Wikipedia
<LaserJock> there are issues that come up though
<LaserJock> disc space is a big problem
<LaserJock> you also have to maintain and support it
<desertc> How about just mentioning the resources somewhere?
<desertc> A lot of people don't realize there are 10000s of freely available ebooks at the Univ of Virginia
<musashi1> built in links?
<desertc> Seems like including references to great educational material available on the Internet would be a sensible thing for an educational operating system!
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to work on a menuing system that will all much more "linkability"
<LaserJock> *allow
<desertc> Neat!
<LaserJock> it's not very easy
<LaserJock> Gnome doesn't support links in the menu :(
<musashi1> what about a few really good links built into firefox ala portable aps
<LaserJock> that's certainly doable I think
<desertc> musashi1: That's a sensible idea.
<LaserJock> the focus for Edubuntu has been in getting a really guood educational platform
<musashi1> it's a least a start
<LaserJock> i.e. server bits, LTSP, etc.
<LaserJock> once we have that down I think content will become a bigger focus
<musashi1> it's a good (great) platform. now we need it to be attractive to teachers. if teachers want the apps they will pressure the districts to get it
<musashi1> right now it's only seen as a cheap windows lab (note: windows labs are usually just used to type papers and surf the web) we need it to be something that windows doesn't offer...a set of outstanding a free software that teachers see as benefical to instruction
#edubuntu 2007-10-24
<i_> hello?
<i_> Anyone home?
<i_> LTSP problem - can anyone help?
<kgoetz> only if you ask a questio
<i_> LTSP working fine in Feisty - upgraded to Gutsy ... now can't have more than 6-8 thin-clients connected ... the rest don't see the server when booting up
<i_> kgoetz
<kgoetz> i_: what does 'don see the server' mean?
<i_> Meaning, failing when attempting to find the DHCP server
<i_> Gives up and boots from hard disk instead
<kgoetz> haave you checked the dhcp servers logs?
<i_> where would I find that?
<kgoetz>  /var/log/dhcp/
<i_> will have to check that at school tomorrow ... it was working find though, is this an issue with Gutsy?
<i_> I meant to say: fine
<kgoetz> could be. i havent used it
<i_> OK, I'm planning to rebuild the server with Feisty ... I don't want to have to setup all the user accounts again... what files do I need to save?
<i_> I have /home on a separate partitions so don't need to worry about that
<kgoetz> sounds ike a lot of ork
<kgoetz> *work
<i_> Is it that difficult?
<kgoetz> might be, depends on your setup
<i_> OK, thanks for your help - I'm off
<kgoetz> you'll need your especially since you downlgrading.. you'll wnt any user login details+email fro a start
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: you about?
<desertc> Hello again
<desertc> Busy in here today.
<desertc> What time is the meeting tomorrow?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> darn it
<LaserJock> I forgot to put them on Fridge
<LaserJock> desertc: I think it should be at 20:00 UTC
<desertc> I might be giving a speech at that time.
<LaserJock> desertc: where are you located?
<desertc> Nashville, Tennessee.  We just has a really terrific conference here called Technology and Education, which focused on Open Source solutions.
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I'm over in Reno, NV
<desertc> I really want to get involved communicating the message of Edubuntu to local schools, and I hope that I can work with you all and learn approaches to talk with educators.
<desertc> Reno is terrific, as is Carson City.  I did a lot of work in Nevada when I lived in Las Vegas.
<desertc> Department of Education has a bunch of money there, too, from the gambling.
<LaserJock> yeah
<desertc> Do you think I can join some teams that would help me understand how to promote Ubuntu in my area?
<desertc> We have 16 public high schools, for instance.
<desertc> We probably have 10 private and religious high schools, too.
<desertc> There's lots of effort that I can do here, and if I can follow in someone else's footsteps, then all the better.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think plugging into the edubuntu-users mailing list and hanging out here are pretty good places to start
<desertc> Are you a good person to talk to about this, or are you mostly technical?
<LaserJock> the mailing list has a lot of people in your situation
<LaserJock> I'm really pretty much on the tech end
<LaserJock> I'm a PhD Chemistry student
<LaserJock> I'd like to work on getting Edubuntu uni-ready
<desertc> What is the mailinglist webpage?
<LaserJock> but as for K-12 education I'm not really the one to talk to
<desertc> I am really interested in K-12
<LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<desertc> That's the Free Software spot.  We need to get kids understanding open source and contributing.
<LaserJock> RichEd-1: Richard Weideman is the Canonical Education Programme lead
<desertc> I've chatted with him before.
<kgoetz> desertc: hi
<LaserJock> also David Trask is a good guy to talk to
<desertc> kgoetz: hello
<LaserJock> he's running a school on all Edubuntu
<desertc> In which country?
<LaserJock> US
<desertc> Huh!
<LaserJock> there's lots of Edubuntu in the US
<LaserJock> well, maybe not *lots*
<LaserJock> but I think Indiana is using it some
<kgoetz> woner if RichEd-1 has been in contact with teh school in aus running ubuntu, they gave a talk at lca, so he probably did
<desertc> Some... heh
<LaserJock> and there's schools in Maine and New Hampsire I think
<desertc> I attended the Open Minds Conference in Indiana.  Good folk.
<LaserJock> if you send an email to edubuntu-users giving your situation and what you're looking for you should get some helpful responses
<desertc> I am looking through your archives.  You have some big-name people on the list.
<LaserJock> heh, well that's good
<desertc> David Trask seems to be in-line with some of my ideas.
<desertc> I have not done a lot of advocacy before, so I am looking to pair up with someone who can take me under their wing, or join up with a team who I can shadow before taking off on my own.
<LaserJock> sure
<desertc> I have been in many situations in the last month, at conferences and speeches, where I have been talking with educators, but I have felt that I have been underprepared on the direction to lead the discussion.
<LaserJock> I can certainly appreciate that feeling
<desertc> Hopefully the mailing list will help, but it seems like such a huge amount of mail generated.
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I guess I'm used to getting a lot of mail these days
<LaserJock> although I have cut back
<desertc> 210 so far this month
<LaserJock> I'm used to ~500/day
<desertc> How do you program when your New Mail indicator keeps going off? :)
<LaserJock> I just check it every once in a while
<LaserJock> just sit down and "process" for 30 min or so when I get up
<desertc> I write David Trask an email.
<desertc> *wrote
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: am now
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: are you still seeing the issue with your modem and plugging it in after login?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: the hsdpa modem? I haven't used it in a sine about 3 weeks ago, haven't tested with the proper gutsy release yet.
<highvoltage> *since
<Burgundavia> ahh
<mwright1> Hi can anyone here help with LTSP
<mwright1> I'd like to install ltsp in a xen instance so am wanndering whether the gutsy xen kernels support ltsp extensions such as local devices / sound
<ogra__> buth is not happening on a kernel level, as long as the kernel provides the devices ltsp will use them
<juliux> ogra, morning, i am sorry i forgot to send you the stickers
<juliux> ogra, when are you flying to boston?
<ogra> i'll survive
<ogra> friday morning
<juliux> ok
<juliux> so the stickers will be one day too late :(
<RichEd> hi ogra juliux
<ogra> morning
<juliux> moring RichEd
<juliux> ogra, btw with a chance from 99,999% there will be a second german ubucon next year;)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> how was it ?
<RichEd> ogra: the meeting is the late one tonight ?
<ogra> i think so, last week we had th early one iirc
<RichEd> according to my logs, it was the midday one
<RichEd> we need to chat a bit about UDS ... and specs and other discussions tonight
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'll prepare a list of suggestions
<juliux> ogra, it were great and funny two daies
<ogra> great :)
<juliux> ogra, and a lot of people
<RichEd> do you have much on technical, or can we go straight into planning ?
<ogra> i would have loved to come, but finishing the classmate is higher prio for me atm
<ogra> ll i coud talk about would be classmate work, i can give a hort status about that
<ogra> *short
<juliux> ogra, that is why we start planing the next ubucon this year;)
<ogra> or we can just skip tech :)
<RichEd> well that's part of the UDS spec planning anyway :)
<ogra> oki :)
<majikins> hello
<majikins> I'm tasked with implementing pc's in rural areas - edubuntu with educational software seems to be a good option
<RichEd> majikins: indeed it is ... it has a bunch of educational applications available directly after install from CD ...
<majikins> I'm also interested in locking the pc down
<RichEd> as well as additional applications (including more education) easily installed from the add/remove menu option (over the internet from our archives)
<majikins> ie only the home folder can be seen etc
<majikins> only thing I've come up with is kde-kiosk on the forums?
<RichEd> majikins: any *significant* change to a config requires a SU password, or membership of a SU allocated group
<RichEd> students cannot install / remove applications, change network etc. by default
<RichEd> ogra: kiosk mode ... what's your recommendation for majikins ?
<ogra> sabayon
<ogra> if he wants more lockdown capabilities than the default desktop offers sabayon and pessulus are the tools
<ogra> i'd also consider switching to epiphany instead of firefox for better lockdow capabilities
<ogra> (i plan that we'll ship epiphany as default browser in hardy ... it will be possbile to install it without firefox by then)
<ogra> (currently you need to disble the firefox manu entry, ephi requires it to be installed)
<majikins> is that just available from apt-get?
<ogra> yep
<majikins> they won't have internet access as yet
<majikins> many thanks - I'll have a look at those packages
<ogra> synaptic has a mode to save downloaded packages ...
<ogra> you can burn that to a CD and import it to the synaptic of the non networked server
<majikins> hoping to setup pc's before taking out - cloning hdd's once done and then taking out - but thanks for the tip
<majikins> has anyone here got experience setting up a kiosk pc in a rural community?
<juliux> majikins, i have installed some internet pcs
<juliux> but on this pc firefox starts automaticly
<juliux> because i have created an .xession file
<majikins> no - no internet access yet - just used for office use - ie openoffice, xsane for scanning
<juliux> then sabayon and pessuluss is the best thing you can get
<majikins> I was also thinking of making the interface look like xp's
<juliux> i locked down pcs for fairs in germany with sabayon and pessulus that is working well
<majikins> is there a how-to?
<juliux> i don't know
<majikins> any ideas on interface or am i worrying too much?
<majikins> thanks for the information - cheers
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> sbalneav dear fellow ... lend me your ear ... (or keyboard)
<Belutz> ogra, ping
<sbalneav> RichEd: Yes, I have one
<ogra> Belutz, ?
<Belutz> ogra, i just had a meeting with Intel Indonesia this afternoon
<ogra> ah
<Belutz> ogra, they want to bundle their classmate pc with edubuntu
<ogra> cool !
<Belutz> hmm i have one silly question
<Belutz> will edubuntu fit in 2GB of NAND flash?
<ogra> in 1Gig :)
<Belutz> cool
<Belutz> 1GB is already include the edu apps?
<ogra> thats the liveCD image modified for classmate
<Belutz> ah
<ogra> openoffice replaced with abiword/gnumeric
<Belutz> sorry, i rarely try the edubuntu, shame on me
<Belutz> so it will work then :D
 * ogra just uploaded teh modification packages for teh tweaks http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/packages/ 
<ogra> (dont use them ... !)
<Belutz> they asking Intel HQ to send demo units for us to play around
<ogra> intel doesnt ahve my image yet .. they get it at UDS
<Belutz> bookmarked :)
<Belutz> they already have one model with mandriva 2007
<ubotu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<Belutz> but the mandriva community in indonesia is not heard
<ogra> ubotu, shut up :P
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shut up :p - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Belutz> is it ok if we add Intel logo into the edubuntu splash screen?
<ogra> there is another image around from a company called metasys
<ogra> i personally dont mind ... not sure if canonical has any policy about that
<ogra> RichEd, might know
<Belutz> yup, they told us about metasys and xp, they haven't know about mandriva yet, but i told them i saw it on their website LOL
<Belutz> I'll ask him when his around
<Belutz> ogra, thanks for the information, I'll keep you posted with the intel indonesia-edubuntu progress
<LaserJock> morning Edubuntu land
<sbalneav> Morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you catch the ubuntu-doc email about getting the bzr branches set up?
<sbalneav> Hey, talked to mdke briefly, apparently he doesn't have access to the machine that hosts the web copy of the edubuntu handbook, so we've got the new one in the packages, and the old one on the web :(
<sbalneav> Saw something, there a wiki page about it?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> mdke was able to import the whole svn repo into bzr
<LaserJock> sounds like it took a few days
<sbalneav> So, where
<sbalneav> where's the bzr?
<LaserJock> well, right now he's got it on his machine
<sbalneav> ah
<LaserJock> he's pushing it to launchpad
<LaserJock> but who knows how long that'll take
<LaserJock> but we're going to have a separate edubuntu-<release> branch
<bdoin> I just updated to gutsy and It seems like the gcompris 8.3.2 does not run our python activities. When I run 'gcompris -D' I can see 'undefined symbol: gc_sound_pause'
<sbalneav> Are these addons that you've added to gcompris?
<bdoin> no, these are here from years
<bdoin> sorry, 'for years'
<sbalneav> So, they're included with gcompris?
<sbalneav> I've never seen any "python activities" in gcompris
<bdoin> yes they are but we don't display them in the menu
<bdoin> since we cannot load the plugin
<sbalneav> I'm sorry, I'm still unclear.  Is this something you've added to gcompris, or something that we ship?
<bdoin> ok, let me explain it
<ogra> sbalneav, bdoin s gcompris upstream
<bdoin> we provide with gcompris 100 activities, some coded in C, some in python
<sbalneav> ah, welcome!
<bdoin> each activity is a plugin
<sbalneav> I was just trying to figure out if this was something written locally, and suggest that maybe some interface had changed within gcompris, but if you're upstream, then you've written it all :)
<bdoin> for the python coded activity, there is a special plugin that can load any python coded activity
<sbalneav> So.  Then the next question is: is gc_sound_pause something that's a gcompris api?  Have we neglected to include something, maybe?
<bdoin> but this very one fails to load due to a missing symbol in the gcompris binary. it has probably been stripped.
<bdoin> I strongly suspect a gcc/ldd change that strips differently or better
<ogra> i would suspect a missing dependency rather
<ogra> some python module you use that isnt depended on in the package
<bdoin> no, it's a gcompris symnol
<LaserJock> bdoin: has this always been a problem or is it just in gutsy?
<bdoin> symbol, not a dependancy
<ogra> hmm
<sbalneav> Maybe re-build the package and turn off stripping?
<bdoin> we already identified this problem in gcompris 8.4 branch but for a different set of symbols, this one is new to me
<bdoin> well, it's not really a real stripping issue. the linker removes unused symbols.
<bdoin> nm /usr/bin/gcompris
<bdoin> nm: /usr/bin/gcompris: no symbols
<bdoin> strange, no symbols at all
<ogra> there should be a debug package with the sympbols enabled
<bdoin> ok, I install it
<bdoin> nm /usr/lib/debug/usr/games/gcompris | grep gc_sound_pause => it's there
<sbalneav> Does that fix the python problem?
<RichEd> Belutz: I'm back from dinner ...
<Belutz> RichEd, hi :)
<RichEd> I know that Intel Indonesia want to do a ClassmatePC pilot with Edubuntu
<Belutz> RichEd, arya contacted you right?
<RichEd> You can check this page for the overall "management of expectations" ... the current version is *unsupported* ... and a full supported version only is projected for 8.04
<RichEd> Arya ... yep indeed
<bdoin> by itself installing the -dbg packet don't solve the issue
<Belutz> yup, i was thinking that if intel could launch the edubuntu classmate pc on april 28, with the HH release party
<RichEd> So the current "advice" is ... you can use the image for demonstration purposes and to secure design wins and for a limited proof of concept pilot, *provided* that the Intel regional office, the Vendor and the Client (school) all know that this is unsupported
<Belutz> ok
<Belutz> the supported one will be in 8.04
<ogra> right
<RichEd> The spin we are adding is that the school can "be part of an open source pilot where their feedback and experiences will add to the shaping of the future prodyuct for the benefit of all"
<ogra> and probably be something completely different from what the current one is
<RichEd> But they must expect and be prepared to fall over and scrape their knees every now and then.
<Belutz> true
<Belutz> the action plan is like this:
<bdoin> I don't know how to run the dbg version of gcompris
<RichEd> regarding the Intel image into the Edubuntu splash ... I'd say "Okay provided that there is no attempt to pass off the software as being "owned or produced by Intel""
<Belutz> 1. intel will ask for demo unit from intel HQ for us to try out edubuntu
<ogra> bdoin, it should just replace the binary
<Belutz> 2. we try edubuntu on it
<RichEd> It should reflect "cooperation between partner"
<Belutz> 3. we find a school for a pilot project
 * ogra_cmpc waves
<Belutz> wow, ogra in cmpc? :D
<ogra> in the new gutsy image, yes
<Belutz> wow
<Belutz> :D
<ogra_cmpc> teacher@classmate:~$ df -h
<ogra_cmpc> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<ogra_cmpc> unionfs               951M  587M  365M  62% /
<Belutz> it's more wow than vista
<ogra_cmpc> (i only partitioned 1gig yet)
<Belutz> no need for swap?
<RichEd> Belutz: see here .... this page outlines the coordination of information
<RichEd> https://wiki.canonical.com/AllHands/2007/Education
<ogra_cmpc> well, dont run more than two apps at the same time
<ogra_cmpc> especially if one of them is firefox
<LaserJock> at least you can install stuff
<Belutz> RichEd, the page use password
<RichEd> We are not opposed to distributing the image ... we just want to make sure that the audience is aware of limitations and disclaimers.
<LaserJock> I couldn't install Acrobat Reader in Windows because it ran out of memory
<RichEd> oops ... wrong cut & paste
 * RichEd tries again'
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuClassmatePC
<bdoin> well I have a big doubt, /usr/games/gcompris works now but not /usr/bin/gcompris
<bdoin> I wonder if my /usr/bin/gcompris comes from a make install
<Belutz> RichEd, if we already have the demo unit, can we asked for the image?
<RichEd> Belutz: sure ... add your request to the wiki page, with contact details ... I'll run it past Jason from Intel ...
<bdoin> has someone confirmed the issue with gcompris or my system is unclean ?
<RichEd> You can also mail me directly ... richard_AT_ubuntu.com
<RichEd> Jason will act as the image coordinator
<Belutz> RichEd, thanks
<Belutz> i will keep you and ogra posted about this
<RichEd> ogra / LaserJock : christopher dawson is upset that he did not get his CMPCs today
<RichEd> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1290
<RichEd> check out his intended test list ... very good ... and we should take note and maybe pre-empt some potential wobblies
<LaserJock> interesting
 * ogra_cmpc takes a break until meeting ... 12h in a row is enough ...
<bdoin> by the way, as you are talking about that, I have a classmate and provided a GCompris version of it to Intel.
<RichEd> bdoin: under MS or Linux ?
<bdoin> linux
<bdoin> metasys
<RichEd> ahhh ... okay
<bdoin> there is an issue with the screen size, you need to put it in emulated 800x600 in order to have gcompris strings being readable
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I've run a few things with it kinda ok, but the screen size is a problem
<RichEd> bdoin: we have had some "hassles" with the small screen size ... like not being able to work with many dialogue boxes ... can't get to the Okay button etc
<bdoin> I proposed them gcompris on windows as well but they are reluctant to put free software on windows, no idea why ;)
<RichEd> ogra has a panel applet that compresses the screen image ... I have not see the "view quality" yet
<Belutz> I must hang out in this channel more often :D
<RichEd> bdoin: my kids (5 almost 6 .. and 7 almost  8) have been playing with GCompris under Edubuntu on my test CmPc
<RichEd> from the very first CmPc edubuntu build oliver hacked together at UDS Sevilla
<bdoin> what is a CmPc ?
<RichEd> ClassmatePC ....
<bdoin> ok sorry
 * RichEd gets tired of typing it out :)
<bdoin> so you have GC on the CmPc on Edubuntu ?
<LaserJock> it wouldn't be any good otherwise ;-)
<RichEd> == #edubuntu meeting == 15 mins #ubuntu-meeting == UDS Discussion for Hardy Heron Edubuntu 8.04 ==
<RichEd> == #edubuntu meeting == 5 mins #ubuntu-meeting == UDS Discussion for Hardy Heron Edubuntu 8.04 ==
<LaserJock> one more minute?
<ogra> yes
<RichEd> LaserJock: you asking when ? or asking for a delay ?
<LaserJock> when
<RichEd> nowish
<Kamping_Kaiser> didnt know there was a meeting :|
<RichEd> well today's meeting for us is yesterday for you ... so you are forgiven
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<LaserJock> btw
<LaserJock> I just got word that edubuntu docs are now in bzr on LP
<Kamping_Kaiser> neat
 * Kamping_Kaiser debates the 50 hour checkout
<LaserJock> I think I might try to make a tarball
<LaserJock> I don't know where to put it thought
<LaserJock> *though
<LaserJock> maybe ogra can help me out there
<Kamping_Kaiser> does the space LP provides only work for debs or could you place it there
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think they do have space for projects
<LaserJock> I might see what I can do
 * Kamping_Kaiser heads to LP to see if he can find the bzr
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-hardy
<Kamping_Kaiser> cheers.
<LaserJock> might have to take the .edge out
<bdoin> ogra: after a cleanup and reinstall of GCompris, the official package is fine, python activity works fine. Sorry.
<LaserJock> bdoin: false alarm?
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, works with the edge. should i just checkout the hardy doco?
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: sure, give it a whirl
<ogra> bdoin, np :)
<bdoin> LaserJock: yes, should never trust my installation of gcompris. there have probably been a mixup with my autopackage installation
<Kamping_Kaiser> kgoetz@wesnoth:~/public_html$ bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-hardy
<Kamping_Kaiser> bzr: ERROR: Unknown branch format: 'Bazaar Branch Format 6 (bzr 0.15)\n'
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, 0.15
<Kamping_Kaiser> sigh.
 * Kamping_Kaiser is on 0.11
<LaserJock> shesh, get with the program man, gotta have the latest greatest
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeah yeah :| *heads to backports.org*
 * Kamping_Kaiser grumbles about forced upgrades
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: the bzr guys have a repo for bzr
<LaserJock> works rather nicely
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, i got pointed to packports.org when i asked about it yesterday (i'm running debian)
<LaserJock> I guess that works too
<RichEd> 'night LaserJock and Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, night mate
<LaserJock> good night RichEd
<Kamping_Kaiser> speaking of which , i should get ready to go to work ;)
<LaserJock> I will look forward to a -devel email
<Kamping_Kaiser> bzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-hardy/.bzr/repository/inventory.knit: Bad status line received
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> suppose this will have to be tonights download. later all.
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure who to report that to, so there you all go :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> afk.
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: good night
#edubuntu 2007-10-25
<pianonut> This is my maiden voyage into the world of instant messaging & I have no idea how the system works.
<pianonut> I installed the deb package for xchat-gnome, then xchat and I seem to be broadcasting to this group right now.
<pianonut> Is that correct?
<pianonut> I take it other listeners are informed somehow by their system when a new message has been posted.
<pianonut> Then they may choose to look at the new input or not.  If they do look at the new message, they may or may not respond.  Right?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> pianonut: We see what you type
<sbalneav> And you see what we type :)
<pianonut> That part I know.
<Tirion> Hello! Did anyone have expiriense with LTSP5 in Edubuntu Gutsy?
<Burgundavia> not in gutsy, but I have played with LTSP
<Burgundavia> what is your issue?
<Tirion> I just plan to use it. Will it work correctly with Xeon Quad core?
<Burgundavia> that is a kernel issue. If Ubuntu/Edubuntu runs correctly on it without LTSP, it will work find with it
<Tirion> And one more question. Thin clients need a RAM, isn't it?
<Burgundavia> yes, due to the applications they are running
<Burgundavia> basically, the more RAM the happier you are as a person, but then your server isn't swapping
<Tirion> Thank you, Burgundavia
<RichEd> hi ogra_cmpc
<ogra_cmpc> hey
<RichEd> just checked my tavel details ... 29h30 from my house to boston
<ogra_cmpc> eeek
<ogra_cmpc> mine must be below 13h this time
<RichEd> and could not get any other seats apart from middle of the normal rows
<RichEd> ughh
<ogra_cmpc> 8h flight, 3h trainride plus hanging around at the aitrport
<RichEd> not too bad ..
<ogra_cmpc> but you switch planes, dont you ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all. i'm still getting that error checking out the bzr doco.
<Kamping_Kaiser> kgoetz@wesnoth:~/public_html$ bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-hardy
<Kamping_Kaiser> bzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-hardy/.bzr/repository/inventory.knit: Bad status line received
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyone got a clue?
<ogra_cmpc> ask in #bzr ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, ok, i'll head in there
<ogra_cmpc> they migth know more
 * RichEd wonders if ogra's typing dyslexia tday is accountable to mental fatigue or adult fingers on the little classmate keyboard  
<ogra_cmpc> both i guess :)
 * ogra_cmpc needs another reboot
<Kamping_Kaiser> for the logs: my issues with bzr revolve arround my http-proxy. bypassing the proxy bzr is working
<stgraber> oh, is lists.ubuntu.com laggy today, I answered 5 minutes ago to RichEd's mail and my mail isn't on the list yet :)
<stgraber> usually it takes 5seconds :)
<DeMoNSeEd> release announcements come via there?
 * Kamping_Kaiser wonders how big the hardy docs will be
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: A4 ?
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, all mailing list mail comes via there ... (including the announcement lists indeed)
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, yay for standards
<sbalneav> Morning all
<DeMoNSeEd> hey ogra
<DeMoNSeEd> how ya been
<jsgotangco> RichEd-1 hi
<musashi1> i'm still somewhat of a noob and i'm trying to installed gutsy server (on new HP proliant ML 350) and the install fails at "build chroot". any suggestions as to why and how to fix? just start the install again? or is it a known issue?
<musashi1> s/installed/install
<i> Hi, anyone around to answer questions
<i> ?
<sbalneav> i: yes
<sbalneav> musashi1: Define "fail"?  Does it give you an error message?
<i_> OK, have just recently upgraded (actually, fresh install) to Gutsy...
<i_> Feisty server was more or less working fine
<i_> Problem I'm having now is that I plug a USB flash drive into the server and it recognises fine ... but plug the same drive into any of the thin clients and no response
<i_> Nothing in server's mtab or /media
<sbalneav> Try creating a /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf that contains:
<sbalneav> [Default]
<sbalneav>    LOCALDEV=True
<sbalneav> See if that makes a difference.
<i_> OK, trying ...
<bddebian> Heya
<i_> Nope, nothing
<musashi1> sbalneav: yes, i don't recall the exact warning but it's a nice red screen saying to the effect "installing failed at step build ltsp chroot you can try again" trying again also fails --> returns to error screen.
<musashi1> sbalneav: i did just start the install again from the beginning so i'll see what happens
<sbalneav> i_: Did you restart the terminal?
<i_> Yes, 2 terminals, neither worked
<sbalneav> You might want to run through: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
<i_> OK
<i_> Does it matter that lsmod | grep fuse returns with a 1 as the final digit rather than a 3 as shown on that page?
<sbalneav> No, just so long as it returns the line.
<sbalneav> That means the module's loaded
<i_> OK, still going ...
<i_> All good up to step 4 ... continuing
<i_> OK, having a problem @ Step 1: Setting a root password in the LTSP chroot
<i_> Set the root password successfully but then can't log in on the text console of the terminal, even on the server - any ideas?
<i_> Username is "root", right?
<i_> sbalneav: Hello?
<sbalneav> right
<i_> OK, so can't login at the console - any idea what the problem might be?
<sbalneav> Did you rebuild the image with ltsp-update-image?
<i_> At what stage was I supposed to do that?
<sbalneav> After the password change
<sbalneav> Up on the server
<i_> How do I issue that command?
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-image :)
<sbalneav> as root
<i_> Sorry!
<i_> OK to sudo, or do I have to chroot?
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-image
<RichEd-1> jsgotangco: sorry dude leavin for airport
<RichEd-1> bye guys
<i_> OK, doing that now - 27%
<jsgotangco> bye
<RichEd-1> sbalneav ogra see you in boston
<i_> It's still saying that the login is incorrect...
<sbalneav> Have you rebooted since you rebuilt the image?
<i_> No - shall I do that?
<sbalneav> yes
<i_> sbalneav: I've rebooted and I still can't login as root on the console.
<sbalneav> ok, here's the complete overview of the procedure.
<sbalneav> on the server
<sbalneav> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> passwd
<sbalneav> <enter password once>
<sbalneav> <enter password again>
<sbalneav> exit
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-image
<sbalneav> wait
<sbalneav> when done, reboot
<sbalneav> ctl-alt-f1
<sbalneav> text login as root/password
<i_> OK, that's exactly what I did before but I'm in the process of doing it again (updating image @ 18%)
<i_> Image @ 76%
<i_> Rebooting ...
<i_> sbalneav: Once again, I cannot login as root from the console ...
<i_> Changing the password is fine - don't worry, it is the password for root that is being changed
<i_> It just doesn't work from the console
<musashi1> okay, build ltsp chroot failed again. is there anything i can check to see what it might be? i think i will also burn a new cd
<sbalneav> i_: So, on the thin client, you're pressing control-alt-f1
<sbalneav> getting a text login screen
<i_> No, I've done all of this on the server
<i_> Tried on the client earlier
<sbalneav> Well, that's wrong
<i_> Same problem
<sbalneav> you do it on the thin client
<sbalneav> on the thin client, control-alt-f1
<sbalneav> login as root/password
<i_> OK, it's working on the thin-client now
<i_> Apologies for that.
<stgraber> ogra, ogra_cmpc: Can you accept a mail I sent to the mailing-list with the wrong mail account or shall I resend ?
<ogra_cmpc> which ml?
<stgraber> edubuntu-devel
<ogra_cmpc> ok
<stgraber> looks like I'm subscribed with @stgraber.org instead of @ubuntu.com, I'm changing that now
<stgraber> argh, in fact it seems that the mail address is correct so why hasn't the mail reached the ML (my SMTP server logs say it was correctly queue on lists.ubuntu.com MX ...)
<ogra> i dont see anything in tewh queue
<stgraber> ok, I'll send it again and if it doesn't show up in the hour I'll ping a sysadmin
<i_> sbalneav: OK, stuck @ Step 3: Did the ltsp udev rules fire? ... Checked flash drive in server and it shows up as sdb1 ... just in case, I'll repartition it anyway and see if that helps
<ogra> yeah, looks like something thats worth an rt ticket
<juliux> stgraber, lists.ubuntu.com ist very slow this days
<stgraber> yes, but someone sent a mail at 16:30 and it's now on the list, mine was sent at 14:00
<agente87> hola
<agente87> una pregunta
<agente87> english betterÂ¿?
<agente87> i want to use the same account with my pupils, but firefox, said that i have to close the program to load it again from another computer
<agente87> how can i fix that
<agente87> ?Â¿
<ogra_cmpc> you cant
<ogra_cmpc> firefox, openoffice and gnome really freak out if several processes use teh same config
<agente87> aha
<ogra_cmpc> create a user per client
<ogra_cmpc> or so
<agente87> and, using another web browser?Â¿
<ogra_cmpc> not sure if there are any that can cope with that
<agente87> puff, the problem is my pupils will not remember user and password
<ogra_cmpc> use autologin ... its a bit work to set that up for every single client though
<sbalneav> So, use autologin
<agente87> ok, but the idea is to have a different desktop for every level
<agente87> with specific icons for each one
<sbalneav> What do you mean, a different desktop for every level?
<agente87> yes i use edubuntu
<agente87> so, i have exercisses for 3 grade in primary, prepared with icons in the desktop
<agente87> and a account called "3grade"
<sbalneav> Well, you can't run multiple terminals off of one login.
<agente87> the log in by that account and uses the same made desktop
<sbalneav> Gnome, openoffice, and firefox do not like that.
<agente87> aha
<agente87> and, may i use the same desktop for a group
<agente87> ?Â¿
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Well, you could set up a group in sabayon
<sbalneav> but you'll still need individual userids
<agente87> is that gentoo?Â¿
<sbalneav> no
<sbalneav> Sabayon's a tool to allow you to customize desktops
<sbalneav> It can be installed in edubuntu
<sbalneav> but you can't get away from creating multiple userids
<i_> sbalneav: Step 2 (dmesg) shows that the client recognises the plug event but the ltsp udev rules don't seem to be firing; I've reformatted the flash drive twice, once using fdisk and mkdosfs as suggested in your page, and also using GParted to see if that helped ... no result
<i_> This flash drive used to be recognised fine by both server and clients, when running the Feisty server
<musashi1> bryang: the other console is empty (i.e. no infor or error messages).
<musashi1> bryang: i am going to reboot and check the cd for errors
<musashi1> bryang: wait, f4 has a bunch of output
<sbalneav> i_: is there a /var/run/drives?
<i_> Yes (on the client)
<musashi1> bryang: ltsp-client-builder failed with error code 1
<musashi1> there is a bunch of other "stuff" there. some about packeage doesn't exist - skipping
<sbalneav> is there any subdir underneath /var/run/drives
<musashi1> one about siocsifadder device doesn't exist. i have no idea what that means :)
<sbalneav> musashi1: Something's wrong with your network interface
<musashi1> sbalneav: any idea what? the dhcp part went off without a hitch. are we talking bad nic or something else?
<sbalneav> No idea
<i_> sbalneav: There are 4 (cdrom, floppy, and 2 scsidisks)
<i_> sbalneav: Interesting result when I try to attempt Step 4: Can you manually issue a mount command? ...
<i_> The command results in attempting to connect to the server but when I'm asked to supply the root password, permission is denied...
<ogra_cmpc> you need to be logged in on the GUI screen for that
<ogra_cmpc> else teh ssh tunnel isnt established and iut asks for teh root pw
<i_> I'm already logged into the GUI ... just found one of the problems... changed root password using sudo passwd root and now granted permission but ...
<ogra_cmpc> nooo
<i_> As mentioned in Step 4, it's resulted in an error ...
<ogra_cmpc> there is no root user involved anywhere
<ogra_cmpc> if you get asked for a root PW the tunnel isnt working
<i_> Sorry ogra, I meant I changed the root password on the server ...
<i_> OK, here's the error I got:
<i_> ogra_cmpc: Where exactly am I supposed to issue the command from?
<ogra_cmpc> the console of teh client
<i_> Ok, just tried that and it says ssh: server: Name or service not known
<ogra_cmpc> but kdm is running ?
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> ldm
<ogra_cmpc> and you are properly logged in through it
<i_> How can I check?
<ogra_cmpc> ps ax|grep ldm
<ogra_cmpc> on the client console
<ogra_cmpc> its the default login manager
<ogra_cmpc> and one of teh core parts to make ltspfs work
<i_> OK, got a standard result for ldm
<ogra_cmpc> whats a standard result ?
<ogra_cmpc> is it running or not?
<i_> 7218 pts/2     S+     0:00 grep ldm
<ogra_cmpc> no ldm running
<ogra_cmpc> thats your problem then
<i_> So what do I do now
<ogra_cmpc> without the ssh socket ldm creates localdev wont work
<ogra_cmpc> well, teh question is how you got in that state
<i_> OK, I was originally running Feisty - everything was more or less OK
<ogra_cmpc> did you tweak around in lts.conf ?
<i_> No - not on Feisty at all
<ogra_cmpc> so are you on feisty or gutsy ?
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand
<i_> Just tweaked the lts.conf in /var/... today for the first time - but never had flash drives working since upgrading to Gutsy
<ogra_cmpc> how did you upgrade ?
<musashi1> bryang: cd checks out okay. assuming that test works.
<ogra_cmpc> did you properly rebuild the client root with ltsp-build-client ?
<i_> Used the alternate CD first ... but didn't allow it to download new packages from the net
<i_> That resulted in server that could only host 6-8 clients - and very poorly at that
<i_> The remainder of the clients wouldn't even "see" the DHCP server when attempting to connect via the network
<sbalneav> Something's wrong with something
<sbalneav> I run 50 clients off my server.
<sbalneav> One of my servers, I should say
<i_> No, but now I did a fresh install of Gutsy and all 19 clients are working fine, except for this flash drive problem
<sbalneav> Are the users members of the fuse group?
<i_> When I say working fine, I mean they all connect and login - haven't really used it long enough to see if there are any other problems
<i_> All users are members of the fuse group - checked that as per your instructions
<ogra_cmpc> so thats a fresh gutsy install atm ?
<ogra_cmpc> or an upgraded one ?
<i_> Yes, that's a fresh install - there's only one thing I messed around with
<i_> To save the original user accounts, I made a backup of /etc ... I already had /home on another partition ...
<ogra_cmpc> are you using ldap ?
<i_> When I rebuilt the server with the fresh Gutsy install ...
<i_> No LDAP
<ogra_cmpc> well, check that the number for teh fuse group wstill matches whats set in /etc/passwd and /etc/grou would be my first guess
<i_> ... OK, checking...
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, but still, no ldm is a bad thing and thats surely not caused by teh servers passwd file
<i_> OK fuse group ID: 117 ...
<ogra_cmpc> and /dev/fuse has teh right perms
<ogra_cmpc> (owned by the fuse group)
<i_> No, owned by root and group = fuse
<ogra_cmpc> good
<ogra_cmpc> thats all fine then
<ogra_cmpc> so if ldm isnt running, i wonder how you log in on your clients
<i_> Pretty quickly, actually!  Faster than in Feisty...
<ogra_cmpc> i assume you had a graphical login window
<i_> Yes
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<sbalneav> What does the date and time look like in the bottom right?
<ogra_cmpc> do you have SCREEN_07=startx or something similar werid in your lts.conf?
<i_> Of the client login screen?
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<i_> 25.10. 18:47
<ogra_cmpc> no ip ?
<i_> Sorry, IP is there as well 192.168.0.250
<sbalneav> yeah, ldm's running
<ogra_cmpc> and (ltsp) or so in the front
<i_> Yes ltsp (and not the name of the server as it used to be in Feisty)
<ogra_cmpc> good, then ldm is running
<ogra_cmpc> i wonder why you didnt see it in teh clients processlist
<i_> I'll try again
<i_> 7723 pts/2    S+     0:00 grep ldm
<sbalneav> Where are you running this command?
<i_> Terminal on the client
<sbalneav> In the text screen? ctl-alt-f1?
<i_> Not console (I mean Ctrl-Alt-F1)
<i_> Sorry, I mean I'm running it from Applicatons-Terminal
<ogra_cmpc> nah
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> that's wrong
<ogra_cmpc> hehy
<sbalneav> you need to do it on the ctl-alt-f1
<i_> OK ...
<i_> As root?
<sbalneav> when you run it on the gnome-terminal, you're on the server
<sbalneav> since the gnome terminal's running on the server, you're looking at server processes
<sbalneav> everything you do on the graphic login is running on the server, NOT on the thin client itself.
<sbalneav> as root, yes.
<i_> OK, gettinga lot of output, what are you looking for?
<sbalneav> ldm vt7 :6
<i_> Right, got that
<sbalneav> ok, so you're running ldm
<i_> Good stuff
<i_> I've noticed that the fuse group isn't listed in /etc/passwd
<sbalneav> that's because it's a group
<sbalneav> so it's listed in /etc/group
<sbalneav> so, on the thin client
<sbalneav> in ctl-alt-f1
<i_> yes ...
<sbalneav> you should have a /var/run/ldm_socket something file, yes?
<i_> checking ..
<highvoltage> hey sbalneav. I'm having trouble figuring something out, how does the client know that it should boot from the 386.img file? the only reference I can get to it is in /etc/inetd.conf. not in dhcpd.conf or pxelinux.cfg.
<i_> Yes
<sbalneav> highvoltage: it depends what port you go to, what image you get
<i_> ldm_ocket_vt7_192.168.0.254
<sbalneav> so 2000 is i386
<i_> ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254
<sbalneav> ok, so on c-a-f1,
<sbalneav> if you do a:
<sbalneav> ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 ltspfsmounter /tmp add
<sbalneav> what happens?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: aaaaaaaaah
<i_> Tried to write ...
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how do the clients know that they should look at port 2000? is it built into the kernel?
<i_> fuse: failed to exec fusermount: Permission denied
<i_> Error: /tmp/.s1081-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> failed to exec fusermount: Permission denied
<sbalneav> on the server
<sbalneav> as a user
<i_> On the client as a user
<sbalneav> do an "id"
<sbalneav> either or
<sbalneav> paste the results
<i_> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> on the graphical login
<sbalneav> logged in as a regular user
<i_> To make this a little easier, I'm just going to install XChat on the server so that I can paste the result
<i_> I'm using my own laptop for this so far
<i_> (I mean this chat, not the rest of the stuff!)
<s1081> Right this is i_ here:
<s1081> Here's the result:
<s1081> s1081@BSCL02-SERVER:~$ id
<s1081> uid=1081(s1081) gid=1082(s1081) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),21(fax),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),29(audio),30(dip),46(plugdev),104(scanner),117(fuse),1082(s1081)
<sbalneav> grep fuse /etc/passwd
<sbalneav> grep fuse /etc/group, sorry
<s1081> s1081@BSCL02-SERVER:~$  grep fuse /etc/group
<s1081> fuse:x:117:s1001,s1002,s1003,s1009,s1014,s1016,s1004,s1006,s1008,s1012,s1013,s1015,s1017,s1005,s1011,s1018,s1019,s1020,s1021,s1022,s1010,s1024,s1007,s1023,s1025,s1026,s1027,s1035,s1029,s1037,s1039,s1030,s1031,s1032,s1034,s1038,s1036,s1040,s1028,s1041,s1042,s1043,s1044,s1045,s1046,s1047,s1048,s1049,s1050,s1033,s1051,s1052,s1053,s1054,s1055,s1056,s1057,s1058,s1060,s1059,s1061,s1062,s1063,s1064,s1065,s1066,s1067,s1072,s1068,s1070,s1074,s1078,s1075,s1071,s1073,s1
<s1081> 076,s1077,s1079,s1080,s1069,s1081,s1082
<bryang> musashi1, sorry, just back now, catching up on sb
<sbalneav> You running ldap or something?
<s1081> No
<s1081> Perhaps the problems lies in how I transferred the user accounts over to Gutsy from Feisty ...
<sbalneav> ls -la /bin/fusermount
<s1081> I backed up the default files when I did the fresh install of Gutsy ... and then I copied over the files I had from Feisty (i.e. /etc/passwd, etc)
<s1081> s1081@BSCL02-SERVER:~$ ls -la /bin/fusermount
<s1081> -rwsr-xr-- 1 root messagebus 19668 2007-09-19 03:01 /bin/fusermount
<sbalneav> yup
<sbalneav> what you did was bad
<sbalneav> Don't copy the whole file
<sbalneav> extract out YOUR users and groups, and leave the systems stuff (uid/gids < 500) as is
<sbalneav> as they get added, changed and removed.
<sbalneav> Your fuse group is now different
<sbalneav> and that's your problem
<sbalneav> You, of course, saved the ones that come with gutsy, right? :)
<s1081> OK, like I said, I've got the original files that were present when I first installed Gutsy ... I'll use the data in there and do what you said
<sbalneav> yeah, what twigged me into it is, on my gutsy, fuse is 118
<s1081> So to be precise: We're talking about /etc/passwd; /etc/shadow; /etc/groups ...
<sbalneav> right.
<s1081> Any other files?
<s1081> I should look out for?
<sbalneav> well, those are the only ones to bring over.
<sbalneav> How much did you copy across?
<sbalneav> just those 3?
<s1081> Yes, just those
<s1081> Just out of interest, what was the correct way of doing the transfer
<s1081> ?
<sbalneav> Well, here's what I do:
<sbalneav> I make sure all my groups and users start at 1000
<sbalneav> so what I do is:
<sbalneav> make a copy of the existing
<sbalneav> sort them, so it's all in numeric order
<sbalneav> pull across all the stuff that's 1000 or greater from passwd, group
<sbalneav> shadow, I just manually have to make sure there's nothing system-y mixed in with the regular users.
<sbalneav> how many users do you have?
<s1081> Just over 80
<sbalneav> easy, then
<sbalneav> I manage 250 :)
<s1081> Now, the group file looks a little tricky ...
<sbalneav> yeah, put back the origs, then just add your users on to the end.
<s1081> (Done the passwd file)
<sbalneav> as new features get added, new system uids/gids get added/removed, so copying the whole thing's not guarenteed to work.
<s1081> In the Feisty group file, a lot of my users are members of groups with ID < 1000
<s1081> I'm going to have to manually edit each of these lines afterwards, right?
<s1081> Obviously, I can easily copy and paste their primary group details (> 1000)
<sbalneav> Sure, but in the ling run, youmight want to get them all greater than 1000
<s1081> By the way, fuse ID in my /etc/group file is 106 - is that OK?
<sbalneav> then you could do cool things like:
<sbalneav> awk '$3 > 999 {print $0}' /etc/passwd
<sbalneav> which would show you all "your" entries
<sbalneav> sorry:
<sbalneav> awk -F: '$3 > 999 {print $0}' /etc/passwd
<sbalneav> as for the fuse group, if that's the one that was there from the fresh install, it's fine.
<sbalneav> when you look at /bin/fusermount is should be root:fuse
<s1081> But I'll have to add all the users to the group, on that line, right?
<sbalneav> right.
<s1081> And for all the other groups they used to belong to?
<sbalneav> yes
<s1081> So waht
<s1081> So what's the quickest, most efficient way of doing that?
<sbalneav> Me? I'd write a script.
<sbalneav> so something like:
<sbalneav> (off the top of my head)
<sbalneav> for ((I=1000; I<1099; I++)); do
<sbalneav>   adduser s$I fuse
<sbalneav>   adduser s$I someothergroup
<sbalneav>   etc
<sbalneav> done
<s1081> OK, that's fairly straightforward but
<sbalneav> or, do it from the results in awk:
<musashi1> s1081, bryang wrote a nice script for adding users. maybe could be tweaked for what you need.
<s1081> There's gotta be an easier way for the average teacher who wants to upgrade his server to Gutsy ...
<musashi1> s1081: yeah, or one trying to install one :)
<sbalneav> Sure, the gui manager
<s1081> What, create all of the user accounts all over again, one by one?
<sbalneav> System->Administration->Users and groups
<sbalneav> Beleive it or not, that's what a lot of people do.
<s1081> The only other idea I had was to write a script to use the useradd, groupadd commands to set it all up
<sbalneav> That's another good way.
<s1081> As in, forget about what I had from Feisty and just start fresh in Gutsy
<sbalneav> A lot of teachers also use LDAP, and/or active drecktory, so they just re-attach to that.
<bryang> or better yet have auth via a directory of some sort
<ogra_cmpc> that will come at one point
<s1081> OK, so what's with the Users and Groups that it doesn't sort the users alphabetically?
<ogra_cmpc> ubuntu server is working on it
<ogra_cmpc> once they are done we'll inherit it
<ogra_cmpc> (likely to happen in hardy)
<s1081> Right, I'm done editing the files - I'll just reboot and see how it all goes
<i_> Or do I not need to reboot?
<sbalneav> Shouldn't need to.
<sbalneav> what's the ownership of /bin/fusermount look like now?
<i_> Alright, client is rebooting at least ...
<musashi1> bryang: would it be worth trying the network install you mentioned?
<bryang> musashi1: not really, just references the same bits
<musashi1> okay
<bryang> what is current state  of server
<musashi1> just looking for options
<musashi1> waiting for me to give it something to do :)
<musashi1> installed failed, checked cd, now just waiting
<i_> Ahh, it hasn't worked - yet, at least
<i_> I'm going to try to reboot the server as well
<bryang> musashi1: so maybe do the install again, then at failure point, we can do some t/s on alt consoles
<i_> But the group details look fine, though
<musashi1> bryang: okay, will fire it up again.
 * bryang wishes you had the iLO port going to make this easier ;)
<musashi1> that would be cool
<musashi1> but behind the firewall
<musashi1> well, installation's away...
<ogra_cmpc> musashi1: if thats a normal install thats failing it would probably make sense to keep /var/log/syslog from the installer environment and attach it to a bug ;)
<musashi1> i moved to a different nic. someone said it might be a networking issue so worth a try
<ogra_cmpc> what exactly does happen ?
<musashi1> ogra_cmpc: i'll try that
<musashi1> ogra_cmpc: it fails to install ltsp chroot
<musashi1> i don't recall the exact warning but it's a nice red screen saying to the effect "installing failed at step build ltsp chroot you can try again" trying again also fails --> returns to error screen.
<bryang> ltsp-build-client error
<ogra_cmpc> thats the released iso ?
<musashi1> right
<musashi1> to both
<ogra_cmpc> note there were bugs up to RC
<musashi1> downloaded just the other day
<ogra_cmpc> you can watch the client build process on console 4 while the progressbas sits at the 50% MARK
<ogra_cmpc> just hit alt-f4
<ogra_cmpc> that should revel at least the error
<ogra_cmpc> note that moaning about pty not mounted and dbconf warnings are normal there
<musashi1> checked that last time -->  ltsp-client-builder failed with error code 1
<ogra_cmpc> *debconf
<ogra_cmpc> well, the stuff that causes that error would be miore intresting :)
<ogra_cmpc> it must be above in the log
<musashi1> i'll try and find that when/if it fails again
<cberlo> Hi folks.  got some speed issues I'm seeing in Edgy thin clients.  I think it relates to DRI, and I'm wondering if anyone knows how to activate this feature on thin clients with Edubuntu?
<cberlo> ogra: Can't use scp-remote; on Edgy this command wasn't implemented yet!
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: you need to install the linux-restricted-modules package in teh chroot and follow the usual procedure to enable binary drivers
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: oh, right
<ogra_cmpc> edgy is ancient :)
<cberlo> The usual procedure?  As in list it in the lts.conf?
<ogra_cmpc> NO AS DESCRIBED ON TEH WIKI
<ogra_cmpc> OOPS
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Hey, it's still supported!  :)  But I'd love to move to Gutsy.  Very tempting, but I need everything stable and tested....
 * ogra_cmpc curses the tiny keyboard of teh classmate
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Where on the wiki?  Didn't come across that...
<ogra_cmpc> search for binary drivers
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Thanks!  Will do!
<ogra_cmpc> note that you will only be able to support either nvidia or ait ... both at the same time doesnt work
<ogra_cmpc> *ati
<ogra_cmpc> they both replace the GL libs with their own versions
<cberlo> Ummm...  This is an Intel 810 chipset...
<ogra_cmpc> that should just work out of teh box
<musashi1> ogra_cmpc: i can't make heads or tails of all that log info. is there a way to output it to a file that i can paste somewhere?
<cberlo> So I should be getting DRI already?  I specified i810 in the lts.conf as the default driver.
<ogra_cmpc> musashi1: its savede to /var/log/syslog in teh installer
<ogra_cmpc> on console2 you can start a shell
<musashi1> but from a console how do i save it to say a flash drive?
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: yes, but it could be that we didnt install teh mesa dri libs in teh client chroot back then
<ogra_cmpc> you should have teh kernel related stuff running
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Okay.  So which package is that in and/or where can I check to see if that's in there?
<ogra_cmpc> (i.e. DRI)
<ogra_cmpc> something with mesa and dri in teh package name
<ogra_cmpc> i have no briowser around
<ogra_cmpc> so i cant look up stuff for you
<cberlo> orgra:  Got this one in there:  libgl1-mesa-dri
<ogra_cmpc> packages.ubuntu.com might help
<ogra_cmpc> sounds about right
<ogra_cmpc> install that in teh chroot
<cberlo> It's already there...  :(
<ogra_cmpc> look for mesa glx as well
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Yep, that one's in there, too.
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, no idea then
<cberlo> Nothing else I'd have to do to enable DRI on the thin client?  It should "just work"?
<ogra_cmpc> for i810 ? yes
<ogra_cmpc> i didnt have any i180 cards during edgy development so i cant say much about ltsp and GL support there
<ogra_cmpc> i know compiz works out of teh box here on gutsy on teh i810 client i have now
<cberlo> Alright.  Guess I'll just have to play with it a bit and see if I can get it to work properly.    Wait -- you're using compiz on a thin client??
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, its incredibly fast
<cberlo> Well, guess I'll see if I can load up a test server here.  That sounds like it would fix that issue for me.  Running a Windows program on WINE and video update speed is glacial.  Runs great on my laptop here, though, so it's not a problem with WINE/Linux/good video.
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Vanilla edubuntu install will work "out of the box"?
<cberlo> gutsy, that is.
<ogra_cmpc> yes
<ogra_cmpc> yep
<i_> sbalneav: ogra_cmpc: It's finally working - thanks for all your help - greatly appreciated ... I'm giving up for the day; You guys deserve gold medals - keep up the good work.
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<i_> Don't think you've seen the last of me ... now that I know where you guys are ...
<effie_jayx> ogra_cmpc,  what's the wilress card again?
<effie_jayx> wireless
<ogra_cmpc> ??
<effie_jayx> ogra_cmpc,  the one the classmate brings
<ogra_cmpc> ralink
<effie_jayx> you said it was not intel
<ogra_cmpc> rt73usb based
<effie_jayx> ogra_cmpc, thanks
<musashi1> bryang: any suggestions on how to get the log to you (or anyone else)? it failed again
<musashi1> bryang: could it be an acpi issue??
<ogra_cmpc> musashi1: do you have an USB key you could store it on?
<musashi1> yes
<ogra_cmpc> so use that one :)
<musashi1> but how do you mount a usb in a console
<ogra_cmpc> with the mount command
<ogra_cmpc> plug it in ... wait a second .... type: dmesg
<musashi1> will fdisk -l tell me the dev name?
<ogra_cmpc> at the end of teh output you should see teh device name
<musashi1> hold on, it's in another room
<cberlo> 8.04 is going to be pretty nice, I'm guessing.  LTS, feature-rich, well-tested....  Looks like things are coming along nicely for Edubuntu.  It may just have a future in my school board...
<musashi1> great now my stupid win box won't read the flash drive.
<shriphani> musashi1, ext3 fs or something like that ?
<musashi1> well it was a fat32 drive
<shriphani> ok..
<musashi1> i think i fried it somehow. my ubuntu lappy won't read it either
<shriphani> care to do a tune2fs -l <device> ?
<ogra_cmpc> dont forget to unmount ;)
<ogra_cmpc> if you unplugged it without unmounting, data can be corrupt
<shriphani> yeah.
<shriphani> i did that when I was using pcbsd.
<shriphani> it refused to mount, had to use debugfs to kick out 'recover_needed
<shriphani> or something like that from the features of the drive.
<musashi1> it wont unmount
<musashi1> invalid argument
<shriphani> the command is umount
<musashi1> right
<musashi1> i did umount /dev/sda
<musashi1> wrong?
<shriphani> umount <dir where device is mounted>
<musashi1> ah, right
 * musashi1 wishes he was more cli literate :(
<musashi1> uh, any idea where it's mounting? /mnt is empty
<ogra_cmpc> where you told it to :)
<ogra_cmpc> (in the mount command)
<shriphani> did you mount in the first place ?
<musashi1> no. thought it auto mounted
<shriphani> ubuntu's udev i think mounts it in /media/##
<musashi1> there is no /media
<musashi1> it a busybox shell
<musashi1> if that matters
<shriphani> try doing blkid
<shriphani> i mean typing blkid
<musashi1> okay, created dir /mnt/usb and mounted. cp file to it. verified it's there. still can't umount
<musashi1> used umount /mnt/usb
<musashi1> says invalid argument
<musashi1> oops, was still in that dir. d'oh
<musashi1> for your reading pleasure  :) http://dpaste.com/23351/
<musashi1> that's the whole log
<musashi1> free virtual beer to who ever can pinpoint the problem :)
<scrapbunny> Is there anyone here that can help an edubuntu newbie with thin client questions?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: around ?
<scrapbunny> i am trying to set up edubuntu 7.10 thin clients
<stgraber> ogra, ogra_cmpc: the ML still doesn't like me, can I mail you and you forward it to the list ?
<musashi1> line 6237 has the failure for build-ltsp
 * musashi1 wonders what line 6235 means
<musashi1> could it be a bad CD issue? i'm going to burn a new one and try (burning on ubuntu this time)
<musashi1> starting install again with new CD. my laptop would only burn at 28x though. hope that isn't too fast. in the past it tended to cause problems.
<musashi1> this line from syslog is puzzling --> "tsp-client-builder: ltsp-build-client options: --mirror file:///cdrom --security-mirror none --skipimage"
<musashi1> then "(process:25542): SIOCSIFADDR: No such device"
<musashi1> and then failure --> "WARNING **: Configuring 'ltsp-client-builder' failed with error code 1"
<musashi1> bryang: if this fails again i'm going to cry
<bryang> musashi1: hmm, that line 6235 looks like it was called incorrectly (and some of those options are not in the --help output)
<bryang> at least on my running system
<bryang> try grabbing this log next time
<bryang> /var/log/ltsp-server-build.log
<bryang> since that is where output goes according to the ltsp-server.postinst script
<bryang> fwiw, ltsp-build-client is called with no options, so ignore that assessment ;)
 * musashi1 cries, screams, puts fist through wall
<sbalneav> You're not actually giving us any information on what your network is like.
<musashi1> what would you like to know?
<sbalneav> Maybe you could tell us a little bit about your network, internet access, what the machine is, how many nics you've got in the machine, how much ram, what kind of processor, you know.  Information :)
<musashi1> there is no network connected yet, except for the uplink via dhcp
<bryang> sys = dual zeon, 4GB RAM, 3 NIC, 3x160GB RAID5 LUN
<musashi1> well, there is internet and the server does get a dhcp IP, machine is a hp proliant 350 with 1 on board nic and two others 4gb of ram 2 xeon dual core cpus. some of this info was supplied way above :)
 * musashi1 too slow
<bryang> model = HP ml350
<sbalneav> So, there's 3 onboard nics
<bryang> true
<sbalneav> I didn't see it.
<sbalneav> Have you tried disabling in bios all the nics that arent used?
<musashi1> on one the mobo, two in pci slots (right bryang?)
<musashi1> sbalneav: no
<bryang> pci-express slots, but yes
<sbalneav> They're in pci slots?
<sbalneav> Maybe try yanking them, since the failure you're getting is a network related one.
<bryang> worth a try musashi1, I haven't done any installs on pci-x nic systems
<musashi1> okay
<bryang> and worst case can swap some for those ;)
<musashi1> okay, yanked and trying again...
<bryang> sbalneav: you'll notice that all three NICS were found during bootup by hw-detect.hotplug
<sbalneav> (process:25542): SIOCSIFADDR: No such device" means some interface address wasn't found.
<sbalneav> We've tested on one nic and two nic systems
<sbalneav> Maybe we've got a bug that causes it to fail on 3 nics
<sbalneav> or, maybe something in the kernel doesn't like one of the cards
 * bryang sees light turn on ;)
<sbalneav> or, maybe some udev rule doesn't like 3 nics
<sbalneav> or who knows.
<bryang> fwiw, I did install feisty on a three nic system (so may in fact be a new issue)
<sbalneav> What I *do* know is, neither the machine, or the edubuntu machine will respond do crying, screaming, or fists in plasterboard. :) So, we'll try this.
 * bryang appreciates the help, for sure
<sbalneav> And maybe this won't work either, but then that'll be another datapoint to add to the graph :)
<musashi1> sbalneav: machine won't respond but makes me feel better. i've been at this for 6 hours now :)
<bryang> sbalneav, it does look like possibly some NIC re-ordering is happening throughout the install
<sbalneav> Entirely possible.
<bryang> musashi1, was the log posted from when you did an install from one of the PCI NICs ?
<musashi1> bryang: i think so
<sbalneav> brb
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Finally back from installing a test server here.  From a fresh load, I'm trying to connect a Dell GX100 over PXE/MBA (the one with the i810 video card I need to work with) and not getting any X at all.  Haven't even logged into the system once since installing.  Suggestions?
<musashi1> sbalneav: if this works i owe you a virtual beer...or maybe bryang does :)
 * musashi1 crosses fingers. installastion's away
<bryang> musashi1, do you get the option to go to next step of installation ?
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: could be bug 149006
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149006 in ltsp "ltsp does not configure xorg.conf correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149006
<ogra_cmpc> create a /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra_cmpc> and make sure to have X_COLOR_DEPTH=24 in there
<ogra_cmpc> if it doesnt work with 24, try 16
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: ??
<RichEd> hi ogra ...
<ogra_cmpc> shouldnt you be in the air ?
<RichEd> yep ... international lounge at johannesburg airport
<ogra_cmpc> trying th enew louge card ?
<RichEd> thanks to the new lounge card
<RichEd> indeed
<ogra_cmpc> heh, snap
<RichEd> free beer (as in free beer) ... snacks ... comfy chairs ... AND ... drum roll ....
<RichEd> tdrrrrrrrrr
<RichEd> smoking lounge
 * ogra_cmpc dances wildly
<cberlo> I have to make a new compressed image after?
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: not if you use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<RichEd> and of course ... internet access :)
<ogra_cmpc> indeed
<ogra_cmpc> wow, that makes travveling a lot easier
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Alright, I'll give it a go.
 * ogra_cmpc wished he had had that card back in warsaw
<RichEd> me too in a number of crappy airports ...
<RichEd> i guess warsaw executive lounge may have been as styling as say ... a small german village bus station ;)
<ogra_cmpc> lol, yes
<ogra_cmpc> i mamnageed my first successfull install btw ... i'll write a small gui tool for that during travel ... i still like the principle of the squashfs :) ....
<cberlo> Hey, I see GUI!  :)
<ogra_cmpc> so that way the image will only be 650M
<musashi1> bryang: next step? you mean after failure on the chroot stuff? i didn't try. figured failure == failure
<ogra_cmpc> and be installable from any kind of USB device
<cberlo> ogra_cmpc: Okay, now that I'm Gutsy and have GUI, what do I need to get DRI?
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: congrats ... (i think that bug justifies a stable release upgrade it hits many ppl)
<ogra_cmpc> cberlo: try to enable desktop effects in teh appearance settings
<cberlo> Okay
<cberlo> Desktop Effects could not be enabled.
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<cberlo> Which, I am gonna guess probably means my card is too wimpy to pull this off?
<ogra_cmpc> well, i dont know if there are i810 cards that are not dri capoable
<ogra_cmpc> the ones i had in my hands all were
<ogra_cmpc> but that were pretty recent ones
<cberlo> Is there a way I can do something like "lspci" on the thin client?
 * RichEd waves to ogra ... heading to flight #2 ... may chat to you from schipol
 * ogra_cmpc waves
<cberlo> Is it "X_SERVER" or "XSERVER" to set default server?
<ogra_cmpc> no unde5rscore
<ogra_cmpc> try the intel server btw, thats probably better
<cberlo> Okay.  Thanks.  I'll play with it more tomorrow and let you know how it works out!  :)
<musashi1> sbalneav: bryang no failure this time but now with only 1 nic i get a different msg (no interface for ltsp dhcpd config found). install is continuing.
<musashi1> guess it didn't like the pcie nics or didn't like 3.
<sbalneav> That's fine, so long as it completes, then we can fix up the nic and the dhcpd afterwards.
<bryang> yupper, agreed
<musashi1> success!! i now have a thin client server with 1 nic :) rebooting.
<musashi1> the desktop has landed :)
<bryang> schweet
<musashi1> can i put one of the nics back to see if it likes pcie?
<bryang> sure
<musashi1> will it try to configure it?
<bryang> we know how to get back here ... now ;)
<musashi1> on a reboot that is
<bryang> should see it, and assign it as eth1, likely
<musashi1> okay, i'll stick one back in and see what happens
<bryang> we will have to manually configure it to server clients
<bryang> s/server/serve/
<bryang> and for completeness we could try another install w/just two (to flesh out a bug report) ;)
<musashi1> not another install...
<bryang> heh, (at least) one more for the good of the community
<musashi1> i think i did 5 today
<musashi1> maybe tomorrow but not today
 * bryang nods
<musashi1> seems okay with the second nic. it boots and ifconfig shows eth0 and eth1
<musashi1> i have to head out soon. thanks sbalneav, bryang. as promised :)  http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/anchor_beer.jpg
<bryang> priv msg has details to conf that interface
<scrapbunny> hello- is there anyone here that has used dell gx110's as edubuntu thin clients?
<Stormzoeker> /q
<musashi1> cya. thanks again
#edubuntu 2007-10-26
<janet> is there a way to set up a usb printer locally for ltsp on a client?
<Burgundavia> janet: by plugging it into the client?
<janet> yeah did that can't see it...
<Burgundavia> there is a way, but I for hte life of my cannot remember it right now
<janet> ok thanks Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> ask sbalneav tomorrow
<desertc> So where is the action?
<desertc> Are there any Edubuntu teams who are helping schools move toward an Ubuntu solution?  I'd like to participate.
<desertc> There seemed to be some promising enthusiasm in the mailing list, but did not seem to be any direction for those people.
<desertc> I am very much in a "what can I do to help" mode.
<Burgundavia> desertc: that is really a marketing thing
<Burgundavia> what you need to sell to a school is to produce results
<Burgundavia> a case study of how another school did it woudl be ideal
<desertc> Yes, I have several case studies.  If it is more of a marketing thing, then point me in the right direction.  I am able, willing, and ready to go.
<mwright1> Hello, is anyone here that can help me with LTSP?
<mwright1> ping
<kgoetz> ask a question
<kgoetz> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<mwright1> my question is,, is anyone able to help with LTSP -- i want to run my ltsp sever in a xen instance on top of centos5 .. has anyone done this or know that it is theoretically possible
<kgoetz> i would say its theoritcially posable, i'd be supprised if someone (here) has done it
<kgoetz> seems like a lot of extra overhead
<mwright1> no xen has very little overhead
<mwright1> I am talking to you from a HP DL385 with 16Gb RAM and 2x Dual core processors  opteron 2.4ghz
<mwright1> and we have 60 clients,  in a fedora xen instance, running ltsp
<mwright1> we have a mail, server, database server
<mwright1> and it runs very nicely
<mwright1> it's about 2-7% overhead per xen instance
<mwright1> which is a smal price to pay for the flexibility of being able to do upgrades without worrying about hardware etc
<mwright1> ie if this gutsy works, we can on the fly allocate 4gb of ram and start moving the first of our users across then dynamicaly allocate the memory along the way
<mwright1> and thefore we have a falback position of just editing the dhcp.conf on theunderlying xen instance
<mwright1> I really would like to speak to one of the ltsp developers -- they're asleep on #ltsp -- cause they'll be able to answer my question in seconds
<mwright1> the advantage for us of going from fedora to gutsy is if we can get sound to work on the clients, and that's why I need to know if running it in xen is an issue for this outcome
<kgoetz> well this eing europes midnight, thier aseep here too :)
<kgoetz> *their asleep
<Meshezabeel> is the dvd a live dvd?
<yotux> can anyone offer some help troubleshooting network boot on gusty 7.10 amd64
<sbalneav> Eveing all
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<mwright1> anyone here running LTSP inside Xen, and connecting with bare metal clients.
<Burgundavia> why would you run LTSP in Xen?
<LaserJock> hi Burgundavia and sbalneav
<bddebian> Heya
<cberlo> Hi folks.  At the risk of repeating myself to anyone in the other channels I'm in, can anyone help me set up WINEPS to use AFM files so I can print from an Edubuntu box??
 * cberlo listens as a tumbleweed skitters past...
<sbalneav> Morning all
<TelnetManta> morning
<effie_jayx> morning
<musashi1> well, i got my server installed and set up. I can PXE boot a laptop and get the login screen, but i can't log in (yes, i have users created). I get "this workstations isn't authorized to connect to server" followed by a black screen, the words segmentation fault and then returned to the login screen.
<joebob777as7> sbalneav, have you seen an issue with some users logging in and seeing a black desktop? It seems to happen to us when a client logs off improperly by shutting down the computer because they can't log off with the log out button...
<joebob777as7> anyone else?
<delta16> hey guy's can someone help me !?
<delta16> Ubuntu channel is pretty buessy now :S
<delta16> i got a problem connecting my Soney ERicson W810i to my ubutu system
<delta16> i would like to send SMS messages with it :D
<joebob777as7> what exactly are you trying to do delta16?
<delta16> my cellphone has an optino to connect it with the pc in a Phone modus ,an normally i coudl use that mode to send SMS messages
<delta16> now when i connect my cellphone (witch is a W810i)
<delta16> it could not be found by  gnome-phone-manager :(
<joebob777as7> how are you connecting?
<delta16> USB
<joebob777as7> hmm... sorry not for positive on this one. sry
<musashi1> reposting - well, i got my server installed and set up. I can PXE boot a laptop and get the login screen, but i can't log in (yes, i have users created). I get "this workstations isn't authorized to connect to server" followed by a black screen, the words segmentation fault and then returned to the login screen.
<sbalneav> musashi1: You need to ltsp-update-sshkeys followed by an ltsp-update-image
<sbalneav> then reboot the terminal.
<Meshezabeel> heya, I just installed the new version of edubuntu, when I get to the gui login screen, after I type my name I have to press Enter to get to the password screen, I used to be able to press "Tab", however, "Tab" no longer works to get to the password screen. Is this a known problem?
<LaserJock> hmm, I've not heard of that before
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock: so when you press Tab after typing your name on gui login screen, you get the password screen?
<LaserJock> I've never tried it :-)
<LaserJock> gimme one sec and I will
<Meshezabeel> k, tx
<LaserJock> alright, it worked for me
<LaserJock> is this with GDM or LDM?
<Meshezabeel> GDM? I think, not sure what LDM is
<LaserJock> LDM is the greeter for thin clients
<Meshezabeel> ah, nope
<Meshezabeel> it is GDM
<LaserJock> k, I was using GDM
<LaserJock> so I think it must be something to do with your install
<Meshezabeel> so tab works for you on GDM?
<LaserJock> yes
<Meshezabeel> hmm, ok thanks, I just a basic install too, so not sure what the problem would be
<Meshezabeel> Tab key works for me in other places such as text editor, when I press on GDM after typing in my name, it just highlights my name and does not proceed to the password screen
<sbalneav> Meshezabeel: You're doing this on a regular workstion or a thin client?
<Meshezabeel> sbalneav: on a workstation
<sbalneav> I've never used tab on the gdm screen, always enter, so I've never noticed it.
<Meshezabeel> but I chose the first install option, I think the second one said install a workstation, maybe that's my problem? Mabye I should have chosen install workstation, I wasn't really sure of the difference. I was using the server install disc rather than the live disc
<sbalneav> Shouldn't make any difference for a gdm login screen.
<sbalneav> It's probably just a change that gnome's made.
<sbalneav> Logically, according to the HIG, tab SHOULDN'T work, since there isn't anther field on the screen to get to.
<sbalneav> So, I'd say the fact that tab worked before was the bug :)
<Meshezabeel> hmm, I loved using the tab :)
<Meshezabeel> strange though because I hadn't made any changes to anything else, fresh install with no changes or updates
<Meshezabeel> but Tab still works for LaserJock in 7.10, so the bug would seem to be at my end
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> Keyboard setting, some how?
<sbalneav> Maybe check your /etc/X11/xorg.conf, see if you have the right keyboard defined.
<Meshezabeel> looks like it "Generic Keyboard"..."pc105"
<Meshezabeel> and tab seems to work properly everywhere else
<sbalneav> What's your locale setting?  Is a generic pc105 what you've got?
<Meshezabeel> not sure where locale setting is, my location is Canada, I have a basic US keyboard, under the keyboard heading in xorg.conf it also says "XkbLayout" "us"
<Meshezabeel> I chose my keyboard manually during setup and chose US standard, or whatever it said, in the past when I've tried to get it to guess my keyboard, it always asks if I have a key labeled " (it looks like a double quote, but when I choose it it give me the wrong keyboard so I assume it is not a double quote), so I just always now choose it manually which usually works fine for me.
<Meshezabeel> ah, found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/127269
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127269 in gdm "[gutsy] tab key in gdm doesn't switch from login to password anymore" [Low,Fix released]
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: do what do you get when you do dpkg -l gdm
<LaserJock> *so what
<musashi1> sorry, was afk. thanks sbalneav, i did the sshkeys stuff before with no effect but not the update image. will try that.
<Meshezabeel> gdm is 2.20.0-0ubuntu (but in the middle of updates)
<musashi1> sbalneav: you are a genious. that solved the problem. i'm curious though why we had the problem. my last install (feisty) worked out of the box. maybe related to the nic issue yesterday and not a "complete" install? anyway, thanks
<sbalneav> musashi1: yeah, whenever any nic stuff changes, you have to re-update the ssh keys.
<sbalneav> And now, with the image, that also means rebuilding the image.
<sbalneav> It's a bit of a pain, but since ip addresses on servers don't change that often, it's manageable.
<musashi1> cool. thanks again for the help
<Meshezabeel> cool, thanks LaserJock and sbalneav, I got all the updates installed, and now the tab key is working again
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Anyone know if I should be able to print from Firefox with a Java applet embedded and actually see the content of the applet?  (i.e. try visit www.geogebra.org, view and example and then print it -- the java part does not appear)
<sbalneav> No, that won't work.
<cberlo> why not?  Works in Windows...
<sbalneav> Because no-one's implemented it.
<cberlo> Okay.  Simple enough.
<cberlo> Anyone working on that?  It's kind of an important thing...  :)
<sbalneav> Best bet would be to take a screen shot.
<sbalneav> I have no idea.  Seeing as how I hate java with a passion, I know *I* won't be working on it.
<cberlo> LOL  I can agree there.  How about another option, then:  know of any way to replace Geometer's Sketchpad with a native Linux app that does the same stuff?
<LaserJock> haha
<sbalneav> Also, seeing as how java at this point it still a non-free software system, I doubt anyone else will either.
<LaserJock> cberlo: have you tried Dr. Geo?
<sbalneav> Maybe once Sun actually open sources it.
<cberlo> GeoGebra looks pretty close, but if I can't print it from a web page that kinda of screws it up.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: IcedTea is in Gutsy
<cberlo> LaserJock: Yeah -- can't figure it out yet, but it looks promising, too.
<sbalneav> That's not it, is it?
<Meshezabeel> does IcedTea handle swing?
<sbalneav> Far as I know, they haven't released it yet,
<LaserJock> man, I used Geometer's Sketchpad when was taking Geometry
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I believe so
<LaserJock> I heard most apps will work with IcedTea
<cberlo> LaserJock: Well, in the school board I'm with, they like using it for Geometry but they want to try it on Edubuntu LTSP.  So....  I either need to make Geometer's Sketchpad work or find a really good substitute.
<LaserJock> icedtea-java7-bin - Java runtime based on OpenJDK
<LaserJock> cberlo: right
<sbalneav> Printscreen?
<cberlo> sbalneav: Yeah, but that won't work for lessons longer than a page...
<cberlo> LaserJock: Hey, DrGeo doesn't appear to actually do anything under Gutsy -- have you tried it?
<cberlo> Oh well, time's up for this week.  Back at it again next week!  <sigh>
<Meshezabeel> looks like sound doesn't work under icedtea
<janet> hey i'm having an issue with my clients. When they turn off the computer some times without loggin in they log back in only to come to a black desktop.
<delta16> hey guy's
<delta16> anyone that can help me
<delta16> how can i retrive the mounth path of an USB devicE ??
<LaserJock> delta16: usually you can look in /media/
<delta16> well i have an sonyericsson W810i that i want to connect to my ubuntu system to send ss messages , "lsusb" shows that the device is connected but don't know the path to the usb connection
<delta16> Kmobiletools is asking for it :-$
<LaserJock> delta16: did you look in /media/ ?
<delta16> nope
<delta16> nothing in the media folder :S
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so then maybe it's not mounted
<delta16> but does it need to be mounted , if i want to send sms messages !?
<LaserJock> I actually have no idea
<delta16> after all it shows up in the list of connected usb devices !
<LaserJock> I've never hooked a phone up to a computer
<LaserJock> if Kmobiletools is looking for a path though it might need to be mounted
<LaserJock> unless it's just looking for the device path
<LaserJock> which would be /dev/sd*
<delta16> sd?? are you sure about that
<LaserJock> those are the usb devices
<delta16> and what about "tty*" ??
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> maybe /dev/usb*
<desertc> LaserJock: Does RichEd have a counterpart in the USA?
<desertc> Any teachers here?
<LaserJock> desertc: RichEd is the Education Programme Director at Canonical
<desertc> Need some help from someone who can give me an educator - perspective.
<LaserJock> he's the top ;-)
<LaserJock> there are lots of teachers in the US
<desertc> I just gave him a ring.
<LaserJock> David Trask and Matt Oquist are guys I know personally
<desertc> Two different ideas, LJ.  One, looking for a counterpart to RichEd, and two, got something I wrote up that I'm looking for a teacher's perspective.
<desertc> :)
<LaserJock> 1) There is only one RichEd ;-) 2) David would be a good one to ask or edubuntu-users
<delta16> laserjosck thanx for the tips!
<delta16> really i think im heading the wright direktion
<desertc> Hmm !  Thanks.
<delta16> but still no solution
<LaserJock> I think there are currently 2 Canonical employees that work on Edubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra and RichEd
<LaserJock> *work with, rather
<desertc> Amazing what a small, motivated team can do.
<LaserJock> as RichEd doesn't actually do the tech stuff
<LaserJock> well, Xubuntu is done with 0 Canonical and Kubuntu with 1 ;-)
<desertc> I'm looking for someone more organizational focused.
<desertc> I think we've discussed that a couple days ago.  ;)
<desertc> So, maybe I can look on the edubuntu-users mailing list and find a teacher-resource
<desertc> Good idea.
<LaserJock> yeah, I think that's the best bet
<LaserJock> we don't get a lot of teachers in here
<delta16> the output that i get of lsusb is "Bus 001 Device 008: ID 0fce:e042 Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB" !
<delta16> anny idea what the device path could be ?
<delta16> or how to get it !?
<desertc> Where do I find the edubuntu-users ?
<desertc> highvoltage: ping
<LaserJock> desertc: http://lists.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> desertc: poing
<highvoltage> *pong
<desertc> LaserJock: Thanks again for your help.
<desertc> I feel like I am making some progress on my projects.
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> that's good to hear
<desertc> Sometimes it is just a matter of getting to talk with the right person.
<desertc> Might be of some interest to educators that the DARPA Grand Challenge is happening this weekend.
<desertc> At least qualifications.  Final event is on the 3rd.
<desertc> The famous Stanley will be participating.
<desertc> Hopefully this will usher us into an age of autonomous passenger cars.
<LaserJock> got a url?
<desertc> Thankfully, Firefox keeps a history of closed pages.  Great feature.
<desertc> http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/21131
<LaserJock> ah, I wondered by DARPA was involved
<LaserJock> *why
<desertc> DARPA funds a great number of university technology research.
<desertc> *research projects
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I've been funded by DARPA before
<desertc> Ah!  Great.  A lot of people think it is just about bombs and warfare, but they make a lot of the research from universities happen.
<desertc> I am very excited to see the results of this next GC.  The first two were inspiring.
<desertc> PBS television station made a great documentary on Stanley, if you ever get a chance to see it.
#edubuntu 2007-10-27
<desertc> Outstanding: http://soe.stanford.edu/inhouse/soe_video/Junior_B-Roll_384K_Stream.mp4
<desertc> I really hope this topic is covered in schools next week.
<desertc> More deaths attributed to auto accidents than most other causes, except heart failure, and we have the technology to resolve it.
<Trollaxor> Apple wants to make their switch to Intel chips seem like a no-brainer, but the reality of it was a lot more complicated than just faster chips for Macs. Apple's claims of their Intel systems being "4-5x faster" than their PowerPC systems is a little much to swallow, especially with Intel Macs landing in users' hands and failing to live up to the hype. So if these Intel chips aren't really that much faster than the G5, why did Apple m
<Trollaxor> My name is Laxor.
<paolob> Hi ogra
<paolob> ogra_cmpc, I think beagle shouldn't be installed by default in edubuntu, because with many clients it hogs the cpu
<Burgundavia> paolob: is that speculation or evidence?
<stgraber> hi ogra_cmpc (I suppose you are the only one with a cmpc around here ? :))
<stgraber> hi ogra_cmpc_
<ogra_cmpc_> hey
<ogra_cmpc_> where are you
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc_: the guy with the hp laptop 5m from you :)
<stgraber> RichEd: any planned edubuntu/ltsp/edu bof planned/running ? (all I saw was pretty late today)
<nuba1> hi, does anyone know if the ATI X1450 will work on edubuntu with the new fglrx driver released by AMD/ATI?
<nuba1> edubuntu 7.10 that is
<nuba1> from what I'm reading on the web it will... thank god.. at long last we can use ATI with aiglx...
<juliux> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hi juliux :)
<RichEd> greetz from boston
<juliux> RichEd, hug ogra from me pls if you see him
<RichEd> will do so ... he's around somewhere
<juliux> thanks
<RichEd> ogra: <juliux> RichEd, hug ogra from me pls if you see him
<ogra> :)
<juliux> a realy hug not a irc one;)
<RichEd> juliux: I know ... will do so when we are having a beer and male bonding later :)
<juliux> RichEd, cheers;) but donÂ´t make a picture of ogra with drinks in his hand;)
<juliux> the first picture i saw from orga was with a johnywalker bottel in his hand;)
<ogra> wrong
<ogra> that was rum
<juliux> hmm
<ogra> and the pic actually goes on janes account :)
<juliux> ok it was rum;)
<ogra> she brought the rum *and* took the pic
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> if we meet again i will make a picture with you and some beer;)
<juliux> RichEd, edubuntu is via linux4afria tomorror again in the tv in germany
<ogra> cool, where ?
<RichEd> great ... can you make a tape for us ?
<juliux> on 3sat
 * ogra was pretty disappointed when he watched last ct magazine on tv .... they made a big hype about a report about linux ... 
<juliux> we will try to record it with mythtv
<ogra> and only showed novell
<juliux> 3sat was with a team at the ubucon
<ogra> nice !
<ogra> 3sat ... then its shown in "neues" i guess
<juliux> jep
<stgraber> ogra__: going to the OLPC session ?
<stgraber> ogra__: if yes, it's now :)
<ogra__> oh, thanks
<ogra__> !
<nixternal> #ubuntu-classroom for the OpenWeek Ubuntu Documentation Talk
<RichEd> ping ogra
<Gladk> Hi all!
<Gladk> Can anybody give an practical experience of installing edubuntu in schools with terminals?
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<RichEd> highvoltage: pingie
#edubuntu 2007-10-28
<i__> Hello, is there anyone around to help out?
<sunnybg> hi. is there alternative install cd for edubuntu? I could not find any, and I have previous installation using lvm. i need to reinstall, as the upgrade process failed
<sunnybg> it left me w/o wifi card working, and no X
<ogra> the server CD is the alternative CD
<sunnybg> ogra, thanks
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<stgraber> ogra, sbalneav: got my baggage :) will be back in 15 minutes
<ogra> yay
<sbalneav> stgraber: Yay!
<stgraber> ogra, sbalneav,RichEd: Which room are you in ?
<sbalneav> Well, I'm up in the hotel room.
<stgraber> ok :)
<sbalneav> Ollie's downstairs, I beleive
<RichEd> he's next to me
<RichEd> i'm checked into room 439 ... but now on 3rd floor
<sbalneav> Back
<dtrask> moquist: are you coming down today?
<stgraber> the third ogra in the channel :)
<stgraber> oh no, "ogra" disconnected :), so only two
<sbalneav> Our cloning program is finally bearing fruit.
<ogra__> heh
<stgraber> right, I think we should be good with three or four ogra :) one for cmpc, one for LTSP, one for Edubuntu desktop and one for the paper part of the work :)
<sbalneav> And one just to look tres sexy :)
<effie_jayx> ogra__,  I am working on developing a School Diary for a cmpc in venezuela. do you know of any proyect already in progress ?
<effie_jayx> anyone know about any apps that might help with a school diary
<effie_jayx> ?
<sbalneav> Hmm
<ogra> not working ?
<sbalneav> Well, I've used phpgroupware quite a bit
<sbalneav> it's got a group scheduler, group notes, etc
<sbalneav> effie_jayx: Have you looked at that? Or is there something specific to a school diary that isn't covered by that?
<effie_jayx> sbalneav,  intel wants some desktop app
<effie_jayx> the idea is to have a client/master app where the teacher asigns homework and the kids and the parents can refer to later
<effie_jayx> so I am thinking of going desktop app
<ogra> we're looking into italc for hardy ... which is actually a session management app to manage the students desktpos (send messages, lock down the desktop etc) ... probably it would make sense to have such a functionallity as a plugin to it
<effie_jayx> but good thing is the app will be FOSS
<stgraber> ogra: plugin support for italc is on the todolist but not implemented AFAIK, so that would currently be an ugly patch :)
<effie_jayx> we were emphatic on it and intel seems to be ok with it
<ogra> meh
<ogra> effie_jayx, sounds cool to me
<stgraber> ogra: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
<ogra> effie_jayx, if you have some code, it would be good to contact MOTU to get it packaged :)
<effie_jayx> ogra,  we just started yesterday
<sbalneav> Wonder if something could be done via avahi
<effie_jayx> ogra,  intel didn't give us the CMPC til friday
<effie_jayx> and we almost had to buy them :S
<ogra> effie_jayx, "if you have some code" :)
<ogra> really ?
<ogra> thats harsh
<moquist> dtrask: yep
<moquist> will probably leave within an hour or two
<moquist> dtrask: you?
<moquist> ogra, sbalneav: already in town?
<dtrask> moquist: I'm here....your check is here....your server is here...room 503
<moquist> Oh, geez. I'd better get there fast. :)
<stgraber> moquist: we all are at Hotel@MIT
<ogra> moquist, yup, we had two days of fosscamp already
<moquist> cool!
<effie_jayx> ogra,  we hope to have something fast... Intel was left stranded and they are pressed for time...
<effie_jayx> ogra,  a debian nm is trying to solve the pen bit
<dtrask> moquist: very nice place!
<moquist> Oh, right. I couldn't go to FOSS Camp and so forgot about it. :p
<dtrask> moquist: so hurry up dude!
<ogra> effie_jayx, pen bit ?
<dtrask> moquist: valet parking $28...park yourself $22
<moquist> dtrask: turns out I'm not driving down. My wife's gonna drop me off so my car can get repaired during the week.
<moquist> dtrask: My wife will pick me up and I'll get my car and drive myself up to BTS.
<ogra> why did you break it in the first place ?
<moquist> Just trying a little automotive hack, you know... the compiler had a bug I didn't know about, and before you knew it I had no more brakes. *shrug*
<ogra> heh
<ogra> who needs breakes if there are anchors
<moquist> I got the cheap model without the anchors. :( :( :(
<moquist> LaserJock: LASERJOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
<ogra> ah, indeed, adding that as extra costs extra
<moquist> I thought about an aftermarket anchor, but they're usually made of cheap plastic and they break off on telephone poles, other cars, pedestrians, small pets, etc.
<moquist> Oh - gotta get my car to the mechanic by 5. Gotta run. :)
<ogra> see you :)
<LaserJock> hi moquist
<LaserJock> bye moquist
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> good afternoon ogra
<effie_jayx> ogra,  the CM has a pen with which people can write and that appears on screen
<sbalneav> moquist: Yes I am
<ogra> there is an app
<ogra> effie_jayx, i'm supposed to get that these days from intel, it will be included in the edubuntu image
<dtrask> LaserJock: are you here?  Or there?
<ogra> dtrask, he's there :(
<LaserJock> dtrask: there
<LaserJock> anybody got xaos installed?
<dtrask> LaserJock: damn!
 * ogra raises hand
<LaserJock> I need a test of xaos -fullscreen
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~$ xaos -fullscreen
<ogra> X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
<ogra> gah
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> and i dont run compiz ... i thought that one was compiz spcific
<LaserJock> that's what I got an andother reporter
<LaserJock> ogra: is there a bug open about it?
<LaserJock> ogra: I didn't seen Edubuntu specs listed in the Boston blueprint list
<LaserJock> are they hiding somewhere or have they not be registered yet?
<stgraber> not been registered AFAIK
<ogra> LaserJock, i'm working on the list with rich
<ogra> we'll register them soon
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UDS-Boston/ActionItems
<ogra> LaserJock, only bug 117568 even though i'm not sure bug 135904 is related
<ogra> hmmm
<dtrask> ogra: What's your title with Canonical?
 * ogra looks for ubotu
<dtrask> ogra: blogging
<LaserJock> ogra: ubotu's been dying lately
 * LaserJock is afk for a while, leave a message ;-)
<dtrask> ogra: What's Colin's official title?  (feel free to make one up)
<ogra> dtrask, which colin ?
<ogra> watson ?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I'm updating to gutsy on the laptop now.  Want me to dig into the Xaos bug after that?
<stgraber> sbalneav: you were still running feisty ? don't like running devel release and all the funny things you have with it ? (like no more X, broken kernel, ...) :)
<sbalneav> stgraber: heh, well, I'm gutsy at work and at home, but my laptop seems to have been left behind.
<dtrask> I did an upgrade to gutsy from Feisty....broke too many things....little things, but enough to force me to do a clean install
<dtrask> Now everything works fine...except for the #$!%$#2!  battery monitor!
<dtrask> Know issue with this System76 lappy, but no one knows how to fix yet
<i> Hello, anyone available?
<i_> Hello, anyone available?
<cmonkey> indeed
<i_> Hello?
<i_> cmonkey: Hello?
<cmonkey> hello...
<i_> Know much about USB flash drives plugged into thin-clients connected to Edubuntu server (Gutsy)?
<cmonkey> nope, but ask your question, so someone can see eventually and perhaps answer it
<i_> OK:
<i_>  I'm running Edubuntu server (Gutsy) ...
<i_>  Used to run Feisty ... had 19 clients connecting fine before
<i_>  Now have a problem with local devices connected to the client ...
<i_>  Only the first client connected gets access to local devices - the rest don't
<i_>  Neither the user logging in, nor the client being used has any bearing upon this ...
<i_>  It's whoever logs in first, has access - the remainder don't ... any ideas what this could be?
<i_> BTW: sbalneav and ogra helped me get access to local devices a couple of days back but I didn't realise at the time that the solution was only working for one client at a time!
#edubuntu 2008-10-20
<sbalneav> morning all
<Cwave> hello
#edubuntu 2008-10-21
<sbalneav> Evening all
<scart> 	
<scart> hello, I have a serious problem I have Edubuntu working with a client server on the client came ltsp normal but a few days ago, when the customer goes up making the login screen and I write the user and passwd stays there.
<scart> hello
<scart> hello, I have a serious problem I have Edubuntu working with a client server on the client came ltsp normal but a few days ago, when the customer goes up making the login screen and I write the user and passwd stays there
<sbalneav> Morning all
#edubuntu 2008-10-22
<thismamacooks200> ï»¿ï»¿if I run a repeating playlist or a long video in *any* media player, it stops playing and the player eventually stop playing sound at all until I close and restart it. I also have the same problem with audio in firefox. Games also will not make sound if firefox or a media player are opened first.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Eeyore-Jr> hi.  i quite a few questions
<Eeyore-Jr> can i use ltsp server as a central login/home/storage server but use standalone machines
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: You could
<sbalneav> It'd take a bit of modification of things, but not too much
<Nubae> Eeyore-Jr: take a look at www.nubae.com theres an article about using ltsp to serve fat clients... which is more or less what u want, except there is no data stored on the client machines
<Eeyore-Jr> Nubae: thx
<Eeyore-Jr> so ltsp will serve to pii 450 with 512mb ram and work as well as it were if it were running on the server?
<Eeyore-Jr> someone referred me here, as i was looking at ubuntu intrepid server and installing ltsp.  is there a difference between edubuntu and ubuntu + ltsp ?
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm looking for "lean"
<sbalneav> edubuntu = ubuntu + ltsp + educational apps
<Eeyore-Jr> i've looked at the educational apps, and some of them are cheesy.  i've been thinking about paying someone to build some apps
<Eeyore-Jr> i guess my question about edubuntu was, is it pre-configured, or does it matter for ltsp ?
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, and what about windows apps on wine.  run the same way ?
<sbalneav> Why not pay to have someone help to make the current apps less cheesy :)  That benefits us all, then.
<sbalneav> Yes.
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: well, yes, there is that
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, next question, i can install ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, e17 on ubuntu ltsp and let the end user choose his desktop ?
<sbalneav> Well, you simply install whatever desktops you'd like on the server, and then the user can choose from there.
<Eeyore-Jr> going the ubuntu server route, i'm going to need xwindows as well
<sbalneav> yes
<Eeyore-Jr> nm, i'll kubuntu it and then do e17
<Nubae> Eeyore-Jr: if u want ltsp, you're best of sticking with ubuntu
<Lns> Nubae!
<DrX> how can you see the version of your RAID driver?
<sbalneav> DrX: Some context would be useful :)
<sbalneav> I mean, uname -a gives you your kernel version, which, depending on your raid driver (i.e. if it's a built in one) is also it's version
<Eeyore-Jr> Nubae: ?
<Eeyore-Jr> any particular reason why stick with ubuntu?
<Nubae> cause ltsp has been heavily tested on Ubuntu only...
<Nubae> its definitely gnome reliant
<Eeyore-Jr> :(
<Eeyore-Jr> guess i'll be a guine pig
<Eeyore-Jr>  :)
<Nubae> doesnt mean u cant run kubuntu, its just apt-getting the ltsp server stuff
<Nubae> but u'd have less problems with ubuntu
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, that's what i think i'm doing now with bare ubuntu server
<Eeyore-Jr> less probelms because edubuntu or ubuntu  has better confiugriaon
<Eeyore-Jr> i noticed in aptitude there is standalone, vs server ... port forwarding boot requests?
<Eeyore-Jr> what is a fused server?
<Eeyore-Jr> i suppose i could put the standalone on now and then sepearte the two later
<Eeyore-Jr> looks like there is clietn and client-core ... but adept doesn't tell me what is so different about them
<sbalneav> ltsp-server-standalone includes the dhcp3-server package being installed.  ltsp-server doesn't include the dhcp3-server package.
<sbalneav> Most people want the -standalone package, as they typically don't have a dhcp server already.
<varikk> Hello all
<varikk> can anyone point me to some documentation that explains setting up an edubuntu server for my school and thin clients?
<sbalneav> !docs
<ubottu> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
<sbalneav> Also:
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<sbalneav> Heading home
<sbalneav> be on later
<Eeyore-Jr> well, i'm about ready to test the idea of ltsp on a consumer machine with 7 clients and see if it works.  :)
<Eeyore-Jr> k, has anyone tried to use music software with a usb piano keyboard and ltsp server serving the app?
<Eeyore-Jr> or i guess the question is, does ltsp recognize the local usb ports
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a way to "monitor" a ltsp workstation?  ie, see what is going on video wise?
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, ha, hit f4 and the ltsp server will install
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, 8.10 does not have a ltsp option
<Nubae> really
<Nubae> it should... the alpha and beta did
<Nubae> make sure its the alternative cd
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm on the beta, and f4 only gives normal and minimal
<Nubae> alternative cd?
<Eeyore-Jr> ubuntu server cd or ubuntu alternate?
<Nubae> ubuntu alternate
<Eeyore-Jr> is there an ubuntuer server alternate?
<Nubae> no
<Eeyore-Jr> ah.  booting from ubuntu, xubuntu or kuubntu will install ltsp for that particular flavor? or just a base ubuntu ltsp server?
<Nubae> particular flavour
#edubuntu 2008-10-23
<sbalneav> evening all
<BunnyRevolution> hi.  is there a way to run thin and fat clients from the same server?  is this possible?
<sbalneav> Not sure.
<sbalneav> I know nubae's done some work on fat clients
<sbalneav> By fat clients, you still mean diskless?
<sbalneav> Or, are you asking if you can use the server as an NFS server for home dirs, for full fledged workstations?
<BunnyRevolution> nubae's fat clients with ltsp thin clients
<sbalneav> Then I'm not sure.
<BunnyRevolution> do you have a link to nubae's fat client?
<sbalneav> www.nubae.com, I beleive.  Or maybe .org
<BunnyRevolution> the answer is yes
<BunnyRevolution> wow, his fat client is 600mhz and 256mb ram
<BunnyRevolution> so i'm wondering how low can one go?
<BunnyRevolution> is it all dependent upon the server?
<Mowrey> Hello. How can I connect my Edubuntu to Internet through a Dial-Up connection on an Inspiron
<Mowrey> E1505
<Mowrey> Hmm, nobody wants to help me, no matter where I ask. :(
<Mowrey> That's not fair.
<Eeyore-Jr> hi.  does the thin client use it's own video or the video of the host/server machine?  memory, graphics, etc.
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: the thin client uses it's own video, memory (for the video) and graphics chips, but the programs themselves run on the server
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream has a good theory of operation section
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a big difference between ubuntu and xubuntu in programs?
<Eeyore-Jr> the programs are basically the same iirc, with only the desktop differing
<sbalneav> A lot are the same, some are different.
<Eeyore-Jr> actually though, reading your above statement, system requirements for a xubuntu ltsp or a ubuntu ltsp for the client should be exactly the same without the load happening on the client
<sbalneav> Well, with less graphical "bling" xubuntu should use a little less client ram.  But that pales in comparison to how much client ram some of the programs you'd use will consume anyway.  Things like firefox.
<Eeyore-Jr> firefox would be using server ram though, correct?
<Eeyore-Jr> has opera been tested on ltsp?  wouldn't that be a better choice?
<sbalneav> No, firefox also uses client ram as well
<sbalneav> as it caches images in Xserver ram, which is on the client.
<ogra> everything that displays something uses client ram
<sbalneav> right.
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm using 450 PII and 550 PII-Celerons with 256 to 512mb ram
<sbalneav> That should be pretty decent.
<Eeyore-Jr> everything that displays uses client system ram or client video ram
<ogra> video
<sbalneav> Also system
<ogra> though it depends on your graphics card, video ram might be system ram
<Eeyore-Jr> ug.  so if my video cards are booting up with xubuntu normally in low graphcs mode, then my video ram is way to low
<sbalneav> Well, what resolution are they booting up in?
<Eeyore-Jr> not sure, i'd have to check, but i think 800x640
<ogra> might also be that it falls back to vesa because there is no driver for your videocard
<sbalneav> Yep, that too
<sbalneav> What kind of video cards are in the boxes?
<sbalneav> real video cards with a fixed amount of video ram on them?
<Eeyore-Jr> i'll have to check
<Eeyore-Jr> assorted
<Eeyore-Jr> i do know that *untu doesn't support my server graphics card
<Eeyore-Jr> well sorta.  i can install using it, but after it reboots, i get no video
<sbalneav> Probably make sue you set vesa mode for it.
<Eeyore-Jr> geforuce 8800 gs
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm looking at using no machine to manage the server
<Eeyore-Jr> with the ibex, when it attemps to build the client, it fails
<Eeyore-Jr> LTSP chroot
<Eeyore-Jr> iirc, this happened when i tried with aptitude as well
<Nubae> how does it fail?
<ogra> aptitude ?
<Eeyore-Jr> i don't recall, as i've started the alternate install for ubuntu ltsp
<Eeyore-Jr> but the alternate ltsp is failing at the same point it appears
<ogra> it should work from the CD built on 21th oct on
<Eeyore-Jr> under "build ltsp chroot
<ogra> before nobody tested it
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm using intrepid beta
<ogra> that wont work
<Eeyore-Jr> :(
<ogra> you need RC
<Eeyore-Jr> ok.  rc is out now?
<ogra> not yet, later today
<Eeyore-Jr> *sigh*
<ogra> but the daily images are roughly what RC will be
<Eeyore-Jr> so, can i use 8.04.1?
<ogra> we're unlikely to rebuild them
<Eeyore-Jr> for testing the equipment
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20081022/
<ogra> take that one
<Eeyore-Jr> thx
<Eeyore-Jr> when's stable released.  i have a full blown test next thursday, and another the following week, both for three days
<ogra> 30th
<Eeyore-Jr> k, daily is installed.  can't get an ip address from the router and video does not work
<Eeyore-Jr> bb after lunch.
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, the ltsp portion of it works.  still no video or getting a dhcp address from outside, but the internal clients work
<Eeyore-Jr> i've got a mobo with two nics.  it's serving address to the clients on the switch, but i cannot get the incoming nic to wrok
<Eeyore-Jr> if i'm log into a ltsp client as myself (admin) is that the same as being on the machine itself?
<Eeyore-Jr> *untu 8.10 looks neat.  is there a way to restrict a client to his/her home directory?
#edubuntu 2008-10-24
<Eeyore-Jr> this is my network configuration.  ISP --> Linksys Router + Wireless (192.168.0.1) --> Bridge --> LTSP Server --> LTSP Clients (192.168.0.x)
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm not getting out of the internal network
<Eeyore-Jr> i noticed that eth0 which was where the external net would be connected was set to static instead of dhcp
<Eeyore-Jr> changing that allowed me to obtain an IP address for eth0.  however, i'm still not connection outside of the network
<Eeyore-Jr> at this point, I'm assuming this is because the two networks are the same.  i'm getting served an address with 192.168.0.x and the LTSP server is serving address that are 192.168.0.x.  I'm not sure what I'm missing.
<Eeyore-Jr> brb
<Eeyore-Jr> it would appear that ubuntu ltsp server is serving itself a dhcp address on eth0 while server a dhcp address for eth1 on the client port
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Eeyore-Jr> hi sbalneav
<Eeyore-Jr> can u give me a hand on networking on the ltsp server?  something is not right, and i'm not sure why
<sbalneav> What's the problem?
<Eeyore-Jr> i've resolved it
<sbalneav> OK
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm using the RC, and networking was setup incorrectly under installation
<Eeyore-Jr> i've finally got a connection to the outside world, now i'm checking clients
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: i've lost the client side now
<Eeyore-Jr> :(
<sbalneav> What
<sbalneav> Wat's the result of the command "sudo ifconfig -a"
<sbalneav> Paste it to the pastebin
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, i'm re-installing
<Eeyore-Jr> i'll be able to tell quickly if everything is kosher on a vanilla install
<Eeyore-Jr>   APIC aborted, blah blah
<Eeyore-Jr> crc error
<Eeyore-Jr> unable to mount file system on (0,0)
<Eeyore-Jr> and yet it worked fine on three other installs :(
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: bad mem chips, and maybe bad board :(
<sbalneav> Morning al
<ogra> who is al ?
<ogra> pachino ?
<ogra> or al bert ?
<sbalneav> Herb Albert and the Tijauana Brass
<sbalneav> Da na Da da dana da
<sbalneav> Da na Da da dana da
<sbalneav> Da na Da da dana da
<sbalneav> da da da
<sbalneav> doop doop
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> I think that's spanish flea
<sbalneav> wikipediaing
<sbalneav> I think it's pretty cool I can be here at work, on my thin client, and be ssh'd into home, and have gnucash fired up, and entering in my paychecque
<ogra> haha
 * stgraber plays with his NX powered application servers
<stgraber> it's funny to be able to connect either with a thin client or using NX from a remote site
<stgraber> (and they are both sharing the same loadbalancer)
<varikk> anyone know of a website, or where to look for info concerning setting up a edubuntu server.  My school is interested in making that leap but I need info on it.
<sbalneav> varikk: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream has a lot of good information
<varikk> great thanks
<sbalneav> There's also the edubuntu handbook
<sbalneav> !handbook
<ubottu> The Edubuntu Handbook is currently work-in-progress and can be browsed via http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<varikk> thanks I will check those out.
<sbalneav> Now, most of the info in the handbook's in the first document, but the upstream doco's a bit more up to date.
<varikk> we've been running macbooks for the last 5 years but the idea of ubuntu is appealing to us
<ogra> sbalneav, dont forget for ubuntu specific ltsp to point to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ Lns made some awesome progress with it
<ogra> (take a look)
<sbalneav> Wow, yeah, nice work.
<Eeyore-Jr> ltsp boot from a usb key?
<sbalneav> You could, but it's not supported out of the box.
<sbalneav> Network booting's way better anyway, since you can update the thin client's kernel easily that way.
<Eeyore-Jr> but possilbe.  so boot from usb key to wireless adapter connect to wireless router then to switch then to ltsp server
<sbalneav> You wouldn't want to run LTSP over wireless.
<Eeyore-Jr> ?
<sbalneav> Some people try it, and are disappointed with the results
<Eeyore-Jr> 3MB wireless ?
<sbalneav> Diskless thin clients use a fair amount of bandwidth, and send lots of little packets.
<Eeyore-Jr> or just doesn't do well?
<sbalneav> wireless has too much latency.
<sbalneav> You have to remember, not only is all the X traffic going over the wireless link, but also any disk traffic for the thin client.
 * sbalneav shrugs
<sbalneav> Some people have tried it, and felt it worked OK for their application.
<sbalneav> If you're going to try it, I'd recommend getting a wireless bridge, so you can just plug a regular PXE network card directly into it, and boot normally.
<sbalneav> Something like this:
<sbalneav> http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=13013&vpn=WGA54G&manufacture=Linksys
<Eeyore-Jr> i was looking at http://support.gateway.com/s/Profile/Profile4/3501443/3501443nv.shtml - those.  they allow me to slip in a wireless card
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, i guess i'll avoid wireless based on your suggestions
<sbalneav> If you're looking to buy thin clients, why not buy them from vendors that actively support LTSP development?
<sbalneav> Suggestions include disklessworkstations.com, symbio-technologies.com, and www.artecgroup.com/thincan/
<Eeyore-Jr> well, when buying enmass auction lots, gettting 10 of those for 200.00 is much cheaper
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, i'll retract my statement.  those are very small
<Eeyore-Jr> thin clients would allow someone to play a dvd with a dvd drive, correct?
<Eeyore-Jr> so, if you get a computer that is new enought to boot usb, a usb key is 6.00 and a pxe card is 30.00
<Eeyore-Jr> therefore it makes sense to use the onboard ethernet and buy usb keys and boot usb
<Eeyore-Jr> er, 3.50
<Eeyore-Jr> i wonder why people don't do more thin client installs
<Eeyore-Jr> it seems like the max benifit
<varikk> so ideas here everyone, if i want to set this up for my school I could use thin clients for old hardware we have wired in, and need to do complete edubuntu os installs on any wireless laptops we have.  Is it possible to still set up accounts for student use on the server?
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: No, you can't play a DVD on a thin client.
<sbalneav> varikk: Yes
<varikk> am i wrong in thinking i could use 5 year old macbooks & put edubuntu on them?
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: :(
<Eeyore-Jr> any reason why?
<Eeyore-Jr> so do the client drives work at all?  such as floppy disk?
<varikk> to play dvd video using the thin client model, can you put the dvd on the server and use a media player to access it that way?
<Eeyore-Jr> varikk: i would think one could.  in my situation, i'd like the kids to be able to check out a dvd from the library, take it over to the computer and play the dvd
<Eeyore-Jr> so, i'm wondering if i could do a standalone client that logged into ltsp server where home, etc. was.  which is still different than a fat or thin client i think
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: Well, floppies, USB sticks, cdroms, and DVD's for data work just fine.  But watching video wouldn't work in a pure thin client environment
<sbalneav> You could set up a dvd player as a local app, I suppose.
<sbalneav> If you want just shared home directories, and single signon's, that's pretty easy.
<sbalneav> Thin clients are great, but you have to remember: they're not the same as a full fledged workstation.
<sbalneav> Afternoon LaserJock
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hi!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: how's it going?
<sbalneav> It's goin!
<sbalneav> I gotta test out multi-bin printing in Intrepid this next week.
<sbalneav> The new PDF printing subsystem makes me.... kinda nervous
<LaserJock> yeah?
<sbalneav> However, I DID see that Evince now allows you to save fill-in-form data in PDF's, which is a HUGE win for us.
<LaserJock> cool, I haven't tried that out but that would be great indeed
<Eeyore-Jr> watching video in a fat client?
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a way to watch video with ltsp login, home directory management?
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
#edubuntu 2008-10-25
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: still around?
<Eeyore-Jr> swapped memory out, and ltsp server is up and running and i'm chattting from a 533mhz celeron with 256 mem
<Eeyore-Jr> programs seem to work well, except chromium
<Eeyore-Jr> is this normal or based on the video
<Eeyore-Jr> er, video memory
<Eeyore-Jr> btw, dhcp is # out in interfaces after rebooting preventing the server from accessing the router
<Eeyore-Jr> on the RC
<Eeyore-Jr> which seems to be a bug ?
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, this is slow.  is it because of the machine ?  or the network connection ?
<Eeyore-Jr> anyone home?
<Eeyore-Jr> what is the demand on the processor on the client?
<Eeyore-Jr> would getting new pci video cards help the client?
<Eeyore-Jr> does the client need 3d Graphics cards to run 3D type of games?
<Eeyore-Jr> ug.  client came to a crawl and stopped.  now it's going again
<Eeyore-Jr> back to a crawl
<Eeyore-Jr> k, i pulled the cable from the pc and swapped computers.  i don't think the ltsp server understood what happened and continued to allow the other processes hang out there even though the thin client had been disconnected
<Eeyore-Jr> the other computer i plugged into, has 512mb ram and a 2.0ghz processor
<Eeyore-Jr> tried ri-li and chromium on it, but neither one worked.
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, yes, and a video card with 128mb ram.  so it appears that ltsp is very limited on what apps it will serve
<Eeyore-Jr> so anything with graphics is out?
<Eeyore-Jr> how does edubuntu run kids games, like tux
<Eeyore-Jr> ?
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, guess i'm stuck with a choice
<Eeyore-Jr> just found nubea's fat client, which appears what i'm looking for
<Eeyore-Jr> i recall in college, using a DG Unix server and doing graphics on it.  large graphics, for GIS.  is linux this far behind?
<Eeyore-Jr> on the fat client, how does it konw to use the system?  the fat-client side
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a msg bot here?  i'd like to leave a msg for nubae
<Eeyore-Jr> i have some questions about his fat client
<Eeyore-Jr>   flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound
<Eeyore-Jr> E: Package libflashsupport has no installation candidate
<Eeyore-Jr> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<rhce7322> what the the debian/ubuntu equiv of 'rpm -ql <pkg>'    or    'rpm -qf <file>'  ?
<rhce7322> rpm -ql lists contents of a pkg
<rhce7322> rpm -qf tells you what pkg a file came from
<LaserJock> rhce7322: one sec
<LaserJock> rhce7322: rpm -qf would be dpkg -S <file>
<LaserJock> rhce7322: dpkg -c <file>.deb will show you the contents of a .deb file
<Eeyore-Jr> k, xubuntu on ltsp was fast.  ubuntu was slow.  i've not tried kubuntu.  e was blazing fast.  is edubuntu any different than ubuntu?
<LaserJock> not in terms of speed
 * Eeyore-Jr should get a physch exam, as i'm always talking to myself
<LaserJock> because it uses Gnome
<LaserJock> but you can use xfce with Edubuntu too if you want
<Eeyore-Jr> so why in the @#$# is ubuntu using ubnuntu for ltsp clients
<Eeyore-Jr> that does not make sense
<Eeyore-Jr> if the goal is to use older pcs on the network already
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the goal is to use LTSP
<Eeyore-Jr> i thought kubuntu 8.10 (kde4) would be heavy, but it's not.  it seems lighter than ubuntu even in ltsp
<Eeyore-Jr> kde uses alsa.  will it also use pulseaudio?  i tried hydrogen and get no sound from kubuntu
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, now how to figure out to set default menus for each *untu
<Eeyore-Jr> well, my testing is done with the exception of the fat client
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm a little uneasy as it did not perform as expected, and i'm hoping i can work the kinks out before getting fired
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a way to customize the user's login screen?  i noticed that when i installed kubuntu-desktop it asked me to choose gdm or kdm
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a ltsp dm?
<Eeyore-Jr> Video conferencing with Ekiga - how is this possible if it won't run a simple game?
<Eeyore-Jr> i've noticed in the docs
<rhce7322> LaserJock: Thanks 4 dpkg nfo.  Sorry, housework dragged me away.
<rhce7322> LaserJock: Is there a database of installed debs that can be queried, or do I need to track down a phys .deb file if I want to know its contents eg, I want to find out where named stuffs its stuff, but don't have a bind9-n.n-n.deb anywhere handy.
<rhce7322> looks like you can use /var/cache/apt/archive... as long as you don't flush...
<stgraber> rhce7322: dpkg -L <package>
<rhce7322> a-Ha!
<rhce7322> Hmmmmmmm.  Debian stuffs bind zone files in /etc ???  I guess someone must have had a reason...
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: a better answer to the "why is gnome used for Edubuntu" is that when Edubuntu was started Xubuntu didn't exist
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: and Edubuntu used to ship xfce4 but it was moved to Universe so we don't anymore
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: and LTSP uses ldm instead of gdm or kdm. It's made specifically for LTSP
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: what you can run with LTSP depends largely on the LTSP server and network
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: Edubuntu is capable of doing video conferencing, but you would need a pretty nice server/network to do much of it
<stgraber> LaserJock: or my latest localapp hack :) We do fullscreen skype conferencing on our thin clients at the office.
<LaserJock> right
<Eeyore-Jr> sooo, a quad4 intel and 4G ram and gigabyte ethernet and 7200 rpm drives with 32mb cache ram would do it?
<Eeyore-Jr> Nubae: !
<Eeyore-Jr> hi. i have some questions for you
<Eeyore-Jr> i was following your blog entry, and used hardy on intrepid.  is there a way to "undo" this?
<Eeyore-Jr> also, does the client pick how it boots on it's own?  how does it know to be a thin or a fat client?
<Nubae> Eeyore-Jr: sure, just delete /opt/ltsp/fati386, and then download the intrepid version
<Nubae> u need to install nfs on the server and export home too.
<Nubae> sudo apt-get install nfs-kernel-server nfs-common portmap
<Nubae> and then edit /etc/exports and include this line: /home 192.168.0.0/24(rw,no_root_squash,async)
<Nubae> finally do sudo exportfs -a
<Eeyore-Jr> ok.  is that in your blog or did i miss something?
<Eeyore-Jr> can i mix fat and thin clients on the same server?
<Nubae> Well no, I assume people usually have nfs server installed, but I will add it, as it is sort of essential
<Eeyore-Jr> yes, some of us are not as smart as you are :)
<Nubae> yeah sure... for that take a look at step 5 here (adding fat client details to dhcp) here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
<Nubae> heh, its not about being smart, its just about routine... I've done this many times so I know what I am looking for. If I was smart I would not assume people have nfs and dhcp settings already set for fat client
<Nubae> thats why people like yourself testing this is so imporant ;-)
<Eeyore-Jr> it looks like i have a lot of work ahead of me.  i still am unclear, if i put two pcs on the network, one fat, and one thin, the server just knows or the client?  do i have to hard code the mac addresses?
<Eeyore-Jr> {i skimed the doc}
<Eeyore-Jr> or does it boot, and then go "oh, i see i have resources to work with" and boot fat
<Eeyore-Jr> heh, sounds like me in the morning with breakfast
<Nubae> its not much work, u just have to tell the client (by mac address) which image to load
<Nubae> so the best way is to have 2 seperate sections like the dhcp entry on that page, one for fat clients, one for thin clients... this is useful for seperating off multiple chroots (you can also use that to seperate other customised chroots (amd64, mac chroot, kubuntu chroots, etc)
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, that makes sense
<Eeyore-Jr> i'll see what kind of headway i make on the test server
<Eeyore-Jr> i working against the clock so to speak.  need by next wednesday and i don't quite understand everything that is going on yet
<Nubae> well, Im here... so ask away if u have questions...
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, thx.  i'm going to look at some cheap fat clients today
<Nubae> but I definitely suggest using Intrepid, as it is the stablest LTSP so far
<Eeyore-Jr> something i tried last evening was putting kubuntu, ubuntu, xubuntu, and e on ... e was by far the fasted
<Eeyore-Jr> er fastest
<Nubae> yeah... its quite easy to make an E17 fat client... If I get some time today or tomrrow, I'll create a script to do that... should just be a couple of changes
<Eeyore-Jr> i prefer kubuntu, but e was great for the thin client
<Nubae> kubuntu-kde4?
<ogra> stgraber, ooohm you got a rt2680 dirver for me ...
 * ogra hugs stgraber 
<berriop> Just to say that I have applied for the Edubuntu Members and the Edubuntu BugSquad teams, I have been working with Ubuntu and LTSP for a while so I hope to contribute as much as I can
<stgraber> ogra: :)
<stgraber> ogra: was fun to play with dkms and quite easy to do. Just too bad it didn't get included (shouldn't need that much change to be good for inclusion but it was quite late in the release cycle)
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, your own company, sounds cool :)
#edubuntu 2008-10-26
<Eeyore-Jr_> Nubae: i'm going to start on my fat client.  what link did you give me this morning?
<Eeyore-Jr_> on a fat client, is there a way to get it to only run the graphics programs ?  my fat client would run programs slower than the server.
<Ahmuck> is edubuntu a "add-on" cd now ?
<stgraber> yes, since 8.04
<LaserJock> hi stgraber
<stgraber> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> stgraber: nice work on LTSP lately
<stgraber> yeah, working full-time on it helps :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: Intrepid might work out afterall ;-)
<stgraber> I'm finishing the localapps implementation for ltsp-cluster now (testing it basically), then will propose the change upstream
<stgraber> basically it's about generating a "Local applications" menu with the softwares that are installed in the chroot
<stgraber> so you can do fullscreen youtube with firefox, blender, audacity or skype video conf which weren't possible before
<Eeyore-Jr> without a "fat" client?
<stgraber> yeah
<Eeyore-Jr> neat
<Eeyore-Jr> really neat
<Eeyore-Jr> how does that work?
<Eeyore-Jr> theoretically
<stgraber> softwares are installed in the chroot, an entry is added to /etc/ltsp/localapps-menu/ with a .desktop for that softwares
<stgraber> when the user session open, a rc.d script is run that'll generate a xdg menu off it
<stgraber> so the menu entries will appear on the server, clicking on it will set a X property that's read on the thin client and will trigger the software you clicked
<LaserJock> I'd love to be able to run chemistry apps locally
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, they run locally?
<LaserJock> that's been a big sticking point to me pushing to do an LTSP deployment in my department
<Eeyore-Jr> so to run large graphics you would still need a machine capable of doing it
<Eeyore-Jr> on the client side?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm
<Eeyore-Jr> so, how do you mix thin and fat then, still have to tell it by mac address?
<LaserJock> the point of localapps is to shift CPU load to the client
<stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, we were requested to make blender, celestia and some other edu software to work on thin clients, local apps help a lot for that :)
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: you have the local apps you want installed in the chroot
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: it's still a thin client
<stgraber> Eeyore-Jr: localapps can be turned on/off using the LOCALAPPS lts.conf parameter, so you can turn it off for computers that can't run it
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm confused sorta
<Eeyore-Jr> how does the server know when to turn them off?  mac address?
<Eeyore-Jr> listing ?
<stgraber> the menu being generated by the thin client, the server doesn't need to know about it
<Eeyore-Jr> can i keep asking questions without being annoying.  i'm still trying to understand what's going on
<Eeyore-Jr> the menu that is generated by the thin client is generated according to it's specs?
<Eeyore-Jr> it generates a "thin" menu if it has certian hardware specs?
<LaserJock> stgraber: I guess what Eeyore-Jr is asking is what happens if you have mixed thin clients, only some of which you want to run localapps on
<LaserJock> stgraber: can you set LOCLAPPS on a per/client basis?
<Eeyore-Jr> i was under the impression that "fat" clients were beefier machines, and requried a special mac addressing schema on the server to identify them
<stgraber> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: I think ^^ answers your question
<Eeyore-Jr> ok, let me re-phrase.  i have 450mhz, 256mb ram machines, but would like to run some gl games, which would require machines with higher specs, such as 1Ghz, 512MB, and 64MB video memory
<stgraber> you can turn on/off the localapps using lts.conf which uses mac address, so you can turn off localapps for some thin clients
<Eeyore-Jr> on a file on the server
<Eeyore-Jr> or a file with a mac address list so that heavy apps are not turned on
<stgraber> I'm working on ltsp-cluster where we have a control center that's used to generate lts.conf based on some attributes (including hardware specifications) but it's probably a bit too big for your own installation
<stgraber> (we use it with load balancing for really big networks)
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: lts.conf is on the server
<Eeyore-Jr> actually, i've been thinking about a bewolf ltsp cluster.  is that possible?
<Eeyore-Jr> parallel ltsp ?
<Eeyore-Jr> well, i think i have a better idea what's going on.  thx for the info, i'll put it in my planning
<Eeyore-Jr> it's late.  gnite
<Eeyore-Jr_> one thing i noticed is that there were full menus for ltsp.  menus for installing software, etc.  i assume menus can be customized.  installing software always brought up a password prompt.  i can see users confusion on this
<LaserJock> Eeyore-Jr: why?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav!
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<stgraber> hey sbalneav
<stgraber> sbalneav: I implemented a "Local applications" menu today, generated by the thin client from a config file in /etc/ltsp/localapps-menu/ :)
<sbalneav> Nice
<LaserJock> we should set a time for a Jaunty planning meeting
<stgraber> yep
<LaserJock> Wed. 20:00 UTC?
<stgraber> hmm, with release on Thursday, I'd prefer after-release
<stgraber> and 19:00 UTC would be better as I need to leave the office at 21:00 UTC (and last hour is usually quite busy)
<stgraber> Friday 19:00 UTC would be great (or any time starting from 12:00 UTC)
<sbalneav> Sigh
<sbalneav> Multibin printing doesn't work in OpenOffice.org in Intrepid.
<LaserJock> I can't do it earlier than 19:00 UTC on Friday
<LaserJock> but 19:00 would work
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no?
<sbalneav> No.
<sbalneav> I'll have to dig into it.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: can you tell if it's on the OO.o end?
<stgraber> LaserJock: ok, so let's go with Friday 19:00 UTC
<sbalneav> Ubuntu will never, EVER, make it big in business if it can't get this right.
<sbalneav> No idea.  It didn't work for hardy, either.
<sbalneav> I came up with a patch for cups upstream.
<sbalneav> the pstops filter was broken hard.
<sbalneav> Talked to Till in #ubuntu-devel, pointed him to the fix, but it's never been patched.
<sbalneav> Now cups has changed YET AGAIN, with the "all pdf all the time" printing method.
<sbalneav> so now, it's broken.
<sbalneav> again.
<sbalneav> And I'll have to fix it.
<sbalneav> Again.
<stgraber> Argh, looks like I found a way to break ltsp-cluster so my test terminal doesn't boot ... of course it's 30km away and my only way to access it until Monday is ssh ...
<stgraber> I wish I'd have my test lab at home, would be a lot easier
<LaserJock> stgraber: what about the next Wednesday?
<LaserJock> I just realized that Friday would be Halloween here
<LaserJock> and I'm not sure what my schedule will be since I have the day off
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what does multibin printing do btw?
<stgraber> oh right, forgot about halloween.
<stgraber> LaserJock: Wednesday early afternoon is fine, then I'll need to pack stuff for LTSP BTS
<LaserJock> so Nov. 5th at 20:00UTC
<LaserJock> that'd be one of our usual Edubuntu meeting times anyway
<stgraber> hmm, that's not really early afternoon in my tiemzone :)
<sbalneav> Well, with a laser printer in an office environment, you'll often have at least 3 bins:
<stgraber> 17:00UTC or 18:00UTC would be a lot better
<sbalneav> 1 for plain, one for letterhead, and an envelope feeder.
<sbalneav> And often, the manual feed tray filled with legal size.
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> I thought it was an LTSP thing :-)
<sbalneav> Currently, no matter what you set the paper tray as, it comes out on the default bin.
<sbalneav> Which means it's a complete non-starter to move to.
<LaserJock> stgraber: Ubuntu QA meeting is 17:00-18:00, should we go for 18:00?
<stgraber> ah right, the QA meeting :) yeah let's go with 18:00
<stgraber> I know of some people at Revolution Linux who will likely also be interested in attending the meeting
<stgraber> where do we do it ? #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm writing up an email to edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> stgraber: anywhere else you think I should send it?
<LaserJock> heck, maybe I should CC ubuntu-devel
<stgraber> yeah, ubuntu-devel may be good too
<stgraber> maybe edubuntu-users ? I'm not sure who we have on that list though (I'm not subscribed)
<stgraber> send it to the fridge mailinglist too so it gets added to the fridge
<stgraber> ubuntu-news-team@l.u.c that's
<highvoltage> stgraber: thanks :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hi LaserZ
<Eeyore-Jr__> stgraber: what is a test lab for you comprise of ?
<Eeyore-Jr__> i'd like to attend the meeting
<Eeyore-Jr_> hi.  will *untu and/or ltsp use a quad processor?
<Eeyore-Jr_> quad core?
<Nubae> Eeyore-Jr sure
<Eeyore-Jr_> neat.  that's what i'm picking out for the server
<Eeyore-Jr_> and 4G of ram
#edubuntu 2009-10-19
<LaserJock> evening all
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Evening
<LaserJock> sbalneav: how's it going?
<sbalneav> Packing
<LaserJock> sbalneav: packing?
<sbalneav> For the trip
<sbalneav> Flight to jammcq's place is tomorrow at 11:30 :)
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> is he around?
<sbalneav> In the channel?  Not that I've seen.
<LaserJock> we're going to need some testing on tomorrow's (20091020) daily DVD .iso
<LaserJock> the changes to get LTSP in the F4 menu and not on by default were made today
<alkisg> LaserJock: uh, deadline?
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, starting tomorrow and going until the 22nd (Release Candidate) will be critical
<alkisg> OK, I'll try to test on the 21nd
<alkisg> 21st
#edubuntu 2009-10-20
<LaserJock> evening all
<Lns> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> so our daily build should be good tomorrow
<LaserJock> oh wait, it should be good *now*
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: you sure you want to retire? ;-)
<jsgotangco> even Michael Jordan came back
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<jsgotangco> kidding
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: lol
<jbicha> LaserJock: we're still waiting on the LTSP option for the DVD?
<LaserJock> jbicha: nope, should be in the daily from the 20th
<jbicha> LaserJock: you mean tomorrow?
<LaserJock> jbicha: well, it's up now
<LaserJock> jbicha: it's the 20th in London :-)
<jbicha> LaserJock:  yeah it's 6am on the 20th here, but LTSP isn't in today's build
<LaserJock> jbicha: not in the F4 menu?
<jbicha> no
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> we're saved and the universe is preserved :-)
<LaserJock> we *really* need to document this
<LaserJock> but the F4 menu changes depending on what boot option you've selected
<sbalneav> LaserJock: :(
<sbalneav> Had enough?
<sbalneav> I was on the road yesterday. I didn't see it until right now.
<LaserJock> oh, my email?
<sbalneav> yeah
<LaserJock> well, actually, I wouldn't say I've "had enough"
<LaserJock> more I've had too much :-)
<LaserJock> it's just time
<sbalneav> yeah.
<LaserJock> I've got a number of real life things I need to take care of
<sbalneav> You're still coming down to maine, right?
<LaserJock> and so I think it's time for me to become an enthusiastic user
<LaserJock> sure!
<LaserJock> it's retirement, not exile ;-)
<sbalneav> ok, I'll have to get you to show me how to do the dvd stuff, I'll take that on.  I suppose I should probably go for motu now, o it'll be hard to get package fixes in.
<LaserJock> yeah, I think it'll be time to tap into some of the broader Ubuntu sponsoring resources as well
<LaserJock> Edubuntu has for the most part been quite internal
<LaserJock> I'm always amazed at how willing Ubuntu devs are to lend a hand
<LaserJock> whether that be cjwatson fixing .iso building problems, davmor2 doing .iso testing, or slangasek making sure the release is on track
<LaserJock> I don't think it's unreasonable to ask around on #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-devel for help with packaging (how-to and sponsorship)
<LaserJock> so
<LaserJock> we're sitting pretty good for Release Candidate I think
<LaserJock> the only issues I'm concerned about at this point are:
<sbalneav> Well, hopefully, I can get mostly up to speed this week on packaging with yoy.
<LaserJock> 1) when installing from the Live side Ubiquity doesn't seem to uninstall the extra packages (ubiquity itself and the unnecessary lang-packs)
<LaserJock> cjwatson knows about the issue but is mystified as to why it's happening
<LaserJock> 2) I'm unsure if our language support on the text-based installer side is adequate
<LaserJock> I put on the top 10-12 used languages + greek and finnish
<LaserJock> we're just under 3GB
<LaserJock> I could put more on
<LaserJock> but my primary concern is that we have full support for the languages that *are* on there
<ogra> LaserJock, you come to BTS ?
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> ogra: I am
<ogra> woah, cool !
<LaserJock> ogra: sbalneav twisted my arm :-)
<LaserJock> ogra: he told me grand stories of Maine lobster
<ogra> good, i owe him a beer then :)
<LaserJock> jbicha!
<jbicha> LaserJock: howdy
<LaserJock> jbicha: hey, the DVD works with LTSP, we were just doing it wrong :-)
<jbicha> happy 5 years of Ubuntu!
<LaserJock> jbicha: you need to first select the text-based installer option in the main boot screen
<LaserJock> jbicha: then if you hit F4 the additional options show up, including LTSP
<jbicha> really? /me going to test
<jbicha> LaserJock:  that is so crazy; I guess it makes sense though
<LaserJock> jbicha: yeah, it makes sense after you think about it
<LaserJock> we can't install LTSP frome the live installer
<LaserJock> so it shouldn't show that as available
<LaserJock> but it's not intuitive that the F4 menu should depend on the context
<LaserJock> so we need to document that *really* well
<jbicha> LaserJock: yeah, definitely in the release notes
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks like we've picked up another developer with jbicha :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: agreed
<jbicha> sbalneav: as long as someone has the time to mentor, I'd like to help
<LaserJock> jbicha: just remember that #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-devel are there to help too
<chang-li> hi, i installed ltsp in xubuntu-9.04 , problem- dhcp3-server is not auto starting after bootup. But starts manually.
<sbalneav> jbicha: I know a small amount of packaging, and LaserJock's going to teach me more this weekend.  From there, I'll probably go on to motu.  If you're interested, peraps we can wander through it together :)
 * alkisg also signs up for the free packaging lesson :D
<sbalneav> chang-li: You might need to use update-rc.d to make sure it's started.
<alkisg> chang-li: do you have a static ip in /etc/network/interfaces? or do you use network manager?
<chang-li> sbalneav: i will try that. I am logged in via ssh.
<chang-li> alkisg: static for terminal clients. Clients boot up after dhcp3 is started no problem.
<alkisg> chang-li: I had this problem when I used network manager to assign a static ip to eth1 in my ltsp server
<LaserJock> alkisg: can you test the DVD to make sure the greek lang packs work OK?
<chang-li> alkisg: wan is dhcp
<alkisg> LaserJock: I did some days ago - I'll try to download it again... damn slow adsl :(
<LaserJock> alkisg: yeah, sorry about that. are you using rsync?
<alkisg> Nope - I can only download at 200KB/sec no matter the protocol :)
<chang-li> sbalneav: update-rc.d needs a missing option.
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, but rsync means you should only have to download a little bit
<alkisg> LaserJock: ah, does it do that even with a single .iso file? nice, I didn't know..
<LaserJock> alkisg: yes
<alkisg> LaserJock: do you have the command line handy?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> alkisg: I've got an alias so I'll paste you two things
<LaserJock> rsynciso rsync://cdimages.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/dvd/current/karmic-dvd-i386.iso karmic-dvd-i386.iso
<alkisg> Merci :)
<LaserJock> rsynciso='rsync -az --progress'
<LaserJock> in the ubuntu-qa-tools bzr repo there some kind of cool python script to do iso downloading
<LaserJock> but I didn't have much success with it
<LaserJock> #ubuntu-testing might have more info on that
<alkisg> Well if it works for you it's good enough for me :)
<sbalneav> chang-li: you'll have to lookup what the correct parms will be.  I *think* update-rc.d dhcp3-server start   should work, but you may have to check.
<chang-li> sbalneav: it is listed in rc2 rc3 to start. i will check.
<chang-li> i removed references to dhcp3-server in rc.d, then reinstalled -they are now s20dhcp3-server . rebooted, Sill service does not auto start. only manually.
<alkisg> chang-li: can you upload your /etc/network/interfaces to pastebin?
<chang-li> alkisg: ok give me a min.
<chang-li> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=d16c463a0
<alkisg> chang-li: yes, you don't have a static ip declared there. As I was saying before, that's your problem...
<chang-li> alkisg: it reports it in ifconfig. strange.
<chang-li> alkisg: ok so i will add it in interfaces.
<alkisg> chang-li: the problem is that network manager sets up the connection *after* dhcp3-server is started
<alkisg> So you should make a "system connection" if you wanted to use nm
<alkisg> But there's a bug preventing this to happen on systems with 2 nics
<alkisg> So the only viable way to do it is with /etc/network/interfaces. Old ways work best... :)
<chang-li> yea , ltsp-manager comes up blank.
<chang-li> alkisg: I corrected /etc/network/interfaces & rebooted . dhcp3-server now starts auto. the network manager on the taskbar shows an X, and settings are blank. should I just delete that icon to avoid future problems?
<alkisg> chang-li: network manager doesn't manage interfaces that are declared in /etc/network/interfaces, so you shouldn't have any problems either way
<alkisg> I tend to remove network manager from servers (except for my laptop, which I also use as an ltsp server)
<chang-li> alkisg:  Thanks  for the assistance. :)
<alkisg> You're welcome
<chang-li> the ltsp-manager when launched displays a blank window. I have a client connected. What should be displayed?
<sbalneav> chang-li: ltsp-manager's broken.  Its been "dead upstream" for a bit
<sbalneav> Use iTalc
<chang-li> ok will try it. thanks .
<jbicha> here's a minor quirk that is probably unimportant, but the default hostname when you use the Karmic text installer is "edubuntu", but from the live installer it is "<username>-laptop> or whatever
<chang-li> sbalneav: I made italc keys, are you using a globalpath for public keys for the terminal clients?
<alkisg> In LTSP, installing italc is as simple as "sudo apt-get install italc-master". No other configuration needed.
<chang-li> I did that, but it asked to generate keys, which I then did also.
<sbalneav> chang-li: I'm not sure, I don't use iTalc myself.
<alkisg> ? It shouldn't be asking anything, it generates the keys automatically...
<alkisg> ...but in any case, the ltsp clients use the same keys as the server, as they run italc from the server
<jbicha> bug 456477 filed, I'm sure you were already aware of it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456477 in edubuntu-meta "After installation, Edubuntu complains about incomplete language support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/456477
<sbalneav> jbicha: From a personal standpoint, I know from my work with a lot of people in Brazil that internet access for some people is... spotty.  So I'd vote to make sure we get those packages on the DVD, so if you DON'T have access to the internet, we at least dont have a broken install.
<highvolt1ge> hi everyone
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage
<jbicha> sbalneav: that's fine; it's even easy enough to remove the extra languages in System>Language Support
<fasthans> hello everybody
<fasthans> I am new
<fasthans> I would like to help and Scott told me to coordinate any efforts in this group
<fasthans1> hello.... anybody here?
<alkisg> sbalneav: ^^^ ?
<fasthans1> hello. I am uwe geercken from germany.
<sbalneav> Hello<!
<sbalneav> Welcome.
<sbalneav> fasthans1: So, you might start by telling us some of your skills
<fasthans1> well
<fasthans1> thanks for the welcome
<fasthans1> I am an IT guy working for a Swiss company in Zurich as IT manager
<sbalneav> Know any programming languages?  C? Python?
<fasthans1> I am a programmer. I create java servlet based webapps mostly in conjunction with apache velocity and beanshell or groovy
<fasthans1> apart from that, two hours a week I teach Linux in our local school.
<sbalneav> Have you created an account on launchpad yet?
<fasthans1> at work I also administer a lot of systems and currently I am building up a datawarehouse based on infobright/mysql, and pentaho
<fasthans1> yes I do have a launchpad account but have not really used it.
<sbalneav> ok, well one good place to start to help out would be bugsquashing.
<sbalneav> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<fasthans1> ok. let me check - or maybe you want to tell me what it is.
<sbalneav> As well, right now, testing installs with the daily builds for testing the release would be good as well.
<sbalneav> fasthans1: Well, those are a list of curently open bugs.
<sbalneav> We have many different packages.
<sbalneav> That page lists all the currently open bugs with the packages that we're installing.
<fasthans1> hmm. I like testing installs.
<fasthans1> I continue to wipe my computers and install something new...
<sbalneav> Well, that would be helpful
<fasthans1> so e.g. I see "italc in ubuntu" what do I do now
<sbalneav> Are you subscribed to the edubuntu-users and edubuntu-devel mail groups.
<fasthans1> yes edubuntu-users
<sbalneav> Well, click on it, and you'll be taken to the list of currently open bugs.
<fasthans1> its slow...
<sbalneav> If you want to develop, edubuntu-devel is what you should be subscribed to.
<fasthans1> ok I have the list
<sbalneav> So from there, you can look at the bugs.  Then, I suppose, you can try to test for the bug, figure out what the problem is and then post patches or info to the bug.
<fasthans1> tell me more about patches
<fasthans1> you mean a verbal description of a solution or real code?
<sbalneav> Well, you're a programmer, so you should understand patching progams.
<sbalneav> either/or.
<fasthans1> well I am not a C programmer
<sbalneav> Until you get access to actuallyix the code, you'll have to find someone with authority to apply your patch.
<fasthans1> but of course I can provide the logic if I can figure it out
<sbalneav> fasthans1: Well, most pograms in linux are written in either C or C++
<fasthans1> ok I understand. excuse me for asking these questions
<sbalneav> So if you're looking to fix bugs, you'll need to learn either one of these.
<sbalneav> Some of the bugs may be simple, like wrong owneship of files, or missing directories.
<fasthans1> ok. but maybe not on the first day.
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> There's no time-limit here :)
<fasthans1> good. I have a LTSP server at my local school where I teach.
<sbalneav> Probably you'll spend at least a couple of minths just wanting to look at bugs, and even see if you can duplicate them.
<sbalneav> There's no rush, we're in this for the long haul. :)
<fasthans1> and I am setting up a server here at home (a small one) and I have put together a thin client.
<fasthans1> yes no rush. I have learned LTSP and Edubuntu the last two years as much as possible.
<fasthans1> will I always meet you here? is this the place to meet?
<sbalneav> Yes.  This week I'm in-and-out, but I'm usually always here.
<fasthans1> and your located in the US? (I am from germany)
<sbalneav> I may not be monitoring the channel, but I'm always idling here.
<sbalneav> No, I'm from Canada
<sbalneav> ogra's also from Germany
<sbalneav> highvoltage's from SA
<sbalneav> stgraber's from Canada as well
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> We're all over )
<fasthans1> anybody from europe?
<fasthans1> or in other words: from my timezone
<sbalneav> alkisg's from Greece
<alkisg> (hi fasthans1 :))
<fasthans1> hi
<fasthans1> actually I am registered as "fasthans" where does the "1" come from?
<fasthans1> I work for a worldwide company and also have some IT colleagues in Greece...
<alkisg> Maybe some problem with your irc client? I see you as "fasthans1"
<sbalneav> Not sure.  Where did you register this userid with?  Launchpad? Or freenode?
<fasthans1> freenode
<alkisg> fasthans1: try: /nick fasthans
<fasthans1> right now I am using pidgin.
<alkisg> Does it give you any errors?
<fasthans1> no. but real name is also not right.
<fasthans1> but don't worry. I will monitor that the next days.
<fasthans1> so I like to work a lot with data, transformations, awk sed, datawarehousing, databases, etc
<fasthans1> my wife is italian, so I also talk italian and I have three kids: Christian 15, Stefano 12 and Laura 9
<fasthans1> I would be very happy to help but I need a little bit of help to get started.
<fasthans1> I have made some presentations at mysql conferences, linux days and oracle
<fasthans1> some for writing so much...
<fasthans1> at work we use citrix and thin clients for 1600 simultaeneous users around the clock
<fasthans1> worldwide we have about 33000 employees
<sbalneav> Sounds big
<fasthans1> other skills I have: I never give up, I love computers, I hate it not finding a solution.... ;-)
<chang-li> alkisg: I had to do some config file editing, but finally got italc to work. Maybe it's just my xubuntu that things are not installing correctly.
<alkisg> chang-li: what config file editing?
<alkisg> chang-li: and most importantly, what's your italc-master version? dpkg -l italc-master|grep ^ii
<chang-li> alkisg: I had to edit /etc/xdg/iTALC Solutions/iTALC.conf,
<chang-li> alkisg: enter chroot of ltsp & add italc client.
<alkisg> chang-li: there are 2 ways to install italc. Putting it to the chroot is the hard way :)
<sbalneav> ok, I have to head out.
<sbalneav> Be on later.
<alkisg> chang-li: doesn't /etc/xdg/autostart/ica.desktop autorun in xubuntu?
<chang-li> alkisg: ii  italc-master                               1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu9            Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
<alkisg> If xubuntu is xdg compliant, it should just run when the users logon, and no installation to the chroot would be necessary...
<alkisg> !italc-master
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about italc-master
<alkisg> !info italc-master
<ubottu> italc-master (source: italc): Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu9 (jaunty), package size 1084 kB, installed size 1684 kB
<alkisg> Sounds ok...
<chang-li> alkisg: anyway, it's up and running.
<alkisg> chang-li: well I was asking to make it easier for others wanting to use italc on xubuntu, but anyway, np.
<chang-li> alkisg: I'm not sure, but i had a lot of problems getting this puppy to work. I had to install via network nfs.
<alkisg> Ugh :)
<chang-li> at 1st i tried pcbsd with terminal logins, but it crashed quite often. so i went to ltsp.
<fasthans> if I want to test installs, how would you typically do this?
<fasthans> be back later...
<fasthans> hello OsKa
<OsKa> hi
<fasthans> I am new here. trying to undertsnad how I can help...
<OsKa> what can you do ?
<fasthans> well I don't know yet.
<fasthans> I could start by testing installs.
<fasthans> hello everyone
#edubuntu 2009-10-21
<LaserJock> evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ping
<LaserJock> ok, we need testers!!
<openyost> Does anyone know if it is too late to.....
<LaserJock> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20091021/
<openyost> Ok nevermind LaserJock answered my question
<LaserJock> openyost: to late for what?
<openyost> I was about to ask about testing
<LaserJock> we need http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<LaserJock> filled out using the DVD from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20091021/
<fasthans> hello highvoltage
<fasthans> sbalneav told me to come here if I want to help and mentioned your name
<LaserJock> fasthans: what kinds of things are you interested in?
<fasthans> well I am new
<fasthans> I don't know yet where I can best help
<fasthans> I have a few computers and I am constantly wiping and installing something...
<LaserJock> fasthans: well, why don't you tell us a little about yourself and we can see
<fasthans> I did that yesterday, but no sweat ;-)
<LaserJock> ah, sorry for the repeat
<fasthans> I am programming in java, groovy, beanshell with apache velocity. java servlets, webapps. I am building a datawarehouse based on infobright/mysql and pentahoe. I do a lot of data migration jobs, work with databases, creating interfaces. work with windows and linux but mainly linux
<fasthans> ... and I am teching linux at our local school of our little town since two years using edubuntu
<fasthans> teaching I meant to say
<LaserJock> cool
<fasthans> I came to edubuntu and ltsp because the school forbid to touch the existing system
<fasthans> so I put together a server and hooked up the clients and bootet 15 clients to the surprise of the head of school and the math techer ;-)
<LaserJock> heh
<fasthans> mean while they learned to appreciate the alternative...
<fasthans> so. I want to help.
<fasthans> but difficult to find where to start. so many new people, many things I don't know or understand.
<fasthans> the company I work for is heavy in windows. this year - after 4 years I worked there - I made it get some linux redhat 64 bit servers. my company is also heavy into Citrix
<fasthans> and thin clients...
<fasthans> and I working on replacing all that with linux and thin clients one day... maybe in the next 50 years.....
<fasthans> its a long way the top if you wanna ... (anyone know this song?)
<LaserJock> fasthans: ok, so you've got some LTSP experience
<LaserJock> fasthans: got some technical experience
<fasthans> yes. some
<LaserJock> those are good
<fasthans> I have a running system so I don't touch it too much.
<fasthans> I have to teach each week on this system.
<fasthans> but now I have a seperae system at home. not qute the same, but I can test things here.
<LaserJock> fasthans: the main areas are: testing, bug triage, packaging, documentation (which includes wiki work, edubuntu.org website, and/or docbook), artwork
<fasthans> ok. lets see
<fasthans> testing I could do. is this more testing of individual software or a whole distribution?
<LaserJock> any of it
<fasthans> what is bug triage? (I am german )
<fasthans> no artwork. please if you don't want to upset people
<LaserJock> "triage" is a term used like in a war when the medics go through the wounded and figure out priority, and make sure immediate things are done
<LaserJock> so bug triage is the process where you take an initial bug report and you essentially turn it into something the developers (doctors) can fix or work on
<fasthans> I am not a native englisch speaking person. I do speak english quite well I think, but I don't know if it is enough for documentation purposes.
<fasthans> you verify the existence of the bug and look for solutins?
<LaserJock> and ask for needed info
<LaserJock> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<fasthans> that sound interesting. good for a pea counter like me...
<fasthans> but where do I start.
<LaserJock> the link above lists Edubuntu packages
<LaserJock> and gives their open bug count
<fasthans> yes. I have seen that yesterday. and I have an account. I looked through some of the listed items yesterday.
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
<LaserJock> ^^ is some good instructions on triaging bugs
<fasthans> ok tks.
<LaserJock> I think the thing we need most right now is to go through the whole list
<LaserJock> and get rid of the old bugs
<LaserJock> like ones where the people never responded to give needed info
<fasthans> those are only edubuntu related issues?
<LaserJock> fasthans: that first link I gave you, yeah
<LaserJock> as you can see there's ~ 270 open bugs
<fasthans> ok. I can do that. what is the right way to list and communicate my findings?
<LaserJock> to start with, if somebody is around here you can just ask
<fasthans> ok.
<LaserJock> also #ubuntu-bugs is the central channel for bug work for the whole Ubuntu project
<LaserJock> they can give help too if it's a bit dead in here
<fasthans> but please don't be angry if I produce a lot of questions.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> don't worry about that
<fasthans> you will need to have some patience with me.
<LaserJock> you have to realize, we were all just like you at one point
<LaserJock> we don't mind questions
<fasthans> ok. so I will try to provide a daily dose of my 2 cents...
<LaserJock> I'm going to be coming and going a little here, I'm trying to get some experiments done
<Lns> fasthans: you have a lot of db experience? this is a shot in the dark, but i know for one it would be REALLY nice to have a user progress mechanism in tuxtype. (join #tux4kids)
<LaserJock> but if you ask, I'll answer at some point
<fasthans> I can do some translation work if that is necessary - german and italian.
<fasthans> lns: yes I work every dy with databases.
<fasthans> lns, but reduced it mainly to mysql and infobright.
<Lns> fasthans: if you enjoy it this might be a good project to help out the tux4kids apps.. typing tutors are a big thing in schools obviously and having a progress tracking system in open source typing tutors like tuxtype would be phenominal
<fasthans> yes no problem.
<fasthans> I will check out the #tux4kids room
<LaserJock> darn it, this DVD is kicking my butt
<flint> highvoltage, I am UTC incapable... when / where is your next meeting?
#edubuntu 2009-10-22
<Saj0577> hey guys/girls anyone around got few questions :)
<LaserJock> Saj0577: shoot
<Saj0577> just looking at the website (as well as the xubuntu) and noticed the content is not exactly upto date and just wondering who responsible for keeping it up to date really is it the commmuinity or canonical
<LaserJock> the community
<LaserJock> and yeah, there is some out-datedness for sure
<Saj0577> yeah seems the ubuntu one is the only one thats kept upto date which is a bit poor
<LaserJock> well, they have a full time webmaster
<LaserJock> and a number of marketing people
<Saj0577> is it because people forgot or there just simply is not the people to do it do you know?
<Saj0577> only seems to be the blog/news thats kept upto date on the variants
<Lns> Saj0577: take a look at the edubuntu-users list and you'll find some discussion regarding the website updates
<Saj0577> Lns: okay il take a look now. cheers.
<LaserJock> Saj0577: it's quite a bit of work to keep everything going
<LaserJock> Saj0577: and since we're all volunteers with limited time it's often a matter of "getting around to it"
<LaserJock> we're also not professional website maintainers for the most part
<LaserJock> so not a lot of hands, not a lot of time, lots to do, and a lot of other things that need doing
<Saj0577> LaserJock: well if thats the case do you guys need a hand? I would not have a great deal of time to provide to edubuntu as a whole but i could certainly keep the website upto date in some spare time i coudl find.
<LaserJock> Saj0577: that's certainly something that could be discussed. I'd email the edubuntu-devel lists with your thoughts
<Saj0577> LaserJock: cheers. is it a open ML i.e so i dont have to wait to be authorised
<LaserJock> Saj0577: as long as you subscribe to the list first you can post freely
<Saj0577> oright cool cheers.
<LaserJock> everybody is more than welcome to participate on edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ping
<jbicha> LaserJock: good evening
<LaserJock> jbicha: hi
<jbicha> LaserJock: I'm a bit worried that we'll know how to do what you do as you're leaving to focus on other things
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I don't plan on never returning email
<jbicha> I can go ahead and ask in #ubuntu-devel if anyone's willing to sponsor my moodle pre-depends patch, right?
<LaserJock> I'm going to hopefully spend this weekend with sbalneav and stgraber at a conference
<LaserJock> jbicha: I think it's too late for Karmic
<LaserJock> jbicha: but for sure it would be good to look at that first thing for Lucid
<LaserJock> jbicha: I'm concerned that there might be something deeper going on
<LaserJock> for instance, we're moving it from Recommends to Pre-depends
<jbicha> ScottK said yesterday (today your time) that bug fixes don't need feature freeze exception up until ~Sunday
<LaserJock> now Recommends should mean that it (the DB servers you've moved) shouldn't be necessary to run
<jbicha> my patch seems pretty simple to me
<LaserJock> obviously we have a situation where moodle won't even *install* without them, which makes me wonder what has gone on
<LaserJock> the patch itself is simple
<LaserJock> but this late in the game I'm very hesitant to upload something that invasive
<LaserJock> I tried to ask the release manager before, I'll try again now
<jbicha> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> but we kind of have some bigger issues too right now
<LaserJock> I have yet to have a successful install of what is supposed to be our Release Candidate
<jbicha> really? it works for me
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> there are all these language packs
<LaserJock> and packages are not getting removed as they are supposed to
<LaserJock> *and* the LTSP install I just did is completely borked
<LaserJock> it won't even start GDM
<jbicha> my Acer Aspire One won't really start GDM off the Ubuntu live CD...but it actually runs the installed Karmic fine
<jbicha> I thought the lang pack issue was partly the ubuntu-edu-primary and -preschool's fault recommending the gcompris languages
<jbicha> where do you even fix the DVD issues?
<LaserJock> jbicha: !!
<LaserJock> jbicha: you're absolutely right
<LaserJock> darn it darn it darn it
<LaserJock> how am I going to fix this?
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> I didn't read all the way to the end of your bug report, sorry
<jbicha> sorry I didn't emphasize it more; I usually skim-read myself too
<LaserJock> so the options are
<LaserJock> 1) revert the change of adding the lang packs to the gcompris-sound-*
<LaserJock> 2) only have ubuntu-edu-* depend on gcompris-sound-en and put the rest as .debs on the DVD
<jbicha> it looks like the "incomplete language packages" add up to 408MB / 1425MB installed
<jbicha> yeah, why does gcompris-sound-pt for instance depend on language-pack-gnome-pt-base ?
<LaserJock> jbicha: the release manager said we want Depends, not Pre-depends
<LaserJock> to get the translated text
<jbicha> LaserJock: Debian has the same issue with moodle in sid, at least
<LaserJock> hmm
<jbicha> because I tested both my bugs with sid
<jbicha> LaserJock: what they're saying is that the moodle packaging needs to check if the database is running, and if not, to start it ?
<jbicha> LaserJock: I can try adding the db as just a depends instead of recommends, unfortunately I have to leave for work soon
<alkisg> sbalneav: ping?
<LaserJock> jbicha: yeah, go for it
<alkisg_work> Good morning
<LaserJock> anybody try installing LTSP from the DVD?
<jbicha> LaserJock: "depends" works fine for the moodle issue
<LaserJock> jbicha: k
<jbicha> LaserJock: sorry for the trouble, I do understand depends a bit better today though
<LaserJock> well, it didn't occur to me that depends would be different than recommends that way
<jbicha> I think slangasek is happier with the patch now too
<LaserJock> yeah, I would imagine
<LaserJock> ok sweet, we got 100% testing coverage
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you here?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we need to start working on the release notes and release announcement
<LaserJock> and getting the website ready (front page and download page at least)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, I'll be spending focus on the MC meeting in just a few minutes though
<LaserJock> oh?!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: in terms of website it feels apprpiate though to start over
<LaserJock> is that in #ubuntu-meeting?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think it's mc meeting in a few minutes
 * highvoltage scrambles for diary and wiki pages
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, in ~27 minutes, #ubuntu-meeting
<jbicha> I don't know if it's appropriate for release notes, but SchoolTool does not yet work with the upgraded Zope packages in Karmic, so anyone dependent on that should hold off on upgrading
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure if that's something we should mention or not
<LaserJock> presumably SchoolTool will fix that at some point
<jbicha> they've begun work on fixing that, and they said their goal is to be in the official repositories for Lucid
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> it's been a long time
<jbicha> since they aren't in the repos now, it probably doesn't meet the threshold, but how popular is it anyway?
<LaserJock> I have no idea
<highvoltage> LaserJock: imho it would be something quite important to mention
<LaserJock> why?
<LaserJock> SchoolTool is not an Ubuntu problem
<LaserJock> and if they fix it in a month or two
<highvoltage> oh wait, schooltool isn't in the archives? yeah then you're right
<highvoltage> sorry
<LaserJock> then our release notes are then wrong
<LaserJock> I'd rather them just fix it :-)
<highvoltage> It's been a while since I used schooltool so I didn't realise it's not in the archives anymore, my bad
<LaserJock> it hasn't been in the archives for a few years now ;-)
<LaserJock> they never could get it to work with Ubuntu's version of zope
<LaserJock> so they forked it
<highvoltage> heh, I think I actually last used it when it was still installed with edubuntu by default :)
<highvoltage> zope sounds so messy. it's supposedly very good but it seems to cause lots of pain for those who use it
<LaserJock> I'm kinda worried that LTSP install won't work from the DVD
<LaserJock> davmor2 didn't have problems but in my Virtualbox installs the resulting desktop won't log in
<LaserJock> it just throws a bunch of gconf errors
#edubuntu 2009-10-23
<sbalneav> Evening all
<openyost> What type of testing needs to be done in the next week?
<sbalneav> openyost: Lots :)
<sbalneav> Dowload images, burn them
<sbalneav> Test installation, how the system works once installed, etc.
<openyost> Ok.  Any specific things to check for?
<LaserJock> jbicha: ok, so I just uploaded your moodle patch (I tweaked the changelog a little bit)
<LaserJock> jbicha: we'll see if slangasek takes it
<jbicha> LaserJock: thank you, it also sounds like you figured out the language pack issue
<sbalneav> Morning all
<LaserJock> jbicha: well
<LaserJock> jbicha: I wouldn't call it a real fix
<LaserJock> jbicha: I just made it so that people who want something other than English are going to have to install it themselves
<LaserJock> although I do provide the .deb files and have them installed in the live session
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, you heading out today?
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> jbicha: it made it \o/
<jbicha> LaserJock: I should get it backported to Jaunty also, right?
<LaserJock> I don't know, you could try
<jbicha> LaserJock: I don't think the localhost issue was a problem w/ Jaunty so we shouldn't backport that since it's not a bug there?
<LaserJock> right
<jbicha> LaserJock: where should I find a sponsor for main packages once you move on, do I just ask in #ubuntu-devel ?
<LaserJock> stgraber is also a Core Developer
<LaserJock> and there is the ubuntu-main-sponsors Launchpad team
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jbicha> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> and my edubuntu-meta upload got accepted
<LaserJock> highvoltage: around?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, slightly
<LaserJock> highvoltage: are you going to have any time this weekend to work on release notes and announcement?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep, I'll give it a bash tomorrow (have people over currently)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: if I'm around let me know, we can gobby or something
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok great, I'll give you a ping on IRC and jabber
<LaserJock> k, awesome
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I *think* i've done all the fixing we need done on the DVD
<LaserJock> and jbicha got moodle fixed
<highvoltage> moodle was broken for jaunty right?
<LaserJock> even though we're not shipping it, it's good to not have it be broken
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> i think for hardy too
<LaserJock> jbicha was talking about maybe doing an SRU earlier
<LaserJock> hardy's got big issues
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> I don't know if we can do the same treatment or not
<LaserJock> but hardy is an LTS so it's worth looking into
<ogra> yep
<ogra> well, if the current karmic package works but an SRU is to much, at least a backport request would be nice
<LaserJock> I don't know that there are enough resources to handle much for non-LTS SRUs
<LaserJock> in general
<LaserJock> I also had to drop the gcompris sound packages from Recommends on the ubuntu-edu-*
<LaserJock> which kinda stinks
<ogra> well, it will surely be handled with lower prio
<LaserJock> if I did the seed work correctly they'll all be installed in the Live session
<LaserJock> and the .debs will be in the pool
<LaserJock> but having to install language support for 16 other languages is a bit much, IMO
<LaserJock> we should really hook that up to the language selector
<LaserJock> gah
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> s/we/somebody/
<ogra> or even make it a dep of language-pack-blah
<ogra> but its a bit hard to make that a conditional
<LaserJock> I think you can do "if gcompris is going to be installed and language X is used, install gcompris-sound-X" in Ubiquity at least
<LaserJock> I'm not sure about d-i
<LaserJock> sbalneav: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-October/009729.html
<LaserJock> sbalneav: which points to http://freshmeat.net/projects/gosa/
<Black_Mage> is there a software for training relative pitch in edubuntu, or in general is ther a free software app for taht?
<sbalneav> Black_Mage: Music training, you means?
<Black_Mage> yes i guess
<sbalneav> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7606
<sbalneav> That might be a good starting point
<Black_Mage> thanks :)
<sbalneav> http://www.solfege.org/
<sbalneav> solfege is an installable package.  It might do what you want
<sbalneav> You can find it in synaptic
<Black_Mage> i actually use arch linux, entered here cos i figured that people who understand in educational software will sit here :P
<Black_Mage> hey cool this app is exacly what i need
<Black_Mage> thanks
<sbalneav> No Problem
#edubuntu 2009-10-24
<jammcq> LaserJock: so.... not coming?
<jammcq> sbalneav: ping
<LaserJock> jammcq: I don't think so, no :(
<jammcq> bummer
<LaserJock> yeah, totally
<jammcq> I understand, things come up.  but... we'll be back here next year
<LaserJock> yeah, hopefully things will be much more figured out then :-)
<sbalneav> jammcq: pong
<sbalneav> jammcq: Welcome back to #edubuntu :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: OK, if you're not making it here, would you be willing to spend, say, 2 hours on the phone some evening in the next couple of weeks to give me some private tutoring lessons on packaging?
<sbalneav> My dime on the phone call.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yes yes, of course
 * sbalneav hugs LaserJock 
 * LaserJock wishes he was in Maine
 * sbalneav slides LaserJock an iBeer
<OsKa> i'd like to try ubuntu ltsp, without the DVD download
<OsKa> somebody point me in the general direction?
<LaserJock> OsKa: you the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<LaserJock> *use
<OsKa> k, thx
<OsKa> is rc out?
<OsKa> do i wait till the general release?
<LaserJock> or if you don't want to do that I think you can install ltsp-server-standalone
<LaserJock> RC is out
<LaserJock> it should be pretty much the same as the final release
<OsKa> iirc, i did ltsp-server-standalone on the last install
<OsKa> i've always found beta stable, and everything else a mess :(
<OsKa> server install ?
<OsKa> er, nm
<alkisg> I've switched my clients to using NFS homes, and now they're experiencing "grayed windows" every few minutes; like if the active window hangs for a few secs. Has anyone else experienced this with NFS?
<DamegedSpy> Hi?
<DamegedSpy> Someone there?
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<DamegedSpy> Can you please share tips in convicing a school to run linux?
<DamegedSpy> I am doing a Pro cons comparation with Windows XP SP1
<DamegedSpy> Can someone redirect me to an irc related to linux in schools?
<alkisg> #edubuntu *is* related to linux in schools, but in weekends not many people hang around here
<DamegedSpy> Yeah, I know. I mean for making a school change from Windows to Linux(Edubuntu)
<alkisg> Well, it's a big subject... there are lots of stories for succesful migration of schools to linux in the internet, I'm sure you can find pros/cons there,
<alkisg> a few are: easier administration, no malware, cheaper, reuse old hardware,
<DamegedSpy> Ok, I mean for talking it with teachers or staff of my school.
<alkisg> (xp sp1? that's unsupported)
<DamegedSpy> I know a LUG near me.
<DamegedSpy> No sorry type wrong SP3
<DamegedSpy> The LUG meats in another 2 months
<DamegedSpy> meets*
<alkisg> Well you can talk about the above pros with the teachers, I'm sure they'll be able to understand "cheaper" ;)
<DamegedSpy> :P Well, the problem is that they need some software you know, the dumb excuse of always.
<alkisg> ...but I don't think you'll be able to find a full list of them in an irc channel...
<alkisg> Most edu* software here in greece runs fine under wine,
<DamegedSpy> Game maker
<alkisg> and there are some educational apps in edubuntu, kde_edu etc
<DamegedSpy> Flash(The editor)
<alkisg> You can search for them in the wine app compatibility list
<alkisg> E.g. for game maker: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2965
<DamegedSpy> I have already done that, and I am about to test them myself.
<DamegedSpy> I am migrating this new old computer to Kubuntu :D
<alkisg> But it'd probably be a lie to tell them that they could switch to linux and keep using all their old software
<alkisg> E.g. I had people here asking for office on linux... well, if they aren't ready to switch to openoffice, don't bother telling them about linux
<alkisg> *microsoft office
<DamegedSpy> Well, here they will change from M$ Office 2000.
<DamegedSpy> The IT department recieve hardly 2K CAD a year.
<DamegedSpy> So they have no expectations of going Vista or 7
<DamegedSpy> If I archive to convince an IT Teacher for testing in one unused old computer the rest should be easier.
<alkisg> Also, you could run windows in vbox for certain apps
<DamegedSpy> I want to avoid emulators. I was thinking more a double boot.
<DamegedSpy> Anyways, I need help with the following:
<DamegedSpy> 1)Network Users and avoid modifications or cracks to the OS.
<DamegedSpy> 2)For some reson they want no single application to be downloaded install(Maybe becouse of virus)
<DamegedSpy> So if someone can help me in any of those I will thank you a lot.
<Ahmuck> i'd like to connect from the office to the computer lab (printign) and print on the computer labs printers
<Ahmuck> i know the ip address, is there a way to turn on ipp printing?
<DamegedSpy> HAve you tried typing it to a web browser(Sometimes they show a configuration page)
<fasthans> hi everyone
<Ahmuck> hi fasthans
<fasthans> Friday I asked my 15 students to start gimp and it started rela slow. does anyone have experience of running gimp in the chroot environment?
<Ahmuck> using ltsp server?
<fasthans> yes. ltsp.
<Ahmuck> alkisg: is ur man.  what type of network do you have?
<fasthans> gb switch and 100mb clients
<fasthans> hi alkisg
<alkisg> Hi fasthans
<fasthans> should I rather ask this in #ltsp?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: could you tell him the benchmarking method I told you the other day?
<alkisg> (I'm in the middle of something...)
<alkisg> ...and the flow control link?
<Ahmuck> um, if i remember it
<Ahmuck> fasthans, essentially you need to check your switch, make sure flow control is off
<fasthans> how do I do that?
<Ahmuck> then you set each client into test mode with some command, server/client and it'll tell you the throughput
<fasthans> its attached to the wall and makes a lot of noise. I think it's a D-Link switch
<Ahmuck> do you have a way to access your switch via a web interface?
<fasthans> I have no idea.
<Ahmuck> r u the admin?
<Ahmuck> whats the ip address of the switch?
<fasthans> no. and the teacher who does has no clue.
<fasthans> I am simply hooking up to the existing windows network of the school. and using the computers as clients.
<Ahmuck> heh, u might be out of luck
<Ahmuck> search google for angryip
<fasthans> maybe I bring my own switch and see it the switch is a problem.
<Ahmuck> it's a good fast program that may help you find the ip address
<Ahmuck> do you have the server in your room?
<fasthans> I cheked memory and cpu usage and it looks ok
<Ahmuck> that is one option, sever the server from the rest of the network, and then use a switch with flow control turned off
<fasthans> yes the server is in the classroom. so is the switch (mounted at the wall below a table.
 * Ahmuck was going to write in the wiki how to test
<fasthans> there is not too much I can do, because I can not touch the existing windows setup...
<fasthans> :'(
<fasthans> especially multimedia makes trouble - its simply too slow e.g. when the kids play games over the web.
<Ahmuck> how does the exisiting windows setup factor in?
<Ahmuck> sounds like you have the same problem i do
<fasthans> ok. the school only had windows when I started.
<fasthans> I show the head of school edubuntu using a laptop as the server and two of the clients of the classroom.
<fasthans> he allowed me to use the computer room but with the prerequisite not to change anything.
<fasthans> so the only thing I changed was the boot sequence to have the computers boot via the network first.
<Ahmuck> ok, but you can still search for the ip address
<fasthans> what I do before the lesson is to crawl under the table (don't lough please) and take out one kabel from the switch
<Ahmuck> if the switch will respond to a ping, which it should, you should be able to locate it
<Ahmuck> once located connect to the web interface
<Ahmuck> and look, dont' change
<fasthans> then I connect the edubuntu/ltsp server and boot the clients
<fasthans> excuse me but the switch has its own ip?
<fasthans> how do I get it?
<Ahmuck> your going to need to locate the ip using an ip scanner
<alkisg> fasthans: do you have LDM_DIRECTX=true?
<fasthans> ok. I can do that
<DamegedSpy> Angry-IP <---
<alkisg> fasthans: also, check the CPU on the clients
<fasthans> what should I CHECK
<alkisg> fasthans: and, try to disable flow control on the server: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
<fasthans> yes I have LDX_DIRECTX=true
<fasthans> the clients boot quite fast and work well, by the way
<alkisg> What are the clients specs? CPU/RAM?
<fasthans> they are 512 pentium 4 clients I think (haven't looked for a long time)
<fasthans> 512mb
<alkisg> Yeah, do put localapps on them
<alkisg> firefox + flash at least
<fasthans> I had problems with firefox. it would not connect to the internet, so I removed it.
<fasthans> using epiphany
<alkisg> OK, but you could also fix firefox, if you wanted...
<fasthans> I also have the schools windows proxy in front of me which makes life more difficult.
<fasthans> I tried fixing firefox and it would not work. and I have limited time I can be in school.
<fasthans> tks for the flow control link. I will try it
<alkisg> fasthans: you can set the proxy for all users with gconf mandatory settings
<alkisg> (and for all browsers that respect the gnome settings)
<fasthans> I went another way. tks.
<fasthans> I am using squid as transparent proxy and dansguardian
<alkisg> How did you force squid to be a transparent proxy?
<alkisg> Did you set it as the gateway for the clients?
<fasthans> no by using iptables
<alkisg> ok
<fasthans> I found a very good article.
<alkisg> fasthans: it'd be nice if you wrote a wiki page for that
<fasthans> that article made everything clear to me. you want the link?
<alkisg> Sure
<fasthans> hang on... have to dig...
<fasthans> her it is: http://www.zephyrsoft.net/filter and the download the pdf on that page
<alkisg> Thanks!
<fasthans> I have another question though - to localapps
<fasthans> I have my clients running a localapp. say GIMP or TuxPaint. how do I setup access to the users home folder and printing. these two would be the most important ones for me
<alkisg> The user home folder is automatically mounted with sshfs
<alkisg> For printing, I've heard of easy solutions, but I don't remember them because I don't need them. Maybe you should ask this one in #ltsp
<fasthans> ok tks.
<fasthans> so in general the home folder is also available to any localapp I install?
<alkisg> Not the whole /home, but $HOME, yes
<alkisg> (i.e. only the user folder)
<fasthans> aha. meaning your own home, right? what if I want to add another folder - lets say one to share between multiple users.
<fasthans> do I manually have to mount them from the chroot env?
<alkisg> Then you need karmic, they supported that in the latest ltsp :)
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/375284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375284 in ltsp "Add "-o follow_symlinks" to localapps sshfs?" [Low,Fix committed]
<fasthans> I will try to test that if I find the time.
<alkisg> No, you don't need to manually do any mounting...
<alkisg> brb
<fasthans> icecream said my daughter.... I can no resist....
<Ahmuck> i'd like to connect to a printer on the ltsp server via ipp
<Ahmuck> however i don't know a thing about ipp in linux
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: A printer on a thin client?
<Ahmuck> nope, on server
<Ahmuck> i know the server's ip address
<Ahmuck> the printer is shared
#edubuntu 2009-10-25
<mohan_> hi
<mohan_> i've used edubuntu and gcompris and i find the format great for kids upto 6th or 7th grade
<mohan_> but for kids older than that i need more challenging questions / puzzles - is there a place where pusszles are collected or can be downloaded...
<mohan_> there's no internet access in the place and so the various mensa-type puzzles are not available to the kids
<mohan_> specifically, about finding patterns with matching shapes, squares circles, triangles, figures within figures, number patterns, alphabet patterns  etc
<mohan_> i would love to contribute some of my own puzzles too but i would like to know where and how to do so
<mohan_> well you would ask WHY and i would say - those kind of puzzles actualyl make kids sharper and keep them interested - but they are under copyright by various online sites...so i cant use them....
<mohan_> is there any CC-licensed puzzle collection out there? I've been tinerknig with this and I find no guru willing to help out ;-)
<mohan_> tinker* ing
<mohan_> someone told me to find a guru on Linux and so i am here. probably he forgot to be online when i am :-)
<mohan_> never mind, i either understand or misunderstand :-)
<alkisg> mohan_, mohan123: on weekends not many people are here :)
<alkisg> If you're interested in creating your own packages for gcompris activities and pushing them upstream, you'd better come back in this channel in weekdays
<mohan_> ok
<alkisg> Do you have any experience in packagin?
<mohan_> no
<alkisg> Better start with some reading then...
<mohan_> ok
<alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<mohan_> reading it - because you see, i lacked packaging skills for 2 years :-)
 * alkisg has started packaging about 6 months ago, and found it very very useful...
<mohan_> ok
<alkisg> I've created a repository with educational applications, and teachers here have downloaded more than 1 Terabyte off of it...
<mohan_> ok
<mohan_> any of them in mumbai, india?
<mohan_> ok gotta go now, thanks and bye :-)
<Ahmuck> i'd like to access my printers on my ltsp server
<Ahmuck> i know the ip address of the server, and the printer is shared
<Ahmuck> but i'm not sure how to hook it up
<Ahmuck> does scim work across ltsp ?
#edubuntu 2010-10-25
 * ejat pokes dinda
<ejat> r u there
<ejat> :)
#edubuntu 2010-10-26
<mssmss> Hi
<mssmss> I upgraded from 8.04LTS to 10.04 LTS and clients would not connect anymore ..
<mssmss> On ltsp-build-client --arch i386, I am getting the error :
<mssmss> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<mssmss> what am I doing wrong ?
<mssmss> Hi
<mhall119> dinda: are you going to be at UDS at all?
<dinda> mhall119: it's looking doubtful
<dinda> mhall119: just listening on the plenaries right now
<mhall119> michelle says :(
<mhall119> do you have anything prepared for your server in a box session?
<dinda> mhall119: will try to participate remotely - that is a general requirements discussion, to see what services would make sense for that product
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> if you're not there, I'll try to keep it going
<dinda> mhall119: I can't believe neither jonathan or I could be there!  :(
<mhall119> yeah, it's really a shame
<vmlintu> dinda: we've been working quite a bit on the user management and authentication side of what is listed in the "School Server in a Box" blueprint
<dinda> vmlintu: wonderful
<vmlintu> The goal was to have it all public by now, but production setup took longer than expected. The user management side is available here, though: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users
<dinda> vmlintu: I was trying to find more info on what OLPC has in their School server stack
<vmlintu> We are also LDAP+kerberos setup tools here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
<vmlintu> Device management will be there too really soon
<dinda> "LDAP, samba and kerberos"  awesome, all three and some of the most asked for
<vmlintu> dinda: what kind of setup does OLPC have?
<dinda> vmlintu: I didn't really find any specs at all, they list it on their wiki but that's about it
<vmlintu> dinda: Puavo is now in production use and it seems to work nicely in our environments. We have ltsp thin clients and fat clients + laptops + windows machines using the same setup. It's all kerberized too..
<vmlintu> We'll be next adding web authentication to the stack next, so after that it should be able to support most of the items listed in the blueprint
<vmlintu> dinda: are you aiming the blueprint to be more of a school management system or a user management system?
<dinda> vmlintu: both at the moment but more of an emphasis on schools. . .it would be ideal to have a $300- $400 device that could ship as a plug-n-play solution for small schools
<dinda> vmlintu: and those with little or no bandwidth
<vmlintu> dinda: the box would be a separate box with no other functions in it?
<dinda> vmlintu: at this stage, I see it as a stand alone box
<dinda> vmlintu: but that's what the blueprint is for to discuss all the possibilities
<vmlintu> dinda: the concept is certainly something I've never thought myself - we are ourselves relying on always-on good connections everywhere
<dinda> vmlintu: :) yes but the reality is that the majority of the world is still very bandwidth poor and schools even moreso
<dinda> vmlintu: you should have heard the flak we got for removing the modem dial-up software in recent releases
<vmlintu> dinda: scary.. I cannot remember last time I saw a modem..
<vmlintu> dinda: Puavo should run fine in a stand-alone box too, just have never tried it like that.
<vmlintu> I really need to find time to cleanup the code and get the website up for it..
<highvoltage> hey dinda, long time no talk!
<highvoltage> dinda: my US visa got approved today, and I should get it tomorrow, I'm still undecided whether it's worth while going over for 2 days
<highvoltage> dinda: but the LTSP BTS also starts on Friday and mgariepy would drive for 8 hours alone if I didn't leave on Thursday so I decidede to just do that
<vmlintu> highvoltage: big plans for BTS?
<dinda> highvoltage: congrats!  I'm still uncertain - getting very tempted to hop on a plane wednesday night for last 2 days as well
<highvoltage> vmlintu: nothing earth-shaking :)
<dinda> highvoltage: who else from Revolution Linux is there?
#edubuntu 2010-10-27
<dinda> hi folks! I'm listening
<vmlintu> hi
<vmlintu> what do you want to hear?
#edubuntu 2010-10-28
<sdbinwiiexe> Does edubuntu have LTS releases like ubuntu?
<sdbinwiiexe> Or are all releases treated like LTS?
<alkisg> Good morning
<Uraken> Hello all
<Uraken> hello has anyone got a moment to answer a noob question?
<Uraken> is there a good dvd ripping program for edubuntu? i want to back up my kids dvds to hdd (maybe as isos)
<stgraber> probably
<stgraber> hang on a sec, looking for one
<stgraber> "dvdrip" should do the trick for you. I can easily be found in the Software Center
<Uraken> brilliant thanks mate really appreciate your help
<stgraber> or just search for "dvd rip" in the Software Center for other alternatives
<stgraber> you're welcome
<highvoltage> stgraber: hey
#edubuntu 2010-10-29
<TheProf> Hello. Just installed edubuntu. Was using Fedora so the sudo vs. root is different for me.  Where do all the root / service emails get sent to?
<lucian> hy
<TheProf> Hello.  I hope everyone is well.  Just installed 10.04 -- what is the correct way to modify all users' accounts system wide -- specifically to move the max/min/close buttons from the left to right of the title bar? I can see how to do it for one user only but not everyone.
<mgariepy> TheProf, you can open gconf-editor, go to the /apps/metacity/general/button_layout
<mgariepy> change it to your liking and then you can right-click and select : Set As Default
<TheProf> mgariepy,  Great - thank you for the information.  Will setting it as default only affect newly created users or existing users only?
<mgariepy> TheProf, default will be used for all user that haven't changed this particular setting yet.
<TheProf> mgariepy, Awesome. thank you
<mgariepy> you're welcome
<TheProf> mgariepy, could I ask another question please: does Edubuntu have root email messages sent from services, etc?  things like partition empty space, failed logins, etc? i already changed /etc/aliases and ran newaliases but I see nothing
<mgariepy> TheProf, i don't think so, but i'm not 100% sure.
<TheProf> OK - i'm used to getting some sort of system email but not getting anything
#edubuntu 2010-10-30
<mssmss> Hi
<mssmss> Can anyone help with a failed ltsp-build-client ?
<mssmss> upgraded 8.04lts to 10.04 lts and clients would not connect anymore ...
<mssmss> ltsp build clients gives : I: Base system installed successfully. and then  error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<mssmss> What could be wrong ?
#edubuntu 2010-10-31
<nothingman>   hey, scott
<nothingman> hey, stephane
<stgraber> hey nothingman
<szpieg> hi all
<szpieg> ubuntu n00b here
<szpieg> could use some advice using wifi radar
<alkisg> Good morning
<Uraken> hello all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mgariepy> morning sbalneav
<highvoltage> hellooo
#edubuntu 2011-10-24
<scott-work> hi, i'm project lead for ubuntu studio and i wanted to ask a few questions about how edubuntu implemented the user package selection during installation
<scott-work> is this the correct place to do this?  or is there somewhere else or someone else i should speak to?
<scott-work_> hello stgraber, are you familiar with the patched ubiquity for user selection components during edubuntu installation?
<stgraber> scott-work_: user selection components? do you mean the fine grained package selection?
<scott-work_> stgraber: aye!  that i do
 * scott-work_ apologizes, he doesn't always talk like a pirate or in third person
<stgraber> so yeah, as the author of that code, I'm fairly familiar with it :)
<scott-work_> i am the project lead for ubuntu studio and we are considering using the same methodology , would you be able to give tips for implementation?
<stgraber> if you already have properly split meta packages and use Recommends for most of your packages (instead of Depends), copy/pasting our plugin into ubiquity and changing the few lines at the top of the code should do the trick
<stgraber> IIRC there are a few lines in the code that basically set what's your main meta package and a blacklist
<stgraber> you'll want to update that part, most of the rest should just work
<scott-work_> okay, that is good :)  shnatsel had already researched some of this and was aware of most of that
<scott-work_> that's awesome
<scott-work_> i was really worried that there would be the one hidden pitfall that would make this exceedingly difficult
<stgraber> nope. I guess once you've tested it and started using it we should do something to have it in common somehow to avoid maintaing it twice
<stgraber> although the code doesn't change much, I still have a few bugfixes to do for 12.04, mostly to do with the plugin crashing when some strings contain utf8...
<fosburg> where do you get type1 fonts (like helvetica) that can be installed on linux os
#edubuntu 2011-10-25
<Boogerhead> Hello! I got the 11.10 ISO yesterday, and get a "no configuration file found" message when I try to boot. And .. I don't see a cfg file, image isn't in the root
<Boogerhead> Is it me or the new ISO that's doing something wrong here? =)
<nubae> latest daily build works for me
<Boogerhead> nubae, thanks ... guess I'll go looking for that somewhere
<Boogerhead> ... and I just tried it a fourth time, and it started working. #@*(& ... thanks ..
#edubuntu 2011-10-27
<barco> I need some help with Installing Epoptes on Ltsp Chroot. It seems to be an issue with ubuntu keyserver being down
<alkisg> barco: what's the error output? the keyserver seems to work here...
<barco> gpg: keyserver timed out
<barco> gpg: keyserver receive failed: keyserver error
<alkisg> barco: ping keyserver.ubuntu.com
<alkisg> Maybe you don't have a correct resolv.conf in your chroot
<barco> I think you're right. Let me check that...
<barco> Thanx, that was the problem. I don't use internet on the clients so never noticed the issue.
<alkisg> Cool, let us know if you like epoptes etc
<barco> Will do, I'm trying it out right after I update the NBD Image.
<barco> It's snappy! I like the fact that it can broadcast to a client before log-in!
<alkisg> Yeah some times we only want to broadcast something for 1 hour without the students even logging in, so we thought to implement it this way :)
<barco> And here I've been logging in to workstations to broadcast. So much more work. Epoptes is also a lot more responsive than Italc when broadcasting. Looks like it updates several times per second without bogging down the network.
<barco> Used to have 1second interval updates on Italc. That translates to 2-3 second lag with 6clients! Thanx for all your effort and work on this project!!
#edubuntu 2011-10-28
<sonny> un problema con java en ubuntu 10.10
<sonny> alguien podria ayudarme?
<sonny> Exception in thread "main" java.awt.HeadlessException
<sonny> 	at java.awt.GraphicsEnvironment.checkHeadless(GraphicsEnvironment.java:173)
<sonny> 	at java.awt.Window.<init>(Window.java:437)
<sonny> 	at java.awt.Frame.<init>(Frame.java:419)
<sonny> 	at GuiSplash.<init>(GuiSplash.java:28)
<sonny> 	at Main.main(Main.java:33)
#edubuntu 2012-10-22
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm done with the redesign of the package selection step. Next up is the installation type one (desktop, ltsp, server) then I'll have the fun one... the authentication step ;)
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> stgraber: didn't there used to be a place where I can edit the contact form page content on http://edubuntu.org/admin/structure/contact/edit/1 ?
<highvoltage> I can't seem to find where we used to enter things like "Don't use this for support" or "Sorry, we really really can't post you discs"
<highvoltage> stgraber: I got my passport/visa back today, so at least that's not a problem
<stgraber> highvoltage: good
<highvoltage> stgraber: have you settled on flask or is that pretty much still up in the air?
<stgraber> highvoltage: pretty likely to be flask, that's what I've been using so far (though the code isn't really flask specific)
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool. I'm looking for a nice way to authenticate a flask app against samba4, so I'm (not so) secretly hoping that you'll be doing that for edubuntu to so that I could "steal" it :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, that part I already have, including changing password, it's everything else I don't have ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: oh awesome!
<stgraber> highvoltage: code is in lp:~edubuntu-dev/edubuntu/edubuntu-server
<stgraber> highvoltage: needs python-flask and python-ldap
<stgraber> highvoltage: just replace the domain name and DN in access.py (hardcoded for now in the header)
<highvoltage> cool :D
<highvoltage> "Now on revision 67." heh, I think before I pulled I was still on revision 2, you've been busy :)
<stgraber> yeah, took a few revisions to get something that works
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice. there's nothing in that code that I don't understand. I guess having played with python3-lxc helped :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think in the deployments confirmation mail, perhaps the confirm link should be higher up, or perhaps it should say in the first line that they need to click that link to confirm
<highvoltage> stgraber: because the mail itself almost looks like a confirmation mail that the details have been received and I can see how many people won't read it until the end
<highvoltage> stgraber: I just looked at the rejection mail too and it might be nice if it mentioned that a reason for rejection could be because the submission wasn't confirmed
<highvoltage> (it looks a bit short-off)
<stgraber> highvoltage: you know that you have commit rights to that branch right? :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: the email templates are at the end of deployments.module
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, cool!
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://www.stgraber.org/download/edubuntu-step-1.png http://www.stgraber.org/download/edubuntu-step-3.png
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice!
<highvoltage> stgraber: so if you choose server, will you get server package options on the software selection screen?
<stgraber> yeah, you'll get a different screen to choose the roles, that'll be step-4 (and step-3 will just be hidden on servers)
<stgraber> I still need to implement step-2 which is the standalone/join-a-domain/create-a-domain one
<highvoltage> well, it's already really nice
<stgraber> I'm hoping to get step-2 and step-4 implemented tomorrow evening so we can get that stuff uploaded when the archive opens
<stgraber> obviously step-1 changes depending on what .squashfs you have on the media and will be skipped entirely if you only have one
<stgraber> (so our arm image won't show that step)
#edubuntu 2012-10-23
<JoseeAntonioR> hey guys! I'd like to know if any of you is interested in running a 25 or 30 mins session at OpenWeek, on Wednesday 17 UTC, about Edubuntu
<highvoltage> stgraber: so we have an edubuntu slot for openweek tomorrow at 17:00 UTC
<highvoltage> stgraber: I should be able to take care of it mostly since it's just half an hour, but if you happen to be available around that time it would be nice if you could join, I'm announcing on the edubuntu site too
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think we should take some time to talk about branding too
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think Edubuntu Server needs a better name, it needs another word, maybe "Edubuntu Infrastructure Server" or something (except that it would help having something more catchy that implies the same)
<highvoltage> stgraber: when you have a chance, could you give it a proof-read? http://edubuntu.org/2012-10-23/ubuntu-open-week
<highvoltage> hmm, I had to temporarily disable the slideshow on the site too since my last css changes seems to have gone lost somehow
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm going to publish so long, but edit at will if you think something should change
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, 17:00 UTC makes it 19:00 local time here so I may still be out for dinner, we'll see
<stgraber> highvoltage: blog post looks good
<highvoltage> stgraber: could you perhaps fire off a manual sync for the theme-edubuntu branch on humboldt?
<stgraber> highvoltage: done
<highvoltage> merci
<highvoltage> stgraber: does the auto-sync happen every half an hour or hour?
<stgraber> hour at the moment because of the load on humboldt
<stgraber> the full sync takes almost 5min, so running it every half hour was a bit excesive
<highvoltage> ouch, indeed. why so long?
<stgraber> many branches and checksuming of the files
<stgraber> humboldt is pretty slow for anything I/O related
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, so the new code should now be working fine for workstation and ltsp installs, "just" need the code to deal with server installs now
<highvoltage> cool
#edubuntu 2012-10-24
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104492301562638456962/posts/AAF63DRYQZ4
<highvoltage> nice
<Kryppi> Yo!
<Kryppi> This nerd here managed to delete his Java! :)
<Kryppi> ..Help? :<
<highvoltage> Kryppi: ah nice!
<Kryppi> highvoltage, Totally! I wanted to set up a programming environment for Java, so I deleted it with sudo apt-get purge openjdk-\*
<Kryppi> Followed this guide: http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Oracle-Java-on-Ubuntu-Linux
<highvoltage> Kryppi: yeah I guess they want you to remove the free java from your system first before installing the non-free one (not that that is even necessary since you can select your default java system when you have more than one installed)
<stgraber> Kryppi: just re-install icedtea-6-plugin that should pull the rest of the java packages back on your system
<stgraber> assuming you didn't somehow destroy more things in the process, it should work fine ;)
<Kryppi> stgraber Will that be enough for me?
<highvoltage> oh wow, we have a veloutin and a simpoir in here
 * highvoltage didn't realise
<stgraber> Kryppi: well, you'll have java back on your system after that
<stgraber> then if you want to develop, you'll probably want to install eclipse or something like that, but I'm not a java developer (and never plan to be) so can't really help much there ;)
 * veloutin sets mode +insight highvoltage 
<highvoltage> I wish I could really have a flag like that today :)
<Kryppi> stgraber, okay, thanks. but I do want Eclipse, too - yeah.
<stgraber> Kryppi: "apt-get install eclipse" or installing it from the software-center should do the trick
<Kryppi> stgraber yeah, I'm at it. :)
<stgraber> eclipse would also have pulled java back on your system at install time btw
<highvoltage> stgraber: so there will be a slot for derivatives again at UDS, Jorge asked if we want in and I said yes
<highvoltage> stgraber: so perhaps we could do the tasks session, the decent-length roadmap session (with the server parts) and then the plenary mini-summary
<stgraber> highvoltage: good that we have a bit of a plenary slot. Currently we have our generic work-for-raring session and the server informational session scheduled on Monday and Friday respectively
<stgraber> I don't have scheduling rights this time around so they may end up jumping around a bit
<stgraber> highvoltage: anyway, the plenary session will be good to mention the things I blogged about basically, I don't think we'll have much more time than that
<highvoltage> yeah, I guess we'll have 2.5 mins again, so it's just enough for a teaser and a few screenshots
<highvoltage> which is ok
<stgraber> and if the server session stays on friday, then we can tell whoever's interested to show up there
<highvoltage> ah, plenary slot has been upgraded to 7.5 minutes :)
<stgraber> oh nice we may even be able to say something then ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: with 7.5min I may even be able to get a basic demo with an edubuntu server, a win8 client and an edubuntu desktop client
<stgraber> not enough time to show the bring up of everything, but definitely enough to start the server, show the services running, boot win8 and edubuntu, show that they can login and show the output of "id" to show it's in the domain and resolves all the groups
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice. also, I think we need a better name for "Edubuntu Server"
<veloutin> Edubuntu Organization Server
<stgraber> if you have suggestions, I'm happy to hear them but for now Edubuntu Server is at least generic enough that can I fit whatever I want in there without renaming ;)
<veloutin> boom, fancy schmancy
 * highvoltage will try to think of something that implies Edubuntu Infrastructure Server but that sounds less iffy
<highvoltage> if it was just doing samba I would go with Edubuntu Directory Server (but maybe we'd get sued by someone :p)
<stgraber> hehe, yeah, getting a good name is tricky because it's completely modular so it won't always contain a directory, sometimes it'll just be a file server, sometimes just an ltsp cluster, ...
<simpoir> Edubuntu Cloud Server :D
<highvoltage> (EDS actually does have a nice ring to it, and calling something an ED server is also nice)
<veloutin> eDirectory?
<highvoltage> ah yes
<highvoltage> that exists right?
<stgraber> highvoltage: eds == evolution data server
<highvoltage> heh, looking at synonyms for "infrastructure". there's "principal" :)
<veloutin> Edubuntu Principal's Office
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> "Edubuntu Foundations Server" could be accurate too, but it's longwinded
<stgraber> yeah and the user won't have a clue what that's about
<highvoltage> then maybe just go with something that's very descriptive. "Edubuntu Infrastructure Server"
<highvoltage> even though it's longwinded, at least it's accurate and to the point
<highvoltage> I just think that going with just "Server" at this stage might be confusing since there will already be two kinds of Edubuntu servers and that could grow to 3-4 in the future
<stgraber> well, I'm not sure that if I was to deploy just the web hosting part of Edubuntu Server (as you'll be able to), this should still be called "Edubuntu Infrastructure Server"
<highvoltage> I think it could, the web parts could be a subset, just like the samba part could be a subset (but I get your point)
<stgraber> also, what do you mean with 3-4 servers in the future?
<highvoltage> hmm. unless we add something to the end of "Edubuntu Server", like "Edubuntu Server Platform"
<highvoltage> (but then it's kind of inconsistent with "Edubuntu Terminal Server")
<highvoltage> stgraber: well, forget I said that part (since they'd be subsets of Edubuntu Server)
<highvoltage> (I might be just thinking aloud here, but...)
<highvoltage> So Edubuntu Server is more of a generic thing with a subset of servers, which would typically include these capabilities that would run in containers:
<highvoltage>  * Samba4 directory server
<highvoltage>  * Web hosting platform using Juju with Wordpress/Drupal/etc recipies
<highvoltage> it's like a meta-server in that it isn't actually a server in itself.
 * highvoltage is too tired to think of branding stuff right now and spontaneously gives up for now
<simpoir> so it would fit more to call it the Edubuntu Modular Platform
<highvoltage> simpoir: that's actually very nice! (for people who would know what that means)
<veloutin> Legos!
#edubuntu 2012-10-26
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104492301562638456962/posts/Lt5BrNyXARb
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's all very awesome (especially the server software selection screen!)
<stgraber> highvoltage: and now the domain joining script: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1308318/
#edubuntu 2013-10-21
<highvoltage> stgraber: nice!
<reactor> Oh hi.
<reactor> Is there a way to figure out the repositories server without downloading the image?
<reactor> Alright then.
#edubuntu 2013-10-27
<Guest40673> Is the edubuntu-desktop-kde package available for Kubuntu 13.10?
#edubuntu 2014-10-21
<RSchilder> Is there someone who can help me? I'm trying to compile to PHp 4.5.33 in Ubuntu 14.04. Everything works till make-intall then I got the error: I got the error: cp: cannot stat 'sapi/cli/php.1' : No such file or directory. Make: *** [install-cli] error 1
#edubuntu 2014-10-24
<TheProf> Good day.  I hope you are doing well.  I have a clean installation of Edubuntu 14.04, and the thin clients time out trying to tftpboot.  Typing each time sudo service tftpd-hpa restart fixes it perfectly.  What is the permanant solution please?
#edubuntu 2014-10-26
<Rope--> hello, just little question, is there a way to install edubuntu with XFCE?
#edubuntu 2015-10-20
<sandeepkr> Hi group
#edubuntu 2016-10-24
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [amd64] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [s390x] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [i386] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [armhf] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.22.1-2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2016-10-25
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.0.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.4.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-10-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.4.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.4.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-10-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-shell (xenial-proposed/universe) [3.18.5-0ubuntu0.1 => 3.18.5-0ubuntu0.2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, mozilla, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-shell (yakkety-proposed/universe) [3.20.4-0ubuntu1 => 3.20.4-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, mozilla, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2017-10-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1 => 17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-10-25
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-18-gd4f70470-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: sphinx (bionic-proposed/main) [1.5.6-2 => 1.6.5-1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server) (sync)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (artful-proposed/main) [2.0.7-0ubuntu5 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: calibre (bionic-proposed/universe) [3.7.0+dfsg-2 => 3.7.0+dfsg-2build1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:10.1.10-3 => 2:10.1.10-3build1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-10-27
<Jordan_U> Any recommendations for software for a school bell system? Just needs to play sounds (our school's PA system is connected to the computer) at the right times, and be configurable by less tech savvy people (so cron + mplayer is not a usable solution).
#edubuntu 2019-10-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-gevent (focal-proposed/universe) [1.3.7-1build2 => 1.3.7-1ubuntu1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2019-10-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: python-mechanize [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:0.4.3-2] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: python-mechanize [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:0.4.3-2] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
